# Is Kindle Unlimited Devaluing Books? The Dark Side of Exclusivity



## ebooklaunch (Mar 24, 2013)

Interesting article: http://blog.smashwords.com/2014/12/is-kindle-unlimited-devaluing-books.html

What are your thoughts?


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I think a blog on Smashwords attacking Amazon is totally legit. Oh, and if you want to talk about devaluing books, shouldn't that discussion start at permafree and then move on to subscription services?


----------



## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

YodaRead said:


> Oh, and if you want to talk about devaluing books, shouldn't that discussion start at permafree and then move on to subscription services?


Nope.


----------



## Amanda Hough (Feb 17, 2014)

Interesting, but what can indie writers glean from this blog post considering its originator? Isn't it in Mark Coker's best interest to write posts like this. I'm not disputing any of his points. I suppose I am weary of these companies tugging at writers. It's about money. Period. In Coker's pocket or in Bezos'.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Books have a value??  Yea I guess they do 50 cents for hardback at the local thrift store.


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> I think a blog on Smashwords attacking Amazon is totally legit. Oh, and if you want to talk about devaluing books, shouldn't that discussion start at permafree and then move on to subscription services?


Permafree; the book is devalued by the author/publisher

Subscription Services; ALL of the author/publishers books are devalued by the distributor (a middleman)

With KU the race to the bottom went to warp speed.


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Books have a value?? Yea I guess they do 50 cents for hardback at the local thrift store.


Ouch. Wouldn't happen to have some Bactine, would you cin?


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Randall Wood said:


> Permafree; the book is devalued by the author/publisher
> 
> Subscription Services; ALL of the author/publishers books are devalued by the distributor (a middleman)
> 
> With KU the race to the bottom went to warp speed.


Authors have a choice of staying in Select or not staying in Select -- so they are making the choice to "devalue" their own work. How is it any different?


----------



## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

YodaRead said:


> Authors have a choice of staying in Select or not staying in Select -- so they are making the choice to "devalue" their own work. How is it any different?


Two quite different strategies.

Apples and oranges.


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> Authors have a choice of staying in Select or not staying in Select -- so they are making the choice to "devalue" their own work. How is it any different?


True, its also a choice that will cost them (for the majority) their most valuable distributor.

The carrot and stick should weigh as close to the same as possible or its NOT A GOOD BUSINESS DEAL. This is true no matter what it is you are buying or selling. Its math, its science, and just because someone chooses not to believe it, you know what? ITS STILL TRUE!


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

KelliWolfe said:


> Ouch. Wouldn't happen to have some Bactine, would you cin?


Oh and one thrift store about once a month puts all except cookbooks 15 for $1.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Colin said:


> Two quite different strategies.
> 
> Apples and oranges.


How? You have a choice of making your books permafree, and you have a choice of joining Select. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.


----------



## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Books have a value?? Yea I guess they do 50 cents for hardback at the local thrift store.


I wish! That's more yardsale value for me.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Randall Wood said:


> True, its also a choice that will cost them (for the majority) their most valuable distributor.
> 
> The carrot and stick should weigh as close to the same as possible or its NOT A GOOD BUSINESS DEAL. This is true no matter what it is you are buying or selling. Its math, its science, and just because someone chooses not to believe it, you know what? ITS STILL TRUE!


Did I miss the part where you can't sell on Amazon unless you're in Select? So how is that taking away the most valuable distributor? No one is forcing anyone into Select. You can still sell on Amazon without Select. So, what's the problem again?


----------



## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

> Oh, and if you want to talk about devaluing books, shouldn't that discussion start at permafree and then move on to subscription services?





YodaRead said:


> How? You have a choice of making your books permafree, and you have a choice of joining Select. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.


Yep. But you are talking about devaluing all books that are in Select/KU. Permafree allows an author to strategically devalue one or more of their titles with the aim of adding value by the sale of their full priced books. And they don't have to be exclusive to Amazon. And they don't have to spend each month anxiously waiting to see what remuneration Amazon decides to pay them from the magic KU pot.

Apples and oranges.

Edited to add: good night/nos da from West Wales!


----------



## scribblr (Aug 20, 2010)

Amanda Hough said:


> Interesting, but what can indie writers glean from this blog post considering its originator? Isn't it in Mark Coker's best interest to write posts like this. I'm not disputing any of his points. I suppose I am weary of these companies tugging at writers. It's about money. Period. In Coker's pocket or in Bezos'.


It's in ALL of our best interests to keep the Indie book market healthy. I too have been talking against the Select program since its inception. This forum and the KDP General Questions forum on Amazon are littered with many dozens of such posts from me going back to its beginning. Since then, people have been shouting at me that I'm ONLY saying it because it's in MY best interest to keep the selling prices higher. Yes, I have an interest in keeping the selling prices higher because this keeps the royalty payments higher. That helps ALL of us who supply books to the resellers. Are you saying that it's in your best interest to keep prices lower, and thus earn less royalties? Does that make sense to you?

When John Locke and Amanda Hocking began the race to the bottom with their 99 cent books, it was obvious that the downhill slide would affect all of us. And it has. If authors didn't have to compete with cheaper books to gain market share, wouldn't their prices be higher and thus wouldn't their royalty checks also be larger?

This has been like the gas price wars in the 1970's where gas stations on opposing corners of an intersection kept lowering prices to increase their market share over that of their competition across the highway. Its true that our capitalistic society fosters such competition, but at some point you have to draw the line or everyone suffers. The trouble is that Amazon's dominant position in the industry has allowed it to draw all the lines to date. Amazon's goal with this program is exclusivity, and it's using greed to get there. It's paying authors with cheap books four times the previous royalty amount. This is causing other authors to lose market share, and therefore forcing many to remain in the KU/Select program even though they'd probably rather return to the previous system. I understand why new authors, desperate to sell books and gain a foothold in the industry, have embraced the KU system. I see posts saying that they will stay in it until they reach a certain level and then bow out to join the mainstream. But by the time they want to bow out, KU will be BE the mainstream and no one will be doing well. Newcomers can't understand that THEIR actions are reshaping the industry and destroying their own potential for the level of success they hope to achieve in the future. They're trading their future for monetary gratification right now, and can only see the dollars they're currently reaping.

