# Do erotic short stories sell?



## Piper Brooks (Aug 31, 2011)

Someone has told me there is almost no money in erotic short stories. Is that true? I was advised to try to sell to an anthology or magazine instead, but most seem to pay a one time payment per word. I know far more people who would spend a buck on a story no one else can see on their Kindle than would invest in an anthology or magazine of erotica.

Am I wasting time by writing erotic short stories with the idea of selling them on Amazon?


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

Weeeeeelll, I published 5 short erotica stories, all between 3,500 and 7,700 word (these do not count my novellas which are all over 15k words) and I published all of them half way into August up until August 22nd and between all 5 titles (in two weeks without any promotion outside of tagging) I sold 78 copies between Amazon, Barnes and Nobel, Smashwords (only a few there) and All Romance ebooks. 

So yeah. I'd say they sell just fine.

Not that submitting to an anthology or magazine is a bad idea, that is a good way to get your name out there, but I wouldn't do only that, you know?


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

My 4,000 word short story, published August 5 on Amazon and August 17 on B&N and Smashwords, netted me 43 sales last month. 1 story, and I'm getting ready to put out more. 

August is also a slow sales month. VEEEEERY slow. 

So, yes. They do. (sell, that is)


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## Jackie Barbosa (Mar 23, 2011)

I can't really speak to EROTIC short stories, per se, but my first self-published work is a short story (8,500 words). It's a romance (Scottish-set historical), but I wouldn't call it erotic.

Since mid-January, this story has sold over 8500 copies. At one point, it was 223 in the Kindle store overall and #10 in Historical Romance. In its best month (July), almost 4,000 copies sold. Sales have slowed a lot since then (I'm down to the 3,000s in the Kindle store and last month I just barely cracked 1,000 sales on Amazon), but I've been so pleased with the results that I've decided to do more self-publishing. Even at only 99 cents a copy, I've made more money on this short story than on the print anthology I sold to Kensington books (and have sold more copies).

All of this said, I have NO idea why this story did as well as it did and I have no great confidence that I can repeat these kinds of sales. So I don't think large sales of short stories (or really, of any individual book) are the norm.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Shorts sell well.. but here's the kicker... "compilations"

Sell your shorts at a cheaper rate, but next bundle them up for $3.99 + that's when you start to seeing better sales.

Basically,


Look for a Niche.
Write a damn good story
Make sure your work is copy-edited (minimal typos, etc...)
Write fast and often
Sell Single stories inexpensively (.99 - $2.99)
Bundle up singles into packs (4+ stories) and sell at $3.99 plus.

Hope this helps.

Some of this advice was learned by trial and error (esp the editing). The rest was from other e-rotica writers, who were generous with their advice.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

Vicky Foxx said:


> Shorts sell well..but here's the kicker.."compilations"
> 
> Sell your shorts at a cheaper rate, but next bundle them up for $3.99 + that's when you start to seeing better sales.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about offering bundles. If you priced all your individuals (say 3 stories) at 2.99 what would you price the bundle at? I keep arguing with myself about it so some advice would be great!


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## heartland (Jul 17, 2011)

Erotica sells great.  But don't make the mistake I did when I first started.  I put a picture inside the ebook, and didn't list that it was a short story with the word count.  My first and only review was someone who was peed because she thought the story was going to be longer than it was due to looking at the KB's.

Also, don't assume that just because it is a short story that it won't sell well at a higher price.  I write under SEVERAL different pen names because I want to vary my niches to see what sells the best.

I started with my very first title in June, priced at .99.  After it started to gain ground, I upped the price and it actually sold more.  go figure.

Also, what you think may be your best work, may not sell as well as something you didn't put as much heart into.  That has happened to me on several occasions.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Piper Brooks said:


> Someone has told me there is almost no money in erotic short stories. Is that true? I was advised to try to sell to an anthology or magazine instead, but most seem to pay a one time payment per word. I know far more people who would spend a buck on a story no one else can see on their Kindle than would invest in an anthology or magazine of erotica.
> Am I wasting time by writing erotic short stories with the idea of selling them on Amazon?


Hi Piper, first of all whoever told you that there is no money in selling short erotic tales is clueless. Having said that, it does take time to get noticed and it also takes more than one story to make it big with erotic lit. So, in answer to your question, no, you are not wasting your time. If you are set on writing short stories though, here are a couple of tips:
1) make sure they are 4000 words or more.
2) make it clear in the blurb that they are short stories, even going as far as telling the reader how many words they hold.
3) wait until you have at least five stories to release before doing so, and when they've all been out for a month release them all as a bundle.
4) never price them above $0.99 as they won't sell well otherwise.
5) release the bundle of five for $2.99. you do this for one reason, the costumer will see that they can save money by buying the bundle over the single tales.
6) go out of your way to find a good cover for all your stories, as nothing attracts a reader more than a good cover.

All the best.

Carl


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## A_Writer_ (May 22, 2011)

Erotica short stories sell well... and they sell at a higher price than other genres.

I agree with Vicky's advice.


Angelina


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

ShaunaG said:


> I was thinking about offering bundles. If you priced all your individuals (say 3 stories) at 2.99 what would you price the bundle at? I keep arguing with myself about it so some advice would be great!


Hey Shauna, I'm still learning. I'm thinking of pricing a 4-story compilation at $3.99 to $4.99. That would seem like a great deal for the reader. Somewhere on this board, there's a post by Selena Kitt outlining her pricing structure. It was very helpful. I wish she'd pop in again and offer up some of her expertise. I miss her posts. 

p.s. Listen to Carl! His advice was so very helpful when I was getting started. He's a pro!


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2011)

Well, let's put it this way...

I sure HOPE they do.

BLISS KISS is the first in a series, and only 99 cents for ~6300 words, and more are on the way.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

Vicky Foxx said:


> Hey Shauna, I'm still learning. I'm thinking of pricing a 4-story compilation at $3.99 to $4.99. That would seem like a great deal for the reader. Somewhere on this board, there's a post by Selena Kitt outlining her pricing structure. It was very helpful. I wish she'd pop in again and offer up some of her expertise. I miss her posts.


I was thinking around $6.99-7.99 because all three would cost $8.97 but I dont want to discount it so much that people who have bought all three individually would feel cheated. But at the same time I'm trying to get the first in the trilogy to go free so I may wait and just put my shorter stories into a compilation. Ah, how we argue with ourselves.

Back to the original post. I do agree with a lot of what Carl has to say, but I disagree with the comment about how much to price them. I decided, since these were erotica and it was my first foyer into the genre I would experiment with price. I have priced all of my stories at $2.99 across the board. I am thinking of raising the cost of my novellas to 3.99 but at 2.99 all of them have sold and sold well, especially since I have done almost no advertising. Just my two cents.


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## A_Writer_ (May 22, 2011)

ShaunaG said:


> Back to the original post. I do agree with a lot of what Carl has to say, but I disagree with the comment about how much to price them. I decided, since these were erotica and it was my first foyer into the genre I would experiment with price. I have priced all of my stories at $2.99 across the board. I am thinking of raising the cost of my novellas to 3.99 but at 2.99 all of them have sold and sold well, especially since I have done almost no advertising. Just my two cents.


I agree. Carl...perhaps you should experiment with some higher prices.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2011)

Carl246 said:


> 6) go out of your way to find a good cover for all your stories, as nothing attracts a reader more than a good cover.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Carl


Does MY cover work for you, Carl?


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## Dianna Hardy (Aug 9, 2011)

Carl's advice is great.

I write erotica and erotic romance under two other names, mostly short stories and one anthology bundle -- they sell very well! But as someone else said, it does take time to build your readership. Other genres that sell well are paranormal romance, urban fantasy and young adult, although if you're ONLY interested in writing short stories, stick to erotica or steamy romance. People buy those for a reason, and sometimes a short story fulfils that reason just fine!


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## Steve the Bear (Jun 28, 2011)

.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> Does MY cover work for you, Carl?


Yes, that is a good cover and one that I would look at more than once, it catches the eye.

Carl


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

ShaunaG said:


> I was thinking around $6.99-7.99 because all three would cost $8.97 but I dont want to discount it so much that people who have bought all three individually would feel cheated. But at the same time I'm trying to get the first in the trilogy to go free so I may wait and just put my shorter stories into a compilation. Ah, how we argue with ourselves.
> 
> Back to the original post. I do agree with a lot of what Carl has to say, but I disagree with the comment about how much to price them. I decided, since these were erotica and it was my first foyer into the genre I would experiment with price. I have priced all of my stories at $2.99 across the board. I am thinking of raising the cost of my novellas to 3.99 but at 2.99 all of them have sold and sold well, especially since I have done almost no advertising. Just my two cents.


Yes Shauna, but you're talking about novellas and not short stories. Novellas are a whole new ball game. I consider a story to be a novella when it's 20,000 words and less than 30,000. Now with a novella I would start at $2.99 and up with the second and third but $0.99 for the first. If the people like your first story they will look for others that were written by you. That tactic has and does work for me, but you're right that you should experiment with prices until you find the right one for you.

All the best.

Carl


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## AdriannaWhite (Jul 30, 2011)

My erotic short stories (all 1500 to 5000 words) greatly outsell my main novels, all without any promotion at all.

On Amazon they are 99 cents, on B&N they are 1.99

So far B&N seems to be selling more of them, go figure.


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## Piper Brooks (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks, everyone.  I was hoping the advice I was getting was wrong! 
I guess I had better get back to work. Happy writing!


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## Margo Lerwill (Jun 13, 2011)

A question for those who have experience with bundling their stories...Do you ever have readers who are upset that they brought the stories singly only to see that you later released a bundle that was a little cheaper per story?  I did see someone get upset over this (in a collection in another genre), but I wonder if it was because the author included a new story in the bundle that had never been released separately (and people who'd already bought the single stories had to buy the bundle just to get the one new story).


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## AKLoggie (Aug 13, 2011)

Carl246 said:


> Yes Shauna, but you're talking about novellas and not short stories. Novellas are a whole new ball game. I consider a story to be a novella when it's 20,000 words and less than 30,000. Now with a novella I would start at $2.99 and up with the second and third but $0.99 for the first. If the people like your first story they will look for others that were written by you. That tactic has and does work for me, but you're right that you should experiment with prices until you find the right one for you.


I was just about to ask this question. Are you in my brain? IT'S A TRAP.

Ahem, sorry, a little punch drunk today.

I'm working on a 4-piece story arc, and I think they will end up being novellas. How would you recommend releasing them? All 4 at once, then bundle a month later? Release 1 every 2 weeks? I know I should probably, you know, finish them before I get too worried about it, but I'm curious!

Really appreciate you sharing your hard won knowledge with us.


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

Erotica seems to be, if not the best, then one of the best selling forms of short stories.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Margo Lerwill said:


> A question for those who have experience with bundling their stories...Do you ever have readers who are upset that they brought the stories singly only to see that you later released a bundle that was a little cheaper per story? I did see someone get upset over this (in a collection in another genre), but I wonder if it was because the author included a new story in the bundle that had never been released separately (and people who'd already bought the single stories had to buy the bundle just to get the one new story).


What you describe is a no-no at least to my way of thinking. People should be aware that a bundle is a collection of stories that they might already own. Bundles in and of themselves attract buyers who see reviews for the single stories and figure that they will save money by going the bundle route. Then there are those that have paid for one short story and have liked it so much that the bundle looks attractive to them. It's all dependent on the prices as well.

Good luck to you.

Carl


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

AKLoggie said:


> I was just about to ask this question. Are you in my brain? IT'S A TRAP.
> 
> Ahem, sorry, a little punch drunk today.
> 
> ...


Personally, I would release them as and when they are finished. That way you get exposure for your work before getting to the bundle side of things. I also cannot stress the importance of having at least one story set free in the course of your journey. As far as free goes, I would wait until you have your first bundle out before setting the very first story you wrote free. Believe me when I say, that first free story will help your sales, assuming of course that your stories are worth reading. Readers will let you know the answer to that one long before you get to the bundle.

Good luck to you.

Carl


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## Nomadwoman (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi All
Ive been looking at people's covers as that seems to be a huge factor. CArl a couple of yours really POP.
Are there dedicated designers who tackle this genre and have access to these sorts of photos?
Im in NW Argentina (very religious) at the moment and i think my designer would asphyxiate if I asked him for this


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> Hi All
> Ive been looking at people's covers as that seems to be a huge factor. CArl a couple of yours really POP.
> Are there dedicated designers who tackle this genre and have access to these sorts of photos?
> Im in NW Argentina (very religious) at the moment and i think my designer would asphyxiate if I asked him for this


I've done a number of different covers for the genre for various authors.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> Hi All
> Ive been looking at people's covers as that seems to be a huge factor. CArl a couple of yours really POP.
> Are there dedicated designers who tackle this genre and have access to these sorts of photos?
> Im in NW Argentina (very religious) at the moment and i think my designer would asphyxiate if I asked him for this


This is an area where you can choose to spend some serious money by checking out the various artists out there, or you can do what I do and find your covers at places like Fotolia, which is the cheaper end of the market. All the pictures you see in my sig are from Fotolia, so there are good covers to be had. Of course just buying the picture is only the start of the story, how you use the graphics and fonts on your covers can make all the difference. For an example of that take a look at two covers of mine. The pictures themselves are exactly the same but the one that was worked on by my Audiobook editor is far better than the one I did myself.



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CWN01C





http://springbrookaudio.com/2011/08/23/hot-tales-of-lust-by-carl-east/



Click on the picture in the second version and it will show a larger cover.

All the best.

Carl


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

Margo Lerwill said:


> A question for those who have experience with bundling their stories...Do you ever have readers who are upset that they brought the stories singly only to see that you later released a bundle that was a little cheaper per story? I did see someone get upset over this (in a collection in another genre), but I wonder if it was because the author included a new story in the bundle that had never been released separately (and people who'd already bought the single stories had to buy the bundle just to get the one new story).


If I had bought stories individually and then saw the author put out a compilation with a new unreleased story that wasnt available anywhere else, I would be mad too. But if it was just a compilation it wouldnt upset me. People do it all the time, in books, movies, music.



AKLoggie said:


> I was just about to ask this question. Are you in my brain? IT'S A TRAP.
> 
> Ahem, sorry, a little punch drunk today.
> 
> ...


For my erotica I just released them as they were ready. Its an in demand, saturated market so I didnt want to be left out. This is one genre where you dont wait to dive into. Especially if you're doing short stories, novellas and novellets. Take time to edit and proofread, yes, but dont wait to get them out there.



