# Ebooks are just TOO expensive



## LDB (Oct 28, 2008)

How many times have you heard that? I've heard it numerous times and always from those who don't own a Kindle and have no clue what they're talking about. My 155 ebooks have cost an average of $1.138 each. If I took out my 3 most expensive purchases it would drop to 99.3 cents per book. I could also subtract the cost of those books I didn't buy because sampling showed me I didn't want it and that would likely bring my total below a dollar including my 3 splurges. I never thought to keep track of that information until recently. In any event, it's pretty clear who has no Kindle by their comments on prices.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Agreed! I have bought one $9.99 book, the rest have been $4.99 or less. Of my over 200 books on the Kindle, 100 were free. Haven't done the math but I can't have spent much, there are several one cent books in there as well.


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## Athenagwis (Apr 2, 2009)

I totally agree.  I have been keeping track of the price per book, but I have included the price of the kindle with it.  I haven’t had the Kindle a week yet, and I only have 22 books on my kindle so far, but I am already very satisfied with my “Price per book” count!  

Now I will agree that in the past I never really bought books, I always got them from the library, so having a Kindle is 100% more expensive then my reading habit in the past.  However, in the past I never dragged my library books around with me, I also forgot to return them on time.  Having all my books on my Kindle with me at all times with no worries of returning them on time is well worth the extra cost.

Unfortunately those that think e-books are too expensive don’t find value in what the Kindle offers, so they will never be able to be convinced otherwise.  I am just glad to have found the Kindle myself.

Rachel


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

Well I agree with them, if someone is not an avid reader, the cost of ebooks is expensive.  A person can't compare just the cost of the individual books to their paper counterparts, but also the cost of getting the reader in the first place.  If someone only reads 2-3 books a year, it will be a long time before the cost of ebook reader is counteracted by the savings of cheaper ebooks.  Now if our example reads 2-3 books a week, they will hit that threshold very quickly.

Lara Amber


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## Rhiathame (Mar 12, 2009)

I agree. While I would like some books to drop in price, by in large most of my books are fairly inexpensive. In my opinion, reading is still one of the cheapest forms of entertainment. I may play around with figuring out what the average cost per book is and what that difference would be for DTBs.

I also agree with the sample books point. I have lost count of the books that I got samples of because I thought they would be interesting and found that well...they were not. With DTBs I would have been out that money.


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## klrodrigues (Mar 29, 2009)

If only the people would realize.. all the Classics we get for free they have to purchase if they wna tto read them!  I just recently got several from Feedbooks that I have always wanted to read again... can you imagine how much that would have been?  Ha, Kindling isn't expensive.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

I, too, track ebooks purchased.  Excluding free books, my average cost per book is  $5.43.  If free books actually read are included, that drops to an average of $5.09 per book.  If all free non-public domain books are included, it drops to $3.72.  Add 50 free public domain titles and it is only $2.55 per book.  Keeping cheapskate thrift aside, none of these examples are too expensive.

Now averaging the costs of books is not really the best to judge the costs of ebooks.  I don't think $9.99 is unreasonable for most new hardcovers.  Up to $12.99 or so would probably be acceptable for some new titles too.  While there are some exceptions out there, most authors and publishers need to make a living and not every book can be sold for under $5.00 every time.

Throwing another wrench into the machine, I see a lot of people complain about the cost of the Kindle or Sony reader.  A lot of them seem to say the Kindle should cost almost nothing: or, the Kindle should have a give away the razor and sell the blade marketing ploy.  If those people had their way, the costs of ebooks would have to be higher.  But, then again, I'm willing to bet the kind of people who advocate very inexpensive Kindles would also download illegal file shares.


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## Graydog (Feb 18, 2009)

The value of what the Kindle offers is one thing -- what about the value of reading?  I have never worried about the cost of reading and I never will.  For me, that would be like worrying about the cost of breathing.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

I have had my Kindle a little over 9 months and at 20-30 books per month have more than redeemed the cost of the Kindle.  I have never downloaded a book from anywhere but Amazon, so I haven't even taken advantage of the savings from Feedbooks, etc.  My personal price point is whether a kindlebook is the same price or less expensive than I can buy it at a store, so there are some Kindle "paperbacks" I would like to read that I haven't purchased because they don't fit that criteria.  There are always more books to be purchased that do fit the criteria so I don't worry about running out of reading material.  I used to keep track and I think in my early kindling I came up with something like $4.79/book.  I have downloaded a lot of free and bargain books since then so I am sure it would be less now.  I quit keeping track, I just read and enjoy.


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## Shawna (Feb 25, 2009)

Graydog said:


> The value of what the Kindle offers is one thing -- what about the value of reading? I have never worried about the cost of reading and I never will. For me, that would be like worrying about the cost of breathing.


