# Has Amazon admitted any fault with the unlighted covers?



## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

I know several people have posted they believe the non-lighted Amazon K3 cover is causing their K3 to reboot sporadically.  Has it been proven that this is a fact or is this just something we are guessing at?  Has Amazon given any refunds to people who feel this way?  (Refunds on the case, I mean).


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks for asking that question, PG.  I've been wondering about it too.  Isn't it both covers -- with and without light -- that may be causing reboots, etc.?  Or is it only one or the other?  I noticed in another thread someone said hinges were causing the Kindle case / housing to crack.  I had thought about an Amazon cover, but decided against because of possible problems.  Waitin' on delivery of my Oberon dragonfly pond in saddle color.


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm also wondering if it is both types of covers that are associated with freezes and reboots.  Tagging along on this thread.


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## ErinLindsey (Jan 18, 2009)

I was probably one of the earlier owners of the K3 and NON-lighted cover that noticed a problem. 

I told Amazon CS what I thought the problem was, and I had absolutely no problem returning the cover and exchanging my first K3 for a new one. (didnt trust it after the cover made it crazy) 

Easiest ever exchange that I've ever done with Amazon. They were great. 

I reviewed the cover on Amazon's site in early September, and since then I've gotten at least 20 comments from other Kindle owners who have had similar problems.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

I've only had my K3 for 2 weeks.  The non-lighted cover was the first cover I put it in.  I had only 2 spontaneous reboots, and 1 freeze-up, and I removed it from the cover.  Haven't had any problems since then.  Of course that's not a very long time to really make a judgment.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> I know several people have posted they believe the non-lighted Amazon K3 cover is causing their K3 to reboot sporadically. Has it been proven that this is a fact or is this just something we are guessing at? Has Amazon given any refunds to people who feel this way? (Refunds on the case, I mean).


From what I've read here and on other Kindle related forums, it would seem that some but not all the CS personnel accept that the non-lighted Amazon K3 causes reboots.

Amazon CS told me that my cover might be causing the problem. They advised me to remove the cover and, if the problem went away, to contact them about exchanging the cover. I removed the cover and it solved the problem, but instead of returning the cover, I chose to modify it to eliminate the hinge inserts.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

NO!

I've had my K3 and hinged, non-lighted Amazon cover since mid-September.  I had a few early RESTARTS but thought it might be due to indexing or some such thing.  For the last 6 or 7 weeks the spontaneous RESTARTS have increased dramatically.  All total I have made 8 calls to AKCS and spoken with them 12 times (they called me 4 additional times).  

In none of those conversations with AKCS have they acknowledged the problem may be caused by their cover.  Altho' one KCS rep said, when I pushed the cover issue, that she'd "heard" people were saying the cover caused problems but she didn't acknowledge that the actual cover caused problems.  They have totally ignored my mentioning the cover and in my final conversation last week when faced with the information that out of the cover there was no problem and their cover was the problem...the answer was "I'm sorry you feel that way." and "I'm sorry."  Nothing else.  The KCS categorically REFUSED to allow a return for refund of my cover as I've had it over 30 days.  Basically, I'm stuck with a cover that causes RESTARTS/FREEZES and LOSS/REORDING OF COLLECTIONS if it's on my Kindle.

KCS has blinders on as far as the hinged cover Restart problem is concerned.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks Tatiana, that's what I wanted to hear.  I guess they don't want to admit that the cover could be causing it, and have a mass return situation on their hands.  Maybe with all the Kindles being given for Christmas presents, and probably a lot of Amazon covers, this might come to the forefront more than it is now.


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## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

I was in the first wave of K3 orders, with a non-lighted case.

I have never had a single problem with this. My K3 has never frozen up or rebooted, and neither has DH's (also first wave, non-lighted cover)

The only way to confirm that the cover is causing the problem is to remove the K3 from it, and see if the reboots continue.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

akpak said:


> The only way to confirm that the cover is causing the problem is to remove the K3 from it, and see if the reboots continue.


Even if they stopped, just one trial wouldn't prove the cover was the problem. I'd try going back and forth several times.

Mike


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## nomoyoyo (Dec 13, 2010)

It's all in the Case/Cover...  At least that's where my problems were coming from.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."  Or a Case/Cover..

