# What's 1984?



## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

At my day job, one of my "duties" is coming up with the daily fun fact to post on the bulletin board. You would think this would be the LEAST important thing I would do all day, but if I don't have the fact up by 9 AM my co-workers get oddly twitchy and start asking if I am going to post the fun fact or not. It is almost like they can't get on with their day until they have gotten their fix of useless trivia.  But it does serve the task of getting folks talking about something other than reality TV or sports for at least a few minutes a day.

Being a bookworm, I often go with literary-themed trivia. I avoid things that are obscure or would only be know by recovering English majors like myself.  So this morning's fun fact was that George Orwell's _1984_ was first published on this day in 1949. So far this morning, these are the comments I've gotten:

"Wasn't that a movie?"

"Who's George Orwell?"

"Isn't he the guy that died the other day?"

"What's 1984?"

And after giving a brief explanation of the book to one co-worker, I got a "Huh, that's nothing like the TV show" (referring to Big Brother)

I want to scream over the intercom system "Get thee to a library, heathens!"

Have you ever wanted to shake someone vigorously for not knowing a certain book?


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I've had this idea for some time that Orwell was an optimist. Only an optimist would think that you would need a Ministry of Truth tu ruthlessly stomp out every scrap of information because if the public had access to it, they would seize on it. It would take a pessimist to think that the public would simply not pay attention.


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## cork_dork_mom (Mar 24, 2011)

Sometimes you just want to smack people upside the head!  

Here's a good one I heard at my library.... from a high school student, no less... "I need to get a copy of "How to kill a mockingbird."


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I am fortunate that most of the people I hang out with regularly are pretty well read. . . .so even the more obscure literary references are caught by most of them.

I was taken aback once though, when I saw an old friend who, literally, looked EXACTLY the way she had in college -- this was some 25 years later.  I told her she looked great and asked, "you don't have an ugly painting in your attic, do you?"   Fell flat.  She didn't get it.  And she WAS an English major. 

Also, pretty much every thing is a song cue from some musical. . . . . . .


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I am fortunate that most of the people I hang out with regularly are pretty well read. . . .so even the more obscure literary references are caught by most of them.
> 
> I was taken aback once though, when I saw an old friend who, literally, looked EXACTLY the way she had in college -- this was some 25 years later. I told her she looked great and asked, "you don't have an ugly painting in your attic, do you?"  Fell flat. She didn't get it. And she WAS an English major.
> 
> Also, pretty much every thing is a song cue from some musical. . . . . . .


I have to admit I had to think about it, Dorian Gray, right?  Not an English major...

I was shocked to hear recently that many young people didn't know that the Titanic was a real ship and really sank. Nothing surprises me after that!

Betsy


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

I've had one who didn't realise Apollo 13 really happened. That was an interesting discussion, since she knew people had walked on the moon, but was a bit hazy on how they got there.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

I know I'm a book nerd so I try not to assume what people should and should not know. But there are times when the lack of knowledge regarding something is so widespread that I wonder "What the heck are they teaching in school these days?"


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## Todd Trumpet (Sep 7, 2011)

You think literacy is bad...

...try geography.

Take a guess: What percentage of young adult Americans could NOT find the following on a map?

- The Pacific Ocean:


Spoiler



29%


- Japan:


Spoiler



58%


- France:


Spoiler



65%



And best of all:

- The United States:


Spoiler



11%



[Source: National Geographic Society, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html]

Yikes!

Todd


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I have to admit I had to think about it, Dorian Gray, right?  Not an English major...


YEP


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I was taken aback once though, when I saw an old friend who, literally, looked EXACTLY the way she had in college -- this was some 25 years later. I told her she looked great and asked, "you don't have an ugly painting in your attic, do you?"  Fell flat. She didn't get it. And she WAS an English major.





Betsy the Quilter said:


> I have to admit I had to think about it, Dorian Gray, right?  Not an English major...





Ann in Arlington said:


> YEP


In this context, with the advance knowledge that it was a literary reference, I came up with it after a minute. If you said that to me out of the blue in a casual conversation, I'd probably go "Huh?"  

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

'kay, my nearly 29 year old son is here so I gave him this quick quiz.

He's heard of George Orwell, has read _Animal Farm_ though not _1984_ but he's heard of it.

He knows of Oscar Wilde and _Dorian Gray_.

He knows of the Titanic and Apollo 13 and knows they're both real events.

He was able to find all the places on the map that Todd mentioned. (Full disclosure, he's been to all but Japan.)


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> In this context, with the advance knowledge that it was a literary reference, I came up with it after a minute. If you said that to me out of the blue in a casual conversation, I'd probably go "Huh?"
> 
> Betsy


But, now you know. 

One of my early memories is my mother talking about someone who had aged exceedingly gracefully and she made that comment. I asked what she meant and she told me of the book. So I went and read it. I think I was like 10. I believe I went back and told her that maybe she shouldn't say that about the lady 'cause it sort of implies she's a nasty, immoral person.

Now that I think about it, maybe that's why my classmate was not amused.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But, now you know.


And if I can keep it in my not-so-gracefully aging brain cells for more than a day or so, I'll be ready if someone says it to me. 



> One of my early memories is my mother talking about someone who had aged exceedingly gracefully and she made that comment. I asked what she meant and she told me of the book. So I went and read it. I think I was like 10. I believe I went back and told her that maybe she shouldn't say that about the lady 'cause it sort of implies she's a nasty, immoral person.
> 
> Now that I think about it, maybe that's why my classmate was not amused.


