# Beware - if you use FB Groups to spread the word...



## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

FB has been banning authors from posting in book related groups. We do not know what the actual trigger is, whether it's the timing between posting or if it is the exact same post on the various groups or the number of posts done in succession, but once you are banned, you are out of the water for 14 days minimum.  It's a 14 day black out from any group activity, and what is worse, when they ban the user from posting to groups, they delete ALL their posts from the beginning of time, not just the ones that may have triggered their algorithms. 

This includes deleting entries in groups that that author created, even closed or secret groups. 

So if you use this option in your marketing strategy, you might want to think twice or at the very least, spread out your posting throughout the day to gain exposure without risking being banned. 

Unfortunately, I got hit with this while trying to advertise my new release coming out this week.  So any exposure through Facebook is completely gone. 
Lesson learned and passing along so someone else doesn't get slammed at a critical time if they use this strategy.


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## Cap&#039;n Crunch (Aug 10, 2009)

Could you elaborate on how you promoted this new release so we can see what's "too much"?


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## josielitton (Jul 21, 2014)

Tricia Owens said:


> Could you elaborate on how you promoted this new release so we can see what's "too much"?


I'd like to know that, too. How much is too much?


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

I was a member of about 75 groups and I posted the Amazon link to the book along with the Tag line of the book and the release date for 11/10 and the pre-order price of $0.99.  

Another author posted in a number of groups for a boxed set pre-order for $0.99 and she was banned as well. I don't know the actual number of sites she posted to before they dropped the axe - but for her it was much more painful because she is the organizer of boxed sets and the groups set up for those with rules/expectations/tasks/all other boxed related information were all deleted by FB. 

I know people who do this regularly and this complete black out and deletion of everything that has ever been out there in groups is a new and devastating tactic. 

ETA - As far as the how much is too much - we don't know. 
In prior cases, people had been able to post to over a hundred groups within the same day and if they triggered a ban, it was only for 24 hours.  Not two weeks. And in none of the prior cases of banning did facebook delete all group posts by the person, with no warning prior to doing so.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm assuming all of these groups welcome promotional posts? How effective were those? Every group I've ever been in that allowed self-promo was a noisy spamfest. eta: I don't belong to any that allow it anymore.


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

Monique said:


> I'm assuming all of these groups welcome promotional posts? How effective were those? Every group I've ever been in that allowed self-promo was a noisy spamfest. eta: I don't belong to any that allow it anymore.


Yes - or they have certain days they allow promotions and I'm pretty good at not posting when they don't allow it - like Paranormal Romance Guild only allows promo posts on Sundays. I don't put anything on their group except on Sundays.

The groups I belonged to specifically welcomed author posts for releases and sales - a lot were for kindle users and kindle unlimited users looking for titles on sale.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Monique said:


> I'm assuming all of these groups welcome promotional posts? How effective were those? Every group I've ever been in that allowed self-promo was a noisy spamfest. eta: I don't belong to any that allow it anymore.


I'm not a member of any groups that allow promotional posts either. I can't figure out how posting links to other authors is a benefit. I think Facebook is trying to make it clear that if you want to advertise, you're going to have to pay for it. I expect them to get stricter as time goes on.


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## The Bass Bagwhan (Mar 9, 2014)

I was aware sometime back that Facebook didn't like multiple posts, but never saw it put in place. I'm guessing they've tweaked whatever system that allows them to discover instances of such posts (although they wouldn't have to look too hard...).
Most likely, it's all about forcing people towards paying for FB's own "Boost" service rather than allowing such free promotional activity.
Interesting that quite a few Fiverr services offer to post to FB groups for you. Wonder if they will get hit?


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I have two author friends that I've known for years, that were both banned for the 14 day period. One writes devotionals and mysteries, and the other writes romance. The one said she used an outside source (Hootsuite) to post hers, the other was just posting to one group after another everyday from her extensive backlist. 

All these posts were in reader groups that allow and exist for the purpose of finding reads. 

Auto posting (from another source) will get you banned. My opinion is they want to push authors in to their paid ad options.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

To be fair, this isn't an "anti-author" thing.  It's one way that facebook is trying to stop every group everywhere from being constantly swamped with posts about everything from cheap brand name sneaker knock-offs to the latest fingernail decoration kit.

It's kinda inconvenient when we have our own wares to hawk, but I can see their point


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I am curious to know how many sales you attribute to posting in dozens of FB groups?  How devastating is this in terms of actual sales?


