# The new dashboard is up for KU2



## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

{Gone}


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

It looks so strange with no blue line with the red and greens.

"It begins..."


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2015)

Its a pain... I have a nice blue line but to see which book has/is being read I need to change the report to individual books and go through all the titles until I find the one that is matching the blue line. 

Not sure at the moment how it is recorded. Is it updated hourly? Did someone read x amount of pages and then quit or in another 15 minutes will the blue line rise as it records the next few pages read? 

When first introduced a lot of people seemed excited that they would be able to see where people stopped reading their books and that doesn't seem to be the case. Now, it looks like we are just going to have a blue line with a total number of pages read per day over all of your books and no idea if / when someone stopped reading a book or completed it.


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## Joe Mynhardt (Apr 26, 2015)

Now I'll sit and stare at the screen for the first bit of change on that blue line.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Okay, what happened to borrows I had, I will still get paid for those somewhere along the way I hope. Wasn't much but they're mine


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

PaulineMRoss said:


> The pages read numbers are in a separate graph, and borrows have gone (still in the Excel reports, of course). No idea where the actual page counts for the books might be.


Have you looked at the actual report. That has a column for pages read, but mine is still showing June, although my blue line is in July. So no pages read showing yet on the report column, but nearly 500 on the blue line. Very confusing for my poor old brain.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Crystal Lake Publishing said:


> Now I'll sit and stare at the screen for the first bit of change on that blue line.


Nah, I might get a page read next week or next month. I'm pretty pessimistic lately


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I get an error message and they're working on it.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing but my page count with the new page counting tool they are using is actually more than what is on the product page. On the product page one of my shorts is listed at 27 pages but as 43 with knepc or whatever it is.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Okay. Now it's up. It says I have 26,538 pages read. Where are you guys seeing the page numbers?


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## bundtbaby (Jul 22, 2014)

Maximillion said:


> Not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing but my page count with the new page counting tool they are using is actually more than what is on the product page. On the product page one of my shorts is listed at 27 pages but as 43 with knepc or whatever it is.


but couldn't that mean your book was read more than once?

Has anyone's blue line moved up since the numbers appeared at midnight? just trying to get a sense of how often it updates.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Maximillion said:


> Not sure if it is a good thing or a bad thing but my page count with the new page counting tool they are using is actually more than what is on the product page. On the product page one of my shorts is listed at 27 pages but as 43 with knepc or whatever it is.


Same here with my novels. I can also confirm that the monthly report shows which books have had pages read and how many. So not the confusion I feared. It is exciting, folks.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

bundtbaby said:


> but couldn't that mean your book was read more than once?
> 
> Has anyone's blue line moved up since the numbers appeared at midnight? just trying to get a sense of how often it updates.


Yes, it could mean the same book is being read by more than one person. Amanda, the page numbers are on the borrows graph, under the normal graph and on the monthly reports.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Okay. Now it's up. It says I have 26,538 pages read. Where are you guys seeing the page numbers?


If you are trying to see how man pages each of your books has you have to click on the book (like when you edit) and then click KDP Select Benefits. You'll see something like this: Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v1.0: 185


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I must be a total idiot. I see the graph for total pages read but I can't figure out where you guys are getting how many pages Amazon is listing individual books at.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Maximillion said:


> If you are trying to see how man pages each of your books has you have to click on the book (like when you edit) and then click KDP Select Benefits. You'll see something like this: Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v1.0: 185


Ah, thank you so much.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

bundtbaby said:


> but couldn't that mean your book was read more than once?
> 
> Has anyone's blue line moved up since the numbers appeared at midnight? just trying to get a sense of how often it updates.


Mine did right after I reported my first numbers. They jumped another 1,500. I have no idea what the regular timeframe will be. This will be distracting.


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## Penang (Jun 28, 2011)

Well, my numbers have moved up since the first update. However I still can't find out how many pages each book is.


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

Maximillion said:


> If you are trying to see how man pages each of your books has you have to click on the book (like when you edit) and then click KDP Select Benefits. You'll see something like this: Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v1.0: 185


Hmm, I don't see KENPC there.


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## Penang (Jun 28, 2011)

darkline said:


> Hmm, I don't see KENPC there.


I'm not seeing it either


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I must be a total idiot. I see the graph for total pages read but I can't figure out where you guys are getting how many pages Amazon is listing individual books at.


In the month to date report.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

M.B. Ryther said:


> Oh for the good old days, when a person bought a book and the author was paid for it.


That hasn't changed. If someone buys a book, you get your royalties, the sale is reported straight away as an order anyway. What are you talking about?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Nope, not seeing anything different from the way it was before.


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## Penang (Jun 28, 2011)

Okay, so my new graph disappeared, and there is no monthly report any more :/


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

darkline said:


> Hmm, I don't see KENPC there.


I don't either. FAQ says it should be on the promotion and advertising page - gods know why they'd put it there - but all I see are my scheduled countdown deals.


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## Penang (Jun 28, 2011)

Dragovian said:


> I don't either. FAQ says it should be on the promotion and advertising page - gods know why they'd put it there - but all I see are my scheduled countdown deals.


That's exactly what I was thinking


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I think they're working out some glitches. My old dashboard is back, lol. I should probably go to bed and be wowed and surprised tomorrow.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

darkline said:


> Hmm, I don't see KENPC there.


Is your book enrolled in KU? It won't show for books not in KU. Seems stupid. I believe Joe Nobody mentioned this potential shortcoming in another thread. Why would an author enroll their book not knowing how many KENPC pages it is??


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

On the up side, they're still doing better than B&N's new site.


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

Maximillion said:


> Is your book enrolled in KU? It won't show for books not in KU. Seems stupid. I believe Joe Nobody mentioned this potential shortcoming in another thread. Why would an author enroll their book not knowing how many KENPC pages it is??


Of course my books are enrolled in KU. Otherwise I wouldn't care about KU. 
Anyway, the new graph disappeared completely for me.


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## Penang (Jun 28, 2011)

Maximillion said:


> Is your book enrolled in KU? It won't show for books not in KU. Seems stupid. I believe Joe Nobody mentioned this potential shortcoming in another thread. Why would an author enroll their book not knowing how many KENPC pages it is??


So, where exactly on the KDP Select Benefits page are you finding this info?


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

darkline said:


> Of course my books are enrolled in KU. Otherwise I wouldn't care about KU.
> Anyway, the new graph disappeared completely for me.


My apologizes.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

darkline said:


> Of course my books are enrolled in KU. Otherwise I wouldn't care about KU.
> Anyway, the new graph disappeared completely for me.


Not only did the new graph vanish, my blue line is now roughly 3 times as thick as my red line.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Mine was there for like 60 seconds and disappeared again. I guess they're still working on it.


