# "This ebook thing is not going to last." (UPDATED: HP Touchpad bites the dust)



## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

That's what I was told my a salesperson in the electronics section of a major store.

I was browsing the different devices, trying to figure out of I'd like to get an iPad or an HP Touchpad *(see the update at the bottom of this post!)* at some point. (Incidentally, both seem pretty cool to me and I was impressed with the HP.)

I was approached by a very eager but nice salesperson. We had a short conversation about the devices and I mentioned that I have a Kindle.

He laughed and said they were useless. His point was that you can read books on any other tablet, so why would you want a black-and-white one that can't do much on the Internet? I told him I do a LOT of reading and I read ebooks almost exclusively now, and my Kindle is fabulous.

"This ebook thing isn't going to last," he said.

I went on to cite some of the numbers we've all seen in the press over the last year or so, detailing the sales explosion of ebooks and related devices. "Plus," I said, "I write ebooks and if I buy a tablet from you, the money I would be spending was earned from those sales."

I smiled, trying not to come off as harsh or sarcastic; I was just making a point.

He said, "Huh. Interesting," and dropped the subject.










Just thought I'd share that little story from my morning out shopping. 

*UPDATE*

Check this out: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2011/08/HP-TouchPad-is-a-casualty-of-iPads-popularity/50047542/1

_HP pulled the plug Thursday on its TouchPad tablet device, which was launched June 1, and plans to discontinue its WebOS-based smartphones._

And this: http://gizmodo.com/5832304/so-will-touchpad-buyers-get-full-refunds

_HP has officially killed webOS. Offed it with two dinky sentences in a dinky little press release. It's sad, sure. But what about everyone who bought the $500 (then $450, then $400) hunk of now-scrap metal that's called TouchPad?_

Yikes.


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## Me and My Kindle (Oct 20, 2010)

That reminds me of the episode of _The Office_ where Daryl walks into a bookstore, and the nice lady behind the counter asks if he'd like to try an ereader.








"I work at a paper company," Daryl said. "Those things terrify me. They could put us out of business! I heard those things hold like 10 books at once."

"Actually, it's 10,000."

"Holy ####! What? Let me see it&#8230;"

And by the end of the episode, Daryl's _bought_ himself an ereader.

But you know what's really funny? The bookstore he walked into was Borders -- and _they're_ the ones who didn't last. Shortly after that episode aired, they declared bankruptcy!


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

There does seem to be a tendency for fans of one technology not to be able to imagine that anyone could want something else. There are reasons to prefer a Kindle over a tablet: cost, weight, batter life, e-ink, for example. And there are reasons to want a tablet. But some people just can't even imagine that someone else could actually want something other than what they want.


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## J_T (May 16, 2011)

Until they can make an e-ink tablet, e-readers are going to be around, and maybe even after that.  the size of the kindle is perfect, I wouldn't want it any bigger


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

_Unless it's at a very cheap pricepoint,_ there really will be little demand for standalone e-readers, probably just in the next yr or 2. Has nothing to do with personal prejudices against devices.

Very soon they will be able to provide the same excellent (or better) reading technology that Amazon provides in the Kindle in other tablets....perhaps even in what they will be releasing in the next few months.

They already have tablets of nearly the same size and weight, for example, the HTC Flyer. Improvements in tablet memory, apps, functionality, and screens are constant....

So I'd say that the while e-books are here to stay, e-readers arent...except as barebones, cheap (but perfectly adequate) resources. I see a market for these in schools...where they might not want the added distractions provided by multi-functional tablets.

btw, to the OP, there is a difference between e-books and e-readers (title mentioned e-books but discussion focused on Kindles and e-readers.) Jus sayin'


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## VKScott (Apr 14, 2011)

Erica Sloane said:


> "This ebook thing isn't going to last," he said.


::shrug:: Heck, _my life_ isn't going to last. But I'll enjoy it while I can.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

DiscoDan said:


> Until they can make an e-ink tablet, e-readers are going to be around, and maybe even after that. the size of the kindle is perfect, I wouldn't want it any bigger


As QuantumIquana said, everyone has their own needs and wants.

I don't think we'll ever see e-ink tablets (unless you consider the Kindle DX 1) and the screen tech is just too limited for anything but reading and tablets are multipurpose devices. What we well see are dual mode screens like Mirasol that can switch between LCD and non-backlit e-ink like mode for reading.

Size is just personal preference. I don't carry my Kindle around anyway and usually take my iPad since it can do more. I prefer reading on a bigger screen as it's less page turns. And the bigger screen is better for PDFs of letter sized documents etc. which I read a lot of on my iPad. But the Kindle's size is definitely a huge plus for those who just read novels and carry their e-reader around with them.

So I think there's plenty of room in the market for tablets and dedicated e-ink reader devices for the foreseeable future. There are plenty of people like me that do all kinds of gadget related stuff and find tablets handy. And there are plenty of people who just want a small, portable device to do nothing but read on.

With the Kindle already being down as low as $114, dedicated readers are already getting to that point of being a very cheap device for people who just want something to read on to buy even if they're not a super avid reader. And also cheap enough for people like me to have the best of both worlds by owning an e-reader to complement our tablets!


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## Tinderbox (UK) (Apr 24, 2011)

Have you guys seen this video it`s Eric Morecambe Harry Enfield , it`s not an ereader but it`s funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

What I think isn't going to last are physical books. I'm thinking within 20 years they may become a luxury or niche item because of the financial and environmental costs of producing them.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Give me a tablet that has the low cost, light weight, low power consumption and readability of an e-ink e-reader, and I'm in there. I could go camping away from electricity, and my Kindle would work just fine. With a tablet, I would need to recharge.

E-readers are only going to decrease in price. I bought a CD player in 1985 for $250. It had an external battery pack (which cost extra) which took D-Cell batteries, and would drain them in a few hours. Playback skipped at the slightest bump.

Today, I can buy a $10 CD player that runs off AA batteries, runs for a long time, and has little skipping. I seems that e-readers will follow a similar trend, the costs to make them keep going down. In the unlikely event that Amazon chose to discontinue standalone readers, other companies would continue to make them. Smart phones haven't eliminated "dumb" phones. My phone just makes calls, it's all I need. There are enough people like me to make the market for "dumb" phones viable.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I think that paper books will last, although the market will change. We're not going to see the market for e-readers from forever, it will taper off at some point. I think that smaller bookstores may be able to thrive again. The big box stores were unresponsive to local markets, changing them is like turning a supertanker. The market for paper books will be smaller, but it probably will still be around, even if the big box stores wind up being nonviable.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

For me, $114 is alot of money. I see low pricepoint for standalone e-readers as under $50. And I can see uses for them..schools for one thing, for disposibility (taking with them where they might get damaged, less $ loss),  people on limited budgets, those who have difficulty manipulating or holding things, that prefer low tech (I'm thinking of older folks with these last few)....I can see them going low enough to appeal to corporations and conventions for putting all their materials on and using them as handouts instead of packets or bulky notebooks....alot use DVDs for this now, just to save on paper and distribution costs. For these needs, tablet functionality isnt needed and low price would be motivating.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Victoria J said:


> What I think isn't going to last are physical books. I'm thinking within 20 years they may become a luxury or niche item because of the financial and environmental costs of producing them.


