# So apparently Price really *doesn't* matter



## RonnellDPorter (Apr 20, 2010)

My October Fright sale, wherein all of my books are 0.99 cents, has had a very slight increase of books sold, but overall not a very huge difference (aside from taking a huge cut in royalties). 67 from October 1st to date. I think I've proven to myself once and for all, as I had a couple of times before, that price really doesn't matter. If someone wants to read your story they'll buy it. If not, they'll pass it up, even on a discount.

Anyone else had a similar experience?


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks for the info--you had it at 99 cents for just one day? Have you gone back to your original price?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Whether the 99 cent price does you any good seems to vary a LOT based partly on timing, as far as I can tell.  Also, if you get picked up by some blog that lists "deals" will give you a temporary bump.

Right now everybody seems to be having a slump and I agree with those who say that the free books deal probably means customers aren't shopping as much right now.

Also, I agree with Lee Goldberg that as the big publishers get the idea that they should offer more books at a reasonable price, that will affect our competition.  (Also, as more midlist writers jump from their publishers and publish their own backlist, that gives us more competition.)  

IMHO, lowering the price is like every other marketing ploy: it will do the most good when it's a novelty. "NEW! NEW! NEW"

Camille


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

My experience was totally different.  I dropped my price to 99 cents and started selling more than 6x the books.  Usually I sell more than 12x the books, as my average before my price drop was 3 books a day, and now it's over 36 a day.

But, of course, everyone's experiences are different.  I've heard of others who dropped their price and didn't make the 6x sales to make up for it.

Vicki


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## RonnellDPorter (Apr 20, 2010)

> Thanks for the info--you had it at 99 cents for just one day? Have you gone back to your original price?


No, I have it at 99 cents from October 1st to October 31st - doesn't go back up to $4.99 (2.99 for the shorter books, respectively) until November 1st. But I've sold almost as much as I would have had the prices stayed the same. I _wish_ I was having Vicki's experience, but as it is I must have taken some Kindle Fiber because my sales are pretty regular  lol


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## julieannfelicity (Jun 28, 2010)

I've changed my price twice and I'm sticking with the .99.  I've sold more at .99 than I did when it was $5.99 or $2.99 (surprisingly I sold more at $5.99 than I did at $2.99 - but they were priced like that for very long so).

I'm still not selling thousands of books.  I'm lucky if I have 1 a day.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

This is just my two cents as a reader, so I'm not sure how much good it'll do you, but...

1) I had no idea your books were on sale - sorry  
2) I'm actually not doing a lot of shopping right now.  Not sure why not, but... I've got a boatload of books right now.  Although, I did recently grab "Take the Monkeys and Run".  The title cracked me up 
3) At $2.99 I tend to sample if a book looks interesting.  I currently have 30 samples in my Samples collection, just to give you an idea.  This means it may take a while for me to get to a book.
4) At $.99 if a book looks interesting I get it.
5) There have been some books lately that look interesting but are priced at $3.99.  I'm seriously balking at paying $3.99 for an indie book (don't ask me why - I haven't analyzed it) and I haven't even downloaded samples of those.

Anyway, not sure if that's helpful or not - it's just one person's buying / shopping habits, but I hope it does give you a little "market insight".


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

Arkali said:


> This is just my two cents as a reader, so I'm not sure how much good it'll do you, but...
> 
> 1) I had no idea your books were on sale - sorry
> 2) I'm actually not doing a lot of shopping right now. Not sure why not, but... I've got a boatload of books right now. Although, I did recently grab "Take the Monkeys and Run". The title cracked me up
> ...


thanks so much for this info! It's really helpful.

I suppose if each writer looked at his/her own buying habits, it would help too. I personally, love a good deal, and I figure any book below 5 books is a good deal. But with so many free and .99 centers out there, it's tough competition.

t


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## Holly A Hook (Sep 19, 2010)

36 books a day?  Wow.  Just...wow.  

Right now, I sell about 1 book per day (I only just started seeing sales at the end of September, so I haven't got much momentum yet.)  I had my price at 99 cents most of the time, then raised it to 2.99 and saw a couple of sales for the very short time it was there.  Then Amazon slashed my price back down to 99 cents (not sure why) and I seem to be back where I was.  

I did hear somewhere that 2.99 tends to bring in the most sales, but I haven't been in this long enough to know for sure yet.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

theapatra said:


> thanks so much for this info! It's really helpful.
> 
> I suppose if each writer looked at his/her own buying habits, it would help too. I personally, love a good deal, and I figure any book below 5 books is a good deal. But with so many free and .99 centers out there, it's tough competition.
> 
> t


You're welcome  I wasn't trying to be argumentative, but just throw myself out there for poking and prodding  I'll also say that so far:
* I don't really look at a lot of blogs / reviews
* I don't randomly browse Amazon as I would a book store - ie. I don't type "urban fantasy" in and see what pops up
* My main method of finding indie authors so far has been signatures here on the Kindle boards. Cover and blurb in the signature have been what's consistently drawn my eye.

Speaking of the above - Ronnell, you might consider putting a little one-liner in your sig that says you're doing an October Fright sale. I'd have definitely taken note  Speaking of which - I need to go shop - I've had my eye on some of your books


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2010)

Holly A Hook said:


> Then Amazon slashed my price back down to 99 cents (not sure why) and I seem to be back where I was.


You probably have your book priced at 99 cents somewhere else and Amazon found out about it.

When I raised my price to 2.99, there was a huge dropoff in sales that continued to grow over time. It became a no-brainer to bring it back to .99.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

I got a notice today that me & my book will be featured on the Indie Spotlight on Friday. I wonder whether I should do a 1-day sale for that day. Hmmm.


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## Dawn Judd (Jun 8, 2010)

I've actually sold more per month every month since raising my price to $2.99.  Not sure why, but there it is.  I probably should've dropped it for my KindleBoards sponsorship, but thought about it too late.  I think that particular instance would've helped.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Ronnell - I totally agree with Arkali - I did put my price in my sig line and I'm sure that helps with sales.

Also, where have you announced the price drop?  Did you venture on over to the forums that must not be named?  (Saw a great number of sales over there after starting a thread about the 99 cent price.)

Once you get a decent bump in sales you start getting on some lists... people who bought also bought... and that definitely helps keep the sales steady.

Hope that helps.

Vicki


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Vicki,
I hadn't thought to put price in the sig-line. Hmnnn. Two of mine are at $5.99 and selling okay, and two at $3.99...one selling like hotcakes, the other so new it's hard to say. My next one comes out at $2.99. So I suppose I could put a note they're priced $2.99-$5.99 (still a huge drop from the print versions at $14.99 and up). 

Originally I had one priced at $7.99 and it sold 10 copies in the first month...so I dropped the price, and it sold even fewer and only now has started back up. I'm just not going to value the years of research at less than what's currently priced, especially since it took several weeks to update for the 2nd editions. I'm told nonfiction doesn't sell all that well on kindle anyway so I've been pleased with the sales. More than I had when they were out of print!


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## Holly A Hook (Sep 19, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> You probably have your book priced at 99 cents somewhere else and Amazon found out about it.
> 
> When I raised my price to 2.99, there was a huge dropoff in sales that continued to grow over time. It became a no-brainer to bring it back to .99.


I think I know where the problem is. There's still a book at 99 cents at B and N from Smashwords that I'm waiting for them to take off. (All my others are 2.99.) Unfortunately for B and N the process can take up to eight weeks.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Arkali said:


> 5) There have been some books lately that look interesting but are priced at $3.99. I'm seriously balking at paying $3.99 for an indie book (don't ask me why - I haven't analyzed it) and I haven't even downloaded samples of those.


OOooops. Just lost another sale.

"DOH!"
-Homer (No, not _THAT_ Homer)
Famous Beer Taster, Couch Potato, Dad of the Year, and Nukular Technician


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

R. Doug said:


> OOooops. Just lost another sale.
> 
> "DOH!"
> -Homer (No, not THAT Homer)
> Famous Beer Taster, Couch Potato, Dad of the Year, and Nukular Technician


Sowwy...


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I did put my price in my sig line and I'm sure that helps with sales.
> Vicki


What a good idea. I think I'll borrow that one.
Dawn


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

RonnellDPorter said:


> My October Fright sale, wherein all of my books are 0.99 cents, has had a very slight increase of books sold, but overall not a very huge difference (aside from taking a huge cut in royalties). 67 from October 1st to date. I think I've proven to myself once and for all, as I had a couple of times before, that price really doesn't matter. If someone wants to read your story they'll buy it. If not, they'll pass it up, even on a discount.
> 
> Anyone else had a similar experience?


Thanks for sharing your experience. I was contemplating decreasing my price for a short while, but I think I'll study the iue a bit longer.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> However, I did reach 6 more readers than I would have otherwise.
> 
> Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I reckon.


I was one of the six  As a result, when I read Secrets if I like it (which I'm sure I will) I'll immediately buy Book 2, and then immediately buy subsequent books, for whatever that's worth


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Fwiw, as a reader, I feel much the same as Arkali. 

For $.99, I'll take a chance based on reviews and the description.
For $2.99, I'll typically sample first.
For $3.99+, I must have previously read and enjoyed one of the author's other books.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Amyshojai said:


> Vicki,
> I hadn't thought to put price in the sig-line. Hmnnn. Two of mine are at $5.99 and selling okay, and two at $3.99...one selling like hotcakes, the other so new it's hard to say. My next one comes out at $2.99. So I suppose I could put a note they're priced $2.99-$5.99 (still a huge drop from the print versions at $14.99 and up).
> 
> Originally I had one priced at $7.99 and it sold 10 copies in the first month...so I dropped the price, and it sold even fewer and only now has started back up. I'm just not going to value the years of research at less than what's currently priced, especially since it took several weeks to update for the 2nd editions. I'm told nonfiction doesn't sell all that well on kindle anyway so I've been pleased with the sales. More than I had when they were out of print!


You're selling non-fiction, which is a different beast, all together. Non-fiction typically sells for more. I wish I could enjoy writing non-fiction. But I think it's great you found a subject that you enjoy writing about!

As for me I brought Little Peach King because it was 99 cents. At $2.99 it would have sat on my, "to buy" list for awhile.

I'm thinking of lowering the price on my short collection to 99 cents as well' so, thanks for all the great info!


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

RonnellDPorter said:


> My October Fright sale, wherein all of my books are 0.99 cents, has had a very slight increase of books sold, but overall not a very huge difference (aside from taking a huge cut in royalties). 67 from October 1st to date. I think I've proven to myself once and for all, as I had a couple of times before, that price really doesn't matter. If someone wants to read your story they'll buy it. If not, they'll pass it up, even on a discount.
> 
> Anyone else had a similar experience?


Ronnell, try promoting your price drop with ireaderreview and Paula.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

http://www.thefrugalereader.com/

Here's another one too. They found my book, but I'm sure you could email them and mention the sale.

Vicki


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## dlanzarotta (Jul 14, 2010)

RonnellDPorter said:


> ...If someone wants to read your story they'll buy it. If not, they'll pass it up, even on a discount.


I think that is what it comes down to. I have a Halloween sale through my website right now and the numbers are the same.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

This price thing is such a weird gamble to me--like the stock market. It seems like it should have some kind of scientific logic to it, but it really doesn't. Perhaps someone who made better grades in math than I did can explain it to me. 

That said, I am selling more books at $0.99 than I did at $2.99, though, so I'm going to leave _Witch Awakening_ at $0.99 and then charge $2.99 for the sequel, since I figure most people who enjoyed _Witch Awakening_ will probably be willing to pay more for the sequel, and those who haven't read any of the series will start with _Witch Awakening_ anyway. So . . . best of luck to all of you and have a good night . . .


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## Paul J Coleman (Jun 24, 2010)

RonnellDPorter said:


> If someone wants to read your story they'll buy it. If not, they'll pass it up, even on a discount.


I agree. We need to increase the _perceived _value and leverage of our works to capture customers.

Paul


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## karencantwell (Jun 17, 2010)

Thank you, Arkali for buying my book!  

As for my buying practices - I'm much the same.  .99 cents is a no-brainer if it looks even mildly interesting to me.  $1.99 I give it just a bit more thought.  $2.99 and $3.99 I sample first (generally, unless it's in a series and I liked the first, etc.).  On principle, I won't pay over $9.99 for a book on Kindle, but I'll pay up to that amount for one that I really want to read.

.99 cents has been a winner for me, I have to say.  I'm likely going to reach my goal in just a day or two of selling 4000 books in the first four months on Kindle.  That's several thousand readers I'm sure I wouldn't have had if I'd stayed at $2.99.  For me, like I've said before, it's about building a readership right now.  

Oh, and I like the idea of putting the .99 cent price in the signature line.  I'll have to do that once I remember how the heck to edit that thing . . .


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> and those who haven't read any of the series will start with _Witch Awakening_ anyway. So . . . best of luck to all of you and have a good night . . .


Am hoping for a similar situation with our 2-part series.... will be interesting to see.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I've heard of others who dropped their price and didn't make the 6x sales to make up for it.


You can file me into that category, too.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> Whether the 99 cent price does you any good seems to vary a LOT based partly on timing, as far as I can tell. Also, if you get picked up by some blog that lists "deals" will give you a temporary bump.
> 
> Right now everybody seems to be having a slump and I agree with those who say that the free books deal probably means customers aren't shopping as much right now.
> 
> ...


Yes, Camille, I agree with you on this. Especially the idea that a lot of midlist writers will be descending on Kindle to sell their series and books, and as established authors, they'll increase the competition. As I've said before on these threads, I feel like this is a window that's been opened for us 'Indies'. It won't remain open as wide for as long as we like it. So everyone, make hay!


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

I think it depends on your audience.  Some are willing to pay more and not think about it.  Some aren't.  Nature of the beast, if you will.

BTW, Holly Hook: hello neighbor!  (I'm not far from you)


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

callingcrow said:


> Yes, Camille, I agree with you on this. Especially the idea that a lot of midlist writers will be descending on Kindle to sell their series and books, and as established authors, they'll increase the competition. As I've said before on these threads, I feel like this is a window that's been opened for us 'Indies'. It won't remain open as wide for as long as we like it. So everyone, make hay!


Couldn't agree more . . . I think we're all coming along at a great time to establish ourselves, especially before traditional publishers get the hang of this e-book thing, which they don't quite seem to have yet.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2010)

I've said this before:  are you a BRAND or are you a COMMODITY?  If you are a brand, customers will pay whatever price you set so long as you have a strong, value-added brand.  If you are a commodity, low price always wins.

Branding takes longer, but is more sustainable and builds customer loyalty.  Commodities sell faster in the short term, but you lose customer loyalty over time because these customers jump ship for even lower prices.  

If a person says to me, "I don't know if I would pay $4.99 for your ebook" then that tells me I have not done my job building my brand.  Maybe I can intice that person with a coupon or a bogo or something, but I'm still going to preserve my price because I have a solid core of customers willing to pay that price, nd I don't want to dilute my brand reaching for low hanging fruit.

But if someone tells me "Oh, I NEVER spend $4.99 for any ebook" then that person isn't of any interest to me, and I'm not gonna destroy my brand to appease a person that places price over quality, particularly when you are talking about a mere couple of dollars.  So what if someone "can buy five books for the price of your one book."  You know, I can buy a dozen Dollar General inkpens for 99 cents, but when I have to use an inkpen for long periods of time I want my $2 ballpoint with the cushy grip.  Sure, I'll get more pens with the Dollar General pens, but I get more pleasure writing out of my cushy grip.   I can play a dozen different online games for free, but when I really want to game I log on to my $15/month World of Warcraft account, and no free game even comes close to me.  

Then again, I don't chase volume.  I'm not selling a thousand copies a month from any one title.  But I am selling a consistent volume on ALL titles each month, and I can almost guarantee a certain sales volume for any given new release.  My customers don't buy one book at 99 cents and forget about me.  They come back again and again and buy other books.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I've said this before: are you a BRAND or are you a COMMODITY? If you are a brand, customers will pay whatever price you set so long as you have a strong, value-added brand. If you are a commodity, low price always wins.
> 
> Branding takes longer, but is more sustainable and builds customer loyalty. Commodities sell faster in the short term, but you lose customer loyalty over time because these customers jump ship for even lower prices.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. However - you aren't a brand if nobody knows who you are. Big companies entice new customers ALL the time by sending out free samples, coupons, etc. because they are banking on the consumer liking the product SO much that they will buy it again at full price later on down the road. A .99 cent price on a first novel is the equivalent, IMO, of "Try me, you'll like me!". I've got a bunch of authors sitting in my samples folder waiting to be read (over 30). How long will they sit there? I dunno. It's kind of Russian roulette. I may read a sample tomorrow, I may read it 6 weeks from now, or 6 months.

On the other hand, I purchased David Dalglish's The Weight of Blood for 99 cents and was impressed enough that I IMMEDIATELY bought the next two books in the series. Guardian of the Mountain and Book 4 of his series were both purchased the first opportunity that I had after finding out that they'd gone live. There are several other authors on this board whose first book I purchased at 99 cents and I'm EAGERLY awaiting future books by them. Trust me, if your work is good, I'm not going to stop buying it just because prices on subsequent books aren't the .99 cent intro price.

That said, my price ceilings are for UNTRIED authors. By and large, a $2.99 indie will be sampled first, whereas .99 cents will be bought outright. If you're happy for me (and others who share my buying habits) to take months before we "ripen", that's cool. I just think a .99 cent INTRO price is a good way to jump-start that brand building.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Big companies entice new customers ALL the time by sending out free samples, coupons, etc. because they are banking on the consumer liking the product SO much that they will buy it again at full price later on down the road. .


And what most people don't understand is the enormous psychological difference between "WOW! This item costs $4.99 but I can get it with a coupon for $2.99" and "This item is always 99 cents. I use coupons, bogo deals, and samples all the time...but I ALWAYS preserve my price. Just dropping your price to 99 cents isn't a sale or an inventive psychologically unless you specifically target commodity shoppers looking for 99 cent deals.



> That said, my price ceilings are for UNTRIED authors.


Ah yes, the "unknown authors have to sell low" arguement. But ALL AUTHORS are UNKNOWN to a portion of the demographic. Do you know who Kevin Siembieda is? Most people on these boards wouldn't. He's UNKNOWN to them. But go to a gaming convention and check out the line for his booth, because in the gaming community everyone knows the man behind Palladium Books. A lot of people don't know who Tanith Lee is unless they are avid horror fans. Everyone knows the movie The Last Airbender, but how many people recognize the name of the original series' creators Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko?

The point being, you don't become a brand by selling your stuff at 99 cents. You become a brand by branding. That means spending a lot of time building a fan base the old fashion way.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> And what most people don't understand is the enormous psychological difference between "WOW! This item costs $4.99 but I can get it with a coupon for $2.99" and "This item is always 99 cents. I use coupons, bogo deals, and samples all the time...but I ALWAYS preserve my price. Just dropping your price to 99 cents isn't a sale or an inventive psychologically unless you specifically target commodity shoppers looking for 99 cent deals.


Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty sure that most people are smart enough to realize that when an author has one book at 99 cents and 5 others at $2.99 that the $.99 is a sale / special offer. I don't need to be hit in the head with it. As for coupons and BOGOs - while cool, that honestly too much of a pain in the tail _for me_. Again - all I'm talking about is MY personal buying habits. I may be the only one in the world who shops this way, but I'm also being honest as I can in an effort to help.

My typical method of trying a previously untried INDIE author:
If your book catches my eye in your signature, I click on your link and go to Amazon. Based on price (see up-thread), overall review rating, cover, whether or not you seem nice on the boards I will either sample you or buy outright. Once I've read your book or sample, price becomes much less of a factor, but books I buy outright will be read sooner than samples.

What I do NOT do:
I don't "browse" Amazon - ie. I don't search by genre. The most browsing I've done is click on a "You might also like..." link, and that's EXTREMELY rare.
I don't read blogs / book review sites.
I don't cruise web sites (unless I'm already a fan and looking for more info).
I'm not worrying about coupons / free downloads if I have to go to other sites to take advantage of it.

It seems counter-intuitive because I'm yelling about the difference between one dollar and three, but truthfully, I'm not going to go to the trouble of a drawn-out process for product that's less than $5. Making me go to another site and download this and that - you aren't just avoiding low-hanging fruit, you're putting out obstacles.

Disclaimer: I'm offering up myself as Joe Average consumer (or maybe not - I could be weird ) and enjoying the debate. Hopefully I'm not frustrating or irritating anyone


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty sure that most people are smart enough to realize that when an author has one book at 99 cents and 5 others at $2.99 that the $.99 is a sale / special offer. I don't need to be hit in the head with it. As for coupons and BOGOs - while cool, that honestly too much of a pain in the tail _for me_. Again - all I'm talking about is MY personal buying habits.


I'm certainly not saying your shopping habits aren't valid. But it's not about customers being "smart enough." How many people drop $6 on a bottle of Listerine, when the store brand sitting on the shelf is half the price and has THE IDENTICAL FORMULA? Purchasing is only partially a logical decision. It's mostly an emotional one. We buy things because they fill a specific need or want, and being smart is not always factor in purchasing. We make emotional decisions that often have nothing to do with how smart we are.

So what I'm saying from a business strategy perspective is that you are what is considered a residual customer. If you happen to see my book in my signature, you may or may not buy. I don't count on you as a sale. It's lovely if you do buy, but I can't take you into account when designing a marketing plan.

90% of your business comes from 10% of your customers, either through direct purchases or referrals (influencers, in marketing parlance ). A marketing plan, therefore, needs to be geared toward motivating that 10%. A business can't depend on the casual forum poster to click on a signature link and maybe buy a book. Those sales are gravy, but not the meat of your volume.

Also, let me clarify I differentiate between a "loss leader" (i.e. the author who sells the first book for 99 cents but has five others on the market for $3.99) and the typical indie that thinks they HAVE to sell their book for 99 cents. I think again folks don't differentiate between the two. There is a world of difference between having a ready-to buy backlist of titles while using one as a loss leader versus selling your only book for 99 cents with the hope that a year from now when you release your next book people will remember you. This second tendency of indie authors is what I am talking about.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I admit, I'm not knowledgeable about branding.  But I can do basic math.  And if I'm making $500 a month on a 99 cent novel, that I *was* making $200 a month on previously at $2.99, I'm gonna pick the $500 a month.

More people are reading my book each month, (a LOT more) and I'm earning more money.  Sorry if I'm destroying my brand or making people think they can get cheap books... but I'm sticking with the 99 cent price as long as it's working for me.

Vicki


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## Maker (Jun 22, 2010)

Interesting discussion. I'm going to drop my price temporarily and see what happens over the next week.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm just replying because I want this thread to come up in my searches. 

But you all know I'm on the anti 99-center side of the aisle, just from a quality standpoint -- being able to pay for pro editing and cover design.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I admit, I'm not knowledgeable about branding. But I can do basic math. And if I'm making $500 a month on a 99 cent novel, that I *was* making $200 a month on previously at $2.99, I'm gonna pick the $500 a month.
> 
> More people are reading my book each month, (a LOT more) and I'm earning more money. Sorry if I'm destroying my brand or making people think they can get cheap books... but I'm sticking with the 99 cent price as long as it's working for me.
> 
> Vicki


My experience is the same as yours.


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## Daniel W. Koch (Aug 14, 2010)

Julie, I totally get what your saying.  I've been having this argument with my Dad since I published on Kindle. He's a very successful salesman and doesn't agree with lowering the price to almost free.  He thinks it makes the "work" look cheap.
I've been reading every forum on this subject trying to understand if there's a different set of rules for publishing.  
When my book was at .99, I had a slight jump in sales, the it leveled off.  When I raised it to 2.99, another jump, then level.
I personally feel better about my book and the work I put into it at the higher price and I think i will keep it there for now. Trying to decide if on my Kindle Board Day I should lower (been studying everyone else!).
Thank you for that perspective....I'm trying to build brand, as I plan to be in this game for a long time. 
Danny


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Sorry if I'm destroying my brand or making people think they can get cheap books... but I'm sticking with the 99 cent price as long as it's working for me.
> 
> Vicki


Not sure why you're sorry. I just refuse to believe that the only reason you are selling volume is a 99 cent price. You've got a gorgeous cover and a professional presentation in a genre that is known to support indie authors and generate reader loyalty, and I suspect you had already started building a fan base _before_ your price drop. If you were making $200 a month at $2.99 before the price drop, then you ALREADY had a growing brand and your volume should have increased organically anyway.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

RonnellDPorter said:


> My October Fright sale, wherein all of my books are 0.99 cents, has had a very slight increase of books sold, but overall not a very huge difference (aside from taking a huge cut in royalties). 67 from October 1st to date. I think I've proven to myself once and for all, as I had a couple of times before, that price really doesn't matter. If someone wants to read your story they'll buy it. If not, they'll pass it up, even on a discount.
> 
> Anyone else had a similar experience?


I said that five m onths and 20 threads ago. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

I don't have an independently published book yet, but I already know that I plan on charging at least $2.99 once I do. I've seen enough variation and different experiences reported on here with regard to $0.99 vs. $2.99+ to feel confident that there is no one right answer. I also feel incredibly strongly that the time, effort, and resources required to produce a professional-quality novel (which is my goal) justifies a sale price of more than one dollar. 

I agree with what Julie says about branding. And I personally feel as though pricing your work at just under a dollar sends a few different messages, none of which I particularly want to send. 

"Hey! This is a self-published book."

"Despite the fact that most professionally-produced ebooks out there cost $5.99 to $14.99, I feel as though my book is only worth $0.99."

"I lack confidence that I can attract readers who are willing to spend more than $0.99 on my work."

I'm not trying to be provocative here...this is just how I interpret the concept of a $0.99 price point. I don't want the most compelling thing about my work to be the bargain price. I want to package my book(s) and myself--my brand--as being worth spending at least $2.99 to read.

Might I lose out on a greater number of sales in the short-term? Quite possibly. But I agree that many people who purchase $0.99 books are doing so on impulse, and any given $0.99 book in their collection will likely be lost in the shuffle. Heck, it may not even get read at all. So yeah, that impulse sale was great, but will it necessarily lead to future sales? Not in my opinion.

