# UPDATED: I don't believe in making books free



## rubyscribe (Jun 2, 2011)

Last year, for almost 2 months, I made a short story free, by price matching. There were upwards of 3,000 downloads on Amazon. I don't know the numbers for Nook since I go through SW. The gain from that free short story, inspired from real events, was a lone 3-star review on Amazon, that said the foreign names were confusing (duh!). Nook scored better with 3 favorable reviews and 1 unfavorable.

Apart from that in exactly one year of being published, I have also given out free copies of my fiction and non-fiction books. Mind you, I only request for reviews from people who have posted that they want books to review. Yet getting reviews has been like pulling out teeth. Excuses have ranged from arrogant "I'll get to it in a few months (if you're that busy why seek yet more books?) to absurd, My dog caught laryngitis and my car got totaled and my basement had a rat invasion (OK, not exactly that, but something like that).

I also admit that I feel that people have gotten addicted to free books because of Select. Authors congregate sites promoting free books, to get the word out about their book going free. Hoards of readers get giddy (picture the screaming women on Oprah). I have concluded with anecdotal evidence, that we have spoiled good, honest, paying readers. There are plenty who knows some good book/s in their favorite genres, would be free everyday, who why buy? I enrolled my book on select and I have decided not to go free, especially since some people posted here that the sales boost post free days, has vanished.

I do not support making a book free. My novel is to debut soon and I have no intentions of giving away any free copies. People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing.

I would love to see someone prove me wrong here!

UPDATE: After reading the posts, it appears that the first in a series made free, boost sales of the others that follow. _Some_ authors have had luck with going free and others have not.

I see your point about ARC and I think yes, that's a risk authors must take. A maximum of 50 review copies (e-books) sent at no cost, is an investment that may very yield high dividends. Reviews sell books, afterall. If people get lazy, then we have to factor that in.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Do whatever you think is right for you. I'll do what's right for me.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm sorry free hasn't been a good strategy for you. The way Select works has changed the playing field, however, plenty of people still buy books and plenty of people are still finding success using free/Select as part of their marketing strategy.

You have to do what works for you.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't know of any indie ebooks that make it onto the bestseller lists for their genres without going free. When you've had a month of zero sales on your new eBook, you may change your mind. 

Your book needs to be discovered by readers, while not the best option, right now for indies free/Select is the only way most of our books will be discovered. If I could find an effecive way to jumpstart sales without giving them free, I would. 

I gave 2600+ copies of Book 1 free the first week of June. I sold approx. 250 copies of 1,2, & 3 from that promotion. My other book has sold over 700 copies, but that's because of the ENT ad. I may put Book 1 back into Select again. (Right now I'm selling books on B&N too.)


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

There's a very long list of things I don't believe in, but successfully selling an indie ebook in today's market without doing free day promotions is not one of them.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2012)

Ruby quote:

*"People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing."*

Amen to that.

Did the publisher of Gone With the Wind give away free copies because Margaret Mitchell was unknown?

How many copies of Peyton Place were given away because it was written by an uinknown?

Janet Dailey was an unknown until Harlequin published her. But her first books were not free.

If you spent time and creative energy in crafting a book, then you're not begging if you put a price on it.

Harlan Ellison would not write a sentence for free. Maybe for a dime or quarter if approached right. But he would expect some compensation because he's a PROFESSIONAL writer. He's not a hobbyist.


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## Paul G (Apr 9, 2011)

I can see what you mean but I do have to say that short bursts of "free" worked well for me. It can really help to put just one book for free (for a few days) and then have other books you are selling in the same genre that are not free. Another strategy that has worked is to have one book free all the time and keep the rest of your books paid (and maybe a few free days here and there for them as well).


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Harlan Ellison would not write a sentence for free. Maybe for a dime or quarter if approached right. But he would expect some compensation because he's a PROFESSIONAL writer. He's not a hobbyist.


I'll do whatever works. Best of luck to Harlan. I'm content to be called a professional or a hobbyist. The most precise description is a guy who writes books and sells them on Amazon. But some other descriptions have been suggested over the years.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm neither for nor against "free" books. I see this as a promotional trick to be used when it suits me, which is to say when I see an advantage in it. At this point, barely four months after my first book, and just barely three weeks after releasing my first novel, such a move seems premature. My impression (gained from reading things here) is that people with multiple books available _in general_ are the ones who most consistently benefit from this program. I'm not there, yet, so I won't leap on Select as a make or break option. I'll write the next book, and then see how things look to me when I'm ready to publish it.


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## Chloe Piper (Jun 26, 2012)

I debated making my first story free, but have ultimately decided against it. Coming from another creative profession where offering work for free is anathema in the industry and generally results in the person giving the work away shooting themselves in the foot, I'm leery of the whole idea of offering work for free initially. I may consider making earlier stories in my current series free when I'm further along in the series and want to hook newcomers, but not right now.


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

rubyscribe said:


> Last year, for almost 2 months, I made a short story free, by price matching. There were upwards of 3,000 downloads on Amazon. I don't know the numbers for Nook since I go through SW. The gain from that free short story, inspired from real events, was a lone 3-star review on Amazon, that said the foreign names were confusing (duh!). Nook scored better with 3 favorable reviews and 1 unfavorable.
> 
> Apart from that in exactly one year of being published, I have also given out free copies of my fiction and non-fiction books. Mind you, I only request for reviews from people who have posted that they want books to review. Yet getting reviews has been like pulling out teeth. Excuses have ranged from arrogant "I'll get to it in a few months (if you're that busy why seek yet more books?) to absurd, My dog caught laryngitis and my car got totaled and my basement had a rat invasion (OK, not exactly that, but something like that).
> 
> ...


Making books free doesn't make a non-appealing book appealing except for when it's free. There are so many factors that go into a successful book, and if you don't hit on at least a few of those factors, you can pay people to download your book and it won't help sales in the long run. You should consider how you can make your books better and more appealing, maybe? Because the free route may not be a necessity, but it can be an extremely effective launching point for many books.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2012)

rubyscribe said:


> I do not support making a book free. My novel is to debut soon and I have no intentions of giving away any free copies. People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing.


Totally agree.

I plan to price mine around $9 or so, then telling people that I can only get drunk and high enough to write if they actually _pay_ me to keep the supply flowing.

People have been spoiled by "free" music and movie torrents, and now when someone asks them to pay, they make up excuses like "information should be free" and "you should do it for the love of the art, not for profit" as they steal your hard-fought work.


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

I don't agree with putting my books up for free, however, I don't sell anything at all unless I do.  I've been featured on a number of blogger sites, have good followings on Facebook and Twitter yet none have equated to a single sale.  I completely refuse to put my novel up for free, but I regularly have free promos on my short stories, all of which come packaged with the first few novel chapters.  I usually get about 100 downloads followed by a knock on sale or two.  It's not big, but its better than nothing, which is what I was selling before.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Question for those adamantly opposed to offering their books for free: Do you feel it's okay to give your book to a reviewer for free? Or does that devalue it as well? If not, why not?


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm sorry free hasn't worked for you. But I don't think you are using it right, or for long enough.

Free shorts work, when your novel is already out. You put the first 5 chapters or something in the back and hope to hook readers so they'll buy your novel.

Getting reviews of free ebooks is notoriously hard (at least on Amazon). I have one book that I've given out about 50,000 copies that's only had 3 reviews. 
Actually it has had more than 3 reviews, but the rest are from reviews who I sent free copies too, or to KB members who reviewed it (not at my request and not friends, but regular members I don't (or at the time didn't) know well who read it, liked it and thought it would be nice to leave me a review).

But my point is: 3 review in 50,000 copies!

Now, it's your call if you want to use free or not. Just know that price-matching free shorts is a long-term thing.

Best of Luck!


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Did the publisher of Gone With the Wind give away free copies because Margaret Mitchell was unknown?


Yep.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

George Berger said:


> _Did the publisher of Gone With the Wind give away free copies because Margaret Mitchell was unknown?_
> Yep.


Giving free copies to reviewers is a time honored tradition. Reviewers expect it (and rightfully so).


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Chloe Piper said:


> I debated making my first story free, but have ultimately decided against it. Coming from another creative profession where offering work for free is anathema in the industry and generally results in the person giving the work away shooting themselves in the foot, I'm leery of the whole idea of offering work for free initially. I may consider making earlier stories in my current series free when I'm further along in the series and want to hook newcomers, but not right now.


It's worked for a few people, giving their one title exposure, but I think for most it makes sense to have more titles out first before putting anything up for free. Then people who like that will have something else to buy.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

In my opinion, free works best when you have a series. It gives readers a reason to buy the rest of your books. Any time I've made the first book in one of my series free I've seen enormous success. I wouldn't recommend going free for anyone else unless you have an extensive catalog of single titles.


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

sicklove said:


> ...People have been spoiled by "free" music and movie torrents, and now when someone asks them to pay, they make up excuses like "information should be free" and "you should do it for the love of the art, not for profit" as they steal your hard-fought work.


And yet people are STILL buying BluRays, DVDs, and downloading movies and music from iTunes, Amazon, etc. Even the free, original content available from YouTube now hasn't killed the marketplace. So I think all of the people I've heard say "people are getting spoiled by free books" are just spewing sour grapes because it hasn't worked for them.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Everyone has to do what's right for them. None of my books has ever been free. They've never been $.99. When they get reviewed it's because some reviewer got curious and picked one up him/herself. But I was fortunate enough to start out at a time when you could mention your book on the Amazon forums, and my first book was a cozy dog mystery, which about had a built in starter audience of people who like dogs. My romances are in a subgenre that has been neglected for a long time and has readers hungry for new stories. Also while my sales are at a level I'm happy with, some people would not be. And I'm not going to say I'd never do free. Someday I might try it.


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## AmberC (Mar 28, 2012)

I can't think of any other single reason our books are selling. They went free and got exposure and got on lists and people then bought them from those lists. 
What other way will they be found in a virtual sea of books? 
I like Elle's Costco example but I am also a musician so I think of as similar as giving away a single for radio play. A song given away on the radio has sold full collections in the very same way.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Sweetapple said:


> I can't think of any other single reason our books are selling. They went free and got exposure and got on lists and people then bought them from those lists.
> What other way will they be found in a virtual sea of books?
> I like Elle's Costco example but I am also a musician so I think of as similar as giving away a single for radio play. A song given away on the radio has sold full collections in the very same way.


Heck yes. I find new music I like on Youtube and then go buy it and other songs by the same artists on iTunes. Free=Purchases. But only if the FREE is GOOD. I don't buy the crappy music I hear on Youtube. Why waste the money? Why fill up my iPhone with junk?


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

> Ever been to a Costco? Probably not. I don't think they have them in Pakistan. But it's a big store that sells just about everything. They give away free food samples and sell the hell out of the food as a result. People like a taste before they buy.


But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do.

ARCs (Advance Reading Copies) are a tradition. They aren't handed out on street corners, though. Publishers target them to reviewers and retail outlets.

I'm not going to excorciate anyone for doing book giveaways, but the practice seems to be losing its effectiveness as a marketing tool. I don't think that it's at all *necessary* to achieve success. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't have any kind of brilliant marketing strategy. I seem to sell the most when I market the least.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

LilianaHart said:


> In my opinion, free works best when you have a series. It gives readers a reason to buy the rest of your books. Any time I've made the first book in one of my series free I've seen enormous success. I wouldn't recommend going free for anyone else unless you have an extensive catalog of single titles.


Agreed. There is a thread right here on KB with last month's sales numbers and a few of us posted we have one book free (the first one in our series). There were a few of us that reported we made in the five figures last month. I'm one of those people and I only have two books out right now. So one free and one not free.

Believe in what works for you. Free worked for me.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do.


Maybe it's not a perfect analogy with cheese, but I will say that I don't need to eat the entire bag of chicken nuggets to know I want to buy a bag of chicken nuggets. I only need to eat one. But if I didn't taste that one chicken nugget, maybe I wouldn't even realize I was in the mood for chicken nuggets. Or maybe I'd go buy the chicken nuggets that had the prettier package ... or the ones that came in dinosaur shapes.

See, the bag of chicken nuggets is the author's work (maybe they're different shapes, but they all have the same style and taste); so if I like one nugget/book, I'll probably like them all. I'll buy the entire bag if the nugget was crispy, filled with real chicken and not chicken sponge, and has decent seasoning on it.

That's my point. And now I'm hungry. And there ARE NO COSTCOS IN FRANCE!!


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

_ "People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing."_

You might be more successful taking a different viewpoint: "Authors who spend weeks months or years writing a book should ensure they make it good enough to tempt readers to pay a few dollars for it".

Joe


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Steeplechasing said:


> _ "People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing."_
> 
> You might be more successful taking a different viewpoint: "Authors who spend weeks months or years writing a book should ensure they make it good enough to tempt readers to pay a few dollars for it".
> 
> Joe


That works for me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Jan Strnad said:


> But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do.


I just got a free dozen eggs at Safeway. 

Betsy


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

Jan Strnad said:


> But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do...


And people don't buy music or purchase movies from seeing or hearing "a bite" of the product. You don't have to eat a whole bucket of cheese to see how good it tastes. The problem with Amazon's sample or "Look Inside" is that a lot of people won't even touch those if the book doesn't initially attract their attention. A free download will entice more people to give a book a try.


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do.


There's a slight problem with that analogy, IMO. With cheese or chocolate, it's safe to assume that the first bite and the last bite will be of equal quality. But that's not the case with fiction, because an otherwise decent story can be completely ruined by a boring middle, or, especially, if the writer drops the ball at the end.

That's why giving away an entire story could be a more effective promotional strategy, because the reader can see if the writer is good enough to sustain the narrative drive throughout the entire story, or if they can only manage to write an interesting beginning.


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## AmberC (Mar 28, 2012)

Good deal Betsy! My family can eat two dozen for breakfast!


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Right.  So like with the music example, you like the song on Youtube, you go over to itunes and buy it.  Then you listen to a 1 minute sample of another song by the same band (who you already know can write a great song, beginning to end) and you decide to give it a shot and buy that one too.  So once you know a band/author can execute, you feel safer investing your money on other things they've done.

A single chicken nugget and a chunk of cheese off the wheel is like getting the whole 1st book free.  You buy the rest of the product (a whole bag of nuggets, a whole wheel of cheese, other books by the same author) if you liked the first taste.


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> So once you know a band/author can execute, you feel safer investing your money on other things they've done.


Exactly.

And btw, Elle, what is that awesome font you've got on the covers of your War of the Fae books?


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

ShayneHellerman said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And btw, Elle, what is that awesome font you've got on the covers of your War of the Fae books?


I forget what it's called, but you can find it (and a gajillion others) here: www.myfonts.com

I'm a font freak. I waste too much time on that site.  Have fun!


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## Cheryl M. (Jan 11, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Did the publisher of Gone With the Wind give away free copies because Margaret Mitchell was unknown?
> 
> How many copies of Peyton Place were given away because it was written by an uinknown?
> 
> Janet Dailey was an unknown until Harlequin published her. But her first books were not free.


Publishers give books away for free all the time. Free product is a large part of most successful marketing. How much free product varies. Heck, there's free right now for most ebooks. Look inside is a *free* sample.

ETA: hehehe, sorry for just repeating what everyone else already said. I couldn't help responding before finishing the thread.


