# Anybody heard of a site called Mobilism? Is this piracy?



## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

So I get a google alert for my novel Forever Mine this morning. I go check it out and it takes me to this link where someone is requesting my book and offering some kind of credits good only for that site. The requests says "Any format is fine" What the heck? Should I be worried? Any body else ever encountered this? I tried reading some of the FAQ's on the site and "rules" but I still don't get it.

This is the link to the request http://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?t=204847&p=795753


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Looks like a pirate site to me.


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## Ryne Billings (May 15, 2011)

There's a link to paypal on that site. I've heard that paypal will cut ties with a website if they're doing something illegal, so you might want to pursue that option. It looks like piracy to me.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2011)

Yes. As for whether you should be worried, your book hasn't been posted yet. At least you can take comfort that somebody wants it even if it's one of the people who won't pay for anything.


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

Hmm I'll keep checking back. Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a little flattering that someone is requesting but really? You won't even pay $.99 for it?


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## Ryne Billings (May 15, 2011)

EliRey said:


> Hmm I'll keep checking back. Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a little flattering that someone is requesting but really? You won't even pay $.99 for it?


You could post there with the link to your book.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Ryne Billings said:


> There's a link to paypal on that site. I've heard that paypal will cut ties with a website if they're doing something illegal, so you might want to pursue that option. It looks like piracy to me.


Yepper. I took a gander at their "donation" thread and apparently PayPal has already yanked their account once.  Let us know what goes, please.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

EliRey said:


> Hmm I'll keep checking back. Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a little flattering that someone is requesting but really? You won't even pay $.99 for it?


I'd be tempted to make an account and post the link to Amazon


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2011)

EliRey said:


> Hmm I'll keep checking back. Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a little flattering that someone is requesting but really? You won't even pay $.99 for it?


Pirates are scumbags who don't give a crap about you. They want what they want, and you are worth NOTHING to them.

Once you accept that, it can actually be quite liberating. You stop worrying about whether or not you are losing sales, because you realize these dirtballs were never potential customers anyway.

Just report them to Paypal and move on to attracting real customers who will appreciate your efforts enough to get a legal copy.


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## greenpen (May 30, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Pirates are scumbags who don't give a crap about you. They want what they want, and you are worth NOTHING to them.
> 
> Once you accept that, it can actually be quite liberating. You stop worrying about whether or not you are losing sales, because you realize these dirtballs were never potential customers anyway.
> 
> Just report them to Paypal and move on to attracting real customers who will appreciate your efforts enough to get a legal copy.


Here's another site. They want your e books as long as you sign up with a 25 dollars fee they will kindly waive your 250 dollars set up fee for formatting your e book. How kind of them. Apparently they claim it's a pre slush pile. Seems more like hogwash to me.

http://www.bloodygoodread.com/index.php


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

For a moment there I actually considered posting on there that I'd gift her a copy, only because I know people in my own family who will probably never buy my books because they REFUSE to put any of their credit card info ANYWHERE on the internet (old school). I got to thinking maybe this is a young girl who has parents that think this way. But then I thought better of it. I won't even go there. It's not worth it. Still gonna keep watching and I'll update if anyone actually gets her a copy. In "any format."


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

EliRey said:


> For a moment there I actually considered posting on there that I'd gift her a copy, only because I know people in my own family who will probably never buy my books because they REFUSE to put any of their credit card info ANYWHERE on the internet (old school). I got to thinking maybe this is a young girl who has parents that think this way. But then I thought better of it. I won't even go there. It's not worth it. Still gonna keep watching and I'll update if anyone actually gets her a copy. In "any format."


If you had already published more books, I guess that would have been a SMART move to publicly send her a copy of the book, but gently asking her to buy the next ones if that one pleased her. I know SOME people (even pirates) will consider things differently if the author is "someone reasonable and gracious" rather than "an other anonymous nobody".


