# COLUMBINE by Dave Cullen



## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm happy to find this site. I have been discussing ebooks on my blog for years, but mostly with non ereaders, and the conversations couldn't go too deep. I'm really looking forward to hearing what you all have to say.

I made my reputation as a journalist online and did all the early work on my book there (Salon and then Slate), so the online thing comes naturally, and I've been eagerly watching and wondering where it will take us for a long time.

I also started my book COLUMBINE as a 50-75 page ebook for Random House's now-defunct ebook imprint AtRandom in 2000. (I spent about three years on it, and it just wasn't ready. Neither was the ebook market. Random House shut down the imprint shortly after 9/11.)

Salon issued an ebook of a gays in the military piece I did that same year. That failed to make an impression, though.

But all that was early, and things finally began to take off a few years ago, and are really big now. My book had an inordinate share of ebooks for some reason--about 10% of my sales in 2009. I figured that was because I have a young demographic, or maybe because I have an online presence, though I'm not entirely sure.

---

Sorry if that was too much prelude. I'm excited about the possibilities, but somewhat trepidatious, too--about how we'll earn a living, and how books may change. I'm conflicted on how much they will. (Most of the changes will be for the better, hopefully.)

Do you guys hope to see books change in any fundamental ways--or just want the same books, in a convenient format?

I'm also eager to hear what you want from authors in general, or books like mine in particular, or what bugs you, or what you want to know. I hope you'll ask or comment away.

Thanks.

---

Now let's see if I can get the codes right to display my book and trailer. (I hope it's not too tacky to use the book pic from my website, with the awards tacked on. I must still have it online somewhere without):








Columbine​
Columbine Teacher's Guide

Columbine Online (for digging in to the info or research)


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> I'm curious whether most of you guys hope to see books change in any fundamental ways--or just want the same books, in a convenient format.


Welcome to KB Dave, I have your book, unfortunately it's on my Kindle's extensive To-Be-Read (TBR) list. As to your question above, I just want the same books I've always read, in electronic form and well-formatted.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Dave--

Welcome to KindleBoards! Your book was one of the very first I bought for my Kindle, and is on my To Be Read list. I may have to move it up the line now. 

(We like to put a copy of the "welcome letter" in each book thread. It doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, it just helps us know that you know the rules.)

A brief recap of our rules follows:

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## ak rain (Nov 15, 2008)

in responce to "Do you guys hope to see books change in any fundamental ways--or just want the same books, in a convenient format?"


I want the ebook the the same as the dtb just the way its delivered is different. 

I would consider something different in a different way which I might want or not. I hope that is understood. 

I like reading books on my kindle.
sylvia


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## Samantha (Jul 16, 2010)

Can I take this opportunity to gush over Columbine (the book)? I read it in February - actually I was in the hospital when I read it   - and thought it was really well-done. I highly, highly recommend it. 

It's not very often I come across the author of a book I've read on a board I'm on.


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## Groggy1 (Jun 21, 2010)

HI! Not sure what you mean when you say "books may change" delivery devise might - but words are words,... 

(Yes i am a bit of a smart


Spoiler



ass


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Hey, what a nice reception. And fast. Thanks, Jeff, Jason and Betsy

And I appreciate you posting the rules there. That saves me having to go find them. haha. (But seriously. I did find the overall forum rules, but not ones particular to authors. It helps.)

I'm really happy that my book preceded me--I like the way you put that. I knew there were a lot of Kindlers out there buying it, just didn't know how to find you. Thanks. And sorry if that's the wrong term. (Feel free to connect me on any lingo, although I REALLY don't want to add that stupid hyphen to ebook, but I can be persuaded.)

I finally found a site that reports actual daily Amazon figures (at least it claims to), and my book is consistently ranked about twice as high on the Kindle chart vs the paper chart, and I'm selling slightly more e copies than paper at Amazon (both right around 100 so far in Sept, if you add hard and soft paper together).

Most of my writer friends are completely unaware of the great big bulldozer about to change our industry, and I think they're nuts. I watched a similar story ten years ago as a journalist. Hopefully, this one will turn out better. I think it will, mostly.

I feel kind of late to the game here, but in the grand scheme, I guess it's early.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I just wanted to welcome you to KindleBoards and tell you that I loved your book.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Samantha said:


> Can I take this opportunity to gush over Columbine (the book)? I read it in February - actually I was in the hospital when I read it  - and thought it was really well-done. I highly, highly recommend it.


Please do! As often as possible. Haha.

Seriously, what a nice outpouring to come to. (Several of you posted while I was blabbing my way through creating the last post.)

Sorry you landed in the hospital. I hope it wasn't too disturbing to read there. I got some of my best reading done in a hospital, though. I broke my back way back in 2003, and spent about six months in Walter Reed. I kind of rekindled my love of reading during that time.

(Unfortunately, also of soaps. Haha. I was bedridden for the first month, and books got too heavy to hold up, so I spent a lot of time staring at TV. And those things are addictive! haha.)


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Groggy1 said:


> HI! Not sure what you mean when you say "books may change" delivery devise might - but words are words,...
> 
> (Yes i am a bit of a smart
> 
> ...


Well, I hope you're right. I mostly hope that, though I'm never sure what we have yet to imagine.