I can see mass market paperbacks going away (or severely diminishing) but I think paper books in general will stick round.

1. They're simply superior to e-books for some purposes. i.e. cookbooks, coffee table books, reference books etc. Also for textbooks IMO since it's much easier to highlight paper. Basically anything that one needs to flip around in rather than read linearly one page forward at a time is better in paper than e-book form IMO.

2. Durability. We have paper records dating back hundreds (and even thousands in some cases) of years. I'm more skeptical that electronic files can be maintained over that kind of long haul as I could see them getting wiped out in wars with EMP attacks or just left behind as technology changes etc.

3. The "collector" factor. Some people just like collecting physical products and displaying them on shelves. That's why CDs still sell even though most people listen to mp3s these days. I still buy CDs even though I mainly just rip them to MP3s and seldom touch the CD.

That said, some of this is probably generational. Kids who grew up with MP3s probably don't have any affinity for CDs like I do, and people who grow up with e-books may be less resistant to using them for reference purposes etc. than someone like me.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

QuantumIguana said:


> Give me a tablet that has the low cost, light weight, low power consumption and readability of an e-ink e-reader, and I'm in there. I could go camping away from electricity, and my Kindle would work just fine. With a tablet, I would need to recharge.


Another good example of how everyone has different needs in their gadget and thus why there's plenty of room in the market for all types of gadgets.

I'm a city yuppy so I can't recall the last time I spent a night away from electricity. So as long as my gadgets last long enough to only need charged every night or two, I'm good to go.



> Smart phones haven't eliminated "dumb" phones. My phone just makes calls, it's all I need. There are enough people like me to make the market for "dumb" phones viable.


That said, "dumb" phones are becoming more of a niche. At least with verizon. I've been out of contract since early spring and haven't upgraded my phone as I don't want to pay for a smart phone data plan, and haven't been able to find a dumb phone I like any better than my 2 year old LG Voyager.

Though I guess I don't want a pure dumb phone as I do want a decent camera and a qwerty keyboard (or good touch screen keyboard) for texting. So I guess I want something between a smart phone and a dumbphone, and all Verizon has currently is pretty similar to my LG Voyager. So as long as it's battery stays good, I'll just stay on month to month as there's no point in locking myself into a 2 year contract if I can't get a new phone I like a lot better than this one.



9MMare said:


> For me, $114 is alot of money. I see low pricepoint for standalone e-readers as under $50. And I can see uses for them..schools for one thing, for disposibility (taking with them where they might get damaged, less $ loss), people on limited budgets, those who have difficulty manipulating or holding things, that prefer low tech (I'm thinking of older folks with these last few)....I can see them going low enough to appeal to corporations and conventions for putting all their materials on and using them as handouts instead of packets or bulky notebooks....alot use DVDs for this now, just to save on paper and distribution costs. For these needs, tablet functionality isnt needed and low price would be motivating.


Of course everyone's budget is different.

My point was more that the price has dropped from around $400 to just over $100 in just 3 years or so, so prices are really falling rapidly. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Kindle option under $100 by this holiday season. So your idea of $50 or so e-readers probably isn't more than a year or two off.


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## kindlegrl81 (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm probably in the minority but as much as I love my iPad, if I had give up either my iPad or my Kindle, the iPad would be out the door.  I refuse to read on an lcd screen and I read at least 3 hours per day. 

Thank goodness I don't have to choose


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

kindlegrl81 said:


> I'm probably in the minority but as much as I love my iPad, if I had give up either my iPad or my Kindle, the iPad would be out the door. I refuse to read on an lcd screen and I read at least 3 hours per day.
> 
> Thank goodness I don't have to choose


Agree with being happy I don't have to choose! It would be a tough decision. If I _had_ to get rid of one I'd probably ditch the Kindle I guess. I don't read nearly as much as you on the Kindle--usually just 30-60 minutes a night before going to sleep.

The iPad gets more usage than that since I'm reading newspapers, playing games like Words with Friends, checking e-mail, reading PDFs for work etc. on it.

But I love having both, as while I don't mind reading on the iPad that much (and have read some library e-books on it), I do prefer reading novels on the Kindle.


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## Larry Marshall (Jan 2, 2011)

9MMare said:


> _Unless it's at a very cheap pricepoint,_ there really will be little demand for standalone e-readers, probably just in the next yr or 2. Has nothing to do with personal prejudices against devices.


Possibly the survey of iPad owners was in error when they asked them if they owned a Kindle or planned to buy one. 40% already owned one and 23% said they were going to buy one. Go figure...

Truth is, if you get a tablet too small it ceases to be useful as a tablet. When it's "just right" it's too big to carry around (most iPad owners don't carry them with them according to that same survey). And just as some were saying that the iPad was going to be the death of laptops (it hasn't been by any stretch of imagination), the eReader concept isn't threatened by tablets either. The debate about this, however, will live on forever.

Cheers --- Larry


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, the only thing tablets have largely killed off are netbooks.

People who have to work on the road still need a laptop, and home users mostly need either a laptop/desktop for their computing needs as well.  

Netbooks tablets can mostly replace since those were things people bought to supplement their existing laptop/desktop.  I can't see much need to have a laptop/desktop, a tablet and a netbook.

Thus even the main netbook companies like Asus are scaling back on that front and focusing on tablets now.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Larry Marshall said:


> Possibly the survey of iPad owners was in error when they asked them if they owned a Kindle or planned to buy one. 40% already owned one and 23% said they were going to buy one. Go figure...
> 
> Truth is, if you get a tablet too small it ceases to be useful as a tablet. When it's "just right" it's too big to carry around (most iPad owners don't carry them with them according to that same survey). And just as some were saying that the iPad was going to be the death of laptops (it hasn't been by any stretch of imagination), the eReader concept isn't threatened by tablets either. The debate about this, however, will live on forever.
> 
> Cheers --- Larry


If you read the rest of my post, it was about the same or better e-Reader technology being offered at same pricing in a wider variety of tablets....big, small, light, heavy, it will all come down to current or lower e-Reader prices and the advantages of just a standalone e-Reader will have diminished considerably. In other words, I'll get everything I want in the next year most likely! LOL


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

As an aside, the HTC Flyer I saw last week is...for me...the perfect size already. 7"x5", about same size as K, only slightly heavier, and more sturdy (which I think the K needs to be to be more mobile to really fit into my life).

I even liked the e-Reader, backlit tho it was...really cool, 'page turning' image with a finger swipe.