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

I guess Yoda's bazillion pages read maxed everything out and crashed the system, and they've had to roll back.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Usually, my borrow count stops at around 8pm EST. I usually see a big jump around 3AM the next day. I guess those will be counted in the new system.


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## Vesela (Jan 2, 2013)

I had the new dashboard an hour ago and now I`m back to the old one...


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## Mxz (Jan 17, 2015)

Mine is back to the old one too.  I'm guessing they are trying to make changes.


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## ufwriter (Jan 12, 2015)

My old graph is back, but I managed to find the estimated page count. It looks like it's higher than what they have on product pages. For Bone Dry, my paperback is 372 pages, but the KNEPC is 470.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

CadyVance said:


> My old graph is back, but I managed to find the estimated page count. It looks like it's higher than what they have on product pages. For Bone Dry, my paperback is 372 pages, but the KNEPC is 470.


Well, if the payout is indeed a penny than you can potentially earn as much as you would if if were priced at $6.99. And if your read through is only 50% you still earn more than the $2.05 royalty. Looks like a win. I'm starting to thing that the payout will indeed be slightly higher than a penny.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

katrina46 said:


> Mine was there for like 60 seconds and disappeared again. I guess they're still working on it.


I am a patient person and I am allowing Amazon to get everything ready before I check and analyse. I am not a person who checks my dashboard more than once or twice a week, it would drive me mad to keep checking.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

Found my page count. The book went from 105 on the product page to 182. It has about 31,000 words.

I always felt like the product page estimation was a little low because I've seen other books with similar counts that had many more pages listed. But this might actually be a little high. Doesn't really matter in this case, I guess, as long as it measures everybody fairly.



mica said:


> I am a patient person and I am allowing Amazon to get everything ready before I check and analyse. I am not a person who checks my dashboard more than once or twice a week, it would drive me mad to keep checking.


I sort of wish I was the same. I'll be refreshing all night, and probably half the day tomorrow before I finally go to bed and do my best vampire impersonation.

Luckily, I'm done with writing for the night, and had a pretty decent day.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Maximillion said:


> Well, if the payout is indeed a penny than you can potentially earn as much as you would if if were priced at $6.99. And if your read through is only 50% you still earn more than the $2.05 royalty. Looks like a win. I'm starting to thing that the payout will indeed be slightly higher than a penny.


My omnibus is showing at 982 pages and its sale price is $8.99, so I will be better off if it is borrowed. I don't think this is likely, so 1p a page is a little optimistic.


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## LifesHumor (Feb 5, 2014)

CadyVance said:


> My old graph is back, but I managed to find the estimated page count. It looks like it's higher than what they have on product pages. For Bone Dry, my paperback is 372 pages, but the KNEPC is 470.


My count is 73. 
The file is 49 pages and the estimate on the sales page is 39. Fun fact, the file is 73KB.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I'm thinking I won't get a page read for a long while.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

The page counts are much bigger (much, much bigger) than I was expecting. I thought my pen name books (which are all between 55,000-60,000 words) would be between 200-250 pages. They're all reading at between 350-400 pages. That's a significant shift to my estimates. Now I need to see how many page reads I can average in a day.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Doglover said:


> My omnibus is showing at 982 pages and its sale price is $8.99, so I will be better off if it is borrowed. I don't think this is likely, so 1p a page is a little optimistic.


You may be right. Even my shorts (8500~ words) are averaging 45 pages. I'd earn $0.45 instead of $0.35. But maybe it could be a penny. If there are tons of BS ebooks/pamphets that money shifts. Also, I'm making almost a dollar less if the short is read all the way. And then we have to consider the read through. With those three things maybe a penny a page makes sense.


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## David Penny (Jun 8, 2014)

This looks interesting. One of my books which on the sale site shows as 57 pages, using the Kindle normalized page count is showing as 80. I guess this is because I never tried to game the system by padding it with extra spaces or large fonts. And this after all the cries of anguish about Zon would be cutting page counts back hard.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

This massive upward shift in pagecount means the price per page is going to be lower I guess, although it doesn't matter since the same amount of money will be paid regardless. 

I was thinking 2+ cents a page would be more likely. Now I guess 1.5+ or 1.3+ cents would be the rough equivalent with the overall number of pages in the system increasing.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm getting this message on one of my titles, The Wedding Night.  "The Start Reading Location for your book has not been set yet. It is typically set within 72 hours from the time you publish your book, or enroll in KDP Select. When it is set your book's KENPC v1.0 may change."

Eh?  The title's been out for a few years now, and it's currently in Select and has been in Select for a long time.  Still a few bugs in the system, I see.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Avis Black said:


> I'm getting this message on one of my titles, The Wedding Night. "The Start Reading Location for your book has not been set yet. It is typically set within 72 hours from the time you publish your book, or enroll in KDP Select. When it is set your book's KENPC v1.0 may change."
> 
> Eh? The title's been out for a few years now, and it's currently in Select and has been in Select for a long time. Still a few bugs in the system, I see.


My omnibus says the same.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Reading this thread has completely frazzled what was left of my nerves!

It's early (not quite 6 a.m. here) and of course I checked my KDP dashboard to see the new thing, and... it looks the same. Except I have no borrows recorded today. Which would be logical, except that every day I always have a little handful of borrows that carried over from the day before. 

Then I read this thread and people are saying the "new" dashboard is here, only there's no activity on mine at all, so I decide I might as well start drinking right now... then I keep reading and people are saying the new dashboard is gone, so I think maybe I don't need to add whiskey to my coffee just yet... then yay the normalized page counts are so high... then Amazon has warnings about how they'll probably change the page count...

It's gonna be a very, very long day today.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Reading this thread has completely frazzled what was left of my nerves!
> 
> It's early (not quite 6 a.m. here) and of course I checked my KDP dashboard to see the new thing, and... it looks the same. Except I have no borrows recorded today. Which would be logical, except that every day I always have a little handful of borrows that carried over from the day before.
> 
> ...


I had the same reaction. "Everyone has the new dashboard but me! What's wrong with me"
Then I read that it went back to the old version for most people. Whew.


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## Irelandsgirl1157 (May 17, 2013)

Will C. Brown said:


> I had the same reaction. "Everyone has the new dashboard but me! What's wrong with me"
> Then I read that it went back to the old version for most people. Whew.


I still have the old dashboard too but with no borrows.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Showed up for an hour, had 95 pages read, and then it vanished. Not even in KU anymore lol


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

I still have the same old dash board.  It will happen when it's meant to, no sense getting stressed-I'd rather get back to my writing.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

old dashboard, but the books I currently have in KU don't exactly get a lot of borrows/reads so I assumed it was that.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

It just popped up again, at least for me. I missed it last time, so this is my first look at it. I don't like that I can't see my old borrows anymore.


