# Income and Pen names: Who is the 1%?



## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

In the spirit of Adam Croft, the Author Earnings report and Hugh Howey's old thread, I was wondering: who is making a living from this?

No obligation to answer the below questions, but it'd be great for us prawns who are a little unmotivated after yesterday's report. 

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 



Thanks, everyone.


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## LovelyDesignStudio (Feb 21, 2011)

I am getting close to making a living from my income as a writer. Between my royalties and web design clients, I am living comfortably. For the first few years I wrote under my name, but now I use several pen names. This helps as I am able to tap into more genres. I make the most money from Adult Romance (erotica) and Paranormal Romance. I also have a few children's books published, but I barely make money from those. 

If I had to start all over, I would have saved up money for a very good editor before publishing my works. I also would have taken an internet marketing and SEO class to learn the ins and outs of selling products online, how to market them, and how to rank higher in the search engines.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

1. Yes. Are you talking monthly or annually?
2. Yes.
3. Romance, series, after three books and setting #1 permafree
4. All under one pen name, the books under my real name don't sell.
5. Nothing different. Maybe be more focussed and write faster.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

Yes,  low mid six figures annually.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

It's my only income. Husband retired to pursue his interests last year (at age 35 w00t).

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

I write fantasy mostly, epic and urban. Series, though I've accidentally left some to stand alone, but I'm fixing that eventually. 98% of my income is from series, most of it from just seven books.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

I only have one name that earns anything worth thinking about.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

I'd do what I did in 2014, just do it much sooner (I started self-publishing almost exactly 6 years ago, I just did it very poorly at first). I'd also be far more careful about who I took advice from and switch up things that weren't working WAY sooner than I did.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

kathrynoh said:


> 1. Yes. Are you talking monthly or annually?
> 2. Yes.
> 3. Romance, series, after three books and setting #1 permafree
> 4. All under one pen name, the books under my real name don't sell.
> 5. Nothing different. Maybe be more focussed and write faster.


I was talking yearly, but either/or, really. Some people make a living from very little, others want six figures to feel successful. From some light stalking of your posts, I understand you are a bit of a wanderer, and that you are very good at it! So, sorry if this is out of line as it is not my place to presume anything about anyone and yet I am going to anyway, you would be more comfortable on less? Because you are savvy with Air BnB and your kid is grown up? (Once again, this is just from reading your posts, so sorry if I am wrong or cause any annoyance!) so your expenses would differ from someone who had a mortgage or 5 kids under ten, or whatever. Then again, because your child is older, perhaps you need more money to pay for uni. We don't know details. So if someone says they're making a living, it's all very subjective, in my opinion. I have no kids or house. My living is cheap, if I behave myself and avoid the shops. However, I also have grandiose ideas of success. I would want six figures so I would feel like I'm not disappointing my parents. (Family of doctors. I am currently studying medicine and hate it.) so I think I was hoping to get more of an overall picture, if you will.

Out of curiosity, why do you think your other books don't sell? Were they written for love instead of market?

Thanks for replying. This is really interesting, and probably helpful for people just starting out.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

LovelyDesignStudio said:


> I am getting close to making a living from my income as a writer. Between my royalties and web design clients, I am living comfortably. For the first few years I wrote under my name, but now I use several pen names. This helps as I am able to tap into more genres. I make the most money from Adult Romance (erotica) and Paranormal Romance. I also have a few children's books published, but I barely make money from those.
> 
> If I had to start all over, I would have saved up money for a very good editor before publishing my works. I also would have taken an internet marketing and SEO class to learn the ins and outs of selling products online, how to market them, and how to rank higher in the search engines.


It's really interesting to hear what you would change! I'm unable to afford an expensive edit at the moment. Developmental or line? So how did you edit them originally? A friend? A cheap source? Yourself?

This is the first time I have heard people regret lack of SEO knowledge. Do you think it would've made a big difference in your Amazon visibility?


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> I was talking yearly, but either/or, really. Some people make a living from very little, others want six figures to feel successful. From some light stalking of your posts, I understand you are a bit of a wanderer, and that you are very good at it! So, sorry if this is out of line as it is not my place to presume anything about anyone and yet I am going to anyway, you would be more comfortable on less? Because you are savvy with Air BnB and your kid is grown up? (Once again, this is just from reading your posts, so sorry if I am wrong or cause any annoyance!) so your expenses would differ from someone who had a mortgage or 5 kids under ten, or whatever. Then again, because your child is older, perhaps you need more money to pay for uni. We don't know details. So if someone says they're making a living, it's all very subjective, in my opinion. I have no kids or house. My living is cheap, if I behave myself and avoid the shops. However, I also have grandiose ideas of success. I would want six figures so I would feel like I'm not disappointing my parents. (Family of doctors. I am currently studying medicine and hate it.) so I think I was hoping to get more of an overall picture, if you will.
> 
> Out of curiosity, why do you think your other books don't sell? Were they written for love instead of market?
> 
> Thanks for replying. This is really interesting, and probably helpful for people just starting out.


No problem 

I live a pretty frugal lifestyle. My son is working and totally independent now so I only support myself. A lot of my frugality comes from other concerns (environmental etc) and lifestyle choices like traveling rather than necessity. My living costs tend to be around $3000. I earn more than that so the rest goes in savings or on big ticket fun stuff - I really want to go on a Polar Bear expedition next year and that's $$$. Of course, being nomadic means that I don't spend on things like clothes (very often) or owning a car.

I am tending to spend more on things like accommodation than I used to just because going for a too cheap is a false economy. Far better to have somewhere to stay that's conducive to working even if it costs a bit more.

My real name stuff doesn't sell because I never really promote it and it's all a mix of genres. A lot is stuff I'd previously published in anthologies, magazines etc so any extra money from that is just icing on the cake. I am planning to publish an historical novel later in the year, maybe turning into a series and I'll do that under a variation of my name just because some of the stuff I have out is erotica. I mean like using Kate instead of Kathryn and making it a public pen name.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

1) Yes, low six figures annually.

2) It is and has always been my only income. I started with nothing. Or minus nothing.

3) Post apocalyptic and mystery. Mostly series. I saw the biggest change when I focused on consistent releases within a series instead of standalones, and pushing a loss leader entry book.

4) I was making a healthy living before I launched a pen name, now I'm making a healthier one.

5) Focus on series books from the start, and write three books in that series before jumping around to something else. I wouldn't skimp on covers. And I'd follow advice of those with actual evidence of success instead of those without.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

Annie B said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?
> 
> Yes, low mid six figures annually.
> 
> ...


2) Your husband really hit the jackpot with you, Annie! I can't imagine being 35 and being told "why don't you just try and focus on your papier-mache hobby, babe? work isn't really that fun, is it?"

5) Still, 6 years is SO impressive. That is dedication and a half, especially when things weren't working out the way you wanted them to in the beginning. You've earned your success the hard way, and that makes it sweeter. So you feel that you listened to poor advice? No names, obviously, but what do you think is something that you wished you hadn't given so much importance to? How did you switch things up? Series and a new genre, I think? Though I could be wrong, that's just what I remember from your threads.

3) The money that comes from series... Is there one series in particular that is your big earner? And the other is a steady burn? Or is that seven books in one series that is popping? And in that case, do you worry about running out of ideas or completing your set plot arc and being a bit lost? ((SORRY SORRY, I AM MEGA NOSY WITH THE QUESTIONS! IGNORE IF YOU WANT!))


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> 2) Your husband really hit the jackpot with you, Annie! I can't imagine being 35 and being told "why don't you just try and focus on your papier-mache hobby, babe? work isn't really that fun, is it?"
> 
> 5) Still, 6 years is SO impressive. That is dedication and a half, especially when things weren't working out the way you wanted them to in the beginning. You've earned your success the hard way, and that makes it sweeter. So you feel that you listened to poor advice? No names, obviously, but what do you think is something that you wished you hadn't given so much importance to? How did you switch things up? Series and a new genre, I think? Though I could be wrong, that's just what I remember from your threads.
> 
> 3) The money that comes from series... Is there one series in particular that is your big earner? And the other is a steady burn? Or is that seven books in one series that is popping? And in that case, do you worry about running out of ideas or completing your set plot arc and being a bit lost? ((SORRY SORRY, I AM MEGA NOSY WITH THE QUESTIONS! IGNORE IF YOU WANT!))


My husband's passion is Crossfit and personal training, so I think I'm the one who lucked out 

I name names all the time. I wished I hadn't spent four years adhering to the advice of DWS. I ignored reality, actual data, and people warning me about him to my own detriment (and almost the death of my writing career). So...yeah, I wish I hadn't done that.

My main series is the big earner. I have another series that does okay (about 1k a month from that one) and I'm intending to follow up that one and another I've let sit at one book for 4 years to see if I can grow those into earning as much as the urban fantasy. We'll see I suppose.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

Yes. Six figures - $334,000 last year.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the mildest?

Yes. Other than a few hundred a month from Amazon Associates income, the rest of my income last year came from book sales. No spouse. 

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

Romance -- new adult, contemporary, erotic, paranormal. Series. 12 full length books, 3 collections, 2 novellas and 3 short stories. Book 4 was the game changer and was written to market. I went from three figures month to five figures as a result of that book and that series. Book 4 was published in April 2013 and sold 5,000 copies the first month. Haven't looked back. Not all my books were as successful as that one, but they add up.


4) PEN NAMES. 

I have three but haven't used them effectively. In other words, I created them with the mind to use them but found I made the most money servicing my audience under my main pen name. I hope to change that this year but haven't tried so far.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

I had it pretty easy but I would write to market right away, and I would start my mailing list right away and I would start Facebook advertising right away. 

I quit my day job 16 months after I published my first book, and went from $70K a year income at my government job as an analyst to six figures in 2014 from eBook income. 

I have a sense of what my base income is from my backlist after not having published a book for 5 months (death of my father threw me off my game) and now I hope to build on it with new releases and continued promotion.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

1) Yes. My first year, I made nothing. Last year, I made mid five figures. This year, I will make six figures.

2) My husband works a normal 9-5. We have no kids but live in a city with a moderate to high cost of living. We plan our budget around his salary with mine covering things like vacations, discretionary spending, etc. I reinvest a large chunk of my earnings into my business.

3) new adult romance. I have two series (technically three but one is a total dud). The more connected series gets better sellthrough. I also like it better, so I focus on that one. My goal is to become the biggest indie in my niche (NA rockstar romance).

My biggest change was when I put out my first billionaire serial, had ep one in a multi-author bundle, and timed the promo on ep one with the release of the omnibus. My income hit four figures that month and stayed four figures.

My next major bump as when I timed a new release (book three on a series that was performing well) with a BookBub with starting aggressive Facebook ads. That more than doubled my monthly income (profit) but it's only been a few months, so it's hard to speak to the longevity of that plan. I spend a lot of money on Facebook ads. They've been a huge boon.

4) one pen name 

5) I would start writing commercial right away. Don't get me wrong. I live my books with all my heart. It's actually pretty simple to write commercial once you get a feel for it. I  would focus on one niche instead of trying to juggle two for a while. Mostly, I'd take everything I now know about ads and apply it earlier.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

rcasey said:


> 1) Yes, low six figures annually.
> 
> 2) It is and has always been my only income. I started with nothing. Or minus nothing.
> 
> ...


Your answer to number five is definitely something I need to hear. I'm already struggling to focus on one genre, but I think I will commit to finishing my chick lit and getting three books out, and write my romantic suspense on the side, until I have the trilogy ready. My chick lit, if people like it and I can figure it out, can go on for about 7 books, so if it works it'll be a long process, no point delaying it. Where as my romantic suspense has a three book set timeline, but it would provide openings for more standalones in series of the same genre, so I feel like I can take my time in that one. Okay the long game. Never mind the urban fantasy that's percolating in my head and my desire to try cozies. This is a beast that needs a firm hand, so I'm trying to listen to everyone and SETTLE DOWN.

Thanks for your input, it's just so heartening and fascinating!


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

kathrynoh said:


> No problem
> 
> I live a pretty frugal lifestyle. My son is working and totally independent now so I only support myself. A lot of my frugality comes from other concerns (environmental etc) and lifestyle choices like traveling rather than necessity. My living costs tend to be around $3000. I earn more than that so the rest goes in savings or on big ticket fun stuff - I really want to go on a Polar Bear expedition next year and that's $$$. Of course, being nomadic means that I don't spend on things like clothes (very often) or owning a car.
> 
> ...


Ah I envy people who can be frugal. I'm a disorganised mess with no money sense. Like I don't mind spending it, and I suppose I take it for granted in that sense, but I covet it to spend it? Not to save it? Which is why I know I will need a decent income to survive. My coffee bill alone is a major issue, though I've moved home and the nearest coffee shop is 45 minutes drive away, so I'm a few weeks sober now. It's terrible. But, part of that is due to my extremely late diagnosis in ADHD, which means I missed out on a lot of the teaching mechanisms which would have controlled these bad habits. I was diagnosed at 25, and I'm feeling like an old dog who is used to her rubbish tricks, rather than ready to correct them. Mind you, if anything could inspire me it would be a polar bear expedition! You are too cool. I am very jealous.


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?

Yes, I make a living well over six figures.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

My spouse also makes six figures. Since I started making good money we've paid off all our bills and are completely debt free and after this year, together we'll have put three kids through college-- paid in full. We don't drive new cars (but they are paid for) and we are quickly moving toward living a very simplistic lifestyle so my husband can retire early.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

I call it women's fiction but my publisher keeps getting it sent to Literary Fiction/World Literature categories. I started with a memoir I self-published that sold well out of the gate and landed me a contract as one of Amazon imprints very first authors. I then wrote two standalone novels. The first was rejected by my imprint, the second was picked up and did so/so. That year we invested a lot of money into things like editing, new book covers, and a professional website, all in an effort to portray me as the success I wanted to be. Then I wrote my series and once the third book was out, the series along with the magic pixie dust of Amazon's marketing machine (under an imprint) catapulted my success into an entirely new level. (the first book in the series has sold 100k+ copies and book two is working hard to catch up) I feel that because my books are all set in China, I've found a niche to fill that has built my name up faster than if I wrote in a wider genre.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

I only write under one name but have considered a new one. After much thought, I think I'll stick to the one.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.

