# Disillusioned by the whole Self Pub Move



## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I'm feeling very disillusioned by the entire Self Pub Journey, and I'm looking for insight, support, commentary, discussion...anything really.

Ok...I'm going to lament. I have a good product (reviews show this, I'm not being vein) a great cover (again, reviews support this), my book has been edited, the blurb has received praise, I've messed with meta data up the wahzoo, changed my categories, fiddled with the price, READ every book put out there by EVERY successful self pubber, devoured all of J Penn's blogs, viewed her aids, listened to HOURS of podcasts, (hers and other), have a healthy twitter following and FB following, am very active on both, PAID for advertising (which yielded ZERO, don't do this), ran a successful countdown deal (in conjunction with reasonable advertising (do do this), ended up #1 in Steampunk (been there a few times) and #46 in YA SCI FI, THEN fell directly off within days, (had people download the book in that flurry only to return it the next day...sigh) have thrown successful FB parties, solicited and received reviews (despite being turned away by most over being SP), I've even broken into the big box stores  securing SHELF SPACE (on my own) and conducting successful signings (in store) selling 100's of books in person (which don't show on Amazon or anywhere else) and yes, I'm writing another book to feed the monster...and yet...my book has recently ground to a disturbing halt. 

I don't get it. I seriously know what more to do. I'm soooooo disillusioned by stories of all these self pubbers who did ONE of something on the list of things I've done above and broke out, usually around the 3rd month mark and started selling gang busters (small but well at first then bigger, or some say 100's of copies daily/month). (To be clear, I don't expect to become an instant success, I just want to start steadily selling books with a goal to make enough to pay back what I put into creating it by the end of the year, and perhaps dinner with my freakin' supportive hubby...at this point.) Was it just the times? Was it because SP was relatively new? That the market wasn't swamp? That the rules of Amazon allowed them to gain notoriety over free sales rankings? Has it all changed now Amazon is preventing sp from doing this? Is it getting more impossible to get anywhere? Is anyone else experiencing this?


I don't know what to think anymore...
Thoughts?


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## ER Pierce (Jun 4, 2013)

Welcome to self-publishing, where nothing makes sense, and there are no absolutes. I'm sorry you're frustrated. I feel you.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

That all sounds rough.  

What is your baseline for success? With all that are you selling a book a day or are you expecting hundreds? You seem to follow all the recommended steps, but what are your expectations? 
One thing that may well be holding you back is having only one title out. Don't give up!
Also, this is a generally friendly bunch. Put up your cover and blurb for some critical eyeballs.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Your expectations of what one book will do (without major publicity) is out of whack.

One book rarely just takes off. You have to write more. Hugh Howey had seven out before WOOL, all getting great reviews and not many sales. HM Ward had over ten out.... and the list goes on and on.
I'm working on my seventh release, just released number six on April 29th...

Over night success is rarely overnight. More like 5 - 6 years and at least ten books.


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## Ronny K (Aug 2, 2011)

Quiss said:


> One thing that may well be holding you back is having only one title out. Don't give up!


This is what sprang to my mind, and it will be the most common advice you receive here (even though it's the most frustrating advice). Unless you've written that one in a million hit that catches on by whatever luck, the way to build a career and steady sales is with more books.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> Ok...I'm going to lament. I have a good product (reviews show this, I'm not being vein) a great cover (again, reviews support this), my book has been edited, the blurb has received praise


What others have said, but adding to ask if you can point us to your book? All of the above is well and fine, but you have a lot of experience available on this board and in some cases what one thinks is an awesome blurb / cover / etc is actually in need of some tweaking. Also, it helps with the context of what you're asking.


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## Guest (May 2, 2014)

If it was easy - we'd all be doing it.

Some books take off, some genres need decent material desperately, so when you produce something half way decent it flies.

Sometimes, you take a while to break into the market because the reader needs time to get to know you. As is already said, one book, is probably not enough.

Sometimes it's your blurb, others its the cover. My gut reaction is the same as others - one book plus a conservative reader.

Keep at it. When it happens you still won't know what it was that shifted. If we knew - it would be patented, bottled and sold over the counter for an extortionate sum.


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## fallswriter (Sep 11, 2012)

It sounds like you did your research, have been keeping up with the status of your book, and are trying to figure out the magic behind sales. That's a frustrating place to be. However, consider that you're in some very tough categories and sub-genres. Not only is the readership for those different than others, the readers of steampunk & sci-fi are harder to pin down what works and what doesn't. Then you add in YA, which is another hard genre to figure out what works and what doesn't. There are many good threads here that can help you figure out the best things you can do next.

One thing to remember is that this is a long game. Sounds like you've started building a very nice foundation for your work. Writing the next book is definitely the best step you can take. And then get another one out there. If you search through the KB threads, you'll see the same sentiment over and over - build your catalog. There are many threads here that would say that paid advertising will work better when you have follow-up pieces to encourage readers to join your "team" by reading the first book. Things you haven't mentioned - do you have a good platform for fans to find you and interact with you? A blog? Twitter? Google Plus? One of the perks of being an indie author is having a more direct relationship with the reader. Since your work is in the YA category, are you trying to get your book into schools & libraries? There are some good threads about how people have been forging their way into those spaces. But again, your best strategy will be to keep going


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

I think the point is being missed here. I am not expecting to be a break out success. I may not have written that one book in a million, but I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...
I guess I'm just tired of all the hype about selling 100's of books a day if you tick all the boxes mentioned above...I think things have changed drastically...and no one is adjusting the stories...


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> I have a good product (reviews show this, I'm not being vein) a great cover (again, reviews support this), my book has been edited, the blurb has received praise, I've messed with meta data up the wahzoo, changed my categories, fiddled with the price, READ every book put out there by EVERY successful self pubber, devoured all of J Penn's blogs, viewed her aids, listened to HOURS of podcasts, (hers and other), have a healthy twitter following and FB following, am very active on both, PAID for advertising (which yielded ZERO, don't do this), ran a successful countdown deal (in conjunction with reasonable advertising (do do this), ended up #1 in Steampunk (been there a few times) and #46 in YA SCI FI, THEN fell directly off within days, (had people download the book in that flurry only to return it the next day...sigh) have thrown successful FB parties, solicited and received reviews (despite being turned away by most over being SP), I've even broken into the big box stores securing SHELF SPACE (on my own) and conducting successful signings (in store) selling 100's of books in person (which don't show on Amazon or anywhere else) and yes, I'm writing another book to feed the monster...and yet...my book has recently ground to a disturbing halt.


Who is J Penn? 
Just curious. Maybe I'm missing something.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> I think the point is being missed here. I am not expecting to be a break out success. I may not have written that one book in a million, but I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...
> I guess I'm just tired of all the hype about selling 100's of books a day if you tick all the boxes mentioned above...I think things have changed drastically...and no one is adjusting the stories...


That's kind of the point a lot of folks here are trying to make. One can do quite literally *everything* right and still not sell. That's the risks in this business. There's only opportunity, no guarantees. There's definitely a right place / right time element to it all which no amount of planning will necessarily trigger. Really the best thing one can do to hedge their bets is to keep writing, keep improving, and keep putting more books out there - and even then there is still a far greater than even chance of lightning not striking.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...


5-10 books a day for a single title would be amazing to, I'm guessing, 80% of all indie publishers.
The trouble is that the outliers are the ones that receive the "overnight success" media exposure. After all, who cares about those who sell 20 books a month? Lots of those around. So, yes, the hype is over those success stories but they are NOT the norm.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> I guess I'm just tired of all the hype about selling 100's of books a day if you tick all the boxes mentioned above...I think things have changed drastically...and no one is adjusting the stories...


For 99.9% of authors, that only works if you have more product and are releasing at least quarterly. You're trying to launch a career off of one book. Hardly anyone has ever made that happen. No book, even a top five trade bestseller stays up forever. A lot of people don't even published until they have three books in a series. I'm not sure who you've been talking to that tells you one book will sell hundreds a day as the only offering, until the ends of time, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're probably wrong.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

I'm sorry, I'm fairly new to the boards and I can't figure out how to reply to you individually, so I'll just do it here. Thank you all first, for the comments, in particular fallswriter...and yes, have gone to the schools but I live in Canada and they don't let you in here unless you are backed by Trad Pub (ONTARIO) they are leery of who meets students and their message and trust only the traditional stream. J Penn...is JoAnna Penn...quite the wealth of information...look her up...

Here is the link to my book and blurb...http://www.amazon.com/Lumière-Illumination-Paradox-Jacqueline-Garlick-ebook/dp/B00H9GXS1Q

Thanks again...


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Having multiple books out is what made the biggest increase in sales for me. Once you have a second book you, you can play around with different promos, including free and may see an increase then. It's hard to get much going with just one book.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

TobiasRoote said:


> If it was easy - we'd all be doing it.
> 
> Some books take off, some genres need decent material desperately, so when you produce something half way decent it flies.
> 
> ...





Rick Gualtieri said:


> That's kind of the point a lot of folks here are trying to make. One can do quite literally *everything* right and still not sell. That's the risks in this business. There's only opportunity, no guarantees. There's definitely a right place / right time element to it all which no amount of planning will necessarily trigger. Really the best thing one can do to hedge their bets is to keep writing, keep improving, and keep putting more books out there - and even then there is still a greater than even chance of lightning not striking.


 Thanks for this...really feeling like I'm missing something...not doing something right...losing my mind trying to keep up with the marketing...and feeling like I could be doing MORE, I guess...


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Here is the link to my book and blurb...http://www.amazon.com/Lumiere-Illumination-Paradox-Jacqueline-Garlick-ebook/dp/B00H9GXS1Q
> 
> Thanks again...


Wow, you're right. Beautiful cover, decent blurb, excellent reviews. 
I don't read YA, so I'm no help there.
All I can say is KEEP WRITING and don't look at the numbers.


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## Guest (May 2, 2014)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Your expectations of what one book will do (without major publicity) is out of whack.
> 
> One book rarely just takes off. You have to write more. Hugh Howey had seven out before WOOL, all getting great reviews and not many sales. HM Ward had over ten out.... and the list goes on and on.
> I'm working on my seventh release, just released number six on April 29th...
> ...


^^^^^THIS^^^^^

You wrote one book and you expect that to carry you. It usually doesn't work that way.


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

> Welcome to self-publishing, where nothing makes sense, and there are no absolutes. I'm sorry you're frustrated. I feel you.


This is all true ^, as is the advice to write more books.

I was just thinking, because of another thread, of the number of times I've seen people write, "Why isn't my book selling?" And usually the answer is in the question---the singular 'book.' Your cover and reviews are great. Write more like that and you'll sell.

I remember an interview with Amanda Hocking where she said, "Who knows why people suddenly started buying my book?" She was very gracious about it, and attributed a lot to being in the right place at the right time. I think you'll find that with a lot of success stories, be they in writing or elsewhere.

Keep doing what you're doing, because it looks like you're doing everything right.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> Here is the link to my book and blurb...http://www.amazon.com/Lumiere-Illumination-Paradox-Jacqueline-Garlick-ebook/dp/B00H9GXS1Q


Thanks, and I will concur with what you said, that is quite the awesome cover. 

However, I think the number 1 thing that is going to hold you back right now is that it's book 1 of a series and the only volume out right now. In my case I didn't see an increase in sales until I had 3 books (in my series...5 overall) available - at that point you're kinda telling people you're here to stay and not going to disappear before the series is over.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Jana DeLeon said:


> For 99.9% of authors, that only works if you have more product and are releasing at least quarterly. You're trying to launch a career off of one book. Hardly anyone has ever made that happen. No book, even a top five trade bestseller stays up forever. A lot of people don't even published until they have three books in a series. I'm not sure who you've been talking to that tells you one book will sell hundreds a day as the only offering, until the ends of time, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're probably wrong.


 Truth. Truth. It is portrayed like it's the norm. I left Trad pub to do this and I'm now feeling the pull from friends to return. People saying what would it hurt to try to sell your next book trad way again? I'm torn thinking, well, it would mean it would sit on someone's desk for about six months, back and forth, agent to me, then editor to editor...when maybe it could be helping my self pub market to open up...I'm torn...
I guess I'm just to that point where I'm feeling lost at the moment...


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Try sacrificing a goat, and then writing another book.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Quiss said:


> Wow, you're right. Beautiful cover, decent blurb, excellent reviews.
> I don't read YA, so I'm no help there.
> All I can say is KEEP WRITING and don't look at the numbers.


 Thanks... thanks so much... I'm just feeling lost. So this helps. I think I spent too much getting this off the ground, and well, I'm never going to make it back at this point...and funds are low...and I honestly can't spend the money needed to make the next cover...I may have to look for a bit of Kickstarter help...


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

It took me 11 years and 7 books before I even started seeing real numbers, and by real I don't mean thousands a month, only hundreds. It was book 7, lucky number 7, that saw a change. Also, it was my second series, not my first that took off. I have 4 series, and only one "made it" the others provide a decent but low backlist income.

One book will not cut it.

Promoting one book, unless its to build a mailing list for later, is pretty much a waste of money. Free promos, fine, but your time will be better spent building a body of work.

EDIT: Being disillusioned is understandable, but a bit pointless. You would be no further ahead going the "other" route I assure you. What would you be doing while waiting for all those agents to send their form rejection letters? Writing another book correct? That's exactly what you should be doing. Writing more books and getting them out. Write Publish Repeat.


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## NRWick (Mar 22, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> I'm sorry, I'm fairly new to the boards and I can't figure out how to reply to you individually, so I'll just do it here. Thank you all first, for the comments, in particular fallswriter...and yes, have gone to the schools but I live in Canada and they don't let you in here unless you are backed by Trad Pub (ONTARIO) they are leery of who meets students and their message and trust only the traditional stream. J Penn...is JoAnna Penn...quite the wealth of information...look her up...
> 
> Here is the link to my book and blurb...http://www.amazon.com/Lumiere-Illumination-Paradox-Jacqueline-Garlick-ebook/dp/B00H9GXS1Q
> 
> Thanks again...


Jackie, the number 1 most important thing for selling YA as a self pubber is to have a series. I don't know if your book is set up to be a series or not, but if it isn't, find a way to organically make it a series and get the next 2-3 books out. Even if you can't find a way to turn it into a series, that's fine, but start writing a new series instead. YA and stand alone books from self-pubs are much much harder to sell a lot of. Like others have said here, you can't expect what you are describing to happen with an arsenal of one book.

(Also, gorgeous cover for sure!)


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Try sacrificing a goat, and then writing another book.


 HA! Poor goat...


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks for this...really feeling like I'm missing something...not doing something right...losing my mind trying to keep up with the marketing...and feeling like I could be doing MORE, I guess...


Less marketing - more writing - get to it.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> HA! Poor goat...


Yeah, but if you can't afford another cover, it's gonna be tough to spring for a goat. I agree with Quiss, that cover's cool. But there are good steampunk covers available for $30.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> . I think I spent too much getting this off the ground, and well, I'm never going to make it back at this point...a


It's digital. Not going anywhere. Just because it's not selling by the barrel now doesn't mean it won't in the future. It's an investment.


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## ToriWritesWords (Mar 26, 2014)

I can't speak to sales or strategies, but your cover is gorgeous and your prose is wonderful. Just bought myself a copy. ^_^


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I get disillusioned with the whole business every time I put out a new release. I usually go through a cranky few days where I'm all, "Why is this so hard?" And "Why don't enough people like me?" And "What am I doing wrong?"

And I've been supporting myself and my boyfriend solely through my writing for two and a half years.

I think we writers are primed to never be satisfied with what we have.

Rest assured, there is someone out there looking at your book and thinking, "Man. I can't get my book ranked higher than 700,000 to save my life." Or, "Man. I wish I could _finish_ a book."

Not that knowing there are people doing worse than me (lots of people) ever makes me feel better, of course. No. I want MOAR. I want to be like all the other people who are doing better than _me._ (Who are, in turn, not satisfied with themselves either, I guarantee.)

Occasionally, I have moments of sanity in which I realize that A-I am me, and they are them, and I can only ever be me. B-I'm on my own journey, and I have to keep going one step at a time. C-I win this thing as long as I don't give up. D-I've accomplished _so much_ already.

But mostly, I just feel whiny and jealous. I think it's hardwired into writer DNA.


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## ElaStein (Feb 8, 2014)

It sounds like your book did sell reasonably well at some points in time. I don't think you can expect it to keep selling and selling well indefinitely. I think they sell more in the beginning, and then when you put out new books, you might be attracting new readers through those that would then buy other books you'd previously written. So write more books, and then the new ones will hopefully sell well, and help sell a bit more of the older ones too.


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## GaryCecil (Jan 5, 2014)

After you sacrifice the goat, write a short story that ties into this book and make it PERMA-FREE, and upload it to every FREE site you can find. Put a mailing list in there as well. Have that story be the link to your book series. You've obviously spent a TON of time on it, now make it more accessible! People are MUCH more likely (if they enjoy your free short) to give you the 4 bones and "try you out."


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> It took me 11 years and 7 books before I even started seeing real numbers, and by real I don't mean thousands a month, only hundreds. It was book 7, lucky number 7, that saw a change. Also, it was my second series, not my first that took off. I have 4 series, and only one "made it" the others provide a decent but low backlist income.
> 
> One book will not cut it.
> 
> ...


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I think there are just so few readers out there and so many books that it requires a good book, good marketing and a whole lot of luck. Somehow some books seem to catch on and get word of mouth viral spread, but its hard to identify why...


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Chad Winters said:


> I think there are just so few readers out there


? So few readers? I'll admit there's almost certainly a glut of books for sale, but I've never ever heard the claim of not enough readers.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ToriWritesWords said:


> I can't speak to sales or strategies, but your cover is gorgeous and your prose is wonderful. Just bought myself a copy. ^_^


 Oh Wow, Tori! Unexpected surprise....thank YOU!


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## ToriWritesWords (Mar 26, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Oh Wow, Tori! Unexpected surprise....thank YOU!


I'm sucker for Steampunk and I also write YA, so I read lots of it. You had me at mechanical elephant.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ToriWritesWords said:


> I'm sucker for Steampunk and I also write YA, so I read lots of it. You had me at mechanical elephant.


 Thanks...good to know!!! lol Hope you enjoy!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

GaryCecil said:


> After you sacrifice the goat, write a short story that ties into this book and make it PERMA-FREE, and upload it to every FREE site you can find. Put a mailing list in there as well. Have that story be the link to your book series. You've obviously spent a TON of time on it, now make it more accessible! People are MUCH more likely (if they enjoy your free short) to give you the 4 bones and "try you out."


I do like this idea...thank you...sounds like a great idea...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

You are all correct. I just need to get of social media, put my head down and write like the wind. I need to just stop waffling and believe in myself and my decisions I guess. So hard when my agent keeps asking if I have anything new for him to pedal...and tempting me into the fold where, if successful (sale I mean) access to exposure feel sooooo much easier...


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

You're doing everything right. The only thing that you're missing is the next book. I can't think of too many authors that sold a bunch with just one title (even in the traditional world). So the best thing is to write at least 2 more connected books, if possible, and release them at intervals of about 3 months apart. 

There are some authors who recommend waiting until you have 3 books before you even launch so that you can release in quick succession and take advantage of the discoverability algorithms on Amazon. Not everyone agrees with that but I can see why it works for a lot of people. Keep in mind that all books are competing on the same stage now. Whether you are publishing yourself or someone else is doing it, the end result is still you working to be visible on the digital arena. (Unless you get a publisher that commits large amounts of advertising money to your book to push visibility).

Every book you put out serves as a touch point for readers to find you. The jump in visibility when I published Book 3 and Book 4 of my series was fantastic. So don't be discouraged! Your book looks great and you're definitely on the right track. But I understand it's hard to be patient because I'm the same way


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

Jackie, I don't have anything to add to the wealth of advice in this thread. But your original post pulled at me. (((((((Big hug)))))))) Hang on! Write and publish book #2, I think things are going to turn around for you. You have the skill- keep writing!!!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ER Pierce said:


> Welcome to self-publishing, where nothing makes sense, and there are no absolutes. I'm sorry you're frustrated. I feel you.


 Thanks btw...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

SunshineOnMe said:


> Jackie, I don't have anything to add to the wealth of advice in this thread. But your original post pulled at me. (((((((Big hug)))))))) Hang on! Write and publish book #2, I think things are going to turn around for you. You have the skill- keep writing!!!


 Thank YOU. I needed that HUG!


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

valeriec80 said:


> Not that knowing there are people doing worse than me (lots of people) ever makes me feel better, of course. No. I want MOAR. I want to be like all the other people who are doing better than _me._ (Who are, in turn, not satisfied with themselves either, I guarantee.)
> 
> Occasionally, I have moments of sanity in which I realize that A-I am me, and they are them, and I can only ever be me. B-I'm on my own journey, and I have to keep going one step at a time. C-I win this thing as long as I don't give up. D-I've accomplished _so much_ already.
> 
> But mostly, I just feel whiny and jealous. I think it's hardwired into writer DNA.


Ha, this is all so true! Jackie, get your second book out as soon as you can. My second book was truly the key (and the 3rd and 4th, working on 5th right now). You'll get there, don't give up and just power through the disillusioned feelings we all get.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> ? So few readers? I'll admit there's almost certainly a glut of books for sale, but I've never ever heard the claim of not enough readers.


Well, I think supply has outpaced demand, so not enough

I think if discussing the general population, there are fewer "readers", people who buy many books a year and there is much more competition for free time....internet, social sites, TC, movies, etc. 
That combined with the explosion of books being produced does make success harder. I read more books now than ever but as a SF/F reader I used to feel I could read at least a significant portion of the interesting books produced in the genre each year, now I feel like my TBR list of already purchased kindle books combined with the series I must complete will outlive me if I stop buying now, so adding a new book to that is a difficult hurdle for a new book.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

minxmalone said:


> You're doing everything right. The only thing that you're missing is the next book. I can't think of too many authors that sold a bunch with just one title (even in the traditional world). So the best thing is to write at least 2 more connected books, if possible, and release them at intervals of about 3 months apart.
> 
> There are some authors who recommend waiting until you have 3 books before you even launch so that you can release in quick succession and take advantage of the discoverability algorithms on Amazon. Not everyone agrees with that but I can see why it works for a lot of people. Keep in mind that all books are competing on the same stage now. Whether you are publishing yourself or someone else is doing it, the end result is still you working to be visible on the digital arena. (Unless you get a publisher that commits large amounts of advertising money to your book to push visibility).
> 
> Every book you put out serves as a touch point for readers to find you. The jump in visibility when I published Book 3 and Book 4 of my series was fantastic. So don't be discouraged! Your book looks great and you're definitely on the right track. But I understand it's hard to be patient because I'm the same way


Thanks for this...wise words...though I do see my trad book friends getting a bit of an advantage on visibility even digitally...but then again, my friends have sold books with decent marketing packages attached...

Thanks though, you are right...I just need to write...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Lionel's Mom said:


> Ha, this is all so true! Jackie, get your second book out as soon as you can. My second book was truly the key (and the 3rd and 4th, working on 5th right now). You'll get there, don't give up and just power through the disillusioned feelings we all get.


Thanks...


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## GaryCecil (Jan 5, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> You are all correct. I just need to get of social media, put my head down and write like the wind. I need to just stop waffling and believe in myself and my decisions I guess. So hard when my agent keeps asking if I have anything new for him to pedal...and tempting me into the fold where, if successful (sale I mean) access to exposure feel sooooo much easier...


Get that short story out. It should work wonders for you. Try and keep that free book high in the top 100 somewhere on some list, and you WILL get daily downloads. Keep the word count low, so that they finish it, but could still be left wanting more. HELL, even add the first two chapters of your novel on the back of it!!!! Or however many chapters you have, where that ends in one of those "I have to keep reading" moments.

Your novel is too long to just give away for free, but maybe (5 years from now), you could, as it will lead readers into the next books.

But for now, just get that short story out there. It's the fastest/easiest way for you to introduce readers to your book's world. You can even use the same cover, just make it clear that it's a short story. !


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ebbrown said:


> Who is J Penn?
> Just curious. Maybe I'm missing something.


JoAnna Pen...a wealth of information...you can google her.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

GaryCecil said:


> Get that short story out. It should work wonders for you. Try and keep that free book high in the top 100 somewhere on some list, and you WILL get daily downloads. Keep the word count low, so that they finish it, but could still be left wanting more. HELL, even add the first two chapters of your novel on the back of it!!!! Or however many chapters you have, where that ends in one of those "I have to keep reading" moments.
> 
> Your novel is too long to just give away for free, but maybe (5 years from now), you could, as it will lead draw readers into the next books.
> 
> But for now, just get that short story out there. It's the fastest/easiest way for you to introduce readers to your book's world. You can even use the same cover, just make it clear that it's a short story. !


Thanks Gary, this advice is brilliant! And YES, book one is too long for free...I'd owe money on every sale...as due to the file size, it costs me money on every sale as it is now...(another lesson learned...)


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> One book rarely just takes off. You have to write more.


This.

It seems to me that you're putting an inordinate amount of time working hard at promoting this one book on social media, low priced advertising, and in general fawning over it.

Set it aside. Stop promoting it. Stop advertising it. Nothing sells a book better than a sequel. My first sold less than 15 the first month, while I worked on my second. Once the second one published three months later, both started selling 2-5 a day. Once the third was published, all three started to take off. Book one has slid to about 7-10 a day, while the other two have pretty much replaced my day job income.

Get to work on that next book!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

EelKat said:


> Quantity is key, very few novelists see any real success before their 10th book release, and for writers of shorts, it usually takes somewhere around 50 titles published before they take off. Granted there are a few who get big on 1 or 2 titles, but most of the folks I've talked to, had to really boost their backlog before they saw an income they could live off of. I've never done any of the things you've listed. Never bought an ad, never once promoted a book, don't have covers even close to professional on the majority of my titles, do my own editing, and I successfully live off my writing full time because I have 200+ titles up.
> 
> 200 x $2.99 x 70% = $418.60 a week x 52 weeks = $21,767.20 a year, which is still below the national poverty level ($23k for a single person) but it's almost double minimum wage ($14k)
> 
> ...


I have no words. I've never thought of it this way... 
It is an interesting perspective though...
And you are right, you are the one making money


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

minxmalone said:


> You're doing everything right. The only thing that you're missing is the next book. I can't think of too many authors that sold a bunch with just one title (even in the traditional world). So the best thing is to write at least 2 more connected books, if possible, and release them at intervals of about 3 months apart.
> 
> There are some authors who recommend waiting until you have 3 books before you even launch so that you can release in quick succession and take advantage of the discoverability algorithms on Amazon. Not everyone agrees with that but I can see why it works for a lot of people. Keep in mind that all books are competing on the same stage now. Whether you are publishing yourself or someone else is doing it, the end result is still you working to be visible on the digital arena. (Unless you get a publisher that commits large amounts of advertising money to your book to push visibility).
> 
> Every book you put out serves as a touch point for readers to find you. The jump in visibility when I published Book 3 and Book 4 of my series was fantastic. So don't be discouraged! Your book looks great and you're definitely on the right track. But I understand it's hard to be patient because I'm the same way


This. This. This.

Gorgeous cover, great blurb. Don't look at your sales. BICHOK and bust out the next book, then permafree this one. If you did that, I bet you cafe mocha latte that you will see amazing results with such a well packaged product. And then? Don't look at sales some more, and write the next one.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Ha!  You were just on Kobo Writing Life.  

Write more books.  That's it.  Write more.

For a YA, the opening is a little bit of a hard sell.  It's written in a lovely way, but it's from the POV of an eight-year-old.  The problem is that young readers are aspirational.  They like reading about OLDER characters.  So you'll lose a certain number by starting out with Eyelet as a child.

But the fact of the matter is that unless you're Harper Lee, you can't make it on one book.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> This.
> 
> It seems to me that you're putting an inordinate amount of time working hard at promoting this one book on social media, low priced advertising, and in general fawning over it.
> 
> ...


SEE these are the kinds of comments I mean...what does that mean, exactly...(not to pry, and thank you for your note...but) what does "replace my day job income," mean...10-20-30-50-100 books a day? Ball park? So I understand. And have a goal to set that is reasonable? I lost my job over a health issues 7 years back, so writing is now it for me (not that I don't love that idea...but), so it would be nice to replace even some of my former income....I'd love a goal to set that was reasonable...so I could feel as though I was contributing to the family again


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

MOAR books. That's what you need. Just as everyone else said. Welcome to Kboards!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Chrisbwritin said:


> This. This. This.
> 
> Gorgeous cover, great blurb. Don't look at your sales. BICHOK and bust out the next book, then permafree this one. If you did that, I bet you cafe mocha latte that you will see amazing results with such a well packaged product. And then? Don't look at sales some more, and write the next one.


I so love that...cafe mocha latte bet on...I will try to come through. And thank you for the compliments on the cover.


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## fallswriter (Sep 11, 2012)

I want to add: Great cover, good blurb, interesting story concept

But also: You have a great website! Very nice looking. And your FB page already has over 500 Likes. That's incredible! I think you've got a handle on marketing yourself if you've done all of this already with one book. Now add more books to build a strong series, and you'll probably see your numbers soar in ways that others in this thread have already suggested.

If not anything else, you convinced me to purchase the book, sign up for your newsletter, and Like your FB page. So I'm on board!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vmblack said:


> Ha! You were just on Kobo Writing Life.
> 
> Write more books. That's it. Write more.
> 
> ...


YES! I was on KOBO writing life...though I was all shiny and new at the time and under the spell...lol
Now, not so much...hit a road bump...hope to get back to her!
The book starts with Eyelet as a child on purpose...it is necessary to show her life and world before all the destruction as a teen...I know...it's hard that this is what shows up on the READ ME bit...but it is what it is...sadly...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

fallswriter said:


> I want to add: Great cover, good blurb, interesting story concept
> 
> But also: You have a great website! Very nice looking. And your FB page already has over 500 Likes. That's incredible! I think you've got a handle on marketing yourself if you've done all of this already with one book. Now add more books to build a strong series, and you'll probably see your numbers soar in ways that others in this thread have already suggested.
> 
> If not anything else, you convinced me to purchase the book, sign up for your newsletter, and Like your FB page. So I'm on board!


Wow! Thanks, unexpected pleasure!!! THANKS so much for joining me on this crazy journey!!! lol


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

Jackie,

As others have said, you're not likely to see breakout sales on a first novel, or even on the fifth or the tenth. People like Hugh Howey are at the tip of the tip of the self-published iceberg. For every Hugh Howey there are a dozen writers every bit as talented, whose stories are just as engrossing, but they will never enjoy more than poor to modest sales.

I write in two categories: television commentary (nonfiction) and fiction, so far historical fiction and sci-fi. I gained a following in 2009-2010 with my blogs on the television show LOST, and turned that following into an immediate #1 bestseller, LOST Humanity, the #1 bestselling LOST ebook ever published. But my novels--I doubt a day's gone by that I haven't lamented the strange truth that there's almost zero crossover between nonfiction and fiction. I've sold one copy of Cartier's Ring this year. This YEAR. I've sold zero copies of Deneb. I think I sold 30 last year. The artwork for Deneb--two covers plus 34 internal illustrations and five maps--set me back $3600.

Yet, if you look at the reviews, you'll see everyone who's read the novels loved them. Cartier's Ring, especially, struck a chord. My novels have yet to receive anything less than 4 stars from any reviewer. There are no grammar or usage errors in my novels. After 30+ years as a professional technical writer (scientific reports and articles in the pharmaceutical industry) I have unusual fluency in the written language. Yet the novels don't sell.

You need a following. You get there by word of mouth and by writing more. The word of mouth component is the most difficult part of the book-selling equation. I have yet to figure it out. Most will say you need luck, and that's probably as good a way as any of describing the true nature of the problem. If you're talented and if your stories are interesting and if you continue writing, someday a key communicator will read your 14th novel. She'll tell her friends, two of whom are also key communicators. In a few months you'll be attracting thousands of readers. On the other hand, after writing 23 novels, you may go undiscovered.

If you're truly a writer you'll continue writing. If you're in it for the money, there are far easier ways to earn a living. I wish you every success!


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Pearson Moore said:


> For every Hugh Howey there are a dozen writers every bit as talented, whose stories are just as engrossing, but they will never enjoy more than poor to modest sales.


Hmm.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Pearson Moore said:


> Jackie,
> 
> As others have said, you're not likely to see breakout sales on a first novel, or even on the fifth or the tenth. People like Hugh Howey are at the tip of the tip of the self-published iceberg. For every Hugh Howey there are a dozen writers every bit as talented, whose stories are just as engrossing, but they will never enjoy more than poor to modest sales.
> 
> ...