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

Greg Banks said:


> And people don't buy music or purchase movies from seeing or hearing "a bite" of the product. You don't have to eat a whole bucket of cheese to see how good it tastes. The problem with Amazon's sample or "Look Inside" is that a lot of people won't even touch those if the book doesn't initially attract their attention. A free download will entice more people to give a book a try.


Mmmm.. bucket of cheese.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Ruby quote:
> 
> *"People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing."*
> 
> ...


That's what ARCs are and they are sent out by the hundreds, sometimes by the thousands, so you can bet that ALL of those authors had their books given away for free, including Mr. Ellison.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> That's my point. And now I'm hungry. And there ARE NO COSTCOS IN FRANCE!!


You have Hypermarché instead.

My books have never been free, because I refuse to go exclusive and did not join KDP Select. I'm not saying that I'd never make a book free at all. I may well have a free day or two some day either via price matching or if Amazon ever lets us set our price to free whenever we want.

However, the flood of free books after Select was introduced has significantly hampered the original effectiveness of going free.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

I dont live in the world as I wish it to be, I live in the world as it is.  I utilize real-world strategies that really work.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I just got a free dozen eggs at Safeway.
> 
> Betsy


Just don't start writing something while you cook them.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

YOU GET A FREE BOOK! AND YOU GET A FREE BOOK! AND YOU!!!


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Adam Pepper said:


> I dont live in the world as I wish it to be, I live in the world as it is. I utilize real-world strategies that really work.


What a concept!



CoraBuhlert said:


> You have Hypermarché instead.


You must be joking. Don't even TRY to suggest that Hypermarché is the same as Costco. Where are the wetsuits? Where are the cases of root beer? Where are the bottles of 500 Advil? And the miles of fruit roll-ups? And grandé-sized bags of Doritos? Huh? Nope. I'm sorry, but Hypermarché lives in the shadows of the awesomeness that is Costco. Sadly.

I miss my Coooosttcooooooo!!


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## Margo Karasek (Feb 29, 2012)

Okey Dokey said:


> Ruby quote:
> 
> *"People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing."*
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. Using Gone With the Wind and Peyton Place is inappropriate in this scenario. The publishers didn't give the books away for free because they shelled out a lot of money for other sort of advertising, like those very expensive ad pages in magazines, etc. Nobody would have discovered Margaret Mitchell if her publisher didn't pay dearly to promote her in the beginning. The publisher shelled out the upfront costs. As self-pub authors, few of us have the resources to do that sort of marketing push. To me, the free days somewhat level out the playing field. We hopefully give away a lot of copies--without profit--so that we can gain more visibility. Then readers have the chance to discover us because we can actually be found.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Thomas Watson said:


> Just don't start writing something while you cook them.


Or quilting. I know... 

Betsy


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

But if you go to Costco to buy a book, they don't give you a whole free book.

If you try going around the store and loading up on free food, then picking a book off the rack, opening a bottle of wine, and sitting on the demo sofa and reading, they will ask you to not do that. Kind of unpleasantly, in my opinion. I mean, calling the police was really unnecessary. Really. I'd have paid for the wine and I hardly smudged the book *at all*!

As for chicken nuggets...have you ever seen what they're really made of? If not, don't, not if you ever plan to eat another chicken nugget.

I got a dozen free eggs, too, not long ago. I didn't buy eggs until I'd used up the free ones. What if I could load up my refrigerator with free eggs whenever I wanted? Even if they were all mediums instead of jumbos, I might never buy eggs again. Then again, I rarely hear people talking excitedly about "You've got to eat *this egg*!" An egg is pretty much an egg, though I do pay more for eggs from cage-free/free-range/no drugs/sung to sleep every night hens.

So, I hope I've cleared everything up for everyone.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> You must be joking. Don't even TRY to suggest that Hypermarché is the same as Costco. Where are the wetsuits? Where are the cases of root beer? Where are the bottles of 500 Advil? And the miles of fruit roll-ups? And grandé-sized bags of Doritos? Huh? Nope. I'm sorry, but Hypermarché lives in the shadows of the awesomeness that is Costco. Sadly.
> 
> I miss my Coooosttcooooooo!!


Root beer is very difficult to get in Europe in general, because Europeans don't drink the stuff. And packages with 500 pills of anything are actually illegal in most European countries, because they supposedly incite people to take too many.


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## AmberC (Mar 28, 2012)

How do you live without rootbeer? ((shudders))


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## Enkel (May 15, 2012)

If I see an author on here offering their book for free, I'll go download it (if its some genre that I usually read).  I tag those books and make a point of posting a review on them IF I LIKED THEM.  I won't post a bad review on a book that I've downloaded for free.  So, is it possible that people just aren't liking the books?

I rarely buy a book that has no reviews at all.  The only time I've done it was out of curiosity about what was being posted in a thread (on another forum).  So, I paid to buy the book and it was bad, so I posted a review saying as much.

I know if I see a book with 30+ reviews and rated high, I'll actually go look at it even if it isn't something that I'd normally read.  But that is because I'm curious about what makes books sell.  So, I'm probably not the average buyer.


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## Enkel (May 15, 2012)

Jan Strnad said:


> As for chicken nuggets...have you ever seen what they're really made of? If not, don't, not if you ever plan to eat another chicken nugget.


I'm really curious about what they do to these. My dog will eat anything. Week old road kill, mmmm chewy. Cow dung... wahoo, dive on in... she especially eats anything that I eat (even plain vinegar on lettuce that takes her breath away)... but she won't touch chicken nuggets, even if she's been trapped traveling in a car w/no food all day. Even if I eat them to show her that they are edible.


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## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

I can only speak from my personal experience. My series was getting great reviews from professional reviewers, but it was lost in obscurity until I enrolled in Select. Granted, the first book got picked up by ENT and POI on the same day, which was a game changer for me as I had 21K downloads that day. The series went from selling a few copies a month to 800 copies a month. The only bad thing about the experience was that I got hit with a couple of reviews, but I know that's to be expected when you go free. With that single promotion, I am building up my fan base, and hopefully generating some word of mouth. I know the only way to have a really successful free promotion now it to get picked up by one of the big sites, which isn't likely to happen for me again soon, but I still think is _my_ best option.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> And packages with 500 pills of anything are actually illegal in most European countries, because they supposedly incite people to take too many.


Is there a legal limit on the size of beer steins? And those joints in Amsterdam are huge.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Cheryl Douglas said:


> I can only speak from my personal experience. My series was getting great reviews from professional reviewers, but it was lost in obscurity until I enrolled in Select. Granted, the first book got picked up by ENT and POI on the same day, which was a game changer for me as I had 21K downloads that day. The series went from selling a few copies a month to 800 copies a month. The only bad thing about the experience was that I got hit with a couple of reviews, but I know that's to be expected when you go free. With that single promotion, I am building up my fan base, and hopefully generating some word of mouth. I know the only way to have a really successful free promotion now it to get picked up by one of the big sites, which isn't likely to happen for me again soon, but I still think is _my_ best option.


So Cheryl, just curious because I am releasing the first three books in my series at the same time this fall, did you put ALL your books in the series in Select? Or just the first one?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> But if you go to Costco to buy a book, they don't give you a whole free book.
> 
> If you try going around the store and loading up on free food, then picking a book off the rack, opening a bottle of wine, and sitting on the demo sofa and reading, they will ask you to not do that. Kind of unpleasantly, in my opinion. I mean, calling the police was really unnecessary. Really. I'd have paid for the wine and I hardly smudged the book *at all*!
> 
> ...


I could have gotten free eggs at Safeway the other day when I was there. I didn't because they weren't what I wanted. Instead I bought the vegetarian-fed, free-range eggs that I prefer. Imagine that.

I also spent about $150 on books I WANTED this month instead of downloading free books that I didn't want.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Going free with the first Wool book was like magic for me. It really kicked sales and reviews up to the next level, and it was advice gleaned from the MEGA thread here on KB that showed me how to do it with maximum benefit.

I can understand you not being sold on it because it didn't have the intended effect, but for some of us, the ability to go free helped us crawl out of anonymity.


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

Jan Strnad said:


> But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do.


Actually, I don't think this is a very good example. Books and food are totally different commodities. You can give away complete boxes of chocolates and make future sales because people tend to eat more than one box of chocolates in their lifetime.  So there's potential for repeat business (as well as word of mouth).

Once a book is read, there is no chance for repeat business. Unless you have other books to sell, it's 'one and done'. Then you're totally dependent on good word of mouth and hopefully a good review.

I'm not against the concept of freeloads to get noticed. I just don't like the free-to-sale ratios that I see coming out of this program. Figures like 4 (or more) free to 1 sale are just not the type of numbers that I'm comfortable with. I think there has to be a more effective way to promote a book without giving away so much to do so. Not sure what it is yet, but I'm working on it.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Here's my story:

Had a couple of good months earlier in the year after doing some free days in select. Pulled the book(s) out of select because I wanted to distribute review copies via smashwords. Sales went on a not-so-slow decline until they virtually flatlined earlier this month. So I put Book 1 in my paranormal thriller seriesDark Matter Heart series for free on SW, BN and Apple expecting Amazon to price match it sometime next month right around when I publish book 3. They price matched it on Monday. Since price matching it 4 days ago I've had almost 6,000 copies downloaded. I made it to #1 in my category (childrens>>spine chilling horror) Many of the paranormal/vampire/YA Facebook pages that I follow have kindly mentioned it on their pages and I've sold 7 times as many copies of book 2 in the last 4 days than I did the previous 21 days of the month. I'm pretty happy with it all right now.

When I first published the book a year ago I published it with 1 goal: to get readers. I knew then that if it didn't get readers through sales then I would put the content out for free at some point. Hell, I even started uploading it chapter by chapter to Figment.com until I pulled it down to go select. After getting almost 20 reviews (most of which ended with: "I can't wait for the next book!" I had a feeling that all most readers needed was a jumpstart. Once they read the first, they'll move on to the second, then the third. And I think the pattern is bearing itself out. Maybe these gains will be short lived but all I know is that there is 6,000+ potential fans out there with my book already on their devices, and it's only been 4 days. I don't think that any of the big free-promo sites picked up my listing yet so there's the possibility of way more.

I have no plans to go free with book 2 or book 3. And maybe in 6 months or a year I'll put book 1 back up with a price tag.

You can feel free to believe that it's an insult to the hard work a writer has put into the book to give it away for free, but it's even more insulting to put all that work into a book and have nobody read it. I would rather give away 6,000 copies in 4 days than sell 5 in a month. This ain't my only story. I got plenty more in the well where this came from, hell, 6 months ago I had more story ideas than readers, but now I'm getting readers for my future work. And that's what I want, readers.

And who knows, maybe I'll never sell another book, but maybe I can give away a million. There's gotta be some monetization in there somewhere.

ETA: I'm positive that I will not be sitting here a year from now saying "Damn! I wish I hadn't given all those books away for free!"


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> I could have gotten free eggs at Safeway the other day when I was there. I didn't because they weren't what I wanted. Instead I bought the vegetarian-fed, free-range eggs that I prefer. Imagine that.
> 
> I also spent about $150 on books I WANTED this month instead of downloading free books that I didn't want.


This is exactly how I feel. Well put.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> You can feel free to believe that it's an insult to the hard work a writer has put into the book to give it away for free, but it's even more insulting to put all that work into a book and have nobody read it. I would rather give away 6,000 copies in 4 days than sell 5 in a month. This ain't my only story. I got plenty more in the well where this came from, hell, 6 months ago I had more story ideas than readers, but now I'm getting readers for my future work. And that's what I want, readers.


amen.










Though I should note that those readers will likely only buy the related books in the same series, and not your other books, despite your (my) peddling efforts (to sell my paranormal weird books).


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

RE: Costco samples: Giving my 1st book away IS the sample to the rest of the series. Costco doesn't make you put the first bite in your mouth and spit it out without swallowing. You get a WHOLE taste. 

RE: Gone With The Wind, et al: 
Different time period, not to mention the ACTUAL cost of physical paper books. It don't cost nothing to give away e-books.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

JRTomlin said:


> I could have gotten free eggs at Safeway the other day when I was there. I didn't because they weren't what I wanted.


I agree completely. IN this case, they were the same eggs we always get. So it was a true bargain.

Betsy


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I agree completely. IN this case, they were the same eggs we always get. So it was a true bargain.
> 
> Betsy


Absolutely. Nothing wrong with that and on the rare occasion I see a free book that is what I do want, I download it.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

dalya said:


> amen.
> 
> Though I should note that those readers will likely only buy the related books in the same series, and not your other books, despite your (my) peddling efforts (to sell my paranormal weird books).


That's fine too. But I do think (hope?) that somewhere along the way name recognition will begin to creep in. I tend to have a pretty good rapport with some of the paranormal/YA FB pages (and they definitely appreciate free content) so as long as they remember me, and remind their fans about me when I put out another Paranormal/YA book It'll help. (and if I keep it free in perpetuity I can upload sample chapters and stuffs). And their number of likes keep going up up up.

BTW, I snagged a freebee of your book "Smart Mouth Waitress" when I saw it free on POI. Looks like that mention did some good work with your freebie rankings.

Edited to remove Jayma Mays despite how cute she is.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> Here's my story:
> 
> Had a couple of good months earlier in the year after doing some free days in select. Pulled the book(s) out of select because I wanted to distribute review copies via smashwords. Sales went on a not-so-slow decline until they virtually flatlined earlier this month. So I put Book 1 in my paranormal thriller seriesDark Matter Heart series for free on SW, BN and Apple expecting Amazon to price match it sometime next month right around when I publish book 3. They price matched it on Monday. Since price matching it 4 days ago I've had almost 6,000 copies downloaded. I made it to #1 in my category (childrens>>spine chilling horror) Many of the paranormal/vampire/YA Facebook pages that I follow have kindly mentioned it on their pages and I've sold 7 times as many copies of book 2 in the last 4 days than I did the previous 21 days of the month. I'm pretty happy with it all right now.


Uh ... wow. That's awesome, man. I love these accounts, and it's what I dig about KB. I often feel like I'm working blind, like I can't tell what worked and what didn't because there are so many confounding variables and it all feels so ... anecdotal. This is great stuff, and I wish you the best with your upcoming release.


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## EthanRussellErway (Nov 17, 2011)

When I ask someone to buy my book, I'm not only asking for their money, but something much more valuable- their time.
I look at giving away a free book as a job interview. If someone likes my work then they'll hire me and purchase more of my stuff. It we aren't a good fit then we each go our own way. No harm no foul.

I've never been payed for a job interview.

My book is going to be worth something different to everyone who reads it, and even if _I_ don't get paid every time someone reads it, _they_ are still paying with their time. I can appreciate and respect that.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

rubyscribe said:


> I would love to see someone prove me wrong here!


Back in 2010 I released Amulet and Amulet 2. They both sold a few copies a month on Amazon.

Here's the numbers of copies sold for Amulet 2:

Jan 2011 - 1
Feb 2011 - 8
Mar 2011 - 5
Apr 2011 - 5
May 2011 - 3
Jun 2011 - 3 
Jul 2011 - 495
Aug 2011 - 276
Sep 2011 - 221
Oct 2011 - 202
Nov 2011 - 207
Dec 2011 - 190
Jan 2012 - 308
Feb 2012 - 251
Mar 2012 - 249
Apr 2012 - 211
May 2012 - 216
Jun 2012 - 193 (so far)

So, what happened in July of 2011? That's when Amulet 1 went free on Amazon due to price matching. Amulet 2 went from averaging around five copies a month, to over 200 a month. All because Amulet 1 went free (and is still free.)

