# Calling all Superhero Writers (and fans)!



## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Hello everyone!  I was thinking that we should start a superhero genre thread.  Maybe one to share best practices in what we are doing, what we have found is working and what isn't.  It seems to be a genre that many love, but at the same time it's a hard nut to crack.  Starting with the genre:  what do you categorize your books on Amazon in?  The superhero cat seems dominated by comics, and that just doesn't feel like the right genre.  Just because someone enjoys comics, that doesn't' mean they will enjoy reading a novel.  Are you finding success in KU or going wide?  Also, how do you market?  There is a huge support network for so many types of fiction...maybe we need to start one. Captain America 3 (and some other SH movies) is hitting this spring.  Why aren't we able to capitalize on that fandom?  It is definitely out there.  
Personally, I am at work on my third novel, and once it drops I'm going to start the promotions.  I wanted to have a complete series before I launched a full tilt assault on the marketing train.  But even without promoting I'm seeing marginal success with what I released.  Decent sales when it launched, and good KENP reads.  But I know I can do better once I complete the trilogy.  I was just wondering if others were seeing a bigger demand.  Any interest in cross promoting when these movies hit?  Or just swap some ideas.  I'm up for anything lol.
Later,
MJ


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Yay!  I get to be one of those people that posts in a thread merely to make it easier to keep tabs on the thread in the future because I have nothing to add but want to read the input offered by others because my next book (currently in the hands of beta readers) is sorta superhero-ish.  Woohoo!


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Yay! I get to be one of those people that posts in a thread merely to make it easier to keep tabs on the thread in the future because I have nothing to add but want to read the input offered by others because my next book (currently in the hands of beta readers) is sorta superhero-ish. Woohoo!


Yes! Nice to meet you. Look forward to hearing how things are going with your book as well. Lets make Superheroes as big as the Romance category!


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## shellabee (Aug 4, 2015)

I have no superhero material published but I am working on a serial-ish supers project with another writer and am looking forward to this thread.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Mjcaan said:


> Hello everyone! I was thinking that we should start a superhero genre thread. Maybe one to share best practices in what we are doing, what we have found is working and what isn't. It seems to be a genre that many love, but at the same time it's a hard nut to crack. Starting with the genre: what do you categorize your books on Amazon in? The superhero cat seems dominated by comics, and that just doesn't feel like the right genre. Just because someone enjoys comics, that doesn't' mean they will enjoy reading a novel. Are you finding success in KU or going wide? Also, how do you market? There is a huge support network for so many types of fiction...maybe we need to start one. Captain America 3 (and some other SH movies) is hitting this spring. Why aren't we able to capitalize on that fandom? It is definitely out there.
> Personally, I am at work on my third novel, and once it drops I'm going to start the promotions. I wanted to have a complete series before I launched a full tilt assault on the marketing train. But even without promoting I'm seeing marginal success with what I released. Decent sales when it launched, and good KENP reads. But I know I can do better once I complete the trilogy. I was just wondering if others were seeing a bigger demand. Any interest in cross promoting when these movies hit? Or just swap some ideas. I'm up for anything lol.
> Later,
> MJ


I tried superheros it didn't work for me. Not sure there is a big audience for it. Though some have done well in it.


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## PG Allison (Oct 7, 2015)

I'd be interested in cross promoting.  I'm in KDP so I only have 5 free days per quarter which I use for book one in my series.  I happen to be running a Booksends ad today which currently has me at #4 in the Free Store Superhero category:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #776 Free in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Free in Kindle Store)
    #4 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superhero 

Now that I have five books in this series, my income is better than 2K per month.  Not a huge success but it's enough to keep me writing more books.  I'm hoping to publish book six in this series in April.  Book five resulted in a huge sales spike and, as others here are always pointing out, releasing more books is the best way to promote.


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## TellestAuthor (Apr 2, 2012)

My books are medieval fantasy x superheroes, though not marketed explicitly as such.  For a while in 2011 I was doing fairly well with it, but a change in my covers may be at some fault for the drop in popularity (or my failings as a writer finally caught up with me!).

In any case, I'm still clinging onto hope that the next book I write will get me the attention I need to give the 8 books I currently have some momentum.


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## C. Michael Wells (Feb 26, 2014)

In general, I think the biggest issue with superhero's in written form is that most superheroes are somewhat boing and do not progress. Captain America, Thor, and Iron man are the same person (give or take a little) as they have been for the last few decades. So while comics can be awesome and summer superhero movies are great, their seems to be little room for that character growth in novel form.

I tend to think the Anti-hero books do better. A look at the Amazon super-hero genre seems to agree. Once you get past all the shifter romance novels that have been inappropriately categorized you see novels like Ex-Heroes, Good Intentions: A Super villain story, and Vicious. For film adaptations, think Jessica Jones and Daredevil. It isn't always clear that these characters are going to do the moral thing and the plot leaves a lot of room for character growth.

I enjoy reading comics but I've never come across a genuine superhero novel that just grabbed me and made me an instant fan. The genre (at least imo) lacks the big books that will pull a fan base in. The King killer Chronicles and GRRM got me into epic fantasy.  Heinlein got me into space fleet and space marine sci-fi. To a newer extent, Dresden files made me a fan of Urban fantasy and Butcher's new The Cinder Spires series even made me a fan of Steam Punk. I haven't come across that type of book in the Superhero genre, but I hope it comes a long. I definitely feel it is a genre untapped.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

shellabee said:


> I have no superhero material published but I am working on a serial-ish supers project with another writer and am looking forward to this thread.


Welcome aboard! Everyone's thoughts are valued here.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

C. Michael Wells said:


> In general, I think the biggest issue with superhero's in written form is that most superheroes are somewhat boing and do not progress. Captain America, Thor, and Iron man are the same person (give or take a little) as they have been for the last few decades. So while comics can be awesome and summer superhero movies are great, their seems to be little room for that character growth in novel form.
> 
> I tend to think the Anti-hero books do better. A look at the Amazon super-hero genre seems to agree. Once you get past all the shifter romance novels that have been inappropriately categorized you see novels like Ex-Heroes, Good Intentions: A Super villain story, and Vicious. For film adaptations, think Jessica Jones and Daredevil. It isn't always clear that these characters are going to do the moral thing and the plot leaves a lot of room for character growth.
> 
> I enjoy reading comics but I've never come across a genuine superhero novel that just grabbed me and made me an instant fan. The genre (at least imo) lacks the big books that will pull a fan base in. The King killer Chronicles and GRRM got me into epic fantasy. Heinlein got me into space fleet and space marine sci-fi. To a newer extent, Dresden files made me a fan of Urban fantasy and Butcher's new The Cinder Spires series even made me a fan of Steam Punk. I haven't come across that type of book in the Superhero genre, but I hope it comes a long. I definitely feel it is a genre untapped.


Thank you for this post. This is the type of feedback we need. I think that the problem is still getting our work in front of mainstream eyes. No wonder marketers make the money they do. Do you think you would be more likely to give a book a try if it were categorized as action/adventure rather than superhero?


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

I have only one book finished so far, and it isn't even for sale yet (waiting to hear back from my new editor after my first one bailed for personal reasons), while I have to completed (and edited) short stories set within the universe. I'm waiting until the first novel is out before I hit the publish button on the short stories. I'm also 1/3rd through the 2nd book. While there will be a 3rd, I'll have to see how they sell before I do a 4th. I also have a 6 book outline for another (non-superhero, more sci-fi) series that takes place within the same universe, though I don't know when I'll do that.

To whoever wrote about how superheroes don't progress, that's generally true (and I'll never forgive DC for getting rid of Dick-Bats). My series will have time skips between books. The first two are in high school, the third is college, and if I do a fourth it would have him married and have a kid. Ultimately, I'd like to end it with his death, at some point down the road.

As for marketing, I'm going to try a blog tour, and maybe see if I can get on a few superhero/comic book news websites, although it's unlikely. I also put together an amazing animated trailer that I hope to use with facebook marketing as well as having it show up at the end of a semi-popular youtube movie/book review show or two, if I can manage. (While I'm waiting until the first book is released to post the trailer, anyone can PM me and I'll send a link.)

Unfortunately, superheroes don't seem to have much success in prose, save for Soon I Will Be Invincible. But that doesn't mean it won't. For the longest time, superheroes didn't have much success in movies, and now they do, and dystopian-fiction didn't dominate the young adult market until the Hunger Games. As long as we write good stories, it's only a matter of time.


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## George Saoulidis (Feb 2, 2016)

By the way, Brandon Sanderson just delivered a home run with the Reckoners trilogy. I bought the whole thing and got hooked badly.


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## C. Michael Wells (Feb 26, 2014)

Mjcaan said:


> Thank you for this post. This is the type of feedback we need. I think that the problem is still getting our work in front of mainstream eyes. No wonder marketers make the money they do. Do you think you would be more likely to give a book a try if it were categorized as action/adventure rather than superhero?


I would never see it. I never browse the Action/adventure category. I think one of the biggest problems for super hero novels is that the superhero genre on amazon is one of the hardest to browse as it seems to have one of the higher miscast books in the category. I get why it happens. The genre is small and easy to rank high in, but this has made it one of the more frustrating genre's to browse. If I have to glance over 15 books to see 5 potential novels that I may by, I may just go browse a different category

Additionally, my best guess is that the fans of the written superhero genre are small - probably smaller that even steam punk. So the built in audience is small. A character based antihero book with a stand out villain and protagonist is a book that would catch my eye.

Edit; IF you see what Marvel are doing with their movies you will see that they are basing their superhero movies in different genres. Antman was a heist Flick. The Winter Soldier was a Spy Thriller. Guardians of the Galaxy was a space Opera. Maybe going this route and getting your novel into a different genre would work. For example - cyberpunk would be a great environment for a superhero to operate in. The Matrix was essentially a superhero movie but they made it into a cyberpunk classic by focusing less on the Superhero aspect of the story.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I've got a superhero serial that doesn't do that great. There are several problems with the superhero genre on Amazon:

First and foremost is the categorization problem. Amazon now allows you to choose Superheroes as one of the categories in KDP so you don't even need to choose an appropriate keyword to get into it. The problem with this is that Amazon still hasn't figured out to put books like this in the superhero category. Every time I publish a new installment and check out the categories for my book, it's listed in Books>Sci-Fi/Fantasy>Fantasy>Superheroes but it NEVER gets listed in Kindle Store>Sci-Fi/Fantasy>Fantasy>Superheroes. I've had to email KDP support every single time.

The other problem is that the superhero category is chock-full of inappropriately classified books. Looking at the best-sellers in the Superhero category in the Kindle Store, two of them actually seem like they're honest-to-god superhero books--Armageddon Girl and Calamity. Court of Nightfall is dystopian fantasy, Oasis and 2287 AD look like dystopian sci-fi, Sea Change seems like urban fantasy, and Hard Luck Hank looks like sci-fi satire. 

But all the rest is vampire/shifter erotica. There's one author whose works continually are miscategorized as superhero books. I don't know if this is being done intentionally or if it's a quirk of Amazon, but it really needs to freaking stop. This annoys the crap out of me not only as a superhero author, but as a superhero reader because I can't find the books I want to read.

Whenever I find these books, I report them to Amazon as being miscategorized. I think we should all be doing that to send Amazon a message to fix this problem.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Not sure how to respond to this post helpfully. I write in the superhero genre, and plan to continue for at least two more novels. I published my first in a trilogy back in Sept 2014, see signature below, and it has performed well enough that I quit my job to work on the sequel in Jan 16. I don't know that I can give any marketing advice specifically targeted at moving a "Superhero" book, other than that you will definitely want an audiobook made.

I use the SH category, but the MC of The Never Hero doesn't run around in a costume or any of the standard cliches. That, and I made a point of having real relatable characters who react to extraordinary situations in believable ways. This has been the source of the books best reviews, but its also been the source of its most critical. Luckily, this has been weighted toward the positive side of the spectrum.

I'll give you my favorite example of a character reacting believably to an extraordinary situation... taken sorta-kinda from the book.

Say you have super strength and are somewhat harder to kill than a mere man. Now, a large blood thirsty monster is attacking the city and the police arsenal doesn't seem to be capable of bringing it down. You have powers, but you have no idea how to fight a blood thirsty monster on a killing spree... that is apparently just as powerful as you are. The monster also has no reservations about violence, and from the news reports you've seen, this doesn't look like its first rodeo.

In comic books, the main character quickly realizes he is the only one to deal with the situation and heroically runs off to save the day... 
In real life, this would take a truly exceptional, and amazing stupid, individual.

Its like volunteering to be in a cage match with a bear. Why, because if you are the only one strong enough to 'maybe' deal with the threat, no one can help you, and you are just as likely to get killed and have the Monster immediately return to the killing spree after its done with you. Essentially, the most likely outcome, you slowed it down for a bit while it killed you. You probably pooped your pants on television in the process.

Now lets say you do go out there and fight the thing, kill it, and survive... you don't walk away from an experience like that the same person. Ask anyone who has ever been in a real life firefight or some such... We are talking PTSD here...nightmares... and a therapy bill. If said hero walks away proudly into the sunset, well congrats, but your hero may be a sociopath 

Point here, your hero should see the reality, not a comic book lens of reality.

All that said, the book has done well. I keep a Indie Publishing Resources page on my blog, you can find it here: http://telleryhodges.com/1007-2/

I also did an interview awhile back when the book first started to find its audience, it essentially has a play by play of my marketing strategy up to that point. I don't know if it is a perfect formula for every book but it might give you some ideas: http://rockingselfpublishing.com/hodges/


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Hey there!

I've been writing superhero/villain stuff for a year now. Piddled around with some short fiction to test the waters, and soften things up for my first novel's launch. The short fiction did okay, but the novel's been going aces so far since its launch last November.

I used to categorize my stuff as Superhero/urban fantasy, due to the presence of magical stuff in the stories, but after seeing my poor li'l books go up against the covers full of shirtless torsos, I figured out that sci-fi (Action adventure) was a better category for me.

My stuff had a slight advantage coming in... I have some fans on a couple of fanfic boards that I post stories on, who were very happy to support my publishing endeavors. They helped my novel to a healthy launch, and were pretty dang happy to get a professional-quality book from me. So happy in fact that I'm turning the novel into the first of a trilogy, and soldiering on with two sequels. It seems to be the thing to do. 

I went narrow in KU and didn't look back, and it's slowly becoming 2-3 fifths of my monthly profits. The reception is good, and it's a rare day I don't pull 2-3K in KENP. Small potatoes to some, but I'm fine with it for now. 

Marketing is an ongoing experience. I did a few minor promotional things... a local book signing, a couple of blog crossposts, the like... but for the most part I'm not dropping any real money until I've got more books out there. After that I'll look at going wide, or buying ads, or doing the other things I see people do on these boards.

My long-term strategy, though, is to build up enough books set in my supers universe that I'll have a fully-fleshed out setting with lots of room for growth, and a myriad of awesome characters to tool around with. Ever read the Wild Cards stuff? That's the kind of end product I want. Wild Cards did well enough back in the day, and it had the right idea... the only way to get a superheroic universe like Marvel or DC already has is to build it up bit by bit, be patient, and take the long view.

At the end of the day, Superheroes is a fresh little subgenre that has plenty of room for new authors. There aren't any real outstanding polarizing books, but there are some good ones in there if you go digging, and some big names starting to step into the field. It'll never be romance or urban fantasy, but it doesn't need to be. It's ours, for now, and that's enough.


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## shellabee (Aug 4, 2015)

C. Michael Wells said:


> In general, I think the biggest issue with superhero's in written form is that most superheroes are somewhat boing and do not progress. Captain America, Thor, and Iron man are the same person (give or take a little) as they have been for the last few decades. So while comics can be awesome and summer superhero movies are great, their seems to be little room for that character growth in novel form.


This applies 100% correctly when you choose to apply it. Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man don't change because they choose to keep them unchanged so they can sell those comics forever and ever and ever. They are unlimited series franchise money-makers.

Look at limited series in comic books though, ones with new characters or previously-minor characters given leading roles. I've been out of the comics scene for a long time now, so I don't have any contemporary examples, but a limited series with new characters allows the growth and change that perennial favorites don't get.

If you're writing a Captain America, Thor, or Iron Man novel? Yeah, you're stuck with them as they are, more or less. If you're writing a novel starring new characters of your own creation, you can do anything you want with them. Grow them. Change them. Even kill them. You're allowed to. In fact, it's encouraged.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

bpmanuel said:


> Superhero is a trademark owned jointly by DC and Marvel respectively. It's stupid.


Yes, I know. But Amazon has a category for it that includes books other than those published by Marvel and DC.


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## JBoyett (Nov 10, 2015)

I've been interested for a while in trying to write a superhero book, but haven't been able to figure out a way to make it work. I feel like if I were collaborating with an artist I could script a really cool superhero comic book, but my characters generally wind up seeming a bit thin when I try putting them into prose and narrating from inside their head. Doesn't mean it can't be done, I just haven't managed it yet.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

I'm in. Working on a collaborative work for sometime.

I have been wondering if people have been using Superhero, as DC/Marvel own the TM.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

"A Superhero Serial" is my subtitle. So far, no complaints. If Marvel/DC care enough to say something about it, then I'll change it to "A Superhuman Serial" or something.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> I have been wondering if people have been using Superhero, as DC/Marvel own the TM.


It really is a generic term, and it shouldn't hold up, but whatever, it's impossible to fight. However, they own the TRADEMARK. That means they can only sue you if you used the word "superhero" in the title (Like how DC can have a Captain Marvel in the comic, they just can't call the comic Captain Marvel. Same with Marvel and Sandman.) Within the book, you can use it. I hate when everyone tries to use a different name when the real one is legally sound to use. (I'm a law student, currently nearing the end of my 3L year)

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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Thanks for starting this thread, Mjcaan. My next book is going to be a superhero novel.
I'm studying the genre (a la Chris Fox) and plan on starting the outline early next month for the first in my series. I'll definitely be following this thread.

I definitely think there is a market for novel-length SH fiction. Sure, there are only a handful of actual superhero books in the Top 100, but I think that shoes that there is a market for it.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I've got TWO books out in the Captain Nothing series.



Also my three story collection, BIGFOOT TRACKS takes a look at the question "What if Bigfoot was a superhero?" as well as pitting a uniquely Canadian superhero up against the Frankenstein monster.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> It really is a generic term, and it shouldn't hold up, but whatever, it's impossible to fight. However, they own the TRADEMARK. That means they can only sue you if you used the word "superhero" in the title (Like how DC can have a Captain Marvel in the comic, they just can't call the comic Captain Marvel. Same with Marvel and Sandman.) Within the book, you can use it. I hate when everyone tries to use a different name when the real one is legally sound to use. (I'm a law student, currently nearing the end of my 3L year)


Thanks for the clarification, Michael. And yes, I was referring to the title.


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## jbridger (Aug 13, 2012)

Def like the idea for the thread and I agree on a few things:

1) Actually, I'd not risk of using something DC owns. Long story short, I know they have excellent and fast acting lawyers, not worth it.

2) Similarly, of course, means you have to avoid being derivative or sue-able too.

3) I think that there are tons of fans of DC and Marvel but that's sort of it in that they might love the films or shows or comics. However, it's those established characters they keep coming for. Also Fanfiction too. I think people do love superhero stories (see Chronicle's take on it) but they also love going to the universe they know sometimes more than the tropes

4) That said, I like to read powers and origin stories and etc so I think a lot of people do too. I think you can build as some have and that it seems like an underserved market especially since flooded with freaking mislabeled romance. I love that genre but not when it's mislabeled or I'm looking for heroes!

5) However I actually think the fact sometimes superhero films are mixed with different subgebre need is a great point! I think it's okay if one is more dystopian or spy thriller or magical based. I mean, Constantine isn't Batman isn't Superman isn't Wondy and each on their own have their own appeal or traditions. 

6) I actually think if you marry it well to another subgenre as well you might do better at least with algorithms or crossover appeal. I don't mean a cheat but think of how it can organically be two things at once.

I think that's about it but excited for this thread and seeing others' ideas.


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## jbridger (Aug 13, 2012)

Def like the idea for the thread and I agree on a few things:

1) Actually, I'd not risk of using something DC owns. Long story short, I know they have excellent and fast acting lawyers, not worth it.

2) Similarly, of course, means you have to avoid being derivative or sue-able too.

3) I think that there are tons of fans of DC and Marvel but that's sort of it in that they might love the films or shows or comics. However, it's those established characters they keep coming for. Also Fanfiction too. I think people do love superhero stories (see Chronicle's take on it) but they also love going to the universe they know sometimes more than the tropes

4) That said, I like to read powers and origin stories and etc so I think a lot of people do too. I think you can build as some have and that it seems like an underserved market especially since flooded with freaking mislabeled romance. I love that genre but not when it's mislabeled or I'm looking for heroes!

5) However I actually think the fact sometimes superhero films are mixed with different subgebre need is a great point! I think it's okay if one is more dystopian or spy thriller or magical based. I mean, Constantine isn't Batman isn't Superman isn't Wondy and each on their own have their own appeal or traditions. 

6) I actually think if you marry it well to another subgenre as well you might do better at least with algorithms or crossover appeal. I don't mean a cheat but think of how it can organically be two things at once.

I think that's about it but excited for this thread and seeing others' ideas.


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

In my opinion, the #1 thing that will set you up for success in the genre is to *invest in a good cover.*

Just ask Keith Soares. His book, "For I Could Lift My Finger and Black Out the Sun" wasn't selling well. He got a new cover, and now he's in the Top 5,000. I believe that's one of the main reasons why my books have sold so well. The Second Super took off while it was still up for preorder. Why would anybody preorder the first book in a series from somebody they've never heard of? Good cover, good blurb.

The readers of this genre are very visual people. It's what they've always associated Superhero's with. Superhero's started out in comic form, a visual medium. They've made billions as movies, a visual medium. Reading isn't a visual medium. The only chance you have to visually hook a Superhero reader is with your cover. That's why you've got to make sure it's a good one.


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## jbridger (Aug 13, 2012)

Haha! You're the case in point Logan. I was trying to research the genre and saw your cover and it and definitely the blurb got me interested. I bought it right up!

Also sorry for the double post, phone is weird.


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

jbridger said:


> Haha! You're the case in point Logan. I was trying to research the genre and saw your cover and it and definitely the blurb got me interested. I bought it right up!
> 
> Also sorry for the double post, phone is weird.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha! Thanks! Hope you enjoy.

Fun fact: I didn't even have the idea for the story until I saw the cover. It's a pre-made from Damonza. I'd been working on a different Superhero story, but when I saw that cover and the way the model just stood there amongst the destruction like "yeah, whatever, I just did all that", I knew I had to write a story for that cover.


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## jbridger (Aug 13, 2012)

That's amazing. I thought that had to be commissioned 


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

Nope! All the rest have been, but the first one wasn't. I always browse Damonza's covers whenever I'm looking for a story idea now. I've picked up a couple more premades from them that I plan to write books for later on this year!


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

'Superhero' is the actual, official BISAC category, so you are in no danger of running afoul a trademark by listing the genre.

The problem the genre labors under is the fact that it became an official literary genre under BISAC (the categories everyone in the book business but Amazon uses) two years ago and that coincided with the whole 'lie as hard as possible about your genre so you can get into the top 10 of a subgenre' trend, rendering it useless for actual superhero fans because it's vampires all the way down.

Amazon adds insult to injury by listing it as a subgenre of _Fantasy_ of all things. Traditionally, it's been a subgenre of Sci-Fi, and is now officially it's own genre under the supergenre Speculative Fiction--so no one looking for that category in the logical places on Amazon will ever find it.

But the major advantage here is just how much the genre has to grow on. Someone mentioned the stagnation of mainstream comic characters (which... not really, but I digress. Iron Man - Demon in a Bottle, Captain America - Nomad, US Agent, etc), but this is a genre that's already birthing tons of new subgenres: Super School, Villain, Normals in Super World, etc. There is a lot of unexplored territory for people to play with and the past 25 years of comics has moved so far from the classic audience-pleasers that Marvel is no reviving to dominate the movies that there is a lot of past to delve into as well.

Of course, if Man of Steel is anything to go by, Batman vs Superman may literally be so awful it destroyed the genre forever.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> "A Superhero Serial" is my subtitle. So far, no complaints. If Marvel/DC care enough to say something about it, then I'll change it to "A Superhuman Serial" or something.


I don't use the term Superhero in the book at all. in my case, they are individuals that have been altered to ave enhanced abilities. You never know when Marvel or DC could decide to be d--ks about something.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> It really is a generic term, and it shouldn't hold up, but whatever, it's impossible to fight. However, they own the TRADEMARK. That means they can only sue you if you used the word "superhero" in the title (Like how DC can have a Captain Marvel in the comic, they just can't call the comic Captain Marvel. Same with Marvel and Sandman.) Within the book, you can use it. I hate when everyone tries to use a different name when the real one is legally sound to use. (I'm a law student, currently nearing the end of my 3L year)
> I wasn't sure about that. I never used the term Superhero in the book itself.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Will C. Brown said:


> Thanks for starting this thread, Mjcaan. My next book is going to be a superhero novel.
> I'm studying the genre (a la Chris Fox) and plan on starting the outline early next month for the first in my series. I'll definitely be following this thread.
> 
> I definitely think there is a market for novel-length SH fiction. Sure, there are only a handful of actual superhero books in the Top 100, but I think that shoes that there is a market for it.


Welcome aboard! There is definitely a market. The trick is going to be finding a way to crack the category. Or figuring out the best sub-genre for this books.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

jbridger said:


> Def like the idea for the thread and I agree on a few things:
> 
> 1) Actually, I'd not risk of using something DC owns. Long story short, I know they have excellent and fast acting lawyers, not worth it.
> 
> ...


All great points. I think the trick is not to call it SH. I mean, for me, it's just another form of action and sci-fi. I use believable characters that would react the way a normal human being would react, even if they do have abnormal abilities. It's more a character driven/ discovery story. I think when most people think SH they think spandex. My characters aren't like that.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

Mjcaan said:


> All great points. I think the trick is not to call it SH. I mean, for me, it's just another form of action and sci-fi. I use believable characters that would react the way a normal human being would react, even if they do have abnormal abilities. It's more a character driven/ discovery story. I think when most people think SH they think spandex. My characters aren't like that.


Why? You CAN and should call them superheroes-- just not in the title. Technically, you can have a character called Superman, so long as he bears no resemblance to DC's Superman, and his name doesn't appear on the cover. I've taken copyright and trademark law. You're in the clear. Having the word 'superhero' on the cover though, would make Marvel and DC obligated to sue you, because if they don't attempt to protect their trademark, they lose it. (That's why you hear about all these frivolous cases, they legally have to. But using Superhero in the book itself would be fine. The case would not only be thrown out if they attempted to sue, but they'd likely be fined as well.)

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> Why? You CAN and should call them superheroes-- just not in the title. Technically, you can have a character called Superman, so long as he bears no resemblance to DC's Superman, and his name doesn't appear on the cover. I've taken copyright and trademark law. You're in the clear. Having the word 'superhero' on the cover though, would make Marvel and DC obligated to sue you, because if they don't attempt to protect their trademark, they lose it. (That's why you hear about all these frivolous cases, they legally have to. But using Superhero in the book itself would be fine. The case would not only be thrown out if they attempted to sue, but they'd likely be fined as well.)
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


Good to know. I don't know why I thought you couldn't use the word at all. This is good to know, it definitely helps with my third book and what's going on with some of the characters now. 
Now, if only we can figure out a way to get all the erotica and romance out of the category lol.


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## Hans Cummings (May 16, 2011)

The first novel I ever wrote was a superhero novel. I still haven't done anything with that manuscript. It took place (chiefly) in NYC in an unspecified near-future. I tried to focus on the characters and their relationships more than gee whiz smash bang! stuff.

It's in need of heavy revisions. There's one character I didn't particularly like, so I fridged him about 2/3rds of the way through, but since he's a PoC I now see that's really problematic, especially since the female PoC character sacrificed herself near the climax. :/  I've learned a lot about representation in the last eight years. Also, the ending is unsatisfactory.

Still, I think with a few months work, I could fix the problems have something worth sending to an editor. Once I wrap up the current fantasy trilogy that's in the revision/editing stage and crank out my next Zack Jackson novel, maybe I'll revisit it as a palate cleanser. It would be a relatively quick project, at least compared to writing, editing, and publishing the next new novel from word 1.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

I have a good standalone knocking around in my head but it'll be a while before I can commit to it. Good to know it's an expanding genre. At last I can write (badly disguised) X-Men!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

I classify my books mainly as Urban Fantasy, but I cross market to superhero and I'm a part of a superhero anthology that's coming out in March. 

The reason for this is I see a lot of crossover between the concept of UF and Superhero stories in that you're typically dealing with a protagonist with powers beyond mortal man, as well as all sorts of nasty ultra-powered bad guys and monsters.  Sure it can be a bit darker, but then that's not much different than Marvel's old Midnight Sons titles.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> I classify my books mainly as Urban Fantasy, but I cross market to superhero and I'm a part of a superhero anthology that's coming out in March.
> 
> The reason for this is I see a lot of crossover between the concept of UF and Superhero stories in that you're typically dealing with a protagonist with powers beyond mortal man, as well as all sorts of nasty ultra-powered bad guys and monsters. Sure it can be a bit darker, but then that's not much different than Marvel's old Midnight Sons titles.


I was thinking about the UF category. I think that my books would fit in there as well. If you think about it, SH does nto have to be relegated to someone who wears a cape and flies. Anyone with abilities above and beyond normal humans would qualify. That would include magic, shifters, vampires, etc. Looks like you're having good success. Congrats on that!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Mjcaan said:


> If you think about it, SH does nto have to be relegated to someone who wears a cape and flies.


Exactly. Guys like Ghost Rider, Doctor Strange, Morbius, Blade, etc...all of these guys have had comic series, they're considered superheroes in that sense, yet each could easily fit into a classic UF setting.


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## J Bridger (Jan 29, 2013)

Overall I'd try and be safe rather than sorry later with legal. I mean, yeah, since "superhero" is a term and such people bandy about, I might put it in the text, but I probably would have the team come up with another term ---any other---to describe themselves. Lawyers just make me antsy.

It's good to know out the gate what Marvel/DC own.

As far as shying away from actually wearing costumes etc...I don't think that's what not embracing SH means, just not doing anything on titles et al that can get you sued. I actually am with the Incredibles and like Batman Begins. If a suit makes sense, it makes sense. That said, if your cape gets caught in a jet, that's bad!


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

J Bridger said:


> If a suit makes sense, it makes sense. That said, if your cape gets caught in a jet, that's bad!


That was my favorite part of one of my all time favorite movies LOL.


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## shellabee (Aug 4, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> That was my favorite part of one of my all time favorite movies LOL.


If THE INCREDIBLES was only half as good as it is, it would *still* be the best super-hero movie ever made.


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## RussLee74 (Oct 12, 2011)

I wrote a series of novellas about a character named "Fly Girl". I've finished 10 of them, which wraps up the first season in a manner satisfying enough that I won't feel like I left anybody hanging if I don't do a second season. Eight of the ten novellas have been published so far, and hopefully the publisher will get the last two out in the near future.

The sales aren't spectacular, but that could be a function of the story length, the sporadic publishing schedule, or the formatting. I'm not sure it has anything to do with the subject matter, and I've been approaching the individual chapters as loss leaders for the eventual collection anyway.

From a writing standpoint, I've found the genre difficult because of the requisite action. The action in superhero stories translates well to visual media, but when the prose writer feels obligated to spend three pages describing a fight scene, it can get tedious very quickly. You can break it up with dialogue, and I've discovered a few other tricks through trial and error, but making sure that the story doesn't turn into a radio transcript of a baseball game is sometimes tricky.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

I've been blessed to have a modicum of success with my superhero series, so I have few complaints.  (It's actually the most popular of the three series I'm currently writing.)  When I started a few years ago, the superhero category in its current form didn't even exist on Amazon; I think you could only find "Superhero" under comics and manga, so trying to reach your core audience was difficult.  However, in my opinion, there is definitely an audience there.

The fact that the genre is now a little more in the foreground has, I think, naturally increased the number of authors in that particular space. Thus, it has clearly gotten more difficult to gain traction and visibility. As to the non-superhero novels in the category (vampires, shifters, etc.), that doesn't bother me as much as it does others; just as I had trouble finding the right category early on, maybe there's no perfect category on Amazon at present for those particular books, and superhero is the closest thing that fits.

As with almost all other genres, I think the secret here - if there is one - is writing a good book first and foremost, getting a good cover, and writing a great blurb.  That's the holy trinity.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I have deleted this post as I do not consent to the new Terms of Service that Vertical Scope are attempting to retrospectively apply to our content.  I am forced to manually replace my content as, at time of editing, their representative has instructed moderators not to delete posts or accounts when users request it, and Vertical Scope have implied that they will deal with account deletion requests by anonymising accounts, which would leave personally identifying information in my posts.

I joined under the previous ownership and have posted over the years under different Terms of Service.  I do not consent to my name, content, or intellectual properties being used by Vertical Scope or any other entity that they sell or licence my data to.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Eh... truth be told, I don't mind seeing the occasional urban fantasy book in the Superhero category. In a traditional kitchen sink supers universe, you're gonna have magic and vampires and werewolves and stuff. 

It's when there's only magic and werewolves and vampires and stuff, and no mad science or capes that I question the validity of it being a superhero book. And when you throw in the way urban fantasy has evolved, with sex galore and bodice rippers dominating the category... then things get a little fuzzier. 

Still, at the end of the day, if you don't like urban fantasy in yer superheroes, then feel free to write the bestseller heroic novel that kicks the werebears to the curb. It's on us to do that, not the UF folks.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Logan R. said:


> In my opinion, the #1 thing that will set you up for success in the genre is to *invest in a good cover.*


I agree. That's one thing I've noticed with the higher ranked superhero books; most of them have great covers.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

You honestly could have a superhero book with nothing but magic, vampires and werewolves. Blade, Werewolf by Night, Morbius, heck, Spawn is basiclaly Urban Fantasy.

But.

There is more to the superhero genre than having a protagonist with superpowers.


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## J Bridger (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah the ones I've bought have had some of the most gorgeous covers ever


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Eh... truth be told, I don't mind seeing the occasional urban fantasy book in the Superhero category. In a traditional kitchen sink supers universe, you're gonna have magic and vampires and werewolves and stuff.
> 
> It's when there's only magic and werewolves and vampires and stuff, and no mad science or capes that I question the validity of it being a superhero book. And when you throw in the way urban fantasy has evolved, with sex galore and bodice rippers dominating the category... then things get a little fuzzier.
> 
> Still, at the end of the day, if you don't like urban fantasy in yer superheroes, then feel free to write the bestseller heroic novel that kicks the werebears to the curb. It's on us to do that, not the UF folks.


You're right. It is on us to take control. Great point.


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## EmilieHardie (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm another one who doesn't like all the miscategorised books, particularly on the bestseller lists. I'd be stunned if 50 out of the top 100 at any one time were actual superhero books, which makes it hard for those of us who like to read that genre to find anything.

So, yeah, I've started going through the bestseller lists about once a week and report the books that are clearly not superhero books. I'n not seeing much of an effect though.


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## thenotoriousjed (Aug 15, 2015)

I'm working on my first novel in the young adult category right now that is all about powers but not super heroes. Still it could be interesting to see once it's ready what the superhero fans think of the ideas I'm working on. I wanted to get in a reply here to bookmark.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Will C. Brown said:


> I agree. That's one thing I've noticed with the higher ranked superhero books; most of them have great covers.


Agree 100%. Makes sense when you think about it... most of the readers who'll put money down for a superhero book read comics, or used to read them. Comic covers are a huge influence there, so of course they're a huge influence here.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

I didn't want to have the stock superhero with hands on his hips or running toward the reader type cover. So I commissioned what turned out to look like a stock superhero brooding cover


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

LilyBLily said:


> What do you consider great superhero covers? I've seen a lot that were very obviously the same stock superhero figure with hands on hips looking out over the city. Also a lot of very dark covers with bursts of iridescent color. My own are extremely bright and old school because I write about old school supervillains (mad scientist types, crazy-as-a-loon types, etc.), which I think may be a marketing error, even though the visuals accurately suggest the stories. I'd love some input on what you think the iconic look of a superhero novel should be.


Well, the thing of it is, the type of cover that you have should suggest the genre of the comic you're looking to evoke. You know about the ages of the comics industry, right? Golden, silver, all that stuff?

For modern superheroing that matches the movies we've been having lately, with a mix of serious business but generally with happy endings, the brooding superhero works. Or a figure in a cape over a dark city, or something that you'd see on the racks of a modern day comic shop that didn't look too dark.

If you're doing a dark story, where people die and the heroes don't always triumph, then it's likely you're either bronze or iron age. So get a little angstier. That's what I aimed Dire:Born's cover towards. It's very dark, there's something horrible going on, and the lady on there looks unsettling. That's an example of a bronze Age story, or a lighter iron one.

If you're doing a Silver age style story, then that's when you can put stuff like gorillas with jetpacks or heroes that look vaguely goofy on a cover. Silly elements, but a story that can be surprisingly serious now and then. But you know the good guys will win in the end, and that nobody's gonna shoot any puppies.

I haven't seen many golden age stories recently, but if you're doing something like that I'm guessing a grainy picture, bright and simple colors, and an over-the-top action scene for a cover. Look to Action Comics #1 with Superman crunking the car, or that one of Cap America punching out Hitler.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

After reading "Confessions of a D-List Supervillain" (pretty sure that's the title, absolutely LOVE the book), I realized superheroes really are boring. Yawn. Good vs evil. Good guy always wins. So I dreamed up (I might have been intoxicated, like right now, as you can tell by the extreme number of parentheses) "Henchman." Instead of being about superheroes vs supervillains in the traditional sense, it's a first-person POV of one of the henchmen. 

"Mike Williams" and his best henchman buddy "Dave Anderson" (pseudonyms of course since law enforcement frowns on villainy) belong to the henchman's union and in a slight "Clerks" sort of way, they complain about their supervillain bosses while standing guard at a door that they have no clue about what is on the other side. Or their other buddy, Randy the Tech, a super-genius who freelances for supervillains (hint: he's the one who invents crazy stuff like stealth hoverjets and mind control rings), "borrows" some of the cool gadgets and they get into some trouble. 

What does a henchman really do? Yeah, he (or she, lots of female henchmen, which leads to a lot of black eyes from arguments over the proper terminology to use) isn't always carrying plasma rifles while guarding the supervillain boss as Dr. Carbon holds an entire city for ransom under the threat of annihilation with a Rolston-Halichek Deuterium-Krypton Doom Laser. The henchman is usually the guy who has to deal with Amazon Customer Service when they won't give Dr. Carbon free Prime shipping on a $100,000,000 superweapon. Sometimes they have to attend the supervillain's company picnic or Christmas party, where jerks like Gerrod Mayfield (another henchman that everyone hates) stand too close to them and brag about how many times he's escaped being pulped by a superhero or how he was instrumental in helping Sindrellix pull off a uranium heist. But most of the time they just bitch about how they got stuck working for a C-list supervillain instead of one of the A-listers (you know, the big supervils like Insidious who pay the deductible on healthcare, have guarantees in their contracts about not throwing hapless henches into active volcanoes, proper stuff like that). 

Then there's the rookie hazing of noob henches. Always fun to tell Joe Smith that Etemo loves lots of creamer in his coffee (Etemo, btw, is extremely lactose intolerant). Employee evaluations are never fun, especially working for some of the D-list supervils, as not only can a hench end up taking a pay cut, but might also find himself used as a guinea pig. And as a henchman, how do you explain to your children (and spouse) what you do? "Oh, Billy, I don't actually murder people, I just keep Explo-Dar safe while he detonates a ton of TNT to open the gold vault under the Treasury building." Especially when your kids all beg for Dr. Genius, Colonel Blink, and Big Mike superhero dolls or t-shirts as presents on their birthday or Christmas? 

Right. I might have written this while visiting the state of Oregon (and Washington!). Good thread. 

PS I'd classify a book about henchmen like the blathering I wrote above as "Stupid Fiction" and since we get a couple of genres to put it in, I'd also give it keywords like "Unreadable Fiction," "IQ-lowering Fiction," and if they have it, "Garbage Fiction." If Amazon doesn't have a "Garbage Fiction" subgenre (or main genre! shoot for the moon!), we should get them to make one. 

Right. Shut up before a moderator realizes I'm posting.


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## TimWLong (Dec 3, 2013)

I just published my first super hero book. I think it's safer to call it a "super power" book since I don't consider my characters super heroes. Plus there are alien invaders and it's quasi-apocalyptic. I've been working on Impact Earth: Symbiosis for 3+ years. I just hope my zombie fanbase will take a chance on it. I'm relieved the book is out but market pressure is making me get my next zombie book written ASAP.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

TimWLong said:


> I just published my first super hero book. I think it's safer to call it a "super power" book since I don't consider my characters super heroes. Plus there are alien invaders and it's quasi-apocalyptic. I've been working on Impact Earth: Symbiosis for 3+ years. I just hope my zombie fanbase will take a chance on it. I'm relieved the book is out but market pressure is making me get my next zombie book written ASAP.


This might sound strange, but I'd love to read a book with zombie superheroes.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

C. Rysalis said:


> This might sound strange, but I'd love to read a book with zombie superheroes.


Wait. Do you mean Zombies with super powers or heroes using their powers to fight zombies?


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## J Bridger (Jan 29, 2013)

Haha, a superhero so to speak, who is also a zombie, reminds me of House of the Dead 2.


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## BillyHigginsPeery (Oct 24, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> This might sound strange, but I'd love to read a book with zombie superheroes.


Good news: Marvel Zombies is a thing that exists.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Would the zombies actually still be heroic, or would it be like Marvel Zombies where they're just monsters with superpowers?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LilyBLily said:


> What do you consider great superhero covers? I've seen a lot that were very obviously the same stock superhero figure with hands on hips looking out over the city. Also a lot of very dark covers with bursts of iridescent color. My own are extremely bright and old school because I write about old school supervillains (mad scientist types, crazy-as-a-loon types, etc.), which I think may be a marketing error, even though the visuals accurately suggest the stories. I'd love some input on what you think the iconic look of a superhero novel should be.


The biggest mistake I see is people assuming that superhero novels and superhero comics need the same kind of cover. But they're not the same.

My original cover was done by a comic book artist and it looked amazing...for a comic book. But the lesson I learned is that superhero comic readers aren't necessarily superhero prose readers, and vice versa. So my cover was attracting the wrong kind of people, and I got a few negative comments from readers saying they expected it to be a graphic novel.

I changed the cover to the one that's now in my signature and it's been a positive change. If I had the money to spend, I would definitely get some high quality, custom illustration. I think Logan, Kevin, and Rick's covers are brilliant and should be used as the standard.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> Wait. Do you mean Zombies with super powers or heroes using their powers to fight zombies?


Zombies with superpowers! And maybe costumes?



BillyHigginsPeery said:


> Good news: Marvel Zombies is a thing that exists.


You made my day.



LilyBLily said:


> Thanks for the ideas. Please point me to more of your ideal superhero covers--that have actually sold books.


This one is spot on and sold a lot of books for a long time.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LilyBLily said:


> My concern exactly. People might think mine are comic books because they have comic book art on the covers.
> 
> Which leads me to my next dilemma. Change all the covers when Book 3 comes out? Just make Book 3 different? Or wait until Book 3 is out with the original cover style and redo all the covers afterwards, so there's a coherent threesome of the first style? I do have a few fans collecting the entire set in paperback, where having a cover that wrongly hints at a graphic novel is irrelevant since they can open the book and see type instead of panel art. My thought was possibly to leave the print editions with the older style covers.
> 
> ...


Your series should have consistent cover branding across all books. So if the first two are comic-style art and the third book is a very different style, that's going to be jarring. But I don't see much point in getting a comic-style cover done for the third book when you know you're going to change it very soon.

You should either stick with the comic-style art and don't change them or you should change all the covers and release book three with the new series brand.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Talk about packing a lot of things into one thread! 

While I've been calling my soon-to-release novel a "superhero urban fantasy," I don't believe I actually use the word superhero anywhere in the title or book pages. It stylistically doesn't work in this novel, as it's a more realistic setting. No puppy kicking though. I like dogs, except when they roll in stinky stuff and want to cuddle. 

Not a zombie fan. Sorry. See the dogs rolling in stinky stuff above. 

As far as covers, most advice sites strongly encourage authors to invest in a good cover, no matter the genre. I doubt superhero fiction is any exception. I really want a gorilla with a jetpack now; maybe I'll see how LilyBLily's flying gorilla comes out. The cover for mine is supposed to have a unifying element that can be re-used in later books in the series. 

It can be annoying when non-superhero books are in the superhero list. Urban fantasy, fine. Sci Fi, fine. Hard Luck Hank is about a space mutant with superhero "brick" powers if I recall correctly, so I can see that one. Vampire romances? Not so much. It looks like one author has the majority of the weirdly-placed vampire books... perhaps they would respond to a polite contact suggesting their core audience might be more in the vampires or PNR (ParaNormal Romance) crowd?


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

kdiem said:


> Talk about packing a lot of things into one thread!
> 
> While I've been calling my soon-to-release novel a "superhero urban fantasy," I don't believe I actually use the word superhero anywhere in the title or book pages. It stylistically doesn't work in this novel, as it's a more realistic setting. No puppy kicking though. I like dogs, except when they roll in stinky stuff and want to cuddle.
> 
> ...


I'm seeing more and more Sh appearing in Urban Fantasy and vice versa. I think out of all the other sub-genres, this one seems to be the best fit. I can at least understand why they might appear in each others categories...but the whole vampire romance? No, that I don't get.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Mjcaan said:


> I'm seeing more and more Sh appearing in Urban Fantasy and vice versa. I think out of all the other sub-genres, this one seems to be the best fit. I can at least understand why they might appear in each others categories...but the whole vampire romance? No, that I don't get.


And the fact that it seems to be exclusively from one author suggests that it isn't happening by accident.


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## MKK (Jun 9, 2015)

This thread was a cool read...thank you. I might have actually learned a thing or two.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

MKK said:


> This thread was a cool read...thank you. I might have actually learned a thing or two.


Happy to help!


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

The Gorilla with a jetpack is seriously giving me some ideas...


This is why I love threads on kboards. They get the creative juices flowing more rapidly


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## TimWLong (Dec 3, 2013)

C. Rysalis said:


> This might sound strange, but I'd love to read a book with zombie superheroes.


Well, there's Peter Cline's Ex-Heroes series. Set in LA it's about a band of super heroes battling zombies. Damn good series.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

TimWLong said:


> Well, there's Peter Cline's Ex-Heroes series. Set in LA it's about a band of super heroes battling zombies. Damn good series.


I think he meant superheroes who are zombies, not superheroes battling zombies. But good recc nonetheless.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Schrödinger's Cat said:


> I think he meant superheroes who are zombies, not superheroes battling zombies. But good recc nonetheless.


She!

That's what I meant, yes. But both options sound fun. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> She!
> That's what I meant, yes. But both options sound fun. Thanks for the recommendation!


Ooops! Sorry about that. I didn't see the gender sign on the left lol.

Yeah, good recommends. I have a work-in-progress dealing with a zombie/undead main character as a hero, but it's set in a fantasy realm. Not anything urban or comic-booky heroish.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

shellabee said:


> I have no superhero material published but I am working on a serial-ish supers project with another writer and am looking forward to this thread.


Oh, that sounds cool! Like each writer creates a superhero and they come together in a "Justice League"-esque fashion? Or is it more like Arrow and The Flash on The CW where they operate in the same world, but have two separate missions?

Anyway, I'm here because superhero fiction is my next series. I have about 16,000 words left to write on my current series (and edits and a companion book and months later) and then I'm diving right into superhero fiction! Really excited about it!


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> Unfortunately, superheroes don't seem to have much success in prose, save for Soon I Will Be Invincible. But that doesn't mean it won't. For the longest time, superheroes didn't have much success in movies, and now they do, and dystopian-fiction didn't dominate the young adult market until the Hunger Games. As long as we write good stories, it's only a matter of time.


Like you said, you never know what's going to be a hit. In general, superheroes and comics are up now. They've spilled over into movies and TV shows, why can't they spill over into prose too?

My thing is, superheroes have been around for a long time. They're not going anywhere. Even if they're not as hot as they are now, they'll still have a loyal following that could potentially buy enough of your books that you can live off of. If you do it right.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Mark Gardner said:


> I ::heart:: superheroes! My superhero book came out yesterday: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BQYRL00/


Congrats! Cool cover by the way.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

David Neth said:


> Like you said, you never know what's going to be a hit. In general, superheroes and comics are up now. They've spilled over into movies and TV shows, why can't they spill over into prose too?
> 
> My thing is, superheroes have been around for a long time. They're not going anywhere. Even if they're not as hot as they are now, they'll still have a loyal following that could potentially buy enough of your books that you can live off of. If you do it right.


Good points! The fan base is definitely there, just have to find a way to reach them and give them a good product. Good luck with the new series!


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## shellabee (Aug 4, 2015)

David Neth said:


> Oh, that sounds cool! Like each writer creates a superhero and they come together in a "Justice League"-esque fashion? Or is it more like Arrow and The Flash on The CW where they operate in the same world, but have two separate missions?


A lot like Flash and Arrow on the CW with minor cross-overs (Felicity showing up to help hack something on Flash, etc.) and mentions of events from the other story. They will be set in the same city, so they will both be dealing with the same environment rather than just hearing about what's going on in Star City on the news. Definitely some "team-up"-type events in the works, though, and we each have some ideas that will include the other's characters. We're not sure if we're going to do the whole "the story continues over in the series" gimmicks, though, because we each want our own series to stand on its own.


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## PJ_Cherubino (Oct 23, 2015)

Great topic. I pulled a "what if" from my idea file, outlined it and now I have about 10k words of the first several chapters of a YA superhero novel.

I'm chipping away at it between sessions on my major new WIP. I was thinking about putting the superhero story on wattpad, but I"m not sure I have the resources right now to do wattpad correctly.

The idea is a misfit superhero with low self-esteem who is bullied at school but in reality, is one of the most powerful heroes ever known. To other teen superheroes, he is a rock star but still looks down on himself. It would be about self-acceptance and doing the right thing and all that jazz.

The more i write on it, the more attached I get.

I bookmarked this thread because I'm very interested in an audience for this story.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

shellabee said:


> A lot like Flash and Arrow on the CW with minor cross-overs (Felicity showing up to help hack something on Flash, etc.) and mentions of events from the other story. They will be set in the same city, so they will both be dealing with the same environment rather than just hearing about what's going on in Star City on the news. Definitely some "team-up"-type events in the works, though, and we each have some ideas that will include the other's characters. We're not sure if we're going to do the whole "the story continues over in the series" gimmicks, though, because we each want our own series to stand on its own.


That's AWESOME! Let me know when it's out!


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

Holy hand grenades! There are already so many good points and discussion in this forum, I don't know where to hop in!

I will start with some of my responses to the original questions posed:

*What do you categorize your books on Amazon in?* 
We're still very much in the experimenting stage with this. Right now, I believe they're in:
- The Superhero subgenre of Fantasy (where they are lost amidst all the sexy werewolf books)
- Urban Fantasy
- Steampunk (One of them features original heroes fighting Martian tripods in 1898.)

*Are you finding success in KU or going wide?*
While we've had more than little success, our success so far is little. We recently pulled out of KU and put our books up on other platforms, in small part because two of our smaller books are free on other sites, but we're often wondering if we should put the non-free books back in KU. As I said, it's all experiments right now.

*Also, how do you market? There is a huge support network for so many types of fiction...maybe we need to start one. Captain America 3 (and some other SH movies) is hitting this spring. Why aren't we able to capitalize on that fandom? *
It's funny that you should mention this. We do a lot of comic cons (even though we write prose with few pictures). We do really well at cons, especially compared to other (non comic book) writers, and even compared to people selling indie comics.

But there was a time when there was a high probability that people who read comics also read novels. With the influx of superhero movies, you see more and more people at "comic" cons who have never picked up a comic book, have no interest in picking up a comic book, and are proud of the fact that they "don't read." There are also a lot of people who go now to show of their costume (which, in fairness, is awesome and they put a lot of hard work into) and to socialize, and many of those folks also don't read (comics or otherwise). That's not to say I don't like the movies -- I love them -- and I've been known to cosplay myself, but I'm just saying the demographic is changing in a challenging way.

And in the same way that the rampant popularity of the films has been drawing more non-readers into cons, the influx of people has also driven artist and vendor table prices up. An Artist Alley table (which you can also get if you're an author, I'm both) at Wizard World Philly costs $375. More if you want more than two people at the booth. And if you don't live close to the convention center, you're throwing in hotel money, too. That's a lot of books to have to sell just to break even. Fortunately, if you really search, you can find cons with lower prices. But con selling is too long to cover in these initial questions.

Anyway, we sell OK online. We have a couple series out, but at most we have two books in a single series at this time, so we're more interested in:
a) building up a small fanbase to leave reviews 
b) getting out more books out in the series
because we feel like focusing on these things will put us in a good position when we do want to start doing promos and lots of marketing.

At cons, we've sold as many as 25 books at small one-day cons, and close to 90 books over three-day cons, which ain't too shabby. This is our third year doing cons, and it will be the first year that we get to go back to cons we've already visited, so we're looking forward to seeing if some folks come back looking for more.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

LilyBLily said:


> We see this all the time in all the subgenres. People just stuffing their books wherever. Makes it very hard to find books as a reader.
> 
> I don't write broody heroes, so now I'm considering going chick lit retro on the look of the art, to telegraph the humor and snark therein. Could be snark about a gorilla with a jetpack.


That sounds like an awesome direction to take it in, especially since you see a lot of those on-the-verge-of-a-comic-art-style minimalist illustrations on a lot of chick lit books these days.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

For my part, as far as covers go, I've struggled with many of the same issues.

I'm an artist, and we have about one illustration per chapter in most of our books. (This may seem odd, since they aren't children's books, but a lot of people enjoy them, especially since many of our readers enjoy comic books. Of course, they also up our file size and we take a hit on the 'delivery fee' of ebooks for that.) I haven't even tried doing a true blue comic book-style cover for our books, since, like many of you have said, people will likely think the book is a graphic novel and leave disappointed reviews.

We tried getting some very talented artists to do covers for us, but in the end those great-looking covers were met with confusion. The original After Dark cover had Torrent standing under the shallow ledge of a building in the pouring rain, using his powers to bend the water around him so he stayed dry. It looked great, but was too subtle, and most people said they didn't realize it was a supers book.

We changed the cover, but it had no effect on our sales. I chalk that up to my own artistic ability -- it's not a great cover, but I'm an ink-and-color comic book style-artist, and digital painting is new to me. My cover for the sequel, The Dismal Tide, is much better, and I intend to redo the first one when I get better still. I've got a good bit of time to practice before we're ready for the big promo sites, anyway.

For Population of Loss, we were trying for the look of an old book and we were able to incorporate my usual inked style as a 'clipping' inserted on the front. 

Copper Knights and Granite Men has a real pulp feel to it, so we tried to mock the old, painted pulp book covers. I can't say that's helped much so far. To be honest, it almost feels like we should have a sexy pulp-style pinup of Chemistra surrounded by statues on the cover, but we wanted to try staying true to the story and characters for this cover. (Chemistra is short and not very chesty, so a pinup wouldn't be 'true' to her body type.) We had a much more polished, painterly cover that we commissioned from another artist as the cover previously. Changing to the more pulpy cover had no effect on sales. 

I can do photo-manips, but somehow the image of the 'modern' book cover doesn't feel quite right. Our books are really about breaking with the modern conventions of do-anything heroes and extremely attractive young people. Also, I'm afraid if everyone looks too pretty and polished, it will seem like the books are aimed at girls. While women can surely enjoy the books (I do), I don't want them to lose their masculine appeal. But maybe one day I'll eat those words and switch to a photo manip cover.

As I said in previous posts, it's all experimentation for us right now.


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## TimWLong (Dec 3, 2013)

My superhero book finally came out. I'm pleased that it hit "Hot new releases" but it's not selling as briskly as my other work. Maybe it's part of trying a new genre so I need to win over a new fanbase? Some of my regular readers seem to be enjoying the book. I'm betting a second book in the series will give it a boost. Still, it's really refreshing to write something so different from my other work.


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## J Bridger (Jan 29, 2013)

So outside of cover talk, what kind of powers do you all think are interesting to write about? What's your favorite?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

FYI, if anyone's interested, Vanguard: The Complete First Season is free until Wednesday.


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## Cheyanne (Jan 9, 2013)

You guys should also come talk superheroes with us at the Pen and Cape society! We're a group of mostly indie authors writing superheroes.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

J Bridger said:


> So outside of cover talk, what kind of powers do you all think are interesting to write about? What's your favorite?


My book actually has no powers, just a bunch of talented people relying on skills or technology. I intended to introduce powers later on in the second book, but it just didn't mesh with the world. I still intend on introducing powers, but probably not until I finish the first trilogy of books.

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## J Bridger (Jan 29, 2013)

Cheyanne - where's the link for that?


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

J Bridger said:


> So outside of cover talk, what kind of powers do you all think are interesting to write about? What's your favorite?


We had a lot of fun writing Amp, who has sound-manipulating powers. The obvious applications are music and loud, disorienting sounds; but when we sat down and brainstormed, we came up with a few more interesting ideas.

I think part of the challenge in writing superheroes is coming up with different ways to use common powers. After all, super strength, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, flight, all have a long history with other, more popular characters. Even the aforementioned sound powers, while not as common, still have variations with Black Canary, Banshee, Klaw, etc. As authors, we have to step up our games and come up with new and inventive places to take these powers.

I've got a telepath coming up who I intend to have a lot of fun with. He's the sort who's got no sense of manners with his powers, and will say what people are thinking in the middle of conversation if it supports his bias.


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## Keith Soares (Jan 9, 2014)

Holy Disappearing Act, Batman! I step out for a bathroom break and miss not only this thread, but a shout-out from Logan as well.



Logan R. said:


> In my opinion, the #1 thing that will set you up for success in the genre is to *invest in a good cover.*
> 
> Just ask Keith Soares. His book, "For I Could Lift My Finger and Black Out the Sun" wasn't selling well. He got a new cover, and now he's in the Top 5,000.


It is indeed true that my superhero book (the first in my sig below) was languishing, so I asked Logan Rutherford how he managed to jump so high in the charts. I also pinged T. Ellery Hodges. Turns out they both got covers from the same place. My previous cover was too vague -- splotches of snow over a sunset. Along with the huge title, no one was understanding what to make of my book. The new cover has made a big difference. Now the book has been as high as #5 in the Superhero category (I tell you, it is TOUGH to get past those shirtless vampire shifter dudes!). It has been my best selling book for a few months now and has made a significant change in my monthly earnings. So, of course, I am feverishly working on the sequel.

