# My (not wonderful) experience with Book Rooster



## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

I've hesitated about posting this, but I've decided to let my fellow writers know about my experience with Book Rooster.

I learned about the book review service through Kindle Nation about a month ago. They were offering a special: $39.99 (the usual price is $49.99). For that money, Book Rooster offers free copies of a writer's book (which the writer provides) to readers, who are interested in that genre, and the book will receive at least ten reviews. I decided to give the service a try.

This is what they post for potential clients on their website:
*Reviewers sign up to receive review copies of novels in their favorite genres. BookRooster.com reviewers are expected to review a reasonable proportion of the books they receive, and we read every review they submit to keep an eye on review quality and objectivity.*

*What they didn't tell me*: *Book Rooster doesn't look at the reviews before they're posted, and there is no rating system. If a writer gets an unfair review, Book Rooster won't contact the review it to have the review removed.*

*Quoting Book Rooster:* We do not preview reviews. We read the reviews after they have been posted to Amazon and reviewers who do not adhere to our guidelines are not given review copies of books in the future.  -- so, if a book gets an unfair review, the writer is on his own. Book Rooster takes no responsibility.

My book received a subjective one-star review from someone who, apparently, is unfamiliar with short story collections. The reviewer complained that the stories were too short (I list the word count) and not sequential (they're stand-alone short stories, not linked). I contacted Book Rooster, and *they agreed the review was unfair, but they refused to contact the reviewer.* They told me I should post a comment--something I didn't want to do-- or contact Amazon. I contacted Amazon, but the review didn't break their guidelines, so they didn't remove it.

I then asked Book Rooster if they have a rating system or review guidelines. This is what they sent me:

1.	Share details about what you liked and/or didn't like about the book and, more importantly, why.
2.	If you must share a spoiler (crucial plot element) please warn your readers with the words "Spoiler Alert" in the title of your review. It's better to avoid spoilers altogether.
3.	A good review should be at least 100 words long.
4.	Steer clear of profanity, obscenity and distasteful remarks in your review.
5.	Avoid long quotations from the book and from others' reviews of the book.
6.	Always disclose that you received a complimentary copy of the book in exchange for your review. This is an Amazon requirement and doing so will help ensure that you continue to receive review copies in the future.

So...no rating system. They put your book out there, and any of their reviewers can read it for free and write whatever they want.

I wrote to Book Rooster again, several days ago, asking if they plan to create some kind of rating system--but they haven't responded. This is what I wrote;

So, no guidelines about how to judge a book and rate it. I think that's the problem, which contributed to an unfair and subjective review of my collection of short stories. The reviewer seemed to have no real understanding of the genre and gave a one-star review based on personal bias. You might want to consider developing your guidelines to include a rating guidelines, as other reviewers do. Especially since you're requesting quite a bit of money from writers for this service.

Right now the service you offer is hit or miss, and if a writer is unlucky with the assigned reviewers, the service can, potentially, be extremely damaging to sales. Some readers only look at ratings. I would tell other writers, that for $50 and any number of FREE copies of their books, they will receive at least ten unprofessional, and potentially biased and subjective reviews. Of one thing they can be certain: the reviews will follow Amazon guidelines, and, consequently, neither Amazon or Bookrooster will remove an unfair review.

Do you agree that sums it up?

***
As I said, no answer.

*Note: This has been my experience. Perhaps you've had a better one? I think there is room for a review service that offers objective reviews and has rating guidelines. I want to reiterate: I did not complain because my stories received a one-star review, but because the review was so subjective. To some degree, all reviews are subjective, but, in my opinion, a service that charges a fair amount of money should be less biased and attempt to be a bit professional.*


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## Al Schneider (Feb 14, 2011)

Soooo... They charge authors 67 bucks to give away copies of their _own _books to get reviews from people they don't know and have no real control over the results?!?!?! Heck, send me 10 bucks and I'll post your books on warez sites and ask for reviews.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

They normally charge $49.99, but they were offering a special--I think they just launched the business. But they've got quite a few kinks to work out. My dumb, for trusting them. Just wanted to let others know.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi Suzanne,

Thanks for sharing your experience!

I signed up for Book Rooster based on a KND blast I saw, as well as this very supportive interview on J.A.Konrath's blog http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/06/interview-with-catherine-macdonald-from.html

When I read your experience though, it reminded me all over again of my LibraryThing experience, where people are signing up for a giveaway without really reading the product description, which clearly indicates the style and format for the book (_I put the product description in the giveaway, but it was underneath the giveaway details, not to mention that my giveaway was amongst a sea of others on the screen, so who knows how much they read before requesting a free book_). Then of course, in one of my LT reviews, I was slammed for having a short essay style that made the reader want to only read a bit at a time and then go off and do other things, vs. compelling her to read it addictively in one shot (_when HELLO, it's an essay style coffee table kind of book, divided up into different linkable sections, as explained the PRODUCT DESCRIPTION!!_)

I don't know if this would be an issue with a book that has a very traditional format, like a traditional thriller that's broken up into traditional chapters, but you're now another person besides myself that's been burned for format via a giveaway, when the reviewer never had to read the product description, and get a clue of the format up front.

At this point now, with sales going okay, a KND ad scheduled in late August, 10 reviews and a decent rating, I just don't think it's worth the risk of giving away more books, having no idea what the "asked to review" readers will say (_and based on the Book Rooster procedure, it seems that reviewers are sent books based on the genre they like, but are never forced to read the Amazon product description, which would tell them a lot about what they're in for...unless I'm wrong? Maybe Book Rooster could clarify?_). I would feel more comfortable getting reviews from people who bought my book and had to actually visit the product description page.

In any case, I received an email a couple of weeks ago that my book would start being distributed to reviewers later in July, but...I just sent Book Rooster an email to cancel the whole thing and give me my money back. 

They'll probably tell me to go eff myself, but it's worth a try 

Thanks again for sharing!


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

For the sake of discussion, it looks like this is the review. So far _Dating My Vibrator_ has received three 4-star reviews from bookrooster, one 3-star review, and one 1-star review.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your frustrations!


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2011)

Romi said:


> They'll probably tell me to go eff myself, but it's worth a try


They'd better not! About LibraryThing, I gave away a bunch of copies there when I first started, and it didn't work out all that well for a variety of reasons. I stand by giveaways as a good strategy for people getting started (or anyone really), but there is a risk that those the story doesn't jive with will come back to bite you.

As for Book Rooster, I have no idea why these relatively high-profile people think it's a good idea. There are plenty of ways to find reviewers without dropping $50.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

I agree wholeheartedly that if someone is going to charge money for a service, the recipient should be confident that the service is fair and consistent. If I used a general contractor to have work done on my house, they'd subcontract the plumbing, electrical, painting, carpeting, and so on. If I'm unsatisfied with the way the carpet was laid, I'd call the contractor and expect them to set things right. They might tell me that the carpet was laid according to code, but if it has a wrinkle that I trip over, that's a problem, code or not. 

In this case, there's no code. No standard by which to measure whether the job was done satisfactorily. THAT is a problem. If the code doesn't exist, then the contractor has the obligation to ensure the job is done to his own standards of quality in order to keep customers happy. One unhappy customer can turn away lots of potential business. If the contractor has no minimum standard of quality? Steer clear.

Thanks for posting, Suzanne. I'm sorry you had to be the one to find this out for the rest of us who may have considered using the service.


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi Suzanne.  My experience with the type of reviews from Bookrooster has been similar.  I made the mistake of signing up for two books, and fear when the reviews for the second one hit that my sales will plummet as they have done on the first book.  I had thought that the reviewers would be familiar with the genre in which they are reviewing, but that doesn't appear to be the case based on my experience.

I'm sorry you've had such a negative experience.

Glad you posted about it here so that other authors can be warned they may want to avoid using this service.  I won't be using Bookrooster again.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

foreverjuly said:


> As for Book Rooster, I have no idea why these relatively high-profile people think it's a good idea. There are plenty of ways to find reviewers without dropping $50.


I agree. In hindsight, I would've rather used that $40 (_Book Rooster was on sale the day I bought it_), to post another KB banner ad here; I sold 10x more books than I normally do the day of my KB banner ad, because those people visited my Amazon page and wanted to buy it. And I like that


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks, Romi, I hadn't seen that post. I just posted my response, and I emailed Joe--letting him know my experience.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2011)

Romi said:


> I agree. In hindsight, I would've rather used that $40 (_Book Rooster was on sale the day I bought it_), to post another KB banner ad here; I sold 10x more books than I normally do the day of my KB banner ad, because those people visited my Amazon page and wanted to buy it. And I like that


Really? ? ? ? ? ? I've heard story after story of people getting banner ads and then not seeing a single sale all day. There are a staggering number of ways authors can waste their money. In fact, outside of putting a book together, there are really only a very few worthwhile reasons to crack open your wallet.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

You're right, Jason, in hind sight it was a bad move. I'd just received several nasty one-star reviews (one, I believe, from a guy I dated), and I'd hoped to generate some objective reviews through Book Rooster.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

KathyCarmichael said:


> Hi Suzanne. My experience with the type of reviews from Bookrooster has been similar. I made the mistake of signing up for two books, and fear when the reviews for the second one hit that my sales will plummet as they have done on the first book. I had thought that the reviewers would be familiar with the genre in which they are reviewing, but that doesn't appear to be the case based on my experience.
> 
> I'm sorry you've had such a negative experience.
> 
> Glad you posted about it here so that other authors can be warned they may want to avoid using this service. I won't be using Bookrooster again.


I had to check out your BR reviews on Angel Be Good. It looks like you got almost all 3-star and 4-star reviews from them. I'm surprised that killed your sales.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

Kathy, did you sign up for 10 or 20 reviews with BR on _Angel Be Good_? You have more than ten that say they received complimentary copies, but I don't know if those are all from Bookrooster.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2011)

kcmay said:


> No standard by which to measure whether the job was done satisfactorily.


If it were me, I'd have a really hard time coming to the conclusion that the job was done satisfactorily if I didn't get great reviews. The psychology of it is that you are paying for reviews, even if what you're really paying for is a service to find potential reviewers. So I can't really blame anybody if mediocre reviews are tinging the way people view the service when they may be getting exactly what they signed up for.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Yes, Moses, so far I've received five reviews. Most of them good, one other by a person who doesn't understand the short story genre. 

To reclarify: my issue isn't that I received a one-star review, but that Book Rooster has no rating system, they don't preview the reviews, and if a book receives a subjective, unfair review, they won't do anything to help.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> If it were me, I'd have a really hard time coming to the conclusion that the job was done satisfactorily if I didn't get great reviews. The psychology of it is that you are paying for reviews, even if what you're really paying for is a service to find potential reviewers. So I can't really blame anybody if mediocre reviews are tinging the way people view the service when they may be getting exactly what they signed up for.


^^^

My beef: They misrepresent the service by stating that they read all reviews, which implies they read reviews _before_ the review is posted. They have no rating system. And when I received a review, which they agreed was unfair, they did nothing to correct it. I fully expected to receive objective reviews--not all great reviews--but objective.


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

Moses: When I signed up, they promised a minimum of 10. Don't know what they promise now. I presume that most of the recent reviews that mention complimentary copies are from Bookrooster. The ranking number isn't what concerned me most, it was that the reviewers seemed surprised to learn there are love scenes in a paranormal romance despite the sensuality level of warm that is at the top of the product description. Paranormal romance readers tend to expect love scenes, not the other way around.

My concern is that these reviews are from people who are not familiar with the genre. While that's not specifically what Suzanne is concerned about, I think that lack of genre familiarity had something to do with her experience, too.

Oh well, live and learn


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## PJJones (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. I had to leave a comment beneath the one star review. Hope you don't mind. 
"This is a short story collection, hence the reason the stories were short."


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

It's not that a satisfactory review has to be a positive one, but if the review was based on a misunderstanding of the material such that even the people administering the service think it's unfair, that's an unsatisfactory review.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

I agree, Kathy, lack of familiarity with the genre did contribute to my book's one-star review--and comments in other reviews. 

My complaints about Book Rooster are numerous--and they've offered no resolution. In fact, they haven't answered my last email. That's why I posted here.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

PJJones said:


> I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. I had to leave a comment beneath the one star review. Hope you don't mind.
> "This is a short story collection, hence the reason the stories were short."


 LOL Glad you said it instead of me.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

KathyCarmichael said:


> Moses: When I signed up, they promised a minimum of 10. Don't know what they promise now. I presume that most of the recent reviews that mention complimentary copies are from Bookrooster. The ranking number isn't what concerned me most, it was that the reviewers seemed surprised to learn there are love scenes in a paranormal romance despite the sensuality level of warm that is at the top of the product description. Paranormal romance readers tend to expect love scenes, not the other way around.
> 
> My concern is that these reviews are from people who are not familiar with the genre. While that's not specifically what Suzanne is concerned about, I think that lack of genre familiarity had something to do with her experience, too.
> 
> Oh well, live and learn


Is _Angel and Good_ a paranormal romance with love scenes? To be honest, that shocks me considering the cover. The cover has a Christmas ornament on it and it says "Funny and Heartwarming." If that's the case, I think you could probably get a cover that broadcasts your genre better. In this case, I wonder if that's why the people who reviewed it didn't seem to be PNR readers.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2011)

Thanks for this post Suzanne!

I have a good friend who pointed me to Book Rooster as a possible way of getting those all-important "non-family/friend" reviews. One thing that concerned me was whether the reviewer would identify his/her review on Amazon etc. as having come from Book Rooster, so I emailed them and asked. The response was basically that they discourage their reviewers from disclosing that info, but don't attempt to control what the reviewer says. That alone was a deal-breaker for me because it's kind of a vicious circle - even though the review is technically solicited/paid for, it's supposed to be unbiased - however, the average person seeing the Book Rooster association may eventually equate it with a "fake" review...

Melissa


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

foreverjuly said:


> Really? ? ? ? ? ? I've heard story after story of people getting banner ads and then not seeing a single sale all day. There are a staggering number of ways authors can waste their money. In fact, outside of putting a book together, there are really only a very few worthwhile reasons to crack open your wallet.


Yes, REALLY  . My ad was an animated gif with 3 rotating slides; it focused on 1. the idea of the book, 2. what it was a parody of and 3. the limited time sale of 99 cents.

Maybe it was the combination of the 3 that made it work or maybe something else I don't understand, but I went with my gut, and I knew I couldn't create an ad that told anyone much of anything in just a single banner.

As for cracking open your wallet, I think advertising is still worthwhile for building awareness and potential future benefits; I know people say there's so much out there and it's all white noise and everything gets lost in the clutter, but I also believe that with the ease of publishing an ebook there is a whack load of competition like never before, so additional efforts (_when you've already been featured on people's blogs, when you're still waiting in a queue of 6 months with the hope of a big book review blog giving you a shot_) can help. Getting you book in people's faces may actually have an impact later down the road, whether via a sample download that turns into a sale, a review further down the road, word of mouth etc. This is why now, I'd rather do that then pay to have my book sent to people who know they have a job to review it, without any knowledge of the product description, unless they check that out just for fun which they probably won't.

I'm not just in this to say I published a book. The main satisfaction is writing what I love, FOR SURE, but I also want to sell a ton and be remembered for that, which makes it a business that I'm willing to invest in...to an extent.

Here's another way I justify the occasional advertising spend: *not going out and getting drunk every weekend + less money spent on clothes that I'll hate after wearing them once anyway = more $ for book advertising*

Honestly, that money was never going to my retirement fund  ...


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

*High fives Romi*


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## Christopher Meeks (Aug 2, 2009)

This thread is interesting because it brings to light expectations and needs. What's clear these days is that customer reviews are as important or perhaps more important than professional reviews. When I read a customer review, I tend to pay more attention to those who are passionate strangers--people the author may not know. I once worked in a public affairs office, and there was the motto that "All ink is good ink." 

Suzanne, if your book had a couple of customer reviews, and people might think friends or family wrote them, your book would not likely be considered seriously. On the other hand, if it has a dozen or more reviews, some of them negative, some of them positive, then the potential reader can see this book has a community of readers. If the negative reviews seem like sour milk, people will understand. They're countered by positive reviews. The more important thing is that you have a number of reviews.

In John Locke's recent and now popular book on how he sold a million eBooks, he said the more popular that your book becomes, the more negative reviews it will get. That's because people outside your book's genre will read it and not like it. He says accept that. He says that what you should worry about are a lot of 3-star reviews, meaning the book doesn't have a fire to get people worked up. One-star and five-star reviews mean people are getting worked up.

Check out some reviews by famous authors, say Kurt Vonnegut. He has one-star reviews. "Slaughterhouse Five" has 823 reviews, 32 of them one-star. "This is the first Vonnegut book I've read, and it could very well be the last. The humor wasn't very effective for me, and in general the book irritated me," says a one-star reviewer. Would that make me not want to read Vonnegut's book? No. Humor is subjective. Your book has humor, so it's subjective. 

I like the idea of the Bookrooster service. All they promise are ten reviews--not that they are by professional or even well-read reviewers. You ask me, pay another $49.95 and get another ten reviews. Soon it'll look like a hot-topic book. 

I’ll end with the point it’s not fun getting anything less than five-star reviews. Anything less-than-glowing feels as if the reader didn’t spend enough time or thought on the book. If a reader doesn’t get the humor, then saying your book is unfunny misses its essence. 

I’d been a paid theatre reviewer for many years in Los Angeles, and when I ran into playwrights and directors who I’d reviewed, they could quote word for word any perceived slight, even if most of the review was a rave. It’s hard for people to get criticism. My new book has a lot of humor, and I’m sure some reviewers won’t think it’s funny. It won’t feel good, but oh well. Feel good, though, that you’re getting reviews. An Amazon page with few or no reviews is just not considered.


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## MH Sargent (Apr 8, 2010)

Suzanne, thanks so much for posting this. I got the email blast from Kindle Nation too and what sounds appealing is that they review the reviews, if you will. I thought about signing up, but for some reason, I held back. Now, I'm glad I did and won't be signing up with them.

Coming from Kindle Nation, I presumed that Book Rooster was pro-indie. Doesn't sound like it now, though.


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## Jerri Kay Lincoln (Jun 18, 2011)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> nasty one-star reviews (one, I believe, from a guy I dated)


Susanne, that's hysterical! Was one of the stories about him? Can you put a note beneath the review saying it was guy you dated . . . it would immediately turn a one star review into a five star review!!

Amazon has lists of their top five hundred reviewers. I went through them one by one and came up with several who would be interested in my *tiny* genre . . . spiritual/woo woo. I ended up with three five star reviews and one four star reviews . . . all from strangers. This was for my Unicorn Whisperer book.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I am responding to several posts, so please take the "you" as hypothetical, or collective, not personally.

I think the problem here is an expectation of "objective," "unbiased" reviews.

There is no such thing as an "objective" review. No person can read a book and write a review without having their personal views be a part of it. A review, by definition, is an *opinion*.

Was the review "biased"? Well, in this case, I can only assume that by "biased," you mean that it was influenced by something other than the reviewer's opinion. That's all it can mean, since you have already asked for their opinion. So, technically, you will receive all "biased" reviews, no matter who reviews it, but you are asking for a review that is not biased by something outside of the reviewer's own viewpoint.

Do any of you think your reviews were "biased" by something else? Do you think that, since the reviewer knows you paid for the privilege of making your book available to them, it biased them into giving you a poor review? If not, then what do you think is causing them to have this bias?

You stated that BookRooster should give reviewers a "rating system." Well, they have - Amazon's. When you rate a book on Amazon, what the stars mean is clearly marked.

