# Anyone else skip battle scenes?



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

I was talking to a friend awhile ago about George RR Martin's series, which she really enjoyed.  Except the battle scenes apparently -- she skipped those, which I found surprising since she's retired from the Air Force.  I thought about it (it's been awhile since I read the first three books and I refuse to read the rest until the series is done) and realized I had skipped the battle scenes too, and in fact, I often skip battle scenes in fiction, the same way some people skip sex scenes.  

Fight scenes are different, since fight scenes are usually more up-close-and-personal, though if there are too many fight scenes in a book and not enough actual character development, I may end up skipping the whole book.  So I was curious--anyone else skip battle scenes?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I can't think of any off-hand where I did, and I've read quite a bit of military history and fiction. However, I suspect an interest in military history and fiction probably indicates a predisposition to not mind battle scenes. 

In a weird way, though (or not?), I can see some people not wanting to spend time reading battle or fight scenes being similar to myself generally not caring to spend time reading sex scenes. For me, something no more than a few sentences basically saying, "and then they made <insert adjective here> love like <corny simile here>," often does as much to advance the plot and character development as half a dozen pages of anatomy and three-dimensional geometry lessons. Obviously, some people like to read those sorts of "lessons", and I'm sure that there are cases where they do, in fact, provide character and/or plot development -- but I also suspect those tend not to be my type of book. So it's not hard for me to empathize with those who have no interest in (or even repugnance for) battle/fight scenes, though in my totally biased view and within the genres I read, I'm a lot more likely to find plot and character development in a good battle scene than a sex scene.


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## MalloryMoutinho (Aug 24, 2012)

So where do battle sex scenes fall?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

MalloryMoutinho said:


> So where do battle sex scenes fall?


I just had the weirdest vision there for a moment.

Anyway, maybe in some absurdist dark comedy?


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

Sometimes I find battle and fight scenes the weakest part of a book unless there is a good reason for the action to be taking place and the characters involved are interesting.  Having a "hero" who fights "monsters" every other chapter just isn't enough.   I can enjoy battle scenes, sex scenes, dialogue scenes, or interior monologue scenes if they're done well.  What I see at lot is some authors trying to put in a lot of unnecessary  battle or action scene to make the book more fast paced, and that's when I can start skimming.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Geemont said:


> Sometimes I find battle and fight scenes the weakest part of a book unless there is a good reason for the action to be taking place and the characters involved are interesting. Having a "hero" who fights "monsters" every other chapter just isn't enough. I can enjoy battle scenes, sex scenes, dialogue scenes, or interior monologue scenes if they're done well. What I see at lot is some authors trying to put in a lot of unnecessary battle or action scene to make the book more fast paced, and that's when I can start skimming.


Which is ultimately my answer to a lot of things about books: pretty much _anything_ can work when it's done well and makes sense for the given situation, and anything can totally suck when it's out of place or done poorly. What seems to separate the masters from the hacks is whatever combination of intuition, training, trial-and-error, and hard work it takes to be able to figure it out.


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## MalloryMoutinho (Aug 24, 2012)

I've noticed recently I start skimming through scenes that have almost no dialogue. Probably just my current mood, but I really like to relate to the characters by how they interact. Who knows though, I'll probably be skipping the dialogue and reading the long scenes five months from now. I frequently suffer from genre or style burn-out.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

I skim them (I even skim the more close-up fight scenes) but I find when I skip, I wind up missing something important or interesting. I even skim them in non-fiction - I'm doing that right now with Alison Weir's "Wars of the Roses". I really, really have tried to focus and concentrate on battle scenes but I just find myself on the same page 10 mins later realizing my mind has wandered. So I normally try to stay away from heavily military books - I figured the Wars of the Roses would involve politics as much as battles so I wouldn't be skimming the whole book and so far, it has. There has been a few interesting points in some of the battle descriptions so I'm glad I at least skim them and not skip them completely - like this one:

_"As their forces broke, the Yorkist cavalrymen raced to the horse park behind their own lines and mounted their steeds to give chase. As they thundered past, the King and Warwick, flushed with victory, yelled, 'Spare the commons! Kill the lords!' Their words went unheeded."_


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## gljones (Nov 6, 2012)

Nope, that's some of the best parts in the stuff I read.  Of course I'm a 13 year old in a grown ups body


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## BJ Whittington (Aug 30, 2011)

I have found myself skimming when long descriptions of fortifications are given. Most of the actual battle though, there I read every word.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2012)

It's interesting how you distinguish between 'battle scenes' and 'fight scenes' so what do you consider a big battle told from the close POV of a single character involved in the action? Would that be more of a battle scene or a fight scene?

For me I write battle scenes in the aforementioned way, and prefer to read them written like that too. It seems more like a fight scene that way, granted I also tend to write characters whose individual actions play a huge role in the overall outcome of the battle...


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## cekilgore (Oct 31, 2012)

MalloryMoutinho said:


> I've noticed recently I start skimming through scenes that have almost no dialogue. Probably just my current mood, but I really like to relate to the characters by how they interact. Who knows though, I'll probably be skipping the dialogue and reading the long scenes five months from now. I frequently suffer from genre or style burn-out.


Same. For me, I sometimes have trouble following long descriptions or battle scenes. It really depends on how the scene is written. I prefer choppy short paragraphs (1 to 3 sentences) in scenes like that as apposed to a wall of text that my eyes immediately want to skim over.

