# Story Cartel?



## Madeline Freeman (Apr 22, 2011)

Someone just mentioned Story Cartel and I wanted to see who has experience with it. I really would like to get some more reviews for the first book in my trilogy. It's YA paranormal. I don't know if it's particularly difficult to get reviews in that genre or what.


----------



## Samuel Peralta (Dec 31, 2013)

No personal experience, but here's an article from someone who's tried them

http://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/2013/07/how-story-cartel-gave-me-50-honest.html


----------



## Madeline Freeman (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks!


----------



## Paul Kohler (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for sharing that link.  I've not heard of Story Cartel, and I like her review.  I might give it a go myself!


----------



## Zak Voss (Aug 15, 2013)

Paul Kohler said:


> Thanks for sharing that link.


From the linked review, this gives me pause:

"My biggest concern with the service's long-term effectiveness in promoting my book is the fact that the vast majority of the reviews reference the fact that the reviewer had been given a free book."

Is this a real problem? IDK.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Ugh! I really want to use Story Cartel, but the site loads really slowly because it keeps reporting to odd services such as p.twitter and a.weber.  

Zak,

US FCC regulations require reviewers to disclose if they received a free review copy, no matter if it came directly from you or from a service such as Story Cartel.


----------



## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

interesting, tho I suppose if you are in KDP select that would invalidate that


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Never mind. My Internet connection is slow right now. It's probably weather related.


----------



## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

My first gut instinct was to poo-poo this, as it doesn't seem all that different from paying for a review, but reading some of those reviews, it does look like they actually do take the time to read the book before reviewing. The service is also incredibly smart -- they require their reviewers mention them by name. Great way to get free advertisement for themselves.  

Still, it's basically paying for reviews, is it not? Give me a review, and I'll give you a chance to win this... Someone tell me where this is different than flat out paying someone to leave a review?


----------



## melbatron (Dec 8, 2013)

Very interesting. I think I will try it myself! No prior experience, though.


----------



## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

Zak Voss said:


> From the linked review, this gives me pause:
> 
> "My biggest concern with the service's long-term effectiveness in promoting my book is the fact that the vast majority of the reviews reference the fact that the reviewer had been given a free book."
> 
> Is this a real problem? IDK.


In the US, at least, I believe the FTC requires reviewers to admit when they've received any kind of compensation, including a free copy. I might be wrong.


----------



## Rachel Aukes (Oct 13, 2013)

I tried it, and my book just expired. I did no promotion. 33 people downloaded the book, which SC estimates will result in 2-4 reviews. I see one review is on Amazon already, because they said they got the book on Story Cartel. 

I did it for 3 Amazon gift cards. A bit pricey for 33 downloads and a couple reviews. Unless I see several more reviews, I likely won't spend the energy on it again. 

Oh, as for the "paying for reviews" part, I agree that it's a slippery slope (and I'm 100% against paid, fake, sock puppet, and shill reviews). Story Cartel gets around it because there's no direct payment of reviews. Reviewers get a chance to win something. Is that different than how most giveaways are?


----------



## Madeline Freeman (Apr 22, 2011)

I'd think it's not paying for a review because they're not guaranteed a payment for the review. And they could conceivably leave a one-star review and still win a prize. Not everyone who reviews gets the reward. I see it more as an incentive to actually review something in a specified period of time. For example, I did a giveaway on Library Thing and requested Amazon reviews. I think I got one or two reviews out of it.


----------



## Zak Voss (Aug 15, 2013)

KL_Phelps said:


> I suppose if you are in KDP select that would invalidate that


Good point. I'm in Select. So no-go.


----------



## Madeline Freeman (Apr 22, 2011)

Rachel, what genre is the book you put up on SC?


----------



## Rachel Aukes (Oct 13, 2013)

Madeline Freeman said:


> Rachel, what genre is the book you put up on SC?


It was a zombie book (post-apoc sci-fi/horror)


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

jackcrows said:


> Still, it's basically paying for reviews, is it not? Give me a review, and I'll give you a chance to win this... Someone tell me where this is different than flat out paying someone to leave a review?