That's how I feel to. I buy what books I want to read and read them. They give me hours of entertainment for at or below the price of one movie ticket at the theater. This is my hobby and a big peice of my entertainment - a book I really want to read at any price is worth it to me. I didn't worry about buying dtb before I had my Kindle and I don't worry now. The Kindle 2 just brought my hobby up to the next level!! (It helps that my husbands hobby is restoring cars and rebuilding motorcycles so a few hundred dollars in books every year is a drop in the bucket compared to what he spends on his "passion"!).


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## GeorgeGlass (Mar 25, 2009)

I generally like more expensive books for the Kindle. I've read some great books I paid full price for. Beyond the classics, I haven't enjoyed most of the cheaper ones I've bought. Part of that, though, may be my willingness to step out of my comfort zone more since getting the Kindle to poor result.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

All of my e-books have been free, or classics, and just lately I have spent .99 cents on a few of the new authors' books.

I still buy regular old paper books, I just like the antiquity and nostalgia of them. I can't seem to spend that same price on an e-book though.

-sailor


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## Zeronewbury (Feb 20, 2009)

I have a hard time believing that anyone spends $359 plus accessories for a device to make their reading inexpensive.  We are readers.  We have no choice.  The Kindle is a magnificent means to fulfill our sweet addiction.  And it becomes an addiction all on its own.


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

Zeronewbury,

I think over time the $359 plus accessories will be eaten away and the reader will see a net gain, assuming the reader is a complete book slut.  

In a true cost comparison for me I would need to include:

The cost of the Kindle 2 and accessories
The cost of ebooks purchased

compared to:

The cost if I bought the books in hardback (the way I purchased books)
The cost of mylar dustjacket protectors and adhesive strips to protect my hardbacks
The cost of additional shelves to protect the books

To me there will be a definite cost savings over time, especially since I am thinning out my book collection.  I bought new bookcases last month and the amount of shelving I needed was halved (books that found new homes + no longer needing space for expansion).  That saved me $1,000 (and that's with the shelving on sale for 50% off).  Plus it will reduce the needed square footage of my home, so we can stay in our townhouse longer, reducing our future housing costs.

Lara Amber


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

Zeronewbury said:


> I have a hard time believing that anyone spends $359 plus accessories for a device to make their reading inexpensive. We are readers. We have no choice. The Kindle is a magnificent means to fulfill our sweet addiction. And it becomes an addiction all on its own.


Couldn't have said it better myself! 
I am at about $1.65 a book. I have a skin and just got a second hand M-edge cover. I never really thought about the costs too much. I feel that as a lover of reading it is a necessity!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

As an author, my first Kindle book was priced at $9.99. Then after a month I lowered it to $5.99. Then, to $3.99. Now I have established a pricing policy for Kindle and ebooks at $3.99 no matter the size of the book - so my book Bobby's Trace (103 pages) = $3.99 on the Kindle - and my longest book, TheThird Peregrination (664 pages) = $ 3.99. Now the paperback versions are driven by size and cost, but authors too many times fall for the myth that readers need to pay for their time and talent. That's baloney, of course. I write novels to be reader, and its a collaborative effort between me, the author and you, the reader. It's a relationship that's to be fostered, not a commodity sale. That's why I like Kindleboards, because everyone here are interested in reading books on the Kindle. The Kindle removes issues of cost for authors. So by offering my books (all my books) for $3.99, and occasionally lowring the price to $ .99 (Amazon's lowest price option for Indie authors), I can establish more reading relationships. I, and several other readers and author, have encouraged this $3.99 sweet spot price for Kindle books, and constantly work with new and establish authors to see the light. I am proud to say I am responsible for at least five dozen book price reductions on the Kindle after engaging an author who priced at $9.99. When I see one introduced on the spot boards, I usually research the book, and if it is interesting, I tell the author that it sounds interesting, but a bit too highly priced for me. This usually starts a discussion going. The other engagement I also perform is when an author promotes an interesting book in paper, usually at a high price, to convince them that they should (if they have control of electronic rights) to go Indie also. Of course, 'I've written a book on how to leverage the Kindle and setup books on DTP. I sell the book true, but I have given it away to puzzled authors at least a dozen times since December (when it was published).

Keep the faith fellow Kindleboard members. Low prices can give you a good read or a bad read, but it you hold a standard to your purchasing (free is great too, especially since I have $3,777 titles on my Kindle, the majority FREE, just ask me - I'll help) and you'll find some gems out there.

Edward C. Patterson


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## CoolMom1960 (Mar 16, 2009)

I also have to agree that the folks who want a Kindle for next to nothing would probably download illegal copies. My sisters thought my husband would have a fit over the cost, but the cost in his eyes is offset by the lack of piles of books that I have read, will read or am waiting to send off via paperbackswap.  To quote someone else I am a self-avowed book-slut, I probably spend about 1/2 of what I make a month on books.  Yes, I have book shelves full and boxes in the garage of books I've read.  

So I look at it this way - I'm saving a few trees and in the process my husbands sanity.

