# Success stories: How long to gain traction?



## Keith Soares (Jan 9, 2014)

How many books / years / parts of a series / BookBub ads / whatever did you need before you attained "success"? That's a qualitative term, so I'll try to quantify it. How long until you stopped worrying about things like a job, bills, etc.? 

This is clearly a question focused on those who have excelled... I'm quite curious. I suspect every answer is different, but I wonder where things overlap. Similarities that help others make sense of the madness.

K.


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Took me five books to get to the point where I'm paying 90% of my bills from my royalties.  I released those over the span of about 18 months, but never managed to get any Bookbub ads, just a few ENT promos.  However, it does seem to vary a lot from genre to genre.  Fantasy and modern fantasy seem to be in a permanent rut, and romance is very competitive with readers expecting a high turnover and low prices.  I was lucky enough to accidentally pick a niche market with my first series (post-apoc romance), which helped a lot.

Will be interesting to see everyone else's response, though.  Interesting question!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

4 years of doing all the wrong things (had to learn some lessons I guess) and 2 books worth of doing smarter things. So... in some ways, 5 years, in others about 3 months.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Much like Annie I had two years of doing things like a moron and now almost two years of doing things the right way.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Less than a year.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

I'll pretty much repeat what i wrote in a similar thread on the same subject

I write NA romance and i released two books together. I did quite a bit of offline promoting interacting with reading groups. I got some good reviews as soon as my book was released on Amazon. Those early readers did a fantastic job of spreading the word about my books using social media and just recommending it to other readers.

I spent zero on promoting my book in the early days. I used free promo sites and reached out to book bloggers who read my genre. I don't have a mailing list and i spend very little time on social media. i blog about once every week or fortnight. I have a bunch of loyal readers who i am grateful for, they buy my books as soon as they are released.

After three months, I sold enough that i could pay my bills and live on the money so I quit my crappy job. I did have a little money saved up ( i would say about enough to last me for 6 months). I continue to temp as a secretary on the odd occasion (about every 3 or 4 weeks i might do a few days work to save money for trips and special nights out)


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee (YodaRead) said:


> Much like Annie I had two years of doing things like a moron and now almost two years of doing things the right way.


YAY! this is the first time I have seen Yodaread as Amanda with signature. I am so excited!

Interesting thread. Even though I pay 90% of my bills with 4 books and only a little over a year since I first published in March 2014, I do not consider myself a success yet. I have had success with publishing, sure, but I will let you all know when I think I have topped the success summit. When I get my books out on a more consistent basis and quit letting work days go by without writing I will be one step closer!


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## RomanceAuthor (Aug 18, 2014)

Amanda & Annie, would you mind elaborating just a bit? What were you doing wrong and what turned the tide around?


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## BobPage (Mar 16, 2012)

This thread I know is not for me, but I just sold two single action Rugers (one .22 Single Ten  & another Blackhawk stainless .357) so that I can foist my crap writing upon the world. The local pawn shop though is doing just fine.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Sure.

Things I did wrong:

Wrote without readership and market in mind.
Priced high for no reason other than unsupported ideas like "readers will think you are worth more" and "don't undervalue yourself" etc.
Wrote mostly short fiction, not in series, no follow up, irregular releases, no mailing list.
No calls to action for reviews or mailing list.
No ads, no loss-leaders, having an author page that looked like a random selection of fiction and covers and cover types. 
No paying attention to genre in terms of pricing and planning and branding. 
Not trying things that other people reported working well for them.

Things I changed and started doing better:

Wrote a series with regular follow up titles.
Wrote with readership and target market in mind, making sure I delivered the things that make my genre popular while putting my own twist on it in a way that doesn't break conventions/tropes.
Priced with a plan, with research and reasons, to funnel readership into my books.
Paid for professional covers, editing, and formatting.
Utilized a mailing list, became unafraid of giving away books, and added calls to action for reviews and the mailing list to all my stuff.
Connected with other authors in my genre and cross-promoted.
Tried things.


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Annie Bellet said:


> Sure.
> 
> Things I did wrong:
> 
> ...


So... you made all the same mistakes that all newbie authors made, learned from them, and moved up in the world? 

I tease, of course. Well, mostly. I was lucky enough to befriend an extremely well-known author very early in my career, and she beat the dumb newbie mistakes out of me early on. I don't know how I would have coped without her mentorship. Every author should have a mentor.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Oh, I had mentors. They were just the wrong ones when it came to actually making money at writing these days


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Oh no!  Bad mentors are worse than no mentors at all!  LOL.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I stopped working in Jan 2014 -- my contracted ended and I didn't look for another one. I had some savings but didn't want to use them because I had an overseas trip planned. By July, I was earning enough to live on. By October, I was earning to save most of my earnings. I don't earn nearly as much as a lot of romance writers but I don't have a very high cost of living either. 

I've written one romance series, one standalone (that will become a series later this year) and have one book released in another series, book two coming out this week. I made probably 90% of my money on the first series though. I've had two bookbub promos. The first one did well but, to be honest, didn't have a very long tail. I actually had low sales in the two months afterwards. 

The two things that really made a difference for me were 1) releasing the final book in the series and making #1 permafree and 2) going wide and being picked up for an internal ibooks promo (or more than one -- in different territories). I obviously had no control over the second one.

I promote my permafree pretty much every month somewhere but have only had one other bookbub promo.  

One thing I've found is that I've not had a steady climb in income but it's gone up in huge steps then settled for a while.  At the moment, my earnings are on a decline but I'm hoping the new series will push it back up again when I've finished it. Otherwise, I have enough money saved to live comfortably for the rest of the year -- I'm travelling and have prebooks and paid for a lot of my accommodation etc.


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## CelinaGrace (Nov 20, 2013)

Great idea for a thread.

I started indie publishing in 2012 and made the grand total of (I think) about £10.31 in that first month. Cut to January 2014 and I have three books out in a series, plus two standalones. I get a Bookbub on the permafree first in the series, get 125K downloads off the Bookbub ad and from then on I'm earning enough to leave my part-time day job in June of that year.

I now have six books out in that series and am writing the seventh and I've been earning a decent living ever since. I still worry about bills though. This is a) because I have to support a family of four and b) the bloody bills keep getting bigger!


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

I made a similar mistake as others and published blindly for about two years before discovering the Writer's Cafe. I actually made quite a bit of money, but that was due to luck; I happened to ride the original KDP Free boosts that would drop your book into a similar Paid rank. I actually made enough that I quit my job, only to see my income slide into the abyss once my luck ran out and my lack of a real strategy became glaringly obvious. 

I took another job and sat down to read through the WC archives, after which created a pen name and started writing paranormal romances with all the right moves that Annie Bellet listed. Today I'm doing well once more, and am considering quitting my job in July to try writing full time again. It's a bit nerve wrecking, but this time round I really feel like I know what I'm doing.


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## Lucas Bale (Jun 4, 2014)

Annie Bellet said:


> Sure.
> 
> Things I did wrong:
> 
> ...


Brilliant.

In particular "Tried things." The landscape changes from month to month, let alone from year to year. Indies need to be flexible. That's the key. And learn from others.


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Lucas Bale said:


> The landscape changes from month to month, let alone from year to year. Indies need to be flexible. That's the key. And learn from others.


^ This is possibly the most important piece of information in this entire thread. What works today may not work a year from now, or even a week from now. It's frustrating, but very true.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

Five books. Published book Five and made book One permafree on the same day as a Bookbub for the permafree. Was doing alright before that, but this is what really brought in a huge audience. 

And the landscape does change every month, you have to roll with the changes and do whats best for you and your business. That said I'll add that having all of your business stuff set up and running well makes rolling with those changes much easier.

Knowing the changes is what I come here for. I can answer most of the questions being asked here now so I don't need to read every post like I use to. But Kboards is like having your own private army of educated spies/friends watching everything that's going on. I know if I tune in here daily I won't miss any of those changes when they happen.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

I used to be an Emergency Department RN (I guess technically I still am, since I keep up my license haha). I wrote my first book on my lunch breaks and at night after I came home from work at 2am. After the 2nd book, I stopped working full-time and went to per-diem as an RN. After the 3rd book, I quit nursing completely. It took about a year & a half from the time my first book was published.

Like Yoda & No Cat (haha, I still can't think of you two as anything else), I made a lot of mistakes - but I wouldn't change a thing. I'm the stubborn sort of person who needs to actually experience something before I can learn from it. I don't really want to be particular about it here...for reasons. But I will tell you what works for me: 
Facebook (fan page and personal page, I do let fans cross over to my personal page), specifically targeted Facebook Ads, MAILING LIST, MAILING LIST (Yes, I put that twice on purpose), and writing more books. The Golden Ticket in my world is getting a BookBub ad or en ENT ad. I also have the first book in my series as permafree, and I promote it.

That's my game right now, and I will tell you that my writing income is double what I made as an RN - and specialty RNs working per-diem agency in my state make mad money. The writing income continues to grow with each book release.
No regrets.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I had the same issues as Annie. No mailing list and no Facebook were also big mistakes. I was late to the party with both of them.
I would add that I didn't have a regular publushing schedule, I had bad covers and I made the mistake originally that newspaper editing was the same as book editing, after all I knew twenty newspaper editors so they would be fine, right? Wrong.
I don't think I technically made mistakes with what I chose to write. I picked all popular genres. I did make mistakes with branding, though.
Now, on the flip side, I launched a particular pen name with KU in mind in October. I did everything right from the start, and I've managed to get it in the top 3,000 authors on all of Amazon -- and I have a reasonable goal of making it KU bonus eligible in the fall. To me, that's a grand step up for one name in a year compared to all the floundering I did with my main name. Live and learn, though.


