# How do you prefer your Vampires?



## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

Do you like them afraid of sunlight or sparkling in the sunlight?  Able to fly or not?  Soulless bloodsuckers or soulful hunks?


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## robertduperre (Jun 13, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Do you like them afraid of sunlight or sparkling in the sunlight? Able to fly or not? Soulless bloodsuckers or soulful hunks?


It depends, really. I love them as bloodthirsty monsters, but I can appreciate the romanticism of a lonely immortal who just wants love.

How's that for a non-answer?


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

over easy with a side of home fries....

but keep 'em out of direct sunlight or they're toast.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Personally?  I like 'em dead.

And, Scarlet, you forgot the medium-rare steak . . . through the heart, of course.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I prefer my vampires in some book I am not reading* or some movie I am not watching. The horror/supernatural genre is generally not my cup of tea to begin with (though I get into some that overlap with the type of sci-fi and/or fantasy I like), and as far as I'm concerned, vampires have been done more than enough already. Authors need to come up with something new, not just a theme and variations on something that someone else created.
_________
* Unless it's Pratchett's _Carpe Jugulum_, of course.


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## Rye (Nov 18, 2008)

NogDog said:


> I prefer my vampires in some book I am not reading* or some movie I am not watching. The horror/supernatural genre is generally not my cup of tea to begin with (though I get into some that overlap with the type of sci-fi and/or fantasy I like), and as far as I'm concerned, vampires have been done more than enough already. Authors need to come up with something new, not just a theme and variations on something that someone else created.
> _________
> * Unless it's Pratchett's _Carpe Jugulum_, of course.


Yeah, what he said!


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## VivianMarie (Jan 9, 2011)

I know it's a craze right now, but I still love the super hot, mysterious, tall-dark-and-handsome vampires who are always in the right place at the right time to save the girl and who can easily snap someone in two... but don't unless they need to.   And, of course, invincible to just about everything except the major plot device.

Damon Salvatore from The Vampire Diaries comes to mind... (Either the books or the TV show, take your pick! Both are perfection.) And Ash from L.J. Smith's Night World series. Those geared toward adult fiction (vs. YA), Eric from the Sookie Stackhouse books is pretty dreamy, right?  

I'm a fangirl. I can't help it.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I liked vampires before they were commonplace.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 13, 2011)

You know what I'd like? A good old fashioned vampire with a Transylvanian accent. Seems like all the vamps these days have ditched castles in Eastern Europe.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

My favorite literary vampires are the vampires in George R.R. Martin's _Fevre Dream_--different enough from humans to be intriguing and scary but with understandable motivations and realistic emotions. I love, absolutely love, the fact that Joshua, the main vampire character, uses his immortality


Spoiler



to conduct scientific studies into substitutes for human blood.


 He's incredibly well-read and even talks about how he met Lord Byron at one point. Martin also manages to convey realistically (Anne Rice does this in some of her vampire books as well) the psychological effects of having to keep secrets all the time, needing to commit violence in order to continue existing, and living for hundreds of years while everything you know and love dies around you. Also, Martin's explanation for vampirism and why it exists makes the most sense of any explanation I've read.

I don't mind vampires who sparkle. What I do mind are vampires who are such masochists that they attend high school over and over and over again . . . are you kidding me? I enjoyed high school, but twenty times over? I don't think so. At least move on to the university level where you can take night courses and maybe learn something interesting. What a waste of immortality. They could be discovering the cure for cancer. Instead, they're in high school.


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

robertduperre said:


> It depends, really. I love them as bloodthirsty monsters, but I can appreciate the romanticism of a lonely immortal who just wants love.
> 
> How's that for a non-answer?


I second this non-answer.
Dawn


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## KatieKlein (Dec 19, 2010)

I like mine sparkly and brooding and sexy. (sigh) With a dangerous side. Obviously.  

