# LOTR Fans: why does the Lord of the Rings continue to fascinate and enchant us?



## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Okay, I'm a Ringer, have been since I was 18 years old and probably still will be when I'm 80 years old. What was it that made me fall in love with this book and made it impossible to forget? Is it the whole imaginary world that Tolkien created? Is it his prose that is poetic in its beauty sometimes, and powerful in its depiction of horror at others? Is it the enduring tale of good triumphing over evil, of ordinary men and women called on to fight an epic battle that threatens their very existence if they don't enlist? Is it Aragorn and Arwen? Or is it Aragorn and Eowyn, Tolkien's original couple before he changed the storyline, but left just enough of it in to hint...did he or didn't he love her? Is it the cuddly hobbits or the crafty wizards? The ethereal elves or the earthy dwarves?

What are your thoughts? Why are _you_ a Ringer?


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I think a big part is Tolkien's obsessive worldbuilding. He built a complete world with attention to all details of life and history and language. The sense of great past events and the feeling that details exist that you will never learn but are still there make it more real than a typical novel. It didn't feel like a made up world.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Chad Winters said:


> I think a big part is Tolkien's obsessive worldbuilding. He built a complete world with attention to all details of life and history and language. The sense of great past events and the feeling that details exist that you will never learn but are still there make it more real than a typical novel. It didn't feel like a made up world.


Absolutely! I loved that aspect of it as well. It made the story seem "real" because of that and increased a sense of urgency by implying that the same events could happen in our own world.


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## kansaskyle (Sep 14, 2010)

I think Frodo and Sam are great atypical heroes.  While they possess courage, strength, and endurance, they are cut from the cloth of more common people rather than being some larger-than-life super heroes with magical powers and/or abilities.  They do their best with what their given, but they ultimately fall a little short.  It is the hand of fate/chance/good/God (you fill in the blank) that helps them save the world!


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

kansaskyle said:


> I think Frodo and Sam are great atypical heroes. While they possess courage, strength, and endurance, they are cut from the cloth of more common people rather than being some larger-than-life super heroes with magical powers and/or abilities. They do their best with what their given, but they ultimately fall a little short. It is the hand of fate/chance/good/God (you fill in the blank) that helps them save the world!


I agree with you on that. One of the things that was mentioned in the book but was passed over in the movie was the fact that Gollum was about to turn to the light only to draw back because of the way Sam treated him. He had come upon Frodo and Sam asleep: Sam had his arm around Frodo protectively and Gollum was deeply moved and struck with a sudden sense of loneliness because he had not had a friend since he murdered his friend Deagol. He reached out to Frodo, calling him "nice master" and touched him just as Sam woke up and thought he was going to hurt him. Sam called him a sneak and was angry with him, and Tolkien states, "The moment passed, never to return." Wow! Makes you think twice about what you say to people as it can have a major impact on their lives.


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

Somehow, I think Tolkien reached down very deep and touched the souls of those who fell in love with the story. At least, that's what I get from it. And "soul" can be anything you want/think it to be.

What else could explain how people from many different walks of life can talk about LOTR without a bother of political or social bent?


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Nancy Beck said:


> Somehow, I think Tolkien reached down very deep and touched the souls of those who fell in love with the story. At least, that's what I get from it. And "soul" can be anything you want/think it to be.
> 
> What else could explain how people from many different walks of life can talk about LOTR without a bother of political or social bent?


And it is magical at breaking down social barriers between people too. I recall going to see the film version of *Return of the King * and as I waited in line I met a lady whose daughter has Down's Syndrome, and I struck up a conversation with them. We chatted for about 10 minutes and the little girl told me her favorite character was Legolas because he was "so cute!" A few months later I went to see it again with a friend of mine, and as we walked into the theater before the film began I bumped into this same lady with her daughter waiting to see it again. We laughed and continued our conversation pretty much where it left off, and pretty soon we had the entire group of people in the theater engaged in one big conversation as we discussed our favorite story. Yes, it truly brings people together!


