# How are your novelettes doing?



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Just re-branded one recently. I hope people will like it enough to want to read more of them.

What about your novelettes? Are they doing well? Did you do a series of them and go from there to a novel? Links would be nice


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I released a novella in May that did surprisingly well. I branded it as part of a series and will be releasing part 2 of the series soon.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

What's the name of it?


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

wearywanderer64 said:


> What's the name of it?


It's called Contamination. The ranking is not so crash hot now, but I sold about 700 copies at $2.99. It's about 20k words and the cover cost me nothing because i did it myself. I think editing was about $150. It performed much better than I expected.


----------



## archaeoroutes (Oct 12, 2014)

Mine isn't doing as well as my novels, but it's holding on. It is a bridge between two novels in a series, and in scifi which has a good record with short fiction.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Well done! Hope you have continued success.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

archaeoroutes said:


> Mine isn't doing as well as my novels, but it's holding on. It is a bridge between two novels in a series, and in scifi which has a good record with short fiction.


Is sci-fi the best genre for selling novelettes?


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

wearywanderer64 said:


> Is sci-fi the best genre for selling novelettes?


What is your criteria for a novelette?

I did extremely well with YA novellas for a long time. (15 - 35k)

Not so much now, but that's my fault. My covers are now dated, I haven't released anything under this name for a year, and I don't do any promotion except free first in series.

You can check them out in my website link below. All are wide. Three different series, sixteen books (not including the box sets), all first in series are free.

Until I stopped writing them I was making about 2k a month from them (mainly between Amazon and Google Play). It's not a huge amount but it's not bad for a part time income. I'm lucky if it's half that on this name at the moment.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

I'd be more than happy to make that kind of money. It shows people liked them.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Patty Jansen said:


> It's called Contamination. The ranking is not so crash hot now, but I sold about 700 copies at $2.99. It's about 20k words and the cover cost me nothing because i did it myself. I think editing was about $150. It performed much better than I expected.


This is quite cool to hear Patty. Congrats! I too am into the novella thing. First is not out just yet. Also a work alone thing - Kindle cover creator. I will declare it a series once I know how well it does. Teen and YA thing.

The thinking here for me is I can hammer out a draft in two weeks - 20k words pretty easy. Another few weeks to polish ... but editing you own book is fighting the worst demon I have ever imagined 

A 50k word novel would take a year or more. That is a death march I am afraid. A lot of pain if it does not do well.

Ah well, it is good to hear good news. Thanks.


----------



## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

wearywanderer64 said:


> Just re-branded one recently. I hope people will like it enough to want to read more of them.
> 
> What about your novelettes? Are they doing well? Did you do a series of them and go from there to a novel? Links would be nice


What length are you considering novelettes? I write novellas, around 30k and those do well.


----------



## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm also interested in the word length of what you view as a novelette. From what I could glean on Master Google, it's this?

Short story: under 7,500 words. *Novelette: 7,500-17,500 words.* Novella: 17,500-40,000 words. Novel: 40,000 words and up.

Although, I doubt the reader is as interested in the nuances as we might be.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

PamelaKelley said:


> What length are you considering novelettes? I write novellas, around 30k and those do well.


7500-17000 words. Mine comes in at around 16000.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

EC Sheedy said:


> I'm also interested in the word length of what you view as a novelette. From what I could glean on Master Google, it's this?
> 
> Short story: under 7,500 words. *Novelette: 7,500-17,500 words.* Novella: 17,500-40,000 words. Novel: 40,000 words and up.
> 
> Although, I doubt the reader is as interested in the nuances as we might be.


That's what I got when I researched the word length.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

The thing to remember about novellas though is that it really really isn't worth putting them in KU. I charge 2.99 for most of mine, which readers seem fine with (the novelette length series are on 0.99) my novella sales didn't change even a tiny blip when I raised them to the higher price. But page reads made about 10c a book (not an actual figure just how it felt) and I didn't get that many. Though that could be because the YA market don't have KU?


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

If people like your story, they're wiling to pay a decent price for it.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> The thing to remember about novellas though is that it really really isn't worth putting them in KU. I charge 2.99 for most of mine, which readers seem fine with (the novelette length series are on 0.99) my novella sales didn't change even a tiny blip when I raised them to the higher price. But page reads made about 10c a book (not an actual figure just how it felt) and I didn't get that many. Though that could be because the YA market don't have KU?


ooops, I did not consider that ... but I went to your site ... I think it is a genre thing with you. I am SyFy Teen/YA so Select may do well. But the Novella will be $2.99 too.


----------



## archaeoroutes (Oct 12, 2014)

I always got the impression that scifi was good for shorts of all sorts. There is a long culture of writing and reading shorts, though often in anthology form I guess.

I've just taken mine out of wide and into KU as a test. I expect I'll take a hit on revenue, but I'm hoping it will increase read-through of the series as the novels are in KU and thus be a nett positive. It might have a benefit in exposure that helps its sales, of course...

I use the lengths quoted upthread, but wish there was a longer category than novel. Something like 75000+ Continuing the trend of shortening the name as the story gets longer, it could be called a nove or a nov.
(Yes, I know it's epic novel, but that spoilt the pattern  )


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> The thinking here for me is I can hammer out a draft in two weeks - 20k words pretty easy. Another few weeks to polish ... but editing you own book is fighting the worst demon I have ever imagined
> 
> A 50k word novel would take a year or more. That is a death march I am afraid. A lot of pain if it does not do well.


I'm curious about your math. If you can hammer out 20k words in two weeks, why would it take you a year to write 50k? Shouldn't it be more like 5 weeks?


----------



## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

I have several novellettes in anthologies, and they have helped my series a lot.


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

My title Hell Hath No Fury is a novelette. And I'm actually revising the sequel, Hell On Wheels, right now.

I am the prawniest of prawns, and my sales are pretty darn low right now for all of my titles (I have a bunch of short stories and only one novel out right now), but I felt when Hell Hath No Fury originally released it had done much better than any of my other shorter titles. I originally wasn't going to do a sequel, but my editor loved the story so much and suggested it... which gave me the mind worm for a sequel and a couple others for a series as well.

The first is around 12k, and the sequel will be closer to 16k. I'm interested to see what will happen once I release the sequel (though I'm trying to make it so readers won't feel like they missed too much if they pick up the 2nd one first, since I'll likely do a KU stint for 3 months before taking it wide with the first title).

Maybe they'd do better if I could finally get a handle on that whole marketing thing.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

C. Gockel said:


> I have several novellettes in anthologies, and they have helped my series a lot.


I'm glad. Just downloaded your free novelette. Looking forward to reading it


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

AlexaGrave said:


> My title Hell Hath No Fury is a novelette. And I'm actually revising the sequel, Hell On Wheels, right now.
> 
> I am the prawniest of prawns, and my sales are pretty darn low right now for all of my titles (I have a bunch of short stories and only one novel out right now), but I felt when Hell Hath No Fury originally released it had done much better than any of my other shorter titles. I originally wasn't going to do a sequel, but my editor loved the story so much and suggested it... which gave me the mind worm for a sequel and a couple others for a series as well.
> 
> ...


Marketing is my weakest point.


----------



## MladenR (Jul 1, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> I'm curious about your math. If you can hammer out 20k words in two weeks, why would it take you a year to write 50k? Shouldn't it be more like 5 weeks?


I would assume it's because there is a major difference in writing the outlines and editing.

First up is the fact that a novelette has one (at most two) PoV(s) so there isn't much shifting between characters and there isn't much development as far as writing voices go. Also, in novelettes you have one plot, very few conflicts (one or two) and very little subplot (in a couple of lines, most of the time).

The novel is different. First, you're dealing with four or five PoV characters (given you're not writing in first person and you're not writing from the god's eye perspective which is boring). Then there are many conflicts and subplots you need to intertwine with the main plot.

Then there is the actual writing and editing.

Plus, we all tend to give a greater meaning to novels so we fear more before hitting the publish button. Only the reviewing takes a good potion of that time


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Novelettes can be more concise. Novels are easy to fluff out.


----------



## MladenR (Jul 1, 2017)

I agree with that. That's why I write them. Although fluffing out 50K words doesn't mean the job is done. And yeah, the above math was a bit exaggerated but I believe the point is when you're writing a novel there's more to do. And there actually is a lot. Depending on genre, of course.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

As a reader, it's easy to see when a novel has been fluffed out. I'm a short story fan and I like the fact that what hasn't been said lets me use my imagination about what happens next. I kind of like that. 

Hope that makes sense. The effect of wine is beginning to kick in.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

While novelettes may be faster to write, they don't sell as well and aren't as evergreen. So it's important to ask yourself what you want out of this. If you simply want to write what you want and enjoy it, have at it. If you want to make money, though, you need to build a backlist that sells. Novelettes don't hold up as well as full novels on a backlist. So, is it better to write five novelettes that don't sell or once novel that does and can be used for advertising purposes down the road?


----------



## Rose Andrews (Jun 1, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> While novelettes may be faster to write, they don't sell as well and aren't as evergreen. So it's important to ask yourself what you want out of this. If you simply want to write what you want and enjoy it, have at it. If you want to make money, though, you need to build a backlist that sells. Novelettes don't hold up as well as full novels on a backlist. *So, is it better to write five novelettes that don't sell or once novel that does and can be used for advertising purposes down the road?*


I absolutely agree with this. When I first put out my novelette series, it did okay. Now, they've faded into oblivion. I wasn't expecting them to be evergreen although I know some are. The reason why I published them was basically to get the hang of publishing in the first place. Now that I know what I'm doing, writing shorts seems to be a waste of time for me. I'll be putting out novels the rest of the year and into beyond, mainly because they sell much better and they're easier to promote. Also, I think it's what readers prefer.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Rosie A. said:


> I absolutely agree with this. When I first put out my novelette series, it did okay. Now, they've faded into oblivion. I wasn't expecting them to be evergreen although I know some are. The reason why I published them was basically to get the hang of publishing in the first place. Now that I know what I'm doing, writing shorts seems to be a waste of time for me. I'll be putting out novels the rest of the year and into beyond, mainly because they sell much better and they're easier to promote. Also, I think it's what readers prefer.


People often complain that today's youth have very little concentration span. I wonder if novelettes will become more popular. Saying that, how are today's comics/ comic strips holding out. I used to love them as a kid e.g. Beano, Dandy (Scottish comics by DC) and others whose names have escaped me.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Rosie A. said:


> I absolutely agree with this. When I first put out my novelette series, it did okay. Now, they've faded into oblivion. I wasn't expecting them to be evergreen although I know some are. The reason why I published them was basically to get the hang of publishing in the first place. Now that I know what I'm doing, writing shorts seems to be a waste of time for me. I'll be putting out novels the rest of the year and into beyond, mainly because they sell much better and they're easier to promote. Also, I think it's what readers prefer.


Double agree. I got a great start by doing novellas, but now I mostly concentrate on novels under another name. However... I do say mostly, because actually I will keep doing the occasional novella as well to keep that name performing and make use of that backlist.

I love novellas, and actually I'd far rather read them (I have limited time and I'm always impatient for the end of a good story), but the market right now (which may well change in the future) seems to prefer novel length books. Especially for longevity as Amanda said.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I do have 28K shorts for my best-selling series. I do five a year. They're strictly marketing tools, though. I sell about 8-10K of them on opening week. They coast for about a month. Then they become something I can offer up for free to draw people to the main series. Since I did some holiday ones, I can offer the Thanksgiving one around Thanksgiving, Christmas around Christmas, etc. The only reason they sell is because they're attached to an already popular series, though.


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

I agree that short stories/novelettes take less time than a novel, even if the total word counts equal out in the end.

When I write shorter, I seem to get most of it "right" the first draft, so revisions go rather quickly. For novel length work, though, dealing with many threads, I screw up more often in that first draft so it takes more time to fix everything when I revise (I'm also a pantser, which could contribute).