I think my biggest resistance to the idea of pricing at $0.99 is that it's a myth that readers won't pay more for a book. Even for a "new" author. Do any traditional publishers out there price their books so low (in general)? And yet they still manage to sell books--even those of first-time authors. 

I'm not going to argue anyone on the fact that one may sell more books at $0.99 than $2.99. But as Julie pointed out, are those people who would only buy your book for $0.99 really the kind of customers you should chase? Are they really reading your work, or just buying cheap books on impulse any time something sounds interesting? So many people here have reported that at $0.99 they buy without thought--perhaps even without sampling. What do those people's TBR piles look like? And yet I imagine that many of those people would spend up to $9.99 to read a book from an author they love. And that book would go to the top of their TBR.

You've got to become the author they love--not the one who tickles their trigger finger but who may never get read. If I spend $0.99 on a book then never get around to reading it, it's not a big loss. Hey, it was only a dollar.

This is a complicated topic and I understand why so many people price at $0.99. I'm happy to hear that it's working for some of those people. Honestly, my opinions are probably largely influenced by my time being traditionally published. I just...I don't know. Writing a good book is a lot of work. $2.99 isn't exactly a lot of money. I was a first-time author once before, selling books priced at over $9.99, from a publisher that honestly did no marketing (my current publisher is MUCH better), and yet I sold books. I built a fan base. I succeeded once and found readers interested in trying my work, who became repeat customers, and I'm confident I can do so again. Even if my books cost more than a dollar.

Just my perspective...


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

flanneryohello said:


> I think my biggest resistance to the idea of pricing at $0.99 is that it's a myth that readers won't pay more for a book. Even for a "new" author. Do any traditional publishers out there price their books so low (in general)? And yet they still manage to sell books--even those of first-time authors.
> 
> What do those people's TBR piles look like? [the .99 cents buyers]


Good points, everyone. A couple of things to address:

Firstly - I've noticed my buying habits changing a LOT. I haven't tried a new non-indie author in over a year. The ones I do try are recommended by friends. I've had my Kindle for about 3 months now and it will probably kill me trying new authors that aren't indies. Why? Because I'm finding good quality books for less money, the instant gratification of the Kindle, both are combining in a way that the likelihood that I'll stop at the book rack in the grocery store or go to the book store is slim to none.

TBR piles - mine goes in this order:
1) Books I'm looking forward to (continuations of series, etc.)
2) Books I've recently purchased (those .99 centers )
3) Re-reads of old favorites
4) Samples, which may get read between recently purchased books or re-reads depending on the budget

Authors I'm sampling are at the BOTTOM of my TBR pile, for the most part. If I bought a book, I'll read it, and it won't take me terribly long, either - a week or two at most. If I sampled it, it may never get read. Also of note: I've been pretty discerning about my .99 cents grabs. I'm not just grabbing something BECAUSE it's .99 cents. I've already determined I want it, I'm just getting it now because it's on sale. The problem with the $2.99s that I'm sampling? I'm constantly adding to my samples. Today it's over 30. Next week it may be over 40. There's just no guarantee if or even when I'll read that sample.

Anywho... I love the price discussions. Seems like they crop up every few weeks, but I stay fascinated


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## destill (Oct 5, 2010)

This is an interesting discussion, and I’m enjoying reading everyone’s comments. I recently dropped the price of one of my humor books to $2.99 to see if it would increase sales. Previously, I’d experimented with $6.95 and $4.95 prices and found that sales were about the same at these two price points. At $2.99, sales increased modestly.

Amazon has discounted one of my titles to $1.99. Now the $1.99 book is outselling the $2.99 title, 9 to 1. 

Branding, in my opinion (and I’m no expert), takes a good deal of time and expense. I’ve spent thousands on my print book promotions—thousands that failed to produce profitable returns.

Because I’m writing humor—and it’s important to make this distinction—my books compete with more than just other humor books. Readers read my books for one reason: to enjoy a good laugh. With a click of a mouse, these same individuals can find thousands, dare I say millions, of free funny stories. Will those stories be as humorous as mine or as well written? Many times, no. In some cases, perhaps yes. 

I’ve priced my books attractively so more people can enjoy my work and will select my books over other humor content. Ultimately, that’s why I wrote these books: to help readers lighten their days and their burdens. If I can keep my books attractively priced, get discovered by more readers as a result, and make a small profit in the process, then I’m OK with that. 

I’m guessing that well-known authors whose Kindle books are selling for $9.99 are receiving about the same royalties per book sale than I’m making from my $2.99 book. (Somebody check me on that. I could be wrong.) As an independently published author, I don’t expect to receive more royalties per sale than would a “Big House” published author. 

When I set my book price at $2.99, I’m saying to readers, “Hey, I know you’ve never heard of me. Would you be willing to risk $2.99 to check out my books INSTEAD of buying XYZ Famous Author’s latest hit? I know we’re in an economic downturn and you’re being more selective about your reading purchases, so I want to make it easy for you to ‘yes’ to buying my book.”


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

It seems like the $0.99 books are readily bought if they sound at all interesting, whereas the $2.99 books are sampled, but may or may not ever get read in the pile of samples. What I want to know, is where do the $2.39 books fit in?


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Anywho... I love the price discussions. Seems like they crop up every few weeks, but I stay fascinated


I think they're popping up every few weeks, because this whole market is a speeding train, and clearly, none of us knows where it's headed.

You'll notice in my sig this week, the bright red $.99 special, this week only. I decided to try it out myself, because everyone's experiences I'd heard about were so different. Have I six-tupled sales? Nope. Maybe doubled or even tripled, but not six-tupled. But even if I had, I'd still be unsure how I feel about the pricing issue. Excellent points have been made on all sides.

I happen to be scanning the job market right now for a new position, and I keep getting struck by the odd analogies with the book pricing thing. Some employers are appalled at how much money I want for the skill set I offer (I can almost hear them thinking, "Good luck with _that_, sister"), while others don't bat an eye. Value is in the eye of the beholder; I think we'll be chasing this question down the tracks for a long time to come.

--Maria


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

MaryMcDonald said:


> It seems like the $0.99 books are readily bought if they sound at all interesting, whereas the $2.99 books are sampled, but may or may not ever get read in the pile of samples. What I want to know, is where do the $2.39 books fit in?


This, in a nutshell  Hrrrm. $2.39... well...lemme look at your brand 



meromana said:


> I think they're popping up every few weeks, because this whole market is a speeding train, and clearly, none of us knows where it's headed.
> 
> You'll notice in my sig this week, the bright red $.99 special, this week only. I decided to try it out myself, because everyone's experiences I'd heard about were so different. Have I six-tupled sales? Nope. Maybe doubled or even tripled, but not six-tupled. But even if I had, I'd still be unsure how I feel about the pricing issue. Excellent points have been made on all sides.
> 
> ...


You're right on all fronts, Maria. And I see what you did thar... I shall have to go look at your .99 cent offering  Now's a good time, too - I just finished up Take the Monkeys and Run 

Oh - I left out a KEY category of my TBR list - free promotionals from major publishers. So, my TBR priority is more like:
TBR piles - mine goes in this order:
1) Books I'm looking forward to (continuations of series, etc.)
2) Books I've recently purchased (those .99 centers Cheesy)
3) Limited time promotional freebies on Amazon
4) Re-reads of old favorites
*) Samples, which may get read between recently purchased books, promos or re-reads depending on the budget / mood


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

I've thought of pricing my indie book at .99. I'm sure I'd get many more sales. In fact, I've gone back and forth in my mind on the subject. But, damn, I spent too many months laboring over it, and I don't want people to buy it just because it's cheap. So I guess I'll trudge along at my slow pace until more people discover it.

Joyce


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Julie is completely right... mostly. ;-)

The thing I've noticed (and this fits right in to known marketing theory) is that those who have had great success at 99 cents have already built a bit of a brand. It may not seem like it, but everyone who has posted here about how they have success are people who have actually been noticed elsewhere. They may not have had big sales, but people knew their covers and their names were being mentioned on the Amazon Communities, etc.

You can't use 99 cents to build a brand. You use it to LEVERAGE a brand.

This is why the 99 cents price doesn't work for everyone. This is why big companies don't give out samples willy nilly. They only do it as a part of a BIG marketing campaign. Otherwise it's wasted.

Nobody ever believes their buying habits fit a marketing - "I don't JUST buy on price!" or "I'm loyal!" - but the reason for that is because people tend not to remember their average habits. They tend to think of the exceptional things they do. They may try a hundred 99 cent books, and only become loyal customers for five of them. It's not that they didn't like any of the other 95 - they may very well have liked some of them BETTER. But because that spontaneous purchase was the only time they ever thought about that product, it just didn't stick in their memory.

Even a negative memory is better for branding than a spontaneous purchase, unfortunately. Unless you are competing ONLY on price, and that is all you ever want to compete on.

Okay, so where I said Julie is right _mostly_, she isn't really wrong... I just thought one of her sentences could use a little more explaining:



> If a person says to me, "I don't know if I would pay $4.99 for your ebook" then that tells me I have not done my job building my brand.


Just because someone doesn't recognize your brand YET, doesn't mean you haven't been doing your job. It just means that building an Indie brand can be a very very very very long haul. And those who succeed early seem to have built other brands - maybe not knowing it - just by being socially active, or having a small reputation among an influential group of "sneezers." (Sneezers are the people who spread the "idea virus" that makes your product go viral.)

IMHO, pushing too hard for sales too early can do damage to your brand, IF you try to harvest the fruits too early. You cut yourself out of the learning curve at the very least. Do what's necessary for you. Do things like this to LEARN (but always realize that the results may be affected by things out of your control).

And if nothing else, do whatever's fun and to heck with all the theory.

Camille


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

My Ouija board says . . . waiting,  waiting . . .  waiting . . .Well, that didn't work. Let's try my tarot deck.  

Edward C. Patterson
All hail to non-issues


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Arkali said:


> So, my TBR priority is more like:
> TBR piles - mine goes in this order:
> 1) Books I'm looking forward to (continuations of series, etc.)
> 2) Books I've recently purchased (those .99 centers Cheesy)
> ...


See, I'm different. First, I don't actually buy _anything_ without sampling (unless I'm already familiar with the author and know I like their work). I will download a free book without sampling, but even then I'm picky. The cover, synopsis, and potentially reviews really have to entice me. If they do, I'll download and treat the entire novel like a sample (I may very well delete it after reading the first couple chapters if it doesn't grab me or if it's poorly written or formatted).

There are so many other things out there competing for my dollar--a song on iTunes, an app for my Droid, something in the iTunes app store. And (from my point of view) there are plenty of badly written books in the Kindle Store. Even if it's only a dollar, I don't want to spend that dollar on crap. Not when I can play Fruit Ninja on my phone instead! 

Within the $0.99 price range especially, in my experience, you're rolling the dice that the book is properly formatted and well-edited (let's be realistic...indie books, on average, are more likely to have those types of issues than books from larger publishers). Please note that I'm not saying there aren't good indie books out there, because there are! I'm just saying that I've come across enough garbage--and have so many other ways to spend my dollars--that I don't personally impulse buy ebooks.

If I download a sample, I generally do so because I have genuine interest in reading the book. And because I sample everything before I buy (I hate loading up my Kindle with stuff I'll never actually read), there's little chance that I'll get a sample then not give it a look (even a quick one).

Assuming that my product description grabs someone's interest enough to compel them to sample, I'm personally confident enough about my writing skill (and my ability to craft tight, compelling openings) that I honestly believe at that point, they will buy my book whether it's $2.99 or $0.99. If you're interested in a story and find the sample to be well-written and enticing, the difference of $2 honestly isn't going to matter to most readers. In my opinion.

People's individual buying and sampling habits obviously vary. If someone only reads $0.99 books, books from authors they already know they like, or free books, and likely will never actually read my sample...well...it seems to me that they're a reader who is primarily looking for dirt-cheap reads. And I suppose that won't include me. I'm counting on the notion that if someone is interested enough in my book to download a sample, they'll eventually get around to reading the sample. If that sample isn't good enough to "sell" my book at $2.99+, then I've got much bigger problems than pricing.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> My Ouija board says . . . waiting, waiting . . . waiting . . .Well, that didn't work. Let's try my tarot deck.


Ed, not sure what that's a comment on (or if it's a comment) but nobody is advocating waiting. There's a world of difference between being patient and being passive. (And, imho, taking short cuts is actually a lot closer to being passive than taking time to do the work.)

But, again, not sure what you were commenting on.

Camille


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

No, I was waiting for the Ouija board. To me discussions on pricing is as useful as an analysis of the sweat glands of tse tse flies.   Swat.

Edward C. Patterson


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Interesting discussion. I've been curious to see whether my book sales would pick up if I sold it at $0.99, but I doubt it. A sample is there for all to read, and it's the work itself that'll make the sales (or not). I've got several free or $0.99 books on my Kindle that I might never read. I don't think that giving away my novels for cheap or free is going to build the kind of readership I'm hoping for. I may not be making hundreds of dollars per month (yet?), but I do get emails from readers asking when my next book will be out. To me, that's priceless.

If selling at $0.99 is getting you what you want, I'm the last person who'd try to convince you to change your price. Judging from my own habits, I don't think it'd get me what I want.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> No, I was waiting for the Ouija board. To me discussions on pricing is as useful as an analysis of the sweat glands of tse tse flies.  Swat.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Okay, that makes sense. (It was the "waiting waiting" that confused me.)

Camille


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

kcmay said:


> I do get emails from readers asking when my next book will be out. To me, that's priceless.


Can't argue with that!


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

flanneryohello said:


> See, I'm different. First, I don't actually buy _anything_ without sampling (unless I'm already familiar with the author and know I like their work). I will download a free book without sampling, but even then I'm picky. The cover, synopsis, and potentially reviews really have to entice me. If they do, I'll download and treat the entire novel like a sample (I may very well delete it after reading the first couple chapters if it doesn't grab me or if it's poorly written or formatted).
> 
> There are so many other things out there competing for my dollar--a song on iTunes, an app for my Droid, something in the iTunes app store. And (from my point of view) there are plenty of badly written books in the Kindle Store. Even if it's only a dollar, I don't want to spend that dollar on crap. Not when I can play Fruit Ninja on my phone instead!
> 
> Within the $0.99 price range especially, in my experience, you're rolling the dice that the book is properly formatted and well-edited (let's be realistic...indie books, on average, are more likely to have those types of issues than books from larger publishers). Please note that I'm not saying there aren't good indie books out there, because there are! I'm just saying that I've come across enough garbage--and have so many other ways to spend my dollars--that I don't personally impulse buy ebooks.


Like I said, I may be the oddball  I haven't had my Kindle all that long, so I'm sure my buying habits will continue to change. It's also possible that I've just been lucky in a non-random way. Most of the indie books that I look at are the ones that I see in authors sigs right here on the KindleBoards. In fact, I'd say all of them - I don't generally read blogs / reviews and this is the only site where I'm exposed to indie authors. Seems like everyone here (or at least the ones I've seen so far) is putting out quality work  I've no doubt there are some dogs out there - I just haven't come across them. And probably the first time I do will mark the point where I start sampling even the .99 cent books.



> If I download a sample, I generally do so because I have genuine interest in reading the book. And because I sample everything before I buy (I hate loading up my Kindle with stuff I'll never actually read), there's little chance that I'll get a sample then not give it a look (even a quick one).


Same. But I'm a VERY voracious reader and I'm also cursed with a short attention span. That sounds weird, but it basically means I read a book about every day or two and the longer a book sits in my sample folder the higher the chance that I'll start another book and forget about reading that sample 



> Assuming that my product description grabs someone's interest enough to compel them to sample, I'm personally confident enough about my writing skill (and my ability to craft tight, compelling openings) that I honestly believe at that point, they will buy my book whether it's $2.99 or $0.99. If you're interested in a story and find the sample to be well-written and enticing, the difference of $2 honestly isn't going to matter to most readers. In my opinion.


I agree with this. My whole point has been that (so far) the .99 books that grab my attention get short-listed past the sampling stage. Once I've read the sample... if I'm hooked, I'll buy it. A recent example is Cate Rowan's Kismet's Kiss. I happily paid $2.99 for that and didn't think twice about it. In fairness, though, had Cate and I not started yakking about her cover there's no telling how long it would have sat in Sample Land. Sowwy, Cate 



> People's individual buying and sampling habits obviously vary. If someone only reads $0.99 books, books from authors they already know they like, or free books, and likely will never actually read my sample...well...it seems to me that they're a reader who is primarily looking for dirt-cheap reads. And I suppose that won't include me. I'm counting on the notion that if someone is interested enough in my book to download a sample, they'll eventually get around to reading the sample. If that sample isn't good enough to "sell" my book at $2.99+, then I've got much bigger problems than pricing.


Point taken  For what it's worth, I'm not just interested in cheap reads - I'm just saying that (with me - can't speak for anyone else) the .99 cent book will get me to TRY a book faster. Again, that may change just as my TBR list grows. Samples and free books weren't an issue before I had my Kindle, so my TBR list was pretty much non-existent. I'd read books that I'd been looking forward to (by a previously enjoyed author), a new try that was found primarily via the samples at the backs of books or I'd re-read old favorites.

I've a feeling that the Kindle won't just change the way books are published but also the way they're marketed.


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## Beth O (Jul 9, 2010)

Imogen Rose said:


> Ronnell, try promoting your price drop with ireaderreview and Paula.


Does ireaderreview do that? I thought it was all about kindles and mentions of free books.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

Beth O said:


> Does ireaderreview do that? I thought it was all about kindles and mentions of free books.


Beth, Switch11 post cheap reads (every Thursday or Friday). If you leave a comment with the link to your book for him (he reads all the comments), he'll most likely put yours up the next time he does a cheap reads post. He does look at number of reviews and star rating.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Part of my decision in pricing my book at $0.99 instead of $2.99 was that I could post about it on more threads (at $0.99, I can post about it on both the "books for under $2.99" thread and "the books for under a $1.00" thread--can't do that when it's priced at $2.99.)

An indie musician friend of mine told me a story about an indie band that made it big (they sound like a cross between Nirvana and the Beach Boys, but I can't remember the name right now, forgive me--I'm terrible with band names).  Anyway, they scored a million dollar record deal by giving their music to illegal pirating websites where people could download it for free.  So they gave their music away to start with, and it worked for them.  It may not work for everyone, but it worked for them.  

My goal right now is to build up readership and "brand" recognition, not make money.  Pricing my book at $0.99 is one of my strategies for luring more readers, and so far it's working better than anything else I've done.  Most people who buy my novel will eventually read it, hopefully enjoy it, and perhaps tell one or two friends.  Maybe that rare reader in a hundred will tell more than a few friends.  I just hope at this point that the people who buy it enjoy it and find it to be a quality product since they forked over their hard-earned money for it.  I wrote it to share it with others and entertain them, and as long as I've accomplished that, I'll be happy.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

I agree with Flannery on price.  After all the work and professionalism I put in my book, it's worth more than 99 cents.  If readers don't agree with that, well then it's time to do something else with my spare time.  99 cents is fine as a loss leadlelr for the first book in a series, I believe.  But I just can't bring myself to give my writing away for nothing (except for little promotional pieces here and there).  Where are all the bakers and chefs hosting huge dinners for free or for firesale prices, who are willing to work so hard and be so creative and get paid nothing for it?  How many clothesline art exhibits have you gone to where the new, unestablished artists give away their canvases for free?  Why are writers expected to be beggars?  

Sorry it I went on too much, but it is a topic that pains me.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

I concur completely with Paul.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Except I'm making more "giving" my book away for 99 cents than I was selling it at a more respectable price of $2.99.

*Shrug*  I'm not saying it would work for everyone.  I'm just saying my time is worth more.  And I'm making more.  So.... there ya go.  

Vicki


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Okay. I'm going to have a 99 cent sale for this weekend only just for fun.

My flash fic story _Alice Ghosting_ is going up on Zombiepalooza tomorrow, and it seems like a good time for a sale.

I'm putting in the price change now.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

callingcrow said:


> Where are all the bakers and chefs hosting huge dinners for free or for firesale prices, who are willing to work so hard and be so creative and get paid nothing for it? How many clothesline art exhibits have you gone to where the new, unestablished artists give away their canvases for free?


Sorry - just a note / observation - the chefs "paid their dues" before they were ever asked to host a huge dinner, trust me. The new, unestablished artists did some networking / impressed SOMEBODY in order to be invited to said exhibit. Nobody starts out making big money no matter what field they're in.

ETA: I'd say as an indie author that "paying your dues" consists of working your tail off marketing, but the actual work you put it into writing the piece doesn't apply as part of the concept. Sorry.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Except I'm making more "giving" my book away for 99 cents than I was selling it at a more respectable price of $2.99.


Here's the thing, though. How do you know that the price itself is the reason you're selling more, or if it was that your book was poised to take off, and your price was simply the trigger?

I'm not recommending that you raise the price to find out, because as long as you're happy with your returns, why mess with it?

I'm just saying that before you lowered your price, I was hearing buzz about your book. Maybe just comments that it sounded interesting or people loved your cover, or that they had it on their TBR list - but I was hearing a lot of it.

So IMHO, your example may be a good one on how 99 cents works... but the lesson for newbies may be the opposite. The most successful example - you - is someone whose book was ripe for it. An unknown is less likely to have success JUST because the price is low.

(I'd also like to point out that giving a book away is a completely different strategy than selling for a bargain price. It's a different audience.)



> I'm just saying my time is worth more.


I know I took this out of context, but I think this sentence by itself it important for us all to keep in mind. Playing with all sorts of strategies is good, but obsessing over them is a waste of time and energy. (Not accusing anyone of that - just a general observation.)

Any time we find ourselves doing a Bullwinkle impression ("This time for SURE!"), any time we think that something (including indie publishing itself) is THE solution, and especially any time we feel we must be doing something wrong and we feel a little desperate to find the solution, we're setting ourselves up, and probably wasting precious time.

This thing is too new, and it's changing too much for us to really know the reason for anything. IMHO, play with it, compare notes on it, but don't read to much into it.

Camille


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Sorry - just a note / observation - the chefs "paid their dues" before they were ever asked to host a huge dinner, trust me. The new, unestablished artists did some networking / impressed SOMEBODY in order to be invited to said exhibit. Nobody starts out making big money no matter what field they're in.
> 
> ETA: I'd say as an indie author that "paying your dues" consists of working your tail off marketing, but the actual work you put it into writing the piece doesn't apply as part of the concept. Sorry.


Not sure I can really agree with this. Besides--have I "paid my dues" as an author if I have four (soon to be five) traditionally published novels, even if I plan on publishing independently under a different pseudonym? Technically I will appear to be a "new" author even though I have years of writing and publishing experience under my belt.

New lawyers don't charge pennies for their services. Nor do newbie software developers, or accountants, or really anything else. Generally goods and services are priced relative to market value, not relative to the experience of the person creating the good or rendering the service. Granted, salaries do tend to go up as one gains more experience within their chosen career, but I don't think that's a good analogy here. We are creating a product. If, even as an independent author, you are creating it with the same skill, professionalism, and attention to detail as a traditionally published author's book (as we should all strive to do), why is there an expectation that we should sell our work for 10% of the average market price? What are we saying, exactly?

Being competitive on price is a good thing, for sure. Undervaluing our work is not.

Books by first-time authors published by traditional houses aren't sold at bargain basement prices. The argument just doesn't hold that this is something one must do if one is a new or unknown author.

Sure, there are plenty of indie books out there that aren't worth more than $0.99 because they aren't of similar quality as their traditionally published counterparts. But if an indie author writes a terrific book, invests in sound editing services, and commissions a professional quality cover, then why in the world does that indie author believe that their work is worth so little relative to the rest of the marketplace?

I just don't get it.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Spoiler



dammit dammit dammit



I so agree with these last two posts, and now I wish I hadn't changed my price. The minute I clicked in the DTP, I felt sick to my stomach.

As soon as I can, I'm going back to 2.99.


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Mm... good thing I've not dropped yet then below $2.99...and I'm thinking of going back to $3.99 anyhow.  I was getting sales at $3.99 but haven't had a single one at $2.99... go figure :shrug:


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Arkali said:


> ETA: I'd say as an indie author that "paying your dues" consists of working your tail off marketing, but the actual work you put it into writing the piece doesn't apply as part of the concept. Sorry.


While I do agree that you have to work your tail off at everything, I think people tend to underestimate the marketing power of their writing. IMHO, people will benefit most from writing more stuff. Writing short fiction, getting it out there on the web and in magazines. Following up one good book with another and another, even if people ignore the first few. All those things that worked for traditionally published writers should not be rejected by indies.

There's a reason why Barnes and Noble opened their super-stores back in the 90's, even though they were openly only interested in selling a few best sellers. It was a marketing move. More titles keep people around longer and make them more likely to buy.

I also think a part of the "dues" is time. Unlike with brick and mortar retailing, age is a highly-valued thing on the internet. Google and other search engines love well-matured pages. Readers very often need to get used to seeing your name and the style and even the look of your fiction - preferably in a situation where they are not enduring a high pressure sales pitch. Which means time. Lots of time.

Camille


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Good post  I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again because these sorts of threads can get personal VERY quickly. So, my caveat - none of my posts are targeted at any one person, just generic statements in the spirit of debate / discussion. That said, I'm going to chop your post up into bits because there are a LOT of good points in it.



flanneryohello said:


> Not sure I can really agree with this. Besides--have I "paid my dues" as an author if I have four (soon to be five) traditionally published novels, even if I plan on publishing independently under a different pseudonym? Technically I will appear to be a "new" author even though I have years of writing and publishing experience under my belt.


Of course you've paid your dues. If you've been through the gauntlet of getting your book published by a House, you've paid your dues. That's what the months or even years of query letters is, working with editors, etc. and so forth. Even the Stephanie Meyers / J.K. Rowlings went through _that_ process, even if their books were one of the "lottery" winners that made millions the first time around.



flanneryohello said:


> New lawyers don't charge pennies for their services. Nor do newbie software developers, or accountants, or really anything else. Generally goods and services are priced relative to market value, not relative to the experience of the person creating the good or rendering the service. Granted, salaries do tend to go up as one gains more experience within their chosen career, but I don't think that's a good analogy here. We are creating a product. If, even as an independent author, you are creating it with the same skill, professionalism, and attention to detail as a traditionally published author's book (as we should all strive to do), why is there an expectation that we should sell our work for 10% of the average market price? What are we saying, exactly?