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Oh man, KU bonus eligible would be AMAZING.  Good luck!  Right now I'd just settle for convincing Bookbub that I'm worthwhile people.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

V. L. Dreyer said:


> Oh man, KU bonus eligible would be AMAZING. Good luck! Right now I'd just settle for convincing Bookbub that I'm worthwhile people.


I get them for my main name. The pen name is a work in progress. I would totally like to double dip, though.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

I haven't reached what I consider financial success yet--for me that would be at least $10k / month--but I don't work full-time yet because I have small kids and can't.

I do make a respectable income though, especially considering how much I work. It took 3 years of fanfiction, and 3 years of writing original fiction: three short stories, one novella, and 5 full-length books. If I had better covers and studied the market, it would have went faster ... but not by much unless I got full-time child care.

I've had five BookBubs, because they love my covers (seriously, they've featured them   I don't know why either). I promote my permafree, and occasionally other books in my series about once a month.

I'm starting a new trilogy now and it's like jumping off a cliff. I'm trying to do it right this time: I'm writing in third person past tense as is typical for sci-fi, and I'm going to put great big glorious space ships on the covers because that's typical too--and I'm hiring a spaceship artist to do them. I am going to stack my releases. I *MAY* try KU for the first 90 days of each and then release on other vendors because it is so different from what I've done before. I know I'll have some loyal fans that will at least try the first book, but many won't. In some ways it will be like starting from scratch.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

Book 2 of first series, 2 months after publishing book 1. No ads or marketing other than a 5 day Select free run.

I was lucky.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Keith Soares said:


> How many books / years / parts of a series / BookBub ads / whatever did you need before you attained "success"? That's a qualitative term, so I'll try to quantify it. How long until you stopped worrying about things like a job, bills, etc.?


By my calculations, using that definition of "success," I should reach that point on February 26, 2089. If I factor in inflation, though, that bumps it to May 12, 2247. I suspect that, by then, Faceboogle will have gone bankrupt and everyone will be back to using MySpace which will be hosted on servers orbiting Amazon's headquarters on the moon.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Rykymus said:


> I was lucky.


Me too. I wish I could tell what the secret was, but I still haven't figured it out myself yet.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Love this thread. It's fascinating hearing from people like Annie and Amanda. I'm very fortunate in that I followed the prevailing advice right when I started. I set up a mailing list on day one, have published often, use targeted Facebook ads and have always made sure to have professional covers. I'm not quite at the point where I can replace my day job, but I get closer every month. My goal is to quit and go full time in January, and I'm a little ahead of schedule to make that happen.

If there were one thing I could go back and do differently it would be having the 2nd book in my series ready to go before I published the first. Six months between releases was tough, and I'll never do that again.


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Hey Chris, I love the covers of Deathless Origins and Book 2.  Who did your art, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

Just want to reiterate what Chris just said, as I honestly believe that frequent releases (especially in a series) and a mailing list are the best marketing tools out there. Obviously, you can't 'start out' with a mailing list, so the frequent releases in the beginning help to build that mailing list. 

When I start the next part of my series, (it's divided into 5 parts, with each part being a separate set of adventures) I'm going to write the first 3 episodes before I release anything. Then I'll release them on the first day of each quarter, like clockwork, with the ebook, paperback, and audio versions all being released simultaneously. That will give me a 9-month buffer to help relieve the stress when life gets in the way of writing. (Which it always does.)


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Definitely agree with Rykymus and Chris.  I spaced mine out by six months each, and I think I would have done much better if I'd space them out three months apart.  I saw a sales peak in month 2 after each new release which continued through month 3, then in month 4 it dropped off.  By the time the new release came around, sales were very low.  But with each new release, I saw a higher and higher spike of sales in the first month.


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## mrforbes (Feb 16, 2013)

2 years, 11 titles to eclipse my day job salary (I'm a software nerd, so I earn more than I probably deserve). 

I don't post a lot, but I read and absorb a lot. KBoards taught me most of what I know about taking my 'hobby' to the next level.


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## J.J. Thompson (Aug 10, 2013)

Published my first book in July, 2013. Quit my day job this year in March. So that's what, 20 months, I guess? I write fantasy/epic fantasy. Never did do any promos. I guess people just like my stories. My mailing list is tiny, but I still send out an email when I launch a new book.
I'll have to agree with some other posts above and say luck is a huge part of success in this industry. You can follow every rule, do it by the numbers, promo your heart out and still be struggling. It really is a crap shoot.
One thing that I definitely think helps is writing series and releasing frequently. Now that I'm writing full-time, my goal is to release a new novel every two months or so. I'm about to release my next book and it will be almost exactly two months since my last one, so I'm on track so far. Cheers.
J.J.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

Well for me, after only one and a half months, I ran a small promo which covered its cost and gave my lone book a tail.  I'm on target now for May to make enough money to pay my Starbucks bill and, if I'm lucky, I'm thinking I can upgrade from my Venti Blonde each morning to something a bit more pricier... If my tail continues


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

V. L. Dreyer said:


> Hey Chris, I love the covers of Deathless Origins and Book 2. Who did your art, if you don't mind me asking?


The artwork was done by a german named Nikolai Ostertag. The typography was done by Glendon over at Streetlight Graphics. I love the work they do =)



mrforbes said:


> 2 years, 11 titles to eclipse my day job salary (I'm a software nerd, so I earn more than I probably deserve).
> 
> I don't post a lot, but I read and absorb a lot. KBoards taught me most of what I know about taking my 'hobby' to the next level.


M.R. I'm loving Starship Eternal. I can see why it's selling so well. Congratulations!


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

About 6 months for me. 

As I've stated many times, I have no idea why my first book took off. It sold a handful of copies for the first couple of months, and then wham... pow... straight to the moon. I went full-time the next month, and have never looked back.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I should add that I did purposely play the long game in one respect: multiple series. I know a lot of people preach about sticking to one series and getting everything out and then switching to another series, but that is not what I wanted to do. I've seen that backfire on too many people. Readers fall in love with one series and don't want the author to write anything but that series. I trained my readers to expect multiple series from the beginning. I wanted to write more than one series. There's one author I used to read who told everyone she was ending her series at book ten. Even then it felt like she was holding on one book too many. Anyway, she finished the series, and then she tried to launch a side series from a secondary character. The sales were dismal. Then she wrote another book in the first series because she needed an influx of cash. She said it was just a present for her readers. Then she tried to branch off into a romance series and readers balked because they didn't like it. The sales and reviews were bad. I think she's now up to something like 16 books in the first series -- and she does have a great two weeks on releases still -- but the quality seems to be taking a dip and I have to wonder if she's out of ideas for that series and yet it appears she's stuck because that's the only series people want to read. I didn't want to be stuck writing one series -- which is why I purposely staggered my writing schedule.


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

Amanda M. Lee (YodaRead) said:


> I should add that I did purposely play the long game in one respect: multiple series.


I did that, too. I told my readers right from word go that the Survivors series was only going to be four books, and started talking up my other series in the meantime. It's not working so great so far, but I'll get there.

There's nothing I hate more than a series that goes on for too long. I loved Raymond Feist's early books, but... the latest ones, good grief. I stopped reading when he blew up a planet in book 22 or whatever it was. There's a line, and that was it. I think his publisher kept hounding him to write more and more books in the series, even long after the readers stopped caring about the world.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Keith Soares said:


> How long until you stopped worrying about things like a job, bills, etc.?


This is also going to mean different things to different people. When I first published I was at home looking after the kids while my husband worked, so anything on top of our existing income was all just gravy. If I'd had to support myself alone, then it would probably have taken me a bit longer.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

For me, it was almost exactly two years after publishing my first novel that I made enough to replace my day job. I worked a little longer before quitting, though.

What made the (sudden!) change were a few things that happened almost all at once - after building a lengthy back list:
-New covers for my main series
-Getting the first book in that series into the top 100 free
-Pixel of Ink picking up another book (1st in a trilogy) and getting that in the top 100 free also
-Joining a multi-author box set that stayed in the top 100 free for MONTHS
-Continuing to publish monthly has helped to maintain that success


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

everyone that has success has paid books and permafree's.

So I need more than one ebook, I guess


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## Allyson J. (Nov 26, 2014)

I started in November '14. Released two novels in a series (Historical Romance, so that helps). I got new professional covers and ran a Bookbub ad. That really bumped my sales and now they've almost eclipsed what I make at my day job--I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad!

I have a pen name set to debut this summer/fall with a five book series (also HistRom) and I'm working on books 3 & 4 of my main name series. 

Hopefully all that will push me over the earning edge and I can go full time in a year or two! ::fingers crossed::

Bookbub is really the key.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Keith Soares said:


> How many books / years / parts of a series / BookBub ads / whatever did you need before you attained "success"? That's a qualitative term, so I'll try to quantify it. How long until you stopped worrying about things like a job, bills, etc.?
> 
> This is clearly a question focused on those who have excelled... I'm quite curious. I suspect every answer is different, but I wonder where things overlap. Similarities that help others make sense of the madness.
> 
> K.