Even after KCS replaced my new Kindle 3 for the third time, and I had upgraded to V 3.03, my problems continued 
until I stopped using my non light Kindle Case/Cover..

My Kindle has been working perfectly for the past 72 hours since taking it out of it's case/cover, and it had never gone
over 2 hours without locking up, freezing or losing my place in the book before I removed it from the case/cover.

If you're using V 3.03 in you Kindle 3, don't use the Kindle case/cover with the metal hooks and the odds are your problems will stop.

Today KCS gave me credit for my old hinged cover and I purchased a new Belkin non hinged case as a replacement from Amazon.
I'm keeping my Kindle in it's original box until the replacement arrives. 

These same problems were plaguing my brother in law until he took his new Kindle out of it's case/cover 48 hours ago.  
His problems have all stopped too since removing the case/cover.

I posted this information previously on another thread..


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh wow. I ordered my k3 on July 28th, and had the freeze/reboot problem right from the start. The software upgrades seemed to stop the problem for good, but lately this has been happening again more and more - - like, almost every time I try to read my K3 this week. 

I bought the unlighted Amazon cover for my K3 a while after buying the K3 (maybe a month later?). I haven't tried taking it off, to see if that helps. Guess it's worth a shot.  

Modified to add: OK, after writing that I thought I'd start my Kindle and predictably, it happened AGAIN - - every time I try to wake it up, it freezes/reboots. At least it doesn't happen while reading and navigating around on it, like it did in the beginning. GRRR... I really like this cover!!


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

nomoyoyo said:


> It's all in the Case/Cover... At least that's where my problems were coming from.


It could still be a manufacturing variance in the Kindle itself. I've seen that sort of thing in my past life as a Quality Control/Assurance guy.

Mike


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## Eugene (Dec 11, 2010)

Tatiana said:


> The KCS categorically REFUSED to allow a return for refund of my cover as I've had it over 30 days


Do you want to try again? There are some ppl on Amazon's forum who bought this cover a few months ago and got refund from Amazon in recent days.
At least, they wrote they got a refund


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## nicuknitter (Dec 28, 2008)

I put my K3 into the lighted cover upon reciept and had multiple restart/reboot problems.  K3 was replaced within 2 weeks and was put into the same cover. No issues with new K3 for many months and it has lived in the cover.


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## TheRiddler (Nov 11, 2010)

So the evidence seems to be pointing to a manufacturing fault with the Kindle that causes some devices to have problems with the covers.

I wonder, has anyone had this reboot issue, got a new cover and used that without any problems?

I'm interested as my dad has bought my mum a Kindle for her birthday after seeing mine, and ordered her a lighted cover.


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## Rebekah (Oct 9, 2009)

As I mentioned in another thread, I've taken my K3 out of the cover to see what happens.  In the meantime, I've ordered a new type of cover that doesn't use hooks.  It will be here between 12/26 and 1/7.  

Even if the fault is with the device itself and it is being triggered by the cover's hooks, I'll honestly just be happy if it functions normally with my new unhooked cover.  I am going to call Kindle Cust Svc, though, to let them know so they can add another number to the statistics, so to speak.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

I haven't had any problems and I love my lighted cover.  It looks like the problem may be with the Kindle and not the cover?


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## Rebekah (Oct 9, 2009)

unknown2cherubim said:


> I haven't had any problems and I love my lighted cover. It looks like the problem may be with the Kindle and not the cover?


Most of the problems are experienced with the non-lighted covers. If you have a lighted cover, you most likely won't experience any problems because the connecters are designed differently to conduct power to the light. The problem itself is either with the hinges on the non-lit covers, or the hardware in the Kindle that comes into contact with these hinges. Either way, when the Kindles are removed from the hinged, non-lit covers, the problems stop.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

jmiked said:


> Even if they stopped, just one trial wouldn't prove the cover was the problem. I'd try going back and forth several times.
> 
> Mike


I did take it out of the cover and use it, no problem back in the cover problems; this was done multiple times. In the last ten days EVERY TIME I put it back into the Amazon hinged non-lighted cover it does the spontaneous RESTART/FREEZE/DELETE or REORDER COLLECTIONS stuff. My conclusion was the problems were caused by the cover. KCS says, "I'm sorry."