Nomadwoman said:


> Hi All
> Ive been looking at people's covers as that seems to be a huge factor. CArl a couple of yours really POP.
> Are there dedicated designers who tackle this genre and have access to these sorts of photos?
> Im in NW Argentina (very religious) at the moment and i think my designer would asphyxiate if I asked him for this


Tara did my covers for The Taryn Malloy Fantasies (covers 2-4 in my sig) and I did the covers for my short stories (covers 5-9). I bought my pics from *bigstockphoto.com* and used paint.net (free) to edit them.


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

What a great thread!    Now I'm going to experiment with the price of my most popular short story and see if it works out... $2.99, here I come!

As for covers, I go the Carl route and make my own with stock photos from dreamstime.com.  If you turn off the smut filter on that site and search for whatever kind of images you'd like, there's actually a decent selection in the $5-$15 price range. After that, it's just a matter of playing with fonts you like. The folks on these boards are absolutely lovely at giving feedback on covers if you're doing them yourself.

As for the free part, I definitely saw a major boost after Tit for Tat went free. However, be prepared that folks who may not be into "quicky" stories will be downloading it for free on a whim, forgetting its short, and then get really disappointed and sometimes grouchy.

You can't please everyone, and with a freebie, everyone will be picking it up whether it's truly their cup of tea or not  .  It made my skin thicker while also building a great fan base for my other stuff. Works for me!


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

DelilahFawkes said:


> What a great thread!  Now I'm going to experiment with the price of my most popular short story and see if it works out... $2.99, here I come!
> 
> As for covers, I go the Carl route and make my own with stock photos from dreamstime.com. If you turn off the smut filter on that site and search for whatever kind of images you'd like, there's actually a decent selection in the $5-$15 price range. After that, it's just a matter of playing with fonts you like. The folks on these boards are absolutely lovely at giving feedback on covers if you're doing them yourself.


Wow, maybe that's why my search stunk so bad, I didn't turn off the filters! How do you do it, I haven't been able to find much there on Dreamstime no matter how creative my searching!

Re: the pricing, I'm experimenting a little this month and making my shorts (3k+ words) $1.99 and my compilation $3.99 just to see how it goes. I had a decent first month with my one short story at $.99 and while I hope for that again, I'd like to see how far I can go.


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

Ladyeclectic said:


> Wow, maybe that's why my search stunk so bad, I didn't turn off the filters! How do you do it, I haven't been able to find much there on Dreamstime no matter how creative my searching!
> 
> Re: the pricing, I'm experimenting a little this month and making my shorts (3k+ words) $1.99 and my compilation $3.99 just to see how it goes. I had a decent first month with my one short story at $.99 and while I hope for that again, I'd like to see how far I can go.


Nice! We'll have to swap stats and see how this whole "pricing" things works out . Good luck!! (I hope this whole making more money thing is true, cause that'd be pretty rad.)

Also, on dreamstime I had to get crazy with the searches . Stuff is labelled in really weird ways like "sensual couple" instead of "naked man and woman" or whatever. You have to search over and over and once you find a picture you like, figure out how they might have labelled similar stuff. Just go crazy in their search box, and eventually you'll hit on something that works.

Hope that helps!


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## Margo Lerwill (Jun 13, 2011)

Carl246 said:


> What you describe is a no-no at least to my way of thinking. People should be aware that a bundle is a collection of stories that they might already own. Bundles in and of themselves attract buyers who see reviews for the single stories and figure that they will save money by going the bundle route. Then there are those that have paid for one short story and have liked it so much that the bundle looks attractive to them. It's all dependent on the prices as well.
> 
> Good luck to you.
> 
> Carl


Ah, okay, that's what I was thinking, but I didn't want to assume, as I haven't put out either a collection or an erotic story. Thanks (and to ShaunaG too) for the feedback.


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## Nomadwoman (Aug 25, 2011)

Just want to say a BIG thank you. You know, before I published I read on various other forums about Kindleboards and Writers cafe authors writing rotten reviews for each other out of spite etc but everyone here has been amazingly supportive of others


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## HAGrant (Jul 17, 2011)

Jackie Barbosa said:


> I can't really speak to EROTIC short stories, per se, but my first self-published work is a short story (8,500 words). It's a romance (Scottish-set historical), but I wouldn't call it erotic.
> 
> Since mid-January, this story has sold over 8500 copies. At one point, it was 223 in the Kindle store overall and #10 in Historical Romance. In its best month (July), almost 4,000 copies sold. Sales have slowed a lot since then (I'm down to the 3,000s in the Kindle store and last month I just barely cracked 1,000 sales on Amazon), but I've been so pleased with the results that I've decided to do more self-publishing. Even at only 99 cents a copy, I've made more money on this short story than on the print anthology I sold to Kensington books (and have sold more copies).
> 
> All of this said, I have NO idea why this story did as well as it did and I have no great confidence that I can repeat these kinds of sales. So I don't think large sales of short stories (or really, of any individual book) are the norm.


Jackie, that's such a great story. Congratulations.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

DelilahFawkes said:


> Nice! We'll have to swap stats and see how this whole "pricing" things works out . Good luck!! (I hope this whole making more money thing is true, cause that'd be pretty rad.)


Yes Delilah, do keep us posted on how the price swap works! When I went from .99 to 2.99 my sales increased. Nothing huge, I went from 1 sale a day to about 3 daily sales. But that was a big deal for me. I checked out your books, and noticed your paid offerings have really decent Amazon rankings. So going 'Free' on one, seems to have really bumped your sales. I bet you one virtual martini, that you'l see a nice income change with a price increase.


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## Rex Jameson (Mar 8, 2011)

OP: "Do erotic short stories sell?"
Me: "Does a bear crap in the woods?"


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

DelilahFawkes said:


> Nice! We'll have to swap stats and see how this whole "pricing" things works out . Good luck!! (I hope this whole making more money thing is true, cause that'd be pretty rad.)
> 
> Also, on dreamstime I had to get crazy with the searches . Stuff is labelled in really weird ways like "sensual couple" instead of "naked man and woman" or whatever. You have to search over and over and once you find a picture you like, figure out how they might have labelled similar stuff. Just go crazy in their search box, and eventually you'll hit on something that works.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Oh it's a BIG help, "sensual couple" pulled up a HUGE list of useable files! Maybe now I won't need to farm out my cover art (although I really heart my cover guy).

And I'll definitely keep you posted on pricing experiment! I hit a wall the end of last month after a really amazing run (don't know what happened but I was doing 3-4 sales a day for nearly a week at one point!) and hope it's a momentary glitch. I'll see what happens for a month then lower it again if necessary for another month. I love having the control to do that!


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2011)

RexJameson said:


> OP: "Do erotic short stories sell?"
> Me: "Does a bear crap in the woods?"


Obviously a man who's never heard of Grizzly Port-a-Johns... *sigh*


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Nomadwoman, I haven't been on here that long, but I've never heard of any authors writing bad reviews out of jealousy.  If anything, I think it's the opposite.  

Delilah..."sensual couples"?  Geez, no wonder why I spent all day searching for pics and coming up empty. I wish these photo stock sites would make their search engines more user-friendly!  

By they way, love the fact that we're seeing more posting activity among the erotica authors.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> By they way, love the fact that we're seeing more posting activity among the erotica authors.


Not sure if it's just coincidental timing or that we're feeling a bit more secure amongst ourselves in the group, but yes, nice to see more people in the genre 

(side note, lost our 5-star purity today *sob* now down to 4.4  )


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2011)

Kate,

4.4 stars is still pretty great.

I'm not sure what readers will think of my shorts. No reviews yet. But hey, I'll take sales over reviews any day!  (I suspect some readers are too shy to review erotica...)


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

At least there's such a massive variety of erotica available now, so there's something for everyone.


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## bettymidnight (Jul 30, 2011)

I love these threads.

Erotic is quite interesting.  I've heard of people uploading and selling copies right then and there... sadly, that wasn't me.  But then again I chose August to start publishing!

I've been out networking, getting reviews, doing the blog swap thing with Vicky.  And of course, I'm plannning on more stories.  My goal is one a month.  I have such a long list of stories that I wrote with nothing to do with... and then in the background, I'm writing an erotica romance novel.

Right now my two stories are this:

1. Straight up erotica i.e. sex sex sex
2. An erotica thriller i.e. murder and sex

I'm going to test all the markets and sub genres I feel comfortable with and see what happens.

~BM~


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

I have to say, we were surprised/lucky with how quickly things took off for us, sometimes I think it's purely the luck of the draw.


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Luck may have something to do with it, but I firmly believe that a well-written book that has been properly formatted with an attractive cover and good blurb WILL sell itself, at least to a certain point. Luck _can_ play a role in whether that book gets catapulted from "selling fairly well" to "selling extremely well" or even "selling like crazy". But from what I've seen, when a book has been out two months or more and is still seeing only single-digit sales, there's a reason for that, and it's usually pretty clear to the casual observer (but not the author).

I was just thinking about this recently. I've seen a few authors on Writer's Cafe bemoaning their negligible sales stats, when I know for a fact those authors asked for help a couple of months back for their cover/blurb/etc., got tons of great advice, then blew it off and never made a single change--even when _several people_ pointed out the _same _problem. I think that's why we're seeing less people chiming in with cover/blurb help. Who wants to waste their time, knowing that it's usually ignored? Not that any of us have to take the have to take the advice of others--but when _seven _people tell you your cover title is unreadable or the picture is not appropriate for the genre you're writing for, you just might want to take that under serious consideration.

I'm not saying a person with single digit stats necessarily has a sucky book. I'm just saying it's usually an indicator of one or more problems. Whether it's an amateur cover, a poorly-written blurb, bad formatting, typos, or a combination of these, it tends to be pretty obvious (to me, anyway) when I check out those authors' books. It's not always the case--sometimes the books just aren't getting found, or are written for too small of a niche audience--but usually it's indicative of a problem(s).


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> I was just thinking about this recently. I've seen a few authors on Writer's Cafe bemoaning their negligible sales stats, when I know for a fact those authors asked for help a couple of months back for their cover/blurb/etc., got tons of great advice, then blew it off and never made a single change--even when _several people_ pointed out the _same _problem. I think that's why we're seeing less people chiming in with cover/blurb help. Who wants to waste their time, knowing that it's usually ignored? Not that any of us have to take the have to take the advice of others--but when _seven _people tell you your cover title is unreadable or the picture is not appropriate for the genre you're writing for, you just might want to take that under serious consideration.


Here here!! I've grown tired of those threads too; there are several people whose help threads I now actively ignore. However, I still enjoy helping those truly looking to make themselves better, especially when it comes to blurb or cover advice. I've learned, however, to stay the heck out of "Do I really need an editor?" threads!!!


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## Steve the Bear (Jun 28, 2011)

.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Writing erotic stories can be a hit and miss affair, depending on the subject matter. I mean, even a good title for a story can make a big difference. A good cover is essential and proper grammar is paramount. You could be the best writer out there but if your story is boring and un-erotic you might as well go back to your 9 to 5 job. Time is also an issue in the erotic story business, no one who writes erotica ever made it overnight. Therefore, patience and the ability to write good erotica is important. I have over 100 tales out there now, some novels, some novellas and loads of short stories. I'm now in a position 2 years down the road when I can afford to convert a few of my books into audio, which I recently did. It cost me almost $7,000 to convert six books, but to me that was an investment for my future.

My advice, keep writing and improving your skills and let the rest take care of itself. When you're confident enough write a trilogy, set the first at a low price to get their interest and the others will pay for it. If you ever get a book that seems to be popular write a follow up, but keep to the same format as the one before it.

Good luck to you all.

Carl


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## Marata Eros (Jul 23, 2011)

I sold around 300+ across Amazon/NOOK/SW. I don't know how that compares to others but I've been happy with the result. That was seven titles and one anthology. They were released each week but were not all available for the entire month. September will have all eight titles and two anthologies. That will be a truer representation of sales. Also, I keep hearing August is a bad book sales month...maybe September will improve?


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## Kent Kelly (Feb 12, 2011)

It's not how short the erotic story is, it's how you write it.  As long as your reader is happy, it doesn't matter how short it is!


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Steve Richer said:


> You know things are bad when you get a couple of sales on Smashwords and nothing on Amazon! I chalk it up to the back-to-school belt-tightening and time-suck.


Ugh. You just characterized my September so far: 4 sales, 2 each on BN and Smashwords.  I'll never get rid of that BBoS!!  



> Good luck with the price experimentation. FWIW, my erotica is in a popular niche and aside from last week I've had no problem selling at $2.99. My cheaper stuff is at $.99 and much more vanilla; it doesn't sell much.


My niche is pretty popular too from what I've seen and I intend to release more. I have some other ideas I want to pursue other than m/m as well, keeping it interesting!


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

Yes, they sell. I have twelve published on Amazon, Smashwords and OmniLit (ARe).

I have one short story that's a little over 7,000 words, and nine novellas (I label them as novelettes) that are between 10,000+ and 16,000+ words each. I price each at 99 cents.

There's one novel (50,000+ words) that's priced at $1.99.

I have two bundles (one is 40,000+ words, the other is 33,000+ words) and they're each priced at $2.99.

I put a really short story (2,000 words or so) in each of the bundles. I wouldn't sell them so I threw them in, rather than throw them out. If someone contacted me and complained I'd send them the story, no questions asked.

April was my first month doing this. After watching my sales numbers grow exponentially every month (and after seeing what I made in August), I'm going to stay with this formula. I think I'm reaching a wide audience and that's what I was looking for when I started. The sales numbers are exceeding the expectations I had when I started.

Try different methods with your books. Different things work for different people.


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

This is my first day of having Yes, Professor at $2.99.  The price changed about 6 hours ago, and I've already sold 4!    Last month I averaged about 27 of these stories per day, so we'll see if it's worth it, money-wise over the next few days.

So far, I'm excited, though!  I'll keep you guys in the loop .


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

For whatever reason all of my short stories (3k-7k) looked like they were full length novels on Amazon so last night I updated all of them (including my novelettes) and wrote the approximate word count under their blurbs. We'll see if this affects my sales. Last month I only had one return out of all of my titles and it was like 5 hours after they bought it - so plenty of time to read it and return it because it was about 4k words. And I hadn't received any angry/negative reviews about being mislead about the length vs price, but I was worried that might happen. Lets hope my honesty doesnt bite me in the butt.


