# Does being a writer mean I can't give bad book reviews?



## Shane Murray (Aug 1, 2012)

Reading a thread on here http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,125189.0.html, which is bashing an author for giving his competition fake bad reviews. This is obviously unethical, but from the tone of the posts there seems to be the opinion that authors are *not allowed* to give bad reviews to fellow authors.

I am certain that authors on here have given fellow authors positive reviews before, but how about bad ones? If you only write good reviews for fellow authors it seems kind of similar, it is, in a way, also deceitful. Obviously the intent in giving a good review is different, but if you genuinely don't like a book, why can't you say so?

Thoughts?

(not an author a yet, so technically this does not apply to me, yet )


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Do what you want!

There's no Hobo Code for authors.


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## MalloryMoutinho (Aug 24, 2012)

My first inclination would be to stay away from any bad reviews whatsoever--but that's just a gut reaction and not what I really think you should do.

As long as you're not ONLY giving bad reviews to books directly 'in competition' with yours I don't see a problem. Spread the hate love.

BUT, if you are going to give a bad review...really explain. Not that I think you would just write "Wah...this book sucks waaaaaah" 

Just don't write a bad review on my book...I'll cry.


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## Shane Murray (Aug 1, 2012)

MalloryMoutinho said:


> My first inclination would be to stay away from any bad reviews whatsoever--but that's just a gut reaction and not what I really think you should do.
> 
> As long as you're not ONLY giving bad reviews to books directly 'in competition' with yours I don't see a problem. Spread the hate love.
> 
> ...


Usually we authors read many books in a same genre that they write in.

How about if its a public review? Like on your blog or something?


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## MalloryMoutinho (Aug 24, 2012)

Shane Murray said:


> Usually we authors read many books in a same genre that they write in.
> 
> How about if its a public review? Like on your blog or something?


True, but normally there are so many sub-genres within genres for that not to be too concerning. But, yeah, blogging is probably safest.

But...(let me put my reader-only shoes on here real quick)...not seeing the bad reviews is a disservice to me. I rarely trust anything with only amazing reviews, unless there are thousands. I always take a quick look at the bad reviews too because I frequently find that helps solidify my decision to buy. I read a lot of romances where the bad reviews are all "too much swearing/sex." That personally doesn't bother me, so I buy anyway.

Or, the bad reviews are legitimate analysis, but it becomes obvious that I don't share the same opinion.

Avoiding reviews altogether on Amazon would--sadly--be safest. But, you as a writer probably care to give meaningful reviews.


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## Shane Murray (Aug 1, 2012)

I plan on publishing my first fantasy novel this year. I also read a fair bit of fantasy (more than half of my reading probably). In the past I have put reviews on Amazon under my name and copies of the reviews on my blog. Some reviews have been good, some have been bad, but all of them point out things I liked and didn't like. 

I thought I was pretty fair. I don't feel like I have done anything wrong, though I can understand why people would be a little apprehensive about it, especially doing it to authors they are technically in competition with.

It would be interesting to get a show of hands for:
a) only post good reviews
b) post good reviews in all genres, and bad reviews in different genres to your own
c) post good and bad reviews regardless of genre
c) post nothing, hands off!


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## JGreen20 (Jul 10, 2012)

Shane Murray said:


> Reading a thread on here http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,125189.0.html, which is bashing an author for giving his competition fake bad reviews. This is obviously unethical, but from the tone of the posts there seems to be the opinion that authors are *not allowed* to give bad reviews to fellow authors.
> 
> I am certain that authors on here have given fellow authors positive reviews before, but how about bad ones? If you only write good reviews for fellow authors it seems kind of similar, it is, in a way, also deceitful. Obviously the intent in giving a good review is different, but if you genuinely don't like a book, why can't you say so?
> 
> ...


You are free to do whatever you want. Writing a bad review for another author is not automatically bad. It depends on the motivation behind that action.

Personally, I wouldn't give a bad review to an author whose books are my direct competition. Even if I genuinely believe that the book deserves a bad rating. I want to keep clear boundaries. Sometimes it can be very easy to convince yourself that you do something for the right reasons when it's not true. The best way to avoid it is not doing it at all.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Most people are either a reviewer or a writer, although they may go through different stages at different times.

I don't believe you can still review as honestly when you're a writer, even if only for the reason that the writing community is so small that you're likely to know the writer you are reviewing and it's just not a comfortable thing to do to slag a friend on a public website, especially if you still expect them to be your friend afterwards.

I have only ever left very negative reviews on tradepubbed books where I have no relationship with the author. Otherwise I only review what I enjoy and don't review what I don't enjoy.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Shane Murray said:


> I plan on publishing my first fantasy novel this year. I also read a fair bit of fantasy (more than half of my reading probably). In the past I have put reviews on Amazon under my name and copies of the reviews on my blog. Some reviews have been good, some have been bad, but all of them point out things I liked and didn't like.
> 
> I thought I was pretty fair. I don't feel like I have done anything wrong, though I can understand why people would be a little apprehensive about it, especially doing it to authors they are technically in competition with.
> 
> ...


I think b is your safest bet. Some authors go one further and avoid reviewing in their genre totally, good or bad. I can't think of a reason not to post a good review in your genre though. I personally would refrain from posting a bad review in the genre because there may be some who would question your motives or truthfulness of the review. For me, it wouldn't be worth it in that scenario. I'd just read the book but keep my bad opinion to myself.


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## Kwalker (Aug 23, 2012)

If the book is truly bad I don't finish reading, therefore I don't feel capable of giving a honest review. I'll mark it on goodreads that I couldn't finish. I would probably share it on my blog, I don't know. 

Now, I would absolutely give only 2 or 3 stars to something if I did finish it and felt it deserved it, because that would mean it would have some good and bad qualities I could point out, just that the bad might possibly outweigh the good.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

The main concern is that Amazon doesn't allow you to post reviews (good, bad, indifferent) on novels of the same genre.  They view it as competition.  So on that site, be careful. A lot of writers have, in the past, taken issue with this since book reviews aren't the same as if, let's say, Pepsi executives talked down Coke products ... readers don't have to only pick one writer to follow, or love only one book and ergo hate all others.  

I believe in honesty.  That's my thing.  I think good books should be cheered and books that need work deserve constructive criticism.  I used to review on Amazon all the time, I'd read a book (generally in a day or two) write an honest review and move on ... then I started writing, my reading time slowed down, then Amazon started coming down on writers who use their review system to write up reviews for authors in the same sandbox.  That's when I decided I'd read published books just to read them ... but for the part of myself that loves to react to something, I'd start offering beta reads for other writers.


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## That one girl (Apr 12, 2011)

Italiahaircolor said:


> The main concern is that Amazon doesn't allow you to post reviews (good, bad, indifferent) on novels of the same genre. They view it as competition. So on that site, be careful.


This is the approach I take on all sites when writing reviews. I don't review books in my genre, period. Good or bad. I will give a star rating on Goodreads, but only if it's good. I don't want to influence someone not to buy a competitor's book because competition is good. It makes me strive to be better.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Is this Amazon rule new? Because I've got reviews posted in my genre.


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## That one girl (Apr 12, 2011)

It's not new. Do you have reviews from authors in your genre or have you posted reviews for authors in your genre?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Giving bad reviews to other authors is like playing Russian roulette.  You might encounter a lot of 'clicks', but eventually you're going to run into a 'bang'.

And by bang, I mean an author who doesn't take kindly to another author criticizing their work, especially in such a public way that can affect their sales.  And then you face the possibility of retalliation in the form of bad reviews coming from them.  

You may think you're 'doing them a favor' by pointing out shortcomings in their books, but trust me, a lot of them won't take it that way.

Of course, as we've seen, one can always be a douche and post negative reviews under a different name than they publish.  Nothing to stop people from being jerks.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I know of one author, whose reviews on all books were removed, and she's been banned from giving reviews in the future (on Amazon), because she left reviews  on books in the same genre and someone complained.


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## Shelley Altamont (Apr 3, 2012)

The aspect of this that I don't understand is "competition." How exactly are authors in competition with each other? Readers don't exclude one author from consideration merely because they also read another author. To the contrary, reading one author's work ussually leads a reader to the work of _other,_ similar authors. Therefore, if I wanted to make a "sockpuppet" to post a fake review on another author's novel, I'd write an outstanding 5-star review for them and mention (by the by) how similar it is to _my_ work! (Link and all!)


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

And, even if the review is legit, a review of another author's book in one's genre could be seen as sour grapes, not only by the author being reviewed but by his or her readers.  And then "stuff" ensues.

Betsy


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

I post a LOT of reviews both on my blog and on Amazon and I rarely give bad reviews for the simple reason that if a book is that bad I don't finish it and I don't review books I don't finish.

However, on those rare occasions when I do post a negative review I try to make is substantive. I point out what I find problematic and try to be give specific examples. That way readers can make up their minds i that is something they care about.

It's always risky for authors to review because there can be retaliation. It has happened to me more on Goodreads than on Amazon where people can just give a rating without explaining why. On a couple of occasions I gave critical reviews and within 24 hours a couple of my books garnered 3 or 4 one-star ratings with no review. When I looked, all of them came from friends of the author whose book I had just reviewed. You have to decide if you want to chance it.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I know of one author, whose reviews on all books were removed, and she's been banned from giving reviews in the future (on Amazon), because she left reviews on books in the same genre and someone complained.


Do you happen to know if the reviews she posted were positive or negative?


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## MegSilver (Feb 26, 2012)

Being a writer doesn't mean you can't give book reviews. Being an _author_ means your audience needs you to write books, not reviews.

Just sayin'.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

I sample and "look inside" a lot of books that I never read. So there go all of my one- and two-star reviews before they ever get written.

I'll post a three-star, since that's still positive. Mostly, it's four- and five-star reviews.

I did post a couple of two-stars this year. One was for a very famous s-f book from the 1970s that has hundreds of reviews, so my little whine wasn't going to hurt anyone much, at least in the sales department. The other was a three-star book with woeful formatting for which I docked it one star. This one seems to have been withdrawn from publication, hopefully while they fix the formatting.

But I'm trying to stay positive. "If you can't say something nice," you know.


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## Shelley Altamont (Apr 3, 2012)

MegSilver said:


> Being a writer doesn't mean you can't give book reviews. Being an _author_ means your audience needs you to write books, not reviews.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Does an author get bathroom breaks at least?


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## MegSilver (Feb 26, 2012)

Shelley Altamont said:


> Does an author get bathroom breaks at least?


Nevah.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

There is an obvious conflict of interest.  Any non 5 star review and you will be accused of torpedoing another author.  If all your reviews are 5 star, you will be accused of being a sock puppet.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Shelley Altamont said:


> Does an author get bathroom breaks at least?


