# Mikkelsen Twins / Publishing Life -- do not buy!



## Rachel Craft

So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.

Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?

_Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca

Edited to change the thread title again. Further alterations will result in thread lock._


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## Patty Jansen

I don't know about these particular ones but the model is this:

Get a book of about 25k written and narrated as cheaply as possible. Distribute via ACX. Give out the 200 codes you get. Times 1000

ETA. at this point in time I'd call it a dodgy "scheme" not quite a scam because ACX legit allows you to do this. Of course now the audio selection clutters up with short stories of dubious quality and Amazon will act once it's had enough emails from pissed-off listeners about it or something else that equates bad PR for Amazon (bat phone to David Gaughran).


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## Rachel Craft

Patty Jansen said:


> I don't know about these particular ones but the model is this:
> 
> Get a book of about 25k written and narrated as cheaply as possible. Distribute via ACX. Give out the 200 codes you get. Times 1000


I figured, but does anyone really need to pay their fee of 1000 bucks to learn something that is a short term hack at best? I thought there would be maybe more substance to it? Oh well. Lots of hucksters these days. I'll just keep a cautious eye with these internet marketers trying to milk publishing and move on.


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## Patty Jansen

Rachel Craft said:


> I figured, but does anyone really need to pay their fee of 1000 bucks to learn something that is a short term hack at best? I thought there would be maybe more substance to it? Oh well. Lots of hucksters these days. I'll just keep a cautious eye with these internet marketers trying to milk publishing and move on.


YUP

But sadly it's been thus since about 2013


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## MajesticMonkey

Rachel Craft said:


> I figured, but does anyone really need to pay their fee of 1000 bucks to learn something that is a short term hack at best? I thought there would be maybe more substance to it? Oh well. Lots of hucksters these days. I'll just keep a cautious eye with these internet marketers trying to milk publishing and move on.


Look them up on youtube and see what kind of doofuses these guys are. Hint: they got banned for publishing Google translated books and have a lengthy video on that. These guys probably make more of their courses than their publishing. I'd look for more suitable teachers.


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## Wayne Stinnett

If it smells like monkey dung, get out of the jungle. Trust your gut.


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## Llano

Reminds me of the people who ran get-rich-in-real-estate infomercials back in the 80s. Most of them got rich by selling courses, not real estate. Before that were full-page newspaper ads promoting various get-rich schemes. Nearly, probably all, of them were schemes to get rich by selling courses to other suckers.

In the late 80s, early 90s, get-rich-with-government-auctions was all the rage, again, selling courses, not actually buying at auctions and selling. I was in the auction business at the time and loved to see those suckers come in with their pockets stuffed with C-notes that ended up in my pocket.


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## unkownwriter

Oh, honey, they make their money from _ you_, and others like you, who pay them a thousand bucks for information that is either dodgy ethically, goes against TOS, or is outright illegal.

There is no easy money in writing. None. Everything requires time, effort, knowledge and money. ROI for most is negligible, if there's any at all. Write because you can't not write. Learn the publishing business, and marketing, or go for the traditional publishing contract (and you'll still need the marketing), but don't fall for that easy passive income nonsense.


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## jb1111

Another fellow KBoarder posted a couple links to their videos a few months back. They reminded me of Wayne's World without the air guitar. 

There are probably tons of people trying to make money telling you how to make a fast buck on the Zon. 

Some of them may be legit, I wouldn't really know personally as don't follow any of them. I'd rather trust what I read here and a couple other places where the actual authors hang out. Just my two cents on it.


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## clare30690

I was also curious, and finally, I thought I'd give it a try. Thinking about the worst-case I'll ask for a refund. But when I joined the course, and the FB community group I realized that this really works. All you need is to learn and show the dedication to apply what you learn. The results are not the same for everyone, I just started week 2 of the course now and tbh I learned a lot. Not sure if I'm gonna get the results like others in the group who's making 10k or more p.m. but it's worth the price and a legitimate one. They do live Q&A call biweekly, this made me satisfied that people are real and I can ask all my questions.


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## antcurious

clare30690 said:


> I was also curious, and finally, I thought I'd give it a try. Thinking about the worst-case I'll ask for a refund. But when I joined the course, and the FB community group I realized that this really works. All you need is to learn and show the dedication to apply what you learn. The results are not the same for everyone, I just started week 2 of the course now and tbh I learned a lot. Not sure if I'm gonna get the results like others in the group who's making 10k or more p.m. but it's worth the price and a legitimate one. They do live Q&A call biweekly, this made me satisfied that people are real and I can ask all my questions.


Absolutely nothing dodgy about this 1st post at all.


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## TaraCrescent

Not to mention that if the path to riches involves the money you make from giving away your audiobook codes, Amazon has closed that particular loophole.


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## C. Gold

And this is why ACX codes no longer give you money.


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## wearywanderer64

I remember we had a guy on here once asking for advice on how to sell his book. Guess what it was about.


-------------------------------------------MARKETING-----------------------------------------

You couldn't make it up.


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## David VanDyke

If it looks too good to be true, it is.

If it's a "secret" to making money, nobody will be selling it to you. They will use it themselves. 

If you ever wonder about any of these schemes, just put in the name of the product, course or proponent, and the word "scam," and see what comes up.


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## Drathaar

These two jokers have lost their Amazon accounts - KDP, Merch, and ACX. Before handing them your money, ask yourself why. Black hat tactics. Amazon always finds out. They've lost the support of all the reputable people in the business. They started out with a bang. I liked them. I even bought their course, something I'm not proud of now. Ashamed is a better word.

They have, or had, a video about getting review swaps. Not saying they were bad, saying you _had _to do them. Christian lost his KDP account for using software to translate books to Spanish. I pay a translater just to translate t-shirts! He used software for books. That's the kind of shady crap you'll learn from these two. Don't do it. A lot of people have lost their accounts because of these guys. Don't be one of them.

One of the things they taught was to find two top-selling authors in audiobook niches, switch their names and have co-authors (Jack Roberts and Julie Harrison become Jack Harrison and Julie Roberts.) If you could talk a narrator into using a pen name, you'd have one for the author and one for the narrator. They figured out author names are searchable keywords. It didn't matter what order they were in. This got people banned.

ACX banned all their accounts and really don't like them. If you ever talk to their customer service, never mention you took their course (if you did) them might just instaban you.


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## unkownwriter

antcurious said:


> Absolutely nothing dodgy about this 1st post at all.


Nothing at all. :O

LOL It's a typical tactic, to get someone to join up and post a glowing review of whatever is being sold. See it all the time.



David VanDyke said:


> If it looks too good to be true, it is.
> 
> If it's a "secret" to making money, nobody will be selling it to you. They will use it themselves.
> 
> If you ever wonder about any of these schemes, just put in the name of the product, course or proponent, and the word "scam," and see what comes up.


People would be a lot better off if they would follow David's advice. Sadly, so many get caught up in the thrill of something, in being told how easy it is to make money with no investment or effort at all.


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## 116273

_I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._

Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*

If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. 

Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.
Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income and results. I know people don't read the fine print, but it's there. Caveat emptor.

*As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate--a minority opinion here.*
It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts that do require deep training. *In one YT video, they even said it could take 6 months to a year to get results. Some make money far sooner, but that's pretty transparent to me. * What scam artist would say that? I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively. Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.

In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course, IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there doing everything they can to break even quickly. They don't want to be taken. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course. However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant. --All of which I don't pay attention to.

The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays. Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond the FB group moderator help.

So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money. And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*

What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it. If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it. However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find. People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s
--------
*Update: So what I'm getting from the replies are that:*
1. A first-time commenter here gets disrespect for being new.
2. No one here actually took the course.
3. Cynicism [ ] prevails.

Well, it is what it is! However, I'm here because I was bored on Reddit. Forgive me for not having 1M comments here.

Also, as someone who has been burnt by so-called online gurus ($1,000+), I found this course and FB group great. I guess some people won't believe me, but that's their prerogative. I know what transpired. But think for one second before the snide cynicism rears its ugly head again. What if 100 of the 100,000,000 courses out there are actually legit? Is everyone successful online educator a fraud? That's just dumb thinking.

People's criteria for evaluation has to be better. Yes, lots of scams out there, but not everyone is a crook. If there were a way I could whisk you into the FB group and have you talk to several of my chums about the kind of money they were making with this program, that might add more legitimacy. No one has a reason to lie or save face. People know if they are not successful, it's because they didn't do what the map laid out. It's kind of a lot and online course completion is at an all-time low. There are many reasons for not making money with a course you believed in. I was one of them with so many other courses I failed at. I just found this one different.

Beat up on these guys all you want. This doesn't affect me. I'm just telling it like is from someone who spent their hard-earned money on the program. You don't have to believe anyone here. The internet has minted more millionaires than any other platform, so something has to work online. And as far as people thinking their method is generic and broad, it's actually pretty specialized. The numerous tactics I've never hard of and I'm a veteran in publishing.

*But I get it, everything I say will be dismissed with an unsubstantiated pithy remark because that's what [some people] do. * They pontificate on things from afar having never actually experienced something for real. I can criticize a lot of things having never done it. I suggest people stay level-headed and skeptical of all online programs, but also study logic and facts. Criticize judiciously. Don't go off speculation and triple-hearsay. I'm okay with anyone ignoring that. My audiobooks will still be making me money despite what you think.

If you think they're scams, be a man and do something about it, build a better business model, get your own legion of backers. Something tells me that *if* you become successful legitimately, you'll get 20+ comments about how you're a scam too. Maybe you'll have a grateful student stand up for you because they enjoyed your course. But that won't matter, right? Everything is a scam.

_Edited for name calling and use of the T-word. - Becca_


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## Some Random Guy

westlake503 said:


> I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity?
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s


And another first post that doesn't smell like elephant dung at all. Nothing dodgy here, especially not the bolded parts and the screams of libel. How is it that you shills aren't smart enough to post something that doesn't scream bullcrap?


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## ShayneRutherford

Yep. Another first-time poster protesting that even though it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's definitely not a duck. I'm so surprised.


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## David VanDyke

Nah, that's not libel. Not in the USA anyway. If it were, the links below would be filled with libel. Lots of libel.

Do your own research to find out whether these things might be scams or not. Then make your own decision. Don't believe any single poster's opinion. Add up the weight of reports and decide for yourself where you want to send your hard-earned money.