Starting over I'd write the series first and have a newsletter from the beginning. I didn't start it until recently. I'd also find a way to cut corners/expenses enough to quit my day job sooner and focus on writing full time. I wasted a year juggling my day job with writing my first novel and only when I was making twice per month from writing than from the DDJ did I hand in my notice. I would not settle for satisfactory book covers. I'd look first class all the way even if I have to take a loss that year (which we did!).

a) Write in a series
b) Use professional and well-branded covers
c) Begin mailing list asap
d) Build a website
e) Look like a success. Act like a success. Then you'll BE a success.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

Annie B said:


> My husband's passion is Crossfit and personal training, so I think I'm the one who lucked out
> 
> I name names all the time. I wished I hadn't spent four years adhering to the advice of DWS. I ignored reality, actual data, and people warning me about him to my own detriment (and almost the death of my writing career). So...yeah, I wish I hadn't done that.
> 
> My main series is the big earner. I have another series that does okay (about 1k a month from that one) and I'm intending to follow up that one and another I've let sit at one book for 4 years to see if I can grow those into earning as much as the urban fantasy. We'll see I suppose.


By DWS I presume you mean Dean? What advice would you ignore? I've recently started reading his blog, and was believing a lot of it, so I'd like to hear another side of the story, if you don't mind?

Ah a Crossfit Hubby sounds pretty good, actually. Maybe you are the lucky one!  Were you employed when you started self-publishing, or stay-at-home?


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

Sela said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?
> 
> Yes. Six figures - $334,000 last year.
> 
> ...


First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your loss and you're very lucky/talented that you have been able to take this time to properly grieve that loss, due to your talent. I can only imagine how hard that would be. My deepest sympathies.

Secondly, HOLY CRAP. You are winning at life. So am I to understand that you have 4 series under the 4 sub-genres of Romance you named? Or are the 12 full novels more so under the successful pen name series and the rest is backlist earning? You're doing amazingly, and I can only hope to achieve a fraction of your success! I've tried to start my mailing list and what not now, though I won't do any advertisement until I actually have two books out, I think. Ditto with pen names. I'm hoping Chick-Lit and Romantic Suspense will be similar enough audience to fit under one name, though I'm far away from finding out any time soon.


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## Elliott Kay (Jan 12, 2016)

_1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?_

Yes. I hit low six figures in '13 and '14. Last year fell pretty short of that, but it was an odd year with no new releases (got sidetracked by stuff re-launching under an Amazon Publishing imprint). This year looks like I may either hit six figures or at least get close to it again, depending how quickly I produce.

_2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?_

I haven't entirely walked away from the day job, but it's very flexible so I've only "worked" like 20 days so far this year. Currently I'm the sole earner between my gf and I (she's in school right now).

_3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?_

Two series, one military sci-fi (3 books) and the other urban fantasy (2 books plus a couple shorter related works). I should note that my books tend to be on the long side -- the shortest novel is 145k words. The first urbfan book paid the bills for a summer (2011), but then I put out the first mil-sf book (2013) and did amazeballs. Everything took off from there.

_4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?_

I only have the one pen name, and I intend to keep using it when I eventually branch out into other genres. Conventional wisdom says people should re-brand under separate pen names and all that, but even with all that evidence that sounds crazypants to me.

...I should note that Kboards is like an endless litany of advice I haven't and/or can't follow and I seem to be succeeding in spite of that. Sometimes I see things here and think, "Damn it, why didn't I do that?" and other times I try to follow this advice and find out I _can't_ for whatever reasons. The open question is whether I'm succeeding because I'm going against the grain or if I'd do even better if I followed the conventional wisdom.

_5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. _

I'd have given myself a pen name closer to my own rather than something completely different. Introducing myself as "Elliott" feels super weird and pretentious.
Also, I wish I had known how to advertise when I first started. Like, AT ALL.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

Crystal_ said:


> 1) Yes. My first year, I made nothing. Last year, I made mid five figures. This year, I will make six figures.
> 
> 2) My husband works a normal 9-5. We have no kids but live in a city with a moderate to high cost of living. We plan our budget around his salary with mine covering things like vacations, discretionary spending, etc. I reinvest a large chunk of my earnings into my business.
> 
> ...


Ah your books sound EXACTLY like something I would love. Rockstar Romances? Yes please! Which is hilarious as I don't actually really fancy any rockstars... does Harry Styles count? The new haircut Harry, not the long haired one. Though tbh I'd take that too. Beggars can't be Rockstar choosers.

Could you define what you mean by serial, please? Some people refer to those as novellas, others seem to mean full books which need to be read in chronological order, and then others mean books that can be read in which order they like. I get confused every time someone uses that word, as I don't know which definition they're using!


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

1) I've netted six figures the last several years. 2015 was a weak six figure year; 2016 is shaping up to be a weak six figure year but I still have time to make it sing.

2) My spouse has stable employment in the low six-figure (gross) range. 

3) Erotic romance, several dozen, mostly novellas, some were serialized. I started with erotic shorts and had big change at about 8 shorts out (back in the pre-KU days).

4) I have another pen name, same genre, makes squat. 

5) I would have a mail list from the beginning. I would not let the box sets I was in use signing up to my mail list as a raffle entry (i.e. I would keep sign ups as organic as possible). I would have done my authorname.com from the very beginning. (Originally I wanted to openly have several pen names and tried a middle of the road URL for the planned names - so it was year 3 by the time I had my authorname.com after two earlier URLS.) The biggest thing I would do differently is prioritize my work. I remember a famous author who was the bread winner for his family and he never claimed a room for his work until late in his career. I am guilty of constantly ceding space in our house to hobbies, entertainment and exercise equipment that is never used. I have mostly claimed a room as mine finally, but may find office space nearby to rent if only because it will be free of internet and television and floors that could be swept/vacuumed, etc.


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## AuthorX (Nov 11, 2014)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?

I'm making six figures annually. Still on the lower end though.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

My only income and I'm unmarried. I quit a cozy six-figure job that I had been at for years in corporate America just a little more than a month after I published my first book. I got lucky and had a best seller pretty much right after I started.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

Sci-Fi, Romance, Street Literature, Non-fiction... Only have a couple series. My standalones actually make me the most money.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

I have 12 pen names. 90% of my income comes from only 3 of them though. I like to try new genres... I get bored writing the same thing. So having a bunch of pens was the only choice.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.

Been more organized, used an editor/proofreader, spent a little time with Createspace and ACX. 

Even without ever having an editor touch my books, I still made tons of bank and got glowing reviews, but since I'm converting them to print, I'm a little more particular about making sure there are no errors (since I can't go back) and have been slogging through editing them all. Also it's very time consuming to do print and audiobooks, so I wish I had just did it from the beginning.


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## Kristen Painter (Apr 21, 2010)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

Last year was low six. This year will be high six.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

It's our main income, but we have my husband's retired military pay too. Besides the books, I also do audiobooks and just launched a coloring book.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

PNR and cozy paranormal mystery. I have six books in the PNR series (plus three shorts) and only one in the cozy, but it's a spin-off so there's cross over. And there will be more in that cozy series, it's just the first one. I believe firmly in series. The older standalones I have do very little. The biggest change came when I put the first book free and got a BB. But I was already doing well enough that my husband was able to retire from his corporate gig the month before.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

One name. I've written numerous genres under it and don't plan to do differently. I am my brand.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

Nothing different. I wrote the first three books in my PNR series, got them professionally edited, proofed and covers made so that I could release them one a month for three months and it worked very well to create excitement and buzz. Love my genre, love what I write, love my life. It's hectic and crazy but I am blessed beyond measure to be doing what I love and connecting with readers who enjoy my work.


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## MMacLeod (Sep 21, 2015)

1) Do you make a living? This is my first year publishing, but if I follow through on my publishing plan for the year and the subsequent book perform similarly to the ones already published (which have been fairly consistent), I anticipate earning around $50k.

2) is this income your only income? I've been a stay at home mom the past 8 years, so we live on spouse's income and mine is for savings.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change? I write lesbian romance. I have stand alones and a series. I have two published, one on preorder, and five more on the schedule between now and next February (publishing anniversary). They've done well since the first, which I chalk up to doing a lot of research of the genre, choosing a hungry market, and producing a well-edited and nicely packaged book.

4) PEN NAMES. I am writing under one pen name now and have a second pen name lined up to launch next year in a very different genre (ghost mystery romance). It could go really well or fail miserably. I plan to have three of them written in a series before launching.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. Just start sooner!


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## ShadyWolfBoy (Sep 23, 2015)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?


Low six figures last year, looking to be mid-six figures this year. (numbers are in canadian, I think I missed six figures US last year but hard to be sure)



BeMyBookBaby said:


> 2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?


This is our only income. I turned down a six figure promotion in accounting to go write full time after my second real bestseller.
My spouse is a partner in the business, doing the covers and marketing. She also contracts out doing some book covers and is working on pulling together an art portfolio, so I have hopes for the future on that side 



BeMyBookBaby said:


> 3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?


Military SF and Space fantasy series pay my bills. I have a couple of fantasy stand-alones that buy a nice dinner each month apiece.



BeMyBookBaby said:


> 4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?


All under one name. Have considered moving the fantasy and my planned urban fantasy to a pen name, but decided against it.



BeMyBookBaby said:


> 5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.


Start sooner. I had two salable urban fantasy books in 2011, but I kept trying the traditional publishing game. My now-wife talked me into self-publishing what is now Starship's Mage book 1 at the end of 2013.
Go to novels sooner. The novella series was fantastic as an audience builder, but if I'd launched novels slightly less frequently I think I'd have been making much more money.

All in all though, I went from nada to six figures in two years. I'm not too bothered by my decisions


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## Michael Chatfield (May 16, 2016)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 
I made mid fives last year (first year). This year I'm projected to be messing around in the near or low six figures.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?
I just finished a five year stint with the military and doing university. Now writing is my only job.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

Military Science fiction and Space Opera. I have one series out but a new one starting in a month! Biggest change was book three, earned three months of pay with book 1 and 2 in a week.

I only use my actual name, never been really into using other names to create my brand.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

Better advertisements! And get my social media guy on sooner, I'm terrible with Facebook and Twitter. Getting someone else to take over those facets as I focused on writing.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

It would be interesting to see a wide versus KU split. I'm thinking the SF and Spec Fic authors responding are more likely KU but haven't looked at their books yet. 2014 and 2015 had KU income for me. KU1 income was excellent, KU2 was disastrous.


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## steffmetal (May 8, 2014)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

I made $35k last year from my books, projected to be higher this year. I could live off this number.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

I have a pretty decent day job as a content writer that allows me time to write. My husband also has a decent day job. My husband and I are in the middle of building our home, so I don't want to do anything risky at the moment until we feel financially stable again. We are trying to save lots of money to finish the build and rebuild savings before I think about quitting.

I hit six figures for the first time ever last year with my day job and writing combined, which is pretty incredible for me. I never thought in a million years I'd earn that much money.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

PNR, dark fantasy/science fiction, and I have a few non-fiction and humorous fantasy books that I published because they were sitting on my hard drive doing nothing. Now they sit on Amazon doing nothing  I write mainly in series, with one standalone book under my romance name, that follows characters from a world in two of my other series.

4) PEN NAMES.

4 pen names, including one group one I no longer write under. My romance is around 2/3 my income, the penname the other third, the fantasy around $200 a month, my misc books around $30 a month. I only add new books to my romance name and my fantasy name.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

I would have understood what "Write to market" actually meant right from the beginning. I would have started self-publishing sooner (I did my first on in 2014, but I'd been thinking about it for two years before that but was chasing the traditional publishing dream). And I would have finished my first romance book much sooner (it was a side project while I worked all the time on my fantasy).


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## Nicole M (Nov 1, 2012)

I just want to thank everyone who has commented so far. That last author report discouraged me so much, I didn't write at all yesterday. I hope one day I can be the one who shares their figures!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

1) Mid-six figures last two years (averaging a bit over 400K/yr). This year looks like it will be higher. 

2) I'm married. My husband has a good job (150K) but is retiring this year. He does have a retirement plan. I gave notice at my job to write full time two weeks into writing my first book, and quit a month later when I finished it. This is a wacky idea that I don't recommend, but it worked for me. Exactly one year after quitting, I earned 75% in one month of what I'd earned all year at the job. 

3) I write standalones within series. All my books except one can be read separately. I write contemporary romance and romantic suspense, basically in 3 or 4 subgenres/tones. A lighter sports romance series, a more women's-fiction-y series, a billionaire series (which is my only to-market thing, for Reasons), and a romantic suspense Big Issues series. I am a hybrid: one series with Montlake & some translation & audio stuff with publishers.

Except for one book, I do not write to market in the sense that I study the market, know what's hot, or write to any trends. For that reason, my books published nearly four years ago still sell well, and that's more what I'm going for. However, I think I have a good sense of what readers of MY TYPE of romance are looking for in a book, and that I satisfy their expectations.

Have written 19 and published 17 (one on a preorder not coming till January; one coming later this month). I am hybrid. I have 2 books out, soon to be 5, in German translation and 16 audiobooks: 10 ACX and 6 with 2 separate publishers. All but two of my books are very long for genre: 93K-145K.

I release on average about every 3 months, but this past year, the gap has been as long as 5+ months due to tradpub schedules. I'm trying to even that out. I do OK even after some months without a release, but income definitely dips after 5 months. 

I sold 2,000 books at $3.99 in Month 1, and 20,000 books in Month 5, so Month 5 was the tipping point, but everything started off pretty well, largely because I put out three (stand-alone within series) books at once and got great sell-through on the back of a 3-day Select free offer one week in. 

I don't spend that much on advertising. Typically anywhere from 0-1000/month, probably averaging $400/month?

I will have been published 4 years in September.

I do bounce back and forth a LOT between series. This year, I will have books out in each of 4 series, and I plan to start a fifth series in 2017. I can have a delay of a year between books in a series. It seems to work OK. It might work better to stick to one series at a time, but I find my brain needs the change of pace and the books' quality is better if I switch off.

4) No pen names. Just this one.

5) Doing things differently: would have started a mailing list sooner (took me 2 years). Otherwise, would have tried to have some faith that everything wasn't going to crash, and faith in my own process and methods. The biggest thing is believing that it's OK

a) Not to write to trend.
b) To write huge long books.
c) To switch back and forth between series.
d) To write in different subgenres.
e) Not to write 10,000 words a day (I average maybe 3.5K fully edited words), and to need a couple weeks between books for the old one to leave and the new one to arrive.
f) To stay in Select if that's what's working. 