Yes.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Italiahaircolor said:


> The main concern is that Amazon doesn't allow you to post reviews (good, bad, indifferent) on novels of the same genre. They view it as competition. So on that site, be careful. A lot of writers have, in the past, taken issue with this since book reviews aren't the same as if, let's say, Pepsi executives talked down Coke products ... readers don't have to only pick one writer to follow, or love only one book and ergo hate all others.


I don't think this is enforced. Not with good reviews. Maybe with bad.


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## Rob May (Jun 18, 2012)

> It would be interesting to get a show of hands for:
> a) only post good reviews
> b) post good reviews in all genres, and bad reviews in different genres to your own
> c) post good and bad reviews regardless of genre
> c) post nothing, hands off!


Anything other than c) would be disingenuous, I think.

I'm one of those people who read reviews (mainly on Amazon) for most things that I buy, but I never write my own. Now that I've joined this forum and downloaded a few peoples' books, I feel that I should offer my opinions. Some stuff I like, other stuff I don't. I'll try to write some honest reviews! I think in a community of writers, as long as criticism is contructive then no one's going to hate you for writing a bad review.

Rob


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

MegSilver said:


> Being a writer doesn't mean you can't give book reviews. Being an _author_ means your audience needs you to write books, not reviews.
> 
> Just sayin'.


If authors didn't review other authors' work, we wouldn't have Mark Twain's famous review of _The Last of the Mohicans_, or the Gore Vidal/Norman Mailer feud, or the Truman Capote/Norman Mailer feud, or the Truman Capote quote about Jack Kerouac's writing, "It isn't writing, it's typing," or the C.S. Lewis/J.R.R. Tolkien dust-up over religion in their respective works, or the amusing feud between Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson that descended into fisticuffs at the 2004 British Press Awards.

No, Meg, I have to disagree. We're in the business of providing entertainment, and I believe it behooves all of us to broaden our stage beyond the mere printed page.

Now I feel like punching someone, just for fun. Or maybe, getting punched. Where's Norman Mailer when I need him?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Jan Strnad said:


> I'll post a three-star, since that's still positive. Mostly, it's four- and five-star reviews.
> 
> I did post a couple of two-stars this year. One was for a very famous s-f book from the 1970s that has hundreds of reviews, so my little whine wasn't going to hurt anyone much, at least in the sales department. The other was a three-star book with woeful formatting for which I docked it one star. This one seems to have been withdrawn from publication, hopefully while they fix the formatting.
> 
> But I'm trying to stay positive. "If you can't say something nice," you know.


Actually, Amazon considers three-star reviews to be 'critical'.

I stay positive with indie writers. I'm not going to submarine anyone's sales just because I happen to dislike their book.

On the other hand, I have no problem criticizing trad-published books. To me, that's different.


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## MegSilver (Feb 26, 2012)

Jan Strnad said:


> If authors didn't review other authors' work, we wouldn't have Mark Twain's famous review of _The Last of the Mohicans_, or the Gore Vidal/Norman Mailer feud, or the Truman Capote/Norman Mailer feud, or the Truman Capote quote about Jack Kerouac's writing, "It isn't writing, it's typing," or the C.S. Lewis/J.R.R. Tolkien dust-up over religion in their respective works, or the amusing feud between Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson that descended into fisticuffs at the 2004 British Press Awards.
> 
> No, Meg, I have to disagree. We're in the business of providing entertainment, and I believe it behooves all of us to broaden our stage beyond the mere printed page.
> 
> Now I feel like punching someone, just for fun. Or maybe, getting punched. Where's Norman Mailer when I need him?


I hear you, but in the present climate, I'm secretly thinking: "So they were the Kardashians and Snookis of their time?"

Sorry, but if I'm going to be a laughing stock, I'd rather it be because my writing sucks, not what a douche I can make of myself in public.

Yes, that may take some re-thinking, I do realize.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Rob May said:


> Anything other than c) would be disingenuous, I think.


I disagree. Personally, I don't see anything insincere about deciding to refrain from criticizing your peers' work in a public forum.



Rob May said:


> I think in a community of writers, as long as criticism is contructive then no one's going to hate you for writing a bad review.


Oh yeah. They'll not only hate you, they'll also come after you. Not all, of course, but they're out there.

Personally, I would be upset if a fellow author offered 'constructive criticism' in a public review. Reviews are intended for other readers, not me. If your goal is really to offer constructive criticism, you can do that in a private email.


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## Katy (Dec 16, 2010)

I find it interesting that in THIS thread, 1-star reviews are seen as potentially affecting sales in a negative way, yet in other threads (usually those where someone is lamenting about a 1-star review they've received) they are seen as "validating" your 5-stars and nothing to worry about. 

I also think it's interesting that the mantra is "the crap will sink to the bottom and the cream will rise to the top." Dragged and buoyed, respectively, by their 1-stars and 5-stars. Yet if no one is willing to "torpedo" a book with a 1-star, even if it's resoundingly bad, how will this happen, exactly? 

Just my thoughts...


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

swolf said:


> Actually, Amazon considers three-star reviews to be 'critical'.
> 
> I stay positive with indie writers. I'm not going to submarine anyone's sales just because I happen to dislike their book.
> 
> On the other hand, I have no problem criticizing trad-published books. To me, that's different.


I find this very very odd. Authors that happen to have a contract are still authors, they still have feelings just like an indy. So indy's get treated with kid gloves and those with contracts don't? Odd. Especially since I keep seeing all these threads around here where trads and indy's are suppose to be held at same standards.

But this is exactly what I see out there and why I am in general very very careful picking indy's to read. Other indy's don't want to hurt other indy's feelings, so the reviews tend to skew much higher than a trad published author of the same genre for example. So to me as a consumer, they start looking "fishy" and I move on to something else.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Katy said:


> I also think it's interesting that the mantra is "the crap will sink to the bottom and the cream will rise to the top." Dragged and buoyed, respectively, by their 1-stars and 5-stars. Yet if no one is willing to "torpedo" a book with a 1-star, even if it's resoundingly bad, how will this happen, exactly?


I should have qualified the 'torpedo' remark by stating that could be the case if they didn't have that many reviews. I've seen some author's sales plummet when the only review they have is a one-star. But no, I wouldn't be ruining their sales if they had plenty of other reviews.


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## Not Here Anymore (May 16, 2012)

This topic came up the other day on the "What makes you post a review on Amazon" thread. I don't do reviews, but that's my personal decision. As JGreen20 said, do what you want! I don't post reviews because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and I don't want to leave anyone out. I can barely keep up as it is, right now. If I added reviewing to the mix, I'd be even more behind!


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

I usually simply don't write reviews for books I didn't at least mildly enjoy.  I think the reaction you get has a lot to do with the way you write your review.  Did you calmly and reasonably explain what you liked and didn't like, giving reasons for both, and do your best to be fair and balanced?  Or did you indulge in a spiteful rant about how it was the most worthless thing you ever read and hurl every insult you could think of that might stick?  A book can have a lot of shortcomings and still have a few good points to mention, and even bad points can be discussed gracefully and with tact.  

The problem is that literary criticism is a very difficult thing to do.  It's not easy to explain why one book is better than another, and it's often hard to separate "liking" from "quality".  There have been quite a few excellent books I've read which I didn't like at all (Hemingway, for example).  And I'll confess that now and then I'll enjoy reading pulpy, low-quality fiction not because it's particulary good, but just because I like the story.  Even a trained nutritionist still enjoys a coke and a bag of Doritos now and then, in spite of the fact that he/she knows they're nothing but junk.

In my opinion, it's all right to say that a book is fun and interesting, although not very well written.  Or that it's artistic and beautiful even though it contains some very objectionable sentiments, and so forth.  I don't think anybody minds if you don't like certain aspects of what they wrote. . . that's expected, especially if there were other aspects you enjoyed.  It's when you trash the whole thing that you create resentment.  Not to mention the fact of not being very helpful to readers.

The purpose, after all, is to help other readers find things they'll enjoy and be glad they spent the money for.  A reviewer is there to perform a public service, not to indulge himself.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

Writing reviews makes me uncomfortable in general, partially because I worry about it reflecting badly on me as a writer. Especially negative reviews.

However, I've received a few review copies of books through LibraryThing, and if I didn't like them, I gave a negative review. I'm not going to go back on my word by not providing a review I agreed to provide, and I'm definitely not going to lie and say I enjoyed a book when I didn't. But in all the cases where I had to give a book a negative review, I tried to stay as positive as possible, and bring up the book's good points as well as the things I didn't like (even if the book hardly had anything I liked). And I kept the reviews off Amazon, so as not to harm the authors' star ratings.

(This is why I no longer request review copies from LibraryThing; being in the position where I have to give a book a negative review just makes me uncomfortable.)

If an author asked me directly for a review (as in a review swap or something like that), and I didn't end up liking the book, I think the best thing to do would be to contact them explaining my ambivalence and see if they still wanted me to post the review. But of course, that would involve having to explain to an author that I didn't like their book. Talk about awkward.

I did post a positive review for an indie book on Amazon a few weeks ago, because the book was amazing and I thought people should know about it - but it later occurred to me that it might look like a sock puppet review because I've hardly reviewed anything else on Amazon! Ack.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Atunah said:


> I find this very very odd. Authors that happen to have a contract are still authors, they still have feelings just like an indy. So indy's get treated with kid gloves and those with contracts don't? Odd. Especially since I keep seeing all these threads around here where trads and indy's are suppose to be held at same standards.
> 
> But this is exactly what I see out there and why I am in general very very careful picking indy's to read. Other indy's don't want to hurt other indy's feelings, so the reviews tend to skew much higher than a trad published author of the same genre for example. So to me as a consumer, they start looking "fishy" and I move on to something else.


A trade-published author has been 'accepted' by an editor and told that they're 'worthy' to be published. They don't need encouragement from me for their self-esteem.

And you haven't seen me in those threads about trad and indies being held to the same standards, so I'm not sure why it's odd for you to see me post this.

And if you're 'very picky' about picking indies to read, I assume you're buying based upon the sample, not the reviews. Plus the fact that many indie authors claim they don't review, so I'm not sure how much they're skewing the numbers. Also, I'd say that better-known authors are more likely targets for bad reviews because more poeple have heard of them. And perhaps more people are like you and make sure they check out an indie book more thoroughly before buying it, making it less likely they're going to hate it.


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## Griffin Hayes (Sep 20, 2011)

Not too long ago I had new author ask me to read and review an ebook they'd just released. After the first 3 chapters I felt (personally, of course) that the book had several issues and I sent the author back a note outlining the problems. I suggested the novel wasn't quite ready yet and that they might consider having beta readers take a look to help work out some of the kinks. I could very easily have given them one or two stars, but I felt that would have been a cruel thing to do. 