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2011)

greenpen said:


> Here's another site. They want your e books as long as you sign up with a 25 dollars fee they will kindly waive your 250 dollars set up fee for formatting your e book. How kind of them. Apparently they claim it's a pre slush pile. Seems more like hogwash to me.
> 
> http://www.bloodygoodread.com/index.php


Why do people show me these things? You all just love to rile me up, don't you?

So let me get this straight. This site charges the author $25 for the honor of...eh hem...giving their books away for free to other members that pay the $25 a year fee?

*bangs head on keyboard*


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## greenpen (May 30, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Why do people show me these things? You all just love to rile me up, don't you?
> 
> So let me get this straight. This site charges the author $25 for the honor of...eh hem...giving their books away for free to other members that pay the $25 a year fee?
> 
> *bangs head on keyboard*


You got it in one


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Why do people show me these things? You all just love to rile me up, don't you?
> 
> So let me get this straight. This site charges the author $25 for the honor of...eh hem...giving their books away for free to other members that pay the $25 a year fee?
> 
> *bangs head on keyboard*


Pretty sure that's how Bernie Madoff started. . . . . . . .


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Why do people show me these things? You all just love to rile me up, don't you?


Well, yeah... it's fun. "Look at Julie. Wind her up and watch her go!" :runs away:


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2011)

Arkali said:


> Well, yeah... it's fun. "Look at *****. Wind her up and watch her go!" :runs away:


Hmmmm, maybe I should look into financing for a Talking ***** Action Figure. With spring action Bleeding Pen of Death attack! Press the button and you get one of twelve random rants! Includes *****'s rants about editing, piracy, 99 cent pricing, and the ever popular "WTF? You are swapping positive reviews?"


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Hmmmm, maybe I should look into financing for a Talking Julie Action Figure. With spring action Bleeding Pen of Death attack! Press the button and you get one of twelve random rants! Includes Julie's rants about editing, piracy, 99 cent pricing, and the ever popular "WTF? You are swapping positive reviews?"


Don't forget the kung-fu. It's not cool unless it's got kung-fu action _________________. Maybe a kung-fu red pen?


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## Michelle Muto (Feb 1, 2011)

EliRey said:


> Hmm I'll keep checking back. Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a little flattering that someone is requesting but really? You won't even pay $.99 for it?


I wouldn't care if your book was $9.99. It's your hard work. But, some people don't have an ounce of morals, it seems. Sorry to hear this.

Of course, it didn't go unnoticed that the site and/or the people there are getting paid off the work of the copyright holder. I saw the Paypal logo and the 'reward' being offered, too. They upload to Filesonic, so send Filesonic a takedown notice when your book hits.


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## CaedemMarquez (Mar 23, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> .... and the ever popular "WTF? You are swapping positive reviews?"


LOL


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## samanthawarren (May 1, 2011)

I've seen so many comments lately about how we should be embracing piracy, it's nice to see some people actually feel the way I do about it. The next time I see/hear someone say that piracy isn't stealing, I'm totally sending them Julie's way.


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm often surprised the lengths that people will go to in order to avoid paying very little money for something.

I found a "Best of 2010" file. 200 ebooks that were bestsellers last year. Obviously it was the big name authors and their books, but still, you would expect that most readers would only actually bother with a fraction of them. At an average of $10 an ebook I would have spent $80 (already owned several on the list). That is really nothing for a couple of months worth of entertainment. Now start looking at indie prices, where the [email protected]#$ is the problem?


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

OMG! Someone posted a reply with a link and said "Enjoy"  I went to the link but it started a countdown to the download and I've heard so much of those websites being nothing but virus's so I x'd out before it could finish downloading.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

EliRey said:


> OMG! Someone posted a reply with a link and said "Enjoy" I went to the link but it started a countdown to the download and I've heard so much of those websites being nothing but virus's so I x'd out before it could finish downloading.


It's your book sample from Smashwords up to chapter 5. Don't worry about it. I downloaded it - it is epub and mobi format.