In other words, to say, "This is why I write: to write the stories I want to tell and to share them. This is my process, these are my books, and it's working for me, so who cares what's working for somebody else. Yay for them, but I can do it my way."

Good luck to everyone.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> Ah your books sound EXACTLY like something I would love. Rockstar Romances? Yes please! Which is hilarious as I don't actually really fancy any rockstars... does Harry Styles count? The new haircut Harry, not the long haired one. Though tbh I'd take that too. Beggars can't be Rockstar choosers.
> 
> Could you define what you mean by serial, please? Some people refer to those as novellas, others seem to mean full books which need to be read in chronological order, and then others mean books that can be read in which order they like. I get confused every time someone uses that word, as I don't know which definition they're using!


A serial is basically a mini series. It's a story told in short installments, each one ending with a cliffhanger. They were popular under KU 1.0 but authors abandoned then pretty quickly under the new pay per page system.

I wrote two billions books (counting the serial as one book). The first did well but the second never took off. It was stressful to kill the series-- I worried i would disappoint the people who wanted book three-- but I'm glad i did. My rock star series (four novels, one for each guy in the band) is a much better for for me. It's doing really well. I may actually be one of the top Indies in the niche, at least of the Indies in KU. It's weird to think about.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> Ah I envy people who can be frugal. I'm a disorganised mess with no money sense. Like I don't mind spending it, and I suppose I take it for granted in that sense, but I covet it to spend it? Not to save it? Which is why I know I will need a decent income to survive. My coffee bill alone is a major issue, though I've moved home and the nearest coffee shop is 45 minutes drive away, so I'm a few weeks sober now. It's terrible. But, part of that is due to my extremely late diagnosis in ADHD, which means I missed out on a lot of the teaching mechanisms which would have controlled these bad habits. I was diagnosed at 25, and I'm feeling like an old dog who is used to her rubbish tricks, rather than ready to correct them. Mind you, if anything could inspire me it would be a polar bear expedition! You are too cool. I am very jealous.


I think the key is to cut out all the crap you don't need. Obviously not coffee, since that's a necessity. I actually die a little inside when someone give advice about saving money and they say to quit coffees -- how do you even make money if you don't have caffeine? I used to be a terrible spendthrift but then I moved overseas to live for a year and had so much junk to sort out and get rid of. I actually get really stress when I have too much clutter to deal with, so I only buy things I really love.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?


Yes, I make a living. Last year, I brought in low six figures, and I hope it'll be higher this year.



> 2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?


Yes, it's my only income and basically has been my only income forever. I don't adult well.



> 3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?


Right now I write cozy mystery and urban fantasy. Before that, I wrote romance for several years. I only write in series. I really didn't have a gradual increase in sales. I had up and down sales for a few years, and then about two years ago, I hit five figures a month and never fell below it. This change was mostly due to going wide and Google Play income.



> 4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?


I wouldn't worry about reports based on flawed statistics. They are meaningless. As for pen names, I have too many. There was a time where I treated pen names as a way to organize my books by genre. This was ultimately probably a mistake, and I'm down to a single active pen name, though most of my other ones still bring in a a few thousand a month combined.



> 5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.


I'm not sure what I would do different. I fully believe that being successful at this is 100 percent chance-based, so... idk, hope for the same luck?


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

Sorry to nitpick but the low, mid, high six figure language is a bit confusing. A six figure net ranges from 100,000 to 999,999. So when someone says I make low to mid, I am assuming that means 200,000 to 399,999 but based on some of the comments they may actually mean 100,001 to 199,999. 

Congrats either way.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Moist_Tissue said:


> Sorry to nitpick but the low, mid, high six figure language is a bit confusing. A six figure net ranges from 100,000 to 999,999. So when someone says I make low to mid, I am assuming that means 200,000 to 399,999 but based on some of the comments they may actually mean 100,001 to 199,999.
> 
> Congrats either way.


I can tell you when I say weak, it means just over, not close to 200k


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

1) Yes, made around $140,000 last year and the year before.

2) Yes, only my income.

3) Genre - romance for now. Mainly billionaire, some NA, some crossovers. 

4) Pen names - only have the one right now, soon will have another. Thinking of retiring the name I have now. We'll see how it goes.

5) Ah, now here is the question I want to answer. Because I am starting over, and it's scary as hell. But, basically, if I had the chance to do everything differently from the start, I probably would have started writing legal thrillers instead of romance. Simply because that's the genre that I've always preferred reading. I wrote in the romance genre because it's one of the biggest for the self-pubbed, and thrillers still seem to be the genre for the trads. 

For whatever reason, my income has stagnated this year. No, actually, it has gone down a lot. I can't really put my finger on why, but, for me, it's a good time to try something new. The writing is on the wall. It's a good thing, too, because if I continued indefinitely making monthly five figures, I probably never would jump. But I am, and it feels liberating. 

So, I'm starting over with legal thrillers, taking all the knowledge I've gained these past 2-3 years, and hopefully get a running start. Most importantly, I've learned from my mistakes, which were legion. Not the least of which was spending money like water on every hare-brained scheme you could think of, none of which panned out. From now on, it's the tried-and-true for me. 

Also, I'm going to study the market much more, which is easier to do, since I love reading thrillers and didn't love to read romance. I kinda wrote my romances "blind," without really knowing what the tropes are and all of that. I think that I can do much better with the thrillers, and can write to market better, as I'll have more of a feel for what the reader's expectations are in the genre. 

And, if legal thrillers don't work out, I'll try cozies. Indies definitely do well with those, and I've always loved a good mystery, so it's a genre that I would enjoy reading.

I guess that's my number one thing I would do differently, and would advise anybody to do the same - don't write in a genre you don't love. You can fake it for awhile, but it eventually catches up to you.


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## Yamila Abraham (Jan 5, 2016)

I thought I was part of the 1%...until I read this thread.  ;_;


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## Gator (Sep 28, 2012)

Yamila Abraham said:


> I thought I was part of the 1%...until I read this thread. ;_;


According to the most recent Author Earnings report (May-June 2016), you probably are. Nearly 9,900 author names (out of 884,344 eBook author names) are earning at least $10,000 a year selling print books, eBooks, and audio books on Amazon.com alone. That's the top 1.1% of eBook author names.

$10,000 a year isn't enough to earn a living, but $50,000 usually is. More than 2,500 author names are earning at least $50,000 a year selling print books, eBooks, and audio books on Amazon.com alone. That's the top 0.28% of eBook author names.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> By DWS I presume you mean Dean? What advice would you ignore? I've recently started reading his blog, and was believing a lot of it, so I'd like to hear another side of the story, if you don't mind?
> 
> Ah a Crossfit Hubby sounds pretty good, actually. Maybe you are the lucky one!  Were you employed when you started self-publishing, or stay-at-home?


This thread pretty much summed up everything: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,219663.0.html and if that one doesn't, there are posts of mine in this one that will, probably: http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=218212.0 the TLDR version is: don't take any of his advice beyond "you must write" to heart. None of his marketing/selling books advice is any good. At all. I spent four years testing it back when it was even far easier than now to get visibility etc, and it's rubbish, sorry.

I had quit my job a year before I started self-publishing, but I was still playing poker for money at the time. But I considered myself basically a full time writer right from the start, even though it took a while to bring in money, heh.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

I make well over what Author Earnings calls a living wage. I'm not comfortable disclosing how much on a public forum. 

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the mildest?

I have a spouse with income, but this year I'm the breadwinner. 

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

UF and scifi (genres I love). Always in a series. I have 13 books currently published - 2 on the way in the next couple of weeks and another in the background without a publication date. Most are full length novels, some are shorter prequels. I didn't see a sudden 'wow' moment. With every book, sales increased. I'm now getting to the point where I should be doing more marketing, but I also need to be writing. (I also have two kids under 7 and a husband to look after, so balancing priorities isn't easy). I could be making more if I got my ass in the chair and wrote MORE. 

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that.

I don't have any pen names. 

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

If I started out knowing what I do now, I wouldn't have skimped on covers. I didn't know anyone in the industry, so I went ahead and paid outlandish fees for a developmental edit. I was stung other ways too. But I was new, and learning the ropes from the ground up. You can't buy experience. 

It's important to note that I'm wide, and have been since February last year. i've slowly forged relationships with other vendors and people in the industry, mostly through connections and face to face meetings. I'm a firm believer that you make your own luck by finding as many opportunities as possible. For me, that means being wide and connecting with those opportunities.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

KBoards is a microcosm. We're lucky to have many successful authors in our midst, bit I do think it's sometimes easy to assume 'most' self-pub authors are making a living wage (especially when you look at the wealth of experience we have here), when in fact, the reality is that the majority don't.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?
> 
> 2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?
> 
> ...


[list type=decimal]
[*]Yes. I'm 51 years old. Low six figures (dollars). Started 2001, went full time mid 2013.
[*]Yes. No other income. Pension is from previous employemnt. Starts at age 55.
[*]4 genres and all 4 series. Sci-fi, epic fantasy, urban fantasy, psychic/supernatural fantasy/romantic thing (witches)
[*]No pen names
[*]If I had to start over, I would have written my current 4 books in sci-fi back to back. I would write 3 of them and release all 3 together, then book 4 a month later, then release all in audio at the same time. A year on, I would create the boxed set of 1-3 in kindle and audio. I would still write all my other series, but AFTER those sci-fi books were paying my salary.

[/list]


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## celadon (Sep 12, 2015)

I am enjoying this thread immensely! Thank you, everyone! 



D-C said:


> KBoards is a microcosm. We're lucky to have many successful authors in our midst, bit I do think it's sometimes easy to assume 'most' self-pub authors are making a living wage (especially when you look at the wealth of experience we have here), when in fact, the reality is that the majority don't.


I think you're right. But I also think that KBoarders, the ones who stick around and actively are trying to cultivate successful plans and strategies, are far more likely to be among the ones who succeed.

I'm still a prawn, just getting started, and I cannot predict my future. But in another creative field (which I am a part of), I see a connection between success and certain habits. (Like, working hard, working hard to be GOOD, taking advice, being flexible, and so forth.) Many people who classify themselves as "creative" will inevitably fail at one of more of these things. I'd say that the majority of people who consider themselves "writers" or "artists" (or musicians, whatever) do.

Those writers who stick around here, soak up the advice, keep on writing, keep on trying, aim for excellence (and are not delusional about their strengths and weaknesses) are far more likely to be successful. The same with artists and musicians. It's easy to talk the talk, but not many people follow through.

Some people might find what I'm saying to be discouraging, but I don't think it is at all. Most of this is within our control. For example, no one forces a writer to not write or to not get their work edited or to not get a decent-looking cover. No one forces a painter to refuse how to learn how to mix color, or refuse to set up a website for themselves. They do that to themselves. And I see them do it all the time, and yet be mystified as to why they are not more successful. While there may be other forces at work, I think is the main cause of "failure" is people doing stupid things, or not wanting it enough, or having too much of an ego, and so forth. It's not "luck" most of the time.

(Sorry, I'm on a tear lately. And I'm just a prawn! I haven't made very much money with my books at all! But then I'm just getting started!  )


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## spellscribe (Nov 5, 2015)

I've suggested to so many people that they start networking with the people here and a couple other places (most of hoc hate kboards spin offs like Pattys promo group). They refuse and continue to beat their heads against the walls. 

Why? They don't want to be told what to do, or what they're doing wrong, I guess. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Adrienne Lecter (Jun 3, 2016)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 
I make a living, particularly as cost of living is lower here because of our social system. Last year I made 6k. This year likely 100k or more, it's impossible to predict right now.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?
My only income, my BF has the typical 9-5 job.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?
Sci-fi dystopia, zombie apocalypse series. I used to write romance but that didn't sell. At all.
4 books right now with the 5th coming up this month. I saw the first pickup when I released #2, and it's been increasing with each new release

4) PEN NAMES.
The romance one makes about 3-5k a year. This one going for 100k this year estimate.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 
I'm on my restart here, best idea ever! Quick release schedules and a genre I love - win/win if you ask me. For a series I now make sure I have the first few books written before I start releasing it.


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## Adrienne Lecter (Jun 3, 2016)

Annie B said:


> This thread pretty much summed up everything: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,219663.0.html and if that one doesn't, there are posts of mine in this one that will, probably: http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=218212.0 the TLDR version is: don't take any of his advice beyond "you must write" to heart. None of his marketing/selling books advice is any good. At all. I spent four years testing it back when it was even far easier than now to get visibility etc, and it's rubbish, sorry.


His writing advice is awesome. The rest I ignore. I feel like we're all sitting in our own boats and have to find our own way. What works for one writer might've poison for the next.
But then I'm generally sick of people ranting against KU. I make 2/3 or more if my income there, with lots of people telling me that's how they found my books. For a different genre things may be different, but for me, right now, it would be back to having a day job if I left KU. I'd rather write. But that's a different discussion altogether.


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## Sailor Stone (Feb 23, 2015)

michaelchatfield said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five?
> I made mid fives last year (first year). This year I'm projected to be messing around in the near or low six figures.
> 
> 2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?
> ...


If you don't mind my asking, how did you go about finding a social media guy? I find it exhausting trying to keep up with all of the different ways I should be promoting my self as an author and my books as product. Also, does it free you up to write more? I assume that is the main reason you farmed that part of your business out. Thanks!


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

Yes.  I make low six-figures.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

Only income.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

I write in fantasy - Fairytale retellings, UF, YA shifter fantasy in an "epic" world, Victorian gothic, dabbled in horror, as well as playwrighting.  I have 25 titles total (some are bundled and in anthologies):  Three stand alones (one being a German translation), three series (accounting for 15 of my books),  four short stories, and then three plays I'm experimenting with.  

Success came after I had published a standalone and two books in a series.  Just so no one starts making comparisons and gets a hankering to bathe with toasters - my success came back in the Golden Age of Select (back when the free books were featured alongside the paid books.)  The field was smaller, I changed covers to something "pro" looking back when it was still considered okay to have a cover you made on MS Paint, I started marketing alongside a group of gals in my genre before that was a thing, and then my standalone was picked up by a publisher who did more for it than I ever could.  You guys new to this field have it much, much harder and my hat is off to you for any success you're seeing in this current market.  It is brutal right now.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

No pen name.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

70% of my income comes from that original UF series.  If I had to do it over again, I would have devoted my time and energy to that series.  I got  sidetracked by shiny projects others invited me to do and I often wonder how different my life would be if I had just stayed focused on the stories *I* wanted to tell... that just so happen to be the stories my readers wanted as well...


