# Price Fixing lawsuit - COMBINED thread



## hamerfan (Apr 24, 2011)

A class-action lawsuit has been filed against Apple and 5 of the 6 major book publishers, alleging they "colluded to increase prices for popular e-book titles to boost profits and force e-book rival Amazon to abandon its pro-consumer discount pricing." 
The lawsuit, filed this afternoon in the Northern District of California claims Apple and Hachette, HarperCollins, MacMillan, Penguin, and Simon & Shuster illegally worked together to enable an "agency model" as the standard for e-book sales, rather than the "wholesale model" that is used in the physical publishing industry. The complaint argues that the strategy was unfair and anticompetitive because e-book prices rose after the agreements were in place.

http://www.hbsslaw.com/cases-and-investigations/ebooks


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## ginaf20697 (Jan 31, 2009)

It's about time. There is no reason I should have to pay full price for an ebook that I can get for 25% off at Walmart.


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## robertk328 (Jul 8, 2011)

ginaf20697 said:


> It's about time. There is no reason I should have to pay full price for an ebook that I can get for 25% off at Walmart.


Particularly when there's nothing physical about the ebook!


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## J_T (May 16, 2011)

good! e-book prices are getting ridiculous.. but i guess if people are willing to pay outrageous prices for them I can understand why they charge that much.  When I see an expensive e-book, I just don't buy it.


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## Brem (Jun 29, 2011)

This is great news. I hate when companies try to do this horrible nonsense. E-books should cost nearly as much as a physical copy of a book. Ridiculous!


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## Katie Salidas (Mar 21, 2010)

I have to say, as much as I hate frivolous law suits, this might just be what we need. I'm very sick of seeing ebooks priced at if not more than hardbound books. It has stopped me on more than one occasion from purchasing a book I had on my TBR list. I just won't pay that much for an ebook.


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## Brem (Jun 29, 2011)

It's as if they don't want us to purchase e-books. I honestly get that they're trying to make money, but raising prices wont help you out whatsoever.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm not sure this one is so frivolous.  I said at the time that they were basically ganging up and bullying Amazon into playing their way or taking their ball and going home.  I think it's about time someone called them on it.  Apple wanted into ebooks and couldn't compete with Amazon so they got together with publishers, told them how they could make money off the deal, and fought dirty instead of actually trying to compete.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Katie Salidas said:


> I have to say, as much as I hate frivolous law suits, this might just be what we need.


Frivolous ??


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

I look forward to hearing more.


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## redshift1 (Jun 20, 2009)

Brem said:


> It's as if they don't want us to purchase e-books. I honestly get that they're trying to make money, but raising prices wont help you out whatsoever.


True, of course the same companies went to some length to expalin how the publishing costs of ebooks and DTB are the same. So by those standards
their logic is infallible.


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## KingAl (Feb 21, 2011)

If the publishers lose this case, it may not be good for consumers. If Amazon is free to sell ebooks at a loss, they could possibly drive B&N out of business.


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## redshift1 (Jun 20, 2009)

KingAl said:


> If the publishers lose this case, it may not be good for consumers. If Amazon is free to sell ebooks at a loss, they could possibly drive B&N out of business.


Books and the publishing industry are under the same pressures as record stores/music stores and of course Blockbuster Video. Digital content will be the primary 
mode for most consumers. The best hope for B&N stores is the continued success of the Nook. All this in less than ten years who would have guessed.


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## ginaf20697 (Jan 31, 2009)

KingAl said:


> If the publishers lose this case, it may not be good for consumers. If Amazon is free to sell ebooks at a loss, they could possibly drive B&N out of business.


If B&N goes out of business it has more to do with what they charge for regular books than ebooks. And they're already pretty close to it without this.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I think all brick and mortar bookstores are close to it even without this.  In a lot of ways this is definitely a bad thing, but might also be good for those mom and pop stores that are often a lot more of a joy to shop in.  With the retail giants gone, maybe they could flourish again.  They don't require as many customers and all of those that used to go to these larger bookstores will either have to go digital/online or find a local bookseller and patronize them instead.  I know a lot of people who aren't even comfortable ordering over the internet yet, much less buying digital books, so there's definitely some money still out there.  But to judge from all of these places having so much trouble, it's not enough to keep a large retail chain afloat.


