# BookYell.com - Guaranteed Kindle Profits! What's Your Experience? Who's tried it?



## BookYell.com (Sep 6, 2014)

Hey everyone!

My name's Ethan Gordon and I'm the product manager for www.BookYell.com. BookYell is the greatest way to reach new readers to promote your KDP Select Enrolled Kindle Book and even get a *guaranteed profit*.

You are buying a book listing in our newsletter, which is sent to our growing list of active subscribers. Our promise is simple: *we guarantee that your book, whether it's fiction or non-fiction, no matter the genre or niche, will receive at least 75 Kindle Unlimited borrows within 48 hours who read more than 10% of your book, meaning you will earn a guaranteed share of the KDP Select monthly global fund.* This makes us a unique and appealing service.


99% of Books Enrolled in KDP Select Will be Accepted!
Fiction & Non-Fiction Books on Any Subject are Welcome.
No Restrictions on Genre, Niche or Length of the Book!
New Releases are Welcome.
Borrow Ranges Vary from 80 to 350.
Guaranteed 75 Borrows or Your Money Back!

What Is Kindle Unlimited?
When you enroll your title in KDP Select, your title will be included in Kindle Unlimited (KU), a new subscription service for readers in the U.S. This is also a new opportunity to increase revenue for authors enrolled in KDP Select. Customers are able to read as many books as they want while subscribed to Kindle Unlimited. When those who have borrowed your book read more than 10% of it, you will earn a share of the KDP Select monthly global fund.

I look forward to seeing you on www.BookYell.com, and would love to hear your success stories using our service.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

I'll give it a run


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

MeganBryce said:


> How can you guarantee that 75 readers will read at least 10% in the first 48 hours? That seems awfully specific and reminds me of FreeBookService.com.
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,179247.0.html
> 
> And it worries me that you're selling a listing in your newsletter and I can't figure out how to sign up for that newsletter.


There is a FAQ that states the website is still being done and signups will start soon. Payment is through Paypal so I figured if they didn't come through after the two weeks as promised, I'd lodge a complaint and get the $$ back.

I found this http://www.domaintuno.com/d/bookyell.com, which shows them as Aussies and so I thought I'd give them a chance. Nothing ventured sort of thing.

Actually, I've just looked into their website and the physical address they give is for litigation lawyers in London, but their website is registered in Australia. This tells me to KEEP AWAY! There are very few legitimate reasons for giving a physical address on a different continent.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2014)

That there is no genre / niche targeted is pretty telling. Old man's guide to fishing trips gets 80 reads and bestseller romance gets 350? Come on.


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## BookYell.com (Sep 6, 2014)

Our website is now undergoing upgrades, that's why new subscribers currently cannot join our list and also there is no possibility to target genre/niche. Website with new features will be re-launched in the upcoming month and the acceptance of new subscriptions will resume.

However if you are an author you are more than welcome to order a promotion for your book, which will be sent to our current list of 5700+ US readers. We guarantee you will receive at least 75 borrows within 48 hours, by readers who read more than 10% of your book. Meaning you will earn a guaranteed share of the KDP Select monthly global fund.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

BookYell.com said:


> Our website is now undergoing upgrades, that's why new subscribers currently cannot join our list and also there is no possibility to target genre/niche. Website with new features will be re-launched in the upcoming month and the acceptance of new subscriptions will resume.
> 
> However if you are an author you are more than welcome to order a promotion for your book, which will be sent to our current list of 5700+ US readers. We guarantee you will receive at least 75 borrows within 48 hours, by readers who read more than 10% of your book. Meaning you will earn a guaranteed share of the KDP Select monthly global fund.


No offense, but listing a physical address in the United Kingdom when your website is registered in Australia is silly. Especially when you charge in Aussie dollars. If you are legitimate, you'll need to be a little more honest with your potential customers.

According to the internet, your website was first registered in July 2014, which raises a question of two, starting with how long have you been trading, and under which name did you gather the 5000+ subscribers?


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## BookYell.com (Sep 6, 2014)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> No offense, but listing a physical address in the United Kingdom when your website is registered in Australia is silly. Especially when you charge in Aussie dollars. If you are legitimate, you'll need to be a little more honest with your potential customers.
> 
> According to the internet, your website was first registered in July 2014, which raises a question of two, starting with how long have you been trading, and under which name did you gather the 5000+ subscribers?


Our servers are in the US and physical office is in the UK. We charge in US Dollars. No offense, but please make sure prior to the publication of such information and do not mislead members of the forum.

BookYell has been developed and subscribers collected as soon as Kindle Unlimited has been publicly presented.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

BookYell.com said:


> Our servers are in the US and physical office is in the UK. We charge in US Dollars. No offense, but please make sure prior to the publication of such information and do not mislead members of the forum.
> 
> BookYell has been developed and subscribers collected as soon as Kindle Unlimited has been publicly presented.


Um, no. I just got charged in AU dollars, which is why I did a little digging. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but a UK address coupled with a website first registered in Australia for a service only available in the USA was a little too suspect.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

The thing that stands out to me here is how can you guarantee that your subscriber list will like the books on offer enough to read them (or even read 10% of them)? There doesn't seem to be anything solid to this.

If schemes that guarantee KU reads start happening all over the place, then the KU program will surely collapse.