I also completely understand that shorter works won't do as well as far as sales go. And yes, I eventually want to see some type of income higher than what I'm currently seeing (don't ask - lol... it's embarrassing), but that likely will never stop me from writing short stories and novelettes. In between novels, of course - I have plenty of novel ideas to work on as well!

I got into writing because I love it. Been writing since high school in one form or another. So, I fear if I ONLY chase the money (by concentrating solely on novels and refusing to allow myself to write shorts) I'll kill my love of this career.

My hope is that I can eventually balance both writing what I want and making a little money. Pipe dream?


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> I'm curious about your math. If you can hammer out 20k words in two weeks, why would it take you a year to write 50k? Shouldn't it be more like 5 weeks?


No. 2 weeks for a draft ... another 4 weeks polish and make it fit. Editing your own work - super sucks - there are demons (I know) 

So the plot and chapter layout and twists are easy once you land on an real ending. Getting to a real ending to drive to is the trick. Otherwise I think you are just daydreaming and writing something that you don't know how to end.

So 6 to 8 weeks once you start and have an ending to drive to. (starting is another story - as this is hobby - no big deal)

If you're REAL dedicated, 4 novellas (short or long) a year. Now this is a series maybe ... so you have an 80k novel looking thing ... pieced together. Same MC but as an ODTAA (one darn thing after another - kind of feeling.) So you offer a 4 book anthology really after a year as one book. My plan is to make the single novellas Select and the anthology as wide (non-Select). So if a KU reader likes the read-inside they have a choice ... (darn there goes the secret  )

A true Novel is a totally different beast. I can't see I would ever go to that. 1 year min I would think.

I see so many novels in read-inside that if you take out the fluff they may make an interesting novella. Maybe not - depends on their style and how they portray things and how the work moves. But I am being a critic.

Once you have studied writing, you ruin what you once liked to read. You dissect what you see wrong. Sucks.

finding that great read is super hard to do now. I do like the shorter faster novels (really they are kind of long novellas - not really quite a novel and they are fluffy still.) YA is good if they would stay away from the silly romance  light relationships is fine but don't go there too often or too long ... I get bored ... it should be about the story plot and MC ... yadda yadda.

I hope this weekend my novella will be out ... probably will get hung up again. Teen/YA thing


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

AlexaGrave said:


> When I write shorter, I seem to get most of it "right" the first draft, so revisions go rather quickly. For novel length work, though, dealing with many threads, I screw up more often in that first draft so it takes more time to fix everything when I revise (I'm also a pantser, which could contribute).


I never thought of that, but it's a really good point! When I write a novella my first draft is really clean and I hardly change a thing, but with a novel I have to spend countless days on editing, mainly fixing plot mistakes. They just don't happen in shorter books. With novel I guess at some point I just get a bit lost in the longer story and the plot holes begin to appear.


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

Evenstar said:


> I never thought of that, but it's a really good point! When I write a novella my first draft is really clean and I hardly change a thing, but with a novel I have to spend countless days on editing, mainly fixing plot mistakes. They just don't happen in shorter books. With novel I guess at some point I just get a bit lost in the longer story and the plot holes begin to appear.


Yes, totally this! Also, since it takes longer from beginning to end of a novel, by the time I'm near the end I may have forgotten something from the beginning that needs tying up.  (My memory seriously sucks sometimes.) It's actually kind of a relief working on something shorter in between novel work because it feels like I'm actually working with something that seems sane, whereas with a novel at times it feels like an insane mess.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> My plan is to make the single novellas Select and the anthology as wide (non-Select). So if a KU reader likes the read-inside they have a choice ... (darn there goes the secret  )


Yeah, that's not a good plan. You can't put something wide that's in KU. If it's in Select it has to be exclusive to Amazon.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

wearywanderer64 said:


> People often complain that today's youth have very little concentration span. I wonder if novelettes will become more popular. Saying that, how are today's comics/ comic strips holding out. I used to love them as a kid e.g. Beano, Dandy (Scottish comics by DC) and others whose names have escaped me.


I love to write short stories ... but there is really no outlet - anthologies of shorts mostly - suck. Write On was a fun place for that for fun. But it is gone. Wattpad is a zoo.

You are right. Teens like to read, but you better keep their attention. I have no idea if what I do works. But a novelette or novella gives the depth I can work with in the Teen/YA arena. Really to the lower to middle teens I think. Super Syfy related. Female protag (you want your MC weak - make them a girl - but one the reader can empathies with as you watch her get stronger and figure this out  ) but it is Syfy'ed up and the setting should feel real.

There are tons of old popular Novella works that are famous ... so novelettes and novellas are not dead by a long shot ... everyone else is chasing word count. I want to go for story ....


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Yeah, that's not a good plan. You can't put something wide that's in KU. If it's in Select it has to be exclusive to Amazon.


You are right.

I guess when I said "wide" I really meant 'not Select' on Amazon only for the collection. I have no idea if that will work. Now I am not sure you can even do that. If you know or anyone else knows let me know. I am not near that point though. Give it a year. Or "Contact Us" on Amazon can give me the canned response ...


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> YA is good if they would stay away from the silly romance  light relationships is fine but don't go there too often or too long ... it should be about the story plot and MC ... yadda yadda.


Uh huh, well I guess that puts my career in its place!


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> Uh huh, well I guess that puts my career in its place!


  you are funny ... I do know there are readers who love that ... I am not one is all. Twilight Saga was okay, but still  on the romance - cool enough story though (why did Meyer give up on Syfy and Fantasy, she writes really well ...? )

H games ... pretty neat no romance and a female protag - written well --- a good story.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> you are funny ... I do know there are readers who love that ... I am not one is all. Twilight Saga was okay, but still  on the romance - cool enough story though (why did Meyer give up on Syfy and Fantasy, she writes really well ...? )
> 
> H games ... pretty neat no romance and a female protag - written well --- a good story.


How do you figure there was no romance in the Hunger Games? One of the main angles of the trilogy was the Peeta-Katniss-Gale triangle.


----------



## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Picky Android said:


> You are right! Darn! Okay, so it will be select too then. Not really a biggy. I guess you've heard or bumped up against that. Thanks. Still an anthology is a good idea.
> 
> So can the anthology be only on Amazon but not Select? I think so. Let me know if not. It is still exclusive to Amazon - it is just not Select - and the singles are still select ...


Just keep them all out of select. That's what I'm doing. I started a project writing a novella series a couple years ago. This is before I even looked into how to publish or market them. I'm now bundling them as short books. A novella and a couple shorts each book. It's structured more like a TV series, with each book being a self contained story.

The start was rough but they are starting to pick up traction after a free promo. No where close to a written to market book, but since my co-author does the cover, we produce these things for next to nothing. The sales of book 1 only average 3 a day, but the sell through is pretty good. It's a weird, not to market premise, so don't take my results as standard. I'd imagine anything written to market with the same format will probably do a lot better.

On the plus side the shorter structure and subject matter has caught the eye of a production company. So if anything, it could be the perfect format for a proof of concept for TV shows.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> How do you figure there was no romance in the Hunger Games? One of the main angles of the trilogy was the Peeta-Katniss-Gale triangle.


And there was not a lot of the stone-cold-rock-hard-bodies with her tongue lolling out.  the triangle thing I see ... but it did not drive the story ... it was part of it is all.

Mostly it was plot ... she trying to save her butt ... then a friends butt ... kiss in a cave maybe  it worked as part of the plot ... that really was not on her mind ...  and then kick some butt ... and then ... cool story really. Without that romance angle it would have been different ... could it have just as good. I wonder.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> And there was not a lot of the stone-cold-rock-hard-bodies with her tongue lolling out.  the triangle thing I see ... but it did not drive the story ... it was part of it is all.
> 
> Mostly it was plot ... she trying to save her butt ... then a friends butt ... kiss in a cave maybe  it worked as part of the plot ... that really was not on her mind ...  and then kick some butt ... and then ... cool story really. Without that romance angle it would have been different ... could it have just as good. I wonder.


Not all romance is one thing. The romance was underlying but it most definitely propelled story. Without the romance, why the desperate need to get Peeta back in the final book? Without the romance, what brought Peeta around? Without the romance, what fueled Gale in the first place?
The story was heavier than trying to save her butt. It was a story about the futility of war. Katniss volunteered to save her sister. She didn't care about others or being a figurehead. In the end, she became the figurehead but she lost her sister. From Katniss' point of view, did she really accomplish anything? That's why the story is so good.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Not all romance is one thing. The romance was underlying but it most definitely propelled story. Without the romance, why the desperate need to get Peeta back in the final book? Without the romance, what brought Peeta around? Without the romance, what fueled Gale in the first place?
> The story was heavier than trying to save her butt. It was a story about the futility of war. Katniss volunteered to save her sister. She didn't care about others or being a figurehead. In the end, she became the figurehead but she lost her sister. From Katniss' point of view, did she really accomplish anything? That's why the story is so good.


To me it was about the first book only. The story really ended there for me. 2 & 3 were, "I got them hooked on book 1, now lets slosh this out to 2 more and complicate this thing. 3 was super sad for me when her sister got killed. Peeta in 3 - stick him in a looney ben and hope for the best - Katnis cares - but not that way - then to me - plot complication Collins drove in for the book. Had a hard time reading 2 and 3. But they were good still. Sans the movie ... how would the books do?

Twilight is almost the same way for me. Twilight was okay but a little slow, New Moon - slow and Bella goes nuits - not so good till the end. Eclipse was great. B-Dawn was  - the movie ending was the best - there actually was a battle the book did not have and I was waiting for it in the book ... and waiting ... and waiting ...

Take out the fluff, now how do you do all that with novellas? Can you? I think you can.


----------



## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

I have a novella, The Arborist, which does better than my full-length novel. It's a small sample size for both, though. 

I think shorter works do okay in horror. There's a bit of a resurgence in short novels in that genre in particular. A lot of well-known horror authors have said that it's the perfect length for horror, where it can be hard to maintain terror and tension over a longer work. I'd guess that full novels still sell better overall, but some genres may be more tolerant of shortness. 

As a reader, I'm all-in on novelettes and novellas. They usually still tell a full story, but leave me with more free time, and cost less, so it's practically like getting paid to read them! Sorta.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Eugene Kirk said:


> Just keep them all out of select. That's what I'm doing. I started a project writing a novella series a couple years ago. This is before I even looked into how to publish or market them. I'm now bundling them as short books. A novella and a couple shorts each book. It's structured more like a TV series, with each book being a self contained story.
> 
> The start was rough but they are starting to pick up traction after a free promo. No where close to a written to market book, but since my co-author does the cover, we produce these things for next to nothing. The sales of book 1 only average 3 a day, but the sell through is pretty good. It's a weird, not to market premise, so don't take my results as standard. I'd imagine anything written to market with the same format will probably do a lot better.
> 
> On the plus side the shorter structure and subject matter has caught the eye of a production company. So if anything, it could be the perfect format for a proof of concept for TV shows.


Thanks. Good luck! To write for film or not too? I say don't. Write the story you have in mind. Novel, novella, novelette = all the same thing to film ... if it is good, can they take it to film? Plenty of story there for film. If it is a short novel (ette or ella) there is plenty of room for the director to embellish with. 2 to 4 hours to read a novella. The film is 1.5 hours. Plenty of room.

My cover is Amazon Cover Creator, a book is about the ghost inside and not the cover. Cover should be cool of course.

I will contact Amazon on the Select singles and non-select anthology. But it may not matter as a factor in sells. If I even have any.

I used a lot of thoughts with my MC - it is easy to mislead or lead the reader. That is tough for film - but they have their tricks to fix that. But it is really effective in a story.

With novelettes and novellas I think I should try to really get into the MC's head as it helps keep the attention of the reader, as the story is not a full novel it is the device I use to help keep it moving. I switch from 1st Omni and then to 3rd Objective chapter to chapter depends on the scene and the characters in it ... I have no idea if this will be liked or not. It is a Teen Tween type book ... maybe a bit deep for that ... so romance is a blushing thing and mostly on story.