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## J.A. Sutherland (Apr 1, 2014)

On the page count being higher than expected, Amazon said they were calculating the page count with a standard font, line, etc. None of which would be necessary if it was a simple x-words = pages. So your writing style is going to impact page count, I think. Lots of one-line dialog equals more pages than dense paragraphs as it renders on the device. So I'd expect some odd differences.

That said, however, I can't explain the differences in page count between my two. I took all the back and front matter out so that it would be only the story text and checked Word:

Into the Dark
87000 words
152 pages in Word
497 pages KENPC

Mutineer
93000 words
160 pages in Word
374 pages KENPC


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

JA, your page counts in word seem very low. I'd put 87k at over 300 pages, and Mutineer at almost 400. Strange though that KENPC has more than 100 pages for the shorter book! I'd guess it was more dialogue, but if that were the case the word pages would be higher.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

So, it's obvious the new way they're counting pages is resulting in smaller pages and more pages per book. Which is going to push down the royalty per page but inflate our pages read counts. 

Interesting. This is going to make the anticipation of the actual royalty per page that much more intense.

I have a sales tracker program, and now I'm not sure what to put in as an estimate for page royalty.  I was going to use a penny, thinking that was low, but now I'm not sure.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

I write children's books which are illustrated with beautiful artwork. These are not clip art illustrations and a book usually takes 8 to 12 months to produce. My KENP is 40 and considering that children's books already sell much less than books for adults this is devastating.


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

'Technical issues'


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

Well this is weird. Don't usually get borrows but someone has borrowed three different translated short stories in Brazil via KNEP

When I first viewed the graph there were no pages read, a few minutes later there were 3 pages read. It will be interesting to find out how often it is updated.


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## ketosis (Apr 19, 2013)

Did anyone else notice that at the bottom, under the Select stuff, it says the fund for July is 11 million?


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## funthebear (Sep 26, 2014)

When you get an error, just click the Reports at the top of the page again. And make sure the url ends with kdp_REP_TN_rp

BN is the old one.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

*MY STATS:*

_Devils Lair_
69,998 words
34 chapters
Longer paragraphs
On product page: 265 pages
KENPC: 305 pages

_Blood Alley_
50,548 words
50 chapters
Shorter paragraphs
On product page: 227 pages
KENPC: 344 pages

*MY TAKEAWAYS:*

Number of page breaks makes a difference.
_Write more and shorter chapters, with page breaks._

Number of lines makes a difference.
_Writer shorter paragraphs._


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

Well, this is interesting. All three borrows today in Brazil of my translated shorts have gained immediate rankings. They got (paid)  rankings without any pages being read. Last I looked three pages had been read, then the page crashed. It wouldn't take many borrows to enter the top 100 in Brazil by the looks of it, or a few number 1s in the category ranks.

I assume it will be the same for US and other territory borrows.


Amnesia do Caracâo (Amnesia of the Heart)

Lista de mais vendidos da Amazon: #2,827 entre os mais vendidos na Loja Kindle (Conheca os 100 mais vendidos na Loja Kindle) 
-	#3 em Livros > Fantasia, Horror e Ficcão Cientifica > Horror > Fantasmas 
-	#112 em Loja Kindle > eBooks Kindle > Crime, Suspense e Misterio 
-	#1219 em Livros > Literatura e Ficcão 

Esconde Esconde (Hide and Seek)

Lista de mais vendidos da Amazon: #2,833 entre os mais vendidos na Loja Kindle (Conheca os 100 mais vendidos na Loja Kindle) 
-	#4 em Livros > Fantasia, Horror e Ficcão Cientifica > Horror > Fantasmas 
-	#114 em Loja Kindle > eBooks Kindle > Crime, Suspense e Misterio 
-	#1222 em Livros > Literatura e Ficcão 

Bagagem Perdida (Lost Baggage)
Lista de mais vendidos da Amazon: #2,831 entre os mais vendidos na Loja Kindle (Conheca os 100 mais vendidos na Loja Kindle) 
-	#2 em Livros > Educacão , Referência e Didaticos > Escolas e Ensino > Teoria da Educacão > Metodos Contemporâneos > Abordagem de Experience Linguistica 
-	#41 em Loja Kindle > eBooks Kindle > Sociedade e Ciências Sociais > Educacão 
-	#59 em Loja Kindle > eBooks Kindle > Acão e Aventura


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

All my books have increased in page count for KNEP the same as David's books.


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## danpadavona (Sep 25, 2014)

Here are my page count comparisons:

Dark Vanishings 1  Amazon Length: 231 pages  KENPC: 326 pages
Dark Vanishings 2  Amazon Length: 191 pages  KENPC: 339 pages
Storberry              Amazon Length: 354 pages  KENPC: 632 pages (!!!)
The Island            Amazon Length:  58 pages  KENPC: 77 pages

In total, KENPC estimated a 64.5% increase over the Amazon length. So I suspect one of two things will happen: the pay per page read will drop lower than anticipated, or the KENPC page count will be brought more into line with the Amazon page count. Or both. 

I feel this has the potential to be a very positive move for readers and writers. I think the next logical step is some sort of credit based borrowing system. One borrow for a novel is a much better deal for the borrower than one borrow for a 20 page short story. Maybe allow multiple short story borrows per month up to a certain page count?

Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Will C. Brown said:


> I had the same reaction. "Everyone has the new dashboard but me! What's wrong with me"
> Then I read that it went back to the old version for most people. Whew.


Loads of fun, ain't it...

Want some whiskey? I've got Jack and Canadian Ltd. (also orange vodka, but I'm out of cranberry juice...)


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## cblewgolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Are the page counts books that have been borrowed today and read today? Or they could've been borrowed a week ago and just started today? Confused but it's actually kind of interesting.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

I have never seen this big of a number on my dashboard. 400...pages. But at least it looks like someone read my first novel and maybe went on to read my second novel (but didn't quite finish this book). I think looking at big numbers like this is going to mess with my head.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

The new dashboard is real. I cannot report as many pages read as Yoda. Yoda is scary.

Amazon's methods for calculating pages have always seemed inconsistent and bizarre, but the good news is that it should be equally inconsistent and bizarre for everybody. Adding things like illustrations, fleurons, paragraph breaks, section breaks, chapter breaks, &c., very well might help pad your page counts, but so would writing more words. Or more books. Try to content yourselves with the notion that we're all in the same boat and don't overthink this.

Besides, why worry about tailoring things to the KENP algo when the algos always change? _*The algos always change*_ is the one thing we know for certain. Make books that humans like, and let the fickle robots make of them what they will.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

I've finally got the new dashboard and in the process lost my one and lonely borrow from early June. I need to write more for KU, although I doubt I will ever have Yoda's midichlorian count.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

It's a bit annoying I can't see the KENPC for my book on pre-order...