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

lmroth12 said:


> And it is magical at breaking down social barriers between people too. I recall going to see the film version of *Return of the King * and as I waited in line I met a lady whose daughter has Down's Syndrome, and I struck up a conversation with them. We chatted for about 10 minutes and the little girl told me her favorite character was Legolas because he was "so cute!" A few months later I went to see it again with a friend of mine, and as we walked into the theater before the film began I bumped into this same lady with her daughter waiting to see it again. We laughed and continued our conversation pretty much where it left off, and pretty soon we had the entire group of people in the theater engaged in one big conversation as we discussed our favorite story. Yes, it truly brings people together!


Isn't that just great?  How often do you see that sort of comraderie over a movie or book?


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Nancy Beck said:


> Isn't that just great?  How often do you see that sort of comraderie over a movie or book?


Hardly ever! I heard a story once about an incident that took place shortly after *LOTR * was first released to much controversy. The critics either loved it or hated it. A couple of English journalists who had never met before were interviewing each other over lunch one day, and after discussing all of the topics on the agenda one suddenly leaned toward the other in almost a confidential manner and asked very softly, "I say, do you by any chance read Tolkien?" The face of the other one lit up and he replied, "Why yes, actually, I do." The other one leaned back in his seat with a satisfied smile and simply said, "I thought so." The journalist who related this story said, "We did not say another word, but then, it was hardly necessary, as we each felt we had just met an old friend in a complete stranger."

I can't think of a better way to sum it up than that remark.


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## Dina (May 24, 2013)

I was hooked when my mother first read _The Hobbit_ to me. As I grew, I found the trilogy. After the movie came out (and hello, Viggo!), I delved into them again and found more wisdom as an adult. Tolkein creates an entire world that expands far beyond the actual books' boundaries. Languages, appendices (did I spell that right?) that spawn even more stories, and histories based on this world's mythology. Yet the tale is very human and small-scale. I find myself applying lessons learned from Tolkien in my own neighborhood, more so than most books. You can return over and over again and still find something new to guide and inspire you.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Dina said:


> I was hooked when my mother first read _The Hobbit_ to me. As I grew, I found the trilogy. After the movie came out (and hello, Viggo!), I delved into them again and found more wisdom as an adult. Tolkein creates an entire world that expands far beyond the actual books' boundaries. Languages, appendices (did I spell that right?) that spawn even more stories, and histories based on this world's mythology. Yet the tale is very human and small-scale. I find myself applying lessons learned from Tolkien in my own neighborhood, more so than most books. You can return over and over again and still find something new to guide and inspire you.


That is true. I saw a lot more wisdoms when the films were released because i am a visual person; also I had not read the book in at least 10 years. I grasp a lot from books, but even more when I see things physically enacted. And Peter Jackson also brought out things from the book that we barely noticed, such as the lighting of the beacons which was mentioned in 1 sentence in the book but gloriously illustrated in the movie as a call to take up arms and go to war. I also get something new out of it everytime I read the book or watch the films again.

And yes, you did spell appendices right.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

Besides the world that he built, I loved the characters. They were all larger than life, walking legends. Everyone, besides the hobbits were over the top, powerful people, all with amazing attributes and skills, but it's the hobbits that shine and teach them something by the end of the story.

Also, the Legolas/Gimli bromance was awesome. The movie tried to capture it, but the book did a much better job of showing how big of a deal it was for an elf and a dwarf to get along, much less become great friends. Faramir was such an amazing character in the book too.

I think the movies did an wonderful job bringing such an epic tale to the big screen as well as it did. I mean, I absolutely love the books, but I'm glad some of the fat was trimmed to bring it to life.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> Besides the world that he built, I loved the characters. They were all larger than life, walking legends. Everyone, besides the hobbits were over the top, powerful people, all with amazing attributes and skills, but it's the hobbits that shine and teach them something by the end of the story.
> 
> Also, the Legolas/Gimli bromance was awesome. The movie tried to capture it, but the book did a much better job of showing how big of a deal it was for an elf and a dwarf to get along, much less become great friends. Faramir was such an amazing character in the book too.
> 
> I think the movies did an wonderful job bringing such an epic tale to the big screen as well as it did. I mean, I absolutely love the books, but I'm glad some of the fat was trimmed to bring it to life.


I agree that the characters were unforgettable and far more sharply delineated than in the average fantasy book where they just kind of blend into one another. I mean, to this day I get the Knights of the Round Table mixed up except for Lancelot and Galahad!