Also, before Amulet went free, neither book had a single review. Now, Amulet has 64 reviews, and Amulet 2 has 20, the great majority of them positive.

Free worked for me, and is still working.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Those who refrain from making their books free make the tactic more effective for those who do make them free. Less competition.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

swolf said:


> Back in 2010 I released Amulet and Amulet 2. They both sold a few copies a month on Amazon.
> 
> Here's the numbers of copies sold for Amulet 2:
> 
> ...


Awesome! I hope to replicate that!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Ruby quote:
> 
> *"People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing."*
> 
> Amen to that.


They do make money in the sales that result from word of mouth. You're missing the point.



> Did the publisher of Gone With the Wind give away free copies because Margaret Mitchell was unknown?
> How many copies of Peyton Place were given away because it was written by an uinknown?
> 
> Janet Dailey was an unknown until Harlequin published her. But her first books were not free.


You're comparing apples and oranges. _Gone with the Wind_ had a 50,000 initial print run and was in the front window of every major bookstore. Same with _Peyton Place_. Harlequin had book clubs back in the day and four books a month were put in the hands of voracious readers.

Indies hit publish, and your ebook is immediately buried under the other two thousand or more ebooks that were published that day. No one outside your immediate contacts will know or care you've written a book. Publishers give out thousands or more of their books so they can have reviews. They then advertise and presell. They put your books in catalogs for librarians.



> If you spent time and creative energy in crafting a book, then you're not begging if you put a price on it.
> 
> Harlan Ellison would not write a sentence for free. Maybe for a dime or quarter if approached right. But he would expect some compensation because he's a PROFESSIONAL writer. He's not a hobbyist.


Just factor in your word count on your free and sold books, how much you did sell, then divide it in and you'll come out with your price per word too. Frankly, you're looking at it wrong.

In the following example (I'm not including my book that sold over 700 because that was mainly due to the ENT ad ): 
I gave away 2648 books this month (so far) I sold 263. 
263 x 2= 526 + 12 (for my copies sold at 3.99) $538 
2648+263= 2,911 books total divided into $538 = 18.49 cents an eBook. Not bad, considering some authors sell their books for .99 cents and only make 33 cents each.

[/quote]


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

rubyscribe said:


> I do not support making a book free. My novel is to debut soon and I have no intentions of giving away any free copies. People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing.
> 
> I would love to see someone prove me wrong here!


I believe in the following:

Make selected short stories free from time to time, or permanently free if they're 2000 words or under.
Make the first book in a series free, assuming you have at least 2 more in the series available for purchase. (And bump the price of those additional titles by a dollar to cover 'lost' sales of the first.)


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## MadCityWriter (Dec 8, 2011)

Whether or not you choose to make your book free, in order to sell it the reader has to know it's out there. Traditional print publishers send (some of) their authors on book tours. They send out review copies. They spend money to get the book cover, title, and subject matter out in front of the reader.

Amazon's "also boughts" are the equivalent of a book tour for ebooks.  How do you get your book to come up in the also boughts? Well, it's kind of a circle. A book that sells a lot gets a higher rank and gets into the also boughts.  And once in the also boughts, readers see it and (often) will buy it.  But without being in the also boughts, how do readers get to see it?

I had done a ton of online networking, very little of which has garnered me enough sales to affect the also boughts.  Once I did my free giveaway, my book rose in rank and started showing up in the also boughts and the sales spiraled up for a short time. A bit of targeted marketing helped keep my rank up, but likely wouldn't have pushed it up before the big giveaway.  Now that I've gained some rank, even when it slips, I still make sales. 

Did I like giving so many books away free? No. But I doubt the people who downloaded it would have paid money for it anyway. But now those who will pay money for it are starting to know it's out there.  So it's the cost of advertising. And even though I gave away thousands, I remind myself that there are millions out there who can be a paying audience once they know it's available. 

I'd love a thread on how to get our books noticed by readers.  But giving me a list of 50 reviewers isn't going to cut it, because other than Goodreads and few other prime places, most review sites seem to be frequented by other authors looking to have their books reviewed. I'm not saying I don't want my book reviewed--I'm still contacting bloggers daily--but I'd love some ideas that are as effective as the also boughts.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> I'm not against the concept of freeloads to get noticed. I just don't like the free-to-sale ratios that I see coming out of this program. Figures like 4 (or more) free to 1 sale are just not the type of numbers that I'm comfortable with. I think there has to be a more effective way to promote a book without giving away so much to do so. Not sure what it is yet, but I'm working on it.


I don't get the logic here. Would you rather give away 5000 books and sell 10 or give away 20 and sell 9? What is your goal?

My goal is to both make money and get read. Ratios of freebies to paid sales don't mean a thing to me.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Adam Pepper said:


> I don't get the logic here. Would you rather give away 5000 books and sell 10 or give away 20 and sell 9? What is your goal?
> 
> My goal is to both make money and get read. Ratios of freebies to paid sales don't mean a thing to me.


or give away 0 to sell 4


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

rubyscribe said:


> People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing.
> 
> I would love to see someone prove me wrong here!


For example:

I have a freebie going right now. DANE, which is the first of my MacKenzie family series, was originally priced at .99 cents because it was a lead-in book (marketing strategy that always works for me with a series). It went free at Apple and Amazon on the same day. It hit #1 overall at Apple in the free store and #3 overall in the Kindle store. It's had more than 120,000 downloads in the 2 1/2 weeks it's been free. I have five more MacKenzie books that are available to my readers. In 2 1/2 weeks, I've sold more than 20,000 copies of the rest of the series. They're priced at $2.99 and $3.99. I made more from that one book going free than I ever would have otherwise.

I will always do this with my series books. ALWAYS.

I had another book in Select, WHISKEY REBELLION (mystery), and I timed it to use my free days the week before book two in the series came out. It also hit #1 in the Kindle store and was picked up by POI and ENT, and it was downloaded 70,000 times in 5 days. It went out of select and I put it back in the other stores (I actually submitted back to Smashwords distribution two weeks prior so it would be available about the same time). Book 2, WHISKEY SOUR, was released and they've both been selling well ever since. I'm going to do the same thing with the 2nd book of my other series I have coming out in the fall.

Since you're self-pubbing, you're going to have to come up with several marketing strategies, and you're going to have to constantly change and adjust the way you do things. Never say never about going free. How effective were you about getting the word out when your book went free? How many people are following you on Twitter? Facebook? Do you have a website that gets a lot of hits? Do you have a large blog following? Did you notify the free sites like POI and ENT that you had a freebie? What's your Internet presence like? Have you tapped into your niche of readers? Those are all questions you should ask yourself and try to implement BEFORE you go free. It'll make going free all the more worthwhile and not a wasted attempt.


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## phil1861 (Dec 22, 2011)

I can't prove you wrong, there's no right or wrong in this.

Hit publish in October of 2010.
Sold one copy in November from a facebook post at 9.99
Sold 2 copies in Jan at 5.99
Sold 9 copies in Jan at 1.99
Sold 150 copies in Feb at 3.99 after a 2 day free promotion with 6K+ freeloads. Hit top 100 civil war category and stayed there up until two weeks ago with the summer slump. I've run a promo every 6 weeks since.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

FWIW:

I think (but I could be wrong) that going free only becomes a good deal if you've got the backing of ENT and a few other sites like that. Which won't happen for me, because the gay thing and the explicit scenes thing.

What I do instead (very recently):

I put the first twelve chapters of my series up on my own website as a free read. If you can't decide after having read twelve chapters — 60,000+ words — whether the story is to your liking or whether you can live with my grammar abuse, don't buy it.

I think I have two advantages:

1. Over 60,000 words is what some would call a novel in its own right. Yet, if you want to know what happens to so-and-so after chapter 12, you'll have to buy the book (and preferably its sequels). That includes the 12 chapters you've just read for free.
2. People who don't like the story, my writing, or whatever, just abandon the book. They're less likely to write nasty reviews as they didn't spend any money or read the whole book.

Does it work? Too early to tell, but the first signs are encouraging.

As always, these are just my thoughts at this moment, based on my very limited experience, and I'm open to any and all suggestions.


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## R M Rowan (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm sorry free hasn't seemed to work for you, Ruby.  It seems as though you're getting frustrated. Hang in there!    
I kind of look at free as advertising. If I'm willing to pay to have an ad placed, then why not go straight to the source
and just look at the downloads as advertising. Sure, some of them may not be read, but some of them will. At least
with the free, your book is ON THEIR DEVICE. With an ad, it's just a quick flash in their eye. Good luck to you!


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

Adam Pepper said:


> I don't get the logic here. Would you rather give away 5000 books and sell 10 or give away 20 and sell 9? What is your goal?
> 
> My goal is to both make money and get read. Ratios of freebies to paid sales don't mean a thing to me.


I'd rather give away hundreds to sell thousands, not give away thousands to sell hundreds. That's what I consider logical.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> Going free with the first Wool book was like magic for me.


Ok, I'm really encouraged by that! (Thanks for sharing, Hugh!)

I'm having great luck with putting my short prequel (Mind Games) free, while having 2 of the 3 novels in the series out. I wasn't sure if the prequel was motivating sales of the first book until ENT picked it up, I got a 1000 downloads over night, and sales for the first (and second) books picked up right away. I figure the prequel is still selling the series for me, even when I don't have a big promo going, just at a slower rate.

I'm utterly convinced that a free novel sells additional novels in the series, based results for my friends in the Indelibles. I recently send out an email to my followers about all the Indelibles who have first-book-free available right now, and it's amazing how many of these ladies are now at the top of their charts.

Free works, if your story can hook people to buy more. When I get the third novel out in my series, I'll probably go free with the first.

p.s.


> At least with the free, your book is ON THEIR DEVICE.


<--I think this is another reason why free has long lasting effects. People are constantly being reminded of your novel, getting that 2nd, 3rd, 6th look-again that will eventually convince them to open the d*mn thing and read it.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

OK, *LilianaHart*, you win.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> OK, *LilianaHart*, you win.


Nah, I'm pretty sure Hugh still retains his Master of the Universe standing.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> I'd rather give away hundreds to sell thousands, not give away thousands to sell hundreds. That's what I consider logical.


I'd rather give away 0 and sell ten million. That's what I consider logical.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2012)

The issue is not whether or not to use a giveaways. The issue is that Select is not conductive to how authors can best leverage giveaways. Select is designed to benefit Amazon. Specifically, to sell it's Prime memberships and keep people loyal to Amazon. We are essentially giving Amazon free content to promote themselves...not us. While a handful of people have benefited from freebies, most have the same results as the OP: a lot of hoarders but not really any buyers. 

We have created a demographic that will never buy a book again. Much like businesses using Groupon have discovered, this demographic is looking for steals and deals and has little interest in developing any brand loyalty. They will jump from free book to free book and either never read everything on their kindles or forget what they read by the time the next wave of free books are available.

This doesn't mean that "free" is bad all the time. It just needs to be leveraged in a way that benefits the AUTHOR, not Amazon. For example, I give away each issue of the Bards and Sages Quarterly as part of the subscription to the my monthly newsletter. You have to subscribe to my newsletter, however, to get it. I have an opt-in subscriber list of around a thousand people. Those are MY CUSTOMERS. Not Amazon's. Not BN's. Not Apple's. Mine. They get a free magazine, but I get to promote to them once a month on everything that I am working on. When I send free copies of my book to conventions for door prizes or charity auctions, I'm getting my books in front of captive audiences who went to the con with the intention to buy things, not find free stuff. I've got a free RPG supplement available for download on my website. It's a 30+ page product for free...but to use it requires our core rules book which you have to pay for. 

The point is, don't use free as a "throw enough crap against the wall" approach. Leverage it in a way that benefits you...not the freebie websites and Amazon.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

LilianaHart said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure Hugh still retains his Master of the Universe standing.


Hmmm, isn't "Master of the Universe" the original title of Fifty Shades of Grey? Do you know something about Hugh that the rest of us don't?


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> I'd rather give away hundreds to sell thousands, not give away thousands to sell hundreds. That's what I consider logical.


I agree. That sounds like a logical goal. But again, are you living in the world as it is or the world that you wish it to be.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Select is designed to benefit Amazon. Specifically, to sell it's Prime memberships and keep people loyal to Amazon. We are essentially giving Amazon free content to promote themselves...not us.


We don't know if Amazon is actually benefiting. I'd suggest Amazon's gain or loss has no bearing on the benefits an author may derive from Select. Benefits are not limited to those intended by the designers. Only the individual author knows if he is benefiting from Select and free days.

We might also note Amazon is giving free distribution to free books. Amazon gives something and the author gives something.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

Enkel said:


> I'm really curious about what they do to these. My dog will eat anything. Week old road kill, mmmm chewy. Cow dung... wahoo, dive on in... she especially eats anything that I eat (even plain vinegar on lettuce that takes her breath away)... but she won't touch chicken nuggets, even if she's been trapped traveling in a car w/no food all day. Even if I eat them to show her that they are edible.


Whatever you do, if you want to continue to enjoy chicken nuggets, do not, _not_, *not* ever in your life Google "pink slime."

As to the rest (about, you know, those ebook things), reason based on whatever analogy makes sense to you, do whatever works, cross your fingers and hope for the best. My best wishes to all!


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> We have created a demographic that will never buy a book again. Much like businesses using Groupon have discovered, this demographic is looking for steals and deals and has little interest in developing any brand loyalty. They will jump from free book to free book and either never read everything on their kindles or forget what they read by the time the next wave of free books are available.


Those people are helping us by pushing our books up the list and increasing visibility. Some people like bargains, others pay for what they want. Select didn't create this demographic, it merely caters to them.


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## Katie Salidas (Mar 21, 2010)

rubyscribe said:


> *I also admit that I feel that people have gotten addicted to free books because of Select. Authors congregate sites promoting free books, to get the word out about their book going free. Hoards of readers get giddy (picture the screaming women on Oprah). I have concluded with anecdotal evidence, that we have spoiled good, honest, paying readers. There are plenty who knows some good book/s in their favorite genres, would be free everyday, who why buy?* I enrolled my book on select and I have decided not to go free, especially since some people posted here that the sales boost post free days, has vanished.


I have to agree with this thought process. I don't think that going free now is as beneficial as it used to be to us authors. There are such a flood of free books and promotional sites geared towards free books that readers really don't "need" to pay for books. I'm guilty myself of shopping the sales and loading up on free books (just because they are free) that I may or may not get to read.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

It's beginning to sound like Select Free is a competitive advantage for some but not for others. We don't have to understand it to observe it.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Adam Pepper said:


> Those people are helping us by pushing our books up the list and increasing visibility. Some people like bargains, others pay for what they want. Select didn't create this demographic, it merely caters to them.


I paid for Wool (Omnibus), and I've bought other authors here too. Yes, I get eBooks free, but visibility is the battle, not quality. I agree with Nathan and what Bella Andre does. Give the first book in a series away free, charge for the rest.

My sell-through from Book 2 to Book 3 is a 100%. Obviously, they're hooked. I'd like to give away Book 1 permanently and may upload it to Smashwords to eventually do that, maybe when I'm ready with Book 4. I don't lower the price though, as I actually get less sales when I do. (I think it's a quality perception.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> It's beginning to sound like Select Free is a competitive advantage for some but not for others. We don't have to understand it to observe it.


This.