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## Indiecognito (May 19, 2014)

I have 25K read on one book. 

I don't think my brain can handle those digits. I feel my head inflating, and for no good reason whatsoever.


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## noob (Dec 11, 2014)

i really 
don't think

this 

will change

writing styles

at

(chapter break)

all


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

B. Yard said:


> It's a bit annoying I can't see the KENPC for my book on pre-order...


I was about to say the same thing. I have a book out in two weeks, it's final, so I'm not going to change it. Maybe it won't update until it's gone past the final upload deadline?


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## noob (Dec 11, 2014)

.4 cents a page is my guess for payout, based on nothing more than pre-coffee pessimism and that's what it would take to get my books in line with former borrow rates. anything higher and i make more per book than former borrows, assuming full read through.

the 'thousands of pages read' number makes me feel gooey inside, but man do i wish we could see where readers stopped reading. that trend over time would be invaluable and totally new in terms of info writers have to work with. particularly if you write to genre convention and want to see if a particular spot is bucking readers


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## Bella Breen (May 24, 2015)

If we get .01 per page read, this is going to suck big time.  I have 451 pages read for $4.51.


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## bbhamel (Feb 11, 2015)

Well, my one book, Kinged, is apparently only 1 page long. it's a 60k novel. Anyone else having this problem?


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2015)

I'm getting paid £3.20 for a 99p book that's free elsewhere and therefore free on Amazon's pricematch. It's not in KDP Select Go figure that one. ?

Also, if we are going to be paid 1 cent per page (and I believe its going to be less than that and BookReport doesn't go into fractions) I'm going to retire.


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## BelleB (Oct 21, 2014)

Is it once a day or more often?  Of course this being the first day no one may know.  I hope I didn't miss this answer earlier in the thread.


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## noob (Dec 11, 2014)

is my math wrong?

i have a 67k novel. that's 388 zonpages according to their new system 

at .01c payout per zonpage i'm earning $3.88 per borrow assuming full read through. that's GOOD.

i also have a 112k novel. 663 zonpages. at .01c  payout is $6.63. that's GREAT.

no way it'll be a full cent a page at these numbers.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

noob said:


> is my math wrong?
> 
> i have a 67k novel. that's 388 zonpages according to their new system
> 
> ...


I'd guess at 0.005


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## Wolfpack (Jun 20, 2013)

Maximillion said:


> If you are trying to see how man pages each of your books has you have to click on the book (like when you edit) and then click KDP Select Benefits. You'll see something like this: Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v1.0: 185


Thank you.


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

Where are you folks finding your KENP page totals for your books? I'm looking all over and not finding it.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

joyceharmon said:


> Where are you folks finding your KENP page totals for your books? I'm looking all over and not finding it.


You have to click on the "Promote and advertise" button next to individual titles on the Bookshelf, and then scroll down. At the bottom there's a section called "Earn royalties from the KDP Select Global Fund," and under that text is your KENPC (Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count)...


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## funthebear (Sep 26, 2014)

blubarry said:


> With information from an e-mail from KDP today, the June payout will be at least $11M and 1.9 billion KENPs were read during June. If my math is correct, that would be $0.0058 per page. With the longer than expected KENPC, this makes sense. Still hoping for $0.01 at least, but that's looking less likely.


What email? I haven't received one. Can you post the full email?


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## Lucas (Jul 15, 2014)

joyceharmon said:


> Where are you folks finding your KENP page totals for your books? I'm looking all over and not finding it.


Click "edit details" of your book, and when the next page is finished loading, you'll see "kdp select benefits" on the upper right corner next to "royalty and pricing".
*****

The numbers... There's so many numbers!
The longest book I have is 600+ pages, in KENPC it's 1100... I think I'll try and sacrifice 90 days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tknite (Feb 18, 2014)

blubarry said:


> With information from an e-mail from KDP today, the June payout will be at least $11M and 1.9 billion KENPs were read during June. If my math is correct, that would be $0.0058 per page. With the longer than expected KENPC, this makes sense. Still hoping for $0.01 at least, but that's looking less likely.


That's also the math I came up with based on that email. That would be roughly $1.74 for 300 pages, $2.03 for 350 pages, and $2.32 for 400 pages. Shorts would net...not so much.


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## ThePete (Oct 10, 2013)

funthebear said:


> What email? I haven't received one. Can you post the full email?


It's on the KDP support forum. Awesome that they're sharing info all of a sudden. Key highlights:
June hypothetical per page payout:	$0.0058
June Average pages read per qualified borrow:	237.5

_Hello,

In mid-June, we announced a change to the way we will pay for authors' participation in Kindle Unlimited (KU) and the Kindle Owners' Lending Library (KOLL). Starting today, the payout of the KDP Select Global Fund will be based on the number of pages KU and KOLL customers read.

In mid-July, we will post results for the fund in June, expected to be at least $11M, making June the largest monthly payout so far. As previously announced, the KDP Select fund for July and August will also be at least $11M.

KDP authors can now see the Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC V1.0) for each of their KDP Select titles on the "Promote and Advertise" page in their Bookshelf. Please keep in mind that, because it is based on settings specific to this program and intended to normalize the count across all KDP Select titles, KENPC may well vary from page counts listed on a book's Amazon detail page or page counts for a print book. As measured using KENPC, during the month of June, KU and KOLL customers read nearly 1.9 billion Kindle Edition Normalized Pages (KENPs) of KDP Select books.

For information about how we determine a book's Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC V1.0), you can read more here.

We welcome your continued feedback and ideas about how we can further improve Kindle Direct Publishing and Kindle Unlimited.

Best Regards,

The Kindle Direct Publishing Team_


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> You have to click on the "Promote and advertise" button next to individual titles on the Bookshelf, and then scroll down. At the bottom there's a section called "Earn royalties from the KDP Select Global Fund," and under that text is your KENPC (Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count)...


Oh, THERE it is! And wow have my page counts gone up!


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## noob (Dec 11, 2014)

B. Yard said:


> I'd guess at 0.005


that's what i'm thinking. at .004 a full read still compares to an old KU payout for books my size. 
anything less and i'm losing compared to an old KU payment.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Two of my four books have nearly identical word counts of about 82,000 words. Amazon says the book with 42 chapters equals 453 KENPC, while the book with 120 chapters equals 607 KENPC. I can't imagine they won't eventually adjust for this disparity.


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## DanaG (Feb 13, 2011)

I have 9,638 page reads. I'm going to move into a beautiful, magical fairyland where every page is a dollar.  I"M RICH I"M RICH I"M RICH!!!!!! 