Wow, just wow...and you are right about the communicators...telling more people and the word of mouth phenomenon. I wish you too, continued success, and MORE luck. I am a former teacher, but I have always been learning disabled, and thus, need to rely on copyediting heavily...so you possess a great talent, you might also consider sharing.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> YES! I was on KOBO writing life...though I was all shiny and new at the time and under the spell...lol
> Now, not so much...hit a road bump...hope to get back to her!
> The book starts with Eyelet as a child on purpose...it is necessary to show her life and world before all the destruction as a teen...I know...it's hard that this is what shows up on the READ ME bit...but it is what it is...sadly...


That's what flashbacks are for.  Or a prologue that start with, "My life is destroyed! But it wasn't always this way. Blah, blah, blah." (Content, not words, obviously. LOL.)

Not a craft issue. A market issue. Markets matter too if your goal is to sell.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point.


That's 1800-3600 copies a year. At $3.99, that's $5,000-10,000 a year from a single book.

A typical new trade-published SF author apparently only makes about $5,000 from their first novel, and few writers are making that much money from a single self-published novel. I like the cover and thought the blurb was OK, but I'm still not sure what genre it actually is? It's listed as steampunk, which isn't a big-selling genre, but makes a lot of being a romance, which is. I wonder if that confusion may not be helping the right readers to find it.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

One more thing. You're 48 in YA steampunk. I'd suggest that it's possible that you are doing well, you're just doing well in a sub-genre that doesn't have particularly high sales.


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

Think of it this way (or, at least, this is how I frame it in my neurotic freak outs...)

Your first book is an invitation for readers to get to know you. How you write, how you spin a story. They either love it, like it, or hate it. Your reviews say they love it and want more. You've opened the door on the relationship, but without writing more you've left the conversation hanging. You're in that awkward stage where you're umming and pausing. 

So stop thinking about your sales. Start thinking about developing the relationship you could have with readers deeper. 

Or, in other words, put that next book out. And then the next one. Just in case no one's mentioned write more books.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Jackie I think the moral of your original post is to recognise that book marketing advice is just that, advice. The main people that it benefits are those who sell book marketing advice books. I prefer Hugh Howey's non-marketing advice


> Forget promotion, just write another great book


.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Hi.  Get your next book written.  Here is the thing.  I can love your book.  I can buy your book.  But if you only have one book, the most you can get out of me is 4 dollars.  Now if you have more books out there then I can spend more money on you.  If you only have one, I will promptly forget you and move on the next great author.
If you have several and are good, I will save my pennies and buy most if not all of your books.
You mentioned J Penn, is she trad or self published?  
I wish you all the luck in the world.


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## 58907 (Apr 3, 2012)

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,124433.0.html

This thread puts it very simply.

"This is basically what you want to do: 
1. Release book 1, 
2. Aggressively attract those readers to your mailing list, so that when you, 
3. Release book 2, 
4. You can notify the people who read book 1 and start off with a small burst of sales.
Lather, rinse, and repeat with books 3, 4, 5, and so on.

That's it. Seriously."

"Your first release probably won't be impressive, but each release will hit a tiny bit higher because of your mailing list, and hitting a tiny bit higher will get you a few more eyeballs and increase the size of your mailing list."

You're on the right track! We'll be looking for your (much happier) thread after book 2 and 3.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Hi. Get your next book written. Here is the thing. I can love your book. I can buy your book. But if you only have one book, the most you can get out of me is 4 dollars. Now if you have more books out there then I can spend more money on you. If you only have one, I will promptly forget you and move on the next great author.
> If you have several and are good, I will save my pennies and buy most if not all of your books.
> You mentioned J Penn, is she trad or self published?
> I wish you all the luck in the world.
> ...


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I am just a reader, so take it as that.  

For me, just knowing its part 1 of a series would keep me from getting it now. There is no indication when the next part will be out. So as a reader, I wouldn't just jump in because of that. I read some of the reviews and many are commenting on how they are looking forward to the next part of the series. They want it. Are you working on it? Is there a tentative release date you can put in the amazon section for readers? Something?   Will it be a long series, a trilogy? Those are the things I look at with books that are not with publishers. 

The book itself looks fantastic by the way.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

KVictoriaChase said:


> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,124433.0.html
> 
> This thread puts it very simply.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this...and I do hope so, too!!! Working hard on book 2 daily!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Atunah said:


> I am just a reader, so take it as that.
> 
> For me, just knowing its part 1 of a series would keep me from getting it now. There is no indication when the next part will be out. So as a reader, I wouldn't just jump in because of that. I read some of the reviews and many are commenting on how they are looking forward to the next part of the series. They want it. Are you working on it? Is there a tentative release date you can put in the amazon section for readers? Something?  Will it be a long series, a trilogy? Those are the things I look at with books that are not with publishers.
> 
> The book itself looks fantastic by the way.


Thanks! This is great information to have, know. I wonder if Amazon will allow me to post and up-coming date for Book two? Yes, I am working on it, daily.


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 29, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> And YES, book one is too long for free...I'd owe money on every sale...as due to the file size, it costs me money on every sale as it is now...(another lesson learned...)


Just curious, why does the file size mean you lose money on each sale? I guess I'm ignorant as to why this should be.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks! This is great information to have, know. I wonder if Amazon will allow me to post and up-coming date for Book two? Yes, I am working on it, daily.


You could always put it at the bottom of your blurb.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

artofstu said:


> Just curious, why does the file size mean you lose money on each sale? I guess I'm ignorant as to why this should be.


Amazon charges a fee to download your file if it is a large file. I currently lose ten cents a book. I have gotten the file as small as I possibly can (trust me). It is just a long story so I am punished! lol Lesson: Don't write EPIC tales to publish in e-book form.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> You could always put it at the bottom of your blurb.


Likely...


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

You can add it to Goodreads, too.


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## Lyoung (Oct 21, 2013)

What everyone said. Your cover is stunning and your blurb is very intriguing, but you'll most likely see a jump in sales once you have more books out.

Also, from a reader's perspective (especially someone who just got a Kindle and is devouring books voraciously right now), I probably would hesitate buying a book from a new author for $3.99. Sorry but 'tis true. It's not about the length, quality, etc. It's about trust. I don't know you, I don't know if your books will hold up well to the end, and I don't know if you'll deliver more. While $3.99 might not seem like a lot of money, when you're downloading books left and right, the costs add up. Last week alone, I spent about $30-40 on ebooks without realizing it until I took a glance at my bank statement.

For brand new authors, I would pay $0.99 to $1.99. No more than that. If I like this author's first book, I'd pay anything (within reason) for his/her other books.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Working hard on book 2 daily!


That matters more than everything else. 

The "_Aggressively attract those readers to your mailing list_" part in the quotation above matters a lot, too; that's something you need to be doing _now_. 

(As ever, I don't agree with most of the comments above about pricing. I have only one self-published book, and it sells well at a much higher price than anything mentioned in this thread. Trade publishers don't very often price new authors' first books at $0.99/$1.99 on Kindle, do they?  ).


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 29, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Amazon charges a fee to download your file if it is a large file. I currently lose ten cents a book. I have gotten the file as small as I possibly can (trust me). It is just a long story so I am punished! lol Lesson: Don't write EPIC tales to publish in e-book form.


Ten cents doesn't sound like a lot to me. But if you tried to publish traditionally, no one would publish your book because it's too long for a first book. So, maybe SP was really your only real option. But no author ever became successful off of one book. Do you think Stephen King would be rich if he'd only written Carrie? Well, maybe moderately but not like he is today. And George RR Martin is making a killing off of SOIAF, now. But look at when GoT was first published. It was years ago. Write more good books. Don't spend so much on your production costs. That cover alone must have cost a pretty penny. It's beautiful.

Anyway, I'm currently working on my first. The rough draft was almost 150,000 words. I think the 2nd draft is going to work out to 110-115K. I'm hoping that I can get the final draft as close to 100k as possible.


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## GaryCecil (Jan 5, 2014)

Lydia Young said:


> What everyone said. Your cover is stunning and your blurb is very intriguing, but you'll most likely see a jump in sales once you have more books out.
> 
> Also, from a reader's perspective (especially someone who just got a Kindle and is devouring books voraciously right now), I probably would hesitate buying a book from a new author for $3.99. Sorry but 'tis true. It's not about the length, quality, etc. It's about trust. I don't know you, I don't know if your books will hold up well to the end, and I don't know if you'll deliver more. While $3.99 might not seem like a lot of money, when you're downloading books left and right, the costs add up. Last week alone, I spent about $30-40 on ebooks without realizing it until I took a glance at my bank statement.
> 
> For brand new authors, I would pay $0.99 to $1.99. No more than that. If I like this author's first book, I'd pay anything (within reason) for his/her other books.


What if she released a REALLY compelling (and free) short story that tied into the book? After you finished (and REALLY liked it), would you feel compelled to take the $3.99 plunge into this new author?


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

There is no reason for you not to be both self- and trad- pubbed. Do both, if you can. One will supplement the other.


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## Lyoung (Oct 21, 2013)

GaryCecil said:


> What if she released a REALLY compelling (and free) short story that tied into the book? After you finished (and REALLY liked it), would you feel compelled to take the $3.99 plunge into this new author?


YES. 

As I noted, it's about trust. If I can read something free (even if it's short), and I can see that the write can deliver a beginning, middle, and end (and characterization, creativity, world-building, etc.) with consistent quality, then I'd be willing to buy that one full-length book for $3.99 or more.

For me, it's not about the waiting. I don't care if I have to wait months for the second book to come out - I'm patient and have a lot of other books to occupy me as I wait. That doesn't deter me from buying a book. It's about finding the authors I love, reading wonderful books that take me somewhere great, and knowing that I can trust this author to always provide a world I can escape into.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> Amazon charges a fee to download your file if it is a large file. I currently lose ten cents a book. I have gotten the file as small as I possibly can (trust me). It is just a long story so I am punished! lol Lesson: Don't write EPIC tales to publish in e-book form.


At 400+ pages, you could always bump up the price to $4.99 to compensate. Now would be the time to test it. i.e. when you have slow sales you really have nothing to lose by experimenting.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Your expectations of what one book will do (without major publicity) is out of whack.
> 
> One book rarely just takes off. You have to write more. Hugh Howey had seven out before WOOL, all getting great reviews and not many sales. HM Ward had over ten out.... and the list goes on and on.
> I'm working on my seventh release, just released number six on April 29th...
> ...


My business/career success has come overnight. 18-years overnight... You get the point. Keep at it.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

artofstu said:


> Ten cents doesn't sound like a lot to me. But if you tried to publish traditionally, no one would publish your book because it's too long for a first book. So, maybe SP was really your only real option. But no author ever became successful off of one book. Do you think Stephen King would be rich if he'd only written Carrie? Well, maybe moderately but not like he is today. And George RR Martin is making a killing off of SOIAF, now. But look at when GoT was first published. It was years ago. Write more good books. Don't spend so much on your production costs. That cover alone must have cost a pretty penny. It's beautiful.
> 
> Anyway, I'm currently working on my first. The rough draft was almost 150,000 words. I think the 2nd draft is going to work out to 110-115K. I'm hoping that I can get the final draft as close to 100k as possible.


Do make that effort to keep your book around 100K as ten cents doesn't sound like much, until you realize your are getting $2.70 and change a book less the file charge which at one point for my book (before I shrunk it) was 88 cents. Now at ten cents a loss it's not so bad, but if it is under the limit, there is no charge, so keep that in mind. Every penny counts when you are starting out, and you are right, I spent too much to produce book one...young stupid got scammed some too, but in the end the cover artist that I ended up with was worth every penny (had I not been scammed so bad by another first...sigh).


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

zoe tate said:


> That matters more than everything else.
> 
> The "_Aggressively attract those readers to your mailing list_" part in the quotation above matters a lot, too; that's something you need to be doing _now_.
> 
> ...


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Lydia Young said:


> What everyone said. Your cover is stunning and your blurb is very intriguing, but you'll most likely see a jump in sales once you have more books out.
> 
> Also, from a reader's perspective (especially someone who just got a Kindle and is devouring books voraciously right now), I probably would hesitate buying a book from a new author for $3.99. Sorry but 'tis true. It's not about the length, quality, etc. It's about trust. I don't know you, I don't know if your books will hold up well to the end, and I don't know if you'll deliver more. While $3.99 might not seem like a lot of money, when you're downloading books left and right, the costs add up. Last week alone, I spent about $30-40 on ebooks without realizing it until I took a glance at my bank statement.
> 
> For brand new authors, I would pay $0.99 to $1.99. No more than that. If I like this author's first book, I'd pay anything (within reason) for his/her other books.


THIS. In a nutshell. Even those 99 cent books add up in a hurry.


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## FH (Jul 30, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> I think the point is being missed here. I am not expecting to be a break out success. I may not have written that one book in a million, but I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...
> I guess I'm just tired of all the hype about selling 100's of books a day if you tick all the boxes mentioned above...I think things have changed drastically...and no one is adjusting the stories...


I'm confused why people will adjust their stories, because they are just that - THEIR stories, if you are reading about how well Lewis Hamilton is doing as a F1 driver and wondering why you are still working as a taxi driver then that isn't any reason for Lewis to change his story!!!

You caught the reality of this in your own post HYPE. That is all it is. People who read Konrath's posts should realise his end result is a many years long journey from trad publishing to the early days of SP to today. He had a strong prevailing wind - he caught every lucky break in SP because he was an early adopter and had little competition. Most people who go into the market first and survive get the best benefits, the people last in usually do the worst.

But here is the thing that a lot of people don't realise. Despite the hype every book DOES have a shelf life and every writer DOES have a shelf life. Writers, Books and genres all fall in and out of fashion. Some books that are really great books stand the test of time, but fall in and out of fashion. Think about Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, they recently remade the movie so it has had a huge resurgence from a generation that never read the original, but in between its first success and its current success were long periods in the doldrums.

Lee Child is having a great run with Jack Reacher, but now at something like book 18 if you read his reviews the tide is starting to turn, people are complaining the books aren't as good and saying they will stop reading them. Eventually every franchise just runs out of steam and then readers look for a fresh voice, fresh storyline and new worlds. There are always opportunities for new writers to find new audiences.

The frustrations you feel with SP are EXACTLY the same frustrations you would have with TP, because they are universal to writing. Unless you have something a big NYC editor thought was bottled lightning and started a 7 figure bidding war that resulted in a huge hype bubble your first book is unlikely to even earn out its advance. It's like opening a shop that only sells one product. Nobody is going to shop in there apart from the odd curious person.

But looking at what gives you the best chances of success:

Franchises sell. Look at all the major bestsellers and they almost universally make their biggest hits on franchises, From Alex Cross to Jack Reacher, James Bond to Jack Ryan. Behind pretty much every major bestseller is a long running franchise. Getting readers to 'glue' into your books and build traction means you need the snowball effect. X readers buy book 1, enjoy the character and storyline, the next franchise book extends that enjoyments and picks up more readers plus the originals. If you are doing standalones there is a huge chance people will pass on the second book if they didn't like the idea as much as the first. It's formulaic rinse and repeat and the reason why hollywood sticks to bankable serials. Writers complain that they don't want to have to bash out paint by numbers series books, if that is the case then you are better off sticking to Lit Fiction but adjusting your expectations that getting a standalone breakaway hit is lottery number statistics.

Pick a highly commercial genre. if you over-niche then you have a inbuilt audience cap. Take a look at the bookbub subscriber numbers, that gives you a rough indication of the percentage differences between genres. If you are in a niche that supports 10,000 readers and has 1,000 authors it doesn't matter if you are the biggest seller in your category you've capped your success to around 10K sales per book. Now if you are in crime, you have more competition but you probably have a readership into the millions. Highly trafficked categories are the ones that go from 10 sales a day, to 100 to 1000. Small niches are only going to be a book here, a book there because there simply isn't the audience scale to ensure your book gets hit with enough eyeballs to convert into regular sales.

Once you are in a big genre find a smaller niche in that genre. Take a look at crime & thrillers. In that you can have political, assassination, terrorism - you can write a book in one of those niches that will allow you to hit a bestseller list quicker but then will have appeal to the broader category.

Have a loss leader. Writing a novella that opens your franchise and get it permafree. a 15-30K novella that sets the scene for your franchise is the best way to get the early traction you need and keep you visible. Novella's are a great loss leader, nobody is going to commit to a new writer on a 150K book. a 1 hour read that is free removes as many of the barriers of entry to trying you out as you can, one of the biggest things you are now fighting for is not on price but simply readers time. Why should they invest time in you and not another author? it takes a lot of effort for a reader to try out a new author, it's like buying new shoes, you might have to try on 10 pairs until you find some that don't hurt your head. Generally speaking it takes a while for readers brains to adjust to a new writers style and storytelling, that is why they like series books. Once they have invested the effort in getting into your style you keep their reading satisfied so they don't have to constantly dig around to find authors they enjoy. Produce a novella with a strong story, compelling main character and give it a good ending so they are well satisfied with the time they invest in it. The advantage of permafree novellas is being shorter they are actually more likely to read it than simply hoard it, and if they hit a rough spot they are more likely to preserve than just exit and abandon. The more people who actually read your permafree the more reviews you get, the better visibility you get - even if you get 50 readers out of a 1000 hoarders then you are well on your way.

Set realistic targets. Your first target is your '1000 true fans' - don't shoot for the stars and expect to be the next HM Ward or Hugh overnight. Getting 1000 readers to commit to your books is the first holy grail challenge, that puts you ahead of probably 99 percent of the game. Those 1000 sales are enough to get you well ranked on every release to help with your discovery. As Hugh says you earn those first 1000 one reader at a time - even if you have to hand sell every book to them. When people subscribe to your newsletter send them a personal email thanking them. when they comment on your Facebook reply to them personally. engage with people on twitter not to sell them books but to get them to bond with you, tell them about your funny anecdotes, your cat pictures - whatever that turns you from another stranger into someone they feel is a friend that they have an attachment to. That way you turn casual purchasers into strong marketeers - the biggest success businesses have is when they build a sense of community around their product, your customers are ALWAYS your best marketeers. Having each of your first 1000 telling 10 friends how great you are is much more valuable than any paid ad campaign because it has been proven people buy books firstly from authors they like, and second from friends recommendations - advertising doesn't even get a mention.

Once you have achieved your first 1,000 your next goal is 10,000 readers. That is enough to effectively make a living from 2 full length novels and about 6 novellas if you sell at a reasonable price. Even at 5.99 a novel that is about 4 USD a book x 10,000 sales x 2 books - 80,000 USD a year - throw in 10-15K of novellas and you have a respectable midlist income from 10,000 readers, even if this is the biggest readership you achieve then you have succeeded as a commercial paid writer.

Focus on curating a QUALITY readership rather than QUANTITY readership. Everyone chases big six numbers, 100K readers - 1M readers - but Bob Mayer made a good point recently in his blog. there are two sides to this - the author who has 1 Million readers at 99c and makes around 300K and the author who has 100K readers at 5.99 and makes 400K. One has a much bigger potential to grow the income the other is probably maxed out.

Promo's are great to attract big numbers - there is a large horde of bargain bin people but they are what the banking industry call 'rate tarts' - people who will just read anything as long as it is cheap, they don't have any loyalty to a specific author. They simply want cheaper entertainment. If you want a sustainable career that doesn't involve spending 85 percent of your gross income on constant marketing you want to focus on curating your readership and winning the readers who are most committed to your books, value your work and prepared to pay a reasonable market price for them. It will be a much lower number but as Bob Mayer points out it is a much more PROFITABLE number.

Lastly I would say marketing is 10 percent of your job as a new writer. You need the twitter, Facebook, blog and newsletter to allow those 1K and hopefully 10K true fans to engage with you but you won't WIN those readers with ANY of those things. You will win your best readership through their own natural discovery, they will browse the genres they like, they will choose your book on merit and they will read it and if they enjoy it they will engage with you. you cannot hard sell culture - people may consume it if it is cheap enough but people generally only become fans of things that they choose and are not sold to them. this is why marketing has such low - like 0.004 percent success rate of calls to action. The best way to build your audience is with your product - your books. That is how your true fans will discover with you and give them reason to want to engage with you, and you have to read the details of the success behind the big names - most of them have been writing for 10-15-20 or more years. they built their success from a starting zero audience with a 5K advance through every stage over years not days or weeks and through 15-20 books not just one, produce books regularly like clockwork, deliver stories that compel people to want to read them, appeal to the biggest market possible, and focus on curating and keeping loyal fans - these are the best DNA ingredients you have for success.

I can't recommend permafree as a first step enough - it can be tough to give your work away but here is the way to look at it - don't think badly of people who download your book and don't review you, read the book or buy anything. Every download buys you a piece of the most valuable real estate in the book business - Amazon visibility. if the thousands of hoarders push you to the tops of the pop lists and help you find those 10,100,1000 readers who do want to pay for your work then you have had the cheapest marketing campaign possible to achieve the end result. The second advantage is even though those books aren't earning you money they are doing a lot of marketing for you while you write, and the great morale boost of seeing download numbers, however small tick in every day makes you feel you aren't whistling in a hurricane.

Lastly, even if you do all the above, be surprised by success and not upset by failure. The book business is easily up there with trying to be a music artist or hollywood A list actor in the difficulty of reaching even the top 4-5 percent. It doesn't make any difference the channel to market, books succeed or fail on the whim of the market. Some people get very lucky and get bottled lightning - they are the Lee Childs. But there is plenty of room for midlisters who have their own loyal audience, unfortunately there is also a sea of writers for whatever reason that will simply sink into obscurity - there is no real way to know until you test the market. You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink, all you can do is increase your chances of success based on the repeatable factors that went into the previous successes but it is no assurance you will do as well. Books are like the stock market, their value can go up and down.

And 100 percent stop even reading all the hype success stories. People who try and copy other peoples success invariably fail - the one thing every one of those success stories has in common is they pioneered their own route to success. They each found their own 'bottled lightning' from harry potter, to Jack Reacher. HM Ward's never ending romance serials - Hugh's oddball zombies - you have to find something unique to your work that will appeal to a lot of people that helps you rise above the herd - it still has to have massive audience appeal but it has to also have some unique X factor that makes people sit up and take note. Don't look at other peoples journeys and say I have done all that why isn't it working for me, figure out the steps you need to take that are unique to you that will help your journey reach its goals.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

GaryCecil said:


> What if she released a REALLY compelling (and free) short story that tied into the book? After you finished (and REALLY liked it), would you feel compelled to take the $3.99 plunge into this new author?


AGREED!!! I'm on it...thank you...dreaming up story lines as we speak!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

BookJoker is 100% right.  I found nearly every self pubbed author I support through their freebies.  But I want to add a caveat to that one.  Do not do a freebie today and expect instant sales tomorrow.  It might be a month or more before we get around to your book.  Most people that pick up freebies get them in batches.  
Thing is though if we like your book, we will be looking for more.
Konrath and company are good examples of where my book money went.  I liked what I read so I got more.  That leads back to the more books = more sales too.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

[
You caught the reality of this in your own post HYPE. That is all it is. People who read Konrath's posts should realise his end result is a many years long journey from trad publishing to the early days of SP to today. He had a strong prevailing wind - he caught every lucky break in SP because he was an early adopter and had little competition. Most people who go into the market first and survive get the best benefits, the people last in usually do the worst.

[/quote]

THANK YOU for this post. I am a very logical minded person, normally, and THIS is what I was looking for. Goals, information on reasonable goals, what they mean and how to go about shooting for them. Thank you so much for taking this time to share with me. 1000 followers. 1000 followers. I will go now and begin...


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Your expectations of what one book will do (without major publicity) is out of whack.
> 
> One book rarely just takes off. You have to write more. Hugh Howey had seven out before WOOL, all getting great reviews and not many sales. HM Ward had over ten out.... and the list goes on and on.
> I'm working on my seventh release, just released number six on April 29th...
> ...


This. Has it EVER happened that the first book took off? Yes, a few times. They were very much exceptions that proved that it takes several and at least a year or two of work.

It isn't that you've done anything wrong. I do question depending on one blogger for information (who is J Penn anyway?). But your expectations are pretty unrealistic maybe from listening to the wrong person/people.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> You are all correct. I just need to get of social media, put my head down and write like the wind. I need to just stop waffling and believe in myself and my decisions I guess. So hard when my agent keeps asking if I have anything new for him to pedal...and tempting me into the fold where, if successful (sale I mean) access to exposure feel sooooo much easier...


Write something new for him to sale. You can have feet in both pools.

YA is tough to sell in ebook, I've found... and steampunk even less so. I know that too. Write the next book in your series. And the next. THEN hit promo hard.


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

I often feel that these boards and the blogs of successful selfpublishers can often give a false impression about how hard it is to be successful at this. They are telling you what's possible. They don't tell you how likely it is. (Sometimes those who are successful out the gate, don't realize how hard it is for others.)

People stick around when they are doing well. Those who report their results/achievements are likely those who are doing fantastically. Those not doing so well are probably quieter, maybe lurkers. So when you see all the good results and successful authors around you here, it seems like everyone is raking in the dollars, when in fact very few are (out of the pool of the hundreds of thousands of people who selfpublish).

Russell Blake is great to give a dose of reality, telling how hard it is to make a success of this unless you are one of the lucky ones who produces a book that just sells itself. Russell writes great books, writes in a popular genre, is very savvy about marketing/covers, always gets pro editing and covers, and it still took him 6 books before he started selling in any kind of numbers. He's now doing fantastically well, but it took him a lot a work. There was nothing wrong with those first 6 books, they are now selling gangbusters, but it took that many books before he gained momentum. It's now even harder to break out than it was a few years ago when Russell started out, and YA isn't as popular a genre as the thriller.

As others have said, your disillusionment springs from the false sense of expectation. Luckily there seems to be a multiplier effect, having 2 good books out means much more than twice the chance of success. Still no guarantees.

I've a few books out (plenty of good reviews), but unless I pay for advertising (which rarely pays for itself) I'd be lucky to sell a few books a month. I get pro-editing and covers, but haven't come close to breaking even yet. I'm still writing away, following all the advice (except for producing bucketloads of books a year, can't write that fast), with my hopes high and my expectations low.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

Lots of wise thoughts/good advice on this thread (even if some of it is painful to hear). I'm writing mainly in YA/adult crossover in a particular area (humour) for which it can be very hard to find an audience easily or quickly. As someone who has had a number of trad-pubbed titles published (under another name) I would not see the traditional route as any easier. I wouldn't rule out a twin-track approach but would you really want to go back to contracts where you lose 90% of the retail price of a book, as opposed to gaining 35-70%? Just think of how many more dead-tree books you'd have to sell for every ebook to make the same return. Plus, most of the points raised on the thread apply however you write- it's basically about 'hooks in the water'. If you want to catch a fish and if you believe in your 'bait', maximise your chances with more rods in more places. Sooner or later, something will bite. In the meantime, make sure you're enjoying the scenery, pack a raincoat & don't stretch metaphors too far.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

David J Normoyle said:


> Russell Blake is great to give a dose of reality, telling how hard it is to make a success of this unless you are one of the lucky ones who produces a book that just sells itself. Russell writes great books, writes in a popular genre, is very savvy about marketing/covers, always gets pro editing and covers, and it still took him 6 books before he started selling in any kind of numbers. He's now doing fantastically well, but it took him a lot a work. There was nothing wrong with those first 6 books, they are now selling gangbusters, but it took that many books before he gained momentum. It's now even harder to break out than it was a few years ago when Russell started out, and YA isn't as popular a genre as the thriller.
> 
> As others have said, your disillusionment springs from the false sense of expectation. Luckily there seems to be a multiplier effect, having 2 good books out means much more than twice the chance of success. Still no guarantees.


His last 3 blogs are wonderful and fantastic. I highly recommend them. They are on author myths.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> Try sacrificing a goat, and then writing another book.


Please don't sacrifice a goat. My Zulu neighbours did that and the terrified noise it made sounded like a human being slaughtered 

However, I would endorse writing another book. Also, there's nothing to stop you selling your e-book while waiting for agents and publishers to make up their minds (which they don't seem to do in much of a hurry .)


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## DavidMacinnisGill (Mar 4, 2011)

The only useful thing I can add to the conversation is that straight scifi for the YA market is death. I can speak to that personally. 

Click on Black Hole Sun in my sig line. Huge publisher, starred reviews, and a blurb from a pretty well-known author on the jacket. By all rights, it should have sold like crazy. It's done ok, but it never was able to break out of the double niche markets of YA and scifi. The audience is tiny, and it hasn't embraced ebooks to the level that other genres have.


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## Michelle Maibelle (Oct 24, 2013)

Like others have said, you need to put more books out. The self-publishing style kind of relies on frequent output. Give it a year or two and put out some more books in a similar fashion, and I'm sure you'll be doing well. Try not to burn yourself out, though.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Ok...hold up...WHY does everyone keep assuming I want to be an overnight success...I didn't write those words, they are not mine, you are quoting other's responses. What I want is to be able to pay back the debt I went into to publish this book...to get steady sales going...to make a pittance more, maybe, so I can afford the production costs of cover two, and take my super supportive (paying all the bills) husband out to dinner at the end of the year. If more comes to pass, WHAHOOO! seriously... I've adjusted my thinking down from my original dream of selling 3K books this year WHICH I don't even think was that crazy...so, please don't assume this is me wanting to be H.M.Ward or others over night...it is NOT...it's me wanted to get something going that might lead to me contributing to the bills again one day. 

As well, I have been at this for years, for the record, 25 years in fact. And with an agent for 5, working hard, taking courses, attending conferences...learning to write, properly from professionals...paying an editor large sums of money to learn story development, waiting for my ship to come in just like everyone else...

Just an aside. I do have a portion of the book up free on Wattpad, and I intend to put more...to build trust with readers, as you say...but at the present I am with KDP select and locked in, so sadly, I cannot reveal more than 10%.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

As a steampunk author myself...
Steampunk is a commercially dud genera.  You're not going to see 5-10 sales a day.  That's just the cold hard truth.  The number one steampunk book is only rated 2700+ overall.  Your book when I checked was number 48 in steampunk with almost a quarter million other books selling better.  Mine are even worse and it has nothing to do with your cover, blurb, or writing.  It's the genera.

I will continue to write steampunk time-travel fantasy because that is what I like.  But there isn't anything short of lightning in a bottle that will see them to the top and the commercial success you are looking for.  And yes, I have been to the top after good promotions, I have had sell-out book signings at Barnes and Nobles.  These are just fleeting moments in the lifetime of a book.  But stable and consistent sales that will pay for your retirement?  That's a steampunk myth.

Everyone's advice above this post is spot on.  Write another book, cultivate a mailing list, and spend advertising dollars wisely.  But I think you need to reset your expectations.  Steampunk is like trying to sell a Christmas book in June.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Did I read you right?  You have been writing 25 years yet you only have 1 book?  It sounds like you have just been spending money on classes that you may or may not need.  And an agent for 5 years.  This is all making very little sense to me.  Or do you have other stuff under other pen names?
I noticed you also go by one blogger's advice.  Other than blogging what does she write?  How are her sales?  
KDP Select is only for 90 days at a time if I remember right.  
Good luck.

I have been learning about the industry myself.  If I can ever figure out what genre I want to write in I will put fingers to keyboard.


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## FH (Jul 30, 2012)

I didn't read your post as you wanting to be an overnight success, rather frustration at despite doing XYZ why you aren't getting traction.

SB makes a good point - whenever you pick a genre go to the bestseller list over a number of days or weeks and see what the number 1 book in that genre is in overall highest rank. Then cross reference that with the average numbers for that rank - if that is the 'cap' of the bestseller then you are going to have to climb a mountain to have a break out hit. if your niche cap is 2700 and that is say a maximum of 4 sales a day then it's really really tough to get a book that will then do more.

if you go to another category and that has a top ten book, then it is much easier to hit the numbers you are trying to achieve. The first thing I always do is this:

Look at the sub niche best-seller list - is the number 1 in say thriller - terrorism enough to get into the top 100 of the parent thriller list.
Look at the pop list for the thriller/sub niche list AND the bestseller list. is being top or in the top 5 enough to get into the top 100 overall in kindle store.

If the answer is yes then you have a bestseller ladder to climb.

You get into the top 100 for your niche - that gives you a visibility boost that drives your downloads, if you hit Number 1 in niche that pops you onto the parent category bestseller list. The downloads from that if you get in the top spot or top 5 will help drive you into the top 100 overall.

If you don't have that ladder - i.e there isn't enough passing traffic in your niche to push you onto the parent list, and then enough traffic in that genre to push you onto the overall top 100-500 list then you are working against market forces.

For fun a few months a go i put out a romance book under a random pen name just to see what would happen. In my own previous niche I would get maybe 30 sales max a month since it wasn't a big category. my daft romance book got 10 downloads on its first day and 50 in a month at 3.99, it didn't break any sort of sales records or get any decent rankings really but there is so much traffic in that category then there is enough drive by traffic to generate sales that would trump most niche categories.