I also love the Legolas and Gimli bromance and appreciated the way the movie waited until the third movie for Gimli to admit that he actually _liked_ Legolas. Do you remember that scene? The men of Gondor and Rohan stood together waiting for Aragorn as he challenged the Mouth of Sauron to battle, and as they waited Gimli remarked, "I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an Elf." And Legolas smiled and said, "Well then, how about fighting side by side with a friend." Gimli glanced up at him and said, "Aye, that I could do." Perfect!

And yes, I don't think we absolutely needed to include Tom Bombadil, who to me never really seemed to fit into the book except as a deus ex machina to get the hobbits safely out of the Shire but didn't seem to have any other purpose. My own feeling is that Tolkien only included him at all because he had lived in Middle Earth longer than the Elves, who came to Middle Earth from Valinor but didn't really belong in the world of men. Tom was also rooted more to the Earth and possessed a jolly nature, whereas the Elves were more ethereal and aloof in nature. Tom was also called the Eldest, thus making him a kind of "first man." But since I found him kind of annoying with his constant rhyming I can't say I really missed him, and I don't see that he was truly necessary to the story unless we really, really, _really_ wanted to know who the first man was in Middle Earth.

I did miss Goldberry though, and always thought that Frodo had a crush on her, as he burst into poetic verse the minute he saw her practically and felt joy whenever he saw her and was reluctant to bid her good-bye. It was even stated that when he felt exhilarated at the sight of her he suspected it was not due to a rarefied feeling of beholding something sublime (I am paraphrasing here) so much as it was to a much more common and human cause. In other words, he had a bit of a crush on the fair Lady Goldberry. And that adds some poignancy to Frodo's story because he could have fallen in love with a lass and married just as Sam did had not the Ring and his mission to destroy it cost him his peace of mind to the extent that he could no longer pursue a normal life. Unlike his Uncle Bilbo who was too fond of traveling to settle down, I think Frodo could have had a family life had it not been for the Quest of Mt. Doom.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

For me it is the world. I'd never read anything that was so distant from the world around me.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Brian Spangler said:


> For me it is the world. I'd never read anything that was so distant from the world around me.


I agree that few books have the power to transport you to another time and place as well as LOTR does. You just lose yourself in it, no matter whether you are in the Shire, Rohan, Minas Tirith, or Mordor: it becomes your world.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

lmroth12 said:


> ...I also love the Legolas and Gimli bromance and appreciated the way the movie waited until the third movie for Gimli to admit that he actually _liked_ Legolas. Do you remember that scene? The men of Gondor and Rohan stood together waiting for Aragorn as he challenged the Mouth of Sauron to battle, and as they waited Gimli remarked, "I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an Elf." And Legolas smiled and said, "Well then, how about fighting side by side with a friend." Gimli glanced up at him and said, "Aye, that I could do." Perfect! ...


I love that scene! Yeah I'm glad they cut Bombadil from the scene. As well as the hobbits taking back the Shire. It never seemed necessary to have to put all that in there after they accomplished such an epic mission...quest...thing.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> I love that scene! Yeah I'm glad they cut Bombadil from the scene. As well as the hobbits taking back the Shire. It never seemed necessary to have to put all that in there after they accomplished such an epic mission...quest...thing.


I'm with you, Pippin!


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

I think it's just the unique vastness of Tolkein's vision, the enormity and detail of the world that he creates. And then to have a few small and seemingly insignificant Hobbits wandering across that vast landscape, the fate of that entire world resting on their puny shoulders ... well, it literally gets us rooting for the underdog, the 'little guy.'


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> I love that scene! Yeah I'm glad they cut Bombadil from the scene. As well as the hobbits taking back the Shire. It never seemed necessary to have to put all that in there after they accomplished such an epic mission...quest...thing.


I had mixed feelings, it did seem tacked on and petty after the climax, but I think that was his point. Even if you beat the big evil you still have to go home and deal with the everyday petty evils of man


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Tony Richards said:


> I think it's just the unique vastness of Tolkein's vision, the enormity and detail of the world that he creates. And then to have a few small and seemingly insignificant Hobbits wandering across that vast landscape, the fate of that entire world resting on their puny shoulders ... well, it literally gets us rooting for the underdog, the 'little guy.'


