# Reviews: a brick wall I can't break through



## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

I read the posts from authors sharing their success with various promotions and feel quite helpless. I have been rejected by every promotional venue I’ve approached that requires a book to be approved by the administrators of the sites. (I assume they’re rejecting me because I have so few reviews compared to the other applicants.) Most of the promotional sites are beyond my reach because of their minimum-number-of-reviews requirements.

I’ve given away around 5,000 free books. I’ve done Goodreads giveaways. I’ve approached bloggers. I did an expensive, time-consuming blog tour which was such a failure that I must assume that route is the wrong path. I remain under-reviewed.

When one of my books which had no reviews was hit with a two-star bomb, a sympathetic author friend asked me if I had any friends or relatives who could post good reviews that would alleviate the situation.  I’m not going there . . . 

I’ve seen newly released books come out with a nice set of five-star non-verified-purchase customer reviews on their first day out. I don’t know where those reviews are coming from. I’m mystified. (Some of them seem to be from ARC readers. Aren’t those people paid to read books?) 

I know a great many authors struggle with the same problem. I don’t think there’s any solution, but I thought I’d post this in case anyone has a magic formula for getting reviews which they would like to share.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

ARC reviewers give reviews for free copies of the book, not payment.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

If it's sci-fi, I'm game.



but be warned, I will be fair.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Borrows don't show up as verified purchase. That is the source of many unverified reviews.

ARC readers get a free copy of the book in exchange for an honest review. While ARC stands for advanced reader copy, people typically use the word to mean review copy and often send out ARCs after the book is live.

Most people who have reviews on launch day have a team of ARC readers. This takes time, money, and energy in some combination. You can use a service like Book Razor, but you're not guaranteed reviews, only emails.

I have 100 people on my official ARC mailing list. Some I got from my regular mailing list (which is about 1/3 regular sign ups and 2/3 paid promotions), others from including a "sign up as an ARC" link in my backmatter, and others from cold messaging people on GR who liked similar books and asking them to review (I didn't have any issues with this but GR does warn against it).

It's a numbers game. People who are launching with 50 reviews took a long time building those ARC relationships. I spent hours and hours finding possible reviewers and messaging them on GR and ended up with about 20-30 reviews.

One thing to keep in mind is that only about 1/3-1/2 of ARCs will end up leaving a review, so you want to shoot for my potential reviewers than you want. I don't count on getting reviews from borrows, sales, or freebies (and I don't check my reviews in enough detail to see what my ratio of wild reviews to ARC reviews is), because so few people actually leave reviews. If I want 50 reviews, I plan on sending out 150 ARCs.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> ARC reviewers give reviews for free copies of the book, not payment.


Thanks for the clarification. When I tried to find ARC readers for my WIP, I was approached by people who wanted to be paid to read my work, hence my suspicions.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

geronl said:


> If it's sci-fi, I'm game.
> 
> 
> 
> but be warned, I will be fair.


Not sci-fi, but thanks for offering.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> Thanks for the clarification. When I tried to find ARC readers for my WIP, I was approached by people who wanted to be paid to read my work, hence my suspicions.


ARC readers don't get a WIP, they get the finished, polished product to review.

What about your critique partners and beta readers, have you approached them about providing honest reviews? Or Goodreads R4R groups? There are numerous ones, find some that match your genre.

Are you trying to find reviews for your first book, or do you have multiple books out? If you have a catalogue, ask your mailing list who wants a free ARC in exchange for an honest review. if it's your first book, then personally I wouldn't be worried. I'm not looking at reviews or promotion until I have 3 books out in my series.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

Crystal_ said:
 

> Borrows don't show up as verified purchase. That is the source of many unverified reviews.
> 
> ARC readers get a free copy of the book in exchange for an honest review. While ARC stands for advanced reader copy, people typically use the word to mean review copy and often send out ARCs after the book is live.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your experience. You have more courage than I do . . . there can be quite a lot of hostility directed at Goodreads authors who cold-message members. I'm glad you weren't punished for doing that.


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## abgwriter (Sep 12, 2015)

Have you tried theindieview.com? This page lists book bloggers and reviewers that will review your book for free in exchange for a review copy. My blog is part of it because I have a review section and you have a ton of choices in there. What genre is your book and what is it about? Maybe I can take a look and you'll get a review from me. If it's Romance or fantasy I'm in.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Nimrodish said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience. You have more courage than I do . . . there can be quite a lot of hostility directed at Goodreads authors who cold-message members. I'm glad you weren't punished for doing that.


I targeted my readers very carefully (rated a similar book 4 or 5 stars and had an average over 4 stars) and tried to focus on people who said they accepted ARC copies in their reviews or profiles. And I was clear that I was offering a free copy if they were interested, very careful not to seem like I was selling anything. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, though I do know some authors who messaged hundreds to build ARC lists for new pen names.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

AliceWE said:


> ARC readers don't get a WIP, they get the finished, polished product to review.
> 
> What about your critique partners and beta readers, have you approached them about providing honest reviews? Or Goodreads R4R groups? There are numerous ones, find some that match your genre.
> 
> Are you trying to find reviews for your first book, or do you have multiple books out? If you have a catalogue, ask your mailing list who wants a free ARC in exchange for an honest review. if it's your first book, then personally I wouldn't be worried. I'm not looking at reviews or promotion until I have 3 books out in my series.


Sorry . . . I'm tired and I confused Beta with ARC. It's been a long day.

There are no Goodreads R4R groups that match my genre; I've looked. I have no mailing list. I keep seeing people here talking about their mailing lists and I have no idea how they come up with the email addresses of people who are interested in their work.

No critique partners or beta readers. That's not my choice; that's just the way it is.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

abgwriter said:


> Have you tried theindieview.com? This page lists book bloggers and reviewers that will review your book for free in exchange for a review copy. My blog is part of it because I have a review section and you have a ton of choices in there. What genre is your book and what is it about? Maybe I can take a look and you'll get a review from me. If it's Romance or fantasy I'm in.


Thanks; I'll take a look at that site. I have one novel (first in a series, but it can be read as a standalone) that's fantasy, but there's zero romance in it. In fact, there aren't even any humans to speak of; it's all animals. Did you ever read and enjoy "Watership Down"? My book is the same genre/type.


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## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

You build your mailing list by using a service like MailChimp and putting the sign-up on your website. Do you have a website yet? If not you need to get that going. Get your site up, get your branding in place. Make yourself look like a professional writer! By the way, why are you being so secretive about your genre? Why don't you link to your books?


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

I never trust five star reviews given on the day of publication, especially when the book is pretty awful. 

Am I the only one not worrying about reviews? It seems that everywhere I look there are authors asking 'how do I get reviews'? Patience is your best tool. As Mark said, try to build up a mailing list, get a website going - they are really easy with sitebuilders online and are either free or you can pay a small amount for a domain name. Get a blog going; offer some books for free in exchange for mailing list sign ups. Don't waste your money on promotion sites which obviously think they are too important to take it; spend it on Facebook ads for your mailing list. Watch Mark Dawson's free videos on the subject first, to be quite sure you target the right audience. I have found that to be my very best promotion ever as since I started the ad giving away three books to subscribers, sales of all my other books have shot up.


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## Felix R. Savage (Mar 3, 2011)

I love Watership Down. I'll read and review it if you like. (But if I find myself not wanting to read on, I will stop and tell you why instead of leaving a bad review.)


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## Richard Horsley (Sep 15, 2015)

Finding people to read and review from ARC's can be hard work. I found some success through Facebook readers groups, but even then only about 40% of the people who received ARC's actually reviewed (a lot of people just looking for freebies). It is worth tapping up people on Twitter and Facebook if you are so inclined, there are a lot of people in groups that are more than happy to hand out copies to their book clubs to provide feedback / reviews.

Rich


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

DarkarNights said:


> You build your mailing list by using a service like MailChimp and putting the sign-up on your website. Do you have a website yet? If not you need to get that going. Get your site up, get your branding in place. Make yourself look like a professional writer! By the way, why are you being so secretive about your genre? Why don't you link to your books?


I'm not being secretive about my genres; just my identity. I'm shy and I've seen people being cruel here (a very small minority, but impressive all the same). Back when I used to frequent Goodreads, I'd see authors being carpet-bombed with one-star ratings because of something they said in a forum. I don't have enough reviews that I can survive one-star attacks (in the event that I say something that someone disagrees with, which I will). I'd love to show my books and ask for feedback on the new covers, but I can't do that; I just can't.

I have a blog. It's boring. I say nothing. When I told stories about my weird life and griped about the present system of customer reviews for books I got a lot of hits but then I thought, nah . . . I don't think I'm attracting the right people. I have a Facebook page with 1100 followers who apparently love to read books written by anyone other than myself. I give them pictures of cats; they like that (and so do I). When I post anything about my books, they ignore it.