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Annie B said:


> I had quit my job a year before I started self-publishing, but I was still playing poker for money at the time. But I considered myself basically a full time writer right from the start, even though it took a while to bring in money, heh.


I thought I loved you before based on your books and posts here, and now I know I do. I spent a couple of years augmenting my income by playing poker until the U.S. DOJ essentially ended online poker as a money-making enterprise for US players. I played live too, but the variance was too high for me in live poker.

So, fist bump on the whole poker thing. Sorry to derail the larger discussion.


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## christianem (Sep 15, 2013)

1) Last year, I earned a little over $100k net (minus taxes and expenses) for the year. This year however, I haven't even made it to $30k and it's already been over 5 months. I'm not letting this get to me though. I still think I can make it to $100k, but I also know I'll have to make certain drastic changes. Also, last year and this year's figures were for books that were mostly released wide. I only have a handful of KU books but none of them did spectacularly well except for a trilogy that did well for one month. But then KU 2 kicked in and it was downhill after that. 

2) It's my full-time job, no other source of income for the family.

3) Romance, mostly serials, half contemp, half paranormal, and with first one always set free. I did really well when boxed sets used to dominate all the lists, and I was able to get a lot of readers through them. I have maybe 40 or so serials in total. I stopped counting long ago. Books are all priced $2.99 except when they debuted with a boxed set. In that case, their individual books are priced $.99 right out of the gate. 

4) I have pen names but practically all of them only earns enough for me to buy a cup or two at Starbucks every month. 

5) If I could do it all over again - and actually, this is what I'm going to do now, to turn things around so I can make sure that by the end of the year I've still made six figures, I'll give KU a try (either with my main author brand or a new pen name) with a series of standalones and spend maybe up to $1k for starters on FB ads and see how things go.


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## JVRudnick (Sep 12, 2014)

Had to reply to this one....but as a brand new SciFi author on Amazon...I've only got 10 months "in" as an author...

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 
For the past 10 months, I'm just over the $50 k threshold....which judging by the much bigger numbers reported here by other authors is not so good....yet....it pays for some great wine, eh!

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?
I'm retired, so yes, it's what I make for my "mad money" buys in life...but I am also thinking--as perhaps others have too--that while the overall big sales #'s will slow, that yest there may be some residual ongoing income there in my list....

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?
Sci-fi - Military space opera is my first series entitled "The RIM Confederacy" and my second series is the "BONES" dystopian one. The big huge increase came when I launched #3 in the RIM Confederacy series...as others have commented, the surge was huge!

4) PEN NAMES. 
Nope, just under my own moniker...

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? 
Not sure...but there is one thing...I got that annual Canadian flu in Dec and could not write a word for almost 2 months....which changed my launch strategy of one per month...which made the revenues drop...we're back on track now, but that proved to me...keep current or dollars disappear...

I hope this helps others...would love to hit 6 figures a year....maybe soon...but my mantra is write daily....and widen your genre--or sub-genre targets....


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

Solidly part of the 99%, here. I earn peanuts, or sometimes I pay for those peanuts. I write epic fantasy and dabble in historical romance and may write something else entirely come next year. I might even go nuts and try this "writing to market" malarkey, which I certainly have not been doing so far. However, I've been watching the scene pretty closely for the past 4 years or so, and I wanted to comment on a couple of things.



CJArcher said:


> Great questions and I'm loving reading everyone's answers. I too think the Author earnings report is missing some important information, not just on the pen name, but also on being wide. I only make 37% of my sales on Amazon.com.


This is great to hear. I put my historical romance in KU in October and it gets steady page reads, which has been awesome. My fantasies got next to nothing, so I'm back wide with them. I think KU can really help, but it helps most if you're writing to market for high-churn subgenres.



BeMyBookBaby said:


> By DWS I presume you mean Dean? What advice would you ignore? I've recently started reading his blog, and was believing a lot of it, so I'd like to hear another side of the story, if you don't mind?





Annie B said:


> This thread pretty much summed up everything: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,219663.0.html and if that one doesn't, there are posts of mine in this one that will, probably: http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=218212.0 the TLDR version is: don't take any of his advice beyond "you must write" to heart. None of his marketing/selling books advice is any good. At all. I spent four years testing it back when it was even far easier than now to get visibility etc, and it's rubbish, sorry.


Sorry to hear you lost so much time to that advice. Oh well. I've lost time to lots of things (like not writing right now). I enjoy reading DWS's blog sometimes, but I take it all with a grain of salt. Most recently, I read his post about Heinlein's Rule #3, which fascinates me. I thought, "Could this work for me, this business of publishing cleaned-up first drafts?" Then I looked at DWS's fiction. It's not selling, at least not on Amazon.com. Whatever he's doing doesn't seem to be working very well for him if you judge it by fiction sales. That said, I do find his blog interesting and thought-provoking, and I haven't read his fiction, so can't really judge it.



kathrynoh said:


> I think the key is to cut out all the crap you don't need. Obviously not coffee, since that's a necessity. I actually die a little inside when someone give advice about saving money and they say to quit coffees -- how do you even make money if you don't have caffeine?


Who says this? What are they on? How do they live? 
I actually don't drink much coffee, but I consume gallons of tea. Cutting out alcohol has a lot to recommend it on the budgetary front, but coffee?
Oh, wait! I know the answer to this. They're not actually recommending against coffee, just against regular consumption of $5 coffees at shops. Coffee at home does't cost nearly as much (and buying $5 coffees and sitting in the cafe is way cheaper than renting an office).



D-C said:


> KBoards is a microcosm. We're lucky to have many successful authors in our midst, bit I do think it's sometimes easy to assume 'most' self-pub authors are making a living wage (especially when you look at the wealth of experience we have here), when in fact, the reality is that the majority don't.


QFT.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Darius Brasher said:


> I thought I loved you before based on your books and posts here, and now I know I do. I spent a couple of years augmenting my income by playing poker until the U.S. DOJ essentially ended online poker as a money-making enterprise for US players. I played live too, but the variance was too high for me in live poker.
> 
> So, fist bump on the whole poker thing. Sorry to derail the larger discussion.


I was much better at live poker than online, but my career essentially ended with Black Friday also. Sigh.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Gator said:


> According to the most recent Author Earnings report (May-June 2016), you probably are. Nearly 9,900 author names (out of 884,344 eBook author names) are earning at least $10,000 a year selling print books, eBooks, and audio books on Amazon.com alone. That's the top 1.1% of eBook author names.
> 
> $10,000 a year isn't enough to earn a living, but $50,000 usually is. More than 2,500 author names are earning at least $50,000 a year selling print books, eBooks, and audio books on Amazon.com alone. That's the top 0.28% of eBook author names.


Huh. I'm surprised that fewer than 10,000 names are earning $10,000 or more. Being on KB really does skew one's perspective. Income in this business is more concentrated than I realized.


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## MMacLeod (Sep 21, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> Huh. I'm surprised that fewer than 10,000 names are earning $10,000 or more. Being on KB really does skew one's perspective. Income in this business is more concentrated than I realized.


It's safe to assume that the author report under represents the authors earning at least $10k, as it's only a snapshot of a single store in Amazon. It's also safe to assume there are nowhere near 884k serious authors out there. That number includes every author with an ebook, whether they actively publish now, published a single title 5 or more years ago, are a scammer publishing junk titles, or are an author from a century ago whose book has been added as a public domain work. Heck, it includes they guy with the "bestselling" book that was only a picture of his foot. I would be surprised if there are even half that number of people actively trying to publish books to make a full time living, maybe only a quarter or even less. There's no way to know.

Realistically, while income is concentrated, it's not quite as concentrated as this makes it seem. More important, the takeaway with this report is that more indies are making more money from more revenue streams than if they had gone for the traditional publishing models.


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

Thanks so much for asking (and answering) these questions. I'm a lawyer who wants to leave the practice. I published my first book on Amazon, and it did nothing. Now I'm gearing up for books 2 and 3 in the series, and then a pen name that will publish two more series under a different genre. Trying to increase the potential for discoverability, and I enjoyed reading these perspectives.


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## celadon (Sep 12, 2015)

MMacLeod said:


> That number includes every author with an ebook, whether they actively publish now, published a single title 5 or more years ago, are a scammer publishing junk titles, or are an author from a century ago whose book has been added as a public domain work. Heck, it includes they guy with the "bestselling" book that was only a picture of his foot. I would be surprised if there are even half that number of people actively trying to publish books to make a full time living, maybe only a quarter or even less. There's no way to know.


I'm going to guess a lot fewer than half!

I keep on harping on this (sorry) but I have seen this in other fields. A lot of people love to create, but that doesn't mean they're all professional level or even attempting that. Imagine if every person who enjoyed singing karaoke or liked to sing in the church choir was now counted as a singer trying to become pro. Imagine if every person who dabbled with paint-by-numbers, or doodled anime sketches and posted them on Facebook was now counted as someone who was aspiring to become a professional artist.

A lot of people love to sing, love to draw, love to write. Most of them are not even _trying_ to make much of an income.

This is a subject close to my heart, because for most of my life I've been told that in a creative field (like art, writing) "the competition is tough" and "there are so many other people out there who are trying too, what makes you think you're special?" But it's not like that. Yes, there are a lot of other people who aspire to be creative. Not all of them (in fact, few of them) are serious competition for those who are working hard, educating themselves, striving to improve, and treating it as a serious business. That doesn't mean that any of our success is guaranteed; only that the odds are far greater for success if we ARE treating it as a serious business. A higher percentage on Kboards are doing just that.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

MMacLeod said:


> It's safe to assume that the author report under represents the authors earning at least $10k, as it's only a snapshot of a single store in Amazon. It's also safe to assume there are nowhere near 884k serious authors out there. That number includes every author with an ebook, whether they actively publish now, published a single title 5 or more years ago, are a scammer publishing junk titles, or are an author from a century ago whose book has been added as a public domain work. Heck, it includes they guy with the "bestselling" book that was only a picture of his foot. I would be surprised if there are even half that number of people actively trying to publish books to make a full time living, maybe only a quarter or even less. There's no way to know.
> 
> Realistically, while income is concentrated, it's not quite as concentrated as this makes it seem. More important, the takeaway with this report is that more indies are making more money from more revenue streams than if they had gone for the traditional publishing models.


Good points! And celadon's as well.


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## Gator (Sep 28, 2012)

Becca Mills said:


> I'm surprised that fewer than 10,000 names are earning $10,000 or more. Being on KB really does skew one's perspective. Income in this business is more concentrated than I realized.


At first glance, that seems too low to be true, but we should factor in other income, too, like income from Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.de, Amazon Affiliates, etc. Since only 57% of the indie titles are enrolled in KU, authors have the opportunity to sell the rest of their eBooks on Apple, Google, Kobo, etc.

If an author's income is $10,000 on Amazon.com alone, that author is probably making $13,000 to $15,000 or more a year from books. The number of authors making $10,000 or more per year from all book selling activites is probably significantly higher 9,900.

Also, there's no easy way to tell which authors have two or more pen names, each earning $100 to $800 a month because each pen name has so few books so far. Combined, the author earns more than $10,000 per year, but counts as two or more authors, none of which meet the minimum threshold.

The bottom line is, I don't think it's nearly as gloomy as it seems for those who can write well, market well, focus on a single genre or niche while starting out, and publish at least four books a year (preferably more), year after year. Most of those authors included in the latest Author Earnings report aren't serious about making a living with their books (and most of us have day jobs, anyway), and many of those who are serious don't know what they're doing yet and don't put in the effort necessary to succeed.

We're truly lucky to have so many authors here at KBoards willing to share their experiences so not everyone has to stop and reinvent the wheel on the road to success.


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## MMacLeod (Sep 21, 2015)

celadon said:


> Imagine if every person who dabbled with paint-by-numbers, or doodled anime sketches and posted them on Facebook was now counted as someone who was aspiring to become a professional artist.


This is exactly what I was thinking. Just like artists, actors, and musicians, there are a lot of people who "want" to be writers. Most of them will never complete a single manuscript. Of those that do complete one, a fair number will never complete a second and will never allow the first to see the light of day. For the few who are left, it used to be that query letters and a publishing contract were your only hope, and only 4-5% who queried would end up with a deal. A lot of the rejected books were high quality, and sometimes would get picked up after years of effort. A lot of those books were absolutely hopeless. There were a lot in between, too. Nowadays, all of those people who used to get rejected have the option of putting their work out there to see what happens. So as far as I'm concerned, that's nothing to get depressed about!

Even with a great book, the chances of getting a traditional contract "back in the day" were really terrible. The chances of launching a career with a great book as an indie are much better than that, but you still have to do everything necessary to make sure that book you think is great, actually is.


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## Ashlynn_Monroe (May 24, 2012)

No living here. I'm not alone. I've noticed a big trend of authors who'd quit jobs returning to the work force this year. I've never lived off my writing income. In fact, in February I took a second job, so now technically I work three of them.   So is the life of the most prolific author you've never heard of. I've had over 60 works published (many are long gone now) since 2010. Yesterday was my author-aversery in fact! If you are new to this business please don't quit your job until you are making more money writing than working outside the home. Even then if you're in the US you'll probably still want to hang onto that job for employer sponsored health insurance. I actually like my main day job. The people are amazing humans I look forward to seeing. The work is fun. My second job I hate. Writing is the job of my heart. I work way to hard to be this broke. My typical day is up with the kids, work at 8 am until 4:30 pm and then home to feed the family. I start job two from 6-10 pm and then I write until I can't keep my eyes open. Rise and repeat...it sucks. I find moments to write here and there and my weekends are usually spent writing if I'm not marking the hell out of something. Anyway, if you want to help me out go to kindle scout and vote for my book Moonlight's Peril you can support my career advancement free of charge. I'm not putting the link here since I don't think I was supposed to get promo girl here. Like I said, learn to multitask and you'll be okay. *snort*

Honestly, I made much more money before 2012. When things started to change those of us who press publish had a much harder time. Marketing has become a challenge. With so many books being lost is norm. If I hadn't already established before that time I would never sell a thing.


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

I'm still in my first year of publishing, but I make 5 figures a month, so I imagine I'll be in the 6 figure range by year end.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

My boyfriend makes six figures, which was one of the reasons I was able to jump into self-publishing with both feet and write full-time from the get-go. He agreed to support me for a couple of months while I did so, and it's paid off. 