Here's a few I found on page 1 of a search:

*https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/gh23d7/mikkelsen_twins_scam/*
*
https://www.scampulse.com/mikkelsen-twins-reviews
*
*https://scambusters.org/eviltwin.html*


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## jb1111

I'll repeat what I said earlier upthread: one is probably much better off getting advice from places like KB (and perhaps a few indie author reddits and other forums) where real indie authors hang out. Some of them -- including a couple in this thread -- are quite successful and can give a newbie better advice. Shortcuts can get you into trouble.


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## Patty Jansen

It's irrelevant. You can't do this anymore. If anything, ACX is now scamming back at these people (and us) by encouraging people to return audiobooks. I'm 100% sure that get-rich-quick books attract a particular crowd that just luuuuuurves returning books.


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## unkownwriter

ShayneRutherford said:


> Yep. Another first-time poster protesting that even though it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's definitely not a duck. I'm so surprised.


And months later, yet. Somebody's income from the courses must be dropping, time to call in the calvery to get the money flowing.


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## Doglover

clare30690 said:


> I was also curious, and finally, I thought I'd give it a try. Thinking about the worst-case I'll ask for a refund. But when I joined the course, and the FB community group I realized that this really works. All you need is to learn and show the dedication to apply what you learn. The results are not the same for everyone, I just started week 2 of the course now and tbh I learned a lot. Not sure if I'm gonna get the results like others in the group who's making 10k or more p.m. but it's worth the price and a legitimate one. They do live Q&A call biweekly, this made me satisfied that people are real and I can ask all my questions.


You sound familiar. Did you, by any chance, give similar testimonials to all those affiliate marketing gurus, you know the ones with the secret code to make six figures a month and have pictures of yachts, mansions and Lamborghinis all over their newsletters.

Still we need a laugh after this year and I do so enjoy these pathetic little attempts to legitimatise what is obviously a con with a great bit capital C.


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## nail file

westlake503 said:


> I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams.


Hahahahah....hahahAHAHAHAHAHAhahahah..hahaha...hahah...ha

Oh wait, you were serious.

Okay, then know this.

That's not how it works. Many would be too embarrassed to have dropped that amount of money on a course that could potentially damage their KDP account to say anything. Who likes to admit to the world that they got bilked out of their money?


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## DmGuay

antcurious said:


> Absolutely nothing dodgy about this 1st post at all.


My thought exactly. Nothing like a first-time poster singing the praises of a $1000 scam course! But I'm sure it's legit.


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## Doglover

DmGuay said:


> My thought exactly. Nothing like a first-time poster singing the praises of a $1000 scam course! But I'm sure it's legit.


The interesting thing is how they think we are going to fall for the: 'I took the scam course and it was worth every cent'?


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## Patrick1980

Versions of the Mikkelson Twins' routine have been around since Amazon first allowed POD self-published books back in the early 2000s. It also existed in the blogosphere, when the blogosphere was a thing. This is not new.

Here's how it works:

1. Offer generic advice about how the audience can "get rich quick" publishing---usually by repurposing generic content.
2. Sell expensive courses that offer generic advice and "shortcuts to success".
3. Tell students that you're making millions repurposing generic content yourself. (And they can do it, too!)

Since the early 2000s, there have literally been thousands of operators who have done this. The Mikkelsons are youthful and hip, and they're comfortable on camera. But there is nothing new about any of it.

Back around 2001, there were people teaching folks how to package nonfiction "reports" to sell on Amazon, by repurposing general information that was freely available on the web.

It isn't exactly a "scam". I'm sure the twins have been smart enough to tell students that their results may vary.

Before Amazon self-pubbing, there were "gurus" telling people how to make generic websites (content mills) for Adsense revenue.

I've watched the Mikkelsons' videos. Everything they do screams "content mill". Content mills can occasionally make a small amount of money. There is nothing illegal about any of it. But content mills mostly make money for the people who sell courses teaching others how to make content mills themselves.

I would bet anyone here dollars to donuts that the twins make most of their money (upwards of 90%) through their "students". That is always how it works with these things.



westlake503 said:


> I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity?
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s


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## DmGuay

westlake503 said:


> I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity?
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s


Yep. I'm sure the handful of first time ever posts here defending a $1000 course are totally legit!!!! 
Come on, people.


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## Bite the Dusty




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## unkownwriter

This sort of thing has been around forever. Before the Internet, before television, even. Ads in the backs of magazines promising tons of money stuffing envelopes. Ads saying you could make good money doing simple crafts. Back in the early 90s or so, it was drop shipping wonderful items you sold out of a catalog. Make a fortune from that one, for sure. Later on it was the buy and sell real estate deal. These days it's publishing books and watching the millions of passive income roll in. You can hire a ghostwriter for $5 to give you all the short pamphlets you need! The only trick to it is that the people selling the secret are the only ones who make money from it, because it's a con. Send me some money, I'll let you in on the secret, multiply by the thousands.


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## SND

There's a YouTube channel called Coffeezilla and the central premise of his channel is debunking and calling out the proliferation of scam artists, gurus and MLMers out there. Mikkelson Twins are ripe for a dedicated episode.


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## NikOK

I mean, yeah, anytime someone is going to sell you a secret, I feel like it's a good idea to steer clear.  This is the business model of someone who doesn't sell a product.  Like, Microsoft doesn't offer courses on how to make computers, they just sell you the computers.  If their advice worked so well, then they'd probably just be using it.


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## Trioxin 245

Years ago I watched a late nigh infomercial selling some course which I cannot remember. So I rang them and asked, does this course really work?

She assured me it did. There were thousands who have made a career and good money from it.

I then asked why is she answering phones for ten bucks an hour?

She hung up.


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## NikOK

Trioxin 245 said:


> Years ago I watched a late nigh infomercial selling some course which I cannot remember. So I rang them and asked, does this course really work?
> She assured me it did. There were thousands who have made a career and good money from it.
> 
> I then asked why is she answering phones for ten bucks an hour?
> 
> She hung up.


Bwhaha...yep!


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## 116273

Some Random Guy said:


> And another first post that doesn't smell like elephant dung at all. Nothing dodgy here, especially not the bolded parts and the screams of libel. How is it that you shills aren't smart enough to post something that doesn't scream bullcrap?


Brilliant ad hominem. That's what the illogical do. You should write cards.


----------



## 116273

unkownwriter said:


> And months later, yet. Somebody's income from the courses must be dropping, time to call in the calvery to get the money flowing.


*cavalry

New to kboards. Is that really so bad? Didn't know that disqualified me. I must be a hack!
Everyone has their two cents. A question was asked and I had bought the course to answer it. Assuming I'm not the course creator, doesn't that give me some sort of legitimacy?

Who else here has done that? And if they haven't, are their common words a pontification? Treat it like a court case. Where's the proof to back their claim?
I got income reports from deploying the program. How about you? I think these guys are nice. I could be dead-wrong, but I wasn't born yesterday.


----------



## 116273

jb1111 said:


> Another fellow KBoarder posted a couple links to their videos a few months back. They reminded me of Wayne's World without the air guitar.
> 
> There are probably tons of people trying to make money telling you how to make a fast buck on the Zon.
> 
> Some of them may be legit, I wouldn't really know personally as don't follow any of them. I'd rather trust what I read here and a couple other places where the actual authors hang out. Just my two cents on it.


Okay, that was kinda funny about the Wayne's World thing. I see that. However, the more interesting thing you said was trusting what you read here! This is where I got scammed into buying an eBook on publishing. It was utter rubbish.


----------



## c&#039;est la vie

westlake503, can you really blame the skeptical? You have no posting history aside from an overlong defense of obvious scammers and ridiculous accusations of libel. Do you really expect us to believe this is how a fellow author would introduce themselves to a segment of their own community?

Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

I suppose it's possible you were born yesterday, but my guess is it's you who think we were.


----------



## Some Random Guy

westlake503 said:


> Brilliant ad hominem. That's what the illogical do. You should write cards.


Son, when I ad hominem, it's about as logical as it gets. And I make more money writing books, something your sort should try. Oh - but I forget, those who can do, those who can't, offer shady classes on how to do something they can't. Yep, elephant dung all right. And that, my boy, is what the smart folks call logic.


----------



## NikOK

westlake503 said:


> *cavalry
> 
> New to kboards. Is that really so bad? Didn't know that disqualified me. I must be a hack!
> Everyone has their two cents. A question was asked and I had bought the course to answer it. Assuming I'm not the course creator, doesn't that give me some sort of legitimacy?
> 
> Who else here has done that? And if they haven't, are their common words a pontification? Treat it like a court case. Where's the proof to back their claim?
> I got income reports from deploying the program. How about you? I think these guys are nice. I could be dead-wrong, but I wasn't born yesterday.


If you are legitimate, then you really shouldn't take these things personally. Anybody would be glad that you took the course, got good info, and it helped your writing career. People posting skepticism of the course doesn't really affect you, the person who has benefited from them. You still maintain your benefit, and if anything you have an advantage over anyone who is skeptical.

If you are not legitimate, then by all means, continue to go out of your way to make this into an argument.


----------



## unkownwriter

> Assuming I'm not the course creator, doesn't that give me some sort of legitimacy?


Not really. One post wonders, who never show up to contribute to the forum outside of doing the "it's totally legit I swear!" thing have no legitimacy. None. Like it or not, that's how it works. And not just here.

And thanks for the proofreading. I normally don't leave such egregious errors, but you got lucky that day.


----------



## ShayneRutherford

westlake503 said:


> New to kboards. Is that really so bad? Didn't know that disqualified me. I must be a hack!
> Everyone has their two cents. A question was asked and I had bought the course to answer it.
> 
> Assuming I'm not the course creator, doesn't that give me some sort of legitimacy?
> 
> Who else here has done that? And if they haven't, are their common words a pontification? Treat it like a court case. Where's the proof to back their claim?
> I got income reports from deploying the program. How about you? I think these guys are nice. I could be dead-wrong, but I wasn't born yesterday.


There's nothing bad about being new to KBoards. Extolling the virtues of a company known to use dubious tactics? That's the bad part.

Even if you're not the course creator, who's to say you're not gaining something from trying to get people to sign up for it? We don't know you. You're anonymous. And you offered no proof of your claim. If you've got income reports, let's see them. I don't think anyone here is opposed to learning how to make money, as long as it's legit. But we've seen plenty of people drop in here and try to scam us, so we tend to be suspicious of brand new posters who swear that Suspicious Company #74 isn't a scam, but isn't willing to offer any proof.