I will no doubt be castigated for this comment, as I has been for all such comments since Dec. 2011 whenever I've talked against the new programs and policies of the Zon. As I've already admitted, it's in my best interest to keep the Indie publishing industry healthy and the royalties as high as possible. And every other Indie, other than the get-rich-quick types, should have that goal as well.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2014)

I don't know if KU devalues books, but it certainly devalues authors. 

To say "you have to grant us exclusivity" AND "we're going to pay you less for it" is a massive slap in the face. Even more disturbing is the way that the payment scheme is structured. Coker hits it right on the nose when he says that Amazon is basically saying "I’ll decide what I feel like paying you in a few weeks."

Worse, because all of the earnings come out of the same pot, it turns the KU marketplace into a zero-sub game. Those in KU who are making it up on volume are making money at the expense of someone else. Not that there's anything morally wrong with that (except possibly in the case of scamlets), but Amazon has purposefully structured it that way so that KU authors are pitted against each other.

For years, people have argued that if Amazon ever became a monopoly, or gained enough market share to act as one, it would use that leverage to drop rates and screw us all over. Well, isn't that exactly what we're seeing with KU?


----------



## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

Randall Wood said:


> Permafree; the book is devalued by the author/publisher


Not necessarily. It's called a "loss leader."


Randall Wood said:


> Subscription Services; ALL of the author/publishers books are devalued by the distributor (a middleman)


Not all books. A $.99 book is up-valued. The payout is more than the $.35 royalty.

The downside to KU for me is the tie to Select, which requires exclusivity. Roughly half of my e-book royalties in the past two months come from Apple, Kobo, Nook, etc. And that's after the D2D cut.


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> Did I miss the part where you can't sell on Amazon unless you're in Select? So how is that taking away the most valuable distributor? No one is forcing anyone into Select. You can still sell on Amazon without Select. So, what's the problem again?


Seriously? Are you really trying to convince me that there's no difference at all between KDP and Select/KU? I guess everybody who is saying their sales drastically dropped, from Holly down to the guy who was selling one a day and went to zero post KU, are just a freaky coincidence?

If you don't recognize that for what it is I guess there's nothing left to say. You've said you are doing well, I sincerely hope you are still doing so a few months from now.


----------



## BillSmithBooksDotCom (Nov 4, 2012)

I don't think Mark has said anything new here and I think this article may just give more ammo to the brigade that argues "Mark Coker has Amazon Derangement Syndrome and ought to focus on his own business first."

Sometimes, when you are in direct competition with someone, the best policy is to keep quiet and walk the high road. Just let others say for you what you are dying to say out loud.

That said, I agree with Mark (as I often do) -- authors will probably in the long run be better served by being on as many platforms as possible and doing what they can to encourage their readers to buy from several different vendors to keep the ebook market healthy and force vendors to keep terms favorable for authors. Putting all of your eggs in anyone else's basket -- Amazon, B&N, Google, Apple, Smashwords, whoever -- is always a risky bet.

Amazon obviously wants to leverage that "exclusivity" element to bring in new readers and prevent other vendors from getting some of these books. That is a shrewd business strategy on Amazon's part.

As a writer, I don't like the "you don't know what you get paid until after the end of the month" aspect...although getting payments instead of just going straight permafree is awesome in concept.

I don't think KU "devalues" books so much as authors in the long term are probably going to create content that caters to how the program is structured. With falling payout rates, lots of authors have incentive to pull their full-length work out of KU. As KU is structured now, authors are rewarded for writing shorter works designed to cater to the "binge reader" subscriber -- lots of short stories to generate lots of reads. If Amazon wants to hold onto full-length, newer works by popular authors, they are going to have to restructure the program.

That, of course, is assuming that KU has enough subscribers to be worthwhile. Honestly, we don't know how many readers are actually paying money to join KU (as opposed to having access through one of the many "free" options) and how much revenue the program is actually bringing in to Amazon.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Randall Wood said:


> Seriously? Are you really trying to convince me that there's no difference at all between KDP and Select/KU? I guess everybody who is saying their sales drastically dropped, from Holly down to the guy who was selling one a day and went to zero post KU, are just a freaky coincidence?
> 
> If you don't recognize that for what it is I guess there's nothing left to say. You've said you are doing well, I sincerely hope you are still doing so a few months from now.


Um, no, I'm saying that you can still sell on Amazon without being in Select -- which was exactly what I said.


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

Actually, this is your full statement.

"Did I miss the part where you can't sell on Amazon unless you're in Select? So how is that taking away the most valuable distributor? No one is forcing anyone into Select. You can still sell on Amazon without Select. So, what's the problem again?"

You asked "So, what's the problem again?" implying that there is no problem. When clearly there is a caste system in place at Amazon. One that divides KDP from KU like the Grand Canyon. Its become essentially two different platforms.

To quote Marc from the OP;

"With KDP Select, Amazon created a caste system in their store that gave advantages to exclusive authors (more discoverability, more merchandising tools, higher royalty rates) and harmed non-exclusive authors (less discoverability, fewer merchandising tools, lower royalty rates). "

Unless you join Select and go exclusive you are clearly in the second group, and have lost what was most likely the platform that served you and your books the best. Just because you are still listed at Amazon doesn't make this less so.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> Um, no, I'm saying that you can still sell on Amazon without being in Select -- which was exactly what I said.