New lawyers don't charge $400 / hour, either, but I can assure you that an intellectual property lawyer that I went to about 10 years ago charged just that. He was also one of the top two unaffiliated (ie. not on salary / retainer for a company) IP lawyers in the country at the time. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a kid fresh out of law school wouldn't be able to charge that  Same for programmers (and just about any other field) - new programmers may get a job making close to what someone who's been in the industry will get, but you know what? The REAL go-getters are going to spend those 5-10 years of living in a cube networking and making contacts and then they're going to start consulting for about $1,500 a day. Good luck getting that if you just got your degree yesterday.



flanneryohello said:


> Books by first-time authors published by traditional houses aren't sold at bargain basement prices. The argument just doesn't hold that this is something one must do if one is a new or unknown author.


Ah, yes. BUT - the publisher is charging the reader for a finished product which has a fairly standard price. The author, on the other hand, does not get the same amount of money from the publisher. Or are you suggesting that John Q. Author gets the same royalty / advance package that Tom Clancy does? 



flanneryohello said:


> Sure, there are plenty of indie books out there that aren't worth more than $0.99 because they aren't of similar quality as their traditionally published counterparts. But if an indie author writes a terrific book, invests in sound editing services, and commissions a professional quality cover, then why in the world does that indie author believe that their work is worth so little relative to the rest of the marketplace?


Thankfully books, unlike a lot of manufactured goods, share the cost of production across products sold. For instance with an indie writer's work where the IP is provided through sweat equity and cover art / editing is contracted out there's a fixed cost. It doesn't cost you any more to sell one book than it does to sell 100. In fact, the MORE you sell, the more the cost of production goes down, exponentially, in fact.

----------
As a side-note, I have no issue with paying $2.99 for an eBook and happily do, so please don't think I'm campaigning for everyone to drop their prices to a buck 

Something that just occurred to me but is somewhat tangential - you said:


flanneryohello said:


> But if an indie author writes a terrific book, invests in sound editing services, and commissions a professional quality cover, then why in the world does that indie author believe that their work is worth so little relative to the rest of the marketplace?


Would you advocate / advise indie authors to charge $5.99 or $6.99 for their work? That's the publishing house standard for books that are in paperback. Why or why not?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You didn't do yourself any harm. Leave it for a little bit. Call it a Halloween Sale. Just don't fuss too much whether your price is high or low. Once you've done it, give it a shot.

(Okay, pause for a self-promo. This thread, and a few others I've been reading elsewhere, inspired me to start a series on my blog - The Daring Novelist - about getting back to the basics of writing - the point of it all. I'm going to do a series on Heinlein's rules of writing this week. The link is in my sig.)

Camille


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

All I can say is that I'm happy at $3.99, and those who have purchased and read my book tell me that they more than got their money's worth out of it.  In fact my favorite review states, "I can't believe it will continue to be offered at such a low price."

Entertaining someone at a price they consider a bargain.  High praise in my book (pun intended).


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Arkali said:


> As a side-note, I have no issue with paying $2.99 for an eBook and happily do, so please don't think I'm campaigning for everyone to drop their prices to a buck


I can vouch for that! I think you've argued more for the benefits of dropping the price of a first book in a series as a loss leader. I can actually see myself doing that when I have more of my series out -- and without getting sick to my stomach...

Although my original plan was to price my novellas at 2.99 and novels at 3.99 and anything over 120K words at 4.99.

About the 5.99 and 6.99 price point -- traditional publishers do have higher expenses. They've got all those executive bonuses, NY real estate and etc they have to pay for!


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'll be interested in those posts, Camille.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> I also think a part of the "dues" is time. Unlike with brick and mortar retailing, age is a highly-valued thing on the internet. Google and other search engines love well-matured pages. Readers very often need to get used to seeing your name and the style and even the look of your fiction - preferably in a situation where they are not enduring a high pressure sales pitch. Which means time. Lots of time.


Dues is ALWAYS time  Whether it's time spent schmoozing with people, time spent putting up with your crappy co-workers while you go to night school, it's time. Sometimes it's sucking it up and putting up with BS while you put in effort elsewhere, sometimes it's money spent, sometimes it's doing without so you can funnel resources elsewhere. Nobody opens a business / enters the work force and is instantly "The Best". Well, even if you are the public doesn't instantly know about it 

Addressing something up-thread:


> Mm... good thing I've not dropped yet then below $2.99...and I'm thinking of going back to $3.99 anyhow. I was getting sales at $3.99 but haven't had a single one at $2.99... go figure :shrug:


I've no idea what you're doing for marketing, so take this with a grain of salt, BUT - price isn't a "magic bullet". Flipping your price from this to that and back again isn't the answer. I'm pretty sure that even people who are seeing success with a .99 cent model didn't just set that as their price and then figure they were done with marketing  Also, there's not much of anything that's a "magic bullet" for marketing. Well - maybe getting featured as an Oprah's Book Club selection. I'd be willing to bet, though, that SOMEBODY, somewhere, sweated their tail off in getting the book to that position.

Generally speaking, it takes seven exposures before a consumer will take action. Different things will influence that, but it's fairly accurate. Think about how many times you had to see a commercial for a Swiffer broom (or whatever) before you finally decided to try it. I guess what I'm trying to say (and going around the block to do it) is that changing something for a week isn't really a good "test" unless you're marketing the dog snot out of said change. That's pretty much what started this thread. Ronnell was disappointed that his .99 cent sale hadn't generated an upswing of sales. Meanwhile I, Joe Average Reader, had no clue whatsoever that he'd started this sale. Sales are great for generating traffic but not if nobody knows about them.

Anyway - I'm starting to babble. Sowwy!


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> I can vouch for that! I think you've argued more for the benefits of dropping the price of a first book in a series as a loss leader. I can actually see myself doing that when I have more of my series out -- and without getting sick to my stomach...
> 
> Although my original plan was to price my novellas at 2.99 and novels at 3.99 and anything over 120K words at 4.99.
> 
> About the 5.99 and 6.99 price point -- traditional publishers do have higher expenses. They've got all those executive bonuses, NY real estate and etc they have to pay for!


  Plus hundreds of employees 

Sadly, I'm starting school back in December, hopefully. Well - that's not sad. What sad is that hubby and I were talking about it and basically my fun-money / blow-go money, as I call it, is going to be pretty much nuked until I get out of school (about two years). On the bright side, as I told hubby, it'll make it easy to shop for me for birthday / Christmas - just get me an Amazon gift card and I'll be thrilled  Poor me...


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

> Addressing something up-thread:I've no idea what you're doing for marketing, so take this with a grain of salt, BUT - price isn't a "magic bullet".


Which is precisely why I've put it back to $3.99 now. It's a 120k word book so it's "worth" the price mark, time to leave it there and just work on the extra exposures.

In my other industry (R/C electronics) I found that despite the high prices I charge in comparison to what China could make it for ($30 vs $10) once the first few sales were made and the "newbie" test was passed in terms of quality and perceived-value, the price barrier factor faded away.

Paul.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Sadly, I'm starting school back in December, hopefully. Well - that's not sad. What sad is that hubby and I were talking about it and basically my fun-money / blow-go money, as I call it, is going to be pretty much nuked until I get out of school (about two years). On the bright side, as I told hubby, it'll make it easy to shop for me for birthday / Christmas - just get me an Amazon gift card and I'll be thrilled  Poor me...


talk about paying your dues! But two years will go by fast, and then you'll have a new skill set. And there are always contests! (And I know I'd be delighted to send you an ARC of Spiderwork when it comes out)


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

MrPLD said:


> Which is precisely why I've put it back to $3.99 now. It's a 120k word book so it's "worth" the price mark, time to leave it there and just work on the extra exposures.
> 
> In my other industry (R/C electronics) I found that despite the high prices I charge in comparison to what China could make it for ($30 vs $10) once the first few sales were made and the "newbie" test was passed in terms of quality and perceived-value, the price barrier factor faded away.
> 
> Paul.


:nods: $3.99 *might* be an issue, only because it seems like $2.99 is kind of becoming the industry standard for indie publishing, but heck, I don't know  I'm pretty new to my Kindle so my buying habits are going to change, I'm sure. Well - in light of what I posted up-thread, they're _really_ going to change in about a month.

Wait - what am I doing?!?!? All the good authors need to keep price their books at .99 cents, or even FREE. That's the ONLY way your book will sell...
:looks around to see if it's working:
Drat! 



> talk about paying your dues! But two years will go by fast, and then you'll have a new skill set. And there are always contests! (And I know I'd be delighted to send you an ARC of Spiderwork when it comes out)


Ooooh. I may take you up on that. I actually was thinking about that tonight - well, not with your specific book, but basically offering to do reviews in exchange for a book, or if it's an advance copy I'd be happy to proof / offer reader feedback as well. Heck, I like to do that anyway - just look at this thread!


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Dues is ALWAYS time  Whether it's time spent schmoozing with people, time spent putting up with your crappy co-workers while you go to night school, it's time. Sometimes it's sucking it up and putting up with BS while you put in effort elsewhere, sometimes it's money spent, sometimes it's doing without so you can funnel resources elsewhere. Nobody opens a business / enters the work force and is instantly "The Best". Well, even if you are the public doesn't instantly know about it


Actually I consider that effort. What I meant by "time" was exactly that - time passing. Yes ,you do have to put in effort too (as I said in the first paragraph of my post) but it's like the old saying about how nine women can't make a baby in one month. Sometimes working harder and faster and all that doesn't help. Sometimes it even hurts.

Sometimes ... you just have to leave things alone to ripen.

I think it's really hard to do that in this "instant feedback" world we have in the internet. But the internet is the one place where "set it and forget it" really is a powerful strategy.

Camille


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Camille, you've posted a lot of thoughtful and useful comments tonight on this thread -- at least they were useful to me! Thank you.

Arkali, have you seen the revamped The Romance Reviews site? That link is the "become a reviewer" page. It might be great for you -- and free books! You know the genre. I'll bet you'd be wonderful.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Camille, you've posted a lot of thoughtful and useful comments tonight on this thread -- at least they were useful to me! Thank you.


Thank you! (But you know I'm just doing it to avoid writing....)

Camille


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Actually I consider that effort. What I meant by "time" was exactly that - time passing. Yes ,you do have to put in effort too (as I said in the first paragraph of my post) but it's like the old saying about how nine women can't make a baby in one month. Sometimes working harder and faster and all that doesn't help. Sometimes it even hurts.
> 
> Sometimes ... you just have to leave things alone to ripen.
> 
> ...


Good points. I guess it always (for me) goes back to the "Nobody owes you a living" saying. That was pounded into my head growing up and there are SO many kids these days that have ZERO concept of paying their dues, doing what it takes to get the job done, etc. I have heard so many kids (still in high school, mind you) scoff at the idea of working at Best Buy for minimum wage because they feel like they have skills. And honestly, a lot of times they do, but skill isn't all it takes.

Somewhat related - when my daddy applied for medical school waaaay back when and had sent in his application, transcripts, etc. he never heard back from LSU. So right before the deadline he called them to double-check everything and found out that his official transcript had never arrived. This was back in the '40s, mind you. Anyway, Daddy asked _his_ daddy what to do and the upshot of it was he went to Centenary's registrar, got a copy of his official transcript, got on a train for New Orleans and hand-delivered that transcript. A lot of people would just whine about how it wasn't their fault, blah blah blah. Which goes back to the other thing drilled into my skull - "The world doesn't want somebody to try, the world wants somebody to do the job."

Totally off-topic, sorry  I'm actually pretty pumped - hubby's taking me to Shreveport tomorrow for dinner and Daddy's going to be joining us. He'll be 89 in December. Still practices medicine, still works out at the gym. He's a character 

PS: I'll check that out, LK - thanks!


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Arkali,

Quite right about the whole thing of many people thinking that the world "owes" them. Drives me up the wall listening to the wailing. Okay, I know I wail at times around here but hopefully it comes across as "I'm trying to do something but it's not quite working as I planned - anyone got some helpful advice I can use to _facilitate my own advancement_"... as opposed to... "Waaaail, someone give me money for nothing...... [and chicks for free!]"


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LOL

Oh - I can help you with that, Mr.  Your problem is OBVIOUS.  Your beard isn't long enough 

Oh, crud.  For some reason I was thinking that was a ZZ Top song.  Never mind my joke, then - it's limping.  

To address the serious part of your post - I've seen a lot of your threads and no, you've never come across as a whiner   I have to say I've been super impressed with the go-get-'em attitude of most everyone here


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Arkali said:


> New lawyers don't charge $400 / hour, either, but I can assure you that an intellectual property lawyer that I went to about 10 years ago charged just that. He was also one of the top two unaffiliated (ie. not on salary / retainer for a company) IP lawyers in the country at the time. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a kid fresh out of law school wouldn't be able to charge that  Same for programmers (and just about any other field) - new programmers may get a job making close to what someone who's been in the industry will get, but you know what? The REAL go-getters are going to spend those 5-10 years of living in a cube networking and making contacts and then they're going to start consulting for about $1,500 a day. Good luck getting that if you just got your degree yesterday.


But see, like I said, I don't think the career/salary thing is a very good analogy. Let's say that I am a programmer who is hired straight out of college to work for a company. I have co-workers who make more money than me, and have more experience. Let's say we are each assigned to individually create different software applications. Despite my lack of experience, I am a talented programmer who can write code that rivals my more experienced co-workers. Now let's say the company I work for is going to sell the applications we created. Are they going to charge less for my app because I'm a newbie? If my app is indistinguishable in quality from the apps of my co-workers, why in the world would they do that? Now let's say I'm a self-employed programmer doing contract work. I write a brilliant app that is just as good as any other app out there. Someone who purchased my app wouldn't be able to tell how much experience I had--they'd just know that the software is awesome. Why would you undervalue your work in that instance? Will customers not buy your killer app unless its price reflects your years of experience?

Writing and publishing is about talent. Not years of experience. Sometimes those things are correlated. Sometimes not.



> Ah, yes. BUT - the publisher is charging the reader for a finished product which has a fairly standard price. The author, on the other hand, does not get the same amount of money from the publisher. Or are you suggesting that John Q. Author gets the same royalty / advance package that Tom Clancy does?


Once again this is a "salary" discussion. In this case the publisher is giving the tested author who earns them more money (by selling more books) the more attractive contract. Compensating them relative to the money they earn for the company. My question is--why does this matter at all when we're talking about independent publishing?

The whole point of indie publishing is that the author takes on all the responsibility and cost that a traditional publisher would normally invest in a book. In return, they get to cut out the middle man and keep all profits. The only person taking a risk on whether the work will sell is the author himself. He or she is the only one who stands to lose--or benefit--from the failure or success of their book. Price determines how much profit one will make. It may also determine how many units they're likely to sell. Given two products of equal quality from two people of unequal experience, why would price reflect the experience of the creator rather than the quality of the product?



> Thankfully books, unlike a lot of manufactured goods, share the cost of production across products sold. For instance with an indie writer's work where the IP is provided through sweat equity and cover art / editing is contracted out there's a fixed cost. It doesn't cost you any more to sell one book than it does to sell 100. In fact, the MORE you sell, the more the cost of production goes down, exponentially, in fact.


True enough, but why does this mean indie authors should charge less money for their work than traditionally published books?



> Would you advocate / advise indie authors to charge $5.99 or $6.99 for their work? That's the publishing house standard for books that are in paperback. Why or why not?


I think this is a very personal decision and there is no right answer. But if you've written a book that's made of awesome, which has mass appeal, and you've got a solid marketing strategy that will bring attention to your work, then why not charge $5.99? What compels a person walking through a brick and mortar bookstore to pick up a book by an author they don't know and purchase that book (something that happens all the time, arguably)? It's an attention-getting title. An attractive and/or intriguing cover. Compelling back matter. And, perhaps most importantly, the first few pages of text. Indie authors have all the same tools at their disposal to sell their books. If you write a good book with a tight opening and a solid hook, get your name out there, collect good reviews, and generally offer a truly quality reading experience, you will eventually succeed--whether you charge $0.99 or $2.99. Or even $5.99, which is still less than your typical traditionally published ebook.

It was already mentioned but I think it's important to remember that time is far more essential than price when it comes to succeeding as an author. Part of the problem with self-publishing on the DTP is that it's instant gratification. You can publish a book before it's ready, especially when it's so easy to make updates here and there as you tweak it. This culture of instant gratification has authors thinking that they should hit the ground running and if they don't, perhaps it's because they're charging too much for their work. No, it's probably because your work hasn't had time to get its legs. To succeed, you need to get read. To get read, you need to market, and you need to have a sample that will entice people to buy. You need reviews. Perhaps most importantly, you need a body of work. Most authors do not find tremendous success on the back of a single book. Every book you write gets your name out there more, establishes you as an "experienced" author, and increases your chances of hooking new readers. And it goes without saying that the more titles you have to sell, the more money there is to be made.

I think it also needs to be said that there are a great many indie authors who write books that do not easily fit into genres, which were rejected by publishers as not being marketable, and which are generally going to be a tougher sell to a broad audience. This doesn't mean they are writing bad books--but it does mean that perhaps traditional publishers know a little something about what sells and what doesn't. If your book is truly difficult to market because it isn't the type of story to have mass appeal, no matter how well written it is, then you should anticipate that you, as an indie author, will have just as tough a time, if not tougher, selling that book as a traditional publisher would have. In this case, price isn't likely to matter much either. If you have a story most people aren't interested in reading, offering it for $0.99 probably won't change their minds. If someone genuinely wants to read your story, $2.99 probably won't hinder them.

Seriously...people focus way too much on price. Book buying isn't really a coldly logical decision. It's more emotional. If I want to read a book, if it piques my interest and seems to promise me an experience I want to have, I am not going to balk at paying $3 for that experience instead of $1. Seriously. If I don't want to read a book, it really doesn't matter what price it is. Price may factor heavily for some book buyers, but I honestly believe that if you've got a product people want, it doesn't matter as much as you think. What a reader is really deciding when they consider purchasing a book is whether they want to invest their time...not so much their money.


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## SpearsII (Jan 16, 2010)

Its kinda funny how this is a chicken or the egg question. What came first the price or the sale? Everyone has been going back and forth on the price $.99, $2.99, $14.99. Ask three different people and you will get four different answers. My thoughts are the longer my wife's book is out the less I know what's driving sales. We started out $.99 moved to $1.99 then $2.99. With the price jump to $2.99 we are getting more sales than we where at $1.99 and so far this month we are on track to sell more then when we first started at $.99. Honestly I have no idea what is driving up our sales. I would love to make up a great theory connected to our pricing but I am not sure it is that simple. I think we indies are quick to jump on the price as the cause because it is the one thing we have the most control of. I am currently in the camp of $2.99 or higher as a good floor for prices, but I was in the $.99 to reach reader camp not to long ago. The one camp I have always been in is that at the end of the day the writing is the greatest producer of sales. The writing will win the day.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Even with programming, though, you aren't just paying for the software. You're also paying for quality testing and tech support. And of course a company isn't going to to charge less for newbie's code. When I buy Photoshop, for instance, I'm not buying code that Steve wrote, I'm buying software from Adobe. In the case of B2B (Business-to-Business), I'm not working with Steve the programmer, I'm working with Business Solutions, Inc. or whoever. Also, with a big shop pricing is figured based on overhead, just as it is in publishing. Pricing to support a business is different than pricing to support an individual with different considerations.

Most of your caveats are "if the book is the same quality as one published by _______, why not price it the same? In the case of indie publishing, I'll be blunt - only a fraction of the books I've read have been fully proofed. That's not to say the stories aren't good or that they were painful to read due to poor grammar - I wouldn't read the book in either case and would be getting a refund. Yes, I'll admit that you see typos and errors even in books published by traditional publishers (and that makes me want to scream) but usually it's less than a handful per book. I'll overlook some things at $2.99 that I wouldn't at $7. A lot of people don't care about grammar or spelling, but as a former English major (and future English major ) I notice, and it bugs me.

Anyway, the above wasn't meant to make anyone feel bad or anything. With that said, it's late, I'm babbling and I'll check back in tomorrow  G'nite, everyone.

PS: 


> Seriously...people focus way too much on price. Book buying isn't really a coldly logical decision. It's more emotional. If I want to read a book, if it piques my interest and seems to promise me an experience I want to have, I am not going to balk at paying $3 for that experience instead of $1. Seriously. If I don't want to read a book, it really doesn't matter what price it is. Price may factor heavily for some book buyers, but I honestly believe that if you've got a product people want, it doesn't matter as much as you think. What a reader is really deciding when they consider purchasing a book is whether they want to invest their time...not so much their money.


100% agree. Good points, all the way around


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Even with programming, though, you aren't just paying for the software. You're also paying for quality testing and tech support. And of course a company isn't going to to charge less for newbie's code.


Yes... :cough: :cough: I try to avoid support as much as possible by limiting my features to things that are completely solid (hah! another fantasy); everything else gets placed under the "non-supported" set of features.

Sadly, I get more support requests on my OpenSource software... which is very frustrating.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

MrPLD said:


> Yes... :cough: :cough: I try to avoid support as much as possible by limiting my features to things that are completely solid (hah! another fantasy); everything else gets placed under the "non-supported" set of features.
> 
> Sadly, I get more support requests on my OpenSource software... which is very frustrating.


Back when I was doing freelance web design I did a LOT of tech support. Sadly, it was mostly on things that Microsoft or whoever produced. Most of my clientele was small or home-based business and for some reason most of those people had JUST started using the computer. It might have been the timing, too (2000'ish) and maybe today I'd get less calls about how to attach a photo to an email - I dunno.


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Even with programming, though, you aren't just paying for the software. You're also paying for quality testing and tech support. And of course a company isn't going to to charge less for newbie's code. When I buy Photoshop, for instance, I'm not buying code that Steve wrote, I'm buying software from Adobe. In the case of B2B (Business-to-Business), I'm not working with Steve the programmer, I'm working with Business Solutions, Inc. or whoever. Also, with a big shop pricing is figured based on overhead, just as it is in publishing. Pricing to support a business is different than pricing to support an individual with different considerations.


True enough. I don't think that indie authors would be wise to price their ebooks at $9.99, like most traditional publishers. As I said before, being competitive on pricing is a good thing, and indie authors have the advantage of not having as much overheard as a traditional publishing company. I would never argue that indie authors should charge _as much_ traditional publishers, just that they shouldn't undervalue their work by charging 10% of what a traditional publisher does. I'll tell you right now, if I were to sell an indie book for $0.99, the royalty I earn on that book will be less than the royalty I currently earn on my traditionally published books. So assuming I can go either way with my work, why in the world would I go indie just so I can earn less money and do more work, at more personal expense?



> Most of your caveats are "if the book is the same quality as one published by _______, why not price it the same? In the case of indie publishing, I'll be blunt - only a fraction of the books I've read have been fully proofed. That's not to say the stories aren't good or that they were painful to read due to poor grammar - I wouldn't read the book in either case and would be getting a refund. Yes, I'll admit that you see typos and errors even in books published by traditional publishers (and that makes me want to scream) but usually it's less than a handful per book. I'll overlook some things at $2.99 that I wouldn't at $7. A lot of people don't care about grammar or spelling, but as a former English major (and future English major ) I notice, and it bugs me. everyone.


I agree with this 100%, and said as much in earlier posts. Many indie books aren't worth more than $0.99. When an indie author insists on designing their own amateurish cover and not having their work professionally edited, they are most likely putting out a product that's inferior to their traditionally published counterparts. In this instance charging $0.99 may not be so far off the mark. I have a low tolerance for grammatical errors, formatting errors, typos, etc. I also have a low tolerance for certain writing conventions/cliches that a good editor would nip in the bud. When I start reading a book, I find it incredibly easy to determine whether it's unedited or not--and if it is, I don't really want to spend a lot of money to read it. Let's be honest, there's plenty of unedited, first-draft level fiction available for free online, so why would I pay for a typical fan fiction-quality story for my Kindle?

My point is that the indie author who does what's necessary to create a book that rivals traditionally published titles should not hesitate to charge more than $0.99 for that book. Not only is there a big misconception within the indie community that price is of paramount importance, but there's also a sense that $0.99 is an appropriate "indie" price. I just don't agree with that. When I publish independently, it will only be after I've written a solid, well-edited book, commissioned a professional-looking cover, and yes, definitely, gone through a similar level of editing as I currently do at my traditional publisher (this means having at least three pairs of eyes looking at my story, at least one of them professional, not only for typos/errors, but also story problems). My goal is that someone who buys my book will not be able to tell that it's "self-published", in that it will look and read every bit as well as a traditionally published book. This isn't exactly impossible. Indie authors are absolutely capable of producing a book that is worth more than $0.99, but it does take time, effort, and possibly money, which many indie authors either aren't willing or able to invest. But there are indie authors who are treating this like a real business, an entrepreneurship. They are doing whatever it takes to create and market a book that is indistinguishable from a traditionally published book. Those indie authors should not be convinced that because they are indie, their work is worth less. It's not.

A lot of this comes down to confidence in one's work. I'm confident that I can write a book that people will happily pay $2.99 - $4.99 (for example) to read. If my book isn't selling, I will question my marketing techniques and my story. I will also keep in mind that "overnight" success doesn't really happen on an indie budget.  It will take time. What I won't question is price. If my book isn't good enough to attract readers--and make fans--at $2.99, I doubt it's good enough to really succeed at $0.99 either. It may sell more copies in the short term as it appeals to impulse buyers, but I really don't believe that will necessarily translate into long-term success. And with the Amazon royalty structure, I would need to sell six times the copies to earn the same as I would if it were priced at $2.99. So the chances of finding significantly more success at $0.99 than $2.99 is far from guaranteed.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

I created a Windows application for animal rescuers. When it first came out in 2002, I got a LOT of emails requesting basic Windows help ("How do I install it?" "Just double-click the file you downloaded and follow the instructions.") 

