# Love stories with Adultery?



## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

This question is more for those who are women as they tend to be the biggest readers of romance, erotica and contemp love stories

Are you less inclined to buy a book if you KNOW ahead of time that its going to be 2 married couples who end up cheating? 

Also would you want to know that ahead of time?

I'm just wondering where and how cheating is seen in terms of readers. Being as it happens MORE times in real life than the classic love story.

Is it a classic no, no you don't write about that if you want to sell books. lol

Or if you do, make sure they have a really crappy partner to justify it?


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## Dina (May 24, 2013)

If I am buying your typical genre romance, historical or contemporary, I don't want adultery. I am buying because I know what I'm getting into, generally. I want the traditional courtship and HEA, even if the husband of the heroine is a horrid person. I want the fantasy, not the reality. That said, some of my favorite genre romances have flirted with adultery (married but didn't know it, in a committed romance with someone else, etc.) -- Judith McNaught's Paradise, Theresa Medeiros's and others that were written skillfully. Although not romance genre technically, Claire committed adultery in Outlander. Didn't faze me. 

If I'm picking up a genre erotic romance - a Megan Hart, for instance - then adultery doesn't bother me. I expect it. 

And non-genre romance, anything goes. I just want well-written characters. 

But romance is so varied now, and this is just my preference for buying a romance novel. It'll be interesting to hear other reader opinions on this.


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## Claudia King (Oct 27, 2012)

I think you'd pretty much have to go with the "horrible jerk partner" approach to make it work as a conventional romance. It's never something I've written about directly, but I've heard a lot of bad things about reader responses to adulterous characters in romance novels. Having said that, though, it's usually related to when the hero/heroine cheat on each other, rather than anyone else.

I'm no expert on the subject, but it's definitely shaky territory, and you need to be careful about how you handle it. It's important to remember that the fantasy of a romance novel generally *is* the classic love story rather than something grounded in hard reality.
As Dina mentioned; readers like to know what they're getting, moreso with romance than any other genre.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

I hate books with that stuff in it.  I would not buy if I thought it was in there.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

What people SAY they want to read and what people ACTUALLY read are a lot of times very different things . . . 
for example: Lady Chatterley's Lover, The End of the Affair, The Once and Future King  . . . all too old?  
Well, The Bridges of Madison County made how much money?


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

If you're going to have adultery in your book, where either the man or woman cheat on each other, do NOT classify it as a romance. At all. Ever.


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't even like love triangles.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

What about if the heroine's on the run from her abusive husband or something like that? Does that make a difference? I don't suppose you could technically call that adultery as the marriage is over from her point of view.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

I wish more authors had the courage (and insight) to explore it--as you say, it happens frequently. So why can't it be written about? But I think unless you were writing literary fiction, you'd be drawn and quartered for it. Or you could try the Jane Eyre approach; people seem to be able to tolerate something like that. But you need some sort of fantastical excuse/justification. If you write anything less, you'll get "Shooting's too good for him/her."

I guess to me it's like murder in a mystery--reading about it doesn't mean that it's contagious and I'm going to catch it. I've seen some vicious reviews though that focused on only the infidelity. When readers hate that, they really, really hate it.


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## Dina (May 24, 2013)

dkgould said:


> What people SAY they want to read and what people ACTUALLY read are a lot of times very different things . . .
> for example: Lady Chatterley's Lover, The End of the Affair, The Once and Future King . . . all too old?
> Well, The Bridges of Madison County made how much money?


Absolutely, but none of these that you mentioned, are genre romance. They may be romances but they are not the traditionally defined romance novel. For instance if you pick up a Nora Roberts, Jude Devereaux or Eloisa James romance, you want courtship and a happy ending, not The Bridges of Madison County. That's an entirely different breed.

And now I have to go read The Once and Future King again. I love that book.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

dkgould said:


> What people SAY they want to read and what people ACTUALLY read are a lot of times very different things . . .
> for example: Lady Chatterley's Lover, The End of the Affair, The Once and Future King . . . all too old?
> Well, The Bridges of Madison County made how much money?


Yes you raise a good point

What they SAY they won't read and what they actually BUY but don't tell people are different lol. I guess that's why it's called cheating because there is a level of secrecy involved.

Funny thing is someone would probably buy it and then after feel so guilt ridden for reading it, they would refund the whole whopping 99 cents LOL and then give a bad review saying its wrong lOL. Even though they bought it. IRONY!


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Vivi_Anna said:


> If you're going to have adultery in your book, where either the man or woman cheat on each other, do NOT classify it as a romance. At all. Ever.


What would you class it as then?

Wasn't bridge of madison county a romance in some way?


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Romance and cheating do not go together.

Erotica and cheating, could do.

Women's fiction/contemporary fiction and cheating often do.

Romance is about idealism and happy ever afters.  If the hero or heroine cheat on someone else, then the reader doesn't trust them to be true to the person they wind up with.  If they cheat on each other, it's just not a romance unless you pull some seriously funky plot & character justification out of the hat.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

1001nightspress said:


> I wish more authors had the courage (and insight) to explore it--as you say, it happens frequently. So why can't it be written about? But I think unless you were writing literary fiction, you'd be drawn and quartered for it. Or you could try the Jane Eyre approach; people seem to be able to tolerate something like that. But you need some sort of fantastical excuse/justification. If you write anything less, you'll get "Shooting's too good for him/her."
> 
> I guess to me it's like murder in a mystery--reading about it doesn't mean that it's contagious and I'm going to catch it. I've seen some vicious reviews though that focused on only the infidelity. When readers hate that, they really, really hate it.


Yes i agree i wish authors would explore it more.