My genres are as follows:

fantasy in the vein of Richard Adams (though I'm not anywhere near the genius he is; no one is!)
thriller/mystery/horror with a supernatural villain (combined genres in one book)
comic mystery with a little supernatural stuff

I realize that's a lot of genres for one writer, but there is a common thread of the supernatural and the unique power of animals running through them.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

Felix R. Savage said:


> I love Watership Down. I'll read and review it if you like. (But if I find myself not wanting to read on, I will stop and tell you why instead of leaving a bad review.)


Thank you! I'll get back to you when I'm not exhausted. It's 2am here and I haven't had dinner yet.


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## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

I can understand your hesitance about Goodreads, you have to remember that site is primarily for readers and not authors. Readers like to think they want to interact with their authors on a forum level, however the reality of that can get ugly when the authors don't live up to their expectations by posting something they disagree with.

The Writer's Cafe is a place for authors though. In the two months I've been here I've seen mostly nice, helpful, and honest authors who love helping other authors learn and achieve. I think you could benefit from open up more here and actually sharing your books. It's hard to give you advice about what might be wrong when everything is a mystery. The reason you are not getting reviews might stem from a problem with your covers, your blurbs, or your categories, or any number of things that might stick out like a sore thumb to one of the veterans around.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

Doglover said:


> Am I the only one not worrying about reviews? It seems that everywhere I look there are authors asking 'how do I get reviews'? *Patience is your best tool.* As Mark said, try to build up a mailing list, get a website going - they are really easy with sitebuilders online and are either free or you can pay a small amount for a domain name. Get a blog going; offer some books for free in exchange for mailing list sign ups. *Don't waste your money on promotion sites which obviously think they are too important to take it; spend it on Facebook ads for your mailing list.* Watch Mark Dawson's free videos on the subject first, to be quite sure you target the right audience. I have found that to be my very best promotion ever as since I started the ad giving away three books to subscribers, sales of all my other books have shot up.


Margaret, I love that this is working for you, and I love that you're having success with it without having to spend tons of money and without making it more complicated than it needs to be. (I've bookmarked all of your posts on this.)

I have yet to start my Facebook ads, but I look forward to it.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Margaret, I love that this is working for you, and I love that you're having success with it without having to spend tons of money and without making it more complicated than it needs to be. (I've bookmarked all of your posts on this.)
> 
> I have yet to start my Facebook ads, but I look forward to it.


Jolie, I don't know what I did right, but yes, things seem ok. I don't like to tempt fate, and I wish I had more to spend. I did a week on $10 a day for the mailing list and doubled the number of new subscribers, but I can't do that indefinitely and run my ad for my boxed set. I want to keep that going for a little while longer, at least until Christmas.

I redid the boxed set ad at the weekend and instead of it linking straight to Amazon, I spent some time building a website for all the characters in the books. It could be coincidence, but it seems to be doing more in the way of sales than it was before.

I do hope your ads do well when you get them up and running. Let me know.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

Doglover said:


> Jolie, I don't know what I did right, but yes, things seem ok. I don't like to tempt fate, and I wish I had more to spend. I did a week on $10 a day for the mailing list and doubled the number of new subscribers, but I can't do that indefinitely and run my ad for my boxed set. I want to keep that going for a little while longer, at least until Christmas.
> 
> I redid the boxed set ad at the weekend and instead of it linking straight to Amazon, I spent some time building a website for all the characters in the books. It could be coincidence, but it seems to be doing more in the way of sales than it was before.
> 
> I do hope your ads do well when you get them up and running. Let me know.


Excellent news! 

Yep, I'll let you know. I'm starting my Facebook ads the first week of November.


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## jrwilson (Apr 7, 2015)

Even if you don't take any measures to get reviews, they will probably show up organically if you are willing to wait (could be awhile though).  Either way, good luck.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

You simply must build a mailing list. It's something I resisted for a long time too. But now I've gotten over my stubborness. It's the single best way to build an audience and get reviews.

- Set up a mailing list account at a place like Mailchimp
- Include the link to your mailing list in the FRONT and BACK of your book. 
- If you're in KU consider a free run. That can help you get mailing list sign ups & reviews. 
- Write the next book
- When your second book comes out, send a message to your mailing list.

Here's a nice blog post from David Gaughran on the basics of mailing lists: 
https://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/the-author-with-the-biggest-mailing-list-wins/

Things are a lot harder now then they were in the beginning. You can't just throw a book up on Kindle and wait for the reviews to roll in. Getting them is hard work.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

jrwilson said:


> Even if you don't take any measures to get reviews, they will probably show up organically if you are willing to wait (could be awhile though). Either way, good luck.


My point exactly. To tell the truth, until I joined kdp as an author, I had no idea one could leave reviews. I read a book ages ago by a very famous author and I was really frustrated that she had made this horrendous historical mistake and there was no web page or email address or anything. It wasn't till recently I realised I could put my points across in a review.

Reviews really aren't that important, at least I don't think so, certainly not with all the suspicious looking five star ones.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

I didn't send out ARCs this time because the last time I did it, the reviews were voted down, probably because they stated they had received a copy free prior to publication as per Amazon's terms and conditions, which I asked them to make clear so Amazon wouldn't remove them.

I don't like asking for reviews anyway, so I thought I'd see if they would come in organically this time as most have on my other books, though you have to be patient. They haven't come in, so I'm in the same boat as you  now with my new release, the first in my signature.  Three weeks in and I have no reviews, so it precludes me applying to many of the worthwhile promotion sites. 

It's the old chicken and egg syndrome regarding maintaining sales, you're damned if you ask for them and damned if you don't.


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

I've gotten reviews from a number of sources, but like the others said, patience is key. Here's my sources:


I've posted mine to NetGalley -- this is where most of my "received this in exchange for an honest review" came from
Done giveaways on LibraryThing, Goodreads, and The Romance Review
Put in a thank you and message to readers immediately after the book ends, asking them kindly to let others know--good or bad--what they thought. Honestly I think this is where I get a lot of my organic reviews.
Exhaustively querying book review blogs


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

Nimrodish said:


> I've given away around 5,000 free books. I've done Goodreads giveaways. I've approached bloggers. I did an expensive, time-consuming blog tour which was such a failure that I must assume that route is the wrong path. I remain under-reviewed.


There are really only two legit ways to get reviews. One is to painstakingly approach bloggers, Amazon reviewers or other likely suspects one by one with offers of an ARC copy. There are a few ways to speed the process (you can pay for a list of Amazon reviewers, for instance), but it's still a hard slog. The other way is to sell or give away a lot of books. Reviews will trickle in as people read them. Either way, it's a painfully slow process.

There are some effective promotion sites that don't require reviews before they'll accept you - ENT, for instance. A number of other big ones will accept a recent release (which may be up to six months ago). Lots of the cheap-and-cheerful sites don't care, especially for a free book.

But you are not alone. My first book (which took 2 weeks to get its first review) still only has 28 a year later, even though there are more than 10,000 copies of it out there somewhere (most free, but still...). That's a rate of 1 review every 350 or so downloads. My newest book has just 3 - 2 from ARCs and one from a beta reader. But beyond a call-to-action at the back of every book, there's not much more that can be done. Reviews come in their own good time.


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## Eva Chase (Aug 8, 2015)

I've managed to get five pre-release reviews for my first book so far, and all of those came from looking at who'd reviewed similar books positively on GoodReads and Amazon and approaching those reviewers to see if they'd be interested in reading mine. With GoodReads, I never contacted anyone _on_ GoodReads, only checked to see if the reviewer had a blog, and if they did checked out their review policy there, and only contacted them if they indicated they were open to review requests. Haven't gotten any complaints about approaching people that way.

I've also tried a LibraryThing giveaway and putting the book up on NetGalley, but it's too early to tell yet how successful either of those strategies will be. I was thinking I'd do a post once the book's been out for a month or so to recap what I tried and what seemed to work or not.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

To get reviews every time one of my books hits a number of reviews that is a multiple of ten I thank my fans with a post like this on Facebook and my blog: http://ibringthefireodin.tumblr.com/post/130294313680/ragnarok-has-80-reviews-on-amazonus-reviews-of

Typically after a post like that I'll get another few reviews right away.


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## dianapersaud (Sep 26, 2013)

In the back of your book, do you have a politely worded request to leave a review?

It's not a magic wand, but once I added that request, I received more reviews. That being said, I get more reviews on my Freebie than paid books.

It also varies by bookstore. I have a lot more reviews on Google play than on Amazon. Have no idea why.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> To get reviews every time one of my books hits a number of reviews that is a multiple of ten I thank my fans with a post like this on Facebook and my blog: http://ibringthefireodin.tumblr.com/post/130294313680/ragnarok-has-80-reviews-on-amazonus-reviews-of
> 
> Typically after a post like that I'll get another few reviews right away.


