# The effect of Amazon's Adult Filter



## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Published a book in the middle of July, and since then it's sold 272 copies. 

Published a similar book this past weekend, and in the first full day it sold 11 copies.  It was then given the adult filter, and I haven't sold a copy since.

Same price, similar content and titles (no 'bad' words in either).  The only difference I can see is the newer one shows a shadowy breast (no nipple).

I plan on following Serena Kitt's advice on how to try to get the filter removed, including changing the cover and altering the title slightly.  If that doesn't work, I'm going to unpublish and republish. 

This is just silliness.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I agree, it's silliness. I have absolutely no problem with my books being labeled "adult" and a filter being added to Amazon so kids can't stumble across them. I do have a problem with the "adult" filter being applied higgly-piggly to some books but not to others, and to the fact that it makes books hard to find and kills sales. That doesn't benefit readers, authors, or, one would think, Amazon. The sensible thing for them to do would be to add an adult filter a la Smashwords, and cease with this slapdash and ineffective approach.


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## ingrid avluv (Feb 15, 2013)

The adult filter basically buries your book, never to be seen or sold again. It's ruined several of my titles.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

And yet I can go to Google Images and type "naked" and see . . . naked people.

Not sure why we bother trying to censor small pockets of the internet when the biggest portal out there provides unlimited porn.


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## X. Aratare (Feb 5, 2013)

Since books 2 and 3 of the manga series I have going were removed from the filter, they've sold a bunch more so I've noticed an effect.  But they never really recovered fully I don't think.  I'm releasing book 4 (again no sex, no even nakedness, but its YAOI! so they will probably put it in the dungeon again) next month so let's see it if lifts all boats.

But what kills me is that why can't I, as an adult, find and read what I want to find and read? If Smashwords can figure out a way for us to do so why can't Amazon?  Why cripple some books but do nothing about others?


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

How can you tell if you've been adult filtered by Amazon?


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

Alan Petersen said:


> How can you tell if you've been adult filtered by Amazon?


good question

i found this:

http://smutwriters.com/2013/04/29/the-amazon-adult-filter-your-questions-answered/


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Decided to skip asking them to change it and just unpublished and published it new with a different cover and title.  Who knows, maybe it depends on the random person making the decision at Amazon.

Made sure to clearly mark the blurb with the former name, so that the few people who bought the old one don't buy it again.

By the way, Smashwords and B&N suck when it comes to updating.  With Smashwords, I changed the manuscript, which caused it to republish with a trip through the meatgrinder.  Then I changed the cover, which caused it to republish again and another trip through the MG.  Then I had to change the title separately, which thankfully didn't go through the MG.  For B&N, updated the new manuscript but the preview showed two covers, one old and one new.  When I went to update the cover, it said it was updated, but if I moved off the screen and came back, the old cover reappeared.  Once again, Kobo outdid both of them.


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

swolf said:


> Decided to skip asking them to change it and just unpublished and published it new with a different cover and title. Who knows, maybe it depends on the random person making the decision at Amazon.
> 
> Made sure to clearly mark the blurb with the former name, so that the few people who bought the old one don't buy it again.


This is what I did. I uploaded at the weekend and some people suggested Amazon staff are sightly more prudish. Changed the cover, changed the title, placed into romance (it does have romantic themes) and I avoided the adult ban.....so far.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

swolf said:


> Decided to skip asking them to change it and just unpublished and published it new with a different cover and title. Who knows, maybe it depends on the random person making the decision at Amazon.
> 
> Made sure to clearly mark the blurb with the former name, so that the few people who bought the old one don't buy it again.
> 
> By the way, Smashwords and B&N suck when it comes to updating. With Smashwords, I changed the manuscript, which caused it to republish with a trip through the meatgrinder. Then I changed the cover, which caused it to republish again and another trip through the MG. Then I had to change the title separately, which thankfully didn't go through the MG. For B&N, updated the new manuscript but the preview showed two covers, one old and one new. When I went to update the cover, it said it was updated, but if I moved off the screen and came back, the old cover reappeared. Once again, Kobo outdid both of them.