Since borrows are counted as sales, though, KU affects all Amazon authors whether they're in the program or not. No author is an island.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I like how when Coker says things, it's financially motivated and thus can't be trusted.

But when an author who makes a lot of money says things (in favor of the people who wrote their biggest checks) they're smart and inciteful* and oh-so-special.

*Not a typo.


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> Did I miss the part where you can't sell on Amazon unless you're in Select? So how is that taking away the most valuable distributor? No one is forcing anyone into Select. You can still sell on Amazon without Select. So, what's the problem again?


KU gives a huuuuuge rank boost to works in select. I saw it myself when I just took my first book out to make it permafree. Sales didn't change from day to day, but rank lost 20k. In less than twelve hours. So yes. You can. I'd imagine it's a lot harder now then it used to be, judging by the large number of very successful indies who had huge swathes of their income gobbled up by KU. Now -- they're recovering and it should all work out fine eventually, but KU was a big game changer and hurt a lot of writers. Or at least Amazon's algo change at the same time did.

Me, I'm in it and probably will stay in for a bit, because I write serials. And I'm so glad it works for you, and hopefully it will work for me. But I don't pretend that Amazon's somehow playing fair or that I think KU will be a long-term net good for Ebook profits. Just look at Spotify. Subscription services are murder for media industries.


----------



## evawallace (Aug 7, 2014)

scribblr said:


> It's in ALL of our best interests to keep the Indie book market healthy. I too have been talking against the Select program since its inception. This forum and the KDP General Questions forum on Amazon are littered with many dozens of such posts from me going back to its beginning. Since then, people have been shouting at me that I'm ONLY saying it because it's in MY best interest to keep the selling prices higher. Yes, I have an interest in keeping the selling prices higher because this keeps the royalty payments higher. That helps ALL of us who supply books to the resellers. Are you saying that it's in your best interest to keep prices lower, and thus earn less royalties? Does that make sense to you?
> 
> When John Locke and Amanda Hocking began the race to the bottom with their 99 cent books, it was obvious that the downhill slide would affect all of us. And it has. If authors didn't have to compete with cheaper books to gain market share, wouldn't their prices be higher and thus wouldn't their royalty checks also be larger?
> 
> ...


As a new author how are you supposed to get noticed other than sell your ass to Amazon? There reach is so much further than anybody elses, and with the kindle taking most of the ebook market your screwed until somebody creates a better platform.


----------



## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

YodaRead said:


> if you want to talk about devaluing books, shouldn't that discussion start at permafree and then move on to subscription services?


Yes; it should.



scribblr said:


> I too have been talking against the Select program since its inception.


As have most people with any real marketing or commercial experience.



scribblr said:


> When John Locke and Amanda Hocking began the race to the bottom with their 99 cent books, it was obvious that the downhill slide would affect all of us. And it has.


Well, not quite.

But I take your point, and I understand why you make it.



scribblr said:


> If authors didn't have to compete with cheaper books to gain market share


We don't *have* to. And some of us actually choose not to. There's nobody forcing self-published authors to choose to compete in that sector of the market. There's nothing to stop us from choosing to compete with the trade-published books and sell our digital copies at $9.99, if we want to. Some of us do that very successfully. The "average reader", whoever she or he is, has no interest in "who the publisher is" at all.



scribblr said:


> The trouble is that Amazon's dominant position in the industry has allowed it to draw all the lines to date.


Agreed. But many self-published authors choose to devalue their own work in the first place, and are actually happy to cooperate with Amazon (for the perceived short-term benefits) when Amazon does that, too.



scribblr said:


> I will no doubt be castigated for this comment


No doubt. But you'll also be supported for it by a minority of us who basically agree with you, in nearly everything you say on this and related subjects.


----------



## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

The landscape is definitely changing, and much of what Mark says is true. Here's where I take some issue.

"Indies gave KDP Select its critical mass, which means Indies created this monster. Now indies have the power to undo this before it's too late."

Negative. KDP Select gave many Indies their critical mass in the early Select crazy days. A better way to say it is BookBub and KDP Select gave many Indies their critical mass, me included. I was doing fine before Select, but between 2012-2013, my writing career took off. I watched this happen for many, many authors. I'm not saying we owe anything to Select, but I think Mark got this a little backward.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Joe Vasicek said:


> I don't know if KU devalues books, but it certainly devalues authors.
> 
> To say "you have to grant us exclusivity" AND "we're going to pay you less for it" is a massive slap in the face


I'd argue that KU devalues authors only if those authors choose to feel devalued. Another way to look at it is Amazon saying "go exclusive with us and we'll pay you whenever someone borrows your titles and reads up to 10%." Which is about the length of the downloadable sample. So one would be getting paid for readers to sample my work. Can't get that from a permafree or from a library loan.

I believe KU is a discoverability tool; a tactic. Not a strategy. I don't think anyone should build their career around KU. But, based on what I've read here and elsewhere from authors who have found success, using KU smartly, as part of your overall bookselling strategy, can have major benefits.


----------



## Jack Weiss (Dec 11, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> I believe KU is a discoverability tool; a tactic. Not a strategy. I don't think anyone should build their career around KU. But, based on what I've read here and elsewhere from authors who have found success, using KU smartly, as part of your overall bookselling strategy, can have major benefits.


I agree completely with ya, Jim.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> I'd argue that KU devalues authors only if those authors choose to feel devalued. Another way to look at it is Amazon saying "go exclusive with us and we'll pay you whenever someone borrows your titles and reads up to 10%." Which is about the length of the downloadable sample. So one would be getting paid for readers to sample my work. Can't get that from a permafree or from a library loan.
> 
> I believe KU is a discoverability tool; a tactic. Not a strategy. I don't think anyone should build their career around KU. But, based on what I've read here and elsewhere from authors who have found success, using KU smartly, as part of your overall bookselling strategy, can have major benefits.