I think that is a _big_ part of its continuing fascination and appeal. We all have something vital to contribute, and if even one of us fails to complete our task the rest will suffer for it. It was more than just Frodo and Sam trekking across the rocks of Mordor to reach Mt. Doom, but also Pippin rescuing Faramir from his mad father, and Merry finding his courage to come to Eowyn's aid to defeat the Witch King when inwardly he wanted to run for his life. Yes, she struck the blow that killed him, but had it not been for Merry stabbing him in the knee and bringing him down to a level where she could thrust her sword into his helmet, she would have been toast. And Eowyn herself was considered of "small" significance being a woman. but it was a woman who was prophesied to bring down the Witch King because he had humiliated the last king of Arnor before the remnants of his army, and being slain by a woman would be his ultimate punishment.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Chad Winters said:


> I had mixed feelings, it did seem tacked on and petty after the climax, but I think that was his point. Even if you beat the big evil you still have to go home and deal with the everyday petty evils of man


I saw it more as the sacrifice that the hobbits made for going to war against Saruman at Isengard. He paid them back by destroying what they loved best. Tolkien served in World War I and lost all but one of his childhood friends in battle, and it is said that he based the hobbits on the ones who fell. To have them return home to a Shire that was nearly destroyed was reality to him because in essence the war had destroyed _his_ boyhood home by taking his friends. And yes, he _did _ have to deal with the everyday evils of men, and this was how he portrayed it in the book.


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## EvilTwinBrian (Jun 20, 2013)

When you put it like that, it's deep, and sends an important message. But when you're reading the book, and not expecting all that, you're coming down off of the high of the fellowship defeating Sauron, and then it just keeps going. It was starting to feel like homework.

I still love the book(s), and hopefully my boys will want to read it (my oldest, 12, reads a lot!).


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

EvilTwinBrian said:


> When you put it like that, it's deep, and sends an important message. But when you're reading the book, and not expecting all that, you're coming down off of the high of the fellowship defeating Sauron, and then it just keeps going. It was starting to feel like homework.
> 
> I still love the book(s), and hopefully my boys will want to read it (my oldest, 12, reads a lot!).


I think a large part of its fascination is its unexpected surprises. For the hobbits to go home and find the Shire nearly destroyed and under occupational forces is NOT the traditional fairy tale ending. Nor is the fact that Frodo, the "hero" if you will, is unable to find peace in the land he never wanted to leave and finds he can only obtain peace of mind by leaving it forever. Nothing will ever top the haunting ending to this book, in my opinion.


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## MGalloway (Jun 21, 2011)

Like others have stated, the character development and world-building are well done in the series. In fact, the other day I was looking through a paperback copy of _The Return of the King_, and marveled at how there were over 140 pages of just appendices alone.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

MGalloway said:


> Like others have stated, the character development and world-building are well done in the series. In fact, the other day I was looking through a paperback copy of _The Return of the King_, and marveled at how there were over 140 pages of just appendices alone.


I think that's why it feels so real. Tolkien worked on just the background alone while in the trenches of World War I and didn't begin the actual writing until just before the outbreak of World War II. Twenty years to create just the imaginary world before ever writing a word. Unbelievable!


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## drenfrow (Jan 27, 2010)

Lot of kindred spirits on this thread!  I agree with what pretty much everyone is saying--for me, it was the world building, this incredible world with its history and languages. From the first time I read the books in my teens I have wanted to inhabit that world. It is also a book that continues to speak to me at different stages in my life; it's one of those that I get something new from each time I read it .

A couple of stories:

In high school (late 70's) I joined some kind of fan club and adored the leather bookmark I got that said "Frodo Lives". A few years later in college I left it in the student union and was heartbroken when no amount of searching or haunting the lost and found turned it up.

I'm still heartbroken over lending out my original set of paperbacks to some philistine 15 years or so ago and never getting them back.