My new customers are definitely more computer-savvy than new customers were 8 years ago.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Except I'm making more "giving" my book away for 99 cents than I was selling it at a more respectable price of $2.99.
> 
> *Shrug* I'm not saying it would work for everyone. I'm just saying my time is worth more. And I'm making more. So.... there ya go.
> 
> Vicki


After mulling this over for awhile, I dropped the price on one of my books to .99. Why? Because I have a few promotional opportunities either ongoing or coming up where the book has some visibility - two giveaways and a blog review - so I'm not averse to running a special to get it out to more readers while the book is still relatively new and hopefully build some word of mouth.

Sure I think my book is worth more, too. But at the moment it's more important to me to reach more readers. Whether I make more or less money this way isn't the point. It's the long term I'm thinking of.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Personally, I'm a fan of the $2.99 price for indies, with a .99 cent intro price if one has a body of work.  That's as a reader.  I think I've kind of gotten a long way away from initial point, which was, succinctly:

A .99 cent intro work will probably get me reading you faster than a free sample will.  Both, however, will eventually get me reading you and potentially create a fan who will happily buy most, if not all, of your back-list at $2.99.  The .99 cent price on the first book in a series / collection will just do it faster, is all.

Hmm.  I just had an epiphany.  Assuming that a book has gotten my attention in the first place, I'm basically happier paying $0.99 for a FULL sample than I am in downloading a free, partial sample. And of course I'm going to read a sample I paid for before I will a free sample - especially when the free sample requires that if I want the full "product" I have to go through an additional step to acquire it. 

Really hope that clarified my point more - I feel like a light-bulb went off


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## Cate Rowan (Jun 11, 2010)

Arkali said:


> My whole point has been that (so far) the .99 books that grab my attention get short-listed past the sampling stage. Once I've read the sample... if I'm hooked, I'll buy it. A recent example is Cate Rowan's Kismet's Kiss. I happily paid $2.99 for that and didn't think twice about it. In fairness, though, had Cate and I not started yakking about her cover there's no telling how long it would have sat in Sample Land. Sowwy, Cate


Heh, no need to apologize for what might have been. I'm just thrilled you read it and loved it. 

FWIW, here's my take on pricing. (Lordy, this has turned into a tome--apologies!)

As authors, we have no idea what works because we can't do truly controlled experiments. There are so many factors in sales--not just price, but word of mouth, whether a sample was downloaded and read first (and if so, how long ago was it downloaded, and what prompted the reader to sample it? Usually we can't tell...), and author promo (and just as with samples, promo can have delayed effects).

Hypothetically, if sales were such that I could choose to get x sales at $2.99 or 6x at $.99 (both guaranteed), I'd go for the $.99, just to have more eyes on the book--and more mouths spreading the word, and more potential buyers through "people who bought this bought that," etc. Also, I think $.99 is a very smart strategy as a loss leader to bring readers toward the author's $2.99+ books.

At the moment, I only have one book out, which means the loss leader strategy isn't as useful for me. I've priced my book at $2.99 at Amazon (and $3.99 @Smashwords, B&N, etc. in case of discounting). Once I have more than one book out, I'll probably try a $.99 loss leader. Since the results from $2.99 vs. $.99 seems to be inconsistent across authors/books, and since I'd have to sell 6x as many copies at $.99 to break even, for now, I'm going to take my chances at $2.99. Although if the royalty difference were only 3x, I'd probably drop my price.

BTW, my pricing has nothing to do with what I feel about the book's worth. I can't price based only on that, since doing so would ignore the fact that lower prices lead to more sales. I'd be just as happy (or more) selling 10,000 copies at $1 than I would 100 copies at $100 each. The only issue for me is whether the increased sales make up for the lower royalties that Amazon gives, and that seems to vary.

IMO, the time and effort I've invested in my book (and bthere's a ****load in that book!) are irrelevant once it's up for sale. That's because each buyer doesn't care about _my_ investment in creating the book or what I think it's worth, they only care about _their_ investment and whether it's worth it to them. For a buyer, it's always about WIIFM--"what's in it for me."

On the Kindle, I think that whatever the price, a good book that begins with a hook-y sample is what'll make a reader happy and bring the sale. If an author has a quality product AND can get readers to sample it, there's to be a good chance they'll buy it, even at $2.99 instead of $.99. Yes, sometimes a $.99 price helps in getting a reader to sample/buy! So for other authors here, the price decision (and the income math) is different than mine. I'm all about whatever works for each of us. 

Speaking of sampling and buying, from a consumer standpoint (mine only): I won't buy a book--even at $.99--without sampling it first. Kindle samples act as my digital TBR pile, and I usually don't lay down money until I'm ready to read. I have almost 600 unread books and samples on my Kindle already, and probably that many in my print TBR pile. As an individual consumer, price is important, but less relevant to me than how much I want the book. If I read the sample and I love it, I'll buy it, unless it's stupidly priced (as in, more than $9.99).

I've downloaded dozens of freebie full books without sampling, but mainly because they were free. Most weren't ones I was desperate to read anyway, so who knows if I'll ever get around to them. They're very low on my priority list, and that means I may or may not ever follow up by buying the author's other books.

I've only bought one book without sampling it first, and that exception was $.99...but that was two months ago, and hmm, I still haven't read it. I suspect $.99 wasn't enough of an investment to raise it in priority for me.

So blah blah blah, I guess what I'm saying is that samples are the key _for me._ They're free and I use them! Since my reading time is so limited, each book purchase decision is less about price and more about how much I like the sample.

Which probably didn't help at all.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Personally, I'm a fan of the $2.99 price for indies, with a .99 cent intro price if one has a body of work. That's as a reader. I think I've kind of gotten a long way away from initial point, which was, succinctly:
> 
> A .99 cent intro work will probably get me reading you faster than a free sample will. Both, however, will eventually get me reading you and potentially create a fan who will happily buy most, if not all, of your back-list at $2.99. The .99 cent price on the first book in a series / collection will just do it faster, is all.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's a good summary of, I think, how a lot of people feel. It certainly fits in with my feeling that 99 cents is best as a special promotion - whether the permanent price on an "entry" book, or a temporary price on any book.

I'll also go so far as to speak for some people I think you may have spoken for a bit in the process -- There IS an audience who can't afford to buy as many books as they read. (I am one of them.) These people depend largely on libraries and used books, but inexpensive ebooks bring that used-book money back into the new book fold. The bargain hunters will never be a good audience for higher priced books. They'll buy their most favorite for a higher price, but they'll wait for a bargain on the rest.

It's not just that they're cheap. It's that they have a limited budget. But chasing the bargain hunter could hurt your income in the end... except that bargain hunters are always on the look out for sales, and so if you have temporary sales, or use coupons, you can serve them too.

I suspect that, as long as there ARE bargains in ebooks (and 2.99 constitutes a bargain too) we will lure more and more of these readers to ebooks. And that will not cannibalize sales of paper, it will actually GROW the market.

Camille


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> I so agree with these last two posts, and now I wish I hadn't changed my price. The minute I clicked in the DTP, I felt sick to my stomach.


Your comment caught my eye, because I felt the same way about changing my price to $.99 for this current week. Yes, I've sold a lot more books, and as it turned out, now that the week's almost over, I probably did hit 6X, maybe more if you count Smashwords & B&N, too. But I still feel a little queasy about it. I sold a bunch of books, but at 35 cents apiece, it doesn't amount to much. Thirty-five cents is the kind of money any of us might see in the street and not bother to pick up, because it's too much trouble to bend over. Two or three dollars, though, would be worth bending over for. (Um, perhaps I should rephrase that...)

Anyway, you might feel better about the $.99 price if you call it a marketing experiment. Which brings me to my next point...



Cate Rowan said:


> As authors, we have no idea what works because we can't do truly controlled experiments. There are so many factors in sales--not just price, but word of mouth, whether a sample was downloaded and read first (and if so, how long ago was it downloaded, and what prompted the reader to sample it? Usually we can't tell...), and author promo (and just as with samples, promo can have delayed effects).


Yes, exactly. There are so many variables in total, and so many over which we have no control, not the least of which is what Amazon might be doing with their site, with their promos, in their algorithms, etc. Like it or not, Amazon, with all their power, has far more control over our sales than we do. On top of that, we don't even know what they're doing most of the time. This month's freebie-fest is a case in point. Only because we compared notes and realized that we were suffering a "group slump", were we able to figure out that Amazon was the likely cause, not anything any of us did.

My point here is just to reiterate what you all have said: price is far from the primary factor in our sales.

--Maria


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

Monique said:


> Fwiw, as a reader, I feel much the same as Arkali.
> 
> For $.99, I'll take a chance based on reviews and the description.
> For $2.99, I'll typically sample first.
> For $3.99+, I must have previously read and enjoyed one of the author's other books.


I'm the same way, although I'll always read a sample before buying, even at $0.99. There's something about that $3.99 price that just stops me in my tracks. I think one of the things is that I know at $2.99 the author who is self-publishing is making more per sale than if he or she was going through a traditional publisher with a $7.99 paperback. And another factor is that right now Borders sends me two coupons a week for at least 33% off, so those $7.99 paperbacks are really $5 something and tax. Virtual books selling for $4 don't seem like a big bargain. But if you sell at $2.99, that's significant savings and cheaper even than I can get a book used.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Mark Asher said:


> I think one of the things is that I know at $2.99 the author who is self-publishing is making more per sale than if he or she was going through a traditional publisher with a $7.99 paperback.


Wait! Not true. The author is grossing more. But out of the $2 per sale the author is (or should be) paying for: editing, covers, advertising & promotion...


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Wait! Not true. The author is grossing more. But out of the $2 per sale the author is (or should be) paying for: editing, covers, advertising & promotion...


Yes, the author is doing the part of the publisher as well. From what I've seen, most writers are spending at least twice the time doing the publisher's job as the writer's job. It's never ending.

How much the writer is making percentage-wise is not at all a fair consideration. Most writers are making pennies per hour, and working their a** off for it. It's plenty fair to decide what a book is worth to you based on your own budget and needs, but the only thing you can judge the author on is the work itself. You have no idea their situation. You have no idea how much money they are actually making or how much they "deserve" it or not.

Plus as a reader, I don't quite understand the idea that some books should be required to be a "bargain" and others not. The real investment, to me, is in time. Yes, I consider whether I can afford it, but that's the price of ANY book, not just some books. If I can afford it, then my consideration is whether the book is worth my time. (And, I'm sorry to say, but a cheaper price is not going to make a difference in that consideration. My time is worth a lot, and I know I can fill it with great books.)

If you're reluctant to pay above 2.99, that's one thing - so am I. I won't pay above $5 for even my favorite authors, because I can't afford it. My consideration, though, is not the worthiness of the author. It's the worthiness of the book.

Camille


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Yes, the author is doing the part of the publisher as well. From what I've seen, most writers are spending at least twice the time doing the publisher's job as the writer's job. It's never ending.


Yes, yes, and yes!



daringnovelist said:


> The real investment, to me, is in time. Yes, I consider whether I can afford it, but that's the price of ANY book, not just some books. If I can afford it, then my consideration is whether the book is worth my time. (And, I'm sorry to say, but a cheaper price is not going to make a difference in that consideration. My time is worth a lot, and I know I can fill it with great books.)
> Camille


I always wonder why people don't bring this up more. It's the reason I don't download a lot of free books. Just because they don't cost me cash, doesn't me they're a good use of my time. And just because a book costs $9.99 or $12.99 doesn't mean it will be worth my time, either. I've said it before: life is too short to read bad books.

--Maria


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

meromana said:


> Two or three dollars, though, would be worth bending over for. (Um, perhaps I should rephrase that...)


Go on ... go on ...


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

meromana said:


> life is too short to read bad books.


Quite right. I also find myself less swayed by the price but rather more influenced by the quality of the content. It's a bit like choosing a $2 collated remake DVD from the rejects shop vs $20 DVD hit that you know is good.

I've thrown out several books that did little more than to waste my time - my fault for not checking the content more closely when I was in the book shop (from the days before you could get previews online).

Paul.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

MosesSiregarIII said:


> Go on ... go on ...


I almost did rephrase the line after I re-read it, but I figured some poor soul on this board would share my twisted sense of humor...

 Maria


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

meromana said:


> Yes, yes, and yes!
> 
> I always wonder why people don't bring this up more. It's the reason I don't download a lot of free books. Just because they don't cost me cash, doesn't me they're a good use of my time. And just because a book costs $9.99 or $12.99 doesn't mean it will be worth my time, either. I've said it before: life is too short to read bad books.
> 
> --Maria


I do download free books, because those are the same as a sample. I prefer to read samples when I'm in reading mode, not shopping mode - and I always want the longest sample I can get, because I don't like being interrupted while reading. I'll make up my mind at the first natural break for me. (Which for a bad book may be at the first page turning.) Otherwise, I'm kicked out of reading mode and likely to feel cranky about that.

I suspect this isn't uncommon, and it's one of the reasons why it's so hard to tell when our marketing efforts work or not.

Camille


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

meromana said:


> I almost did rephrase the line after I re-read it, but I figured some poor soul on this board would share my twisted sense of humor...
> 
> Maria


God have mercy on that poor soul.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

> The real investment, to me, is in time.


I'm just a reader, not a writer (though I'm a buyer too, for me personally and for my library).

For me, it is a lot about the blurb and the reviews, more than the price. So I have paid 4.99 for an ebook without blinking if the description is intriguing and the reviews are good (and balanced). Heck, in the past I've bought books based solely on the front flap -- not sure what the ebook equivalent would be to that.

Then it comes down to the time. I can tell pretty soon if a new author or a new book is worth my time and that's when it gets down to the actual writing quality.

I know nothing about marketing. How much time and energy is put into providing the perfect book blurb?

_Edited for clarification._


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> I know nothing about marketing. How much time and energy is put into providing the perfect book blurb?


I'd have to say... days, weeks... even more over time if you include refinements. Sometimes it's just so difficult to come up with something good that you'll have authors running out of the room screeching and pulling their hair out, hollering something like "Writing the whole damned book was easier than a blurb!... aieeeeeee"

 (I know because I've witnessed it  )

Paul.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> I'm just a reader, not a writer (though I'm a buyer too, for me personally and for my library).
> 
> For me, it is a lot about the blurb and the reviews, more than the price. So I have paid 4.99 without blinking if the description is intriguing and the reviews are good (and balanced). Heck, I've bought books based solely on the front flap -- not sure what the ebook equivalent would be to that.
> 
> ...


That's how I am, too. I want to find the best books. So I look at things like the book description, the reviews, and the sample. I'd much rather pay $9.99 for a great Kindle book (indie or big six) than $2.99 for three mediocre Kindle books (indie or big six).


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

MosesSiregarIII said:


> That's how I am, too. I want to find the best books. So I look at things like the book description, the reviews, and the sample. I'd much rather pay $9.99 for a great Kindle book (indie or big six) than $2.99 for three mediocre Kindle books (indie or big six).


I agree, but there seem to be plenty of very good $2.99 (and $0.99 and sometimes free books) to read, so the more expensive books aren't going to get my attention as easily.

And there are libraries and where I live, in an urban area, there are several very good used bookstores. There's a lot of options for me to spend very little on an individual title.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

I recently bought The Iron Duke for 9.99.  I had a twinge at the price, but I wanted to read it, and I bought it.  Just a year ago, I would have thought it was a bargain!


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

I have to say, I'm a bit scared of this 'race to the bottom'.  Went through it with several other industries and while it's great for the consumer in the short term it does tend to destroy a lot of the industry infrastructure.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> I recently bought The Iron Duke for 9.99. I had a twinge at the price, but I wanted to read it, and I bought it. Just a year ago, I would have thought it was a bargain!


[OT]Tunis' Iron Duke? I loved that book. My 84 year old father loved that book. My son loved that book. I had no idea it was still in print/Kindle.[/OT]


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

MrPLD said:


> I have to say, I'm a bit scared of this 'race to the bottom'. Went through it with several other industries and while it's great for the consumer in the short term it does tend to destroy a lot of the industry infrastructure.


Agreed!

I see a lot of parallels right now with app development, particularly mobile development. The iTunes app store has created an expectation that a game should cost $0.99 to perhaps $4.99. Games that cost more than that are perceived to be overpriced--which is quite amazing, considering the amount of development that goes into creating the truly good games, not to mention what game prices have been historically. This is not doing great things for the industry on the whole, especially when it becomes far less attractive/profitable to actually spend the time, effort, and money to develop truly innovative, original, big-budget games. Being profitable has become dependent on selling massive numbers of copies, because obviously at $0.99, you're making pennies per sale. As you said, this seems good for consumers in the short term, but the industry is hurting badly. In the long term, this will mean not only less quality games, but also more "clone" type games that attempt to emulate a winning formula (a "sure thing"). The really groundbreaking stuff won't get developed because at such low prices, there's too much risk that they won't recoup their investment--and at a higher price, those games just can't compete with all the other games out there that are being sold for rock-bottom prices (probably at a loss).

I would hate to see ebooks go the same way.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Mark Asher said:


> I agree, but there seem to be plenty of very good $2.99 (and $0.99 and sometimes free books) to read, so the more expensive books aren't going to get my attention as easily.
> 
> And there are libraries and where I live, in an urban area, there are several very good used bookstores. There's a lot of options for me to spend very little on an individual title.


I get most of my reads from the local library, as well. If there's a new title by one of my favorite authors and the library doesn't have it or it's always checked out, I'll wait until the paperback comes out or I can get it used. Yes, I am a bargain hunter and proud of it.

As a (currently) one-income family, I find bargains and freebies wherever I can. Yesterday I did my typical semi-annual clothes shopping spree. Every single clothing article came off the clearance rack. In fact, except for good running shoes which are a necessity to me, I never buy designer clothing unless it's marked way down. Actually, I always walk right past the displays at the front of the store and head for the 50% or more off section.

I waffled on price for a long time for my books, which were selling steadily at $2.99 but not in huge numbers. Instead of thinking like a seller, I chose to look at it from a buyer's point of view. As a consumer, I'm smart enough to look at a product and figure out if it's something I want or need regardless of what the sticker says. But if it's priced within my (tiny, almost non-existent) budget, I'll buy it. If not, well, it will stay on the wish list indefinitely.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

MrPLD said:


> I have to say, I'm a bit scared of this 'race to the bottom'. Went through it with several other industries and while it's great for the consumer in the short term it does tend to destroy a lot of the industry infrastructure.


So true. I call it the Walmartization of American society, where cheap trumps quality almost every time. You might get a quality cheap product initially during Walmartization of an industry, but at some point you drive that quality right out of a market that then becomes flooded with substandard goods. In the end, you get what you pay for and what you saved early on seldom compensates for the reduced quality you are forced to endure later. We as a nation are becoming far too comfortable with the prospect of short-term gain at the expense of long-term benefit.

Books are no different from any other commodity, and it's only a matter of time before the only thing you'll be reading at the 99¢-to-$1.99 range will be authors working in some computer station sweatshop in India, and the quality authors will have long-since given up on trying to sell their goods at a living wage and moved on to some other creative outlet.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> I prefer to read samples when I'm in reading mode, not shopping mode - and I always want the longest sample I can get, because I don't like being interrupted while reading. I'll make up my mind at the first natural break for me. (Which for a bad book may be at the first page turning.) Otherwise, I'm kicked out of reading mode and likely to feel cranky about that.


This is pretty much how I feel, which is why I don't mind paying .99 cents for a full sample. Thankfully, I've yet to stumble upon a really bad book. I'd probably delete it without a second thought or, depending on how hard it is to do a return, get a refund.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> [OT]Tunis' Iron Duke? I loved that book. My 84 year old father loved that book. My son loved that book. I had no idea it was still in print/Kindle.[/OT]


Sorry, no. It's Meljean Brooks's new steampunk romance:


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Sorry, no. It's Meljean Brooks's new steampunk romance:


I want that book pretty badly and it's on my wish list. I took a pass on it at $9.99, though. Hopefully I'll get a gift-card for Amazon for Christmas or the price will drop when the paperback comes out.



flanneryohello said:


> This is not doing great things for the industry on the whole, especially when it becomes far less attractive/profitable to actually spend the time, effort, and money to develop truly innovative, original, big-budget games. Being profitable has become dependent on selling massive numbers of copies, because obviously at $0.99, you're making pennies per sale. As you said, this seems good for consumers in the short term, but the industry is hurting badly. In the long term, this will mean not only less quality games, but also more "clone" type games that attempt to emulate a winning formula (a "sure thing"). The really groundbreaking stuff won't get developed because at such low prices, there's too much risk that they won't recoup their investment--and at a higher price, those games just can't compete with all the other games out there that are being sold for rock-bottom prices (probably at a loss).


This must be the casual games market. PC games are still going for $20 for casual / puzzle games and $50 for A-list games and I don't see that changing any time soon. Take a look at http://www.Steampowered.com and you'll see loads of games that aren't being sold at $5 a copy.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Arkali said:


> I want that book pretty badly and it's on my wish list. I took a pass on it at $9.99, though. Hopefully I'll get a gift-card for Amazon for Christmas or the price will drop when the paperback comes out.


I've just started -- I'm reading like three books right now, plus working on you-know-what. It looks good so far. I'm not happy about the price though. 7.99 seems to be my upper comfort limit with ebooks now.

Strangely enough, I feel the same twinge with the 99 centers. I don't immediately think bargain! I think uh-oh. Will this be crap? and I check out other sources before adding it to my ever-growing tbr pile in the kindle. 2.99 is more of an autobuy with me than .99.

weird.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> I've just started -- I'm reading like three books right now, plus working on you-know-what. It looks good so far. I'm not happy about the price though. 7.99 seems to be my upper comfort limit with ebooks now.
> 
> Strangely enough, I feel the same twinge with the 99 centers. I don't immediately think bargain! I think uh-oh. Will this be crap? and I check out other sources before adding it to my ever-growing tbr pile in the kindle. 2.99 is more of an autobuy with me than .99.
> 
> weird.


Funny  Well, I have to say my .99 auto-buys are ALREADY books I planned on sampling. It's not "Oh, .99 cents, let me buy it!" it's more "Hrrm. That signature / blurb / cover keeps catching my eye. Let me check it out. Oh! It's only $.99. I'll just go ahead and grab it."

Now, part of what influences that MAY be the way I shop. I have samples sent to my Kindle. Purchases I download to my PC and run through Calibre and then I have between 3 and 10 books in my "Currently Reading" collection on my Kindle.

Back to the pricing on eBooks - when I first got my Kindle I paid "standard" rates for books - including No Mercy, which I think I paid $12 for. I'm kicking myself for that today. Somebody had on their blog that the up-charge is the "I want it right now" tax. That's exactly right. And while I'm not Rowwwr! at the publishers over that, I'm also about to start exercising some patience. I can wait a year until something is released in paperback and it won't kill me. It's not like there's only three books in the world, ya know?


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

> The author is grossing more. But out of the $2 per sale the author is (or should be) paying for: editing, covers, advertising & promotion...


Let's see, when my book was published by a NYC publisher I got:

editing: no
cover: yes
advertising: no
promotion: no

Basically I got bookstore distribution and some small measure of credibility. Which are good things! I'm grateful for them! But I'm happier now self-publishing my ebook.

I thought that $4.99 was a reasonable price for a backlist book, in a world where $9.99 was considered the proper price. Since then, I've taken the price down to $2.99, and that's where it's staying for the foreseeable future.

I'm sorry if it sounds egotistical, but if _Risen _ isn't worth $2.99 to someone, I can do without the sale. It's my only book so far, so there's no reason to use it as a loss leader. I have a book of free short stories out there for that purpose. If someone's interest is so minimal that $2.99 (discounted to $2.39) is too much to pay, they need to find a friend to borrow it from...and they're welcome to do so. But basically, they aren't my market.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Arkali -- yes to all that. I do jump on a 99 cent price when it's an author I've been looking at -- usually here at the Kindleboards. But I probably would have bought the book at 2.99 too.

For Iron Duke, I'll bet it will be cheaper in a few months, and I'll be kicking myself. I just happened to have been paid on a backorder in my job and had a little "extra" spending money. So it was a purchase of opportunity.

Jan, I don't think anything you wrote was egotistical at all. Just valid business considerations.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Well, since misery loves company, can't say that I'm unhappy to hear other authors are having a sucky month too. Not sure why this is happening . . . kinda like the stock market, you can analyze it to death and still not come up with the right answer. BTW, re: prices--my pub played with the price of my funny Florida mystery *Marlin, Darlin'* and even went as low as 99 cents for a while. I sold hundreds of books and made very little $. It's been at $7.99 for a while now and selling far fewer copies, but I am making a lot more $. Go figure. I have also learned that most of the buyers of 99 centers are not my kind of readers. They are pretty unsophisticated, they like (forgive me) sappy simplistic fiction, and are quick to write knee-jerk, uninformed, critical reviews because they don't "like the ending" or couldn't follow what was happening in a novel. The FUNNIEST incidence of this I've seen so far was a highly illiterate damning review one airhead wrote of Faulkner's *The Sound and the Fury*! OMG, I still laugh when I think of it. Well, it was 99 cents, some goof bought it without the mental equipment necessary to understand it. Mind you, I am not an elitist or intellectual snob, but pricing does have an effect on the kind of readers you attract and the kindof reviews you get. My book, miraculously, still has 5 stars, in spite of a couple of slams from these kind of readers.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Heh.  Faulkner rocks   And I hear what you're saying.  Honestly, I feel much more comfortable now that I'm thinking of it as a "99 cent sample" as opposed to "That's the regular price for ALL of the author's work".


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> <snipped> I have also learned that most of the buyers of 99 centers are not my kind of readers. They are pretty unsophisticated, they like (forgive me) sappy simplistic fiction, and are quick to write knee-jerk, uninformed, critical reviews because they don't "like the ending" or couldn't follow what was happening in a novel. <snipped>


I am truly sorry that has been your experience with people who read .99 books.


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Funny  Well, I have to say my .99 auto-buys are ALREADY books I planned on sampling. It's not "Oh, .99 cents, let me buy it!" it's more "Hrrm. That signature / blurb / cover keeps catching my eye. Let me check it out. Oh! It's only $.99. I'll just go ahead and grab it."