RR Martin is an example of books that I love, but also admittedly skim over quite a bit. Goodkind is another. Yes, I get it, there are men with swords attacking. Can we have some dialogue please? No, stop describing the darn trees, I want to hear people talk!


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

NogDog said:


> Which is ultimately my answer to a lot of things about books: pretty much _anything_ can work when it's done well and makes sense for the given situation, and anything can totally suck when it's out of place or done poorly. What seems to separate the masters from the hacks is whatever combination of intuition, training, trial-and-error, and hard work it takes to be able to figure it out.


Thank you Geemont and NogDog -- your comments get at the heart of my feelings as a reader, because now that I think about it, I recently skipped a ton of sex scenes in a particular series because they added nothing to the plot or character development and were poorly written. Yet I also have read some battle scenes with breathless anticipation -- I'm thinking in particular of the scenes in the Lord of the Rings told from the POV of one of the hobbits. I think the POV plays a big role for me, which is maybe why I like certain fight scenes better than battle scenes, as most fight scenes tend to stick with one character's POV. I know many authors writing battle scenes try to stick with one character's POV and technically succeed in this; however, many times there is so much going on in a battle scene that the POV, even if it's limited 3rd person or 1st person, loses some of its emotional impact and becomes a dry recitation of "so-and-so hit so-and-so" which I don't like. It's as bad as those sex scenes NogDog mentioned that become a dry recitation of various parts and pieces, a technical manual when I want to read something with an emotional punch.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

It depends on how long it is. . . .if it starts to really drag on and on I will definitely skim. . . .same for sex scenes or battle scenes. Though sometimes I'm in the mood for a sex scene.  Almost _never_ in the mood to read an extended battle or fight scene.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

cekilgore said:


> I prefer choppy short paragraphs (1 to 3 sentences) in scenes like that as apposed to a wall of text that my eyes immediately want to skim over.


This type of writing tends to bore me. Sometimes it works as in a few crime novels, but otherwise short sentences, short paragraphs, and lots of dialogue will more often than not cause me to set aside the book. But I do love long sprawling sentences that string on for pages as one sold block of text.

As for battle scenes, I think some authors are under the impression that battle is exciting, exciting is good, and lots of battles therefore make the book good. They're mistaken.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2012)

purplepen79 said:


> I know many authors writing battle scenes try to stick with one character's POV and technically succeed in this; however, many times there is so much going on in a battle scene that the POV, even if it's limited 3rd person or 1st person, loses some of its emotional impact and becomes a dry recitation of "so-and-so hit so-and-so" which I don't like.


So would a scene of one character facing off against a whole bunch of others likely seem more like a fight scene or battle scene to you?


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

Just about the only books with battle scenes I read these days are the _Sharpe_ novels, so if I skipped over those I'd miss a quarter of each book including, almost always, the finale.


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## Angela Brown (Nov 16, 2012)

I also tend to skim the battle scenes. I just want to get to the part where I see who was the victor, loser or if it ended in a stalemate. However, when the scene is written fluidly, the scene leaps out in my imagination and I can picture it moment for moment. Those battles or fight scenes tend to not be overly technical as well. No long drawn explanations of too many things or a step-by-step manual of a fight move broken down.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

I cannot recall ever skipping a battle scene.  Then again, I tend not to read too many books that require large battle scenes.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

glutton said:


> So would a scene of one character facing off against a whole bunch of others likely seem more like a fight scene or battle scene to you?


If the scene you outline stays firmly in one character's POV and makes me feel the emotions as well as envision the actions in a convincing way, then I wouldn't notice if I considered it a battle or a fight scene because I would be too caught up in the story to care. However, whenever I start to notice what kind of scene it is, whether sex scene, battle scene, fight scene, eating scene, what-have-you, then I've officially been pulled out of the story, and if I get pulled out the story too much, then I put the book down and move on to something else.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Sure, sometimes. Sometimes an author gets too caught up in details (esp those they favor) and in this case, get too detailed about weapons, techniques, etc. Same with sex scenes.

I like the stage to be set and the story to be told...but if fights or sex scenes or anything else start taking me out of the story into a sidetrack for too long....I usually just skip it and move on. 

(OTOH, I love details that support the story, such as forensic details, so it's not details in general that turn me off.)

Heinlein's Starship Troopers is a good example. Lots of great stuff in that book but I just scanned alot of the battle stuff.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

purplepen79 said:


> I was talking to a friend awhile ago about George RR Martin's series, which she really enjoyed. Except the battle scenes apparently -- she skipped those, which I found surprising since she's retired from the Air Force. I thought about it (it's been awhile since I read the first three books and I refuse to read the rest until the series is done) and realized I had skipped the battle scenes too, and in fact, I often skip battle scenes in fiction, the same way some people skip sex scenes.
> 
> Fight scenes are different, since fight scenes are usually more up-close-and-personal, though if there are too many fight scenes in a book and not enough actual character development, I may end up skipping the whole book. So I was curious--anyone else skip battle scenes?


Nope. Not if they're well written. But I skip sex scenes most of the time. They're almost always boring.

If battles are essential to the story, of course I read them. I'm a huge Cornwell fan. (except for Sharpe which I don't like)

ETA: A properly written battle-scene IS "up close and personal".

There are few things more up close and personal than a lot of people trying to stick you with sharp objects while you try to do the same to them. Then again, I write war fiction so I wouldn't be likely to skip battle scenes, would I?