But let me throw something at you. I got this twitter today, citing me in a blog post called "Why aren't more publishers creating Vooks?"

http://nowsharethisblog.com/2010/09/13/why-arent-more-publishers-creating-vooks/

I guess the v is for visual or video--he's arguing for embedding all sorts of material inside the text of ebooks, including social media. Here's the bit on me:



> Here's why each of the three books mentioned above is a natural for becoming a Vook:
> 
> * Cullen's "Columbine" is the definitive account of the 1999 school shooting that transfixed the nation. Who can forget the images that played out on live TV and in newspapers during the days that followed? Assuming his publisher could get copyright permission, Cullen's book could take on an entirely new life by mixing in the real-life news footage, images and other visuals that made this such an unforgettable event. I found myself going online anyway to supplement the book with photos and videos of the event itself and the main participants. Cullen does some of this on his author Web site already, so why not integrate it into a Vook as well? Survivor interviews? Cullen on camera talking about the years he put into researching the book, showing the documents and journal entires and other evidence he pored over?


My initial response was a mixture between "hmmmm" and "yuck." I hate to dismiss these things too soon. Ten or twenty years from now, we might be looking at a different, richer (or poorer) experience in books, and I'd hate to think I squeezed my eyes closed and pouted and missed the boat.

Especially since:
1) As he suggested, I already pulled together much of that material on my website for my readers. So why not save them a step (and/or let them know I'd done the legwork for them) by putting it in the book,
and
2) I'd read an earlier industry piece about embedding stuff like that in the back of the book as special features, and I'd actually posted on Twitter that I'd love my publisher to do that. (Knowing that the people at my imprint read all my twits (no, I won't say tweets. haha.)

(Incidentally, I believer Rebecca Skloot twittered the very same day, saying she'd like her publisher to do it with her book, which is quite the phenom.)

Here's the difference, in my mind, though:

- part of the story
vs.
- external to the story.

Having it available on my website, or in the back of the book, still feels external to me. You may want to reference it as you go, and that's fine, but it FEELS like something separate from the story, which you're doing on your own. (The same way I was adamant that my book have extensive Endnote, but that they be in the back, without numbers inserted into the main text. Every reader could choose to read them as they went, at the end, or not at all, but they would be separate, and not interrupting.)

I hope this doesn't seem like a trivial distinction to some people, because it's vitally important to me. I set out to write a book that would be all true, but would read like a novel. I wanted it to be that same immersive experience as a good novel, where you get lost in that world.

Since it's not a novel, I'm not sure I have the right word to describe it other than "the story" but I wanted there to be a distinct "Columbine, the story" that they absorbed and experienced reading the book--distinct from all the rest of their interaction with "Columbine the event" before and after in their life.

In the early days of ebooks and the web, we were told there would be whole new art forms of interactive media. (When I was in grad school from '94-98 (a two-year program, BTW, hahaha), one prof and some of his acolytes were all over it as The Big Coming Thing. I didn't buy it then, and I still don't. It hasn't materialized, but perhaps the platforms are only now developing to support it.

I continue to hesitate to keep typing, for fear of branding myself as a Luddite (these words will still be here years from now), but I guess this is my take for now:

If someone wants to actually develop those art forms, I wish them well. And I may even join them at some point. But I also think that human beings have been natural born storytellers since before we created the alphabets to record them. We love telling stories. And we love being TOLD great stories. And while there have always been versions of improv in all sorts of creative fields, I don't think most readers want to be tasked with helping create the story. I think they want to be free to flip to google or wikipedia to learn more, but they want The Story to stand on its own.

I might be holding the line a little too cautiously, though, fearing phantoms that will never materialize. In journalism, we have found a really great middle ground: a handful of links in a story, which don't intrude upon the story. Maybe an occasional link in the book would be fine.

If that feels a bit muddled, it's because I haven't fully worked out what I think. And I've been thinking about it since those grad school days in 1994. In the end, I don't think I'll have a useful opinion, until I see someone do it really well. I hope I'll know it when I see it.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

DaveCullen said:


> I hope this doesn't seem like a trivial distinction to some people, because it's vitally important to me. I set out to write a book that would be all true, but would read like a novel. I wanted it to be that same immersive experience as a good novel, where you get lost in that world.
> 
> Since it's not a novel, I'm not sure I have the right word to describe it other than "the story" but I wanted there to be a distinct "Columbine, the story" that they absorbed and experienced reading the book--distinct from all the rest of their interaction with "Columbine the event" before and after in their life.
> 
> ...


I appreciate what you're saying here, Dave...it's the thing that bothers me about the push (not sure it's quite that strong yet) for "interactive" books. I want the writing and the story to stand on its own, not depend on added media. But then, I'm kinda old...don't know if the grandkids would feel the same way.

Betsy


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

hi and welcome! Your book definitely precedes you, I downloaded the sample after it was recommended two months in a row in our Quasi-Official Book Club Game. I look forward to reading it.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,34559.0.html


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

Out of curiosity Dave, do you have a Kindle? 