When the third LOTR movie came out several movie theaters in big cities did special showings where they showed the extended versions of the first two movies then an advance screening of the third movie at midnight. A good friend and fellow fan and I tried to get tickets but you had to buy them in person and we live 4.5 hours from the city. My husband (not a fan), who had a few days off, heard us talking on the phone and said "I need new tires anyway, I'll drive there and buy the tickets." Could I love him any more? I'm a teacher and I never take off from school unless I'm collapsed in bed sick, but I took two days off in the middle of the week to drive there and spend two nights at a hotel to experience that event. It was *wonderful*. My friend and I still talk about it.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

drenfrow said:


> Lot of kindred spirits on this thread!
> 
> When the third LOTR movie came out several movie theaters in big cities did special showings where they showed the extended versions of the first two movies then an advance screening of the third movie at midnight. A good friend and fellow fan and I tried to get tickets but you had to buy them in person and we live 4.5 hours from the city. My husband (not a fan), who had a few days off, heard us talking on the phone and said "I need new tires anyway, I'll drive there and buy the tickets." Could I love him any more? I'm a teacher and I never take off from school unless I'm collapsed in bed sick, but I took two days off in the middle of the week to drive there and spend two nights at a hotel to experience that event. It was *wonderful*. My friend and I still talk about it.


I think of all the posters on this thread so far we can bestow upon you the title of Ringer-in-Chief!!!  But I agree with you: there are a LOT of kindred spirits on this thread!


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## drenfrow (Jan 27, 2010)

lmroth12 said:


> I think of all the posters on this thread so far we can bestow upon you the title of Ringer-in-Chief!!!  But I agree with you: there are a LOT of kindred spirits on this thread!


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

drenfrow said:


>


But I wouldn't dream of calling you extreme; impossible when talking about *LOTR*! Except maybe for that lady in *Ringers, Lord of the Fans * who actually mortgaged her house to pay for her plane ticket and hotel stay to attend the New Zealand premiere of *Return of the King* because she just felt she had to be there. That might be bordering on "My precious" Gollum syndrome rather than a true Ringer when it comes down to trading the roof over your head!


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

lmroth12 said:


> But I wouldn't dream of calling you extreme; impossible when talking about *LOTR*! Except maybe for that lady in *Ringers, Lord of the Fans * who actually mortgaged her house to pay for her plane ticket and hotel stay to attend the New Zealand premiere of *Return of the King* because she just felt she had to be there. That might be bordering on "My precious" Gollum syndrome rather than a true Ringer when it comes down to trading the roof over your head!


I wonder what her house was like?

"it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle. The door opened on to a tube-shaped hall like a tunnel: a very comfortable tunnel without smoke, with panelled walls and floors tiled and carpeted, provided with polished chairs, and lots and lots of pegs for hats and coats--the hobbit was fond of visitors. The tunnel wound on and on, going fairly but not quite straight into the side of the hill--The Hill, as all the people for many miles round called it--and many little round doors opened out of it, first on one side and then on another. No going upstairs for the hobbit: bedrooms, bathrooms, cellars, pantries (lots of these), wardrobes (he had whole rooms devoted to clothes), kitchens, dining-rooms, all were on the same floor, and indeed on the same passage. The best rooms were all on the lefthand side (going in), for these were the only ones to have windows, deep-set round windows looking over his garden and meadows beyond, sloping down to the river."


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

I've loved it since I first read it as a young teenager, and have read it every few years since. My wife took me to Oxford for the weekend when I turned 40. Had a pint or two in _The Eagle and Child_ where reputedly Tolkien and C.S. Lewis (another of my literary heroes) drank together. I sat there entranced as though they were chatting away at the next table.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Chad Winters said:


> I wonder what her house was like?
> 
> "it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
> It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle. The door opened on to a tube-shaped hall like a tunnel: a very comfortable tunnel without smoke, with panelled walls and floors tiled and carpeted, provided with polished chairs, and lots and lots of pegs for hats and coats--the hobbit was fond of visitors. The tunnel wound on and on, going fairly but not quite straight into the side of the hill--The Hill, as all the people for many miles round called it--and many little round doors opened out of it, first on one side and then on another. No going upstairs for the hobbit: bedrooms, bathrooms, cellars, pantries (lots of these), wardrobes (he had whole rooms devoted to clothes), kitchens, dining-rooms, all were on the same floor, and indeed on the same passage. The best rooms were all on the lefthand side (going in), for these were the only ones to have windows, deep-set round windows looking over his garden and meadows beyond, sloping down to the river."


Score!


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Sam Kates said:


> I've loved it since I first read it as a young teenager, and have read it every few years since. My wife took me to Oxford for the weekend when I turned 40. Had a pint or two in _The Eagle and Child_ where reputedly Tolkien and C.S. Lewis (another of my literary heroes) drank together. I sat there entranced as though they were chatting away at the next table.