I'm not knocking your business plan, because websites that point readers to KU reads are probably a good thing right now, but you'd need something very convincing - something that tells authors that you have real readers who are interested in their genres are involved, and without any guarantees of 'read' numbers. 

At the moment, I can't see any authors taking this on.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm a reader. How do I sign up to be on your list?

Doesn't look like I can. You say that's a temporary condition. But it makes the whole thing sound questionable. You claim to have a list of 5700 US readers -- and yet, I've never heard of this service before and I, a fairly voracious reader, can't get in your program. Again, color me skeptical.

I'm not an author, but if I was I'd not jump on this particular bandwagon.  I agree that it sounds an awful lot like the "Free Book Service" which has been pretty thoroughly debunked as a legitimate promo site.  In fact, Amazon flat out said that folks who use the service may put their account and publishing privileges in jeopardy. So I'd suggest approaching with much caution.

For me, it's the 'we guarantee they'll read it' bit that smacks of something skeevy. I buy/download a LOT of books. I can't possibly guarantee I'll read each one to 10%. Which makes me suspect the guarantee is based on the service paying people to download and flip through books to past the 10% mark. Or some 'bot' system that does it somehow. Nothing on the site gives any explanation of how these 'reads' are obtained. 




Moderator note: There have already been reports -- please remember to keep any comments civil and on topic. Asking questions is good. Basic courtesy is required.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

No restrictions on book length, rating, reviews or genre?  Can you add and answer the following to your FAQ:

If I write a 500-page book of total gibberish, with a nonsensical book description and horrible cover, will you still guarantee that I will have 75 KU downloads that will be read to 10% of the book?


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## BookYell.com (Sep 6, 2014)

Philip Gibson said:


> No restrictions on book length, rating, reviews or genre? Can you add and answer the following to your FAQ:
> 
> If I write a 500-page book of total gibberish, with a nonsensical book description and horrible cover, will you still guarantee that I will have 75 KU downloads that will be read to 10% of the book?


If you write and publish total gibberish, it will almost certainly be eliminated from the Kindle Select program. Therefore, this is the Kindle Select, which basically makes the selection of books for us. However, we say that we only approve 99% of the books submitted and totally nonsense will not be accepted.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

BookYell.com said:


> If you write and publish total gibberish, it will almost certainly be eliminated from the Kindle Select program. Therefore, this is the Kindle Select, which basically makes the selection of books for us. However, we say that we only approve 99% of the books submitted and totally nonsense will not be accepted.


 The Select program is something publishers opt into, it is not a vetting system. If a book got enough customer complaints it might be removed, but otherwise anything and everything is up for sale. . . I think what people want to know is: Are you taking a risk by guaranteeing 75 reads? Do you have so many average downloads that you feel 75 is a good threshold for a guarantee or is it that you are making sure people are downloading by a. using dummy accounts, b. offering incentives or prizes in addition to the free book on download? If it's the first, please give us some real numbers, some average downloads per ad in each genre (because not all genres have the same reach in every list), number of subscribers interested in each genre or length, etc. If it's the second, most people aren't going to be interested because it means their Amazon publishing account would be at risk if they used your service.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Okay, it seems that the name/website registration stuff I got was old and the updated info pans out. I have no idea why Paypal billed me in $AU because I used my $US payoneer card as the source. They usually bill me in whatever the seller is charging so I've sent them an email to find out why and how. In the end, it doesn't matter where or how or even if you live, just so long as you can deliver on your promise and those readers are real. 

It may have been an error to do this sort of thing late at night, so I'll refrain from further comments until after a good night's sleep.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Caveat Emptor.


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

BookYell.com said:


> If you write and publish total gibberish, it will almost certainly be eliminated from the Kindle Select program. Therefore, this is the Kindle Select, which basically makes the selection of books for us. However, we say that we only approve 99% of the books submitted and totally nonsense will not be accepted.


My question is whether you (BookYell) understand what the KDP Select program is. Amazon's KDP Select does not "select" or otherwise evaluate any books. The authors choose whether or not to be in the Select program when they upload their books. If your book is in Select, all that means is that you agreed to sell it exclusively through Amazon for a 90-day period. Authors can opt out of Select after 90 days, or renew it, whichever they choose. If they want their books to be available for Kindle Unlimited borrowing, they have to sign up for the Select program.

Amazon doesn't care what is actually in the book. The book could be great literature, or it could be nonsense. And Amazon does not "eliminate" any book from Select, unless the author violates the Select program's Terms of Service by listing the book for sale elsewhere.

You can read about the KDP Select program here:
https://kdp.amazon.com/select


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Like Ann and others who have posted, I have concerns about the similarity between what this offers and the kind of results that were offered by FreeBookServices.com.  (Not saying there's a link between the two.)  Amazon determined that the services offered by FBS--a guaranteed number of downloads--were an artificial attempt to game the system and warned many of our members directly that use of the system put their publishing accounts on Amazon at risk.

I would recommend that people who are thinking of using this service check with KDP customer service (or whatever it is called) to verify that using it will not violate your ToS.  It may be fine; I don't know...but I think people should definitely use due diligence when considering any new service such as this.

Threads like this where the service provider can be asked tough but civil questions and where the provider can answer the questions are part of that due diligence.