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## TromboneAl (Mar 20, 2015)

MyraScott said:


> I am curious to know how many sales you attribute to posting in dozens of FB groups? How devastating is this in terms of actual sales?


I concluded that posts to those groups contribute very few sales. Once I tracked clicks. I posted to fifty-six groups, and I got 27 clicks.

And I noted this (100 units per Y division):


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2015)

If we can back up for a moment...

Are the posts DELETED or simply not being shown on the group? There is a big difference here. We all know Facebook has an ridiculous algorithm that only shows your posts to a certain number of people based on activity. Are the posts still showing on your own wall? It may be FB's algorithms at work. I suspect the identical post, cross-posted thirty or forty times, is going to trigger the spam alert...particularly if it isn't getting likes or shares. 

Most of the time when I've heard of FB deleting posts, it has either been the group leader removing posts or simply FB's stupid algorithms hiding them. 

Also, it could be another bug. Earlier this year FB had a bug where tons of posts that included links were being deleted because of a bug error in the preview code that pulls an image from the link to include in the post. FB is also currently having problems with some third-party services and erroneously flagging some links as malicious (there is currently an issue with Tsu where you can't cross post to FB because it thinks the link is malicious.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> If we can back up for a moment...
> 
> Are the posts DELETED or simply not being shown on the group? There is a big difference here. We all know Facebook has an ridiculous algorithm that only shows your posts to a certain number of people based on activity. Are the posts still showing on your own wall? It may be FB's algorithms at work. I suspect the identical post, cross-posted thirty or forty times, is going to trigger the spam alert...particularly if it isn't getting likes or shares.
> 
> ...


No, they're getting emails from Facebook telling them they are banned, and not to post from scheduling services. Or not to post to several groups in one day the same post.

Thanks edited to read FB not the 'zon.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Lisa Grace said:


> No, they're getting emails from Amazon telling them they are banned, and not to post from scheduling services. Or not to post to several groups in one day the same post.


I presume this should be "facebook" not "Amazon"?


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## TheBehrg (Sep 18, 2015)

Monique said:


> I'm assuming all of these groups welcome promotional posts? How effective were those? Every group I've ever been in that allowed self-promo was a noisy spamfest. eta: I don't belong to any that allow it anymore.


My thoughts exactly.


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## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

Lesson learned, don't spam post.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2015)

To recap/clarify some things:

1) No one is being told how much posting is too much
2) FB has a "for sale" option in groups, which makes it seem like they are OK with people using groups to sell things
3) The authors who were banned (myself included) spend TONS of money in ads an boosted posts, so in essence, they are pissing off customers, not forcing them to use more ads, because it's group posting that helps us have enough money to make adds (which often operate at a loss because the royalty on a book share versus FB promoted post conversion just don't level out--it's more used when you are willing to spend more to make the sale because you need the ranking boost)
4) It's NOT spamming. It's people posting book posts to book groups. I know a lot of non-author readers in groups like these and they have told me that is often how they browse for books. They just wait for something that looks good to come up in their feed from a group. I've met some of my most loyal readers through groups like these--the saw my book, bought it, then friend requested me and some have become close FRIENDS of mine, not just readers, but people I hope to meet some day. Also: 1) You can turn off group notifications for groups you are in and only see the posts if you GO to the group 2) You can leave the group if you don't want to see the posts anymore also. Calling this "Spam" is a bit unfair. That's a but like if you went to a book fair where the sole purpose was for authors to read excerpts from their books, and you started doing just that and they told you to leave because you're spamming people. Come on.
5) Sorry, but since a lot of groups I am in are getting LEGIT spam (IE, porn videos and sun glasses) and FB hasn't handled that but is stopping the book posts from being posted, I find it hard to believe that "all spammers are being dealt with"

Ultimately, if people don't want this to be part of their marketing plan, that's fine. But let's not make things up or shame those because they use the tactic.

And you know, however you may feel about it, think about this:
Some of these groups have files that people can update. When this ban happens, the posts and files are being DELETED. Yes, deleted. Completely. Like even the pinned posts. So even if you think these people are spamming (which they aren't) what about the people who AREN'T spamming, who are just in the group to READ, and now files that THEY helped create and contribute to have been deleted because ONE of the contributors were given a ban? Sorry, but as angry as I may get at other authors sometimes, I would NEVER say that a READER deserves to be punished because of their actions, and if you think it's right that FB is blindly doing just that, then you are against the reader in that situation as well.