Agree, 100%.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I want to add to Zoe's statement.

The voracious reader will pretty much read anything in their chosen genres as long as it is good and fairly well written. 

I always hear some authors complain about best sellers and grammar.  Yes, it is probably true.  But you should not be targeting the people that buy the best sellers because those are about all they buy.    You need to be targeting the voracious readers.    This means make your book better than the trads.  We will love you and support you.  If you just throw up any old thing because of the readers don't care about grammar,  you will probably never get big enough to get the readers that don't care about grammar.    
Know your target audience. 

Ok rant over.
Yes voracious readers do read the best sellers.  Usually 2 to 3 years or more later when they find the book used or on sale cheap.


----------



## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

Amanda Hough said:


> Interesting, but what can indie writers glean from this blog post considering its originator? Isn't it in Mark Coker's best interest to write posts like this. I'm not disputing any of his points. I suppose I am weary of these companies tugging at writers. It's about money. Period. In Coker's pocket or in Bezos'.


Thanks for this comment. It's a fair question. Allow me to share my thoughts... Each of us has a self interest, but all self interests aren't necessarily selfish or self-serving or good-for-me-bad-for-someone-else. My interest in founding Smashwords was to democratize publishing by empowering authors with the tools and knowledge to reach readers and publish like professionals. To the extent authors support Smashwords with their distribution, we will continue to prosecute this mission. I don't think the question is whether money goes in Jeff's pocket or my own. It's about money in your pocket, and how do we maximize that for you.

Every time I blog an opinion, or share advice in one of my books, or comment on a message board or a blog, or interact via email with authors every day, or speak at a conference, I understand I will be held accountable for my advice in the long run. I want to be held accountable. If the authors trust that my advice is coming from a good place with their best interests at heart, and trust that my advice is well-informed, and they take my advice to heart and profit from it, then they will be rewarded for it with competitive advantage. If I give authors competitive advantage I might earn their goodwill and possibly the privilege to serve them another day at Smashwords. If the author trusts me but I give incompetent advice, or advice that serves me but not them, then I will squander the goodwill and will lose their business. My #1 interest is to earn and deserve the privilege to serve our authors.

I've been criticized quite a bit here at KB for my opposition to KDP Select. Some people have tried to brand me an Amazon hater (I'm not), possibly in an attempt to discredit my message. My message is not anti-Amazon. My point from the beginning has always been that exclusivity is not in the long term interest of authors. Authors might get short term benefit, but at long term costs that might take years to fully manifest. Exclusivity, especially when practiced by a retailer that controls access to 65% of the readers, leads authors to a bad place. I think for some authors, that bad place is starting to come into focus with KU.

I want authors to be successful everywhere, even if the authors don't work with Smashwords. I want Amazon and every other retailer to be successful. The more book-loving booksellers working to connect books with readers the better. I would argue that Amazon's exclusivity strategy isn't just high-risk for authors, it's high-risk for Amazon as well because Amazon risks alienating authors who will conclude that Amazon doesn't have their best interests at heart. We're seeing this unfold today as former Amazon loyalists express their disappointment in Amazon's direction with KDP Select and Kindle Unlimited. The caste system Amazon has built with KDP Select will either succeed at eliminating Amazon's competition, or it will backfire. Or possibly both. All three of these outcomes are bad for authors. I expect it will backfire in the end. Amazon is not going to put Apple or Google out of business, so in the long run all exclusivity will do is build resentment among indies as they understand and experience the tradeoffs and higher risk bets Amazon is forcing them to make. Jeff Bezos is a brilliant long term thinker, so I'm surprised he hasn't thought about the resentment. Or maybe he has and decided that Amazon is powerful enough and KDP Select has reached such critical mass that the decision of any individual author doesn't matter because there will some other author willing to say yes.

The thing is, Amazon doesn't need exclusivity to compete. They've got the best bookstore, the best dedicated e-reading device and the largest audience.

There'd be no KDP Select if indie authors didn't support it. Like I wrote in the last paragraph of the blog, indie authors have the power to support or end KDP Select. Indies created the monster that KDP-S/KU has become. Indies have a choice. Continue feeding it, or embrace diversified distribution.



BillSmithBooksDotCom said:


> ...I think this article may just give more ammo to the brigade that argues "Mark Coker has Amazon Derangement Syndrome and ought to focus on his own business first."


Ha! Yes, I'm sure that will come. When anyone is critical of Smashwords, I don't label them as having Smashwords Derangement Syndrome.  When Smashwords gets critical feedback, I try to listen, find the truth in the criticism and learn from it. Criticism is a blessing if one makes it so. Amazon is the most important retailer in the industry. We need to be able to have a civil, honest discussion about their strenghts and opportunities for improvement.



Vaalingrade said:


> I like how when Coker says things, it's financially motivated and thus can't be trusted.
> 
> But when an author who makes a lot of money says things (in favor of the people who wrote their biggest checks) they're smart and inciteful* and oh-so-special.
> 
> *Not a typo.


Brilliant, thanks. The double standards are rich in irony. I must admit, there are times I wish I could blog anonymously so my comments could be judged on their merit rather than the identify of the messenger. But then I think back to accountability. I want to own my words, blemishes and all.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> I'd argue that KU devalues authors only if those authors choose to feel devalued. Another way to look at it is Amazon saying "go exclusive with us and we'll pay you whenever someone borrows your titles and reads up to 10%." Which is about the length of the downloadable sample. So one would be getting paid for readers to sample my work. Can't get that from a permafree or from a library loan.
> 
> I believe KU is a discoverability tool; a tactic. Not a strategy. I don't think anyone should build their career around KU. But, based on what I've read here and elsewhere from authors who have found success, using KU smartly, as part of your overall bookselling strategy, can have major benefits.


