# Comedy? Humorous novels, comic fantasies, funny mysteries, etc...



## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm a rather big fan of comic novels and I'm curious how well, and if, those types of books are received, any success stories, failures, pitfalls, pratfalls, and various other sundry matters related to wit writ large.

Comic novels include things like Auntie Mame and Catch-22. Comic short stories like O'Henry, Twain, Wodehouse, or Thurber. Comic fantasies like Christopher Moore's Lamb or Love Story trilogy. Tom Holt's novels, such as Expecting Someone Taller. Or Terry Pratchett. Piers Anthony. Robert Asprin's Myth Adventures. Comic mysteries like Donald Westlake or Carl Hiaasen or Janet Evanovich. Comic science fiction like Asprin's Phule books. John Scalzi's Redshirts. Or that one guy, what's his name... Adams.

Not necessarily (the news) looking for recommendations, but I'll take those too. I'm really hoping there's a coterie of at least mildly amusing writers camped out in WC looking to talk shop as it were.


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## RichardWolanski (Jan 20, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I'm a rather big fan of comic novels and I'm curious how well, and if, those types of books are received, any success stories, failures, pitfalls, pratfalls, and various other sundry matters related to wit writ large.
> 
> Comic novels include things like Auntie Mame and Catch-22. Comic short stories like O'Henry, Twain, Wodehouse, or Thurber. Comic fantasies like Christopher Moore's Lamb or Love Story trilogy. Tom Holt's novels, such as Expecting Someone Taller. Or Terry Pratchett. Piers Anthony. Robert Asprin's Myth Adventures. Comic mysteries like Donald Westlake or Carl Hiaasen or Janet Evanovich. Comic science fiction like Asprin's Phule books. John Scalzi's Redshirts. Or that one guy, what's his name... Adams.
> 
> Not necessarily (the news) looking for recommendations, but I'll take those too. I'm really hoping there's a coterie of at least mildly amusing writers camped out in WC looking to talk shop as it were.


This a good topic. I'd like to discover some too.


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## mrain4th (May 19, 2013)

Elle Casey's characters, whether romance, YA, or dystopian are always hilarious.


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## Issy (Aug 25, 2013)

I attended a talk by the chap that runs the crime section of Orion publishing (in the UK) and he said that describing a novel as "comic" was like the kiss of death. I suppose it's because comedy is so subjective. I don't necessarily agree with him, anyway; it was just his opinion. I call my stuff "comedy" so nyer.

It seems to me that a book is a genre first - such as mystery or fantasy - and the _style_ can be described as "comic".

It's interesting to look at different ways writing is made funny; either through the author's own idiosyncratic phrasing, or through the description of amusing events, or something else entirely. Or all of the above. I've been reading Marian Keyes lately and just finished "Anybody Out There" which is basically about death, but her characters are funny and there are some funny events, but mostly it's her light, humorous descriptions; the way she sees ordinary things in an off-key way that makes the reader smile.

Whereas early Pratchett just had me howling with laughter.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

This is probably the genre I find myself closest to. It can be quite a hard sell and there is a resistance to writing which describes itself as 'funny'. Comic writing generally is often allocated fairly low status and some readers only accept humour as a by-product of character.

There is a (slightly dormant) group on Goodreads who exchange recommendations of comic novels.


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## Dee Ernst (Jan 10, 2011)

I write romantic comedy and people seem like my books.  My WIP is a comedy without a romantic element, and I'm curious to see how it's received. I think rom-coms, or any genre-com is an easier sell than a straight comedy.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

My comedic (comic fantasy) stuff has been better received than the serious stuff, both in terms of sales and reviews.  There's definitely a market for it in fantasy--a lot of people seem to appreciate a break from the grimdark that has become so populate of late.  I get the occasional "This wasn't funny at all" review, but that comes with the territory.


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

Isabella Brooke said:


> I attended a talk by the chap that runs the crime section of Orion publishing (in the UK) and he said that describing a novel as "comic" was like the kiss of death.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. My novel, The Ameriad, is a comic novel that treats the founding of America as a satire/parody of the Iliad and the Odyssey. It was a fun novel to write (if not a little difficult), but marketing it has been practically impossible because it doesn't fit into any categories, is treated as a lower level of fiction (because it's comedy), and even though it gets HUGE praise from the very few people who read it, I would have had more success marketing by handing out copies of it on the corner and pretending it was a serious work than a comedy.

It's really burned me on the whole idea of writing comedy works, because what's the point of writing an entire novel that's this hard to write when it's basically completely ignored?


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## Issy (Aug 25, 2013)

Duane Gundrum said:


> I agree wholeheartedly with this. My novel, The Ameriad, is a comic novel that treats the founding of America as a satire/parody of the Iliad and the Odyssey. It was a fun novel to write (if not a little difficult), but marketing it has been practically impossible because it doesn't fit into any categories, is treated as a lower level of fiction (because it's comedy), and even though it gets HUGE praise from the very few people who read it, I would have had more success marketing by handing out copies of it on the corner and pretending it was a serious work than a comedy.
> 
> It's really burned me on the whole idea of writing comedy works, because what's the point of writing an entire novel that's this hard to write when it's basically completely ignored?


Ouch. Could you refer to it by a higher-level category - such as literary fiction, or general fiction, or even (as it's about the founding of America) as historical fiction? Market it as historical and mention it's written in a "light" or "satirical" style. See if that makes any difference.


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

Isabella Brooke said:


> Ouch. Could you refer to it by a higher-level category - such as literary fiction, or general fiction, or even (as it's about the founding of America) as historical fiction? Market it as historical and mention it's written in a "light" or "satirical" style. See if that makes any difference.


I've tried all of those and it remains completely invisible. My other stuff sells normally, but comedy just doesn't get any respect. The sad thing is: It's probably one of my better novels and probably more literary than most of my other works.


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## _Sheila_ (Jan 4, 2011)

My books are very light mysteries that are fun/funny.  I'm often told the reader laughed their way through them.  My primary series is now up to 10 books.  The sales numbers for the 10th book are about the same as the 2nd book - which is a good thing.  My books are very much love it or hate it type books, which shows in the reviews for the first book.  I've sold well over a quarter of a million books without much marketing effort, so I'm comfortable saying that there is interest in the genre.   

Sheila


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Isabella Brooke said:


> I attended a talk by the chap that runs the crime section of Orion publishing (in the UK) and he said that describing a novel as "comic" was like the kiss of death. I suppose it's because comedy is so subjective. I don't necessarily agree with him, anyway; it was just his opinion. I call my stuff "comedy" so nyer.
> 
> It seems to me that a book is a genre first - such as mystery or fantasy - and the _style_ can be described as "comic".
> 
> ...


I term my novel_ But Can You Drink The Water?_ 'humorous fiction' rather than comedy. George Burns once said," A comedian makes you laugh, a humorist makes you think - and then laugh."


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

I write horror comedy and what I've found is that humor is both subjective and polarizing. Person A will nearly have a heart attack reading a book, but Person B will either find it about as scintillating as watching paint dry or be horribly offended.  That being said, I think humor readers are very loyal.  If you can make someone laugh, there's a good chance they'll want to join you on that journey again.


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## zandermarks (May 20, 2013)

I tend to write funny, even when the book itself is not wall-to-wall comedy. But I tend to use it as one of the elements of the storytelling, not the primary objective.

I think there's a market for funny books, but I also think there are some challenges specific to writing and selling books which are positioned as funny.

(I go into this in some detail in a blog series I did on the subject of being funny on paper. If you're inclined, you can see it here: http://writingtoentertain.blogspot.com/2013/05/writing-funny-part-1.html )

But the short version is this: When you position your book as funny, you have set the humor bar pretty high. The reader expects to laugh, and not all readers will find the same things funny. Stand-up comedians have the tactical advantage of audience group dynamics in their favor.

As comic Dwayne Perkins told me in a conversation we blogged:

_"In stand-up I drive my point home and can somewhat control how the audience processes my thoughts. With writing the reader has full autonomy to interpret as they see fit. I'm still getting used to people concluding things I didn't intend them to."_

...so even for Dwayne, who has been doing stand-up professionally for nearly two decades, the experience of being funny on paper poses certain challenges specific to the medium. As a result of this different dynamic, his writing has a different pacing and tone than his stage-work. Onstage, he packs in the laughs-per-minute. In print, he tends to go for a gentler, more reflective approach that I think he might characterize as amusing more than split-your-sides funny.

So there's the expectation issue. The other aspect of it is this: One of the most effective techniques one can use is to bury the joke.

Not everyone will get the same jokes. In a comedy club that's not a huge problem because the audience laughter serves as a cue for others in the room that something funny has just been said. But in a solitary reading, there are no such cues.

What to do? My own approach is to embed the funny stuff into the storytelling in such a way that if someone doesn't find it funny, they simply interpret it as part of the storytelling and still enjoy the story. That's why my reviews range from "hilarious, I laughed out loud" to "not really funny, but I loved the story and character." Either way, whether they get the jokes or not, the book was a successful experience for them. When you label the book as comedy, you are abandoning that second option.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

> I've tried all of those and it remains completely invisible. My other stuff sells normally, but comedy just doesn't get any respect. The sad thing is: It's probably one of my better novels and probably more literary than most of my other works.


If I may be so bold, I think the blurb is hurting you. It starts off with comparison to Monte Python and Douglass Adams. If statements like that aren't quotes from a peer or a reviewer, they tend to be off-putting. The jokes in the blurb are kind of cheesy and don't match what I saw in the sample chapters. Just describe the story. The humor will convey itself.


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## Issy (Aug 25, 2013)

zandermarks said:


> I tend to write funny, even when the book itself is not wall-to-wall comedy. But I tend to use it as one of the elements of the storytelling, not the primary objective.
> 
> But the short version is this: When you position your book as funny, you have set the humor bar pretty high. The reader expects to laugh, and not all readers will find the same things funny. Stand-up comedians have the tactical advantage of audience group dynamics in their favor.


Those things really made sense to me and helped me clarify my thinking. I may even stop calling my romances "romantic comedy".

I also write "comedy" articles for magazines in the UK. I've had 99% great feedback... and one person who felt I was vitriolic and derogatory - about myself! They objected to the way I used myself as the butt of the jokes because it smacked of low self esteem and she found it offensive on my behalf. Odd.


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## zandermarks (May 20, 2013)

Isabella Brooke said:


> I also write "comedy" articles for magazines in the UK. I've had 99% great feedback... and one person who felt I was vitriolic and derogatory - about myself! They objected to the way I used myself as the butt of the jokes because it smacked of low self esteem and she found it offensive on my behalf. Odd.


Ha! There's one in every crowd.

But that's part of the paradox of comedy...it frequently pulls up darker stuff, shines a light on it from a certain angle, and evokes laughter. If one person wants to psychoanalyze you and everyone else is laughing drinks through their noses, I'd say you were "killing it." I'm pretty sure Dwayne or any other stand-up would be perfectly happy with those percentages.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Duane Gundrum said:


> ...but marketing it has been practically impossible because it doesn't fit into any categories, is treated as a lower level of fiction (because it's comedy)...


Amazon used to have a "comic fiction" category. Two of my books used to be in there. I had more sales when they were in that category.

Since Amazon dropped the category, sales have dropped as well.

I don't think it's the label that's a "kiss of death" but rather the lack of discoverability due to the loss of appropriate categories in which to place such books.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Wow. This thing blew up overnight. Awesome. Thanks for jumping in.

(Oh, and Tom Sharpe. Indecent Exposure. Black humor in apartheid South Africa. And Evelyn Waugh. Though*t* he was a she for the longest time. (Damn those 't's are important.))

I think the comedy / humor and comic / humorous distinction is a really fine, thin line. I've always thought of the distinction as one of intent and degree. If the primary intent or focus of the piece is laughs, then it's comedy/comic; if the primary intent or focus of the piece is the genre or story it's attached to, then it's humor/humorous. A good example being Donald Westlake compared to Carl Hiaasen. They both do funny crime novels, Westlake focuses more on the crime, while Hiaasen focuses more on the funny. But that's just me.

Dan, good point about categorization. Clicking around on Amazon I see lots of categories for humor in the Kindle section. Humor & Entertainment. Literature & Fiction › Humor & Satire (plus subcategories). Mystery, Thriller, & Suspense has the Mood & Theme tick boxes that include Humorous and Fun. Romance has Romantic Comedy. Science Fiction has the broad subgenres, then a mildly confusing "genre" category of tick boxes which includes Humor. Same for Fantasy. Or you can Browse All and click the Humor tick box.

For those of you who have published through Amazon, how many categories, genres, subgenres, moods & themes, etc can you select for your work?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Amazon used to have a "comic fiction" category. Two of my books used to be in there. I had more sales when they were in that category.
> 
> Since Amazon dropped the category, sales have dropped as well.
> 
> I don't think it's the label that's a "kiss of death" but rather the lack of discoverability due to the loss of appropriate categories in which to place such books.


I write what I would term 'observational humour' mostly in the dialogue, so that readers will recognize themselves in the various situations. When I added (humorous fiction) after the title_ But Can You Drink The Water?_ I did get a couple more sales (Google search told me that people coming to SA for the World Cup in 2010 had been clicking on my book  ) - yes - you can drink the water.


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

I wrote a comic epic fantasy a while back. It does not sell. Complete waste of time from a money perspective, but immense fun to write. There is a certain amount of life in that category, but it seems like other genres are much more active. As I write in three genres, it'd probably be wiser for me to devote my time to the others.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm very serious about comedy.

Partly because humor is important to me, but also because humor is about suspense and satisfying surprises, which are also very important elements of mystery and suspense.

There is a line between "comedy" as a genre and "comic" as a description of something else.  Sometimes the line isn't drawn at how funny they are, but at the kind of humor.  "Humor" brings to mind humorous essays, as someone mentioned above -- that's a genre, not an adjective.  Whereas the hilarious novels of Donald Westlake are filed under "crime."

I suppose the genre also changes from generation to generation.  I think they are most likely to file Wodehouse under "classic" these days, and at the time it was published it was considered general fiction, but there have certainly been times when it was classified as "humor" (along with James Thurber).

I really think great humor writing that doesn't fit nicely into another niche will often have a slow job finding its audience, but when it does, it can really break out.  Then the author becomes his/her own brand/genre.

Camille


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## Dan Fiorella (Oct 14, 2012)

I just always go for the comedy.  Be it sketches, screenplays or now this ebook things.  I've always been one to look for a good solid plot just so I could use it as a clothesline to hang the jokes and set-pieces on.

I just watched old comedy movies and TV shows.  I wanted to do that.
Catch-22 was an eye opener.  It was assigned to us in high school lit class and I just ate it up.  The fact that something taught in school could be so funny and clever and wacky just made me think that I could do it too.

Plus that I could find it in other places.  Hiassen.  Hitchhiker's guide.  Even Lemony Snicket.  And all of them have to reside in the shadows of a genre and just can't be called "comedy."


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## Jos Van Brussel (Feb 13, 2013)

I've written 5 comic novels, 4 of which don't really belong in any category and consequently don't sell, and one 'cat sleuth' book, which I was surprised to discover is a rather popular subcategory of the 'cozy mystery' genre, and is the only one that sells. So now I have to decide whether I should write more of the cat books (which I didn't really enjoy writing) or more of the others (which I enjoyed immensely). Mh, tough choice.

Just when I was about to give up on comic novels I stumbled across Nick Spalding, who, according to this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25366534) is one of the top self-published writers in the UK and has sold over 400.000 copies of his romantic comedies...


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## Grady Hendrix (Sep 8, 2010)

I've written three books that are all comedies to varying degrees: SATAN LOVES YOU, OCCUPY SPACE, TALES OF THE WHITE STREET SOCIETY.

I'll echo what everyone else has said: after trying multiple categories, different covers, different blurbs, etc. I've realized that while self-publishing seems to work really well for straight-up genre fiction, stuff that falls between genres (funny hard science fiction, comedy urban fantasy, funny horror) has a tougher time finding an audience, especially when you put the comedic aspect front and center. I'm planning to relaunch my titles with new blurbs, new pricing, and a few new titles, but it's been tough. Never say die!

One thing I learned the hard way: there is a HUGE difference on Amazon between the categories:
HUMOR & ENTERTAINMENT 

and

FICTION & LITERATURE > HUMOR & SATIRE FICTION.

I'm pretty sure you want to be in the latter, not the former, for comedy books.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

I have two humorous mystery series and they sell VERY well. Right now I have two books in the Top 100 Mystery list, both at full price. One loss leader (free) in the Top 10. 

Mystery readers, especially those that like humor, are a very dedicated following. You can build up a very loyal readership if you make them laugh.


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

Jana DeLeon said:


> I have two humorous mystery series and they sell VERY well. Right now I have two books in the Top 100 Mystery list, both at full price. One loss leader (free) in the Top 10.
> 
> Mystery readers, especially those that like humor, are a very dedicated following. You can build up a very loyal readership if you make them laugh.


Last year, I went on a major cozy mystery kick. I read mysteries and romantic suspenses when I was a teenager, so I feel I've come full circle.  And you're right; once I hooked in to a couple of the series (Cue Ball Mysteries and the Myrtle Clover Mysteries), I've bought them sight unseen. The Cue Ball ones have the MC as a pool shark (naturally), but she's also a romance author - and she describes her books in progress in an hysterical, completely over the top way.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Isabella Brooke said:


> I attended a talk by the chap that runs the crime section of Orion publishing (in the UK) and he said that describing a novel as "comic" was like the kiss of death. I suppose it's because comedy is so subjective. I don't necessarily agree with him, anyway; it was just his opinion. I call my stuff "comedy" so nyer.
> 
> It seems to me that a book is a genre first - such as mystery or fantasy - and the _style_ can be described as "comic".
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've heard the kiss of death thing too, but it doesn't seem to hold up.

I find myself drawn more toward humor based on outlandish characters and the situations they get themselves into, humorous description, and dialogue rather than nudge nudge wink wink narration. Which is probably why Pratchett never clicked for me. Writers like Wodehouse presented their humor in a dry manner of narration, but described it the funny situations well. That and Pratchett puns. Gods I hate puns.

Three questions. (I had four but forgot it.)

1) What one author or one book would you consider the funniest writer or book you've ever read?

2) Are there any books on the craft of comedy you would recommend?

3) This one seems to have been lost in the shuffle, but: How many separate genres, moods, themes, etc can you list your book under when publishing through Amazon?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> 1) What one author or one book would you consider the funniest writer or book you've ever read?


I love Derec Longden's _The Cat Who Came in From the Cold_. Anyone who can anthropomorphize a sultana has to be a brilliant writer  But it's not fiction.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Almost all my fiction thus far is satire - two novels, a novella, and a handful of shorts. While reviews have been mostly favourable, sales haven't been anything to write home about. Published under 'Eric Feka' and some are free (on Smashwords - only one is free on Amazon and only in the US).

They aren't much of a source of money but they provide some serious satisfaction, especially when one gets a good review .

My favourite comic author is Terry Pratchett by a long way, but I have a soft spot for Tome Sharpe, Douglas Adams, and Robert Rankin. My favourite comic novel is _The Light Fantastic_, primarily because of silicon chunk technology, but I also loved everything by Sir Terry until _The Last Continent_. _Armageddon: The Musical _ is a close second because of The Preslyad.

As for the best 'How To' book? I reckon read everything by Pratchett, Sharpe, Rankin and Douglas once for the laughs, and then once again for the craft.

Edit: Oops, forgot I wrote a spec fiction short and added favourite bits


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> 3) This one seems to have been lost in the shuffle, but: How many separate genres, moods, themes, etc can you list your book under when publishing through Amazon?


Two.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


Yep. The world is full of the ridiculous and it's a hell of a lot of fun putting it down on paper the screen.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

vrabinec said:


> Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


I'd have to say that's a huge yes. It's like saying someone's writing a book and it just accidentally gets set 5000 years in the future, or it just happens to come out as a murder mystery. We wouldn't have people famous for being humorists or comic novelists without them intentionally trying to write humor. Same with film. Most times the writer and production crew don't start with a serious movie then randomly decide, nah, let's do a comedy. Except Mars Attacks. But that's different.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I'd have to say that's a huge yes. It's like saying someone's writing a book and it just accidentally gets set 5000 years in the future, or it just happens to come out as a murder mystery. We wouldn't have people famous for being humorists or comic novelists without them intentionally trying to write humor. Same with film. Most times the writer and production crew don't start with a serious movie then randomly decide, nah, let's do a comedy. Except Mars Attacks. But that's different.


Yeah, that makes sense. Just a different world. Do you comedy guys think of silly plots first? Or do you kinda have a go-to goofy guy or gal that you set down somewhere and see what happens?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> As for the best 'How To' book? I reckon read everything by Pratchett, Sharpe, Rankin and Douglas once for the laughs, and then once again for the craft.


Yeah. I've been doing this as well. A few more authors though, like Wodehouse, Christopher Moore, and Tom Holt. It's one of those things though that I like to do, reading non-fiction about writing. I've gathered a few but wondered if anyone else had done this and if it helped very much at all.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

vrabinec said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. Just a different world. Do you comedy guys think of silly plots first? Or do you kinda have a go-to goofy guy or gal that you set down somewhere and see what happens?


Honest but not really helpful: It depends.

It's the same as asking a writer where they get their ideas from. Only funny. You see some poor slob trip and fall, or read some news story about Florida Man, or read some idiot crook getting caught in the most absurd way and presto, it's grist for the mill. Some have series characters they use and can simply match them up with a straight man (comic term, not sexual preference), and let things fly. For example, you put a tattooed-up skinhead in a cell with a black guy... hilarity ensues. Lock a claustrophobic in an elevator. Or the tired trope of an out of work inept father put in charge of rowdy kids.

Good comic stories have a throughline just like more serious works, instead of exploiting the gap between expectation and reality to evoke drama, humorists use that gap to evoke laughs. No plot, no story. Goes for drama or comedy.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


In the sense of having a series in which all the books are humorous - yes... but as to whether the humour's _planned_ as such... no, not really. 'Must have something amusing happen here'... no. Just happens with specific characters and me as writer. But I do write 'humour' compared to comedy.

When it comes to the reader's sense of humour - definitely subjective, and I think that books in the 'Humor' and 'Comedy' sections tend more often toward love-or-hate reactions from readers. It can be a downer to buy a book that reviews call 'hilarious' but leaves you cold.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

vrabinec said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. Just a different world. Do you comedy guys think of silly plots first? Or do you kinda have a go-to goofy guy or gal that you set down somewhere and see what happens?


Depends. On one novel, I hit roadblocks when coming to the boring parts. There are things that have to happen to move the plot along and sometimes those bits are boring and I figured that if I was bored writing them, readers would be bored reading them. The only solution--other than shoving the novel in a drawer and waiting years and years until I was so completely bored that writing the boring bits would have been less boring than the alternatives--was to sit down and think, _what is the most ridiculous thing that could happen right now?_ Then, I would work that into what would otherwise be a mind-numbingly boring, but necessary, scene.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

nomesque said:


> In the sense of having a series in which all the books are humorous - yes... but as to whether the humour's _planned_ as such... no, not really. 'Must have something amusing happen here'... no. Just happens with specific characters and me as writer. But I do write 'humour' compared to comedy.


How do you distinguish between comedy and humor? Or, how do you mean that you 'write humor compared to comedy'? Do you simply mean degree, say include some humor but not go slapstick?



> When it comes to the reader's sense of humour - definitely subjective, and I think that books in the 'Humor' and 'Comedy' sections tend more often toward love-or-hate reactions from readers. It can be a downer to buy a book that reviews call 'hilarious' but leaves you cold.


In my utterly subjective experience, this happens more often with what I'd say are over-written funny books. In P.G. Wodehouse's Jeeves stories for example, the humor is underscored, nestled securely in Bertie's point of view and him being completely oblivious. If the same two characters were written in a slapstick, over-the-top, aren't I funny dear reader style they wouldn't have worked. It's "Carry On, Jeeves" not "Carry On... Jeeves", if you take my meaning (and reference).


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

Wingman is a comedic novella. Extreme Unction is a mystery but it has the same kind of humor as Evonovich or Rex Stout.


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

Jos Van Brussel said:


> Just when I was about to give up on comic novels I stumbled across Nick Spalding, who, according to this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25366534) is one of the top self-published writers in the UK and has sold over 400.000 copies of his romantic comedies...


I suspect that one of the reasons why Spalding sells so well is his inclusion of sex. I've dipped into several of his books and he seems to lean more on that than on humor.

One of the funniest writers I've read, other than Wodehouse, is Richard Powell. He was an American humorist from the last century, probably most notable for Don Quixote USA (Woody Allen ripped him off in Bananas), as well as Pioneer Go Home.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


I agree. But my book (But Can You Drink The Water?) actually started out as a 13 part sitcom that was never taken up. I didn't want to waste all the time I'd put into the situations and characters, so I turned it into a novel. Got a great PW review through ABNA 2010, which gave me the confidence to self-publish with KDP. It made it to the movers and shakers on Twitter and went as high as #20 in the bestsellers list in the UK. I was selling 3000 per month in 2011, but then sales tapered off and I've been trying to get them back ever since


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## Jos Van Brussel (Feb 13, 2013)

Christopher Bunn said:


> I suspect that one of the reasons why Spalding sells so well is his inclusion of sex. I've dipped into several of his books and he seems to lean more on that than on humor.


I had that impression as well. Blue Christmas Balls and all that. Not really my thing, but they seem to sell. Last year I came across another writer who had some success with his comic books. Don't remember the name, but they were all about anal sex apparently. Wodehouse would have had a fit! In his novels couples didn't even kiss. Ah well, I guess the times, they are a-changin'.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Hello everyone, a bit late to the party here. I write humorous science fiction fantasy, with an element of... Is it cosy romance when there's no out and out sex? Most of the people who've read my books love them. Unfortunately most people would rather not read my books. I have to persuade them, pretty much at gunpoint, to actually make a start. After calling mine sci-fi and fantasy... And bombing I've just changed them all back to fantasy first and humour second. So yes, in answer to whoever asked. I have great fun writing them but mine don't sell either.

On the who's funny question; I love Wodehouse, Pratchett, Holt and Adams. Also enjoy Fforde, the poetry of Spike Milligan especially, Hilaire Belloc and I think 1066 and all that by Sellers and Yeatman is pure genius... And the Molesworth books. 

Nick Spalding was very clever about the way he made his name. He did so by doing silly challenges. He did a book in 24 hours; Life With No Breaks. If I remember rightly he also did one on a trans-Atlantic flight. He was VERY active on social media - practically omnipresent on the major sites lord knows how he did it. He had built up a big following on Authonomy in about 2009 when I was knocking around on there too. Once he'd established himself with an angle, and a following he started writing pukka fiction and I think trad picked up his second book. 

As for writing funny. I'm not sure it's something you can learn. I could almost call it an affliction. I can't write anything other than funny so the trick is to make it look deliberate.

Cheers

MTM


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## Nicholas Andrews (Sep 8, 2011)

My Adventurers series (The Adventure Tournament and Babyface Fire in my sig) is comic fantasy. I can't say I've found much of an audience for it yet, but what I have written so far has been well received. The Adventure Tournament was the first novel I published over two years ago, and out of the handful of reviews, it has yet to receive a bad one in the US. And this is after doing many free runs, which tend to breed bad reviews. 

