# Book Banning? In this day and age?



## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

I am aghast!

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/2010/03/26/hillsborough-county-schools-media-specialists-present-report-on-whether-to-ban-augusten-burroughs-running-with-scissors/#more-69890

What is most frightening is the arbitrary nature of the decision, given how many other books also contain mature content.

Also don't they realize by banning it every teenager will now want to read it?


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## Dana (Dec 4, 2009)

Magenta said:


> Also don't they realize by banning it every teenager will now want to read it?


Yep... even I want to read this one now out of curiosity. I picked it up at a thrift store shortly before getting my Kindle, but didn't get around to reading it.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

I am neither aghast or surprised. This issue comes up often, usually resolved in a similar way, and the kids that want to read the book find a way to do so.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I oppose banning books by institutions in all instances. It is not a church, a school or a government's place deciding what may and may not be read.

That said, I do agree with marking some books as requiring parental consent. There are many books I would want to know if my child was interested in reading (granted, my child is 27 now and a mother but back in the day ....) but I don't want them deciding for me. For example, if she wanted to read the _Left Behind_ series, I would want to know so I could read them with her and ensure she understands them in the appropriate context. I can't think of many books I wouldn't let a teenager read but I would want to know what she was reading.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

The _Catcher in the Rye_ was banned from my junior high school library so my mother bought the hardcover for me. I passed the favor onward when _Go Ask Alice_ was banned by my daughter's high school library.


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

I know that _The Catcher in the Rye_ has been banned several times by different institutions, but I just don't get it. I don't understand what's so terrible about it. I actually thought it was quite boring ... which reminds me of that recent South Park episode where they read the book because it's banned, don't understand what's so offensive about it and then decide to write their own offensive book that ends up ridiculously popular. 



Geoffrey said:


> I oppose banning books by institutions in all instances ...
> That said, I do agree with marking some books as requiring parental consent. There are many books I would want to know if my child was interested in reading (granted, my child is 27 now and a mother but back in the day ....) but I don't want them deciding for me.


Agreed.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Running with Scissors was made into a movie a few years ago.  Silly for them to ban it.  Guess they think kids will act out the events in the book.  I haven't read it.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

Jeff said:


> The _Catcher in the Rye_ was banned from my junior high school library so my mother bought the hardcover for me. I passed the favor onward when _Go Ask Alice_ was banned by my daughter's high school library.


YES! I love a rebel!



AddieLove said:


> I know that _The Catcher in the Rye_ has been banned several times by different institutions, but I just don't get it. I don't understand what's so terrible about it. I actually thought it was quite boring ... which reminds me of that recent South Park episode where they read the book because it's banned, don't understand what's so offensive about it and then decide to write their own offensive book that ends up ridiculously popular.
> Agreed.


LOL - I just watched that episode the other night. I loved Cartman's line...... "I just read a book....for nothing." Trey Parker and Matt Stone crack me up.

Here's a link. Be warned it is not edited for language and some may find this offensive. DO NOT play with small children within ear shot!

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/267356/?tag=JD+Salinger


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm ashamed to admit I live in Hillsborough County, where this is taking place, but proud to say we send our kids to private schools, and literature is one of the reasons.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Well, several schools tried to ban Harry Potter. I dont get it. 

This is one of the reasons I homeschool. I can let my children read what they want and not have anybody dictate what the should or shouldn't read. (That's MY decision, not some overzealous group)


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

I'm with Jeff's mom on this  --  if I find out that DD's (future) school is banning anything, I'm very likely to go buy it for that reason.  And then use the reading as an opportunity for a talk about censorship, narrowmindedness, and bigotry.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

All through Middle and High schools, my father always made it a point to find out which (if any) books were banned, would buy them for me (if he didn't own them already) then encouraged me to make sure I was seen reading them. He happily fielded any complaints from the schools, of which there were only ever two instances where somebody complained.

On one occasion, one of my teachers offered me the opportunity to turn in a report on one of them privately while publicly turning in a completely made up garbage report on some other random book I didn't have to read, and he'd just plop a grade on it based on the private report. Although I did actually read the second book and wrote two reports.

It's always a pleasure to see a rebellious hippie teacher ready to stick it to da man.