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## Delta (Sep 3, 2011)

Thank you all for the good information in this thread. I wrote a fair number of erotic short stories, novellas and a novel back in the 90s and early years of this century. I've been thinking that, with the advent of Kindle, I might update them (I've become a better writer) and publish for money instead of just acclaim. This thread has pretty well decided me, so I became a member and look forward to interacting with you all.

Delta.


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Carl, 

I had no idea you had that many stories out there.  Wow.  So you started putting stories up two years ago?  Do you mind if I ask what your numbers had been like--then and now?  Are you seeing large numbers of sales now per story, or is it smaller numbers of sales for each story, that are just adding up to significant money now that you have 100 stories available for sale?


This thread has been so enlightening.  I see "do short stories sell?" threads every week, but this is the first one that I have found really helpful and inspiring.  It has really lit a fire under me to get some short stories out there.  I've been dragging my heels trying to get longer stories done, but I feel that shorter stories are easier for me to find the time to complete, and I have a feeling that if I can keep my momentum up, I'm going to be seeing some exciting results.  (I hope!)


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

I like short stories.  I like erotic short stories. I have bought erotic short stories. But I tend not to buy single short stories because I don't think they are a great value for my money. When I can get 5 shorts for 2.99, or even more for 99 cents, I am not paying 99 cents per story. It's my advise to anyone looking to sell short stories.  Bundle them.  But if you sell both single and bundle, make darn sure you mention in your bundle description that the shorts have been sold as singles. Readers who accidentally buy both will be very unhappy.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> Carl,
> 
> I had no idea you had that many stories out there. Wow. So you started putting stories up two years ago? Do you mind if I ask what your numbers had been like--then and now? Are you seeing large numbers of sales now per story, or is it smaller numbers of sales for each story, that are just adding up to significant money now that you have 100 stories available for sale?


Hi Juliette, on my first month at Amazon I made $50 from twelve short stories, it has gone up steadily ever since. In fact, I would have to say that time itself is the only thing that gets in your way. People have to discover you before they can buy your stories and with so many other titles to choose from it can be hard to get noticed. My short stories sell in the double figures, with the occasional one going ballistic, like my story "My Little Girl's Best Friend" which sold 3,000 in one month. Most of my bundles do well with three figure sales, but it's taken this long for my novel "Hell's Gate" to sell in any kind of decent numbers. As usual my advice to any erotic author is to simply keep plugging away and the rewards will follow.

All the best.

Carl


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Carl,

thank you for sharing your numbers.  3000 of one story in a single month?  Holy crap!  Don't know if I'd ever see those numbers, since my stuff is pretty vanilla, but it's interesting to hear about.  By the way, if I didn't tell you already, I think your Hell's Gate cover is far and away your best one. I had no idea you had so many books, since I only ever saw a few covers in your siggy.  Maybe you should put something in there like "10,000 stories sold, and counting...over 100 different stories to choose from" or something like that.  I knew you'd been around a while, but had no idea you were doing that well, or were that prolific.


Bleekness, 

That is the challenge of erotica.  There are only so many ways to describe sex.  The toughest part is what to call the (ahem) male appendage.  There are only so many names you can call it without it sounding silly in the middle of a sex scene, and unlike in romance novels, euphemisms don't cut it.  You have more leeway if you do the more graphic stuff.  For me, doing plain vanilla, I'm pretty limited.  So yeah, I worry about being able to keep coming up with new stuff.  My goal isn't to just titillate the reader...I actually want it to be written as well as any other part of the book, to develop the characters' relationship, and read as realistic as possible.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Wow, 3000 Carl, that's impressive, that would get me out of a fix here, big time... but of course we only have the one book for now (and maybe spawn out from that too, at least 3 separate story lines we can run with).  Of course, ours are nearly 40,000 words so it's a bit slower to write them 

...3000.... really nice.


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> Bleekness,
> 
> That is the challenge of erotica. There are only so many ways to describe sex. The toughest part is what to call the (ahem) male appendage. There are only so many names you can call it without it sounding silly in the middle of a sex scene, and unlike in romance novels, euphemisms don't cut it. You have more leeway if you do the more graphic stuff. For me, doing plain vanilla, I'm pretty limited. So yeah, I worry about being able to keep coming up with new stuff. My goal isn't to just titillate the reader...I actually want it to be written as well as any other part of the book, to develop the characters' relationship, and read as realistic as possible.


LOL!! Try juggling pronouns and descriptors when both (all three?!) of your main characters are the same sex. Trying to make sure you properly referenced which "he" you're indicating can be tough, but yes the, erm, _appendage_ appellations definitely take the cake.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Offtopic... but the "History Teacher" cover that Carl has, always seems to remind me of Sarah Palin


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

jackKate said:


> Offtopic... but the "History Teacher" cover that Carl has, always seems to remind me of Sarah Palin


If she was she'd have gotten my vote. lol

I was just checking to see how many books I've sold at smashwords from day one and the figure amazed me. I've sold 105,360 at smashwords including their affiliates and that doesn't include free books. Interestingly though, I have one free one over there that has been downloaded 55,000 times. My wife is working out how many I've sold at Amazon from day one, as I can't understand excel. lol

I'll let you know shortly.

Carl


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## Lisa Scott (Apr 4, 2011)

Margo Lerwill said:


> A question for those who have experience with bundling their stories...Do you ever have readers who are upset that they brought the stories singly only to see that you later released a bundle that was a little cheaper per story? I did see someone get upset over this (in a collection in another genre), but I wonder if it was because the author included a new story in the bundle that had never been released separately (and people who'd already bought the single stories had to buy the bundle just to get the one new story).


I don't write erotica, but I do sell bundled shorts. I release them individually and as a bundle at the same time. In my product description for the singles I say, "This is one of the stories from the collection Flirts! 5 Romantic short stories. Buy the whole collection for 2.99 or individual stories for .99." I haven't heard from anyone upset, but I do see higher than normal returns on some of the singles, often coming in at the same time a collection is sold. I didn't expect people to read a short, return it and then buy the collection, but that seems to happen sometimes. Honestly, I'd be happy if I never sold a single and everyone went straight to the collections. The royalty from one collection is almost the same as selling six shorts. But I sell a mix of both.


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## Ash Stirling (Mar 2, 2011)

Over 105K on Smashwords alone?  I'm certainly writing in the wrong field


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Up to date sales on Amazon equals 120,683 books, which doesn't include my free books. Yeah, go me. lol

Carl


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## Colette Riley (Jul 19, 2011)

Carl--that is AMAZING! Congrats! 

I'm new to the erotica field but in the last 6 weeks or so I've published 4 shorts (6000 words each) and have sold more than 100 copies. All are priced at 2.99. Outside of tagging, I've done very little promo. It probably helps that I'm writing in a niche (BDSM) but my stuff is quite a bit tamer than a lot of what can be found in that category.

This thread is very inspiring! I need to get my act in gear and bundle the shorts I have out already (they're a series) and get my next short and my novella out.


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## Colette Riley (Jul 19, 2011)

Question: does anyone use a professional editor for proofreading? If so, who?


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## Inara Stone (Aug 31, 2011)

Carl246 said:


> Up to date sales on Amazon equals 120,683 books, which doesn't include my free books. Yeah, go me. lol


Carl, that's incredible! And you're so quiet about it!


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Inara Stone said:


> Carl, that's incredible! And you're so quiet about it!


Not really, I just haven't bothered adding it all up until today. lol

Carl


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## Delta (Sep 3, 2011)

Bleekness said:


> And where you guys come up with it all!!! I wrote four scenes in my novella, and after that I was like... "Hmm... if I do a sequel, it's really only going to be more of the same."


The problem isn't 'more of the same' unless you write purely description. The real action is in the minds of the participants. You could have the same 'action', word for word, and tell many different stories. If a participant is experienced, that character may anticipate each new level of sensation where an inexperienced participant will greet those same levels with surprise and, perhaps, joy. A reluctant participant will react differently than an enthusiastic one to the same stimulae. Having a reluctant participant change to a full-blown enthusiastic one will tell a completely different story than having two participants 'just going through the motions' or an enthusiastic one becoming reluctant due to the baggage he or she brings to the scene. All of these different stories will affect the reader differently even if the exact same 'actions' are described.

'More of the same' doesn't enter into it when you, as writer, deal with rounded characters who have varying personalities, desires, dreams and baggage. All you have to do is write such that the readers invest in those same characters.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2011)

Well, it seems I may be hitting the right length with that 3K-7K range most are mentioning. I'm near the high end of that with BLISS KISS.

I know my cover is hot, but I'm a pretty new name with only one title so far. I expect things will pick up as I write more of Jaz's adventures. I'm hoping a series character is a good idea in erotica!

My biggest worry is whether my story is hot enough. I like to build character, too, because I am going for erotica rather than pure porn. And I get up in Jaz's head more than maybe some readers might like.

It's hard to know the exact balance, but Selena Kitt's kinda my model, so... I guess I can always amp up the hotness if that's what readers are looking for, in future installments.


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

Colette Riley said:


> Carl--that is AMAZING! Congrats!
> 
> I'm new to the erotica field but in the last 6 weeks or so I've published 4 shorts (6000 words each) and have sold more than 100 copies. All are priced at 2.99. Outside of tagging, I've done very little promo. It probably helps that I'm writing in a niche (BDSM) but my stuff is quite a bit tamer than a lot of what can be found in that category.
> 
> This thread is very inspiring! I need to get my act in gear and bundle the shorts I have out already (they're a series) and get my next short and my novella out.


This. Is. Awesome!!

I think I may have been pricing too low from the start! 

Here's the latest on my $2.99 experiment. Yes, Professor is 3000 words long, and I just put it up at 2.99 from 99 cents 3 days ago. Last month it sold an average of 27 copies/day, so I figured I'd need to sell 5 copies a day to net more money than last month at this new pricepoint.

So far, it's only been 2.5 days, and I've sold 26 at 2.99! Holy cow!  That's over 10 per day, which is more than double what I was making off this story last month. If this keeps up, I'll have the answer to how to make a better living at this. I'd only need to sell 40 books per day at 2.99 in order to quit my day job and make a living off this, and that seems very doable.

It's too soon to tell if this is a labor day weekend fluke, though, so I'll keep experimenting and let you guys know. Thanks, fellow writers!


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Congrats on the pricing success!! I cut mine short three days in: I had made three sales as of yesterday with my m/m/m short story at $1.99 across Smashwords and B&N. I probably should have waited a while longer but my Amazon BBoS wouldn't go away despite sales elsewhere. (in related news, I STILL have no sales at Amazon despite 3 today at B&N ). I'll try the higher price for my shorts when I have a few more available and a tad more name recognition (maybe around November). 



DelilahFawkes said:


> This. Is. Awesome!!
> 
> I think I may have been pricing too low from the start!
> 
> ...


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Carl246 said:


> If she was she'd have gotten my vote. lol
> 
> I was just checking to see how many books I've sold at smashwords from day one and the figure amazed me. I've sold 105,360 at smashwords including their affiliates and that doesn't include free books. Interestingly though, I have one free one over there that has been downloaded 55,000 times. My wife is working out how many I've sold at Amazon from day one, as I can't understand excel. lol
> I'll let you know shortly.
> Carl


Holy Crap!!! I had no idea anyone on here was selling that much. Carl, you HAVE to put that in your signature. That distinguishes you from the average joe who just started putting up stories. It could draw in even more sales for you. Like "Over 200,000 ebooks sold, not including the 55,000 downloaded freebies!" Or whatever your final sales total is.


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Ladyeclectic said:


> LOL!! Try juggling pronouns and descriptors when both (all three?!) of your main characters are the same sex. Trying to make sure you properly referenced which "he" you're indicating can be tough, but yes the, erm, _appendage_ appellations definitely take the cake.


ROFL, I have enough problems without having to come up with _three times_ the number of sexy appendage euphemisms!



Carl246 said:


> Up to date sales on Amazon equals 120,683 books, which doesn't include my free books. Yeah, go me. lol
> 
> Carl


        What the hell is in your books? How are you promoting them? Why haven't you been holding a class before now!! 



Carl246 said:


> Not really, I just haven't bothered adding it all up until today. lol
> 
> Carl


Carl, that's like Donald Trump saying he lost track of how many buildings he owned. I mean, you must have had kind of a clue when the money started rolling in!   I asked my husband the other day "how could he afford to spend $7000 on getting 6 books turned into audio books?" Question answered.  By the way, how are those selling? That's a format we haven't heard of other KB authors branching into.

Congratulations, Carl. I think it's safe to say that we, as a collective group of erotica writers, are bowing down to you. Time to write a John Locke-style book for us newbies. "How Kick *ss and Take Names in the Erotica Genre".



Delta said:


> The problem isn't 'more of the same' unless you write purely description. The real action is in the minds of the participants. You could have the same 'action', word for word, and tell many different stories.
> 
> 'More of the same' doesn't enter into it when you, as writer, deal with rounded characters who have varying personalities, desires, dreams and baggage. All you have to do is write such that the readers invest in those same characters.


Awesome point!



Lisa Scott said:


> In my product description for the singles I say, "This is one of the stories from the collection Flirts! 5 Romantic short stories. Buy the whole collection for 2.99 or individual stories for .99." I haven't heard from anyone upset, *but I do see higher than normal returns on some of the singles, often coming in at the same time a collection is sold.* I didn't expect people to read a short, return it and then buy the collection, but that seems to happen sometimes. Honestly, I'd be happy if I never sold a single and everyone went straight to the collections. The royalty from one collection is almost the same as selling six shorts. But I sell a mix of both.


I'd consider this a good thing. That's why I love Amazon's return policy. Now your readers can be happy that they're getting a deal on your collection, instead of mad that they just bought some of your books, right before a cheaper collection came out. Happy, loyal fans...awesome!


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Oh, someone had mentioned hiring an editor farther up the thread. The standard answer is yes--everyone, everyone, everyone needs and editor. Traditional books get multiple passes by multiple editors, and still have the occasional typo. YES you need an editor.

The bare minimum that should be done, for a truly quality book, is to edit the hell out of it yourself, then have an alpha reader (a spouse, friend, whatever) read it and tell you what is working and what isn't in the book (it's best if that person is well-read in your genre). Then edit some more. Then put it away for a minimum of six weeks, take it out and edit the hell out of it again. Then send it to your beta readers (critique partners, writing group, or others who have volunteered to help. Again, it helps if they're well-read in your genre). THEN you send it to a substantive editor, who will tell you what is/isn't working, point out inconsistencies, help with awkward wording, etc.. It should be near-perfect before giving it to an editor, otherwise you're wasting your money, because they charge by the hour or by the edit (never pay per mistake, always pay by the hour, or a fixed word-count rate). Make the necessary changes, then you send it to a line editor, make more changes and then send it to a proofreader. Make the final changes, pray you didn't create more mistakes when you changed your last mistakes, proofread it again, and then publish. That's still not close to what a regular book goes through, but it's as close as any of us can afford to get.