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## Shetlander (Mar 10, 2009)

I had problems with reboots, losing my place, battery running down with my first two K3’s that were in a non-lighted cover.  I ran an experiment with the second K3 and the cover.  Almost immediately upon being put in the cover, it would freeze/reboot and then continue having problems.  I tried this several times.  It ran perfectly when not in the cover.  I wanted to keep the second K3 but Amazon insisted I return it since they had already shipped out the third K3.  They gave me a $40 credit for my troubles.  I beat in the hinges on the cover and used it with Velcro on the third K3 until buying a lovely, light cover from Beesocks.  I’ve never had any issues with the third K3 freezing or rebooting, though it did “stutter” just a bit last night and I thought I would need to do a reset (but I didn’t).  I’ve been using it cover-free since about a week after the release of the K3.  

So I can’t speak for all non-lighted covers but I can say that with my second K3 the cover's hinges sure seemed to cause the rebooting problem and I strong suspect that it was the cause of the first K3’s constant rebooting.


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

Rebekah said:


> Most of the problems are experienced with the non-lighted covers. If you have a lighted cover, you most likely won't experience any problems because the connecters are designed differently to conduct power to the light. The problem itself is either with the hinges on the non-lit covers, or the hardware in the Kindle that comes into contact with these hinges. Either way, when the Kindles are removed from the hinged, non-lit covers, the problems stop.


I've heard as many or more people talk about problems with the lighted cover. Then again, it's what my wife has, so I've been looking for those reports because hers has started to reboot frequently, isn't indexing, and is fully charged. This weekend, she was on a trip and it froze on her completely.

I don't know if it is the cover or not, but the performance of her K3 is disappointing compared to my DX.


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## Broadus (Nov 29, 2010)

Was the problem with earlier K3's or with more recent ones as well. Mine is less than two weeks old with a lighted cover, but no problems thus far.

Bill


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I removed the cover and it solved the problem, but instead of returning the cover, I chose to modify it to eliminate the hinge inserts.


Jeff - how did you modify the cover so it still holds the K3 but doesn't use the hinges? I really like the cover, but I'm on my 3d K3. This one is doing well so far, only a couple of reboots at first, none lately, but the fact is I have yet to see all of the screen savers on any K3 because every time it reboots, it starts over with the blasted boy under tree pic, which I'm heartily sick of. Anyway, if I could keep this cover and have the K3 secure and functioning, I'd like to do that.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

ellenoc said:


> Jeff - how did you modify the cover so it still holds the K3 but doesn't use the hinges? I really like the cover, but I'm on my 3d K3. This one is doing well so far, only a couple of reboots at first, none lately, but the fact is I have yet to see all of the screen savers on any K3 because every time it reboots, it starts over with the blasted boy under tree pic, which I'm heartily sick of. Anyway, if I could keep this cover and have the K3 secure and functioning, I'd like to do that.


I removed the hinges and glued Velcro strips to the back of the Kindle and cover. You wouldn't know it was modified unless you tried to take off the cover.


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## Shetlander (Mar 10, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I removed the hinges and glued Velcro strips to the back of the Kindle and cover. You wouldn't know it was modified unless you tried to take off the cover.


I wasn't sure how to remove the hinges so I bent them in with a couple taps with a hammer and then also used Velcro. It worked fine but I like my current, much lighter cover.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Thank you.  I just saved app. $35.  I had ordered an Oberon cover, but really wanted an Amazon cover.  I didn't want to take chances with the hinges though.  I was able to cancel Oberon order.  I'll get an Amazon cover and modify it with velcro.  I preferred velcro as opposed to tabs in my K1 Oberon.          

Is there a trick or anything in particular I should know to remove the hinges?


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Jeff said:


> I removed the hinges and glued Velcro strips to the back of the Kindle and cover. You wouldn't know it was modified unless you tried to take off the cover.


Sorry for the dumb question but I thought the Kindle battery powered the light. How is the light powered without the hinges?


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Sorry for the dumb question but I thought the Kindle battery powered the light. How is the light powered without the hinges?


They're talking about the unlighted cover. That's the problem. If you use the lighted cover, there's no way to modify the cover and still have the light work.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Martel47 said:


> They're talking about the unlighted cover. That's the problem. If you use the lighted cover, there's no way to modify the cover and still have the light work.


D'oh. I knew that. I just got confused.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Sorry for the dumb question but I thought the Kindle battery powered the light. How is the light powered without the hinges?