People sharing your full work is good anyway. Torrents ahoy!


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## Michelle Muto (Feb 1, 2011)

EliRey said:


> OMG! Someone posted a reply with a link and said "Enjoy" I went to the link but it started a countdown to the download and I've heard so much of those websites being nothing but virus's so I x'd out before it could finish downloading.


Go to Filesonic and search for your book. If it's there, they've most likely uploaded the full version. Send Filesonic a takedown notice (they'll respond within a couple of days) and report these thieves to the feds. Then, we'll send them Julie's way. There's simply no excuse for these people.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Geez, always with these piracy threads it's like this board is the place facts go to die.

Piracy is this! No, it's that!

Please please please people - educate yourselves! A simple google search - is piracy wrong? Is piracy a crime? Is piracy good?

Read some studies using actual verifiable evidence. Look for the actual _truth_ of reality. Not hype, not spin, not some lie to support an agenda.

Send a takedown notice? Go outside and piss in the garden instead. It will have the same effect on piracy and at least the plants will get some fertiliser.


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

Michelle Muto said:


> There's simply no excuse for these people.


Would you consider it a valid excuse if someone already owns the book (in a physical version for example) and used "pirate" channels to get an ebook version ? (not that it seems to be the case in the curent situation) ...


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

mathewferguson said:


> Geez, always with these piracy threads it's like this board is the place facts go to die.
> Piracy is this! No, it's that!
> Please please please people - educate yourselves! A simple google search - is piracy wrong? Is piracy a crime? Is piracy good?
> Read some studies using actual verifiable evidence. Look for the actual _truth_ of reality. Not hype, not spin, not some lie to support an agenda.
> Send a takedown notice? Go outside and p*ss in the garden instead. It will have the same effect on piracy and at least the plants will get some fertiliser.


I completely understand what you're saying, and I think you're completely right regarding the "whole picture" (evidences, and effect on piracy from takedown notices). But just because on a "macroscopic level" piracy may not be the threat some people claim it to be, it doesnt necessarily mean that on a "microscopical level" no author is hurt by it. 
For example, I also remember seeing posts a few days ago from a fellow writer (Michelle ? ) who found out that in their particular case WERE hurt by piracy.


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## samanthawarren (May 1, 2011)

Mathew, in every thread about this topic you tell people to "do the research" or "go to Google." We shouldn't have to go seek out evidence for you. I'm not going to spend hours trying to find "verifiable evidence" from some skewed study that you may have read at some point. There are two solid reasons that piracy is wrong. 

1. It's illegal and I don't give a rat's you-know-what about any claims that it's not. Those are complete BS. 
2. People ON THIS BOARD have stated that their sales have been hurt when their books were pirated. I'm more willing to trust the input of people here than some guy did a study for who-knows-what reason. All studies have an agenda. None of them can be completely trusted. 


TheSFReader, I don't consider that a valid reason. It's still stealing. As an author, I'd prefer it if my readers would come talk to me rather than try to get an illegal copy somewhere else.


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

samanthawarren said:


> Mathew, in every thread about this topic you tell people to "do the research" or "go to Google." We shouldn't have to go seek out evidence for you. I'm not going to spend hours trying to find "verifiable evidence" from some skewed study that you may have read at some point. There are two solid reasons that piracy is wrong.
> 
> 1. It's illegal and I don't give a rat's you-know-what about any claims that it's not. Those are complete BS.
> 2. People ON THIS BOARD have stated that their sales have been hurt when their books were pirated. I'm more willing to trust the input of people here than some guy did a study for who-knows-what reason. All studies have an agenda. None of them can be completely trusted.
> ...


Well said Samantha,

Thanks everyone for your input. I've a lot of writing and editing to do. So no I will not be spending even a minute "educating" myself on why some people think it's okay to steal other peoples blood sweat and tears. I've already filed a report with the proper channels. Moving on.


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## Michelle Muto (Feb 1, 2011)

Well put, Samantha, EliRey.