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## Zander Schloss (Sep 4, 2011)

I try not to be judgmental, (and it's a daily chore) but here's what happened one time about five years ago in one of my college classes. I was in a literacy class of about two dozen students and the professor mentioned _Catcher in the Rye_. There was apparently a lot of confusion and so the professor asked who had ever heard of the book. I raised my hand and was shocked when I looked around and saw only two other students raising their hands. Only three out of 24 college students in the room had read an American literature classic. Very disappointing.

If you haven't read _Catcher in the Rye_, please, in the name of all that is holy, read it today.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I haven't read Catcher in the Rye, but I've read plenty of other classics. It is very hard to read them all.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I've heard enough about _Catcher in the Rye_ that, though I'd probably appreciate it as a sort of 'landmark' novel, it's not something I want to read. Sorry. 

My son, mentioned earlier, did read it. . . .he says he hated it.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

How about this?









Saw the image on Facebook, but went to goodreads and found the Nov 22 2010 review, so I'd guess this isn't photoshopped


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

mom133d (aka Liz) said:


> How about this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone stop the Earth. I want to get off the planet. *sob*


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I've heard enough about _Catcher in the Rye_ that, though I'd probably appreciate it as a sort of 'landmark' novel, it's not something I want to read. Sorry.
> ...


I feel that way both about _Catcher in the Rye_ and _The Great Gatsby_. Based on my understanding of their plots and characters, I have just about zero interest in them, regardless of how well written they may be. But I _have_ heard of them.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I read _The Great Gatsby_ and frankly, didn't get the "Great" part...but Robert Redford was very cute as Gatsby in that version. 

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I saw the movie. . .yes Robert Redford was. . . well. . . .Robert Redford.  But the movie was boring.

My son. . . . same one. . . .read it.  His response to my question, "How was it?" was not positive.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I saw the movie. . .yes Robert Redford was. . . well. . . .Robert Redford. But the movie was boring.


Agree. It was saved by being able to stare at RR for two hours. And the clothes were pretty. 

Betsy


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

Todd Trumpet said:


> Take a guess: What percentage of young adult Americans could NOT find the following on a map?


And these are the folks that turned _Twilight_ and _The Hunger Games_ into bestsellers. Oy vey! Especially those who dissed _Dracula_.

Now let them try to find Uzbekistan on the map.


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## gdae23 (Apr 30, 2009)

Here's a one-star Amazon review of _The Martian Chronicles:

_


> dont read this book if you are looking for a book that is interesting. the martian chronicles was easily the worst non-fiction book i ever read. it is boring and hard to understand. there is no flow and because of when it was written the author is completly wrong about how space exploration has turned out.
> DONT READ THIS BOOK


I guess the reviewer found it didn't compare favorably to the other nonfiction books he's read about Martians.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

gdae23 said:


> Here's a one-star Amazon review of _The Martian Chronicles:
> 
> _
> I guess the reviewer found it didn't compare favorably to the other nonfiction books he's read about Martians.


Yes.

Well.

That is a problem, isn't it.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I know I'm a book nerd so I try not to assume what people should and should not know. But there are times when the lack of knowledge regarding something is so widespread that I wonder "What the heck are they teaching in school these days?"


Not enough! Or at least not enough of what we think they "should" know.

My daughter's class has read several novels this year that appeared to be chosen solely for the diverse backgrounds of the authors. Now, expanding horizons beyond the cliched "dead white males" subject matter is certainly an admirable goal, but you'd think that maybe the classics would come_ first_...

And they're learning all about the contributions that Governor So-and-so made to this state twenty years ago, but they don't know who the _current_ governor is, nor the current US VP...

They can't find England on a map, but they can recite the names of the eight Native American tribes which still live in Virginia. I doubt I know even one adult who might be able to do that.

<sigh> Granted that my personal priorities might not be the norm, but surely the schools have their priorities just a tad skewed...


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## cork_dork_mom (Mar 24, 2011)

Us, of a "certain age"   had to read Catcher in the rye, Great Gatsby, 1984, etc. etc. Being an English major I read a lot (some good, some not so good - James Fenimore Cooper being the worst). And while the "classics" have merit, there are A LOT of great books written now that carry the same message but are written to capture today's readers.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

Susan in VA said:


> My daughter's class has read several novels this year that appeared to be chosen solely for the diverse backgrounds of the authors. Now, expanding horizons beyond the cliched "dead white males" subject matter is certainly an admirable goal, but you'd think that maybe the classics would come_ first_...


Yeah, my niece was reading _The Hunger Games_ for her high school English class because apparently it is more important to get them to read anything than to actually teach them something. Though in the teacher's defense, with so many resources thrown at just making sure they pass the HSPT, it is a wonder there is time for actual critical thinking at all. It's hard for a teacher to spend three weeks teaching _Hamlet_ when you have to make sure the kids are ready for the pre-testing for the pre-HSPTs, then the pre-HSPTs, and finally the HSPTs. They spend so much time testing they don't have time to learn anything.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

cork_dork_mom said:


> there are A LOT of great books written now that carry the same message but are written to capture today's readers.


Absolutely. But so many of the classics have become part of a common culture. People make references to them in conversation (like Ann and her mirror.... er, not _hers_ , but you know...), and there are quotes (or near-quotes) from them in writing and in movies and other popular culture.

I feel out of the loop sometimes when people quote things from some current TV show that I've never heard of. But I do think there are cultural images and concepts and quotes that are more universal, and that one should have at least a passing familiarity with. (I'm not saying that I do. I missed out on quite a few of the classics. Luckily many of them are free on Kindle.  Never too late to catch up!)