Yeah, I had similar horrors working through my aggregator. My latest approach is to launch on Amazon via KDP, let the books live free a little, benefit from the Prime, and give me time to do all the tinkering. I go to all other channels only when I'm 100% sure the book's really done.


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## MichaelEgon (Jul 25, 2011)

swolf said:


> Published a book in the middle of July, and since then it's sold 272 copies.
> 
> Published a similar book this past weekend, and in the first full day it sold 11 copies. It was then given the adult filter, and I haven't sold a copy since.
> 
> ...


It's worse than silly. It's ridiculous.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

All of my novels contain sex scenes and my first novel, _Cartier's Ring_, features a bare-breasted woman on the front cover. I was concerned about filtering after reading this thread, so I checked on http://www.salesrankexpress.com/. The site confirmed that none of my books is listed as ADULT, even _The Art of Deneb_, which contains dozens of full-color, full-page images of bare-breasted and nude women. I don't know with certainty why Amazon is giving my books a free pass, as it were. But I have some guesses.

While my novels do contain nudity and sex, such scenes constitute a small percentage of the total text. There are eight sexually intense scenes in _Deneb_, for instance, but that's roughly 15,000 words out of 267,000 words, less than 6%. _Cartier's Ring_ contains only brief sex passages, not full scenes, amounting to perhaps 2% of text. _Cartier's Ring_ is also helped out by the fact that it's historical fiction. I know already, because of subject matter, that the book is being given wider latitude in terms of filtering than other books treating similar subjects. The boogeyman filter for Cartier's Ring is not ADULT, but HISTORICAL FICTION. For most people, I suspect, the genre tag translates to BORING! DO NOT READ!

As I said, I can only guess why my books are being treated differently from those I see reported here. I have not read or even glanced at any of these books. My guesswork, then, is based on my books alone, and my knowledge of their content. My best guess, limited as it is, is that nudity and sex are unimportant, almost inconsequential aspects of my novels, that the text percentages support this, and that Amazon may be basing its filtering on these qualities. Based on this guess, I would imagine novels that are mostly about sex will probably get tagged.


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## Virginia Wade (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm having success getting them to take off the restrictions. I've had to change titles. I also change them on the cover. Now we are moaning for Bigfoot. Lol!

However, I'm diversifying by writing in a different genre. My eggs are going into different baskets.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Pearson Moore said:


> even _The Art of Deneb_, which contains dozens of full-color, full-page images of bare-breasted and nude women. I don't know with certainty why Amazon is giving my books a free pass, as it were. But I have some guesses.


Yeah, it's kind of a double standard. Unless your book is about sex, they'll let the nudity pass. To me a bare breast is a bare breast.



Pearson Moore said:


> Based on this guess, I would imagine novels that are mostly about sex will probably get tagged.


It's not that simple. All of my books are mostly about sex, but not all of them are tagged. The key seems to be the cover and the title.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Virginia Wade said:


> I'm having success getting them to take off the restrictions. I've had to change titles. I also change them on the cover. Now we are moaning for Bigfoot. Lol!


Sorry to laugh, but that's pretty funny. (Note to self: Moaning is ok with Amazon.) Did you have to guess why it was given the tag, or did they inform you? And how long after you changed it did the tag get lifted?

I wonder sometimes if it's not the changes that gets it lifted, but instead running into a different censor who has higher tolerances.



Virginia Wade said:


> However, I'm diversifying by writing in a different genre. My eggs are going into different baskets.


Same here. But it was one of my different baskets that got dinged.

I've read some of your viking stuff. Very nice.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I like the idea of being able to filter adult titles from my kids--but something like this has to be handled deftly. I doesn't sound like it's working well at all.

The thing I hate it how easy it is to bring up provocative covers when searching--but again, doesn't sound like they have a uniform policy hon covers anyway.

In sort, I do like they _idea_ behind the filter, but doesn't seem to be working--for readers or writers!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

DDark said:


> Can someone explain why we need to filter on a retail site? I"m assuming most kids don't have credit cards and a responsible parent shouldn't allow any device their kids use to be able to make purchases under their account, if they do, then the responsibility falls on the parent.
> 
> Geez. Back in my day, all we had to do was wait until our parents went to bed and watched Showtime.