I'm not really a comedian. I haven't studied the art of it or anything. When writing in that series, I just tend to come up with out-there ideas for the world and things that inhabit it. It may be whacky, but not necessarily inherently humorous. My humor usually tends to come from how the characters interact with these whacky ideas, and each other.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

Absolutely, when I sit down to write I intend to be funny. That's what's made me. If I'm not funny, people will stop buying my books. That being said, I have zero idea what I'm going to write before I do it. I am 100% panster. I come up with an inciting incident and the story evolves as I write. I don't have any idea of who the bad guy is or his reasoning. I have no idea of upcoming scenes. It's all completely organic.

To me, writing humor, especially as a pantster, is a leap of faith. You have to believe when you sit down at the computer that the story will come and it will be funny.

As for technique books, I can't recommend any because I've never read any. Sometimes, I get asked to do workshops on writing humor and I always decline. I believe people are either funny or not. You either have an absurd way of looking at things or you don't. I don't think that can be taught.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

I did actually do stand up for a while but I think that, on the whole, I'm much funnier sitting down.


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## lynnfromthesouth (Jun 21, 2012)

There is quite a bit of humor in my books, even more so on my other pen name (which is women's fiction). I don't really like books that don't have any humor in them at all. For example, I got very tired of the very emotional, dystopian themes of YA lately. I like a balance, and if I don't find a balance, I tend to not be a fan. That being said, I don't think I have the skill to be a comedic author. However, I marked down some of the books mentioned in this thread.

1) What one author or one book would you consider the funniest writer or book you've ever read?

I love Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett are both awesome, but I think my vote would go to Gail Carriger. Sometimes I have to reread Adams and Pratchett to get the jokes.

2) Are there any books on the craft of comedy you would recommend?

I've found The Comic Toolbox useful, though I've actually wanted to study comedy a little bit more.

3) This one seems to have been lost in the shuffle, but: How many separate genres, moods, themes, etc can you list your book under when publishing through Amazon?

Two, but Amazon may add you to more. My books are in five.


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## Jos Van Brussel (Feb 13, 2013)

Jana DeLeon said:


> I have zero idea what I'm going to write before I do it. I am 100% panster.


I have the same experience. I've tried outlining many times (because all the 'how to write' books insist that's the way to go) but I've never been able to turn my outlines into a novel. I recently spent a month outlining a thriller, because I figured thrillers sell so I should try writing one, but when it came time to actually start writing, every scene I wrote came out as comedy, which kinda spoiled the suspense I was going for. It's as if my left hand (outlining) doesn't know what my right hand (writing) is doing, or something along those lines.

The only book on humor writing I've read was one that analyzed Wodehouse's writing style. It's more a linguistic analysis, though, but interesting nonetheless: The Comic Style of PG Wodehouse (Robert A. Hall). It's out of print, unfortunately. And there's Janet Evanovich's How I Write, which I also enjoyed. Not really about humor writing, but it's pretty funny and has some good advice on writing in general. But I agree that comic writing is probably not something you can learn from a book, but is more of a personality thing.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Thanks for the answers and recs. Even more books to read!

I would agree and disagree a bit with learning to write funny. I'd say you can't really learn to have a comic outlook, ie how you see the world and react to it, but if you do have a comic slant on the world, you certainly can learn how to exploit that and make the most of it. Learning comic techniques or learning the name typically applied to some technique or trope.


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

Of course it's tacky to claim you've written one helluva comedy novel, but in my case it's true. Here's why: I enjoyed writing every minute of it!
In doing so I fully realized I would never be able to replicate the humor and comedy I inserted in Family Thang. There's just no way I could ever achieve that level of comedic insight again. Honestly, it was as if the comic god touched me on the shoulder and said get with it--and I've the slightest idea how I did it. Not all readers enjoy my style of comedy, but many of those who do often report laughing so hard they wake up spouses. Yes, it's that funny. I only wish I could do it again.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> How do you distinguish between comedy and humor? Or, how do you mean that you 'write humor compared to comedy'? Do you simply mean degree, say include some humor but not go slapstick?


I think the difference in my head is that humour happens while a story unfolds, comedy causes a story to unfold in a funny way. My DEAD(ish) books don't really have funny story lines. Someone dies, generally through foul play, and a mystery has to be solved. I don't tend to write them with the thought, "what amusing thing can happen next?" but instead, the characters react amusingly while serious stuff happens. *shrug* I don't know. I didn't set out to write funny stuff, it just happened. 



Fishbowl Helmet said:


> In my utterly subjective experience, this happens more often with what I'd say are over-written funny books. In P.G. Wodehouse's Jeeves stories for example, the humor is underscored, nestled securely in Bertie's point of view and him being completely oblivious. If the same two characters were written in a slapstick, over-the-top, aren't I funny dear reader style they wouldn't have worked. It's "Carry On, Jeeves" not "Carry On... Jeeves", if you take my meaning (and reference).


Hehe... yes, I get the reference there.  I don't think the _type_ of humour employed matters as much as whether it's the sole point of the book. Take out the funny stuff - do you still have a vaguely-readable story? If yes, I'd count it as humour. If no, comedy. Now whether those are in any way official or standard definitions, that's a whole 'nother ball game...


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Funniest writer - probably Douglas Adams. I love Pratchett too, but even re-reading Adams for the fiftieth time can still make me laugh out loud. There's something about the way his humour sneaks up and smacks you across the back of the head.  I have a soft spot for Bill Bryson, too.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

nomesque said:


> I think the difference in my head is that humour happens while a story unfolds, comedy causes a story to unfold in a funny way. My DEAD(ish) books don't really have funny story lines. Someone dies, generally through foul play, and a mystery has to be solved. I don't tend to write them with the thought, "what amusing thing can happen next?" but instead, the characters react amusingly while serious stuff happens. *shrug* I don't know. I didn't set out to write funny stuff, it just happened.


That's exactly how I'd say I do it. Sure my characters have silly names, Corporal Punischment, General Moteurs (first name Ford) etc but mostly it's funny because of the way they react and behave.

And I forgot Bill Bryson... I love his stuff.


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## Mike_Author (Oct 19, 2013)

My two humorous books sell a fraction of my other books so I have put any ideas of further comedic novels on the backburner.  It's my great dream that suddenly people start buying humorous novels like they buy erotica.  Won't happen though.  As someone already pointed out, humor is so subjective that humorous books are difficult to market unless you are an established comedian.


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## dkw (Sep 20, 2013)

As far as recommendations go, I'm still working my way through the top 10 satire (starting with free on my budget/reading addiction): http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Kindle-Store-Satire-Fiction/zgbs/digital-text/7588842011/ref=zg_bs_fvp_p_f_7588842011?_encoding=UTF8&tf=1

And I've found Small World, Fat Vampire, and Greegs and Ladders to be good. It looks like jhendereson's Family Thang is up there too...working my way to it!

Also check out "Off Course": http://www.amazon.com/Off-Course-Simon-Haynes-ebook/dp/B0067C65AY/ref=sr_1_8?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1390768772&sr=1-8&keywords=simon+haynes
and The Adventures of Whatley Tupper, an adult choose-your-own-adventure: http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Whatley-Tupper-Rudolf-Kerkhoven-ebook/dp/B00408ASO6/ref=cm_pdp_rev_itm_title_2
and I, Minion http://www.amazon.com/I-Minion-The-Chronicles-ebook/dp/B00CHYQ2VS/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

My comedy series (Transcripts; in signature) sells almost an order of magnitude more than my more serious stuff, which is to say, still not well.  Pratchett is in the also-boughts though (especially noticeable for the sequel, Heaven: The Beta-test), so I sleep soundly at night.


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## Windvein (Sep 26, 2012)

I'd class Unicorn Bait as a romantic comic fantasy, but usually I can only use two of those genres when classifying it so stick with romantic fantasy because I think romance sells better. It was perma-free for the longest time, and generated a lot of positive reviews. Since going back to paid, sales haven't been great. It stays in the low 6-digits in rank usually. I'm writing a sequel to it because there seems to be some interest in it, but I'm not expecting to hit any Amazon category best seller lists.

My YA series has a lot of humor in it as well. I think that has helped it win readers over, but it's also paranormal fantasy, which still has a pretty large fanbase. I do think the humor in the books adds to the series' appeal and distinguishes it slightly from others, and when I accidentally glanced at my reviews for my latest book in that series (I generally try to avoid them entirely, the star rating is enough), I saw a reviewer had detracted a star because there wasn't as much humor in the last book, which is true and is making me reconsider whether I should consciously try to put humor in the next novel. 

I enjoy putting humor in my stories, but I've never strived for it. I may not have enough books under my belt yet to be able to turn the humor on at will, and I worry a little about readers expecting humor all the time. I'm working on some fantasies that are much more serious, and worry that readers will drift away because I'm not making them chuckle. 

(BTW, I can't help rec'ing A. Lee Martinez. He isn't indie, but if you like Christopher Moore, you should really check him out. )


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Yeah, I've enjoyed A. Lee Martinez. Has anyone mentioned Jasper Fforde yet? I forget.

Here are a few links to the so-called best of the best funny books, not sure but it's a start.

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/artattack/2012/03/top_10_funniest_novels_ever_wr.php

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/30-funniest-books-ever

How many of these have people read?


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Yeah, I've enjoyed A. Lee Martinez. Has anyone mentioned Jasper Fforde yet? I forget.
> 
> Here are a few links to the so-called best of the best funny books, not sure but it's a start.
> 
> ...


I love Fforde. I'll have to go and look at those lists.


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## LinaG (Jun 18, 2012)

I hear you on the comedy thing. It's kind of a blessing and a curse. It can be fun to write, a lot of fun. Nothing better than sitting at the keyboard, giggling to yourself. Still, I have tried to write serious stuff. I was going to do an accessible literary fiction (aka Oprah) book. Heroine in her early 30's, her mother crazy or maybe just pretending. I was going to hang all the angst etc. in the context of a murder. I seem to remember a sentence along the lines of "insanity was her art&#8230;" Was the mother really mad? The drama! The self examination!

And then they started talking. As it turns out the mother lives with her a sister and they'd found a severed thumb on their kitchen floor. ("When I stepped on it, it positively _squirted!_ But it was dark. Things always sound louder in the dark&#8230;") There were tacos. There were severed heads. (OK, just the one. Luckily it was frozen. I mean, who wants to carry around a mushy head in their purse?) Then there's the subplot about the Mob Princess's missing husbands... Pantsing my way through it tortured me so badly I can't think about it without my eyes bleeding. I have no idea how it would sell or how I would begin to market it. So it sits in a computer file.

It would be easier, cocktail party wise, to write the "madness is her art" book. Sometimes I just want to fib about shades of madness and move on.

Currently I'm working on a series of comic mystery novellas, which will probably sell as well as used gum. The tagline for the current one is "One thing is certain: the hams are gonna fly."

Somebody just shoot me.

Also-- as to comic writing teaching materials: Oscar Wilde my friends. It's right there in the title: The Importance of Being Earnest. As long as your characters think they are in the right and act earnestly, you can do anything with them. Maybe even track down counterfeit ham at a karaoke bar. Maybe.

Li


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Well, crap.

http://io9.com/the-creator-of-samurai-cat-passes-away-1514823154

Mark E. Rogers. Another writer/artist I would recommend, unfortunately now, it's a posthumous rec. The Samurai Cat novels are wonderful parodies.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

LinaG said:


> I hear you on the comedy thing. It's kind of a blessing and a curse. It can be fun to write, a lot of fun. Nothing better than sitting at the keyboard, giggling to yourself. Still, I have tried to write serious stuff. I was going to do an accessible literary fiction (aka Oprah) book. Heroine in her early 30's, her mother crazy or maybe just pretending. I was going to hang all the angst etc. in the context of a murder. I seem to remember a sentence along the lines of "insanity was her art&#8230;" Was the mother really mad? The drama! The self examination!
> 
> And then they started talking. As it turns out the mother lives with her a sister and they'd found a severed thumb on their kitchen floor. ("When I stepped on it, it positively _squirted!_ But it was dark. Things always sound louder in the dark&#8230;") There were tacos. There were severed heads. (OK, just the one. Luckily it was frozen. I mean, who wants to carry around a mushy head in their purse?) Then there's the subplot about the Mob Princess's missing husbands... Pantsing my way through it tortured me so badly I can't think about it without my eyes bleeding. I have no idea how it would sell or how I would begin to market it. So it sits in a computer file.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. Every time I try to write something straight, it just goes sideways or sucks. Hell, my funny stuff probably sucks too, but at least it's fun to write and elicits a few smiles and giggles from the readers.


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## colegrove (Dec 6, 2012)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Yeah, I've enjoyed A. Lee Martinez. Has anyone mentioned Jasper Fforde yet? I forget.
> 
> Here are a few links to the so-called best of the best funny books, not sure but it's a start.
> 
> ...


Some of those are okay. Spike Milligan is fantastic, so is David Mitchell. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned "I, Partridge." Maybe I missed that.










Link

Humor is subjective, but so is everything else in life. Some people are put off by irony or subtle humor, and need it spelled out in block letters on the side of a building. Others will be put off by such a direct approach.


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## Cora Jane Snow (Dec 19, 2013)

Jos Van Brussel said:


> I've written 5 comic novels, 4 of which don't really belong in any category and consequently don't sell, and one 'cat sleuth' book, which I was surprised to discover is a rather popular subcategory of the 'cozy mystery' genre, and is the only one that sells. So now I have to decide whether I should write more of the cat books (which I didn't really enjoy writing) or more of the others (which I enjoyed immensely). Mh, tough choice.


I wish there was a category of poodle mysteries  I'm a dog person...


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## Rich Rojas (Jan 27, 2014)

I inject humor into just about everything I write, but I wouldn't classify anything I've published thus far as a comedic work. Irony, tragedy, the whole Greek comedy thing, all have an element of humor at their core. Humans just have a way of screwing things up. And a lot of times, it's funny even though things sometimes turn out tragically. My all time favorite purveyor of literary humor is Charles Dickens. I also laughed my ass off in parts of Moby-Dick. I don't think I could continue writing if I couldn't have some fun at my characters' expense.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Y'know, nothing breaks the mood quite like a joke in the middle of an erotica short. *face-palm*


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## sighdone (Feb 4, 2011)

All of my favourite writers use humour. It's why I became a professional comedian and comedy writer too. I have found that selling comedy novels is harder than other genres though.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

sighdone said:


> All of my favourite writers use humour. It's why I became a professional comedian and comedy writer too. I have found that selling comedy novels is harder than other genres though.


My humorous novel _But Can You Drink the Water?_ has sold more than any of my other novels. In its heyday of early 2011 it was selling 3000 per month (now down to about 10 ) . The humour relies mostly on the dialogue, and what I call 'observational humour'.


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## zzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2011)

I can't be funny on purpose. I'm a sharp wit in real life when I have someone else to riff with, but I can't just be funny at people. This comes across a bit in my fiction with humorous dialog and banter, but that's it.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

sighdone said:


> All of my favourite writers use humour. It's why I became a professional comedian and comedy writer too. I have found that selling comedy novels is harder than other genres though.


Yeah, standup comedians and comedy films are what started me, I was also a book nerd so I eventually combined the two and started tracking down humorous fiction. So you a road comic? Don't know if I could do standup, too much traveling around.

Nice covers btw, Tom Sharpe and Tom Holt influence? If I could find a cheap cartoonist I'd probably go with Tom Holt and Christopher Moore style covers.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

If you want funny titles you should look at Gordon Kirkland.

"When my mind wanders it brings back souvenirs" 
"My Slice of Life is Full of Gristle"

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_15?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=gordon+kirkland&sprefix=Gordon+Kirkland%2Cdigital-text%2C268


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> If you want funny titles you should look at Gordon Kirkland.
> 
> "When my mind wanders it brings back souvenirs"
> "My Slice of Life is Full of Gristle"
> ...


Titles are very important. Some of my favorites are Christopher Moore's books. Bloodsucking Fiends. You Suck. Bite Me. Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove. Island of the Sequined Love Nun. Stupidest Angel. Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

And Christohper Moore is doing an AMA (Ask Me Anything) thread over on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1xk9jz/iama_hi_im_author_christopher_moore_ama_ask_me/


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> There's definitely a market for it in fantasy--a lot of people seem to appreciate a break from the grimdark that has become so populate of late.


Well, here's hoping!


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

Squidbillies, the cartoon, works on a comedy level that's really hard to figure. The art and background layouts are rather pedestrian. The characters look crude. Yet it is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious! Of course comedy is subjective, but if it works it works, meaning it makes some people laugh out loud. Duck Dynasty, the reality show, demonstrates good comedy. It has to be scripted; the comedy is too hilarious. The plus side to any comedy that makes you smile or laugh is you'll almost never forget it. There are scenes in A Confederacy of Dunces, the most hilarious novel ever written, that I'll take to the grave.


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## Lindy Moone (Oct 19, 2012)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Amazon used to have a "comic fiction" category. Two of my books used to be in there. I had more sales when they were in that category.
> 
> Since Amazon dropped the category, sales have dropped as well.
> 
> I don't think it's the label that's a "kiss of death" but rather the lack of discoverability due to the loss of appropriate categories in which to place such books.


Dan's Lame Novel is the funniest thing I've read in ages -- and that includes best-sellers. We need to get Dan discovered. If I knew how to do it for my own humorously in(s)ane mystery, I would share the secret.

Is there a way to lobby Amazon to get humor back as a category? It's ridiculous that they axed it, since that probably resulted in fewer sales across the comic spectrum -- which meant fewer profits for them.

It's hard to find the funny...


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm currently working on a 15-18K short story comedy based on a life event I recently had. One that caused me to groan every hour, each living day, for weeks until it was resolved. The main difference is my real encounter was laden with expletives and wanting to break things, but I'm making it PG and very funny.


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## philstern (Mar 14, 2011)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Amazon used to have a "comic fiction" category. Two of my books used to be in there. I had more sales when they were in that category.
> 
> Since Amazon dropped the category, sales have dropped as well.
> 
> I don't think it's the label that's a "kiss of death" but rather the lack of discoverability due to the loss of appropriate categories in which to place such books.


That's exactly what happened to me with The Bull Years. It is very hard to promote such books. Now I don't promote it as "funny" or comic but many reviews say its funny. Which makes sense as its byproduct funny.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Have any of you funny types read this old bit from the Dilbert Blog?

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/writing-funny.html


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## Mark Feggeler (Feb 7, 2011)

AA2014 said:


> I'm currently working on a 15-18K short story comedy based on a life event I recently had. One that caused me to groan every hour, each living day, for weeks until it was resolved. The main difference is my real encounter was laden with expletives and wanting to break things, but I'm making it PG and very funny.


Don't stint on the expletives. Few things are funnier than a well placed expletive. (Or fart jokes.)


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

And on the comic fantasy side of things the response is "...like Terry Pratchett?"

Not sure where I heard it but the admonition that "If the narrator tells the jokes, it's comedy; if the characters tell the jokes, it's humorous." Not sure I'd agree with that, but whatever. Sorry, it's late and my head's swimming.

I gotta say my all-time favorite comic novel is still a hard toss up between Tom Holt's Expecting Someone Taller and Tom Sharpe's Indecent Exposure. Great books and great laughs, but for entirely different reasons.

And congrats on the sequel, Steven. Can't wait to see it. You made quite a splash with the first one.


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## moirakatson (Jan 11, 2014)

I enjoyed Connie Willis's SciFi, and have always found it to be deeply amusing. Diana Wynne Jones would be another, although more to the fantasy side of things.

Christopher Moore's _Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff_ made me laugh so hard I cried. I suppose some people might not find the concept amusing, though, so if playing around with the story of Jesus doesn't appeal to you, be warned.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Mark Feggeler said:


> Don't stint on the expletives. Few things are funnier than a well placed expletive. (Or fart jokes.)


Really? I assumed using them would get returns and frowny-face reviewers. The same ones, upon inspect of their review history, who buy toilet humor books... I'm tired at the moment so I think I understand what you're saying about a well-placed expletive. Comedic relief, right? The thing is when I write a few pages at a time, I can't help but make my character into an amalgam of Alan Harper and myself, except I'm not a cheap man living with my brother. LOL


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Not sure where I heard it but the admonition that "If the narrator tells the jokes, it's comedy; if the characters tell the jokes, it's humorous." Not sure I'd agree with that, but whatever. Sorry, it's late and my head's swimming.


George Burns said: "A comedian makes you laugh. A humorist makes you think - and then laugh." 

I like to inject humour into most of my books, usually in the form of dialogue. (I think that stems from spending my school and college years in and around Liverpool. Humour is a way of life in Liverpool )


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## Nicholas Andrews (Sep 8, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Not sure where I heard it but the admonition that "If the narrator tells the jokes, it's comedy; if the characters tell the jokes, it's humorous." Not sure I'd agree with that, but whatever. Sorry, it's late and my head's swimming.


What do you call it when the narrator AND the characters tell the jokes?


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## J. R. Blaisy (Feb 4, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> George Burns said: "A comedian makes you laugh. A humorist makes you think - and then laugh."


Yes, and to quote Robert McKee from memory, in his Classic Story Structure course, on comedy writers: 'These guys are the real subversives.' I think because humour questions society and the status quo in a more radical way than other forms.

The roots of satire, certainly, are in anger and frustration -- however controlled the end result. As Dylan sings, 'People are crazy, times are strange.'

Writing humorously definitely seems to be something that is 'in' one. A theatre director who also wrote told me many years ago that he considered himself a serious sort of person but that for some reason everything he wrote turned out as comedy. Everything I write tends to go that way too, and I'm not a laugh a minute.

The trick seems to be not to try too hard to be funny -- although actually making the humour work is as technical as gag-writing. The late British comedy scriptwriter Frank Muir said that it wasn't really possible to write comedy. All you could do is is write something that, _viewed in a certain way_, some people might find funny.

Writing my book, I resolutely tried to avoided the pitfalls (for me) of parody and whimsy, and focused on content, story, content, story... And took out the jokes, unless legitimately made by the characters.

Marketing seems tricky to say the least. Even the word 'humorous' sounds pretty deathly. Everyone has probably had the experience of getting through a 'hilarious' book they found totally unfunny -- and is not eager to repeat it. Julie defined my book as dark comedy, but of course there's no such Amazon category. But thanks to the advice of people on KB I now think I might be able to select the right categories and keywords. Then, if I can get the blurb right too, and perhaps advertise a bit, I might get a sale that isn't to F&F. I don't ask much. Just one would be nice.


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## Grady Hendrix (Sep 8, 2010)

I had sort of thought funny writing was dead on Amazon, so it's nice to see so many people posting. I'm curious, when you guys choose categories, do you tend to go with Humorous, or do you put them in their genre-appropriate categories and let your covers indicate that the books are funny?


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

I put comic fantasy in the key words and catalogue mine under science fiction and fantasy. They're also good for YA but there aren't enough categories for my mashed up stuff.

Agree about not trying too hard. I'm one of those people who's funny whether they want to be or not so the trick is just to make it look deliberate.

Cheers

MTM


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## JPMorgan (Mar 24, 2014)

When I wrote L&L I had real trouble with figuring out what category to put it in. I set out to write a fairly serious romantic thriller but I'm too snarky to get away with that and so it really is loaded with humour.

I settled on romantic comedy. It feels at time satire (Kind of Bridget Jones meets James Bond meets Austin Powers) so its been really hard to try and figure out what readership its aimed at since everyone who beta-ready agreed it was such a quirky mix of thriller staples, romantic story and odd humour.

Time will tell if its a good mix for the market or not. I've done no marketing and its sold 3 copies this week since launch so hopefully there are enough people with odd humour who 'get' the in jokes and don't take it at all seriously.

The problem is now my second novel is still loaded with black humour but is also very dark and violent in places.

I dunno, i guess I'm probably the best example of self-publishing since I tend to write oddball stories that no publisher not high on crystal meth would want to publish lol 

edit to add: the hardest thing was trying to write the blurb. I know what the story is all about but trying to get it across is a challenge sometimes.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Grady Hendrix said:


> I had sort of thought funny writing was dead on Amazon, so it's nice to see so many people posting. I'm curious, when you guys choose categories, do you tend to go with Humorous, or do you put them in their genre-appropriate categories and let your covers indicate that the books are funny?


When I first published _But Can You Drink The Water?_ in 2010 it went to No 20 on the UK bestseller list. Sales have gradually dwindled since then. I have revived it slightly by:

A) Adding a quote from the cover (Droll, witty and utterly British) in my Amazon title. This is a quote from the Publisher's Weekly reviewer's ABNA report.

B) Taking note of what Bookbub said about the key words that received the most clicks and then re-writing the blurb. I'm usually against using 'hilarious' to describe my books as I feel it's up to the reader to decide what they think is hilarious, but I thought I'd give it a go after reading the Bookbub report. 

http://unbound.bookbub.com/post/71990474519/5-test-results-to-help-you-market-your-ebook


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

At the moment, I'm still using terms like 'comedy' and 'humour' in my keywords but I'm considering taking them out, not because they don't describe an element of what I write but because I do find they alienate certain readers. People who've tried my stuff usually like it. The problem I have is that I'm trying to write books that don't fit narrow generic categories.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

I write police procedurals in series and every one has a funny sub-plot and a fair amount of humorous dialogue in the main plot. I sell enough to get by and write full-time, but I wouldn't say my sales are likely to set the world on fire. But I enjoy writing them and the dialogue between my characters comes so naturally, that I would find it difficult to turn off that element.

I tried to write serious in my second series, but my protagonist's drug-taking, old hippie parents insisted on making an appearance!

Maybe I should have another go and strip out my funny bone?!


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


Yes here, too. I deliberately set out to write a main character in my police procedurals who was the opposite of the norm: my character isn't the usual educated, middle-class detective that takes the lead in many British crime novels. I'm neither of those things myself, so it felt more natural to write about a character from my own milieu. I spiced his background up a bit and gave him a family who were not averse to a little light illegality. I get comments in reviews that indicate most readers enjoy the humour and others where it's entirely passed the reader by or else they didn't find my humour humorous.

But most of the policemen and women I've ever known have been Ordinary Joes like myself. I remember reading in one book of police memoirs that, in the seventies (in the UK) at least, if you could walk and talk you were in!

And in spite of the all-invasive Political Correctness and other po-faced dreariness, I understand the Canteen Cowboys, although perhaps driven underground, are still alive and kicking, as is the black humour that helps police officers deal with some of the appalling things they witness.


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## Grady Hendrix (Sep 8, 2010)

I find that saying a book is funny keeps readers away. Which is weird because Humorous Fiction is a category I feel is so under-served. But then I realize it's not so weird because the second someone describes THEIR book as funny I just tune out, and I never browse the Humor category at bookstores or on Amazon.

TLR - I am my own worst customer.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

nomesque said:


> Funniest writer - probably Douglas Adams. I love Pratchett too, but even re-reading Adams for the fiftieth time can still make me laugh out loud. There's something about the way his humour sneaks up and smacks you across the back of the head.  I have a soft spot for Bill Bryson, too.