Betsy
KBoards Mod


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

Seems to be a poor time to promote your service, when it is undergoing renovations and closed to readers...  why did you choose today to try and recruit authors?


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

Isn't it interesting how so many of these services can boost your reads and downloads when the cost is zero but can't do the same thing even for a 99 cent book? 

Frankly, I expected this to happen with Kindle Unlimited. The global fund combined with unlimited downloads should have companies like freebookservice.com coming out of the woodwork. Front $750 a month for KU subscriptions and then generate $1500/month or more from a bunch of authors by guaranteeing 75 reads a month. Get enough authors to buy in and that's a nice little business.

Scammy as hell, but a nice business.


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## J. B. Cantwell (Mar 26, 2014)

jakedfw said:


> Front $750 a month for KU subscriptions and then generate $1500/month or more from a bunch of authors by guaranteeing 75 reads a month. Get enough authors to buy in and that's a nice little business.
> 
> Scammy as hell, but a nice business.


Coffee just came out of my nose!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

My spidey sense is tingling as well. Perhaps the OP can explain why this post...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cxs9GxqjajwJ:https://kdp.amazon.com/community/thread.jspa%3FmessageID%3D776613+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

was edited by the user to be this post?

How/why did it change from a near copy of the OP here by the creator of the service to a testimonial by "satisfied customer"?

Is a little el stinky, no?

https://kdp.amazon.com/community/thread.jspa?messageID=776613


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

jakedfw said:


> Isn't it interesting how so many of these services can boost your reads and downloads when the cost is zero but can't do the same thing even for a 99 cent book?
> 
> Frankly, I expected this to happen with Kindle Unlimited. The global fund combined with unlimited downloads should have companies like freebookservice.com coming out of the woodwork. Front $750 a month for KU subscriptions and then generate $1500/month or more from a bunch of authors by guaranteeing 75 reads a month. Get enough authors to buy in and that's a nice little business.
> 
> Scammy as hell, but a nice business.


That's the only way I could see it working. Very dangerous for KU I would think. I wonder how/if Amazon can combat it. Seems like it would indeed be very easy to set up with sock puppet accounts.

Philip


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

Monique said:


> My spidey sense is tingling as well. Perhaps the OP can explain why this post...
> 
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cxs9GxqjajwJ:https://kdp.amazon.com/community/thread.jspa%3FmessageID%3D776613+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
> 
> ...


Very interesting! It looks a little el sockpuppety, yes?


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## Catherine Lea (Jul 16, 2013)

I signed up, but I should have waited until I had feedback. I've requested a refund. Watch this space.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

MyraScott said:


> Seems to be a poor time to promote your service, when it is undergoing renovations and closed to readers... why did you choose today to try and recruit authors?


This
As a reader who has purchased/downloaded over 1400 ebooks from Amazon alone, in many, many different categories, this is a service I could see me using. Why would you be searching for authors, but not more readers? Would I not be a good fit?


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## Amber Rose (Jul 25, 2014)

It would have taken scam artists and others  10 seconds to figure out how to game the KU system (once the first month's pay outs were announced), so we can be assured that it took Amazon no more than 5 of those seconds to figure out the same thing. 

My understanding is that Amazon can track the behaviour of each account, and especially a KU account, with great accuracy. So things like: 
- what incoming link is a reader clicking on
- how long did it take him to read 10%
- how much of the book (over and above the 10%) was read
- how consistent is this pattern
and, most importantly, 
-- how does it fit into the overall trend of KU users. 

I would expect Amazon to always be one step ahead of anyone trying to game the system. And with KU it is easy - they would just cancel the account. 

So when a new service like this one pops up, just sit back and wait. Amazon will make itself heard soon enough.


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## Miss Tarheel (Jul 18, 2014)

Anything that guarantees X amount for results is suspect in my opinion. It's one thing to state how many subscribers you have and the potential for reaching X amount or readers. But stating that you guarantee X amount of people will read my book just screams scam.


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## JohnHindmarsh (Jun 3, 2011)

BookYell.com said:


> Our servers are in the US and physical office is in the UK. We charge in US Dollars. No offense, but please make sure prior to the publication of such information and do not mislead members of the forum.
> 
> BookYell has been developed and subscribers collected as soon as Kindle Unlimited has been publicly presented.


According to a 'whois' search, all addresses are London, UK. The building is somewhat anonymous, in Cheapside. One whois said no IP address available and was critical at the lack of SEO data on the web pages - just sayin... The location of servers is entirely irrelevant. The lack of reader enrolment processes on the web site says it all. Caveat emptor.


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## Catherine Lea (Jul 16, 2013)

For anyone interested, I requested a refund, as I decided not to go ahead with the advertising and just got my money back. I'm not saying it isn't a scam but in my experience, scammers do not normally refund your money. Interesting. Maybe if they're legit, they need to address a few of the issues raised here.