You just made me giggle. I know of a 9 year old that was visiting her aunt. Said 9 year old faked being asleep then got up after aunt went to bed. She promptly turned on the wireless and was playing on FB and doing who knows what else. Aunt had mistakenly assumed that 9 year olds would not know how to do much on a computer.
Though I do agree put parental controls on your devices if you have children.
Now I think most retailers do have filters so kids can't accidently find something. It is a CYA thing. Cover your *ss.
Besides you do not have to be logged in to do a search at Amazon.

And in my day we had to wait till after 9pm for the R movies to come on HBO.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

I suspect the problem is that a certain CEO's kids have reached the age where they're interested in sex, and Daddy has suddenly realized with horror that he's the biggest purveyor of porn on the internet, and he doesn't want to face their eager questions and smart remarks over the dinner table.  

Tech guys can be really prudish, e.g. Steve Jobs.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

DDark said:


> Are you kidding? Kids that age hack into the Pentagon. My friends 9 year old twin boys had been looking at porn or computers or something, and tried to erase it. Their dad is a tech whiz and knew how to recover the sites they visited. I think parents need to take some responsibility as to securing the privacy on these features (or not giving it to them at all. I'm in the camp that thinks kids don't need all this crap until they're a teenager). You cannot shield your kids from the world, but my question is, how much time and effort is going into blocking violent stuff they're exposed to on a daily basis on TV, videos, and movies? Seriously.
> 
> And PS: I grew up watching Chainsaw massacre movies at age 9, and leaning about sex from cable. I turned out just fine. I am not scarred for life. I am now just an adult with an overactive imagination who isn't afraid of fantasy.
> 
> It's the reality I see on the news that scares the crap out of me.


Now I didn't watch the Chainsaw movies but that was because I didn't like those kind of movies. I also could not watch the RAT movies that my little brother watched. He had to be somewhere between 4 and 8.
We could watch whatever we wanted on TV too. Oh and my brother was building anatomically correct sand mermaids at 8.

Oh on that 9 year old, her great grandmother thought that an iPad was better than a computer because the kid couldn't do as much on an iPad. (I know the stupid it burns)

Oh and I know a 30 something that got grounded from his dad's computer for watching porn. Ok I think it was more the trying to hide it by deleting all the history.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Avis Black said:


> I suspect the problem is that a certain CEO's kids have reached the age where they're interested in sex, and Daddy has suddenly realized with horror that he's the biggest purveyor of porn on the internet, and he doesn't want to face their eager questions and smart remarks over the dinner table.
> 
> Tech guys can be really prudish, e.g. Steve Jobs.


I think it is the fact that there is a not so silent group in the US that thinks that violence is ok but sex should only be done in the dark under the sheets and for procreation only. So to please those people, the rest of us get filtered.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

Kids get into all sorts of stuff on the internet. I've said before that before you worry about what your kids are seeing on Amazon, you probably want to worry about Tumblr and LiveJournal and a million fanfic sites. But be that as it may, I have no problem with Amazon trying to accommodate parents who want more filters for their kids. (Part of the problem is that a perfectly innocent search can bring up covers and titles a lot of people don't want their kids seeing, which is a legitimate concern, IMHO.) But they're just not going about it the right way. If you're going to filter adult material, filter it all the same way, and mark it clearly so adults who _want _to buy it can find it.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

MegHarris said:


> Kids get into all sorts of stuff on the internet. I've said before that before you worry about what your kids are seeing on Amazon, you probably want to worry about Tumblr and LiveJournal and a million fanfic sites. But be that as it may, I have no problem with Amazon trying to accommodate parents who want more filters for their kids. (Part of the problem is that a perfectly innocent search can bring up covers and titles a lot of people don't want their kids seeing, which is a legitimate concern, IMHO.) But they're just not going about it the right way. If you're going to filter adult material, filter it all the same way, and mark it clearly so adults who _want _to buy it can find it.


Not amazon but if you have girls that love the Princesses turn on Safe search on yahoo before letting them type in Cinderella. Especially if they are looking for images.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh and I know a 30 something that got grounded from his dad's computer for watching porn. Ok I think it was more the trying to hide it by deleting all the history.