God, yes, I love Bill Bryson, too. That man is so witty. I totally loved his Notes From a Small Island about us here in the UK. Laugh? I needed an emergency knicker change.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Cora Jane Snow said:


> I wish there was a category of poodle mysteries  I'm a dog person...


Lol! This raised a smile. Just thought I'd let you know.


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## Joseph J Bailey (Jun 28, 2013)

I wrote my four comedic novellas out of shear enjoyment. They allowed me to revisit and add depth to a world I created and wanted to spend more time in after my primary work was complete. I also felt the format and subject matter were rather unique and somewhat inventive.

I did not expect for the novellas to sell (and they have not although I could do more to promote them). Going in, I knew, for instance, that the market for people actively looking for a wizard's guide to wizardry that made fun of wizards and other fantasy tropes was rather small (although the fantasy genre and fantasy humor genre can have quite a bit of range and depth of interest).

I have tried playing with keywords, mainly within the fiction-> fantasy and fiction-> humor categories, using terms like satire, comedy, parody, and trope along with other fantasy terms like rpg, mmo, magic, sword and sorcery, and the like. I've also tried throwing in terms related to career advice and self-help because those are at least tangentially related. However, changing the search terms has not done much for sales though the proper terms have gotten me into more search fields (e.g. using superhero got _Nemesis_ into the superhero subgenre).

My two current WIP's will have comedic elements (because I love humor and oddball perspectives!) but those will be minor themes within the larger plotlines.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

moirakatson said:


> I enjoyed Connie Willis's SciFi, and have always found it to be deeply amusing. Diana Wynne Jones would be another, although more to the fantasy side of things.
> 
> Christopher Moore's _Lamb: the Gospel According to Biff_ made me laugh so hard I cried. I suppose some people might not find the concept amusing, though, so if playing around with the story of Jesus doesn't appeal to you, be warned.


Yeah, Lamb is a close third for me. Best Christopher Moore so far.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Nicholas Andrews said:


> What do you call it when the narrator AND the characters tell the jokes?


Trying too hard?


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## Rich Amooi (Feb 14, 2014)

My current WIP is a romantic comedy. I can choose two categories on Amazon so obviously I'm going to choose romance and humor. I've seen some romantic comedies that sell better in the humor section, because they are heavy on the humor, like mine. And others that don't even show up in humor at all. I also need to decide how to market myself...am I a romance novelist or a humorist? I go back and forth on this. My humor sometimes borderlines slapstick and satire, so it won't appeal to the majority of the romance readers who are middle age women, those who like Danielle Steele, Norah Roberts, and Nicholas Sparks. Maybe, I shouldn't label myself at all. 

I also have plans on publishing a collection of humorous short stories, some with no romantic elements. I love some of the earlier work of David Sedaris, but wonder how easy it is to promote that.

Decisions decisions.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Rich, have you looked at the romance keywords yet? Use those to target your work.

Since I like to add value and bump this thread, here's an interesting article: http://time.com/44168/how-to-be-funny-the-six-essential-ingredients-to-humor/


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## Rich Amooi (Feb 14, 2014)

Cian Garrett said:


> Rich, have you looked at the romance keywords yet? Use those to target your work.
> 
> Since I like to add value and bump this thread, here's an interesting article: http://time.com/44168/how-to-be-funny-the-six-essential-ingredients-to-humor/


Thanks Cian! That's a great article. There was another article linked to that with a writer from The Family Guy that was also excellent. Thanks for sharing.


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## LKWatts (May 5, 2011)

I have a rather dark sense of humour and that reflects in everything I write. I love dry wit - basically anything that's similar to my own style.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Rich Amooi said:


> Thanks Cian! That's a great article. There was another article linked to that with a writer from The Family Guy that was also excellent. Thanks for sharing.


Sure. Every little bit helps. I'm definitely a "it can be learned" guy.

Another favorite the Dilbert article: http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/writing-funny.html



LKWatts said:


> I have a rather dark sense of humour and that reflects in everything I write. I love dry wit - basically anything that's similar to my own style.


So something like Tom Shapre's Indecent Exposure for the dark humour, and maybe Kingsley Amis's Lucky Jim for the dry wit?


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## LKWatts (May 5, 2011)

So something like Tom Shapre's Indecent Exposure for the dark humour, and maybe Kingsley Amis's Lucky Jim for the dry wit?
[/quote]

Yup


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

my latest release Stormy Weathers is humor, humor adventure really. So far it hasn't done much, but then I haven't quite figured out how to market it. My next book is also a humor, but it will fall into pa couple of other categories. cozy mystery, paranormal. had some people read it and say it has a very Evanovich feel to it, which IMO is good since in my head I think I was aiming toward that. I think that one will be easier to market and hope it will bring people to Stormy, which I really would like to see do well because I want to continue the series and have several ideas for sequels. 

If anyone figures out a great place to advertise/market humor please post!


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Does anyone actually start out writing a book saying, "I'm going to be funny in this one!"? I can see going in and allowing some characters to be funnier than you might in a serious book, but I would think that the humor evolves out of the story and characters.


Yes. I know going in the tone of the book is going to be silly. Not sure where exactly the laughs will come from but I trust the characters to bring it!


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Sorry for all the replies, been working my way through the thread and answering as I go.

Aside from those already mentioned. I laughed like crazy with _Dave Barry's Big' trouble_ always found the Xanth novels humorous, well punderful anyway  and I enjoy Tim Dorsey's Serge Storm novels quite a bit, though I admit I have more of those in my backlog than I'd actually read.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

As for the advertise / marketing humor, I'd imagine all the normal places work. But it seems a lot smoother going when it's "comic [genre]" rather than straight up comedy.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

So... this Amazon / Hachette things is really funny, no?


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> So... this Amazon / Hachette things is really funny, no?


Much like all humor, I think it depends on the audience.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Comedy books summer reading list: http://theinterrobang.com/comedy-books-summer-reading/


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Comedy books summer reading list: http://theinterrobang.com/comedy-books-summer-reading/


hey my new book isn't on that list!!!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

KL_Phelps said:


> hey my new book isn't on that list!!!


Nor are mine  But glad to see there is at least one British book.  Love British humour


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## steffmetal (May 8, 2014)

This thread is awesome - I have found so many new authors to read. 

The first novel I released "At War With Satan", and my short story collection are both humour books. They are my "learning" books - so I got a few things wrong (mainly paying too much for not great editing - soon to be rectified!) I have found the same thing as others here - humour seems a very hard sell to a lot of people. I can see why - you either get it, or you don't. You either find the author funny, or you don't. It's really hard to categorize, so you don't know where to put it on Amazon (am I horror? fantasy? romance? music books? satire?) and it's also hard to get reviewers to look at it.

My question to other humor authors is, if you wrote SOME humorous books and SOME "serious" books, but in a similiar genre, do you publish them under the same name? Do you use a pen name specifically for your humor?


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Thought I replied to this thread ages ago. I also write funny (or try to). The two predominantly pink covers in my sig-line are humorous. And my forthcoming children's fiction novel is humorous too. 

So far my funny stuff outsells my serious stuff.

I don't read much funny adult fiction, but for kids books there are too many to list. I grew up reading Gordon Korman and Beverly Cleary and a ton of others.

Rue


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

steffmetal said:


> The first novel I released "At War With Satan", and my short story collection are both humour books.
> 
> My question to other humor authors is, if you wrote SOME humorous books and SOME "serious" books, but in a similiar genre, do you publish them under the same name? Do you use a pen name specifically for your humor?


First off: "Death of Mauling by Particularly Homicidal Badgers" is awesome. 

Secondly, yes I've published serious horror under my name as well and it has gotten me dinged in the reviews from people expecting laughs. What I've tried to do instead of a pen name is differentiate the title fonts for my name a bit...as well as try to make it as crystal clear as possible in the blurb if something is more serious.


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## Joseph J Bailey (Jun 28, 2013)

I have had unreasonable amounts of fun writing satirical fantasy novellas to professions that don't exist. I've even managed to sell (and give away) a few copies.

To date, subjects range from a wizard's guide to survival making fun of wizardry, the Gnomish art and science of blending magic and technology (while trying not to get blown up), rules to live (and die) by as a villain, and an exploration of the inner workings of the Dwarven pysche.

The market is huge! 

So is the enjoyment!


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

steffmetal said:


> This thread is awesome - I have found so many new authors to read.
> 
> The first novel I released "At War With Satan", and my short story collection are both humour books. They are my "learning" books - so I got a few things wrong (mainly paying too much for not great editing - soon to be rectified!) I have found the same thing as others here - humour seems a very hard sell to a lot of people. I can see why - you either get it, or you don't. You either find the author funny, or you don't. It's really hard to categorize, so you don't know where to put it on Amazon (am I horror? fantasy? romance? music books? satire?) and it's also hard to get reviewers to look at it.


Well, most main genres (romance, fantasy, mystery, etc) seem to have a humor subgenre. Or you could put it in regular categories and keyword it with humor.



> My question to other humor authors is, if you wrote SOME humorous books and SOME "serious" books, but in a similiar genre, do you publish them under the same name? Do you use a pen name specifically for your humor?


I would go with different pen names. If nothing else, this helps distinguish your humorous stuff from the more serious stuff. Take Tom Holt as an example, he does historical fiction under Thomas Holt and comic fantasy under Tom Holt.


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## Joseph J Bailey (Jun 28, 2013)

I have my more serious epic fantasy (which also has some humor) and my satirical novellas listed under the same name.

I like the idea of one brand. Also, the novellas are set within the same multiverse as the trilogy and are, in fact (or fiction), intended to be works found within that world.


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## steffmetal (May 8, 2014)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> First off: "Death of Mauling by Particularly Homicidal Badgers" is awesome.
> 
> Secondly, yes I've published serious horror under my name as well and it has gotten me dinged in the reviews from people expecting laughs. What I've tried to do instead of a pen name is differentiate the title fonts for my name a bit...as well as try to make it as crystal clear as possible in the blurb if something is more serious.


Thank you. I try 

I'm concerned about this. The thing is, I want to promote all my fiction through my website/blog (which already has a decent audience), and I don't want more than one site, because I've done that before and it is too hard. I am thinking I'll save "Steff Metal" for my humor stuff and use my name, Steff Green, for my dark and serious stuff, and just direct people to the one website / mailing list.


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## steffmetal (May 8, 2014)

Joseph J Bailey said:


> I have had unreasonable amounts of fun writing satirical fantasy novellas to professions that don't exist. I've even managed to sell (and give away) a few copies.
> 
> To date, subjects range from a wizard's guide to survival making fun of wizardry, the Gnomish art and science of blending magic and technology (while trying not to get blown up), rules to live (and die) by as a villain, and an exploration of the inner workings of the Dwarven pysche.


Joseph, your books sound like a hoot! Glad to hear you're having some success in the genre.


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## steffmetal (May 8, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Well, most main genres (romance, fantasy, mystery, etc) seem to have a humor subgenre. Or you could put it in regular categories and keyword it with humor.
> 
> I would go with different pen names. If nothing else, this helps distinguish your humorous stuff from the more serious stuff. Take Tom Holt as an example, he does historical fiction under Thomas Holt and comic fantasy under Tom Holt.


Good point about Tom Holt (I love all his books). I think this is what I'll do.

I'm experimenting with categories to find the best place to stick it. Currently under I think it's FICTION > Fantasy > Contemporary and I'm also under MUSIC > Genres & Styles > Heavy Metal - keywords: horror, new adult & college, devils & demons, teen & young adult, humor, Occult & Supernatural. Being in the music section has worked out really well as a couple of sales will push me close to the top of that category - I'm just not super sure what I'm doing with the others.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

steffmetal said:


> Thank you. I try
> 
> I'm concerned about this. The thing is, I want to promote all my fiction through my website/blog (which already has a decent audience), and I don't want more than one site, because I've done that before and it is too hard. I am thinking I'll save "Steff Metal" for my humor stuff and use my name, Steff Green, for my dark and serious stuff, and just direct people to the one website / mailing list.


Take a look at what Joe Konrath does with his pseudonym on Amazon (I do it too with mine). He lists both the pen name and his name in the author field in KDP - thus gaining the benefit of both the pen name and his own marketability.


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## steffmetal (May 8, 2014)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Take a look at what Joe Konrath does with his pseudonym on Amazon (I do it too with mine). He lists both the pen name and his name in the author field in KDP - thus gaining the benefit of both the pen name and his own marketability.


Bingo! That's perfect. That's what I want!

the freedom of being able to write and publish across multiple genres - and be both funny and serious - is awesome. The perils of being able to write and publish across multiple genres ... not as awesome.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

I tend to write fiction based on dark and serious social issues; but I often include characters that have a sarcastic, humorous take on things. My short story, *Occupy Faerie*, had a wicked faerie with an especially sarcastic outlook on human society. Shade is the main character in *Shade*, my YA Mystery novel with Paranormal elements. She frequently uses sarcastic wit to deal with her difficult life. I had so much fun writing some of Shade's inner and spoken dialog - she could be hilarious, even though the book itself is dark.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Now with more books!

http://splitsider.com/2013/02/the-ultimate-comedy-library-54-books-every-comedy-fan-should-read/

Some of these are obvious, some of these are repeats, but whatever.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

All right. Here are some great non-fiction books to read.

Satiristas.

And Here's the Kicker.

And the follow-up of "Kicker", the recently released Poking a Dead Frog.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

Used to be a sit-com writer, so even though with this pen name it's short mystery/suspense stuff, it's always got a comic element to it. I mean, that's just the way I'm wired.

I have a series where Richard Nixon is the Detective, for heaven's sake. The jokes are low hanging fruit in that one...


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## A.E. Williams (Jul 13, 2014)

Well, I have not gone through all SIX pages of this thread.

But, I did read that list of 57 best humor books.

No *P.J. O'Rourke*??

He is a humorist, and maybe his writings don't fit your initial condtions? (ie his are semi-fictional)

It's observational and situational, and cynical sometimes, but the man has a funny as heck perspective on things.

Of course, maybe I am just too old... ( mutters something terse and pithy)

But, he is the consistently funniest writer I have ever read, (and I LOVE David Sedaris and Steve Martin's stuff!)

A.E. Williams


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Yeah, that definitely hits the subjectivity of comedy. Some of these "Top 10 Funniest Books Ever" lists just fall flat for me. Maybe one or two books will get me laughing... eh, whatever.

Info dump!

Adams, Douglas. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Allen, Woody. (Most or all really.)
Amis, Kingsley. Lucky Jim.
Anthony, Piers. Pet Peeve.
Asprin, Robert. Another Fine Myth.
Barry, Dave. (Most or all really.)
Bombeck, Erma. (Most or all really.)
Croshaw, Yahtzee. Mogworld.
Dennis, Patrick. Auntie Mame.
Evanovich, Janet. One for the Money.
Fforde, Jasper. The Eyre Affair.
Fry, Stephen. The Liar.
Harrison, Harry. The Stainless Steel Rat.
Heller, Joseph. Catch-22.
Hiaasen, Carl. Skin Tight.
Holt, Tom. Expecting Someone Taller.
Idle, Eric. Road to Mars.
Jerome, Jerome K. Three Men in a Boat.
Laurie, Hugh. Gun Seller.
Moore, Christopher. Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal.
O'Rourke, P. J. Don't Vote It Just Encourages the [illegitimate persons]
Pratchett, Terry. The Colour of Magic.
Rankin, Robert. The Hollow Chocolate Bunnies of the Apocalypse.
Rogers, Mark E. Adventures of Samurai Cat.
Scalzi, John. Redshirts.
Sedaris, David. (Most or all really.)
Sharpe, Tom. Indecent Exposure.
Sheckley, Robert. (Most or all really.)
Thurber, James. The Thurber Carnival.
Toole, John Kennedy. Confederacy of Dunces.
Wodehouse, P. G. Carry On, Jeeves.
Willis, Connie. To Say Nothing of the Dog.
Vonnegut, Kurt. (Most or all really.)


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> O'Rourke, P. J. Don't Vote It Just Encourages the [illegitimate persons]


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## A.E. Williams (Jul 13, 2014)

"Peej" was Editor of National Lampoon for like all of my teen years.

He also writes (wrote) for Rolling Stone, Motor Trend, and of course his own books.

One of my favorites: "How to Drive Fast On Drugs While Getting Your Wingwang Squeezed and Not Spill Your Drink", can be found here.

http://www.heretical.com/miscella/reptile.html

It's a quick read, too! 

Truly hilarious!

Like this line:

"You'd have to watch the entire Mexican air force crash-land in a liquid petroleum gas storage facility to match this kind of thrill. " - P.J. O'Rourke

A.E. Williams


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

KL_Phelps said:


> had some people read it and say it has a very Evanovich feel to it, which IMO is good since in my head I think I was aiming


Janet Evanovich is also my targeted audience too. I labeled my book as a humorous mystery. My reviews range from funny (5 star) to not funny at all (1 star). I think I should take out the label to see if that would increase the ratings on my reviews because the bar is set pretty high when a reader is expecting a lol book. I know my humor is not for everyone. I notice that Evanovich doesn't label her books as humorous.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

artan said:


> Janet Evanovich is also my targeted audience too. I labeled my book as a humorous mystery. My reviews range from funny (5 star) to not funny at all (1 star). I think I should take out the label to see if that would increase the ratings on my reviews because the bar is set pretty high when a reader is expecting a lol book. I know my humor is not for everyone. I notice that Evanovich doesn't label her books as humorous.


Agreed about humour being a problem. I've also had the 5 and 1 star story. I've made sure to emphasise that _But can You Drink The Water?_ is British humour. That should prevent readers who don't care for British humour from picking it up and being disappointed.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I've made sure to emphasise that _But can You Drink The Water?_ is British humour. That should prevent readers who don't care for British humour from picking it up and being disappointed.


What is British humor?


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## hell4heather (Mar 30, 2014)

I have written a comedy novel for women that is not a romantic comedy. The trouble is, romance is such a huge category and comedy novels are often not taken seriously, (if you see what I mean  ). As someone else has said here, it is largely subjective and you can end up writing something that risks being a love it or hate it novel.

Having said that, I managed to get an agent but not a publisher - they said my novel was unmarketable. Well, so far it isn't doing too bad, even made an Amazon best seller list. And for my next novel, I'm sticking to the style I write best in, so here I go with another comedy that risks not being branded as unmarketable. But this is me; and this is what I write. Do I want to be marketable? YES! But I don't believe 'they' are right about my book being unmarketable. I will need to come back in twelve months and tell you if I'm right.

I like what Elizabeth Gilbert has to say about women humour writers: 'I think that the whole conversation about who’s included in the serious literary world is an entirely fear-based discussion—that the people who exclude certain kinds of (women) writers from that world are afraid that by including them it will diminish their own seriousness, and the writers themselves are afraid of being excluded, or of not being taken seriously, so that they sometimes either hide some of their impulses or try to write in a certain kind of way to gain approval. I just don’t want to play that way. It’s not fun and it’s not exciting, and it doesn’t lead to daring work.'


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

artan said:


> What is British humor?


It can be very different from American humour. Some of it travels to the US, and some doesn't. My characters are Scouse (from Liverpool). If you're old enough to remember the films Educating Rita and Shirley Valentine you will recognise the characters in my book. A lot of humour comes from shared recognition and some British readers have said they 'know' my characters and can identify with them. That's not as likely to happen with US readers, but some do enjoy British humour.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

artan said:


> What is British humor?






.


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## David J. Rollins (May 1, 2014)

Interesting question. I write humor as well. I've written three novels and a series of 8 novellas that I am currently publishing about one a month. Though I have few reviews, they for the most part are very good. I promise. Check them out. I have been getting some sales, and they seem to be building slowly.

I think humor is somewhat of hard sell, because with the advent of E-books, every book category seems like it is becoming more a niche market. Sure there are those authors that sell books to a broad audience, but most of those seem to extend from before E-books became so popular (which I admit wasn't that long ago.) This seems particularly true for those that write humorous novels, like Douglas Adams, James Morrow and Christopher Lamb, Tom Holt, Robert Rankin, etc. They were established before E-books changed everything. With E-books, it is less hard to find books in your niche, because there are now so many self-published books in every niche.

Humor is a strange one because it is not a niche unto its own. It is a subgenre, and I am not sure how it can exist any other way. For example, I write science fiction humor, which is entirely different from general humor, or college humor, or biographical humor, or any other humor. And since humor is a subgenre, it is harder to get exposure. Readers, even the ones that like science fiction humor, probably don't go to the humor section to find a book. They go to the Science Fiction section, where the humor gets lost with everything else. Being a subgenre, the humor books there wouldn't generate a much sales as those in the broader science fiction genre. 

In addition to that, there are so many different types of humor, not every reader will think the same thing is funny. It's not like everyone likes Steve Martin or Monty Python (though for the life of me, I can't understand why). And there is a stigma humor writers have to overcome as well. Even though I myself write humor, I find myself cautious with the humor I buy, because much of it simply is not to my taste (not to mention the writers who think they are funny and, quite frankly, are not.) On the flipside, when I do find someone that hits it perfectly, I read them quite voraciously.

That said, I would say that humor maybe a hard sale, but it is not an impossible sale. It, like everything, takes time, though humor may take a little more time than others.


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## Nick Bryan (Jul 3, 2014)

My just-published crime book is also fairly heavy on the black comedy, although it does try to do some serious/disturbing moments as well. And I'm also British, I don't know if there's a pattern there...

I did also reach #2 in Dark Comedy on Amazon UK on release day, so that's nice. Also a enjoyed some books by the above-mentioned Tom Holt - considered using him as a point of comparison for my work when talking to agents, although an annoying percentage of them haven't heard of him...


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## Nikki Vaughn (May 21, 2014)

hell4heather said:


> Having said that, I managed to get an agent but not a publisher - they said my novel was unmarketable. Well, so far it isn't doing too bad, even made an Amazon best seller list. And for my next novel, I'm sticking to the style I write best in, so here I go with another comedy that risks not being branded as unmarketable. But this is me; and this is what I write. Do I want to be marketable? YES! But I don't believe 'they' are right about my book being unmarketable. I will need to come back in twelve months and tell you if I'm right.


You know, I was just at Detcon1 and saw a panel on writing humor in speculative fiction (a different genre than what you write, I know), but it was interesting because there was an agent on the panel who was representing a book that he thought was hilarious and fantastic and brilliant but he couldn't get one of the big publishers to bite. He said as far as he could tell, that when it comes to speculative fiction, all of the big publishers are looking for Terry Pratchett clones. And not just Terry Pratchett at the begining of his career like the Colour of Magic - books like he puts out now after decades and 50+ novels of honing his craft. He believed that humor writers, especially ones writing their first or second book, were having a hell of a time selling to publishers because of this unrealistic expectation from the major publishing houses (he actually called them flat out stupid).

I wonder if something similar went on with your book. Although it sounds like maybe the problem there is just that there really isn't an accepted genre for it at all, which is a real shame.

One of the genres I write in (Horror Comedy - which are the short stories in my sig), is a pretty small sub-genre, I think. They're not exactly burning up the charts, but considering they're shorts, they're doing about what I expected them to do... lol.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

artan said:


> What is British humor?


That's when the punchline ends with "guvnor." 



David J. Rollins said:


> I think humor is somewhat of hard sell, because with the advent of E-books, every book category seems like it is becoming more a niche market.


Also doesn't help when Amazon eliminated the "Comedic Fiction" category where those books could be listed.



David J. Rollins said:


> Humor is a strange one because it is not a niche unto its own. It is a subgenre, and I am not sure how it can exist any other way. For example, I write science fiction humor, which is entirely different from general humor, or college humor, or biographical humor, or any other humor. And since humor is a subgenre, it is harder to get exposure. Readers, even the ones that like science fiction humor, probably don't go to the humor section to find a book. They go to the Science Fiction section, where the humor gets lost with everything else. Being a subgenre, the humor books there wouldn't generate a much sales as those in the broader science fiction genre.


Ditto. I did better when Amazon still had the Comedic Fiction category. Since they eliminated it, the books just get lost in the science fiction category.



David J. Rollins said:


> It's not like everyone likes . . . Monty Python (though for the life of me, I can't understand why).


Say what!?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> .


Quite


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Try Benjamin Wallace, he's an indie. I read _Post-Apocalyptic Nomadic Warriors_ and enjoyed it.
http://www.amazon.com/Benjamin-Wallace/e/B004Z9GAE2/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Also doesn't help when Amazon eliminated the "Comedic Fiction" category where those books could be listed.
> 
> Ditto. I did better when Amazon still had the Comedic Fiction category. Since they eliminated it, the books just get lost in the science fiction category.
> 
> Say what!?


There doesn't seem anywhere to place humorous fiction, it's either in literary fiction - humour, or humour/humor, which includes non-fiction. A number of websites don't have a section for humour, or even general fiction. I asked Bookbub in which genre I should place my humorous fiction and they told me to place it where I thought best and they would decide 

It also makes it difficult to put tags. Do readers search for comedy, humour, funny books, funny novels, humorous fiction,


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

And a recent article by Filk Crit Hulk on comedy writing and why Guardians of the Galaxy did so well.

(You know, for a forum that regularly hosts involved conversations about erotica, beastiality, incest, rape, and just how explicit Zon will let you get with covers, not being able to post a link because the URL has the word ass in the title is fucking stupid.)


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> And a recent article by Filk Crit Hulk on comedy writing and why Guardians of the Galaxy did so well.
> 
> (You know, for a forum that regularly hosts involved conversations about erotica, beastiality, incest, rape, and just how explicit Zon will let you get with covers, not being able to post a link because the URL has the word ass in the title is [expletive]ing stupid.)


In other parts of the world we use arse, which seems to get through


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2014)

Hey everybody. A friend sent me the link to this thread. I'd looked here before for ANYTHING about humor writing (ebooks only) and found zilch. Right now, I write erotica (I know, I know; fell into it kind of accidentally, actually), but I really LIKE writing humor, snark, essays, blog posts, etc. Even about erotica crap, I like to do humor with it. Snarky is easier for me than "fiction." Much.

Thing is, friends say "Oh you're so funny, collect some essays or something and get an artist to do a cover and upload to Amazon." Fine but the humor market is ridiculously tough to be noticed in, right? I'm already invisible. Not even sure what categories up there. Anyway, I'll be following this thread, just wanted to say hello to other humor writing people! Carry on.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Sheri Savill said:


> Thing is, friends say "Oh you're so funny, collect some essays or something and get an artist to do a cover and upload to Amazon." Fine but the humor market is ridiculously tough to be noticed in, right? I'm already invisible. Not even sure what categories up there. Anyway, I'll be following this thread, just wanted to say hello to other humor writing people! Carry on.


I think it depends. There's straight "humor" categories and then there are sub-genres. When I market my stuff as humor, it's a tough sell, but when I target sub-genres (i.e. horror comedy), I get much better results.

As with everything book-related, it's about figuring out how to navigate that maze between you and your audience.


