# Any Other Suggestions for Freezing/Spontaneously Rebooting K3?



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

I am trying to help my SIL with her K3/wifi-3g/SO kindle.  She cannot contact KCS again until late this evening.  Here is the history:

K3 purchased new at Best Buy Nov. 2011 and kept in a non-lighted Amazon case.  Zero problems until May 15th when it froze on a special offers screen saver.  I was at her house, told her to plug it in for a full charge and then we would do a hard reset.  When the charging light turned green (it was sitting in front of us, flat on a coffee table), we disconnected it, opened the cover and the screen was obviously cracked.

I had her call KCS and a replacment Kindle was immediately sent out which she received on the 17th.  Charged up the replacement kindle, started adding back books maybe a page at a time and waiting until they were indexed (by doing a xczyk search), before adding next batch.  All seemed fine until it started freezing, spontaneously rebooting time after time and then going to the "off" (white) screen or a totally black screen.  When we would get it restarted there was always a message on the home page saying wireless needed to be turned on to download current special offers.  Wireless WAS on, the special offers were listed on the menu page, but they would not show up on the home page - just the message.  We tried turning wireless off and back on, sync & check, soft restart by menu - nothing. The replacement would freeze every time it went to sleep whether manually or by time out.

Called KCS again, they tried removing special offers from her kindle to see if that was the hang-up.  I asked about the non-lighted case as hers very clearly has the gold-colored metal hinges and was told that was no longer a problem...they sent a second replacement which arrived the 22nd.  This replacement is not listed as a special offers kindle and the regular screensavers were in place.  Today this 3rd kindle (2nd replacement) started freezing.  I convinced her to remove it from the non-lighted case, she charged it and tried rebooting, holding the switch for 20-40-60-90 seconds.  It finally restarted after several attempts where the screen with the progress bar would appear but then freeze about a quarter of the way across (we left it sit for 30 minutes at one point and no further progress was made).  The time was off by several hours which she manually reset, did not turn wireless on and commenced reading again.

Problem still not solved.  When the kindle goes to sleep (manually or by time out), it freezes.  Attempted restarts bring up the "original" Amazon screen, NOT the boy under the tree screensaver, with no progress bar and nothing else happens-stuck...

She will call KCS again when she gets home from work tonight.  In the meantime, can you think of anything I haven't tried?  Something else to try if we can get back to a home screen?  Can there be a corrupted book file (she only has books from Amazon) that would cause these symptoms even if everything appears to be indexed?


----------



## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Although your description is very detailed, there's one thing I'd still be suspicious of, and that's the case. 

Despite anything Amazon says, there may still be faulty cases floating about in the system.

Take the Kindle out of the case, and leave it out for now. Put the case a long long way away, don't be tempted to put it back in until we're sure what's going on, and see what happens then.

Jiffy bags make an excellent temporary case!  

How many books are you loading?


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Yes, I know I have a wall of text up there, but I did convince her to remove the 2nd replacement from the case and to never use it again.  It hasn't helped.

With the 2nd replacement kindle she only redownloaded 50 books at about 20 books at a time.  No indexing problems come up in a silly search after each bath.  There are maybe a dozen freebies sitting in the queue waiting for wifi/3g to be turned on.


----------



## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

Does your SIL have a very large ebook library? If so, that _could_ be the problem, whether all the ebooks are downloaded to her Kindle or only archived at Amazon. I hope it's okay to post a link to a thread at another ebook forum that discusses the issue: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173620.

Please let us know if you find a solution to the problem!


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Interesting thread, DreamWeaver!  If MY K3-wifi only ever starts doing this, that could be a problem with the number of books in my archive, I suppose.  But no, she and my sister share an account and have less than 1,000 books total.  Plus, she hasn't turned wifi/3G in the last 24 hours and it was working fine before that.

Always good to know another trigger to check.  Thanks for answering.


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Out of curiosity after reading a couple of other threads, is deregistering and reregistering something worth trying?  If we do, what's the best sequence?  Deregister, try a restart and then reregister?  Or deregister, register and then restart?  Return to factory settings, if we can get to the home screen, without deregistering?


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

The only time I had freezing problems with my K3 were when I had a boatload of books on there. Once I was reading it was generally fine, but any other functions were really slow and, every so often, it'd just give up. So I did a factory reset and then only loaded part of my library. It's been fine ever since. I actually even have the original hinge cover but it's never caused me any problems.

Anyway, it sounds like you've eliminated everything I can think of;

cover
too many books
unindexed/corrupt book -- if it's corrupt it won't index so would show when you did your nonsense search

Are any of the things she has Apps?. . . . I have a vague recollection of them sometimes causing problems because they require, relatively, so much processing power.

