# Kindle and Library Lending -- COMBINED thread



## sleepy6553 (Nov 21, 2010)

Here's the link. It just showed up on my Facebook page:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1552678&highlight=


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## Sporadic (May 1, 2009)

Awesome news



> (NASDAQ: AMZN)-- Amazon today announced Kindle Library Lending, a new feature launching later this year that will allow Kindle customers to borrow Kindle books from over 11,000 libraries in the United States. Kindle Library Lending will be available for all generations of Kindle devices and free Kindle reading apps.
> 
> "We're excited that millions of Kindle customers will be able to borrow Kindle books from their local libraries," said Jay Marine, Director, Amazon Kindle. "Customers tell us they love Kindle for its Pearl e-ink display that is easy to read even in bright sunlight, up to a month of battery life, and Whispersync technology that synchronizes notes, highlights and last page read between their Kindle and free Kindle apps."
> 
> ...


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## me3boyz (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm really hoping it's all Kindles and not just the K3.


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## tlrowley (Oct 29, 2008)

The press release says "all generations"


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## sleepy6553 (Nov 21, 2010)

me3boyz said:


> I'm really hoping it's all Kindles and not just the K3.


Yes it will be for all generations:

Amazon today announced Kindle Library Lending, a new feature launching later this year that will allow Kindle customers to borrow Kindle books from over 11,000 libraries in the United States. *Kindle Library Lending will be available for all generations of Kindle devices and free Kindle reading apps.*


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

Great news. I wonder whether Amazon will allow the kindle to read ePub versions of library books, or whether Overdrive will provide mobi versions to the libraries. Then there's the question of how they're doing the DRM, etc. Very interesting (and good) news, and I'm curious to see how they implement it. I've been please with how Amazon has implemented other things (such as page numbers) and look forward to seeing how they do this.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Very interesting.  

The announcements describe the books as "Kindle books," not epub. Thus Amazon is not adding new format functionality.  

Amazon is working with OverDrive which provides DRM services for epub but also offers mobi.

Apparently libraries will offer both epub and mobi ebooks.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Sounds as though the library is now going to have to purchase ebooks in two formats instead of one. And considering the publishers seem to be going in the direction of limiting loan-outs of ebooks at libraries (to what was it, 26 times?), it looks like the cost of having ebooks to loan just doubled (at least).

Mike


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

WOOHOO!!!!!!! Guess I will finally go renew my library card.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

This is great news!!!

I'm happy with my iPad solution, but for the kid getting a K this will rock! I see getting another one now (was thinking about a nook) for them to have in the "sharing pool".

And, they are doing a good thing making it for all versions of their app too.

However, i wonder if it is going to mean a new format for the books or if the ADE ones will work? That could really hinder the process if it adds another format to it. Right now there are PDf and epubs.....


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Elk said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> The announcements describe the books as "Kindle books," not epub. Thus Amazon is not adding new format functionality.
> 
> ...


This is my concern... and the next posts cost issues.

I already have some books that are only available in PDF form instead of epub, the overdrive app doesn't support that on the ipad so i use Bluefire. But a 3rd format sounds expensive for the libraries.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Wonder what they mean by, "... later this year ..."? Hopefully, not too much later this year.


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## Barren (Apr 20, 2011)

This is great and all... but when are they going to enhance the loaning of book features from the Amazon store?  Last I checked, you can still only loan a book one time ever and for 2 weeks.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's an instance where I'm happy to eat my words - I had my doubts that this would happen but I'm happy that it's coming.  Definitely not good news for the other readers - their one big advantage was library books.  

The publishers will have to be the ones to "enhance" the lending of books - they're the ones who put the one-time limit on loaning books.  At least that's the general assumption.  That's why it's the same policy for Kindle and Nook - and why some books aren't lendable at all.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

This is great for readers. With the new prices on the K3 and being able to get library books more book lovers will be joining the Kindle club.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

It will be interesting to see how this will be tracked/verified as library "traffic".....how will this affect funding 
I would think this will evolve quickly into a single e-library......


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

Barren said:


> This is great and all... but when are they going to enhance the loaning of book features from the Amazon store? Last I checked, you can still only loan a book one time ever and for 2 weeks.


That is a publisher restriction and the Nook has the exact same policy since the device launched.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Good news for folks who want to read library books on Kindle. . . . .if I had to guess, I'd say they'd aim for a late summer early fall release of the service so that school reading lists can be included. . . .

As far as expanding lending of purchased books, I'm pretty sure that's something they need to work out with publishers.

I find it interesting that they foresee a method whereby you can make notes in the library book, which will not be available to another borrower, but will be available to you if you borrow again _or if you purchase the book from Amazon_. That's just brilliant.


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## lori_piper (Oct 7, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I find it interesting that they foresee a method whereby you can make notes in the library book, which will not be available to another borrower, but will be available to you if you borrow again _or if you purchase the book from Amazon_. That's just brilliant.


It really is.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

+1 Very clever.

While I have difficulty even considering taking notes with a Kindle keyboard, it is a function important to many.

On a separate topic, I would enjoy knowing what this is going to cost libraries.  For example, if they have the epub version already will the mobi copy be less expensive?  It certainly will not be free.  Libraries will be on the front line of the format war.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I think it is possible that Amazon is going to be underwriting this for a while. Overdrive's Exec in the release mentions working with Amazon to make this happen.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

ProfCrash said:


> I think it is possible that Amazon is going to be underwriting this for a while. Overdrive's Exec in the release mentions working with Amazon to make this happen.


That would be a nice solution for the libraries right now.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Somehow having libraries buying copies in another format just doesn't make sense to me. We don't really know the details. My library pretty much only has epub at this point and they are very popular as almost all books have waiting time. 

I wonder if there will be some kind of implementing of conversion as the book is delivered to the Kindle. With DRM and expire intact. Amazon pays the license for that and Libraries can keep what they have without any bother to them.


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## arshield (Nov 17, 2008)

I have no idea the price for libraries to subscribe to Overdrive, but increased use of libraries without the additional facility costs would seem to be a benefit to libraries.  Infrastructure is very expensive.  I know in our fairly well off county, there was a proposal to close several libraries this year.  It was voted down, but it was being proposed.

Also the individual libraries are not purchasing and maintaining the ebooks and audiobooks on Overdrive (according to my understanding) but just subscribing to the system.  There would seem to be some real costs of scale if there are 11,000 subscribing libraries.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> I think it is possible that Amazon is going to be underwriting this for a while.


Perhaps.

Amazon does not want to assume the license cost of adding format functionality. It also wants proprietary control over its DRM-protected AZW format.

Amazon wants to shift this cost as possible to consumers and libraries, but may well be assisting currently to assure future market dominance.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm not so sure about this... I know everyone has been requesting this for so long, but the waiting lists for popular books is already so long for ePub books and the selection of mobipocket books isn't huge yet, I can't see how the libraries are going to manage buying more copies of all these books... 

Hopefully they're working out a great plan.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Here's another link to an article from Publishers Weekly.


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## bwbollom (Jul 30, 2010)

This is exciting! It takes away one of the key negatives about the Kindle and should snag new buyers. It also gives those of us who already have one a sweet new feature! I'm not sure about all of the rollout and implementation details...but I do know that this is a cool step and I'll be very interested in testing it out.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I would think libraries would not have to purchase two copies. They would just have two files, an epub version and a mobi version, and be able to loan it out X number of times between the two files. The number of times they can loan it out is what is important, not the number of files. One the total number of loans for the epub version and the mobi version equalled X, the library would have to get another license. I'd prefer that the Kindle just supported epub, but this is still good.


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## amyberta (Dec 14, 2009)

Would we have to download overdrive to our computer and ipad?


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## ReginaLovesHer Kindle (Nov 30, 2009)

I always thought that this was the way to go and the way it would happen first -- Amazon works with Overdrive to get the Amazon format available through overdrive.com v. ePub on the Kindle.  Amazon could give overdrive the tools to convert the ePub books to Mobi, but then they would need the agreement from Adobe and why would they give that?