I always say this, you write the books the market wants to funds the books you want to write. I don't especially enjoy writing in my own genre but I identified a clear ladder above that helps me get traction so it is the easiest path to take since i'm sailing into a prevailing wind.


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## LKWatts (May 5, 2011)

Quiss said:


> It's digital. Not going anywhere. Just because it's not selling by the barrel now doesn't mean it won't in the future. It's an investment.


Very, very good point. I think we all need to remember this. Joe Konrath says the same thing  And it gives us hope that one day our hard work will pay off.


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## grheliz (Oct 29, 2013)

Thank you so much to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have found it very reassuring and illuminating.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I had four books in a series out. They were selling very well indeed. I put out the first in a new series. It sold half of the others, had disappointing sales until I put out the second. Then they both took off.

I had reasonable success out of the gate, but (a) I write Contemporary Romance, and (b) I put out three books in a series at once. Barring something truly extraordinary, and probably writing angsty NA romance (the hottest thing right now), I think it is the elusive Spectacled Barred Cockatoo that achieves even modest success with a single book. You have to put out more books in the series, and then promote the heck out of that first one. That'll give you a much better shot. 

I don't write blazingly fast. I'll have my ninth book out next month in about 21 months total in publishing. But that's fast enough to gain a following and keep some traction. At one book a year or one book every six months, it's going to be a harder slog.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Did I read you right? You have been writing 25 years yet you only have 1 book? It sounds like you have just been spending money on classes that you may or may not need. And an agent for 5 years. This is all making very little sense to me. Or do you have other stuff under other pen names?
> I noticed you also go by one blogger's advice. Other than blogging what does she write? How are her sales?
> KDP Select is only for 90 days at a time if I remember right.
> Good luck.
> ...


I've been writing (mostly) for 21 years, and don't have a single book out. I think it's quite understandable.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Try sacrificing a goat, and then writing another book.


goats aren't working. I bought a 12-pack of goats and my sales ain't moving!


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## Griffin Hayes (Sep 20, 2011)

SP is a very finicky beast. Many books that sold like gangbusters months ago, are sitting dead in the water now. The first rule of SP Club is there are no rules. I spent years following the conventional SP wisdom at the time and it got me nowhere. But I kept writing and without expectation. Now with the release of my 6th book in March I'm having more success than ever before. 

Will it last months or years? Probably not. Which is why I'm busy at work on my next two books. I also have work under different pen names which is fun. So give yourself 3-5 years. Slowly build your backlist. Get yourself a mailing list right away. And before long you'll be surprised how well you're doing. 

Now, as with anything, if after a handful of books you still aren't getting any traction, consider changing genres and try something fresh. Flexibility and adaptability are key.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

BookJoker said:


> I didn't read your post as you wanting to be an overnight success, rather frustration at despite doing XYZ why you aren't getting traction.
> 
> SB makes a good point - whenever you pick a genre go to the bestseller list over a number of days or weeks and see what the number 1 book in that genre is in overall highest rank. Then cross reference that with the average numbers for that rank - if that is the 'cap' of the bestseller then you are going to have to climb a mountain to have a break out hit. if your niche cap is 2700 and that is say a maximum of 4 sales a day then it's really really tough to get a book that will then do more.
> 
> ...


I find categories SO hard to understand. I will have to take this post of yours and try to digest a while. Thank you.
also, re: Romance. I've thought of that...but again...there are so many sub categories...one wonders where to place ones work...BUT I do think it is worth the fun.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

It actually sounds like you're off to a great start. You usually need more than one book, though, to find a large audience. But, even then, the size of your audience will depend upon whether or not your books are a popular type at the time that you publish. This affects writers published by traditional publishing houses as well, by the way, except that it takes two years to get published and hot topics frequently change within two years, and writers are often dropped by the big publishing houses if they don't sell enough copies. Writing and selling books is a tough business, no matter what approach you take.


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

KL_Phelps said:


> goats aren't working. I bought a 12-pack of goats and my sales ain't moving!


It's due to the sacrificing-goat inflation. Back in the good old days, one goat worked a treat. Nowadays, you can be knee deep in goat blood, carcasses everywhere, and the writing gods will barely bat an eyelid.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> What I want is to be able to pay back the debt I went into to publish this book...to get steady sales going...to make a pittance more, maybe, so I can afford the production costs of cover two, and take my super supportive (paying all the bills) husband out to dinner at the end of the year. If more comes to pass, WHAHOOO! seriously... I've adjusted my thinking down from my original dream of selling 3K books this year WHICH I don't even think was that crazy..


It's not that we think you want to go gangbusters. It's that a lot of selfpub authors who invest $2,000 in their first book aren't able to earn it back right away. Sure, there are Indie rockstars that start OFF selling megabucks but for every one person who does that, there's 4 rockstars who worked their asses off and published book after book (i.e. Russell, HM, RJC, SMR) and THEN was able to put money back into their operation.

It's all about trust from readers and it's quite hard to get that 2K in 3 months if you don't have a fanbase that's going to go out and buy that book immediately. I didn't immediately go into the black with my books until the third.


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## Hudson Owen (May 18, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Ok...hold up...WHY does everyone keep assuming I want to be an overnight success...I didn't write those words, they are not mine, you are quoting other's responses. What I want is to be able to pay back the debt I went into to publish this book...to get steady sales going...to make a pittance more, maybe, so I can afford the production costs of cover two, and take my super supportive (paying all the bills) husband out to dinner at the end of the year. If more comes to pass, WHAHOOO! seriously... I've adjusted my thinking down from my original dream of selling 3K books this year WHICH I don't even think was that crazy...so, please don't assume this is me wanting to be H.M.Ward or others over night...it is NOT...it's me wanted to get something going that might lead to me contributing to the bills again one day.
> 
> As well, I have been at this for years, for the record, 25 years in fact. And with an agent for 5, working hard, taking courses, attending conferences...learning to write, properly from professionals...paying an editor large sums of money to learn story development, waiting for my ship to come in just like everyone else...
> 
> Just an aside. I do have a portion of the book up free on Wattpad, and I intend to put more...to build trust with readers, as you say...but at the present I am with KDP select and locked in, so sadly, I cannot reveal more than 10%.


I don't think you're at a real crises point in your career. I think you getting jammed with so much lecture/advice about the long, difficult struggle of the long distance writer--might I say, the joyless life of the scribe churning away on her treadmill desk like a hamster headed for early burnout or a heart attack, or some such, grinding out words on an industrial scale.

You achieved something with your years of preparation and solid first book. Clearly, with the series in mind, you can see your way through books 2 and maybe 3. And that, really, is as far as you need to go right now. If you have a good agent of 5 years ongoing, you have a valuable resource. You may be able to put together a hybrid deal with some of the advantages of traditional publishing and some of the flexibility of self-publication. I'm guessing you want some of the trad world, that you don't want the life of a hamster--even a successful one--and that, going forward you will look for ways to maximize quality while giving up some quantity.

You have a present and future in writing and publishing. You should feel good about that.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> I've been writing (mostly) for 21 years, and don't have a single book out. I think it's quite understandable.


Ok...to clarify. 25 years back there was no Amazon. I sold stories to magazines, and periodicals, I even wrote an episode of an old children's show...AND I submitted books to publishers Picture Books at that time. Then I got divorced. Enough said. Black Hole of NO Writing that last ten long years. Then I picked up again, sporadically, submitting, publishing the odd article, story. THEN 7 years back took things very seriously, did the conference tour, studied under some greats, paid a story guru...spend a lot of money to learn the craft correctly...got an agent...been submitting through the agent for 5 years, of near-misses...and NOW have self pubbed.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

KL_Phelps said:


> goats aren't working. I bought a 12-pack of goats and my sales ain't moving!


I LOVE THIS...though goats were never on the table...just for the record.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

SBJones said:


> As a steampunk author myself...
> Steampunk is a commercially dud genera. You're not going to see 5-10 sales a day. That's just the cold hard truth.


Understand that this is not a hard and fast rule. Check out Lindsay Buroker's work. She's majority steampunk and doing gangbusters in it.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> I've been writing (mostly) for 21 years, and don't have a single book out. I think it's quite understandable.


Now we both know that writing about sacrificial goats is not gonna sell well. Hmmm maybe you gave me an idea. Sacrificial tenacle goats.


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

I've read through all the responses in this thread and they are spot on with my experience.

I have a YA/New Adult crossover series BRIGHTEST KIND OF DARKNESS that I've been publishing books for since 2011. Two things happened with my series...it didn't really do too much sales-wise until I had at least two books out and then it did so much better when I put book 1 on perma free. I don't have access to the numbers to show you right now, but the same thing happened with my two adult romance series as well. It's like three books in the series is the magic number for readers. Maybe two books don't convince them you're serious about it being a series, but three books in and you're committed, man!  Seriously though, write the next book, and then the next. In my BKoD series, I also wrote a prequel AFTER I released book two. Right now ALL the books in my series are on sale because I have a Bookbub ad coming up, but even though book 1 has been free for over a year, I didn't put the prequel to FREE until a month ago. The point is...with self pub you have options. Give your readers what they want--the next story--but also feel free to play with price. Normally the other books in my series(beyond book 1 and prequel) are $4.99, so right now they are a great deal. And as far as longer word count goes, my books are long: They are 90K (book 1), 93K (book 2), 130K (book 3) and the latest is 65K because it was an aside story that turned out to be way more than the novella I'd originally planned because it tied back into the main story arc so much, it got the word count. You couldn't PLAY with price like I have if you had traditionally published. Not at all. There are advantages to going the Self Pub route. Don't be afraid to take advantage of them. Instead of feeling like you're in the hole on book one, try to think of the money you've spent as an investment in yourself and write more books, which are an investment in your *series*. Your readers will buy into it if you give them something to look forward to and clamor for. You've proven you've got the chops with book 1, now give them the rest of the story to get excited about reading so they can buy your other books and tell their reader friends. I hope this helps.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> I had four books in a series out. They were selling very well indeed. I put out the first in a new series. It sold half of the others, had disappointing sales until I put out the second. Then they both took off.
> 
> I had reasonable success out of the gate, but (a) I write Contemporary Romance, and (b) I put out three books in a series at once. Barring something truly extraordinary, and probably writing angsty NA romance (the hottest thing right now), I think it is the elusive Spectacled Barred Cockatoo that achieves even modest success with a single book. You have to put out more books in the series, and then promote the heck out of that first one. That'll give you a much better shot.
> 
> I don't write blazingly fast. I'll have my ninth book out next month in about 21 months total in publishing. But that's fast enough to gain a following and keep some traction. At one book a year or one book every six months, it's going to be a harder slog.


Good to know, GREAT actually, especially about your putting out 3 books at once. Makes more sense and is understandable, logically. Writing. Writing. Writing.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wansit said:


> Understand that this is not a hard and fast rule. Check out Lindsay Buroker's work. She's majority steampunk and doing gangbusters in it.


Thanks, and yes, mine is not just Steampunk anyway, it actually offers more in the direction of adventure and romance...but was a marketing decision to use the obvious word.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

DavidMacinnisGill said:


> The only useful thing I can add to the conversation is that straight scifi for the YA market is death. I can speak to that personally.
> 
> Click on Black Hole Sun in my sig line. Huge publisher, starred reviews, and a blurb from a pretty well-known author on the jacket. By all rights, it should have sold like crazy. It's done ok, but it never was able to break out of the double niche markets of YA and scifi. The audience is tiny, and it hasn't embraced ebooks to the level that other genres have.


This is interesting to me. As a voracious reader since middle school all of my reading was sci-fi and fantasy and I just assumed it was a big genre. But come to think of it, it was never young adult. I always read the regular sci-fi and thankfully my parents never checked the content!


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

jackiegp said:


> I LOVE THIS...though goats were never on the table...just for the record.


Good news is you won't have to mow your yard anymore!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

P.T. Michelle said:


> I've read through all the responses in this thread and they are spot on with my experience.
> 
> I have a YA/New Adult crossover series BRIGHTEST KIND OF DARKNESS that I've been publishing books for since 2011. Two things happened with my series...it didn't really do too much sales-wise until I had at least two books out and then it did so much better when I put book 1 on perma free. I don't have access to the numbers to show you right now, but the same thing happened with my two adult romance series as well. It's like three books in the series is the magic number for readers. Maybe two books don't convince them you're serious about it being a series, but three books in and you're committed, man!  Seriously though, write the next book, and then the next. In my BKoD series, I also wrote a prequel AFTER I released book two. Right now ALL the books in my series are on sale because I have a Bookbub ad coming up, but even though book 1 has been free for over a year, I didn't put the prequel to FREE until a month ago. The point is...with self pub you have options. Give your readers what they want--the next story--but also feel free to play with price. Normally the other books in my series(beyond book 1 and prequel) are $4.99, so right now they are a great deal. And as far as longer word count goes, my books are long: They are 90K (book 1), 93K (book 2), 130K (book 3) and the latest is 65K because it was an aside story that turned out to be way more than the novella I'd originally planned because it tied back into the main story arc so much, it got the word count. You couldn't PLAY with price like I have if you had traditionally published. Not at all. There are advantages to going the Self Pub route. Don't be afraid to take advantage of them. Instead of feeling like you're in the hole on book one, try to think of the money you've spent as an investment in yourself and write more books, which are an investment in your *series*. Your readers will buy into it if you give them something to look forward to and clamor for. You've proven you've got the chops with book 1, now give them the rest of the story to get excited about reading so they can buy your other books and tell their reader friends. I hope this helps.


Thanks and YES, it does. I'm hearing it, and I am writing book two as we speak, I think what has me all concerned is, I'm truly in the hole. I'm seriously thinking I'm going to need to run a Kick Starter Campaign to fund book two production, not even enough $ to do the cover...so yeah, it has me marketing minded and feeling like I'm floundering at the moment, and wish the train would pick up speed a bit on the tracks. But thanks, so great to hear others experiences. Thanks for sharing


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## DanaG (Feb 13, 2011)

Allow me to "brag" for a moment (and I'm sorry, I don't put my pen name on here for fear of the inevitable one stars/drive by reviews that seem to happen to people who post about their success on here) - I'm an overnight success! I wrote a book that made the top 100, with no self promotion! First time I'd tried in that genre! I'm one of those people who make other writers jealous, because I had success right out the gate!

And - you know why? Because I'm not really an "overnight" success, I had literally written several dozen other books, under different pen names, before I had my big success. Tried different genres. Tried different story lengths. Tried different cover artists. So, I look like an overnight success, but I've had books that sold like fifty copies, EVER. Books with rank so low, it's like "We'd give you an infinity rating if we could. PLEASE take your book back and go home."

My sales gradually increased over time. I paid attention to what people said in their reviews, both what they praised and what they hated. I kept studying the chart toppers. I tried probably a dozen different sub-genres, before I finally found one that clicked, for me.

Also I write super fast. So part of what keeps me visible is that I can publish a new full length book every month or two.

So, my point is - you've gotten wonderful early reviews, and the TRUE overnight successes are few and far between. Keep writing.

You want to know what my genre is? Oh, all right. Sacrificial goats. KL Phelps, I don't know what _you'r_e doing wrong.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks, and yes, mine is not just Steampunk anyway, it actually offers more in the direction of adventure and romance...but was a marketing decision to use the obvious word.


I adore your cover Jackie. Every time I look at it I stare in appreciation. Put out a few more books like yours and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well you'll do. In the meantime, check out the book ranks of first-time authors (trad and self-pub) in your also-boughts. Most of them write similar stuff and you can see that the rankings across the board are the same. It takes brand recognition or an amazing marketing campaign to shoot up from the get-go (if you're not writing something that makes people salivate immediately).


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Chad Winters said:


> This is interesting to me. As a voracious reader since middle school all of my reading was sci-fi and fantasy and I just assumed it was a big genre. But come to think of it, it was never young adult. I always read the regular sci-fi and thankfully my parents never checked the content!


I have a couple words to share. Hunger Games. Divergent. The market is there...it's just...over there >>>> points to trad pub.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

DanaG said:


> Allow me to "brag" for a moment (and I'm sorry, I don't put my pen name on here for fear of the inevitable one stars/drive by reviews that seem to happen to people who post about their success on here) - I'm an overnight success! I wrote a book that made the top 100, with no self promotion! First time I'd tried in that genre! I'm one of those people who make other writers jealous, because I had success right out the gate!
> 
> And - you know why? Because I'm not really an "overnight" success, I had literally written several dozen other books, under different pen names, before I had my big success. Tried different genres. Tried different story lengths. Tried different cover artists. So, I look like an overnight success, but I've had books that sold like fifty copies, EVER. Books with rank so low, it's like "We'd give you an infinity rating if we could. PLEASE take your book back and go home."
> 
> ...


THAT is fast...I can't write that fast. Thanks for the honesty and the sharing. I promise not to 1 star drive by rate you, and NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER! This shit is HARD! Writing is HARD! Respect people, respect. lol


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## Alondo (Aug 30, 2011)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Thanks, and I will concur with what you said, that is quite the awesome cover.
> 
> However, I think the number 1 thing that is going to hold you back right now is that it's book 1 of a series and the only volume out right now. In my case I didn't see an increase in sales until I had 3 books (in my series...5 overall) available - at that point you're kinda telling people you're here to stay and not going to disappear before the series is over.


Ditto for me. I had to have three books of my series out before it started to move.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wansit said:


> I adore your cover Jackie. Every time I look at it I stare in appreciation. Put out a few more books like yours and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well you'll do. In the meantime, check out the book ranks of first-time authors (trad and self-pub) in your also-boughts. Most of them write similar stuff and you can see that the rankings across the board are the same. It takes brand recognition or an amazing marketing campaign to shoot up from the get-go (if you're not writing something that makes people salivate immediately).


Thanks you! Your covers are pretty sweet, too! I am writing away here, but I just don't write all that fast...but I'm trying and loving my characters and the world, so yeah...just need to keep at it. Thanks!


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I don't have time to read through all the responses, but I have skimmed several pages. I agree with what has been said already. Each book will bring more sales. You have a gorgeous cover, and I've seen it all over Pinterest (I follow a lot of book/cover boards) so it's being seen and shared.

People are leery about new authors, and understandably so. Not that it's your fault, but it is what it is. Before I started writing, I found some new indie authors that I fell in love with. I would stalk their author pages, eager for the next release. In one case, the author kept giving excuse after excuse as to why the next book was being pushed back, and back, and back. After that, as a reader, I want to know that an author is going to follow through before I get hooked on a series.

As a writer, I can tell you that each new release is the best thing I can do for all of my previous books. I pick up new followers each time, and also with that time, people tell others. I have some fans who have told everyone they know to read my books. One in particular has made her mom and several friends big fans of my stories.

Check out this interview with Joanna Penn and CJ Lyons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK4QUHFFAoQ


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> I LOVE THIS...though goats were never on the table...just for the record.


Try chickens. They're cheaper, and you can buy them ready-sacrificed in the supermarket AND eat them with a tasty side-order of potatoes and vegetables later.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

jackiegp said:


> I have a couple words to share. Hunger Games. Divergent. The market is there...it's just...over there >>>> points to trad pub.


I'm in my 40's, closest thing I had to that was Heinlein's juveniles. It might be I just don't understand YA vs regular, then again I remember re-reading Lord of the Rings in 7th grade. The first time was sometime in middle school that I only have vague memories of. I guess that is my question on why YA sci-fi seems like a small niche, are most young sci-fi readers reading adult sci-fi like I did?


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I don't have time to read through all the responses, but I have skimmed several pages. I agree with what has been said already. Each book will bring more sales. You have a gorgeous cover, and I've seen it all over Pinterest (I follow a lot of book/cover boards) so it's being seen and shared.
> 
> People are leery about new authors, and understandably so. Not that it's your fault, but it is what it is. Before I started writing, I found some new indie authors that I fell in love with. I would stalk their author pages, eager for the next release. In one case, the author kept giving excuse after excuse as to why the next book was being pushed back, and back, and back. After that, as a reader, I want to know that an author is going to follow through before I get hooked on a series.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm..... good to know re: Pinterest and the cover, and about taking a chance on a new author (writes faster...doesn't specify release date yet). Also, thanks for sharing and for the link. So good to hear everyone's truth stories.  J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Chad Winters said:


> I'm in my 40's, closest thing I had to that was Heinlein's juveniles. It might be I just don't understand YA vs regular, then again I remember re-reading Lord of the Rings in 7th grade. The first time was sometime in middle school that I only have vague memories of. I guess that is my question on why YA sci-fi seems like a small niche, are most young sci-fi readers reading adult sci-fi like I did?


I think lots are...but lost are hooked on series like I mentioned, too, which then Trad pub flooded the market with, and kids are now waining of the entire genre at present, sadly...but it will come back around...always the way..


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

May or may not be relevant, but here's a piece on the power of three.

http://www.businessinsider.com/using-the-power-of-three-to-your-marketing-advantage-2013-5

OP, I think you're doing everything right--or at the very least giving _doing-it-right_ a major effort. I'm not a big seller as far as epubbers go, but my sales are slowly growing--and they started to grow when I finished the third book in my trilogy.

Everyone here is spot on with their advice. Don't get discouraged--and write more books.  And good luck!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

EC Sheedy said:


> May or may not be relevant, but here's a piece on the power of three.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/using-the-power-of-three-to-your-marketing-advantage-2013-5
> 
> ...


Thank you, Thank you very much.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

EC Sheedy said:


> May or may not be relevant, but here's a piece on the power of three.












And so we rise...


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

I do love Celtic imagery, but then I am Irish.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Your covers are beautiful, and your reviews are great. 

Everyone is right, the problem is that your book has fallen out of view on Amazon. There's a few ways to remedy this. The best way is to get the second book out there. Also try BookBub. If you're not in other marketplaces yet, get in them. Your blurb/cover/look inside are fantastic, and getting your book in front of more people on other channels increases your likelihood of it hitting.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

i haven't read every reply here, so it's possible this has already been suggested. you mentioned losing money because of the file size/length. is this anything you could actually break up into 3 or 4 books rather than one?  in that way, you could also satisfy people who read series and want to be sure there are more titles coming.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

valeriec80 said:


> I get disillusioned with the whole business every time I put out a new release. I usually go through a cranky few days where I'm all, "Why is this so hard?" And "Why don't enough people like me?" And "What am I doing wrong?"
> 
> And I've been supporting myself and my boyfriend solely through my writing for two and a half years.
> 
> ...


I lurv you Valerie. That's all.


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## pauldude000 (May 22, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> I think the point is being missed here. I am not expecting to be a break out success. I may not have written that one book in a million, but I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...
> I guess I'm just tired of all the hype about selling 100's of books a day if you tick all the boxes mentioned above...I think things have changed drastically...and no one is adjusting the stories...


I have stated this previously at length, although it was a long time ago. I will reiterate. People will not buy your book, if they cannot find your book. It is hard to get into a top 100 in category, and even harder to stay there once you do. Amazon fiddles with stuff so often that what worked yesterday probably will not work next month.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a one hit wonder, and none of my books have seen 100 a day downloads unless you count free giveaways. However, I have seen 25-35 sales a day on occasion, or a couple hundred sales a month on one title or another. Expecting this continually is unreasonable, really.

Over time, you will start running out of those eager new customers interested in this or that title you have on a 100 list and sales eventually slow. Eventually it falls off of the list entirely. This is because the number of NEW people actually searching for a similar book to what you wrote dropped. Your book therefore slipped even further in sales rank as the number of new sales drastically slowed. After it dropped lower and lower in ranking, it then fell off of the "people also bought" list.

At this point, the only people that can find your book for any reason are those actively searching for it, who are also willing to wade through a hundred pages of search results of other books higher in rank than yours. Even search placement has to do with book ranking, as Amazon is about "pleasing the customer."

To get a book back up in rank, one has to get people to search for it and then purchase. Free days no longer work to bump sales rank, or at least not much. The free days were a useful sales tool at one time, but now they barely effect sales placement after the free time expires. I think Amazon switched from a downloads based placement system to a paid sales based placement ranking system.

This leaves us with advertising to spark a new reader base, putting your book in sight of prospective buyers... which, as you already found out, is in most obvious cases somewhat worthless. Another is a serious, but temporary price slash to increase the sales ranking, and then revert to normal price when the book is back on the proverbial radar.


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> ...it's me wanted to get something going that might lead to me contributing to the bills again one day.


I know how you feel. The day my car died and my husband had enough from all the royalties piled up to get another (used, off Craigslist) car for me to commute to work was the day he managed to shake off a long-lingering depression.

You'll get there. It might not be the first book, or the second, but if you keep writing and putting out great stories people want to read, you'll get there!

We have a chunk of hard drive dedicated to all the books that weren't good enough to take to market, and the "overnight" success took five years. (And you definitely have to set your level of success. If I measured against HM Ward, we're still in the "kid on the corner with a lemonade stand vs. a CEO" comparison - but in the "we sold enough last year that it pushed us up a tax bracket from what I make alone", and in the "I was sick and out of work for five weeks, and didn't have to worry about draining the savings account or having enough to pay all the bills" sense, we're really successful.)

Actors and authors are both very piecework professions, and you're unlikely to have any sort of steadiness to your sales. G-d knows I'd love to be able to wake up in the morning and say "we're going to sell 10 of book 1, 8 of book two, and 6 of book 3 today, no matter what happens." However, it's not like that, and trying to force Amazon's ten billion consumers to provide a steady and rational income will only drive you stark raving mad. You're going to have good days. You're going to have bad days. You might sell 25 copies in a day, and then nothing for two weeks. A new release might take off like fire, or it might fall flat on its face.... and then suddenly pick up six months later. All the successful people can tell you is what they did, but not a single one could actually say, "Of the three hundred people who bought this book today, this is the really real list of the 300 reasons they decided to buy it, and this is the really real list of utterly true reasons that the other 6000 who saw it didn't buy it, compiled with a truth serum from those 6300 people themselves in painfully exacting interviews."

So bring out the big guns - bring out another story. And then another. Look up the term "midlist death spiral" (or "ordering to the net"), and you'll see the way bookstores ordered trilogies and series for years has left two generations of readers very, very wary of starting a series unless they know the whole thing's going to be published... and know that once you have three in the same series out, you're likely going to see a "multiplier effect" - otherwise known as readers going "Oh, good, this isn't a trilogy that I'll never find the third part to."


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Jackie, I started skimming in the latter pages of this thread, so forgive me if this has been said: so far as I know, you will not pay the delivery fee on your book if you make it free on Amazon. Maybe there's an exception for longer books, but I'd be surprised if it kicks in at 460 pp. That's just not that long. I certainly don't pay download fees on my free book, which is about 380 pp. If they do charge you, you should be able to remove your cover image from the book file. Very few trad pub books I buy include the cover image. It's a way to save a few cents per sale.

Good luck! You sure do look primed for success to me. Just think in terms of its taking a while to get there.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

Hi, Jackie!! 

Yep, that FB promo we did together? Last one ever for me. Done with that. It's writing that's going to get books moving, and not much else (besides a mailing list).

You're a good writer, your cover is excellent, and it's early, early, EARLY days. This is a long game we play. 

Just how big is your book? My biggest is 150k words and I don't pay a delivery fee. Illustrations?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

KVictoriaChase said:


> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,124433.0.html


The above gets my vote for the single best thread you could read.


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## S. Elliot Brandis (Dec 9, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Try sacrificing a goat, and then writing another book.


This is what I did, and now I'm Hugh Howey.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

S. Elliot Brandis said:


> This is what I did, and now I'm Hugh Howey.


We're not gonna believe that unless the abs match, dude.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Well can I suggest that you change your genre for a little while.
You have nothing to lose at this point, and I really agree with the steampunk isn't as popular as it could be now thing.
I would put your book into Science Fiction/ Fantasy category.
Many books I see there, I would call Steampunk, but I think they realized being in Fantasy was a better idea.
Good luck ....and write a prequel novella for 99cents/ or free.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

A suggestion: with your next book, don't put yourself deeper into the hole, or at least not too much deeper. You have a beautiful first cover. Use it again. Put your girl in a black dress (or red dress, or blue dress, or whatever fits the story best), change the title, and be done. You do have files from the original artist? Yes?

Your cover is a true work of art. I had a cover like that too. And my fans loved it. But it was too expensive to repeat. I came up with a series of covers my fans agree best fit the series (it's Norse Myth meets, sci-fi, meets Hinduism--yes, it's eclectic). Each costs me about $60 in stock art and my time.

Anyway, this is the advice I give to anyone who asks. A cover should clearly identify your book as being part its series. It should be clean and tidy. It should be legible in grayscale and as a thumbnail.

All else is gravy. Check out the covers of Debra Geary: http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Witch-Series-Book-ebook/dp/B004RZ2660

They're very simple, but they meet all the above rules, they aren't your typical paranormal romance, and they sell. Good luck!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> I lurv you Valerie. That's all.


I agree. And I love and appreciate the honesty. <3


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

dgrant said:


> I know how you feel. The day my car died and my husband had enough from all the royalties piled up to get another (used, off Craigslist) car for me to commute to work was the day he managed to shake off a long-lingering depression.
> 
> You'll get there. It might not be the first book, or the second, but if you keep writing and putting out great stories people want to read, you'll get there!
> ...


I LOVE that you shared this... thank you so so much...appreciated! <3


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> Jackie, I started skimming in the latter pages of this thread, so forgive me if this has been said: so far as I know, you will not pay the delivery fee on your book if you make it free on Amazon. Maybe there's an exception for longer books, but I'd be surprised if it kicks in at 460 pp. That's just not that long. I certainly don't pay download fees on my free book, which is about 380 pp. If they do charge you, you should be able to remove your cover image from the book file. Very few trad pub books I buy include the cover image. It's a way to save a few cents per sale.
> 
> Good luck! You sure do look primed for success to me. Just think in terms of its taking a while to get there.


I opted for headers to dress the book up a bit and yeah, they are images thus, the file got fined basically.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

emilycantore said:


> Forget social media. Forget advertising.
> 
> The only things you should be doing are these:
> 
> ...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

MeiLinMiranda said:


> Hi, Jackie!!
> 
> Yep, that FB promo we did together? Last one ever for me. Done with that. It's writing that's going to get books moving, and not much else (besides a mailing list).
> 
> ...


HEY YOU! How are YOU? Yeah, mine is 120ish K I think, but yes, I opted for chapter head decor that counts as Illustrations...so yeah...fined...busted. Though I've re-done the file and taken most of it out...I'm still getting dinged...a bit.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> The above gets my vote for the single best thread you could read.


Well THAT'S a bonus to the day!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

S. Elliot Brandis said:


> This is what I did, and now I'm Hugh Howey.


THIS WINS! For funniest post of the day, after the goat one!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

C. Gockel said:


> A suggestion: with your next book, don't put yourself deeper into the hole, or at least not too much deeper. You have a beautiful first cover. Use it again. Put your girl in a black dress (or red dress, or blue dress, or whatever fits the story best), change the title, and be done. You do have files from the original artist? Yes?
> 
> Your cover is a true work of art. I had a cover like that too. And my fans loved it. But it was too expensive to repeat. I came up with a series of covers my fans agree best fit the series (it's Norse Myth meets, sci-fi, meets Hinduism--yes, it's eclectic). Each costs me about $60 in stock art and my time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement and the contacts!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Charmaine said:


> Well can I suggest that you change your genre for a little while.
> You have nothing to lose at this point, and I really agree with the steampunk isn't as popular as it could be now thing.
> I would put your book into Science Fiction/ Fantasy category.
> Many books I see there, I would call Steampunk, but I think they realized being in Fantasy was a better idea.
> Good luck ....and write a prequel novella for 99cents/ or free.


Thanks...I've started a serial...a contemporary romance one with paranormal twist...but it's only just started, and I've been told the file is the wrong one so I'm scrambling to have it re-done and loaded (so don't anyone look at it...please) and I'm going to bang it out over the next few months while write book two of this series...so maybe that will help...dunno.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Hang in there! In this business, it's all about having a funnel and a loss leader, which is really one and the same. Which means that you have to give away a book, or, at the very least, have it for .99, so that you can attract new readers to the rest of your series. But, since you have only one book, you don't quite have the funnel in place, so it's tough. 

Seriously, I don't think that I would sell even a copy a day if I didn't have a permafree. Permafrees - which must be promoted, btw - give readers a chance to sample you for no money on their part. Then, when it leads into more books that are in that series, that's when the magic happens. That's the only thing that has gotten me off the ground. 

So, I know that you're hard at work on your next book, which is fantabulous. But I would dash out a prequel novella or something that you can write in a couple of weeks, and make it permafree. That will lead people into your book. You may PM me if you have any questions about all of that. 