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

This is from *ROBUST* on Goodreads, posted by Patricia Sierra:

****
It's all about the agency model and price fixing: 
http://paidcontent.org/article/419-class-action-suit-against-apple-and-big-publishers-whats-in-it/

I don't know if this will go anywhere. It's interesting that they left Random House out it -- apparently because RH adopted the agency model so much later than the others.

Anybody know if something similar was done in the UK? Seems to me I read about legal action there as well several months ago.


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

My reply on *ROBUST*:

Maybe a nuisance suit. But this could become very interesting if it was initiated or is picked up by Amazon. The journalist slipped up in not tracing the connection of the law firm launching the class action, and the attorney-complainant, back to Amazon. The phrasing of the complaint -- all that open praize (sic!) of Amazon, the underlying assumption that St Augustine's "just price" is set by Amazon and Amazon alone -- could have come straight from the desk of Jeff Bezos!

In Britain the case is that for decades books were a special case, exempted by statute from the laws and regulations prohibiting resale price maintenance (RPM), i.e. internal corporate price fixing. Then Waterstones broke the compact between the publishers and the booksellers to maintain book prices by discounting the bestseller list, and was too big to punish effectively. I don't know if the exemption still stands -- James? -- but if it does, it would not necessarily exclude prosecution for the agency model under other statutes dealing with external, inter-company collusion to fix prices.


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## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

The publishers just don't get it - ebooks are here to stay and they need to make some adjustments.
I refuse to pay MORE for an ebook than a print book - not list price, but what I would actually pay for it.  In those cases, they have lost me.  I'm not paying the higher price for the ebook and I'm not purchasing the print book.  I will borrow it from a friend or get it from the library.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Whoa.

Did not know that was going on.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/369232/apple-sued-over-ebook-price-fixing


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Huh.  Interesting.  Whether or not they have a leg to stand on - that I don't know.  But I'm interested in seeing how this shakes out.


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## jimbronyaur (Feb 9, 2011)

That annoys me... really bad.  REALLY REALLY bad... may have to blog about it.

But come on here... Apple has more $$ compared to the entire US Govt right now.  They are fighting with Exxon for most value in a company.  Hundreds of billions.

And when my friend ordered an iPad a month ago, they let him track the progress of it being built... in China.  Seriously?  I know it's not just Apple, but it's annoying.  $800 for an iPad and it's building in China.

And now ebooks?  They are trying to do what?  Take hold of the market?  Wrestle people like they did and do with iTunes?  Screw that noise, I say.  I'll never buy anything from iTunes... they overcharge and then only allow you to use the music on so many computers, etc.  

Another tarnish on the traditional publishing system... sad to see it happen, but wow, are they getting desperate?

-jb


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

_"$800 for an iPad and it's building in China."_

What should the price be? Why?


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## kellymcclymer (Apr 22, 2010)

mrv01d said:


> Whoa.
> 
> Did not know that was going on.
> 
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/369232/apple-sued-over-ebook-price-fixing


Interesting. This is the same firm that is beginning a class action suit against publishers for "missing" ebook payments to traditionally published authors (a scandalous situation of antiquated accounting practices meets high tech ebook sales process).

Will be really curious to see what happens with it all.


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## BarbraAnnino (Jan 27, 2011)

Wow, thanks for this link. Interesting times indeed.


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## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

I joined the lawsuit... But ran out of words! He he... 1000 words was not enough to register my thoughts.

Oh well... Brevity is the soul of wit, right?


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## Lambert (Nov 12, 2010)

In most cases I prefered eBooks over printed ones. They are much easier to read.

I have a few printed books that I couldn't finished, in fact hardly started, because it was a pain to read. In these cases an eBook is worth more.

I like to enjoy my reading and with the Kindle it's almost always easy to do.

Physical. Digital. So what? Whatever works for you.