That is a really smart idea!

Most people love attention. And most like to be part of a group, or identify with a movement (in this case, your brand). Your strategy leverages both.

Nice.


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## suliabryon (May 18, 2009)

OP - I am surprised no one else has commented on this. You stated that you have no beta readers or critique group, and this, IMHO, is something you should remedy as soon as possible. Not only can they be a good source of reviews for you, but even more importantly, they can give you valuable feedback that will make your books better before you ever hit the publish button. They can help give you much needed support when low sales or reviews get you down. They can even help promote your books, since usually they are almost as excited for you as you are to publish your work. 

There are several online critique groups where you can make those connections. (Critters comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.) I have even asked for volunteers on my Facebook feed (which granted, I do keep to family and friends). Just trust me, get yourself a good group of beta readers. It is a great investment in your success.


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## abgwriter (Sep 12, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> I'm not being secretive about my genres; just my identity. I'm shy and I've seen people being cruel here (a very small minority, but impressive all the same). Back when I used to frequent Goodreads, I'd see authors being carpet-bombed with one-star ratings because of something they said in a forum. I don't have enough reviews that I can survive one-star attacks (in the event that I say something that someone disagrees with, which I will). I'd love to show my books and ask for feedback on the new covers, but I can't do that; I just can't.
> 
> I have a blog. It's boring. I say nothing. When I told stories about my weird life and griped about the present system of customer reviews for books I got a lot of hits but then I thought, nah . . . I don't think I'm attracting the right people. I have a Facebook page with 1100 followers who apparently love to read books written by anyone other than myself. I give them pictures of cats; they like that (and so do I). When I post anything about my books, they ignore it.
> 
> ...


I understand your worries very well, but I'm afraid you are selling yourself short by letting that worry dictate the way you interact with the people here. Sure, what you fear could happen, but you could also learn so much from asking advice and getting feedback that you'll double your readership and one bad review will end up being nothing for you. You have to consider what you are gaining and what you see losing with you attitude. At least to me, it seems like you are not gaining anything. You don't have a book link or blog/website link, so right there you are losing exposure, and since you said you have no beta-reader or critique partner then the only place you can ask for advice is here, where people don't know you enough to tell you if there's something wrong.
DarkarNights is right, maybe the problem is in your cover, or your blurb, or even your author bio. The first blurb I published here I didn't realized how wrong it was until somebody pointed it out.

I guess my point is: you have to weight your choices and the consequences of it. You can't achieve a different result by doing the exact same thing.


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

Nimrodish said:


> I know a great many authors struggle with the same problem. I don't think there's any solution, but I thought I'd post this in case anyone has a magic formula for getting reviews which they would like to share.


I've spent the past year trying to build up reviews on my books. It's a painfully slow process, and I still don't have as many as I'd like.

I've had reasonable success with LibraryThing giveaways, as well as approaching book review bloggers. When I say _reasonable_, the rate of reviews are actually pretty low. I manage my eBook giveaways (on LibraryThing) through Smashwords coupons. I'd say that maybe 60-70% of all winners actually claim their copy. I usually end up with a couple of reviews out of each giveaway, even though "Requesting Reviews" box is checked. That's just the way it is.

You also have to keep in mind that the book reading cycle is long (not like watching a movie or listen to music). Readers often have several books on their TBR pile, so it could take months for them to get around to yours.

All I can say is to stick with it. The reviews will come sooner or later (usually later).


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

abgwriter said:


> I understand your worries very well, but I'm afraid you are selling yourself short by letting that worry dictate the way you interact with the people here. Sure, what you fear could happen, but you could also learn so much from asking advice and getting feedback that you'll double your readership and one bad review will end up being nothing for you. You have to consider what you are gaining and what you see losing with you attitude. At least to me, it seems like you are not gaining anything. You don't have a book link or blog/website link, so right there you are losing exposure, and since you said you have no beta-reader or critique partner then the only place you can ask for advice is here, where people don't know you enough to tell you if there's something wrong.
> DarkarNights is right, maybe the problem is in your cover, or your blurb, or even your author bio. The first blurb I published here I didn't realized how wrong it was until somebody pointed it out.
> 
> I guess my point is: you have to weight your choices and the consequences of it. You can't achieve a different result by doing the exact same thing.


Thirding/fourthing this advice. I've gotten so much help from people here, it's incredible. Yeah, there's risk, but I suspect bad stuff is less common than many people think and more frequently motivated by jealousy than some sort of disagreement.

With 5,000 copies given away, you "should" have gotten five reviews. (Averages don't always pan out, of course, but that's the free-download-to-review rate a lot of people report.) If it's been a while since the giveaway, and a reasonable number of reviews haven't shown up, could something about the book be turning people off, so they don't finish and review it? Personally, I struggle with slow beginnings and lose readers because of it. If a problem with the book itself explains the low review numbers, the same thing could be turning off promotional sites -- you're assuming low review numbers have caused the rejections, but maybe it's the Look Inside.

If you can't bring yourself to let all of KB take a critical look at your book page and book but wouldn't mind revealing yourself to one person, feel free to PM me, and I'll check it out. I'm hardly the most expert person around to do it, but one set of eyes is better than none. My lips would be sealed forever, promise. 

If you did get a reasonable number of reviews after the free run, is it just not enough for the promotional venues you want to use? How many reviews do you think you need? If you need five or six more, the kinds of targeted approaches people here have mentioned will probably get you there in a couple months' time. You can also do another free run, using C. Gockel's list of free sites to dig up places that will promote your book with the number of reviews it currently has. To accumulate reviews effectively through free runs, you have to rack up big numbers, since freebies seem much more likely to sit unread on people's Kindles.

If you do a Library Thing giveaway, Accord64's method of delivering the book via Smashwords coupon is a great idea. There have been scammers on Library Thing in the past -- they ask you to gift the book to them via Amazon but then exchange the offer for a gift card that can be spent on anything. Hopefully LT has rooted that stuff out, but better safe than sorry.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> To get reviews every time one of my books hits a number of reviews that is a multiple of ten I thank my fans with a post like this on Facebook and my blog: http://ibringthefireodin.tumblr.com/post/130294313680/ragnarok-has-80-reviews-on-amazonus-reviews-of
> 
> Typically after a post like that I'll get another few reviews right away.


This is brilliant.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

suliabryon said:


> OP - I am surprised no one else has commented on this. You stated that you have no beta readers or critique group, and this, IMHO, is something you should remedy as soon as possible.


This is a red flag to me and I wonder if *any* independent eyes saw the novel prior to being published. There are lots of reasons why people might not be leaving reviews - from cover, blurb, genre, wrong age group, and maybe, just possibly, it could be the writing...It's so hard to say with nothing specific to look at, only vagaries.

The other thing is you said it's fantasy with animals like Watership Down, but what's your target age category? Is it adult, YA, MG?


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> There are several online critique groups where you can make those connections. (Critters comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.) I have even asked for volunteers on my Facebook feed (which granted, I do keep to family and friends). Just trust me, get yourself a good group of beta readers. It is a great investment in your success.


I agree with this. I've heard Critique Circle is also a great place for new writers. I think it is important to have betas and to _be_ a beta in this business. (I've had some people take umbrage with the fact that Critique Circle wants you to beta other people's work ... that is a very bad attitude. The best thing you can do in this biz is collaborate with other authors.)


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Thing is...if you're afraid to link to your books here for fear of what people will say, how will it be when you actually DO get reviews, and some of them are negative?

I have the world's thinnest skin. I do understand how you feel. But unfortunately, the only way to toughen your skin (and I should know) is to suffer enough blows from those one-stars. Once enough people say you're boring, that they wanted to smack your heroine, that they thought a teenager wrote your book...it does start to sting less. 

Also, unless you're quite direct or really mess up (like complaining about a review), in my experience, you really don't have that much to worry about in terms of people upvoting your negative reviews or whatever. I've posted here a fair amount, and perhaps I've had a few of those things happen, but not much. Not saying it can't, but the mere fact of linking your books and asking for advice probably isn't going to do it. 

As far as beta readers--if they don't say it and you don't fix it, your reviewers will say it. That's your chance to make the book better. Again, it stings a LOT at first. But mainly because you fear that you can't fix the book. You can.


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## doolittle03 (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm in deep sympathy with you Nimrodish as I'm trying to set up promotions right now for books that have few to zero reviews. But it's been great to hear from everyone about the effort that has gone into getting the reviews they have and the time it takes because it's a discouraging slog. Some promoters are a godsend in that they'll run your ad without reviews. 

I had a brainwave just now that ebook promoters could encourage their subscribers to leave reviews on the free books they get or the deeply discounted ones. Just a short reminder at the end of the newsletter to plant the seed.  
It seems that every commercial enterprise is bugging the consumer for "feedback" or to "like them on Facebook". After awhile you just want to read the book or eat the product and not have to talk about it. 