Other than that, I would have to say that you have a great shot of making it to the top, because you know how to do all those marketing things that many of us don't. I've never done a FB book party. I don't even know how to do that. You have lots of great ways that you are connecting with fans, and it will pay off. You just need a loss leader, and then you can use all that you have learned in marketing to promote the free one, and it will all fall into place.

Just don't forget about the mailing list and updating your back matter and all of that. 

So, yeah, as one poster said a long time ago, and it made me laugh, but it's so true - butt in chair, hands on keyboard. That's the only way that you can take off.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> SEE these are the kinds of comments I mean...what does that mean, exactly...(not to pry, and thank you for your note...but) what does "replace my day job income," mean...10-20-30-50-100 books a day? Ball park? So I understand. And have a goal to set that is reasonable? I lost my job over a health issues 7 years back, so writing is now it for me (not that I don't love that idea...but), so it would be nice to replace even some of my former income....I'd love a goal to set that was reasonable...so I could feel as though I was contributing to the family again


Yesterday, up to 9:00 pm EDT (when I record sales), book 1 sold 6, book 2 sold 16, book three sold 25, and all three combined had 2 overseas sales and 10 borrows. That was a $157.30 day, down slightly from the previous few days. In fact, yesterday was the first day below $200 in sales in almost two weeks. I need $140 a day to replace my day job income, or $165 a day to replace it comfortably, and be able to cover taxes and advertising/editing costs.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm disillusioned constantly. I always am questioning if should write, if anyone cares if I write, if I even have any talent to write. I constantly am convinced my best work is behind me, and that it wasn't even all that good. 

The only real reason that I keep going is because I'm pretty much not qualified to do anything else.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

TobiasRoote said:


> If it was easy - we'd all be doing it.
> 
> Some books take off, some genres need decent material desperately, so when you produce something half way decent it flies.
> 
> ...


This is how I see it, too. There is no prescription for success, only steps you can take to increase its likelihood.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

If you used to sell short stories to magazines in the past, why not dig up some of those stories and put them up as a short story collection or standalones, provided you got the rights back, of course? Put a cheap premade cover on it and you've got the second book problem solved while you write the next in the series.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Yesterday, up to 9:00 pm EDT (when I record sales), book 1 sold 6, book 2 sold 16, book three sold 25, and all three combined had 2 overseas sales and 10 borrows. That was a $157.30 day, down slightly from the previous few days. In fact, yesterday was the first day below $200 in sales in almost two weeks. I need $140 a day to replace my day job income, or $165 a day to replace it comfortably, and be able to cover taxes and advertising/editing costs.


Just to give what it looks like from a sales strategy of "write more".

My IP series has had four books released. These are 15k shorts and the first is permafree.

Yesterday, I sold 8 copies of book 2, 6 copies of book 3 and 6 copies of book 4. These are priced at 2.99. This is what a usual day without a new release looks like for me when it comes to an in progress series that I sell at $2.99. This accounts for $41.60 on Amazon.

I also had 53 sales from my backlist on Amazon (this is where the bulk of my money comes every month). These sales totaled 104.93.

All together yesterday I made 156.30 on Amazon. This is within the normal average. Amazon sales go up slightly on release days, but most of the time I'm between $130-$160 a day.

Other sales channels are a bit hit and miss. I average $0 a day on Kobo, maybe $10 a day on BN and usually $10-20 on iTunes. Google Play doesn't have an average because it's so new and grows everyday. Their reporting is weird, but it looks like the last day I have data for on Play is 4/30, and I made $73ish.. idk how they do foreign conversion.

But my point is, if I had just a single release, I'd only be making $16 a day. And probably not even that because at this point my sales are being fed completely by the permafree in that series.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> Hang in there! In this business, it's all about having a funnel and a loss leader, which is really one and the same. Which means that you have to give away a book, or, at the very least, have it for .99, so that you can attract new readers to the rest of your series. But, since you have only one book, you don't quite have the funnel in place, so it's tough.
> 
> Seriously, I don't think that I would sell even a copy a day if I didn't have a permafree. Permafrees - which must be promoted, btw - give readers a chance to sample you for no money on their part. Then, when it leads into more books that are in that series, that's when the magic happens. That's the only thing that has gotten me off the ground.
> 
> ...


I love this, and thank you so so much for sharing and the invite, thank you!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Yesterday, up to 9:00 pm EDT (when I record sales), book 1 sold 6, book 2 sold 16, book three sold 25, and all three combined had 2 overseas sales and 10 borrows. That was a $157.30 day, down slightly from the previous few days. In fact, yesterday was the first day below $200 in sales in almost two weeks. I need $140 a day to replace my day job income, or $165 a day to replace it comfortably, and be able to cover taxes and advertising/editing costs.


You are BRILLIANT! Thank you so SO much for being candid! These are the kinds of markers I've been looking for, THANK YOU! This is something to set a goal by...very grateful!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Krista D. Ball said:


> I'm disillusioned constantly. I always am questioning if should write, if anyone cares if I write, if I even have any talent to write. I constantly am convinced my best work is behind me, and that it wasn't even all that good.
> 
> The only real reason that I keep going is because I'm pretty much not qualified to do anything else.


You sound like you need to attend a pick me up course, or conference. I must say, I do return full of promise from those. If you've done it once, you can do it again. And perhaps you just need a reminder of how wonderful you truly are?


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## Rob Ryan (Feb 19, 2014)

I'll throw this out there. . .

Personally, the cover, blurb etc, ticked all the right boxes for me (and I don't even read steampunk, and I'm definitely not the target audience). What threw me was that it's written in first person present tense. That's a killer for me.

Traditionally, that's an almost impossible sell in the commercial market. However, I realize that some recent books using that style have done pretty well...

Still, I have no other explanation for why you're not selling as well as you'd like. So, it might be worth thinking about.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> You sound like you need to attend a pick me up course, or conference. I must say, I do return full of promise from those. If you've done it once, you can do it again. And perhaps you just need a reminder of how wonderful you truly are?


A pick me up course would drive me up the freaking wall. Gawh, it sounds ghastly.


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

First thing to realise is that there are no rules in this business. What works for one person one time will not necessarily work for another or even that same person later. For me the only thing that seems to work consistently is to write more books. So that's what I do. I don't waste a second or a cent in advertising, haven't got a freebie out, don't have a mailing list, minimise my social media to basically interests, and write blog once a month which as often as not has nothing to do with writing let alone my books. I just write.

One thing I would absolutely say is do not write multiple genres - at least not at first. (I do this and I know it's a mistake - but that's simply who I am. The pattern I do see when I put out a book in one genre - say sci fi, is that my other books in that genre pick up in sales, but for example my fantasy books don't.) Writing in multiple genres is making a rod for your own back. Find one, stick to it, develop an audience in that genre.

The other thing to remember is that this is a marathon not a sprint. I just pubbed my seventeenth book and have been at this for four years. I only just crossed the thousand sales a month barrier last year. Currently my eighteenth is in editing and when it comes out it will boost my sales in that genre - Christian Fantasy - (my least successful seller) but won't do much for the rest. But then comes my next epic fantasy and that will lift a better selling genre. My goal is to keep writing more books in all four genres I write and maybe in a few more years when I have thirty books out I'll be selling in the multiple thousands per month.

So my advice is to write. Stick to it and don't sweat the sales. Maybe your next book will skyrocket, maybe you'll just reach a steady sales rate with your first ten. I don't know. But I do know that if you write, and enjoy writing, and regularly publish good books which other people like - no matter how many - you're already a winner. If all you can see are the sales numbers and all you can feel is dissatisfaction with them whatever they are, the chances are you won't win. And sooner or later you'll just give up.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

Cheers, Greg.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Briteka said:


> Just to give what it looks like from a sales strategy of "write more".
> 
> My IP series has had four books released. These are 15k shorts and the first is permafree.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this information. Thanks so so much for sharing. I take it your are writing a serial It is in the Romance genre? Just trying to get my head around your figures. Thanks so so SO much again.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Rob Ryan said:


> I'll throw this out there. . .
> 
> Personally, the cover, blurb etc, ticked all the right boxes for me (and I don't even read steampunk, and I'm definitely not the target audience). What threw me was that it's written in first person present tense. That's a killer for me.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this Rob! A lot of YA today is first person, and as you say, if done well, it can fly...but when it isn't...yikes...I agree. Thanks for caring enough to have a look! J


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks so much for this information. Thanks so so much for sharing. I take it your are writing a serial It is in the Romance genre? Just trying to get my head around your figures. Thanks so so SO much again.


This serial is a BBW erotic werewolf romance.

I write exclusively within erotic romance. These days I keep to New Adult, Paranormal and Gay genres.

I do occasionally branch out with different pen names into other things I like to write, but those never sell.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Briteka said:


> This serial is a BBW erotic werewolf romance.
> 
> I write exclusively within erotic romance. These days I keep to New Adult, Paranormal and Gay genres.
> 
> I do occasionally branch out with different pen names into other things I like to write, but those never sell.


Good to know...THANK YOU!


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Beautiful cover and all.

I went to look and your answer is right in one of your reviews.

At least one of your readers wrote that they COULDN'T WAIT TO BUY YOUR NEXT BOOK!

So, there you have it from the reader's mouths.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

As to cover: I've seen other photos you have from that shoot, Jackie, yes? That was custom photography, right? You could use a different one, change the dress color, crop it different, etc. yooo can dooooo eeeeet.


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## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

I was impressed with your cover, regina wamba is an amazing designer. Your writing was also solid, there is nothing you're doing wrong. You're doing everything right. But like everyone else I didn't take off until I had a perma free and my sales really grew when I had several perma frees out there. I like to have between 2-3 freebies going at any one time. My first month of publishing wasn't anything to write home about. When I released the second book in the series I jumped to almost 400 a month, then when I put out book 3 and placed book 1 at permafree that's when I became a full time writer. It wasn't easy or fast for me, it was a slow but constant upward progression and that's really all it was. At a certain point I stopped promoting the last book and focused on getting the next one out, then I'd promote a little bit more, then go back to focusing on writing. Repeating the cycle over and over, the permafreebies built up my newsletter subscriber base, getting into boxed sets has given me tremendous visibility. But I was in no way a writer who barreled out of the gates to this point. You're doing great.  

Everyone on here is really wise, more books, more sales. More possibilities of what you can do when promoting.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

mariehallwrites said:


> I was impressed with your cover, regina wamba is an amazing designer. Your writing was also solid, there is nothing you're doing wrong. You're doing everything right. But like everyone else I didn't take off until I had a perma free and my sales really grew when I had several perma frees out there. I like to have between 2-3 freebies going at any one time. My first month of publishing wasn't anything to write home about. When I released the second book in the series I jumped to almost 400 a month, then when I put out book 3 and placed book 1 at permafree that's when I became a full time writer. It wasn't easy or fast for me, it was a slow but constant upward progression and that's really all it was. At a certain point I stopped promoting the last book and focused on getting the next one out, then I'd promote a little bit more, then go back to focusing on writing. Repeating the cycle over and over, the permafreebies built up my newsletter subscriber base, getting into boxed sets has given me tremendous visibility. But I was in no way a writer who barreled out of the gates to this point. You're doing great.
> 
> Everyone on here is really wise, more books, more sales. More possibilities of what you can do when promoting.


Thanks for this...yes yes yes!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

LBrent said:


> Beautiful cover and all.
> 
> I went to look and your answer is right in one of your reviews.
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

MeiLinMiranda said:


> As to cover: I've seen other photos you have from that shoot, Jackie, yes? That was custom photography, right? You could use a different one, change the dress color, crop it different, etc. yooo can dooooo eeeeet.


Thanks and yes, yes...maybe yes...


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

Not sure how that helps (or not), but I guess you didn't get Lucky ...
So far, it seems you did everything you could to get Lucky so juste keep going...


> Q: I've done everything you say, but I'm still not selling. What's the problem?
> Joe: You haven't gotten lucky yet.


Cf this post from Joe Konrath a few years ago.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.fr/2011/09/how-to-succeed.html


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks Gary, this advice is brilliant! And YES, book one is too long for free...I'd owe money on every sale...as due to the file size, it costs me money on every sale as it is now...(another lesson learned...)


Concerning file size, it's probably due to the beutiful cover and internal images (if any). Perhaps you can integrate a lesser resolution images without sacrificing the esthetics ? this would alleviate your file size and make you more money returns.


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## sorcererseries (May 3, 2014)

Hi Jackie,

I'm an indie baby, only published on kindle on 21st April, so I'm less than two weeks old...so no advice from me, will just share my experience and that it may reinforce the two book argument.

Fortunately my book Soul of the Sorcerer was split-able into two, although book one is about 20% bigger. I launched both on the same day with book one essentially intended to be the cheepie to get the readers in and then, if they like it they buy book two which is a higher price.

Currently I have sold 134 of book 1 and 31 of book 2, so very pleasantly surprised...at the moment.

However I would kill for your reviews! And in fact although I have a single review on amazon.co.uk and its a great 5* one, on amazon.com I have two reviews (at the time of writing) one an irritating 1* and one almost the best bad review you could get (although a 3*). On amazon.com this gives my first book an average of 2* which I felt was going to kill sales!

if you want a laugh check them out!

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Sorcerer-Part-Talisman-King-ebook/product-reviews/B00JTX444W/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

However since those reviews on the 29th my sales in the USA have still been over 10 of book one a day. So there are some real strange and many variables which affect all this.

I certainly hope you don't lose heart, maybe it's not too late to break your book into a Part One and Part Two?

I have also yet to try the kindle select promotions on free books and would be interested to hear yours and other authors advice on this?

Anyway all the best Jackie.

Regs

Terry
P.S Just purchased your book


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Amazon charges a fee to download your file if it is a large file. I currently lose ten cents a book. I have gotten the file as small as I possibly can (trust me). It is just a long story so I am punished! lol Lesson: Don't write EPIC tales to publish in e-book form.


You know what, this just occurred to me. You said your story was too long, so it costs you money to give away free? Might you be able to break it up into two separate books? That way you have your loss leader, and the next book. Just a thought!


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

Just a slight addition to the 'hooks in the water' point. If you go to a market (a literal one) and the stallholder has only one thing for sale, I think most of us might give it a look but not necessarily be drawn EVEN IF it was the deal of the century. Browsing seems to be hard-wired into us now, especially via the Net (where we have 'browsers' of course) and the idea of browsing/grazing as our general mode of being as a consumer requires there to be a choice of goods on offer. It's something you just take completely for granted until you go to a culture/country where there isn't ubiquitous choice. This boils down to 'Keep writing more' but for cultural and psychological, as well as financial reasons.


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## Flopstick (Jul 19, 2011)

To add to what everyone else has been saying: your book has only been out for four months. In my experience, it takes longer than that for them to get any traction. Generally, after about a year the sales increase and become more consistent. Whether that's because they start to show up on 'also bought' lists, or something else to do with Amazon's algorithms, I don't know. It's like water gushing through a crack in a dam: it takes time for the first trickle to become a flood.


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## Dor North (Mar 24, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Ok...to clarify. 25 years back there was no Amazon. I sold stories to magazines, and periodicals, I even wrote an episode of an old children's show...AND I submitted books to publishers Picture Books at that time. Then I got divorced. Enough said. Black Hole of NO Writing that last ten long years. Then I picked up again, sporadically, submitting, publishing the odd article, story. THEN 7 years back took things very seriously, did the conference tour, studied under some greats, paid a story guru...spend a lot of money to learn the craft correctly...got an agent...been submitting through the agent for 5 years, of near-misses...and NOW have self pubbed.


So ...where are all these things?

Get checking your contracts for those short stories to make sure the rights have reverted back to you and get them for sale - bundles, singles, whatever works best.

And the 5 years of agent near-misses - those books are obviously not duff, so why haven't you got them for sale?

Normally I'd say don't be precious if you're here to make money: get every single thing up for sale with pre-made covers. But, your cover is lovely I'd worry about cheapening your brand (personally I'm not wild about kickstarter projects so that is influencing me). Maybe consider a pen-name for the other stuff but mention in the bio you also write the steampunk.

Plus what everybody said about getting book 2 out there.

The people in this thread who've said you can have a great product and still fail to sell it are correct, and that's true however it's published. For now, concentrate on the bits you like: the writing.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Two things re the funnel approach - as flopstick mentioned, even that can take time to kick in.  I wrote a funnel title which I released on March 15th and I was a bit amazed that it didn't take off like a rocket in my genre. 

15 days later, it did take off like a rocket - it took time for the Zon spiders to sniff about it and decide it deserved visibility based upon the few sales that I had managed to generate. 

So, I wrote another funnel title coming in from a different angle/age group, and released it on Wednesday - I'm seeing the same slow progress, a trickle of sales. I expect that book to take off like a rocket too in a couple of weeks. 

Now, the first funnel, a .99 title, has earned out already, so I'm delighted. In fact, it has earned enough to pay for the production of the second funnel. What was the benefit of the first funnel? I saw a 528% increase in my sales of my titles price at $2.99 or above. According to early figures for this month, my sales look like they will double again as the visibility of my other titles is soaring. 

Success begets success on Zon. 

Funnel.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I *love* the cover, but I'm not sure it appeals to the young adult or SFF market. It looks more to me like a romance.

BTW, on those authors who's first book took off? Some of them are new pen names, not new authors and were very savvy calculated attempts to craft a bestseller in a hot genre based really on analyzing hot trends.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Great post, I'm a newbie also other then I've got 2 books out, I was feeling the same way and this post has helped me get back on track


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

CASD57 said:


> Great post, I'm a newbie also other then I've got 2 books out, I was feeling the same way and this post has helped me get back on track


YAY! So happy this happened for you! It has really helped me get back into a better state of mind about all this, too!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

TheSFReader said:


> Not sure how that helps (or not), but I guess you didn't get Lucky ...
> So far, it seems you did everything you could to get Lucky so juste keep going...
> Cf this post from Joe Konrath a few years ago.
> http://jakonrath.blogspot.fr/2011/09/how-to-succeed.html


Yes LUCK, seems to be that elusive white rabbit in my writing/publishing arena. It has been for 5 years. I have some very famous critique partners, who I watched fly up ladders of tremendous success, all of whom had books we critiqued together and we shared an agent, but the LUCK factor just didn't come together for me. I'm hoping it kicks in soon. Thanks


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> At 400+ pages, you could always bump up the price to $4.99 to compensate. Now would be the time to test it. i.e. when you have slow sales you really have nothing to lose by experimenting.


Book length warrants a test bump to 4.99... give it a try, you can always drop back down.
BTW, checked the opening pages, grabbed my attention, and I picked up a copy. Good writing.
Also, add your book to your sig line.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

TheSFReader said:


> Concerning file size, it's probably due to the beutiful cover and internal images (if any). Perhaps you can integrate a lesser resolution images without sacrificing the esthetics ? this would alleviate your file size and make you more money returns.


Thanks, THIS I have done, but if I do anymore would serious hinder presentation. I do however, wonder about splitting the book, as it is truth that parts could possible stand alone.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Brian Spangler said:


> Book length warrants a test bump to 4.99... give it a try, you can always drop back down.
> BTW, checked the opening pages, grabbed my attention, and I picked up a copy. Good writing.
> Also, add your book to your sig line.


You are WONDERFUL! THANK YOU SO MUCH! I actually did start it out at $4.99 and it sold well for like a week, but I attributed that to my writing friends in the trad world spilling over to support me. When things then got super quiet, I fiddled with the price an it chugged along S L O W L Y after that...perhaps you are correct...perhaps it is again time to play with it and bump it up. It was a mammoth writing undertaking


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

sorcererseries said:


> Hi Jackie,
> 
> I'm an indie baby, only published on kindle on 21st April, so I'm less than two weeks old...so no advice from me, will just share my experience and that it may reinforce the two book argument.
> 
> ...


Hey Terry,

Thanks so so much for sharing. I'm curious to know, is your book a Fantasy book then? Is it for teens? Or adults? And how do you have it presented on Amazon, what string/categories? Not trying to pry, just trying to understand the mystical beast more and get my head around the figures you've presented. You've done AMAZING, seriously...I've not seen those kinds of numbers at all. And as you say, the strange phenomenon about the reviews is perplexing at best!!! I've seen the SAME thing with a trad pub friend who's reviews are (lowers voice) horrid by in large, YET, her book is selling gangbusters. We have a theory that teens are downloading it just to rip on it later, to join in the monstrously mean review crowd its sadly attracted, like some rite of passage or something. It's worrisome, sure, but if you're still selling, it might be a case of sometimes just those who have nothing good to say, voice their opinions, sadly. When people are content they tend to smile and just sigh. Oh, and THANK YOU so much for the supportive purchase. Very kind of you. I appreciate it very much. J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> You know what, this just occurred to me. You said your story was too long, so it costs you money to give away free? Might you be able to break it up into two separate books? That way you have your loss leader, and the next book. Just a thought!


THIS is truth. And thank you. I'm thinking on how that might be possible.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

EC said:


> Two things re the funnel approach - as flopstick mentioned, even that can take time to kick in. I wrote a funnel title which I released on March 15th and I was a bit amazed that it didn't take off like a rocket in my genre.
> 
> 15 days later, it did take off like a rocket - it took time for the Zon spiders to sniff about it and decide it deserved visibility based upon the few sales that I had managed to generate.
> 
> ...


To both you and flopstick, this stuff boggles my mind. Thank you for helping to explain this to me better. I really wish I were more savvy on this front. Leaders and funnels and algorithms and such. It's slowly sinking in though, and THANK YOU BOTH AGAIN so much for explaining!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Flopstick said:


> To add to what everyone else has been saying: your book has only been out for four months. In my experience, it takes longer than that for them to get any traction. Generally, after about a year the sales increase and become more consistent. Whether that's because they start to show up on 'also bought' lists, or something else to do with Amazon's algorithms, I don't know. It's like water gushing through a crack in a dam: it takes time for the first trickle to become a flood.


Yes, just four months is true. My worry was I was seeing a steady falling off, instead of a steady slow climb, and I had no idea how to react to it. It's like a bad slide in a car on an icy highway. It all happens in slow motion and you keep trying to adjust but you just keep spinning slowly, painfully, out, and your like SHIT I can do this, there MUST be someway I can pull out of this...THINK! THINK! THINK! Best way I can describe the feeling! HA!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Brian Spangler said:


> Book length warrants a test bump to 4.99... give it a try, you can always drop back down.
> BTW, checked the opening pages, grabbed my attention, and I picked up a copy. Good writing.
> Also, add your book to your sig line.


Thank you also so very very much for adding me to your sig line!


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## writejenwrite (Feb 25, 2014)

Flopstick said:


> To add to what everyone else has been saying: your book has only been out for four months. In my experience, it takes longer than that for them to get any traction. Generally, after about a year the sales increase and become more consistent. Whether that's because they start to show up on 'also bought' lists, or something else to do with Amazon's algorithms, I don't know. It's like water gushing through a crack in a dam: it takes time for the first trickle to become a flood.


That makes me feel so much better. I was hearing anecdotally about people who were seeing great results from their first 3-4 months (two of my friends who'd released their debut books--one trad pubbed, one self-pubbed--both sold 500+ in those early months), and that just made me feel as though I'd already missed the boat before I even got to the dock.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

WOW!  The out pouring of love and support and better even, INFORMATION, HONESTY, AND BRAINSTORMING on this thread is AMAZING! Know that I am equal parts grateful, impressed, astonished, and overwhelmed by your candidacy and your genuine kindness and willingness to help out your fellow man/author. I'm so so so thrilled to have heard from each and every one of you and blown away by your acts of support and generosity as well. 

Yesterday, I woke feeling defeated, wondering what I had done bothering to think I could get this Indie balloon off the ground. The niggling pull of the trad industry was lapping at my heels, as well-intentioned friends (other trad writers and agent) who don't really understand what it is to be Indie, or attempt to launch Indie, were turning my ear...implying it might be easier just to throw in this Indie towel and retreat to the comfort of the endless submission cave in which I have sat, crouched in a dark corner, waiting and hoping for a breakthrough, my chance to pass through those elusive gates, and onto a path of success, like each of them, EVEN THOUGH I know how HARD it is to land a trad contract, and what a bit of a PIPE DREAM that whole scenario is...

My old trad friends are well meaning, they sincerely wish I'd gotten through the trad gates with them, think I deserved to, and see it as an injustice on some fronts why I didn't. But to some, they see me stuck now behind a new set of gates with no keys to the kingdom, and well...I think I was viewing things slightly that way yesterday myself, as well. 

But, You people have breathed new hope into the Indie experience for me, by offering several new sets of keys! Wisdom and insight and honesty and suggestions. You made concrete attempts to help me find solutions and bore your hearts and your statistics along the way!

What I have learned, through the messages shared here and to me privately, is that many of you were feeling the same about your own experiences, doubting your choices and your decisions--I am not alone!  I wasn't the only one feeling as though I were floundering. Isn't it wonderful to share? 

I want to thank each and every one of you for this wonderful thread filled with compassion for our craft and concern for me. 

For those still posting, this message extends to you as well...thank you, and lets keep this wonderful open, caring, sharing thread and connection going. 

J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

writejenwrite said:


> That makes me feel so much better. I was hearing anecdotally about people who were seeing great results from their first 3-4 months (two of my friends who'd released their debut books--one trad pubbed, one self-pubbed--both sold 500+ in those early months), and that just made me feel as though I'd already missed the boat before I even got to the dock.


You and me TOO! SISTA!!!


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

Well, I didn't think I was a newbie, but I'll ask the newbie question - what's a funnel book?


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## writejenwrite (Feb 25, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> What I have learned, through the messages shared here and to me privately, is that many of you were feeling the same about your own experiences, doubting your choices and your decisions--I am not alone!


You are most certainly not alone, and we'll trudge through this dense jungle together to come out on the other side victorious .


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## kcochran (Apr 30, 2012)

When I put my book out, it had over 27,000 downloads when I set it free....then I sold several hundred copies.  I was elated.  But, then sales dropped quickly and when I stopped promoting they dwindled to just a few copies a month.

My biggest advice to anyone reading the thread looking for the "magic" answer, is that there is no magic answer.  But, I would definitely recommend having another book ready to publish in the next month or two after your first.  I wish I had written the second in my series before I published...because life got in the way and now it has been 2 years...and my second will be coming out this year.  But...then I am probably still behind because I haven't even started my third.  I would also say...never stop promoting!

As I am sure others have posted - It's a marathon not a sprint.


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## phildukephd (Jan 6, 2013)

Self publiashing is a very difficult endeavor. You are not alone, it is your choice to keep on writing etc. or stop. If you stop you can always go back. Good luck!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

For wise and maybe some not so wise words from a trad to self publisher, go read JA Konrath's blog.  He is good but don't tell him I said that.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

So glad you're feeling better!!


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

joyceharmon said:


> Well, I didn't think I was a newbie, but I'll ask the newbie question - what's a funnel book?


A funnel book is a book that is cheap, really cheap, or free. Preferably free, and attached to a series. The principle is that the reader will pick up the book for free, and then buy the subsequent books. Hence the word "funnel" - the book funnels the reader into all the other books. For this, I definitely recommend permafree, but some price their funnel book at .99. Personally, I still see .99 as a barrier to entry, which is why I choose my funnel books to be free.


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## ThrillerWriter (Aug 19, 2012)

This is a long thread, and I just don't have the time to read through it. EelKat crushed it as always.

I felt the exact same thing when I published my first novel in 2012. I wondered if I was going to continue to put the time in because I wasn't sure it was possible to make a living doing this. I still feel this way sometimes. Felt it this morning, actually.

Then I told myself, that was enough, and I had work to do. I'm going to his 6,000 words today. I'm going to read more on the indie market. I'm going to finish up an interview for a blogger. I'm going to, quite simply, invest my time in my business. Konrath says all the time you don't deserve anything, and we don't. Just because you followed a very strong path, and followed it very well, doesn't mean you're going to make sales. Do you like writing? Do you like running your own business? If so, do it for the sake of doing those things and not for the end result of cash in your pocket. I think, believe really, that the cash will come--but I'm not tied to it. I'm tied to running my business the best possible way I can.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks Gary, this advice is brilliant! And YES, book one is too long for free...I'd owe money on every sale...as due to the file size, it costs me money on every sale as it is now...(another lesson learned...)


I don't understand this. Your file size is shown as 1105 KB, actual size will be less because Amazon show the combined size for both formats. Even if 1105 KB was the actual size, the delivery charge shouldn't be more than $0.30, and should be less (it's $0.15/Mb and they pro-rata it).

If you made it free (or just made it less than $2.99) there would be no delivery charge. Personally I would bump the price higher though.


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

joyceharmon said:


> Well, I didn't think I was a newbie, but I'll ask the newbie question - what's a funnel book?


Joyce, it's a marketing metaphor - that you have a product, often a loss-leader, that draws people in and leads them to buying the rest of the series / serial. Advertising / permafree / bookbub, etc on the first installment / prequel story is like having a large mouth of a funnel - trying to draw in a lot of people, so they'll go further down the funnel / have a high conversion ration on buying book 2, 3, 4, & etc. without having to spend much in advertising at all on any later books in the series/serial (the skinny neck of the funnel.)

It's not a perfect metaphor - you'll find lots of notes that letting your audience know the latest book / installment is out is a Very Good Idea. But it's a serviceable one, and covers all the options people use to hook readers into a series.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

Quick remarks on others' posts:

Cover doesn't read romance to me, reads high-end fantasy. That is a New York-quality cover. Plaster that thing everywhere.

Poster meant you should put your books in YOUR sig, not that they put your book in THEIR sig. 

Put that sucker back up to $4.99. It looks like a bargain at $4.99. In pricing experiments, leave the price alone for a couple of months. What the heck, raise it to $5.99.

Drop the gorgeous interior headers in the ebook version. My print books are all glammed out but the ebooks are super simple--exactly because they're word-heavy and I don't want to pay delivery fees. I don't think your cover counts against your download, unless you've included a copy inside the book file. Don't do that. Amazon includes a copy of the cover automatically, so you're paying to send a second unneeded copy. You should NOT be paying delivery fees on this book. Something's wrong.

Finally:

Jackie, your friends are looking at you sadly because their books get six weeks _only_ to make or break. Past that point, they're in the dustbin. They're looking at you and thinking, poor thing, she missed her window.

You didn't miss your window. You're an indie. We make our own effing windows.

Just remember this: Your books have as long as it takes to break. It may be a week, it may be a month it may be a year or two or three, but yours will be ready for that break while trad books released the same day will have already been consigned to the back catalog--or no catalog at all.

You know how to reach me. We can prop each other up through this. 

(I wish we had a cheerleader emoticon like at another site I go to...)


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Well, you can take my opinion for what it's worth, but there's no way in hell I would self-publish a YA book these days. I have a YA SF on the back burner and I'm only gonna write it if it gets sold to a publisher ahead of time. Why waste my time writing a book that will get no visibility when I can use the same amount of time to write a romance that will pay the bills?

Each genre has rules, YA is in a class by itself. It's ruled by the publishers, a very small set of book bloggers, and author support. They do things a certain way. They expect a print ARC months in advance. You release on a Tuesday. This genre has not gone with the flow of self-publishing. And this is funny, since that was not the case a few years ago. But like you said, times have changed. This is the case now. 

And, just some general advice since I'm here. You have to write a ton of books. Most people do not write books that "stick" meaning they stay  in the Top 20 of their major genre and continue to make money for months or even years. Some do. I have a friend with books like that. She's lucky. I'm not. My new releases linger in the "good" rankings for about a month. then, they taper off.

You need to write a ton of books. Your future success is always based on the next new release. Forget about those who got lucky. Make your own luck... and by that I mean, write a ton of books.


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## writejenwrite (Feb 25, 2014)

MeiLinMiranda said:


> Jackie, your friends are looking at you sadly because their books get six weeks _only_ to make or break. Past that point, they're in the dustbin. They're looking at you and thinking, poor thing, she missed her window.
> 
> You didn't miss your window. You're an indie. We make our own effing windows.
> 
> Just remember this: Your books have as long as it takes to break. It may be a week, it may be a month it may be a year or two or three, but yours will be ready for that break while trad books released the same day will have already been consigned to the back catalog--or no catalog at all.


I think I'm going to print this and post it to my inspiration board, so I can remind myself of this every time I get discouraged .


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## dianasg (Jan 8, 2010)

I just wanted to say thanks to the OP and pretty much everyone who has contributed to this thread. It is one of the of the most encouraging and useful ones I've found here lately -- so much great advice!


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## Danielle Monsch (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't think I have anything to add that wasn't in other posts, but I do want to say your cover is stunning - who did it?


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm feeling very disillusioned by the entire Self Pub Journey, and I'm looking for insight, support, commentary, discussion...anything really.
> 
> ...


I haven't read the entire thread, so maybe someone's already said this, but what you're experiencing is not a product of self publishing. It goes with the territory of being a published author. If you'd signed with a publisher they may have done all the exact same things you did and garnered the same results. There are no guarantees regardless of the avenue you choose to pursue.