I mean let's face it. Some of the best novels are rooted in reality. Not just fantasy.

Why people would get angry about something that happens to most in this life. I would say is either founded in religious morals or hypocrisy.

So do you think literary category would be best suited for something like that then?


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

hunterone said:


> So do you think literary category would be best suited for something like that then?


Well, depends on the treatment, I suppose. How integral is it to the plot? You could make it the whole plot, of course--witness the Scarlet Letter. But as others have said, that is not classified as a romance. "Once and Future King," of course, has incest too--a no-no for some genres (like erotica) but fine where it is.

Is this a book you've already written, or are going to write? Honestly, I'd just write the book first, and then classify it. The exception would be if you've decided (say, for marketing reasons) that you really want to write a romance. In that case, ixnay on the dulteryhay.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Zelah Meyer said:


> Romance and cheating do not go together.
> 
> Erotica and cheating, could do.
> 
> ...


Ah ok so really it's a matter of CATEGORY and not really, what is right?

i.e romance category = happy ending ( no adultery)
womens fiction = you might get away with it, but more than likely you will be hung
erotica = yes
literary= yes

I wonder if it could land in romance IF the 2 people NEVER commit adultery but are close to it. And eventually their marriages naturally dissolve and they end up together.

I guess that leads us into WHAT is adultery? 2 people having sex? 2 people having a conversation where they share their feelings?


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## jvin248 (Jan 31, 2012)

.
The cheating MC is a very important issue for readers. You must handle it carefully.
.
Personal Example: Beta readers that went through my last New Adult release (left in the sig) were very clear with stating how the timing of the cheating characters worked for them - I had set up the villain character to cheat first and the MC didn't act on feelings with the other protagonist until clear the old relationship was doomed/divorce was happening. Also, the story ends with an HEA. 
.
.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

The genre "romance" does not allow for adultery.  HOWEVER, love stories many times have adultry in them. Many stories about adultry end up being big sellers. Someone here published a link to the 20 greatest books of the 19th century and the 20th century. The first couple in each century were either about adultry or sexual obcession.

Just don't make the mistake of calling it a "romance". That genre never has cheating, death or unhappy endings. I guess romance is a grown-up fairy tale. Except, come to think of it, even fairy tales have deceit, death and violence in them. Many don't have happy endings. Not sure why so many women enjoy reading books where they know what's going to happen, but the fact remains that they do.  And many authors profit from that. Different strokes.

MC cheating is not a big issue in lit fic, drama, family saga and to some extent historical.


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## Dina (May 24, 2013)

hunterone said:


> Ah ok so really it's a matter of CATEGORY and not really, what is right?


I understood the question to be a category placement (genre fiction only), not a moral one. Genre fiction is about an emotional, but expected, read - like riding a roller coaster where you know how it ends, but what a fun ride!General fiction explores all sorts of levels of the human experience, including romance. That doesn't mean the romance fits category/genre romance. And it doesn't have to, right? Write what you love, then worry about marketing it. Your editor and beta readers will help you decide if it belongs in genre fiction.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Caddy said:


> Just don't make the mistake of calling it a "romance". That genre never has cheating, death or unhappy endings. I guess romance is a grown-up fairy tale. Except, come to think of it, even fairy tales have deceit, death and violence in them. Many don't have happy endings. Not sure why so many women enjoy reading books where they know what's going to happen, but the fact remains that they do.  And many authors profit from that. Different strokes.


There are many many romance with lots of death and even violence in them. Deceit, pain, suffering, despair. Its all there part of the journey in some romances. Not sure where this perception comes from sometimes that romance is all rainbows and fluffy teddy bears. Would make me gag. I don't even read sweet type romances. Violence even happens to the couple, a lot in romance. As long as neither of them dies, its all good.

And I don't have a clue what happens before I read a book. I have 350 or so pages where I have no clue what is going to happen. Isn't that the whole point in reading a new book? Or course if I re-read, just like re-watching a movie, I know whats going to happen. But a new book? A new romance? I have no clue. And that is the fun of it. 
Another misconception about romance. Just because you know there will be a HFN/HEA, doesn't mean you know whats going to happen. 

As to the question in this thread about cheating. It depends for me. First, the other thing that would turn me off is the mentioning of 2 couples. For a romance that is. Just not a fan of those that follow more than one couple at a time. Some do it great, but usually it feels shortchanged.
And are we talking about cheating between the 2 couples? Swinging? I just don't have enough data to say one way or another. Many romance readers do not want cheating. I can take it depending on the skill of the writer. Usually only done well by the greats of the recent past. 
Greats of romance, they know how far they can push and where it goes.

For me, no religious reasons, I am devoid of any religion. Morals? I don't decide those for others. Its more of a expectation of genre. That simple. Don't sell me hazelnut chocolate at the store and I come home and find out its actually something with raisins in it.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

hunterone said:


> Ah ok so really it's a matter of CATEGORY and not really, what is right?
> 
> i.e romance category = happy ending ( no adultery)
> womens fiction = you might get away with it, but more than likely you will be hung
> ...


If you hide the fact that there's cheating and call it a romance, be prepared for many one star reviews.

Romance readers do not want this....ever, no justification will work.

For romance. There's a certain expectation there that can't be violated. You can do so, but don't say you weren't warned! I read a lot of romance and cheating is a huge turn-off.

I would make it clear in your blurb that there's cheating if you go women's fiction. It could work in that category depending on how the rest of your story goes, but it is such a controversial thing that it shouldn't be a surprise or you'll anger the reader. Let them decide by the blurb if they want to venture in.

Just my two cents!


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

hunterone said:


> Yes i agree i wish authors would explore it more.
> 
> I mean let's face it. Some of the best novels are rooted in reality. Not just fantasy.
> 
> ...