Maybe it's because I used to be a high school teacher and when a kid was acting up, instead of humiliating him in front of everyone, I'd take them aside after class and have a quick chat. 

I also wouldn't lambaste a book with a bad review if I was the first to review it. I had that done to me (by a fellow author no less) and I believe it seriously hurt the early momentum of what has turned out to be my best work to date.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

swolf said:


> A trade-published author has been 'accepted' by an editor and told that they're 'worthy' to be published. They don't need encouragement from me for their self-esteem.
> 
> And you haven't seen me in those threads about trad and indies being held to the same standards, so I'm not sure why it's odd for you to see me post this.
> 
> And if you're 'very picky' about picking indies to read, I assume you're buying based upon the sample, not the reviews. Plus the fact that many indie authors claim they don't review, so I'm not sure how much they're skewing the numbers. Also, I'd say that better-known authors are more likely targets for bad reviews because more poeple have heard of them. And perhaps more people are like you and make sure they check out an indie book more thoroughly before buying it, making it less likely they're going to hate it.


But you said up thread that reviews are for readers, which is something I agree with. Then why worry about the authors self esteem. It shouldn't matter than if its for readers.

I don't really base my picking on books on samples. I don't have time to wade through sample after sample. I would be doing nothing but read samples and never enjoy an actual book. I do my vetting before I get to a sample. A sample is just a last step. By that time I have usually already made up my mind. Reviews are one part of the vetting. 
So this skewing of indy reviews into the "if you don't have anything nice to say" territory, is a turn off.

And what that does is not make it less likely for me to "hate" a indy book, it makes it less likely for me to "try" a indy book. I can still hate a book even if it passes my vetting.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

I, too, have made the decision to only leave 5-star reviews and I do it for the books that I genuinely want to shout from a mountain top about.  As an author, I know the pain of a low star rating.  We've all see the threads here about how much a bad review has ruined someone's day.  I figure there are enough readers out there to take on that task, no one needs me to come out and Set Them Straight With My ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE! *insert thunderclap*  The repercussions of retaliation, the fact so many of these books I read are authored by folks I eventually get to know online, and the fact that The Internet Is Forever... there is some stuff I typed fifteen years ago that I would LOVE to disappear... but man... it doesn't...  I realized at one point someone I criticized on a forum in 1999 was someone I was having a job interview with ten years later.  Awkward.  You just never know.  The one rule that I have found to hold true on the internet is that anything negative you write will come back up.  Maybe not today.  Maybe not tomorrow.  But sometime in the next two decades, you'll shake your head and go, "I wish I could delete that..."


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Atunah said:


> But you said up thread that reviews are for readers, which is something I agree with. Then why worry about the authors self esteem. It shouldn't matter than if its for readers.
> 
> I don't really base my picking on books on samples. I don't have time to wade through sample after sample. I would be doing nothing but read samples and never enjoy an actual book. I do my vetting before I get to a sample. A sample is just a last step. By that time I have usually already made up my mind. Reviews are one part of the vetting.
> So this skewing of indy reviews into the "if you don't have anything nice to say" territory, is a turn off.
> ...


My point in the previous post was that because reviews are for readers, I don't see them as place to offer constructive criticism to other writers. However, we all know that writers read the reviews, and if I enjoy a book I have no problem with not only supporting the book with a positive review, but also providing some encouragement to the author at the same time.

You're free to disagree, and believe that if an author posts politive reviews of fellow authors, they should post negative reviews also. But from the evidence I've seen, that opinion isn't reflected among many readers. As a matter of fact, a lot of the readers I've run into feel the same way as I do - they'll post positive reviews and won't waste their time writing negative ones.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

swolf said:


> My point in the previous post was that because reviews are for readers, I don't see them as place to offer constructive criticism to other writers. However, we all know that writers read the reviews, and if I enjoy a book I have no problem with not only supporting the book with a positive review, but also providing some encouragement to the author at the same time.
> 
> You're free to disagree, and believe that if an author posts politive reviews of fellow authors, they should post negative reviews also. But from the evidence I've seen, that opinion isn't reflected among many readers. As a matter of fact, a lot of the readers I've run into feel the same way as I do - they'll post positive reviews and won't waste their time writing negative ones.


Than we are definitely hanging around a complete different group of readers, or groups. . Most of the readers I encounter on the webs, in forums, on boards, etc do not like the lopsided review tactics. Most find them as fishy as I do.

If I see a lot of 5 star reviews on a book I look at the reviewer. If its an obvious author name its easy. I can see if they only leave 5 stars or if they only leave lower stars for trad published, but never for indy's. I file these in the the "friends and family of indy author plan" and dismiss. I cannot always tell by the name, but a lot of times I can tell by the way a review is written. Authors tend to use terminology that isn't used the the average non writing reader.

T.L makes an excellent point though why reviews, even if they are critical, are important. I don't like to use the word negative. There is nothing negative about giving an honest opinion about a book. It somehow puts emphasis on doing something "bad" when reviewing and not giving 4 and 5 stars. It is that kind of mentality that turns me off.

With a book like T.L described, reading a sample would not tell one in most cases that there is such a theme in it.

I think there is this impression that skewing the ratings higher is somehow more helpful in selling more. Lets say I see 2 books, same genre, both unknown indy authors. Both have good blurbs, cover etc. One has 5 reviews, all 5 stars. The other has a 5, a 4, two 3's and maybe even a 1. Which one will I gravitate more too? The one with the varied reviews, every time.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

I have stopped reviewing after a nasty run-in with an author after giving one of his novels a bad review. He was indignant and certainly implied retaliation. He didn't but I realized that reviewing for an author was a very risky business. Either you're suspected of giving quid pro quo good reviews or open yourself up to both criticism and retaliation. I think it is best to avoid reviewing.


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## Toonldy (May 23, 2011)

Before I became a writer/author, I wrote a one-star review once of the latest book in a series by a bestselling novelist whose books I used to really enjoy. After paying close to $20 for the hardcover, I felt that readers should know what a disappointment this book was. I did not feel bad about writing the review, and the great majority of reviewers agreed with my negative review. The only time now I want to write a negative review is when I read a really poorly written e-book with lots of five-star review that must come from friends and families. But I refrain.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Atunah said:


> Than we are definitely hanging around a complete different group of readers, or groups. . Most of the readers I encounter on the webs, in forums, on boards, etc do not like the lopsided review tactics. Most find them as fishy as I do.
> 
> If I see a lot of 5 star reviews on a book I look at the reviewer. If its an obvious author name its easy. I can see if they only leave 5 stars or if they only leave lower stars for trad published, but never for indy's. I file these in the the "friends and family of indy author plan" and dismiss. I cannot always tell by the name, but a lot of times I can tell by the way a review is written. Authors tend to use terminology that isn't used the the average non writing reader.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but I will guarantee you, Atunah, that the one with a 5, 4, and couple of 3 and a 1 star review can't buy sponsorships on influential sites which often mean hundreds and possibly thousands of sales. That doesn't mean YOU shouldn't give an honest review, but coming from another author... it is a whole different situation.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

JRTomlin said:


> Yeah, but I will guarantee you, Atunah, that the one with a 5, 4, and couple of 3 and a 1 star review can't buy sponsorships on influential sites which often mean hundreds and possibly thousands of sales. That doesn't mean YOU shouldn't give an honest review, but coming from another author... it is a whole different situation.


And I personally think its sad that indy authors are pushed into this frenzy. I have stopped following some of those blogs and newsletters, because that demand of average stars is unrealistic and distorted. An indy should not need more average in a genre where some of the best get less. But that's a gripe for another day. I do understand the need for some kind of "vetting" if you will for blogs/sites of that kind, but I think it should be a lower average requirement and maybe rather the amount of reviews.

These are the things that drive this skewing environment. I don't support, or even check out those sites you guys talk about here. The sponsorship sites that is. I used to follow most of them in the early days, now none of those.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Atunah said:


> Than we are definitely hanging around a complete different group of readers, or groups. . Most of the readers I encounter on the webs, in forums, on boards, etc do not like the lopsided review tactics. Most find them as fishy as I do.
> 
> If I see a lot of 5 star reviews on a book I look at the reviewer. If its an obvious author name its easy. I can see if they only leave 5 stars or if they only leave lower stars for trad published, but never for indy's. I file these in the the "friends and family of indy author plan" and dismiss. I cannot always tell by the name, but a lot of times I can tell by the way a review is written. Authors tend to use terminology that isn't used the the average non writing reader.
> 
> ...


Once again, you're free to think that way, and select books that way, but as far as you being representative of a majority of readers, I'm just not seeing evidence of it.

And, to put it frankly, you're not in the same position as authors are, who have something to lose if they happen to post a negative - sorry, critical - review for a book that was written by an author who can't take criticism. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and make judgements, with no risk to the bottom line involved. I've seen authors have their entire catalog put in jeopardy by some nutjob they p*ssed off somehow.


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## Dave Adams (Apr 25, 2012)

I try to steer clear of giving any negative feedback at this point. There are several "name" authors who I think are awful, but I don't need to bring their fans down on my book looking for vengeance.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2012)

I use to review books. I thought I was helping my fellow authors out and helping readers find good books. I know readers liked my reviews, because I always posted them on my own site as well and would get sales through my affiliate links. My reviews were detailed and honest and pointed out good and bad in the book. My general rule of thumb was that anything that would have been less than three stars, I would write the review, send it to the author privately, and give the author the option for me not to post it. I thought I was being fair.

But then I would end up with “reviews” on my books that used almost the identical language I used in a negative review that I didn’t post. I lost countless hours fighting with Amazon to get retaliatory reviews removed. I would get obscenity-laden emails sometimes over THREE STAR reviews. I had someone yell at me for a four-star review once because “all my other reviews are five stars and now you F’d up my average.”

The day someone called my house and threatened to shove something somewhere is the day I stopped reviewing. 

At one time, I was a huge fan of the peer review concept. Theoretically, authors should be able to review each other as peers both for our own benefit and the benefit of readers. I used to encourage writers to write reviews because they can train you to read critically and practice your own writing. But it just isn’t worth the drama anymore. Writers probably should avoid reviewing if for no other reason than there are too many wackos out there with anger-management problems who can’t accept anything less than praise.

I don’t care how much some people claim they just want “honest reviews.” Few people want honest reviews. They want glowing reviews that will help sell books. If the review is honest, that’s a bonus. But it’s the reason why so many authors come here and post “Just got another great review!!!!” threads when the review is a two sentence piece of gibberish from an anonymous reviewer but has five stars attached to it. You think the author is celebrating that review for being…eh hem…honest? Or are they celebrating the boost to their star rating?