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> Nope. Not if they're well written. But I skip sex scenes most of the time. They're almost always boring.
> 
> If battles are essential to the story, of course I read them. I'm a huge Cornwell fan.
> 
> ...


Up close and personal--that's how battle scenes should be written, IMO, but often aren't, which is why I skip them. There are few things more up close and personal than sex, but often writers of sex scenes miss this, which is why I skip them on occasion as well. Reading is a form of meditation, and anything that jars me out of the meditative spell a good story puts me in is skip-worthy.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

I for one really enjoyed the underwater battle scenes in Hunt For Red October as they were very easy to follow- 

But I do admit that when an author skips back and forth between the hero POV chapters and the villain POV chapters I do tend to skip the villain stuff in order to get back to reading about the hero- if it's porrly written or goes on too long


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## BJ Whittington (Aug 30, 2011)

I just completed a novel and this thread came to mind. The author took ½ the book to build up to a climatic battle. Which was a considerable read since the book is over 550 pages. Then when the actual scenes arrived, the descriptions were brief, more of a synopsis then a telling of the scene.

I found myself very disappointed.


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## Neil Ostroff (Mar 25, 2011)

Only if the scenes aren't relevant to the story.


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## Will Hadcroft (Sep 29, 2011)

I skip battle scenes, fight scenes, lengthy action scenes -- if they don't progress the plot or develop the characters. I'm more interested in the story.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

BJ Whittington said:


> I just completed a novel and this thread came to mind. The author took ½ the book to build up to a climatic battle. Which was a considerable read since the book is over 550 pages. Then when the actual scenes arrived, the descriptions were brief, more of a synopsis then a telling of the scene.
> 
> I found myself very disappointed.


That would be disappointing--anytime there's a major build-up to something, whether it be a battle, wedding, reunion, magic, what have you--it stinks when it fizzles. It's like seeing the zipper on the monster's costume and realizing it's all a sham.


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## Krystal Wade (Dec 3, 2012)

purplepen79 said:


> I was talking to a friend awhile ago about George RR Martin's series, which she really enjoyed. Except the battle scenes apparently -- she skipped those, which I found surprising since she's retired from the Air Force. I thought about it (it's been awhile since I read the first three books and I refuse to read the rest until the series is done) and realized I had skipped the battle scenes too, and in fact, I often skip battle scenes in fiction, the same way some people skip sex scenes.
> 
> Fight scenes are different, since fight scenes are usually more up-close-and-personal, though if there are too many fight scenes in a book and not enough actual character development, I may end up skipping the whole book. So I was curious--anyone else skip battle scenes?


Wow. I don't think I've ever skipped over a battle scene, definitely sex scenes, but not battles or fights. I love the action. Maybe part of that comes from my love of death and destruction in books--man, if that doesn't sound awful.


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## Patrick Skelton (Jan 7, 2011)

I tend to skip them.  But then again, I also find myself yawning during most action movies.  I guess it's the typical cliche action scenes that I find boring.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2012)

Krystal Wade said:


> Wow. I don't think I've ever skipped over a battle scene, definitely sex scenes, but not battles or fights. I love the action. Maybe part of that comes from my love of death and destruction in books--man, if that doesn't sound awful.


Actually, that sounds AWESOME.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Patrick Skelton said:


> I tend to skip them. But then again, I also find myself yawning during most action movies. I guess it's the typical cliche action scenes that I find boring.


Me too, especially the ones where a lot things blow up for no particular reason. There are exceptions though -- I found myself glued to the screen during the fight/battle scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies. Also _The Dark Knight_ -- I saw that one several times in the theater and couldn't tear my eyes away. I was just waiting to see what the Joker was going to do next and how Batman was going to stop him. Sometimes the action scenes, like sex scenes, are meaningless filler and other times, they develop and add depth to an already fascinating character like the Joker.

And Krystal, I don't think your comment sounds awful at all, just honest. Death and destruction are part of life and part of almost every great story ever told.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

I am a very diligent reader, I usually don't skip anything. The only exception was Leo Tolstoy's _War and Peace_, where I ended up skipping his repeated rants about the role of a person in history (I did read several of them, then I thought enough was enough). There were plenty of battle scenes there, too, but I didn't have any problem with them.


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## Mercius (Aug 28, 2010)

I always enjoyed the battle scenes in L.E. Modesitt's Recluce Series. I was always at the edge of my seat to see how it all played out. I sometimes looked at it as the payoff for all the "wax-on, wax-off" philosophy about chaos and order that's the proper build up to the climactic fight scene of Recluce novel. I also don't think I skipped out on any of Andre Norton's battle scenes. Flight In Yiktor has a great one.

In other words, I think it all depends on how you do it. R.R. Martin I skipped a good bit. Robert Jordan...definitely skipped around. David Eddings...well, the Belgariad were the good ones and I looked forward to every battle, but the Mallorean and others...skipped.


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## dawnaraver (Dec 3, 2012)

I will admit that battle scenes are not my favorite part of books. I listen to many audiobooks and I will admit to allowing my brain to wander. Right now, I listening to Cold Days by Jim Butcher, whom I love. Even though he's the king of UF in my world, even his battle go on too long for me.


