# Is A PRAYER FOR OWEN MEANY Christian fiction, or...?



## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I have a question for whoever cares to field it.

Some folks get very sensitive whenever any aspect of any faith is brought into the fold of a novel. There are those who would seem to prefer that any novel that mentions Christianity or faith of any sort, in any way, be labelled "Christian fiction."

But is that too narrow?

When I think of Christian fiction as a category, what I think of is a brand of writing that is either completely allegorical, or that is pedantic about faith, interrupting the storyline to embed sermons and salvation messages throughout the story. (I won't get into the skill-level involved of such writers.)

But the real question I have is, isn't it possible that there's a middle category? Fiction that features Christian characters, but is not necessarily designed to covert, preach, "minister" or anything remotely like the agenda of "Christian fiction" as a category.

Now, we all can think of many novels... some of them brilliantly written... that feature Christian characters but aren't labelled "Christian" novels because they choose to portray all their faith-based characters as evil hypocrites.

But is there still room out there for a type of literature that is neither hostile in its view of faith-based characters, NOR out to convert readers.

For example... Charles Dickens' A CHRISTMAS CAROL is a wonderful piece of literature, with heavy Christian themes... but is it "evangelical" in it's approach? Would anyone say it's "Christian fiction"?

Or a more modern example... John Irving's A PRAYER FOR OWEN MEANY. Irving as a person is not someone embraced by "the religious right" or anything remotely like it, but he's a brilliant novelist and tread a very fine line with OWEN MEANY. And his opening line is very blatant about the journey it's about to take the reader on. Here it is:



> "I am doomed to remember a boy with a wrecked voice - not because of his voice, or because he was the smallest person I ever knew, or even because he was the instrument of my mother's death, but because he is the reason I believe in God; I am a Christian because of Owen Meany."


Would A PRAYER FOR OWEN MEANY be considered "Christian literature"? (I think Irving would be mighty surprised and prone to disagree.)

Or is there room for a category of fiction that contains religious themes, contains characters who believe, but where story is the focal point, not sermonizing or conversion?

Is the mere presence of such characters and themes enough to toss a book into the "Christian fiction" category? I mean... Bram Stoker's DRACULA shows vampires to be susceptible to the display of a Christian cross symbol... does that make DRACULA Christian fiction? David McAfee's 33 A.D. has Jesus as a character, but it hardly a religious novel, but a vampire thriller in a Biblical setting.

I'm just struggling with this broad brush some readers use with this category.

Is there still room for an in-between category? A type of fiction that bears none of the evangelistic earmarks of categorically Christian fiction, but which also doesn't paint all faith-based characters as evil or hypocritical, but just as living, breathing, complex people about whom faith is only one aspect of their lives?

FINAL QUESTION: Also, if a writer published one novel that has such themes, is he or she forever to be tacked with the label of a "religious writer," even when they go on to write other novels that are not focused on religious themes at all? I'm not talking about whether a writer could try to do that... John Irving wrote exactly one novel (so far, that I'm aware of) with heavy religious themes (OWEN MEANY)... so he's done it... but are there people who refuse to read Irving because OWEN MEANY had religious themes and characters?

Food for discussion, I hope.


----------



## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

To my mind, any author risks be pigeon-holed for anything he or she writes. (Imagine if Tom Clancy decided to write an urban fantasy novel or J.K. Rowling came out with a military/techno thriller?)

But in this case I think it largely depends on how the religious aspects are handled. Is there an obvious bias (for or against) the religion in question as portrayed by the author and demonstrated by the character? How important is it to the story that it be that particular religion? (E.g.: could the story essentially work as well if it were about a Buddhist in India as it would if it were about a Christian in the US, or is it something specific to Christianity that is crucial to the plot?) Are there any characters portrayed with opposing viewpoints that are portrayed just as sympathetically? (The movie "Contact" comes to mind -- I never read the book so do not know how Sagan himself portrayed the Palmer Joss character, the Christian philosopher.)


----------



## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm still contemplating Nog's answer, but here's my personal opinion...