Is she electric?  Only half joking here. . . I've heard of people who, for whatever reason, have a higher than normal bodily electric charge and sometimes have issues with electronics.

Or is there some new electrical field in the area that wasn't there before? . . . . .I know. . .I'm really going off the wall here. . . . .



crebel said:


> Out of curiosity after reading a couple of other threads, is deregistering and reregistering something worth trying? If we do, what's the best sequence? Deregister, try a restart and then reregister? Or deregister, register and then restart? Return to factory settings, if we can get to the home screen, without deregistering?


I wouldn't think so. . . the only time I've heard that suggested is when the collections have gone wonky. But it certainly couldn't hurt. I'd maybe try resetting to factory settings first. That's kind of like "reformat the c:\ drive" so should clear out any wayward electrons.


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Morf said:


> Although your description is very detailed, there's one thing I'd still be suspicious of, and that's the case.
> 
> Despite anything Amazon says, there may still be faulty cases floating about in the system.


This.

I went through several rebooting K3s and finally, in spite of what Amazon said, replaced the unlighted cover with one that uses elastic corners. The problem went away.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah. . . but crebel said she already suggested this and the 2nd replacement has been naked and is still having issues. . . . . .


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh. I missed that. Sorry.


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

But the 2nd replacement wasn't nekkid until it started acting screwy.  It has been removed from the case and rebooted at least once where it appeared to be working before acting wonky again.  My understanding is that removal and leaving it out of the case solves the problem (if that's where the problem originated), is that wrong?  Are there instances where having had it in the case at all leads to some sort of permanent short circuit even after it is removed?


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

crebel said:


> But the 2nd replacement wasn't nekkid until it started acting screwy. It has been removed from the case and rebooted at least once where it appeared to be working before acting wonky again. My understanding is that removal and leaving it out of the case solves the problem (if that's where the problem originated), is that wrong? Are there instances where having had it in the case at all leads to some sort of permanent short circuit even after it is removed?


confused: so, it's out of the case now. . .and is it screwy or not since it's been out of the case?

I do not believe the case issues were ever permanent. . .once the case stopped being used, the kindle was just fine from then on. It was the hinges touching something in the kindles that caused the shorts. No hinges --> no touching --> no shorts.


----------



## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Yes, I'd agree with Ann, the case problems only occurred when the Kindle was in the case. If you've used it out of the case and are still having reboots, then that excludes the case from the equation and you can go back to using it.

Oh, and it was only a very tiny proportion of cases that caused a problem - probably a manufacturing issue.

I've got a K3 with an unlighted case, it's never caused me any problems. I know several people who also have them without problem, and one person who did have a bad case (which Amazon replaced).

Ann has some good suggestions higher up the thread (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,115204.msg1719871.html#msg1719871) which you might want to work through.


----------



## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Is she electric?  Only half joking here. . . I've heard of people who, for whatever reason, have a higher than normal bodily electric charge and sometimes have issues with electronics.


I have heard of this too. Also, atmospheric conditions (wind/low humidity), carpeting, and indoor heating (dry air) can create static electricity. I'd be very interested to know if the cause of the problem is identified.


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Update:  It is out of the case permanently and has been since this morning.  It is still acting wonky.  When I started this thread the screen was frozen and would not reboot.  It rebooted spontaneously at some point while she was in Best Buy looking for a new case.  She has it home now, recharged, rebooted (again spontaneously) and any action causes it to freeze and then start spontaneously rebooting without touching the slider bar...

I guess another call to KCS is in order.  Sigh...


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I did a reset to factory defaults after I removed the case.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

A factory reset might be worth trying, if you've not done it since removing it from the case. . .but it sounds like trying to do anything causes it to freak out. . . .I'm afraid you're right -- need to make another call to Kindle CS.


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

3rd replacement is on the way.  KCS representative was very sympathetic, but didn't offer any other suggestions to try.  Just immediately said "sorry, we will send you another Kindle right away."  She should have replacement #3 by Saturday...


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Latest update:  No solutions in sight.  After speaking with KCS on Thursday where they said they were sending a 3rd replacement via 2-day delivery, she got an e-mail that the newest Kindle would be here on Tuesday not today (Saturday) as we anticipated and, of course, US holiday on Monday.