The only way that I could see enjoying multimedia integration in a book would be to insert hyperlinks that could be turned on/off as the reader chooses. Obviously, I don't think this would be very useful in fiction, but I could definitely see it in non-fiction and educational applications. Amazon recently implemented a feature called Popular Highlights (or something like that) where you can see passages that others have highlighted in their Kindle books. It underlines the passage with a dotted line. This can be turned off if you don't want the distraction. I think a brief note at the start of a book introducing this feature would be enough to make readers aware of it and provide them with a starting point to go further then just the story as it was written.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Hi, Dave: Welcome to Kindleboards!

I just finished _Columbine last week, and it was wonderful. It gripped me from the first page to the last. Disturbing, yes...of course! But thoroughly professional and well-written. It's been awhile since I've been so thoroughly absorbed in a non-fiction work. 

(And...folks might label me a Luddite, too, but I don't care. IMHO we spend enough time with moving images, sound bites, and technicolor these days. It's nice to engage the part of one's brain that invokes imagination once in a while. I can certainly see the application for texts and other nonfiction--we use videos in our classroom all the time--but I would hate to see my quiet reading time interrupted by video. When I am immersed in a good book, my brain is engaged in visualization which, if the author has done his job well, invokes all of my senses and plunges me further into the story than any passive viewing of video could do.)

regards,
--'Archer'_


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

Look at the DVD/Bluray format: there are always ton of extras on them: multiple commentaries, featurettes, trailers, games, etc. etc. etc. How many of us actually ever watch all that extra stuff? Probably very few. But it's nice to know it's there! If we have a choice between a no-frills edition and a special edition - most of us would probably go for the special edition, even if all that extra material will never be seen. It's just human nature I think.

As far as "Columbine" specifically - I must say when I got to the Endnotes...I kind of wished I was able to read them concurrently with the narrative. By the time you get to the end they really do feel _outside_ of the story you just finished reading and it's hard to connect each and every one of them with material on page 1 onwards.



Spoiler



Now, about the book itself. In the video above you mentioned Dylan and his journey to murderer: what a strange journey. And even by the end I can't say I got him. He just seems to have woken up that morning knowing he was about to kill hundreds of people simply because he didn't have any other plans that day. If the most used word in his journals was "love" and the most discussed idea was the need for love - it really doesn't jell with his actions in that school. Was he really that "brainwashed" by Eric?

Even bigger enigmas than Harris and Klebold are their parents, particularly Klebold's. Harris' father is made clear through his journals on his son. But what about his mother? And Klebold's parents - where were they during their son's journey to mass murder? Is it that they were so hands off in their parenting - is is there simply no information available because they have granted so few public interviews and always with sympathetic questioners? (Or just writing op-ed pieces for O.) Frankly, their "You just don't understand our pain and how dare you criticize us and our son without knowing anything about him" - while refusing to answer questions about their son and what might have gone wrong - is not a little...insincere. (Maybe "insincere" isn't the right word.)


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## Harry Shannon (Jul 30, 2010)

I found your book riveting and brilliantly presented, Dave. One of my favorite reads of the last couple of years. Welcome to the board.


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## mistyd107 (May 22, 2009)

Recently purchased your book and I look forward to reading it


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

DYB - I skipped over your last two paragraphs as it looked like they were spoilers. I realize it's non-fiction and the end is known, but you may want to consider putting [ spoiler] [ /spoiler] tags around those paragraphs for those of us who haven't read the book yet. =)


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## dimples (Jul 28, 2010)

How wonderful to have you here. Columbine is still on my wishlist (I need to win the jackpot so I can just buy everything without having to worry!) but I'm hoping to buy/read it soon  

You mentioned a piece you did about gays in the military, can we still find that somewhere?


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

I've had your book on my Wishlist for almost a year (since December 8th) Dave, and just one-clicked.  I'm on a nonfiction kick this month, and just finished Deepak Chopra's "Buddha" an hour ago, so you're next on my list!


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for all the posts. I'll try to respond to them all today or tonight.

It's refreshing to hear people interested in just plain reading. I'm all for my publisher doing videos like the trailer to try to grab people through other media, get them interested different ways. And supplemental material is always good. But at the end of the day, the main event of the book better be the reading. I liked this from Betsy:



> I want the writing and the story to stand on its own


That's how I feel, too. That's why I refused to put pictures in the book. I want to leave the reader open to create their own. If they want to look them up, that's fine, too.

Dimples, my gays in the military piece is the first item listed here:
http://www.davecullen.com/stories.htm

It's in two parts, so be sure to click both of them. (Some people have not noticed the second part, and thought it ended rather unresolved.)

Most of my other magazine work is there, too.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

911jason said:


> Out of curiosity Dave, do you have a Kindle?


Um, I guess it's time for my confession. No, not yet. I haven't felt I could afford one yet. I indulged in a new iphone this year, and that more than depleted my gadget budget. (Writing a bestseller doesn't pay nearly as well as most people think--or doesn't anymore. I did get out of debt, though, which I went into writing it.)

I think I may be one of those $99 threshold people. That still sounds like a lot of money to me, but at least in range. I was also frustrated by the size in the early models: not enough screen size, too much surrounding it. I've been waiting for upgrades, though the later version might be there. (I have not actually found a friend to try out the latest model.)

Oddly enough, I look forward to it for my posture. I'm reading Freedom now and it's too damn heavy. No way am I going to hold it up in front of my face. It's usually rested on the arm of the chair, with my head tilted down. I have all sorts of spinal problems, so that's tough on my neck.