Just be comforted by the fact that you _know_ exactly what did or didn't get done and the next time around you can try something different. That's the beauty of self publishing. If you hadn't self-pubbed you'd be even more in the dark about why your book suddenly stopped selling.


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

I just wanted to jump in and say that this has been a great thread for me, too. I've got two books out, but they're in different genres and one is a novella. I think my sales are up to about 250, total, most of them with the romance I published in November. 109 of those sales came in one heady week during my Countdown promo, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping for more.

I, too, haven't covered my costs (which were pretty dang modest), but if I keep going, then maybe I will get into the black after a few more releases (and if I can stick to one genre for more than a book at a time!).


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## BCotton (Aug 1, 2013)

ONE book out for THREE months and you're worried about sales

Your expectations are completely unreasonable. You need to have several books out for several years to start seeing a following and then MAYBE sales. 
You need to build your platform, grow your audience, and market correctly for waaaaaaay more than a few weeks. Social media, author networks, online and offline communities, blogs, interviews, guest posts, reviews, book clubs... should I go on? 

Check out JA Konrath, Hugh Howey, and folks like that. Now best-selling indie authors. I know for a fact it took Hugh about 10 years and 10 books to start seeing sales. That's more the reality of the situation, and STILL, he's one of the lucky ones. For every Hugh Howey there are 1000 no-names doing the same thing.

I'm not picking on you! Just trying to bring you down to reality.
You have a lovely book cover, perhaps even a fantastic story, but you need so much more than that.

Putting out a book is the easy part. Now the real work begins. 

Good luck! We're all rooting for you!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

I feel compelled to rein in the focus of this post again, since I know it is a lot to read. For those of you just joining us, please know this is not about pursuing a get rich quick scheme, it is about trying to gain perspective on what constitutes reasonable expectations in self publishing for the average self pubber just entering the game ie: true sales facts, figures, strategies, and so on, for those of us who are not considered instant breakout Indie success stories. It is about cutting through the get-rich-quck hype that's out there,  and seeking truthful, concrete data on the average self pub experience. 

I'm having a bit of a problem with a double-edged sword that keeps rearing its ugly head here. There is a lot of talk about the fact we are all operating our own businesses as Indies, but in the next breath it is dashed by comments that imply that Indies should just be grateful, happy to write and publish, satisfied with creating their own art in their own way, and not worry about the numbers and stats. So which is it? If this is a business, or not? Let's be honest, I doubt many of us entered into this business of self publishing with a goal of making little to no money. I get that it isn't reasonable to think you'll make over night, but like with any business, savvy business owners check in on their businesses from time to time, usually around the quarterly (3-4 month) mark, and make adjustments wherever necessary to ensure their businesses keep growing, heading in the right direction, helping to (or eventually to) pay down their company's debt, not add to it. So why then, when it comes to books, are we all so compelled to scold one another for participating in this same good business behaviour, seeing it as too soon, or counterproductive in some way. Why, if we are all business, shouldn't we be concerned with the bottom line, looking, wondering, seeking out ways to drive sales up instead of standing by and watching them sink? As an Indie, I believe we all wear two hats, a business entrepreneurial one and a creative one. Yes, I know I need to be writing more books, and I see that now as part of an enhancement to my business model (thanks to all of you) but I also feel there is nothing wrong with checking in on stats and trying to bolster the bottom line.

Again, this thread's focus is not about seeking out a get rich quick scheme, but it is about seeking ways to nurture a sustainable viable growing business model and how to best enhance product to get there. As well, it is about my disillusionment with the system, partly driven by the lack of facts, and true sales data available on the average Indie experience, by which to help newcomers set reasonable goals, versus the plethora of data provided by the rare experience of Indie outliers. This thread has offered tremendous insight to help close that gap and I thank all who spoke up for sharing their information. 

Thank you ALL.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ameliasmith said:


> I just wanted to jump in and say that this has been a great thread for me, too. I've got two books out, but they're in different genres and one is a novella. I think my sales are up to about 250, total, most of them with the romance I published in November. 109 of those sales came in one heady week during my Countdown promo, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping for more.
> 
> I, too, haven't covered my costs (which were pretty dang modest), but if I keep going, then maybe I will get into the black after a few more releases (and if I can stick to one genre for more than a book at a time!).


I think we all need to bust out champagne on days when we sell 100 books...I'll keep you posted when that happens!!! lol


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

JanneCO said:


> Well, you can take my opinion for what it's worth, but there's no way in hell I would self-publish a YA book these days. I have a YA SF on the back burner and I'm only gonna write it if it gets sold to a publisher ahead of time. Why waste my time writing a book that will get no visibility when I can use the same amount of time to write a romance that will pay the bills?
> 
> Each genre has rules, YA is in a class by itself. It's ruled by the publishers, a very small set of book bloggers, and author support. They do things a certain way. They expect a print ARC months in advance. You release on a Tuesday. This genre has not gone with the flow of self-publishing. And this is funny, since that was not the case a few years ago. But like you said, times have changed. This is the case now.
> 
> ...


Writing. Writing. Writing.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

DianaGabriel said:


> I just wanted to say thanks to the OP and pretty much everyone who has contributed to this thread. It is one of the of the most encouraging and useful ones I've found here lately -- so much great advice!


I'm so happy that everyone shared what they have as well!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Danielle Monsch said:


> I don't think I have anything to add that wasn't in other posts, but I do want to say your cover is stunning - who did it?


The photo was taken by a friend. I staged it. My son did the effects and clean up. And then Regina Wamba at Mae I Design did all the finishing touches and brought it together.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

BCotton said:


> ONE book out for THREE months and you're worried about sales
> 
> Your expectations are completely unreasonable. You need to have several books out for several years to start seeing a following and then MAYBE sales.
> You need to build your platform, grow your audience, and market correctly for waaaaaaay more than a few weeks. Social media, author networks, online and offline communities, blogs, interviews, guest posts, reviews, book clubs... should I go on?
> ...


Thank you so much!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

SunshineOnMe said:


> So glad you're feeling better!!


THANK YOU!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

David Beers said:


> This is a long thread, and I just don't have the time to read through it. EelKat crushed it as always.
> 
> I felt the exact same thing when I published my first novel in 2012. I wondered if I was going to continue to put the time in because I wasn't sure it was possible to make a living doing this. I still feel this way sometimes. Felt it this morning, actually.
> 
> Then I told myself, that was enough, and I had work to do. I'm going to his 6,000 words today. I'm going to read more on the indie market. I'm going to finish up an interview for a blogger. I'm going to, quite simply, invest my time in my business. Konrath says all the time you don't deserve anything, and we don't. Just because you followed a very strong path, and followed it very well, doesn't mean you're going to make sales. Do you like writing? Do you like running your own business? If so, do it for the sake of doing those things and not for the end result of cash in your pocket. I think, believe really, that the cash will come--but I'm not tied to it. I'm tied to running my business the best possible way I can.


Thanks for your honesty! YES, I think we all have these days...doubts. I do love writing. And I do love running this business, but I want it to be profitable or at least headed in that direction and sometimes we need to stop and reflect on that in order to make the appropriate adjustments. THANKS for sharing!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

MeiLinMiranda said:


> Quick remarks on others' posts:
> 
> Cover doesn't read romance to me, reads high-end fantasy. That is a New York-quality cover. Plaster that thing everywhere.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this!!! I really appreciate it!


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> I'm having a bit of a problem with a double-edged sword that keeps rearing its ugly head here. There is a lot of talk about the fact we are all operating our own businesses as Indies, but in the next breath it is dashed by comments that imply that Indies should just be grateful, happy to write and publish, satisfied with creating their own art in their own way, and not worry about the numbers and stats. So which is it? If this is a business, or not? Let's be honest, I doubt many of us entered into this business of self publishing with a goal of making little to no money.


Welcome to the world of art. Most artists hope to make money, to be one of the well-known artists who make it big. This includes: writers, actors, painters, musicians, filmmakers, computer/video game developers, etc. By deciding to become an artist rather than going into a field where you're much more likely to have a guaranteed income, you pretty much have to make peace with the fact that you're taking a huge gamble. Artists need to have an audience. How an artist manages to create a product that strikes the fancy of a large buying public is a bit of a mystery. Often by the time a writer finishes writing a book in a very popular genre, the popularity of that genre has already passed. The best a writer can do is to keep writing books, keep honing their craft, keep reaching out to the public...and hoping that one day you have the right book at the right time. The same is true for people starting up small businesses. Many fail because the public simply doesn't want the product or someone else makes it big with the same type of product before the first business has it ready to go to market.

The difficulty of finding a huge fan base isn't only true of indie authors, by the way. A number of authors published by the big publishing houses have written blog posts about how little money they made even after hitting major best-seller lists. Some have written about being dropped by their publisher after having a first book not sell in huge numbers. Being an artist is tough. So few make it, no matter how talented they are.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> I think the point is being missed here. I am not expecting to be a break out success. I may not have written that one book in a million, but I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...
> I guess I'm just tired of all the hype about selling 100's of books a day if you tick all the boxes mentioned above...I think things have changed drastically...and no one is adjusting the stories...


When I only had one book out, it didn't start selling any kind of steady numbers, even LOW but steady numbers, until it had been out for a good six months. I honestly just left it alone, ignored it, literally FORGOT I'd self-published it at all, and wrote more books.

It started to find an audience all by itself shortly before I was ready to release Book 2. Then when I released Book 3, I really started to see some serious momentum.

It honestly does just take more product. I haven't read through all 10 pages of this thread yet, so hopefully somebody has already mentioned this...if they have, it's worth repeating: this is a LONG-term game. Expect it to take several months, maybe even a year or more, until you start seeing even modest but steady sales. Hopefully you'll beat the odds and see things pick up sooner than that, but if you don't, you will avoid feeling so frustrated because you're just doing what you expected you would. 

We've all been so trained to think of the publishing journey in terms of a quick accumulation of steady sales and one book gaining notoriety all on its own. That's mostly the media's romantic idea of what it's like to be a writer; it was never in line with reality back in the old-timey days of tradpub only, and it's definitely not the new reality of self-publishing.

Remember: long-term thinking. Plan and act for what will happen months down the line. That means write more books now; don't fret over what's happening to your book at this moment; you only have one out. More books, and then you can justify worrying, if you need to worry at all by then.  With your good reviews and the work you've put into making a quality product, you may very well see your books start to take off once you've just got more out there.

A big factor in why "write more books" works so well is because readers just see your name and your brand more often. The more they see it, the more they feel comfortable with it, and the more new readers take a chance on you.

Long-term. It's a slow game, sister.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Marilyn Peake said:


> Welcome to the world of art. Most artists hope to make money, to be one of the well-known artists who make it big. This includes: writers, actors, painters, musicians, filmmakers, computer/video game developers, etc. By deciding to become an artist rather than going into a field where you're much more likely to have a guaranteed income, you pretty much have to make peace with the fact that you're taking a huge gamble. Artists need to have an audience. How an artist manages to create a product that strikes the fancy of a large buying public is a bit of a mystery. Often by the time a writer finishes writing a book in a very popular genre, the popularity of that genre has already passed. The best a writer can do is to keep writing books, keep honing their craft, keep reaching out to the public...and hoping that one day you have the right book at the right time. The same is true for people starting up small businesses. Many fail because the public simply doesn't want the product or someone else makes it big with the same type of product before the first business has it ready to go to market.
> 
> The difficulty of finding a huge fan base isn't only true of indie authors, by the way. A number of authors published by the big publishing houses have written blog posts about how little money they made even after hitting major best-seller lists. Some have written about being dropped by their publisher after having a first book not sell in huge numbers. Being an artist is tough. So few make it, no matter how talented they are.


I'm not disputing anything you've said here. My above post was in response to some that were challenging the need to check out book performance and stats so early in the game.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> When I only had one book out, it didn't start selling any kind of steady numbers, even LOW but steady numbers, until it had been out for a good six months. I honestly just left it alone, ignored it, literally FORGOT I'd self-published it at all, and wrote more books.
> 
> It started to find an audience all by itself shortly before I was ready to release Book 2. Then when I released Book 3, I really started to see some serious momentum.
> 
> ...


THANKS SO SO MUCH for sharing! This is awesome encouraging information. And yes, I think it is difficult coming from the trad pub world where the book is chosen and IS expect to take off gangbusters and so it becomes ingrained in your head. Thanks for your honesty! For Sharing! J


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> I'm not disputing anything you've said here. My above post was in response to some that were challenging the need to check out book performance and stats so early in the game.


Oh, got ya. I check my stats obsessively. Sometimes I wish I had no such inclination.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I highly recommend you go read the guy I recommended privately.  Also his radio podcasts are great too.  I guarantee you will get some ideas.  
Good luck.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I've read most of this thread. I don't have any advice that hasn't been given already. I have many regrets at my own procrastination. This year I have to concentrate on selling and moving. Next year......

Thanks all for participating and sharing your comments.


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## sorcererseries (May 3, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Hey Terry,
> 
> Thanks so so much for sharing. I'm curious to know, is your book a Fantasy book then? Is it for teens? Or adults? And how do you have it presented on Amazon, what string/categories? Not trying to pry, just trying to understand the mystical beast more and get my head around the figures you've presented. You've done AMAZING, seriously...I've not seen those kinds of numbers at all. And as you say, the strange phenomenon about the reviews is perplexing at best!!! I've seen the SAME thing with a trad pub friend who's reviews are (lowers voice) horrid by in large, YET, her book is selling gangbusters. We have a theory that teens are downloading it just to rip on it later, to join in the monstrously mean review crowd its sadly attracted, like some rite of passage or something. It's worrisome, sure, but if you're still selling, it might be a case of sometimes just those who have nothing good to say, voice their opinions, sadly. When people are content they tend to smile and just sigh. Oh, and THANK YOU so much for the supportive purchase. Very kind of you. I appreciate it very much. J


Hi Jackie,

My book is a Fantasy and I would say it would appeal to adults more than teens. The strange thing about my book is that I really believe it's a secret love story, but don't tell the hardcore Fantasy readers LOL. So I have listed it's two main categories as FICTION > Fantasy > Epic and
FICTION > Romance > Fantasy (I believe people will come for the fantasy and return for the love story). The seven sub categories being Dragons, Romance, Sword & Sorcery, Throne, Tragedy, Magic, Coming of Age

Hope this helps.

Cant wait to start reading your book! still slogging my way through book 5 of Game of Thrones at the moment and finding it very tedious! (if it wasn't for the TV show I wouldn't remember one tenth of the character names!


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> I don't think your cover counts against your download, unless you've included a copy inside the book file. Don't do that. Amazon includes a copy of the cover automatically, so you're paying to send a second unneeded copy.


If you're uploading a mobi or epub and have the cover internally, Amazon will remove it and replace it with whatever you've uploaded. For calibre files generated from html, you need to have a cover internally or zon will reject them. Not sure about the Calibre docx converter which is a huge upgrade from the older html one.


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

Kat S said:


> If you're uploading a mobi or epub and have the cover internally, Amazon will remove it and replace it with whatever you've uploaded. For calibre files generated from html, you need to have a cover internally or zon will reject them. Not sure about the Calibre docx converter which is a huge upgrade from the older html one.


Thanks for this. I was beginning to wonder if I was doing it wrong.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

OP - I just looked at you're sample.  Okay, sorry to say this - drop the dedication.  People read the sample to get a feel for the book - if you really need to dedicate the book, do it at the end. 

I would even re-name the prologue more cleverly - many readers, including myself, detest prologues. 

I know it may sound harsh, but you've just demonstrated one of the fundamental mstakes of self-pubbing.  You got me to the point of reading the sample, then you turned me right off.  I lay you odds there are plenty like me out there, but they just don't want to say because the dedication is emotive.

The sample is for selling, not for expressing your loss. 

I'll go put on a helmet now and sit in a corner, as I expect to catch some abuse for this post. 

Sorry.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Marilyn Peake said:


> Oh, got ya. I check my stats obsessively. Sometimes I wish I had no such inclination.


Good then, I'm in great company!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

sorcererseries said:


> Hi Jackie,
> 
> My book is a Fantasy and I would say it would appeal to adults more than teens. The strange thing about my book is that I really believe it's a secret love story, but don't tell the hardcore Fantasy readers LOL. So I have listed it's two main categories as FICTION > Fantasy > Epic and
> FICTION > Romance > Fantasy (I believe people will come for the fantasy and return for the love story). The seven sub categories being Dragons, Romance, Sword & Sorcery, Throne, Tragedy, Magic, Coming of Age
> ...


Hey Terry,

Thanks so so much for being so candid! I've struggled with strings and categories and I NOW see how I'm messing the category end right up! HA! I've been putting in terms like Teens, Teen Read, Teen Romance, Adventure Romance...not really key words that may be themes or interesting things in the book like maybe Coming of Age, or Inventions, or Valkyries...stuff like that...so THANKS!

As well, thank you for planning to read my book, very much...and I hear you about Game of Thrones...my husband is reading that one right now and he said he feels like its a sweat to keep up and he needs to create a story bible to chart all the characters, and yet there's no point because he has them all straight, he's sure George is going to off them on him! HA!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Kat S said:


> If you're uploading a mobi or epub and have the cover internally, Amazon will remove it and replace it with whatever you've uploaded. For calibre files generated from html, you need to have a cover internally or zon will reject them. Not sure about the Calibre docx converter which is a huge upgrade from the older html one.


Thanks for this Wisdom Kat...so great to know! I love that people are just sharing all here! So helpful!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

EC said:


> OP - I just looked at you're sample. Okay, sorry to say this - drop the dedication. People read the sample to get a feel for the book - if you really need to dedicate the book, do it at the end.
> 
> I would even re-name the prologue more cleverly - many readers, including myself, detest prologues.
> 
> ...


No need for the helmet. I appreciate all comments.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> No need for the helmet. I appreciate all comments.


Thanks - and I do get the emotional importance of the dedication. They are a common feature in print books, not suited for ebooks, though. Far too front and centre.

At least in print copies we can skim past them. Have a look at the prologue too, though, you'd be amazed at how many people flinch when they see that word.


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Removed due to site owner's change of TOS.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Rickie Blair said:


> Many of the authors of those books probably thought, "Hey, I've got a publishing contract -- I'm on my way!" Not so much. The only thing that happens for many is that they've lost control of their product.
> 
> Because if a book _doesn't_ take off immediately, it gets dropped.


This. But I want to add...a publishing house can completely kill a book that DID take off dead if the distribution "breaks" because someone isn't doing their job. Your book can be COMPLETELY UNAVAILABLE from major bookstores within 3 weeks because it sold out, and no more were ordered because the bookstore has a crappy ordering system and the publisher just....doesn't bother to follow up. (I have to say that I danced on Border's grave just a weeeee bit.)


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vmblack said:


> This. But I want to add...a publishing house can completely kill a book that DID take off dead if the distribution "breaks" because someone isn't doing their job. Your book can be COMPLETELY UNAVAILABLE from major bookstores within 3 weeks because it sold out, and no more were ordered because the bookstore has a crappy ordering system and the publisher just....doesn't bother to follow up. (I have to say that I danced on Border's grave just a weeeee bit.)


I know stories such as this all too well. I've had a number of friends with a number of crazy situations that helped kill their books, some were offered contracts and orphaned before they even got started. Or as the above commentator said, they just didn't sell all that well and their publishers abandoned them or dropped them. But I also know an equal number of authors who were awarded great contracts from publishers and are thriving very well. So I get the obscurity of the industry for sure. In YA recently (past 7 years) the advances from the Big Houses have been solid and relatively high, which is very tempting, as you actually DO get to see some money, and up front, guaranteed, but I know and realize it's all a crap shoot of your book sticking or hitting once it is released, (though they have access to major channels to help sufficiently promote) and I'm well aware of many that have, and have not. I'm also well aware of many who enjoyed a ride at the top of best seller for a spell, awarded big advances, like BIG ones, and are doing very well. But I've also come to know a greater number of them in the same situation who have then not been offered a second contract.

There is; however, something to be said for having access to the muscle those big (what is it now 4 or 3) publishers have to offer ie: access to their age old distribution routes and exposure to the readership they have dominated in the market for years, otherwise, why would the greats of Self Pub be bothering to sign up for print distribution only contracts? They recognize it is easier to travel a well-rutted road in a wagon with a driver, that to rut a new road all on their own. It's just too bad the big companies we're not willing to open up even further to this idea. Though, maybe this is just the beginning we are seeing, and they will?


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

Kat S said:


> If you're uploading a mobi or epub and have the cover internally, Amazon will remove it and replace it with whatever you've uploaded. For calibre files generated from html, you need to have a cover internally or zon will reject them. Not sure about the Calibre docx converter which is a huge upgrade from the older html one.


Well dang it there goes my reputation.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> There is; however, something to be said for having access to the muscle those big (what is it now 4 or 3) publishers have to offer ie: access to their age old distribution routes and exposure to the readership they have dominated in the market for years, otherwise, why would the greats of Self Pub be bothering to sign up for print distribution only contracts? They recognize it is easier to travel a well-rutted road in a wagon with a driver, that to rut a new road all on their own. It's just too bad the big companies we're not willing to open up even further to this idea. Though, maybe this is just the beginning we are seeing, and they will?


When you're with a major publisher, you're always one screw up away from losing all future contracts. This includes major bestsellers, never mind the midlisters. I've known plenty of people who thought their careers were bulletproof who have gone down in flames because of nothing to do with them or their books.

I'm just TIRED of it. I'm tired of the Russian roulette. I'm tired of the incompetence. I'm tired of the contempt and disrespect routinely shown to writers.

People still take trad deals because no one's shown them another way yet to reach such a large audience--even though they make their REAL money on their self-published work. Learning the printing/warehousing/distribution/sales world is a steep curve for most people.

If I sell well enough, I am going to be the first to do it. I HAVE had the visibility, and I like that. But I don't want to play games with New York. I'm tired of the unprofessionalism of the large publishers. I don't care if they promise the moon--I know all too well that they're happy to break the terms of their own contracts as a matter of course. So I want the visibility, but I don't want THEM.

So I know how the backend of the publishing world works. And I already have an enthusiastic sales rep in place with a track history and all the contacts needed--though she asked, hearing my plan, what I needed her for, since she thought I could do it on my own just fine, given my strategy and what I know. 

If this works, there will be NOTHING a major house can offer us any more except financing. NOTHING.

If you like the idea of someone else experimenting with a fat chunk of change to see if we can make a new business model work, root for my BBW werewolf serial to do really, really well. LOL. If I get the cash with it, it's going to be my test case.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

vmblack said:


> When you're with a major publisher, you're always one screw up away from losing all future contracts. This includes major bestsellers, never mind the midlisters. I've known plenty of people who thought their careers were bulletproof who have gone down in flames because of nothing to do with them or their books.
> 
> I'm just TIRED of it. I'm tired of the Russian roulette. I'm tired of the incompetence. I'm tired of the contempt and disrespect routinely shown to writers.
> 
> ...


Suggestion:

If you succeed at this, then you will be flooded with queries. Tell them all in a blanket statement to read these boards and get themselves into Amazon's top 100, and then they will have your attention.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vmblack said:


> When you're with a major publisher, you're always one screw up away from losing all future contracts. This includes major bestsellers, never mind the midlisters. I've known plenty of people who thought their careers were bulletproof who have gone down in flames because of nothing to do with them or their books.
> 
> I'm just TIRED of it. I'm tired of the Russian roulette. I'm tired of the incompetence. I'm tired of the contempt and disrespect routinely shown to writers.
> 
> ...


YOU GO GIRL! And keep me abreast of your progress!!! WHO HOO!!! I wish you all the best. See, though, you have that "back end of publishing" knowledge to work with.  Wishing you SUCCESS! Then you can teach us all!


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## RN_Wright (Jan 7, 2014)

Since you're farther along in the promotion end than I am, I have no business giving advice. 
And there is no "but."
Just wanted to compliment you and the generous commenters on this valuable thread. My own book has been a total do-it-yourself project from the cover to creating the MOBI file for Kindle. The works in the collection span forty years and were written as sanity savers during some rather dark times. The new book I'm working on is coming from a more pleasant place and is a lot more fun to write. Best of luck in your endeavors.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

RN_Wright said:


> Since you're farther along in the promotion end than I am, I have no business giving advice.
> And there is no "but."
> Just wanted to compliment you and the generous commenters on this valuable thread. My own book has been a total do-it-yourself project from the cover to creating the MOBI file for Kindle. The works in the collection span forty years and were written as sanity savers during some rather dark times. The new book I'm working on is coming from a more pleasant place and is a lot more fun to write. Best of luck in your endeavors.


To you as well!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

EC said:


> OP - I just looked at you're sample. Okay, sorry to say this - drop the dedication. People read the sample to get a feel for the book - if you really need to dedicate the book, do it at the end.
> 
> I would even re-name the prologue more cleverly - many readers, including myself, detest prologues.
> 
> ...


No abuse at all, but I just have to civilly disagree with you.  As a reader, I don't mind dedications or prologues at all. The only thing that can turn me off in a sample is bad writing or formatting. I suppose really ridiculously long front matter might annoy me, too. But I'm fine with prologues and dedications as long as the prologue doesn't suck.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Jackie,

I have no advice that hasn't been said already. I just want to send you a hug: ~hug~

...and say, "This too shall pass."

~L.L.

P.S. I have a prologue and a sappy dedication.


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## Daniel Dennis (Mar 3, 2014)

EC said:


> OP - I just looked at you're sample. Okay, sorry to say this - drop the dedication. People read the sample to get a feel for the book - if you really need to dedicate the book, do it at the end.
> 
> I would even re-name the prologue more cleverly - many readers, including myself, detest prologues.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm alone in this, but whenever I start reading a book, regardless of where the eBook starts me, I take it all the way to the front. I look over the cover and then go through the front matter. I enjoy reading the dedications. They're usually short and right to the point and often help humanize the author as more than a name on the cover. But I will say I don't enjoy reading a prologue. I just think if the story isn't capable of explaining the back story then it can't possibly be worth reading. Prefaces I'm wishy-washy on. I wrote one for my permafree because it was just weighing on me to do so. But if it wasn't a free book it would be back matter because there's only so much real estate in a sample.

Sent from the back of a white CIA van using Tapatalk. Please help!


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## Guest (May 5, 2014)

So some readers don't like Prologues. Is that a genre thing, or are we talking 2014's reader in general? I have to admit, I haven't written a prologue in a very long time, maybe more than ten years. But I think that's just because the stories I've been writing haven't called for one. There might be Prologues out there that are backstory dumping, but I don't think that is their at the heart purpose. Sometimes the Prologue can be an effective teaser before the beginning of the story. A flash forward or flash back likewise. There has to be some element to it that underlines it apart from the original story, but that doesn't have to mean a background dump. 

Readers are so superficial that they see an author's dedication and they can't be bothered scrolling down the sample to chapter one? Maybe I'm the sucker, but I have a little more faith in people than that. Just imagine your best friend walking up to you and saying 'Did you read such and such book? It's really good.' And you're like, 'I was going to. But the author had a dedication there and I couldn't be bothered reading past it.'

yeah...


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Ah - you see, now starts the eternal battle of internet forums.  It doesn't matter what you and I think, it matters how the reader reacts. I've pointed out that I don't like to open up ebooks and by immediately confronted by a dedication. 

I am not alone in this. 

I then point out that I detest prologues - you know, it may even be the word "prologue," that I detest, never mind the actual content.

I am far from alone in detesting prologues. 

Now - I take the point that a dedication can humanize an author - I have never opened a book and refused to continue because there was no dedication in it.  In print copy, I skip right by the flyleaf where they tend to dwell, but on ebooks? 

Man, I open the sample and there they are, right below my nose and they get my hackles up. They are a self-indulgence slap bang in the front of prime selling real estate. We newbie authors can't afford this self indulgence - and I lay you odds that the people that the dedications are made to would rather you sold the book and dedicated at the end than vice-versa. 

Samples are for selling. Full stop.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

EC said:


> Man, I open the sample and there they are, right below my nose and they get my hackles up. They are a self-indulgence slap bang in the front of prime selling real estate. We newbie authors can't afford this self indulgence - and I lay you odds that the people that the dedications are made to would rather you sold the book and dedicated at the end than vice-versa.


And I think dedications in the front make the author seem more considerate. Like it's not just about him/her. Makes them humble enough to acknowledge that there were people who helped them along the way. The e-books that jump right to the text make me feel like the author is desperate, too insecure to let the reader decide whether or not to read the dedications, too insecure to trust that the first few paragraphs of the sample are interesting enough to suck the reader in. Makes it feel like the author is speaking as fast as possible on an elevator to try to hook the buyer. Makes the author feel like a peddler on the street. I'm not saying that's the case for anyone else. It's just the impression I get. It's all in the eye of the beholder.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

It's the first time I've ever heard someone say that actually getting what you expect - i.e. reading the story - is a potential negative. 

"Wow, this author must be really desperate, he actually wants me to read what he wrote!"

Are you really going to stand by that position?


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## Nancy Warren (May 5, 2014)

I have come from a trad background and really, really like a lot of things about it. Mainly, the author writes the book. The publisher (theoretically) does the rest. It's the rare bird who is exceptional at both writing and marketing. I love writing indie books, I really do, but I had no idea how much hard work there is -- the bulk of the work has nothing to do with the writing. For the op, I feel your pain.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

EC said:


> It's the first time I've ever heard someone say that actually getting what you expect - i.e. reading the story - is a potential negative.
> 
> "Wow, this author must be really desperate, he actually wants me to read what he wrote!"
> 
> Are you really going to stand by that position?


Yeah. Nobody's gonna think that just because an author put some dedications in the front of the book, he's less eager for the reader to read it. Readers have seen front matter up there for centuries. They expect it. And it may not be a "negative", but it says something about an author who does acknowledge the wife who worked extra hard so he could go part time to write, or the mother who stayed up reading to him. It's part of the brand. I think the author who skips over that, or sees it as unimportant risks giving the impression of appearing selfish. It's about brand.

There's no DOWNSIDE to including front matter, unless an author fears that the smaller sample doesn't get a a good enough part of the story to hook the reader, in which case, the author probably started the story too early. The front matter is the norm. It's expected. Nobody's gonna toss aside a book because it has front matter. But there is a downside to not including it. It departs from the norms of publishing, and thus may give the impression of amateurism. Like I said above, it might make the author seem desperate or selfish.

I understand why people do it. I would just think carefully about it.


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## Guest (May 5, 2014)

Well said, vrabinec


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Daniel Dennis said:


> Maybe I'm alone in this, but whenever I start reading a book, regardless of where the eBook starts me, I take it all the way to the front. I look over the cover and then go through the front matter. I enjoy reading the dedications. They're usually short and right to the point and often help humanize the author as more than a name on the cover. But I will say I don't enjoy reading a prologue. I just think if the story isn't capable of explaining the back story then it can't possibly be worth reading. Prefaces I'm wishy-washy on. I wrote one for my permafree because it was just weighing on me to do so. But if it wasn't a free book it would be back matter because there's only so much real estate in a sample.
> 
> Sent from the back of a white CIA van using Tapatalk. Please help!


HA! I'm with you. I NORMALLY hate prologues, but I think if you read along you will find that mine is not delivery of backstory, rather filled with action, and a very important scene - a sneak peek if you will - into the life of my character before the destruction of her world that sets the tone for the very fast paced adventure that follows. I world with a renowned story developer on this book and it was her wise decision to begin the book in this way. I wish there were another words to use than Prologue, because you are all right, normally, it implies that the author is going to drone on about some historical fact to help prop up their setting or story. Upon my agents advice, it became Prologue...I had it simply labelled 'The Happening' prior...maybe I should return to that?


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Nancy Warren said:


> I have come from a trad background and really, really like a lot of things about it. Mainly, the author writes the book. The publisher (theoretically) does the rest. It's the rare bird who is exceptional at both writing and marketing. I love writing indie books, I really do, but I had no idea how much hard work there is -- the bulk of the work has nothing to do with the writing. For the op, I feel your pain.


You're DEAD right about the theoretical nature of the publisher's marketing effort. You only need to read author blogs all over the net or threads here to know that it WILL be YOU as author who pushes your book and does the lion's share of marketing regardless.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> So some readers don't like Prologues. Is that a genre thing, or are we talking 2014's reader in general? I have to admit, I haven't written a prologue in a very long time, maybe more than ten years. But I think that's just because the stories I've been writing haven't called for one. There might be Prologues out there that are backstory dumping, but I don't think that is their at the heart purpose. Sometimes the Prologue can be an effective teaser before the beginning of the story. A flash forward or flash back likewise. There has to be some element to it that underlines it apart from the original story, but that doesn't have to mean a background dump.
> 
> Readers are so superficial that they see an author's dedication and they can't be bothered scrolling down the sample to chapter one? Maybe I'm the sucker, but I have a little more faith in people than that. Just imagine your best friend walking up to you and saying 'Did you read such and such book? It's really good.' And you're like, 'I was going to. But the author had a dedication there and I couldn't be bothered reading past it.'
> 
> yeah...