If you can get mentioned on the hit-maker sites, and give away a lot of a book in a series, it can be really great. *It will not, however, help sell books by the same author in a different genre.*


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

I haven't read the other responses to your post, but I sure appreciate why you feel this way. I haven't sold books for free on Kindle, but I have given away a handful of print books on Goodreads and I've also given away review copies to people who are serious about reviewing my books. I've been lucky to have found people who follow through, for the most part. Though, I'm more discerning than I used to be.

The point I wanted to make is that when I first started hanging around the indie amazon forums about 4 year ago, many of the authors who gave away free copies were also generating sales, i.e. a few hundred a month, and also getting several reviews a month. But things have changed a lot since then. So many books are offered free now that I think they really are treated as disposable commodities by many readers. If readers aren't absorbed by the first few pages, the freebie's deleted and onto the next. I've heard other writers say that for every 2,000 free downloads they've had, they'll get maybe one review. With all those books to read, maybe people just don't have the time, or want to make the time, to write a review.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Again, I've given away a ton of books. I've also sold over 5000 books this month. Again I only have two books. One free, one paid. As far as I know, neither ENT or POI have picked up my free title despite me notifying both of them. Plenty of other places picked it up though.

People do read free books and go on to buy the rest of the series if they liked it. My readers tell me everyday. I see it in my own sales. I do it. I've read free books by members here and gone to to buy the rest of their books.

Free does sell books. I look at the top indie ebook sellers and they all have* price-matched *free books right now. Amanda Hocking, HP Mallory, Bella Andre, Barbara Freethy, Gemma Halliday, JR Rain. And a bunch of others. How many of those people on that list made the USA Today Bestseller or NYT Bestseller list? Hmm, I think all of them.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

dalya said:


> This.
> 
> If you can get mentioned on the hit-maker sites, and give away a lot of a book in a series, it can be really great. *It will not, however, help sell books by the same author in a different genre.*


Um ... I feel like one of you little rascals (or the universe) is playing a $2.99 joke on me.  One of my books that I rarely sell copies of just got a purchase.

So, if you're keeping score at home, it takes me 17,257 downloads of my YA book, for free, for me to sell 1 copy of my MG (middle-grade) book.  Okay, okay, I can admit when I'm wrong, and my earlier point was clearly incorrect.


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## jeannest (May 15, 2012)

Enkel said:


> If I see an author on here offering their book for free, I'll go download it (if its some genre that I usually read). I tag those books and make a point of posting a review on them IF I LIKED THEM. I won't post a bad review on a book that I've downloaded for free. So, is it possible that people just aren't liking the books?
> 
> I rarely buy a book that has no reviews at all. The only time I've done it was out of curiosity about what was being posted in a thread (on another forum). So, I paid to buy the book and it was bad, so I posted a review saying as much.
> 
> I know if I see a book with 30+ reviews and rated high, I'll actually go look at it even if it isn't something that I'd normally read. But that is because I'm curious about what makes books sell. So, I'm probably not the average buyer.


That's what I do too. I wouldn't leave a bad review of a book that I downloaded for free.

I buy a lot of Kindle books, but I've enjoyed some real gems for free. I think that if you get a book for free and you really enjoy the book, you should take the time to review it. 

I always assumed that authors made their books free to get some good reviews.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

dalya said:


> Though I should note that those readers will likely only buy the related books in the same series, and not your other books, despite your (my) peddling efforts (to sell my paranormal weird books).


My experience has been that if they liked one of my books, they will buy all the others; and I write YA Fantasy, YA Action/Adventure, YA Sci Fi and Adult Chick Lit. So it _is_ possible to cross-sell.

Also, I've given a stand alone book away free (Wrecked), gotten over 34,000 DL (3 days), and then gone on to have a stellar month with that same book (since it got pushed so high in the rankings and had that visibility). This was last month, not the heydays of select back at the beginning of the year. So Select still works - not always, but often enough to keep trying it.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> My experience has been that if they liked one of my books, they will buy all the others; and I write YA Fantasy, YA Action/Adventure, YA Sci Fi and Adult Chick Lit. So it _is_ possible to cross-sell.
> 
> Also, I've given a stand alone book away free (Wrecked), gotten over 34,000 DL (3 days), and then gone on to have a stellar month with that same book (since it got pushed so high in the rankings and had that visibility). This was last month, not the heydays of select back at the beginning of the year. So Select still works - not always, but often enough to keep trying it.


Yeah, but your fans are hardcore! They hug trees! And your Facebook page is alive.  Ah, well, I'm still relatively new at this ... gotta keep plugging away! I'm 23% done proofreading a book right now. Going to get back to it.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

dalya said:


> Yeah, but your fans are hardcore! They hug trees! And your Facebook page is alive.  Ah, well, I'm still relatively new at this ... gotta keep plugging away! I'm 23% done proofreading a book right now. Going to get back to it.


That's only because I'm on there so much interacting. Facebook will only be as active as you make it. 

I have proofreading to do too! Argh!


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## Enkel (May 15, 2012)

ellecasey said:


> My experience has been that if they liked one of my books, they will buy all the others; and I write YA Fantasy, YA Action/Adventure, YA Sci Fi and Adult Chick Lit. So it _is_ possible to cross-sell.


There are several authors that I went through that phase of buy anything and everything they put out because I liked their style. So, I think you're correct about the free books can cross-sell. I would say that a solid 25% of the books I purchase are because I like the author's style and have little to do with the actual story (some of them were quite lame plot wise)


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Enkel said:


> There are several authors that I went through that phase of buy anything and everything they put out because I liked their style. So, I think you're correct about the free books can cross-sell. I would say that a solid 25% of the books I purchase are because I like the author's style and have little to do with the actual story (some of them were quite lame plot wise)


I'm the same way.

I had a conversation with my mom the other day. She's a Nora Roberts fan and buys all of her stuff as soon as it comes out. She always complains though, about how she didn't like the book most of the time. I asked her why she keeps buying them if they keep sucking. And her answer was that every once in a while there's a good one, so she'll keep buying as long as Nora keeps writing. And that the majority of the time, they aren't really awful; they're just "meh". Once she loves an author, she doesn't bother with reviews anymore. She just buys and buys and buys.

I've seen the same thing with the Sookie Stackhouse novels (Charlaine Harris). Some in the series are awesome, and some not so much. But many readers just keep buying them anyway, because they love the characters and the world, and they hope the next one will be better. And the ratings and rankings of these books bear this out. The latest Sookie novel I think has only a 3-star rating, as does another in the series. But the whole series is in the top 10 all the time so it's selling like hotcakes, regardless.


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

I wish that Select had continued to work for me as it did in the beginning. But it has declined each month and this month was the worst.  So I've decided to leave the program and will explore other ways to promote.  

Select is a great marketing and promotion tool if it works for you.  Sadly, it stopped working for me, and I also don't want to keep giving out free books. I've given out thousands already with not much return that I can see.

I've never been on Smashwords and I'd really like to explore that and see if I can find more success by trying different venues.  I also noticed that I have so many books on my kindle that have been free downloads (I went overboard like everyone else, I think) that I'm actually feeling overwhelmed by it and will be dumping the majority of them, as I know I will never have time to read them and get anything else done.  I'm keeping the ones that have been written by members here who have been nice to me.    

I hope you guys continue to see success with it. But, I'm out for now.  I guess I can always go back if it gets too cold out there.


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## Enkel (May 15, 2012)

ellecasey said:


> I'm the same way.
> I had a conversation with my mom the other day. She's a Nora Roberts fan and buys all of her stuff as soon as it comes out. [...] The latest Sookie novel I think has only a 3-star rating, as does another in the series. But the whole series is in the top 10 all the time so it's selling like hotcakes, regardless.


Yup, I kept buying Dave Barry (and several others) long after the spark was gone. :-(


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## pamclaughton (Feb 21, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> Right. So like with the music example, you like the song on Youtube, you go over to itunes and buy it. Then you listen to a 1 minute sample of another song by the same band (who you already know can write a great song, beginning to end) and you decide to give it a shot and buy that one too. So once you know a band/author can execute, you feel safer investing your money on other things they've done.
> 
> A single chicken nugget and a chunk of cheese off the wheel is like getting the whole 1st book free. You buy the rest of the product (a whole bag of nuggets, a whole wheel of cheese, other books by the same author) if you liked the first taste.


I was actually grocery shopping last week, and using my iPhone to scan each item. I'm lactose intolerant, so right after buying a carton of lactaid brand cottage cheese, I got an ecoupon for a totally free carton of Yoplait's new lactose free yogurt.

I think going free with books is the same concept, totally smart marketing in that you are introducing your book and yourself to a potential new customer. This strategy is what launched a writer friend of mine, Marie Force, to a whole new level. She continues to have a book free often, usually the first one in a series....that series is now 6 books strong I think and it's well worth it to give that first one free so that even if only a percentage get 'hooked', they'll be back to buy the rest of the series. Free is a powerful thing.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Katie Salidas said:


> I have to agree with this thought process. I don't think that going free now is as beneficial as it used to be to us authors. There are such a flood of free books and promotional sites geared towards free books that *readers really don't "need" to pay for books*. I'm guilty myself of shopping the sales and loading up on free books (just because they are free) that I may or may not get to read.


Technically speaking there are enough books on the Gutenberg Project that readers who didn't want to, would have never had to buy a book again. Not to mention the existence of Libraries. Also, keep in mind that anybody can go to a Barnes & Noble (if there's one around) pick up any book on the shelf, plop down in one of the big comfy chairs they provide and read the whole thing. BN WON'T kick you out (until closing time of course)


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

Nobody putting a book up for free is 'giving away' anything. Your costs are fixed, bar promotional spend. Your investment stopped when you uploaded your book.

Free downloads are costing you zilch. The cost has moved from you to the downloader: his/her time now needs to be invested, not yours. Look at the download as free for you, not for the reader.

Some will argue that free promos might cannibalise sales. Wouldn't you surrender potential sales to a couple of stray cannibals for free marketing access to the whole tribe?

Wake up and smell the cauldron  

Joe


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> to sell 1 copy of my MG (middle-grade) book.


I think the take-away here is how hard it is to sell indie MG, even when they already like the author. At least I've seen that with other author-friends who have both YA and MG books out - YA sells like crazy, MG a bare trickle.


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

Adam Pepper said:


> I agree. That sounds like a logical goal. But again, are you living in the world as it is or the world that you wish it to be.


I'm just living in a world in which you need to sell a lot more than you give away in order to achieve some measure of financial success. Otherwise, writing would just be a hobby to me, and I'd permanently set my price at free.

The business side of me cringes when there's so much excitement over giving away large sums of books which end up leading to very little in the way of sales. Yes, it's great to get noticed (if the freeloads are actually being read, which is a another issue), but there has to be a positive return on investment at some point. I want to find a way to be noticed and sell books, but without giving the store away in the process.



> I'd rather give away 0 and sell ten million. That's what I consider logical.


I like that type of logic much better too.


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## RikNieu (Jun 2, 2012)

Sweetapple said:


> How do you live without rootbeer? ((shudders))


I bought rootbeer once. Found it in the import section of our local grocery store(I live in South Africa). We had a taste and my wife instantly summed up why it would never sell here. It tastes exactly like Mentadent-P toothpaste. Why the hell would you want to drink toothpaste?


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> I'm just living in a world in which you need to sell a lot more than you give away in order to achieve some measure of financial success. Otherwise, writing would just be a hobby to me, and I'd permanently set my price at free.


Hugh Howey hit that jackpot.

Look at it like any other marketing campaign. If I spend $1,000 on an advertisement and my book is $2.99 I have to sell 500 books (not including tax and other expenses) based strictly on that ad, effectively, those books = FREE because if I only sell 500 then I broke even. $0 in my bank account, so basically I just gave away 500 books for free. If I sell less than 500 then I'm PAYING to have someone read my book. And those 500 sales do very little to move my books ranking and gain more exposure. So with paid advertising I _have to sell a lot more than the cost of the advertising to achieve some measure of financial success_. The difference here is that giving away freebies doesn't cost me anything so any sales that I get from book 2 or book 3 (or a bump if in select) are instantly in the financial success column.

Looking at the logic that you're applying it seems like you would also be against paying for advertising, I would venture to guess that you're also against spending hour upon hours (also a cost) on social network sites to try to get readers. So if you don't go free, don't advertise and don't social network how does anyone find your book?

But, I don't mind writing as a hobby where I can get 7,000 people to potentially read what I'm writing within a week. It's a start, and I'll build from there. If I do the same thing with my next series then that's more readers, then the next and the next and I build a fan base until the hobby starts paying off. I don't mind it being a "hobby" which is why I don't worry about "paying my bills" with what I make on writing, If I'm sitting at the keyboard stressing that I need to finish something to "pay my bills" then it ain't fun anymore. I'd rather buy another banjo or another tattoo or another gun as my reward.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> The business side of me cringes when there's so much excitement over giving away large sums of books which end up leading to very little in the way of sales.


This is true when you only have one book (or your books are so disparate that they don't have carry-over sales). Not so much when you have a series, which is what most people here are reporting success with, I believe. I've seen several authors see great success with free (success measured in terms of SALES not downloads). Most authors, I think, are savvy enough to see when something has a positive impact on their bottom line (or not).

The great thing about indie is that we get to experiment. Try it, see if you like the result, if not, switch back. Very few penalties for trying new things, and there's a lot of risk-reward benefit for those that do. It's the cauldron of innovation, as I like to think of it, and one reason I enjoy it so much.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> I'm just living in a world in which you need to sell a lot more than you give away in order to achieve some measure of financial success. Otherwise, writing would just be a hobby to me, and I'd permanently set my price at free.


Being a professional also means making decisions based on facts and data and what is best for the long term success of your business, not making decisions based on emotion and your own personal sense of right and wrong.


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> The difference here is that giving away freebies doesn't cost me anything so any sales that I get from book 2 or book 3 (or a bump if in select) are instantly in the financial success column.


I agree with you - for this type of scenario. But this may not work nearly as well for those who are not writing a series of related books. But if one is writing standalone novels, there might still be some cross promotional potential to other books, but there is also a greater cost in lost sales in mass giveaways.



> Looking at the logic that you're applying it seems like you would also be against paying for advertising, I would venture to guess that you're also against spending hour upon hours (also a cost) on social network sites to try to get readers. So if you don't go free, don't advertise and don't social network how does anyone find your book?


Nope, I'm not against any of this. I'm trying to say that it's all about cost effectiveness. I'm just interested in finding the right levels to maximize the effectiveness of advertising, social networking, and free promotions. As this topic was about making books free, I was only addressing that issue.



> But, I don't mind writing as a hobby where I can get 7,000 people to potentially read what I'm writing within a week. It's a start, and I'll build from there. If I do the same thing with my next series then that's more readers, then the next and the next and I build a fan base until the hobby starts paying off.


Again, this seems like a good strategy for those authors (like you) who write series. I hope it serves you well.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

pamclaughton said:


> This strategy is what launched a writer friend of mine, Marie Force, to a whole new level. She continues to have a book free often, usually the first one in a series....that series is now 6 books strong I think and it's well worth it to give that first one free so that even if only a percentage get 'hooked', they'll be back to buy the rest of the series. Free is a powerful thing.


Holy cow! I just looked up two of her books: #52 and #117 paid overall. She has a long list of titles, too.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> but there is also a greater cost in lost sales in mass giveaways.


Do you have any evidence that sales are being lost in mass giveaways? I haven't seen any. I've seen sales boosts or sales stagnant, but no evidence, even anecdotal, of lost sales.