There are two basic ways to look at genre, by theme or by formula.

By theme: a book with its MAIN theme being a religious one would classify as religious fiction of some kind, IMO. 

By formula: 'christian fiction', for example, would need to align itself with a storyline of redemption, a writing style which avoids rude words and graphic scenes of anything which may upset the reader.


----------



## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

nomesque said:


> I'm still contemplating Nog's answer, but here's my personal opinion...
> 
> There are two basic ways to look at genre, by theme or by formula.
> 
> ...


Actually, I'm glad you responded, Naomi. Have readers branded you a "religious writer" because of Maisy May? (Religious characters, but 3D ones, no evangelistic agenda necessarily.)


----------



## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

nomesque said:


> I'm still contemplating Nog's answer, but here's my personal opinion...
> ...


Don't contemplate too hard: I'm not always sure _I_ understand what I mean.


----------



## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Actually, I'm glad you responded, Naomi. Have readers branded you a "religious writer" because of Maisy May? (Religious characters, but 3D ones, no evangelistic agenda necessarily.)


*ROTFL*

Ahem. No, I don't think so. The DEAD(ish) series is so offensive to a good portion of the American Christian population that I'm probably more likely to be branded as the antichrist.

Maisy May, too, is an odd one. It's what I, personally, would classify as christian fiction, but very few christian fiction readers would classify it that way. It contains occasional swearing, and people questioning traditional church teaching on various subjects. In fact, it almost works the other way - people who aren't christian-fiction fans often buy Maisy May _in spite_ of the subject matter, because they've read and liked other books of mine.


----------



## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

NogDog said:


> Don't contemplate too hard: I'm not always sure _I_ understand what I mean.


You did have a good point, I think. It was just on a different train line to my own (train of thought).


----------



## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

NogDog said:


> But in this case I think it largely depends on how the religious aspects are handled. Is there an obvious bias (for or against) the religion in question as portrayed by the author and demonstrated by the character? How important is it to the story that it be that particular religion? (E.g.: could the story essentially work as well if it were about a Buddhist in India as it would if it were about a Christian in the US, or is it something specific to Christianity that is crucial to the plot?) Are there any characters portrayed with opposing viewpoints that are portrayed just as sympathetically? (The movie "Contact" comes to mind -- I never read the book so do not know how Sagan himself portrayed the Palmer Joss character, the Christian philosopher.)


So help me understand what you're suggesting here. Are you saying that religious content/themeology is only acceptable if the religions are interchangeable?

That would seem to suggest a lack of specifics, a generic approach to story, which doesn't seem appealing.

If I read a novel about, for example, the Mohawk tribes of the early 1700s (anyone remember the Donald Clayton Porter WHITE INDIAN series of novels of the 1970s and 1980s?) I'm not sure I'd want that story to be interchangeable with a novel about 12th-century Spanish Jews. Because if it were, then I'm not being exposed to either 18th-century Mohawks OR 12th-Century Jews.

I'm not suggesting an evangelistic focus here; that would definitely make a novel "Christian fiction" categorically.

But a novel featuring a Christian character ought to be fairly specific and accurate about what that character's life is life, what their world view is, and not completely interchangeable with another culture.

For example, I'm not Amish... but I was fascinated by the cultural aspects of the old Harrison Ford thriller, WITNESS. (No comment on how accurate or inaccurate it might have been...) And you couldn't take the plot of WITNESS and have it occur exactly the same way in, say, a Sikh community. And it ought not be interchangeable in that way.

That's not to say one is better than the other; but an Amish community and a Sikh community has very specific cultural differences. Effective fiction would, it seems to me, reflect those specifics without showing whether they were right or wrong, just what they are and how they impact character decisions, motivations, etc.


----------



## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> So help me understand what you're suggesting here. Are you saying that religious content/themeology is only acceptable if the religions are interchangeable?
> 
> That would seem to suggest a lack of specifics, a generic approach to story, which doesn't seem appealing.


I thought the point was the exact opposite, that if the religions were interchangeable, that points to it NOT being, for example, christian fiction.