Go read the reviews on my site. Every single one of them, without exception, is *SUBJECTIVE* and *BIASED*, as all of them are based on a reviewer's opinion.

The difference is simply that my staff and I are a little more articulate about why we liked or disliked a book; at least, I hope we are.

However, this thread illustrates exactly why paid reviews, regardless of how the service is presented, are a bad idea. If you received all 5-Star reviews for your "purchase," readers would eventually pick up on that, and the reviews would become worthless. Receive anything less, and the author is unhappy.

It's a no-win situation.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

Lynn ODell said:


> Receive anything less, and the author is unhappy.
> 
> It's a no-win situation.


Is that what people were saying? 5 stars or weep into a pillow? That's not how I read it.

I'll let Suzanne speak for herself, but it's about Book Rooster emailing out books to reviewers who simply identify a genre they like. When that book file arrives in the reviewers' inbox, does it come attached with a product description? Because if not, that's like getting a print book to review with no book jacket or description on the back. This isn't always a crucial factor, but when your book has a specific format or style and that's the intention, there's a greater chance of a pissed off review because the reviewer hated the format, as if they were ripped off to receive such a style of book.

So all I'm saying is...are the reviewers on Book Rooster forced to read a product description? Is that part of their instructions? If not, I think that's an issue.

That's all.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Romi said:


> Is that what people were saying? 5 stars or weep into a pillow? That's not how I read it.
> 
> I'll let Suzanne speak for herself, but it's about Book Rooster emailing out books to reviewers who simply identify a genre they like. When that book file arrives in the reviewers' inbox, does it come attached with a product description? Because if not, that's like getting a print book to review with no book jacket or description on the back. This isn't always a crucial factor, but when your book has a specific format or style and that's the intention, there's a greater chance of a p*ssed off review because the reviewer hated the format, as if they were ripped off to receive such a style of book.
> 
> ...


The reviewer mentioned they liked the title and the cover, that both of those made them think they would enjoy the book.

Edited to add: If they are sending out covers, I would think they would include a description. If not, surely any reader would go read the description to see if they were even remotely interested.

I provide my staff with a list of books for review. That list includes the title and author's name. That's it. My staff goes to Amazon and reads the descriptions to choose what books they want to review.


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## Joseph.Garraty (May 20, 2011)

I received a solicitation from this service not long ago and elected to avoid it, on the grounds that it's an awful lot like paying for reviews. 

There are a ton of great book blogs out there, and the owners are great people only too happy to help out new authors. I've had a pretty good experience with them--the reviews are free and honest, and the reviewers really give your book a fair shake if they decide they want to read it. Yes, this process takes a lot of research and time, but deals like Book Rooster seem very random, hit-or-miss, and a little on the shady side. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but I sure do appreciate you sharing it with us by way of warning.


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## Joseph.Garraty (May 20, 2011)

Lynn ODell said:


> However, this thread illustrates exactly why paid reviews, regardless of how the service is presented, are a bad idea. If you received all 5-Star reviews for your "purchase," readers would eventually pick up on that, and the reviews would become worthless. Receive anything less, and the author is unhappy.
> 
> It's a no-win situation.


Yes, this. Exactly.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

I thought about paying to use Book Rooster but the whole thing was close to paying for a review. The individual reviewers might not be getting any money but someone at Book Rooster is. They are getting compensated for the time and effort it takes to distribute your book and make sure you get your minimum of ten reviews. From the little I have seen and heard, they don't seem to put your book in the hands of people interested in a particular genre or type of book. I'll pass on the service.



Romi said:


> I'm not just in this to say I published a book. The main satisfaction is writing what I love, FOR SURE, but I also want to sell a ton and be remembered for that, which makes it a business that I'm willing to invest in...to an extent.
> 
> Here's another way I justify the occasional advertising spend: *not going out and getting drunk every weekend + less money spent on clothes that I'll hate after wearing them once anyway = more $ for book advertising*
> 
> Honestly, that money was never going to my retirement fund  ...


I'm all about investing in my books but I am focusing on cover art and editing. I've had bad to mediocre results with paid advertising and sponsorships in the short and long term. My advertising money is now going to my drinking and hang out fund. My sales usually increase by a couple of books when I'm hanging out drinking margaritas and tequila shooters. Hehehehe, some of my best stories have come from a night of bar hopping. That's a win in my book.

EDIT: For those who don't want to go out and get drunk every weekend, I will be happy to do it for you and extoll the virtues of your book or anything else assuming I have spending cash and I'm not writing. Better yet, we can go out together and do drunk writer stuff.... you know mature stuff, scout's honor.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

Lynn ODell said:


> If not, surely any reader would go read the description to see if they were even remotely interested.


I don't think that's a safe assumption. There's a difference between a regular reader who signed up to review free books, vs. your staff who knows they're supposed to read the description.

There's also a HUGE difference between a regular reader who signed up to review books, and a reader who signed up to review books on Book Rooster, motivated by the chance of winning *PRIZES.*

WTF.

Yes.

I just saw this on the website now, in the section where they invite new reviewers...*the website encourages them to become reviewers, so they can win cool prizes like Amazon gift cards and FREE Kindles...*, why didn't I notice that before?! (_I'm a moron_). If I had I would have NEVER signed up for this site. As if I want my book reviewed by people motivated to submit the maximum volume of reviews so they can increase their chances of winning prizes? What stops them from lying and saying they're interested in EVERY genre? AS IF they'd waste their time on seeking out product descriptions.

Most. Hurry up. And Read. 
Must. Post. Reviews. 
Must. Win. Prizes.
_
Quote from website: "Free books and cool prizes, what more could a rooster want?"
_
*Hindsight is 20/20  *


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2011)

Lynn ODell said:


> I am responding to several posts, so please take the "you" as hypothetical, or collective, not personally.
> 
> I think the problem here is an expectation of "objective," "unbiased" reviews.
> 
> ...


/thread

Lynn took us all to school on this one. Thumbs up.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

I take back what I said about their reviewers not getting paid. One day, I'll get tired of being wrong.


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## ashel (May 29, 2011)

I was all set to say how this wasn't exactly paying for reviews, it was paying for a brokering service, so more like, say, paying a dating site to match you up with potential dates rather than...paying directly for the other thing. 

But then I was wondering how they got their reviewers to sign up. 
And it looks they offer some compensation. I mean, it's not much - prizes? - and you could argue that all the free books is a form of compensation, but the same thing happens with Amazon reviewers. (I think it was Gawker who did a thing about top Amazon reviewers getting offered tons of free swag?) And there has long been a tradition of free review copies, no? 

And yet they guarantee 10 reviews for a set price. 

I admit my sketch-o-meter is going off, but I'm not totally sure how or why yet. I think part of it may be that I use the number of reviews as a rough estimate of a book's popularity over time, and reviews that don't disclose that they're the result of a paid brokering service may misrepresent that popularity, however unintentionally. 

Am I understanding this correctly? The reviewers just have to disclose that they received a free review copy, not that they received a free copy via BookRooster? If so, that's....yeah. Disclosure is good.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

genevieveaclark said:


> But then I was wondering how they got their reviewers to sign up.
> And it looks they offer some compensation. I mean, it's not much - prizes? - and you could argue that all the free books is a form of compensation, but the same thing happens with Amazon reviewers. (I think it was Gawker who did a thing about top Amazon reviewers getting offered tons of free swag?) And there has long been a tradition of free review copies, no?


I'm wondering how the Top reviewers are measured on Amazon though? Doesn't it have to do with the percentage of how helpful your reviews are? Correct me if I'm wrong. My point is I wouldn't have an issue with reviewers who have been PROVEN to be helpful to customers over time getting prizes after the fact, but when a no-one out of nowhere is encouraged to sign up as a beginner reviewer for the very reason of getting prizes?

That seems Sketch-Bags Mcgee to me...


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Giveaways are fine. A lot of authors and websites have done promotions where they offered prizes like books, kindles, and amazon gift cards.

I think it's an issue if you treat reviews like a lottery tickets. It takes something away from the whole review system no matter how helpful a reviewer might be rated.

Of course, that's just me. I have a lot of weird ideas and run around in a cape doing heroic stuff from time to time when I'm not pub crawling or writing.

And now for my attempt to lure Romi and the rest of you to the dark side..... drinkie?


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> I'd just received several nasty one-star reviews (one, I believe, from a guy I dated),


Maybe he was mad because you put his picture on your cover. hee hee couldn't resist.


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## ashel (May 29, 2011)

Oh, I was just pointing out that there's always been some sketchiness in the review process, and there was probably more when it was just Mr. Reviewer going out to dinner with Mr. Editor because they were at college together and in the same weird secret society or something, and Mr. Editor casually asks about that book, the one that was written by his wife's colleague's son, and so on... I think in some ways, conflicts of interest are impossible to avoid completely, and the only remedy is full disclosure. That said, reviews as lottery tickets is definitely giving me a case of sketch fever.

Also:



kyrin said:


> And now for my attempt to lure Romi and the rest of you to the dark side..... drinkie?


*clinks glass*

Already there, my friend.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

Thanks for sharing that so someone else doesn't get burned.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

kyrin said:


> And now for my attempt to lure Romi and the rest of you to the dark side..... drinkie?


I could SO use a drink right now, as I lay here with a heating pad on my internally bruised ribs stuck inside on a beautiful summer's day...

Do you deliver?



*PS: @genevieve:* I love the multiple applications of the word "sketch"....sketch-fever, LOL...love it!


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Romi said:


> I could SO use a drink right now, as I lay here with a heating pad on my internally bruised ribs stuck inside on a beautiful summer's day...
> 
> Do you deliver?


In the interest of galactic peace, I won't say what first came to mind.

Yes, I do. Okay, the answer was the same as the first one I thought of.

Sorry to hear about the ribs. It's always better to be hurt and stuck inside during the winter.


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## Tom Junior (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't see using a service like this any differently than using a service to set up blog tours. Big companies hire out agencies to gather public opinion all the time. Years ago, I worked for a market survey company and essentially what they did was not that different than Book Rooster. We gave out free product samples in an exchange for opinions. 

*Putting on my Devil's Advocate Hat*

But here's the thing..when you toss a bunch of freebies out and ask for feedback..you're going to get some weirdness. In fact, you can count on it. My guess is Book Rooster asks potentials to pick their favorite genres, my second guess is a fair number of people choose blindly.

There's no way to weed these people out...no way...not possible...stupid always finds a way. 

So, if you use this service (or any like it) you should expect some oddities, factor them in even. I actually have a higher regard for the service knowing that they don't read the reviews before they are posted on Amazon. I mean honestly, what would you have done if some random reviewer had left the same sort of comment?

And I totally get it that it's not the '1-star' that's bugging you, but the annoyance that the reader didn't understand it was a short story collection. My point is, this could have happened even if you didn't use Book Rooster.


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## Romi (Apr 4, 2011)

kyrin said:


> In the interest of galactic peace, I won't say what first came to mind.
> 
> Yes, I do. Okay, the answer was the same as the first one I thought of.


  

*PJ below*---in the interests of not hi-jacking this topic I'll PM you!

Back to topic, Book Rooster, until I'm convinced otherwise, is cock-a-doodle-poop, as is probably any "review books, win prizes" type of concept. That's my sole opinion, and devil's advocate is right, the bad reviews based on format or other strange things could come from anywhere.

It's a mad, mad world, but I guess we chose to be a part of it 

Toodles!


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## PJJones (Apr 5, 2011)

Romi, what happened to your ribs? Did the Bieber fans finally seek their revenge?


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## kellymcclymer (Apr 22, 2010)

Thank you for posting. I think this service is not good and not bad, but it isn't for me. It's one thing to get bad reviews you didn't actively seek (although publishing a book has to be passively seeking reviews of some sort...even if they never make it out of the reader's head and into speech or onto Amazon  

I truly envy those writers who inspire their readers to post passionately (good and bad -- even the biggest bestsellers have 1 stars on Amazon). If I ever manage to do that, I'm going to be mightily pleased. And I'm not going to wonder if it was only because I subscribed to a review service (but I don't enter contests any longer for the same reason -- if someone comes to me, then I know it's real...maybe   ).


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

Al Schneider said:


> Soooo... They charge authors 67 bucks to give away copies of their _own _books to get reviews from people they don't know and have no real control over the results?!?!?!


I'm confused too. What, exactly, is the benefit for the author in this business model?


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

T.J. Dotson said:


> I don't see using a service like this any differently than using a service to set up blog tours. Big companies hire out agencies to gather public opinion all the time. Years ago, I worked for a market survey company and essentially what they did was not that different than Book Rooster. We gave out free product samples in an exchange for opinions.
> 
> *Putting on my Devil's Advocate Hat*
> 
> ...


There is a big difference between paying for a blog tour / publicity and paying for reviews.

There is also a big difference between giving away review copies and what Book Rooster is doing. Romi found this gem on their website.



Romi said:


> _"Free books and cool prizes, what more could a rooster want?"_


The Book Rooster system is more like a lottery system with the reviews being used as tickets. The reviewers are getting a chance for compensation which gives them incentive to review as many books as possible to increase their chances of winning a prize. That sort of thing destroys the integrity of the review process.


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## tkmurphy (Apr 21, 2011)

Well, I signed up for this. But it was 49.99 then and I see it is $67 now. Lets see how it turns out. But I think they said that the folks doing the reviews are not paid. I found that interesting, though I didn't know about the prizes. But when you are a new author with absolutely no name recognition or following, I guess you have to try a few things out to get a balanced opinion from strangers.


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## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> Yes, Moses, so far I've received five reviews. Most of them good, one other by a person who doesn't understand the short story genre.
> 
> To reclarify: my issue isn't that I received a one-star review, but that Book Rooster has no rating system, they don't preview the reviews, and if a book receives a subjective, unfair review, they won't do anything to help.


I don't really see the 1 star being subjective, much less unfair, though I do see how it's frustrating.

Subjective and unfair would be Book Rooster giving a review copy to a particularly disagreeable and mean-spirited Catholic nun who you were related to and who counsels women about chastity and discretion.

Then again, the reviewer "...was _defiantly_ left wanting more..." (emphasis mine). You have to respect a reader who, after being told in no uncertain terms that he/she would receive NO MORE, is DEFIANT (!) about wanting more. I believe it was Romeo (how appropriate, given your book's subject) who said, "I defy you, short stories!"

Back on topic, are you saying they need a rating system that would judge qualities of the book on a scale of 1-5? Like prose, length, typos, would you recommend it to a friend, etc.?


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Erica Sloane said:


> I'm confused too. What, exactly, is the benefit for the author in this business model?


Sometimes it's hard to get reviews for books. I've had a book out for seven months and it only has two reviews. I'm content to let reviews trickle in as I make sales, other writers aren't. Reviews can do a lot to help your sales and promote your book. Book Rooster is offering a way to get a minimum of ten reviews for your book. It's a tempting offer especially if you're confident your book will be reviewed favorably by their reviewers.



southerntype said:


> I don't really see the 1 star being subjective, much less unfair, though I do see how it's frustrating.
> 
> Subjective and unfair would be Book Rooster giving a review copy to a particularly disagreeable and mean-spirited Catholic nun who you were related to and who counsels women about chastity and discretion.


Okay, there is a disconnect here. The reviewers at Book Rooster request which books they want to download and review after Book Rooster sends them an invitation based on their reading preferences. If a reviewer requests a book of short stories to review, I think it's out of line for the reviewer to give the book a one star because the book has short stories. That's like going to the beach and complaining there is sand on the beach. If the reader was complaining about the quality of the stories that would be different.

EDIT: Now, the complaint about the length of a short story could be valid but it all comes down to how long or short that person thinks a short story should be. Some people have this idea that a short story equals a novella and that isn't true.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I've been on the fence about this service. It bothers me. Now, with the increase in price and vague lure of prizes, it bothers me even more.

Fwiw, consider this: For $67 I could gift using Amazon's Kindle Gifting program over 150 copies of my book. Even if I only got 10% of them to review, I'd still be ahead of the game.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2011)

Monique said:


> I've been on the fence about this service. It bothers me. Now, with the increase in price and vague lure of prizes, it bothers me even more.
> 
> Fwiw, consider this: For $67 I could gift using Amazon's Kindle Gifting program over 150 copies of my book. Even if I only got 10% of them to review, I'd still be ahead of the game.


Wait, what? If you book costs 99c, couldn't you gift 67 copies of your book? Is there something I'm missing about the gifting feature?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> Wait, what? If you book costs 99c, couldn't you gift 67 copies of your book? Is there something I'm missing about the gifting feature?


You get paid for those "sales".


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## Sandra Edwards (May 10, 2010)

Monique said:


> I've been on the fence about this service. It bothers me. Now, with the increase in price and vague lure of prizes, it bothers me even more.
> 
> Fwiw, consider this: For $67 I could gift using Amazon's Kindle Gifting program over 150 copies of my book. Even if I only got 10% of them to review, I'd still be ahead of the game.


I tend to agree. I just don't like the idea of "paying" a service for reviews. It reeks to me.

@ Jason...Monique's math isn't off. She's getting .35 of that .99 back


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I just don't like the idea of "paying" a service for reviews. It reeks to me.


This was my first thought when I saw it on Konrath's blog. I couldn't exactly put a finger on why I didn't want to do it-- I just thought it was something I wanted to stay away from. The fact that they're giving away prizes to reviewers doesn't make me like it any better. I still can't say there's anything really wrong with it... I just don't think it's for me *shrugs*.


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## ajbarnett (Apr 11, 2011)

I saw their advert a couple of days ago. I definitely won't be looking any more.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

First let me say I absolutely agree with Lynn and T.J. 

The only problem is the confusion about what you're paying for.  This service did not read at all to me as though it was offering policed reviews, only that they cull their reviewers.  Frankly, I wouldn't want a service which would take down a review like that -- because, imho, that would mean the reviews are tainted. You want genuine reviews, the good, the bad and the ugly.  And you want to be sure your money and opinion is not influencing the reviewers.  

I signed up to try the service (in August, I think -- must check calendar) as an experiment when Konrath mentioned it.  I assumed that the point here is that what you're paying for is a kind of review submission service, not a service which provides a particular kind of reviews.  All they promise is to cull their ranks of bad apples now and then.  If I thought I was paying for content, I'd run the other way.  But convenience, sure, run it up the flag pole and see what happens.

If the reviews are all lazy, crappy junk, then I would never even consider doing it again.  But if it's a normal range of reviews -- equivalent, say to posting a call for reviewers on a reader's forum somewhere -- then it's just a matter of whether the money is worth the saving of time and effort. (And also whether I would do that kind of call in the first place.)

Camille


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Author thinks book is great.

Author welcomes fair reviews, meaning reviews about how great book is great.

Reviewer doesn't like book.

Unfair!

In short, everyone is entitled to the writer's opinion, or else something's up. The reviewer is wrong, or stupid, or ... wrong, or biased. By "biased," leaning in the wrong direction, because biased toward liking a book is a-okay. 

When you put copies out there, you're gambling. Each copy is another spin of the wheel. You're hoping that your books will go to ideal readers, people who love the genre, and like your voice. Folks who'll be forgiving of your weaknesses. Someone who'll follow through with an actual, positive review. 

This is what you hope. This is neither guaranteed to you more to be expected. Every copy has a chance of ending up in the hands of someone who doesn't get you, doesn't like the thing you do, and -- yes -- sometimes the book ends up with someone who is even Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs. However, I've never seen an author have an issue with a nutjob giving them 5 stars -- certainly not to the extent of wanting to make the review disappear.