I LOVE THIS. True. True. and True.
And yes, the prologue here, has a very distinct purpose. As you say, it has 'element(s) to it that underlines it apart from the original story.'


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Suggestion:
> 
> If you succeed at this, then you will be flooded with queries. Tell them all in a blanket statement to read these boards and get themselves into Amazon's top 100, and then they will have your attention.


I will work with the sales rep to develop guidelines for acceptance that will allow her to choose proven winners only.  It will be her business and her money doing the backend, not mine. I want to write, not be a publisher, which is part of the reason I sought her out.

That's also why I'm not sharing her name. IF this works, we'll figure out how to make something streamlined and profitable for her.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Yeah. Nobody's gonna think that just because an author put some dedications in the front of the book, he's less eager for the reader to read it. Readers have seen front matter up there for centuries. They expect it. And it may not be a "negative", but it says something about an author who does acknowledge the wife who worked extra hard so he could go part time to write, or the mother who stayed up reading to him. It's part of the brand. I think the author who skips over that, or sees it as unimportant risks giving the impression of appearing selfish. It's about brand.
> 
> There's no DOWNSIDE to including front matter, unless an author fears that the smaller sample doesn't get a a good enough part of the story to hook the reader, in which case, the author probably started the story too early. The front matter is the norm. It's expected. Nobody's gonna toss aside a book because it has front matter. But there is a downside to not including it. It departs from the norms of publishing, and thus may give the impression of amateurism. Like I said above, it might make the author seem desperate or selfish.
> 
> I understand why people do it. I would just think carefully about it.


There is a downside to including front-matter. It's a barrier to selling.

This is where ego meets reality - people so determined to pump out irrelevant text they dance all over the selling real estate with muddy feet. Then wonder why they're not selling well.

The kindle sample is for selling - nothing else.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

ps I don't want to embarrass the author by linking to it - I opened a short story sample yesterday and by the time I read the title, copyright, the dedication and worthless pre-blurb I didn't even get to read a single line of the story. 

Laughable.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

EC said:


> ps I don't want to embarrass the author by linking to it - I opened a short story sample yesterday and by the time I read the title, copyright, the dedication and worthless pre-blurb I didn't even get to read a single line of the story.
> 
> Laughable.


You do have a point. The shorter the book, the less front matter one should have. I think I have sampled the same book.
A 100 page book has roughly 10 pages of sample. A 300 page book has 30.
A 30 page book has 3. 
Just a little food for thought.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> You do have a point. The shorter the book, the less front matter one should have. I think I have sampled the same book.
> A 100 page book has roughly 10 pages of sample. A 300 page book has 30.
> A 30 page book has 3.
> Just a little food for thought.


Yup - I know I may be coming across quite aggressively on this point - it is a serious point, though.

To get your book found is hard enough,

To have someone pick it out from the competition that is listed beside it harder still,

To persuade someone to actually click on the sample is an achievement,

And to then hit them with irrelevant text is pathetic, ridiculous, and self-indulgent.

This is where print and ebooks differ. I don't think I've ever read through the chapter list on a print fictional book - I know that I have never in my life went looking to find the copyright info, and I've never seen a dedication printed right above chapter 1.

Come on - ebooks are not set up for this. Get rid of everything you can and get to the story, and hook the reader into the only thing that matters - actually buying your book.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> And I think dedications in the front make the author seem more considerate. Like it's not just about him/her. Makes them humble enough to acknowledge that there were people who helped them along the way. The e-books that jump right to the text make me feel like the author is desperate, too insecure to let the reader decide whether or not to read the dedications, too insecure to trust that the first few paragraphs of the sample are interesting enough to suck the reader in. Makes it feel like the author is speaking as fast as possible on an elevator to try to hook the buyer. Makes the author feel like a peddler on the street. I'm not saying that's the case for anyone else. It's just the impression I get. It's all in the eye of the beholder.


I'm with you, if I lose a sale or two over taking a paragraph to honour my dead father, and acknowledging my brother who on his quest to solve epilepsy now lives with debilitating Parkinson's...so be it.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Nancy Warren said:


> I have come from a trad background and really, really like a lot of things about it. Mainly, the author writes the book. The publisher (theoretically) does the rest. It's the rare bird who is exceptional at both writing and marketing. I love writing indie books, I really do, but I had no idea how much hard work there is -- the bulk of the work has nothing to do with the writing. For the op, I feel your pain.


True Dat


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I differ from EC on one thing.  I am inclined to look at copyright dates but that is in hardcover only and usually in older books.  One of my many hobbies is collecting cookbooks but anymore that goes in spurts.


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## Steve W. (Feb 23, 2011)

I honestly can't imagine being put off by a copyright or dedication in an eBook. That said, fair point about short stories that are only 30 pages. But a book that is +300 pages, there are plenty of pages in the sample after the front matter to make a decision. I would be put off if an author seemed to try to mislead me by adding 10 chapters of their next book into the back of their short story, as a way to make me think I was buying a novel. But I think that's rare. Otherwise, I LOVE sample chapters of the next book. But just 10 or so pages is sufficient. I also love author Q&As about the book I just read.  I mention all that just to illustrate the fact that less front matter and back matter is not a universal request from readers.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm not buying the "valuable real estate" argument against dedications. The sample is 10% of the book. For my book, that makes it 9,990 words. My dedication is six words long. That's a negligible portion of the sample. And what's relevant to one reader is not to another. Since we don't have any meaningful  data on the question of dedications, just a bunch of individual responses and anecdotes, it seems silly to present the issue as a you're-making-a-ghastly-mistake-if-you-don't-do-it-my-way sort of thing.

I'm with vrab: think in terms of crafting a nice overall sample for potential buyers. If your book is very short, and you need to move front matter to the back in order to get a meaningful sample, do that. In contrast, if somewhat longer front matter would  make your sample end at the perfect spot, you can experiment with lengthening it. If a moving dedication would work with your book's subject matter (it's not "sappy," L.L.!), then write one. If your prologue passes muster with tough beta-readers, then it's probably a net gain, even if it turns off some readers.

These are not issues with black-and-white answers. They require careful, informed balancing of pros and cons, and a recognition that no one way of doing things will please everyone.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Daniel Dennis said:


> I just think if the story isn't capable of explaining the back story then it can't possibly be worth reading.


Oh, I don't know about that. My next novel has a prologue in which a dude gets shot through BOTH HANDS with arrows. Bonus: _that actually happened._ History!!

My last novel has a prologue in which the mystery of what the heck happened to that one character who disappeared in the prior novel is explained. I'm sure readers wouldn't want to miss out on that. It's a pretty intense scene, too. I didn't label it a chapter because the events of that one scene take place so far outside the timeline of the rest of that novel, yet it's crucial to know what happened to her in order to understand the events and motives of the characters in the remainder of the story. And because readers really wanted to know.

Seems like if you're just assuming that any book with a prologue is sloppily written, you're going to miss out on a lot of really good books. And a lot of really fascinating and entertaining prologues.



> Prefaces I'm wishy-washy on. I wrote one for my permafree because it was just weighing on me to do so.


How is a preface so dissimilar to a prologue? One is couched as story/fiction and another is couched as commentary/nonfiction but both are preparing the reader for the story ahead.

However, I will say that I learned long ago to skip over the interminable and pointless prologues in The Wheel of Time series. They never had any bearing on the actual plot and the characters used in the prologues never surfaced again in any of the stories. Fortunately not all prologues are Wheel of Time-ers. Eventually I got smart and learned to skip over all the rest of the Wheel of Time books I hadn't yet read, as they became just as pointless and unending as their prologues.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

EC said:


> We newbie authors can't afford this self indulgence -


*shrug* Dedications and prologues aren't hurting my sales any. But then, I'm building my business on writing d*mn good books, trusting that they'll attract readers because they're d*mn good, and not fretting if I drive off one or two because they're too curmudgeonly to wade through an entire two extra finger-swipes to get past very minimal front matter (that most readers actually enjoy.)



> and I lay you odds that the people that the dedications are made to would rather you sold the book and dedicated at the end than vice-versa.


My husband asked me to dedicate the next book to a friend of ours who had recently passed away, instead of to him as I usually do, so he certainly cares about dedications.



> Samples are for selling. Full stop.


A good book sells better and steadier than an anxiously crafted sample. No matter what its front matter is like.

You're worrying about the wrong stuff.

ETA: Just to bolster Vrabinec's point about readers expecting at last some front matter, which I wholeheartedly agree with, I recently bought a book that opened right on the first page of the story. Not even a table of contents to clue me in to whether there was a historical note at the back of the book (historical notes are expected in historical fiction) or to let me know where I could find more from this author. I actually found it a very abrupt and annoying start to the book; I didn't like it. I believe I squawked a little to find that I was just being hit with BOOK right off the bat.

So yes, I am throwing my hat into the ring on the side of the guys who say that zero front matter can indeed be a drawback. It's just not making for a "normal" reading experience.

Fortunately for this book, it's a good one. Otherwise I might have stopped reading after the first couple of paragraphs because I started the book with such a bad taste in my mouth. So...there you go. Make of it what you will.

As for the "unnecessary blurbs" in the front matter, there's a very good reason why authors in many super-popular genres do that. Readers in some of the higher volume genres (romance, for example) tend to buy books in gluts, loading up on a dozen or so at a time and then reading them later. Having a blurb in the front matter reminds the reader what this book is about and why she bought it, which is handy if you're a reader who goes through twenty or thirty books a month, and wise if you're an author in such a genre...because which of her monthly binge-purchases do you think that kind of high-volume reader is likely to actually read all the way through (and which author will she go on to buy more from) -- a book that reminds her why she was so interested in it a month ago when she bought it, or a book that just flops open to the start of a story she's not even sure she wants to read anymore? Hmmmm. Worth thinking about, yes?


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

So...I loved it when this thread was all about sharing information about real time data of new to mid list writers, versus the glut of get-rich-quick hype out there, and tips on how to understand and better navigate Amazon categories and algorithms and such for optimum visibility and placement of your book! Shall we get back to those kinds of topics?


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> So...I loved it when this thread was all about sharing information about real time data of new to mid list writers, versus the glut of get-rich-quick hype out there, and tips on how to understand and better navigate Amazon categories and algorithms and such for optimum visibility and placement of your book! Shall we get back to those kinds of topics?


What else do you want to discuss?


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wansit said:


> What else do you want to discuss?


Nothing, in particular. The thread just felt like it took a bit of an ugly turn, I was just trying to get it back on a happier topic, that's all.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> *shrug* Dedications and prologues aren't hurting my sales any. But then, I'm building my business on writing d*mn good books, trusting that they'll attract readers because they're d*mn good, and not fretting if I drive off one or two because they're too curmudgeonly to wade through an entire two extra finger-swipes to get past very minimal front matter (that most readers actually enjoy.)
> 
> My husband asked me to dedicate the next book to a friend of ours who had recently passed away, instead of to him as I usually do, so he certainly cares about dedications.
> 
> ...


I happen to really love this...(smile)

"*shrug* Dedications and prologues aren't hurting my sales any. But then, I'm building my business on writing d*mn good books, trusting that they'll attract readers because they're d*mn good, and not fretting if I drive off one or two because they're too curmudgeonly to wade through an entire two extra finger-swipes to get past very minimal front matter (that most readers actually enjoy.)"


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I was on a blog yesterday.  It was talking about literacy.  I commented on what a reader wants.  I think what I said is worth repeating here.  I am paraphrasing myself.
''Give me a good book and I will be your slave for life or at least keep you in ''chocolate''.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> I was on a blog yesterday. It was talking about literacy. I commented on what a reader wants. I think what I said is worth repeating here. I am paraphrasing myself.
> ''Give me a good book and I will be your slave for life or at least keep you in ''chocolate''.


I wish there were a like button on here!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Jackie it was not your book since chapter 1 starts at 35% of the sample.
> PS love the elephant. And your book is not short.


Oh, I misread the comment, and I've deleted that post...whoops!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Oh, I misread the comment, and I've deleted that post...whoops!


deleted my post because without your post it makes no sense. Though do love the elephant.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> deleted my post because without your post it makes no sense. Though do love the elephant.


I'm glad you do!!! I love him too!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Someone suggested I state what topic I'd like to talk about. So...here's one...I'd LOVE to hear more about some real time sales figures from Indies starting out, that of course, did not have the good fortune to sell gangbusters out of the gates (though those are interesting, too!) I'd love to know how long (months/books) it took people to see an up-swing, and then how much longer it too for that to sort of start to stick (in months/how many books) and how they sustained sales...
(I'm assuming everyone writes a quality, intriguing book here, and it's not due to perfecting craft necessarily, though we all know we get better as we write   )

There's been a lot of talk about the 5 book threshold...I also wonder about the 3 book one. Also, I wonder about people who are not writing series but writing in the same genre...does it still work like a funnel for you...for instance, writing a bunch of stand alone contemp romances, are you still able to hook the readers into reading, despite the character changes? Or genre switching writers, how does it work for you?


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## sstroble (Dec 16, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> Oh, I don't know about that. My next novel has a prologue in which a dude gets shot through BOTH HANDS with arrows. Bonus: _that actually happened._ History!!


Really like writing historical fiction but the research is difficult because I really want to find factoids like the one you mentioned above. Where did you find the reference to him getting shot through both hands with arrows? (My guess is he was using them to shield the rest of his body.)


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## writejenwrite (Feb 25, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Someone suggested I state what topic I'd like to talk about. So...here's one...I'd LOVE to hear more about some real time sales figures from Indies starting out, that of course, did not have the good fortune to sell gangbusters out of the gates (though those are interesting, too!) I'd love to know how long (months/books) it took people to see an up-swing, and then how much longer it too for that to sort of start to stick (in months/how many books) and how they sustained sales...
> (I'm assuming everyone writes a quality, intriguing book here, and it's not due to perfecting craft necessarily, though we all know we get better as we write  )


In terms of Kindle sales, I'm at a whopping 108. Overall (including print sales, as well as sales from Smashwords, B&N, Kobo), I'm at 205.

My book was released in late October, so this is me six months later. I keep waiting for the trajectory change--hopefully it comes soon .


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## Daniel Dennis (Mar 3, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Seems like if you're just assuming that any book with a prologue is sloppily written, you're going to miss out on a lot of really good books. And a lot of really fascinating and entertaining prologues.


No, not assuming they're sloppily written. I just can't think of any books where I didn't read a prologue and felt lost. The last book I read where I skipped the prologue was Dan Brown's Inferno.



ElHawk said:


> How is a preface so dissimilar to a prologue? One is couched as story/fiction and another is couched as commentary/nonfiction but both are preparing the reader for the story ahead.


I should add, that the only reason I put the preface in was the book was permafree. I figure if the reader is getting it for free then they can live with the preface outlining the effect my now-deceased instructor had on me. For my other novels, I would have loved to put in a tidbit about why I wrote the first book (it was a Christmas gift for my wife, who later encouraged me to publish it) but if they're paying, I don't want to use that front matter space. But I have considered writing one for back matter. But I wouldn't be able to call it a preface...


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## Oscar Arias (Dec 17, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Someone suggested I state what topic I'd like to talk about. So...here's one...I'd LOVE to hear more about some real time sales figures from Indies starting out, that of course, did not have the good fortune to sell gangbusters out of the gates (though those are interesting, too!) I'd love to know how long (months/books) it took people to see an up-swing, and then how much longer it too for that to sort of start to stick (in months/how many books) and how they sustained sales...
> (I'm assuming everyone writes a quality, intriguing book here, and it's not due to perfecting craft necessarily, though we all know we get better as we write  )
> 
> There's been a lot of talk about the 5 book threshold...I also wonder about the 3 book one. Also, I wonder about people who are not writing series but writing in the same genre...does it still work like a funnel for you...for instance, writing a bunch of stand alone contemp romances, are you still able to hook the readers into reading, despite the character changes? Or genre switching writers, how does it work for you?


Hmmm... Genre switching... I probably would have done better if I kept all of my 5 releases in children's history (non-fiction), instead of jumping around to a health topic and a book on atheism.

I wouldn't suggest genre switching. 
I am fairly certain that my children's book on George Washington had ZERO crossover sales with the sleep apnea book I wrote (Ok, except for my mom). 

Perhaps the genre switching you have in mind isn't that severe! 

So because of that, I can't claim I've reached the 5 book threshold, as I haven't written 5 books on the same topic yet.

I launched my first book was on my birthday (February 24th). I sold 4 copies that month, in March I sold 31 copies, and April I've sold 47 copies. Doesn't seem like a lot (it's not), but I have a slightly different business model than most "big fiction" authors like yourself.  So I'm seeing an "upswing", but I think my new releases cause the upswing as opposed to anything else.

I'm just going to keep watching that monthly sales meter and keep making it go up by producing more books. (I have 2 nearly finished and 2 more in early drafts).


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## nicho (Aug 12, 2013)

Hi Everyone and jackiegp, it took me while to read the thread and all of the replies and a lot of them have a current theme running through them, maybe you should be approaching your writing and conducting your research first into what the customer wants but before that if selling within kindle research the categories and best seller sections to find out just difficult it would be to do well in the genre before you even write a word. I only write in series of 5 books and they are all linked to each other in each book.
What you will find is that you may have to write quite a few books before one hits but when it does you will also benefit from an upsurge in sales of your other books as your customers want to read more.
You should also be building a mailing list of readers from your genre and stay in touch with them, ask them what they want to read next and provide it if you as you will have a ready made buying customer.
I would finish by saying l have only scraped the surface with these comments but l am certain that it is the marketing research that comes first then the writing, like it or not and its the same offline as it is online.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

How to make money in the book industry.  Treat the selling part like a business.  For more information on this idea, please read blakebooks posts on here (kboards).  Yes, he knows I am mentioning him here.  I asked him before posting this.  You will get some fantastic information.  
He went from nothing to successful in less than 3 years.  
Ok now I am back to normal and not sitting on my hands.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Someone suggested I state what topic I'd like to talk about. So...here's one...I'd LOVE to hear more about some real time sales figures from Indies starting out, that of course, did not have the good fortune to sell gangbusters out of the gates (though those are interesting, too!) I'd love to know how long (months/books) it took people to see an up-swing, and then how much longer it too for that to sort of start to stick (in months/how many books) and how they sustained sales...
> (I'm assuming everyone writes a quality, intriguing book here, and it's not due to perfecting craft necessarily, though we all know we get better as we write  )
> 
> There's been a lot of talk about the 5 book threshold...I also wonder about the 3 book one. Also, I wonder about people who are not writing series but writing in the same genre...does it still work like a funnel for you...for instance, writing a bunch of stand alone contemp romances, are you still able to hook the readers into reading, despite the character changes? Or genre switching writers, how does it work for you?


Read this. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,134236.0.html

Here's Blake's thread that cinisajoy mentioned - http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,150526.0.html

I followed his, Elle's, Robert's and SMR's advice. I published my first book in November 2012. I went from selling 12 books a month to over 6,000 a month. Things took off with my third book in November 2013 and the Bookbub right after that. Now I'm going back to drafting my next book.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wansit said:


> Read this. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,134236.0.html
> 
> Here's Blake's thread that cinisajoy mentioned - http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,150526.0.html
> 
> I followed his, Elle's, Robert's and SMR's advice. I published my first book in November 2012. I went from selling 12 books a month to over 6,000 a month. Things took off with my third book in November 2013 and the Bookbub right after that. Now I'm going back to drafting my next book.


You sell 6000 books a month... Falls down. Wow. (reading posts...)


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## Steve W. (Feb 23, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> He went from nothing to successful in less than 3 years.


Ouch. I'm sure he had some worth 4 years ago


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Steve W. said:


> Ouch. I'm sure he had some worth 4 years ago


Russell? No. He was worthless. Absolutely, utterly worthless. Beatle dung had more worth, because it could be used as fertilizer.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Russell? No. He was worthless. Absolutely, utterly worthless. Beatle dung had more worth, because it could be used as fertilizer.


HA!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Steve W. said:


> Ouch. I'm sure he had some worth 4 years ago


LMAO. Can we say foot in mouth up to well uh.
What I meant was he had no books out prior to 3 years ago. Dang tequila. Yep that sounds good to blame my foot in mouth on. Teach me to sit on my hands too huh.
Be sure and listen to his podcast with Simon too at Rocking Self Publishing.
Oh heck I give up. Not even gonna try for a foot extraction.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> LMAO. Can we say foot in mouth up to well uh.
> What I meant was he had no books out prior to 3 years ago. Dang tequila. Yep that sounds good to blame my foot in mouth on. Teach me to sit on my hands too huh.
> Be sure and listen to his podcast with Simon too at Rocking Self Publishing.
> Oh heck I give up. Not even gonna try for a foot extraction.


  Pretty sure he couldn't care less.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

The thing is, this way you'll only hear the success stories.

I started in January 2011, have 13 full-length novels out  (three series) and have never sold more than 1000 copies a month.  I'm perpetually hovering in the grey territory in the hundreds that so many people here suggest you grow out of very quickly. I'm enjoying myself, but very often in threads like these, I'm seeing people EXPECT thousands of sales. Seriously, in the vast majority of cases, that's just not going to happen. It's a hard slog.

Upthread, too, people suppose that 100 sales a month is the bottom of what you'd sell on one title... well, I got news for you: it might actually be the top.

If you put more books out, it's the best way you can insure yourself against poor months. It's the best way you can generate anything remotely like regular sales. And also put your book on as many venues as possible, because when Amazon slumps, B&N might pick up the slack, or Kobo, or Google Play. And you know all those venues that might make you $10 a month? Well, there may be some months that this is pretty much all you have.

Thankfully that hasn't happened to me yet, and people to who this happens usually stay very quiet, because these boards favour the successful, and it's very easy for people to feel intimidated to report their ten sales a month since 2010 when others are reporting thousands.

So there's that.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> The thing is, this way you'll only hear the success stories.
> 
> I started in January 2011, have 13 full-length novels out (three series) and have never sold more than 1000 copies a month. I'm perpetually hovering in the grey territory in the hundreds that so many people here suggest you grow out of very quickly. I'm enjoying myself, but very often in threads like these, I'm seeing people EXPECT thousands of sales. Seriously, in the vast majority of cases, that's just not going to happen. It's a hard slog.
> 
> ...


Thanks Patti...loving all the truth that is being shared here!


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

vrabinec said:


> Pretty sure he couldn't care less.


Oh thank you so much for saying that correctly, it drives me nuts when people say they could care less and they really mean the exact opposite.


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## AJHolm (Feb 18, 2014)

Chad Winters said:


> Oh thank you so much for saying that correctly, it drives me nuts when people say they could care less and they really mean the exact opposite.


I was just about to post the exact same thing. Lol.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

One last note on front matter: without it, a full-length book just doesn't look like a book to me. A short story, I can see starting right into it, and I intend to go back through my shorts to see if that's the case.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

I've been following some of the thread but not all, so sorry if this was mentioned before, but have you tried a BookBub ad yet?

I've been checking out your ranking occasionally (yes, I'm so obsessive I even check other people's rankings!  ) and I feel like you're on an uptick in sales. You may just need that little push to get things going, and BookBub usually offers a push, though how long it lasts varies.


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

Write another book. Then write another one. And after that? Write another book.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Someone suggested I state what topic I'd like to talk about. So...here's one...I'd LOVE to hear more about some real time sales figures from Indies starting out, that of course, did not have the good fortune to sell gangbusters out of the gates (though those are interesting, too!) I'd love to know how long (months/books) it took people to see an up-swing, and then how much longer it too for that to sort of start to stick (in months/how many books) and how they sustained sales...
> (I'm assuming everyone writes a quality, intriguing book here, and it's not due to perfecting craft necessarily, though we all know we get better as we write  )
> 
> There's been a lot of talk about the 5 book threshold...I also wonder about the 3 book one. Also, I wonder about people who are not writing series but writing in the same genre...does it still work like a funnel for you...for instance, writing a bunch of stand alone contemp romances, are you still able to hook the readers into reading, despite the character changes? Or genre switching writers, how does it work for you?


First book was released in October, 2013. 
Second one released in January, 2014. 
Third one released in April, 2014.
Current total Kindle sales of all three in the last 7 months is 6681, nearly half of which were in April. 
May is currently 400% ahead of April through the 5th. But, I only had two books out until 4/6. 
Of the two that were available both months, May is ahead of April by just over 200%.


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## Howietzer (Apr 18, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> LMAO. Can we say foot in mouth up to well uh.
> What I meant was he had no books out prior to 3 years ago. Dang tequila. Yep that sounds good to blame my foot in mouth on. Teach me to sit on my hands too huh.
> Be sure and listen to his podcast with Simon too at Rocking Self Publishing.
> Oh heck I give up. Not even gonna try for a foot extraction.


How about: That's all milk under the bridge that was spilt and we don't have to cry over... or is it, we forgot the milk and went under the bridge to find water... could you pass that bottle please.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Fel Beasley (Apr 1, 2014)

P.J. Post said:


> Patience - it's a long journey, enjoy the ride.


Great words! I need to keep this in mind. It's not just about the destination, but the journey.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> There's been a lot of talk about the 5 book threshold...I also wonder about the 3 book one. Also, I wonder about people who are not writing series but writing in the same genre...does it still work like a funnel for you...for instance, writing a bunch of stand alone contemp romances, are you still able to hook the readers into reading, despite the character changes? Or genre switching writers, how does it work for you?


I already mentioned my timeframe upthread, but I can add new information about multiple books! Of course, most of my books (certainly my best-selling ones) are part of a series so I can't comment intelligently on stand-alone success yet. I'm putting out my first stand-alone historical novel in a few weeks, though. I hope it sells well! We'll see...

Anyway, I saw my biggest increase in sales when my third book came out. By that point I expected that most of my sales would come from books 2 and 3, as I saw sell-through from people who'd already purchased the first book. But with Book 3, I actually saw a big increase in Book 1 as well! So getting three books out was a huge boon to my business. I followed up as quickly as possible with Book 4/final book in the series and the box set of all four books, which I sell for $9.99. The $9.99 pricepoint gives the first book and the last for free.

I then did two complete months with Book 1 set to permafree...that went great for me, seemed to drive a lot of sales to the series and particularly to the box set. Now the first book is at 99 cents just to see what difference it makes in sell-through (if any.)

I would say that three books was definitely the "lucky number" for my sales. Readers in my genre do tend to be hesitant to try out a series until they think it's complete or close to it, so that may have had something to do with it. They're also very inclined to read stand-alone books so I'm not anticipating a crummy book launch for the next one...but you never know!

Oh -- and you asked how people have sustained sales. A big part of it for me has been interacting with readers on Goodreads. A lot of authors don't like it there, but I've never had a problem and have met lots of wonderful friends, and caught the eyes of some influential book reviewers. If it's your kind of place, I highly recommend it! Networking with readers in a really effective, personal way is never a bad idea.


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## Guest (May 6, 2014)

I love your cover! And it looks like you are doing pretty good. Sometimes things just ebb and flow. Keep at it and put out more work


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Briteka said:


> I've been following some of the thread but not all, so sorry if this was mentioned before, but have you tried a BookBub ad yet?
> 
> I've been checking out your ranking occasionally (yes, I'm so obsessive I even check other people's rankings!  ) and I feel like you're on an uptick in sales. You may just need that little push to get things going, and BookBub usually offers a push, though how long it lasts varies.


Maybe do a Bookbub with just one book out if: 
you have at least 25 good reviews
and
you have a mailing list sign-up in the back
and 
the book is the first in a series. 
Maybe. If all those things are true.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Maybe do a Bookbub with just one book out if:
> you have at least 25 good reviews
> and
> you have a mailing list sign-up in the back
> ...


I just had a BookBub ad and didn't have any of the things you mention. The ad was a great success. It can happen.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I have a super duper special way to use prologues. I call them Chapter 1


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> The thing is, this way you'll only hear the success stories.
> 
> I started in January 2011, have 13 full-length novels out (three series) and have never sold more than 1000 copies a month. I'm perpetually hovering in the grey territory in the hundreds that so many people here suggest you grow out of very quickly. I'm enjoying myself, but very often in threads like these, I'm seeing people EXPECT thousands of sales. Seriously, in the vast majority of cases, that's just not going to happen. It's a hard slog.
> 
> ...


I think you'll agree that to sell 1000 copies a month in of itself is a fabulous achievement.


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## JeanetteRaleigh (Jan 1, 2013)

What people have said about having 7-10 books out sounds about right.  I started looking at New York Bestsellers and realized that most of the authors on that list had around 20 books to their name.  

Have you thought about a title change?  That is the only thing I can think of that might be holding you back aside from the backlist.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

I think your title is wonderful. I wouldn't change it.



Cherise Kelley said:


> Maybe do a Bookbub with just one book out if:
> you have at least 25 good reviews
> and
> you have a mailing list sign-up in the back
> ...


Also, you have more books out than just the one you put into the BB ad. And you have links to them at the end of the book you put up on BB.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> I already mentioned my timeframe upthread, but I can add new information about multiple books! Of course, most of my books (certainly my best-selling ones) are part of a series so I can't comment intelligently on stand-alone success yet. I'm putting out my first stand-alone historical novel in a few weeks, though. I hope it sells well! We'll see...
> 
> Anyway, I saw my biggest increase in sales when my third book came out. By that point I expected that most of my sales would come from books 2 and 3, as I saw sell-through from people who'd already purchased the first book. But with Book 3, I actually saw a big increase in Book 1 as well! So getting three books out was a huge boon to my business. I followed up as quickly as possible with Book 4/final book in the series and the box set of all four books, which I sell for $9.99. The $9.99 pricepoint gives the first book and the last for free.
> 
> ...


YOU are a fabulous wealth of info! This is the kind of concrete data I've been yearning for! Thanks so so much for all your sharing here! I have heard that readers are hesitant to take on a series until they see more books out in it as they don't trust the writer will continue. That is so strange to me, coming from the trad world, but I guess it makes sense where there are no contracts invested, writers could just move onto another interest and leave readers hanging! Thanks Again. You've been very wonderful!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

EC said:


> I think you'll agree that to sell 1000 copies a month in of itself is a fabulous achievement.


OH VERY TRUE!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Maybe do a Bookbub with just one book out if:
> you have at least 25 good reviews
> and
> you have a mailing list sign-up in the back
> ...


Hmmmmm, I applied for a book bub add with 23 reviews and I got turned down  Looks like I need to try that again!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> I think your title is wonderful. I wouldn't change it.
> 
> Also, you have more books out than just the one you put into the BB ad. And you have links to them at the end of the book you put up on BB.


YES Agreed! I think I need to finish my IF ONLY... series (as it is written and I am just polishing) and then finish book two of LUMIERE then try Book Bub again. That way I will have product for readers to explore. NOIR book two of LUMIERE, is a large undertaking though...so I might have to just be patient. I don't want to release it until I'm sure it is of the same quality as LUMIERE. No rushing...that will just spoil everything.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Ok...I just have to share. I got a wonderful surprise last night in my email box. Apparently this notice originally went to my JUNK mail so I didn't see it. Thank GOD they resent! Wonderful News. LUMIERE won the 2013 LYRA Award for Best Young Adult Category! YAY! Maybe this will help?!? Just had to share! https://www.facebook.com/BookstoreWithoutBorders


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Awesome!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> First book was released in October, 2013.
> Second one released in January, 2014.
> Third one released in April, 2014.
> Current total Kindle sales of all three in the last 7 months is 6681, nearly half of which were in April.
> ...


Wow, this amazes me. You're like a machine. Like clockwork getting those out. Good on you! I tend to re-write and commiserate and re-write again...lol Little bit longer process for me...lol But Something to aspire to for sure. And thanks again for sharing such solid numbers and figures to help me understand things!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

vmblack said:


> Awesome!


THANKS!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> The thing is, this way you'll only hear the success stories.
> 
> I started in January 2011, have 13 full-length novels out (three series) and have never sold more than 1000 copies a month. I'm perpetually hovering in the grey territory in the hundreds that so many people here suggest you grow out of very quickly. I'm enjoying myself, but very often in threads like these, I'm seeing people EXPECT thousands of sales. Seriously, in the vast majority of cases, that's just not going to happen. It's a hard slog.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks so much for sharing!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

jackiegp said:


> Ok...I just have to share. I got a wonderful surprise last night in my email box. Apparently this notice originally went to my JUNK mail so I didn't see it. Thank GOD they resent! Wonderful News. LUMIERE won the 2013 LYRA Award for Best Young Adult Category! YAY! Maybe this will help?!? Just had to share! https://www.facebook.com/BookstoreWithoutBorders


Congrats!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Oscar Arias said:


> Hmmm... Genre switching... I probably would have done better if I kept all of my 5 releases in children's history (non-fiction), instead of jumping around to a health topic and a book on atheism.
> 
> I wouldn't suggest genre switching.
> I am fairly certain that my children's book on George Washington had ZERO crossover sales with the sleep apnea book I wrote (Ok, except for my mom).
> ...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Congrats!