Some people want novels that reflect reality. Some people want to escape reality into a world where cheating doesn't happen and where people live happily ever after.

Write whatever you want to write. You may find an audience, or you may not.

But just be aware that to most people, "romance" as a genre has a specific definition and specific rules. And adultery is not part of that genre.

So, you can call it a love story, call it women's fiction, call it contemporary fiction, but don't put it in the romance category.


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## Dina (May 24, 2013)

telracs said:


> Some people want novels that reflect reality. Some people want to escape reality into a world where cheating doesn't happen and where people live happily ever after.
> 
> Write whatever you want to write. You may find an audience, or you may not.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Atunah said:


> I have 350 or so pages where I have no clue what is going to happen. Isn't that the whole point in reading a new book? Or course if I re-read, just like re-watching a movie, I know whats going to happen. But a new book? A new romance? I have no clue. And that is the fun of it.
> 
> Don't sell me hazelnut chocolate at the store and I come home and find out its actually something with raisins in it.


First, i like your analogy, funny 

But doesn't it conflict with what you just said about not having a clue and that is the fun of it? I gather you mean, let the reader know there is going to be cheating in the description ahead of time?


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## Paranormal Piper (Sep 24, 2012)

That's the good thing and bad thing about niche/genre fiction. It usually follows a formula, which makes it easy to provide readers with what they want, but it's also a great way to make readers mad if the 'recipe' contains an unexpected ingredient.

It's probably best to follow Telrac's advice



telracs said:


> So, you can call it a love story, call it women's fiction, call it contemporary fiction, but don't put it in the romance category.


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

What about open relationships?


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

mjshaw said:


> That's the good thing and bad thing about niche/genre fiction. It usually follows a formula, which makes it easy to provide readers with what they want, but it's also a great way to make readers mad if the 'recipe' contains an unexpected ingredient.
> 
> It's probably best to follow Telrac's advice


Very good. This thread has been insightful. Thank you everyone.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think there is any conflict with what I said. I said there is genre expectations and under those I read the books in the genres I pick. And I don't know how a book is going until I read it. 

The cheating thing is a different issue. I have read 1000's of romances. I can count on one hand those that had cheating in them that actually worked for me. And now thinking of it, all of those where historical romances. And I am a romance reader that reads about anything, any sub genre, some blurred line thingies, as long as its still romance. So if I can only find a handful, but big authors, that worked, you can imagine it doesn't go over well in the genre romance readers. 

Even if you put in a warning, not everyone reads the description and many times don't have it anymore when they get to reading the actual book. For me as a romance reader, it is very very difficult to believe in a HEA/HFN when either of the couple cheated. And what matters in romance is a believable HEA. 
In contemporary romance, I have a hard time overlooking cheating and still believing in that and call it a romance. I don't even care if someone is married or not. 

In historical I think there is a bit more playroom because of historical issues like heirs. 

So it sounds more like women's fiction, or just fiction.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

I wouldn't say I "love" cheating in fiction -- that's not really the right word -- but I do find it interesting (in a train wreck kind of way, lol!) when it's well written and the situation and characters are believable. But I read more women's fic/lit fic than romance, so I am not a typical romance reader. 

There is all kinds of train wreck affairs (both physical and emotional) in my next novel. None of the characters are bad people either. But the story is not a romance (even though it is very romantic). It's lit fic/women's fic, so anything goes. 

This is something I have had to come to terms with as a writer trying to find my place in the big wide writing world -- you can write very romantic fiction without it being one ounce of genre romance. It's even more confusing when you have readers (who are maybe not big genre romance readers) call your fiction Romance, when it's not. (Nicholas Sparks has a point about saying he DOES NOT write romances -- it gives people the wrong idea about what kind of story they're about to read.) And you have to come to accept that those Romance readers, that big lucrative market, are just not looking for what you have to offer. The lit fic/women's fic market is MUCH smaller, which is sad. But ah well. We write what we write. We put it where it goes. And hopefully we find the people who WILL connect with it and appreciate it.


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Arsen by Mia Asher is a contemporary romance with adultery. I haven't read it yet but it appears to be doing pretty good on Amazon (rank #125) with quite a few 5-star ratings.

http://www.amazon.com/Arsen-broken-love-story-ebook/dp/B00EPZUSYY


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Arsen is a New Adult title - different genre than contemporary romance. Tons of cheating in New Adult.


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Arsen is listed under contemporary romance in amazon. doing well for not being listed under New Adult.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

So what is the difference between contemporary romance and NA? Is it just the ages and backgrounds of the main characters? Or is there something more to it?


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

brie.mcgill said:


> What about open relationships?


This would almost certainly either be erotic romance, or if it wasn't erotic, then it would probably be a niche contemporary fiction story more than a romance, per se.
*
Here's my answer:* write the story. Don't worry about conforming to genre norms, particularly if you aren't familiar with the genre. There's a reader for almost anything. BUT, before you start marketing said story, figure out where it fits in best.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Linda Castillo said:


> Arsen by Mia Asher is a contemporary romance with adultery. I haven't read it yet but it appears to be doing pretty good on Amazon (rank #125) with quite a few 5-star ratings.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Arsen-broken-love-story-ebook/dp/B00EPZUSYY


No, this is NOT contemporary romance. It may be shelved there, but as someone else said it's so obviously not....and because it's obviously NOT, it's doing well because it's quite clear exactly what it is. Just from the title, Arsen, a Broken Love Story, you know this isn't your typical romance. It's also clear from the cover....no couple.

Then you go to the blurb,

One glance was all it took&#8230;

I'm a cheater.
I'm a liar.
My whole life is a mess.