I see your point.

Perhaps the incentive is mostly a token in this case, though. A chance to win a $10 Amazon gift card is not really a lot of payment, compared with say paying every reviewer $5 or $10 (or $500 in the case of Kirkus).

If it makes you feel better, then you can instead offer up the chance to win one of 5 paperback copies of the book being reviewed. Giving away a copy of the book to be reviewed is specifically allowed in the FCC regulations.


----------



## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

jackcrows said:


> Still, it's basically paying for reviews, is it not? Give me a review, and I'll give you a chance to win this... Someone tell me where this is different than flat out paying someone to leave a review?


Seems to me that it's not paying for reviews, but waiting to hear other opinions.

It's just an incentive structure. Just like if you did giveaways on your facebook page, you aren't paying for clicks. For example, you could set the reward to be free print copies of your book, and free copies of a book in exchange for a review is certainly not paying for a review. Notably, there's no advantage to the reviewer for putting anything except an honest review.

If lots of people didn't read books and just put in a lots of bland reviews in the hopes of winning prizes, then that would be a problem. As long as that doesn't become an issue, then it seems a great service.


----------



## Zak Voss (Aug 15, 2013)

rachelaukes said:


> 33 people downloaded the book, which SC estimates will result in 2-4 reviews ... unless I see several more reviews, I likely won't spend the energy on it again.


That's disappointing, especially for the money spent. Not worth it IMO. Better to put $30 toward cover art or editing.

Still, the fact is, reviews mean sales, (generally) and getting reviews is VERY difficult.


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I'm using it for the second time right now. The book that's up now had 9 reviews at the start and now has 18. I believe there are still 7 days left on my campaign. I'm doing the gift card giveaway option and they mentioned my book in their Christmas email (paid promo). I can't remember how many reviews my first book got, but it was comparable.

One thing I will say is that some of the reviewers can be harsh. You are definitely not guaranteed good review, and in fact I received my first 1 star from this. The reviewer admitted to not reading past the second page so I may mention that to Joe, because I think they're supposed to actually _read_ the books.

On the other hand, I have also received some really awesome reviews from Story Cartel and had some of those readers read most everything else I've written. Some have also become beta readers for me too.

I don't see how using Story Cartel would be paying for reviews. Those who leave reviews are entered into a raffle to receive a prize (gift cards, physical copies, or a kindle). Not every reviewer gets something. I would say that paying for a tour that included reviews would be more of a "paying for reviews" service than this. Not that I'm saying anything is wrong with tours. I'm just addressing the comment that said this was paying for reviews.


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2014)

As soon as Amazon sees THIS, all reviews from Story Cartel will get pulled:


> We help every author on Story Cartel hold a drawing to give their reviewers one of the following prizes of the author's choice: five print copies of their book, three $10 Amazon gift cards, or one Kindle eReader. This is just a small way authors say thank you for reading and reviewing their book.


Amazon's review guidelines are very specific. You cannot get any form of compensation other than the book. The drawings violate Amazon's review TOS. Even a chance in a drawing is something other than the book.

And people will inflate reviews when money is on the line because they will think it will improve their chances of winning. Just like how people buy things even when a contest says "no purchase necessary" because they think that will improve their odds.


----------



## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

rachelaukes said:


> I tried it, and my book just expired. I did no promotion. 33 people downloaded the book, which SC estimates will result in 2-4 reviews. I see one review is on Amazon already, because they said they got the book on Story Cartel.
> 
> I did it for 3 Amazon gift cards. A bit pricey for 33 downloads and a couple reviews. Unless I see several more reviews, I likely won't spend the energy on it again.
> 
> Oh, as for the "paying for reviews" part, I agree that it's a slippery slope (and I'm 100% against paid, fake, sock puppet, and shill reviews). Story Cartel gets around it because there's no direct payment of reviews. Reviewers get a chance to win something. Is that different than how most giveaways are?