Man, I wish I knew how much Amazon was paying per page. At least with borrows, I could guesstimate $1.30. be pleasantly surprised at $1.34, and have some vague idea of how much money I'd be making for the month. I am utterly clueless right now.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

DanaG said:


> I have 9,638 page reads. I'm going to move into a beautiful, magical fairyland where every page is a dollar. I"M RICH I"M RICH I"M RICH!!!!!!
> 
> Man, I wish I knew how much Amazon was paying per page. At least with borrows, I could guesstimate $1.30. be pleasantly surprised at $1.34, and have some vague idea of how much money I'd be making for the month. I am utterly clueless right now.


See a few posts up. Looks like 0.005 might be possible.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

My two 100K word action thrillers are 697 and 686 KENPC pages. Product page lists them at 318 and 306 pages. They each have I think between 40 and 50 chapters which should be the only page breaks aside from 3 in the back matter. There is definitely some dialogue, and my paragraphs are mostly on the shorter side rather than longer, but not significantly so. One thing I do in all my books which might be impacting it is I put an image at the beginning of each chapter (the same image each chapter), plus a tiny section divider image between each section within a chapter - figure 60-80 section dividers in the whole book. It would not surprise me if images are getting extra weight as far as page count goes.

Obviously I did not style my books this way several years ago to take advantage of this    I did it because I think it looks better. But I would not be surprised if this is something authors start doing.


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## DanaG (Feb 13, 2011)

D-to-the-C said:


> See a few posts up. Looks like 0.005 might be possible.


Thank you. So...$48 bucks so far today. But it's not even noon yet for me. Also, I only have one book in Select. Honestly, 9000-plus pages sounds like a LOT of reads. The book is like 45,000 words.


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## danielsolomonkaplan (Aug 8, 2014)

At .005 with the KENP adjusted page count both of my books are over $2 for a full read. I'm ok with that.

Now if we could just get the numbers on how many people are opening the book so I can see how many read through, that would be nice. Obviously I can divide against my page count but that only tells me how many theoretical people could have read through the book, not how many stopped in the middle. At least it's a series so I can see if pages get read for the sequel.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

0
x whatever
------------
0


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

It's way too early to tell, but I'm thinking this might not be the death of shorts so many were predicting. I'm getting page reads. If someone puts out three shorts a week and gets a lot of borrows then page reads are page reads, My back catalog is moving today and people are reading so far. It might not turn out to be so bad. I try to be an optimists.


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## danielsolomonkaplan (Aug 8, 2014)

Really hope the .058 number holds. If it does, the amount for my books for a KU full read will be more than the royalties on a sale since I've priced them at $2.99.


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## lamaha (Nov 12, 2011)

Maximillion said:


> You may be right. Even my shorts (8500~ words) are averaging 45 pages. I'd earn $0.45 instead of $0.35. But maybe it could be a penny. If there are tons of BS ebooks/pamphets that money shifts. Also, I'm making almost a dollar less if the short is read all the way. And then we have to consider the read through. With those three things maybe a penny a page makes sense.


Where does it tell you your page count? I haven't had any pages read yet (typical is only nine borrow a month) -- is that the reason I don't see page count?

Edited to add: OK, I found the letter kdp sent me and it has instructions.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

noob said:


> is my math wrong?
> 
> i have a 67k novel. that's 388 zonpages according to their new system
> 
> ...


"zonpages" huh? That could catch on.

I was expecting my zonpage count to be less than the page count on the product page due to the amount of white space and images in my books, but like most here, the zonpage count has turned out to be MUCH higher.

The 5 books I have in KU have 32%, 33%, 36%, 39% and 41% more zonpages than pages on the product pages.

Philip


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2015)

I've decided to set mine to an 'optimistic' 0.0058 cents per page.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Rubens4tune said:


> I've decided to set mine to an 'optimistic' 0.0058 cents per page.


With the way these Zonpages are being calculated I think this may be right on the mark. The math seems to be working out okay, rewarding longer works, but the inconsistency between two books of similar word count is disconcerting. Essentially, Amazon has told us to write longer stories with shorter paragraphs and shorter chapters. Does anyone think this was intended or an accident the Amazon tech guys and gals made when making KENPC?


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

The KENPC will change rapidly as they get feedback. That's why it's given a 1.0 version number.


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## MySky (Sep 8, 2014)

Maybe I'm just dense, or math challenged, but I still don't understand where you are getting your new page counts (yes, I've read all the e-mails). My book is listed at 250 pages. Next book will be about the same. But that's on my listing page. Where do I find the new page count for select? 

The e-mail this morning said it is on the publish page and I do see a number there, but it is the same number as is showing on my blue graph and the number is 568 (and it shows under June 30). I had many borrows yesterday. That can't be the number assigned to me for the number of pages in my book. I'm so confused.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Maximillion said:


> With the way these Zonpages are being calculated I think this may be right on the mark. The math seems to be working out okay, rewarding longer works, but the inconsistency between two books of similar word count is disconcerting. Essentially, Amazon has told us to write longer stories with shorter paragraphs and shorter chapters. Does anyone think this was intended or an accident the Amazon tech guys and gals made when making KENPC?


Surely I have to assume they knew this after just a little testing. I doubt it was/is an explicit intention. But I suspect they have decided that the pros and cons of other options fall on the side of doing it this way. I could see them changing their mind after trying it out.


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## CaraS. (Jul 18, 2014)

edwardgtalbot said:


> My two 100K word action thrillers are 697 and 686 KENPC pages. Product page lists them at 318 and 306 pages. They each have I think between 40 and 50 chapters which should be the only page breaks aside from 3 in the back matter. There is definitely some dialogue, and my paragraphs are mostly on the shorter side rather than longer, but not significantly so. One thing I do in all my books which might be impacting it is I put an image at the beginning of each chapter (the same image each chapter), plus a tiny section divider image between each section within a chapter - figure 60-80 section dividers in the whole book. It would not surprise me if images are getting extra weight as far as page count goes. Obviously I did not style my books this way several years ago to take advantage of this  I did it because I think it looks better. But I would not be surprised if this is something authors start doing.


I'm noticing the same thing in two of my novels. One has image/separate bar for chapters, and is coming out much longer than the one without that. Mine have been in Select for a few years, so obviously didn't know about this. Interesting though, regarding images.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

MySky said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, or math challenged, but I still don't understand where you are getting your new page counts (yes, I've read all the e-mails). My book is listed at 250 pages. Next book will be about the same. But that's on my listing page. Where do I find the new page count for select?
> 
> The e-mail this morning said it is on the publish page and I do see a number there, but it is the same number as is showing on my blue graph and the number is 568 (and it shows under June 30). I had many borrows yesterday. That can't be the number assigned to me for the number of pages in my book. I'm so confused.