The metal strip that connects the hinges on the unlighted cover shorts out the battery. There should be no problem with the lighted cover.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I removed the hinges and glued Velcro strips to the back of the Kindle and cover. You wouldn't know it was modified unless you tried to take off the cover.


I will try that. I have my 2nd replacement- now in a M-edge cover (have had zero reboots) but I really liked the Amazon cover.. didn't want to put 
it in. Good idea


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## Shawna (Feb 25, 2009)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> I know several people have posted they believe the non-lighted Amazon K3 cover is causing their K3 to reboot sporadically. Has it been proven that this is a fact or is this just something we are guessing at? Has Amazon given any refunds to people who feel this way? (Refunds on the case, I mean).


They refunded mine well after the 30 day period with no questions asked. I told them that I thought that the cover was causing my rebooting problem. They didn't agree or disagree but, they gave me a full refund. BTW, since I removed it from that cover I have had NO reboots. Felix is working perfectly now (about a month I think)!


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## Lisa M. (Jun 15, 2010)

Does anyone know if any of the other hinged covers have caused this? Like Kate Spade?


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## joolz (Aug 24, 2010)

There must be a batch of either Kindles or covers (or combination) that have this issue. I did have rebooting problems with my K3 for a while, but it was resolved by one of the software updates - no issues at all for a few months now. I have an Amazon unlighted cover.

That is frustrating that CS isn't being helpful to those of you with problems


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

joolz said:


> There must be a batch of either Kindles or covers (or combination) that have this issue. I did have rebooting problems with my K3 for a while, but it was resolved by one of the software updates - no issues at all for a few months now. I have an Amazon unlighted cover.
> 
> That is frustrating that CS isn't being helpful to those of you with problems


I'm hoping the new 3.03 update helps my wife's K3.  She was only on 3.01 and I didn't realize it. It did seem to have snappier page turns at least. We'll see about the restart issue.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Jeff said:


> The metal strip that connects the hinges on the unlighted cover shorts out the battery. There should be no problem with the lighted cover.


Do you have any evidence for this Jeff? It's an ideaI raised in this thread http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,44625.0.html but It's only a hypothesis at this stage and it would be interesting to know if there is any truth in it.

Personally, my K3 is in an unlighted cover and I've never had any reboots at all, so this is certainly not a universal problem.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Morf said:


> Do you have any evidence for this Jeff? It's an ideaI raised in this thread http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,44625.0.html but It's only a hypothesis at this stage and it would be interesting to know if there is any truth in it.
> 
> Personally, my K3 is in an unlighted cover and I've never had any reboots at all, so this is certainly not a universal problem.


The only evidence I have is that it happened with two K3s using the same cover. I never claimed that it was a universal problem.


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## dmalovic (Dec 15, 2010)

Jeff said:


> The only evidence I have is that it happened with two K3s using the same cover. I never claimed that it was a universal problem.


It simply might be that your cover has a thicker coat of paint on the hinges, or you take the device out of the cover less frequently, or do not expose it to static electricity as much as some other people do. You can try to put it inside a charged plastic bag, or a fleece sweater or something, and rub some. I am pretty sure, although I cannot be 100% certain, that it will freeze for you, if it is inside the unlighted cover when you do it.


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

Morf said:


> Do you have any evidence for this Jeff? It's an ideaI raised in this thread http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,44625.0.html but It's only a hypothesis at this stage and it would be interesting to know if there is any truth in it.
> 
> Personally, my K3 is in an unlighted cover and I've never had any reboots at all, so this is certainly not a universal problem.


I basically raised the question back on a discussion of whether the hinges on a K2 cover would fit the K3. I expected them to be different since Amazon was planning on using the hinges to power the light. Otherwise they'd risk shorting the battery whenever a K2 cover was used.

I would have expected them to isolate the two tabs of the hinges on the non-lighted covers but instead it seems they may just be relying on a non-conductive coating on the hinge tabs. IMHO not a good move as coatings wear off and get scratched and such. 
I suspect that so long as the coating stays intact there's no issue, once the coating starts to be degraded (either from wear or damage) I'd suspect that shorting the battery is going to cause issues.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Jeff said:


> The only evidence I have is that it happened with two K3s using the same cover. I never claimed that it was a universal problem.