Theft is theft. If someone doesn't get that taking and distributing freely what is not is theirs is wrong, there's no Google search in the world that'll help here.

Simply do not steal. I don't get what's so hard about that.

Again, I'm out of here. I've editing and writing to do. My time is better spent there than arguing with anyone who condones theft - no matter how they try to justify that.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Samantha I'm not asking you to prove anything to me. I'm not asking for evidence for _myself_.

I'm asking those who oppose it or those who don't really know to take a little bit of time to establish the _basic facts_ of reality.

Once you do some basic research you'll know which of the following statements is a _fact_ and which of them is a _lie_:

1) Piracy is killing the movie industry!
2) The movie industry had a year of record-breaking profits and the first ever two billion dollar movie.

Now I'm not too sure how people manage to hold these opposing ideas in their mind. I'm not really sure how they hold the idea that piracy is bad for ebooks when we have both massive rampant ebook piracy plus Amazon and other etailers selling millions upon millions of them. Strange, isn't it?

Once you have the basic facts of reality you can then understand what is happening and what the actual consequences are.

To your statements. Have you heard of Kohlberg's stages of moral development? Have a read if you like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development

So to your first statement:


> 1. It's illegal and I don't give a rat's you-know-what about any claims that it's not. Those are complete BS.


This statement lands squarely in stage four of Kohlberg's stages. Morality at this level is strictly defined by an unthinking obedience to laws and rules. The fairness or appropriateness of these laws and rules is rarely questioned.

It's illegal so it's wrong!

To your second statement which I'll parse because there is so much going on there:


> 2. People ON THIS BOARD have stated that their sales have been hurt when their books were pirated.


I'd love to see that data. I would absolutely love to see the significance testing that went on there to establish there is actually a measurable change. You do know about significance don't you? Anecdotal "I went from ten sales a month to three" doesn't cut it.



> I'm more willing to trust the input of people here than some guy did a study for who-knows-what reason. All studies have an agenda. None of them can be completely trusted.


Well, I'm sure then you might like to take some bee pollen instead of penicillin for that tonsillitis. Or perhaps you'd like someone to cast a spell over a dying child rather than say, give them a dose of medicine that has been established to work through the application of the scientific method.

Why not abandon the method that has brought more good to the world than anything else ever invented by humans? Sounds great!

So you're more willing to trust anecdotes rather then hard evidence? I've pirated masses of stuff that has led to purchase. I pirated Michael Connelly and then bought his books. I've pirated software, films, music and ebooks and then bought _as a direct result of my piracy_.

What do you say to this anecdote? What do you say to the anecdotes of people on the web who report this exact thing?

If you won't accept hard evidence collected by unbiased credible researchers will you accept anecdotes from random people on the web instead?


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Michelle Muto said:


> Well put, Samantha, EliRey.
> 
> Theft is theft. If someone doesn't get that taking and distributing freely what is not is theirs is wrong, there's no Google search in the world that'll help here.
> 
> ...


Theft is theft you say.

Have you ever in your life forwarded a joke email? One of those funny pictures with some text?

Did you do that without paying the original creator? Did you even make any attempt to discover the original creator?

I mean, you laughed didn't you? You laughed and thought it so worthwhile that you sent it to someone else! It was of such high entertainment value that it needed to be shared.

All without a penny being paid to the original content creator. Oh, and it was an illegal act too. You sent something that wasn't yours to someone else. You benefited by being entertained and then caused the criminal theft of their copyrighted work.

I'm shocked that someone with such a staunch position against sharing ebooks for nothing has engaged in such blatantly criminal acts which are illegal, which as we know means they are immoral too.

Ever downloaded a computer wallpaper of uncertain copyright status? You haven't forward a _recipe_ have you? Oh, please tell me you haven't hummed along to a song and someone has overheard you and you didn't send any kind of payment to the original creator!

Hmm ... can you see where I'm going with this yet?