Let's face it folks - ebooks are the wave of the future.  Our local school system just adopted a new social studies books in ebook format.  Now if Amazon would hurry that textbook size Kindle along and give schools a discount.....


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## CoolMom1960 (Mar 16, 2009)

I just want you to know I freak out everytime I see your username because those are my initials. Most of my communications I sign as ldb.


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## sirsell (Mar 1, 2009)

Zeronewbury said:


> I have a hard time believing that anyone spends $359 plus accessories for a device to make their reading inexpensive. We are readers. We have no choice. The Kindle is a magnificent means to fulfill our sweet addiction. And it becomes an addiction all on its own.


true that! they are expensive (well some) but hey we're readers and its what makes us happy!


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## LDB (Oct 28, 2008)

CoolMom1960 said:


> I just want you to know I freak out everytime I see your username because those are my initials. Most of my communications I sign as ldb.


Those are my initials also and easy enough for me to remember that I use them as my forum username.


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## LDB (Oct 28, 2008)

I didn't factor the cost of the Kindle into my total because that would never give an accurate figure for "books". If I figure my cost only on the books I paid money for my average goes up to $2.077 per book. That's still as good or better than used paperback prices. Yes, there are ebooks that are $9.99 and even higher prices. I don't buy those. There are PLENTY of others to keep my eyeballs busy.


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## libro (Dec 3, 2008)

Although I'm guessing e-books are overpriced, I really don't know the business behind it so can't speculate why they charge $9.99 (and sometimes more) for e-books...some that are even a few to several years old.

Since I still have plenty of classics I'd love to read, that keeps my cost down.  I also take advantage of all the great books offered for free during Kindle promotions, although I do "sample" them now before I download them.  I've only found one I really liked, but that has more to do with my reading interest than anything.  There are lots of lesser-priced e-books out there and KindleBoards is a great place to find them.  

What perturbs me are the books priced over $9.99 that don't go down in price.  The few I've seem don't even merit a higher price, so I don't see why the publisher isn't willing to lower the prices.  

Now, if you're comparing Kindle $9.99 (and nearly that) pricing to library no-cost pricing, then the Kindle certainly is expensive.  Our library just never has any good books available!


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

With all the free books I've downloaded and read, I'd say that going ereader is cheaper. Then of course when I factor out the money that I am not spending on printer ink for school (notes and drafts of paper, mostly)...I save about 100 dollars a semester. I haven't bought a new printer cartiage for my printer since my kindle.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I just did some quick math.  I took the total of books bought, my covers, skin, light, and the cost of the K, divided by the number of books and it still comes out to an average of $4.55 per book.  That's still less than I was spending on books pre-K.
deb


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## parakeetgirl (Feb 27, 2009)

Graydog said:


> The value of what the Kindle offers is one thing -- what about the value of reading? I have never worried about the cost of reading and I never will. For me, that would be like worrying about the cost of breathing.


Me too..reading is something that is inherently part of me. Also, part of the value of the Kindle for me is the space I save.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

I do think some of the e-book are overpriced, though not really "expensive" compared to what the same book would cost in print. I think the publishers are still struggling with digital distribution pricing, even the more established music and games areas have odd pricing schemes at times. 

I understand a publishers desire to capitalize on "new" releases, for example when George R. R. Martins next tome comes out, it will be hard to say no to a $15 Kindle price versus the $22 hardback. I'm currently resisting Peter Hamiltons latest at $16 because I'm hoping it will drop to a more reasonable $7-8 in a few months. I certainly think a e-book should NEVER cost more than the trade paperback at the store, plus I think folks need to stop associating price with pages. That slider works with print books, but I don't think it really takes that much more cost to make a 1000 page e-book over a 200 page one.

I'd like to know more about how e-books are actually made. I know some are just scanned images from a real book, and I see odd ink blots or other artifacting in my e-books that reinforce this. But hopefully we will see more clean, proofread, and properly formated e-books as publishers spend more time making them. I can only assume that before a book goes to the printers there is a digital version with the final proofing, making the e-book from this "master" seems like a logical move and thus e-books should represent almost pure profit, and the price should be significantly lower than print books to reflect that.

I'm sure music pricing is inflated to better match CD prices to keep B&M stores stocking CDs from publishers. Digital game pricing is similarly inflated to keep Gamestop happy. I'd like to think that the relative scarcity of e-book readers and their high cost would mean that no matter how cheap the e-books are, B&M bookstores would not see much of an impact. But I suppose the publishers are counting on both our desire to read, thus paying higher prices (after all, if we can afford a reader at all, then we must have disposable cash) and are "future-proofing" their pricing scheme, as it would get harder and harder to justifiy an increase in costs for e-books as the technology becomes more popular.

We'll see, once some larger players get into the arena. Apple in particular could force a large overhaul in both reader and e-book pricing, and Amazon desperately needs to lower the hardware costs to increase circulation.