Still quid pro quo ... sorta. Like I said, I'm leery of something like this that could come back and bite me in the future, especially if Story Cartel develops a bad rep and there are all those "from Story Cartel" lines in the reviews. But that's just me, I'm playing it safe, I guess.

By the way, Rachel, I'm halfway through your book, and it's pretty awesome. Cash is a blast.


----------



## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> As soon as Amazon sees THIS, all reviews from Story Cartel will get pulled:
> Amazon's review guidelines are very specific. You cannot get any form of compensation other than the book. The drawings violate Amazon's review TOS. Even a chance in a drawing is something other than the book.
> 
> And people will inflate reviews when money is on the line because they will think it will improve their chances of winning. Just like how people buy things even when a contest says "no purchase necessary" because they think that will improve their odds.


I guess it would be interesting to hear Amazon's opinion (what Amazon's guidelines say and what they enforce e.g. permafree are not always the same). What about if the prize is a print copy of the book--I doubt that is the most common prize (as it's likely to be least likely to encourage reviews)--but that doesn't seem to violate Amazon's terms.


----------



## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> As soon as Amazon sees THIS, all reviews from Story Cartel will get pulled:
> Amazon's review guidelines are very specific. You cannot get any form of compensation other than the book. The drawings violate Amazon's review TOS. Even a chance in a drawing is something other than the book.
> 
> And people will inflate reviews when money is on the line because they will think it will improve their chances of winning. Just like how people buy things even when a contest says "no purchase necessary" because they think that will improve their odds.


Ah, see, if that indeed happens, every review with a "Story Cartel" in the body will be easy to find. Just use a search function. I hope it doesn't happen, as people who have used it did it on good faith, and the reviews I've read seemed to be very insightful and thorough (for the most part). But these are the exact pitfalls I am very leery of.


----------



## Madeline Freeman (Apr 22, 2011)

From what I understand, it's good to have a variety of review ratings (i.e. not all 5-star) because it makes all the reviews look more legit. If you have nothing but 5-star reviews, it looks like you had all your friends and family review it. So you might not get all positive reviews (and no matter how good your book is, I don't believe it's possible anyway), but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## Rachel Aukes (Oct 13, 2013)

jackcrows said:


> By the way, Rachel, I'm halfway through your book, and it's pretty awesome. Cash is a blast.


Yay! I'm so happy to hear you're giving the book a shot, and honored to hear that you're enjoying it. *snoopy dance*


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2014)

David J Normoyle said:


> I guess it would be interesting to hear Amazon's opinion (what Amazon's guidelines say and what they enforce e.g. permafree are not always the same). What about if the prize is a print copy of the book--I doubt that is the most common prize (as it's likely to be least likely to encourage reviews)--but that doesn't seem to violate Amazon's terms.


Amazon is fairly hardcore when it decides to enforce the review policies. It seems like they do mass purges every couple of months anymore. It is no secret that they have mass-purged thousands of reviews for a host of policy violations.

The Amazon review policies are actually rather clear. No compensation except for a copy of the book. If you ALREADY got a copy of the book to review, and you "win" a second copy, the second copy is an additional prize and thus a violation.

People read the TOS the way they want Amazon to enforce it instead of the way they actually do. Amazon does purge reviews from sites that pay reviewers or offer reviewers incentives. They purge these reviews all the time. Heck, do a search here on KB for "lost Amazon reviews" or similar wording and you will find dozens of threads on this very topic.

I think it is problematic for the AUTHOR to be offering rewards for reviewers because it is a bribe. Most people will feel guilty leaving a negative review if they are getting something from the author (or even have a chance to get something from the author). It colors the reviewer's capacity to objectively leave a review.

Personally, I think the site itself should be holding drawings. Authors pay to have their books made available (like NetGalley) with no promise of a set number of reviews. Then the site holds weekly or monthly drawings for reviewers. That way, the reviewer feels no specific obligation to the author because it isn't the author giving away the gift.


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

Joe here from Story Cartel. Great conversation. I'd be happy to answer any additional question. We haven't had many issues with Amazon but we're always monitoring how they're treating reviews that come from Story Cartel, but this is good feedback and something we'll take into strong consideration.



Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Personally, I think the site itself should be holding drawings. Authors pay to have their books made available (like NetGalley) with no promise of a set number of reviews. Then the site holds weekly or monthly drawings for reviewers. That way, the reviewer feels no specific obligation to the author because it isn't the author giving away the gift.


I love this idea. Thanks so much for the suggestion, David. So you think it would be within Amazon's TOS if Story Cartel managed the drawings on our end?


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

joebunting said:


> Joe here from Story Cartel. Great conversation. I'd be happy to answer any additional question. We haven't had many issues with Amazon but we're always monitoring how they're treating reviews that come from Story Cartel, but this is good feedback and something we'll take into strong consideration.
> 
> I love this idea. Thanks so much for the suggestion, David. So you think it would be within Amazon's TOS if Story Cartel managed the drawings on our end?


Joe,

Thank you so much for taking the time to stop by! Welcome to KBoards. 

It was Julie who suggested that Story Cartel should manage the drawings, not David. I agree this is a good idea. No one but Amazon knows if they will approve or not, though. Why not ask them?

Question:

I just signed one of my books up on your site today! I want to sign up for my giveaway to appear in the newsletter that you send to subscribers. Do I sign up for that now, or do I wait to see if you approve my giveaway or not?


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> ....Then the site holds weekly or monthly drawings for reviewers.


Or hourly!


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Joe,

Here is a question that Stacy indirectly asked you:



Stacy Claflin said:


> One thing I will say is that some of the reviewers can be harsh. You are definitely not guaranteed good review, and in fact I received my first 1 star from this. The reviewer admitted to not reading past the second page so I may mention that to Joe, because I think they're supposed to actually _read_ the books.


----------



## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

joebunting said:


> I love this idea. Thanks so much for the suggestion, David. So you think it would be within Amazon's TOS if Story Cartel managed the drawings on our end?


I'm sorry, but why are you asking David or anyone if this is within Amazon's TOS? Shouldn't you already know this, or inquired with Amazon directly? All anyone here can do is guess and try to read Amazon's intentions. Since you're the site's owner, I would ASSUME you had cleared this with them.

Like I mentioned previously, if the mighty Zon wants to cleanse Story Cartel reviews, it's easy -- they would just search for your site's name, which, my guess is, you require the reviewers to leave. Clever, that.


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks for pointing that out, Cherise! Thanks JULIE (but also thanks David for the earlier comment)!

Definitely sign up for the featured spot now, if you can. We have a very limited number of these and we're booked through all of January (although I think one spot just opened up), so if you can grab your newsletter spot now, I'd do it (the url is http://storycartel.com/pricing).



Stacy Claflin said:


> One thing I will say is that some of the reviewers can be harsh. You are definitely not guaranteed good review, and in fact I received my first 1 star from this. The reviewer admitted to not reading past the second page so I may mention that to Joe, because I think they're supposed to actually _read_ the books.


What a lame review! I'm so sorry about that Stacy! We absolutely ask them to read the book before they review. Some people choose not to follow through, which is unfortunate. :/ We choose to trust our readers, which of course, brings risk (and sometimes disappointment), but I think it's the only way to build lasting relationship.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

joebunting said:


> Definitely sign up for the featured spot now, if you can. We have a very limited number of these and we're booked through all of January (although I think one spot just opened up), so if you can grab your newsletter spot now, I'd do it (the url is http://storycartel.com/pricing).


OK, I signed up!

One glitch:

I paid with PayPal, but got taken to a screen to sign up to pay with Masterpass afterward. I would have preferred to be taken to an order confirmation screen. Now I am unsure if my sign-up took or not.


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> OK, I signed up!
> 
> One glitch:
> 
> I paid with PayPal, but got taken to a screen to sign up to pay with Masterpass afterward. I would have preferred to be taken to an order confirmation screen. Now I am unsure if my sign-up took or not.


