# Wizards Vs. Superheroes Vs. Vampires



## Guest (Jun 7, 2010)

What's your favorite fantasy paradigm? 

I've been trying to think more deeply about what it is about these basic structures that prove so popular time and time again. People seem to just respond to one of them in a visceral way, almost like they were real. So which one of these speaks to you and excites you the most? 

Wizards: magic spells that utilize phrases or potions to create special properties, spellbooks, witches, old guys with beards, black cats, a wave of a wand, pointy hats, crystal balls, wisdom, incantations, cauldrons, black magic 

Superheroes: innate abilities that allow a person to exert some influence over the external world, an extended hand, invincibility/time travel/flight, genetic mutations, experiments, science, good vs. evil, being different, solidarity, that gasp of realization when something incredible happens 

Vampires: immortality coupled with the timeless struggles of a human existence, pointy teeth, a bite on the neck, bats, coffins, the night, garlic, decadence, bloodlust, silver and wooden stakes, the guilt of murder, becoming one of them, regret, probably safe to toss in everything with werewolves here also 

Surely these categories aren't comprehensive, so if I'm missing a major component of these, throw it out there. Is there another construct you feel rivals these?


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

There's also hero fantasy which usually involves epic quests, they usually involve a sort of Virgin Mary character that they pine for but cannot reach due to some obligation set upon them by their morals (ala Petrarch).  There's usually a villain who is a representation of evil and the heroes tend to have a well known artifact or relic like Excalibur.

Then there is alternate history fantasy which is obvious and anthropomorphic fantasy which will probably end up falling into one of the other headings somehow.

That being said... I tend to like fantasy that doesn't trump up these cliches.  They may involve them, like Terry Pratchett's world does have wizards and witches and vampires and heroes, but his stories don't embrace that aspect of the fantasy.  In fact my favorite books are about a very unheroic, unmagical, quite alive captain of the city watch.  Of course he does have undead guards, but it's still not about that.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Generally I go more for the sort of fantasy based in a medieval-like world: essentially iron age but pre-industrial. As the typical "super hero" story tends to be based in modern or relatively modern times, I find them generally less easy to do the willing suspension of disbelief thing; but that's only relatively speaking, as I've read more than a few "urban fantasies" and such that I have enjoyed, but I'm not much for the classic comic-book-hero _a la_ Spiderman, Batman, Superman, _et al_.

I tend to avoid the vampire/werewolf/zombie thing, simply because most of them are a "been there, done that" sort of thing. But again, there have been exceptions, but usually those which deviate from the cliche story lines (e.g.: Zelazny's _A Night in the Lonesome October_, which has all of them and more [the narrator is Jack the Ripper's dog]).

And then there's one of my favorites, the "Amber" series by Zelazny. I'm not sure how that would fit, as it has elements of medieval swords and sorcery along with modern, almost sci-fi elements where the main characters could be considered super heroes (and super villains).


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm more of a science fiction reader than a fantasy reader, but I do read some fantasy.  I'd say I tend to cherry-pick from the best of each of the genres you mentioned.  I've read surprisingly little "wizards" type fiction, even though my reflex is to say that swords & sorcery fantasy is my favorite.  Tolkien's books, especially the trilogy, and Heinlein's Glory Road come to mind.  Oh, how can I forget Roger Zelazny and Jack Vance!  Dilvish the Damned and lots of stuff from Jack Vance falls under wizards.

As for vampires, I never got into Anne Rice's books and could care less about modern angst-ridden vampires, but among my favorite series ever is the late Fred Saberhagen's series about Count Dracula.  Great books, and a couple available on Kindle now!  An Old Friend of the Family and The Holmes-Dracula File are excellent books.  Though Saberhagen's Dracula is not a traditional Dracula (hint:  Dracula is the hero of the series even though they tie in well with the original Bram Stoker Dracula, and one of the books even recounts that story from Dracula's perspective).

I haven't read much superhero fiction, when I do it tends to be written in a science fiction vernacular rather than fantasy, I think.