Click on one of your books in KU. Then click on KDP Select Benefits. Scroll down a little and you will see your KENPC page count for the book you clicked in the third box. It's at the bottom.


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## MySky (Sep 8, 2014)

Thank you so much~I found it and it was the number I had seen before. Just surprised it's so high - more than twice my page count.


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## Ainsley (Dec 26, 2013)

The KENPC page count is likely accurate. If they adjust down then the payout will be VERY low and pointless. Basically according to their previous page count the payout is actually closer to the .01 that most people assumed. 

I still think the poll threads were basically telling Amazon pretty much how low they could do - you got what you asked for!


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## Ainsley (Dec 26, 2013)

Maximillion said:


> With the way these Zonpages are being calculated I think this may be right on the mark. The math seems to be working out okay, rewarding longer works, but the inconsistency between two books of similar word count is disconcerting. Essentially, Amazon has told us to write longer stories with shorter paragraphs and shorter chapters. Does anyone think this was intended or an accident the Amazon tech guys and gals made when making KENPC?


This would make sense in that it is more visually appealing on a kindle/e-reader/phone.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Ainsley said:


> The KENPC page count is likely accurate.


It's not accurate at all. Of the 3 I have in Select (one leaves today) the counts are:

Details page 7pp KENPC 7pp
Details page 6pp KENPC 8pp
Details page 122pp KENPC 122pp

Note that the last one is poetry, so short lines and short chapters contrary to other posts do not always bump up the page count.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

CaraS. said:


> I'm noticing the same thing in two of my novels. One has image/separate bar for chapters, and is coming out much longer than the one without that. Mine have been in Select for a few years, so obviously didn't know about this. Interesting though, regarding images.


Okay, we have two data points about images! And I've seen others post about having a lot of chapters make the difference.

Even though I personally write fairly short paragraphs with a fair amount of dialogue, a lot of chapters, and images, it seems clear that rewarding this style is not ideal. I don't think Amazon really wants to be controlling things that much because they know that ultimately it's reader behavior that should decide. But this may be the best of the options they could come up with to achieve their goal. And I would guess that their numbers show them that more money is made on books written in short paragraphs and short chapters with a lot of dialogue. Not because those books are better but because they read faster and therefore can trigger more sales/borrows.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

I'm not seeing borrows anywhere, just page counts. I downloaded the excel spreadsheet, and it did not have any borrows on it, though by my page counts on the reports page, I've sold at least ten books.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

edwardgtalbot said:


> Okay, we have two data points about images! And I've seen others post about having a lot of chapters make the difference.
> 
> Even though I personally write fairly short paragraphs with a fair amount of dialogue, a lot of chapters, and images, it seems clear that rewarding this style is not ideal. I don't think Amazon really wants to be controlling things that much because they know that ultimately it's reader behavior that should decide. But this may be the best of the options they could come up with to achieve their goal. And I would guess that their numbers show them that more money is made on books written in short paragraphs and short chapters with a lot of dialogue. Not because those books are better but because they read faster and therefore can trigger more sales/borrows.


I will throw it off. I would say I have medium chapter counts and no images and my page counts took me by surprise. My 60,000-word books are all coming in at 350-400 pages.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Short lines and short chapters are not the panacea you think. My 122 page poetry collection is 122 pages in KENPC.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

edwardgtalbot said:


> My two 100K word action thrillers are 697 and 686 KENPC pages. Product page lists them at 318 and 306 pages. They each have I think between 40 and 50 chapters which should be the only page breaks aside from 3 in the back matter. There is definitely some dialogue, and my paragraphs are mostly on the shorter side rather than longer, but not significantly so. One thing I do in all my books which might be impacting it is I put an image at the beginning of each chapter (the same image each chapter), plus a tiny section divider image between each section within a chapter - figure 60-80 section dividers in the whole book. It would not surprise me if images are getting extra weight as far as page count goes.
> 
> Obviously I did not style my books this way several years ago to take advantage of this  I did it because I think it looks better. But I would not be surprised if this is something authors start doing.


I've been thinking of doing that at the chapter headings for a year now, but was just too lazy to do it. So instead I just bought a custom font and use that for chapter headings.
I shoulda' went with da' images!!!


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I will throw it off. I would say I have medium chapter counts and no images and my page counts took me by surprise. My 60,000-word books are all coming in at 350-400 pages.


Okay, shot down again! So by medium chapter counts, you mean something like 15-20 chapters in that 60K book? I average between 2000 and 2500 words per chapter, which I consider median range for an action thriller but short for all fiction taken as a whole. Also do you have a lot of dialogue?


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

katrina46 said:


> It's way too early to tell, but I'm thinking this might not be the death of shorts so many were predicting. I'm getting page reads. If someone puts out three shorts a week and gets a lot of borrows then page reads are page reads, My back catalog is moving today and people are reading so far. It might not turn out to be so bad. I try to be an optimists.


Not sure how this works.

The three translated short stories of mine that were downloaded today in Brazil as borrows have had 507 pages reads. The three of them total 374 pages for all three put together as per the KNEP page count, so I'm at over 100% of the pages read.. There could be a reason for that and I think it could be because I market them as teaching aids for understanding languages in that I include both the English and the translated version, so of course they are going to read them over and over again.

I didn't plan this. The stories have been published some time, so maybe it's given them new legs. There again, we don't know if pages read includes books previously downloaded and the reader is just getting around to reading them Somehow I doubt that, as they will have already been calculated for payout in previous months. Strange....

Edited: Stop press. Sorry I'm wrong. The 507 pages is for Missing: The Body of Evidence, a full length work that was downloaded as a borrow last week. Looks like they haven't read the shorts yet. At least I know they read it in full.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Decon said:


> The three translated short stories of mine that were downloaded today in Brazil as borrows have had 507 pages reads. The three of them total 374 pages for all three put together as per the KNEP page count, so I'm at over 100% of the pages read.. There could be a reason for that and I think it could be because I market them as teaching aids for understanding languages in that I include both the English and the translated version, so of course they are going to read them over and over again.
> 
> I didn't plan this. The stories have been published some time, so maybe it's given them new legs. There again, we don't know if pages read includes books previously downloaded and the reader is just getting around to reading them Somehow I doubt that, as they will have already been calculated for payout in previous months.


Yes, it does include books previously downloaded but not books previously read to 10%. One of the emails floating around when this was first announced confirmed that. What it said was that if someone had already read 10% in a previous month then you would not get paid by the page for additional reading on 7/1 and later.