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

I write new adult fantasy... Most call my series urban fantasy. I'm a series girl, my research told me that standalones generally don't net as much, so I planned to do a series from the get-go. Now I'm a good way into book 4, and I just finished book 1 of a second series I'm going to write concurrently to my first.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

I've only got the one name.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

I wish I'd gotten my third book out faster. About three weeks before it released my ranking for the first two took a dive, and even my new release promotion strategy didn't help a whole bunch (some, but I imagine the tail will die off soon). Don't get me wrong, the books still sell decently by most standards, but I've gotten... Spoiled, I guess, with my early success, and I'm getting a little nervous about whether or not I'll be able to get the first in my series to bounce back up to where it was for over two months.


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## celadon (Sep 12, 2015)

MMacLeod said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking. Just like artists, actors, and musicians, there are a lot of people who "want" to be writers. Most of them will never complete a single manuscript. Of those that do complete one, a fair number will never complete a second and will never allow the first to see the light of day.


Yes! Absolutely!

I am a "writer," in that I have two books out, another on the way, and while I don't make a lot money, I _am_ making money.

But I'm not a "writer." I like to write, but I only do non-fiction and I only write about stuff I know. In other words, I'm a glorified blogger or "article writer."

I have a friend who is an extremely good writer. She writes fan fiction. She should be writing novels. I have talked to her in the past about doing what I'm doing, but the last time I heard, she's not doing it. Maybe she eventually will. I hope so.

What's the difference between her and me? I'm DOING something. In all my non-writer glory, I am far more of a "successful" writer, sadly, than my friend, and more successful than probably 80-90% of other Amazon authors because I have written (almost) three books, I have paid for promotion, I have a website, I have a mailing list, and I'm HERE. And I'm not even a _writer_-writer! LOL!


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2016)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> In the spirit of Adam Croft, the Author Earnings report and Hugh Howey's old thread, I was wondering: who is making a living from this?
> 
> No obligation to answer the below questions, but it'd be great for us prawns who are a little unmotivated after yesterday's report.
> 
> ...


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## spellscribe (Nov 5, 2015)

Quiet you give all the little prawns like me hope  thank you for posting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nicole M (Nov 1, 2012)

D-C said:


> KBoards is a microcosm. We're lucky to have many successful authors in our midst, bit I do think it's sometimes easy to assume 'most' self-pub authors are making a living wage (especially when you look at the wealth of experience we have here), when in fact, the reality is that the majority don't.


Truth. Personally, this is a motivator to me. I imagine a lot of people jump into self-publishing without doing any research whatsoever. Hence, why they're not selling. And then there's kboarders. We're notorious for obsessing over what sells and giving hard data for what works. At the expense of sounding pretentious, I believe that we're a bit above the rest because at least most of us have done our research. But what do I know? I haven't even published  I'll make sure to share my measly numbers when I do.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?

Veterans too, which is sneaky unsurprising to me--if there's one thing you learn in the service, it's cunning. All warfare begins with deception, and it's often harder to stay one step ahead of your NCOs or commanders than the enemy. You can go far in small business just by being a crafty, determined son of a bitch. Also doesn't hurt to write what you know if one of the things you happen to know is explosions.

Then there's Hugh, I guess. Good luck explaining Hugh.


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## Elliott Kay (Jan 12, 2016)

Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?


High school social studies & language arts teacher for 12 years. I've had my own classroom, but mostly I've worked as a sub--although a lot of that is long-term assignments. I've also taught in alternative schools and even juvenile detention.

Oh and I was in the Coast Guard for 4 years, so I guess I fall into that veterans category.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?
> 
> Veterans too, which is sneaky unsurprising to me--if there's one thing you learn in the service, it's cunning. All warfare begins with deception, and it's often harder to stay one step ahead of your NCOs or commanders than the enemy. You can go far in small business just by being a crafty, determined son of a b*tch. Also doesn't hurt to write what you know if one of the things you happen to know is explosions.
> 
> Then there's Hugh, I guess. Good luck explaining Hugh.


Well, I've also been a 7-11 clerk, an emergency dispatcher, a security guard, a professional kidnapper, a horse trainer, and an alternative model. So... not all analytical jobs


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## elizabethsade (Feb 3, 2015)

Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?


Social sciences PhD student, here. Although I do a lot of statistics.


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## BillyHigginsPeery (Oct 24, 2015)

Annie B said:


> Well, I've also been a 7-11 clerk, an emergency dispatcher, a security guard, a professional kidnapper, a horse trainer, and an alternative model. So... not all analytical jobs


Hope this isn't rude to ask, since I know I'm a complete stranger, but what does being a "professional kidnapper" entail? I mean, I can make some guesses, but pretty much all of them end up with people in prison.

I'm also curious about "alternative modeling."


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

1) Yes, I make an average wage from writing. High five. 

2) I have income on top of my current author income, derived from other sources which is why I can write whatever I want to write these days. This is income I've earned from writing and other creative sources, not spouse earnings. 

3) I write health science articles for medical journals, ghost written memoirs, and traditionally published books on health related issues, ghost written for health-related organisations. These are stand-alone, but series related as to the topics the organisations represent. I've been doing that work for more than forty years. I've stopped and started and stopped once again, accepting that work over the past five years so that I can write the historical fiction set in Australia, rural-lit novels that I've always wanted to write. 

Travel writing has provided an income and a fabulous International travel lifestyle for more than a decade. Again, I ceased that when I began publishing my rural-lit work. 

Third income: (Ha  Just as well I grow most of our food and own everything we need) The book in my name are my writing passion, the income fluctuates, I could not live off it. I write the above income earning, all commission writing, as a day job and I write what I love to write at night. I write this as series. I have a two book series; book 3 is a pre-order and my current WIP. I have two completed series. I have one stand-alone that will later be book one in a series. I have another series part written. I have ten books. my peak income was two years ago. I've currently dropped off the cliff and need to get my new novel out. 
I would need to change the genre to see a big change. I don't intend to. I am however always striving to improve within the genre that I love reading and writing. That is more important to me that chasing greener pasture. 

4) PEN NAMES. I have six, and I'm usually working in three at a time. The pen name are the income earners as they write to a practical need. I call that my bread and butter writing job. I never considered myself a writer in all those years when I did this commissioned writing. I simply thought of it as writing about stuff that I knew about or could interview other about, at another's request. It wasn't until I wrote in my name that I considered myself an author. The fact that the first makes more money than the later is irrelevant to me. I would have earned $30k a year from pen names before I began refusing that work to find the time to write historical fiction. I laughed all the way to exploring outback Australia in a 4wheel drive, rather than laughed to the bank. 

5) If you had to start all over again? I would have tried harder, when I was younger, to not be intimidated and afraid to show people my writing. I was frightened of people watching me write as a child, although I loved writing stories, I hid them. I have blind spots and I'm profoundly dyslectic. It took me until I was in my sixties to have the courage to know that I will not die of embarrassment for a typo. I do pay two editor to go over my work prior to publishing, but to post unedited on forums, such a this, once would have terrified me. You may notice that I don't post often, as I write slow. 

Financially, I probably should have begun writing novels back when I first decided that I wanted to, back when I was thirteen, rather than waiting until exactly fifty years later and with my head crowded with unwritten stories. I probably should have chosen a highly popular genre. But, I'm not motivated by money. I've started each type of writing that I've done at a time when I was ready to do it, and I stop, change genre, when it suits me, because it's how I want to write at that time. That attitude will not make me rich and famous, but it makes me happy, and that's wealth.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

BillyHigginsPeery said:


> Hope this isn't rude to ask, since I know I'm a complete stranger, but what does being a "professional kidnapper" entail? I mean, I can make some guesses, but pretty much all of them end up with people in prison.
> 
> I'm also curious about "alternative modeling."


I legally kidnapped "problem" teenagers (as in, with permission from legal guardians and lots of paperwork) and hauled them off to reform and military schools. It was... interesting. And made me super grateful my parents didn't choose to deal with me that way when I was a rebellious teen, heh.

Alternative modeling- think more Suicide Girls than America's Next Top Model


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## Kristen Painter (Apr 21, 2010)

Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?


I've never been any of those things. My last job before I became a full time writer was working in my family's residential and commercial building business. I've also been a maitre'd for Wolfgang Puck, a college English teacher and a personal trainer/gym owner. I'm more successful as an indie author than I was as a trad author, but I'm also more successful as an indie author than I've ever been at anything else I've done.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Annie B said:


> Well, I've also been a 7-11 clerk, an emergency dispatcher, a security guard, a professional kidnapper, a horse trainer, and an alternative model. So... not all analytical jobs


That might be another clue that you'll wind up writing. Or maybe it's the one that's actually relevant, and the analytical jobs are just incidental to our...eclectic prior experience.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?


Wow, I've done all those things except two, though I'm not a successful indie author (yet!) like so many others here. I used to practice law, I played poker semi-professionally, I paid bills during college working as a programmer, and I've been a government analyst. I've never worked as an engineer, though I planned on becoming an engineer until my life veered off in another direction and I went to law school instead. I've never worked as an accountant, though.


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## DougLawless (May 31, 2016)

Ryn Shell said:


> Financially, I probably should have begun writing novels back when I first decided that I wanted to, back when I was thirteen, rather than waiting until exactly fifty years later and with my head crowded with unwritten stories. I probably should have chosen a highly popular genre. But, I'm not motivated by money. I'me started each type of writing that I've done at a time when I was ready to do it, and I stop, change genre, when it suits me, because it's how I want to write at that time. That attitude will not make me rich and famous, but it makes me happy, and that's wealth.


I love this. Thank you. It's my inspiration for the day.


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?


Count me in as an engineer, programmer and successful pro poker player. At the moment, I'm using my savings from poker to support my attempted writing career. Might have to return to poker (I'm non-US) or engineering one of these days for the easy money.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

David J Normoyle said:


> Count me in as an engineer, programmer and successful pro poker player. At the moment, I'm using my savings from poker to support my attempted writing career. Might have to return to poker (I'm non-US) or engineering one of these days for the easy money.


(love your covers)

I'm not a poker player, or an engineer, or an analyst etc, but I am (or I was) a marketing manager. So I already had experience with marketing (albeit overseas property - not at all like books!). But, the marketing experience taught me what COULD be done. It didn't do anything for how to break into the publishing business.


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## mrforbes (Feb 16, 2013)

1) Yes. Low-mid six figures.

2) No. I also have a full-time job as a software engineer (of course  ).

3) I started with urban fantasy and fantasy, all series. The UF did midlist well. The fantasy started out as a flop, though it has done really well as a box set since completion.  I saw the biggest change when I switched to sci-fi. Both of my sci-fi series launched in/on the edge of Amazon's Top 100.

4) None

5) Direct to sci-fi, and not having so many series going at the same time.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Just wanted to say thank you to the OP for the questions and to everyone else for the answers -- so interesting and inspiring (and a little intimidating ;-D ) to this prawn with just 1 book (serialized) published....SO FAR. 

FWIW  it earned me low 5 figures in 6 months, which I thought was pretty good for first book from new author.  Working on the sequel and some shorts in the same genre {classic Regency romance} and just reading through this thread inspires me to write faster and publish more and reach that 6 figure sooner rather than later, but definitely! :-D

DMac
w/a Victoria Hodge


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## Jess Haines (Jun 6, 2016)

*1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? *

As a trad pubbed author, not anymore. At my highest point, I made over $20K in one year. I took a break for appx. 2 years after moving across the country due to a number of factors I won't bore you with, and while I still get some sales, the numbers are nowhere near what I used to make.

As an indie author, not yet, but I'm off to a good start. I had my first indie release on May 1st, and for that month, at mid four figures I've already made triple my last royalty check from the NY pub. We're only 6 days into June and I've already made almost half what I made in May, so I'm thinking it's safe to say this was a good move on my part. 

*2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?*

No. I have a day job as a technical writer. This is my main staple for income and pays my bills. Everything I get from my books is icing, though I hope one day I can switch to being a full time novelist.

*3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?*

Most people know me for my urban fantasy series, but I've just dipped my toe in young adult/new adult fantasy romance. I also write horror and paranormal romance. I've written both series and standalone, but the bulk of my work is series. I have 6 novels published in the UF series, 2 other published novels, and a couple of novellas.

My NY-pubbed work took a dive around the release of the last book. Prior to that, my numbers were steadily rising every year. I'll be sticking around the boards to see what I can learn and I'll happily share info about what is/isn't working for the new release if anybody is interested.

*4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?*

Just the one.

*5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.*

Don't ignore red flags and listen to the advice: "if you're not going to be published well, don't publish at all." That, and get rolling on this indie business much sooner. I had friends who were very successful at it giving me nudges but I was stubborn and honestly a bit afraid to take the leap. I probably would have saved myself a lot of stress and heartache if I had listened.



Dolphin said:


> I'm always struck and never surprised by how many successful indies have previous lives doing something analytical. I mean hell, show of hands: who ISN'T a reformed attorney, engineer, card sharp, analyst, accountant, or programmer?


*raises hand*

I have mostly done boring office clerk jobs, IT support (not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination), and technical writing. I also had a brief stint as a backup singer in a blues band.


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## DanaG (Feb 13, 2011)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

Yes, I make a very good living.  Anywhere from $15,000 to $35,000 a month.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

Only income.  No pension, I'm divorced, and had no savings when I started this. 

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?  

I write paranormal romance with shifters.  Each book has a couple who have an HEA, but I'll write a series that's set in the same universe for, say, 6 or 7 books.  I have several dozen books out, I write a new book every 3 to 6 weeks, and it took me about a dozen books to finally figure out which genre worked for me.  

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

Only one pen name. 

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

If I had to start all over again, knowing what I do now, I would, as someone else here mentioned, have paid more attention to writing to market.  I would have started with romance rather than writing erotica.  I would have made sure that I had a newsletter list with a link in my books from the very beginning.  I would have written in popular genres that I like (which is what finally made me money) rather than writing in popular genres that I hate, such as billionaire bdsm.


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## going going gone (Jun 4, 2013)

1) Yes


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Seems as though KBoards IS the 1%


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## BillyHigginsPeery (Oct 24, 2015)

Annie B said:


> I legally kidnapped "problem" teenagers (as in, with permission from legal guardians and lots of paperwork) and hauled them off to reform and military schools. It was... interesting. And made me super grateful my parents didn't choose to deal with me that way when I was a rebellious teen, heh.
> 
> Alternative modeling- think more Suicide Girls than America's Next Top Model


Haha, those are certainly interesting jobs! Thanks for answering.