'The Host' (Meyer) had to be an experiment, funny but good ... Wanderer goes Schitzo with Melany in her head. But the story was good. "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" on steroids. My wife was laughing as she watched the movie. I was okay with the movie, but she thought it was goofy. She is a Daniel Steele fan too. Meyer is too far out there for her I think.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> You are right.
> 
> I guess when I said "wide" I really meant 'not Select' on Amazon only for the collection. I have no idea if that will work. Now I am not sure you can even do that. If you know or anyone else knows let me know. I am not near that point though. Give it a year. Or "Contact Us" on Amazon can give me the canned response ...


As far as I know, you can have individual stories in Select and a box set or anthology not in Select but exclusive to Amazon, and that should be totally fine. Just never forget and take something wide that's still in Select, because exclusivity is something Amazon seems to take very seriously.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> YA is good if they would stay away from the silly romance  light relationships is fine but don't go there too often or too long ... I get bored ... it should be about the story plot and MC ... yadda yadda.


Actually, MG books tend to be much more about straight plot. MG readers want the action, the adventure, the next plot point without getting bogged down. If, on the other hand, you're going to read YA, then you'd better be ready for lots of feels, because adolescence is all about the feels, the emotions, the angst, and therefore, YA novels tend to have a lot of those things in them.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Phronk said:


> I have a novella, The Arborist, which does better than my full-length novel. It's a small sample size for both, though.
> 
> I think shorter works do okay in horror. There's a bit of a resurgence in short novels in that genre in particular. A lot of well-known horror authors have said that it's the perfect length for horror, where it can be hard to maintain terror and tension over a longer work. I'd guess that full novels still sell better overall, but some genres may be more tolerant of shortness.
> 
> As a reader, I'm all-in on novelettes and novellas. They usually still tell a full story, but leave me with more free time, and cost less, so it's practically like getting paid to read them! Sorta.


Okay, I am retired. So I took a look at The Arboris - look-inside ... interesting ... You have chapters 2-5 squeezed in there with tiny font. You mean to do that?

85 pages. Novelette.

You are using standard paragraph technique. Everyone does it seems. To me that is a bit old fashioned - but that is me. If a reader I think is reading on a phone - block paragraph to me is a lot easier on the eyes and the flow is what kids expect. No indents.

The Kindle pre-viewer lets you see all devices. I like block. I also use Kindle Creator for the final build. So I know exactly what the reader will see.

Redrum ... "Here's Johnny!" from King's 'The Shining' --- Murder!

Yes. I think I could do horror. I am existential so I have to make it believable. I might give it a try later. I think you are right. Horror has to be fast and quick.

ooooo I just noticed this ... COOL FREAKING COVER! Nice effect.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Actually, MG books tend to be much more about straight plot. MG readers want the action, the adventure, the next plot point without getting bogged down. If, on the other hand, you're going to read YA, then you'd better be ready for lots of feels, because adolescence is all about the feels, the emotions, the angst, and therefore, YA novels tend to have a lot of those things in them.


Thanks. Good to hear! MG = what? (Male Gender ?)

--- just about plot for MG, yes. As a guy, I can't pull off well - 'feels' - depends on what you mean by 'feels' where do you stop for a 13 year old, we talking sexual, or active attractive emotional thing, for empathy with the MC's feelings? Mix and match, but a short novel means you can't wander too far and stay on plot. Pick one - tease with the others depending on the work. Don't know.

My MC is wise and smart but a bit naïve as to what she is, a girl that looks to good to be 16 (I mislead the reader), but she has a gift she wants to exploit (a naïve pursuit - not a feel feel thing though ) she lies a lot and is naïve to it, the reader sees it or should, but the MC does not, she gets some freedom - tries to exploit her ability and it ruins her in the end.

Lots of what I hope is expectations, emotional twist, and suspense. That is a 'feel' thing too if that is what you also mean but it is more existential and has an emotional element to it. I think male or female will like this story. I hope so ... if not, see if I can find out what is wrong, and I try again.

Females tend to not like adventure and straight plot I think, I do like twists and wonder at what will come next with a good female MC. those good reads are rare to find though. I've read a couple good female MC novels - new authors - I really liked the MC ... one was too zany. The other wandered off into exploring a relationship and to me it got off course with the story. I am sure the author brought it back, but I stopped. I guess pick it back up and plow through till it is back on plot.

But a novel does that ... fluffy fill in to me ... you can't do that with a short novel and sell it. JMO.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> Thanks. Good to hear! MG = what? (Male Gender ?)
> 
> --- just about plot for MG, yes. As a guy, I can't pull off well - 'feels' - depends on what you mean by 'feels' where do you stop for a 13 year old, we talking sexual, or active attractive emotional thing, for empathy with the MC's feelings? Mix and match, but a short novel means you can't wander too far and stay on plot. Pick one - tease with the others depending on the work. Don't know.
> 
> ...


MG = middle grade.

By 'feels', I mean emotions. And especially the big, extreme, over-the-top emotions that teenagers tend to have when the hormones kick in and they start to experience things like first love, and jealousy, and sorrow, and doubt, and all that fluffy stuff that tends to show up a lot in romance novels.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> MG = middle grade.
> 
> By 'feels', I mean emotions. And especially the big, extreme, over-the-top emotions that teenagers tend to have when the hormones kick in and they start to experience things like first love, and jealousy, and sorrow, and doubt, and all that fluffy stuff that tends to show up a lot in romance novels.


Yes MG is my audience but it can go to YA too. We'll see what works. If I miss, I can try again. This one has the love (general happy sort, humor), discovering that you have something no one else has, then shock, and a deep sorrow, then anger, and a sense of loss angle. Da da THE END.

I was hoping you meant emotions. I want them to believe and live in the MC's shoes and say "No! No! Don't do that! It's a trick! Run!" And they can't stop reading and hope she gets away ... etc. Being a novella, they can stick with it. 2 to 3 hours I bet.

The story is a play on some ideas from H.G. Wells for kids and YA. Lessons to be learned kind of thing.

I guess it sounds like I am writing my own review  but the book detail will cover this too ...IF AMAZON EVER RELEASES THE BOOK! Give it time, on the buying end - Amazon is pretty quick to deliver, this end of the deal is a bit of a tangle for some reason.

I get the feeling they sort of treat writers like dirt. Maybe the "Contact Us" responders are jealous, trained that way, it too seems they may have too many incoming messages and are just directing traffic it seems. Then at times I get a response from a person that seems genuine and wants to help. I don't know. It is still in this 72 hour Limbo Land (for the 3rd time).

Some day ...


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> Yes MG is my audience but it can go to YA too. We'll see what works. If I miss, I can try again. This one has the love (general happy sort, humor), discovering that you have something no one else has, then shock, and a deep sorrow, then anger, and a sense of loss angle. Da da THE END.
> 
> I was hoping you meant emotions. I want them to believe and live in the MC's shoes and say "No! No! Don't do that! It's a trick! Run!" And they can't stop reading and hope she gets away ... etc. Being a novella, they can stick with it. 2 to 3 hours I bet.
> 
> The story is a play on some ideas from H.G. Wells for kids and YA. Lessons to be learned kind of thing.


The thing is, kids and YA cover a rather large age range, and the stories they like can be very different. Middle grade is for ages 8 - 12, and YA is for ages 12 - 18, and each category is designed to be of interest to those age categories. Middle grade tends to be external, and spends very little time inside the character's heads, while YA is much more internal and introspective. There's also the fact that most kids like to 'read up' - which means they like to read about characters that are older than themselves. But young middle grade kids don't generally want to read about things like kissing and relationships, because at that age the opposite gender usually has cooties, so there's a limit to how 'up' they want to read.

Basically, all that was to say that it will probably help you out a lot if you know what your target audience wants and does not want.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> The thing is, kids and YA cover a rather large age range, and the stories they like can be very different. Middle grade is for ages 8 - 12, and YA is for ages 12 - 18, and each category is designed to be of interest to those age categories. Middle grade tends to be external, and spends very little time inside the character's heads, while YA is much more internal and introspective. There's also the fact that most kids like to 'read up' - which means they like to read about characters that are older than themselves. But young middle grade kids don't generally want to read about things like kissing and relationships, because at that age the opposite gender usually has cooties, so there's a limit to how 'up' they want to read.
> 
> Basically, all that was to say that it will probably help you out a lot if you know what your target audience wants and does not want.


Can't sleep yet ... sounds like you are into short novels. I will peek at your books.

Yes. I am shooting 12 to 16 maybe. No kissing ... a tiny bit of flirting.

H Potter was a kids book. Yet adults read it too. I didn't like it. So who knows? My MC has to make some really grown up decisions and does some natural dumb adult things and has natural adult or older kids motives. She is 16, and they think they know it all, limits be damned, etc. So a 12 year old can read up in this and feel comfortable. A Syfy reader I hope sees it as a strange new take on the science end of it. Light syfy, you can't dwell too much on the science in a novella or novelette - set it up - then use it.

And if H Potter can be read by anyone, well there you are.

Short Novel is way easier to make. Making it good and feel much bigger is a trick. We all shoot for that.

"Shoot low! They're riding Shetlands! "


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

ShayneRutherford said:


> The thing is, kids and YA cover a rather large age range, and the stories they like can be very different. Middle grade is for ages 8 - 12, and YA is for ages 12 - 18, and each category is designed to be of interest to those age categories. Middle grade tends to be external, and spends very little time inside the character's heads, while YA is much more internal and introspective. There's also the fact that most kids like to 'read up' - which means they like to read about characters that are older than themselves. But young middle grade kids don't generally want to read about things like kissing and relationships, because at that age the opposite gender usually has cooties, so there's a limit to how 'up' they want to read.
> 
> Basically, all that was to say that it will probably help you out a lot if you know what your target audience wants and does not want.


Yes. It's really really important to know exactly who you are aiming at. My books have lots of kissing and my characters are 16 / 17. But I quickly discovered that the bulk of my readers are in fact 12 and 13. So I had to make the books 'cleaner'. Those young MG/Teen girls just love a high school romance. Research and adjust if necessary. Wattpad can help you with this, you can identify who is reading and enjoying quite quickly.

But it sounds like you aren't even sure of your genre let alone your audience? Short horror is definitely a thing, as is short erotica, and some short sci-fi. But they are all pretty different genres!

Maybe listen to some podcasts with T.S Paul, he's made a lot of money cranking out short books. He writes in a variety of genres and basically does what he likes, but he writes fast and publishes often.


----------



## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Lee Carlon said:


> Hey Eugene. Have you taken them wide yet, and do you think that's helping? I've read a few comments that suggest shorter work don't do so well in KU.


I've taken them out but haven't taken them wide as yet. For me, it's not so much of an advantage since I can't go direct to many of the retailers being outside the US. I'd have to use D2D. But, the main advantage I see here is landing a book bub easier being wide.

So while I may or may not make money wide, I certainly am seeing more income being out of KU and just selling normally on amazon. I plan to make an omnibus next and try to land a bookbub with that. I've heard omnibus editions do well on other platforms and have a higher price tolerance. Just deciding now if I'll do 2 omnibuses or 1 and what to price them at.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Have many of you published a collection of novelettes in one book? How did it fare? Or did you do them as a series of separate books?


----------



## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

I deleted 20 short stories, some of them novelettes to tidy up my brand as I gravitated to full length, but I left 12 of them in a compilation. I did one recently for a charity anthology that'll be published at the end of August.

I couldn't bring myself to delete Amnesia which is a paranormal/ghost/Sci-fi techy story with a touch of the romantic, but I'll delete it when I publish my next full length. It's around 10/11k words. 6 reviews at 4.6 average. I hardlly ever sell any as you can see with its 2 million +rank. You'd never guess at what the bubbles in the gif represent, but you're welcome to try, lol.