After being able to get the 2nd replacement restarted on Friday morning, it froze again Friday afternoon and would not restart again, just continual rebooting and freezing.  This afternoon we actually got the homepage back again and tried a factory reset.  It actually did that fairly quickly and she did not re-register it, but started reading the User Guide.  Again it froze and then spontaneously rebooted (possibly reinstalling the 3.3 update, we thought).  Started reading the user guide again, frozen on a page turn and now going through another reboot.

Amazon did maintain the no special offers, so this is a KK 3G/wifi w/o special offers at factory defaults, unregistered (so no archives), fully charged and not in any case.  Still not working.  Hopefully, the 3rd replacement on Tuesday will be the charm...


----------



## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

crebel said:


> Hopefully, the 3rd replacement on Tuesday will be the charm...


I certainly hope so!


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

crebel said:


> Latest update: No solutions in sight. After speaking with KCS on Thursday where they said they were sending a 3rd replacement via 2-day delivery, she got an e-mail that the newest Kindle would be here on Tuesday not today (Saturday) as we anticipated and, of course, US holiday on Monday.


Sorry to hear the new K won't be there sooner! Keep us posted.

Betsy


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

The fourth KK (3rd replacement) arrived on Tuesday as promised, and seems to be working properly and well.  Whew!

The first two replacements may have just been lemons and I don't know why we weren't able to fix them.  There are two differences in this last replacement and I don't know whether they provide any insight.

  1.  This replacement was NEVER (and never will be) in the Amazon unlighted cover with the metal tabs.  I know others had similar problems and removed them from the covers found that their Kindles worked properly after removal and a final reset.  Hers never did, and I don't know if the time spent in the cover created some sort of permanent short circuit that continued after removal.

  2.  This replacement did not already have the 3.3 update out of the box.  It did update to 3.3 as soon as wireless was turned on.  That led me to wonder whether this replacement was a NEW Kindle rather than a refurb that hadn't really been tested.  Impossible to know for sure.

Thanks for all the advice trying to help me help my SIL!  All is well again.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Glad it appears to be sorted.  I'm sure it's frustrating but, as usual, Amazon has come through.


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Glad it appears to be sorted. I'm sure it's frustrating but, as usual, Amazon has come through.


Yes, and I should have mentioned that in my post. Once again, Amazon KCS is terrific. The fact that they sent 3 replacement kindles to her in the space of two weeks until one was working properly is a real testament to their great customer service.


----------



## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

crebel said:


> 1. This replacement was NEVER (and never will be) in the Amazon unlighted cover with the metal tabs. I know others had similar problems and removed them from the covers found that their Kindles worked properly after removal and a final reset. Hers never did, and I don't know if the time spent in the cover created some sort of permanent short circuit that continued after removal.


You might want to raise this concern with Kindle CS. Personally, I'm entirely sure that the bad cases only caused problems while the Kindle was in the case, and I've never heard of a Kindle being permanently damaged by the case. However, if you don't want to take the chance (and I understand why!) then you might want to talk to KCS and say that you have no confidence in the case, and want to return it for a refund. Worth a try if you're not going to use it!


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Morf said:


> You might want to raise this concern with Kindle CS. Personally, I'm entirely sure that the bad cases only caused problems while the Kindle was in the case, and I've never heard of a Kindle being permanently damaged by the case. However, if you don't want to take the chance (and I understand why!) then you might want to talk to KCS and say that you have no confidence in the case, and want to return it for a refund. Worth a try if you're not going to use it!


I did bring that up when I talked with KCS in the conversation about the first going-haywire replacement. The representative said they did not believe there were any faulty cases still out there and that even if the case had been the problem, it would have been solved by removal so they were no longer doing replacements or refunds.

SIL removed the tabs from the case and has the new Kindle velcroed in the now tabless case while she decides what kind of a new case she wants.


----------



## Ptaker (Jun 4, 2012)

Another K3 user (wifi only No Ads) with the same problem. K3 unit did a factory reset on its own and then several reboots (boy under the tree) in the year I had the unit. 

Specs: Under 200 books, no other programs like Calendar, etc. No metal cover, just Timbuk2 sleeve. 

Notified Amazon and received a new K3 two days ago. Set up the wifi, registered it with Amazon, unit upgraded to version 3.3 of the software. Restored under 200 books via Calibre. After one day of use, the K3 screen saver showed the boy under the tree, which indicates it did a reboot.

NOTE: My granddaughter also has the same K3 unit and it too periodically shows the boy under the tree. No factory reset to date. Uses the non metallic Timbuk2 cover, under 200 books and a different list of books on her machine.

Why the resets on two different K3 units? Amazon says it isn't the software but hardware. They did ping my unit. It took three months to get the new K3. Same problem.