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Julie, with back-to-back posts I just noticed that your Sith Witch has the same facial coloring as my Pixiecat. Separated at birth?


Spoiler



If so, yours is obviously the evil twin.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Being a techie, working amongst computer/communications types (who often can't spell engineer), I used to feel this problem.
At an early age I was introduced to The Story of Dorian Grey. - 'cause see it was kinda an early SciFi/Fantasy story, right?
And at a party of Case Tech alumni types (not me) a conversation ensued that led real nicely to a "you ought to see my painting in the attic" comment.......only one fellow and I laughed.  Everyone else looked at us as if we were freaks.  And he understood because he was from Ireland and had a Literary education.

So sad.
And that whole bit about the Dracula reviews.....just scary.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

My brother bought this book on our (well, my) account: 

He says it's EXCELLENT. . .talks about all the classical literature, culture, and historical references in Harry Potter. He said it made him realize he actually had a pretty good education as most of it was at least a bit familiar. . .but there was still a lot that was new. He strongly recommends it.

There was one year in HS that my son had to choose books to read in the summer. 80% of the reading list was Oprah picks, and the others were of the same ilk. Come on. . . .how are you going to get a teenage boy interested in reading books that a middle aged woman likes. They might not even appeal to teen girls. But apparently they appealed to the teacher.  (For the record, I AM a middle aged woman and don't even like 99% of Oprah's picks. )


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

Susan in VA said:


> *****, with back-to-back posts I just noticed that your Sith Witch has the same facial coloring as my Pixiecat. Separated at birth?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Don't be so sure. Cats are inherently evil. Just remember that the ancient Eygptians worshipped them for a reason. And it wasn't because they were cute and cuddly lol


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## Todd Trumpet (Sep 7, 2011)

mom133d (aka Liz) said:


>


*Overheard in English Lit., 2121 A.D.*:

STUDENT #1: "Have you tried to slog through this 'TWILIGHT' assignment yet?"

STUDENT #2: "(groans) Ug! Don't remind me!"

STUDENT #1: "I mean, all these complex concepts - what is she trying to prove?"

STUDENT #2: "So turn-of-the-millennium. _Last_."

STUDENT #3: "(interrupting) I hate to tell you this, but it takes like, two more books after that to tell the story."

STUDENT #2: "What?? That's, like, almost 3 books!"

STUDENT #1: "I know. If I wanted to read something _hard_, I'd smack myself with 'THE HUNGER GAMES'."

STUDENT #2: "No way, I'm only in grad school."

STUDENT #3: "So, stop killing yourselves. You can stream inter-cranial versions from Cliff's Nodes."

STUDENT #1: "Gosh, I don't know, Cliff's Nodes...?"

STUDENT #2: "Yeah, do they make an abridged version...?"

Todd


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

As far as what the schools are teaching now, as far as the USA goes it seems to be whatever they anticipate will be on the standardized tests. Anything else they can fit in is a bonus. I am therefore guessing that those tests do not include much in the way of classic literature references nor geography.


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## Margo Karasek (Feb 29, 2012)

cork_dork_mom said:


> Sometimes you just want to smack people upside the head!
> 
> Here's a good one I heard at my library.... from a high school student, no less... "I need to get a copy of "How to kill a mockingbird."


That's too funny . . . in a really sad, sad way.


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## Craig Halloran (May 15, 2012)

I really need to get on the ball and read this book. It's been on my reading list too long.


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## Margo Karasek (Feb 29, 2012)

Okay, so after quitting law I became a tutor to support myself while writing. I tutor in NYC. My students come from the most prestigious private schools. They go on to Yale, Harvard, etc. (mostly as legacies). And you know what, pretty much all of them have never heard of these books. Heck, most don't even realize that New Jersey is a state    No joke. I had more than one student insist that NJ was a borough of NY!


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2012)

Margo Karasek said:


> I had more than one student insist that NJ was a borough of NY!


*head to keyboard*


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I am fortunate that most of the people I hang out with regularly are pretty well read. . . .so even the more obscure literary references are caught by most of them.
> 
> I was taken aback once though, when I saw an old friend who, literally, looked EXACTLY the way she had in college -- this was some 25 years later. I told her she looked great and asked, "you don't have an ugly painting in your attic, do you?"  Fell flat. She didn't get it. And she WAS an English major.
> 
> Also, pretty much every thing is a song cue from some musical. . . . . . .


Uh-oh. I knew immediately what book you were referencing and I dropped out of high school after my sophomore year. I read The Picture of Dorian Gray and many of the others mentioned in this thread because (gasp!) I wanted to and not because anyone made me.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Margo Karasek said:


> Okay, so after quitting law I became a tutor to support myself while writing. I tutor in NYC. My students come from the most prestigious private schools. They go on to Yale, Harvard, etc. (mostly as legacies). And you know what, pretty much all of them have never heard of these books. Heck, most don't even realize that New Jersey is a state  No joke. I had more than one student insist that NJ was a borough of NY!


To most NYers, NJ is just an extended part of NYC....

Oh, and Ann, EVERYTHING is song cue in my world.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> And they're learning all about the contributions that Governor So-and-so made to this state twenty years ago, but they don't know who the _current_ governor is, nor the current US VP...
> 
> They can't find England on a map, but they can recite the names of the eight Native American tribes which still live in Virginia. I doubt I know even one adult who might be able to do that.