All I can say is I'm grateful they honoured their agreement.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Catherine Lea said:


> For anyone interested, I requested a refund, as I decided not to go ahead with the advertising and just got my money back. I'm not saying it isn't a scam but in my experience, scammers do not normally refund your money. Interesting. Maybe if they're legit, they need to address a few of the issues raised here.
> 
> All I can say is I'm grateful they honoured their agreement.


i don't think anyone is claiming they are scammers in that they are trying to take your money and not provide what they say they are.
BUT.... what people are concerned about is the legitimacy of the sites "readers" and the fact that it is an amount at gaming the system. and that amazon frowns on stuff like that and has been known to take it out on the authors subscribing to such services.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Sigh. When it sounds to good to be true, it usually is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Well, we all anticipated this... Although we were expecting to see it on Fiverr first. Whatcha think? Comments please...


Hey everyone!

My name's Ethan Gordon and I'm the product manager for www.BookYell.com. BookYell is the greatest way to reach new readers to promote your KDP Select Enrolled Kindle Book and even get a *guaranteed profit.*

You are buying a book listing in our newsletter, which is sent to our growing list of active subscribers. Our promise is simple: we guarantee that your book, whether it's fiction or non-fiction, no matter the genre or niche, will receive at least *75 Kindle Unlimited borrows within 48 hours who read more than 10% of your book*, meaning you will earn a guaranteed share of the KDP Select monthly global fund. This makes us a unique and appealing service.

99% of Books Enrolled in KDP Select Will be Accepted!
Fiction & Non-Fiction Books on Any Subject are Welcome.
No Restrictions on Genre, Niche or Length of the Book!
New Releases are Welcome.
Borrow Ranges Vary from 80 to 350.
Guaranteed 75 Borrows or Your Money Back!

What Is Kindle Unlimited?
When you enroll your title in KDP Select, your title will be included in Kindle Unlimited (KU), a new subscription service for readers in the U.S. This is also a new opportunity to increase revenue for authors enrolled in KDP Select. Customers are able to read as many books as they want while subscribed to Kindle Unlimited. When those who have borrowed your book read more than 10% of it, you will earn a share of the KDP Select monthly global fund.

I look forward to seeing you on www.BookYell.com, and would love to hear your success stories using our service.


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## geekgrrl (Oct 14, 2013)

This right here: "How do I subscribe to your list?
New subscribers currently cannot join our list due to our website and mailing system now undergoing upgrades. The website will be re-launched in the upcoming month, and the acceptance of new subscriptions will resume. However if you are an author you are more than welcome to order a promotion for your book, which will be sent to our current list of 5700+ US readers."

Yeaaaahhhh. Um, this is a BIG red flag.


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,194191.0.html


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Yeah, I saw that too. Also, on the site, they predict the payout rate will not go under $1.81... Wow. Direct line to The 'Zon...


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

Fredster said:


> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,194191.0.html


Maybe the threads should be merged?


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Fredster said:


> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,194191.0.html


Oops... Missed that thread. I did do a search on BookYell before posting. Nothing came up.

Sorry! 

Betsy/Ann...can you delete thread (or merge)?


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## geekgrrl (Oct 14, 2013)

Here's the thing. It doesn't have to be a "scam". They may very well deliver what they offer, and have amazing customer service. But that doesn't mean it's not still hinky as hell, and very likely against Amazon's terms. Shades of FreeBookService.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Threads have been merged -- thanks to those who reported the duplication . . . . sorry for any confusion.


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## metalman123 (Sep 8, 2014)

Well that sucks. I was really hoping we had another great book promotion service!


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Saw this on another forum too. Asked where did the subscribers came from? No answer... So same question, where are subs coming from? How did they found the site. Seems like some kind of Bot or other automated solution to game Amazon which could get authors in trouble.. 

No transparency too, who's the person behind the site etc?


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## Breezin (Sep 7, 2014)

Hey guys,

I wanted to post my experience with this service as I have used it twice so far in the last 2 weeks or so.

My first book ( @2.99) sells a healthy 15 books a month so I submitted it to BookYell and got 104 downloads through KOLL. Calculating that @ $1.80 it yields me
about $187.20 - 49 =  $138.20  that is pretty good.

So I tried it again with another book selling at $1.29 that is also getting paltry sales each month. As of today (2 days later) it has 97 downloads. Figuring the math,
it gives me 174.60 - 49= 125.60  still a good return for the investment.

Total investment $98  total return $263.80 (after fee)

Remember that downloads only show in your KOLL downloads field once 10% of the book is read so you know that dough is coming to you.

So bottom line, this service works. And the site offers a guaranteed 75 downloads minimum which left me still with a very healthy profit. If this had not worked I would have said so on this board with no reservation.

Now you can make a better decision for yourself. Don't discount something just because someone says it won't work. Action proves the truth.

As the philosopher said, "To know and not to do, is not to know."


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Breezin said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I wanted to post my experience with this service as I have used it twice so far in the last 2 weeks or so.
> 
> ...


I have no doubt that it works, but if the readers aren't people, then it's all for nothing. You'll get a spike in sales, make $20- $30 (the price is $99 for the service once the promotion is over) and have a bunch of machine alsobots matched to your book.

The value in a service like this would be in raising your book up the charts and putting you in the also bought lists of *real readers*. A one off spike is useless, and don't forget that if enough people do this, the payout from Amazon will drop and the small profit at the end will shrink away. It is, after all, a fixed amount that gets paid out every month.


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

Breezin said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I wanted to post my experience with this service as I have used it twice so far in the last 2 weeks or so.
> 
> ...