I love a man.
No, I love two men&#8230;
I think.

One makes love to me. The other sets me on fire.
One is my rock. The other is my kryptonite.

This sets exactly the right expectation for what the book is....no one who starts reading this is going to expect a typical romance.


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Lots of New Adult books don't end up in that category on Amazon - it doesn't change who the core reader base for those books is. And it's not exactly the same base as contemporary romance. There's overlap, for sure, but if you put my covers on Asher's content, you'd have some p*ssed off readers. 

Madeline Sheehan's Undeniable is another good example - not exactly New Adult, but not a contemporary romance, either. Well branded as something edgy and different.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Caddy said:


> The genre "romance" does not allow for adultery. HOWEVER, love stories many times have adultry in them. Many stories about adultry end up being big sellers. Someone here published a link to the 20 greatest books of the 19th century and the 20th century. The first couple in each century were either about adultry or sexual obcession.


Sorry for butting in despite my lack of essential credentials: but I was the one that published that link. Isn't it amazing, also, that the presidents who committed adultery (Clinton, JFK, FDR) are more memorable than the ones who didn't? So, if you're aiming for one of the top spots for the 21st Century, adultery seems like a good bet.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Lydniz said:


> So what is the difference between contemporary romance and NA? Is it just the ages and backgrounds of the main characters? Or is there something more to it?


Contemporary romance is usually your classic romance, where the love story is the focus and there's a happy ending.

New Adult might have romance but it won't necessarily be the main focus, there may be other darker issues going on. There's usually a lot of angst and the characters are usually in their 20's, it's all very intense.


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

New Adult stories are often about lives in transition, and the HEA is sometimes a HFN (Happy For Now), or achieved over a prolonged story arc (like a duology or trilogy). 

There are NA books that closely align with the contemporary romance single title standalone novel expectations, but many don't.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Thanks, Pamela and Zoe, that's really helpful.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

Zoe York said:


> Arsen is a New Adult title - different genre than contemporary romance. Tons of cheating in New Adult.


It seems like the characters are in their 30's, but it does have a very NA-type cover, so I'm sure that also helps pick up some of those kind of readers who like that kind of intense NA drama. Interesting tip, I suppose, if anyone not writing NA wanted to pick up some of those readers. It seems to be doing well for her.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

The only Kindle book I ever returned was one labeled as a romance, but that had adultery. I stopped reading and returned it as soon as I realized it had adultery. Adultery is not what I look for in a romance. In a romance, I want true love and fidelity.

Yes, genre makes all the difference. 

I, too, accepted the adultery in Outlander by Diana Gabaldon. Those were very special circumstances (time travel to a historical period in which young attractive widows are victimized), and I am not convinced that just any author could pull it off, even so.


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Laura Rae Amos said:


> It seems like the characters are in their 30's, but it does have a very NA-type cover, so I'm sure that also helps pick up some of those kind of readers who like that kind of intense NA drama. Interesting tip, I suppose, if anyone not writing NA wanted to pick up some of those readers. It seems to be doing well for her.


This is why I compare it to Undeniable. Life in transition and emotional uncertainty are the themes, as opposed to college or literally a "new adult".

Romances tend to start with a life transition, or an inciting event, but then progress toward stability, with bumps along the way. I haven't read as much NA as others, but from what I've read, and read about, stability at the end is far from certain.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> There are many many romance with lots of death and even violence in them. Deceit, pain, suffering, despair. Its all there part of the journey in some romances. Not sure where this perception comes from sometimes that romance is all rainbows and fluffy teddy bears. Would make me gag. I don't even read sweet type romances. Violence even happens to the couple, a lot in romance. *As long as neither of them dies, its all good*.


I should have been more specific. My posts are always so long, and whenever I try for brevity it misfires. When I said "no death" I meant the MC and his/her love interest. There used to be a romance category called "Bittersweet romance" where either could die, or they could end up not together. Of course, by the title you STILL knew the ending.

I understand you don't know exactly what's going to happen, but you do know the couple will end up together and thrilled about it, even if it's "for now"...which is why I can't read romance. I don't like knowing that. It's too predictable for me.  Not saying there's anything wrong with it. I don't like mayo on my sandwiches, either. Some do.

Also, someone said all genre fiction has a pre-concieved way it should be done. I would argue that. It's true for romance, but family saga, fantasy, mystery, historical, drama, etc may have some things that are needed (i.e. accurate historical facts for historical, a mystery solved for mystery) but they don't require you to make the characters behave or end up a certain way. Romance is the only one with that narrow of a field.


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Romance isn't everyone's cup of tea. But how is knowing there's a HEA any different than reading fiction set in a historically significant period like WWII? A story set in Honolulu in early December, 1941 will have the specter of Pearl Harbor hanging over it - it's how that's executed that either makes it interesting or not.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Caddy said:


> I guess romance is a grown-up fairy tale. Except, come to think of it, even fairy tales have deceit, death and violence in them.


Actually many romances have deceit, death, and violence in them. They still have HEAs as to the MCs. There are also some romances that have adultery in them - adultery by a MC as to a previous spouse before meeting the other MC. After all once one finds True Love stomping all over less fantastic people is perfectly justified.

It's any hint of unfaithfulness between the MCs once they lay eyes on each other that causes howls of outrage in reviews and reader forums. I admit if the couple is married (a) I'd want to know before hand (b) so I could save my money rather than return the book when I got to that point in it.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Zoe York said:


> Romance isn't everyone's cup of tea. But how is knowing there's a HEA any different than reading fiction set in a historically significant period like WWII? A story set in Honolulu in early December, 1941 will have the specter of Pearl Harbor hanging over it - it's how that's executed that either makes it interesting or not.