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## Romancer (May 22, 2016)

1. I make $5k to $12k a month. Although I haven't made less than 5 figures in a few months.
2. My husband works but he's able to take a lot of time off. He also carries our insurance. It's basically the only reason he is still working.
3. Romance. Contemporary and Paranormal.
4. I have two pen names.
5. There isn't much I would do differently. I learned a lot from other people before even beginning. I would have written to market sooner. My first book was a heart project and made no money. But I am happy I did it to get it out of the way. Although sometimes I wish I had waited to write it when I had a bigger list to share it with.


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

You guys have nailed all the responses and this is FANTASTIC.

It does look like Kboards is the 2% (I'm typing on my phone and it auto-corrected to 2% instead of 1% and I feel like that is a good sign, so I will listen to evil Apple and double the stats!) which is good because it means I am at the right place, but bad because it's terrifying knowing how little room there is for people in that little spot.

Annie, I read all of the threads you quoted at me, re: DWS and dear God, they were long. But I fully understand your position now. It's really opened up my eyes, so thanks. &#128522; It's no wonder you were such exciting books, you've lived more than enough luves for them!



Annie B said:


> Well, I've also been a 7-11 clerk, an emergency dispatcher, a security guard, a professional kidnapper, a horse trainer, and an alternative model. So... not all analytical jobs


This is such an inspiring thread. I'm glad I started it and DELIGHTED everyone responded.

You're all generous, brilliant people. x

Side note: how many of you crazy successful people farm out your extras? Copy editing, proofreading, developmental editing, and covers? This might be an interesting point of contention. Also, wide or Select?


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## Summerstars (Mar 23, 2016)

Great thread!!


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

spellscribe said:


> Quiet you give all the little prawns like me hope  thank you for posting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im glad you're finding this thread useful as I started it because of your thread and the fact that you seemed quite down and demoralised. I know what it is like to not believe in yourself, or to think it's not going to happen for you, and I know we aren't the only prawns here who feel it. I was hoping you could show this to your other half. As there is nothing worse than having to justify something to someone important to you, when you can't quite justify it to yourself. I think a lot of us feel like we are clutching at straws, or being silly to think that we can make a living doing something we love, and that our sacrifices are selfish in that respect.

But if writing is what makes you happy, then that is what you should do, especially if it isn't harming your children or your family budget. So hopefully this thread has lifted your spirits, as I know it has definitely lifted mine, and also satiated my persistent nosiness. I will last a whole week now before I start asking personal questions again.


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? 

I figured I'd chime in as one of the not even close to 1%ers.  I consistently make enough to pay a low auto loan bill monthly.  My best year was 2012 and I made less than 20k.  I do very little advertising because I've got kids college bills and weddings I have had to pay as well as saving for retirement which all have taken priority... 


2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

No - it's a side income.  Both hubby and I make an exceptional living in corporate America (4 more years before I say enough unless we hit the lottery), thus I haven't pushed the writing all that much just because the tax hit is huge.  Most years I've barely broke even with the exception of 2012, so my expenditure is equal to or greater than my income - which is a strategy so I don't owe the government up to five figures come tax time. 

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

Supernatural thriller, paranormal romantic suspense, erotic romance, horror.  Dark things.  Most are series and I've kind of intertwined 4 or 5 series together - so it's been fun. No change yet - but next year I'm planning on a different series- more light mystery.
I saw the biggest change in income so far with the investment in cover art and branding.  

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

One name only.  

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

I would invest in good editors and cover artists early on.  I was naive and thought my first publisher actually had editors on staff or at least proof readers, but that was not the case.  Thus some of my initial earlier works were a grammatical mess and I spent significant income later to have them professionally edited.    

I also would have started a newsletter earlier and looked at a street team.  I still don't have these capitalized enough- but my fan base is slowly growing. 

Thanks for asking the questions and this thread has been a very interesting read.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm going to participate although I'm nowhere near the top 1%. I've got 6 books out, 5 in one series and 1 with Kindle Press/Scout in a new series. I write mysteries with a dash of humor. Last year I was consistently making $1500/month but something slammed to a halt in December and my books haven't recovered since. Now I'm lucky to make $800/month. 

That said, my progress has been steady (up until Dec.) so I am encouraged to keep going. I have good reviews on all my books and have a nice little fan base. Writing the first draft is very hard for me, so my production output is much lower than it should be. Kboards helps me stay current with news and techniques but when reading these kinds of threads, I do often feel... unworthy? Less than? I dunno. I see people making several thousand a month (or more!) and I try and figure out what I'm not doing right. I think the bottom line for me is I'm simply not producing fast enough, and I'll have to be content with the slow and steady approach because I can't seem to do more than that without burning out. 

But enough wah, wah, wah from me. I only wanted to add my experience to the pot.


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## Scott.Tracey (Nov 30, 2014)

Thank you so much for this thread. I'm dipping my toe in with self-publishing, and these are some fascinating (although atypical from the sounds of it) examples.  Thank you to everyone who has shared so far.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

I'll chip in, even though I'm not part of the 1%. 



> 1) Do you make a living? What range?


Nope. I made about $15,000 last year. I imagine this year will be similar, if I can manage to get a book out.



> 2) is this income your only income?


No, I have a regular job. My writing income allowed me to go part-time this last year, which was awesome, but that was a one-time thing, at least for the time being. If I were to suddenly start making boatloads of money at writing, I'd probably still teach part time. I don't like the idea of quitting a job with full benefits and a pension. What if something were to happen to my spouse? (As you can see, I'm the cautious type.) Also, it's probably not great for me to sit around on the couch eating bon-bons all day, which is probably what I'd actually do if I didn't have a job.  But having a less stressful and time-consuming job would be wonderful.



> 3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?


I write a sort of mash-up of urban fantasy, portal fantasy, and alternative history. I call it urban/contemporary fantasy for short. It's a series: two novels and a short, so far. I haven't had a big breakout, but it did make a noticeable difference when I finally published a book with a price tag, as opposed to freebies. 



> 4) PEN NAMES.


Just the one, though I've toyed with making another and doing something different. I spend a lot of time being blocked on my current series. Or, not "blocked," exactly, but letting the corn grow at night. Maybe there's something else I could write during those periods.



> 5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do?


Not much, really. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never produce work at optimal indie speeds, or even sub-sub-suboptimal speeds. Thus, I have low income expectations and rarely feel disappointed. I enjoy so much having this creative outlet. I had to give up my tenure-track literature job and become a writing lecturer a few years ago, so as to not continue living on the opposite side of the country from my spouse. That could've been embittering. Instead, it looked like an opportunity to make fiction a bigger part of my life. I'm so happy to have discovered indie publishing.


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## Kristen Painter (Apr 21, 2010)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> Side note: how many of you crazy successful people farm out your extras? Copy editing, proofreading, developmental editing, and covers? This might be an interesting point of contention. Also, wide or Select?


I have a team of professionals that I work with to do edits, copy edits, proofreading, covers and formatting. In addition, I have two assistants who help me with things like additional proofing (mostly of my audio books), social media, running my FB page and review team group, and keeping my series bible up to date. I also have an agent who handles some things and a lawyer who handles others.

I tried KU with some backlist stuff but didn't see enough money to stay. My reader base is wide and that's where I need to be too. As of the 12th, all of my KU books will be out and on all vendors.


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## MMacLeod (Sep 21, 2015)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> Side note: how many of you crazy successful people farm out your extras? Copy editing, proofreading, developmental editing, and covers? This might be an interesting point of contention. Also, wide or Select?


I hire a proofreader to do two read-thrus. First she reads for big picture stuff- the overall story, places where she thinks I need to explain more, or tread carefully, etc., as well as awkward phrasing or poor word choice. The second time through is for spelling, punctuation, and typos. This runs around $225 for a 70k word manuscript.

I also exchange ideas and beta reading with another writer (free except for my time).

I do my own covers but if time gets short or I want artwork that is beyond my abilities, I will be happy to hire this out in the future.

I paid to have my website created for me, and I will probably pay on occasion to have pages updated.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I have an assistant who does audio proofing and runs my FB group, handles advance copies, books and evaluates promo, etc. She works about 15 hours a week.

I have a cover designer/graphics person and always have. I would STRONGLY advise anyone who wants to sell books to have professional covers made unless you are a cover designer or have mad skills. I do my own editing because I was a copy editor for 10 years and edited/self edited for another 10. My alpha and beta readers do some proofreading. On my trad pubbed books I do have the full complement of editing and I've learned a lot from the developmental editor. The CEs and proofreaders don't do much because my stuff is pretty clean. 

I have a formatter who does ebook and paperback and keeps links updated etc. because I find that boring. I used to do my own and they were fine, but his are prettier. 

I have an agent. I am in Select because it's always been very lucrative for me and is much easier, and I seem to have more of an Amazon audience. Also I am a Montlake author so am quite visible on Amazon, though that is very recent (less than a year.)

I don't do very much marketing or spend much on it, other than a price promo on an earlier book to promote a new one and maybe another one between releases. I cross promote very little and don't do Facebook parties etc. I really try to reserve my time and money for the things that have proved highly effective for me.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

*1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?*

Yes, low six figures. I'm currently wide and make most of my income across 6 books.

*2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?*

I'm a stay-at-home mom. We had my husband's income and health insurance to fall back on, so indie publishing wasn't a big risk for me when I started out (no day job to quit).

*3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?*

Fantasy. Sometimes coming of age, sometimes high fantasy.

*4) PEN NAMES.*

I have another name in a different genre (Victorian mystery) but it's pretty much retired and doesn't contribute significantly to my sales.

*5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.*

I'd publish sooner. My most popular books were written 8 years before I ever published them. They sat around collecting trad rejections and gathering dust while I wrote other stuff, trying to catch trad publishers' interest. I didn't discover indie publishing, rewrite those early books, and self-publish them until 2012. If I'd had a crystal ball and acted sooner, I'd be a couple years ahead in my indie career.


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## spellscribe (Nov 5, 2015)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> Im glad you're finding this thread useful as I started it because of your thread and the fact that you seemed quite down and demoralised. I know what it is like to not believe in yourself, or to think it's not going to happen for you, and I know we aren't the only prawns here who feel it. I was hoping you could show this to your other half. As there is nothing worse than having to justify something to someone important to you, when you can't quite justify it to yourself. I think a lot of us feel like we are clutching at straws, or being silly to think that we can make a living doing something we love, and that our sacrifices are selfish in that respect.
> 
> But if writing is what makes you happy, then that is what you should do, especially if it isn't harming your children or your family budget. So hopefully this thread has lifted your spirits, as I know it has definitely lifted mine, and also satiated my persistent nosiness. I will last a whole week now before I start asking personal questions again.


I can't thank you enough  I have a few threads like this bookmarked, to pull out when the motivation or confidence is waning. This one is my favourite so far.

I love you guys!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> Side note: how many of you crazy successful people farm out your extras? Copy editing, proofreading, developmental editing, and covers? This might be an interesting point of contention. Also, wide or Select?


I've always hired out the non-writing jobs, with the exception of doing my own promo graphics and the photo manipulated covers for my mysteries. (I'm a retired designer and still enjoy doing some of my own design work). I hire proofreaders, formatters, web designers, an illustrator for the covers of my fantasies, a cartographer, and a narrator for audio.

I've moved in and out of Select at different times but am wide at the moment.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

*1) Do you make a living?* High six figures. I'm wide. 37-ish books, most full-length

*2) is this income your only income?* Yes

*3) what genre do you write in? * Romantic suspense and new adult

*4) PEN NAMES*. none

*5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do [differently?]?* Nothing  It's working out pretty well for me.

Most of my friends make low six figures and most of them have been doing it a while, have pen names, and publish frequently.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

PeanutButterCracker said:


> *5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do [differently?]?* Nothing  It's working out pretty well for me.


You wouldn't have dropped the SF you used to do and switch to erotic romance sooner?


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## Itsro (May 27, 2016)

Carol (was Dara), your covers are some of the coolest i've seen on Kboards.  Very nice!


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

mach 5 said:


> You wouldn't have dropped the SF you used to do and switch to erotic romance sooner?


No.  I Love that SF series. It taught me so many things. See this post if you want more info. http://jahuss.com/marketing-tip-monday-seven-self-publishing-mistakes-i-made-that-you-might-want-to-make-too/


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## Rachel E. Rice (Jan 4, 2014)

PeanutButterCracker said:


> No.  I Love that SF series. It taught me so many things. See this post if you want more info. http://jahuss.com/marketing-tip-monday-seven-self-publishing-mistakes-i-made-that-you-might-want-to-make-too/


Thanks for this post and thanks for including JA Huss marketing tips. A must read, and if you haven't read her books, listen to the audio on her website you may become a fan.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

I laughed my ass off with the conference scene in Mr. Perfect and, as a reader, I, too, loved that SF series.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

mach 5 said:


> I laughed my ass off with the conference scene in Mr. Perfect and, as a reader, I, too, loved that SF series.


Glad you liked it. I naturally write dark books, so that was new and different.


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## Cap&#039;n Crunch (Aug 10, 2009)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?

Looks like I'll be in six figures this year. I quit a cruise ship job in August to focus solely on publishing with a goal of making 2k/month (I figured if I'm writing, I'm happy; I don't need much else). Now that I'm actually concentrating on this, well, now sales are going like gangbusters. I'm in Select with 62 titles, with the majority of my sales coming from my two UF titles and three M/M series.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

Sole income.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

M/M romance, but this year I decided to expand into a larger pool: UF. To say it was a good move is an understatement. I think some authors need to seriously consider whether a shift can benefit them by widening their reach.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

I have several, but my real name is where I'm making my income. I use it for both the M/M Romance and the UF. Doesn't seem to be a problem yet for my readers.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers

I'm a firm believer that there's no point in regret or wishing for something different. Everything had to happen exactly as it did for me to be where I am today, which is a place I never thought I could be.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

*1) Do you make a living?*

Not yet. I'm sort of the inverse 1%, and I probably shouldn't answer since you seem to want only the "big" names here, but I wanted to let newbies and those like me know that it's not hopeless. Sometimes it's discouraging to see people making such good money, when you're flailing around and not getting anywhere.