However, the fact is, most of us don't have the money for multiple passes by an editor. Or even one pass. If you are writing a novel, you really MUST get an editor and a professional cover artist. However, when writing a short story, it' doesn't make sense to do that, financially. So *IF* you have good spelling and grammar skills, with a short story you may be able to get away with doing it yourself, but at the very minimum you really should at least have a friend proofread it for you (who has good English, writing and reading skills, and isn't afraid to red-line the crap out of your book...in the nicest way possible, of course).

If you do not have extremely strong spelling and grammar skills, you need at least one pass by an editor. If not, do not put anything out until you are able to learn the skills needed, or can afford an editor. Otherwise, you're just embarrassing yourself, and will end up on here begging for advice as to why your book sold zero or maybe 2 copies, and you will hear crickets chirping as everyone strenuously avoids answering you, because they've all seen your blurb and sample and know your book is one hot mess! You *do not* want to be that person.

But again, for longer books, you MUST have at least one editor, in addition to crit partners, alpha and beta readers, etc. There's just no way to catch all the mistakes you'll make in a full-length novel without professional help. You WILL miss stuff. Even the pros do. Hope that helps!


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> *What the hell is in your books? How are you promoting them? Why haven't you been holding a class before now!! *
> 
> Erotica that turns people on, what can I say. lol
> 
> ...


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## Colette Riley (Jul 19, 2011)

All very good advice, Juliette. I completely agree about the need for professional editing services. I guess my question was less if an editor was necessary and more _who_, specifically, erotica writers are using. I would not feel at all comfortable asking my normal editor (who I use for my pen name) to work on my erotic pieces. I was hoping to get some names from you all if you know anyone who is comfortable editing erotica.


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Carl, I'm curious, when did you start publishing your stories? How long have you been selling your erotic shorts and compilations?


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## Colette Riley (Jul 19, 2011)

DelilahFawkes said:


> This. Is. Awesome!!
> 
> I think I may have been pricing too low from the start!
> 
> ...


Sounds great so far Deliah! Let us know how it goes!


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

Colette Riley said:


> All very good advice, Juliette. I completely agree about the need for professional editing services. I guess my question was less if an editor was necessary and more _who_, specifically, erotica writers are using. I would not feel at all comfortable asking my normal editor (who I use for my pen name) to work on my erotic pieces. I was hoping to get some names from you all if you know anyone who is comfortable editing erotica.


I'm comfortable editing erotica.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

Ladyeclectic said:


> Carl, I'm curious, when did you start publishing your stories? How long have you been selling your erotic shorts and compilations?


About two years ago and I started with erotica, I was one of the first to create bundles of my work.

Carl


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Tara Shuler said:


> I'm comfortable editing erotica.


Very cool! I may end up using you for my longer works eventually.


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Aaahh, I see.  Well, I can't say I know of anyone specifically who is okay with erotica.  I do know someone mentioned in an old thread the name of the Carina Press acquisitions editor, who does freelance on the side, but she's booked out way in advance, like maybe six months.  But she might be more amenable to it.  I'd suggest putting up a separate post, asking.  I'm sure a few freelance editors will pop up.


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## PatrickWalts (Jul 22, 2011)

I wrote one under a pen name and it's selling just fine.


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## Andre Xavier (Sep 5, 2011)

Hi

I've just put up a new erotic short story (three weeks ago) and so far I've sold four copies.

I don't know how long it takes for a new writer (to this genre) to make an impact, but I have to qualify by saying that my short is at a higher price ($2.99) and is set in the Victorian era, which may make a difference.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Ooh, how did I miss this thread?  Don't mind me - just sitting in with my filth


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2011)

Andre Xavier said:


> Hi
> 
> I've just put up a new erotic short story (three weeks ago) and so far I've sold four copies.


You're one ahead of me. So far...


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## elizagayle (Mar 9, 2011)

Just adding my two cents on what a great thread this has been. It's awesome to hear a variety of pricing strategies and all the talk about bundling. That's next on my to do list just as soon as I finish writing my current story. 

Yes, short stories do sell but I can't help but wonder by what meter the person who thought they didn't, was judging by. For some a couple of hundred is great and for others anything less than a thousand seems terrible. (I'm happy with a few hundred a month)

I self published my first two contemporary erotic short stories back in January and so far one has sold about 5000 copies and the other 4000. Since I have very little to compare my sales to, I figured that was mid level average. But combine that with 9 other self pubbed titles all selling modestly well and it really starts to add up.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

5000 in 8 months, that's nice going, very nice going 

I'm sitting on 30 since our release (Aug 15), not a lot really but it's not too bad compared to some of our other book releases.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2011)

jackKate said:


> 5000 in 8 months, that's nice going, very nice going
> 
> I'm sitting on 30 since our release (Aug 15), not a lot really but it's not too bad compared to some of our other book releases.


No Amazon release, only Smashwords, for PRETTY?

Wow, I just do Amazon and BN.com.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> No Amazon release, only Smashwords, for PRETTY?


Yes, just Smashwords. I think I might allow direct buying off the WWW site (SKB), as I'm sure there's quite a few people who don't want to have to go through the SW signup etc.


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## Nomadwoman (Aug 25, 2011)

Im an editor - English literature honours grad and I edit a travel newspaper in English in Argentina. I am very particular - there is never a typo in the paper.
But editors charge by the page usually rather than the hour - or maybe I just take a lot of breaks
besos


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## heartland (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey Carl, does your SW total include those you sell to the iBookstore or do you upload to Apple on your own?


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

heartland said:


> Hey Carl, does your SW total include those you sell to the iBookstore or do you upload to Apple on your own?


That includes Apple, as I go through SW to get to them. I saw my Apple report over at smashwords yesterday and I've earned $9,000 just from them this quarter, which I have to say is exciting news. My target audience is over at Apple, in great numbers, namely Young Adults. That's why I'm looking forward to seeing the new Kindle Tablet come out later this year, as my target audience will probably buy that in their thousands.

All the best.

Carl


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## bettymidnight (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow... look at the sales figures.  I hate asking "what's the secret?" but I'd love to know if anyone did anything...

I put up my first erotica (Katrina's Kiss) in July and have sold... 1

I put up WidowMan two weeks ago and have sold... 1

I'm not complaining... I've been out submitting for reviews, etc. the best I can, but is there any place to go as an erotica writer to promote work?  

I have a novel in the works right now, plus more shorts coming soon.  I was also tinkering with a small series - a novella trilogy.

~BM~


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## heartland (Jul 17, 2011)

Carl, that is awesome and inspiring, thank you for sharing that!  I hope in two years I am at your level of success.  My goal is to have many more titles out by the end of September.  Since I started, which was in June, I have not put out as many titles as I had intended.  I thought it was going to be easy to just churn out some erotica.  NOT so.  To create anything worth reading takes time and a LOT of creativity.  

Obviously you found the winning combination!


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## Vanessa Wu (Sep 5, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> Im an editor - English literature honours grad and I edit a travel newspaper in English in Argentina. I am very particular - there is never a typo in the paper.
> But editors charge by the page usually rather than the hour - or maybe I just take a lot of breaks
> besos


Even editors make mistakes, sometimes on their very first word. One of my ebooks still has an error in it. I'd better not say which. That's probably why sales are quiet.

Today I got an invitation to a blog tour from the editor-in-chief of a publishing company. The book blurb had a spelling error in it. Shameful.

When you're just about to have an orgasm the last thing you want is a dropped consonant or a loose vowel. I'd never buy a book from that author again.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

bettymidnight said:


> Wow... look at the sales figures. I hate asking "what's the secret?" but I'd love to know if anyone did anything...
> 
> I put up my first erotica (Katrina's Kiss) in July and have sold... 1
> 
> ...


Betty, trust me when I say it was the exact same thing for me. I didn't make the sales I'm making today overnight, it took almost a year just to reach $1,000 a month. Now a year further down the road and I'm retired and travelling on cruise ships. Take the time you have in front of you to write the best erotic stories you can write and the rewards will follow, in fact I'd like you to dig out this thread a year down the road just to tell us what happened on your journey, it will probably inspire others.

Good luck to you.

Carl


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

heartland said:


> Carl, that is awesome and inspiring, thank you for sharing that! I hope in two years I am at your level of success. My goal is to have many more titles out by the end of September. Since I started, which was in June, I have not put out as many titles as I had intended. I thought it was going to be easy to just churn out some erotica. NOT so. To create anything worth reading takes time and a LOT of creativity.
> 
> Obviously you found the winning combination!


Heartland, give me your email in a PM and I'll send you a copy of "Paranormal Encounters" you can see for yourself how I write. It does sound easy doesn't it and if you didn't mind second rate stuff it probably would be. It's good to hear that you are not just churning out second rate erotica because your fans will appreciate it in the long run. I have stories in my collection that I wish I'd never released, but one by one I've been improving them and re-releasing them. "The Haunted House" is a good example, that one was completely rewritten.

All the best.

Carl


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2011)

Nomadwoman said:


> Im an editor - English literature honours grad and I edit a travel newspaper in English in Argentina...


Not to be rude, but starting off your post by missing out on the apostrophe necessary in "I'm an editor" isn't the best calling card in the world to leave for editorial services... esp. for us erotica scribes who have so few editors to chose from anyway! 

I won't fault you for the British spelling of "honors" though...


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## heartland (Jul 17, 2011)

Thanks Carl, PM sent.  By the way, would you be willing to share which is your overall best selling title?  I have found with the title I have so far, that the ones I thought would be bestselling are not selling at all, and a few of the ones I didn't think were that good, actually sell the best.  Go figure!  LOL


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

heartland said:


> Thanks Carl, PM sent. By the way, would you be willing to share which is your overall best selling title? I have found with the title I have so far, that the ones I thought would be bestselling are not selling at all, and a few of the ones I didn't think were that good, actually sell the best. Go figure! LOL


My best selling title is "The Erotic Bundle" I sell a couple of thousand of that one every month. My biggest selling single short story was "My Little Girl's Best Friend" which sold 3,000 in one month. What you say happens to me all the time. I recently released a love story called "Love can be blind" I'm selling 2 a week, even though it's a tear jerker and supposedly a popular genre. Go figure.

Carl


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

Don't believe whoever told you that  All of my erotic books are between 10k-22k (I currently have 8 out right now) and I sell about a hundred copies a day of 5 of them. Those 5 are in the top 100. 2 others sell between 25-45 a day, and I just released the 8th today. It's sold a handful already. 

There is very high demand for erotic short stories/novellas, and you'll notice as you search the lists that the price points are a little higher, so don't be scared off to get your story out there. I will say that it's probably better to wait and publish until you have at least 3 stories ready to download. The more titles you have available, the more likely you'll be noticed in a pretty saturated genre.


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## Polly J Adams (Sep 3, 2011)

With my first collection just out, this has been a really encouraging and inspiring thread. Thank you!


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2011)

heartland said:


> Thanks Carl, PM sent. By the way, would you be willing to share which is your overall best selling title? I have found with the title I have so far, that the ones I thought would be bestselling are not selling at all, and a few of the ones I didn't think were that good, actually sell the best. Go figure! LOL


Amy,

Just noticed you're book, looks like we like writing about similar themes. So I sent you some Twitter love!  Hope it helps, us 99-cent sisters gotta stick together...


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

Colette Riley said:


> All very good advice, Juliette. I completely agree about the need for professional editing services. I guess my question was less if an editor was necessary and more _who_, specifically, erotica writers are using. I would not feel at all comfortable asking my normal editor (who I use for my pen name) to work on my erotic pieces. I was hoping to get some names from you all if you know anyone who is comfortable editing erotica.


I also edit erotica short stories, for what it's worth . My flat rates are in the yellowpages on this board.


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Carl, 

That's why I'm excited about the new Kindle Tablet--sales are going to go crazy in January!  There are also rumors that they're coming out with a lower priced Kindle, but I haven't heard any confirmation of that.  When Amazon does finally put out a $99 Kindle, things will really go through the roof.  I'm hoping that's this Christmas season.  Which is why I need to work my butt off to get a backlist out there.  I'm going to try to put out a story a week.  I don't know if I'll be able to do it, but I'm going to try.  I at least want two stories out per month.  But I'd rather have three really good stories than ten half-assed stories.  And no, I don't mean that in an erotic sense.  


Nomadwoman, 

I don't know how it's been done historically, but there are a lot of freelance editors out there trying to charge a reading fee plus a per-error charge. Which is bogus, because if they're real perfectionists, they can rack up a bundle for themselves.  For instance, they could count the word "ain't" as a mistake, even though you put it in there deliberately, because that's the way your character talks.  I think they're doing that because they're being hired by indies who, in some cases, are handing in total crap laden with 4th grade level mistakes, and taking the editor 3 times as long to work on. 

Charging per page is probably a fair way to go.  I've seen several charging a certain amount for books within a certain word-count range.  


And let's cut Nomadwoman some slack.  She's off duty--she's not being paid for perfection right now.    I make typos in here all the time, and I do edit my posts (believe it or not   ) but I'm still not giving forum posts the same attention to detail as a final draft.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

We're going to have a shot at a couple of 5k short stories with a strong level of sex in them, it'll be fun stuff, nothing serious (unlike PWSC), curious to see how they work out.  Since we're already pumping out 10~20k words on some books that we find hit dead ends (either story wise of desire-to-write wise) we figured it can't hurt to give it a shot.  Already have a couple of potential covers picked out


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

LexyHarper said:


> Erotic short stories sell particularly well. Sometimes readers ust want a quick 'sexual high' before release and these are perfect for the job!


Will certainly be interesting - hopefully we won't get calls to be "sent to jail" with these ones (oh the joys of those 1* B&N reviews). That said, I think doing ~5k shorts can be quite hard at times too, especially if you're used to 40~70k to map out the story.


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## Carl246 (Apr 10, 2011)

heartland said:


> Carl, that is awesome and inspiring, thank you for sharing that! I hope in two years I am at your level of success. My goal is to have many more titles out by the end of September. Since I started, which was in June, I have not put out as many titles as I had intended. I thought it was going to be easy to just churn out some erotica. NOT so. To create anything worth reading takes time and a LOT of creativity.
> 
> Obviously you found the winning combination!