Yep, and in mystery, cozy mystery etc, you know by the end you'll have the crime resolved. Knowing that, doesn't take away from reading the book anymore than knowing the couple will prevail at the end. I don't read any books just for the end of them, romance or otherwise.

I remember watching Columbo on TV when I was younger and we even knew who the killer was in the beginning and that never took away from anything. It was the getting there.

So as someone that has read many genres under the sun including romance, I don't find romance to be an more narrow than any other genre. Every genre has that something that defines it. A solved murder or a HEA. Same thing of different color. 

And don't get me started on NA. Yikes that has gone downhill fast. Yet I keep trying to read them. No idea why. I guess I refuse to believe that Easy and Slammed is all good there is.

One I read that has the cheating in it "Thoughtless". Its one of those trilogy thingies. Got rave reviews. The girl in there, I call her girl because they all act like they are 13. She cheats. One day she does her boyfriend, the other she does the other one she has hots for. She literally jumps into bed with one, they all live together, and then right after jumps into bed or shower, can't remember, with the other one. She still had his stuff on her. Ugh. 
Yet, she kept acting like she was some kind of victim for having to choose. How dare life forces me to make choices wah wah wah. It was horrible. And in 1st person so the whining and the wishi washi stuff was way over the top. I could not take it anymore. No way no how will I ever pick up the next one.

And many times that stuff is shelved in romance. Lots of stuff is thrown in there now that doesn't belong. I have stopped completely browsing in the categories now. I'll stick with peeps from goodreads.

Give me back list stuff any day over this "new" stuff.


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## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

There's a new book that just came out the other day, Arsen it's an NA, and I haven't read the book but from what I'm reading on reviews it seems like there's cheating involved and the spouse is actually a real sweetheart. Book is flying up the charts though, so perhaps there's a readership for it. 

Again, I haven't read the book so my facts might be a little skewed.

ETA: LOL... I should have read the rest of the thread, just noticed the comments on Arsen. So yeah, clearly it is a cheater book.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm an adultery junkie. I've read most everything listed here and just picked up Arsen and will probably have it read by the time anyone reads this post.

I got a tough review, possibly my toughest ever, because one of my romance guys drops one girl for another and not on a clean crossover timeline. I tend to write the way life is. But you know, it was only one reviewer. Everybody else gave it a pass.

So if you can bear some bad reviews, write what makes sense for your story. I only put in the crossover because I felt like it was too easy for them both to be single. I mean, how often is the hot guy and the smokin' chick single at the same time?

But I get it's a tough subject for many. It's a draw for me. I like complexity.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

As a reader, I wouldn't read a book with adultery. I did once back around age 18 and I hated it. I felt no sympathy for the cheater at all and the book just left me feeling angry.

I have a question--would romance readers read about a married couple that is going through problems unrelated to cheating? Problems most of us can relate to (money, work, kids)? The stories wouldn't be erotica, but they would be pretty sensual. I'm thinking about a series like that, but since there is no first attraction or fight to win someone's love, I don't know if romance readers would like them.


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## Dina (May 24, 2013)

MaryMcDonald said:


> As a reader, I wouldn't read a book with adultery. I did once back around age 18 and I hated it. I felt no sympathy for the cheater at all and the book just left me feeling angry.
> 
> I have a question--would romance readers read about a married couple that is going through problems unrelated to cheating? Problems most of us can relate to (money, work, kids)? The stories wouldn't be erotica, but they would be pretty sensual. I'm thinking about a series like that, but since there is no first attraction or fight to win someone's love, I don't know if romance readers would like them.


I've not read it yet but Kristen Callihan has a series (Darkest London), romance, in which the married hero and heroine have marital difficulties. From reading the previous book, adultery is not the issue but betrayal is. It's a fun series and I'm looking forward to reading the third book because they are married (long-time married, not just the forced marriage scenario).


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Oh yeah, I love romances that start with marital troubles. Just published one, in fact.  It's a pretty common trope.

Okay, here's the thing. I think if anyone wants to write publish commercially write *romance*, then you need to read the genre. I'm happy to provide a suggested reading list. I mean this in the nicest way, but if you aren't familiar with whether or not something falls into a genre trope, you'll have trouble marketing your work.

If you want to write a love story that falls outside the romance category, but is close/maybe a crossover/on the fringe, then there are other guidelines to consider. Length is a big one - the more complicated the story, the longer the work maybe should be. Except not too long. It's a fine line.  Is it more emotional, or is it erotic? Either is fine. Both is crack. (That's a good thing - again, that goes back to knowing the marketplace).


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I'd be interested in pointers towards some writers I should be reading, Zoe, if you can suggest them. I've recently read Wait For You by J Lynn, which looked like NA to me; also 50 Shades (which was better than I expected, actually) and Elle's Shine Not Burn, which was great. I'm quite interested in romantic comedy and contemporary romance.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

One of my favorite books actually involves adultery now that I think of it!  I didn't expect to like the book as much as I did, just couldn't imagine a heroine who steals her best friends boyfriend. But the author, Emily Giffin, pulled it off so well that I was rooting for the heroine. That book is women's fiction/chick lit called Something Borrowed.  I disliked her friend in the book so much that I couldn't imagine I'd like the sequel which was her story, Something Blue, but this author is just so good that I was rooting for her too.

They made a movie of the book too, starring Kate Hudson, it was a runaway bestseller.


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> I'd be interested in pointers towards some writers I should be reading, Zoe, if you can suggest them. I've recently read Wait For You by J Lynn, which looked like NA to me; also 50 Shades (which was better than I expected, actually) and Elle's Shine Not Burn, which was great. I'm quite interested in romantic comedy and contemporary romance.