I started in 2001 publishing paperbacks, I "attained success" by going full time August 1st 2013. BUT, I didn't get into Kindle and start seeing real progress until mid 2011 when I noticed UK authors were allowed to play at KDP. The event that pushed me over the line to full time income (I didn't go full time until months later when my day job went away) was publishing my 7th book.

Luck number 7


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

geronl said:


> everyone that has success has paid books and permafree's.
> 
> So I need more than one ebook, I guess


I've never had a permafree. I do occasional free giveaways -- but I do .99 for the first books in series as a loss leader.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I'm just starting off, my second short book should be a month away. Since I have $0 budget for covers I have been working on that too. I have actually gotten anxiety on not being able to have good covers. I have seen some very creative ones on here from you guys though. (I won't copy, promise)


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## V. L. Dreyer (May 11, 2015)

My friend Nicole does good covers for cheap, you could give her a bell.

https://www.fiverr.com/spellbound/create-a-basic-book-cover-for-you


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## Colorwheel (Nov 21, 2014)

Thank you all for this thread. Asking for advice, I got a lot of sunny "keep it up / your ship will come in / stick to it" comments. I suspected that they were well-meant but not reflective of reality. This backs that up solidly. You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

For me, it was Book 4, which was the first book of my second series. I published Book 1 of Series 1 (Paranormal Romance) in June 2012, Book 2 in July 2012 and Book 3 in November 2012. Not a huge selling series but the series paid my mortgage. I decided to take a break from that series and write Series 2, (Erotic Romance) releasing the first book in the series in April 2013. It took off and I was able to quit my day job in November 2013 after publishing the second book in September 2013. I was making about $14K a month on average from sales of my books at the time I quit.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Colorwheel said:


> Thank you all for this thread. Asking for advice, I got a lot of sunny "keep it up / your ship will come in / stick to it" comments. I suspected that they were well-meant but not reflective of reality. This backs that up solidly. You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


It took me well over two years to make myself a success. In fact, it was almost three years before I saw a big jump in earnings.


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## HN Wake (Feb 24, 2015)

A huge thank you for all that have contributed to this thread!  Just what I needed to read today.


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## Sara C (Apr 30, 2014)

First off, great thread! I've really enjoyed reading everyone's answers. For me it took five years. That being said, I was publishing very, very slowly and not promoting at all in the beginning (never thought I'd make any money). May of last year I started actively "trying". I still publish fairly slowly (one book every 4-6 months), but having a permafree in a four book series is what did it for me. I'm definitely not successful on the level of many others in this thread, but I make more than I did bartending and can write full-time now. I guess I'm in it for the "long game" as others have put it. I published the first book in my second series in March and had a pretty good response from fans of my primary series (they're both in the fantasy genre), so I plan on taking turns publishing books in each series from here on out.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

V. L. Dreyer said:


> My friend Nicole does good covers for cheap


I will keep that in mind! Thanks.

Apparently if I take a public domain starscape off NASA and something else, she will put it together for me for as little as $5. wow.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Colorwheel said:


> Thank you all for this thread. Asking for advice, I got a lot of sunny "keep it up / your ship will come in / stick to it" comments. I suspected that they were well-meant but not reflective of reality. This backs that up solidly. You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


Everyone has a different story to tell about their success.

You can take two authors starting at the same time writing similar books (same genre) and one sells tons of books at the start and the other struggles for months. 
It depends what genre you write in, what pre-release steps you take (research about your genre, getting early reviews, editing, covers, promotions and so on) and if you write a series or standalone and then how quickly you write and release for your audience. I know i have to write and release quickly because NA and contemporary romance readers read fast and they can be very loyal if you give them books they love or sometimes they leave and go elsewhere if you take too long to release the next book.

I think i got lucky because im not the best writer and i don't do a few things i was told i should do (even today i am told i should do this and that), I don't have a mailing list and i barely use social media.

I spoke to one author who released one NA book and sold thousands of copies in the first couple of weeks with very little promotion.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Colorwheel said:


> Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


Or there might be twelve million of them out there, who for one extraordinary reason or another don't happen to be posting on Kboards or on this thread right at this precise moment. This thread does not constitute a representative sample of anything. It's just a few anecdotes.


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## 80593 (Nov 1, 2014)

Colorwheel said:


> Thank you all for this thread. Asking for advice, I got a lot of sunny "keep it up / your ship will come in / stick to it" comments. I suspected that they were well-meant but not reflective of reality. This backs that up solidly. You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


Well, to be fair, you're very unlikely to see ten year success stories among folks who write for a platform that's only existed for five or so...  And there are plenty of stories here from people who started in 2012 or earlier. Three years is hardly overnight.

But I think you're using the wrong metric. I look through this thread and I see an emphasis not on number of months, but on number of books. Personally, if I haven't met my definition of success by the 1 year mark, or the 2 year mark, I'm not going to go dig a hole and lie in it. But if I'm struggling after 5 or 6 books, I need to do some hard evaluation. Those are very different yardsticks, and the amount of time it takes to release 5 books is going to vary widely from person to person.

Sure, there's a lot to be said for momentum, and it's not surprising that people who can release more quickly will find success more quickly. Nonetheless, I think it's more about how much product you have to sell than it is about how long it takes you to bring that product to market, always assuming we're talking about a quality product. It's a lot easier to do well when a reader whose attention you've attracted buys 7 books instead of 2.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Lydniz said:


> Or there might be twelve million of them out there, who for one extraordinary reason or another don't happen to be posting on Kboards or on this thread right at this precise moment. This thread does not constitute a representative sample of anything. It's just a few anecdotes.


Good point. There are so many authors not on Kboards.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

katetanner said:


> Good point. There are so many authors not on Kboards.


Bite your tongue. I refuse to believe in the existence of life outside of KBoards.


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## N.D. Taylor (Jun 17, 2014)

For me, it wasn't until we released Saved by the Dragon under our pen name, that we saw immediate sales higher than anything we ever sold before. We swapped from paranormal romance to paranormal erotica.

Then last month we published a science fiction romance. It outsold the starting sales of all of our other books combined. Then 2 weeks into its release, it suddenly spiked. We were in tears because we've never sold so many full priced books in one day. It was a miracle. It was like magic. I checked my kdp dashboard during a ceremony I was at, because speeches are boring, and then was almost reduced to tears when I saw how our book took off. 

Bookbub won't have me. I've submitted time after time, every month. They don't like my covers or my blurbs. I don't know what I need to change to get them to take me seriously, but it CAN be done without them.

It's only harder to do it that way.

If anyone has any tips for how to get in on BookBub, I would absolutely love to know. I feel like I just need another little shove to get where I want to be. I don't have any illusions of writing full time as my main job, but the sudden bound ahead on the success train has been motivating these past weeks.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

ebbrown said:


> Bite your tongue. I refuse to believe in the existence of life outside of KBoards.


Funny.

I came from another forum which i wont mention and i see so many authors that i read (buy their books) or talk to on blogs who are not members on here or the forum i use to hang out on.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Colorwheel said:


> Thank you all for this thread. Asking for advice, I got a lot of sunny "keep it up / your ship will come in / stick to it" comments. I suspected that they were well-meant but not reflective of reality. This backs that up solidly. You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


It took me five years... Sure, the part where I succeeded finally (for now, it could all change, ha) was only a few months of work, but without learning how to do everything wrong and making all the mistakes, I wouldn't have gotten there. I mean, I wished I'd been smarter sooner, sure, but I am not going to cry over the spilled milk  (there's also the part where I learned how to write books in those years, taking over a dozen craft workshops including one that lasted 6 weeks of intense work).

I do think that you can tell within 3 books into a series if *that* series is going to make any kind of money. Once you've got three books, if cheap lead-in and/or perma-free combined with some ads aren't working... I think often your time would be better spent on something fresh rather than trying to push more books into a series that doesn't sell. But that's also if your goal is mainly to sell books. Being unafraid to keep testing waters with new stuff and abandoning things that are failing to perform is tough, but worked out finally for me.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

katetanner said:


> Funny.
> 
> I came from another forum which i wont mention and i see so many authors that i read (buy their books) or talk to on blogs who are not members on here or the forum i use to hang out on.


Anecdotally, many of the indies who have joined SFWA in the last couple months aren't here either, or may be here but just lurking. And I've seen a lot of books in the top 100 lists on Amazon that I haven't seen in signature lines hereabouts. That may not mean much, but I'm confident there are way, way more indie writers than are represented on kboards.


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## Anya Monroe (Dec 3, 2014)

This is a great thread, it's incredibly encouraging to be reminded that things take time. I've only been at it since February and have made so many novice mistakes it's not even funny. Thankfully I have had the fortune of finding supportive writers willing to hold my hand as I've stumbled around in the dark.

I can't wait to quit my day job. Which, as a stay-at-home-mom basically means I can't wait to have the cash to hire someone to help me clean the house….


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

3rd on my list is finishing KITA, a story I started a while back. I will definitely be needing some sort of cat-like girl on the cover.