Nobody comes here to rejoice at the honest two star review. 

And the problem is that the more thoughtful your reviews and the higher your profile as a reviewer rises, the more likely you are going to attract the crazies. Because it isn’t the review people want. It’s the credibility that comes with getting a review from a high profile source. And high profile doesn’t mean what you might think it means. It doesn’t mean just a bestselling trad author or a highly respected magazine. It means getting a review from people who are beyond reproach insofar as suspicion and who can help you promote your book. The person that reviews under her real name instead of FloridaMom123. The person with a long review history who doesn’t look like a sock puppet. The person that has a site that caters to your target market and who will post the review there. 

I would say that, in the current environment, there is no gain for an author to review books and a lot of potential problems. I wish it was otherwise. But the environment is what it is. If you want to help out other authors whose work you enjoy, there are other ways to do so. Tweet, share on Facebook, talk them up on your blog. But reviewing? The whole thing is just a giant landmine right now.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Atunah said:


> And I personally think its sad that indy authors are pushed into this frenzy. I have stopped following some of those blogs and newsletters, because that demand of average stars is unrealistic and distorted. An indy should not need more average in a genre where some of the best get less. But that's a gripe for another day. I do understand the need for some kind of "vetting" if you will for blogs/sites of that kind, but I think it should be a lower average requirement and maybe rather the amount of reviews.
> 
> These are the things that drive this skewing environment. I don't support, or even check out those sites you guys talk about here. The sponsorship sites that is. I used to follow most of them in the early days, now none of those.


I don't [follow them] either. I consider their requirements unrealistic, but I can't deny their influence. (And the influential ones do have a requirement for the number of reviews as well as a star average)

Frenzy, though? I don't see it as a frenzy of any kind, but as self-published authors we do have business hats we wear and that includes an awareness of advertising.

ETA: And the point of my post seems to have gotten lost. Since as authors, there is too much risk in doing honest reviews, we shouldn't review at all. It's too bad, because I think reviews from authors have a considerable value. But the rather famous feuds between authors such as Vidal and Mailer show exactly what can come of one author reviewing another. Vidal could afford that. I can't.


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## Shelley Altamont (Apr 3, 2012)

T.L. Haddix said:


> Bold number one - The same way cereal brands are in competition with each other. Consumers with limited resources have to choose where and how to spend their dollars. That's basic business, and this is first and foremost a business.


I would disagree -- consumer brands are very different than "author brands." People tend to find the cereal brand they like, and then they buy it every week. Fiction is not like that at all. One writer simply can't fulfill a prolific reader's needs. If a reader enjoys a particular author, that doesn't mean the reader will stop reading other works or even stop looking for other works. If anything, the opposite: the reader will actively seek out similar works by other authors. They'll buy _more_, not less. (Hence the coveting of Amazon's "Alsobots." How many of us haven't thought, "Oh, I wish my book were on Stephen King's Alsobots!!!" (Or whoever your personal genre dreamboat might be.))

That's how it's always been for me and for anyone else I've talked to (who enjoys reading).

Which is to say, this is an industry in which one brand's success actively _helps_ its "competitors." That's pure opinion, however, as I have done no research on this topic!



> Bold number two - several words of warning. If you do that? You're going to lose readers and get one-star reviews by the drove, your review is going to be reported to and probably deleted by Amazon, and you might get a slap on the wrist by the big A, if not more. That's spamming. It's against the Terms of Service. You will destroy your reputation by doing that, because the readers out there? They know this sort of behavior from self-pubbers, they look out for it, and it turns them rabid. You're riding on someone's coattails, and it's considered a cheap shot. Just a friendly heads up.


Ha ha! Thank you for the warning, but I was just kidding, of course! (I've actually seen reviews like that on Amazon. They don't come across very well!)

I might review something here and there, but only when the fancy strikes, which isn't very often ... I don't really have a financial interest, since my books don't sell anyway, so I'm free to be perfectly honest!  I can't help but dwell on the _good_ books, however: the bad ones I'd rather put behind me.



JRTomlin said:


> Yeah, but I will guarantee you, Atunah, that the one with a 5, 4, and couple of 3 and a 1 star review can't buy sponsorships on influential sites which often mean hundreds and possibly thousands of sales. That doesn't mean YOU shouldn't give an honest review, but coming from another author... it is a whole different situation.


Just thought I'd reply to this one, too, even though it's not directed to me! It's not our fault that those sites are so corrupt, or not "corrupt" ... maybe "innocent" is the word? I presume you're talking about POI and ENT, etc? I don't understand how the people who run those sites can even now (with all these review scandals erupting everywhere) demand with a straight face that only books with 4-star ratings shall qualify for promotional opportunities that result in, as you say, "hundreds and possibly thousands of sales!" As if authors won't do anything they can to position their books for such opportunities ... Truly, do the administrators of these book websites not understand how their selection criteria are contributing to the destruction of the credibility of Amazon's review system? I'm sure these are savvy Internet people -- they must have _some_ idea what's been going on!

In any case, should we now have to consider that our consumer reviews don't merely affect "the bottom line" in the sense that they might indirectly dissuade some negligible number of readers from clicking the buy button, but by preventing the book from even appearing before the consideration of some august pantheon that decides the fate of indie books?

Such power we readers now wield! Just by leaving a negative review on a book, I can rob that book of hundreds, even thousands of sales! What a ridiculous pantomime of a "marketplace" we e-authors are creating for ourselves! It's made to be gamed.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Shelley Altamont said:


> Just thought I'd reply to this one, too, even though it's not directed to me! It's not our fault that those sites are so corrupt, or not "corrupt" ... maybe "innocent" is the word? I presume you're talking about POI and ENT, etc? I don't understand how the people who run those sites can even now (with all these review scandals erupting everywhere) demand with a straight face that only books with 4-star ratings shall qualify for promotional opportunities that result in, as you say, "hundreds and possibly thousands of sales!" As if authors won't do anything they can to position their books for such opportunities ... Truly, do the administrators of these book websites not understand how their selection criteria are contributing to the destruction of the credibility of Amazon's review system? I'm sure these are savvy Internet people -- they must have _some_ idea what's been going on!
> 
> In any case, should we now have to consider that our consumer reviews don't merely affect "the bottom line" in the sense that they might indirectly dissuade some negligible number of readers from clicking the buy button, but by preventing the book from even appearing before the consideration of some august pantheon that decides the fate of indie books?
> 
> Such power we readers now wield! Just by leaving a negative review on a book, I can rob that book of hundreds, even thousands of sales! What a ridiculous pantomime of a "marketplace" we e-authors are creating for ourselves! It's made to be gamed.


I can't really DO a consumer review.

I am an author. My reviews are in a totally different category. I will repeat one more time: since I can't afford to do honest reviews, I don't review at all.

Do I think that ENT and POI should reconsider their policy? Probably, but I suspect they believe their current system is working for them so why should they change it. However, _WE E-AUTHORS_ did not CREATE the marketplace whether a pantomime or not (and I confess I have no _clue_ what the heck a "pantomime of a marketplace" is). It is what it is. We just deal with it the best that we can. Thanks for attacking me for an honest opinion though. This kind of _shows_ why I don't review.


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## Shelley Altamont (Apr 3, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> I can't really DO a consumer review.
> 
> I am an author. My reviews are in a totally different category. I will repeat one more time: since I can't afford to do honest reviews, I don't review at all.
> 
> Do I think that ENT and POI should reconsider their policy? Probably. But WE E-AUTHORS did not CREATE the marketplace whether a pantomime or not (and I confess I have no _clue_ what the heck a "pantomime of a marketplace" is). It is what it is. We just deal with it the best that we can. Thanks for attacking me for an honest opinion though. This kind of _shows_ why I don't review.


Oh wow, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was attacking you, I thought I was attacking those book sites. (And I was speaking more as a consumer than an "e-author.")

In any case, please accept my apologies. I truly meant nothing negative against you! I give you 5 stars! 

I enjoy reading all these threads, but I really have to stop posting around here, I'm too fucking obnoxious.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Sorry. You weren't really attacking me. Your tone just hit a nerve. I was about to retract that part of my comment. 

Please don't stop posting. I was the one being obnoxious. Making an argument isn't the same as attacking me and I apologize for saying so.

ETA: I can understand you posting as a consumer. I am just always aware that any reviews I are not seen as coming from a consumer nor do I look at POI and ENT in the same light as consumers. I may disagree with them, but that is always tainted by self-interest.


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## John Daulton (Feb 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I use to review books. I thought I was helping my fellow authors out and helping readers find good books. I know readers liked my reviews, because I always posted them on my own site as well and would get sales through my affiliate links. My reviews were detailed and honest and pointed out good and bad in the book. My general rule of thumb was that anything that would have been less than three stars, I would write the review, send it to the author privately, and give the author the option for me not to post it. I thought I was being fair.
> 
> But then I would end up with "reviews" on my books that used almost the identical language I used in a negative review that I didn't post. I lost countless hours fighting with Amazon to get retaliatory reviews removed. I would get obscenity-laden emails sometimes over THREE STAR reviews. I had someone yell at me for a four-star review once because "all my other reviews are five stars and now you F'd up my average."
> 
> ...


Hmm, I've been sending private emails to the people whose books I couldn't give good reviews to, rather than post publicly. While I admit I wondered if even my very careful attempts at tact and professionalism might be taken wrong by some hothead, it never occurred to me that it could go to that extreme. Just goes to prove the old "No good deed goes unpunished," thing. Still, I have to wonder, do we stop helping each other out as writers for fear of the small percentage of psychos, or do we maybe have to find a more careful way to select whose work we decide to review? If we do try to choose more carefully, how would we do that? It seems a shame to let the d**chebags ruin peer review for everyone. But then, who's going to risk their own shot at success to be nice, if niceness gets slapped down? (sigh)


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

These threads are so disheartening. I love reviewing books. I enjoy the interaction I have with other readers and writers because of reviews I've written. It upsets me that there is a sense of impropriety surrounding reviews and that there seems to be a stigma against writers reviewing. I was a reader long before I ever decided to become a writer and I don't believe being a writer impacts my ability to give honest reviews whatsoever. I tend not to finish books I dislike, and I don't review those--I'm very finicky. I'm sure someone will say that I'm gaming my reviews so that I don't leave negative ones, but I don't believe that's the case. I think it's unfair to leave a review after giving up within a chapter, which is what I usually happens with books I don't like.