We as working writers are only valued as much as we get paid. Writing for "exposure" or discoverability or whatever inherently devalues us as writers, whatever else it does to our work.

If you believe that KU is a great "discoverability tool," you should take a page from the people writing scamlets, since apparently that's the way to profit with this system.


----------



## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

Steven Konkoly said:


> The landscape is definitely changing, and much of what Mark says is true. Here's where I take some issue.
> 
> "Indies gave KDP Select its critical mass, which means Indies created this monster. Now indies have the power to undo this before it's too late."
> 
> Negative. KDP Select gave many Indies their critical mass in the early Select crazy days. A better way to say it is BookBub and KDP Select gave many Indies their critical mass, me included. I was doing fine before Select, but between 2012-2013, my writing career took off. I watched this happen for many, many authors. I'm not saying we owe anything to Select, but I think Mark got this a little backward.


Fair enough. Both are true. 2012-13 was a time of exponential ebook growth, and a time of tremendous growth at all retailers, not just Amazon. It was a time that the best authors could be successful whether they went KDP-S or full distribution elsewhere.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Joe Vasicek said:


> We as working writers are only valued as much as we get paid.


That's an attitude that I as a working writer am very grateful I do not share.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Joe Vasicek said:


> We as working writers are only valued as much as we get paid. Writing for "exposure" or discoverability or whatever inherently devalues us as writers, whatever else it does to our work.
> 
> If you believe that KU is a great "discoverability tool," you should take a page from the people writing scamlets, since apparently that's the way to profit with this system.


I profit from full novels. I plan to add erotica to the mix when I'm done with the day job in two weeks - but I've made great profit off of novels, and so have quite a few others I know.


----------



## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

YodaRead said:


> I think a blog on Smashwords attacking Amazon is totally legit. Oh, and if you want to talk about devaluing books, shouldn't that discussion start at permafree and then move on to subscription services?


We've been promoting permafree since the beginning of Smashwords. I'm often asked how we can do this (an author emailed me last week and asked if she'd be charged for our bandwidth expenses) without losing money. The answer is that free books help sell priced books. It's a form of sampling, like if you walk into a grocery store and some offers you a taste for free. Readers have unlimited access to thousands of amazing books. How do they choose when most authors are unknown to them? Free makes it easier for these readers to take a risk on an unknown author. When we look at our highest-earning authors at Smashwords, most have at least one free ebook. We've proven that free helps authors earn more, especially when they write series and make the first book permafree. In our 2014 Smashwords survey, we've got an interesting chart that shows how series with free series starters earn more than series without. View it at http://blog.smashwords.com/2014/07/2014-smashwords-survey-reveals-new.html

Also in that survey we reported how free has lost a lot of its mojo. Three or four years ago, back when few authors were harnessing the power of free, it was the golden ticket to discovery and readership. Now that so many people are using it, it's not as effective. Yet it's still effective enough that every author would be well-served to experiment with either free promotions or permafree. A free book today will work better than a free book next month or next year. The secret's out.


----------



## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> I want to add to Zoe's statement.
> 
> The voracious reader will pretty much read anything in their chosen genres as long as it is good and fairly well written.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Cin.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> That's an attitude that I as a working writer am very grateful I do not share.


I think I'll stick with Harlan Ellison on this one.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Joe Vasicek said:


> I think I'll stick with Harlan Ellison on this one.


Video's not entirely relevant, though Ellison's rant about paying the writer is right on. And with KU, the writer's indeed getting paid for borrows.


----------



## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> I'd argue that KU devalues authors only if those authors choose to feel devalued. Another way to look at it is Amazon saying "go exclusive with us and we'll pay you whenever someone borrows your titles and reads up to 10%." Which is about the length of the downloadable sample. So one would be getting paid for readers to sample my work. Can't get that from a permafree or from a library loan.
> 
> I believe KU is a discoverability tool; a tactic. Not a strategy. I don't think anyone should build their career around KU. But, based on what I've read here and elsewhere from authors who have found success, using KU smartly, as part of your overall bookselling strategy, can have major benefits.


Completely agree with this. KU helped me a lot to be "discovered" when I launched my new pen name, since I didn't promote it at all. So far, thanks to KU, in a few weeks I had ~4000 KU borrows and sold ~2000 copies at full price. I don't consider the borrows lost sales because I don't believe they would have been sales. Actually, I don't believe I would have sold even ~2000 copies if I wasn't enrolled in KU. KU borrows helped me get into the Top 10 bestselling books in my sub-genre, giving me a much needed visibility, which translated into sales. 
I don't plan to stay in KU forever. In fact, my next book in the series will not be enrolled in KU, but I'm more than pleased with KU as a discoverability tool.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your insights, darkline. Congrats on your success!


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

zoe tate said:


> Yes; it should.


Math says nope.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> Video's not entirely relevant, though Ellison's rant about paying the writer is right on. And with KU, the writer's indeed getting paid for borrows.


In the same way illegal immigrant laborers get paid, yes.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2014)

All this moaning and groaning reminds me of the old loss-leader battle between grocery stores and milk producers (farmers).

Grocers kept the lowering the price of milk just to get shoppers in their stores.
Milk producers (farmers) finally got tired of being broke and banded together.
They got the government to outlaw the practice of pricing milk below production cost.

But will authors band together?
Nope. We just keep moaning and groaning. Gives us something to read, keeps our blood running through the veins.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Books have a value?? Yea I guess they do 50 cents for hardback at the local thrift store.


Not the same thing at all--that's a secondary market where the books have already been purchased once at retail.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> I want to add to Zoe's statement.
> 
> The voracious reader will pretty much read anything in their chosen genres as long as it is good and fairly well written.
> 
> ...