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

jason10mm said:


> plus I think folks need to stop associating price with pages. That slider works with print books, but I don't think it really takes that much more cost to make a 1000 page e-book over a 200 page one.


I honestly have no idea how books are really priced -- who gets what percentage of what -- I see posts here and elsewhere all the time from folks who purport to know that, but I mostly take them all with a grain of salt because I also don't know if *they* really know or are just quoting something they read/heard elsewhere and are presenting it as fact. So I don't know what authors really get paid versus what publishers and everyone else in the "food chain" get paid. In any event, I don't really have a problem paying more for a 1000 page book than a 200 page book because surely it took the AUTHOR more work to write 1000 pages than it did 200 pages. I'm willing to pay for that work, presuming it makes the book a better book (not always the case ). IMO, too often the writer's costs get overlooked when it comes to these book price discussions; maybe they get paid an amount upfront that represents the largest portion of their income on the book, I don't know (probably only for the really Big Names). But surely they're entitled to payment for their efforts too... Perhaps I'm just overly-naive about how things work.


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## cat616 (Nov 4, 2008)

An e-book has very little production cost - eg, no paper, no book assembly, no shipping or handling.

The price for an e-book should reflect these reduced costs of production. Anyone trying to sell an e-book at the cost of the DTB version would not get my business until the price came down substantially.

I can afford full price but for me it is a matter of principle.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I agree that there are small reduced costs of production.  And this is an issue I deal with in my business on a frequent basis.  My customers do not understand that I will be charging them the same price if I print out their copy and send it to them, or if I email them a file and they print it out.  I have the same amount of preparation time.  The paper, the copying, etc. are not something I add on top of my charges.  It's just one flat fee whether I use my paper or they use theirs.  If that makes any sense.

I'll give you an example.  A few years ago I got a condensing program.  I can print 4 pages onto one.  Some of my customers could not understand why their bill did not reflect a 75% drop in price.  It was impossible to explain to some that I still had to do the work on the other 3 pages that were on that one sheet of paper.  And one of my customers was a state agency that was the hardest to convince.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

There's a joke about the consultant who is called in to fix a huge expensive machine and submits a bill for $5000.  Now, to fix the machine, he looked it over for about five minutes and then replaced one screw.  The accounting folks responded with a request for an itemized billing, being fairly flabbergasted at such a large bill for, seemingly, very little work.  This is what they got:

1 screw. . . . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . $      4.75
Knowing which one to replace. . . . . . $ 4,995.25


Ann


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

cat616 said:


> An e-book has very little production cost - eg, no paper, no book assembly, no shipping or handling.
> 
> The price for an e-book should reflect these reduced costs of production. Anyone trying to sell an e-book at the cost of the DTB version would not get my business until the price came down substantially.
> 
> I can afford full price but for me it is a matter of principle.


I don't care if the price comes down substantially. If it costs $10 for DTB, I have no problem with $10 for a kindle version *IF* the cost savings of not having to print/ship/store were turned into a larger percentage for the author or a greater number of titles available (taking risks on promoting new authors) not just lining their pockets.

Lara Amber


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

An excellent example, drenee.

Similarly -- not necessarily to book publishers, but just as a real world kind of thing -- I work in a law firm as a paralegal.  My time gets billed at a per hour fee, which includes whatever the firm thinks my time is worth plus some percentage of overhead, that presumably includes rent, electricity, the library, secretaries and other staff such as accounting and human resources that don't have their time billed to clients, all that stuff. I have no idea how they figure that number.  ON TOP OF THAT, expenses are billed separately, such as photocopies, FedEx, long distance, etc.  If I prepare and email a document to a client instead of faxing or FedExing it, the charge for my time to prepare the document isn't different just because they got the document electronically, they just don't get the fax or FedEx charge tacked on to the bill.  (My boss doesn't happen to bill through a lot of those expenses as he doesn't like to nickel-and-dime the clients to death, but a lot of our attorneys do.)

So just because a document can be provided electronically, doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot of other costs being associated to it, no matter how fair/unfair it may seem. Costs have to be associated/attributed somehow. And in the case of ebooks, even without paper or shipping and handling, there is still often proper formatting (for all the various ebook formats) and proofing and other work that goes into making one electronic file viable for selling to different ebook vendors. Even if they only have to do it once, who's to say how that cost should be attributed, to how many "copies"/sales? If it costs them $5000 to turn a book into an ebook (pulling a number out of my hat ), should they average that over 100? 500? 1000? and assume that's how many sales they will get to recoup the cost?  I don't know the answer....


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## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

However, I think we can all agree that any reduction in production cost (ie, the savings from the physical book printing/shipping) should be passed on to the consumer in some way.

I'm not saying that if the printing and distribution of the DTB is x, that I should have my eBook discounted by x. I'm simply saying I should see *some* price reduction.

A lot of work obviously does go in to the writing, editing, formatting and promoting of a book. It's just if I'm buying an eBook, I don't also want to pay for paper/printing/distribution. Who even knows what kind of fuzzy maths determine what each of those costs are!