I am guessing it is being done in a way that won't be cost prohibitive.  The reason I think that is it would backfire on Amazon.  Although I do wonder how quickly books will be available in Amazon's format.  For example, some books are available only in ePub, some in PDF, some in both -- and some are in Mobi format also (for the Mobi reader).  Will it just be newly acquired books or will the librarires work on their already acquired books?


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## Book_Worm (Feb 25, 2011)

This is great news, and is actually BETTER than the solution that other eReaders provide.  Basically, we get the best of both worlds.  We get to borrow library books AND we still get the whispersync features.  This was a turn off for me when looking at B&N.  Yes, they allow you to read library books, but it doesn't do the syncing between devices.  One thing I love about my Kindle, is all books available and in sync on all devices.  Often, I have a few spare minutes in a day, while waiting for something.  It's very nice to be able to just pick up my phone and read a few pages of the book I was reading on my Kindle last night.  Now, thanks to Amazon, I'll be able to do the same with library books soon.


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## pomtroll (Oct 5, 2010)

*I do hope it won't add too much to library expenses. And it will take awhile before many libraries offer this. As it is my local library is not set up for lending to e-readers ( I do know about other lending libraries). But I foresee Kindle getting the lion share of of business (in the USA) once it happens. I know more people with kindles than other readers. *


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

This is awesome news! Guess I will finally have to actually get a library card again.


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## me3boyz (Jan 10, 2010)

tlrowley said:


> The press release says "all generations"


Oops! I didn't fully read the article, just scanned it. Going to blame my cough medicine...yeah, that's it.  Off to look for my library card.


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## AnnetteL (Jul 14, 2010)

Woohoo! I'm thrilled. 

Many friends have asked about the Kindle, and the library issue has them rethinking it. My library has e-books, but of course I couldn't check them out. 

Great news! (Now I'll just sit around, impatient, waiting for it to happen . . .)


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

arshield said:


> I have no idea the price for libraries to subscribe to Overdrive, but increased use of libraries without the additional facility costs would seem to be a benefit to libraries. Infrastructure is very expensive. I know in our fairly well off county, there was a proposal to close several libraries this year. It was voted down, but it was being proposed.
> 
> Also the individual libraries are not purchasing and maintaining the ebooks and audiobooks on Overdrive (according to my understanding) but just subscribing to the system. There would seem to be some real costs of scale if there are 11,000 subscribing libraries.


They do subscribe to the system, but there is also a cost per book any library offers - that's why some libraries offer thousands of Overdrive books, others offer "only" hundreds. ("Hundreds" being more than my local library offers.) Libraries add from Overdrive's selections as their funds become available. One publisher has already proposed (if not already implemented) a limit on how many times a library can lend an Overdrive e-book - Harper Collins being the publisher, 26 times being the limit. If the library wants to continue to offer the book after 26 patrons have borrowed the book, the library has to purchase the rights again.


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## Tripp (May 28, 2009)

Here is another article. Similar content but a little different.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2011/04/amazon-to-launch-library-lending-for-kindle-books/1

Woo Hoo, I am loving this.


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## VujaDe (Oct 2, 2010)

The library doesnt actual purchase digital copies, they pay for Overdrive's service which is INSANELY expensive. There are different packages with different costs; the more you pay, the more titles and formats are available to your patrons. 
We had to join a consortium with other area libraries and systems in order to afford Overdrive.  
So libraries won't have to purchase two different copies but we will have more users waiting for the same number of books.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Elk said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> Amazon does not want to assume the license cost of adding format functionality. It also wants proprietary control over its DRM-protected AZW format.
> 
> Amazon wants to shift this cost as possible to consumers and libraries, but may well be assisting currently to assure future market dominance.


That is pretty much what I was thinking.

Add to it that Amazon ends up looking like a good guy if it does underwrite part of the cost. "We are activly supporting local libraries that are in desperate need of funding." Great PR.

Like I said, pure speculation but it sure strikes me as a genius move.


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## BookLady (Jan 7, 2011)

Great news!  That removes the one aspect of Kindle that some found to be a negative aspect.

Just be aware that ebooks from most libraries are still under the same checkout standards as books (two weeks checkout time (7 days for newer books), no renewals if there is awaiting list, etc).  None of which I have missed with my own Kindle library.     But, I will definitely be checking out this great new feature once it is available.  Still saves a trip to the library!


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

It's great to have more choices!  This is a very smart move on Amazon's part.  I think it's going to increase Kindle device sales tremendously!


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

Of course this happens a few months after I buy a nook to read library books! LOL No really it is great because now DH can use either the Kindle or nook to read library books. I am looking forward to seeing what Kindle books are available for checking out. I'm kind of glad that the ebook format will be separate for Kindle owners because the ones (mostly EPUB and PDF at my libraries) that are currently available for other ereaders are already in high demand.

I am a member of several public libraries including the Free Library of Philadelphia (which also has Freegal where you can download 3 free songs a week from the Sony Music Collection) which currently costs $35 a year for non-residents. (It is free for everyone over 65, even out-of-staters.) Most of my libraries have a 21 day to 28 day checkout period - every library is different. Some, like the Free Library, allow you to decide how long you are going to check out a book from 7 to 28 days.

I keep wishlists at each library of books I want to read and then I can scan through them quickly to find books that are available for checkout when I need more books. I also do holds for the more popular books and the longest I waited was 3 weeks for the newest Nora Roberts wedding books.

Everyone should check out the Ebook Lending Library Wiki to see if there are other libraries in your state or region that you can use for free. The Wiki states how many ebooks each library has and offers some other options for non-residents who want to pay to get library access.

http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> Add to it that Amazon ends up looking like a good guy if it does underwrite part of the cost. "We are activly supporting local libraries that are in desperate need of funding." Great PR.


You're good.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

VujaDe said:


> The library doesnt actual purchase digital copies, they pay for Overdrive's service which is INSANELY expensive.


Can you provide us with an idea of the cost and how this compares to buying physical copies?


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## Amethyst (Feb 28, 2009)

According to Library Journal (http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/890266-264/amazon_to_allow_library_lending.html.csp) library's won't need to purchase additional ebooks - ebooks they already own will be available for kindle download.

Quote:
The lending will be available for all generations of the Kindle as well as Kindle reading apps, and it will integrate with all the existing ebook catalogs in the United States powered by OverDrive. In other words, the libraries-including schools, colleges and public libraries-will not have to add a new format, and the ebooks now available on the OverDrive sites will be immediately integrated with the Kindle, Dan Stasiewski, a marketing associate with OverDrive, told LJ.

"There will be no additional cost to acquire new files to make them compatible," David Burleigh, OverDrive's director of marketing, told LJ.


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## arshield (Nov 17, 2008)

amyberta said:


> Would we have to download overdrive to our computer and ipad?


I doubt it. I would think they are going to make this ready directly on kindle. But no specifics yet. If you have an ipad, you can already download and check out audiobooks and ebooks using their ipad app. This would seem to be something else other than that.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Amethyst said:


> According to Library Journal . . .
> the libraries-including schools, colleges and public libraries-will not have to add a new format, and the ebooks now available on the OverDrive sites will be immediately integrated with the Kindle . . .


Thanks for posting this. Intriguing.

What exactly are they up to? Transcoding on site? Epub compatibility pushed out to Kindles (unlikely).


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## Tris (Oct 30, 2008)

What a great way to start of this morning!  Haven't heard any good news in a while, so this is awesome.  When I first heard it, I was concerned that this would only impact K3s as my local news only have a small paragraph blurb about it, and now I learn it's across the board...yea!  Out of curiosity I checked out my local library's webpage to see how long ebooks are allowed to be checked out, and it says 21 days, another great news as I feared it was only 2 weeks.  Now this will be one Kindle update that I will be eagerly awaiting!

Saves me gas and I don't have to make sure I make it to the library before closing time...let alone trying to see which library to go to (my local libraries are all remodeling and closing/opening here and there).