As with all gambles, you go in hoping to win big, but you might lose just as big. The fairness of the casino doesn't change just because one day you hit the jackpot, and the next day you feed all your money back into the machine. Only the odds here are much more in your favor since the system is set up in favor of the writer. 

As long as you're going to take without complaint the glowing reviews, you have to take the critical ones as well. If you have objections to the poorly written 1 star review, then you best have an issue with the poorly written 5 star. If the 2 star review is too short, and they didn't state their issues, then I know of equal concern is the 4 star consisting of, "liked it, good read."  

Almost daily, I see a reflexive discounting of critical reviews. "This person gave me 2 stars -- I don't want that. Let me find a reason or reasons why it doesn't count. Let me tell others about it, so they can help me brainstorm reasons why I should discount this, and grounds to protest its existence." Many times, the method is to find a line or two and use it to say the person just didn't get it. 

If this thread had been, with the site running the exact same way, "My wonderful experience with Book Rooster," would people to rushing to cancel? Is the objection the rules, or the realization that there's no guarantee the reviews will be in the author's favor? What do you all really think your money is buying? Do people paying for this Bookrooster thing think they're paying to get reviews or do they think (even on a completely subconscious level) that they're paying for raves?


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

I ordered one because I believe in trying everything to see how it works. We're in the Wild West days here.

My understanding is they give out review copies to people who want them. That is what I am paying for, the DISTRIBUTION of the review copies, not the reviews. I fully expect the typical gamut of people who hate me (there is no shortage) and those who sorta think I am weird. Doesn't really bother me. A thoughtful review gives the reader info. As was pointed out, the very thing that the one-star person points out could be the trigger for the next buyer.

"I hated this. There was way too much sex and milk went up my nose when I laughed. And the sentences had commas."

I've also found that I get my worst reviews from both free books and 99 cent books--which means those books get in the hands of PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T REALLY WANT THEM. Seriously. I've had one-stars that said "I got this because it was free but I don't like supernatural books." I got a one-star for a free book that said only "Wher r all the free buks?"

This is Amazon, not the Pulitzer Prize panel. Peer reviews--don't forget, peers are the people who comprise juries that set murderers free, that vote in horrible politicians, that have made Seth Rogen a star. If nothing else, I'll get $49 of entertainment out of it.

The real problem, in my view, is the heavy weight Amazon puts on the star average when people can not only rate anonymously or under fake identities, but for products which they haven't actually purchased or even seen. Limit it to "real name" and "verified purchase" and I think we'd get terribly close to the truth of things. But where's the fun in that?

Scott


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## Tom Junior (Apr 4, 2011)

Monique said:


> I've been on the fence about this service. It bothers me. Now, with the increase in price and vague lure of prizes, it bothers me even more.
> 
> Fwiw, consider this: For $67 I could gift using Amazon's Kindle Gifting program over 150 copies of my book. Even if I only got 10% of them to review, I'd still be ahead of the game.


I admit..the "prizes" wig me out a bit. I didn't know about that part. I mean we paid people when I worked for the market research company. But in those were usually for 'hard to fill' type projects. Even though I think most people will post an honest review, others will try to game in order to get more chances at the prizes.

I'm still not totally against this type of service, but I think the prize element should be removed.


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## PJJones (Apr 5, 2011)

Sandra Edwards said:


> I tend to agree. I just don't like the idea of "paying" a service for reviews. It reeks to me.
> 
> Agreed! If you promote your book on your own, you can generate enough 'real' reviews.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

T.J. Dotson said:


> I admit..the "prizes" wig me out a bit. I didn't know about that part. I mean we paid people when I worked for the market research company. But in those were usually for 'hard to fill' type projects. Even though I think most people will post an honest review, others will try to game in order to get more chances at the prizes.
> 
> I'm still not totally against this type of service, but I think the prize element should be removed.


Me too. That's the only part of this service that I don't like. I think Bookrooster offers a very valid service for authors who want more reviews from real people. However, there is an element of randomness and chance in it. You have to know that you might get reviewed by someone who isn't perfectly in your target audience, and you might end up with some odd reviews (just like real life). Although, overall the Bookrooster reviews I've seen (so far) look legitimate.

One thing that is great about the service is that there's no communication between the author and the reviewer. When you go and give out 500 free copies of your book on the Amazon forums, there's a little built of guilt attached to the free book. The people who get the books might feel they should be nice to you because you're an indie or because you gave them a free book. Not so in this case. In that respect, this is a fairer, more objective setup for generating honest reviews.

It's not for everyone, but I think it's a pretty good solution for authors who are staring at a book with no reviews--or for anyone who just wants a more objective and random sampling of reviews on his or her work.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

scottnicholson said:


> I got a one-star for a free book that said only "Wher r all the free buks?"


And you still haven't answered my question. U r Dik.


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## RobynB (Jan 4, 2011)

daringnovelist said:


> First let me say I absolutely agree with Lynn and T.J.
> 
> The only problem is the confusion about what you're paying for. This service did not read at all to me as though it was offering policed reviews, only that they cull their reviewers. Frankly, I wouldn't want a service which would take down a review like that -- because, imho, that would mean the reviews are tainted. You want genuine reviews, the good, the bad and the ugly. And you want to be sure your money and opinion is not influencing the reviewers.
> 
> ...


This is how I looked at it when I read about the service in the KND newsletter. I'm all about outsourcing tasks, and it was worth it to me to pay someone to do the leg work and get my book in the hands of people willing to review it. I figured 10 reviews -- hopefully 70 percent would be decent and I could live with it if three were two stars or below (I know, I know -- easier said than living it in real life). I didn't read the fine print, so I missed the prizes and stuff some of the others caught (or maybe that was added to the site later? I literally signed up when the KND newsletter came over the wire).

Anyhow, I signed up, and my book was submitted to their reviewers on around 6/20 or so. I've gotten the 10 reviews, and I've been fortunate that they've been positive -- and probably too much so. I know that sounds weird, but some of the 5-star reviews don't reflect the comments _in_ the reviews...they probably should have been more like 3 or 4. (I think I'm sensitive to this since I've read threads here about how too many good reviews can be suspect.)

To Suzanne's point, it would be good if BR provided reviewers with some helpful guidelines (if they don't already -- and it sounds like they might not have done this yet) in how to rate a review (e.g. 5 stars = highly recommended, couldn't put it down, flawless prose; 4 stars = good story, would recommend it, some technical/story issues; 3 stars = enjoyable read, but some issues with story...you get the idea; I'm just riffing here). I'm grateful and not complaining, but I'm also aware of how easily it could have gone in the other direction.

I will say that based on some of the reviews, it sounds like BR is still working out how to match books to a reviewer's "likes," since some of the reviewers for my book noted that they went into it thinking it was one thing but then realized it was another. Some of the reviewers also mentioned they had read the product description, so I'm thinking they must have access to it?

I was planning on signing up for my second novel (coming out in October), but y'all are giving me something to think about. And I also realize there's a good chance I might not be as lucky the second time around. That said, it is a convenient service and an economical one (IMO), and I imagine they'll be working out the kinks.

Suzanne, have you received any other reviews that you can connect to BR? I imagine you'll get some good ones to off-set the one-star.


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## Steve Silkin (Sep 15, 2010)

I think I saw the same notice on Kindle Nation Daily newsletter as you did. I went to a creativity seminar (for corporate types) once. Sounds cheesy, right? Well: They gave us an exercise. Transform your company. Make it and its products ideal. We all looked at each other: Tall order. OK, the seminar leader said. I'm going to help. Close your eyes. Picture the entrance. What does it look like now? Ideally, what should it look like? Picture the receptionist. Where is she sitting? What does she say when a client comes in? Picture your product's packaging. What does it look like now? What should it look like? And so on. Sounds lame, right?

Well, since then, more than 30 years ago, I've used that technique at work, at home, making all sorts of professional and life decisions. Picture the environment. Picture the process. Picture the outcome. And when I saw the Book Rooster notice, I used it again: I pictured the process. I pictured my books being sent to ... some smart people. Some not-so-smart people. Some people who would be completely unfamiliar with the type of stories I write. I pictured some of the reviews these people might post. One of the reviews I pictured (and this is the reason I'm telling this story) was verrrr-y similar to the one you mentioned. Others were a little better, others were much worse. I'm not a clairvoyant and I'm not pretending that I am one: I don't think you needed to be a clairvoyant to predict that outcome.

I'm not telling this story to say, oh Suzanne, you should've known. (I'm not blaming the victim.*) I just thought it might be a way of sharing what I'd learned about closing your eyes and picturing the environment, the process and the outcome.

* I respectfully disagree - this time - with Lynn and Julie (with whom I'm usually in 110 percent accord) because I think that Bookrooster sells** distribution to reviewers who do not meet minimum standards (i.e., give the thing a fair read with respect to its genre, back up your opinion with supporting statements) so I do think Suzanne was victimized. 

** While that may be a salient point in the discussion, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have done it even if it was free.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

T.J. Dotson said:


> But here's the thing..when you toss a bunch of freebies out and ask for feedback..you're going to get some weirdness. In fact, you can count on it. My guess is Book Rooster asks potentials to pick their favorite genres, my second guess is a fair number of people choose blindly.
> 
> There's no way to weed these people out...no way...not possible...stupid always finds a way.


This, I believe, is something we will all become very familiar with - the tyranny of the goober (apologies to Spongebob). Someone recently left a one-star review for one of my short sci-fi stories. He said it was well written but that _he didn't like sci-fi_ and therefore could not finish the 2000 word short. Considering the short was tagged as a sci-fi story, was in the sci-fi section of the website, and had 'A science Fiction short story by...' on the copyright page, the reviewer should have twigged it wasn't a genre he enjoyed. In the end I decided not to have the review removed because it told anyone who read it two things- first, the writing is good and, second, it's _sci-fi_.

Ethics of paying for reviews aside, I would be very upset if I paid for a reviewing services from an organisation that hadn't establish a method to weed out the goobers from their lists. If they allow anyone to review for them, then the only thing that distinguishes them from services like librarything and goodreads is the fee that they charge.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Frankly, if you're paying them to weed out the goobers.... you're paying for an unethical service.  It might be somewhere within the realm of ethical if BookRooster controlled and was fully responsible for the site the reviews appear on.  (But only if you squint.)  AMAZON is in control of what appears on their site, and if it doesn't violate Amazon's rules, then you have no say....

Which brings me to the point: We've got to get over this idea that we can control the reactions of reviewers.  We don't get to censor them, no matter how stupid they are.  They're writing for their audience -- which may be other stupid people.

Other than complaints about reviews which clearly violate the rules of the site where they appear, or cases of defamation, it is just plain unethical to try to influence a reviewer.

Camille


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## PJJones (Apr 5, 2011)

I agree that an author shouldn't expect great reviews from this service, but the reviewer was clearly confused by stating that the novel was 'disjointed' and read like 'short stories'. Duh, they were short stories. I think when a reviewer has a 'real' reason for giving a one star review, that's understandable. In this case, when the reader clearly hasn't read in the book description that this IS a collection of short stories, Book Rooster should pull the review.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

PJJones said:


> I agree that an author shouldn't expect great reviews from this service, but the reviewer was clearly confused by stating that the novel was 'disjointed' and read like 'short stories'. Duh, they were short stories. I think when a reviewer has a 'real' reason for giving a one star review, that's understandable. In this case, when the reader clearly hasn't read in the book description that this IS a collection of short stories, Book Rooster should pull the review.


I don't think that Book Rooster can pull an Amazon review, only Amazon can do that.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2011)

PJJones said:


> I agree that an author shouldn't expect great reviews from this service, but the reviewer was clearly confused by stating that the novel was 'disjointed' and read like 'short stories'. Duh, they were short stories. I think when a reviewer has a 'real' reason for giving a one star review, that's understandable. In this case, when the reader clearly hasn't read in the book description that this IS a collection of short stories, Book Rooster should pull the review.


I think it's very tough to decide what is and isn't a "real" reason for a bad review. Considering readers are buying or receiving these books for entertainment, saying they didn't like it is reason enough to merit any kind of rating they decide. Not a knock on you, PJ, but I've seen a lot of authors expect some kind of graduate course term paper justifying a bad review in order for it to be legitimate, when really we aren't owed anything in the way of rationale at all if that's the way the reader felt. That's part of why I dislike people whining about goodreads reviews. _Why didn't you spell out everything I did wrong so I can systematically reject it?_


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## ashel (May 29, 2011)

Man, my brilliant post got 'et.

Shorter version: I think there is a place for a brokerage that distributes review copies to readers who like to review and charges for this service. I think as long as they do not incentivize the reviews, do not edit or censor for content, and require their reviewers to disclose their relationship with the company, it is in my opinion ethically sound. I actually think it can make the review space safer, if it does all these things, by providing a barrier between reviewers and authors. 
But this is not BookRooster. They do incentivize, and as far as I know they don't require disclosure. I think they ran into trouble when they offered a set number of reviews for a given price, instead of offering exposure to an appropriate audience for a given price. Some books are gonna suck, their blurbs are gonna suck, their covers are gonna suck, <embarrassing edit>there is gonna be nothing about them that will entice people to read or review them. But the authors paid! They have to get their 10 reviews. So, incentives. Reviews become lottery tickets. Icky, icky lottery tickets. And at the same time I don't think authors would pay $67 to merely get exposure to the right audience. Well, some would, and I don't think they'd necessarily be wrong, as long as they realized they're paying for targeted access to people who like to review, not for reviews of a certain caliber or type. But BookRooster would definitely lose money. Ditto if they required disclosure.

So...not gonna happen. Unfortunate, I guess. I think they'll still make money. It'll be interesting to see what happens.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

scottnicholson said:


> I ordered one because I believe in trying everything to see how it works. We're in the Wild West days here.


I hate this approach. Some things really shouldn't be tried. There are a lot of things that look and sound good but aren't. This might be the Wild West but gunfighters and cowboys didn't look for ways to shoot themselves in the foot or take stupid chances (unless there was no other alternative), at least not the ones who hoped to retire without a case of lead poisoning.

Writing is a craft and an art form but publishing is a business. Most businesses don't try everything out there to see how it works. It's like throwing crap at a wall and seeing what sticks. Something might but a good majority of stuff just slides off and you have to clean up the mess.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2011)

scottnicholson said:


> I ordered one because I believe in trying everything to see how it works.


Sorry, Scott.


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## CaedemMarquez (Mar 23, 2011)

Wow, this is a perfect example on why good customer service is so important. This service has already lost several KB clients just based on this thread. That's a couple hundred dollars.

Caedem


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Imogen Rose said:


> I don't think that Book Rooster can pull an Amazon review, only Amazon can do that.


Exactly! *They are not a review service. Book Rooster does NOT publish reviews.* If they were, it would be an incredible breech of ethics.

They just provide books to freelance reviewers. The reviewers then post reviews on review sites. If the reviews meet the standards of the review sites, that's no business of Book Rooster. If Amazon considers that review to be a legitimate review, then it's a legit review. (And if you think that's wrong, take it up with Amazon.)

Camille


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

southerntype said:


> I don't really see the 1 star being subjective, much less unfair, though I do see how it's frustrating.
> 
> Subjective and unfair would be Book Rooster giving a review copy to a particularly disagreeable and mean-spirited Catholic nun who you were related to and who counsels women about chastity and discretion.
> 
> ...


Well, I went to work, came home, and I see this thread is still going strong.

Regarding the quote above, I was suggesting they have some kind of rating system: content, formatting, writing quality -- I was thinking of the Red Adept model.

Of course, I realize reviews are subjective. Humor, in particular is subjective. But I thought I was paying for a service that had some standards for reviews. In my mind, a one-star review=total failure on every level of quality.

Also, I had no idea, until today and this thread, that the reviewers were receiving incentives.

On top of that, I feel the way Book Rooster presents itself is deceptive, implying that reviews are read BEFORE they're posted--and then turning around and saying they are not. Plus, their response is slow.

And: they state they will match reviewers to your genre, which they clearly do not. If someone has little or no concept of a genre, how can they review it?

If these were people who paid for the book and posted, I would have no issue. Maybe some people still think I have no issue, but I think I do. The service that was presented, is not the service I received.


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## Steve Silkin (Sep 15, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> And: they state they will match reviewers to your genre, which they clearly do not. If someone has little or no concept of a genre, how can they review it?
> 
> If these were people who paid for the book and posted, I would have no issue. ... The service that was presented, is not the service I received.


Yes, and yes, if my previous post wasn't clear enough.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> If these were people who paid for the book and posted, I would have no issue. Maybe some people still think I have no issue, but I think I do. The service that was presented, is not the service I received.


I think that "you get what you pay for" is the lesson here. BookRooster are trying to match readers _willing to review_ (anyone remember how rare those are?) and writers needing reviews. For the price they charge _now_, I'd expect about 2 hours of effort on the part of their staff, to co-ordinate and check reviews - maximum. That's not enough to carefully vet reviewers the way RedAdept does, or ensure high-quality, knowledgeable reviews. You want those standards, take a wander over to Kirkus and check out their prices.

Of course reviewers are receiving incentives to review - do you really expect a pool of reliable volunteers to just come together for free books and the good of the literary community? *snort* Reviewing is _work_.

In my opinion, you had unrealistic expectations, and they weren't met. I'd suggest you put this into the 'Things to Learn From' basket, and remember to check into things a little more carefully next time something looks too cheap to be true.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

I paid for 10 reviews at Book Rooster.  I've read this entire thread, the original review which sparked this thread, and the product description for "Dating My Vibrator".  I see problems on both sides of the question that motivated this thread.  After reading everything, I've decided, with reservations, to allow Book Rooster to proceed.  I think bad reviews are inevitable, but I believe both sides could have taken action to reduce the chances of a bad review.

First off, I think the book description is overly hyped and does not present a balanced view of the pamphlet.  In fact, the book description is not a book description at all.  It praises the pamphlet rather than describing it.  More important, this is not a book.  At most--and this is being charitable--"Dating My Vibrator" is a booklet.  But in order to find out that the pamphlet is only 55 pages long, and less than 15,000 words, I had to plow through four long, glittering reviews and a bunch of other stuff.  I would imagine most people are not going to read through all that to find that the item they received is not a book at all, but merely an hour's diversion.  One hour of reading for 99 cents.  Many people would be willing to pay this.  Not me.  Would I be upset to have paid for what I thought was a book, only to receive a pamphlet?  D*mn straight I would!  If I couldn't get my money back, I'd probably write a one-star review, too.  It has nothing to do with the story format.  My wife and I have plenty of short story collections on our shelves.  Most of them are 400-700 pages long.  I have two booklets out, but I highlight the booklet length (21,000 words for one, 26,000 words for the other), and I list the length of each essay in the booklet.  The booklets are companions to a television series, published during the run of the series.  People know exactly what they're getting into.  Being more up-front about the booklet length would have helped, I believe.

Book Rooster has very few book categories, and I feel this could also be problematic.  I don't recall whether there was a humour category, but there was no historical fiction category when I signed up.  This thread has made me aware of the potential for destructive neglect (e.g., giving my book to romance readers who will almost certainly complain that my historical fiction novel has difficult character names (well, duh, they're real, historical figures), history they don't understand, and--worst of all--the heroine dies without a man by her side, so one star all the way for Pearson's terrible romance novel... It seems clear to me that Book Rooster has to work harder to pair reviewer candidates with material they will have some ability to comprehend and enjoy.