That which is the law and that which is right are two different things. The law is a blunt object, a weak approximation, a slow and burdensome lumbering dinosaur which moves slowly. There are many things that you do in your everyday life that break the very copyright law you seek to defend.

At what point will you admit sharing ebooks is good for creators rather than bad? How many studies do you need to read? How many anecdotes from authors like Neil Gaiman do you need to see?

You need to move past the idea of "theft" in the era of infinite zero-cost duplication.


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## Ryne Billings (May 15, 2011)

Your arguments are pretty weak. Piracy is theft, and theft is wrong. No amount of poorly executed arguments are going to change that.


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

Ryne Billings said:


> Piracy is theft, and theft is wrong. No amount of poorly executed arguments are going to change that.


(Word nitpicking ahead) The supreme court of the USA begs to differ :



Wikipedia said:


> Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as "theft". In law copyright infringement does not refer to actual theft, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.[5] Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft, holding, for instance, in the United States Supreme Court case Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property and that "...interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright... 'an infringer of the copyright.'" In the case of copyright infringement the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law is invaded, i.e. exclusive rights, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held.[6]


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2011)

mathewferguson said:


> Theft is theft you say.
> 
> Have you ever in your life forwarded a joke email? One of those funny pictures with some text?


This argument makes almost as much sense as saying "Did you ever find a dollar on the street and pick it up? See, you commited theft too, so bank robbery is ethical."

And no, for the record I don't forward emails like that and if I open them it is by accident because I thought it was something else. Not because of copyright, but because I find them annoying in most cases.

As I have said a million times. I don't think authors should worry about piracy because these people are not lost customers. They never intended to pay anyway, and therefore their downloads are not lost sales. That does not, however, mean what they do is acceptable. They are still scum that take what does not belong to them out of an undue sense of entitlement. They want, therefore they take, and they don't care if the author makes money or not. They don't care if the author is a millionaire bestseller or a cancer patient. They are not robin hoods taking from the rich and giving to the poor. They are self-centered, selfish brats that feel entitled to stuff without paying for it.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> This argument makes almost as much sense as saying "Did you ever find a dollar on the street and pick it up? See, you commited theft too, so bank robbery is ethical."


No Julie, that's not true.

You're on here so set against piracy yet you are breaking the law in myriad ways just as millions of other are in their day to day lives. You've NEVER EVER forwarded an email sent to you? Not once in your entire life? Because there is no fair use clause when it comes to forwarding an email to someone. You have illegally duplicated their work and sent it on. Illegal. And immoral apparently if illegal and immoral are the same thing as they appear to be to those opposed to file-sharing.



> As I have said a million times. I don't think authors should worry about piracy because these people are not lost customers. They never intended to pay anyway, and therefore their downloads are not lost sales.


This is completely untrue. Some people never pirate. Some people sometimes pirate. Some people always pirate. Some people pirate when they're poor and stop when they're rich. One study directly linked the rate of piracy to the relative price of goods to income. It had nothing to do with intention. Again, you are misrepresenting reality.



> They are still scum that take what does not belong to them out of an undue sense of entitlement. They want, therefore they take, and they don't care if the author makes money or not. They don't care if the author is a millionaire bestseller or a cancer patient. They are not robin hoods taking from the rich and giving to the poor. They are self-centered, selfish brats that feel entitled to stuff without paying for it.


Where is your _evidence_? Who has documented this "undue sense of entitlement"? What research exists where pirates admit "they don't care if the author makes money or not"?

If you continue to operate in an echo chamber you're going to increasingly find yourself disconnected from what is going on around you. Surely you don't accept that statements such as "Piracy is killing the movie industry" and "The movie industry just had a record year and its first ever two billion dollar movie" to be both true, do you? You surely don't accept "Piracy is a massive problem for music" when Apple sells TWO BILLION downloads, right?

Do you accept it could be both illegal but morally right for a dirt pool student to pirate a book? Do you further accept that for some people, piracy is a gateway to purchasing?