I did a comp of vampires in folklore, film, and literature for a myth class in grad school, so I feel qualified to make this personal declaration.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

It's amazing the divide vampires create.  There's a lot of fangirls, but plenty of people that despise the genre entirely.  And yet, the vampire books keep selling.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> It's amazing the divide vampires create. There's a lot of fangirls, but plenty of people that despise the genre entirely. And yet, the vampire books keep selling.


I have very mixed feelings about vampires, Anne Rice's book (I only attempted one) put me to sleep, Barbara Hambly's books were okay but nothing special (finished the first one, but didn't read any more), but Fred Saberhagen's version of Dracula is among my favorite fictional characters ever.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I love vamps the best when they are at their worst.  Guillermo Del Toros The Strain is one of my favs.  And the indy Draculas was a great read. But I have been known to read a few of the "romance" type vamp joints.

I do have to admit that I find most literature that is specifically geared towards women to be dysfunctional, so that may be why I am not as big a fan of some of the stuff.  My biggest pet peeve for the genre is what I calle the big-bad-dog syndrome.  Most of the romance stuff is thinly veiled thug love.  In it, the women are the tamers of the wild beasts, the only one capable of taming the "big-bad-dog" (it reminds me of people who get off on having the meanest dogs possible and insisting they are nothing but puppies in their masterdom).


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## joanhallhovey (Nov 7, 2010)

Being an author and a purist, I like them as Bram Stoker created Dracula.  I loved them in Stephen King's Salem's Lot.

That was one scary book.  

Joan


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## Vianka Van Bokkem (Aug 26, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Do you like them afraid of sunlight or sparkling in the sunlight? Able to fly or not? Soulless bloodsuckers or soulful hunks?


All of the above 

Vianka Van Bokkem


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer (tv show) really got the balance right.

But ultimately, I like them best when they're being hit in the face with a whip by anyone named Belmont.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I read and enjoyed _Dracula_ . . . mostly, I think, as a work of classic fiction


I enjoyed _33 A.D._ -- in my mind it was about way more than just Vampires.


And I recently read and enjoyed _Mozart's Blood_ which is another somewhat different take. . .again not 'about' Vampires, though there are Vampire characters.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NogDog said:


> I prefer my vampires in some book I am not reading* or some movie I am not watching.


This. Scary vampires should inhabit old black-and-white movies shown at 3 AM.

Anne Rice's first vampire book was okay, though after that they got a bit tiresome.

Oh, and the only "fun" vampire: George Hamilton in "Love at First Bite". Total fluff, but cute.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

I haven't read a vampire story or since a vampire movies in years if you exclude a Peter Watts science fiction novel.  Some of the old horror novels were OK but new romantic herod a la Anne Rice just aren't my thing.

And vampires can't fly unless they buy a plane ticket.  If you stop and think about, a flying human living or dead is just too impossible to believe even if you allow for a little magic in the world.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Anne Rice's first vampire book was okay, though after that they got a bit tiresome.


I'll give her through book 3 before I started getting tired of them - even though that never stopped me buying her books ....


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## Jamie Sedgwick (Jan 4, 2011)

I have no interest in vampires that sparkle. I'd have to cast my vote for "The Lost Boys" as the coolest vampires ever. That movie did a great job of modernizing vampire lore, yet keeping them as true predators. There's a scene where they have a feeding frenzy and it's almost like they turn into werewolves. They go nuts with bloodthirst and show themselves to be more than cool kids with trench coats and motorbikes. Then it becomes clear that the clothes and haircuts and motorcycles are really just a modern lure for prey; that they've adapted to the modern world but they're still really just monsters. 

I also enjoyed the novel "I, Vampire." Michael Romkey modernizes the vampire in a way similar to Anne Rice, but retains the mystique of their powers and their separation from mortal society. In his book, new vampires are chosen because of their contributions to society. Great philosophers, scientists, artists... these are the vampire community. Still not as creepy and authentic as Dracula. How can you beat the original?