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

When DH and I were in high school (class of 71), our school did not ban books. However the suggested reading list did have notations next to specific books to notify students of controversial content. There were also discussions in class about censorship and book banning and why the school did not ban books. I believe that one of the books that I read for class, _Manchild in the Promised Land_ by Claude Brown, was banned in some other places at that time. Book banning was not a problem when our daughter was in school. However we have had discussions about censorship and her views and ours match: Institutions should not make decisions about what we and our children are able to read.

I checked with DH and learned that the middle school in our local town has currently removed some books from their library but the books are available at the high school and public libraries. DH and the other librarians usually set up a display featuring banned books during Banned Books week.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Haha. ^ All the talk about DH prompted me to remember D.H. Lawrence's _Lady Chatterley's Lover_. A girl in high school loaned me a dog eared copy. I was shocked but read every word.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

When you're not "supposed" to be reading something, it just makes it all the more attractive.  When I was around 12 or 13, I had read everything I cared to read in the (fairly small) kids' section at the library across the street, and they wouldn't let me borrow from the adults' section until 14.  So my mother pointed to her own bookshelves, and told me I could read whatever I wanted except for the stuff on the top right shelf which was still too grown-up for me.  Guess which shelf I went to first.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I don't think my school ever banned any books outright. But, I had a 6th grade teacher who constantly questioned my reading choices and called my mom on more than one occasion to express her concerns (I was in my horror period so I was reading '_The Omen_' and it's like ...)

But, as a Senior, I did an independent study with a teacher who turned me on to things like _The Ugly American_ and Kurt Vonnegutt and other books that caused some raised eyebrows from some of my other teachers ...


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## Ilovetoread (Apr 4, 2010)

Jeff said:


> I passed the favor onward when _Go Ask Alice_ was banned by my daughter's high school library.


I loved that book when I was a young teen


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

"Are you there God, it's me Margaret" by Judy Blume was kind of like contraband for us in middle school.  In some ways I think that book should have been part of the curriculum.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

mamiller said:


> "Are you there God, it's me Margaret" by Judy Blume was kind of like contraband for us in middle school. In some ways I think that book should have been part of the curriculum.


That and her, "Then Again, Maybe I Won't" went a long way to putting words around all that puberty angst. They were contraband gold at school cuz most parents didn't want their little 11 and 12yos reading such nasty things, but my mother encouraged me to read both of them ....


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## austenfiend (Nov 17, 2009)

This may be a rash generalization, but I personally think that people that jump on the "banning" bandwagon 1) haven't read the book themselves; and/or 2) don't want to take the time to have discussions with the kids about the book.  There have been a number of books that I've read before letting my son read it so we could discuss it together.  These are teachable moments...


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

I don't think banning books is the way to go.  I do think a parent should read the book first to make sure it's ok for the specific child.  I, and a friend of mine, love the Twilight books, but she won't let her 14 yr old read the books or see the movies b/c she's not mature enough to see the difference between a healthy relationship and the relationship between the main characters.  I wouldn't let my 13 yr old neice read the book for the same reason (that and said neice hadn't had a long time w/ someone w/ a healthy relationship).

I remember reading books that were "too much" for me.  I was around 12 when I read Carrie and was caught by my mom who threw a fit ("you're bringing the devil into this house by reading that man's books), but I read it.  I know, yes, children will read what is forbidden, but still it's the PARENTs job to police what their child reads.  Every household is different, and every household has different standards about what is appropriate  .


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

Ick @ book banning.  My school was so happy to have anyone reading that they encouraged us to read anything at all.  Thankfully, I was allowed to read anything I wanted at home too.  Except once, my grandmother wouldn't let me read Flowers in the Attic so of course I read it sneakily anyway.  Best way to make someone want to read something is to tell them they aren't allowed.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

farrellclaire said:


> Best way to make someone want to read something is to tell them they aren't allowed.


Maybe they should sell Shakespeare in plain brown wrappers...


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I know I will be all by myself in this little opinion, but I dont see what the big deal is with removing books from school libraries.  Kids are underage, something are not appropriate for them.  I cant judge what is or isnt because I am not their parent.

To me, banning books is making them illegal to own.  Removing them from a childs school library is not the same.  Just my humble opinion. And I have never lobbied to have a book removed from a library, dont have kids and really dont care who other peoples kids do.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

KindleChickie said:


> I know I will be all by myself in this little opinion, but I dont see what the big deal is with removing books from school libraries.


It isn't a big deal - until they start burning the books and hanging the authors.