There are a bunch of first person series about the same couple that are popular right now: Sylvia Day's Crossfire Series, Maya Cross's Locked series, Kitty French's Knight & Play...

Easy, by Tammara Webber - I haven't read it yet, but it's on a lot of favourites lists - same with anything by Colleen Hoover

But my reading is more in the 3rd person narrator contemporary romance and erotic romance arena, and the reading list I'd suggest from there would be:
Liberating Lacey, by Anne Calhoun - don't let the awful Ellora's Cave cover scare you off
Ruthie Knox's Camelot series (each can be read as a standalone)
Jill Shalvis's Wilder series, especially the 3rd book, Instant Temptation, which can be read as a standalone
Dirty, by Megan Hart (heavier themes, be warned)
The Brown Sibling series, by Lauren Dane (first is a MMF menage)
Kit Rocha's Beyond series (the first, Beyond Shame, is only 99 cents!)
Kristen Ashley...lots of people suggest starting with the Dream Man series, but I can't agree with that - I think the Colorado Mountain series is most accessible - her voice is super unique, and her early books are not significantly edited, which is a problem for some people

There are a ton of others, but that's where I'll leave it for now.

(There are a bunch of great romance writers here on kboards, too, like H.M. Ward, Bella Andre, Elle Casey as previously mentioned, Maya Cross, Cheryl Douglas, etc., but I can't make a comprehensive list off the top of my head)


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## KOwrites (May 23, 2011)

TexasGirl said:


> I'm an adultery junkie. I've read most everything listed here and just picked up Arsen and will probably have it read by the time anyone reads this post.
> 
> I got a tough review, possibly my toughest ever, because one of my romance guys drops one girl for another and not on a clean crossover timeline. I tend to write the way life is. But you know, it was only one reviewer. Everybody else gave it a pass.
> 
> ...


I like complexity too. That's what I write.

I put my first three books in U.S. Drama because I can keep them on the top 100 list and they are not pure romance. My most divisive book is NTU for sure; cheater all the way plus tragedy thrown in to stir it all up. Readers love or hate that book. I put a warning up front that states that the story line includes infidelity. Perhaps, that staves off the knives at my writer's soul.

My latest book strayed out of the contemporary women's fiction genre with a 17-year-old heroine and 22-year-old hero and is playing nice in sports romance, holiday romance, and sports fiction. It's not quite coming of age, not quite bad-boy NA, but not your 65K-80K romance either. It's 1ong--coming in at 432 printed pages but so far my reader base is loving it. I'm trying to get it (TMIT) into the NA cat. but so far it's not there. It should be if you look at the top 100 list for NA. I can't figure it out.

In any case, thanks for the posing of the original question. I learned a lot. And that's always a good thing here.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Zoe York said:


> Arsen is a New Adult title - different genre than contemporary romance. Tons of cheating in New Adult.


Ah but looking at the categories and description there is no mention of New Adult.

Anyone would think its romance as thats where its been placed.

Maybe people are open to it, IF, its made clear up front as this lady has done with this book in her description


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Zoe York said:


> Oh yeah, I love romances that start with marital troubles. Just published one, in fact.  It's a pretty common trope.
> 
> Okay, here's the thing. I think if anyone wants to write publish commercially write *romance*, then you need to read the genre. I'm happy to provide a suggested reading list. I mean this in the nicest way, but if you aren't familiar with whether or not something falls into a genre trope, you'll have trouble marketing your work.
> 
> If you want to write a love story that falls outside the romance category, but is close/maybe a crossover/on the fringe, then there are other guidelines to consider. Length is a big one - the more complicated the story, the longer the work maybe should be. Except not too long. It's a fine line.  Is it more emotional, or is it erotic? Either is fine. Both is crack. (That's a good thing - again, that goes back to knowing the marketplace).


I do read lots of romance books, been reading them since I was 17, so more than 30 years, but I don't really pay attention to what is popular--other than 50 Shades of Grey, of course. I just happily read romances set in the 1800s, like mail order brides, or time travel romance. I haven't read a lot of contemporary romance, although I've read a few Nicholas Sparks, Kristin Hannah, Donna Fasano,  and another big name that is on the tip of my tongue, but I can't recall. What I'm toying with is something like LaVryle Spencer wrote. She was my favorite romance author of all time, and since she retired, I've been searching for a replacement.I love the emotional aspect she brought to her stories and the characters weren't all arrogant and powerful. Not sure if anyone watched Friday Night Lights, the TV show, but the main couple in that show had a super sexy, grounded marriage, and that is an inspiration for my books also--only in the show, the bedroom door was closed whenever anything _really_ good happened.  I want that kind of dynamic, but the readers would be right there.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

PamelaKelley said:


> One of my favorite books actually involves adultery now that I think of it! I didn't expect to like the book as much as I did, just couldn't imagine a heroine who steals her best friends boyfriend. But the author, Emily Giffin, pulled it off so well that I was rooting for the heroine. That book is women's fiction/chick lit called Something Borrowed. I disliked her friend in the book so much that I couldn't imagine I'd like the sequel which was her story, Something Blue, but this author is just so good that I was rooting for her too.
> 
> They made a movie of the book too, starring Kate Hudson, it was a runaway bestseller.


Yes and that was pitched in film as a ROMCOM ( romance comedy)

Though having said that its category in books is contemporary fiction or womens friendship

I really think there is the hardcore. Love that ends with a happy ending Traditional type of romance but we are definitely seeing more books coming forward which are starting to show that ROMANCE can be in relationships that are complex and are not black and white.