One other genre I'd identify is the "fantasy world that closely parallels the real world".  I can think of two big examples of this, where many of the structures of our world are replicated using magic.  Poul Anderson's Operation Chaos is one, and Harry Turtledove's "The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump" (available in Kindle form from webscriptions.net) is another good one.  I have a disturbing feeling I'm forgetting a major example of this genre, maybe NogDog or someone will come along and pencil it in.  Added one minute later--Glenn Cook's Garrett Files stories are a cross between this genre and the standard Wizards trope, with a Sam Spade hardboiled detective (they even draw him in a trenchcoat on some of the covers) operates pulling private business security (worrying about things like pilferage and embezzling) in a world of elves and dwarves and powerful wizards.  Great books!

Good thread idea!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm actually reading my first vampire book right now and am thoroughly enjoying it.  I just wish I had time to read it faster.  33 AD... I have to admit I thought the concept was a bit ludicrous at first but the more I thought about it the more it intrigued me and I had to try it and glad I did.  I'll probably stick more to, like Nogdog said, sword and sorcery medieval type fantasy, but I won't be so afraid to branch out anymore.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2010)

Scheherazade said:


> There's also hero fantasy which usually involves epic quests, they usually involve a sort of Virgin Mary character that they pine for but cannot reach due to some obligation set upon them by their morals (ala Petrarch). There's usually a villain who is a representation of evil and the heroes tend to have a well known artifact or relic like Excalibur.
> 
> Then there is alternate history fantasy which is obvious and anthropomorphic fantasy which will probably end up falling into one of the other headings somehow.
> 
> That being said... I tend to like fantasy that doesn't trump up these cliches. They may involve them, like Terry Pratchett's world does have wizards and witches and vampires and heroes, but his stories don't embrace that aspect of the fantasy. In fact my favorite books are about a very unheroic, unmagical, quite alive captain of the city watch. Of course he does have undead guards, but it's still not about that.


There's lots here that I can agree with. I too find anything that sticks too closely to any particular type to be a turnoff, but it serves as a starting point to work off of. Your mention of a Virgin Mary type made me think of this amazing puzzle game I just played, called Braid, that fits into that type perfectly. http://www.braid-game.com/ .

That's great there are people wading into vampires for the first time too. I resist a lot of the new fashionable stuff, but Anne Rice is really a brilliant writer. What is the vampire book you mentioned?


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

I'm not really a big fan of either. I love the Twilight books - not because they're about vampires (which normally I don't care for at all), but because of the Romeo & Juliet themed love story. And I love Harry Potter - not because they're about the wizarding world, but because they're just so darn good.

I have to say, those two series really opened up my literary world.


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## D. Nathan Hilliard (Jun 5, 2010)

I've always found the attraction of wizards/witches to be the intimation of some form of deeper wisdom, or knowledge. The idea that here are charactors empowered by their knowledge of the world.

When it comes to vampires, I'm old school and view them as bad guys in need of a good staking.


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

D. Nathan Hilliard said:


> When it comes to vampires, I'm old school and view them as bad guys in need of a good staking.


You need to meet the Cullens.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2010)

D. Nathan Hilliard said:


> When it comes to vampires, I'm old school and view them as bad guys in need of a good staking.


I'm the same way! Very much the From Dusk Till Dawn variety of vampires. But they're not as bad as zombies. If there's one thing I can't forgive, it's being a zombie.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> What is the vampire book you mentioned?


33 AD







written by one of our resident authors, David McAfee. I have to admit I saw vampires and crosses on the cover and that made me take a closer look... being into historical fiction, the title grabbed me too. The premise seemed so ridiculous that I thought it would be a silly book like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, but like I said, the more I thought about it the more the idea intrigued me... the idea being that a group of vampires is trying to kill Jesus. I'm really enjoying it.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2010)

Scheherazade said:


> 33 AD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool, yeah, I'll have to take a look at the book too. It's funny you mention vampires and Jesus. I remember this old Cryptkeeper movie called Demon Knight. It's about a guy who becomes the protector of this key/flask with the blood of Christ in it in this eternal struggle against evil. Pretty cheesy stuff, but then kind of interesting too. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114608/plotsummary


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

I do love a good vampire story (Interview with..., Twilight, Reining In)!