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Haha. ^ All the talk about DH prompted me to remember D.H. Lawrence's _Lady Chatterley's Lover_. A girl in high school loaned me a dog eared copy. I was shocked but read every word.


I will need to ask my Dear Husband if D.H. Lawrence's _Lady Chatterley's Lover_ is one of the books they put out on the display or was just one of the books on the printed lists of books that had been banned somewhere but were available at the library. 

On a more serious note, my husband and the other librarians at our local library have had to deal with people attempting to censor what is available at the library. This has included people removing pages from library books, damaging or destroying public library books, as well as requests to remove the books from the library. The people who are caught damaging the books have to pay a fine and pay for the book. However their actions do remove access to the material until it can be replaced and re-catalogued. This is one of the many reasons why each book returned to the library needs to be inspected.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

KindleChickie said:


> I know I will be all by myself in this little opinion, but I dont see what the big deal is with removing books from school libraries. Kids are underage, something are not appropriate for them. * I cant judge what is or isnt because I am not their parent.*


That's exactly the point -- it should be the_ parents_ who judge what is appropriate for their child, not the school district.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

Well, it sounds like in the article it WAS parents who initiated the request to withdraw the book from school libraries. Plus there is a rather extensive review process, and only a few of the schools involved had to physically remove the book.

This kind of stuff is silly, IMHO. School libraries are there to facilitate the education and learning of the students. They hardly represent a comprehensive inventory of all literary works published. So if a library chooses to not stock a book, is it banning it?  Who picked that book to be stocked in the first place (the description on amazon calls into question the educational merits of the book)? Did it win some awards or something to earn it an inclusion in literature classes?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

jason10mm said:


> Well, it sounds like in the article it WAS parents who initiated the request to withdraw the book from school libraries.


Yes, but it was a subset of parents who took it upon themselves to make that judgement for all the other parents as well.



jason10mm said:


> So if a library chooses to not stock a book, is it banning it? Who picked that book to be stocked in the first place (the description on amazon calls into question the educational merits of the book)? Did it win some awards or something to earn it an inclusion in literature classes?


It may not be the same in all school districts, but around here the school librarians choose what to buy, though given a limited budget they usually can't buy everything they might want. They have to support their choices by documenting the "value" of the book. That's easy to do if the book has won an award or two. If not, they have to find a couple of respected references (like reviews) that support their decision. I'm not a librarian, but a close friend is, and that's how she explained it to me a couple of weeks ago when I asked about this.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

jason10mm said:


> Well, it sounds like in the article it WAS parents who initiated the request to withdraw the book from school libraries. Plus there is a rather extensive review process, and only a few of the schools involved had to physically remove the book.
> 
> This kind of stuff is silly, IMHO. School libraries are there to facilitate the education and learning of the students. They hardly represent a comprehensive inventory of all literary works published. So if a library chooses to not stock a book, is it banning it? Who picked that book to be stocked in the first place (the description on amazon calls into question the educational merits of the book)? Did it win some awards or something to earn it an inclusion in literature classes?


In my opinion, a parent only has the right to monitor what their child reads... not my child.

If a school chooses to not stock a particular book in the library, I'm fine with that. But banning a book usually extends to ensuring that book is not used as assigned reading from a teacher, as well a student cannot select that book as the subject of their book reports etc... Some schools skirt around the issue by not directly stating that a student cannot read that particular book for an assignment, but do say the book they choose has to be one from the school library.


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

DenverRalphy said:


> In my opinion, a parent only has the right to monitor what their child reads... not my child.
> 
> If a school chooses to not stock a particular book in the library, I'm fine with that. But banning a book usually extends to ensuring that book is not used as assigned reading from a teacher, as well a student cannot select that book as the subject of their book reports etc... Some schools skirt around the issue by not directly stating that a student cannot read that particular book for an assignment, but do say the book they choose has to be one from the school library.