I loved Watership Down, btw. Also, I hope you feel more comfortable sharing here.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Oh, just one more thought! Have you tried one of the Kboards Book Discovery promos? I've found the Kboards paid promo options not to lead to huge downloads, but I always get a lot of kind, thoughtful reviews when I book one.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but you might check out BookRazor. They are very much on the up and up. I can tell you they did an excellent job on my most recent release in putting me in touch with Amazon reviewers, ones who specifically have a history of reviewing my genre. They have a thread somewhere but I didn't locate it with a quick search, but if you're interested here is their site http://www.bookrazor.com/

To be clear, I have no connection with them except for having once used their service.


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## andreadrew (Dec 11, 2014)

Hi Nimrodish
I'm an Australian author of supernatural suspense and would be happy to review your book(s).
My email address is on my amazon author page...
Cheers


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

Vicky Foxx said:


> You simply must build a mailing list. It's something I resisted for a long time too. But now I've gotten over my stubborness. It's the single best way to build an audience and get reviews.
> 
> - Set up a mailing list account at a place like Mailchimp
> - Include the link to your mailing list in the FRONT and BACK of your book.
> ...


Thank you for the detailed instructions and link. I will do as you suggest.

I agree that one can't just wait for the reviews to roll in. My first book was published several years ago and doing nothing (since I didn't know what to do) resulted in nothing.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

dianapersaud said:


> In the back of your book, do you have a politely worded request to leave a review?
> 
> It's not a magic wand, but once I added that request, I received more reviews. That being said, I get more reviews on my Freebie than paid books.
> 
> It also varies by bookstore. I have a lot more reviews on Google play than on Amazon. Have no idea why.


Yes, I have a polite no-pressure request for reviews at the end of each book.


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## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

I know you said you had bad luck with a blog tour, but I have done 'Review Only' blog tours and garnered quite a few reviews from those. There are a couple of tour operators out there who could co-ordinate this for you.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

My life has gotten infinitely better once I stopped worrying about reviews and concentrating on putting out quality products that I didn't need to be timid about advertising everywhere.

On average you get about 1 review for 100 sales, so in order to get reviews, it seems obvious that you need to increase sales. 

There are sites that will let you advertise without reviews. Freebooksy comes to mind, but also bknights on fiverr and there are other sites as well. Work your way up from there.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2015)

suliabryon said:


> OP - I am surprised no one else has commented on this. You stated that you have no beta readers or critique group, and this, IMHO, is something you should remedy as soon as possible. Not only can they be a good source of reviews for you, but even more importantly, they can give you valuable feedback that will make your books better before you ever hit the publish button. They can help give you much needed support when low sales or reviews get you down. They can even help promote your books, since usually they are almost as excited for you as you are to publish your work.
> 
> There are several online critique groups where you can make those connections. (Critters comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.) I have even asked for volunteers on my Facebook feed (which granted, I do keep to family and friends). Just trust me, get yourself a good group of beta readers. It is a great investment in your success.


Thank you. I have bookmarked the Critters site.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> Thirding/fourthing this advice. I've gotten so much help from people here, it's incredible. Yeah, there's risk, but I suspect bad stuff is less common than many people think and more frequently motivated by jealousy than some sort of disagreement.
> 
> With 5,000 copies given away, you "should" have gotten five reviews. (Averages don't always pan out, of course, but that's the free-download-to-review rate a lot of people report.) If it's been a while since the giveaway, and a reasonable number of reviews haven't shown up, could something about the book be turning people off, so they don't finish and review it? Personally, I struggle with slow beginnings and lose readers because of it. If a problem with the book itself explains the low review numbers, the same thing could be turning off promotional sites -- you're assuming low review numbers have caused the rejections, but maybe it's the Look Inside.
> 
> ...


I know for certain that there's a problem with a slow beginning for one of my books. I'm in the process of deleting all unnecessary text and tightening things up. I upload the revisions to KDP every night.

I received a total of seven new reviews (for three different books) as a result of giving away those 5000 books. So, now one book has three reviews, my novella has two, and my first book has seven. Oddly enough, the book with the painfully slow beginning is the one that received three almost immediate reviews at the start of the free giveaway (one resoundingly negative; the other two are four stars). The woman who hated (and did not finish) this novel posted her review the same day she received the book. A gentleman posted his review the day after the preceding one was put up. I think he felt sorry for me when he saw the criticism; he indicated in his review that people should finish the book.

Thank you for offering to take a look at my work. I'll PM you soon.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

AliceWE said:


> This is a red flag to me and I wonder if *any* independent eyes saw the novel prior to being published. There are lots of reasons why people might not be leaving reviews - from cover, blurb, genre, wrong age group, and maybe, just possibly, it could be the writing...It's so hard to say with nothing specific to look at, only vagaries.
> 
> The other thing is you said it's fantasy with animals like Watership Down, but what's your target age category? Is it adult, YA, MG?


The only independent eyes who saw the fantasy prior to publication are two editors at major publishing houses who said the book is wonderful and well-written, but difficult to market. One of those women was named UK Editor of the Year, so I assume she's a good judge of such things.

I'm targeting the book at adults. Young people have enjoyed it, but so have adults. An award-winning author reviewed the book and said it's not for children. Since he won a Guggenheim grant and I haven't, I'll take his word for it.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> I agree with this. I've heard Critique Circle is also a great place for new writers. I think it is important to have betas and to _be_ a beta in this business. (I've had some people take umbrage with the fact that Critique Circle wants you to beta other people's work ... that is a very bad attitude. The best thing you can do in this biz is collaborate with other authors.)


Thanks. I've bookmarked Critique Circle.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> Oh, just one more thought! Have you tried one of the Kboards Book Discovery promos? I've found the Kboards paid promo options not to lead to huge downloads, but I always get a lot of kind, thoughtful reviews when I book one.


I haven't tried that; thanks for suggesting it.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Thing is...if you're afraid to link to your books here for fear of what people will say, how will it be when you actually DO get reviews, and some of them are negative?
> 
> I have the world's thinnest skin. I do understand how you feel. But unfortunately, the only way to toughen your skin (and I should know) is to suffer enough blows from those one-stars. Once enough people say you're boring, that they wanted to smack your heroine, that they thought a teenager wrote your book...it does start to sting less.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your words. I just want to make it clear that I'm not afraid of what people will say; I'm afraid of what they will do.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

doolittle03 said:


> I'm in deep sympathy with you Nimrodish as I'm trying to set up promotions right now for books that have few to zero reviews. But it's been great to hear from everyone about the effort that has gone into getting the reviews they have and the time it takes because it's a discouraging slog. Some promoters are a godsend in that they'll run your ad without reviews.
> 
> I had a brainwave just now that ebook promoters could encourage their subscribers to leave reviews on the free books they get or the deeply discounted ones. Just a short reminder at the end of the newsletter to plant the seed.
> It seems that every commercial enterprise is bugging the consumer for "feedback" or to "like them on Facebook". After awhile you just want to read the book or eat the product and not have to talk about it.
> ...


Thank you.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

JRTomlin said:


> I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but you might check out BookRazor. They are very much on the up and up. I can tell you they did an excellent job on my most recent release in putting me in touch with Amazon reviewers, ones who specifically have a history of reviewing my genre. They have a thread somewhere but I didn't locate it with a quick search, but if you're interested here is their site http://www.bookrazor.com/
> 
> To be clear, I have no connection with them except for having once used their service.


Thanks!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

andreadrew said:


> Hi Nimrodish
> I'm an Australian author of supernatural suspense and would be happy to review your book(s).
> My email address is on my amazon author page...
> Cheers


Thank you! I will write to you.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Cheryl Douglas said:


> I know you said you had bad luck with a blog tour, but I have done 'Review Only' blog tours and garnered quite a few reviews from those. There are a couple of tour operators out there who could co-ordinate this for you.


I'll look into that; thanks!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Nimrodish said:


> I appreciate your words. I just want to make it clear that I'm not afraid of what people will say; I'm afraid of what they will do.


As I said, though--I don't think they'll actually do anything. it's unlikely, unless you're calling people out or something, which I doubt you are! I'm pretty sure that I've gained a lot more than I've lost by being visible online & linking my books to me.

I'd love to think that my negative reviews etc. are because of my arguing skills being Too Amazeballs & people seeking revenge, but alas...I fear I got those reviews the old-fashioned way--the person just hated the book!


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> As I said, though--I don't think they'll actually do anything. it's unlikely, unless you're calling people out or something, which I doubt you are! I'm pretty sure that I've gained a lot more than I've lost by being visible online & linking my books to me.
> 
> I'd love to think that my negative reviews etc. are because of my arguing skills being Too Amazeballs & people seeking revenge, but alas...I fear I got those reviews the old-fashioned way--the person just hated the book!