I've directly purchased as a result of my piracy. There we have a sample size of one. How many more do you need before you modify your position to accept that simply because something is illegal now, it may not be in the future and it may not be immoral either.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Ryne Billings said:


> Your arguments are pretty weak. Piracy is theft, and theft is wrong. No amount of poorly executed arguments are going to change that.


Piracy is sharing.

Sharing is natural. We do it all the time. We forward emails, we trade music, we share recipes. As children we reenact movies and television in the playground. We mimic. We copy and freely adapt. We "play" Star Wars/etc. It is vital to our existence and the basis for our global cultural growth.

This sharing is not theft. This sharing is not wrong.

Come try it out Ryne. Put your book up on a torrent for the world to download. See that the world does not crumble down around you.


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## carolco (Apr 15, 2011)

That's evidence of your book getting popular.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2011)

mathewferguson said:


> Do you accept it could be both illegal but morally right for a dirt pool student to pirate a book?


No. That is what libraries are for. In fact, that "dirt poor" student HAS access to a library at his high school or college. I suspect he has plenty of free material to read. Amazon has several hundred free titles already available. So does Barnes and Noble. There are sites that swap physical books that you send someone a book you have and they send you one of theirs. _There is no moral right to another person's intellectual property_. Unless, as I have said, you have a huge sense of entitlement, which you seem to claim is not true.

If someone choses to share their work, that is a wonderful thing. Just like it is a wonderful thing when people chose to donate money to charity. But the last time I checked, if someone hacked into your bank account and gave the money to a "poor student" I suspect you'd be less than thrilled.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2011)

"I know SOME people (even pirates) will consider things differently if the author is "someone reasonable and gracious" rather than "an other anonymous nobody".
_________

"Piracy is sharing.

"Sharing is natural. We do it all the time. We forward emails, we trade music, we share recipes. As children we reenact movies and television in the playground. We mimic. We copy and freely adapt. We "play" Star Wars/etc. It is vital to our existence and the basis for our global cultural growth.

"This sharing is not theft. This sharing is not wrong.

"Come try it out Ryne. Put your book up on a torrent for the world to download. See that the world does not crumble down around you."
______________ 

Oh, my God!

Now we've gotten to the point where a thief is not a thief because he's only sharing.

Well, I don't have a soft spot in my heart for a thief, even if he uses the colorful name "pirate" or claims he's just someone who "shares."

I learned long ago that padlocks can be broken. But I still put padlocks on my storage lockers. There's a saying that locks are meant to keep honest folks honest.

So let the "honest" person be aware that if he breaks the padlock, he has become a thief.

And now this quote:

"That's evidence of your book getting popular."

Banks will tell you that money is popular, too. But banks try to protect it.


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## John Dax (May 21, 2010)

Someone once said that piracy is reduced (not eliminated, but reduced) the more that works of art are made 1) easier to acquire and 2) priced cheap enough and 3) that it becomes too much of a hassle to pirate that item.

Sorry, can't cite that source but it sounds reasonable. Make songs 99 cents and super convenient on iTunes and it's just plain easier for some people to just buy the songs, for example.

Now, we've got control of prices and Amazon's got a great distribution model in place. What is next to be done?

If you find your novel at a pirate site, you can try the following.

Step 1) Note the file size on the pirate site.

Step 2) Create five copies of your original file and tweak the names to include words like "final" or "full-version" for example.

Step 3) Delete out your text, and paste an equal amount of text from a work in the public domain. Sherlock Holmes stories, perhaps. You want the final file sizes to be similar to the original file, if you just delete the text a pirate will clearly see there is no content in the files prior to downloading it.

Step 4) Upload your five files to the same pirate site.

Now the pirate only has a 20% chance of getting the right novel. If they pick the wrong one enough times, they'll get frustrated and either buy it or not. 

