# Sharing Kindle books



## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

With regular books we can pass them off to someone else when we're done. Wouldn't it be great if we could do that with Kindle too? Understandably, giving a book away would remove it from your Kindle device and take it out of your archives - but it would be a good option if we were allowed to "give away" or trade books just like we do with DTBs. Think that would ever be possible? I could see there being a limit on how many times a book was passed on, just like a regular book eventually gets worn and ragged and might need replacing. I suppose something like this isn't probable, but is it something that _could_ be done? Or would all our modern technology just not work for that sort of thing?


----------



## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

It COULD be done...but publishers will never allow it. Too bad too, it's a good idea.


----------



## Jasonmh (May 7, 2009)

Laurie said:


> ... I suppose something like this isn't probable, but is it something that _could_ be done? Or would all our modern technology just not work for that sort of thing?


It could easily be done. The hard part would be convincing publishers (and maybe amazon) to agree to it.


----------



## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

I like the idea,however, I don't think Amazon would be a fan of it.

There probably wouldn't be as many purchases of books if we could all pass them around amongst ourselves for free.


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

I think it's more likely that we'll eventually see more of a subscription or rental model.  It would be too big of a pain to keep track of who has a copy of what.  I think it would be much easier just to let you download a book with an expiration date (which has already been done), or self-destructing books that delete themselves when you're done.


----------



## Xopher (May 14, 2009)

The subscription/rental method is something that libraries are working with. Through the library, ebooks expire after a certain date. I would think there would be a way to re-check out an ebook for a new expiration date, but I haven't used the library to try this. 

At the moment, the few libraries who are distributing ebooks don't distribute Kindle format. I was thinking I saw that ePub was the most common library format (they pretty much use one of two services who provide the ebooks).

I think it would be great to see Amazon come on board with libraries.


----------



## loriltx (Jul 17, 2009)

Here is a good explanation about the "sharing" issue by R. Layne on the amazon kindle discussions board in connection with sharing.

_There is a long tradition of sharing paper books. But what is lending and what is distributing? (I am writing this as a discussion and not necessarily trying to correct anyone. I write software (a copyrightable product) and have a little understanding of copyright law but I am not a lawyer. So if I have missed the mark here I would like to learn what is correct.)

Lending: We lend many things that are copyright protected. We can lend books, tapes, DVDs, etc. These items have the copyrighted material bonded to a transportable medium. The story of a book is stained onto its paper using ink. The music is converted to magnetic fields and then impressed onto magnetic tape. Movies are converted to a stream of "1s" and "0s" and then burned into the substrate of the disk. When legally lending any of these copyrighted materials, the purchased copy AND the transportable medium are given together. This ensures that the one licensed copy is transfered from the first owner to the next. The license if forfeited to the new owner.

Distribution: If we change the above example such that the book is photocopied page for page and then given to a friend, the music was copied to another tape or burned onto a CD, or the DVD movie was ripped and burned to another disk and then the copy is given to a friend we have now broken copyright (unless we have special permission). Now there are two copies of the copyrighted materials.

When you buy a book, the only thing YOU truly own is the paper and the legal permission to READ the story as often as you want. You do not own the story. When you buy music the only thing YOU truly own is the tape and the legal permission to LISTEN to the music as much as you want. You do not own the music. When you buy a DVD the only thing YOU truly own is the disk and the legal permission to WATCH the movie as much as you want. You do not own the movie.

For some reason digital books are not bound to any kind of transport medium. If it was possible to lend/give the digital book file and not give a copy of it AND there was a way to ensure there was no illegal copying, then that would be analogous to lending a paper book. It seems simple to allow someone to give their "license" to someone else, but to do this digitally with being bound to a transportable medium someone would need to track ownership to ensure people are not cheating the system and prove legal compliance. Then who would do that? And how much would the oversight add to the cost?_


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

That is well-expressed.  I agree that most people don't seem to understand that they may own a physical book, but not the words within it.  There are still restrictions on how you can use DTBs and other physical media.  For example, you can't read a book written by someone else as a public performance.


----------



## davebaxter (Jul 24, 2009)

As a Kindle pub, here's a question I have for you guys interested in "sharing" an e-book:

Publishers can give away a free-floating azw file of their Kindle products and share them with readers, basically release a few and have them passed around, each file able to be uploaded to any Kindle device.  This could be used as a sort of forced "Free" product, say the first book in a series.  Amazon won't let us make our books free officially on the marketplace (we can't choose to, but they can), but we CAN offer up the file as a "share".