I too would have loved to eavesdrop on a gathering of The Inklings!


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## anguabell (Jan 9, 2011)

There aren't many books that would create such a vast and complex world - the characters, the landscapes, the languages. I like that so many stories in the book are just sketched or briefly mentioned like a hint, left to the reader's imagination.  But above all, the book is so full of hope and friendship, comfort and love in the darkest moments. Despite all the bad things that happen, of which the tragedy of damaged and shell-shocked Frodo is not the least, it is still so uplifting, it has a power to make people feel better, one generation after another. Perhaps it's a proof that of all things in the world, we need hope more than anything else.  
Besides, I like the Ringers. The nicest people imaginable


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

anguabell said:


> There aren't many books that would create such a vast and complex world - the characters, the landscapes, the languages. I like that so many stories in the book are just sketched or briefly mentioned like a hint, left to the reader's imagination. But above all, the book is so full of hope and friendship, comfort and love in the darkest moments. Despite all the bad things that happen, of which the tragedy of damaged and shell-shocked Frodo is not the least, it is still so uplifting, it has a power to make people feel better, one generation after another. Perhaps it's a proof that of all things in the world, we need hope more than anything else.
> Besides, I like the Ringers. The nicest people imaginable


I agree on EVERYTHING you said in this post. And perhaps that the Ringers are the nicest people imaginable is precisely _because_ we feel we need hope more than anything else. Think about this fact: the Fellowship, the Riders of Rohan, and the men of Gondor were always outnumbered in their battles and usually out-tech'd (is that a word?!) by their enemies; yet it was hope that kept them going and pulled them through.

And might I add the heroism of it all. I think of the scene in the movie where the Riders of Rohan, numbering only 6,000 spears coming to the aid of Gondor and facing an army of 200,000 shouting "Death!" and you _know_ that they meant their OWN and not the enemy's...As Eowyn said to Merry before they made their charge, "Courage, Merry; courage for our friends." That scene always makes me cry.


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

Sam Kates said:


> I've loved it since I first read it as a young teenager, and have read it every few years since. My wife took me to Oxford for the weekend when I turned 40. Had a pint or two in _The Eagle and Child_ where reputedly Tolkien and C.S. Lewis (another of my literary heroes) drank together. I sat there entranced as though they were chatting away at the next table.


Yes, yes, yes! Was there too, back in 1997! Took pictures of the quotes/whatever on the walls. To think he used to go there and regale his fellow Inklings...dang, it makes you wish you were living there at the time, to listen in.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Nancy Beck said:


> Yes, yes, yes! Was there too, back in 1997! Took pictures of the quotes/whatever on the walls. To think he used to go there and regale his fellow Inklings...dang, it makes you wish you were living there at the time, to listen in.


Can you imagine what a gathering of the Inklings must have been like, with Tolkien and C. S. Lewis _both_ contributors? I have a friend who also visited their haunts; he said it was one of the greatest experiences of his life. He is also a writer and he said that for him it was like going on a pilgrimage!


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

lmroth12 said:


> Can you imagine what a gathering of the Inklings must have been like, with Tolkien and C. S. Lewis _both_ contributors? I have a friend who also visited their haunts; he said it was one of the greatest experiences of his life. He is also a writer and he said that for him it was like going on a pilgrimage!


Must've been fun and boisterous!  Pilgrimage? Yeah, I think so!


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

While I was in Oxford in another pub (I didn't spend the whole weekend in pubs, honest) a group of crusty and dusty old dons took the table next to ours and proceeded to discuss Shakespeare. They looked so ancient that I imagined they might have been contemporaries of Tolkien - the pub itself was ancient so it wasn't much of an imaginative leap. I sat there unashamedly eavesdropping. It was like stepping back in time. Magical.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Sam Kates said:


> While I was in Oxford in another pub (I didn't spend the whole weekend in pubs, honest) a group of crusty and dusty old dons took the table next to ours and proceeded to discuss Shakespeare. They looked so ancient that I imagined they might have been contemporaries of Tolkien - the pub itself was ancient so it wasn't much of an imaginative leap. I sat there unashamedly eavesdropping. It was like stepping back in time. Magical.