And the Android virtual keyboard, with and without Swype, is completely adequate size-wise for easy typing for all but my intense work needs.

With improvements to memory and a few other things, I'll be ready for something like this...and it for me...sometime next yr most likely.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

Remember, Steve Jobs has already declared that nobody reads books anymore.  So, I don't see what we all are doing here.  

The future will bring what it brings, but my guess is that we will all find some technology we are comfortable and happy with along the way.  Well, unless computer hackers bring down all 3 of the Country's electrical grids, plunging us into a new Stone Age, killing probably 90% of the population . . . . 

Elaine 
Norman, OK


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

With increasing technology for ereaders and tablets, (not to mention better pricing) I can see ebooks really exploding outwards as paper based book are phased out due to environmental concerns.

With independent authors and cheaper prices for ebooks, it is an exciting time for readers and writers.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

9MMare said:


> As an aside, the HTC Flyer I saw last week is...for me...the perfect size already. 7"x5", about same size as K, only slightly heavier, and more sturdy (which I think the K needs to be to be more mobile to really fit into my life).


Yeah, there's clearly a market for several different sizes of tablets.

You want a small one, and I'd really love one with a screen an inch or so bigger than my iPad 2 as I still struggle with some documents like pdfs of 8.5x11" docs that have 2 or 3 columns of text and small font. Lots of zooming and scrolling around in those on a 9.7" screen.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

One of the main advantages and benefits of the Kindle is the e-ink screen that makes it possible to read for so long without eyestrain - a real boon for a large part of the population. So until you can get a tablet that's a colour touchscreen, vibrant enough (and fast enough) to show video on, with a battery that can last for a couple of weeks and yet is still e-ink and not backlit, there is always going to be a place for Kindle type dedicated e-readers.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

9MMare said:


> _Unless it's at a very cheap pricepoint,_ there really will be little demand for standalone e-readers, probably just in the next yr or 2. Has nothing to do with personal prejudices against devices.
> 
> Just sayin'


Not until they can provide the same light weight, the same battery life, the e-ink AND a decent price point.

Until they do that, there is no way they don't fill separate and only somewhat overlapping niches.

By the way, the main use for the tablet in our family--a babysitter.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Linjeakel said:


> One of the main advantages and benefits of the Kindle is the e-ink screen that makes it possible to read for so long without eyestrain - a real boon for a large part of the population. So until you can get a tablet that's a colour touchscreen, vibrant enough (and fast enough) to show video on, with a battery that can last for a couple of weeks and yet is still e-ink and not backlit, there is always going to be a place for Kindle type dedicated e-readers.


Again, what will come out are tablets with Mirasol type screens that do LCD and a non-back lit reading mode (but not e-ink).

But I still think there will be a market for cheap, dedicated readers even when those are out. Tablets will always cost more due to the screen tech and needing more power and storage space etc., and there's a large niche of bookworms out there who just want a simple device to do nothing but read on. Battery life will also be an issue as a multipurpose tablet is never going to match battery life of a simple dedicated e-ink reader due to the screen tech and needing more processing power etc.

So companies will keep making cheap, dedicated readers to make money off that niche even when tablets improve as e-readers and continue to thrive in the mainstream IMO.

I just don't see it as some zero sum end game where only e-readers or tablets can exist. Tablets will become the more dominate/mainstream devices. But there's no reason companies like Amazon can't keep making money off avid readers with pure, dedicated reader devices that cost $100 or less going forward.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

When TV's were first invented they only came in black and white.

Then color was introduced but -- WoW! -- they looked great but cost a lot more.  Many people didn't see the extra cost as worth it.

Then the price of color started coming down. . . .as did the price of B&W, but pretty soon color wasn't really that much more expensive than B&W and the quality was being improved all the time -- where as the the quality of B&W sets pretty much stayed the same.

THEN. . . .they stopped making B&W all together. . . .it just wasn't cost effective to produce and there wasn't any demand.  (My parents had a good friend who was totally color blind and I remember him talking about getting a great deal on one of the last B&W sets produced -- I think the store sold it at a loss -- because no one else wanted it. )

Anyway. . . . . my point is that I'd guess the same thing will probably happen with e-readers. . . . .


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

Erica Sloane said:


> He laughed and said they were useless. His point was that you can read books on any other tablet, so why would you want a black-and-white one that can't do much on the Internet? I told him I do a LOT of reading and I read ebooks almost exclusively now, and my Kindle is fabulous.


Once again I'd have to point out that the Kindle, Nook, etc are not tablets and should not be compared to one. They do what they were designed to do and IMHO, do it well. Now if he'd said you can read books on any other device, he'd have a point.

I'd have to agree with other posters that size matters. I can easily tote my Kindle and/or Nook around. My husband carries his iPad in his laptop bag, and it fits well, but what if he wasn't taking the laptop? When the iPad first came out, I thought it was huge. And it is large, but I can't imagine doing the same things I use it for now on a smaller screen.


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## boquet (Jul 24, 2011)

I think some people still want simple things, which don't include features that they wouldn't used.

For example, some people still want basic phones just for calling and texting. I would never have use for a tablet since I have a laptop and an iPaq (which is never used). An ereader would be simpler than an iPad and would do what I need.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Not until they can provide the same light weight, the same battery life, the e-ink AND a decent price point.
> 
> Until they do that, there is no way they don't fill separate and only somewhat overlapping niches.


They are just about there now...like the one I described above. Battery life, not yet, nor price....but give them a yr or 2.

And IMO, unless you wrap it up in bulkier, heavier covers, the Kindle is too fragile for a good mobile device.


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## Bigal-sa (Mar 27, 2010)

9MMare said:


> And IMO, unless you wrap it up in bulkier, heavier covers, the Kindle is too fragile for a good mobile device.


...and a tablet is less fragile?



mooshie78 said:


> Yeah, the only thing tablets have largely killed off are netbooks.
> 
> People who have to work on the road still need a laptop, and home users mostly need either a laptop/desktop for their computing needs as well.
> 
> ...


I agree about not needing a tablet and a netbook, but I can't see myself dumping my netbook for a tablet. I can choose OS and apps, and I have a *usable* keyboard without carting around (or paying for) extra stuff.

Did I mention price difference?

I'm very happy with my combo of Kindle and netbook for mobile needs.


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## Casper Parks (May 1, 2011)

I'd have to agree, that sales person had his/her head in the sand...


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## laurie_lu (May 10, 2010)

That person sounded exactly like the postal worker behind the counter at my post office.  I was dropping off my Kindle to ship off to the US Troops donation center.  The postal man didn't know what a Kindle was and when told him.  He said, "well that seems silly when you can get a bunch of paper books for free to send".

I own a Kindle, Netbook, & iPad also.  I find I am not using the Netbook any longer.  It's collecting dust.  The screen is so darn small and uncomfortable on my eyes.  I'm considering selling it once I wipe the drive clean.