I agree with you here. I think down the road more discerning readers are going to bypass KU. It's the equivalent (from what I've seen so far) of paying to subscribe to YouTube, especially if the authors with higher production values keep their books out of it.


----------



## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> I profit from full novels. I plan to add erotica to the mix when I'm done with the day job in two weeks - but I've made great profit off of novels, and so have quite a few others I know.


Good luck! I continue to admire the way you've rolled with the market changes as they arose.

I really can't imagine why everyone is still beating their head against this wall. Either figure out how to make it work for you or get over it. The world changed. I would be shocked if Amazon gave a fig what anybody thinks, or if KU was working in any way vastly different from what was planned.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Anne Victory said:


> I agree with you here. I think down the road more discerning readers are going to bypass KU. It's the equivalent (from what I've seen so far) of paying to subscribe to YouTube, especially if the authors with higher production values keep their books out of it.


I dunno, I consider myself a discerning reader and of the 70-odd titles I've read out of KU, most of the indies and tradpub titles are largely indistinguishable from each other. Covers, editing, layout--nothing in most of the indie titles stood out as glaring. Your criteria for high production values may well be different than mine, but so far I've been very satisfied with my KU reading experiences.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Jim Johnson said:


> I dunno, I consider myself a discerning reader and of the 70-odd titles I've read out of KU, most of the indies and tradpub titles are largely indistinguishable from each other. Covers, editing, layout--nothing in most of the indie titles stood out as glaring. Your criteria for high production values may well be different than mine, but so far I've been very satisfied with my KU reading experiences.


Time will tell. And certainly I don't claim to have a crystal ball. But the thing about getting your books from something like KU or a thrift store or equivalent is that you're essentially getting a grab bag. Sure, I can get a sack of 20 books for $5 at a garage sale. If all I want is something to read, great! If I want a book by Jim Butcher or Stephen King, I might or might not get one--probably won't. Chances that it'll be their latest title? Even less.

Programs like KU and such equalize authors--they're selling quantity and general selection of books over quality / specific selection of books. If readers want books by specific authors, then they likely won't find KU to be such a huge bargain, especially, as I said, if their favorite authors are opting out.

And that goes back to the point the Jeff made, that the success or failure of KU is in the hands of authors.

My own thoughts? Amazon will do what's best for Amazon. They might care about the number of books being moved, but they don't care about the number of a specific author's books being moved. To them, one author is the same as any other. That means the best thing authors can do is try to convert readers into fans and then reach those fans independently of Amazon, thus becoming less and less dependent on Amazon's algorithms, program du jour, etc.


----------



## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Anne Victory said:


> Programs like KU and such equalize authors--they're selling quantity and general selection of books over quality / specific selection of books. If readers want books by specific authors, then they likely won't find KU to be such a huge bargain, especially, as I said, if their favorite authors are opting out.


I can only speak for this voracious reader, but I'm quite happy with my KU subscription. It's true I probably read half or less of the KU books I download, but so what? I gave up on a high percentage of books I sampled and too darned many that I bought after sampling in the past. With KU I get the whole book, and if it falls apart after the point I'd have had to buy it in the past, I abandon it gleefully knowing there is no negative financial consequence. It's made me downright cavalier about trying new-to-me-authors.

As to favorite authors - I buy them just as I have in the past. Right now I have half a dozen pre-orders outstanding. KU has absolutely no effect on my behavior toward old favorites.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

ellenoc said:


> I can only speak for this voracious reader, but I'm quite happy with my KU subscription. It's true I probably read half or less of the KU books I download, but so what? I gave up on a high percentage of books I sampled and too darned many that I bought after sampling in the past. With KU I get the whole book, and if it falls apart after the point I'd have had to buy it in the past, I abandon it gleefully knowing there is no negative financial consequence. It's made me downright cavalier about trying new-to-me-authors.
> 
> As to favorite authors - I buy them just as I have in the past. Right now I have half a dozen pre-orders outstanding. KU has absolutely no effect on my behavior toward old favorites.


That's a good thing  Like I said, it's way too soon to see how it'll all play out, but I do think it's similar to the grab-bag analogy. And yeah, I used to find new authors that way all the time. I do hope it helps authors. I know back when I read exclusively paper, I had a few tiers of authors--those who just weren't my thing, those I was happy to read because of said voracious reading habits ;-), and then my favorites, whom I would buy immediately when they released and often pre-ordered. And if that bears out with KU, then fantastic, although I'd probably still be leery about putting all my eggs in the Amazon basket.


----------



## J.D. Fournier (Oct 20, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> I'd argue that KU devalues authors only if those authors choose to feel devalued. Another way to look at it is Amazon saying "go exclusive with us and we'll pay you whenever someone borrows your titles and reads up to 10%." Which is about the length of the downloadable sample. So one would be getting paid for readers to sample my work. Can't get that from a permafree or from a library loan.
> 
> I believe KU is a discoverability tool; a tactic. Not a strategy. I don't think anyone should build their career around KU. But, based on what I've read here and elsewhere from authors who have found success, using KU smartly, as part of your overall bookselling strategy, can have major benefits.


I think the bigger problem writers have is that even those who decide not to join KU are feeling its effects. Sales have dropped off as the voracious readers have flocked to it. Especially as they are giving out free subscriptions left and right.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I am confused by your grab bag analogy.  A grab bag is a sealed bag that you don't know what you getting until you pay for it.  In the thrift store and KU, I pick and choose the books I want to read.  Oh and as far as new releases being in the thrift store, I found Dan Brown's Inferno two weeks after it was released.  

As to favorite authors, I buy them anyway.