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

VivianMarie said:


> I know it's a craze right now, but I still love the super hot, mysterious, tall-dark-and-handsome vampires who are always in the right place at the right time to save the girl and who can easily snap someone in two... but don't unless they need to.  And, of course, invincible to just about everything except the major plot device.
> 
> Damon Salvatore from The Vampire Diaries comes to mind... (Either the books or the TV show, take your pick! Both are perfection.) And Ash from L.J. Smith's Night World series. Those geared toward adult fiction (vs. YA), Eric from the Sookie Stackhouse books is pretty dreamy, right?
> 
> I'm a fangirl. I can't help it.


I have to admit I like them best this way as well. 
I don't necessarily want them to sparkle in the sun or even be able to be in the sun but I really do like the bad boy with a heart of gold image.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

R. Doug said:


> Personally? I like 'em dead.
> 
> And, Scarlet, you forgot the medium-rare steak . . . through the heart, of course.


No, I mentioned that in a PM.

Honestly, I like them either as soulless killers or as conflicted cursed beings. But they do NOT sparkle. And anyone who changes a teenager into a vampire needs to be staked.


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## KerylR (Dec 28, 2010)

Written by Joss Wheedon!  Preferably acted by James Marsters.   

Beyond that, if they're going to be point of view/main characters, I like them content and fairly unconflicted.  

I don't want to spend time in the head of a whiny perpetual adolescent.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I wanted to add, I also enjoy the different ideas authors come up with to explain the curse of vampires.  The best one was it started with Judas betrayal of Jesus, I think I saw that in Dracula 2000 or something?


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## James Roy Daley (Dec 10, 2010)

I like 'em scary.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Actually, I like Chelsea Quinn Yarbo's St. Germaine, but my favorite book is not yet on kindle.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> I'll give her through book 3 before I started getting tired of them - even though that never stopped me buying her books ....


Yeah, me neither. Got 'em all. Haven't read the last three or four yet, though. My favorite was the one about the Mayfair witches -- even though the part with the rolled-up rug gave me a nightmare.



KerylR said:


> I don't want to spend time in the head of a whiny perpetual adolescent.


Unfortunately that applies to _way_ too many books and movies...


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

I'd have to agree that Joss Whedon's take on vampires works best for me.  No sunlight, no entering homes without an invitation, and for th most part soulless (unless they've won back their soul)


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## beckyj20 (Jun 12, 2010)

MLPMom said:


> I have to admit I like them best this way as well.
> I don't necessarily want them to sparkle in the sun or even be able to be in the sun but I really do like the bad boy with a heart of gold image.


Agreed! Although I will take them anyway I can get them! One of my favorite things about reading vampire books is how the author puts a spin on the legends. I know that sparkly vampires are a little cheesy, but it was a very interesting way of explaining why they couldn't go into direct sunlight.


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## totalwreak (Sep 28, 2010)

J.A. Konrath, Jeff Strand
Suckers.


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## lisarusczyk (Jan 16, 2011)

I will never love vampires like the vampires in Anne Rice's Vampire books.


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

I don't get the current fascination with vampires. Today, 2011, if a creature goes around sucking blood it will be soon be deceased, even if it was already dead. And what woman in her right mind would fall for a creature, no matter how handsome and charming, who she knows drinks blood? All the eligible men in the world and she falls for something with pointed incisors that cannot step out in the daytime. Please! In the old movies, vampires were pretty smart; they didn't bite any-old-body off the street. Their victims were usually virgins with easily accessible windows.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

jhendereson said:


> Their victims were usually virgins with easily accessible windows.


I thought our few remaining virgins were kept away from windows specifically because of the vampire virgin apocalypse of the mid 20th Century ....


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## MG_London (Oct 21, 2010)

*Disturbed Porphyrics*


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## India Drummond (Nov 1, 2010)

Vampires should be scary predators, IMO.