It's Virginia. You're lucky they learn anything other than the Civil War (speaking as the wife of a raised-in-Virginia hubby).

Betsy


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

telracs said:


> To most NYers, NJ is just an extended part of NYC....


No, _north_ Jersey is virtually part of NYC, and most of the NJ residents from Trenton on south would be happy to cede it to you and make it official.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

NogDog said:


> No, _north_ Jersey is virtually part of NYC, and most of the NJ residents from Trenton on south would be happy to cede it to you and make it official.


Trenton? Isn't that part of Pennsylvania?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

telracs said:


> Trenton? Isn't that part of Pennsylvania?


Well, I'd be willing to cede it to them if they'd take it: it's gotten almost as depressing as Newark.

Let's see, who can we give Atlantic City to?


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Well, I'd be willing to cede it to them if they'd take it: it's gotten almost as depressing as Newark.
> 
> Let's see, who can we give Atlantic City to?


Nevada.


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## John A. A. Logan (Jan 25, 2012)

Well..before ever visiting or working in the USA...I'd read THE GREAT GATSBY, CATCHER IN THE RYE, DRACULA too...Steinbeck etc...in Highlands of Scotland.
I could relate to, and was overjoyed by, every word in those masterpieces. 
Ray Bradbury too...though it was the TV adaptation of THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES that spooked me first, as introduction to Bradbury, watched on a black and white tv on a farm in Scotland. 
It was later on that I read FAHRENHEIT 451...Mr Bradbury's extension of the ideas in 1984 it seemed.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.thecomicstrips.com/store/add_strip.php?iid=29263

See the above regarding Dorian Grey.

I'd heard of Dorian Grey for years, but have never read it, and might not know what it was about except for seeing the movie on The Late Show while in college. I read 1984 and Animal Farm on my own time in high school, and sorry to admit it, but I tried reading Dracula about the same age and the writing style just put me to sleep! Never have gone back to it.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

George Orwell was a staple of highschool and university reading lists when I was a teenager in the 1980s. I read both _Animal Farm_ and _1984_ in highschool along with several of his essays. To this day I love "Why I write". However, sometime between 1992 and today, Orwell fell out of fashion, probably we wasn't considered relevant anymore in a post-1989 world. At any rate, when I assigned an Orwell essay to a university undergraduate class I taught in 2009, only two students in a class of fifty or so had ever heard of Orwell. And those two were retaking the class and had been taught by a now retired professor who used to assign 1984 in his classes. I find it said that Orwell is falling out of fashion, since I still find him very relevant, but if more and more teachers stop assigning and teaching a given author, this is what happens.

That said, none of the students in my 9th grade highschool class knew who Stephen King was or had ever read him, which I found just sad. I expected that they wouldn't know who Louisa May Alcott was (in Germany only English majors know her and most of the literature professors at universities find her too domestic), but I expected that someone would have heard of Stephen King. But that class is depressingly uninterested in everything.

But my favourite incident happened in a literature class at university, when the professor said something along the lines of, "Of course, the well known conclusion of _Waiting for Godot_ is that Godot never comes", whereupon a male student completely freaked out and complained very loudly about the professor spoiling the play for him. "But everybody knows that Godot doesn't come", the professor said, quite puzzled by the vehement reaction. "Well, I didn't know", said the student and then launched into a lengthy diatribe about how he was an immigrant (he was of Russian origin) and couldn't be expected to know all those western books. I just thought, "You've been in Germany since you were ten or so and besides you're studying English, so you really ought to have picked up sometime that Godot never comes. And even if you genuinely didn't know, how stupid do you have to be to flaunt your ignorance in front of the whole class?"


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

Maybe we should send them to Room 101.


And I thought NJ was that stretch of highway between DC and NYC with the toll exits. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Geemont said:


> And I thought NJ was that stretch of highway between DC and NYC with the toll exits.


Yup, it's that long dead-straight road where you can floor it.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

CoraBuhlert said:


> That said, none of the students in my 9th grade highschool class knew who Stephen King was or had ever read him, which I found just sad. I expected that they wouldn't know who Louisa May Alcott was (in Germany only English majors know her and most of the literature professors at universities find her too domestic), but I expected that someone would have heard of Stephen King. But that class is depressingly uninterested in everything.


I suspect it's not just that class. My oldest and best friend has been teaching English and French at that same grade level for about twenty years now (in Hannover), and she complains regularly about the apathy that's taken hold in recent years. And don't get her started on the parental attitudes...


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Yup, it's that long dead-straight road where you can floor it.


Unless you're approaching exit 15 in either direction, or The Merge heading south between exits 8A and 8, or if everyone decides to gawk at the car fire in the oncoming lanes, or if it's raining, or....


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Unless you're approaching exit 15 in either direction, or The Merge heading south between exits 8A and 8, or if everyone decides to gawk at the car fire in the oncoming lanes, or if it's raining, or....


Details, details....


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I had to read 1984 in class, in 1984  . I haven't read most of anything else that has been mentioned in this thread. Chances are, if I didn't have to read it back in school, I am not going to drudge my way through it now.  

But since I grew up outside of America, my list of classics is probably a bit different.  
Of course I blocked out a lot of the stuff I did have to read, so I am not much help. I know there was some Shakespeare in there and some German authors of sorts and some other stuff. I do know I never read Catcher in the Rye, nor do I have any interest. 

We all have such different backgrounds though, there is no way everyone read the same stuff. There are only so many days in a human lifespan and there are a lot of so called classics out there. 