----------



## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I'm not really suggesting anything so much as spouting off ideas/questions off the top of my mind. 

I think -- maybe  -- what I'm ultimately getting at is that I, as someone who is _not_ a Christian fiction (the genre) reader, am not averse to reading books with Christian protagonists; but I personally have no interest in reading something that is _specifically_ about Christianity -- or any other religion -- _such that it portrays that religion as the only correct choice for a belief system_. Outside of that, I think all I care about -- and I am not a publisher and certainly not claiming to be a "typical reader" -- is if it's a good story and if I care about the characters. If the protagonist is very pro toward one religion and anti other religions, the author will be fighting an uphill battle to win me over, however.

PS: The comparative religion, Buddhist/Christian thing was the idea that, for example, a novel about religious persecution could conceivably be about almost any religion in some location at some time in history and could be the basis of an engaging story. While you as an author then need to pick a religion (and time and place) to tell your story, it's the theme of religious persecution in this example that is more important to the story than the fact that you chose to base it on persecution of [insert religion here].


----------



## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

nomesque said:


> *ROTFL*
> 
> Ahem. No, I don't think so. The DEAD(ish) series is so offensive to a good portion of the American Christian population that I'm probably more likely to be branded as the antichrist.
> 
> Maisy May, too, is an odd one. It's what I, personally, would classify as christian fiction, but very few christian fiction readers would classify it that way. It contains occasional swearing, and people questioning traditional church teaching on various subjects. In fact, it almost works the other way - people who aren't christian-fiction fans often buy Maisy May _in spite_ of the subject matter, because they've read and liked other books of mine.


I'm not part of the mainstream "American Christian" culture myself... though generically I might get cast there by others... my brand of faith is Messianic, a blending of Judaism and Christianity. Which in some ways would make people expect me to be less tolerant.

But I've enjoyed all your books that I've read so far... and own all of them.

That said, I think your novels fit in this vague "middle category" I'm contemplating. Maisy May has "believing" characters and such, but it's not something with a discernible evangelistic agenda, it has no embedded sermons (that I recall), none of the earmarks of category Christian fiction. It would seem to fit in with what I'm struggling to define... novels that feature characters who are religious, but whose religion isn't the driving force of the novel in the sense of trying to convince folks "you should believe this way too" or "you should go pray the salvation prayer" or whatever.

(In other words, the off-putting stuff so endemic to category Christian fiction is not there in Maisy May... it's a novel about, not a novel for...)


----------



## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

NogDog said:


> I'm not really suggesting anything so much as spouting off ideas/questions off the top of my mind.
> 
> I think -- maybe  -- what I'm ultimately getting at is that I, as someone who is _not_ a Christian fiction (the genre) reader, am not averse to reading books with Christian protagonists; but I personally have no interest in reading something that is _specifically_ about Christianity -- or any other religion -- such that it portrays that religion as the only correct choice for a belief system. Outside of that, I think all I care about -- and I am not a publisher and certainly not claiming to be a "typical reader" -- is if it's a good story and if I care about the characters. If the protagonist is very pro toward one religion and anti other religions, the author will be fighting an uphill battle to win me over, however.


Fair enough, and thanks for clarifying for me. That helped.

So, would the opening line of A PRAYER FOR OWEN MEANY be off-putting to you? Or would the fact that Irving has a literary track record of writing other novels that, when they happen to address faith, are usually hostile, buy him enough credibility that you wouldn't automatically toss OWEN MEANY into the Christian fiction category.

(It's the category/label of Christian fiction I'm concerned with in this discussion. In the broader literary sense, many novels that are not "category Christian fiction" have some religious characters and themes; that's obvious. But there are some, esp. in the Amazon forums, where the mere mention of God causes them to post and say, "Warning! This novel is Christian fiction! It has a religious agenda!" When, in fact, all it has is a religious main character but not that sort of viewpoint or agenda. McAfee's 33 AD is an example... it's a vampire thriller, but the novel's been unfairly tagged by some as a Christian fiction novel with a 'covert religious agenda' ... all because Jesus appears as a character in two scenes, and is portrayed historically, rather than as a sham. Yet the author himself is not religious.)