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## brianjanuary (Oct 18, 2011)

I love fight/battle scenes. But then, I prefer to read adventure thrillers and fight/battle scenes are the meat the propel the story and reveal character.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I never skip battle/fight scenes. They're one of my favorite parts of a book.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Reading Cornwell's Agincourt has reminded me of perhaps one reason why I skip/skim battle scenes sometimes - I can't deal with limbs getting cut off. It makes me feel physically sick to my stomach, I can literally feel the blood draining from my face and I get dizzy. At a mere hint of it, I think "Okay, let's skip forward a little bit!" It's weird because I can handle most other types of gore pretty well. Brain splattering and guts pouring out is unpleasant but I don't have a physical reaction.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

history_lover said:


> Reading Cornwell's Agincourt has reminded me of perhaps one reason why I skip/skim battle scenes sometimes - I can't deal with limbs getting cut off. It makes me feel physically sick to my stomach, I can literally feel the blood draining from my face and I get dizzy. At a mere hint of it, I think "Okay, let's skip forward a little bit!" It's weird because I can handle most other types of gore pretty well. Brain splattering and guts pouring out is unpleasant but I don't have a physical reaction.


A friend of mine is like this. As soon as the blood starts on the page, she gets light headed.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> A friend of mine is like this. As soon as the blood starts on the page, she gets light headed.


Interesting. The funny thing is that although occasionally a head is chopped off, I rarely have limbs severed because I suspect it happened less than many novels portray. Chopping all the way through a leg, especially a leg encased in any type of armor, just wasn't that easy and these guys weren't superman. You didn't have to severe a limb to kill someone anyway. Chopping through a femoral artery was quite effective. And blood gushed in quite a satisfactory manner. 

ETA: I love both of their writing but imo both Martin and Cornwell tend to exaggerate slightly the damage a normal human does in battle. Mostly people weren't chopped into dogmeat. I am also big on things they often leave out like the guy standing next to you turns and stabs your opponent in the back or chops his legs. One down and a few thousand more to go.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Eyeballs, I draw the line at anything happening to eyeballs  . Flying limbs, blood,  splattered brains, guts eh. But eyeballs? I get sick. 

Knives are a little weird for me too. Swords not as much, but knives are. I have no clue why, I can't even touch the big ones in my house  

I don't read too much stuff with a lot of battle scenes and when I do like in historical fiction its not overwhelming. 
Now if it were to go on and on in Gabaldon style, I'd probably check out.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Sorry if my comments are too close to self-promotion. 

It's a subject that obviously interests me in my reading and writing.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Laura Lond said:


> I am a very diligent reader, I usually don't skip anything. The only exception was Leo Tolstoy's _War and Peace_, where I ended up skipping his repeated rants about the role of a person in history (I did read several of them, then I thought enough was enough). There were plenty of battle scenes there, too, but I didn't have any problem with them.


I skipped John Galt's speech in _Atlas Shrugged _ for somewhat the same reason -- it was basically a 60 page reiteration of Rand's overall theme and I wanted to get back to the story. I felt kinda bad when I found out a few years later that she really slaved over that speech. 

Interesting about people's different aversions when it comes to gore. I can tolerate a certain amount of gore in my reading material but some things put me over the edge -- Poppy Z. Brite's _Exquisite Corpse _ comes to mind. I got about 40 pages into that one and got physically sick.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

purplepen79 said:


> I skipped John Galt's speech in _Atlas Shrugged _ for somewhat the same reason -- it was basically a 60 page reiteration of Rand's overall theme and I wanted to get back to the story. I felt kinda bad when I found out a few years later that she really slaved over that speech.
> 
> Interesting about people's different aversions when it comes to gore. I can tolerate a certain amount of gore in my reading material but some things put me over the edge -- Poppy Z. Brite's _Exquisite Corpse _ comes to mind. I got about 40 pages into that one and got physically sick.


I admire anyone who can slog their way through _Atlas Shrugged_. I'd prefer chopping off a hand or gouging out an eye, or that of a character anyway.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> Interesting. The funny thing is that although occasionally a head is chopped off, I rarely have limbs severed because I suspect it happened less than many novels portray. Chopping all the way through a leg, especially a leg encased in any type of armor, just wasn't that easy and these guys weren't superman. You didn't have to severe a limb to kill someone anyway. Chopping through a femoral artery was quite effective. And blood gushed in quite a satisfactory manner.
> 
> ETA: I love both of their writing but imo both Martin and Cornwell tend to exaggerate slightly the damage a normal human does in battle. Mostly people weren't chopped into dogmeat. I am also big on things they often leave out like the guy standing next to you turns and stabs your opponent in the back or chops his legs. One down and a few thousand more to go.


I think there was only one moment of a limb being chopped off in Agincourt. There was another scene where a canon exploded and blew up everyone around it so body pieces were flying everywhere but that didn't bother me because everyone died instantly.

Cornwell does seem to understand that body pieces don't normally come off with one swift swipe - I remember in The Last Kingdom, it talked about how difficult it was and how long it took to completely severe someone's head.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

history_lover said:


> I think there was only one moment of a limb being chopped off in Agincourt. There was another scene where a canon exploded and blew up everyone around it so body pieces were flying everywhere but that didn't bother me because everyone died instantly.
> 
> Cornwell does seem to understand that body pieces don't normally come off with one swift swipe - I remember in The Last Kingdom, it talked about how difficult it was and how long it took to completely severe someone's head.


True. Generally Cornwell is sticks pretty close to what is physically possible although I know of some cases (such as that of Scotland's King James who was killed by an exploding cannon) where cannons blew up and body pieces didn't fly. I'm a big Cornwell fan and think he writes some of the best battle scenes around. It isn't often he goes over the top.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Also, there are always freak accidents. I would like to see more freak accidents. Those are always fun...in a gory sorta way


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Atunah said:


> Eyeballs, I draw the line at anything happening to eyeballs . Flying limbs, blood, splattered brains, guts eh. But eyeballs? I get sick.