Off I go now to see some of the ebook titles my library has...

Tris


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

So the PDF and EPUB files at my library will soon be Kindle compatible? Or will there be separate files treated as separate ebooks? I'm confused.   

To borrow library ebooks with the nook I installed Adobe Digital Editions on my laptop. I checkout the book from the library online, download it to my laptop, then hook up the nook to the laptop to transfer it to the nook. When a library ebook expires I'm no longer able to open it on ADE or the nook. (I still have to delete the books manually even though they are expired.)


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Amethyst said:


> According to Library Journal (http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/890266-264/amazon_to_allow_library_lending.html.csp) library's won't need to purchase additional ebooks - ebooks they already own will be available for kindle download.
> 
> Quote:
> The lending will be available for all generations of the Kindle as well as Kindle reading apps, and it will integrate with all the existing ebook catalogs in the United States powered by OverDrive. In other words, the libraries-including schools, colleges and public libraries-will not have to add a new format, and the ebooks now available on the OverDrive sites will be immediately integrated with the Kindle, Dan Stasiewski, a marketing associate with OverDrive, told LJ.
> ...


Libraries will still need to buy more copies, or more correctly, licenses... Just because they have purchased the book, doesn't mean they can offer unlimited downloads... If they want one copy, they buy one license, if they want 5 copies, they buy 5 licenses... If a library system has 5 copies of a book and 50 people waiting for it, it might be a good idea for them to purchase more copies (or licenses).... Once Kindle Owners start using the libraries to borrow books, those wait times are going to at least triple if the libraries/publishers/overdrive/Amzaon don't work something out to make more licenses available to each library without the library having to foot the tab...

eBooks are much more expensive than paper books for libraries. A library can usually get about a 40% discount on paper books, yet they pay full price for ebooks...


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## meowzart (Mar 29, 2011)

this is awesome news.  I wonder how long before that will be international too?  Not too long I hope!


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

There is no way for ADE EPub books to be made to work on the Kindle in a way that does not violate the terms of agreement with ADE. It is one thing for an individual to skirt that problem, it is another for Overdrive to do so.

On top of that, the library books are meant to work with Whyspersync. Amazon is going to keep the notes and bookmarks from the library book so that they can be used if you buy the book or borrow it again. I cannot see that working with a converted EPub.

Overdrive is going to end up with Kindle version Ebooks. My money is on Amazon underwriting the cost of those ebooks so that Overdrive is not overly taxed and end up charging libraries more.


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## davem2bits (Feb 2, 2009)

Luvmy4brats said:


> eBooks are much more expensive than paper books for libraries. A library can usually get about a 40% discount on paper books, yet they pay full price for ebooks...


It's probably worse than that. I'm sure Overdrive gets some dough for their wizardry.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Definitely good news for Kindle owners.  Hopefully the selection of mobi books grows quickly.  Really seems like it would be easier for Amazon to just add ePub support so libraries don't have to buy copies in multiple formats though.

I'm not sure how much use I'd make of it personally. The library in my city does offer e-books, but I don't even have a library card yet.  And I'm not sure how interested I'm in about having to rush to finish books in the 14 day window etc. since I don't read that much per day compared to most here.


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## ReginaLovesHer Kindle (Nov 30, 2009)

Some Overdrive systems allow for a 21 day check out period -- it depends on the system.

I just saw this on overdrive:

http://overdriveblogs.com/library/


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## angelmum3 (Sep 12, 2010)

I have to say I really didnt think this was a Legit posting, but more whining or wishing that Kindle users could access library books!!

Thanks to a PP that stated the Philadelphia Lending Library is free for over 65 - even out of state ( I could see that changing as the growth of ereaders continues to skyrocket!)  Its one reason that my mom thought Nook would be better than Kindle - my dd and I convinced her she would have so many books, she wouldnt miss the feature - plus - she'll still always go to the library, its part of her routine, but, when she's on vacation, etc ... she has her kindle!

Cant wait to see how it all plays out!


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

Yay!!


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## davem2bits (Feb 2, 2009)

ReginaLovesHer Kindle said:


> Some Overdrive systems allow for a 21 day check out period -- it depends on the system.


Please learn how the system works folks!! By all means check out the ebook for 21 days but please return it if you finish before that 21 days is up. This is available in Adobe Digital Edition; at least for ebooks I checkout thru my library. And now there will be even more demand for these ebooks.


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## ReginaLovesHer Kindle (Nov 30, 2009)

davem2bits said:


> Please learn how the system works folks!! By all means check out the ebook for 21 days but please return it if you finish before that 21 days is up. This is available in Adobe Digital Edition; at least for ebooks I checkout thru my library. And now there will be even more demand for these ebooks.


I always do return early, if I am done. I wish there was a way to return audio books early.

By the way, the other programs allow early return -- not just ADE.


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

From the Overdrive Press Release:



> Your existing collection of downloadable eBooks will be available to Kindle customers. As you add new eBooks to your collection, those titles will also be available in Kindle format for lending to Kindle and Kindle reading apps. Your library will not need to purchase any additional units to have Kindle compatibility. This will work for your existing copies and units.


It currently sounds like all library ebooks are going to magically be available in a format for the Kindle later this year. I wonder if that means a library's already overused ebook collection will then have to stretch to accommodate many, many more users? Well I hope they can figure out something there because it would be weird to go to a library and have absolutely no ebooks available for checkout.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

chipotle said:


> From the Overdrive Press Release:
> 
> It currently sounds like all library ebooks are going to magically be available in a format for the Kindle later this year. *I wonder if that means a library's already overused ebook collection will then have to stretch to accommodate many, many more users? *Well I hope they can figure out something there because it would be weird to go to a library and have absolutely no ebooks available for checkout.


This is what I'm worried about. Library systems don't have the budgets for this.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

ReginaLovesHer Kindle said:


> I always thought that this was the way to go and the way it would happen first -- Amazon works with Overdrive to get the Amazon format available through overdrive.com v. ePub on the Kindle. Amazon could give overdrive the tools to convert the ePub books to Mobi, but then they would need the agreement from Adobe and why would they give that?


Overdrive shouldn't have to convert books - they could get them in .mobi (or .azw) from the publishers, the way they get ePubs or PDFs from publishers. I don't know if they still are, I haven't seen them, but .mobi files have been available from libraries in the past. What stopped them from being readable on Kindle is that Amazon blocks the ability to access the Kindle's ID # (PID) that's required to authorize the book to that Kindle.

Now whether that's how Amazon and Overdrive will go with this is another question, but that would seem to be a simpler solution than having to convert ePubs and PDFs (I usually avoid PDF library books anyway, they just don't work well on my nook or my Sony reader). And with the lending option they've already got in place for Kindle owners to lend to each other, it hopefully won't be that difficult to extend to the Overdrive system. Remains to be seen though.

As far as lending times go - I use 3 different libraries for Overdrive, and I believe each has it's own lending period policies - but there are choices with each, and you can choose your lending period when you check out a book. I was just checking to see what the policies are at each, and saw this interesting note on returning books early: "Note that if you return an excessive number of Adobe eBooks early, your eBook borrowing privileges may be temporarily suspended." I guess if you were to constantly just check out books and return them after just a couple of days they'd start to think you were stripping them and keeping and/or distributing them - ie pirating them. I do try to remember to return books as soon as I'm done with them so the next person on the list can get them.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

My library already has almost no ebooks available for checkouts right now. There are 1340 fiction books and 2101 total ebooks at mine. Very few are without a wait. 

What I am wondering also is about that free library, what is is Philadelphia? Imagine that being your local library where anyone from anywhere can check out ebooks. Personally I would be a bit peeved if they did that with our local one. I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped that practice once all the Kindle owners come marching in


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

The Advanced Search in Overdrive is the best way to check how many ebooks are available at any given time because you can specify to see only the books available for checkout in the search. I just checked ebook availability at four libraries.