I agree wholeheartedly with those who believe Book Rooster is tarnished by offering prizes for reviewing; the "lottery ticket" mentality that so many on this thread have cited as being antithetical to an honest review process can only hurt everyone involved.  However, I also agree with the few hearty souls who point out that an honest review process necessarily entails the writing of negative reviews.  Even avid readers of historical fiction may consider dozens of names like "Yakwathakwe" beyond their ability to track and throw my novel down, never pick it up again, and write a one-star review.  And even if Book Rooster does its job flawlessly, inevitably a high school dropout who's never read anything other than fantasy novels will say, "Sure, I'll give historical fiction a try," with a very predictable outcome.

This is a difficult business we have decided to get into.  We all believe we can write, but most of our self-assessments are wrong.  Even if we can write, there's the matter of learning or paying competent service providers to edit, format, convert, create artwork, and market the book.  It's a tall order, made more difficult by the dearth of reliable, long-established businesses to provide those services we cannot carry out on our own.  I have my doubts about Book Rooster, now more than ever after reading this thread, but I've decided to place a modicum of faith in Book Rooster's good intentions.  I will report back in a few months when I have received the promised ten reviews.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Pearson, here is my product description--copied from the page:

*Product Description*
5 stars from Joe Konrath, who says, "Pure Comedic Brilliance." This is a collection of *NINE SHORT STORIES,* all based (unfortunately) on my own experience. Dating, divorce, desperation--all that good stuff! After nineteen years of marriage, I was suddenly thrust into a brave new world of dating--online, offline, standing in line, listening to lines--and I've survived to tell these tales. CAUTION: if you're contemplating divorce, these stories may convince you to consider marriage counseling. If you're out there dating, chances are you will relate. OMG! Here's a scary thought: maybe you've met some of these guys! Names have been changed to protect the guilty. (14,613 words, approximately 55 pages.)

One more note: These are stand-alone short stories. They aren't linked. They are connected merely by the theme: relationships.

Third edition: Linked Table of Contents and Cover.
Warning: This cover has been banned by Facebook. (Someone objected to a cylinder in a tuxedo.) Proceed at your own risk--PG-13 rated content!

What you were "plowing through" are editorial reviews--not my set-up, but Amazon's. I make the length and product very clear.


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## Myrindyl (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm not a writer, just a reader 

I just signed up to be a reviewer for Book Rooster for couple of reasons:

-New, free books from authors that I might like? Heck yeah, I love new books!

-I might get 'stuff' for posting reviews? Heck yeah, my time and effort for writing a fair and balanced review of a book is worth a potential reward!

I read all the time and I don't think I've *ever* posted a book review at Amazon or anywhere else, though I do often discuss books with my friends who enjoy reading. I will gladly post my opinions about books I'm asked to review if I might get a reward for doing so (other than the pleasure of reading something new, of course). Do I intend to post only positive reviews because I might win some loot? Of course not. Would I sit down and spend the time and energy to write out a clear and articulate review of the length Book Rooster requests without some possibility of a tangible prize? Doubtful, as I never have before.

I haven't been assigned anything to review yet since I just signed up, and their site offers no information I could find about how the incentives are awarded. As I find out more, I'll be happy to share information from that side of the Book Rooster 'fence' if anyone's interested


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Myrindyl said:


> I'm not a writer, just a reader
> 
> I just signed up to be a reviewer for Book Rooster for couple of reasons:
> 
> ...


Thanks!

A desire for information and transparency motivated me to open this discussion.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

Suzanne,

Thank you for your kind response.

You do specify nine short stories, but "short" means different things to different folks. My novels run 95,000 to 130,000 words. When I think "short story", I think 5000 to 8000 words, so nine short stories to me means 45,000 to 72,000 words. I would never have thought that nine stories could add up to only 14,600 words. That's 1620 words per story, which is bordering flash fiction length, not short story length. Also, this is what readers see when they seek the Book Description:



> Editorial Reviews
> Review
> Suzanne Tyrpak puts her experience as a divorcée entering the dating scene into words...The alternately hilarious and heartbreaking result of her efforts is Dating My Vibrator and Other True Fiction.
> --The Durango Herald--Ted Holteen
> ...


I don't question your honesty, I only state my opinion--offered in good faith as friendly advice to a fellow author--that the potential for experiencing a one-star review would have been decreased if the product description--and especially the pamphlet length--were highlighted. As written, the Product Description starts off with a fourth review. When I read this, I was honestly puzzled. Why does the Product Description start with a review? If I had not been reading this as part of a fact-finding exercise, I probably would have stopped right there with "5 stars from Joe Konrath..." and I would have looked elsewhere. My reaction on seeing "5 stars from Joe Konrath", honestly, was that the author was being over-exuberant in praising the book, with too much attention given to glitter, and not enough to content. My negative reaction probably would have caused me to look at other books. As an amateur historian trained to read between the lines, and especially to look for text editing, the current Product Description contains signs of having been edited in response to problems that arose after publishing the original version of the Product Description. Thus, "One more note: These are stand-alone stories..." is tacked onto the description rather than integrated into it. It may well be that this statement appeared in the original version of the PD, but my eyes say it's more likely to be a later add-on. Likewise, the bolded "Nine Short Stories". Nothing wrong at all with this, but it goes to my point that the Product Description contains problems that may have contributed to the receipt of a one-star review. If others were misled by the blurb, then I cannot be alone in my opinion that the blurb did not help the cause of receiving well-informed reviews. I'm trying to be helpful here. Critiques always hurt. But in the end, they almost always help, too. I hope I have helped.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Pearson, it did sound as if you were questioning my honesty. And, yes, a number of the stories are flash fiction. I work very hard to hone my stories, consequently the word count is often low. I don't hide that fact. That's why I give word count and approximate page numbers.

I also write historical fiction. My novels tend to be about 85,000 words. I charge $2.99 for those. But I don't necessarily think an ebook should be priced according to word count. Consider poetry.

By the way, here's how your description appears (please notice all the reviews up front):

Product Description
Reviews

"Myeerah...is expertly placed to interact with several historical personages and provides an engaging account of early Canadian history...Her...compelling story and character arc stand at the heart of the novel...Exquisite historical detail...Excellent novel."
—J. A. Beard, Good Book Alert

"I read Cartier's Ring cover to cover...—right through the night, in fact—for the simple reason that I couldn't put it down. Pearson Moore has given us lasting love, bloody war and a clash of cultures set on the high seas... and in the incomprehensibly vast wilderness of 17th century Canada...and leaves his readers dying to know what happens next...Cartier's Ring is a superbly researched, marvelously written book, and I can't wait for the sequel."
—Paula Cohen, bestselling author of Gramercy Park

“Myeerah is the real heroine, a young girl...who’s forced to grow up very quickly...I’m not ashamed to say that a few times I had a lump in my throat as I read. Moore has brought to life a period of history...I could almost feel...the camps and forests and ships. The battle of the characters became my battle, too. From the first page to the last, the story is gripping. A tale of love, of family, of honor and of power, it’s fitting tribute to the birth of a nation.”
—Barbara Elsborg, bestselling author of Strangers


About the novel:

She is healer, hunter, warrior. Her strength will inspire generations. Her courage will found a nation. Experience history as never before. See the birth of Canada through the eyes of the woman who lived and breathed it: Myeerah of Hawk Clan, Matriarch to a nation.

"Only men have dreams such as this, not girls. Not the daughter of a slave." So begins an adventure that will span eight decades across two continents and dozens of historical figures. From swashbuckling pirates on the high seas to the slave traders of Mexico, to the genocidal wars of North America, Pearson Moore engages from the very first page, using a vibrant prose style that captivates the imagination, and the heart.

Twelve years of intensive research went into building the rich historical background for Cartier's Ring, including dozens of trips to Québec, Montréal, Upstate New York, and Midland, Ontario. But it is the emotional depth of Myeerah's story that brings the novel to life. You will feel her pain as she is beaten and enslaved, touch her tear-streaked face as she witnesses the ritual torture and execution of her brother, share in her joy as she overcomes deprivation and starvation, and stand up and cheer when she vanquishes her enemies.

Using rarely-deployed but highly effective narrative devices, Moore immerses you in a strange world that is attractive in its humanity and intriguing in its statements about our common heritage and destiny. This novel is unabashed in its proclamation of feminine strength, courage, and tenacity. It is a rich and powerful testament to the ideals that founded a nation, and the indefatigable will of the women and men who shared a common vision. Most of all, this is Pearson Moore's tribute to a country and a philosophy of life; his passion is evident on every page.

Cartier's Ring is that rare creation that will change the way you think about the world, about your own country, and most of all, about the country that is the starting point and the focus of every word in this novel: Canada.


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## Tom Junior (Apr 4, 2011)

nomesque said:


> You want those standards, take a wander over to Kirkus and check out their prices.


Thank you for pointing this out..that Kirkus reviews for indies are a PAID SERVICE......



> http://www.kirkusreviews.com/indie/about/ Simply request a review by clicking the link above. You'll give us as much information possible about your book, choose whether you want standard service (7-9 weeks) or express service (3-4 weeks), and pay for your review (standard service $425, express service $575). When you submit your order, you'll get a response from the Kirkus Indie team confirming receipt of your request.


So Kirkus charges to actually have a review written for you! I never knew that.


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

FWIW, I also had a hard time finding the description when I clicked over to see what the thread was about. Also, I'd be curious if this would be such an issue if the reviewer (oh those moronic, ignorant reviewers!) had written exactly the same thing, but given it 4 stars? Seems to me this is yet another stab at reviewers. Oh but of course THIS situation is _completely different,_ it's just THIS reviewer that is wrong, wrong, wrong.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

StaceyHH said:


> FWIW, I also had a hard time finding the description when I clicked over to see what the thread was about. Also, I'd be curious if this would be such an issue if the reviewer (oh those moronic, ignorant reviewers!) had written exactly the same thing, but given it 4 stars? Seems to me this is yet another stab at reviewers. Oh but of course THIS situation is _completely different,_ it's just THIS reviewer that is wrong, wrong, wrong.


My issue is not with the reviewer, but with Book Rooster for the way they presented their service. The presentation seems contradictory.

I've noted the suggestions on the product information, and I'll consider taking out the line from Joe Konrath. The editorial reviews appear before the product description on all pages--that's the Amazon layout. The only way I can change that is to delete the editorial reviews, but I won't do that.

Thanks for your input.

Suzanne


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

The point I'm trying to make is that there is nothing wrong with that review. It's quite clear that she rated it low because she felt the stories didn't deliver, one reason being that they were too short. It's a possibly valid opinion.

It seems you had an expectation that BR should have made sure that your x# of reviews would all be guaranteed to be _good _reviews, when really all they promised was to get your book into the hands of people who are _willing_ to review, either for books or prizes. On that, it seems that they have delivered what you paid for, or are in the process of doing so.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Too short might mean she wanted longer stories, but it can also be a way of saying she was simply unsatisfied or felt something vital was missing. I'm a fan of shorter works -- short stories, novellas, essays... I probably have 80% of the Singles Amazon tosses out there. I'm a very receptive audience to that length, and I go looking for them. Deliberately search out shorter works. 

Sometimes a shorter piece delivers and sometimes it doesn't. When it does, the length feels just right, or too short only because the reader craves more. When it doesn't deliver -- and I don't know that this is the case here -- too short can be a somewhat muddled way of saying "missing something vital" or "unsatisfying." If a story needs something, some people are going to default to the solution being a longer piece. Sometimes that IS the solution. Sometimes it's a reworking of what's there. I don't think "too short" is proof the person was unequipped to enjoy the work. 

Yes, it's possible this reviewer chose poorly or didn't know what she was getting into, but I wouldn't make that assumption.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> Too short might mean she wanted longer stories, but it can also be a way of saying she was simply unsatisfied or felt something vital was missing. I'm a fan of shorter works -- short stories, novellas, essays... I probably have 80% of the Singles Amazon tosses out there. I'm a very receptive audience to that length, and I go looking for them. Deliberately search out shorter works.
> 
> Sometimes a shorter piece delivers and sometimes it doesn't. When it does, the length feels just right, or too short only because the reader craves more. When it doesn't deliver -- and I don't know that this is the case here -- too short can be a somewhat muddled way of saying "missing something vital" or "unsatisfying." If a story needs something, some people are going to default to the solution being a longer piece. Sometimes that IS the solution. Sometimes it's a reworking of what's there. I don't think "too short" is proof the person was unequipped to enjoy the work.
> 
> Yes, it's possible this reviewer chose poorly or didn't know what she was getting into, but I wouldn't make that assumption.


Good points, Michelle and Stacey.

So much of reviewing is subjective. By the way, I always hope to get good reviews, but I never expect them. I did, however, hope for better quality reviews from Book Rooster--good reviews as well as poor reviews--an unrealistic expectation, as others have pointed out. The one-star review merely acted as a catalyst which spurred me to explore the service more deeply. And what I discovered spurred me to post here. Not for my benefit, I knew I'd probably incur the wrath of reviewers and other writers, but so others might benefit from my experience.

Yes, I expected the reviews to be more professional. In other words, less of a gut reaction and, perhaps, more structured. Of course, not everyone can be a RedAdept and give a specific breakdown of a book review. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Michelle, but Lynn and her reviewers consider a number of criteria when reviewing: writing style, conventions of the genre, pace, formatting--of course, personal preference comes into play. But niether five-star reviews nor one-star reviews seem to be given lightly.

As others have pointed out, my expectations for BookRooster were unrealistic.

Thank you for your thoughts.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

I wrote to Book Rooster last night seeking clarification around two questions:

1. Does Book Rooster provide the Book Description to reviewer candidates?
2. How does Book Rooster advise reviewer candidates of a novel's genre not falling into one of their genre categories?

I had to ask #2 since at the time I signed up, Book Rooster did not have an historical fiction genre listed among their categories.  This made me nervous, for reasons I cited earlier in this thread.  Book Rooster responded this morning, providing a detailed response to both questions.  Based on their response, I probably would have chosen to proceed with book reviews, but Book Rooster decided to cancel my order and refund my payment.  I received notice of refund within minutes.

I don't know what exactly motivated Book Rooster to cancel my order.  Perhaps, since they have no historical fiction genre listed, they too were concerned that my novel would not get a fair shake, and that this would result in bad press for them.  I can only speculate.  Despite the particulars of my case and others who have dealt with Book Rooster, I find no evidence they are acting in bad faith.  If given the opportunity again, I would probably sign up for reviews.  I am going to assume they are acting in good faith, and I wish them every success.


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> The one-star review merely acted as a catalyst which spurred me to explore the service more deeply. And what I discovered spurred me to post here. Not for my benefit, I knew I'd probably incur the wrath of reviewers and other writers, but so others might benefit from my experience.


No wrath here.  Your exploration and posting is probably a good thing - just like the discussion about giveaways on LibraryThing and Goodreads alerts people to the problem with people signing up for the books just because they want FREE BOOKS, and not necessarily because they are interested in them.



Pearson Moore said:


> Based on their response, I probably would have chosen to proceed with book reviews, but *Book Rooster decided to cancel my order and refund my payment.* I received notice of refund within minutes.
> 
> *I don't know what exactly motivated Book Rooster to cancel my order. *


This actually bothers me far more than the unpolished review. It makes it look like they don't want anybody for a client who asks too many questions about them. Weird.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

foreverjuly said:


> They'd better not! About LibraryThing, I gave away a bunch of copies there when I first started, and it didn't work out all that well for a variety of reasons. I stand by giveaways as a good strategy for people getting started (or anyone really), but there is a risk that those the story doesn't jive with will come back to bite you.
> 
> As for Book Rooster, I have no idea why these relatively high-profile people think it's a good idea. There are plenty of ways to find reviewers without dropping $50.


I have used LibraryThing to give away quite a few review copies, continue to do so, and have had generally good success with them.

Are they always positive reviews? No, because there were some people who didn't like the novel for one reason or another. But that is always a risk now matter how the review is garnered. Someone isn't going to like something about what we did. I got a one-star review because someone didn't like the font (not even mentioned by a dozen other reviewers and looks normal to me, but even so I'm contacting them to ask what they didn't like about the font).

I have found some very good reviewers over there as well. Honestly, I just think those are the breaks. Now I looked at BookRooster and couldn't see any advantage to paying to have someone else find reviewers for me when i can find ones at LibraryThing or elsewhere with very little trouble.

But let me post this opinion. I do not expect to be able to vet reviewers from Librarything or anywhere else.

Edit: I don't have much experience with Goodreads giveaways, but on Librarything giveaways I have gotten a fairly low percentage of reviews for the number of review copies given out. That would seem to indicate that a lot of people either just request them all or request without intending to do reviews, but that happens with just about everyplace you post to request reviews, so it's not something I fault LibraryThing for.


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## ashel (May 29, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> I got a one-star review because someone didn't like the font (not even mentioned by a dozen other reviewers and looks normal to me).


Oy. I'm waiting for the one star that simply says, "Because I'm having a bad day! AAAAARRRGHH!" And it would still possibly be a valid representation of their experience. People are weird and varied. Yay for that.

But really I'm posting because I, too, am weirded out by Book Rooster's cancellation of Pearson's order. It would surprise me greatly if someone in Book Rooster marketing or whatever hasn't been watching this thread; I'm sure they have google alerts set up just like everyone else, and KB is probably one of the more visible communities of their target demographic. Even if they are ignorant of this discussion, it's still...kinda weird, given the facts in evidence. (wow that sounds pompous. Not meant to be, I just can't think of another phrase. I am low on sleep and caffeine.)


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

1 star reviews sting . . . a LOT.  However, regardless of whether paid for to BR or from free giveaways, once the book falls into the hands of a reviewer, we, the authors, have no say in how the reviewer will handle it.  I had read the ad for BR a few weeks back and never gave any serious thought to buying the services.  It just doesn't sound right to pay someone for reviews and give away books, too.


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## Consuelo Saah Baehr (Aug 27, 2010)

This sounds amateurish and worse - potentially damaging.  I definitely don't like their cavalier attitude over the unfair outcome.  They do not deserve new business and I'm glad you posted this experience.  Bad Book Rooster.  Bad.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Consuelo Saah Baehr said:


> This sounds amateurish and worse - potentially damaging. I definitely don't like their cavalier attitude over the unfair outcome. They do not deserve new business and I'm glad you posted this experience. Bad Book Rooster. Bad.


Whether the review was "fair" or not is just as subjective as the review itself.


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## Tom Junior (Apr 4, 2011)

I really think it needs to re-emphasized. *Book Rooster doesn't write reviews. * What they do is distribute free copies of your book to people more likely to leave a review. You're in effect paying a publicist to give out free copies of your book.

No matter what their marketing blurbs say, we have to keep in mind.

- They don't pre-screen reviews before they're posted. (I'm actually glad they don't as I feel that would taint the review process). 
- They do ask readers to select their preferred Genres. (But given human nature, some people will undoubtedly choose incorrectly). 
- Prizes are offered as an incentive for their members to leave reviews.

Book Rooster really isn't doing anything you couldn't do yourself by using Library Thing or Good Reads. This kind of thing is tedious and I see no problem with paying someone to do it. But there is an element of risk that you're going to get some oddball reviews. However, there is no way that Book Rooster could ethically offer to 'vet' reviews before they are posted to Amazon. That would be unethical and in my opinion start to edge towards "buying 5 star reviews". I'm still really weirded out that to learn that Kirkus reviews are an overly priced paid service!


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2011)

Wow . . . I did pay them, but I didn't submit my work yet because the formatting's not done. Based on this, maybe I shouldn't submit it and just eat the loss. 

