# little things that irritate me



## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

The last two books I read had some really annoying sentence structure and grammar errors throughout the books. Here are a few examples:

The kid sharp is enough  he might actually know how....

...but to the simple fact that she would be up and back in the camper before I'd be able to get to words out

All day, I couldn't fix on anything other than the though to confronting Jenks with what we knew...

Over margaritas, I explained how we had originally got ten  together.

In the last example, no she isn't talking about ten people. It should be one word - gotten.

The first two are forgivable because they were from a new author who offered the book for free. But the author should still be aware of these types of errors. There were several others throughout the book too.

The last two shown above are from a very well known author so I was pretty surprised. There were other errors throughout that book as well.

Is this a formatting issue, or are these things that likely appear in the paperback versions too?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

I suspect it's a formatting problem.  I have a book on Kindle that I've also read in paper, and the paper version had none of the (many) errors that the Kindle version has.  (I guess you can't call them typos on a Kindle...  is there a word for them?  Other than "irritating"?)

Some books are flawless; others have errors like this on every page.  Does anyone know why that is?  Someone mentioned that the scanning and OCR technology is to blame, but then why do some classics not have a single error?

It bugs me enough that the frequency of errors in samples will help to determine whether I buy something or not.  For me, the flow of reading is interrupted every time.


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## Kilgore Trout (Dec 28, 2008)

The error could arise from either cause. As an author I have personally been trying to learn as much as I can about such issues. An example I recently found in one of my own books is this. I published an itemized list of ten sentences. The list appears to be correct as #1-10 in the actual file of the book submitted to the Kindle system, but the Kindle version of the book shows the list of ten to be #'s 1-4, and 5-10 continue as #4 over and over again. The numbered content is correct, just as in the printed version of the book. It is only the 5-10 digits that have been affected. I have yet to figure out why this happened or how to fix it. One of the best things about Kindle is that we can repair mistakes, and as a conscientious author, I hope to discover how to repair this one in the future. There are many details about Kindle publishing that we are all still trying to learn. At least I am only charging $1.60 for my books this week! Thank you.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

It is important for every author who publishes on the Kindle to view their book on the kindle or make arrangements with someone else to do so. Many of the print authors who launch Kindle version and do not own kindles ask us kindle author/owners to check out their formatting. Many of these authors (from print) do not own the electronic rights and thus are at the mercy of traditional or small press publishing houses, who do what they want to do. I, personally, do my last and final editing and proofing, after receiving the final edits from my editor, on the Kindle and use highlights and notes to catch formatting, actual and malapropriate . I don't (and no author or editor does) catch 100% of the errors. The best we hope for is 99%. One of the advantages of being an Indie author using the Kindle for eBook and CreateSpace (POD) for print is that we can issue new revisions without cost or much fuss. I keep a running list of any errors found within my books found by reviewers or other authors and especially readers. Then, I will issue a maintenance update to the manuscript and refresh it. All the titles need refreshing at times as my list of titles grow and I'd like to keep a current list of all my books in the frontispiece of my works. It is also handy with my one nonfiction work - "Are You Still Submitting Your Work to a Traditional Publisher?," a work for Indie authors and wannabes and a manual on how to publish on the Kindle and to Amazon's CreateSpace POD, plus several essays on attitude and revisions - handy because "things change," and I can update the work with the latest internet methods and available tools.

I urge any reader who finds formatting or other errors in an author's work to send an email to that author for their reference. A messy manuscript, which should never be published regardless of writing quality, should of course be publicly reviewed, but a good work with a few boo-boos is worthy of a quiet, "loved your novel, but found that the word pale was misused and should have been pail - a pail is a bucket, but pale is not even a noun," type of thing, is much appreciated.

Edward C. Patterson
author of lots of stuff


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## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> (I guess you can't call them typos on a Kindle... is there a word for them? Other than "irritating"?)


Yeah, I didn't know _what_ to call it. But I do know it can be irritating, so the word seemed to fit at the moment. Most books I've read (and there are many in the short time I've had my Kindle!!) aren't bad as far as this type of issue is concerned. But the last two I read seemed to have a lot of these problems. The last book even had one sentence that was so bad I had to read it several times before it made sense. Along with confusing word structure, part of that sentence had a series of 4 numbers that I figured out was supposed to be an apostrophe.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Laurie said:


> All day, I couldn't fix on anything other than the though to confronting Jenks with what we knew...


Kim Harrison?