My local library:
Adobe EPUB - 1585 total, 1048 available for checkout
Adobe PDF - 631 total, 514 available for checkout

Free Library of Philadelphia 
Adobe EPUB - 4149 total, 1072 available for checkout
Adobe PDF - 1042, 397 available for checkout
They also offer several hundred Open EPUB and Open PDF ebooks.

Regional Library #1
Adobe EPUB - 3638 total, 1814 available for checkout
Adobe PDF - 1792, 1069 available for checkout

Regional Library #2
Adobe EPUB 1269, 523 available for checkout
Adobe PDF 963, 680 available for checkout

This also doesn't factor in hold times. Like I said, the longest hold I ever had was 3 weeks for a new Nora Roberts book. Several ebooks I put on hold were available the next morning. If you click on each individual book in the Overdrive catalog it will tell you how many patrons have a hold on it.


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## Tris (Oct 30, 2008)

Atunah said:


> My library already has almost no ebooks available for checkouts right now. There are 1340 fiction books and 2101 total ebooks at mine. Very few are without a wait.


Did a quick check on some of my fav but popular authors... My library seems to have all the older titles but none of the newer ones. At least we don't have many holds.

Tris


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Out of the 1600 epubs at my library, 250 are available and I see a lot of how to's and books for dummies, public domain and stuff like that. There are only about 500 PDF's and most of those are also checked out.  The Murder club first book from James Patterson has 62 patrons waiting  

I hadn't checked at my library in a while as far as ebooks goes as I just can't read them on my netbook even though I tried. There are long waiting lists on a lot of the books, although some of the books have several copies available, I have seen even 8 or 10 available. Apparently ebooks have caught on quite a bit in my city. 

Those waiting lists are going to mushroom.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

chipotle said:


> I am a member of several public libraries including the Free Library of Philadelphia (which also has Freegal where you can download 3 free songs a week from the Sony Music Collection) which currently costs $35 a year for non-residents. (It is free for everyone over 65, even out-of-staters.) Most of my libraries have a 21 day to 28 day checkout period - every library is different. Some, like the Free Library, allow you to decide how long you are going to check out a book from 7 to 28 days.
> 
> I keep wishlists at each library of books I want to read and then I can scan through them quickly to find books that are available for checkout when I need more books. I also do holds for the more popular books and the longest I waited was 3 weeks for the newest Nora Roberts wedding books.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad you mentioned Freegal - I also have a FLP card & hadn't known about accessing it - I was wondering whether I'd be renewing my card now that it's $35 instead of $15 - Freegal could make the extra charge worthwhile (just wish I'd paid attention and known about it sooner!).

The Wiki is a good starting point but far from complete. Google Overdrive + the name of your city or county and nearby counties. There's a county system in Florida, for example, that allows access to ALL Florida residents, at least for now, although publishers seem to be pushing Overdrive and/or libraries to restrict geographically more and more. Also note that members of each branch of the military service, active duty and retired, have access to Overdrive through their respective service's library. To get access to the Air Force Overdrive system, you have to go to your local base library. Navy can do it online with CAC info. Not sure about how the Army system works.


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## MickeyB (Apr 2, 2011)

This is so cool! I love that my Kindle can be updated & I don't have to trade it in for a "newer" version


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

I checked the library i use....

epub: 1823 available, 3638 total
pdf: 1068 available, 1792

I've had waits a few weeks, up to a month. I have enough to fill in with freebies that it is fine... it has let me start and read a few series that i would haven't have read otherwise!I figure that library books reduce my cost per book each time i borrow one - which leaves more $$ (well, theoretically - talk to me NEXT month) to more books....


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

It doesn't sound like libraries have to buy extra inventory and that Overdrive will coordinate it based on the device the user owns.

http://overdriveblogs.com/library/2011/04/20/kindle-library-lending-and-overdrive-what-it-means-for-libraries-and-schools/
_
The Kindle Library Lending program will integrate into your existing OverDrive-powered 'Virtual Branch' website.

Your existing collection of downloadable eBooks will be available to Kindle customers. As you add new eBooks to your collection, those titles will also be available in Kindle format for lending to Kindle and Kindle reading apps. Your library will not need to purchase any additional units to have Kindle compatibility. This will work for your existing copies and units.

A user will be able to browse for titles on any desktop or mobile operating system, check out a title with a library card, and then select Kindle as the delivery destination. The borrowed title will then be able to be enjoyed using any Kindle device and all of Amazon's free Kindle Reading Apps._


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## RobertK (Aug 2, 2010)

YES!

Now maybe I can sell my wife on one.


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

I think this will all work out in the end even with additional borrowers because it is possible to be a member of several libraries and pay for access to some. 

The thing that concerns me the most is the response of the publishers. Didn't a few publishers rescind the 2-week, one-time lending of their books when Amazon finally allowed ebook lending between users? Now imagine if more publishers stop ebook lending at libraries. Macmillan and Simon and Schuster already won't allow ebooks in public libraries and HarperCollins has new lending limits which has caused libraries (including the Free Library of Philadelphia) to stop buying their ebooks.

I guess it is possible that publishers can finally do something really smart and embrace ebooks in public libraries but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Xopher (May 14, 2009)

To me, it sounds like there is going to be a link between Overdrive and Amazon where the files will still be sent through Amazon after Overdrive sends over the lending information. So, Amazon would control lending similarly to how they do it with sharing ebooks now. 

The plus side to this is that it ties the lending to your Amazon account, ties notes to be accessed via their website (even after the loan period expires),  and also gives Amazon a way to link to the ebook in case the borrower wants to purchase it in the future. 

"You borrowed xxx from the library - click here to purchase and add to your account". 

I would think that this is how they are going to do it since lending will be available to all generations of Kindle,  and I don't see them pushing out an update to K1 (or K2 models).  It was how they got personal lending available to all generation Kindles, so that is what makes me think they will handle it through Amazon's service.


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## laurie_lu (May 10, 2010)

The library feature will finally make the Kindle a perfect ereader for me.


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## Neekeebee (Jan 10, 2009)

When I heard the news on the radio this AM, I yelled; "Thank you, Amazon!"   I had been considering getting a second Sony e-reader b/c I wanted a larger screen than my Pocket Ed, but now I will not.  I do like the Sony devices, and sadly, I believe this will mean the end of the Sony readers and less competition in the eReader market.

As for the waiting lists ballooning with the addition of Kindle users, I'm sure it will happen in the short term.  However, I wonder how many Kindle users currently are borrowing paper books from their libraries and who can now switch over to borrowing ebooks?  This may allow libraries to shift their funds to purchase fewer paper copies and more ebook copies of some best sellers.

N


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## MacLarens Pub (Apr 19, 2011)

It would be interesting (and this is just a hypothetical idea), if OverDrive worked out some agreement with all these companies and the libraries that would allow them to receive a book in a RAW digital format. From there, with associations, agreements, and technological support from the companies that brand themselves into their formats (.epub, .mobi, .pdf, etc.) OverDrive can then format the RAW ebook file into any and all respective ebook formats. To do this, they will have special formatting software that could encode all the DRM into each format, optimizing each format with all the little tweaks that are unique to the devices.

Now, before I get told off, I'm not real familiar with the other eReaders out there. I also don't know how the library system works, but I do know it would be a wise idea economically for authors to start distributing their books into a RAW format ONLY to libraries (no retail, not online). This leaves the job up to an updated OverDrive software that allows users to download books from their library, choose their preferred device or extension, and it will then generate the ebook, optimize it for the device, and have it's DRM restrictions encoded within it (expiration date, non-copy, non-print, etc.)

It may be a hassle starting off, but with the kindle now on board for public library lending, it's about time the system starts reevaluating its options. All the major eReaders are now on board for digital loaning. Culture has vastly migrated to digital media, so the old rules and the old system is pretty much out of date. If everyone can get on board, lend OverDrive their coding (for encryption and customization), it could save the library millions of dollars in licensing fees.

Again, this is just a hypothetical idea of mine. I should make it a business proposition, yes?