It's always nice to imagine a non-literary reason for bad reviews. With my first one, I just assumed the woman had extreme PMS (though she did make a good point which I later heeded). With my second one, I attributed it to the reviewer's idiocy coupled with insanity (which might be true, actually).

Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe some day I'll have the courage to come out of hiding.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> With my first one, I just assumed the woman had extreme PMS...With my second one, I attributed it to the reviewer's idiocy coupled with insanity (which might be true, actually).


Wow. I really hope that's a (poor taste) joke?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> With my first one, I just assumed the woman had extreme PMS (though she did make a good point which I later heeded). With my second one, I attributed it to the reviewer's idiocy coupled with insanity (which might be true, actually).


Before you come out of hiding, you may want to stamp this on your forehead:

Like the customer, the reviewer is always right

Even if they're not.

Seriously, many people on this forum buy from writers on the forum, and you've probably just lost yourself about 100 readers. Do. Not. Disparage. The. Reviewer.

Ever. Especially not in public.


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## Redgum (Mar 12, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> I read the posts from authors sharing their success with various promotions and feel quite helpless. I have been rejected by every promotional venue I've approached that requires a book to be approved by the administrators of the sites. (I assume they're rejecting me because I have so few reviews compared to the other applicants.) Most of the promotional sites are beyond my reach because of their minimum-number-of-reviews requirements.
> 
> I've given away around 5,000 free books. I've done Goodreads giveaways. I've approached bloggers. I did an expensive, time-consuming blog tour which was such a failure that I must assume that route is the wrong path. I remain under-reviewed.
> 
> ...


Yes, it seems that you have to have reviews to get reviews. The sad thing is that all this does is encourage people to buy reviews to get the requisite number so review sites will then review them. To be honest I'm one of those who thinks the entire review system should be scrapped because if there's one area that is open to massive corruption it is the reviews.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

AliceWE said:


> Wow. I really hope that's a (poor taste) joke?


It is, and it isn't. I used to be quite the psycho harpy for a few days every month and I thought I recognized the symptoms of it in the woman's statements. When I was working at a printing company as a supervisor, I had the sign painter make me a sign saying "PMS Alert" that I put up by my desk at appropriate times. If you're referring to my second comment . . . that's not a joke. I'm just honestly stating the thoughts that came into my head when I first saw those reviews and if that's offensive, I'm sorry.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Nimrodish said:


> It is, and it isn't. I used to be quite the psycho harpy for a few days every month and I thought I recognized the symptoms of it in the woman's statements. When I was working at a printing company as a supervisor, I had the sign painter make me a sign saying "PMS Alert" that I put up by my desk at appropriate times. If you're referring to my second comment . . . that's not a joke. I'm just honestly stating the thoughts that came into my head when I first saw those reviews and if that's offensive, I'm sorry.


Yes, I'd agree, don't "come out" until you can refrain from saying that stuff.

That's kinda what I was saying. At first, you think, oh noooo, there MUST be some other explanation for why this person hates MY book! But there isn't. They hated it. It happens! Heaven knows I've hated books that are beloved by others. Or, more commonly, failed to get into them and put them down unfinished.

But, no. You can't say this. And before you go after reviews, you really do have to know why your stuff might be disliked. This is where betas can help. About the 5th time one of my friends told me how annoying one of my heroines was, I got it. Yep, I've got plenty of reviews saying she was annoying. The book's sold very well, so clearly not everybody thinks so, but for a (who-knows-how-big) minority of readers--she's annoying! I can totally see it now.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Nimrodish said:


> I know for certain that there's a problem with a slow beginning for one of my books. I'm in the process of deleting all unnecessary text and tightening things up. I upload the revisions to KDP every night.


That's great. I revised my slowest beginning, too, and I think it made the book stronger. This is one of the great things about indie publishing, IMO -- that when you grow as a writer, you aren't stuck looking back at your older books, wishing you could apply your new skills to them. 'Cause you can! 



Nimrodish said:


> I received a total of seven new reviews (for three different books) as a result of giving away those 5000 books. So, now one book has three reviews, my novella has two, and my first book has seven. Oddly enough, the book with the painfully slow beginning is the one that received three almost immediate reviews at the start of the free giveaway (one resoundingly negative; the other two are four stars). The woman who hated (and did not finish) this novel posted her review the same day she received the book. A gentleman posted his review the day after the preceding one was put up. I think he felt sorry for me when he saw the criticism; he indicated in his review that people should finish the book.


If you got a "normal" number of reviews following the giveaway, that's a good sign. Negative reviews are disheartening, and they're especially a bummer when your whole aim to be able to promote the book. But they do tend to happen a bit more often with free books, which help you reach outside your standard audience. So, it's easier to build review numbers on a free book, but the review average will probably be a bit lower than it would be if the book had never been free.



Nimrodish said:


> Thank you for offering to take a look at my work. I'll PM you soon.


Looking forward. 



Nimrodish said:


> The only independent eyes who saw the fantasy prior to publication are two editors at major publishing houses who said the book is wonderful and well-written, but difficult to market. One of those women was named UK Editor of the Year, so I assume she's a good judge of such things.


Sounds like a great endorsement of your writing skills!

You know, I think indie writers tend to assume trad publishers don't know what they're talking about when they dismiss a submission as "hard to market." We've certainly seen books -- and whole genres -- prove them wrong. But it could be that the editors were correct in your case, and that part of the problem you're running into is that your book appeals to a niche audience, and that it's sort of hard to reach those readers.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Before you come out of hiding, you may want to stamp this on your forehead:
> 
> Like the customer, the reviewer is always right
> 
> ...


Got it! I'll just add that I wouldn't have said these things if people had a way of knowing who those reviewers are. They remain anonymous.

Since I've been quoted twice already, there's no point in my deletion of that comment.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Redgum said:


> Yes, it seems that you have to have reviews to get reviews. The sad thing is that all this does is encourage people to buy reviews to get the requisite number so review sites will then review them. To be honest I'm one of those who thinks the entire review system should be scrapped because if there's one area that is open to massive corruption it is the reviews.


I agree with you. The situation as it stands is far from perfect.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Yes, I'd agree, don't "come out" until you can refrain from saying that stuff.
> 
> That's kinda what I was saying. At first, you think, oh noooo, there MUST be some other explanation for why this person hates MY book! But there isn't. They hated it. It happens! Heaven knows I've hated books that are beloved by others. Or, more commonly, failed to get into them and put them down unfinished.
> 
> But, no. You can't say this. And before you go after reviews, you really do have to know why your stuff might be disliked. This is where betas can help. About the 5th time one of my friends told me how annoying one of my heroines was, I got it. Yep, I've got plenty of reviews saying she was annoying. The book's sold very well, so clearly not everybody thinks so, but for a (who-knows-how-big) minority of readers--she's annoying! I can totally see it now.


I'm sorry you created a protagonist who is not universally loved, but I'm glad the book is selling despite that. I guess you can't please everyone. Since you see the annoying aspects of her character, are you considering changing her a little bit?


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> That's great. I revised my slowest beginning, too, and I think it made the book stronger. This is one of the great things about indie publishing, IMO -- that when you grow as a writer, you aren't stuck looking back at your older books, wishing you could apply your new skills to them. 'Cause you can!
> 
> If you got a "normal" number of reviews following the giveaway, that's a good sign. Negative reviews are disheartening, and they're especially a bummer when your whole aim to be able to promote the book. But they do tend to happen a bit more often with free books, which help you reach outside your standard audience. So, it's easier to build review numbers on a free book, but the review average will probably be a bit lower than it would be if the book had never been free.
> 
> ...


The freedom to make speedy changes is truly one of the great things about indie publishing. We can decide to alter a book and have the new version up the very next day; it's wonderful.

I resisted doing the free giveaways for a long time because I knew they attract more negative reviews than paid books. I didn't get any negative reviews at all (the number of reviews I presented earlier were only my Amazon.com reviews; I had more on Goodreads) until I started doing the freebies. I think one problem is that since the customer isn't paying, many of them don't read the book page to see whether or not it might be to their liking.

The editors were correct about the fantasy being hard to market. I can't argue with that!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Nimrodish said:


> I'm sorry you created a protagonist who is not universally loved, but I'm glad the book is selling despite that. I guess you can't please everyone. Since you see the annoying aspects of her character, are you considering changing her a little bit?


Nope. The book's on its way to 100,000 copies sold, it's been out in German for a year, and the audiobook got nominated for an Audie last year, so too late now! My point is--you take the lessons learned and move on. I don't look at reviews for that book anymore, since i think I've got it. (It's got over 1,000 reviews, so I've got the gist!)