I bet it _was_ magical! And even if you _had _ spend the whole weekend in pubs, I am enough of an Anglophile to realize that in the U.K. a pub isn't really the equivalent of a bar in the States as some erroneously assume. Rather, it is the abbreviation for the "public house" where a traveler or someone who lived in a boarding house and could not cook went to get a decent meal. It is really more equivalent to the American inn than the American bar. 

And these days they host a lot of meetings in pubs. I had an employer who visited Ireland on "holiday" as they say in the U.K., and decided to visit a local group of Lions, the club he belongs to in the States. Wouldn't you know it; they held their meetings in pubs. And this very conservative former minister (seriously, he was) braved the idea of going into a pub where he would never set foot in a bar in the States, and had a great time with the wild Irish who loved the impromptu visit from an American and toasted him with tea! And in my mind's eye, I saw an image of the younger hobbits (a.k.a., Merry and Pippin) teasing a rather stuffy Proudfoot!


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

Sam Kates said:


> While I was in Oxford in another pub (I didn't spend the whole weekend in pubs, honest) a group of crusty and dusty old dons took the table next to ours and proceeded to discuss Shakespeare. They looked so ancient that I imagined they might have been contemporaries of Tolkien - the pub itself was ancient so it wasn't much of an imaginative leap. I sat there unashamedly eavesdropping. It was like stepping back in time. Magical.


What Imroth said about pubs.  I happen to live not too far from a British-style pub - one of the owners is British, and yes, I'm an Anglophile! (How could I not when my fave beer of all time is Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, among other things? ::drool

After all, there's plenty of talk about beer in LOTR. 

And isn't the Great British Beer Festival on? It usually takes place the first 2 weeks in August. Just sayin'.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Nancy Beck said:


> What Imroth said about pubs.  I happen to live not too far from a British-style pub - one of the owners is British, and yes, I'm an Anglophile! (How could I not when my fave beer of all time is Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, among other things? ::drool
> 
> After all, there's plenty of talk about beer in LOTR.


No doubt because of those meetings of the Inklings over a pint!


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Nancy Beck said:


> What Imroth said about pubs.  I happen to live not too far from a British-style pub - one of the owners is British, and yes, I'm an Anglophile! (How could I not when my fave beer of all time is Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout, among other things? ::drool
> 
> After all, there's plenty of talk about beer in LOTR.
> 
> And isn't the Great British Beer Festival on? It usually takes place the first 2 weeks in August. Just sayin'.


My favorite beer is the Sam Smith Nut Brown Ale!!


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## Ben Finn (Mar 4, 2013)

Chad Winters said:


> I think a big part is Tolkien's obsessive worldbuilding. He built a complete world with attention to all details of life and history and language. The sense of great past events and the feeling that details exist that you will never learn but are still there make it more real than a typical novel. It didn't feel like a made up world.


Could not said it any better!


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Ben Finn said:


> Could not said it any better!


Something that all fantasy writers need to pay heed to: treat your fictional story as a history that REALLY happened! Whimsy is magical, but it should feel like it is rooted in reality and not just made up from the author's imagination and will fall apart at the first ray of daylight.


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## drenfrow (Jan 27, 2010)

Tor.com has an excellent website and e-newsletter. They just started a new series of articles called Story Worlds and of course the first book they are profiling is LOTR.  It's a two part article. The first part is here:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/story-worlds-lord-of-the-rings-tolkien-middle-earth-part-1#


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

drenfrow said:


> Tor.com has an excellent website and e-newsletter. They just started a new series of articles called Story Worlds and of course the first book they are profiling is LOTR.  It's a two part article. The first part is here:
> 
> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/story-worlds-lord-of-the-rings-tolkien-middle-earth-part-1#


Sounds great! Perhaps you could start a thread on this in The Book Corner so more fans are aware of it!


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

drenfrow said:


> Tor.com has an excellent website and e-newsletter. They just started a new series of articles called Story Worlds and of course the first book they are profiling is LOTR.  It's a two part article. The first part is here:
> 
> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/08/story-worlds-lord-of-the-rings-tolkien-middle-earth-part-1#


Thanks for the link - looks like a great article.


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## drenfrow (Jan 27, 2010)

lmroth12 said:


> Sounds great! Perhaps you could start a thread on this in The Book Corner so more fans are aware of it!


Done!


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

drenfrow said:


> Done!


Good for you; a true Ringer!