On the other hand, the fact that the course focuses on Amazon audiobooks exclusively is a bit of a red flag. As is the fact that all of their books seem to be gone from the Amazon store entirely. If they were on the up and up, shouldn't they have books for sale on the platform their program uses exclusively? You would think that, for a company with such awesome info to teach, they should have their books up for sale on Amazon, and those books would be selling like hotcakes? So why aren't they?


----------



## jb1111

westlake503 said:


> Okay, that was kinda funny about the Wayne's World thing. I see that. However, the more interesting thing you said was trusting what you read here! This is where I got scammed into buying an eBook on publishing. It was utter rubbish.


Point taken. It's always caveat emptor.

I was referring more to the breadth of advice one can get here on KB over a period of time. I've only been here maybe two to three years... Seen a lot of advice given by authors who seem to have books that sell.


----------



## Doglover

westlake503 said:


> This is where I got scammed into buying an eBook on publishing. It was utter rubbish.


 Did that ebook cost you $1000? And why didn't you send it back for a refund?


----------



## Doglover

When someone is trying to sell a course to authors about marketing, the first question to ask is: Is this person an author? The second question is to look them up on Amazon and elsewhere to see how well their books are doing and what they are writing, besides how to sell courses and how to market. If that evidence is missing, the course is likely crap.


----------



## Trioxin 245

Ive always thought that by the time someone is ready to share their brilliant secret ( in the form of a course/book) the time for it to be effective has already passed.

Here is another way to look at it. The courses that speak about their students making 25k a month, why are they willing to sell it to you for just a few hundred bucks? Why are they not hiring a team, paying them 20 an hour even 30, to do the work and make so much more for themselves?

But you can learn from them, watch how they promote, get your heart racing and your mind dreaming. They are very good at that and you can use some of the skills for your own marketing.


----------



## Rimmo

It's subtle - the Mikkelsen Twins are not lying about anything, because they don't need to lie.

Their goal is to make passive income from the internet. That's it. That's their only goal. They're not actually 'writers' at all, they just see Amazon / KDP as a useful route to a steady passive income. They're probably actually fairly good at achieving that.

Their course, I assume, teaches exactly that too - What is the fastest way to make money out of the Amazon system. The thing is, that's a very different goal to why most of us come to kboards. It may even be directly opposed to it, if they encourage flooding the market with too much crap.

Some of their ideas I found on marketing were interesting, but once I realized their approach to writing was basically to be as shallow as possible, it really seemed not worth my time.



Trioxin 245 said:


> Ive always thought that by the time someone is ready to share their brilliant secret ( in the form of a course/book) the time for it to be effective has already passed.


Yeah that's a really good point. It's always too late, by the time its being advertised to the whole world.


----------



## unkownwriter

> Amazon / KDP as a useful route to a steady passive income


Ask any real writer, putting out good books and making money, how true that "passive income" crap is. They'll tell you it's a big fat lie. Look at posts here or anywhere about marketing, how much harder it is, how much more it costs, how much effort you have to put into keeping up with what works and what doesn't. And how you have to keep publishing, keep working the back list. For anyone other than the SEO folks, who see KDP as a cash cow and have no real interest in writing.


----------



## 116273

Doglover said:


> You sound familiar. Did you, by any chance, give similar testimonials to all those affiliate marketing gurus, you know the ones with the secret code to make six figures a month and have pictures of yachts, mansions and Lamborghinis all over their newsletters.
> 
> Still we need a laugh after this year and I do so enjoy these pathetic little attempts to legitimatise what is obviously a con with a great bit capital C.


Are you talking about that IM Rhys guy? Or that other guy that reviews all these courses and then always recommends his small business leads system? Yeah, I've seen that too. I've only given one testimonial and I don't think that person even owns a car! So no, I'm not in that space. However, I understand where you're coming from. 99.9% of people scam. Let me know when you find the Secret Code!


----------



## 116273

jb1111 said:


> I'll repeat what I said earlier upthread: one is probably much better off getting advice from places like KB (and perhaps a few indie author reddits and other forums) where real indie authors hang out. Some of them -- including a couple in this thread -- are quite successful and can give a newbie better advice. Shortcuts can get you into trouble.


I see. So any newbie is illegitimate. Great culture! And believe non-experts here more than others giving free tutorials over YouTube that try to sell a course that may or may not work. Got it! I guess I'm that ONE person on the planet who took a paid course and made more than my money back. Life is so great.


----------



## 116273

Drathaar said:


> These two jokers have lost their Amazon accounts - KDP, Merch, and ACX. Before handing them your money, ask yourself why. Black hat tactics. Amazon always finds out. They've lost the support of all the reputable people in the business. They started out with a bang. I liked them. I even bought their course, something I'm not proud of now. Ashamed is a better word.
> 
> They have, or had, a video about getting review swaps. Not saying they were bad, saying you _had _to do them. Christian lost his KDP account for using software to translate books to Spanish. I pay a translater just to translate t-shirts! He used software for books. That's the kind of shady crap you'll learn from these two. Don't do it. A lot of people have lost their accounts because of these guys. Don't be one of them.
> 
> One of the things they taught was to find two top-selling authors in audiobook niches, switch their names and have co-authors (Jack Roberts and Julie Harrison become Jack Harrison and Julie Roberts.) If you could talk a narrator into using a pen name, you'd have one for the author and one for the narrator. They figured out author names are searchable keywords. It didn't matter what order they were in. This got people banned.
> 
> ACX banned all their accounts and really don't like them. If you ever talk to their customer service, never mention you took their course (if you did) them might just instaban you.


Actually, that's one of the first things they admit in the course. How to get banned and how to avoid it. They admitted to that and worse. They were black hat, but they had to do it right to stay in business. Isn't that valuable advice? How to not get your account closed? Perception is reality. I do not think these guys are publishing gods, but exercise reason here. These are the facts.


----------



## 116273

David VanDyke said:


> Nah, that's not libel. Not in the USA anyway. If it were, the links below would be filled with libel. Lots of libel.
> 
> Do your own research to find out whether these things might be scams or not. Then make your own decision. Don't believe any single poster's opinion. Add up the weight of reports and decide for yourself where you want to send your hard-earned money.
> 
> Here's a few I found on page 1 of a search:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/gh23d7/mikkelsen_twins_scam/
> 
> https://www.scampulse.com/mikkelsen-twins-reviews
> 
> https://scambusters.org/eviltwin.html


Clearly you don't understand law. It IS libelous if you can prove it. I think they can it if falls outside of the first amendment and if it causes damages [sales, character, etc]. Pretty basic, really. But who cares, I really don't! I'm just not corrected here by your speculation on American jurisprudence. https://www.freeadvice.com/legal/can-i-sue-someone-who-says-or-writes-something-defamatory-about-me/. Interesting articles though. They fall into the first amendment clause. However, the twins could follow up as well as the FTC. If there is a legitimate complaint the consumer protection agency verifies, 100% of their stuff would have to come down. They're still up. In the end, neither party wants to follow through. It's a headache for both sides. It's sad how people will get scammed, but entrepreneurs have rights too. If you ever sold a book, you have rights too.


----------



## Doglover

westlake503 said:


> I see. So any newbie is illegitimate. Great culture! And believe non-experts here more than others giving free tutorials over YouTube that try to sell a course that may or may not work. Got it! I guess I'm that ONE person on the planet who took a paid course and made more than my money back. Life is so great.


Any newbie who joins only to legitimise a service that is dubious at best, is suspicious. Surely you can see that. Newbies who come to discuss their writing, publishing, or simple discuss writing with other writers, do not come under suspicion. Now if someone with say, 1000 posts, came along and declared that these scammers are legit, we might listen.


----------



## Doglover

westlake503 said:


> Actually, that's one of the first things they admit in the course. How to get banned and how to avoid it. They admitted to that and worse. They were black hat, but they had to do it right to stay in business. Isn't that valuable advice? How to not get your account closed? Perception is reality. I do not think these guys are publishing gods, but exercise reason here. These are the facts.


Genuine writers and publishers don't need to be told how not to get banned; we already know. Are you saying it's a good investment to pay nearly $1000 for a course on common sense? Do I get a degree in the bleeding obvious?


----------



## Doglover

westlake503 said:


> Clearly you don't understand law. It IS libelous if you can prove it. I think they can it if falls outside of the first amendment and if it causes damages [sales, character, etc]. Pretty basic, really. But who cares, I really don't! I'm just not corrected here by your speculation on American jurisprudence. https://www.freeadvice.com/legal/can-i-sue-someone-who-says-or-writes-something-defamatory-about-me/. Interesting articles though. They fall into the first amendment clause. However, the twins could follow up as well as the FTC. If there is a legitimate complaint the consumer protection agency verifies, 100% of their stuff would have to come down. They're still up. In the end, neither party wants to follow through. It's a headache for both sides. It's sad how people will get scammed, but entrepreneurs have rights too. If you ever sold a book, you have rights too.


I'm English - we don't have any amendments, first, second or otherwise. The law here is it is only libellous if it isn't true. Added to that, I don't think the law has caught up with the internet; libel needs to be written on paper. I could be wrong. It does happen.


----------



## lafnian1990

westlake503 said:


> Clearly you don't understand law. It IS libelous if you can prove it. I think they can it if falls outside of the first amendment and if it causes damages [sales, character, etc]. Pretty basic, really. But who cares, I really don't! I'm just not corrected here by your speculation on American jurisprudence. https://www.freeadvice.com/legal/can-i-sue-someone-who-says-or-writes-something-defamatory-about-me/. Interesting articles though. They fall into the first amendment clause. However, the twins could follow up as well as the FTC. If there is a legitimate complaint the consumer protection agency verifies, 100% of their stuff would have to come down. They're still up. In the end, neither party wants to follow through. It's a headache for both sides. It's sad how people will get scammed, but entrepreneurs have rights too. If you ever sold a book, you have rights too.


You have forgotten about business ethics which secretly influences legal aspects. It seems to me that a decent person should not make explicit accents on the legal side.


----------



## jb1111

westlake503 said:


> I see. So any newbie is illegitimate. Great culture! And believe non-experts here more than others giving free tutorials over YouTube that try to sell a course that may or may not work. Got it! I guess I'm that ONE person on the planet who took a paid course and made more than my money back. Life is so great.


No, what I said was caveat emptor, especially for newbies.

Newbies aren't illegitimate. They're newbies. They don't have the experience of people who have been in the game for years, some of whom have -- through trial and error -- become successful, some even wildly successful. Some of them here, from what I can ascertain, are indeed experts. An expert is someone who is successful at a trade or craft, and can live off of it. Some of the posters here match that definition.