This is kinda off topic, but have you heard of the point system for reading? My niece's school had a system where you got points for reading a book and then taking a test about it. The points were based on if it were a fiction book, the level of difficulty (ie was it a kids book w/ lots of pictures or was it a book w/ no pictures and bigger words) and the content. If I'm not mistaken, a child needed so many points to pass. In theory this is a good system to encourage reading, but my niece (who was 13 @ the time and v immature for her age) and her classmates had to read a book in class that was a true story about a young teenage girl who was escaping from a gorrilla attack on her village w/ a baby she had saved. The teacher (according to my niece) picked this really disturbing reading material (for the age group) b/c it had a high number of points (to help those who didn't have enough points) and she was able to find lots of things off the internet about the book (as in worksheets, not articles or anything like that, just easy work). The book really disturbed my niece (even after discussing it w/ her mom who helped her understand a lot of things) and really made my blood boil. If your students aren't reading enough, then assign weekly book reports or something of that nature, not find the easiest book to teach w/ the highest points. Stunts like that could really scare a child away from reading


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

I had a system kind of like that, but it wasn't mandatory. After we read a book from the school's library, we could go to the computer and answer some questions about it. If you got so many right, you would get points based on how difficult the book was, how long it was, etc. The points would add up and at the end of a six weeks period, you could head down to the library with the class and buy things with your points like a radio or a dartboard or stuff like that. But there was no grade attached to it.

All my class-issued reading in grade school was pretty noncontroversial. They were classics, and there were no overly graphic scenes that I can recall ever reading. I prefer teachers assigning classic literature where the writing can be analyzed. I think the main reason why _The Sound and the Fury_ is one of my favourite books is because of the discussions we had.
So I think teachers should stick with safe territory, and I think what children are allowed and not allowed to read should be something each family discusses and not an institution.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> That's exactly the point -- it should be the_ parents_ who judge what is appropriate for their child, not the school district.


But no one is stopping your kids from reading the book. You are free to take them to the public library or a book store. I am not trying to argue of pick on your ideas, it is just I am a very logical person and there seems to be a break in logic to the whole frenzy on "book banning". No one is banning a book, just removing from a school library that services young children. I think both sides are extreme. Both the parents who want books removed because they think they will do irreparable damage to kids and the parents who act as if it will automatically wind up with authors being murdered.

Schools do evaluate everything that is accessible to kids in public school. They dont show rated R movies and no one complains that they are "banning movies". I just dont get it. But after this I will leave it be because I dont want anyone to feel I am trying to fight with them. On the contrary, I would love to understand why it is considered so extreme.


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## ak rain (Nov 15, 2008)

many of you talking past this last year    ...and tango makes three    was banned at a school/library and its an elementary book with penguins as characters. I believe with my 2 kidos if they are old enough to want to read it they can. I hope to keep talking with them so they can ask me questions when they need. I make a display of banned books every year in my library and people are always shocked by what goes up. you can google the top 100 banned books there are web sites on the topic.
sylvia


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

KindleChickie said:


> But no one is stopping your kids from reading the book. You are free to take them to the public library or a book store.


You're quite right. I'd argue that many parents won't care enough to do that, but it's also true that it really doesn't matter whether any one particular child ever reads a specific book or not.



KindleChickie said:


> No one is banning a book, just removing from a school library that services young children. I think both sides are extreme. Both the parents who want books removed because they think they will do irreparable damage to kids and the parents who act as if it will automatically wind up with authors being murdered.


I suspect that the latter group is concerned with the slippery slope of potentially having books removed that deal with _any_ controversial topic. If you look at the list of children's books that have at some point been banned (or removed from libraries), most of the time the reasons given for that "stamp of disapproval" are pathetically thin. Note that these are written as children's books, so making them unavailable could result in eventually having bland cookie-cutter reading material, guaranteed to be inoffensive to everyone. That would also exclude many of the books we remember from childhood, I'm sure.



KindleChickie said:


> Schools do evaluate everything that is accessible to kids in public school. They dont show rated R movies and no one complains that they are "banning movies".


But R-rated movies aren't _made_ for kids. It's more like saying, here we have a bunch of Disney movies that the librarians could stock, but we don't want them buying _this_ one because it deals with a topic some might find uncomfortable.



KindleChickie said:


> I just dont get it. But after this I will leave it be because I dont want anyone to feel I am trying to fight with them. On the contrary, I would love to understand why it is considered so extreme.


I don't want to fight anyone either.  I think "extreme" would be if I were to_ insist_ that _all_ kids read controversial material. It should be up to the parents, in each case. One local school library has a policy that could easily work everywhere, and isn't extreme by any standards: They stock whatever books they consider worthwhile, and the ones that have been flagged as controversial require a parent's written permission to check out. It is also possible at that library to write a blanket letter of permission saying that your child may check out anything he/she wants. (And the next logical step, if that singles out some books too much for some people's tastes, would be to have a child list everything he/she wants to check out, and have a parent sign off on it before the library releases those books. But I sincerely hope it never comes to that.)