I can sort of relate to this. I'll see a number of books in a day and think, oh I keep meaning to read these. I'll have a certain amount of money to spend so I'll often go for the cheapest ones first and leave the others for another day. I'll get around to everyone eventually but for now, I like getting a couple of the 99c ones rather than one 2.99 one. (And if I see a sale, I'm on it. I'll take your hand too.  ) At least that way I'll have a choice if I don't like one of the books. If I enjoy a book at 99c then I'll pay more for another by that author without even thinking about it though.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Sure, there is a time, place and purpose for a 99 cent price on one's books and I too LOVE a bargain. I'm a life-long bookaholic. But I've also noticed that there are a lot of crappy books out there at 99 cents, priced that way maybe as an act of desperation on an unskilled author's part. One very unpleasant side-effect to me was the 99 cent "temporary introductory price" on *Marlin, Darlin'* resulted in a few of those books showing up on MD's Amazon page as "Other books customers bought who bought this title." And they are stuck there like glue because so many copies were sold of MD at 99 cents! It's embarrassing! I am a professional writer who has written over 20 books, both under my name and as a ghost-writer for celebs and prominent people who didn't have the time or skill to write their own. All have gotten good reviews, some great reviews. One novel I wrote for a guy got a starred rave review in Publishers Weekly and was made into a movie. And here I am stuck with that crap on my book's page because of a pricing maneuver by the publisher! Something to consider before low-balling the prices on your books. Rather immodestly (forgive me) I have to say my mysteries have been compared to the best of Janet Evanovich, reminiscent of Carl Hiassen, blah blah blah . . It's very easy for a potential buyer to miss these comments when there arfehard to miss sub-par 99 centers big as life in living color next to MD's cover! Ha. The [pThe irony is a painful one!


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## Cliff Ball (Apr 10, 2010)

I decided to go ahead and price Out of Time, my first novel, since its only 30K words, at $.99 permanently. I've experimented with various prices over the last 2 1/2 years, starting at where iUniverse themselves priced it, which was $6.99, I think, then I dropped it down to $5, then to $3.99. This year alone, I've gone from $.99 to $2.99, where Amazon dropped it to $1.39, and I sold more when it was $.99, so I re-priced it to $.99.  I've made that change to Nook and Smashwords, so I'll see how that'll work.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> And they are stuck there like glue because so many copies were sold of MD at 99 cents! It's embarrassing! I am a professional writer who has written over 20 books, both under my name and as a ghost-writer for celebs and prominent people who didn't have the time or skill to write their own. All have gotten good reviews, some great reviews. One novel I wrote for a guy got a starred rave review in Publishers Weekly and was made into a movie. And here I am stuck with that crap on my book's page because of a pricing maneuver by the publisher!


Aaah, I just love it when professional writers go indie. It's so fun reading posts like this.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

There's this great scene in _You've Got Mail _ where Joe Fox, the owner of big bookstore chain that offers cheap books, goes up to the counter of the small indie bookstore to pay for his purchases. The clerk rings him up, and when Joe hears how much the total is, he raises his brows and says something like, "How much do these books cost?" The clerk assumes a slightly miffed air and replies, "How much are these books WORTH?" as if changing the word cost to worth somehow made Joe's question one of dubious moral origin.

To me, my novel's worth is priceless. It's an idea, a feeling, and who can set a price on an idea or feeling? When I read a great poem or story, whether it's in a book I bought or one I borrrowed from the library, I never think about monetary price or how much the writer made in terms of money. I'm too excited about what feelings the writing evokes or what ideas it presents to worry about money, unless I'm reading a book about economic theory. Another example would be when I look at a Van Gogh hanging in a museum. When I'm in front of a beautiful painting, I never think about how many dollars it would cost to buy.

Because I value my novel's worth, my thought is that I want as many people reading it as possible. I want to share it because I believe it's a great story, a great idea, a great feeling, and I'm excited about it. If pricing it at $0.99 at first helps me get it out to more people (which seems to be the case, at least for me), then I'm all for that.

As the daughter of two artists, I'm here to say that in the arts arena, price is based on demand and brand/name recognition, not on what something is worth. When the demand for my work increases because more people know about my writing, then I can increase the price.

Even if I never sold another book, I'd still keep writing because of the psychological and spiritual growth I attain from the creative process. I do dream of eventually making a living from my writing because I want more time to write, and having a day job tends to interfere with that.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Will do Orc.  I'm sorry to sound like a whiner. And I do sound like a whiner--I re-read my posts. Actually I'm not a thoroughbred indie.  Cedar Hill Press has done a couple of my ebooks.  But I am sorely tempted to become an indie through and through.  The freedom to do it exactly the way I want to do it! Yeah, man.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> Will do Orc. I'm sorry to sound like a whiner. And I do sound like a whiner--I re-read my posts.


No problem. I just kinda want to gently remind you that we have plenty of authors here with 99 cent novels (myself included), as well as many readers who buy and enjoy 99 cent books (myself and my wife included), and any sweeping generalizations about quality, reader intelligence, or desperation probably aren't going to go over well.

David Dalglish


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> There's this great scene in _You've Got Mail _ where Joe Fox, the owner of big bookstore chain that offers cheap books, goes up to the counter of the small indie bookstore to pay for his purchases. The clerk rings him up, and when Joe hears how much the total is, he raises his brows and says something like, "How much do these books cost?" The clerk assumes a slightly miffed air and replies, "How much are these books WORTH?" as if changing the word cost to worth somehow made Joe's question one of dubious moral origin.
> 
> To me, my novel's worth is priceless . . .
> 
> As the daughter of two artists, I'm here to say that in the arts arena, price is based on demand and brand/name recognition, not on what something is worth. When the demand for my work increases because more people know about my writing, then I can increase the price. . .


That was very eloquently put. 'Worth' is a relative term and perhaps we ought not to confuse it with cost/price.


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> This price thing is such a weird gamble to me--like the stock market. It seems like it should have some kind of scientific logic to it, but it really doesn't. Perhaps someone who made better grades in math than I did can explain it to me.
> 
> That said, I am selling more books at $0.99 than I did at $2.99, though, so I'm going to leave _Witch Awakening_ at $0.99 and then charge $2.99 for the sequel, since I figure most people who enjoyed _Witch Awakening_ will probably be willing to pay more for the sequel, and those who haven't read any of the series will start with _Witch Awakening_ anyway. So . . . best of luck to all of you and have a good night . . .


I think that's fair to do. I would be willing to try a book for .99 and then buy the sequels for more if I enjoyed it that much.

Good luck.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

David, you are so right, and I didn't intend to imply that price has anything to do with the quality of a book, only that many folks will indiscriminately buy 99 cent books without respect to anything but price. This creates a sargasso sea marketing-wise for the good books at that price.

On Friday I received an email from my pub wanting to drop the price of a new title I have up (a parody-satire, not a FL mystery) called *The Dead Goat Scrolls* because they want to get more exposure for the book. Currently it's priced at $4.99 and they want to drop it to 99 cents! So of course the price will be dropped! This is not a book for everyone; the humor is irreverent and rather "twisted." I'm sure lots of people will buy it because of the price and be disappointed with it because some of it is salty, tongue-in-cheek and not for the faint of heart, although the publisher took great care in creating an accurate product description so this wouldn't happen. I'm worried about the angry reviews I will get from readers who were not the intended audience for the book. Oh, well. That's life. We all soldier on. Onward and upward.

I did not mean to offend anyone because I've read lots of terrific 99 cent Kindle editions.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> David, you are so right, and I didn't intend to imply that price has anything to do with the quality of a book, only that many folks will indiscriminately buy 99 cent books without respect to anything but price. This creates a sargasso sea marketing-wise for the good books at that price.


I think the issue is still important: I have a children novel and cozy mysteries, and Amazon is telling people that other customers who liked my books also liked Joe Konrath's books.... which may be true. But honestly, it's not quite the same demographic.

HOWEVER - That's as much a blessing as a curse. As a reader, I like to hear about odd things that are not an obvious tie-in. I want a genuine taste connection, though - and that only comes when a sufficient number of people of different demographics have been exposed to the book, and have bought it. Right now, the major demographic for our books are the Indie Groupies. Thank goodness for them, but because they support all indies it's hard for regular readers (who aren't specifically looking for indie books) to sort us out into genres and styles.

I'm sure that will fix itself slowly as more people read our books. I look forward to the day when people see classic mysteries listed under my mystery western, so that maybe some readers who were thinking "Westerns! Ew!" will give a sample a try.

Camille


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

I think the "people will buy anything long as it is 99 cents" isn't the strongest, though. I think it is 100% accurate for *free* books, though. But I think the advantages of 99 cents means that if the reader is at all interested, they will buy it. With a 2.99-6.99 book, an interested reader will most likely sample.

Things a 99 cent price tag CAN do for you:

1. Make it easier to advertise and get your book added to various sites and lists promoting cheap kindle reads.

2. Help make up for a weak product description or cover, i.e. gaining a couple "oh what the heck" readers who might pass on it if it were of higher cost to them. This is not exactly a formula for major success, though.

Now if you're someone who has a lot of good reviews, solid cover and product description, a 99 cent price tag can catapult you fairly high into rankings (Vicki's Not What She Seems is a good example of this), gaining additional exposure which can then lead to more sales, more reviews, more exposure...

I think too many people automatically assume they can drop their price to 99 cents and then the sales will follow like magic. The biggest obstacle to indie success isn't a fair price or a good cover; it's getting people to even know you exist. Doesn't matter how good your cover or description or even your book is if people don't know you're alive. A 99 cent price can help at this, but it won't do all the work.

David Dalglish


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

farrellclaire said:


> If I enjoy a book at 99c then I'll pay more for another by that author without even thinking about it though.


Me, too. Just ask Half-Orc


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> That was very eloquently put. 'Worth' is a relative term and perhaps we ought not to confuse it with cost/price.


Thanks! Your one sentence sum-up is exactly what I was trying to convey in that post.

@monkeyluis

Thanks for the well wishes!


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> I think too many people automatically assume they can drop their price to 99 cents and then the sales will follow like magic. *The biggest obstacle to indie success isn't a fair price or a good cover; it's getting people to even know you exist.* Doesn't matter how good your cover or description or even your book is if people don't know you're alive. A 99 cent price can help at this, but it won't do all the work.
> 
> David Dalglish


Yes. I totally agree with this. Just look at DB Henson. Why is her 99 cent book in the top 100 so much? (Of course, it's a good book... but there are good books that are not in the top 100...) I think it's exposure. And some luck. But mostly because people *know* about her book. (And once you get into the top 100 your book shows up on all those suggestions... and that helps you keep the high rank.)

I am at 99 cents right now mostly as an experiment to see what it would do for me. I'm not DB Henson yet, but I hope to get there. I don't think I can get there at $2.99. I thought maybe I could before my KND thing, but that just proved it to me, when my sales slowed waaaaay down again after it was done. I didn't get a big enough bump to make a difference.

Vicki


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

I think we're all having to experiment a lot... seems like none of our results are correlating right now


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> I think too many people automatically assume they can drop their price to 99 cents and then the sales will follow like magic. The biggest obstacle to indie success isn't a fair price or a good cover; it's getting people to even know you exist. Doesn't matter how good your cover or description or even your book is if people don't know you're alive. A 99 cent price can help at this, but it won't do all the work.


Exactly! It's just one more tool that we can choose to use to invite readers to try our book.

One other point I've seen discussed here is that when a book is priced at .99, instead of getting paired with books in the same genre, the 'Customers who bought this, also bought...' section is filled with more bargain books from other, sometimes unrelated genres. Yes, it would be great for me if my book was showing up on the pages with other bestselling historical fiction authors' books, like Philippa Gregory or Bernard Cornwell. BUT, if I'm not selling enough of my book to show up there anyway, that's not going to happen and it's still zero visibility.

Now if it shows up on the pages of several other bargain books, it is at least showing up somewhere and there's a chance that some of those customers actually do read HF. So say they're on a bargain book's page and it's a thriller, but they also sometimes read HF and they look down and there's my book. They click on it. If the synopsis and sample appeal, they'll buy it.

Visibility.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Just an example - I've had my eye on Jason Letts' Powerless series for a while.  I downloaded a sample a while back - over 2 or 3 weeks ago, I think.  I noticed today in the daily KB book ad that he's got it on sale for .99 cents.  I plan to buy it over lunch.  Because a) I paid for it and b) I have the whole book it will probably be read before the weekend rolls around.  If I like it, it's pretty much a sure thing that I'll buy book #2.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Please tell this stupe (me) what the daily Kindle book ad is and wheere it appears . . .


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Margaret,

At the top of the page, beneath the Kindle/Google search fields and above the [home] [Profile] [Messages] menu bar.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> Please tell this stupe (me) what the daily Kindle book ad is and wheere it appears . . .


Look in the upper right hand corner, a little rectangle with a book featured in it. It's a brand new feature, so easy to miss right now. It's pretty cool, though!


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Just an example - I've had my eye on Jason Letts' Powerless series for a while. I downloaded a sample a while back - over 2 or 3 weeks ago, I think. I noticed today in the daily KB book ad that he's got it on sale for .99 cents. I plan to buy it over lunch. Because a) I paid for it and b) I have the whole book it will probably be read before the weekend rolls around. If I like it, it's pretty much a sure thing that I'll buy book #2.


And this is exactly why a lower price for the first book in a series makes perfect sense!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Any price on a book makes sense, if its good enough and you have readers. There's no science to it - take it from me. However, every author who enters the pit, looks for a way to better understand that gladiator, Pricing, only to find out its gonna stick you no matter how well you think you understand it. That's what I liked about the title of this thread. IT'sTRUE. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> And this is exactly why a lower price for the first book in a series makes perfect sense!


I'd go so far as to say it doesn't even have to be a series, as long as it's representative of your work. What I mean by this - if you write cozy mysteries primarily (non-related, different settings and characters, but all cozies) and you've also written one Romance - don't put the Romance on sale. You'd want to put one of the cozies on sale, so as to entice people to buy more if they liked that one.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

One thing that would really help in making pricing decisions, would be the ability to see how many copies a particular ebook sold at that price.  (I know it's wishful thinking, due to privacy concerns.)

But I watch the new books go by on Smashwords - $1.99 for a 500 word short story - $12.99 for self-help book - $29.99 for some technical manual - $8.99 for a novel - and I ask myself, is ANYONE buying this stuff?  Or are these things just floating out there, ignored by everyone and misrepresenting reality?


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Any price on a book makes sense, if its good enough and you have readers. There's no science to it - take it from me. However, every author who enters the pit, looks for a way to better understand that gladiator, Pricing, only to find out its gonna stick you no matter how well you think you understand it. That's what I liked about the title of this thread. IT'sTRUE.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Every time I read the title of this thread I think, "Well, of course price matters. Just change your price to $1,000 and see if it matters!" So, the question isn't really if price *matters* or not, it's whether or not you'll sell enough at a lower price to justify the lowering of the price.

Sometimes the answer is yes, and sometimes the answer is no. It's as simple as that.

I don't think anyone would argue that a 99 cent price is silly, beneath them, or not enough for their work, if they lowered their own book to 99 cents and started selling 200 books a day. (That's $2,100 a month.) Unless of course they were selling 100 books a day at $3.99. It's all relative.

Vicki


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Vincent Price will ALWAYS matter...


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Every time I read the title of this thread I think, "Well, of course price matters. Just change your price to $1,000 and see if it matters!" So, the question isn't really if price *matters* or not, it's whether or not you'll sell enough at a lower price to justify the lowering of the price.
> 
> Sometimes the answer is yes, and sometimes the answer is no. It's as simple as that.
> 
> I don't think anyone would argue that a 99 cent price is silly, beneath them, or not enough for their work, if they lowered their own book to 99 cents and started selling 200 books a day. (That's $2,100 a month.) Unless of course they were selling 100 books a day at $3.99. It's all relative.


I think the takeaway from this thread should be that price is not a magic bullet. It may catch people's attention, it may even move your book from a "sample before buy" to an "auto-buy", but at the end of the day, your success as an author does not rest on whether you price your book at $0.99 instead of $2.99. If you write a good book and do a good job promoting it, you'll get sales, even if it takes some time to build momentum. If you don't write a good book, or don't promote your book effectively, a $0.99 price isn't going to guarantee success.

Granted, nobody will succeed if they charge $1,000 for a novel.  So price does matter at the extremes, but I think it's clear that when you're talking $0.99 vs. $2.99, there are far too many other factors at play (some of which we cannot hope to understand) to chalk up a book's success vs. failure to the difference of $2.00.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

I'll agree with that, Flannery, 100%


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Arkali said:


> I'll agree with that, Flannery, 100%


OK, confession time. As a former marketing exec for major publishers (Random House, Doubleday) for many years before I became a full time writer, I was steeped in the practices and mysteries of traditional publishing--and still am as my husband is publisher, though not mine. I know what works at that end and what doesn't. I know that 99% of the titles published that route are financial losses for the publisher, that most books never earn out their advances and become write-offs, that publishers' marketing $ and time and effort are focused on established name brand authors, something that almost dooms any new title from the outset. But publishers are no better than the average informed reader at picking good mss. to publish, and the really good ones they select from new authors usually drop like a stone when they hit the marketplace because of feeble marketing follow through (even though new authors are seduced by pubs promises to make them a household name). There are so many things scandalously wasteful and deceptive of the old model that it was fated to fail as soon as a better delivery system was developed freeing the author to sink or swim by him/herself.
I wholeheartedly embraced ebooks and indie publishing when it became a reality. Amazon has changed the rules of the game and all too the good! But the initial result in all radically new endeavors is temporary chaos and confusion until things get sorted out. PRICE is onlyone of MANY variables indie authors have to play with and fine tune. It's important surely to get people to BUY and READ new authors in this arena, but it's good to be advised that a really low price also has its downside and that is many people will buy anything at 99 cents and you are not going to always attract, with the Amazon system, your intended target audience and receive an appreciative response from your readers. And the way Amazon currently works with its reader reviews and ranking system, you are often going to be categorized with entirely incompatible books and reader demographics. Still, it's a wonderful brave new world and I love it!


----------



## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> Amazon has changed the rules of the game and all too the good! But the initial result in all radically new endeavors is temporary chaos and confusion until things get sorted out. PRICE is onlyone of MANY variables indie authors have to play with and fine tune.


Amen. A 99 cent price point works if you know exactly what you're going for. If your book has been on sale for 4 months and hasn't gotten hardly any sales or reviews, suddenly lowering it to 99 cents won't result in a great flood of buys. Odds are high something else is wrong.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> OK, confession time. As a former marketing exec for major publishers (Random House, Doubleday) for many years before I became a full time writer, I was steeped in the practices and mysteries of traditional publishing--and still am as my husband is publisher, though not mine. I know what works at that end and what doesn't. I know that 99% of the titles published that route are financial losses for the publisher, that most books never earn out their advances and become write-offs, that publishers' marketing $ and time and effort are focused on established name brand authors, something that almost dooms any new title from the outset. But publishers are no better than the average informed reader at picking good mss. to publish, and the really good ones they select from new authors usually drop like a stone when they hit the marketplace because of feeble marketing follow through (even though new authors are seduced by pubs promises to make them a household name). There are so many things scandalously wasteful and deceptive of the old model that it was fated to fail as soon as a better delivery system was developed freeing the author to sink or swim by him/herself.
> I wholeheartedly embraced ebooks and indie publishing when it became a reality. Amazon has changed the rules of the game and all too the good! But the initial result in all radically new endeavors is temporary chaos and confusion until things get sorted out. PRICE is onlyone of MANY variables indie authors have to play with and fine tune. It's important surely to get people to BUY and READ new authors in this arena, but it's good to be advised that a really low price also has its downside and that is many people will buy anything at 99 cents and you are not going to always attract, with the Amazon system, your intended target audience and receive an appreciative response from your readers. And the way Amazon currently works with its reader reviews and ranking system, you are often going to be categorized with entirely incompatible books and reader demographics. Still, it's a wonderful brave new world and I love it!


Wonderful post, and definitely one of the major reasons I went indie. I've read too many of these stories to be seduced into the traditional market. If I sink or swim, I want it to be by my own successes or failures.

Vicki


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Here's some questions for you, David since you have a series and the first one is .99 cents, while subsequent titles are $2.99.  

* Was The Weight of Blood always 99 cents, or did it start out at $2.99?
* If it was $2.99 originally, did lowering it to 99 cents not only increase the sales of WoB, but also of books 2 and 3 (and now 4)?


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Here's some questions for you, David since you have a series and the first one is .99 cents, while subsequent titles are $2.99.
> 
> * Was The Weight of Blood always 99 cents, or did it start out at $2.99?
> * If it was $2.99 originally, did lowering it to 99 cents not only increase the sales of WoB, but also of books 2 and 3 (and now 4)?


I launched it at 99 cents about 8 months ago and have at no point raised the price. I have, however, messed around with the prices of book 2. Believe it or not, sales of book 1 went down when I raised the price of book 2 up to $2.99. Tried in two separate instances, and both times I watched book 1's sales cut in half. The biggest boost I've seen, consistently, is that with each release of a new book, sales of book 1 always jump upward a healthy amount.

David Dalglish


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> I launched it at 99 cents about 8 months ago and have at no point raised the price. I have, however, messed around with the prices of book 2. Believe it or not, sales of book 1 went down when I raised the price of book 2 up to $2.99. Tried in two separate instances, and both times I watched book 1's sales cut in half. The biggest boost I've seen, consistently, is that with each release of a new book, sales of book 1 always jump upward a healthy amount.
> 
> David Dalglish


What about unrelated books? Did the release of A Dance of Cloaks make your Weight of Blood jump up in sales?

Just curious.

Vicki


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Hrm...I don't have nearly detailed enough records to track that. Dance's sales started out much slower than book 4's has, though its to the point now where I sell like 10-15 a day. If I remember correctly, I actually was having a bit of a slump in book 1's sales for the month I released Dance. So initially, no. Now that it has sold a couple hundred copies, there's not really any way for me to know the extent of its help.

David Dalglish


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Edgar Allan Poe, Walt Whitman, Mark Twain--all self published their early works and tirelessly flogged the h*ll out of them all over the country, selling them out of suitcases and boxes. Their books were golden, but no one would have known had they not done this. Same holds true today.  Twain eventually became a Doubleday author . . . . Having worked there I can tell you some funny stories I discovered about his publishing history with them.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> Edgar Allen Poe, Walt Whitman, Mark Twain--all self published their early works and tirelessly flogged the h*ll out of them all over the country, selling them out of suitcases and boxes.


Yes, and what we're doing now is the 21st century equivalent! But lucky us, we get to share our experiences and learn (hopefully) much quicker about what generally works or does not.


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> Hrm...I don't have nearly detailed enough records to track that. Dance's sales started out much slower than book 4's has, though its to the point now where I sell like 10-15 a day. If I remember correctly, I actually was having a bit of a slump in book 1's sales for the month I released Dance. So initially, no. Now that it has sold a couple hundred copies, there's not really any way for me to know the extent of its help.
> 
> David Dalglish


I bougt the half-orc series. The 1st, a couple of weeks ago & then the other 3 last night. How zooms does amazon show you the results. Also the pricing was not consistent & that was a little weird. Was that your choice or amazons? Just curious as it's interesting to get the behind the scenes of how amazon works.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

monkeyluis said:


> I bougt the half-orc series. The 1st, a couple of weeks ago & then the other 3 last night. How zooms does amazon show you the results. Also the pricing was not consistent & that was a little weird. Was that your choice or amazons? Just curious as it's interesting to get the behind the scenes of how amazon works.


Not sure what you mean by how zoom (soon?) Amazon shows results, but generally sales are real time, so most of us here can all track our sales daily.

As for pricing, that was my choice, and it isn't -terribly- inconsistent. The first and second books are 99 cents. The third and fourth (and eventually fifth) will all be $2.99. The reason book 2 is cheaper is, frankly, book 1 is the weakest of the entire series. Not only that, book 2 is probably the strongest. So I'm doing whatever I can to ensure that I can get readers to transition over from book 1 to book 2. From there I've got 'em, and can charge a more respectable $2.99 . There you go. Behind the scenes thinking of a crazy author in Missouri.

Hope you enjoy, btw!

David Dalglish


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## RonnellDPorter (Apr 20, 2010)

Ach mein gott; I come back and this is still going. I'm almost afraid to read every response, but I have to because I've already seen some great insights - thanks for participating everybody!


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Heh.  Mainly it's just me running my mouth - but it HAS been a great thread.  Well, aside from me running my mouth


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> Not sure what you mean by how zoom (soon?) Amazon shows results, but generally sales are real time, so most of us here can all track our sales daily.
> 
> As for pricing, that was my choice, and it isn't -terribly- inconsistent. The first and second books are 99 cents. The third and fourth (and eventually fifth) will all be $2.99. The reason book 2 is cheaper is, frankly, book 1 is the weakest of the entire series. Not only that, book 2 is probably the strongest. So I'm doing whatever I can to ensure that I can get readers to transition over from book 1 to book 2. From there I've got 'em, and can charge a more respectable $2.99 . There you go. Behind the scenes thinking of a crazy author in Missouri.
> 
> ...


Ha, yes, Soon. I was typing on my iPhone and probably hit the wrong key and it auto-corrected.

Thanks though, Look forward too them.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Yes, and what we're doing now is the 21st century equivalent! But lucky us, we get to share our experiences and learn (hopefully) much quicker about what generally works or does not.


What I really appreciate is that there are people here very willing to share what they've learned, what's worked for them and what hasn't. That's priceless. So thanks, everyone.

Oh, wait, when did the thread title change


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> Oh, wait, when did the thread title change


I'm so confused...


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

LKRigel said:



> I'm so confused...


Me too. Gremlins?


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Did you know when you click to respond, you can change the thread title for your response to whatever you want?

Heh... yeah... cool.

But I have no idea of that's how the thread title got changed or not. 

Vicki


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

had to try...