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I keep looking back and remembering the waiting lost for newer books for ebook library lending.  Number what?: 76


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## TerryB (Jan 5, 2011)

Will someone explain - in simple words  - how one "checks out" an eBook from your local library?  I've only downloaded books from Amazon - so I'm clueless as to how someone gets library books downloaded.  Do you go to the library and ask for the eBook section?  Do you download it at the library or can you download it online??  Please explain - I would greatly appreciate it!!


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## MacLarens Pub (Apr 19, 2011)

TerryB said:


> Will someone explain - in simple words  - how one "checks out" an eBook from your local library? I would greatly appreciate it!!


From my local library, I just go to their website. They have an exclusive section for eBooks. They ask me to install some Adobe Digital Editions program that will manage all my downloads. Once I do that, I just click on the book I want (if it's available), click "Add to Cart" and "Checkout". It will then transfer your downloads to this Adobe Digital Editions plug-in, and from there you can read them on the computer or transfer them to a eReader that can accept & display the ePub files.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

TerryB said:


> Will someone explain - in simple words  - how one "checks out" an eBook from your local library? I've only downloaded books from Amazon - so I'm clueless as to how someone gets library books downloaded. Do you go to the library and ask for the eBook section? Do you download it at the library or can you download it online?? Please explain - I would greatly appreciate it!!


http://overdrive.com/Resources/

there is a 'emedia' section on my local library's site. I put in my card number and my pin password. I had to download the Overdrive app to my computer, but I also have the app on my itouch too. takes a little getting used to, but you have KB to help you along


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## Tris (Oct 30, 2008)

TerryB said:


> Will someone explain - in simple words  - how one "checks out" an eBook from your local library? I've only downloaded books from Amazon - so I'm clueless as to how someone gets library books downloaded. Do you go to the library and ask for the eBook section? Do you download it at the library or can you download it online?? Please explain - I would greatly appreciate it!!


I never used Overdrive and was pondering this as well. I just checked out my library system's website and there was specific area for ebooks and eaudiobooks with directions. The great thing was that there was a YouTube video on how it works which was a lot easier to follow. I think I will try it on my iPad to toy around with it. Only I have to get thru the few books I have to finish before scrounging around for another.

So I would suggest you look around your local library systems website, or if you have an "answer line" like mine does, you can always call as well.

Tris


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## Chris W (Aug 17, 2009)

I got my first library card almost 40 years ago, frequent trips with my parents to our local branch are what fueled my lifelong love of reading. Buying my first Kindle (original DX, pre-ordered and delivered on day 1) got me reinvigorated in reading pleasure books in my busy life, along with using my device for my current college courseload whenever possible. I'm fine with buying books that I really love, but I've had to tradeoff the enjoyment of using my Kindle with reading DTB's that I'm only willing to borrow from our local library.
In January, the Fresno County Library finally offered ebooks through Overdrive. I had just bought my wife a new K3 for her birthday in late December, and thought about returning it for a Nook, just to have the option of using an e-reader to check out books. But so far we've suffered through the Overdrive app on our iPhones, and the Adobe Digital Editions App on my MacBook Pro. The lack of synching between devices, plus not being able to read on an actual e-reader has been annoying, this announcement has me very excited.
Libraries need to start moving into the 21st century, so all the posts about them not being able to afford to purchase e-books is a false dichotomy. As e-readers of all stripes become more popular, libraries will be able to buy more electronic books and less DT versions. This will meet the demands of their patrons (customers). One way you can help move them towards supporting e-book purchases is by getting involved. I'm a member of our Friends of the Library organization, and I've asked that money from our group start to be split into both DTB and e-book funding. 
People have said that e-books are more expensive than DTB versions. While that might be true up front, the total cost of distribution might end up being cheaper for e-books. In a regional system like ours, if you request a book that isn't available at your branch, it's delivered from another branch for you to pickup. Physical books must be prepped for library use with covers, and repaired when damaged. None of these costs exist for e-books.
Our library has a whole 386 ePub books available as of today. But when they debuted in late January, it was with less than 100 titles. I'm going to keep pushing them to add titles to support patrons like me, who embrace technology, reading, and recognize that the library of 2020 will be much different than that of 1990.


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## planet_janet (Feb 23, 2010)

Elk said:


> Apparently libraries will offer both epub and mobi ebooks.


My library already has many books in its ebook collection available in both epub and mobi formats.

I am so excited about this! I have been using Overdrive on my iPad for reading library ebooks, but I would absolutely prefer to be able to read them on my Kindle.


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## planet_janet (Feb 23, 2010)

TerryB said:


> Will someone explain - in simple words  - how one "checks out" an eBook from your local library?


I have the Overdrive app on my iPad. I go to my library's website and sign into my eAccount. I can then browse or search by title or author. When I find the book I want, I select it and choose "e-request". Typically, the book is not immediately available, so I go onto the waiting list. When the book becomes available, I get an email from my library telling me I have three days to retrieve the book. Then, on my iPad, I go back into my eAccount and select "my erequests". The available title/s shows up there. I click on the title, add it to my cart, and check out. Once I select check out, my iPad launches the Overdrive app, and the book is downloaded wirelessly. I then use the Overdrive app to read the book. After 21 days, the book is wirelessly removed from the Overdrive app. There was a bit of a learning curve--both in learning how to use Overdrive on my iPad, and in learning how to navigate and use my library's e-lending website, but after I had downloaded one book, I knew how to easily do it the next time.


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

Do the books come directly to the Kindle via Whispernet?, or do we move them over from the computer?  I'm guessing this is going to help Amazon to further solidify their hold on the ebook market.

Gene


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Whispernet. At least, that is what the announcement said.


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

I wounder how this will impact the Apple iBook store?  BTW, does anyone know how the iBook store is doing these days?

Gene


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## Lysis_and_Isis (Aug 13, 2010)

Neekeebee said:


> I do like the Sony devices, and sadly, I believe this will mean the end of the Sony readers and less competition in the eReader market.


While it could well mean the end of Sony readers in the States, it will never mean their end elsewhere in the world -- not as long as Sonys offer ePub and LRF and Amazon offers only mobi, their proprietary format.

I really hope Sony continues to sell readers in the States, however. The Pocket Reader satisfies an ergonomic need as no Kindle ever has. Additionally, the entire Reader line's _Pearl touch screens_, all-aluminum enclosures and customizable user options combine aesthetics and quality with flexibility in ways no Kindle does. I say this as an owner and frequent user of both the Kindle and the Pocket.

I might even purchase a PRS-650 before the entire lot vanish completely.

If you check around the web, you'll find that the number of offerings in ePub is staggering, and that the Sony-formatted versions of Gutenberg books offered on Mobile Read Forums' eBook library (particularly the ones produced by a user named Patricia) destroy the mobi versions offered at a price on Amazon: far better proofed and formatted. Converting Patricia's labors of love to mobi in Calibre doesn't do them justice.

================================

What I like best about the coming Amazon library option is that it sounds as if it will be far more inclusive than downloading from individual libraries. This means that the Kindle is likely to become the _best option for library users_, esp. in terms of inclusive searchable content.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Arlington County Library is in Overdrive. . . I have a card but haven't used it in years. . . .I expect sometime this summer I'll pop into a physical branch to make sure my account is still valid (tried to enter the card number on line to open an e-account but it didn't recognize the number) so I will be able to borrow if I want to once it becomes available.  Still not sure how much I'll actually do it, but it's a good development.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I just applied for a library card in my county. May as well give this a test drive.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

For those of you in the iPad, if you haven't tried the Bluefire Read app yet (free) give it a go. You have to load the books manually, but I much prefer the actual reading experience on it. They have better white space on the pages for one, and it also supports PDF versions.

I just drop the book on my iDisk, download it into good reader and then move it into Bluefire. I was just emailing them to myself... But my computer decided to NOT email itself for some reason right now...

Off to go see what I have waiting at the library - just finished a book!


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

I agree that Amazon can make the Kindle the best option for library users. If they can bypass Adobe Digital Editions which is buggy at its best and make the process of borrowing a library book simpler, I might upgrade to a K3.