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## MarilynVix (Jun 19, 2013)

Sela said:


> For me, it was Book 4, which was the first book of my second series. I published Book 1 of Series 1 (Paranormal Romance) in June 2012, Book 2 in July 2012 and Book 3 in November 2012. Not a huge selling series but the series paid my mortgage. I decided to take a break from that series and write Series 2, (Erotic Romance) releasing the first book in the series in April 2013. It took off and I was able to quit my day job in November 2013 after publishing the second book in September 2013. I was making about $14K a month on average from sales of my books at the time I quit.


I'm enjoying the stories behind everyone's success. I feel like I'm right at that breaking point. I started in another genre that wasn't selling, switched to paranormal romance. This sells OK, but still kept me at the prawnie sales rank. Now, I've started a new pen name with erotic romance, and it's selling. So, I'm really concentrating writing the erotic shorts that are selling, and putting my paranormal romance into a box set. All the suggestions and things not to try are helping a lot. BookBub still seems the way to go. Too bad they don't take erotica. Wish they did.

I've got to take some time off work for medical issues, and I'm trying to find another income that I can do with my medical limitations. I've got a year to find out. Savings will help, but I've got to try to get some income to help what I'm losing giving up the day job. I mean, health is first. You can't write dead. But having to give this a serious go is going to be interesting. Thanks for letting me know what works.

So far, I've been on medical leave for 3 months. I've moved up to bronze badge sales. If I get a steady climb, I just need enough to pay for the mortgage, which is what my pay check paid for. I'm hoping I can make that over several more months or at least by next Spring. So, any tips will be appreciated. And of course, wish me luck. I'm going to need it.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I have to agree with everyone discussing multiple series. I have two that are doing well, and that makes a big difference. I also have one "series" with two books that almost never sells. I just started a new series and it's too early to tell how that will do. I have the next two books already written, so I'll find out soon enough.

Another thing I want to add is that changing genres doesn't mean you HAVE to get a pen name. (Unless you're going from YA to erotica, or something else drastic.) I can't tell you how many times a reader has said they never read [genre] but gave it a try because they like my other books - and really liked it.


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## CrissyM (Mar 14, 2012)

This is a fantastic thread. Thanks for all the great info guys.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Anya Monroe said:


> I can't wait to quit my day job. Which, as a stay-at-home-mom basically means I can't wait to have the cash to hire someone to help me clean the house....


Heh. That's the first thing I shelled out for when I started earning, Anya.


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## TaxationIsTheft (Apr 15, 2015)

Amanda M. Lee (YodaRead) said:


> I should add that I did purposely play the long game in one respect: multiple series. I know a lot of people preach about sticking to one series and getting everything out and then switching to another series, but that is not what I wanted to do. I've seen that backfire on too many people. Readers fall in love with one series and don't want the author to write anything but that series. I trained my readers to expect multiple series from the beginning. I wanted to write more than one series.


I'm doing the same thing. Even though I've only released one book so far, I've been very upfront from the beginning that this is a four-book series. I'm releasing a stand alone in between books 2 and 3, just to make it clear that I'm not going to remain in one world. I'm hoping it doesn't bit me in the rear end, but it's what makes sense to me.

And thanks everyone for your responses in this thread--it gives us newbies a lot of hope!


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Annie Bellet said:


> (there's also the part where I learned how to write books in those years, taking over a dozen craft workshops including one that lasted 6 weeks of intense work).


You're talking about Clarion, right? I'm hoping to go in 2016 =)


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I sold one. Yay.  

At this rate I'll get new socks for Christmas.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Chris Fox said:


> You're talking about Clarion, right? I'm hoping to go in 2016 =)


Yep. Clarion UCSD in 2011 for me. It was a mixed experience over all. Learned some things, but it stopped up my writing and depressed me for a while after (this is something that happens to a lot of Clarion grads, I guess). I'd recommend it for anyone writing short SF/fantasy stories though who is at the level where they are getting personal rejections but not cracking into the markets regularly.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

AubreyGross said:


> I'm doing the same thing. Even though I've only released one book so far, I've been very upfront from the beginning that this is a four-book series. I'm releasing a stand alone in between books 2 and 3, just to make it clear that I'm not going to remain in one world. I'm hoping it doesn't bit me in the rear end, but it's what makes sense to me.


I have also gone this route. From the beginning, I've written 4 distinctly different series in 4 different but semi-related genres.


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## Kevin Lee Swaim (May 30, 2014)

Keith Soares said:


> How many books / years / parts of a series / BookBub ads / whatever did you need before you attained "success"? That's a qualitative term, so I'll try to quantify it. How long until you stopped worrying about things like a job, bills, etc.?
> 
> This is clearly a question focused on those who have excelled... I'm quite curious. I suspect every answer is different, but I wonder where things overlap. Similarities that help others make sense of the madness.
> 
> K.


I'll let you know once I've made it.

Oh, wait, you said it's focused on those who have excelled....


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't feel like I've achieved success yet, and maybe that's a good thing. Keeps me hungry.   But in the last 1 1/2 year, I've started seeing good progress.  My books aren't going to sky-rocket but they seem to be building to a slow ascent. I've got a new series starting and the 1st in that was just accepted into the Scout program. I'm currently working on the 5th in the 1st series and plotting the 2nd in the 2nd series. And now I've managed to confuse myself. 
But long story short, I'm not there but I feel like I've got a map to where "there" is and I'm heading in the right direction. Onward!


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## LindsayBuroker (Oct 13, 2013)

I got to the replace-the-day-job point after about a year (I think 5 novels and some shorter stuff out at that point), but things are a lot more comfortable now that I have more books out (20+) and more series, so I can alternate with promotions and have the chance to appeal to more readers. You start to get that many books out there, and even if you're only selling a hundred copies of each one a month, you're making pretty good and reliable money. Also, in my experience, you'll tend to have a couple of outliers that perform much better than the others, and that can bring up sales across the board.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Stacy Claflin said:


> Another thing I want to add is that changing genres doesn't mean you HAVE to get a pen name. (Unless you're going from YA to erotica, or something else drastic.) I can't tell you how many times a reader has said they never read [genre] but gave it a try because they like my other books - and really liked it.


What about if one is writing in every genre, except erotica? _Maaaaaybe_ romance (will be a serious testing of waters).

What's left of the genres is still quite varied, and not to everybody's tastes. Do you think though, that its still safe to use only one name/pen name? And that there's no need to branch out with 6-7 different pen names in order to umbrella cover most other main genres?


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## Anya Monroe (Dec 3, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> Heh. That's the first thing I shelled out for when I started earning, Anya.


I can't wait to be you when I start earning out. I also heard someone mentioning dropping off clothing at the dry cleaners and never washing or folding again in their life. That is my second life goal. I know, dream big.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

katetanner said:


> Funny.
> 
> I came from another forum which i wont mention and i see so many authors that i read (buy their books) or talk to on blogs who are not members on here or the forum i use to hang out on.


JK. Of course there are authors in other places on the 'net.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Gaulvinov said:


> What about if one is writing in every genre, except erotica? _Maaaaaybe_ romance (will be a serious testing of waters).
> 
> What's left of the genres is still quite varied, and not to everybody's tastes. Do you think though, that its still safe to use only one name/pen name? And that there's no need to branch out with 6-7 different pen names in order to umbrella cover most other main genres?


I'm not against pen names, and certainly it's up to everyone to decide for themselves if the genres are far enough apart to warrant one. I'm planning on writing some middle grade and maybe Christian fiction. I don't want those under the same name as my suspense / paranormal romance / contemporary romance.

If you're writing all over the place and don't want six pen names (I certainly wouldn't want to keep up with that many!) figure out how you can lump similar ones together into two or three. That would be a lot more manageable.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I wouldn't recommend having six pen names unless you are very very prolific mostly because writing a bunch of totally unrelated stuff, if your goal is to make money at this, is kind of a bad idea...


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## mrforbes (Feb 16, 2013)

> M.R. I'm loving Starship Eternal. I can see why it's selling so well. Congratulations!


Thanks, Chris! 

I also started out writing multiple series (as you can see in my sig). Since it's all spec-fic, I do get a fair amount of crossover. I didn't do it as any kind of business plan, I just get bored writing the same thing all the time.


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee (YodaRead) said:


> I should add that I did purposely play the long game in one respect: multiple series. I know a lot of people preach about sticking to one series and getting everything out and then switching to another series, but that is not what I wanted to do. I've seen that backfire on too many people. Readers fall in love with one series and don't want the author to write anything but that series. I trained my readers to expect multiple series from the beginning. I wanted to write more than one series. There's one author I used to read who told everyone she was ending her series at book ten. Even then it felt like she was holding on one book too many. Anyway, she finished the series, and then she tried to launch a side series from a secondary character. The sales were dismal. Then she wrote another book in the first series because she needed an influx of cash. She said it was just a present for her readers. Then she tried to branch off into a romance series and readers balked because they didn't like it. The sales and reviews were bad. I think she's now up to something like 16 books in the first series -- and she does have a great two weeks on releases still -- but the quality seems to be taking a dip and I have to wonder if she's out of ideas for that series and yet it appears she's stuck because that's the only series people want to read. I didn't want to be stuck writing one series -- which is why I purposely staggered my writing schedule.


Just to be sure. do you stagger your writing schedule by writing a new book in each each series each time you write one after the other or did you write a couple of books in one series and then a couple in another?


