# Apple seeking to patent spyware to monitor users & their devices...



## originalgrissel (Mar 5, 2010)

Spotted this article on the Electronics Frontier Foundations site the other day & thought apple owners on the forum should hear about it!

From the article:

" _Here's a sample of the kinds of information Apple plans to collect:

The system can take a picture of the user's face, "without a flash, any noise, or any indication that a picture is being taken to prevent the current user from knowing he is being photographed"; 
The system can record the user's voice, whether or not a phone call is even being made; 
The system can determine the user's unique individual heartbeat "signature"; 
To determine if the device has been hacked, the device can watch for "a sudden increase in memory usage of the electronic device"; 
The user's "Internet activity can be monitored or any communication packets that are served to the electronic device can be recorded"; and 
The device can take a photograph of the surrounding location to determine where it is being used._"

It's just unbelievably creepy and very 1984. You can read the entire article (with links to the patent information) at the URL below.
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/08/steve-jobs-watching-you-apple-seeking-patent-0


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Well, we have no evidence that Apple "plans" to collect such information. Companies routinely apply for blue-sky patents that they have no intention of using, just so other companies can’t patent it, or just because it might be near something they intend to do.

If you look at some of the other patents have been granted, there are equally scary things out there, IIRC.

Mike


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## originalgrissel (Mar 5, 2010)

jmiked said:


> Well, we have no evidence that Apple "plans" to collect such information. Companies routinely apply for blue-sky patents that they have no intention of using, just so other companies can't patent it, or just because it might be near something they intend to do.


You make a good point. We have no way of knowing if the company actually intends to put the patent into "practice" on it's devices in the future, but just the fact that someone can apply for a patent for software that would do something which anyone else would need a warrant for astounds me. The industrial espionage alone that could be perpetrated with software like this boggles the mind, but the fact that it, if used, would be a direct violations of people's right to privacy and the users would have no idea where that information is being stored, who would have access to it and no control over it's use is disturbing. The fact that any company would want to patent this kind of technology (for whatever reason) I find worrisome.


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## Eeyore (Jul 16, 2009)

originalgrissel said:


> The industrial espionage alone that could be perpetrated with software like this boggles the mind, but the fact that it, if used, would be a direct violations of people's right to privacy and the users would have no idea where that information is being stored, who would have access to it and no control over it's use is disturbing.


Unfortunately, this already exists under the Windows operating system world. I have to constantly run 3 different types of "cleaners" several times each day to rid my computer of various spyware, cookies, malware, and what-have-you. (And yes, I also have 2 different firewalls to control what comes in and goes out under Windows. I value my privacy.) Visit any shopping site, and cookies are added to "help" you shop, remember what you have looked at, and report to either the originator or other like sites what you have looked at, what you are interested in, and what you have just bought. Visiting CNN or Reuters? Cookies have just been added. The problem already exists, Apple is just applying and patenting it to the Mac environment.

/rant on--- "would be a direct violations of people's right to privacy..." My take is that as soon as you access or type in www. , you have by consent given up this right. ---/rant-off

Best Wishes!


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Eeyore said:


> Unfortunately, this already exists under the Windows operating system world. I have to constantly run 3 different types of "cleaners" several times each day to rid my computer of various spyware, cookies, malware, and what-have-you. (And yes, I also have 2 different firewalls to control what comes in and goes out under Windows. I value my privacy.) Visit any shopping site, and cookies are added to "help" you shop, remember what you have looked at, and report to either the originator or other like sites what you have looked at, what you are interested in, and what you have just bought. Visiting CNN or Reuters? Cookies have just been added. The problem already exists, Apple is just applying and patenting it to the Mac environment.
> 
> /rant on--- "would be a direct violations of people's right to privacy..." My take is that as soon as you access or type in www. , you have by consent given up this right. ---/rant-off
> 
> Best Wishes!


You're right that using the internet automatically means giving up some of your privacy, but there's a HUGE difference between sites gathering info on what brand of cereal I had delivered with my shopping and a device taking a photograph of me, my family and my surroundings and recording what we're saying, all without our knowledge and consent.