I hope they keep making the kindle lighter.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Dave,

I have to say, I'm very glad you didn't put pictures in Columbine. I don't think I would have been able to read it. All of the video from the news reports kept going through my head as I read it and it was difficult enough. 

I agree with Betsy, I want the story to stand on it's own


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> Dave,
> 
> I have to say, I'm very glad you didn't put pictures in Columbine. I don't think I would have been able to read it. All of the video from the news reports kept going through my head as I read it and it was difficult enough.
> 
> I agree with Betsy, I want the story to stand on it's own


Yeah...pictures in "Columbine" would be bordering perverse.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> Um, I guess it's time for my confession. No, not yet. I haven't felt I could afford one yet. I indulged in a new iphone this year, and that more than depleted my gadget budget.


I didn't mean that question to make you feel guilty for being here, lots of people on KB don't have a Kindle. I was only asking because the 'popular highlights' feature I mentioned would make more sense if you had a Kindle and could turn that feature on to see what I was talking about.


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## brian70 (Mar 26, 2010)

Welcome to kindle boards. I am adding your book to my TBR list. Looks very interesting.



> Do you guys hope to see books change in any fundamental ways--or just want the same books, in a convenient format?


I just want to read. I'm leery of seeing changes made. Except for relevant pictures, I think almost anything that could be added would be a distraction or even a Trojan horse for advertisements. My 2 cents.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

dimples said:


> (I need to win the jackpot so I can just buy everything without having to worry!)


Me, too. And there's that other problem . . . Warren Zevon quoted someone else as saying that he loved coming out of bookstores with a big stack, but discovered that when we buy books, we believe we are buying the time to read them.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

DYB said:


> Yeah...pictures in "Columbine" would be bordering perverse.


I agree. But I get asked about it a lot, and many of the people are none too happy that I "left them out." It's a minority, for sure, but a sizable one.

I could see tasteful pictures in there--like just headshots of the main characters--but if you need a picture, I haven't done my job. (Or if you want to see the real person--like after you've watched a biopic feature film--they are easily googled.)

If they are in the book, they are basically forced onto everyone. And they are PART of the book.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for the nice welcomes from samantha, 4brats, hsuthard, archer, harry, misty, dimples and geko, who I didn't already mention. I hope I didn't miss anyone. If you're still TBR, I hope you'll come back and let us know what you think once you have.

Some open items:



DYB said:


> As far as "Columbine" specifically - I must say when I got to the Endnotes...I kind of wished I was able to read them concurrently with the narrative. By the time you get to the end they really do feel _outside_ of the story you just finished reading and it's hard to connect each and every one of them with material on page 1 onwards.
> [/spoiler]


Did you only discover I'd included Notes when you got to the end?

Do you guys think this is a Kindle-specific issue, or not? (Similar to the surprise some people have reported getting to the end of my story, when the Kindle says there is 20-something percent to go.)

When I get a paper book, I think I always flip through at some point to see if there's any extraneous stuff back there (also to know the exact final page number I'll be reading to--I'm oddly obsessive about that.) In my book, there is about 70 pages of supplemental material, so it's hard to miss if you're flipping through. Much easier to miss on a Kindle, I'd assume.

It's listed in the TOC, but I don't know about you guys, but my eyes glaze over when I read a TOC. I usually look at it, but it's so boring and pointless at that point--kind of a structure to something I have not yet encountered--that I pay little attention. I find it more useful to go back to it later, sometimes, once I'm already in the book--and then it's useful to have stumbled past it and taken note of the fact that it's there.

I especially dislike detailed TOCs that run on for a few pages, for that reason. That's why I kept mine to one, with only the five main sections listed, and then all the supplemental stuff.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm interested in reading your book too.  Around the time that it all happened, I just couldn't stand the media coverage and ignored it as much as possible.  It was all Columbine all the time.  I've read a lot of positive comments about the book here on Kindleboards (well before you arrived here this week).


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> Did you only discover I'd included Notes when you got to the end?
> 
> Do you guys think this is a Kindle-specific issue, or not? (Similar to the surprise some people have reported getting to the end of my story, when the Kindle says there is 20-something percent to go.)
> 
> When I get a paper book, I think I always flip through at some point to see if there's any extraneous stuff back there (also to know the exact final page number I'll be reading to--I'm oddly obsessive about that.) In my book, there is about 70 pages of supplemental material, so it's hard to miss if you're flipping through. Much easier to miss on a Kindle, I'd assume.


Most Kindle users don't want to skip ahead in a book, because one of the sync features is "SYNC TO FURTHEST PAGE READ"... this is especially useful for those syncing between the Kindle and another device, like the Kindle app for iPhone or Kindle for PC. If you had skimmed through to the end and looked at the notes, that's where it would sync to every time.


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

Dave, I read your book and thought it was very well written and interesting.  I want to say that I really enjoyed reading it, but somehow given the subject matter, than seems like the wrong thing to say.  

I'm somewhat embarrassed to say that I need to re-download it and check out the notes.  I guess I just got to the end of the book and deleted it, never looking to see if there was anything else.  Of course after I read the notes, I'll probably go back and read the whole book over again.  I'm also going to check out your website, it sounds like you have some good info on there.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

OK, I'm working on catching up, and happy to discuss the content.