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Perhaps I'm just a gamer geek, but I enjoy watching wizards fling around giant amounts of fire and ice, destroying buildings and summoning huge monsters...

David Dalglish


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> Perhaps I'm just a gamer geek, but I enjoy watching wizards fling around giant amounts of fire and ice, destroying buildings and summoning huge monsters...
> 
> David Dalglish


See, I'm not much on the destroying buildings. Then you need to raise all your victims back from the dead to rebuild everything. I mean, seriously, what is the point in taking over a wealthy city if you are going to have to rebuild it from scratch?

I'm more of a poisonous cloud sort of girl. Seep in during the night while everyone is sleeping and...

er, what were we talking about?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I love superheroes but they have to have some kind of weakness. For instance, Superman doesn't appeal to me because his only weakness is kryptonite and it's not like there's chunks of it laying around in the street. I just read Ironman and I loved that. The 'superhero' was a normal guy when not in his suit. I haven't seen the movies and not sure I want to now since I have my own picture of the character in my head. Spiderman is great too, although I don't much care for the evil monsters he has to fight. I think there would be plenty of tension from just the regular bad guys like murderers, terrorists and organized crime. 

I guess I like my superheroes firmly grounded in the real world.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2010)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I love superheroes but they have to have some kind of weakness. For instance, Superman doesn't appeal to me because his only weakness is kryptonite and it's not like there's chunks of it laying around in the street.


You obviously don't watch _Smallville_.   I swear, the crap is everywhere. Seriously, when you think about the amount of krytonite they have found, a meteor that size would have leveled the state!


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

bardsandsages said:


> You obviously don't watch _Smallville_.   I swear, the crap is everywhere. Seriously, when you think about the amount of krytonite they have found, a meteor that size would have leveled the state!


Haha! You're right; I don't watch it. I tried to in the early days of the show, but gave up when it got all confusing. I did like Lois and Clark when it was on. Dean Cain was an awesome Superman.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

I like superheroes enough that I have written a series of stories about them. My heroes are super, but grounded in the real world. The ebook is only on Smashwords right now:

http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/7901

A little later: Someone bought one! Thanks!


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

You have to remember, Bards, that some people don't want to actually take over. "Some people just want to watch the world burn." My favorite characters (like the Joker in DK) usually fall in that category.

David Dalglish


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Half-Orc said:


> You have to remember, Bards, that some people don't want to actually take over. "Some people just want to watch the world burn." My favorite characters (like the Joker in DK) usually fall in that category.
> 
> David Dalglish


Have you seen "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising"? It's a hoot.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Yes I have, and it is one of the funniest movies I have ever had the pleasure to watch with my friends.

David Dalglish


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## Madeline (Jun 5, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> Perhaps I'm just a gamer geek, but I enjoy watching wizards fling around giant amounts of fire and ice, destroying buildings and summoning huge monsters...
> 
> David Dalglish


What he said. 

I've sunk ENTIRELY too much time into Everquest, Oblivion, WOW, and Dragon Age!! I love me my ice/fire mages!


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## J Bee (May 17, 2010)

I'm a wizard guy, but I'm not fond of the classical portrayal. I like organized magical systems based on logic, and I like the magic itself to take some effort or skill from the user. I don't like magic spells that anyone can utter, potions that anyone can quaff, etc. Magic that draws from modern Paganism or Eastern philosophy usually strikes a chord with me.


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## TulipTrainer (Jun 6, 2010)

bardsandsages said:


> See, I'm not much on the destroying buildings. Then you need to raise all your victims back from the dead to rebuild everything. I mean, seriously, what is the point in taking over a wealthy city if you are going to have to rebuild it from scratch?
> 
> I'm more of a poisonous cloud sort of girl. Seep in during the night while everyone is sleeping and...
> 
> er, what were we talking about?


HAHA I've seen my share of poisonous clouds in my time. Sometimes I wish they would magically appear when my boss comes over with another stack of papers. That's about all they're good for.