I liked the movie something borrowed, but didn't read the book.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

I think another interesting thing to point out is that TODAY there are many categories under romance, because there really are many variations. I could see one involving cheating falling under erotica romance, new adult romance and contemporary romance. Harlequin to me would be your hardcore traditional romance that is sold in supermarkets.

•	African American
•	Collections & Anthologies
•	Contemporary
•	Erotica
•	Fantasy
•	Futuristic & Science Fiction
•	Gay Romance
•	Gothic
•	Harlequin
•	Historical Romance
•	Holidays
•	Inspirational
•	Lesbian Romance
•	Military
•	Multicultural & Interracial
•	Mystery & Suspense
•	New Adult & College
•	Paranormal
•	Romantic Comedy
•	Series
•	Sports
•	Time Travel
•	Westerns


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

hunterone said:


> I think another interesting thing to point out is that TODAY there are many categories under romance, because there really are many variations. I could see one involving cheating falling under erotica romance, new adult romance and contemporary romance. Harlequin to me would be your hardcore traditional romance that is sold in supermarkets.


And you'd be wrong with that assumption. Familiarity with the genre helps. 
Harlequin is actually the one with a line called harlequin presents and there are threads and lists with books from that line that have the cheating hero. Lynne Graham is a well known of those. 
Romance is romance, doesn't really matter what the publisher is or what the subgenre is. Harlequin just has more guidelines and specific lines with specific length, so readers can find what they want. Category romances is what they are called. Now there is also entangled and crimson that publish category romance.


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

My novel Seikou completely revolves around a blip of infidelity and how it affects the main couple of the series. I knew going in that people probably wouldn't like it, but hilariously enough it's not only my highest rated story across the board, but it's also my best selling (as the third in the series, ha) and the one that gets me regular fanmail from women who say they really identify with what's going on and that it made them cry (in a good way.) I'm not gonna lie. I think it's the best in the series so far too. (There's a lot of other things going on, including the cheating MC dealing with gender dysphoria and the main couple being polyamorous, which is how she was technically cheating because she misunderstood their boundaries by not getting her wife's permission first.) Pretty much the entire novel is about how it actually brings the couple closer together as it forces them to reanalyze the boundaries of their relationship and what they want from their marriage. 

But as you can tell, I don't write any kind of conventional romances. I write about women in open relationships with varying levels of boundaries. I'm a realist through and through so I eschew the "jumping into a fantasy" elements. But I always guarantee a happy ending for the central couple. My challenge is making you enjoy the ride and wholly believing the happy ending. Obviously I write in a crazy niche, but it is definitely working for me. 

And for the person asking about series revolving around marital issues, my entire series is pretty much the ups and downs of a 20 year long relationship. Which means lots of marital problems. =P

It is important to acknowledge that for many people, whether rooted in personal experience or not, adultery is just something that is too much for them. That's perfectly fine. I always make sure to clearly state what's going on in my novels. The one I mentioned here not only mentions it right at the top of the blurb but also in the notes section. Hasn't stopped it from paying some of my monthly bills.


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

This had been a super interesting thread to read! 
It made me think about, as a reader of romance, in what context I would accept adultery without hating the MCs.

Of course, Claire Randall Fraser had a very good reason for cheating, and basically her husband wasn't even born yet so...

If the heroine's husband was a real jerk, like abusive level, and the heroine regretfully, accidentally kissed the hero, but then tried to make it work with her jerk husband, but then he husband would of course die or end up in prison so she could be with the hero. lol

If it were historical and the marriage were forced or arranged and loveless. It always helps if the cheatee is a real a**hole as well. In a romance novel, I would find it very hard to be sympathetic with a cheater if his/her spouse was lovely.

Maybe one of the spouses has a terminal illness and the hero/heroine falls into another's arms for comfort? This could be iffy.

If the cheater learned a valuable lesson, showed true remorse, and the whole point of the story was to rekindle the relationship and overcome marriage obstacles, and NOT to end up with the person he/she cheated with. 

Also, I loved Jane Eyre, it was one of my faves growing up. So, if the wife is a raving lunatic who lives in the attic and tries to bite people and sets the house on fire, then you can cheat on her.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Richardcrasta said:


> Sorry for butting in despite my lack of essential credentials: but I was the one that published that link. Isn't it amazing, also, that the presidents who committed adultery (Clinton, JFK, FDR) are more memorable than the ones who didn't? So, if you're aiming for one of the top spots for the 21st Century, adultery seems like a good bet.


Clinton is memorable?  Maybe it's because I'm Australian, but I find Al Gore far more memorable, and he wasn't even president.

Cassidy, yes Jane Eyre came (uncomfortably) to my mind too.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Great discussion. I have a novel that I've been hesitating in publishing because of this topic! I'd already decided it wouldn't classify as romance, luckily it's also fantasy, so that gives an easy classification. I love the suggestions on making sure it's clear in the blurb though, that's a good idea.

In my current novel, the hero's wife leaves him in the opening chapter. He is determined to win her back, but in the process discovers his marriage wasn't as great as he thought it was, and meets someone new. I'm guessing though, that because his wife left him, then it isn't quite as much of an issue? I haven't had any complaints about it from readers though, though a couple have commented that he should have mentioned it to the new woman, which I agree I should have included in hindsight. Luckily it will all be sorted in the sequel.


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## KOwrites (May 23, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Great discussion. I have a novel that I've been hesitating in publishing because of this topic! I'd already decided it wouldn't classify as romance, luckily it's also fantasy, so that gives an easy classification. I love the suggestions on making sure it's clear in the blurb though, that's a good idea.
> 
> In my current novel, the hero's wife leaves him in the opening chapter. He is determined to win her back, but in the process discovers his marriage wasn't as great as he thought it was, and meets someone new. I'm guessing though, that because his wife left him, then it isn't quite as much of an issue? I haven't had any complaints about it from readers though, though a couple have commented that he should have mentioned it to the new woman, which I agree I should have included in hindsight. Luckily it will all be sorted in the sequel.