I could quite easily write a short story every day of the month, but most of it would be crap. At present I release about one or two a month and I go out of my way to make sure that they are good reads, and whenever possible original ones as well. In fact, I'm finding it harder and harder to come up with original story lines, I mean anyone can write sex scenes but to make it erotic to the reader is the hard part. I want the reader to enjoy that one scene, they didn't see coming.

Carl


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## Vanessa Wu (Sep 5, 2011)

jackKate said:


> Will certainly be interesting - hopefully we won't get calls to be "sent to jail" with these ones (oh the joys of those 1* B&N reviews). That said, I think doing ~5k shorts can be quite hard at times too, especially if you're used to 40~70k to map out the story.


 Don't sell out, Sarah Kate!! Keep on writing hot hardcore dirty gritty sex novels please!!


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Vanessa Wu said:


> Don't sell out, Sarah Kate!! Keep on writing hot hardcore dirty gritty sex novels please!!


I'm sure we'll continue to write those, but we're also curious to do some more experimentation - it's possible our 5k short stories will be a big fat flop, but it's fun to try


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## Vanessa Wu (Sep 5, 2011)

Oh yes, lots of things are fun to try. By the way, I'm getting some hits on my blog from people looking for free Sarah Kate books. People want to read you, Sarah Kate. They just can't afford you.

My advice: price yourself high. For what you offer, people should definitely pay to get in.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Vanessa Wu said:


> Oh yes, lots of things are fun to try. By the way, I'm getting some hits on my blog from people looking for free Sarah Kate books. People want to read you, Sarah Kate. They just can't afford you.


We were talking about moving to $3.99, which is still acceptable for erotica type books of 39,000 words or so.

There has been a lot of emails coming through here from people asking to talk about the whole Amazon banning and the backlash on B&N, it's been great


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## Vanessa Wu (Sep 5, 2011)

When your brain is woozy with wine and your eyes are misty with lust, you don't notice the price anyway. Or so I'm told.

Maybe I should break my book down into 15 short stories and sell each of them for $3.99?

Nah, I'm an artist. For me the reward is the heartfelt words of praise I get from appreciative readers.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2011)

Just a note on my erotic short: I'm raising the price of BLISS KISS to $2.99, but if you're speedy, you might still be able to get it at Amazon and BN.com for 99 cents.


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## Juliette Dupree (Jul 12, 2011)

Carl246 said:


> I could quite easily write a short story every day of the month, but most of it would be crap. At present I release about one or two a month and I go out of my way to make sure that they are good reads, and whenever possible original ones as well. In fact, I'm finding it harder and harder to come up with original story lines, I mean anyone can write sex scenes but to make it erotic to the reader is the hard part. I want the reader to enjoy that one scene, they didn't see coming.
> 
> Carl


So true. I think it would be hard to put out more stories than that per month and still keep up the quality. However, I don't judge those who are able to put stories out faster. If they are single and not working long hours, it would be soooo much easier to put out more stories than it is for someone like me. _Public Display of Arousal_ is taking _much_ longer to re-write than I anticipated, but as you said, I don't want it to just be about a sex scene. For this story it's definitely the wind-up that is the most intense part, and that's the way I like it. (Actually, I think that's the way _most_ women like it.  )

By the way, although some people might not be crazy about erotica writers posting a lot, especially asking about sales...but I notice _this is one of the most-read threads in recent history_. I know there aren't nearly that many erotica writers on here, even if you take into account the fact that we're each reading it mutiple times. So there are quite a few curious onlookers.


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## Sara Pierce (May 15, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> So true. I think it would be hard to put out more stories than that per month and still keep up the quality. However, I don't judge those who are able to put stories out faster. If they are single and not working long hours, it would be soooo much easier to put out more stories than it is for someone like me. _Public Display of Arousal_ is taking _much_ longer to re-write than I anticipated, but as you said, I don't want it to just be about a sex scene. For this story it's definitely the wind-up that is the most intense part, and that's the way I like it. (Actually, I think that's the way _most_ women like it.  )


My writing pace is usually about 1k words (give or take a couple hundred words either way) every hour. However, whenever I'm doing erotica that pace slows to a crawl because you have to really _think_ about what's going on. Sex scenes are like action scenes: there has to be a fluid flow to them, a progression of events leading to a climax (no pun intended... okay, yeah, intended  ). Instead of taking 80k words however you have to do it in one scene, maybe 3-5k (or more) words. It's the nature of these type of scenes anyway, but to race through it would do it an injustice no matter how "good" you are at writing them.

A short takes me about 2-3 days minimum as I like to think about what I'm writing as I do it. Obviously I edit after that (I'm totally an adder, and am adamant about my personaly 4-sentence paragraph rule) which may change and add bits and pieces. It's so weird: short stories used to be so difficult for me, but I see them as short scenes now, tiny pieces to a larger story. Continuing that story used to be my hangup - I didn't know when to stop - but short stories really are liberating and prove that, yes, you CAN finish something.

Blah. Not on the original topic, but for anyone who thinks writing erotica (GOOD, readable erotica) is easy should try it sometime.


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## jackKate (Aug 7, 2011)

Ladyeclectic said:


> Blah. Not on the original topic, but for anyone who thinks writing erotica (GOOD, readable erotica) is easy should try it sometime.


A shame you cannot write it like software...

initiate
strip(obstructions)
while (!orgasm) do
move in
if (random) moan "Oh yes"
move out
done

I think I've just created geek porn.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> If they are single and not working long hours, it would be soooo much easier to put out more stories than it is for someone like me.


Juliette, I hear you. I can manage about 1K words on an average day, but boy has this summer sucked the average out of my days. Between work, The Renovation That Will Never End, and a lot of wonderful family things going on, I've been lucky to write 1K words a week lately. I'd planned to have my second short story out by now, but though I've finished the first draft (and it grew into a novella, yay), it's tapping its foot at me from my hard drive at the moment. Soon, dear wip, soon.


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## dominique.sloane (Jul 21, 2011)

I only have the one short story published through Amazon so far - it is not selling as well as I would have liked it to, but I know there is potential there. I am currently working on a few more stories to publish and hoping to have the drive to publish a new one every other week or so. Not sure if you can make a living writing erotic stories, but I'm going to try to find out..


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2011)

As someone with only three eBooks out, I guess I'm doing okay.

Not making a living yet, but that takes a while.


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## Artemis Hunt (Aug 23, 2011)

Ironically, it was this thread that spawned me to write some erotic short stories, the first I have ever written in my life. I take approximately 6 hours to write each of them. 

In the span of the last 3 weeks or less, I have cranked out 4 under another pen name. The first I sold at 99 cents. Stories 2,3,4 are sold at $2.99. I maximized my distribution channels to include All Romance EBooks and Bookstrand. Each story is around 5500 words.

In the last 3 weeks, I have sold 613 books this month alone. 3 of those shorts have become All Romance Ebooks bestsellers. I don't know if this will continue....but I sure am stoked. I'm on my way to earning more than $800 this month.

My conclusion? Erotic shorts sell, and they also sell at a higher price point.


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## CDChristian (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks for sharing your experience, Artemis. It's great info to read.


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## GerrieFerrisFinger (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't write erotica, but since it's axiomatic that sex sells, my guess is YES!


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## lynnduvana (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm new to writing erotica but the books I have out right now sell decently. Enough to make me want to continue writing erotica.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2011)

lynnduvana said:


> I'm new to writing erotica but the books I have out right now sell decently. Enough to make me want to continue writing erotica.


With only two titles out, you're doing well to reach that level.  You'll accumulate more. (Both titles and sales.)


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## Artemis Hunt (Aug 23, 2011)

UPDATE: Since I started writing erotic short stories 5 weeks ago, I have sold around 2340 stories, mostly at $2.99 each and made well above $3000. So yes! I'm stoked to continue writing erotica!


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## AFernandez (Oct 13, 2011)

Juliette Dupree said:


> I don't know how it's been done historically, but there are a lot of freelance editors out there trying to charge a reading fee plus a per-error charge. Which is bogus, because if they're real perfectionists, they can rack up a bundle for themselves. For instance, they could count the word "ain't" as a mistake, even though you put it in there deliberately, because that's the way your character talks. I think they're doing that because they're being hired by indies who, in some cases, are handing in total crap laden with 4th grade level mistakes, and taking the editor 3 times as long to work on.


I know of only one person who does that and he is a scammer. 
A prenegotiated fixed rate (pay per hour/word/page) is the norm.
[shameless plug] I edit erotic stories, including every fetish imaginable.  [/shameless plug]


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## Lilah (Nov 15, 2011)

This was my question also. I've only put up one short story so far (7k), but I've been having sales way beyond my expectations. I'm averaging $5 a day- even after I cut my prices to 99 cents- with no advertising and only one short story on the market.

I know that seems kind of pathetic, but since I only spent about 3 days working on the story and no one has even heard of my pen name, it's impressive to me. I'm hoping this means that once I have a few titles up, I'll sell exponentially more.

Soon, soon.....


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## Vanessa Wu (Sep 5, 2011)

I've been at it every spare moment since the summer. I almost fainted from exhaustion in the office at the end of August. My readers send me very sweet messages on Twitter and tell me they adore what I do. But I make very little money. In fact you could say I'm making a loss, if I deduct the cost of stationery, lip gloss and lube.


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## AFernandez (Oct 13, 2011)

I don't advertise my erotica here. Two reasons for that:
- I don't think people are going to want to buy erotic short sories from me/my pen name just because they see me posting. It's different in other genres, but the whole "trust/connection = sales" dynamic sems weird when it comes to sex. I know I certainly don't want to know who the author is when reading it. 
- If it's on the internet, it stays on the internet forever. Someone at some point in the future could use it against me. As long as there are people who have a problem with erotica, it's just an unnecesary risk.


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## Lilah (Nov 15, 2011)

I hear you. There's a reason all of my accounts are under my pen name, and nothing here is from my 'real' writing career.

On the other hand, in my week of experience, I can say that erotic shorts really do sell. Surprisingly well.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

This thread is so convincing. I had a rather wild youth. Maybe I can draw a few erotic stories from it, which, with some imagination, may be worth selling? 

Ah, choices, choices. So little time!

* goes off to invent yet another pen name *


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## Lilah (Nov 15, 2011)

I feel I should point out that all erotica writers should be posting their stuff to All Romance. I keep finding only disparaging things said about the site, but I have only good things to say:

-Your book is instantly for sale, the minute you upload it.
-Readers are there looking for EXACTLY what you are selling, instead of getting distracted.
-The staff is really nice and easy to work with, and really prompt in their communications.
-60% royalties even at 99 cents

On top of all that, I've been selling FIVE TIMES as many books there as on amazon.

Also, most of the readers there want PDF, so make sure that's one of your formats. I'd say 60% of my sales have been PDF, with the rest spread out on epub, .lit and .mobi.


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## SamanthaSands (Dec 12, 2011)

Hi Fellow Eroticists (is that a word?)

Thanks to this thread and others like it, I recently placed three erotic books up on Amazon. Today, the first in the series is Free. Grab your copy of Mr. X Games, Slow Torture while you can. I'm also considering the bundle route without waiting for one month to do so. Any insight?

Samantha


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

Lilah said:


> Also, most of the readers there want PDF, so make sure that's one of your formats. I'd say 60% of my sales have been PDF, with the rest spread out on epub, .lit and .mobi.


Lilah, when you make a pdf for ARE, do you just use the Word file as is (8.5 x 11 inches)? It's been bugging me to do that because of how awful it is to read a pdf on either of my e-readers, but then I suppose using a smaller page size for people with e-readers would be kind of silly, since those people would probably be downloading the epub or mobi versions.

I think I just answered my own question.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

This thread's very interesting and convincing. I've dabbled in writing erotica in the past (and by now, who hasn't). I even had a piece published online a ways back through a small publisher. Thing is, I wrote it because of a dare my hubby made. He told me to write outside my comfort zone, so I went way, way out  I'd considered writing erotica, if only to help fund my fantasy novels, but...what if it takes off? I can't just write a few stories and then ditch my readers. I'd feel terrible.

I'm not saying I'd want to flop, but since erotica works as shorts, readers can devour what you write pretty fast. To keep readers sated, how often would you suggest putting out a short between 2,000 and 7,000 words?


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

E. S. Lark said:


> I'm not saying I'd want to flop, but since erotica works as shorts, readers can devour what you write pretty fast. To keep readers sated, how often would you suggest putting out a short between 2,000 and 7,000 words?


Some erotica authors I know try to publish a short story a week, but I keep hearing they burn out after several months. Some people say one a month is a more realistic goal. My publisher has put out two titles for me this year (10,000 and 26,000 words). It really depends on you, on how and what you write. Are you a fast writer or a slow one? Do you edit and revise extensively? By erotica do you mean a meaty, well-developed story driven by the sexual storyline, or do you mean graphic accounts of sexual encounters? I believe readers of any genre will remain fans if your books hit them in the right spot, even if they have to wait awhile between releases.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, Aislynn.

My shorts aren't meaty, but they aren't bare bones either. I give readers enough storyline and descriptions to heat them up. I guess the best way to describe my shorts are something a couple could read together as something of a warm-up exercise. Then, because they're so short, the same couple can move on to couple-type things


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

E. S. Lark said:


> Thanks for the reply, Aislynn.
> 
> My shorts aren't meaty, but they aren't bare bones either. I give readers enough storyline and descriptions to heat them up. I guess the best way to describe my shorts are something a couple could read together as something of a warm-up exercise. Then, because they're so short, the same couple can move on to couple-type things


Oh, that sounds intriguing. If you can swing it mentally, emotionally, and quality-wise, try to put out titles in rather short succession. Quality is more important that speed, though. Heh-heh.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Thank you, Aislynn. I'm actually working on one now that has me somewhat...errrm...compromised? 

I forgot how fun these can be to write, even if we do kind of torture ourselves. I found the perfect stock for the cover as well. I just need to finish it, cool down, editing it and then see what the hubby says.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

E. S. Lark said:


> Thank you, Aislynn. I'm actually working on one now that has me somewhat...errrm...compromised?
> 
> I forgot how fun these can be to write, even if we do kind of torture ourselves. I found the perfect stock for the cover as well. I just need to finish it, cool down, editing it and then see what the hubby says.


That's exactly as it should be, lol.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

I tend to believe it.