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## D. Nathan Hilliard (Jun 5, 2010)

Jay Bell said:


> I'm a wizard guy, but I'm not fond of the classical portrayal. I like organized magical systems based on logic, and I like the magic itself to take some effort or skill from the user. I don't like magic spells that anyone can utter, potions that anyone can quaff, etc. Magic that draws from modern Paganism or Eastern philosophy usually strikes a chord with me.


I approach it completely from the opposite direction. I like to think of magic as something that manifests itself in unique ways each time it's encountered, with only a few poorly understood tomes here or there that scratches the surface of it. I like to think of it as a mysterious whole that is unseen except for parts encountered here and there in the dark crevices of the world.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2010)

Similar to this, we just started a contest on my blog for whomever can come up with the most creative and clever super power! It'll be a great way to win free copies of my book and match heads with other writers and readers of fantasy. Maybe you've got a pet peeve you've always wanted to avoid or a power you've always wanted to read about in a book. Post here on my blog to win: http://tinyurl.com/2f9yhrt

Here's my entry: If I could have any super power, I'd want to automatically have an excuse to get out of anything. Tired of this meeting? Oh no, my house is on fire! Have to sit jury duty? Wait a second, suddenly I'm the defendent! Perfect!


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Scheherazade said:


> I'm actually reading my first vampire book right now and am thoroughly enjoying it. I just wish I had time to read it faster. 33 AD... I have to admit I thought the concept was a bit ludicrous at first but the more I thought about it the more it intrigued me and I had to try it and glad I did. I'll probably stick more to, like Nogdog said, sword and sorcery medieval type fantasy, but I won't be so afraid to branch out anymore.


Man, I miss a lot of posts when I snooze. Thanks for checking out 33 A.D., Scheherazade. I hope you are still enjoying it. 



foreverjuly said:


> Cool, yeah, I'll have to take a look at the book too. It's funny you mention vampires and Jesus. I remember this old Cryptkeeper movie called Demon Knight. It's about a guy who becomes the protector of this key/flask with the blood of Christ in it in this eternal struggle against evil. Pretty cheesy stuff, but then kind of interesting too. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114608/plotsummary


I've never heard of that, but already interested. Thanks for posting the link.


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't think I have ever read a story about a superhero, at least not in the sense of Spiderman or Batman. I do remember loving stories about witches though, nothing dark but fun and mysterious. It wasn't until last year that I even read my first vampire novel (the twilight series) so based on that I would have to say that even though I love some of the vampire stories I have read, I still really love book like HP way more. But, I don't know too many like that other than maybe the Dresden ones? Anyone have any good recommendations?


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## bvlarson (May 16, 2010)

Superheroes!
But I like my heroes to have some magic powers-- i. e. Frodo should have been putting on that ring more and kicking some butt!


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2010)

MLPMom said:


> I don't think I have ever read a story about a superhero, at least not in the sense of Spiderman or Batman. I do remember loving stories about witches though, nothing dark but fun and mysterious. It wasn't until last year that I even read my first vampire novel (the twilight series) so based on that I would have to say that even though I love some of the vampire stories I have read, I still really love book like HP way more. But, I don't know too many like that other than maybe the Dresden ones? Anyone have any good recommendations?


Yeah, I completely understand what you mean. I'm convinced that authors who pursue the superhero vein of young-adult fantasy (as I do) are going to be the next big thing once the vampire craze ends. But most of the time authors are doing the same sorts of stuff that's been in comic books for forever--evolution, tight spandex suits. What Harry Potter did that was revolutionary was personalize magic and put it with basically everyday kids. It has to be about the characters first, and the fantasy element becomes an accentuation of that. That's what I try to do with the super hero thing.


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## lorezskyline (Apr 19, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> Perhaps I'm just a gamer geek, but I enjoy watching wizards fling around giant amounts of fire and ice, destroying buildings and summoning huge monsters...
> 
> David Dalglish


Haha totally agree with that, I think my 1st exposure to fireballs etc flying around evrywhere was the Dungeons and Dragons Cartoon series I always wanted the Rangers cool bow that fired the energy bolt arrows. Does anyone remember that?