----------



## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Warning: more rambling. (I'm up late, but worried about Noggin's trip to the vet tomorrow...err...today, so I'm distracting myself here.)

Fortunately, I don't read Amazon forums and rarely read many of the reviews there. 

Certainly an author's previous track record influences my buying choices. But any time you bring any potentially confrontational subject into play, whether it be religion, politics, global warming, evolution, etc., _someone_ is going to be offended or at least put off by _anything_ that deals with those subjects in any manner. The fact that those are also important subjects that can be the basis of important novels means that the author simply has to decide on his/her priorities: write what s/he wants to write about and feels passionately about, or write what is "safe" and is easily categorized into a cookie-cutter genre. Taking the first, riskier route is more likely to produce a truly good book, but perhaps also more likely to fail -- that's life for you. 

I've not read 33AD, but I _loved_ Christopher Moore's _Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal_, which while I suspect Christian fundamentalists hated it, I found both educational, funny, heartwarming, sad, and fascinating -- and I would not be able to personally label it as pro- or anti-Christian, or pro- or anti-Jew, either.


----------



## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> I'm not part of the mainstream "American Christian" culture myself... though generically I might get cast there by others... my brand of faith is Messianic, a blending of Judaism and Christianity. Which in some ways would make people expect me to be less tolerant.
> 
> But I've enjoyed all your books that I've read so far... and own all of them.


Thanks!  Yes, it's interesting the differences in faith and reading culture, isn't it? I know several people in Australia, too, who believe that reading anything which contains swearing and/or sex scenes to be unequivocally wrong.



CraigInTwinCities said:


> That said, I think your novels fit in this vague "middle category" I'm contemplating. Maisy May has "believing" characters and such, but it's not something with a discernible evangelistic agenda, it has no embedded sermons (that I recall), none of the earmarks of category Christian fiction. It would seem to fit in with what I'm struggling to define... novels that feature characters who are religious, but whose religion isn't the driving force of the novel in the sense of trying to convince folks "you should believe this way too" or "you should go pray the salvation prayer" or whatever.


*nod* It asks a lot of questions, but doesn't really answer any, I think. There are discussions about sex, homosexuality, and social justice... but the intent certainly isn't to draw the reader to a specific conclusion. That said, though, some might argue that it evangelises for the 'liberal' crowd.

I guess I'd like to see 'religious-themed fiction' and 'evangelistic fiction' considered as legitimate subcategories. Evangelistic - ie, aimed at pulling the reader toward a certain religion or belief - fiction irritates me no end. Religion-themed, on the other hand, doesn't bother me.

Susan Howatch's books are another example of religious-but-not-evangelical, I think. The author's beliefs come through, but her desire to see her audience adopt them doesn't.

Robert Heinlein's books, in my opinion, shaded toward evangelical in tone. Almost evangelical agnosticism. Stranger in a Strange Land, especially.



CraigInTwinCities said:


> (In other words, the off-putting stuff so endemic to category Christian fiction is not there in Maisy May... it's a novel about, not a novel for...)


I'm glad it comes across to you that way!


----------



## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

NogDog said:


> Warning: more rambling. (I'm up late, but worried about Noggin's trip to the vet tomorrow...err...today, so I'm distracting myself here.)


Awww... hope he's OK. 



NogDog said:


> Certainly an author's previous track record influences my buying choices. But any time you bring any potentially confrontational subject into play, whether it be religion, politics, global warming, evolution, etc., _someone_ is going to be offended or at least put off by _anything_ that deals with those subjects in any manner. The fact that those are also important subjects that can be the basis of important novels means that the author simply has to decide on his/her priorities: write what s/he wants to write about and feels passionately about, or write what is "safe" and is easily categorized into a cookie-cutter genre. Taking the first, riskier route is more likely to produce a truly good book, but perhaps also more likely to fail -- that's life for you.