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## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

edwpat said:


> It is important for every author who publishes on the Kindle to view their book on the kindle or make arrangements with someone else to do so. Many of the print authors who launch Kindle version and do not own kindles ask us kindle author/owners to check out their formatting. Many of these authors (from print) do not own the electronic rights and thus are at the mercy of traditional or small press publishing houses, who do what they want to do. I, personally, do my last and final editing and proofing, after receiving the final edits from my editor, on the Kindle and use highlights and notes to catch formatting, actual and malapropriate . I don't (and no author or editor does) catch 100% of the errors. The best we hope for is 99%. One of the advantages of being an Indie author using the Kindle for eBook and CreateSpace (POD) for print is that we can issue new revisions without cost or much fuss. I keep a running list of any errors found within my books found by reviewers or other authors and especially readers. Then, I will issue a maintenance update to the manuscript and refresh it. All the titles need refreshing at times as my list of titles grow and I'd like to keep a current list of all my books in the frontispiece of my works. It is also handy with my one nonfiction work - "Are You Still Submitting Your Work to a Traditional Publisher?," a work for Indie authors and wannabes and a manual on how to publish on the Kindle and to Amazon's CreateSpace POD, plus several essays on attitude and revisions - handy because "things change," and I can update the work with the latest internet methods and available tools.
> 
> I urge any reader who finds formatting or other errors in an author's work to send an email to that author for their reference. A messy manuscript, which should never be published regardless of writing quality, should of course be publicly reviewed, but a good work with a few boo-boos is worthy of a quiet, "loved your novel, but found that the word pale was misused and should have been pail - a pail is a bucket, but pale is not even a noun," type of thing, is much appreciated.
> 
> ...


None of the books I quoted from were yours, but I'm happy to hear that authors are not always aware of the problems and are open to hearing about them in order to make corrections. The intent of my post wasn't to be insulting to any of the writers, I was just pointing out an issue I found a little bothersome in the books I was reading. Like I said in a previous post, most of the books I've read haven't had many issues at all. The last two sort of made up for them though!


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## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

Forster said:


> Kim Harrison?


James Patterson


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## meljackson (Nov 19, 2008)

Yes, that stuff bugs me too. Another thing that bugs me is Danielle Steel and the way she overuses words like profound and extraordinary and starts too many sentences with "and". Her newer books just aren't that great either.

Melissa


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## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

meljackson said:


> Yes, that stuff bugs me too. Another thing that bugs me is Danielle Steel and the way she overuses words like profound and extraordinary and starts too many sentences with "and". Her newer books just aren't that great either.
> 
> Melissa


Danielle Steel used to be my favorite - way back with her earlier books. Then the books just got so tedious to read - she could go on for 5 pages describing a dress - and I lost all interest. Recently I've tried reading some of her books again and I didn't enjoy them at all.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Laurie:

I don't think any author would take what you said as insulting. And these things _should_ irritate you. Authors must put the reader first, and sometimes I catch things that will throw my reader clean out of the story. I had one in The Jade Owl, when it was in beta-test (I beta-test some of my works, and in the acknowledgements of The Jade Owl I list every one of my beta-readers), that not only would have thrown the reader out of the scene, but would make them laugh at me as a numbskull. In that passage, the protagonist is warning his cohorts not to touch the Butterflies, because they are actually metallic and dangerous flanges. He shouts at them: "Butterflies?" and then tells them to "Duck." Well, all my beta-readers got a good laugh at Patterson's "Butterflies? Duck." I got, couldn't you make up your mind? and Is that a new type of bird, the Butterfly Duck.

BTW, I knew it wasn't one of my errors. My errors are trademark. Ask my editor who needs to correct the word past/passed every time I use it. "I'm leaving that up to you," I tell her, because I give up. I rely on her to do some of it. he he.

And lastly, my brother's name is James Patterson. He doesn't write, and rarely reads, but he once urged me, for marketing considerations to "change your name to your brother's and they'll beat a path to your door." The thought never crossed my mind. If I can't get my own "beat," I don't deserve the door.

Edward C. Patterson
author of stuff (lots of stuff)


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Laurie said:


> James Patterson


lol, I saw the Jenks and didn't figure there would be too many books that would have a Jenks character.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Forster said:


> lol, I saw the Jenks and didn't figure their would be too many books that would have a Jenks character.


I thought the same thing, Forster! LOL!