I know a lot of folks like the romantic vampires these days, but I find the idea of romance with the dead just nasty, and I've never been able to get into it, even though I love other urban fantasy/paranormal.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2011)

Vampires are sentient, animated corpses that feed on the energies (usually blood) of the living.  Throughout history, there have been types of vampires that did walk about during the day.  There is even a Eastern European myth about a type of vampire that could engulf itself in flames and was immune to fire.  Whether or not the vampire is attractive is not the issue.  Whether or not it goes about during the day is not the issue.  The primary point of a vampire is that it sees humans as FOOD, and seeks to sustain itself on humans.  This is the root problem I have with the entire paranormal romance sub-genre.  They treat vampirism like it is just another human species with a long life and sun allergy.  It completely disregards the fact that you are dealing with an animated corpse, hungry for blood and seeing every human as food.  If you are just going to treat vampires like a slightly advanced human, then you disregard the essence of the vampire itself.


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## JennaAnderson (Dec 25, 2009)

I like all kinds of vampire fiction and characters but there are a few rules that need to be followed: they can't tolerate sunlight, no eating of real food and they are, deep down, uncontrollable monsters. I generally will stop reading if there is an angelic vampire eating spaghetti. 

Vampires = dead cannibals on a liquid diet. 

~ Jenna


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## MeloniePhillips (Jan 13, 2011)

Quinn Blackwood... *Swoon* that was my first vampire crush, even though I did like Lewis and Lestat.  Eric from the Sookie books, much more than Bill, and Damon much more than Stefan.  I liked the Twilight series of course, but all these others I mentioned much more.  Oh I see a trend I like vampire bad boys!


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

MeloniePhillips said:


> Quinn Blackwood... *Swoon* that was my first vampire crush, even though I did like Lewis and Lestat. Eric from the Sookie books, much more than Bill, and Damon much more than Stefan. I liked the Twilight series of course, but all these others I mentioned much more. Oh I see a trend I like vampire bad boys!


I've heard that a bunch. That vampires are the new James Dean of pop culture. Like the guy from high school that drove a motorcycle that your parents didn't want you to date.


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## MeloniePhillips (Jan 13, 2011)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> I've heard that a bunch. That vampires are the new James Dean of pop culture. Like the guy from high school that drove a motorcycle that your parents didn't want you to date.


I loved Anne Rice for years, I never had a dream about a vampire until Quinn Blackwood, in my dream he was just sitting around hanging out in my bed while I was sleeping, and whispering to me in my sleep. When I woke I had no clue what about. And Eric in book four oh that was wonderful. I am currently reading the books about the Vampire Diaries that aren't written by LJ. Smith, Origins and Bloodlust, sort of a tie in to the show. In these books its explaining how everything took place during the civil war etc. They are supposed to go along with the novels, but the whole plot line is different and doesn't follow what LJ Smith wrote. I guess we readers aren't supposed to remember It didn't happen during the civil war, and Katherine staged her death. (OK yes I do love Vampires!)


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## Cameron_Hughes (Jan 21, 2011)

I like my vampires completely fictional.


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## Talia Jager (Sep 22, 2010)

Sparkly. Yeah, I'm a TwilightMom. I also like them in The Vampire Diaries (the show, not so much the books, but I've only read 2 of them so far). Sookie Stackhouse has some good vampires too. I do not like to be scared or grossed out, so it took a long time for a friend to convince me to read any of these. I'm so grateful she didn't give up.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

You know you're middle-aged when you find both Barnabas Collins and Bella Swan hot!


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

JennaAnderson said:


> I generally will stop reading if there is an angelic vampire eating spaghetti.


But that would be a funny story! Imagine a vampire who doesn't really want to be one... who loves all kinds of pasta... liberally laced with garlic, even... of course he's shunned by the other vampires for his disgusting aberration... I can visualize him now, eating pesto spaghetti in an open-air piazza in Venice... or maybe if it's set in Rome, the Vatican could somehow be dragged into the plot... and his dream is to go to New York and open an Italian restaurant, but of course since he's dead he can't get a passport....

.... okay, maybe I shouldn't have had that glass of wine earlier.