That's just sad.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

Given how much money porn/erotica/etc. makes for Amazon, I'm really amazed that they haven't come up with a satisfactory solution already. Readers want it, writers make money at it, Amazon sells big...what's not to love? I don't mind them making the "show me everything!" filter opt-in, but maybe they've come up against a barrier where it's too hard to explain to a non-techie how to turn it on (<-- what she said).


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## gustav.jorgenson (Dec 3, 2013)

I got slammed on Cyber Monday by an intense dropoff of sales for a title (from ~4,800 in kindle store to ~24,000)









I had no idea what the cause was, but another author clued me into the problem - ADULT FILTER!

The main problem for me was that I was getting a lot of sales via the "Customers Also Bought" recommendations section of the more popular erotic authors in my genre cluster. Once my most popular title was marked as Adult, it could no longer be included in customer recommendations. OUCH! This site can tell you if your title has been marked "ADULT."

http://www.salesrankexpress.com/

My problem was that the cover photo had included a bare bottom, so I replaced the cover and sent Amazon a request to re-evaluate my title. They responded within one business day and have removed the filter.

I strongly recommend that erotic authors avoid the ADULT filter. For me, sales from the customer recommendation sections have dwarfed all other forms of promotion combined. And I have two blogs that draw over 35k visits per month.

Just my $0.02,

GJ


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

tkkenyon said:


> "Skinamax" was even better.
> 
> TK aka BB


Ours was HBO after dark. No even R movies till after 10pm eastern.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Same thing happened to one of mine under a pen name. After it got put in the dungeon it quit selling. I changed the name. THey said it was the cover but couldn't give specifics. When I kept pressing them, I put the more hardcore title back...and they said it was the title. I changed the title and they came back and said they accepted the hardcore title and removed it from ADULT. But they haven't. They give me a link to "prove" it's for sale, but it always was. It was never banned. Sigh. THey absolutely CANNOT give a person a straight answer.

Nor does it show up under any of its keywords. I have asked 4 times why and they totally ignore that question.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Hey guys,

I'm not in your genre or situation so my take on this might not be helpful, but I hate to see others hurting so... I was listening to the self pub podcast the other day and the whole Kobogate thing came up. There was varying opinion on what could be done to mitigate the fallout, but one thing struck a chord with me about my own vulnerability to any kind of big change at Amazon or other sales channels I use and it made me bless my email list even more.

I know that my discoverability is very much dependent upon my permafree titles. I watch the conversion rate like its gold and someone is out to steal it. Can you tell me if the current problem is because being filtered means you are not appearing upon public lists on Amazon because the filter prevents it? Or is it because "naughty" permafree is impossible now? Or something else?

I ask because if its that you used to get your readers mainly through popularity lists and ranks in those, maybe you could educate your readers through your email list upon how to use Amazon now that it has changed. If the filter is causing the lack of eyeballs on target, could you teach your guys how to turn it off or on? I actually don't know myself how to get into the dungeon. Maybe you need to give your guys and gals a map?

Just throwing idea around here. If you all do a concerted mail to your list all with the same content worked out ahead of time??


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## 72263 (Sep 10, 2013)

This person already wrote a book for readers on how to find erotica behind the adult filter back in May: www.amazon.com/Find-Erotica-Erotic-eBooks-Stories-ebook/dp/B00CODMIV0/ and made it a permafree.

Of course the situation has changed since then, but for some other things it's still accurate.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Not sure why we bother trying to censor small pockets of the internet when the biggest portal out there provides unlimited porn.


We don't collectively bother. Amazon makes a decision for Amazon, and Google makes a decision for Google. Under our system we are free to write what we choose, distribute what we choose, buy what we choose, and read what we choose. We can even hold out for the publishing deal we choose. There is no obligation for everyone to march in lockstep. We decide for ourselves what we will do, and we have no obligation to write, publish, distribute, buy, or read anything.

I decide for myself. Every author here decides for herself what she will write. Everyone here decides what he will read. Everyone here decides what they will distribute.

This is essentially a free market. When people are free to decide for themselves, those markets can be very harsh.