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## GeorgeGlass (Mar 25, 2009)

Cost of production only matters in that it helps define the minimum cost.

The price will be what the market will bear most profitably. Capitalism, folks.


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## cat616 (Nov 4, 2008)

GeorgeGlass said:


> Cost of production only matters in that it helps define the minimum cost.
> 
> The price will be what the market will bear most profitably. Capitalism, folks.


Agreed! That is why I will not purchase an e-book that is at or near the DTB price. I refuse to be a part of the buying public that encourages this pricing practice!


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

cat616 said:


> Agreed! That is why I will not purchase an e-book that is at or near the DTB price. I refuse to be a part of the buying public that encourages this pricing practice!


I have no problem paying the same or close to the same price for an e-book vs a DTB if it is something I really want. To me the e-book is a superior product in many respects. I care not if the authors/publishers make more profit with e-versions. As a matter of fact I hope they do so as to encourage more of them to come over to the dark side.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Just to put things into perspective, as an author I make a better royalty on an eBook at $3.99 than the same book in print for $15.95. The difference is, for $15.95 I need to print a 598 page tome and have it shipped. The reader gets a full color original cover piece and a commodity. There's cost involved there. On a eBook, I receive a percentage from my distributor (in this case Amazon), there is no commodity, only service. Readers have already made their major investment in the reading deice, so why should they pay exorbitant amounts for the substance to fill it. The Kindle is the commodity. My words are not a commodity. The savings between the print copy of The Jade Owl and the Kindle version is $11.96 for the reader. I get an extra $ .32 in royalty if its purchased on the Kindle. That's my choice. May authors and publishers publish in print books of 300 pages in length for $21.00 plus. I take less royalties, because I write with the reader in mind and not the almighty dollar. Some author complain that although Amazon is NOT a publisher (just printer and distributor - I use Amazon for my print copies also), they take too much of a cut. However, some authors fail to realize that the distribution, printing etc is just part of the entire Amazon offering. Amazon markets and, usingits search and database, promotes books better than any publishing house could for treble the cost.

Just my 2 cents worth (or perhaps $1.40)

Edward C. Patterson


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## cat616 (Nov 4, 2008)

edwpat said:


> Just to put things into perspective, as an author I make a better royalty on an eBook at $3.99 than the same book in print for $15.95. ................
> Edward C. Patterson


IMHO $3.99 is a fair price for an e-book. I have just purchased this book as a show of faith and am happy that Edward will get an extra $0.32 in royalties.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Thank you Cat616. I appreciate the show of faith, the # .32 and the new reader - especially the new reader. I will not fail you.

Ed Patterson


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

I just was recommended (via Twitter) to the best site ever that illustrates this point for me.

http://www.shouldyoubuyabookreader.com/

It takes the books from your wish list and shows you your Kindle savings - awesome!


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

I simply look at it from the perspective that *I AM going to buy books* -- no matter what, I WILL *NOT* give up my reading habit.

So, I spent some $400 or so on my reader and accessories (so far).

Looking fairly at my reading habits I'll save in the vicinity of $30 to $60 a month in the difference between ebooks and DTB's for the reads that I"M GOING TO DO (one way or the other). At that rate the reader investment gets covered up in the first year.

Sooo, It's all pretty relative -- I can either blow this year's annual budget for books by buying a reader and several hundreds of ebooks at slightly lower prices than their DTB counterparts or basically spend the same amount buying the DTB's....

Where it gets FUN is in the subsequent years -- the way I look at it my book budget either just shrank by about $300-$400 for the same amount of books OR I get to get a whole mess MORE BOOKS for the same bucks.

And in my view *MORE BOOKS* is a very very GOOD thing!!!!


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

akjak said:


> *However, I think we can all agree that any reduction in production cost (ie, the savings from the physical book printing/shipping) should be passed on to the consumer in some way.*
> 
> I'm not saying that if the printing and distribution of the DTB is x, that I should have my eBook discounted by x. I'm simply saying I should see *some* price reduction.
> 
> A lot of work obviously does go in to the writing, editing, formatting and promoting of a book. It's just if I'm buying an eBook, I don't also want to pay for paper/printing/distribution. Who even knows what kind of fuzzy maths determine what each of those costs are!


Actually, I do not agree.

One thing that is over-looked is that many print books created losses or just break even for the publisher - it is usually just their top authors that are highly profitable, and actually "carry" the other authors.

If not passing along the little they are saving (by going e-version) makes a title (in all formats) come closer to being profitable or even break even, and that in turn allows them to take more chances on authors - then I am all for it.

And if making more of an eversion encourges them to do more eversion - then again, I see that as a benifit.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

My readers benefit, I guess, from the fact that I'm a crappy businessman and I'm retired (and also that the books are mine). The royalty for a $4 book is less than half what it is for the $21 DTB, but I don't care! Readers are happy. That's when I care!