I think a big part of the problem here is the idea that a negative review means the book is bad. That is completely, absolutely not the case. I don't have to like every book I read, neither do you. We don't even have to like the same books. For the life of me I can't get past the first couple of pages of _The Hunger Games_, does that mean it's a bad book? Absolutely not. It means I don't like it, that's all. I'm sure it's a fine book and I dig the idea behind the story, but I just can't read first person present tense. That's my problem, not the book's, not the author's. Sometimes a negative review is just a reader and a writer that don't see eye-to-eye, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Is there a chance I'll get review bombed someday by an author who takes something I say about their book personally? I suppose so, but I'm not worried about it. I worry about my own ethics and my professionalism, that's all.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

John Daulton said:


> Hmm, I've been sending private emails to the people whose books I couldn't give good reviews to, rather than post publicly. While I admit I wondered if even my very careful attempts at tact and professionalism might be taken wrong by some hothead, it never occurred to me that it could go to that extreme. Just goes to prove the old "No good deed goes unpunished," thing. Still, I have to wonder, do we stop helping each other out as writers for fear of the small percentage of psychos, or do we maybe have to find a more careful way to select whose work we decide to review? If we do try to choose more carefully, how would we do that? It seems a shame to let the d**chebags ruin peer review for everyone. But then, who's going to risk their own shot at success to be nice, if niceness gets slapped down? (sigh)


I pretty much wait to be asked. If someone wants help, I am happy to give it, but a lot of people only resent it.


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## Cheryl M. (Jan 11, 2011)

swolf said:


> Yes.


Bwahahahaha! Love it!

As for the question, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that writers should never review books,_ especially_ in their own genre.

Sure, you can have an opinion. We all do. But as a writer, it just doesn't look good. Most sites that offer reviews don't police themselves. Amazon, B&N, etc. They're just bad at it. They take action when they find out about something but for the most part, they don't go around looking for it. They wait for the complaint to come in. Because of all the negative actions of authors, honest authors suffer. Sad but a fact of life.

Not to mention it's not worth pissing off another author. We all know negative reviews hurt. It doesn't matter if you respond or care or whatever. You're not human if you don't feel a twinge of _something_ when someone hates your work. And this is such a small business. Indy publishing is obviously more insulated but still. What if, somewhere down the line, you meet that author? Or might need/want something from that author? Or might love something else they've done and reach out to them only to find your hand slapped?

You can say that those things would only make you realize that they aren't the person you thought they would be. It's easy to lay the blame off on them but you also can't pretend that those things don't affect people. They may be the nicest person in the world and so might you but it's not a crime to choose not to associate with someone that publicly told people you suck, no matter how nicely you did it.

I dunno. To me, reviewing books is too much like asking all authors out there that you may or may not review to separate you, the reviewer, from you, the author. That's never going to happen because you aren't. If you left a bad review on a book of mine, I wouldn't want to work with you. Ever. So you could forget about anthologies, conventions, blurbs, cross-marketing, etc. I would not be mean or rude; I would simply politely decline to have my name anywhere near yours.

Not to mention what it looks like to readers.

I don't review other writers. I did before I started writing (well, honestly, I only wrote maybe 2 - I tend to only be motivated to review when I something is truly awful or OMGit'ssogoodyoucan'tbelieveit) and I deleted them once I started writing.

I say choose class over telling readers your opinion of books you've read. If it's bad, it's not like someone else won't review it and say so. Let someone else say it. I stick it in the same category as responding to reviews. Don't. It just seems to me that needing to get your opinion out, warn other readers, or any other reason a person reviews isn't worth it. Forget about authors behaving badly and just think about all the review scams out there. That alone is enough to make me just not do it when I have something in the same industry.

I've worked in most aspects of the entertainment industry (music, film, and now publishing), and in each one, the prevailing ideology is be careful what you say and do. You never know when you're burning the wrong bridge until you need to cross it. The gopher you yell at today might be your boss next year. It's too small a world to think what you say or do won't be remembered by someone.


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## John Daulton (Feb 28, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> I pretty much wait to be asked. If someone wants help, I am happy to give it, but a lot of people only resent it.


I have been doing a few reviews by request. But now I'm thinking that could be a bad idea. On principle, I think it's important for the writing community to work together, either to review well, which helps promote, or, if it can't be reviewed well, to provide honest feed back that includes the insights of a fellow writer. But if the risk of retribution is high, then something else needs to be done. I was actually kicking around the idea of a writer's collective or something on that front. Maybe I'll resurrect that idea at some point. Only allow writers who are truly of the professional mindset in, carefully vetted somehow, and then we could exchange reviews.


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## Shelley Altamont (Apr 3, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> Sorry. You weren't really attacking me. Your tone just hit a nerve. I was about to retract that part of my comment.
> 
> Please don't stop posting. I was the one being obnoxious. Making an argument isn't the same as attacking me and I apologize for saying so.
> 
> ETA: I can understand you posting as a consumer. I am just always aware that any reviews I do are not seen as coming from a consumer nor do I look at POI and ENT in the same light as consumers. I may disagree with them, but that is always tainted by self-interest.


Thank you, that makes me feel a little better! My tone always hits a nerve, though, trust me; I have a way of pissing people off ...

Personally, I've given up on Amazon reviews. For the most part, even good ones aren't much more than a sentence or two of gobbledygook. There are some fantastic reviewers at Amazon, and whenever I find one, I page through some of their reviews, just for the pleasure of reading a good review ... but they're becoming drowned out by noise, unfortunately.

In any case, I'd rather get detailed, insightful reviews from people who _don't_ post them to Amazon. That way there's no "appearance" of anything, just a good old-fashioned review like the ones you used to see in your local newspaper!


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> If you only write good reviews for fellow authors it seems kind of similar, it is, in a way, also deceitful.


I don't write reviews. But if I did, they would all be good. I stop reading bad books, and I'm not going to review a book I didn't finish. There is no deceit involved.

[I only read the OP.]


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheryl M. said:


> As for the question, MY PERSONAL OPINION is that writers should never review books,_ especially_ in their own genre.
> 
> Sure, you can have an opinion. We all do. But as a writer, it just doesn't look good.


I see writers giving other writers reviews all the time. I agree that it's not wise to give a bad review, but if I genuinely love a book, whether it's in my genre or not, I will post a rave review. Not a gushing review mind you, but a thoughtful and specific review detailing why I thought the book worked so well. These are the types of reviews I look for where it's obvious the person has read the book.

I'm a writer because I love to read, and I read widely across many genres. Writers are readers too, it's important that they have a voice. Besides, if writers stop reviewing, it will be that much more difficult to get reviews!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Shelley Altamont said:


> Thank you, that makes me feel a little better! My tone always hits a nerve, though, trust me; I have a way of pissing people off ...
> 
> Personally, I've given up on Amazon reviews. For the most part, even good ones aren't much more than a sentence or two of gobbledygook. There are some fantastic reviewers at Amazon, and whenever I find one, I page through some of their reviews, just for the pleasure of reading a good review ... but they're becoming drowned out by noise, unfortunately.
> 
> In any case, I'd rather get detailed, insightful reviews from people who _don't_ post them to Amazon. That way there's no "appearance" of anything, just a good old-fashioned review like the ones you used to see in your local newspaper!


I can have a tone that hits nerves too, so I understand entirely.

My novels seem to get a number of lengthy and fairly thoughtful and in-depth reviews. Even the ones I disagree with are mostly intelligent. I rarely get reviews that are pure gobbledegook. I didn't realize it was that unusual. I guess I'm lucky.


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## Shelley Altamont (Apr 3, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> My novels seem to get a number of lengthy and fairly thoughtful and in-depth reviews. Even the ones I disagree with are mostly intelligent. I rarely get reviews that are pure gobbledegook. I didn't realize it was that unusual. I guess I'm lucky.


You probably have some great readers then! 

I was exaggerating with "gobbledygook," anyway -- just referring to the fact that so many Amazon reviews seem to boil down to nothing more than "I like/dislike this book." Which tells me nothing about whether I might like or dislike it myself!

My own work got terrible to middling reviews at Amazon due to two giveaways I did at LibraryThing and Select. I attracted downloaders who were unprepared for the type of writing that I do. Apparently, I miscalculated how to categorize and tag my books. Which is my own fault, of course! 

I'm currently trying to get reviews from people who specifically might be interested in what I do, and as I said earlier, I'd rather they _not_ be posted to Amazon, if only to relieve the economic pressure. (Plus, I'm interested in finding ways around the algorithm system. It seems healthier to drive sales through external recommendations than through Amazon's mysterious formulas -- you never know where you stand with those guys. Also, external sources could potentially drive sales to other stores. Although, I'm aware that some Nook/Kobo shoppers do their searching and browsing on Amazon before heading back to their ereader's HQ to make the purchase!)


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> Could be that you're familiar with readers in an entirely different genre as Atunah, Mr. Wolf. Because she and I have favored genres in common, and you'd better believe the readers in those genres are ticked off at self-pubbers leaving only friendly, non-critical reviews. It doesn't matter that you leave reviews on Indies that are not critical because you don't feel like that's something you should do, and save your readerly ire for the TPubs. That's not how your reviews would be interpreted, not by the readers Atunah and I are familiar with.


And how many readers are that? 20? 100? 500? Even that's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people buying books on Amazon. Most Amazon readers don't hang out on readers' forums, so they aren't exposed to the type of information you and Atunah are. I don't mean to disparage them, because they're just as important as every other reader, but I'm not going to change my strategy based on that small sampling, whether it's them directly, or those proporting to represent them here.

I see very little downside in posting only positive reviews of other indie authors. Sure, perhaps your cadre of readers doesn't like that, but I find it hard to believe that any more than a very small percentage of readers actually see one of my reviews and then go off and research my review history.

On the other hand, a reader may see my name on a review, recognize it from something they read of mine, and then buy the book I gave a positive review to. Or it may work the other way, and they may buy a book I positively reviewed, and then remember my name later when they come across a book of mine. I believe the upside of that outweighs any potential downside.

However, If I'm out there positing negative reviews, especially in my genre, I could be perceived as someone who is either petty, or attempting to undermine other indie authors. Not something I want to be a part of.

Plus the fact I really don't want to say negative things about people who I consider to be in the same boat as me. I really do believe that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that in the long run, other indie authors' success will benefit me also.



T.L. Haddix said:


> She is not a writer, but she is a reader. As in, the hand that feeds? You know, a customer? So by the very nature of her not being a writer, but instead being a consumer, one could argue that her word carries more weight in this argument than any of ours. And if you're so concerned by leaving negative or critical reviews on Indies, or having backlash that hurts the bottom line, perhaps not leaving reviews at all would solve your dilemma entirely.