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## Tess St John (Feb 1, 2011)

I didn't see that Office episode...I'm off to find it!


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

It's really just apples and oranges.  Why do people insist on debating on whether one is better than the other?  I like being able to read comfortably, and until a display comes along which gives me the best of both worlds, which I think won't happen for some time, I'll stay with my Kindle.  I have only seen one backlit LCD device which I can read on comfortably, and that is the Nook Color.  I don't know what they did differently, but it is the best thing going right now.

Gene


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Bigal-sa said:


> I agree about not needing a tablet and a netbook, but I can't see myself dumping my netbook for a tablet. I can choose OS and apps, and I have a *usable* keyboard without carting around (or paying for) extra stuff.
> 
> Did I mention price difference?
> 
> I'm very happy with my combo of Kindle and netbook for mobile needs.


Yep, if you need a keyboard a netbook is still the way to go....at least if you don't have a laptop. I have my own desktop, and work provides me with a laptop for personal use as well. So I was covered on that front and didn't see a need for a netbook since I don't mind taking the laptop for when I need a keyboard or pc software.

So the tablet covers my net surfing and e-mail checking on the go needs, and for e-reading things that I think stink on my Kindle like comics, newspapers, magazines, pdfs of large documents etc.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

mooshie78 said:


> Again, what will come out are tablets with Mirasol type screens that do LCD and a non-back lit reading mode (but not e-ink).
> 
> But I still think there will be a market for cheap, dedicated readers even when those are out. Tablets will always cost more due to the screen tech and needing more power and storage space etc., and there's a large niche of bookworms out there who just want a simple device to do nothing but read on. Battery life will also be an issue as a multipurpose tablet is never going to match battery life of a simple dedicated e-ink reader due to the screen tech and needing more processing power etc.


Actually, Mirasol has comparable battery usasge to a Kindle, not a tablet. So if a Mirasol tablet came out, it would be the way to go. Long battery life, color, easily read in direct sunlight, and I read somewhere about built in sidelights for reading in the dark. If they can get the video refresh rates to produce good results, it would be the perfect blend of tablet and ereader. However, I think I'd still need a netbook to type on. I write my books on my netbook, and can't imagine doing that on any kind of tablet screen. I suppose I could get a seperate keyboard and something to prop the tablet up, but that makes it less portable.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Actually, Mirasol has comparable battery usasge to a Kindle, not a tablet. So if a Mirasol tablet came out, it would be the way to go. Long battery life, color, easily read in direct sunlight, and I read somewhere about built in sidelights for reading in the dark. If they can get the video refresh rates to produce good results, it would be the perfect blend of tablet and ereader.


I stand corrected then...and less interested in Mirasol if true.

Non-backlit screens look terrible for color things like video. And for a tablet I'd use the LCD much more than the non-backlit reading mode as I do things like surf the net, play games, read color documents etc. on my iPad a ton more than a read pure text on it or my Kindle. So I really I like having it backlit LCD screen so the colors really pop.

So what I was wanting--and though Mirasol was--was a backlit lcd that had a mode where the backlights turn off when you switch to an e-ink like mode for reading.

Essentially, I want a tablet that has an LCD mode as good or better than the iPad, and a reading mode comparable to e-ink. Otherwise I'll just stick with owning a separate LCD tablet like the iPad and e-ink reader like the Kindle as I don't want to compromise on the quality of either screen.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Bigal-sa said:


> ...and a tablet is less fragile?


Oh yes, the ones I've used and the ones I played with at Best Buy *all* have more substantial cases than a K. Even the Nooks. And there are at least 2 threads here about K screens and cases cracking easily. I think the tablet and smartphone glass screens are thicker/tougher as well...probably because they are touchscreen.

And again, price will come way down on the tablets, just like for everything else. Give it a yr or 2....and then I'll predict a price point for pure e-Readers at under $50.


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## CoffeeCat (Sep 13, 2010)

Me and My Kindle said:


> That reminds me of the episode of _The Office_ where Daryl walks into a bookstore, and the nice lady behind the counter asks if he'd like to try an ereader.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love The Office! Haven't seen this episode yet but thanks for sharing the clip.

We have an iPad2 and I have my K3. I love the iPad for many things, but reading is not one of them. Thanks for sharing the story.


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## MatrixOutsider (Nov 28, 2010)

The ebook will eventually be replaced by a multifunction device. These devices always overtake and replace single function devices. Remember the cellphone, the PDA, the digital camera, the portable gps device, and the mp3 player? They are now replaced by the smartphone. Now, if they could only build a smartphone with a flexible and foldable screen...


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

MatrixOutsider said:


> The ebook will eventually be replaced by a multifunction device. These devices always overtake and replace single function devices. Remember the cellphone, the PDA, the digital camera, the portable gps device, and the mp3 player? They are now replaced by the smartphone. Now, if they could only build a smartphone with a flexible and foldable screen...


Not a great example as you can still buy digital cameras, portable gps devices, mp3 players (and even portable cd players) etc. Smart phones might be more popular, but the dedicated devices are still available and still selling.

I think it will be the same with e-readers. Tablets will be more popular in the near future, but there will still be companies like Amazon making dedicated readers for those who want them.


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## hakimast (Jul 23, 2011)

Ebook or ereading is the future.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

mooshie78 said:


> Not a great example as you can still buy digital cameras, portable gps devices, mp3 players (and even portable cd players) etc. Smart phones might be more popular, but the dedicated devices are still available and still selling.
> 
> I think it will be the same with e-readers. Tablets will be more popular in the near future, but there will still be companies like Amazon making dedicated readers for those who want them.


Agreed, there is plenty of room in the market for single and multi-function devices. The single-function device doesn't show any signs of going away. If you're serious about your photography, a stand-along digital camera probably is the best option. This isn't Highlander, "There can be only one" is not how things work. Single function devices quite often do their task better than jack of all trades devices do.


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## Michael Parker (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm 70 years old and have seen a lot of changes over the years. I never imagined the changes I would see in my profession as a maintenance technician, but found that growing with the technology helped a great deal, even if I did moan about it at times. To see a book read on a screen is complete anathema to me. I'm a book man, always have been and always will be, but I am also a pragmatist and understand that today's world belongs to the younger people. They are happy with their Smartphones, iPads, iPhones, X-boxes and so ad infinitum, and if they want their entertainment brought direct to their doorstep so to speak, whether it's on a train, a bus, a plane or in the high street, well, that's where the future lies. Do I own a Kindle? Yes. Why? Because my sons bought it for me as a gift for my 70th. birthday. Do I like my Kindle? It's OK, but I'd sooner have a book. I think I've only read maybe one or two books on my Kindle that are formatted correctly. Who's fault is that? It's the author's fault. Why do I say that? Because I have two of my seven novels on Kindle and had to pull one because the formatting had been messed up in the conversion to Kindle. This had been done by somebody else, but in the end it was down to me to 'Proofread' it before it went to Createspace. I re-wrote the whole thing again using html codes, and Mobipocket, finally getting it right. So in my view, the only thing that isn't going to last is the standard that has been set for years by mainstream publishing houses. We have to be careful now that we don't associate Kindle and other e-readers with trash editing, because that's what we appear to be getting. E-readers are the future, but at the expense, possibly of the English language. And it's probably the same the world over.