I currently make pocket money. It was better when I was publishing my niche shorts, but I wanted to stop doing those and focus more on my more general work, so the income has been dropping. But I know I can do better, once the other stuff is done and out.

*2) is this income your only income?*

Yes. I'm working on a second income stream, unrelated to writing, but there's some learning and practice to do before I launch it.

*3) what genre do you write in?* Science fiction (mostly PA fiction, often with zombies) and horror, with an UF series slowly percolating through the brain pan (it's so hard, series are _not_ my thing).

*4) PEN NAMES.*

I have three, with my real name reserved for nonfiction (sort of related to that other income stream I'm working on).

*5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do [differently?]?*

My five year plan would be a one year plan, or at most a two year plan. I started in early 2011, and things moved a bit slower then. I was not prepared for how quickly things were going to change, nor in the crap life was going to throw me. I'd been going along, learning and publishing shorts just to get into the business, then first my mother and then my father got really sick. It was so stressful my writing suffered.

For three years I mostly took care of them, and then my youngest went a bit off the rails and that just added to the stress. Add in my own health issues, and from 2012 until late last year, it was a struggle to do anything. I've rebooted and started over so many times, only to have something else happen that just tossed all my plans out the window.

I would have jumped on Select, and started a mailing list as soon as people started talking about them. I would have worked on my novels first, rather than do my learning on short stories.

I do everything in-house: covers, editing, formatting. I can't afford to hire anyone to do it right now, so I spend time (which I have ample reserves of). I've been a reporter for a local paper, and we were expected to turn in clean, ready-to-typeset articles, and I also founded and was editor and chief writer for a company newsletter, so I'm used to proofing my own work. I have some art skills, so doing the covers wasn't impossible, once I learned how to use a graphics program. I'm not perfect, and I don't think everyone can do it, but it's working for me.

Eventually, I hope to be able to pay someone to run promotions and do social media, keep up my website and that sort of thing. I really hate that stuff. I'd like to buy covers for my longer works (probably do the short stories myself) and at least get a proofreader.

To answer another question, I've gone to school for accounting and computer programming, a long, long time ago, but never worked in those fields. I've had all sorts of jobs over the years, store clerk, receptionist, secretary, mill worker, maintenance mechanic. I was in the USAF, which in my day spent a lot of time and effort to teach you to follow orders without question, then put you in a job and expected you to do it without being ordered around every day. 

I'm really into crafts and making things. I can build stuff, repair stuff, sew, paint, model clay, knit and crochet a little, though some things are hard or impossible to do now, with arthritis and carpal tunnel. I can cook, clean, raise kids, take care of animals, garden. A lady of all trades.  I've been writing since I was a kid, and always told myself stories.


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## AYClaudy (Oct 2, 2014)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?

_As of the last 6 months I'm making low 6 figures. I was initially wide at the start of this spike but am now in select. 4 books total._

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the mildest?

_I'm a teacher as well and husband works. But I'm on maternity leave now and testing out being a full time writer. Just bought a house and paid off debt, it all depends how much we can save as to what I'll do come fall._

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?
_I write New Adult romance. I have a series but it was my stand alone that launched my livable income (my fourth book)._

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

_No pen names_

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? 
_I'd do it all sooner and stop looking for others to tell me what works and how to do it. Don't get me wrong, this forum and researching others is great for learning, but in the end everyone is just testing out their strategies in an ever changing market. Eventually you have to test out your own strategy and see what happens! _


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Itsro said:


> Carol (was Dara), your covers are some of the coolest i've seen on Kboards. Very nice!


Thanks Itsro! I was lucky to get a great artist.


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## M.D. Massey (Dec 3, 2013)

Heck of an interesting thread. Seems like the commonalities between authors who are making mid-five figures and up are:

1. Writing a series
2. Sticking with a genre
3. Single author identity for those with less than 20 books pubbed; multiple for 20 and up
4. Pro editing and cover design
5. Writing in hot markets

I'm a freelance business consultant by day, so I spend a lot of time studying the common threads among people who are successful at what they do, and passing that along to my clients. 

Another interesting thing I noticed about this thread - there are a lot of INTJ/INTP types in here.


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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

she-la-ti-da said:


> *1) Do you make a living?*
> 
> Not yet. I'm sort of the inverse 1%, and I probably shouldn't answer since you seem to want only the "big" names here, but I wanted to let newbies and those like me know that it's not hopeless. Sometimes it's discouraging to see people making such good money, when you're flailing around and not getting anywhere.
> 
> ...


Your input is appreciated. I'm in the "inverse 1%" too, and I seem to have a knack for picking a decent genre and subverting the tropes just enough to turn it on its ear, and trying release strategies that bounce around, rather than bounce up. I'm slowly coming around to the focus on genre, or at least what will end up being my take on it (there's only so far I can go). I started indie pubbing in 2012, too, and things moved far faster than I was able to grapple with and it took me a lot longer to pull up stakes from pursuing trad publishing. I've made it this year's goal to really focus on getting rid of the old thinking, and trying to be more workmanlike in getting the career stuff in place. I have spent a lot of months gathering data, and analyzing efforts to promote this series--trying to figure out where my weak points are--lack of advertising/awareness, too-small genre, or trope-fail.

Regardless, it's nice to know there are others out there who are using the "flail better" method of making career progress.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

M.D. Massey said:


> ...
> 
> Another interesting thing I noticed about this thread - there are a lot of INTJ/INTP types in here.


LOL, which do you think are INTJ/P?


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Boyd said:


> For reals  I wanna know what I am!!!


 I'd say, you're an ISFJ


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

mach 5 said:


> LOL, which do you think are INTJ/P?


Well, I'm INTJ (not the 1%), but they are usually engineers, mathy types. Why are writers INTJ

Artist is the headline profession for the ISFP group.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

David J Normoyle said:


> Well, I'm INTJ (not the 1%), but they are usually engineers, mathy types. Why are writers INTJ
> 
> Artist is the headline profession for the ISFP group.


I'm pretty sure there have been threads before where a very large number of kboarders have been INTJs.
I have tested as INTJ since a workplace tested me in one of my first ever jobs. I think INTJs are likely to be 'big picture' people - in any field.
(Of course, that myer-briggs test has been critised by a lot of experts as not being accurate. Personally, I think it's pretty good.)


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

David J Normoyle said:


> Well, I'm INTJ (not the 1%), but they are usually engineers, mathy types. Why are writers INTJ
> 
> Artist is the headline profession for the ISFP group.


Ah - I think the earlier comments that there seem to be a lot of analytical professionals represented here (attorneys, engineers, accountants) and people responding affirmatively led to the original INTJ/P call out.

Law, interestingly, can be looked at as nothing more than a bunch of stories (sometimes accompanied by legislative code). Remembering the story's elements is one way to remember the rules for that area of law as the facts often make the law (and often make for bad law).

Engineers are builders/makers, so I see them as potential story tellers, too. Accountants lie for fun and profit (J/K)...


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I am in INXX, so sorry, nope  (X is what they give you if you fall at 50%/50% fyi)


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

mach 5 said:


> Ah - I think the earlier comments that there seem to be a lot of analytical professionals represented here (attorneys, engineers, accountants) and people responding affirmatively led to the original INTJ/P call out.


I can't escape my INTJ nature. I considered law before choosing engineering, worked as a programmer, then online poker player (90%+ INTJ) and now I find out writers are INTJ. (At least I've never been an accountant.)


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

Annie B said:


> I am in INXX, so sorry, nope  (X is what they give you if you fall at 50%/50% fyi)


I didn't know about the Xs before.

That would make me a XNXX. I flunked the Meyers Briggs test. It's not much use to me.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

ameliasmith said:


> I didn't know about the Xs before.
> 
> That would make me a XNXX. I flunked the Meyers Briggs test. It's not much use to me.


Maybe try OCEAN (similarminds.com) - it is 5 possible answers per question, from very likely, somewhat likely, neutral, somewhat unlikely, very unlikely. I test INTP on MBTI because you have to go for best answer between 2, and INTJ on the OCEAN.


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## AYClaudy (Oct 2, 2014)

Infp here. 

Although, when I took the test in college, my teacher said I didn't really know myself well since I scored near the middle between all the letters. 

I like to think I just have too many people in me to be any one way and that's good for writing.


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## G.L. Snodgrass (Aug 12, 2014)

INTJ here


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

mach 5 said:


> Maybe try OCEAN (similarminds.com) - it is 5 possible answers per question, from very likely, somewhat likely, neutral, somewhat unlikely, very unlikely. I test INTP on MBTI because you have to go for best answer between 2, and INTJ on the OCEAN.


I find MBTI very interesting! It certainly helped me a lot with understanding how different people function.

The person who took me through it (they were some sort of official MBTI presenter but not a psychologist) said that it's very common for the tests to give the wrong result (because people subconsciously answer as they wish they were instead of how they actually are. Also people can be trained by their environment into operating outside of their natural preferences.) After we did the test, we weren't given the results but instead had to do a series of exercises to work out what we thought we were. We then got the results of the test, compared them to what we had worked out ourselves and decided which was more accurate (if they weren't the same). So all of that is to say, don't worry too much about the test results - look at the descriptions of the four pairs and then at the descriptions of the 16 different personality types and work out what you are from that.

And, in case anyone's curious, I'm ENTJ - from the looks of things us Es are pretty outnumbered around here!


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm an INTJ. Masterminds in the house 

I only but into MBTI so much, but INTJs are quite inclined to self publish. We are independent to the point of detesting taking orders. We are creative and analytical, so we can balance art and business. We are quite serious about our investment in everything, including entertainment. INTJs have no need for the trivial and we prefer mastery over breadth.


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## EvanPickering (Mar 8, 2016)

BeMyBookBaby said:


> In the spirit of Adam Croft, the Author Earnings report and Hugh Howey's old thread, I was wondering: who is making a living from this?
> 
> No obligation to answer the below questions, but it'd be great for us prawns who are a little unmotivated after yesterday's report.
> 
> ...


1) I just published my first novel HOOD this year in january-- It's looking like I'll make around 45k-55k this year. Worth noting I'm only 6 months into making a living; but my numbers just seem to keep going up 
I'm averaging over 30 books a day, I don't know exactly where the number is rn know. Over the past month it's been closer to 40. I also am Kindle select, and average around 10k pagereads a day.

2) I have a secondary income that used to be my primary; but I just don't do it much anymore. I was a professional poker player for about 8 years. Over time and millions of hands I just kind of lost the fire for it. No wife, no retirement, I'm 29 and largely have just lived without much regard for the future lol.

3) Post-Apocalyptic. I have one book, first of a series, and book2 is a WIP. Basically the first month my book started to take off and it hasn't stopped since.

4)No pen names. Like I said, I have the one book. I have an old MS I wrote when I was 18, it might be worth going back and fixing it up one day just for the $$ as a standalone.

5)It's really hard to say since I just started, really  I think the one thing is I would have gotten a mailing list setup ASAP. I actually still only have a mailing list from my blog and not from a mailchimp or w/e (god I really need to get on that.)
Other than that, I love my genre, I'm damn proud of the book. I'm pretty happy. Not much I'd change.

Evan


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## EvanPickering (Mar 8, 2016)

Annie B said:


> This thread pretty much summed up everything: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,219663.0.html and if that one doesn't, there are posts of mine in this one that will, probably: http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=218212.0 the TLDR version is: don't take any of his advice beyond "you must write" to heart. None of his marketing/selling books advice is any good. At all. I spent four years testing it back when it was even far easier than now to get visibility etc, and it's rubbish, sorry.
> 
> I had quit my job a year before I started self-publishing, but I was still playing poker for money at the time. But I considered myself basically a full time writer right from the start, even though it took a while to bring in money, heh.


Woah, Annie this is trippy. I was (still am on the side) poker pro. Though it's largely taken a back seat to the writing.
That thread is CRAZY. What the flump are these DWS and KKR people's names? And +1 for not being duped by people who pretend to be good writing trainers/editors/vanity publishers. I've never had any experiences with any of that, but DAMN that is some bullshit right there.


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## EvanPickering (Mar 8, 2016)

Just took the test, ENFP.

Yep, that sounds exactly right lol. Also, under common careers: "writer" NAILED IT

Man that test is interesting


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## BeMyBookBaby (Apr 18, 2016)

I am INFP which seems to mean that if I was on Game of Thrones I would not be having a good time...

http://www.humanmetrics.com/westeros/


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I am an ENTJ. Probably why my marketing plan is share chapters as I write them . . .  not much more extroverted than that.

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?

I reinvest a lot of my earnings back into my business, but that's starting to change. From July 2014 to October 2014 my books grossed $18,000. From November 2014 to OCtober 2015 it was $55,000 gross. And this year so far from November 2015 to today, over $32,000. In less than 2 years I've grossed over $100k. I am wide, but I was select first 6 months. My wide percentages (because people always ask) fluctuate to a low of 10% in release months (Amazon is far more volatile, the other vendors are less so, which is good and bad), to 30%. It averages around 18-20% at the end of the year add up. 


2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

My husband is Active Duty Navy so this is side income. Like someone up thread, we budget to his pay, but my business income after expenses are for savings, vacations, dental work, etc. 

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

I write Jane Austen historical fan fiction. I write standalone novellas, novella series, novel series, and 1 stand alone novel but it's now getting a sequel later this year or early next by reader demand. My genre is pretty consistent but I would say after Book 5 in my novella series and 9 titles all together is when I moved to a 5 figure month of earnings (also had a bookbub later that month) and now my releases (I've had 2 since then) give me between $8-12k for that month. I also started making more money when I raised my prices from $3.25 for novellas to $4.99 ($2.99 for some loss leaders) and my novels are $6.99 to $9.99 in price.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

I find I don't have the energy to be me, which is EAW, that's my real, legal name, and another person, but I have tried it. Because I know how the Amazon store works now through experience, pen name did not do badly at all and I could have written her books and made $30k a year. I just figured out it was spreading myself too thin.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

This is going to sound egotistical, but I would have tried less to fit in and been myself more. I have issues from when I was in school to where I get uncomfortable when people routinely point out that I'm different. I think differently. I write too fast. I do too much. I'm too good at being able to read one How-To guide and just pick up all of the new skills it's trying to teach. This led directly to me many times putting a limitation on my own success. It's not always a conscious thing, it's something I have to stop and make sure I"m not doing to myself. 