Like before, you have no way of knowing what was downloaded today versus other days other than by a jump in rankings, which is guesswork at best.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

I just checked on a few of my books, word count is all over the place.
On my 4 books in the 65K size region, I get 190 words per kindle page on the first one, and 180 on the next three.
On my 178K book however I'm getting 267 word per page word count!
Think I'm going to ask Amazon to fix that one, it should be a 990 page count, if the 180 approximation is correct.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

vanstry said:


> I just checked on a few of my books, word count is all over the place.
> On my 4 books in the 65K size region, I get 190 words per kindle page on the first one, and 180 on the next three.
> On my 178K book however I'm getting 267 word per page word count!
> Think I'm going to ask Amazon to fix that one, it should be a 990 page count, if the 180 approximation is correct.


The 180 approximation is NOT correct. They're basing this on way more than just word counts. You could email them with your opinion, but I would be very surprised if they change it.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

edwardgtalbot said:


> Okay, shot down again! So by medium chapter counts, you mean something like 15-20 chapters in that 60K book? I average between 2000 and 2500 words per chapter, which I consider median range for an action thriller but short for all fiction taken as a whole. Also do you have a lot of dialogue?


I do have a lot of dialogue and they're mostly 25 chapters (which I consider fairly normal for the romantic suspense genre). Now, depending on the book, my main name stuff is running longer. That is mostly (there are some exceptions) 70,000-80,000 words and 425-450 pages roughly.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

Has anyone seen a page count higher than 666?


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

edwardgtalbot said:


> The 180 approximation is NOT correct. They're basing this on way more than just word counts. You could email them with your opinion, but I would be very surprised if they change it.


So what are they basing it on? Number of chapters? I thought they'd go with word count, because that's how every other publisher in the world does it today.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

edwardgtalbot said:


> Yes, it does include books previously downloaded but not books previously read to 10%. One of the emails floating around when this was first announced confirmed that. What it said was that if someone had already read 10% in a previous month then you would not get paid by the page for additional reading on 7/1 and later.
> 
> Like before, you have no way of knowing what was downloaded today versus other days other than by a jump in rankings, which is guesswork at best.


Thanks. I've just edited my post before you replied....

Edited: Stop press. Sorry I'm wrong. The 507 pages is for Missing: The Body of Evidence, a full length work that was downloaded as a borrow last week. Looks like they haven't read the shorts yet. At least I know they read it in full.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I do have a lot of dialogue and they're mostly 25 chapters (which I consider fairly normal for the romantic suspense genre). Now, depending on the book, my main name stuff is running longer. That is mostly (there are some exceptions) 70,000-80,000 words and 425-450 pages roughly.


Thanks for the additional detail. I guess over the coming days, people will figure this out more. On the one hand, it seems like we could be paying more attention to this than it's worth - just write the books readers want to read and we'll be fine. On the other hand, if a couple of formatting choices could increase borrow revenue 10% then we'd be fools not to consider it.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

edwardgtalbot said:


> Thanks for the additional detail. I guess over the coming days, people will figure this out more. On the one hand, it seems like we could be paying more attention to this than it's worth - just write the books readers want to read and we'll be fine. On the other hand, if a couple of formatting choices could increase borrow revenue 10% then we'd be fools not to consider it.


That's what I'm going to do. I'm starting a new one today.


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

edwardgtalbot said:


> Thanks for the additional detail. I guess over the coming days, people will figure this out more. On the one hand, it seems like we could be paying more attention to this than it's worth - just write the books readers want to read and we'll be fine. On the other hand, if a couple of formatting choices could increase borrow revenue 10% then we'd be fools not to consider it.


This is what I'm thinking. Sure, I will write my story as it should be but when it's done and comes in at 50K words I'd like to have an idea how many KENPC pages it would be. 150 and 250 is a huge different. I'm seeing drastic differences between my novels that are only 1,000 apart in word count. At the very least, they should make it to where a person knows the KENPC for a book not yet in KU.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Maximillion said:


> This is what I'm thinking. Sure, I will write my story as it should be but when it's done and comes in at 50K words I'd like to have an idea how many KENPC pages it would be. 150 and 250 is a huge different. I'm seeing drastic differences between my novels that are only 1,000 apart in word count. At the very least, they should make it to where a person knows the KENPC for a book not yet in KU.


Agreed


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## David Penny (Jun 8, 2014)

Apologies if someone's already covered this, but... Looking at my sales dashboard (don't snigger) I see I have 2 sales today, but 94 pages read. Looking at this it appears that the pages read is being updated even if I made a sale, and not a KU borrow. Is this how it's meant to work? If so, how do I calculate what is going on when my sale returns a fixed amount (70%) but the KU download is measured in pages read. I don't want to know how many pages all my sales have read, only my KU downloads.


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## danielsolomonkaplan (Aug 8, 2014)

Borrows don't register anymore. You will get a report on pages read through the KU program.

So at this point 94 pages have been read through KU. It could represent one person reading 94 pages, or 94 people reading 1 page. We don't have access to that information.

We won't know the amount each page is worth until the end of the month, but it appears based on last month it will be around $.0058 a page. So your 94 pages are around $.54


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

lilywhite said:


> It's gonna be a rough six weeks. I can handle ANYTHING except uncertainty.


Yup!! Same here.


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## MatthewBallard (May 21, 2013)

vanstry said:


> Has anyone seen a page count higher than 666?


All three of mine. 668, 772, and 909


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

vanstry said:


> Has anyone seen a page count higher than 666?


Yep. All of mine. The longest is 1217 (what can I say, I write epic fantasy).  It's 560 pages in paperback, 220K words, longish chapters, no images for the data collectors.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

How often are your pages read figures updating? Minute by minute? Hourly? Some other time frame?


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Mike McIntyre said:


> How often are your pages read figures updating? Minute by minute? Hourly? Some other time frame?


Mine was going up every few minutes. Has been frozen for about an hour. Maybe no one is reading right now... I need a drink, lol


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Mike McIntyre said:


> How often are your pages read figures updating? Minute by minute? Hourly? Some other time frame?


It's like every half hour or so.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

Looks like one person borrowed Dragons and Dreams, and according to thee KENPC page count, read it all the way through (92 pages).  So I just made $0.46.  I'm going to stick witth KU2.0 through July, I guess - I used to make over half my money on borrows, but now that's not going tohappen, particularly since we only get paid for the first read-through, and beedtime storiees are often read over and ovre again.  Now if KU only allowed you to borrow a book once, and only read it once while you had it, that would be a better deal for me, because I hopee it would inspire actual purchases.

I don't want to go wide - it's just been so conveenieent to have all my data in one place. And I hear Apple peenalizes you if you go through a distributor like D2D. So that means 3 places to seet up specials and deals... Lordy, but I hate bookkeeping, and if I go widee, that will mean 3x the time I'm not writing.