Uh-oh, I can't stand anything happening to eyes either. If I get a hint an eye is about to be put out (like in a torture scene or something) I jump past that part. I can take anything else, but not the eyes.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Finger and toe nails for me, along with breaking fingers individually. I had a thumbnail removed once and I caught my middle finger in a dough machine. I tend to get a little shudder whenever those torture scenes goes after the digits.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Finger and toe nails for me, along with breaking fingers individually. I had a thumbnail removed once and I caught my middle finger in a dough machine. I tend to get a little shudder whenever those torture scenes goes after the digits.


I can't think of much that actually bothers me. I prefer that kids and dogs be left out of it though.


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## NoreeCosper (Dec 5, 2012)

Sometimes I skin fight scenes and battle scenes if they start to go on for too long. I've never actually skipped one.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> I can't think of much that actually bothers me. I prefer that kids and dogs be left out of it though.


Me too. I still can't bring myself to watch sad dog movies. Otherwise I've got a pretty strong stomach when it comes to gruesomeness and gore, as long as it's in service to the story. And especially if it's a true story. As an early Christmas present, a friend just gave me a copy of Miracle in the Andes: 72 Days on the Mountain and My Long Trek Home which then prompted me to re-read Alive. What those guys went through to survive--it's closing on the 40 year anniversary of their rescue. Incredibly gruesome but at the same time, so inspiring. I didn't skip anything in either book.

Now when a story is fictional, my patience with gore grows more fickle. I can think of at least two instances of fictional gore that made me throw the book down in disgust, the aforementioned _Exquisite Corpse_ and Paula Volsky's _The White Tribunal_. The odd thing about that to me is that I really enjoyed Volsky's _Illusion_, which is probably just as gory as _The White Tribunal_. I think perhaps the difference was that the main characters of _Illusion_ felt real to me and so I was caught up in their plight and praying for them to get free, whereas I couldn't connect with the characters in _The White Tribunal _ and so the violence felt gratuitous.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

purplepen79 said:


> Me too. I still can't bring myself to watch sad dog movies. Otherwise I've got a pretty strong stomach when it comes to gruesomeness and gore, as long as it's in service to the story.


That said I must admit I started one of my own novels (nameless to avoid the mod cattle prod for self-promotion) with a dog dying. No one has ever complained, I think because the reader didn't have time to become emotionally invested in the dog. And it is a good setup for the kind of fairly brutal story the novel tells. I stopped reading Stephen King for quite some time when he took to torturing dogs though.

I agree with gore being in service to the story. I have a problem with a lot of thrillers when they use brutal deaths as a "cheap" way of increasing tension. I mean the ones who just throw a dead body at you killed in the most brutal way possible without bothering with a storyline that justifies it. This is pretty common in that genre, which is why I tend to give the genre a pass.


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## Feud_writer (Jan 13, 2013)

I've only just stumbled across this thread but as a writer of historical action novels I've found it very interesting to read the variety of views on this. I always try  - can't say I necessarily succeed - to write battle scenes in a way that gives the reader information or interest over and above who gets stabbed by whom. I take the point about dialogue though a man encased in a helmet can't be heard very well so I tend to use thoughts if words don't work. Since I write in the Wars of the Roses, bloody battles are a fact of life but at an early stage I consciously tried to make the progress through the battle part of the plot rather than just a big fight. 
Having said all that, you also need to give the fighting which is often quite brutal an element of authenticity. I have read battle scenes which I've found boring because they are overlong or simply too descriptive. 
The bottom line is that there needs to be reference to plot or character or the battle has no place in the story.


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## Sean Patrick Reardon (Sep 30, 2010)

Don't read much that would have battle scenes, but I will skip over fight / action scenes, if they don't  seem realistic, or are way over-written.


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## christopherruz (May 5, 2012)

Skipping battle scenes where you already know the outcome, because the characters are massive franchises and quasi-immortal? Sure.

Skipping the battle scenes in a Song of Ice and Fire, where any of your beloved characters can die at any moment? That's just stupid.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

You know, I don't go into it thinking that I'm going to skip it, but there are times when I cut out part of the way through or skim forward from there. I suppose I'd say yes, but only through battle scenes that bore me. Even a guy like Scalzi, whose popcorn sci-fi I love when I'm in the mood, can drag one on too long and lose me.


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## NottiThistledore (Jan 11, 2013)

I tend to skip battle scenes, songs and poetry, and quotes etc at the beginning of chapters. I know, I know, I'm a terrible reader.

That said, I devotedly read front and back matter, including things like the "a note on the type" sections!


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

Most of the fiction I read contains battle scenes so I don't skip them.  I do often find myself skipping over boring bits, generally when nothing is happening, there is an info dump going on or needless and excessive padding by having overly elaborate purple prose description.

Actually, I guess that is why I read mostly short stories nowadays - most of those aren't found in the shorter form, but battles till can be.


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## Jay Walken (Feb 7, 2013)

I don't remember skipping battle scenes in particular, but as a teenager, during a certain phase, I would skip EVERY scene in a book except the ones where the heroine and hero were doing something to/with each other. Sadly, it took a lot of speedreading work to get to those scenes in those pre-50 Shades days.