If you aren't familiar with the group dynamics and the purpose they serve and the way authors and readers often work TOGETHER in these groups, then it may be best to not comment on it. Just sayin. Do what you want, but some of the things said here could actually be construed the wrong way by readers who are lurking these forums and were ALSO affected by FBs actions.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

Actually, I think the paid FB ads are more like spam than are the group posts. With the groups you have to go to the group to read the posts. The paid ads come into my feed whether I want them there or not, and personally, I'm getting tired of seeing them.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Anna Drake said:


> Actually, I think the paid FB ads are more like spam than are the group posts. With the groups you have to go to the group to read the posts. The paid ads come into my feed whether I want them there or not, and personally, I'm getting tired of seeing them.


You need to "train" you FB algo. Don't just ignore stuff you don't want to see. Click the little arrow and say it isn't relevant to you. After a while FB will show stuff more relevant. It learns.


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## AltMe (May 18, 2015)

Sounds to me like its not aimed at authors.

Seems to be a general anti-spam function, probably automated. Post the same message in more than a few places at a time, its automatically spam and is deleted.

I turned all the author groups off. I got sick of seeing the same ad 3 or 4 times in a single scroll. Lately though,FB turned them all on again, and so I had to go turn them all off again.

As much as I wish FB was a useful place to put an ad, I seriously dislike seeing the same thing all over the place. So I'm actually ok with this spam filter.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

You'd think Facebook would leave it to the group admins to manage how they allow spamming.
I agree it's just another way to encourage paid ads on Facebook.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

This is so weird! Why would FB ban posts promoting books on groups that are designed specifically to promote books That is NOT "spam" -- it's the purpose of the site. (e.g. Kindle Author Book Promotion, Indie Author Book Promotion Page -- I mean, the "promotion" is right in the title of the group!) 
Not that much about FB rules make sense --  it's often murky, arbitrary, and ever-changing. 
But this sounds like something FB is doing not to "protect" people from spam (no one is forcing people to look at a Book Promo page, after all) but to "encourage" authors to buy ads from FB. 

DMac


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

DarkarNights said:


> Lesson learned, don't spam post.


What she was doing isn't spamming. She was following the rules of the group (post promos on certain days, etc), so if the group admin allows promos to be posted and an author posts a promo, that is not spamming. If a group admin has clear rules of not posting promos and you post a promo, that's spamming.

She started this thread to warn others that use this strategy (and they're a lot of authors that do this) to be careful, she wasn't asking for opinions on the strategy itself. Of course, this is a discussion thread, and threads take off in other directions, but a debate on that strategy should be on a thread asking about the pros and cons of the strategy versus someone who starts a thread to help others and is now being accused of spamming and questioning the effectiveness of a strategy she is using when she didn't ask for that.

It dissuades people from sharing information like this, if they're going to be called spammers and "why do you care, that doesn't work anyway" type comments.

So even though I don't use this strategy, thank you OP for the warning!


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

writerbee said:


> This is so weird! Why would FB ban posts promoting books on groups that are designed specifically to promote books That is NOT "spam" -- it's the purpose of the site. (e.g. Kindle Author Book Promotion, Indie Author Book Promotion Page -- I mean, the "promotion" is right in the title of the group!)


doesn't make much sense


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

KL_Phelps said:


> doesn't make much sense


They don't make money when you do promote that way.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

TimothyEllis said:


> As much as I wish FB was a useful place to put an ad, I seriously dislike seeing the same thing all over the place. So I'm actually ok with this spam filter.


If ads are set up correctly, you (another author) should never see it. Only those who purchase that type of ebook should see it. Facebook targeting can be done all the way down to an individual, which is why I'm taking Mark Dawson's paid course on effective FB advertising.


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## ArchangelEST (Jan 19, 2015)

I was also banned - last Friday. At first I thought it was just me - getting reported by some random people who didn't like a post or something, but apparently not.

Some of you may know that I help authors promote their books and one part of what I do is by posting in FB groups. And I've always made sure I don't spam and follow all rules of the groups. Each book gets one post in a group and I only post 1-2 books a day. I made sure all the individual rules of the groups were always followed. During 6 months of daily postings I hadn't even been temporarily banned before, and only a few groups removed me - mostly due to my own failure for not noticing rule changes and stuff like that. I'm okay with that, deserved.