Sorry Jeff, badly phrased on my part. I'm sure there is a problem, and it sounds like it's a big problem with some covers.

What I was wondering if you had any evidence that the hinge is shorting out the battery. That's certainly my theory, and it sounds like it's Tip10's as well. The presence of the paint/coating on the clips of the un-lighted case makes me feel that this might be the cause, but I can't understand why Amazon used paint to prevent a short rather than simply isolating the two clips.

The K2 idea is an interesting one. I've never seen a K2 (they never came to the UK). Did they use the same cases? Was the lighted case available for them?


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Morf said:


> What I was wondering if you had any evidence that the hinge is shorting out the battery. That's certainly my theory, and it sounds like it's Tip10's as well.


Has anyone done the obvious and checked for continuity between the hinges with a multimeter?

I would be happy to check but I don't have an Amazon cover without a light.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Morf said:


> What I was wondering if you had any evidence that the hinge is shorting out the battery.


Only empirical. It might well be that the hinges put pressure on the circuit board which causes a malfunction. I'm only certain that the cover I bought causes a problem on the Kindle 3 that I'm currently using. It has never once spontaneously rebooted with the hinges disconnected but has done so repeatedly with them inserted in the back. I tried it several times so it would seem that the odds against a coincidence are fairly high.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Elk said:


> Has anyone done the obvious and checked for continuity between the hinges with a multimeter?


I just did and there's no continuity.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Elk said:


> Has anyone done the obvious and checked for continuity between the hinges with a multimeter?
> 
> I would be happy to check but I don't have an Amazon cover without a light.


The problem is that the clips on the unlighted case are coated with some sort of black paint or plastic, so I would expect to see no continuity (as Jeff has seen).

The big question would be whether you would get continuity if you scraped off the coating down to bare metal, but that's not something I want to do on my case - it works fine right now and the last thing I want to do is to start having problems!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Morf said:


> The problem is that the clips on the unlighted case are coated with some sort of black paint or plastic, so I would expect to see no continuity (as Jeff has seen).
> 
> The big question would be whether you would get continuity if you scraped off the coating down to bare metal, but that's not something I want to do on my case - it works fine right now and the last thing I want to do is to start having problems!


In the interest of inquiring Kindleboards minds, I just cut my case apart. The two metallic hinge pieces are separate and mounted on a piece of molded polyethylene.

The cause is something else - but I'm not interested enough in solving Amazon's problem to take a Kindle apart.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks, Jeff!

This is ultimately what I wanted to know, but the continuity check was non-destructive.  

I applaud your devotion to science!

This makes things much more interesting however.  The unlit case is not shorting the battery unless there is both negative and positive connections within one of the hinge connections on the Kindle.  

We know this is not the situation as the lit case has metal hinges.  It would cause the same problem, but doesn't.

Hypothesis?  I don't have one at this point.  I believe the anecdotal reports of re-boots occurring only when the Kindle is in the unlit Amazon case, but have no idea how.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Agreed thanks to Jeff for that information - it's nice to know!

So why did Amazon decide to paint the clips on the unlighted case when then didn't paint them on the lighted one? I wish I knew.

Over in the other thread on this subject (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,44625.0.html) I linked to a video which includes detailed shots of the contacts within the clip slots. I've watched this a couple of times and it's not given me any hints as to what else might be the cause, but maybe somebody else might get an idea from it.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Can someone with a lighted case tell us if the positive and negative contacts are on opposite hinges or on a single hinge please?


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

- and + are on separate hinges.

Each hinge is solid plated metal.


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

Okay -- blows my theory out of the water -- also shows at least Amazon was thinking about it since the K2 was a solid piece -- they insured they didn't have "accidents" by making the spread on the hinges different.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Elk said:


> - and + are on separate hinges.
> 
> Each hinge is solid plated metal.


No wonder Amazon's confused.


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

Elk said:


> Thanks, Jeff!
> 
> This is ultimately what I wanted to know, but the continuity check was non-destructive.
> 
> ...


Re. Green Text

The lighted case does cause this same problem. See the multiple threads on that very subject. The same problem happens with my wife's lighted case. I've heard it more from lighted case users than non-lighted case users. In fact, it wasn't until this thread that I heard about it with the unlighted cases.

