# Is "War of the Worlds" public domain?



## PatrickWalts (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm referring to the Orson Welles radio broadcast.  I'd like to quote it fairly heavily in a story, but Googling it has turned up nothing but a bunch of conflicting answers.  How do I find out if it's still copyrighted?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Looks like the rights are still owned.

http://jeff560.tripod.com/wotw.html


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

The original book though, is from 1898 and therefore public domain - could you modify the original text to suit your needs, or do you specifically need the Orson Wells connection?


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## PatrickWalts (Jul 22, 2011)

Rin said:


> The original book though, is from 1898 and therefore public domain - could you modify the original text to suit your needs, or do you specifically need the Orson Wells connection?


Yeah, because the story would take place while the show was being aired, focusing on a rural family who hears it and thinks it's real. Got the idea when my aunt was telling me about how they'd panicked, climbed up on the roof of their barn looking for flying saucers when they heard it. Oh well, I suppose I could work around quoting from the actual script, although that could be tricky.


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## PatrickWalts (Jul 22, 2011)

Monique said:


> Looks like the rights are still owned.
> 
> http://jeff560.tripod.com/wotw.html


Hmm. Thanks for the link. I missed that one, I guess. There's an email where the copyright holder can be contacted, maybe I'll ask permission. Can't hurt.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Rin said:


> The original book though, is from 1898 and therefore public domain - could you modify the original text to suit your needs, or do you specifically need the Orson Wells connection?


Actually, the original book is still protected in most countries. In the US, a book is copyrighted until 70 years after the death of the creator. That means it won't be public domain until 2016, since HG Wells died in 1946.


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## antares (Feb 13, 2011)

kyrin said:


> Actually, the original book is still protected in most countries. In the US, a book is copyrighted until 70 years after the death of the creator. That means it won't be public domain until 2016, since HG Wells died in 1946.


That is not correct.

The extant US law when _*War of the Worlds*_ was published gave copyright protection for 28 years + another 28 years if renewed timely. Even if Wells renewed the copyright, it expired in 1954, and _*War of the Worlds*_ passed into public domain in the US.

The law giving copyright protection for the life of the author + 70 years came into effect 01 January 1978. Works in their first term or renewed term were grandfathered into the new protection schema.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

antares said:


> That is not correct.
> 
> The extant US law when _*War of the Worlds*_ was published gave copyright protection for 28 years + another 28 years if renewed timely. Even if Wells renewed the copyright, it expired in 1954, and _*War of the Worlds*_ passed into public domain in the US.
> 
> The law giving copyright protection for the life of the author + 70 years came into effect 01 January 1978. Works in their first term or renewed term were grandfathered into the new protection schema.


Then about three websites that list information about the rights and one agent are wrong.

In any case, it's best not to assume something is public domain. There is a whole field of law dealing with copyrights and intellectual property.

You can actually look up the copyright info in the government database to confirm whether or not something is public domain.


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## antares (Feb 13, 2011)

kyrin said:


> In any case, it's best not to assume something is public domain.


I agree with this. Consult a practicing copyright lawyer. Me? I don't practice anymore.


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## PatrickWalts (Jul 22, 2011)

I found out who holds the copyright now and shot him and email.  It's not something that's terribly important to me, just one of those "backburner" ideas that may or may not come to fruition.


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## 48209 (Jul 4, 2011)

antares said:


> That is not correct.
> 
> The extant US law when _*War of the Worlds*_ was published gave copyright protection for 28 years + another 28 years if renewed timely. Even if Wells renewed the copyright, it expired in 1954, and _*War of the Worlds*_ passed into public domain in the US.
> 
> The law giving copyright protection for the life of the author + 70 years came into effect 01 January 1978. Works in their first term or renewed term were grandfathered into the new protection schema.


Just out of curiosity: Can the estate continue to copyright it?


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

kyrin said:


> Then about three websites that list information about the rights and one agent are wrong.
> 
> In any case, it's best not to assume something is public domain. There is a whole field of law dealing with copyrights and intellectual property.
> 
> You can actually look up the copyright info in the government database to confirm whether or not something is public domain.