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

I would say I didn't like the old fashioned take on scary, monstrous vampires when I was a kid. I got suckered into vampire books with Anne Rice in the early 90s. I didn't really see "The Lost Boys" until the 90s. Her new take on vampires gave new life to the vampire myth. 

I think Stephanie Meyers has done a similar thing, but I prefer more of the Anne Rice vision than Stephanie. Sparkling skin kinda bugged me as a description when I read it, and it was hard to picture. Loved the whole Buffy the Vampire world and the soap opera take that is hitting vampire books now. 

I've always thought of them as predators as opposed to monsters. The seductive tension between vampires and their prey is also a main part of a good vampire character. I always love the tortured guilty vampire conscience like Louis or Nick Knight in "Forever Knight". Most of all, vampires suck blood. If there isn't some kind of that going on, it isn't a vampire story.


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## Shellybean (Apr 22, 2009)

The Lost Boys in struck vampire love in my 13 year old heart (not to mention my love for Kiefer Sutherland!) I read all the classic vampire stories I could find and the I discovered Anne Rice. They are still my favorite but I can't resist Angel (though I can live without Buffy) or Sookie's vamps and the Sparkly ones have their appeal (but I like the wolves more and I'd rather die than be considered a Twilight mom). 

I'll take them all scary mindless monsters to brooding eternal teens and everything in between. It's been a 24 year long phase for me and I doubt it will end anytime soon. lol


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## Shellybean (Apr 22, 2009)

Oh! I forgot the Dark Shadows vamps! both the originals and the early '90's remake. I remember watching it with my mom every week my senior year of high school.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Shellybean said:


> Oh! I forgot the Dark Shadows vamps! both the originals and the early '90's remake. I remember watching it with my mom every week my senior year of high school.


Well, get ready for yet another return. This time Barnabas Collins will be played on the big screen by Johnny Depp.

Now THAT'S one vampire story I'm eagerly anticipating.


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## dltanner99 (Sep 9, 2010)

I am one of the hosts of Animal Planet's "Lost Tapes" series, and I did an episode on the Strigoi, the Romanian vampires of legend. Bram Stoker even took liberties with what they look like, who they victimized, and how you kill them. "Dracula" should have been a redhead with two hearts. Still, I really gotta wonder at the genre of Paranormal Romance, when there is oftentimes virtually nothing but creative license taken to the point of fantasy, to sell a story. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the incredible success that those who write in it are having, but my research doesn't have me reaching for "Twilight". There are still people in parts of the world terrified by unexplained phenomena, and that will ever be the true paranormal.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

dltanner99 said:


> I am one of the hosts of Animal Planet's "Lost Tapes" series...


OK, please don't take this the wrong way... but why the cheesy "reenactment" videos? I like the general concept of the show, but the "Paranormal Activity"-style re-enactments are just a turn-off for me. Mostly because it seems the show tries to sell them as "real." Or maybe I missed something...



dltanner99 said:


> ..."Dracula" should have been a redhead with two hearts...


So, he was Tom Baker's Doctor Who, then?  Or at least Colin Baker's? 

Actually, I think we're close to being on the same page on this topic, though. I'm not wild about where Steph Meyer took the vampire genre. I thought Joss Whedon had the balance just about right, because although Buffy lusted over Angel and, eventually, Spike... Whedon never let the viewer forget just how incredibly dangerous his vamps were.

I like vampires who are menaces. I'm not opposed to some gray-area vamps, they don't have to be pure evil... but I mean Edward never even TRIES to bite Bella... until they are married! (The TWILIGHT series borders on being a commercial for Mormonism. Nothing wrong with that, but... there it is.)

The perfect vampire would be: Justin Bieber... (meaning, someone so truly and deeply evil, you feel no hesitation about the whole "stake through the heart" bit... LOL)


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

Anne Rice's version of the vampire is my favourite portrayal.

I'm not a fan of the sparkly, or teen version that has gained popularity of late. The Southern Vampires though are not a bad version.


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

I loved Dark Shadows and that really shaped a lot of my "thought" about vampires. I prefer them to be mostly evil or angst ridden like Barnabas, who initially was pure evil but evolved into someone who retained that dreadful side and we suffer with him and his desire to be free of the curse.