I do like the point, made a long ways back in this thread, that too many superheroes stagnate. I've been trying to add healthy doses of growing-up-awkward into the storyline. You come for the powers and the fighting, but you stay if you like the person behind the mask. I have a four-book series planned, which has a long arc based around one hero and one villain, but with a lot of deviations, secondary heroes, secondary villains, and plenty of time for my MC to work on the fact that he's still just a teenager who likes girls. Plus, the whole hero story meshes with his love interest story down the road in a way that isn't simply damsel in distress.

I am looking forward to more authors from this board/thread getting into the Superhero category to, I think, better represent it. With no offense intended toward the authors currently ruling that category, many of the books there don't really seem to fit.

K.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShellPresto said:


> I think part of the challenge in writing superheroes is coming up with different ways to use common powers. After all, super strength, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, flight, all have a long history with other, more popular characters. Even the aforementioned sound powers, while not as common, still have variations with Black Canary, Banshee, Klaw, etc. As authors, we have to step up our games and come up with new and inventive places to take these powers.


I don't think the powers are as important as characterization. I love Batman and Moon Knight. Those are very similar characters--billionaire playboy uses his fortune to fight crime as a grim avenger of the night. Even their weapons are very much the same (the main difference being the motif used). But I didn't avoid Moon Knight because his powers (so to speak) are similar to Batman's. Instead, it was Moon Knight's unique characterization that drew me to him, like his multiple personality disorder.

I see the powers as the weapons the characters use. I like Bond, but that won't stop me from reading about another spy just because they both use guns.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Cheyanne said:


> You guys should also come talk superheroes with us at the Pen and Cape society! We're a group of mostly indie authors writing superheroes.


This site looks great. First I've heard if it, but looking forward to digging in.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

ShellPresto said:


> Holy hand grenades! There are already so many good points and discussion in this forum, I don't know where to hop in!
> 
> I will start with some of my responses to the original questions posed:
> 
> ...


Presto, would love to hear more about your experience with selling at cons. Do you have a post somewhere? Willing to write a bit more on process, roi, pros and cons?

Thanks, cm

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## Cheyanne (Jan 9, 2013)

J Bridger said:


> Cheyanne - where's the link for that?


You can find it here: http://penandcapesociety.com/forum/


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I don't think the powers are as important as characterization. I love Batman and Moon Knight. Those are very similar characters--billionaire playboy uses his fortune to fight crime as a grim avenger of the night. Even their weapons are very much the same (the main difference being the motif used). But I didn't avoid Moon Knight because his powers (so to speak) are similar to Batman's. Instead, it was Moon Knight's unique characterization that drew me to him, like his multiple personality disorder.
> 
> I see the powers as the weapons the characters use. I like Bond, but that won't stop me from reading about another spy just because they both use guns.


While you do make a good point, and characterization is really important, I think how characters use their powers is exceptionally important, especially when ending a book.

I've seen too many times when a writer (and I'm including comic book writers in this) set up an obstacle or villain for their characters that's just too strong, and don't actually think about interesting ways to end the story. Recently I read a Thor book where he was running around with his older self and facing off against some massive enemy. The characterization was good, the first couple of issues were good, but at the end of the book, when they were hopelessly outstrengthed, the two Thors (with no foreshadowing) suddenly knew to hit their hammers together and it destroyed the enemy.

Despite the good characterization, I didn't feel a need to read future books. It felt like a cheap, cop-out ending, and part of writing in the superhero genre is looking at your characters and their abilities, looking at an enemy's abilities, and looking at the setting, then crafting an interesting fight in which the heroes either win or lose. A good hero story has both characterization and good use of powers.

It's entirely possible to hit a new-to-the-superhero-genre crowd and make the powers a backdrop for, say, a romance. And if your readers are primarily romance readers who haven't been exposed to superheroes, then anything you do with their powers is fine, because it's all new to them. But if you want to tell stories for people who have read a lot of sci fi or fantasy or comic books, then you need to commit to making interesting scenarios that, even if similar to those they've already seen, attempt to add something new or add some real flair that hasn't been there before.


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## C. Michael Wells (Feb 26, 2014)

ShellPresto said:


> Recently I read a Thor book where he was running around with his older self and facing off against some massive enemy.


On a related note, The God-butcher arc in Thor: God of Thunder is my favorite Thor story ever. I really enjoyed that ending with the Double Hammer Smash.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Michael Wells said:


> On a related note, The God-butcher arc in Thor: God of Thunder is my favorite Thor story ever. I really enjoyed that ending with the Double Hammer Smash.


I was going to say the exact same thing. We're clearly on very different wavelengths, Shell. I thought that Thor story was one of the best I've read in a long time and it cemented Aaron as one of the best Thor writers in the book's history.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

I prefer when the hero doesn't use their powers to stop the big bad, but rather uses their cleverness. My character has a suit that gives him flight and slightly enhanced strength. At no point does he ever use any of that to stop the bad guy.

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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I prefer when the hero doesn't use their powers to stop the big bad, but rather uses their cleverness. My character has a suit that gives him flight and slightly enhanced strength. At no point does he ever use any of that to stop the bad guy.


I also think you run the risk of writing yourself into a corner. If you train your readers to always expect the hero to defeat the villain with some inventive, new use of their powers, then you could conceivably run into a situation where you've run out of inventive, new uses.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

On powers: I'm of the philosophy that how the character uses their powers is an important characterization tool.

Do they use it in mundane life? Or do they 'reserve' it for super work only?

Do they not think very deeply on them and only use the 'basic' modes, or do they buckle down and do the research in order to find new, creative ways?

In combat, do they go for the efficient attacks, do they have fun with it, or do that go for big, powerful hits.

Never forget that everything about the character that involves a choice conscious or unconscious is something that can be used to make statements about them and how those things evolve and change can be used to illustrate character development.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I also think you run the risk of writing yourself into a corner. If you train your readers to always expect the hero to defeat the villain with some inventive, new use of their powers, then you could conceivably run into a situation where you've run out of inventive, new uses.


When that happens, kill off the character.

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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

I know a lot of other people who also enjoyed it, but for me, personally, I didn't like the ending. Throughout the entire book, it was stressed that no gods were strong enough to take down the big bad, so it shouldn't have been a matter of hitting him twice as hard. There was no explanation of why it worked. It looked very visually impressive, it was cool in evoking that sense of a classic team-up, but without an attempt at an explanation, it just felt like another "let's find ways to hit him harder until we win" ending. If something else was going on -- and there was room for it to be going on -- then the author should have said so.

Also, the big bad didn't seem to have any fear of them doing that, making it even more left field to me. (Not that an enemy has to know what can kill him, but it's a good, classic foreshadowing example.) Nor were there any hints throughout the book for the Thors that that would take him down. 

I think for that book, the strong characterization kept the book afloat for me, at least. Once upon a time, characterization was enough to keep me reading multiple issues. However, knowing most books won't make it two years without a reboot or a crossover that changes everything, and because I have to read six issues for one ending (instead of one or two issues for one ending) these days, I'm less inclined to continue a book based on characterization alone.

May I ask: If the ending was presented in a different format, say, a novel, and you didn't have the artwork to go with it, do you think you would have enjoyed the ending as much without a clear explanation (even in comic bookish faux science) of what made the double-hammer attack work?


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> When that happens, kill off the character.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


That honestly the point where I stop following a comic.

In fact, that's how I started this gig: Civil War's general poor writing, especially things like Bill Foster's ignoble death and tarp-burial and Kyle and Yost's bloodbath over on Academy X after which they literally mocked me on CBR for liking the characters they killed 'because they didn't know what to do with them'.

Yost told me to see if I could do better.

Two years later, I was writing A MagiTech Crisis. He was writing Necrosha. To this day I take that as a win.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> Presto, would love to hear more about your experience with selling at cons. Do you have a post somewhere? Willing to write a bit more on process, roi, pros and cons?
> 
> Thanks, cm
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


Once upon a time I had a blog post on this, but it seems to have disappeared. Here are the most important points:

- If you have ebooks, have them on a physical CD to purchase. No one will remember to go home and buy your ebook that night, no matter what else you hand them. Make those sales at your table by having the ebook there.

- Have some sort of free preview that you can hand to people. Hand it to them. If you leave a pile on the table, even with tons of signage, no one will pick up a preview. It's a psychological thing. I had 'FREE PREVIEWS! TAKE SOME!' signs in multiple spots on my booth. Six at some point. People would still walk up and ask, meekly, if they could take one. I took the signs down and just hand them to people now. It's easier on everyone, and I make waaaay more sales that way.

- Free previews are more expensive, but way more effective than handing out business cards or postcards. Those will land in a bag until the end of the con, with everyone else's cards, which most people won't take the time to sort through after the con. If people are handed a preview and they like reading, they will look at your preview, and may come back later.

- Have a professional looking booth. Get a banner and a tablecloth. If you can, have art to look at. Pictures draw people in. Impressing folks with your pitch, preview, and text on the back of your book makes them buy.

- If you're shy, you have to force yourself to get over it. If you're afraid to talk, you won't make sales. I'm ridiculously shy. I'd put drawings in my books that sell, but I shake too hard in big crowds and my "straight" lines look like zig zags. I lose all sense of appetite. For the first couple of conversations, all I do is stutter and trip over words. And that's the start of every con. But I force myself to get past that, and in a couple of hours, I turn into a good imitation of outgoing for the rest of the weekend.

- Likewise, don't try to talk to people who aren't in front of your table. We've never done it, and we won't, but we've been around people who do, and they're the worst. If they're at someone else's table, they aren't your customer yet.

I'm more than happy to answer other specific questions.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShellPresto said:


> May I ask: If the ending was presented in a different format, say, a novel, and you didn't have the artwork to go with it, do you think you would have enjoyed the ending as much without a clear explanation (even in comic bookish faux science) of what made the double-hammer attack work?


Sure. I don't get hung up about how or why powers work.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

Vaalingrade said:


> That honestly the point where I stop following a comic.
> 
> In fact, that's how I started this gig: Civil War's general poor writing, especially things like Bill Foster's ignoble death and tarp-burial and Kyle and Yost's bloodbath over on Academy X after which they literally mocked me on CBR for liking the characters they killed 'because they didn't know what to do with them'.
> 
> ...


There are times when you can kill off a character and have it make sense -- especially if it's the end of a series. But I agree with Vaalingrade in that often, it reeks of what it is: not knowing what to do with a character.

I felt the same way when Skin from Generation X was killed in an issue of X-Men. They didn't know what to do with an under-powered Reed Richards, which is sad, because he was an awesome character.

Likewise, I felt Civil War was a disappointment characterization-wise because of it's ending: Cap giving up in the middle of a fight, because he apparently forgot what war was. Short of Punisher, no hero in the Marvel Universe should have been more prepared for what war was than Cap. And as a leader, he should have known what was coming and been prepared for it, but instead it was like he was wandering around with no plan, which is the opposite of what he's on the Avengers for.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> Sure. I don't get hung up about how or why powers work.


Fair enough.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

ShellPresto said:


> Once upon a time I had a blog post on this, but it seems to have disappeared. Here are the most important points:
> 
> - If you have ebooks, have them on a physical CD to purchase. No one will remember to go home and buy your ebook that night, no matter what else you hand them. Make those sales at your table by having the ebook there.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I might contact you for more in the future if I hit up a con...

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

ShellPresto said:


> I felt the same way when Skin from Generation X was killed in an issue of X-Men. They didn't know what to do with an under-powered Reed Richards, which is sad, because he was an awesome character.


Bonus points for the implications that literally everyone else survived being crucified thanks to Angel's blood.

And it was all to set up a story aobut a plot to make Nightcrawler the Pope then kill people with exploding communion wafers, all orchstrated by a nun with (unexplained superstrength) pretending to be a priest.

But really, we could fill a whole thread with jsut dissecting Austin's runs on everything but Exiles.

It does lead to an important lesson on Superhero writing: Superhero universe lend themselves to what Grant Morrison calls 'the lavishly ludicrous'. They tend to be weird with a lot of moving parts and a casserole of power sources and mythologies.

Because of this, when you layer your stories with complexity--it is incredibly important that the insulate the bat-shit insane parts with simple ones so you don't have an unholy mess that no one could understand, ESPECIALLY the writer, who immediately loses the plot while rolling around in their intense levels of weird.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I prefer when the hero doesn't use their powers to stop the big bad, but rather uses their cleverness. My character has a suit that gives him flight and slightly enhanced strength. At no point does he ever use any of that to stop the bad guy.


I'm of the opposite thinking on this. I want to see the hero use his or her cleverness of course, but often times I don't want to see this at the 'final boss fight.' So often, the hero loses their powers or gets injured before confronting the real enemy, forcing the whole cleverness or quick thinking angle. I want to see them get passed lesser obstacles this way, but when it comes to the ending, I want a battle of their wills. Someone has to want it more. That being said, if the ending cleverness is truly awesome, and has been foreshadowed, I can get on board. I really enjoyed how Steelheart ended for example.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

TElleryHodges said:


> I'm of the opposite thinking on this. I want to see the hero use his or her cleverness of course, but often times I don't want to see this at the 'final boss fight.' So often, the hero loses their powers or gets injured before confronting the real enemy, forcing the whole cleverness or quick thinking angle. I want to see them get passed lesser obstacles this way, but when it comes to the ending, I want a battle of their wills. Someone has to want it more. That being said, if the ending cleverness is truly awesome, and has been foreshadowed, I can get on board. I really enjoyed how Steelheart ended for example.


I agree that it has to be foreshadowed, and foreshadowed well. I don't know if anyone read Tom Reynold's Meta (a self-published superhero novel), but the ending used the cleverness angle, but in an awful way. It just seemed to come out of nowhere, like a dues ex machina ("Oh, turns out that person had that power we've never seen or even knew existed! Wow!"), much like the whole Thor thing everyone was talking about before.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Loving the thread. Hopefully we can keep this thing kicking.

My collaborator (EL Barbant) and I are about a month out from release of book 1 of our hero trilogy (or more??). Energy is high and I am wrapping up our final read and polish today before sending off to our Beta readers. We have a sweet designer that is trying to craft a cover that is "in genre," while also making it stand out. 

I do have a very quick question that I would love to have folks chime in on. Though we're not ready for title release yet, I am having an issue with our series title. The series is place based. Let's just pretend it's happening in Chicago (it's not). I'm conflicted with going with:

Windy City Heroes: Book 1

or 

Windy City Superheroes: Book 1

or other.

I prefer the former, but it seems the latter might pull in more searches (and it seems plenty of folks are using "superhero" in subs, even with our discussion above regarding TM).

What would you do and why?

CM


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> ... I am having an issue with our series title. The series is place based. Let's just pretend it's happening in Chicago (it's not). I'm conflicted with going with:
> 
> Windy City Heroes: Book 1
> 
> ...


Picking titles are one of my weak points, so I'm having the same struggle.
I prefer the "heroes" version in light of the previous discussions. I think if you use "superhero" in your category or keyword and you'll be fine with discoverability.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Loving the thread. Hopefully we can keep this thing kicking.
> 
> My collaborator (EL Barbant) and I are about a month out from release of book 1 of our hero trilogy (or more??). Energy is high and I am wrapping up our final read and polish today before sending off to our Beta readers. We have a sweet designer that is trying to craft a cover that is "in genre," while also making it stand out.
> 
> ...


Potential trademark issues aside, Windy City Heroes rolls off the tongue better.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

I agree with the others. You might risk potential legal troubles if Marvel and DC ever decide to enforce their "superheroes" trademark (the word cannot be used in a title/appear on a front cover, but it can appear on back cover copy, in the book, and as a keyword).

And "Windy City Heroes" does roll off the tongue better.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks, gents. I agree with the roll! Looking forward to keeping the thread posted as we get closer to release.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm getting closer to release, too! A little less than two months to go. Todd gets one of the first ARC copies.  

Is my blurb appealing?


The comic books got it all wrong.

After a worldwide event known as The Pulse changed humankind as we know it, powers of extraordinary strength entered our world. Masked figures with secret identities had no place in this new society as the lines between heroes and villains blurred.

Two years later... 

The Covenant, an international team of the most powerful heroes, uses their force to reign in those abusing their gifts. When Shanti, a saintly rogue without affiliations, experiences a world-altering surge, her powers teeter on apocalyptic levels which sets a change in motion once again.

A grieving teen and a recovery addict want nothing more than to put the pieces of their lives back together. But after Shanti's power surge, Christina Chung and Sarina Baumann find themselves entangled in a web with Radiant--a renegade hero, struggling against the authorities that made him who he is now. The three of them must find a way--and a place--to be the heroes they're destined to become. But sometimes, even the heroes fall...


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'm getting closer to release, too! A little less than two months to go. Todd gets one of the first ARC copies.
> 
> Is my blurb appealing?
> 
> ...


C.R.,

I'd say it needs to be tightened up. I took a little crack at the beginning to streamline it:



> The comic books got it all wrong.
> 
> The Pulse-a worldwide event-changed humankind.
> Powers of extraordinary strength entered our world and blurred the lines between good and evil.
> ...


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I don't know what happened, but there definitely never was an [expletive] in there. I changed that part to make the [expletive] flag disappear. Since when is 'stricken' a naughty word?

Thanks for the help, CM, but I kind of need to explain why 'the comic books got it wrong', right? The shorter version doesn't hint at genre deconstruction elements. Those are essential for my setting. I'm a little shocked that after a professional blurb writer (who normally does really good work) AND my editor looking it over, the blurb is such a mess.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

I wouldn't say such a mess! Sorry if that was discouraging. Not meant to be.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Well, if you don't know what the paragraph means, then I need to fix it. I'll see if I can track down some help. Thanks!


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'm getting closer to release, too! A little less than two months to go. Todd gets one of the first ARC copies.
> 
> Is my blurb appealing?
> 
> ...


Before I give my opinion, I should say that I've learned to take things I disagree with strongly with a grain of salt and, therefore, you may want to treat this the same way. Especially if multiple people end up disagreeing with me on this.

I don't like the opening line "The comic books got it all wrong." While I love a good deconstruction, the market is swamped with them nowadays, so when I see something like that, my gut prepares me for:
a) 'just another deconstruction' 
b) 'here's a writer writing about superheroes who doesn't love comics'
or
c) 'here's a writer writing about superheroes who doesn't understand that comic books offer a plethora of new and exciting ideas.'

All of those interpretations could make me skip the book. I think a line like that would work if it was a comedy, and the next bit focused on a character, like 'Porter Parker never expected..." It could also work if the book was meta or fourth-wall breaking.

But this seems like a really serious book.

I also don't like the "Two years later... (paragraph break)" because it seems like something that should be inside a book. There's no passage of time on a back book blurb. Make it about the now, and just roll that "two years ago" or "two years later" or "now" into one of the other sentences in the description. It doesn't need to be its own thing.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Hurrah for this thread. I'm stumbling around the fringes of superhero fiction with a fairy tale I'm in the middle of retelling for an anthology submission. It's one of the weirder Grimm stories, I'm updating it pretty much for a bet, and the superhero genre was the only one that could make any sense of the tale for me.

But as you do, I'm finding it quite addictive, and have already started plotting a longer superhero tale, possibly set within the same universe.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> Loving the thread. Hopefully we can keep this thing kicking.
> 
> My collaborator (EL Barbant) and I are about a month out from release of book 1 of our hero trilogy (or more??). Energy is high and I am wrapping up our final read and polish today before sending off to our Beta readers. We have a sweet designer that is trying to craft a cover that is "in genre," while also making it stand out.
> 
> ...


I like Windy City Heroes. Plus, you might want to research putting "superhero" in the title. That might draw the ire of one of the big 2 that have that word trademarked.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> I like Windy City Heroes. Plus, you might want to research putting "superhero" in the title. That might draw the ire of one of the big 2 that have that word trademarked.


Yeah, it sounds like everyone is right about that!

And, I like the how "Windy City Heroes" sounds...

Back to writing.


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## Weibart (Oct 27, 2014)

The two graphic novels, that I'm writing & illustrating, definitely deal with superhero tropes, but both are sci-fi action adventure stories. My first GN has an MC who grapples with doing the super-heroics she wants to do with the super-heroics she's employed to do. The second GN is more about the journey to superhero'ing and making that road an uphill climb. 

I'll definitely be exploring more overt superhero tropes in my first GN, which is its own series even though it's set in the same universe as my second GN which will continue on as its own series. Some of my favorite writers are 'superhero' writers like Greg Weisman, Dwayne McDuffie, Joss Whedon, and many others. I'm on a Weisman-inspiration kick lately because he knocked me out with his absolutely amazing foresight with the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series. Weisman is amazing at gathering up what characters he wants to use, how he wants to use them and what their trajectory is, and plotting out a series with character pay-offs in mind. He'll set up characters in Episode 4 of the series and pay them off in Episode 20 of the series, which as a fan is a tremendously gratifying and rewarding approach to storytelling. Weisman plays the long game which I have a huge appreciation for, and I'm trying to take that to heart while approaching my series.

Right now I'm wrapping up penciling the fourth episode of my series. My MC is in peril, knocked out and unconscious with a gun to her head, and a loved one of hers, her only hope,  is poised to save her. This scene's followed by a nightmare and then the resolution, so I'm very excited to wrap this up and move to the next story!


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Weibart said:


> The two graphic novels, that I'm writing & illustrating, definitely deal with superhero tropes, but both are sci-fi action adventure stories. My first GN has an MC who grapples with doing the super-heroics she wants to do with the super-heroics she's employed to do. The second GN is more about the journey to superhero'ing and making that road an uphill climb.
> 
> I'll definitely be exploring more overt superhero tropes in my first GN, which is its own series even though it's set in the same universe as my second GN which will continue on as its own series. Some of my favorite writers are 'superhero' writers like Greg Weisman, Dwayne McDuffie, Joss Whedon, and many others. I'm on a Weisman-inspiration kick lately because he knocked me out with his absolutely amazing foresight with the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series. Weisman is amazing at gathering up what characters he wants to use, how he wants to use them and what their trajectory is, and plotting out a series with character pay-offs in mind. He'll set up characters in Episode 4 of the series and pay them off in Episode 20 of the series, which as a fan is a tremendously gratifying and rewarding approach to storytelling. Weisman plays the long game which I have a huge appreciation for, and I'm trying to take that to heart while approaching my series.
> 
> Right now I'm wrapping up penciling the fourth episode of my series. My MC is in peril, knocked out and unconscious with a gun to her head, and a loved one of hers, her only hope, is poised to save her. This scene's followed by a nightmare and then the resolution, so I'm very excited to wrap this up and move to the next story!


Sounds very exciting! Thanks for sharing that with us. You're right about your inspirations. Great writers, especially Weisman!


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> I do have a very quick question that I would love to have folks chime in on. Though we're not ready for title release yet, I am having an issue with our series title. The series is place based. Let's just pretend it's happening in Chicago (it's not). I'm conflicted with going with:
> 
> Windy City Heroes: Book 1
> 
> ...


I prefer the first one as well. It rolls off the tongue easier.

Also, as a side note, I think calling it a "hero novel" instead of a "superhero novel" would work well to accurately portray the type of story (superhero) without getting into any legal trouble. As far as searches go, couldn't you just add "superhero" into your list of keywords?


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

You can have superhero in the series title, so long as it doesn't appear on the front (or side) cover. Also,  be aware that Marvel or DC may ask you to remove it. They won't sue, however, as it isn't actually on the book, nor the books title. You'd just receive a cease and desist, and have to change the word superhero to hero.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Wellp, my second book in the "Dire" series is about done. Just waiting on cover art, poking around with final edits, and taking care of minor things.

How's this look for a blurb?



Doctor Dire returns to Icon City, to show them all!

Recovered from her misadventures during Y2K, and now firmly a supervillain, she's come back to track down the few friends she has left and in some cases, save them from good guys or bad guys. 

At least bad guys have good money. Along the way she takes the opportunity to seize the resources she needs to set her true master plan in motion. But a cargo of suspicious flowers ends up being far more than it seems, and a complicated doublecross will have repercussions that could threaten all of humanity... and her paycheck. Seriously, villains don't save the world for free. That's more of a hero thing.

Before it's all through she must contend with warring gangers, mafiosos, the forces of the law, rival supervillains, and ruthless corporations. Oh, and heroes, too. Can't forget them, they're everwhere. From self-righteous super-speedsters to the world's worst time traveler, every last one of them wants to bring Dire down.

Pushed to the limit to survive and keep her friends alive, Dire finds this her hardest test yet. Her foes are legion and powerful, but she is Dire. She'll blast, brazen, plot, and conquer her way through all obstacles, all to lay the foundation for a better future. For HER future.


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## abonje (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks for sharing, Andrew!



AndrewSeiple said:


> Hey there!
> 
> I've been writing superhero/villain stuff for a year now. Piddled around with some short fiction to test the waters, and soften things up for my first novel's launch. The short fiction did okay, but the novel's been going aces so far since its launch last November.
> 
> ...


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

My superhero book (and my first novel) is finally out!



Description: Matt was just a regular teenager, dealing with homework, hormones, high school drama, and an obnoxious older brother. He found his life complicated, but it was nothing he couldn't handle. Then, when Spark, the city's greatest superhero unexpectedly dies, Matt finds himself in possession of the hero's costume and gadgets, with a note asking him to carry on the legacy. Finding himself unable to refuse, he reluctantly begins his superhero career, hoping he can live up to the name of his predecessor. Not knowing the first thing about being a superhero, Matt soon finds himself overwhelmed. Will he find himself in an early grave, just like his hero? And when evidence arises which indicates that Spark's death may not be the accident everyone believes it is, Matt finds himself consumed with trying to uncover the truth. Will he be able to get to the bottom of this mystery? And if so, will he be able to handle the dark reality behind it?

Meanwhile, an aging supervillain, the Inventor, creates a powerful device capable of killing thousands. An elaborate plan is put in motion that could lead to the destruction of everything Matt holds dear. Will he be able to figure out the how to stop him in time?





Available on Kindle and in paperback.

Additionally, my superhero short story is available for free (at least in the US, I'm still working on the other countries) here.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> My superhero book (and my first novel) is finally out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations, Michael.

I grabbed a copy and am looking forward to checking it out.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Good on you, Michael! Looks like a fun read... I'll grab a copy when I get a chance.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> My superhero book (and my first novel) is finally out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations Michael! Well done indeed. I'm picking up a copy to help you celebrate


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> My superhero book (and my first novel) is finally out!


Great cover! And awesome suit! I was thinking of something similar for my superhero, but now I may need to reconsider...

Also, THANK YOU for putting out a paperback! There are a lot of indie books I'd love to read, but they're not always in paperback. I really don't like reading ebooks.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Good on you, Michael! Looks like a fun read... I'll grab a copy when I get a chance.


Thanks! I hope you enjoy it!


CM Raymond said:


> Congratulations, Michael.
> I grabbed a copy and am looking forward to checking it out.


Thank you so much! I really appreciate it.


Mjcaan said:


> Congratulations Michael! Well done indeed. I'm picking up a copy to help you celebrate


Thank you so much!


David Neth said:


> Great cover! And awesome suit! I was thinking of something similar for my superhero, but now I may need to reconsider...
> 
> Also, THANK YOU for putting out a paperback! There are a lot of indie books I'd love to read, but they're not always in paperback. I really don't like reading ebooks.


Thanks! It's variation on a classic design numerous superheroes have used. Don't let my design (which, while not the initial design, has been my character's design for over a decade now) stop you from using the one you wanted, unless you think there would be confusion between the two.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The whole point of writing this was to hold it in my hand, to have it on my shelf. The only time I read ebooks is when I commute, and even then, only when I get a seat and don't feel like writing. So while I may make a few cents less from the paperback compared to kindle (I really didn't think it would be fair to charge over $9.99 for the paperback book, because personally, when I'm buying a book, that would be my limit), it's still worth it just to give myself and others the option to physically have it on their shelves.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> My superhero book (and my first novel) is finally out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats, Michael! Looks good.
I like the trailer. It's a nice touch. Who made it? Are you posting it somewhere besides YouTube?


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

Will C. Brown said:


> Congrats, Michael! Looks good.
> I like the trailer. It's a nice touch. Who made it? Are you posting it somewhere besides YouTube?


Thanks! I animated it myself, mostly in Flash and ToonBoom Studio. I posted it on my Facebook page and Twitter, I just got confirmation that it will play at the end of an episode of a semi popular book/movie review webshow. I'm still looking into other options.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## TimWLong (Dec 3, 2013)

My alien invasion/superhero book IMPACT EARTH: SYMBIOSIS has been out for 3 weeks and I'm amazed that it's getting a good reception. Sales have been solid. It would be number one in it's category but there's an urban fantasy in the #1 spot. I was worried that my regular readers wouldn't give it a chance but they seem to be digging it. I can't wait to write the sequel but have to finish another book in a long running series first. Onward upward supe's genre!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

TimWLong said:


> My alien invasion/superhero book IMPACT EARTH: SYMBIOSIS has been out for 3 weeks and I'm amazed that it's getting a good reception. Sales have been solid. It would be number one in it's category but there's an urban fantasy in the #1 spot. I was worried that my regular readers wouldn't give it a chance but they seem to be digging it. I can't wait to write the sequel but have to finish another book in a long running series first. Onward upward supe's genre!


Excellent cover.

Pick up a copy through KU and have it on my (growing) TBR list. Looking forward to getting to it! I'll be sure to leave a review once I do!


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## J Bridger (Jan 29, 2013)

The colors on the Impact Earth: Symbiosis really do pop


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Our designer just got our pre-release promo to us.

Mind if I show it off?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm planning on releasing a superhero novel this fall. I'd love comments on the pitch and cover.

*Pitch for Repulsive:*

Zack Zurick loves superheroes. Lives them. Knows everything about them. If he could only become one of them, maybe the money and power would make Hayli see him as something other than a friend.

Hey, it's possible he could be chosen to join their ranks. After all, he does have an alliterative name and is a classic underdog.

When he becomes Repulsor, his powers make it painful for Hayli to even look at him. Talk about a kick in the gut. And the whole saving-the-world thing turns out to be harder than he thought, too. The villains have teamed up, and the heroes have a traitor in their midst. Zack must figure out who's betraying them and capture enough of the bad guys to restore balance ... all while not getting killed.

Right. Why not just go ahead and win the girl while he's at it?

Maybe he could. If she weren't dating the most popular and most handsome and richest hero of them all. And if only he weren't ... _Repulsive_.










Note that, though the image I've attached is the proof, I've already purchased the actual image.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm planning on releasing a superhero novel this fall. I'd love comments on the pitch.
> 
> ...


I like the idea a lot, and would read it. The blurb seems all over the place though, and I'd try to rework it if I were you.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I like the idea a lot, and would read it. The blurb seems all over the place though, and I'd try to rework it if I were you.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


I'm glad the idea is attractive.

Any specific thoughts on the pitch?

Thanks.

Brian


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## jaehaerys (Feb 18, 2016)

Vaalingrade said:


> Of course, if Man of Steel is anything to go by, Batman vs Superman may literally be so awful it destroyed the genre forever.


Hear, hear to that!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Time for the Super Secret Super Hero Cover Reveal!

It is version one of the cover. I have a few things for the designer (which I'll keep to myself for now), but I thought I would offer it up for the community to see if there are any other things you all would point out.

So, go ahead, kick the daylights out of it.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I have actually started a "superhero" story, sort of. Over 18 years ago the moon became a super-bright pink orb for about a day and thousands of children born over the next two years had extraordinary abilities that began manifesting around age three. These abilities blossom as adulthood blooms. Governments around the world have drafted and used the children of the pink moon in wars, others turn bad on their own. They call them PME's (Pink Moon Event) in the story.

I put the first 4 rough-draft chapters on my blog. I think it will probably be a novella to introduce the story world and some of the characters. I could easily see multiple novels from it eventually. If I think there's any demand for it.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm planning on releasing a superhero novel this fall. I'd love comments on the pitch and cover.
> 
> ...


I like the cover.

As far as the blurb... I do think you need to do some condensing and add some transition. It's a little unclear if the focus is Zach's love life or his superhero life.

The first paragraph: Zach wants to be a superhero. He also wants to get the girl. 
Second: Zach would like to be a superhero though he doesn't have powers yet. 
Third paragraph: Zach finds being a superhero is hard and not going to help him get the girl. 
Fourth and fifth paragraphs: Zach will never get Hayli. I actually like the last line, but you need something so it's clear that being a superhero is just as or more important than the girl.

My suggested rewrite would be: 
First paragraph: Zach wants to be a superhero and get the girl. 
Second paragraph: Zach gains superpowers. Don't mention Hayli unless he gets powers when he falls out of a tree into chemicals while peeping on her. 
Third paragraph: Being a superhero is tough. Treachery! Etc. Also, girl is now dating Awesome Man. 
Last: Clincher: Maybe if he weren't... Repulsive.

Paragraphs 2 and 3 could maybe be combined too.


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## BrentNichols (Mar 18, 2011)

> Time for the Super Secret Super Hero Cover Reveal!
> So, go ahead, kick the daylights out of it.


I have no daylights to kick. It rocks.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BrentNichols said:


> I have no daylights to kick. It rocks.


Thanks, Brent. I think our designer did a great job. He's really talented.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Time for the Super Secret Super Hero Cover Reveal!
> 
> It is version one of the cover. I have a few things for the designer (which I'll keep to myself for now), but I thought I would offer it up for the community to see if there are any other things you all would point out.
> 
> So, go ahead, kick the daylights out of it.


Love the image and the background, and it looks GREAT as a thumbnail.

My only complaint is that I think the image fades to early and leaves too much empty black space on the bottom. It makes it look like your author names are just sitting in space.

SHOW OFF THAT AWESOME IMAGE!

The branding between this and your teaser image are really cool too.


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## KeraEmory (Feb 8, 2016)

(Due to being on Twitter with CM Raymond and LE Barbant, I ended up more or less dreaming (I was half-asleep) a cute little novel that will be from the perspective of the cardboard-cutout style superhero girlfriend of days past, the one who is always kept in the dark about her boyfriend's alter ego. No idea when I'll get to it, but the bones are outlined.)


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

KeraEmory said:


> (Due to being on Twitter with CM Raymond and LE Barbant, I ended up more or less dreaming (I was half-asleep) a cute little novel that will be from the perspective of the cardboard-cutout style superhero girlfriend of days past, the one who is always kept in the dark about her boyfriend's alter ego. No idea when I'll get to it, but the bones are outlined.)


We inspire these kinds of dreams often.

I CAN'T WAIT TO READ THIS.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

harker.roland said:


> Love the image and the background, and it looks GREAT as a thumbnail.
> 
> My only complaint is that I think the image fades to early and leaves too much empty black space on the bottom. It makes it look like your author names are just sitting in space.
> 
> ...


Harker, nice call on the early fade. Adding it to the list. Thanks.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I've been using DAZ Studio lately and decided to give it a try for redesigning the covers for my superhero serial. Here's the first season:


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

That is awesome. You could have a new side business.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> Time for the Super Secret Super Hero Cover Reveal!
> 
> It is version one of the cover. I have a few things for the designer (which I'll keep to myself for now), but I thought I would offer it up for the community to see if there are any other things you all would point out.
> 
> So, go ahead, kick the daylights out of it.


I love this cover! Well done! I'm also really enjoying the part time writers podcast as well.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Ooooooh, dat Vanguard cover...

Don't mind me, I'm drooling over here. Tell your studio good work from me!


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## ajryan (Apr 8, 2016)

I am new to KBoards, been poking around for a week now. I personally view my hero works as urban or modern fantasy. I haven't gotten anything to published in ebook or print format yet. Nice to know some fellow super enthusiasts though. : )


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> My suggested rewrite would be:
> First paragraph: Zach wants to be a superhero and get the girl.
> Second paragraph: Zach gains superpowers. Don't mention Hayli unless he gets powers when he falls out of a tree into chemicals while peeping on her.
> Third paragraph: Being a superhero is tough. Treachery! Etc. Also, girl is now dating Awesome Man.
> ...


Great comments. In re-reading it, I think you're definitely right - way too long-winded. I'm deep in the middle of a major rewrite of the novel at the moment, but I'll post the revised pitch when I get around to it.

Thanks for the advice!

Brian


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Time for the Super Secret Super Hero Cover Reveal!
> 
> It is version one of the cover. I have a few things for the designer (which I'll keep to myself for now), but I thought I would offer it up for the community to see if there are any other things you all would point out.
> 
> So, go ahead, kick the daylights out of it.


I gotta say that I really, really dig this cover. Awesome!

The ominous figure menacingly obscuring the city behind is great. Really pulled me into a story and set the genre.

If you forced me to pick nits, though, I didn't like how the author names faded to black at the bottom. I got it for the title; that worked. And I'm assuming the decision was made to replicate the same effect with the author names, but to me, it just kind of looks like the printer ran out of ink. I think it would look better without the effect, though. Maybe experiment and see what you think?

Also, I'm not a huge fan of "the" in the title. "Catalyst" seems more in tune with the genre than "The Catalyst," but maybe you have reasons it has to be that way. Just a thought.

One final thought, and this is probably just me, but I hate "Book 1" on the cover. The cover is such valuable real estate. Is it really necessary to advertise that it's the first in a series on the cover? Some people do it, though, so presumably, there's a reason.

Hope this helps some.

Brian


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

AngryGames said:


> "Henchman." Instead of being about superheroes vs supervillains in the traditional sense, it's a first-person POV of one of the henchmen.


I love the idea of a henchmen story. You should check out this Cracked video. They do a pretty awesome job discussing the pros and cons of the job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqFqUJ3yJ08


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

It seems like a lot of the super hero novels making waves on amazon are geared more towards teenagers. The super hero novel that CM Raymond and I have been working on (thanks for all the cover feedback by the way) focuses on an adult audience. Anyone have any success with this or know of a superhero novel that has? The movie world certainly seems to be pivoting in that direction, with mixed levels of success (people love Deadpool and Daredevil but hate Batman v Superman). 

I like comics, but with the exception of a few amazing graphic novels, I haven't found many that are written for me. I feel similarly about the few SH novels I've picked up. They're good, I'm just not the ideal audience.

Anyone have thoughts about this?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LEBarbant said:


> It seems like a lot of the super hero novels making waves on amazon are geared more towards teenagers. The super hero novel that CM Raymond and I have been working on (thanks for all the cover feedback by the way) focuses on an adult audience. Anyone have any success with this or know of a superhero novel that has? The movie world certainly seems to be pivoting in that direction, with mixed levels of success (people love Deadpool and Daredevil but hate Batman v Superman).
> 
> I like comics, but with the exception of a few amazing graphic novels, I haven't found many that are written for me. I feel similarly about the few SH novels I've picked up. They're good, I'm just not the ideal audience.
> 
> Anyone have thoughts about this?


I think superheroes have always been directed towards kids and the YA audience, but particularly in the Silver and Bronze Ages, they also became sophisticated enough to appeal to adults as well. The darker, more adult stuff is a very recent development and while I enjoy some of it, I much prefer the Bronze Age influenced work.

The reason people love Deadpool and Daredevil but despise BvS is two-fold. For one, Deadpool and Daredevil stay true to the spirit of the characters whereas BvS twists them into something they're not. And two, for the non-comic audiences, Deadpool and Daredevil were well-written with plots that made sense and characterizations that were consistent. BvS had a scattershot plot and characters whose motivations and actions made zero sense.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> The reason people love Deadpool and Daredevil but despise BvS is two-fold. For one, Deadpool and Daredevil stay true to the spirit of the characters whereas BvS twists them into something they're not.


Pros and Cons of an 80 year production history. Traditional heroes are supported and also trapped by the canon. It's been fun writing something brand new.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LEBarbant said:


> Pros and Cons of an 80 year production history. Traditional heroes are supported and also trapped by the canon. It's been fun writing something brand new.


I don't see it as trapped at all. If you can't tell a good Superman story without turning Superman into someone completely unrecognizable, then you shouldn't be telling a Superman story. I like writing my original stuff, but I would also kill for the chance to work on some of these properties I've grown up reading.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I like writing my original stuff, but I would also kill for the chance to work on some of these properties I've grown up reading.


Ha ha I agree with that!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> It seems like a lot of the super hero novels making waves on amazon are geared more towards teenagers. The super hero novel that CM Raymond and I have been working on (thanks for all the cover feedback by the way) focuses on an adult audience. Anyone have any success with this or know of a superhero novel that has?


Check out T. Ellery Hodges' Never Hero. It was written for the NA+ audience (the protagonists are in the College age range), and the book was / is a huge success. Todd was able to quit his day job after only one book (plus audiobook).

My May 7th release includes a mix of teenage and adult protagonists, and while I assume it's going to be picked up by teenagers, the web serial version has many adult readers. It's a dark, sort of dystopian approach to superheroes with bad language and graphic violence. Hell, someone dies horribly at the end of the first chapter, and the series' overall character death toll is somewhere up there with Game of Thrones. Bad things can and will happen to good people. The fourth book in the series includes an entire arc that is pitch black (protagonist emerges as a permanently damaged emotional wreck kind of black).

I think Dire:Born (by a fellow kboarder) is also aimed at a mature audience, though I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

There is quite a bit of 'mature' superhero web fiction if you don't mind reading online, for instance this: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> I think Dire:Born (by a fellow kboarder) is also aimed at a mature audience, though I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
> 
> There is quite a bit of 'mature' superhero web fiction if you don't mind reading online, for instance this: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/


Yeah, mature-ish. The protagonist is in her 20s, and there's a ton of swearing and violence that kills or injures folks badly. People die. Pretty much an R rating for that.

Didn't know about "Never Hero". I'll have to go check that one out, thanks!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> I gotta say that I really, really dig this cover. Awesome!
> 
> The ominous figure menacingly obscuring the city behind is great. Really pulled me into a story and set the genre.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, Brian. The final is back from the designer, but Lee and I have a story meeting and record our podcast tonight, so we ill pitch your response onto the table and see what we think.

I do hope you check out the book when it drops in FIFTEEN DAYS   .

We're pretty proud of it.

CM


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> I love this cover! Well done! I'm also really enjoying the part time writers podcast as well.


Mjcaan,

Thanks for the feedback and we're so glad you're enjoying the podcast! We love doing it and it is keeping us busy and accountable.

CM


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Thanks so much, Brian. The final is back from the designer, but Lee and I have a story meeting and record our podcast tonight, so we ill pitch your response onto the table and see what we think.
> 
> I do hope you check out the book when it drops in FIFTEEN DAYS   .
> 
> ...


Post a reminder when it drops, and I'll certainly check it out.

Best of luck to you!

EDIT: Just to be clear, I really, really liked the cover. I don't think that any of my suggestions if taken would really make a huge impact.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> I do hope you check out the book when it drops in FIFTEEN DAYS   .
> 
> We're pretty proud of it.
> 
> CM


Hey, good luck in advance! I'll be sure to check it out if you put it in KU, and maybe even if you don't, depending on price.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Hey, good luck in advance! I'll be sure to check it out if you put it in KU, and maybe even if you don't, depending on price.


It'll be in KU for a quarter at least.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Harker, nice call on the early fade. Adding it to the list. Thanks.


Completely forgot I commented here until I went looking for the podcast this morning and wanted to re-see the cover


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Post a reminder when it drops, and I'll certainly check it out.
> 
> Best of luck to you!
> 
> EDIT: Just to be clear, I really, really liked the cover. I don't think that any of my suggestions if taken would really make a huge impact.


Totally cool. We really were asking for honest opinions. The "the" comment is interesting. We actually went back and forth about that before, but I think it makes sense with the series name and nuanced meanings...

I appreciate you pitching in. Truly!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

harker.roland said:


> Completely forgot I commented here until I went looking for the podcast this morning and wanted to re-see the cover


Here you go Harker.Roland.

Had him work the fade on your recommendation. Maybe not enough, but I think so.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I've just commissioned an illustration for the cover of my 11K superhero standalone short. Potential for a series if it's well-received. I'm looking forward to dipping my toes in this genre!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

alawston said:


> I've just commissioned an illustration for the cover of my 11K superhero standalone short. Potential for a series if it's well-received. I'm looking forward to dipping my toes in this genre!


Welcome aboard!


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

alawston said:


> I've just commissioned an illustration for the cover of my 11K superhero standalone short. Potential for a series if it's well-received. I'm looking forward to dipping my toes in this genre!


Welcome to the maddening crowd!

Shorts can be a tough sell, but an eye-grabbing cover helps immensely.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

As Lee and I have been doing our 52 week challenge podcast and hunting the elusive goal of going full-time, I've been reviewing old SPP podcasts for a little inspiration as the threesome worked to get their empire rolling.

I just listened to their one year anniversary show, and something Sean Platt said struck me: "Don't chase the puck, figure out where the puck is going and get there first" (or something like that).

This has been a constant conversation for Lee and I. While I keep arguing that we should write to market, Lee keeps saying that he can't image the Superhero genre not blowing up at any moment. 

If he's right, we're all in a pretty good place.

One thing that I think is encouraging is that we can do some legitimate cross-categorization with UF, as our Superhero world has a lot of magic. 

But I also think we could use this thread and start thinking of how to manufacture the movement of the thread together and influence the thread toward the genre. 

What do you think?

Alright, time to get writing. Book 2 goes to the editor tomorrow!

CM


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> As Lee and I have been doing our 52 week challenge podcast and hunting the elusive goal of going full-time, I've been reviewing old SPP podcasts for a little inspiration as the threesome worked to get their empire rolling.
> 
> I just listened to their one year anniversary show, and something Sean Platt said struck me: "Don't chase the puck, figure out where the puck is going and get there first" (or something like that).
> 
> ...


This is a great idea. Everyone who writes superhero novels (or like to read them) is tired of the "Superhero" category being filled with stuff that isn't the superhero genre. I think that's because as a group, we haven't really figured out what superheroes are in novel form. Some people write serials, others write short novels, some write huge epics. Some covers look like UF, others look like comic books. What is the superhero genre in written form?

I think another part of it is that we don't have a standout author (to my knowledge) that really defines superheroes in written form. Maybe if we start doing cross-promos and defining the difference between superheroes and UF or whatever else, we can reclaim the genre.

Of course, I say all of this with my superhero series still in my head. Someday I'll officially be a part of the superhero genre. When that comes, I want it to be something great.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Welcome to the maddening crowd!
> 
> Shorts can be a tough sell, but an eye-grabbing cover helps immensely.


Thanks! And thanks, Raymond!

I've found shorts endlessly frustrating to sell over the years, but also such terrific fun to write! I may hold off publishing for a while until such time as I have either a sequel more or less ready to go, or can expand the 11K to something a bit more commercially viable. It was originally written for an anthology submission, and there were elements I didn't develop in order to meet length restrictions...

I think this genre is going to be very big, very soon.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

David Neth said:


> This is a great idea. Everyone who writes superhero novels (or like to read them) is tired of the "Superhero" category being filled with stuff that isn't the superhero genre. I think that's because as a group, we haven't really figured out what superheroes are in novel form. Some people write serials, others write short novels, some write huge epics. Some covers look like UF, others look like comic books. What is the superhero genre in written form?
> 
> I think another part of it is that we don't have a standout author (to my knowledge) that really defines superheroes in written form. Maybe if we start doing cross-promos and defining the difference between superheroes and UF or whatever else, we can reclaim the genre.
> 
> Of course, I say all of this with my superhero series still in my head. Someday I'll officially be a part of the superhero genre. When that comes, I want it to be something great.


Once I get some time to breath, I am thinking about setting up a page like Patty's that is exclusively for superhero novels. Kboarders and others could "sign up" to have their books posted there, and then do some FB, mailing list, etc. promotion toward that page. We need to raise awareness for folks about the genre.

In this, I believe a rising tide will raise all boats... or something like that.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Once I get some time to breath, I am thinking about setting up a page like Patty's that is exclusively for superhero novels. Kboarders and others could "sign up" to have their books posted there, and then do some FB, mailing list, etc. promotion toward that page. We need to raise awareness for folks about the genre.
> 
> In this, I believe a rising tide will raise all boats... or something like that.


I think that's a really good start. Collect the folks who are truly in the genre together and present them to people who are looking for that type of story. The genre will only grow from there.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Some quick brainstorming help, if anyone is interested?

Naming (placing, things, people, groups, everything) is the bane of my existence as a writer. I need something to call supervillain fanboys. They're not really part of the battle at all; just people who root for the bad guys instead of the superheroes.

My best attempt so far: evil-lings.

Ugh!


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Here you go Harker.Roland.
> 
> Had him work the fade on your recommendation. Maybe not enough, but I think so.


Love the image even more now. My only comment/ critique now would be the author names. Is there a reason you chose to stack them the way you did? IMO the names take away from the excellent cover art you guys have. Have you thought about making them both smaller and putting them on the same row on the bottom?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

harker.roland said:


> Love the image even more now. My only comment/ critique now would be the author names. Is there a reason you chose to stack them the way you did? IMO the names take away from the excellent cover art you guys have. Have you thought about making them both smaller and putting them on the same row on the bottom?


I second that.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> Some quick brainstorming help, if anyone is interested?
> 
> Naming (placing, things, people, groups, everything) is the bane of my existence as a writer. I need something to call supervillain fanboys. They're not really part of the battle at all; just people who root for the bad guys instead of the superheroes.
> 
> ...


Do your villains have a specific group name or something you could play with? I'm thinking Grateful Dead fans going by deadheads (not implying that the grateful dead is an evil organization or anything). Or Joss Whedon fans going by Whedonites (definitely implying that Joss Whedon is a super villain). Are they French? They could be called Vill Amis. That's dumb don't use that. Villainites, EvilHeads...evil-lings is better than those. Knicks fans! (Do you see that CM Raymond, I made a sports joke)


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> This has been a constant conversation for Lee and I. While I keep arguing that we should write to market, Lee keeps saying that he can't image the Superhero genre not blowing up at any moment.
> 
> If he's right, we're all in a pretty good place.
> 
> ...


If you take a look at the highest grossing movies of all time, its insane how many of them are superhero movies from the last decade. Here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films
And its gotten to the point where even movies that get slammed by critics can still bring in huge box office pulls (I'm looking at you Batman V Superman).
Now, some of this is obviously due to a pre-set fan base from the comic world, but I imagine that's only a fraction of moviegoers. And, people are shelling out $12 to see 2 hours of a movie with characters almost no one knows (Ant Man, anyone?). 
The thing I love about this last decade of superhero movies, is that the films have taken the things everyone loves about the genre, quippy dialogue, awesome fight sequences, etc., and combining that with a level of depth and realism that connects emotionally with folks. Not saying comics don't do that, some of them are amazing, but movies are a more universally loved medium. 
Why can't books do that same thing?
I, like many people, can't get enough of superhero stuff, but comics don't hold my attention as well as books do. So the question for us is, how do we get folks who set the teaser trailer release dates on their calendars, dressing up and going to see these movies multiple times, to give our books a chance. I think they'll be pleased. 
Someone earlier on this post mentioned going to comiccons, I think that's an awesome idea and I'm definitely going to consider that approach for Steel City Heroes. 
Chris and I have been kicking around a YouTube series and we'll let you know if that gains any traction. There are dozens of successful YouTube channels focusing solely on superheroes. Even if ours is only a drop in the bucket, its a pretty large bucket. Seems worthwhile to me.
If/when we decide to release print versions, I might knock on doors at some local comic shops to see if they'd be willing to sell our book. 
I tried, unsuccessfully to get people to talk to me on some comic book message boards. I might give that another try.
Now that we have a cover, I've been trying to do some Twitter marketing. I don't love doing that and I'm not convinced it will work at all but its free and only takes a couple minutes a day. Why not, right?
I'm gonna send a link to The Catalyst to Chris Hardwick as a Hail Mary (two sports references in one day!!!). He seems like a nice guy and definitely has his finger on the pulse.

Any of you all have success along these lines? Any other out of the box strategies you've tried or have been thinking about trying?

Also, to your point about Superhero/Urban Fantasy crossover stuff, the Doctor Strange Trailer dropped yesterday. If that movie works (and its Benedict Cumberbatch, how could it not), it might be the perfect time for crossover novels.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> Do your villains have a specific group name or something you could play with? I'm thinking Grateful Dead fans going by deadheads (not implying that the grateful dead is an evil organization or anything). Or Joss Whedon fans going by Whedonites (definitely implying that Joss Whedon is a super villain). Are they French? They could be called Vill Amis. That's dumb don't use that. Villainites, EvilHeads...evil-lings is better than those. Knicks fans! (Do you see that CM Raymond, I made a sports joke)


The acknowledged evil mastermind genius is called Shadow Matter, but I'm not sure it works, plotwise to base their name off him. The bad guys only started working together recently in story time, having previously all just done their own thing.



> Knicks fans


Well, as a Saints season ticket holder, it would be the Awesome to name them in some way after Falcons fans, but I'm not sure exactly how I could justify it 

EDIT: And now I'm wondering if it might not just be better to refer to them as ... wait for it ... supervillain fanboys.

Thanks for the attempts!

Brian


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## scifi365 (Sep 12, 2014)

How about a compound word like 'Shmadows'. You could always introduce it (better than) this way:

Aimless Character 1: "Shadow Matter has just reverse engineered gravity so up is down and down is up."

Clued Up Character 2: "I heard. The Shmadows are all over it on Twitter."

Aimless Character 1: "The what now?"

Clued Up Character 2: "Shmadows. That's what the supervillain fanboys are calling themselves. Don't blame me. I think it sucks, too."


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

scifi365 said:


> How about a compound word like 'Shmadows'. You could always introduce it (better than) this way:
> 
> Aimless Character 1: "Shadow Matter has just reverse engineered gravity so up is down and down is up."
> 
> ...


This would definitely fit the tone of the book!

I think, though, that the term has to pre-exist the current crisis.

Thanks a bunch for the input!

Brian

EDIT: One of the reasons that I hate naming so much is that, in general, I'm so freaking picky about it. As y'all might have noticed ...


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## ThomasL (Jun 2, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> The acknowledged evil mastermind genius is called Shadow Matter, but I'm not sure it works, plotwise to base their name off him. The bad guys only started working together recently in story time, having previously all just done their own thing.
> 
> Well, as a Saints season ticket holder, it would be the Awesome to name them in some way after Falcons fans, but I'm not sure exactly how I could justify it
> 
> ...


Shadowlings?


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

The media can call them supervillain sympathizers, they can call themselves villainiacs, and the supervillains can call them idiots.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> The media can call them supervillain sympathizers, they can call themselves villainiacs, and the supervillains can call them idiots.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


I think I like evil-lings better than villianiacs (just doesn't roll off my tongue well) but I'm going to use the rest of that! That's great!


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I think I like evil-lings better than villianiacs (just doesn't roll off my tongue well) but I'm going to use the rest of that! That's great!


Well I have a hard time seeing people calling themselves evil. Villains, maybe, but not evil (unless they were being ironic). Even Osama bin Laden never referred to himself as that. No one views themselves as evil. Dark Followers, maybe? Darkcoats? The Villain Guard?

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> Well I have a hard time seeing people calling themselves evil. Villains, maybe, but not evil (unless they were being ironic). Even Osama bin Laden never referred to himself as that. No one views themselves as evil. Dark Followers, maybe? Darkcoats? The Villain Guard?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


That's a good point. Why do people root for bad guys? I'm having a hard time putting myself in their shoes.

Let's see. They believe the bad guys will win and want to be on the winning side. Or they believe that supporting the bad guys will advance their own interests. Or their belief system is so screwed up that they believe up is down and down is up.

Hmm.

Anyway, Darklings is out b/c it's been done, though I think it's superior to anything we've yet come up with.

Malicients? I think that has the same problem as evil-lings.

So how about this: they're, in a way, applying for a job hoping to be picked up by the evil guys when they win. Some play on Curriculum Vitae, like Curriculum Vile?

IDK.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> That's a good point. Why do people root for bad guys? I'm having a hard time putting myself in their shoes.


What I've noticed, and this may differ with your intentions for the rest of the story, is that no one person is intentionally evil. Everyone thinks they're doing the right thing. But what each person believes to be the "right thing" differs, and there lies the conflict. Think of politics. Everyone has an agenda. But it's not the chaos of "kill everyone and everything!" What most politicians want is power. How they get it makes them evil in some people's eyes.

What I'm trying to say is that the villain in your story (or antagonist, as I'm pushing here) is not the villain in his own story. He's the hero. So the people who follow him share his idea that he's the hero. Like Michael was saying, nobody is going to follow someone who is very clearly a bad person.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

How about Minnies, or minnows? Some derivative of minions?  Like "Oh, they to be minions when they grow up, but right now they're just tiny little twerps".


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

AndrewSeiple said:


> How about Minnies, or minnows? Some derivative of minions? Like "Oh, they to be minions when they grow up, but right now they're just tiny little twerps".


I kinda like minnows! Better than a made up word. And the explanation is funny.

Definitely the best suggestion yet!

EDIT: Yes, we have a winner. Awesome name.

Thanks.

Brian


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I was reading the post and my mind started trying to think of this nickname and then when I read "Evil-lings".. it simply shut down my brain and I had to reboot it.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I kinda like minnows! Better than a made up word. And the explanation is funny.
> 
> Definitely the best suggestion yet!
> 
> ...


You're welcome. I might use it myself.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

AndrewSeiple said:


> You're welcome. I might use it myself.


Okay, since everyone was so helpful last time, how about another question?

I'd written this line:



> Talk about a no-win scenario.


But I was thinking of changing it to the far superior:



> Talk about his own version of the _Kobayashi Maru_.


Is that fair use of a Star Trek term, though, or am I violating copyright?

Thanks again!

Brian


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

You can make star trek (or any pop culture) refrences, but just realize that not everyone reading will know that that is. I know a lot of people who read superhero stuff but don't know anything about Star Trek other than Kirk and Spock.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> You can make star trek (or any pop culture) refrences, but just realize that not everyone reading will know that that is. I know a lot of people who read superhero stuff but don't know anything about Star Trek other than Kirk and Spock.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


That's a danger whenever you use a pop culture reference, and I'm cool with the risk. Contextually, I think the meaning is obvious enough (combined with the previous paragraph that I didn't quote above).

Mainly, I was just worried about the copyright issues.

Thanks again!

Brian


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I know a lot of people who read superhero stuff but don't know anything about Star Trek other than Kirk and Spock.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


He's the one who wrote all those baby books right?


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> He's the one who wrote all those baby books right?


Nope.

He wrote _Rich Dad, Poor Dad_.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

OK, Superfriends, with the release date coming, I'm trying to get our ducks in a row.

Last night I worked a bit on keywords. 
My strategy is a combination of Nick Stephenson's category optimization and Evenstar's Monster Post on keywords.

So, the first couple I am trying to optimize for getting specific categories, the next five are keyword strings.