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## mysterygal (Aug 7, 2014)

Grady Hendrix said:


> I had sort of thought funny writing was dead on Amazon, so it's nice to see so many people posting. I'm curious, when you guys choose categories, do you tend to go with Humorous, or do you put them in their genre-appropriate categories and let your covers indicate that the books are funny?


All I can tell you is about my intentions. I've nearly finished a "funny" murder mystery. I thought I'd classify it as a cozy and use a light-hearted looking cover. My blurb will also reflect the inexperience of my two sleuths. Then, I'll insert the word humor in the key-word slot. I have no idea if this will work. But it would be nice if it did. My first mystery sold well, not here but at another outlet, so I'm hoping someone will like this latest offering.


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## vic6string (Aug 9, 2014)

I don't see me doing comedic novels, but my first book (the one in my current signature line) is a humor piece that is sort of a hybrid of Dave Barry and stand up comic work. The problem with that type of book is there aren't many people who read tons of it. So if someone is in the mood for a funny read, they go for one of the gazzilion books put out by popular stand up comics. People who have read my book think it is hilarious, but if you didn't know me and you went looking for that type of book, I'd be in a stack with guys like George Carlin, Bill Cosby, Paul Reiser, Ray Romano, Jim Gaffigan... those guys have years of stand up work behind them and millions of fans. Even if it is usually just most of their stage show on paper with very little new material, people still feel more comfortable buying something to make them laugh from someone who has already made them laugh.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Just from the responses to this thread and poking around the Amazon categories, I'd say you're far better off putting a humorous book in a regular genre category then using subcategories and/or keywords to indicate it's also humor.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2014)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> I think it depends. There's straight "humor" categories and then there are sub-genres. When I market my stuff as humor, it's a tough sell, but when I target sub-genres (i.e. horror comedy), I get much better results.
> 
> As with everything book-related, it's about figuring out how to navigate that maze between you and your audience.


I hear ya. Thanks. Does anyone know of websites where "we" humor writers are listed, etc.? Maybe there needs to be such a place, with high visibility, at least in terms of SEO. Just thinking out loud as to better ways to find people who are interested in reading humor e-books. "Discover new humor writers," that type of thing.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Just from the responses to this thread and poking around the Amazon categories, I'd say you're far better off putting a humorous book in a regular genre category then using subcategories and/or keywords to indicate it's also humor.


I think I might give this a go. I sell most of my humour in the UK and this is how But Can You Drink The Water? is listed. But if I search for it under 'humorous fiction' I can never find it. Even under humour it doesn't show up and it's got 64 reviews .

Look for similar items by category
Books > Fiction > Humour
Books > Humour > Fiction
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Humour
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Contemporary Fiction
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Humour & Satire > Literary Humour


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Fascinating thought in the O.P.: that describing a novel as comic is "the kiss of death."

Why so? And yet, consider Salman Rushdie's "Midnight's Children" and "Satanic Verses." If they were described as "comic novels," they wouldn't have gotten a fraction of the attention they received. So there's truth in this.

Humor comes in to some degree in nearly all of my books, but the word "funny" has been used most often of my novel 'The Revised Kama Sutra." But I did not set out to write a "comic novel", but merely to tell a story. And if the book is funny, at times, it's a function of the subject, the voice, and my mood at the time.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Sheri Savill said:


> I hear ya. Thanks. Does anyone know of websites where "we" humor writers are listed, etc.? Maybe there needs to be such a place, with high visibility, at least in terms of SEO. Just thinking out loud as to better ways to find people who are interested in reading humor e-books. "Discover new humor writers," that type of thing.


Humor is subjective. How would you deal with books that are unintentionally humorous? That is, the book was so bad it became akin to a train wreck that you simply couldn't stop reading due to every feeble attempt of the author at composing a serious work of fiction instead managing to draft a work of such absurdity that it became an unintended work of comedy.



Richardcrasta said:


> Fascinating thought in the O.P.: that describing a novel as comic is "the kiss of death."


I'm not sure that I would agree with that. I am instead beginning to form the opinion that putting my name on the work is "the kiss of death" because I think people see the name and say to themselves one of four things... 1) I've seen this guy's blog posts so I'm sure this book stinks; 2) I've seen this guy's tweets so I'm sure this book stinks; 3) I've seen this guy posting on Kboards so I'm sure this book stinks; 4) I've never heard of this guy so I'm sure this book stinks, which may be further expanded by 4a) I've never heard of this guy and this book is 99 cents so I'm sure this book stinks, or 4b) I've never heard of this guy and this book is $3.99 so I'm sure the author is delusional and this book stinks.

Which, naturally, leads me to wonder if I might increase sales by including a free clothespin with their purchase.


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## Peter Julier (Jun 16, 2012)

I've heard comedy is one of the toughest things to write, and I believe that's true. Timing and sentence structure have to be spot on, or it just doesn't work. Humor is also very subjective; people will either love or hate your book. I agree it doesn't seem to sell well, but readers are very loyal. There are more popular genres to write that would be financially rewarding, but nothing beats a review that Say's "thank you for making me laugh on a day I really needed to."  So, I don't write for the money; I do it because I just love it, and it takes my mind off the daily grind working at the bubble gum factory.


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## ajramsey42 (Jul 30, 2014)

Good time for this post to crop back up. I am noticing comedy doesn't seem to be a popular category. My first novel doesn't comfortably fit in any category but humor & satire. And that category doesn't seem to have a lot of people digging around for new things. I guess I should have listened a little closer to advice regarding writing a more genre specific book.

Oh well, it is what it is. It's the story I've had floating around my head for eight years. I'm finishing a second in the same world, getting new covers and titles and then I'm going to ignore them.

I'm just going to pretend I'm an A list actor. I'll write a formulaic genre book. ZOMBIES! Then I'll work on my passion project. Sci-Fi Humor.

Let's just hope it doesn't all end in tears. (ripped off from Hitchhikers Guide)


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## vic6string (Aug 9, 2014)

ajramsey42 said:


> I'm just going to pretend I'm an A list actor. I'll write a formulaic genre book. ZOMBIES! Then I'll work on my passion project. Sci-Fi Humor.
> 
> Let's just hope it doesn't all end in tears. (ripped off from Hitchhikers Guide)


Hey, it isn't impossible, just not easy. Futurama had a nice little TV run as a semi sci-fi humor work. I am in the same place as you having written the funny little book I have always wanted to write, with a follow-up coming, but with the knowledge that if I want to make some money at this I am going to have to pad it with some other genres (and maybe pen names... haven't decided yet if my comedy stuff being first on that name taints it for other genres)


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2014)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Humor is subjective. How would you deal with books that are unintentionally humorous? That is, the book was so bad it became akin to a train wreck that you simply couldn't stop reading due to every feeble attempt of the author at composing a serious work of fiction instead managing to draft a work of such absurdity that it became an unintended work of comedy.
> 
> Yep. I realize that humor is subjective. It was just a question. No biggie.
> 
> ...


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

For my money, the funniest novel I have ever read would have to be John Kennedy Toole's A Confederacy of Dunces. Hands down. The second funniest would have to be Celine's Journey to the End of the Night. (Not to be confused by the Eugene O'Neill play Long Day's Journey Into Night.)
If you're looking for a few chuckles in the PI genre, give BONE a try. My R-rated take on it.  It's perma-free.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

My take on this is that genres which evoke a visceral response have the lowest cultural status. Horror stories which scare the sh*t out of you, weepies that make you cry or humorous writing that makes you burst out laughing are all often described as if they're pandering to baser instincts and by implication, easy to write (and a gulity pleasure to consume). For the record, I think precisely the opposite is true. These genres are easy to do badly and very hard to do well.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Scott Pixello said:


> My take on this is that genres which evoke a visceral response have the lowest cultural status. Horror stories which scare the sh*t out of you, weepies that make you cry or humorous writing that makes you burst out laughing are all often described as if they're pandering to baser instincts and by implication, easy to write (and a gulity pleasure to consume). For the record, I think precisely the opposite is true. These genres are easy to do badly and very hard to do well.


I agree. The story has to have all the elements of general literature PLUS be funny/amusing/humorous/comic


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## David J. Rollins (May 1, 2014)

Scott Pixello said:


> My take on this is that genres which evoke a visceral response have the lowest cultural status. Horror stories which scare the sh*t out of you, weepies that make you cry or humorous writing that makes you burst out laughing are all often described as if they're pandering to baser instincts and by implication, easy to write (and a gulity pleasure to consume). For the record, I think precisely the opposite is true. These genres are easy to do badly and very hard to do well.


Excellent point.


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## Lacey Noonan (Aug 21, 2014)

Scott Pixello said:


> My take on this is that genres which evoke a visceral response have the lowest cultural status. Horror stories which scare the sh*t out of you, weepies that make you cry or humorous writing that makes you burst out laughing are all often described as if they're pandering to baser instincts and by implication, easy to write (and a gulity pleasure to consume). For the record, I think precisely the opposite is true. These genres are easy to do badly and very hard to do well.


This is an astute observation, Scott. But I think the problem with writing humor goes deeper than just the description of the book. Humor is hard to do and most likely people have been burned in the past.

I have a few stories up so far in various genres and it is the funnier/stranger ones that sell next to no copies, even though I think they are my best work. Meanwhile everyone and their grandma is writing a Kidnapped by the Billionaire Alpha Wolf/50 Shades Knockoff and they are flying off the shelves.

I guess what I'm saying is... I'm probably shooting myself in the foot writing comedically. And that it's time to call grandma up, have her dust off her old typewriter and introduce her to whips and blindfolds.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

So how are my comedy-writer friends doing? Any announcements or releases to mention?

I have one. If I may be so bold. I just put up a comic fantasy novelette, Puck You Mr. Ashbury. It's the first in a series I'm planning. Have a peek if you're brave enough.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I've recently launched the paperback version of But Can You Drink The Water? Had one sale


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I've recently launched the paperback version of But Can You Drink The Water? Had one sale


I love the cover! It's really eye catching.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

artan said:


> I love the cover! It's really eye catching.


Thanks so much. I wanted to make it quite clear that it's humour


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

mysterygal said:


> All I can tell you is about my intentions. I've nearly finished a "funny" murder mystery. I thought I'd classify it as a cozy and use a light-hearted looking cover. My blurb will also reflect the inexperience of my two sleuths. Then, I'll insert the word humor in the key-word slot. I have no idea if this will work. But it would be nice if it did. My first mystery sold well, not here but at another outlet, so I'm hoping someone will like this latest offering.


I think adding humor to my mystery might the reason why my reviews aren't as high as it could be. There are several that said the plot is good, but it's not as funny as the author thought. These reviews made me wonder if adding "humorous mystery" might have set the bar high in reader's expectations. I removed the humorous mystery label a week ago, so let's see if future reviews would be better. I thought able adding "light-hearted mystery as I've seen some of the big names do, but decide to wait if plain old cozy mystery would be better. I guess I'll know after a couple of months.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

Oh, it is soooo cute!!  I love it.


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## going going gone (Jun 4, 2013)

This has been such an interesting thread to read. I also feel better about my comedic romantic suspense not doing very well.  

Question for you all: I find there are days I just can't write funny. I'm a good self-disciplinarian as a writer, and I believe in writing every day, getting the words out, no matter what. But if I'm not feeling witty, I'm just not. I have to turn to a different project instead. Is that your experience, or can you, with good control of craft, push out humorous scenes on your mopish days?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

cadle-sparks said:


> This has been such an interesting thread to read. I also feel better about my comedic romantic suspense not doing very well.
> 
> Question for you all: I find there are days I just can't write funny. I'm a good self-disciplinarian as a writer, and I believe in writing every day, getting the words out, no matter what. But if I'm not feeling witty, I'm just not. I have to turn to a different project instead. Is that your experience, or can you, with good control of craft, push out humorous scenes on your mopish days?


It's easy to over-due trying to be funny. If you're not having a funny day, just keep writing. You can always punch-up the story later.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> It's easy to over-due trying to be funny. If you're not having a funny day, just keep writing. You can always punch-up the story later.


I power through. I don't write every day because I don't have the time, but when there is time, it's hands on keyboard. I can always revise later.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Anyone have good news from funny land?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Anyone have good news from funny land?


I've sold two paperback copies of _But Can You Drink The Water?_


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Humour tends to come fairly naturally to my style of writing, the result of soaking up everything Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett had ever written when I was 14. If anything, I try to rein in the comedy in most of my work. A few years ago, I genuinely thought I was writing a straight Christmas horror story set in a theatre, right up until the point where a pantomime cow started defusing a nerve gas bomb.

I don't find mopey days a hindrance to writing humour. The humour may take on a slightly different tone, but funny is still funny. If I'm feeling a bit morose, it tends to be dark comedy. If I'm angry about something, I can get quite waspish and ranty. My usual tone is pretty black humour at the best of times - it's good to get a bit of variety.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Anyone have good news from funny land?


Released the second book in my Kat Parker series, and put the first on sale, which hit #1 in two categories and went as high as 7 in satire!


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Just popped in to see what this thread is about.... glad to see there are some 'serious funny writers' still around. I like to read dramatic books, but my tastes in entertainment (mostly TV & movies) have leaned toward a preference to humor. Not necessarily constant comedy--I can't stand slapstick, so no Three Stooges for me, thanks--but just realistic things that happen in the real world. My family tends to have a very dry sense of humor so family gatherings are full of bad puns, ironic witticisms, and other verbal nonsense. So of course, that filters into my writing as well. Or at least, I _think_ it does.... as we all know, what we think we write isn't always what readers perceive.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Jena H said:


> Just popped in to see what this thread is about.... glad to see there are some 'serious funny writers' still around. I like to read dramatic books, but my tastes in entertainment (mostly TV & movies) have leaned toward a preference to humor. Not necessarily constant comedy--I can't stand slapstick, so no Three Stooges for me, thanks--but just realistic things that happen in the real world. My family tends to have a very dry sense of humor so family gatherings are full of bad puns, ironic witticisms, and other verbal nonsense. So of course, that filters into my writing as well. Or at least, I _think_ it does.... as we all know, what we think we write isn't always what readers perceive.


I'm not into slapstick either. I prefer observational humour where readers laugh because they recognise themselves.


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## Morgan Jameson (Sep 16, 2014)

I have more comedy in my more literary stuff, because frankly, sometimes life is just funny. Even in my thrillers I try and provide a bit of comic relief here and there. Easy to over do it in a book which is meant to be serious however. Just my .02


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

We've been talking about comic novels on other threads here. I write comedy plays and my mysteries feature quirky, small town folks that people say are hilarious. I love writing spoofs and have written one based on DRACULA (The Journal of Mina Harker) and another on the Wizard of Oz.

To say that comedy is the kiss of death is something I've never heard. On the large mystery reader's listserv, Dorothy-L, comic novels is something that frequently comes up, and there are lots of readers who love them.


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## Charlie Ward (Sep 29, 2014)

alawston said:


> Humour tends to come fairly naturally to my style of writing, the result of soaking up everything Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett had ever written when I was 14.


Same here. Describing those books as comic wasn't so much a "kiss of death" to me as it was a reason to seek them out.


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## MTM (Aug 9, 2011)

THE FAMOUS UNION was written to bring healthy laughter into a madcap world. Reviewers have reported it to be a hoot, which makes me feel good.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Any updates on how people are doing with humorous fiction these days?  Is KU having any effect?


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## Carolyn J. Rose Mystery Writer (Aug 10, 2010)

My Subbing isn't for Sissies series has done well - the comedy arises from the protagonist's views on life and love, and her job as a substitute teacher - I know from experience that if you can't laugh at a lot of what goes on in high school (mostly after the fact) you aren't going to be able to handle that job.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Well, hello old friend.

Hope you're all having fun.

I've since released a comic fantasy novella. It was a blast to write, but it's not doing much at all.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

My mysteries are more situational comedy - with the sitcom in the sub-plot involving my DI protag's law-bending family. Though, having said that, I also enjoy writing humorous exchanges in the main plot.

I've managed to make a full-time living at this for a few years now, so comedic writing isn't all bad news. It helps that my main series has fifteen books in it.


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## Kirk Hanley (Dec 16, 2014)

Glad to hear of the humor and comedy success stories. It seems to have worked for some authors - Donald Westlake, Douglas Adams, Janet Evanovich (well, her early stuff at least.) I have started a humorous mystery series with my PI, Chandler Shott, which I hope to be working on for years. I also have some ideas for other mystery series and stand-alone satiric novels.

I have been a performer with Second City and written for The Onion. Like a lot of folks, I'm not sure I really have a choice of not writing comedy - it seems to be part of my DNA.

Kirk


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## P.C. (Peter) Anders (Feb 6, 2013)

I would say some of what I write falls within the realm of comedy, satire, humorous observations, wordplay, and so on. One of my books has been a consistent seller. People love to laugh, and if the laughter is combined with information on a particular subject, I think people like that too.


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## lynnemurray (May 19, 2011)

I am glad to discover this thread and will delve deeply into some of the works on here as time (and finances!) permit. I live to laugh and so everything I've written (mysteries, chick lit and vampire) has a strong comic elements. I respect so many funny authors (Terry Pratchett, Carl Hiassen, Dave Barry, etc.) who can reliably make me laugh, but I don't think it's wise to market my books primarily as humor because I want people who are intrigued by the story elements to be able to find and read my books--even when the story elements are rather droll (e.g., The Falstaff Vampire Files is about Sir John Falstaff, undead and misbehaving in San Francisco). 

I can't say what succeeds in Kindle-book-land because I'm still chasing that goal. However I have found that it helps to make sure the jokes advance the story whenever possible. 

Over and over, I've run into readers and critics who don't get certain jokes in my work. Sometimes they even get annoyed that there are jokes. Those who enjoy the humor can and will laugh. The trick seems to be to keep the flow of the story strong enough so that those readers who don't get any given jokes (or my brand of humor) to keep reading to find out what happens next.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I'm also considering changing the genre of But Can You Drink The Water? from humour to general, just to see what would happen. Some websites don't have humour or general fiction e.g Bookbub  . But I've changed the cover to make it clear it is humour. However, I'm not sure how many readers actively search for 'humour/humor'.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

Still beavering away like...well, a beaver really. Humour seems to be something that readers really value and enjoy but are wary of seeking out directly. Too many books that set themselves out as funny just don't deliver. It's like a comedian who opens his or her act with 'Hey, the funniest thing happened to me yesterday...' which is a guaranteed laugh-killer.
Anyway, I'm still writing. 2015 will herald my first sci-fi, my first romantic comedy and something that will really hack off religious people. Lots to look forward to. And on top of all that, I still have something which money cannot buy...which is poverty, of course.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> However, I'm not sure how many readers actively search for 'humour/humor'.


Maybe people not looking for humor is the reason Amazon ditched the "comic fiction" category. I've tried changing categories, blurbs, covers and nothing has made a difference.

I'm not even sure if humorous fiction authors got together and offered a humorous fiction collection if that would make any difference in finding readers. Humor is so subjective that what one person finds hilarious, another person will think is stupid.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Scott Pixello said:


> Humour seems to be something that readers really value and enjoy but are wary of seeking out directly. Too many books that set themselves out as funny just don't deliver.


I agree. I've had people tell me I need to put "It's funny!" in my blurbs but that just feels like the kiss of death to me. Seems to me that every time I see a self-described "funny" book on Amazon, it is certain to not be funny.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

ʇɹǝuuıɹ ˙ɔ uɐp said:


> I agree. I've had people tell me I need to put "It's funny!" in my blurbs but that just feels like the kiss of death to me. Seems to me that every time I see a self-described "funny" book on Amazon, it is certain to not be funny.


A blog by Bookbub said that blurbs with 'hilarious' in them got far more clicks. I used to be against this sort of thing, but decided to change my blurb to include 'hilarious'. Didn't make a huge difference, but it might have helped slightly.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm amazed by the idea that putting 'hilarious' makes people look up a book. Mine is doing very nicely in the British Humour/satire category on Amazon dot com. It's a pity that category isn't present on any of the other AmaOn categories. I've tried repeatedly to get the free first book of my series listed on Bookbub. Maybe I need to put 'hilarious' in my blurb. Then again since they and many other U.s. Sites don't have a humour section should we take their word for it.

I sell about 12 - 18 books from my humorous series each month. That's over three books though. The first one is free. I think that for funny fantasy sci fi adventure with a touch of clean romance that's probably as good as it's going to get.

Cheers

MTM


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

M T McGuire said:


> I'm amazed by the idea that putting 'hilarious' makes people look up a book. Mine is doing very nicely in the British Humour/satire category on Amazon dot com. It's a pity that category isn't present on any of the other AmaOn categories. I've tried repeatedly to get the free first book of my series listed on Bookbub. Maybe I need to put 'hilarious' in my blurb. Then again since they and many other U.s. Sites don't have a humour section should we take their word for it.
> 
> I sell about 12 - 18 books from my humorous series each month. That's over three books though. The first one is free. I think that for funny fantasy sci fi adventure with a touch of clean romance that's probably as good as it's going to get.
> 
> ...


Where did you find the British humour category on Amazon? I can only find fiction - humorous. Did you just add it as a tag?


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Where did you find the British humour category on Amazon? I can only find fiction - humorous. Did you just add it as a tag?


It's really obscure and I found it on a post by Nicholas Rossis about finding an obscure category so you can become a best seller easily as then Amazon is slightly more enthusiastic about selling your books. Hang on... ah yes. Here we are. This is the post I'm thinking of.

http://nicholasrossis.me/2014/10/11/i-just-published-my-book-now-what/

And this is the list of Amazon categories he posted.

http://nicholasrossis.com/uploads/AmazonCategories.xls

I really shouldn't tell you this because the reason I'm number one in the free category for these books is because I'm the only author with a book in there and when yours join me, I'll be number two! Phnark!

So my category is: Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > British > Humor & Satire

I have two books in there, one free and one paid and I had to ask Amazon to add them. Strangely, the category doesn't exist in British Amazon which is a blow because the Americans don't always 'get' my book.

You can find it on the UK store if you do a search. I'm number 2 behind Mr Rossis, who gave me the advice in the first place! ;-)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=Kindle%20eBooks%20%3E%20Literature%20%26%20Fiction%20%3E%20British%20%3E%20Humor%20%26%20Satire

Cheers

MTM


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

M T McGuire said:


> It's really obscure and I found it on a post by Nicholas Rossis about finding an obscure category so you can become a best seller easily as then Amazon is slightly more enthusiastic about selling your books. Hang on... ah yes. Here we are. This is the post I'm thinking of.
> 
> http://nicholasrossis.me/2014/10/11/i-just-published-my-book-now-what/
> 
> ...


Thanks so much.

Did you upload your books and first put them in the category Fiction - Humour and then ask KDP to put them in: Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > British > Humor & Satire?


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

I left one category blank and asked Amazon to add the books.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

M T McGuire said:


> I left one category blank and asked Amazon to add the books.


Thanks. I'll give it a try.


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## Heide Goody (Oct 24, 2012)

What an excellent thread. Loads of interesting ideas, thanks all for being so generous with information.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Being a new year, it's probably time to resurrect this thread for 2015.

Inexplicably, January 2015 has been better than December 2014.  And I ran free promos in early December which appeared to generate a sale or two after the run followed by many, many days of no sales.  Then, with no promos in January, sales and borrows for whatever reason began to happen.

Then, I sent out my first newsletter this past week, which may or may not have resulted in a sale.  The sale could have been a result or it could have been coincidental.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

I manage to make a full-time living from my humorous mysteries. I don't earn a fortune by any stretch, but my income is enough to get by on.

It's not even as if any of them are new; all but the last in my main series are backlist (the first four in the series were published from 1993-96). It's wonderful to earn money from them instead of having them languishing at a few pounds worth of sales (or none) on my ex-publisher's royalty statements.

Much to my surprise, I still earn a decent amount from the Uk's Public Lending Rights income which rolls into my bank account every February. One of the pluses of libraries having limited funds for new books, I guess. It's saved my books from the 'for sale' shelves!


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## 67499 (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm about to find out if humor - in my case, comic crime caper stories - really sell on Kindle, and I'll let everyone know what happens. On Friday, the first novel in my 7 book series went live on AMZ - _The Feathered Virgin_ - and I expect to have the next two live in a couple of days. Moments after the first went up on AMZ, it sold its first few copies, which was a surprise as I hadn't begun any marketing yet. Hope that's a good sign for those of us who enjoy Donald E. Westlake/David Lodge/Tom Sharpe/Pamela Hansford Johnson-type of wry humor.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Steven Hardesty said:


> I'm about to find out if humor - in my case, comic crime caper stories - really sell on Kindle, and I'll let everyone know what happens. On Friday, the first novel in my 7 book series went live on AMZ - _The Feathered Virgin_ - and I expect to have the next two live in a couple of days. Moments after the first went up on AMZ, it sold its first few copies, which was a surprise as I hadn't begun any marketing yet. Hope that's a good sign for those of us who enjoy Donald E. Westlake/David Lodge/Tom Sharpe/Pamela Hansford Johnson-type of wry humor.


You're off to a good start. Congrats. Keep us posted about your progress.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Steven Hardesty said:


> I'm about to find out if humor - in my case, comic crime caper stories - really sell on Kindle, and I'll let everyone know what happens. On Friday, the first novel in my 7 book series went live on AMZ - _The Feathered Virgin_ - and I expect to have the next two live in a couple of days. Moments after the first went up on AMZ, it sold its first few copies, which was a surprise as I hadn't begun any marketing yet. Hope that's a good sign for those of us who enjoy Donald E. Westlake/David Lodge/Tom Sharpe/Pamela Hansford Johnson-type of wry humor.


Congrats. I really like the branding of the covers. About how many words are you shooting for with each book in the series?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Also to the thread in general:

Show me the funny!


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Show me the funny!


This e is pretty fun.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2015)

My mystery/suspense books have humor and are a fun read, but I don't know about being downright comical. Most of the humor derives from the main character's take on life and her attempts to deal with situations and people that are unfamiliar to her. The readers enjoy the humor because they can see themselves reacting in the same way.

There is an audience out there for lighter mysteries. How big it is, I don't know.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I think there should be a genre 'light-hearted'. I'm reading a trad published book that Cosmopolitan advises 'bury your nose in this hilarious novel'. I'm two-thirds of the way through and I haven't even smiled yet. However, I am willing to admit that it's not a 'serious' read and would be better described as 'light-hearted'.

(I am enjoying it, except that an English character, living in England, is quoted as saying 'gotten' and 'he dove into the water'. These are not expressions generally heard used by Brits.)


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I think there should be a genre 'light-hearted'. I'm reading a trad published book that Cosmopolitan advises 'bury your nose in this hilarious novel'. I'm two-thirds of the way through and I haven't even smiled yet. However, I am willing to admit that it's not a 'serious' read and would be better described as 'light-hearted'.
> 
> (I am enjoying it, except that an English character, living in England, is quoted as saying 'gotten' and 'he dove into the water'. These are not expressions generally heard used by Brits.)


God, no! You're so right, Jan. I must have read too many American books and had, inadvertently, used 'gotten' in one of my earlier books. What a smack on the wrist I got for that from the erudite lady who critiqued it!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

hardnutt said:


> God, no! You're so right, Jan. I must have read too many American books and had, inadvertently, used 'gotten' in one of my earlier books. What a smack on the wrist I got for that from the erudite lady who critiqued it!