I'll probably write more at sometime and add it to a compilation with some of the others I deleted.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006IYRQRW 99c

I deleted this 10,000 word story. It never sold more 2 or 3 copies and no reviews. I loved it, but then I would










The text on the gif is because the software is a trial. As you can see I haven't mastered it.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Decon said:


> I deleted 20 short stories, some of them novelettes to tidy up my brand as I gravitated to full length, but I left 12 of them in a compilation. I did one recently for a charity anthology that'll be published at the end of August.
> 
> I couldn't bring myself to delete Amnesia which is a paranormal/ghost/Sci-fi techy story with a touch of the romantic, but I'll delete it when I publish my next full length. It's around 10/11k words. 6 reviews at 4.6 average. I hardlly ever sell any as you can see with its 2 million +rank. You'd never guess at what the bubbles in the gif represent, but you're welcome to try, lol.
> 
> ...


You seem to have deleted a lot of stories. Was it only because of the stories you did it, or the whole package?


----------



## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> People often complain that today's youth have very little concentration span. I wonder if novelettes will become more popular.


People talk about short attention spans all the time, and how this should make short works popular. So far, I haven't seen any evidence of readers appreciating shorts outside of erotica. There are a few exceptions, as there always are, but exceptions shouldn't influence business plans.

I personally prefer to write shorter, so it's sad to me that you can't really do well with short stuff, even in collections. I may try doing some horror at novella length, just to see how it goes (longish novellas). Also some in SF, though I really don't think it would go over well outside of magazines.


----------



## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> Okay, I am retired. So I took a look at The Arboris - look-inside ... interesting ... You have chapters 2-5 squeezed in there with tiny font. You mean to do that?
> 
> 85 pages. Novelette.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for taking a look! Glad you like the cover and it inspired you to consider horror. Perhaps I'm biased, but I think it's one of the most fun genres. 

Not to get too off-topic, but the issues with the font size and layout are because of a bug on Amazon's side. It looks awful in Look Inside, but is perfectly fine on every actual Kindle device or app. Apparently it has to do with Look Inside ignoring each chapter's style settings. More on that here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=240138.0

I should try to fix that, though, since I probably lose potential readers who think it actually looks like that. Thanks again for the reminder!


----------



## David R. Larson (Aug 3, 2017)

AlexaGrave said:


> My hope is that I can eventually balance both writing what I want and making a little money. Pipe dream?


I hope not because this is definitely what I'm going for too.


----------



## Guest (Aug 19, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> You can check them out in my website link below.


I love your site! Doesn't appear to be Wordpess or I would be looking for that theme.

I don't read romance, but I love your covers too - very nice work!


----------



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Evenstar said:


> Yes. It's really really important to know exactly who you are aiming at. My books have lots of kissing and my characters are 16 / 17. But I quickly discovered that the bulk of my readers are in fact 12 and 13. So I had to make the books 'cleaner'. Those young MG/Teen girls just love a high school romance. Research and adjust if necessary. Wattpad can help you with this, you can identify who is reading and enjoying quite quickly.


Wouldn't these teenagers then just switch to adult romances or erotica? I know I did by age ten or eleven, across all genres.


----------



## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

According to the word count thresholds in this thread, I've written a bunch of novelettes, some of which are in anthologies, and others self-pubbed. Mixed fortunes, to be honest. One sold all of 7 copies, so I yanked it and I believe it's going out in an anthology in the New Year. Another (Neil's Farrago) was sort of topical when it came out, so sold OK, but has virtually flatlined this year.

Last month my first 30K novella went live, though, and I've got to say I've not looked back (an unspectacular but personally gratifying 70 sales, 10 paperbacks, and KU reads through the roof). I have another ~40K thing coming out later in the year, and I can't wait to see how it does.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Will Edwards said:


> I love your site! Doesn't appear to be Wordpess or I would be looking for that theme.
> 
> I don't read romance, but I love your covers too - very nice work!


It's Weebly. one of their free themes. I'm pretty sure it's called "classic".


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> What is your criteria for a novelette?
> 
> I did extremely well with YA novellas for a long time. (15 - 35k)
> 
> ...


$2k/mo is super great! But you have a huge offering so that makes sense. I checked your in-side from your site. You write well. All girly stuff ... but some people like that.

There are word count cut-off points for shorts, ettes, ellas, and novels. To me >12k and <40k is a short novel. I like to hit 15k to 20k range (my first and only is 18k maybe). Or that is the plan.

If they are 3 continuing short novels like this of the same character (series), I will create one book of the 3 short novels = ~50k words, and if I continue with the same main character and theme, do it again, and now each 50k book will be a Chronicle I,II,III and so on.

You have each single out there, and then offer the box set chronicle of 3 singles each. Maybe all the singles of the first chronicle and a single on the starting of the next chronicle you are working on also offered to Select. KU can pickup the singles, but not the chronicles. After a long time of being out there, make the chronicles also Select (older KU people has had a chance to pick up all singles; so, much later - KU readers can pick up all chronicles.)

So it is a process of how to offer your product I think. I have no idea what works best - but that is the plan. At some point, I think you have to move on to something new. Leave all the singles of the first chronicle out there and then all the chronicles, and work on new stuff. Don't know. You are in two markets at the same time. Really 3, wide buyers, KU, and Prime (not sure if Prime is KENPC but it should be).

The chronicles are just continuing stories, series, but it is not all a single plot. 3 different plots in each chronicle. Conan, Tarzan was like that.

Lots of great short, single standalone single short novels too, Wells' 'The Time Machine' etc.

From days of old, Marvel, DC, Vampirella mag, Creepy mag, etc were all continuing comic series. I could not wait for the next mag to come out. Read and reread each one.

Best of luck! What are you doing now?


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

A quick question about novelettes. Can I put (Kindle Single) in my title or inside my ebook? Or do I need Amazon's permission?


----------



## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> $2k/mo is super great! But you have a huge offering so that makes sense. I checked your in-side from your site. You write well. All girly stuff ... but some people like that.


Could you sound any more dismissive and condescending?


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

wearywanderer64 said:


> A quick question about novelettes. Can I put (Kindle Single) in my title or inside my ebook? Or do I need Amazon's permission?


I would do a preface and explain things there ... what has been done ... and maybe what you plan. Don't know. JMO


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

MladenR said:


> The novel is different. First, you're dealing with four or five PoV characters (given you're not writing in first person and you're not writing from the god's eye perspective which is boring).


Congratulations; this is the silliest thing I've read today.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

AlexaGrave said:


> I agree that short stories/novelettes take less time than a novel, even if the total word counts equal out in the end.
> 
> When I write shorter, I seem to get most of it "right" the first draft, so revisions go rather quickly. For novel length work, though, dealing with many threads, I screw up more often in that first draft so it takes more time to fix everything when I revise (I'm also a pantser, which could contribute).
> 
> ...


Alright, you made me look, 'Hell Hath no Fury..." Cool cover! Sexy! ... and the ghost-inside (your writing) ... you have me laughing right away ... very well done!

43 pages though. Short story longish. It's not Select ... and you're asking $1.99 for a short (yes I know, the balance of the work to payback and royalty rate ... there is not a good middle ground for short work - short, ette, or ella

... so how is that working out for you (I know you said not too well)? Well enough I hope, as I would have more hope in my plans.

But I would think KU would be all over this story! They pick it up for free - so size does not matter - and you get the KENPC and followers - you are that good from the little that I read.

Was it Select before and you took it off?

I understand, the full novel seems to me to be a death march ... why should I make myself endure so much pain. I love shorts like yours, I do okay, but I think I may be a lot better with the ettes and ellas - those are more like novels and you build the story so it twists and turns like a novel. You can draft them quickly like I say.

But unlike you, I have ripped chapters out ... paragraphs disappear from the page en mass ... after awhile it starts to take a more likable feel to it. And then after more editing you find "you instead of your - your instead of you're - to instead of too - since instead of sense ---

it leads to pain --- and I've discovered editing you own work is fighting the worst demon I've ever know.


----------



## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

wearywanderer64 said:


> You seem to have deleted a lot of stories. Was it only because of the stories you did it, or the whole package?


I published 12 of them as a compilation and sold it at 99c (65,000 words) It hit the top 5 in the UK for anthologies for the best part of the year and with 3/400 downloads per month, rubbing shoulders in the charts with Agatha Christie, Stephen King, and Lee Child, it earned a good chunk of money back them (2011). I added more standalone shorts and then came up with the bright idea of publishing the ones in the compilation individually at 99c and put up the price of the compilation. It was all downhill from there. I had one last try at new covers, but when that didn't work, I deleted them all except for Amnesia, and some of them I'd had translated to Portuguese. The compilation never gained traction again.

The thing is that before I deleted them, as I said, to tidy up my offering, I had 5 full length books out, but when readers hit my page it was a mixed bag of full length and shorts. That was another reason I deleted them. There was nothing wrong with them, but I wanted to project myself as a full-length story writer. It's not like I've lost them, and when I get time, and write a few more, I'll publish a second compilation. I would never publish single shorts again, which is why the last one I wrote I gave it to a charity publication, but that's just me from my experience.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Thanks for that info. I'm going under a pen name as I want a fresh start. I wish I'd done that at the beginning of my fledgling (it still is) writing career.


----------



## MladenR (Jul 1, 2017)

SevenDays said:


> Congratulations; this is the silliest thing I've read today.


I'm not sure I understand


----------



## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> Whoa? And you make more than that? I, so far, have $15 from several years ago and nixed the experiment - I expected zero. I just wanted to see if I could navigate the Kindle format and release something. I created a 3D interactive maze as a playable game as a Kindle book 100 rooms. It worked, and I sold a few ... go figure. But I was only testing it out to see if it would work. Previewer was fine. Actual release was fine. Long deleted the work years ago.
> 
> For short works, she has done great I think - especially in that genre! I have no idea of the audience size. But $2k/mo is not pocket change. She has a lot of them tho too. It adds up. But too, I am saying I do not read that genre.
> 
> I didn't mean it to sound condescending.


Actually, I make quite a bit _less _than that.


----------



## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

wearywanderer64 said:


> People often complain that today's youth have very little concentration span. I wonder if novelettes will become more popular. Saying that, how are today's comics/ comic strips holding out. I used to love them as a kid e.g. Beano, Dandy (Scottish comics by DC) and others whose names have escaped me.


This is spot on regarding today's youth. I haven't been on Wattpad for a month, but there was a short story book called Ask Amy it had hundreds of thousands of reads and was in and out of the top 5 on there. There were others similar. I think she earns from it on there. Anyway, long and short is the chapters were no more than a few paragraphs, mostly with images of texting. I found it addictive and couldn't stop turning the pages. Long and short is I had my own idea with more narrative to make it more kindle friendly, but still with images, and I uploaded a WIP.

From that I had a company contact me wanting me to collaborate with 1500 word stories entirely as text speak. I didn't take them up on it, but I found a company who does something similar for really basic comic strips and some of the guys and gals on there are making good bank.

The problem is that kindle isn't really set up for it as a platform because of the delivery cost for images, which is why I tried out a few chapters with more narrative, though still very short chapters. The other thing is if you write for teenagers, will they have Amazon account and have an income to pay for them?

Anyway, it's called... Manor High: Safe Zone. You can see it here to get an idea what I'm talking about. Love to hear what you think.

https://www.wattpad.com/myworks/115125513-manor-high-safe-zone

If I was to go ahead and finish it, I'd use a different Pen name to Declan Conner to publish it.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

wearywanderer64 said:


> A quick question about novelettes. Can I put (Kindle Single) in my title or inside my ebook? Or do I need Amazon's permission?


Was your story accepted into the Kindle Singles program?