Any feedback would be welcomed:

superhero novel
urban fantasy
urban fiction series
paranormal mystery thriller suspense
science fiction fantasy action adventure
faculty professor college fiction hero
science fiction fantasy superhero


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> OK, Superfriends, with the release date coming, I'm trying to get our ducks in a row.
> 
> Last night I worked a bit on keywords.
> My strategy is a combination of Nick Stephenson's category optimization and Evenstar's Monster Post on keywords.
> ...


Scratch Urban Fiction. It does not mean what I thought it means!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> OK, Superfriends, with the release date coming, I'm trying to get our ducks in a row.
> 
> Last night I worked a bit on keywords.
> My strategy is a combination of Nick Stephenson's category optimization and Evenstar's Monster Post on keywords.
> ...


I'm still trying to work out keywords for my novel, so I can't give you specific ones other to say...

You absolutely HAVE to have "superhero" in one of your keyword strings or Amazon won't let you into the superhero category, per their required keywords page (for sci fi and fantasy, that's https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2G3ZMYDPB9VRM), so one of those.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

kdiem said:


> I'm still trying to work out keywords for my novel, so I can't give you specific ones other to say...
> 
> You absolutely HAVE to have "superhero" in one of your keyword strings or Amazon won't let you into the superhero category, per their required keywords page (for sci fi and fantasy, that's https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2G3ZMYDPB9VRM), so one of those.


Amazon now allows you to select Superhero as one of your two categories. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work. Pretty much every single release I've had has had Superhero as one of the categories and superhero appearing in the keywords. And yet each and every time, I STILL have to email KDP Support and tell them to put my books in the Kindle superhero category.

Pretty ridiculous that an actual superhero book has to jump through hoops to get into the superhero category, but steamy paranormal romances that have nothing to do with superheroes are able to get into it with no problem.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Amazon now allows you to select Superhero as one of your two categories. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work. Pretty much every single release I've had has had Superhero as one of the categories and superhero appearing in the keywords. And yet each and every time, I STILL have to email KDP Support and tell them to put my books in the Kindle superhero category.
> 
> Pretty ridiculous that an actual superhero book has to jump through hoops to get into the superhero category, but steamy paranormal romances that have nothing to do with superheroes are able to get into it with no problem.


Yeah. I keep going back and forth about leading a reporting assault on the PNR that fill up the charts. It's not right and not helpful for readers (or us).


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Figures the file is wrong. Watch me wind up in some bizarre category after following their directions. 

Professionally speaking, I feel it is very sloppy on Amazon's part not to keep their Help files updated.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Amazon now allows you to select Superhero as one of your two categories. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work. Pretty much every single release I've had has had Superhero as one of the categories and superhero appearing in the keywords. And yet each and every time, I STILL have to email KDP Support and tell them to put my books in the Kindle superhero category.


I just published the latest novel in my _Kid Sensation_ series, but I've never had a problem with being listed in the superhero category. (I think the only time I ever had an issue was when I first started publishing, because the superhero category didn't even exist back then.)

As for keywords, I don't know that terms like "novel" and "series" are necessary. Beyond that, I wouldn't hesitate to use words like meta, superpowers, supervillains, etc. - anything related to the genre or whatever your book is about.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KevinH said:


> I just published the latest novel in my _Kid Sensation_ series, but I've never had a problem with being listed in the superhero category. (I think the only time I ever had an issue was when I first started publishing, because the superhero category didn't even exist back then.)


But is it in both superhero categories? There are two: Books>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superheroes and Kindle Store>Kindle eBooks>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superhero.

I've found that checking the superhero category and adding superhero keywords only gets me into the Books one. I've always had to email KDP Support about getting into the Kindle Store category. I didn't realize this at first until someone pointed out the difference to me. Then I checked and found that my books, including the digital-only single episode releases, weren't in the Kindle Store Superhero category.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> But is it in both superhero categories? There are two: Books>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superheroes and Kindle Store>Kindle eBooks>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superhero.
> 
> I've found that checking the superhero category and adding superhero keywords only gets me into the Books one. I've always had to email KDP Support about getting into the Kindle Store category. I didn't realize this at first until someone pointed out the difference to me. Then I checked and found that my books, including the digital-only single episode releases, weren't in the Kindle Store Superhero category.


It's in both:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #1,136 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#3 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superhero
#3 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Metaphysical & Visionary
#4 in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superheroes


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Guess KDP hates me then. Every single time, I have to email Support to get it in the correct category.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Guess KDP hates me then. Every single time, I have to email Support to get it in the correct category.


Hmmm... Are you putting both Super_hero_ and Super_heroes_ in your keywords? For whatever reason, the two categories you mentioned make the distinction, so maybe that's the reason.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KevinH said:


> Hmmm... Are you putting both Super_hero_ and Super_heroes_ in your keywords? For whatever reason, the two categories you mentioned make the distinction, so maybe that's the reason.


Yup, they're both in there.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Yup, they're both in there.


In that case, it might be worthwhile to just flat-out ask them what keywords or category selections do you have to make in order for your book to automatically go into both. I'm really surprised that if it's located under one that it isn't automatically slotted into the other - seems like two sides of the same coin.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I am not sure my story qualifies as a super hero story. They have powers though.

The first novella focuses on one in particular, she is called Nel. Her powers were first exhibited when she was 3, the apartment was fully engulfed in flames and the young girl wasn't harmed at all, she even liked it. They are approaching adulthood now, all of them were born within 2 years of each other, and countries are using them in wars. The US is gathering these young people with powers for the war effort.

But the novella is pre-war. Nel's powers haven't blossomed yet, they're still weak. But another boy, Norm, has declared her to be his arch enemy, he had turned evil. Meanwhile all the really strong ones are preparing to leave the "boarding school", leaving her vulnerable to attack by Norm.








I am thinking that if there is any real interest shown in this novella, I'll write a novel about the war and focus on several of the characters.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Hi Superfriends!

I'm just now putting the finishing touches to my May 7th release. The preorder for book 2 will be going up at the same time, and I'd love to hear what you think about this blurb. CM Raymond, your feedback on the first blurb helped me out more than you'll ever know - I did a complete re-write and the new version turned out so much better.

Note: This is book 2 in a series, so readers will already know the characters behind the 4 names mentioned.

*One week after Shanti's death, the world still hasn't recovered from the chaos and outrage that ensued in the aftermath of her assassination. The international community is in shambles. Hundreds of thousands cry out in protest, demanding justice and answers to the power surge crisis.

Meanwhile, Chris and the other Wardens embark on a quest to track a powered serial killer in the far North. Their discovery triggers a chain reaction that escalates beyond the scope of what anyone thought possible, leading to untold disaster--and the emergence of supervillains.

Radiant, who is only just beginning to pick up the pieces of life and his reputation as a hero, finds himself challenged by new foes.

And Sarina discovers more about herself than she ever bargained for...*


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Hi Superfriends!
> 
> I'm just now putting the finishing touches to my May 7th release. The preorder for book 2 will be going up at the same time, and I'd love to hear what you think about this blurb. CM Raymond, your feedback on the first blurb helped me out more than you'll ever know - I did a complete re-write and the new version turned out so much better.
> 
> ...


I like it! Even without reading the first book (though I read the blurb) I can get a sense of what's going on here.

Second to last line, I'd go with "of his life and reputation."

Otherwise I like it, which might not be good news, because I am really wrestling with my and LE's blurb currently! (Maybe I'll post ours later tonight.)

Looking forward to the release! Are you going KU?


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Lee and I are talking pretty seriously about trying to get some serious SH collaboration/promotion going this summer.

Thinking of:

Co-promotion on social media and mailing lists.
A simple site like Patty Jansen's for SH novels.
Maybe a first in series boxset.

Open to other ideas. Right now, superhero genre is pretty wide-open. I think we could make something of it!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Looking forward to the release! Are you going KU?


Yay! Um... I might, still undecided. I'll definitely do a 99 cent launch, though. Firat 3 days or something like that.



CM Raymond said:


> Lee and I are talking pretty seriously about trying to get some serious SH collaboration/promotion going this summer.
> 
> Thinking of:
> 
> ...


I've been meaning to do a Bookbub style (on a MUCH smaller scale) mailing list exclusively for superhero fiction. I could probably bring the Pen and Cape society aboard.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Lee and I are talking pretty seriously about trying to get some serious SH collaboration/promotion going this summer.
> 
> Thinking of:
> 
> ...


I think a first in series boxset would be the best idea. Co-promotion on mailing lists is a little harder because I don't like advocating on behalf of something I haven't read myself. Patty does a lot of work on her site and she's got a pretty big list that she uses to help get those downloads, just the site alone isn't enough. So the boxset would probably be the best idea.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> Lee and I are talking pretty seriously about trying to get some serious SH collaboration/promotion going this summer.
> 
> Thinking of:
> 
> ...


I'd be interested in the boxset. Those things sell like hotcakes.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

KevinH said:


> I'd be interested in the boxset. Those things sell like hotcakes.


Alright, let's keep it on the front burner. I am WAY too busy to coordinate it as I'll be out of the country for most of May, and it is grading season in the day job... Oh, and I am on the verge of finishing and releasing three books!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Another question for the superfriends:

LE and I are saving the fat stacks for doing promos when book three is launched in mid-summer. But I want to do a few cheaper ones that accept $.99 books at launch. Already planning BKnights. Anyplace else you'd recommend, particularly sites that have been helpful for SH books?

Thanks,

CM


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'd definitely contribute the first in my series for a boxed set.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Alright, everybody. My turn for a blurb. 

I'm finding it hard to write this, being so close to the story. Love it if people gave some feedback (and LE wrote it, so I won't be offended, though he might cry in a corner):

A mad scientist fighting the laws of man and nature. A demon-monster of mythical proportions. A corporate conspiracy that goes back more than a century.

The Steel City is in desperate need of a hero.

When Sean Moretti’s powers began to manifest themselves, a lifetime of comic books taught him what to do. Already struggling to make it as a normal college student, his new found ability to sense energy in those around him didn’t make his life any easier. A hero can’t turn his back on his power, but what good is seeing if no one else believes? As destructive forces descend upon Sean’s city, he must learn to channel his abilities or die trying. Heroism doesn’t require great strength, just the willingness to make a difference.

Willa Weil has a secret--she’s comes from a long line of magicians trained to unlock the power hidden in within poetry. This skill requires discipline and the Guild demands obedience. Forced to keep her gifts hidden from a world that needs them, Willa has long kept her power to herself. But when a monster threatens to consume her friends, she can no longer remain on the sidelines. Being a hero comes with a price and sometimes good intentions breed terrifying consequences.

History professor Dr. Elijah Branton moved to Pittsburgh for the job of a lifetime, researching the family history of one of the nation’s wealthiest and most attractive CEOs. But not everything is as it seems in the Steel City. The historian soon unearths a deadly conspiracy that threatens to unravel his world. As ancient myths come to life, Elijah must open his mind, or risk losing it. Maybe it’s better for the past to remain buried.

Can they save their city, or will they lose themselves in the process?

A superhero/urban fantasy crossover, The Catalyst: Steel City Heroes Book 1,  is Daredevil meets the Dresden Files, a gritty and gripping superhero story for the 21st century. A tale of magic and monsters, science and secrets, The Catalyst pushes readers to consider their own path and the ethical compromises we all make—heroes and villains alike. 

Editor’s Note: While not gratuitous, The Catalyst contains strong language.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> But is it in both superhero categories? There are two: Books>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superheroes and Kindle Store>Kindle eBooks>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superhero.
> 
> I've found that checking the superhero category and adding superhero keywords only gets me into the Books one. I've always had to email KDP Support about getting into the Kindle Store category. I didn't realize this at first until someone pointed out the difference to me. Then I checked and found that my books, including the digital-only single episode releases, weren't in the Kindle Store Superhero category.


I have the exact same issue. With my three superhero books, all of which were placed in the Superhero category on the KDP publishing page and all of which contain superhero/superheroes in the keywords, I had to email KDP Support to be put into the Kindle Superheroes subcategory. They did so without an issue, but you would think emailing them would not be necessary.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> A mad scientist fighting the laws of man and nature. A demon-monster of mythical proportions. A corporate conspiracy that goes back more than a century.
> 
> The Steel City is in desperate need of a hero.
> 
> ...


Some thoughts: I kinda like it overall, though it could be tightened up some. Also, I personally wouldn't make any references to established series unless those connections were drawn by reviewers first. Even if just 1 out of 10 readers is put off, that's still a customer lost.

Here's just some quick suggestions - take these with a grain of salt as English isn't my first language. Also: the 'ability to sense energy in those around him' threw me. What kind of energy? Life energy? Powers? Something else? I suggest rephrasing. You want powers to sound cool (and not confusing) in the blurb. Also, the 'monster that threatens to consume her friends' sounds awfully generic. What kind of monster? What makes it scary? Maybe you can elaborate just a bit without adding too many details.

A mad scientist fighting the laws of man and nature. A demon-monster of mythical proportions. A corporate conspiracy that goes back more than a century.

The Steel City is in desperate need of a hero.

When Sean Moretti's powers *manifested*, a lifetime of comic books taught him what to do. Already struggling to make it as a normal college student, *his ability* to sense energy in those around him *did nothing to simplify his life*. A hero can't turn his back on his powe*r. A*s destructive forces descend upon Sean's city, he must learn to channel *his potential* or die *trying.*

Willa Weil has a secret--*she* comes from a long line of magicians trained to unlock the power *hidden within *poetry. This skill requires discipline and the Guild demands obedience. Forced to *keep* her *gifts from* a world that needs them, Willa *has never revealed her potential.* But when a monster threatens to consume her friends, she can no longer remain on the sidelines. Being a hero comes* at *a price*...*

History professor Dr. Elijah Branton moved to Pittsburgh for the job of a lifetime*, b*ut not everything is as it seems in the Steel City. The historian soon unearths a deadly conspiracy that threatens to unravel his world. As ancient myths come to life, Elijah must open his min*d o*r risk losing it. *Sometimes it's best if the past remains buried.*

Can they save their city, or will they lose themselves*?*


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## jellybelly (Apr 20, 2016)

Ahhhhhh!

I'm having a total mental blank, can someone in this thread help me please?

What is the thing around Anne Hathaway's eyes here called:










Surely there has to be a better term than the only thing my brain is coming up with, which is "blindfold with eye holes"

Thanks in advance!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

It's a half-mask covering the eyes only. You could further specify it as a Victorian or Venetian half-mask, though I don't really know what the difference is.


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## jellybelly (Apr 20, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> It's a half-mask covering the eyes only. You could further specify it as a Victorian or Venetian half-mask, though I don't really know what the difference is.


THANK YOU!! Half mask is perfect


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

It goes:

Domino Mask
Half Mask
Drama mask (Phantom-style mask where there's one half of the face covered)
Cowl (applies to any covering that covers both head and eyes including the Dread Pirate Westley-style bandanna over the head with eye-holes)
Ski-Mask
Half-helm
Helmet

There's also the hood that somehow always leaves your eyes constantly in shadow and the zero-face mask worn by The Question and his obnoxious clone, Rorschach.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

My turn to request help with a blurb... The first sentence in particular is awkward, but at this point I have a block on fixing it. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it. 

----------
Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a spontaneous coma, quarantined, and with super powers she needed to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus. 

The only thing weirder would have been if the blind date had gone well.

Super is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and contains strong language, sexual references, and violence. 
----------

Thanks!


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Vaalingrade said:


> It goes:
> 
> Domino Mask
> Half Mask
> ...


I was going to go with "domino."


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Since we were talking about superhero novels for grown-ups earlier, I'd like to draw your attention to Drew Hayes' latest release: Corpies.

Drew's novels are among the most well-written self-pubbed books out there. His main superhero series, Super Powereds, features teen characters and is a bit juvenile at times, but Corpies (a SP spin-off) follows an adult (homosexual) hero who happens to be the father of one of those teens. Check it out! http://www.amazon.com/Corpies-Super-Powereds-Spinoff-Book-ebook/dp/B01D9C21DE/


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Hi Superfriends!
> 
> I'm just now putting the finishing touches to my May 7th release. The preorder for book 2 will be going up at the same time, and I'd love to hear what you think about this blurb. CM Raymond, your feedback on the first blurb helped me out more than you'll ever know - I did a complete re-write and the new version turned out so much better.
> 
> ...


If you're still looking for feedback, I'll take a stab at it ...



> One week after Shanti's death, the world still hasn't recovered from the chaos and outrage that ensued in the aftermath of her assassination. The international community is in shambles. Hundreds of thousands cry out in protest, demanding justice and answers to the power surge crisis.


I hate the word "still" in that first sentence because it implies that the world should have been expected to recover in a week. How chaotic could things have been if it only took a week to recover from?

"that ensued in the aftermath" is kind of clunky. Simply "outrage following (or that followed?) her assassination" is a lot tighter.

I don't like "cry out in protest, demanding ..." as it just doesn't seem to add anything. How about just "... thousands demand justice and answers ..."?



> Meanwhile, Chris and the other Wardens embark on a quest to track a powered serial killer in the far North. Their discovery triggers a chain reaction that escalates beyond the scope of what anyone thought possible, leading to untold disaster--and the emergence of supervillains.


"embark on a quest to track" is a little wordy. How about something simple like, "try to find" or, since "quest" is a cool word that you may want to leave in, "quest for a powered ..."?



> And Sarina discovers more about herself than she ever bargained for...


Sorry, but I really don't like this line at all. I think mainly because it doesn't actually relate any information. Really, it says, "Oh, and Sarina is also in the book."

Note that pitches are not my specialty at all, so please take all my "advice" with a huge grain of salt. Really, I'll not be offended at all if you completely disregard.

On the other hand, I do hope that it provides some assistance.

Brian


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Alright, everybody. My turn for a blurb.
> 
> I'm finding it hard to write this, being so close to the story. Love it if people gave some feedback (and LE wrote it, so I won't be offended, though he might cry in a corner):
> 
> ...


I'll take a stab at it ...

First impression - man, it's long! Are other pitches in the genre on the order of 350+ words?

I really like the "The Steel City is in desperate need of a hero." To me, that's a stronger lead in than the first paragraph that you have now. Of course, I'm a bit biased in that I tend to hate that whole "A ..." "A ..." "A ..." opening, so, you know, grain of salt.



> When Sean Moretti's powers began to manifest themselves, a lifetime of comic books taught him what to do.


I literally cringed at "began to." "Manifested," imo, is so much better.

Interesting implication in this sentence. If he knows what to do because of comic books and not from the actions of actual superheroes, does this mean he's the first/only superhero?



> Already struggling to make it as a normal college student, his new found ability to sense energy in those around him didn't make his life any easier. A hero can't turn his back on his power, but what good is seeing if no one else believes? As destructive forces descend upon Sean's city, he must learn to channel his abilities or die trying. Heroism doesn't require great strength, just the willingness to make a difference.


Should "newfound" be one word? A quick search indicates that that usage seems more standard.

Seems like you're writing this in present tense. Should "didn't" be "doesn't?"

"A hero can't turn his back on his power, but what good is seeing if no one else believes?" Does this sentence do anything for you? What happens if you just cut it? If you want to keep it, can you make it do more or be more powerful. It just sort of languishes there as it is.

"descend upon Sean's city," - Maybe "The Steel City" to tie it back in with the opening?



> Willa Weil has a secret--she's comes from a long line of magicians trained to unlock the power hidden in within poetry. This skill requires discipline and the Guild demands obedience.


I'm not sure what the "secret" does for you. Why not just, "Willa Weil comes from a..."? Or if you really want to keep the secret thing, why are you separating two sentences with dashes? Either a period or, if you must, a semicolon, makes more sense, right?



> Forced to keep her gifts hidden from a world that needs them, Willa has long kept her power to herself.


You've now told me the same thing three times in one paragraph. 1. A secret. 2. she's been forced to keep her gifts hidden. 3. Willa has long kept her power to herself.

It seems like this whole deal would be more effective if each paragraph repeated the same format as closely as possible. Ending each with "Being a hero ..." would, imo, work pretty well.



> A superhero/urban fantasy crossover, The Catalyst: Steel City Heroes Book 1, is Daredevil meets the Dresden Files, a gritty and gripping superhero story for the 21st century. A tale of magic and monsters, science and secrets, The Catalyst pushes readers to consider their own path and the ethical compromises we all make-heroes and villains alike.


Here on kboards, you'll find some people who really, really know what they're doing. You should take their advice whenever you can get it. To be clear, I am not one of those people. But I'm pretty sure that most of them would advise you to completely cut this paragraph. Really. Seriously. Put some major thought into just getting rid of it. In fact, edit the original post to get rid of it 

Overall, the pitch isn't bad. Conceptually, it made me interested to read the story. I do think, however, that some tightening would be a good thing!

Hope this helps!

Brian


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> My turn to request help with a blurb... The first sentence in particular is awkward, but at this point I have a block on fixing it. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> ----------
> Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a spontaneous coma, quarantined, and with super powers she needed to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus.
> ...


First impression - I got a definite vibe as to your style and I laughed. I'd be likely to check out the sample based solely on that vibe.



> Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas.


I understand your difficulty with this one. It sounds awkward because you're trying to cram too much info into one sentence, but that info really works for your vibe. I think you have to keep all the info, but you gotta split it into two sentences. Just doesn't work as is, imo.



> The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a spontaneous coma, quarantined, and with super powers she needed to hide from everyone, including her family.


This sentence makes it sound like her super powers give her the needed ability to hide from everyone, including her family. I had to re-read it to get that it was necessary to hide her powers from everyone.

With those two minor quibbles, I really dug this one.

Hope this helps.

Brian


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> I'll take a stab at it ...
> 
> Brian


Brian, thanks, really. This is incredibly helpful.

We are divided on the "Daredevil meets Dresden" thing. We actually included it because of a long thread somewhere on Kboards where the overwhelming majority seemed to be in favor of it.

Personally, as a reader, I don't prefer this. But I've been trying to set aside personal preferences as much as I can.

We will certainly consider.

And, yes, it is WAY long! This is after thrashing it for a day...

We will see.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> We are divided on the "Daredevil meets Dresden" thing. We actually included it because of a long thread somewhere on Kboards where the overwhelming majority seemed to be in favor of it.


Really? I must have missed that particular thread. It seems to me that every time something like this has come up, the people I respect have all said, "No! Horrible idea! Run!"

I definitely leave room for the possibility of me misconflating the issue, however. My first name is "Brian," and we're known for that whole misconflating thing.

Glad you found the comments useful


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Really? I must have missed that particular thread. It seems to me that every time something like this has come up, the people I respect have all said, "No! Horrible idea! Run!"
> 
> I definitely leave room for the possibility of me misconflating the issue, however. My first name is "Brian," and we're known for that whole misconflating thing.
> 
> Glad you found the comments useful


Well, again, you and I share that position...
Thanks again!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Brian, thanks, really. This is incredibly helpful.


Was I not helpful? 



BWFoster78 said:


> If you're still looking for feedback, I'll take a stab at it ...
> 
> I hate the word "still" in that first sentence because it implies that the world should have been expected to recover in a week. How chaotic could things have been if it only took a week to recover from?
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks! I JUST sent the final version of the blurb to the formatter, but I'll incorporate some tweaks for the book description on Amazon. 

The last sentence is much more 'telling' after reading the first book. I really appreciate the suggestions, though.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Was I not helpful?


Oh, snap! I didn't send a thank you?

Yes... Very much so!!

So, sorry!


----------



## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> Alright, everybody. My turn for a blurb.
> 
> I'm finding it hard to write this, being so close to the story. Love it if people gave some feedback (and LE wrote it, so I won't be offended, though he might cry in a corner):
> 
> ...


Please don't cry, LE.

Brian and C. Rysalis both had good advice. Instead of repeating their advice, I'll throw together a quick rewrite. Mark me down in the avoid references to established books group... I also belong to the percentage of readers irritated by books telling me how they're going to make me think/feel/eat a cookie.

I won't be offended if you ignore my advice. Grain of salt, newbie, etc. disclaimer.

------
The Steel City is in desperate need of a hero or three.

When college student Sean Moretti's power to sense energy (What kind? Is he sensing others' powers?) in those around him manifested, he knew how to handle them, thanks to a lifetime of comic books. As a mad scientist unleashes destructive forces upon Sean's city, he must learn to channel his abilities or die trying. Heroism doesn't require great strength, just the willingness to make a difference.

Willa Weil comes from a long line of magicians trained to unlock the power hidden in within poetry. Forced to keep her beloved discipline hidden, Willa is tested when a demonic monster of mythical proportions threatens to consume her friends and city. Heroism can have a price and sometimes good intentions breed terrifying consequences.

History professor Dr. Elijah Branton moved to Pittsburgh for a dream job researching the family history of one of the nation's wealthiest CEOs. When the historian accidentally unearths a deadly, centuries-old conspiracy that threatens to unravel his world, Elijah must open his mind or risk losing it. Heroism may require letting the past remain buried.

Editor's Note: While not gratuitous, The Catalyst contains strong language.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Please don't cry, LE.
> 
> Brian and C. Rysalis both had good advice. Instead of repeating their advice, I'll throw together a quick rewrite. Mark me down in the avoid references to established books group... I also belong to the percentage of readers irritated by books telling me how they're going to make me think/feel/eat a cookie.
> 
> ...


Yes. IMO this is much, much better than the original.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> First impression - I got a definite vibe as to your style and I laughed. I'd be likely to check out the sample based solely on that vibe.
> 
> I understand your difficulty with this one. It sounds awkward because you're trying to cram too much info into one sentence, but that info really works for your vibe. I think you have to keep all the info, but you gotta split it into two sentences. Just doesn't work as is, imo.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Brian! You're on fire today with the blurb assistance.

Issue 1. Yeah, I'm still trying to rewrite it, but I keep getting sidetracked with hero sandwich jokes. I'll try again after dinner. That one sentence... *shakes her fist at it*

Issue 2. That's a pretty easy fix, and you have a point. I changed "needed to hide" to "has to hide."


----------



## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Thanks, Brian! You're on fire today with the blurb assistance.
> 
> Issue 1. Yeah, I'm still trying to rewrite it, but I keep getting sidetracked with hero sandwich jokes. I'll try again after dinner. That one sentence... *shakes her fist at it*
> 
> Issue 2. That's a pretty easy fix, and you have a point. I changed "needed to hide" to "has to hide."


Glad to be of assistance. I look forward to checking this out when you release it.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> My turn to request help with a blurb... The first sentence in particular is awkward, but at this point I have a block on fixing it. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> ----------
> Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a spontaneous coma, quarantined, and with super powers she needed to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus.
> ...


I'm with Brian in that I like your blurb generally. Let me pick a few nits, though: (1) "The second-to-last thing she expected...." What's the last thing she expected, then? Is that the blind date going well? I'm confused; (2) "Spontaneous coma"? Aren't comas by their nature spontaneous? Except medically induced ones, I suppose; (3) I agree the first sentence is slightly awkward.

Let me take a stab at a slight rewrite with the standard protestation that a blind man such as myself has no business trying to teach someone else how to paint:

Zita Garcia is an adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant. She wouldn't know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a coma, quarantined, and with super powers she has to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus.

The only thing weirder would have been if her blind date had gone well.

Super is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and contains strong language, sexual references, and violence.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

The only line I would at all nitpick about is this one: "Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus."

Being a woman myself, I'm not sure whether I should be offended by the notion that a heroine can't necessarily do all of the above without getting naked? Am I misunderstanding something?

I lied, there's something else. The line about the blind date comes out of nowhere, with no previous context. It threw me a bit. If that was your intention, then all is good.


----------



## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> As Lee and I have been doing our 52 week challenge podcast and hunting the elusive goal of going full-time, I've been reviewing old SPP podcasts for a little inspiration as the threesome worked to get their empire rolling.
> 
> I just listened to their one year anniversary show, and something Sean Platt said struck me: "Don't chase the puck, figure out where the puck is going and get there first" (or something like that).
> 
> ...


----------



## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> Lee and I are talking pretty seriously about trying to get some serious SH collaboration/promotion going this summer.
> 
> Thinking of:
> 
> ...


I would be into that! Right now I'm working on the third and final installment of my series. I had planned to launch a promo assault at that point, focusing on the first in the series. What are you thinking? 
MJ


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> I would be into that! Right now I'm working on the third and final installment of my series. I had planned to launch a promo assault at that point, focusing on the first in the series. What are you thinking?
> MJ


I could be interested in organizing this mid-summer. If I were driving the bus, I would pitch:

KU selections only (because I'm planning on staying in for a while and most SH books I've research are in KU)
A limited shelf life (because not everybody wants to commit to KU forever)
First in series
Some sort of rating requirement (4 stars plus, ten reviews... nothing crazy)
Either we do it free or $.99. If the latter, we pour all proceeds up to a certain amount into marketing (I go back and forth on this one)
If we went with a profit sharing model, I could run it through my small business, do taxes/payments etc. but would hope for a share for the extra PITA of orchestrating all of that
Of course, would be happy if someone else wants to run with it (as long as they don't leave us out)


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> The only line I would at all nitpick about is this one: "Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus."
> 
> Being a woman myself, I'm not sure whether I should be offended by the notion that a heroine can't necessarily do all of the above without getting naked? Am I misunderstanding something?


I agree with C Rysalis. Was this a joke about her ripping off her clothes because her costume's underneath? Like superman? If so that's a funny concept, not sure though how you could make that more clear.


----------



## Dhiraj M Nair (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi everyone.

My name is Dhiraj and I have been a lurker here for a long time. I saw this thread and it inspired me to finally sign up and make an account. I am an aspiring writer with more than a few ideas bouncing around in this head of mine. One of which is to do with superheroes. I thought I could pitch it to you all and see what you think. All of you have impressive credentials so it would be great to hear your opinion.

My take on the genre is somewhat different to that portrayed here. Being both an Indian and an avid reader of comics I have seen that - until recently - representation of South Asian cultures in comics have only _recently_ begun to improve. I have no doubt the momentum is going to gather steam, but I thought it would be fun to play with this phenomena.

The rough idea consists of a young Muslim migrant from a war-torn country that travels to America dreaming of becoming a superhero. Here, becoming a superhero is akin to joining a mix of WWE and Hollywood - everything is staged and you can become rich and famous, but the competition is incredibly fierce. Unfortunately, given his background and the current political climate, the immigrant soon finds himself on the middle rung of stardom as a hackneyed terrorist supervillain instead. So after dying (and resurrecting) for the umpteenth time, our hero (villain?) decides that in order to switch sides he's going to have to become more villainous than ever.

So its a mix of Fight Club meets Watchmen meets The Reluctant Fundamentalist. What do you guys think?


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Dhiraj M Nair said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> My name is Dhiraj and I have been a lurker here for a long time. I saw this thread and it inspired me to finally sign up and make an account. I am an aspiring writer with more than a few ideas bouncing around in this head of mine. One of which is to do with superheroes. I thought I could pitch it to you all and see what you think. All of you have impressive credentials so it would be great to hear your opinion.
> 
> ...


I think this sounds absolutely awesome! Good luck with it!


----------



## Dhiraj M Nair (Apr 7, 2016)

Thank you alawston, that's so nice to hear. I think even a bit of encouragement can do wonders for a fledgling author. You have my thanks.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Dhiraj M Nair said:


> My take on the genre is somewhat different to that portrayed here. Being both an Indian and an avid reader of comics I have seen that - until recently - representation of South Asian cultures in comics have only _recently_ begun to improve. I have no doubt the momentum is going to gather steam, but I thought it would be fun to play with this phenomena.
> 
> The rough idea consists of a young Muslim migrant from a war-torn country that travels to America dreaming of becoming a superhero. Here, becoming a superhero is akin to joining a mix of WWE and Hollywood - everything is staged and you can become rich and famous, but the competition is incredibly fierce. Unfortunately, given his background and the current political climate, the immigrant soon finds himself on the middle rung of stardom as a hackneyed terrorist supervillain instead. So after dying (and resurrecting) for the umpteenth time, our hero (villain?) decides that in order to switch sides he's going to have to become more villainous than ever.


Yay! I'd love to read more stories (in all genres) featuring characters from countries we don't read about ALL the time. My own prologue features a young Bollywood singer, and a surprisingly high percentage of my readers are from India. 

Some thoughts - while reincarnation / resurrection stories do really well on sites like Royal Road, the average Amazon customer seems to prefer more 'realistic' stories. Yes, I know - talking about realism in a superhero story seems silly, but regardless of superpowers the plot (and the characters) should still be believable if you want the story to do really well. Personally, I don't know if I'd read a story where the protagonist gets resurrected over and over again - it would take away from the suspense. Also, it's pretty hard to create a supervillain protagonist who is also likeable. I've read lots and lots of reviews for superhero novels on Amazon lately, and 'unbelievable plot' and 'unlikeable protagonist' are among the top complaints mentioned in bad reviews.

If you aren't already active on Royal road, I'd recommend first building an audience there. I think the story you described would go viral on there. The audience you build on RRL (if you decide to go for it) will give you a nice starting sales boost when you're ready to publish on Amazon. Free marketing!


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## Dhiraj M Nair (Apr 7, 2016)

Thank you so much, C. Rysalis. It brings me a lot of joy to hear about your Bollywood singer, and I look forward to checking out your work. If you ever need further details about Indian life or culture please feel free to PM me.

You have raised a bunch of good things worth thinking about. I did not even know about Royal Road until now, so thank you for pointing it out. It bears investigating. Your point about resurrection is definitely a great one, but I think I have a way or two of making it 'realistic' without putting people off. And as for making a villain likable - that's the billion dollar question, for sure. Have you read Austin Grossman's _Invincible_? I think it did a great job of making a villain likable. And since I'm aiming towards making it a black comedy I think I can pull it off!

Thanks so much once again for the warm welcome and encouragement.


----------



## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

You're welcome! I'll take you up on that offer if I write any more chapters taking place in India 

I haven't read Invincible, but I read Worm (the web serial) and even though I liked the main character, some people posted very negative opinions about her and some of the villainous things she had to do. You might need thick skin if you're going the supervillain route.

Regarding Royal Road - you could talk to Durrendal. He's another writer from India whose story is EXTREMELY popular on that site. His story is very 18+ though, so I don't know if that's your thing.

Link to RRL: http://royalroadl.com/fictions/active-top-50/

Best of luck!


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Dhiraj M Nair said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> My name is Dhiraj and I have been a lurker here for a long time. I saw this thread and it inspired me to finally sign up and make an account. I am an aspiring writer with more than a few ideas bouncing around in this head of mine. One of which is to do with superheroes. I thought I could pitch it to you all and see what you think. All of you have impressive credentials so it would be great to hear your opinion.
> 
> ...


I think that sounds like a really good read. Welcome to the thread and good luck with the writing!
MJ


----------



## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> I could be interested in organizing this mid-summer. If I were driving the bus, I would pitch:
> 
> KU selections only (because I'm planning on staying in for a while and most SH books I've research are in KU)
> A limited shelf life (because not everybody wants to commit to KU forever)
> ...


I'd be up for all of that. I'm sure there are some other Sh writers that would love some first book exposure. I'm all for dumping profits into marketing. That seems to be the hardest nut to crack here. Getting those eyes on product. Of course, if you are the "show runner" you should get a little something for your efforts too.


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## Dhiraj M Nair (Apr 7, 2016)

Thank you, C. Rysalis! I will dive in to your links with glee and gusto. 

And thank you for the encouragement Mjcaan. Really appreciate it.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> Of course, if you are the "show runner" you should get a little something for your efforts too.


Thanks.

Or we just keep pouring any proceeds back into marketing. The biggest area of work would be payouts, tax forms, adding this to my business filing, etc. If we just keep the pot zeroed out I can claim an even gain/loss. I certainly wouldn't mind putting money into a relatively inexpensive cover and maybe formatting and recouping that over time.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

You could always share the cost for cover and formatting and choose an artist / formatter whose service offer everyone is comfortable with.

I'm a stickler for great covers. They seem to have an even greater impact in superhero fiction than they do elsewhere.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Many thanks to Darius Brasher, LE Barbant, and C Rysalis for their feedback on my blurb.

C. Rysalis and LE Barbant - The clothing sentence had nothing to do with Zita being a woman. While nudity is a recurring challenge for Zita, male characters have clothing retention problems too for similar reasons. You just see less of them because it's Zita's book. Thank you both for pointing it out, however! I'm too close to the book to have realized readers might get the wrong impression given the lack of context in the blurb. I especially hate the thought of someone reading or not reading the book because they think Zita sexes her way through things. That's not her style or mine. Book 2 will give Zita a solution to the nudity issue, btw. I guess it's good I went with _Super_ over _The Search for Pants_.

Darius - I received the same comment from someone else about comas. It's a pity, because I love the phrase "spontaneous coma." Don't ask me why.

Try #2
-------------
Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable account Zita Garcia goes on yet another blind date, assuming it will end quickly and she can go do something, anything, more interesting. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a coma, quarantined, and with super powers she has to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Too bad she doesn't know a superhero from someone getting the mail in their pajamas.

The only thing weirder would have been if the date had gone well.

_Super_ is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and would be rated "R" for language, lame sexual innuendo, and necessary violence if it were a movie.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Original:



> Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a spontaneous coma, quarantined, and with super powers she needed to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Keeping her clothes on all day would be a nice bonus.
> 
> The only thing weirder would have been if the blind date had gone well.
> 
> Super is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and contains strong language, sexual references, and violence.


New:



> Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable account Zita Garcia goes on yet another blind date, assuming it will end quickly and she can go do something, anything, more interesting. The second-to-last thing she expected was to wake from a coma, quarantined, and with super powers she has to hide from everyone, including her family. Now Zita must master her new abilities while dodging kidnappers, evading government inquiries, and finding her missing brother. Too bad she doesn't know a superhero from someone getting the mail in their pajamas.
> 
> The only thing weirder would have been if the date had gone well.
> 
> Super is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and would be rated "R" for language, lame sexual innuendo, and necessary violence if it were a movie.


When I read the second version, I was like, "Meh." I posted them both to see if I could figure out why I felt that way.

The problem with getting something thoroughly nitpicked is that you can end up losing a lot of your voice. I think that the first version was funny and interesting and quirky. In comparison, the second version just seems ... drab. Though that first sentence in the original version was clunky, it was also interesting and flowed with the story you're telling. You have a not quite normal person who knows nothing about superheroes. She acquires powers. Hi-jinks and zaniness ensue.

Your new first sentence is kind of boring. In fact, you're implying that she's bored with it, wanting to do something, anything, more interesting. In general, it's seems like a bad idea to imply that your character is bored because it kind of conveys that your book might be boring. I also think tossing the clothing thing makes it less interesting as well. If that's a part of the story, perhaps clarify it a bit instead of getting rid of it completely.

Again, my first impression of your writing is that its quirky and zany. If that is what you're trying to convey, you really want your pitch to play up that quirkiness and zaniness, right? It feels like this second version is an attempt to dial back those qualities. If that's what you want, I think you need to turn that dial even further away from wacky. I don't think that the middle ground is working for you.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

It's the guy in his pajamas that wrecks it for me - it's a lot of words to say that she can't tell a superhero from an ordinary person. And I'm not sure why this is really relevant - I get that you're saying she's not a comics reader, or whatever. Is there a character getting mail in their pajamas? Because unless it's a plot point (and frankly, maybe even if it is), you can hack this down. Something like: "Too bad she's always thought 'superhero' was a brand of tampon / beer / coffee size / gay fireman!"


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

The Catalyst is finally live.

My index finger is getting sore from refreshing.

amzn.to/1SAH0AN 

Thanks for all your help!


----------



## lincolnjcole (Mar 15, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> The Catalyst is finally live.
> 
> My index finger is getting sore from refreshing.
> 
> ...


Congrats and best of luck! I love superhero stuff, especially when the hero is flawed.


----------



## Kenosha Kid (Jun 23, 2011)

That looks awesome, CM! And I love the cover.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> The Catalyst is finally live.
> 
> My index finger is getting sore from refreshing.
> 
> ...


Congrats! Best of luck.


----------



## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> The Catalyst is finally live.
> 
> My index finger is getting sore from refreshing.
> 
> ...





lincolnjcole said:


> Congrats and best of luck! I love superhero stuff, especially when the hero is flawed.


Ha ha well the authors are flawed so that translated easily into our characters being flawed.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Congrats! Best of luck.





B. Magnarella said:


> That looks awesome, CM! And I love the cover.





lincolnjcole said:


> Congrats and best of luck! I love superhero stuff, especially when the hero is flawed.


Thanks, everyone. Now time to focus on the day job.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> Original:
> 
> New:
> 
> ...


Brian and ALawson: Thank you for the feedback!

Brian: That's exactly my problem with the second version and why that version got posted. I feel it loses the zip of the first.

I'm honestly considering going back to the first version, but removing the clothing line and changing "would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas" to "would not know a superhero from some dude in his pajamas" or "thinks a superhero is a really big sandwich"

I think the warning is a little better in the second one though. I don't want someone buying the book for their twelve-year-old and then getting upset because it's not a children's book.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

kdiem said:


> I'm honestly considering going back to the first version, but removing the clothing line and changing "would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas" to "would not know a superhero from some dude in his pajamas" or "thinks a superhero is a really big sandwich"


My money's on "some dude in his pajamas". But that's because I call subs hoagies.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> The Catalyst is finally live.
> 
> My index finger is getting sore from refreshing.
> 
> ...


Congrats! That's a very nice starting rank. 



lincolnjcole said:


> Congrats and best of luck! I love superhero stuff, especially when the hero is flawed.


You're going to like my May 8th release, then. 3 flawed POV heroes. 



kdiem said:


> I'm honestly considering going back to the first version, but removing the clothing line and changing "would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas" to "would not know a superhero from some dude in his pajamas" or "thinks a superhero is a really big sandwich"


The first version will be fine if you change the line about losing clothes. The date line wasn't a huge problem, I would still have bought the book.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Congrats! That's a very nice starting rank.
> 
> You're going to like my May 8th release, then. 3 flawed POV heroes.


Nice! Keep us posted on development and news.


----------



## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> I'm honestly considering going back to the first version, but removing the clothing line and changing "would not know a superhero from that guy down the street getting the mail in his pajamas" to "would not know a superhero from some dude in his pajamas" or "thinks a superhero is a really big sandwich"


I really think that clothing line adds a dimension of quirkiness that you'd lose if you tossed it. Are you sure it can't be clarified instead of deleted? How about something like this:

Not losing her clothes to ///brief explanation of what is causing the loss of clothing/// every day would be a nice bonus.

Example: Not losing her clothes to the Naked Menacer every day would be a nice bonus.

I laughed at the sandwich line.

Hmmm. I think just getting rid of the "down the street" helped. Does this flow better?

Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia wouldn't know a superhero from that neighbor who always checked the mail while wearing his pajamas.



> I think the warning is a little better in the second one though. I don't want someone buying the book for their twelve-year-old and then getting upset because it's not a children's book.


I like "lame sexual innuendo," but I have a couple of problems with it:

1. The "if it were a movie" portion reads really tacked on.
2. Whereas lame sexual innuendo reads funny, necessary violence reads defensive.

How about:

Super is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and as a movie, would be rated "R" for language, lame sexual innuendo, and ///funny adjective/// violence.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

LEBarbant said:


> My money's on "some dude in his pajamas". But that's because I call subs hoagies.


Good point. I'm not certain I want to enter the hoagie/sub/hero wars. 

Congrats on the release of Catalyst! It looks like it's really doing well! I've added it to my TBR list, so you'll get my cash down the line too.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Good point. I'm not certain I want to enter the hoagie/sub/hero wars.
> 
> Congrats on the release of Catalyst! It looks like it's really doing well! I've added it to my TBR list, so you'll get my cash down the line too.


Based on your blurb-in-progress and your Twitter feed, you're hysterical. Your upcoming book is now on my TBR list.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> The Catalyst is finally live.
> 
> My index finger is getting sore from refreshing.
> 
> ...


----------



## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

You all have been so helpful! Thank you.

Darius Brasher: Thank you. Your _Superhero Detective_ is actually next up on my reading list. I added it when I saw _The Missing Exploding Girl_ as a title for the sequel.

C. Rysalis: The clothing line is staying out.



BWFoster78 said:


> I really think that clothing line adds a dimension of quirkiness that you'd lose if you tossed it. Are you sure it can't be clarified instead of deleted? How about something like this:
> 
> Not losing her clothes to ///brief explanation of what is causing the loss of clothing/// every day would be a nice bonus.
> 
> ...


If I had a militant nudist super in the book, Naked Menacer would be an awesome name for them! Now some part of my brain is going to be thinking about that all day. Thanks. 

Zita's clothing issues (actually, most of the clothing issues in the book) are a result of superpower use. So if she uses her powers, the odds are her clothing gets wrecked. "Not losing her clothing whenever she uses her powers would be a nice bonus" might still lead to misinterpretation. I think I'm better staying away from that one line entirely. Since my book is not parody, I think the slight loss will be OK.

The sandwich thing is funny to me, but LE Barbant had a point that not everyone recognizes a hero as a sub/sandwich/hoagie/grinder. The neighbor rewrite implies passing familiarity (to recognize the person as a neighbor). My current inclination is toward "Adrenaline junkie and almost-respectable accountant Zita Garcia wouldn't know a superhero from some dude in his pajamas." Dunno. I'll run it by my chief beta reader tonight and see if he has any suggestions.



BWFoster78 said:


> I like "lame sexual innuendo," but I have a couple of problems with it:
> 
> 1. The "if it were a movie" portion reads really tacked on.
> 2. Whereas lame sexual innuendo reads funny, necessary violence reads defensive.
> ...


I like your rewrite of this line, though now I have to think of a good adjective for the violence and possibly the language. Maybe : 
_Super_ is the first in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and as a movie, would be rated "R" for immoderate language, lame sexual innuendo, and comic book violence."


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

kdiem said:


> You all have been so helpful! Thank you.
> 
> Darius Brasher: Thank you. Your _Superhero Detective_ is actually next up on my reading list. I added it when I saw _The Missing Exploding Girl_ as a title for the sequel.
> 
> ...


Haha! I just read through all of this LOL. The Naked Menacer...reminds me of the old Leslie Neilson movie, The Naked Gun. Hilarious!


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## Dominique Mondesir (Dec 15, 2015)

Well done on getting it out C.M.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Dominique Mondesir said:


> Well done on getting it out C.M.


Thank you, Dominique.


----------



## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Dominique Mondesir said:


> Well done on getting it out C.M.


Yes, congrats, C.M. Raymond!


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Dhiraj M Nair said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> My name is Dhiraj and I have been a lurker here for a long time. I saw this thread and it inspired me to finally sign up and make an account. I am an aspiring writer with more than a few ideas bouncing around in this head of mine. One of which is to do with superheroes. I thought I could pitch it to you all and see what you think. All of you have impressive credentials so it would be great to hear your opinion.
> 
> ...


Hey, Dhiraj! Supervillain protagonist, huh? Eeeeehhhxceeeeellllent!

Welcome to the subgenre of the subgenre! Though the supervill-protagonist books available are increasing as the months grind on. Which is good, it's been underexplored for entirely too long.

Love the ideas you've got here! Best advice I can give... someone on here said that making a likeable villain protagonist is difficult, I'd disagree with that. Focus on the person first and the powers second. Let the readers see how he lives life, makes friends, does mundane stuff, that sort of thing. Don't just focus on the fights, flesh him out and let him show his character in other scenes.

Plot-wise your approach seems solid... he's a kid who really wants to do the right thing, but finds himself pigeonholed by society. So he decides well, to hell with society! It's villain-ing time! And then everything goes horribly wrong...

That about sum it up? Yeah, I'd love to read your book when it's done, if that's so.

And to echo what others have said, I'm interested to see a take on the idea with an Indian character. We need more heroes and villains from all parts of the globe, not just America.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Love the ideas you've got here! Best advice I can give... someone on here said that making a likeable villain protagonist is difficult, I'd disagree with that. Focus on the person first and the powers second. Let the readers see how he lives life, makes friends, does mundane stuff, that sort of thing. Don't just focus on the fights, flesh him out and let him show his character in other scenes.


I agree. Daredevil and Jessica Jones were amazing shows because of their villains. I'd love to have seen the story from their perspective, even if it ends tragically. I know it's not superhero, but most of the great AMC shows focus on "good guys" that are downright terrible. But I love them anyways. I think villain as protagonist can definitely work. But I agree with Andrew that what makes them work is that the villain is believably human (even if they aren't human I guess). 
Good luck!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Yes, congrats, C.M. Raymond!


Thanks, kdiem!


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

Today is National Superhero Day! Good luck promoting your superhero novels.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

There were some posts a few pages ago about keywords. I'm not quite ready to do mine yet, but I have started doing a tiny bit of research. My first step was to go to Amazon, enter books as the category, and then type in "superhero." After superhero, I typed "a," looked to see what words popped up, then moved to "b," etc. Here are the terms that came up that I deemed to be potentially relevant to superhero fiction novels:

academy
action adventure
academic
books
books for (age group)
comics
city
dad
dead
fiction
girls
high
mythology
memoirs
novels
novels for (age group)
origins
powers
questions
rpg
romance
reader
school
squad
science
society
stories
studies
training
theme
universe
women

EDIT: A few more terms that might be useful -

supervillain
mask
team up
good vs evil

Also, when searching for keywords to use, I ask myself if there are anything about the setting or characters that people may search. For example, I'm listing "Dallas" and "Texas" and "urban" as keywords for _Repulsive_ because of where it takes place. My story also has romance elements and is about a teenager coming of age, all good fodder for keywords.

Hope this helps someone out there in their keyword quest 

Brian


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> There were some posts a few pages ago about keywords. I'm not quite ready to do mine yet, but I have started doing a tiny bit of research. My first step was to go to Amazon, enter books as the category, and then type in "superhero." After superhero, I typed "a," looked to see what words popped up, then moved to "b," etc. Here are the terms that came up that I deemed to be potentially relevant to superhero fiction novels:
> 
> academy
> action adventure
> ...


Whoa. Nice work BW.

And Happy National Superheroes Day, everybody.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Whoa. Nice work BW.
> 
> And Happy National Superheroes Day, everybody.
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


Thanks! Sorry I didn't get to this in time to help you prepare for your launch. I'll also update this with other terms that I add once I get around to finalizing the list I'm going to use.

Happy National Superheroes Day to you, as well.

Brian


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## Dhiraj M Nair (Apr 7, 2016)

Happy National Superheroes Day, everyone. I am constantly impressed by how nice this community is.

CM Raymond, congrats on getting the book up. It looks great. And BWFoster78, thanks for the list of keywords, that's incredibly helpful.

Andrew, thank you so much for the warm welcome and advice. I completely agree with you that the character matters more than a lot of other things, and I think that's generally a good rule for writing full stop (haha). You have the premise bang on and its really heartening to see that people are receptive to a change of convention.

LEBarbant, thank you for your words of encouragement and advice. I agree, TV shows - even the best of them - still tend to be a bit too black and white with things. I think the influx of villian-centric stuff will really be interesting.

Also, if anyone has not checked out the short film called Code8, please do so. The way they portray superheroes is super cool.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

All, have a happy National Superheroes Day no matter where you are!

Brian, you are a busy bee over there! Thank you for the list. Since I'm hopefully launching _Super_ next week, it's great timing for me.

Darius Brasher: Read Superhero Detective. Fun! That's one of the better takes on elemental control I've read. I've got books 2 and 3 queued up.

Dhiraj: Sounds interesting! I look forward to hearing about your book's progress.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

First Draft Completed!!

novella

16,946 words

Will go over it for a few days and look for beta readers now.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

geronl said:


> First Draft Completed!!
> 
> novella
> 
> ...


Nice work!


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Darius Brasher: Read Superhero Detective. Fun! That's one of the better takes on elemental control I've read. I've got books 2 and 3 queued up.


Hey that's awesome! I'm glad you enjoyed it. The second and third books are better than the first in my opinion, so I hope you'll like those too. Please let us know when your book is out as I for one definitely want to read it based on your posts. If you don't want to post it publicly, send me a PM if you happen to remember.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

For those of you that have done/considered Bookbub for SH, what category are you submitting for?

https://www.bookbub.com/partners/pricing


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> For those of you that have done/considered Bookbub for SH, what category are you submitting for?
> 
> https://www.bookbub.com/partners/pricing


I've tried Action Adventure in the past. Only submitted once. I'm going to try again once the trilogy is complete. What category are you considering?
MJ


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> I've tried Action Adventure in the past. Only submitted once. I'm going to try again once the trilogy is complete. What category are you considering?
> MJ


I'm really not sure. Bookbub will offer authors/publishers a different category sometimes. Might be interesting to try paranormal suspense. Action and adventure makes some sense. Our has a strong UF vibe, but I'd never categorize it as Fantasy.

Figuring I might as well start taking a crack at it once book two lands in two weeks from tomorrow. Then every month until they file a restraining order.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'd go with UF, personally.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'd go with UF, personally.


I would, but at least at the link I posted above, they don't have UF. That would fit us well as we are a bit of UF/SH hybrid.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Huh. I'm shocked that BB doesn't have an UF category.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> For those of you that have done/considered Bookbub for SH, what category are you submitting for?
> 
> https://www.bookbub.com/partners/pricing


If I remember correctly, I submitted mine in the Science Fiction category


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

When I decided to do the whole indie author thing I never envisioned the job requiring me to spend three hours that I would have rather spent writing on ... wait for it ... searching through cosplay images.

Since we decided to go with a photo-like image for the _Repulsive _cover that features the hero, it means that we can't now really switch to a drawn image or a symbol for the sequel. The first cover was pretty easy. The dude wears a robe that completely covers him. The sequel, however, features a heroine in a skimpy uniform.

First of all, I normally wouldn't even consider putting a scantily clad woman on my cover as it's just not something that I would do. I feel like, in this case, I kind of have to in order to stay true to important plot points (the fact that she has to wear a skimpy uniform is a major source of aggravation to her and leads to the central conflict in the final book) and to replicate the feel of the first cover. So after some initial squeamishness, I managed to, I think, convince myself that it's not really that bad. (Should be interesting to see the reaction I get from the more fundamentalist baptist sections of my family when I post the final cover  )

Then comes the really hard part. Finding the perfect model. Turns out, I'm all kinds of picky perfectionist when it comes to covers, and custom photography can be a bit expensive. I've already devoted a good four to five hours to this situation and haven't come to any resolution.

Sorry for the whining. Just needed a little commiseration from my fellow SH writers.

Thanks.

Brian


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

The hunt for beta readers is launched. (It' only 18k... yes, it went up on rewrites)


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Hey CM, how long did it take for your look inside (for the Catalyst) to show up? Yours seemed to appear really fast. Did you do anything to speed it up?


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Hey CM, how long did it take for your look inside (for the Catalyst) to show up? Yours seemed to appear really fast. Did you do anything to speed it up?


Huh. I've been tracking almost everything. Oddly, I paid no attention to when the look inside showed up. I think it was a day or two after our official release day, which would have been 4-5 days after it was published.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Huh. I've been tracking almost everything. Oddly, I paid no attention to when the look inside showed up. I think it was a day or two after our official release day, which would have been 4-5 days after it was published.


Oh, I see! Official release day a few days AFTER KDP publication day, that's clever. I should do the same next time.

Thanks for the help.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Oh, I see! Official release day a few days AFTER KDP publication day, that's clever. I should do the same next time.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Yeah, it wasn't completely intentional. Hit publish on Saturday night late because we had our launch promo set for Wednesday. I didn't want to risk the book not being up. It had some nice unintended consequences. Street team got some reviews up, a bunch of organic buys... Then reviews. So launch day had a good rank and a handful of reviews.

Look insides and also boughts then populated earlier as well.

Wish I could say it was a clever intension!

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Lee and I are talking pretty seriously about trying to get some serious SH collaboration/promotion going this summer.
> 
> Thinking of:
> 
> ...


I've been reading more and more people on this site who are absolutely extolling the benefits of authors collecting email addresses by giving away an iPad or something. I'd love the email addresses of 1000 to 2000 readers who like SH novels!


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> (Should be interesting to see the reaction I get from the more fundamentalist baptist sections of my family when I post the final cover  )


I've got no advice on the cover, but I can relate to the family dynamics. Another benefit of cowriting is that I blame all the sex and cursing on CM.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> I've got no advice on the cover, but I can relate to the family dynamics. Another benefit of cowriting is that I blame all the sex and cursing on CM.


Ironically, family is turning out to, maybe, be a solution. My wife's cousin is a photography, and she already had a shoot set up for this weekend. They're going to do some cosplay shots for me at the same time. Don't know if they'll work or not, but she's doing that part for me for free.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Brian: 

Your own cosplay shoot? Very cool. Maybe you should have someone wear a cape and stand in a couple positions just to have shots ready in case the next book needs caped guy again. 

As far as family, you never know. When I intimated to my mother that she and my very conservative, ladylike grandmother might not care for my book due to the cursing and sexual innuendo, she answered, "How do you think you got here?" That said, she did tell me I, an adult, am not allowed to write an explicit romance in a separate conversation. We agreed that if I did, I would either use another pen name and not tell her, or wait until she died.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

How come "SUPER" has no mention of a page number. That''s strange.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Amazon's still playing with it. Rank just showed up a couple hours ago.  It's about 110,734 words so about 442 pages long if you use 250 words/page. Thanks for looking at it!

I'm just happy Super's out and about.   Oh yeah, uh, my book is published. Most places. Still wrangling Smashwords.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I saw the rank and didn't consider it might be newly published. I'm dumb sometimes.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Ah, honest mistake, not that I have amazing numbers or anything. 

Honestly, if page count doesn't show up in the next couple days, I may amend my description to include an estimated page count in the last paragraph. iTunes is calling it 472 pages or something, showing Apple has their own algorithms going.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

kdiem said:


> Ah, honest mistake, not that I have amazing numbers or anything.
> 
> Honestly, if page count doesn't show up in the next couple days, I may amend my description to include an estimated page count in the last paragraph. iTunes is calling it 472 pages or something, showing Apple has their own algorithms going.


Do you have a paperback version coming? If so, that will take care of the page count as Amazon uses the paperback page count when it's linked with the Kindle edition.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> Do you have a paperback version coming? If so, that will take care of the page count as Amazon uses the paperback page count when it's linked with the Kindle edition.


Ah, learn some thing new every day! I guess I'll add a word count and estimated page count in a couple days then.

Sadly, paperbacks aren't going to happen unless the series gets SUPER popular... even though I've already had a couple people I know (family) ask me for them. Free ones. I was thinking at book 3, after book 3 falls off the 90 day cliff, creating a three book collection and having THAT monstrosity available in paperback. People might not mind the outrageous prices for a printed book if they're getting three books. Personally, I refuse to pay 15$ for a paperback of one novel.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I am thinking of throwing the novella in KU and forgetting about it until the next one is done.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Chatting on Twitter with MJCaan yesterday. He was asking if we were planning on anything for Free Comic Book Day tomorrow. Great idea. We're going to offer The Catalyst for anybody who signs up for our list.