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## Rachel Schurig (Apr 9, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> People do read free books and go on to buy the rest of the series if they liked it. My readers tell me everyday. I see it in my own sales. I do it. I've read free books by members here and gone to to buy the rest of their books.


This sums it up perfectly for me. My freeloads for the first book in my series back in January and again in March were huge and the resulting sales were amazing. What really makes me happy is that my 2nd and 3rd book are now outselling the first. That tells me that people were interested in continuing on with the series once they read the first.

I too have downloaded free books from KB authors and continued with the series. For example, I probably would not have purchased Wool on my own (I'm usually not huge on scifi) but I gave it a shot when it was free and was hooked. From that one free book Hugh Howey got a built-in buyer for pretty much anything he puts out for the foreseeable future.

I don't know if free will always have the same effect, but I'm planning to run another free promo when the series spinoff comes out next month. If it doesn't work like it did it the past, that's fine but I really see no downside to giving it a try.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

> I had a conversation with my mom the other day. She's a Nora Roberts fan and buys all of her stuff as soon as it comes out. She always complains though, about how she didn't like the book most of the time. I asked her why she keeps buying them if they keep sucking. And her answer was that every once in a while there's a good one, so she'll keep buying as long as Nora keeps writing.


You have no idea how crazy this makes me.

Woody Allen tells a joke in _Annie Hall_ that goes something like this:

Two elderly women are having dinner at a Catskills resort. One lady says, "Boy, the food here is poison." The other lady says, "Yes, and such small portions!"

Then again, there's the rat experiment.

If a rat presses a bar and gets food every single time, it'll press the bar and eat until it's full, then stop.

If food is delivered randomly when the bar is pressed, so sometimes the rat gets food and sometimes it doesn't, it'll start pressing the bar obsessively. It's like playing a slot machine.

So maybe I'm totally wrong! Maybe the best way to hook fans is to write a whole truckload of books and make sure that a good number of them are bad. Give away the first good one, write an occasional good one now and then, and let the obsessive buying begin!

(I wish I were 100% kidding about this.)


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## pamclaughton (Feb 21, 2011)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> Holy cow! I just looked up two of her books: #52 and #117 paid overall. She has a long list of titles, too.


Yes, I pay attention to what Marie says as she's doing very well! over 300k books sold so far, and March was over 60k total sold. She is a fast writer and writes full time now. I remember last year about this time we were at the RWA conference in NY and she'd just had an amazing June, but was concerned that it might be a fluke so wasn't ready to quit her day job yet. It never slowed down, and just kept getting better as she continued to write more books in the series, so she went full-time early this year.

She does a really good job of using Facebook to promote her books in a way I haven't seen many (or even any) other authors doing. She has reader groups on Facebook that discuss the books in her series and there's over 600 members. I'm paying attention and plan to someday do something similar. Here's a link to a recent interview that you may find interesting, http://elizaknight.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/self-published-interview-marie-force/


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## AdriannaWhite (Jul 30, 2011)

Adam Pepper said:


> Being a professional also means making decisions based on facts and data and what is best for the long term success of your business, not making decisions based on emotion and your own personal sense of right and wrong.


Well said. This whole thread can be summed up right here.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> I'm just living in a world in which *you need to sell a lot more than you give away in order to achieve some measure of financial success*. Otherwise, writing would just be a hobby to me, and I'd permanently set my price at free.
> 
> The business side of me cringes when there's so much excitement over giving away large sums of books which end up leading to very little in the way of sales. Yes, it's great to get noticed (if the freeloads are actually being read, which is a another issue), but *there has to be a positive return on investment at some point*. I want to find a way to be noticed and sell books, but without giving the store away in the process.


I get why you think this way, because I had a hard time with the logic at first, too. But let me respectfully tell you that you are wrong. WRONG.

Regarding the first part of what I cited above (and bolded): I have given away over 65,000 of my book in KDP Select promos. I've also sold, after said promos almost 19,000 books and made about 50k. In 6 months. I don't have to sell "a hell of a lot more" than I give away in order to have some measure of financial success, especially considering the fact that most of my sales came in the last 3 months. I can give away a ton of books, only sell a fraction as many, and still do quite well. Yo, I don't consider them hobby wages, and I do consider it a positive ROI. But maybe we live in different worlds. 

Amazon sells its Kindles at a loss. Your grocery store probably sells milk at a loss. Many businesses give things away to get buyers in the door. Free book promos are no different. Maybe you never worked in that kind of business, and that's why it offends your business sense, but lots of them do it and rake in the profits.

And this logic doesn't work for just series either. I did the same with Wrecked, a stand-alone novel, and as a result of giving 35k of them away in 3 days, shot to the top of the charts and sold a boatload of them right after, as a result of the exposure. The wave lasted weeks. It's only now just dying down to former levels. The key is EXPOSURE. If the readers can't see you, they will have a hard time finding you, and they won't buy you. Ta daaaa!

The important thing to take away here is that what you might be bringing from your former business background (I have one of those, wide and deep), may not work here in this world. I've learned to never say never and to look at what other successful people are doing and emulate it. You also have to be ready to change on a dime because this industry is constantly evolving.

And now, the cyborg must edit.


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## pamclaughton (Feb 21, 2011)

As a business owner, I've noticed that many writers don't view their writing as a business. They get caught up in thinking that giving away a free book somehow devalues the worth of their art. It doesn't. It just gets them noticed.

Books are art, but they are also a product and by putting your books online for sale, you are the owner of a business and might be more successful if you can look at how you sell your book in a more objective light. Why not try to make more money for yourself, and to maximize sales, by first giving some product away for free? It doesn't cost anything and could result in many more sales.


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## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

Steeplechasing said:


> Nobody putting a book up for free is 'giving away' anything. Your costs are fixed, bar promotional spend. Your investment stopped when you uploaded your book.
> 
> Free downloads are costing you zilch. The cost has moved from you to the downloader: his/her time now needs to be invested, not yours. Look at the download as free for you, not for the reader.


I think Joe has said it well. It is hard to get one's mind around the ramifications of merchandise that costs zero to produce each additional unit, but it is indeed the reader who pays. IMHO, authors should stop viewing freeloads as lost sales or as a sign of selling themselves short or whatever. 99.99% of these downloaders were not going to buy your book in any case. Now, they might buy the next one. Or they might leave you a review. And they definitely, by selecting *your* book out of the sea, have taught Amazon's computers something about how to sell your book and to whom. They have also given you some non-zero benefit in terms of sales rank, also-boughts, etc. There are so, so, so many readers out there that you cannot possibly saturate the market for your book. Konrath did some rough math and concluded that even at *his* free download rate, it would take him a century or more of 24/7 free offerings to saturate the market for his books. (Not even to saturate the whole market, but the market for books like his.) And I think it is safe to assume that the growth in the e-reading population will more than keep up.

Different people have different goals. If your goal is to earn a living, I think you should unlearn whatever you think you know about selling stuff if that stuff actually costs money to produce (beyond the first unit). Your ebook does not, and you cannot apply the lessons you think you know. You also cannot view your Amazon page as a physical store where you might picture, say, 100 shoppers per day. It is a store where millions of people pass by the window each day. And a *huge* number come in and glance around. If you can get a tiny fraction of them to open their wallet or even to remember that your store exists after they leave, I think you are making headway. If not, then I think you should look at other possible explanations besides the free giveaways cannibalizing paid sales. It only takes one thing not working well to kill your sales. But it isn't--cannot possibly be--that you have saturated the market via KDP Select. Mathematically impossible.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Did the publisher of Gone With the Wind give away free copies because Margaret Mitchell was unknown?
> 
> How many copies of Peyton Place were given away because it was written by an uinknown?
> 
> ...


How do you know there were never free copies given away of Gone with the Wind, Peyton Place, or any of Janet Dailey's books? In fact, I guarantee tehre were -- ARCs given to reviewers. And possibly even actual printed finished product books. Publishers do it ALL THE TIME, sometimes to the tune of tens of thousands of copies given away for free.

As for Janet Dailey, considering as she's a romance author, I'd almost guarantee her first books had thousands of copies given away for fre. Every RWA Conference I've ever attended has had each publisher doing a FREE booksigning where they have boxes upon boxes of books that they give out FOR FREE. It's entirely possible to come home from RWA with over $1000 worth of books in tow.

Why are these given away? The publishers want writers to learn about the various imprints so they can figure out which would be a good fit for them. And you know what? After every conference, I've ended up with a few new adds to my auto-buy list and went out and bought the rest of their entire backlist.

Free can be a very powerful component of marketing. But it can't be the only strategy you emply. Just part of it.

FWIW, I've never put either of my novels free because I only have two of them and it's much more effective when you have a series. But I have a short story (in a fre anthology) that ites into my series, and I'm slowly but surely starting to see a small uptick in sales. And when my third book comes out, I do intend to put the first book free for a month or two. (I'm not in Select.)


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

> The business side of me cringes when there's so much excitement over giving away large sums of books which end up leading to very little in the way of sales.





Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> This is true when you only have one book (or your books are so disparate that they don't have carry-over sales). Not so much when you have a series, which is what most people here are reporting success with, I believe.


My impression as well. And the reason I'm waiting to employ this option for self-promotion.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Thomas Watson said:


> My impression as well. And the reason I'm waiting to employ this option for self-promotion.


Bah! Why wait? What do you have to lose?


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Being a professional also means making decisions based on facts and data and what is best for the long term success of your business, not making decisions based on emotion and your own personal sense of right and wrong.


I wouldn't dispute that. But one doesn't have to wear the professional hat to be a rational economic actor. I still don't know the difference between an author and a professional author.


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## DidEverythingButThink (Jun 25, 2012)

Timing is everything with free promo, but I understand not wanting to give away your work for free.


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

ellecasey said:


> I get why you think this way, because I had a hard time with the logic at first, too. But let me respectfully tell you that you are wrong. WRONG.
> 
> Regarding the first part of what I cited above (and bolded): I have given away over 65,000 of my book in KDP Select promos. I've also sold, after said promos almost 19,000 books and made about 50k. In 6 months. I don't have to sell "a hell of a lot more" than I give away in order to have some measure of financial success, especially considering the fact that most of my sales came in the last 3 months. I can give away a ton of books, only sell a fraction as many, and still do quite well. Yo, I don't consider them hobby wages, and I do consider it a positive ROI. But maybe we live in different worlds.


I guess we are going to have differing opinions.

I'm in awe and respect the numbers you have been able to achieve. But I think 65k to 19k is a backwards business model. I'm just trying to find a way to reverse that - try to sell 65k while giving away 19k (or less). I'm after the $170k, not the $50k. Is it possible? Am I being naive? Is giving away massive freeloads the only way to achieve visibility? I don't know. I'm just one of those suborn people that has to look for a better way to do it. I may never find it, and just be one of the thousands of authors who tried and failed. But as you said, this is a consistently evolving industry.

I wish you well and continued success.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> Is giving away massive freeloads the only way to achieve visibility?


Please let us know when you find the better way! (For the record, there isn't just ONE way to do any of this, but the beauty of the KB is that we can share what works, what doesn't, and look at all the options and try the flavors we like best.)


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## Griffin Hayes (Sep 20, 2011)

Obviously not everyone is going to get great results going free via KDP. Even from reading through these posts a few things jump out at me. Authors with a series or several books tend to have more overall success with free. Same goes for authors writing in the more popular genres (romance, YA, thriller). 

Over and above that are the key ingredients to any successful book: eye catching cover, enticing blurb and strong sample pages (assuming the book itself if great). I think what happens is authors with one, maybe two books who only meet a handful of the above criteria are wondering why their books aren't selling like Hugh Howey's or Liliana Hart's work. Sure Select isn't as great as it used to be, but there are several 'author' related factors which create roadblocks to success. A lot of us are looking for that magic bullet when I think the secret is time and writing lots of books. Boring, but true.


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I don't know of any indie ebooks that make it onto the bestseller lists for their genres without going free. When you've had a month of zero sales on your new eBook, you may change your mind.
> 
> Your book needs to be discovered by readers, while not the best option, right now for indies free/Select is the only way most of our books will be discovered. If I could find an effecive way to jumpstart sales without giving them free, I would.


Spot on, at least in my own experience. I have so few hours to give to fiction writing, so most of them go to actual writing rather than social media or marketing. Free is one of the few, and perhaps best, ways I have of getting attention. Does it make me cringe to see thousands of copies going out for free? Of course. But the sales pop that typically follows a free promotion simply doesn't happen (again, at least for me) on its own. There's no doubt in my mind that my total sales have benefited more from free/Select than any other promotional vehicle.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Accord64 said:


> I guess we are going to have differing opinions.
> 
> I'm in awe and respect the numbers you have been able to achieve. But I think 65k to 19k is a backwards business model. I'm just trying to find a way to reverse that - try to sell 65k while giving away 19k (or less). I'm after the $170k, not the $50k. Is it possible? Am I being naive? Is giving away massive freeloads the only way to achieve visibility? I don't know. I'm just one of those suborn people that has to look for a better way to do it. I may never find it, and just be one of the thousands of authors who tried and failed. But as you said, this is a consistently evolving industry.
> 
> I wish you well and continued success.


Thank you for the well wishes. But I think you missed my point. 

It's not a matter of opinion that giving away books works. It's fact. Cold, hard numbers. I explained that the majority of the 50k was made in the last 3 months. That means that yes, I will have a year like you imagine and hope for. Probably better than that. But I would NEVER have gotten to this point without giving books away (a lot of 'em!). I used to think, "Hey! I've given away $120,000 in books!" But that's completely wrong! I couldn't have been more wrong to look at it that way. Most of the people who downloaded my book for free would have never bought my book in the first place, simply because they would have never heard of me. What I did was spend $0 to advertise my book to many thousands of people who ended up buying all of my other books because they got one for free and liked it.

How many Kindles has Amazon given away (sold at a loss)? How many gallons of milk go out the grocery store doors every day? You cannot argue with the model. It works.

Whether you want to use the model or not, that's up to you. But it's pointless to argue the numbers when they speak this loudly.

And now for friendly advice you didn't ask for but I will give anyway 'cuz I'm bossy like that: You will advance must faster in the business end of writing if you let go of your "other" business sense, and try understanding the business sense of the writer writing ebooks and featuring them on Amazon.  It's a tough adjustment, for some more than others, but it's worth it. You don't have to just take my word for it. These boards are full of successful writers, more successful than me by far, who understand this model and believe in it wholeheartedly - and not because they have an MBA, but because they've seen it WORK.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

Griffin Hayes said:


> A lot of us are looking for that magic bullet when I think the secret is time and writing lots of books. Boring, but true.


Yep. Without the "boring" part, all methods of self promotion are a moot point.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

"_I'm in awe and respect the numbers you have been able to achieve. But I think 65k to 19k is a backwards business model. I'm just trying to find a way to reverse that - try to sell 65k while giving away 19k (or less). I'm after the $170k, not the $50k. Is it possible? Am I being naive? Is giving away massive freeloads the only way to achieve visibility? I don't know. I'm just one of those suborn people that has to look for a better way to do it. I may never find it, and just be one of the thousands of authors who tried and failed. But as you said, this is a consistently evolving industry._"

There's a big division on this thread between the authors who've found free a successful tool and those who haven't. Writing is a business. And too often I see the people who aren't succeeding, throwing their hands up in the air as if it's some weird twist of fate that has them floundering in the doldrums of obscurity. It's not. It is hard work to be an indie author. Yes, I spend several hours a day writing, but I spend an EQUAL amount of time doing all the prep work and marketing I need to for my *business*.