I have enough objective evidence at this point to believe that I write reasonably well. But ALL of my books, even my most-beloved ones, have some readers who haven't liked--something. The hero, the heroine. The drama, the lack of drama. The sex, the not-enough sex. Whatever. I'm not saying those people are wrong or right. They're right for THEM. It's their opinion. I'm saying, sometimes it's something I can learn from (if they couldn't identify with a character, was there a way I could have explained that character's motivations and past better so people might have understood her/him better?). Not to change the book once it's out, but to learn for the future. Sometimes it's just their opinion, and there's nothing to learn except that you can't please everyone. The more people who read your book, the more your book is recommended, the more compelled some people will be to state for the record that THEY didn't like it, despite the positive reviews. This just comes with the territory. They don't have PMS. They just didn't like the book!

BUT--I have about 10 beta readers, and THEY tell me those things up front, and I listen. Or if the editor says it. You hear it from the betas, or you hear it in reviews. And if the betas and the developmental editor didn't have an issue, but a few readers do? That's when you go to "can't please everyone" mode.

Also--a handful of reviews for 5,000 copies of a book given away--that's about right. Those 1,000 reviews? I've sold/given away pretty close to half a million of that book. Giveaways generate--mmm, maybe one review per 1,000 copies. Sales do better, but still maybe--500/1?


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> Got it! I'll just add that I wouldn't have said these things if people had a way of knowing who those reviewers are. They remain anonymous.


Reviewers have the absolute right to remain anonymous. Reviewers post their opinions for other readers, NOT authors. You shouldn't even be reading them, they are not for you.

I seriously think you need CPs and beta readers and to learn to take criticism BEFORE you publish anything else. Your responses in this thread make it very clear you have an issue with taking feedback. Here's the reality, not everyone will love your book. A top editor might think it's fab and lots of people might agree, an equal number will think "meh" and there will be at least one reader who will hate your mention of the colour orange, or something equally obscure.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Nope. The book's on its way to 100,000 copies sold, it's been out in German for a year, and the audiobook got nominated for an Audie last year, so too late now! My point is--you take the lessons learned and move on. I don't look at reviews for that book anymore, since i think I've got it. (It's got over 1,000 reviews, so I've got the gist!)
> 
> I have enough objective evidence at this point to believe that I write reasonably well. But ALL of my books, even my most-beloved ones, have some readers who haven't liked--something. The hero, the heroine. The drama, the lack of drama. The sex, the not-enough sex. Whatever. I'm not saying those people are wrong or right. They're right for THEM. It's their opinion. I'm saying, sometimes it's something I can learn from (if they couldn't identify with a character, was there a way I could have explained that character's motivations and past better so people might have understood her/him better?). Not to change the book once it's out, but to learn for the future. Sometimes it's just their opinion, and there's nothing to learn except that you can't please everyone. The more people who read your book, the more your book is recommended, the more compelled some people will be to state for the record that THEY didn't like it, despite the positive reviews. This just comes with the territory. They don't have PMS. They just didn't like the book!
> 
> ...


100,000 copies sold? That's fantastic - good for you! I congratulate you on your success.

As bitter as I was about my first bad review (being the only review on the page made things far worse for me from an emotional standpoint) the woman did make a valid complaint and I learned from it. I'd thank her for pointing it out, but of course that would be very bad form.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

AliceWE said:


> Reviewers have the absolute right to remain anonymous. Reviewers post their opinions for other readers, NOT authors. You shouldn't even be reading them, they are not for you.
> 
> I seriously think you need CPs and beta readers and to learn to take criticism BEFORE you publish anything else. Your responses in this thread make it very clear you have an issue with taking feedback. Here's the reality, not everyone will love your book. A top editor might think it's fab and lots of people might agree, an equal number will think "meh" and there will be at least one reader who will hate your mention of the colour orange, or something equally obscure.


Please enlighten me. I wasn't aware that I had an issue with feedback. You said "Your responses in this thread make it very clear you have an issue . . ." I made one unfortunate statement regarding my feelings about my first experiences with strongly negative reviews (reviews which seemed to me to be irrational). Which responses did I make indicating that I have a problem with all feedback?

I understand that customer reviews are not written for me, but I believe it is not against the law for me to read them. At least, in the United States it isn't.

I believe you misunderstood my statement about the reviewers' anonymity. They remained anonymous because I presented them that way so as to not publicly criticize any one individual. I didn't post the reviews here; I didn't post a link to the reviews. (They aren't anonymous on my book pages, as I recall.)

I believe it is incorrect to state that I have a problem with all feedback simply because I was wounded by my first experiences with extremely bad (and in one case, outright mean-spirited) reviews.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> The only independent eyes who saw the fantasy prior to publication are two editors at major publishing houses who said the book is wonderful and well-written, but difficult to market.


So did you hire these editors as professionals to edit the MS before you published, or did you query publishers and get rejects from the editors saying they liked the writing but they couldn't market it? Because those are two different scenarios. Personally I have oodles of rejects with some variant of "loved the writing, but can't sell it in the current market." It's polite industry speak for "thanks but no thanks."


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## Mark Dawson (Mar 24, 2012)

I can remember very well the difficulty of getting my first reviews. 

Without reviews, no promo. But with no promo, no reviews. Very frustrating.

Lots of great advice here. I would say this:

1. Make it easy for people to leave reviews and explain why you they are helpful (I find people are very kind when they understand that there is a motive beyond pandering to a writer's vanity);
2. Build your list. Put CTAs for joining EVERYWHERE.
3. Consider giving the book away to build your list.
4. Consider paid traffic to do same.
5. Build an advance team.

I focused on my list last year, and then the advance team - it was the single biggest reason why I went from selling a few to selling a lot.

Good luck. Once you build momentum, it gets a lot easier.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2015)

Mark Dawson said:


> I can remember very well the difficulty of getting my first reviews.
> 
> Without reviews, no promo. But with no promo, no reviews. Very frustrating.
> 
> ...


Great advice! I'm planning on starting up a list, as someone else suggested earlier. I was wondering what might motivate people to join a list, and giving away free books seems like a good way to do it.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

Don't let negative reviews bother you. Some folks are grouches who feel better when they can attack others. Some want to stand out. They like attention. So they post a 1-star review on a book that has been showered with praise.

Also, I find that individuals who leave 1 or 2-star reviews often do so for everything they review. Or they only have a few reviews to their name.

Best to ignore. Having a thick skin helps. 

And of course, everything Mark said.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2015)

Anarchist said:


> Don't let negative reviews bother you. Some folks are grouches who feel better when they can attack others. Some want to stand out. They like attention. So they post a 1-star review on a book that has been showered with praise.
> 
> Also, I find that individuals who leave 1 or 2-star reviews often do so for everything they review. Or they only have a few reviews to their name.
> 
> ...


Right. The person who gave me the one star rates a LOT of Amazon purchases that way. I've also seen reviewers rate a book at one star and then go on to say, "Now that I've got your attention with the one star . . ."

There are two reasons why the negative reviews hit me so very hard (kind of like a sledgehammer whacking my head). (1) They were my first and my skin isn't tough enough yet. (2) With so few reviews, a one star has a significant effect on the overall rating average. On the one hand, that's sometimes a good thing. Readers see a low average rating on a book listing and are curious about what makes the book so awful, and they go to the book page to check it out. On the other hand, as you all know, promotional sites often demand a high average and all an unlucky author can do is sit at his/her computer emitting screams of frustration when the average drops because of one reviewer's actions.

Thanks for the words of support. Being a self-employed author/marketer/publisher/typesetter/graphic designer will never be easy, but eventually the negative reviews will be easier to tolerate. All new authors can look forward to that, if nothing else.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

The simple answer is to contact book bloggers and Amazon book reviewers. I have a huge database of bloggers and reviewers that I've put together over the years, and I start contacting them 6 weeks before a book is published to give them time to read the book. I politely request that the blogger/reviewer leave an honest review on Amazon on the week that the book is published. 

Yes, it is a big time-suck. Yeah, you get maybe 2 replies out of ten. But once you build up a little bit of a fanbase, it will pay off.

I keep track of who I sent an ARC to, and then who liked the book and who didn't, so I can avoid contacting them again with a sequel. The last time, I released a book, I got lazy and only contacted about 200 reviewers and out of those, only about 30 agreed to read and review. 

And if you get a few negative reviews (I've had my fair share!) just re-read your 5 and 4 star reviews. And then if you still feel depressed, check out a few bestselling authors and read their 1 star reviews. Everyone gets them.


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## jrwilson (Apr 7, 2015)

I just bought Stephanie Meyer's 10th anniversary edition of Twilight.  It just came out on October 6th.  It's #3 in books, #9 in the paid kind store and 46% of the 108 reviews are one star reviews.  I seriously hope she isn't reading the reviews.  I like it so far.  Shrug.  I do believe that some books will get review bombed.  Even though I think it is not typical.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

1 and 2 star reviews happen. Here's the newsflash, not every reader loves every book.