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## Shetlander (Mar 10, 2009)

Michael Parker said:


> So in my view, the only thing that isn't going to last is the standard that has been set for years by mainstream publishing houses. We have to be careful now that we don't associate Kindle and other e-readers with trash editing, because that's what we appear to be getting. E-readers are the future, but at the expense, possibly of the English language.


I don't think it is just e-readers. I almost never read paper books any more, but when I did, I saw all kinds of typos and a shocking lack of editing in those as well. And these were mainstream publishing houses that were putting out poorly edited books.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

Right...and television would never catch one...rock and roll was just a fad...the internet would never be in every home...space travel was a fantasy...no one would ever be able to do a heart transplant...personal computers were never going to catch on...the list of people like this mook goes on and on and on and on.


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## originalgrissel (Mar 5, 2010)

MatrixOutsider said:


> The ebook will eventually be replaced by a multifunction device. These devices always overtake and replace single function devices. Remember the cellphone, the PDA, the digital camera, the portable gps device, and the mp3 player? They are now replaced by the smartphone. Now, if they could only build a smartphone with a flexible and foldable screen...


Another point regarding the combining of all those elements into a single device is that while a stand alone camera takes a great picture & gives you a great deal of control over how the picture actually turns out, because you can manually make adjustments to the camera's settings, the quality of photos taken with the typical camera on a cell phone is not nearly as good as those taken with a stand alone device. Same, applies to playing MP3s on your phone- the phone isn't primarily designed for playing music and does an adequate job, but the quality of playback is generally not as good as what you get from a dedicated device that was designed to play music. It's convenience over quality in a lot of cases. I'd rather have a dedicated camera that takes great pictures than deal with the one in my phone that does an "ok job" and the same applies to e-readers for me. A stand alone device that does exactly what it was designed to do, and does it very well, is always going to be far superior in my opinion, than a device with multiple functions that does most of them ok.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

originalgrissel said:


> A stand alone device that does exactly what it was designed to do, and does it very well, is always going to be far superior in my opinion, than a device with multiple functions that does most of them ok.


I agree. Now, maybe "o.k." is all you need. And if that's the case go for convenience and, possibly, a better price. But if "superior" is what you want or need, you'll probably only be truly satisfied with a dedicated device that satisfies your requirements.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

Ya know, I think the guy was right. The ebook thing isn't going to last. It just isn't.

200 years from now, you'll stick your index finger into a port and download it all right into your brain and you won't need a book in any form. It'll just be THERE.

Srsly.

I'll even bet on it.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

balaspa said:


> Right...and television would never catch one...rock and roll was just a fad...the internet would never be in every home...space travel was a fantasy...no one would ever be able to do a heart transplant...personal computers were never going to catch on...the list of people like this mook goes on and on and on and on.


And the other side of this, many people thought that TV would make radio obsolete. If of course did not - but radio changed. The radio dramas were mostly replaced by TV shows. But radio transformed to be about music, news, talk and sports. People thought that the VCR and the DVD would kill movie theatres. But they are still going strong. Some people prefer their own couch, others like to get out of the house and see a movie on the big screen. I went to see Harry Potter last night in an old theater from the 1920's, that was restored to its former glory.

Some new technology does replace older technology. The car replaced the horse for transportation. Other technology has us doing totally new things, like the internet. It's an expansion of communication rather than replacing a mode of communication. We may send less paper letters, but we send a lot more e-mail. Those who thought computers wouldn't catch on couldn't imagine how much computers would change, how much cheaper and more powerful they would become.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

I love my single-use devices! 

Oh, sure, I'd like a TV screen on my toaster and it would be great if I could use my coffee grinder as a jackhammer, but other than that, I like tools that do one job and do it well.

Jan

(Forgot to add that I wish my blender worked as a jet pack, but I guess everybody wants that.)


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## meowzart (Mar 29, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> I love my single-use devices!
> 
> Oh, sure, I'd like a TV screen on my toaster and it would be great if I could use my coffee grinder as a jackhammer, but other than that, I like tools that do one job and do it well.
> 
> ...


lol


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## meowzart (Mar 29, 2011)

Well the only thing books are good for is reading...or holding a door open so why do we need a device that does more than reading?


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

For me, I like the fact that the Kindle is primarily a reader.  I don't download games and notepads and stuff to it.  It is my portable library.  Right now, I have no use for a tablet, either.  If I got one, I would have to buy the tablet plus a keyboard and if I am buying a screen and a keyboard, for the same amount I can get a new laptop!  I am not a huge fan of touch screens.  Even my phone has a slide out keyboard.  So, I like the Kindle just the way it is and I have a feeling there will be a lot of us who feel the same way for a long time.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Jan Strnad said:


> I love my single-use devices!
> 
> Oh, sure, I'd like a TV screen on my toaster and it would be great if I could use my coffee grinder as a jackhammer, but other than that, I like tools that do one job and do it well.
> 
> Jan


For me it's must a matter of how much I need portability/convenience for a given task, and how much a need a top quality tool/device for that task.

Things I need with me on the go I like collapsed into an all in one device as it's a pain in the butt to carry a bunch of different gadgets around. But other things I want a single purpose device as I want the best tool for that particular job.

And it's not an either/or situation. I love having a phone that takes ok pictures since I always have it with me and will never carry a digital camera everywhere I go. But that doesn't mean I can't own a digital camera to use when on vacation and other occasions where I want better quality photos.

Similarly, just because I have a tablet to do a bunch of things (including e-reading) on the go doesn't mean I can't keep my Kindle for novel reading at home.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Single-purpose devices have their uses as do multi-purpose devices.  I have both.  In my line of work, I could never fly from Dallas to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia with only a tablet or a smart phone.  It would lose it's charge long before I get there.  when I travel, I have my mp3 player and my kindle in my carry-on as well as my smartphones and my tablet and my laptop - my satchel is pretty much a solid mass of electronics with a box of Dots and perhaps some Fiber One bars.  I don't see this sort of need going away.

IMO, multi-purpose devices like tablets won't really kill off all other devices until they can replace laptops and keep their charge for a few days ...


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## jbcohen (Jul 29, 2011)

I have two readers: a Blackberry and a Kindle.  There are technological problems associated with multiple use devices, such as the blackberry, they tend to run out of battery charge real fast.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

jbcohen said:


> I have two readers: a Blackberry and a Kindle. There are technological problems associated with multiple use devices, such as the blackberry, they tend to run out of battery charge real fast.