A tool like free isn't going to work if you're not doing any of the hard work of good marketing BEFORE YOU GO FREE. You have to have an online presence. From the websites I've been looking on this thread from the people who haven't found success with free or who think free is losing sales (which is the weirdest logic I've ever heard), I haven't seen one that tells me that you've put a good marketing strategy in place. This is a long haul business. Is your website user friendly? Is it engaging your fans? Have you taken the time to build up a Twitter following? A facebook fanpage? Do you interact with other big name writers online? Do you comment on their blogs that get thousands of hits? Do you go to reader events/conferences? Do you have business cards? Trading cards? Do you put a paperback copy of your book in the little baskets by the fireplace at Panera?

Before a strategy like free can be effective, you have to have the core of your *business* in place.

Just because I have the first book in my series free (it was only 99 cents to begin with) doesn't mean that I'm losing sales or money by giving away my hard-earned work. I'll repeat: 120,000 downloads in 2 1/2 weeks. The subsequent books in the series prices at $2.99 and $3.99 have sold more than 20,000 copies in that same 2 1/2 weeks . The boxed set, which is priced at $6.99 is ranked at #611. I never would have sold that many if I hadn't gone free. No I haven't sold as many as were downloaded. But I will. Eventually. You say you're after the 170k instead of the 50k, but how are you going to do that without getting the visibility you need. You've got to take risks in business and sometimes you have to take an initial loss. I don't look at the 120,000 copies that were downloaded as a loss of $42,000 (35% of 120k). I look at it as I'm making high 5 figures A MONTH. I'm willing to take the initial loss to help the long term gain.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Coming to this thread late ...

I think the first decision you have to make is whether pricing your book is primarily a moral or a pragmatic decision. If you believe it's simply wrong to give away something you worked hard to make, then you shouldn't do it. For such people, the moral position counts more than the profit that can come from freebies. This may be why rubyscribe used the language of "belief" to start off this thread.

If you see pricing as a pragmatic decision (which I do), then freebies can be very useful. As Konrath said ages ago, your writing is the best advertising for your writing. (Assuming that your writing is good, of course ... otherwise I supposed it'd be anti-advertising.) I think that's why freebies are so effective for first books in series. I plan to make _Nolander_ free again when I bring out the next book in the series, which won't be for some months.

Freebies are also very useful if you're an unknown quantity. When I made _Nolander _free in late May, using the advice of people here on KB, I got it on all the big free sites and kept it free for a full four days. I gave away 18K copies. In the five weeks since the book came off free, I've sold/borrowed 300, which is a big improvement over how the book was performing before. More importantly, my review total has gone from 8 to 22. I know that at least two of the reviewers downloaded the book for free because they said so. Others may have as well. At least two also downloaded it as a free borrow. Others may be paid readers who wouldn't have read the book if I hadn't done the free-promo because they wouldn't have known it existed. The additional reviews strike me as a valuable long-term investment in my writing's overall success, and they just wouldn't be there without the freebies.


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> Please let us know when you find the better way! (For the record, there isn't just ONE way to do any of this, but the beauty of the KB is that we can share what works, what doesn't, and look at all the options and try the flavors we like best.)


If I find it, I'll write a book about it - but don't look for it on KDP select...


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> As a business owner, I've noticed that many writers don't view their writing as a business. They get caught up in thinking that giving away a free book somehow devalues the worth of their art. It doesn't. It just gets them noticed.


I suspect some may be concerned with gaining the consumer's respect along with his dollars. One could contend that an author commands more respect when he can sell at $10 and doesn't have to give away free books. In that case, a consumer who pays $10 is showing more respect than a consumer who downloads a free book or pays $2. Aggregate all that respect, and the author feels good about himself.

This author would prefer [revenue of $10,000 by selling 1,000 books at $10] rather than [revenue of $20,000 by selling 10,000 books at $2.]

Note that in the above case respect becomes a function of dollars.

Among authors, we will probably find a wide distribution in their expressed preferences for dollars vs respect. However, I suspect the distribution will skew to the dollars when faced with a real choice. Dollars tend to have that effect.


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## andrewwrites (Jul 4, 2011)

This thread is great. Before Ebooks and the Kindle and KDP came out, there was probably 100 years of people writing books, not getting published and being extremely disappointed, and wishing they could get their writing out to someone, anyone. People would pay thousands and thousands of dollars to scammy self-pub companies in hopes of getting their book out there. Now there's a fast, efficient, FREE distribution network where literally ANYONE can get ANY book published to a worldwide audience, using a number of sites, and you can get hundreds or thousands of people downloading and reading it by clicking a button. And not only that, but a bunch of people are making tons of money from this, getting big traditional book deals, etc. 

But noooo, there always has to be someone saying there's a problem. "My ego won't let me give a book away!", etc. Then people point out that giving books away leads to more sales and it's "Well I guess we'll agree to disagree" haha WHAT.

People who can't figure out there is a case for giving books away are living in a dreamworld, alone with their egos and no readers. People who are giving books away are doing amazing (compared to the old days). This whole thing of saying these people have a "moral" argument against giving away books is not quite right. It's not a moral issue, people just have egos and they won't grow up and accept anything less than the dream scenario they made up years ago in their heads.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

andrewwrites said:


> This thread is great. Before Ebooks and the Kindle and KDP came out, there was probably 100 years of people writing books, not getting published and being extremely disappointed, and wishing they could get their writing out to someone, anyone. People would pay thousands and thousands of dollars to scammy self-pub companies in hopes of getting their book out there. Now there's a fast, efficient, FREE distribution network where literally ANYONE can get ANY book published to a worldwide audience, using a number of sites, and you can get hundreds or thousands of people downloading and reading it by clicking a button. And not only that, but a bunch of people are making tons of money from this, getting big traditional book deals, etc.
> 
> But noooo, there always has to be someone saying there's a problem. "My ego won't let me give a book away!", etc. Then people point out that giving books away leads to more sales and it's "Well I guess we'll agree to disagree" haha WHAT.
> 
> People who can't figure out there is a case for giving books away are living in a dreamworld, alone with their egos and no readers. People who are giving books away are doing amazing (compared to the old days). This whole thing of saying these people have a "moral" argument against giving away books is not quite right. It's not a moral issue, people just have egos and they won't grow up and accept anything less than the dream scenario they made up years ago in their heads.


Daaaaaaamn Andrew. Don't sugarcoat it or anything.  haha. Love it.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> If I find it, I'll write a book about it - but don't look for it on KDP select...


So, if you find a key for success in book-selling, you're not going to share it? You're going to charge for it? After all the free advice that people are giving here on KB trying to support each other, and help each other find success? Please tell me that your sarcasm ran away with you and this isn't really what you meant ...


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## eBooksHabit (Mar 5, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> When I send free copies of my book to conventions for door prizes or charity auctions, I'm getting my books in front of captive audiences who went to the con with the intention to buy things, not find free stuff.


Julie... I like you and your perspective. As a publisher, you have to look at things from a different angle than I do as a person who only sells his own books, so I definitely appreciate your insights around here.

To counter the quote you made above, this is how I view going free and how it helps me to accomplish the same goal as you when sending out free copies as door prizes:

When I have a free promotion using KDP Select, I am pushing my book higher in the Amazon rankings in my niches and genres. Guess who browses those rankings for books? A captive audience with the intention to buy things from those ranking lists. People looking at other books to buy, may end up buying mine from appearing on the also-bought lists of many other books, thanks to my free promotion. Getting in front of THOSE people, by way of free promotions, is my goal and I have been successful at it. Is free the only way to do it? Absolutely not.

I just got my first royalties from Amazon. $11 (for two months, March and April... I published my first book at the end of March and was super busy in April.) I did a free promotion around 2/3rd of the way into May (I gave away 30,000). Before that, I had sold 43 books in May. Since then, I have sold 1,011 (sales+ borrows, but i make more on borrows than sales, so i count them). That is because I appeared higher in the rankings for my niche, as well as appearing on the also-bought lists. I don't have a series. I don't have a previous following. (And yes, my 30,000 to 1,000 ratio for the ratio person probably looks horrible, but the 1,000 worth of sales and borrows in 6 weeks will definitely add a nice chunk to my bank account in a couple of months.)

Just my thoughts on the matter.


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## Savannah_Page (Feb 16, 2012)

This is a "golden" time for writers (and readers). E-pubbing has really changed the publishing game in so many ways. One of the best ways it's changed for me is that it gives writers the ability to do...well...pretty much anything, anyway they want. Want to go free? Go for it. Sell at 99 cents? Have at it, hoss! $9.99 works for ya? Kudos! $2.99 your sweet spot? Hip-hip-hooray!

We get to wear the writing, publishing, and marketing hats in this game (most of us) and that means we get to choose whether or not we want to make our book free--whether long-term or as a promotion. Or even as part of the Amazon borrowing program (which we still get paid for).

I agree that writers should be given the opportunity to _sell_ their work, and readers should be willing to pay for something they consume. For me, personally, going free with Amazon's Select program has helped me make that opportunity happen. I may have had to give away thousands to get just a teensy bit noticed (and a teensy bit paid from post-free sales), but I'm happy with the program.

Would I love to make thousands of actual sales and never go free? Well, naturally. But I, like many indies here, am learning the ropes of this wild e-pubbing beast and am enjoying getting to see what works, what doesn't work, and most importantly I'm enjoying getting to share my words with anyone willing to listen...and occasionally making a few bucks along the way.

Summary: Do what works for you and what you want. It's a really awesome time to be a writer no matter what you choose to do or how you choose to do it!


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## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> So, if you find a key for success in book-selling, you're not going to share it? You're going to charge for it? After all the free advice that people are giving here on KB trying to support each other, and help each other find success? Please tell me that your sarcasm ran away with you and this isn't really what you meant ...


I think he was just making a joke about sticking to his belief that free giveaways are undesirable. Hence the wink after it. I don't think he is talking seriously about trying to make money off of this hypothetical how-to book. He may be a big Mr. Wrongy-wrong-wrong-pants about free promos , but he doesn't sound like an unpleasant person to me. Quite the opposite.


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## eBooksHabit (Mar 5, 2012)

rubyscribe said:


> People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing.


Yet you're firmly against the thought that, as an author, you should shell out a few dollars to make sure that you have a professional looking cover for your product that you want to sell to those people who you think should shell out a few dollars to read your writing.

A tad hypocritical, don't ya think?


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## Accord64 (Mar 12, 2012)

andrewwrites said:


> But noooo, there always has to be someone saying there's a problem. "My ego won't let me give a book away!", etc. Then people point out that giving books away leads to more sales and it's "Well I guess we'll agree to disagree" haha WHAT.
> 
> People who can't figure out there is a case for giving books away are living in a dreamworld, alone with their egos and no readers. People who are giving books away are doing amazing (compared to the old days). This whole thing of saying these people have a "moral" argument against giving away books is not quite right. It's not a moral issue, people just have egos and they won't grow up and accept anything less than the dream scenario they made up years ago in their heads.


May I suggest you reread my posts (or actually read them first)? I'm not against free. I Just have a problem with _too _much free.



> So, if you find a key for success in book-selling, you're not going to share it? You're going to charge for it? After all the free advice that people are giving here on KB trying to support each other, and help each other find success? Please tell me that your sarcasm ran away with you and this isn't really what you meant ...


Totally not serious. That's why I put the smiles at the end of my sentence -    

I think it's time to lighten this up. Honestly, I'm not "Mr. Burns".


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## eBooksHabit (Mar 5, 2012)

Accord64 said:


> I think it's time to lighten this up. Honestly, I'm not "Mr. Burns".


The greatest trick that Mr. Burns ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

andrewwrites said:


> People who can't figure out there is a case for giving books away are living in a dreamworld, alone with their egos and no readers. People who are giving books away are doing amazing (compared to the old days). This whole thing of saying these people have a "moral" argument against giving away books is not quite right. It's not a moral issue, people just have egos and they won't grow up and accept anything less than the dream scenario they made up years ago in their heads.


Well, that's where a lot of morality comes from: what makes us feel good about ourselves.

Hey, if some people feel more rewarded by always exacting a price for their work, that's fine by me. If I feel more rewarded by increased reviews and sales, hopefully that's fine by them.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> Totally not serious. That's why I put the smiles at the end of my sentence -
> 
> I think it's time to lighten this up. Honestly, I'm not "Mr. Burns".


And I'm not entirely humor-less. 

Although I think Mr. Burns would make a fine addition to the boards.


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## Heather Horrocks (Apr 14, 2011)

Very interesting information, folks. I have an ebook that has been free since Dec and had 220,000+ free downloads. My other books have definitely sold more because of it, but I'm wondering about taking it paid, and then free again later. Do any of you who have used the free-and-then-paid model have a specific number that tells you to change it back to paid? Or are you on Select so when your days are up, it goes back to paid?


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

Coming late to this thread ...

I've been an indie author since January of 2011.  When I published my 4th book in March (unpublished backlist, mind you), Daughter of Time, it immediately shot up the charts. I had it at 99 cents, which seemed like a good idea a year ago.  I was selling over 1000 a month until November, a couple of thousand books all told on Amazon, when everything dried up.  Even when KDP select came around, I didn't join, however, not wanting to lose all I'd gained at the other venues through Smashwords.

I made Daughter of Time free in mid-December.  I was selling only 15 a day at Amazon by that point--so $5 a day. Worst case, I figured I was losing the cost of a POI ad (at the time) if I made it free for a month.

Once Amazon price-matched on December 28th, I've given away over 80,000 books. With three additional books in the series, plus a novella, I've tripled my sales on Amazon in 2012.  Even my sales on Smashwords' venues are now comparable to the best months on Amazon in 2011.   

This is a business.  Free/not free is not a moral issue.  Do what works and what enables you to pay the bills so you can keep writing.  If it doesn't work for you, do something else.  We are fortunate as indie authors to be able to turn on a dime.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

rubyscribe said:


> I do not support making a book free. My novel is to debut soon and I have no intentions of giving away any free copies. People should shell out a few dollars to read a book that an author spent weeks, months or even years writing.


I haven't read through every post on this thread, so sorry if someone already said this...

You are making the common error of associating price with value. Price is strictly a marketing decision: it has nothing to do with the value of your book. From an emotional perspective, I completely understand how giving away the book you worked so hard on can be galling, but I think it's a shame for you to give up the power of using "free" for what it is: a promotional tool.

As others have said though, you must be true to yourself, and your feelings are certainly a valid consideration in how you run your business.


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## Nomadwoman (Aug 25, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> But they don't hand out whole wheels of cheese or complete boxes of chocolates. They give you a sample, which is what Amazon's "sample" and "look inside" do.
> 
> ARCs (Advance Reading Copies) are a tradition. They aren't handed out on street corners, though. Publishers target them to reviewers and retail outlets.
> 
> I'm not going to excorciate anyone for doing book giveaways, but the practice seems to be losing its effectiveness as a marketing tool.


I think this is the problem - with 2000 free books every day, we are teaching readers to buy free indies and only pay for "GOOD" books like "50 Shades of Grey".  I dont think 2.99 for a well written book is too much to ask however if people arent going to edit properly and don't know how to spell grammar that's a different thing.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

I guess my approach on it is: I want to get exposure as an author, but to readers at large, I have no street cred, I'm a nobody...so how do I make them believe I'm worth their time? 