_edited to conform to Forum Decorum guidelines -- Ann_


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Sometimes people don't leave reviews because they don't feel a strong desire to comment on a book. 

I review a book every so often and that is only the books that were so great I need to tell other people about it, I need to express my love for the story, for the characters etc. I need to recommend it to others.
I also leave the odd low rating/review when I really disliked a book and I leave a detailed reason why. I haven't reviewed a book for a while now.

I imagine a reader who has a long TBR list, some free books and some paid. They read a book every week, fortnight or month and maybe only a couple of those books were so entertaining, engaging, thought provoking that they had to write a 4 or 5 review. Then these two books they've read triggered negative emotions and feelings in the reader that they had to leave a low review. The other books  they've read through the year were just ok, a good read but not thought provoking, not memorable. Sometimes those books get average or low ratings on Goodreads but very few written reviews. Sometimes I see books on Amazon in the top 200 with hardly any reviews. One author springs to mind who ranks high but gets very few reviews. 

The authors I see in the romance genre (mainly NA romance or erom) who get lots of reviews are the ones with loyal readers who review all their books, book bloggers who have received ARC's and the authors who have triggered something in the readers. Often these reviews are long and detailed, on goodreads they include amusing gifs.

I think you have to write books that people want to talk about and tell other people about. That's the best way to get reviews, IMO.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2015)

mica said:


> Sometimes people don't leave reviews because they don't feel a strong desire to comment on a book.
> 
> I review a book every so often and that is only the books that were so great I need to tell other people about it, I need to express my love for the story, for the characters etc. I need to recommend it to others.
> I also leave the odd low rating/review when I really disliked a book and I leave a detailed reason why. I haven't reviewed a book for a while now.
> ...


That's interesting and thought-provoking. Thanks for sharing your excellent observations!


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## farrago (Oct 29, 2013)

Nimrodish said:


> I read the posts from authors sharing their success with various promotions and feel quite helpless. I have been rejected by every promotional venue I've approached that requires a book to be approved by the administrators of the sites. (I assume they're rejecting me because I have so few reviews compared to the other applicants.) Most of the promotional sites are beyond my reach because of their minimum-number-of-reviews requirements. I've given away around 5,000 free books. I've done Goodreads giveaways. I've approached bloggers. I did an expensive, time-consuming blog tour which was such a failure that I must assume that route is the wrong path. I remain under-reviewed. When one of my books which had no reviews was hit with a two-star bomb, a sympathetic author friend asked me if I had any friends or relatives who could post good reviews that would alleviate the situation. I'm not going there . . .
> I've seen newly released books come out with a nice set of five-star non-verified-purchase customer reviews on their first day out. I don't know where those reviews are coming from. I'm mystified. (Some of them seem to be from ARC readers. Aren't those people paid to read books?) I know a great many authors struggle with the same problem. I don't think there's any solution, but I thought I'd post this in case anyone has a magic formula for getting reviews which they would like to share.
> Something is skewed here: If every promo site is rejecting your book--does it meet page number requirements? Few sites will accept anything less than 100 pages. Is your book edited? Does the book description capture the essence of the story? If we knew the title of your book and looked inside...what would we see? Well-written, well-edited, properly formatted? ebook authors have matured, so has the market. What is the age of your targeted audience? You mention the tour was disaster. Tours don't sell books. Those are for exposure. You can hire a tour promoter such as Book Partners in Crime promotions to design a book review tour. $65 is about right for a book review tour. That takes weeks to fruition. However, the holiday promo season is gearing up--so bloggers are swamped. The best way I've found to gather organic reviews is to put this right after the end in my books: Thank you for taking the time to read [title]. If you enjoyed it, please consider telling your friends or posting a short review. Word of mouth is an author's best friend and much appreciated. Thank you. [author name]." Next I promote the book free and wait patiently for reviews to arrive. And they do. There are dozens of sites that will accept a book sans a review. For a new indie author, pricing matters, the ability to price pulse matters. Like other mentioned: You need a Webpage, a blog, a celebrity Facebook page and a Twitter account. And search out communities of authors in your same genre. Good luck.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Gentle reminder: let's avoid anything that smells of _personal_ criticism, eh? And if the OP has not asked for critique, it is not appropriate to offer it unsolicited. A few posts have been edited or deleted. Thanks for understanding. 

I'll also note that I am NOT an author. But I want to reiterate what some here have said about reviews. It's ONE PERSON's opinion. Whether positive or negative, or if you think they're on a vendetta, it's usually not wise to characterize any reviewer, even anonymously, with any sort of negative words. Folks have a right to their opinions, no matter how 'out there' we personally feel they are. But for an author trying to get more reviews: dissing the folks who've already left 'em is counter-productive. 

Here's the thing: I'm a reader. I see that kind of review and it says more about the reviewer than it does about the book/author. BUT, if I see the author complaining about the reviewer OR the review, or arguing that they're wrong . . . now THAT says something about the AUTHOR. And it ain't necessarily a good thing.  So . . . be careful.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2015)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Gentle reminder: let's avoid anything that smells of _personal_ criticism, eh? And if the OP has not asked for critique, it is not appropriate to offer it unsolicited. A few posts have been edited or deleted. Thanks for understanding.
> 
> I'll also note that I am NOT an author. But I want to reiterate what some here have said about reviews. It's ONE PERSON's opinion. Whether positive or negative, or if you think they're on a vendetta, it's usually not wise to characterize any reviewer, even anonymously, with any sort of negative words. Folks have a right to their opinions, no matter how 'out there' we personally feel they are. But for an author trying to get more reviews: dissing the folks who've already left 'em is counter-productive.
> 
> Here's the thing: I'm a reader. I see that kind of review and it says more about the reviewer than it does about the book/author. BUT, if I see the author complaining about the reviewer OR the review, or arguing that they're wrong . . . now THAT says something about the AUTHOR. And it ain't necessarily a good thing.  So . . . be careful.


Exactly.

It seems to be a newbie author's rite-of-passage to publicly complain about reviews. Even if they're not complaining they're focused on trying to manipulate the organically produced star rating. Sooner or later they'll find out there's a ton of books out there with 100s of 5 star reviews that aren't selling. And if they are lucky enough to get decent promotion the tail is shortlived.

Bottom line if you're writing books people want to read then, in time, you'll have all the readers, reviews and sales you deserve. There's no shortcut around that you have to be good.


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## Margaret M (Oct 8, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> I read the posts from authors sharing their success with various promotions and feel quite helpless.
> ...
> I know a great many authors struggle with the same problem. I don't think there's any solution, but I thought I'd post this in case anyone has a magic formula for getting reviews which they would like to share.


I have the same problem. A few authors here said something about 2-3 weeks. My book has been on Kindle for 3 months now, and still no reviews. I've contacted book bloggers and Amazon reviewers too. I've send roughly 80 letters. I made Free Promotions and used social media to spread the news. 
Still got nothing, except being interviewed once by another author on her site.

If you are from the US or the UK, I think you should find some friends\relatives who could write reviews of your book\books. If they really read it and liked it, I don't think it's unethical. As for me, I live in a county which doesn't have its own national Amazon. So none of my friends or relatives has an account. They haven't even read my book because they don't know English well. 
Good luck.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Margaret M said:


> I have the same problem. A few authors here said something about 2-3 weeks. My book has been on Kindle for 3 months now, and still no reviews. I've contacted book bloggers and Amazon reviewers too. I've send roughly 80 letters. I made Free Promotions and used social media to spread the news.
> Still got nothing, except being interviewed once by another author on her site.
> 
> If you are from the US or the UK, I think you should find some friends\relatives who could write reviews of your book\books. If they really read it and liked it, I don't think it's unethical. As for me, I live in a county which doesn't have its own national Amazon. So none of my friends or relatives has an account. They haven't even read my book because they don't know English well.
> Good luck.


I don't agree, I don't want friends and relatives writing glowing reviews for my books. I want strangers, readers and bloggers, even Beta readers reviewing my books and giving honest feedback/opinions/comments. When I see a reviewer give one 5 star review then never review another book on Amazon, I suspect that's a friend or relative. 
If readers didn't like my book, tell other readers why. If they loved it, do the same.

As I said above, sometimes a reader does not feel a strong desire to review a book because the book didn't provoke them, effect them, trigger any emotions or feelings in them or it triggered a lot of emotions and they have to leave a review.

What genre are you writing in? Sometimes you have to go find the readers who read your genre/types of stories.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Margaret M said:


> If you are from the US or the UK, I think you should find some friends\relatives who could write reviews of your book\books. If they really read it and liked it, I don't think it's unethical.


Yeah, this sort of thing is against Amazon's rules. If they realize the reviews are from close friends or people in your family, the reviews will be deleted.