Very true. I thoroughly killed any chance of the DEAD(ish) series going mainstream in the US with the swearing and the writing style. I knew that before I released them though. *shrug*



NogDog said:


> I've not read 33AD, but I _loved_ Christopher Moore's _Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal_, which while I suspect Christian fundamentalists hated it, I found both educational, funny, heartwarming, sad, and fascinating -- and I would not be able to personally label it as pro- or anti-Christian, or pro- or anti-Jew, either.


Huh - last time I looked for his books in the Kindle store, NONE were available to Australia. Now they all seem to be. FINALLY, a chance to discover what people mean when they call me, "the poor man's Christopher Moore"!!!


----------



## susie (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm trying to remember Owen Meany...but I am old and it's been centuries...is that the book with the guy who gives flags to families of Vietnam vets, and I seem to remember a trigger finger being cut off to avoid the draft, and a tombstone cut with the correct date of a death before the death happened, and some nuns at an airport at the end...?

Well, then the answer is no.


----------



## crash86 (Oct 8, 2010)

From what I can remember about the book it didn't have any religious overtones, just most likely that one line at the beginning of the book and certainly no more so than any other mainstream non christian book.  It was a really good book.


----------



## jherrick (Apr 1, 2011)

Interesting post. I've actually been experiencing this firsthand (not a plug for my book here, just honest input to the stream!). I consider my novel mainstream fiction and market it that way, but it contains strong faith elements due to the characters. Given the characters (a minister father, his wayward son, etc.), it seemed odd if they _didn't _ mention their faith. So I wondered what sort of reaction I'd get, from either side of the fence!

Reviews have suggested that readers consider the book simply "hard to categorize," but that's proven a positive thing. It appears readers find books like these compatible for both audiences. Readers of Christian fiction often read mainstream fiction, so when faced with some graphic scenes or language, they seem to consider the context of it and not reject it. Readers who don't come from a Christian background seem OK with books that mention faith if they don't become overly preachy and the faith references genuinely fit the characters and events. I have to say, it's proven interesting to see the reactions as they occur.


----------



## crash86 (Oct 8, 2010)

Personally I don't mind books with some religious overtones, I even like the odd Amish book, but I hate books that are preachy and in your face with constant thankfulness to God and prayer.


----------



## nmg222 (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm not really answering the question but I can tell you that I am born Jewish, don't have a religious bone in my body and 'A Prayer for Owen Meany' is on my top ten all time favorites list.  

"That voice...that voice"


----------



## theraven (Dec 30, 2009)

I haven't read A Prayer for Owen Meany so I'm going to addres the other questions.



> Or is there room for a category of fiction that contains religious themes, contains characters who believe, but where story is the focal point, not sermonizing or conversion? Is the mere presence of such characters and themes enough to toss a book into the "Christian fiction" category?


The complicated answer is ... it depends who's asked. I liken the issue of "What constitues a Christian fiction book?" to the debate between what is better for an author traditional or indie publishing. There are so many factors involved in today's writing/publishing environment that the entire Christian fiction industry is changing. And some like it ... and others don't and are trying their best to devalue authors that want and need to step out of the clear boundaries that have been around for decades.

The first determining factor is if the publisher is in the CBA (Christian Booksellers Association) side of the industry instead of the ABA. Then it comes down to whether or not the character's Christian faith is an integral part of the plot (faith struggles that directly impact their growth and the plot) or just used as a descriptive factor. Another factor (and this one is changing and lines are being drawn in the sand so to speak) is the graphic nature of the book and content. It used to be there had to be a 'salvation scene' ... not a requirement anymore. Boundaries are being pushed as far as violence allowed and even 'romantic/kissing scenes' but showing characters drinking, having sex, or even unmarried couples spending the night together is still a taboo. (though like in all genres there are some authors that can do this, except for graphic sex scenes)

There are many Christian fiction books coming out from CBA houses where the faith element isn't that strong as the character being Christian is more part of the characters description and to set the worldview used in the novel. This displeases some writers and readers and others are happy about the 'loosening' of the rules. Small presses are more willing to stretch the boundaries still and allow for more unconventional roles than the larger houses. I ran into this issue with writing Christian romantic suspense because my heroines are also in the rescuer role and share the role of protector alongside the heroes. This was one of the deciding factors of it being turned down, the heroine wasn't women in jeopardy enough and it wasn't a part of the book (and series) I was willing to change.