Leaving the eInk/LCD issue aside, charge duration is a function of use. Anytime you do more on a device, you are going to use the battery more. It's not a tech problem _per se_, it's a use problem.

Mike


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yep.  I had no problem with my iPad battery when I traveled to Asia (around 24 hours each way counting layovers).  10 hours is a long time, I'm not going to use any gadget that much on any flight as I get tired and switch to something else or watch the inflight movies or go to sleep etc.  But others may well use it more and have problems with battery life, so it's definitely a matter of each individuals use and needs.


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## NightGoat (Feb 2, 2011)

meowzart said:


> Well the only thing books are good for is reading...or holding a door open so why do we need a device that does more than reading?


LOL

Last week I did some computer upgrades in an office with an extensive library of law books. The restrooms were outside a security door. In lieu of giving us a passkey, the office contact told us to use one of the books to prop the door open since no one used those books anymore... everything is on their computers.

It made me wonder if someday, someone will be propping that door open with a computer when computers are replaced by some other medium.


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## soyfrank (Feb 2, 2011)

What about religious prayer books? For some reason, I just can't see these types of books as eBooks right now -- but who knows?


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## Lenc324 (Feb 16, 2011)

I have an iPad but only use my kindle for reading.  Much easier on the eyes and easier to hold.


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## MNniceHotelier (Aug 1, 2011)

I would have told him to find a new job!  Besides, what does this guy know he sells electronics for a living  (not to bash him directly but lets face it any high school kid can get a job selling electronics)


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## jbcohen (Jul 29, 2011)

I have been in contact with pals of many different faiths and we talk about non-dogma things such as electronic books.  I have not asked my christian friends but I would find it hard to believe that Catholics haven't digitized their books as yet 
(experience has taught me that they tend to be early adopters of technology).  My pals tell me that some protestant denominations are often slower to upgrade to modern technology, I would imagine that some Methodist groups have started to digitize their books.  Another christian group, that I like to call the Holly Rollers, these are the ones that are constantly going from door to door to convert the heathen, their are holly rollers of all the christian groups, and I would imagine that they have digitized everything including a few of their church priests (I am joking here).  I know Muslim and Jewish groups have digitized their books as well.  I have been offered digital versions of the Koran and the Jewish Scriptures so I know this has been done already.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

soyfrank said:


> What about religious prayer books? For some reason, I just can't see these types of books as eBooks right now -- but who knows?


At "Mobile Gabriel" you can get the monthly readings for Mass formatted for Kindle and a variety or smartphone reader apps. I use it instead of the pew books. . .

I've not found the order of Mass available except as a PDF, but it's basically all text so easily convertible.

The only Catholic Bible I've found is the Douay-Rheims. -- Just looked again as I hadn't in a while and the New American Bible Revised Edition (March 2011) is now available for Kindle:



Sorry about the short tangent. . . . I think ebooks are here to stay.  I don't think paper's going anywhere soon either, though.


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## jbcohen (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm dating myself now but I can recall in the early days of PCs, in the 1980s a lot of doubters said the same thing about PCs.  "No one will ever want one of these in their homes" they said "they'll be gone tomorrow" others said.  Well the doubters are all gone the PC remains.  There is a significant amount of the population that are like me we want more advanced technology, we are not satisfied with the current state of technology and would be happier if we could live in August 2111.


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## Tara Maya (Nov 4, 2010)

soyfrank said:


> What about religious prayer books? For some reason, I just can't see these types of books as eBooks right now -- but who knows?


I just had an image of pews filled with kindles and a pastor saying, "Please toggle to today's reading."


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Tara Maya said:


> I just had an image of pews filled with kindles and a pastor saying, "Please toggle to today's reading."


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## MNniceHotelier (Aug 1, 2011)

What if, and this is completely theoretical, but what if Kindle was able to somehow be a braille reader.  My mother has gone blind over the past 5 years and has finally become comfortable with her surroundings and braille.  I don't know how they could do it, but wouldn't it be amazing to have a Kindle that also served as a braille reader?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

In order to not derail the conversation about ebooks, I've removed the last couple posts...Brian, I'm sending you a PM.



Tara Maya said:


> I just had an image of pews filled with kindles and a pastor saying, "Please toggle to today's reading."


I can see this...I've looked up Bible verses in church on both my Kindle and my iPad....

Betsy


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

For some reason there are a lot of people who deny change even when it is happening right before their eyes. Even in the 70's, people were buying a lot of home computers. I think it is that many people seem to think that things won't change any more, even if they have previously changed quite a lot. If the PC hadn't advances since the XT, a lot less people would have them in their homes.

As far as a braille display, it could be done. You would have to make a compact braille display, but it could be done. Might not be as small as a Kindle though.


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## John Dorian (Jul 23, 2011)

I would expect, that as the technology progresses, tablets and e-readers will be defined by brand name, not functionality. This because they do indeed share key functionality, and as they both aim to reach each other's markets they will become more and more the same product.


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

I've got both (K3 and a tablet - Samsung 10.1).. Tomorrow morning I'm flying from AZ to MD to visit relatives for a few days. When I was trying to decide what to pack this evening, I was torn between taking my 3lb laptop (I'm working on the first draft of my next novel) and my Kindle or just taking the 1.? lb Tablet. While the tablet doesn't have my primary writing software, it does have QuickOffice, which I believe will be good enough for banging out draft chapters. And it has the Kindle app for reading on the airplane and before I go to bed each night. I'm a little nervous about traveling w/o the laptop since it usually goes everywhere with me, but I'm really intrigued at the prospect of cutting the amount of crap I lug across the country by half. We'll see how well it works. If I thought I'd have more pure reading time, I'd definitely take the Kindle as well.. it is MUCH easier on the eyes.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

kindlegrl81 said:


> I'm probably in the minority but as much as I love my iPad, if I had give up either my iPad or my Kindle, the iPad would be out the door. I refuse to read on an lcd screen and I read at least 3 hours per day.
> 
> Thank goodness I don't have to choose


Me too. I never tire of my kindle and use it every day. Get my news and blogs on it and check it several times a day for updates. It is as indispensable as my phone.


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## Martin Perry (Aug 2, 2011)

Yeah, as both an iPad and Kindle owner, I can't ever imagine picking the former for eBook reading. It's such a strain on your eyes.

I am looking forward to the eventual release of quality colour e-ink screens. There are a few examples floating around but the colours often look washed out - they'll get it right soon enough though.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I wouldn't want to use my iPad as my main e-book reader.  But I've not had any issues reading a few library e-books on it while waiting for that update to come to the Kindle.

It doesn't strain my eyes that much personally.  But I also seldom read for more than 30-60 minutes in any one stretch so that probably makes it less of an issue than for those of you who read for hours and hours on end.