I prefer my nook classic over my K2 because I like swiping instead of clicking a button to turn pages. (It has to do with the way I read - I often prop up the nook instead of hold it in my hand.) But if Amazon can make the library borrowing process simpler and free of the frequent burps and error messages of Adobe Digital Editions, I'm all in.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

I dusted off my card and went to the Arrowhead Library System online, but when I put my number in I was informed my card was expired. Then I seemed to remember that they were things you had to occasionally renew. So, you know, I was something like 5 years late in doing so.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

TraceyC/FL said:


> For those of you in the iPad, if you haven't tried the Bluefire Read app yet (free) give it a go. You have to load the books manually, but I much prefer the actual reading experience on it. They have better white space on the pages for one, and it also supports PDF versions.
> 
> I just drop the book on my iDisk, download it into good reader and then move it into Bluefire. I was just emailing them to myself... But my computer decided to NOT email itself for some reason right now...
> 
> Off to go see what I have waiting at the library - just finished a book!


There's a way to set it up on the iPad to open the books right in the bluefire app.. no need to do it manually. I think Betsy posted the directions some time ago...


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## CoffeeCat (Sep 13, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I find it interesting that they foresee a method whereby you can make notes in the library book, which will not be available to another borrower, but will be available to you if you borrow again _or if you purchase the book from Amazon_. That's just brilliant.


I was quite impressed by this too.


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## Pamela Kay Noble Brown (Mar 3, 2011)

sleepy6553 said:


> Here's the link. It just showed up on my Facebook page:
> 
> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1552678&highlight=


Wow. This is wonderful. I imagine it would just disappear after the due date too, so now more late fines. 

Pamela


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

Just had a little light bulb go on...my hometown library is AWESOME.  And, after checking their site, (drumroll) I see they have ebooks.


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## VujaDe (Oct 2, 2010)

Elk said:


> Can you provide us with an idea of the cost and how this compares to buying physical copies?


Sorry...I didn't check the boards again yesterday.

Our consortium pays about $75,000 per year for the Overdrive service but the amount of titles and formats are limited. When we met and discussed how many more titles we would need to serve our patrons and keep the waiting periods down, we found that we would need to pay $250,000 and it just wasn't possible this year.

One large county system in our area purchased their own package from Overdrive just for their branches and paid $200,000. It's just not possible for most smaller library systems.

With budget cuts coming left and right, it's hard to find the money for this service even though it's becoming more and more necessary.


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## rahrah12 (Jan 28, 2011)

Great news!

I just got a library card from my local library.  I was jealous of the other ereaders ability to rent books.  Only problem is that I won't be able to take my time in reading the books like I usually do...


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## planet_janet (Feb 23, 2010)

davem2bits said:


> Please learn how the system works folks!! By all means check out the ebook for 21 days but please return it if you finish before that 21 days is up. This is available in Adobe Digital Edition; at least for ebooks I checkout thru my library. And now there will be even more demand for these ebooks.


For my library system, epub books can only be returned early via ADE. And, if patrons return too many epub books earlier than their default lending period (set by the user, up to 21 days), they may have their ebook borrowing privileges temporarily suspended. So folks should definitely research their library's policies beforehand.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Luvmy4brats said:


> There's a way to set it up on the iPad to open the books right in the bluefire app.. no need to do it manually. I think Betsy posted the directions some time ago...


Not to divert this to an iPad discussion, but here's a link to my post about puttiing your books directly into Bluefire http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,42048.msg765291.html#msg765291.

Betsy


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

A friend just sent me this Overdrive Blog entry about Kindle and library lending via Overdrive. I thought you all might be interested.

http://overdriveblogs.com/library/2011/04/20/kindle-library-lending-and-overdrive-what-it-means-for-libraries-and-schools/


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

planet_janet said:


> For my library system, epub books can only be returned early via ADE. And, if patrons return too many epub books earlier than their default lending period (set by the user, up to 21 days), they may have their ebook borrowing privileges temporarily suspended. So folks should definitely research their library's policies beforehand.


So they punish people for reading quickly and/or returning books they discover they don't like to make them available to others more quickly?! What is the logic behind that?


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

s0nicfreak said:


> So they punish people for reading quickly and/or returning books they discover they don't like to make them available to others more quickly?! What is the logic behind that?


I'm guessing if it happens too often they get suspicious that you're just downloading them and stripping them - and maybe even putting them on torrent sites.


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## PraiseGod13 (Oct 27, 2008)

This IS good news... but there are definitely Overdrive issues that we'll have to contend with.  "Punishing" people for returning books early makes no earthly sense to me at all.  People keeping the Overdrive-borrowed books for the full two weeks is a major part of the incredibly long wait for a book you have reserved from them.  And, as I have mentioned before.... our library is only one of several hundred libraries that subscribe to Overdrive through a library group here in the center of our state.  So... hundreds of libraries with one Overdrive subscription... each library having hundreds if not thousands of patrons.... with one copy of most books available.... the waiting time for a book can be months and months.  I have a girlfriend who just reserved an Overdrive ebook from her library and she is number 83 on the waiting list.  At two weeks per lending.... it could be years....


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

Meemo said:


> I'm guessing if it happens too often they get suspicious that you're just downloading them and stripping them - and maybe even putting them on torrent sites.


There's probably something to that. But it also may be a business tactic on Overdrive's part. If more people returned ebooks early, the wait lists wouldn't be so long, meaning fewer ebooks would be needed to satisfy demand. When wait times are longer, libraries may purchase more copies of an ebook, which benefits Overdrive financially.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

VujaDe said:


> Our consortium pays about $75,000 per year for the Overdrive service but the amount of titles and formats are limited. When we met and discussed how many more titles we would need to serve our patrons and keep the waiting periods down, we found that we would need to pay $250,000 and it just wasn't possible this year.


Yike.

How does this compare to buying an equivalent number of physical books?


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> There's probably something to that. But it also may be a business tactic on Overdrive's part. If more people returned ebooks early, the wait lists wouldn't be so long, meaning fewer ebooks would be needed to satisfy demand. When wait times are longer, libraries may purchase more copies of an ebook, which benefits Overdrive financially.


I'd guess it's more the piracy thing and that it's something publishers made them put in place to stop people who just download, strip DRM and return the book and move on to the next one.

That said, I wonder if that's even much of a threat. I image most every popular book is out on the pirate sites and torrents already anyway.


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> There's probably something to that. But it also may be a business tactic on Overdrive's part. If more people returned ebooks early, the wait lists wouldn't be so long, meaning fewer ebooks would be needed to satisfy demand. When wait times are longer, libraries may purchase more copies of an ebook, which benefits Overdrive financially.


That is probably it, although they probably _claim_ it is because of piracy. Either way it is another example of how treating customers as criminals makes things more difficult for customers while having no effect on piracy...


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Not to divert this to an iPad discussion, but here's a link to my post about puttiing your books directly into Bluefire http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,42048.msg765291.html#msg765291.
> 
> Betsy


Cool beans - i will have to give it a whirl later!!


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

s0nicfreak said:


> . . . while having no effect on piracy...


Such policies have little impact on the dedicated, sophisticated pirate.

They do, however, hamper casual sharing and copying by the average person.

Regardless, punishing early returns is silly - even if the anti-piracy speculation is correct.


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

Elk said:


> Such policies have little impact on the dedicated, sophisticated pirate.
> 
> They do, however, hamper casual sharing and copying by the average person.


I think the average person is a lot less likely to strip the DRM off a book than a dedicated, sophisticated pirate. The average person is more likely to download a book with the DRM already stripped by the dedicated pirate, and share _that_.

But I digress... let's get back on subject.

_WOO HOO LIBRARY BOOKS!!_


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

s0nicfreak said:


> The average person is more likely to download a book with the DRM already stripped by the dedicated pirate, and share _that_.


There are lot of people around who would casually copy a DRM-free ebook popular ebook if it came this way from the publisher. Witness how many readily make a copy of an audio CD for others.