But a sudden 14 day ban... man that's harsh.

I get it though.

This is similar to Reddit now.

Reddit allows about 2-3 identical outgoing links in posts without pause before it automatically perma-bans your butt. The only way to advertise on Reddit consistently is to be a contributing member. That means posting quality stuff every day. Official rules say 10 regular posts for each ad. And in Reddit, it also doesn't matter if you only post your stuff in Book sub-reddits. Even if you're actually not allowed to post anything but book links there. Reddit Admins still automatically ban you if you post too many. 

No context awareness.


I get it why Facebook is doing this, but man it's sudden, harsh and takes no context into account. They should leave group spam settings to admins. I mean - in the end it's their group. They should be in control as to what gets posted and what doesn't and what is allowed.


And what's worse I can't even post regular stuff in groups I simply use for chatting about non-related topics. HECK, I CAN'T EVEN POST IN THE GROUP I CREATED! I'M the bloody admin. For crying out loud.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Monique said:


> They don't make money when you do promote that way.


I understand that, but if they allow a groups that states the entire purpose of the group is promotion then they shouldn't ban people for doing just that. They don't want that to happen, they should just shut those groups down.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

KL_Phelps said:


> I understand that, but if they allow a groups that states the entire purpose of the group is promotion then they shouldn't ban people for doing just that. They don't want that to happen, they should just shut those groups down.


I'm sure they will eventually shut those groups down. This is merely the first step.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2015)

Again, FB has ADDED the "FOR SALE" feature to groups.

Why did they do this if they don't want people to sell things in groups?



Also, the ban applies even to people who SPEND MONEY promoting on FB as well as use the groups. I know FB is greedy, but adding the "for sale" option to groups doesn't sound like a company who is against you posting things for sale in groups. Just sayin'

I think FB should post CLEAR, PUBLIC rules on posting. Then people can follow them and FB can just focus on those who don't.

This invisible line thing is ridiculous.

As is making it so people can't post to groups THEY created. Perhaps they could alter their method here. Make the rules clear. Ban links temporarily instead of posts completely. Leave posters to always be able to run the groups they own, even during a ban. Additionally, they should leave up any files that have been edited by multiple people, even if ONE of those people were banned. Etc.

But instead, FB takes all your money and then uses it to pay...oh, wait. Not employees, because these bans are run by robots. Hmmm.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

I've posted in the kindle unlimited groups, and it has given me a bump in pages read. I do about 4 every couple of weeks, but all at the same time. I don't want to spam my friends, so I try to do it late at night. But, like ForeverGirl mentioned, most of the sites have a "for sale" tab. So that's bizarre to me.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Sad to see that this is happening. Personally, I didn't see much of a return on posting in the groups, but I know quite a few authors who do use them. They must see some benefit. I started a group for KU books back when KU first came out and I know I didn't report anyone for spamming. I sure hope none of the members got booted.


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

Alan Petersen said:


> So even though I don't use this strategy, thank you OP for the warning!


You're welcome, Alan.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I'm sure they will eventually shut those groups down. This is merely the first step.


Perhaps, though as Forevergirl said, it does seem odd that they would add a for sale button. I post in several of these groups, especially if I have a promo running(no clue if they've actually helped my numbers in any way), but whoever made the comment that all these groups seem to be writers advertising to others writers...well to an extent that might be true, but as well as being a writer I am a reader and know I've picked up several books I've seen advertised.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2015)

KL_Phelps said:


> Perhaps, though as Forevergirl said, it does seem odd that they would add a for sale button. I post in several of these groups, especially if I have a promo running(no clue if they've actually helped my numbers in any way), but whoever made the comment that all these groups seem to be writers advertising to others writers...well to an extent that might be true, but as well as being a writer I am a reader and know I've picked up several books I've seen advertised.


This is my thinking too! The BEST writers are ALSO readers!  I can tell the difference between a writer who doesn't read and one who does


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## ChristinaGarner (Aug 31, 2011)

Monique said:


> I'm assuming all of these groups welcome promotional posts? How effective were those? Every group I've ever been in that allowed self-promo was a noisy spamfest. eta: I don't belong to any that allow it anymore.


Same here on both counts.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks for the warning, JETaylor.