DYB said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I agree that Dylan is the bigger mystery, by far--and at the end, it still seems somewhat incomprehensible that he actually did it. No, I don't think he was brainwashed, though. He knew what he was doing. But perhaps a (much) milder version of something along those lines. I think he was heavily influenced by Eric, to a scary degree. I don't think he would have come close to doing it without Eric's influence. 
I do think there was a change in Dylan at some point in those last 2-3 months, too. Yes, Love was the most common word in his journal, but not at the end. He was fuming with rage, which had mostly been directed at himself, but Eric helped him visualize how good it would feel to direct it outward. That is the classic scenario of angry depressives who kill: extreme anger turned inward becomes extreme anger turned outward.

Yes, the parents were my biggest challenge to depict, because they allowed virtually no contact with the press. (The Klebolds spoke to David Brooks, who wrote his column based on my Slate story, so he in turn helped me by sharing more of his conversations with them than he included in his column. He also shared his assessments of them. And then I had some people close to them--much less so with the Harrises--and various bits of documentation, like the lengthy questionaires each filled out for the diversion program, and the one-time interviews they did with the cops. (Kate Battan wrote up extensive notes on the meeting with the Klebolds, and also discussed her perceptions of them at length. She also observed both families watching the Basement Tapes and other situations, which she shared with me.) And then, as the book was almost going to press, the Klebolds agreed to fact-check some things through their attorney, and also added a few small bits. So there were odd bits and pieces that I cobbled together, but it was slim pickings.

I have a completely different take on Sue Klebold's essay in O Magazine, though. Did you read it? It's much longer than an op-ed (about 5,000 words), and I thought it was very candid, heartfelt and apologetic. The fact that they don't understand it either is not a surprise. The various cops, FBI agents and experts on murderers did not expect either family to have the answers. People who do this for a living say the families, neighbors, friends, etc. are typically just as shocked as everyone else. (With exceptions, including people who were severely mentally ill, like Cho at Virginia Tech.)


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> Thanks for the nice welcomes from samantha, 4brats, hsuthard, archer, harry, misty, dimples and geko, who I didn't already mention. I hope I didn't miss anyone. If you're still TBR, I hope you'll come back and let us know what you think once you have.
> 
> Some open items:
> 
> ...


It's actually not easy to "flip" to the end of a book on a Kindle. There are no page numbers - and those would change anyway depending on the size of the font you're using. So yes, I only discovered the notes when I got to the end. After reading a few pages I gave up because they no longer connected.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

DYB said:


> It's actually not easy to "flip" to the end of a book on a Kindle. There are no page numbers - and those would change anyway depending on the size of the font you're using. So yes, I only discovered the notes when I got to the end. After reading a few pages I gave up because they no longer connected.


Wow, that seems like a big design flaw. Has there been an outcry (or maybe I'm missing something)? And word on them fixing it? (It seems like they could give you options or let you manually over-ride, reset it, whatever.)

I also didn't realize they did away with page numbers. I'm not sure whether I like that. Even if they display pages differently depending on font size, I like the idea of there being a consistent convention to them in the book, sort of like chapters, which are definitely set.

Also, doesn't it make it harder to talk specifics with someone, say about something on page xxx? (Or especially in class discussion in school.)

Maybe this would seem less important once I started using one.

BTW, I sat next to someone with a Kindle on the subway yesterday and it looked amazing! Suddenly, I lusted for one. (I'm not sure which version it was, though. It might have been the DX, because the buttons were small, down in a very small area below the screen. I should have asked, but didn't want to intrude.)

Is there any place for a person to check out a physical version?


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

If there is a TOC, then there should be a listing for the notes at the end.  A good table of contents allows us to click on a chapter, afterword, introduction, notes, etc. and go directly to it.  I use it often, and I don't really care if going to the end of the book ruins the sync to furthest page between kindles.  When I need to sync one of my kindles to another, I just go to the location number.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I have read at least one Kindle book that was formatted so that marked footnotes (really endnotes) were clickable. . . .it took you to the note when you selected it and when you were done reading, you click back and you're where you left off in the body of the book.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

They sell Kindles at Target, although the display is pretty poor and is a marginally functional unit that only shows a few demo screens. It's also the last generation Kindle that is displayed. Supposedly they are going to have the new Kindle (K3 here) very shortly. It was also recently announced that Best Buy and Staples will be selling Kindles as well.


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## jackwestjr_author (Aug 19, 2010)

Dave,

Having taught in high school for twelve years, the Columbine incident struck a disharmonious chord deep in my heart.  I appreciate your thoughtful treatment of an incredibly complex issue.  In particular, I find heartening your search for lessons that can be learned from what happened at Columbine.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for all that info. 

How lame of Target displaying the old version. That doesn't do buyers like me much good. But I'm glad to hear Amazon is branching out to get them in all those chains. That will be huge. (Getting to try out a new gizmo is key. Some early adopters will buy it anyway, but you're never going to get mass market sales that way: until there are enough kindles that everyone has a friend with one to check out.) 