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## dalton_wolf (Sep 11, 2012)

NottiThistledore said:


> I tend to skip battle scenes, songs and poetry, and quotes etc at the beginning of chapters. I know, I know, I'm a terrible reader.
> 
> That said, I devotedly read front and back matter, including things like the "a note on the type" sections!


HAHA. Nice. 
I skip the sex scenes, the songs and the poetry, and skim the battle scenes, but will come back to read the battle scenes, poetry and songs if it seems not to be too detailed or lengthy. I also read all the appendix, 'about the author' and cover material if I really enjoyed the book--that's the 'bonus material' to me, but I still won't go back and read the sex scenes.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't actually skip much of anything, but I will skim things that seem endless.  It really depends on the book and how well written it is.  Some books I don't want to miss a word.  Others I feel I could miss every other word and not lose anything.  

Betsy


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## Feud_writer (Jan 13, 2013)

Wow! Reading through these posts is a worry. I'm thinking that if I wrote a book with only sex scenes, battles and long descriptions - with maybe a few poems and songs thrown in - then some readers might skip all of it... On the other hand it sounds as if maybe they ought to...


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Feud_writer said:


> Wow! Reading through these posts is a worry. I'm thinking that if I wrote a book with only sex scenes, battles and long descriptions - with maybe a few poems and songs thrown in - then some readers might skip all of it... On the other hand it sounds as if maybe they ought to...


It would certainly be a short read! lol. But seriously, I don't think any one person skips all of those things - different people skip/skim different stuff and I'm sure there are readers who don't ever skip or skim anything. Me, I don't mind sex scenes if it's something that gives me insight into the characters and isn't just randomly thrown in to make it more exciting. Sometimes, exploring a character in their entirety means exploring their sexuality. Songs and poems I do tend to skim because I just find that usually, if the lyrics are important to the story, the characters reactions are enough for me to understand why it's important. I don't need to know the exact wording and I sometimes find the wording rather pretentious.


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## Robena (Jan 19, 2013)

Truthfully, I skim a lot of battle scenes, sex scenes, and the recipes.


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## dalton_wolf (Sep 11, 2012)

history_lover said:


> Songs and poems...I sometimes find the wording rather pretentious.


excuse the edit, but that sums it up for me, only replace 'sometimes' with 'almost always'. But, again, I will go back and read them if I really liked the story.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

Jay Walken said:


> I don't remember skipping battle scenes in particular, but as a teenager, during a certain phase, I would skip EVERY scene in a book except the ones where the heroine and hero were doing something to/with each other. Sadly, it took a lot of speedreading work to get to those scenes in those pre-50 Shades days.


Which phase was this? And what type of books were they? 

Actually I can think of books where I skip whole swaths of descriptive paragraphs. I find I like novels that are concise in their descriptions. But it is a fine line for me, because I hate books that don't describe enough. I wonder if I need to be able to skip things in a book... lack of choice may be what bothers me more.


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## Grace Elliot (Mar 14, 2011)

Steven Hardesty said:


> really awful books, like _Gone With the Wind _and _Ulysses_.


Personal taste alert => I LOVE Gone with the Wind.

As to skipping battle scenes, yes, I hold my hand up. I scan read them just to check no one vital is killed but for me it's about characters, rather than blood and gore.


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## jaywatkins (Apr 18, 2013)

i do with certain authors.  You can just change the names in their fight scenes, because the action is the same scene to scene.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2013)

I tend to skim battle scenes, just increase the pace of my reading a bit and make sure i don't miss any important tidbits. The only book I've actually skipped whole chunks of battle in was in LOTR the battle of helms deep...7 chapters or something of battle was a bit much for the 13yr old me. I do sometimes like the battles when they use interesting tactics, intelligence and resourcefulness is great, like some of the battles in the Axis Trilogy.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Yep, me. Unless they're short, but a lot of battle scenes just go on too long. I'm talking about full scale war type stuff here, not a fight between a couple of people. When it's just a couple of people, it's more personal, as someone else mentioned, so you're more invested in the outcome.


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## Robena (Jan 19, 2013)

Me! I'm a big wuss that way.


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## Adaman14 (Mar 20, 2013)

I don't skip battle scenes but then again I am a nut for military history!  I do find that I skip through religious debates and lengthy religious arguments that occur in some historical fiction.  I can skim and understand the basic context and that is good enough.  Maybe I am getting old but I also skim through lengthy erotic passages.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

I tend to skim or skip through them. I'm more interested in what happens before or after them.

Mike


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## Heffnerh (Feb 1, 2013)

It depends on the genre, but I love a good medieval/supernatural powers fight.


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## Patrick Skelton (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't like action scenes in general.  They just translate as well in novels as they do in movies.  Even in movies, I find action scenes pretty boring most of the time (ironically).  But then again, I'm not into action movies. I like suspense and drama over cheap thrills.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

I have been known to skip battle scenes in books and movies, particularly in movies.  I watched the latest Jason Bourne movie a week or two ago, and fast-forwarded through all of the fight scenes and car chases. That cut the time in half.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Mike D. aka jmiked said:


> I have been known to skip battle scenes in books and movies, particularly in movies. I watched the latest Jason Bourne movie a week or two ago, and fast-forwarded through all of the fight scenes and car chases. That cut the time in half.


#MeToo. I even fast forward the chases (car or on foot) in the latest Bond movies. You know he's going to get away so might as well see it in double-quick time.