If anybody else is doing anything, we should cross promote. 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Alright, we're set up. Giving out The Catalyst through a ML signup (via Book Funnel). Here: http://bit.ly/1Tweq3r

Happy #FreeComicBookDay

(And thanks, MJ Caan for the idea)


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Those of you who wanted to know when my book goes live, here it is: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EYXW91Q

I wish I had waited with the 'official' release until the 'look inside' feature is live. 7-10 days is a long time to wait 

Hopefully the lack of a preview doesn't affect my scheduled book blast later today. I need the ranking boost! Unfortunately, some of my existing readers figured out that the book was on preorder last week and already bought it, but days apart, thus... no remarkable spike for Amazon algo love. Oh well.

Edit to update: WAIT, WHAT! The look inside is already active. On the first day  I SO wasn't expecting that.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> Those of you who wanted to know when my book goes live, here it is: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EYXW91Q
> 
> I wish I had waited with the 'official' release until the 'look inside' feature is live. 7-10 days is a long time to wait
> 
> ...


Just bought it. Your cover looks great. Nice work!


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

C. Rysalis said:


> Edit to update: WAIT, WHAT! The look inside is already active. On the first day  I SO wasn't expecting that.


Just browsed your Look Inside. Wow! Now that's how you start a story. 
Good luck with your launch!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> Just bought it. Your cover looks great. Nice work!


Thanks! 



Will C. Brown said:


> Just browsed your Look Inside. Wow! Now that's how you start a story.
> Good luck with your launch!


Thanks. I wish I knew why the rank is going up so slow / slipping so fast. 42 sales yesterday barely carried me to 6K rank. And now I've already lost 1K rank in like, an hour, despite getting KU borrows.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

I just listed the copy edit of _Repulsive _and _The Captain_ as a gig on Upwork. To celebrate, I'm posting my brand new cover (yes, I know it's kind of sad that this is how I'm celebrating such a momentous occasion.  ).

First, though, the story of the story.

A long time ago when I was still outlining _Repulsive_, I came up with the idea for an anthology that would consist of short stories telling the origins of the heroes and villains in my world. I decided to call this anthology _Repulsive Origins_. (I'm really creative with titles that way.)

At some point, I realized that anthologies probably don't sell all that well, but by that time, I'd already written the first one. So what to do with it? Fast forward to now, and I'm planning a massive set of releases in the fall. I thought, "Why not start with the short story to kind of build momentum for the other releases?" Good idea or bad, that's what I'm doing.

I can't help but think, however, that a short story isn't exactly going to pull in the bucks, so I really wanted to skimp on costs as much as possible. I shot a description of the story over to Kerry and asked her to give me whatever she could for my really low budget.

I gotta say that I was really impressed by the result:



It really has a military vibe to it, which really works for the story.

All in all, I can't be more pleased


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

That's an awesome cover!


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> That's an awesome cover!


Thanks!

Kerry Hinds (a fellow kboarder) absolutely freaking rocks. She always delivers above my expectations and is great to work with.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Looking forward to reading your work when it launches! The cover is pretty cool, definitely has that superhero emblem vibe.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Looking forward to reading your work when it launches! The cover is pretty cool, definitely has that superhero emblem vibe.


Glad you like it; when I opened the file, I was blown away.

If I could vent a little bit though - is it ever frustrating to evaluate freelance editors! I love having so many to choose from, but it's almost impossible to find exactly what I want. Argh!

EDIT: Found one!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Military Superhero Emblem for sure.

I want one, I'm jealous


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I have a novella coming out where teen "superheroes" are being drafted into war.

If there is a next book, it will also be a military super hero kind of thing.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> ...
> If I could vent a little bit though - is it ever frustrating to evaluate freelance editors! I love having so many to choose from, but it's almost impossible to find exactly what I want. Argh!


Seriously! I apparently write long books (Super came out to ~110,700 words... after I cut it down from 149,800), so an editor for book 2 (so far titled "Human") will be a real investment. Once you add in my pickiness... Well, it'll be fun. Especially since my ideal editor charges a reasonable rate for copyediting long urban fantasy books in American English with a smattering of Spanish.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Seriously! I apparently write long books (Super came out to ~110,700 words... after I cut it down from 149,800), so an editor for book 2 (so far titled "Human") will be a real investment. Once you add in my pickiness... Well, it'll be fun. Especially since my ideal editor charges a reasonable rate for copyediting long urban fantasy books in American English with a smattering of Spanish.


And after you choose one, there's the long wait of a week or two until you get comments. The whole time you're sayin', "Please like it. Please. Please."

Do you use Upwork? They're going up on their fees in June, so I'm contemplating a move. I haven't even considered any options, though.

BTW, not sure what your budget is, but I got lots of qualified offers at around $.0025/word. I really wanted light copy/proof with a smattering of developmental thrown in. That's a lot harder to find, imo.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

geronl said:


> Military Superhero Emblem for sure.
> 
> I want one, I'm jealous


Kerry came up with it. You should contact her.

http://hyndsstudio.com/


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see whether my superhero short story has been accepted in the anthology I pitched. If it has, great! If not... well, I already have a cover in the works, and one edit at novelette length, put it that way.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> I just listed the copy edit of _Repulsive _and _The Captain_ as a gig on Upwork. To celebrate, I'm posting my brand new cover (yes, I know it's kind of sad that this is how I'm celebrating such a momentous occasion.  ).
> 
> First, though, the story of the story.
> 
> ...


Awesome cover! I like the idea about the anthology as well.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Kerry came up with it. You should contact her.
> 
> http://hyndsstudio.com/


I was thinking of a close-up where the pins or whatever they are called would stand out. A Moon symbol on one side and a silver fire symbol on the other.

I might be able to do a hack job myself just to show whichever artist what I was thinking.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Finally got some alsobot love... the first book that links to mine is The Catalyst. Somehow that makes me really happy. XD

Thanks, everyone who bought / borrowed my book!

KENP reads are shooting through the roof today. That's so reassuring! I'm really glad I decided to enroll in KDP select.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> Finally got some alsobot love... the first book that links to mine is The Catalyst. Somehow that makes me really happy. XD


Woohoo!!! That makes me happy too!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

*I hit publish. *










Now I can do other things.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Congrats! It sounds like you've got your next book lined up already?  

Also, I like the new cover. It draws the eye to the person!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I messed something up. lol.

Now it thinks Josh Hayes did the book.  His name is even in the URL. 

I can't change anything until Amagone is finished doing whatever it does

The novella is released

https://www.amazon.com/Child-Pink-Moon-Floyd-Looney-ebook/dp/B01FKDKYZC

Nel has lived in special institutions for super-powered teens almost her entire life. Now that the freedom of adulthood is on the horizon the world is on the verge of super-powered warfare and she faces being drafted into combat.

Before that, though, she has to face the super-powered stalker that is intent on setting up a life and death situation for her!


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

Hey everybody, I just published book three in my series, "The War of the Supers", and just thought I'd give a little insight on pricing. 

Earlier this month I raised the price of my books by a dollar, just to see if there'd be any resistance. I knew if sales flatlined I'd be okay since I had "War" coming out in just a few weeks. I discovered that sales stayed identical, and page reads increased. I was expecting page reads to increase of course, but the fact that sales stayed exactly the same was surprising (and quite exciting). So when I published "The War of the Supers" I did so at 4.99, and it's doing fantastic.

So, that being said, don't be afraid to try and experiment with your pricing. The one dollar increase hasn't hurt sales at all (for me at least, your mileage may vary.)


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Logan R. said:


> Hey everybody, I just published book three in my series, "The War of the Supers", and just thought I'd give a little insight on pricing.


Congrats on the new book, Logan. Your book The Second Super is what inspired me to start writing superhero fiction. I'm downloading The War of the Supers today.

Regarding your information regarding pricing, I often wonder if we indie authors sometimes shoot ourselves in the foot by pricing so low. The first book in my signature was launched at $2.99 with no paid promotion. It achieved a higher ranking than either of the following books even though each of them was launched at .99. I wonder if some people who aren't already fans see the .99 cent price point and think, "Well this book is so cheap, it must be rubbish," and they move on to the next book. The next book I'm releasing I'll probably still release at .99 cents because I'm planning on paying for some promos, but the one after that I might launch at full price.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

You're an established author though, Logan. I'm not sure I'd get away with a price increase as a fresh newbie.


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

C. Rysalis said:


> You're an established author though, Logan. I'm not sure I'd get away with a price increase as a fresh newbie.


Maybe, but for The Second Super I raised the price to 2.99 almost immediately after it came out whenever I wasn't established. That's when it really took off, not when it was at .99 cents. I would recommend that you raise the price of your book to 2.99 because even if you don't sell as many copies, you'll get a lot more people borrowing, which will send you up the charts.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Logan R. said:


> Maybe, but for The Second Super I raised the price to 2.99 almost immediately after it came out whenever I wasn't established. That's when it really took off, not when it was at .99 cents. I would recommend that you raise the price of your book to 2.99 because even if you don't sell as many copies, you'll get a lot more people borrowing, which will send you up the charts.


I will! After this current four-day promo is over. Might even do 3.99 because the book is fairly long (97K words).


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> You're an established author though, Logan. I'm not sure I'd get away with a price increase as a fresh newbie.


I'm a newbie. My epic fantasy, _Rise of the Mages_, has sold close to 300 copies, all at full price of $4.99.

I'm not sure what a lower price point would have gotten me. Maybe a small percentage of more buys? Maybe. I'd rather keep it full price and advertise it at a discount only when the sequels are released.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> I'm a newbie. My epic fantasy, _Rise of the Mages_, has sold close to 300 copies, all at full price of $4.99.


dang. I can't even give free stories away.


----------



## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Mine is just a novella, I didn't know if I wanted to any add sub-plots or not.

Your book looks very well done, BTW.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I'm a newbie. My epic fantasy, _Rise of the Mages_, has sold close to 300 copies, all at full price of $4.99.
> 
> I'm not sure what a lower price point would have gotten me. Maybe a small percentage of more buys? Maybe. I'd rather keep it full price and advertise it at a discount only when the sequels are released.


Superheroes author here. My novels have been selling pretty well at $4.99 apiece. As long as the perceived quality is there, people won't mind a few bucks more.

I think someone upthread suggested that hardcore supers fans don't mind a slightly higher price point because they shill out for monthly comics. And yeah, modern comics range from 2.99 to 4.99 or more for special editions, so that kind of makes sense.

@Timothy: Nice premise! I wish you luck with it!


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

I'd like to shout out and congratulate you all for your contributions to the superhero genre. Less than six months ago, the top twenty books in the Superhero category were mostly shifter-romance books with bare-chested covers; there were only a smattering of actual superhero books on the first page. Now that is virtually reversed.

Well done!

I'll be joining your ranks when I release my first superhero novel in early September. My current plan is to have the novel, a prequel, and a bonus short ready at launch. My hunger to get in on the action may drive me to publish sooner though!


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, my story was rejected (but with great feedback) from the anthology I submitted to. So now I just need to expand it a tad to make it a decent short novella kind of length, and then I'll be ready to jump into this exciting new genre adventure!


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Logan R. said:


> Hey everybody, I just published book three in my series, "The War of the Supers", and just thought I'd give a little insight on pricing.
> 
> Earlier this month I raised the price of my books by a dollar, just to see if there'd be any resistance. I knew if sales flatlined I'd be okay since I had "War" coming out in just a few weeks. I discovered that sales stayed identical, and page reads increased. I was expecting page reads to increase of course, but the fact that sales stayed exactly the same was surprising (and quite exciting). So when I published "The War of the Supers" I did so at 4.99, and it's doing fantastic.
> 
> So, that being said, don't be afraid to try and experiment with your pricing. The one dollar increase hasn't hurt sales at all (for me at least, your mileage may vary.)


I priced _Sensation_ at $3.99 right out the gate when I released it 3 years ago and it sold like hotcakes, hitting #1 in multiple categories. I've priced everything else in that series (except for a short story) at $4.99. Marion Harmon has been pricing his stuff at $7.99 for years and hasn't had to take a place in the soup lines - far from it, from what I can tell.

When it came to pricing, I looked long and hard at what I considered to be appropriate. (In fact, one of my early blog posts was on the subject of book prices and comparative value, and how I came to view $3.99 as a reasonable price - even for an unknown writer: http://kevinhardman.blogspot.com/2013/05/book-prices-and-comparative-value.html) From my point of view, writers of superhero prose have something of an advantage in this arena, because - as I noted in my blog post - we already have a good barometer for what our audience will buy: comic books. If readers are willing to pay $3.99 a month for a DC or Marvel comic, it's likely that they will pay the same for superhero prose, provided it delivers the same or better entertainment value.

Bottom line, I think that - for the superhero genre - price is less of of a factor when it comes to purchasing, because readers are already desensitized to prices in a certain range. (That, of course, doesn't mean that you can just gouge them.) In short, we already have an idea of the fiscal temperament of our market; we just have to deliver the goods - ie, a well-written, highly entertaining book. Do that, and the world is your oyster.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

I think this is a double edged sword.  The whole genre in general has suffered from saturation/overdoing it for the last few years.  It needs something original, whether that's movies, comics, books, or short stories.  I think they can all play off of one another even if the fan base is slightly different or doesn't overlap as much as we would hope.  Recent superhero movies have obviously done very well financially, but the common complaint is that they lack substance and creativity.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Nicksm28 said:


> I think this is a double edged sword. The whole genre in general has suffered from saturation/overdoing it for the last few years. It needs something original, whether that's movies, comics, books, or short stories. I think they can all play off of one another even if the fan base is slightly different or doesn't overlap as much as we would hope. Recent superhero movies have obviously done very well financially, but the common complaint is that they lack substance and creativity.


In my story-verse, all of the super-powers belong to some people born within 25 months of a "Pink Moon Event" and now they approach adulthood only to be drafted by their respective countries as a super-powered world war heats up. In my novella the main character crosses the threshold (her powers 'blossomed' -going from weak to strong). If I write a novel-length follow-up to the novella, it will be about that war, I don't think it will end too well for some of my characters either. This ain't Marvel, these super-powered teenagers can die.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

That's a really interesting premise.  Makes me wonder if they will realize their superpowers and resist the draft, or go along with it.  Will have to check it out!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

My story / setting are highly original, but we'll see whether superhero readers are going to accept something so different. SO far I'm not selling like hotcakes yet.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Nicksm28 said:


> I think this is a double edged sword. The whole genre in general has suffered from saturation/overdoing it for the last few years. It needs something original, whether that's movies, comics, books, or short stories. I think they can all play off of one another even if the fan base is slightly different or doesn't overlap as much as we would hope. Recent superhero movies have obviously done very well financially, but the common complaint is that they lack substance and creativity.


But those complaints usually come from people who aren't superhero fans to begin with and they tend to come from a very vocal minority. The opinion of the vast majority of superhero fans (and the average movie-goer) is that the movies are wonderful. It's like the non-romance fans who complain about how romances always have HEA/HFN endings, saying it's uncreative or unoriginal. The target audience certainly doesn't agree with that sentiment.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> But those complaints usually come from people who aren't superhero fans to begin with and they tend to come from a very vocal minority. The opinion of the vast majority of superhero fans (and the average movie-goer) is that the movies are wonderful.


Good point. I try to do something new and different because I want to write superhero fiction for people who don't read superhero fiction - maybe I can introduce some new people to the genre. Or not, but I'm trying anyway.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> Good point. I try to do something new and different because I want to write superhero fiction for people who don't read superhero fiction - maybe I can introduce some new people to the genre. Or not, but I'm trying anyway.


Superhero is such a niche genre at this point (and discoverability in it is so terribly broken, what with Amazon's insistence that UF and PR books also counts as superhero books) that it doesn't really matter what you want to do with it. My series is more straight-up superhero stuff that you'd find in comics from the 70s-80s (or in the Marvel movies and DC TV shows) and it's basically my love letter to those kinds of stories.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> But those complaints usually come from people who aren't superhero fans to begin with and they tend to come from a very vocal minority. The opinion of the vast majority of superhero fans (and the average movie-goer) is that the movies are wonderful. It's like the non-romance fans who complain about how romances always have HEA/HFN endings, saying it's uncreative or unoriginal. The target audience certainly doesn't agree with that sentiment.


I'd concur. The recent superhero movie renaissance has done nothing but good for the genre.

And now that Deadpool's shown that an "R" rating isn't the kiss of death for it, I expect a lot of nifty things to come over the next five years or so...


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

AndrewSeiple said:


> And now that Deadpool's shown that an "R" rating isn't the kiss of death for it, I expect a lot of nifty things to come over the next five years or so...


Spawn II?


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

Isn't the allure of that Renaissance starting to fade now?


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Box office says no. Among critics, sure, but it's up to you how much shrift you give critics.

EDIT: No, wait, shrift is the wrong word. Mmm... how much faith you put in critics as barometers of a society's preferences. Yes, that works.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Nicksm28 said:


> Isn't the allure of that Renaissance starting to fade now?


Civil War just became the fourth Marvel film to cross a billion dollars and has been claimed by many fans and critics to be Marvel's best film yet. Daredevil and Jessica Jones are two of Netflix's most popular shows, so much that they greenlit a fifth Marvel series and are rumored to be looking at three additional shows. All the existing superhero TV shows have gotten new season orders for fall 2016.

So no, the luster isn't fading at all. If anything, it's shining brighter than ever. Especially with audiences rejecting the "we're too mature for superheroes" attitude of pretentious directors like Zack Snyder.

Even if it were fading, it would hardly be an argument for the similar thing to happen in books. Superhero movies can't afford to become a niche, outside-the-mainstream genre because they're expensive to make. But superhero books and comics don't have that problem.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Heroes was super awesome back then... I wish there were more original superhero movies / series out there, without a Marvel / DC license. Heroes Reborn was a disappointment, though. Katana Girl killed it for me.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

I think the Netflix shows are great news for superhero novelists. They demonstrate that people are willing to devote serious amount of time to watch a plot unfold. The problem with the recent movies (although I still love them) is that they have to crunch an expansive plot line into a 3 hour story. The age of ultron, the civil war...these things could have taken longer to tell. Movies don't have that luxury but we do!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Raising the price doesn't work for me so far... 0 sales since I priced at 3.99 instead of the 99 cent promo price.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

Did you do a 5 day free promo?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Nicksm28 said:


> Did you do a 5 day free promo?


Do you mean me? No, it was 4 days at 99 cents. I'm not doing free until I have more books in the series.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

2.99 seems to be working well for The Catalyst. I think it has helped our numbers. C. Rysalis I really like your book so far. I'm surprised the jump in price has limited your sales. It's definitely worth the higher price tag.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

Is there any truth to the idea that pricing your book cheaply actually drives away potential readers?  For example, people see a book that they would expect to be priced higher due to the length, so they assume its of poor quality?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> 2.99 seems to be working well for The Catalyst. I think it has helped our numbers. C. Rysalis I really like your book so far. I'm surprised the jump in price has limited your sales. It's definitely worth the higher price tag.


Glad to hear you like it! I hope you'll read the new one in August, too - it contains the guest post I did on Drew Hayes' blog. 



Nicksm28 said:


> Is there any truth to the idea that pricing your book cheaply actually drives away potential readers? For example, people see a book that they would expect to be priced higher due to the length, so they assume its of poor quality?


I think it depends on the genre and audience. Younger readers will appreciate a lower price.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Nicksm28 said:


> Is there any truth to the idea that pricing your book cheaply actually drives away potential readers? For example, people see a book that they would expect to be priced higher due to the length, so they assume its of poor quality?


I believe that - if you view readers as consumers - there is at some level a perceived correlation between price and value. For instance, which car would you be more inclined to buy: a Honda for $5k or a Yugo for $2K? (Assume for this hypo that you know nothing about the vehicles other than brand and price.) Basically, while I wouldn't say that cheap prices drive readers away (plenty of people have done great pricing their books at 99 cents), I'm sure some readers may be taking that as a cue as to how an author values his own work.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

C. Rysalis said:


> Raising the price doesn't work for me so far... 0 sales since I priced at 3.99 instead of the 99 cent promo price.


How long did you leave it at $3.99? Personally, I'd leave it at a higher price and continue testing the waters for a while. I think in the practice of law, there's an old adage about how you have to manage client expectations (eg, you never promise a "win" at trial, no matter how good your case looks). Likewise, I think you have to manage reader expectations, and that includes in regards to price. If the book has always been 99 cents, there's going to be resistance to a sudden price jump to $3.99; a gradual increase - to $1.99, then $2.99, etc. - might be better received. Regardless, I think you have to give the market time to adequately assess whether you've placed an appropriate value on your work.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## JosiahUpton (May 18, 2016)

I've written three superhero-ish YA short stories (available for free on my blog), in a series called 16 & Strange. Each story features a teen with a "reject" super power (a boy that can stop time once a day for about 20 minutes, but is completely paralyzed for the rest of the day. A girl who can experience the life of dead animals when she touches their skin, but it doesn't work on humans), coming to grips with or learning something new about said power, and an underlying issue that many everyday teens deal with today.

I plan to write more of these short stories when taking breaks from my novels, and perhaps bring these underdogs together in a novel of their own, Avengers-style. I might also put the shorts together in a collection, and put it up on Amazon. With the mainstream popularity of superheroes in film and television, hopefully this literary genre will become more accessible and appropriately defined.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1. It's too early to tell if that's a trend or just a coincidence but for those of you with debut novels, keep up the good work. Maybe a sequel will help. Book 3 is set to come out in a month or so; I'm crossing my fingers that the third installment might blow it wide open but we'll see. 
Still no movie deal...


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I've finally found my plot for my superhero sequel. I may even hold off on releasing the first one, and try for a double whammy.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

LEBarbant said:


> So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1. It's too early to tell if that's a trend or just a coincidence but for those of you with debut novels, keep up the good work. Maybe a sequel will help. Book 3 is set to come out in a month or so; I'm crossing my fingers that the third installment might blow it wide open but we'll see.
> Still no movie deal...


Congrats!! Go Go GO!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

LEBarbant said:


> So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1. It's too early to tell if that's a trend or just a coincidence but for those of you with debut novels, keep up the good work. Maybe a sequel will help. Book 3 is set to come out in a month or so; I'm crossing my fingers that the third installment might blow it wide open but we'll see.
> Still no movie deal...


Nice! Keep it up, you two!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

LEBarbant said:


> So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1. It's too early to tell if that's a trend or just a coincidence but for those of you with debut novels, keep up the good work. Maybe a sequel will help. Book 3 is set to come out in a month or so; I'm crossing my fingers that the third installment might blow it wide open but we'll see.
> Still no movie deal...


Congrats to both of you!

Wait, was a movie deal an option? Did I miss a check box?  Just kidding, not certain I could give up that much control.



alawston said:


> I've finally found my plot for my superhero sequel. I may even hold off on releasing the first one, and try for a double whammy.


Sorry the contest didn't take your first one, but glad you're already revving on a second! Did you make those changes to the first one you mentioned? Double whammy sounds nice. Do you think there will be a third or will you stop at 2 in your series? I would have released multiples at once if I didn't need some kind of income to justify spending more on book 2.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

For writers of superhero books/stories here, where do you get your inspiration?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Nicksm28 said:


> For writers of superhero books/stories here, where do you get your inspiration?


By far my biggest inspiration was Worm, the web series by Wildbow.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

LEBarbant said:


> So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1.


This mirrors my experience in that a new release tends to boost sales of earlier books in the series. Of course, being in KU now, book sales don't have the same relevance that they once did.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

LEBarbant said:


> So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1. It's too early to tell if that's a trend or just a coincidence but for those of you with debut novels, keep up the good work. Maybe a sequel will help. Book 3 is set to come out in a month or so; I'm crossing my fingers that the third installment might blow it wide open but we'll see.
> Still no movie deal...


Congrats! Keep it up.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Nicksm28 said:


> For writers of superhero books/stories here, where do you get your inspiration?


Chris Claremont's X-Men (his first run, not...whatever that thing was when he came back to the titles in 2000), Grant Morrison's JLA, and Kurt Busiek's Avengers are my holy trinity.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

LEBarbant said:


> So CM and I released book 2 in our series last week (http://amzn.to/1U6Xel4) and since then we've had some of our best sales days ever for book 1. It's too early to tell if that's a trend or just a coincidence but for those of you with debut novels, keep up the good work. Maybe a sequel will help. Book 3 is set to come out in a month or so; I'm crossing my fingers that the third installment might blow it wide open but we'll see.
> Still no movie deal...


Yeah, book 2 did wonders for my series, too. Truly, there's no marketing like a sequel. 

@Nicksm28: I'll second Wildbow's Worm as a major inspiration, though Watchmen and the Dark Knight Returns kind of got there first for me. There's a lot of modern day comics, too... Rat Queens, Suicide Squad, Garth Ennis' run on the Punisher, Sinister Six, and a few more. Astro City though, that was one of the really big ones... I'm kind of building up a universe in the same style, story by story and character by character. Oh, and I can't forget Richard Roberts! His "Please Don't Tell My Parents I'm a Supervillain" book is just a fun romp! It actually gave me the confidence to go ahead and write with a supervillain protagonist.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

What is it about Worm specifically?  Art, style?  Both?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Nicksm28 said:


> What is it about Worm specifically? Art, style? Both?


https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18713259-worm to find out why so many people rave about it (1700+ ratings on Goodreads and it's not even a book...)

The link to the actual web serial is in there somewhere.

I think the biggest compliment I ever got from a reader was that I'm their favorite author along with Wildbow. <3


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Nicksm28 said:


> What is it about Worm specifically? Art, style? Both?


It's hard to put a finger on any one thing. The darn thing is HUGE, for one. An archive crawl can take a good long while, depending on your reading speed. Lots of memorable characters, an environment where almost anyone can die at any time, gritty deconstruction, some really detailed world-building, a lot of interesting non-standard powers, and a main character that a lot of nerdy, bully-survivors can empathize with.

Oh, and the fact that he gave carte blanche to fanfic authors to have at his story, so long as respect was paid and proper acknowledgement was given was a big plus. Lots of fanfic out there, some of it's VERY good. It helps keep the story fresh and draw in more people to read it, I think.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Nicksm28 said:


> For writers of superhero books/stories here, where do you get your inspiration?


I get my inspiration from a lifetime of reading and loving comics and graphic novels. I loved them so much my grade school friend and I started our own comic, with him as the artist and me as the writer. We only produced two issues because we quickly discovered that producing a comic is hard work. In my latest work in progress, some of the characters I created for that comic make an appearance.

Honestly, I would write exclusively about superheroes if my book sales allowed me to. That has not happened yet. But, it could happen tomorrow. *fingers crossed*


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

Hi MJ Caan and everyone, I'm so glad to have come across this thread! I'm in on cross-promoting and even joint promotions. I first thought of a black girl superhero in 2007. I published the origin story in 2013, and I will release the second and third books in a few weeks. My first book did not sell because I had no clue about any of the categories, keywords, promoting or anything. I will try some different categories for each of the books in a few weeks. I've been researching the superhero categories, and it is definitely a promising market. My series is the Dynamo series and I will be aiming to break barriers with girls of color taking on their opponents.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

AndrewSeiple said:


> It's hard to put a finger on any one thing. The darn thing is HUGE, for one. An archive crawl can take a good long while, depending on your reading speed. Lots of memorable characters, an environment where almost anyone can die at any time, gritty deconstruction, some really detailed world-building, a lot of interesting non-standard powers, and a main character that a lot of nerdy, bully-survivors can empathize with.
> 
> Oh, and the fact that he gave carte blanche to fanfic authors to have at his story, so long as respect was paid and proper acknowledgement was given was a big plus. Lots of fanfic out there, some of it's VERY good. It helps keep the story fresh and draw in more people to read it, I think.


Andrew said it better than I could in my sleepy 10-minutes-to-bed daze. 

Trying to emulate the gritty deconstruction feel of Worm without actually copying Worm had a HUGE impact on my writing - also, Wildbow's feedback on my first few chapters. For instance, I didn't want to steal the concept of endbringers, so I made some powered individuals get seemingly random (but are they really?) power surges. I follow the arc / interlude structure, but elevated the setting to a global scale (rather than just the USA) with 3 different POVs. I also deconstruct harder than Worm did - heroes / villains actually go for the kill and in the age of mass media with many transitions happening in public, secret identities are an illusion. Costumes serve a different purpose.

Unfortunately, that massive scale requires a long build-up. I have to get book 2 out ASAP to really get the story going.  The only person who five-starred me on GR was an ARC reader who has already read book 2.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Can you all give me some thoughts/help on the blurb for my upcoming book? It's for Hunted, the fourth in my Superhero Detective series, the books in my signature.

Here is the draft blurb:

*Someone has killed Earth's most powerful and beloved superhero, and everyone thinks that someone is me.

Thing is, I--Truman Lord, licensed superhero and private detective--haven't killed anybody. Well, not lately. I certainly did not kill one of the good guys, let alone THE good guy, the Hero all of us licensed Heroes look up to. That does not change the fact I'm on the run from the cops, other Heroes, and every two bit supervillain looking to make a name for himself by taking me out.

While being hunted down by everybody and his superpowered brother, I have to try to do three things: find the real killer, bring him to justice, and clear my own name. No, make that four things: keep from getting my head blown off. Where would I keep my hat?

All in a day's work for a dashing private eye and licensed superhero, you say? Yeah right. Maybe if I manage to get out of this mess, I'll tackle world peace.*

Any thoughts you all might have would be much appreciated! Thanks!


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

Darius Brasher said:


> Can you all give me some thoughts/help on the blurb for my upcoming book? It's for Hunted, the fourth in my Superhero Detective series, the books in my signature.
> 
> Here is the draft blurb:
> 
> ...


Hi Darius, this sounds like a wonderful, action-packed page turner! Offering up one possibility about the narration: rather than have the first-person detective explain to readers his "stream of conscious" thoughts, maybe he can detail the scenario, paint a picture of his circumstances and have readers feel the sense of urgency from the elaborate description? For example:

Your current sentence: _That does not change the fact I'm on the run from the cops, other Heroes, and every two bit supervillain looking to make a name for himself by taking me out._

Possibility: As I grab my pre-packed, emergency bag of first aid bandages, Snickers and bullets, from the top of the heater, the red, blue and white lights flash across my brick wall. Down the street, turning the corner of my block, cop cars scream for me. I force up my creaky, overpainted window. And damn. A shadow leaps from rooftop to rooftop, the green streak on black leather, smiling at me in streetlights. Uglyface wants to take me down first. Should I stay and explain to them all that I didn't kill the city's most beloved superhero? The lights flicker out. I hear the electricity shut down throughout my building. I grab my satchel. It'll be a long night.

Feel free to steal or tell me that sucks! I hope all goes well for you! I'm happy help cross-promote!


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

shumphrey08 said:


> Possibility: As I grab my pre-packed, emergency bag of first aid bandages, Snickers and bullets, from the top of the heater, the red, blue and white lights flash across my brick wall. Down the street, turning the corner of my block, cop cars scream for me. I force up my creaky, overpainted window. And damn. A shadow leaps from rooftop to rooftop, the green streak on black leather, smiling at me in streetlights. Uglyface wants to take me down first. Should I stay and explain to them all that I didn't kill the city's most beloved superhero? The lights flicker out. I hear the electricity shut down throughout my building. I grab my satchel. It'll be a long night.


Thanks so much for the feedback Shumphrey08. It's funny you should come up with the idea that the hero grabs a pre-packed emergency bag as that is exactly what he does in my novel when the police come banging on his door. I think your paragraph is more evocative of the kind of action in my book than my original line, so I'm going to play around with it some. Thanks again!

Anyone else have any thoughts?


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

shumphrey08 said:


> Hi MJ Caan and everyone, I'm so glad to have come across this thread! I'm in on cross-promoting and even joint promotions. I first thought of a black girl superhero in 2007. I published the origin story in 2013, and I will release the second and third books in a few weeks. My first book did not sell because I had no clue about any of the categories, keywords, promoting or anything. I will try some different categories for each of the books in a few weeks. I've been researching the superhero categories, and it is definitely a promising market. My series is the Dynamo series and I will be aiming to break barriers with girls of color taking on their opponents.


Definitely get your research in (but not too much). Female heroes of color are definitely under-represented in the genre, so I'm happy to see that. Just make sure you're delivering a solid superhero story and you should do fine.
Welcome to the forum/thread! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your series.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> Definitely get your research in (but not too much). Female heroes of color are definitely under-represented in the genre, so I'm happy to see that. Just make sure you're delivering a solid superhero story and you should do fine.
> Welcome to the forum/thread! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your series.


Amen.

Superheores are traditionally so WASPy. Though there has been some norm breaking of late.

In SCH we have a secular(ish) Jewish woman, a black chemist, and a British African art historian (shhh! that has only been hinted at...).

Love the ideas. Keep after it. Not all SHs are over-educated, white, middle-class, males...


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'd love to see a protagonist of color with a white sidekick.


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

Will C. Brown said:


> Definitely get your research in (but not too much). Female heroes of color are definitely under-represented in the genre, so I'm happy to see that. Just make sure you're delivering a solid superhero story and you should do fine.
> Welcome to the forum/thread! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your series.


Thanks! And I appreciate the advice, because lol, I do research too much. I'm looking forward to learning from, and supporting other writers on here.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Amen.
> 
> Superheores are traditionally so WASPy. Though there has been some norm breaking of late.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I made a conscious decision with Vanguard to include a diverse cast. The team is two white men, one white teenage girl, a black woman (who's one of the most powerful members of the team), an Asian man, a black man, and a robot.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

My universe's premiere vampire hunter, demon banisher, and immortal alchemist is the Last Janissary, a Turkish Christian. He's short, brown, and resigned to the fact that most Americans don't know there's anyone but Muslims in the middle east.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Will C. Brown said:


> Definitely get your research in (but not too much). Female heroes of color are definitely under-represented in the genre, so I'm happy to see that. Just make sure you're delivering a solid superhero story and you should do fine.
> Welcome to the forum/thread! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your series.


In addition to Will Brown's good advice, start shopping for your cover early. Find someone who does decent covers of people with color or pick a style that doesn't feature a character. My main character is a Latina of primarily indio blood and based on the mock-ups, the cover artist had difficulties finding my requested non-sexy action pose for a woman of color.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

In my book, A Spark Ignites,  the main superhero is actually a short Jewish guy. While it isn't explicitly written, it can be implied that his family is at least somewhat religious, something you rarely see among Jewish superheroes. He's also fairly short, although that didn't come across in the cover. My next book, A Spark Extinguished,  features an Asian American superhero who's given nearly if not just as much pages as Spark.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

AndrewSeiple said:


> My universe's premiere vampire hunter, demon banisher, and immortal alchemist is the Last Janissary, a Turkish Christian. He's short, brown, and resigned to the fact that most Americans don't know there's anyone but Muslims in the middle east.


<3



kdiem said:


> My main character is a Latina of primarily indio blood and based on the mock-ups, the cover artist had difficulties finding my requested non-sexy action pose for a woman of color.


Oh, I know how difficult that is! I could not for the life of me find a stock image of an Asian teenage girl who doesn't do make-up or dress sexy. The first cover artist I wanted to work with gave up. In the end I went with Claudia Mc Kinney because she works with a photographer - we did a cast + photoshoot to get the model I needed. She NAILED that character's standard facial expression. XD


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> Oh, I know how difficult that is! I could not for the life of me find a stock image of an Asian teenage girl who doesn't do make-up or dress sexy. The first cover artist I wanted to work with gave up. In the end I went with Claudia Mc Kinney because she works with a photographer - we did a cast + photoshoot to get the model I needed. She NAILED that character's standard facial expression. XD


Trying to find stock photos of an Asian woman who isn't sexed up is damn-near impossible. An upcoming series I'm doing is focused on a female Japanese PI. I gave up on the idea of putting her on the covers because I couldn't find consisted images that would work for multiple books, unless I just kept using the same image every time.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

I read in another thread that the superhero genre is hard to nail down as far as tropes go. That got me thinking, "What do I like about the superhero genre?"

Great question. I'm glad I asked 

_Confessions of a D-List Supervillian_ introduced me to the genre and remains my favorite. The only other book that I've read that I rank as truly exceptional is _Wearing the Cape_.

I'm not sure that the two have much in common. _Confessions _features a male underdog who achieves greatness and wins the heart of a girl. _Wearing _features a strong female and only the smallest of romantic subplots. Truthfully, neither one of them is probably going to win an award for best writing from a craft standpoint. _Confessions _has a touch of snarky humor; _Wearing_, not so much.

The only things that they both have in common are 1) epic superhero battles and b) strong character voice.

Hmmm. Looking back over my book (I just finished picking up the copy editor's comments; yay me!), I think those were the two things I tried hardest to incorporate.

What do the rest of you think are the key elements that readers in the genre want?

Thanks.

Brian


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

AndrewSeiple said:


> the fact that most Americans don't know there's anyone but Muslims in the middle east.


right, none of us have ever heard of Israel either...


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> I read in another thread that the superhero genre is hard to nail down as far as tropes go. That got me thinking, "What do I like about the superhero genre?"
> 
> Great question. I'm glad I asked
> 
> ...


I think those two are key. 
I wonder how important it is for the author to come up with super-powers are as well. I just finished "Calamity", book two in Brandon Sanderson's Reckoners trilogy. His "epics" have well-defined and imaginative abilities. They're not simply super-strong and super-fast. They're really well thought out.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> I think those two are key.
> I wonder how important it is for the author to come up with super-powers are as well. I just finished "Calamity", book two in Brandon Sanderson's Reckoners trilogy. His "epics" have well-defined and imaginative abilities. They're not simply super-strong and super-fast. They're really well thought out.


I haven't read Reckoners (I've read a lot of Sanderson's fantasy stuff and decided he's just not for me). I know that his magic system in Mistborn was very original and well thought out, though.

I just don't know how important originality is. Do fantasy readers really care how unique your magic system is or do they care about the story and the characters a lot more? Sure, a cool magic system helps, but I think the best magic system in the world doesn't help you if they don't like your story and characters. On the other hand, I think they'll like your book if you have a blah system if they like the story and characters.

It seems like an 80/20 thing to me. If you happen to come up with something really cool, it helps. I'm not sure it's worth stressing about, though.


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## Nick Marsden (Jan 28, 2015)

I just read Write to Market by Chris Fox and decided to write a superhero novel. I have been flirting with the idea for a while now anyway. For tropes, I think a lot of superhero stories not only feature kick-ass fight scenes and strong character voice, but there are a few others that might fit in well:

1. Shadowy Government organization - They either created the superheroes or are looking to use them for some nefarious purpose (or both).
2. Secret Identity - This goes for comics/tv/novels all. Usually it's a misguided attempt to protect those they love, but of course the villain always figures it out.
3. Wise Mentor - Shared with fantasy, there is almost always someone who teaches the superhero how to be a superhero, even if it's tangential or accidental.

In a novel, there must be a character arc. You can't copy comics. Novel reading and comicbook reading are two different things. So you can have your superhero, but that character must have and fix a flaw by the end of the book. The book should have a happy ending or at least a neutral ending. In a superhero book, I wouldn't end it on tragedy. People look to superhero fantasies for escapism. You don't want to bum them out. You want the hero to win. Even if it's an anti-hero book, you want them to have some level of redemption by the end of the book (Think the movie Hancock -- One of the most underrated superhero movies EVER).

I personally wouldn't write a superhero book as a serial with cliffhangers and hanging plot threads. Series is fine, but there should be some sort of resolution by the end of each book (a villain is defeated even if there is a bigger one around the corner, or some character flaw is fixed, even if it's something that might resurface later, etc.). Again, comics are not novels. Superhero stories are just fantasy stories. Dresden Files is a superhero series for example. It's other things as well, but Dresden is a superhero in the modern world, no matter how you look at it. If I were to model my superhero book after a successful superhero book, it might be Dresden. I recently cruised through Never Hero by T Ellery Hodges. I couldn't stop reading that and I'm waiting patiently (to some degree) for the sequel (Lookin' at you, Hodges).  That is a book that is both a perfect representation of the genre and is an instruction manual on writing a superhero book. It felt like the first Scream movie must have for Horror screenwriters.

I think there are not enough superhero books to go around yet. As someone mentioned. The category in Amazon is full of non-superhero books. Let's all write awesome hero books and publish them!! I want to read more!!!!!!


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

geronl said:


> right, none of us have ever heard of Israel either...


Heh. Wanna know something funny? I almost put in a disclaimer about Israelis in the original statement. But I was tired enough that I couldn't find a way to do that and keep the line punchy at the same time. At then end I just shrugged and figured "eh, people will know what I mean."

Pretty sure this isn't the last time I'll be wrong.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Nick Marsden said:


> I personally wouldn't write a superhero book as a serial with cliffhangers and hanging plot threads. Series is fine, but there should be some sort of resolution by the end of each book (a villain is defeated even if there is a bigger one around the corner, or some character flaw is fixed, even if it's something that might resurface later, etc.).


Serials do have this. Most serials are constructed like TV shows, with individual episodes and an overarching season. Each season of my serial has a resolution by the end of the season.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> It seems like an 80/20 thing to me. If you happen to come up with something really cool, it helps. I'm not sure it's worth stressing about, though.


Yeah, the story, plot, and character are for more important. A nicely constructed superpower system is a nice touch though.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Since we talked about this up-thread. An author received a takedown notice from Marvel and DC for his book with "superhero" in the title. He fought it and won...two years later:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/25/businessman-wins-battle-against-marvel-and-dc-comics-to-use-supe/


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> I haven't read Reckoners


I read the first two, I was pleasantly surprised.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Will C. Brown said:


> Since we talked about this up-thread. An author received a takedown notice from Marvel and DC for his book with "superhero" in the title. He fought it and won...two years later:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/25/businessman-wins-battle-against-marvel-and-dc-comics-to-use-supe/


I don't know how the legal system works in the UK, but the courts are ridiculously friendly to corporate interests here in the States. If he had to fight in the States, I bet he would have been defeated.

My subtitle uses superhero in it. If I get a cease and desist from Marvel/DC, I can easily remove it. Although I'll definitely talk to anyone who will listen about how Marvel/DC felt threatened by an indie author who barely makes $100 a month of his books that they had to bully him into removing a word from a book's subtitle.


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> <3
> 
> Oh, I know how difficult that is! I could not for the life of me find a stock image of an Asian teenage girl who doesn't do make-up or dress sexy. The first cover artist I wanted to work with gave up. In the end I went with Claudia Mc Kinney because she works with a photographer - we did a cast + photoshoot to get the model I needed. She NAILED that character's standard facial expression. XD


Hey C. Rysalis, I used Claudia McKinney for my first book cover! It was on the pricey side, but her work is AHmazing! Since there aren't that many black girl stock images that fit my writing, I had my own photo shoot and sent her the shots. Diverse women that are non-stereotyped are indeed rare finds.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Nick Marsden said:


> I just read Write to Market by Chris Fox and decided to write a superhero novel. I have been flirting with the idea for a while now anyway. For tropes, I think a lot of superhero stories not only feature kick-ass fight scenes and strong character voice, but there are a few others that might fit in well:
> 
> 1. Shadowy Government organization - They either created the superheroes or are looking to use them for some nefarious purpose (or both).
> 2. Secret Identity - This goes for comics/tv/novels all. Usually it's a misguided attempt to protect those they love, but of course the villain always figures it out.
> ...


I agree! We need more. I have also been trying to figure out the tropes. After two books, I am still not sure if I hit them. I will be running promos after book 3 is out. It's hard because it's not really a defined genre yet.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Finally found my cover model for _Attractive_. Paid $100 for the rights to use the image.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> 1. Shadowy Government organization - They either created the superheroes or are looking to use them for some nefarious purpose (or both).
> 2. Secret Identity - This goes for comics/tv/novels all. Usually it's a misguided attempt to protect those they love, but of course the villain always figures it out.
> 3. Wise Mentor - Shared with fantasy, there is almost always someone who teaches the superhero how to be a superhero, even if it's tangential or accidental.


Nick,

Good call. I've used all three of these in one form or another and never even thought twice about them. I even ended up killing the mentor (okay, left her in a coma, but same difference).

Thanks.

Brian


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I don't know how the legal system works in the UK, but the courts are ridiculously friendly to corporate interests here in the States. If he had to fight in the States, I bet he would have been defeated.
> 
> My subtitle uses superhero in it. If I get a cease and desist from Marvel/DC, I can easily remove it. Although I'll definitely talk to anyone who will listen about how Marvel/DC felt threatened by an indie author who barely makes $100 a month of his books that they had to bully him into removing a word from a book's subtitle.


Aw, hell. I did read that Marvel/DC will send a cease and desist letter for the word "superhero". Too bad. I'm setting up my book for pre-order right now, and I'm using the word superhero. Will have to get creative.


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## ShannonHumphrey (May 9, 2016)

I've been hearing a lot about The Reckoners. I may check that out this weekend.


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## IncorporealGhost (Nov 20, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> I think those two are key.
> I wonder how important it is for the author to come up with super-powers are as well. I just finished "Calamity", book two in Brandon Sanderson's Reckoners trilogy. His "epics" have well-defined and imaginative abilities. They're not simply super-strong and super-fast. They're really well thought out.


It's important to me, personally, as a reader to see a well thought out power. The powers and how they interact are a large reason why I gravitate to this genre again and again. The more unique the power (or original in application), the better. My favorite trope is "reject" superpowers that turn out to be useful when the hero puts their mind to it. In reference to Brandon Sanderson's brand of "well-defined" powers, I found that it was the weaknesses that really sold the powers for me. Some of his weaknesses were hokey, but the ones that he used as an alternate way to define the power theme were ultimately SO SATISFYING.

Guh. I've been lurking this thread because I need to finish my WIP before working on my hero series. QUIT TEMPTING ME, GUYS! I could talk original powers all day long.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

ShannonHumphrey said:


> I've been hearing a lot about The Reckoners. I may check that out this weekend.


If you listen to audiobooks, I definitely recommend picking them up on Audible. The reader is amazing. Either way, I found the stories well-paced and entertaining.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Nick Marsden said:


> 1. Shadowy Government organization - They either created the superheroes or are looking to use them for some nefarious purpose (or both).
> 2. Secret Identity - This goes for comics/tv/novels all. Usually it's a misguided attempt to protect those they love, but of course the villain always figures it out.
> 3. Wise Mentor - Shared with fantasy, there is almost always someone who teaches the superhero how to be a superhero, even if it's tangential or accidental.


That's encouraging. I've got all three in my outline, so far:
1. The military created a super-serum for the purpose of created "super soldiers"; protag is accidentally exposed to it
2. The protagonist wants to keep his identity secret to protect his wife and kid. His identity is eventually found out.
3. His mentor is his friend who owns a comic book shop and does cosplay, so his first uniform is cobbled together pieces from past Comic-Cons; he trains the protag based on things he's read in comics and seen in the movies


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> Finally found my cover model for _Attractive_. Paid $100 for the rights to use the image.


Are you sure you can use that image? I'd be very careful putting that on a novel about superheroes.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

I have no idea how you folks can afford to spend so much on covers. I spent $60 and felt like I was spending more than I had (thankfully I broke even).

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I have no idea how you folks can afford to spend so much on covers. I spent $60 and felt like I was spending more than I had (thankfully I broke even).
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


It's a worthy investment. Covers sell books!


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> It's a worthy investment. Covers sell books!


Well when you're unemployed and have $100k in student loans, not to mention a child, it's not always an option. I'm happy with my relatively cheap custom cover.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> Well when you're unemployed and have $100k in student loans, not to mention a child, it's not always an option. I'm happy with my relatively cheap custom cover.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


I like your covers. Especially the Ignites one.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

Mjcaan said:


> I like your covers. Especially the Ignites one.


Thanks. That was the only one I paid for. The other two I had to do myself :/

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> Are you sure you can use that image? I'd be very careful putting that on a novel about superheroes.


When my cover artist is finished, she won't be Supergirl. Symbol and colors will be completely different.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I have no idea how you folks can afford to spend so much on covers. I spent $60 and felt like I was spending more than I had (thankfully I broke even).
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


I'm a professional engineer with almost 20 years experience in my field. With 2 kids, I'm not exactly rolling in money, but I can swing a bit to invest in my writing projects. Plus, my first book did a lot better than I expected. I wasn't planning on being anywhere close to breaking even for a long time. Instead, I was almost in the black before I started paying for editing and covers for upcoming projects.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> When my cover artist is finished, she won't be Supergirl. Symbol and colors will be completely different.


*Facepalm* I never thought of that.

What about the girl, is there a model release....


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

geronl said:


> *Facepalm* I never thought of that.
> 
> What about the girl, is there a model release....


$100 is _very_ expensive for a stock photo so I'd imagine yes.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> $100 is _very_ expensive for a stock photo so I'd imagine yes.


That is true!


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> $100 is _very_ expensive for a stock photo so I'd imagine yes.


I wish there had been s stock photo that would have worked. At one point, I was trying to find a photographer to do a custom shoot. By the time I found her, I was happy to pay a hundred.


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## Neologist (Mar 11, 2015)

Nick Marsden said:


> In a novel, there must be a character arc. You can't copy comics. Novel reading and comicbook reading are two different things. So you can have your superhero, but that character must have and fix a flaw by the end of the book.


That's a very good point (in a good post), but there's something I think might be worth adding.

There's a technique I haven't used myself, but which I've seen used in long-running series before, and that is to give the character arc to someone _other than_ the main hero. I'm drawing a blank on novels, but the _Doctor Who_ TV series and the comic series _The Sandman_ both do it a lot. Basically, they'll introduce a side character, or introduce a plot which focuses on an existing side character. And for the length of that arc, the headline character is present and active, sometimes dealing with B-plots of their own, but the person who's _changing_ is someone else.

Basically, it lets the writers create long-running series without the protagonist having to be in a state of constant flux (or worse, "overcoming" the same flaw over and over). And as a bonus, it leads to more developed supporting characters. 

It doesn't work with everything, of course. A first-person series like _The Dresden Files_ would likely have a hard time pulling it off. And many series with third-person narrators just don't _need_ to use it. But it might be useful as a tool in the toolbox.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

Neologist said:


> That's a very good point (in a good post), but there's something I think might be worth adding.
> 
> There's a technique I haven't used myself, but which I've seen used in long-running series before, and that is to give the character arc to someone _other than_ the main hero. I'm drawing a blank on novels, but the _Doctor Who_ TV series and the comic series _The Sandman_ both do it a lot. Basically, they'll introduce a side character, or introduce a plot which focuses on an existing side character. And for the length of that arc, the headline character is present and active, sometimes dealing with B-plots of their own, but the person who's _changing_ is someone else.
> 
> ...


What I try to do is give at least one supporting character or even a villain a story arc (you can do this by switching POVs, even if it's first person) and give the main hero enough flaws that even if he fixes one in one of the books, there's still enough room for more in later books. Plus, I like doing time jumps between books, which I find helps to introduce more opportunities for character arcs. Sure, you can end a book with your hero as the perfect superhero, but if how about if the next book opens with your hero married, with a kid. All of the sudden he has to deal with the fact that others are relying on him to come back safe. Who does he have more of a responsibility towards? His family or random innocents? Can he risk his life now that he has a purpose outside the suit?

I'm not quite sure if what I'm writing makes any sense. Pretty high on pain killers at the moment thanks to my recent wisdom tooth removal.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I wish there had been s stock photo that would have worked. At one point, I was trying to find a photographer to do a custom shoot. By the time I found her, I was happy to pay a hundred.


Sorry the family connection you were hoping for didn't work out!

You're going to post it here once it's all prettied up, right?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Sorry the family connection you were hoping for didn't work out!
> 
> You're going to post it here once it's all prettied up, right?


The important thing is that I got what I wanted in that I can totally see that model as Hayli in my mind. And really, I don't mind paying a hundred bucks. I asked the (really expensive) photographer that wife chose for our last family photos how much she'd charge to use one of her photos for a cover (just for comparison). $1500.

I'll absolutely post the cleaned up version. I can't wait!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> The important thing is that I got what I wanted in that I can totally see that model as Hayli in my mind. And really, I don't mind paying a hundred bucks. I asked the (really expensive) photographer that wife chose for our last family photos how much she'd charge to use one of her photos for a cover (just for comparison). $1500.
> 
> I'll absolutely post the cleaned up version. I can't wait!


That's insane. Teresa Yeh charges a few hundred, but that includes model scouting, make-up and like 30 different photos to make your selection from.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Hey, everyone! My first superhero novel, "The Superhero's Test," is out. Here's the link for anyone who is interested: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GBYTJWS

The book is only 99 cents until June 5th, at which point its price will go back up to $2.99. So I'd suggest grabbing a copy now if you want it at this price.

Anyway, the book was a lot of fun to write. I'm about 30,000 words into the sequel, which I am aiming for a late June/early July release. I do not have its cover done yet, however, so I will have to do that sometime soon.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> Hey, everyone! My first superhero novel, "The Superhero's Test," is out. Here's the link for anyone who is interested: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GBYTJWS
> 
> The book is only 99 cents until June 5th, at which point its price will go back up to $2.99. So I'd suggest grabbing a copy now if you want it at this price.
> 
> Anyway, the book was a lot of fun to write. I'm about 30,000 words into the sequel, which I am aiming for a late June/early July release. I do not have its cover done yet, however, so I will have to do that sometime soon.


I just downloaded it through KU and added it to my ever-expanding TBR list. Good luck with it! I love the Damonza cover, by the way.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

Has the concept of the anti-hero been overdone?  Or is that something superhero readers/fans would like to see more of?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm looking to tone up the blurb for my superhero serial. Here's the blurb for season 1 collection. Any suggestions?



> *Classic Superheroes for a Modern World!*
> 
> A mysterious event has altered the genetic structure of humanity, granting a small percentage of the population superhuman abilities. In order to deal with potential threats posed by these specials, the President of the United States secretly forms a response team called Vanguard. Overseen by Colonel Leonard Thorne and led by Gunsmith, a soldier in a powerful exoskeleton, this team-the telekinetic powerhouse Paragon, the shape-changing Shift, the robotic Zenith, the shadow-teleporting Wraith, and the savage Sharkskin-must overcome their differences while also dealing with a parade of threats!
> 
> ...


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Sorry the family connection you were hoping for didn't work out!
> 
> You're going to post it here once it's all prettied up, right?


I was just going through the best sellers list in the Superhero genre. You're #2 right now. That is The Awesome. Congrats!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Karen is my heroine. Went from 30K to 3K almost overnight, and then kept climbing.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I'm looking to tone up the blurb for my superhero serial. Here's the blurb for season 1 collection. Any suggestions?


Perry,

Sometimes when I read a blurb, I'm like, "Well, all the other advice threads say to do this ..."

With yours, though, I find myself coming up against a personal pet peeve. I have a huge preference for giving characters prominent place in the pitch. Since you start off with worldbuilding followed by a team, I was immediately turned off the story. Does the story have a protagonist or is it an ensemble piece? I don't know, however, that's relevant to anyone besides me.

Getting back to parroting the advice people who know what they're talking about usually give, though, I don't think that wording like "Follow along in this first season as ..." is particularly good copy. I seem to recall others saying that anything that refers to the story as a story is, in general, not great.

Is listing the contents redundant to that last sentence?

I'm not exactly as anti exclamation point as some people are! But maybe using five -- five! -- of them in a short blurb isn't a good idea! Maybe! A! Little! Excessive!

I think some people would go the other way on this one, but I would be really hesitant about mentioning the X-Men and Avengers.

Really, though, I'm not exactly an expert at pitches. Feel free to disregard any of this, but I hope you find something helpful.

Brian


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Perry,
> 
> Sometimes when I read a blurb, I'm like, "Well, all the other advice threads say to do this ..."
> 
> ...


Perry, I largely agree with Brian's advice, though I will add the disclaimer I'm hardly a blurb expert either. Here's my stab at a re-write:

*Vanguard: The government's superhuman response team that deals with threats posed by rogue specials.

Vanguard is led by Gunsmith, a soldier in a powerful exoskeleton, and composed of telekinetic powerhouse Paragon, the shape-changing Shift, the robotic Zenith, the shadow-teleporting Wraith, and the savage Sharkskin. This team of powerful beings with even more powerful personalities must overcome their differences while wrestling with a parade of threats.

The team faces off against an arrogant would-be superhero, a twisted Cold War scientist, a radical revolutionary, and a vengeance-driven powerhouse. But waiting in the wings is a far more deadly threat--a mysterious warlord and his terrorist network, which plans to use specials for their own evil purposes!

Fans of the X-Men and Avengers do not want to miss this explosive all-new superhero series. This collection contains all five episodes of the first season, plus a special bonus episode previously unavailable!*

As you can see, I cut out some of the world-building stuff. With Amazon formatting the blurbs the way it does, as your blurb currently is structured, a customer has to click on "Read More" in order to get to the heart of your blurb. You want to lead with the heart of it. Think of it the way newspaper reporters structure their articles: lead with the most important, interest-grabbing part first as that might be the only part the reader reads. As it currently exists, your blurb buries the lead a bit.

I disagree with Brian on the Avengers/X-Men bit. By including that, I think you help a potential reader know what he/she is in for.

I hope that's helpful. Good luck!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

All, who's already done audio? Who's planning on it?

I know that The Never Hero found much of its success through audio. How are others doing? 

Lee and I are going through auditions now.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Darius Brasher said:


> Perry, I largely agree with Brian's advice, though I will add the disclaimer I'm hardly a blurb expert either. Here's my stab at a re-write:
> 
> *Vanguard: The government's superhuman response team that deals with threats posed by rogue specials.
> 
> ...


It's pretty good. Getting rid of the tagline is a bad move I think, though. They're apparently extremely effective. But one problem with cutting out the world building is specials are mentioned but there's no explanation as to what a special is.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

I need some help, guys. My book, A Spark Ignites,  has been tanking. I'm lucky if I get one download a week, and KU-wise it's not doing much better,  with maybe 3 full reads a week. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Is it the cover? The blurb? Any help would be appreciated.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I need some help, guys. My book, A Spark Ignites, has been tanking. I'm lucky if I get one download a week, and KU-wise it's not doing much better, with maybe 3 full reads a week. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Is it the cover? The blurb? Any help would be appreciated.


To be honest, the cover doesn't do much for me.

For one, it's comic book-style artwork. And while the art is good, it's been my experience that comic book-style covers just end up confusing people. Comic book readers aren't necessarily prose readers (and even if they are, they're not always superhero prose readers) and fans of superhero prose aren't necessarily comic book readers. The original cover for Vanguard was a very dynamic, comic book-style cover. And I got a lot of comments from people who were disappointed because they thought it was a comic book. Prose readers didn't give the book a second look because they thought it was a comic and comic book readers felt misled because it wasn't a comic book.