We just saw this exact same post on another [shall remain unnamed] forum. IMO, that is a red flag, smells like advertising instead of an authentic testimonial. Another Kboards member posted screenshots (further back in this thread) showing that BookYell replaced their advertising post, the one they put here, with this new "testimonial" post.
Not saying that's what you're doing, but it does start to look a bit suspicious when a person makes the same testimonial-type post on multiple forums.

Of more concern is the fact that we have seen no readers, out of the alleged group of "5700+ U.S. readers," posting testimonials that they found good books to download through BookYell.


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## iheartwords (Jun 12, 2013)

Bluebonnet said:


> We just saw this exact same post on another [shall remain unnamed] forum. IMO, that is a red flag, smells like advertising instead of an authentic testimonial. Another Kboards member posted screenshots (further back in this thread) showing that BookYell replaced their advertising post, the one they put here, with this new "testimonial" post.
> Not saying that's what you're doing, but it does start to look a bit suspicious when a person makes the same testimonial-type post on multiple forums.
> 
> Of more concern is the fact that we have seen no readers, out of the alleged group of "5700+ U.S. readers," posting testimonials that they found good books to download through BookYell.


And the poster on the other forum is also "Breezin".


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

So is this what some suspect is going on?
Someone signed up for 75 KU accounts. Now they run a service and barrow (and read) everyone's book who signs up. 

They make money once they've covered their subscription cost? 

What evil masterminds!

Not saying that's what going on here, just looks suspicious.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Bluebonnet said:


> We just saw this exact same post on another [shall remain unnamed] forum. IMO, that is a red flag, smells like advertising instead of an authentic testimonial. Another Kboards member posted screenshots (further back in this thread) showing that BookYell replaced their advertising post, the one they put here, with this new "testimonial" post.
> Not saying that's what you're doing, but it does start to look a bit suspicious when a person makes the same testimonial-type post on multiple forums.
> 
> Of more concern is the fact that we have seen no readers, out of the alleged group of "5700+ U.S. readers," posting testimonials that they found good books to download through BookYell.


I just want to step in here to say that I'm not entirely sure (and I've told Monique this) what happened with the posts that Monique linked to; it's not clear to me that one post replaced another, though there's something off going on there. And there's no problem mentioning the KDP forum...just sayin'. It's another forum that we prefer people not mention.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## DTW (Apr 13, 2014)

The word for how newly created posters are so positive towards this service is _suspicious_. Anyone trusting the comments of someone who signed up less than 6 months ago singing the praises of something that's already so fraught with the appearance of a scam . . . deserves what they get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute


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## MikeDavidson (Oct 5, 2013)

MeganBryce said:


> How can you guarantee that 75 readers will read at least 10% in the first 48 hours? That seems awfully specific and reminds me of FreeBookService.com.
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,179247.0.html
> 
> And it worries me that you're selling a listing in your newsletter and I can't figure out how to sign up for that newsletter.


What is freebookservice.com? I've never heard of them. What do they do? Are they legit or are they a scam. I couldn't find much info on their website.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

MikeDavidson said:


> What is freebookservice.com? I've never heard of them. What do they do? Are they legit or are they a scam. I couldn't find much info on their website.


It's a company that has figured out a way to scam the KDP ranking system for free books. Pay them a chunk of cash and they'll make sure your book climbs the greasy pole. The nearest analogy I can think of are gold sellers in online games - for a fist full of dollars, they'll give you an advantage over your competitors.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

MikeDavidson said:


> What is freebookservice.com? I've never heard of them. What do they do? Are they legit or are they a scam. I couldn't find much info on their website.


The thread in the post you quoted should answer most of your questions.


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## MikeDavidson (Oct 5, 2013)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> It's a company that has figured out a way to scam the KDP ranking system for free books. Pay them a chunk of cash and they'll make sure your book climbs the greasy pole. The nearest analogy I can think of are gold sellers in online games - for a fist full of dollars, they'll give you an advantage over your competitors.


Seems to be a never ending line of scam artists out there.


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## STubbs (May 13, 2013)

I hate crap like this.  The tens of thousands of fake KU reads they must be generating for their clients is directly taking money out of all of our pockets.

Lame.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I have several books in KU right now and I would never try something like this. It seems exactly like free book service. It's exactly the kind of thing that will ruin it for everyone. So far KU has been really kind to me. I'd hate to see it screwed up by scams.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

All in all, I am very impressed with the ability of people on this board to sniff out a problem and ask some very poignant questions! I guess this guy didn't realize that a lot of us spend the better part of our lives thinking about murder, theft, scams, and a wide variety of other crimes people try to get away with...


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

MikeDavidson said:


> Seems to be a never ending line of scam artists out there.


They show up on Kboards regularly, since they know the Writers' Cafe is one of the largest writers' forums. I've only been reading here for a few months and have already seen several companies advertise shady ways to game the Amazon system. I'm sure some new company will be here making a sales pitch within 30 days or so.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Bluebonnet said:


> They show up on Kboards regularly, since they know the Writers' Cafe is one of the largest writers' forums. I've only been reading here for a few months and have already seen several companies advertise shady ways to game the Amazon system. I'm sure some new company will be here making a sales pitch within 30 days or so.