Ann, I like that version a lot. I think I'd like my next book to be that way. We decided NOT to put footnote numbers in the text, because it's so distracting, and it doesn't really help you get to the the note that well anyway. (There is no easy way to jump back and forth easily in a printed book, except as footnotes there on the page, and we definitely didn't want them that intrusive.)

But we're so used to links on web pages now that they do feel unobtrusive and optional (and there are no stray extra characters feeling like clutter/distractions). It definitely makes it more easily option for the reader, to either use them or ignore.

I think that's just what I want.

More, soon.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

DaveCullen said:


> I also didn't realize they did away with page numbers. I'm not sure whether I like that. Even if they display pages differently depending on font size, I like the idea of there being a consistent convention to them in the book, sort of like chapters, which are definitely set.
> 
> Also, doesn't it make it harder to talk specifics with someone, say about something on page xxx? (Or especially in class discussion in school.)


The Kindle has locations, Dave, and locations are more precise than pages. A 250 page book might have 4500 locations, so they allow you to drill down and be more specific to locate something (or reference something to someone else).

Lots of people complain about locations and wish they had pages but I don't know why. Locations work just fine for me.

L


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> How lame of Target displaying the old version. That doesn't do buyers like me much good. But I'm glad to hear Amazon is branching out to get them in all those chains. That will be huge. (Getting to try out a new gizmo is key. Some early adopters will buy it anyway, but you're never going to get mass market sales that way: until there are enough kindles that everyone has a friend with one to check out.)


Based on some posts made Friday, looks like Target got the new Kindles delivered either Thursday or Friday. Apparently, Best Buy also has a display up for the new Kindle, but no stock as of yet.


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## Christopher Meeks (Aug 2, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> Having it available on my website, or in the back of the book, still feels external to me. You may want to reference it as you go, and that's fine, but it FEELS like something separate from the story, which you're doing on your own. (The same way I was adamant that my book have extensive Endnote, but that they be in the back, without numbers inserted into the main text. Every reader could choose to read them as they went, at the end, or not at all, but they would be separate, and not interrupting.)
> 
> I hope this doesn't seem like a trivial distinction to some people, because it's vitally important to me.


Dave--

Your book sounds fabulous, and your hesitation for adding links make perfect sense to me--and yet I have another way you might look at it. I happen to put out a monthly newsletter on the writing life (and life), which goes out to just under a thousand people. I began my writing life as a journalist, too, and it's the articles I write--the words--that are important to me. After about a year, I started adding links and photos to the articles I wrote. To send the newsletter, I use a service call iContact, and I get reports. I notice from the reports that very few people actually click on any of the links. It's there as a kind of supplement, but it also tells me that people are not as multitasking as you may think. If they're reading a good story, they are unlikely to click on the links. Perhaps on a second reading they will. Thus, adding links will not take away from your writing and later becomes a reson to reread.

--Chris Meeks


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

jackwestjr_author said:


> Dave,
> 
> Having taught in high school for twelve years, the Columbine incident struck a disharmonious chord deep in my heart. I appreciate your thoughtful treatment of an incredibly complex issue. In particular, I find heartening your search for lessons that can be learned from what happened at Columbine.


Thanks, Jack. I've been particularly happy and relieved to see the book clicking with teachers (and with students--which surprised me a little).

Why did you leave teaching? I get distressed when I hear about the profession driving a lot of good people out. Kids need good, energized teachers.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

911jason said:


> Based on some posts made Friday, looks like Target got the new Kindles delivered either Thursday or Friday. Apparently, Best Buy also has a display up for the new Kindle, but no stock as of yet.


Nice. This will make a difference. And I will be checking them out soon. (I don't know if we have Targets here in Manhattan, but we have Staples.)

I hope it doesn't make me too antsy, though, while I wait for a price drop. I may ask for one for Christmas if they drop.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Christopher Meeks said:


> . . . I notice from the reports that very few people actually click on any of the links. It's there as a kind of supplement, but it also tells me that people are not as multitasking as you may think. If they're reading a good story, they are unlikely to click on the links. Perhaps on a second reading they will. Thus, adding links will not take away from your writing and later becomes a reson to reread.


Good to get some solid data on that. That's what I've heard from websites where I've published, too. And it's refreshing. I prefer the idea of readers getting engrossed in the story and not looking till later, but everyone reads differently, and it's dumb to try to force any particular reader to take the book in the way they want.

So it's nice to have options, and also the ability to read them when you're done.

I'm just leery of anything that _sways _a large percentage of the readers into approaching books in a different way, especially if it undermines the experience for many of them.

I think it's wise to look at the meta picture: How will ebooks affect the reading experience, if at all?


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I have read at least one Kindle book that was formatted so that marked footnotes (really endnotes) were clickable. . . .it took you to the note when you selected it and when you were done reading, you click back and you're where you left off in the body of the book.


This is my preference. I've read numerous books with this setup, and really like being able to easily click directly to the appropriate endnote. I don't find it distracting at all. Reading the notes all at the end makes it a little more difficult to remember what specifically they refer to.