Second, even if you're intent on sticking with the comic-style cover, this art is good, but it's boring for a superhero cover. I don't get any sense of excitement or action from this cover, which is something I think a superhero cover should have. If I'm looking for a superhero book and I see one book with the hero sitting casually on a rooftop and another with a hero flying towards the reader in a dynamic pose, I'm going to click on the more dynamic cover every single time.

From a typography standpoint, I think your name's too small as well. Put it on two lines and at the bottom of the cover, maybe. Or push the title to the bottom.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

The cover doesn't work for me either.

It's minutes before bedtime here, but some quick thoughts on the blurb:

WAY too long, some unnecessary detail, too many commas, and repetitive instances of finds his / finds himself. As a reader my thought would be 'if the book is written like the blurb, it probably isn't for me'.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I need some help, guys. My book, A Spark Ignites, has been tanking. I'm lucky if I get one download a week, and KU-wise it's not doing much better, with maybe 3 full reads a week. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Is it the cover? The blurb? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


I always thought something was missing on the cover, maybe some lightening or something. I don't think it's a bad cover or anything.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I've tweaked the blurb a bit:

*Classic Superheroes for a Modern World!*

Superhuman threats require a superhuman response. Enter Vanguard--a government-sanctioned team of superheroes designed to deal with rogue elements possessed of incredible abilities! This team of powerful beings with even more powerful personalities must overcome their differences while dealing with a parade of threats.

But waiting in the wings is a far more deadly threat--a mysterious warlord and his terrorist network, which plans to use superhumans for their own evil purposes!

Fans of the X-Men and Avengers do not want to miss this explosive first season of an all-new superhero prose series! This collection contains all five episodes of the first season, plus a special bonus episode previously unavailable!


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> All, who's already done audio? Who's planning on it?
> 
> I know that The Never Hero found much of its success through audio. How are others doing?
> 
> Lee and I are going through auditions now.


I released my first audiobook in April and am working on my second right now. The first release is doing very well in my opinion, and I want to kick myself for not doing audio much, much sooner. I plan to release an audio version of everything as quickly as possible.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I need some help, guys. My book, A Spark Ignites, has been tanking. I'm lucky if I get one download a week, and KU-wise it's not doing much better, with maybe 3 full reads a week. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Is it the cover? The blurb? Any help would be appreciated.


I'll get on the bandwagon here and say it's probably the cover. I don't know that it entices readers enough.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Brian (BWFoster7: Thank you. I didn't know I got that high today. 

C. Rysalis: It wasn't overnight, but thank you. Having the book on $.99 sale for a week (due more to Amazon price-matching than anything else) drove it up the ranks quite a bit. It will probably free fall any day now.

------



MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I need some help, guys. My book, A Spark Ignites, has been tanking. I'm lucky if I get one download a week, and KU-wise it's not doing much better, with maybe 3 full reads a week. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Is it the cover? The blurb? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


I've only the one book out, but here's my opinion as a reader. Feel free to disregard whatever you like.

I'd agree with the others on the blurb and the cover. _A Spark Ignites_ has the most interesting cover of your books (is the shadowed couple one a romance?), but it could use a little something to make it pop more.

As far as the blurb... again, too much going on as others said. You have several redundancies - Matt is always finding things, usually himself, he's going to die, he's outmatched, and every few sentences is a question. Where's his strength and agency? Matt might have to take Spark's mantle, but he is choosing to be a hero (I assume).

You also have one or two minor grammatical errors ("figure out the how").

My suggestions:

Paragraph 1 - Summarize. Intro the character, his power origin (the apparent accidental death of Spark, the city's...), and his personality. It's a good intro to the character, but you want to tease the reader, not explain everything. I do like the alliteration in the first line. Leave out the brother unless he's a major player.

Paragraph 2 - Throw in the Inventor and all those complications. Tighten it up - The Inventor menaces, Spark's death might not be an accident, Matt becomes obsessed with the dark reality, etc.

Paragraph 3 - This reads like a collection of taglines, rather than a summation or single thought. Summarize, and pick just one tagline to focus on.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> All, who's already done audio? Who's planning on it?
> 
> I know that The Never Hero found much of its success through audio. How are others doing?
> 
> Lee and I are going through auditions now.


I'd love to do audio, but there's no way I can afford it anytime soon. I'm not selling enough to even cover the costs of editing. Not by a long shot.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'd love to do audio, but there's no way I can afford it anytime soon. I'm not selling enough to even cover the costs of editing. Not by a long shot.


We're planning to do royalty split for book one. Zero cost upfront.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> We're planning to do royalty split for book one. Zero cost upfront.
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


I'm getting 5-10 sales + KU borrows a day and might tank anytime, I doubt any of the good narrators would accept an audio split. 

I hope sales will increase after the book 2 release. As a reviewer said, book 1 is basically a long prologue. Book 2 is dynamite.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I really need to rattle the cage of the illustrator who's doing my cover, I want to be a more productive part of this conversation. My cover art is going to be much more cartoonish than what seems to be emerging as the genre standard, it will be interesting to see how I get on.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'm getting 5-10 sales + KU borrows a day and might tank anytime, I doubt any of the good narrators would accept an audio split.
> 
> I hope sales will increase after the book 2 release. As a reviewer said, book 1 is basically a long prologue. Book 2 is dynamite.


Put it up for an audition with a royalty split and see what happens. It won't cost you anything and the worst that happens is no one auditions. My book, The Lost Continent, is and was selling a whole lot worse than yours are and I still got a great narrator who auditioned.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Put it up for an audition with a royalty split and see what happens. It won't cost you anything and the worst that happens is no one auditions. My book, The Lost Continent, is and was selling a whole lot worse than yours are and I still got a great narrator who auditioned.


Really? That's good news. Maybe I'll give it a try. Thanks!


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've tweaked the blurb a bit:
> 
> *Classic Superheroes for a Modern World!*
> 
> ...


I like this version much better. I would change "possessed of" to "possessing" in the second sentence, though. As for the tagline, I like it. I did not mean to leave it out of my rewrite of your blurb.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> We're planning to do royalty split for book one. Zero cost upfront.
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


I've thought about that for the first in my series. Do you know how long the process takes, adn is the split 50/50? To me it sounds like a good deal.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> I need some help, guys. My book, A Spark Ignites, has been tanking. I'm lucky if I get one download a week, and KU-wise it's not doing much better, with maybe 3 full reads a week. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Is it the cover? The blurb? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


As far as my reading of this site indicates, a book's success seems dependent primarily on whether you've written a book that readers want to read. Assuming that's the case, you must convey that to the reader. You have only three ways to do that:

1. Cover
2. Pitch
3. Sample

I can't answer the first question for you because, frankly, if I knew exactly what readers wanted to read, my writing career would be in a much better place 

But assuming you've written that book, I think you have issues with the way you're conveying the information to your prospective customers.

1. Cover

When I sent my cover for _Repulsive_ to the artist who did _Rise_, I was disappointed in what I got back. It just wasn't dynamic, and it looked cartoonish. Then Kerry took a stab at a redo, and I was like, "Wow!" Not only did it instantly convey the genre, but it was dynamic and stood out. Yours has the problem that I started with. It's not like it's terrible or anything, but there's nothing to compel interest. How many potential customers have passed up your book simply because the cover did not force them to click it?

2. Pitch

Likewise the pitch does not quickly compel interest. In the most valuable real estate for your book's Amazon page (the portion of your pitch that appears above the "read more" line), you give me 30 words -- 30! -- telling me that Matt is a normal teenager. You could have done that with 3 -- Normal teenager Matt ... Likewise, the entire thing could be written to pack more punch.

3. Sample

Let's say that a reader makes it past the cover and the pitch and decides to read your first chapter. What happens? Your character runs late to class, is annoyed at his brother, and his teacher, due to the annoying brother, forgives the character for being late. Where's the action? Where's the tension?

In an ideal world, each of the 3 elements I've listed above must compel the potential customer to buy your book. Compel. As in, I don't want to spend my hard-earned money, but I don't have a choice. That cover just conveys action and intrigue. That pitch tells me the story is exactly what I want to read. The sample was so filled with tension that I couldn't stop reading.

Again though, I am not anywhere close to being an expert. I tend to have very particular views on what should be done, and those views aren't always reflective of what readers want. If any of that helped you, use it. If no, just disregard.

Thanks.

Brian

EDIT: Regarding the cover, compare my first version to my final version:


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've tweaked the blurb a bit:
> 
> *Classic Superheroes for a Modern World!*
> 
> ...


Your first sentence is: superhuman threats require a superhuman response.

Okay, that's punchy, and tells me that we're in genre, a plus in my book.

Second sentence: Enter Vanguard -- (why is this an emdash instead of just a comma?) a government-sanctioned team of superheroes (Okay, besides the odd punctuation, I'm with you so far. The story makes sense. You have superhuman threats and need a superhuman response. Vanguard is that response.) designed to deal with rogue elements possessed of incredible abilities! Uh, isn't this last part completely redundant? You've already told me that you need a superhuman response and that the government has created a team of superheroes. It seems repetitive to then tell me that yes, Vanguard is that response. As a reader, I feel like I can put 2 and 2 together.

Third sentence: This team of powerful beings with even more powerful personalities must overcome their differences (again, I'm liking the start of this. You're giving me info that there are going to be character conflicts. That's a Good Thing for me.) while dealing with a parade of threats. (You lost me as a reader a bit at this ending. It just sounds like you're going to have them spin their wheels a lot in fights that have nothing to do with the plot. My personal preference is to read tighter stories.)

Fourth sentence: But waiting in the wings is a far more deadly threat--a mysterious warlord and his terrorist network, which plans to use superhumans for their own evil purposes! (Conceptually, I like this, but if it were me writing it, I'd probably rearrange as the passive construction is something I try to avoid - see what I did there  .)

Anyway, I like this overall a lot better than the first version. Hope this helps.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

kdiem said:


> C. Rysalis: It wasn't overnight, but thank you. Having the book on $.99 sale for a week (due more to Amazon price-matching than anything else) drove it up the ranks quite a bit. It will probably free fall any day now.


Karen, 
I noticed your book is one of only three in the Superhero top 20 that aren't in KDP Select. Why did you decide to go wide and how are you doing on the other stores?
My current plan is to go in Select, but I'm tempted to go wide, too.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

The Kboards advice on that right now that I keep seeing is to use KU for the first 90 days, then go wide to maximize profit.... You'd probably be better off asking someone with more books out and more self-publishing experience.

I had a lot of reasons... the core of it is that it felt like the right thing to do. I'd sell paperbacks too if I didn't have to charge 15 or 16$ USD for each book to break even (_Super_ comes in at 110700 words or so), and the idea of burning my readers for that much is seriously distasteful. My goal is slow and steady growth over the life of my Arca series.

1. I have the completely unsupported-by-anything theory that people will remember my book more if they buy it versus reading it via Kindle Unlimited. I've read hundreds of KU books myself, couldn't tell you the names or authors of most of them... no offense KU authors. Your books are fine; my memory is crap and I read only when I'm too exhausted to write.

2. When I was setting my own expectations, I figured I'd sell 10 books with my first book: 6 to people I know/am related to, and 4 to innocent strangers who wouldn't know any better. Of those, 4 of my friends and family prefer to get their ebooks elsewhere, and one is an Aussie. Amazon's not the biggest name everywhere.

3. In a kboard thread, I read that it's very slow to build up your sales elsewhere, but that a number of people have more success non-Amazon. Why not start building right away? The more places I'm at, the more chance of those 4 unsuspecting strangers finding me, and maybe they'll recommend me someday and I could sell one more book.

4. KU is very fluid. While I might toss in a novella or something someday just to let KU-only readers get a taste of my writing, I'd really rather know roughly what I'll be making. Yes, VAT drives me crazy.

5. I'm a slow writer with very limited writing time per day. KU seems, based on kboards, to be the sort of place where the zippy writers flourish and the tortoises get lost in the shuffle.

As far as what's actually selling right now, Amazon is currently far and away my best seller. However, I've got over 100 sales at iTunes, and a handful of sales elsewhere I wouldn't have if I'd gone the KU route. Also, my non-Amazon readers have left a much higher proportion of positive reviews/ratings than my Amazon reviews.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> Third sentence: This team of powerful beings with even more powerful personalities must overcome their differences (again, I'm liking the start of this. You're giving me info that there are going to be character conflicts. That's a Good Thing for me.) while dealing with a parade of threats. (You lost me as a reader a bit at this ending. It just sounds like you're going to have them spin their wheels a lot in fights that have nothing to do with the plot. My personal preference is to read tighter stories.)


It's a serial. There isn't one plot. Each episode has its own self-contained plot with a larger, overarching plot.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> It's a serial. There isn't one plot. Each episode has its own self-contained plot with a larger, overarching plot.


Perry-when you started Vanguard, did you have the larger, overarching plot already mapped out in your mind? Or was it something that evolved as you wrote?


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

kdiem said:


> As far as what's actually selling right now, Amazon is currently far and away my best seller. However, I've got over 100 sales at iTunes, and a handful of sales elsewhere I wouldn't have if I'd gone the KU route. Also, my non-Amazon readers have left a much higher proportion of positive reviews/ratings than my Amazon reviews.


Thanks for the response, Karen.
I'm still contemplating going wide, though I may just take the easy road and start out with KU for 90 days.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Will C. Brown said:


> Thanks for the response, Karen.
> I'm still contemplating going wide, though I may just take the easy road and start out with KU for 90 days.


Happy to help. As I said, I've only the one book so others may have better advice. KU for 90 days and then wide does seem to be highly recommended. It does sound easier to do KU and then go wide versus going from wide to KU.

Plan on questioning whatever you pick down the road -- I've seen so many posts where people are reconsidering their publishing options, so choose whatever seems best right now, so you can at least tell yourself that you did the best you could at the time.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Nicksm28 said:


> Perry-when you started Vanguard, did you have the larger, overarching plot already mapped out in your mind? Or was it something that evolved as you wrote?


It was always mapped out, at least roughly speaking. When I approach each new season, I start by roughly mapping out a basic synopsis for each episode, then figure out an overarching plot that can work through them.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> Thanks for the response, Karen.
> I'm still contemplating going wide, though I may just take the easy road and start out with KU for 90 days.


I think that each of us has to make our own call on this particular decision, and truthfully, I'm not sure what is best. I do think the 90 day thing sounds like a good idea.

For me right now, I'm focusing completely on putting everything in KU and leaving it there. Here's why:

- Every part of indie writing is accompanied by a learning curve, and I don't think anything about this business is simple. Focusing on one platform allows me to not spend time worrying about how to navigate and build other platforms. For the moment, I think getting better at writing and learning how to run ads on Facebook are better uses of my time then learning and dealing with other platforms.

- So far, I've sold 287 ebooks. Then I look at the KU numbers. I'm at the equivalent of 421 books read. Since most of those are for an epic fantasy novel, I make pretty close to the same $ for a sale and a read. Since I haven't done much promotion, my sales and reads have plummeted, but the gap between reads and sales is increasing. I only had a total of 3 sales in May, but I had 10 reads (the nice thing about having low numbers is that I can see that almost all my readers are making it through the full book. Even cooler, people who read the novella first immediately follow up with the novel!).

EDIT: Random bonus observation - People who subscribe to KU read freaking fast. My novel is 122,000 words. Most people read it in a single day. Almost everyone finishes it in no more than 2 days. (Unless there's some observation bias with recording the data or syncing or some such ...)

- My plan is to do free promotions of the first book when the series are finished, and I can only do that if I'm in KU.

Again, though, to each his own. There are pluses and minuses to each. I doubt, however, that I'll stay in KU forever. 1) I really do hate contributing to Amazon's market dominance (though, really, I'm such a prawny prawn that I'm not really doing much of anything either way. Still, it's the principle ...). 2) More to the point, I'm not sure if KU offers me much longterm advantage compared to the value of diversifying.

EDIT: I just finished updating my finances spreadsheet for May. My best estimate is that I'm about $700 in the hole for my writing career. That's actually not bad considering that that number takes into account the complete production costs (editing and cover) for the short story that I'm putting out in September and the novel that I'm putting out in October (both projects are basically complete - back from the proofreader with corrections made, front and back matter done. Just have to do the paperback formatting for Repulsive, and I'll be 100% done!). Basically, unless Repulsive tanks completely, I should be in the black starting sometime in October - of course, that doesn't count the expenditures between now and then as I've got to pay a couple hundred for the Attractive cover, $200 - $300 for the Gryphon cover, and at least $500 to $600 for editing Gryphon. Oh, and promos. Can't forget the promos. Ouch


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Any thoughts on cross-promotion? Should we follow Patty's example and create a three-day promotion where everyone makes one of their books free or $0.99 and we list them all on someone's site? Or should we do something else like a Facebook event? Or an event/giveaway like the SPRT people did?


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Any thoughts on cross-promotion? Should we follow Patty's example and create a three-day promotion where everyone makes one of their books free or $0.99 and we list them all on someone's site? Or should we do something else like a Facebook event? Or an event/giveaway like the SPRT people did?


I think it's a great idea. My book won't be out until late this year, but I'd definitely participate in future promotions if it'll be recurring.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

We sort of had a cross promo with Genre reader May 18 to 20, but the problem was that many SH writers had already used their free / 99c countdown days. How about we do a cross promo that doesn't rely on reduced prices? That way everyone can take part.  

Edit to add: or maybe we could do a cross-promo of SH books that are in KU?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> We sort of had a cross promo with Genre reader May 18 to 20, but the problem was that many SH writers had already used their free / 99c countdown days. How about we do a cross promo that doesn't rely on reduced prices? That way everyone can take part.
> 
> Edit to add: or maybe we could do a cross-promo of SH books that are in KU?


Any of those would be fine by me.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

I'd be up for whatever. Good way to keep things moving until my third novel's ready to release...


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

If we do this, would everyone be willing to chip in $5-10 to purchase a Facebook ad?


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> If we do this, would everyone be willing to chip in $5-10 to purchase a Facebook ad?


What would be the purpose of the promo - to build your mail list or get sales?


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Also, I thought the idea of a boxed set was mentioned earlier in this thread, or has that idea simply been abandoned?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KevinH said:


> What would be the purpose of the promo - to build your mail list or get sales?


Exposure to like-minded readers more than anything. All the participating books are hosted on a single page and everyone participating in the event informs their list of the event. Check out Patty's SFF promo for an idea of how it works. This latest one she did was a free one, but she's also done ones for $0.99 books.



KevinH said:


> Also, I thought the idea of a boxed set was mentioned earlier in this thread, or has that idea simply been abandoned?


The way I see it, a box set is a hell of a lot more work than a promo event. You need to have someone who knows what they're doing assemble all the books into a set, you need to get a new cover for the set designed, and you need someone responsible to handle all the money and arrange contracts and deal with the tax stuff. Because if this box set becomes profitable and that income gets reported, whoever's in charge will be liable for those taxes or better have all the W9 stuff sorted out.

I led the charge on a box set once and it was such a massive pain that I won't take charge on another. If someone else wants to be responsible for all that stuff, that's fine.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> The way I see it, a box set is a hell of a lot more work than a promo event. You need to have someone who knows what they're doing assemble all the books into a set, you need to get a new cover for the set designed, and you need someone responsible to handle all the money and arrange contracts and deal with the tax stuff. Because if this box set becomes profitable and that income gets reported, whoever's in charge will be liable for those taxes or better have all the W9 stuff sorted out.
> 
> I led the charge on a box set once and it was such a massive pain that I won't take charge on another. If someone else wants to be responsible for all that stuff, that's fine.


Contracts I'll agree that bundles do involve a certain amount of sweat equity, but it sounds like yours was more convoluted than anything we did. Also, it's my understanding that the taxes were fairly simple for us: the point person was in Canada, so there was no requirement to issue tax forms or withhold. They just paid out the money and declared it as an expense. (Of course, that may not be the case if this group were to do a boxed set, so I'll concede that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.)

Hmmm...How about we get a firm headcount of who might want to participate, and if there's enough interest maybe then we can get into the weeds on things like taxes, division of labor, etc.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

KevinH said:


> Contracts I'll agree that bundles do involve a certain amount of sweat equity, but it sounds like yours was more convoluted than anything we did. Also, it's my understanding that the taxes were fairly simple for us: the point person was in Canada, so there was no requirement to issue tax forms or withhold. They just paid out the money and declared it as an expense. (Of course, that may not be the case if this group were to do a boxed set, so I'll concede that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.)
> 
> Hmmm...How about we get a firm headcount of who might want to participate, and if there's enough interest maybe then we can get into the weeds on things like taxes, division of labor, etc.


I'd be interested in participating, but I have no idea how things would work logistically having never participated in a multi-author box set before.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm up for anything. Cross promo, box set... whatever!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KevinH said:


> Contracts I'll agree that bundles do involve a certain amount of sweat equity, but it sounds like yours was more convoluted than anything we did. Also, it's my understanding that the taxes were fairly simple for us: the point person was in Canada, so there was no requirement to issue tax forms or withhold. They just paid out the money and declared it as an expense. (Of course, that may not be the case if this group were to do a boxed set, so I'll concede that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.)
> 
> Hmmm...How about we get a firm headcount of who might want to participate, and if there's enough interest maybe then we can get into the weeds on things like taxes, division of labor, etc.


Any time you're giving one of your books to someone else to sell on your behalf, even if it's only for a 90-day box set, you need a contract that specifies how long they can sell your work, what percentage of the royalties you'll be getting, and how they'll be paid out. You don't want to take that sort of thing on blind faith. Even if it's someone you trust, you need that stuff in writing.

And yeah, there are tax issues to deal with. Particularly for Americans. If the box set only makes like $10, then that's no problem. But if it makes a few hundred? Then you don't want one person getting saddled with that tax burden. There are several other threads about the tax issues with box sets here on KBoards.

That's why I recommend a Discount Superhero Book Day or something, when everyone submits one of their books, we put them all up on a page, and potential readers can choose the ones they want. It's a whole lot less work on the back end, no taxes or contracts to deal with, and money that would have been spent on designing a cover for the box set can be spent on Facebook ads.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> That's why I recommend a Discount Superhero Book Day or something, when everyone submits one of their books, we put them all up on a page, and potential readers can choose the ones they want. It's a whole lot less work on the back end, no taxes or contracts to deal with, and money that would have been spent on designing a cover for the box set can be spent on Facebook ads.


Yeah, I'm all for keeping it simple. At least at the beginning.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Any time you're giving one of your books to someone else to sell on your behalf, even if it's only for a 90-day box set, you need a contract that specifies how long they can sell your work, what percentage of the royalties you'll be getting, and how they'll be paid out. You don't want to take that sort of thing on blind faith. Even if it's someone you trust, you need that stuff in writing.


I don't think it has to be that complicated. Legally, a contract consists of three elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration. For example, if I offer to paint your house for $10 and you agree to the deal, we have an offer and acceptance. Consideration is anything of value that induces a party to enter a contract. We usually think of consideration as money, but it can be anything - such as a promise to paint someone's house and their promise in return to pay.

In this instance, the person putting together the boxed set lays out the terms (the offer): "_These_ books in a boxed set for _this_ price for _this_ period of time...royalties evenly split..." Your submission of your book into the boxed set indicates acceptance of the terms. (Conversely, if you don't like the terms, don't submit your book.) As to consideration, again, it's anything of value: a promise to put together the boxed set, a promise to submit a book, etc.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I never said the contract has to be complicated, I just said it's necessary to have a contract. The contract's actually the easiest part of a box set. Assembling the box set and dealing with the tax issues and payouts is more complicated. And again, that's not something I want to be responsible for. Which is why I'm suggesting a discount day. 

Once again, if someone else wants to take the lead on a box set, more power to them. But no one's stepped up for that and so I'm offering something else.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

I'd be up for a cross promotion sale where we each offer up one (or multiple, if you have multiple series and want to) book(s) on a page, with one of us hosting the page and the books remaining as individual sales. I'm more iffy on a box set because sorting out sales and money can get messy.

I recently participated in a sale where we all linked to/promoted a page on one author's website that had a list of all our books that were for sale for 99 cents each. We did see an increase in sales, and people weren't saddled with wading through any books they weren't interested in. (There was a broad range of sci fi.)

I'd be happy to kick in $5 or $10 for facebook ads, or to use $5 or $10 to promote it through Ascension Epoch's facebook page. I'd also step up to host the page that lists all the books.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I was hoping to host it on my site, actually. I've already got some ideas for how to set it up.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

I'd actually be thrilled if you hosted it on your site -- my only concern is that you were talking about a box sets, bundles, contracts, and tax issues. I know you say it's simple, but just having a listing of all the books on sale is simpler still, and no one has to worry about payouts, splitting profits, or figuring out who has to pay out what percentage of taxes.

Could you be convinced to just have a listing of the books that will be on sale instead of a box set?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShellPresto said:


> I'd actually be thrilled if you hosted it on your site -- my only concern is that you were talking about a box sets, bundles, contracts, and tax issues. I know you say it's simple, but just having a listing of all the books on sale is simpler still, and no one has to worry about payouts, splitting profits, or figuring out who has to pay out what percentage of taxes.
> 
> Could you be convinced to just have a listing of the books that will be on sale instead of a box set?


The contracts and the tax issues are only in regards to doing a box set. None of that stuff applies to the promo event. That's why I suggested the promo event over a box set--easier to set up, no new cover art needed, no tax forms to worry about, no contracts to sign. Everyone submits their book with Amazon link and the cover and agrees to discount it for the duration of the event and I create a page on my site. If everyone chips in some money, then that means we can run a Facebook ad to coincide with it.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> The contracts and the tax issues are only in regards to doing a box set. None of that stuff applies to the promo event. That's why I suggested the promo event over a box set--easier to set up, no new cover art needed, no tax forms to worry about, no contracts to sign. Everyone submits their book with Amazon link and the cover and agrees to discount it for the duration of the event and I create a page on my site. If everyone chips in some money, then that means we can run a Facebook ad to coincide with it.


My apologies. I took your earlier explanation (before this) as an endorsement of the box set movement, which wasn't your intentions. (And such is the way of message boards.) Yes, I'd be in for a promo event that's hosted on your site.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

This sounds good! Yeah, I can kick in $10 for a Facebook promo. I'm in whenever you're ready to go, and thanks!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Lee and I are in. I think I actually brought up leading the box set idea, but production schedule and the day job has been a bear. Certainly interested in a cross promo, limited time box set (KU), or other. Box set could be manageable if work were split up. 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Fortunately, this isn't an either/or situation; there's nothing that says we can't do a boxed set _and_ a cross promotion. Perry's idea about the promo page is a good one, and he's definitely right in that a boxed set would require a certain amount of work. Thus, it might make sense to establish two goals: one short-term (the promo page) and the other long-term (the boxed set - assuming we can get the proper person to spearhead it).

You can count me in for both. My only issue is that I told those who signed up for my mailing list that I'd only contact them when I had a new release. That being the case, I'd be hesitant about sending them the promotion, although I'd happily push it through standard social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.).


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Okay, how about we see if we can do this for July 8-10? Everyone will lower the price of their book to either free or $0.99 and everyone submits $10 to go towards a Facebook ad. I'll begin work on the submission form.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> If we do this, would everyone be willing to chip in $5-10 to purchase a Facebook ad?


I'm in.

All good with $10. I'd even go higher if you have some Facebook Fu.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

I'll chip in $10 for FB ads, or chip in $5 and run $5 in FB ads through our Ascension Epoch page promoting the linked promotion page  -- you folks can pick which you'd rather have me do.

I'm no expert in dates for marketing things, and I don't pretend to be. The day (Fri-Sun) proposed may be the best dates for the job. However, I've read some things here and there saying that people are more likely to check their email and facebook during the week, especially at work. I don't know how accurate that is. Has anyone had any experience with promo sales and whether they work best on weekdays or weekends?

(All that said, I'm in for the July dates pitched so long as everyone else is. I'm not trying to change the dates, I just want to confirm that that's our best strategy.)


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Okay, I've set up a submission page. Click here to submit your book.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> Okay, I've set up a submission page. Click here to submit your book.


The http is showing up twice in the ur link when clicked uponl. I can get around it, but you may want to fix the link.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShellPresto said:


> The http is showing up twice in the ur link when clicked uponl. I can get around it, but you may want to fix the link.


Weird, not sure how that happened. It's been fixed now.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

I submitted. Perry, you check out the bookbub ad beta yet? I was just poking around on the intro page. Not sure how it would work for targeting, since they don't have a SH category but thought I would toss it out there for people to consider.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

LilyBLily said:


> Change of subject.
> 
> I've been reading Chris Fox's book, Write to Market, and decided to look up superhero tropes. My books match everything on the lists I found except that they aren't about teenagers but about a floundering twentysomething.
> 
> ...


Huh. You didn't find any NA / adult superhero books? There's more than just a few of those  I don't think a teenage protagonist is a requirement.

I'd say the only 'requirements' are...

1) superpowers!
2) good guys vs bad guys
3) interesting powers, characters and problems.

I had ALL the odds stacked against me (first in a series where the first book is nothing but a long prologue, POV shifts, cover and title don't scream superhero, doing everything differently and deconstructing all the tropes) and still got well over 500 sales + borrows the first month. T. Ellery Hodges' Never Hero is also quite 'different' and sold so well that he quit his day job after his first novel. Tropes are overrated, imo.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> I submitted. Perry, you check out the bookbub ad beta yet? I was just poking around on the intro page. Not sure how it would work for targeting, since they don't have a SH category but thought I would toss it out there for people to consider.
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


I haven't looked into the Bookbub ads yet. Jim Kukral expressed some skepticism about the way they're displayed on the Sell More Books Show, so I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards them. With Facebook's targeting, we might have more luck with them.


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

LilyBLily said:


> Change of subject.
> 
> I've been reading Chris Fox's book, Write to Market, and decided to look up superhero tropes. My books match everything on the lists I found except that they aren't about teenagers but about a floundering twentysomething.
> 
> ...


I agree with C. Rysalis. Me and CMs first novel had similar limitations and similar successes while cutting out some of the more common tropes. I don't write YA or NA but most superheros from the Marvel/DC cannons are not teenagers (with some extremely successful exceptions) but that doesn't seem to have turned off younger fans. 
The trope thing is especially interesting when you look at Marvels success within their cinematic universe. It's hard to even call Guardians of the Galaxy a superhero movie if you're basing it just off of tropes and Antman was structured like a heist movie where the likable thief also happened to have powers. And Daredevil and Agents of shield look and feel almost nothing like one another. 
Jessica Jones was amazing while throwing out the costume bit. 
Batman is arguably the most well known superhero of all time (I said arguably) and he doesn't even have powers. 
Much of the MCU has ignored alter egos all together (although it looks like they're moving back in that direction).

I have no data to back this up, but I imagine readers are drawn to indie superhero books not because of their similarities to what has come before but because of their differences. At least I am. 
On a side note, The Steel City heroes is playing around with dropping the good v evil trope. We didn't go full on Game of Thrones or anything but for most of Book 1 anyway it's hard to figure out who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. I'm not sure if that helps us or hurts us in terms of sales but one of the superhero tropes that drives me a little crazy in SH novels is the fact that the protagonist tends to get powers and immediately sets about righting wrongs and saving the world. I have power (it's not super but I have time and energy and resources) and I rarely use them for charitable ends let alone put myself in danger. The righteous crusader for justice is one of the oldest superhero tropes and to me it feels worn out or at the very least hard to relate to.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LEBarbant said:


> I agree with C. Rysalis. Me and CMs first novel had similar limitations and similar successes while cutting out some of the more common tropes. I don't write YA or NA but most superheros from the Marvel/DC cannons are not teenagers (with some extremely successful exceptions) but that doesn't seem to have turned off younger fans.
> The trope thing is especially interesting when you look at Marvels success within their cinematic universe. It's hard to even call Guardians of the Galaxy a superhero movie if you're basing it just off of tropes and Antman was structured like a heist movie where the likable thief also happened to have powers. And Daredevil and Agents of shield look and feel almost nothing like one another.
> Jessica Jones was amazing while throwing out the costume bit.
> Batman is arguably the most well known superhero of all time (I said arguably) and he doesn't even have powers.
> Much of the MCU has ignored alter egos all together (although it looks like they're moving back in that direction).


But here's the question -- are the people who read superhero comics and watch superhero movies/TV shows the same people who read superhero books?

I love Chris' Write To Market concept, but I think superhero prose is still too new to have really defined itself in a way that makes the WTM approach effective. Just look at the best-seller chart in the superhero genre--it's all over the place. In addition to costumed superheroes, there's space opera, dystopian sci-fi, urban fantasy, and paranormal romance all mixed in there. Kind of hard to identify the tropes when they seem to be all over the place.



LEBarbant said:


> The righteous crusader for justice is one of the oldest superhero tropes and to me it feels worn out or at the very least hard to relate to.


Could not disagree more. Captain America is quickly outpacing Iron Man as the most popular character in the MCU and he falls square within the righteous crusader for justice archetype. The Flash and Supergirl have been extremely well-received, particularly the Flash, and both those characters fall into the righteous crusader for justice archetype.

In contrast, Warner Bros tried to take the righteous crusader archetype away from Superman and audiences completely eviscerated them for that move, so much that now WB had to hire Geoff Johns to fix their burgeoning superhero universe. And DC Comics has found that they've had to completely reverse course on getting away from the righteous crusader archetype as well, which is why Geoff Johns is undoing it all with Rebirth.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> But here's the question -- are the people who read superhero comics and watch superhero movies/TV shows the same people who read superhero books?
> 
> I love Chris' Write To Market concept, but I think superhero prose is still too new to have really defined itself in a way that makes the WTM approach effective. Just look at the best-seller chart in the superhero genre--it's all over the place. In addition to costumed superheroes, there's space opera, dystopian sci-fi, urban fantasy, and paranormal romance all mixed in there. Kind of hard to identify the tropes when they seem to be all over the place.


Perry, exactly!

What Lee and I have talked about several times in our podcast (and a few times here) is that the exciting thing about our genre is that it is so young. I think the group of us here in this thread (and beyond) have the opportunity to be shapers, not chasers.

Does it help to write in tropes? Sure.

But those are largely tropes established by other medium.

This is a new space and I for one am really excited about how we can actually work to define it.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> I love Chris' Write To Market concept, but I think superhero prose is still too new to have really defined itself in a way that makes the WTM approach effective. Just look at the best-seller chart in the superhero genre--it's all over the place. In addition to costumed superheroes, there's space opera, dystopian sci-fi, urban fantasy, and paranormal romance all mixed in there. Kind of hard to identify the tropes when they seem to be all over the place.


As far as the category goes, I think it's not so much that those other books are really "superhero" books, but more the fact that genre has become sort of a catch-all for books about anyone with powers of some sort (at least on Amazon): magicians, vampires, cyborgs, what have you. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. Moreover, unless Amazon further defines the genre by breaking it down into things like "Caped/Costumed Superheroes,"I'm not sure that there's anything to be done about it.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Karen's _Super_ is number 1 in Fantasy -> Superhero!

Great to see real superhero books leading sales, especially those by an indie author (and member of this group).

EDIT: Some additional notes:

- 13 out of the the first 32 books listed are about actual superheroes. That's a big change from the recent past when the first page was pretty much full of shifter stories.are indie published. (Note that I didn't do a ton of research on each of these before making my determination whether they were actual superhero or not. Some are obvious. Others were more difficult. I put The Girl in the Box series in the the superhero list, but I haven't read it and don't know if it actually is.)

- All 13 of those books are indie published.

- Most of the other 19, I can at least see some justification of inclusion in the superhero category as they tend to be about a person who has extraordinary powers. It's really a judgment call as to what is superhero and what isn't.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Perry, exactly!
> 
> What Lee and I have talked about several times in our podcast (and a few times here) is that the exciting thing about our genre is that it is so young. I think the group of us here in this thread (and beyond) have the opportunity to be shapers, not chasers.
> 
> ...


I feel like I'm fairly well read in the genre, and from my experience, it's all over the place. I think, in general, you see fewer of the "crusader for justice" types than you do of the more anti hero heroes, but I've definitely read both.

My preference for "writing to market" is writing what I want to read as a fan of the genre, and I agree with y'all that the readers of this particular genre allows a lot more flexibility than others.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> Karen's _Super_ is number 1 in Fantasy -> Superhero!


It would be nice if it were, but it's not.  Glad it stood out though for you.



CM Raymond said:


> What Lee and I have talked about several times in our podcast (and a few times here) is that the exciting thing about our genre is that it is so young. I think the group of us here in this thread (and beyond) have the opportunity to be shapers, not chasers.
> ...
> This is a new space and I for one am really excited about how we can actually work to define it.


One of the things I like about superheroes is the incredible variety - hero, antihero, powered duck. Novel format does not need to break away completely from the comic books, but we have the freedom of depth that most comics don't have. We can use it or not as we please. 
----
As far as the crusader for justice, I'm with Perry on that one. They still have appeal, though I do think writers have to be careful not to turn them into bombastic holier-than-thou types.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

kdiem said:


> As far as the crusader for justice, I'm with Perry on that one. They still have appeal, though I do think writers have to be careful not to turn them into bombastic holier-than-thou types.


Or Mary Sues who hand-wave any problem away (a personal pet peeve of mine). For this reason, I've made powers the cause of the 'problem' in my setting rather than the solution. Their use tends to cause all kinds of side effects, worldwide mass panic is a thing, and people don't necessarily love or trust heroes to solve problems.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> It would be nice if it were, but it's not.  Glad it stood out though for you.


It's number 2 right now, but it was at number 1 when I checked this morning.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Or Mary Sues who hand-wave any problem away (a personal pet peeve of mine).


I think I go way too far the other way on this one sometimes, making my protagonist too weak. I've discovered, though, that I kind of like really strong Mary Sue characters when I read, like John Ringo's _Ghost_. Ex SEAL who can literally do anything, keeps getting shot and still saving the day. Everybody he meets is incompetent compared to him. Seems like a classic Gary Stu, but I can't get enough reading about him.

I may have to try a character like that some time.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I think I go way too far the other way on this one sometimes, making my protagonist too weak. I've discovered, though, that I kind of like really strong Mary Sue characters when I read, like John Ringo's _Ghost_. Ex SEAL who can literally do anything, keeps getting shot and still saving the day. Everybody he meets is incompetent compared to him. Seems like a classic Gary Stu, but I can't get enough reading about him.
> 
> I may have to try a character like that some time.


Or a character like that with some sort of severe flaw/weakness. Common in superhero stories.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Quick KU question:

My understanding is that, while a book is in KU, I cannot give it away to my mailing list (except for the limited exception of ARCs for review?). As far as I can tell, there's nothing to stop me from giving the book away to my subscribers before publishing it as long as the book is not available anywhere once it's published. Correct?

Thanks.

Brian


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Quick KU question:
> 
> My understanding is that, while a book is in KU, I cannot give it away to my mailing list (except for the limited exception of ARCs for review?). As far as I can tell, there's nothing to stop me from giving the book away to my subscribers before publishing it as long as the book is not available anywhere once it's published. Correct?
> 
> ...


Brian,
I contacted amazon with nearly the exact same question. I was told that ARC copies are absolutely fine. Advance copies to subscribers/fans they see in that category (particularly if they are advance, i.e. your last statement). It just can't be offer either for sale or free anyplace publicly.

From what I have been told, you should be fine.

CM


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Late to the party. Is this thread for original superhero writers or also writers of established supers? Anyone playing with the Valiant Kindle Worlds series?


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## Samuel E. Green (Nov 26, 2015)

I think I'm going to write a superhero series once I've finished publishing my epic fantasy trilogy. I've always been a massive fan of superhero comic books, and the general philosophy surrounding them. One of the things I hate about comic books is the constant retconning, which novels wouldn't do. 

The only superhero novel I've read is Brandon Sanderson's Steelheart. Any suggestions for what novels to read to prime the pump for writing in the superhero genre?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Samuel E. Green said:


> I think I'm going to write a superhero series once I've finished publishing my epic fantasy trilogy. I've always been a massive fan of superhero comic books, and the general philosophy surrounding them. One of the things I hate about comic books is the constant retconning, which novels wouldn't do.
> 
> The only superhero novel I've read is Brandon Sanderson's Steelheart. Any suggestions for what novels to read to prime the pump for writing in the superhero genre?


The books anyone posting in this thread has linked in their signatures.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

Samuel E. Green said:


> I think I'm going to write a superhero series once I've finished publishing my epic fantasy trilogy. I've always been a massive fan of superhero comic books, and the general philosophy surrounding them. One of the things I hate about comic books is the constant retconning, which novels wouldn't do.


In novels we call it a plot twist


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Jim Johnson said:


> Late to the party. Is this thread for original superhero writers or also writers of established supers? Anyone playing with the Valiant Kindle Worlds series?


Welcome! Stay away from the glowy green dip, it just gives people gas instead of powers. Established versus new doesn't matter here.

Never heard of the Valiant Kindle Worlds series.  Others might've. I'm a prawn.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Samuel E. Green said:


> I think I'm going to write a superhero series once I've finished publishing my epic fantasy trilogy. I've always been a massive fan of superhero comic books, and the general philosophy surrounding them. One of the things I hate about comic books is the constant retconning, which novels wouldn't do.
> 
> The only superhero novel I've read is Brandon Sanderson's Steelheart. Any suggestions for what novels to read to prime the pump for writing in the superhero genre?


I'm sure everyone will offer our own!

There is really several kinds out there. The last one I read was The Never hero. It's a little nontraditional. As are many of ours...

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

CM Raymond said:


> I'm sure everyone will offer our own!
> 
> There is really several kinds out there. The last one I read was The Never hero. It's a little nontraditional. As are many of ours...
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


Not mine. It's very traditional, following numerous superhero tropes (with a twist, but only at the very end). Then again, my book is selling horribly. I sold 3 books this week, and that was a good week. So I'd stay away from traditional superhero fare if I were you. (As soon as I finish my trilogy, I'm giving urban fantasy a shot.)


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## m_d_reynolds (Jul 9, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> Late to the party. Is this thread for original superhero writers or also writers of established supers? Anyone playing with the Valiant Kindle Worlds series?


I thought about writing a bit in the Valiant universe when I saw that they were opening it up for Kindle Worlds since I grew up with the comics of the 90s in my veins. I, however, have succumbed to the "too much work at the day job" virus.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

m_d_reynolds said:


> I thought about writing a bit in the Valiant universe when I saw that they were opening it up for Kindle Worlds since I grew up with the comics of the 90s in my veins. I, however, have succumbed to the "too much work at the day job" virus.


Is the Valiant world open yet? I don't see it listed on Kindle worlds page.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Is the Valiant world open yet? I don't see it listed on Kindle worlds page.
> 
> Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


It's been open for some time now. It's not all under Valiant, each Valiant property is its own world. There's Harbinger, Unity, Bloodshot, Archer & Armstrong, X-O Manowar, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior, and Quantum & Woody.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> It's been open for some time now. It's not all under Valiant, each Valiant property is its own world. There's Harbinger, Unity, Bloodshot, Archer & Armstrong, X-O Manowar, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior, and Quantum & Woody.


Ah... right. I was looking fast for the Valiant logo. Thanks.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

For those of you who have submitted books for the promo, I'm going to go through the submissions and get back to you with more info soon. This weekend is pretty busy.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

No rush, and thanks for doing this!


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

m_d_reynolds said:


> I thought about writing a bit in the Valiant universe when I saw that they were opening it up for Kindle Worlds since I grew up with the comics of the 90s in my veins. I, however, have succumbed to the "too much work at the day job" virus.


Get well soon!!!


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, I just got the initial sketch for my cover. Hoo boy


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

alawston said:


> Well, I just got the initial sketch for my cover. Hoo boy


Gonna keep us in suspense?

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

Samuel E. Green said:


> I think I'm going to write a superhero series once I've finished publishing my epic fantasy trilogy. I've always been a massive fan of superhero comic books, and the general philosophy surrounding them. One of the things I hate about comic books is the constant retconning, which novels wouldn't do.
> 
> The only superhero novel I've read is Brandon Sanderson's Steelheart. Any suggestions for what novels to read to prime the pump for writing in the superhero genre?


I agree. At this point its hard to find something that isn't retconned in one way or another.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I've sent off emails to everyone who submitted their book. If you submitted and you haven't heard from me yet, please drop me a line.

If you haven't submitted yet, I'll accept submissions until July 1st. Once again, the submission link is http://www.percivalconstantine.com/authors/

If you know any other superhero prose authors who would be interested in participating, send them the link as well.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Say you're creating a FB ad that offers a freebie for a newsletter sign ups, what terms would you use to target prospective readers?
(i.e. not just comic readers or movie fans, but to find readers).

Open to any ideas.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Say you're creating a FB ad that offers a freebie for a newsletter sign ups, what terms would you use to target prospective readers?
> (i.e. not just comic readers or movie fans, but to find readers).
> 
> Open to any ideas.


The conventional wisdom is to target the big-name authors in your genre. But that's tough with a genre like superheroes, because they may not have a big enough following for Facebook ads to notice them. We don't really have a Lee Child or James Patterson of superhero books. When I did my Facebook ad, I focused mostly on targeting fans of the Avengers and the X-Men, both movies and comics, and I got some pretty good results.

Since I did that, Facebook has also given you the option to combine interests. So you can target people who like the Avengers movies and also read on Kindle, whereas before I think the combinations were done on an or basis, so it would have been people who like Avengers or read on Kindle.

Also, focus on one region, probably the States is a good bet, as there's a lot more targeting options that way. If you don't know the age range of your audience, start broad, wait to see who's responding, and adjust accordingly. I found my ads were most effective with people in their 30s-50s, which really surprised me.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry, your first paragraph was precisely why I was asking. I have done ads with the and option. That's good to know. I've played with the avengers/xmen and got some sales, but not much. I got some purchases running with UF/Dresden. We have certainly have some UF characteristics...

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Since some of us are writing 'unusual' superhero fiction that might not appeal to the comic book / Marvel / DC audience, can we broaden the target audience a bit? I can't speak for everyone, but I'd say my audience is fans of Worm, Wearing the Cape and Vicious. Including some UF might be great, too.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> Since some of us are writing 'unusual' superhero fiction that might not appeal to the comic book / Marvel / DC audience, can we broaden the target audience a bit? I can't speak for everyone, but I'd say my audience is fans of Worm, Wearing the Cape and Vicious. Including some UF might be great, too.


For the event? Yeah, absolutely. If anyone has any interests they think should be targeted, let me know and I'll see if Facebook will recognize them when I set up the ad.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

What would everyone think about setting up a closed Facebook group for superhero authors?


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> What would everyone think about setting up a closed Facebook group for superhero authors?


I'd be strongly in favour. I think this forum is fine for generalist writing chat, but when it comes to specifics, I do prefer a narrower focus. Facebook is also easier to work with on my mobile than that Tapatalk app (IMO, etc).


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> For the event? Yeah, absolutely. If anyone has any interests they think should be targeted, let me know and I'll see if Facebook will recognize them when I set up the ad.


How many audience targeting keywords can be added with OR? I'm still a total Facebook newbie, so sorry in advance if that's a silly question. If the number is limited and small-ish, how about we just add fans of Urban Fantasy. That should do the trick. 

Regarding a Facebook group, it doesn't cost anything, right? So why not. I still struggle to get into social media (and make time for it), but others might find it useful.


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

A Spark Ignites got another positive review, which as far as I can tell resulted in 3 more sales! https://thiskidreviewsbooks.com/2016/06/12/review-a-spark-ignites-by-michael-lachman/


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> How many audience targeting keywords can be added with OR? I'm still a total Facebook newbie, so sorry in advance if that's a silly question. If the number is limited and small-ish, how about we just add fans of Urban Fantasy. That should do the trick.
> 
> Regarding a Facebook group, it doesn't cost anything, right? So why not. I still struggle to get into social media (and make time for it), but others might find it useful.


There are a lot of different combinations. Targeting something like urban fantasy might be too broad, though. You want to narrow your focus so that your ads are as effective as possible.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Fun combo I found by accident: Adding in the "Power armor" keyword gets your book slotted into the Space Marines category. Pity that...


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:


> A Spark Ignites got another positive review, which as far as I can tell resulted in 3 more sales! https://thiskidreviewsbooks.com/2016/06/12/review-a-spark-ignites-by-michael-lachman/


Congrats man!


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> But here's the question -- are the people who read superhero comics and watch superhero movies/TV shows the same people who read superhero books?
> 
> I love Chris' Write To Market concept, but I think superhero prose is still too new to have really defined itself in a way that makes the WTM approach effective. Just look at the best-seller chart in the superhero genre--it's all over the place. In addition to costumed superheroes, there's space opera, dystopian sci-fi, urban fantasy, and paranormal romance all mixed in there. Kind of hard to identify the tropes when they seem to be all over the place.
> 
> ...


Great question and one I've long thought about. We are helping to create a genre in my opinion. Even thought this genre has existed in other media for decades, it's still rather new in novel form. I don't think the readers of comics books are going to be the same readers that will pick up our novels. When I think about the two, I ask myself what it is about the medium that attracts me. For comics, I love the visual impact and punch they carry. That isn't present in novels. But for novels, I love getting inside of a character and creating the visuals in my head based on the authors words. Those are completely different draws and I think many hardcore comic fans aren't going to try reading novels about superheroes. I think there is another audience out there...maybe the ones that go to the Marvel and DC movies that are in love with the action these moveis feed them. That's who we need to reach. Maybe our audience is sitting in the action/adventure Amazon section and don't venture into SH because they think it's all capes and cartoonish fisticuffs. We need to find a way to target those groups IMO. I also don't think there are any tropes for our genre that are well established either. If you really think about it, isn't UF the same genre but with magic based powers? If Dr. Strange were a novel what would it be? UF I would guess, but it's definitely being presented as a Marvel superhero movie, and that's also how the character is known in the comic world as well. I think the UF crowd is too entrenched in their tropes, but maybe there is room in the action/ adventure/ sci-fi crowd. I think in my next series I may toy with adding in some of the tropes from paranormal and seeing if I can lure some of that audience. I mean, if readers can swoon over an emo vampire that sparkles, why can't they swoon over an emo mutant who one day discovers that as his hormones kick in and he becomes excited, his skin can become like molten lava, keeping him from being with his one true love? ok, that's made up on the spot, but you get the picture. We can borrow elements from genres that are already out there, bend them to our needs, and gather new readers while shaping a new genre.
Just my thoughts.
MJ


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> Great question and one I've long thought about. We are helping to create a genre in my opinion. Even thought this genre has existed in other media for decades, it's still rather new in novel form. I don't think the readers of comics books are going to be the same readers that will pick up our novels. When I think about the two, I ask myself what it is about the medium that attracts me. For comics, I love the visual impact and punch they carry. That isn't present in novels. But for novels, I love getting inside of a character and creating the visuals in my head based on the authors words. Those are completely different draws and I think many hardcore comic fans aren't going to try reading novels about superheroes. I think there is another audience out there...maybe the ones that go to the Marvel and DC movies that are in love with the action these moveis feed them. That's who we need to reach. Maybe our audience is sitting in the action/adventure Amazon section and don't venture into SH because they think it's all capes and cartoonish fisticuffs. We need to find a way to target those groups IMO. I also don't think there are any tropes for our genre that are well established either. If you really think about it, isn't UF the same genre but with magic based powers? If Dr. Strange were a novel what would it be? UF I would guess, but it's definitely being presented as a Marvel superhero movie, and that's also how the character is known in the comic world as well. I think the UF crowd is too entrenched in their tropes, but maybe there is room in the action/ adventure/ sci-fi crowd. I think in my next series I may toy with adding in some of the tropes from paranormal and seeing if I can lure some of that audience. I mean, if readers can swoon over an emo vampire that sparkles, why can't they swoon over an emo mutant who one day discovers that as his hormones kick in and he becomes excited, his skin can become like molten lava, keeping him from being with his one true love? ok, that's made up on the spot, but you get the picture. We can borrow elements from genres that are already out there, bend them to our needs, and gather new readers while shaping a new genre.
> Just my thoughts.
> MJ


A few random thoughts:

1. I've noticed that there seem to be a lot of female authors and readers in the genre, much more so than I would expect if there were a lot of crossover to the comic book audience.

2. My favorite books in the genre tend to remind me a lot of my favorite books in epic fantasy, kind of coming of age heroes journey stuff. The main differences seem to be setting and use of superheroes instead of magic (as MJ mentioned).

3. If I am in anyway indicative of the market as a reader, there is a hunger for more books about actual superheroes in the genre. Every book that comes out with a cover that indicates actual tights and capes, I'm at least going to check out the sample.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> 1. I've noticed that there seem to be a lot of female authors and readers in the genre, much more so than I would expect if there were a lot of crossover to the comic book audience.


On a related note: I was invited to a superhero anthology of all female authors, featuring women and girls with superpowers. Can't wait to see how that turns out.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

I read a tip recently that suggested that one way to find out what readers in a genre wanted was to look at the reviews of books in that genre. Since I believe _Confessions of a D List Supervillain_ to be the best book in the genre, I pulled data from the last 100 reviews. Here's what I found:

- The most common reason (30) for liking the book was the characters. Readers really liked that he was flawed but still likeable. Very realistic. Related but a little more specific, 3 readers specifically noted that they like that he was an underdog.

- 19 readers liked the fast-paced action. Interestingly enough, though, 6 readers said either that it was too short or, basically, it wasn't slow enough. Can't please everyone!

- 16 readers loved how funny it was, and 2 more specifically commented about the snark.

- 7 readers liked the plot, and 7 more liked that the plot wasn't the "normal" superhero story.

- 5 readers commented specifically on how well the voice carried the book and 1 went so far as to note how good the 1st person narrative was.

- 3 readers thought that the worldbuilding was well done.

- Besides being too short (mentioned above), 2 readers mentioned grammar as a negative.

Overall, the vast, vast majority of comments were extremely positive, and only a few outliers didn't recommend the book (even counting those who included negative traits).

So what have we learned from this? No idea. I was hoping y'all could tell me.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> I've noticed that there seem to be a lot of female authors and readers in the genre, much more so than I would expect if there were a lot of crossover to the comic book audience.


Women in general read more books than men. Also, the female comic book readership is far larger than you may have been led to believe.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Also, the female comic book readership is far larger than you may have been led to believe.


But on Big Bang Theory ...


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> Women in general read more books than men. Also, the female comic book readership is far larger than you may have been led to believe.


No doubt partly why Valiant's FAITH series is doing well.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I read a tip recently that suggested that one way to find out what readers in a genre wanted was to look at the reviews of books in that genre. Since I believe _Confessions of a D List Supervillain_ to be the best book in the genre, I pulled data from the last 100 reviews. Here's what I found:
> 
> - The most common reason (30) for liking the book was the characters. Readers really liked that he was flawed but still likeable. Very realistic. Related but a little more specific, 3 readers specifically noted that they like that he was an underdog.
> 
> ...


D-List is a good example of the Genre. So's Richard Roberts' "Please don't tell my parents I'm a Supervillain." There's also Marion Harmon's "Wearing the Cape", and if you go far enough back, Austin Grossman's "Soon I Will be Invincible".

The thing they have in common, in my eyes, is that they all do a good job of mimicking a larger universe. Summing it up under worldbuilding and moving on doesn't explore the depth and weirdness that is a properly done superhero universe. This is an advantage that Marvel and DC developed organically... the need to keep comics going off shelves resulted in a huge body of work over the years, and stories of every conceivable kind, each of which added another layer to the universe, and resulted in settings where pretty much anything is possible, characters of all shapes and sizes, and a whole lot of rich history to draw from and upon.

The most successful books, in my eye, give that a nod and find a way to hint at a rich depth that allows pretty much the same thing. They don't explain everything up front, nor should they... instead you get references to "The Harvester Wars", or "The time Deathshead took out Prague", or "The Fausmann Accords" that were major events, but not fully explained until later, if at all. They tell and show just enough to show a very different world, and leave the rest to be discovered in due time.

When you use this technique, it gives the depth of your characters a huge boost, I find. Gives you more to play around with, and removes limits that might otherwise stifle plotlines.

So yeah. On "D-List," it's good voice, good characters, good snark. good action, but all of that is supported by the unseen structure of a thought-out world that FEELS like a superhero universe.

That's what superhero books need. That's what separates us from a lot of the urban fantasy stuff out there. That feel of an organically-evolved vast, limitless universe...


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> D-List is a good example of the Genre. So's Richard Roberts' "Please don't tell my parents I'm a Supervillain." There's also Marion Harmon's "Wearing the Cape", and if you go far enough back, Austin Grossman's "Soon I Will be Invincible".


_Wearing the Cape_ is a pretty darn good book. If I were going to continue the little experiment I started above, that would be my next choice. I'm not sure, however, that the data is very helpful? I didn't get a whole lot out of it. Did anyone else?

I really enjoyed _Please don't tell ..._, but I'm not sure I would consider that a good example of the genre. The protagonist's age is such an outlier compared to everything else I've read.

I haven't tried _Soon I Will be Invincible_. I'll take a look at it, though.

EDIT: Okay, I looked at it but didn't buy it. After the sticker shock of the $12 price tag, I also discovered it's present tense. I know that a lot of the books in the genre are written present tense, but I have a really, really hard time reading it. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I guess.



> all of that is supported by the unseen structure of a thought-out world that FEELS like a superhero universe.
> 
> That's what superhero books need. That's what separates us from a lot of the urban fantasy stuff out there. That feel of an organically-evolved vast, limitless universe...


I have a hard time attributing any of my enjoyment of a book to the worldbuilding.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> It would be nice if it were, but it's not.  Glad it stood out though for you.


I was confused when you said your book wasn't number 1. Now, I've discovered the issue: There's a different ranking for Kindle ebooks->fantasy->superhero, which is where I was looking.

Super was number 1 in that category for a while. I still say congrats are in order!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I was confused when you said your book wasn't number 1. Now, I've discovered the issue: There's a different ranking for Kindle ebooks->fantasy->superhero, which is where I was looking.
> 
> Super was number 1 in that category for a while. I still say congrats are in order!


Thank you! If I'd known that was where to look, I would have taken a screenshot. I never made #1 anywhere else that I looked.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Thank you! If I'd known that was where to look, I would have taken a screenshot. I never made #1 anywhere else that I looked.


I'm very glad to have discovered the answer to this little mystery. Today, I bought two new superhero books that didn't show up at all on the first like 25 pages of the ebook category but were in the top 10 in the other category. I also noticed that the other category has a few books that are "currently unavailable" listed kind of high. I think the ebook ranking one might be the better one to look at ...


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

LilyBLily said:


> I find it almost impossible to FIND the superhero category on Amazon--in fact, almost impossible to find any listings of books in sales rank order. If someone wants to point me to a surefire way of getting to the definitive listing of superhero books, I'd be grateful. I tried Kindle>superheroes and ended up in kids' books.