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> My readers benefit, I guess, from the fact that I'm a crappy businessman and I'm retired (and also that the books are mine). The royalty for a $4 book is less than half what it is for the $21 DTB, but I don't care! Readers are happy. That's when I care!


And what a wonderful outlook for an author...

But this reader anyway would be just as happy if you made more!


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

BrassMan said:


> My readers benefit, I guess, from the fact that I'm a crappy businessman and I'm retired (and also that the books are mine). The royalty for a $4 book is less than half what it is for the $21 DTB, but I don't care! Readers are happy. That's when I care!


On a positive note I would be willing to bet an author would sell more than twice as many books at a $4 price point than at $21, unless of course you are a Stephen King type of author.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

TM: "But this reader anyway would be just as happy if you made more!"

If so, you're atypical. Bless you for the thought! I also offer a money-back guarantee, but I haven't yet lost anything on that yet (knock on wood). Have you tried one?

Forster: "I would be willing to bet an author would sell more than twice as many books at a $4 price point than at $21, unless of course you are a Stephen King type of author."

Exactly. The problem is, without Stephen King's ad guys, it's hard getting the word around and maybe becoming the next Stephen King. But that's OK. I'm still happy.


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> TM: "But this reader anyway would be just as happy if you made more!"
> 
> If so, you're atypical. Bless you for the thought! I also offer a money-back guarantee, but I haven't yet lost anything on that yet (knock on wood). Have you tried one?


I would not like to think I am atipical, but maybe I am. I just have no issues with people making good money (and maybe because my parents own their own business, I am self-employed, I look at it diffferently than some)....

It takes a lot of work and time to write a good book.. authors should she a decent return on that effort and time. I have no problems if it costs me more, becuase I think it is worth it... and yes, while authors do write for a joy of writing... they better they do financially from it, the better chances i have of getting more books from them (or at least sooner becuase it may allow them more time writing!)

As for publishers... so much actually goes into it when a traditional publisher releases a book. it is expensive... they too should see a decent return (along with their authors). And as i said before, a lot of books are, if not profit losers for a publisher, at the very least only break even. If the price they set ofr their electonic version help them break even or make on profit on that book - I am all for it. Especially if it means they can take more chances and publish more books....

Also, so many - when complaining about prices, look at what it costs the publisher (with no actually idea of cost involved in many cases). When i look at a price - i never even think of what it might costs to produce it (and thus think they should only get a certain profit margin or amount of profit).

f I see an ebook for say $11.99 - what matters to me is is it worth it for me at the price. I don't consider that it should be cheaper becuase I think they are making too much. In fact - if that makes gives a good profit to the author, publisher and Amazon - all the better.

Forgot to add:

I do have Distant Cousin - started to read it but couldn't get into it. That is not becuase of the writing... but it is not one of my normal genres and no sooner had i started it but my friend on my account had bought a bunch of books that were more my genres, and had been mentioning to me. I had them in the back of my head... finally just gave up and went to them.

I will probably try it again in the next week or so - well unless she goes on anlther spending spree....


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

Believe me, I know every book is not for every person, TM. If this one doesn't grab you by chapter 18 (that's p. 68 in the dtv; they're short chapters), then it's probably a lost cause. Refund time!?

I am soo happy my books are independently done. If people like them, if they ever get into the green, it's all gravy, all my doing. I never have to worry that the publisher is grabbing too much, that my cut is too small, that their sales records are bogus, that they'll go out of print and disappear. 

If I needed to make a living from my writing, then I'd be churning out stuff like Angels and Demons (though I couldn't bring myself to describe a helicopter flying at 40,000 feet, from which the main character jumps out into the Tiber without a parachute and after an hour in the hospital is back in action...no, I'm sorry, I couldn't do that).


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## docjered (Apr 12, 2009)

I know you will probably burn me in effigy for this, but I would like to be able to "give" my kindle purchased book away after I read it. Don't know exactly how that would work, but I do not really need to keep any book that I would probably not re-read. Perhaps an imbedded counter or restriction that would only allow one change of hands of an ebook? It would make it seem much more like a paper and paste physical book and would lessen the impression that a book is vapour. I do give away physical books that I have read.


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> Believe me, I know every book is not for every person, TM. If this one doesn't grab you by chapter 18 (that's p. 68 in the dtv; they're short chapters), then it's probably a lost cause. Refund time!?
> 
> I am soo happy my books are independently done. If people like them, if they ever get into the green, it's all gravy, all my doing. I never have to worry that the publisher is grabbing too much, that my cut is too small, that their sales records are bogus, that they'll go out of print and disappear.
> 
> If I needed to make a living from my writing, then I'd be churning out stuff like Angels and Demons (though I couldn't bring myself to describe a helicopter flying at 40,000 feet, from which the main character jumps out into the Tiber without a parachute and after an hour in the hospital is back in action...no, I'm sorry, I couldn't do that).