What I could never "believe" or get into were the "good" vampires who refrained from sucking human blood and went to creatures like rats. Wouldn't that leave the world littered with little vampire rats, dogs, cats, and cows?   

In any event, for me, I like vampires to be largely evil and stand in the role of the bad guy to be vanquished. Otherwise they're just people who live a long time and have fangs.


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## John Hartness (Aug 3, 2009)

I've gotten bored with the broody ones, now I like the snarky ones. Christopher Moore has written a couple of fun vampire books, and I kinda followed his lead with mine. Young guys that weren't hot when they were alive didn't suddenly become studs when they became soulless bloodsucking freaks with SPF3,000. Joss Whedon might have been a little bit of an influence, too.


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## Harry Shannon (Jul 30, 2010)

The nasty and manipulative ones, mostly. My three favorite vampire novels remain Salem's Lot, Interview with a Vampire and George R.R. Martin's Fevre Dream.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Since I don't really like Horror and such things much outside some Stephen King, I read vampire stuff within the romance genre. So PNR. Its not my favorite genre, that is Historical Romance, but I do enjoy them. I do not like YA and teenage type novels at all. Just adult PNR. 
So I like some humanity within the beast if you will. 

Since its all fiction anyway, all forms of vampires are valid just the same. Just depends on what one likes.
Just because one likes the scary unredeemable monster type vampire, doesn't mean there is anything wrong about others liking brooding, romantic or teenage vampires. 
They can all have incredible stories and plot lines if they are written right. No one genre is any less or more vapid than the other. There is quality to be found it all, just like there is crap to be found in all. 

Its all just a matter of taste, nothing else.


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## TerryB (Jan 5, 2011)

I prefer them peroxide blonde, in long leather dusters and answer to the name "Spike".  Oh - and it helps if James Marsters was the actor who portrayed your sexy self...  

I like most vampire stories.  Always have.


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## Belle2Be (Aug 29, 2010)

I love 'em hot and unobtainable, much like Erik of True Blood ( or rather the Sookie Stackhouse series)


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

with a silver stake through their hearts!


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

I prefer the ones that don't come out after sunrise and stay in their  coffins during the  day.  Don't get this  "Vampire goes to  school" stuff.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Amy Corwin said:


> I loved Dark Shadows and that really shaped a lot of my "thought" about vampires. I prefer them to be mostly evil or angst ridden like Barnabas, who initially was pure evil but evolved into someone who retained that dreadful side and we suffer with him and his desire to be free of the curse.


How could I forget about Barnabas I had a purpley-black koi once I named Barnabas in honor of Dark Shadows.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> with a silver stake through their hearts!


Wooden stake. I'm old school... writers who confuse werewolf and vamp mythology irritate me... (my sole complaint against Charlaine Harris...)


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## Belle2Be (Aug 29, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> with a silver stake through their hearts!


At which point said Vampire pulls out the stake, laughs and eats you. But before he does, since he's the antagonist and all, he goes on and on about how you should've used a wooden one if you wanted to kill him. This may or may not give you enough time to be rescued


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2011)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Wooden stake. I'm old school... writers who confuse werewolf and vamp mythology irritate me... (my sole complaint against Charlaine Harris...)


Now, now...vampires and werewolves were commonly linked together in Eastern European lore, and in some myths silver is just as lethal to a vampire as a werewolf.

And in some cultures, it can't just be any old wooden stake. Some say it has to be from an ash tree. Others from a rowan tree. Some tell you it has to be from a tree that grows in a cemetary. Better know what TYPE of vampire you are hunting to make sure you have the right gear!

Or, what if you are fighting a vrykolakas? Imagine being in a fight with one on a Tuesday night, staking it, and it laughs at you and says "Sorry, dude, I can only be destroyed on Saturdays..."