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Victorine said:


> Every time I read the title of this thread I think, "Well, of course price matters. Just change your price to $1,000 and see if it matters!" So, the question isn't really if price *matters* or not, it's whether or not you'll sell enough at a lower price to justify the lowering of the price.
> 
> Sometimes the answer is yes, and sometimes the answer is no. It's as simple as that.
> 
> ...


What I meant was that price analysis really doesn;t matter, because as a former Marketing Exec, this industry is unlike any other and authors tend to see their books like cans of peas when they start thinking price. I went that road when I started publishing on the Kindle and learned that lesson, and by saying this I'm just saying that four years from now, authors will be asking the same question and analysing the same can of peas looking for the answer. Why is the sky blue, Mommy? Well, you know, it's sometime blue, sometimes pink and red dawn in the morning, sailor take warning.  I'd love to see all the posts, including this one, on pricing put into a book and sold for $.01. What a bargain - $.01 for a 5,000 page book. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> OK, confession time. As a former marketing exec for major publishers (Random House, Doubleday) for many years before I became a full time writer, I was steeped in the practices and mysteries of traditional publishing--and still am as my husband is publisher, though not mine. I know what works at that end and what doesn't. I know that 99% of the titles published that route are financial losses for the publisher, that most books never earn out their advances and become write-offs, that publishers' marketing $ and time and effort are focused on established name brand authors, something that almost dooms any new title from the outset. But publishers are no better than the average informed reader at picking good mss. to publish, and the really good ones they select from new authors usually drop like a stone when they hit the marketplace because of feeble marketing follow through (even though new authors are seduced by pubs promises to make them a household name). There are so many things scandalously wasteful and deceptive of the old model that it was fated to fail as soon as a better delivery system was developed freeing the author to sink or swim by him/herself.


Thank you so much for posting this. I've been trying to tell the writers in my local critique groups (most of whom are still trying the traditional route of agents and big publishers) that the times, they are a-changin. But when I talk about e-books and kindles and formatting, they get these glazed, polite stares that tell me they think I'm a bit crazy. I have all this enthusiasm about what I've done with my book, and this is the only place I can share it with fellow writers. I appreciate this forum.


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## bvlarson (May 16, 2010)

In my experience it depends on the book on a case by case basis. On average, for me, lowering the price to the bottom triples the sales. But not always.
-BVL


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## iamstoryteller (Jul 16, 2010)

So glad I happened upon this thread. One can't read them all (at least if that one is madly trying to promote their book) but of course the title caught my eye. So apparently Price really does matter, lol.

I am truly impressed with the thoughtful and informative posts on here. This is a true community and a godsend for those navigating this new world of indie publishing. So my heartfelt gratitude to all who take the time to share their experiences, both the readers and the indies. I don't know where I could buy any better or more current advice.

As for my own indie author venture, my book is very niche and my struggle is finding the places where my tarket market hang out so I can reach the most folks. I read somewhere that the process is drip, drip drip, but I have revised that to my own vision of drip, drip, drip, *drop  * ~ and now the bucket starts to overflow. I'm a long way from that but dripping every single moment I can.

Having been in business pretty much my entire adult life I know that price sometimes matters and I've had as much success raising a price on an item as dropping it. So I am keeping my price up there, at least for the near future while I build up my brand, though I may change it now and again for a short while when I am doing a paid or otherwise grand promotion.

In my case though I can see a trilogy around my book the next one could not happen quickly, so the first book at .99 and the rest higher would not work for me but I can certainly see the value in that for the prolific writers out there with established genres.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> ...There are so many things scandalously wasteful and deceptive of the old model that it was fated to fail as soon as a better delivery system was developed freeing the author to sink or swim by him/herself. ...


Well, a part of the issue is that with paper books, marketing all depended on the bookstores and distributors. They were the primary customers of the publishers, and the limitations of shelf-space ruled the day.

It's going to take a while for all parts of the system to adjust. Readers, writers AND publishers. One of the big things for success in the future is to watch and be flexible. As more and more readers get into this, and new systems crop up, there will be moments of resonance - when several different things fall in together and magnify the effect. When those things start to develop, it's good to be ready to catch that wave.

Camille


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> Thank you so much for posting this. I've been trying to tell the writers in my local critique groups (most of whom are still trying the traditional route of agents and big publishers) that the times, they are a-changin. But when I talk about e-books and kindles and formatting, they get these glazed, polite stares that tell me they think I'm a bit crazy. I have all this enthusiasm about what I've done with my book, and this is the only place I can share it with fellow writers. I appreciate this forum.


Every writer here is a pioneer. There are no traditions, hard and fast rules/standards for indie authors and ebooks yet. It is a real marketing challenge for all of us. But as a former publishing marketing exec, I will say this: the principle of target marketing still applies. You have to search out effective ways to reach your desired audience and not waste time on shot-gun approaches, which can be disasterous for a writer's career and rep. Example: If you're writing steamy romances you don't want a budget minded Sister Rose Marie snapping up your books just because they are 99 cents and the title suggest the book is about the Virgin Mary! Never as before have disappo


purplepen79 said:


> Thank you so much for posting this. I've been trying to tell the writers in my local critique groups (most of whom are still trying the traditional route of agents and big publishers) that the times, they are a-changin. But when I talk about e-books and kindles and formatting, they get these glazed, polite stares that tell me they think I'm a bit crazy. I have all this enthusiasm about what I've done with my book, and this is the only place I can share it with fellow writers. I appreciate this forum.


inted, confused or outraged mis-readers been able to torpedo a book's chances because Amazon allows anyone and everyone to howl and flame in their review system. Perhaps the biggest problem in that regard is that the traditional book review media, which still has the greatest credibility for serious readers, refuses to review ebook originals. Why? Behind the scenes, and I know because I write book reviews for the L.A. Times, Publishers weekly etc., the Old Guard thinks that most of them are crap and they don't want to wade through a swamp to find a rare pearl. Everything will sort itself out eventually, but it's a confusing juncture in the process right now.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> Example: If you're writing steamy romances you don't want a budget minded Sister Rose Marie snapping up your books just because they are 99 cents and the title suggest the book is about the Virgin Mary!


   

Which is exactly why I put half-naked women on my covers. Keeps the nuns away.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

swolf said:


> Which is exactly why I put half-naked women on my covers. Keeps the nuns away.


All except the ones with high-speed internet and valid credit card accounts...

 Maria


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> Behind the scenes thinking of a crazy author in Missouri.


Crazy like a genius.

(smile)

By the way, David, what has been your approach with iBooks? I've seen your first listed for free. I assume this is a means to get some interest when how to advertise to the platform is otherwise unclear (anybody know?). How about the other titles? How are you pricing those, and how is it going? We're all interested, after all, you're making a living at this now (congrats, by the way).



swolf said:


> Which is exactly why I put half-naked women on my covers. Keeps the nuns away.


(GRIN)


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

RonnellDPorter said:


> Ach mein gott; I come back and this is still going.


and going and going and going and goig and going and going . . . 
and going ...............................
and ...............
a ......................
going.

Edward C. Patterson


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Well, one of the reason it is still going is because it isn't just about price.  It's about marketing, and we will always be talking about marketing.

Camille


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> By the way, David, what has been your approach with iBooks? I've seen your first listed for free. I assume this is a means to get some interest when how to advertise to the platform is otherwise unclear (anybody know?). How about the other titles? How are you pricing those, and how is it going? We're all interested, after all, you're making a living at this now (congrats, by the way).


iBookstore's been pure luck. I made my first book free without even realizing it would carry over to the iBookstore at that price. From there, it just took a bit before it started climbing the charts. I personally blame the cover. It looks absolutely gorgeous on the iPad. Now I think it is just carrying on momentum. As for price, the second is 1.99, the third 2.99, and the fourth 2.99. I average about 300 sales a month there, netting the $350 or so.

As for advertising...I have none. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I am not a big fan of the interface AT ALL. Amazon is wonderful at getting your books added to others, lists, etc. iBookstore has none of that. If I didn't have my first book free, I doubt I'd have more than 5 sales a month.

David Dalglish


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> I average about 300 sales a month there, netting the $350 or so... I am not a big fan of the interface AT ALL.


Great info, and great to hear you're doing that well. About the interface, yeah I agree. There is no tagging to let readers search based on their topics of interest. On top of that they don't even have my genre right. The choice in iTunes Producer I selected was "Science Fiction / Adventure." The result is "Adventure." Working on that and a description update (Apple and Amazon seem to move on the same time scale). Regardless (having followed your example), my first title is moving slowly at free, and building some momentum. Only one sale of the second title so far ($2.99).

Since I don't have an iPad, I ran down to BestBuy to play with one and see how everything looked. Nice, it's formatted correctly, and yes, cover artwork looks absolutely delicious on that thing, wow. So I went around to all the demo models and downloaded samples of my books, opened up the samples and left each iPad on the covers, showing them on display in the store. Hehehehe. I need to go back this weekend and refresh a few screens. Hehehehe.


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> Since I don't have an iPad, I ran down to BestBuy to play with one and see how everything looked. Nice, it's formatted correctly, and yes, cover artwork looks absolutely delicious on that thing, wow. So I went around to all the demo models and downloaded samples of my books, opened up the samples and left each iPad on the covers, showing them on display in the store. Hehehehe. I need to go back this weekend and refresh a few screens. Hehehehe.


Oh how devilish. I like! Do that at an apple store too. I bought your 1st book on amazon a little earlier this afternoon. Interesting concept, look forward too it.


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

monkeyluis said:


> I bought your 1st book on amazon a little earlier this afternoon. Interesting concept, look forward too it.


Right on! Thanks. The third and final of this tale is oh oh oh so close. My editor is tough and the list of changes/clarifications was long. One issue left to address and it's time for final polish, and she gets to see it one last time. It should be out by January. Thanks, monkeyluis, for your interest and for picking up a copy. Enjoy the ride.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> Since I don't have an iPad, I ran down to BestBuy to play with one and see how everything looked. Nice, it's formatted correctly, and yes, cover artwork looks absolutely delicious on that thing, wow. So I went around to all the demo models and downloaded samples of my books, opened up the samples and left each iPad on the covers, showing them on display in the store. Hehehehe. I need to go back this weekend and refresh a few screens. Hehehehe.


Now this is brilliant marketing! A+ In the trade they call it guerrilla marketing--get in there and market opportunistically. Hats off to you, bro!


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> Right on! Thanks. The third and final of this tale is oh oh oh so close. My editor is tough and the list of changes/clarifications was long. One issue left to address and it's time for final polish, and she gets to see it one last time. It should be out by January. Thanks, monkeyluis, for your interest and for picking up a copy. Enjoy the ride.


I'll let you know my thoughts. You authors on here are making spend a lot.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> So I went around to all the demo models and downloaded samples of my books, opened up the samples and left each iPad on the covers, showing them on display in the store. Hehehehe. I need to go back this weekend and refresh a few screens. Hehehehe.


Oy, what a clever idea! I shall now have to call up all my friends and relatives and get them to go to their nearest ereader outlets and start doing this for me!


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

A friend of mine has an iPad (he's a game programmer) so I got to fool around. Just unbelievable. Trying to find out a book's rank is a nightmare. Even knowing what I'm looking for, it can be tough to find my own book. But man, when it loads up the cover full screen, just gorgeous.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> Since I don't have an iPad, I ran down to BestBuy to play with one and see how everything looked. Nice, it's formatted correctly, and yes, cover artwork looks absolutely delicious on that thing, wow. So I went around to all the demo models and downloaded samples of my books, opened up the samples and left each iPad on the covers, showing them on display in the store. Hehehehe. I need to go back this weekend and refresh a few screens. Hehehehe.


Retail staff aren't paid much, remember... pick your strategy correctly and you might not ever need to do it yourself ever again...


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## iamstoryteller (Jul 16, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Yes, the author is doing the part of the publisher as well. From what I've seen, most writers are spending at least twice the time doing the publisher's job as the writer's job. It's never ending.
> 
> How much the writer is making percentage-wise is not at all a fair consideration. Most writers are making pennies per hour, and working their a** off for it. It's plenty fair to decide what a book is worth to you based on your own budget and needs, but the only thing you can judge the author on is the work itself. You have no idea their situation. You have no idea how much money they are actually making or how much they "deserve" it or not.


I am working my way up the posts on this thread. Camille, your posts are always so thoughtful and right on the money (no pun intended). Thanks for taking your valuable time to post such valuable comments.


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## iamstoryteller (Jul 16, 2010)

R. Doug said:


> So true. I call it the Walmartization of American society, where cheap trumps quality almost every time.... We as a nation are becoming far too comfortable with the prospect of short-term gain at the expense of long-term benefit.
> 
> Books are no different from any other commodity, and it's only a matter of time before the only thing you'll be reading at the 99¢-to-$1.99 range will be authors working in some computer station sweatshop in India, and the quality authors will have long-since given up on trying to sell their goods at a living wage and moved on to some other creative outlet.


ROFLMAO

And Walmartization is creeping into Canada as well <sigh...> Think I aught to move to Australia.
Sharon


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

bvlarson said:


> In my experience it depends on the book on a case by case basis. On average, for me, lowering the price to the bottom triples the sales. But not always.
> -BVL


That's interesting, but don't you make more money at $2.99 with one third the sales than you do at $0.99 with three times the sales? Unless you're trying to seed sales for other books with a $0.99 introductory read, it seems like you should be at $2.99.


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## kayakruthie (Jan 28, 2010)

I decided to lower the price on "Confessions" from $2.99 to $1.99, but, apparently, I put $199.  Whoops!  I wonder if price will make a difference.  Ha!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

kayakruthie said:


> I decided to lower the price on "Confessions" from $2.99 to $1.99, but, apparently, I put $199. Whoops! I wonder if price will make a difference. Ha!


LOL!

Fwiw, I think $1.99 is a bit of a no man's land for kindle books. You lose the 70%, but don't really entice the super deal of a 99 center.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

kayakruthie said:


> I decided to lower the price on "Confessions" from $2.99 to $1.99, but, apparently, I put $199. Whoops! I wonder if price will make a difference. Ha!


If you get any sales at that price, let us know. Maybe there's an untapped market out there.

Hmm, my next title:

The Powerball Winner's Guide to Getting Women - Price: $5,999.00


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## David Greene (Oct 16, 2010)

I am a new arrival at Kindleboards.  I've enjoyed reading this thread.  I'm as uncertain about pricing as I was before I started reading it.  But I feel better knowing I'm not alone.

My modest experiments with prices have only affected sales at the margins--and I haven't been able to unscramble the impact of the cost from other events:  reviews, word of mouth, running some google ads, press release.

At this point, I've settled on $2.99.  Several commenters have indicated that they may buy on impulse at .99, but would more likely sample first for anything $2.99 and up.  I prefer to have readers sample first.  I think it is better for them and for me if they read a sample.  Since my novel is 560 pages, the Kindle sample is pretty long, so readers really know what they're getting into.  I'd rather have people buy after being caught up in the story.  I also like the idea that if readers aren't hooked by the sample, they won't waste their money.

I'd be really happy if Amazon provided us with information about the number of samples pulled down.  I have noticed that when I do a heavy promotion, there is a lag between the promotion and when the sales occur.  So I assume that is because the promotion stimulated a lot of sampling, but the actual purchasing was time shifted.  But it would help me assess my promotions if I could see how many people pulled a sample during the promotion.

In fact, Amazon must be in possession of quite a lot of helpful statistical information about this whole pricing question.  It would be great if they found a way to share any wisdom found in those statistics with all of us.  No doubt the day will come.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Honestly, I am AMAZED at the fact that Amazon doesn't tell you dates and numbers of people sampling.  That would seriously helpful, I would think.


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## Chris Hallbeck (Sep 25, 2010)

DavidGreene said:


> In fact, Amazon must be in possession of quite a lot of helpful statistical information about this whole pricing question. It would be great if they found a way to share any wisdom found in those statistics with all of us. No doubt the day will come.


I wonder if publishers have the option of purchasing this kind of data.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Chris Hallbeck said:


> I wonder if publishers have the option of purchasing this kind of data.


Hahah . . . of course they do and at a pricey price! It's been going on for years! In spite of all they've done for Indies, Amazon still subtley discriminates against them. Why? Cuz publishers are very sensitive about losing their privileged status and squeel like stuck pigs at every inkling of an erosion of their special status. And Amazon is complicit in this because they make a ton of $ from the biggies selling them special services, including promotions, which indies couldn't/wouldn't buy.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Honestly, I am AMAZED at the fact that Amazon doesn't tell you dates and numbers of people sampling. That would seriously helpful, I would think.


The reason they don't is because pubs don't want them to give you this info (and lots of other stats they have readily available), and Amazon doesn't want to compromise their chummy relationship with pubs (remember I was a pub myself for a long time--I know this first hand), which grosses them big $$$ charging pubs for this info. Indies purchases of these services at the going rate would be impossible and even if millions signed up for it, could not remotely replace the lost revenue from pubs.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Reader here. I hope this isn't off topic too much but I realized today that the less I pay for a book the more likely it is to be at the bottom of my TBR list. I think I feel less guilty for letting them languish there a bit. I have

_(Bless LKRigel for teaching me how to post a link!)_

on my Kindle right now and I am feeling this onus to read this since it is my most expensive ebook.

Maybe that is a discussion of value, after all.


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## Chris Hallbeck (Sep 25, 2010)

Yeah you want to read the expensive ones first because if they drop the price before you started reading you'll have to make a fist and shake it at the little black and white screen smiling back at you.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

unknown2cherubim -- that's so cool to see you use that!

I know what you mean. I have The Iron Duke on my Kindle right now, and maybe it was the 9.99 price that made me start in on it.

And yes, I won't be surprised to see it at a lower price eventually, sigh...


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## iamstoryteller (Jul 16, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Reader here. I hope this isn't off topic too much but I realized today that the less I pay for a book the more likely it is to be at the bottom of my TBR list. I think I feel less guilty for letting them languish there a bit... I am feeling this onus to read this (higher priced book) since it is my most expensive ebook.
> 
> Maybe that is a discussion of value, after all.


_Very _ valuable information, Unknown, thanks for sharing that.



Margaret Jean said:


> Hahah . . . of course they do and at a pricey price! It's been going on for years! In spite of all they've done for Indies, Amazon still subtley discriminates against them. Why? Cuz publishers are very sensitive about losing their privileged status and squeel like stuck pigs at every inkling of an erosion of their special status. And Amazon is complicit in this because they make a ton of $ from the biggies selling them special services, including promotions, which indies couldn't/wouldn't buy.


Margaret Jean, thank you for *all * your posts. They are very much appreciated. We indies could never afford to buy the information you are sharing.


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## bobavey (Sep 14, 2010)

An interesting thread to say the least (price).


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

iamstoryteller said:


> _Very _ valuable information, Unknown, thanks for sharing that.


And of course, also keep in mind that's just one person's data point, though the viewpoint may be shared by others. There are also those like me, who once they get a book on their Kindle, pretty much forget how much it cost. I don't sort books based on price (or freebies or similar), nor do I particularly read them in any order based on price. I'd guess my viewpoint is also shared by others.

So for everything you (any 'you', not just *you* you ) read about price and when it gets read and how its sorted on a TBR list, just remember that some will agree and others will do things differently. It really is a crapshoot, I'd have to think.


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## skeeterman10 (Feb 26, 2009)

ok long time early adapter of kindle here. (still wont give up my kindle 1) I dont have a lot of time to shop around and sort through sites. At .99 if it looks interesting I buy. at 2.99 I sample. I check out this site's free and bargin threads and get emails from two others sites for bargin books. My reading habits have changed since the kindle,I now have branched out into many genres that I would have have walked by in stores. this is based on price only. If I enjoy the book or sample I add that author to my liked list and will continue to buy thier work no matter the price. So A big thank-you to to indie writers who have forced me into 7 pages of purchased, but unread books currently on my kindle.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> The reason they don't is because pubs don't want them to give you this info (and lots of other stats they have readily available), and Amazon doesn't want to compromise their chummy relationship with pubs (remember I was a pub myself for a long time--I know this first hand), which grosses them big $$$ charging pubs for this info. Indies purchases of these services at the going rate would be impossible and even if millions signed up for it, could not remotely replace the lost revenue from pubs.


Margaret Jean, I like your attitude and enjoy your posts.

Thanks for sharing.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Very interesting, everyone. Again, Margaret Jean, thank you for your wisdom.

As far as the $0.99 books ending up at the bottom of the TBR pile for some folks, that's valuable feedback for us authors. As a reader, I tend to be pretty eclectic and read whatever suits my fancy at the time--for instance right now, I'm reading _The Hunger Games_, _Pillars of the Earth_, and re-reading _Fevre Dream_, one of which I bought for less than a dollar at a used bookstore and started reading immediately because I was in the mood for that kind of book that particular day.

As a reader, I wouldn't buy a $0.99 book unless I'd read a sample first, but that's me. I just hope that whoever has bought or will buy my book enjoys it when he or she (I'm thinking mostly shes at this point) does read it. Since my book's a tad off beat and doesn't fit well in a particular genre, I've used this publishing process as market research to see who my audience is. I've been rather surprised by some of the responses I've gotten from readers--one woman enjoyed the book and then gave it to her daughters, one of whom is eleven, to read. I've always considered it an adult book so that one really surprised me.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Steph H said:


> There are also those like me, who once they get a book on their Kindle, pretty much forget how much it cost. I don't sort books based on price (or freebies or similar), nor do I particularly read them in any order based on price. I'd guess my viewpoint is also shared by others.


Me - I don't remember what I paid for a book, necessarily. I do remember freebies, but only because a lot of times they're outside my usual genre. Much like PurplePen, though, once it's in my library, I read it by what sounds interesting based on the mood I'm in. If I've been reading a lot of urban fantasy, I might pick up a thriller or a romance. Just depends. But after I've made the initial purchase, price is no longer a factor.



skeeterman10 said:


> At .99 if it looks interesting I buy. at 2.99 I sample. I check out this site's free and bargin threads and get emails from two others sites for bargin books. My reading habits have changed since the kindle,I now have branched out into many genres that I would have have walked by in stores. this is based on price only. If I enjoy the book or sample I add that author to my liked list and will continue to buy thier work no matter the price.


Pretty much this. I'll also say that I don't specifically look for .99 cent books. I look for a book that interests me and click over to the Amazon page and read the blurb and take a quick look at the reviews (usually skim those, sometimes just look at the overall rating). Depending on how interesting the blurb looks, I may not even look at the reviews. Regardless, I decide whether or not I want to try the author and THEN I look at the price, and decide whether to read or sample.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

"As a reader, I wouldn't buy a $0.99 book unless I'd read a sample first, but that's me."

This is my feeling too. A dollar is a dollar. And reading a sample in no way wastes my time if I end up buying the book. It's just reading something I'd read anyway. 

Pressing the button to get the free sample takes no more time or effort than pressing the buy button, and samples serve as good reminders of books that look interesting. I don't get the whole impulse buy thing even at $0.99.


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

Judging a book by it's cover....price is bigoted. There are many .99 and 2.99 books just as good as any established author whose book is at 9.99 and up. I will not sort my books based on price. I will read what I am in the mood for. Right now I have many indie authors books at the *TOP* of my TBR pile that are priced at .99-2.99. Authors please don't start changing your prices based on a few people putting books at the bottom of their TBR based on price. Higher price does not denote higher quality. .99 book can be just as good as any other book out there and I think basing your TBR on price is doing a disservice to the author.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I do realize that at 99 cents there will be some people who snatch it up and don't read it.  I guess I figure there will be a percentage of people who do this anyway, no matter what price I put on it.  Does that percentage go up at 99 cents?  Probably.

BUT - here's the thing.  There's GOT to be a percentage of these people actually reading my book.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be getting reviews, and I wouldn't be getting fans on my facebook page, or nice emails asking when my next book is coming out.

So I know there are people buying and not reading.  But I do know that some are reading.  And if someone talks about my book, they might remember they have it on their kindle, and bump it up in their TBR pile.

For me, the 99 cent price has worked.  I'm selling well over the 6x I needed to in order to make it worth it.  I'm about 12x the sales right now.  And I feel like it's giving me a shot.  Of course, everyone is different.  What works for one won't work for another.  That's probably why we're all throwing stuff around to see what sticks.

Vicki


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Victorine said:


> For me, the 99 cent price has worked. I'm selling well over the 6x I needed to in order to make it worth it. I'm about 12x the sales right now. And I feel like it's giving me a shot. Of course, everyone is different. What works for one won't work for another. That's probably why we're all throwing stuff around to see what sticks.


See, I have to admit that I find it highly unlikely that your 12x increase in sales is solely due to price. How long have you had your price at $0.99? You're comparing your sales numbers at $2.99 from some weeks ago to your sales numbers at $0.99 *now*. If you raised your price to $2.99 today, I doubt that your sales totals would drop back to the same pre-$0.99 level you saw before. Time has passed. Your book has had the opportunity to get its legs. Word has spread.

Who's to say that if your price was $2.99 today, you wouldn't still sell half as many books as you're currently selling? Which would, of course, make it worthwhile to sell at the higher price.

In my opinion, too much time has passed for you to say with confidence that you're selling twelve times as many books at $0.99 than you would at $2.99. Too many other variables have changed. The _really_ interesting test would be to bump your price back up to $2.99 and see what happens. If all of a sudden you're selling 1/12th the number of books you are currently, that would be meaningful. As it stands now, I can't help but wonder if you're losing money and don't even realize it, because you're comparing apples with oranges.

For what it's worth...


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

THANK YOU, STORYTELLER, for the kind words. I put your book on my wishlist and will review it. I see you haven't sold many copies since the 7-2010 pub date. That means one thing: you're wasting time doing other things (Like Kindleboarding) that don't result in sales. Come here for info (which is *not* always reliable) but not to market your book. The Amazon forums are far more effective, but you have to be subtle. Also use email, local press releases, get it out on POD (maybe CreateSpace), cuz fact is most people want to buy a physical book. Join local writers' groups, offer to speak at appropriate venues. Get out there, yourself, and make yourself known as an neat, interesting person and writer. Send review copies of a PHYSICAL book to review media. You can do it.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Margaret Jean,

I've actually found KB to be a great place for information and sales. It's certainly easy to spend too much time here, but it's been wonderful for me. It's just a piece of the puzzle, but for me, it's been invaluable.