I would never ever do a refund on a book for anything other than a major problem - such as missing pages.

Is Angels and Demons really that outlandish? LOL! I think I am glad I never read it...

I can see why you would want to be independant. I do have a question though... meant in the niceist way.

Do you someitmes miss having what the publishing house offer (such as book doctors and editors) without you paying for it (well- up front anyway)? I am not saying you needed them... but did ya miss not having that support?

of course, having that input doesn;t always help... Have ya read the Vince Fynn books? He even had that and some serious issues with those books (read them back to back and you will really catch them)


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

docjered said:


> I know you will probably burn me in effigy for this, but I would like to be able to "give" my kindle purchased book away after I read it. Don't know exactly how that would work, but I do not really need to keep any book that I would probably not re-read. Perhaps an imbedded counter or restriction that would only allow one change of hands of an ebook? It would make it seem much more like a paper and paste physical book and would lessen the impression that a book is vapour. I do give away physical books that I have read.


You'll not be burned if I have anything to do with it. I feel the same way. I paid the bucks ($17) for Dreams From My Father precisely so I could riffle through it and lend it to others. I think that's a weakness in the Amazon Kindle biz plan, even though I understand why they do it that way. I'd be happy to have you share my books, for sure.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

TM said:


> I would never ever do a refund on a book for anything other than a major problem - such as missing pages.


Well, ok then. But I would. You wouldn't believe how crappily written some independent books are. I won't read a crappy book, and the author/publisher shouldn't expect to profit from it, sez me. There's just too much crap out there. Anyway, those who put out crappy books never offer refunds if not satisfied. Pardon my French.



TM said:


> Is Angels and Demons really that outlandish? LOL! I think I am glad I never read it...


My copy was. Assuming I took three hours to read it, it was like a three-hour car chase. I guess lots of people liked it. I got tired of it.



TM said:


> I can see why you would want to be independant. I do have a question though... meant in the nicest way.
> 
> Do you sometmes miss having what the publishing house offer (such as book doctors and editors) without you paying for it (well- up front anyway)? I am not saying you needed them... but did ya miss not having that support?


It's hard to miss what you've never had, but no, I don't think I miss that. I belong to several authors groups, like the Independent Authors Guild. You'd be amazed at the members who have had three, four, five, or more books traditionally published and are so tired of all the used-car-buying shenanigans that go with it that they're now confirmed independents (like me). As I said, it might be different if I HAD to live off my writing, but I don't. I used to teach my students to write to serve the reader. That's what I try to do myself.


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> You'll not be burned if I have anything to do with it. I feel the same way. I paid the bucks ($17) for Dreams From My Father precisely so I could riffle through it and lend it to others. I think that's a weakness in the Amazon Kindle biz plan, even though I understand why they do it that way. I'd be happy to have you share my books, for sure.


That is a complicated issue... I can understand why people want to share, but since it is an electronic item instead of physical... I can understand why it is not allowed.

When you lend a physical book... you do not make a copy and you do not have access to it dring the period when someone else does. With eBooks and the way Amazon is set-up, it just doesn't work well since you would be making a copy of it (both of you would still have access).

Yes, they could have a way with programming that when you trnasferred the book to another user, they book was deactivated on your Kindle... but they could only de-activate if you had whispernet one.


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> Well, ok then. But I would. You wouldn't believe how crappily written some independent books are. I won't read a crappy book, and the author/publisher shouldn't expect to profit from it, sez me. There's just too much crap out there. Anyway, those who put out crappy books never offer refunds if not satisfied. Pardon my French.
> 
> My copy was. Assuming I took three hours to read it, it was like a three-hour car chase. I guess lots of people liked it. I got tired of it.
> 
> It's hard to miss what you've never had, but no, I don't think I miss that. I belong to several authors groups, like the Independent Authors Guild. You'd be amazed at the members who have had three, four, five, or more books traditionally published and are so tired of all the used-car-buying shenanigans that go with it that they're now confirmed independents (like me). As I said, it might be different if I HAD to live off my writing, but I don't. I used to teach my students to write to serve the reader. That's what I try to do myself.


Maybe I just look at it differently - I have had some really crappy books (and not only from self-published authors). I just don't see the need for a refund... since I took the chance when buying it. It is great ya offer it... but just not something i would ever take advantage of.

When i was buying paper books.. my book store had the policy that you could take a book back for refund if you didn;t like it. Never used it (and did have some I didn't like).

I see refunds on books as for defective items, not that I didnlt like them. Although one could argues that a terribly written book is deffective.

Maybe it is becuase you can sample I feel this way... if you are buying a paper book in the store, you can flip threw pages. if buying a Kinlde Book - you can get a sample.

I would fell wrong (and this is my personal feelings for myself) if i samepled a book, read it,and then asked for a refund.