Oops! I think you might have mis-clicked, Cherise. I'm not seeing your order. Send me a note a support (at) story cartel (dot) com, and I'll make sure we get this taken care of for you.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

joebunting said:


> Oops! I think you might have mis-clicked, Cherise. I'm not seeing your order. Send me a note a support (at) story cartel (dot) com, and I'll make sure we get this taken care of for you.


Note sent!


----------



## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

joebunting said:


> I love this idea. Thanks so much for the suggestion, David. So you think it would be within Amazon's TOS if Story Cartel managed the drawings on our end?


Thanks for calling in. I'd be great if you could get clarification from Amazon on whether or not they are okay with your system, and if not whether you can tweak it to make it okay. Looks like you have the potential to have a great service here.


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2014)

joebunting said:


> I love this idea. Thanks so much for the suggestion, David. So you think it would be within Amazon's TOS if Story Cartel managed the drawings on our end?


I don't work for Amazon. I can only extrapolate based off of their past behavior. However, if the drawings are not tied to any particular review, then the reviewers are not being compensated. The most important thing is to not tie rewards to specific reviews. In particular, if the drawings are open to all members, regardless of number of reviews. I think this is the key factor. For example, you might say that all members get one ticket a month that they can use to enter a single drawing. Requesting a book for review, any book, earns you a second ticket. Submitted a review to Story Cartel earns another ticket. So long as there is a method that people not writing reviews can still enter drawings, you can't be accused per se of quid pro quo. Further, I would not reward tickets for POSTING reviews on Amazon or elsewhere (because then you are tying tickets/entries to behavior that directly impacts Amazon.) But in reality, a person who goes to the trouble of writing a review will most likely chose to post it elsewhere on their own accord anyway. So you get the same result without the overt carrot.


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I don't work for Amazon. I can only extrapolate based off of their past behavior. However, if the drawings are not tied to any particular review, then the reviewers are not being compensated. The most important thing is to not tie rewards to specific reviews. In particular, if the drawings are open to all members, regardless of number of reviews. I think this is the key factor. For example, you might say that all members get one ticket a month that they can use to enter a single drawing. Requesting a book for review, any book, earns you a second ticket. Submitted a review to Story Cartel earns another ticket. So long as there is a method that people not writing reviews can still enter drawings, you can't be accused per se of quid pro quo. Further, I would not reward tickets for POSTING reviews on Amazon or elsewhere (because then you are tying tickets/entries to behavior that directly impacts Amazon.) But in reality, a person who goes to the trouble of writing a review will most likely chose to post it elsewhere on their own accord anyway. So you get the same result without the overt carrot.


Yeah, that's how I read the rules, too, Julie. Brilliant ideas. I think we're going to move in that direction very soon. Thanks so much for the idea!


----------



## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

ok, I'm not in general very bright.  I've signed up for Story Cartel and uploaded copies of my ARC (which contains a bonus story). Do I understand from your pages that I'm responsible for advertising this myself? I put a notice on my web site, and sent a mailchimp notice out, but I have a very small list (and I'm not sure anybody ever looks at my web page).  I was going to get an ad in your newsletter, but it's apparently all sold out. Do you keep copies of the book so that I could get an ad in your February newsletter?


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2014)

joebunting said:


> What a lame review! I'm so sorry about that Stacy! We absolutely ask them to read the book before they review. Some people choose not to follow through, which is unfortunate. :/ We choose to trust our readers, which of course, brings risk (and sometimes disappointment), but I think it's the only way to build lasting relationship.


I think if you want long term credibility as a service provider, you will need to be willing to cut off members who abuse the system. Don't be afraid to set minimum standards. Netgalley, for example, does not accept every person that wants to review. You have to meet certain minimum requirements. Your service depends on your credibility. If you build a reputation for only generating one line "this sucks I didn't read it" reviews, nobody NEEDS you for that. They can get that from a free Goodreads giveaway. 