The fact that it happens with both makes me think it isn't a short circuit problem involving the hinges. The hinges might contribute by pressing on something inside the Kindle, but my question moving forward is: If my k3 constantly reboots because of the case, will any permanent damage remain if I remove the case?


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Quite the interesting mystery. I am wondering - I've heard of many people sending back the cover for a refund, but has anyone here sent back their cover for a replacement (of the same type) that didn't cause the reboot problems? That would be my first step if it happened to me (luckily it hasn't. 3G graphite + non-lit cover) because I really like the cover.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Martel47 said:


> The fact that it happens with both makes me think it isn't a short circuit problem involving the hinges.


No doubt about it. My original theory was dead wrong. There's no conductive connection between the hinges.



Martel47 said:


> The hinges might contribute by pressing on something inside the Kindle, but my question moving forward is: If my k3 constantly reboots because of the case, will any permanent damage remain if I remove the case?


As I said earlier, my Kindle hasn't rebooted once since I took the hinges off with the bench grinder and I've been using it heavily.


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## Eugene (Dec 11, 2010)

Elk said:


> Hypothesis? I don't have one at this point.


It seems, static discharges are main culprits 
At least, users who wrapped some electric tape around hinges (or teared Kindles case down and isolated contacts), reported about error-free operation. 
And there is another interest post on Amazon forum
http://www.amazon.com/cover-causes-Kindle-freeze-reboot/forum/Fx12U61UWYSO3UY/Tx17O3815XVEMVM/10/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl?_encoding=UTF8&cdMsgNo=250&cdItems=25&asin=B003DZ163E&cdSort=oldest&cdMsgID=Mx1YSVIEDCQXZIK#Mx1YSVIEDCQXZIK


> yesterday I got some 32 AWG copper wire (very fine) and a 2.2 Mohm (2,200,000 ohm) resistor, soldered the wire to the resistor ends and wound it tightly around the two terminals. The idea was to create a "bleed" path that would allow charge to dissipate and keep the upper and lower contacts at the same electrical potential. Note: You must have a high value resistor to prevent short-circuiting the battery.
> 
> Now, I can't be sure how good the electrical contact is between the wire and the two terminals. I wound many turns under tension, but who knows if it really made good contact. The good news is that I haven't had a reboot since, but it's way too early to make any conclusions. And of course, this may be a complete wild-goose-chase


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Martel47 said:


> The lighted case does cause this same problem.


Thank you, Martel. I was unaware of this.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Elk said:


> Thanks, Jeff!
> <snipped>
> 
> I applaud your devotion to science!
> ...


Yeah, Jeff. What he said.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Yeah, Jeff. What he said.


Haha. I'm trying to keep my devotion (curiosity) in check. You have no idea how tempted I am to pop this Kindle apart and look for pressure points on the circuit board.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I haven't had any rebooting problem on my K3 with the unlighted cover, except for once in October (multiple times) and once last week (just once but then I charged up my K3 and haven't had any problem since).  Both days when it happened, my charge was low on it.  I'm not taking the hinges off of mine.


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## Tabatha (Oct 4, 2009)

mlewis78 said:


> I haven't had any rebooting problem on my K3 with the unlighted cover, except for once in October (multiple times) and once last week (just once but then I charged up my K3 and haven't had any problem since). Both days when it happened, my charge was low on it. I'm not taking the hinges off of mine.


I also felt this was the problem when my K3 did the freeze/reboot thing after I tried to download the blackjack game from the Book Bazaar thread. It said it downloaded, couldn't find it, so plugged in to charge. Resent from manage your kindle after recharge, and all is well and hasn't rebooted again. Battery did not appear to be low, but I don't think it is showing the balance correctly. It's been a week since recharge, and still shows as almost full, by a sliver. Contrast is not sufficient to see level.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Jeff said:


> You have no idea how tempted I am to pop this Kindle apart and look for pressure points on the circuit board.


I triple-dog-dare you.

Jeff! Jeff! Jeff! Jeff! Jeff!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Elk said:


> I triple-dog-dare you.
> 
> Jeff! Jeff! Jeff! Jeff! Jeff!


What's the use? Everyone would argue with what I discovered.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

No we wouldn't!

Yes we would!

(Sorry, couldn't resist  )


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

I disagree with Morf.

In every respect.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I completely agree with Elk.