My book's already probably going to get me some 1-star reviews by nutjobs on a crusade against sex and profanity in literature --- for free! I don't need to pay for 10 more of those!


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

MichelleR said:


> If this thread had been, with the site running the exact same way, "My wonderful experience with Book Rooster," would people to rushing to cancel?


I haven't bought their service, so I wouldn't be rushing to cancel. I would just never even consider it in the first place. I can give away copies of my book to hundreds of people hoping to get reviews and increase sales. I've done that and received the results I was hoping for. Why pay someone else to do this for me?


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Erica Sloane said:


> I haven't bought their service, so I wouldn't be rushing to cancel. I would just never even consider it in the first place. I can give away copies of my book to hundreds of people hoping to get reviews and increase sales. I've done that and received the results I was hoping for. Why pay someone else to do this for me?


My thoughts exactly.


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## Beth O (Jul 9, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> On top of that, I feel the way Book Rooster presents itself is deceptive, implying that reviews are read BEFORE they're posted--and then turning around and saying they are not. Plus, their response is slow.
> 
> And: they state they will match reviewers to your genre, which they clearly do not. If someone has little or no concept of a genre, how can they review it?
> 
> If these were people who paid for the book and posted, I would have no issue. Maybe some people still think I have no issue, but I think I do. The service that was presented, is not the service I received.


Completely agree with you, Suzanne. I guess it all depends on the author's expectation going into it. If Book Rooster were truly marketing itself as a service that merely distributes books to people who want to review books, and nothing more, then authors would know going into it that there's no quality control. And by "quality control" I don't mean you're only going to get 4-star and 5-star reviews. I mean you're going to get a thoughtful and intelligent review, even if that reviewer's conclusion is "I hated this book." The kind of review a good book blogger writes.

But the Book Rooster website states: "we read every review they [reviewers] submit to keep an eye on review quality and objectivity." I think that statement implies that they are not just a "distributor" but something more. And that's why I think Suzanne had a right to expect something more.

Just my humble opinion, of course.


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

It's not just services like this, it's free review copies in general.

If I hadn't given away a bunch of copies of my first book, I'd have about 5 less 3-star reviews and about 5 less 2-star reviews on Amazon. People grab it because it's free, then feel inclined to bash it when they didn't like it with little consideration to the fact they didn't even read the short, 3-sentence description before hitting "FREE?!!! SEND ME NAOWWWW!!!"

Such is the nature of the beast. I've had much better success with selectively selecting (... lol) reviewers than I have by sending out the mass bundles of review copies to whoever raises their hand. I wish it wasn't the case, but it just goes that way more often than not.

I didn't do the same with my second or third book, and, although they have less reviews, they are clearly divided between the ones who loved them and the ones who hated them. I'd rather have that, anyway - it's a better indicator of showing you where you stand with readers (edited to add who are searching you, finding you through your marketing, and so forth.


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## csi912 (Jan 8, 2011)

So far, my experience with Bookrooster has been okay. No real problem reviews yet. However, I have begun to notice something very strange. At this point, I have received about five reviews from BR. Oddly enough, much of the word choice, issues with the book, likes and dislikes have been strikingly similar. It's just strange to me that out of five reviewers so far, they ALL reflect on how "wonderful" it is my book has no "explicit sex scenes or profanity" (in almost the exact wording) and they almost ALL state how they disliked my "abrupt ending" (which, as a side note, I make obvious at the ending that it is to be a serial that continues in the next book). 

It does concern me, however, that just one reviewer (if there indeed are multiple reviewers) who "doesn't get it" could jeopardize the sales. I have absolutely no problem with unbiased reviews. I didn't pay Bookrooster for "good" reviews. I paid them for "fair and honest" reviews. I hope I get them. But I do wish you'd had better luck with them.


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## ccjames (Jun 9, 2011)

Huh. I have been considering BookRooster, but haven't signed up yet so this thread is real interesting to me.


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## Steve Silkin (Sep 15, 2010)

Lynn ODell said:


> Whether the review was "fair" or not is just as subjective as the review itself.


I looked up the case of Roger Ebert and Tru Loved to discuss this. Here's one link.

http://blog.moviefone.com/2008/10/23/ebert-regrets-reviewing-8-minutes-of-tru-loved/

Ebert reviewed the first eight minutes. Then at the end of the review, said he walked out. This raised some controversy. First of all, his editor tried to stop him, but failed. Later, as you'll see in the link, he realized he was wrong. But I also came upon a blogger who attacked Ebert for his review of Kick-*ss, claiming it was unfair to criticize the film for being ultra-violent, bloody and gory - when that's exactly what the source material was. I think it's fair to say a review is unfair if you back up the claim with an argument: i.e., it would've been OK for Ebert to review the first eight minutes of Tru Loved *if* he had announced from the beginning that's what he was doing, rather than pulling a change-up on the reader at the end. And it's OK to say Ebert wasn't fair to Kick-*ss because he criticized the film for being what it was. Just like it's OK for Suzanne to say the review wasn't fair because it criticized her book of short stories because it was a book of short stories.

And I did read the comment saying that this person's critique could've been the result of being unsatisfied by the short stories, that they weren't fleshed out enough, that they were too short to develop themes and characters, etc. That's true, that might've been the case. And that would've been fine. And if the person had written that, that would've been fine and Suzanne would have no grounds for complaint. But that's not what the reviewer said.



csi912 said:


> At this point, I have received about five reviews from BR. Oddly enough, much of the word choice, issues with the book, likes and dislikes have been strikingly similar. It's just strange to me that out of five reviewers so far, they ALL reflect on how "wonderful" it is my book has no "explicit sex scenes or profanity" (in almost the exact wording) and they almost ALL state how they disliked my "abrupt ending" (which, as a side note, I make obvious at the ending that it is to be a serial that continues in the next book).


Good lord. They're copying and pasting in order to win prizes.



Sumatra said:


> Wow . . . I did pay them, but I didn't submit my work yet because the formatting's not done. Based on this, maybe I shouldn't submit it and just eat the loss.


Based on Pearson's post above, it seems they will refund your money. You should ask them to.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> Yes, I expected the reviews to be more professional. In other words, less of a gut reaction and, perhaps, more structured. Of course, not everyone can be a RedAdept and give a specific breakdown of a book review. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Michelle, but Lynn and her reviewers consider a number of criteria when reviewing: writing style, conventions of the genre, pace, formatting--of course, personal preference comes into play. But niether five-star reviews nor one-star reviews seem to be given lightly.
> 
> As others have pointed out, my expectations for BookRooster were unrealistic.
> 
> Thank you for your thoughts.


We do give separate ratings to components of the story and then an overall rating. That's just how one site does it though. Because there is no standard way of doing it, there will be lots of different ways people will evaluate. 1 star is virtually impossible for me to assign, I'll admit it, and would bug me too were I on the receiving end of it, but she didn't behave unethically, imo. I think the numbers game of having lots of copies out there will work in your favor and more generous reviews will drift in over time.


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## ashel (May 29, 2011)

Steve Silkin said:


> Good lord. They're copying and pasting in order to win prizes.


Tomorrow should be an interesting day at the BR offices. Or, since it's a start up, possibly today already is?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Erica Sloane said:


> I haven't bought their service, so I wouldn't be rushing to cancel. I would just never even consider it in the first place. I can give away copies of my book to hundreds of people hoping to get reviews and increase sales. I've done that and received the results I was hoping for. Why pay someone else to do this for me?


Time. If it saves me two hours of effort, it's money in the bank. Especially since they are people who are already proactively interested in reviewing.

The question is not whether it's worth the money over doing it yourself. IMHO, that's a no-brainer. Doing it yourself takes time and effort and planning which I will never get back.

The question is whether it's worth doing at all: by yourself OR through Book Rooster. And since Book Rooster is much cheaper than doing it myself (given my hourly wage) I think that for me, at least, Book Rooster is a better way to test out the waters than doing it myself. If I don't like the results, I'm not going to bother with doing it myself.

But... I know that every review is good for you. If I were to get 20 one-star reviews out of this, I would have to day "O-kay. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea. What the heck happened with this?" But a few whacky reviews are completely normal and often enhance the reader's picture of the book.

Camille


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

daringnovelist said:


> Time. If it saves me two hours of effort, it's money in the bank. Especially since they are people who are already proactively interested in reviewing.
> 
> The question is not whether it's worth the money over doing it yourself. IMHO, that's a no-brainer. Doing it yourself takes time and effort and planning which I will never get back.
> 
> ...


Not sure I get that. Another thing that requires time and effort and planning that you will never get back is writing. But you put in the time and effort and planning in the hopes that it will pay off (personally, economically, or both). By the same token, you could say that paying someone to do what you can do yourself, for free, is money you will never get back.

But in both cases, you're doing it with the idea that it will pay off, right? So why not invest time rather than money? To me, putting in money is more of a risky way to test the waters than putting in an hour or so per day.

The other reason I think doing it yourself is preferable is that you get to interact with potential readers, minus the unnecessary middle-man stuff. That helps build readership, in my view. Plus, the direct interaction is one of the more appealing aspects of being an indie author.

I understand that everyone has their own preferences and their own methods. There's really no right or wrong way. I respect anybody who does what we're all doing. I just don't see any benefit in this particular service.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Erica Sloane said:


> Not sure I get that. Another thing that requires time and effort and planning that you will never get back is writing. But you put in the time and effort and planning in the hopes that it will pay off (personally, economically, or both). By the same token, you could say that paying someone to do what you can do yourself, for free, is money you will never get back.
> 
> But in both cases, you're doing it with the idea that it will pay off, right? So why not invest time rather than money? To me, putting in money is more of a risky way to test the waters than putting in an hour or so per day.
> 
> The other reason I think doing it yourself is preferable is that you get to interact with potential readers. That helps build readership, in my view.


Erica: I can always make more money. Time gone is time lost forever.

An hour gone is at least 500 words I'll never get the chance to write. Any time I'm not spending on writing is a WASTE and needs to be spend a frugally as possible. You've got to look at your time in terms of what better you could do with it. I keep my day job hours to a minimum so I can write. Any activity which takes time away from writing has to be weighed against whether I could earn the money to pay someone to do it in less time than I could do it.

It's simple math: Getting a book to hundreds of reviewers would take hours of planning, hours of flogging, and then the mailing and the mislaid emails, and the mistaken email addresses, and the wrong formats... Or I could do two hours at the day job, and hand the whole mess over to someone else to do and save myself hours and hours to write.

It makes no sense at all to destroy hundreds of dollars worth of income just to save $50 -- and to waste that on a gamble? No way. Either I don't do it at all, or I pay them to do it.

And even if I didn't have a good day job, there are MUCH better things I could be doing with my time. I mean, in the time it takes to do all that flogging for reviews, I could write a novelette, and earn at least $5 a month on it for years. And I don't do it, I will never get that time back, and that money simply won't be there. Anything I write later could still be written later.

It's called "opportunity cost" and it's one of the biggest mistake young entrepreneurs make: they think time is free, so they spend the resource on frivolous things -- like marketing -- and neglect the actual asset building.

When something like book rooster comes up, the questions are this: is it worth doing at all? Can I afford the cost (in time or money)?

Even if you're unemployed, time is a valuable resource. It may be better not to do it at all if you can't afford the money. If you can afford the money, then you assess whether you want to gamble on it.

Camille


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Time. If it saves me two hours of effort, it's money in the bank. Especially since they are people who are already proactively interested in reviewing.
> 
> The question is not whether it's worth the money over doing it yourself. IMHO, that's a no-brainer. Doing it yourself takes time and effort and planning which I will never get back.
> 
> ...


I agree. it's my understanding that you pay for the distribution of your manuscript to potential reviewers, not the reviews themselves. Hopefully the company will clarify this on their website a bit better now, and state that they will not take responsibility for the "quality" of the reviews (that would be pretty unethical anyway) merely the number of reviews promised.


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## RW Bennett (Mar 3, 2011)

One of the issues with Book Roosters is the reviewers receive the book for free. Since my time is valuable, I choose to buy and read books that I select with a certain amount of care. I check out the cover, read the description carefully (it's usually a good indicator of the author's ability to write), read some reviews and maybe even a sample. In other words, I'm predisposed to like the book because liking it validates my purchase decision. Thus for books I like, I tend to rate it even higher.

On the other hand, if I don't like the purchased book, my expectations aren't met and I feel a little duped into having purchased an inferior book and my disappointment may cause me to rate a book I don't like even lower. This doesn't happen too often.

Many reviewers of free books, especially if they are unfamiliar with the author, may lack the incentive to fully invest the effort to fully evaluate a book, resulting in more three star reviews.

Having said that, I see nothing wrong with Book Roosters' business model, and think they provide a useful service. Free books in the hands of readers is still valid. I am currently offering a giveaway on Library Thing and have done giveaways on Goodreads. I figure the more books in the hand of more readers, the better.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

RW Bennett said:


> One of the issues with Book Roosters is the reviewers receive the book for free. Since my time is valuable, I choose to buy and read books that I select with a certain amount of care. I check out the cover, read the description carefully (it's usually a good indicator of the author's ability to write), read some reviews and maybe even a sample. In other words, I'm predisposed to like the book because liking it validates my purchase decision. Thus for books I like, I tend to rate it even higher.
> 
> On the other hand, if I don't like the purchased book, my expectations aren't met and I feel a little duped into having purchased an inferior book and my disappointment may cause me to rate a book I don't like even lower. This doesn't happen too often.
> 
> ...


I used to do professional reviewing (well, academically professional, so it wasn't a paid position -- we were paid in academically-correct bylines, books, and a copy of the $100 reference annual). That was a situation which often took the best of both worlds in terms of free and purchased, etc.

It was a heavy library tome called the Science Fiction Review Annual, which aimed to cover every single book published in the genre every year. (This was long before self-publishing was viable, but small presses were included. And the situation was extremely different than Book Rooster because SFRA was the actual publisher of the reviews, so they held us to account, and also rewarded the best quality reviewers with more books and bylines.)

Anyway -- publishers sent them most books for free, and they distributed them. But at the end of the year, there were always a bunch of books which weren't covered, and usually these weren't the small press books, but the big bestsellers which didn't need reviews from a scholarly reference book. So they'd send out a list of every book they'd missed, and we'd all scramble around trying to find copies -- at libraries, or used, or on our own bookshelves already, or you might go out and buy one yourself because you wanted the byline. (And because it was the year of first publication, this always meant hardbacks.)

I can't really say that it ever made a difference whether I got the book free or had to run out and find it. Yes, the end of the year rush did mean that we would often be reviewing a book outside our area which we did pay for ourselves. But honestly, once the book is in my hands, the acquisition mode is forgotten.

You could say "yeah, but that was a professional environment, with standards" but you know, I was just a college student, and it was my first real publishing job working with an editor. I don't know that I could have been considered more than an enthusiastic reader who was happy to get free books and a byline.

I will say this though, I do think receiving free books -- preferably with an assignment -- feels more like a real job. I do think, also, that when you feel like you're doing it as a professional job, you are more likely to be more critical. So in that sense, I agree with RW that if you're doing it on your own, for fun, you will be more likely to give the 5-stars or 1-star reviews.

Camille


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## Jeff Tompkins (Sep 17, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> It's simple math: Getting a book to hundreds of reviewers would take hours of planning, hours of flogging, and then the mailing and the mislaid emails, and the mistaken email addresses, and the wrong formats... Or I could do two hours at the day job, and hand the whole mess over to someone else to do and save myself hours and hours to write.


Gotta jump in here.

Why would you do it that way in the first place? You announce it on your blog, on someone else's blog (with their permission, of course), on Goodreads, just about anywhere you want. You make the book free on Smashwords and end it when the free downloads hit the number you wanted to give away.

Easy.

That's what I did. It didn't take hours of planning, flogging, or sending "mislaid emails," or wrong formats...none of that.

I probably spent a total of 30 minutes on the promo. I saw a jump in sales that lasted a good week. My ranking has dropped since, but I can directly attribute about 75 sales (roughly $150) to that 30 minutes of promo work. I estimate the 75 because that's how many more I sold than the norm.

So it was a case of simple math in my case. Spend $50 or make $150.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Jeff Tompkins said:


> Gotta jump in here.
> 
> Why would you do it that way in the first place? You announce it on your blog, on someone else's blog (with their permission, of course), on Goodreads, just about anywhere you want. You make the book free on Smashwords and end it when the free downloads hit the number you wanted to give away.


We're not a talking about a book giveaway here. I do those all the time, and yeah, I am absolutely sold on those. They work.

We're talking about targeting and recruiting reviewers, which is a different thing. (Especially if you consider you really only want to do something like this for a book which doesn't sell itself via genre and concept -- a hard sell. That's the only sort of book you need reviews for.) I see people with a million crap 5-star reviews which sound like sock puppets. It's easy to get those and I don't want them, (and you're going to get more of them if the book is coming to the reviewer from YOU). I also don't want to deal with book-grabbers who keep contacting me for more free books when they haven't even opened the first one yet, either.

Also, I think you're overlooking an awful lot of time and effort investment in something like Goodreads itself -- just to be in a position to make that casual announcement. If you're going to do a Goodreads giveaway, don't they have rules? You've got to read the rules. You're overlooking the learning curve. It's "easy" for people who are already heavily invested in promotion anyway, sure. But it's only because of other investements you've made.

Here's the thing: I'm not convinced that what Book Rooster does is worth the effort, so I'm not saying that people should run out and spend money on this.

What I'm saying is that if it's not worth my money, it sure as heck is not worth my time or any mindspace at all. I'm may be willing to gamble $50 on finding out. I'm not willing to gamble with time I'll never get back unless I am convinced there is a real benefit.

Camille


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

It's also possible BookRooster is violating the Amazon Terms of Service and at some point any or all of those reviews could be removed if they were traced to a prize giveaway.

http://www.teleread.com/amazon/a-shot-across-the-bow-by-meredith-greene/

Reviewers shouldn't receive compensation (which a prize drawing would be) besides a free product being reviewed. Of course, the policy is unevenly applied, as is everything with Amazon. But one could also imagine an unhappy camper filing a complaint with Amazon (like, that would NEVER happen, right?)


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## RobynB (Jan 4, 2011)

My sense is BR is working out the kinks, which I can appreciate since it's a new service. In fact, it seems like BR is already addressing some of the issues in this thread. To wit, I received another review from a BR reviewer this weekend, and she ended the review with this line: "I received a free copy of Forgotten April for Kindle from Bookrooster.com and agreed to do a review. No other compensation or conditions were involved."

So far, I'm happy with the service overall. I've now received a variety of reviews (3, 4, and 5 stars) and they were well written and insightful (some of the 5s probably should have been 4s, but I imagine the reviewers are going through a learning curve as well -- I'm not complaining, just observing. Then again, maybe they really felt it deserved a 5. Who knows?).

I use the service for precisely the reasons that Camille has noted throughout this thread: I outsource lots of tasks (including file conversions) because I'd rather use the time elsewhere. Also, if I can bill more money per hour in my day job (I'm a freelance marketing copywriter), then it makes sense for me to outsource those services where I'd lose money if I did it myself. Meaning, if it takes me two hours to do what BR does (I'm using a fictional number here, but I know it would take me probably that long, due to the learning curve Camille mentions above), then I would _lose_ money, because I can bill those two hours at a higher rate in my day job.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

RobynB said:


> My sense is BR is working out the kinks, which I can appreciate since it's a new service.
> 
> ...reviewers are going through a learning curve as well...
> 
> I use the service for precisely the reasons that Camille has noted throughout this thread: I outsource lots of tasks (including file conversions) because I'd rather use the time elsewhere. Also, if I can bill more money per hour in my day job (I'm a freelance marketing copywriter), then it makes sense for me to outsource those services where I'd lose money if I did it myself.