Just finished the book Dave, and it was amazing. I typically don't care for nonfiction novelizations (they seem to ring false or manufactured, even if they're 100% accurate), but found both the tone and style completely appropriate to the material, and it actually helped draw me in. With regards to pictures/illustrations, perhaps the one thing I would have liked to see is a map or two: most importantly, the campus itself, so I could see the relationship of the school to the parking lot, foothils, mountains, park, and the surrounding neighborhoods. That would have helped to solidify my understanding of the goings-on as people moved from one place to another. Of lesser importance would be a map of the town itself, showing the Leawood school, police station, the killers' homes and the churches you reference in the narrative; and the interior of the school itself--which falls into "lesser importance" because of your vivid descriptions making it almost superfluous.

I agree with the others that I don't need pictures of the events or participants. Though of course it's additional detail, the faces are really tangential to the story, and like you mention, if I really need to see them, I can find them. But thanks again for writing such a great book! I'm very glad to have read it.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

geko29 said:


> Just finished the book Dave, and it was amazing. I typically don't care for nonfiction novelizations (they seem to ring false or manufactured, even if they're 100% accurate), but found both the tone and style completely appropriate to the material, and it actually helped draw me in.


Thanks, geko. That's interesting, because I had a conversation along those lines with my agent a few weeks ago. I loved Devil In The White City (until the end), but she didn't buy it as nonfiction. She said it read like a potboiler novel and didn't trust it. She feels that nonfiction demands a certain voice, distinct from novels.

I had not really thought about that before, and not sure whether I agree or not. I need to read more with that thought in mind.



geko29 said:


> With regards to pictures/illustrations, perhaps the one thing I would have liked to see is a map or two: most importantly, the campus itself, so I could see the relationship of the school to the parking lot, foothils, mountains, park, and the surrounding neighborhoods. That would have helped to solidify my understanding of the goings-on as people moved from one place to another. Of lesser importance would be a map of the town itself, showing the Leawood school, police station, the killers' homes and the churches you reference in the narrative; and the interior of the school itself--which falls into "lesser importance" because of your vivid descriptions making it almost superfluous.


I agree with you. I hesitate to mention this here, but we corrected that in the paperback. We ("we") added a diagram of the school and environs, which gives most of that, except the town.

Unfortunately, they have not updated the Kindle version yet. They say they are working on it. I hope they do it soon.

(BTW, I said "we" because the author is responsible for that. I had to find an artist, spent about 40 work hours with him getting it the way I wanted, and pay him. I never knew that was part of the author's job, but it is.)


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## dimples (Jul 28, 2010)

Dave, I finally got your book and am just about to start reading it. I see there's been some discussion about the kindle edition and the end notes. I like being able to click the footnotes/endnotes as Ann and geko mentioned as well. Maybe/hopefully that will someday be implemented in the kindle edition? 
But that's a different story. For now I'm going to sit back and do my reading


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks, Dimples. Let me know what you think. I'll be interested to hear.

I have a question for the group about the lack of page numbers, which surprised me, and has been ruminating in my head.

It came up this weekend, as I was working on a big expansion and re-design of the instructor guide for my book. We broke out suggested reading assignments for various topics. For example, here's the actual reading list for one topic:

*PTSD (and recovery). Pages:*
96-98 (Chapter 19 "Vacuuming")
101-2, 106-7
116-122
281-292
312-314
354-8 (Chapter 53 "At the Broken Places")

So how do you tell students what to read on a Kindle? Young people are likely to be early adopters, and schools will be a huge market once prices come down.

It also seems to me that I cite page numbers from time to time when discussing books--especially in class, when I was in grad school: constantly. ("On page xxx, I liked how . . .") I would think book clubs have the same issue, though I've never been in one. But they are very important to sustaining books.

Do you guys find yourselves hampered by that much?

I think they need to create something. Seems easy enough. Or is there some other way to do it?

---

_*Update:*_

Shortly after I finished this, I decided to adapt it into a blog post, and also use it as an occasion to tell people about this site. You can read and/or comment at the link.

And I can't believe I mentioned my Instructor Guide without linking! Haha. My marketing department will be furious!

It's here in the update.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

You bring up very valid points Dave, I just don't know what the answer is. The only thing I can think of would be to leave the page numbers from either the hardcover or paperback in place and just because you click next page on the Kindle doesn't mean you are going to see a new page number. Maybe this could be in addition to leaving the Kindle "locations" feature in place and either you would see both or choose which you'd like to see in the settings menu.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Oh, ick.  Multi-media in my books?  Nooo... please no.  To me, that would yank me right out of a story.  About the only thing that I would feel differently about is that I sometimes read true crime books and they'll sometimes have an insert of about 8 pages of photos in the middle of the book.  Those are cool.  But, yeah, mainly I'm with the other commenter up-thread:  I want my books the same as they've always been, just on my Kindle (formatted nicely, please!).


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Dave, readers can search in a kindle book for a phrase to find the right place.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm relieved that most of you guys want your books the way they were: just words.

---

FYI, SpikeTV is rerunning the episode featuring me Saturday morning. (I didn't say much before it ran the first time, because I wasn't sure how they would treat the subject. It was fine.)

Info here, a somewhat odd picture of me supposedly in the Columbine hallways. (Those are really the hallways, but I'm not really there):

http://www.davecullenblog.com/2010/10/im-on-spike-tv-on-columbine-saturday.html

FYI, my Columbine Online site and  are both previewable in beta. And my 



 intro video is doing well, but could use links.