> Is there still room for an in-between category?


Some believe there is, some believe there isn't. My opinion is that there is and should be an in-between category and I believe that small presses and indie books will start filling this needed area that some readers want. There are some that strongly believe either a book is Christian fiction or it's not. And to be a Christian fiction book it must adhere to the standards that have been around for decades and must follow certain extremely conversative views (and I say legalistic) Biblical principles established to a tee.



> FINAL QUESTION: Also, if a writer published one novel that has such themes, is he or she forever to be tacked with the label of a "religious writer," even when they go on to write other novels that are not focused on religious themes at all?


Actually, I think it's harder to 'keep' the label of religious writer/Christian writer if an author decides to pursue writing books that don't fit into the Christian publishing market. And it's not just the industry (CBA) where trouble is found but also within some church communities if they feel you've written something that they deem is 'unChristian'. I've been shunned and had my faith challenged many times and been told/alluded that I'm not a real Christian because of books I've written in the past.


----------



## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I appreciate your response , theraven.

There are personal reasons for this discussion, in terms of my own writing. I have one novel that is "about" but not "for."  On the one hand, the optimistic view is that I could attract readers from both perspectives.

On the other hand, the pessimistic view (and perhaps more likely) is that I'll tick off readers on both sides... "too religious" for the irreligious, and "not faith-affirming enough" for the faith readership.

(And my MC's views don't even really reflect my own.)

Having a novel about a "believing" character shouldn't always make it a Christian fiction novel out of hand; especially if there are no embedded sermons, no salvation message, and the point of the novel is not to affirm faith, but the bring a character to a more realistic view of life and the world, testing all their presumptions and seeing what's left in the wake of that testing. Even moreso, it ought not get that label, if the MC makes decisions that aren't "what they need to make, in order for this to be a Christian fiction novel."

My interest is in the testing of my MC, not affirming her brand of faith. For me, that places it closer to "a novel about" than it does "a novel for."

I made the MC's beliefs deep because, what's interesting about testing something that a person only holds to casually? And the faith elements are only one part of the novel; there are many other plot elements.

So I guess part of why this is on my mind is whether this novel will make faith-averse readers look at future novels of mine, which are pure suspense or YA paranormal suspense, and go, "Oh, don't read him, he wrote a novel with faith themes so he has an agenda." Even though those novels don't have any of the same content.

I already am aware of the sort of readers in the faith market who will reject all my books (and possibly me) simply because I write something that's not a sermon, LOL.... 

But I don't want to drag the thread into the topic of my novels; my main interest here is talking about that vague "middle category" that I'm tending to label as being "about, but not necessarily for" the faith market.


----------



## theraven (Dec 30, 2009)

Sorry. I misunderstood the question.  Let me give it another try.

I don't think that fiction books are automatically labeled as Christian fiction because the book has characters that are Christian. There are two traditional/cozy mystery series that have Christian characters. One is centered around a Bible study group and the other is about a pastor's wife and neither of those series are labeled Christian fiction. The series by Julia Spencer-Fleming has a woman priest as the main character and it isn't labeled Christian fiction. And there are probably others in other genres. There is a middle ground but most people that are vocal are those that only want or don't want religious/faith based elements in their novels. 

Most readers are in the middle ground category and would probably be more willing to try a non-faith based book (or a faith based book depending what you write first) by an author that they are familiar with and trust. No matter what we write, someone ... somewhere ... for some reason ... is going to get ticked off. Readers get testy about any agenda (animal rights, politics, environment, etc.) or what they feel is an agenda showing up in a book. Preaching doesn't just show up with faith based fiction.


----------