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## davart (Nov 12, 2018)

I don't skip battle scenes but try to keep them short and filled with action when using them. I pen science fiction. Some say fantasy. Myself, I'm not a stickler when it comes to categorization. I tend to call myself a word weaver.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

davart said:


> I don't skip battle scenes but try to keep them short and filled with action when using them. I pen science fiction. Some say fantasy. Myself, I'm not a stickler when it comes to categorization. I tend to call myself a word weaver.


Fair enough -- though, I note that this discussion is about READERS and how they feel about battle scenes. 

It probably depends on the book, but I do find, in almost all cases, that big fight scenes -- whether just individuals or larger battles -- are not at all interesting to me and I skim until they're finished. Whether that's a few paragraphs or several pages. I don't care about the 'action' or how well they're written; I don't like to read 'em. (As I think I've said before.  )


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## davart (Nov 12, 2018)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Fair enough -- though, I note that this discussion is about READERS and how they feel about battle scenes.
> 
> It probably depends on the book, but I do find, in almost all cases, that big fight scenes -- whether just individuals or larger battles -- are not at all interesting to me and I skim until they're finished. Whether that's a few paragraphs or several pages. I don't care about the 'action' or how well they're written; I don't like to read 'em. (As I think I've said before.  )


Excuse me for not being a READER.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

davart said:


> Excuse me for not being a READER.


I didn't say you weren't a reader ... my apologies if that's what you thought I was implying. I definitely did NOT mean that.

BUT you clearly answered from the point of view of a _writer_. Writing battle scenes is a worthy topic for the Writer's Cafe. But this topic is about whether and why readers do or do not skip battle scenes in books.

So, when you read battle scenes -- do you read them closely, or do you skip them? What inclines you to one thing or the other? Because, I completely appreciate your inclination to skip or not may inform your own writing when you have to do such a scene. And also: that what folks have said here about their reactions to battle scenes may be helpful to you.


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## davart (Nov 12, 2018)

I humbly apologize, Ann. I will add this. I can read both as a writer or strictly as a reader in which case I read faster and as a speed writer. I merely paint a large letter X over each page and voila! Instant input! So cool! Reading as a writer comes slower because I'm looking closer at the word weaving, etc.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Well...one could broaden this to essentially any type of scene. There are people who will skip love scenes and those who will read them closely. Part of it can just be personal interest in that type of scene. In the bigger picture, I might ask of any author: did you write the scene for a purpose (character and/or plot development), or just for sensationalism or because it's expected? Lots of gory details (of either type of scene  ) with no underlying _purpose_ deserves any skipping that goes on. Then again, in certain genres, there is probably a general expectation that there will be certain types of scenes; so the challenge I pose to authors is to not just write them because they're expected, but so that they actually contribute something to the whole book.

To me, at least, this extract from a "battle scene" (if we can call a confrontation between two men a battle?) added something to my understanding of the main character. YMMV

_"It was almost a mystical experience. I do not know how else to put it. My mind outran time as he neared, and it was as though I had an eternity to ponder the approach of this man who was my brother. His garments were filthy, his face blackened, the stump of his right arm raised, gesturing anywhere. The great beast that he rode was striped, black and red, with a wild red mane and tail. But it really was a horse, and its eyes rolled and there was foam at its mouth and its breathing was painful to hear. I saw then that he wore his blade slung across his back, for its haft protruded high above his right shoulder. Still slowing, eyes fixed upon me, he departed the road, bearing slightly toward my left, jerked the reins once and released them, keeping control of the horse with his knees. His left hand went up in a salute-like movement that passed above his head and seized the hilt of his weapon. It came free without a sound, describing a beautiful arc above him and coming to rest in a lethal position out from his left shoulder and slanting back, like a single wing of dull steel with a minuscule line of edge that gleamed like a filament of mirror. The picture he presented was burned into my mind with a kind of magnificence, a certain splendor that was strangely moving. The blade was a long, scythe like affair that I had seen him use before. Only then we had stood as allies against a mutual foe I had begun to believe unbeatable. Benedict had proved otherwise that night. Now that I saw it raised against me I was overwhelmed with a sense of my own mortality, which I had never experienced before in this fashion. It was as though a layer had been stripped from the world and I had a sudden, full understanding of death itself."_

~ _The Guns of Avalon_, by Roger Zelazny.


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## MatthewE (Oct 3, 2018)

It hurts my brain to skipover any part of a book. It’s easier for me to just put the book down than to skip around.


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## davart (Nov 12, 2018)

Battle scenes, not long ram ones, bring action and adventure into a story. I use them in my science fiction but implement them in a brief, succinct way.


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## bkd-wa (Jan 2, 2019)

I like reading them, and don't skip if they are well researched, action-packed, intense and short. I do not like long drawn multi-page detailed description of battles though, I lose concentration.


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## GFXJames (Dec 22, 2018)

As a reader who never writes (other than eventual comic stories).....I used to read a lot more as a teen than now, no less than two books per week (in Spanish, my first language. Today is 50/50 with English)....And that was too long ago, lol. But usually, I don't skip battle scenes. I read philosophy books today more than novels. And I find that some of those books I read them not only skipping parts, but even doing my own set of random jump backwards and forward. A bit weird, I know ( I never do that with other type of books). Battles in fiction, no I don't skip them, but neither any other chunk. If I feel the need to skip something it's all going to the drain already for me with that book. I try never to leave a book in the middle, even if finding it slightly boring, telling myself "it will get better" (if it's horrid I leave the challenge...). I loved how Tolkien used to narrate battles.