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

Let's take a very simple example of one of the most popularly banned books in US schools...

Huckleberry Finn was banned in the late 1800s (at the time it was new) because parents did not like the idea of a white child befriending a black person.

Years later it was banned not because Huck was a friend of a black man, but because it "set a bad example of behavior in our youth." based on the antics of a kid with a wild side (smoking, ditching school, lack of respect for adults etc...)

In the late 1900's (1990 and later) it was banned due to repeated use of derogatory slang terms toward the black race.

Today many schools are banning it (yet again) because it portrays an embarrassing era in US history in which we do not feel our children are capable of understanding.

All those reasons to ban a book, to which anybody who'd actually read and comprehended the book, would know that it's a book about a child who _despite _being brought into the world under the worst of circumstances was able to _overcome _abusive parenting, abysmal living conditions, alcoholism, thievery, severe racism, and anything else you could throw at him. All those examples were portrayed as being morally wrong. By the end of the book, Huck Finn is a better man than many real life people I can name today. The book basically shows everything that is bad in the world, yet demonstrates one persons ability to rise above it.

Ironic isn't it that the book preaches against everything from which book banners believe they are protecting our youth?


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

DenverRalphy said:


> Let's take a very simple example of one of the most popularly banned books in US schools...
> 
> Huckleberry Finn was banned in the late 1800s (at the time it was new) because parents did not like the idea of a white child befriending a black person.
> 
> ...


It is interesting how this book has been repeatedly banned. I remember reading it as a child, but I also knew if I didn't understand something I could ask my parents. Books like Tom Sawyer would be a good teaching experience and a good way to open up a conversation w/ your child.


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## angelad (Jun 19, 2009)

Book banning still happens quite often, the books just get no publicity and no one knows about it.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

back in my public library days, I helped with our banned book display. In addition to the tiles we put out I had a printout of some other titles along with the reason they were banned/challenged. The Americal Library Association still keeps a good list - http://www.ala.org/ala/issuesadvocacy/banned/frequentlychallenged/challengedclassics/reasonsbanned/index.cfm

Even Winnie the Pooh was banned at one point. IIRC the reason I found was because it encouraged youth deliquency.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

mom133d said:


> Even Winnie the Pooh was banned at one point. IIRC the reason I found was because it encouraged youth deliquency.


Either that or because someone thought little kids shouldn't be confronted with mental health issues... I mean, surely Eeyore qualifies as clinically depressed 

Or maybe it was the controversial topic of single motherhood, as portrayed by Kanga and Roo.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Either that or because someone thought little kids shouldn't be confronted with mental health issues... I mean, surely Eeyore qualifies as clinically depressed
> 
> Or maybe it was the controversial topic of single motherhood, as portrayed by Kanga and Roo.


And then there's Tigger with the rather obvious Meth habit ....


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Geoffrey said:


> And then there's Tigger with the rather obvious Meth habit ....


Aren't we forgetting Christopher Robin who thinks his toys are alive?


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Aren't we forgetting Christopher Robin who thinks his toys are alive?


Maybe it was due to the four-letter word "Pooh" on the cover?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Annalog said:


> Maybe it was due to the four-letter word "Pooh" on the cover?


I'm pretty sure it's 'cause of the "relationship" between Pooh and Piglet. . . I seem to recall at least one drawing where _they're holding hands_


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Hahaha!


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Or all the above.


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## Jasmine Giacomo Author (Apr 21, 2010)

I recently saw a list of the top ten banned books by the ALA (American Library Association). #5? Twilight. After laughing uproariously, I looked at the reasons why. Things like "not appropriate subject for age group" and the like, the usual reasons that were listed on pretty much all of the other 9 books as well.

Though if they're expecting a rush of people to come read the banned book now, they're a bit late...everyone who wants to read it already bought it.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I have no problem with a school making the decision to take a book out of their library.  I would have been upset if my child had read a book with graphic sex that he or she had checked out of the school library.  It's just not appropriate IMHO.

I don't see it as book banning.  There are plenty of books the school doesn't carry in their library.  I'd be wondering how it got in there in the first place.