But I can find most Countries on the map, including the 42 the participated in the Eurovision this year.  

And I had a subscription to the German Stephen King Library that send me a book every few weeks when I was 17  
I see they are still around.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Atunah said:


> But since I grew up outside of America, my list of classics is probably a bit different.


While in school in the U.S., I had to read some of the classics assigned here.... but I admit that in some cases I kinda sorta fudged my way through... I read the info on the dust jacket and the first chapter and the last page, and winged it from there. There were several books that seemed so tedious that I decided I'd rather spend my time reading Sherlock Holmes or whatever else I was into at the time.

Then, in my late teens and back in Germany, I took on some tutoring jobs... one was a group of five middle school girls who were failing English, and their parents jointly hired me to get the girls up to speed so they'd pass the class... so of course I had to work with them on the material they were covering in class. Wouldn't you know it: it was two of the books that I had managed to avoid reading in my own classes, and now I had to not only read them but pretty much analyze every sentence!   To this day, the mention of _Our Town_ or _Lord of the Flies_ makes me want to run away screaming.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> While in school in the U.S., I had to read some of the classics assigned here.... but I admit that in some cases I kinda sorta fudged my way through... I read the info on the dust jacket and the first chapter and the last page, and winged it from there. There were several books that seemed so tedious that I decided I'd rather spend my time reading Sherlock Holmes or whatever else I was into at the time.
> 
> Then, in my late teens and back in Germany, I took on some tutoring jobs... one was a group of five middle school girls who were failing English, and their parents jointly hired me to get the girls up to speed so they'd pass the class... so of course I had to work with them on the material they were covering in class. Wouldn't you know it: it was two of the books that I had managed to avoid reading in my own classes, and now I had to not only read them but pretty much analyze every sentence!   To this day, the mention of _Our Town_ or _Lord of the Flies_ makes me want to run away screaming.


Oh I remember doing the dust cover and skimming through it. I always hated to do these things for class. So much though I think its why I hate doing reviews today for books. I would always wait til the last minute and then had to do the cliff notes version. Those are the books I must have blocked out, as I just can't remember what they were. I remember others that I actually read. And I always wanted to read something other than what they wanted us to read. So I did, which is why I ran out of time for the class work  

I just never enjoyed dissecting books. Never have, never will. I just want to read them and enjoy them. But I never went to any University or such, just High School equivalent and then off to work full time.


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## cagnes (Oct 13, 2009)

Todd R. Tystad said:


> I try not to be judgmental, (and it's a daily chore) but here's what happened one time about five years ago in one of my college classes. I was in a literacy class of about two dozen students and the professor mentioned _Catcher in the Rye_. There was apparently a lot of confusion and so the professor asked who had ever heard of the book. I raised my hand and was shocked when I looked around and saw only two other students raising their hands. Only three out of 24 college students in the room had read an American literature classic. Very disappointing.
> 
> If you haven't read _Catcher in the Rye_, please, in the name of all that is holy, read it today.


I haven't read it either, but I've definitely heard of it. LOL, I guess those students never saw the movie "Conspiracy Theory" with Mel Gibson, who is compelled to by copies of _Catcher in the Rye_.


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## adammjohnson (Dec 5, 2011)

Susan in VA said:


> Not enough! Or at least not enough of what we think they "should" know.
> 
> My daughter's class has read several novels this year that appeared to be chosen solely for the diverse backgrounds of the authors. Now, expanding horizons beyond the cliched "dead white males" subject matter is certainly an admirable goal, but you'd think that maybe the classics would come_ first_...
> 
> ...


In defense of public schools (or at least the public schools I went through in the 90s)--we were assigned plenty of classic literature in school. That doesn't mean we read it. For example I'll cop to not having finished Pride and Prejudice or The Great Gatsby when they were assigned to me in High School, along with some other books that I don't remember any more. And I have no doubt that I was not alone--Cliffs Notes exists for a reason.

Schools are stuck with the thankless task of teaching hordes of grudging juveniles--at least half of whom are, by definition, dumber than average--huge amounts of material, and very simply all of it isn't going to take. Much of what they teach is promptly forgotten. I know that I learned about the different types of clouds, how to conjugate French verbs, the names of Chinese dynasties and arcane algebraic equations, not to mention a lot of physics and algebra in school all of which I've long since forgotten. So I sort of think we shouldn't necessarily blame the schools when someone is unfamiliar with something in our knowledge base...

That said I think that one problem with high school English classes is that they assign lots of books that are almost completely unengaging. For example I've been reading The Great Gatsby lately and while Fitzgerald's prose is excellent--and surely the reason it's assigned to high school students--the story 2/3rds of the way through simply isn't that interesting. And being forced to read something against your will almost invariably sucks away at least half the fun that you might otherwise experience from it. (Oh and then my 11th grade English teacher assigned us things like 'the Awakening' and 'Ethan Fromme' which are absolutely excruciating, or at least were for this then 16 year old heterosexual male.)


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I admit that I was _that student_ who did actually read all the assigned reading. Doesn't mean I liked it. I usually used something like _Cliff's Notes_ to explain to me what I was supposed to have gotten out of it.

And there were a bunch that I finished ahead of the assigned schedule. Like _The Scarlet Letter_ and _Lord of the flies_. If they were _at all_ interesting I didn't stop when I got to the end of the assigned chapter. . .I just finished the thing. Or sometimes if they were that boring I'd read to get the heck finished with it. I quickly figured out to note what happened when so that I could talk in class like I really saw all the 'prefiguring' and I'd 'guess' at what might happen later -- actually knowing because I'd already read it. 