You claim to have made more than your investment back by taking a YT course. Good on ya. I won't knock your right to state that here, and tell others that it worked for you, and I haven't knocked you for it.

There are KB'ers who swear by some marketing seminars, too. They say it works for them.

I just think any newbie needs to be careful with whatever advice they receive.

As for the Mikkelsen twins, yeah, they reminded me of Wayne's World without the Van Halen playing in the background. But I will give props to the one guy admitting he screwed up and lost his account permanently. I'll grant him that much. I saw that video. He was at least straightforward about what he did.


----------



## unkownwriter

> They were black hat, but they had to do it right to stay in business. Isn't that valuable advice? How to not get your account closed?


They had to find a way to get around rules, you mean? To cheat a system, to break rules, not because they're harmful, but because the rule breaker wants an easier, quicker, better way to steal money?

*Amazon already gives us valuable advice to avoid getting our accounts terminated.* No workarounds are needed. No thousand dollar courses to learn how to game the system. No easy, sneaky way to get ahead of anyone else. There are thousands of people who follow the rules and make very good money. Some make winning lottery ticket money. They don't have to worry about getting caught at something they shouldn't be doing. They don't have to find a way to break any rules.

Anyone who thinks finding ways around the rules aren't in this for the writing, they're looking for easy money, and they don't care that every time they get caught, Amazon amps up the rules and makes it harder and harder for honest people to find their dream as a writer. We've seen it with KU, we've seen it with simple things like tags, or being able to add images to our sales page, or every other little thing that made it better for those of us willing to follow the terms of the contract we signed.

But you keep on, dig that hole deeper, keep finding excuses for the cheaters. I for one don't care about you, or anyone like you. When you get caught, don't come looking for sympathy here, because you won't get it. Except maybe from that other person who signs up just to support something that's wrong. That will be your solace.


----------



## 116273

Some Random Guy said:


> Son, when I ad hominem, it's about as logical as it gets. And I make more money writing books, something your sort should try. Oh - but I forget, those who can do, those who can't, offer shady classes on how to do something they can't. Yep, elephant dung all right. And that, my boy, is what the smart folks call logic.


I don't believe YOU as much as you don't believe my review. So be it. But study logic. You're still throwing out Ad Hominem, "boy/son"! Fact. I hope people see that bullying and name-calling is wrong and illogical. Maybe they will, if "smart folk" indeed can process. Civility IS a virtue. If you Don't have an argument, you cut people down and call them names. If the proof and science is there, the real smarties will see that. I should believe your success no more than I should believe the M's success. Weird, huh?


----------



## 116273

NikOK said:


> If you are legitimate, then you really shouldn't take these things personally. Anybody would be glad that you took the course, got good info, and it helped your writing career. People posting skepticism of the course doesn't really affect you, the person who has benefited from them. You still maintain your benefit, and if anything you have an advantage over anyone who is skeptical.
> 
> If you are not legitimate, then by all means, continue to go out of your way to make this into an argument.


I see where you're coming from, but the comments here do affect someone personally if they're personal! Hello! Isn't that the REAL argument? But keep telling people how they should feel. Brilliant.

Anyhow, I've come to the conclusion that 100% of online courses are scams. You're not allowed to pat someone on the back for making a course that by-golly, worked and made you some money. This is all a simulation.


----------



## ShayneRutherford

westlake503 said:


> I see where you're coming from, but the comments here do affect someone personally if they're personal! Hello! Isn't that the REAL argument? But keep telling people how they should feel. Brilliant.
> 
> Anyhow, I've come to the conclusion that 100% of online courses are scams. You're not allowed to pat someone on the back for making a course that by-golly, worked and made you some money. This is all a simulation.


If you did get good, actionable information out of the course you should be glad that no one else wants to take it, because as soon as a bunch of people start to implement the advice from a course, its effectiveness usually drops by quite a lot.

Also, you're brand new to the forum, and you're flogging a course that's been created by people who are known scammers. Can you not see why the people here might have some doubts? If you'd actually come here to participate in more of the discussions instead of just this one thread, people might be more convinced that you're coming from a good place.


----------



## MissM

westlake503 said:


> _I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._
> 
> Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income and results. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there. Caveat emptor.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate--a minority opinion here.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. *In one YT video, they even said it could take 6 months to a year to get results. Some make money far sooner, but that's pretty transparent to me. * What scam artist would say that? I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. They don't want to be taken. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant. --All of which I don't pay attention to.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s
> --------
> *Update: So what I'm getting from the replies are that:*
> 1. A first-time commenter here gets disrespect for being new.
> 2. No one here actually took the course.
> 3. Cynicism and trolling prevails.
> 
> Well, it is what it is! However, I'm here because I was bored on Reddit. Forgive me for not having 1M comments here.
> Also, as someone who has been burnt by so-called online gurus ($1,000+), I found this course and FB group great.
> I guess some people won't believe me, but that's their prerogative. I know what transpired. But think for one second before the snide cynicism rears its ugly head again. What if 100 of the 100,000,000 courses out there are actually legit? Is everyone successful online educator a fraud? That's just dumb thinking.
> 
> People's criteria for evaluation has to be better. Yes, lots of scams out there, but not everyone is a crook. If there were a way I could whisk you into the FB group and have you talk to several of my chums about the kind of money they were making with this program, that might add more legitimacy. No one has a reason to lie or save face. People know if they are not successful, it's because they didn't do what the map laid out. It's kind of a lot and online course completion is at an all-time low. There are many reasons for not making money with a course you believed in. I was one of them with so many other courses I failed at. I just found this one different.
> 
> Beat up on these guys all you want. This doesn't affect me. I'm just telling it like is from someone who spent their hard-earned money on the program. You don't have to believe anyone here. The internet has minted more millionaires than any other platform, so something has to work online. And as far as people thinking their method is generic and broad, it's actually pretty specialized. The numerous tactics I've never hard of and I'm a veteran in publishing.
> 
> *But I get it, everything I say will be dismissed with an unsubstantiated pithy remark because that's what the craven do. * They pontificate on things from afar having never actually experienced something for real. I can criticize a lot of things having never done it. I suggest people stay level-headed and skeptical of all online programs, but also study logic and facts. Criticize judiciously. Don't go off speculation and triple-hearsay. I'm okay with anyone ignoring that. My audiobooks will still be making me money despite what you think.
> 
> If you think they're scams, be a man and do something about it, build a better business model, get your own legion of backers. Something tells me that *if* you become successful legitimately, you'll get 20+ comments about how you're a scam too. Maybe you'll have a grateful student stand up for you because they enjoyed your course. But that won't matter, right? Everything is a scam.


I was going to comment but you have summed up all of my thoughts perfectly.


----------



## David VanDyke

The best thing about this thread is, the Unk scam defender guy keeps it going--which helps spread the word to real authors not to take the course, and makes it more and more clear why not. Thanks, Unk! Kind of like those convicted criminals who keep protesting despite overwhelming evidence. Or even politicians. "I did not have intercourse with that black hat tactic..."


----------



## ShayneRutherford

MissM said:


> I was going to comment but you have summed up all of my thoughts perfectly.


Oh wow! Another person with a single post, coming to argue in favor of a class put out by people who've admitted to using black hat tactics.


----------



## David VanDyke

Yep. Because all new author-posters just happen to jump into a thread like this with breathless praise of questionable services. 

Not "Hi I'm new to KBoards and I just wrote a book and I was wondering about this whole indie thing..." which is what legit first post usually looks like.


----------



## Marseille France or Bust

antcurious said:


> Absolutely nothing dodgy about this 1st post at all.


Hummm.


----------



## Doglover

It seems that since the forum changed, I no longer get notifications of threads I was following before it changed. I had no idea this one was still going. It reminds me of a certain person who kept insisting he had won, despite all evidence to the contrary.

@New posters who have jumped in just to defend what we all know is BS - Don't you realise yet how stupid you all sound?


----------



## Casobi88

clare30690 said:


> I was also curious, and finally, I thought I'd give it a try. Thinking about the worst-case I'll ask for a refund. But when I joined the course, and the FB community group I realized that this really works. All you need is to learn and show the dedication to apply what you learn. The results are not the same for everyone, I just started week 2 of the course now and tbh I learned a lot. Not sure if I'm gonna get the results like others in the group who's making 10k or more p.m. but it's worth the price and a legitimate one. They do live Q&A call biweekly, this made me satisfied that people are real and I can ask all my questions.



This def seems like them. This comment does not scream REAL in any way shape or form, just my opinion.


----------



## Mama LaBreeze

I would love to hear more from you about this, as 'm very interested in the course. IDK where to private message you. I'd love to see some real income reports that show you havw made money doing this. Thank you for your time.



westlake503 said:


> _I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._
> 
> Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income and results. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there. Caveat emptor.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate--a minority opinion here.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. *In one YT video, they even said it could take 6 months to a year to get results. Some make money far sooner, but that's pretty transparent to me. * What scam artist would say that? I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. They don't want to be taken. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant. --All of which I don't pay attention to.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s
> --------
> *Update: So what I'm getting from the replies are that:*
> 1. A first-time commenter here gets disrespect for being new.
> 2. No one here actually took the course.
> 3. Cynicism and trolling prevails.
> 
> Well, it is what it is! However, I'm here because I was bored on Reddit. Forgive me for not having 1M comments here.
> Also, as someone who has been burnt by so-called online gurus ($1,000+), I found this course and FB group great.
> I guess some people won't believe me, but that's their prerogative. I know what transpired. But think for one second before the snide cynicism rears its ugly head again. What if 100 of the 100,000,000 courses out there are actually legit? Is everyone successful online educator a fraud? That's just dumb thinking.
> 
> People's criteria for evaluation has to be better. Yes, lots of scams out there, but not everyone is a crook. If there were a way I could whisk you into the FB group and have you talk to several of my chums about the kind of money they were making with this program, that might add more legitimacy. No one has a reason to lie or save face. People know if they are not successful, it's because they didn't do what the map laid out. It's kind of a lot and online course completion is at an all-time low. There are many reasons for not making money with a course you believed in. I was one of them with so many other courses I failed at. I just found this one different.
> 
> Beat up on these guys all you want. This doesn't affect me. I'm just telling it like is from someone who spent their hard-earned money on the program. You don't have to believe anyone here. The internet has minted more millionaires than any other platform, so something has to work online. And as far as people thinking their method is generic and broad, it's actually pretty specialized. The numerous tactics I've never hard of and I'm a veteran in publishing.
> 
> *But I get it, everything I say will be dismissed with an unsubstantiated pithy remark because that's what the craven do. * They pontificate on things from afar having never actually experienced something for real. I can criticize a lot of things having never done it. I suggest people stay level-headed and skeptical of all online programs, but also study logic and facts. Criticize judiciously. Don't go off speculation and triple-hearsay. I'm okay with anyone ignoring that. My audiobooks will still be making me money despite what you think.
> 
> If you think they're scams, be a man and do something about it, build a better business model, get your own legion of backers. Something tells me that *if* you become successful legitimately, you'll get 20+ comments about how you're a scam too. Maybe you'll have a grateful student stand up for you because they enjoyed your course. But that won't matter, right? Everything is a scam.