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> You're talking about Clarion, right? I'm hoping to go in 2016 =)


Clarion is my secret dream. I started out writing SFF shorts and did a round of submissions to the main SF mags (F&SF, Asimov's, and a few online) and got close but no cigar. Sold two short fantasy stories to online venues for peanuts, but didn't crack the big boys. I was always hoping to do Clarion but 6 weeks away was a long time for a full-time worker and mother of two tweens. Now that I am a full-time author and my two boys are teens, I could take the time off. I may have to apply this year for 2016 with two of my best SF short stories.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

What a great thread everyone. Thank you for giving me a good kick in the pants to stick with it.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

Anya Monroe said:


> I can't wait to be you when I start earning out. I also heard someone mentioning dropping off clothing at the dry cleaners and never washing or folding again in their life. That is my second life goal. I know, dream big.


When my son was young, I used a laundry service. I'd leave a bag of clothes out when I left for work in the morning and they'd deliver them clean and folded. It cost about $20 for a garbage bag of clothes. It was awesome!


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


Uh ... I don't think that is true. Like I said, I'm not made it yet to $10k a month, but after six years, I'm doing fairly well (and I have the wrong covers, too ... this year I'm fixing them!) I'm only able to work part-time, so I cannot have the production that some people have. It is happening to me though, just more slowly.


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## TBD (Mar 14, 2014)

katetanner said:


> Good point. There are so many authors not on Kboards.


A friend of mine posted this on his website, so putting a link here should be okay. And don't worry... there is nothing for sale here ;-) Everything is on the page.

While he used ghostwriters initially, as I understand, he moved away from that fairly quickly. I believe he wrote the majority himself.

He wrote 2k/day after work (he has two online businesses) and after his quota of words was done, he outlined the next book. He pubbed a new book every ten days. He started in NAR and then moved into writing his own spec fic and horror

One of his businesses is FB marketing and he did use FB ads

http://www.mikeshreeve.com/sell-978-fiction-ebooks-per-day-complete-guide/


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I sold 3 books at Amazon in 2.8 days

Socks for everyone on Christmas!!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all. Note the lack of the "10 year overnight success" stories that people love to tout. They do not seem to actually happen.


I'm also not sure where this comes from because as far as I'm concerned , it couldn't more untrue.

Many of the writers who made it big when self publishing first started had slogged for years in the trad industry. It's just that self publishing never became a viable option for many until very recently (consequently, there are no stories about people making it after ten years of self publishing, because there are no such people). I'm not talking about pioneers, but about those who were trying not to burn any bridges with hard won invites from publishers to submit their next work, and then having to decide to do this or selfpub. That's only become a widely acceptable route very recently.

Behind most (not all, but most) bestselling careers, you will find a writer who has been writing and practicing craft for years. Most of these writers (again, not all, but most) will have been fairly conservative either in holding back their key work in case a publisher might be interested, or in terms of wanting to make the work better before pushing the button.

I'm not really a success ... oh, wait, I sold about 800 books last month. Not sure how that happened. Because for some, success is a gradual thing that sneaks up slowly, and not a thing that strikes in broad daylinght. You keep shifting the goalposts, too. Last year's great sales are this year's dud sales.

I do speak for the slow burn method of doing multiple series at the same time. When things start to lift, they really do start to lift.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I love those _Ambassador_ covers


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## Guest (May 14, 2015)

Colorwheel said:


> You succeed immediately (within 1 year or so) or not at all.


As someone who has been at this for 2 years and still hasn't "made it" I think that is really depressing. So are you saying if we're not earning enough to support ourselves after a year, we never will? Wow.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I'm not against pen names, and certainly it's up to everyone to decide for themselves if the genres are far enough apart to warrant one. I'm planning on writing some middle grade and maybe Christian fiction. I don't want those under the same name as my suspense / paranormal romance / contemporary romance.
> 
> If you're writing all over the place and don't want six pen names (I certainly wouldn't want to keep up with that many!) figure out how you can lump similar ones together into two or three. That would be a lot more manageable.


Thanks for your thoughts Stacy

You are probably right, its better to fuse some of the more close ones genre-wise and use 3 at most. I made 6 because I was afraid of what any potential readers may think/react.



Annie Bellet said:


> I wouldn't recommend having six pen names unless you are very very prolific mostly because writing a bunch of totally unrelated stuff, if your goal is to make money at this, is kind of a bad idea...


It was out of fear. Readers can be overly critical, especially if a given author changes genre and the next book is not in the genre they read.

Of course, every writer at the end of the day wants to earn money from their work. But I was already writing in varied genre long before I even considered giving self-publishing any serious thought. I already have a of works on my hand that just wait publishing once developmentally completed. I think it would be a worse idea to just delete them.

Perhaps 6 is too many pen names, like Stacy also said above, but I'd like to be on the safe side. If (other than erotica) I've touched on every other genre, that would make things a too varied/different for the comfort of the average reader (depending on what genre I start in first when publishing). The pen names were supposed to be a fail-safe mechanism for reader backlash.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

You know the time you spend sorting out ads and booking them, and other promo stuff? Double that for each pen name. I don't have the time to do all that, so no more pen names.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Gaulvinov said:


> Thanks for your thoughts Stacy
> 
> You are probably right, its better to fuse some of the more close ones genre-wise and use 3 at most. I made 6 because I was afraid of what any potential readers may think/react.
> 
> ...


My point was that unless you are incredibly prolific, managing to release regularly in six different genres is likely a recipe for failure or burn-out. Odds are fair that you'd just end up not doing enough in any one genre to see real results, which if you were trying to make a living, might prove really frustrating.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee (YodaRead) said:


> I should add that I did purposely play the long game in one respect: multiple series. I know a lot of people preach about sticking to one series and getting everything out and then switching to another series, but that is not what I wanted to do. I've seen that backfire on too many people. Readers fall in love with one series and don't want the author to write anything but that series.


This is definitely something I'm aiming to emulate. I don't want all my eggs in one basket as I believe that could make it very difficult for you moving forward. I want it to be clear from when I first publish that I have more than one thing going on, I'm not just the guy who writes, I don't know, the Vampire series of books, or whatever. (I haven't written a vampire book..!)


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

It depends on what you mean by "gaining traction." I think I made my first $1000 four months after I started publishing, with several novellas, but I gained some real traction(like, #1 book in my subcategories) with my brand new 3rd pen name, with no subscribers waiting for the book's release. 

So my advice is if the pen name isn't gaining traction, it's worth trying something else. Obviously there's a risk of failing and wasting your time, and every writer should consider the risks carefully before making such a decision. Even though I basically abandoned my first pen name, it still makes me $150 a month, so maybe if I kept writing for it, it would have gained traction too. But I'm not a very patient person, and my decision to get a new pen name has worked for me: in less than half a year my 3rd pen name alone made ~$60,000 for me. Sometimes the risk is worth it, but sometimes not.


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## mgilmour (Apr 13, 2015)

This is a brilliant thread and so encouraging!
I've just recently published my own book and so far it's been selling quite well.....although not enough to retire on yet! I guess the secret is to just keep on writing. 

I caught the flu recently....not good but it gave me some time to really think about the self-publishing industry. What is difficult is that you want to promote your work but really can't due to spamming everyone (which is never good). Without a big ad budget it's really difficult to get cut through. Any thoughts? My only solution was to build a website for SciFi and Fantasy authors to help each other promote their books. It almost seems that if you can get a Bookbubs advert then you'll instantly skyrocket up the rankings and move on from there. Is anyone else struggling with the same promotional avenues that I am here?


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Two months, three novellas. Got extremely lucky and found success right out the gate. 

BUT, and this is a huge one, I spent months researching the market before I wrote my first book. So maybe that helped.


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## Christine Tate (Feb 24, 2014)

I'd like to stress the importance of marketing.  When I published my first book in August of 2013, I expected the "magic" of the internet to take over because it was listed on Amazon.  Then reality set in.  Nothing.  Nada.  Zip.  By Christmas 2013, I made it my new year's resolution to treat this like I would any other business and conduct a coordinated marketing campaign.  As soon as I started marketing in January of 2014, I had 92 sales that month.  Since then I've had steady and consistent monthly sales that are up 59% so far this year.  I attribute the 59% growth this year to the fact that I have a series.  Book 1 new customer sales are still relatively consistent, but then people who finish book 1 roll into book 2 and those who finish book 2 roll into book 3 and those who finish book 3 roll into book 4, etc.  New customers are important, but you've got to have something to feed repeat customers if you want to see real growth.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I published my first book in Feb 2014. Book 1 in a x5 books urban fantasy series. I had zero expectations, but knew the genre well. I looked at covers and prices, and emulated the UF books in the best sellers lists. First month, I sold 29 copies. Second month, 50. For me, back then, this was amazing!

I've since sold 14,000 books (without Bookbub. Sales not freebies). With every new release in that series, sales increased exponentially.

But, in that time, the market has changed. Amazon has dampened the effect of promo spikes, KU appeared in Oct (?), and pre-orders are now an option (visibility vs release day splurge). Could I do the same if I started from scratch today? I don't know, because the market is different.

I have not been able to get into Bookbub (just been declined again today), UF falls under Fantasy and PNR which are two extremely competitive lists to get into (100+ reviews required, usually). But I've used Freebooksy, ENT & Midlist. I recently switched to permafree and took my novels out of KU, and I'm seeing good sales across Apple and B&N (enough that I won't be going back to KU).