MaryMcDonald said:


> I love superheroes but they have to have some kind of weakness. For instance, Superman doesn't appeal to me because his only weakness is kryptonite and it's not like there's chunks of it laying around in the street.


Whenever I think about Superman I always think about the Tatantino quote how every other superhero i.e. Batman, Spiderman the Hero is the alterego but with Superman the hero is the real person and Clark Kent is the alterego. I do agree though also for me Superman was just to goody goody.


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> Yeah, I completely understand what you mean. I'm convinced that authors who pursue the superhero vein of young-adult fantasy (as I do) are going to be the next big thing once the vampire craze ends. But most of the time authors are doing the same sorts of stuff that's been in comic books for forever--evolution, tight spandex suits. What Harry Potter did that was revolutionary was personalize magic and put it with basically everyday kids. It has to be about the characters first, and the fantasy element becomes an accentuation of that. That's what I try to do with the super hero thing.


I actually purchased your book it is on my TBR list. 

I have heard some great reviews about it and am looking forward to starting it.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2010)

MLPMom said:


> I actually purchased your book it is on my TBR list.
> 
> I have heard some great reviews about it and am looking forward to starting it.


Thank you so much! I'm honored to count you as a reader! I hope you're able to find something in the book that catches your interest. Be sure to let me know how it goes!


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## beckyj20 (Jun 12, 2010)

Im completely in love with vampire books! I cant stop reading them. My best friend reads the same books as me. We have had several discussions about why we like them so much, but we havent been able to come up with a good answer. I think it has something to do with them being dark, powerful, and immortal. I love to read all the different takes the authors have. 

I plan to read other paranormal books eventually though. I loved the Vampire Academy by Richelle Mead and she has two adult series that aren't vampires that I really want to read. So I am willing to read other stuff too.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2010)

I can't blame you for sticking with them then. There's definitely something to be said for knowing what you like and getting the most out of it. It's exactly that difficulty of articulating it that inspired me to make this thread. Why do we get caught up in these different motifs? Have you found anything else that gives you the same kind of thrill but isn't vampires? Zombies perhaps?


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## beckyj20 (Jun 12, 2010)

I will admit that Twilight was the first "paranormal" book I have ever read. Before Twilight, I would only read fiction books that could definitely happen in real life. I enjoyed reading them, but I havent read anything that I enjoy as much as Vampires. But I havent branched out into other paranormal books yet. So who knows what else I might like just as much if not more. Ive always had a fascination with vampires though. I would dress up as one every halloween. The Twilight books just opened my eyes to that genre.


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## sbaum4853 (May 3, 2010)

Superheroes are the most interesting I think because they require an origin and a purpose.  I'm not terribly interested in vampires or wizards unless they are finding their way into a superhero mold (as is the case with Harry Potter).  

Superheroes also includes the subgenre of 1960s Japanese rubber suit monsters destroying Tokyo and being stopped by giant robot men or the like, which is a personal favorite of mine.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2010)

sbaum4853 said:


> Superheroes are the most interesting I think because they require an origin and a purpose. I'm not terribly interested in vampires or wizards unless they are finding their way into a superhero mold (as is the case with Harry Potter).
> 
> Superheroes also includes the subgenre of 1960s Japanese rubber suit monsters destroying Tokyo and being stopped by giant robot men or the like, which is a personal favorite of mine.


Yes, I know exactly you mean, and that's the appeal of superheroes too. I like that they each require their own rules and so that can make their collaborations or conflicts more unique.

When I'm at my elementary school here in Japan, sometimes I feel a lot like Godzilla.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

Of the three types of characters in the title of this thread, it seems to me that wizards are never the main character of books. Is it assumed that a wizard could just wave his hand and solve everything, making the story too short? Or maybe I'm wrong and there are some books with a wizard or other magical personage as the main character. Someone will mention Terry Pratchett, but his books are humorous so they aren't quite in the same category as a I am thinking of.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

R. Reed said:


> Of the three types of characters in the title of this thread, it seems to me that wizards are never the main character of books. Is it assumed that a wizard could just wave his hand and solve everything, making the story too short? Or maybe I'm wrong and there are some books with a wizard or other magical personage as the main character. Someone will mention Terry Pratchett, but his books are humorous so they aren't quite in the same category as a I am thinking of.