I would like the option to print ebooks out though in some cases.

Lambert


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## Sporadic (May 1, 2009)

Good.

I need to join because something like this










is ridiculous.

I purchased Swan Song for $6.39 on January 3, 2010. I checked the price on April 26 2011, the price set by the publisher is $13.99. (and now it has been pulled from the store)


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## KingAl (Feb 21, 2011)

tkkenyon said:


> Yee-flippin'-hah!
> 
> I might put off purchases of ebooks for a few weeks to see if the agency-pricin finks try to reduce their prices proactively.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bet on it. I'm pretty sure this will be tied up in courts for years.


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

I forwarded this lawsuit to TUAW yesterday after seeing this post. This was a fight just waiting to happen, I just hope the law firm is up to it!


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## *Sandy Harper* (Jun 22, 2011)

Do these publishers and apple give same royalty as Amazon does for eBooks? Ebooks should not be selling for more than $5 and certainly not more than $10 in my opinion. This is the cheapest way to publish and market the info.


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## Ann Chambers (Apr 24, 2011)

Excited to hear about this suit! I was so disappointed when agency pricing kicked in. Part of the reason I originally bought a Kindle was to get $9.99 bestsellers at Amazon. And then they disappeared. 

I have changed my buying habits though. Decided the NY publishers were just too greedy and I've been reading only books that are $4.99 or less. And there's TONS out there. Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit, I'll bet there are others like me who just aren't willing to pay those prices anymore. 

I sure hope the NY publishers are seeing sales drop since the price change. Curious to see this lawsuit play out.


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## robertk328 (Jul 8, 2011)

saw a new book out that I really want to read but $14.99 for the Kindle version. Haven't been buying books in years (Kindle 're-kindled' reading for me) so I guess that's how it is. Hardback is $16. 

*Sold by:* Penguin Publishing
_This price was set by the publisher_


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

Interesting, I wonder if they have the smoking gun to prove price fixing.


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

Tippy said:


> Interesting, I wonder if they have the smoking gun to prove price fixing.


Contrary to what seems to be the common opinion/wishful thinking in the Kindle reader/indie publisher community, I expect price fixing to be very hard to prove. Price fixing is a conspiracy. These publishers met openly with a big distributor (Apple) and openly made an arrangement to regulate their industry, and then sent out publicity releases about it! They wouldn't have done that unless they had legal advice up front that it was not an illegal thing to do. If it was a conspiracy, it was the most incompetent conspiracy the world ever saw!


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Bossypants by Tina Fey is $12.99 and it is the Number One bestseller in Humor, and has been for quite some time. 

$12.99 is huge for me, but there are people who are willing to pay such prices, it would seem.


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## robertk328 (Jul 8, 2011)

Richardcrasta said:


> Bossypants by Tina Fey is $12.99 and it is the Number One bestseller in Humor, and has been for quite some time.
> 
> $12.99 is huge for me, but there are people who are willing to pay such prices, it would seem.


I'm finding a personal roadblock at 9.99, but am excited about the new SK book coming out in November (11/22/63) which so far is at 16.99 - so I may make an exception.


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## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

Did this suit vanish? I was contacted once early on, but never got the follow-up call from the law firm. Settled out of court maybe?


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

My guess is nothing else has happened other than behind-the-scenes boring court stuff.  Litigation is a slow moving process, with lots of boring procedural steps that nobody except the parties (and mostly just the attorneys/courts) ever know about.  There's no further info on the law firm's website regarding 'new action' since the lawsuit was filed just under 2 months ago, but it still shows as a current case.

And nothing would ever get settled this quickly, they still would have to go through a whole lot of document requests, responses and review to get a handle on what a settlement would be worth and so on.  Obviously every case is different and different types of cases are different, but as a recent example, I was slightly involved with a litigation case (I don't normally do litigation work) where someone sued our client for pension claims as a class action suit -- similar to this one, where basically one or two folks are the named plaintiffs for themselves and on behalf of a whole lot of others -- and it was 3-1/2 years before a settlement was reached.  So this'll be awhile, I'm pretty sure...


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