And you all are right, if a kid wants to read something, they'll find it somewhere.  I just don't want my kid surprised by graphic novels in the school library.  To me, it's like pornography.  No one would object to taking away a kid from a father who molests them.  So why not take a book away that describes such acts in detail?

I hope y'all don't hate me now!

P.S. I haven't read the book, just the website talking about what the book contained.  If the website falsely accused the book, I will stand corrected.  But still, even if they took "Horton Hears a Who" out of the library, to me that's still not banning the book.  I'd just go get it from the book store or the public library.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Victorine said:


> I have no problem with a school making the decision to take a book out of their library. I would have been upset if my child had read a book with graphic sex that he or she had checked out of the school library. It's just not appropriate IMHO.


Of course not... and it wouldn't be in a school library in the first place. School librarians choose the books based on appropriateness and usefulness for the grade levels in that school.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Victorine said:


> I hope y'all don't hate me now!


We don't. Unslink.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

*giggle*

It's almost unslinkable!

Vicki


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)




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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

The problem I have with book banning is at the high school level. For younger kids, I can understand limiting their unsupervised access to books that might scare or confuse them. But in high school, students are old enough to start making decisions for themselves and choosing what they want to read. We should be encouraging them to become independent adults, not overprotecting them and deciding what they should and should not read. And although it's a nice idea that if the school bans a book, then the parents can take the kid to a bookstore, but not every parent is going to provide that opportunity and most high school students aren't going to spend their little money on books.


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

I couldn't find this on YouTube, but the slinky commercial made me think of it. So I had to find it. 
http://www.snotr.com/video/228


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Wow, those videos sure took me back!  

As for High Schools deciding on what is in their library, I do support the school's decision.  Now, if the government decided that book was bad and didn't allow it to be sold or to be in public libraries, I would be against that decision.  

Vicki


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

Geoffrey said:


> I oppose banning books by institutions in all instances. It is not a church, a school or a government's place deciding what may and may not be read.


I'll disagree with you in the lone case of the church, assuming the library in question is their own (ie, owned/run by the church itself). One of their mandates is to promote the particular brand of morality espoused by their chosen religion. As they are not publicly funded, they have every right to pick and choose what should/should not be available at their own facility. They have no responsibility to society at large to carry a broad range of material, particularly any that would be in conflict with their established values.

That's this atheist's take, anyway.  Public institutions, I'm with you 100%. It's not their job to decide what people can and can't read. If they want to set standards for what will be included in the children's section, so that books deemed "inappropriate" will simply be moved to the corresponding section in the normal part of the library, I'm ok with that. But the individual borrower is to be the final arbiter of what does and does not constitute worthy reading material.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

geko29 said:


> I'll disagree with you in the lone case of the church, assuming the library in question is their own (ie, owned/run by the church itself). One of their mandates is to promote the particular brand of morality espoused by their chosen religion. As they are not publicly funded, they have every right to pick and choose what should/should not be available at their own facility. They have no responsibility to society at large to carry a broad range of material, particularly any that would be in conflict with their established values.


I don't think he was referring to a church's own library, more so that he doesn't feel the church (a broad term referring to any religious institution) has any right to attempt to influence which books can or cannot be read by the masses. One of the most recent examples being Christian institutions and churches attempting to ban Harry Potter books in public libraries and public schools, which even went as far as book burning.

I too support a church's decision on what is or is not available in their own personal libraries, but the line should be drawn there.


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## Ilovetoread (Apr 4, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Wow, those videos sure took me back!
> 
> As for High Schools deciding on what is in their library, I do support the school's decision. Now, if the government decided that book was bad and didn't allow it to be sold or to be in public libraries, I would be against that decision.
> 
> Vicki


I public high school is a government institute. I am a teacher in a public school, and I am an employee of the State. If my school bans a book in the library, which they have never done, "the government" has banned that book in our library. Our librarian doesn't believe in that and doesn't go there. We have had parents have issues with the fact that we won't ban certain books, like Go Ask Alice , and the librarian is very patient and kind in explaining why that isn't something she can ethically do. She then gives them information on how to talk to their kids about books the parents may not like. The school board has backed the school up in the couple of times it has been necessary.