The worst of it is, the author is an editor  And the book is about an editor and the writers she has to deal with! It does give you some insight into what editors have to deal with .


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> The worst of it is, the author is an editor  And the book is about an editor and the writers she has to deal with! It does give you some insight into what editors have to deal with .


If the writer's American it makes sense. It's ubiquitous in the States, but verboten in the UK.


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## Shei Darksbane (Jan 31, 2015)

Haven't read through the thread so not sure if someone has already said it:

THE DRESDEN FILES.

And go sign up for my mailing list.  My Urban Fantasy is definitely going to be hilarious. The MC is nothing if not snarky and witty.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

It's a pity there can't be a self-designated 'chuckle-ometer' so writing can be pitched at a certain level of mirth. For some reason, no-one expects every romance novel to be the greatest example of its genre but the bar seems to be set very high with humour. Any description of a narrative as 'hilarious' acts like Kryptonite (certainly to stereotypically-understated Brits).


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Scott Pixello said:


> It's a pity there can't be a self-designated 'chuckle-ometer' so writing can be pitched at a certain level of mirth. For some reason, no-one expects every romance novel to be the greatest example of its genre but the bar seems to be set very high with humour. Any description of a narrative as 'hilarious' acts like Kryptonite (certainly to stereotypically-understated Brits).


I agree about the hilarious. But then I read a blog from Bookbub that said blurbs with 'hilarious' in them got far more clicks, so I capitulated and added 'hilarious' to one of my blurbs. Some reviewers have found it hilarious, others not, but I did say it was British humour  .


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## M. Sid Kelly (Oct 24, 2013)

I guess I don't come around here enough. I just found this thread and read the whole thing from over a year ago up to now. I'm glad to see it's being kept alive. I enjoyed the answers to the interesting questions about writing/selling humor. So if you'll indulge me, I'd like to give some answers from my perspective over several posts. First up is British vs American humor.

Here's whatever British vs American humor cred that I may have: My mother is English and my father is pretty much an American hillbilly who settled us in California when he retired from the US Air Force. I learned to speak English in London, and that's where my earliest memories are from. While I was a teen in California, the other kids were watching Saturday Night Live, but my mom and I were watching Monty Python, The Two Ronnies, Reginald Perrin, Benny Hill, Fawlty Towers, Black Adder, and pretty much anything that she could find on PBS or video rental. The funniest person I knew growing up was my mom's brother. The stories he told about hustling in London made me think of him as living a parallel life to Del Boy from Fools and Horses, which was a show he loved. These days I've been keeping up with QI and new Red Dwarf seasons as they come along.

So I like to think I have a perspective from both side of the pond - so here goes.

One thing I notice about "British humor" is that it tends to operate on at least two levels at a time, while "American humor" usually operates on one level. In American humor, the silly part of a scene or skit is usually the whole joke. In British humor there's often an amusing scenario, mostly surreal or absurd, that is funny enough on its own. But this baseline scenario serves as a springboard to jokes within jokes, or little twists that take the joke to another level.

Probably the best way to describe what I mean is with some examples. I'll use Monty Python's Flying Circus since it's probably the most familiar.

In the Bicycle Tour episode, the main character keeps damaging his food when he crashes his bike. This running gag could have sustained a Saturday Night Live sketch on its own. But this is British humor, so the bicyclist meets a guy who happens to be an expert on food damage and he has developed a tomato that avoids damage by ejecting itself from wherever it is before an accident. Suddenly the tomato ejects itself from the car, which distracts the driver and causes him to crash, with the tomato presumably undamaged.

So here we have a tomato that avoids damage by avoiding an accident that it created in order to avoid damage from the accident that it created. Sheesh, that's gotta be a metaphor for something! It's the kind of gag that, for me, elicits a 'what?' right before I get it and start laughing. It has just that little leap into a higher level of humor from a baseline of absurdity.

Here's link to it. (10 minutes long and the tomato bit happens toward the end.) http://youtu.be/Coi86g8bxE8

Another example of what I think of as British humor, and that I don't think could have worked on Saturday Night Live, is the Man Who Talks in Anagrams. The speaking in anagrams is clever and funny enough, but the anagrams themselves contain jokes and odd phrases that go by very fast. Again, I see it as a baseline absurdity that provides a platform for another level of jokes. One reason I don't think you'd see this on SNL is that they wouldn't trust the audience to keep up. British comedians seem to trust the audience more than American ones do.

Here it is: http://youtu.be/Jyb-dlVrrz4

I hope you'll excuse one more example that comes to mind. The Italian Lessons sketch starts out silly and funny enough - the introductory course on Italian is populated by native Italian speakers that the poor professor can't understand. I think this would work just fine as a stand-alone gag without the German student in the class. But the German realizes that he's in the wrong class and the professor directs him to the German language class. Now you realize that this is an entire institution with this absurd educational philosophy, and yet the professor is still befuddled by it. There's a bigger joke being made here, and the audience is trusted to get it.

Italian Lesson sketch: http://youtu.be/Q3iAqxNpQ-A

I saw Eddie Izzard a couple of years ago in a small college town in northern California. It seemed like the audience was distracted by the surrealism and back-linking, and sometimes missed the jokes because of it. Maybe I was seeing what I expected to see... and I'm not saying they weren't smart enough to get the jokes, they just weren't trained to deal with the presentation. It reminded me of watching American audiences trying to dance to polyrhythmic African music.

I don't mean to be insulting to my fellow Americans, but our humor is usually served up like a pie in the face so we are sure not to miss the joke. British humor is served up more like a penguin on the telly. That said, there is plenty of American humor that could meet my definition of British humor, but it isn't the norm. I'm thinking of shows like Colbert or Harry Shearer's Le Show. But most mainstream American stuff is the one-level kind of humor.

If you find yourself already laughing, and then asking WHAT?! right before you laugh some more, or if you watch it over again and find lots of stuff you missed, it could be British humor.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I think this typifies British humour. Irony has a lot to do with it.

Liverpool Hurricane Appeal

A major hurricane (Hurricane Shazza) and an earthquake measuring 5.8 on the Richter Scale hit Liverpool in the early hours of Tuesday with its epicentre in Knotty Ash. 
Victims were seen wandering around aimlessly, muttering "fukinell". 
The hurricane decimated the area causing almost £30 worth of damage.
Several priceless collections of mementos from Majorca and the Costa Del Sol were damaged beyond repair. Three areas of historic burnt out cars were disturbed.

Many locals were woken well before their Giros arrived.

Liverpool FM reported that hundreds of residents were confused and bewildered and were still trying to come to terms with the fact that something interesting had happened in Liverpool .

One resident - Tracy Sharon Smith, a 15-year-old mother of 5 said, "It was such a shock, my little Chardonnay-Mercedes came running into my bedroom crying. My youngest two, Tyler-Morgan and Victoria-Storm slept through it all. I was still shaking when I was skinning up and watching Jeremy Kyle the next morning." 
Apparently looting, muggings and car crime were unaffected and carried on as normal.

The British Red Cross has so far managed to ship 4,000 crates of Special Brew to the area to help the stricken locals.
Rescue workers are still searching through the rubble and have found large quantities of personal belongings, including benefit books, jewellery from Ratners and Bone China from the Pound shop.

HOW CAN YOU HELP?

This appeal is to raise money for food and clothing parcels for those unfortunate enough to be caught up in this disaster. Clothing is most sought after - items most needed include:
Fila or Burberry baseball caps
Kappa tracksuit tops (his and hers)
Shell suits (female)
White stilettos 
White sport socks
Rockport boots
Any other items usually sold in Primark.
Food parcels may be harder to come by but are needed all the same.
Required foodstuffs include: 
Microwave meals
Tins of baked beans
KFC
Ice cream
Cans of Special Brew.
22p buys a biro for filling in the compensation forms
£2 buys chips, crisps and blue fizzy drinks for a family of nine
£5 buys **** and a lighter to calm the nerves of those affected.

**BREAKING NEWS**
Rescue workers found a girl in the rubble smothered in raspberry alco-pop and were worried she had been badly cut... 
"Where are you bleeding from?" they asked,
"Bootle" said the girl, wot's that gotta do wi yow?"

(I'm from near Liverpool, so don't tell me it's not PC. You've gorra have a sensa huma if you come from Liverpool)


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

R.Marquez said:


> My mystery/suspense books have humor and are a fun read . . .





Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I think there should be a genre 'light-hearted'.


I wonder if "fun read" or "light-hearted" might be more informative to readers than something like "hilarious."

Humor is subjective and people find different things "laugh out loud" funny. Seems to me that "hilarious" sets the bar too high. That is, you might read something and find it hilarious, while I may read it and find it funny but not so funny that I would consider it hilarious, or vice versa.

But, most of us could probably agree on whether something was a "fun read" or a "light-hearted" read. That better manages what are rather subjective expectations. If I read something described as "hilarious" and find it mildly entertaining but not laugh out loud funny, I would probably be disappointed in it. On the flip side, if I read something described as a "fun read" or "light-hearted" and find it mildly entertaining, it's met my expectations and, if I find it hilarious, it's exceeded my expectations. Those latter two cases, in my opinion, being preferable to the first case. In the first example, I might not pick up another book from that author, whereas in the latter two cases, I likely would.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> I wonder if "fun read" or "light-hearted" might be more informative to readers than something like "hilarious."
> 
> Humor is subjective and people find different things "laugh out loud" funny. Seems to me that "hilarious" sets the bar too high. That is, you might read something and find it hilarious, while I may read it and find it funny but not so funny that I would consider it hilarious, or vice versa.
> 
> But, most of us could probably agree on whether something was a "fun read" or a "light-hearted" read. That better manages what are rather subjective expectations. If I read something described as "hilarious" and find it mildly entertaining but not laugh out loud funny, I would probably be disappointed in it. On the flip side, if I read something described as a "fun read" or "light-hearted" and find it mildly entertaining, it's met my expectations and, if I find it hilarious, it's exceeded my expectations. Those latter two cases, in my opinion, being preferable to the first case. In the first example, I might not pick up another book from that author, whereas in the latter two cases, I likely would.


I agree with this, but I'm still wondering if BookBub are correct in saying that blurbs with 'hilarious' get more clicks  .


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

I think the new guy makes some good points.

So what you're saying, in encapsulated form is:

The Brits tend to just go, and let the audience get what they get. The audience is basically on their own.

The Americans tend to go as slow as they assume the slowest member of the audience is. The audience is basically spoon-fed.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Jan, your Liverpool Hurricane Appeal made me snort.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> So what you're saying, in encapsulated form is:
> 
> The Brits tend to just go, and let the audience get what they get. The audience is basically on their own.
> 
> The Americans tend to go as slow as they assume the slowest member of the audience is. The audience is basically spoon-fed.


So, is it BBC-American when you mix the two?


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## M. Sid Kelly (Oct 24, 2013)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I think the new guy makes some good points.
> 
> So what you're saying, in encapsulated form is:
> 
> ...


***

Yup, that's a big part of it. I think the British are more willing to trust the audience.

I just read the Wikipedia page on British humor and then Ricky Gervais' take on British vs American humor. I'd also seen the Stephen Fry interview linked earlier in the thread. But their definitions/comparisons don't have much to do with what I'm trying to get at.

Here's Ricky Gervais: http://ideas.time.com/2011/11/09/the-difference-between-american-and-british-humour/

Their answers seem to be more about the themes and modes - use of sarcasm, irony, negativity, love of the failures in society, etc. Of course, I agree that these things are all very British, but I think the comparisons are somehow beating around the bush.

Something Ricky Gervais said made me realize that the British are incapable of saying exactly what the difference is because it would seem too much like bragging.

Psst! Hey British, you need an American to say it. I'm really good at this bragging thing, so listen up! Your humor is better than American humor. It's okay. You can say it out load. Your best humor is like jazz. And American humor rarely gets more sophisticated than disco - some is very good disco, but...

I'm sure plenty of your humorous output is just as simple as most American product. When what I consider to be the best British humor is put up against my idea of the best American humor, there's a key difference that I don't think has anything to do with modes or themes. It has more to do with sophistication, I think.

For example, when Americans do absurdity, they usually skip the subtlety - it's purely whacky. British humor loves a good bit of absurdity, but it doesn't get in the way of subtlety. There are layers or rhythms or even unsaid things that the audience has to work out for themselves. I can listen to John Coltrane over and over and not get bored because there are sophisticated elements that I'm sure I'll never understand. Some, but not all, British humor is played like jazz. Mainstream American humor never seems to take it to that level.

Someone in an earlier post mentioned the value of burying the jokes. I agree. By all means, make the audience dig out the jokes! It makes every joke better. Maybe that's all the difference there is.

Okay, I'm off to watch an Eddie Izzard DVD for further research.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

M. Sid Kelly said:


> ***
> 
> Yup, that's a big part of it. I think the British are more willing to trust the audience.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's just a state of mind. I'm British, I used to do stand up (don't get excited, I wasn't very good at it) and I now sit down and write funny books (I hope they're funny). Maybe it's in the nature of an American comic to look to please their audience. Whereas sometimes, I think a lot of British comics, write their material to please themselves and if anyone else laughs that's gravy. As a result you get more jokes in, but some are going to be really obscure. I'm projecting a bit here, because I'm going on what I do, myself. Personally, if a joke tickles me I'll put it in, even if I think only one reader in 10,000 is going to get it because... Oh I dunno, probably because of that lovely in jokey feeling I get as a reader when I stumble across someone else's joke and think, 'wow, I bet only s/he and I get that.' So I think sometimes, British humour contains a lot of stuff that the comic has put in for the sheer hell of it, because it makes them laugh.

I'm probably talking bollocks, but it's a thought.

Cheers

MTM


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## M. Sid Kelly (Oct 24, 2013)

M T McGuire said:


> So I think sometimes, British humour contains a lot of stuff that the comic has put in for the sheer hell of it, because it makes them laugh.
> MTM


That could explain a lot. Given the writer's deep familiarity with the material, it's natural that they are going make obscure connections that would not occur to most readers. The British comedian is more likely to leave it in, and the American is possibly too concerned about the giggle per syllable rate...?

I keep going back to Eddie Izzard (because I think he's the best thing I've come across recently). But I like the way he pantomimes writing in a notebook when a joke falls flat - though it got a little embarrassing to me when he played my podunk California town. Because he seems to be overt about fine tuning, I think he's more willing to risk the obscure.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

M. Sid Kelly said:


> That could explain a lot. Given the writer's deep familiarity with the material, it's natural that they are going make obscure connections that would not occur to most readers. The British comedian is more likely to leave it in, and the American is possibly too concerned about the giggle per syllable rate...?
> 
> I keep going back to Eddie Izzard (because I think he's the best thing I've come across recently). But I like the way he pantomimes writing in a notebook when a joke falls flat - though it got a little embarrassing to me when he played my podunk California town. Because he seems to be overt about fine tuning, I think he's more willing to risk the obscure.


He is a great example though, because he's so eccentric and because he seems to do exactly that. Then, in books you have Fforde and Rankin who do that and Pratchett very much in the early stuff. You have shows like Little Britain, the Fast Show and Not the Nine O'Clock news going way back And the political ones like Mock The Week are full of it.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I think the Brits have a wonderful capacity for laughing at themselves, and the sitcoms often have characters that viewers can recognise. Most of the sitcoms I remember, such as Dad's Army (my Dad used to chortle because he was in the Home Guard and said it was typical in many ways) Steptoe and Son, Hancock's Half Hour, Bread, Blackadder etc made us laugh at ourselves. 
My friend recently came over to visit me (after 40 years of persuasion  ) and brought DVDs of Mrs Brown's Boys. I can watch them over and over and still laugh (especially the condom sketch, which I've got on YouTube but don't know how to insert  )


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I think the Brits have a wonderful capacity for laughing at themselves, and the sitcoms often have characters that viewers can recognise. Most of the sitcoms I remember, such as Dad's Army (my Dad used to chortle because he was in the Home Guard and said it was typical in many ways) Steptoe and Son, Hancock's Half Hour, Bread, Blackadder etc made us laugh at ourselves.
> My friend recently came over to visit me (after 40 years of persuasion ) and brought DVDs of Mrs Brown's Boys. I can watch them over and over and still laugh (especially the condom sketch, which I've got on YouTube but don't know how to insert )


Another excellent point there. I have to say, I can still recite vast tracts of Blackadder, Not the Nine O'Clock News and the precious bits of Not Only but Also that are left to us by rote. I think that it is possible that the Australians could have given us Jilted John - of Gordon is a Moron fame - but I'm not sure. There is definitely a self depreciating side to our wit which means we never take things too seriously and it might also be why we view so much of politics with scepticism.

Cheers

MTM


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## LinaG (Jun 18, 2012)

I think M. Sid Kelly (aka "The New Guy") has pretty much nailed it. I also think this willingness to 'trust the audience to get it' happens in British mysteries (esp. on TV)  In the American mystery/crime show there is always a scene where the criminal confesses to the detective and the entire puzzle is explained from beginning to end, including motive. Weirdly, although we are a ridiculously litigious society there is rarely a lawyer present.

"I killed him with a Popsicle and stuffed him in the garbage chute because I couldn't get him down the stairs, and I tripped and lost my car key. I came back to look for it but…"

I often find British shows end, and then you think about them for a while and put some pieces together for yourself. The answer is there (usually) but it just hasn't been stated. My husband always asks, "what about the…"

I find that people talk about a Monty Python skit for a lot longer than a SNL skit. I can barely watch SNL. The skits go on too long and hitting a single joke on the head with a hammer doesn't make it more amusing.

Interesting.  I love the Stephen Fry interview by the way.  Quite frankly I love Stephen Fry. 

Thanks for great example.

So what about this thing Americans call "Canadian Humor?"  Anybody?


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Thought I'd post my new custom cover for the first in my Rafferty & Llewellyn mystery series. I love it. You can see the current cover in my sig.

It's by Nicole of covershotcreations. What do you think?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

hardnutt said:


> Thought I'd post my new custom cover for the first in my Rafferty & Llewellyn mystery series. I love it. You can see the current cover in my sig.
> 
> It's by Nicole of covershotcreations. What do you think?


Looks good, but hope the jacket doesn't get mistaken for BDSM erotica like my original cover for With the Headmaster's Approval


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Looks good, but hope the jacket doesn't get mistaken for BDSM erotica like my original cover for With the Headmaster's Approval


Oh God, Jan, don't say that! I remember all the kerfuffle over your cover. I actually preferred your original cover to your new one (sorry), and never thought of putting a naughty connotation on it. But then I'm one of life's innocents. Raunchy lot on here. Learning all the time.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

M. Sid Kelly said:


> For example, when Americans do absurdity, they usually skip the subtlety -- it's purely whacky. British humor loves a good bit of absurdity, but it doesn't get in the way of subtlety. There are layers or rhythms or even unsaid things that the audience has to work out for themselves. I can listen to John Coltrane over and over and not get bored because there are sophisticated elements that I'm sure I'll never understand. Some, but not all, British humor is played like jazz. Mainstream American humor never seems to take it to that level.
> 
> Someone in an earlier post mentioned the value of burying the jokes. I agree. By all means, make the audience dig out the jokes! It makes every joke better. Maybe that's all the difference there is.
> 
> Okay, I'm off to watch an Eddie Izzard DVD for further research.


That's tough.

There's also a distinct level of sophistication in regards to education and references. An American comedian would think it's the height of sophistication to build an entire bit around making a single reference to some great literary work like Peanuts, whilst a Brit would pepper a dozen references to Proust, Shakespeare, and Chaucer in the set up to a joke about his knob.

There's also a tendency for false subtlety in American humor. For example, an actor will make some blindingly obvious innuendo then turn to the camera waggle their eyebrows or smirk whilst the other characters are confused by the remark or don't even notice an innuendo was made. So, by comparison, American humor is about as subtle as an enema.



hardnutt said:


> Thought I'd post my new custom cover for the first in my Rafferty & Llewellyn mystery series. I love it. You can see the current cover in my sig.
> 
> It's by Nicole of covershotcreations. What do you think?


Great cover. Not sure about the mini logo that mirrors the cover in the upper right. Seems recursive.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

hardnutt said:


> Oh God, Jan, don't say that! I remember all the kerfuffle over your cover. I actually preferred your original cover to your new one (sorry), and never thought of putting a naughty connotation on it. But then I'm one of life's innocents. Raunchy lot on here. Learning all the time.


Yes, I think there are a lot of us innocents around . I loved the original cover and even the local bookshop manager was shocked when I told her the reason I was getting a new cover


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

I think we're being a bit tough on our trans-Atlantic cousins- Americans know perfectly well what irony is. They just don't use it as the default setting for everyday conversation. Speaking personally, I would echo a previous post about writing primarily for yourself. That can lead to self-indulgence and in-jokes but I think once you try & second-guess what someone else finds funny, you're lost. 
Eddie Izzard, Dylan Moran, Jack Dee, Stewart Lee- these are my go-to guys for stand-up inspiration but I also really like Jim Jefferies- when he goes after a group/subject, there's no-one to touch him. His routine on gun-control is well worth a look & you'll see what I mean.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Reginald


Scott Pixello said:


> I think we're being a bit tough on our trans-Atlantic cousins- Americans know perfectly well what irony is. They just don't use it as the default setting for everyday conversation. Speaking personally, I would echo a previous post about writing primarily for yourself. That can lead to self-indulgence and in-jokes but I think once you try & second-guess what someone else finds funny, you're lost.
> Eddie Izzard, Dylan Moran, Jack Dee, Stewart Lee- these are my go-to guys for stand-up inspiration but I also really like Jim Jefferies- when he goes after a group/subject, there's no-one to touch him. His routine on gun-control is well worth a look & you'll see what I mean.


Reginald D Hunter. Definitely way ironic. And from the Deep South. 

Being a bit tangential, on the in joke front, there's a bit in one of Pratchett's books where he talks about a scientist who has an apple fall on his head... Or not... It's clearly a nod to Isaac Newton. He calls the scientist Woolsthorpe, though, which is the name of Newton's house. Well obscure and I doubt many people would get it unless they'd been researching Newton or, like me, we're related to someone who was.

Cheers

MTM


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

Interesting thread! I have to write with humor, or there's no joy in it for me. However, I don't call them comic romances or even romantic comedies because that's not its main purpose/theme. I did put humor and humorous in my keywords, and I tried to show in the blurb, title, and cover that it has a light-hearted feel to them... But humor, as others have said, is so subjective. I've found in writing contests that I scored either very high, or not high at all, and generally the latter was because they didn't like my style, and that's okay. 

Most of my autobuy authors are on that list because of their humorous writing style: Kevin Hearne, Tessa Dare, Christopher Moore, to name a few, and for re-reads (since I can't buy any more): Jane Austen.

And that's an interesting observation made about American audiences needing to be spoonfed. As a generalization, that's probably true. Related to this: one of my endings isn't spoonfed (for my time travel), the clues are all there scattered throughout and then definitely there in the epilogue, and yet, I've had some reviews complain that I got the ending wrong or that I made a mistake. It was a hard decision for me to make when I went to publish (whether to spell it out or not), and in the end, I decided to trust my readers and on the whole, it's worked.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Yes, I think there are a lot of us innocents around . I loved the original cover and even the local bookshop manager was shocked when I told her the reason I was getting a new cover


Perhaps you could keep the original cover and just change the title?


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Great cover. Not sure about the mini logo that mirrors the cover in the upper right. Seems recursive.


Thanks! I like my mini Rafferty in the series bar. Going to continue with it through the rest of the series. He had a hat to start with, but I thought that made him appear more like a Private Eye. I actually wanted the designer to give him auburn hair, but in the end we just lost the hat.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Steven Hardesty said:


> Um, despite the correctness of everything said here about Brit and Yank attitudes toward humor and our relative cultural abilities to understand humor and spoons and all of that, I'm still puzzled why anyone thinks the Brits have a sense of humor. Yes, they laugh. Yes, they spin complex jokes. Yes, it's funny that they think everyone else in the world is an inferior variety of Martian. But what we Yanks see and think we perceive as British humor isn't. It's sociology. I've lived and worked in Britain. Before we left the States, my wife and I were vast "Fawlty Towers" fans. We thought it a comedy. When we landed in Britain and checked into our first hotel, we were shocked to find that "Fawlty Towers" isn't comedy at all but a documentary, and not half severe enough. The Brits are funny not for their humor but for what they are without realizing what they are. I like 'em anyway.


Fawlty Towers is certainly a semi-documentary of most of our experiences, be it in hotels, shops or elsewhere. For some reason, we Brits don't seem to 'do' service.

But it still makes me laugh.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Steven Hardesty said:


> Um, despite the correctness of everything said here about Brit and Yank attitudes toward humor and our relative cultural abilities to understand humor and spoons and all of that, I'm still puzzled why anyone thinks the Brits have a sense of humor. Yes, they laugh. Yes, they spin complex jokes. Yes, it's funny that they think everyone else in the world is an inferior variety of Martian. But what we Yanks see and think we perceive as British humor isn't. It's sociology. I've lived and worked in Britain. Before we left the States, my wife and I were vast "Fawlty Towers" fans. We thought it a comedy. When we landed in Britain and checked into our first hotel, we were shocked to find that "Fawlty Towers" isn't comedy at all but a documentary, and not half severe enough. The Brits are funny not for their humor but for what they are without realizing what they are. I like 'em anyway.


That's absolutely true. A lot of British comedy is, indeed, documentary tweaked just the tiniest tad... it really doesn't take much to go from every day British to absurd... if you see what I mean. As for the Martians thing, I suspect that's because we're too stupid to see that other nations are OK with us sending up ourselves but not OK with us doing it to them. So sorry if we do seem snooty. I doubt many of us mean it, we're just a bit crap.

Cheers

MTM


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## purplesmurf (Mar 20, 2012)

My husband's stuff is all fantasy with comedic elements, and some reviewers have described his stuff as Pratchettesk. It's written for younger kids, middle grade level, but suitable for adults too as some of the jokes will not be fully understood by the little ones.


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

Steven Hardesty said:


> Um, despite the correctness of everything said here about Brit and Yank attitudes toward humor and our relative cultural abilities to understand humor and spoons and all of that, I'm still puzzled why anyone thinks the Brits have a sense of humor. Yes, they laugh. Yes, they spin complex jokes. Yes, it's funny that they think everyone else in the world is an inferior variety of Martian. But what we Yanks see and think we perceive as British humor isn't. It's sociology. I've lived and worked in Britain. Before we left the States, my wife and I were vast "Fawlty Towers" fans. We thought it a comedy. When we landed in Britain and checked into our first hotel, we were shocked to find that "Fawlty Towers" isn't comedy at all but a documentary, and not half severe enough. The Brits are funny not for their humor but for what they are without realizing what they are. I like 'em anyway.


You could probably say that about comedy in general--a lot of it is about showing the absurd in our normal life. Seinfeld could've been a documentary of New Yorkers, after all...


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

purplesmurf said:


> My husband's stuff is all fantasy with comedic elements, and some reviewers have described his stuff as Pratchettesk. It's written for younger kids, middle grade level, but suitable for adults too as some of the jokes will not be fully understood by the little ones.