Betsy


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Edwpat, I'm glad to read your ideas here. I review many of the kindle books I read. And I include format issues, both positive and negative. I will admit I've never contacted the authors because it seemed "stalker-ish" (forgive my making up my own words).  I do contact Amazon with format issues.  I tell them about typos, but I don't refer to typos in reviews because I only comment negatively on  format issues if it makes reading unpleasant or in some cases near impossible.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I thought the same thing, Forster! LOL!
> 
> Betsy


Right there with you.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Red:

A good Kindle author will give you their email address in the context of the ebook. I include my email address in every book I publish, Kindle and print version. I guess if you were to try to correct Stephen King, he might think "stalker," he he. Never thought of that. Amazon may do something about formatting. I didn't think they did, as it's the publisher's responsibility. However, I stood corrected here on Kindleboards with some posters who said they have contacted Amazon and have seen changes, or have gotten something other than the templated response. If you can tell the author, especially if they are an Indie author, do it. Especially if it's me. I want MORE contact with my readers, not less. How else will I know whether I've done my job, _nes pas_?

Edward C. Patterson


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Amazon usually tells me they pass the information on to the publisher, who, I guess, is supposed to pass it on to the authors. Some of the books have been fixed, some haven't.  I'll try the author if I have problems again.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I recently purchased _Miss Julia Delivers the Goods_, published by a major house. There are 4-6 spaces between quite a few paragraphs, and because of full justification (I'm assuming), a lot of sentences only have a few words on a line.

I didn't think about contacting the publisher, so thanks for the reminder.

I've had problems with print books, too. The middle of a sentence might switch to the middle of a sentence two paragraphs down, and then resume normally.

Not all indy authors have access to a good proof-reader or editor, so I go along with Ed, let the author know. They'll appreciate being able to make the corrections.

There are scammers out there. Agents and publishers would refer an author to a particular indy editor. This editor (not just a proof-reader) would kick-back to the agent or publisher, and then charge the author upwards of $5,000, whether or not they made any changes or corrections.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I am fortunate. My editor is so dedicated to me she works for free (well, for books and dinners), but she believes in me and she crackerjack (and I dedicated Turning Idolater to her, because its her favorite book). 

Extra spacing is caused by the Kindle conversion not liking 2 carriage returns in a row, but some publishers don;t know this. Other major formatting tripwire are using "tabs" instead of style indents. But I don;t want to get too technical. The justification bothers me. I refuse to justify my book, because its an old habit going back to the cold-type days to save money. Now that hand setting is gone, the old format persists, and the optics of reading a justified line is harder than a ragged left line. I ragged left all my titles, even in print, where some publishers would go "shame, shame." (Well m shame, shame on them.)

Anyway, some Kindle books force justification preventing me from taking it of in the Kindle's function. I have suggested to author friends that they should not hard code justification in their works so readers can make it easier to read through left-justification. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Sometimes the problems with justification can be overcome by changing the font size.  

Actually, I have found very few problems, considering the amount I read.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

Laurie said:


> The last two books I read had some really annoying sentence structure and grammar errors throughout the books. Here are a few examples:
> 
> The kid sharp is enough  he might actually know how....
> 
> ...


All right...I'll bite. Those first two were not from a new writer and not from a free book; indeed, they were from someone who has been writing for over 25 years, anyone who has a copy paid between $1.49 and $14.95, and the book was formatted for the Kindle directly from a post-print-publication PDF file.

That's a major headache anyway you look at it, and lots of formatting mistakes got through.

I am aware of several errors in the word structure and formatting in all of my books, but I am not aware of _all_ the errors. Face it, when you've read something at least 30 times you just don't see the mistakes anymore, and if they're not caught on the publisher's end, then they don't get caught. They go to print, they stay in print...and years later they wind up on the Kindle, because the author is still not going to realize they're there for the same reasons the errors got through the first time around; your brain goes numb after the 10th reading, and is pretty much dead by the final draft.

Trust me, I was not happy to find several errors in my work, especially when I've noted errors in every books I've written. Some errors are formatting mistakes that occurred in conversion, other mistakes are pretty stupid and were simply overlooked along the way. They're jarring and take the reader out of the story; for that I apologize. Proofing is not foolproof, and in my case all those errors got through me, an editor, and more than one proofreader.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Proofreading is a pain! I remember in college I would write out my papers, mark them up, then type them, also proofing as I went, and then re-type them after marking up the first typed copy. Somewhere in there I usually let someone else also read and mark up. I always, _always_, ALWAYS still found errors on the "final" copy which I was supposed to turn in.

Now, for you young'ns, this was before, computers so it wasn't as easy as just going to the file and changing "too" to "two" or whatever. . .it meant a complete re-typing at least of the offending page and sometimes the whole paper. Fortunately, except for things like theses, the professors were fine with pen and ink corrections on what you turned in, as long as there weren't too many of them. In fact, if there were no pen and ink corrections, I had one prof who would mark you down a whole grade if she found even one. Her theory was that you had not re-read it after typing and you should have.

So, all that is just to say, yeah, I can get irked at typos etc. in books, but I get that there are probably going to be a few just because we're all human. It's not until I'm actually noticing how many I'm noticing that I begin to get annoyed.