THANK YOU!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

nicho said:


> Hi Everyone and jackiegp, it took me while to read the thread and all of the replies and a lot of them have a current theme running through them, maybe you should be approaching your writing and conducting your research first into what the customer wants but before that if selling within kindle research the categories and best seller sections to find out just difficult it would be to do well in the genre before you even write a word. I only write in series of 5 books and they are all linked to each other in each book.
> What you will find is that you may have to write quite a few books before one hits but when it does you will also benefit from an upsurge in sales of your other books as your customers want to read more.
> 
> You should also be building a mailing list of readers from your genre and stay in touch with them, ask them what they want to read next and provide it if you as you will have a ready made buying customer.
> I would finish by saying l have only scraped the surface with these comments but l am certain that it is the marketing research that comes first then the writing, like it or not and its the same offline as it is online.


Thank you...yes, mailing list does sound important I'm seeing...and I have one going...just need to keep at it! Thanks!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Briteka said:


> I've been following some of the thread but not all, so sorry if this was mentioned before, but have you tried a BookBub ad yet?
> 
> I've been checking out your ranking occasionally (yes, I'm so obsessive I even check other people's rankings!  ) and I feel like you're on an uptick in sales. You may just need that little push to get things going, and BookBub usually offers a push, though how long it lasts varies.


Thanks yes, I have applied to BookBub, but they turned me away  BUT I will have to try again. I had 23 reviews at the time and felt that would be okay...but apparently it was not. But I will try again.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

P.J. Post said:


> Patience - it's a long journey, enjoy the ride.


Thanks and yes!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> YOU are a fabulous wealth of info! This is the kind of concrete data I've been yearning for! Thanks so so much for all your sharing here! I have heard that readers are hesitant to take on a series until they see more books out in it as they don't trust the writer will continue. That is so strange to me, coming from the trad world, but I guess it makes sense where there are no contracts invested, writers could just move onto another interest and leave readers hanging! Thanks Again. You've been very wonderful!


Here is the thing. Most trad books don't leave the ending off. There is closure and if you want to pick up the next book next year that is fine.
Several self pubs that say series leave a huge cliff hanger and no resolution. Next book out in May 2013. Note it is May 2014 and I am still waiting on the next book.
It is called we have been burned too many times because new author thinks I have this fantastic idea for a series. They put out book one, it doesn't sell as well as they thought it should so they don't bother with book 2.
Now I am pretty sure if John Grisham says his next book will be out in Jan 2015, it will be out in Jan 2015, barring a major disaster.
If Fanny Stilts puts her next book will be out in June 2014, there is no guarantee because she may change her mind, not sell like she thought she would or 1000 other excuses.
This is why readers don't buy book one's until the series is done or at least has several books.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Congrats on the award.  Just caught up with all your posts.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

Congrats on your award!!


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Congrats on the award. Now Borders Without Books who runs that award, aren't they that marketing club that charges new authors an arm and a leg for their many services?  I know I read something about them on the internet? Like you even pay them $10 for them to list your book?  I hope you didn't get too involved with them.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

jackz4000 said:


> Congrats on the award. Now Borders Without Books who runs that award, aren't they that marketing club that charges new authors an arm and a leg for their many services? I know I read something about them on the internet? Like you even pay them $10 for them to list your book? I hope you didn't get too involved with them.


No. No. I just entered their contest. I didn't list with them. It's Bookestore without Borders and I'm not sure about their prices, I just saw the contest and entered.  But thanks!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Here is the thing. Most trad books don't leave the ending off. There is closure and if you want to pick up the next book next year that is fine.
> Several self pubs that say series leave a huge cliff hanger and no resolution. Next book out in May 2013. Note it is May 2014 and I am still waiting on the next book.
> It is called we have been burned too many times because new author thinks I have this fantastic idea for a series. They put out book one, it doesn't sell as well as they thought it should so they don't bother with book 2.
> Now I am pretty sure if John Grisham says his next book will be out in Jan 2015, it will be out in Jan 2015, barring a major disaster.
> ...


Makes sense...I get it...thanks. I guess my mind doesn't work that way, so I would never do that. I LOVE my characters and my WORLD too much not to keep writing them!!! LOL And I think if I start a project, I'm going to finish it...but I can see where that would be a problem. Thanks


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Thanks THANKS so much everyone for the well wishes over the contest win! I'm super excited to be acknowledged and then again to be congratulated by each of you!!! (smiling, hell...I can't stop...small silver lining in the clouds for now!)


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> YOU are a fabulous wealth of info! This is the kind of concrete data I've been yearning for! Thanks so so much for all your sharing here! I have heard that readers are hesitant to take on a series until they see more books out in it as they don't trust the writer will continue. That is so strange to me, coming from the trad world, but I guess it makes sense where there are no contracts invested, writers could just move onto another interest and leave readers hanging! Thanks Again. You've been very wonderful!


You're welcome! I'm glad to help. I'm not some kind of huge-selling superstar so I'm happy that you're actually finding my modest information useful. 

Yes, there is a lot of retraining of the brain that has to occur when transitioning over from a trad-dominated world to an indie-rising world. That goes for everybody involved, including readers, and not just authors who have worked in tradpub before, but all authors. We've all experienced books and publishing in just one way before but now, with reader preferences dictating who succeeds, stuff gets a little...different. Not trickier or anything like that, but we all do have to adjust our thinking and expectations of what "success" looks like.

I'm not sure whether the series issue is a sticking point in all genres. I presume that in genres like fantasy, where series can be very long and involved and can take YEARS between volumes (George R. R. Martin, etc.) readers are probably more willing to start a series that isn't finished yet. In the traditional publishing landscape, multi-book series were RARE in historical fiction, so that group of readers has been conditioned to expect a neat wrap-up at the end of a book, not to have the story carry over to another volume. So it makes sense that they're more hesitant to commit if they don't know that they'll get their wrap-up fairly soon!

As for how things are in your genre, I really couldn't say. My knowledge doesn't extend very far beyond historical fiction!

This is why I find Goodreads so useful. The site can be a nightmare to use in terms of features, but you won't find a more active and enthusiastic community of readers anywhere in the world. It's great just to lurk there even if you don't want to participate, and read what people are saying about which books and which conventions in your genre.

ETA: Just saw your post about the award...fantastic! Congratulations!! Hopefully that will help spur more sales, too. Hold on, going to add more thoughts on another post in this thread below...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

jackiegp said:


> Makes sense...I get it...thanks. I guess my mind doesn't work that way, so I would never do that. I LOVE my characters and my WORLD too much not to keep writing them!!! LOL And I think if I start a project, I'm going to finish it...but I can see where that would be a problem. Thanks


You like projects. Come to my house. I have several I am working on. Though not books. It is still in my head. And I am glad you feel that way.
I see too many people that think I do it this way so everyone must do it this way. That is usually not the case.


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## sorcererseries (May 3, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Ok...I just have to share. I got a wonderful surprise last night in my email box. Apparently this notice originally went to my JUNK mail so I didn't see it. Thank GOD they resent! Wonderful News. LUMIERE won the 2013 LYRA Award for Best Young Adult Category! YAY! Maybe this will help?!? Just had to share! https://www.facebook.com/BookstoreWithoutBorders


Woop Woop Jackie. Fingers crossed it helps turn things around for you.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Wow, this amazes me. You're like a machine. Like clockwork getting those out. Good on you! I tend to re-write and commiserate and re-write again...lol Little bit longer process for me...lol But Something to aspire to for sure. And thanks again for sharing such solid numbers and figures to help me understand things!


I have a very flexible editor. Instead of sending her the whole thing when it's done, then waiting weeks for her to edit it, I send her two or three chapters at a time, which she edits and sends back. When I send her the last couple chapters, I only have to wait a day or two to get it back, and I've already made the edits on the previous parts. I also work on the cover and formatting as I go. From the time I type "The End" to the time it's published is usually only a couple of days.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> You're welcome! I'm glad to help. I'm not some kind of huge-selling superstar so I'm happy that you're actually finding my modest information useful.
> 
> Yes, there is a lot of retraining of the brain that has to occur when transitioning over from a trad-dominated world to an indie-rising world. That goes for everybody involved, including readers, and not just authors who have worked in tradpub before, but all authors. We've all experienced books and publishing in just one way before but now, with reader preferences dictating who succeeds, stuff gets a little...different. Not trickier or anything like that, but we all do have to adjust our thinking and expectations of what "success" looks like.
> 
> ...


Very true. Loads to learn. And YES, I like goodreads and find it a good source, but as you say, A NIGHTMARE to navigate. I've joined a few groups but find them a bit of a pain to keep up to, and I wish there were a better way to communicate with readers than there is. I started a thread on strong female leads, cause I love them, and then it got icky when my book came out, like I'd only written it to promote my book, which I had not. But someone made that leap and then others stopped posting. One girl wrote privately to me that she knew I'd been posting long before my book, but that it looked to others like a ploy. Everything I would talk about would look like a ploy then, cause I was talking about things I love to see in books (which are the things I write too) so I find it hard to participate without people getting the wrong impression. I'd love any advice on that you have!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> Here is the thing. Most trad books don't leave the ending off. There is closure and if you want to pick up the next book next year that is fine.


This is true, and also kind of not true (yay ambiguity!)

I think we tend to think about cliffhangers and closure in terms of the end of the book, but good craft really needs a tight pace throughout the book in order to feel satisfying. Not only your final scene, but the close of every single scene in every single chapter needs to have a satisfying wrap-up. What makes a story feel well-written is (among other things) juxtaposition between small satisfactions throughout (satisfying wrap-ups of scenes/chapters) combined with escalating tension throughout (the big problem to be solved continues to grow until the conflict finally reaches its climax.)

It is entirely possible to leave your biggest, overarching conflict unsolved at the end of a book, thus necessitating a new volume to continue the story, but to still provide a sensation of closure at the end of the book. If you've been writing all along with an eye to opening not just a book but every scene of every chapter with a "problem funnel" that sucks the reader into that scene/chapter and propels them rapidly to the end of the scene, and then provides some satisfying resolution to that opening problem, you'll not only already be an expert at tying up a loose end with a satisfying scene-closer, but you'll also have a very tight pace that draws your reader along the plot very fast and makes it really tough to put the book down. 

Traditional publishing isn't above ending series books on steep cliffhangers, either. I just finished The Serpent and the Pearl by Kate Quinn (from a Penguin imprint, if I remember correctly) and the book ends with one character picking up a vial of poison and deliberating whether to kill another character. So most definitely a cliff-hanger! And Kate Quinn's poor readers had to wait on a tradpub timescale for the next volume to find out what happened! ARrrgh!!!! Torture!



> Several self pubs that say series leave a huge cliff hanger and no resolution. Next book out in May 2013. Note it is May 2014 and I am still waiting on the next book.


Serials are a different beast from *a series of novels* and I don't know much about them, I'm afraid. However, my impression is that a good pace and good craft will always have an opening funnel that leads to a narrow space where SOME kind of initial conflict is dealt with in a satisfying way, and that should go for serials as much as for scenes within a novel. Just leaving a cliffhanger flapping in the wind without ANY kind of clue to resolution would be pretty frustrating for me as a reader.

But I really know nothing about it until/unless I try to write it, so take that with a huge grain of salt!



> This is why readers don't buy book one's until the series is done or at least has several books.


True, although I know a lot of readers of fantasy who refuse to start reading A Song of Ice and Fire until George finishes it! Too much risk he'll kick the bucket before he can wrap it up, I guess, and then they'll never get an ending. (That's short-sighted, because I'm sure his publisher wouldn't allow the book to go unfinished. They'd get Brandon Sanderson to finish it, or something. )


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I have a very flexible editor. Instead of sending her the whole thing when it's done, then waiting weeks for her to edit it, I send her two or three chapters at a time, which she edits and sends back. When I send her the last couple chapters, I only have to wait a day or two to get it back, and I've already made the edits on the previous parts. I also work on the cover and formatting as I go. From the time I type "The End" to the time it's published is usually only a couple of days.


Wow...super system...something to strive for!!!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

sorcererseries said:


> Woop Woop Jackie. Fingers crossed it helps turn things around for you.


Thanks. Thanks so much!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> so I find it hard to participate without people getting the wrong impression. I'd love any advice on that you have!


A lot of how authors are received on GR depends on the genre of the fandom, honestly YA and NA can be really tough to fit into because they've been burned by some pretty difficult authors who really made the community unpleasant for a while. There's a lot of mistrust of authors in those genres still, and people can be pretty touchy. It's not the case in all genres, though. I'd suggest getting to know some people in groups that overlap with your primary genre a little. Maybe some Steampunk groups or soft sci-fi or something like that. Just go there and talk about other books for a long time, and once you have a reputation for being a reader first and an author last, people will warm up.

I had the mod of one group go absolutely crazy on me via private message because she thought I was just using her group to promote my books (HA -- I talk about my own books roughly NEVER on GR!) She was getting really abusive, so I finally left the group altogether, told her why I'd left, and let her know that if she contacted me one more time I would report her to GR for harassment. Sometimes you have to stick up for yourself over there...but the majority of the interaction I've had there has been very positive. Just keep the focus on other people's books and you'll be fine.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> This is true, and also kind of not true (yay ambiguity!)
> 
> I think we tend to think about cliffhangers and closure in terms of the end of the book, but good craft really needs a tight pace throughout the book in order to feel satisfying. Not only your final scene, but the close of every single scene in every single chapter needs to have a satisfying wrap-up. What makes a story feel well-written is (among other things) juxtaposition between small satisfactions throughout (satisfying wrap-ups of scenes/chapters) combined with escalating tension throughout (the big problem to be solved continues to grow until the conflict finally reaches its climax.)
> 
> ...


There is much to say for providing enough satisfaction to the reader. My book is the first in the series and although it is set up to go on (the overall arc) there is enough in it to satisfy the reader of the current issues the characters have faced/battled in book one. It does hang on a tiny cliff ending, but for the most part, if I were to die in my sleep, the reader could assume what would take place next and satisfy that urge in their own mind. That is how I was told to write it, leaving a window open, but with the idea of closing all the ones I'd opened along the way through book one by the end, and with the idea that if I were to die in the night, could the reader satisfy the remainder in their own mind's eye...I think that is good sound advice.  NOT that I plan on dying in the night! lol


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> They'd get Brandon Sanderson to finish it, or something. )


I have nightmares about this happening...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> A lot of how authors are received on GR depends on the genre of the fandom, honestly YA and NA can be really tough to fit into because they've been burned by some pretty difficult authors who really made the community unpleasant for a while. There's a lot of mistrust of authors in those genres still, and people can be pretty touchy. It's not the case in all genres, though. I'd suggest getting to know some people in groups that overlap with your primary genre a little. Maybe some Steampunk groups or soft sci-fi or something like that. Just go there and talk about other books for a long time, and once you have a reputation for being a reader first and an author last, people will warm up.
> 
> I had the mod of one group go absolutely crazy on me via private message because she thought I was just using her group to promote my books (HA -- I talk about my own books roughly NEVER on GR!) She was getting really abusive, so I finally left the group altogether, told her why I'd left, and let her know that if she contacted me one more time I would report her to GR for harassment. Sometimes you have to stick up for yourself over there...but the majority of the interaction I've had there has been very positive. Just keep the focus on other people's books and you'll be fine.


Good to know. I was speaking of books in general, not my own...and yeah...but great advice.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

SevenDays said:


> I have nightmares about this happening...


*whispers* meeeee tooooooo...


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Marian said:


> I just had a BookBub ad and didn't have any of the things you mention. The ad was a great success. It can happen.


You don't have just one book out!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Yes, will wait to have more books out before trying BookBub again! Thanks!


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## Ginger Freedom (May 6, 2014)

What a generous community to offer so much support - great advice - if anything it has helped me define my own goals. For now, I am not going to focus on numbers, not too much effort into marketing, and am going to ground into the writing process. I am coming to the art of writing a wee bit late in life, am still juggling my career as a performing artist, visual artist, holding down a day job, and have expression wanting to make its way out into the world. I am at the age where fame/fortune are really of no interest to me, but I am interested in folks who might find comfort from the work finding it. One thing writers can freely celebrate is that writing is a MUCH less expensive medium to create in than dance or the visual arts and it is MUCH less expensive to get it out into the world. Thank you for the thought provoking commentary. Areas I note I can improve on...not be cheap and budget for a book cover designer... find a way to budget for an editor. But for now, happy to be here and for the intellectual stimulation.
http://www.gingerfreedom.com/quest


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Jaqueline, I feel your pain!

I did what no independent author should do: I bet the farm. Literally and figuratively. I was out of work, no hope of getting hired (middle of the worst part of the recession), and decided to give up on corporate life and finally take a shot at writing.

Fast forward about three years later, one year past the deadline and a few life disasters survived, I realized I wasn't going to make it financially. So I did a panic move: I noticed a few successful independent authors had published short novellas, and then combined them into complete novels and enjoyed wild success. With that vision in my sight, I looked at the first six chapters of my book and realized that it could stand on its own as a novella. I packaged it up and released it with the subtitle "The Pirate Arc" and launched it. It sold nearly 1000 copies in three months and received rave reviews (excepting two nasty reviews).

Buoyed by that market test, I figured the full novel would be a hit and doubled down on my efforts. Unfortunately, it took nearly 10 months before I was able to complete the full manuscript and get it out. I had lost some of the energy in the readers.

I launched the full novel and- And&#8230; &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I got rave reviews. Even some of the readers who read the excerpt came back for the full novel and loved it. I even had readers who were so engrossed in it that they forwent sleep and read the whole thing through.

And to date I've sold only 282 copies in eight months. Sales faded fairly quickly. I still get a sale every now and then, but that's about it. Based on how the short version did, I was hoping I would at least break 3,000 copies sold within the first four months.

Truth is, I knew that it wouldn't be until the second or third book is out that I would have any real success. I just have to be plugging at it. Book two will be out in another three or four months-I just have to hold off the banks long enough to get it out and hope that the release will breathe new life into the sales of book one. I don't expect to see any major success until the third book hits the shelves.

I know this because I do this myself: "Book one? But book two isn't out yet. I'll wait until then..."

98% of my sales are on Amazon. .69% on Apple and B&N (yes, that is _point_ six nine), and you can imagine how the others are doing. One oddball success has been BitBooks.co where I've sold the most ebooks in the past two months. I have no idea how to bring life into the other distributors. No amount of advertising or promoting via social networks has worked.

I know you aren't looking for an overnight success. All I want is to sell 10,000 copies of my book in a year. (That ain't gonna happen at this point.) It's agonizing to watch the sales of an excellently written book just die off. It's frustrating as I try to perform CPR on the sales of that book and watch others just dance on past me. I look at the other distributors and wonder just where did I go wrong that nothing sells through those channels. If I could get those channels to come to life, it would quadruple my sales and I'd be fine.

What we are all up against here is one nasty little fact: for any relatively new author (1-3 books in the market) it takes about 18 months for the audience to find the book. We all love Hugh Howey's success and we all desperately want to be him at this point-but there aren't enough goats for that, so we all have to plod along. (I do have some wood for sheep? Anybody got sheep?) But Howey commented in an interview that it a long time before _Wool_ showed any life in the market. He was selling only about a dozen per month at most for about _18 months_ before something happened and sales suddenly leapt off the charts. Now he's sold over 1 million books, has a movie deal brewing on the side, and has been able to quit his day job.

For any of us, we need patience and perseverance to push on. To be quite truthful, 90% of the people who attempt to self-publish only get one book out and give up and go on with life. The people you see here on KBoards Writer's Café are part of that other 10%. They aren't giving up and they are forging ahead and onward. That's why we all read these success stories here. They didn't quit at that one book, they pushed out the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth, and so on.

So don't let yourself get disillusioned with publishing yourself. It _is_ the hard path to follow. Focus on your writing-which is pretty damned good, by the way-and get your other books out. You will eventually see the sales start to perk up and come to life, later.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Ginger Freedom said:


> What a generous community to offer so much support - great advice - if anything it has helped me define my own goals. For now, I am not going to focus on numbers, not too much effort into marketing, and am going to ground into the writing process.


EXACTLY THIS! THANKS TO ALL AGAIN!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

WDR said:


> Jaqueline, I feel your pain!
> 
> I did what no independent author should do: I bet the farm. Literally and figuratively. I was out of work, no hope of getting hired (middle of the worst part of the recession), and decided to give up on corporate life and finally take a shot at writing.
> 
> ...


It's William, right? William?

Omigoodness, William you hit the nail on the head. I feel your pain, too. We are kindred spirits, you and I, we truly are. I read the following lines and a chill snuck up my spine: " I was out of work, no hope of getting hired (middle of the worst part of the recession), and decided to give up on corporate life and finally take a shot at writing. Fast forward about three years later, one year past the deadline and a few life disasters survived, I realized I wasn't going to make it financially."

Same [crap] different human. I TOO was out of work, no hope of getting hired anywhere in Ontario (I'd been a teacher, was placed in a portable building full of black toxic mould, became very ill, and anaphylactic to THE WORLD, it seemed (better now, but still touchy), had to out my employer in order to get the building I worked in torn down and a new room to teach in, (which sadly, I still couldn't tolerate. Air in re-circulated older buildings + Me = hospitalization after the poisoning...long story...another post.) So yeah, after being a whistle-blower to save my health, I was forced out of my profession, (go figure) and well, no one was hiring teachers throughout Ontario, let alone the fact that my body wouldn't tolerate public buildings anymore, so like you, I bet the farm on the only other thing I knew how to do--write. I attended conferences, and studied under greats, even managed to win blind entry into Ellen Hopkins Mentoring Program (which changed my life, btw...she is such a generous and wonderful human being.)

All along, I knew writing was a crap shoot, I did really, but a small part of me (the logical me) believed that if you worked hard enough at something and studied the craft and practised and practised, you could make yourself an expert in the field (isn't that how our society runs? how other professions are tackled? education + expertise = job opportunity? my logical brain said.) Only problem is, the world of publishing isn't logical, it plays by different rules, there is nothing logical about success in the arts.

What I was ignoring (likely purposely...or hoping it would fall into line for me) was the element of LUCK that is involved in this business. Sometimes even agents and editors don't know why one book hits over another, why one writer prevails over the next, it's all a great big mystery...the mystery of publishing. It is all up to the whim of the market, to the fancy of readers. About where you/your book/what idea you have, is at what time, in what place, at what moment. Seriously, it's that fickle. As my agent used to say, Sometimes good books don't sell at all, and sometimes bad books shock us all and sell like hotcakes. There is no real rhyme or reason, and certainly no formula. BUT there are tactics and avenues of attack and marketing strategies that can help with visibility (that I am so grateful people have openly shared with all of us on this thread, again everyone, THANKS!), but no one formula to success that's for sure.

BUT, as you say...it is not over yet! (See, I'm just a die-hard dreamer, that's me!) And you are right, some writers don't hit the sweet spot with their first book, maybe not even their 5th or 10th...maybe it's the 20th, who knows? Or the fact that they put that 3rd book out in the series, maybe that's the closer, who knows! I'm just so glad to be re-energized by people like you, who've shared their stories, and those who have offered insight and advice here on this thread. It has given me a whole new perspective on this crap shoot! As the girl said in the post before, it's help me set new goals for my writing and my marketing approach, for which I'm so thankful.

Now, I will be hopping over now to look up your work and support my fellow "bet the farm" writer. Wishing you all of the luck the future can bring! Luck! That elusive element! May we both tap into it soon!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Congrats on the award. Just caught up with all your posts.


Thank you SO much!


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

jackiegp said:


> I think the point is being missed here. I am not expecting to be a break out success. I may not have written that one book in a million, but I am looking to generate steady sales. 5-10 books a day would be amazing at this point. More than a book a day would work...or a book a day would be amazing...


I self-pubbed "Let's Do Lunch" in 2009 - at the 'magic' price of $0.99 which was the key to success at that point...and 'the magic' didn't happen. Had some success in December 2010 with the first round of KDP Select. Hit the UK Romantic Suspense Best Seller's list for 10 entire weeks. Hit #2 for a couple of days...ah the thrill of it all!

Short-lived, my friend, it was all short lived. But it was a glorious 10 weeks...until it ended and I didn't sell any books for the rest of the Select term, or the next Select term.

This is the real world of publishing.

Some books hit, some books don't.

It isn't the person, the author can do everything right and not have the 'magic' happen for them, ever.

I can SO relate to your post...this is a business that can burn you out. I got burned out when my mother passed. I just couldn't go on without her, I tried for a couple of years. Then I left things alone and did something else for awhile.

Now I'm back. The 'magic' still hasn't happened, though I was paid about $10 a month last year. I've got enough money to publish two more books, and I've got deadlines set up.

My point is this: I'm a writer. I've been a writer for 40 years, even though I never got published before I went DIY.

Most e-books still don't sell more than 100 copies a year. That doesn't make you a bad writer, it doesn't mean you or I need to fix or change what we write. It doesn't mean we have to stop writing. But it does mean we should stop doing the things that burn us out.

Each book is it's own crap-shoot. Every one is different. The more books you have out there, the more that will sell.

This is an old article, but I think it is still a valid point -- trade publishing has the same problem as DIY publishing. How 77 Million Paperback Books Are Pulped Each Year


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## travelinged (Apr 6, 2014)

vrabinec said:


> Try sacrificing a goat, and then writing another book.


It wouldn't be a wasted effort either. Writers can live a long time on a really good goat curry. Lots of wild oregano is the secret. That gives you the time and strength to write all the other books.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

travelinged said:


> It wouldn't be a wasted effort either. Writers can live a long time on a really good goat curry. Lots of wild oregano is the secret. That gives you the time and strength to write all the other books.


Go with Soylent, you can drink it while writing. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/05/12/140512fa_fact_widdicombe?currentPage=all
This article is really interesting actually. I might think about a Soylent lunch instead of fast food.....


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## Scott Runkel (Sep 15, 2014)

Hi Jackie,

I'm pretty new here (first post, actually, after lurking for a while), and as one who's still working to actually finish a novel, I found this thread fascinating (did not read every post, but many).

I was wondering what your current feelings are four months later? Looks like you're around #19 to #21 in YA Steampunk, a category in which Philip Pullman's trilogy takes up 3 spots. Your sales rank seems quite impressive for a single book!  

-Scott


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## Amber Rose (Jul 25, 2014)

Scott Runkel said:


> I was wondering what your current feelings are four months later? Looks like you're around #19 to #21 in YA Steampunk, a category in which Philip Pullman's trilogy takes up 3 spots. Your sales rank seems quite impressive for a single book!


I'd also be interested in this, since it looks as if Jackie did not publish any more books in the series (the book in question was published in December last year). I wonder how readers react to a first-in-the-series, with no follow up books in nine months+?


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Amber Rose said:


> I'd also be interested in this, since it looks as if Jackie did not publish any more books in the series (the book in question was published in December last year). I wonder how readers react to a first-in-the-series, with no follow up books in nine months+?


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Amber Rose said:


> I'd also be interested in this, since it looks as if Jackie did not publish any more books in the series (the book in question was published in December last year). I wonder how readers react to a first-in-the-series, with no follow up books in nine months+?


Same. Almost a year later and still no second book is not good. I would hesitate to buy the first book.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

I've nudged Jackie to come and respond since she doesn't always check the kboards every day. She's hard at work on Book two in the series - Noir. She also has another series out, more YA romance. 

The Lumiere book is a big read and Noir will be also - worth waiting for.

I'm a big supporter of Jackie because she really helped me out when I began studying my craft as a writer and we were both entrenched in the traditional publishing world and its path.

Also, because that's my beautiful daughter on the cover of a great book  !


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## Lyoung (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm not published yet, but I've been on KBoards for a while doing pure research. 

I'm going to be publishing my first book soon and as much as I have dreams of it being an instant success, I am completely expecting zilch. From what I've read so far, barely anyone succeeds with only one book. I am going to hit publish and then move on to my second book. I am not going to advertise or promote avidly (only a post or two on FB). I will just have a mailing list, put it on Select, and move on to book #2.

I don't expect any kind of success (mild or otherwise) until I have at least 3 to 5 books out.

So, please, don't be disillusioned. It looks like your experience is normal. You DO have a great book! I bought it and thought it was a beautiful read. However, since you only have one book out, I can't go back and be a repeat customer. I'm not going to buy your book twice, unless I lose the first one...which won't happen for an e-book. 

But ya know what? I'll gladly and eagerly buy your second book when it comes out.  And quite probably your third. And fourth. And fifth.

Chin up, my fellow beginning author! You can do it! It just takes patience and lots of elbow grease!

(Watch, you're going to see a similar post from me in a month or two, ha!)


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## Scott Runkel (Sep 15, 2014)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> I've nudged Jackie to come and respond since she doesn't always check the kboards every day. She's hard at work on Book two in the series - Noir. She also has another series out, more YA romance.
> 
> The Lumiere book is a big read and Noir will be also - worth waiting for.
> 
> ...


Wow, awesome. Thanks for the update!


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

I've done three then box set those
and started a new genre series, working on Vol-2 of that one
and, still I'm moving very little sold or freebies 
What sales my first ones are the covers, book wise I need to revise them because being my first they aren't that good, The covers are keeping them active
The moral of this story is like what others have said... Keep writing, something bound to stick...
BUT.. write what your interested in and don't write something because it's popular.
And  keep in mind if your writing because you want people to hear you than that's great! If your doing it for the money, you may want to keep your day job..until things pickup and you find your style/voice


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> I've nudged Jackie to come and respond since she doesn't always check the kboards every day. She's hard at work on Book two in the series - Noir. She also has another series out, more YA romance.
> 
> The Lumiere book is a big read and Noir will be also - worth waiting for.
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks for the update!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Hey Scott, Amber, everyone;

So cool to meet you guys and so wonderful for you to ask about my progress! Wow, it's been four months since I posted this! Oh my, where has the time gone.

Okay, well, yes...I'll admit it I've been a tardy author, as far as it comes to publishing the LUMIERE series, But *not* without good reason. I have been writing, just not that productively, sadly. Here are my reasons why. As my dear friend Heather mentioned, LUMIERE is a big book, a big undertaking...a huge dynamic world, loads of characters, inventions...yeah... all that...there in lies the rub. To me, book two has to be as good as the first...whatever that means in my crazy head. As most authors do over second books, I spent a few months getting in the way of my own progress..quite simply put... I freaked. I was like, I can't do this...I can't make it good enough, I don't know if I can write that way again, I can't, I can't, I can't. None of that was helpful, btw...but it is what authors do to themselves, I hear, and yeah....guilty as charged. Silly, maybe, but true.

And then there's the Amazon ratings game. True Scott, the book has been getting some lovely attention as of late, and doing okay in the standings some days, not so good others, depending on what day you click on...(apparently today it's doing okay). To be honest, I've stopped looking. It was making me a crazy woman. I had this silly thought in my head that if it went up the charts and made it up in the rankings it would stay there or close to that area...wrong. Truth is, you can be # 1 one day and off the charts the next, at least that's been my experience. So THAT has all been a new experience to weather. It feels really [crappy] too, when you can't figure out what to do to change your own destiny. I had to come to the realization that it is what it is for now...I need to just write.

I also had a melt down over the third act of book two where I wasn't sure what I really wanted to happen plot wise...I had about eighteen million ideas but none of them felt right...I started to hyperventilate just thinking about it. I think that also stems from being a traditional author first, where you are forced to write then rewrite your book so many times, you honestly get to the point where you think everything you are writing is [crap]. For me, it's been like shaking a bad addiction...one that keeps telling you your work isn't good enough, try again, every step of the way. I'm not gonna like, that experience messed with my creative head, and I've been a long time trying to get over it...not even sure I'm fully cured yet.

Now that I'm an Indie author, I don't need to please as many people. I just need to please my readers, that's it. It's taken me a bit to get my head around that, which has interrupted my writing...and I'm sorry for those who've read LUMIERE and been waiting...THANKS FOR STICKING WITH ME...I promise, I'm working on NOIR everyday...and will get it out as soon as it's sparkling.

With all this said, about two months back I woke up one day and said, screw it...what am I doing...I know how this story goes, I love the characters, I adore the world...I just need to get up and write it!!! So I did. (Writing demons people, I'm telling you. Demons.) Anyway, I just needed to set myself free the chains of trad publishing, worrying about trying to be that one grain of sand that passes through the publishing house hourglass, being told it's never good enough...blah blah blah...all that TOXIC stuff.