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Came across an old notebook today in which, for a couple of years, I recorded the books I read as a teenager. I finished reading LOTR in February 1980, when I was 15. I gave it 5 stars. I read it again the following summer. I'd forgotten all about that notebook - coming across it again is like encountering a young, naive version of me. Weird.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Sam Kates said:


> Came across an old notebook today in which, for a couple of years, I recorded the books I read as a teenager. I finished reading LOTR in February 1980, when I was 15. I gave it 5 stars. I read it again the following summer. I'd forgotten all about that notebook - coming across it again is like encountering a young, naive version of me. Weird.


Amazing how often February factors into* LOTR * memories for me. I saw the animated Bashki version on my birthday (as a birthday present from my brother) in February 1979, and *The Return of the King * became the first fantasy film to win the Oscar for Best Picture on my birthday in February 2004. And how often do birthdays factor into *LOTR*! Gollum took the Ring on his birthday; Bilbo gave the Ring to Frodo on their joint birthday, and so on. So I definitely feel a "birthday" connection to this fabulous work of epic fiction!


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

I avoided the animated version for many years because I was aware that they hadn't filmed the whole book. (I always think of it as one book.) I watched it at last a year or so ago. My instinct had been right - only filming part of it was unsatisfying.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Sam Kates said:


> I avoided the animated version for many years because I was aware that they hadn't filmed the whole book. (I always think of it as one book.) I watched it at last a year or so ago. My instinct had been right - only filming part of it was unsatisfying.


True, it was, and the successive *Return of the King * by Rankin Bass was one of the worst movies I have ever seen. But it was the animated Bashki version that turned me on to the book as I had never heard of it before. My interest in seeing the movie was solely due to the new method that was used to film it (I am an amateur photographer) but it was the story that enthralled me and sold me on reading the books.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

I've developed the habit of rereading these books when times are tough and I've got about as much stress as I can handle. It's more than escapism - though that certainly helps. There's something about the overall message of maintaining hope against tough odds that refreshes me.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Thomas Watson said:



> I've developed the habit of rereading these books when times are tough and I've got about as much stress as I can handle. It's more than escapism - though that certainly helps. There's something about the overall message of maintaining hope against tough odds that refreshes me.


I agree with you: hope is vital. But I have always found another aspect of this book that resonated in me from the first time I read it and it is this: none of us can stand alone. Think about it; Frodo would never have made it to Mount Doom without Sam because at some point Gollum would probably have succeeded in killing him, Eowyn could not have killed the Witch King without Merry first stabbing him in the knee to bring him down to a level where she could strike his head, Aragorn could not have become king without the wise guidance of Gandolf and the support of Eomer and the men of Rohan and Gondor.

We are not designed to be alone, and part of the magic of this book is the fact that there are no "super" heroes, but each character has a friend who encourages them or a hero who inspires them, and that hero in turn draws strength from a mentor. Those who did not depend on another failed. Saruman fell into evil because he refused the counsel of his fellow wizards and foolishly thought he could "handle" Sauron to achieve his own purposes, rather similar to Boromir who fell into the temptation to try to take the Ring to use it to save his city.

And I think a part of its continuing appeal is that all of the characters are human and some of them very flawed, yet when the need arises, they are able to go beyond their limitations and do heroic deeds because the emergency of the moment demands that they do so in order to save others. And I think it sends a message to the reader: if a hobbit can leave his comfort zone to do what is necessary to fight evil, if a woman who was told to stay out of the fight can bring down a fearful enemy, if an army who is hopelessly outnumbered can ride to the defense of an ebattled city, then maybe I too can do more than I thought possible to go through this trial, come to the aid of that friend, make it through a time of mourning, etc., and it enlarges our sense of self and encourages us to just HANG ON!


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

And of course, the pity of Bilbo to NOT slay Gollum when he had the chance turned out to help Frodo...and Frodo in turn did the same.

Gollum sure came in handy when Frodo could not just throw the Ring into the fire...


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Nancy Beck said:


> And of course, the pity of Bilbo to NOT slay Gollum when he had the chance turned out to help Frodo...and Frodo in turn did the same.
> 
> Gollum sure came in handy when Frodo could not just throw the Ring into the fire...


Yep. Shows how much we ALL need each other!


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

And not always in ways we might expect.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Thomas Watson said:


> And not always in ways we might expect.


Exactly!


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