And yet -- we've got smart folks here who suss 'em out pretty quick. And then tell everyone they know what makes them suspicious. Seems like they'd be smarter to stay away from the denizens of the WC!


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

Ann in Arlington said:


> And yet -- we've got smart folks here who suss 'em out pretty quick. And then tell everyone they know what makes them suspicious. Seems like they'd be smarter to stay away from the denizens of the WC!


Every new guy thinks he's the one who can outsmart us.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Here's my reply from Amazon:

*Hello Mike,

I understand you'd like to advertise your book on bookyell.com.

You're free to promote and publish your book on any website as long as it is not enrolled in KDP Select.

However, if your title is enrolled in KDP Select you may offer a sample, excerpt or teaser of your KDP Select-enrolled book on other websites, as long as it doesn't include a substantial portion of your book's content. Up to about 10% of the book's content is a reasonable amount.

Please know that a sample of your book is also available on your Amazon.com detail page, and we recommend linking to your detail page from your other sites.

We strongly recommend you clearly indicate in the title of your sample that it is a sample, so that there won't be confusion regarding availability of your book on another sales channel.

I hope this helps. If you still need help, please feel free to get in touch with us. We look forward to assisting you.

Thanks for using Amazon KDP.*

Looks like they are not aware of bookyell.com--I'm not sure they even understood what I was really asking, as I didn't say anything about a sample of my book. Seems to be a canned response to any request to promote your book.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

What if these guys are semi legit. What if they have 100 or so KU accounts that they farm off to labor firms in another country - much like companies farm gold in online games. Chinese/Bulgarian/Russian gold farmers (average wage is approx $US 1/hr) can make a profit where those in developed countries can't. 

Assuming they're paying for 100 accounts that's $1000/month. Now, if they pay $25 of the $99 they charge to the developing country readers, that's $74 profit to them. Their break even point would be 1000/74 = 14 odd sales. At 100 authors per month, you're making a tidy 74x86= $6364 per month. Even at $49 it's pretty good (42 break even point, then $1392 if they get 100 clients).


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Amazon customer service is good . . . . but . . . . the first response is almost always canned. I'd guess no human even looks at it; a response is generated based on key words.

My suggestion: reply with 'no that didn't help me' and explain it again, more detail. Explain exactly what bookyell is promising, include links, and ask directly "If I were to pay them to do this for my book, would this be a violation of your publishing Terms of Service?"  That will likely get a human to look at it -- hopefully one who can answer your question.


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

Anyone tried Book Yell? How did it go?


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

You're aware of this thread, right?

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,194191.0.html


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi, Dee, 

I've merged your thread with the existing Book Yell thread.

Betsy


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

I tried it very early and they seem to have delivered BUT the 'customers also bought' are a bit screwed - my book is epic fantasy and there are books of cleaning tips and body language guides in there.

My biggest concern is that they could be a scam and Amazon won't honor the reads, but so far they seem to be acting honorably and delivering what they say they would. 

As others have said, buyer beware.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

If they are a scam (and I'm in that camp), the thing you, or any one who has or is thinking of using them, should be concerned about isn't that Amazon won't honor the reads, it's that they'll cancel *your* account.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Monique said:


> If they are a scam (and I'm in that camp), the thing you, or any one who has or is thinking of using them, should be concerned about isn't that Amazon won't honor the reads, it's that they'll cancel *your* account.


They won't be that draconian, surely. I made the order in good faith and was only alerted to possible shenanigans by a weird currency error that has subsequently been sorted out by Payoneer. Nor could I cancel the order through the credit card company because they actually delivered. Besides, another member contacted KDP about Bookyell and got a canned response.

There is also the possibility that these guys do have a mailing list, it's just not in the US. Bookyell is saying that there is a chance that some of their readers will leave reviews, which would rule out bots. So what if their readers are real, but based in China or Bulgaria? And what if they get paid per read on an account supplied to them by Bookyell? There are already numerous 'work from home' online schemes out there, and this could be one of them.


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## CDForness (Nov 25, 2013)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> They won't be that draconian, surely. I made the order in good faith and was only alerted to possible shenanigans by a weird currency error that has subsequently been sorted out by Payoneer. Nor could I cancel the order through the credit card company because they actually delivered. Besides, another member contacted KDP about Bookyell and got a canned response.
> 
> There is also the possibility that these guys do have a mailing list, it's just not in the US. Bookyell is saying that there is a chance that some of their readers will leave reviews, which would rule out bots. So what if their readers are real, but based in China or Bulgaria? And what if they get paid per read on an account supplied to them by Bookyell? There are already numerous 'work from home' online schemes out there, and this could be one of them.


 I believe amazon did threaten to close accounts if others continued to use freebookservice. FBS was able to operate for several months before they cracked down.

However this service actually pulls money out of amazon's pocket directly unlike FBS. I would guess amazon would be checking on this faster, if it spreads. And yes anyone who uses services like this will get garbage Also Boughts. Wondering if these guys operate on my fav internet marketing forum?


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## Nica Curt (Aug 18, 2014)

I don't know if they are a scam. But just looking at the registered information, it's a site that's less than a few months old. Registered on July 15, 2014. It's set to expire in one year. Their theme is optimizePressTheme, which seems like it's geared towards online marketing. It's a landing page.