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> Alright, you made me look, 'Hell Hath no Fury..." Cool cover! Sexy! ... and the ghost-inside (your writing) ... you have me laughing right away ... very well done!
> 
> 43 pages though. Short story longish. It's not Select ... and you're asking $1.99 for a short (yes I know, the balance of the work to payback and royalty rate ... there is not a good middle ground for short work - short, ette, or ella
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking a look. I still do consider that a novelette. I go by the SFWA numbers, which are also in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_count I have others that are short stories (some are on that 7500 line, but some go down to around 5000) that I do sell for 99 cents. Honestly, I like to experiment with cost, and $1.99 will at least give me room to do a sale if I want to in the future.

_Hell Hath No Fury_ was in Select for at least 3 months (I forget right now if I did a little longer with that one). It got some page reads, but not tons. I also don't do a lot of promos/advertising with my short work, so much of it is organic, which is one reason why sales are low. I am a super prawn, so right now being a virtual unknown doesn't help with my novel even let alone my short stuff.

I do plan to put the sequel, _Hell On Wheels_, up in Select for 3 months only when I release it in September. It may be part of a series, but it can be read as a stand alone - there is one person referenced in it who was in the first title only, but it's not core to the second story. So I'm not too worried about the first one not being in Select. And I was actually going to play around with the $2.99 price point since it'll be over 16k.

My short stories and novelettes started as a way to build my backlist for the most part. Though I haven't sold much at all, part of me is hoping I'll see more sales when I slowly gather fans through novels. And for now, if someone finds one story of mine that they like, at least there are other options out there with other stories!

I'll have more novels eventually, and I'll likely combine many of my short stories into collections in the future and then take down some of the singles, but I don't ever see myself stopping writing shorter works. They've always been my way to experiment, and a short story or novelette can really pack a punch if done right.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Decon said:


> This is spot on regarding today's youth. I haven't been on Wattpad for a month, but there was a short story book called Ask Amy it had hundreds of thousands of reads and was in and out of the top 5 on there. There were others similar. I think she earns from it on there. Anyway, long and short is the chapters were no more than a few paragraphs, mostly with images of texting. I found it addictive and couldn't stop turning the pages. Long and short is I had my own idea with more narrative to make it more kindle friendly, but still with images, and I uploaded a WIP.
> 
> From that I had a company contact me wanting me to collaborate with 1500 word stories entirely as text speak. I didn't take them up on it, but I found a company who does something similar for really basic comic strips and some of the guys and gals on there are making good bank.
> 
> ...


hey Decon,

Is 'Girl in the Window' yours? I follow Kindle Scout. This book has appeared before several months back on Kindle Scout. So try it again huh? ... Poor darling ... from the opening paragraphs.

Your point on 'if kids have accounts on Amazon' is a good one. I guess they do Or the parent has the account and the kids load up and download books --- a KU account probably and get permission for a pay for book --- but KU is wide open for kids. Parent knows and has that cap on spending - KU is the perfect fit I would think to keep kids busy reading. But kids get books I am sure.

As to the message stories. Yeah, I hear it is taking off. To me it is really RPG as a story. My book is block paragraph format. Short novel and should read well on a phone. It looks good on the previewer in any format. To me standard paragraph and indents is old school. It runs together and looks funny to me --- show me a paragraph or idea and blank space after... don't know - could just be me. I don't see many that do that. But for a short novel on a phone - it is what the readers on phones expect.

These messages we see on message boards are block paragraphs. Read what you like to see and expect maybe? Can't hurt to try.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

MladenR said:


> The novel is different. First, you're dealing with four or five PoV characters (given you're not writing in first person...


I'm not sure where you're getting your rules, but neither of those statements is necessarily true. Just because you're writing a novel doesn't mean you need four or five points of view. And just because a story has a first person POV doesn't mean you're limited to only one.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

AlexaGrave said:


> Thanks for taking a look. I still do consider that a novelette. I go by the SFWA numbers, which are also in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_count I have others that are short stories (some are on that 7500 line, but some go down to around 5000) that I do sell for 99 cents. Honestly, I like to experiment with cost, and $1.99 will at least give me room to do a sale if I want to in the future.
> 
> _Hell Hath No Fury_ was in Select for at least 3 months (I forget right now if I did a little longer with that one). It got some page reads, but not tons. I also don't do a lot of promos/advertising with my short work, so much of it is organic, which is one reason why sales are low. I am a super prawn, so right now being a virtual unknown doesn't help with my novel even let alone my short stuff.
> 
> ...


I like to just be over into the novella line Alexa. Really it is a novel. On the drafting of it a lot of really short story effects play in my head, would they MC do this, or that, how would I write that. But I don't write the short for it - but it helps me imagine and develop the draft as I write from what I think. So I am throwing up on the pages and clean up the mess later.

The poor draft get ripped to shreds as I make it all fit and make sense.

I really don't think shorts do well anymore. That age has come and gone. Ettes, if they hammer good and fast will work here.

I can't figure why you would give up Select for direct. I will be Select. My direct price will be $2.99. At 17k words, I don't think anyone will let go of $2.99.

At $0.99 it is 30% royalty. 30 cents less 15 cents delivery = nothing for you. $1.50 and you might as well stay with $2.99 and stay 70% royalty.

Amazon has you figured out already. Stay Select as an unknown author. Pages read = pages read and cash in the bank. Maybe not much but some.

So for short novels it is almost you have to be Select seems to me.


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> I can't figure why you would give up Select for direct. I will be Select.


It's really a, "To each their own," approach. I didn't want to stay in Select. The reads I got were in the first month pretty much. I never wanted to stay all in with my writing for Select, and I have my reasons... but that is a topic for another thread (one which has popped up many times).

For me, the short stuff I write is short because that's how long the story needs to be. I don't like to pad, and I tell the story in the length I feel it fits the best.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Was your story accepted into the Kindle Singles program?


Interesting. I set mine up as a single. More will follow with the same MC, if it does okay and puts joy back in my heart that looks like a little $.

I get 3 done I make an anthology of the 3.

It is really a series IF I do it. As it is it can be a single.

So can I on the second book change the first book to a series work ... publish the change and upload?

You seem to know some Amazon fine points, it seems to me. Should I have declared a series on the first book, and Amazon love me more?


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> Interesting. I set mine up as a single. More will follow with the same MC, if it does okay and puts joy back in my heart that looks like a little $.
> 
> I get 3 done I make an anthology of the 3.
> 
> ...


Okay, so there seems to be some confusion here. Kindle Singles isn't just something that you call your book because you feel like it. It's an Amazon program that you have to submit your story to. It has a low acceptance rate - like, I'm guessing quite a bit less than 1% kind of low - and I suspect that Amazon would take a very dim view of someone calling their book a Kindle Single when it isn't.


----------



## MladenR (Jul 1, 2017)

Markus Croft said:


> What you said isn't true, even a little bit.


I was thinking and as more as I thought about it the more ashamed I was. Yeah, I just said a complete lie by accident 

And you're right. I'm a fantasy geek but I read across all the genres as I had nothing else to do as a kid but to read and write


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> Interesting. I set mine up as a single. More will follow with the same MC, if it does okay and puts joy back in my heart that looks like a little $.
> 
> I get 3 done I make an anthology of the 3.
> 
> ...


You can change your first books details to make it a series, give it a series title and book 1, then upload the second book with the same series title and book 2. The first book can be changed easily enough by just edited the details and clicking the publish button. My first series started life as a standalone novel and ended up as six books.

But, you cannot refer to any book as a single in Amazon because the Kindle Singles program is one in which you must submit to Amazon and see if they will accept it as a Kindle Single.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Was your story accepted into the Kindle Singles program?


I haven't tried. But others have answered the question. It seems to be a purely Amazon thing.


----------



## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

Picky Android said:


> hey Decon,
> 
> Is 'Girl in the Window' yours? I follow Kindle Scout. This book has appeared before several months back on Kindle Scout. So try it again huh? ... Poor darling ... from the opening paragraphs.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Girl in the Window on Kindle Scout is mine. Six days left, then I get my life back. I had it on Wattpad for ages in full and got quite a few full reads and feedback. I've deleted all but the opening chapter now on there. I managed to get it to the top 50 on Wattpad for thrillers, which takes some doing with grown up stories.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Okay, so there seems to be some confusion here. Kindle Singles isn't just something that you call your book because you feel like it. It's an Amazon program that you have to submit your story to. It has a low acceptance rate - like, I'm guessing quite a bit less than 1% kind of low - and I suspect that Amazon would take a very dim view of someone calling their book a Kindle Single when it isn't.


And there is the rub maybe. I just said, "Yup; it is a single stand alone (I did not hit series)," and hit publish. Versus a series as it really might be. Over 2 weeks and they have not pub'ed feigning tech problems ... so get them to push it back to draft and repub as a series should get it released.

So the choice is 'it is a series' or 'it is not (thus a single?)' ... and singles get super picked over? I am seeing this right?

There must be some other options I am hitting that is hanging this up. I see so many novella out there ... what am I doing wrong I wonder.


----------



## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> And there is the rub maybe. I just said, "Yup; it is a single stand alone," and hit publish. Versus a series as it really might be. Over 2 weeks and they have not pub'ed feigning tech problems ... so get them to push it back to draft and repub as a series should get it released.


I'm not sure you understand how it works. The question of whether your book is a standalone or a single is probably not going to cause problems in publishing, although I could be wrong about that. But Kindle Singles is a program that requires you to submit your work and hope it is selected. There a many, many standalone books and stories published on Amazon that are _not _part of Kindle Singles. Being part of Kindle Singles has _nothing whatsoever _to do with being able to publish or not. I strongly doubt that Amazon is "feigning tech problems" as an excuse not to release your book.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> And there is the rub maybe. I just said, "Yup; it is a single stand alone (I did not hit series)," and hit publish. Versus a series as it really might be. Over 2 weeks and they have not pub'ed feigning tech problems ... so get them to push it back to draft and repub as a series should get it released.
> 
> So the choice is 'it is a series' or 'it is not (thus a single?)' ... and singles get super picked over? I am seeing this right?
> 
> There must be some other options I am hitting that is hanging this up. I see so many novella out there ... what am I doing wrong I wonder.


If it's not gone through to publishing, it could well be because you have single in your titles and details. If there is something wrong with it, you will have got an email from Amazon so if you haven't, check your spam folder.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

LadyG said:


> I'm not sure you understand how it works. The question of whether your book is a standalone or a single is probably not going to cause problems in publishing, although I could be wrong about that. But Kindle Singles is a program that requires you to submit your work and hope it is selected. There a many, many standalone books and stories published on Amazon that are _not _part of Kindle Singles. Being part of Kindle Singles has _nothing whatsoever _to do with being able to publish or not. I strongly doubt that Amazon is "feigning tech problems" as an excuse not to release your book.


Thanks. I did not see a 'Submit to Singles program' in the '...' of the bookshelf - So it must be available to select that after you've published it, yes?


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> Thanks. I did not see a 'Submit to Singles program' in the '...' of the bookshelf - So it must be available to select that after you've published it, yes?


No, you won't find it on your bookshelf. It is a completely separate program. I was trying to find it via help, but there was no response. I wonder if, perhaps they have discontinued it. Either way, it has nothing to do with select.


----------



## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> Thanks. I did not see a 'Submit to Singles program' in the '...' of the bookshelf - So it must be available to select that after you've published it, yes?


I just went to the Kindle Singles submission page (https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?&docId=1000700491) and found a message that says:


> Kindle Singles is not accepting unsolicited manuscripts at this time. Our editors will respond to all submissions currently in the queue as of June 22nd, 2017.


I'm sorry. I didn't realize they had closed submissions. For the record, most of my works are novellas, and I have tried to get some of the shortest ones in the Singles program with no luck. Once they start accepting submissions again, it's always worth trying. Best of luck to you!