Getting the word out about Kindle books is tough, and most folks find what they're looking for by either browsing on Amazon or word of mouth.  In the former, having a free floating "share" file won't hurt sales (they won't have any way of knowing about it).  In the latter, it can only help!  So...should we do it?

Hmmmmm.....

--Dave B.


----------



## L.Canton (Jan 21, 2009)

I think it's an interesting idea, but a lot of thought would need to be put into it so as to make it fair for all parties involved.


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

davebaxter said:


> As a Kindle pub, here's a question I have for you guys interested in "sharing" an e-book:
> 
> Publishers can give away a free-floating azw file of their Kindle products and share them with readers, basically release a few and have them passed around, each file able to be uploaded to any Kindle device. This could be used as a sort of forced "Free" product, say the first book in a series. Amazon won't let us make our books free officially on the marketplace (we can't choose to, but they can), but we CAN offer up the file as a "share".
> 
> ...


You can always give away Mobipocket files (which can be read natively by Kindle). There are even some sites, like feedbooks.com, that will let you upload them. There are even more sites where you can give away books in PDF form. Lots of authors have been very successful giving away their work outside of amazon.


----------



## davebaxter (Jul 24, 2009)

marianner said:


> You can always give away Mobipocket files (which can be read natively by Kindle). There are even some sites, like feedbooks.com, that will let you upload them. There are even more sites where you can give away books in PDF form. Lots of authors have been very successful giving away their work outside of amazon.


True. I was wondering if it made any difference to Kindle users if they could get an Amazon style azw file vs. any other type of supported but "other" ebook type. Though, hell, a mobi version would likely look BETTER than an azw, even on the Kindle 

Still, I'm thinking sincerely about trying out the occassional azw freebie alongside all the other venues/formats. It never hurts to include that one more file type for those who want it or find it first over any other.


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

davebaxter said:


> True. I was wondering if it made any difference to Kindle users if they could get an Amazon style azw file vs. any other type of supported but "other" ebook type. Though, hell, a mobi version would likely look BETTER than an azw, even on the Kindle
> 
> Still, I'm thinking sincerely about trying out the occassional azw freebie alongside all the other venues/formats. It never hurts to include that one more file type for those who want it or find it first over any other.


The .azw format is pretty much just Mobipocket with a new extension. If you have a non-DRM'd .azw file you can change the extension to .prc and read it with Mobipocket Reader. I'm betting that you could probably do this in reverse, too  Or, you could just call the mobi file the "Kindle version."


----------



## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

When it comes to comics, it might be really advantageous to provide a "free" sample, even if it's only a few pages. I love graphic novels, but I've been skeptical of how well they'd translate to the small K2 screen (with its 16 shades...)


----------



## davebaxter (Jul 24, 2009)

akjak said:


> When it comes to comics, it might be really advantageous to provide a "free" sample, even if it's only a few pages. I love graphic novels, but I've been skeptical of how well they'd translate to the small K2 screen (with its 16 shades...)


Truer words... - the good news is that Amazon automatically offers you the ability to download a "sample", which is translated as whatever the first "chapter" of the book's Table of Contents is, the sample ending when the "Second Chapter" begins. We're putting up, currently, the first 10 pages of our comics as a free sample. I suppose we could fudge the ToC of the first issues to have the whole thing be a "Chapter One" and then the sample would give the free first issue! 

But generally, we'd like to offer said first issue for free a little more officially than that, to help readers try it out and see if they like. While there's plenty of round-about ways to achieve this, I'd prefer to simply offer up the whole file, both on these boards and through the other ebook sites. And definitely plan to! Will reply here again when there's more to offer and we've figured out in full this multi-ebook formatting stuff. --Dave B.


----------



## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

Yeah, I had a fog moment and forgot about the samples...