In movies, never skip them (unless is too gore and am having a delicious dinner, lol).  Also, have worked doing 3D and some video editing, so, I have special interest in watching some details of those scenes.

I remember skipping though some too long, full page landscape descriptions of Zane Gray's western novels. As a teen reader, I was more into pure action....


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## GFXJames (Dec 22, 2018)

Oh, was forgetting... A particular case of skipping... Not long ago, I was offered to draw a full comic album, quite long, and while reading the script, I decided not only to stop reading, but realizing I wouldn't want to draw any of that. The story was solid, quite good in keeping the reader engaged, but after a third quite brutal (not just even usual gore) scene of torture ( with sick level of detail) and sadistic long parts, together with the fact that cruelty was clearly a predominant obsession there, even shadowing the actual story, and well, while that's as real as it can get in this world, and denying that would be stupid, decided not to draw that whole script, even being a good occasion for promotion and getting some very nice paycheck. Some friends told me that for that money, should have gone for it, but they have never drawn during hours sth that you completely hate/dislike... 

In general today I'm way more picky with what I read than when I was as a teen.

The difficult part was how to say no to that project after we had exchanged a few mails, though I had not agreed, and wouldn't till reading the whole script. He understood,  but seems has had his hopes high. It was a pretty hard thing to do, even with the most polite and delicate use of my words, so, since then, I always read fully first the entire script. If is provided.


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## JohnAndrewKarr (Feb 9, 2019)

Battle scenes and smaller scale violence are powerful devices in writing and reading. I wouldn't skip them unless they were really poorly done. Where else can you safely engage in such scenes? They have to be tempered, and have purpose in furthering the plot, but I'll definitely read them.

On a lesser scale, writing itself can be a type of violence, as per my favorite book on writing, If You Want To Write by Brenda Ueland https://www.amazon.com/If-You-Want-Write-Independence/dp/1627556214/


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## ChamomileHasANovel (Feb 12, 2018)

If I find myself skipping scenes, it's a very good indication that the book is circling the drain for me. I'm always worried about missing something important if I skip a few paragraphs, and if I'm doing it anyway, that means one of two things: The book has consistently proven that these scenes are a waste of time, or else I'm so bored with a book that confusion as to what's going on would be a step up from the malaise.


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## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Funny, a book is a battle, it has to hold my attention. So by 600 words in, there better be something going on to hold my attention - otherwise it _*IS*_ a battle to read the book, usually I drop it. Me 1 Book 0 - time saved - I win the battle. See, I do skip battle scenes by skipping out early ... 

Too, maybe the battle scene is all fluff to blow out word count, it does not feel like a real epiphany going on and adds nothing to the story. Yeah skip it. - fake and fluffy word count just adds to the books loss of a reader ...


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I definitely skip lengthy battle scenes as it's usually obvious who is going to win in the end, and that's all I need to know. I also skipped the detailed boxing match in _The Power of One_ as I knew who had to win. I fast-forward car chases in films and even fast-forward the James Bond chases. I guess it boils down to the fact that I like to read/watch character interactions rather than action (or bloated descriptions of the scenery).


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I don't usually read books with battle scenes. There may be small fights but not huge battle scenes. I may skim such scenes, but I think they are very important to the story and many readers. Sometimes I skim and pick out the bits I think are important. 

If I'm writing such a scene I'll do a lot of research for it because I know nothing about fighting and want to get the moves as realistic as I can. I go overboard with this research. I have one or two books with Krav Maga in the house because I'm thinking of adding such a scene. I can't get a library book because I may forget the moves. To go through my bookcase you'd find books on fighting, killing, poisoning, bomb making and other delicacies.  I was even honored with an in home interview from the FBI for my trouble. Someone reading an e-mail question on this very forum asked the FBI to interview me. I actually enjoyed my FBI interview (more research) and the interviewer tried to answer my question. I could tell she'd done a bit of research about me from the questions and she told me about a police course that I could take. I did take the eleven week police course and totally enjoyed it even had a go at shooting and tasering. Don't anyone else report me I'm 76  on Monday and I think the FBI has plenty of more genuine criminals to chase.


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## Ryan W. Mueller (Jul 14, 2017)

I love battle scenes. The key for me as a reader is that the author has variety in their battle scenes. If it's the same type of battle over and over, it can grow repetitive and boring.


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## n.f.g.jr (Mar 16, 2019)

Battle scenes should have a purpose, IMO, they should move character development and relationships along. 
I find long detailed battles difficult to write as I become bored, so I keep mine short.
Also I hate to skim a book but I will for sex scenes. Rarely are they interesting or realistic. However I do like a good romance scene, the flirting etc.
Well that's my 3 cents.


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## Allen Rivers (Jun 28, 2019)

I don't love action scenes but I think that's because I find that they're often not done well. I think of King in particular. I'm a huge fan of his writing but there are plenty of let downs (particularly in the Dark Tower Series) when it's time for action. When an action scene is done well I enjoy it even though they aren't my favorite parts. In my own writing, I try to take my time and do a good job - I feel like poorly done action scenes just take me out of the book.


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## melsurani (Jun 2, 2019)

I tend not to read many books that would have a battle scene in it, but sometimes I get a fantasy book (Lord of the Rings was one), and I skim the battles. I just want the summary at the end of who died and where we go from here. 
I also skip song lyrics.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

melsurani said:


> ...
> I also skip song lyrics.


I tend to skip lyrics and poems inserted into the text of novels if they're more than a few lines long...and feel vaguely guilty for doing so.


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