As for traveling, if I'm going to do any work, I take my laptop (and Kindle) as I need my stats software, MS Word (too hard to deal with tables, figures etc. in things like quick office as the formatting gets screwy a lot of the times when going back to MS Word on the PC) etc.  If it's a personal trip with no work, I'll just take my iPad as I don't read much when traveling (other than on the plane) anyway and it can handle my vacation computing needs--looking up stuff online, checking e-mail, reading the news etc.


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## ronvitale (Mar 11, 2011)

I love The Office and reading Darly's quote just made me laugh. When I look back and see how CDs changed the music industry and then mp3s changed the industry again, I don't think it's that much of a reach to say that ebooks are here to stay. And I LOVE my paper books, but that doesn't mean I can't adapt and try new things.

I really thought that I wouldn't like the reading experience on the Kindle, but I was wrong. It's easy on my eyes, light to carry and very convenient. My biggest problem is that my wife and I are sharing one Kindle and that makes things complicated as I'll pull the book I'm reading up on my phone on the way to work in the morning and sometimes the synching doesn't quite work so I have to scroll to where I am. But think about that: How many times have you said something like: "Great, I forgot my book at home!" Now I simply fire up the Kindle app on my phone and I'm good.

With how good the Kindle is (and this is important), Amazon working on putting the Kindle app on Android devices and the iPhone, I see a long, long future for ebooks. And I think that's a good thing.



Me and My Kindle said:


> That reminds me of the episode of _The Office_ where Daryl walks into a bookstore, and the nice lady behind the counter asks if he'd like to try an ereader.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

9MMare said:


> I see a market for these in schools...where they might not want the added distractions provided by multi-functional tablets.


They? ME! I have the attention span of a gnat and don't need extra distractions.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

MNniceHotelier said:


> I would have told him to find a new job! Besides, what does this guy know he sells electronics for a living (not to bash him directly but lets face it any high school kid can get a job selling electronics)


Now, now, is that Minnesota Nice? You and I both know that Minnesota Nice is way more passive-aggressive, and the person can only suspect -- but not know for sure -- that they've been insulted, because the "slam" was blanketed in a thick coat of outward politeness.

"Oh, yah, you like selling gadgets? My son is thinking of getting a job here, but it's his junior year of high school -- not that he couldn't handle it -- but his father has aspirations for him and would prefer that he concentrates on his studies. So ... where are the tablets? That's a nice nice uniform, by the way! Polyester? .... Oh, a blend! Well, it's real nice! Reminds me of the shirts my uncle used to wear back in the seventies. He owned a disco Do you have layaway? ... Real good then."


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## Liam Ireland (Jul 21, 2011)

Ebooks are the future. More and more book stores are going out of business. It's only a matter of time.


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## StephenLivingston (May 10, 2011)

I'm sure that there will still be ebooks around long after that shop assistant has shuffled off this mortal coil.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

I play with the notion of getting a tablet, though I'm not sure I'd use it for much. For computing, I'd use my PC or laptop, for watching movies I'd use my TV/DVD player/Wii for streaming, and for reading I'd use the Kindle (or the nook). The Kindle is lightweight and easy to shift positions with. I can't imagine being able to get cozy in bed with a big, heavy tablet glaring at me.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I find my iPad nearly as easy to curl up with as the Kindle.  It's heavier, but not enough to bother me personally.

I use mine a lot despite having a desktop, a laptop and a K3.  I mainly use it for reading things that aren't well suited to e-ink devices/the small Kindle screen--newspapers, magazines, comics, pdfs of scholarly research articles etc.  But some can't stand reading at all on LCD screens, so that's a "to each, their own" thing.  I prefer e-ink, but reading on the iPad doesn't bother my eyes very much personally.

I also use it for web surfing (anything but forums as I want a real keyboard for that), playing games, accessing my work calendar, checking e-mail when I'm not near the laptop/desktop, taking notes in work meetings and so on.

Tablets are definitely not for everyone, but that's an outline of how mine is useful for me at least.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

balaspa said:


> Right...and television would never catch one...rock and roll was just a fad...the internet would never be in every home...space travel was a fantasy...


Well, space travel is a fantasy (again) at least in America.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

In our house, to use the iPad you have to steal it back from the kids.


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

I spend 16+ hours per day looking at a computer screen. When I read, the last thing I want is a backlit LCD. In contrast (hah!) e-ink is soothing to the eyes.


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## FastPop (Dec 22, 2010)

eBooks are becoming a solid part of our media ecosystem.


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## Brem (Jun 29, 2011)

e-readers will stay, just like mp3 players and other such devices. Everything will be digital in the coming years. I bet we can even start watching movies in theaters while at home one days. That may not be true, but it would be kind of cool.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Brem said:


> e-readers will stay, just like mp3 players and other such devices. Everything will be digital in the coming years. I bet we can even start watching movies in theaters while at home one days. That may not be true, but it would be kind of cool.


I read somewhere a while back that one of the cable or satellite providers was going to start doing that soon. Having currently in the theater movies on Pay Per View for like $20. Pricey for just one person, but if it's two or more it would be the same or cheaper than movie tickets many places.

Personally, I wouldn't use it as I like watching movies on the huge theater screen and don't mind waiting for things to be out to rent for ones I don't go see in the theater. So to me the $20 isn't worth it to see a new movie at home. But I could see it being useful for family films etc. where it's cheaper to do that than buy 4+ tickets and popcorn etc. for people who aren't movie buffs and don't care about the theater experience etc.


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## JeanneB (Aug 31, 2009)

I love my Kindles and my iPad...I hardly ever read a physical book anymore.  But I am finding it so unnerving to see bookstores closing.  I wonder what will happen to the publishing companies, if they will be able to make it publishing only digital copy in the future. We are at a turning point with all this new technology..its exciting and scary at the same time.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about that anytime soon

Look at music.  MP3 sales have been bigger than CD sales for a while now and CDs aren't going away.

A lot of music stores have went out out of business as a result--so it's a bit harder to find somethings locally since the selection at the big box stores is mostly only mainstream stuff.  But you can order anything you want online.

I imagine books will be the same way going forward.  Book stores will close, making some lesser known books harder to find.  But we'll be able to easily order them online from Amazon and other sources.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I don't see the end of bookstores in the foreseeable future. Independent stores that are much more in tune with their local market will be more likely to survive. The market for paper books will be smaller, but still significant enough for the independents to remain in business.

It's similar to music. Independent music stores are doing OK, as far as I have seen, it's the chain music stores that have dried up.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

VKScott said:


> ::shrug:: Heck, _my life_ isn't going to last. But I'll enjoy it while I can.


LOL, I'm reading books now over my Kindle app on my PC. But I'm definitely treating myself to one for a Christmas present. This is after I have considered all the options on the market. I have my laptop for writing novels, skyping, & shopping. I have my cell phone for talking, and I want a Kindle for reading. Here in the bright Florida sunlight, all other screens are just too hard to see. I like how light weight it is and easy to handle. Cell phones are too small to read on. Lap tops, too large, but a Kindle? Just right.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

QuantumIguana said:


> It's similar to music. Independent music stores are doing OK, as far as I have seen, it's the chain music stores that have dried up.