Yes, yes, and yes. I also took Book Rooster up on their discount package for my novel, for the reasons mentioned above, and I've been very happy with the results. If I'd gotten a stupid 1 or 2 star review, I suppose I'd be less impressed, but I got what I wanted, which was an increase in the number of reviews I had (from 8 to now 17), showing a variety of opinions and reactions to the book.

I had previously tried getting reviews via a Smashwords freebie--gave away hundreds of books, got 2 reviews, and both were on Smashwords, not Amazon. I also put in _a lot_ of time tracking down book bloggers and requesting reviews. After sending dozens of carefully crafted, individualized emails over a period of months, I think I ended up with 2 or 3 reviews. Moreover, all of them were the long, critical type reviews you'd expect from a professional/semi-professional reviewer. Nothing wrong with that, but I wanted to see more reviews from people that potential readers could identify with, reviews written by the average Joe. That's what the Book Rooster reviews look like: they're grammatically imperfect and focus on the reader's emotional reaction to the book, rather than offering a scholarly analysis.

I do think BR has some kinks to work out, and she will have to stay on top of her reviewers to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to, but I knew going in that it was a new service, so I didn't expect perfection. In a nutshell, I got good value for my money (about an hour at the day job), and so would recommend the service to anyone looking for the same things.

--Maria


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2011)

Suzanne, if it makes you feel any better, at least your one star is a bit more coherent than this one I got a while back on an issue of the Bards and Sages Quarterly.



> DULL. i THOUGHT IT WOULD CONTAIN ALL KINDS OF STORIES BUT ITS ONLY ABOUT BORING ENGLISH WRITERS.


Now, I'm not really sure what kind of stories he was expecting, but he seemed rather upset that they were all English writers. Which isn't exactly true. Only a couple of the writers were English. Most were American and a few were Canadian. 

The issue is not the quality of the reviews OR if Book Rooster should be charging. The issue is IF you are going to charge a fee for providing a service, you have an obligation to make sure the service meets certain minimum expectations. In this case, Book Rooster should have an obligation to vet reviewers better and not just accept everyone who signs up to mooch free books. A person who reviews a short story collection and does not realize it is a short story collection has no business being involved in a formal review service. If Book Rooster is going to charge authors for a service that can be done for free on Goodreads or Librarything, then they have an obligation to vet the reviewers BEFORE giving them books to review. After the fact the damage is already done.


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## kurzon (Feb 26, 2011)

I put two books through Book Rooster.  Before doing so, I read their information both for authors and for reviewers because I wanted to be sure it wasn't a pay-for-good-reviews site.  The "For reviewers" section made it quite clear to me that the reviews would be posted before any vetting was done (since they talk about how to send a link to your review after you post it), but they don't explicitly state that, or discuss that they have no control over getting 'inappropriate' reviews removed.

I felt that the website was a little sparse on detail and could do with a FAQ, but overall it seemed worthwhile.  I've run several Goodreads giveaways, and have found that the percentage of reviews returned is very low.

The two books I submitted were "The Silence of Medair" (high fantasy, and a finalist for an award) and "Stray" (young adult space adventure, and in diary format).

"Medair" is still collecting its reviews, but has so far gained three 5 star and four 4 star from Book Rooster reviewers.  They have all been thoughtful and clear on what they liked about the book.

"Stray" has accumulated ten Book Rooster reviews.  One 5 star, six 4 star (though one forgot to mention it was a free copy, I'm guessing that this was a Book Rooster reviewer), one 3 star, and two 1 star.  Most of these reviews have been quite detailed about what they liked and disliked about the book.

Of the two 1 star reviews, one gave it 1 star for the diary format, which just did not work for this reader.  I consider this a useful review, as diary format is something which is just not going to work for everyone, and this will certainly foreground that it is in diary format.

The other 1 star review is somewhat problematic, since it clearly states that it is based only on the first line of the book, and that the reviewer refuses to read any further, and believes that young adult books should not contain swearing.  Now, while this is a problematic review in that it is based only on the first line of the book, and it sadly brings down my rating overall, it's quite a useful review in telling any other readers who believe that "young adults" should not read books with swearing, that there is swearing in the book (only three or four instances of it, but one happens to be in the first line).

Of course I'm not overwhelmingly happy at the effect on the book's rating, but I don't intend to ask Amazon to remove these reviews, since I think they better guide readers coming to the book.

I did, however, suggest in my feedback to Book Rooster that they add a new filter option of "clean content only", so reviewers can avoid books with swearing or explicit sex if that's their wish.

Overall, I'm happy with the service.  I think they need to add more information to their site, make the process clearer, and especially add more categories, but they've given a fair example of the kind of reviews I would expect for my books, including the fact that diary format just won't work for some people, and for others, teenagers don't swear.  If there hadn't been the possibility of negative reviews, I would never have used them in the first place.

I think I'd find the OP's experience particularly frustrating, because it seems to be based on reader incomprehension - but it's the same kind of reader incomprehension you might encounter for a random sale-and-review.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2011)

kurzon said:


> I think I'd find the OP's experience particularly frustrating, because it seems to be based on reader incomprehension - but it's the same kind of reader incomprehension you might encounter for a random sale-and-review.


The difference is that in the case of a random sale, you did not pay for a service that promised competent reviews from qualified reviewers. Therein is the root of the problem. The second money exchanges hands, the side accepting payment has an obligation to make sure that those reviewing the books have a bare minimum comprehension of what they are doing. Paying for a service and getting an incompetent review is not the same as a random customer buying your book and leaving a review like that.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The difference is that in the case of a random sale, you did not pay for a service that promised competent reviews from qualified reviewers. Therein is the root of the problem. The second money exchanges hands, the side accepting payment has an obligation to make sure that those reviewing the books have a bare minimum comprehension of what they are doing. Paying for a service and getting an incompetent review is not the same as a random customer buying your book and leaving a review like that.


I think this one's been pretty much beat to death, but just for the record, I disagree that the reviewer was incompetent. I don't believe he/she misunderstood the nature of the book. The specific complaint was this:
"...the stories were too short, disjointed and unfortunately just not as fun as it could have been."

That sounds to me like they knew the book was a collection of stories, but simply felt they were TOO short and didn't enjoy them. That sounds like a negative review, but not an unfair or uneducated one.


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## Steve Silkin (Sep 15, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> The reviewer complained that the stories were too short (I list the word count) and not sequential (they're stand-alone short stories, not linked).





meromana said:


> I think this one's been pretty much beat to death, but just for the record, I disagree that the reviewer was incompetent. I don't believe he/she misunderstood the nature of the book. The specific complaint was this: "...the stories were too short, disjointed and unfortunately just not as fun as it could have been."
> 
> That sounds to me like they knew the book was a collection of stories, but simply felt they were TOO short and didn't enjoy them. That sounds like a negative review, but not an unfair or uneducated one.


Thank you, meromana, you're right. By not quoting 'just not as fun' Suzanne omitted an important element; the reviewer, in fact, did back up (however minimally) why the book did not meet her expectations. I would not have said most of the things I said if I had known that. Mea culpa. I was interested to learn, tangentially, that there is a copy-and-paste issue at Bookrooster, though.


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## mathmom (Apr 14, 2009)

Hi,

I'm a new (I guess we are all new at this point) Book Rooster reviewer and I thought I might be able to clarify some points about how the process looks from the reviewer's end.  I will say that I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread, so if some of this has been said already, I apologize for the repetition.  

(As an aside, as far as I can tell, they have gotten rid of the prizes.  I do remember seeing the advertising that one could win prizes by submitting reviews, but I was personally motivated by the incentive of free books.  And I don't see any reference to prizes anywhere on the bookrooster site anymore.)

When a reviewer signs up to review books, we get to check off which genres we like.  I only picked genres I actually like -- why would I want free books in other genres that I don't enjoy?

Since June 16th I've been invited to review 12 books.  Each invitation includes the cover art, the book description, and a link to the free sample material available from Amazon. If you're interested, you click a link in the email and fill in your reviewer ID and you might or might not (depending on how many people actually respond, I assume) get a copy of the book a couple of days later.  I've received 6 books to review in that time.  (I'm not sure if I requested any that I didn't receive or not, as I haven't kept careful track of that.)  Of course they can't "force" you to read the description, but it is given to the reviewer before they even choose to review the book.

They include an instruction that I believe does bias the reviews toward good reviews: "Remember, only review books you have read in full.  If you don't want to finish a book you have received to review, of course that's fine -- in that case, just skip the review."  -- IME some of the most scathing reviews I've seen on Amazon as a buyer have been of the "this book was so bad I couldn't even bear to finish it..." variety, and bookrooster reviewers are discouraged from submitting reviews at all in that case.  Interestingly, that instruction has encouraged me to request more books than I reasonably expect to find time to read, since to me it says that I can try a book out and quit without guilt if I don't want to finish it. 

However, once the book is in a reader's hands, there is nothing bookrooster can do to prevent the reader from posting a bad/unfair/stupid review on Amazon, since the site is open to all.  Even if they read the review in advance and told the user not to post it, the user could still post it.  (And if Amazon customers felt that bookrooster reviews were pre-screened, they might automatically discount them as reviews worth caring about.)  So the only thing BR can do to improve the calibre of reviews that get posted is to stop sending books to poor reviewers.  But a reviewer would need to put up at least a couple of bad reviews (by which I mean not low-star-ratings, but didn't read the book, didn't understand the genre, didn't write enough, etc.) before BR can judge them as a poor reviewer.

One thing I do think would help with people offering to review books in genres they don't like or aren't familiar with, or even just books within a wide genre they like that aren't their cup of tea, would be to increase the "cost" to the reviewer of accepting a book.  If they told reviewers something like, you will only be given 1 free book per week, I might hesitate more before accepting a book where I think "ya maybe", in case I would miss out on something better the next day.  If there were a cost to accepting the book (like losing out on future offers for some amount of time) then I would spend more time deciding, maybe download the free sample first (something I have never done yet) etc.  In that way I think they would more closely simulate a group of readers who might otherwise have chosen to spend money on the book -- readers who really want to read the book, as opposed to readers who are thinking, "what the heck, it's free".  (Another alternative would be to offer a reviewer, say, 5 books to choose from, and they can only choose one.  Same idea -- they would want to think more about which book they really want out of the lot, instead of just saying, sure, give them all to me and I'll read as many as I get around to, and if I'm bored, I might even read books I don't care for that much...)


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

mathmom,

Thank you so much for your very informative post. I completely agree that BR would be wise to impose some sort of limit/restriction.

Really appreciate your post.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Welcome Mathmom,
Thanks for your explanation.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> You're right, Jason, in hind sight it was a bad move. I'd just received several nasty one-star reviews (*one, I believe, from a guy I dated*), and I'd hoped to generate some objective reviews through Book Rooster.


Oh, Suzanne... I'm so sorry. I laughed. But it was a horrified laugh, the kind that's usually accompanied by "Nooo..." I'd bring you a margarita if I were there


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## ashel (May 29, 2011)

Mathmom, that's great info. Thanks for that. Seems like BR will be tweaking their service for a while until they get it right.


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## Nick Fox (Oct 26, 2010)

Looking at this from BookRooster's perspective, I totally get why they don't have a ranking system and why they don't want to read/alter reviews once they've been posted. How many writers would they have to argue with about what was objective? How many writers would classify what was written about them as unfair? And BookRooster is supposed to be the arbiter of this argument between reviewer/writer about a book they haven't even read? I don't think so. 

How long before a writer says something like "The reviewer gave me one star because he said the writing was terrible and my prose was chock full of adverbs and typos." And the writer may respond with "My critique group says my writing is good, I only counted an average of 3 adverbs per page, and my editor should have caught all my typos! This is an unfair review, take it down." Who is BookRooster supposed to believe in this instance, especially with something as subjective as writing quality. 

In my mind, if you sign up for BookRooster, you're signing up to get reviews, not necessarily competent/well-written ones. If you take the approach that out of 10 reviews, 7 out of 10 should be positive (based on the quality of your work), then in the long run it shouldn't be an issue. But in my opinion, you really can't expect BookRooster to vet its reviewers, who is clearly only knows through online dealings. It's not like they've interviewed these people; they need reviewers for their site to work.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi MathMom, thank you for the thoughtful explanation--and welcome to KB. I think you have some good ideas, regarding BR. 

@ Akali...yes, I'm quite sure one of my not-so-stellar reviews was written by the guy who inspired the title story of Dating My Vibrator. (Of course, I changed his name, but I'm sure he recognized himself.) I hadn't heard from #@$% in over a year, but on the day the review was posted he just happened to post on my Facebook wall as well...one of those things you have to subscribe to: see what #@$% has to say about Suzanne (I don't think so.) I guess #@$% finally got around to reading the book.    

BTW, I'd love that Marguerita, but I'm all doped up due to my accident. I'll take you up on that soon, though! 

Life, without it, what would we write and/or read about?


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## Lynn Mixon (Jan 2, 2011)

JerriLincoln said:


> Amazon has lists of their top five hundred reviewers.


Might I ask for a link to that? I looked a while back and had no luck finding such a list.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Terry Mixon said:


> Might I ask for a link to that? I looked a while back and had no luck finding such a list.


http://www.amazon.com/review/top-reviewers/ref=cm_cr_tr_link_1


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## James Bruno (Mar 15, 2011)

Since reading about BR on Joe Konrath's blog, I've kept it in mind as I publish my latest novel.  This very useful thread convinces me to remain on the fence, however, and BR's jacking up their fee from $49.99 to $67 keeps me firmly emplaced on the fence.  Two of my previous books have been on multiple paid Kindle genre bestseller lists for months now, which gives me confidence for the prospects of my latest release.  I'm fortunate to have received good reviews (with a couple of exceptions) from the vast readership out there on my earlier books, but I want to boost the number of reviews for the third book. Contacting Amazon top reviewers directly (when possible) has gotten me nowhere. I like the suggestion made earlier here of scanning book blogs for potential reviewers, but I don't know how to quite do that.  My attitude is that when writing and publishing your stuff, as with all artistic endeavors, you're willingly putting your ego on the line.  Let the chips fall where they may and keep a thick skin.

As for BookRooster, they're new and unproven at this point.  I, for one, will let 6-12 months pass and then assess their track record and whether they could be useful for me.


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

Like Mathmom I am also one of the voluntary reviewers @ Bookrooster.com. We choose which genre we would like to read, we receive invites, which include long blurbs, the link to download a sample from Amazon (if we aren't sure if it will be our cup of tea) and some authors (especially sci-fi/fantasy include website links to blogs so we can understand the fantasy worlds we are entering. Even then we are clearly told that it is our choice and are not obliged to pick or review something that we feel won't interest us. Bookrooster states clearly that it is a community of booklovers that review, not professional reviewers/bloggers. Not every author has negative experiences. An author wants to raise the profile of their book via the review system and ratings, and that depends on the book and the story within said book. I know of one writer who stopped the distribution of her book on Bookrooster when her rating (an average of 4 stars) was affected by reviewers giving lower stars, because the book wasn't rated as well as she thought it would be. It really depends on whether the writer has the conviction to stand by what they have written and I am not saying there is no such thing as a vindictive negative review (absolutely),but the majority of us try and be honest about our reading experience. That might not produce the prolific literary works of genius the writer is hoping for, but then again none of us are getting anything other than a few good reads from the experience.


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## tkmurphy (Apr 21, 2011)

Nice to know the reader/reviewer's perspective. That is what I was looking for, when I shipped off my first book last month. I was trying to send my second book yesterday and was worried when I couldn't connect to the site. But the site is back up and I submitted my second book.

My close circle does not read my genre at all . So I really couldn't ask them to review something that they would normally never read. I am really looking forward to it. Good or bad, at least some feedback would be nice!


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

foreverjuly said:


> As for Book Rooster, I have no idea why these relatively high-profile people think it's a good idea. There are plenty of ways to find reviewers without dropping $50.


That's what I've wondered from the start. I much prefer giving my book away for free to actual review blogs or doing a giveaway. It's 100% free.


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi tkmurphy, I am only speaking for myself,but I find it hard to believe that readers would pick a genre they hate , to review. I have received over 30 books since signing up  (and i haven't accepted invations of books I knew I wouldn't find interesting) and reviewed 29. I have discovered some truly exceptional writers in the process (and in general since buying my Kindle). Most are open to constructive comments (sometimes when it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...it is just a duck ergo if 15 readers say the same thing then maybe they have a point) others are less open and react to each negative review as if it is a personal attack. I can understand both scenarios, especially when someone has spent months or years writing and completing a piece of work they often view as an extension to their inner soul. Sometimes I wish I could transport the feeling that a certain book left me with, to the author, convey how superb I thought it was, but it is really hard to do that in reviews.


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

Last but not least I have just got to say that I can't believe how many authors on this site and others complain about the quality of the "normal" readers review as opposed to the professional reviewers review, who on earth do they think are their potential customers? The consumer book world does not consist of millions of professional reviewers, they are people just like me. A person who loves to read.


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## mikelewis (May 31, 2011)

I used Book Rooster when they first started for Changers Summer and I found the reviews I received very fair and helpful.  Changers now has 12 reviews on amazon, a mix of 5, 4 and 3 star reviews.

I even received a review from Cheryl, I think?

Mike


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2011)

Cheryl M-M said:


> Last but not least I have just got to say that I can't believe how many authors on this site and others complain about the quality of the "normal" readers review as opposed to the professional reviewers review, who on earth do they think are their potential customers? The consumer book world does not consist of millions of professional reviewers, they are people just like me. A person who loves to read.


Yes. This is definitely a good point. I think the best option is to realize that readers are at their full liberty to post as much or as little as they are inclined to do so. It's all about what the book motivates people to write, and so it's best for us authors to accept that without feeling like everyone needs to justify their opinion over several pages of explanation.

Welcome to the site, Cheryl!


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

@Mikelewis...yes it was the environmental sci-fi with time travel element wasn't it? I thought it was very in tune with issues we may have to deal with sooner rather than later.


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

@foreverjuly ty for the welcome and I believe i have read and reviewed at least four of yours, but those I bought myself.


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## Eric C (Aug 3, 2009)

I've used Book Rooster for one of my books. No complaints.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm scheduled with BookRooster on 8/15. It's going to be interesting to see what the reviewers say, because hopefully it will be a fairly good sample of reviews. Of course, that's what I'm saying now. 

But I am really looking forward to hearing from some fantasy readers who don't know me at all.


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## J.G. McKenney (Apr 16, 2011)

Invitations to read _Eon's Door_ went out last week, and I get an update next week. I'm really eager to see some reviews; I've only received one for the book so far. It was a very positive review from The LL Book Review, but nothing's been cross-posted on Amazon--yet. I've tried to take the high road, refusing to ask readers from my inner circle to post reviews, preferring to test the book with readers who have no prior knowledge of it. I think I've written something good; I'm hoping the Book Rooster reviewers will give it some legs.


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## libbyfh (Feb 11, 2010)

No real complaints here, either... although I did get one 2 star review.