On a somewhat related note...do erotic writers ever get...desensitized from their own writing? I was talking to the hubby on the phone, and I just cannot see myself doing this for 50-60,000 words. I mean, I enjoy it but geeze, I'd need a lot of breaks.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

E. S. Lark said:


> On a somewhat related note...do erotic writers ever get...desensitized from their own writing? I was talking to the hubby on the phone, and I just cannot see myself doing this for 50-60,000 words. I mean, I enjoy it but geeze, I'd need a lot of breaks.


It's difficult to maintain that state of mind (and body, if you're really getting into what you're writing) for a long time, yes. I certainly need breaks. And having a significant other around helps quite a bit.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

TattooedWriter said:


> I guess that applies to all genres though and not just erotica?


To some extent. I think writing erotica makes you more physically involved, though. With any genre, you can have a racing pulse, tense muscles, and what have you, but with erotica, you're also spending hours at a time in a highly aroused sexual state. I'm not saying that's not a lot of fun, mind you.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Sadly, the hubby is away for another 3 hours. But I am almost done the draft for the piece I began this morning. It's strange. It came to mind as I was making tea this morning, and whenever I try to close down word, another sentence or two comes to mind for it. I love when stories write themselves, even if this one is a quickie.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Try it...you might just like it.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

E. S. Lark said:


> Sadly, the hubby is away for another 3 hours. But I am almost done the draft for the piece I began this morning. It's strange. It came to mind as I was making tea this morning, and whenever I try to close down word, another sentence or two comes to mind for it. I love when stories write themselves, even if this one is a quickie.


Those are the best sort. 



TattooedWriter said:


> *considers writing in a new genre*


Ha-ha, welcome to the dark side!


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

TattooedWriter said:


> Why does that sound ominous?


Because it makes you think of the bad guys in the Star Wars movies? Who, I'm sure, got up to all sorts of erotic high jinks. And that's another thread altogether.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Star Wars erotica? Heck, I'd give it a shot  

Finished the rough draft. Reading over it, it feels sucky to me, even though I felt different while writing it. I think I'm just sexually worn out  Think is, my MC's parnet has no name so I'm kind of limited in what to call him.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

E. S. Lark said:


> Star Wars erotica? Heck, I'd give it a shot
> 
> Finished the rough draft. Reading over it, it feels sucky to me, even though I felt different while writing it. I think I'm just sexually worn out  Think is, my MC's parnet has no name so I'm kind of limited in what to call him.


Darth Vader Does Dallas? Hee-hee!.

Your MC's . . . what?


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

MC's a female who shares her services with other men. But her favorite client prefers it if she doesn't know his name or what he looks like.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Aislynn Archer said:


> To some extent. I think writing erotica makes you more physically involved, though. With any genre, you can have a racing pulse, tense muscles, and what have you, but with erotica, you're also spending hours at a time in a highly aroused sexual state. I'm not saying that's not a lot of fun, mind you.


I am so writing the wrong genre...


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Krista, I say it's good in small doses, but I think I need a few days off before I do this again  I'm so bad that I get heated just from writing a passionate kissing scene between two of my characters in my fantasy novels


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## RubyGoodnight (Dec 9, 2011)

I definitely needed to take a few breaks writing my last story. A bit of a breather now until the next one starts getting typed up. 

As far as sales go - my first book has been up a week and I've sold 10 copies (7 .com's and 3 .co.uk's). From what I've heard, that's not a bad start?


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

Compared to my fantasy sales, it isn't bad at all. I know most authors on here say 4-8 sales in the first month is the norm, but I know erotica works differently. I just don't know enough about the genre to answer.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

My other identity writes in another genre, and her sales aren't anywhere near what mine are (not that mine are through the roof, though), but in the first month, with one title out each, we were about even.


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## MichMasoch (Dec 1, 2011)

This thread has made me so excited, I may have to whip out a WiP and let my pulse race a while. 

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences with selling erotica shorts. I have 5 or 6 stories I banged out for one of our websites, mainly as inspiration for the models and companions for photo sets, that I'm expanding and polishing up to publish before I start work on the book rattling around my head. It's certainly inspiring to know that, if all goes well, the rewards will be worth the effort. Hopefully, they can fund the time I'l spend writing the novel ... a girl can hope, at least.


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## imogen (Dec 13, 2011)

Hi Everyone

Lurking on this thread inspired me to finally get off my behind and get writing! It's really great that so many of you take the time and make the effort to provide such good information and support. 

It's early days for me - I've just put my first short story up on Smashwords (still waiting for Amazon to approve it for KDP), but I've had a few sales already, which is a good start.

Thanks so much, to all of you.

-- Im


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm doing pretty well for a gal who writes too slow. LOL.

I have seven books out. Four short stories in the 5K range. One collection in the 20K range. Then two longer stories in the 10K range.

I'm about to release my next longish short story, just under 9K long. And a second collection, around 29-30K long.

So that'll bump my titles total to nine. Hoping to get a couple more out this month after that, and one in February, at least. Plus a collection in February. Which will bring me to 13 titles, hopefully, by the end of February.

I must be doing something right, though; I am hauling in $120 so far this month, so I'm looking at my first $200 month, at worst. I hope....


Sarah


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## Boris Brannigan (Jan 30, 2012)

AFernandez said:


> I don't advertise my erotica here. Two reasons for that:
> - I don't think people are going to want to buy erotic short sories from me/my pen name just because they see me posting. It's different in other genres, but the whole "trust/connection = sales" dynamic sems weird when it comes to sex. I know I certainly don't want to know who the author is when reading it.
> - If it's on the internet, it stays on the internet forever. Someone at some point in the future could use it against me. As long as there are people who have a problem with erotica, it's just an unnecesary risk.


Then how do you get the word out?

Any suggestions for gay erotica?


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## MichaelEgon (Jul 25, 2011)

Just because you write an "erotica" story doesn't mean it's going to sell. But go ahead, anyway. Indulge your hubris. Take your idea for a story and sprinkle in a bit of sex and voila, erotica, and you can get rich quick.

After all, every Tom, Dick, and hussey with a poorly selling sci fi/fantasy/vampire/paranormal/urban/zombie/mystery/romance is jumping on the erotica bandwagon, so join them. 

Writing erotica is the panacea for all writing ills and you can retire in six months. Go for it.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

Hostility much?

Erotica's not "easy money" by any means. But there is a dedicated audience that's hungry for it, so if you can do a good job at it, you can start making some money if you work your tail off for a year or two.

Last month (January) I passed $250 in sales on Amazon for the first time. With nine books out. My tenth is about to go up. My goal is to have about 30 titles out there by the end of the year.

If I meet my goal, I'll have written close to 240,000 words in about a year's time. That's two lengthy novels' worth of writing; that's no small feat.

One good side of erotica is that if you write it well, you can write short stories and novelettes and get a bunch of titles out, and the larger your shelf of titles, the better you do. And erotica readers don't complain as much about ebook prices, so that can be a plus.

But they'll complain just like anyone else about bad writing, poor editing and the like; but not so much via reviews. They just decide not to buy your other stuff. Which is just as bad.

But anyone who thinks writing erotica is easy hasn't tried writing it and writing it well.

And anyone who thinks it's a get-rich-quick scheme, get over yourselves. There's no such thing.

Like most writers, those who do well in erotica work their tails off for a few years before they become "overnight successes."


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> Hostility much?
> 
> Erotica's not "easy money" by any means. But anyone who thinks writing erotica is easy hasn't tried writing it and writing it well. And anyone who thinks it's a get-rich-quick scheme, get over yourselves. There's no such thing.


Sarah, I'm almost positive Michael's sarcasm was intended for the people who think it's easy money, not the people who take it a bit more seriously. He's saying the same thing you are.


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## Lady TL Jennings (Dec 8, 2011)

Margo Lerwill said:


> A question for those who have experience with bundling their stories...Do you ever have readers who are upset that they brought the stories singly only to see that you later released a bundle that was a little cheaper per story? I did see someone get upset over this (in a collection in another genre), but I wonder if it was because the author included a new story in the bundle that had never been released separately (and people who'd already bought the single stories had to buy the bundle just to get the one new story).


I release my stories one by one and then gather them to a collection. That way my readers can always look forward to a new story about every second week or so. I suppose some people wait until the collection is fininshed, while other like to have the stories as single stories. I write historical romance and erotica with a gothic touch and I think some readers like to hand pick their stories, like chocolate in a sweet shop...

My first collection "Lust and Lace" contains eight short stories (about 2500 words each) and my second collection "Corsets and Cravings" contains five stories (about 4500-5500 words). They both tend to sell overall similar. So far no one has ever complained, but I write out "short story" already in the title and write the word count clearly and generally my returns are lower than average, which I take as a good sign.

I am ridicoulous happy that anyone reads my stories and almost giddy over the fact that people would acctually pay for them, which for you more experienced writer out there may perhaps sound silly...

Good luck with your writing!
_
/ Lady T. L. Jennings_


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## Peter Rex (Feb 21, 2012)

May I ask a question?

I see that a lot of covers are made from/with stockphotos, is there a reason why nobody uses "hand tailored" computer graphics (by using Poser or DAZ-Studio) to create a cover that really shows a scene from the story inside?

Just curious!


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## Jorja Tabu (Feb 6, 2012)

I. Love. This. Thread.

Thank you so much to everyone who posted in it--where did you go?  Did you try select?  Are you smoking in the boy's room?  Can I come?


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## Spirit Flame (Feb 28, 2012)

First of all *Carl246* you are my role model! If I can emulate just a small fraction of the inspiring results you have achieved, I will be a happy man! 

I am just a few small weeks away from releasing my first erotic short. It's thanks to KB and threads like this that I have found the inspiration to write and publish.

My first short is going to be slightly over 5k (half of that devoted to one big scene). I'm aiming at $1.99 or there abouts, but I might go slightly higher. 
I will have to re-introduce myself as the my erotica titles will be under a pen name.

I'm aiming for upwards of 30 shorts and I know it will be a challenge. However I'm hoping that with each book it will be a shorter development process. This debut title is a learning curve which I am documenting at increments to for future reference.

What do I want to achieve?

Success. I'm hoping to write the most erotic sexually charged stories I can muster! I've researched erotic writing across the internet and continue to learn and find new inspiration all the time. 
I am choosing initially a plain vanila but fully descriptive approach from one perspective.

Writing erotica is challenging because (optional story aside) you have to choreograph something that engages/arouses the audience without falling flat and at the same time being plausible. 
I hate it when I read other authors scoffing at Erotic writers and proclaiming that anybody can write erotica.

Anybody can attempt any kind of writing period! But where erotica writers differ is that we have to transcend from the "Story" level to that other level that is inherent in all adult people. We don't do fade to black, It's inside that black that our creativity breaks through the concience. Adding sexuality, desire and motivation to character development? Staying within boundaries or branching out? 
I would dare say that writing good erotica is therefore more challenging than describing mundane locomotion for descriptions sake.

The fact that erotica attracts a premium price and has a more unique marketing environment compensates the boldness and creativity it takes for people to write in that genre.

Anyway, I intend to be a prolific erotic short writer and I treasure gatherings in threads like this for inspirations!

Success to all!


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## SwordJazz (Mar 15, 2012)

I am finishing the third story in the series I have up on amazon. 

I am not selling hundreds a month like many erotica writers, but being April my first full month I am satisfied with 8 sales between both since I got out of the 2days-free kindle select promotion.

I get inspired reading other erotica writers comments.


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## nathangrant (Nov 28, 2011)

This truly is a great thread; my books are doing well and on top of that, they are fun to write!

Nathan


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## Lily Mia (Apr 24, 2012)

I've recently published my first erotica short and look forward to learning lots from here!


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## Testimony (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm looking at getting started in this genre, and I have a few questions that might be relevant.

Which seems to sell more, male viewpoint or female viewpoint or 3rd person?  Has anyone experimented with 2 out of 3 or all of these viewpoints?

Say I want to publish a set about an open/cuckold type relationship, but then turn around and write another set about BDSM, then another set in another fetish genre...would it be better to keep the same pen name or to publish each under a different one?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Testimony said:


> Which seems to sell more, male viewpoint or female viewpoint or 3rd person? Has anyone experimented with 2 out of 3 or all of these viewpoints?


I see consistent sales across both male and female viewpoints, and almost all of my short stories are told in first person. In my opinion, it gives the reader a more intimate perspective. Then again, I've heard some readers claim they stop reading when they see it's first person.



Testimony said:


> Say I want to publish a set about an open/cuckold type relationship, but then turn around and write another set about BDSM, then another set in another fetish genre...would it be better to keep the same pen name or to publish each under a different one?


There are advantages and drawbacks to both. The best way to make money in erotica is to write a lot of (good) stories. The more stories you have out there, the more visible you become, and it will drive the sale of your other books.

If you publish under multiple pen names, and spread the stories around, then it's going to be that much harder to reach that point of visibility with the number of titles.

However, if you publish various genres under the same pen name, you risk alienating your readers, because someone who likes one genre may despise another one. If you do decide to use the same pen name, I would strongly suggest branding your different genres differently, so your readers have a visual clue to what's inside.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Publish with the same pen name. The best advertising is the weird critical mass you get from the bought/also bought and also by author lists.

I think the only exception I'd make to that is if you have something that's really close to erotic romance _and_ you want to break into that genre with a publisher. Then it might make sense to use a different pen name if you're writing really out there stuff.

BTW cranking out 3-7k erotica shorts sounds a whole lot easier than it is.


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## Paranormal Piper (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm totally excited to see how well other erotica writers are doing. I'll be thrilled if I can do as half as well as some of you.

Oh *waves*, I'm MJ, a longtime KB lurker that finally decided to step out of the shadows. I figured if I'm going to publish stories about people banging other people, then being brave enough to introduce myself on the forum should be a piece of cake


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

*waves*   Hi, MJ!

And Michael's right, it's not a get rich quick genre that will allow you to retire in 6 months. After all, it took me 9 months to retire .

The beauty of this genre is that if you have a lot of stories and write reasonably well, you can make some nice money per month. Enough to pay some bills, certainly, if nothing blows up and becomes super popular. I've seen lots of folks who started writing erotica this past Spring quit their day jobs or at least brag about making their car payments through smut money. It's awesome!

It's not easy, but if you have the knack for it and are prolific, you can see very nice sales. It's hard work (*snicker*), but it's a living!


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## JennyJ (Jul 20, 2011)

Delilah, I just wanted to say *woot* *woot* you go girl!

Hi MJ nice to see you posting :  )  It's a great genre.