Never pulled any punches to the teacher, either, if I though it was just a dull story.  For the most part they were o.k. with that as it was obvious I was forming an opinion based on actually having read it rather than what I'd heard. And they knew I was always reading _something_. In fact there was one thing we read which was horrible. . .I don't even remember now what it was. . . but I remember telling the teacher something to the effect of, "Look I'll read just about anything just because it's there, and I could barely get through this; I can't really blame the others for basically refusing to bother." I don't think that book was on the curriculum after that year. . .at least, I know my brother 2 years behind me didn't have to read it.

_Cliff's Notes_ always had a really good bibliography, too, so you could use it to write the inevitable analysis paper on a book.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

If I wanted a decent grade (and I did), I had to read the material. My English teacher had copies of the Cliff Notes and asked questions about stuff that wasn't covered and could tell if your answer was based on Cliffs or the book. She did however let us get away with the Cliff's version of War and Peace.

I've read _Dracula_, _Frankenstein_ and _The Great Gatsby_ in the past couple of years. I found all of them rather dull, but I am still on my quest to read "the classics".


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

But not all books are even "meant" to be exciting reading.
Books like Don Quixote and The Brothers Karamazov can be boring if you are not reading them for a purpose.
But they TELL you stuff.  And they are meant to make you think.  Don't read them if you are trying to "escape".
That is what pulp fiction is all about - just mindlessly turn the pages.
Sorry but I get upset when people complain about books that are GOOD just because they don't want to have mental exercise.  Which attitude is perfectly ok.  I like pulp fiction too. In its place and when my mind needs to be "not-challenged".
But the Red Badge of Courage is worth reading through (probably the first American Epic - most of the prior ones were written by authors born and educated elsewhere).

You learn so much about the Russian soul by reading Tolstoy and Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn.

And who wants to read through (for recreation) the Iliad or the Odyssey? But you gain so much by doing so.

Just sayin......


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> And who wants to read through (for recreation) the Iliad or the Odyssey? But you gain so much by doing so.
> 
> Just sayin......


Actually, I'm trying to find a decent translation of the Odyssey because I do want to re-read it for pleasure...


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I actually really enjoyed the Odyssey when I read it in HS. . . .the Iliad less so, but the teacher was very good at explaining why the people for whom it was originally composed would have found it fascinating. . . . no clue what translation it was though, sorry.


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## Alpha72 (May 9, 2012)

That hurts my brain


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I picked up The Iliad (Lattimore translation) recently when the Kindle version was marked down, and I intend to read both it and The Odyssey, but haven't done so yet, and haven't snagged The Odyssey yet.  I read The Odyssey in a college english course, haven't read Iliad other than a watered-down version in an English class in 8th grade.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Susan in VA said:


> I suspect it's not just that class. My oldest and best friend has been teaching English and French at that same grade level for about twenty years now (in Hannover), and she complains regularly about the apathy that's taken hold in recent years. And don't get her started on the parental attitudes...


Don't get me started on the parental attitudes. 

I didn't actually mind _Lord of the Flies_ too much, but that was largely due to Mr. H. who was my English teacher at the time. I have a phobia of butterflies and once had something of a freakout during a classtrip in at butterflies displayed in some kind of natural history museum. And Mr. H. came to ask if I was okay and when I told him that I hated butterflies, he didn't laugh like everybody else, but nodded solemnly and told me that William Golding had used butterflies and other flying insects as a metaphor for the devil in _Lord of the Flies_ and that maybe I should read the book. And I did.

Growing up in Germany, I also got the usual Goethe (_Werther_ and _Faust_) and Schiller (_Wilhelm Tell_ and _Intrigue and Love_) plus Thomas Mann (that man needed an editor), postwar writing (Heinrich Böll and the like) and East German authors (I called one of them a fraud, because his book did not match my own experiences of East Germany). I read most of them, though I skimmed a lot of Mann, tolerated some of it and violently hated many others, including _All Quiet on the Western Front_ (still my most hated book of all time) and Lessing's _Emilia Galotti_ (honour killing as an act of liberation) and _Drachenblut/Dragon's Blood_ by some East German author (hitting women is normal. Men don't mean it. It's a reflex). Women always died in those books, too. I think I only read a single female author in all of highschool.

We also read Shakespeare in English class, which I actually liked, because at least there were no honour killings and women killing themselves.


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## John A. A. Logan (Jan 25, 2012)

I never really liked LORD OF THE FLIES, not sure why, maybe it was just that phenomenon of being shown it too young and forced to read at school that seems to cause a lot of problems too. 
But years later I found another William Golding novel, FREE FALL, in a charity shop and it was brilliant, electrified. 
Few years after that, friend sent me a hardback in the post she'd found in a room in a Czechoslovakia school, no-one wanted it, she posted it to me in Scotland with a note saying "This probably isn't the best novel in the world, but..."
She hadn't read it, but it was William Golding's DARKNESS VISIBLE, she knew I liked Golding. 
I read it and it turned out to be one of the best novels I'd ever read. Then I loaned it to an Irish mate and he thought so too.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Have you ever wanted to shake someone vigorously for not knowing a certain book?


Not if the book was 1984. I'd have wanted to hug them for not knowing it (it being understood that I was forced to read 1984 against my will when I was in school). It was one of the few assigned readings I didn't enjoy.