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

Not everyone comes out of a read with the same experience, which is the same as reading poetry or discussing art. I have just read a thriller called "Before her Eyes by R.Forster", and I really enjoyed it. However another reviewer didn't like the way the writer had focused on the emotions of the main characters, two completely opposite opinions from the same book. In essence, after all the marketing (and I do feel for you) you want a reader to not only like your book and remember your name,  but also want them to buy your next book. Using Jason Letts as an example, I read Amanda Hocking (before the world discovered her talent   ) and noticed they had worked together so I picked up (actually Kindle zapped it) the first in Powerless series. I liked it and wanted to know what would happen next and subsequently bought others. There are more than fair few whose sequels or next books I will be looking out for, so Bookrooster has created a buying customer for those authors, whether intentionally or not and I am sure I am not the only one. I have even shared info on unknown authors and their books with friends/family FB, when I have had a great reading experience. That is the way the more subtle marketing ball actually rolls into the land of consumers.


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## mikelewis (May 31, 2011)

Cheryl M-M said:


> @Mikelewis...yes it was the environmental sci-fi with time travel element wasn't it? I thought it was very in tune with issues we may have to deal with sooner rather than later.


Yes, that's right

thanks
Mike


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## I.J.Parker (Jul 28, 2011)

I've just had the experience of not being able to contract for reviews with them.  Apparently they don't accept piracy-protected files.  I'm now wondering if they'll collect $ 67.00 (yes, the price has gone up) from my credit card anyway.
Glad I found this thread.  This was an experiment for me.  I shall also get my reviews elsewhere, Joe Konrath's endorsement notwithstanding.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

I.J.Parker said:


> Apparently they don't accept piracy-protected files.


Hate to break it to you, but many readers won't read afile with DRM on it. It's not because they want to pirate it, but because it's cumbersome for using on their own devices, even when they're a legitimate customer.

DRM was a good idea in theory, but a terrible idea in practice. It does absolutely nothing to deter pirates, who tend to have the hacking skills to get around it anyway. All it does is frustrate legitimate customers.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Cheryl M-M said:


> Last but not least I have just got to say that I can't believe how many authors on this site and others complain about the quality of the "normal" readers review as opposed to the professional reviewers review, who on earth do they think are their potential customers? The consumer book world does not consist of millions of professional reviewers, they are people just like me. A person who loves to read.


Thanks for posting, Cheryl. And welcome to KB.

I'd just like to reiterate: I posted about Book Rooster, because the service they presented seemed different than the service I received.


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## Cheryl M-M (Aug 3, 2011)

@Suzanne thank you for the welcome and I completely understand your point of view. You writers have to spend so much time trying to get your books out there, I don't when you find the time to write.
I think someone should do some research or a survey on whether a potential buyer is more likely to buy after reading a professional review or a normal readers review. (leaving cover, title and blurb out of the equation for now). I don't read the professional ones or the really long ones that repeat book content. We were having a similar discussion on the Amazon uk kindle forum.


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

I missed this thread the first time around.

Honestly, I found nothing unfair about Suzanne's 1-star review, and don't understand why anyone interpreted it as being from a reader who didn't understand that they were reading a short story collection. She understood. She simply felt the stories were "too short". Quite frankly, I might feel the same way about 9 short stories at 15k words. It's a totally valid opinion. "Disjointed" and "not very fun" are also totally valid opinions.

I honestly don't know what Book Rooster could do to prevent "inadequate" reviews from being posted. I also don't know how they could objectively decide what constitutes an "inadequate" review.

It's an interesting service. I'm not 100% comfortable with the concept, but at the same time, I don't think it's particularly unethical or problematic. Personally, my biggest hesitation in paying for this service would be the fear that soliciting reviewers who aren't necessarily drawn to my book could result in a spate of reviews from dispassionate readers. This is a potential consequence that seems fairly obvious to me, so it really just comes down to deciding whether I'm willing to pay for reviews at any cost. People who already have a fair number of reviews are probably silly to use this service. New authors who aren't sure how to get their books into the hands of readers--or who are impatient--might find more value in it. Still, reviews (and reviewers) are unpredictable and, by nature, wholly subjective. An author must always pursue reviews at their own risk.


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

Cheryl M-M said:


> I don't read the professional ones or the really long ones that repeat book content.


I know two people is hardly a definitive sampling, but I'll add my "ditto" to the above. I no longer read the "pro" reviews, not only do I not trust them, but most of the time I think they review to fads, rather than to good writing. I also skip the reviews (reader OR pro) that spend most of the review repeating the blurb, or delivering a synopsis.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

StaceyHH said:


> I know two people is hardly a definitive sampling, but I'll add my "ditto" to the above. I no longer read the "pro" reviews, not only do I not trust them, but most of the time I think they review to fads, rather than to good writing. I also skip the reviews (reader OR pro) that spend most of the review repeating the blurb, or delivering a synopsis.


I'll make it three and that should be enough to call ourselves an institute.

Up with reviews from schmoes! Long may the schmoes live!


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

Cheryl M-M said:


> I think someone should do some research or a survey on whether a potential buyer is more likely to buy after reading a professional review or a normal readers review. (leaving cover, title and blurb out of the equation for now). I don't read the professional ones or the really long ones that repeat book content. We were having a similar discussion on the Amazon uk kindle forum.


I've read a study about this somewhere, and they found a majority of the customers did prefer reviews written by non-professional reviewers because they could more easily relate to the reviewer's thoughts. I can't remember where I read this report, and I don't even think it was for book reviews, but I wish I could to link it here.


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## R.E. McDermott (Feb 16, 2011)

I contracted Book Rooster in early July as a result of the endorsement on Joe Konrath's blog. Copies of my thriller Deadly Straits went out in July with an update due from BR this week. So far, I've gotten 2 reviews, a 5-star and a 1-star (go figure). Of course, I'm in complete agreement with the reviewer who found me 'brilliant' and dubious about the lady that thought me 'boring.'

I share some of Susan's frustration, and the above is not meant to be sarcastic. My understanding of the BR service was that they matched the book with reviewers who like and read the genre. Like Susan, my initial reaction to the 1-star was that the reviewer wasn't really the right audience for my book. After all, 'thriller' is an almost impossibly broad designation, and a reader who enjoys say psychological thrillers probably isn't really the right reader for a book that's much more of an action/adventure/techno-thriller like Deadly Straits. I figured the book had gone to the 'wrong' reviewer. Then I thought about that a little.

I decided perhaps my own expectations for BR were a bit unrealistic (mind you, I'm talking about myself here, and no one else). I doubt BR is a huge, well-oiled machine. I suspect that Ms. MacDonald does what we all do, in that she attempts to identify likely readers and then offers them books which she hopes will suit their tastes. In return they agree to do reviews. Because she is centralizing the effort, there are economies of scale. Theoretically at least, because she is a source of free books, she can attract all these potential readers more readily than any of us could individually. 

But I suspect that reader tastes are self-reported, so the matches won't always be perfect. As far as 'policing,' the reviews go, I think that task would be tantamount to herding cats. If a bad actor shows up, she can certainly eliminate them, but I doubt she can control what they post. It seems to me, trying to implement that type of control would kind of defeat the purpose of 'independent reviews.' As far as the fee goes, I don't think it's unreasonable, given that she commits to keep plugging until the author has garnered 10 reviews. Personally, I wouldn't undertake that task for someone else for 49 bucks (at least, that's what I paid).

Anyway, that's the view of a complete newbie.*

Bob

* The above rational and reasonable opinion is subject to change if I get one more of those '&#@' one-star reviews.


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## LarryKahn (Aug 16, 2011)

I signed up with Book Rooster to review King of Paine, which was scheduled for distribution to the reviewers on August 14th. What has been your experience with the timing of reviews and communications from them? I haven't received any reviews yet and noticed the last poster, R.E., only has four after almost two months. Do they keep you updated at some point about the number of reviewers who asked to receive the book? I dropped them a note and was told only that the book had been distributed and to expect some reviews shortly.

Thanks,

Larry


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

LarryKahn said:


> I signed up with Book Rooster to review King of Paine, which was scheduled for distribution to the reviewers on August 14th. What has been your experience with the timing of reviews and communications from them? I haven't received any reviews yet and noticed the last poster, R.E., only has four after almost two months. Do they keep you updated at some point about the number of reviewers who asked to receive the book? I dropped them a note and was told only that the book had been distributed and to expect some reviews shortly.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Larry


I received no notification. If you write to them, I believe somone will respond.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Any recent information or feedback about Book Rooster? In spite of this thread, I signed up. Curious to know what to expect.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

Gretchen Galway said:


> Any recent information or feedback about Book Rooster? In spite of this thread, I signed up. Curious to know what to expect.


There was another recent thread about BR. Search for "Rooster" in the Writer's Cafe using the search feature and you should find it.

I think I'm going to send my info to BR this week. Gulp.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks. I searched Book Rooster and it didn't come up. I'll search again.

I know how you feel *gulping too*. Mine went out a few days ago.

But don't worry, Moses! You're a great writer. The world will notice in time, no matter what the Roosters do.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm happy to report that my novel, Vestal Virgin--suspense in ancient Rome, recieved a 5 star review from Red Adept on Friday. 

I was beginning to feel like I can't write from all the bad reviews my short stories received from Book Rooster. Their readers just didn't seem to get my sense of humor, my writing style, or what I was trying to do with the stories. Really brought down my rating. Oh well. 

Hope you have better luck.


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

Congrats, Suzanne, on your 5 star from Red Adept!

It's so nice when a reviewer "gets" your vision


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

Gretchen Galway said:


> Thanks. I searched Book Rooster and it didn't come up. I'll search again.
> 
> I know how you feel *gulping too*. Mine went out a few days ago.
> 
> But don't worry, Moses! You're a great writer. The world will notice in time, no matter what the Roosters do.


Search for "Rooster," not "Book Rooster." I remember that the thread just said something about "Rooster." LOL

And thanks very much! I'm working on it.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> I'm happy to report that my novel, Vestal Virgin--suspense in ancient Rome, recieved a 5 star review from Red Adept on Friday.
> 
> I was beginning to feel like I can't write from all the bad reviews my short stories received from Book Rooster. Their readers just didn't seem to get my sense of humor, my writing style, or what I was trying to do with the stories. Really brought down my rating. Oh well.
> 
> Hope you have better luck.


Congratulations on the 5-star, and I'm sorry to hear your BookRooster experience brought you down. Both rating-wise and muse-wise. I certainly hope I have better luck as well. I wanted some feedback, and I suppose I'll get it.

I'm also doing a free giveaway on Goodreads through October 31. I've got a new book coming out, so I'm doing the freebies for the backlist title. Seemed like a good way to find future readers, even if a bunch give me meh reviews. Here's hoping, anyway.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Here's that link: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,81704.0.html

Mine's went up 3 days ago, nothing to report yet. Probably be a good week, maybe more, before I see anything.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks for the link. Mine also went out on Sept. 15. It's a mainstream romance, and I think it has broad appeal. I didn't mind paying for the distribution, though I probably won't do it again now that I've discovered Goodreads has a giveaway group for ebooks and a really nice community vibe.

For those who want to try a Goodreads giveaway, here's the link. http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/50149.eBook_Giveaways


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> I'm happy to report that my novel, Vestal Virgin--suspense in ancient Rome, recieved a 5 star review from Red Adept on Friday.
> 
> I was beginning to feel like I can't write from all the bad reviews my short stories received from Book Rooster. Their readers just didn't seem to get my sense of humor, my writing style, or what I was trying to do with the stories. Really brought down my rating. Oh well.
> 
> Hope you have better luck.


Maybe the reader base for book rooster was just too broad for you? I'm beginning to believe true 21st writer success will come from writing for niche markets. If the net is cast too broadly, you may end up with folks who "don't get it". Nothing wrong with that, not everyone likes everything, but my leaning is towards "niche is king". (hope that made sense..)

I'm a short-story hound! So I'm tempted to buy the collection just to give it a read. :-D


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## Doug Lance (Sep 20, 2010)

Gretchen Galway said:


> Thanks for the link. Mine also went out on Sept. 15. It's a mainstream romance, and I think it has broad appeal. I didn't mind paying for the distribution, though I probably won't do it again now that I've discovered Goodreads has a giveaway group for ebooks and a really nice community vibe.
> 
> For those who want to try a Goodreads giveaway, here's the link. http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/50149.eBook_Giveaways


Goodreads has a giveaway system built in as well, rather than just a group of 500 or so: http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Doug Lance said:


> Goodreads has a giveaway system built in as well, rather than just a group of 500 or so: http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/


Yes, but they have to be physical copies for that giveaway. To giveaway ebooks, you have to do something through groups or something along those lines.

Now LibraryThing DOES have a member giveaway for ebooks. I gave away 10 books last March and got 2 reviews from it. Just last week I gave away 30 of my latest novel there, and if I can get 5 reviews, I'll be very satisfied with it. Unless the reviews all suck. Then of course the reviewers must be immune to my brilliance


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks Kathy and Gretchen. 

Vicky, I think you're right. The readers were largely outside of my niche. 
If you like short stories (some of them flash fiction), I'd love for you to read my work.


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## LarryKahn (Aug 16, 2011)

I suggest being conservative in your hopes for a quick spate of reviews from Book Rooster. My novel was released for distribution on 8/14 and I still don't think I have any reviews on Amazon from their reviewers. There's one post that looks like it might be from a BR reviewer but it does not include their signature disclosure that a complimentary copy was received for review purposes.

I saw in an earlier post that Moses's book was distributed to BR reviewers on 8/15 and don't think he's had any BR reviews yet, either, so it looks like they've fallen behind.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

OMG this thread will not die!!!!


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## HAGrant (Jul 17, 2011)

I sent BookRooster two books in early/mid-August and have received several reviews for each book. They promise a minimum of ten reviews per book, but I don't know how long that will take. The reviews seem honest - some seem to understand the books and some miss major points, just like reviews from the general public. 

I am coming down the home stretch with another book and will just submit it to blog reviewers. BookRooster hasn't done anything wrong, but the reviews are slow to appear and keeping pace with reviews from readers, so I don't see any advantage in paying.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

LarryKahn said:


> I saw in an earlier post that Moses's book was distributed to BR reviewers on 8/15 and don't think he's had any BR reviews yet, either, so it looks like they've fallen behind.


I decided to wait a while, and so I think they only started distributing my book at the end of last week at the earlier.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Just wanted to update everyone. Mine went up almost a month ago and I've had* zero reviews*. I emailed them, I don't recall, about 10 days ago. They said they have given the book out to around 13 reviewers and were going to send it out to a dozen more in the next few days.

Maybe they are trying to match the reviews with the books better, and so are taking it slower. Maybe I need to learn to be more patient.

Anyone else have trouble getting reviews?


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Same disappointing experience here. I regret spending the $. I gave out copies on Goodreads and got a few reviews within a week or two... and that was free.

The lack of any communication back and forth with BookRooster also makes me uneasy. It wasn't a big deal to me money-wise, but I wouldn't advise others to use this service. Regardless of what reviews I get. I think I was overly influenced by the endorsement on Konrath's blog, and in hindsight think genuine reviews that trickle in slowly are simply worth waiting for.

If I change my mind I'll post it... but I don't think I will.


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## libbyfh (Feb 11, 2010)

I used Book Rooster for 2 of my books. With the first, DOUBLEBACK, last spring/summer, the reviews were prompt, but some of them clearly were not reviewers who typically read thrillers,which DB is. My results weren't horrible, but I felt strange having people who couldn't spell or compose grammatical sentences passing judgement on my work.

On the whole, though, I thought they were fair and balanced. (God... I sound like a commercial for Fox News... horrors!) Anyway, I went back to them for EASY INNOCENCE, but after 2 months have only received a few reviews. I think they may have been overwhelmed with requests and simply ran out of reviewers. That can happen, as so many of us want and need honest reviews. 

WOuld I use them again? Possibly... if they could assure me that the reviewers were people who appreciated the genre(s) I write.


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## Tara Maya (Nov 4, 2010)

I've never had any problems with the reviewers or reviews from them, but I've heard they are having trouble.


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## TXSasquatch (Aug 19, 2010)

I decided to try BookRooster recently, and the first review just posted. I can't tell you exactly how long it took, but it was very prompt. I was actually pretty surprised that the first one posted so quickly, and while it broke my perfect string of five-star reviews, it was still a good review, both in terms of rating (three stars) and content. It may actually benefit me in a way because I think most folks are inherently suspicious of any book that *everyone* likes. Even the best authors get reviews from one end of the continuum to the other, and if all reviews are five stars, I think folks start to wonder how many siblings and cousins the author has! 

My only real complaint with the first review was that the reader apparently "didn't get" part of the story. There was a criticism included in both the review title and text that amounted to a factual error; it was completely off base. Even so, three stars isn't bad, and it only brought my average down to 4.9, so I won't complain too loudly about it. I used to be a college professor, and I always hated it when students whined about good grades because they weren't quite good _enough_. I won't be like that.

So . . . in the early going, my BookRooster experience has been generally positive, and I'm anxious to see how it goes from here. I'll keep y'all posted.

Will


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## carbsnconjugations (Apr 27, 2011)

I've spent probably the last hour or longer reading through this post, and honestly--as a book reviewer--I'm slightly upset. I recently joined Book Rooster in an effort to discover new books and authors, and simply because I enjoy reading and promoting books. I understand that positive reviews are very important to authors, especially indie/self-published authors. But as someone else said, even big authors like Kurt Vonnegut have their share of negative reviews. Negative reviews are going to happen no matter what, and there isn't anything anyone can do to stop them. Even if a book is perfectly crafted (grammar, plot, etc.) someone could potentially find something to complain about.

I've seen a lot of people mention that Book Rooster needs to match up reviewers with the genres that they actually like. Well, they do; but only if the person who signed up to review through Book Rooster is being honest about their genres. Have any of you that are criticizing Book Rooster tried taking a look at it from the reviewer's end of things? That is, have you personally gone through the sign-up process to see what a potential book reviewer sees?

This is the list of genres a reviewer has to choose from:


Romance
Mystery
Thriller
Horror
Fantasy
Science Fiction
Young Adult
Literary Fiction
Erotica
Women's Fiction
Historical Fiction
Christian Fiction
Humor
Memoir
Non-Fiction: Advice and How-To
Non-Fiction: Arts & Entertainment
Non-Fiction: Cooking, Food, & Wine
Non-Fiction: Business & Investing
Non-Fiction: Lifestyle & Home

Again, the blame should be assigned to the *reviewer* for not being truthful in genres; not Book Rooster.

Invitations are then sent out to the reviewers based on their checked preferences. I'll even provide an example for an invitation that I personally received:

Dear XXXXXXX,

You are invited to read and review:

The Last Hunter - Pursuit 
(Book 2 of the Antarktos Saga) 
by Jeremy Robinson

Genre: Young Adult Present Day Fantasy / Action-Adventure

About This Book:

I was thirteen years old when I was kidnapped. They took me from my family, from my friends-from everything I knew, and stole my innocence. They brought me to a world beneath the surface of Antarctica, where I was broken and trained by a hunter named Ninnis. He served the ancient Nephilim: half-human, half-demon monsters. My personality was buried in my subconscious and replaced by that of Ull, a hunter and killer. For a time, I too served the Nephilim. As the first and only human born on Antarctica, they believed that I could contain the spirit of their fallen king, Nephil, and lead them to conquer humanity.

But I was stronger than they knew and escaped deep into the underworld, where I have been hiding for the past two years. I live in a cavern, which is somehow lush with green vegetation, eking out a living and cowering from the confrontation that I know awaits me. But the nightmare has found me. I can smell them. The hunters. They have discovered my hideout.

The pursuit of Solomon Ull Vincent-the last hunter-has begun. And if they catch me, this is where my story will end.