Clearly you've never read the TWINS trilogy by Margaret Weis and Tracey Hickman. Main character's name was Raistlin (and his twin brother Caramon). As evil a wizard as they come. His goal was to challenge the gods for a place in the heavens. Excellent series.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

Haven't heard of that. I'll have to look it up.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

You haven't heard of Raistlin?? Wow, you're in for a treat. I'd recommend reading the major trilogy of Dragonlance novels first before starting in on the twins. The twins aren't the sole main characters, but Raistlin is easily the star. No Kindle version, though. Here's the first one: http://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Autumn-Twilight-Dragonlance-Chronicles/dp/0786915749/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277343812&sr=8-1

David Dalglish


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## lorezskyline (Apr 19, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> You haven't heard of Raistlin?? Wow, you're in for a treat. I'd recommend reading the major trilogy of Dragonlance novels first before starting in on the twins. The twins aren't the sole main characters, but Raistlin is easily the star. No Kindle version, though. Here's the first one: http://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Autumn-Twilight-Dragonlance-Chronicles/dp/0786915749/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277343812&sr=8-1
> 
> David Dalglish


Id forgotten about those books a great series I will have to dust off my old paper copies, another good series about mages in the Dragonlance books are the Defneders Of Magic Trilology. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Night-Eye-Dragonlance-Defenders-Trilogy/dp/1560768401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277368695&sr=8-1


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> You haven't heard of Raistlin?? Wow, you're in for a treat. I'd recommend reading the major trilogy of Dragonlance novels first before starting in on the twins. The twins aren't the sole main characters, but Raistlin is easily the star. No Kindle version, though. Here's the first one: http://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Autumn-Twilight-Dragonlance-Chronicles/dp/0786915749/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277343812&sr=8-1
> 
> David Dalglish


I have to agree with the recommendation to read the first trilogy before the TWINS trilogy. I only mentioned it to illustrate the point about the MC being a wizard. Another good one is the Death Gate Cycle. The main character's name is Haplo, and he's a warrior/wizrd type. Extremely powerful magic, but also pretty good with a blade. Excellent series.

Come to think of it, Terry Goodkind's series about Richard Rahl would fit here, too. Richard is a wizard, after all. Kinda.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

Yeah, there are plenty of good wizard stories out there. Even though they call them bards instead of wizards, Sea of Trolls by Nancy Farmer was a great one.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

Never cracked a Dragonlance book. They just look cheesy. I suppose I shouldn't judge by the cover.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

The very, very first ones way back when were fantastic. Raistlin is one of those characters fantasy lovers should be exposed to at least once.

David Dalglish


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## Sharlow (Dec 20, 2009)

lorezskyline said:


> Haha totally agree with that, I think my 1st exposure to fireballs etc flying around evrywhere was the Dungeons and Dragons Cartoon series I always wanted the Rangers cool bow that fired the energy bolt arrows. Does anyone remember that?
> 
> Whenever I think about Superman I always think about the Tatantino quote how every other superhero i.e. Batman, Spiderman the Hero is the alterego but with Superman the hero is the real person and Clark Kent is the alterego. I do agree though also for me Superman was just to goody goody.


I have a differing point of view here. In my opinion the market is glutted with heroes that can barely control themselves, and walk a fine line between being bad or being good. The markets are like 90% that, hell they are even starting to turn goody goody's like Cyclops into emo bad boys.

What the market doesn't have almost any of that are unique in my opinion are heroes like Superman, or Captain America, or The original Thor. Paragons of goodness. I think there is a need for these types of heroes and so I'd have to say that Superman needs to be goody goody, and should always remain such. Otherwise wheres the bar of what is good?


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