The important thing is to have rules in place, and then ENFORCE those rules. Enforcement is always where folks get tripped up, because nobody wants to be the "bad guy." But if someone is abusing the system, they shouldn't be allowed to do so because it ruins it for everyone. If authors think you only generate junk reviews, then they won't submit books, which means your honest reviewers miss out.

I don't know if this is possible with your site, but if reviewers submit reviews to the site, perhaps there is a way to show the reviews by reviewer? You could even set up a two-tier system for publishers. Tier One makes the book available to anyone who wants to review it, and you take your chances. Tier Two gives the publisher right of refusal on a review request. So if someone requests a title, but the publisher looks and see this person has posted five "I didn't finish the book" reviews or something like that, they can reject the request. The second tier may require more effort to administer on your part, but then you can charge a higher fee to compensate for the increase in administrative time.


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

beccaprice said:


> ok, I'm not in general very bright. I've signed up for Story Cartel and uploaded copies of my ARC (which contains a bonus story). Do I understand from your pages that I'm responsible for advertising this myself? I put a notice on my web site, and sent a mailchimp notice out, but I have a very small list (and I'm not sure anybody ever looks at my web page). I was going to get an ad in your newsletter, but it's apparently all sold out. Do you keep copies of the book so that I could get an ad in your February newsletter?


Hi Becca. I'm sure that's not true. These are great questions. All of this marketing stuff is new for most of us authors, so it's a lot to learn.

Story Cartel is a crowdsourcing platform, sort of like a Kickstarter for reviews. You're in charge of promoting your page so it gets the traction you want, but we'll do our best to help, too, by including your book in our new release section, and making sure your book appears to people interested in your genre. Getting a spot in the newsletter is a great way to increase visibility, but yes, unfortunately only have a limited number of spots (don't want to overwhelm readers) and we're currently sold out. Send me a note at support (at) story cartel (dot) com though and I'll see if we get you on our waiting list for February.

Thanks Becca.


----------



## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

Note sent. Part of my problem is that I'm rather isolated, and don't have a very big mailing list (14, one of which is my test email), and so trying to "crowd source" anything for me is rather an exercise in futility. Still, I've put it on my FB page, my website, and sent a newsletter out to all 14 people on my list! <g>


----------



## Rachel Aukes (Oct 13, 2013)

joebunting said:


> Story Cartel is a crowdsourcing platform, sort of like a Kickstarter for reviews. You're in charge of promoting your page so it gets the traction you want, but we'll do our best to help, too, by including your book in our new release section, and making sure your book appears to people interested in your genre.


I did absolutely no promotion saying my book was available on Story Cartel (other than a Facebook and Twitter mention) and still had 33 downloads, so I don't consider my first attempt a failure, not for just "throwing it out there". I think promotion would've brought up that number significantly.


----------



## zandermarks (May 20, 2013)

Hi Joe! Thanks for stopping by!

To be honest, I don't think that you want your long-term fortunes to be tied to Amazon's policy. It may be a way to attract authors to the platform initially, but eventually I'd want to look for ways to get away from that external dependency. You don't want to be in the position of giving a third party (especially when the third party owns Goodreads and may therefore view you as a competitor) the power to damage your model.

There's already plenty of potential inducement built into the model. You are providing readers with an opportunity to access books in their favorite genres, providing authors with access to new readers, and I assume developing a core of reviews.

One question--I see where I can search genres for free books, but my own interest would be to search genres for well-reviewed books, regardless of whether they are free or not. If you are collecting data on how books are performing with readers, this seems like it would be a logical extension. Maybe that's already behind the registration wall, but I didn't see it during my initial once-over.


----------



## Jo Clendening (Apr 9, 2011)

Well, I'm intrigued as a reader. I just signed up, although I didn't check if it matters that I am Canadian? Either way, I'll still read and review.


----------



## Issy (Aug 25, 2013)

jclendening said:


> Well, I'm intrigued as a reader. I just signed up, although I didn't check if it matters that I am Canadian? Either way, I'll still read and review.


Intrigued also, and signed up, but like you I didn't check - I'm UK. Is that an issue as a writer offering $ giftcards?