I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. If you want a list that is free from miscategorized titles, I don't think it exists on Amazon. If you want to view books listed in the superhero genre:

Go to Amazon.
Click on "Departments" pull down
Books and Audible
Kindle Books
Scroll down to the list of categories under Kindle ebooks
Choose Science Fiction and Fantasy
Choose Fantasy
Choose Superhero

You can get a separate list by doing the same thing but choosing "Books" instead of "Kindle Books."

There's also what looks like a decent list here: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/10607.Super_Hero_Books_Not_Graphic_Novels_


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

LilyBLily said:


> I find it almost impossible to FIND the superhero category on Amazon--in fact, almost impossible to find any listings of books in sales rank order. If someone wants to point me to a surefire way of getting to the definitive listing of superhero books, I'd be grateful. I tried Kindle>superheroes and ended up in kids' books.


Amazon actually has a bunch of ways to get to a list of books on superheroes... and yes, sometimes they dump you into children's books with no way out. The lists are also inconsistent with each other.

To see the superheroes bestseller list, pick a superhero book and click its rank on the page.

To browse to another list, use BWFoster78's method. You can pretty much pick any combination of book or Kindle ebook and then drill down Science Fiction & Fantasy/Fantasy/Superhero(es) eventually. If you want just bestsellers, look for the Bestsellers & More link or Amazon bestsellers, and do the same drill down.

Results were crazy searching "superheroes" or "superhero". I avoid that one.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I just google for Kindle Bestsellers Superhero. Works like magic!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LilyBLily said:


> I find it almost impossible to FIND the superhero category on Amazon--in fact, almost impossible to find any listings of books in sales rank order. If someone wants to point me to a surefire way of getting to the definitive listing of superhero books, I'd be grateful. I tried Kindle>superheroes and ended up in kids' books.


A quick note, Brian's method will get you the regular category listing, not the best-sellers. Here's how to get the best-sellers:

Amazon.com>Departments>Books & Audible>Kindle Books.

Now on the Kindle main page, look at the content. Under the Kindle eBooks headline, right above the slider image, you'll see a series of links. One of those is Best Sellers. Click on that.

From there, you navigate to the superhero category as you normally would in the eBook category: Kindle eBooks>Science Fiction & Fantasy>Fantasy>Superhero.

Now you'll be able to see both the Top 100 paid books and the Top 100 free books in the category.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

MichaelLachmanWrites said:
 

> A Spark Ignites got another positive review, which as far as I can tell resulted in 3 more sales! https://thiskidreviewsbooks.com/2016/06/12/review-a-spark-ignites-by-michael-lachman/


Congrats! Every good review feels like a hard-won fight, and one that results in some sales is even better still.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Sorry the family connection you were hoping for didn't work out!
> 
> You're going to post it here once it's all prettied up, right?


I actually started another thread to get comments on the cover. Just in case y'all missed it, I'd love some comments ...

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,237681.0.html


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

For those of you participating in the sale but haven't responded to my emails, please do so. There's information you should have received that's pretty important, and some things you have to send me. Check your junk folders just to be safe.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> For those of you participating in the sale but haven't responded to my emails, please do so. There's information you should have received that's pretty important, and some things you have to send me. Check your junk folders just to be safe.


Eep! My spam folder ate your emails. Sent the cover now, please let me know if you got it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> Eep! My spam folder ate your emails. Sent the cover now, please let me know if you got it.


Got it, thanks!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> For those of you participating in the sale but haven't responded to my emails, please do so. There's information you should have received that's pretty important, and some things you have to send me. Check your junk folders just to be safe.


Big thanks to Perry for organizing this!

We're getting excited and have lined up the release of book 3 of our series with the SH promo... Making an event of the whole thing.

Regards,

CM


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks, CM!

I've started the Facebook group. They wouldn't let me create a group without adding any members and since I don't believe I know any of you on Facebook yet, I just added the email addresses of everyone participating in the event. If anyone wants to join the group, it can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Thanks, CM!
> 
> I've started the Facebook group. They wouldn't let me create a group without adding any members and since I don't believe I know any of you on Facebook yet, I just added the email addresses of everyone participating in the event. If anyone wants to join the group, it can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


Thanks for this, Perry!


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Final version of the cover:


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Bump. (The thread was on the 9th page of WC and in danger of falling into obscurity.)


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## LEBarbant (Mar 4, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> Thanks, CM!
> 
> I've started the Facebook group. They wouldn't let me create a group without adding any members and since I don't believe I know any of you on Facebook yet, I just added the email addresses of everyone participating in the event. If anyone wants to join the group, it can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


Joined it and I am excited!


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

In the early banter of today's podcast, we chat a little bit about genre, genre breaking and reviews, and MJcaan gets a little shout out from Lee.

If you're interested:
Subscribe on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/part-time-writers-podcast/id1092617862?mt=2
Listen Here: https://ia801501.us.archive.org/17/items/PTW22Money/PTW%2022%20Money.mp3


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LAST NOTICE!

July 1st is the deadline for submitting books.

Also, if you have submitted, check your inbox. I still haven't received information and payment from some participants. I'm going to assume that people who submitted but haven't provided payment and other relevant details are no longer interested in the event and will not be featured.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Hm... I believe I paid you, yes? Just making sure. it's been a weird day.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Hm... I believe I paid you, yes? Just making sure. it's been a weird day.


Yup, you're all set, Andrew. All books that are featured on the site are paid up. If your book isn't on the site, then check your email--it means I haven't gotten payment or the relevant information from you.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Yup, you're all set, Andrew. All books that are featured on the site are paid up. If your book isn't on the site, then check your email--it means I haven't gotten payment or the relevant information from you.


Looks good, Perry! Thanks.
I hope to join in on a future promotion sometime after I release in Septemberish.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

We're just about set up for the event! Facebook ad is all set up and ready to go and I've scheduled posts to my blog and email list.

If you're participating, I just sent out an email with some images to use on Facebook and Twitter in promoting the event. If you're not running a Countdown deal, be sure to set your promo prices now to ensure they take effect by the time the event begins. Also, schedule your mailings for your email list and your posts to your blogs. If you use a social media scheduler like HootSuite, might be a good idea to set those up, too.

If you're not participating in the event, please consider helping us out. Sharing to your lists would be wonderful but a simple social media share would be great as well. The more eyes we get this in front of, the better results we can have! And that increases the likelihood that we'll do more of these events in the future.

The link for the event is http://percivalconstantine.com/superhero/

Here are two images you can use, large one is for Facebook, small is for Twitter.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

Will C. Brown said:


> Looks good, Perry! Thanks.
> I hope to join in on a future promotion sometime after I release in Septemberish.


Yeah I gotta keep checking back as well. Mine is also launching late August - early September.

Also, I just clicked to join the FB group, and was already accepted, lol that was fast! Thank you!


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

EvilTwinBrian, can you share some information about your upcoming book Two Percent Power? I see from another thread the hero's powers are milk-based. I'm intrigued. I'm assuming the book is satirical/funny, but maybe not.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

Darius Brasher said:


> EvilTwinBrian, can you share some information about your upcoming book Two Percent Power? I see from another thread the hero's powers are milk-based. I'm intrigued. I'm assuming the book is satirical/funny, but maybe not.


Yes of course, I can share 

I'm going for a tone like the Incredibles. It's got funny moments, but it's not a comedy, like Mystery Men (although I love that movie as well). It's about a hero with a weird super power that finds other heroes to team up with. It's sort of an origin story, without wasting time talking about how he got his powers, just about how the team got together to take on the supervillain and his organization.

I really love the Marvel movies with serious stories, but still peppered with levity, so it's not all so doom and gloom. I think Joss Whedon did an amazing job with the first Avengers movie, and that's basically what got me started with writing superhero stuff.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> Yes of course, I can share
> 
> I'm going for a tone like the Incredibles. It's got funny moments, but it's not a comedy, like Mystery Men (although I love that movie as well). It's about a hero with a weird super power that finds other heroes to team up with. It's sort of an origin story, without wasting time talking about how he got his powers, just about how the team got together to take on the supervillain and his organization.


Sounds good!
That's an excellent cover by the way. One of the best I've seen since I've been watching this genre.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks Will. It's an homage to Jim Lee's variant cover for Batman #608. I did the pencils, and had my brother ink it, but in order to really nail the feel, we hired a professional comic book colorist to finish it off. He really nailed it!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

It's officially Friday in America, so that means the event has begun!

Help us get the word out with one of the above images. Post it to social media and your mailing lists. The URL is http://www.percivalconstantine.com/superhero/


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I can't believe transition is a semifinalist in Mark Lawrence's SPFBO 2016 competition! There's no way in hell I'm going to make it into the final round - my design choice to go with a Game of Thrones style continuous narrative instead of a 'complete' novel is going to be the end of me - but it's still exciting.

Plus I'm a fan of the Bibliosanctum blog ever since I learned I was assigned to them for the competition. I checked it, saw a picture of a girl with a superhero cosplay costume, and was in love.

Here's the blog post: https://bibliosanctum.com/


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> Thanks Will. It's an homage to Jim Lee's variant cover for Batman #608. I did the pencils, and had my brother ink it, but in order to really nail the feel, we hired a professional comic book colorist to finish it off. He really nailed it!


You'll have to let us know how it does review-wise. I love your cover, but I've heard a few superhero novel writers say that having a comic-bookish cover hurt them review-wise because a lot of people bought it assuming it was a graphic novel (even though there was nothing else to suggest that it was a graphic novel). I always thought my comic-book style artwork was better than my other styles, so I'd love to hear a 'comic book style cover' success story for a novel so I could feel better trying out such a cover myself.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

I've seen the same thing as well (which was why it took me a year to come to the decision to go with the style). My hope is to connect to enough readers that those that feel the cover mis lead them will be far in the minority. I think comic style covers for comic style stories should be an option for authors in the genre, so hopefully this book will help.

Besides, I really enjoy drawing in that style, so I want to stick with it for the sequels.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I've no idea about the Superhero sale, but here are the stats for the Facebook ad I did a couple months ago. I hope the image isn't too small. I was blown away by how well it did - I barely use Facebook and had less than 20 likes at that point. More than half the people who clicked the picture also clicked the Amazon link.


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## ShellPresto (Mar 1, 2016)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> I've seen the same thing as well (which was why it took me a year to come to the decision to go with the style). My hope is to connect to enough readers that those that feel the cover mis lead them will be far in the minority. I think comic style covers for comic style stories should be an option for authors in the genre, so hopefully this book will help.
> 
> Besides, I really enjoy drawing in that style, so I want to stick with it for the sequels.


I, too, hope it works out for you, because your cover looks fantastic!


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

LilyBLily said:


> Wondering how the superhero super-sale did, especially the effectiveness of the Facebook ads. I've never had any luck with them myself; what targeting choices for superheroes were picked?


Perry posted in the Facebook group that it wasn't as effective as we hoped. I think that there were some lessons learned for next time. I'm sure he'll expand on them since he put the add together. You can find the discussion here: 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LilyBLily said:


> Wondering how the superhero super-sale did, especially the effectiveness of the Facebook ads. I've never had any luck with them myself; what targeting choices for superheroes were picked?


We reached 2,771 people, had six clicks, and the CPC was $8.72 with only about half of the ad's budget being spent. We targeted everyone from age 18-60 in the United States, targeted people who like DC Comics or Marvel Comics or Superhero fiction and also like Amazon Kindle and also like reading books. We limited the ad types to desktop ad placements, and for bid amount, set it for automatic (that was the biggest mistake, I think). So that's only a 0.2% conversion.

Someone pointed out in the Facebook group that we had the unfortunate coincidence of running the sale on the same weekend that Pokemon Go was released in the US.

The biggest mistake though was letting Facebook decide the CPC instead of setting a bid, and also the timing. I'm running an ad for Vanguard right now and it's been going since July 15th with a $5 daily budget and I also manually set the CPC to $1. The result so far has been 557 impressions, 10 clicks, $0.66 CPC, and $6.61 total spent. So that's a 2% conversion.

An unintended consequence of Mark Dawson's course and all he's talked up Facebook ads is that now everyone and their mother is trying them, so the effectiveness has become dramatically reduced. If you set the CPC to automatic, Facebook will give you a ludicrously high CPC.

So now, I'd say slow and steady would get you better results than trying to go for a big ad push (unless you can afford a massive budget).

It's also important to note that genre matters. If you're writing thrillers or romance or horror, there are big-name prose authors you can target through Facebook ads. But the superhero genre doesn't have that. Yes, you can target some comic book writers like Alan Moore or Grant Morrison, but there aren't any superhero prose authors at the same level and superhero comic fans aren't necessarily the same audience as prose superhero fans.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> I've no idea about the Superhero sale, but here are the stats for the Facebook ad I did a couple months ago. I hope the image isn't too small. I was blown away by how well it did - I barely use Facebook and had less than 20 likes at that point. More than half the people who clicked the picture also clicked the Amazon link.


I've been playing with FB ads for a while and this is REALLY good.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

CM Raymond said:


> I've been playing with FB ads for a while and this is REALLY good.


I need to research more about FB ads. Are you going to target more for sales or email list sign-ups?
MJ


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I think one of the things that's really helped Olivia (in addition to having a great cover) is that hers is one of those superhero books that can easily appeal to the urban fantasy crowd.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I think one of the things that's really helped Olivia (in addition to having a great cover) is that hers is one of those superhero books that can easily appeal to the urban fantasy crowd.


Very true. And the cover is more UF than SH.


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## treesloth5 (Dec 11, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> I think one of the things that's really helped Olivia (in addition to having a great cover) is that hers is one of those superhero books that can easily appeal to the urban fantasy crowd.


Olivia, which book is her's?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

bpmanuel said:


> Olivia, which book is her's?


In my sig!


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## MultiverseTales (Aug 3, 2016)

Oh cool! This thread is PERFECT for me!

I used to be an animator in Toronto and decided to jump ship and work on this series that I've been planning since I was twelve. 

This week I release my first two illustrated novels in my super-hero based series 'Multiverse Tales.' I wanted to make something halfway between a comic and a novel so I made a novel with illustrations on most pages. I'm also planning on making a trading card game and doing a kickstarter for them when I have the first 50 done. 

As you can see I've got big plans and I'll be more than happy to share how it all goes on here 

The first book is free right now if anyone wants to check out my approach to the genre! The link is in my signature. It's inspired by the Marvel Cinematic Universe and by Weird Science comics from the 50s.

I'm excited to go through more people's books on here and see what all y'all are doing in the superhero realm!


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## MichaelLachmanWrites (Feb 4, 2016)

MultiverseTales said:


> Oh cool! This thread is PERFECT for me!
> 
> I used to be an animator in Toronto and decided to jump ship and work on this series that I've been planning since I was twelve.
> 
> ...


Nice to see a fellow animator writing a superhero novel that's been in their head since they were a child! I can't wait to check it out!

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

MultiverseTales said:


> Oh cool! This thread is PERFECT for me!
> 
> I used to be an animator in Toronto and decided to jump ship and work on this series that I've been planning since I was twelve.
> 
> ...


Welcome! The MCU (and Marvel Comics in general) are a huge inspiration for me, so I'm looking forward to checking this out. Also take a look at the Facebook group we've created: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

MultiverseTales said:


> Oh cool! This thread is PERFECT for me!
> 
> I used to be an animator in Toronto and decided to jump ship and work on this series that I've been planning since I was twelve.
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard! Love your idea. Can't wait to see what it looks like! 
MJ


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Welcome to the group! 

I perhaps found one of them while tooling around Amazon. The ASP one. Are your keywords & age range right? Your books are marked as horror/dark fantasy... and set for the age range 11-18... It looks like you're getting some downloads though, so that's good.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm interested in writing Superhero as a serial for one of my spin-offs. What's the trope checklist to hit for this genre?


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

LucasCWheeler said:


> I'm interested in writing Superhero as a serial for one of my spin-offs. What's the trope checklist to hit for this genre?


That's a hard question. Their are so many different thoughts on that. The genre is kind of in its infancy, and I for one am not sure of the tropes. Depends on the type and direction I guess. Are you doing traditional Capes and tights? Teenager gets their powers? Those are all tropes, but they don't seem to translate well to novelized format.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

LucasCWheeler said:


> I'm interested in writing Superhero as a serial for one of my spin-offs. What's the trope checklist to hit for this genre?


I haven't started my superhero serial yet, but this is one of the resources I'm using to figure out the tropes: http://www.superheronation.com/

I'm also reading classic superhero comic books to get a feel for what types of stories superheroes get tangled in. Obviously, how the stories are portrayed in a novel will be different than how they are in a comic, but it's a start.

Try reading successful superhero novels to get a feel for how they did it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Mjcaan said:


> That's a hard question. Their are so many different thoughts on that. The genre is kind of in its infancy, and I for one am not sure of the tropes. Depends on the type and direction I guess. Are you doing traditional Capes and tights? Teenager gets their powers? Those are all tropes, but they don't seem to translate well to novelized format.


MJ's right about the genre being in its infancy, so there aren't really a lot of well-established tropes. There seems to be a lot of crossover between popular superhero books and urban fantasy, though. So maybe look at some of those in addition to checking out the successful superhero books.



David Neth said:


> I haven't started my superhero serial yet, but this is one of the resources I'm using to figure out the tropes: http://www.superheronation.com/


I wouldn't put too much stock in Superhero Nation. I read the blog a few times and he seems to actively despise a lot of tropes that superhero fans love. Oh, and don't waste your money on his book. It's overpriced and it's basically just a collection of superhero movie reviews with absolutely zero advice on actually writing superhero books.

You guys may also want to reconsider the serial approach. I think it actually hurt my series more than helped.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

So... working on Book 2, _Human_, to be released in the late spring. In the meantime, my cover artist has started work on the cover early (!happy dance!), and I want to have the blurb ready to put on my website for when the cover is done. Would you all please help me out with this one? You were a ton of help with the last one, and I'm struggling to figure out what's bothering me with this one... Thanks!

The world might be in an uproar over the reemergence of super powers, but Zita Garcia assumed her life would return to normal. All she has to do is keep her shiny new abilities hidden and refrain from further vigilantism. She could go back to safer adrenaline rushes, like illegally climbing urban landmarks and jumping out of perfectly good planes. Maybe even pry her brother off the couch.

As usual, life has no interest in cooperating. Inconsiderate supervillains are engaged in a bloody search for an ancient knife of dubious magical provenance, risking innocent lives and fueling nasty anti-super protests. While Zita doubts a fancy breadknife can grant power over anything other than butter, one of her best friends, Wyn, is in the path of the increasingly violent hunt.

Zita will have to don a mask again to stop the jumped-up bullies, save the world, and keep Wyn safe&#8230; even if said friend is barely speaking to her for reasons more baffling than the concept of "magic cutlery of mass destruction."

_Human _is the second in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and as a movie, would be rated "R" for immoderate language, lame sexual innuendo, and comic book violence.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for the link! I'll take a look, but I'll also take everything with a grain of salt due to the subsequent advice. It's a shame about serials... I was looking forward to the fresh format (for me), but just a series wouldn't be too bad either. It's not a deal-breaker from a writing standpoint.

I wish I could give advice on the blurb, but I'm not that experienced yet.  It looks fine to me though.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

My first superhero release is now in pre-order, though I'm still tinkering with the cover following excellent advice from Perry Constantine. Pre-orders are actually happening, which is a new thing for me, and I've found it a great incentive to get stuck into Book 2 so that I can hopefully have a pre-order ready to go by the time the first one goes live - or at least include a teaser for Book 2 as bonus content at the end of the first release.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Last week, I was on the Self-Publishing Roundtable to talk about the superhero genre and how to succeed in it. You can watch or listen to the episode here (note: for those who don't know, Lucas Flint is my pen name): http://selfpublishingroundtable.com/sprt-160-lets-talk-superheroes-with-author-lucas-flint/


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## JeremiahKleckner (Sep 17, 2016)

Thank you for starting this thread. I've been toying with a superhero series for some time now and it will be great to get some perspective before I get serious about it.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> Last week, I was on the Self-Publishing Roundtable to talk about the superhero genre and how to succeed in it. You can watch or listen to the episode here (note: for those who don't know, Lucas Flint is my pen name): http://selfpublishingroundtable.com/sprt-160-lets-talk-superheroes-with-author-lucas-flint/


I listened to your interview. Very well done. Congratulations on the success you're having with your series. Do you think you will have many fans that will follow you to your new work or will you try it under a different pen name?
MJ


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> The world might be in an uproar over the reemergence of super powers, but Zita Garcia assumed her life would return to normal. All she has to do is keep her shiny new abilities hidden and refrain from further vigilantism. She could go back to safer adrenaline rushes, like illegally climbing urban landmarks and jumping out of perfectly good planes. Maybe even pry her brother off the couch.


Don't get me wrong; I like the voice. But this seems like an awful lot of real estate to express that your protagonist would prefer not to keep being a superhero. I would think that this entire paragraph should only be a sentence.



> Inconsiderate supervillains are engaged in a bloody search for an ancient knife of dubious magical provenance, risking innocent lives and fueling nasty anti-super protests.


This sentence reads off to me. By the time I got to "risking," it took me an instant to connect the thought back to the search. Maybe pull out the information about the existence of the magical knife into another sentence (I like dubious magical provenance, btw)? Then follow that up with the search sentence.



> While Zita doubts a fancy breadknife can grant power over anything other than butter, one of her best friends, Wyn, is in the path of the increasingly violent hunt.


I like the first part. The second, however, just doesn't work for me. Maybe something like:

Zita doesn't understand how a fancy breadknife can grant power over anything other than butter, but everyone else sure disagrees. As the hunt for it grows increasingly violent, one of her best friends, Wyn, is put in danger.

That's not great, but I think it breaks out the info a little cleaner.



> Zita will have to don a mask again to stop the jumped-up bullies, save the world, and keep Wyn safe&#8230; even if said friend is barely speaking to her for reasons more baffling than the concept of "magic cutlery of mass destruction."


Again, there just seems to be so much information crammed into a single sentence that the impact is dulled.

Hope that helped!

Brian


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> So... working on Book 2, _Human_, to be released in the late spring. In the meantime, my cover artist has started work on the cover early (!happy dance!), and I want to have the blurb ready to put on my website for when the cover is done. Would you all please help me out with this one? You were a ton of help with the last one, and I'm struggling to figure out what's bothering me with this one... Thanks!
> 
> The world might be in an uproar over the reemergence of super powers, but Zita Garcia assumed her life would return to normal. All she has to do is keep her shiny new abilities hidden and refrain from further vigilantism. She could go back to safer adrenaline rushes, like illegally climbing urban landmarks and jumping out of perfectly good planes. Maybe even pry her brother off the couch.
> 
> ...


Sweet, your request for blurb help is perfectly timed from my purely selfish standpoint. I've been reading a bunch of stuff on blurb writing in preparation for my next release. Here's my stab at a slight rewrite. My additions are in bold, my erasures are struck-through, and my comments are in red:

The world might be in an uproar over the reemergence of super powers, but Zita Garcia assumed her life would return to normal. All she has to do is keep her shiny new abilities hidden and refrain from further vigilantism. She could go back to safer adrenaline rushes, like illegally climbing urban landmarks and jumping out of perfectly good planes. Maybe even pry*ing* her brother off the couch.

As usual, l*L*ife has no interest in cooperating* with Zita's return to normalcy*. Inconsiderate supervillains are engaged in a bloody search for an *so-called magic* ancient knife. of dubious magical provenance _(yeah, we writers know what words like "provenance" mean, but a lot of readers won't--keep it simple)_, *They're* risking innocent lives and fueling nasty anti-super protests. While Zita doubts a fancy breadknife can grant power over anything other than butter, one of her best friends, Wyn, is in the path of the increasingly violent hunt *for it*.

Zita will have*has* to don a mask again*. Can she* to stop the jumped-up bullies*supervillains*, save the world, and keep Wyn *and herself *safe*?*&#8230; even if said friend is barely speaking to her for reasons more baffling than the concept of "magic cutlery of mass destruction."*.* _This last part drains away the emotional impact of your climactic sentence. I'd take it out altogether. I will say though that this last paragraph needs even more emotional punch. Since I don't know your story, I'm unsure how to add it._

_Human _is the second in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, and as a movie, would be rated "R" for immoderate language, lame sexual innuendo, and comic book violence.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> Last week, I was on the Self-Publishing Roundtable to talk about the superhero genre and how to succeed in it. You can watch or listen to the episode here (note: for those who don't know, Lucas Flint is my pen name): http://selfpublishingroundtable.com/sprt-160-lets-talk-superheroes-with-author-lucas-flint/


I was so glad to hear this interview as I've been following the success of your superhero series closely. Congrats!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

When this thread comes back to life, it happens with a vengeance! 

LucasCWheeler:  Thank you for the comment on my blurb. I'm pretty new to this too, but this is how we learn.  

Alawston: Given the variety of your other work, I am both intrigued and slightly frightened of your upcoming superhero novel.  Somehow it's not surprising you would pick that grim and obscure fairy tale to rewrite.  

JeremiahKleckner: Good luck! The lovely thing about superhero writing is it offers so many different directions you can go, so don't lock yourself into anything you don't care for. 

Brian Foster: Thanks! Too much in too little a space again... the same reason I had to pare Super by 40K words before I released it. Good suggestions, I'll fiddle with it some more and repost it again once I've tweaked it. 

Darius Brasher: Thank you for the in depth critique. Glad my frustration with the blurb could be of service.   You've managed to give me some ideas on directions to go with the next draft of it, which helps a lot. It'll hurt to kill "dubious magical provenance" though. The conflict with Wyn has to stay in, but clearly I need to move or rewrite it... trying to address character development more in this book and signal that to returning readers.

Still open to more suggestions on the blurb if anyone else wants to help.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

kdiem said:


> Alawston: Given the variety of your other work, I am both intrigued and slightly frightened of your upcoming superhero novel.  Somehow it's not surprising you would pick that grim and obscure fairy tale to rewrite.


Thanks, I think  My upcoming title is more of a novelette (around 13,000 words), but there's only so far you can expand a 300 word fairy tale! I found the idea when I was discussing the stories in "my" volume of Grimm and Grimmer with the editor. There was a version of the story in that book, and I felt they'd missed a few opportunities by not taking a few more risks with their adaptation. We'll see if it works out!

The second book will be longer, and takes _The Little Mermaid_ as its inspiration. And I mean the _nasty_ original version of that story, rather than Disney's adaptation.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

I started a thread a little while ago asking for help on the draft blurb for my upcoming superhero novel, and I completely forgot to post it here as well. What do you all think? Vicious critiques are encouraged.

*Blurb:*

Scrawny 17-year-old Theodore Conley shocks himself and everyone else when he throws three huge bullies around like they are rag dolls.

Thus a potential superhero is born, with the capacity to be the most powerful of them all.

The problem is, Theo is a simple farm boy. He doesn't want to be a superhero. He just wants to be left alone. And, maybe to find a girlfriend. But with great power comes great danger and even greater enemies. Someone wants to make sure Theo never becomes a superhero, and he's willing to kill to do it.

Theo is forced to plunge into a frightening new world of grueling superhero boot camps, intense combat training, and deadly tests. Can Theo master his powers, stay a step ahead of the forces determined to eliminate him, and earn a superhero's cape?

Can he do it before it's too late?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Scrawny 17-year-old Theodore Conley shocks himself and everyone else when he throws three huge bullies around like they are rag dolls.


Not bad. I'd make a couple of minor tweaks, though. "17" needs to be "seventeen." I'd do this to the end of the sentence: bullies around like they are rag dolls



> Thus a potential superhero is born, with the capacity to be the most powerful of them all.


Not sure why:

- that comma is there
- this sentence is a separate paragraph
- the word "them" is needed



> The problem is, Theo is a simple farm boy.


I don't think I'd use his full name in the first paragraph and then shorten it later. Fine for introducing him in the book, but I'd stick with the nickname for the pitch.



> He doesn't want to be a superhero. He just wants to be left alone.


Does that second sentence really give the reader any new information?



> And, maybe to find a girlfriend.


Ditch the comma. Not needed after a conjunction.



> But with great power comes great danger and even greater enemies. Someone wants to make sure Theo never becomes a superhero, and he's willing to kill to do it.


I'm a bit confused. He doesn't want to be a hero, and "someone" doesn't want him to become a superhero, either.

Great. Both he and "someone" are on the same page. No conflict.

Perhaps you should explain why he's becoming a superhero? Or maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding what you're trying to convey with this paragraph.



> Theo is forced to plunge into a frightening new world of grueling superhero boot camps, intense combat training, and deadly tests.


"Is plunged" is more powerful than "is forced to plunge."



> Can Theo master his powers, stay a step ahead of the forces determined to eliminate him, and earn a superhero's cape?
> 
> Can he do it before it's too late?


I hate the questions, but that's a personal preference. The name, "Theo," seems overused a bit at the end, though. Also, two consecutive sentences listed three items. I'm not sure that structural repetition is optimal.

Hope this helps!

Brian


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Brian:

As usual, your comments are so helpful! Thanks so much for the response. I've literally been tinkering with this blurb for weeks, and you managed to identify some issues I didn't spot myself. I'll be incorporating many of your suggestions.

As for you being puzzled as to why the main character needs to become a superhero, the fact you are puzzled almost certainly means that part of my blurb is poorly written. How's this instead? (Bear in mind I did not incorporate your other suggestions into the below rewrite. For now, I just wanted to make the conflict driving the novel clearer.)

*The problem is, Theo is a simple farm boy. He doesn't want to be a superhero. He just wants to be left alone. And maybe to find a girlfriend. But with great power comes great danger and even greater enemies. A supervillain wants to make sure Theo never becomes a superhero, and he's willing to kill Theo and his family to do it.

To seek vengeance for his family and to protect himself, Theo plunges into a frightening new world of grueling superhero boot camps, intense combat training, and deadly tests. Can Theo master his powers, stay a step ahead of the forces determined to eliminate him, and earn a superhero's cape?

Can he do it before it's too late?*

Anyone else have any thoughts?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> The problem is, Theo is a simple farm boy. He doesn't want to be a superhero. He just wants to be left alone. And maybe to find a girlfriend. But with great power comes great danger and even greater enemies. A supervillain wants to make sure Theo never becomes a superhero, and he's willing to kill Theo and his family to do it.
> 
> To seek vengeance for his family and to protect himself, Theo plunges into a frightening new world of grueling superhero boot camps, intense combat training, and deadly tests. Can Theo master his powers, stay a step ahead of the forces determined to eliminate him, and earn a superhero's cape?
> 
> Can he do it before it's too late?


Darius,

That is much clearer. I'd consider doing a little wordsmithing yet, but I think that addition is exactly what was missing.

Not to get too far in the weeds since you're still in the revision stage, but there is still a little bit of a disconnect going on:



> he's willing to kill Theo and his family to do it.
> 
> To seek vengeance for his family


The first sentence implies that the guy is threatening to kill Theo's family. The second implies that the guy has killed Theo's family. This probably needs to be reconciled.

Hope that helps!

Brian

BTW, I'm finally getting ready to release _Repulsive_. It'll go live on October 18. I'll do a launch thread to let everyone know how it goes.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Alawston: That was a compliment, yes. The one where the mermaid dissolves into sea foam and an immortal life of servitude? Light and happy tales it is.

Brian Foster: How do any of us write blurbs without you?  I'll look for that launch thread.

Darius:

Sorry I missed your other post. I couldn't connect to my Internet over the weekend, and my phone doesn't do KBoards. Anyway, in addition to Brian's excellent advice:

Here's your blurb as you've posted it thus far:



> Scrawny 17-year-old Theodore Conley shocks himself and everyone else when he throws three huge bullies around like they are rag dolls.
> 
> Thus a potential superhero is born, with the capacity to be the most powerful of them all.


I'd combine these two paragraphs.

Suggest changing the second sentence entirely. Thus doesn't really do much, I'd toss it. The use of "born" makes me think there's a crazy anime transformation sequence or something where he literally becomes someone else. Also, how will the supervillain of paragraph 2 know he has this capacity unless you mention the bullies are tossed around like rag dolls in some public venue, like YouTube or Twitter or a very boring news day. Maybe change the second sentence to your smoother version of "Thanks to a loser filming the whole thing on his cell phone, now everyone knows Theo has the capacity to become a powerful superhero."

Side note: I took out the "most powerful" thing just because compared to the popular movie superheroes and comic books, fighting off three guys without problems isn't that big a deal. Your novel might have the general super power level set lower, but this is the blurb and you don't have space to explain that.



> The problem is, Theo is a simple farm boy. He doesn't want to be a superhero. He just wants to be left alone. And, maybe to find a girlfriend. But with great power comes great danger and even greater enemies. Someone wants to make sure Theo never becomes a superhero, and he's willing to kill to do it.


Change up your structure. The middle of this paragraph is repetitive. How about combining some of those things? Perhaps something cooler than:

"Theo is a simple farm boy and doesn't want to be a superhero. He'd love to be left alone to continuing failing to find a girlfriend. The problem is that someone else wants to make sure Theo never becomes a superhero, and he's willing to kill to do it."



> Theo is forced to plunge into a frightening new world of grueling superhero boot camps, intense combat training, and deadly tests. Can Theo master his powers, stay a step ahead of the forces determined to eliminate him, and earn a superhero's cape?
> 
> Can he do it before it's too late?


I like this part. You might consider adding "More importantly," in front of "Can he do..." Best of luck! I've got to get some time in on my own blurb rewrite so you can wreak horrible vengeance on it.

Anyway, prawn, grain of salt and a snack, all that.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Brian and Karen:

Thanks so much for your thoughts on my blurb. I've gotten some awesome feedback from you and others that I'll be incorporating into the final version. And Brian, I'm glad to hear _Repulsive_ will be going live soon. I've been stalking its Createspace page ever since you put it up.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

I'm planning my launch, and I find that my head is swimming. Thought I'd post here so y'all can tell me if I'm crazy or missed something, etc.

First controversial decision: I'm launching at full price (4.99). This decision obviously runs counter to the generally accepted board wisdom and is probably a huge mistake. When I first joined the board about a year and a half ago, it seemed like this was being touted as a valid path (though I was new at the time, so I may have misunderstood) - launch book 1 at full price, discount it when book 2 comes out and promote, rinse and repeat for each book in the series. Nowadays, it seems like everyone does the same thing with launching at a discount even without the second book out, which probably means that's the way to fly. Regardless, though, I'm going to try it my way and see what happens.

EDIT: After posting this, my resolve wavered on the whole full price deal. I started a separate thread for advice on that topic.

Launch Plan:

Paperback version of the book is live now, and ARCs have been sent out. 3 reviews thus far (all 5 star, yay!). Hoping for 10 total prior to launch.
Run the short story prequel free for 5 days and promo the heck out of it.
FB post and organic email list (about 100 subscribers) the first day
Non organic mega 2000 subscriber email list second day
Start Amazon keyword ads third day. Run for about 3 weeks.
Start Amazon product ads fourth day. Run for about 3 weeks.
Start FB ads the following Monday. Run for about 3 weeks.

Reading back through Nick's launch advice thread, he also mentions the idea of teaming with other authors and having them promote your release to their email lists. If anyone is interested in doing this, I'd be more than willing to reciprocate for your next new release.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

Brian


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## Keith Soares (Jan 9, 2014)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> Last week, I was on the Self-Publishing Roundtable to talk about the superhero genre and how to succeed in it. You can watch or listen to the episode here (note: for those who don't know, Lucas Flint is my pen name): http://selfpublishingroundtable.com/sprt-160-lets-talk-superheroes-with-author-lucas-flint/


Timothy

I've seen your novels connected to the also-bought section of my (YA superhero) John Black series for some time now, but I didn't realize you were on KBoards due to the pen name. Glad to hear of your success and the interview was quite interesting.

I have no idea how you pump out so many books - 1 per month - but great job on that! I'm unfortunately more in the 1-per-year category. Working to improve that. I released book 2 in my series in July, and I'm already 1/3 through the follow up. For me, that's a pretty major step.

You have a great set of connected covers, which I commend you about. That's got to really help your sell-through.

Best,
K.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> MJ's right about the genre being in its infancy, so there aren't really a lot of well-established tropes. There seems to be a lot of crossover between popular superhero books and urban fantasy, though. So maybe look at some of those in addition to checking out the successful superhero books.


I started my UF series as UF, but pretty quickly I noticed I was dropping in more superhero type references and tropes, so once I had to get the second book ready for release, I added superhero as a keyword. The second book is more superhero-y than the first, and the third will be even more so, and I'll likely keep playing with the UF/SH blending as the series moves on.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Jim Johnson said:


> I started my UF series as UF, but pretty quickly I noticed I was dropping in more superhero type references and tropes, so once I had to get the second book ready for release, I added superhero as a keyword. The second book is more superhero-y than the first, and the third will be even more so, and I'll likely keep playing with the UF/SH blending as the series moves on.


That's why I'm billing my Arca series as "superhero urban fantasy"... Book 1, _Super_, is basically the origin story. Book 2, _Human _ (WIP), adds masks and spandex (that should make Brian Foster happier  ), but also touches on supers who have urban fantasy-style powers, such as were-whatevers, vamps, and witches. That supernatural underground is starting, you know? Book 3 (Working Title: _Power _) continues the trend. I think Book 4 (Working Title: _Hero _) might even have a cape on the cover. We'll see how it looks when I get to that one.

One of the things I love about superhero stories is you can write so many different types of story within a genre. My main series will be sticking pretty close to superhero urban fantasy with some side trips into action/adventure of course, but I've got one short story that qualifies more as a mystery (Working Title: _Hound _) and might end up holiday-themed, and another that adds more sci-fi with a minor alien invasion (Working Title: _Newbies _), and a third that's a holiday version of the super urban fantasy thing (_Pie_). There's an unnamed Halloween novella too, but it doesn't really count until it's solid enough for a name.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> that should make Brian Foster happier


Yes. Yes it does!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Let's try this blurb thing again. Here's the latest. Short is not my forte. 

Death? Acceptable risk. Taxes? No problem. Broken magical cutlery of mass destruction? Bad, very bad. 

Following a brief foray into the world of superpowered vigilantism, extreme sports enthusiast and halfhearted tax preparer Zita Garcia has been trying to return to normalcy. She’s willing to hide her shiny new abilities since the alternatives include trouble for her family and a life as a literal lab rat. 

Unfortunately, the world’s in an uproar over the return of super powers. Supervillains are searching for the pieces of an ancient magic knife, fueling nasty anti-super protests and hurting innocents. Her best friends are barely talking to her, and one of them stands in the path of the violent hunt for the stupid bread knife.

Zita better dig out that mask fast.

Human is the second in the Arca superhero urban fantasy series, but can be read as a standalone. As a movie, Human would be rated "R" for immoderate language, lame sexual innuendo, and comic book violence.  

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

I like your attitude and tone, it makes me want to read the book. Also, the humor. I love your brand of sarcasm. You might consider changing 'shiny' to 'shapeshifting' so 'literal' will make more sense. Otherwise, if people haven't read the first one could be turned off by it. Also, and this may be because I haven't read the first one, I don't get the reference to 'dig out that mask'. If it's a literal mask she wears, I would say 'her mask' instead of 'that mask'. While writing this I realised you meant superhero mask (duh). Still, if you change it to her mask it will make more sense. The only other thing, and I get what you're doing with the titles, is the title. 'Human' doesn't really tell me anything about the book. 'Super' is awesome. It immediately tells me what the book is about. It looks like you want them to be Super-Human next to each other, but perhaps 'Hero' would work better.

Now, I'm going to go buy _Super _and read it, because it sounds awesome. Good luck with the second one.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Let's try this blurb thing again. Here's the latest. Short is not my forte.
> 
> Death? Acceptable risk. Taxes? No problem. Broken magical cutlery of mass destruction? Bad, very bad.
> 
> ...


I like this blurb much more than the one you ran past us a month or so ago. However, I would change "one of them stands in the path of the violent hunt for the stupid bread knife" to simply "for the knife." The words "stupid bread" take away some of the oomph of the sentence imho.

As for the title Human, now that WestofCassy mentions it, I agree that a title that signals the genre more appropriately would be better if you're not totally wedded to the current title.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks, Darius and WestofCassy! Anyone else? Brian? 

I'll probably run with most of your suggested changes. Once I nail down this blurb, it's going up in the next day or two, next to the cover that I posted yesterday or Saturday. 

WestofCassy, good catch on the title linking. I've always planned to release a boxed set so the titles would be visible next to each other.

Title's pretty set and each title plays toward theme. Book 1 as the origin story was all about "Super" plus a hint of her attitude toward it. If it makes you feel better, Book 3's tentative working title is "Power" and Book 4 is almost definitely "Hero." Those are good thoughts on title though, and as I go, I'll definitely try to remember it.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

Maybe you all can answer a question for me. I'm thinking of launching a series in Superheros. I do like to read the books. The Ex series, Confessions of a D-list, and Wearing the Cape, are some of my favorites. However, when I go to the section on Superheroes I see a lot of UF, a little erotica, and very, very few straight up Superhero novels. What's going on?


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## Johnny Dracula (Feb 20, 2015)

Does it count if I was the ghostwriter for a superhero novel?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Somehow totally missed this post when I read through kboards this morning ...



> Death? Acceptable risk. Taxes? No problem. Broken magical cutlery of mass destruction? Bad, very bad.


I like the spirit of this. Minor quibble, though: For your sliding scale of concerns, I would think you'd want to go Easy -> Not bad -> Difficult. The feels like Moderate -> Easy -> Difficult. Might want to reconsider either the wording or order or the items you're comparing to that last one.

Did any of that make any sense, btw? I'm not sure it came out clearly, but off the top of my head, I can't seem to think of a better way to explain myself.



> Following a brief foray into the world of superpowered vigilantism, extreme sports enthusiast and halfhearted tax preparer Zita Garcia has been trying to return to normalcy. She's willing to hide her shiny new abilities since the alternatives include trouble for her family and a life as a literal lab rat.


Not sure of my punctuation rules, but does "Zita Garcia" need to be set off in commas in this instance?

I hate "has been trying." Has tried? Has attempted?

I also tend to avoid repeating prepositional phrases. I wouldn't have chosen "to return to normalcy," but that's a purely stylistic call. Not a biggie if you think it's fine.

I'm confused about the last sentence. You told me that she's _trying _to return to normalcy. Now, you're telling me that she's _willing _to return to normalcy. I'm not sure the two are exactly synonymous. I don't know your story, but I'd imagine something like "Using her powers is just so darn tempting, though. But she has no choice. Otherwise X is going to hurt her family and Y might turn her into a literal lab rat.



> Unfortunately, the world's in an uproar over the return of super powers. Supervillains are searching for the pieces of an ancient magic knife, fueling nasty anti-super protests and hurting innocents. Her best friends are barely talking to her, and one of them stands in the path of the violent hunt for the stupid bread knife.


I'm not sure why there's an "unfortunately" here. She wants to give up being a superhero, apparently, and the world doesn't want her to be a superhero, right? Not clear how the world being in an uproar is working against her not being a superhero, which is the problem you've presented.

The second sentence makes more sense. Zita doesn't want to be a superhero, but if she doesn't become one, Bad Stuff is going to happen. This would be more clear without that first sentence.

In the last sentence, what do the best friends have to do with her decision to be a superhero or not? That's not clear.

"Stupid bread knife" is your third reference to the knife. That's a lot of references in a really short space. Just sayin'...



> Zita better dig out that mask fast.


Her mask?

Hope that helps!

Brian


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

WestofCassy said:


> Maybe you all can answer a question for me. I'm thinking of launching a series in Superheros. I do like to read the books. The Ex series, Confessions of a D-list, and Wearing the Cape, are some of my favorites. However, when I go to the section on Superheroes I see a lot of UF, a little erotica, and very, very few straight up Superhero novels. What's going on?


I think it's several things. One, I think there aren't a whole lot of people who are writing straight up superhero books, though there seem to be more of us with each passing day. Two, the use the the word "superhero" gets you into Amazon's superhero category, and I think a lot of people are using the keyword because their books involve paranormal/superpowered abilities even though their books are not conventional superhero books. Three, in some instances, there's a certain amount of book miscategorization as it's easier to hit the bestseller list in the superhero category than in certain other, more competitive, categories.

I'm curious as to what others think.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

WestofCassy said:


> Maybe you all can answer a question for me. I'm thinking of launching a series in Superheros. I do like to read the books. The Ex series, Confessions of a D-list, and Wearing the Cape, are some of my favorites. However, when I go to the section on Superheroes I see a lot of UF, a little erotica, and very, very few straight up Superhero novels. What's going on?


This has been a problem for a very long time. Apparently, Amazon's definition of "superhero book" equals "any book with a supernatural or superhuman element." And it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. I've sent enough emails back and forth to KDP to compile a book and even spoken on the phone with Amazon's KDP Executive Customer Relations rep about this issue.

Months later, the problem still persists.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Once again, Brian, you've been so helpful! (Not sarcasm) A couple comments on just a few items:



BWFoster78 said:


> ...
> Not sure of my punctuation rules, but does "Zita Garcia" need to be set off in commas in this instance?


I've got a question out to my copy editor on the commas, actually.



> ...I'm confused about the last sentence. You told me that she's _trying _to return to normalcy. Now, you're telling me that she's _willing _to return to normalcy. I'm not sure the two are exactly synonymous. I don't know your story, but I'd imagine something like "Using her powers is just so darn tempting, though. But she has no choice. Otherwise X is going to hurt her family and Y might turn her into a literal lab rat.


Willing to hide her powers is not the same as returning to her normal life... She's trying to have it all -- her old life, plus her powers, no consequences. For her, the obvious thing you do with powers is play with them, not immediately become a costumed vigilante taking on crime and bad guys.

I could try a rewrite along the lines of: Following a brief foray into the world of superpowered vigilantism, extreme sports enthusiast and halfhearted tax preparer Zita Garcia wants it all: her old life, her shiny new abilities, and none of the consequences. She's even willing to hide her powers since the alternatives mean trouble for her family and a life as a literal lab rat.



> I'm not sure why there's an "unfortunately" here. She wants to give up being a superhero, apparently, and the world doesn't want her to be a superhero, right? Not clear how the world being in an uproar is working against her not being a superhero, which is the problem you've presented.
> 
> The second sentence makes more sense. Zita doesn't want to be a superhero, but if she doesn't become one, Bad Stuff is going to happen. This would be more clear without that first sentence.
> 
> ...


I've deleted the world in an uproar since the fueling protests covers that, but added the "unfortunately" in front of the supervillains line. For me, it flows better with the "Unfortunately" to indicate that this is a problem. I added a clause to the last sentence so it's clear her friends are the ones who helped her before.

Yeah, I wanted to end at "violent hunt," but last time Darius suggested "for it." Other feedback agreed his suggestion was good. There's so many nouns in that paragraph, I have to identify what hunt. "Stupid bread" is gone though. I've varied the references a little more now though--cutlery, then dagger, then knife.

Yes, "that mask" is now "her mask". WestofCassy suggested that too. Great minds, I guess. 

Back to the obsessive blurb fiddling until I finally close my eyes and post it on my website. That usually occurs when the temptation grows too strong to turn the blurb into: "The book's awesome, and you might even like it. Buy it already. Leave good reviews."

Thanks,
Karen


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## whistlelock (Jun 30, 2015)

WestofCassy said:


> Maybe you all can answer a question for me. I'm thinking of launching a series in Superheros. I do like to read the books. The Ex series, Confessions of a D-list, and Wearing the Cape, are some of my favorites. However, when I go to the section on Superheroes I see a lot of UF, a little erotica, and very, very few straight up Superhero novels. What's going on?


I also think that a big contributor to this is the idea the superheroes belong in the comic books and not in the prose books. As much as I love superheroes and comic books, I don't think a series about them exclusively would sell well. Which is why I split the difference and went with a hard boiled detective in a world of superheroes.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

WestofCassy said:


> Maybe you all can answer a question for me. I'm thinking of launching a series in Superheros. I do like to read the books. The Ex series, Confessions of a D-list, and Wearing the Cape, are some of my favorites. However, when I go to the section on Superheroes I see a lot of UF, a little erotica, and very, very few straight up Superhero novels. What's going on?


When in doubt, blame Amazon's sorting logic, take a deep breath, and continue on with life.

Darius has a bunch of excellent points for why someone would purposefully shoot for the categories, and people do. The less scrupulous ones put their books anywhere they see a small category. He's also right that there do seem to be fewer superhero writers. They're awesome people though.  Except maybe that Diem chick. She doesn't take enough things seriously.

Amazon is a huge company that wants to make money. They're not going expend the money or man-hours to review every book manually that gets added to categories. They may not even remove truly egregious offenders as Perry Constantine pointed out. The best they will do is update how their computers sort books. Depending on authors to self-categorize is easier. I doubt they really care if something's in the wrong category unless you've got the weight of a publishing company or it's something truly offensive, like smut in a children's category.

To be honest, I'd rather have more freedom than less. Do we want Amazon analyzing each book and setting rules about the content in a category beyond metadata? We want them to distribute our books easily to our slavering hordes of adoring fan(s). We don't want Amazon saying, "Sorry, you can't be in this category. Superheroes have to wear Spandex and you haven't mentioned Spandex in this book." Even if we appeal and point to a prior book where we discuss the hero's life-threatening allergy to Spandex, that's still a lot of extra work for us and for Amazon.

Yes, it really sucks to have to compete for visibility with so many other books and stick at the top of the superhero lists. Most categories have this same problem. Visibility we can try to work on. Readers, being astute folks, realize that _Werewolf Three Way Whoopie_ (not a real title) is probably not a superhero book, and if that's what they want to read, will keep looking beyond the bestseller category list. We have to find other ways to entice them to our precious darlings.

That said, if that's what you want to write, go for it! MJ Caan said way way back in this thread that hardcore comics readers may not be the core audience, so pick the audience you want, identify your subgenre if any, and start typing. 

Disclaimer: I'm a prawn, not a doctor or a Magic Eight-Ball reader or a NYT best-selling author with a huge stable of books.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

kdiem said:


> _Werewolf Three Way Whoopie_ (not a real title)


Are you sure it isn't a title? I'm pretty sure I've seen it in _every, single category_ Amazon offers.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Following a brief foray into the world of superpowered vigilantism, extreme sports enthusiast and halfhearted tax preparer Zita Garcia wants it all: her old life, her shiny new abilities, and none of the consequences. She's even willing to hide her powers since the alternatives mean trouble for her family and a life as a literal lab rat.


I like this better as it's a lot clearer. I don't think that the colon does anything for you, though. Also, should "alternatives mean" be "alternative means?" Not sure why "alternatives" would be plural since it refers back to the single event of hiding her powers. Would "trouble for" read better as "endangering?" How about just:

Following a brief foray into the world of superpowered vigilantism, extreme sports enthusiast and halfhearted tax preparer Zita Garcia wants her old life, her shiny new abilities, and none of the consequences. She's even willing to hide her powers since the alternative means endangering her family and a life as a literal lab rat.



> "The book's awesome, and you might even like it. Buy it already. Leave good reviews."


To be honest, I might actually be more inclined to read a book that had that as the description.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

WestofCassy said:


> Are you sure it isn't a title? I'm pretty sure I've seen it in _every, single category_ Amazon offers.






BWFoster78 said:


> I like this better as it's a lot clearer. I don't think that the colon does anything for you, though. Also, should "alternatives mean" be "alternative means?" Not sure why "alternatives" would be plural since it refers back to the single event of hiding her powers. Would "trouble for" read better as "endangering?" How about just:
> 
> Following a brief foray into the world of superpowered vigilantism, extreme sports enthusiast and halfhearted tax preparer Zita Garcia wants her old life, her shiny new abilities, and none of the consequences. She's even willing to hide her powers since the alternative means endangering her family and a life as a literal lab rat.


I like that. Thanks!


> To be honest, I might actually be more inclined to read a book that had that as the description.


LOL. The author would win sympathy points with me, but I'd have to look at the preview pages before I'd buy.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

I picked up Super today, and I am thoroughly enjoying it! I love the attitude.


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

I missed this thread when I was reading through. Glad I took another glance!

I have a superhero series going right now. It starts with a psychic working for the government who mails a series of letters to change the future. After she dies, a series of events take place spinning America into a downward spiral. Children of Nostradamus, people given abilities are hunted by the government and the psychics letters begin altering the futures. Her letters bring together a small group of people in an effort to stop a rising evil. It's a dark dystopian take on superheroes.

The sequel is coming out in February. I'd love to work with some people, collaborate, cross promote, or trade ideas. I'm all ears!!


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> whistlelock said:
> 
> 
> > I also think that a big contributor to this is the idea the superheroes belong in the comic books and not in the prose books. As much as I love superheroes and comic books, I don't think a series about them exclusively would sell well. Which is why I split the difference and went with a hard boiled detective in a world of superheroes.
> ...


Definitely agree with Timothy here. In fact, I think that a straight up superhero novel would sell much better than a novel that happens to have superheroes in it. The superhero audience is searching the proper categories for those stories, not mystery or space opera (for example) for stories that maybe just happen to have superheroes in them. That audience wants a comic book/movie experience in prose form, and I and others have more than enough evidence that they exist and are quite voracious.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

WestofCassy said:


> I picked up Super today, and I am thoroughly enjoying it! I love the attitude.


Glad you liked it!  I was aiming to bring the fun in (without singing demons, a la Xander on _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_).


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

whistlelock said:


> I also think that a big contributor to this is the idea the superheroes belong in the comic books and not in the prose books. As much as I love superheroes and comic books, I don't think a series about them exclusively would sell well. Which is why I split the difference and went with a hard boiled detective in a world of superheroes.


Here's how the most recent release in my _Kid Sensation_ series performed:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #257 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superhero
#1 in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superheroes
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Metaphysical & Visionary

Suffice to say that I have found the audience for "pure" superhero novels to be broad and enthusiastic in their support of the genre. It even extends to audiobooks, where I've been blessed to discover an entirely new group of "readers" that had previously been off my radar. (By the way, the good folks at Audible were kind enough to give me some promo codes for my audiobooks, so if anyone would like a copy of _Sensation_, the first book in my Kid Sensation series, please PM me.)


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

whistlelock said:


> I also think that a big contributor to this is the idea the superheroes belong in the comic books and not in the prose books. As much as I love superheroes and comic books, I don't think a series about them exclusively would sell well. Which is why I split the difference and went with a hard boiled detective in a world of superheroes.


I wouldn't go that far. As Tim, Logan, and Kevin pointed out, they've done very well writing straight-up superhero stories.

What I have noticed though is that there seems to be a UF/superhero intersection. Meaning that superhero books that share some tropes with UF seem to be more successful than others. Superhero books focused on a single young protagonist seem to do the best.


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

KevinH said:


> Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #257 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superhero
> #1 in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superheroes
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Metaphysical & Visionary


Wow! Congratulations! Any tips or strategies on how to get superhero material in front of the right audience?


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

jeremyflagg said:


> Wow! Congratulations! Any tips or strategies on how to get superhero material in front of the right audience?


When I published my first _Kid Sensation_ book, the Superhero category that you now see on Amazon didn't even exist. Bearing that in mind, I don't know that you have to do anything in particular to get in front of the right audience because - assuming you pick the proper category for your book - the audience knows how to find you. That said, there are Facebook and Goodreads groups that are centered on comics/superheroes; you could try connecting with those. Likewise, I think there are bloggers that focus on the genre. Others may have some advice that worked for them, but personally I've probably focused more on writing the next book and building my mail list.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

KevinH said:


> Here's how the most recent release in my _Kid Sensation_ series performed:
> 
> Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #257 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superhero
> ...


Kevin,

I've read the first three books in your series. Well done! I enjoyed them a lot.

Just felt the need to tell you that. Not sure why 

Brian


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Happy December, all. What's everyone up to? How are the superheroes (and villains) treating you? It's been so quiet in here with just the masks and capes to keep me company. 

I'm almost done first draft of Arca Book 2, Human, myself. Struggling through a giant final fight scene.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

kdiem said:


> Happy December, all. What's everyone up to? How are the superheroes (and villains) treating you? It's been so quiet in here with just the masks and capes to keep me company.
> 
> I'm almost done first draft of Arca Book 2, Human, myself. Struggling through a giant final fight scene.


Hey! Catchy title for the second book ^_^ Should look nice together as thumbnails. I'm working on a project that is not really superhero, but kinda is? It's Sci-fi/cyberpunk action but it has characters that are augmented/superhuman, and the stories are told like comic books.

I'm still contemplating if I should try to market it to the superhero audience or not. People who have read it (I have it up as a web serial on www.oncegiants.com for now) have come away saying it's definitely superhero. But it doesn't really have the normal tropes of a superhero book. Whereas most superhero books seem to be about real people in a world here superheroes exist. My stuff is more, how would people in the real world, become like a superhero i.e. through technology.

I dunno, perhaps the audience of superhero and sci-fi are close enough? What do you guys think?


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

_Of Mice And Men And Sausages_ is finally live after a mostly encouraging pre-order period. Frankly I ought to have released sooner. Initial sales haven't been staggering, but I'm switching my promo attention to it next week once my Casanova campaign is done.

My plan was to have enough of book 2 done to put it up for pre-order and link from the end of book 1 before release, but that didn't happen. I need to get back in the writing habit. Badly.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm dipping my toe into superhero writing with a spinoff series from my main novels. It's going to be in serial format (episodes and seasons) on Channillo.com to help cross-promote my main series. I'm really looking forward to publishing. I just got the cover for it (in my sig) and I'm super excited.  I've already outlined Season 1 and plan to publish bite-sized pieces (as recommended by Channillo) every Tuesday once I put Episode 1 up.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Happy December, all. What's everyone up to? How are the superheroes (and villains) treating you? It's been so quiet in here with just the masks and capes to keep me company.
> 
> I'm almost done first draft of Arca Book 2, Human, myself. Struggling through a giant final fight scene.


I'm trying to finish the sequel to my book Caped. I got sidetracked last week writing the first few chapters of a new novel, the idea for which hit me like a thunderbolt and wouldn't stop nagging at me until I got those chapters down on paper. It's a supervillain heist/revenge book. It's WAAAAAY darker than my other superhero stuff. I look forward to returning to it once Caped's sequel is complete.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

Sometime in March or April, I will be releasing my first superhero novel. Right now the working title is Arsenal: Armored Superhero. I was torn on putting superhero in the title but it turns out it might be a good idea. There are a lot of books in the category that are certainly NOT superhero books. It turns out, that maybe the SH audience is having trouble figuring out that is the case. Put Superhero in subtitle, and your problem is solved!