And I would stay away from people who are shady. I would pay more attention to when someone is oh so quick to want to work with me, butter me up, and stop and ask if I'm so small that they're doing this me this HUGE favor, then why do they seem so eager to have me in their corner? Certain authors "collect" people as loyalists to their brand, exerting a ton of energy into using the authors when it suits them, "their launch party, their promotion, their website" but suddenly are too successful and busy to help others. It's true as you do more, you are busier. But I try like heck to make sure I never become that kind of author who believe their own myth that they have to put out there for the public face. I work hard to make sure I MAKE time for everyone who asks, because so many people make time for me. But yeah, looking back, people I gave the benefit of the doubt to years ago because I stupidly though they were so much bigger than me so they must know right and my gut was wrong? Nope. My gut was totally right and those people just wanted to use me.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> This is going to sound egotistical, but I would have tried less to fit in and been myself more. I have issues from when I was in school to where I get uncomfortable when people routinely point out that I'm different. I think differently. I write too fast. I do too much. I'm too good at being able to read one How-To guide and just pick up all of the new skills it's trying to teach. This led directly to me many times putting a limitation on my own success. It's not always a conscious thing, it's something I have to stop and make sure I"m not doing to myself.


Oh I so relate to that. I changed schools a bit as a kid and every single time, when I told the teachers my reading level (we had this coloured card system), they'd accuse me of lying and make me start from the beginning again. Sheesh, I only wanted to get to the aqua cards! It really does have a huge impact, if your efforts have no rewards. Plus I went to small schools in country towns and really had to downplay my smarts so as not to get bullied. I never really understood, when we were given something to read, why everyone else took so long. I'd be finished and bored, reread it a few times and still be waiting. Not saying I'm exceptionally smart, I think a lot of my classmates actually had learning difficulties that weren't addressed.

Actually, that's a huge pro of self-publishing. You can work to your own schedule


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

INFP here.  My sister-in-law, who as a third career did mediation for church congregations and so became qualified to administer the MBTI, tested the whole family (with the very long original test, holy moly that sucker was long).  It helped me understand that hubby processed information totally differently and so wasn't misunderstanding me just to irritate me, LOL.  Probably saved me from beaning him a time or two. 

She also says people test differently in different environments, as the MBTI doesn't mean you don't have skills across types, you just use different skills in different places.  People tested at work would tend to place more emphasis on the skills they use there.  So, for example, she was an ENFP--but tested more towards the "J" side at work, where she was required to be more organized and goal oriented.

Betsy


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I have no idea what all the acronyms mean, but I do wonder at people's desire for labels.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I have no idea what all the acronyms mean, but I do wonder at people's desire for labels.


I'm not that into labels, myself, but it was an interesting exercise, and it did probably save my husband's life. 

On the other hand, we use labels all the time... Writer, author, publisher, moderator.... 

Betsy


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## M.D. Massey (Dec 3, 2013)

Crystal_ said:


> I'm an INTJ. Masterminds in the house
> 
> I only but into MBTI so much, but INTJs are quite inclined to self publish. We are independent to the point of detesting taking orders. We are creative and analytical, so we can balance art and business. We are quite serious about our investment in everything, including entertainment. INTJs have no need for the trivial and we prefer mastery over breadth.


INTJ here. Like INTP's, we tend to be all over the map in our interests, despite the depth of learning. I noticed several people commenting about multiple careers and interests in the threads, which was why it made me think about the MBTI.

Taking the Myers-Briggs test was a revelation for me. I'd been called a quitter and a flake all my life (even though I stuck with the same career for 20 years), and finding out that I was wired to move from interest to interest at will definitely provided me with a bit of validation.

You are spot on about balancing art and business. Incidentally, a lot of the best copywriters are supposedly INTJs.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

My husband and dad are both really into MBTI. I was never a huge fan, but I have to say that both their profiles describe the to a T. My dad is an ENTP and his mind works so fast. He is always jumping around to different topics. He can talk for hours. He is go go go. My husband is an ISTJ (sometimes he tests ISFJ), hard on the I and the S. He is very methodical, always weighing all his options and taking a while to make a decision. It used to frustrate me because I like to go with my guy so omg what is taking so long, but I learned to appreciate it. He adores directions/instructions which is weird to me. I hate being told what to do. I won't follow a recipient unless I have no clue. Reading about our profiles did help us realize some things about ourselves and about working together better as a unit.

MBTI is a bit like astrology for smart people but there's useful information to be gained from it if something strikes you as true. It helped me realize that it's okay to hate taking orders and to desperately want to work independently.

Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. You will always do better playing to your strengths.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

This thread used to be so interesting...


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## celadon (Sep 12, 2015)

I wish my post could make it interesting again, NeedWant! 

I'm bumping this thread up in the hopes that more 1%ers, or those who are the other 99%, will share their info with us. This has been a wonderful thread.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

To get back on task, I delegate almost everything I can delegate easily. I hire someone to do covers, dev editing, copy editing/proofing, and Facebook ads. Sometimes I hire someone to write my blurb (but sometimes it's more work hiring someone).

I still do my own formatting, line editing, social media, and mailing list. I also run my promos/make a promo schedule myself. With formatting, I like having the manuscript handy for quick changes. I wouldn't want a one week turnaround if I caught a typo or needed to add a link. I would certainly consider hiring someone to do my social media, but I don't spend much time on it anyway, and I mostly only do things I enjoy (posting updates about the next book, sharing cute pics, that kind of thing).


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## Douglas E Wright (Mar 11, 2011)

I also like this thread. It is inspirational. I am not anywhere near the top. I haven't sold anything in months. Now is the time to change my name and look closer at what I can combine dark fantasy and horror with to make it a winner. By the way I am INFP-T!


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

NeedWant said:


> This thread used to be so interesting...


Yes. As I said, desire for labels is puzzling.


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## Dominique Mondesir (Dec 15, 2015)

Thank you to those of you that posted your sucess. It only makes me want to work harder and smarter.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't come to KB too often anymore but did due to the crisis with both KDP account and affiliate shutdowns.

But I'll play (I only read page one and page six of this topic.)

I'm an ENFJ.

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?

Third year of low six figures. 26 books total, but my current money comes from about 6 of them. The ones I advertise.

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

My husband works. I outearn him.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

Romance. Both series and standalones. I saw the biggest change when I wrote cliffhanger books that took off. 30K months started happening.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

All my pen names earn 30K a year. They are not a secret and sometimes I put two of them on one book.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

Not waste a year on women's fiction but go straight to romance. Now I can afford to write a book that doesn't earn money, just for me. But not in the beginning.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?

Yes. Last 4 years have ranged from high fives to low sixes. Don't think I'll quite hit mid sixes this year, but so far this current one is shaping up nicely nevertheless.  16 books currently, all in Select at the moment (although I was wide up until about a year ago)

2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?

I still have a day job, at least until September.  After that, I'm cutting ties and sailing this ship into uncharted waters.

3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?

Urban Fantasy and Horror mostly, but I dabble a bit in others.  Series are my main income, but I enjoy writing the occasional standalone.  Biggest change came after I released book 3 of my series.  Was a real eye opening moment.

4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?

1 pen name, but it's pocket change at best.  The vast majority of my income is with my real name.

5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers. 

Wouldn't have made a fool of myself trying to self-edit.  Better branding right out the gate.  And I wouldn't have waited so long to dive into audiobooks.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Yes. As I said, desire for labels is puzzling.


So, when someone asks you what you do for a living, do you say "I eschew all labels?" 



NeedWant said:


> This thread used to be so interesting...


Well, apparently some found the MBTI discussion interesting. One doesn't have to be interested in every post. I do think that personality traits and how they affect one's work habits to be instructional in trying to see what makes successful people successful.

If you don't want to talk about MBTI, that's fine--make a post that advances the conversation you want to have--don't be dismissive of those discussing it, thanks.

Betsy


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Well, apparently some found the MBTI discussion interesting. One doesn't have to be interested in every post. I do think that personality traits and how they affect one's work habits to be instructional in trying to see what makes successful people successful.
> 
> If you don't want to talk about MBTI, that's fine--make a post that advances the conversation you want to have--don't be dismissive of those discussing it, thanks.
> 
> Betsy


I'm sure it's interesting for some people but that's not what this thread is about. It should probably become its own thread.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

NeedWant said:


> I'm sure it's interesting for some people but that's not what this thread is about. It should probably become its own thread.


As one aspect of the skills people use to be successful, I think it is appropriate and pertinent to the subject "Who is the 1%.". But it shouldn't be the sole discussion, so thanks to the people who have made contributions to the discussion. Again, you don't have to find every post interesting in a thread. Contribute to the discussion you want to have.

NeedWant, or anyone else--PM me if you want to continue discussing this point--so as to not further derail the conversation.

Betsy


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> So, when someone asks you what you do for a living, do you say "I eschew all labels?"
> 
> Well, apparently some found the MBTI discussion interesting. One doesn't have to be interested in every post. I do think that personality traits and how they affect one's work habits to be instructional in trying to see what makes successful people successful.
> 
> ...


I tell stories for a living.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I tell stories for a living.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I tell stories for a living.


I did a career day at one of my kids' schools last week where I started off with:

"I tell lies for a living. I'm a fiction writer."


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## leona5667 (Sep 13, 2014)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> "I tell lies for a living. I'm a fiction writer."


Hahaha! I said the same thing to one of my girlfriends! hilarious!


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2016)

I say I always tell the truth. Unless it's too dull.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?
> 
> Yes. Last 4 years have ranged from high fives to low sixes. Don't think I'll quite hit mid sixes this year, but so far this current one is shaping up nicely nevertheless. 16 books currently, all in Select at the moment (although I was wide up until about a year ago)
> 
> ...


I often read that things change after book three in a series is released. How long did you go between book two and three? Did you promote the first in series to get eyes on them or did it take off organically?
Thanks,
MJ


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Mjcaan said:


> I often read that things change after book three in a series is released. How long did you go between book two and three? Did you promote the first in series to get eyes on them or did it take off organically?
> Thanks,
> MJ


Book 2 and 3 were roughly 10 months apart. This was back in my marketing-ignorant days when promotion meant "occasionally post a link on twitter", so there wasn't too much going on there.

What I think had a much bigger affect was that I took a hard look at my categories right around the time I released book 3. Primarily I moved them out of the main humor category and into fantasy. Can't say for certain, but I think that was a major catalyst.


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## M.D. Massey (Dec 3, 2013)

NeedWant said:


> This thread used to be so interesting...


Lol, sorry about that.


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## A.E. Wasp (Jan 24, 2015)

EvanPickering said:


> Just took the test, ENFP.
> 
> Yep, that sounds exactly right lol. Also, under common careers: "writer" NAILED IT
> 
> Man that test is interesting


Nice! I was starting to think I was the only ENFP. 

Uh, and I'm way way way below the 1% for now. So I'm not going to answer the original questions. But, dang, Evan, I'm jealous of those one book numbers! Tell me your secrets!


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> ....
> 
> What I think had a much bigger affect was that I took a hard look at my categories right around the time I released book 3. Primarily I moved them out of the main humor category and into fantasy. Can't say for certain, but I think that was a major catalyst.


I would agree. Fantasy, SF, Contemporary Romance and so on - they all have a group of writers who are funny. I would think people going to humor/comedy first would be looking for non-fiction musings or satire. I mean, if I'm thinking I want to read about an assassin with a razor whip, I think thriller category so I know the tropes are there (even though the reader doesn't think in terms of tropes, just satisfying reads) then try to drill down. AND my alsobots and category pages will have books that are more like mine than if I were in humor alongside Stephen Colbert or Van Wilder Goes to College.


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## EvanPickering (Mar 8, 2016)

A.E. Wasp said:


> Nice! I was starting to think I was the only ENFP.
> 
> Uh, and I'm way way way below the 1% for now. So I'm not going to answer the original questions. But, dang, Evan, I'm jealous of those one book numbers! Tell me your secrets!


Oh man. I never want to sound like an asshole with my responses when people ask me that, but I'll give it a shot lol. These are the things I did/learned:
1. get a great editor and/or study the hell out of scene-sequel format.
2. Write the story you want to read, the story that excites you so much you can't type fast enough and don't give a **** about what you think people will think of it.
3. Don't market your book, market yourself; that is to say just be you, have fun and connect to people on social media who dig your genre or just random-ass people. Give a free copy to people when they show interest. Sprinkle in some shotgun-style hashtag marketing for good luck lol

I can't say this is some magic bullet. I just know this worked for me. Take it for what it is!

Also, booya ENFP! So many feels.

Evan


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Bumping this thread in the hopes of getting some more success stories added!


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## vkloss (Sep 22, 2014)

Ellie Keating said:


> 1) Do you make a living? What range? Eg six figures? Mid? Low? High five? Is this due to wide or select? And how many books?


Since June, and the release of book 4 plus the boxset (books 1-3) I'm comfortably making 5 figures/month, in pounds (sterling).



Ellie Keating said:


> 2) is this income your only income? i.e. Spouse with income? Regular pension? Savings until you make the midlist?


My wife is a graphics designer and she makes about 5k/month pounds. I'm also a freelance web developer, and though I'm trying to end that career, some clients are hard to get rid of!



Ellie Keating said:


> 3) what genre do you write in? Are you series or stand alones? How many books and when did you see the biggest change?


Middle Grade Fantasy. I have one series and just released the 5th book. The final one (book 6) is planned for early 2017. As mentioned above, book 4 plus boxset was the game changer. But contributing to that I run successful Facebook ads targeting book 1 ($0.99) and my boxset.



Ellie Keating said:


> 4) PEN NAMES. I feel like this is a big one because people are pointing out that the report only shows single authors, and therefore people with pen names are making a living but the report doesn't know that. So 'fess up, people! Are each of your pen names doing average ($30k/year?) but you have three of them so you're laughing all the way to the bank?


No, I write under my own name, nothing else.



Ellie Keating said:


> 5) If you had to start all over again, what would you do? Different genre? Lilianna? This is just a throwaway question, but I always love the answers.


Not a lot, really. I've made mistakes, but learning from them has improved me. When I released book 1, I didn't know about KBoards and all the great data I've learned here. But common sense told me to get a good, on-genre cover and write a tight, enticing blurb. Things took off more or less straight away, without any promotion. The main thing, I suppose, is that fact that I released too infrequently. It's been just over two years now, and I've only released 5 books. That's not enough. It's only the Facebook ads (and to a lesser extent, Amazon ads) that have given me the longevity to last over that period of time and not sink.


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