Want more info before you decide? Check out a free sample of this book at Amazon. (link to book provided)

Not your cup of tea? Don't worry. There are lots of titles queued up to be reviewed and we're sending out more invitations every day. With BookRooster.com, you can read books that appeal to you in genres you enjoy; you're never obligated to request a book that doesn't capture your fancy.

If you would like to read and review this book, here is what to do:

1. Click here to go to the book's review copy request form (first come, first served).

2. You will need to enter your Reviewer ID into the form. It is: XXXXXXXXXX

3. Copy your Reviewer ID into the form, leave the pre-filled fields as they are, and click the Submit button.

4. If you are one of the first 30 reviewers to request the book, we will send you a MOBI file for you to load on your Kindle along with some more tips and information about your book review.

Happy Reading!

The BookRooster.com Team

While YA is one of my preferred genres, I did not accept it for review because I have not read the first in series, and I will not review anything out of order. Nor did I desire to purchase/borrow a copy of the first book simply in order for a "free" copy of this book.

I don't remember the exact date that I signed up for Book Rooster, but I do know that it was within the last month or so. To date, I have received a total of 6 invitations.

I have only accepted 1 of in the invitations, and received the book instantly in my inbox as a mobi file.

While yes, I received a book that I did not have to pay for, I still spend my time (approx. 3+ hours) reading it, and I will only agree to read a book if I genuinely believe that it is one that I will enjoy. If it turns out that I did not enjoy the book, I will then write a review that explains why I did not like the book.

In each of the cases where I received an invitation to review, I read the the product description in the email. If I liked the product description, then I will click on the Amazon.com link to find out more. I may glance at the ratings of the books and/or skim reviews, but I generally rely on my own instincts when deciding. If I am able to search inside of the book, I will then read a sample of the writing to see if it is a style I like. If there are punctuation errors, misspellings, or any kind of formatting issues that make it distracting to read, I'll pass.

I know that this is not how all reviewers decide on what they will read, but if I'm going to give my time to something--and if I have agreed to review it, I will read it all the way through, whether I like it or not--then I want to make sure that it is a book I have a good chance of enjoying.

For the record, when I signed up on Book Rooster, I saw no mention of "prizes" for reviewing. In no way would the lure of prizes encourage me to accept more books for review just to win something cool; I would personally still use the same criteria that I outlined above. I can't speak for all book reviewers, just myself.

I personally like the idea of Book Rooster, both for the writer and the reader. I do not view it as a writer "paying" for reviews, but as a service purchased to get the books into reviewers' hands. I receive no cut of what Book Rooster charges the author for their service. It isn't that much different than if you had found me via the review blog I write for, or if I had picked your book from Amazon Vine. No matter through the channel I get the book, the review outcome will be the same: my personal opinions and experiences that I had while reading your book.


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## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm sorry . . . your post was very informative, but I didn't see exactly why you were upset? Maybe it's me, I'm tired and my children were very . . . _active_ this morning . . .

I see your recognition of how important reviews are to new authors, or indie/published authors --- from there, it's a small step to see that Amazon reviews are _more_ important than ever . . . once upon a time, Amazon customer reviews didn't matter much. They were incidental, and took care of themselves. They were firmly in the category of "nice to have", but were hardly anyone's first priority.

In less than a year, these reviews have gone from being of incidental importance, to critical importance. Therefore, the "indie-publishing industry" has no clear consensus yet on all aspects of what makes an Amazon customer review "ethical" or "unethical". Some people simply think that money changing hands, anywhere along the line, renders the review unethical: by the standard of anyone using this litmus test, BookRooster is unethical.

I happen to disagree strongly with this --- I don't see any ethical problem with BookRooster. I got a refund from them, but only because they hadn't actually offer the book to their reviewers. They were prompt, polite and professional about the refund.

I think that over time, the standards will relax out of necessity. They'll have to, because with more books being published now, there are a lot fewer reviewers available per book. And without reviews, you're screwed.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

@carbsnconjugations  Thanks for the informative post. 

The list of genres doesn't mention short stories. No wonder I received a number of reviews wanting a longer book and more continuity. IMO, Bookrooster should have told me they don't offer reviews for my book's category.


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## antares (Feb 13, 2011)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> The list of genres doesn't mention short stories. No wonder I received a number of reviews wanting a longer book and more continuity. IMO, Bookrooster should have told me they don't offer reviews for my book's category.


Bingo.

I reviewed *Ghost Plane* on Amazon. Gave it 4 stars.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

antares said:


> Bingo.
> 
> I reviewed *Ghost Plane* on Amazon. Gave it 4 stars.


Thank you!


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## carbsnconjugations (Apr 27, 2011)

Ok, I understand that you are upset they did not tell you their categories don't cover your genre, but I humbly feel it was your error. The genre list is located on the home page in plain sight--why is Book Rooster to blame that you did not make sure that their services fully met your needs in that regard by looking at it from a reviewer's perspective, too?

@John Blackport: The reason I was upset upon reading this post is because of the general attitude that some of the authors seem to have regarding book reviewers.

The review of Suzanne's book is not well-written, nor as detailed as I (and I'm sure many of you) believe that it should be. However sparse the details are, the reviewer states what s/he did not like: "too short, disjointed and unfortunately just not as fun as it could have been." I would have liked examples as to the reviewer's definition of "too short", in what ways it felt disjointed, and why it wasn't fun.

One thing I don't like is that Book Rooster is fine if the review is only 100 words long. That's just too short of a review!


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Truthfully, I signed up for the reviews so long ago I don't remember if they listed the genres. I signed up when Bookrooster first started. It was an experiment, and you're right, it is partly my fault. Basically, I misunderstood the service.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Suzanne,

Took me a long while to notice this thread, but thanks for keeping it alive.

Some time ago, someone mentioned Book Rooster to me as something to consider, but after hearing the results folks have experienced here, I think I'm better off giving away a dozen eBooks on LibraryThing in the hope of getting a couple extra reviews out of the bargain.

Saved me $50, because I was starting to think about it....


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2011)

carbsnconjugations said:


> The review of Suzanne's book is not well-written, nor as detailed as I (and I'm sure many of you) believe that it should be. However sparse the details are, the reviewer states what s/he did not like: "too short, disjointed and unfortunately just not as fun as it could have been." I would have liked examples as to the reviewer's definition of "too short", in what ways it felt disjointed, and why it wasn't fun.


At least for me, the issue is NOT the reviewers themselves. A customer who buys a book and decides to review it is gold, regardless of the length or detail of the review.

The problem is that the second money exchanges hands, these reviews are no longer "customer reviews" but a paid for service. And as with any service, there should be a baseline quality level involved. As I have said previously, I don't neccessarily have a problem with a broker charging a fee to find third-party reviews for you. That is no different than paying an assistant to go find potential reviewers.

The problem is that all BR does is distribute the book for free to anyone willing to say they will review it, with minimal standards vetting. BR is not recruiting third party bloggers with established review sites. It is very hit or miss in terms of the quality of the review. Some of the reviewers are excellent. Others are barely literate. It is one thing if you get that sort of mix organically through your own sales. It is quite another when you pay someone hard cash and get that result.


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## Iain Edward Henn (Jan 29, 2011)

Like many, I've found it slow obtaining reviews, many book bloggers are backlogged and unable to get to new books in the forseeable future. I also signed up for BookRooster after reading Joe Konrath's blog.

I've had three BookRooster reviews, two of them 4 star, one of them 3 star, with comments containing both pros and cons, so thus far I'm happy with that result. I would liken the service as having some similarity to a publicist sending out copies for review, and there's nothing unethical about distributing a limited number of copies to potential reviewers, though I believe it is important that the genre is of interest to them.

However threads of this type offer up a range of experiences and opinions, from which each of us can then decide whether a particular service is right for us or not, (and of course many of these services are new) so many thanks Suzanne for kicking this off. As another poster commented, it's the Wild West of epublishing out there at the moment, and it remains to be seen what will ultimately work best. We can only Live and Learn, as they say.


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## carbsnconjugations (Apr 27, 2011)

> The problem is that all BR does is distribute the book for free to anyone willing to say they will review it, with minimal standards vetting.


Right...but if the reviewer doesn't review a certain number of books and doesn't provide links to where the review is posted, the BR is going to stop sending that reviewer book invitations.

I'll have to dig through my emails and see if I can find their exact wording on it.


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## David D Sharp (Aug 25, 2011)

Wishing I'd found this thread before I'd given my money to Bookrooster. Apparently my book has been out for review for almost 3 months now and only received one review out of it.

That bit I'm not so bothered about - I appreciate that its a human process and my book probably isn't for everyone. What's really annoying me though is the complete lack of communication from Bookrooster themselves. I received one automated e-mail giving a rough date of when my book would go out for review and that was it. Radio silence from then. How were they getting on? Was anything happening with my book? Were they struggling to find reviewers? Or had they just taken my money and absconded? I've constantly had to chase them for information and received only vague responses each time. If it was a free service I wouldn't mind so much when you've paid for money for something then the bare minimum you deserve is updates on the service.

I certainly won't be using them again.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

David D Sharp said:


> Wishing I'd found this thread before I'd given my money to Bookrooster. Apparently my book has been out for review for almost 3 months now and only received one review out of it.
> 
> That bit I'm not so bothered about - I appreciate that its a human process and my book probably isn't for everyone. What's really annoying me though is the complete lack of communication from Bookrooster themselves. I received one automated e-mail giving a rough date of when my book would go out for review and that was it. Radio silence from then. How were they getting on? Was anything happening with my book? Were they struggling to find reviewers? Or had they just taken my money and absconded? I've constantly had to chase them for information and received only vague responses each time. If it was a free service I wouldn't mind so much when you've paid for money for something then the bare minimum you deserve is updates on the service.
> 
> I certainly won't be using them again.


I've had the exact same experience, except I don't think I've even received one review. (I did my own giveaway on Goodreads and got a few within a week, but I suppose one of those could be from Bookrooster.)

I agree that the silence and auto-reply is the most annoying. I certainly won't be using them again and wouldn't recommend it to others.


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## destill (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm right there with you, David and Gretchen. 

I've had MUCH better results through LibraryThing.


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## amiblackwelder (Mar 19, 2010)

SuzanneTyrpak said:


> I've hesitated about posting this, but I've decided to let my fellow writers know about my experience with Book Rooster.
> 
> I learned about the book review service through Kindle Nation about a month ago. They were offering a special: $39.99 (the usual price is $49.99). For that money, Book Rooster offers free copies of a writer's book (which the writer provides) to readers, who are interested in that genre, and the book will receive at least ten reviews. I decided to give the service a try.
> 
> ...


I went ahead and tried them for my new release THE MERS as well...and its been two months and I have not gotten one review as of yet! They are supposed to do ten at least! I will not use them again. I think it is a waste of money. Better to go through blogger and giveaways on goodreads and library thing to gain reviews.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Thanks for this thread -- I'd been considering using Book Rooster for my next release, but after reading everyone's comments, it sounds as if I'd be better served pursuing other avenues for getting reviews. It's too bad, because I think BR had the kernel of a good idea, but when people aren't even getting the reviews that BR promises for its $67, then obviously something isn't working.

I'll keep plugging away at LibraryThing, and I'll also try the Goodreads giveaway group, as I hadn't heard of it before reading this thread.


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## David D Sharp (Aug 25, 2011)

Has anyone had any experience of Bookplex? I've heard them mentioned as being "like Bookrooster but not rubbish" but am not feeling very eager about parting any more cash for reviews.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

David D Sharp said:


> Has anyone had any experience of Bookplex? I've heard them mentioned as being "like Bookrooster but not rubbish" but am not feeling very eager about parting any more cash for reviews.


Well, maybe they're "not rubbish," but the site seems pretty amateurish (it abounds with grammatical errors and typos), and it seems they've only reviewed two books. I know we all have to start somewhere, but for $75 for 10 reviews, I know I'd want something that comes across as a little more professional.


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## James Conway (Jul 7, 2011)

I thought about going through Book Rooster but then thought differently about it after I saw the price. I contacted a number of reviews on my own and am starting to have them come back, quite favorably fortunately. But, I imagine that, in any situation, you run the risk of having an unjustly bad review. I would imagine as well that, if you requested a review on your own,you may have a slightly better chance of talking some sense into the reviewer because you've got a more personal relationship. Plus it doesn't cost you anything.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2011)

James Conway said:


> you may have a slightly better chance of talking some sense into the reviewer


Say wha? 'fraid you lost me here.


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## amiblackwelder (Mar 19, 2010)

David D Sharp said:


> Wishing I'd found this thread before I'd given my money to Bookrooster. Apparently my book has been out for review for almost 3 months now and only received one review out of it.
> 
> That bit I'm not so bothered about - I appreciate that its a human process and my book probably isn't for everyone. What's really annoying me though is the complete lack of communication from Bookrooster themselves. I received one automated e-mail giving a rough date of when my book would go out for review and that was it. Radio silence from then. How were they getting on? Was anything happening with my book? Were they struggling to find reviewers? Or had they just taken my money and absconded? I've constantly had to chase them for information and received only vague responses each time. If it was a free service I wouldn't mind so much when you've paid for money for something then the bare minimum you deserve is updates on the service.
> 
> I certainly won't be using them again.


My thoughts and experience exactly!


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## amiblackwelder (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm sending this thread to kindle nation since they advertised the book rooster to me. They need to take it off since it sucks so much.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2011)

amiblackwelder said:


> I'm sending this thread to kindle nation since they advertised the book rooster to me. They need to take it off since it sucks so much.


Unless they have a policy stating that they do not accept advertising dollars from companies deemed sucky by KB, not sure why you would complain to them. Accepting advertising money does not equal endorsement. I see adds at the bottom of KB pages all the time for services I personally find questionable (like vanity publishers and the recent Writer's Digest self-pub service with their seal of approval) but I don't hold KB responsible for those ads. I'd feel sorry for Harvey if we all started bombarding him with emails every time an ad or banner ran on his site for a book that turned out to suck


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Seems like all my posts have been downers lately. However, I think I should let others know that I *have not one single review that I can attribute to Book Rooster. 
*
As far as endorsements, I was thinking of sending a politely worded e-mail to JA Konrath. He raved about their service in his blog, but I think it's gone down hill since then (I signed up after reading about it on his blog, but it was a good month before my book was ready and I've been waiting for reviews for months).

*I in no way blame him* (he had great success with them and I thank him--tons--for sharing); but since so many authors are having trouble, he might want to update that blog post.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

How long ago did you pay?


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Monique said:


> How long ago did you pay?


Back when Konrath did his post; maybe July My book went live Sept. 15th. When I write BR support I either get no reply, or promises of future reviews. After Christmas I am going to ask for a refund (the site promised 10 reviews when I signed up); we'll see what happens, but I'm not holding my breathe.

They did at least acknowledge my pre-paid booking. I had another site that I pre-paid and now will not reply to my emails or PM's (via goodreads).

Caveat Emptor


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## Eric C (Aug 3, 2009)

Just to provide a counter weight, I used BR for one book and have received more than the minimum number of reviews, 13 to date.

I think they're over-priced now though, so don't expect to be using them again.


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## David D Sharp (Aug 25, 2011)

Just a quick update on my experience with Book Rooster. Sent them a grumpy e-mail saying I was completely dissatisfied with the service and got a reply saying they would look into giving me a refund. Didn't hold my breath but today, almost three weeks later I got a full refund! So at least they're not total scoundrels.

From what I've been reading here and elsewhere it sounds like Book Rooster started off as a great enterprise but grew too fast and now struggling to cope.


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## Randy Kadish (Feb 24, 2010)

I haven't tried Book Rooster, but I can say I got a fair number of reviews from Librarything, even though my books are geared toward fly fishing.

(For two of the books - long stories - I went after Young Adult reviewers. Had I been able to go after fly fishers I think my reviews would have been better.)

I also received some reviewers from contacting reviewers of other fly fishing books and then sending them free copies of mine.

Randy


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## scottawilliamsbooks (Mar 27, 2012)

I had a bad experience, too. Don't use them.


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## NYCowgirl (Jan 17, 2013)

Sorry to post on such an old topic, but I just found out about and signed up for Book Rooster, and thought I'd do a bit of research to see what I was in for. After reading all nine pages of discussion on this topic, I am eager to get started! And might I say, it was so refreshing to read such a well-written thread in a world of grammatical errors lacking punctuation.

As a reader, I signed up for Book Rooster to, well, read. I am completely unaware of any "prizes", other than the complimentary copies of books, and do not anticipate nor need them. As an avid and swift reader unable to pay for my $10+ book-a-day habit, this seems a great solution to partner with my weekly library trips. I AM excited to say that I will be checking out some of the poster's works, and will provide insightful, thorough and HONEST reviews on Amazon. 

Write on!!!!


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2013)

NYCowgirl said:


> Sorry to post on such an old topic, but I just found out about and signed up for Book Rooster, and thought I'd do a bit of research to see what I was in for. After reading all nine pages of discussion on this topic, I am eager to get started! And might I say, it was so refreshing to read such a well-written thread in a world of grammatical errors lacking punctuation.
> 
> As a reader, I signed up for Book Rooster to, well, read. I am completely unaware of any "prizes", other than the complimentary copies of books, and do not anticipate nor need them. As an avid and swift reader unable to pay for my $10+ book-a-day habit, this seems a great solution to partner with my weekly library trips. I AM excited to say that I will be checking out some of the poster's works, and will provide insightful, thorough and HONEST reviews on Amazon.
> 
> Write on!!!!


How you could have possibly read all nine pages of this thread and STILL posted this comment with a straight face is beyond me. (OK, maybe you are laughing hysterically as you post and we just don't know it.)


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Also odd: how anyone could read a book a day and claim it costs $10 a pop when there are SO many great books available between $0.99 to $4.99, and many even free.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> How you could have possibly read all nine pages of this thread and STILL posted this comment with a straight face is beyond me.


In a little while, when he comes back and edits that post/his signature to include a link to an offshore pharmacy, all will be made clear.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Zombie thread comes back from the dead!!!!


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

TexasGirl said:


> Zombie thread comes back from the dead!!!!


Speaking of zombies, I decided to give BR a shot waaaaay back when, because another author had had a very positive experience. I got a couple of really well-written reviews (fair reviews with lots of detail that would help readers decide if the book was for them, regardless of star rating) and was satisfied. I didn't get the # BR promised, but I chalked it up as research and moved on.

And then last month, I got a partial refund from them, no explanation. I took the cash and spent it on booze and pills, of course.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I took the cash and spent it on booze and pills, of course.


Marry me.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

smreine said:


> Marry me.


I'll settle for sex.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

smreine said:


> Marry me.





TexasGirl said:


> I'll settle for sex.


SO MUCH LADY LOVE IN THE HOUSE!

I'm going to write a million words today, without the distraction of KDP reports.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

TexasGirl said:


> Zombie thread comes back from the dead!!!!


Zombies: Proof that not only can you never keep a good man down, but you can't keep anyone down!


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Dalya said:


> And then last month, I got a partial refund from them, no explanation. I took the cash and spent it on booze and pills, of course.


Where's my refund? Or at least my Booze?

I did get 7 reviews today, so I shouldn't complain. Though most the old fashion way, free books.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

MJAWare said:


> Where's my refund? Or at least my Booze?
> 
> I did get 7 reviews today, so I shouldn't complain. Though most the old fashion way, free books.


You didn't get the Old Smokey Moonshine that Amazon sent to authors they really like? I got a case... 



> "If you love your country, you're gonna have to love Moonshine." -Tickle


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