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## Margaret (Jan 1, 2010)

I am a librarian in a church affiliated elementary school.  I am the one who decides what books to purchase for our library, so I suppose I am the censor.  There are some things I would not buy for OUR library, that is books that are completely against what our church teaches or books with graphic violence, sex, or totally vulgar language.  I do not feel these kinds of books are appropriate for elementary school and since I have a limited budget, there are only some many books I can buy anyway.  I have had complaints from some parents on books that we do have and parents have requested that we remove certain titles from our collection, the Harry Potter books were our most recent controversy.  My stand always has been to tell the parent that they have the right to screen their own child's reading, but not to choose for the whole school.  I make sure that I read every single book that I purchase so that I can defend what we have.  I have also directed students to the public library, when they are interested in exploring a subject considered taboo by our church.  I usually send a note to the parent to say that the child is interested in this subject and suggest that they look into it together.  At the grade school level, I think that parents should have control over what their children are reading.  At the very least they should be aware of it.


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## Jasmine Giacomo Author (Apr 21, 2010)

Margaret said:


> I am a librarian in a church affiliated elementary school. I am the one who decides what books to purchase for our library, so I suppose I am the censor. There are some things I would not buy for OUR library, that is books that are completely against what our church teaches or books with graphic violence, sex, or totally vulgar language. I do not feel these kinds of books are appropriate for elementary school and since I have a limited budget, there are only some many books I can buy anyway. I have had complaints from some parents on books that we do have and parents have requested that we remove certain titles from our collection, the Harry Potter books were our most recent controversy. My stand always has been to tell the parent that they have the right to screen their own child's reading, but not to choose for the whole school. I make sure that I read every single book that I purchase so that I can defend what we have. I have also directed students to the public library, when they are interested in exploring a subject considered taboo by our church. I usually send a note to the parent to say that the child is interested in this subject and suggest that they look into it together. At the grade school level, I think that parents should have control over what their children are reading. At the very least they should be aware of it.


Great post, Margaret. I look at the parents' tendency to shift all the monitoring work onto the schools as shortsighted. Not every family has the exact same values! And they shouldn't! Neither can they possibly be perfectly reflected by a school system, public or private. If everyone's in agreement all the time, then only one person is doing the thinking, and that's never good. I keep reading about some mom or dad going off into histrionics over a single book from their child's school, and then the whole school has to rise to that level to handle it. It's utter nonsense, I say. *adjusts monocle*

My daughter is starting kindergarten in a few months. I've already made up my mind that throughout her scholastic career, I should be the one monitoring what she reads, not anyone else. If she can't find something at the school library, there's a perfectly good county library a few minutes away. Alternately, there's Kindle, Project Gutenberg, etc.  And if the school has something for her to read that for some reason I take issue with, I'll do my best to behave like an adult about it, not an 8-year-old who didn't get a pony at her birthday party. I'd really prefer that my daughter and I remain on good speaking terms throughout her adolescence and teenage years, rather than alienating her because I throw a fit at her teacher for telling her to read _Twilight: The Next Generation - Renesmee Goes Rogue._


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

Jasmine Giacomo said:


> Great post, Margaret. I look at the parents' tendency to shift all the monitoring work onto the schools as shortsighted.


This may be a bit off topic... however I have had many an occasion where this may apply. Let me preface this by stating that I have _always_ monitored and have been a part of my children's upbringing and education. I am always first to monitor what the schools do, or do not do, to direct my children's upbringing.

Whether a parent wishes to accept it or not, a simple fact is that teachers and schools account for the majority of a child's day to day life. In many cases more so when compared to how much time a child spends with their actual parents. There have been many times I was a bit surprised to notice my two boys spend more time with their teachers than I do myself, however there is the added benefit that I can much more easily monitor everything they do in school in lieu of having to personally decide and direct everything they do in school.

Until it is once again culturally acceptable to have a 'housewife' to monitor a child's upbringing, the schools will have to be relied upon to do much more. And as I type this... forgive the 'housewife' remark... more accurately it should be 'house-parent', as should I be in a relationship where the wife was the breadwinner, I have no issues with a 'housefather' concept. My point simply being, a stay at home parent fills a very important role which unfortunately is not seen much in this day and age.


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## caracara (May 23, 2010)

Why should we be banning books when *kids dont read enough*. This seems a bit backwards to me. If someone is an avid reader they will read what they want and discouragment may put them off reading, and if a kid is just reading a book for the *banned* material there are other sources they can go to to get it. Its a pointless gesture, with no positive effects.​


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