----------



## Doglover

Mama LaBreeze said:


> I would love to hear more from you about this, as 'm very interested in the course. IDK where to private message you. I'd love to see some real income reports that show you havw made money doing this. Thank you for your time.


Another one.


----------



## David VanDyke

Mama LaBreeze said:


> I would love to hear more from you about this, as 'm very interested in the course. IDK where to private message you. I'd love to see some real income reports that show you havw made money doing this. Thank you for your time.


Hahahah thank you for continuing to prove us right. Another first-timer who seems like a shill. 

Keep the warning alive. Writer beware!


----------



## Narratoration

Doglover said:


> You sound familiar. Did you, by any chance, give similar testimonials to all those affiliate marketing gurus, you know the ones with the secret code to make six figures a month and have pictures of yachts, mansions and Lamborghinis all over their newsletters.
> 
> Still we need a laugh after this year and I do so enjoy these pathetic little attempts to legitimatise what is obviously a con with a great bit capital C.


I'm a narrator for audiobooks through Audible / ACX , I have narrated and mastered the audio of almost 250 books thus far and I can say with very firm assurance there is very LITTLE chance of making anywhere near what these Mikkelsen Twins suggest you can, a lot of the books I've done have been done on a "royalty share" basis, which means you split the each sale with the rights holder 50/50.... unless you happen to own all the rights to the book, in which case you give Audible 50%........ but typically when you split the money with the rights holder it is 20% for you, 20% for the rights holder and 60% for Audible!.... and I have to say, landing a good selling book is not easy, it really is somewhat of a crap-shoot, which is why I now prefer to narrate for a PFH (per finished hour) rate instead of narrating for a royalty share deal, it almost always winds up being the better deal!


----------



## Narratoration

Rachel Craft said:


> So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.
> 
> Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?
> 
> _Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


I'm a narrator for audiobooks through Audible / ACX , I have narrated and mastered the audio of almost 250 books thus far and I can say with very firm assurance there is very LITTLE chance of making anywhere near what these Mikkelsen Twins suggest you can, a lot of the books I've done have been done on a "royalty share" basis, which means you split the each sale with the rights holder 50/50.... unless you happen to own all the rights to the book, in which case you give Audible 50%........ but typically when you split the money with the rights holder it is 20% for you, 20% for the rights holder and 60% for Audible!.... and I have to say, landing a good selling book is not easy, it really is somewhat of a crap-shoot, which is why I now prefer to narrate for a PFH (per finished hour) rate instead of narrating for a royalty share deal, it almost always winds up being the better deal!


----------



## Doglover

Narratoration said:


> I'm a narrator for audiobooks through Audible / ACX , I have narrated and mastered the audio of almost 250 books thus far and I can say with very firm assurance there is very LITTLE chance of making anywhere near what these Mikkelsen Twins suggest you can, a lot of the books I've done have been done on a "royalty share" basis, which means you split the each sale with the rights holder 50/50.... unless you happen to own all the rights to the book, in which case you give Audible 50%........ but typically when you split the money with the rights holder it is 20% for you, 20% for the rights holder and 60% for Audible!.... and I have to say, landing a good selling book is not easy, it really is somewhat of a crap-shoot, which is why I now prefer to narrate for a PFH (per finished hour) rate instead of narrating for a royalty share deal, it almost always winds up being the better deal!


Why have you repeated the same post twice, quoting myself and someone else to do it? You have only those two posts and seem to be trying to push your own business. That is not what this forum is for.


----------



## Narratoration

Doglover said:


> Why have you repeated the same post twice, quoting myself and someone else to do it? You have only those two posts and seem to be trying to push your own business. That is not what this forum is for.


I don't have a business... not only that, but there is literally {as far as I can tell} no way for anyone to contact me through ACX to get their book narrated using the information from here, I really don't need the added work as it is anyway I can assure you, I have as much as I can handle, I was just new on the system and wasn't sure I posted the first message correctly... simple as that.


----------



## smnava19

116273 said:


> _I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._
> 
> Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income and results. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there. Caveat emptor.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate--a minority opinion here.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. *In one YT video, they even said it could take 6 months to a year to get results. Some make money far sooner, but that's pretty transparent to me. * What scam artist would say that? I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. They don't want to be taken. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant. --All of which I don't pay attention to.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s
> --------
> *Update: So what I'm getting from the replies are that:*
> 1. A first-time commenter here gets disrespect for being new.
> 2. No one here actually took the course.
> 3. Cynicism and trolling prevails.
> 
> Well, it is what it is! However, I'm here because I was bored on Reddit. Forgive me for not having 1M comments here.
> Also, as someone who has been burnt by so-called online gurus ($1,000+), I found this course and FB group great.
> I guess some people won't believe me, but that's their prerogative. I know what transpired. But think for one second before the snide cynicism rears its ugly head again. What if 100 of the 100,000,000 courses out there are actually legit? Is everyone successful online educator a fraud? That's just dumb thinking.
> 
> People's criteria for evaluation has to be better. Yes, lots of scams out there, but not everyone is a crook. If there were a way I could whisk you into the FB group and have you talk to several of my chums about the kind of money they were making with this program, that might add more legitimacy. No one has a reason to lie or save face. People know if they are not successful, it's because they didn't do what the map laid out. It's kind of a lot and online course completion is at an all-time low. There are many reasons for not making money with a course you believed in. I was one of them with so many other courses I failed at. I just found this one different.
> 
> Beat up on these guys all you want. This doesn't affect me. I'm just telling it like is from someone who spent their hard-earned money on the program. You don't have to believe anyone here. The internet has minted more millionaires than any other platform, so something has to work online. And as far as people thinking their method is generic and broad, it's actually pretty specialized. The numerous tactics I've never hard of and I'm a veteran in publishing.
> 
> *But I get it, everything I say will be dismissed with an unsubstantiated pithy remark because that's what the craven do. * They pontificate on things from afar having never actually experienced something for real. I can criticize a lot of things having never done it. I suggest people stay level-headed and skeptical of all online programs, but also study logic and facts. Criticize judiciously. Don't go off speculation and triple-hearsay. I'm okay with anyone ignoring that. My audiobooks will still be making me money despite what you think.
> 
> If you think they're scams, be a man and do something about it, build a better business model, get your own legion of backers. Something tells me that *if* you become successful legitimately, you'll get 20+ comments about how you're a scam too. Maybe you'll have a grateful student stand up for you because they enjoyed your course. But that won't matter, right? Everything is a scam.



Thank you for taking the time to write this. I appreciate you and your willingness to speak. I was looking for something like this to help me decide on my next move. Your time is much appreciated, take care and thank you again!


----------



## Some Random Guy

I see the multiverse is spitting out sockpuppets at an ever increasing rate. Maybe I'll eventually find the socks my dryer sent off into the multiverse so that something positive comes from all this BS.


----------



## ImaWriter

Some Random Guy said:


> I see the multiverse is spitting out sockpuppets at an ever increasing rate. Maybe I'll eventually find the socks my dryer sent off into the multiverse so that something positive comes from all this BS.


Apparently the core group here is smart enough to have a firm grasp on language, communication, and the written word since we're, you know, writers. But on the other hand, the core here are also so completely lacking at language, communication, and the written word, we're too stupid to see what's happening when a sock puppet posts. 

But as David pointed out, the sock puppets are too stupid to realize they are keeping this thread alive and in the first few spots in the SERPS (search engine results pages), helping to drive more nails in their own coffin. 

Keep up the good work, sock puppets!!


----------



## David VanDyke

smnava19 said:


> Thank you for taking the time to write this. I appreciate you and your willingness to speak. I was looking for something like this to help me decide on my next move. Your time is much appreciated, take care and thank you again!


Hahahaha here's another one proving us right. 1 post, sock puppet mouthing black hatter praises.

Thanks again for keeping the warnings alive. 

Writer beware!


----------



## [email protected]

116273 said:


> _I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._
> 
> Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income and results. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there. Caveat emptor.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate--a minority opinion here.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. *In one YT video, they even said it could take 6 months to a year to get results. Some make money far sooner, but that's pretty transparent to me. * What scam artist would say that? I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. They don't want to be taken. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant. --All of which I don't pay attention to.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s
> --------
> *Update: So what I'm getting from the replies are that:*
> 1. A first-time commenter here gets disrespect for being new.
> 2. No one here actually took the course.
> 3. Cynicism and trolling prevails.
> 
> Well, it is what it is! However, I'm here because I was bored on Reddit. Forgive me for not having 1M comments here.
> Also, as someone who has been burnt by so-called online gurus ($1,000+), I found this course and FB group great.
> I guess some people won't believe me, but that's their prerogative. I know what transpired. But think for one second before the snide cynicism rears its ugly head again. What if 100 of the 100,000,000 courses out there are actually legit? Is everyone successful online educator a fraud? That's just dumb thinking.
> 
> People's criteria for evaluation has to be better. Yes, lots of scams out there, but not everyone is a crook. If there were a way I could whisk you into the FB group and have you talk to several of my chums about the kind of money they were making with this program, that might add more legitimacy. No one has a reason to lie or save face. People know if they are not successful, it's because they didn't do what the map laid out. It's kind of a lot and online course completion is at an all-time low. There are many reasons for not making money with a course you believed in. I was one of them with so many other courses I failed at. I just found this one different.
> 
> Beat up on these guys all you want. This doesn't affect me. I'm just telling it like is from someone who spent their hard-earned money on the program. You don't have to believe anyone here. The internet has minted more millionaires than any other platform, so something has to work online. And as far as people thinking their method is generic and broad, it's actually pretty specialized. The numerous tactics I've never hard of and I'm a veteran in publishing.
> 
> *But I get it, everything I say will be dismissed with an unsubstantiated pithy remark because that's what the craven do. * They pontificate on things from afar having never actually experienced something for real. I can criticize a lot of things having never done it. I suggest people stay level-headed and skeptical of all online programs, but also study logic and facts. Criticize judiciously. Don't go off speculation and triple-hearsay. I'm okay with anyone ignoring that. My audiobooks will still be making me money despite what you think.
> 
> If you think they're scams, be a man and do something about it, build a better business model, get your own legion of backers. Something tells me that *if* you become successful legitimately, you'll get 20+ comments about how you're a scam too. Maybe you'll have a grateful student stand up for you because they enjoyed your course. But that won't matter, right? Everything is a scam.