Ann


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Ann:

I got my first upright typewriter when in 1955, when I was 8 years old. I share your proofing pain. My Master's dissertation was typed four times and then rejected because erasures screwed up the microfiche, and I had to retype it while in bed with tonsillitis. BTW, the last book I published, The Academician, is based on that dissertation - now 37 years later.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Thumper said:


> ...your brain goes numb after the 10th reading, and is pretty much dead by the final draft.


My brain is dead on arrival. I can do a fairly good job of proofreading other people's work but when I read my own my brain remembers what I wanted to say instead of recognizing that I didn't really say what I wanted to say. I often leave the "r" off the word "your" and there are a number of words that I habitually misuse such as passed for past, but I never see those mistakes when I read what I've written.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Thumper said:


> Face it, when you've read something at least 30 times you just don't see the mistakes anymore, and if they're not caught on the publisher's end, then they don't get caught.


So true. Errors can slip through something as short as a term paper. I'm used to proofing long, legal documents where the snore factor is enough to make me bang my head on the desk. After the tenth revision or so, it's best to have someone look at it with fresh eyes. Even then, nothing is fool-proof.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

BTW, for you editing mavens out there, the worst typos are those in headlines, which we somehow forget, or gloss over. And they are SO BIG and shout STUPITY. lol.

Ed Patterson


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

I've never let a few typos get in the way of a good story.  If I understand what the author is trying to convey, all is right with the world.


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## kim (Nov 20, 2008)

What really irritates me is all the errors in online news articles.  Grammatical errors, missing words, phrases that don't make sense seem to be consistently growing in the number of occurrences.  I'm assuming it's because of the internet; news stations are expected to have a story online within moments of something happening.  I would guess a lot less editing and proof reading happens when you want your story published within seconds.  I can't believe it's that hard to get somebody to pre-read an article.  

It drives me nuts and it happens so often.


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## Jill75 (Mar 19, 2009)

Sad to say, these days, editing is done in the form of programs which are less reliable than human correction. Also, many are taking granted the proper use of English, grammar, spelling, etc. Even in forums, you would find a lot of these.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

One great thing about Kindleboards is the spell check feature. Being blind in one eye, I rarely create a post that's not full of typos and I'd hate to send each one over for editing. In addition, it is severely boad form for an author to post anything with typos, errors, grammatical _faux pas _ and malapropisms. After all, _wood u bye a book from an auhtor hu maeks sich missteaks_. lolololol. he he

Edward C. Patterson


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## VarangianGuard (Apr 21, 2009)

Speaking of irritating things, on the way to work today I listened as NPR stated, "Confirmed swine flu cases in the US have been confirmed".  Wow!


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Things are so bad with the economy that no one can afford proof readers.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

kim said:


> What really irritates me is all the errors in online news articles. Grammatical errors, missing words, phrases that don't make sense seem to be consistently growing in the number of occurrences. I'm assuming it's because of the internet; news stations are expected to have a story online within moments of something happening. I would guess a lot less editing and proof reading happens when you want your story published within seconds. I can't believe it's that hard to get somebody to pre-read an article.
> 
> It drives me nuts and it happens so often.


About 30 years ago, The Miami Herald starting spelling "employees" as "employes." Drove me nuts. I sent a letter. They never fixed it. I canceled the paper. That's a lot different than an occasional "to" for "too."


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> About 30 years ago, The Miami Herald starting spelling "employees" as "employes." Drove me nuts. I sent a letter. They never fixed it. I canceled the paper. That's a lot different than an occasional "to" for "too."


Did you tell them why you didn't want their paper anymore? That might have made someone take note.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

My local Newspaper, The Morning Call, last year ran a full page article on the King Tut exhibit. On a sidebar, they created a timeline of contemporary civilizations to Tut's reign, where they listed The Ming Dynasty (1357-1664) of course it's CE, and not BCE, and nobody caught it because they misread the date. Of course, Sinologist that I am, I made a phone call, to which I was promptly cast as a stuffy old prig with too much attention to detail. Oh well. I guess here in the Lehigh Valley, a few millenium doesn't make a difference. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> About 30 years ago, The Miami Herald starting spelling "employees" as "employes."


Don't read the Wall Street Journal.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Did you tell them why you didn't want their paper anymore? That might have made someone take note.


I don't think it would have done any good. They continued to deliver the paper for a year after I canceled ... and I never got a bill.



Jeff said:


> Don't read the Wall Street Journal.


Important safety tip. Thanks.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> I don't think it would have done any good. They continued to deliver the paper for a year after I canceled ... and I never got a bill.