Update: I moved the Teacher's Guide to a new home, and updated the link.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up Dave... I wasn't even sure if I had SpikeTV, but I searched my DVR for "CULLEN" and the show came right up. I have it set to record.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I just set my DVR to record it. Thank you for letting us know about it.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks. I hope you guys liked the show.

There is also a good new interview with me on writing, reporting and Columbine in the new Coachella Review:

http://thecoachellareview.com/nonfiction/interview_davecullen.html


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

I thought you guys would want to ask about the content of _Columbine_. Feel free, if you like.

Also, if any of you are aspiring journalists--or know any--I've started an advice series for writers and journos on my blog.

The third installment is up today: Roles sources can play (and why that matters)

And I'll try to capture all the good ones over time on this permanent Advice to Writers page on my site.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

FYI, I'm a guest poster today on Slate's excellent XX Factor blog, with Columbine's Lost Lesson.

http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/columbines-lost-lesson

It's about the bizarre suicide pact between the two Australian twins.

You can also listen or read a transcript to my appearance Saturday on Sydney's morning radio show AM, discussing the same case:

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2010/s3071910.htm


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

All hostages released from Wisconsin high school

http://www.davecullenblog.com/2010/11/all-hostages-released-from-wi-high.html


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

I posted Kindlebook suggestions here for anyone who got a Kindle as a gift:

http://www.davecullenblog.com/2010/12/if-you-got-kindleipadnook-ebook.html

I picked things you probably don't know, but might love. I do. And they are all available on the Kindle, and linked.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

DaveCullen said:


> I posted Kindlebook suggestions here for anyone who got a Kindle as a gift:
> 
> http://www.davecullenblog.com/2010/12/if-you-got-kindleipadnook-ebook.html
> 
> I picked things you probably don't know, but might love. I do. And they are all available on the Kindle, and linked.


Nice list. Thanks for posting.


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## RachelHowzell (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks, Dave. I'm a fan of yours -- read Columbine twice and recommended it to friends and family. And I went on and on about it on my own blog.

Hope you're having a lovely holiday season. Alas, it keeps raining here in Los Angeles.

Rachel

Visit me at http://www.writinginmycar.blogspot.com.


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## MMullin (Dec 30, 2010)

Reading this now. About 1/2 way through. My wife and friends recommended it. Absolutely first rate! (Although not exactly upbeat Christmastime reading.... oh well.) I have an old-fashioned paper-pages version that's admittedly borrowed, but i always find myself without it when i have spare time... SO i bought it on my iPhone. Congrats on the fabulous work.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks mlewis, rachel and mmullin. I really appreciate you guys recommending it to people.

FYI, I was on MSNBC yesterday for a segment on the Tucson tragedy, outlining four major types of mass murderer. (And arguing that we drop "senseless" from our vocabulary on these things.)

And I did an opinion piece on it for AOL News Don't Rush The Healing.

More pieces by me on the tragedy.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Which (whose) MSNBC show were you on?


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## Ruth Harris (Dec 26, 2010)

Hi Dave,


> I kind of rekindled my love of reading during that time.


Do you maybe mean re-Kindled? (sorry, couldn't help myself)

Seriously, I devoured COLUMBINE in all its incarnations. For me at least, the subject is riveting and one I simply couldn't get enough of. I'm in awe of your immaculate work.

What are you working on now? (if you can say)


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

mlewis78 said:


> Which (whose) MSNBC show were you on?


Dylan Ratigan. I linked to it in my post above.

He was really smart. I was impressed.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

Ruth Harris said:


> Hi Dave,
> Do you maybe mean re-Kindled? (sorry, couldn't help myself)
> 
> Seriously, I devoured COLUMBINE in all its incarnations. For me at least, the subject is riveting and one I simply couldn't get enough of. I'm in awe of your immaculate work.
> ...


Thanks. I'm working on "The Colonel's Husband," which could be a mag piece and/or book on two closeted army officers. I keep getting pulled back in to write about things like Tucson, though, and speaking to high schools.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

So, a year and a half after arriving here, I finally got a Kindle. Asked for the Touch for Christmas, and my sisters obliged. 

I was waiting for the price below $100, and a touchscreen, with no space "wasted" (in my view) on the keyboard. 

So far, I'm very happy with it, though I have not read a lot yet. I wanted to download "All Quiet on the Western Front" to read on the subway, but it doesn't appear to be available. Drat.


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

I may have mentioned my mentor Lucia Berlin to some of you. She died penniless eleven years ago, but she suddenly has her first bestseller (from FSG).

It's been a very exciting time. My Vanity Fair piece about my time with Lucia Berlin.

And for anyone in NYC, I'm one of the speakers at the big book event next Wednesday: http://www.davecullenblog.com/2015/09/nyc-event-stories-of-lucia-berlin-im.html


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm still plugging away at my gay soldiers book. It's coming slowly, but coming along.

I also just overhauled my website, with more info about it: www.davecullen.com

And a new blog there: www.davecullen.com/blog


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## DaveCullen (Sep 13, 2010)

My Columbine Teacher's Guide was hacked, but I'm happy to announce that it's back up, here: 
http://www.columbine-instructor-guide.com/


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