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

jclendening said:


> Well, I'm intrigued as a reader. I just signed up, although I didn't check if it matters that I am Canadian? Either way, I'll still read and review.


We love Canadians. Well, all readers, really. But especially Canadians.  Welcome to the Cartel!



beccaprice said:


> Note sent. Part of my problem is that I'm rather isolated, and don't have a very big mailing list (14, one of which is my test email), and so trying to "crowd source" anything for me is rather an exercise in futility. Still, I've put it on my FB page, my website, and sent a newsletter out to all 14 people on my list! <g>


I hear you. A few years ago I was in the same spot (e.g. I blogged every day, and a good day traffic wise was 10 views!). Story Cartel can be a really great way to build that list and build more buzz around your books. I think it will be a good experience for you. 



zandermarks said:


> Hi Joe! Thanks for stopping by!
> 
> To be honest, I don't think that you want your long-term fortunes to be tied to Amazon's policy. It may be a way to attract authors to the platform initially, but eventually I'd want to look for ways to get away from that external dependency. You don't want to be in the position of giving a third party (especially when the third party owns Goodreads and may therefore view you as a competitor) the power to damage your model.
> 
> ...


Of course! And yes, very good feedback. We've found that getting Amazon reviews is one of the best marketing effort authors can do, and so to help authors the most, that's where we're putting most of our energy. Of course, as long as it's beneficial for authors, we're definitely open to branching out. We're very aware of the risks, but our main goal is just to help authors as best we can. This is just the way we've found works right now, but yes, it might not be sustainable forever.

I love your question. Unfortunately, right now it's tricky to get that kind of data because it's all on Amazon's end. Another peril of building a platform that focuses on someone else's platform. We're exploring ways to have more of that data on our end, but development takes time and money and we're still a very small company. Still, we expect to have something like that in the next 6 months. Thanks so much for your thoughts! Keep them coming.


----------



## zandermarks (May 20, 2013)

joebunting said:


> I love your question. Unfortunately, right now it's tricky to get that kind of data because it's all on Amazon's end.


Ah. Gotcha. I knew you were encouraging reviews on Amazon, but I assumed you were also maintaining a repository of reviews and ratings.


----------



## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

I just tried to list a new release to garner some reviews, and everything went fine until the form called for a .pdf file. ...sigh... Off to figure out how to create one.


----------



## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

jackcrows said:


> Ah, see, if that indeed happens, every review with a "Story Cartel" in the body will be easy to find. Just use a search function. I hope it doesn't happen, as people who have used it did it on good faith, and the reviews I've read seemed to be very insightful and thorough (for the most part). But these are the exact pitfalls I am very leery of.


The people who used the site may have done it on good faith, but the question is whether or not Story Cartel did? They must know that they are at least dancing on the edge of Amazon's TOS.


----------



## Guest (Jan 8, 2014)

Clearly, the policy is in question.

*Victoria*


----------



## joebunting (Jan 7, 2014)

EC Sheedy said:


> I just tried to list a new release to garner some reviews, and everything went fine until the form called for a .pdf file. ...sigh... Off to figure out how to create one.


Hi EC. Sorry about that! We ask for PDFs because it's the easiest way for people to read your book on their iPad and computer screen. Here's a quick guide on creating one:

http://storycartel.com/assemble#pdf

Let me know if you need anything else!


----------



## belindaf (Jan 27, 2011)

Has the potential violation of Amazon's TOS been addressed with Amazon, yet? I'm always a fan of trying new marketing ideas, but am afraid until Amazon gives its blessing.


----------



## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

How is this service better than just doing a LibraryThing giveaway or Goodreads giveaway?


----------



## storycartel (Sep 24, 2013)

belindaf said:


> Has the potential violation of Amazon's TOS been addressed with Amazon, yet? I'm always a fan of trying new marketing ideas, but am afraid until Amazon gives its blessing.