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## DelilahFawkes (May 11, 2011)

Thanks, Shiri! :v: Woot back at ya!


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## MannieC (Oct 11, 2012)

this is going to be a bit off topic but i've wrote 8 or 9 or so short erotic stories around 8000ish words long, not for the purpose of selling or publishing i just wrote them because people enjoyed my writing and i enjoyed writing them, i haven't shown them to many people just a select few but more than a couple mentioned to me that i should publish, now i dont think my storys are anywhere near good enough that anyone would want to buy them but just to shut these biased people (i think) up could i send one to someone on here who has published to give me an honest opinion


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

Hey Delilah. I just wanted to say that you're a huge inspiration to me as a writer. My wife and I read several threads of yours that gave us the the extra kick in the butt that we needed to be more prolific. 

Anyway, I just wanted to take a few seconds and say thanks for the advice you've shared in the past. And you're absolutely right. Erotica is not a get rich quick scheme. It takes good writing and the ability to constantly come up with new stories.  I'm releasing my 7th story in a few days, and I'm making some pretty OK money so far. I'm definitely making more money than I am with my "traditional," "non-adult" stories.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Can somebody explain why it seems so many erotica authors sell a lot on Smashwords? I guess I just don't understand SW. I would never shop there. I would always goto Amazon. So what is it about SW that makes people who like erotica shop there? I don't get it.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

jimkukral said:


> Can somebody explain why it seems so many erotica authors sell a lot on Smashwords? I guess I just don't understand SW. I would never shop there. I would always goto Amazon. So what is it about SW that makes people who like erotica shop there? I don't get it.


You're not tied to a format with smashwords, and can even read the file online without downloading anything. I've purchased books there and downloaded the pdf to read on my computer. A friend of mine has a Sony ereader but doesn't shop with Sony. It was just the reader she preferred. She buys pdfs where available, and of course they're all genres, not just erotica.


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## James Snow (Sep 11, 2012)

I've put out a fair few short stories so far and they are selling reasonably well. I'm now working on a few longer titles just to give my pen name a little more in the way of options for my readers. 

I must admit when I do my market research I'm often shocked by how much money a lot of erotic shorts are sold for. 

I agree that so long as you're not just looking for a quick cash in and have interest in the genre then you can make shorts a success.


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## Allen_Dusk (Oct 3, 2012)

Piper Brooks said:


> Someone has told me there is almost no money in erotic short stories. Is that true? I was advised to try to sell to an anthology or magazine instead, but most seem to pay a one time payment per word. I know far more people who would spend a buck on a story no one else can see on their Kindle than would invest in an anthology or magazine of erotica.
> Am I wasting time by writing erotic short stories with the idea of selling them on Amazon?


Whoever told you there is no money in erotic short stories is nuts. Erotica has been one of the hottest selling genres in eBooks for the past few years, mainly because people can do it from the privacy of their own home. Short stories can be a quick way to get your blood boiling or simple foreplay for something else.

BUT - you need to look at the bigger picture...and ask yourself these questions:

1. Am I just looking to make a quick buck?
2. Are my stories professionally edited and formatted?
3. Why stop at Amazon? What about other platforms?
4. Have you submitted your work elsewhere first?

Writing and posting anything on Amazon will lead to a few sales, but if your posted crap then you are going to burn your readers.

My advice is simple. Write a damn good story, if it's erotica it needs to make people hot under the collar. Get your story edited and formatted by somebody who does this regularly. Don't stop at Amazon... get an account with Smashwords so you can easily distribute your work to all the platforms (I've sold over 3000 shorts on Barnes and Noble, but less than 100 on Amazon... have no idea why). It's been my experience that if you publish a few good stories then readers will gobble them up one after another.

Writers usually want to make a name for themselves. Try using a website like http://duotrope.com/ to research places to submit your work. The more places you have your name and your work, then the more likely people will learn who you are and seek out your other works.

Last but not least... experiment with your prices, but if your just selling short stories under 10,000 words then just use $0.99 across the board. Research has shown readers do not like paying more than that for just a short story.


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## JennyJ (Jul 20, 2011)

yep


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't know that anyone sells much of anything on Smashwords directly. A few when they're released, but generally not much at all. It's not for Smashwords that you list on Smashwords. They are the gateway to iTunes which is about 10% of our sales and if you're not in the US to B&N, which makes up at least a quarter of our sales. Then Sony or Diesel has the odd sale as well.



> if your just selling short stories under 10,000 words then just use $0.99 across the board. Research has shown readers do not like paying more than that for just a short story.


Erotica does pretty at $2.99 for a short.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

jimkukral said:


> Can somebody explain why it seems so many erotica authors sell a lot on Smashwords? I guess I just don't understand SW. I would never shop there. I would always goto Amazon. So what is it about SW that makes people who like erotica shop there? I don't get it.


Most people don't make money on Smashwords...the sales volume is low overall. There are outliers but that's not the norm...most of us don't see large amounts of money. IMO Smashword attracts the freebie crowd because it's the one place an author can offer free content without giving up exclusivity a la KDP Select. That freebie aspect may yield a few additional sales of an author's catalog but not much more than that.

M


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

Katie Elle said:


> Erotica does pretty at $2.99 for a short.


Yep. Anyone who puts their erotica shorts up for .99 is losing money, unless those shorts are super short at around 2 - 3k words.


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## kristinleigh (Oct 17, 2012)

New here, *waves*
Having a little trouble navigating through everything---where can I find the yellowpages for this thread?

Also, figured I'd introduce myself. Currently close to wrapping up my first erotica novella titled Wicked Peter. I plan to have it published Jan 1 and the rest of the series out in 2013. I also currently edit & proofread at a very afforable per word rate. I am, however, shopping for an afforable editor for my own work. Suggestions? Thanks so much! So happy to have found a safe place to talk about writing erotica! Smut writers unite!


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## Sarah Barbour (Jun 25, 2012)

kristinleigh said:


> New here, *waves*
> Having a little trouble navigating through everything---where can I find the yellowpages for this thread?
> 
> Also, figured I'd introduce myself. Currently close to wrapping up my first erotica novella titled Wicked Peter. I plan to have it published Jan 1 and the rest of the series out in 2013. I also currently edit & proofread at a very afforable per word rate. I am, however, shopping for an afforable editor for my own work. Suggestions? Thanks so much! So happy to have found a safe place to talk about writing erotica! Smut writers unite!


The yellow pages can be found here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,123703.0.html

And, ahem, I am also an affordable editor who's done a fair amount of erotica, so please get in touch if you're interested


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## kevin1954 (Oct 28, 2012)

So, if you don't use KDP select, and do the free thing for a few days, how do you get reviews. Erotica books are not something you want to ask your friends and family to read and review. I'm new to erotic books and new to trying to promote them. I did find a link here to a blog for the genre, but you have to have something like 5 reviews, 4 start average. I do know you don't want to pay for reviews, but that's about all I know.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

kevin1954 said:


> So, if you don't use KDP select, and do the free thing for a few days, how do you get reviews. Erotica books are not something you want to ask your friends and family to read and review. I'm new to erotic books and new to trying to promote them. I did find a link here to a blog for the genre, but you have to have something like 5 reviews, 4 start average. I do know you don't want to pay for reviews, but that's about all I know.


Typically you won't get many reviews for erotica. Erotic romance fairs better but most people aren't willing to publicly admit they buy the stuff.

You can start a mailing list and see if any of those folks would read and review. I've done some giveaways on Goodreads...but in general those readers are picky. You'll get dinged for story length and other ridiculousness.

My advice would be to keep writing, make sure there are buy links to your other books in each release. It looks like from your sig that you just have one erotica book? If so, work on getting up to 10 which will give you a better picture of how the sales work in erotica. In the absence of reviews...make sure your covers and blurbs sizzle.

I have about 20 short stories in erotica and, knock on wood, am making a full time income. None of it is really review driven, although I've tried to get reviews when I can.

M


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## ParisRivera (Oct 28, 2012)

I think the key is quality plus quantity! Good books will advertise each other!


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## kevin1954 (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks for the advice, I will have a 2nd in a week or 2 and will try cross selling, sounds like 10 or 20 is the thing to shoot for!


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## Jake Decker (Jul 27, 2012)

I've been wanting to dive into erotica for a while but not just because it sells well; I want to write it well but I'm sure it can be hard (ahem). 

Can anyone recommend some good erotica writers and stories to read? I read Sara Fawkes first book in her successful series which was I thought was pretty good and I plan to read the rest. Any others?


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

Mordred said:


> I've been wanting to dive into erotica for a while but not just because it sells well; I want to write it well but I'm sure it can be hard (ahem).
> 
> Can anyone recommend some good erotica writers and stories to read? I read Sara Fawkes first book in her successful series which was I thought was pretty good and I plan to read the rest. Any others?


Realm of Janos series by our own AndreSanThomas is the best erotica fiction I have read this year. As far as instruction on writing erotic scenes, I recommend Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet by Stacia Kane.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Victoria Champion said:


> Realm of Janos series by our own AndreSanThomas is the best erotica fiction I have read this year. As far as instruction on writing erotic scenes, I recommend Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet by Stacia Kane.


The Sex Writing Strumpet by Stacia Kane is a good book.

I just read Flesh last night by Kylie Scott.... amazing writing. Best I've read yet. It's love in the midst of a zombie apocalypse. I picked it up for 99 cents too.

M


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## Jake Decker (Jul 27, 2012)

Thank you. Please keep it coming


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## jamiedierks (Jul 5, 2011)

I guess I'm confused. 

So many people on this thread are saying they are making good/great money selling erotica, but then I look at the Amazon ranking of their books and they are listed at #400,000+, this number equates to less than 5 books a month. With my mysteries, I sell about 30-60 each a month when I'm not promoting and hover around 25K to 100K. When I was promoting, I sold about 500 each copies of the two books I had up, and I was in the 2K range. Then I was making decent money. 

I'm sure "good money" is relative, but I'm not sure how selling 5 books a month at $0.99 to $1.99 is good money. Writing is hard work, and takes a lot of time. At 35%, .99 5 books = $1.73 a month.

Is there a chance the erotica market is saturated?


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

jamiedierks said:


> I guess I'm confused.
> 
> So many people on this thread are saying they are making good/great money selling erotica, but then I look at the Amazon ranking of their books and they are listed at #400,000+, this number equates to less than 5 books a month. With my mysteries, I sell about 30-60 each a month when I'm not promoting and hover around 25K to 100K. When I was promoting, I sold about 500 each copies of the two books I had up, and I was in the 2K range. Then I was making decent money.
> 
> ...


I know of a lot of erotica authors who make most of their money on B&N and All Romance. Amazon ime can go either way.


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## jamiedierks (Jul 5, 2011)

Ah, that would make more sense. The erotica market probably sells better on other sites, so the numbers look low on Amazon but are better elsewhere. Thanks for the clarification.



Hildred said:


> I know of a lot of erotica authors who make most of their money on B&N and All Romance. Amazon ime can go either way.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

jamiedierks said:


> I guess I'm confused.
> 
> So many people on this thread are saying they are making good/great money selling erotica, but then I look at the Amazon ranking of their books and they are listed at #400,000+, this number equates to less than 5 books a month. With my mysteries, I sell about 30-60 each a month when I'm not promoting and hover around 25K to 100K. When I was promoting, I sold about 500 each copies of the two books I had up, and I was in the 2K range. Then I was making decent money.
> 
> ...


First, imo 30-60 month in mysteries is great! Especially if you are selling at $2.99 or up.

If you're looking at my siggy.... my erotica pen name is not represented. I'm currently in the Top 100 with one book and have another flirting with ranking on the Hot New Releases. I've had two Top 100 books overall.

My ranks are usually in the teens to twenties with some that are in the 100k range.

Also, I think a lot (not all but a lot ) of the writers posting here are either not sharing their lucrative pen names or are just starting out. Ime the successful folks have sought out communities that are more open to erotica without the restrictions in place on KB. So what you see on KB is not necessarily a good representation of how erotica ranks or doesn't.

Is erotica saturated? The genre is being targeted by get rich quick internet marketing schemes which is a problem. You have IM folks publishing 100 books a week...mostly written in India. There are a lot of people who are throwing up some erotica to see what sticks. So there is a lot of flotsam for readers to wade through, which is a new-ish thing and making it more difficult for folks starting out. It took me a year to see significant money (and of course there are all sorts of variables in that, for example, I am a slow writer. It took me a while to find niches that worked for me etc...)

As with anything writers who take the time to truly build a brand, produce work of a consistent quality on a consistent basis will do well.

M


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

Curious, where do you guys go for quality erotica covers, or do the majority just stick to layered stock images? How much sense would it be to spend upwards of say, $200 for an erotica novella? Or would that be overkill?


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Soothesayer said:


> Curious, where do you guys go for quality erotica covers, or do the majority just stick to layered stock images? How much sense would it be to spend upwards of say, $200 for an erotica novella? Or would that be overkill?


Unless you are making 4 to 5 figures a month in income or are at the tipping point where readers look for you/recognize your name to where visual branding might make sense, it is not worth it to spend that much money on a cover imo. You can do it if you want to, but the return on investment is pretty much zero.

I might make an exception if the story is something that can't be conveyed at all by regular stock. High concept SF erotica for example (although SF erotica really doesn't sell and an expensive cover makes NO sense because of that).

But mostly I use stock and have just begun to use multiple images in one cover as my PS skills expand.

M


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## jamiedierks (Jul 5, 2011)

It took me nearly a year to start selling regularly. I had a lot of learning to do when it came to eBooks. After making it to #5 on the mystery list, I thought I was on a roll. Only the roll lasted about a month. Now back to about 50 books each a month. Selling at $3.99, and happy with the pocket money.

I can say this, as a mystery author, I sell better on Amazon than any other venue.

I'm not a fast writer either. And all of my ideas include dead bodies, so I'm not sure erotica would be a good fit for my writing. I do appreciate a good erotica novel, but as you said, there is a lot crap to wade through.



mrv01d said:


> First, imo 30-60 month in mysteries is great! Especially if you are selling at $2.99 or up.
> 
> As with anything writers who take the time to truly build a brand, produce work of a consistent quality on a consistent basis will do well.
> 
> M


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## IndigoSin (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm a new author, and I write erotic shorts for Horny Devil Publishing. Horny Devil is a new and upcoming company that publishes _only_ erotic shorts between 9 - 15k words, to cater to the fast paced lifestyle of the average working person. Let's be honest, few people have the time to read a novel anymore, between work, commuting and family. People are busy, and have little spare time to themselves. Short stories give the reader what they want in a quick, hot read that isn't going to take them days to finish. They sell very well because of this, and that is why I chose to publish through Horny Devil Publishing. Amazon seems to be the best venue for sales from what I've experienced, but my stories are also available on ARE, Barnes and Noble, Smashwords, and Kobo. Long story short, Erotic shorts DO sell, and they sell very well.