----------



## [email protected]

Hi, I was interested in investing in the programme. I have a couple of questions. How would I be able to contact you? Thanks.


----------



## Some Random Guy

A fresh sock puppet. How wonderful.
💩


----------



## Becca Mills

We don't call other members "sock puppets" here. If you suspect someone of starting a second account in order to secretly support themselves, report that account/post to the moderators, and we'll take a look. When we find unauthorized second accounts, we shut them down.


----------



## MalcolmJWardlaw

I don't pay for marketing courses on the principle that there's nothing in them that is not available for free. I've learned this in a couple of cases of by chance having got a course for free that normally was several hundred dollars. The one possible exception would be courses by the really top people (Mark Dawson, Dave Chesson and Joanna Penn, one or two others), which I have consistently heard highly praised. The fact is that there are a lot of persuasive hustlers out there. Just keep your hands in your pockets and keep Googling until you find out what you want. It will be out there somewhere for free.


----------



## David VanDyke

Why would anyone come here to ask about investing in a suspect "programme?"

Why not go straight to the highly publicized website?

Writer beware.


----------



## Hatzic

Hi! I'm brand new to the kB community. I was searching for background info about this Mikkelsen "course" & found this thread, which has been valuable to deciding _not_ to take it.
I'm a natural skeptic so I'll share what made me cringe about these guys' presentation & marketing tactics.

They actually try to pretend it's a live info session you're on, and it's so obviously _not_ it's embarrassing (for them, and an insult to one's intelligence.) Straight off, not a good sign.

I know I was the only one watching. The chat was empty with no responses when they'd ask people to respond to a hype question (along the lines of "so who thinks this sounds great?! Say yes in the chat!"). Then he'd say, "Ok great! I can see in the chat lot of you do!". Lol.

They also suggest you consider arranging for a PayPal loan to pay the course fee at once to get the best 'deal'. That's pretty grubby.

Then, in their follow up, time-sensitive, last-chance emails they flood your inbox with after, they say stuff like, "Hey! We got sooo many people who flooded our inbox asking if they could take advantage of the deal later as they didn't have the money right now so yes you can....", and comments like, "That was such a great session! My throat is sore from all that talking!!" - give me a break. So lame and fake knowing these were outright falsehoods. I found the overall presentation interesting but would never dive into these slickly presented schemes, with the urgent action needed on your part, without doing research. Hence my being here now. 

If they're going to fib like that & carefully create false impressions, how much can you trust the rest of it....
Nice dream but it's just smoke & mirrors...
Glad I found kB though - as a few of you mentioned, keeping the thread active has helped this researcher, so I appreciate the thread and the posts.
Thanks!


----------



## Doglover

Hatzic said:


> Hi! I'm brand new to the kB community. I was searching for background info about this Mikkelsen "course" & found this thread, which has been valuable to deciding _not_ to take it.
> I'm a natural skeptic so I'll share what made me cringe about these guys' presentation & marketing tactics.
> 
> They actually try to pretend it's a live info session you're on, and it's so obviously _not_ it's embarrassing (for them, and an insult to one's intelligence.) Straight off, not a good sign.
> 
> I know I was the only one watching. The chat was empty with no responses when they'd ask people to respond to a hype question (along the lines of "so who thinks this sounds great?! Say yes in the chat!"). Then he'd say, "Ok great! I can see in the chat lot of you do!". Lol.
> 
> They also suggest you consider arranging for a PayPal loan to pay the course fee at once to get the best 'deal'. That's pretty grubby.
> 
> Then, in their follow up, time-sensitive, last-chance emails they flood your inbox with after, they say stuff like, "Hey! We got sooo many people who flooded our inbox asking if they could take advantage of the deal later as they didn't have the money right now so yes you can....", and comments like, "That was such a great session! My throat is sore from all that talking!!" - give me a break. So lame and fake knowing these were outright falsehoods. I found the overall presentation interesting but would never dive into these slickly presented schemes, with the urgent action needed on your part, without doing research. Hence my being here now.
> 
> If they're going to fib like that & carefully create false impressions, how much can you trust the rest of it....
> Nice dream but it's just smoke & mirrors...
> Glad I found kB though - as a few of you mentioned, keeping the thread active has helped this researcher, so I appreciate the thread and the posts.
> Thanks!


Reminds me of a seminar I once went to run by a couple of fellas who were making a tax free fortune on Forex trading. Then why, I asked myself, are they wearing clothes twenty years out of date and very well washed and driving cars so old they are held together with rust?


----------



## ASG

Oh hey, I hadn't seen this thread yet... Gave me a good laugh, at least! Those first time posters praising the Mikkelsen's were particularly entertaining haha. Dodgy indeed.


----------



## matencio

116273 said:


> _I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._
> 
> Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.
> Also, on their videos and course sales page, they clearly have Disclaimers about their income and results. I know people don't read the fine
> print, but it's there. Caveat emptor.
> 
> *As someone who would have paid 3X's the course, I found the Mikkelsen Twins' course to be legitimate--a minority opinion here.*
> It's not easy and it can't be simplified to a few lines as people in this thread have done. It's doable, but there are intricate parts
> that do require deep training. *In one YT video, they even said it could take 6 months to a year to get results. Some make money far sooner, but that's pretty transparent to me. * What scam artist would say that? I think the business model is interesting as it does focus on Kindle audio books exclusively.
> Think about the opportunities in ASMR, language acquisition, hypnosis, PTSD, etc.
> 
> In their private FB group, you'll see dozens of people posting their wins. (It's a real positive bunch.) That is worth more than the course,
> IMHO. It's a group people of trying to make it all work! Honesty, since the course is a kinda expensive, there are people in there
> doing everything they can to break even quickly. They don't want to be taken. Some do it in a few months and others fall off and never finish the course.
> However, the business model does work and it's always being updated to be relevant. --All of which I don't pay attention to.
> 
> The bi-monthly live coaching calls are hard for me since the time zone does not line up, but I just watch the replays.
> Unfortunately, that means that I don't get my question answered immediately. They do have someone doing customer service beyond
> the FB group moderator help.
> 
> So yes, it does sound too good to be true. And yes, only people who complete the looooong course and execute the tasks make any money.
> And yes, these two have a personality that people can love or pick on. I get all of that. But as far as their course, it's NOT a scam.
> If you don't like them or the business, let it be and move on. But* it's not right to talk about something you don't know anything about because you're on the outside purely speculating!*
> 
> What you'll learn about any money-making idea is that if others have replicated a trainer's results perfectly, there might be something to it.
> If you have the right mindset and you execute relentlessly to achieve the desired result, you'll make it.
> However, that's what is probably not stressed enough in ANY online program. Relentless entrepreneurs are hard to find.
> People who fail to see the logic in that will never succeed. These guys might not be your favorite and the money does sounds too good to be true, but I've personally chatted to many people in this course to find the claim that the Mikkelsen twins are a scam. In fact, I find them to be incredibly supportive. Feel free to DM for any Q.s
> --------
> *Update: So what I'm getting from the replies are that:*
> 1. A first-time commenter here gets disrespect for being new.
> 2. No one here actually took the course.
> 3. Cynicism and trolling prevails.
> 
> Well, it is what it is! However, I'm here because I was bored on Reddit. Forgive me for not having 1M comments here.
> Also, as someone who has been burnt by so-called online gurus ($1,000+), I found this course and FB group great.
> I guess some people won't believe me, but that's their prerogative. I know what transpired. But think for one second before the snide cynicism rears its ugly head again. What if 100 of the 100,000,000 courses out there are actually legit? Is everyone successful online educator a fraud? That's just dumb thinking.
> 
> People's criteria for evaluation has to be better. Yes, lots of scams out there, but not everyone is a crook. If there were a way I could whisk you into the FB group and have you talk to several of my chums about the kind of money they were making with this program, that might add more legitimacy. No one has a reason to lie or save face. People know if they are not successful, it's because they didn't do what the map laid out. It's kind of a lot and online course completion is at an all-time low. There are many reasons for not making money with a course you believed in. I was one of them with so many other courses I failed at. I just found this one different.
> 
> Beat up on these guys all you want. This doesn't affect me. I'm just telling it like is from someone who spent their hard-earned money on the program. You don't have to believe anyone here. The internet has minted more millionaires than any other platform, so something has to work online. And as far as people thinking their method is generic and broad, it's actually pretty specialized. The numerous tactics I've never hard of and I'm a veteran in publishing.
> 
> *But I get it, everything I say will be dismissed with an unsubstantiated pithy remark because that's what the craven do. * They pontificate on things from afar having never actually experienced something for real. I can criticize a lot of things having never done it. I suggest people stay level-headed and skeptical of all online programs, but also study logic and facts. Criticize judiciously. Don't go off speculation and triple-hearsay. I'm okay with anyone ignoring that. My audiobooks will still be making me money despite what you think.
> 
> If you think they're scams, be a man and do something about it, build a better business model, get your own legion of backers. Something tells me that *if* you become successful legitimately, you'll get 20+ comments about how you're a scam too. Maybe you'll have a grateful student stand up for you because they enjoyed your course. But that won't matter, right? Everything is a scam.


Wow, If I was looking for info about a program, I certainly found it! This is great! That you tried so hard to convince people it's not a BS program. Clearly, your comments indicate the obvious. It is. Not buying the course. Done for me, And any veteran of publishing would know how to spell. Just saying.


----------



## anotherpage

Rachel Craft said:


> So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.
> 
> Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?
> 
> _Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
> 
> Edited to change the thread title again. Further alterations will result in thread lock._


From what I can gather they get you to get other people to write and you publish ( ghost writing ). Its more b.s


----------



## David VanDyke

And yet it works on those who don't know the old adage "If it's too good to be true...it is."

"There's a sucker born every minute." - P.T. Barnum.