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

LadyG said:


> I just went to the Kindle Singles submission page (https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?&docId=1000700491) and found a message that says:
> 
> I'm sorry. I didn't realize they had closed submissions. For the record, most of my works are novellas, and I have tried to get some of the shortest ones in the Singles program with no luck. Once they start accepting submissions again, it's always worth trying. Best of luck to you!


Well, you were luckier than me. I couldn't find it! I submitted a novella to kindle singles four years ago and I'm still waiting for a response!


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> So the choice is 'it is a series' or 'it is not (thus a single?)' ... and singles get super picked over? I am seeing this right?


No, you're not seeing this right. Think of it this way: a book is either part of a series, or a standalone. It's never a single unless it was accepted to the Kindle Singles program.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Doglover said:


> If it's not gone through to publishing, it could well be because you have single in your titles and details. If there is something wrong with it, you will have got an email from Amazon so if you haven't, check your spam folder.


Thanks DL. I don't think it is the 'single' thing now - but I will check all input fields again. I would think Amazon would let me know it that is it. But I think the first responders actually just direct traffic - they know nothing. It is just a novella I am publishing. Nothing special. I've tried three time now. It goes live ... and says publishing updates ... and never does anything.

I will hit series this time ... but that involves another 72 hours after they push it back to draft ... and likely again it will go to limbo land.

I wonder, there is an person selling music with my same name - we just have the same first and last name. Happens. I need to get Amazon to see if that is the issue. It could be the tangle I am hitting.

Oh well, eventually. I do have some small changes, so get those in too. The cleaner the work the better the experience.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> Thanks DL. I don't think it is the 'single' thing now - but I will check all input fields again. I would think Amazon would let me know it that is it. But I think the first responders actually just direct traffic - they know nothing. It is just a novella I am publishing. Nothing special. I've tried three time now. It goes live ... and says publishing updates ... and never does anything.
> 
> I will hit series this time ... but that involves another 72 hours after they push it back to draft ... and likely again it will go to limbo land.
> 
> ...


No, that won't be it. There are many authors who share the same name as other authors, even one called Stephen King and another called Robert Goddard. If it's not publishing, there is something else and you need to know what. I suggest you use the contact us link at the bottom of the kdp page and ask.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Doglover said:


> No, that won't be it. There are many authors who share the same name as other authors, even one called Stephen King and another called Robert Goddard. If it's not publishing, there is something else and you need to know what. I suggest you use the contact us link at the bottom of the kdp page and ask.


That is what I figured too. I have an inbox full of 'contact us' messages --- pretty canned messages :

"Hello,

Thanks for taking the time to contact Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP).

I see that my colleague is following up with you in resolving this issue. I have forwarded your message to my colleague and he'll contact you with an update as soon as possible.

We appreciate your patience.

Regards, "

Ehhh, they do stay in contact --- it is more, "We remember you have an issue and have not forgotten you".

I have no idea what is amiss. But follow up is not happening ... these guys must have lots of tech issues and I am just one and only represent 1 book. I suspect the other issues they have are tangles of very many books - likely the scam, botbooks, category and sorting problems, etc. Sort of fix, 'the bigger issues first', their bosses have their boots on their necks. So something weird has been going on for over 2 weeks now.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

You wouldn't believe how annoyed I get at reading novels that have added scenes just so they get a good word count. As one poster here said, I've seen unnecessary pages of description,actions and other stuff when they could easily have cut it short and moved on to the next scene.


----------



## Lucian (Jun 8, 2014)

My novelette, Stealing Huckleberry has fallen and can't get up.
8,800 words
Female lead (Insurance Recovery Agent)
I'm going to change the genre it's in to see if that helps. Women's Adventure-Humor
Wrote it to scratch a creative itch.
Thanks for asking.
https://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Huckleberry-Lucian-ebook/dp/B073HFQ3JF/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8


----------



## Tim C. Taylor (May 17, 2011)

wearywanderer64 said:


> What about your novelettes? Are they doing well?


Published one earlier this year (10k words - military science fiction). It was written originally as a bonus for the mailing list that was also a link between two series I publish (although it works as a standalone story). I put it out at 99c and in KU. If I consider all the KENPC page count as one KU 'sale' then it's sold 2,000 copies. I see it more as a marketing thing, but it's covered its costs and then some. I've considered series of novelettes but never done it. But I have noticed science fiction anthologies asking for novelettes (a 10k wordcount target) doing extremely well recently (at least in terms of SF anthologies). They tend to peak for a few weeks in the 750 - 2,000 ranks (in overall Kindle store) before dropping off fairly sharply. I saw one push deep into the top 100 earlier this month (with a little help from an advert from you-know-who). So there seems to be market in science fiction and it seems to be growing, but it's still fairly modest in size.


----------



## Lucian (Jun 8, 2014)

Picky Android,

The OP question is how are the novelettes doing. That's what I was responding to. I didn't ask for a critique on my writing style. For your information, everything you said about what happens is completely wrong. So thanks for that.

Russian Assassins in America is 75,000 words. A novel. Again you're wrong.

You're new here. Maybe take some time to see how people treat one another. It's okay not to like something. It's not okay to mislead people.


----------



## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Lucian said:


> My novelette, Stealing Huckleberry has fallen and can't get up.
> 8,800 words
> Female lead (Insurance Recovery Agent)
> I'm going to change the genre it's in to see if that helps. Women's Adventure-Humor
> ...


Not really the same genre, but I too am trying to mix adventure with a bit of humor with a strong female lead. It's been hard to find an audience. I do know some women in their 40s and 50s who come across it, seem to like the series, but I has no idea how to market this to them.


----------



## Lucian (Jun 8, 2014)

Eugene,

We know they're out there. Somewhere. If only we could... tackle them.

Obviously, we can't. That would be wrong.

First, because tackle anyone without their consent in wrong. Second, if we let authors tackle readers, it would only be fair to let readers tackle authors. And I don't want to get chased around a shopping mall because an English teacher is mad I ended a sentence with a preposition while I scream at them over my shoulder, "It was a stylistic choice."

But I'm sure they'd go after Cormac McCarthy first, before they came for any of us.

If I find something that works, I'll let you know.


----------



## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Lucian said:


> Eugene,
> 
> We know they're out there. Somewhere. If only we could... tackle them.
> 
> ...


LOL awesome


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

I've always changed the genre as it was too heavy for the light-hearted title I originally had.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Tim C. Taylor said:


> Published one earlier this year (10k words - military science fiction). It was written originally as a bonus for the mailing list that was also a link between two series I publish (although it works as a standalone story). I put it out at 99c and in KU. If I consider all the KENPC page count as one KU 'sale' then it's sold 2,000 copies. I see it more as a marketing thing, but it's covered its costs and then some. I've considered series of novelettes but never done it. But I have noticed science fiction anthologies asking for novelettes (a 10k wordcount target) doing extremely well recently (at least in terms of SF anthologies). They tend to peak for a few weeks in the 750 - 2,000 ranks (in overall Kindle store) before dropping off fairly sharply. I saw one push deep into the top 100 earlier this month (with a little help from an advert from you-know-who). So there seems to be market in science fiction and it seems to be growing, but it's still fairly modest in size.


can you link to this rating page at Amazon for me ... I will soon be out there ... even though I suspect I will be very low ... it would be nice to see it


----------



## gtvManager (Aug 14, 2017)

I really admire anyone who can gain a readership by writing novelettes/novellas. Those have been tricky for me to wrap my head around! Why do all my ideas have to be so epic in my head?


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

gtvManager said:


> I really admire anyone who can gain a readership by writing novelettes/novellas. Those have been tricky for me to wrap my head around! Why do all my ideas have to be so epic in my head?


A lot of it depends on genre though. Teen romance is full of shorter books, but something like fantasy requires world building and way more can happen. 
It's pretty difficult for me to write a boy meets girl - they have a misunderstanding - they fall in love, kind of story that is particularly long. But if I add in a paranormal element then it opens up and the book naturally grows.

I personally totally disagree that longer books contain 'fluff' that can be removed, and that all books could be drilled down to a bare bones novella and be better. Some books need long development and twists and turns to properly come alive.

But isn't it great that we can have/write both?


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> You want to write a novel - great spend that year - you want an impacting novella - spend a couple months. Your choice.


A year?


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

Evenstar said:


> But isn't it great that we can have/write both?


Yes! So much yes!

I love writing short and I also love writing long. And I seem to need to scratch both itches - lol.

A story is as long as it needs to be, and the more threads I add, the longer it becomes.


----------



## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> A year?


I've never seen a new poster be so completely wrong about so many things at once!


----------



## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Gentleman Zombie said:


> I've never seen a new poster be so completely wrong about so many things at once!


LMAO


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Gentleman Zombie said:


> I've never seen a new poster be so completely wrong about so many things at once!


And so SURE that he's right.

You can write anything you want (generic-you). You can like anything you want. You can't make anybody else like it, and you can't make anybody else buy it. Oddly enough, despite some authors' disdain, many readers love romance, love long novels, and love lots of character development and subplots. Lots of authors can write and edit a long novel in the time it takes other writers to write a novelette or short story or whatever it is. Lucky for many of us, perhaps unlucky for an author who thinks only very short works have merit and that romance is boring.

I won't critique anybody's communication skills in their posts, because we aren't here to critique each others' writing.


----------



## Tim C. Taylor (May 17, 2011)

Picky Android said:


> can you link to this rating page at Amazon for me ... I will soon be out there ... even though I suspect I will be very low ... it would be nice to see it


No worries, it's http://getbook.at/NMLB Good luck with yours.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> A year?


Well, true. Depends really. 2 years? or several months depending on who.

Yeah, dreaming up a story that you could possibly draft takes a lot of daydreaming time too. 

For me on a novella, 2 months. The biggest task in that is editing and proofing.

I guess as you get better your time involved gets a bit shorter.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> Well, true. Depends really. 2 years? or several months depending on who.
> 
> Yeah, dreaming up a story that you could possibly draft takes a lot of daydreaming time too.
> 
> ...


Some of us can write a whole novel of 60,000 words or more in a month. Some, like Amanda, can write one in half that time. Some take a year or more. Your problem is you seem to assume that everyone takes the same time as you; they don't.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Doglover said:


> Some of us can write a whole novel of 60,000 words or more in a month. Some, like Amanda, can write one in half that time. Some take a year or more. Your problem is you seem to assume that everyone takes the same time as you; they don't.


No, he's clearly just messing with us for attention. He doesn't care if it's negative or positive. His previous reply proved that. Time to move along, lol.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Tim C. Taylor said:


> No worries, it's http://getbook.at/NMLB Good luck with yours.


oooo, that was funny


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Usedtoposthere said:


> And so SURE that he's right.
> 
> You can write anything you want (generic-you). You can like anything you want. You can't make anybody else like it, and you can't make anybody else buy it. Oddly enough, despite some authors' disdain, many readers love romance, love long novels, and love lots of character development and subplots. Lots of authors can write and edit a long novel in the time it takes other writers to write a novelette or short story or whatever it is. Lucky for many of us, perhaps unlucky for an author who thinks only very short works have merit and that romance is boring.
> 
> I won't critique anybody's communication skills in their posts, because we aren't here to critique each others' writing.


True, but they ask, "Why are my sales sucking?" Well, "to be, or not to be - honest ---" it is JMO ... I don't have all the answers, I do know most all the questions ...

And too, learning what you guys are interested in at Kboards is a slow process. I do see the groups now that tend to like to hang together.