I'm also not advocating putting a virus in the files because that would be totally irresponsible. Or something.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2011)

If a dollar bill is on the sidewalk and you pick it up, I think that qualifies as "finder's keepers"

But there's no way you could convince me that you found my ebook on the sidwalk.


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

JohnDax said:


> Someone once said that piracy is reduced (not eliminated, but reduced) the more that works of art are made 1) easier to acquire and 2) priced cheap enough and 3) that it becomes too much of a hassle to pirate that item.


That was from several studies that have been recently looking at the music industry and piracy. Original studies were industry statistics and didn't take into account various data anomalies (such as the change to CD in the 90's that created an unnatural peak in the market place). Since then less biased reports and studies are essentially showing that there are two catogories of piracy: positive and negative. Negative is actual profiteerng from sale and distribution. Positive is file sharing which creates larger awareness and broadens audiences. File sharing can actually result in increases in sales by 30%. When you look at books it appears that it depends on how popular your books are.


> Brian O'Leary "Impact of P2P and Free Distribution on Book Sales" for Tools of Change For Publishing (O'Reilly).
> 
> Fiction WAS included in his data set.
> 
> ...


More on my blog:http://thetysonadams.blogspot.com/2011/04/yo-ho-ho-and-bottle-of-rum.html

I'm against people making money off of someone else's work. By file sharing generally isn't about that at all, it is about finding stuff you might want to buy after you've sampled some. File sharers will either buy more media or they would never buy stuff anyway. Win-win. I don't see why they would need to do this with e-books considering the samples available and the prices. I do know that parenting and education is a missing key to this "gimme stuff" attitude, something no-one wants to talk about. Everyone wants to burn pirates at the stake, but that just doesn't work. Give them a reason not to exist instead, make content available widely, make it accessible, cheap and have samples, and most of all educate and discipline kiddies.


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## Justin Alexander (Feb 19, 2011)

Matthew! Hey!

Two threads later. Still waiting for you to provide any actual evidence backing up your claim that sales of digital content are not hurt by piracy of identical digital content. (Please don't waste our time by posting studies about digital piracy being potentially beneficial for the sales of print media. You know as well as I do that that's not what we're talking about here.)

You're always very keen in these threads to demand that other people "prove" and "provide evidence" for things, but you seem habitually incapable of doing it yourself.

Consider yourself called out. Again.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Justin Alexander said:


> Matthew! Hey!
> 
> Two threads later. Still waiting for you to provide any actual evidence backing up your claim that sales of digital content are not hurt by piracy of identical digital content. (Please don't waste our time by posting studies about digital piracy being potentially beneficial for the sales of print media. You know as well as I do that that's not what we're talking about here.)
> 
> ...


Le sigh.

It appears you don't understand how evidence works.

If you want to say "Piracy of ebooks causes blindness" for example then it is up to _you_ to prove your assertion. That which you assert without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

You could assert an infinite number of ridiculous things. Piracy is killing the movie industry! (Which had record-breaking earnings). Piracy causes sheep to fly! Prove to me that it doesn't!

Your claim is that piracy harms digital sales. The onus is on you to supply that evidence to prove your assertion.

See how this works?

If it were true there should be plenty of credible studies around that show exactly what you say. We'd see pre and post piracy sales figures. We'd see things like ebook sales up to the point piracy occurred and the resulting drop afterwards.

But you know what? We don't see this. This evidence doesn't exist. Surely if it were true we'd have the evidence, right? It would be right there at your fingertips for you to smack me down with.

Imaginary calculations by groups like the RIAA/MPAA/etc that end up in figures like piracy costing more money than has ever existed in the entire world throughout the history of time isn't going to cut it.

So, if you would like to put up links to credible studies I am more than happy to read them and answer you.

Further to this, I suggest you spend a bit of time online understanding how hypotheses and evidence actually work. We don't "prove" negatives.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I believe we're at the same impasse between the same people as always.  Thread locked, let's move on.  

Betsy
KB moderator


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