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## Margaret Jean (Aug 31, 2010)

Monique said:


> Margaret Jean,
> 
> I've actually found KB to be a great place for information and sales. It's certainly easy to spend too much time here, but it's been wonderful for me. It's just a piece of the puzzle, but for me, it's been invaluable.


When I look for reliable information, I examine the professional credentials, background and reputation of the source. Call me picky, but it's served me very well and gotten me very far. Up to you. Kindleboards is a fine place for indies to find encouragement and feedback (something very important to new authors), but it is mis-leading and potentially damaging to a writer's career if he/she uses solely what is uttered here to make financial and marketing decisions about their intellectual properties.
Nearly everyone in the Book Bazaar and Writer's Cafe is a newbie, has only anecdotal/personal/partial/and incomplete information about anything in the publishing process. Everything in the marketplace is stacked against the indie kindle author, including his/her amateur status as an author/publisher and the fatal designation of having "self-published." And a curious aspect of the advice offered as "truth" here--and anywhere--is that the loudest, most insistent voices on every subject are issued from individuals who are least qualified to be mentors to new self-publishers. I'm gonna start charging for this. I'm wasting my time. I want all of you to succeed, few of you get it or even want to hear it.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Uhm, okay.


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Monique said:


> Uhm, okay.


LMAO! You took the words right outta my mouth.


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

flanneryohello said:


> LMAO! You took the words right outta my mouth.


_I_ was going to say that!


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> When I look for reliable information, I examine the professional credentials, background and reputation of the source. Call me picky, but it's served me very well and gotten me very far. Up to you. Kindleboards is a fine place for indies to find encouragement and feedback (something very important to new authors), but it is mis-leading and potentially damaging to a writer's career if he/she uses solely what is uttered here to make financial and marketing decisions about their intellectual properties.
> Nearly everyone in the Book Bazaar and Writer's Cafe is a newbie, has only anecdotal/personal/partial/and incomplete information about anything in the publishing process. Everything in the marketplace is stacked against the indie kindle author, including his/her amateur status as an author/publisher and the fatal designation of having "self-published." And a curious aspect of the advice offered as "truth" here--and anywhere--is that the loudest, most insistent voices on every subject are issued from individuals who are least qualified to be mentors to new self-publishers. I'm gonna start charging for this. I'm wasting my time. I want all of you to succeed, few of you get it or even want to hear it.


Wow--that's a pretty all encompassing statement. And you make a lot of assumptions. Time will tell is all I have to say.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

flanneryohello said:


> See, I have to admit that I find it highly unlikely that your 12x increase in sales is solely due to price. How long have you had your price at $0.99? You're comparing your sales numbers at $2.99 from some weeks ago to your sales numbers at $0.99 *now*. If you raised your price to $2.99 today, I doubt that your sales totals would drop back to the same pre-$0.99 level you saw before. Time has passed. Your book has had the opportunity to get its legs. Word has spread.
> 
> Who's to say that if your price was $2.99 today, you wouldn't still sell half as many books as you're currently selling? Which would, of course, make it worthwhile to sell at the higher price.
> 
> ...


I know what you're saying. And I do agree, there are variables that can't totally be ruled out. This isn't a controlled experiment. But the reason I changed my price to 99 cents is because I went two months with an average of 3 sales a day. September should have put me above that mark, because I was featured on Daily Cheap Reads and also on Kindle Nation Daily. Believe me, those days were great for sales. 18 sales on my Daily Cheap Reads day, and 28 sales on my KND day. But they went down after that. 27 sales the day after KND, then 12... and then 6. And everyone else had said that KND gave them a great bump in sales, but it went back down after the bump. (And those people who reported it NOT going back down were all priced at 99 cents.)

So, I was *hoping* that KND would give me a big enough bump to get me going at a better than 3 a day rate. When I didn't sell a single book in 12 hours... I just gave up. I wanted to try the 99 cent price and see where it would get me.

Here's how it went, if you're curious:

Sept 18 - 1 sale (priced at $2.99)
Sept 19 - 3 sales
Sept 20 - 1 sale
Sept 21 - 6 sales
Sept 22 - 3 sales
Sept 23 - 28 sales (The day KND came out)
Sept 24 - 27 sales 
Sept 25 - 12 sales
Sept 26 - 6 sales (and then 12 hours with no sales)
Sept 27 - changed to 99 cents... sold 49
Sept 28 - 67 sold
Sept 29 - 40 sold
Sept 30 - 65 sold

And you're right, I can't be sure that I'm not losing money. But I'm pretty sure I'm selling a lot more books. And right now, that's what is important to me. I'm getting my name out there. If I sell enough books, I might get noticed. I wouldn't mind getting into Amazon Encore. That would be a sweet deal. I'm not going to do that selling 3 books a day.

I'm just looking at those indies who are really making it. DB Henson and Amanda Hocking... and their 99 cent priced books. I think price *does* matter.

But like I said, I can't rule out every variable. But I know I busted my butt trying to sell big at $2.99 and couldn't do it. So I caved. And now I'm pretty happy with how things are going.

Vicki


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> Up to you. Kindleboards is a fine place for indies to find encouragement and feedback (something very important to new authors), but it is mis-leading and potentially damaging to a writer's career if he/she uses solely what is uttered here to make financial and marketing decisions about their intellectual properties.


Would it be bad to get advice from nowhere else but from the Kindleboards for this? Possibly. But the quote you're responding referred to the Kindleboards as a piece of the puzzle. A piece. You know puzzles have multiple pieces, right? You know, unless you're still in Kindergarten. And by the way, the vast bulk of the _successful_ indies actually do hang out here. You know, Konrath, Amanda Hocking, BV Larson...people who have sold thousands of e-books. This market is fairly new. It helps to be around those who are successful at it. And frankly, even your 99 cent book is currently sitting at the 60k mark in ranking. Perhaps it is you who needs to stop making assumptions and do some listening and learning.



> Nearly everyone in the Book Bazaar and Writer's Cafe is a newbie, has only anecdotal/personal/partial/and incomplete information about anything in the publishing process.


Do you seriously think you are the only author with a professional publishing background to come here and turn indie, or even 'semi-indie'? Daniel Arenson, Joe Konrath, Lee Goldberg, Flanneryohello, would you please step forward? Heck, that's just the people I know off the top of my head. I know there's many more. And let's not forget the people who frequent here who have been accepted to the Amazon Encore program, or people like Boyd Morrison (another Kindleboarder!) We also have many more who while not professional published, have worked within the business, reading slushpiles, slaving away in marketing, or working as editors.



> Everything in the marketplace is stacked against the indie kindle author, including his/her amateur status as an author/publisher and the fatal designation of having "self-published." And a curious aspect of the advice offered as "truth" here--and anywhere--is that the loudest, most insistent voices on every subject are issued from individuals who are least qualified to be mentors to new self-publishers.


I'm going to be very clear here: your e-books are selling worse than many, many people here. Why the heck do you think you are the one most qualified to tell people what would be best for their new careers? I'll listen to Joe. I'll listen to Amanda. I'll even listen to people who may not have the greatest of sales but clearly have a passion for writing and still can offer surprising insights. But I don't see any reason to listen to you, not with such raging ego problems.



> I'm gonna start charging for this. I'm wasting my time. I want all of you to succeed, few of you get it or even want to hear it.


There is only one correct response to this: WTF? Do we need a recap to what exactly you are responding to?



Monique said:


> Margaret Jean,
> 
> I've actually found KB to be a great place for information and sales. It's certainly easy to spend too much time here, but it's been wonderful for me. It's just a piece of the puzzle, but for me, it's been invaluable.


Someone simply said: I love the Kindleboards, and it has been helpful to me. You've responded with the above I've quoted. Dear lord.

David Dalglish


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

Not to mention (but I will) that Monique said this is a place for information AND SALES, to refute the statement that authors were wasting time coming here for sales and should be going to Amazon boards instead.  There are authors here who rarely participate on the Amazon forums, and there are plenty of threads here as to why. And yet...they manage to have plenty of sales.  David Half-Orc can attest to that, among others.


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## Sandra Edwards (May 10, 2010)

I'd just like to say that if David Dalglish said he was running for President...I'd vote for him


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you, David, for writing so eloquently--exactly what I've been thinking. 

I've been fortunate to meet, study with, and even become friends with many truly successful traditionally published New York Times best-selling writers, editors and top agents, and none of them (okay, maybe a few) have come off with such arrogance.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

Sandra Edwards said:


> I'd just like to say that if David Dalglish said he was running for President...I'd vote for him


Me, too


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Sandra Edwards said:


> I'd just like to say that if David Dalglish said he was running for President...I'd vote for him


I wouldn't.

He wouldn't get time to write.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

<Betsy sticks head in door and looks around to make sure everyone is behaving well and no knife fights break out.>


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Now _that's_ a scary hat!

Yikes! (we'll be good...)


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## Chris Hallbeck (Sep 25, 2010)

David, that was very well written. You should quit that Pizza Hut gig and try becoming a full time writer instead.





oh wait...


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

A couple of months ago, I wrote a post directed toward a certain author. I think it necessary to repeat it here toward a newbie.

You've come across as a very argumentative, somewhat know-it-all person who seems like you have to talk down to people who have busted their a**es doing what they do, as if they have no right to tread on sacred ground.

Let's put on our big boy britches here. You've turned quite a few people -- including me -- off your books due to your rubbish personality. I'm not saying that you have to kiss hiney while you're here. A little more tact is needed, and I can assure you that it is recommended by quite a few people. We are not only authors, but we are also _readers_, first and foremost. I've made quite a few friends here, I've read their books and I also recommend their books to not only my friends and readers, but also to people I meet in a Starbucks, in a bookstore, or at meet and greets for my own books. I recommend David, Daniel and Shawn Cormier's books to fantasy fans, and Steven Savile and David McAfee's to those who like a little something different. I recommend Ed's books to other friends. Mary McDonald, Beth Orsoff, Vicki Lieske, Heather Mathews, Imogen Rose, Amanda Hocking, etc... I hand sell more of my friends' books than I do my own. You can sell yourself better with sugar and honey rather than with vinegar. Right now, you're giving yourself a bad reputation. Dial the venom back a few notches, lose the "I've been traditionally published and I've ghostwritten for several bestsellers and you are all rat excrement" attitude, and maybe -- just maybe -- one of us will recommend your books to our readers. Right now, why would I even bother mentioning you to others other than to steer as far away from your tripe as they can?

Have a nice Friday.


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## destill (Oct 5, 2010)

I take offense to the statement that all the writers on this board are newbies who don't have a clue what they're doing. Why would anyone make such generalizations?

Two of my family members are traditionally published authors. One wrote a novel that has been turned into a movie that won top awards at Sundance this year. I compare notes with these two authors, all the time. And believe me, there is no magic or right way to sell books. Awards don't necessarily help sales. (My last book was a _ForeWord_ Book of the Year Finalist and an International Book Awards Winner, Humor category.) Sometimes reviews do little to bump sales. Word of mouth is the ticket, as we all know. But readers have to FIND us before that can happen, not just readers, but readers who are socially connected with other readers and who love talking about good books. Bloggers are booksellers' best friends! Book promoters are SOMETIMES our biggest predators.

Now, I'm not saying that traditional forms of publicity don't work. I'm suggesting, rather, that everyone's target audience might not be easily reached through mass market means. And for some of us, big campaign budgets aren't possible. Have you ever been to BookExpo America and read the back covers on some of the free galleys offered there? I have. (For the record, I've also exhibited at this trade show.) It's not uncommon to read back cover statements like "$500,000 media campaign" and "100,000 first printing." Indie authors-at least, ones I know-can't initiate these kinds of book launches.

Yes, working as a professional speaker can help stimulate sales. But unless your book lends itself to general business audiences, other than libraries and book clubs, you might find few opportunities to speak. If you live in a rural area, you'll have to travel to find these gigs. And while you're running all over the place, willy-nilly, you won't be doing the one thing you truly love-and that's writing. I know because I've been a public speaker too. Never have I sold to more than 25% of the audience. I've checked with other author/speakers, and that's considered a good return. Speak to a group of 50 and you'll be lucky to move 10 books.

Book signings? Yes, I've done those too (Barnes & Noble, Borders, Books-a-Million, etc.). My experience is anywhere from 4 to 32 books sold at any one event. The average book signing moves 4 books, according to what I've read. The free publicity a signing generates is great. And it's always nice to meet your readers. But this isn't going to put anyone on the bestseller list-unless he or she is moving cross-country in a motor home and doing 3+ signings a day.

TV appearances? Go for them, if you can land some close to home. Most of the time, your publicist will succeed in getting you on a morning TV program somewhere on the other side of the country from where you live. And guess who pays your expenses to get there? YOU. Unless, of course, you are one of the lucky ones to nab a slot on _Today_ or _Good Morning America _ or _The Oprah Show_. I've not been that fortunate. Few are.

What I've done is experiment with all types of marketing, and I can tell you that the best use of anyone's time, energies, and money is to do online marketing and advertising. Even the big publishers have figured this out. Kindleboards is as good a place as any to network and/or advertise. So don't be deterred by dissenting opinions. Keep experimenting until you find what works for YOU and YOUR book/books. Don't follow the herd over the cliff.

And IF you happen to be a newbie, just remember that EVERYONE started off as one. The point of this thread is to help and encourage each other.


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## Daniel W. Koch (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't always comment on these threads but I can tell you I read them every day.  I have learned soooo much from the experiences of all the other authors on this sight that I feel I should say THANK YOU for being so honest and sharing your stories.
As a "newbie" and a youngster, I didn't stand a chance in the traditional world.  My book is out there and I'm getting emails from kids who are reading it and I can't tell you how happy that makes me.
But more importantly what I've learned here on KB has not only increased my sales, but saved me time in mistakes, which I have learned from the mistakes of others here. And also the successes, which you are all so generous in reporting.
After reading the last few posts, I felt the need to say this....now I'm late for class....but will be back later!


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## Debra L Martin (Apr 8, 2010)

Well said Diana.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Margaret Jean said:


> When I look for reliable information, I examine the professional credentials, background and reputation of the source. Call me picky, but it's served me very well and gotten me very far. Up to you. Kindleboards is a fine place for indies to find encouragement and feedback (something very important to new authors), but it is mis-leading and potentially damaging to a writer's career if he/she uses solely what is uttered here to make financial and marketing decisions about their intellectual properties.
> Nearly everyone in the Book Bazaar and Writer's Cafe is a newbie, has only anecdotal/personal/partial/and incomplete information about anything in the publishing process. Everything in the marketplace is stacked against the indie kindle author, including his/her amateur status as an author/publisher and the fatal designation of having "self-published." And a curious aspect of the advice offered as "truth" here--and anywhere--is that the loudest, most insistent voices on every subject are issued from individuals who are least qualified to be mentors to new self-publishers. I'm gonna start charging for this. I'm wasting my time. I want all of you to succeed, few of you get it or even want to hear it.


Margaret Jean, I was enjoyed your posts that gave us a bit of insight into the publishing world we never see, and I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. I'm hoping this particular post caught you at a bad moment - a crying child or a misbehaving pet - and you'll return to your usual informative and non-judgemental posting style.


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

Interesting tangent we've veered onto. Also interesting is how we project our version of reality onto the world, and it becomes precisely what we think of it, on a person-by-person basis. For example, in gleaning the posts I couldn't help but notice the remarks about KB not being a place to make any sales, more a place to pick up information, but even then most of it isn't reliable, so don't count on it. In all that talk, nothing was mentioned about the possibility of making new friends.

So there it is, for one person, and their version of reality becomes completely true, for them -- they're not going to make any sales talking like that, maybe pick up some information that's wrong, and worst of all, with no value placed on making new friends, they certainly aren't making any.

Me, I like to think I've achieved all three, and I have. I've sold books here, what is that rubbish? Okay, some information wanders here and there, but most is great stuff, at least it gets you thinking, then investigate more on your own. Certainly, nothing here is gospel, and I like to imagine we all are fully aware of that. I've learned many things, and shared as well. Lastly, and most importantly (for me anyway), is the friends I've made on this board exceed all I've ever had in this life. I have the biggest circle of friends ever, thanks to this online experience. I hope others feel the same about me. I'd hate for myself to be viewed as anyone so high and mighty. Yuck. (if I ever act like that, just kick me in the head a few times).

For me, I feel that's the best part. Even if I don't learn the secrets of this venture and sell gobs of books, just think of all the new friends I've made. That alone is a golden reward in the version of reality I want to project onto the world.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Sandra Edwards said:


> I'd just like to say that if David Dalglish said he was running for President...I'd vote for him


Yes, me too!  I don't think he's old enough though.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

John Fitch V said:


> A couple of months ago, I wrote a post directed toward a certain author. I think it necessary to repeat it here toward a newbie.
> 
> You've come across as a very argumentative, somewhat know-it-all person who seems like you have to talk down to people who have busted their a**es doing what they do, as if they have no right to tread on sacred ground.
> 
> ...


Are you going to run on the same ticket as David? 

ETA: Seriously though, I agree with both David and Sean. There are quite a few established traditional authors on these boards, and then there are authors like me. I'm completely new to this game. My day job has nothing to do with writing whatsoever. If you're having trouble breathing--I'm the one to come to. That's what I do in my day job. I write because I love it, and I work my tush off to try and sell it. Not for the money so much. Heck, if I can pick up an extra shift a month and make more than I make selling my book, but it's because I want readers.

Your suggestions are all good ones, as far as joining writers groups, being a guest speaker, etc, but some of it isn't as relevant for authors of ebooks only. At least, not yet. In a year or two, it might be. Right now, I could go speak to a packed room about my book, but if only ten of them have an ereader, it's not going to do a lot of good. Yes, it will get my name out there, but if a person doesn't have an ereader, it makes no difference. I've thought about doing a DTB version and I still might, but from what I've seen, there's not much money to be made from it, and just as much work. It might be nice for friends and family, but in my family, several people do have ereaders and a few more are planning to get one soon, so not really necessary for me.

Which brings me back to Kindleboards. This site has thousands of hits a day. It's is targeted marketing as just about everyone who visits has the device needed to read/buy an ebook. Why would I want to spend time and gas driving an hour to the nearest Barnes and Noble (my book is in their store) to talk and maybe have a dozen people listen to me, when I can be on this board, in a relaxed setting, and possibly reach thousands?

Plus, the people on Kindleboards aren't *just* potential buyers of our books, they are funny, they have great opinions on books, talk about things other than books, and give feedback on Kindle related products, which I find useful. What's not to love?

I may not have a lot of experience, but I've learned a ton from other people on this board--even if they are "newbies". My book is not a bestseller, but it's doing okay.


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## flanneryohello (May 11, 2010)

Add me to the list of people who don't understand walking into a "room" in the middle of a conversation only to tell everyone there that they're ignorant and wasting their time by hanging out together. Oh, and that they're all uninformed newbies who should be listening to the know-all voice of experience.

Margaret Jean, I'm pretty sure your first post was made only a week or so ago, so I don't think you have a very well-rounded idea of what KB is all about, nor what it can do for you. You may not even realize yet that there are a number of successful indie authors who frequent the boards and offer up the benefit of their wisdom and experience on a regular basis. Some of those people have a traditional publishing background. Some don't. Some have been writing and/or publishing for years, others are relatively new to this arena. There is no boilerplate formula to succeeding in digital self-publishing. Everyone here is a pioneer in a brave new world, trying to navigate it with the support of others on the same journey.

I have a traditional publishing background, with four (soon-to-be five) published novels and numerous published short stories. I am not a newbie author. However, the concept of self-publishing ebooks _is_ new to me, and I would never presume that my experience in traditional publishing or my relationships with editors, marketing folks, and other professionals at more than one traditional publisher makes me more savvy about what it takes to succeed in indie publishing than any of the people here who have _actually done it_. My experience in the traditional world has taught me how to write good books, how to self-edit, how to work effectively with professional editors, and how to develop a thick skin. But traditional publishing is _not_ indie publishing, and selling DTBs is completely different than peddling ebooks. Indie authors are working with a miniscule budget compared to someone attached to a traditional publisher. The same things won't work.

Do you feel that KB doesn't lead to sales because _you_ haven't sold any books here? The thing about participating on a forum as an author is that your work is rarely judged in a vacuum that doesn't also include reactions to your behavior. From the beginning the tone has been condescending and know-it-all. No, that won't lead to sales. But there are many authors who do sell books through KB. Obviously the successful authors make KB only one piece of a much larger puzzle, but this forum gets impressive traffic and is much more welcoming to self-published authors than the Amazon forums you espouse.

Denigrating and dismissing the people who hang out at KB is a bizarre move, in my opinion. Within this community are some of the more successful indie authors out there. This is a good place to form relationships--and a bad place to make enemies. If the way you've conducted yourself on these boards is indicative of your own personal marketing and selling strategies, you'd better believe that I'd listen to a "newbie" indie author's advice and perspective before I'd put much weight into yours.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Has the dust(-up) settled?  No? Oh well.  Reader here again.

I think the KB Boards are a marketing tool, one of the best kinds -- word-of-mouth/hand-selling.  I was a big fan of Dennis Lehane before I was lucky enough to spend some time with him but now I buy and read and enthusiastically recommend all his books.  Here I get to "know" authors and see how they think and appreciate what informs their writing.  I'm much more likely to pick one of their books if the plot/genre interests me.

As well, reading here at KB gives me all sorts of recommendations by the other buyers/readers who have tastes (dark, mysterious, complex, full of moral shades of gray) similar to mine.  That reverberates since I also read heavily and recommend books all the time myself. As I get to know more ebook-reader owners there will be even more of a ripple effect. 

Finally, having exposure to the talents here at the KB has given me a new programming idea.  I'm looking at how to integrate indie ebooks into my libraries and thinking about having indie authors come and speak.  As many bricks-and-mortar booksellers will tell you libraries and bookstores enhance each other.

And this is just from one reader's side of things.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

This is a great place to hang out--I've never been on such a lively, fun discussion board for books, and I love books--both reading them and writing them.  

What I use for my marketing plan are my instincts as a reader.  Why do I buy books?  What kinds of things appeal to me about books and authors?  What kinds of things turn me off?  This plan may include a lot of trial and error and I may not sell a lot of books, especially at first, but I'm doing what I can when I can.  The advice from more experienced indie folks on these boards has been invaluable in honing this plan, and I've seen my sales jump just from being a member here.  In my mind, at least I'm selling books and getting my name out there, which is a lot better than getting rejection letters. 

Ultimately, the best marketing plan from the most experienced person in the world may sell books, but it can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.  As a reader and a writer, I'd rather have the silk purse at the end of the day, and I'll rely on my best judgment, inexperienced as it is, to determine the difference between the two.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

swolf said:


> Margaret Jean, I was enjoyed your posts that gave us a bit of insight into the publishing world we never see, and I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. I'm hoping this particular post caught you at a bad moment - a crying child or a misbehaving pet - and you'll return to your usual informative and non-judgemental posting style.


Yes, I hope that a small case of foot-in-mouth disease does not drive Margaret away.

The thing to remember for all of us, is that we don't know the real experience level of the people we're talking to. We tend to make assumptions based on our prejudices, but we have to be careful about that. There are not only a lot of published writers here, there are also people who have worked in the industry - which is less obvious from your list of books on Amazon. There are people who have a lot of experience in related industries and marketing.

Yes, there are people here who hold an opinion because they don't know any better, but all these different opinions are also held by people who deeply considered the facts and simply rejected the common wisdom. And this is true of the opinions I very much disagree with.

The biggest problem with this group (in terms of who we listen to and who we don't) is that we do tend to reject traditional publishing ideas a bit more than we should - mainly because we're all familiar with them and the situation is changing and traditional publishers have clearly dropped the ball. The paradigm for indie publishing is very different, and the mindset must be too....

But that doesn't mean we can't learn something from hundreds of years of experience.

Camille


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Has the dust(-up) settled? No? Oh well. Reader here again.
> 
> I think the KB Boards are a marketing tool, one of the best kinds -- word-of-mouth/hand-selling. I was a big fan of Dennis Lehane before I was lucky enough to spend some time with him but now I buy and read and enthusiastically recommend all his books. Here I get to "know" authors and see how they think and appreciate what informs their writing. I'm much more likely to pick one of their books if the plot/genre interests me.
> 
> ...


I love Lehane's books. I thought his book, *Shutter Island* was so much better than the movie. How great that you got to meet him. 
I'd love to hear more about that!


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## iamstoryteller (Jul 16, 2010)

My goodness, go away for a while and looks what happens!

I think this tempest may all have begun because of a post Margaret Jean addressed at me. Last evening I read that post and decided I would address it after I completed some blogging. Didn't get back to it until now, and I'm glad of that.

Yes, I am glad this brouhaha took place, because some very thoughtful comments came out of it, and this is what I am coming to the boards for... to read the comments and amazingly generous sharing of ideas and empirical experiences from other indie authors and readers. Methinks one could not buy this information for any price. What is so great about it is that one can view several different points of view and experiences, and just like Wikipedia and googled information, come to a conclusion themselves.

I have been a successful businessperson pretty much my entire adult life, I've had accolades and awards thrown at me, I've had many folks tell me they admire me. I've been the chairperson (president) of an organization of more than 3000 members and had to control raucus meetings and generally make sure things ran smoothly. I've run for the board at a golf and country club and been one of only a few women elected, and was told that my speech won the day.

I'm a late bloomer to writing but it's now in my blood. I can't not write, even if it's just blogging as is now the case. Maybe that would explain how with all the above experience I find promoting and marketing my book such an arduous undertaking. At the same time being indie suits me because it's a brave new world out there and I get to choose if I wish to join it. It doesn't discriminate over age or race or experience. I am in awe of the youngsters on these boards who are determined to live their dreams. I'm in awe of the older folk and everyone in between who are using their God-given skills as they were meant.

I am just getting my feet wet with this bewildering thing called Internet marketing that flies along as fast as the stars and can take you there too.

I hope everyone will continue to share on here, I find every comment valuable. And it is indeed a wonderful world of community model. Thank you one and _all_.


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

iamstoryteller said:


> I can't not write


Ah, so you're a junkie like the rest of us.