So many authors desperately crave validation, and they think sales or money will fill that hole. But, I know people who've sold millions that have used that money to try to game things like the NYT bestseller lists by buying masses of their own books...which makes no sense until you realize that they are trying to fill a hole in their soul, not make money.

Me, I'll take the money. Oh, already did.


----------



## red1gem

clare30690 said:


> I was also curious, and finally, I thought I'd give it a try. Thinking about the worst-case I'll ask for a refund. But when I joined the course, and the FB community group I realized that this really works. All you need is to learn and show the dedication to apply what you learn. The results are not the same for everyone, I just started week 2 of the course now and tbh I learned a lot. Not sure if I'm gonna get the results like others in the group who's making 10k or more p.m. but it's worth the price and a legitimate one. They do live Q&A call biweekly, this made me satisfied that people are real and I can ask all my questions.


How do you feel about AIA now? Have you made money? Was it worth the time/money? I'm interested to hear your results. Thanks!


----------



## ShayneRutherford

Aaaaand here comes another one-post wonder.


----------



## Brooster42

unkownwriter said:


> Oh, honey, they make their money from _ you_, and others like you, who pay them a thousand bucks for information that is either dodgy ethically, goes against TOS, or is outright illegal.
> 
> There is no easy money in writing. None. Everything requires time, effort, knowledge and money. ROI for most is negligible, if there's any at all. Write because you can't not write. Learn the publishing business, and marketing, or go for the traditional publishing contract (and you'll still need the marketing), but don't fall for that easy passive income nonsense.


----------



## Brooster42

I just recently watched the video presentation and googled a search to see if I could find a review on these two carpet-bagging scouldrels. I landed here and I'm hearing very little that bears any resemblance to the presentation I just watched. First off, this is NOT about writing or publishing. This "scheme" "scam" "scum" or even "brilliant plan to passive income" is about doing a few things that should result in regular paydays for you. The end goal is to be selling your own audiobook on Audible. In this "hustle", you are to -
1) Find a category to target (click on most popular to see what's up)
2) Hire a ghost writer to write your book. They say pro-ghostwriters get 10K - 20K to write a book but he knows starving artists and college kids that can write good non-fiction manuscripts for $500 - $600. Not a 400 page book for sure. Hire another hungry artist to create a great book cover. $10 - $20. Next - a voice for hire to narrate - $100. 

Now its your book. You didn't write, draw, or narrate but it's still yours to sell. List it on Audible and sit back. Voila. Can also be sold as an E-book, or put in print, and listed on other sites as well. But the claims I saw above have all been far from the video I viewed. I was lookin to see if I could find any evidence of scammery, or a witness who spent their money to learn the secrets of this device. I have found neither in this string. "Unknown Writer" seems to be well versed and experienced in writing and publishing/marketing - but this device is specifically about NOT writing and farming it out to someone enthusiastic about a career in writing. I'm looking for someone who plunked down the cash to see what happened - one way or the other. 

Usually when people get ripped off, misled, scammed - they will tend to be vocal about it - especially on the innerwebs. One who posted in this post mentioned seeing Youtube videos when the "two" got caught up in some mischief or some sort? I enjoy feedback like theirs where info can help forge a picture of these guys.


----------



## Doglover

Another one. Let's just make this clear: firstly we are writers. We are not about buying our way in and selling something you haven't written and have paid to have put together by someone without enough talent to do things themselves. Secondly, these idiots are asking thousands for information that can be found for free on any relevant site. 

If you or they in their little fantasy world believe that all one needs to do is publish on audio and sit back, they are more delusional than it at first appeared. If only.


----------



## David VanDyke

Hahahaha. More new accounts where the very first posts aren't about writing, or how to "do indie," or even introducing themselves--they're trying to bunk (the opposite of debunk) a thoroughly discredited black-hat scheme.

Thank you, all you fakers, for again highlighting the dangers of sending large amounts of money to people who have gotten their accounts banned and do not actually write books, which is what real authors are focused on.

Just like those seminars that charge you hundreds of dollars to supposedly teach you how to make millions in some arena such as real estate, the only money being made is by those selling the questionable videos and "courses."


----------



## David VanDyke

There's a great new series on Netflix(TM) called "Money, Explained" that lays out in the first episode how scams and frauds are structured--things like Ponzi schemes, advance fee schemes, coaching schemes, etc.

Watch the episode and see how many of these markers and warning signs any particular scheme, including this one, shows.

It's eye-opening.


----------



## scottdouglas

I don’t know about these guys, but I do recommend Mark Dawson’s course if you really want to learn the business. I don’t think you really need any course while you’re first starting out though. You’ll find plenty of good tips here that will help get you started.


----------



## ASG

Bryan Cohen also has a good course, with even a free version which he makes available 4 times a year. Learned a lot with that one.


----------



## ......~......

The thing about the popular self-publishing gurus is that they often don’t share what they _actually _do to get those sales, or that rank or whatever.

But I’m sure there’s no shortage of people willing to hand them cash to learn the “secrets” which will never be shared in the courses.


----------



## Al Garete

Rachel Craft said:


> So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.
> 
> Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?
> 
> _Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
> 
> Edited to change the thread title again. Further alterations will result in thread lock._


These twin guys from Publishing Life pretend to be friendly and helpful. My experience is very different. About 2 months ago I bought the course for nearly $1500. I studied every night after my full time job, I spent every weekend learning and arranging all the necessary stuff in order to publish my first book, and I didn't really bother the customer support much because I wanted to get through the very information overloaded course. I got really frustrated and lost and I voiced my frustrations to the customer support. Just after 2 emails back and forth, I got threatened that criticizing the content of the course is not allowed. After my next normal email, the customer service guy cut me off and refunded my money. No explanation other than I don't fit to the culture. Nobody asked me why I was so frustrated, nobody gave me a fair warning, our loving Twins just cut me off after all the work I have done. I wasn't born yesterday and I can see clearly through their business model. But I wanted to learn how to publish a book and maybe change a couple of things in my life as a result, so I gave it an honest go. There is a lot of nice pep talk, but the reality is very different. 

When they lure people into buying their course, they say that they will do anything to make the member succeed. I have worked so hard on this for 8 weeks straight and only one time I voiced my frustrations, without any bad language or anything like that, and our loving Twins decided to cut me off, without a chance to explain why I was so frustrated with the course. If you think that this course is just a step by step manual on self publishing, and that you can easily do it if you are a single mom with 3 kids, think again. But that is the business model of so many courses out there from day trading to self publishing. 

These twins really disappointed me great deal, and not because of their fame driven fake attitude, but how cold blooded they are if someone simply doesn't fit into their little click. I bot the course, I have worked hard on it for 8 weeks and because of my first frustration with the content of the course, they found inconvenient and closed my account, with a really weak and lame BS explanation via their customer support guy. They know exactly how they are playing the odds and large numbers. I do not wish them well because they hit me below the waste line and I hope people will not be fooled like I was. I just hope I can find another resource and continue.


----------



## Bite the Dusty

Al Garete said:


> These twin guys from Publishing Life pretend to be friendly and helpful. My experience is very different. About 2 months ago I bought the course for nearly $1500. I studied every night after my full time job, I spent every weekend learning and arranging all the necessary stuff in order to publish my first book, and I didn't really bother the customer support much because I wanted to get through the very information overloaded course. I got really frustrated and lost and I voiced my frustrations to the customer support. Just after 2 emails back and forth, I got threatened that criticizing the content of the course is not allowed. After my next normal email, the customer service guy cut me off and refunded my money. No explanation other than I don't fit to the culture. Nobody asked me why I was so frustrated, nobody gave me a fair warning, our loving Twins just cut me off after all the work I have done. I wasn't born yesterday and I can see clearly through their business model. But I wanted to learn how to publish a book and maybe change a couple of things in my life as a result, so I gave it an honest go. There is a lot of nice pep talk, but the reality is very different. When they lure people into buying their course, they say that they will do anything to make the member succeed. I have worked so hard on this for 8 weeks straight and only one time I voiced my frustrations, without any bad language or anything like that, and our loving Twins decided to cut me off, without a chance to explain why I was so frustrated with the course. If you think that this course is just a step by step manual on self publishing, and that you can easily do it if you are a single mom with 3 kids, think again. But that is the business model of so many courses out there from day trading to self publishing. These twins really disappointed me great deal, and not because of their fame driven fake attitude, but how cold blooded they are if someone simply doesn't fit into their little click. I bot the course, I have worked hard on it for 8 weeks and because of my first frustration with the content of the course, they found inconvenient and closed my account, with a really weak and lame BS explanation via their customer support guy. They know exactly how they are playing the odds and large numbers. I do not wish them well because they hit me below the waste line and I hope people will not be fooled like I was. I just hope I can find another resource and continue.


Don't fit in with their "culture"? Got a refund? I call that a win.

Save that $1,500 for editing, a cover, and ads. And take the advice in the posts right above yours. There's so much free information available, all you need to get started and a bunch of helpful people are around if you just do the work and ask questions when need be.


----------



## ASG

Al Garete said:


> After my next normal email, the customer service guy cut me off and refunded my money.


You're very lucky they gave you that refund. I'm surprised they did.


----------



## travelinged

There are so many good courses on writing and marketing that are free or close to it, and books galore. Subscribe to Joanna Penn's news alerts and listen to her podcasts (free!); ditto for Dave Gaughrin. Also Dave Chesson who developed Publisher Rocket. And Reedsy. There are step-by-step publishing guides that simplify things. Master all that, and keep learning. Whether or not they are intended that way, most other courses seem designed to separate writers from their money. Even if they are good, most aren't necessary and paying more doesn't seem to add value somehow. .


----------



## David VanDyke

There are several real courses for half that money that will give you good info and respond well with customer service. I recommend Nick Stephenson's course, myself, but there are others.

Whatever course you are looking at, do some research. Ask around. Ask here.


----------



## Tinna Marie

Rachel Craft said:


> So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.
> 
> Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?
> 
> _Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
> 
> Edited to change the thread title again. Further alterations will result in thread lock._


The question I always ask myself is “If you were super quickly financially successful at this, why would you want to spend your time to sell it to someone else unless you needed money?”