To those who can write a novel while I write this post - wow! -- I would never have imagined that was possible


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> True, but they ask, "Why are my sales sucking?" Well, "to be, or not to be - honest ---" it is JMO ... I don't have all the answers, I do know most all the questions ...
> 
> And too, learning what you guys are interested in at Kboards is a slow process. I do see the groups now that tend to like to hang together.
> 
> To those who can write a novel while I write this post - wow! -- I would never have imagined that was possible


My understanding is that you haven't published anything yet, know nothing about the market and are purposely telling others what they're doing wrong in a bid to show off (although what you're showing off remains a mystery). How exactly does that work? If you actually knew the market, you would know that shorts and novelettes don't really sell (outside of erotica) and there's no longevity in them. So ... what exactly are you trying to sell to folks? As far as I can tell, you're simply looking for attention. Congratulations. You've received it. Good luck with your novelettes. I'm sure, since you know everything, they will be a rousing success and they'll relaunch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" just to feature you in a few months.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> My understanding is that you haven't published anything yet, know nothing about the market and are purposely telling others what they're doing wrong in a bid to show off (although what you're showing off remains a mystery). How exactly does that work? If you actually knew the market, you would know that shorts and novelettes don't really sell (outside of erotica) and there's no longevity in them. So ... what exactly are you trying to sell to folks? As far as I can tell, you're simply looking for attention. Congratulations. You've received it. Good luck with your novelettes. I'm sure, since you know everything, they will be a rousing success and they'll relaunch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" just to feature you in a few months.


LOL! No. I will be in the same boat as everyone else. New unknown author, no one takes a look maybe - and it will be so slow before you get enough eyes on it, but I have no expectations. If you like to write - write. Find what works is the hope.

So what if I am new. "The young one, learning, still needs," thank you Yoda. 

I was on Write On learning - for 3 years, writing and having fun. Same game there as here almost. But here I can see where people actually are trying to do better, both in their writing and trying to understand where what they have done is not taking off. And some of the same people from WO are here too ... wow wonder at that. We all like to write.

The big marketing dance that I see here the most is, give it away FREE in hopes they pick up a little of your other stuff. "Oh, I gave away 2000 copies in 3 days (for free that I spent $200 on to do) I am a big success!" Funny - three steps forward, two steps back.

So that is the big marketing plan! Wow such success, my books are free! Funny. But I guess you have to do something. But that works if you do have other works out there and you do have a following of sorts, maybe.

I don't know. My first book will be out soon. Write a couple more novellas to go with that, make a bundled collection and continue. And then I will consider this big marketing plan you guys seem to love. I am no different.

Cheers Amanda. You are honest.

(did you finish another novel?  )


----------



## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)




----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Doglover said:


> Some of us can write a whole novel of 60,000 words or more in a month. Some, like Amanda, can write one in half that time. Some take a year or more. Your problem is you seem to assume that everyone takes the same time as you; they don't.


This is true. The new first author takes a long while for the most part from what I have seen. And yes the more you do the faster you get. If it meets some success, you are more motivated.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Anarchist said:


>


I know. Someone pass me a fifth of Jack.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I know. Someone pass me a fifth of Jack.


Well at least he got a laugh.

Pass the bottle ...


----------



## gtvManager (Aug 14, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> I personally totally disagree that longer books contain 'fluff' that can be removed, and that all books could be drilled down to a bare bones novella and be better. Some books need long development and twists and turns to properly come alive.
> 
> But isn't it great that we can have/write both?


Absolutely! There are some writers I've been reading who are so masterful at the short story/novella that I had to stop and examine how they were making me feel the emotional feedback that I was while reading. Ray Bradbury and Stephen King, in particular. The punches are so effective in their plotting. It's like telling a really good campfire story with a twist at the end that makes you relive everything you have read up to that point in a single instant.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Anarchist said:


>


LMAO


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> LOL! No. I will be in the same boat as everyone else. New unknown author, no one takes a look maybe - and it will be so slow before you get enough eyes on it, but I have no expectations. If you like to write - write. Find what works is the hope.
> 
> So what if I am new. "The young one, learning, still needs," thank you Yoda.
> 
> ...


Actually this forum is very marketing centric. The majority of people here take writing seriously as a business.


----------



## wearywanderer64 (Jan 27, 2013)

Wow! This veered off course. Never mind. A lot of publicity for me...I think.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> Actually this forum is very marketing centric. The majority of people here take writing seriously as a business.


You're a moderator. Just noticed the tiny print. You are cool. Cute avatar and your books too have that cute factor. Reminds me of the Archie comics, Betty and Veronica stuff was cool back in the day when I was a kid - I was DC and Marvel though, but I always loved to look at Betty and Veronica too. Pretty fun in the day. I imagine your fans love your work.

Yeah, I've noticed the marketing angle and lots want to jump ship on KU and go wide. They want off that carousel.

It seems to pretty much be a one-trick pony. Everyone seems to be riding on the same carousel. Everyone has a website, everyone has a link to their books, maybe everyone is running their work here on KB. I can't fault anyone for trying. Seems everyone has some measure of success.

From what I see most of this is a hobby, and if you do well, it provides good extra income. But you said, "as a business". True. Not necessarily, "a business". Hobbies can be done, "as a business". And it is interesting to watch it all. A hobby too?

I am about to find out just how lonely an unknown author can be I guess. Maybe then I sing a different tune? Hope not, but I will be looking to see how I can do better if it does not perform, take a ride on that marketing carousel? Don't know just yet.

So, I read KB and see what is working for people and what isn't.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> You're a moderator. Just noticed the tiny print. You are cool. Cute avatar and your books too have that cute factor. Reminds me of the Archie comics, Betty and Veronica stuff was cool back in the day when I was a kid - I was DC and Marvel though, but I always loved to look at Betty and Veronica too. Pretty fun in the day. I imagine you fans love your work.
> 
> Yeah, I've noticed the marketing angle and lots want to jump ship on KU and go wide. They want off that carousel.
> 
> ...


Actually I would argue that you see a great number of authors here who are making above the norm when it comes to indie publishing. Kboards seems to skew higher for earning, but that's simply something I've noticed. As for hobby money, there are quite a few people here who do much better than hobby money. Take a look around. Listen to what people say. Look at their catalogs and rankings. Don't just tell them they write crap and act superior for no reason. If you do that, you're not going to get anything out of this group.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Actually I would argue that you see a great number of authors here who are making above the norm when it comes to indie publishing. Kboards seems to skew higher for earning, but that's simply something I've noticed. As for hobby money, there are quite a few people here who do much better than hobby money. Take a look around. Listen to what people say. Look at their catalogs and rankings. Don't just tell them they write crap and act superior for no reason. If you do that, you're not going to get anything out of this group.


I shall  master Yoda. Yes I do see the seriousness of it all. I had a handle of "Frank" on other boards wattpad and places. "Frank" was frank more often than he should have been. But I was suggesting things could be written better - if - and they were usually ignored - well - just ignored.

I want friends; not enemies.

But when they ask, "Why is this not working, or why is this not doing well?" What do you say? I am not going to change anything with my opinion really - so you are right.

So really I will not suggest much going forward. Smile and wish them well ... and move on to something more interesting.

Good to meet you Amanda.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> You're a moderator. Just noticed the tiny print. You are cool. Cute avatar and your books too have that cute factor. Reminds me of the Archie comics, Betty and Veronica stuff was cool back in the day when I was a kid - I was DC and Marvel though, but I always loved to look at Betty and Veronica too. Pretty fun in the day. I imagine your fans love your work.
> 
> Yeah, I've noticed the marketing angle and lots want to jump ship on KU and go wide. They want off that carousel.
> 
> ...


For the record: I'm a DC girl through and through.
Only Wolverine gets a mention from the Marvel universe, because well, obvious reasons


----------



## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Evenstar said:


> For the record: I'm a DC girl through and through.
> Only Wolverine gets a mention from the Marvel universe, because well, obvious reasons


And I'd always thought so highly of you ...

Had.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Evenstar said:


> For the record: I'm a DC girl through and through.
> Only Wolverine gets a mention from the Marvel universe, because well, obvious reasons


(shhh - this that Jay and Silent Bob?)

DC is okay. I liked Super Girl --- Betty Veronica thing - I just like girls. DC was a little slow and strange on story for super guy and the bat guy.

Marvel was where it was at. For me it was Silver Surfer and Thor - now there were your picture novelette stories!

So you like Hugh Jackman? For some reason my wife can't get his name right; she calls him Jack Human, then she asks what is an X-Man? Go figure.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> LOL! No. I will be in the same boat as everyone else. New unknown author, no one takes a look maybe - and it will be so slow before you get enough eyes on it, but I have no expectations. If you like to write - write. Find what works is the hope.
> 
> So what if I am new. "The young one, learning, still needs," thank you Yoda.
> 
> ...


People use free books because they still work. Spectacularly, sometimes. If people like the free book enough to buy the author's other books, free can still be the easiest and quickest way to find an audience.

If readers aren't attracted enough to the book to pick it up even at free, or don't like the book enough to finish or buy the next one, free doesn't work. Pretty simple.

Not everybody's first book stinks. Not everybody struggles to find an audience, however little or however much advertising they do. Some find readers immediately and then find more. Some struggle and then succeed. Others struggle and then give up. The way to find out which you are is to do it.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> I shall  master Yoda. Yes I do see the seriousness of it all. I had a handle of "Frank" on other boards wattpad and places. "Frank" was frank more often than he should have been. But I was suggesting things could be written better - if - and they were usually ignored - well - just ignored.
> 
> I want friends; not enemies.
> 
> ...


If someone's books are not selling, there are often many reasons, none of them anything to do with the speed with which they were written. There are many people out there who cannot write, never had any interest in writing, but got caught by one of those get rich quick books that I wish Amazon would ban. Usually, they cannot spell, cannot string a sentence together and think ten pages can be called a book.

As to novels being padded out, some are, but they don't often get repeat customers. I hate too much description and if I want to know about what the characters are wearing, I'll buy a copy of Vogue. I'm not talking a paragraph or so, but sometimes one gets whole pages or more. Who cares? There are lots that could be left out and make for a better novel, but a novel is still a novel and a good one can be written in a month or less.

Being frank is essential if you know the answer; if you don't, it is best to keep your trap shut.

_Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

Doglover said:


> If someone's books are not selling, there are often many reasons, none of them anything to do with the speed with which they were written. There are many people out there who cannot write, never had any interest in writing, but got caught by one of those get rich quick books that I wish Amazon would ban. Usually, they cannot spell, cannot string a sentence together and think ten pages can be called a book.
> 
> As to novels being padded out, some are, but they don't often get repeat customers. I hate too much description and if I want to know about what the characters are wearing, I'll buy a copy of Vogue. I'm not talking a paragraph or so, but sometimes one gets whole pages or more. Who cares? There are lots that could be left out and make for a better novel, but a novel is still a novel and a good one can be written in a month or less.
> 
> ...


Agree Doglover,

I am a very picky reader (Picky Android - (after all we seem to be biological androids really - we believe there is a ghost in the machine though). Finding a good read for me is like playing bopper, "Smash! Not that one, Smash, not that one, ...) it is a never ending journey.

Whether I am frank or not, nothing changes. Smile I guess, and try not to sound offensive, don't really offer my OP or offer any suggestions. That is not my intention to be offensive.

The FREE marketing game is a one-trick pony.

Mostly likely I will have to try it. Perhaps it has some sort of measured effect. I suppose it is exciting when your books move, even it they are free  it just seems a bit odd to me. What is gained you can't put into the bank. But I am writing for the joy it (if you can call the pain you endure while you work so hard on a work, joy) then banking money is not what you are totally after.

I really like the aspect of Kindle Select. Now there is a free program that pays.

I think posting on KB is the best free way to advertise as everyone can see the link to your book. If the viewer is KU they can take a look and maybe pick it up.

My pushing for what I think is better work, or better reads is not working. Just food for thought for the writer. Being honest is too sharp a needle I guess.

I hope my pointing things out here and there did not offend anyone. Sorry.

Still looking for great reads in the subjects I like ...


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> The FREE marketing game is a one-trick pony.


How? No, seriously, how? Also, how can you possibly "know" this if you haven't published anything?


----------



## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> My pushing for what I think is better work, or better reads is not working. Just food for thought for the writer. Being honest is too sharp a needle I guess.
> 
> I hope my pointing things out here and there did not offend anyone. Sorry.