Well, I'll wait and see, but for this children's author, it does look like a disaster.


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## MajesticMonkey (Sep 3, 2013)

I suppose I should have made screenshots from the sales dashboard if I wanted to keep my KU borrow data?


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

beccaprice said:


> I don't want to go wide - it's just been so conveenieent to have all my data in one place. And I hear Apple peenalizes you if you go through a distributor like D2D.


I have not heard this? Is it true?


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

lilywhite said:


> I don't understand how you know how many people borrowed?


Yes, we do NOT know how many people borrowed nor when they borrows. It's not an unreasonable assumption when the number of pages that appears on your report matches exactly the number of pages in your book that it represents a single person reading all the way through. But you still don't know when they borrowed it, just when they read it.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I have an idea.  
I am going to use Decon's Hide and seek.
Kindles have several font settings.  I will do number of clicks on each one.
Smallest print: 27 pages
Next up: 30 pages
3rd one: 37
4th one: 54
5th one:84 
Those are just the actual story pages.  Do any of them sound close?


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> I have an idea.
> I am going to use Decon's Hide and seek.
> Kindles have several font settings. I will do number of clicks on each one.
> Smallest print: 27 pages
> ...


"Hide and Seek (Short story)"
Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v1.0: *37 pages* Page count on sales page, uploaded as Times new Roman 12 point. *24 pages*. Just counted the number of pages in the English version in the translated version paper book (English/Portuguese). The page count is 27, so that's spot on with your smallest size.

It's looking as though the 3rd one is spot on for working out the KNEPC page count.

I doubt if the font size set would effect the payout or pages read report? Still you never know.


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## noob (Dec 11, 2014)

things are weird


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Decon said:


> "Hide and Seek (Short story)"
> Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v1.0: *37 pages* Page count on sales page, uploaded as Times new Roman 12 point. *24 pages*. Just counted the number of pages in the English version in the translated version paper book (English/Portuguese). The page count is 27, so that's spot on with your smallest size.
> 
> It's looking as though the 3rd one is spot on for working out the KNEPC page count.
> ...


Third one is about the standard size font for a paperback. 
If anyone else would like me to check and you have done free days, let me know. I probably have your book.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

noob said:


> things are weird


I really think I could use this response in all sorts of kboards threads and fit right in


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

My question is this:

What happened to the borrows from last week or two weeks ago, do I still get "paid" under the old system


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## Ainsley (Dec 26, 2013)

Seems to be a consensus building around character count/1000 in another thread as the page count algorithm...


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## SJ Kelley (Feb 13, 2015)

I've read through about half of this thread, so forgive me if this was mentioned already, but I have a theory for why they increased the KENPC so that all the books have higher page counts. When KU 2.0 was first announced people guessed that  Amazon would give the price of a typical borrow in KU 1.0 to the length of book they wanted to see more of in their store (for the sake of argument, say 250 pages would get $1.35), but this assumed a full read through. My theory is that they do have a book length they have in mind to increase in their offerings, but they took that page count number and combined it with their statistics on the average read through percentage in a typical book, and then increased the page count so that if a book of the length they desire gets read to the average percentage Amazon readers tend to read, that would be worth a full borrow. If the book is great and they read through the end, bonus; however I think they took into account the realities of the average reader. At least, that's what struck me when people started saying their page counts in KU 1.0 were ~65% of those in KU 2.0.

Of course, this is all speculation and I'm not even a prawn, so ignore if you wish  I just enjoy trying to piece it apart.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

Tried to post this meaningless data a while back, not sure what happened . . .

Anyway, one of my books was previously print published as a regular paperback and it had 380 pages, that excludes sales bumphy stuff the publisher put in. This same book shows 420 pages through KENPC. So whatever the tally algo AMZ is using it seems fine--for this book at least. (Original Word file was 90,000 words)


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

geronl said:


> What happened to the borrows from last week or two weeks ago, do I still get "paid" under the old system


If you go to the bottom of the KDP report page and click on Generate Report then you will get a spreadsheet with a main tab of Royalties for sales and to find out your June borrows you need to click on the Orders tab.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Ainsley said:


> Seems to be a consensus building around character count/1000 in another thread as the page count algorithm...


Not to be contrary, but from what I could see, that isn't any more accurate that finding a target number to divide word count by. Using that formula, my 100K novel should be 450 amazon pages and instead it's 697.

What needs to happen is over time, folks will identify what the different variables are and it is sure that there are more variables than just word count. strong suggestive evidence that number of chapters is a factor, and images likely are as well.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I have checked 2 books on my kindle  keyboard.    Both matched perfectly.  (Clicks to page count. )


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## Ian Jaymes (Jan 22, 2015)

Sorry if this was said before, but it seems like it would be a useful piece of data for authors if Zon kept on displaying borrows the old way (well, not exactly like that- we had the whole ghost borrow thingy, but maybe a little blue dot each time you get borrowed) along with the new KENP, so we could estimate our average read for each book.  Not that it's Amazon's job to do that for us, but it sure would be a useful metric on how well you resonate with readers.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

So I have two short stories in KU still that have had NO pages read (which makes sense since I have had few sales or borrows this month) and I have two books that were once in KU in February, but both have 500 pages read... Someone must have borrowed and are only now reading? The reads still count I guess, even after your book is taken out of KU.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Well, this will take some getting use to.

My husband called me on the phone this afternoon. "Did you have some BIG ad running? It says you sold 900+ books today." ... "That's pages read, honey. New system." .... "Oh."


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

beccaprice said:


> Looks like one person borrowed Dragons and Dreams, and according to thee KENPC page count, read it all the way through (92 pages). So I just made $0.46. I'm going to stick witth KU2.0 through July, I guess - I used to make over half my money on borrows, but now that's not going tohappen, particularly since we only get paid for the first read-through, and beedtime storiees are often read over and ovre again. Now if KU only allowed you to borrow a book once, and only read it once while you had it, that would be a better deal for me, because I hopee it would inspire actual purchases.
> 
> I don't want to go wide - it's just been so conveenieent to have all my data in one place. And I hear Apple peenalizes you if you go through a distributor like D2D. So that means 3 places to seet up specials and deals... Lordy, but I hate bookkeeping, and if I go widee, that will mean 3x the time I'm not writing.
> 
> Well, I'll wait and see, but for this children's author, it does look like a disaster.


How do you know you made .46 cents? Nobody knows yet how much is going to be paid out but I hope it's more than that. .46 in English money is nothing.


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## BelleB (Oct 21, 2014)

Is it an app?


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

BelleB said:


> Is it an app?


Her's the link with more info - created by a kboards author (I believe): https://www.getbookreport.com/


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## BelleB (Oct 21, 2014)

Thanks for that.  I tried searching it and couldn't find it.


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