Now I won't be keeping KU because I cannot justify the expense.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> I am confused by your grab bag analogy. A grab bag is a sealed bag that you don't know what you getting until you pay for it. In the thrift store and KU, I pick and choose the books I want to read. Oh and as far as new releases being in the thrift store, I found Dan Brown's Inferno two weeks after it was released.


Thanks for asking the question. I had it in mind to ask too but didn't want to go chasing down a rabbit hole.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

My analogy would be more a pot luck.  You don't know what you will find but you hope at least something is tasty.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> My analogy would be more a pot luck. You don't know what you will find but you hope at least something is tasty.


Pot luck is a pretty good analogy. KU's an opportunity for me to sample a wide range of authors and genres. Ten bucks a month for as many stories as I can read, delivered almost instantly to my Kindle? That's a no-brainer win-win for me.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Potluck works for me as an analogy


----------



## scribblr (Aug 20, 2010)

evawallace said:


> As a new author how are you supposed to get noticed other than sell your ass to Amazon? There reach is so much further than anybody elses, and with the kindle taking most of the ebook market your screwed until somebody creates a better platform.


Think about this for a minute: Amazon opened their self-publishing operation in 2007. it wasn't until 2010 that they increased the royalty rate to 70% (actually about 65% when you factor in all the charges such as currency conversion fees, transmission fees, reduced royalties in four stores if you're not exclusive, etc., etc., etc.) and the program really took off. We can thank Steve Jobs of Apple for the real success of the self-pub industry, because it was his announcement about Apple offering to pay authors 70% that forced Amazon to increase their payments to authors from 35%. The higher rate made it extremely attractive to publish on Amazon and Apple. And Apple pays the full 70%. They don't try to chisel pennies off every royalty payment as Amazon does.

The early self-pubbers faced the same problems that current newbies face. Back then we wanted to know how we could get noticed while faced with scores of books from Stephen King, John Grisham, Janet Evanovich, Danielle Steele, Tom Clancy, and hundreds of other A-list authors, and tens of thousands of mid-listers. We didn't have name recognition, PLUS the minimum price we could set was $2.99, and there were NO freebies. Permafree wasn't allowed. In the early days, if you offered the book somewhere else for less than $2.99 Amazon closed your account until you resolved the issue. Over $2.99 they simply price matched. So how did we survive and prosper? We built our fan base one reader at a time, and worked to make our books competitive with the trads. But we did have an advantage in pricing over the trads, if we chose to use it. And most did, although in the early days, prices were usually up around $6.99 to $9.99 for a full-length novel. And readers were willing to pay that if the quality in storytelling was there. And if people enjoyed the book, they told their relatives, and their friends and coworkers. The better the book, the more it was talked up, just like movies. And the more it was talked about, the better it sold. The rest is history.

Things haven't changed so much in the way that authors become popular. It's still the fans that make or break an author. Yes, it certainly helps if a major voice in the industry happens across your work and goes on a personal crusade of sorts to tout your work. But if the quality in storytelling isn't there, that will never happen. (In case someone hasn't realized it, I'm only talking about fiction here.) A LOT of popular authors like to credit freebies and cheap prices for their success, but that's a red herring (without the intent.) It was the FANS, and the quality of the storytelling, that made the author, not the prices. A piece of dreck, priced as a permafree, will not make anyone's career. And unfortunately, people are expecting to become successful authors without making any effort at learning the trade. Some people seem to believe that they can simply throw anything together and get wealthy, or at least make a living. Amazon is reinforcing this idea by demanding more and more content without any regard to quality. Yes, there are diamonds in the rough. It's just difficult to find them at times.

If you've SOLD over a hundred copies of any one book, and no one is buying your books, it's time to study writing. Some people think they can write a book simply because they've been writing notes and letters since they were six-years of age, and texting like a madman or madwoman for the past five years. Sorry, it's not that automatic. Writing is a skill, just as portrait painting is skill. Anyone can buy a piece of framed canvas, some brushes, and paints. But if they've never had any art instruction, is their first work going to look anything like the subject? Not unless the individual is an idiot savant. There's an old saying that you never write anything worthwhile until you've written a million words. The Amazon system loudly proclaims that skill is NOT a factor, which accounts for so many failed books in the system. At this point, someone usually proclaims to possess knowledge of wonderful books that don't sell. Wonderful books do sell. Well-written boring books don't sell.

I see from your response "...There reach is so much further than anybody elses..." to my post that you believe Amazon is the only game in town. That's a myth, fostered by Amazon. Their reach has actually diminished in recent years. At one time they owned 80% of the self-publishing industry. My response is that it doesn't matter which company you use to sell your books. If you write a good book, and manage to sell a hundred copies, you're on your way. If you have one book, and you get a thousand borrows, it's less likely that people will remember your name in several months because they can't look through their Kindle/Epub/Print library to find the book to refresh their memory. If I had to give one additional piece of advice, I'd say never publish the 'very first' book you write, and don't publish at all until you have three books ready to publish. There are allegedly six million ebooks on Amazon. I have no idea if that's true, but I know that most books on Amazon never sell more than a handful of copies. Many were written by people who expected to become great authors, but who were too 'busy' to study writing. Can you achieve success without having good grammar? Yes, but it's more difficult. The people who really love your storytelling won't want to recommend your book because the quality of the book will reflect on their own tastes in literature.

The short answer to your question is: Write a quality book, use all the promotion tools available to you, and once you begin selling, heed the wisdom of Harlan Jay Ellison "Never give your work away for free." If your work is good enough you don't have to. If you work isn't good enough, either study your buns off to acquire the knowledge you need, or find another profession.