The answer to that, for me anyway, has been using the "free" option strategically. Example: in the beginning of June, I made book 1 "Year of the Chick" free for two days, gave away over 10K copies, and my sequel "Last-Minute Love" released on that same day. In its first 3 weeks, I have sold 275 copies of the sequel,had  great reviews, 40 new Facebook fans, and to top it all off, my book 2 is priced a bit higher so it's been my way to make money.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's easy for me to say "I worked really hard on my books and I should get paid for all of them," but in a world where there's so many books to choose from, how do you make those readers pick you? For me, the "try this one for free, if you like it buy the second" strategy really worked. There's no way I would have sold 275 copies of a sequel in its first three weeks otherwise, because the book wouldn't have been able to build up the also-bought pages and popularity page exposure that quickly.  So to me it was a big success, on a personal level, and now it somehow continues to sell 4-7 copies a day, which is more than I ever sold of book 1 on a regular basis. 

I guess in the end it just depends on each individual's measure of what success is, and of how they feel their work should be valued. 

Wishing you good sales, free or no free   !


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## Louis Shalako (Apr 13, 2011)

It's extrememly hard to figure out why a book sells. It might be a little easier to figure out why it's _not _ selling.

But why enroll in Select if you're not going to have the free days? Your book could be on a dozen different sales platforms. I admit I have never read much about Select, and so I don't see the perceived value of doing it this way.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> I think this is the problem - with 2000 free books every day, we are teaching readers to buy free indies and only pay for "GOOD" books like "50 Shades of Grey".  I dont think 2.99 for a well written book is too much to ask however if people arent going to edit properly and don't know how to spell grammar that's a different thing.


It's almost embarrassing. I don't think I've paid for a book for a couple of months now. It's too easy to find really good indie books for free. I don't even have to make a conscious decision to look for free stuff. All I have to do is review my Twitter stream, which is loaded with other indie authors like me, and a half-dozen free books are a few clicks away. These are often books by authors I know, and half of them are sitting on my TBR list anyway!

One thing that is different from what you are saying though is that I'm not spending money on other non-indie titles. I've been reading exclusively indie for quite some time now (except occasional trad books from the library), and if I like the book, I try to reward the author with a review. Now that Amazon is getting weird about authors reviewing other authors I skip that site, but I'll put a sentence or two on Goodreads. If I'm inspired to say more, I'll post a full review on my blog. I may not be giving them cash, but the review recipients seem to be appreciative.


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## Cheryl M. (Jan 11, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> don't know how to spell grammar that's a different thing.


Woke up to a gajillion emails on this thread.  I decided to just read the last page and this struck me as HI-larius! Thanks for the chuckle.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> I think the take-away here is how hard it is to sell indie MG, even when they already like the author. At least I've seen that with other author-friends who have both YA and MG books out - YA sells like crazy, MG a bare trickle.


This confirms what I've heard as well. My second MG title was actually first-drafted before I started self-publishing. I really considered leaving it in the drawer, but I just spent a few weeks revising it because ... I guess just because I wanted to.  I'd love to write more middle-grade, because it's so much fun, but it'll take a back seat for now.


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## RedGolum (Nov 2, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I suspect some may be concerned with gaining the consumer's respect along with his dollars. One could contend that an author commands more respect when he can sell at $10 and doesn't have to give away free books. In that case, a consumer who pays $10 is showing more respect than a consumer who downloads a free book or pays $2. Aggregate all that respect, and the author feels good about himself.
> 
> This author would prefer [revenue of $10,000 by selling 1,000 books at $10] rather than [revenue of $20,000 by selling 10,000 books at $2.]
> 
> ...


Very true. In my field, giving product away for "free" (Trial sample, or product demo) is the only way my customers will buy by product. Simply put, they want to try the product before placing an order. Same thing when I order equipment. I will not spend $100K on something I can not try first. Now, I have vendors who said "You don't respect me! Why should I let you try out my hard work for free!". I don't order from them, because I will not spend the companies money on an unproven product.

Same think with novels. For an indie author, it helps to have the fist in a series for a reduced cost. It is like a trial of a new product. You are trying to get the second, third, fourth, etc sale by giving up a bit on the first.

Now, you have to be careful in how you structure it, but this is sales 101.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> I really considered leaving it in the drawer, but I just spent a few weeks revising it because ... I guess just because I wanted to. I'd love to write more middle-grade, because it's so much fun, but it'll take a back seat for now.


I've been struggling with exactly this for a while. I LOVE my MG stories and would really like to publish them, but I don't think the indie MG market is there (yet). It's hard to justify spending time on an MS that you know is less likely to sell than other stories that you love just as much. In the end, I decided that I love the MG works I have too much not to finish them, and at least give them a shot at being read (although I may shop trad-pub's first). Then, if only a few sell, that's a few more readers than zero.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> This author would prefer [revenue of $10,000 by selling 1,000 books at $10] rather than [revenue of $20,000 by selling 10,000 books at $2.]


I keep seeing the same thing, and I find it fascinating. That kind of thinking is commonly based on incorrect assumptions:


"You get more sales at a lower price and fewer sales at a higher price." _Good basic economic theory that often fails in practice._
"If you give away too many copies, you will saturate the market." _At the rate the digital market is growing, the market is limitless for all practical purposes._

We all have the power to price test. Use it! Let the readers tell you what price they are willing to pay for your books.

Everything about this industry is changing so rapidly, that the only financial strategy that makes sense is to optimize the revenue you earn each month, regardless of how many units that means. We don't have the luxury of "waiting" for sales that might happen later. KDP Select could be gone or work completely differently six months from now. The time to get your book into the hands of readers is NOW.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I suspect some may be concerned with gaining the consumer's respect along with his dollars. One could contend that an author commands more respect when he can sell at $10 and doesn't have to give away free books. In that case, a consumer who pays $10 is showing more respect than a consumer who downloads a free book or pays $2. Aggregate all that respect, and the author feels good about himself.
> 
> This author would prefer [revenue of $10,000 by selling 1,000 books at $10] rather than [revenue of $20,000 by selling 10,000 books at $2.]
> 
> ...


I find that a fascinating attitude, Terrance. You prefer both fewer readers AND less money. Of course, you assume that dollars equal respect. What does that mean about any novel on Project Gutenberg? I think I find this so baffling because we have an uncrossable difference of philosophy.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> I've been struggling with exactly this for a while. I LOVE my MG stories and would really like to publish them, but I don't think the indie MG market is there (yet). It's hard to justify spending time on an MS that you know is less likely to sell than other stories that you love just as much. In the end, I decided that I love the MG works I have too much not to finish them, and at least give them a shot at being read (although I may shop trad-pub's first). Then, if only a few sell, that's a few more readers than zero.


And you'll be ahead of the game if/when the MG ebook market takes off!


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2012)

Sarah Woodbury said:


> I made Daughter of Time free in mid-December. I was selling only 15 a day at Amazon by that point--so $5 a day. Worst case, I figured I was losing the cost of a POI ad (at the time) if I made it free for a month.
> 
> Once Amazon price-matched on December 28th, I've given away over 80,000 books. With three additional books in the series, plus a novella, I've tripled my sales on Amazon in 2012. Even my sales on Smashwords' venues are now comparable to the best months on Amazon in 2011.


Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so please correct me if I am not reading your post properly. In December you had one book for sale. You were selling 15 copies a day of one book. After giving away *80,000 copies,* you are selling 45 books a day across *four books* because since December you have added more titles to your account. That means your sales volume _per book_ went down to 11.25 copies per day per book.

It would appear your sales volume increased because of an increase in titles, not an increase in sales per title. I don't see where the 80,000 free downloads benefited you at all.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

In the larger scheme, it doesn't matter one bit what individual decisions we make today, so you may as well do what you want. Free Genie ain't going back in the bottle, and what you are worth is a decision that is only half yours anyway. No right or wrong, and Kindleboarders don't get to singlehandedly shape digital history. We were just here when the train rolled through, that's all.


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## Rachel Schurig (Apr 9, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> I think this is the problem - with 2000 free books every day, we are teaching readers to buy free indies and only pay for "GOOD" books like "50 Shades of Grey".  I dont think 2.99 for a well written book is too much to ask however if people arent going to edit properly and don't know how to spell grammar that's a different thing.


But this argument ignores the point made by several on this thread (including myself) that their paid sales increased greatly after a run of free giveaways. People *are* willing to pay for the books that they want. Free is a tool that allows you to show those people (that have never heard of you) that _you_ are what they want.


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## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so please correct me if I am not reading your post properly. In December you had one book for sale. You were selling 15 copies a day of one book. After giving away *80,000 copies,* you are selling 45 books a day across *four books* because since December you have added more titles to your account. That means your sales volume _per book_ went down to 11.25 copies per day per book.
> 
> It would appear your sales volume increased because of an increase in titles, not an increase in sales per title. I don't see where the 80,000 free downloads benefited you at all.


I agree that that could be parsed two different ways. But Sarah had many books out by December. I think she is just listing off the rest of the series that benefited from that particular free one, not telling you what she put up since December. She may have added one or so to the series this year. Maybe she will correct me...


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2012)

Nathan Elliott said:


> I agree that that could be parsed two different ways. But Sarah had many books out by December. I think she is just listing off the rest of the series that benefited from that particular free one, not telling you what she put up since December. She may have added one or so to the series this year. Maybe she will correct me...


Which is why I asked. When I see numbers, I instinctively start parsing them. The number of books involved in this is a factor as to whether or not this is a huge success or a failure in terms of marketing. Without knowing the number of titles involved, it's like trying to solve the math problem 2 + ____=______ I can't complete the problem because the problem isn't presented completely.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

> This is a business. Free/not free is not a moral issue. Do what works and what enables you to pay the bills so you can keep writing. If it doesn't work for you, do something else. We are fortunate as indie authors to be able to turn on a dime.


Very well put.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> I find that a fascinating attitude, Terrance. You prefer both fewer readers AND less money. Of course, you assume that dollars equal respect. What does that mean about any novel on Project Gutenberg? I think I find this so baffling because we have an uncrossable difference of philosophy.


It is a fascinating attitude, but it's not one I share. It's one I observe. Relating my observations doesn't mean I share the observed attitude.


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so please correct me if I am not reading your post properly. In December you had one book for sale. You were selling 15 copies a day of one book. After giving away *80,000 copies,* you are selling 45 books a day across *four books* because since December you have added more titles to your account. That means your sales volume _per book_ went down to 11.25 copies per day per book.
> 
> It would appear your sales volume increased because of an increase in titles, not an increase in sales per title. I don't see where the 80,000 free downloads benefited you at all.


Sorry, Julie, if I wasn't clear as I could have been. I didn't know how explicit I needed to be, but here goes: In December, I was selling 15 copies a day of _Daughter of Time_, a 99 cent book, a prequel to a series which included two others (_Footsteps in Time_ and _Prince of Time_). I had 7 books available at Amazon at the time and averaged about 66 sales or so a day all told, including sales for the 99 cent book. Of those sales, I was selling 13 a day of _Footsteps_ (priced at $2.99), and 10 a day of _Prince _ (priced at $3.99). In May (just to take one of the last 6 months as an example) I averaged 54 sales a day of _Footsteps_ and 40 a day of _Prince_. In addition, I averaged 35 a day of _Crossroads _ and 21 a day of the novella, _Winds of Time_ (both of which you correctly point out I put up this spring). So yeah, giving my book away for free was the best thing I ever did.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Sarah Woodbury said:


> Coming late to this thread ...
> 
> I've been an indie author since January of 2011. When I published my 4th book in March (unpublished backlist, mind you), Daughter of Time, it immediately shot up the charts. I had it at 99 cents, which seemed like a good idea a year ago. I was selling over 1000 a month until November, a couple of thousand books all told on Amazon, when everything dried up. Even when KDP select came around, I didn't join, however, not wanting to lose all I'd gained at the other venues through Smashwords.
> 
> ...


This is so smart (making it free on another platform then waiting for Amazon to price match.)


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> Do whatever you think is right for you. I'll do what's right for me.


Exactly. Also, every time my book has been free, it has turned into one of my best months--even this month. I made my first book free on the 7th&8th. Sales had been pretty dismal prior. I'm not sure I even had 100 sales between all three--including borrows. After making my first book free, and having 19,000 downloads, I've gone on to have my third best month ever. My very best month was last June, before Select and my book went free via price matching. The second best month was in March, when I used Select to make the first book free again. My third book also came out that month, so that added a surge to that month. Even with all the freebies, and this being a 'slow' month, I've topped my third best month, which had been January. I had free days on the last day of December, so that helped with that month, but I only had two books out at the time.

I get that free doesn't work all the time or for everyone, but it works for me. It's a legit marketing tool that Amazon has provided for me, and I would be stupid not to use it.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> So yeah, giving my book away for free was the best thing I ever did.


Now that creates a dilemma. When theory conflicts with what we see with our own lying eyes, which do we believe?


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

Yeah. I can see that.

The numbers are there for Barnes and Noble too:
In November, I sold 52 _Footsteps_ the whole month and 44 _Princes_.
In February (because I distribute through Smashwords, the data sheet is messy so I don't have info on subsequent months), I sold 495 _Footsteps_ and 400 _Princes_. I hadn't yet released _Crossroads _or _Winds_.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

I think this pro-piracy video applies. But instead of "Copying is not theft" it could be "Free is not a loss".






When you put your book for free and a million people grab it up, you haven't actually "lost" anything. So if it's a 1,000,000:1 ratio or a 100:1,000,000 ratio you aren't losing anything and you're gaining everything. You don't have 1 less in inventory. You give someone a copy and then you still have just as many more to give away.

ETA: I don't _necessarily_ condone the filmmakers philosophy on copyright and piracy (although it all seemed to work out okay for her). That's a slippery slope that isn't part of this conversation.


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## ChrisVC (Mar 25, 2012)

That video is funny.


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> I think the take-away here is how hard it is to sell indie MG, even when they already like the author. At least I've seen that with other author-friends who have both YA and MG books out - YA sells like crazy, MG a bare trickle.


I can think of two reasons: 1. Adults read YA too, but rarely read MG and 2, Teen readers can make online payments while MG-aged readers can't. (And 3 - teens tend to share fave books, tv, songs, etc on Facebook and Twitter, whereas MG-ages are more isolated due to parental control over internet access.)

On the other hand, if you write MG you need print copies and you should be doing author visits to schools and libraries. Free at first, if you have to, but do charge for visits eventually.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

And Simon knows what he's talking about - listen to him! 

Simon, you're one of the few I've seen make a go of indie MG, but I think that's because you had a good sense of how that market worked before you dived in. 

Hope sales are going well!


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

DRMarvello said:


> ...The time to get your book into the hands of readers is NOW.


And yet all of your "advice" is about diminishing the numbers of readers who purchase your book. Can you spell "hypocrisy"?


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

pamclaughton said:


> Yes, I pay attention to what Marie says as she's doing very well! over 300k books sold so far, and March was over 60k total sold. She is a fast writer and writes full time now. I remember last year about this time we were at the RWA conference in NY and she'd just had an amazing June, but was concerned that it might be a fluke so wasn't ready to quit her day job yet. It never slowed down, and just kept getting better as she continued to write more books in the series, so she went full-time early this year.
> 
> She does a really good job of using Facebook to promote her books in a way I haven't seen many (or even any) other authors doing. She has reader groups on Facebook that discuss the books in her series and there's over 600 members. I'm paying attention and plan to someday do something similar. Here's a link to a recent interview that you may find interesting, http://elizaknight.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/self-published-interview-marie-force/


I plan on putting book 1 permanently free in my angel series and after I get a second up in my history-mystery line, I'll probably do the same with it. I think if I have four or five series out there, with first books free, I may be able to make a go of this writing thing.
Unless of course, I get a traditional contract for any one of them.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "You get more sales at a lower price and fewer sales at a higher price." Good basic economic theory that often fails in practice.