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## originalgrissel (Mar 5, 2010)

Eeyore said:


> Unfortunately, this already exists under the Windows operating system world. I have to constantly run 3 different types of "cleaners" several times each day to rid my computer of various spyware, cookies, malware, and what-have-you. (And yes, I also have 2 different firewalls to control what comes in and goes out under Windows. I value my privacy.) Visit any shopping site, and cookies are added to "help" you shop, remember what you have looked at, and report to either the originator or other like sites what you have looked at, what you are interested in, and what you have just bought. Visiting CNN or Reuters? Cookies have just been added. The problem already exists, Apple is just applying and patenting it to the Mac environment.
> 
> /rant on--- "would be a direct violations of people's right to privacy..." My take is that as soon as you access or type in www. , you have by consent given up this right. ---/rant-off
> 
> Best Wishes!


Except that cookies can't record my conversations (even if I'm not surfing the web) without my knowledge. I'm fully aware that cookies are being placed on my computer & take action to remove them. If I do that, my computer doesn't shut itself down or cut me off from the internet. This patent would give Apple the ability to actually turn off your device if you took actions they didn't approve of with it, say like attemtpting to disable any of their spyware, jailbreaking your phone (which you have a legal right to do). My computer also can't tell other people where I am at any given time of the day, like these products would be able to if this spyware were to actually be installed on them. And my computer generally doesn't gather biological information on me and store it or give it to anyone else, which is what could happen with this spyware. So, really, your analogy doesn't really apply.


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## Eeyore (Jul 16, 2009)

I personally don't agree with what Apple is doing. I am a novice to the Apple system and just acquired my first Apple product when the iPad came out. So I don't know what the corporate mind-set is, though from what I have read they do take their security and corporate rights to the n'th degree compared to most Windows based producers. However, what most of us don't realize is the software running your phone, computer, iPad or whatever is NOT owned by you. You have purchased a license to use that software, and any violation of their "terms of use" can terminate your rights. If Apple has written within their "terms of use" something that you don't agree with, then don't use their software. A jail broken iphone has bypassed 'some' of the code that makes your iphone work, but the main part of the Apple software code is still working.



originalgrissel said:


> My computer also can't tell other people where I am at any given time of the day, like these products would be able to if this spyware were to actually be installed on them.


Unfortunately, this technology already exists. http://www.accutracking.com/ would be available for download using the correct hacking program. Imbeded in an innocuous "you have mail of the latest picture of Wolverine (Hugh Jackman)", sent from your personal friend that the same hack program read off your address book in your phone. Of course, I am talking about cell phones and ipads, since most desk top computers don't have a built-in GPS.

Each year there are various competitions in the United States, such as the Black Hat Technical Conference, that allow some of the top hackers to show off their skill in breaking into so-called "unbreakable or secured" desk-top and phone based operating systems. The prize is recognition and the right to keep the new phone or computer that was broken into. In exchange, the company that owns the broken into operating system gets the new code that was used so they can update their operating system against such type of hack attacks.

And while cookies can't shut your computer down, malware and some viruses can take you off-line (basically turn your computer off). I know that for a fact because I had to spend $75 to have my hard disk completely erased [1-0, then 0-1, then 1-0 type] and then have all the programs reloaded. All because of a malware program that got through before an update was available. My iPad has a function that, when enabled, will completely wipe all of the data off it. Just enter the passcode wrong ten times and it is wiped clean. True, I have to enable it, but the function is still there that can be triggered. (I do not know if it can be remotely enabled using MobileMe, since I don't have that program.)

I don't even want to talk about programs recording conversations without you knowing about it. I am sure the spooks at NSA already have several programs available for download. And if they developed it, hackers aren't too far behind.

EDIT: Sorry for the rambling. What I am trying to say is I think Apple seems to want to keep a closed system for their products for security reasons. That is why they are so controlling. Anything that compromises that closed system (jail breaking, hacks, unapproved apps.) can lead to attacks of their operating system such as the type that occurs on an almost daily basis with Windows based products. That is why we don't have Flash, and why certain Windows programs have major problems running their code on an Apple based product.

Hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable Labor Day!

Best Wishes!


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