I know I need to maximise on my existing series (now complete) by working on prequels, short stories, spin-offs etc, but after burn-out, I'm writing something in a completely different genre. This is the wrong thing to do, if it was all about the money, but for me, it's not. I'm experimenting with short novels (45k) in KU - dipping my toe in, so to speak. And so far, my experiment has already paid for itself (so yes, the money helps  )

I'm looking at a good year financially, but I'm constantly striving for more. I see authors rocking the charts, and I want to be there.

Success a year ago was maybe a hundred book a month, now it's over $2000 a month, next year who knows? My goal posts keep changing.

*It takes hard work, persistence and a bit of luck. There are no guarantees. *


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

geronl said:


> I love those _Ambassador_ covers


Thank you. I read this thread several times and only just saw this.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Christine Tate said:


> I'd like to stress the importance of marketing. When I published my first book in August of 2013, I expected the "magic" of the internet to take over because it was listed on Amazon. Then reality set in. Nothing. Nada. Zip. By Christmas 2013, I made it my new year's resolution to treat this like I would any other business and conduct a coordinated marketing campaign. As soon as I started marketing in January of 2014, I had 92 sales that month. Since then I've had steady and consistent monthly sales that are up 59% so far this year. I attribute the 59% growth this year to the fact that I have a series. Book 1 new customer sales are still relatively consistent, but then people who finish book 1 roll into book 2 and those who finish book 2 roll into book 3 and those who finish book 3 roll into book 4, etc. New customers are important, but you've got to have something to feed repeat customers if you want to see real growth.


I'll echo this. The marketplace is more crowded every day, and your marketing campaign is more important than ever. I can track the vast majority of my sales to specific marketing efforts. Had I not spent time coming up with a good marketing campaign I seriously doubt I'd have gained much traction.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

I published my first in June, 2013. I had my first five-figure month the sixth month after I started, but that was due to a successful BB ad on my freebie, Beautiful Illusions. At that time, I just had the three books in that series, so I was blown away by the results. But that was the only five-figure month I had for several more months. 

I completed my second series. Things were okay, then two things happened at once in May 2014, and the whole thing exploded - I got my second BB ad for Beautiful Illusions, and the first book in my second series was finally made free across the board. That helped me put together a run where I made five figures every month for almost a solid year, and I made around 140k last year. 

Cut to now. My third series didn't do as well, my last BB ad for Beautiful Illusions was meh, and BB won't touch "Broken" which is by far my most successful series. The whole thing has sadly run out of steam, and I have few options left to get things back up to where they were before. I'm hanging my hat on my most current series, which is the "Exposure" series - I haven't started to promote it yet, and it's not finished, so, hopefully, when I finish the series and promote it, it'll take off. REALLY keeping my fingers crossed that BB will take the freebie in that series. But, if it the series doesn't take off....well, it's back to the drawing board. I have some good ideas for my next series, so I'll hang my hat on that. And the series after that. Etc. 

Moral of the story? You have to be like a shark and keep moving. Keep studying the market, keep writing, keep promoting. Don't ever think that you got it made because you've had a few really good months, and try to sock away as much as you can from those fat months. It could all be gone tomorrow.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## Christine Tate (Feb 24, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> I'll echo this. The marketplace is more crowded every day, and your marketing campaign is more important than ever. I can track the vast majority of my sales to specific marketing efforts. Had I not spent time coming up with a good marketing campaign I seriously doubt I'd have gained much traction.


Yes, I see the same direct correlation with my numbers. When I do something, numbers immediately go up. If I take a week off or get too busy with life to do something else, numbers immediately go down. Then I see the dip, go "Oh, right, I have to keep the momentum up." do something else and the numbers go back up. This isn't just a normal cycle because if I don't keep the marketing efforts going, the dip just stays flat or continues down. Gotta put the elbow grease in if you want to see things move.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I posted my story on Google Play as a PDF, ugh, I cannot see anyone wanting to read THAT on their phone. Full size pages that have to be zoomed in might make sense, if it wasn't 85 full sized pages.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

lilywhite said:


> Any idea why?


No clue. I submitted it with the old cover, which was a traditional "couple in love" cover, and they wouldn't take it. I still think that maybe changing the cover now might give it more of a chance, but I don't know.

What I think it is, though, is that it really doesn't fit into any of the lesser romance categories. I always try to put it into NA, but it's not really that. It's not erotic romance, either, nor paranormal. It's really contemporary romance, and that category is waaaayyyyy too competitive. I don't know, it's just a theory. That's why my newest series has a lead-in that's erotic romance, no bones about it. Hopefully I can get an in that way with my new series.


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## BobPage (Mar 16, 2012)

mgilmour said:


> This is a brilliant thread and so encouraging!
> I've just recently published my own book and so far it's been selling quite well.....although not enough to retire on yet! I guess the secret is to just keep on writing.
> 
> I caught the flu recently....not good but it gave me some time to really think about the self-publishing industry. What is difficult is that you want to promote your work but really can't due to spamming everyone (which is never good). Without a big ad budget it's really difficult to get cut through. Any thoughts? My only solution was to build a website for SciFi and Fantasy authors to help each other promote their books. It almost seems that if you can get a Bookbubs advert then you'll instantly skyrocket up the rankings and move on from there. Is anyone else struggling with the same promotional avenues that I am here?


I'm struggling. I just bought an ad here on Kboards, we will see how that pans out. At this point I'm not looking for $$$ I am just looking to have people sample my work. You are not alone. This is a nut that is hard to "crack" & this is most likely true with any art form...in my opinion.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

As soon as I got the hang of proper meta data and marketing, which was in February 2015, roughly one year after publishing my first novella. I have 28 titles in my KDP bookshelf right now, four of which are collected editions of series. I have never had a bookbub ad because what I write is too short for them, but now that I have a nice chunk of reviews on one of my collected editions, I will give that a shot. My marketing strategy consists of coupling KDP Free promo days with a handful of paid ads, like Freebooksy and a few others. 

Over the past month, my daily income has finally begun to exceed what it was at my old full-time desk job (that paid a decent salary for my area).


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

How short is too short?

I saw a sci-fi story that was about 19 pages, Kindle pages, for 99 cents. Seems a bit short to me. (only had 1 review) I think that author should combine a bunch of parts of that into one.


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## JVRudnick (Sep 12, 2014)

wow...great thread here...

I have written and published non-fiction for decades using the traditional pub model...and my fiction is as yet - unpublished. I gave myself 12 months to find an agent, now only 5 left...

If I do not find one - then I'm going to self-pub and will spend the next few months "studying" what you all are doing here and this thread has been helpful to say the least...

Oh - someone mentionned Clarion - I have never been able to afford the 6 weeks - but 11 years ago I was accepted at Jim Gunn's SciFi 2 week course over at the U of Kansas and it was only a family issue that made me miss it - but it is WELL worth the investigation by any of you sciFi authors here - http://www.sfcenter.ku.edu/

Lastly, I do hope to chime in again in a year or so with my own 'success' story right here! Kudos to all of you who've found the passion to not only write - but to market your works too!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

This whole board is very helpful!

((okay, NOT QUITE the whole board))


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## J.T. Williams (Aug 7, 2014)

Salvador Mercer said:


> Well for me, after only one and a half months, I ran a small promo which covered its cost and gave my lone book a tail. I'm on target now for May to make enough money to pay my Starbucks bill and, if I'm lucky, I'm thinking I can upgrade from my Venti Blonde each morning to something a bit more pricier... If my tail continues


Add a shot of espresso. You might peak your daily word count.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

J.T. Williams said:


> Add a shot of espresso. You might peak your daily word count.


Will do!


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## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

I love to hear other people's success stories! By the end of the first year I was making more than I'd ever made at any job. I did that by pre-writing several of the first books in a series, releasing them within a month of each other, doing several blog tours, enrolling in KDP for the first six months... and that's about it. Oh, this is the spot where I gained an education. I definitely would have had a steep learning curve without this board. Instead, I knew I had to get professional covers and editing from the very beginning and have a mailing list!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

One thing I took from this, is that I shouldn't quit 4 days after posting my story. lol


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## Colorwheel (Nov 21, 2014)

BobPage said:


> I'm struggling. I just bought an ad here on Kboards, we will see how that pans out. At this point I'm not looking for $$$ I am just looking to have people sample my work. You are not alone. This is a nut that is hard to "crack" & this is most likely true with any art form...in my opinion.


Best of luck with the ad!

But no, you aren't quite alone. If you have a few thousand downloads, check out the Prawns thread. If you're under that, well, you've got me and... nobody. 

Don't say out loud that money is not your main concern, or ever use the A-word (art). It's not socially acceptable here.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Annie Bellet said:


> My point was that unless you are incredibly prolific, managing to release regularly in six different genres is likely a recipe for failure or burn-out. Odds are fair that you'd just end up not doing enough in any one genre to see real results, which if you were trying to make a living, might prove really frustrating.


Oh, okay, I get what you meant now.