I do hope you do not get burned on your refund policy (as wonderful and caring as it is). I see people buying the book and then asking for a refund when nothing is wrong with it... they got the book, read it, and you get nothing.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

TM said:


> That is a complicated issue... I can understand why people want to share, but since it is an electronic item instead of physical... I can understand why it is not allowed.
> 
> When you lend a physical book... you do not make a copy and you do not have access to it dring the period when someone else does. With eBooks and the way Amazon is set-up, it just doesn't work well since you would be making a copy of it (both of you would still have access).


Yes, that's true. I'm minded of a recent article in the NYTimes about that issue with respect to music. It turns out that customers making copies of the music they buy has not hurt the business, quite the contrary. Apparently the music publishers are going to relax their DRM practices to allow for it. More music (pop music, not classical, I imagine) is selling than ever, despite there being more copying than ever.

I'd be willing to try that with my books. Let a thousand flowers bloom.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

TM said:


> Maybe it is becuase you can sample I feel this way... if you are buying a paper book in the store, you can flip threw pages. if buying a Kinlde Book - you can get a sample.


Agreed. Sampling, generous sampling, is a great advantage of the Kindle. On the other hand, the last few books I've bought for my Kindle, Juliet Waldron's _Mozart's Wife_, Jeff's _La Malinche_, and Mike's _In Her Name_, I just hauled off and ordered without sampling. Why? KindleBoarders' comments, that's why. What a great group!


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## TM (Nov 25, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> Yes, that's true. I'm minded of a recent article in the NYTimes about that issue with respect to music. It turns out that customers making copies of the music they buy has not hurt the business, quite the contrary. Apparently the music publishers are going to relax their DRM practices to allow for it. More music (pop music, not classical, I imagine) is selling than ever, despite there being more copying than ever.
> 
> I'd be willing to try that with my books. Let a thousand flowers bloom.


I have read some of the same stuff... but I think it is a mistake at time to compare the mucis industry to books., espially when they cpmp[are a song to a book.

One of my biggest clients has a couple of books he sells. I know that his sales would be hurt if his books were shared by making copies. Why? becuase people only need the one book that is applicible to them.

We sell cases so that each emplyee gets their own copy... if it was electronic, then he would sell one instead and each employee of the company he sells to would get a copy.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

TM said:


> I have read some of the same stuff... but I think it is a mistake at time to compare the mucis industry to books., espially when they cpmp[are a song to a book.
> 
> One of my biggest clients has a couple of books he sells. I know that his sales would be hurt if his books were shared by making copies. Why? becuase people only need the one book that is applicible to them.
> 
> We sell cases so that each emplyee gets their own copy... if it was electronic, then he would sell one instead and each employee of the company he sells to would get a copy.


Good points. I never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier. I suppose it's a slightly different issue, but I'm more familiar with college textbooks, which have gotten plumb ridiculously expensive over the years. They're going more and more to digital, and one university, I forget which, is trying to go all digital. Some profs write their own and distribute them for free. I feel sorry for publishers, actually. These have got to be hard times for them.

Hey, my wife gets up for work in six hours. I'm retired, but I at least show the flag a bit and get up with her. I need to shut this down for tonight--but I'll be glad to resume tomorrow. Fun chatting with you all!

Nighty night!


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## kyliedork (Mar 20, 2009)

I've found that there are alot of $0.99 bargins & there are 1000's of public domain works avaaible for free. With other new technology the price drops over time, so i think the prices we see now are at the high end


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## GeorgeGlass (Mar 25, 2009)

BrassMan said:


> Well, ok then. But I would. You wouldn't believe how crappily written some independent books are. I won't read a crappy book, and the author/publisher shouldn't expect to profit from it, sez me. There's just too much crap out there. Anyway, those who put out crappy books never offer refunds if not satisfied. Pardon my French.


OK, this makes me want to give your work a shot. And I think I will.


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## LDB (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm a used bookstore shopper for "gently previously appreciated" paperbacks as well as the $5.99-%6.99 tables at BN etc.. There is nothing I feel compelled to buy immediately although once in a great while I've bought the paperback new for whatever the going price was. So far my Kindle purchases have cost me $1.114 average for 160 selections so even compared to the $2.50 or so used bookstore average I'm still way ahead. My post was meant to be facetious and to point out how some folks are obsessive over ebook pricing, missing out on a good bit of enjoyment because of excessive time and stomach acid spent blogging/posting/worrying/obsessing over ebook pricing.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

LBD:

It's a good topic. As an author who needs to set the price, I know that PRICE can be a barrier to a purchase. However, since having a reader is more important than having a royalty (to me), I MUST be fastidious in my pricing so that it isn't an obstacle to the mutual goal between reader and author.

Edward C. Patterson


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## jah (Oct 28, 2008)

I notices when I was in target this weekend that some of the book I bought from amazon cost less then the Paper back from target. So I saving money on most kindle books I bye then Paper back, that not even including all the free book (public and non public domain) books from amazon and other sites.


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