There are many fewer sufficiently sophisticated to know how and where to find DRM-stripped copyrighted books.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Elk said:


> There are lot of people around who would casually copy a DRM-free ebook popular ebook if it came this way from the publisher. Witness how many readily make a copy of an audio CD for others.
> 
> There are many fewer sufficiently sophisticated to know how and where to find DRM-stripped copyrighted books.


That's very true of DRM in general. It stops the casual sharing, but does nothing to stop pirates.

It's irrelevant to the issue of punishing early returns of library books though since those all have time limited DRM and thus can only be kept/shared by tech inclined people who know how to strip DRM.

So the early return policy does nothing to stop casual sharing (as it's irrelevant in this case), and is just designed to catch heavy pirates who are stripping DRM and returning books immediately and block them from the service. Unfortunately it will also hamper fast readers who regularly finish a book in a day or two.


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## TLM (Apr 8, 2010)

The library of the very small city where I live doesn't have e-books.  The really large city the merges with us does have e-lending for their library.  It costs $30/yr to a card to the big city library.  I would gladly pay that for e-lending to my local library if it help enable e-lending.

But YIPEE!!! Library Books!  Now the Kindle is truely perfect. (at least for me)


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm quite sure that the NYPL doesn't punish for many early returns.  Popular books have a long waiting list, and most people don't take 3 weeks to read them. A lot of people here on KBoards read a book in a day or two.  Early returns do not indicate that the DRM was stripped.


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## KyahCA (Mar 7, 2011)

I hope this shows up in Canada too.


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## planet_janet (Feb 23, 2010)

I did a bit more research and discovered that for my library system, the rules regarding returning Adobe epub ebooks and Adobe PDF ebooks early do not apply to mobi ebooks.  This leads me to believe that this is not a library-specific rule, but perhaps an Adobe rule.    I am going to call the library next week and find out if they can explain this to me.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Filled out the online applications for a library card in anticipation of this.  Plus I have an iPad, so I can get library books on there in the meantime.

Doesn't look like the local library has a great selection, with most big name authors having long waiting lists, so I'm not sure how much I'll use it anyway.  But nice to have the option.


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## Tripp (May 28, 2009)

I have a Nook exclusively for library books.  I really don't go for the best sellers all that much (except for Follett's latest overpriced tome).  However, if I see a book in Amazon that interests me but is overpriced, I will go to my library and look for it.  If they have it, I will either place a hold or add it to my wish list.  Then, if there is a wait, I will read from my Kindle backlog until the library book becomes available.  So far, it hasn't been too long of a wait for most of them.


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## BevAnneS (May 11, 2010)

I am so excited about this!  I actually purchased a Nook so I could read library books, but will selling it just as soon as my Kindle can be used for that purpose.  Bet this will have a definite effect on the number of Nooks available on the secondary market and will certainly hurt new sales also as the Nook doesn't hold a candle to the Kindle except for that one feature.


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## MoonStarRaven (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah! I can't wait to check out ebooks! I actually almost bought a Nook instead of a Kindle because of the library issue. I am so glad now that I bought the Kindle anyway! I'm lucky in that even though I don't live in a big major city, my local library still has a rather large ebook selection that seems to be an even number of mobi and epub books.


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## hamerfan (Apr 24, 2011)

Really looking forward to this, if true. Kindle won my vote in every category except two. No user-serviceable battery and no open-source formats.
With library books becoming available for Kindle, it makes my decision look even smarter. Thanks, Amazon!


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

s0nicfreak said:


> So they punish people for reading quickly and/or returning books they discover they don't like to make them available to others more quickly?! What is the logic behind that?


In addition to possibly trying to discourage DRM-strippers, as people mentioned, they might just be trying to get readers to do a little research and only download (check out) books that they are fairly certain they actually want to read. I'm certainly not saying this is a good move on the library's part, but it's possible there are readers who put just about every book on their waiting list or wishlist, and then decide AFTER they check it out whether it's something they want to read or not (and quickly return it if they don't). This is particularly bad for the publisher (I forget which one) which is implementing check out limits for their books.


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## SheilaJ (Apr 10, 2011)

I am excited about this.  I talked to one of the librarians here and she said that our library that currently doesn't subscribe to overdrive is looking in to it!  One problem that she foresees however is that the licensing for any particular book can be for just a certain number of circulations so that once it has circulated for example 25 times it will disappear from the library the same way it will disappear from your kindle after 2 weeks.  And considering that it wouldn't just be for 1 library but for an entire system of libraries that isn't much.  That doesn't sound like such a good deal to me.


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

SheilaJ, the 26 check-out circulation limit is just for HarperCollins ebooks. They announced it in February and there was so much heated discussion. Some libraries are boycotting HarperCollins ebooks and some will just refuse to purchase their books for their ebook collection. There is no circulation limit number for any other ebooks in the Overdrive system as far as I know and I've read things that indicate HarperCollins may be backtracking.

Here is the original announcement:

http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/889452-264/harpercollins_puts_26_loan_cap.html.csp

And here is an article stating that HarperCollins is possibly rethinking the decision:

http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/890077-264/harpercollins_executive_calls_circulation_cap.html.csp

I'm hoping that they will change the policy. It still is better than Macmillan and Simon and Schuster - they currently do not allow ANY of their ebooks to be circulated by public libraries.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

I checked with my library and they said they don't punish for early returns, because, gee, it cuts down on the wait list times. I was happy to hear it and won't hesitate to return books when I'm actually done!


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Sigh.. My college uses http://www.netlibrary.com/ 
not overdrive. And Kindle is not supported there yet.


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## GrouchoKindle (Apr 14, 2011)

I just find it bizarre that this is still tied to physical locations of libraries. And for most of those locations (at least those around me) I have to physically go in and get a card before it'll work.


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## teddyb (Nov 21, 2010)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2011/04/amazon-to-offer-kindle-library-lending-catch.html


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

> Amazon announced Wednesday that it will offer library lending for Kindle ebooks. While this announcement was met with much rejoicing, it was made without many specifics. For example, the program lacks a public launch date. When, exactly, will libraries offer ebooks for the Kindle?
> 
> According to Amazon's press release, "later this year."
> 
> Other major specifics were left out of the announcement: the length of the lending period, which publishers will participate in the program, and if there will be any limit to the number of times a Kindle ebook can be checked out. All of these questions remain significant when it comes to talking about libraries and ebooks.


To answer their first question, Amazon is always vague. The new Kindle will be out later this year, etc. In the past that hasn't been *too* far in the future. Maybe 2 months?

To answer the second question, the author linked to Overdrive's site. If they had dug around, they'd have seen that it varies by library and could have seen which publishers are available. As for the number of times a book can be checked out? Well, has HarperCollins started their 26 checkout policy yet? And will others join that bandwagon?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

_merged a couple of threads on the same topic. . .sorry for any confusion. . . ._


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

GrouchoKindle said:


> I just find it bizarre that this is still tied to physical locations of libraries. And for most of those locations (at least those around me) I have to physically go in and get a card before it'll work.


It probably isn't the best system, but it's tied to your physical location because it's your tax dollars - property tax dollars - that support your local library. You aren't entitled to check out books (physical or ebooks) from the NYC library unless you pay taxes to NY state. If you don't contribute, you don't get to use it.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Well I got my library card today and checked out the selection of e-books some more now that I can log it.  It's not great, but not terrible.  800 some fiction e-books and a littler under 300 non-fiction.  A lot of the popular fiction books are on long waits (10+ people), but I saw a handful of non-fiction books I've been wanting to read that had 0-3 people waiting, so I'll probably get some use out of it for that.  I'll try reading some on my iPad while waiting for the Kindle update.  Put a couple things on hold already.

Also checked out the Watchman graphic novel and bought The Kite Runner paperback for .50 cents.