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## jhall124 (Dec 2, 2010)

I've been using a lit cover for a week now w/o issue. However, I'm concerned from what I'm reading. Thinking of all that's discussed, and what I paid for the lit cover, I can buy a non lit/non amazon cover and buy a clamp on light for the same or less money. The light on the lit case isn't the best anyway.

Hmm, what to do, what to do....


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Keep your cover and enjoy it.  Forget about this thread.  

Most have no problem.  If you have a problem call Kindle customer service and address it.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I completely agree with Elk.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Jeff said:


> I completely agree with Elk.


_*laughing out loud and glad nobody can hear her.*_


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Elk said:


> I disagree with Morf.
> 
> In every respect.





Jeff said:


> I completely agree with Elk.


I think Elf is right, but I disagree with Jeff.

Is this a five minute argument or the full half-hour?


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

jhall124 said:


> I've been using a lit cover for a week now w/o issue. However, I'm concerned from what I'm reading. Thinking of all that's discussed, and what I paid for the lit cover, I can buy a non lit/non amazon cover and buy a clamp on light for the same or less money. The light on the lit case isn't the best anyway.
> 
> Hmm, what to do, what to do....


Dragging this thread back on-topic, what to do? Nothing! If it's working fine for you, don't worry about it. Mine is working fine in an un-lighted cover, so if you're not affected by the problems don't worry about it.

There should be an "Internet rule for problems in a product" - the fact is that 99%+ of all devices work just fine, but if you read the internet you'll quickly come to the conclusion that 99% of them will fail in the first 3 seconds or catch fire or leak poisonous chemicals, or will make your television or telephone or favourite chair fail or catch fire or leak chemicals just by being in the same room as it.


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## jhall124 (Dec 2, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> _*laughing out loud and glad nobody can hear her.*_





Jeff said:


> I completely agree with Elk.


Agreed.

I'll just keep what I have. I may, however, use a small piece of velcro or doubled sided tape on the back of the Kindle to keep it from pulling away from the case. I'm wondering if "that's" how these issues are created. Just a thought...


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

jhall124 said:


> I may, however, use a small piece of velcro or doubled sided tape on the back of the Kindle to keep it from pulling away from the case. I'm wondering if "that's" how these issues are created. Just a thought...


Good thinking. It may be that the pulling-pushing and/or up-down movement of the hinges is causing the problem by flexing the circuit boards.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

Elk said:


> Good thinking. It may be that the pulling-pushing and/or up-down movement of the hinges is causing the problem by flexing the circuit boards.


I don't know about that causing it. I had the Smak-Dab clip on mine to hold it down and I still had problems.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Hmm . . .

Another hypothesis appears to be failing.


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## LibbyD (Apr 28, 2009)

Amazon made a statement about this issue today. I posted the information in the Accessories section.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,45663.0.html


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Excellent!

Thank you for posting this.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I think I'll send mine back and see what they say.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

Jeff said:


> I think I'll send mine back and see what they say.


Let us know!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> Let us know!


Sorry, bad joke. I cut mine up to see if it was shorting out the light contacts.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

Jeff said:


> Sorry, bad joke. I cut mine up to see if it was shorting out the light contacts.


OK, I guess I missed that. So you are one of *those*. I have a son who has always been like that, he'll take anything apart to see how it works!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> OK, I guess I missed that. So you are one of *those*. I have a son who has always been like that, he'll take anything apart to see how it works!


So far I've resisted taking the Kindle apart...


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## Shetlander (Mar 10, 2009)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> I don't know about that causing it. I had the Smak-Dab clip on mine to hold it down and I still had problems.


Yeah, the Smak-Dab clip didn't help with my cover either. Neither did Velcro.


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## ff2 (Oct 20, 2010)

While Jeff dissected his cover and found no metal connections, might the "plastic" assembly plus the hooks still be carry a static current into the kindle's innards?  After all my polyester fleece can build up a charge and how many of us rubbed balloons against hair or other surface to create a charge on NON-metallic balloons.

Jeff Amazon should welcome your case back to the Amazon Anatomy labs.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

ff2 said:


> While Jeff dissected his cover and found no metal connections, might the "plastic" assembly plus the hooks still be carry a static current into the kindle's innards? After all my polyester fleece can build up a charge and how many of us rubbed balloons against hair or other surface to create a charge on NON-metallic balloons.
> 
> Jeff Amazon should welcome your case back to the Amazon Anatomy labs.