I like to think I have a unique spin on the armored hi-tech hero, we shall see. I had a ton of fun writing it, which is a bonus. I will probably write two more if anyone buys it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

My final Vanguard book came out last week. I wasn't planning on doing any other superhero stories for a while, but now some other superhero writers and I are in the preliminary planning stages of something that will be very cool when it comes to pass.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm going to write a new standalone novel and rebrand my series next year. Too busy with other priorities right now, and have been for a while.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Team Contract said:


> Hey! Catchy title for the second book ^_^ Should look nice together as thumbnails. I'm working on a project that is not really superhero, but kinda is? It's Sci-fi/cyberpunk action but it has characters that are augmented/superhuman, and the stories are told like comic books.
> 
> I'm still contemplating if I should try to market it to the superhero audience or not. People who have read it (I have it up as a web serial on www.oncegiants.com for now) have come away saying it's definitely superhero. But it doesn't really have the normal tropes of a superhero book. Whereas most superhero books seem to be about real people in a world here superheroes exist. My stuff is more, how would people in the real world, become like a superhero i.e. through technology.
> 
> I dunno, perhaps the audience of superhero and sci-fi are close enough? What do you guys think?


Thank you for the compliment on the name. Others have suggested I change it, but the cover's done and announced (and up on the Books page of my website - www.karendiem.com/books for the curious).

Superhero can go the sci fi route, especially with a setup like you describe, provided you do enough world-building to give it the right feel for the genre you aim for. My also-boughts tend to be sci fi with the occasional superhero novel thrown in, even though I've described _Super_ as "superhero urban fantasy." Of course, I'm not a big name or huge seller, so my results could be skewed.

Any other superhero authors notice a sci fi trend in their also-boughts?


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

This had even more smileys before, but I removed some. Honest. Thanks for all the replies!
----
A. Lawston: Good luck! I had some luck with gamification to get me back in the habit of writing after I had a few bad months. 

LucasCWheeler: I love the Legacy cover. It seems more sci fi than superhero though? Could just be me or the late hour. 

TimothyCerepaka: You're trying to fill the superhero category by yourself with that writing speed, aren't you? Admit it!  

DariusBrasher: When's the sequel to Caped due out again? Would the dark supervillain tale be in the same universe as Caped and the Superhero Detective serieses? 

WestofCassy: Make sure you let everyone know here when you publish. The name is spot-on for an armored superhero book. 

PerryConstantine: Funny how a shiny new idea can change plans, isn't it? Look forward to hearing more about the Mystery Superhero Project.  

C. Rysalis: Life happens. Some things are more important than writing. Hope your other priorities all go well and you get announce a new book in 2017.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

BWFoster78 said:


> Kevin,
> 
> I've read the first three books in your series. Well done! I enjoyed them a lot.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Somehow I missed this post earlier, but I definitely appreciate the kind words and support!


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

kdiem said:


> This had even more smileys before, but I removed some. Honest. Thanks for all the replies!
> ----
> LucasCWheeler: I love the Legacy cover. It seems more sci fi than superhero though? Could just be me or the late hour.


Well, I'm glad you think that!  Star Dog Legacy is my Sci-fi main series, and the cover next to it is Star Dog: Earth's Last Shield, the spinoff set in the same multiverse with another iteration of a "Star Dog", and that's the superhero genre, but it'll have its share of sci-fi elements too. That cover admittedly looks a little wonky, but Channillo uses different sizes and thumbnails aren't as important on their site because of how they're represented. When I publish the omnibus on Amazon, I'll be tweaking that.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

I'm almost done with the first draft of my first superhero novel. I'm excited about it, but I'm going to need help shaping it to fit the genre.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> Yes, my evil plan has been revealed! Soon, I will dominate the entire superhero category and no one will be able to stop me! MWAHAHAHAHA  !


Yup. Evil laugh gives it away every time. 



David Neth said:


> I'm almost done with the first draft of my first superhero novel. I'm excited about it, but I'm going to need help shaping it to fit the genre.


Welcome to the superhero thread, David Neth.  Mind the punch - Timothy Cerepaka probably spiked it. As far as shaping, I'd suggest a Spandex-Lycra-Kevlar blend, gym time, and avoiding the wool tights (they itch).


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## Ron Tucker (Jul 16, 2012)

Hello, I'm new(ish) to kboards. I'm currently finishing up the second book in my superhero series (though my MC is technically a sidekick), which I plan on launching in April next year. Glad to find others who are writing in the superhero genre.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

kdiem said:


> TimothyCerepaka: You're trying to fill the superhero category by yourself with that writing speed, aren't you? Admit it!
> 
> DariusBrasher: When's the sequel to Caped due out again? Would the dark supervillain tale be in the same universe as Caped and the Superhero Detective serieses?


Timothy's/Lucas' production speed is why he's my secondary spirit animal. Amanda Lee is my primary one. Caped's sequel comes out late January/early February. The dark supervillain tale will be centered around Shadow, the sidekick (though she would say "partner") from the Superhero Detective Series.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Ron Tucker said:


> Hello, I'm new(ish) to kboards. I'm currently finishing up the second book in my superhero series (though my MC is technically a sidekick), which I plan on launching in April next year. Glad to find others who are writing in the superhero genre.


Cool.  Looking forward to reading it. Sidekicks, villains, heroes, that hapless guy/gal who keeps getting kidnapped, all valid in the superhero genre.



Darius Brasher said:


> Timothy's/Lucas' production speed is why he's my secondary spirit animal. Amanda Lee is my primary one. Caped's sequel comes out late January/early February. The dark supervillain tale will be centered around Shadow, the sidekick (though she would say "partner") from the Superhero Detective Series.


I wondered if you were going to do more with her. It's cool how you're building a whole interconnected universe.

Been considering a spin-off series after I get a few more Arca books out, where the MC is not Zita. That includes a Wyn novella and a detective one based around "Hound," a character introduced in _Human_


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

Any plans for an anthology or book bundles happening or does anyone want one to happen? I have a superhero book ready to go, but I would rather bundle it first before I put it on KU.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

WestofCassy said:


> Any plans for an anthology or book bundles happening or does anyone want one to happen? I have a superhero book ready to go, but I would rather bundle it first before I put it on KU.


I like what Harmon did with the latest Wearing the Cape. If someone were to put something like that together, I'd be in.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I like what Harmon did with the latest Wearing the Cape. If someone were to put something like that together, I'd be in.


I thought he wrote all those stories, were they different authors?


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I like what Harmon did with the latest Wearing the Cape. If someone were to put something like that together, I'd be in.





WestofCassy said:


> I thought he wrote all those stories, were they different authors?


According to the blurb, Harmon co-wrote one story, another author contributed one, and Seanan McGuire let someone (probably Harmon) write in her Velveteen world.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

WestofCassy said:


> Any plans for an anthology or book bundles happening or does anyone want one to happen? I have a superhero book ready to go, but I would rather bundle it first before I put it on KU.


I'd have an interest in this and I think it was mentioned before, but I believe the general consensus was that it would be a lot of work for whoever took the lead and no one really had the time to be the vanguard.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Hey folks,
I've been on KBoards detox for sometime and just trying to get work done.

Lee and I have hit pause on our Steel City Heroes series. We're letting the trilogy simmer and seeing if there is interest. Since then we have been working a set of thriller novels that are fast paced with a hint of scifi (the MC could EASILY be positioned as a Super, but we've realized that our books are more gritty than the category sustains).

We have a YA postapoc/dystopian in the crock pot. This has become a bit of our passion project. We've worked it really hard and are in no rush to bring it to market. After paying for a developmental edit, we decided to reconstruct the first act. Really good fun.

And, we're also involved in the super secret project that Perry mentioned. (OK, not all that super secret, a bunch of us were pulling it together over on the FB group...)

It's been a really interesting year as we have wrestled with craft and market.

One last thing though... I wanted to see if anyone is interested in a multiauthor audio promo. I know there aren't a slew of us indies in audible, but enough that our new project (audiobookaccess.com) can run a decent one with some motivated authors. So as not to clutter things here, check out the author interest page for how it works: http://audiobookaccess.com/author-interest/

Cheers,
CM


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

I just finished my last project with a specific, external, deadline. If we can get ten or more people interested in a bundle, then I would be interested in taking lead on it. I want to start leading bundles a few times a year and this seems like a good way to get my feet wet. I'll keep an eye out here and see who is interested.


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

Well, I finished the third and final installment of my Sh trilogy, Earth's First. I have to say, I have learned a lot over the last couple of years, and intend to put it all to use with my next series (UF). I will say that finishing the series and then promoting, seems to have worked out well. Sales are up and my page reads are growing every day. Next up I"m going to try some Amazon ads and just let them run..that plus another promotion I have lined up for next weekend will hopefully cause all three books to take off. I"ll keep you updated!https://www.amazon.com/Earths-First-Book-Three-Rises-ebook/dp/B01N4HOWJI/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Z1CF33P5MHPMA61P3SFG


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## TJLand (Dec 7, 2016)

LoveloveloveLOVE this thread. 

I recently self-published my second standalone LGBTQ superhero/supervillain romance (/comedy/action adventure-type thing). Had an irresponsible amount of fun writing it. https://www.amazon.com/Good-Gold-Villainous-Love-Story-ebook/dp/B01MQYYZV4










Already working on the next one. Think I might make it M/M instead of poly for a change of pace.

Also wrote a silly 1K short featuring the main characters on my blog: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/14477763-1k-supervillain-story-for-new-year-tie-in-to-good-as-gold


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Mjcaan said:


> Well, I finished the third and final installment of my Sh trilogy, Earth's First. I have to say, I have learned a lot over the last couple of years, and intend to put it all to use with my next series (UF). I will say that finishing the series and then promoting, seems to have worked out well. Sales are up and my page reads are growing every day. Next up I"m going to try some Amazon ads and just let them run..that plus another promotion I have lined up for next weekend will hopefully cause all three books to take off. I"ll keep you updated!https://www.amazon.com/Earths-First-Book-Three-Rises-ebook/dp/B01N4HOWJI/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Z1CF33P5MHPMA61P3SFG


What are your primary promos with EF?


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Alright, Ima we have a Superhero category option in the dropdown. If anyone is interested in multiauthor promo for audio, go check it out here. We need at least eight to roll it out: http://audiobookaccess.com/author-interest/


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm excited to say that my Channillo-based Superhero series went live today with episode 1:1. This is my first time experimenting with serials as well, so I'm interested to see where it goes. All of the proceeds are going to a charity I used to volunteer for, so that's doubly exciting. I'm going to post new episodes/parts on Tuesdays. The only reason this one happened on a Thursday was that it's a birthday gift to myself.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

LucasCWheeler said:


> I'm excited to say that my Channillo-based Superhero series went live today with episode 1:1. This is my first time experimenting with serials as well, so I'm interested to see where it goes. All of the proceeds are going to a charity I used to volunteer for, so that's doubly exciting. I'm going to post new episodes/parts on Tuesdays. The only reason this one happened on a Thursday was that it's a birthday gift to myself.


Congrats, good luck, and happy birthday! 



WestofCassy said:


> I just finished my last project with a specific, external, deadline. If we can get ten or more people interested in a bundle, then I would be interested in taking lead on it. I want to start leading bundles a few times a year and this seems like a good way to get my feet wet. I'll keep an eye out here and see who is interested.


Dependent on the conditions attached and dates, I would consider doing a short story for an anthology.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Congrats, good luck, and happy birthday!


Thank you.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

Hello all. I hope everyone's doing well. I want to ask about two things.

*Newsletter Swap*

_Trials_, the sequel to my book _Caped_, comes out February 13. To help promote it, I'm doing a 99 cents Kindle Countdown on _Caped_ starting February 13. Is anyone willing to promote _Caped_ in their superhero/urban fantasy/fantasy/scifi newsletter on any day from Feb. 13 through Feb. 18? If you're also willing to mention _Trials_ the same day, that would be awesome too, though I'm fine if you only have room for _Caped_. I will return the favor by promoting a book or two of yours when my newsletter goes out again on Feb. 26. My newsletter is populated with superhero prose readers. Right now I have a little over 1,800 subscribers with a high click/open rate. Let me know.

*Blurb Help*

On the subject of _Trials_, what do you all think of this draft blurb?

*Superheroes aren't born. They're forged in the Trials.*

Theodore Conley's troubles are just beginning after he cripples the supervillain who murdered his family. Theo must now endure the Hero Trials, a series of vicious battles, deadly tests, and gladiatorial contests each potential superhero must prevail in to get a superhero's license. On other planets and in other dimensions, Theo fights superhumans, his personal demons, and even his friends in a struggle to earn the hero's license he needs to hunt down the dark forces behind the supervillain who killed his family.

Little does Theo know the murderous forces who destroyed his family are back and are trying to sabotage Theo's efforts. They are more determined than ever to stop him from fulfilling his potential to become the world's greatest superhero.

Due to Theo's powerful and mysterious enemies, the question is not only if Theo will pass the Trials.

The question is if he'll even survive.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Darius Brasher said:


> Hello all. I hope everyone's doing well. I want to ask about two things.
> 
> *Newsletter Swap*
> 
> ...


My list was built mainly from my epic fantasy series and hasn't crossed over very well. That being said, I'll send out a notice for you on one of those days. No need to reciprocate, though, because I doubt you'll see more than a handful of sales from it.

If you don't mind, though, message me when it gets closer so that I remember


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Darius Brasher said:


> Hello all. I hope everyone's doing well. I want to ask about two things.
> 
> *Newsletter Swap*
> 
> _Trials_, the sequel to my book _Caped_, comes out February 13. To help promote it, I'm doing a 99 cents Kindle Countdown on _Caped_ starting February 13. Is anyone willing to promote _Caped_ in their superhero/urban fantasy/fantasy/scifi newsletter on any day from Feb. 13 through Feb. 18? If you're also willing to mention _Trials_ the same day, that would be awesome too, though I'm fine if you only have room for _Caped_. I will return the favor by promoting a book or two of yours when my newsletter goes out again on Feb. 26. My newsletter is populated with superhero prose readers. Right now I have a little over 1,800 subscribers with a high click/open rate. Let me know.


I'll mention it to my list, but my next newsletter will go out on the 3rd... maybe the 10th at latest. (covers list's ears) Also, my list is teeny-tiny by kboards standards, so you won't get much benefit.(uncovers list's ears) My list people are awesome though. Most even open my newsletters to snicker at my delusions.

You don't have to promote me in exchange. If you do anyway, that's lovely, but it'd honestly help more if you'd promote me in May, when my book 2 is coming out.



Darius Brasher said:


> *Blurb Help*
> 
> On the subject of _Trials_, what do you all think of this draft blurb?
> 
> ...


My prawny opinions on your blurb. Please take with a grain of salt and some fries/your snack of choice:

1. Poor Theo.

2. I don't see why anyone would root for Theo based on this. How is revenge heroic, especially if he fights his friends to do it and has already crippled someone? Perhaps add a hint of some heroism somewhere?

3. It's a mix of tones. The bureaucratic overtones of the repeated license, the throwback to campy superhero stuff phrase "Little does Theo know," versus the vicious, deadly, and gladiatorial stuff mixed with the repeated "murder." I'd suggest going back through and evening it out.

4. It's kind of a jump (if you don't know the story) from revenge in the first paragraph to the world's greatest superhero in the second.

5. If the Trials are normally deadly, how is it a surprise that the question is if he'll survive?

All that said, I do like how you teased some of the things he'll face and managed a quick summary of some backstory.

Here's a quick, crappy rewrite to get across some of these ideas.

*Superheroes aren't born. They're forged in the Trials.*

Theodore Conley's troubles are just beginning. While he defeated the villain who murdered his family and made it through basic training to be a superhero, Theo must now endure the Hero Trials to prove his worth and keep his powers. The deadly Trials require Theo to triumph through a series of vicious battles and tests against other superhumans, his personal demons, and even his friends. Forced to fight on alien worlds and other dimensions, he could die, lose use of his powers, or worse--never find the dark forces who set up his family for destruction.

His murderous enemies have no problems adding deceit and sabotage to the gauntlet the novice hero must face. With their additions, the question is no longer just if Theo will pass the Trials.

The question is if he'll survive at all.


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> My list was built mainly from my epic fantasy series and hasn't crossed over very well. That being said, I'll send out a notice for you on one of those days. No need to reciprocate, though, because I doubt you'll see more than a handful of sales from it.
> 
> If you don't mind, though, message me when it gets closer so that I remember


Thanks so much! I'll definitely remind you. I'll send you a message the week before. Because I'm well known for disregarding what people say, I'm going to mention Repulsive in my late February newsletter since I enjoyed it and I suspect my mailing list will too.  Unless you really don't want me to, in which case I won't.



kdiem said:


> I'll mention it to my list, but my next newsletter will go out on the 3rd... maybe the 10th at latest. (covers list's ears) Also, my list is teeny-tiny by kboards standards, so you won't get much benefit.(uncovers list's ears) My list people are awesome though. Most even open my newsletters to snicker at my delusions.
> 
> You don't have to promote me in exchange. If you do anyway, that's lovely, but it'd honestly help more if you'd promote me in May, when my book 2 is coming out.


_Trials_' preorder will be up on Amazon early next week. Since your newsletter goes out before the 13th, I'd love it if you could mention the preorder. As for not promoting you in exchange, pish-tosh I say. I'd be delighted to promote your book in May. Just give me a heads up and it shall be done.

As for your blurb suggestions, you've made some great points and I really like some of your language. When I'm less bleary-eyed tomorrow I'll take a stab at re-working the blurb.

Thanks Brian and Karen! You guys rock! If anyone else has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Wish I had a big enough list to participate. I *think* my sci-fi adventure might appeal to some superhero readers, but alas I have only 20 people and my series wont launch till may D:


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## skylarker1 (Aug 21, 2016)

C. Michael Wells said:


> In general, I think the biggest issue with superhero's in written form is that most superheroes are somewhat boing and do not progress... I haven't come across that type of book in the Superhero genre, but I hope it comes a long. I definitely feel it is a genre untapped.


Have you tried GRRMartin's 'Wild Card' books?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Thanks so much! I'll definitely remind you. I'll send you a message the week before. Because I'm well known for disregarding what people say, I'm going to mention Repulsive in my late February newsletter since I enjoyed it and I suspect my mailing list will too.  Unless you really don't want me to, in which case I won't.


That would be great. Thanks!


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## DmGuay (Aug 17, 2016)

So... I consider my first book a super hero origin story. 

Tell me if y'all disagree. Here is my blurb:

Seventeen-year-old Jess Flowers sees the killer in visions. He’s a shadow, stalking Salt Creek, striking down the helpless, slaughtering with fire and lightning. After she finds the bloated body of a teenage victim at Whispering Falls, Jess fears the vision of her own violent death will come true.

To survive, she must learn to control the newfound powers surging within her. Jess is the new kid in Salt Creek, an isolated town in rural southern Ohio with a ferociously guarded secret. A handful of people in Salt Creek have been granted skills that seem to defy the laws of physics. Jess is one of them. Billy, an outcast with an unsettling past, is the only one willing to explain her transformation.

As the body count ticks higher, a growing pile of evidence links Billy to the crimes. Is he guilty? Her heart says no, but Jess doesn’t have much time to piece together the clues and identify the killer before it’s her turn to die.

**


My goal, when writing it, was to tell a super hero origin story that felt very real, very grounded in reality, like it could be happening right now. I feel I have achieved that. The story is strongly grounded in place, character driven, etc. But, everyone is telling me it is a paranormal book, because the MC has 'powers.' (There are no witches, vampires, were-anythings, or shifters in this book. All people with 'super powers' although they do not call them that.)

To officially qualify as a super hero tale does it have to be people in capes, comic-book style? I don't want to be the guy who puts it in the wrong category in Amazon!

Your opinion would be appreciated!


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

If your 'powers' are supernatural in nature, and your characters aren't costumed, then you're looking at more a psychics and mysticism than superheroes.

This is from Wikipedia:



> In modern popular fiction, a superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of costumed heroic character who possesses supernatural or superhuman powers and who is dedicated to fighting crime, protecting the public, and usually battling supervillains.


So yes, if they aren't wearing a costume or uniform and fighting evil, or live in a world where such a thing happens, you won't likely draw in the crowd of readers who are looking for Superhero tales. If you look at the category on Amazon it is dominated by UF because it is a niche. This doesn't mean you have to change your book, but if you're not calling them superheroes, they don't dress like superheroes, and the world doesn't have superheroes, then they're not.

Having said that, the book sounds awesome.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

WestofCassy said:


> If your 'powers' are supernatural in nature, and your characters aren't costumed, then you're looking at more a psychics and mysticism than superheroes.
> 
> This is from Wikipedia:
> 
> ...


Seconding WestofCassy.

For anecdotal evidence: My book touched the superhero stuff but didn't go into it in depth. It didn't include the uniforms at all. Result? I got feedback that it didn't seem as superhero. Book 2 picks up the Spandex and masks, as was planned even before the feedback, so I am hoping for a better reception. With snacks. Because snacks.


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## DmGuay (Aug 17, 2016)

Thanks for the insight guys! Looks like I should stick to paranormal, lest the angry villagers come for me!


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## skylarker1 (Aug 21, 2016)

kdiem said:


> Dependent on the conditions attached and dates, I would consider doing a short story for an anthology.


I could contribute a superhero novella to a bundle.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

DmGuay said:


> Thanks for the insight guys! Looks like I should stick to paranormal, lest the angry villagers come for me!


I don't think they would be angry, but you have to remember. Until Marvel started making awesome movies, everyone treated superheroes like a red-headed step child. They were campy, or comic relief, but mostly just stupid. The reason being is that the people making them didn't respect the source material. People who love superhero stories want superheroes. They want them unapologetically and they want them treated with respect. If you write superheroes, don't try to be clever like Watchmen or subtle, we want capes and tights and the whole bit. Or maybe it is just what I want after reading comics my whole life


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

WestofCassy said:


> I don't think they would be angry, but you have to remember. Until Marvel started making awesome movies, everyone treated superheroes like a red-headed step child. They were campy, or comic relief, but mostly just stupid. The reason being is that the people making them didn't respect the source material. People who love superhero stories want superheroes. They want them unapologetically and they want them treated with respect. If you write superheroes, don't try to be clever like Watchmen or subtle, we want capes and tights and the whole bit. Or maybe it is just what I want after reading comics my whole life


I used to think my stuff could pass in the superhero genre, but after looking at what's being written out there I'm not so sure.

I believe there is a subtle difference between superpowered comic book characters (Like the marvel Avengers films) and superheroes (Watchmen, X-men et el). The stuff I write is more akin to avengers. Super powered characters, but the plot does not revolved totally around that. Whereas, I find that in superhero novels the stories are all geared toward the idea of being an actual "Superhero" or more specifically, being a "hero" with superpowers. Most seem to be YA coming of age stories in worlds where Superheroes are actually called "Supers" and are regulated. Like x-men.

That being said, do you guys who write in the fields see any latitude for stories more like the avengers rather than x-men first class?


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Hi, folks, I'm new here but I thought I would jump in. I am about to submit my first superhero novel to Kindle Scout. I love superheroes and have been reading comics my whole life. I was thrilled when the genre picked up. 

Having said that, I'm not sure I see the difference. Both Avengers and X-men are superheroes. They tell different stories and have different tones, but they are both superheroes. If you mean tone wise, then look at the Micheal Vey series versus Wearing the Cape. Cape is more Avengers and Vey is more X-men. There is room for all kinds of superheroes, either coming of age or established veterans. I think in general, YA sells more books in ANY genre. Either way, The Avengers and X-men are both superheroes.


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## FelissaEly (Jan 15, 2017)

So my husband is currently writing a series he's titled _The Fiasco_ - current blurb for book 1 _The Fiasco in News_ (critiques/comments welcome!):

When super villains hand you lemons, make lemon lasers. When disaster hits, feel free to do what I do; hang your head while waiting for the tight wearing crowd to arrive and muck everything up as they always do. That only works if your super power is the same one I have. I'm a walking magnet for super-powered problems. They can't kill me yet a lack of super strength makes it hard to fight back.

I've spent the last few years trying to find a stable place in life only to bounce from location to location like the embodiment of some mythical plague. Government sponsored websites track me to warn people if I get too close. A good number of heroes and villains alike know me by name. Mole people have my likeness on statues as a warning. The Alice - a perfectly insane knife wielding murderer of Wonderland - thinks we're dating.

This new guy, Ted, a fake part-time villain who's in it for the ratings and excitement, wants me to be a field correspondent for his news blog, his offer sounds good. If I can't beat 'em, expose 'em. The problem is he has no idea what my daily life is like. No one really does but they'll learn.

Hang on, because this insanity is my world and nonsense never stops.

***​
The release is scheduled for May/June and is a work in progress, he informed me he has at least 3-4 more chapters to wrap up and complete book 1. If anyone is interested in checking out the chapters, the very, very rough drafts are posted on his website (use link in my sig) we would greatly appreciate any insight, comments, questions, concerns... he says it falls within the superhero genre but I'd love to get outside opinions!

Thanks!

Sam


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Team Contract said:


> I used to think my stuff could pass in the superhero genre, but after looking at what's being written out there I'm not so sure.
> 
> I believe there is a subtle difference between superpowered comic book characters (Like the marvel Avengers films) and superheroes (Watchmen, X-men et el). The stuff I write is more akin to avengers. Super powered characters, but the plot does not revolved totally around that. Whereas, I find that in superhero novels the stories are all geared toward the idea of being an actual "Superhero" or more specifically, being a "hero" with superpowers. Most seem to be YA coming of age stories in worlds where Superheroes are actually called "Supers" and are regulated. Like x-men.
> 
> That being said, do you guys who write in the fields see any latitude for stories more like the avengers rather than x-men first class?


I'm not quite sure I understand your definitions here. Throughout their entire existence, the Avengers have actually had more stories focused on being a hero with superpowers, whereas the X-Men stories traditionally tend to focus more on the notion of superpowers as a metaphor for being an outsider and the social and political ramifications that come from that. And then Watchmen is not really superheroic at all--it's a total deconstruction of superheroes.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I'm not quite sure I understand your definitions here. Throughout their entire existence, the Avengers have actually had more stories focused on being a hero with superpowers, whereas the X-Men stories traditionally tend to focus more on the notion of superpowers as a metaphor for being an outsider and the social and political ramifications that come from that. And then Watchmen is not really superheroic at all--it's a total deconstruction of superheroes.


Hey Perry,

I'm referring more to the setting or universe of the stories and how the world reacts to the superpowered characters.

For example, in the avengers universe, no one calls each other "superheroes". Whereas in watchmen/X-men being a superhero/mutant is an actual label. What I'm saying is, I tend to find the superhero genre (as novels) tends to lean toward that kind of world that has superheroes as a label. My question was, would this same fan base perhaps also enjoy say a sci-fi action story where the characters are power enough to be considered superhumans and have comicbook like adventures? Or are they really more looking for those superhero labels as a trope.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Team Contract said:


> Hey Perry,
> 
> I'm referring more to the setting or universe of the stories and how the world reacts to the superpowered characters.
> 
> For example, in the avengers universe, no one calls each other "superheroes". Whereas in watchmen/X-men being a superhero/mutant is an actual label. What I'm saying is, I tend to find the superhero genre (as novels) tends to lean toward that kind of world that has superheroes as a label.


I wouldn't use that as a definition for superhero stories. For one, I'm pretty sure no one uses the superhero label in the X-Men films. If you're going to use mutant as a substitute, then shouldn't also words like super soldier and enhanced, which are used in the Marvel films, apply as well? And just using the word superhero wouldn't be enough for me to consider it a trope. Pretty sure no one in Superman: The Movie used the word superhero. Ditto for the Batman films. Possibly also the Spider-Man films.

When it comes to superhero tropes, the Marvel films are actually far more closer to the traditional conventions of the superhero genre than the X-Men films and Watchmen. The way Watchmen uses the superhero label is in a way that fuels the deconstruction of the genre.



Team Contract said:


> My question was, would this same fan base perhaps also enjoy say a sci-fi action story where the characters are power enough to be considered superhumans and have comicbook like adventures? Or are they really more looking for those superhero labels as a trope.


I don't think anyone looks for the superhero label as a trope. I can't imagine a comic book fan throwing up his hands during Avengers and going, "what the hell?! Not one use of the superhero label! Screw this movie!" If anything, the vast majority of comic book fans tend to be far more approving of the Marvel films than the X-Men films.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I wouldn't use that as a definition for superhero stories. For one, I'm pretty sure no one uses the superhero label in the X-Men films. If you're going to use mutant as a substitute, then shouldn't also words like super soldier and enhanced, which are used in the Marvel films, apply as well? And just using the word superhero wouldn't be enough for me to consider it a trope. Pretty sure no one in Superman: The Movie used the word superhero. Ditto for the Batman films. Possibly also the Spider-Man films.
> 
> When it comes to superhero tropes, the Marvel films are actually far more closer to the traditional conventions of the superhero genre than the X-Men films and Watchmen. The way Watchmen uses the superhero label is in a way that fuels the deconstruction of the genre.
> 
> I don't think anyone looks for the superhero label as a trope. I can't imagine a comic book fan throwing up his hands during Avengers and going, "what the hell?! Not one use of the superhero label! Screw this movie!" If anything, the vast majority of comic book fans tend to be far more approving of the Marvel films than the X-Men films.


I'm only using the movies as examples. Of course those are obviously superhero fare. I'm asking more about the novels you find under the superhero section in Amazon. Speaking on what I've heard in a podcast featuring Lucas Flint, where he deconstructed the superhero genre and wrote to market, he describes the tropes are coming of age stories that feature super powers. Which to me is very different than say Captain America. My stuff is more akin to Captain America/Supersoldiers and so on. So that's why I'm asking people who write in the genre: do readers actually want this kind of stuff? Or are the tropes Lucas Flint was writing to (successfully I might ad) the stuff that they love?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Team Contract said:


> I'm only using the movies as examples. Of course those are obviously superhero fare. I'm asking more about the novels you find under the superhero section in Amazon. Speaking on what I've heard in a podcast featuring Lucas Flint, where he deconstructed the superhero genre and wrote to market, he describes the tropes are coming of age stories that feature super powers. Which to me is very different than say Captain America. My stuff is more akin to Captain America/Supersoldiers and so on. So that's why I'm asking people who write in the genre: do readers actually want this kind of stuff? Or are the tropes Lucas Flint was writing to (successfully I might ad) the stuff that they love?


Okay now this makes more sense as a clear distinction. And the answer to that is Lucas was absolutely right, the most successful superhero novels seem to be the ones that have crossover appeal to the young adult market, which usually means a young character (teens or college-aged) gaining powers as the main focus (ensemble books don't work as well). Think Harry Potter with costumes instead of school uniforms. Most of the fans of the non-coming-of-age superhero stuff tend to get their fix from comics, movies, and TV.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> Okay now this makes more sense as a clear distinction. And the answer to that is Lucas was absolutely right, the most successful superhero novels seem to be the ones that have crossover appeal to the young adult market, which usually means a young character (teens or college-aged) gaining powers as the main focus (ensemble books don't work as well). Think Harry Potter with costumes instead of school uniforms. Most of the fans of the non-coming-of-age superhero stuff tend to get their fix from comics, movies, and TV.


Thank Perry, this is kind of what I suspected/feared. My beta readers keep saying, wow very superhero-ish, but I'm like... yeah *I* think so too, but I don't think its the kind of superhero the reader market is looking for.

BTW Perry, I'm really impressed with your auto-responder email set up and marketing strats. Does it keep landing you sales for your older titles?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Team Contract said:


> BTW Perry, I'm really impressed with your auto-responder email set up and marketing strats. Does it keep landing you sales for your older titles?


A few. The emails I've got in my current autoresponder sequence begin with the free first-in-series books. I've gotten a lot of downloads on those (so much so that Bookfunnel warned me I was going to go over my monthly limit), but the emails pushing the other books in the series haven't started going out just yet.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Team Contract said:


> Thank Perry, this is kind of what I suspected/feared. My beta readers keep saying, wow very superhero-ish, but I'm like... yeah *I* think so too, but I don't think its the kind of superhero the reader market is looking for.
> 
> BTW Perry, I'm really impressed with your auto-responder email set up and marketing strats. Does it keep landing you sales for your older titles?


Just because this is what does best, doesn't make it the only thing people want. If you look at the Superhero sub-category, what is missing are covers that say "this is a superhero book, not an urban fantasy". You don't have to call people superheroes, but you do need them to BE superheroes. Hiding from the label is what kills a lot of books and movies. Embrace the label. Coming of age is all well and good, but there is a market for all kinds of superhero fun, as long as they are superheroes and not something like urban fantasy. You don't have to call them superheroes in your book, just make it clear they are superheroes. Plenty of stuff in the genre sells fantastic that isn't a coming of age story.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jeffery H said:


> Just because this is what does best, doesn't make it the only thing people want. If you look at the Superhero sub-category, what is missing are covers that say "this is a superhero book, not an urban fantasy". You don't have to call people superheroes, but you do need them to BE superheroes. Hiding from the label is what kills a lot of books and movies. Embrace the label. Coming of age is all well and good, but there is a market for all kinds of superhero fun, as long as they are superheroes and not something like urban fantasy. You don't have to call them superheroes in your book, just make it clear they are superheroes. Plenty of stuff in the genre sells fantastic that isn't a coming of age story.


Well, yes and no. If you want the best shot at making a series that sells well, it pays to look at the ones that are selling well. And by and large in the superhero genre, that is coming-of-age stuff. Covers that say "this is superhero, not urban fantasy" alone aren't enough. My original cover for Vanguard was VERY superhero. So much in fact that I got complaints from readers saying that they thought it was a comic book and were disappointed to find it was a novel. When I changed the covers, they still said superhero, but they were also done in a style that still said, "this isn't a comic book." And even still, I know those covers would be more successful if the covers were more like the ones used by Logan Rutherford and Lucas Flint (unfortunately I can't afford anything like that at the moment).

It's a fine line to walk. Yes, you can break into the genre with a book that isn't coming-of-age, but that's a pretty steep hill to climb. If you want the best chance of success, you should look at the successful books and see what they have in common. Once you strip out the miscategorized titles, I think you'll find that the most successful superhero books are the coming-of-age ones.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Jeffery H said:


> Just because this is what does best, doesn't make it the only thing people want. If you look at the Superhero sub-category, what is missing are covers that say "this is a superhero book, not an urban fantasy". You don't have to call people superheroes, but you do need them to BE superheroes. Hiding from the label is what kills a lot of books and movies. Embrace the label. Coming of age is all well and good, but there is a market for all kinds of superhero fun, as long as they are superheroes and not something like urban fantasy. You don't have to call them superheroes in your book, just make it clear they are superheroes. Plenty of stuff in the genre sells fantastic that isn't a coming of age story.


That's an interesting perspective. Thanks, Jeffery. I think from this, I'll definitely list it under superhero and then see where it goes. But I'll be putting it under cyberpunk and sci-fi genetic engineering as well. I suppose the readers will have to be the judge


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

LilyBLily said:


> I also am using keywords now to attract more of a female audience that is not looking in the main superhero niche of today but is open to reading about female superheroes.


Hey, do you mind sharing what keywords those would be? I'm looking to attract a similar kind of audience perhaps. The protagonists in my series are has-beens from an augmented pro wrestling league. Both are female, one is her forties and the other her late twenties.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Well, yes and no. If you want the best shot at making a series that sells well, it pays to look at the ones that are selling well. And by and large in the superhero genre, that is coming-of-age stuff. Covers that say "this is superhero, not urban fantasy" alone aren't enough. My original cover for Vanguard was VERY superhero. So much in fact that I got complaints from readers saying that they thought it was a comic book and were disappointed to find it was a novel. When I changed the covers, they still said superhero, but they were also done in a style that still said, "this isn't a comic book." And even still, I know those covers would be more successful if the covers were more like the ones used by Logan Rutherford and Lucas Flint (unfortunately I can't afford anything like that at the moment).
> 
> It's a fine line to walk. Yes, you can break into the genre with a book that isn't coming-of-age, but that's a pretty steep hill to climb. If you want the best chance of success, you should look at the successful books and see what they have in common. Once you strip out the miscategorized titles, I think you'll find that the most successful superhero books are the coming-of-age ones.


I'm not sure that it makes a lot of sense for me to take a contrary position seeing as how I wrote a coming of age superhero novel but ... 

A couple of quick points:

1. _Repulsive _has actually gotten little in the way of negative comments, but being that I'm overly analytical (or just overly sensitive?), I've gleaned from the comments that a fairly significant portion of my readership wished the book weren't so geared to YA. I'm actually planning my next series for way down the road and was thinking of getting away from young protagonists, partly for that reason.

2. It seems to me that the two books that are most admired in the genre (that's subjective of course) are _Confessions _and _Wearing the Cape_. _Confessions _is definitely not coming of age at all. I guess one might kind of consider Astra to be in that mold, but I never really read her that way.

Overall, it just seems like the genre is all over the map. _Don't Tell My Parents I'm a Supervillain_ seemed to do pretty well, and that featured children.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> Overall, it just seems like the genre is all over the map.


I think you hit the nail on the head right there. Perhaps the genre needs to mature a bit more to see these various sub categories form within it. I'm sure there could be a few under superhero e.g. young hero, vigilante, etc. , but alas it's probably not popular enough of a subgenre for amazon to make the extra book shelves for it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> I'm not sure that it makes a lot of sense for me to take a contrary position seeing as how I wrote a coming of age superhero novel but ...
> 
> A couple of quick points:
> 
> 1. _Repulsive _has actually gotten little in the way of negative comments, but being that I'm overly analytical (or just overly sensitive?), I've gleaned from the comments that a fairly significant portion of my readership wished the book weren't so geared to YA. I'm actually planning my next series for way down the road and was thinking of getting away from young protagonists, partly for that reason.


That's pretty anecdotal, though. One thing I've gleaned from the comments on Vanguard is that they love it's a superhero team book in the vein of the Avengers and the X-Men. But compare that to all the people who _aren't_ buying the series and are instead buying the coming-of-age books.

Remember, I'm talking about sales potential. And the numbers don't lie. The majority of the books that are selling well in the genre are the coming-of-age stuff. That doesn't mean there aren't readers who would like something different, of course there are. But are they the majority? Doesn't seem like it.



> 2. It seems to me that the two books that are most admired in the genre (that's subjective of course) are _Confessions _and _Wearing the Cape_. _Confessions _is definitely not coming of age at all. I guess one might kind of consider Astra to be in that mold, but I never really read her that way.
> 
> Overall, it just seems like the genre is all over the map. _Don't Tell My Parents I'm a Supervillain_ seemed to do pretty well, and that featured children.


Few different things here.

First, these are two examples. I never said that superhero books that aren't coming-of-age can't work, I'm talking about the best chance for success. This is about maximum sales potential. These books, if they're successful, are the exception as opposed to the rule.

Second, how are you defining success? I couldn't find Confessions on the Kindle Store so not sure if that's an abbreviated title, but I did find Wearing The Cape and it's ranked at about 50K in the overall Kindle Store, down in the low 200s for the superhero category.

Third, look at the description:



> Who wants to be a superhero?
> 
> Hope did, but she grew out of it. Which made her superhuman breakthrough in the Ashland Bombing, just before starting her freshman year at the University of Chicago, more than a little ironic. And now she has some decisions to make. Given the code-name "Astra" and invited to join the Sentinels, Chicago's premier super-team, will she take up the cape and mask and become a career superhero? Or will she get a handle on her new powers (super-strength has some serious drawbacks) and then get on with her life-plan?
> 
> In a world where superheroes join unions and have agents, and the strongest and most photogenic ones become literal supercelebrities, the temptation to become a cape is strong. But the price can be high-especially if you're "outed" and lose the shield of your secret identity. Becoming a sidekick puts the decision off for awhile, but Hope's life is further complicated when The Teatime Anarchist, the supervillain responsible for the Ashland Bombing, takes an interest in her. Apparently as Astra, Hope is supposed to save the world. Or at least a significant part of it.


That sounds extremely coming-of-age to me. You've got a young protagonist who has a normal life and is then thrust into an extraordinary world that she must now navigate. You may not see it that way, but that description seems to hit all the right tropes of a coming-of-age story.

Fourth and finally, there are a lot of things WTC does that I wouldn't recommend another indie author replicate. The cover image is okay but the typography is pretty weak and the price is extremely high.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Remember, I'm talking about sales potential. And the numbers don't lie. The majority of the books that are selling well in the genre are the coming-of-age stuff. That doesn't mean there aren't readers who would like something different, of course there are. But are they the majority? Doesn't seem like it.


Where are you getting this?

Going through and trying to weed out non-superhero in the genre, this is what I'm seeing:

Crane's really long Girl in the Box and Out of the Box series. Haven't read it, but maybe CoA.
Hard Luck Hank. Not CoA.
Cline's Ex-Heroes. Not CoA.
Caped. CoA.
Super-Powereds. CoA.

I'm just not seeing anything definitive that says, "Hey, CoA performs much better than other books."


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm getting it from months of research I did to try and figure out why my series wasn't selling and from numerous conversations I've had with about a dozen different superhero authors who came to the same conclusion as I did. Right now, the superhero genre is oversaturated with non-superhero books. But when I did my research a few months back, I found that the ones performing the best were the CoA stuff. 

Some others that you left out:

Ultra - CoA
The Never Hero - CoA
Paragons - CoA
Powerless - CoA
Rise of the Six - CoA
Unfurled - CoA

And that's not counting all the UF CoA that straddles the line between superhero/UF. 

Combined, we've got a list of eleven. Two of those are not CoA, the rest are. I'll give you Hard Luck Hank, but the highest rank Ex-Heroes has is in the high 300s in the superhero category. For argument's sake I'll give you that one, too. But that's still two out of eleven that aren't CoA. Seems to me that would seem more like an exception as opposed to a rule and that if you were looking to write a book that has the highest potential to penetrate the market, you're better off going with CoA than not.


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## skylarker1 (Aug 21, 2016)

Jeffery H said:


> If you look at the Superhero sub-category, what is missing are covers that say "this is a superhero book, not an urban fantasy". You don't have to call people superheroes, but you do need them to BE superheroes. Hiding from the label is what kills a lot of books and movies. Embrace the label. Coming of age is all well and good, but there is a market for all kinds of superhero fun, as long as they are superheroes and not something like urban fantasy. You don't have to call them superheroes in your book, just make it clear they are superheroes. Plenty of stuff in the genre sells fantastic that isn't a coming of age story.


I suspect my Team Guardian stories would have done better originally if the cover art did more to suggest 'super heroes' - they look like urban fantasies, but the stories revolve around a team of super/psychic-powered Talents policing criminal powers. I think of them as super heroes even though they don't wear costumes. I just got the rights back to the stories and am planning to re-release with new cover art. The old cover art appears in my signature - the last three titles. What do you think?


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

skylarker1 said:


> I suspect my Team Guardian stories would have done better originally if the cover art did more to suggest 'super heroes' - they look like urban fantasies, but the stories revolve around a team of super/psychic-powered Talents policing criminal powers. I think of them as super heroes even though they don't wear costumes. I just got the rights back to the stories and am planning to re-release with new cover art. The old cover art appears in my signature - the last three titles. What do you think?


Sweet Mercy could be romance or urban fantasy. 
Safe Haven and Shining Hope both look like straight out sweet romances.

If they're superheroes, yes, I would suggest new covers.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

I've been considering an idea recently of trying to create a community of superhero writers. My main sticking point, however, is that I need to not get involved in projects that take away from my time spent writing.

If y'all don't mind, help me think this through.

First, I'm defining "a community" mainly as a FB group or forum devoted exclusively to authors who write in the superhero genre for the purposes of brainstorming plots and characters, discussing launch strategies, evaluating the effectiveness of promos, etc.

Anybody had any experience doing something like this? How difficult/how much of a time sink would setting it up be? FB or a forum, benefits vs costs?

An ancillary project might be a blog or newsletter or both dedicated to finding readers.

Any thoughts wold be appreciated?


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I've been considering an idea recently of trying to create a community of superhero writers. My main sticking point, however, is that I need to not get involved in projects that take away from my time spent writing.
> 
> If y'all don't mind, help me think this through.
> 
> ...


If you make it, I'll join ^^


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> I've been considering an idea recently of trying to create a community of superhero writers. My main sticking point, however, is that I need to not get involved in projects that take away from my time spent writing.
> 
> If y'all don't mind, help me think this through.
> 
> ...


Perry Constantine created just such a Facebook group last year: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Darius Brasher said:


> Perry Constantine created just such a Facebook group last year: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


Thanks for the info. I sent a request to join but decided to cancel it after noticing a prominently placed political message. Don't really want to have anything to do with that subject at the moment!

Are you a member? Do you find it useful?


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## Darius Brasher (Feb 6, 2015)

BWFoster78 said:


> Thanks for the info. I sent a request to join but decided to cancel it after noticing a prominently placed political message. Don't really want to have anything to do with that subject at the moment!
> 
> Are you a member? Do you find it useful?


I am a member. As it's a small group, it's not super active (pun intended), but it's nice to have a bunch of superhero authors in one place. As for the political message you mentioned, I'm not sure what you're referring to. It's not politically oriented at all.


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## whistlelock (Jun 30, 2015)

Darius Brasher said:


> Perry Constantine created just such a Facebook group last year: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/


I just sent a request to join as I write noir private detective pulp stories with superheroes.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

I joined that group, seems awesome so far. I wanted you fine folks to be the first to see my new novel! I'm going to be submitting it to Kindle Scout on Monday or Tuesday. I just got the cover back from the cover artist and I couldn't be happier. If you're interested the website is, www.vividcovers.com

I should stress this is a one of a kind custom illustration. It isn't from a stock photo. I can't believe I got this at a steal for $350.










Edit: I decided against Scout. I have another series lead with scout on my pen name and I want to try a series I have complete control off.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

That's an amazing cover!


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Thanks! I love it as well. Vividcovers really outdid themselves.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BWFoster78 said:


> Thanks for the info. I sent a request to join but decided to cancel it after noticing a prominently placed political message. Don't really want to have anything to do with that subject at the moment!
> 
> Are you a member? Do you find it useful?


There aren't any political messages in the group. The only thing I can think of you referring to is my Facebook profile picture, which is political. But no political posts or discussions occur in the group.


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## Joynell Schultz (Oct 29, 2016)

I asked to join the facebook group too. I'm writing a little different perspective, but thought this would be great for ideas, input, and motivation. My November NaNoWriMo's project was titled "The Secret Lives of Superhero Wives" and it needs a little work before publishing. (I think it's a little depressing.) Here's the cover.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

It looks good to me! I bet that's an interesting twist.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

In another thread, an author said "Well it's a superhero to me," when referring to her PNR series involving shifters. I wanted to say, no that isn't a superhero. However, when my wife asked me what makes a superhero... and I struggled for an answer. I _know_ what a superhero is, I've been reading about them my whole life. Explaining that to someone else seemed a bit tricky. I thought I would lay out the categories as I know them, then maybe as a community, we could define them. After all, it is likely if you are posting here you are an expert. I can give examples of each category, but that doesn't define the category. Maybe if we all define them, perhaps we can take steps to get rid of all the non-superhero books that clutter the category.

*Superhero * Like Spider-man, superman, predominantly has extraordinaire powers beyond normal human abilities.

*Costumed Crime Fighter* Batman, Hawkeye, Night Thrasher, costume but no powers.

*Vigilante * Punisher, Kick-ass, these are characters, costume or otherwise who aren't necessarily concerned with the welfare of the perpetrator.

Quote the lines and add what your definition is. For me It is an easy thing to point at a character and say yes or no, but explaining it... that is something else.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Jeffery H said:


> In another thread, an author said "Well it's a superhero to me," when referring to her PNR series involving shifters. I wanted to say, no that isn't a superhero. However, when my wife asked me what makes a superhero... and I struggled for an answer. I _know_ what a superhero is, I've been reading about them my whole life. Explaining that to someone else seemed a bit tricky. I thought I would lay out the categories as I know them, then maybe as a community, we could define them. After all, it is likely if you are posting here you are an expert. I can give examples of each category, but that doesn't define the category. Maybe if we all define them, perhaps we can take steps to get rid of all the non-superhero books that clutter the category.
> 
> *Superhero * Like Spider-man, superman, predominantly has extraordinaire powers beyond normal human abilities.
> 
> ...


I'd add:-

* Scientifically Enhanced humans * Wolverine, Capt America, cyborgs (Ghost in the Shell), Hulk

I think you'll note that although they share the same origins, there is one in that list that is different than the others. The Major from GitS is by the same definition an enhanced human but I wouldn't refer to her as a superhero either.

One thing that makes a superhero a superhero, i think, is uniqueness. Even if their origins are mundane, there is something that sets them apart. In GitS, even though the Major is super competent, she is not a one of a kind. Where as most superheros are. Something special or different happened to them that is scarcely repeatable.

The next thing is the type of story. Classic comics were always character driven stories. Whereas most UF and SF are plot driven. Some might disagree, but if you really check it out, UF and even SF cannot exist without the plot. The stories are mainly about the characters dealing with problems arising through the interaction of different factions/powers/groups that are impacted by the core plot premise e.g. vampires, space exploration, galactic war.

Superhero on the other hand, at least the old school comics, was all about the character at the center. The character is whats the primary focus no and is independent of the plot. e.g. A Hulk story is still a hulk story whether he is trashing aliens or tanks or defensing himself in court. It's all entertaining because it's him, no matter what the plot is about.

That's my contribution


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## Joynell Schultz (Oct 29, 2016)

Jeffery H said:


> In another thread, an author said "Well it's a superhero to me," when referring to her PNR series involving shifters. I wanted to say, no that isn't a superhero. However, when my wife asked me what makes a superhero... and I struggled for an answer.


I think a "shifter" could be a superhero...depending on the *story's villain*. I truly believe the villain makes it a superhero story. They need to be bigger than life--that only a superhero can go against.

Just chiming in my 2 cents.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I think back to Potter Stewart's description of pornography: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."


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## BrianDHoward (Jan 31, 2017)

Eugene Kirk said:


> Superhero on the other hand, at least the old school comics, was all about the character at the center. The character is whats the primary focus no and is independent of the plot. e.g. A Hulk story is still a hulk story whether he is trashing aliens or tanks or defensing himself in court. It's all entertaining because it's him, no matter what the plot is about.


That's always been pretty much my take, too. As a superhero writer, I wonder what percentage of readers would agree?


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Nick Marsden said:


> I recently cruised through Never Hero by T Ellery Hodges. I couldn't stop reading that and I'm waiting patiently (to some degree) for the sequel (Lookin' at you, Hodges).


Hey, no more stink eye... I mean, it only took me a year [cough, cough... or two] longer than I estimated.

The Never Paradox, is officially up for Pre-Order | Releases: March 23rd.

Now, you may be thinking something like... T. Ellery just searched this thread until he found a quote that gave itself over to self promotion... Could he really be that shamelessly transparent?

_No! Clearly it's coincidence that I was reading posts from May 2016._


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## storyhobbit (Feb 16, 2017)

I am far from an expert on Superhero writing, but I'm currently writing a Superhero serial over on my website (argoforce.com), and I'm still learning a lot of things. However, I'm not following all of the tropes of the genre. The idea came to me when I was idly thinking about the 75th anniversary of Batman and I wondered what it would be like if there had been an ongoing comic of Batman that progressed in real time from his birth. It's an idea that would never normally hold up in comic, but it was an interesting thought. Then I had the idea of "what would it be like to be the parent of a superhero, and raise that superhero." That's the opening premise of my story. I plan to continue it for years and watch the progression of the baby superhero (Alice) as we go.

I'm not sure my approach is one that will be successful, but I enjoy writing the story, and I've learned a lot so far.

I will say this. One of the reasons, I feel, that superhero books haven't caught on that much is because people are used to seeing that genre in comic books. That's why I decided to go with a serial format, instead of a book format. It's closer to the release format that comics use. I also try to create visuals wherever I can (see the archives on my site) to help people visualize characters. Also, for my payment strategy, I'm using ads and Patreon instead of relying on book sales. My serial is still too new for those to be putting out a profit yet, but we'll see how it goes.

Anyway, just my two cents.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

storyhobbit said:


> I will say this. One of the reasons, I feel, that superhero books haven't caught on that much is because people are used to seeing that genre in comic books. That's why I decided to go with a serial format, instead of a book format. It's closer to the release format that comics use. I also try to create visuals wherever I can (see the archives on my site) to help people visualize characters. Also, for my payment strategy, I'm using ads and Patreon instead of relying on book sales. My serial is still too new for those to be putting out a profit yet, but we'll see how it goes.


When I launched my superhero series, I was thinking exactly the same thing as you and that's why I went with the serial format and hired a comic book artist to draw the cover. It completely bombed. The mistake I made was thinking that people who'd be interested in a superhero comic book would also be interested in a superhero prose series, so I tried to make it as close to a comic as I could without it actually being a comic.

Turned out I was wrong. My mistake was assuming people who read superhero comics will also read superhero novels and that doesn't seem to be the case. You want to aim for the people who are open to superheroes but maybe have zero interest in comics--people who watch the movies/TV shows and also read books. It's best to look at the authors who are really killing it in the superhero genre and see what they're doing right.


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## storyhobbit (Feb 16, 2017)

That's extremely helpful! Thank you! I'll try to keep that in mind as I write it.


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## whistlelock (Jun 30, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> When I launched my superhero series, I was thinking exactly the same thing as you and that's why I went with the serial format and hired a comic book artist to draw the cover. It completely bombed. The mistake I made was thinking that people who'd be interested in a superhero comic book would also be interested in a superhero prose series, so I tried to make it as close to a comic as I could without it actually being a comic.
> 
> Turned out I was wrong. My mistake was assuming people who read superhero comics will also read superhero novels and that doesn't seem to be the case. You want to aim for the people who are open to superheroes but maybe have zero interest in comics--people who watch the movies/TV shows and also read books. It's best to look at the authors who are really killing it in the superhero genre and see what they're doing right.


I've written a private detective series that's 80% hard boiled PI and 20% superheroes. The first one spent a week or two in the top 10 for mystery short reads. The full length novel launches March 13th. I'll update the results.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

storyhobbit said:


> That's extremely helpful! Thank you! I'll try to keep that in mind as I write it.


No problem. Hope your experience with the serial is better than mine.



whistlelock said:


> I've written a private detective series that's 80% hard boiled PI and 20% superheroes. The first one spent a week or two in the top 10 for mystery short reads. The full length novel launches March 13th. I'll update the results.


I think the 80% PI thing will definitely help you out, because you'll probably be appealing more to the mystery/urban fantasy audience as opposed to going straight-up superhero.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> When I launched my superhero series, I was thinking exactly the same thing as you and that's why I went with the serial format and hired a comic book artist to draw the cover. It completely bombed. The mistake I made was thinking that people who'd be interested in a superhero comic book would also be interested in a superhero prose series, so I tried to make it as close to a comic as I could without it actually being a comic.
> 
> Turned out I was wrong. My mistake was assuming people who read superhero comics will also read superhero novels and that doesn't seem to be the case. You want to aim for the people who are open to superheroes but maybe have zero interest in comics--people who watch the movies/TV shows and also read books. It's best to look at the authors who are really killing it in the superhero genre and see what they're doing right.


Yeah, I battled with this a long time myself in terms of packaging. My stories are still short and episodic, like a comic, but I try to make as little reference to them as a comic as possible. I'm leaning far more heavily on the Sci-fi angle to get results. It's a sad reality that people who read superhero comics do not read superhero novels.


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## StephenBrennan (Dec 21, 2012)

I put my new series "Big John Irons" in the Superheroes category for two weeks, but I didn't feel like I was getting anywhere so I moved it to Urban Fantasy yesterday. It's also in Steampunk.

To be fair, my guy is more of an anti-hero, but the general feel, and the episodic villains have a similar feel to Batman. I wasn't going for that, but that's kinda where I'm at. We'll see if the readers draw that comparison 

To me, it seemed the category was dominated by YA Twilight style...stuff...


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## nedh (Feb 21, 2017)

Jeffery H said:


> I joined that group, seems awesome so far. I wanted you fine folks to be the first to see my new novel! I'm going to be submitting it to Kindle Scout on Monday or Tuesday. I just got the cover back from the cover artist and I couldn't be happier. If you're interested the website is, www.vividcovers.com
> 
> I should stress this is a one of a kind custom illustration. It isn't from a stock photo. I can't believe I got this at a steal for $350.
> 
> ...


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Eugene Kirk said:


> Yeah, I battled with this a long time myself in terms of packaging. My stories are still short and episodic, like a comic, but I try to make as little reference to them as a comic as possible. I'm leaning far more heavily on the Sci-fi angle to get results. It's a sad reality that people who read superhero comics do not read superhero novels.


I don't think this is true. I think they went a novel. If they wanted a comic they would go buy one. Just because the subject matter is the same doesn't mean the medium should be the same. Of course, I could be completely wrong.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Jeffery H said:


> I don't think this is true. I think they went a novel. If they wanted a comic they would go buy one. Just because the subject matter is the same doesn't mean the medium should be the same. Of course, I could be completely wrong.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


That may be, but its still people who like to read prose. Perhaps I should clarify what I meant. I believe that comic readers and novel readers are not the same audience. You may get a "Person" who will do both, but generally I think trying to market to the comic reader is not going to work for books. That's sort of what I've observed when trying to market my book to people on comic sites. They want art it seems not words.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Eugene Kirk said:


> That may be, but its still people who like to read prose. Perhaps I should clarify what I meant. I believe that comic readers and novel readers are not the same audience. You may get a "Person" who will do both, but generally I think trying to market to the comic reader is not going to work for books. That's sort of what I've observed when trying to market my book to people on comic sites. They want art it seems not words.


I think this is true. Doesn't mean that there aren't comic book fans who don't read novels, but in my experience, most who do both tend to read other genres in prose and save superheroes for the comics. It would explain why things like comic-style covers don't work as well with superhero prose readers.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

I think there's  no easy line. I grew up on Watchmen, on The Dark Knight returns, and the heavy brain-benders and philosophical trips of Vertigo's Sandman comics and their various spinoffs. The iron age at its finest, y'know? To me, those are comics just as much as the soap opera punch'em'ups that people buy every month. And some of those soap operas are pretty damn good, don't get me wrong, but...

People want books to be DEEPER, generally. They want to think, they want to get inside a character's head, they don't go to a book with the same expectation as a comic. 

To me Watchmen was as deep as any book, and that's what I strive to emulate. Don't always succeed, but I'll never stop trying.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I think back to Potter Stewart's description of pornography: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."





AndrewSeiple said:


> I think there's no easy line.
> ...
> People want books to be DEEPER, generally. They want to think, they want to get inside a character's head, they don't go to a book with the same expectation as a comic.
> ...


I agree with both these gentlemen. I don't think there's an easy way to demarcate superhero from non-superhero in the big lists, though a few things usually signal a superhero book. Capes, tights, masks, and superpowers spring to mind.

Mind you, they may be missing from a superhero book or present in a non-superhero book. While some books are extremely unlikely to be superhero books (_Three-Way Werewolf Whoopee_) from a quick glance, others might be harder to tell (_Magickal Snarkblatt_). One of the things I like about the genre is there's room for a variety of styles and approaches. I don't think there's a monolithic wall of superhero readers who all want the same thing, though that would be easier to market to.