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/890302-264/librarians_hope_for_a_seamless.html.csp


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm really excited about library books for Kindle, I hope it goes seamlessly as well.  It sounds like the waits will get longer, but I am most concerned about stories of Overdrive huge increase of cost to the libraries, as well as publishers limiting the number of times a library can check out an eBook.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

mooshie78 said:


> Well I got my library card today and checked out the selection of e-books some more now that I can log it. It's not great, but not terrible. 800 some fiction e-books and a littler under 300 non-fiction. A lot of the popular fiction books are on long waits (10+ people), but I saw a handful of non-fiction books I've been wanting to read that had 0-3 people waiting, so I'll probably get some use out of it for that. I'll try reading some on my iPad while waiting for the Kindle update. Put a couple things on hold already.
> 
> Also checked out the Watchman graphic novel and bought The Kite Runner paperback for .50 cents.


Just a hint - go ahead and start putting books on your "Wish List" - when you get through the 1100 books they have now, you can start sorting by "Date Added" and cut down how long it takes to go through the entire list. You'll still be searching for authors or titles sometimes but I've found that starting my "Wish List" from the get-go has been very helpful.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> It probably isn't the best system, but it's tied to your physical location because it's your tax dollars - property tax dollars - that support your local library. You aren't entitled to check out books (physical or ebooks) from the NYC library unless you pay taxes to NY state. If you don't contribute, you don't get to use it.


Yep.

Plus if they let anyone sign up, the already long waits for most popular e-books would be even more ridiculous.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Meemo said:


> Just a hint - go ahead and start putting books on your "Wish List" - when you get through the 1100 books they have now, you can start sorting by "Date Added" and cut down how long it takes to go through the entire list. You'll still be searching for authors or titles sometimes but I've found that starting my "Wish List" from the get-go has been very helpful.


Yeah, that's something I definitely should do. I don't want to have a lot of holds on at one time as I don't want a bunch to come due at once, or while I'm in the middle of long book I bought etc.. But I should put together a wishlist of all the things that interest me to have it all in one place.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Added quite a few books to my wishlist, and then decided not to go to gungho as they were all ePubs or PDFs.  Who knows if those wishlisted books will update to kindle versions down the road automaticall, or if I'll have to delete them are re-add kindle format versions where available.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

mooshie78 said:


> Added quite a few books to my wishlist, and then decided not to go to gungho as they were all ePubs or PDFs. Who knows if those wishlisted books will update to kindle versions down the road automaticall, or if I'll have to delete them are re-add kindle format versions where available.


According to Overdrive they'll be available for Kindle if they're available in Overdrive: "Your existing collection of downloadable eBooks will be available to Kindle customers. As you add new eBooks to your collection, those titles will also be available in Kindle format for lending to Kindle and Kindle reading apps. Your library will not need to purchase any additional units to have Kindle compatibility. This will work for your existing copies and units."
http://overdriveblogs.com/library/


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Meemo said:


> According to Overdrive they'll be available for Kindle if they're available in Overdrive: "Your existing collection of downloadable eBooks will be available to Kindle customers. As you add new eBooks to your collection, those titles will also be available in Kindle format for lending to Kindle and Kindle reading apps. Your library will not need to purchase any additional units to have Kindle compatibility. This will work for your existing copies and units."
> http://overdriveblogs.com/library/


Yep, but that doesn't mean they'll change to the Kindle version on our wishlists. For instance, there are some books my library has both the ePub and PDF ebooks of (as well as Audiobook downloads) and you can add them to your wishlist separately.

My guess is when overdrive does the update they'll just add Kindle versions to the library site for every title they own, but us users will have to add the Kindle versions to our wishlists and hold lists manually as they'll probably be new listings in the overdrive system.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

mooshie78 said:


> Yep, but that doesn't mean they'll change to the Kindle version on our wishlists. For instance, there are some books my library has both the ePub and PDF ebooks of (as well as Audiobook downloads) and you can add them to your wishlist separately.
> 
> My guess is when overdrive does the update they'll just add Kindle versions to the library site for every title they own, but us users will have to add the Kindle versions to our wishlists and hold lists manually as they'll probably be new listings in the overdrive system.


Maybe, but even then I'd rather look at my wish list for books I was interested in and go find the Kindle version than to go through the whole list again trying to remember. In fact I might do that for PDF books, because I've pretty much avoided putting those on my wish list, but now that I have the iPad I could try them again.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, my libraries selection stinks anyway.  The 1,100 or whatever estimate included audiobooks (I didn't notice at first glance) which are a big chunk of the total.

In any case, I'm not going to bother browsing through it all.  I've never been much of one for browsing library or book store collections anyway.  I only go when there's something specific I want.  So I'll just use library e-books the same way.  If there's something I want to read, I'll just do a quick search see if the library has it before buying it on Kindle.


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## TLM (Apr 8, 2010)

I mentioned to the librarian that Amazon was enabling library lending for the kindles.  Was a surprise to her.  But I was surprised to hear that my library now has Overdrive lending!  It didn't last fall.  I can download books to the computer or my droid to read until the Kindle is enabled.  Of course I need to find out my pass code


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

TLM said:


> I mentioned to the librarian that Amazon was enabling library lending for the kindles. Was a surprise to her. But I was surprised to hear that my library now has Overdrive lending! It didn't last fall. I can download books to the computer or my droid to read until the Kindle is enabled. Of course I need to find out my pass code


That's a good point. I should make sure that my local libraries know. They just started offering Overdrive last fall so I splurged on a refurb Nook so I could take advantage.


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## KindleMom (Dec 11, 2008)

Where we live, there is no library so we have to pay $80 a year to use the library that's 30 min away.  Ebooks would make that library  a lot more accessible.  Except that it has about 3,000 titles and most of those are audiobooks.  Can I join a library someplace else (maybe even in a different state), that would have more titles?  And if so, does anyone have a recommendation or know how I would research finding one?

Thanks!


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

KindleMom, here are two places to search for libraries that lend e-books:

http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries

http://search.overdrive.com/ (try "Search for a Library" there)

There's also Free Library of Philadelphia: http://libwww.freelibrary.org/register/getcard1.cfm. From their website:

_A Free Library card is available at no cost to anyone who lives, works, pays taxes, or goes to school in the City of Philadelphia. In addition, anyone who is 65 or older or who has a valid card with an Access PA sticker from another Pennsylvania library can obtain a Free Library card without charge. Veterans and members of the Armed Services can also obtain a Free Library card without charge.

Out-of-state residents can obtain a card by paying an annual fee of $35.00._

I hope that helps.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

The Fairfax County Library in Virginia also offers non-resident cards for $27/year. It's a good idea to check the Overdrive eBook collection of either Philadelphia or Fairfax County to make sure they have books that you're interested in.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/libcard.htm


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I'd expect the libraries that sell out of area accounts probably have even longer wait lists for popular books that local ones that don't do out of area accounts.  But maybe they buy more copies with the proceeds and help offset that.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

I read this story and loved it.  I am so glad that Kindle is making strides to reach out into libraries and expand the usefulness of eBooks.  I just hope the technology for this works.  I have heard about some libraries doing some experiments with Kindles and that the technology didn't quite work.  I wish I had the details...


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

balaspa said:


> I read this story and loved it. I am so glad that Kindle is making strides to reach out into libraries and expand the usefulness of eBooks. I just hope the technology for this works. I have heard about some libraries doing some experiments with Kindles and that the technology didn't quite work. I wish I had the details...


Well it didn't work because, as it stands, the Kindle and Overdrive (and other library ebook serivces) use different sorts of DRM. Even if they do use the same underlying format.

The thing is that Amazon is now working directly with Overdrive to make it work. And that's a good thing!


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

balaspa said:


> I read this story and loved it. I am so glad that Kindle is making strides to reach out into libraries and expand the usefulness of eBooks. I just hope the technology for this works. I have heard about some libraries doing some experiments with Kindles and that the technology didn't quite work. I wish I had the details...


Well no doubt that's why they haven't announced a release date yet - they'll want to make sure any kinks are pretty much worked out by the time they actually roll it out. (At least most of them - there are always gonna be some kind of kinks.)


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

http://technorati.com/business/article/amazon-kindle-books-hitting-the-library/


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