I had this lovely review for my Leon Chameleon children's book from a 9 yrs old, which echoes that humour can appeal to children and adults.

"At the age of nine I found the story easy to read and very funny too. My mother read it to my younger brother and laughed a lot as the author, she says, has written the book in a way that makes it funny for parents to read."
Rebecca van Zyl (9) - Time Out, Daily News.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

My vampire/hockey novella SUDDEN DEATH OVERTIME has received a great deal of good reviews and many of them talk about the humor of the story.



"Mr Vernon does dark, weird, disturbing humor like nobody else I've ever read." - Amazon review

"I laughed my bum off." - Amazon review

"If you like hockey, vampires, horror, dark humor, and you don't mind coarse language, then you will like this book." - Amazon review

To me, humor is a little like breathing. It is something that we human beings use to cope with the stress of day-to-day living. To try and write a novel WITHOUT humor is a little like trying to write a novel without color. It is a part of our genetic makeup.

If you want to name a few writers who really do it well - try Carl Hiassen, Christopher Moore, Joe Lansdale, Jeff Strand, Robert Parker, A. Lee Martinez, J.A. Konrath, Terry Pratchett, Piers Anthony...to name a few.


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## Karen Mead (Jul 2, 2012)

I just published my first comedy piece, _Penguin of Fortune_; it's a parody of urban fantasy novels. Instead of having a badass werewolf/witch/whatever bounty hunter, I have a badass, delusional were penguin. Here's the cover:










Feels weird to say that this is my "first" comedy, since I've been writing funny things (or trying to) for most of my life. But this is the first comedy I've officially put out as an ebook, so we'll see. I'm mainly a fantasy author, but writing this was so fun, I might end up writing more comedy/parody stuff 

My fantasy books have some humor in them, but really, there are few things as satisfying as just writing off-the-wall stuff meant to make people laugh.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

So here I am, doing a Google search for "funniest novels" and there's this little scroll at the top with a bunch of books. Great, I can just check which of those obvious choices I haven't read yet and maybe get something new. So I'm scrolling... and I'm scrolling... and suddenly I'm at the end of the list and I notice that they have H.G. Wells' _War of the Worlds_ listed (I'm totes doing a satire / sendup of that in the vein of _Pride and Prejudice and Zombies_, don't you lot steal that idea). Now, aside from my yet to be started but obviously brilliant rendition of that timeless classic, does anyone else know WTF _War of the Worlds_ is doing listed in a search for funny books? Maybe the recent movie remakes are so bad they think the source material is a comedy or something? Anyone? Bueller?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Well. Fuck.

Terry Pratchett has died.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> So here I am, doing a Google search for "funniest novels" and there's this little scroll at the top with a bunch of books. Great, I can just check which of those obvious choices I haven't read yet and maybe get something new. So I'm scrolling... and I'm scrolling... and suddenly I'm at the end of the list and I notice that they have H.G. Wells' _War of the Worlds_ listed (I'm totes doing a satire / sendup of that in the vein of _Pride and Prejudice and Zombies_, don't you lot steal that idea). Now, aside from my yet to be started but obviously brilliant rendition of that timeless classic, does anyone else know WTF _War of the Worlds_ is doing listed in a search for funny books? Maybe the recent movie remakes are so bad they think the source material is a comedy or something? Anyone? Bueller?


There's one sentence that hasn't aged well in War of the Worlds. It even amused me when I first read it as a 12 year old. It reads something like: "But so alarmed was he by my wild appearance - my hat had fallen off in the pit - that he..."

There's a similar line in The Invisible Man where a hatless man is viewed as an obvious symbol of mankind reverting to barbarism.

Oh, and the fact that the Invisible Man spends a lot of time talking about how the food he eats is visible in his stomach until it's "absorbed" into his system, but neglects to mention whether he does invisible poos as a result of this process.

Well, it makes me laugh.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

alawston said:


> There's one sentence that hasn't aged well in War of the Worlds. It even amused me when I first read it as a 12 year old. It reads something like: "But so alarmed was he by my wild appearance - my hat had fallen off in the pit - that he..."
> 
> There's a similar line in The Invisible Man where a hatless man is viewed as an obvious symbol of mankind reverting to barbarism.
> 
> ...


Though I can't fault you for the attempt, I'm not sure that qualifies. Not for me at least.

Anyone else go on a reading binge of comic fantasy stuff after the new of Sir Terry? I had just started a Tom Holt the night before so I decided to keep with it.


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## Dan Van Oss (Dec 29, 2014)

daringnovelist said:


> I really think great humor writing that doesn't fit nicely into another niche will often have a slow job finding its audience, but when it does, it can really break out. Then the author becomes his/her own brand/genre.


There's a lot of wisdom in this. Just thinking of authors like Douglas Adams or Dave Barry, who don't necessarily write in a particular niche (Adams did Sci-Fi as well as "Dirk Gently" and Barry does everything from politics to babies, etc.). I'm wondering if a good humor writer should be able to write a product description for a toothpick or something and somehow make it funny.

Reading this thread, I'm also going to look for categories other than "Humor" for the books, and I'm also working on changing the book descriptions from how "hilarious" it is to more of what the topic is and how it relates to the reader.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Dan Van Oss said:


> There's a lot of wisdom in this. Just thinking of authors like Douglas Adams or Dave Barry, who don't necessarily write in a particular niche (Adams did Sci-Fi as well as "Dirk Gently" and Barry does everything from politics to babies, etc.). I'm wondering if a good humor writer should be able to write a product description for a toothpick or something and somehow make it funny.
> 
> Reading this thread, I'm also going to look for categories other than "Humor" for the books, and I'm also working on changing the book descriptions from how "hilarious" it is to more of what the topic is and how it relates to the reader.


I *added *'hilarious' to my blurb after reading this.

http://insights.bookbub.com/test-results-to-help-you-market-your-ebook/

4) Descriptive Language

It stands to reason that punchy, exciting word choice is a must for an effective blurb, but we weren't sure how much our readers agreed. When we tested this hypothesis, the results were surprising even to us, as the addition of just one key word consistently drove better response rates. In one case, placing the word "hilarious" near the beginning of a blurb resulted in almost 4,000 more clicks.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Dan Van Oss said:


> There's a lot of wisdom in this. Just thinking of authors like Douglas Adams or Dave Barry, who don't necessarily write in a particular niche (Adams did Sci-Fi as well as "Dirk Gently" and Barry does everything from politics to babies, etc.).


I don't necessarily disagree with you (though I would say their niche is humor), but the particulars of those two examples might cut against your argument.

Douglas Adams had a writing credit for _Monty Python_ before BBC radio picked up _Hitchhiker's_ as a weekly radio show in 1978, he wrote a Doctor Who story that aired in 1978. The first novel was published in 1979 a year that saw him become the script editor for Doctor Who as well as the airing of his second Doctor Who story. He was a rather well known figure in England at the time his book was published. When he went to his first signing the streets were so flooded with people that he was late to his own signing.

Dave Barry was a nationally syndicated humor columnist for years before he had any published books, and most of those are simply reprints of his columns. Erma Bombeck, Russell Baker, P.J. O'Rourke, Art Buchwald, and many others do exactly the same thing.

So neither one is really a case of somehow organically and slowly growing their market over time _with the release of books_, rather both men had _already built their brands before releasing books_.



> I'm wondering if a good humor writer should be able to write a product description for a toothpick or something and somehow make it funny.


Maybe, yeah.


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## ibizwiz (Dec 25, 2014)

Before this lurker recommends three works that taught me many lessons about comic expression, let me thank the OP and the many contributors to this stupendous thread. It was/is incredibly timely: we have one new erotic comedy 33K novella in our new series up, with the 2nd volume in final edit, and the 3rd scheduled for early May. We have a new 12K short, Part One of a three part erotic romance comedy in final edit, with plans to publish by 15 April. That is to be followed (if performance warrants) by *seven* additional 3-part erom comedies through the remainder of the year, all reinforcing the "main" six-volume novella series, as your gurus here advise. All these are heavily comedic erotica, set in a "world", borrowing from the many SF and future history genres. Most salient: our wacky "world" makes its first appearance in Vol 2 of the novella series, the end of this month - - after that, we're committed to this "world"-view, through at least four more novellas.

We've absorbed hundreds and hundreds of wise posts in dozens of KBoards threads on how to launch and promote all this side-splitting stuff. We see that we must build our own channels to help people "discover" our wonderful lead character and her story, not simply rely on promo-assisted Amazon search. We are acting accordingly. THANK YOU ALL. Coming from a long-time management consultant, marketing boss, and web maven, you folks are *terrific*! I wanted to say that yesterday, but couldn't take the chance that most would think I was praising tongue in geek.

<Sigh>

Now, fast forward to the end of this amazing comedy thread. Your collective experience and wisdom with "funny" suggests we're writing about an erotic Atlantis, and we'll be sinking below the waves by about November.

Gee, members of the WCafe, *thanks*!

Fortunately, we're early in the game, and can modify the entire 100 page plan. We can chuck it. We can instead create a BDSM-D/s series of shorts in KU and use the borrow proceeds to pay a ghost writer to pen "Paying by the Word -- How I Escaped the Comedic Kiss of Death and Denied the Devil His Below-the-Belly Laugh by Self-Immolation on a Pile of 'Fifty Shades of Funny' Remainders".

Oh, in the name of trans-Atlantic harmony: our humor is thoroughly saturated with human, that is to say, evolved Chimpanzee, humour and humor, half and half, right in the middle of British and American, which explains why it is sure to sink to the bottom. Call it the Comedy of Eros school, wherein the first error was to write the stuff, apparently.

My three books every writer of funny should read:

1 "Lolita" - Vladimir Nabokov

Those who dismiss this great book as pedophilic smut that must be read with one hand deny themselves one of the most entertaining, deeply satirical, literate, intellectually satisfying comedic experiences available. There is actually just one page that is in any true sense "erotic", and that scene keeps both participants clothed!

Here's the edition writers should get:
http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Lolita-Revised-Updated-ebook/dp/B004KABE2Y/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427991333&sr=1-3&keywords=LOLITA

2 "JR" - William Gaddis

One of those deeply funny satirical (as Lolita is deeply satirical) books, not at all prurient, unless one concurs that American-inspired commercialism is mostly obscene, and our financial class consists mostly of legally-condoned economic rapists. It's sharply-tongued and inventive as hell, but Gaddis' real innovation was in his use of language, pace, and dimension. It is a *must* in this old man's view for any one who desires to master comedic and scenario English.

http://www.amazon.com/JR-William-Gaddis/dp/1843541653

3 "World's End" - TC BOYLE

Start with that first voyage, but be prepared for a comedic trip along an entire shelf of funny books.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=T%20C%20BOYLE

Thanks again! You've collectively proven that a large group *can* teach an old dog a whole bunch of new tricks.

Peace and Lust


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## Dan Van Oss (Dec 29, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with you (though I would say their niche is humor), but the particulars of those two examples might cut against your argument.
> 
> Douglas Adams had a writing credit for _Monty Python_ before BBC radio picked up _Hitchhiker's_ as a weekly radio show in 1978, he wrote a Doctor Who story that aired in 1978. The first novel was published in 1979 a year that saw him become the script editor for Doctor Who as well as the airing of his second Doctor Who story. He was a rather well known figure in England at the time his book was published. When he went to his first signing the streets were so flooded with people that he was late to his own signing.
> 
> ...


Good point; makes me wonder if we've seen a similarly successful humor writer who's grown their base via ebooks without having an existing platform (Cracked, newspaper column, TV show, etc.). I would say it's still possible to grow that kind of visibility through multiple venues (podcasts, audiobooks, blogs?), but would definitely take time.


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## Steve Margolis (Mar 31, 2015)

I like funny books. I just wrote my first. I have a new respect for authors who can make me laugh. Being funny in-person is one thing; being funny on the page is a whole different ball game. 
I do have my reading standards though.  
I expect the book to be interesting and structured correctly. If it's funny on top of that, all the better.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Then, I sent out my first newsletter this past week, which may or may not have resulted in a sale. The sale could have been a result or it could have been coincidental.


Thought this might benefit from an update. Thus far, I have sent out four newsletters. These were sent out on January 28th, February 13th, March 17th and April 1st.

Other than after the January issue, where the sale may have been and quite likely was entirely coincidental, the effect on sales seems to be negligible to non-existent. Granted, I have not released any new books, but I doubt it is because they've purchased them all already, given that it, best I can tell, people tend to buy one book and then none of the others. Also, I ran a free promo for one of the books on February 14th and even mentioning that in my mailing on the 13th appears to have had no effect whatsoever.

In the meantime, at the suggestion of a KBer, I began offering my newsletters on the Kindle. The first issue went live on March 21st, and the second on April 1st (though, technically, it didn't go live until early this morning and, despite that, Amazon still listed its publication date as March 31st despite not even being uploaded until April 1st). Sales of it have been unremarkable. On the other hand, since March 21st, there seems to be an inexplicable and sudden increase in sales and borrows of one of my other books. Those sales cannot be related to newsletter sales since the book sales and borrows outnumber the newsletter sales.

Could it be that having more stuff available is raising my overall visibility? No idea. Can't imagine that people would see one of the new uploads, opt not to buy or borrow it but instead look at my other works as opposed to clicking away to see what some other author has.

I'll try to remember to report back on results, or lack thereof, once additional newsletters are available on Kindle.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Steve Margolis said:


> I like funny books. I just wrote my first. I have a new respect for authors who can make me laugh. Being funny in-person is one thing; being funny on the page is a whole different ball game.


One of the difficulties is that different people find different things funny.

That is, if you write a mystery, it's a mystery. A mystery is always going to be about a mystery that needs to be solved. It may be poorly written or it may be wonderfully done, but in either event there is no argument that it's a mystery.

Same with anything else, excepting where people disagree over genre definitions. The bottom line is that anything else conforms to certain definitions. Scifi is always going to be scifi. Fantasy will always be fantasy. And so on. You may like a writer or you may not, but there is little argument about what it is they write.

Humor is a whole other ball of wax. For example, we've probably all been forwarded links or pictures where the forwarder said "This is funny!" or "This is hilarious!" Then we've read them, or given up reading them because, um, yeah, no way you're reading that whole mess, and then asked ourselves if our friend is off their meds, suffering a stroke, drunk, digesting suspicious mushrooms or so on, depending on the friend and what said friend's vices may be. Likewise, we've probably all seen late night talk shows or sitcoms and asked ourselves, "Really? People think _this_ is funny? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?" That can be bad if you try to write funny stuff because if you find it funny and you don't find what other people find funny, perhaps the odds are good that you're not funny after all. Or, perhaps you need to peddle your books in states where certain medicinal herbs have recently been legalized. Or find people in bars not yet too drunk to click a "Buy It Now" button on their Kindle. Or you may need to learn a trade, such as flipping burgers, repairing bicycles or unclogging drains.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> One of the difficulties is that different people find different things funny.


Too true...



> That is, if you write a mystery, it's a mystery. A mystery is always going to be about a mystery that needs to be solved. It may be poorly written or it may be wonderfully done, but in either event there is no argument that it's a mystery.
> 
> Same with anything else, excepting where people disagree over genre definitions. The bottom line is that anything else conforms to certain definitions. Scifi is always going to be scifi. Fantasy will always be fantasy. And so on. You may like a writer or you may not, _*but there is little argument about what it is they write.**_
> 
> Humor is a whole other ball of wax. For example, we've probably all been forwarded links or pictures where the forwarder said "This is funny!" or "This is hilarious!" Then we've read them


Hang on.

I don't think that comparison holds, at all. You're going from "a mystery is a mystery" to "it's not funny unless you think it's funny". Both may be true, but they're fundamentally different types of things being compared. What is or isn't a mystery is objectively defined by the presence of particular plot elements that typically include at least one murder and the solving of that murder. What is or isn't funny is a completely subjective judgement on a given piece, that's based on whether the reader gets the joke and whether they deem that kind of joke funny. Which would bring up the different styles of humor (black, slapstick, romcom, sitcom... which would correlate to the various subgenres of fantasy, science fiction, and mystery...) and a given reader's varying degree of enjoyment of those subgenres.

So despite using the word "humor" to start the sentence you're really talking about what's funny. More properly, to me at least, it would be a comparison between "mystery" and "comedy". Both are _genres_ with relatively objective definitions. Whether a given reader enjoys the mystery is completely distinct from whether the piece itself actually is defined as a mystery. So too with comedy and a given reader thinking the piece was funny. Their finding it funny or not is entirely subjective and has no real effect on the objective definition of the genre of the piece.

(This is probably why most advice you hear from comic novelists is to make the story strong enough to stand on its own without the funny. So even if the reader doesn't laugh, they still read a well-written story.)

Well-done, well-written, engaging, mysterious, funny... all of those things are judgements from the reader's point-of-view which don't really affect the genre the writer wrote. The writer might have tried to do a page-turning murder mystery but entirely failed at that task, so it would be a badly done mystery, but that given reader's negative reaction to the work doesn't negate that it's a mystery. So too with comedy. A reader not finding it funny doesn't negate that it is a comedy. It's just that that given reader didn't find it funny.

The trouble comes in when people confuse the subjective opinion with objective fact. The common complaint in negative reviews of comedy works is some version of "It is not funny." A statement of objective fact rather than a statement of subjective opinion. "I did not find this funny." The mystery equivalent of this is some version of "Figured out who the murderer was by page two", i.e. "There was no mystery to me".

(Sorry, mainlining some Robert Anton Wilson today.)

Humor is subjective. *shrug*

* Ha! Don't take that sentiment to a science fiction forum. They argue constantly about whether something is science fiction or not. *Constantly*.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

Saying, "This wasn't a humor book because I didn't find it funny," is like saying, "This wasn't a mystery book because I figured out the killer's identity in chapter 2." Having an identifiable genre and being a well-done entry in that genre are two different things.

I'll completely agree that humor is more subjective than most. If readers are having this kind of reaction, however, maybe it's time to re-evaluate your choice of genre:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMinUMCdc0g


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

In other comedy news two more series of Red Dwarf were announced yesterday. That does this old smeg-head's heart good. 

And speaking of Red Dwarf--and comic fiction--readers could do a whole lot worse than picking up the four Red Dwarf books by Grant Naylor, Rob Grant, and Doug Naylor.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Just bumping this thread as I have put my first book up for pre-order (see sig), and was wondering how the comedy/humour/humor/funny/light hearted etc etc authors were getting on?

Is it still a hard sell?!


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I think it's still a relatively hard sell, but all things are relative. I get the sense that readers need a bit more assurance that a "humour" novel/story is going to be funny, compared to the assurance a reader might need to take a punt on a thriller or a police procedural. And I think the only way you can give that assurance is through having a few books under your belt with solid reviews.

So really, it's the same curve that writers face in other genres - put out a few books to give readers a bit of name recognition and confidence, and keep plugging away. It might be a more challenging curve for humour, but I don't think it's insurmountable.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

alawston said:


> I think it's still a relatively hard sell, but all things are relative. I get the sense that readers need a bit more assurance that a "humour" novel/story is going to be funny, compared to the assurance a reader might need to take a punt on a thriller or a police procedural. And I think the only way you can give that assurance is through having a few books under your belt with solid reviews.
> 
> So really, it's the same curve that writers face in other genres - put out a few books to give readers a bit of name recognition and confidence, and keep plugging away. It might be a more challenging curve for humour, but I don't think it's insurmountable.


Makes sense, thanks. I am actually (currently), only planning on two books that I would definitely call 'humour'. After that I have a mystery series planned that will just have humorous elements. I think I'd struggle to write anything that was deeply serious to be honest!

It's cruised my mind that I should remove all the 'humour' stuff from the description and just class it as straight up SciFi, but I don't want to mislead about what's in it...


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Barnaby Yard said:


> Makes sense, thanks. I am actually (currently), only planning on two books that I would definitely call 'humour'. After that I have a mystery series planned that will just have humorous elements. I think I'd struggle to write anything that was deeply serious to be honest!
> 
> It's cruised my mind that I should remove all the 'humour' stuff from the description and just class it as straight up SciFi, but I don't want to mislead about what's in it...


I have the same problem writing anything deeply serious 

It's probably not worth removing the humour element from your descriptions - the sort of people who want humourless, gritty Sci-Fi are often quite 'insistent' about it...

And you have a very fine cover that suggests humour too. I've pre-ordered, so that's got your humour career off to a start in the UK at least!


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I write what I call "Suspense with a Dash of Humor."  I'm doing okay but as everyone, hope to make some kind of magical leap into the stratosphere. Since that probably won't happen I'll just keep plugging away at it. I agree with what others have said up thread: that the difficult part of writing anything humorous is that humor is so subjective. But then, what isn't?  One thing I've done to try to boost my discoverability is I entered the first book in my new series in Kindle Scout. It just launched yesterday and I'm hovering over it like a hen with one little chick. I know that writing book 2 or even book 5 in my other series would be so much more effective but I - just - can't - stop - stalking my sales page. Sigh...


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## AltMe (May 18, 2015)

I'm also a writer who mixes in the humour. In Space Opera Science Fiction. People have always been telling me I'm a funny person, especially for one liners, even though I don't intend to be. Humour just slots itself into my books, so they tend to go from serious to funny and back again fairly quickly.

One of the joys of writing actually, is when you finish a really funny section, and can laugh out loud as you read it back to yourself.

Regarding the funniest books I've read - hands down goes to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, a trilogy in five parts. In particular, the 3rd book: Life, the Universe and Everything. Douglas Adams. The British tv series was much better than the American movie. The books are much better than either of them.

"In the beginning, the universe was created. Now this has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

alawston said:


> I have the same problem writing anything deeply serious
> 
> It's probably not worth removing the humour element from your descriptions - the sort of people who want humourless, gritty Sci-Fi are often quite 'insistent' about it...
> 
> And you have a very fine cover that suggests humour too. I've pre-ordered, so that's got your humour career off to a start in the UK at least!


Wow! Thank you Andrew! My very first sale/pre-order thing!

I know it wasn't your intention, but I have just reciprocated by buying 'Something Nice'.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

Barnaby Yard said:


> Just bumping this thread as I have put my first book up for pre-order (see sig), and was wondering how the comedy/humour/humor/funny/light hearted etc etc authors were getting on?
> 
> Is it still a hard sell?!


I've had two works finished since April and a third I finished in May. None of them are available on Amazon yet because, from my perspective, it's really not worth the effort to format and upload.

YMMV.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> I've had two works finished since April and a third I finished in May. None of them are available on Amazon yet because, from my perspective, it's really not worth the effort to format and upload.
> 
> YMMV.


Nooo! You must always release them into the wild!


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Barnaby Yard said:


> Wow! Thank you Andrew! My very first sale/pre-order thing!
> 
> I know it wasn't your intention, but I have just reciprocated by buying 'Something Nice'.


Gosh, thanks Barnaby - not my intention at all, but much appreciated, I hope you enjoy my silly stories!


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

So how have all the funny people been?


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## DanielPotter (Aug 24, 2011)

Doing pretty dang well for my snarky first release.  Off Leash isn't straight up humor but when you have a squirrel who likes to light things on fire mayhem tends to happen. Good reviews, daily sales all single digits and not zero.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

I used to devour the bonkers, odd, funny books of Robert Rankin. Checking up on him recently, it's interesting to see that he seems to have gone 'indie' to some extent. Publishing through his own Far Fetched Books line.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Released the first in my comedy trilogy to pretty much no reaction! 😁

The second will be out at the beginning of September and have a promo then so hopefully will give a bit of life to it.

I've crossed genres during the series which seems to be a mistake, but I should have all three out by the end of October so that might help.

I'm actually thinking of moving them all onto YA as they would all fit and Hitchhikers guide was listed in there for a while which is a fit for my series.

Anyone released a YA comedy before?


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## David Bussell (Nov 24, 2014)

I can only guess at why humour is such a maligned genre. Like comedy at the Oscars, it's a category that receives a pitiful lack of respect. It's always seemed so peculiar to me to dismiss laughter, something we all enjoy, as being a thing of small value. Perhaps it's the commitment a book asks of us that makes investing in the genre seem like a gamble. After all, you only need to watch a stand-up comic for a minute or two to know if his/her brand of comedy is for you, but a novel is thought of as a thing of weight and substance that represents a significant chunk of a person's time.

Still, with books being so cheap and easy to come by, I find it hard to understand why the humour genre is so willfully dismissed by critics and readers alike. I even saw the KBoards own Hugh Howey, literary champion and inspiration, recently praising Aziz Ansari's Modern Romance by saying "If I'd known this wasn't a humor book, I would've picked it up earlier". Are funny books really so awful? Is laughter so bad? Why do we equate "good" with "serious"? Personally I'd love to see more authors of the P.G. Wodehouse/Robert Rankin/Terry Pratchett/Douglas Adams mould, and see them thrive.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Totally agree. Pratchett was a genius, as was Wodehouse. Comedy doesn't have to mean cheap laughs and that's all.


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## DanielPotter (Aug 24, 2011)

People love humor in stories but I don't think they want humor to be the point of the story. Rather humor is an aspect of good stories.

Look at the Blurb from the first Xanth book:



> Xanth is an enchanted land where magic rules, a land of centaurs and dragons and basilisks where every citizen has a unique spell to call their own. For Bink of North Village, however, Xanth is no fairy tale. He alone has no magic. And unless he gets some-and fast!-he will be exiled. Forever.
> 
> But the Good Magician Humfrey is convinced that Bink does indeed have magic. In fact, both Beauregard the genie and the magic wall chart insist that Bink has magic as powerful as any possessed by the King, the Good Magician Humfrey, or even the Evil Magician Trent. Be that as it may, no one can fathom the nature of Bink's very special magic. This is even worse than having no magic at all . . . and he still faces exile!


No mention that this is a humorous series. Yet this book launched one of the longest lived series in the known universe.

I haven't been able to find the original back cover blurb for color of magic but look at the orginal cover. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20139/lot/233/

So my Hypothesis is that readers will stay for the humor but they won't come to it first. (With the notable exception if it gets recommended by a friend.)


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

DanielPotter said:


> People love humor in stories but I don't think they want humor to be the point of the story. Rather humor is an aspect of good stories.
> 
> Look at the Blurb from the first Xanth book:
> 
> ...


I think you're right.

Which is one of the reasons I'm considering switching out of the humour category.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Haven't read through all the posts yet, but to respond to the original questions (which has been answered many times over) yup, comedy writing/humor is a huge market and a fun one to be in!  I sell more of my Sedona Humor cozies than I do my UF series--and I got into the UF market when it was still hot.  The cozy series has remained popular while the UF market has cooled somewhat.  I love many of the authors mentioned in the first post!!!