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## Burrito Fart (Apr 22, 2012)

Do you guys use pen names? Just One or multiple? And if you do, do you think it makes a difference in sales? I have a lot of questions. lol


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## Tarzan (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, novice erotic writer here and also new to Kindle Boards.  Just wanted to say that I appreciate the comments and advice given throughout this thread.
Best wishes and every success to you all.
Adrian


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## KyraD (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm also a new erotic romance writer. Just published a 15,000-word novelette on Barnes and Noble and Amazon. The e-book hasn't shown up on Amazon, yet, but I keep checking B&N, expecting to see sales rolling in. So far, nothing yet.


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## Burrito Fart (Apr 22, 2012)

From what I've read on other threads it seems to be the more shorts you have out there the better chance you have of sales increasing. Just keep at it!


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## JennyJ (Jul 20, 2011)

Both your covers look good, pretty professional.


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## JadeLogan (Jan 15, 2013)

Harlow Nash said:


> Do you guys use pen names? Just One or multiple? And if you do, do you think it makes a difference in sales? I have a lot of questions. lol


I have three other pen names and they have each started to pick up after a few months, I don't publish all under one name because the sub-genres within erotica can be so varied that it simply makes sense to have different names. 

But all this means nothing if you can't keep up with the promotion and marketing of each name. If you have four like I do then literally spend one week on each, over a month. Once your marketing and writing week with one pen name has passed, completely ignore it and wait for the name's time to come round again. (of course, you may jump back and forth but try and focus on one per time frame)

From my experience I have always seen sales start to pick up after the 5th story is published.

I have publicly never been an advocate of the $0.99 sales bracket, not even for a short story. $2.99-$4.99 all the way. Remember that with specific sub-genre's, you are writing for a select market, a niche audience. These types of buyers willingly pay more for something dedicated to their niche, it's just the way of things.

I published under Jade Logan, my quasi-real name, in the middle of January 2013 (this year!) and have hit well over a $1000 across all platforms in a little over a month, but this was helped by the fact that I have bigger selling names and they are all inter-linked in some way or another.

I also published for many years on extreme erotica sites before Kindle so I brought a small following with me  (think of it as pre-promotion!)

I have one book Sex Island Pleasures currently at the beginning of a promotion through select, sitting in the top 40 of the erotica section. That's good enough for me and I'll sleep well tonight knowing that it is on the reading devices of thousands of people who have downloaded it!

_(hopefully get some more sales out of it as well!)_

x


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## Alex Anders (Apr 11, 2012)

I've never completely understood the need to use multiple pen names for erotica. I've had it explained to me multiple times but I still don't get it. I have a mailing list and I offer all of my subscribers free review copies. I have found that readers do read in multiple sub-genres. And it seems so difficult to advertise one pen name, why would someone take on the task of having to advertise multiple names? But that is just one person's opinion.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Alex Anders said:


> I've never completely understood the need to use multiple pen names for erotica. I've had it explained to me multiple times but I still don't get it. I have a mailing list and I offer all of my subscribers free review copies. I have found that readers do read in multiple sub-genres. And it seems so difficult to advertise one pen name, why would someone take on the task of having to advertise multiple names? But that is just one person's opinion.


I've recently come to the same conclusion. I had spread things out and only one of my secondary pen names was selling anything. It takes a large catalog to get noticed, and even then there's no guarantees. So, instead of writing more for each of the separate pen names, I've pulled them all back and re-released them under one. Now they're getting more visibility, and selling better. If you brand properly between different genres, your readers will figure it out.


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## K.T. Parks (Dec 30, 2012)

Thank you guys for providing us newbies with this inspirational thread! I have just published my first ever erotica novelette and it is currently up at Smashwords, Nook Press, and currently in "Publishing" status at Amazon.com. I'm in it for the long haul, so I will take you guys' advice about writing lots of (good) work in order to increase your chances of success. This novelette is actually a series and the first book in the series is currently about 9000 words. I've listed it at $2.99 for all sites. Going to work on improving my blurb as well.

I had a few questions for you veterans who have run this gauntlet a few times before:

-Would you say it would be a good thing for newbies to (temporarily) give away freebies in order to get your work out there (since some readers may be a little skiddish taking a chance with new writers)?

-Do you sometimes offer discount pricing on your books (temporarily) to see if it gives your sales a slight boost?

-Finally, have any of you ever purchased ads on facebook or Goodreads and had any success with gaining sales or visibility?

Thanks for your time and looking forward to hearing what you have to say in regards to this.

-K.T. Parks


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## Issa Cherry (Nov 26, 2013)

This thread ran for almost two years....I am wondering if any of the original posters have anything further to add? Do you still feel that erotic short stories sell?

What else have you found in regards to sales since 2011?

Issa x


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## Ardin (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, I'd love to hear from those who were in the game back in 2011.
How do things look now?


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

I too would be interested in hearing words of wisdom from some erotic short-story veterans.  I've written a couple of shorts (less than 7k words) that may not be erotica, but, compared to my regular writing, is quite spicy & 'naughty.'  I've wondered if there's a market for such stories.  (And I've been thinking that if I do bring them out to the light of day, maybe I should use a pen name, to distinguish from my other, 'general' fiction.)


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## K.T. Parks (Dec 30, 2012)

Issa Cherry said:


> This thread ran for almost two years....I am wondering if any of the original posters have anything further to add? Do you still feel that erotic short stories sell?
> 
> What else have you found in regards to sales since 2011?
> 
> Issa x


They do sell, but not so much with just one or two stories out. You have to be in this for the long haul. Many have said they hit "critical mass" around their 5th or 6th story (or more). I'm still working on getting to that point, so I can't comment personally.

Serials seem to do best.


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## K.T. Parks (Dec 30, 2012)

If you haven't ran across this post already, here is some good advice from a guy who has been very successful selling his novels. He does not write erotica or short stories, but he gives you a good idea of what to expect if you are just starting out (and why not to expect too much early on):

*Sell Loads of Books - My System Spelled Out*

By Russell Blake



blakebooks said:


> By way of background, I write conspiracy-based action/adventure novels. I published my first novel on Amazon June, 2011. I published my 20th novel in April, 2013. My first month I sold about 7 books. In 2013, from the start of the year to today, May 7, I have sold just shy of 100K books, and look good to exceed 200K for the year by a decent margin. I do not sell books at .99, or $2.99, or $3.99. The vast majority of my titles are $5-$6. I lay this out there not to crow, but to establish why it might be worth considering my approach.


http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,150526.msg2182675.html#msg2182675


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## DonDraco (Jun 24, 2013)

I have 26 releases out but I haven't made enough yet to make it worth it. But Monday #27 will be uploaded and I'm working on #28.


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## Issa Cherry (Nov 26, 2013)

K.T. Parks said:


> They do sell, but not so much with just one or two stories out. You have to be in this for the long haul. Many have said they hit "critical mass" around their 5th or 6th story (or more). I'm still working on getting to that point, so I can't comment personally.
> 
> Serials seem to do best.


Thanks K.T.!

I suppose I have been wondering if sometime after 50SOG there had been a decrease in overall sales. Is there a point when there are just too many of these being produced? Having something worth a reader's attention is one struggle. Getting their attention in order to become readers is another! *sigh!*

So you are two titles in? Where to now?

PS: I am chasing you around the Internets. Do not be alarmed! LOL! Just interested in what the rest of the gang are doing!

Issa x


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## Issa Cherry (Nov 26, 2013)

DonDraco said:


> I have 26 releases out but I haven't made enough yet to make it worth it. But Monday #27 will be uploaded and I'm working on #28.


Hi Don:

But you must still feel motivated despite feeling you have not made enough to 'make it worth it'? There must be something driving you on to #27 and #28?

Issa x


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## Issa Cherry (Nov 26, 2013)

K.T. Parks said:


> If you haven't ran across this post already, here is some good advice from a guy who has been very successful selling his novels. He does not write erotica or short stories, but he gives you a good idea of what to expect if you are just starting out (and why not to expect too much early on):
> 
> *Sell Loads of Books - My System Spelled Out*
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link K.T.: there is so much great information on this board, it is hard to know where to start!

Issa x


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

ShaunaG said:


> I was thinking about offering bundles. If you priced all your individuals (say 3 stories) at 2.99 what would you price the bundle at? I keep arguing with myself about it so some advice would be great!


My short story collection didn't sell very well at all, but the individual stories did, two of them erotic  For me, singles seem to sell better than collections


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Short stories are still selling well for me.  It seems that some catch on and do very well, while others don't.  If I could figure out why, I'd stop writing the ones that don't.


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

swolf said:


> Short stories are still selling well for me. It seems that some catch on and do very well, while others don't. If I could figure out why, I'd stop writing the ones that don't.


I think it's just (accidentally) hitting the right combo of niche, cover, blurb, keywords and excerpt. Like a recipe, sometimes it comes out great and sometimes, even though we try our hardest it's 'blah'. Luck definitely does have a small hand in it.


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## K.T. Parks (Dec 30, 2012)

Issa Cherry said:


> Thanks K.T.!
> 
> So you are two titles in? Where to now?


Glad you asked!

This year was my very first in publishing anything. Life obligations only permitted me to publish 2 novelettes this year, but I'll be chugging along full speed come 2014. I also spent a very large portion of my time trying to learn the ropes and researching before I just plunged in feet first.

I am going to continue with my Wayward Self series, as I have been getting lots of great feedback from them. Book 2 is selling, so I take it most folks like Book 1.

I am also taking a character from the Wayward Self series and doing a spin-off with her:
























This trilogy, along with Wayward Self, Book 3 should keep me pretty busy next year.

The best advice I could give you is to really enjoy the story you are telling and have a lot of fun while writing it. You will be very disappointed if you are only writing for money. If you can write great stories and are enjoying what you are doing, the money will follow naturally. An often repeated refrain around here is that writing books is a "marathon"; not a race. Think quality over quantity. It is better to put out 2 to 3 very good books in a year as opposed to rushing to churn out 7 to 8 "ok" ones.

(NOTE: Your fans may dictate that you "speed things up", lol. If you read some of the comments on Amazon.com for Wayward Self, Book 2, pretty much every comment posted is asking "When is Book 3 coming out??")

Most importantly, having a lot of luck really makes your job a helluva lot easier 

I think Lana summed it up best:



Lana Amore said:


> Like a recipe, sometimes it comes out great and sometimes, even though we try our hardest it's 'blah'. Luck definitely does have a small hand in it.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Boyd said:


> I love your amulet books!!
> 
> goes back into lurking mode.


Thank you. That's nice of you to say.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

If I do put my short stories for sale, I'm trying to decide if, for my new pen name, I'm going to do the "initial" thing, or if I'll just use a first name. Not MY first name, but _*a*_ first name.


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## Issa Cherry (Nov 26, 2013)

K.T. Parks said:


> Glad you asked!
> 
> This year was my very first in publishing anything. Life obligations only permitted me to publish 2 novelettes this year, but I'll be chugging along full speed come 2014. I also spent a very large portion of my time trying to learn the ropes and researching before I just plunged in feet first.
> 
> ...


Hi K.T.

Congratulatons on having your first two titles out and about, as well as a fabulous plan for a spin-off series.

This thread is amazing. Really inspiring watching the veterans and the success of the more recently published. I am reading through thls very carefully...and taking notes!

Issa x


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

They still sell, but there have been a lot of changes. There is more competition and it's a lot harder to get your foot in the door (ie, you need to write a lot more stories than you did in the past before you get traction.) For a long time, the way to just start making bucks was to write in a new and exciting kink that nobody had and profit. They're pretty much all flooded now and you have to be very aware of what is and isn't acceptable to each publisher--likewise more important to diversify. I think quality is also important in getting long term success because there has been a flood of, bluntly, junk. I don't mean "not that well written" (which certainly describes my work) as much as "cranked out in an hour by an internet marketing type who does not care at all about the story or quality."

The old paradigm was write more and more shorts and you can make a career. The new paradigm is write a ton of shorts to learn your craft, move into longer works with new adult or erotic romance and you can make a career.


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## DonDraco (Jun 24, 2013)

Issa Cherry said:


> Hi Don:
> 
> But you must still feel motivated despite feeling you have not made enough to 'make it worth it'? There must be something driving you on to #27 and #28?
> 
> Issa x


Stubbornness. 

I'm passionate about writing and sex, so I may as well combine them and make some money from it.


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## Issa Cherry (Nov 26, 2013)

DonDraco said:


> Stubbornness.
> 
> I'm passionate about writing and sex, so I may as well combine them and make some money from it.


Waah ROLFMAO!

Love it! BTW I love your cover design for your books!

I am now following you on FB and Twitter, be sure to say 'Hello!' I don't have many friends YET on social media. It's a lot of fun to talk to other authors!

Issa x


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## DonDraco (Jun 24, 2013)

Hey Issa,

I said hello on Twitter. I went for innuendo but then it made more sense than I intended. Haha, my brain does that a lot. I say something silly that makes sense if you think about it.

I noticed you didn't have an author page up on Amazon, https://authorcentral.amazon.com/ fill out a bio and then add your books to your list there (and again each time you release one.) then when people are on your page they can click your name and see your other titles. And you can have your recent blog posts show up on the author page too. And latest tweet.


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## Jay Walken (Feb 7, 2013)

Has there been a general reduction in prices, and reader expectations for lower prices? 

I visited the erotica bestseller list and found quite a few large collections selling for $2.99.

Would that mean that short stories have to stick to the 99 cent price point now?


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## 72263 (Sep 10, 2013)

I think those might just be promotional prizes, where people price it low the first feek after it's come out. "Buy it now for only $2.99! In a week, it'll be $5.99!" 

I do see a trend towards stories longer than 3,000 words.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Anyone interested in mentoring?    I see myself as cross genre I was thinking finding a niche I know something about and giving it a go. I've started writing shorts to exercise myself. So for instance I love scotch and started researching that fetish. Who knew Scotland was sooooooo kinky!   seriously this is something that could be fun to do. Thinking I could use a pen name something like Glen Fidish or maybe Pete Barley. Have fun with it you know?


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