Any change to categorization would have to come from the system - Amazon - and we all know from the rather spirited discussions in other threads what the status is on that. I don't think it's worth our time to argue about that.

The effectiveness of comic book-style covers? Fair game. I'm of the opinion comic book readers have an overlap with superhero book readers, but they're not necessarily the same crowd, just like not all geeks belong to the same fandoms.

As far as what readers want, they want books. If we want the superhero category to reflect our vision of superhero books, we need to write and sell them. Let's get writing. 

Disclaimer. Prawn. Grain of salt and snack of choice, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.


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## BrianDHoward (Jan 31, 2017)

The pretty huge successes of superhero movies of late would seem to suggest that the superhero concept is pretty popular, even outside the comic audience. Has anyone seen anything suggesting that those non-comic-fan movie watchers are going for superhero novels?

As a new superhero novelist myself I kinda hope so.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BrianDHoward said:


> The pretty huge successes of superhero movies of late would seem to suggest that the superhero concept is pretty popular, even outside the comic audience. Has anyone seen anything suggesting that those non-comic-fan movie watchers are going for superhero novels?
> 
> As a new superhero novelist myself I kinda hope so.


I don't have any data to back it up, but my guess would be absolutely. Between the movies and the TV shows, superheroes are everywhere and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that people who enjoy those things would also want to read about them, but maybe aren't so interested in comics for whatever reason (cost, confusion, just not into that style of storytelling). And given that some of the things which work for superhero comics don't also work for superhero novels would suggest that the audiences aren't exactly the same.


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Howdy fellow superhero novelists! Brian pointed me here to connect with other writers in the genre. I've released two novels in the Children of Nostradamus, a dystopian super powered (not sure I'd quite call them heroes....they've got issues!) series and have a few more books to release. I decided to hop on kboards because I feel like I've been bumping into a wall as far as exposure goes. I've hit the top 10 in the superhero category a few times, but it's hard to sustain it against the delightfully weird things that get miscategorized. I'm hoping to connect with other superhero authors, maybe exchange some suggestions? mailing list exchanges? Whatever at this point, I figure go where the writers are instead of working in a vacuum. So hello!

Since I'm hopping in the middle of a discussion. I think the superhero movie trend has done a lot for the genre overall. Diehard fans might have a narrow scope of what they're into, but think of how many more people know Wolverine, X-Men or seriously, Guardian's has never had a bigger following. I think the secret cave of geek has moved into the mainstream and while it may dilute the culture a bit, I feel I'd rather talk geek with fans no matter how they came to be than not talking at all! Now if that translates to novels...I hope so, or else this is going to be a passion project!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Welcome to the party.  Mind the punch. It's glowing again, so someone is probably give us all superpowers through radioactivity again.

We do a bit of chatting on this thread about assorted superhero-y topics like what belongs on a superhero novel cover.

Some of the bunch here also belong to Perry Constantine's Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/. I'm told it's small but excellent when active.

Not to worry about your supers not precisely being heroes. Superhero books seem to run a wide gamut: coming of age, superhero parents, superhero wives, clueless superheroes, wrestling superheroes, etc. I'm fairly certain there's a supervillain writer or two lurking as well, when they're not off building outrageous death traps (purely for research purposes, I'm sure).


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Radioactive punch? My power will be everything tasting like Hawaiian Punch and be called the "Ladle." 

Thanks for the tip on the Facebook group, always hunting for other similar authors, it's been quite the slow go bumping into people. My last launch went 10x better than my first, but even then, the numbers weren't anything to cheer on. I'm hoping some networking opportunities will help grow my reach.

I also feel that this super villain concept needs sharks with lasers attached to their heads!


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Muhahahhaa! Mock not supervillain writers! For we...


...are actually writing a pretty popular sub-sub-genre. 

That said, I second Perry's facebook group. Lots of good people there, lots of good stuff and opportunities. If I weren't working through some sinister long-term plans(tm) right now I'd be more involved. But we can help you get your head on straight, share tips and stories at the very least.


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

If you wrote a book on how to write super villains, you could be part of a popular sub-sub-sub genre!

Also, I Am Invincible is one of my latest reads (audio) absolutely loved the dry humor of a villain who hasn't quite made it. 

Thanks for the heads up, sent in a request, definitely looking to connect with more people. I hang out with horror writers in real life (they're the physically closest group to me) and they're fun, but I need a geeky tribe. Only so much black allowed in my wardrobe (and death metal for my ears.)


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

A couple of superhero writer business related thoughts:

1. My email newsletter's effectiveness is anemic at best, so I'm currently doing tons of research about how to make it better. Long story short, I intend to start sending out my newsletter a lot more often starting in the next couple of weeks. My subscribers are a mix of epic fantasy fans and superhero fans. When I posted a link to Darius' book, it got only 22 clicks. That being said, if any of you have a promo running, I'd be happy to have the extra content for my newsletter. Absolutely no reciprocation required. Shoot me an email at the address in my signature.

2. I've been analyzing my past promos and ads. Here are some results that might be relevant to superhero writers:

Made my free short story, Repulsive Origins: The Captain, free and did a promo. Spent $57 for Genre Pulse, Ebooklister, Ebookasaurus, and Book Zio. Total downloads - 222. That's $.26 per download, $.45 per download on the day the first three of those ran. Granted that's for a short story, which is a significantly harder sell than longer works, but my experience with _Abuse of Power_, a novella, is about $.04/download.

I also ran a $.99 promo for _Repulsive _upon launch. Spent $170.70 for Bknights, Sweet Free Books, Booktastic, Read Cheaply, Bargain Booksy, Betty Book Freak, Ebookhounds, Book Raid, Book Zio, and FKBT New Release. Total sales: 49. Not good at all.

These results make me suspect that promo sites might not be great for a niche genre like superhero.

AMS ads, on the other hand ...:

I've done two Sponsored Product campaigns for _Rise of the Mages_ and one for _Repulsive_. The RotM ones took 80 more clicks to get the same number of sales, requiring 8 more clicks per sale, and took $47.45 more to get the same number of sales, resulting in a cost of $.15 more per click.

These results seem to indicate the opposite of promo sites. The cost per click for all the keywords are lower, and each click was more likely to result in a buy. This conclusion makes some sense to me. Advertising a book to urban fantasy fans or whatever big umbrella category a promo site has available isn't as likely to find superhero readers, and since those readers are underserved by promo sites, they're more likely to click on your ads.

DISCLAIMER - I think my results are enough for me to develop a working hypothesis, but the sample size is way too small for me to make any kind of definitive conclusions. There aren't many things more dangerous than basing decisions on small sample sizes just because the results seem logical.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

I ran across a book blog a few weeks ago that had reviewed Indomitable, and I ended up picking up a copy based on the review.). Anyway, on a whim, I reached out to the guy and asked if he'd be interested in Repulsive.

He was. He reviewed it. And he's open to reading and reviewing more superhero books.

His blog isn't huge, but he cross posts to Amazon.

If you're looking for a review, try him. Here's the link (posted with his permission):

https://marcdcrepeaux.com/book-reviews/


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Back-to-back useful posts! Thanks, Brian! I'm sure we're all grateful for the info.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Eugene Kirk said:


> * Scientifically Enhanced humans * Wolverine


Sorry, this stuck out in a big way. While all the rest you mentioned are indeed humans, who are enhanced, Wolverine is not human, he is a mutant. An enhanced mutant, but mutant nonetheless.

Sorry for the interjection. Had to get it out my system lol.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

I decided to go the Scout route for my first Superhero novel (well first I'm going to try to sell).

https://kindlescout.amazon.com/p/8OEGA1OAUMRB

A touch of sweet romance, a lot of science and a whole bunch of fun!


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Nominated Jeffery.


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Want a chance to grow your mailing list? I'm putting together a Book Funnel promotion to build lists specific to superhero fiction. I'd like to get at least 10 people to participate. You can have a full novel, a sample, or a short story if you'd like. You do not need to be published to participate. If you have any questions, let me know!

https://goo.gl/forms/1Sgv6nhqP0L8RC2


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## Nick Marsden (Jan 28, 2015)

I've been quiet on this thread for a long time because I've been working furiously on my book: Untouchable, the Heroes of FORCE, Book 1!
It's done!!!!

I'm doing the 2nd self-edit by posting chapters on Wattpad. Every Monday and Friday, a new chapter goes up. I cut and past the draft in Wattpad's editor, then I do my own edit on the chapter. Once I get readers, I'll eventually have beta-reads of it as well. Right now, 4 chapters are up and no reads other than my own.

Would any of you be interested in helping out? Should I ask again when all the chapters are up? (Should I just throw them all up at once?? The impulsive, reckless side of me wants to, but the "I've been burned by publishing too quickly" side of me is holding back.)

Right now, the chapters that are up can be found here: https://www.wattpad.com/story/105216665-untouchable-heroes-of-force-book-1

The first outline to Book 2 is done and the draft will start this week. Untouchable was the fastest project, from conception to completion, that I've ever done, and Book 2 will be even faster. It's very exciting!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

jeremyflagg said:


> Want a chance to grow your mailing list? I'm putting together a Book Funnel promotion to build lists specific to superhero fiction. I'd like to get at least 10 people to participate. You can have a full novel, a sample, or a short story if you'd like. You do not need to be published to participate. If you have any questions, let me know!
> 
> https://goo.gl/forms/1Sgv6nhqP0L8RC2


I'd be open to a superhero-specific promotion, especially with Book 2 coming out soon, but I can't yet justify the money to upgrade my Bookfunnel to the level necessary to collect emails.

Or to sign up for the Instafreebie level that allows you to collect mailing list addresses, though I've toyed with joining for a month or two and seeing how it goes. If we got an Instafreebie superhero thing going, I'd probably be willing to use one of my mailing list magnets on it and try a couple months.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> I'd be open to a superhero-specific promotion, especially with Book 2 coming out soon, but I can't yet justify the money to upgrade my Bookfunnel to the level necessary to collect emails.
> 
> Or to sign up for the Instafreebie level that allows you to collect mailing list addresses, though I've toyed with joining for a month or two and seeing how it goes. If we got an Instafreebie superhero thing going, I'd probably be willing to use one of my mailing list magnets on it and try a couple months.


I was planning on trying to set up an Instafreebie promotion in late June/early July. Trying like mad to get _Gryphon _out the door first!

EDIT: Never mind. Looks like Jeremy is going to switch his to Instafreebie, so no need for me to do a separate one.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

BWFoster78 said:


> I was planning on trying to set up an Instafreebie promotion in late June/early July. Trying like mad to get _Gryphon _out the door first!
> 
> EDIT: Never mind. Looks like Jeremy is going to switch his to Instafreebie, so no need for me to do a separate one.


Looking forward to Gryphon. 

Yeah, I better see if I can get a better cover for one of my freebies if I'm going to lure people in with it. Sadly, my usual cover designer is booked until Nov/Dec.


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

*Superhero Instafreebie Promo*

Want a chance to grow your mailing list? I'm putting together a Instafreebie promotion to build lists specific to superhero fiction. I'd like to get at least 10 people to participate. You can have a full novel, a sample, or a short story if you'd like. You do not need to be published to participate. If you have any questions, let me know!

https://goo.gl/forms/qEEkLKFgUs1LNl853

Note: More people wanted to do an instafreebie promo, so I decided to go where the authors are!


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

jeremyflagg said:


> *Superhero Instafreebie Promo*
> 
> Want a chance to grow your mailing list? I'm putting together a Instafreebie promotion to build lists specific to superhero fiction. I'd like to get at least 10 people to participate. You can have a full novel, a sample, or a short story if you'd like. You do not need to be published to participate. If you have any questions, let me know!
> 
> ...


How long will this run for Jeremy and when will it start? I am launching my book in KU on May 8th but not sure where the 10% mark is to create a sample until I see the look inside. Will it still be running after that point?


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Eugene, It'll go for the entire month of May. I did the 10% based off my word count. So if you know the word count already, shouldn't be too hard. Would love to have you!


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

I just finished Episode 1 of my superhero spin-off series on Channillo. For anyone that asked about using Channillo before, it took a little while to get there. I've been writing it for 5 months, in 18 parts, totaling to 21k words. It felt like writing in a vacuum for a long time, but it's starting to get a little bit of notice. It's one of those platforms where you really have to participate and follow other people. It's rewarding in its own way, and gives me something small to work on between chapters of larger works. 

EDIT: To clarify the timeline, I post every Tuesday and have been since Jan. 5th. Each part is usually about 1k words, give or take a couple hundred words for a few outliers.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

jeremyflagg said:


> *Superhero Instafreebie Promo*
> 
> Want a chance to grow your mailing list? I'm putting together a Instafreebie promotion to build lists specific to superhero fiction. I'd like to get at least 10 people to participate. You can have a full novel, a sample, or a short story if you'd like. You do not need to be published to participate. If you have any questions, let me know!
> 
> ...


Is the promo closed? The link seems to imply that.

Poo. I've almost got a sweet new cover for my short story ready and everything.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

So, what's your superhero wearing?

Who went with Spandex? Custom Chemical X bodysuits? Leather jumpsuits? Long johns with a letter pinned on it and the flap (hopefully) sewn shut?

My main characters just got sportswear made of a fabric "based on nanofiber polymers used in self-healing hydrogels." No logos. No shoes yet, either, and just dime store masks. Book 1 featured a lot of ripped fabric and non-sexual nudity.

Help distract me, please. Book 2, _Human_, is scheduled to release May 5, but all the distributors are in their version of "in review." Both the editor and the proofreader ran really late.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

kdiem said:


> So, what's your superhero wearing?
> 
> Who went with Spandex? Custom Chemical X bodysuits? Leather jumpsuits? Long johns with a letter pinned on it and the flap (hopefully) sewn shut?
> 
> ...


My series lead "Size Queen" is 8 ft tall and rocks this when its time to kick @$$. [This is the cover for book 8]

pic uploadcertificity.com


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

kdiem said:


> So, what's your superhero wearing?


Mine is wearing a nylon swimsuit with a towel pinned around her neck for a cape. She can get away with that daring look as she's seven years old. It's my first superhero short and I have no idea how it'll do. It should be finished next month. Fingers crossed for me, everybody!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

kdiem said:


> So, what's your superhero wearing?
> 
> Who went with Spandex? Custom Chemical X bodysuits? Leather jumpsuits? Long johns with a letter pinned on it and the flap (hopefully) sewn shut?
> 
> ...


Similar to the kinds of uniforms you'll see in the current superhero movies. They're colorful, but a little more textured than just regular spandex. It's been a while since I reviewed the books, but I believe I described them as being experimental uniforms that provide some protection from damage and the elements.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Eugene Kirk said:


> My series lead "Size Queen" is 8 ft tall and rocks this when its time to kick @$$. [This is the cover for book 8]
> 
> pic uploadcertificity.com


Wow. Cool. Looks like it's right off the cover of a video game and would survive a nuclear explosion! Are you going to redo the Neon Amazon cover to match book 8? (You have books 1-7 done?)



Jessie G. Talbot said:


> Mine is wearing a nylon swimsuit with a towel pinned around her neck for a cape. She can get away with that daring look as she's seven years old. It's my first superhero short and I have no idea how it'll do. It should be finished next month. Fingers crossed for me, everybody!


Oh, it sounds adorable!  Keeping my fingers crossed for you.



Perry Constantine said:


> Similar to the kinds of uniforms you'll see in the current superhero movies. They're colorful, but a little more textured than just regular spandex. It's been a while since I reviewed the books, but I believe I described them as being experimental uniforms that provide some protection from damage and the elements.


My main would love a costume that provided protection like that. 

Anyone else?

[I can breathe again. Human's up at most of the major retailers, though Barnes & Noble are dragging their feet.]


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

kdiem said:


> Wow. Cool. Looks like it's right off the cover of a video game and would survive a nuclear explosion! Are you going to redo the Neon Amazon cover to match book 8? (You have books 1-7 done?)


If my books make a ton of money maybe lol! That cover was kind of a rare find for me and I got access to it for only $50. The original work (which was commissioned by someone else) had a hammer instead of a blade and probably cost over $2k. But I asked if I could use it as a cover with a modified weapon and he agreed. Awesome guy! I have the books written and they are going through the editing process. By co-writer is a graphic artist so he is doing the covers cheaply for now. Again, I'd love to have all covers using custom artwork like this, but we'll see how the series does come launch day on the 8th!


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm gearing up to launch Arsenal and I was hoping to have a review team ready to go on day one. If anyone here reads and buys superhero genre on Amazon. or sci-fi, in general, would like to be involved, let me know. I will send you a free copy of the book on release day in exchange for an honest review. My goal is to have at least ten reviews on the first day. If you know anyone who loves the genre please send them my way here, or at my Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/jefferyhhaskell


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

kdiem said:


> So, what's your superhero wearing?


Mine has a little bit of a spandex covering, but it's a bit stiffer material underneath, and the main vest is bulletproof underneath corded material. Since he spends his days as a police dog, I thought that made sense. The superhero and police dog outfits resemble each other, but the superhero one shows more of the shoulder so his cream star can be seen.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

kdiem said:


> So, what's your superhero wearing?


Arsenal, aka Amelia Lockheart wears a battle suit composed of a mixture of tungsten carbide bonded to military grade titanium using tech and a technique she invented. 'Cause she's smart.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

LucasCWheeler said:


> Mine has a little bit of a spandex covering, but it's a bit stiffer material underneath, and the main vest is bulletproof underneath corded material. Since he spends his days as a police dog, I thought that made sense. The superhero and police dog outfits resemble each other, but the superhero one shows more of the shoulder so his cream star can be seen.


Sure, I've seen vests on police dogs before. Makes a lot of sense. 



Jeffery H said:


> Arsenal, aka Amelia Lockheart wears a battle suit composed of a mixture of tungsten carbide bonded to military grade titanium using tech and a technique she invented. 'Cause she's smart.


OK, so an armored suit, similar to Eugene Kirk's. 



Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> My superheroes wear a full-body suit that is bullet- and fireproof. Pretty simple, really. Haven't even decided what material it is made out of. (Shrug) Just never considered it important enough to think about.


I don't go into depth on what mine's made out of either. Sounds very classical comic book.

So far, we've got a bulletproof vest, two armored suits, one classical Chemical X bodysuit, one swimsuit, and one Chemical-X Spandex-type sportswear. Anyone else?  I'm loving the variety here. Didn't I read someone's book that had someone in a hockey goalie's outfit?

Whose character rocks a mask? I think most of those who replied aren't - the armored suits don't need one, the dog doesn't... not certain about the seven-year-old, and Perry's cover seems to imply that only one of his goes masked.

** Edited to fix a horrible grammatical mistake that will torment me the rest of my days or until I forget about it. But it's terrible until then.


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

Leather suit kinda like what The Flash wears in the CW Series. It's not bulletproof or anything, but my MC has plenty of spares.


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## Kessie Carroll (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm reading this thread with such a light dawning in my head. My YA UF book that I've had such trouble figuring out what it is ... it's superhero. My MC gets super powers, has to learn to use them, and defeats the big bad. *facepalm* And I had no idea this was even a genre.

I guess now I can go back through the books and tighten them up. Gosh, I can even rebrand the covers. I need to write the final book in the series, and I've been so blocked, because I didn't know what genre this was. Thank goodness for you guys! *hugs you all*


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Who's character rocks a mask? I think most of those who replied aren't - the armored suits don't need one, the dog doesn't... not certain about the seven-year-old, and Perry's cover seems to imply that only one of his goes masked.


My characters' masks are usually part of their suit, so the whole thing is just one connected piece.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Sure, I've seen vests on police dogs before. Makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Who's character rocks a mask? I think most of those who replied aren't - the armored suits don't need one, the dog doesn't...


Actually, the dog does. xD It's because he's a color that stands out on the force, black sable and cream and his face is heavily black-saturated, which is called a "mask", and is the reason he was named Bandit (ironic for a police dog? ), and it's a core identifying feature of his police dog persona. To detract from that, he got a purple mask. I went ahead and dug up the excerpt where he gets his costume, so enjoy y'all.

Caleb Torres is his police partner and confidante after he got his powers.

-----

"I didn't know you could sew", Bandit said from the foot of the bed while he gnawed on a chew toy.

"There's a lot you don't know about me," Caleb said as he threaded a needle. "Like that I don't allow animals on the furniture." Bandit looked up.

"That's cold, Torres. Real cold."

"Well, warm yourself up. Come try this on." Caleb held out the finished product, and Bandit hopped off the bed and trotted over to him. It was easy to slip on the purple mask. It was a stiff material, but it gently followed the slope of his face without obstructing his vision.

"Good job on making the eye holes," Bandit commented.

"I have a knack for spacial reasoning," Caleb said while admiring his work. He helped Bandit into the main piece, which was a vest much like his police vest, but it was deep purple and covered more of his body. It had the spandex look in a few places, but along the front it was more corded in appearance. He tried to move in it, and it felt comfortable enough. The last part were the leg guards on his forelegs. Superficially, they were the shade of purple to match, but underneath they were strong leather to help support his joints. He sighed, thinking about how athletic his new role would be.

He looked in the mirror at his new self. He didn't recognize himself. He really did look like a super dog, as far as homespun costumes go. He was pleased to see that his cream-colored star on his shoulder was visible, and even accentuated like an emblem. Luckily, it would be hidden under his police uniform, which he was rarely without in public. It felt right to have the star as a part of his new persona, and not his day-to-day one. Caleb moved behind him and tried to affix something flowing and purple to the collar of the costume, and Bandit swiftly sidestepped.

"No capes," he said, and Caleb took on a pained look.

"But it's so cute," he said and tried to tempt his canine companion at the shininess of the fabric.

"Absolutely not."

"You're being a real bummer about this superhero thing. When am I going to get this chance again?"

"With your next super dog, I promise."

Their playful argument was interrupted by Caleb's police scanner and phone going haywire at the same time. He lunged to answer it, and by the time he had hung up, he had a grim look on his face.

"We have to get downtown. Orville strikes again, and this time is far worse."


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Joseph Bradshire said:


> Yellow spandex. I'm serious. Neon. She can pull the hood over her head and it's a space suit and scuba suit. It's pretty high tech.


My MC is jealous. All she's got it dull purple, though I might let her branch into dull shades of grey in the future or camo. Sounds very cool.



Logan R. said:


> Leather suit kinda like what The Flash wears in the CW Series. It's not bulletproof or anything, but my MC has plenty of spares.


Good, leather needed a representative, given how often it shows up in movies. Spares are good.



LucasCWheeler said:


> Actually, the dog does. xD It's because he's a color that stands out on the force, black sable and cream and his face is heavily black-saturated, which is called a "mask", and is the reason he was named Bandit (ironic for a police dog? ), and it's a core identifying feature of his police dog persona. To detract from that, he got a purple mask. I went ahead and dug up the excerpt where he gets his costume, so enjoy y'all.
> ...


My bad. Apologies, Lucas, and thanks for the excerpt!



Kessie Carroll said:


> I'm reading this thread with such a light dawning in my head. My YA UF book that I've had such trouble figuring out what it is ... it's superhero. My MC gets super powers, has to learn to use them, and defeats the big bad. *facepalm* And I had no idea this was even a genre.
> ...


Good luck, Kessie Carroll! You going to throw a mask on your MC and a few of the other standard superhero tropes?

Anyone else? This has been fun.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Kessie Carroll said:


> I'm reading this thread with such a light dawning in my head. My YA UF book that I've had such trouble figuring out what it is ... it's superhero. My MC gets super powers, has to learn to use them, and defeats the big bad. *facepalm* And I had no idea this was even a genre.
> 
> I guess now I can go back through the books and tighten them up. Gosh, I can even rebrand the covers. I need to write the final book in the series, and I've been so blocked, because I didn't know what genre this was. Thank goodness for you guys! *hugs you all*


I believe most Superhero fiction is actually a subset of UF. Or perhaps even the other way around. Sadly the superhero labeled stuff gets the short end of the stick, when it comes to the marketing. Branding it clearly as UF with superhero like elements will do you far more favors than the other way around.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

kdiem said:


> My MC is jealous. All she's got it dull purple, though I might let her branch into dull shades of grey in the future or camo. Sounds very cool.


Sound's like she needs an upgrade. Amelia could probably whip something together with molecules capable of expanding like elastic while maintaining their cohesion. With the right electro-stimulus, it might even change colors and be able to look like other things. Add in some of her nanite tech and it could even repair itself over time.

Give her a call if you want some


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Eugene Kirk said:


> I believe most Superhero fiction is actually a subset of UF. Or perhaps even the other way around. Sadly the superhero labeled stuff gets the short end of the stick, when it comes to the marketing. Branding it clearly as UF with superhero like elements will do you far more favors than the other way around.


It depends on how you do it. It seems the most successful superhero prose straddles that line between superhero and UF. You need a cover that's in the same style as UF covers, but has a superhero twist. If you go too much into the superhero realm, then you run the risk of being mistaken for a graphic novel, which will alienate you from superhero prose readers and then annoy superhero comic readers once they realize your book is prose.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

I disagree with both of these. Books like Wearing the Cape and Ex-heroes aren't popular because they're trying to be something else. They're popular because they embrace the superhero mythos. The only reason there are urban fantasy books in the genre is that authors put them here to get the orange label. People who read superhero prose also read the comics, they know what a superhero looks like and I think that is what they want. I could be wrong.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Jeffery H said:


> Sound's like she needs an upgrade. Amelia could probably whip something together with molecules capable of expanding like elastic while maintaining their cohesion. With the right electro-stimulus, it might even change colors and be able to look like other things. Add in some of her nanite tech and it could even repair itself over time.
> 
> Give her a call if you want some


LOL. My MC would love that, which is why she can't have it. 

She has a mask, but it's a cheap costume store one she got on clearance. Her current Spandex-like sportswear will stay with her when she shapeshifts, heal itself (if she leaves it on long enough), and somewhat regulate temperatures over the areas it covers, even if the colors are boring and it doesn't add to her defenses. Since one of my betas commented that my MC's fashion sense is both tragic and blinding, it's for the good of all readers that she doesn't have something she can change like that. At least not yet - can't rule out much in a superhero story, after all.

---------Switching topics

To address labeling something UF vs superhero, it depends on your content. Yes, everyone agrees that it sucks when someone sticks their work in the wrong category. While _Wearing the Cape_ is pretty classical superhero stuff, you can make honest arguments for other works being a mix of UF and superhero, or a mix of Sci-Fi and superhero, or a mix of detective noir and superhero or what have you. Part of what makes the superhero genre such a fun one is all the variety you can get.

I'm biased, of course, since I consider mine superhero urban fantasy, but I'm a prawn yet.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

For me, and this could totally be just me, in order for it to be fantasy it must have fantasy elements. Magic, elves, gods, ghosts, spirits, etc. Just being _fantastical[/i doesn't make it fantasy. But that may be just me._


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Thevoiceofreason said:


> For me, and this could totally be just me, in order for it to be fantasy it must have fantasy elements. Magic, elves, gods, ghosts, spirits, etc. Just being _fantastical[/i doesn't make it fantasy. But that may be just me.
> _


_

I don't think anyone thinks it's just you.

Urban fantasy lends itself easily to superheroes, though, and shares tropes. For example, the secretive government agency that handles supernatural/superpowered issues and open vs. secret supernatural/superpowered life. The main character with the magic/super power.

Crossovers exist. For example, my Arca universe has magic, spellcasters (one a major character!), werewolves, vampires, a dragon, and other mythological creatures running around. Heck, my Book 2 is all about the MC trying to find a magic dagger before the supervillains do. That should fit your fantasy criteria. I also have superhero stuff, like the Chemical X Spandex and masks, rampant do-gooding, and monologuing themed supervillains._


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Is the Facebook group down? Or did I get kicked out?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

The rules state no self-promotion. I've been lenient on that in some respects to allow people to share their promos and covers, but when you specifically ask people to buy your book, that definitely crosses the line. Especially when you repost it after it's been removed.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

The UF/Superhero genres being interchangeable really encourages me. Perhaps unwisely...*steeples fingers*

Thanks!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Jessie G. Talbot said:


> The UF/Superhero genres being interchangeable really encourages me. Perhaps unwisely...*steeples fingers*
> 
> Thanks!


They're not interchangeable, but they can be very closely tied depending on how you write them. The shared ones are easy to check off, but you really do need to check off the specific-to-superhero tropes and specific-to-UF tropes too. Good luck!


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## Mjcaan (Aug 22, 2013)

After finishing book three in my series, I noticed something interesting.  Reading through various reviews, one thing that struck me is that a lot of readers kept referring to my books as sic-fi.  So with book three I changed my keywords and category to ski-fi, action/adventure.  That's also how I branded it when running promos.  The results were a complete 180.  The book and the previous two sold right out of the gate!  They all climbed fairly high and stuck for awhile before trickling down.  This was back in December.  Another experiment I tried, I ran an AMS ad using comic book characters, and the latest SH movies and TV shows as keywords.  Hits to this keywords were sky high...but only one translated to a sale.  I think I had better results with sic-fi terms.  I think all of this tells me that while people are searching for SH related material, they want specific material (Guardians of the Galaxy could make someone a mint right now), or they are clicking on certain popular superhero, but they don't seem to be searching for superhero books per se.  Sales of my series have been good however, so much so that I am finishing up book four rather than move on to an UF series.  I want to see what happens to sales when I release book four and focus on sci-fi as a category for it even though it is still a continuation of my SH series.  I'll let everyone know what I find out!
Thanks,
MJ


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Perry Constantine said:


> The rules state no self-promotion. I've been lenient on that in some respects to allow people to share their promos and covers, but when you specifically ask people to buy your book, that definitely crosses the line. Especially when you repost it after it's been removed.


Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking. Was just close to the bestseller and I thought maybe people could help me out. I didn't think of it as promoting a book per se. But yeah, I totally see that. Well, I guess that is that. Take care!


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## Thevoiceofreason (Jan 28, 2017)

Kindle Scout passed on Arsenal, which is no big surprise. When I spoke to them about direct submitting it they didn't seem interested in branching out into superheroes at the moment. If I notice that change, or if the let me know, I will pass it along. It is still a fantastic way to build an audience. 

I'm probably going to shoot for an end of may launch, is anyone interested in a newsletter swap or cross promotion of some kind?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Another experiment I tried, I ran an AMS ad using comic book characters, and the latest SH movies and TV shows as keywords. Hits to this keywords were sky high...but only one translated to a sale.


When I ran ads for _Repulsive_, I got a sale for Batman and 3 for Captain America. Overall, I got 62 clicks from the names of superheroes, ranging from $.03 to $.12, to get those 4 sales. A quick estimate tells me that I came close to doubling my money (assuming an $.08 average CPC).


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

A quick heads up: I entered _Repulsive _in the UF promo listed in this thread:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,252740.0.html

If any of you are looking to build your email lists through a mass giveaway, this is probably a good opportunity, especially if several superhero authors enter their books.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I've tried these mass giveaways twice before and can't really recommend them. Sure, I got a lot of sign-ups, and I even tried the thing where I would put them on a separate list to try and prime them up with an autoresponder chain and then get them to migrate over to my main list. But even the ones who migrated over were just free-seekers who never bought anything. 

Hopefully you'll have better luck.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've tried these mass giveaways twice before and can't really recommend them. Sure, I got a lot of sign-ups, and I even tried the thing where I would put them on a separate list to try and prime them up with an autoresponder chain and then get them to migrate over to my main list. But even the ones who migrated over were just free-seekers who never bought anything.
> 
> Hopefully you'll have better luck.


My general philosophy is that if it's good enough for Nicholas Erik, it's good enough for me 

Seriously speaking, though, I'm working on following the strategy of get as many people on my list as possible, weed out the non-performers through autoresponders, and work hard to convert the rest to buyers. Not sure if it's going to work out for me or not, but it's the path I'm trying unless I determine that I can't make it work. Shooting to build my list up to around 4,500 and then work on making sure it's profitable before going up to the next payment tier.

In the past, I've found these kind of giveaways to produce a lot more subscribers per dollar than Instafreebie is giving me. Both groups drop a lot of people by the time they make it through the autoresponder, but I still think that giveaways are a bigger bang for the buck.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Perry, thank you for letting us know about your results. Things change so quickly that I wonder if Brian will have the same results? 

My list could use more readers, so I have to bite the bullet and do some list-building sometime. Personally, I'm leaning toward something where readers have to sign up specifically for my list rather than a mass list. While I strive to entertain my newsletter folks, I don't know that I'm so entertaining that they'd read and click my stuff if they're subscribed to fifty other authors they may or may not have heard of.


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

kdiem said:


> Perry, thank you for letting us know about your results. Things change so quickly that I wonder if Brian will have the same results?
> 
> My list could use more readers, so I have to bite the bullet and do some list-building sometime. Personally, I'm leaning toward something where readers have to sign up specifically for my list rather than a mass list. While I strive to entertain my newsletter folks, I don't know that I'm so entertaining that they'd read and click my stuff if they're subscribed to fifty other authors they may or may not have heard of.


The strategy I'm pursuing requires a serious investment in both money and time. It's not an easy path, and there is a serious learning curve associated with figuring out how to turn subscribers into buyers.

Where I am right now, though, I think the potential gain is worth the risk.

I completely understand, however, those authors who choose to go a different path. Keeping you list wholly organic and using it mostly to announce new releases is certainly a cheaper, less-risky option that consumes minimal time.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Guys,

While we're on the subject of list building, what has been your experience with organic subscriber growth rate. This would be for your back/front of the book reader magnet. Looking for an answer in the x subs per 100 sales sort of thing.  Right now my organic subs are like molasses but I'd like to know if this is normal for the value I'm getting (which isn't high).

Thanks is advance!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Eugene Kirk said:


> Guys,
> 
> While we're on the subject of list building, what has been your experience with organic subscriber growth rate. This would be for your back/front of the book reader magnet. Looking for an answer in the x subs per 100 sales sort of thing. Right now my organic subs are like molasses but I'd like to know if this is normal for the value I'm getting (which isn't high).
> 
> Thanks is advance!


I started a new list for my latest series and I did something different this time around. In the past, I used a short story or first free books in other series as a magnet and that didn't work as well. This time around, I had four short stories featuring the character of my new series, and I also wrote an 18K novella. I bundled those up in one set, created a really nice landing page through Mailerlite, and ran a Facebook ad about a month before launch. That got me some initial subscribers. My book has sold almost 2000 copies in the first month and I've got the magnet in both the front and back matter, and right now I'm sitting on just over 100 subscribers.

It's not a lot, but it's organic and the overall open rate is 91% with a click rate of 85%. So these are people who want to be on the list.

Of course, organic subscribers are a bit harder to get these days. Amazon will start a book after the front matter and will bring up the review prompt as soon as you turn the last page, so many people miss the reader magnet pitch. I wish there was a better way around that, but not sure what it would be.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I started a new list for my latest series and I did something different this time around. In the past, I used a short story or first free books in other series as a magnet and that didn't work as well. This time around, I had four short stories featuring the character of my new series, and I also wrote an 18K novella. I bundled those up in one set, created a really nice landing page through Mailerlite, and ran a Facebook ad about a month before launch. That got me some initial subscribers. My book has sold almost 2000 copies in the first month and I've got the magnet in both the front and back matter, and right now I'm sitting on just over 100 subscribers.
> 
> It's not a lot, but it's organic and the overall open rate is 91% with a click rate of 85%. So these are people who want to be on the list.
> 
> Of course, organic subscribers are a bit harder to get these days. Amazon will start a book after the front matter and will bring up the review prompt as soon as you turn the last page, so many people miss the reader magnet pitch. I wish there was a better way around that, but not sure what it would be.


Sweet Perry, that was just the kind of data I was looking for. So it looks like 5%. Based on my 500 total sales of my first book thus far I think I'm also within that threshold (About 2. This is good to know!


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## LAStriker (Jul 1, 2017)

This is my first post, please be gentle. I've written 3 superhero novellas (in the range of 29k each) The story for my 4th is ready, the chapter titles are complete, I just have to write the story. My expected target audience is younger (although I think any age will enjoy the stories), yet my main protagonist is 24 and the main villain is 30. From what I'm reading, this takes my stories out of the middle grade or young adult arena even though most of my characters graduate from high school in the first book. I'm wondering if that's the case, should I make the 3 books I've completed into novels and make them a little more adult oriented? Or should I keep them as they are (I basically wrote them because I remembered how much I enjoyed the good vs. evil from the comics of my youth before they turned into dark and death comics everywhere. I haven't had a character die, just exploring their new found powers to either fight crime or commit crime, depending on the path they've chosen. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the subject. The basis of my stories are a doctor who tries to create a formula to help people, accidentally creates a blast that showers a number of students with his formula. They begin to develop a variety of super powers. The doctor's brain is damaged by the blast and once he learns of the people gaining powers due to his formula, his warped brain makes him want to destroy them. I've read a lot of the comments posted on this thread, there is a lot of interesting and informative stuff! 

Thanks for any feedback!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

It may not qualify as YA, but that's no reason to make it more adult. 

Turning them into novels might be good advice, though. The better-selling books in the superhero books seem to be novel-length as opposed to novella.


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## LAStriker (Jul 1, 2017)

Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it! 

P.S. I get a kick of my status on here being Dr. Seuss... =)


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## LAStriker (Jul 1, 2017)

I'm trying to determine which way to go with my stories. I've completed 3 of them already and all are around 29k words. My thought at first was they would be good for younger people to read, since they aren't overly violent, there have been no deaths, and there aren't any sexual or drug references. I thought a smaller book would make it easier for a younger reader to complete them. Plus I've packed a lot of action in, once I set the stage with the characters. I understand that I can't consider the books MG or YA because my main protagonist is 24 years old (well, I've read that it's the case, can't say I actually understand the reasoning). In the opinion of those on this thread, would there be enough of an audience for my books at the length they are currently, or should I consider targeting an older audience and make them into novels instead? I have to admit I like my stories the way they are, but if no one will read them because they are too short, it defeats the purpose of writing them. Thanks in advance for your comments.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

You don't necessarily have to write to an older audience, but I would recommend shooting for a longer length, somewhere in the 50-70K range.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

And my 25k short is finally done! Our little heroine is a witch that's being bullied at school. She gives up and decides she'll be a SUPERHERO instead! *fanfare* It follows your basic origin tropes closely and it's not Harry Potter meets the X-Men so I'm pleased with how it turned out. I don't like the cover, though, so I'll probably change that later.

I'm in a superhero category so that's good but something (witch? magic? fantasy?) in my keywords has plopped me into swords and sorcery, too. Not a sword in sight. Is it worth asking Amazon to change it? 

I also have a fear that it's too betwixt and between genres to be of great interest to fans of Harry Potter or fans of the X-Men.  Eh, we'll see how it goes.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jessie G. Talbot said:


> I'm in a superhero category so that's good but something (witch? magic? fantasy?) in my keywords has plopped me into swords and sorcery, too. Not a sword in sight. Is it worth asking Amazon to change it?


I would. Look through Amazon's Kindle categories, find all the ones your book is a good fit for, and email KDP Support. Tell them to remove you from the Swords & Sorcery category and tell them you want to be inserted into these other categories.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I would. Look through Amazon's Kindle categories, find all the ones your book is a good fit for, and email KDP Support. Tell them to remove you from the Swords & Sorcery category and tell them you want to be inserted into these other categories.


Will do, thanks.


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## gtvManager (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey guys. New to KBoards, but not new to superheroes or writing!

The quickie: I've published my first superhero trilogy, which has done really well compared to my past fantasy attempt (thud), and nearly as good as my horror series that has fallen off the cliff since a few years ago (at least haunted houses are getting a renaissance now!). Looking to outline a few more books in this hero series and continue on with my lingering plot threads.

What do my superheroes wear? Well, Fallout has a more home-made costume consisting of a silk-screened T-shirt with a purple electric bolt across the chest. Instead of a cape, he usually wears a dark jacket. To hide his face, he has a visor that wraps around his eyes, using the tech to see data like distances, maps, energy levels, etc. He hasn't been found out by the mass media yet!

Mecha, the female heroine, also wears a home-made costume. She loves pinks and purple, so the half-mask is purple to hide her features, and she has a pair of boots with retractable spikes in the soles for combat. Her powers unfortunately don't include anything like energy manipulation or super strength. But, she won't let that stop her! She's always upgrading her own tech.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Welcome to the superhero thread, gtvManager! Got to watch out for that mass media. I'm actually planning on someone "unmasking" one of my supers who thinks running around in big sunglasses will work for a disguise. Eventually. Not for the WIP, but later books. 

Jesse G. Talbot: Good luck! It'll be interesting to see how your short goes!


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## gtvManager (Aug 14, 2017)

Thanks!

I am always intrigued by the unmasking plots. It's a good motivator for rivals or villains because it sets up a sort of witch-hunt to the story. Kind of makes me think of how that hero won't be able to have privacy once everyone knows who they are. Do superheroes who are unmasked get assistants to go grocery shopping for them?


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Hey everybody! I'm doing another Instafreebie Giveaway specifically featuring Superheroes. I'd love to have you join! The directions are on the giveaway and will run from October 1 - 31. It's a great way to help build your mailing list!

https://www.instafreebie.com/groupgiveaway/view/56ade09c42ca81d2a1782943b984868b


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

gtvManager said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I am always intrigued by the unmasking plots. It's a good motivator for rivals or villains because it sets up a sort of witch-hunt to the story. Kind of makes me think of how that hero won't be able to have privacy once everyone knows who they are. Do superheroes who are unmasked get assistants to go grocery shopping for them?


Probably depends, like with celebs. Some celebs can wander around makeup free and hardly ever get noticed, especially if they use the go-to inoffensive ball cap, no makeup, and big sunglasses disguise. Other celebs have to be conscious of their brand 24/7 while they're out and dodge paparazzi. If they do have problems with fans, they might need a shopper, dependent on their power set/morality/wanted status with police.

Bet being unmasked is handy once their kids reach dating age, though. Brings a whole new meaning to "Don't make me come looking for you"


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## gtvManager (Aug 14, 2017)

kdiem said:


> Probably depends, like with celebs. Some celebs can wander around makeup free and hardly ever get noticed, especially if they use the go-to inoffensive ball cap, no makeup, and big sunglasses disguise. Other celebs have to be conscious of their brand 24/7 while they're out and dodge paparazzi. If they do have problems with fans, they might need a shopper, dependent on their power set/morality/wanted status with police.
> 
> Bet being unmasked is handy once their kids reach dating age, though. Brings a whole new meaning to "Don't make me come looking for you"


Heh heh! I just got an image of the other end of the spectrum where someone with superpowers who is by nature a total dope tries - successfully, or not - to use his or her powers to woo their crush. Then they really _would_ need someone to go out in public for them to avoid embarrassment!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Thought I'd resurrect the sleeping monster and see if you all can help with a quick blurb. It'll go up on my website Friday, so I do need to get it done. It's for a newsletter subscriber freebie (for now, anyway). Anyway, thoughts? The story's a little more serious than my usual, but still in the optimistic tone of the series. 

----

Zita Garcia is a superhero with a plan. While the two of them are on a multi-day road trip to their mother's home, she'd bring up her brother Quentin's recent bad behavior, he'd see reason, and everyone would be happy in time for Thanksgiving. Since neither one of them wants to incur their mother's wrath, he can't kick her out of the car and she can't do any spinning drop kicks when he annoys her.

Of course, Zita isn't known for her diplomacy, so her plan had flaws from the start, even before she ran across a teary teenager and a rampaging pink monster.

Good thing she's got all her wits, and some pie. Or at least the pie.


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## antcurious (Jun 2, 2017)

kdiem said:


> Thought I'd resurrect the sleeping monster and see if you all can help with a quick blurb. It'll go up on my website Friday, so I do need to get it done. It's for a newsletter subscriber freebie (for now, anyway). Anyway, thoughts? The story's a little more serious than my usual, but still in the optimistic tone of the series.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


Firstly, thanks for resurrecting (Is that your superpower?) this thread!

Secondly, love the blurb...just a few things I stumbled over. (Doesn't take much, I'm clumsy)

1. It's not immediately obvious who 'the two of them' are. After reading the entire sentence, yes, but I wanted to stop and ask who, since you opened with just Zita. So maybe restructure this sentence a bit.

2. Maybe "...her plan contained flaws from the start,..."

3. Would be cool to bring it full circle to the first sentence in a more obvious way? Something like: "So yes, Zita is a superhero with a plan. She's also one that is without diplomacy, so the whole thing was flawed even before..."

4. Like the last line, it is very much your humour (been lurking the hell out of this thread)


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

antcurious said:


> Firstly, thanks for resurrecting (Is that your superpower?) this thread!
> 
> Secondly, love the blurb...just a few things I stumbled over. (Doesn't take much, I'm clumsy)
> 
> ...


Thanks!

1. Still thinking about how I want to reword it. 
2. Thinking about rephrasing that line as: Of course, Zita isn't known for her diplomacy, so her plan began unraveling even before the teary teenager and the rampaging pink monster showed up. 
3. It's pretty short, so I don't know if I'm going to restate it... 
4. Thanks.

No need to just lurk. We're all friendly and non-Spandex judgemental here.


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## antcurious (Jun 2, 2017)

kdiem said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 1. Still thinking about how I want to reword it.
> 2. Thinking about rephrasing that line as: Of course, Zita isn't known for her diplomacy, so her plan began unraveling even before the teary teenager and the rampaging pink monster showed up.
> ...


haha thanks! And it goes without saying my opinions on a blurb need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt!


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## Whit Bailey (Nov 2, 2015)

Thank you for reviving this thread! I’m new to Kboards and just starting on my publishing journey. Superheroes is the genre that excites me most. I’m currently working on a short reads cliffhanger series that crosses genres and introduces new characters after each story arc. While my first arc deals with supernatural western, the next arc will be golden age superhero! This thread looks like a great place to find out what’s going on in the genre!


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

antcurious said:


> haha thanks! And it goes without saying my opinions on a blurb need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt!


No worries. I'm all about listening to the feedback, and then implementing only that which I feel is helpful to the reader. After all, the goal of any blurb is to let readers know if they'd like your books or not especially when you're not in KU and want them to actually shell out money for it.



Whit Bailey said:


> Thank you for reviving this thread! I'm new to Kboards and just starting on my publishing journey. Superheroes is the genre that excites me most. I'm currently working on a short reads cliffhanger series that crosses genres and introduces new characters after each story arc. While my first arc deals with supernatural western, the next arc will be golden age superhero! This thread looks like a great place to find out what's going on in the genre!


Sounds like an ambitious project! Most of the time this thread is pretty quiet, but now and again some rabble rouser revs everyone up or posts something helpful about marketing to superhero readers.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Huzzah, the superhero thread is back!

I don't have anything to contribute (still chugging away at book 3, will hide in obscurity without any marketing until it's done) but it's nice to see familiar faces here.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> Huzzah, the superhero thread is back!
> 
> I don't have anything to contribute (still chugging away at book 3, will hide in obscurity without any marketing until it's done) but it's nice to see familiar faces here.


Welcome back! Obscurity is a cozy place to be for now.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

I was thinking about running a promo Jan 1-15 for Sci Fi and Fantasy. It would be to give away complete stories or books (no incomplete stuff). People might be looking for freebies to put on their new ereaders, right? This would be open to all of Sci Fi but I'm floating the idea here first because I want to see if there's enough interest to have a solid superhero group represented. 

Bookfunnel's not as big as Instafreebie on giveaways yet, but the delivery method is easy for readers and it's cheaper per month for me. 

My biggest things are: 

1. Would the rest of you be interested in joining in such a promo? 

2. Is there a kind soul who could throw together a graphic for the header? I am hopeless at graphics. In exchange, I would be willing to give you a token so you could collect email addresses on Bookfunnel without paying for an account yourself (good for one month's use or 1000 addresses) or set your freebie at the top of the page. Otherwise, I'll have to hit fiverr or something. 

I get two of the tokens every month so two people who don't have Bookfunnel could use the giveaway feature for the promo - one for the graphic artist if they want it, and the other to whoever asks first.


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## antcurious (Jun 2, 2017)

kdiem said:


> I was thinking about running a promo Jan 1-15 for Sci Fi and Fantasy. It would be to give away complete stories or books (no incomplete stuff). People might be looking for freebies to put on their new ereaders, right? This would be open to all of Sci Fi but I'm floating the idea here first because I want to see if there's enough interest to have a solid superhero group represented.
> 
> Bookfunnel's not as big as Instafreebie on giveaways yet, but the delivery method is easy for readers and it's cheaper per month for me.
> 
> ...


If my novel is done in time...well up for it! Regarding the banner, If you haven't had any help closer to the time, I know someone... but I'll have to pay with a footrub or something (She's my wife, in case anyone thinks that's how I pay for all outsourced work).

Think it's a great idea!


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## Whit Bailey (Nov 2, 2015)

Are there any book promotion websites or Facebook groups strictly for Kindle superhero books?


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Whit Bailey said:


> Are there any book promotion websites or Facebook groups strictly for Kindle superhero books?


For promoting them? I don't know.

For networking with other superhero authors and bouncing marketing ideas off each other? Perry Constantine has a FB group. Promoting your book in the group is NOT allowed. I assume it has lots of pajama parties and cookie sacrifices to Bookbub.

I believe Perry's group is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indiesuperheroauthors/ 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the URL. If I'm wrong about the parties and sacrifices, let me keep my happy illusions.


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## Whit Bailey (Nov 2, 2015)

kdiem said:


> For promoting them? I don't know.
> 
> For networking with other superhero authors and bouncing marketing ideas off each other? Perry Constantine has a FB group. Promoting your book in the group is NOT allowed. I assume it has lots of pajama parties and cookie sacrifices to Bookbub.
> 
> ...


Awesome! I will check it out!

Yes - I was curious if there was a place specifically for superhero book promotions. I'll keep searching and report back here if I find a good one!

Thanks again!


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## antcurious (Jun 2, 2017)

Whit Bailey said:


> Awesome! I will check it out!
> 
> Yes - I was curious if there was a place specifically for superhero book promotions. I'll keep searching and report back here if I find a good one!
> 
> Thanks again!


Hi Whit. I know there is a group promotion coming up on Instafreebie if that would interest you. January I think...


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

My new standalone won't be done until April or May, so I have to hide in obscurity for a while longer.   I want to channel my efforts and do everything at the same time - the duology release, the third book, and the marketing for both. Plus, I might make the first two novels unavailable for sale (as individual books) and establish the duology - which was originally meant to be one single book in the first place - as the entry point to the series. Too many readers comment that they are unimpressed with the first book, which really is just half a book and filled to the brim with build-up. I need to stop trying to sell half a book.

Best of luck with the promo, though!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

kdiem said:


> I was thinking about running a promo Jan 1-15 for Sci Fi and Fantasy. It would be to give away complete stories or books (no incomplete stuff). People might be looking for freebies to put on their new ereaders, right? This would be open to all of Sci Fi but I'm floating the idea here first because I want to see if there's enough interest to have a solid superhero group represented.
> 
> Bookfunnel's not as big as Instafreebie on giveaways yet, but the delivery method is easy for readers and it's cheaper per month for me.
> 
> ...


I'd be willing to participate and I could make the banner. Have you posted this in the Facebook group?


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> I'd be willing to participate and I could make the banner. Have you posted this in the Facebook group?


Well, that's two interested parties.  Feel free to post it in the FB group. I'm pretty available here, Twitter, and off my website links if anyone has questions.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

You should probably create a sign-up form through Google or something so I have something to send people to.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> You should probably create a sign-up form through Google or something so I have something to send people to.


Dang, that sounds like WORK.  I was just trying to gauge interest.

Since I've had one or two people reply with interest here, I've set it all up in Bookfunnel and on my website.

If people want to read my website on it before they go sign up to the promo on Bookfunnel, here's the link: http://www.karendiem.com/freebie-promo/.

If they want to go right to the promo and sign up there, here's that link: 
https://dashboard.bookfunnel.com/bundles/board/gkfkiv45mc.

I'll post something to main Kboards in a few days, but I was hoping to let superhero folks be at the top of the page.  Cause we rock.


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## skylarker1 (Aug 21, 2016)

kdiem said:


> I was thinking about running a promo Jan 1-15 for Sci Fi and Fantasy. It would be to give away complete stories or books (no incomplete stuff). People might be looking for freebies to put on their new ereaders, right? This would be open to all of Sci Fi but I'm floating the idea here first because I want to see if there's enough interest to have a solid superhero group represented.
> 
> Bookfunnel's not as big as Instafreebie on giveaways yet, but the delivery method is easy for readers and it's cheaper per month for me.
> 
> ...


I don't like making my books free - I'd like to go a couple more months without doing so before applying for a Bookbub - but I'd be interested in doing a prize-based promo such as RyanZee runs. A few winners get free copies of all the entry books, but we don't have to reduce the list price.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

skylarker1 said:


> I don't like making my books free - I'd like to go a couple more months without doing so before applying for a Bookbub - but I'd be interested in doing a prize-based promo such as RyanZee runs. A few winners get free copies of all the entry books, but we don't have to reduce the list price.


I understand. My own offering is a short story available only to my newsletter people for free.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I had a cool idea for a story but the main characters are villains (or are becoming villains) instead of heroes. There are no super heroes in the story.


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## Whit Bailey (Nov 2, 2015)

geronl said:


> I had a cool idea for a story but the main characters are villains (or are becoming villains) instead of heroes. There are no super heroes in the story.


I like it!


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## jeremyflagg (Oct 28, 2016)

Trish Heinrich and I are putting together a "First in Series" Box Set for Superhero books. If you are interested, please fill out the Google Form. This is not a commitment, we're gathering data to see where the potential is. Please carefully read the requirements on the form. This is for a FIRST in series that you have the rights for. https://goo.gl/forms/6fcrR3Ae8UT2kfSZ2


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## antcurious (Jun 2, 2017)

I'm bumping and thanking this thread for the knowledge and inspiration to complete and publish my first little book, The Oscillator.
One of many I hope!

(Have read this entire thread twice through and will probably go for a third

Anton


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Happy new year, superhero authors! Hope your year ahead is filled with books and profits and all things good.

Unless you're a supervillain whose success would cause trouble for the rest of us, in which case, I'll clarify that to mean that I hope your books sell well and you recover from being pummeled by superheroes well. And that all your plots fail in ways that make the other supervillains jealous.



antcurious said:


> I'm bumping and thanking this thread for the knowledge and inspiration to complete and publish my first little book, The Oscillator.
> One of many I hope!
> 
> (Have read this entire thread twice through and will probably go for a third
> ...


Congrats, Anton! Welcome to the club!


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## antcurious (Jun 2, 2017)

kdiem said:


> Happy new year, superhero authors! Hope your year ahead is filled with books and profits and all things good.
> 
> Unless you're a supervillain whose success would cause trouble for the rest of us, in which case, I'll clarify that to mean that I hope your books sell well and you recover from being pummeled by superheroes well. And that all your plots fail in ways that make the other supervillains jealous.
> 
> Congrats, Anton! Welcome to the club!


Happy new year to you too, may the words flow like... some flowy thingamijing...


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## Jim Bernheimer (Jul 21, 2010)

Have only recently come back to Kindleboards after a long hiatus and noticed this thread.  I'm Jim Bernheimer, the author of Confessions of a D-List Supervillain along with the prequel and two sequels in that series.  They've done quite well and I'm proud of them.  I'm also the owner of Amber Cove Publishing which includes C. T. Phipps' Rules of Supervillainy and three sequels.  I figured I'd stop in and say hello and offer my encouragement to everyone.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

Jim Bernheimer said:


> Have only recently come back to Kindleboards after a long hiatus and noticed this thread. I'm Jim Bernheimer, the author of Confessions of a D-List Supervillain along with the prequel and two sequels in that series. They've done quite well and I'm proud of them. I'm also the owner of Amber Cove Publishing which includes C. T. Phipps' Rules of Supervillainy and three sequels. I figured I'd stop in and say hello and offer my encouragement to everyone.


Hey Jim! 
Welcome to the superhero clubhouse on Kboards!


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Jim Bernheimer said:


> Have only recently come back to Kindleboards after a long hiatus and noticed this thread. I'm Jim Bernheimer, the author of Confessions of a D-List Supervillain along with the prequel and two sequels in that series. They've done quite well and I'm proud of them. I'm also the owner of Amber Cove Publishing which includes C. T. Phipps' Rules of Supervillainy and three sequels. I figured I'd stop in and say hello and offer my encouragement to everyone.


Jim,

Great to see you on Kboards. You probably don't remember, but we exchanged emails a few times years ago. Terry Ervin recommended that I read you book, and I took to it, and the genre, so much that I ended up writing my own superhero novel. I think that _Confessions_ will always remain my favorite.

Brian


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## RH Tucker (Nov 5, 2017)

Hey superhero writers

Those of you who have published superhero books, what are your thoughts of KU or Wide, as far as it pertains to the superhero genre? Obviously, building your readership over time and being wide would be ideal, but if you just started publishing your book, did you choose one or the other? How did it go? And if you were wide and decided to go KU, or vice-versa, how did that go for you?


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

I don't think KU existed when I started publishing.  That said, I was wide for a couple of years and initially resisted the urge to join when KU came along because I despised the exclusivity option (and still do).  Eventually, however, I gave it a try when the implemented KU 2.0...and got something like 300,000 page reads in my first 10 days.  That amounted to more than I was earning on other platforms, so I've stuck with KU since.  I may try going wide again one day soon, but at the moment I'm content.


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## RH Tucker (Nov 5, 2017)

KevinH said:


> I don't think KU existed when I started publishing. That said, I was wide for a couple of years and initially resisted the urge to join when KU came along because I despised the exclusivity option (and still do). Eventually, however, I gave it a try when the implemented KU 2.0...and got something like 300,000 page reads in my first 10 days. That amounted to more than I was earning on other platforms, so I've stuck with KU since. I may try going wide again one day soon, but at the moment I'm content.


Interesting, thanks for the input.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

RH Tucker said:


> Hey superhero writers
> 
> Those of you who have published superhero books, what are your thoughts of KU or Wide, as far as it pertains to the superhero genre? Obviously, building your readership over time and being wide would be ideal, but if you just started publishing your book, did you choose one or the other? How did it go? And if you were wide and decided to go KU, or vice-versa, how did that go for you?


I went with KU because I figured not many readers would give me a chance otherwise. As expected, most of my income comes from page reads. For that reason I'm keeping the main series in KU, but will go wide with the standalone - also because I'd like to serialize it on my blog after its initial KU term is up.


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## RH Tucker (Nov 5, 2017)

C. Rysalis said:


> I went with KU because I figured not many readers would give me a chance otherwise. As expected, most of my income comes from page reads. For that reason I'm keeping the main series in KU, but will go wide with the standalone - also because I'd like to serialize it on my blog after its initial KU term is up.


That's a good idea about serializing.


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