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

Humor plays a huge role in my writing but I only mention in passing that my stuff is funny if I mention it at all. Humor is so subjective I know that someone, somewhere, is going to argue with me, maybe even attack my work, just because our tastes don't mesh.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Humor as a stand-alone genre or as the major component of a book seems to be a really tiny niche. Some here are selling books by doing just that, and good for you, but it seems like a far better idea to use humor as a smaller or secondary part of another genre, the comic mystery as an example.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

> I can only guess at why humour is such a maligned genre. Like comedy at the Oscars, it's a category that receives a pitiful lack of respect. It's always seemed so peculiar to me to dismiss laughter, something we all enjoy, as being a thing of small value. Perhaps it's the commitment a book asks of us that makes investing in the genre seem like a gamble. After all, you only need to watch a stand-up comic for a minute or two to know if his/her brand of comedy is for you, but a novel is thought of as a thing of weight and substance that represents a significant chunk of a person's time.
> 
> Still, with books being so cheap and easy to come by, I find it hard to understand why the humour genre is so willfully dismissed by critics and readers alike. I even saw the KBoards own Hugh Howey, literary champion and inspiration, recently praising Aziz Ansari's Modern Romance by saying "If I'd known this wasn't a humor book, I would've picked it up earlier". Are funny books really so awful? Is laughter so bad? Why do we equate "good" with "serious"? Personally I'd love to see more authors of the P.G. Wodehouse/Robert Rankin/Terry Pratchett/Douglas Adams mould, and see them thrive.


I think part of it is that humor is so divisive. Everyone has different tastes in comedy, so if humor is a major focus, you're fracturing your audience. Some people just aren't going to appreciate the humor for whatever reason. Even if you're legitimately funny and doing everything right, there are going to be people who have a different sense of humor.

This is fresh in my mind because a review I recently received on one of my comic fantasies. To paraphrase, he would have liked it except for those meddlesome jokes. He didn't find me funny, and that brought the book down for him. It's unfortunate, but that's the risk you take with comedy.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Humor as a stand-alone genre or as the major component of a book seems to be a really tiny niche. Some here are selling books by doing just that, and good for you, but it seems like a far better idea to use humor as a smaller or secondary part of another genre, the comic mystery as an example.


I think this is true. I have noticed some of the best sellers in my category of nonfiction are the books that contain a healthy dose of humor. The same has been true for my own books. Those I sprinkled with humor sell better than than those I didn't. For me, it's hard to write a serious book. I tend to see the humor in even the worst situations, so trying to leave the snarky comments out of my writing is torturous for me. It just comes naturally.

When I read books that are humorous, I can usually tell when the author is a naturally funny person, or if the humor is being forced. Forced humor is worse than no humor at all, in my opinion.

I think a story should be told the way it is meant to be told. By that, I mean, if the humor doesn't come naturally, don't try to insert it for the sake of trying to be funny. If you're writing a story and you can't keep a straight face to save your life, then go with it.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

vlmain said:


> I think this is true. I have noticed some of the best sellers in my category of nonfiction are the books that contain a healthy dose of humor. The same has been true for my own books. Those I sprinkled with humor sell better than than those I didn't. For me, it's hard to write a serious book. I tend to see the humor in even the worst situations, so trying to leave the snarky comments out of my writing is torturous for me. It just comes naturally.
> 
> When I read books that are humorous, I can usually tell when the author is a naturally funny person, or if the humor is being forced. Forced humor is worse than no humor at all, in my opinion.
> 
> I think a story should be told the way it is meant to be told. By that, I mean, if the humor doesn't come naturally, don't try to insert it for the sake of trying to be funny. If you're writing a story and you can't keep a straight face to save your life, then go with it.


I get what you're saying, and completely agree, but how do you define "forced" humor here? Are you talking about when it falls flat for you, when the writer is trying too hard, when it's clumsily done, or what?


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

"A Short History of Peckers" is under my pen name, Benny Profane. It's a comic stretch.


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## 67499 (Feb 4, 2013)

My head hurt trying to apply all the great advice/counter-advice in this thread to my own comic crime caper series.  Following earlier advice here, I de-emphasized the series' comic elements in my blurbs.  No real impact on sales.  Then I emphasized the comic elements (tho' I didn't have the courage to include "hilarious" in the blurb).  Still no vast surge in sales.  Now I've settled on a middle-road blurb approach (thrillers with manic elements) and will see and report.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Steven, I haven't looked at your blurbs lately, but I know that a while back...two or three weeks?  I ran across a post of yours and added your first book to my wishlist.  I don't think I've gotten around to reading the sample.  So your covers work and your blurb at that time was pretty strong.  I think it was before you lowered the price of book one.  I can check my wishlist if that helps.

Really, saying it is hilarious doesn't help--it's more that your blurb was catchy and I thought the book might be funny.  I don't call out the humor in my cozy series either--but I try to present the situations so that you can TELL that the humor might be there.  With Executive Dirt (just came out) the readers who are already familiar with my series SHOULD be able to read the blurb and tell that hilarity will ensue...


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## AltMe (May 18, 2015)

Off hand throw away comment -

If the book is funny, there is no need to say so in the blurb - rather the blurb itself should demonstrate the humour. If people 'get' the blurb, they will 'get' the book. If they dont, they wont. Even some of those who dont, may still buy anyway.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

TimothyEllis said:


> Off hand throw away comment -
> 
> If the book is funny, there is no need to say so in the blurb - rather the blurb itself should demonstrate the humour. If people 'get' the blurb, they will 'get' the book. If they dont, they wont. Even some of those who dont, may still buy anyway.


I heartily agree. There's a kind of Pratchettian understated tone you can get - like the example quoted from Xanth - that tells people it's funny. But I would still put hilarious into my blurb if I thought it would get me a bookbub.

Cheers

MTM


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

That does seem to be one of those dividing lines. To "hilarious" or not. Writing the blurb in a dry, funny, yet effective way is a talent that some completely lack. Being able to write a novel-length work and include enough humor to honestly label the thing a comedy is one thing, but being able to write funny ad copy seems like a mix of a Herculean task and a special level of hell.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I get what you're saying, and completely agree, but how do you define "forced" humor here? Are you talking about when it falls flat for you, when the writer is trying too hard, when it's clumsily done, or what?


I've been chewing on this ever since you posted your response. It's hard to define. I just know it when I see it. I believe it has to do with the rhythm, and the timing of it. Good humor flows naturally.

Forced humor ... an example of something that seems forced, to me, would be a story that is filled with cliche punchlines, but nothing original, as if the author borrowing the humor of others rather than creating their own. Does that make sense?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

vlmain said:


> I've been chewing on this ever since you posted your response. It's hard to define. I just know it when I see it. I believe it has to do with the rhythm, and the timing of it. Good humor flows naturally.
> 
> Forced humor ... an example of something that seems forced, to me, would be a story that is filled with cliche punchlines, but nothing original, as if the author borrowing the humor of others rather than creating their own. Does that make sense?


So more like the artificial feel of an out-of-place joke tacked onto a story rather than a funny moment that evolves naturally from the story or the characters. Or that killer-of-killers, the always "on" funny character who's constantly cracking jokes rather than simply being a funny character doing absurd and hilarious things. The self-aware funny character always drives me up the wall. I'd much rather a character that's just hapless or oblivious to their own absurdity, which makes it that much funnier... for me at least.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> So more like the artificial feel of an out-of-place joke tacked onto a story rather than a funny moment that evolves naturally from the story or the characters. Or that killer-of-killers, the always "on" funny character who's constantly cracking jokes rather than simply being a funny character doing absurd and hilarious things. The self-aware funny character always drives me up the wall. I'd much rather a character that's just hapless or oblivious to their own absurdity, which makes it that much funnier... for me at least.


Yes, that! Exactly. I want to see the buildup. I want to see a story unfold in a funny way, rather than read a bunch of cliche, misplaced punchlines. The same is true in nonfiction. Two of my favorites in the nonfiction arena were Andy Rooney and Erma Bombeck. Both had an incredible talent for making everyday occurrences seem hilarious--things everyone could relate to, but rarely even thought about. You could tell when you read their work that they genuinely saw the world differently and in a very funny way.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Christopher Moore's latest is coming out next week. _Secondhand Souls_ is a sequel to _A Dirty Job_.

Any other up-and-coming or soon-to-be-released funny books people would like to mention?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Has anyone tried Tom Holt's most recent (I think) novel, _The Good, the Bad, and the Smug_?

I almost want that to be a Red Dwarf story titled _The Good, the Bad, and the Smeg_.

And how about the announcement of another few series of Red Dwarf, eh?

How are the funny people doing?

(EDIT: I published a thing, it's in the sig. It's not a humorous novel, but there's spots of humor in it.)


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Garrett Callaghan said:


> Has anyone tried Tom Holt's most recent (I think) novel, _The Good, the Bad, and the Smug_?
> 
> I almost want that to be a Red Dwarf story titled _The Good, the Bad, and the Smeg_.
> 
> ...


Glad you are still publishing.
Three of my humorous articles are in Tales2Inspire - The Crystal Collection. There is a promo video and it should be released soon .


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Glad you are still publishing.
> 
> Three of my humorous articles are in Tales2Inspire - The Crystal Collection. There is a promo video and it should be released soon .


Congrats and be sure to post a link.

Thanks. The next piece will most likely be a comic fantasy. If I'm not going to make any money from writing at least I can write the stuff I enjoy the most and not make any money.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Congrats and be sure to post a link.
> 
> Thanks. The next piece will most likely be a comic fantasy. If I'm not going to make any money from writing at least I can write the stuff I enjoy the most and not make any money.


Enjoying it is the main thing. If you make money - then that's just a bonus


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I'm a rather big fan of comic novels and I'm curious how well, and if, those types of books are received, any success stories, failures, pitfalls, pratfalls, and various other sundry matters related to wit writ large.
> 
> Comic novels include things like Auntie Mame and Catch-22. Comic short stories like O'Henry, Twain, Wodehouse, or Thurber. Comic fantasies like Christopher Moore's Lamb or Love Story trilogy. Tom Holt's novels, such as Expecting Someone Taller. Or Terry Pratchett. Piers Anthony. Robert Asprin's Myth Adventures. Comic mysteries like Donald Westlake or Carl Hiaasen or Janet Evanovich. Comic science fiction like Asprin's Phule books. John Scalzi's Redshirts. Or that one guy, what's his name... Adams.
> 
> Not necessarily (the news) looking for recommendations, but I'll take those too. I'm really hoping there's a coterie of at least mildly amusing writers camped out in WC looking to talk shop as it were.


I'm a HUGE fan of Moore, and also A. Lee Martinez. He doesn't see himself as a "comic" writer although his stuff is very funny IMHO.

I write funny characters, but have not been able to really let loose yet. LOL. My JOURNAL OF MINA HARKER Dracula spoof comes close, though.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Enjoying it is the main thing. If you make money - then that's just a bonus


Yes, absolutely.



bobbic said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of Moore, and also A. Lee Martinez. He doesn't see himself as a "comic" writer although his stuff is very funny IMHO.


Yeah, I've mostly enjoyed Martinez's stuff, but it never quite clicked with me. Much like Jasper Fforde's stuff. I can recognize that it's good stuff, and well-written, but it just never quick worked for me.



> I write funny characters, but have not been able to really let loose yet. LOL. My JOURNAL OF MINA HARKER Dracula spoof comes close, though.


Go for it! Bust out and let loose. It's the only way to fly. I tried to write 'serious' with my mystery but the humor still crept in. There's a few scenes where the main character just does some off-the-wall stuff. Those were the most fun to write.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

And now that I've finished _Hidden Tools of Comedy_, by Steve Kaplan, I can heartily recommend it. Lots of great info and actual techniques to take your humorous fiction to the next level.


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

That's a great book, BTW. I read it not long ago. I'm with you on the Martinez stuff. I liked the Diner one, but Moore's still my favorite. I'm re-reading The Stupidest Angel. It's a great Christmas book, and hilarious!


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## mojomikey (Apr 9, 2014)

Donald Westlake made a career out of writing comic crime capers - Dortmunder et al. Larry Block's Bernie Rhodenbarr books come to mind as well. And I'm spacing on the author's name, (do I remember Spider Robinson correctly?), but the books take a look at a bar on Long Island that caters to aliens.

I'm sure there's many others that are solid sellers


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

I keep trying to write seriously but with only partial success. The Keith Ramsbottom trilogy now has a fifth episode.


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## David Blake (Nov 24, 2015)

Good thread! I've just started out down the "Comedy" route. I suspect people either "get it" or they "really don't get it", and there's not a lot you can do about it. However, as another person said, I do think that those people who do "get it" will come back for more, or at least I hope they do, else I'm screwed.

My first book, The Slaughtered Virgin of Zenopolis, has just emerged from the Kindle Scout program with 112 hours in Hot & Trending and 1,100 views. It wasn't selected but was well received. Anyway, I put it up for sale on Amazon yesterday and will begin marketing it shortly as I finish off the next one.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Scott Pixello said:


> I keep trying to write seriously but with only partial success. The Keith Ramsbottom trilogy now has a fifth episode.


I know what you mean. It seems to go in fits and starts for me. When I want to write funny, I can only write serious; when I want to write serious, I can only write funny.


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## Bickernicks (Dec 18, 2015)

OK, lemme take a whack at this. (why labeling your book a COMEDY is death to sales)

Let's start from the beginning: Why do people read books?
My smelly hypothesis #1: People read them because they're looking for a good STORY.
Presumptuous hypothesis #2: Good story = interesting sequence of events told in a unique fashion.

Hopefully everyone is onboard with me on this. Let's continue:

Pretentious hypothesis #3: When you label a book/film a a COMEDY, you're implying that you're pushing the JOKES at the expense of the STORY.

Disclaimer: Yea yea yea, I'm sure YOUR stories are brilliant and funny at the same time. I'm not talking about the exception to the rule here. Yes, there are books that are both funny and fascinating. We're talking about IN GENERAL, OK? Note: does it sound like I've been beaten down by the Internet? Where every nitwit has to come up with a counter argument to any statement you make? There. I had a Twinkie, I feel better now. Where was I?

Think about it. Joke books should be the best selling COMEDY books. (but they're not) You have more 'laughs' per page than anything else - all at the expense of story. When someone calls their book a ROMANTIC THRILLER, you're implying that there's more romance than thrills, or at least in equal parts. When I think of the all the COMEDY films I've seen, the story is usually just a cheap scaffolding to hang the jokes on. COMEDY implies you're taking a so-so story and are improving it with humor. [see smelly hypothesis #1] But if you claim you have a great story first, then mention that you've hung some humor on it, then the humor will be adding to it. It's all in the arrangement of the nouns.


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## AltMe (May 18, 2015)

Bickernicks said:


> Pretentious hypothesis #3: When you label a book/film a a COMEDY, you're implying that you're pushing the JOKES at the expense of the STORY.


No, I dont agree.

The best humour books don't have a single joke in them. They have a very good story line, which is told in a way which is genuinely funny to read.

A lot of this is the difference between British, American and Australian humour. American humour is full of jokes, one liners, and visual gags. Australian humour is more crass and gutter oriented. Both tend to insult the individual. British humour on the other hand insults the general concept, in a dry choice of words which conveys a story in a manner which is genuinely funny without being an outright joke.

I cant stand Australian humour, and I find American humour is less and less funny as I get older. But I can watch as much British humour as they can make. It doesn't mean I like all of it, but proportionately, I prefer British humour to any other.

Give me Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, over the written version of the movie Airplane (Flying High). And as far as HHGTG is concerned, the books are far better than the mini-series, which leaves the American made movie for dead. The movie in fact, having been converted into American sight gags and one liners, didn't work.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Selling comedy is difficult because the interpretations of what comedy is vary so much, I think. 

Also, as a comedy reader, one of the problems I have reading comedy is that it's difficult to track down. Have you tried listing a book under 'humour' on book bub - you can't. They don't have a 'humour' category, they don't even have a 'humor' category. That makes humour harder to sell honestly. So already that's some of your readers who've clicked fantasy, adventure, sci fi or whatever and got humour as well who are annoyed because they didn't want a funny book. There seem to be a lot of humourless atomatons out there. 

Then there's the whole humor humour thing, how do you categorise it? So that the Americans can find it or so that the rest of the English-speaking world can?

There's the horrific kill it in the water 'best thing since the Beatles' syndrome. My work gets compared to Douglas Adams a lot which is very flattering but effing scary. A lot of the poor reviews it gets say things like, 'Oh dear, remind me never to read authors who are hailed as the next Douglas Adams'. 

If people compare your work to comedy greats, it puts their fans off. First up, if someone compares my stuff to Douglas Adams it means they're, basically, calling me a genius. That's amazingly nice of them but it does make me feel like a massive fraud. Worse, even if I've never presumed to cite Adams, myself, it still makes me look presumptuous. It sets up everyone else who reads the book for disappointment (and thinking I'm a massive fraud too) if it isn't as good. And it ain't going to be as good unless am a genius, which, sadly, I'm not! 

Another aspect is loyalty. When people like comedy authors, they LOVE them, which means that, as a comedy author, you have to earn that love. If you do, you get super fans but in my experience so far, it means they will think much longer before they buy and when they've bought, before they read - they have to be in the right mood to start your book, that may take them years. Again, harking back to the Beatles thing, when they're reading your blurb and checking reviews, if you are compared to an author who has earned that love before you, it makes them more wary of your presumption (even if the comparison is one you, personally have never made, is in a review and nothing to do with you) than interested in reading the book.

Lastly when it comes to writing humour forcing it at al, to be honest, I've no real clue if my books are forced. I know they're funny to some folks and not to others so all I can do is write stuff that makes me laugh and hope some other folks will laugh too. I do know that funny is all I can write. I'd love to do some serious books but I can't so I might as well go the whole hog, call my characters silly names and make it look deliberate. However, there is a thing that I think great comedy writers do which is put in niche jokes which hardly anyone else will get. Terry Pratchett does that all the time, so does Bill Bryson. 

This is just my own experience in trying to write funny books, and subsequently, flog them.

Oh and the hilarous thing... I frequently wonder about it but so far, I don't use it. I have a facebook ad offering people a couple of free books in return for signing up to my mailing list. I've found that what works best for me is an exciting picture and a post with a catchy title and a funny paragraph. That flies in the face of all the things that have worked for other people which suggests that one of the reasons selling funny books is difficult is because it's a completely different dynamic. Always, always, you have to show your funny which is dead tricky.

There you go anyway, there's my twopennorth.

Cheers

MTM


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

M T McGuire said:


> Selling comedy is difficult because the interpretations of what comedy is vary so much, I think.
> 
> Also, as a comedy reader, one of the problems I have reading comedy is that it's difficult to track down. Have you tried listing a book under 'humour' on book bub - you can't. They don't have a 'humour' category, they don't even have a 'humor' category. That makes humour harder to sell honestly. So already that's some of your readers who've clicked fantasy, adventure, sci fi or whatever and got humour as well who are annoyed because they didn't want a funny book. There seem to be a lot of humourless atomatons out there.


As a reader you basically have to go the other way around. Instead of trying to brute force it on the bookseller's end, just search for it online then find the books by name on Amazon. I know that cuts out a fair few people, but you're far more likely to find what you're looking for. There's also GoodReads, but I haven't been there in a long time.

But you're right, that makes things damned maddening as a seller.



> Then there's the whole humor humour thing, how do you categorise it? So that the Americans can find it or so that the rest of the English-speaking world can?


Everyone else is aware that the Americans drop the 'u', so it's probably easier to dumb it down for the Yanks and let everyone else have a knowing grin whilst they misspell the word.



> There's the horrific kill it in the water 'best thing since the Beatles' syndrome. My work gets compared to Douglas Adams a lot which is very flattering but effing scary. A lot of the poor reviews it gets say things like, 'Oh dear, remind me never to read authors who are hailed as the next Douglas Adams'.
> 
> If people compare your work to comedy greats, it puts their fans off. First up, if someone compares my stuff to Douglas Adams it means they're, basically, calling me a genius. That's amazingly nice of them but it does make me feel like a massive fraud. Worse, even if I've never presumed to cite Adams, myself, it still makes me look presumptuous. It sets up everyone else who reads the book for disappointment (and thinking I'm a massive fraud too) if it isn't as good. And it ain't going to be as good unless am a genius, which, sadly, I'm not!


I think it's okay for a reader / reviewer to mention other writers or books that yours reminds them of, but when the authors put that same comparison in their own book description that instantly turns me off. I get that writers have to have a bit of ego to sit down and pound out a story they think strangers will want to pay good money to read, not to mention the added ego of trying to make someone laugh via prose, but it's just too much when a writer lists their own stuff as the best thing since Adams or Pratchett. *shiver*



> Another aspect is loyalty. When people like comedy authors, they LOVE them, which means that, as a comedy author, you have to earn that love. If you do, you get super fans but in my experience so far, it means they will think much longer before they buy and when they've bought, before they read - they have to be in the right mood to start your book, that may take them years. Again, harking back to the Beatles thing, when they're reading your blurb and checking reviews, if you are compared to an author who has earned that love before you, it makes them more wary of your presumption (even if the comparison is one you, personally have never made, is in a review and nothing to do with you) than interested in reading the book.


I find those comparisons useful but only up to a point. Because generally they're vague. The Adams comparison for example. Does the reviewer mean that it's an absurdist romp, or that there's in jokes, or that there's going to be silly aliens, or bizarre dangers? 'It's like Douglas Adams' isn't really helpful, other than to suggest that the reviewer also really liked Douglas Adams and in liking your stuff wants to make what they think is a good comparison. But, as you say, that could put off readers just as easily as turn them on. For the same reasons. Humour is subjective. More than any other tone or manner of writing. And individual books may work whilst others may not. Is that like Douglas Adams in Hitchhiker's Guide or Dirk Gently or Doctor Who?



> Lastly when it comes to writing humour forcing it at al, to be honest, I've no real clue if my books are forced. I know they're funny to some folks and not to others so all I can do is write stuff that makes me laugh and hope some other folks will laugh too. I do know that funny is all I can write. I'd love to do some serious books but I can't so I might as well go the whole hog, call my characters silly names and make it look deliberate. However, there is a thing that I think great comedy writers do which is put in niche jokes which hardly anyone else will get. Terry Pratchett does that all the time, so does Bill Bryson.


Sure, but unless you're in the know, you won't realise it's a joke.

There's a technique I've picked up from stand-up comedy that might be helpful. It's basically how Christopher Titus does his stand-up routines. He's more of a storyteller than a one-liner comic, but I think he's funny. What he does is he takes a story he wants to tell, say a news article he wants to bring up. He breaks the story down into chronological elements. _This_ happened, then _this_ happened, then _this_ happened, etc. But for each of those elements he tries to think of a joke or a punchline that he can build off that element. The elements are telling the actual story, whilst the jokes are just making it funny. That could be useful in prose, I think. More than just having a funny story, bits need to be funny. Like descriptions and names, or someone needs to poke fun at things. Not every element, and not all in the same way, but it could be useful/helpful.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Interesting article on dark comedy from Lit Reactor.

So how are the funny people doing today?


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## jimmypete (Mar 1, 2016)

I am finishing a novel now, getting ready to publish for the first time. I have tried to put as much humor in it as I could. A few years ago I started doing standup comedy at open mics. Most large cities have comedy open mics you can show up/go up. At first I was terrified. I have developed a couple of decent five minute sets of material and have become more comfortable on stage. I'll never be a professional standup comedian but this experience has done wonders for my writing. I highly recommend taking the terrifying step of getting on stage at a comedy open mic if you want to write funny stuff. The audience will let you know immediately what works and what doesn't. They will help you find your voice and you can learn how to write succinct setups and punch lines, callbacks, etc. I will test a joke onstage that I want to put in my novel, and tweak it a few times to get it just right. You will also meet some of the greatest people on the planet. The comedy community is fantastic and supportive. And if you experience the curse of "killing" onstage, you won't be able to stop, even when you bomb.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

And here's an article from Slate about 80+ modern funny books.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2016/10/the_funniest_books_as_chosen_by_the_funniest_living_writers.html

How are the funny people doing?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> How are the funny people doing?


I write observational humour (British with a u). My novel began as a commissioned sitcom, which unfortunately came to naught, so I turned it into a novel. It did really well to begin with but inevitably the Amazon algos changed and it began to sink . My intended readership is expats and I sometimes get a review that tells me I am on target .

5.0 out of 5 starsA BRILLIANT BOOK FOR LAUGHTER AND MEMORIES
13 September 2014
Format: Kindle Edition|Verified Purchase
One word describes this book BRILLIANT. Obvious that the Author Emigrated from UK to RSA. I and my family left Liverpool same as the Author for RSA also in the 70s.Every situation, Every Page related to EXACTLY what happened to ourselves as the Author experienced, even down to when we returned to the UK on Holiday. Both the Wife and I shed tears of Laughter. It brought back many memories. We also had the Wife's Parents out on Holiday and once again we relived the humour and wIt. Even down to the MELBA TOAST. EXCELLENT and once again BRILLIANT. A MUST FOR EVERY Ex Pat to South Africa to read.

So, to answer your question - the problem is to keep finding these readers .


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Yeah, that's a universal problem that seems exacerbated with comic novels.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

How are the funny people doing?

Funny you should ask.

Keeping on keeping on.

Up to book no. 16 now. Still got lots of nonsense in my head. Still cheaper than therapy. Still using too many short sentences in Kboard posts.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I mentioned Joe Lansdale a few pages back, amongst others. Let me give you folks a few examples.

Check out Joe's Bubba Hotep. It was a great B movie and a side-splitting novella and you haven't seen anything until you've seen Bruce Campbell playing Elvis Presley accompanied by Ossie Davis playing JFK. Go see it, with a six-pack close at hand.






If you'd like to read some of Joe Lansdale's short fiction, try GODZILLA'S TWELVE STEP PROGRAM.
http://www.revolutionsf.com/fiction/godzilla/01.html


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## derekailes2014 (Aug 4, 2014)

I released my first comedy/horror superhero novel last month: The Undead Pool.  I'm still trying to find the right audience.  Those that have read it, have loved it.  It is a spoof on the superhero genre and the zombie genre.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> And here's an article from Slate about 80+ modern funny books.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2016/10/the_funniest_books_as_chosen_by_the_funniest_living_writers.html
> 
> How are the funny people doing?


Not bad... w.i.p. is coming up a bit serious and gritty and then I end up with two computers vying for control of the ship and it turns out it's going to be funny after all.

Apologies, Fishbowl Helmet, for not replying to your reply to my reply about a year ago. Has it really been that long?

When it comes to funny books, I'm beginning to think a mailing list is the best way to go. You get folks who like funny books as a given because they like your funny books. Then you write more funny books and hopefully they like those. That has to be a start. ;-)


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Bubba Ho-Tep is wonderfully bizarre and hilarious. If you can get past the first bit of narration and "navel-gazing", you're in for a treat.

Yeah, mailing lists seem to be the way to go. The trouble is either giving out your real address or securing a PO box without much cost when you're starting up.

AV Club review of Norm Macdonald's faux-memoir / novel over here: http://www.avclub.com/review/norm-macdonalds-lie-memoir-rejoinder-oversharing-c-244027


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> And here's an article from Slate about 80+ modern funny books.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2016/10/the_funniest_books_as_chosen_by_the_funniest_living_writers.html


This Slate article exemplifies the problem of humor (the same problem you've all been discussing for a while on this thread): what is it? And, is it funny? Funny for who?

The (mini) article starts with selecting Maria Semple's Where'd You Go, Bernadette, as one of the funniest books recently written.