Anything published in the U.S. before 1923 is in the public domain in the U.S. That part of it is simple.

It's possible there's a revised version of the book that was published after 1923. That version, if it exists, might still be under copyright.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Asher MacDonald said:


> Anything published in the U.S. before 1923 is in the public domain in the U.S. That part of it is simple.
> 
> It's possible there's a revised version of the book that was published after 1923. That version, if it exists, might still be under copyright.


Tell that to Disney and some other copyright holders, also tell that to the US government copyright database which lists the information on intellectual properties who holds the copyright to them. There seems to be a couple of exceptions to the 1923 law so there is a way around the law or some provisions listed under it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that copyright laws vary from country to country. This is a big deal especially if you are selling your books internationally. There are also other differences on how each country handles revisions to copyright laws.



> Historically the United States has specified terms of a number of years following creation or publication; this number has been increased several times. Most other countries specify terms of a number of years following the death of the last surviving creator; this number varies from one country to another (50 years and 70 years are the most common), and has also been increased in many of them. *Legal traditions differ on whether a work in the public domain can have its copyright restored.* Term extensions by the U.S. and Australia generally have not removed works from the public domain, but rather delayed the addition of works to it. By contrast, a European Union directive harmonizing the term of copyright protection was applied retroactively, restoring and extending the terms of copyright on material previously in the public domain.


Right now, there is a court case in the US to amend the law so that a copyright is restored whenever the law is revised. In specific to this thread, War of the Worlds is still copyrighted in most European countries.

EDIT: Copyright law is very complex. The laws can and have changed over the years. It's always better to look up the work in question instead of making an assumption that could cost you. When you're asked to cease and desist and/or fork over your profits, the judge won't care if you say "Well I thought the copyright had lapsed and the work was public domain."


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

The HG Wells novel WotW is PD in the US.  The Mercury Theatre radio show is not PD.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

Out of curiosity, if you took the original War of the Worlds novel but added new scenes, etc, and gave it new content, how would you go about publishing it on Amazon? Obviously you would release it as "by HG Wells and Author X", but would you hit the "this is public domain" button or the "I own the rights" button, since you added in new content?


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## randallcfloyd (Nov 27, 2017)

jackconnerbooks said:


> Out of curiosity, if you took the original War of the Worlds novel but added new scenes, etc, and gave it new content, how would you go about publishing it on Amazon? Obviously you would release it as "by HG Wells and Author X", but would you hit the "this is public domain" button or the "I own the rights" button, since you added in new content?


Here's a primer on the subject.

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200743940

You would publish it as public domain, and, as long as you differentiate it under the guidelines Amazon requires - and it looks like you'd be doing enough with the version you're proposing - you'll be good to go. Just make sure you put something like abridged, or adapted, or something like that. A good book to look at would be Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, just for reference.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

Thank you, Randal. I've read that guideline but it didn't address this particular circumstance. I guess my question, stated better, would be, How much original writing do I have to add to hit the "I own the rights" button and not the "public domain" button? I don't really want to make a work that is at least partly my own creation public domain.


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## D. A. J. F. (Mar 29, 2019)

jackconnerbooks said:


> Thank you, Randal. I've read that guideline but it didn't address this particular circumstance. I guess my question, stated better, would be, How much original writing do I have to add to hit the "I own the rights" button and not the "public domain" button? I don't really want to make a work that is at least partly my own creation public domain.


I've tried looking for the answer to that, as I'm interested in the subject myself, but I can't find an answer.