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## dltanner99 (Sep 9, 2010)

Then you'll be happy to hear that Tim Burton and Johnny Depp are teaming for the umpteenth time to redo "Dark Shadows". Here is the scuttle:
http://screencrave.com/2010-11-04/tim-burton-and-johnny-depps-dark-shadows-pushed-to-april-2011/


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

A vampire is, within the context of that story, whatever the author says a vampire is. Personally, I'm rather "old school" on vampires, but conventions were meant to be stood on their head. The problem is that the radical new take on something pretty soon becomes the new cliche. The vampire as an old-fashioned monster would be a refreshing change of pace from the hunky heartthrob vampire, which has become rather cliche.

It's sort of like dragons. Dragons used to be the ultimate monster. Then someone broke the convention by making dragons into noble, kind and wise creatures. That's fine, but everyone began to do that.


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## Annalinde Matichei (Jan 23, 2011)

The wisdom of (some) dragons is quite traditional, at least in the East.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Annalinde Matichei said:


> The wisdom of (some) dragons is quite traditional, at least in the East.


That's where it gets sticky. We choose to use the same word "dragon" to describe both the western and the eastern concepts, but it is not so clear that these are the same thing at all. I remember having a foreign exchange student from Japan, and the topic of slaying a dragon came up, and this was a totally alien concept to him.

I think that slaying the dragon (the western dragon, that is) got overused to the point of being a cliche. You had all kinds of parodies, the bored knight who has a things to do list: Have breakfast, slay a dragon, have lunch, slay a dragon, pick up the mail, slay a dragon, and so on. The impact of the feat of slaying a dragon was lost in it being overused.

So, along comes different conceptions of the dragons, not as the most dangerous creature you could ever meet, but as wise, kindly creatures. Everything comes around again, the time gets right for the old school to be tried.


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## Annalinde Matichei (Jan 23, 2011)

Dragons are, ultimately an aspect of the symbolism of snakes (or perhaps better, dragons and snakes are part of the same family of Archeytpes). Wagner refers to the dragon Fafnir as "der wilde Wurm" (I know it isn't quite the same in German, but don't you just love the idea of a wild worm?)

Snakes have always had a dual nature, wise and wicked - hence the dual-snakes of the caduceus and many other traditional symbolisms. However in the recent West (talking centuries-recent here) it has been the dark side of snakes that has dominated the imagination. Even so, there is nothing un-Western or un-Christian about wise snakes. Jesus advises disciples to be "wise as serpents".

Just as the West has tended to concentrate on the evil serpent, it has also concentrated on the evil dragon - the spiritual adversary that must be slain in order to progress.

So I am thinking the evil/wise dragon dichotomy is a close relation to the evil/wise snake dichotomy and has deep archetypal roots - and also that the relatively recent (until absolutely recently) concentration of the west on the darker side of both is similarly related, and tells us something about the modern Western psyche.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Now, now...vampires and werewolves were commonly linked together in Eastern European lore, and in some myths silver is just as lethal to a vampire as a werewolf.
> 
> And in some cultures, it can't just be any old wooden stake. Some say it has to be from an ash tree. Others from a rowan tree. Some tell you it has to be from a tree that grows in a cemetary. Better know what TYPE of vampire you are hunting to make sure you have the right gear!
> 
> Or, what if you are fighting a vrykolakas? Imagine being in a fight with one on a Tuesday night, staking it, and it laughs at you and says "Sorry, dude, I can only be destroyed on Saturdays..."


Good points... but then, I'm the wrong gender to be Buffy's successor anyway, LOL...


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

The dragon may be cousin to the snake, but has diverged enough that it is a thing in its own right. One of the aspects of a dragon is _power_, the Order of the Dragon was an order of Crusaders, and the dragon is on the Welsh flag. Putting aside the idea of the evil dragon for a moment, one aspect of the dragon-slaying stories involved going up against the most difficult opponent imaginable. I'm not saying that all dragons should be portrayed as evil, but the trend has been heavily in the favor of portrying dragons as good - the dual nature of dragons as wise and wicked is lost of they are only shown as wise.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Good points... but then, I'm the wrong gender to be Buffy's successor anyway, LOL...