I read Semple's book and couldn't find anything funny in it. Nothing. I realize other people find it funny--just go read some of the reviews on Goodreads. The fact, though, that there isn't the slightest overlap in what Readers 1-1,000,000 find funny and what I find funny strikes me as weird, almost as if engineered by some malevolent alien race tinkering with our brains. As extreme as Bob seeing red where I see green.

What other part of life has such an extreme divergence with zero overlap of commonality? Religion, maybe? Those who like baseball and those who don't? Vegans and barbecue aficionados?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Christopher Bunn said:


> This Slate article exemplifies the problem of humor (the same problem you've all been discussing for a while on this thread): what is it? And, is it funny? Funny for who?
> 
> The (mini) article starts with selecting Maria Semple's Where'd You Go, Bernadette, as one of the funniest books recently written.
> 
> ...


I think that speaks to something (I think) was discussed somewhere in the early single digits of this thread. There's a difference between comedy and funny. Comedy is the larger genre and its intent is to be funny, though what's funny is purely an individual reaction. If you think something is funny, it is; if you think something is not funny, it isn't. Though that doesn't speak to the creator's intent. As long as the intent is comedy, then it is a comedy.

I think a lot of comedy writers think we'll get the largest portion of a Venn diagram encompassing the main genre they're writing and the fans of comedy, when in reality we get the tiny slice of the main genre fans who happen to like comedies. Worse still, only those who largely share our individual sense of humor. Which is why I try to do straight fiction but I can't seem to stop myself from injecting comedy beats. It's just how I'm wired. It's my first and most honest reaction to just about everything. But then, that's probably why most of us are in this thread.


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> I think that speaks to something (I think) was discussed somewhere in the early single digits of this thread. There's a difference between comedy and funny. Comedy is the larger genre and its intent is to be funny, though what's funny is purely an individual reaction. If you think something is funny, it is; if you think something is not funny, it isn't. Though that doesn't speak to the creator's intent. As long as the intent is comedy, then it is a comedy.
> 
> I think a lot of comedy writers think we'll get the largest portion of a Venn diagram encompassing the main genre they're writing and the fans of comedy, when in reality we get the tiny slice of the main genre fans who happen to like comedies. Worse still, only those who largely share our individual sense of humor. Which is why I try to do straight fiction but I can't seem to stop myself from injecting comedy beats. It's just how I'm wired. It's my first and most honest reaction to just about everything. But then, that's probably why most of us are in this thread.


Absolutely. Like you, I write books that are funny because ... well because I can't help it. They're funny if I want them to be or not. But they are sff first and foremost, probably, and they're serious in some ways too. Then again, a lot of comedy is serious. You can't get much more serious than Terry Pratchett can you? Not of you look at the issues he's dealing with.


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

"As long as the intent is comedy, then it is comedy."

Um... are you certain about that? If I intend to bake a chocolate cake, but I toss in apples, some broccoli and delicious bacon, and then stir-fry it instead of baking it, is the end result still a chocolate cake? Art (and cake, etc) should possess inherent meaning apart from its creator.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Christopher Bunn said:


> "As long as the intent is comedy, then it is comedy."
> 
> Um... are you certain about that? If I intend to bake a chocolate cake, but I toss in apples, some broccoli and delicious bacon, and then stir-fry it instead of baking it, is the end result still a chocolate cake? Art (and cake, etc) should possess inherent meaning apart from its creator.


Yes, I'm sure. You show intent by what you do, though your actions might have unintended consequences. Your analogy is more than a bit off. If you put in apples, broccoli, and bacon into a stir fry pan, your intent is clearly not to make a chocolate cake. If you start with a chocolate cake recipe and all the ingredients, but accidentally use the wrong quantity of flour, your intent is still a chocolate cake...whether it turns out as something recognizable as chocolate cake depends on what comes out of the oven.

If you write something with comedic characters, use comedic tropes, use exaggeration and understatement for comedic effect, if you include absurd situations, characters with an exaggerated comedic viewpoint, wordplay, double entendre, slapstick, and any of the other myriad tropes and techniques that define modern comedy, then yes, your intent as the creator is clearly to make a comedy. However, the subjective opinion of the individual audience members determines whether it's funny.

It's like saying that because you don't find a movie funny you should be able to pluck it out of the comedy section and drop in in the drama section. Your interpretation of the result doesn't matter in regards to what genre it is. It's still a comedy whether you laugh or not. You show intent by what you do, though your actions might have unintended consequences. Like an accidentally funny scene, or an accidentally unfunny scene. But again, whether the audience laughs or not doesn't magically change the genre of the work.

Comedy is especially hard because it's more often linked to whether we enjoy or like a given piece than other genres. We can point to a fantasy book we don't like and still call it fantasy. But pointing to a comedy that we don't find funny and still acknowledging it's a comedy is mysteriously hard to do. Is it supposed to be funny? If yes, then it's a comedy.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

derekailes2014 said:


> I released my first comedy/horror superhero novel last month: The Undead Pool. I'm still trying to find the right audience. Those that have read it, have loved it. It is a spoof on the superhero genre and the zombie genre.


I like it. For some reason, the zombie in the back looks like he's saying "Hey girl!" or something equally funny and unlike a zombie. Looks good, to be honest. Did you do your cover?


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Interesting list...

http://bookriot.com/2016/09/06/100-must-read-hilarious-books/


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## macguffinit (Apr 6, 2016)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Interesting list...
> 
> http://bookriot.com/2016/09/06/100-must-read-hilarious-books/


Huh. None of mine are on there. That's surprising.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

How are the funny people doing?

I published a thing, it's in the sig. It's a humorous SF / mindfuck novella...

Anyone else got upcoming funny books?


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I released _Apocalypse Barnes_ last week. A comedy zombie novella, set in the affluent streets of South West London. It's selling - whisper it - _really well_. But mostly in the UK, where people are more interested in zombies in London and some... uh, *esteemed reader* didn't do a drive-by three star review in launch week like they did Stateside.


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## AltMe (May 18, 2015)

I'm waiting on the cover for a short story called "Was that you?" 

It started out as a light hearted chat session between an unknown person and a 12 year old girl, and rapidly went from the sublime to the ridiculous. 

It pokes fun at politics, the media, and rich people.

Hoping to get it out yesterday, but as said, still waiting for a cover.


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## xinamarieuhl (Dec 2, 2010)

I just released a historical humorous romancey thing. And kboards helped me with the blurb:

_A romantic novelette in the Icebound series, an ongoing collection of polar delights.

Behold dogsleds and penguins. Howling winds and cold, pitiless wastes. This is Antarctica, where the intrepid inhabitants of the frozen ends of the earth battle the terrain, and each other, to find love-in a past much like that of the early 1900s.
_
Reluctant spinster Florance Barton fled to the British Antarctic base to escape a scandalous love affair. Amidst the handful of other women there, Florance is the perfect chambermaid, meek, mild, and forgettable. No one has a clue that she's also a novice spy.

When handsome young Handy McHanagan arrives at the base, he sets everyone agog. He's charming, artistic, and ... an accomplished gardener. His arrival may be a mistake on the part of naval command. Or is it something more sinister?

Killer seals and subzero ice storms and aren't the only danger in Antarctica: a enemy spy is on the loose. Florance has been ordered to choose between queen and country and her heart. Because penguin is off the menu now--and murder is its replacement.

http://xcpublishing.net/whiter-pastures/


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## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

I have two humorous books, but I'll be darned if I know how to refer to them. They aren't really comic novels; they are collections of humorous essays, but calling them that is a kiss of death. It sounds stuffy and pretentious. They are an absolute booger to market, but they sell better than any of my romance novels. (Not a brag. It doesn't take many sales to out-sell my romance novels.)

I recently got new covers for both of my funny books and relaunched the oldest one with a new title. Today, one of them hit #58 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Humor & Entertainment > Humor > Essays. Not exactly a bestseller, but it's sitting on the same page as Bill Bryson, David Sedaris, and David Foster Wallace.  That makes me very, very happy, even if it only lasts for an hour.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

alawston said:


> I released _Apocalypse Barnes_ last week. A comedy zombie novella, set in the affluent streets of South West London. It's selling - whisper it - _really well_. But mostly in the UK, where people are more interested in zombies in London and some... uh, *esteemed reader* didn't do a drive-by three star review in launch week like they did Stateside.


There is a trick somewhere in the thread about getting books placed in the British Humour category. Might help. Might not. Dunno. Looks good though. That drive-by three-star is shitty.


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## Caimh (May 8, 2016)

Reverend Schlachbals said:


> There is a trick somewhere in the thread about getting books placed in the British Humour category. Might help. Might not. Dunno. Looks good though. That drive-by three-star is [crappy].


I don't know if there's a trick as such, I think you just e-mail KDP support and ask nicely.


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## Caimh (May 8, 2016)

As someone who is making a living in the comedy coalmine, and has been for some time, I personally don't think 'comedy' really is a genre in books. I write crime books that are funny in places but the comedy is only there to serve the story. The reviews tend to focus on the comedy a lot because if you read a lot of crime, frankly my books are a considerable change of pace. I'm aware trad publishing has a phobia of the phrase 'comedic crime' but it is frankly ludicrously OTT. I feel like I've found a nice niche in the market and there is very definitely an audience there. Trad runs from gaps in the market, indies can run towards them.

Authors who write comedy have asked me to do cross-promo stuff but honestly, I don't think people who like my work will probably like a comedy fantasy and vice-versa. I also think to be honest, marketing a book as being 'comedy' can turn people off as the funny cover etc often looks like it is trying to hard. Not always of course but I know some of them do. I was asked recently how to write a funny book and for the first time I gave that idea a lot of thought. My answer was not to - write a book with strong characters and a plot that belts along and the comedy will come if that's where your strengths are. There is nothing worse than reading a book where it feels like the author is only using the characters like siege weapons that he/she needs to move into position to fire jokes at you.


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## AltMe (May 18, 2015)

My first attempt at a humour short story is out now.

Was that you?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074C1DW5Q

A 12 year old girl chats with a friend on her tablet, and the following day, the world changes a bit more.

Wish fulfillment humour.


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## A.Q. (Jul 29, 2017)

In the realm of fan fiction, no one can beat Peter David's Star Trek work: he has written some of the funniest scenes I have ever read anywhere. 

His Star Wars equivalent would be the late Aaron Allston, who wrote 5 X-Wing books (all of them a hoot), as well as 7 or 8 other Star Wars works. He focused more on the characters and dialogue - usually the largest source of humour - than he did on detailing the world(s) around them.

I can't say I've got any fictional comedy works, so I'll definitely be looking up some of the material posted above


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Caimh said:


> As someone who is making a living in the comedy coalmine, and has been for some time, I personally don't think 'comedy' really is a genre in books. I write crime books that are funny in places but the comedy is only there to serve the story. The reviews tend to focus on the comedy a lot because if you read a lot of crime, frankly my books are a considerable change of pace. I'm aware trad publishing has a phobia of the phrase 'comedic crime' but it is frankly ludicrously OTT. I feel like I've found a nice niche in the market and there is very definitely an audience there. Trad runs from gaps in the market, indies can run towards them.
> 
> Authors who write comedy have asked me to do cross-promo stuff but honestly, I don't think people who like my work will probably like a comedy fantasy and vice-versa. I also think to be honest, marketing a book as being 'comedy' can turn people off as the funny cover etc often looks like it is trying to hard. Not always of course but I know some of them do. I was asked recently how to write a funny book and for the first time I gave that idea a lot of thought. My answer was not to - write a book with strong characters and a plot that belts along and the comedy will come if that's where your strengths are. There is nothing worse than reading a book where it feels like the author is only using the characters like siege weapons that he/she needs to move into position to fire jokes at you.


Yep, I get that absolutely. It took me a long time to refer to my stuff as 'humorous' because, like you, the idea of comedy immediately brings to mind something a bit forced and try hard. Since most of the reviewers mention Adams or Pratchett at some point, or the Stainless Steel Rat Series or something else humorous it probably isn't necessary either, in many respects. Also, I confess, the comedy section seems to be a very bad bet from the point of view of visibility, traffic or ... well ... anything. That said, I kind of feel I have to call it humorous or it's a bit dishonest. If someone is trying to download the standard dystopian misery fest they are unlikely to enjoy my stuff. I have also tried to indicate with the technicolour colours that they are 'funny'.

I am very much not doing well in the comedy niche though, and my books, which are humorous science fiction fantasy, with action, adventure and a dash of romance here and there (but no squelchy bits) used to do really well in fantasy but now that's mostly a sub genre of romance it's doing best in sci-fi. On the other hand, when I share comedy books with my newsletter, the open and click rate pretty much doubles. So there's clearly a market, it's just fickle - or I haven't the measure of it yet - or both!

Cheers

MTM


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Reverend Schlachbals said:


> There is a trick somewhere in the thread about getting books placed in the British Humour category. Might help. Might not. Dunno. Looks good though. That drive-by three-star is [crappy].


Conrats . Don't forget to take screen shots. 
I also write British humour and back in the day my book was #1 in three categories (for three weeks) and made it to #20 on the bestseller list in the UK - and I didn't know about taking screen shots . (That was in 2011 when there were far fewer books available, so your success is probably worth more )


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

M T McGuire said:


> Yep, I get that absolutely. It took me a long time to refer to my stuff as 'humorous' because, like you, the idea of comedy immediately brings to mind something a bit forced and try hard. Since most of the reviewers mention Adams or Pratchett at some point, or the Stainless Steel Rat Series or something else humorous it probably isn't necessary either, in many respects. Also, I confess, the comedy section seems to be a very bad bet from the point of view of visibility, traffic or ... well ... anything. That said, I kind of feel I have to call it humorous or it's a bit dishonest. If someone is trying to download the standard dystopian misery fest they are unlikely to enjoy my stuff. I have also tried to indicate with the technicolour colours that they are 'funny'.
> 
> I am very much not doing well in the comedy niche though, and my books, which are humorous science fiction fantasy, with action, adventure and a dash of romance here and there (but no squelchy bits) used to do really well in fantasy but now that's mostly a sub genre of romance it's doing best in sci-fi. On the other hand, when I share comedy books with my newsletter, the open and click rate pretty much doubles. So there's clearly a market, it's just fickle - or I haven't the measure of it yet - or both!
> 
> ...


I just mention humour in passing at the end of one of my blurbs. Some reviewers have mentioned that they enjoyed the humour, but I don't advertise this particular book as being a humorous novel. The humour is a sort of bonus - if you enjoy this particular type of humour (mostly banter between the characters).

_Intrigue, scandal and suspense simmer beneath the surface of this *light-hearted and humour-peppered romance,* where one man's influence on a school full of wayward girls and their teachers changes their lives in ways none of them could imagine - and eventually his own._


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## M T McGuire (Dec 6, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I just mention humour in passing at the end of one of my blurbs. Some reviewers have mentioned that they enjoyed the humour, but I don't advertise this particular book as being a humorous novel. The humour is a sort of bonus - if you enjoy this particular type of humour (mostly banter between the characters).
> 
> _Intrigue, scandal and suspense simmer beneath the surface of this *light-hearted and humour-peppered romance,* where one man's influence on a school full of wayward girls and their teachers changes their lives in ways none of them could imagine - and eventually his own._


I've primed it with the humorous amazon keywords and left it at that. I've also done that for the other sites, hoping they're roughly similar. I think I went for sci-fi adventure and British comedy in the US. Back in the days when Permafree was a new thing, I did get a story to number 6 on Amazon UK but that was in 2010 I think. A very long time ago. Ah them were the days.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

M T McGuire said:


> I've primed it with the humorous amazon keywords and left it at that. I've also done that for the other sites, hoping they're roughly similar. I think I went for sci-fi adventure and British comedy in the US. Back in the days when Permafree was a new thing, I did get a story to number 6 on Amazon UK but that was in 2010 I think. A very long time ago. *Ah them were the days. *


Quite 

ETA sitting at my computer watching YouTubes of Michael McIntyre - my sense of humour


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Quite
> 
> ETA sitting at my computer watching YouTubes of Michael McIntyre - my sense of humour


Nice. Cheers. I hadn't heard of him before. He's like a clean Jimmy Carr with a squeakier voice.

So, how are the funny people doing?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Nice. Cheers. I hadn't heard of him before. He's like a clean Jimmy Carr with a squeakier voice.
> 
> So, how are the funny people doing?


Not quite laughing all the way to the bank


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Not quite laughing all the way to the bank


Yeah, I have a grand old time writing and reading comic novels, but they don't sell for shit.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Well that's good news. Here's to hoping there's a knock-on effect.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/terry-pratchetts-discworld-is-finally-being-turned-into-1823424350


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## Alan Felyk (Aug 17, 2017)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Yeah, I have a grand old time writing and reading comic novels, but they don't sell for [crap].


I think the challenge is that most humorous novels embrace other genres. When I shopped _Damaged Beyond All Recognition_ to literary agents, I was told that Barnes & Noble didn't have a science fiction/romance/humor aisle. They certainly prefer something that stays in one lane of traffic because the audience is more clearly defined.

The lack of sales for such books is clearly proven in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Humorous. Although the front-runners in this category are registering decent success, it doesn't take much to crash the Top 100. If I sell two or three copies in a day, I often crash the Top 40.

When my novel came out in January, I chose to straddle the three fences I had created. I'm not sure that's the best marketing strategy, but I'm getting feedback from reviewers regarding what THEY think the book is. So far, I haven't seen one of the three genres emerge as the dominant personality for the book.

Marketing seems to take up more of my time than I wish it would. And, it can be frustrating because the results seem to be so minimal. Writing a best seller isn't nearly as hard as convincing others that it deserves to be a best seller.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Alan Felyk said:


> I think the challenge is that most humorous novels embrace other genres. When I shopped _Damaged Beyond All Recognition_ to literary agents, I was told that Barnes & Noble didn't have a science fiction/romance/humor aisle. They certainly prefer something that stays in one lane of traffic because the audience is more clearly defined.
> 
> The lack of sales for such books is clearly proven in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Humorous. Although the front-runners in this category are registering decent success, it doesn't take much to crash the Top 100. If I sell two or three copies in a day, I often crash the Top 40.
> 
> ...


I had a publisher interested in my humorous novel and it went through various stages until it was eventually turned down because the sales team couldn't figure out how to market it  .


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

kw3000 said:


> I just read this entire thread instead of working on my WIP. Talk about your tragic comedy. Anyway, I'm glad this thread exists because it seems as though humor/satire etc gets short shrift in writerly circles and in the Kindle Store for that matter. I agree, maybe the best idea is to market your work as 'x' genre you're working in and let readers classify you as "funny" if they so choose.


That would be ok if you could classify it under another genre. I suppose 'contemporary fiction' would do - if such a category exists on the websites where you want to promote it. BookBub doesn't have contemporary fiction (except romance) and it doesn't have humour. I can't see my humorous novel fitting into 'literary fiction' either.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

kw3000 said:


> I just read this entire thread instead of working on my WIP. Talk about your tragic comedy. Anyway, I'm glad this thread exists because it seems as though humor/satire etc gets short shrift in writerly circles and in the Kindle Store for that matter. I agree, maybe the best idea is to market your work as 'x' genre you're working in and let readers classify you as "funny" if they so choose.


Yes - this is my approach. I write mysteries which are categorised as cozy but which somehow come across as funny to some people (mostly in the UK and Canada), and my reviews are full of words like 'hilarious'. I don't really know how this happens, as I always set out to write a real mystery. It's been the same when I've given presentations in a work context, which are usually about technology in museums or something equally techie. I really wish I knew how I did it, but it just happens. I suspect that if I tried harder to write comedy I wouldn't be able to do it.


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## Alan Felyk (Aug 17, 2017)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> That would be ok if you could classify it under another genre. I suppose 'contemporary fiction' would do - if such a category exists on the websites where you want to promote it. BookBub doesn't have contemporary fiction (except romance) and it doesn't have humour. I can't see my humorous novel fitting into 'literary fiction' either.


"Literary fiction" is agent/publisher code for "we don't know what it is." One of the issues is that Amazon limits the number of genres you can choose for your books. I've been told that with a convincing argument, they will add some. I just haven't had time to pursue that yet.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Alan Felyk said:


> "Literary fiction" is agent/publisher code for "we don't know what it is." One of the issues is that Amazon limits the number of genres you can choose for your books. I've been told that with a convincing argument, they will add some. I just haven't had time to pursue that yet.


In my experience "literary fiction" is code for boring and plotless fiction written by someone who wishes they were a poet.

#

In other news, here's a review of a new comic sf novel being touted as the next Hitchhiker's Guide...

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/14/17233606/space-opera-catheryenne-valente-science-fiction-humor-book-review


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Alan Felyk said:


> I think the challenge is that most humorous novels embrace other genres. When I shopped _Damaged Beyond All Recognition_ to literary agents, I was told that Barnes & Noble didn't have a science fiction/romance/humor aisle. They certainly prefer something that stays in one lane of traffic because the audience is more clearly defined.
> 
> The lack of sales for such books is clearly proven in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Humorous. Although the front-runners in this category are registering decent success, it doesn't take much to crash the Top 100. If I sell two or three copies in a day, I often crash the Top 40.
> 
> ...


The way I see it, writing satire is about having fun and if you make some money along the way, then it's a bonus.

Unless you are incredibly lucky or incredibly talented, I think the only way to earn a living wage from self publishing is to write to the market. That doesn't mean writing romance cos it's the best selling, but identifying a target audience that is big enough to generate a good number of sales and then writing to that audience*. In the end, writing for money isn't about pleasing yourself, but pleasing your readers. It's a bonus if you can do both (like that Sir Terry Pratchett fellow who wrote funny books _and_ enjoyed writing them _and_ made a huge amount of cash).

* this assumes that all the other boxes are ticked like a genre appropriate cover and good marketing, and that there is actually a coherent and engaging story between the electronic covers


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

One of my series is truly a labour of love. I've stuck with it over the years, releasing new books for rusted-on fans, but I never expect it to find a big audience. It's just too hard to sell something which is a regular novel, with a plot and real characters and everything, plus that dreaded ingredient X ... humour.

If you sell the funny, there will be reviews from people who don't get the humour declaring it's not.
If you sell it as a regular science fiction series, people who aren't expecting the humour will not be laughing.

And if you set a comedy series in space, people will leave reviews declaring it a copy of HHG or Red Dwarf. (True facts: I never even saw Red Dwarf until after I released the seventh Hal novel. Back in the early days, my editor used to tell me I couldn't use X or Y plot ideas, because RD had already done it.)

I've only ever read the first two HHG novels, must be 30 years ago now, loved the TV series but hated the movie. And I've only managed to get through 2 Terry Pratchett novels.

With my latest series I went for 'wry humour' instead. I'm just going to sell it as a regular science fiction series, and let people enjoy the odd light-hearted moment. I've been wanting to write these novels for years, so I don't consider myself a sellout ;-)


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## Dpock (Oct 31, 2016)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> The way I see it, writing satire is about having fun and if you make some money along the way, then it's a bonus.
> 
> Unless you are incredibly lucky or incredibly talented, I think the only way to earn a living wage from self publishing is to write to the market. That doesn't mean writing romance cos it's the best selling, but identifying a target audience that is big enough to generate a good number of sales and then writing to that audience*. In the end, writing for money isn't about pleasing yourself, but pleasing your readers. It's a bonus if you can do both (like that Sir Terry Pratchett fellow who wrote funny books _and_ enjoyed writing them _and_ made a huge amount of cash).
> 
> * this assumes that all the other boxes are ticked like a genre appropriate cover and good marketing, and that there is actually a coherent and engaging story between the electronic covers


I get your point, but you're not giving much hope to those of us who hate the idea of writing to market, lol. I don't. I write to please myself and those readers who enjoy my work. The readers that don't I couldn't care less about. (I'm actually supporting your statement that you have to please _your_ readers.)

I write satiric, comedic novels that often sit next to Pratchett's up and down the ranks, a minor testament to the notion you can be successful without writing to market. I haven't and likely never will break the top #3000, but I still make a decent living wage.


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## Paranormal Kitty (Jun 13, 2017)

Simon Haynes said:


> One of my series is truly a labour of love. I've stuck with it over the years, releasing new books for rusted-on fans, but I never expect it to find a big audience. It's just too hard to sell something which is a regular novel, with a plot and real characters and everything, plus that dreaded ingredient X ... humour.
> 
> If you sell the funny, there will be reviews from people who don't get the humour declaring it's not.
> If you sell it as a regular science fiction series, people who aren't expecting the humour will not be laughing.
> ...


Ah, you're not giving me much hope. I started out trying to write serious, but apparently I'm not capable of it. I haven't really decided whether to market on the humor aspect or not though.


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

Paranormal Kitty said:


> Ah, you're not giving me much hope. I started out trying to write serious, but apparently I'm not capable of it. I haven't really decided whether to market on the humor aspect or not though.


Don't give up, the world always appreciates a good laugh. There aren't enough people writing decent humour, and when readers find someone they like, they'll keep buying your stuff. Plus we're writing in a niche genre, which makes it easier to market on AMS ... and publish a bestseller. (There are only 13 titles on the 'free' Teen/Lit/Comedy bestseller list. 13! And some of those are shorts or novellas.)

The point someone made about not marketing the humor aspects is a good one. Let someone else point out the funny, and if nobody does we can just pretend it was a serious novel after all.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Dpock said:


> I get your point, but you're not giving much hope to those of us who hate the idea of writing to market, lol. I don't. I write to please myself and those readers who enjoy my work. The readers that don't I couldn't care less about. (I'm actually supporting your statement that you have to please _your_ readers.)
> 
> I write satiric, comedic novels that often sit next to Pratchett's up and down the ranks, a minor testament to the notion you can be successful without writing to market. I haven't and likely never will break the top #3000, but I still make a decent living wage.


Making a living wage writing anything is a bloody good effort and you should keep doing what you're doing.


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## Gareth K Pengelly (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm doing surprisingly well with my Brian Helsing series atm! Was very nervous publishing it and promoting it, as I know my humour can be crude and a bit hit and miss.

But so far, doing very well. Got 17 reviews on the first book in the two weeks since promoting it. Mostly 4s and 5s, but with a 1 star thrown in the mix too. Tbh, was surprised it took so long to get a 1 as I did feel like the book might be a bit polarising with its bad language, despite the huge warning label I slapped on the front cover haha.


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## Caimh (May 8, 2016)

Hey all,

I don't normally comment on here but just to add a brief counter-point, I'm doing pretty well and making a good living writing comedy thrillers. It certainly is very possible to do. The great thing about trad being so anti-comedy is that it leaves big wide-open gaps in the market. Now, you've got to do a good job of stepping into them but it is possible. I also think this idea that British/American/Australian humour doesn't travel is really over-stated. My books sell well in all those markets and as long as you make sure that the references don't lose people, you'll be fine. Don't underestimate the intelligence of your audience. It has to be done well and edited well but it is very possible to make a good living writing funny books. as I mentioned on another thread though, they really do have to be plot and character driven, otherwise you fall into bad writing really easily where things only happen because you've thought of a good line.


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## janiceheadley (Apr 26, 2018)

i like this types of novels...


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