Yes, she's a reader. I appreciate that. And I give her opinion as much weight as I do all the other readers. But I'm not going to change what I believe is the right thing to do based upon one reader's opinion. Just like I don't pull my books down because one reviewer accused me of writing child porn.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Shelley Altamont said:


> You probably have some great readers then!
> 
> I was exaggerating with "gobbledygook," anyway -- just referring to the fact that so many Amazon reviews seem to boil down to nothing more than "I like/dislike this book." Which tells me nothing about whether I might like or dislike it myself!
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think part of it is that readers of historical fiction tend to be-- let's say _not_ the lowest common denominator. 

I've been lucky with giveaways rarely causing terribly bad reviews although I do think it caused some 3-star ones, but that could be worse. I'd love to find a way around the algorithm system and a way to drive sales through external sources, but wow is that not easy.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

I rarely write reviews, these days, but it has nothing to do with controversy. I just don't have time to make a habit of it.

Still, when I read a book that really does it for me, I'll set aside the time and review it. Where I post the review depends on how I bought the book, though now that I have a blog up and running, that's the most likely venue. But if it seemed appropriate, I'd also post it to Amazon or B&N, etc. 

As for giving a bad review, as someone else said, if I dislike a book enough that it would get only a couple of stars from me, I probably turned it in at the used book exchange where I live, rather than wasting further time on it.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Wow. Who knew that the simple act of giving your opinion of a book could be so... dangerous?

Personally I have no problem leaving critical reviews of books I didn't enjoy. I don't understand the "leave only good review" mindset. If I have a product and it either doesn't work or falls short of expectations, I see nothing wrong with leaving that feedback.

FTR, I agree with Shelly Altamont who said *no*, we are _not_ in 'competition' with same-genre' authors, like cereal brands. As Shelly noted, people stick with a cereal brand(s) week-in and week-out, whereas they read one book and after that, they read another one. Books are not an "either/or" thing: just because someone buys my book doesn't mean they'll never buy yours.

Also, do people feel there is any distinction of leaving reviews for traditionally published books vs e-books? Reviews I've posted are for trad-pubbed books, released in paperback or hardcopy.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> I agree with Shelly Altamont who said no, we are not in 'competition' with same-genre' authors, like cereal brands.


Products are in competition every time a consumer chooses one product from a selection of many. The products compete for that specific dollar from that specific consumer on that specific day. One product wins that specific competition. All others lose.


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

Yep, as a writer and a reviewer, you should be allowed to write negative reviews and be mature enough to take them. And that's the problem. There are a few (and I think they are in the minority) writers who take negative reviews hard and bash the reviewer in return, particularly if the individual is another author.

Note that I'm not talking about backlash against poorly written reviews or reviews that seem intent on bashing the book and writer, or reviews that clearly show the author either hasn't really read the book from beginning to end. My point is that sometimes the lines are murky, but professionals find a way to rise above it and move on, and yes, I've had 1 and 2-star reviews! It's okay. Life really does goes on.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> Products are in competition every time a consumer chooses one product from a selection of many. The products compete for that specific dollar from that specific consumer on that specific day. One product wins that specific competition. All others lose.


For that specific moment, yes, one wins, and others lose. But unlike cereal, once a person buys "Book A," they don't buy it again the next day or the next week or the next month; it's "one and done." Luckily there's no buying limit for books, so all our books have some chance. 
Again, just because someone buys your book doesn't mean they'll never buy mine.


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## MegSilver (Feb 26, 2012)

At this point, I'm thinking if there were still writers out there who didn't freak out on reviewer or other writers, what would we do for entertainment?


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> It's always risky for authors to review because there can be retaliation. It has happened to me more on Goodreads than on Amazon where people can just give a rating without explaining why. On a couple of occasions I gave critical reviews and within 24 hours a couple of my books garnered 3 or 4 one-star ratings with no review. When I looked, all of them came from friends of the author whose book I had just reviewed. You have to decide if you want to chance it.


Perhaps you should annotate each of those: "This one-star rating is retaliation for a critical review I gave a bad book: [IT'S NAME] by [AUTHOR NAME]." The writer will soon force his "friends" into retracting.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> For that specific moment, yes, one wins, and others lose. But unlike cereal, once a person buys "Book A," they don't buy it again the next day or the next week or the next month; it's "one and done." Luckily there's no buying limit for books, so all our books have some chance.
> Again, just because someone buys your book doesn't mean they'll never buy mine.


I don't care about cereal, so I'll stick with books.

Competition does not include the requirement that one product is never purchased by a specific consumer. That may be a result of competition, but is certainly not a necessary condition.

Successful competitors win more of those specific consumer buying decisions. Unsuccessful competitors win fewer.


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

Authors often forget that reviews are meant for readers/buyers. The best that readers (and authors) should hope for is an honest review, 'bad' or 'good' should not come into it.

Joe


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## Shane Murray (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone, it is good to get a heads up before I publish myself!

Very sad to hear about some of the nightmare stories from people posting what they considered honest reviews. With so many people self publishing I guess it is unlikely that they will have an editor to urge them professional restraint.

I pride myself on my honesty, however this has come back to bite me in the past, and if I am going to go into writing even semi-seriously it seems like it would be in my best interests to review nothing.

I will give up on reviews entirely, I might even go so far as to delete all my reviews before I publish my first book.

The internet is just another big school yard I suppose, whether it is on Amazon reviews or elsewhere people are still crying "I know you are so what am I" kind of dribble...


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

T.L. Haddix said:


> NO!!!  Kidding, kidding. Well, not really. But teasing, definitely.


I realize that came as a shock.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm of two minds about this.  I've started two types of reviews on my blog.  In one, I judge the quality of the males present in the novel.  I try not to say too much bad about the book, but I am very clear about my standards for judging.  And it should be clear that my standards aren't everyone's standards.  Even so, I feel a little uneasy about it at times, even when I try to be humorous about it.  But I still do it because I feel it serves a point and benefit to readers.
  
Long point short, I think you have to take into consideration why you want to review and why you want to give a bad review.  If it is just because you are angry at the book, it's best to just rant privately or on a blog.  If you really want to warn other readers about some flaws, make sure your review is objective.  Meaning, don't call a book trash.  But be specific.  Say the book slowed down for XX pages while Y happened.  That way, if someone else likes that kinda thing, they can read it.  Don't condemn different tastes; rather simply couch it all in terms that you don't like A and A happened in this book.  And so on.

Just my 2 cents.

Jodi


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

MegSilver said:


> At this point, I'm thinking if there were still writers out there who didn't freak out on reviewer or other writers, what would we do for entertainment?


We'd probably have to write even MORE books than we already are! LOL


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## GlennGamble (Sep 15, 2011)

Shane Murray said:


> Reading a thread on here http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,125189.0.html, which is bashing an author for giving his competition fake bad reviews. This is obviously unethical, but from the tone of the posts there seems to be the opinion that authors are *not allowed* to give bad reviews to fellow authors.
> 
> I am certain that authors on here have given fellow authors positive reviews before, but how about bad ones? If you only write good reviews for fellow authors it seems kind of similar, it is, in a way, also deceitful. Obviously the intent in giving a good review is different, but if you genuinely don't like a book, why can't you say so?
> 
> ...


That's totally up to you. If you can deal with the consequences of giving the wrong author 1-star, then by all means go ahead. Not everyone can deal with the subsequent actions of an idiot who got 1-starred and becomes your worst nightmare.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2012)

To me, reviewing other people's books just means I'm not a successful writer.


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## Marc Johnson (Feb 25, 2011)

If you want to write reviews, good or bad, then by all means go ahead.

I write reviews and I've written bad ones. I've never had an author attack me for it. I have had Goodreads and Twitter messages from authors saying, "There were formatting problems?" or "Sorry, you didn't like it." I've gotten into some good discussions with them but most of the time, my reviews are met with silence.

In real life, I'm a sarcastic smartass. In my reviews, I don't type them as I speak. I'll list both good things and bad things in my reviews, whether they're a 5 star or a 1 star, and I never get personal because I don't know the person. Maybe it's my analytical mind or maybe it's because I used to review things and get paid for it so I have experience. I don't know.

I think the problem is a lot of reviews don't analyze anything. If they're bad, they attack the person who created it and compare it to something else instead of focusing on the work and what went wrong and where. If they're great, they can't get into specifics or formulate words into why they like it or why it made them feel.

When it comes to reviews, I don't pay attention to stars. I only pay attention to length and for me, they have to be a good size paragraph or paragraphs analyzing why.


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## journeymama (May 30, 2011)

IMHO, Often being a writer happens second- being a reader comes first. If you love books, you love to talk about them- you want to vent if an author you love delivers something you don't like, or vice versa! It seems that the rule should be to be sure that you are genuinely _reviewing_, not only throwing stars around. Reviewing books is an old form of writing! It's fun and interesting- flaming books isn't, I don't think.

The same standards of quality that you put into your book authoring should be in your review. Negative or positive.

I'm shocked to hear about the genre rules on Amazon reviews- I haven't been reviewing books so much on Amazon since I published, mostly because I don't have time (have to write). But my genre is Literary Fiction- it's kind of a big genre and I'd say 90% of the books I read fall into this category- am I really not allowed to write reviews about the genre that interests me? This seems restrictive and not in a good way. Hmmm.


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## journeymama (May 30, 2011)

BTW, my go-to method of dealing with a bad review that stings is reading the reviews of some of my favorite books and seeing the similar reviews. Many of my favorite books get a love it or hate it review from readers, which seems to be what my books provokes, because of difficult characters, and it's always soothing to see fellow authors getting the same response. (They're not competition, they're inspiration!)


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Shane Murray said:


> Reading a thread on here http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,125189.0.html, which is bashing an author for giving his competition fake bad reviews. This is obviously unethical, but from the tone of the posts there seems to be the opinion that authors are *not allowed* to give bad reviews to fellow authors.
> 
> I am certain that authors on here have given fellow authors positive reviews before, but how about bad ones? If you only write good reviews for fellow authors it seems kind of similar, it is, in a way, also deceitful. Obviously the intent in giving a good review is different, but if you genuinely don't like a book, why can't you say so?
> 
> ...


A controversial topic in the WC, always, to be sure.

Many here believe if you're an author, keep your grubby opinions to yourself, because they'll always be questioning your motives. If you say you like something, it's because you know the writer, or you were paid, or they reviewed you, or a thousand other accusations...

If you say you dislike something, it's because you're mean, petty, trying to cut down the competition, out to boost yourself, or a thousand other accusations.

Others here believe it's okay to do whatever you want, for any reason... even if you ARE showing favoritism or ARE out to hurt someone else.

Well, everyone has an opinion. That's each person's right.