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## Margaret M (Oct 8, 2015)

mica said:



> What genre are you writing in? Sometimes you have to go find the readers who read your genre/types of stories.


Adventure & dystopia. Yeah, of course. I only approached reviewers and bloggers who claimed it to be their favorite genre or didn't specify their favorite genres at all.


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## Margaret M (Oct 8, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> Yeah, this sort of thing is against Amazon's rules. If they realize the reviews are from close friends or people in your family, the reviews will be deleted.


Really? Well, it seems unfair. If your friend reads a book written by a stranger, it's okay for him to write a review and praise it. If your friend reads your book, it's not okay somehow. It's a strange world we live in. 

But in Russia it's different. My editor even tried to make me ask my friends to write reviews on Russian book sites, but I didn't. I felt awkward. Then she suggested that I write it myself!  She said it's a common practice for authors. Again I didn't. It would have been too weird!


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Exactly.
> 
> It seems to be a newbie author's rite-of-passage to publicly complain about reviews. Even if they're not complaining they're focused on trying to manipulate the organically produced star rating. Sooner or later they'll find out there's a ton of books out there with 100s of 5 star reviews that aren't selling. And if they are lucky enough to get decent promotion the tail is shortlived.
> 
> Bottom line if you're writing books people want to read then, in time, you'll have all the readers, reviews and sales you deserve. There's no shortcut around that you have to be good.


Thank you for mentioning the "newbie author's rite-of-passage." Though I am a newbie, that's not an excuse for my gaffe, as I did show just plain poor judgement by letting my feelings show in public. I admit that I do not handle stress as well as I'd like to. I would like to mention that I don't try to manipulate the organically produced star rating (I say that in order to clear up deleted allegations directed at me).

I came to self-publishing in a state of ignorance. Not mild ignorance - total ignorance. A year ago, I realized that books don't sell themselves, but I didn't know how to advertise. I took the first "opportunities" that presented themselves as I searched the web. I wasted thousands of dollars on roads that led nowhere, having nothing but one bad experience after another. If I'd known about Kboards, I could've been spared this. Looking back, I could've spent that money making my book better, but hindsight is useless. The money is gone, I don't have any more and I have no way of getting more, and that is that.

I wonder how many authors here understand the feeling of being void of knowledge and experience while drowning in an online sea of often misleading information? I suppose you can look at me and judge me to be intellectually inferior because I couldn't sort everything out on my own. Well, I am intellectually inferior. Some years ago I choked on a bit of food and was quite dead for I don't know how long before someone found me and called the paramedics. I was resuscitated into a coma. I was in a coma for weeks. The doctors told my mother I probably wouldn't come out of the coma, and if I did, I would be in a vegetative state for the rest of my life. When I came out of the coma, I couldn't read, write, or speak clearly for many months. I'd lost a lot of my memories; the brain damage wiped them out and they haven't returned. Since my life has been almost entirely unpleasant since the day I came out of my mother's womb, I'd say that's a blessing.

I can write reasonably entertaining fiction despite the brain damage, but all other aspects of life are a struggle for me. Social interaction is torture, for one example. The technical details of things like compiling a mailing list might prove to be impossible for me, though I haven't tried it yet and might surprise myself. I have to fight in order to use my powers of logic, but I haven't lost those powers entirely, so I might be able to do what I have to do in order to survive. I recently purchased the Pixelmator app and I'm figuring it out pretty well. The more I use my brain, the better it gets, though the process of challenging my brain cells is exhausting.

Most of the authors here are very kind people who offer helpful advice and don't judge. To all those authors I say, "I'm glad you're here."


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Nimrodish said:


> Thank you for mentioning the "newbie author's rite-of-passage." Though I am a newbie, that's not an excuse for my gaffe, as I did show just plain poor judgement by letting my feelings show in public. I admit that I do not handle stress as well as I'd like to. I would like to mention that I don't try to manipulate the organically produced star rating (I say that in order to clear up deleted allegations directed at me).
> 
> I came to self-publishing in a state of ignorance. Not mild ignorance - total ignorance. A year ago, I realized that books don't sell themselves, but I didn't know how to advertise. I took the first "opportunities" that presented themselves as I searched the web. I wasted thousands of dollars on roads that led nowhere, having nothing but one bad experience after another. If I'd known about Kboards, I could've been spared this. Looking back, I could've spent that money making my book better, but hindsight is useless. The money is gone, I don't have any more and I have no way of getting more, and that is that.
> 
> ...


I hear ya about not knowing where to start.

Still today, when you google "self-publishing" the stuff that comes up are overpriced vanity presses and other rubbish sites. What surprises me is that not a greater number of people falls in these sticky traps.

At times I'm asked to talk about self-publishing at cons. No, I'm not a giant seller, but believe it or not, I'm one of the bigger sellers who is also active in the Australian SF/F writer community. So I get asked to talk about it at cons. If there is a blackboard in the room, the first thing I do is get up and write in giant letters on the board "KINDLEBOARDS" and tell them that as long as they remember that, they don't have to listen to a single thing I say. I've yet to have a person walk out on me, btw


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2015)

farrago said:


> Nimrodish said:
> 
> 
> > I read the posts from authors sharing their success with various promotions and feel quite helpless. I have been rejected by every promotional venue I've approached that requires a book to be approved by the administrators of the sites. (I assume they're rejecting me because I have so few reviews compared to the other applicants.) Most of the promotional sites are beyond my reach because of their minimum-number-of-reviews requirements. I've given away around 5,000 free books. I've done Goodreads giveaways. I've approached bloggers. I did an expensive, time-consuming blog tour which was such a failure that I must assume that route is the wrong path. I remain under-reviewed. When one of my books which had no reviews was hit with a two-star bomb, a sympathetic author friend asked me if I had any friends or relatives who could post good reviews that would alleviate the situation. I'm not going there . . .
> ...


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> I hear ya about not knowing where to start.
> 
> Still today, when you google "self-publishing" the stuff that comes up are overpriced vanity presses and other rubbish sites. What surprises me is that not a greater number of people falls in these sticky traps.
> 
> At times I'm asked to talk about self-publishing at cons. No, I'm not a giant seller, but believe it or not, I'm one of the bigger sellers who is also active in the Australian SF/F writer community. So I get asked to talk about it at cons. If there is a blackboard in the room, the first thing I do is get up and write in giant letters on the board "KINDLEBOARDS" and tell them that as long as they remember that, they don't have to listen to a single thing I say. I've yet to have a person walk out on me, btw


That's great!


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## Margaret M (Oct 8, 2015)

Nicknacks said:


> Friends/family tend to be biased towards (general) your work, so will likely leave more positive reviews than complete strangers.


Oh, I guess you're right. I see it now.


Nicknacks said:


> And your editor recommends that you sockpuppet reviews?? Uhm...run away!


I can't.) She works in the biggest (and almost the only) publishing house in Russia. Thus, I have nowhere to run)) I just don't listen to her.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Margaret M said:


> Oh, I guess you're right. I see it now.
> 
> I can't.) She works in the biggest (and almost the only) publishing house in Russia. Thus, I have nowhere to run)) I just don't listen to her.


Oh my. Well, if she puts pressure on you, here are the links to Amazon's rules regarding reviews:

General Guidelines
FAQs


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## NanSweet (Apr 14, 2015)

Reviews can make or break an author looking for advertising, though.  To be honest, I came here to find out what others are saying.  I have 57 reviews but need more to crack BookBub.  I know I can pay $400 for Kirkus and that *might* make a difference, but to spend that kind of money on a maybe for a 'professional' review just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe others can speak to whether or not it's worthwhile.

(The 57 reviews I have so far came from having the first book set free.  I've emailed bloggers who review Middle Grade Fantasy. It's a time-consuming process, but worth it.  Those are the only suggestions I have...)


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

NanSweet said:


> Reviews can make or break an author looking for advertising, though. To be honest, I came here to find out what others are saying. I have 57 reviews but need more to crack BookBub. I know I can pay $400 for Kirkus and that *might* make a difference, but to spend that kind of money on a maybe for a 'professional' review just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe others can speak to whether or not it's worthwhile.
> 
> (The 57 reviews I have so far came from having the first book set free. I've emailed bloggers who review Middle Grade Fantasy. It's a time-consuming process, but worth it. Those are the only suggestions I have...)


I got a Bookbub with 54 reviews and I've seen them accept with less... Certainly more helps...


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## Margaret M (Oct 8, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> Oh my. Well, if she puts pressure on you, here are the links to Amazon's rules regarding reviews:


No, I was talking about Russian sites selling books. Not Amazon. 


NanSweet said:


> I've emailed bloggers who review Middle Grade Fantasy. It's a time-consuming process, but worth it.


How many of them did you email (roughly)? And what's the percentage of answers?


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