Well, I don't know actually. I never planned to release things very quickly. Some authors here release one title per 6 months at the closest and still do fine. I guess I will try doing things one-directional for a while :/


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I have a lot of half-finished stories. So if I "release" a bunch in a short time, it's not because I lost what little sanity I got left.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

geronl said:


> One thing I took from this, is that I shouldn't quit 4 days after posting my story. lol


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## BobPage (Mar 16, 2012)

"Don't say out loud that money is not your main concern, or ever use the A-word (art). It's not socially acceptable here." ~Colorwheel~

Well. I am a gauche


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I don't count the time so much as the number of reinventions it took. 

In round 1, I trad-pubbed some misc stuff that didn't do well - mostly because of my scattered approach. I spent a year sharpening my skills, while counting rejection letters, and exploring publishing alternatives (ebooks and digital publishers). I rate that experience 1 star. 

In round 2, I switched gears completely. I studied the market, paid attention to what my target readers wanted, found KBoards, self-published, changed genres, rebranded, experimented with pricing, wrote series books, increased release frequency, got a mailing list, and started advertising. That year was a big improvement but I wasn't there yet. Experience rating: 2 stars.

In my third reboot, I took a new pen name, a different genre, closer releases, permafree, more advertising than ever. Experience rating: 4 1/2 stars. (I'm saving that last half star in case I ever have another rebirth that merits it.) 

To say it only took three years for me to get from level 1 to level 3 would be deceptive, because it took around a decade of writing and a year of queries and rejections just to reach that 1 star phase. And I was super happy to reach that first level, amazed and grateful to arrive at the next, and overjoyed at meeting the third. For the past two years, I've been maintaining 3rd level status but, like Annie J. noted above, it can all go away at any time. Old strategies grow less effective, new ones pop up, and if you don't keep adapting you stop growing and move back two spaces.


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## Guest (May 15, 2015)

Success and traction are 2 different things.

Traction is like the 'chance' for success. I remember the first time I got 'traction'. 

I had one book ranked around 5,000 paid in the store without promo. It was more than a few weeks old as well. It went from 190k to 5k in 2 days just by putting it in select. Then I went to work and put out books 2 and 3. All super short stuff.

Two months later I made 4000 in one month. That was December.

In the past 2 months I've made more than 10000 each month. 

Years? December 2012 - December 2014 = 2 years (published)

Books? Including shorts and novels, probably 25 + over several names

Parts of a series - ONE was all it needed to gain traction in the RIGHT series

Bookbub Ads - No bookbub ads. No advertising at all.


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## JoshuaFinancial (Apr 26, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Success and traction are 2 different things.
> 
> ...ONE was all it needed to gain traction in the RIGHT series
> 
> Bookbub Ads - No bookbub ads. No advertising at all.


Great point. Thanks for the insight @ShaneJeffery 
If the plan is earn a living, it's a good idea to start with the readers in mind. 
We should all be thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead.


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## danpadavona (Sep 25, 2014)

I always appreciate threads such as these. I've been writing for a little over a year, and after 3 published books I've barely made $300. I'm staying patient and continuing to write, but sometimes it seems like I'm conducting an orchestra in the middle of the forest.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

danpadavona said:


> I always appreciate threads such as these. I've been writing for a little over a year, and after 3 published books I've barely made $300. I'm staying patient and continuing to write, but sometimes it seems like I'm conducting an orchestra in the middle of the forest.


Well I must be one of your musicians then


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## AJ_Powers (Apr 13, 2011)

I am encouraged by this thread. My first release has only been out two weeks, but it has been doing well (or so I am told based on my rankings) for debut authors. But now things are starting to slow down (no sales in a couple days, only a couple borrows). I was starting to get pretty discouraged but I see a lot of "Not many sales for a while then BAM, sales overnight" and that's encouraging  - I have started a sequel to my book, and even though the first one took over a year to get out, I am striving to get this one out by November. Being a husband, father of an infant and toddler, and working in an industry that is quite unpredictable with "crunch", I can't even begin to say that I can put a book out ever 4 or 6 months...Well I can say, actually, that it won't happen unless it's a short story or maybe a novella. Could probably crank those out every month or two (and I might).

Again, it's very encouraging. I do my own cover art, and occasionally for other people I know. I am thinking I might try to diversify some income by doing some more cover art for people and then my book sales. Who knows? Maybe it'll be crazy enough to work some day


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

AJ, almost everyone goes into this with the attitude that we can't produce books every 4-6 months. I know that terrified me. Yet here I am just seven months in and I'm getting a book out every three months, far faster than I ever thought possible. I work sixty hours a week at a San Francisco startup, but I still find the time.

It's all about being as efficient as possible, which comes from practice and experimentation. In a year I bet you'll be doing things that seem impossible right now =)


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## J.A. Cipriano (May 27, 2014)

I'm not successful, but I can speak about speed if that is your goal. My first book took me over a year to write. My second one about six months. I just hit 51k yesterday in a book I started writing on 4/23.  My last book took me 23 days to write (57k). They aren't the long tomes some people here produce, and I'm not saying they are good or bad, but word count is word count. 

If you want to write fast, you need to find what works for you. Whether it be sprints, outlines, pantsing, whatever it is. Also, try Chris' app, and hey if you're feeling spry check out the book 2k to 10k, it's worth the .99 or Libby Hawker's take off your pants and outline.


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## danpadavona (Sep 25, 2014)

Salvador Mercer said:


> Well I must be one of your musicians then


LOL


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## AJ_Powers (Apr 13, 2011)

Chris Fox said:


> AJ, almost everyone goes into this with the attitude that we can't produce books every 4-6 months. I know that terrified me. Yet here I am just seven months in and I'm getting a book out every three months, far faster than I ever thought possible. I work sixty hours a week at a San Francisco startup, but I still find the time.
> 
> It's all about being as efficient as possible, which comes from practice and experimentation. In a year I bet you'll be doing things that seem impossible right now =)


Thanks  I do the usual 40 hour week, but have two crazy kids. So I don't write until after they are in bed, and by that time I am usually beat! But I am going to have to just power through that exhaustion and start getting more out there. Grant it, my first book I took about a 2-3 month hiatus due to freelance art work that poured in, plus my son's birth and countless visits from family out of town. So hopefully things will get a bit smoother on this one


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## TiffanyLambert (Mar 7, 2015)

Threads like this make me simultaneously motivated and intimidated. I'm in a position where I have a fulltime solo entrepreneurial career that earns 6 figures, but it's not what I want. I want fiction. A couple of years ago I wrote one short story in a series called The Feast (dystopian). Was going through a bad marriage (ending) and never went back to it. Had people waiting for part 2, etc. 

Fast forward 2 years or so and here I am free now, not wanting dark stories anymore, so I started out with a sweet western, historical romance short story of about 10k+ words. It was well received but the negative reviews (2 three stars) said I write very well but it was too short. Book 2 got my confidence up, so I published around 23k words. No negative reviews. 

But still not long enough to move out of the 30% $0.99 billing. So I need to go longer. All a matter of confidence. 

I published book 1 on about March 25th or so, and in April it sold/borrowed 100 copies exactly all month. 

Book 2 came out May 5th and I ran a free day for book 1. So now I've had 89 buys/borrows for book 1 (and almost 300 free day downloads) and 187 buys/borrows for book 2 so far. Even if I was at the 70% $2.99 level, it's a drop in the bucket to what my career earns me, but I'm hoping with momentum, I can replace my other career. 

I'm starting out paying two editors and getting professional covers done. So I'm in the hole from the starting gate. But I want it done right from the start. I've started building a list this month, and so far have about 37 fans on there - many who email me asking when book 3 will be out. Found out a lot of fellow authors in my subgenre literally live a block from our main street where I live - so we're planning to network, and they do much better with their books! 

It's exciting, and I can't wait to have the same kind of success you guys are having. 

Tiff/Trinity


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## J.T. Williams (Aug 7, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> AJ, almost everyone goes into this with the attitude that we can't produce books every 4-6 months. I know that terrified me. Yet here I am just seven months in and I'm getting a book out every three months, far faster than I ever thought possible. I work sixty hours a week at a San Francisco startup, but I still find the time.
> 
> It's all about being as efficient as possible, which comes from practice and experimentation. In a year I bet you'll be doing things that seem impossible right now =)


NaNoWriMo taught me I could write fast and setting a goal of three books within a year (and completing that goal) proved I could keep it up. I'm just working to blend editing one novel while I write the next... you are spot on about being efficient and getting the impossible done!


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

It took me 3 years and 4 months to finally make the amount I wanted for income. This year I have, so far. Some months lower, one extremely high one, so it averages out to better than I hope for monthly. Again, so far. But I've always had a plan.

Alas, according to a few on here, I guess I should have quit, since it didn't happen in the first year or first several months. Sorry, but what nonsense. Seriously, it's a different road for each. If you think you only get successful if you see it in the first year, then great. It's less competition for those of us who believe in our work so much we know it will eventually happen. 

You see in this thread, what, maybe 40 to 60 people who chimed in to say it took a year or less and so you base the possibility of success on those 40 to 60? It would be like taking 40 people who died from using aspirin and saying it should be taken off the market. I'm glad for anyone who makes it, in one month or 1,000 months...but it IS NOT the norm to make it in a year. If you think it is, you need to get a reality check.

Your chances of making it as an author are greater than they've been in the past before ebooks, but it's a creative field. Creative fields always have a few who make it "right away". The rest? It ain't for the timid. It's for the people who believe against all odds they can do it.