I think you're giving yourself too much credit.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


----------



## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Anarchist said:


> I think you're giving yourself too much credit.
> 
> _Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


I'm not exactly coming to anyone's defense, but I can at least empathize.

When I first started writing, I knew everything. I was working on the greatest epic fantasy in the history of epic fantasies, and I was more than willing to tell every other author I encountered exactly where they were going wrong. Then, I went to my first writing group meeting, and my knowledge of writing decreased significantly. Then, I sent my perfect finished draft to an editor, and my knowledge decreased further. Then I eventually published that first book and got reviews in, and my knowledge level sank to rock bottom.

Having just published my third novel, my knowledge is at least moving upward again, but I'm still not where I was as a rank beginner.

Like I said, not defending, just empathizing


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> My pushing for what I think is better work, or better reads is not working. Just food for thought for the writer. Being honest is too sharp a needle I guess.
> 
> I hope my pointing things out here and there did not offend anyone. Sorry.


I think members around here just tend to prefer it if people have a bit of street cred if they're going to be giving all kinds of advice.

Also, there are a large number of authors here who make a living with their writing. Some scrape by, some make six figures or higher, and there are plenty in between. So it might be a good idea to come in and get a feel for the place, and get to know who's who, before throwing around all kinds of commentary that has the potential to insult and aggravate a great many people. The fact that you have no experience with publishing just makes that potential even worse.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Picky Android said:


> KB. Everyone of KB is doing Free promos. I read it everywhere here. There are many. There are reduced price promos too. I get BookBub, I see it. More that prices are reduced. But free is there too. Plus I saw the guy who is managing others work and trying to improve visibility. Advertising is tough, but most everyone tries that one-trick pony. Plus in a series, the first episode is usually free.


That wasn't the question. How is it a one-trick pony? That's the question. The definition of one-trick pony is: a person or thing with only one special feature, talent, or area of expertise. Free giveaways achieve multiple things, whether good or bad. So, how are free giveaways a one-trick pony?


----------



## AlexaGrave (Jun 11, 2015)

ShayneRutherford said:


> I think members around here just tend to prefer it if people have a bit of street cred if they're going to be giving all kinds of advice.


This right here. If you give advice on how to do things, you should have the experience/proof that said advice worked at least for you.

Most of us know shorter works are really hard sells, and if we were looking for advice on how to sell more we'd ask for it, and then we'd hope for advice from someone else who's already "been there" instead of someone who's intending to try things out still.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> Agree Doglover,
> 
> I am a very picky reader (Picky Android - (after all we seem to be biological androids really - we believe there is a ghost in the machine though). Finding a good read for me is like playing bopper, "Smash! Not that one, Smash, not that one, ...) it is a never ending journey.
> 
> ...


Well, it has some sort of measured effect for me. But everyone can do what they want. The idea that posting book covers on a site visited by indie authors would be the most effective free advertising an author could do is ... an interesting notion.

Really, if you want to learn I would open up the FAQ thread at the top of the page and read the how-I-did-it posts from authors who've made some millions. Some of the marketing info will be dated, but much of it will still be sound.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

BWFoster78 said:


> I'm not exactly coming to anyone's defense, but I can at least empathize.
> 
> When I first started writing, I knew everything. I was working on the greatest epic fantasy in the history of epic fantasies, and I was more than willing to tell every other author I encountered exactly where they were going wrong. Then, I went to my first writing group meeting, and my knowledge of writing decreased significantly. Then, I sent my perfect finished draft to an editor, and my knowledge decreased further. Then I eventually published that first book and got reviews in, and my knowledge level sank to rock bottom.
> 
> ...


Silver Surfer needs no defense! LOL!

I tried to write 20 years ago. I really didn't have the time but I tried. I had studied writing in college several year before. I learned the tricks they tried to teach us. In one ear and they didn't register as to what they really meant till a few years ago. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink so to speak.

Then I tried to write again. I was better. Many short stories and false starts later ... I have a novella for teens that may be worthwhile. It was fun. So if it goes no where, (and it won't I suspect for a very long time, if ever, way too many other new authors out there, some are good some not so good.)

For me, I always like to take a peek at other new author's works and see what it looks like, how they express the ideas, flow, and if it hooks me up front. I don't read much past that, unless it really hooks me, "There is something interesting here that I want to know more about,") kind of thing,

So when I read, I read with that critical view. Can't say it is right ... just me. And you run up against a lot of stuff you are not interested in ... but on rare occasions, you do see one that you say, "You know I don't read thrillers, but this one has something really going on." Thus Meyer's The Chemist may be a good read for me - but it is a genre I don't care much for. She just writes really good and I want to know more.

How to do that --- just the above - Emanuel Kant - "If man can't prove that something is, he will try and prove what it is not." And in effect that is what you are doing when you read critically. You see a lot of, "well this don't work - that's not it." And you bump up against some that seem to work pretty well. What is good is hard to find, what is not good enough, you come across a lot. But that is for the critical reader.

If you are reading for fun you are a lot more forgiving, (and we love the people who do that!)

So study what you think works, there are tons of different openings to hook a reader into wanting to read more, then deliver on that promise from the opening. Seen a lot of good openings --- and then the story is a drag - know what I mean (I have not looked at your work, so I don't mean you.)

Darn here I go again ... I just hit post ... with stupid opinions ...


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Feel free to refute Picky Android's ideas about marketing, but let's not cross over into ridicule. A post and its follow-ups have been removed.


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

AlexaGrave said:


> This right here. If you give advice on how to do things, you should have the experience/proof that said advice worked at least for you.
> 
> Most of us know shorter works are really hard sells, and if we were looking for advice on how to sell more we'd ask for it, and then we'd hope for advice from someone else who's already "been there" instead of someone who's intending to try things out still.


I don't care that they are hard to sell. Just sale is good enough for me. This is for fun. I am not that serious into myself as a writer. The reader determines that, and my marketing efforts be damned.

I get it. I really do. This cowboy ain't got a horse to ride yet so he isn't a cowboy. I may have been born yesterday, but half that day I spent uptown. My tiny work will soon be out. I won't wear it as a badge of honor around here ... (well maybe if it does fair )

True. I have nothing to crow about. So why am I here? Good point. I will maybe haunt the readers section of KB --- Seems plenty of writers here show up there too with their badges of honor showing.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

Stepping in to reiterate/amplify Becca's prior comment.

A serious discussion about marketing is fine--personal comments about each other will not be allowed.  Posts designed to provoke are against forum decorum and will be removed.  Continuing to make such posts after the warnings here will result in being banned from the thread or being placed on post moderation.

A reminder that not every post needs to be responded to.

Post have been removed.

Betsy
KB Mod


----------



## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

Picky Android said:


> Silver Surfer needs no defense! LOL!
> 
> I tried to write 20 years ago. I really didn't have the time but I tried. I had studied writing in college several year before. I learned the tricks they tried to teach us. In one ear and they didn't register as to what they really meant till a few years ago. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink so to speak.
> 
> ...


I feel you. I'm quite picky about what I read as well. Things that would not bother any reasonable person in the world drive me insane. I've not purchased books because of stuff like the lines being double spaced and too many words being italicized for artificial emphasis. And I pretty much don't read present tense at all.

On the other hand, I've come to realize that my personal preferences are not in any way indicative of the reading public at large. I'd feel like an idiot if I told someone on this board to avoid writing in present tense in any circumstances just because I don't like it. The fact is that present tense is perfectly acceptable, maybe even preferred, in some genres. Assuming that the author isn't trying to reach me, and me only, as his audience, the advice wouldn't make any sense.

There are a ton of places on the internet where hobbyist authors argue about stuff that readers just don't seem to care about. This forum is different. The majority of posters here are really focused on how to become successful authors (from a monetary standpoint). People who have sold more books than I could even dream about (like Amanda) actually share advice about what has and hasn't worked for them. I don't know about you, but I find that to be pretty darn awesome.


----------



## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Ditto. This is not a writing forum. It's a publishing forum. Hence, people do not expect (or normally appreciate) unsolicited critiques on their prose and look inside and/or opinions of their writing itself.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> Agree Doglover,
> 
> The FREE marketing game is a one-trick pony.
> 
> ...


I'd like to reply to some of these misapprehensions you have. I'll do my best.

*Free marketing is a one trick pony*. I haven't the faintest idea what that means.

*What is gained you can't put into the bank.* This is only true if your writing is no good, and readers have no desire to read any more of your books. If that free one is what the readers expect for their money, you will gain a lot of new readers who will buy the rest of the your books. You would never have got those new readers had you not given one away.

*I really like the aspect of Kindle Select. Now there is a free program that pays*. That's because it's not free. The reader pays a subscription of something like $10 a month. It only pays if you have a book they want to read, because it pays the author for every page that the reader reads. If they get to Chapter 2 and no further, that's all you get.

*My pushing for what I think is better work, or better reads is not working. Just food for thought for the writer. Being honest is too sharp a needle I guess.* Not sure why you think you are being honest. Unless you have read every book in every link on this board, you cannot possibly know the quality of those books. You are basing your assumptions on the speed with which they are written, which is an old fashioned view from the days when authors wrote in longhand (that means with a pen and paper) and a typewriter. That was the only thing that held them up then, that and time, and it is the advantage of today's writers, that we have computers. Honesty is fine; antagonism without knowledge is not.

*I hope my pointing things out here and there did not offend anyone. Sorry.* The only opinions that matter to us authors are the opinions of our readers. Nobody else matters, nobody at all, certainly not a faceless name on the internet.

I hope my pointing things out here hasn't offended you.
_
Edited, PM me if you have any questions. Evenstar (Moderator)_


----------



## &quot;Serious&quot; ... but not really (Aug 14, 2017)

BWFoster78 said:


> I feel you. I'm quite picky about what I read as well. Things that would not bother any reasonable person in the world drive me insane. I've not purchased books because of stuff like the lines being double spaced and too many words being italicized for artificial emphasis. And I pretty much don't read present tense at all.
> 
> On the other hand, I've come to realize that my personal preferences are not in any way indicative of the reading public at large. I'd feel like an idiot if I told someone on this board to avoid writing in present tense in any circumstances just because I don't like it. The fact is that present tense is perfectly acceptable, maybe even preferred, in some genres. Assuming that the author isn't trying to reach me, and me only, as his audience, the advice wouldn't make any sense.
> 
> There are a ton of places on the internet where hobbyist authors argue about stuff that readers just don't seem to care about. This forum is different. The majority of posters here are really focused on how to become successful authors (from a monetary standpoint). People who have sold more books than I could even dream about (like Amanda) actually share advice about what has and hasn't worked for them. I don't know about you, but I find that to be pretty darn awesome.


Once you start writing I guess, you can become selective in what you want to read. Glad to see I am not the only one who is picky (but I was too outspoken with my ideas). I have said too much on this board and I am not well liked. 

I guess I have stepped on some successful author's toes. I write for the fun of it. So monetary success is not what I am after. Go Select and you may get a little cash. For the novella type stuff we are talking Penny Dreadful income. But I just want to write, and as said here on the thread, your readers are what counts.

So I shall let these folks rule this KB. They seem to be everywhere here anyway.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Picky Android said:


> I guess I have stepped on some successful author's toes. I write for the fun of it. So monetary success is not what I am after. Go Select and you may get a little cash. For the novella type stuff we are talking Penny Dreadful income. But I just want to write, and as said here on the thread, your readers are what counts.


I am not in Select. If you prefer to write for feedback (and some money too), you might find success on Google Play.

My first book _The Flirting Games_ has over 10,000 reviews on GP, and the readers are much more enthusiastic about what they like than Amazon reviewers are.

For YA books I think it is better to be wide. Half my income comes from Google.


----------



## old account (Sep 4, 2013)

I do not accept the new TOS for this site, nor do I convey any rights to the new site owner Vertical Scope.


----------