At any rate, I'm back at it...and as Heather said, in between (during my panic sessions) I brought out two parts of my four part YA paranormal/romance/mystery serial, IF ONLY...

I hope that helps? Encourages you? I don't know. I feel like I've come through a storm and I'm still sailing! I hope you will sail along with me, too!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Amber Rose said:


> I'd also be interested in this, since it looks as if Jackie did not publish any more books in the series (the book in question was published in December last year). I wonder how readers react to a first-in-the-series, with no follow up books in nine months+?


Hi Amber...to answer you directly re: I wonder how readers react to a first-in-series with no follow up? Uuuuuummmm... they'd likely react better if I had another book for them to read for sure! lol I think for the most part though, people who've enjoyed LUMIERE have been very kind to let me know, via email, joined my newsletter, where I've been honestly updating them on my progress, and offering them little extras along the way. It is what it is...creativity is like that sometimes...so yeah...I think for the most part, people will wait for good stories...look at King of Thrones...no one's rushing his ass! lol


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Hey Jackie thanks for the update! Sounds like things are moving along, even with a few bumps. No worries, go at whatever pace works best for you! I've added the first book to my wishlist over at B&N


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Puzzle said:


> Hey Jackie thanks for the update! Sounds like things are moving along, even with a few bumps. No worries, go at whatever pace works best for you! I've added the first book to my wishlist over at B&N


Thanks so much for understanding! And for the support! I love this place!!!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Scott Runkel said:


> Hi Jackie,
> 
> I'm pretty new here (first post, actually, after lurking for a while), and as one who's still working to actually finish a novel, I found this thread fascinating (did not read every post, but many).
> 
> ...


You know what Scott, I've stopped looking at stats...but WOW...looks like it's having a banner day...thanks for that! Read more in my answer to all of your below! Thanks for asking about my progress!  J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Lydia Young said:


> I'm not published yet, but I've been on KBoards for a while doing pure research.
> 
> I'm going to be publishing my first book soon and as much as I have dreams of it being an instant success, I am completely expecting zilch. From what I've read so far, barely anyone succeeds with only one book. I am going to hit publish and then move on to my second book. I am not going to advertise or promote avidly (only a post or two on FB). I will just have a mailing list, put it on Select, and move on to book #2.
> 
> ...


Hey Lydia! Thanks so so much for the compliments on LUMIERE. I'm thrilled you enjoyed it. And thanks for the encouragement. I will get the second book out and the third right after it, and others after that...soon...promise. THANKS SO MUCH FOR STICKING WITH ME! (smile) J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

CASD57 said:


> I've done three then box set those
> and started a new genre series, working on Vol-2 of that one
> and, still I'm moving very little sold or freebies
> What sales my first ones are the covers, book wise I need to revise them because being my first they aren't that good, The covers are keeping them active
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Thanks to HEATHER for the shout out and the heads up...and for the lovely model of a daughter!!! YAY! It's good to have supportive writing friends like you! (hugs) Always. J


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## Jessica R (Nov 11, 2012)

Your book sounds interesting, and I so love that her name is Eyelet. I want to say to Lydia, please don't do that. I think dreaming of much and expecting little is key -but- I think you have to give it your best shot because you never know.  My first book didn't do very well, so I don't credit it for the success of my second, although I guess having at least one other might make me look more experienced.  It's like people say, I don't know why it did well, but I've been very happy with it. But I did send notice to about 15 blogs about my freebie day, plus hired some people on fiverr to promote it a few times, $5 no big deal, and a few other little things. Because of my free days, I have a lot of reviews, and sales are still around 40 a day. After reading this I'm trying to ready myself for when sales drop off to oblivion.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Jessica R said:


> Your book sounds interesting, and I so love that her name is Eyelet. I want to say to Lydia, please don't do that. I think dreaming of much and expecting little is key -but- I think you have to give it your best shot because you never know. My first book didn't do very well, so I don't credit it for the success of my second, although I guess having at least one other might make me look more experienced. It's like people say, I don't know why it did well, but I've been very happy with it. But I did send notice to about 15 blogs about my freebie day, plus hired some people on fiverr to promote it a few times, $5 no big deal, and a few other little things. Because of my free days, I have a lot of reviews, and sales are still around 40 a day. After reading this I'm trying to ready myself for when sales drop off to oblivion.
> 
> Hey Jessica! As you said, you never know...maybe your sales won't drop off!!! (LOVE YOUR COVER BTW) I did nothing that you've done...didn't know what I was doing when I released it...no fiverr, not blog support...so yeah...need to get it together before I release book two I guess. (runs to figure out what you're talking about...lol) Thanks!


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## Lyoung (Oct 21, 2013)

Jessica R said:


> I want to say to Lydia, please don't do that. I think dreaming of much and expecting little is key -but- I think you have to give it your best shot because you never know. My first book didn't do very well, so I don't credit it for the success of my second, although I guess having at least one other might make me look more experienced. It's like people say, I don't know why it did well, but I've been very happy with it. But I did send notice to about 15 blogs about my freebie day, plus hired some people on fiverr to promote it a few times, $5 no big deal, and a few other little things. Because of my free days, I have a lot of reviews, and sales are still around 40 a day. After reading this I'm trying to ready myself for when sales drop off to oblivion.


Thanks for that, Jessica! I didn't mean to sound like a total bummer.  For me, I just personally don't want to get stuck in the rut of checking on sales every day and becoming supremely disappointed if I'm not an instant success. But if I *am* in the rare category of finding a lot of success with my first book, the joy would be stupendous! I'd celebrate with a steak burrito and a new keyboard (my current one makes my eye twitch).

I want to kiss my first book on the cheek, wrap it up in a scarf and sweater, and send it out with much love on its first day of school. But I don't want to coddle it. I'll have to work on my next book soon (as much to build up my backlog as to keep up the momentum of writing and getting my story out) and begin to get the rhythm of how to be an entrepreneur as much as I am a writer. As it is...I'm just excited because I finally got my business licenses. I celebrated with cheesecake the day I received them in the mail.

That's how much of a dork I am.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

I'll give you the same advice I give everyone struggling to get noticed with one published book. Set it aside. Forget you ever wrote it. Stop promoting it. End the book signings. Start writing another book!

No amount of promotions, reviews, blogging, book tours, or paid ads will sell half as many books as will one simple thing. Publishing another book. Doesn't matter how good your first one is, how enticing the cover it, or how exciting the blurb is, a single book's just not going to do well. Anyone saying it can, is blowing smoke up your skirt.

When I published my first book, I did just that. Forgot about it and started writing my second one. I didn't check sales, or mention it to anyone until I published the second one. The three months between the two publishing dates, I sold 28 copies of my first one. The *week* after publishing the second book, I sold 100 copies of each.

After the second one was published, I did a little bit of promoting and advertising, but put most of my energy into writing the third. Between publishing the second and third, I averaged about 10-15 sales per day combined. The month I published #3, I sold 3000 copies combined.

A month later, I published a novella as a prequel and it soared. That was book #4. I'm less than a month from celebrating the one year anniversary of the publication of my first book and will publish my 5th just a few days before that. To date, I've sold 35,517 copies of all of them. In August, I sold an amazing 11,665 books. Yeah, it was a $21K month.

Care to guess what I did the day after I wrote The End on my last book? Yeah, I'm two chapters into #6 already and #5 won't be published for another two weeks. Writing at least 1000 words every single day has become such a habit, I can't stop if I wanted to. Writing at least 1000 words a day equals a 90K word novel every three months, or four per year.


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## Scott Runkel (Sep 15, 2014)

Hi Jackie,

Thanks for the detailed updates! Glad to hear things are moving along, and it was fun to reactivate this thread.

I want to add that completing a novel is a huge accomplishment; so whatever happens with sales, you'll always have that. It's been a goal of mine for many years, and like others I have a hard drive littered with incomplete drafts and story starts. But the end is finally in sight on one of them, so I hope someday soon to join you -- even having a single book whose lackluster sales I can lament will be a life goal achieved, for me. And after reading lots on Kboards and elsewhere, I know that to make a career of this (second career, really), I'll be adding many more books in the years to come.

I just bought a copy of Lumiere and so far I love the writing!

And you've got me intrigued to hear the story of that beautiful cover, too...


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I'll give you the same advice I give everyone struggling to get noticed with one published book. Set it aside. Forget you ever wrote it. Stop promoting it. End the book signings. Start writing another book!
> 
> No amount of promotions, reviews, blogging, book tours, or paid ads will sell half as many books as will one simple thing. Publishing another book. Doesn't matter how good your first one is, how enticing the cover it, or how exciting the blurb is, a single book's just not going to do well. Anyone saying it can, is blowing smoke up your skirt.
> 
> ...


Hey Wayne!!!

As always, you amaze me with #'s and sales and determination! OMG... YOU are an inspiration. Please keep dropping in on my threads. I typically write 3K words a day, but somehow never get that book finished that fast. Too busy, going back over it, rewriting passages, re-arranging things...ugh. Anyway, I assume things will become more like clockwork as I re-arrange my mind-set, as I said, off of trad pub excellence that can never be achieved to GREAT story telling...cut and dried. Also, just for the record, I've released two more books in a different vein, and yeah...not having that rush you speak of. But in all fairness, I have not done much promo at all. Waiting to get book #2 of LUMIERE done, and #3 of IF ONLY, then I'll pause for a breath, advertise, and then, as you say...write on!!!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Scott Runkel said:


> Hi Jackie,
> 
> Thanks for the detailed updates! Glad to hear things are moving along, and it was fun to reactivate this thread.
> 
> ...


Hey Scott! I really love your attitude! Just like you, I very much just wanted to complete a book and have people read it, only now I've bought into the idea of making some income at this gig called writing and I'm determined to see the light in that tunnel!!! Thanks for the download, and I'm glad you're liking the writing (smile). Be sure to ding me when you're book comes out so I can support you!

The cover story goes like this: A bunch of friends came to my rescue, after I paid a whole lot of money to another cover artist (who shall remain nameless) for a private shoot that turned out to be a true disaster. I was out of funds, heartbroken, giving up, and a good writer friend of mine Jen Pun said, um...no, you don't. She made a call, and a friend of hers stepped up to take the photo, I made a call and a friend of mine's daughter agreed to be my model (Heather's daughter), I ordered the dress off etsy, add some lace, ordered the necklace off etsy, did the shoot, got my son to add some special effects (his first job as an animator! out of school...now he's too big for me) and then sent it off to a GREAT book cover artist to polish it and add the words. All it all, a bunch of friends came together, lent me funds and saved the day. I love the cover. It reminds me of what writing communities should be. Not the dog eat dog world of trad, where editors and houses pit authors against one another. But that's a whole other post!


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Wayne is the great voice of wisdom on so many threads here! I wonder if he's aware how many of us get excited whenever we see his smiling face at the beginning of a post


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> Wayne is the great voice of wisdom on so many threads here! I wonder if he's aware how many of us get excited whenever we see his smiling face at the beginning of a post


Which other threads? Do link me up, pal!!!


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

I think I've bookmarked every thread Wayne has ever started LOL. I'll have to look them up for you.


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## Todd Gunn (Sep 16, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Hey Scott! I really love your attitude! Just like you, I very much just wanted to complete a book and have people read it, only now I've bought into the idea of making some income at this gig called writing and I'm determined to see the light in that tunnel!!! Thanks for the download, and I'm glad you're liking the writing (smile). Be sure to ding me when you're book comes out so I can support you!
> 
> The cover story goes like this: A bunch of friends came to my rescue, after I paid a whole lot of money to another cover artist (who shall remain nameless) for a private shoot that turned out to be a true disaster. I was out of funds, heartbroken, giving up, and a good writer friend of mine Jen Pun said, um...no, you don't. She made a call, and a friend of hers stepped up to take the photo, I made a call and a friend of mine's daughter agreed to be my model (Heather's daughter), I ordered the dress off etsy, add some lace, ordered the necklace off etsy, did the shoot, got my son to add some special effects (his first job as an animator! out of school...now he's too big for me) and then sent it off to a GREAT book cover artist to polish it and add the words. All it all, a bunch of friends came together, lent me funds and saved the day. I love the cover. It reminds me of what writing communities should be. Not the dog eat dog world of trad, where editors and houses pit authors against one another. But that's a whole other post!


That is a nice ending to a bad start. 

Your cover looks absolutely terrific. I can visualize a series of them in a similar vein when you become successful.


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## Todd Gunn (Sep 16, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I'll give you the same advice I give everyone struggling to get noticed with one published book. Set it aside. Forget you ever wrote it. Stop promoting it. End the book signings. Start writing another book!
> 
> No amount of promotions, reviews, blogging, book tours, or paid ads will sell half as many books as will one simple thing. Publishing another book. Doesn't matter how good your first one is, how enticing the cover it, or how exciting the blurb is, a single book's just not going to do well. Anyone saying it can, is blowing smoke up your skirt.
> 
> ...


That's a great story Wayne and thank you for sharing it.

It gives some motivation and inspiration to people like myself


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## Scott Runkel (Sep 15, 2014)

jackiegp said:


> Hey Scott! I really love your attitude! Just like you, I very much just wanted to complete a book and have people read it, only now I've bought into the idea of making some income at this gig called writing and I'm determined to see the light in that tunnel!!! Thanks for the download, and I'm glad you're liking the writing (smile). Be sure to ding me when you're book comes out so I can support you!


Haha, will do!



jackiegp said:


> The cover story goes like this: A bunch of friends came to my rescue, after I paid a whole lot of money to another cover artist (who shall remain nameless) for a private shoot that turned out to be a true disaster. I was out of funds, heartbroken, giving up, and a good writer friend of mine Jen Pun said, um...no, you don't. She made a call, and a friend of hers stepped up to take the photo, I made a call and a friend of mine's daughter agreed to be my model (Heather's daughter), I ordered the dress off etsy, add some lace, ordered the necklace off etsy, did the shoot, got my son to add some special effects (his first job as an animator! out of school...now he's too big for me) and then sent it off to a GREAT book cover artist to polish it and add the words. All it all, a bunch of friends came together, lent me funds and saved the day. I love the cover. It reminds me of what writing communities should be. Not the dog eat dog world of trad, where editors and houses pit authors against one another. But that's a whole other post!


Wow. That's mind boggling!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Todd Gunn said:


> That is a nice ending to a bad start.
> 
> Your cover looks absolutely terrific. I can visualize a series of them in a similar vein when you become successful.


THANK YOU TODD!!! Can't wait to release #2...but that's a bit off yet!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Um, yes please, Heather!!!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> Wayne is the great voice of wisdom on so many threads here! I wonder if he's aware how many of us get excited whenever we see his smiling face at the beginning of a post


Aww, shucks....

I received so much help from other writers on here, I just feel obliged to pass on anything I learn. If my story inspires someone to keep at it, well, I'm humbled. In truth, my only goal when I started writing, was to make enough money to buy some shop tools so I could build a nice boat. Nobody was more surprised than me.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

I love those kind of stories, Wayne!!!


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## Michelle Hughes (Dec 12, 2011)

Quiss said:


> That all sounds rough.
> 
> One thing that may well be holding you back is having only one title out. Don't give up!
> 
> I always thought that was a bunch of poppy-cock (one title) and resisted the belief that you need more books out there to sell. I was shown how wrong I was. Currently I have more than 10 and what I've found is it works. Stop looking at sales numbers and write, write, write and then write some more.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Just a quick note here to say that LUMIERE has recently won an Indie Brag Medallian! (Squeeee!) Excited!!! And honoured.


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## taiweiland (Oct 16, 2014)

Congrats on the win!!

Must thank you for starting the thread. I've learned a lot from it. What I can glean from this is: Write, write write. Don't look at sales numbers. Just write!

Which is my philosophy, really. I only plan to actively market after my fifth book is out and when there are three books to my Distant Stars saga.


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## Jessica R (Nov 11, 2012)

Woohoo!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

taiweiland said:


> Congrats on the win!!
> 
> Must thank you for starting the thread. I've learned a lot from it. What I can glean from this is: Write, write write. Don't look at sales numbers. Just write!
> 
> Which is my philosophy, really. I only plan to actively market after my fifth book is out and when there are three books to my Distant Stars saga.


Ummmm, my new philosophy too! LOVE your cover btw! (runs to check out the book...)


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## taiweiland (Oct 16, 2014)

Lol its sadly not published yet. I plan to write three books of the series before publishing it ;-)


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Hooray! I'm happy to hear you're feeling better about things. Keep on keepin' on. That's the way to get there.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> Just a quick note here to say that LUMIERE has recently won an Indie Brag Medallian! (Squeeee!) Excited!!! And honoured.


Congratulations, Jackie!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

I just wanted to jump back on here and spread some news...

Thanks everyone for keeping me going. Here is my announcement. Wish me luck!

http://jacquelinegarlick.com/stop-wishing/


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## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

You have some serious grit, Jackie. I wish you nothing but the best of luck and success


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

The cover of Lumiere is top notch. I'm jealous and I just had mine redone.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Jacqueline, I really want to read this. In fact, I'd been thinking of interviewing a few people on my blog to present a more realistic view of selfpublishing and you were one on my list.

But. I can't read that blog. When I load the page some dark hue descends over the lighter background, and the whole page is way too dark and devoid of contrast for me to read.


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## 67499 (Feb 4, 2013)

This thread really helped me refocus on what counts and get back to writing, which is what counts.


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## AmberDa1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Congrats, Jackie and wish you much success! Love your site


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Patty Jansen said:


> Jacqueline, I really want to read this. In fact, I'd been thinking of interviewing a few people on my blog to present a more realistic view of selfpublishing and you were one on my list.
> 
> But. I can't read that blog. When I load the page some dark hue descends over the lighter background, and the whole page is way too dark and devoid of contrast for me to read.


Patty,

I don't know what computer/browser you're using, but can you invoke Reader mode? Safari has it, and I think there's something similar in other browsers... It creates black text on a white background.

Betsy


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Patty,
> 
> I don't know what computer/browser you're using, but can you invoke Reader mode? Safari has it, and I think there's something similar in other browsers... It creates black text on a white background.
> 
> Betsy


I use Chrome. I see black text on a dark grey background. It's really illegible. The pictures are fine. It is as if they've been positioned on the dark grey layer that drops over the text a few seconds after opening the website.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

You can add the chrome plugin called Read Mode.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Just wanted to say a quick congrats to Jacquie and a well-done for never giving up. I'm glad this worked out for you.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

One odd thing I noticed immediately: no Amazon author page, or at least, not one that links to her books. I go to her books, click the author link, and I get the default search. So, there's one thing already that could be done ti help things along. Readers like to be able to go to an author page and see all the books at a glance, with associated series lists, etc. Also, she seems to have two series, but only one is linked as a series of two. The other three seem to be related by similar titles, but who knows which one to read first? Readers are lazy. They want to know quickly and clearly where to start and how many books there are in the series so far, etc.

Did no one notice this before, or did I miss the notice?


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> I use Chrome. I see black text on a dark grey background. It's really illegible. The pictures are fine. It is as if they've been positioned on the dark grey layer that drops over the text a few seconds after opening the website.


Hey Patty, that is really weird. It does take a moment to load, a few sometimes. Maybe try just going on my site at jacquelinegarlick.com and then looking for the post Stop Wishing...  Let me know. J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone, for the congratulations! I'm excited. Hoping for the best.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

David VanDyke that is so crazy. I've been on there MANY a time trying to fix that on my author site (perhaps now they'll fix it for me?!?). Feels like every time I add a new book (just put up a pre-order) everything goes off again. Thanks for the heads up, will look into it again!  J


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## GinJones (Feb 19, 2013)

Just for the OP's info, so you know it's not just Patty, I get the same thing in Chrome -- dark taupe print on a medium taupe background, which is legible if I work at it, but is definitely not enticing, and casual browsers aren't going to work at it.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Wow, thanks GinJones. I'll have to speak to my designer. I didn't make the site, so I don't know what to do about that. But thanks! J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Here is my author page, but you are right...something is odd because the prices are wrong...(I didn't put them in) according to the corresponding books when you click them, and it is showing up on the book pages just waaaaay at the bottom, is there something I should be doing to fix that? amazon.com/author/jacquelinegarlick Thanks


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

jackiegp said:


> I just wanted to jump back on here and spread some news...
> 
> Thanks everyone for keeping me going. Here is my announcement. Wish me luck!
> 
> http://jacquelinegarlick.com/stop-wishing/


Huge congrats!!! Woo-hoo!!!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Ok...I've reposted my blog here, for those who can't open, minus my cool pictures.

I’ve always been a risk-taker, a what the heck, let’s do it, why not kind of person. That’s why, in 2008, after being placed in a portable (teaching) building, filled with black toxic mould, erected over an abandoned (uncapped) oil field (hard to believe, I know…but it’s true…they built a school over an abandoned oil site from the 1800’s…and then lied about it when the teachers got sick (toxically poisoned to be more exact), I knew what I had to do. My days in education were clearly numbered after blowing the whistle. The door on my teaching career was slamming shut. I needed to open a new window. I decided the window should lead to something I loved, something I’d always dreamed of doing—something I was most passionate about in life. Novel writing.

In 2009, as my family was packing up our dream home (the one I’d just lost along with my job) I was on a plane to Tahoe to a writers retreat where I vowed to myself I wouldn’t leave without my writing getting noticed. (Risk-taker that I am. What can I say?) The retreat was offering a chance at a mentoring program–a year’s instruction under Ellen Hopkins and her selection of famous/published authors, with the chance to land an agent, and/or editing contract at the end. I decided I needed to win a position in the program, or die trying. By the end of the weekend, not only was I invited into the mentor program, but my work had caught the eye of a young editor, Nancy Conescu, who openly laughed aloud at my comedic piece, and invited me to send it directly to her when it was finished. I was holding the only chapter I’d written at that point, but I was hooked. Safe to say, I was through the window…

I quickly got my writing butt in gear and by 2010 I’d finished a book, Ellen’s mentoring program, and landed a top agent in the biz. I was on my way into a new career. Risk was paying off. Disaster averted. Or at least I thought. But as is so often the case in the publishing business, just when you think your feet are on firm ground, it becomes a sheet of ice. In short, the year ended with a whah whah whaaaaaaah, when that book—sought after now by two major publishing house editorsdidn’t sell. And neither did the next…or the next. Egadz…

With every disappointment I fell deeper and deeper in a hole–one I was constructing for myself. The wildly gregarious leap I’d made through that window earlier, seemed a ridiculous and pointless (somewhat selfish) exercise. The prize (a publishing contract), I so desperately wanted was being won by many, many (almost all) of my other writer friends, one after the other (like a bloody hell processional!!! of which I was excluded.) The contract felt like an elusive golden carrot, and I, the tricked horse.

I was down in the mouth, to say the least. I was taking it personally, despite being told not to. My writing just wasn’t good enough. Which meant I wasn’t good enough. Which meant I had nothing left. That’s how the engine of traditional publishing made me feel. I had lost all will to write. I felt empty and stupid, like I’d been taken, duped by a silly slight of hand illusion. After all, I’d put everything I had into what I was doing, logically I should be succeeding, but I still had no idea how to win.

Then I wrote a book called LUMIERE and it was as though the heavens parted. “It was good, really good!” My agent said. He sounded surprised. Lumiere-Jacqueline Garlick ebooksm“I think this one might be it!” The first 50 pages won me entrance into the famed Break Out Novel Intensive (on a scholarship), a weeklong course taught by the famed, Donald Maass, who upon reading my submission, tried to steal me away for one of his junior agents. Windows were flying open.Thank God I am stubborn and don’t give up.

Out the book went on submission. I was hopeful, really hopeful, and then… it happened again, whah whah whaaaaaah. Back the book came, accompanied by a sea of raving editorial letters (as usual), one of which compared elements of my story to that of the freshness of Harry Potter. Harry Potter…say what? Despite the praise, the answer was still...no. I was crushed, crying actually. “You know your writing is there, it’s just not your turn,” one editor said to my face, in a meeting. “Not my turn?” What was that supposed to mean? “I’ve never gotten such wonderful rejections letters and they buy my books,” another author friend said. Egadz again. 

At that, I fell in the hole. Never to get out, I thought. After all, how much better could I write, than Harry Potter-like? Then a colleague mentioned, that editor’s comment was likely only meant for my agent, so he’d continue to bring the editor good books, a business tactic, and wasn’t a reflection of my work at all, and I’d lie down in my dirt hole and pull the trap door down over my head.

On a whim my agent said, “If you feel that strongly about the book, why don’t you self publish it?” I took that as a dare. I thought, yeah, why not? Because at the same time, I had started to see the publishing industry for what it really was. Nothing more than a company trying to money, buying a product, they know (or hope they know, mostly guessing) will sell, and hopefully turn a profit. It really had little to do with me, or my work. It wasn’t me. It was them.

A note on the bottom of one my rejections helped me come to this realization. Though the editor had loved my book, the marketing department questioned where it would fit on the limited shelf space available at Borders (scratch that…Borders closed while I was on submission) Barnes & Nobles, their one major distribution hub. After all, I’d had the nerve as a writer to explore new territory. I’d crossed genres AND written in an “obscure” (on the cusp of becoming popular) genre. (What’s a risk-taker to do?) Two strikes against my original writing-ass, right there…in the traditional publishing world, at least. The marketing department deemed that only Scott Westerfield could succeed at such a endeavor, and I was not he, thus, the answer to purchasing my book was a resounding no…but good luck!

It was then I realized, rejections these days have little to do with the quality of story telling, and more to do with business venture strategy. Mostly, they have to do with being that one grain of sand that makes it through the publishing hourglass, at the very moment the appropriate shelf space at B&N opens up…and being Scott Westerfield…or, in my case, not.

(Insert photo of my books on the shelf in stores here) <— Oh, and…marketing, this is where the book fits, btw…(Indigo Shelves in both London and Toronto)

With renewed vigour, I burst onto the Indie scene, and I’m not going to lie, it’s been hard. I’ve had to retrain my brain to think out of the box, like in the beginning, when I fearlessly leapt through that window, before I ended up a withering shell of myself snivelling, in that hole. I’ve had to learn to think like a publisher–and not the, we are here to preserve culture bit…no, no, no–rather the quiet thoughts of publishers that authors are seldom (if ever) privy to. The competitive business goal thoughts, geared around producing eye-candy quality products, commercial hits preferably, backed by savvy marketing plans, targeted at the hearts of book buyers, while acquiring a strong data base of readers, to sell products to in the future. It also helps to partner with one of the largest distribution companies in the world, with access to said databases…namely, Amazon.

Which leads me to today’s major announcement…on the second leg of my self-publishing journey…after one year’s time…

(Imagine great announcement button where by I announce I've sold LUMIERE and NOIR to Amazon Skyscape.

And yes, I brokered the deal myself…assisted by Stephanie Hawkins at thumbprintconsulting, who I highly recommend.

I’m super excited to be joining the Skyscape family. I’m excited about this new partnership. I’m thrilled to be working with editor, Miriam Juskowicz, who discovered my work on-line (as a self-published book), and fell in love with my words and story, which lead to my signing this contract today (elusive carrot at last in hand). I will be working with Amazon on this series, and I will still be Indie publishing other works. Am I open to other traditional publishing house contracts? Absolutely! I think this is a great chance for this series that I’ve worked so tirelessly to create and promote, but I’m a firm believer (now) certain projects fit better in different venues. (It’s that whole in and out of the box thing.) As authors today, we are blessed to have access to a variety of publishing venues. The sky’s the limit (sorry for the pun), but it’s true! I view this partnership with Skyscape as an opportunity for my already thriving series! Another window! Another jump! Here I go again!

As I lie, back there in that awful hole, with the trap door drawn over me, one of my brilliant, creative, successful sons said, “Mother, you’ve grown a skin on your pudding, its time to stir the pot.” And he was right. If you’re not willing to stir…new things can’t happen. It’s as simple as this… (Imagine banner that says, Action Changes Things) 

And to quote my brother famous saying, “If things don’t change they’ll stay as they are.” Again… (Imagine banner that says...Stop wishing something would happen and make it happen.)


Ellen Hopkins trained me well. She said, “It’s all about reader take back. What does the reader take away from this experience?” Well, I hope readers will see, sometimes we can get ourselves trapped in a box. A box we think we need to be in. A box others have convinced us is the only acceptable box, when really…so many opportunities lie just outside the cardboard. But know this, the decision to go Indie is not for the faint of heart. There’ll be more disappointments to handle along the way, but there’ll also be triumphs, too. The main difference is, your hand is on the rudder, you are in control, and at any time you can steer yourself a new direction. You’ll never again be stuck, or told, “It’s just not your turn.” But, your career will only be what you make of it…or not make of it. It’s as simple as that.

Funny how much harder you work when there’s no one else to blame. That said, I wish you all the best in finding your way.

In the meantime (puts on team Skyscape hat)…Let's Do THis


Leap! WISH ME LUCK!


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Congratulations Jacqueline! I hope you get to keep your covers - Lumiere is one of my favourite all-time covers.


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## Steve W. (Feb 23, 2011)

Congrats! Great news.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone, and YES to the covers!!! I'm so happy, I would have died giving those up!


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## Howietzer (Apr 18, 2012)

Definitely agree with everyone that your covers are spectacular... Sorry you've had such a rough go of it, but sounds like things are on the up-and-up, so good for you!


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

jackiegp said:


> Thanks everyone, and YES to the covers!!! I'm so happy, I would have died giving those up!


That's awesome  I just finished reading every post in this thread, and I have to say Jackie you've come so far, that's something to be proud of!

I'm still new here on kboards and I'm happy to find everybody so welcoming and open to helping everybody else. Such a great community here. I hope I can contribute more as I get farther in my self publishing journey.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

What an interesting story. (I just read over half of the posts--this thread alone would make a good non-fiction novel.) Wow. Just wow. 

And a big Congrats. You earned it!


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

Congrats on the deal! May you have the full weight of the Amazon marketing juggernaut behind you, at full steam!


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Not gonna lie: I teared up a little reading this.    I'm so happy for you!  

I am gonna call it now, before anybody else gets to it in this thread. You will be in the top 5 on the Amazon store one day.  And I wish you all that and more.


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Oh, WOW...okay, now I'm tearing up!!! You guys are all so wonderful!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for all the well wishes and hopes and dreams of success! I'm so grateful for all the help I received on this thread and others, and all the support when I was feeling so lost! You guys seriously helped me keep going, and got me writing again, when I believed no one else cared...there you were, asking for book two! Cheering me on! And YOU are STILL doing IT! Omgosh, I'm seriously overwhelmed and thrilled, and touched, and grateful, and...and...and...THANKS, just THANKS!!! All the best to all of you! J


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

I wish there was a 'like' button on here, so I could LIKE all your lovely comments! So please, accept my thanks! J


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

Jackie, your story . . . I so identified with it.  Like you, I went through years of trying to get published traditionally.  At one point, I even had an editor who really wanted to take my book . . . and then her publisher closed to my genre.  WAH!!

After awhile, I just gave up.  I tried not to, but it was like I crawled into a dark hole and publishers just kept shoving more dirt into it.  It hurt almost physically whenever I saw books for sale that I thought were terrible, while mine was so amazing . . . (I know, I'm biased, but really, I felt that way).

Then I would find a book I absolutely loved, a traditionally published book, and all would be right with the world and I would think, "I want to be where this author is!  I want to be just like him/her!"  And then I'd get a burst of motivation, inspiration, and energy, and I'd write more and send out another flurry of query letters, and then I'd get a lot of form rejections again.

It was a painful, miserable experience.  And it happened for over a decade.

Then, finally, I decided to try self-publishing.  I had always believed I was "better" than that, and deserved "better," but I'd heard the stigma had been disappearing (this was in 2012).  So I decided to try it.  I paid for a cover artist.  I learned Scribus.  And along the way, I learned that I actually really, really love print book layouting.

Now I'm working on my third book (fourth if you count my comic strip anthology collection), and I've basically lost all interest in traditional publishing.  I decided long ago that I would consider it if a publisher approached me, but I would never again chase it.  I could do it, and there are certain things I would enjoy (an awesome editor, an awesome marketing team, print bookstore visibility), but I would never again allow an outside company to tell me whether my books were worth finding readers.

And I'm not even making that many sales currently.  Sometimes it's only about 5 a month.  But looking back at that hole where I was even five years ago, it's such an improvement that I feel grateful every day.

Someday, I hope to have as much success as you have.  Hopefully when I can write as quickly.  

Hugs and love from another young adult fantasy self-publishing author who knows the feeling and is delighted with how you're doing.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

I just feel like a cheerleader... Go Go Go UnicornEmily and Jackie! You both are amazing- Keep it up!


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## Nonny (Jul 23, 2013)

Wow, Jackie! Congrats!


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## jackiegp (May 18, 2013)

Thanks again everyone! Thanks for all the kind words and support!


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