Here's mine:

I was a reader for many, many years before I became published or self-published or any of that.

And I was in the habit of reviewing books I finished, mostly because my journalism career (back when I was in that game) taught me to review stuff... movies, albums, TV shows, books, whatever. I became pretty good at giving a semi-intelligent, semi-coherent review.

In fact, one of the last side-jobs I had that I allowed to keep me away from personal writing time, that I gave up about three years ago, was being a reviewer of videogames. I think I probably reviewed over 200 videogames over a stretch of about eight years or so... before my wife finally said, "Why are you doing this instead of writing your own fiction?"

Anyway, the point is, I've been so trained to give my opinion on stuff, it just comes naturally to me. And I've never seen a review as anything more than that: one person's opinion.

So, I review most books that I read to completion. If I don't finish, I don't give an opinion. Books that are painfully bad, I never finish. Also, I have such a huge TBR list, I'll probably never get to all of them. Such is life.

Anyway, whether I post it on one of my blogs or Goodreads or Amazon or here, yes, I review the books I read.

Here's my deal, though, that works for me: I don't accept review copies from anyone. I don't review by request. I look out there and find what I like, or think I'll like, and if I buy it and read it, I'll offer up my opinion on it when I'm done... somewhere. That's more or less how I approach it.

When I first found Kindle and KB and all this was new to me, and before I had published anything of my own, I started reading and reviewing a lot of indie novels. Some have become friends. Some are just folks I see on here whose writing I admire. Some I barely know, but their books appeal to me. It varies.

I feel comfortable having a precedent for doing this: Charlaine Harris reviews two books per blog entry on the "Book and Blog" section of her author's website.

So, I look at it this way: I didn't magically transform into another person the first time I hit "Publish" on KDP. I'm still the same person.

So when I offer up an opinion on my blog, or Amazon, or Goodreads, or here, or wherever I post... It's because I finished something I read to completion and I'm sharing my thoughts on it.

But I'm acting as a reader, at that point, just as I did before I was published.

And believe me, it's a lot better than reviewing videogames; when SquareEnix sends you a free $60 videogame, if you don't give it at least a 7 out of 10, they threaten to never send you anything, ever again.

So this is WAY more comfortable than that. I almost always review stuff I would have bought anyway, most of which I did buy, even if I got it during a "free day" off Amazon.

And lately, I'm balancing out a bit more, reading trad-pubs AND indies, and reviewing whatever I finish.

Why? Because I'd be doing it anyway.

I have no agenda, other than being a reader. Stuff I hate, I tend not to review, because I never finish it. Stuff I finish, therefore, usually fares somewhat well with me, because at least I liked it enough to read it all the way through.

And I hate star-rating systems, because it's an excuse for people to look at that and never read the review. I've had some people claim I'm harder on books I like than books I finished but wasn't wild about. I guess I expect more of the books I really enjoy.

But distilling a bunch of impressions down to a 5-star system is, to me, kinda pointless, so I only use stars when I'm posting my thoughts to a system (like Amazon or Goodreads) that requires stars be awarded.

I'd much rather people interested in what I think just read the whole review. 

Anyway, those are my thoughts on it. I'm not a professional book reviewer; I don't make my living that way. I'm just a reader with an opinion, no better or worse than anyone else's. Becoming an author myself doesn't change that.

But I'm sure there are those who assume the worst and will scream bloody murder over it. Let 'em, I guess... that's their opinion and they're entitled to it, too. I won't let that change me, though. Because once I let it change me, then who am I?


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## John Daulton (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm trying to find where it says we can't review anything in genres we write in. I vaguely recall having seen that. I'd like to read it again. And, what counts as "the genre" we write in? If I write sci-fi>action does that mean I can't review sci-fi > action, or I can't review any sci-fi of any kind?  If I write a horror romance does that mean I can't review any horror AND I can't review any romance?  As I recall, it seems like the TOS said something like "we prefer you don't review" not "we forbid it."  So, I'd like to look again, and I can't find it. Did it change or am I just inept at search?


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## Vera R. (Jun 13, 2011)

This thread reminds me of a situation I'm in. I do leave book reviews for fellow authors (not under my name and they don't know it's me leaving the review). The vast majority of my reviews are high, 4-5 star reviews. It's rare that I leave a 1-2 star review. I rather just not leave a review at that point. Some of them I review on Amazon, others I review on Goodreads under my personal account. 

One of my fellow author friends asked me to read and review her book. Her book, in short, was god-awful. From the spelling and grammatical issues, to the storyline and plot development, just horrible. Because of my strong feelings towards her fiction, I told her privately what I thought (I did use constructive criticism so I didn't nail her to the wall) but I wasn't going to say all of that in a review. 

For me, it's a case-by-case basis. But I won't intentionally bad-mouth or tear down a fellow author because we're 'competition.' I guess I'm unique in the sense of when I read an author who writes better, it encourages me to write better as well.  *shrugs*


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## MartinGibbs (Jun 20, 2011)

DanielJamesDavis said:


> I don't think that the issue is so much an issue with the fact that an author is giving a review, persay.
> 
> It's that there are authors out there who aren't reading the books they are reviewing- they are selecting books from rival authors and putting down *fake* reviews, in order to sully what they consider the competition, and thus, in their minds, elevate their own work.
> 
> ...


I'm a little late to this thread, but this is how I feel. I've left everything from one to 5 stars on books, but always tried to keep an objective viewpoint, highlight where things could be improved, etc. Each time I left something less than three stars, I worried about any retribution, but it goes with the territory. If the general goal of the writing community is to better itself and improve, then we should all embrace the negative critique.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

T.L. Haddix said:


> Yeah. You said that, and then you agreed with Craig in another thread. Maybe I need to go buy a lottery ticket.


Better hurry. I've agreed with Craig twice which means the apocalypse is nigh.

*sigh* One of my first reviews was from an author who is both very successful and a member of this forum. I can assure you that that (and his later recommendations) did not hurt my sales. Would he do that now under the current circumstances? Maybe, but I suspect he'd at least hesitate. I don't see ANY of this helping us.

I HATE what all this is doing to the writers' community and incidentally to WC.


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

Kwalker said:


> If the book is truly bad I don't finish reading, therefore I don't feel capable of giving a honest review.


I'm the same. I just don't have the time to finish reading bad books. If a book doesn't deserve at least 3 stars, I'd be extremely unlikely to ever finish it. I guess I could imagine an otherwise strong book with a horrible ending getting a bad review from me, but otherwise I'm not likely to give books less than 3 stars.


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## BarbraAnnino (Jan 27, 2011)

Shane Murray said:


> This is obviously unethical, but from the tone of the posts there seems to be the opinion that authors are *not allowed* to give bad reviews to fellow authors.
> 
> Obviously the intent in giving a good review is different, but if you genuinely don't like a book, why can't you say so?


First, ask yourself why you would feel compelled to give a negative review _as an author _to another author. Because once you enter this realm, either self-published or traditional, that's the mindset you have to approach business decisions with. And if you are selling books, any decision you make regarding books is a business decision--including reviews and blurbs. You're not a reader anymore in the all-seeing eyes of the internet--you're a writer.

For me, I can't think of a single reason to leave a negative review on a book I have read cover to cover. It helps no one, except perhaps the reviewer's ego. Because if a book is that bad--deserving 1 or 2 stars--why would you finish it? Personally, I don't have the time to waste reading a book I don't like. And no one should review a book they don't finish.

Most books I purchase (or get free) that I don't finish is simply because they don't strike my taste buds. Doesn't mean they are bad. Means I didn't care for it, much like art. It's objective. The _samples _tell me if the book is bad. If that's the case, I don't download it at all.

So why would you leave a negative review? 
~Honesty? Honesty is how you respond when someone specifically asks your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions.
~To protect the reader? If the book is truly bad, others will have left bad reviews. You don't need to worry about warning the reader.

Publishing is a really small world. If you're an author making a career out of this, you're likely to run into authors at conferences, events, in forums, chats, in collaborations, etc...

So before leaving a bad review--ask yourself one other question. Could I look this guy in the eye, shake his hand at a cocktail party and tell him how much I hated his book?

If the answer is yes, by all means, charge on and sign your name.


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

NoahMullette-Gillman said:


> I'm the same. I just don't have the time to finish reading bad books. If a book doesn't deserve at least 3 stars, I'd be extremely unlikely to ever finish it. I guess I could imagine an otherwise strong book with a horrible ending getting a bad review from me, but otherwise I'm not likely to give books less than 3 stars.


Exactly! I have a couple of books I've rated 1-2 stars, only because I was assigned them for a class, so I *had* to read them all the way through. I also state right there in the review that I was assigned the book for a class and likely wouldn't have finished it under normal circumstances. I don't waste my time on books I don't like. If a book is _terrible_, like bad grammar, typo-ridden terrible, I won't even download them. I always check the preview first.


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## RuthMadison (Jul 9, 2011)

I review other books in my genre. I want my readers to know that they can come to me for an honest list of books that they may like.

When I leave a negative review, I'm usually very polite about it and most of the time explain that a book that I didn't like doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't like it. Unless it's something above and beyond horrible (if people use crass stereotypes about disability with zero research, then watch out because I will call you out on it).

I leave many positive reviews, I leave reviews where I felt luke-warm about the books, and I leave reviews if the books had major problems.

I want other books in my genre to be good. I honestly do. There's not that many of them out there and my readers are hungry for more books than I can produce. I think they value that I will assess books for them and let them know which other ones they might enjoy.

So far I have not found this to be a problem. It helps, I think, that I am not just leaving negative comments for the sake of being negative, but leaving very detailed reviews with a lot of explanation for what I thought of the book. I always list exactly what I like and what I don't like and why. It's hard to say I'm being catty if the reason for the parts I don't like are spelled out in detail.

I rely on reviews to help me find books that I would like and I provide that for others as well. Being an expert in my field puts me in a great place to review books in my genre.

My theory of book promotion has always been that I want to lift up and encourage my fellow authors and to work together to bring readers the experience that they want. So far I've not had any problems with that. Supporting others has only done good things for me as far as I can tell.


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## Todd Young (May 2, 2011)

Personally, I've stopped reviewing altogether. When I first published, I did write a couple of reviews of my peers' work on Goodreads, and then, when I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't a reasonable thing to do. 

I decided to only review the books of established authors, but now I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to do that either.

The way I look at it is simple. I wouldn't want another author giving me a negative review, and if I'm going to be honest about reviewing, then there's going to be times when I would have to write a negative review, so I just don't do it.


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## RuthMadison (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm not going to apologize for this review:

http://www.ruthmadison.com/monday-book-review-sunshine/

The author had no business writing about something she knew nothing about. If I wrote something that horrible, then yeah, someone should slap me upside the head.