----------



## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

They don't block books being sold to libraries, and there is a robust used book market. The idea in the OP isn't substantially different than either of those


----------



## davebaxter (Jul 24, 2009)

Rasputina said:


> They don't block books being sold to libraries, and there is a robust used book market. The idea in the OP isn't substantially different than either of those


The issue in this comparison, though, is that there's a limited number of physical books being sold as used or to libraries. In the digital world, a free file can be downloaded/copied infinitely, thereby (potentially) completely nixing the point and purpose of new/paid-for copies. A physical book, if passed on, moves AWAY from one reader to another, and can't be passed on again until the current reader is finished. If the book is lost, it needs to be replaced with another physical copy that has to come from somewhere (re-purchased by the library, or another used book that was once-upon-a-time purchased by somebody).

A digital file can be passed on with no loss, and it creates MORE copies. That's vastly different and changes the whole game insofar as a "used" market is concerned. In digital, nothing is used. It's always a "new" file being given. --Dave B.


----------



## kindlevixen (Jan 13, 2009)

I think it would be neat if there was an "email to" function on the kindle.  When I am done reading something I am probably not going to read it again.  It would be awesome to be able to email that book from my kindle to a friends kindle email address... and then somewhere built into that function it would delete the file from my kindle/amazon account.


----------



## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

davebaxter said:


> The issue in this comparison, though, is that there's a limited number of physical books being sold as used or to libraries. In the digital world, a free file can be downloaded/copied infinitely, thereby (potentially) completely nixing the point and purpose of new/paid-for copies. A physical book, if passed on, moves AWAY from one reader to another, and can't be passed on again until the current reader is finished. If the book is lost, it needs to be replaced with another physical copy that has to come from somewhere (re-purchased by the library, or another used book that was once-upon-a-time purchased by somebody).
> 
> A digital file can be passed on with no loss, and it creates MORE copies. That's vastly different and changes the whole game insofar as a "used" market is concerned. In digital, nothing is used. It's always a "new" file being given. --Dave B.


no, the OP is talking about the ability to pass on her book to someone else. Not make unlimited copies. It's the same thing as loaning a hard copy book. There is only 1 copy and I'm letting my friend use it. Just as posted above


----------



## Laurie (Jan 9, 2009)

patchymama said:


> I think it would be neat if there was an "email to" function on the kindle. When I am done reading something I am probably not going to read it again. It would be awesome to be able to email that book from my kindle to a friends kindle email address... and then somewhere built into that function it would delete the file from my kindle/amazon account.


That's exactly what I was thinking! Just like a regular book - you give it away and you don't have it anymore.


----------



## Guest (Jul 31, 2009)

Laurie said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking! Just like a regular book - you give it away and you don't have it anymore.


Except there is nothing, absolutely NOTHING, to stop you from backing up your book on your computer first and then "loaning it" to your friend, thus still having the original file while sharing it with someone else. The absolute only way this could be done was if each file came with a code, a legal "virus" if you will, that would automatically DELETE your file from the Kindle if a copy is sent elsewhere. And I don't think anyone is interested in that.


----------



## davebaxter (Jul 24, 2009)

Yeah, the biggest hurdle with the entire "digital copy treated like a physical copy" concept is that we're no longer living in a world where major corporations have techies with terribly superior coding skills than "amateur" everyday tech-savvy joes.  Which means there is virtually zero chance of them developing even something as aggressive as a virus that'll remain unhacked for more than a few months.  Sure, it's possible to come up with something that will enforce the practice of "sharing", but it won't last.  Because the whole world, in a sense, is now computer and code literate, and that means there's nothing to stop folks from mucking with the system if they feel like doing so.  And in a world of billions, there's ALWAYS someone who feels like doing so.

So the reality will have to allow the potential of uncontrolled, unlimited copies being made.  That said, there's nothing stopping anyone from reformatting an azw file, even with DRM (they can hack it), and doing the same.  Basically, we already have unlimited access, if you look for how to manage it.  So what would be the difference in offering something for free vs. paid?  Nothing but reader relations.

I suspect it may be folly to forever try to shoehorn the physical model into the digital model.  It's a different model in need of different ideas.  The rest may prove an exercise in sheer frustration.

--Dave B.


----------



## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

Then why even bother with DRM? Seriously. All of this, of it can't be done or it's not worth it, well get rid of DRM then.


----------



## davebaxter (Jul 24, 2009)

Rasputina said:


> Then why even bother with DRM? Seriously. All of this, of it can't be done or it's not worth it, well get rid of DRM then.


Don't think you'll get any dissent on THAT front 

DRM is used because SOME folks won't work around it. But yeah, it's by-and-large unnecessary and a pain.


----------