You could always be like Spike or Angel though and be a good guy vampire with a soul though.


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## Annalinde Matichei (Jan 23, 2011)

But I don't think _all_ dragons are wicked. The Welsh dragon and the Chinese Imperial dragon are not symbols of evil - but, as you suggest, of power.


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## 16205 (Jun 8, 2010)

I like them both ways (though the sparkle or whatever it is, no).  I adore dark, scary things, but I'm also very intrigued by stories where they struggle with their own humanity/morals and whatever else makes them tick.


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## tsilver (Aug 9, 2010)

With a stake through the heart,


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

Danielle Bourdon said:


> I like them both ways (though the sparkle or whatever it is, no). I adore dark, scary things, but I'm also very intrigued by stories where they struggle with their own humanity/morals and whatever else makes them tick.


I guess the debate is whether vampires have humanity/morals or are soulless bloodsuckers.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Annalinde Matichei said:


> But I don't think _all_ dragons are wicked. The Welsh dragon and the Chinese Imperial dragon are not symbols of evil - but, as you suggest, of power.


Whether a given power is good or evil depends on which end of the sword is pointed your way.  It depends on whose perspective the story is seen from. I'm not saying that all dragons should be seen as wicked either, but when stories all start moving one way, it's time for the pendulum to swing back.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> I don't mind vampires who sparkle. *What I do mind are vampires who are such masochists that they attend high school over and over and over again . . . are you kidding me?* I enjoyed high school, but twenty times over? I don't think so. At least move on to the university level where you can take night courses and maybe learn something interesting. What a waste of immortality. They could be discovering the cure for cancer. Instead, they're in high school.


That got a guffaw out of me  In fairness to the Cullens, though, they do attend college. Apparently the cycle is a couple of years of high school, full university stint for 4-5 years, rinse and repeat.

That said, I agree with someone upthread - it depends on what genre I'm expecting. I'm okay with soulless blood-suckers if watching horror, and also all right with immortal hunks that are just too sexy for their own good 

Thanks for the heads-up on the GRRM book, too, Purple. I'll have to check it out


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> This is the root problem I have with the entire paranormal romance sub-genre.


Because every paranormal has vampires as part of the story line...


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## Heather Hildenbrand (Jan 4, 2011)

I guess I have to label myself a groupie. I'm a sucker for a great vamp story. And I do like the brooding, almost-bad-boy-but-deep-down-romantic kind of vampire character. Whoever mentioned Damen from Vampire Diaries... YES! I have to second that. They do need to have a sinister side and his character nails it with the balance of sarcasm and deeply-buried desire to be loved. Great character!


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## Annalinde Matichei (Jan 23, 2011)

QuantumIguana said:


> Whether a given power is good or evil depends on which end of the sword is pointed your way.  It depends on whose perspective the story is seen from. I'm not saying that all dragons should be seen as wicked either, but when stories all start moving one way, it's time for the pendulum to swing back.


How true! However there can be some "friendly dragon" approaches can take the whole thing to excess. A recent book called _Dancing with Dragons_ suggests that voices we hear in our heads may be our "guardian dragons" - which apparently we all have - which certainly has me reaching for the salt cellar (which is a pleonasm by the way, just like "dog kennel" but I am sure y'all will forgive me).

Having said that I do want to clarify that while I have talked about the symbolism of dragons, that does not at all imply that I don't believe dragons exist(ed). I believe all real beings are symbolic and that their _raison d'être_ is to be sought in their symbology rather than their biology.


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## Dan McGirt (Sep 25, 2010)

Vampires:  Kill 'em, don't Kiss 'em!


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## Vianka Van Bokkem (Aug 26, 2010)

Dan McGirt said:


> Vampires: Kill 'em, don't Kiss 'em!


           

Vianka Van Bokkem


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## LaFlamme (Dec 9, 2010)

Over easy.
Not sparkling.


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