Usually my reviews are more like this:

http://www.ruthmadison.com/monday-book-review-a-marriage-to-fight-for/


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## Joebruno999 (Oct 20, 2010)

Bad Karma. 

My credo is if you don't have something nice to say about someone (a book?), don't say anything at all.

What does someone prove anyway by writing a bad book  review? That they know a good book from a bad book? That they are smart (and talented) and worthy of criticizing someone of lessor talent?

I've seen guys get their noses busted by telling someone what they really think about that certain person.

I like my crooked nose the way it is.


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

RJ Parker - Author & Amazon Top Reviewer said:


> As a top reviewer for Amazon and out of respect for fellow writers, I never give a bad review.


This is the worst hypocrisy. The subtext is that every writer is worthy and deserving of respect simply for being a writer or for breathing, or being able to chew gum, or something. That is untrue. A very large percentage of indies, and a good chunk of traditionally published writers, are just plain rubbish. It does the aim of improving the quality of indie literature absolutely no good to pretend that there are only good books being written. Instead, it does a lot of harm, because we stand collectively accused as passing off [email protected] as gold when it isn't even tinsel.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

RuthMadison said:


> I'm not going to apologize for this review:


And nor should you. Don't think I'll bother checking out the book...


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## RuthMadison (Jul 9, 2011)

Joebruno999 said:


> Bad Karma.
> 
> My credo is if you don't have something nice to say about someone (a book?), don't say anything at all.
> 
> ...


What you gain by writing a bad review is warning people about what they will find there. I think that's the purpose of reviews period. To help us figure out what books to read and which will be a waste of our money. I want to know those things ahead of time and really value reviews, so I will warn my readers of books that I don't think they will like.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

BarbraAnnino said:


> . . .
> 
> For me, I can't think of a single reason to leave a negative review on a book I have read cover to cover. It helps no one, except perhaps the reviewer's ego.
> . . .


What about other potential readers? _*They*_ are the target audience for reviews, after all. If a book is poorly-written, contains continuity gaps, severe POV changes that can potentially cause whiplash... I, as a potential reader, want to know that. Doesn't matter to me who wrote the review, as long as that person did indeed read the book and gives an honest assessment in the review. To say a negative review "helps no one" is a stretch, to say the least.


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## BarbraAnnino (Jan 27, 2011)

Jena H said:


> What about other potential readers? _*They*_ are the target audience for reviews, after all. If a book is poorly-written, contains continuity gaps, severe POV changes that can potentially cause whiplash... I, as a potential reader, want to know that. Doesn't matter to me who wrote the review, as long as that person did indeed read the book and gives an honest assessment in the review. To say a negative review "helps no one" is a stretch, to say the least.


I addressed this in my post. I also made it clear that I was directing my response to the OP question in the heading- writers leaving reviews for writers. Of course if you take a portion out of context and quote it to suit your opinion, you lose the original meaning.


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## Adriana Ryan (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm really divided on this. I feel like, not only does it look like sour grapes if you post bad reviews for books in your genre, but what about those authors who might retaliate with bad reviews on your book? I think I'll probably stick to reviewing books vastly outside my genre, and only posting reviews in my genre if they're good.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

BarbraAnnino said:


> I addressed this in my post. I also made it clear that I was directing my response to the OP question in the heading- writers leaving reviews for writers. Of course if you take a portion out of context and quote it to suit your opinion, you lose the original meaning.


I'm sorry. Honestly, though, I don't get the distinction. Not sure what it means to leave a review "_as an autho_r to another author." Your first sentence (in previuos comment) asks why someone would "feel compelled to give a negative review as an author to another author." I noted that reviews are not written "to the author"; they're written for the benefit of potential readers, who may appreciate an honest opinion. In any case, in the context of the OP's question: no, I do not feel that being a writer _necessarily_ means you can't give bad book reviews.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Amazon publishes the review to the whole world. It's for everyone for whatever use they choose.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Todd Young said:


> The way I look at it is simple. I wouldn't want another author giving me a negative review, and if I'm going to be honest about reviewing, then there's going to be times when I would have to write a negative review, so I just don't do it.


I'm with you. I also don't want anyone I'm acquainted with to notice that I reviewed So & So's book, and why didn't I review hers? That could be awkward if one is good and the other isn't. Just best to avoid it altogether.

My opinion about a book isn't so important that I'm willing to risk causing problems for myself to share it.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

RuthMadison said:


> I'm not going to apologize for this review:
> 
> The author had no business writing about something she knew nothing about. If I wrote something that horrible, then yeah, someone should slap me upside the head.


It's a vanity published book that looks to have never sold in hard copy and not sold much in ebook, given the almost 700,000 rank. I can't argue with your review, but I'm not sure it was necessary to warn readers away. The blurb and sample do a pretty good job of that, honestly.

If that writer decided to rally some family and friends to give all your books multiple bad reviews, what would you do? Amazon probably wouldn't remove them if you couldn't prove it. It could happen--it sometimes does happen--and I wonder if it would be worth it to give a negative (though honest and accurate, admittedly) review to something nobody's going to read anyway.


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## LKWatts (May 5, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Do what you want!
> 
> There's no Hobo Code for authors.


My thoughts exactly


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## RuthMadison (Jul 9, 2011)

shelleyo1 said:


> It's a vanity published book that looks to have never sold in hard copy and not sold much in ebook, given the almost 700,000 rank. I can't argue with your review, but I'm not sure it was necessary to warn readers away. The blurb and sample do a pretty good job of that, honestly.
> 
> If that writer decided to rally some family and friends to give all your books multiple bad reviews, what would you do? Amazon probably wouldn't remove them if you couldn't prove it. It could happen--it sometimes does happen--and I wonder if it would be worth it to give a negative (though honest and accurate, admittedly) review to something nobody's going to read anyway.


I found out about it because I saw that someone bought it following an affiliate link from my blog. It is very firmly in the subject matter that my readers are interested in and I do feel a need to vet books for them. Right or wrong, I feel very compelled to read all books I can on this subject and let my audience know whether the portrayal of disability is accurate, fantasy-based, or ludicrous.

I guess I have an overdeveloped sense of vigilante justice that isn't good for me. I just don't think it's okay to let it slide when people put nasty and horrible stereotypes about disability out into the world and try to pass themselves off as knowing something about it. Reviews are one of the only things I can do to tell people that it's not okay to write about disability without doing even a shred of research.


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## RuthMadison (Jul 9, 2011)

Although...

Now that I think about it, I don't know of any famous, household name authors who review books.

I suppose it will look strange when I become super famous


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## BarbraAnnino (Jan 27, 2011)

Jena H said:


> I'm sorry. Honestly, though, I don't get the distinction. Not sure what it means to leave a review "_as an autho_r to another author." Your first sentence (in previuos comment) asks why someone would "feel compelled to give a negative review as an author to another author." I noted that reviews are not written "to the author"; they're written for the benefit of potential readers, who may appreciate an honest opinion. In any case, in the context of the OP's question: no, I do not feel that being a writer _necessarily_ means you can't give bad book reviews.


I already addressed why I think this is a slippery slope, but I'll repeat it here.

Keep in mind this is _only _for authors who write as a career. Not a hobby, not for beer money. As a profession.

Publishing is a really small world. If you're an author making a career out of this, you're likely to run into authors at conferences, events, in forums, chats, in collaborations, etc...especially if they write in a similar genre.

So, if you were seated next to a writer you left a bad review for on a panel--would you be willing to tell him to his face your thoughts on the book? What if he asked you directly about the work or even about your review?

RJ Ellory was slated to appear at Bouchercon in October. That's the world wide crime writers convention. My guess is he may have the flu that weekend.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

RuthMadison said:


> Although...
> 
> Now that I think about it, I don't know of any famous, household name authors who review books.


As a profession, no.

But Charlaine Harris is consistently on the NYT Bestsellers List and she reviews 2-3 books per blog entry on the "Books N Blog" section of her website.

http://www.charlaineharris.com/bb/bb_current.html

You don't get more "household name" than the creator of Sookie Stackhouse/True Blood...


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

BarbraAnnino said:


> So, if you were seated next to a writer you left a bad review for on a panel--would you be willing to tell him to his face your thoughts on the book? What if he asked you directly about the work or even about your review?


I never leave unfair reviews, just my own thoughts, whenever I write a review.

So, yes, when I share my thoughts on a book I've read to completion, I'd be saying the same things to the author's face as I would if posting on my blog, Amazon, Goodreads, here, or in a group of fellow readers.

But then, I don't do overkill on either gushing praise or vitriolic hate... because when you read something to completion, it's hard to do that and be honest. The stuff I dislike enough to hate, I don't finish... and I don't review what I don't finish.

That said, I did once leave a 1-star review on a book, on Amazon.

It was because it was a purported book on serial killers (good research for a writer of my tastes) and the book was literally a cut-n-paste job from Wikipedia articles and other "public domain" sources. So I called him on it. And I'd have said the same to his face.

http://www.amazon.com/UNSOLVED-SERIAL-KILLINGS-Serial-ebook/dp/B0061V4DVO/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

Other than that, look at my post a few pages back for how I approach reviews. Not that I'm a household name, but I don't want to repeat all that.


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## Joebruno999 (Oct 20, 2010)

MegSilver said:


> Being a writer doesn't mean you can't give book reviews. Being an _author_ means your audience needs you to write books, not reviews.
> 
> Just sayin'.


You took the words right out of my mouth. (Clique?)


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## Joebruno999 (Oct 20, 2010)

RuthMadison said:


> What you gain by writing a bad review is warning people about what they will find there. I think that's the purpose of reviews period. To help us figure out what books to read and which will be a waste of our money. I want to know those things ahead of time and really value reviews, so I will warn my readers of books that I don't think they will like.
> [/I hope you have a good nose specialist.  Just kidding!
> 
> Do what you think is right.
> ...


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## Kristine McKinley (Aug 26, 2012)

This is something I've been thinking about lately and after reading this entire thread I'm not sure if I'm closer to an answer on what to do.   I don't write a lot of reviews now, just on books I absolutely love once on a book I couldn't stand. I'll probably just continue that and make sure if I do feel the need to write a negative review that I give clear reasons why I did not like the book


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## RuthMadison (Jul 9, 2011)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> As a profession, no.
> 
> But Charlaine Harris is consistently on the NYT Bestsellers List and she reviews 2-3 books per blog entry on the "Books N Blog" section of her website.
> 
> ...


Excellent!


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## BarbraAnnino (Jan 27, 2011)

My grandmother used to say, "You don't poop where you eat." Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.


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