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## 72117 (Sep 1, 2013)

Thanks for the warning! I've done some posting myself in the past and also hired via Fiverr. I just was there today to hire the person who I've used a few times and most recently with a boxed set in late October (we made the USA Today list at #78. First time for me.) And though I haven't ever tracked the sales to see actual sales, it just one more piece of the promo puzzle I've used for book exposure. And very reasonably priced. Personally for what it's worth, I've used the groups to find books for myself as well as free ones for readers on my author page.


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## ArchangelEST (Jan 19, 2015)

In case someone is wondering, I've tracked some numbers for FB postings.

It all depends on posting your books in the right groups. The standard author/book groups are indeed spam-fests, but you can probably reach 10-20 people with each post you make, and at least 1 post in 3 will get a click on the link if the book is for FREE. Maybe 1 post in 5 if the book is priced. So it's not particularly noticeable click rates or anything - but if you're on a budget, and you bother to do it every now and again, it can help. And if your books are awesome - you can get pretty nice conversion rates.

BUT - if you really want benefit from FB, you post in very specific groups.

Got a horror novel? Find a horror group. Got romance? Find a romance group - and so forth.

You'll get a lot more clicks. And possibly shares. And that's where the money is.

So far. My record is about 1500 clicks from a single post in an authors club, where one person found the book cool, and shared the post in another - more specific group. I can't be sure of the actual end results in terms of sales/downloads, but getting 1500 clicks from essentially 5 seconds of effort and no cost.

Not bad.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

^ agree. I get lots of downloads when I share a free promo in a (large) food fermentation group I'm in.  

Clarity around what is allowed and what is not would be good.


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## HN Wake (Feb 24, 2015)

I had over 1200 downloads on a free promo once and all I did was FB group posts.  I did not find it effective for a discounted book.  Thanks to OP for the warning!


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Are we talking a lot of posts across different groups in the same day? Volume is a pretty obvious trigger.

I would suggest, for anyone doing something like that, to limit to one a day or one every other, and limit the number of groups. Pick a handful of the most relevant, maybe.

It's undoubtedly volume and time-frame that are triggering here, for obvious reasons. That doesn't look organic, like a facebook user decided to post a promo in a relevant group they belong to. It _looks_ like a campaign, and that's what Facebook wants to be paid for.


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## O. N. Stefan (Nov 30, 2009)

This has happened to me a few days ago. I was in the middle of posting a giveaway promotion to the groups that allow this when suddenly I can't post anymore and I get a message saying that my posts are not allowed. I queried Facebook and they said that I was unable to post for 14 days and I could send a complaint which I did but that didn't help. I can only LIKE posts and message people. I can post to my timeline but that's all. It's soooo frustrating. I've posted promos previously without problems. I've noticed that some promos that I get via email to my yahoo account are from more than one person...the from box lists three people or more. I wonder if the companies that are promoting these writers auto change the name of the (from) person as they've been blacklisted too. No point in using the services of a promoter if they can't post either. I wonder how Facebook circumvents their own rules when you do a paid promo?


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## O. N. Stefan (Nov 30, 2009)

I forgot to say that all my posts for that day were gone. Three people actually had replied to the giveaway by answering the question to get a free book. I replied to all of them but only one got through and I sent her a gift e-copy of my book. 
www.getBook.at/B016G5T7AG


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## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

Wow, I think a lot of people are totally not understanding what the definition of spam is. Facebook is not against you posting about your book in a book group. What FB is against is you posting a same post 72 different places in a single day. That is the definition of spam. You want your whatever blasted all over the place like that then buy an ad spot.


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## Kira Barker (Jun 22, 2014)

I've run into this, too -- but only with one account.

I use my main account to promote my thrillers and romance. I've had it for 2 years now and I regularly post status updates, like other posts etc. I'm right now promoting one of my series, always with a picture and text - and no issues so far at all. 50 groups, with the same 6 pictures cycling (I change the text every so often)

I tried doing the same with my alternate account (for the second penname that writes zombie apocalypse horror). I got about 2 days into going about the same routine, only with about 15 groups only (because the others were smut related that I knew from my first account). I added a few more, posted in two of them, and BAM! 14 day ban.
Mind you, the account has been online for weeks only, virtually no posts, then some group activity.

I've since started cross-promoting both lines with my main account, making sure to be generally active on FB not to tip them off. I do my promo posts in the evening (GMT time) and go about it slowly, one group at a time, one picture + text at a time, with cycling. So far FB lets me do that.