----------



## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

Ptaker, there is a standard screensaver image with the boy under the tree. On my K2 it has the definition of the word Kindle. I have seen a similar one on my mom's K3 which does not have any problems. 

An image of the boy under the tree only indicates a reboot if there is also the progress bar underneath.


----------



## Ptaker (Jun 4, 2012)

Thank for for the quick response. I thought the boy under the tree only appeared after a reboot. 

Since we cannot watch the K3 all the time to catch the progress bar, how do we know if the K3 just put a screensaver on the screen or that it rebooted and the boy under the tree was the end result? Are there any differences between the two pictures? Any clue. 

I never caught the factory reboot that happened once but the end result was the boy under the tree and NO books and all the settings reset.


----------



## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Ptaker, the sleepscreen picture of the boy under the tree and the reboot screen are slightly different.  The sleepscreen picture, as Anna says above, has the definition of "kindle" underneath it and you will see it in the regular rotation of screensavers if you pay attention.

If you repeat putting your kindle to sleep and waking it back up, you can cycle through all the screensavers (maybe 20?) to see what they are and they will come up in the same order each time.

The reboot screen of the tree does not have any wording underneath it.  If you see it while it is rebooting, there is an oval progress bar across the bottom which goes away after the reboot is complete.

Maybe someone will come along to post (or point us to where they have already been posted) screenshots of the two different screens.  I bet what you are seeing now is the regular sleepscreen and not a reboot.

p.s.  Welcome to Kindleboards!


----------



## Ptaker (Jun 4, 2012)

Kindle K3 (with wifi no ads) boy under the tree screensavers for factory reboot and regular screen.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Note that the one on the left is also the what you see after a simple restart. . . .it is extremely rare -- I'd have said not possible but apparently it's happened -- for the kindle to reset itself to factory conditions on it's own.  But there are multiple reports of rebooting.  It's important to understand the difference.  

You can restart (reboot) via the menu: menu/settings/menu/restart or by holding the power switch for 30-40 seconds.  This operation doesn't remove any of your content it just restarts the device.  If wireless is OFF, it will seem like your archives are gone, but that's just because it doesn't know about them. . .as soon as you turn on wireless and do a sync it'll repopulate the archive which are, after all, not ON the device but at Amazon.  This is also what has been known to happen spontaneously. . . .usually associated with a short from the case but if you have a LOT of books that can affect performance and may trigger spontaneous restarts.  I, personally, think it's not a bad thing to periodically do a restart just to clear the stray electrons out.   Still, if it's doing it on it's own with some frequency for no apparent reason, it's probably time to contact Kindle CS.

A Factory reset can be done via menu/settings/menu/reset to factory.  I do not believe there is any other way to do it.  So if you don't have button control, you can't do it at all.  You can do a restart, but not a factory reset.  And I don't quite see how it could do it by itself randomly as it's not a hardware triggered action. I guess I'd say if a kindle really has done this on it's own, it's definitely time to contact Kindle CS because that's absolutely not normal. When you do this, it basically returns the Kindle to like new condition.  There will be no books on it; nothing except the Users Guide.  You may have to re-register it to the account after doing this as it may have forgotten who it belongs to.  You'll definitely have to re-enter any wifi credentials or personal information that had been stored.


----------



## Ptaker (Jun 4, 2012)

Am I to understand that by holding the start switch for 15 seconds to put it to sleep without a screensaver and then turn it on, you are in effect restarting the K3? You won't lose any books on the K3 even if the wifi is off.

In my problem, the K3 itself did a factory reboot once and wiped out everything on it. After that I saw periodic K3 restarts. Now I have a new K3 and will see if the problem persists.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

If you hold the switch for just a second or two it goes to sleep. There will be an image on the screen. If you hold it 15-20 seconds, you've turned it off. There's no image on the screen. The difference is that, while sleeping, if WiFi is still on, it will periodically check for items. If it's off, WiFi is off as well even if you'd not turned it off before turning the whole device off.

Most of us find that there is not need to put the kindle all the way OFF; we just let it sleep. Though Amazon does advise that if you don't expect to use it for several weeks, that it's better to turn it all the way off. I personally have never done anything but put my kindles to sleep. . .and I've had several. Only a very few times have I had the power drain while they slept enough that they had to be charged before turning back on.

To do a manual _restart_ you hold the button for 30-40 seconds. And then release. It might not appear to do anything right away but within a few minutes it will go through the restart cycle. You shouldn't lose any content or settings, though if WiFi is off you won't see archives afterward until you've turned it on and synced.

It sounds like your old K3 was faulty. . . .hopefully there will be no problems with the new one.


----------