That's possible. Here's a bottom view:










My new theory is that the clips get bent upward over time and make an occasional connection between the positive light contacts and ground.


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## Romulusuk (Oct 17, 2010)

I've had a lot of trouble with my K3 refusing to spring to life and requiring a hard re-boot. Even the re-boot failed so that it only worked with great persistencde. I had my first K3 replaced (excellent service by the way) but the replacement was exactly the same. 

This morning I contacted Support and was told by the technician that she had received an email this morning saying that the cause was to do with the cover. Apparently, non-lighted Amazon-branded covers are the culprits. Unfortunately, she had no further details as to why.

She organized a full refund for the cover plus a £20 credit on top.


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## carrie (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks to all of you who have posted on this problem, but I wondered if Amazon has acknowledged that this happens with the lighted cover too or only the non-lighted cover?  I have had my K3 since the day it came out, along with a lighted cover (which I love).  I have had no problems with my K3 until early last week, when I picked up my kindle and noticed that when I hit the switch to wake it up, I was at my home page rather than on the last page of the book I had been reading.  When I went to the book, my place was lost.  This has happened four times in total, two of them in the last two days.  I had looked through KB to see what others had found, but the problem seemed to be isolated to the non-lighted case -- did I miss posts from others with this issue and a lighted case?


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Sandpiper said:


> Thank you. I just saved app. $35. I had ordered an Oberon cover, but really wanted an Amazon cover. I didn't want to take chances with the hinges though. I was able to cancel Oberon order. I'll get an Amazon cover and modify it with velcro. I preferred velcro as opposed to tabs in my K1 Oberon.
> 
> Is there a trick or anything in particular I should know to remove the hinges?


Sandpiper - I also had the velcro for my K1 Oberon cover. I just put some velcro on my K3 and am using the K1 Oberon cover on my K3. Working just fine!


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Jeff said:


> My new theory is that the clips get bent upward over time and make an occasional connection between the positive light contacts and ground.


Very possible. A short would cause a reboot. My Blackberry reboots on its own (annoying as it take roughly five minutes to boot.) It appears random, but my guess is that something causes a short and off it goes. I'll be getting a new one in a couple of months so I am ignoring it.

Thanks for the picture!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

carrie said:


> -- did I miss posts from others with this issue and a lighted case?


Others have indeed reported problems that they attributed to the lighted case.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

carrie said:


> Thanks to all of you who have posted on this problem, but I wondered if Amazon has acknowledged that this happens with the lighted cover too or only the non-lighted cover? I have had my K3 since the day it came out, along with a lighted cover (which I love). I have had no problems with my K3 until early last week, when I picked up my kindle and noticed that when I hit the switch to wake it up, I was at my home page rather than on the last page of the book I had been reading. When I went to the book, my place was lost. This has happened four times in total, two of them in the last two days. I had looked through KB to see what others had found, but the problem seemed to be isolated to the non-lighted case -- did I miss posts from others with this issue and a lighted case?


Carrie, there are people reporting the problem with the lighted case as well - have a look through the Amazon discussion thread that LibbyD posted above (I'm pretty sure that's where I saw it).


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Jeff said:


> My new theory is that the clips get bent upward over time and make an occasional connection between the positive light contacts and ground.


That's an interesting thought. Have you watched the video I posted above (or looked at the other Kindle innards pictures on the web)? My hypothesis from that is the upper clip is ground for the light, and the lower clip is power, but you can clearly see that there are two contacts in the lower clip - why two?

Of course, if power is on the lower clip, and the clips are isolated from each other, then the only way there could be a connection is if there is a ground point somewhere where the bottom clip can touch, which is an incredibly bad bit of design!

There again, I keep asking myself - why the paint on the clips on the un-lighted case?

Static is another thought, as ff2 said. I'm afraid my electrical training stopped at basic high-school (other than some electronics at university) so any analysis of static is a closed book to me.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I read in the mobileread forums that Amazon is taking returns on the case now in case this is the problem, but they don't know that this is the cause of the problem.  If it is, I wonder why I haven't had more of a problem with mine?  I use my Amazon case part of the time, since I have an Oberon, but I've only had the reboot happen twice.


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