----------



## Guest (Dec 24, 2014)

Fascinating, scribblr. Thanks.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Adding to scribblr, 
Or because they didn't sell like hotcakes immediately, they gave up.    The big reason is what scribblr said.  So please write the best book you can.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

darkline said:


> Completely agree with this. KU helped me a lot to be "discovered" when I launched my new pen name, since I didn't promote it at all. So far, thanks to KU, in a few weeks I had ~4000 KU borrows and sold ~2000 copies at full price. I don't consider the borrows lost sales because I don't believe they would have been sales. Actually, I don't believe I would have sold even ~2000 copies if I wasn't enrolled in KU. KU borrows helped me get into the Top 10 bestselling books in my sub-genre, giving me a much needed visibility, which translated into sales.


But can you be absolutely sure that it was KU that did this? I only ask because I first started publishing before KU existed, and shot out of the gate without any promotion at all, just as you did. All I'm saying is that it can happen, and it might not necessarily have anything to do with KU. You might have nailed it with your keywords and categories, for example (which is what I assume I did).


----------



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

darkline said:


> Completely agree with this. KU helped me a lot to be "discovered" when I launched my new pen name, since I didn't promote it at all. So far, thanks to KU, in a few weeks I had ~4000 KU borrows and sold ~2000 copies at full price. I don't consider the borrows lost sales because I don't believe they would have been sales. Actually, I don't believe I would have sold even ~2000 copies if I wasn't enrolled in KU. KU borrows helped me get into the Top 10 bestselling books in my sub-genre, giving me a much needed visibility, which translated into sales.
> I don't plan to stay in KU forever. In fact, my next book in the series will not be enrolled in KU, but I'm more than pleased with KU as a discoverability tool.


I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm just curious. How do you plan to sell your next book in the series on other platforms if the readers can't get the other books? I'm asking because I see a lot of authors say they only put say the first book in KU. I buy a lot of my books on Nook, so I'd probably not buy a book where only part of the series was available, especially if it was in the middle of the series.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

ebooklaunch said:


> Interesting article: http://blog.smashwords.com/2014/12/is-kindle-unlimited-devaluing-books.html
> 
> What are your thoughts?





ebooklaunch said:


> Interesting article: http://blog.smashwords.com/2014/12/is-kindle-unlimited-devaluing-books.html
> 
> What are your thoughts?


He's annoyed because people putting their books in KU means they are pulling them from his place ROFL

Listen its simple math

A. Don't put books in select - make $X amount of dollars
B. Put books in select - make $x amount of dollars

Pick whichever one is working for you and bringing the most money.

Value in your mind has little do with it. Every artist thinks his work should receive top dollar

Reality tells another story. TEST TEST TEST TEST that is all that matters in the marketing end of publishing books.

You can choose not to be in select and pretend you are the next hemmingway and earn nothing or very little or even a lot.

But if you aren't making money, give a shot.


----------



## Davout73 (Feb 20, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> But can you be absolutely sure that it was KU that did this? I only ask because I first started publishing before KU existed, and shot out of the gate without any promotion at all, just as you did. All I'm saying is that it can happen, and it might not necessarily have anything to do with KU. You might have nailed it with your keywords and categories, for example (which is what I assume I did).


Can we be absolutely sure being in KU was why HM Ward and Joe Konraths sales went down? Maybe they screwed up their keywords and categories?

Dav


----------



## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

Davout73 said:


> Can we be absolutely sure being in KU was why HM Ward and Joe Konraths sales went down? Maybe they screwed up their keywords and categories?
> 
> Dav


Or:
- Maybe KU was intended to redistribute some of those sales/borrows across the vast middle
- Maybe they didn't release fast enough
- Maybe their customers' interest was piqued elsewhere
- Maybe their natural run of the serials just done ran out
- Maybe price pressures from competitors made $2.99 for 17K words less attractive
- Maybe it was other people's turn
- Maybe it's a temporary pause and they'll be right back
- Maybe they didn't reconfigure their offerings to make them attractive to KU borrowers in the same way that others did


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Maybe it was cheaper for readers to borrow than to buy.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah lets face it.

HM ward and Joe are smart folks. They aren't wet behind the ears. I have massive respect for them.

They would stay in, if the figures were working out.

Like i said above.

If your book outside of select sales more, than in select. Don't put it in select. Simple as that.

TEST TEST TEST. Try select, good? continue. bad? don't continue. This isn't rocket science.


----------



## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Maybe it was cheaper for readers to borrow than to buy.


If that was the only factor, then they should have had a massive upswing in popularity since they already had presence in the leaderboards.


----------



## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> But can you be absolutely sure that it was KU that did this? I only ask because I first started publishing before KU existed, and shot out of the gate without any promotion at all, just as you did. All I'm saying is that it can happen, and it might not necessarily have anything to do with KU. You might have nailed it with your keywords and categories, for example (which is what I assume I did).


I can't know for sure, of course. But in the first few days I had very little sales; I had many borrows, but they helped me get into the Top 20 in my subgenre, which is when my sales increased. I see no reason to believe I would have gotten the same amount of sales out of the gate (~100 a day) to get into the Top 20. KU makes readers willing to give a new author a try. I'm pretty sure I didn't nail it with my categories and keywords - my books still don't appear in search results for some reason. But I can't know anything for sure, of course. Maybe it was the Word of the Mouth.  It's been about three weeks and my sales rank holds steady.



katrina46 said:


> I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm just curious. How do you plan to sell your next book in the series on other platforms if the readers can't get the other books? I'm asking because I see a lot of authors say they only put say the first book in KU. I buy a lot of my books on Nook, so I'd probably not buy a book where only part of the series was available, especially if it was in the middle of the series.


First of all, my books in the series can stand alone, but I think after the 90 days are over, I'll take the other books out of KU too. I'm still not sure yet. So far KU works for me. I'll probably get a KU All Star bonus this month, which might be enough to partly compensate for "sales cannibalization." I'm not a megaseller like HM Ward, so borrows aren't cannibalizing my income that much.


----------