We have collectively decided our standard is freedom of expression. The objective is to maximize individual freedom of expression. The difference in the behavior of Amazon and Google attests to that freedom. That precludes collective standards.

Aint this a great country?


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2013)

Terrence O'Brien  notion that we're operating in a free market isn't quite true to my mind.

Years ago Jackie Susann (Valley of the Dolls) sued a Chicago department store for putting her books under the table. Customers had to ask for the book by name before the store produced a copy.

Her reasoning was that if the store stocked the best seller, the store should display it.

I feel the same about Amazon. If Amazon accepts your book, then Amazon should make it easy for the buyer to find. Otherwise, Amazon is denying you the right to make sales.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Okey Dokey said:


> Terrence O'Brien notion that we're operating in a free market isn't quite true to my mind.
> 
> Years ago Jackie Susann (Valley of the Dolls) sued a Chicago department store for putting her books under the table. Customers had to ask for the book by name before the store produced a copy.
> 
> ...


Anyone can sue anyone else for anything they choose. Just file the forms with the court. The ability to sue tells us nothing about the free market. It tells us about law and the litigiousness of some folks.

Authors have no right to have someone else sell their book. Authors do have a right to sell their books themselves, but they have no right to demand anyone else facilitate their efforts. Note how agents routinely refuse to represent books, publishers routinely reject books, bookstores routinely refuse to stock books, and consumers routinely refuse to buy books. They are under no obligation to the author.

Amazon does have an obligation to comply with the terms if the contract, but that contract includes no obligation that Amazon make it easy for buyers to find anything.

Suppliers don't have a right to impose obligations on the rest of the market. In many markets suppliers have the strength to do it, but that is not due to any right. It is due to supply and demand.

This certainly isn't a particularly favorable situation for authors. Its very difficult and challenging. But that doesn't change the way things work under our system. Its the same situation everyone else engaged in commerce faces.

Aint this a great country?


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

I've noticed that the filter has gotten a lot more effective lately. Which is great for regular browsers but it also means it's impossible to find erotica now, even by mistake. I just Amazon searched 'The Babysitters' and wonder of wonders, only one erotica book popped up. There was a time when that search would have brought up nothing but girls in skimpy skirts. Now if Amazon can get a 'switch' like the above posters are asking for, that would be better. Because I honestly have no idea where all the erotica disappeared to. Is there a secret Amazon dark site?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wansit said:


> I've noticed that the filter has gotten a lot more effective lately. Which is great for regular browsers but it also means it's impossible to find erotica now, even by mistake. I just Amazon searched 'The Babysitters' and wonder of wonders, only one erotica book popped up. There was a time when that search would have brought up nothing but girls in skimpy skirts. Now if Amazon can get a 'switch' like the above posters are asking for, that would be better. Because I honestly have no idea where all the erotica disappeared to. Is there a secret Amazon dark site?


http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_7?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=erotica&sprefix=Erotica%2Cnull%2C589#/ref=sr_nr_n_0?rh=n%3A133140011%2Cn%3A157057011%2Ck%3Aerotica&keywords=erotica&ie=UTF8&qid=1386540148&rnid=133141011


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_7?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=erotica&sprefix=Erotica%2Cnull%2C589#/ref=sr_nr_n_0?rh=n%3A133140011%2Cn%3A157057011%2Ck%3Aerotica&keywords=erotica&ie=UTF8&qid=1386540148&rnid=133141011


Hmm okay. That answers my query.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Wansit said:


> I've noticed that the filter has gotten a lot more effective lately. Which is great for regular browsers but it also means it's impossible to find erotica now, even by mistake. I just Amazon searched 'The Babysitters' and wonder of wonders, only one erotica book popped up. There was a time when that search would have brought up nothing but girls in skimpy skirts. Now if Amazon can get a 'switch' like the above posters are asking for, that would be better. Because I honestly have no idea where all the erotica disappeared to. Is there a secret Amazon dark site?


In the recent Amazon purge, 'babysitter' was one of the words they went after. Any book with that in the title or description was pulled, and you had to removed that word to get it back on sale. I had several that got bounced for that reason, and I changed it from 'babysitter' to 'sitter' and they let it go. Didn't have to change the book's contents at all, just the title and blurb.


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