Just wanted to let you know that we've just launched the latest version of Story Cartel and have changed the way we handle giveaways to better comply with Amazon's TOS (we still feel confident that we weren't in violation, but we wanted to be safe). Story Cartel now does sitewide giveaways, rather than giveaways for specific books. And authors pay a small up front fee to pay for rewards and site maintenance rather than paying for the giveaways after their launch.

Please let me know if you have any more questions or ideas!


----------



## Guest (Mar 21, 2014)

storycartel said:


> Just wanted to let you know that we've just launched the latest version of Story Cartel and have changed the way we handle giveaways to better comply with Amazon's TOS (we still feel confident that we weren't in violation, but we wanted to be safe). Story Cartel now does sitewide giveaways, rather than giveaways for specific books. And authors pay a small up front fee to pay for rewards and site maintenance rather than paying for the giveaways after their launch.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any more questions or ideas!


Thank you for addressing the concerns noted here. Sounds like a much more productive (and safer) process for everyone!


----------



## storycartel (Sep 24, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Thank you for addressing the concerns noted here. Sounds like a much more productive (and safer) process for everyone!


Agreed, Julie. I think it's going to be a good thing for everyone. We're really excited about it. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Guest (Mar 27, 2014)

storycartel said:


> Agreed, Julie. I think it's going to be a good thing for everyone. We're really excited about it. Thanks for your help.


I've used Story Cartel in the past. I went to your site just now to find out how the new system works, but you have NO information for authors about fees or ANYTHING. I guess if I logged in or someone signs up they can get more details, but that's ridiculous. Why can't you be transparent about how your site works, with specific details, BEFORE someone signs up? I hate that you do it this way, that's how I got sucked into using your site last time. Not a complete waste of time but you should have been up front about the cost to authors. I don't like this.


----------



## James Bruno (Mar 15, 2011)

StoryCartel is an interesting concept and I sure do hope they can give the likes of Bookbub a run for their money. I used SC for my last novel. I received three reviews, one from an acquaintance. I just signed up my new release -- a nonfiction work -- taking advantage of their 50% discount. For 15 bucks, it's worth a try. But I doubt I'll use SC again if I receive no, or few, reviews. I actually do better on Amazon. 

Just one suggestion: I find SC's site glitchy. E.g., it repeatedly rejected the Amazon link I cut and pasted numerous times, and it wouldn't complete the processing of my mobi, epub and pdf uploads. Only after re-uploading repeatedly did the site finally accept them. These files were all prepared by a professional formatter I've been working with for years.


----------



## Hudson Owen (May 18, 2012)

James Bruno said:


> StoryCartel is an interesting concept and I sure do hope they can give the likes of Bookbub a run for their money. I used SC for my last novel. I received three reviews, one from an acquaintance. I just signed up my new release -- a nonfiction work -- taking advantage of their 50% discount. For 15 bucks, it's worth a try. But I doubt I'll use SC again if I receive no, or few, reviews. I actually do better on Amazon.
> 
> Just one suggestion: I find SC's site glitchy. E.g., it repeatedly rejected the Amazon link I cut and pasted numerous times, and it wouldn't complete the processing of my mobi, epub and pdf uploads. Only after re-uploading repeatedly did the site finally accept them. These files were all prepared by a professional formatter I've been working with for years.


Glitchy, yeah. Three reviews for me, too. They've offered to manually install my latest ebook. I told them I'll wait until they fix things. First run with them went smoothly.


----------



## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

People have mentioned that using Story Cartel would be a no-no for books enrolled in Select. Does anyone know if that is actually the case? I can't see why it should be since reviewers are the only ones able access the books for free, and only for a limited time (3 weeks).

Philip


----------



## MQ (Jan 5, 2011)

I used it in February. I blogged, tweeted, bought a facebook ad, and it resulted in 26 downloads. From it I got *1* review.

I won't be using it until I see better results.


----------



## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

Has anyone else used Story Cartel since the changes were made?


----------



## komura 420 (Aug 25, 2013)

But whats a struggling new writer to do?  Play by the rules?

I'm gonna go see that voodoo woman again, next time I'm back in N'awlins.  She took care of dat other thing last year I was tellin you bout.


----------