But I am sometimes amazed at the classic books (and movies) people don't know. I think my biggest surprise came from my husband thinking David Copperfield was some guy who did magic tricks.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

gdae23 said:


> Here's a one-star Amazon review of _The Martian Chronicles:
> 
> _
> I guess the reviewer found it didn't compare favorably to the other nonfiction books he's read about Martians.


ROFL!

That one had me laughing out loud. 

I work in a office where all but one or two of the staff are between 25 and 35 years younger than I am and I'm constantly amazed by the things they seem to have no knowledge of, things which I would consider to be either required learning or which I would think you couldn't avoid knowing. Not just in literature terms but generally.

I do think that kids don't seem to read as much as they used to and maybe that's where their lack of general knowledge comes from, as well as their lack of knowledge about literature. I wonder sometimes if I left school as ignorant as they seem to be and just picked up all my knowledge going through life, or if they just don't teach kids the same things anymore. Perhaps a little of both?


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## Twofishes (May 30, 2012)

> The Great Gatsby...isn't that interesting.





> I've read Dracula, Frankenstein and The Great Gatsby... all of them rather dull...


The way people think about themselves and society has changed radically since those books were written. Being constantly bombarded by a millennial mindset (which is itself a lot different than the mindset I was bombarded with(and I wasn't bombarded like today's youth because media was considerably less accessible) during my own youth), makes works like these(and 1984 which was published in 1949) unrelatable(not a real word) to today's youth.

At least in the United States.


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## purplesmurf (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm pretty sure most high school graduates have read that book, I know for me it was a book we had to read for English class.


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## fancynancy (Aug 9, 2009)

I love all things Oscar Wilde, but I don't think he should be taught in schools.  His stuff is frivolous and misogynistic.  (Ann, I often say "somewhere there's a portrait of you going to h--- in an attic".  Love it.). Pride and Prejudice is absolutely hilarious and is one of my favorite books of all time, but isn't it a classic just for how much fun it is, as opposed to being truly literary?  I was reading it on my own, outside of class while in class the teacher was lecturing on Tess Of The Durbervilles and the romantic poets, which I found less interesting.  I think she spent a full week on the meaning of that albatross while I was whipping through Jane Austen, the Great Gatsby, Dracula, Frankenstein and similar less dry stuff.  I wonder if a century earlier kids were reading Tess at home at night under the covers while being taught the Greek tragedies?  I don't have kids in school, but I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere someone is teaching "Layla" and "Stairway To Heaven" as "classics" in a music class.    I guess time marches on!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

purplesmurf said:


> I'm pretty sure most high school graduates have read that book, I know for me it was a book we had to read for English class.


There were a lot of books I was supposed to read in high school. I think I read one of them.  Just sayin'.

Betsy


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

The reviews for _Dracula_ almost made me cry. 

I once came across a review of the movie "A Clockwork Orange": One star: "If this was supposed to be a comedy, it wasn't very funny."  I dread to think of what that reviewer would have had to say about the book. Then again, I don't think the person would ever read such a book. 

Geography:

I freely admit that I am geographically challenged, but I can point out the continents, etc.

When my mother, who has a HEAVY southern accent, moved to Idaho years ago, she had this conversation with a sales lady in a store:

Lady: Oh, what a cute accent. Say something.

Mom: Su-o-umthin' (Really hard to type the accent, but think _Gone With the Wind_.

Lady: Where are you from?

Mom: Te-a-exas

Lady: Oh, really? What part, Louisiana?

Yep, 'cause Texas likes to suck up all the surrounding states.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

adammjohnson said:


> In defense of public schools (or at least the public schools I went through in the 90s)--we were assigned plenty of classic literature in school. That doesn't mean we read it. For example I'll cop to not having finished Pride and Prejudice or The Great Gatsby when they were assigned to me in High School, along with some other books that I don't remember any more. And I have no doubt that I was not alone--Cliffs Notes exists for a reason.
> 
> Schools are stuck with the thankless task of teaching hordes of grudging juveniles--at least half of whom are, by definition, dumber than average--huge amounts of material, and very simply all of it isn't going to take. Much of what they teach is promptly forgotten. I know that I learned about the different types of clouds, how to conjugate French verbs, the names of Chinese dynasties and arcane algebraic equations, not to mention a lot of physics and algebra in school all of which I've long since forgotten. So I sort of think we shouldn't necessarily blame the schools when someone is unfamiliar with something in our knowledge base...


I agree, I always said about schools...it really doesn't matter much what school you attend....you get out of it what you put into it. If you go to a community college and devour the work and the books...you're more educated than the Harvard alum legacy who read the dust jacket


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## emalvick (Sep 14, 2010)

I was actually talking to my wife about this topic as I found it pertinent considering I just read 1984 for the first time back in February (I'm 36).  The thing I find interesting in talking to my wife and others is that the literature we read through school (and I'm thinking of my jr high and sr high school time in the late 80's and early 90's) varied significantly depending on school, teachers, location, etc.

1984 was never in my curriculum.  I had heard of it and had fairly good ideas of what it was about to the point I had put it on my must read list along with other classics like The Great Gatsby that I never had in my curriculum.  At the same time, there is this issue with students that being told to read something, given homework on it, having deadlines on progress, and analyzing every word really becomes a drag.  School can put a stress on the enjoyment a person can have in reading.  I know that isn't true of all people, probably more-so here than elsewhere, but many people like reading but still didn't like being forced to read in school.