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## Keith Soares (Jan 9, 2014)

I've been sitting back reading in amazement. I didn't know if anyone would respond. Little did I expect so many amazing stories. I've been at this just under 2 years. I have not come anywhere close to matching my normal salary, but that's a difficult request. I run a tech company in DC. So, it's going to take some time and effort, if it happens at all. 

My biggest takeaway here is volume. Only the rarest few make it on one book. It takes multiple novels, multiple series. As you can see below this post (compare it to my Amazon author page), I've consolidated here. I really have 2 novels and 1 collection of short stories to my name. I need more. My first book, Oasis, had a rather finite conclusion. I do have a '10 years later' sequel planned but as yet no where near finished. My newest book, Black Out the Sun, is intended to start a series. My WIP is intended to start a series. So, hopefully I am learning from threads like this... 

Thanks for sharing your stories. Writing is a part-time (at best) job for me... I've seen successes with my few books. I'll keep making more. Maybe one day I'll have a success story, too.

K.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Book 1 of first series. Took off about six months after publishing. But I'm a slow writer, so people who can do volume are sprinting ahead of me.


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## loriann (Jun 20, 2014)

I remember a comedian who became a success on Saturday Night Live and then movies said there were so many people he met in the business who were funnier and more talented than him, but they gave up too soon. There's no sure thing, except you'll never make it if you quit.


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## Lucas Bale (Jun 4, 2014)

Carol (was Dara) said:


> I don't count the time so much as the number of reinventions it took.
> 
> In round 1, I trad-pubbed some misc stuff that didn't do well - mostly because of my scattered approach. I spent a year sharpening my skills, while counting rejection letters, and exploring publishing alternatives (ebooks and digital publishers). I rate that experience 1 star.
> 
> ...


This. Absolutely this. Well said. It's all about flexibility and learning. Experimenting. Advertising, for many, is one of the key lessons - how to use it, who to use and when to use it.


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## ScottCarlson (Jul 23, 2015)

This thread is just pure awesomeness


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

sosu said:


> This thread is just pure awesomeness


Agree. Welcome to da board


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## chrisstevenson (Aug 10, 2012)

I know now that I should have stuck it out in a genre niche (series) and built a solid readership base. I was very successful with two non-fiction books in 1988 and 1990, living off the proceeds for a year. But I desperately wanted some fiction credits. Today, my genre choices are scrambled eggs, and have been for quite awhile. I first thought that I would try all genres and pick the one that did the best and the one I was more comfortable with. The problem is, you can wait forever for that type of analysis.


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

TiffanyLambert said:


> Threads like this make me simultaneously motivated and intimidated. I'm in a position where I have a fulltime solo entrepreneurial career that earns 6 figures, but it's not what I want. I want fiction. A couple of years ago I wrote one short story in a series called The Feast (dystopian). Was going through a bad marriage (ending) and never went back to it. Had people waiting for part 2, etc.
> 
> Fast forward 2 years or so and here I am free now, not wanting dark stories anymore, so I started out with a sweet western, historical romance short story of about 10k+ words. It was well received but the negative reviews (2 three stars) said I write very well but it was too short. Book 2 got my confidence up, so I published around 23k words. No negative reviews.
> 
> ...


Write under a pen name. Nothing to do with confidence then and the detachment you get from your writing helps you to make better decisions. Writers tend to personalise their work, and that's great, it honestly is, but there's lessons to be learned by taking a step back.


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## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

I had a conflict with my job and was utterly depressed. That evening, I got home to find 3 checks from Amazon. They covered the fourth month since I published. Wife and I looked at each other with that same look --_ this could be a career after all_. So I talked to my accountant and she agreed, telling me I should quit my day job and pursue this full time.

When your own accountant says that, you want to listen.

So I gave my notice. That was only a month ago or so. To be fair, I have no kids, no car, no debt, and no large expenses (other than drinking with friends =P).

I was very fortunate to find kboards before publishing though, and learned a lot of the tips and tricks which allowed me to get this far (above all, save time by learning from others). And I was also very lucky with my series. _I know how lucky I am_. I think about it daily.

So many giants here that were kind enough to share their knowledge (Amanda, Hugh, Wayne, and countless others).

The nice thing about this stage--the stage where I am quitting my job--is I can see myself finding a comfort zone, a balance between social media, exercise, friends (online and off), travel, and paying the bills. I don't need to be rich at all to achieve this


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

I was blessed to have early success almost right off the bat.  I haven't quit the day job yet since I like what I do, but right now my writing is earning me what most would consider a comfortable income - how much of the bills it covers depends on how much the wife spends each month.  However, I made a lot of mistakes along the way...  For instance, I didn't have a mail list when I began (didn't even know what it was) and still don't have a regular release schedule (which is something readers have beat up on me about), but count myself fortunate that I seem to be building up a solid fan base.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

I noticed our kboard superhero authors are kicking A  

Must be a great genre and great writing.  I'll have to wait for a few more releases before I can contribute in a meaningful manner to this specific post, but I can say a new release is the bomb im(prawny)ho.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

I know I'll have made it when I can buy that comfy chair I've been dying for!


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Salvador Mercer said:


> I noticed our kboard superhero authors are kicking A
> 
> Must be a great genre and great writing.


I think it's a fun genre and a number of writers have found success within it, but I'd argue that the category has gotten significantly more competitive. Two years ago when I released the first book in my superhero series, I was able to capture and hold the #1 ranking in the genre for something like two months. With my latest release, I was initially selling twice as much, daily, as the first book and was having trouble cracking the Top 20. Thankfully, sales picked up dramatically after the first few days and the book started performing like it's predecessors in the series. Still, there's no denying that there are high-quality writers operating in the space, and my own work needs to stay above par if I want to maintain a place in the pecking order.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

KevinH said:


> I think it's a fun genre and a number of writers have found success within it, but I'd argue that the category has gotten significantly more competitive. Two years ago when I released the first book in my superhero series, I was able to capture and hold the #1 ranking in the genre for something like two months. With my latest release, I was initially selling twice as much, daily, as the first book and was having trouble cracking the Top 20. Thankfully, sales picked up dramatically after the first few days and the book started performing like it's predecessors in the series. Still, there's no denying that there are high-quality writers operating in the space, and my own work needs to stay above par if I want to maintain a place in the pecking order.


Well, you're doing well so congrats on the success.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I am not successful by any standard but my own (people pay for my stories, and they don't hate them!), but I can tell you what _not_ to do.

*1) Don't start out with just short stories.* I know why I did it, being so new to this self-publishing thing, and having bountiful self esteem issues, but unless you have novels in the drawer or you can write quickly, shorts aren't doing you any favors. Of course, things like #4 can throw all your plans for a loop. Still, I love to write them, so I keep on, and in truth, being able to finish something quickly helps keep the writer's block away.

*2) Don't be broke.* It's incredibly hard to get stuff out when you have zero budget. You have to do all the work, and spend inordinate amounts of time looking for free sources for stock images, fonts, places to advertise cheaply or for free, and other stuff. It can be done, but just be prepared for a lot of time, effort and frustration to fill your days. Don't listen to people who say you should wait and save money for editing, covers, whatever. Do it yourself, find someone who'll do something for free, trade with another broke writer, search for super-cheap things on Fiverr (but be prepared and know if you're getting a good deal, bad cheap stuff is worse than doing it yourself).

*3) Don't do your own covers.* If you must, learn how quickly. Like, super-duper fast. _The Flash_ fast. Again, you have to spend time learning what kinds of covers your genre requires, how to do the typography well, and then there's the learning curve for graphics software. But, when you have lots of time and no money, you do what you can to move forward. I know I'm not getting any younger. 

*4) Don't have crappy stuff happen in your life.* I was moving along at a good clip (reference #1, about getting novels out quickly), full of dreams and plans, when my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and later died in the emergency room on the night of her mastectomy. She was revived and was fine, but between that and the years of doctor's visits, chemo and radiation, the stress was horrible. Then my father was diagnosed with a terminal bone marrow disease (the year after my mother got sick), and cue more doctor and hospital visits. Add to that my youngest son going off the rails, and eventually the writing stopped.

*5) Don't listen when people say they have good results with something.* I was behind the line on Select, KU, mailing lists, Bookbub, pre-order, writing series, and so many other things. Of course, not having novels lined up and ready to go (gosh, back to step #1!) didn't help, because having opportunities means nothing if you have no product to put out there.

*6) Give up.* Too many times in my life, when things went south on me and I could barely get through the day, I'd stop writing. Bad marriage, crappy jobs/no job, family issues. All stopped the only thing I loved and wanted to do for a living. I don't think I can be one of those people who only write their best when their life is in shambles. I need some sort of stability, or my brain pan locks up.

Anyway, it's taking me a lot longer than I'd planned, since I started way back in 2011, but I'm still going to get there. One day (hopefully by the end of the year), I'll be back here, telling everybody how _I_ made it. I might even do a wee bit of bragging about how much money I have, the new car, top of the line computer, and fabulous trips around the world. Okay, that doesn't sound like me. So maybe I'll leave off the brag snot and just share some how-tos.


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## Steve Margolis (Mar 31, 2015)

Based on my one book, released about three weeks ago, I should break even in 2020.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

Steve Margolis said:


> Based on my one book, released about three weeks ago, I should break even in 2020.


LOL, I hear ya


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