This is all speculation. And I'm not going to discourage people from doing business with them, just be careful because it's new. Of course I would love for there to be good services to help writers out, but this seems questionable.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

I also sent Amazon an email about Bookyell and this is what I got in reply:



> Amazon and KDP are not affiliated with www.BookYell.com. While we always support legitimate efforts of our publishers to promote their books, we don't endorse the use of external services that attempt to manipulate our terms as this is not permitted.


So yeah, I don't think I'll be submitting any more orders with them.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I never heard back from my second request from Amazon, so I decided to be the guinea pig with them on a book that had basically zero sales (1-4 a month). I had 96 borrows, no sales, and no reviews (they said I should expect some reviews). My also boughts were not messed up (it's been almost a week). But no reviews, and no sales bump at all (which surprised me, as I expected at least a little/short one).

I've been speaking with other authors and I've gotten the results from two other books. One was 96 downloads and a two-star review. The other was 95 downloads and I forgot to ask about reviews. One said his also boughts were messed up (links with lots of non-fiction and how-to books). The other book's also broughts haven't changed. 

So, I got my monies worth, but a few strange things still worry me. I'm not running another ad until I get something more official from Amazon. I'm really surprised that all the sales were barrows, no real sales and that I didn't see any post ad sales bump at all.

Also, I shouldnote that I e-mailed them a couple times and they were always helpful.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

MJWare said:


> I never heard back from my second request from Amazon, so I decided to be the guinea pig with them on a book that had basically zero sales (1-4 a month). I had 96 borrows, no sales, and no reviews (they said I should expect some reviews). My also boughts were not messed up (it's been almost a week). But no reviews, and no sales bump at all (which surprised me, as I expected at least a little/short one).
> 
> I've been speaking with other authors and I've gotten the results from two other books. One was 96 downloads and a two-star review. The other was 95 downloads and I forgot to ask about reviews. One said his also boughts were messed up (links with lots of non-fiction and how-to books). The other book's also broughts haven't changed.
> 
> ...


Based on the OP, my understanding is that all this service was promising was paid borrows . . . . so d/l the book, advance to past 10% and return it.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Based on the OP, my understanding is that all this service was promising was paid borrows . . . . so d/l the book, advance to past 10% and return it.





David S. said:


> Why surprised? The entire game is to get a bunch of drones to download your book, click through 10%, and return it. None of them care about your book.


I didn't see anything on their website that said they get people to read 10% of your book and then return it. That would be (in my eyes) dishonest. I am a big believer in innocent until proven guilty.

However, the borrow numbers 95, 96, & 96, along with the other weirdness, gives me concern and I've decided not to use them again until we learn more. Not saying what they are doing it right or wrong--just that something doesn't add up and so I'd rather error on the side of caution.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

MJWare said:


> I didn't see anything on their website that said they get people to read 10% of your book and then return it. That would be (in my eyes) dishonest. I am a big believer in innocent until proven guilty.
> 
> However, the borrow numbers 95, 96, & 96, along with the other weirdness, gives me concern and I've decided not to use them again until we learn more. Not saying what they are doing it right or wrong--just that something doesn't add up and so I'd rather error on the side of caution.


They're promising 75 paid borrows . .. . . not that anyone will read the book or review it or anything else, just that it will be borrowed and read to at least 10% so that the Zon has to pay.

Totally skeevy to me. . . . .


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I just want to make sure, I'm clear that I'm not disagreeing with anyone who has concerns about them.


Ann in Arlington said:


> They're promising 75 paid borrows . .. . . not that anyone will read the book or review it or anything else, just that it will be borrowed and read to at least 10% so that the Zon has to pay.
> 
> Totally skeevy to me. . . . .


And I'm totally not disagreeing--nor did I mean to call you or any of the other poster out--I think this conversion is exactly what needs to happen.

Honestly, I wanted to post these numbers so other authors could use them to help decide for themselves.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I stopped having any interest in this service after the "75 guaranteed borrows" thing. No way they can absolutely say that out of less than 6000 subscribers that can be a sure thing.

Let's do the math, shall we? Use round numbers. Because they're round, I'm round, the world is round. Where was I? Oh, yeah.

Say they have 5,000 subscribers. One thousand writers sign up, one book each. Multiply that by 75.

1,000 x 75 = 75,000

Okay. That looks good, right? Now, divide that by 5,000.

75,000 / 5,000 = 15

Ack, dang math. I left off a couple of zeroes. I knew it didn't look right, so I went back to the trusty calculator and redid my figgerin'. It's not even whale math, and I can't keep up. Yikes.

Still, it seems fishy. They're basically saying that on average, every one of their subscribers (and yes, I rounded the number down, as explained above) will download and read 15 books to the 10% mark. Even at 5,700 subscribers, that's 13 books each.

What's the timing on this? How long will it take these readers to go through that many books? I'm a voracious reader, two to five books a week, and the only way I see any of this happening is if they only go to the 10% point, drop the book and go on to the next. If that's so, how long before Amazon catches on, and sends nasty letters out? How many of you are willing to risk your accounts to gain a few borrows?

Geeze. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> Still, it seems fishy. They're basically saying that on average, every one of their subscribers (and yes, I rounded the number down, as explained above) will download and read 15 books to the 10% mark. Even at 5,700 subscribers, that's 13 books each.