Now I know there is value in the books being taught in school; I found value in the long run.  But, there has to be a better way to instill that value.  The biggest value to me was that during my college years as an engineering major, I chose to buck the student mentality when it came to literature courses.  I was an engineering student who was spending every hour on physics, calculus, and engineer classes and its homework.  I had to take about 10 literature type classes for general ed, and my method was to take the class strictly for the reading and essentially ignore the school related aspects of the courses.  It may sound bad, but I quit worrying about how far I was supposed to be in a book.  I quit worrying about what I was supposed to find between the lines, and you know what?  I ended up with better grades in literature classes than I ever had in high school.  The secret, I enjoyed the books, and more importantly I reflected on the books on my own time without much concern over every little detail we discussed in class.  I wrote what I felt about a book rather than worry about what the teacher felt.

I'm sure you literate types here will say "no duh" but when something is mandatory and not in your direct interest, you focus more on just getting the grade rather than obtaining something from it.  Ultimately, I appreciated books and what I could get from classics once I figured out on my own how to get it.  I've even gone as far as rereading books I thought I hated in high school.  Sure enough, no stress led to more enjoyment.  I know I would have hated 1984 back in the early 90's.  Now, I can appreciate it (I still don't like it).

Now, my to read list is almost entirely classics or those that will be.  There is a lot to gain and appreciate out there.  People shouldn't be ridiculed because they don't know something.  They should be encouraged to learn it.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

emalvick said:


> I was actually talking to my wife about this topic as I found it pertinent considering I just read 1984 for the first time back in February (I'm 36). The thing I find interesting in talking to my wife and others is that the literature we read through school (and I'm thinking of my jr high and sr high school time in the late 80's and early 90's) varied significantly depending on school, teachers, location, etc.


Absolutely. My father's job had us moving about every 3 years. I spent elementary school & "middle" school in various parts of Northern and later Southwestern Virginia. Middle is in quotes because where I spent most of elementary school was so small it was K-7 and in 8th grade I started HS. I spent grades 9-11 in PA and returned to extremely Southwest VA my senior year. Aside from talking with classmates and discovering the different literature assigned, my sister was lucky enough to graduate from there as well. So, when she entered 8th grade she was assigned Mark Twain. When I was in 8th grade, that was a 9th grade level book so with moving, I never had it assigned. That's one example that really stands out in my memory.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

emalvick said:


> People shouldn't be ridiculed because they don't know something. They should be encouraged to learn it.


It's easy to miss learning something during the school years, for whatever reason. That's not something to be ridiculed (though in some cases it warrants complaining about the schools in question). Learning shouldn't stop at graduation, after all. What I find much more alarming is the post-school attitude of _"I'm a CompSci major, why do I need to know anything about literature?" _ or _"I own 300 comic books, who needs literature classics?" _, both of which I come across with disturbing frequency.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

The strange thing to think about, at least to me, as I turn 41 this Friday, is how many people in the workforce were not even close to being born in 1984.  Makes me feel like I am so ancient.


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## cork_dork_mom (Mar 24, 2011)

Maybe being made to read a book as a teenager dooms it from the start, no matter how good it is. Because as a teeanger it's required to rebel against everything an adult tells you to do  . It's known as the Contrary Phase.

What's interesting to do is to read some of the books we had to read in high school.... then again, maybe not - there are just too many good books to discover for the first time let alone squeeze in time to reread anything.


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## emalvick (Sep 14, 2010)

cork_dork_mom said:


> What's interesting to do is to read some of the books we had to read in high school.... then again, maybe not - there are just too many good books to discover for the first time let alone squeeze in time to reread anything.


This is kind of what I was getting at on my previous post. I've read some books that are considered classics that I completely missed due to school, etc, and have enjoyed them. I enjoyed the classics I read in my college literature classes because contrary to the case described by Susan in VA previously, I was one of those engineers who looked at the literature classes as my excuse to read something non-technical. From that attitude came an feeling that I don't care how I do in the class, I just want to do the reading. And, from that I ended up with better grades in literature type courses than I ever had, and most importantly I enjoyed the books. I didn't enjoy them all, but I never resented reading anything. It made me appreciate the classics, even those that aren't entertaining.

This discovery has also inspired me to read a few of the books that I did have to read in high school for a second time. That second time often felt like a first time given how little I got out of the books in high school. For all I read in high school, and I remembered most of the plots, I never retained much from those books. Some books I hate just as much on a second reading as I did the first time around. Specifically, I hated Great Expectations in school, and I still do. I think it just creeps me out, but I've also found that I just can't stand Dickens. It's just not my style. Strangely, I thought I liked Hemingway in school, and I now dislike his books. Conversely, I disliked Steinbeck but now find him a favorite.

As for having too much to read... Part of the reason we all read such different books in school is because even among the classics there are too many to read. If I worry too much about how many books I'm going to read, I'd quit reading. I'm not a diehard reader, and I find many of you and your 100 books in a year goals admirable. I'm lucky if I get 20 books in a year. I just hope to enjoy all I do read and look to be inspired.


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## cork_dork_mom (Mar 24, 2011)

emalvick said:


> As for having too much to read... Part of the reason we all read such different books in school is because even among the classics there are too many to read. If I worry too much about how many books I'm going to read, I'd quit reading. I'm not a diehard reader, and I find many of you and your 100 books in a year goals admirable. I'm lucky if I get 20 books in a year. I just hope to enjoy all I do read and look to be inspired.


That's one thing I've never done - set a goal of how many books to read. Sounds too much like homework 

I read in spurts... sometimes I'll read constantly (after work, of course) then it kinda peters out and I can't decide what to read. Thankfully THAT doesn't last long and I dive right back in.


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