Don't know how efficient the FB promos like this are. I had a free short story earlier this week that didn't really do much once I posted it in the free groups. But my novels have all been doing well since my last releases in mid October, and for romance at least it feels like the promo helps to stabilize the all-over kindle ranks. Based on KU borrows, mostly, but still. I'll take my money however I get it.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> What FB is against is you posting a same post 72 different places in a single day. That is the definition of spam.


If those groups are for promotion, that's not spam either, especially if it's a new release or special.

It's not spam, because if you don't like that sort of stuff, you can choose not to be in those groups. Spam is when people repeatedly put stuff in your feed where you can't escape it. Oh, wait... Facebook calls that advertising 

Silliness aside, spam is in the eye of the beholder, but if you want to call it that, those groups are FOR spam. That's their function. People don't have to go to those groups or get their knickers in a knot about their existence. And IMO it's none of Facebook's business what goes on in those groups as long as it doesn't break any national laws.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

JETaylor said:


> I was a member of about 75 groups and I posted the Amazon link to the book along with the Tag line of the book and the release date for 11/10 and the pre-order price of $0.99.


Wow, 75 or 100 sites, that's something.  I'm a member of three li'l ol' FB groups for free ebooks. I advertise my permafrees there about every two or three weeks. Hopefully that's flies under their radar. How does FB contact you or let you know about being banned?


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> If those groups are for promotion, that's not spam either, especially if it's a new release or special.
> 
> It's not spam, because if you don't like that sort of stuff, you can choose not to be in those groups. Spam is when people repeatedly put stuff in your feed where you can't escape it. Oh, wait... Facebook calls that advertising
> 
> Silliness aside, spam is in the eye of the beholder, but if you want to call it that, those groups are FOR spam. That's their function. People don't have to go to those groups or get their knickers in a knot about their existence. And IMO it's none of Facebook's business what goes on in those groups as long as it doesn't break any national laws.


This. That's the sole reason those groups exist and people actually expect to find this type of promo there.


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## Gessert Books (Apr 20, 2015)

It sounds less like FB is making a judgment on the post and more that they are making a judgment on the poster. The mentality is probably that regardless of whether a post like that is considered "spam" within a promo-friendly group, if you're posting 72 promotional posts in short time then you are probably considered a "spammer" in FB's eyes.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

DarkarNights said:


> Wow, I think a lot of people are totally not understanding what the definition of spam is. Facebook is not against you posting about your book in a book group. What FB is against is you posting a same post 72 different places in a single day. That is the definition of spam. You want your whatever blasted all over the place like that then buy an ad spot.


So if you pay Facebook to do the same exact thing, you're no longer a spammer, huh?

No offense, but I don't think you understand what spamming is. And yes, the meaning of spamming depends on the recipient, but just because a person believes it's spam, it doesn't legally make it spam.

All my mailing list subscribers have double opted-in (they confirmed that they wanted to subscribe to my email mailing list). I make it clear when I will email them. And yet I've had folks report my email as spam vs hitting the unsubscribe link. And my email marketing software company that I use (Aweber) has never had an issue with me. So, I don't care what that person thinks, I know I'm not a spammer, even though they clicked on that "spam" link vs the unsubscribe.

Back to this topic. There are 72 groups on Facebook. All of them allow promos to books posted to their group. She posted her promo to those 72 separate groups (following the rules of each group) thus she is not spamming those groups.

Now, I think Patty hit the nail on the head. Facebook as one single entity saw the same message posted 72 times on their site raising their red flags. So perhaps by breaking up those groups promos throughout the week or two might be the best way to go about this type of promo.

It's like sending an email newsletter from your ISP or Gmail versus using a service like Mail Chimp. As long as your subscriber list is legit you can send the same email message to all 1,000 of your subscribers but Gmail limits to sending out 500 emails per day. Your ISP will have similar rules. So you would have to send your promo to 500 subscribers on one day and 500 the next.

So the question is does Facebook have rules about the number of groups that they allow for a person to post the same promotional message in one day?

If she posted the same promotional message to say, five groups every day for a couple weeks, would she have been banned for doing that?

I don't post promos to Facebook groups, so I don't know the answers, but I would look at Facebooks TOS or ask their support about those rules.


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

I space out my group promo posts and have never had a problem. 