Even worse: all they're really saying that at least 75 people will download and page forward past 10%. There's zero guarantee anyone is reading anything. There's no way for a voracious reader (like say, me) to sign up.

No, it's pretty clear they either are paying people to download and page through or there are bots they've set up somehow.

I stand by my original assessment: totally skeevy.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Yep, I totally agree with you, Ann. Skeevy. I did say my belief that they had to simply be paging to the 10% point and moving on. It's the only way it could reasonably work. Shades of freebookservice.com, Batman!

Me, I'd rather have a few real people read it, whether they liked it or not, than some gamed download. But, I'm funny that way.


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

I can understand why you don't like BookYell. 

I don't understand how freebookservice (not approved of) differs from the highly rated BookBub. Aren't they both charging a lot of money to publicise a free book? What is the difference that makes one good and the other bad?

I have used neither and am new to this. I don't understand what the difference is and would love to be more informed about it. 
Thanks.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Bookbub does not guarantee downloads.

Bookbub has a professionally-designed website that is geared towards readers signing up. Bookbub makes most of its money through affiliate sales. From the site, it is clear that Bookbub is a service to readers, not to authors. The first thing you'll see is where to sign up as reader to receive the listings. On the a site (and many similar sites) you'll have to look a bit more closely to find the "advertise your book" links.


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> Bookbub does not guarantee downloads.
> 
> Bookbub has a professionally-designed website that is geared towards readers signing up. Bookbub makes most of its money through affiliate sales. From the site, it is clear that Bookbub is a service to readers, not to authors. The first thing you'll see is where to sign up as reader to receive the listings. On the a site (and many similar sites) you'll have to look a bit more closely to find the "advertise your book" links.


Thank you, Patty.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ryn Shell said:


> I can understand why you don't like BookYell.
> 
> I don't understand how freebookservice (not approved of) differs from the highly rated BookBub. Aren't they both charging a lot of money to publicise a free book? What is the difference that makes one good and the other bad?
> 
> ...


This is what an Amazon/KDP rep advised a member here (posted in the freebookservice.com discussion thread):



> Hello,
> 
> While we support the legitimate promotional efforts of our publishers, we have determined that www.FreeBookService.com's services manipulate Kindle sales rank. We take activities that jeopardize the experience of our customers and our publishers very seriously and may take action against publisher accounts that engage in sales rank manipulation.
> 
> ...


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> This is what an Amazon/KDP rep advised a member here (posted in the freebookservice.com discussion thread):


Thank you Betsy. You are online at all hours, Do you sleep?


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2014)

The Bookyell website consists of *ONE page* - with a PayPal link asking authors for $49. If that isn't a big enough warning for you, what more do you need?

There is no where to sign up as a reader. There is no where to browse past newsletters they supposedly send out. No where do they give a break down of the genres their readers like. There is no where to see click through rates.

To top it off their two author testimonials look highly suspect and for one I can't find a single book on Amazon.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Apologies for resurrecting this on my first post on the boards, but I found the forums when doing some checks on BookYell.com (won't be my final post, I promise; this place looks really cool).

I assume no one here has used BookYell? My thoughts on hearing "guaranteed" reads was "scam" and here, Goodreads, authorwrite, all seem to concur. Even if they deliver the money, it's having little long-term benefit and may damage the relationship with Amazon. 

My book isn't out for at least 5 weeks, but I'm gathering promo material now. 

(and they are STILL not taking new reader subscribers)


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## Becca Fanning (May 17, 2014)

ADDavies said:


> I assume no one here has used BookYell? My thoughts on hearing "guaranteed" reads was "scam" and here, Goodreads, authorwrite, all seem to concur. Even if they deliver the money, it's having little long-term benefit and may damage the relationship with Amazon.
> 
> My book isn't out for at least 5 weeks, but I'm gathering promo material now.
> 
> (and they are STILL not taking new reader subscribers)


There is no subscriber list, there are no readers. It's a computer macro that flips pages in Kindle Reader across 75 Kindle Unlimited accounts. It's an obvious violation of Amazon's TOS and anyone using it is probably risking a permanent KDP ban.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ryn Shell said:


> Thank you Betsy. Do you sleep?


No. I'm always here. . But I was in England when I last posted in the thread. 

Betsy


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Becca Fanning said:


> There is no subscriber list, there are no readers. It's a computer macro that flips pages in Kindle Reader across 75 Kindle Unlimited accounts. It's an obvious violation of Amazon's TOS and anyone using it is probably risking a permanent KDP ban.


Excellent. My gut is in fine working order then. Shame. Just once I'd like one of those "too good to be true" moments to prove, er, true.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

These offerings destroy your also bought lists which in turn poisons the organic growth of your book in Amazon's algorithms.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

SBJones said:


> These offerings destroy your also bought lists which in turn poisons the organic growth of your book in Amazon's algorithms.


When I tested this service it *did not* destroy, or even change, my also broughts. The same with one of the two other authors I spoke to (the third one said it *did* mess them up). I'm not sure why that is, but I do not believe we can say that this service will mess up your also bought--we can say that it might.

Not defending bookyell, I just care about getting the facts straight. If anyone has used this service and wants to remain anonymous, you can PM me and I'll post your results without using your name, book tittle, etc.


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