Often? Relative to what? Can you elaborate on that?

We see downward sloping demand curves in commerce all over the place. It's far beyond theory. The Underwear Bomber even confirmed them by choosing the cheapest flight to a US city. Are you suggesting we often encounter upward sloping demand curves in reality?

We do have a class of Veblen goods, and I acknowledge demand for this small class of goods decreases with price decreases. Veblens are usually luxury goods. Things like designer gowns, Ferraris, or fine wines.

We also have Giffen goods that are easy to construct in theory, but much harder to observe in reality. Giffens are inferior goods. Consumption increases as prices of inferior goods rises because superior substitutes rise out of income range.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Ebooks as a group have their price elasticity, but then, individual books have their own price elasticity. I think there might be a "sweet spot" for every book to maximize profits.

Or ... if you have a series and make one book free, that could be the equivalent of your loss leader.

Lots of cool economic theories to play around with as a publisher who can change things practically in real-time!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> Often? Relative to what? Can you elaborate on that?
> 
> We see downward sloping demand curves in commerce all over the place. It's far beyond theory. The Underwear Bomber even confirmed them by choosing the cheapest flight to a US city. Are you suggesting we often encounter upward sloping demand curves in reality?
> 
> ...


Giffen goods are "harder to observe in reality"? Try impossible since I am pretty sure that it has never been observed in reality.

But of course there are times when prices rise and sales increase because overall demand increases. In the change over to automobiles, prices of cars went up even as sales increased because more people were buying them. (An oversimplification of the pricing but largely true)

If the number of people buying eBooks increase then sales will increase even if the prices don't come down substantially.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Giffen developed the idea in the later 1800s while studying the poor in England and Ireland. It seems to apply to food at the very bottom of the economic scale. During the Irish potato famine (prior to Giffen) there were reports that people who ate potatos and turnips considered potatos to be the inferior good. When the price of both increased, they could not afford turnips, so they spent all their money on potatos, even as the price of potatos increased. [I think it was turnips.]

Prices and consumption can certainly increase, but that involves shifting the D-curve to the right. It is still downward sloping with a negative demand elasticity.

I agree that increased eBook sales at a fixed price yields more revenue. In that case the demand curve shifts to the right, maintaining a downward slope and negative demand elasticity.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Or ... if you have a series and make one book free, that could be the equivalent of your loss leader.
> Lots of cool economic theories to play around with as a publisher who can change things practically in real-time!


In that case, the object of promotion is to shift the demand curves to the right. In simple terms, that means that at every price level, more units will be sold. So if book #1 in a series is free, the objective is to shift the demand curve for books #2, #3, and #4 to the right.

If successful, this should also shift the D-curve for #1, but the effect wouldn't be seen until it went back to paid.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)




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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Greg Banks said:


> And yet all of your "advice" is about diminishing the numbers of readers who purchase your book. Can you spell "hypocrisy"?


Wow. That was unnecessarily rude.

I'm not sure what advice I gave would diminish the number of readers. I suggested doing price testing to find the revenue sweet spot. That price might be a lot of sales at a low price, or fewer sales at a high price. If the high price won, I suppose you could construe that as diminishing the number of readers, but as we've seen here on KB, you sometimes get *more* readers at a higher price.

My comment about "getting your book into the hands of readers now" was referring to authors who aren't getting sales and who aren't taking advantage of price testing (i.e. those who are "waiting").

Also, I believe there's a difference between "readers" and "units downloaded/sold." I just gave away about 5,700 copies of my book during a free campaign. I don't for a minute think that translates to 5,700 readers. I suspect that the majority of the people who downloaded my book will never get around to reading it. The same bargain hunting mentality happens at ultra-low prices like 99 cents. Buyers grab the book, but may or may not read it.

I believe that price testing not only maximizes revenue, but it helps you find the point on the price/sales curve where true readers feel your work delivers the best value. It's where the market is most "happy" with what you are charging. I would rather have fewer, happy buyers who actually read my book than a large number of buyers who never actually turn into readers. I know I'm playing with semantics here, but I do believe that price testing maximizes the number of actual readers regardless of how many units you sell. By extension, that means my "advice" (such as it is) is intended to help you get your books into the hands of *more* readers, not fewer.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Terrence OBrien said:


> We see downward sloping demand curves in commerce all over the place. It's far beyond theory. The Underwear Bomber even confirmed them by choosing the cheapest flight to a US city. Are you suggesting we often encounter upward sloping demand curves in reality?


Did he really Wonder when he was planning to use the $50 he saved. Boy, every so often, something comes along and reminds me me how _utterly ridiculous_ human beings can be.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> I believe that price testing not only maximizes revenue


YES - and it's something that's easy to quantify.



> but it helps you find the point on the price/sales curve where true readers feel your work delivers the best value.


I have no idea how you would ever measure this.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> Often? Relative to what? Can you elaborate on that?


Sorry to be vague, Terrence. We're talking about e-books here, so my comment was referring to anecdotal evidence I've seen here on KB and elsewhere relating to ebook pricing. I've seen multiple authors claim that they started selling more books when they raised their price. I think the theory was that readers were starting to use price as a basis for judging quality. I recently read a thread (possibly here?) about 99-cent pricing becoming ineffective (not that there was agreement about that).

Any macro theory falls apart at the micro level because there are always exceptions. In this case, my use of the term "often" may have been an exaggeration with regard to the frequency of those exceptions in ebook pricing, and I apologize for that.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> I have no idea how you would ever measure this.


Let me take it a step further. By "delivers the best value," I'm saying that readers walk away satisfied with what they paid for the reading experience.

I think we could measure an increase in reader satisfaction in a couple of ways. One way would be to see how many reviews you got per sale, and possibly even the ratings associated with those reviews. From what I understand, the typical ratio of reviews to sales is about 1%. If you price tested to the sweet spot and saw a corresponding increase in the ratio (say to 2%), that would indicate that you found a larger percentage of readers who felt strongly enough about your work to post a review. Most of us would see that as an overall positive result.

Ratings would be a tougher call. Consider that many authors complain that free campaigns tend to generate 1-star reviews. That indicates "free" isn't reaching the "right" readers. If price testing results in higher overall ratings, that indicates that you *have* reached the right readers. Overall, more readers had a satisfying reading experience.

All of this speculation assumes that price has an effect on how readers feel about the reading experience. I know that it does with me (I hate paying a lot of money for a crappy book), but it may not for everyone. Although I "believe" that price testing would help you find the most satisfied readers, I don't claim it to be a fact, and you are welcome to disagree with my theory.  Hopefully, I'll get a chance to apply these metrics one day and find out for myself.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> From what I understand, the typical ratio of reviews to sales is about 1%. If you price tested to the sweet spot and saw a corresponding increase in the ratio (say to 2%)


While that sounds compelling, most likely that is still in the "noise" as to what your response rate was - unless you're selling tens of thousands of books, and getting a good statistical sample size.



> That indicates "free" isn't reaching the "right" readers.


This is obvious on its face, and what is the common experience of going free - you're reaching a large number of people who download on "impulse" and only a small fraction of those will actually be your target audience. However, since the number of downloads is huge, you are still going to end up reaching more of your target audience, on a numbers basis.



> Although I "believe" that price testing would help you find the most satisfied readers, I don't claim it to be a fact, and you are welcome to disagree with my theory.


You're not the only one that "believes" this (I have other friends say the same thing), but I think it's based mostly on wishful thinking (yay! people will like my book if I charge more for it!) or personal experience (I like books that I pay more money for, because dang it! I paid $$$ for this!). Both of those don't make great underpinnings for an actual theory as to why this would hold true for most readers (not to mention that readers are far from a homogenous group). Which is why I put the emphasis on *measurement*. 

I think the only true measurement of "satisfied readers" is how many of your readers are willing to purchase *another* one of your books (after having actually read the first one). That kind of "sell-through" number is possibly (but tricky) to measure. The first book may be free or have some cost, but it's how much the reader is willing to pay for book#2 that gives you some idea of how much they "value" your work.

In that sense, it doesn't matter how much they pay for the first one. What matters is if they come back for more, and how much you can charge without losing readership.

*p.s. I recently raised the price on my book#2 to test this theory of mine (from $2.99 to $3.99) and saw no change in sales - which tells me that I was underpriced at $2.99 on Book#2, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything with regards to Book#1.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> While that sounds compelling, most likely that is still in the "noise" as to what your response rate was - unless you're selling tens of thousands of books, and getting a good statistical sample size.


I won't disagree with you there. That's why I can't currently get anything useful out of these measurements for my book, which *ahem* does not sell in the tens of thousands. I used 1% and 2% just for illustration. Certainly, your specific sample size would dictate what figure would actually be significant.



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> This is obvious on its face, and what is the common experience of going free - you're reaching a large number of people who download on "impulse" and only a small fraction of those will actually be your target audience. However, since the number of downloads is huge, you are still going to end up reaching more of your target audience, on a numbers basis.


Probably true. But part of the equation is how many of those readers, even the ones in your target audience, will actually *read* your book. If they got it for free, I'm positing that the answer is, "A lot fewer than if they had paid for it."



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> You're not the only one that "believes" this (I have other friends say the same thing), but I think it's based mostly on wishful thinking (yay! people will like my book if I charge more for it!) or personal experience (I like books that I pay more money for, because dang it! I paid $$$ for this!). Both of those don't make great underpinnings for an actual theory as to why this would hold true for most readers (not to mention that readers are far from a homogenous group). Which is why I put the emphasis on *measurement*.


I understand what you are saying, but I'm not actually suggesting that the sweet spot is necessarily at a high price. It could very well be that the sweet spot is 99 cents.



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> I think the only true measurement of "satisfied readers" is how many of your readers are willing to purchase *another* one of your books (after having actually read the first one). That kind of "sell-through" number is possibly (but tricky) to measure. The first book may be free or have some cost, but it's how much the reader is willing to pay for book#2 that gives you some idea of how much they "value" your work.


Absolutely! If only I were ready to publish my second book and prove that. But I would still do price testing on both the first book and the second. The sweet spot could be very different for the two books, and in fact, I would expect it to be.



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> In that sense, it doesn't matter how much they pay for the first one. What matters is if they come back for more, and how much you can charge without losing readership.


I'm not an advocate of charging as much as you can without losing readership, although that is certainly one possible goal for your price testing. Some authors see their readership/sales go up as they charge more for their book, and then go down as they push the price beyond a certain threshold. But if you are optimizing for earnings, the price before which sales start to drop off may not be the sweet spot.

It occurs to me that I'm building an argument for the theory that maximum earnings (not sales) correlates to maximum reader satisfaction. Yikes. Well, it should be easy enough to prove or disprove that theory if one has enough titles and readers to test it.


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

DRMarvello said:


> Wow. That was unnecessarily rude.
> 
> I'm not sure what advice I gave would diminish the number of readers. I suggested doing price testing to find the revenue sweet spot. That price might be a lot of sales at a low price, or fewer sales at a high price. If the high price won, I suppose you could construe that as diminishing the number of readers, but as we've seen here on KB, you sometimes get *more* readers at a higher price.
> 
> ...


Actually I owe you an apology. I read that backwards last night. You were responding to a quoted thought, not agreeing with the ideal that I was railing against.

_(need a "bangs head against wall" smiley now...)_


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> It occurs to me that I'm building an argument for the theory that maximum earnings (not sales) correlates to maximum reader satisfaction. Yikes.


Methinks you are uncomfortable with maximizing earnings, which is very interesting. 

You can try to maximize earnings (by finding the sweet spot trade off between price and readership) or you can try to maximize sales (by pricing low). The argument on this thread is that having a loss leader book (free) in a series (paid) does both - maximum earnings and maximum sales by increasing the pool of readers that know about your book.

I think you want to maximize "reader satisfaction" - your theory being that it's related to price - and that somehow you can price test to find this maximum reader satisfaction. But I think you are seeking something you cannot measure (especially with one book), and will be frustrated in the end.

Mostly I think you really need to decide what will leave you satisfied as a _writer_. If you want a 100% satisfaction rate, only share it with your mom and your sister. If you want as many people as possible to read it, give it away for free. If you want to make sure you can justify the time and expense to keep writing, maximize your earnings.

But most of all, keep writing and publishing, and don't judge anything until you have more than one book out in the marketplace. It's far too easy to focus on these things and not on what's most important: writing the next book.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> 'Did he really Wonder when he was planning to use the $50 he saved. Boy, every so often, something comes along and reminds me me how utterly ridiculous human beings can be. "


He did. Seems the boys were sitting around in Yemen trying to figure out which US city to bomb. They had lots of flights to choose from, but they picked Detroit because it had the cheapest fare.

I fully intend to steal the idea. Can you see the terrorists picking targets based on their frequent flyer account balances or upgrade coupons? It's pure gold.


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## RikNieu (Jun 2, 2012)

Terrence OBrien said:


> He did. Seems the boys were sitting around in Yemen trying to figure out which US city to bomb. They had lots of flights to choose from, but they picked Detroit because it had the cheapest fare.
> 
> I fully intend to steal the idea. Can you see the terrorists picking targets based on their frequent flyer account balances or upgrade coupons? It's pure gold.


Be sure to make it a comedy though, who the hell would want to bomb Detroit? That would be like trying to mug a hobo.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Greg Banks said:


> Actually I owe you an apology. I read that backwards last night. You were responding to a quoted thought, not agreeing with the ideal that I was railing against.


Thanks for taking the time to explain. I appreciate it.



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> Methinks you are uncomfortable with maximizing earnings, which is very interesting.


No, I'm a firm believer in price testing with maximizing earnings as the goal. What I'm uncomfortable with is my theory that maximized earnings somehow relates to maximized reader satisfaction. 



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> I think you want to maximize "reader satisfaction" - your theory being that it's related to price - and that somehow you can price test to find this maximum reader satisfaction. But I think you are seeking something you cannot measure (especially with one book), and will be frustrated in the end.


No argument there. I hope that some day I will have the books and readers necessary to test the theory.



Susan Kaye Quinn said:


> But most of all, keep writing and publishing, and don't judge anything until you have more than one book out in the marketplace. It's far too easy to focus on these things and not on what's most important: writing the next book.


Amen to that. I obviously spend far too much time on KindleBoards.


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## rubyscribe (Jun 2, 2011)

200! 

and sorry I am not reading anymore, as I send this dispatch from cloud nine! (Hint: see the addition to my signature below)


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Terrence OBrien said:


> He did. Seems the boys were sitting around in Yemen trying to figure out which US city to bomb. They had lots of flights to choose from, but they picked Detroit because it had the cheapest fare.
> 
> I fully intend to steal the idea. Can you see the terrorists picking targets based on their frequent flyer account balances or upgrade coupons? It's pure gold.


That is is. It's reminding me of something I've read recently, but I'm not quite coming up with it ...


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

You mean some hack has already stolen the idea I was going to steal?


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

> I obviously spend far too much time on KindleBoards.


LOL! You and me both.


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