But I did find this, it seems a few kboarders have already done it, and one of them is still active here:

https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,229557.25.html



alawston said:


> I've sort of dabbled with this, like Nic I've translated some public domain books and published them. My Casanova translation has become my biggest-selling book by a country mile. My Arthur Bernede translation... eh, not so much. That's clearly due to Casanova being a bigger name on the world stage than Bernede, but in all honesty I'm kind of glad it's that way round. Casanova has been dead for a couple of centuries, and I feel quite comfortable about him paying for a modest chunk of my wedding. Bernede died in 1937. My grandmother could have met him. He wrote books with aircraft and telephones and machine guns. His work (or certainly the book I've translated, at any rate) is firmly in the public domain, but I don't feel entirely great about jumping in his grave.


Hopefully alawston will see this and respond.


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## vagabond.voyager (Jul 24, 2018)

PatrickWalts said:


> Yeah, because the story would take place while the show was being aired, focusing on a rural family who hears it and thinks it's real. Got the idea when my aunt was telling me about how they'd panicked, climbed up on the roof of their barn looking for flying saucers when they heard it. Oh well, I suppose I could work around quoting from the actual script, although that could be tricky.


That has been done already. In my experience, once in a movie, once in a TV show. Both several decades back.


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## D. A. J. F. (Mar 29, 2019)

deleted


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

D. A. J. F. said:


> Hi alawston
> 
> Can you help us out with an answer to this question?


Hullo! 

IANAL, but when I started translating out of copyright French books, I did consult one. When I self-publish my translations, I own the copyright _on my translation_, and as such I check the "I own the copyright and I hold the necessary publishing rights" box. French novel _Coeur de Francaise_ was published in 1912 and is public domain - the author died in 1937. My direct translation _Chantecoq and the Aubry Affair_ is 100% mine. However, there's essentially nothing I can do if someone does their own translation from the original French text, and publishes that.

The person who first mooted the idea of Chantecoq translations, as a series of work-for-hire books by myself and another writer, was very keen that I ought to make them "creative adaptations" and add steampunk stuff to them (or something, he was a bit mad), rather than direct translations. I argued against this, thinking he was just trying to make them more attractive commercially, which rather offended my academic instincts. Looking back, I now see he was _really_ trying to beef up his claim to the IP.

So, to answer your question, I'm honestly not sure how much you'd have to add to a public domain book in order to be justified in claiming to be the copyright holder. Legally, probably not very much at all. You inherently own the copyright to _any_ new content you write - whether that's new scenes, an introduction, or even footnotes. But there's the letter of the law, and then there's Amazon's interpretation of it. I've heard that Amazon prefer to set the bar quite high, to avoid scamsters flooding the market with thousands of poor quality self-published editions of Shakespeare, Dickens, or Austen.

If I were you, I'd speak to some of the people writing original Sherlock Holmes fiction, as the various legal wranglings over the Conan Doyle estate mean that anyone publishing Holmes fiction either needs to become something of a copyright expert very quickly, or is extremely brave/stupid.

Sorry, I hope some of this helps a little.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

Thank you for your insight, Alawston!


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## D. A. J. F. (Mar 29, 2019)

alawston said:


> Hullo!
> 
> IANAL, but when I started translating out of copyright French books, I did consult one. When I self-publish my translations, I own the copyright _on my translation_, and as such I check the "I own the copyright and I hold the necessary publishing rights" box. French novel _Coeur de Francaise_ was published in 1912 and is public domain - the author died in 1937. My direct translation _Chantecoq and the Aubry Affair_ is 100% mine. However, there's essentially nothing I can do if someone does their own translation from the original French text, and publishes that.
> 
> ...


Thanks alawston


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

Here's a brief clip from an episode of Ancient Aliens (on the History Channel) in 2010 in which I was a guest, and a snippet of Welles' War of the Worlds broadcast was played. It was either obtained under Fair Use, or the History Channel got permission.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

You really need to consult a lawyer, but in general, the broadcast is not in the public domain, so you'd have to get permission to quote anything from it. Fair use does not apply.

Basically, your story will be under your copyright, as you're writing something of your own, and only wanted to quote some segments of the broadcast. You'd have to have a statement about such quotes being used by permission on the copyright page, and I think list the owner of the copyright.

But, IANAL, so again, consult someone qualified to defend you in court.


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