----------



## KingAuthor

116273 said:


> _I'm 100% sure whatever I say about these guys will be ridiculed. That's what people do here. But you asked, so I answered. I took the course so I'm not pontificating. I do know know these guys personally. DM me and I'll show you my income reports._
> 
> Firstly, I hear you and your caution with online money-making programs. However,* this is LIBELOUS. They're not scams.*
> If they are scams, then scores of real students who vouch for them are also scams. Who would want that sort of publicity? It's their face everywhere and the twins spend a lot of money on ads, as you know. I supposed we all got scammed and no one wants to admit it. Honestly, that's a lot of money to be scammed for. If it were true, you'd hear a lot about it.


YOU've blocked off ace=cess to your profile and it gives no button or method to "DM" you. So I cannot request the income reports you've referenced. I'm willing to be gullible, to listen to what you have to report... but apparently , no access.


----------



## Lucy's Pa

I'm not a writer, nor am I a publisher. A few hours ago I fell down a YouTube "Rabbit Hole". I started out watching videos on how to pour a concrete patio. Those turned into a couple vids on woodworking which somehow morphed into a sales pitch having something to do with publishing books on Audible. I had no idea that I NEEDED to learn how to self publish. Thankfully the "twins" did. They even invited me to join them in their Exclusive Members Only section. Imagine my delight. 
I was born at night, but not last night baby. I knew these two were snake oil hustlers from the start, yet, somehow they sucked me in. I'm ashamed to say that I almost fell for the slick, polished pile of S#(+ they were selling. Thankfully, they educated me on how to use specific words when doing a Web search. Key Words, I believe they called them. I typed in the company name and the key word "scam". Guess what popped up? This thread, that's what. All I can say is, THANKYOU. Ya'll saved me a couple thousand dollars. But mostly, you saved me the embarrassment of explaining the charge on the American Express card to my wife. I already had to explain the fishing gear I impulsively bought last week. 
I will say this, .......... They're Slick! Really slick. I know better and I almost fell. Shame on me. The worst part........The 3 hours of sleep I missed. 
Good night, and thanks again ya'll.


----------



## David VanDyke

And fishing gear might even, in some universes, yield fish.


----------



## Desmond X. Torres

You want to make money at this game?
First learn how to write a good story. That's the toughest part. Become familiar w/ the fundamentals. On Writing is a good place to begin, but Sandra Gerth and Fiction U have wonderful resources at reasonable prices.

Then write a few books and stick em in a drawer for a while.
Then follow and read all the free stuff the following people have up:
Dawson
Gaughrin
Cohen
Chesson

Then spend some $ on:
-Dawson's Ads for Authors

Chesson's Kindleprenuer program
whatever the hell Gaughrin's selling (he gives so much away for free I feel guilty)
THEN look your books over. You've had them professionally edited by now, right? RIGHT?
Find covers in your genre you like and contact the authors for a referral. 99% of them will tell you straight up if it's not in their copyright page.

Rinse and repeat.
Took me & my wife 5 years to make $ at this, and now 8 years in we're blessed.


----------



## Adrian1040

Some Random Guy said:


> And another first post that doesn't smell like elephant dung at all. Nothing dodgy here, especially not the bolded parts and the screams of libel. How is it that you shills aren't smart enough to post something that doesn't scream bullcrap?


Did you get the course done? I am deciding on buying the course. If many people say it is a scam and many people are Saying that is it here good course to take. Who should I believe in! I like the students that are so successful, I don’t know them personally only the ads. What should I invest in, not the course or something else. How long does it take to have the one-year course learned? Is the course six hours per day? Is the course only a two minutes a day? I would like some comments, please!


----------



## ASG

Adrian1040 said:


> Did you get the course done? I am deciding on buying the course. If many people say it is a scam and many people are Saying that is it here good course to take. Who should I believe in! I like the students that are so successful, I don’t know them personally only the ads. What should I invest in, not the course or something else. How long does it take to have the one-year course learned? Is the course six hours per day? Is the course only a two minutes a day? I would like some comments, please!


It's not a matter of how many say it's good vs how many say it's bad. Read the actual comments. See what experienced writers have said about it. And notice how all the positive stuff come from folks who only signed up to post that ONE message (not fishy at all). Then draw your own conclusions.

It's really not rocket science


----------



## unkownwriter

Lucy's Pa said:


> They're Slick!


That's how these folks convince others to spend money. It's nothing new. Remember the easy millions in real estate stuff? Or how to make loads of money selling products to your friends and having it drop-shipped? Make a thousand dollars a month stuffing envelopes?

There are always people looking for an easy way to make money, and a bunch more willing to sell them that easy way.

Look, hiring ghostwriters isn't new. Those twins didn't come up with that, it's been going on since people started writing. This scheme of doing audio books likely wasn't their idea, either. I mean, an audio is just a narrated story, which can be ghostwritten.

There's no such thing as passive income from writing. You'll always have to be doing something to keep it all working and selling. It's work. Plain and simple.


----------



## Mdan1984

clare30690 said:


> I was also curious, and finally, I thought I'd give it a try. Thinking about the worst-case I'll ask for a refund. But when I joined the course, and the FB community group I realized that this really works. All you need is to learn and show the dedication to apply what you learn. The results are not the same for everyone, I just started week 2 of the course now and tbh I learned a lot. Not sure if I'm gonna get the results like others in the group who's making 10k or more p.m. but it's worth the price and a legitimate one. They do live Q&A call biweekly, this made me satisfied that people are real and I can ask all my questions.


Hello. So how did you make out with go publishing? I was going to try but chickened out in the end. You made this post I’m replying to in 2020. Its2022. Was it worth it? You making at least “some” money? 
melt ne know I’d greatly appreciate it.
Mike D [email protected]


----------



## unkownwriter

You need to remove your email, as this forum can be read by anybody.

That said, no one is making any money off this scheme other than the two who are pushing to people who don't know any better. Notice that not one single person who is actually writing books believes any of that nonsense? Because it is nothing but nonsense.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: there is no easy passive income from writing. None at all. There's no easy way to "make a million from Kindle". None at all.

Heck, even these twins are hustling their butts off, selling a dream to people who ought to have more sense.


----------



## John Wurf

Wayne Stinnett said:


> If it smells like monkey dung, get out of the jungle. Trust your gut.


I would've thought if you smell monkey dung, it's safe to stay in the jungle. If a monkey can survive there, maybe you can too.

I'd be more worried if it's monkey carcass you smell, now that's a jungle you wan out.


----------



## Jrwallzy

Rachel Craft said:


> So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.
> 
> Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?
> 
> _Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
> 
> Edited to change the thread title again. Further alterations will result in thread lock._


They literally edited themselves onto the cover of Forbes :')


----------



## Whiteknight

Jrwallzy said:


> They literally edited themselves onto the cover of Forbes :')


How did they do that? Is it legal?


----------



## saadqazi3452837

It's your choice, but if Christian and Rasmus's Audiobook Income Academy 2.0 coaching program appeals to you, you can enroll for a discounted fee of $1,497 if you register for the webinar alone, or pay the remaining $797 over three months.


----------



## Doglover

saadqazi3452837 said:


> It's your choice, but if Christian and Rasmus's Audiobook Income Academy 2.0 coaching program appeals to you, you can enroll for a discounted fee of $1,497 if you register for the webinar alone, or pay the remaining $797 over three months.


If there is one thing these so-called courses tend to leave out when they are tempting people with vast incomes from kindle and audiobooks, it is that you have to be able to write. If you can't do that, find something more suited to your own talents.

There are no get rich quick schemes unless you, too, are prepared to sell useless courses. As to the original poster's question of why do You Tube allow a scam to promote, unless someone complains, they don't even know. Even if someone does complain, it is unlikely the ads will be banned.


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## Milasugar

To me they are big scammer. Also today I found on my calander of gmail. A highlighted section with there info [email protected]. I am shocked, because I block them for to many emails. Continuously ask to join for 1999 dollar. Offering 4 easy payment. Now Google do have glitches on their apps. When you sign in it's just like opening Pandora box. Giving access to anybody to hacker you. If you dont close each application down after you finish. Your open to all the lichens out there to steal what money or info you have. They need to be put on rip off website. 😪 mila


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## izzyraemercier

I kept getting ads for them on places like Youtube and it seemed too good to be true. Probably because it is. Now I don't have any experience with these guys in particular but I do have past experience with scammers. One of the major red flags was the timer counting down as soon as you entered their site. Scams want to pressure you into signing up as soon as possible before you have time to think. Most legitimate businesses and sites won't have this feel of "Quick! Clock is ticking!" as soon as you enter the site even if there's a limited time sale on products. The worst part about publishing life is the timer has no context at all telling you what it's there for. And when you reset the site, it resets and counts down again. It's purely there just to pressure first-comers and make them think there's little time to act. Again, scammers don't want you to have time to think. Legitimate businesses will recommend you look into things more to make sure it's the right fit for you. Another site that does the timer method is eharmony funny enough. "Special deal but time is running out." but as soon as time does run out, they give you an even better deal with another timer strapped on it. Feel free to check them out to form your own opinion. Just don't give money to sites that are pressuring you to "sign up before it's too late."


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## jkswills

Rachel Craft said:


> So I am on Youtube and researching about kindle publishing, and I'm seeing a LOT of ads from a pair of young guys called the Mikkelsen Twins. They claim to be making a six figure income from publishing with something called "ghost audio". Apparently the premise is, based on their presentation, that they outsource material and then publish it for profits. This sounds interesting but as anything with online marketing these days I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've done some research elsewhere and from what I can determine they aren't in cahoots with any "credible" authors or anyone in the publishing space.
> 
> Is it a scam and if so why in the world is Youtube allowing these guys to promote? What's the general consensus on these blokes?
> 
> _Edited to restore the thread's original title. KBoards' prefers specific, evidence-based descriptions to name-calling. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca
> 
> Edited to change the thread title again. Further alterations will result in thread lock._


As at 5 December 2022 I have been well and truly scammed by this pair posing as an LLC, by the time I realised and tried to STOP Payment they had charged me through PayPal more than £1500.00 which ha almost broke me through taking ALL MY MONEY and leaving me in debt to my eyebrows.
PLEASE, Please dont get caught by these two scammers, I’ve been trying to get my money returned for months without any luck.
Jim Wills


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## stevereid2908

jkswills said:


> As at 5 December 2022 I have been well and truly scammed by this pair posing as an LLC, by the time I realised and tried to STOP Payment they had charged me through PayPal more than £1500.00 which ha almost broke me through taking ALL MY MONEY and leaving me in debt to my eyebrows. PLEASE, Please dont get caught by these two scammers, I’ve been trying to get my money returned for months without any luck. Jim Wills


 Thanks, you just saved me making the same mistake, sorry to hear about your loss


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