Have you ever read Jodi Picoult's stuff? Her book _Mercy_ opens that way (the wife leaving; it's her POV so that's probably where the similarities end). Really good book.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Thanks so much for that list, Zoe. I'll start looking them up. Now, I wonder whether this is all tax deductible...


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## KerryT2012 (Dec 18, 2012)

Funny, I wrote a book recently on the topic, but it was classed as erotica.
Sold quite well, but had other fundamental problems. Readers said they bought it for that reason i.e. it was 2 people hooking up who were both married.

On another note, I'm writing one at the moment, but on the other side of the spectrum. Husband cheating on the wife and how they deal with it as a couple. Not sure, after reading this post what to call it. I was thinking it was a romantic comedy, now a bit stunned as to what to call it.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I wouldn't read it, and yes, I'd want to know adultery was involved. I don't read much romance anymore, but that's my gut take on the question.

While I agree it's a subject that should be written about, from what I understand of the genre "tropes" if you will, is that adultery doesn't qualify for the romance title. Make it a women's fiction story, with romance and a happy ending, and you might do fine.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

I really think it depends on genre.  In a romance that kind of thing might be frowned on.  In women's fiction or contemporary fiction, it would be much more acceptable to the typical reader.  Baptism for the Dead (below) pretty much relies entirely on adultery, and the love/relationship elements are really strong in it, although it's not a romance.  It's not my strongest-selling book, but it gets consistently good reviews, so I have to assume that readers aren't bugged by it.


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## mrain4th (May 19, 2013)

Adultery is neither romantic nor amusing.  If it were in the blurb I wouldn't buy it.  When I came on it in the story I'd quit reading, and would not buy that author's books again.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> Adultery is neither romantic nor amusing. If it were in the blurb I wouldn't buy it. When I came on it in the story I'd quit reading, and would not buy that author's books again.


Nor are all books written to be romantic or amusing. As long as it isn't classified as romance, there are many people who like a good drama, in that or another appropriate category.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

mrain4th said:


> Adultery is neither romantic nor amusing. If it were in the blurb I wouldn't buy it. When I came on it in the story I'd quit reading, and would not buy that author's books again.





Caddy said:


> Nor are all books written to be romantic or amusing. As long as it isn't classified as romance, there are many people who like a good drama, in that or another appropriate category.


^ This!!! For real, people! Some of us ENJOY reading about the gut-wrenchingly realistic dramas and tragedies of the world, not because we think it's romantic or amusing, but because it provokes thought and exploration of ideas. Or because there is beauty to be found in overcoming the struggle. Who knows why? Maybe we're gluttons for punishment. Maybe we want to identify with something. It doesn't matter why, but truth is there are PLENTY of categories where these kinds of stories live and thrive! Women's fiction, contemporary fiction, literary fiction, or some combination of all of the above. Genre Romance is not a good place for them, but stories about love come in all sorts of shades, clean and messy, simple or complex, and exist outside of Genre Romance too.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I think that a large majority of readers don't like it. Even struggling with feelings can be problematic. For example, the majority of my beta readers had issues with the way I wrote the love triangle in the second book of my series. The main character was struggling with her feelings toward both of the guys, but a lot of beta readers complained that she was stringing guy B along and said she came off as heartless. Once I made some changes so that it was only guy B trying to win her over, then everyone was happy.


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## KOwrites (May 23, 2011)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I think that a large majority of readers don't like it. Even struggling with feelings can be problematic. For example, the majority of my beta readers had issues with the way I wrote the love triangle in the second book of my series. The main character was struggling with her feelings toward both of the guys, but a lot of beta readers complained that she was stringing guy B along and said she came off as heartless. Once I made some changes so that it was only guy B trying to win her over, then everyone was happy.


"...a large majority of readers don't like it..." That's a pretty big statement; and in my mind, simply overstated. But then again, I don't use beta readers so a majority doesn't rule my story line or my writing and we're all better for it.

Let me summarize for Hunterone...

Love stories with adultery should be categorized as fiction (contemporary, women's fiction, and or drama, for starters). Those readers of romance want HEA and there are rules--_rules people!_--that must be followed. Wade in at your own writerly peril.

_Or_, write the story that is calling you, categorize as best you can, and allow the book to find its way. That is what I do. And, so far so good.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I think that a large majority of readers don't like it. Even struggling with feelings can be problematic. For example, the majority of my beta readers had issues with the way I wrote the love triangle in the second book of my series. The main character was struggling with her feelings toward both of the guys, but a lot of beta readers complained that she was stringing guy B along and said she came off as heartless. Once I made some changes so that it was only guy B trying to win her over, then everyone was happy.


I would say a large majority of YOUR CHOSEN readers do not like it. I would not read your MC as heartless. If I was going to read about a love triangle, I would expect drama and a bit of truth. Sorry but to me guy B trying to steal girl from guy A is not a love triangle. Nor is it romance. To be a love triangle the woman has to have feelings for both. Good luck with your book.

Now as to adultery in a book, I would like a back story as to why and no it would not bother me in some genres. Now a HEA romance does not need that.


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## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

This is a complicated question. I think that the characters who are supposed to end together shouldn't cheat on each other because romance readers would freak out. It's just not romance if that happens. Now, if they cheat on someone else to be together, that might pass, especially if your audience is younger. At least that's my experience.


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