(SMILE)

Welcome aboard the good ship Kindleboards. I look forward to your insights from the perspective of a business executive. That's valuable experience to mix into the blend as well.


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## iamstoryteller (Jul 16, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> Ah, so you're a junkie like the rest of us.
> 
> (SMILE)
> 
> Welcome aboard the good ship Kindleboards. I look forward to your insights from the perspective of a business executive. That's valuable experience to mix into the blend as well.


Thanks William. Glad to be aboard and know that the ship is always docked for my pleasure... and my edification. I will do what I can to contribute.


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## David Greene (Oct 16, 2010)

Earlier I wrote: "In fact, Amazon must be in possession of quite a lot of helpful statistical information about this whole pricing question. It would be great if they found a way to share any wisdom found in those statistics with all of us. No doubt the day will come."

To which Chris replied:



Chris Hallbeck said:


> I wonder if publishers have the option of purchasing this kind of data.


To which Margaret Jean replied:



Margaret Jean said:


> Hahah . . . of course they do and at a pricey price! It's been going on for years! In spite of all they've done for Indies, Amazon still subtley discriminates against them. Why? Cuz publishers are very sensitive about losing their privileged status and squeel like stuck pigs at every inkling of an erosion of their special status. And Amazon is complicit in this because they make a ton of $ from the biggies selling them special services, including promotions, which indies couldn't/wouldn't buy.


To which I say: That may be how it is today. But the industry is changing--and I expect Amazon will change as more and more revenue flows through their store on behalf of indie authors. Who knows how this may evolve. Perhaps someday we'll have an Independent Author's Union--like organized labor--that collects dues and has representatives who might go to Amazon and say--"Our members need pricing statistics. Our members want to see reports on sample downloads for their titles." And that request can come with an offer to pay for the info--or--to continue the labor analogy--a threat of strike, e.g. "Please provide, or our members will collectively unpublish next week from Kindle."

I don't know if this kind of thing is realistic. I'm just dipping into my imagination to envision how inevitable it seems that the dynamics of all this will keep changing. The authors (and readers) here at KB are in the front wave of these changes.

Rather than a union, there may come a large publisher that scoops up independent authors by offering attractive royalty terms for those who self-edit, make their own covers, self-promote, etc. Such a publisher could negotiate with retailers.

But all of these new dynamics are forming now--and the changes have just begun.


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## bvlarson (May 16, 2010)

Mark Asher said:


> That's interesting, but don't you make more money at $2.99 with one third the sales than you do at $0.99 with three times the sales? Unless you're trying to seed sales for other books with a $0.99 introductory read, it seems like you should be at $2.99.


Correct, Mark, IMO. In most cases you are going to make more money at 2.99. But getting a lot of people to read your stuff gives you a certain "reality" as an author. It's a trade-off.
-BVL


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Hmmmm.  Hired back in 2001 to write a book that is still in print today.  Had my novels represented since the mid '90s by two of the top literary agents in the business (one of whom continues to represent me to this day).  Had one novel shopped around in Hollywood by one of the top dramatic rights' agent teams in the business.

And now I find I'm a newbie whose opinions aren't worth reading, let alone any consideration.

Wow.  That certainly put me in my place.  Guess I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on.

Yeah.  Right.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

bvlarson said:


> Correct, Mark, IMO. In most cases you are going to make more money at 2.99. But getting a lot of people to read your stuff gives you a certain "reality" as an author. It's a trade-off.
> -BVL


Okay, I just changed the price of my short story collection to .99 cents as an experiment... Right now, I want readers. I'll be bringing out a novel for Christmas--probably price that at 2.99.


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

ah, the book blurb. that one's a toughie for me. I wonder how many others have issues with writing that marketing piece. yuck. i fail at every one and yet I know it's one of the big teasers for a book. I'm not a marketer; i'm a writer. One would think I'd have the skill to put together a teaser, but heck....


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## Dawn Judd (Jun 8, 2010)

Well, I'm not sure where I stand on this anymore.  I tried the $.99 thing with little success.  Raised it to $2.99 and got a lot more sales from it.  But it's been slow.  This month I dropped the price back down to $.99 to promote the release of the sequel, and I've had steady sales all month.  Maybe it's because it's better known now, or maybe I've done better advertising.  I'm not sure.  But I've tripled my sales from my best month.  Last night I decided to try the same with the sequel because it just hasn't had any sales yet, despite many people constantly asking when it is coming out.  Well, since the new price went live, I've had several sales already.  I guess if people know it's on sale and know about the book, they're going to buy it when the price drops!


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

I follow you, Dawn.  There are a lot of variables, so it's hard to say what the best strategy is.  I dropped the price on my second book to $.99 midway through last month.  At first it only seemed to create a tiny boost, but sales have risen steadily and it trickled over to my other book.  It will be interesting to see what happens when the price returns to the original $2.99.  Midway through this month and I've sold nearly as many as I did all of last month.  Historical fiction is a genre dominated by traditionally published books, so you don't see many bargain buys. 

I'm getting ready to release a third book (second in The Bruce Trilogy) next month and I'm still not sure what to do about the pricing.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

So. My 99¢ sale is over.

The reviews I've had have all been good, positive, even enthusiastic. The only complaint, such as it is, about Space Junque is that it's too short. They wish there was more.

Well, it's a novella.

I've put the price up to 1.99. For now. I'm going to price Spiderwork at 2.99 for its first month, then raise it to 3.99 and bring Space Junque up to 2.99.

In a few years, we'll have figured out what works best. I certainly don't know at the moment. I suspect we'll realize Amazon was right and that 2.99 should be the floor.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> In a few years, we'll have figured out what works best. I certainly don't know at the moment. I suspect we'll realize Amazon was right and that 2.99 should be the floor.


Yep, we are the pioneers. I'm thinking by the time we get it all figured out, everything will have changed.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

So now my thinking is, excepting sales, my standard pricing will be

novellas - 2.99
novels - opening month 2.99 then up to 3.99

but, for the moment, Space Junque is 1.99, so go figure...


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Okay, I finally caved. I just lowered on both B&N and Amazon the price for _Decisions_ to $2.99. As soon as the price changes go into effect I'll advertise the new "on sale" price and see what it does. But so far I have three Amazon and two B&N sales for the month, so there's no place to go but up at this point.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I lowered the price of my book on November 1st because I have a sequel coming out in the end of the month--hopefully--and wanted to build a bigger reader base. I was at $2.99, and lowered it to 99 cents. I had averaged almost 5 books/day at the $2.99 for the month of October (about 4/day the two previous months), however, for at least half of October, my book was put on sale by amazon at $2.39, and most of my sales were in that part of the month. Earnings wise, I'm not quite making what I did in October but it's very close. I've sold 288 books so far this month, almost double what I sold in all of October, and we aren't quite halfway through the month yet. If I keep this pace, my earnings will be about the same, but it is a big *IF*. lol. 

However, as far as my goal of building reader base, I would call it a success.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Wow.  That was fast.  B&N already as the price reduction posted.  Still waiting for Amazon.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Well, it's officially at $2.99 on both sites now. Been advertising on all my usual web haunts:

_Price Reduced! Decisions is currently on sale for the low, low price of just $2.99. Available for the Amazon Kindle, Barnes & Noble Nook, or any device capable of using the Kindle or Nook Reading Applications (Mac, PC, Android, Blackberry, and all those iThingies floating around out there)._


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## mattposner (Oct 28, 2010)

I am responding to this thread mainly so I can find it again. I want to read through all this debate to try to make up my mind. I don't like the slow trickle of 1-3 sales per week on my book. I spend a whole day marketing and get only 1 or 2 sales, and no sales if I don't do anything. My book is @3.99, should sell itself if anyone samples it, and has a very strong cover. Would lowering the price point increase sales? I don't think so, because I think the issue is getting the word out, but I'm going to read all the cogent arguments in the thread and be influenced by them.

Thanks for your eloquence, guys.

Matt


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

mattposner said:


> I am responding to this thread mainly so I can find it again. I want to read through all this debate to try to make up my mind. I don't like the slow trickle of 1-3 sales per week on my book. I spend a whole day marketing and get only 1 or 2 sales, and no sales if I don't do anything. My book is @3.99, should sell itself if anyone samples it, and has a very strong cover. Would lowering the price point increase sales? I don't think so, because I think the issue is getting the word out, but I'm going to read all the cogent arguments in the thread and be influenced by them.
> 
> Thanks for your eloquence, guys.
> 
> Matt


Matt--have you put a direct link in your siggy? I just clicked on a couple of your links, and I didn't get directly to your book. It might help your sales a bit here on the Kindleboards.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Matt--have you put a direct link in your siggy? I just clicked on a couple of your links, and I didn't get directly to your book. It might help your sales a bit here on the Kindleboards.


I'll second that. A link directly to the Kindle book is very helpful, IMHO.

Vicki


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

ack, fuggidaboudit

I'm going back to 2.99 and working on getting _Spiderwork_ out. This pricing thing is making me crazy.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

*Giggling at LK*

Just "set it and forget it" like that dude says on the infomercial.  

Seriously, don't stress over price.  You're thinking too much about what price per piece you're getting.  It doesn't matter.  What matters is finding what works to give you the best monthly income.  If that's $1.99, then go for it.  If it's $2.99, stick with that.  Don't stress too much about the per piece price.  

Vicki


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Seriously, don't stress over price. You're thinking too much about what price per piece you're getting. It doesn't matter. What matters is finding what works to give you the best monthly income. If that's $1.99, then go for it. If it's $2.99, stick with that. Don't stress too much about the per piece price.
> 
> Vicki


Bless you, Vicki. This is what I've been saying this whole thread. The money you make is NOT per book, but total. And I also agree with the "set it and forget it" bit


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Bless you Vicki and Arkali both!

I think I have a problem with Space Junque that price cannot cure.

Genre confusion.

So far, I've had great reviews. But I think most of my readers are the curious type who don't mind going outside their genre comfort zone to try something different. Several of the reviewers start out by saying something like "I really had my doubts about this _space thing_ but once I read it ..."

I honestly think the only thing I can do now to intrigue people on a larger scale is to get _Spiderwork _out there. Though the world is unique, the presentation is much more in line with traditional paranormal romance expectations. And nothing happens in space.

There is probably a reason traditional publishers don't like novels to cross genres!

Of course it might just be that Space Junque sux, ha.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Bless you Vicki and Arkali both!
> 
> I think I have a problem with Space Junque that price cannot cure.
> 
> ...


:SMACK: Space Junque does NOT suck, thank you! :glare:

But yeah, I agree with you that Spiderwork is probably the best thing right now. Keep writing


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I haven't read it, but with all of the good reviews you've gotten, I would be very surprised if the book sucked.  

Get to writing, girl.  

Vicki


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Yes, ma'ams!


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## Debi F (Nov 10, 2010)

It's nice to know that even you more seasoned indies are having questions over pricing! 

I published Summoning on 10/09/10 at $3.99. I managed to sell 6 books in the first 2 weeks and then nothing. Nada. Granted, two of those 6 people did give me 5-star reviews! (which definitely made my day)

I read some indie blogs about the 99 cent price point being better and decided to give it a try. I've lowered the price to 99 cents, posted it in my blog, on several online communities, on Twitter, on Facebook (where I have quite a few writer-friends) and Goodreads. 

I haven't sold a book since those original 6 in the first 2 weeks. 

How do you get out the word on your book (other than a blog, FB, writing communities such as this one, twitter, etc.)?

I'm trying not to focus so much on the "only 6" books sold (and to try to keep my focus on writing my latest book), but there has to be more marketing I can do . . . 

Sorry for the rant all. But thanks for "listening."


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

There are a few really good sites for exposure. There's a promotion thread around here somewhere.

The Kindle Boards Book of the Day and Kindle Nation Daily work well for getting the word out about your book. Both cost money but they are well worth it.

You can also try several blogs that have book reviews such as the marvelous Red Adept.

Just experiment with your pricing to find the one that works best for you.


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## Debi F (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks, Kyrin. 

I don't want to come across as whiny . . . that's not it. (Well, not entirely, anyway!   ) I'm just more puzzled, I guess! Will definitely check out your suggestions!


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

No worries. There's a lot of things you can do to help market and promote your book.

Another thing you can do is join the tagging thread. Tags help readers find your book.

There are some other tips scattered across the board but I'm a little brain dead right now.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Here's something I've been thinking about with regard to the price question.

I've never believed that small price differences matter to a majority of readers. I think the Amazon bestseller list is proof of that. And while all our online marketing is helpful, as I've said before, the vast majority of book shoppers go straight to Amazon, rather than search blogs or forums for book ideas. Those people only find our books if they've searched for something like "Kindle Romance" or "Scifi Thriller". The thing is, those searches return thousands of books, and a lot of people, when faced with such a huge list, will sort by price, just to bring some order to the task. Whether they really care about a few dollars or not, they're only going to click through so many pages of listings before they find a book they want to read. It's simple probabilities: among price-sorters, the cheaper books show up first and so are more likely to be picked, _because they get seen first_, not because they're cheaper.

Does that help anyone with their book marketing? Probably not, but it's helping me to understand the whole Amazon machine.

--Maria


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm going to go on record here and say a few things.

Price and marketing do matter but people spend far too much time worrying about price instead of writing and promotion.

If you're trying to understand the Amazon machine, you have to keep in mind a lot of different people with different personalities and spending habits use it. They'll pick and choose books and other products on a wide range of factors including price, reviews, name recognition or because a red sun appeared at dawn.

Price does matter in some cases. I've made more money and sales by being listed for FREE than I have made ever. I would have made more if I actually lowered my royalty rate to 35% sooner. Notice, I did not say lower my price. I've come out ahead in so many ways because of this, not just in money.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Bless you Vicki and Arkali both!
> 
> I think I have a problem with Space Junque that price cannot cure.
> 
> ...


Science fiction tends to be one of worst selling genres, too. And there may even be some gender bias you're working against as well. Romance appeals to women more than men and science fiction (I believe) appeals to men more than women.

I did buy your book at $0.99. I read the sample and saw that it was well-written. I normally wouldn't touch anything with a "romance" label, however.


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

kyrin said:


> I'm going to go on record here and say a few things.
> 
> PI would have made more if I actually lowered my royalty rate to 35% sooner. Notice, I did not say lower my price. I've come out ahead in so many ways because of this, not just in money.


I apologize if this has already been discussed to death, but I'm new here and didn't understand your point about lowering your royalty rate as opposed to price. Can you please explain it or tell me where I can find a post explaining it?

Thanks!


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

KathyCarmichael said:


> I apologize if this has already been discussed to death, but I'm new here and didn't understand your point about lowering your royalty rate as opposed to price. Can you please explain it or tell me where I can find a post explaining it?
> 
> Thanks!


I think what he's saying is this. He was at the 70% royalty rate, but when Amazon lowered his price to "Free" he wasn't getting paid per sale because the contract is different for the 70% royalty rate. When he went in and changed it to the 35% royalty rate, he started getting paid per download on his free book, because the contract says he will get paid based on his price not the price Amazon cut it to.

And this is me guessing... but I think that's what he means. Unfortunately, it's not an easy thing to get Amazon to put your book at free.

Vicki


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I think what he's saying is this. He was at the 70% royalty rate, but when Amazon lowered his price to "Free" he wasn't getting paid per sale because the contract is different for the 70% royalty rate. When he went in and changed it to the 35% royalty rate, he started getting paid per download on his free book, because the contract says he will get paid based on his price not the price Amazon cut it to.
> 
> And this is me guessing... but I think that's what he means. Unfortunately, it's not an easy thing to get Amazon to put your book at free.
> 
> Vicki


Thanks for the explanation, Vicki!

I saw on another thread where someone lowered her price to free on Smashwords, then Amazon met her free pricing. Does that mean she gets paid 35% of her Amazon price (assuming she's at 35%) or is that a different situation entirely?

Thanks!


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

KathyCarmichael said:


> Thanks for the explanation, Vicki!
> 
> I saw on another thread where someone lowered her price to free on Smashwords, then Amazon met her free pricing. Does that mean she gets paid 35% of her Amazon price (assuming she's at 35%) or is that a different situation entirely?
> 
> Thanks!


If Amazon sells her book for free and she using the 35% royalty rate, she'll get paid 35% of her Amazon list price.

My list price is $2.99 and I get $1.05 per free book downloaded since changing to the 35% royalty rate. That comes out to a lot of money. My book has been downloaded over 13000 times. It makes me wish I had switched to 35% royalty rate a lot sooner but I can't complain about the money or the publicity for under a week.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Mark Asher said:


> Science fiction tends to be one of worst selling genres, too.


Tell that to Valmore Daniels!


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## julieannfelicity (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm beginning to think pricing doesn't matter; I just found out this weekend my book is listed as FREE on Barnes & Noble (it's not free anywhere else).  I posted it on my FB author page, my FB personal page, and another forum that is designed specifically for books available to B & N.  Still no sales!


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

kyrin said:


> If Amazon sells her book for free and she using the 35% royalty rate, she'll get paid 35% of her Amazon list price.
> 
> My list price is $2.99 and I get $1.05 per free book downloaded since changing to the 35% royalty rate. That comes out to a lot of money. My book has been downloaded over 13000 times. It makes me wish I had switched to 35% royalty rate a lot sooner but I can't complain about the money or the publicity for under a week.


Wow! That's amazing. Congratulations!


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2010)

mattposner said:


> My book is @3.99, should sell itself if anyone samples it, and has a very strong cover.


Your issue then is to convince people to sample it. Which means fixing your listing.

Issue One: The cover is far too dark and I can't even read the title unless I squint and make an effort to do so. Most casual readers won't make the effort. The cover needs more contrast. It is hard to make out what the figures in the foreground are suppose to be, and at thumbnail you can't even tell they ARE figures. The pale and shadowed text is hard on the eyes. It needs to stand out more against the background. Your first name dissappears into the black at the bottom. The image itself is fine...you just need to fix the contrast and fix the lettering.

Issue Two: The description doesn't say anything a reader would care about. I suppose it is suppose to be the main character speaking, but it is not clear at all what I as a reader am suppose to get out of that. Don't be cute. Just give me a description of the book. If I have to depend on "Simon Magus" to sell me on the title, I'm not going to buy it because he sounds like a self-absorbed little punk. You need a clearer description to sell the reader on your book.

Issue Three: Your reviews look suspect. And before someone says something, NO, I am not accusing you of anything. I am only telling you what it looks like to a customer. Six of the seven five star reviews are from people who only reviewed your book, and nothing else. If any of them are your friends, tell them to either A. pull the review or B. get off their lazy butts and write more reviews of other books they have read so it doesn't look like sock puppetry. A review is only as good as the credibility of the reviewer. Right now, most of your reviews have no credibility because the reader can't judge the reviewer based on only one review. Particularly when the review is intent on "selling" the book (reviews that say "everyone should buy this book" are almost universally suspect from new reviewers.) I know sometimes they mean well, but we as publishers need to keep our pals in check on these things (and yes, I have asked friends to remove reviews in the past when I felt they were only ego boosting for me and not actually helping readers).

Before you play with price points, I would get these issues resolved and seek out nuetral third party reviewers (there are many folks in this very forum that review spec fiction).


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

I didn't get any movement on my book when it was free at Barnes and Nobles then again, I didn't even try.

Amazon, unlike Barnes and Nobles, highlights it's free books and there are still more Kindle users than Nook.

If the Amazon bot or someone reports your book as being free, you'll see a lot of movement unless your book is one of those genres where there is a lot of competition.

For example, There are only three free contemporary fantasy books and only one free occult / paranormal book. It makes it easier for people interested in those genres to see my book. In ccomparison, romance has a lot of free books.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

mattposner said:


> I am responding to this thread mainly so I can find it again. I want to read through all this debate to try to make up my mind. I don't like the slow trickle of 1-3 sales per week on my book. I spend a whole day marketing and get only 1 or 2 sales, and no sales if I don't do anything. My book is @3.99, should sell itself if anyone samples it, and has a very strong cover. Would lowering the price point increase sales? I don't think so, because I think the issue is getting the word out, but I'm going to read all the cogent arguments in the thread and be influenced by them.
> 
> Thanks for your eloquence, guys.
> 
> Matt


Julie makes some good points.

A problem I had - don't make me work to buy your book. In your sig, there's no direct link to Amazon. Fine. I went to your web site, and I don't see an Amazon link anywhere on the first page, nor did I see anything along the menu that would translate to "Click here to buy my book." Anyone that you've enticed to your web site is probably gone at this point, and good luck capturing that same eyeball again.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Arkali said:


> :SMACK: Space Junque does NOT suck, thank you! :glare:
> 
> But yeah, I agree with you that Spiderwork is probably the best thing right now. Keep writing


I agree with Arkali, so consider this a double :SMACK: Space Junque does NOT suck, thank you! :glare:

However... unless Spiderwork is the new working title of the followup book to Space Junque, I will not agree with get ti done.. I want the book that SJ leads up to... (but then you already KNOW THAT  cuz here I am still WAITING.)


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## DavidRM (Sep 21, 2010)

Debi F said:


> I published Summoning on 10/09/10 at $3.99. I managed to sell 6 books in the first 2 weeks and then nothing. Nada. Granted, two of those 6 people did give me 5-star reviews! (which definitely made my day)


Put your price back at $3.99. Your price isn't your problem and changing it won't solve the problem.

You need exposure, not NEW LOW SALE PRICE!

How to get exposure? The only "silver bullet" is "Get on Oprah". The rest is all a bunch of little things: write on your blog, request reviews (and when you get those reviews, promote them on your blog), create a FB page (as another place to trumpet your blog posts and reviews). Find and participate in reader communities (and author communities). And work on your next book.

Good luck!

-David


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

BTackitt said:


> I agree with Arkali, so consider this a double :SMACK: Space Junque does NOT suck, thank you! :glare:
> 
> However... unless Spiderwork is the new working title of the followup book to Space Junque, I will not agree with get ti done.. I want the book that SJ leads up to... (but then you already KNOW THAT  cuz here I am still WAITING.)


Consider me double-smacked! (Thank you, ma'am, may I have another?)

Yes, Spiderwork is the new title. Long story short: I wrote Space Junque as a prequel to Bleeder, which takes place over 100 years later. But so many people, including myself, fell in love with Jake and Char and Durga that they want to know what happened to them - plus I cut some scenes from Space Junque because it didn't fit the timeline of the story arc ... blah blah blah

So Spiderwork was born. The good news is, I'll put Bleeder out about a month after Spiderwork, and Blue Amber will come out as an appetizer in between Spiderwork and Bleeder. So next time you won't have to wait so long!

Anyway, on price I've settled momentarily at 1.99 for Space Junque. (and thank you Mark for trying it)


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

BTackitt said:


> I agree with Arkali, so consider this a double :SMACK: Space Junque does NOT suck, thank you! :glare:
> 
> However... unless Spiderwork is the new working title of the followup book to Space Junque, I will not agree with get ti done.. I want the book that SJ leads up to... (but then you already KNOW THAT  cuz here I am still WAITING.)


I think it's not necessarily a sequel or prequel but instead, a tie-in. I could be wrong. Whatever it is, I wants it, my precious!!  

Oh - and for good measure


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

julieannfelicity said:


> I'm beginning to think pricing doesn't matter; I just found out this weekend my book is listed as FREE on Barnes & Noble (it's not free anywhere else). I posted it on my FB author page, my FB personal page, and another forum that is designed specifically for books available to B & N. Still no sales!


Well now you have! I sampled "Kindess" a while back, and it's been on my snail's-paced TBR ever since. I intended to lay down the cash for it, but since it's free... 

--Maria


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Arkali said:


> I think it's not necessarily a sequel or prequel but instead, a tie-in. I could be wrong. Whatever it is, I wants it, my precious!!
> 
> Oh - and for good measure


Arkali - can you explain the "no hotlinking" reference? Is that directed to me? (clueless here)


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Arkali - can you explain the "no hotlinking" reference? Is that directed to me? (clueless here)


Oh, sure. It's the site owner telling me they didn't appreciate me linking straight to their image as opposed to saving first and uploading it and then linking to wherever I'd uploaded it. ie. Bandwidth thieving is bad. Yeah, I'm pretty embarrassed. I didn't do it on purpose, though... promise!

Anywho... here's what the comment was SUPPOSED to be...


Arkali said:


> I think it's not necessarily a sequel or prequel but instead, a tie-in. I could be wrong. Whatever it is, I wants it, my precious!!
> 
> Oh - and for good measure


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

well that version makes more sense!

I didn't know about bandwidth "theft" -- since I've been posting images here at KB I've been linking to  image urls a lot on my website. So I shouldn't do that? I guess Amazon doesn't care that we do it here since it leads to sales, ha.


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## julieannfelicity (Jun 28, 2010)

meromana said:


> Well now you have! I sampled "Kindess" a while back, and it's been on my snail's-paced TBR ever since. I intended to lay down the cash for it, but since it's free...
> 
> --Maria


LOL, definitely!! Get it while it's free (  ). I do hope you like it! I'm always up for advice too. 

Thanks, Maria!


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> well that version makes more sense!
> 
> I didn't know about bandwidth "theft" -- since I've been posting images here at KB I've been linking to image urls a lot on my website. So I shouldn't do that? I guess Amazon doesn't care that we do it here since it leads to sales, ha.


Amazon doesn't care, no. It's usually smaller sites that want you to host the image yourself. I just erred in thinking that the smiley face site I snagged that from was one of those. Oops!


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## RichardHein (Jun 8, 2011)

This thread is probably my favorite read of the boards so far.  So much interesting information packed into one spot.  Having just finished my first book, I'm in the editing phase with a launch hopefully in the next few months, and it's given me much to think about.  Still haven't come to a solid thought on what the launch price will be, but at least I have more information under my belt to make said decision.


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## Sarah Fawkes (Jun 23, 2011)

This is indeed a very interesting thread! Since it started last year around the beginning of the $.99 craze, I wonder how much has changed since then. As much as I already have plans on how I intend to launch, it always pays to look at history to see trends, and this thread is priceless!


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

I lost sales dropping the price to $2.99. Back to $4.95, sales are back. There's definitely a sweet spot.


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