<snicker> They had bigger problems than the lack of a proofreader.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I think one reason newspapers are in decline is that their billing folks are clueless.  We've gotten the Washington Post Sunday for years.  Every fall they call and ask don't we want the weekday paper too, for free until January?  Please say yes because it's good for the delivery people, they make more money, etc., etc.  So, O.K, fine send it.

Come January, of course, they call to ask if I want to keep it coming for the regular subscription rate.  So I say, No, thank you.

Well a couple of years ago, all this happened but they never stopped delivering it.  I even called and told them because I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't going to pay for it.  They said they'd cancel the weekdays but they never did.  I still just pay the Sunday only subscription rate, but the weekday paper keeps coming.

It's all good, though:  we (well, the spouse thingy) roll them up and use them to keep our house warm in the winter.  Works great for getting the wood stove started. . . .

Ann


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Newspapers are interested in padding their subscription rolls because that keeps the advertising revenue coming.  The advertisers don't care if we get the paper for free as long as their ads are exposed to the greatest number possible.

I stopped getting the Sunday papers, too, because I kept getting those calls to extend my subscription.  Now I get no papers at all.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Important safety tip. Thanks.


Not hazardous to your heath, unless the word employe would send you into seizures.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I stopped the newspaper altogether since I can get the New York Times daily on my Kindle. (Wonderful).
THEN, I got USA Today, and discontinued it after two downloads. (Formatting terrible, hard to follow, and content pretty . . . well, I will not lambast any living writer as per policy. Let's say, the articles were not my cup of tea or my brand of scotch.

Edward C. Patterson


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## kim (Nov 20, 2008)

Please don't shoot me if this answer is obvious to everyone but me (grammar is one thing that I ain't so well at).

When someone in a courtroom says that they did the crime, the local paper states that they "pleaded guilty".  I always thought that they "pled guilty".  Is this one of those words that I just don't know its proper use or is my local paper stupid?  "Pleaded guilty" just sounds silly to me.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Why not just say they entered a guilty plea. Avoids the whole issue. But here's what Wiki Answers says to the question "What is the past tense of plea?"
_
One who enters a plea has plead, not pleaded. The past tense of plea is plead (pronounced pled) if one has pleaded, they have urged or begged in some way or attempted to pursuade[sic]. When one enters a plea they do nothing of this sort. A plea is a formal entrance of a parties stance with respect to charges that have been presented, there is no negotiation or pleading involved only a statement of guilt, conditioned guilt or innocense[sic]. The fact that most media anchors and many legal professionals get it wrong does not somehow make it right. There is a big differance[sic] between the act of pleading an the act of entering a plea. Let us get this publically straightened out. _

Mind you, there are any number of spelling errors in that answer, so I don't know how much I really trust it. 

Ann


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## kim (Nov 20, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Why not just say they entered a guilty plea. Avoids the whole issue. But here's what Wiki Answers says to the question "What is the past tense of plea?"
> _
> One who enters a plea has plead, not pleaded. The past tense of plea is plead (pronounced pled) if one has pleaded, they have urged or begged in some way or attempted to pursuade[sic]. When one enters a plea they do nothing of this sort. A plea is a formal entrance of a parties stance with respect to charges that have been presented, there is no negotiation or pleading involved only a statement of guilt, conditioned guilt or innocense[sic]. The fact that most media anchors and many legal professionals get it wrong does not somehow make it right. There is a big differance[sic] between the act of pleading an the act of entering a plea. Let us get this publically straightened out. _
> 
> ...


If it's in Wiki it must be right 
I feel much better knowing that I wasn't wrong. (I might not be right, but at least I'm not wrong)

Thanks for investigative research, Ann.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Not hazardous to your heath, unless the word employe would send you into seizures.


My seizure meds are all up to date, so I'm safe. 



Ann in Arlington said:


> Why not just say they entered a guilty plea. Avoids the whole issue. But here's what Wiki Answers says to the question "What is the past tense of plea?"
> _
> One who enters a plea has plead, not pleaded. The past tense of plea is plead (pronounced pled) if one has pleaded, they have urged or begged in some way or attempted to pursuade[sic]. When one enters a plea they do nothing of this sort. A plea is a formal entrance of a parties stance with respect to charges that have been presented, there is no negotiation or pleading involved only a statement of guilt, conditioned guilt or innocense[sic]. The fact that most media anchors and many legal professionals get it wrong does not somehow make it right. There is a big differance[sic] between the act of pleading an the act of entering a plea. Let us get this publically straightened out. _
> 
> ...


According to my copy of Webster's Legal Speller, either pleaded or pled is correct.


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