That's true...though it does seem that most of those are doing most of their business selling Vinyl more so than CDs from talking with staff at one of the local indie music stores here. Where as I don't see an equivalent with books. Books are books. There's not an old format equivalent of vinyl to be a novelty. Though maybe selling older, out of print used books could have a similar effect...

Around here,where the local book stores are thriving is in making money off their coffee shops--at least around here. They have a selection of books to fit their crowd, and the coffee shop to keep them coming back (and making money off them even if they don't buy books every visit). They attract the younger, trendy crowd that doesn't want to support chain places like Starbucks or Borders and are doing good business catering to that market.

The big chain stores tried that, but made the mistake of expanding into music and movies etc. and couldn't compete on those as their prices were absurd compared to places like Best Buy, Target, Wal-mart etc. (much less online). Carrying so much merchandise necessitated huge warehouse sized stores with huge rents and that's what really did borders in. B&N is doing a bit better, but they seem to have more small, book only stores around so maybe that's helping them.


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

See the update in the original post.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, the HP touchpad was pretty much always doomed to fail.  Apple and Android have the market cornered now.  There was no chance a third OS like WebOS was going to succeed.

The only possible exception is Microsoft with their forthcoming Windows 8 tablets and slates.  If anyone has the clout to crash the party, it's MS.

Otherwise Apple will continue to dominate the tablet market, and Android will remain the other option on a variety of tablets.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

mooshie78 said:


> That's true...though it does seem that most of those are doing most of their business selling Vinyl more so than CDs from talking with staff at one of the local indie music stores here. Where as I don't see an equivalent with books. Books are books. There's not an old format equivalent of vinyl to be a novelty. Though maybe selling older, out of print used books could have a similar effect...


The equivalent is paper. Just as there are some people who prefer listening to vinyl rather than CD, some people prefer paper books over e-books. The difference is greater between paper and e-books than it is with vinyl and CD. Vinyl and CD are different formats, but you listen to them the same way. Assuming that the vinyl record has no scratches, you might not be able to tell if you are listening to vinyl or CD. But if you're reading a book, it's going to be obvious whether it is paper of an e-book. Paper and e-books offer different experiences. I know there are stores that specialize in vinyl records, but from my experience, that's not the majority of the independent sellers. We have one store the specializes in folk music. Most of their business is in selling instruments, but they also sell a lot of CDs. Then there is the local music scene, and a number of independent stores cater to that market, while the chains ignored it.



> Around here,where the local book stores are thriving is in making money off their coffee shops--at least around here. They have a selection of books to fit their crowd, and the coffee shop to keep them coming back (and making money off them even if they don't buy books every visit). They attract the younger, trendy crowd that doesn't want to support chain places like Starbucks or Borders and are doing good business catering to that market.


Uncle Hugos (a science fiction bookstore in Minneapolis) makes its living on science fiction, no coffee shop. A friend of mine was looking for a book, didn't know the title or the author, and had only a vague description of the plot. I would have thought they wouldn't be able to help him. He had the book in his hands in about 2 minutes. The store doesn't try to be all things to all people, but they know their subject very well. That's one way that independent stores can survive.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Note I said "thriving."  I'm talking local book stores that are making money hand over fist as they are always packed with people having coffee and browsing the shelves.

There's certainly a place for specialty stores like that scifi shop etc.  But those tend to be labor of love stores where the owners make enough to barely get buy and keep doing it because they love that niche and talking to fans of it etc. and are ok living on a small income.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just saying those kind of places aren't what I meant when talking about stores that were thriving.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

jbcohen said:


> I'm dating myself now but I can recall in the early days of PCs, in the 1980s a lot of doubters said the same thing about PCs. "No one will ever want one of these in their homes" they said "they'll be gone tomorrow" others said. Well the doubters are all gone the PC remains. There is a significant amount of the population that are like me we want more advanced technology, we are not satisfied with the current state of technology and would be happier if we could live in August 2111.


Heck, I said that myself back in the 80's - to my husband when he started to talk about wanting a computer (Commodore 64, I do believe it was). "Why in the world would we want one of those We're a family, not a business!" (I said the same thing about microwave ovens, VCRs, and cell phones - why would we need _*that*_?) Now sitting here on my couch I can scan the room and see an iMac, 2 laptops, 2 iPads, 2 iPhones, a Kindle, a Nook, and my old netbook that my daughter pulled out to use because she wanted to go to a site that required Internet Explorer. Not to mention the satellite dish receiver - wasn't sure we "needed" satellite either - the AppleTV, the BluRay player......my how times have changed!

As far as "ebooks" not lasting - I think eBooks are here to stay. eReaders, on the other hand, will continue to evolve and change, and what we see as cutting edge now we'll scoff at in 20 years or so. Back in college in the 70's, going with my husband to the computer that took up an entire ROOM, I couldn't imagine we'd have that spiffy little Commodore 64 we had on our desk in the 80's. In the 90's when my husband had to carry around a brick of a cell phone for work, we couldn't imagine the Razr phone we'd have 200? - and when that Razr phone was cutting edge we couldn't imaginen the iPhones we have now. So there's no telling what form eReading will take in another 5 years or so. But it'll be fun to watch it unfold!


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I don't know anything about these independent bookstores making money hand over fist. I haven't audited the local independent bookstores and music stores, so I don't know their financial details, but they don't seem any different than any other business. They continue to employ people and continue to stay open, do they must be doing ok. Most people would call that thriving.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

There was an article in yesterday's Washington Post about local independent bookstores and the cool things they're doing to stay in business.  They profiled several who are doing quite well by having local authors in for signings, hosting well publicized readings and book clubs, and other stuff.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

QuantumIguana said:


> I don't know anything about these independent bookstores making money hand over fist. I haven't audited the local independent bookstores and music stores, so I don't know their financial details, but they don't seem any different than any other business. They continue to employ people and continue to stay open, do they must be doing ok. Most people would call that thriving.


Just depends on your standard of living I guess. Most small business owners are upper lower class to lower middle class and barely getting buy each month. I don't call that thriving, that's just surviving (for both the store and the owner).

The ones that are thriving are the ones that area always busy, not the ones that just sell a few books a day to fans of a certain niche. The ones doing very well financially are the ones that always have people in them spending money on books, coffee etc. That's all I'm saying by "thriving."


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Again, neither of us has audited their books. The important thing isn't how much money they make, but the existence of the stores. If bookstores are still in business that's all that really matters to anyone besides a owner of a bookstore. The stores that I am describing are doing pretty well, the owners aren't just barely surviving.


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## BarbraAnnino (Jan 27, 2011)

VKScott said:


> ::shrug:: Heck, _my life_ isn't going to last. But I'll enjoy it while I can.


Love this response!


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