I don't consider it SPAM to post promo in groups which are set up for exactly that thing or in other groups when you follow their clearly posted rules about promo. Effectiveness is another story, but I can easily pop in and do the posts throughout the day between other things and it is completely free - so all it costs is a tiny bit of my time.

I've watched my notifications explode when authors go through and post to 75 groups in, like 15 seconds. I think that might trigger a notice by FB.


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## farrago (Oct 29, 2013)

I am not as active on Facebook as probably I need to be. I haven't mastered it. I appreciate likes, but I don't hype for them. I do know that there are services one may use to post books on FB group after FB group and those posts push all other books mentioned down and then the book loops again forty or so minutes later.  I just get out of the way. I make a point of commenting and sharing when my book is on a promoter's FB page and then I'm out of there. I have recently promoted/boosted a couple of posts... for exposure...

IreneP said:  "I've watched my notifications explode when authors go through and post to 75 groups in, like 15 seconds. I think that might trigger a notice by FB."
I agree. When on a FB page, it is polite to engage... not just post and run. It is nice to be reader-centric on FB.  Those book-a-second post are utterly annoying and distracting.
I really appreciate the head's up. I may even reconsider a boosted post. Thanks.


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## nros310 (Jan 13, 2014)

Thank you for the warning! It looks like FB is really keen on selling us those ads 

Update: my author friend, Sue Coletta, had this to add:

"I’ve found if you tweak each promo’s wording, you can get around this rule. It’s when you copy and paste the same ad over and over that you risk being banned. I’ve also spoken with FB about this and they assured me that if each promo is different, I’d be fine."


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

The funny thing - this is only the third time I have done this.  I learned the benefits while I was in a boxed set group - looked for groups that actually had been leveraged in that venue and picked the groups carefully making sure I knew what ones had restriction (promo days only) and which didn't.  Up until this spring, I hadn't leveraged facebook at all for a marketing plan beyond just having my page out there and using boosts every time I had a release.  I did see a bump in sales/ranking when I did the posts.  I didn't have enough data to be able to analyze which groups fared best yet, but it was noticeable the few times I used the strategy.  

I've also found some great books through the groups as well and try to pay it forward.


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## Lizash (Nov 11, 2015)

I've posted to as many as 20 groups over the period of an hour or so, and so far no issues with FB. It's absurd that they restrict posts to groups that want posts. Even more absurd is a situation I face where they refuse to run my 'boost' ads because of sexual content. The most recent refusal was for a blog post where I talked about book promotion--not a bad word or erotic element in the post. I can only assume FB somehow linked my erotic romance books to my name and therefore assumed that whatever I post will have erotic content. I'd appreciate any input about this particular issue with FB boosts.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Certain groups welcome promo posting. Especially in very specific romance sub-genres. Those readers are ravenous and very specific in what flavor of book they like. If you are an active member of the group (i.e. you don't just post promos) it's a good way to develop a following, find beta readers, and get reviews. I know people who use groups very judiciously and get good results. 

My suspicion is that Facebook has caught on that this works. And they want their cut.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

farrago said:


> When on a FB page, it is polite to engage... not just post and run.


I think there's still a lack of understanding of what kind of group we're talking about here. I would say that of the couple dozen Facebook Promo pages I've got on my list, half of them discourage or forbid NON-promo posts.

These are groups whose entire function, literally, is to serve as a place that authors can post freebies/discounts. They DO want what y'all are calling "spam," and they DON'T want chatter. They're a space for ads. Like BookBub, only far less effective.


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## Alastair McDermott (Nov 14, 2015)

It's not spam if it's specifically within the Group's charter to post them.

Sounds like either Facebook have an overzealous algorithm or they're actively trying to push authors into more paid promotion options with FB.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

I think you guys who say this is not spam are missing the point. It _IS_ spam to FB, and that's the only thing that matters. All the rules they have in place are to facilitate the selling of ads. I'm not saying FB is jealous of these groups and wants your money. I'm saying FB must feel these groups have very little value and as such, have determined them to be spam.

I'm blown away at the number of authors I see who think this is some kind of effective marketing plan. Everyday I'm stunned at the things authors do and call it marketing.

I'm sure there's a group somewhere for Ray-Bans too. And I'm sure a few people might stumble in there and find a good deal every now ant then, but the drive-by posting of books is the same thing as the drive-by posting for sunglasses. No one cares about your book unless a) You make them care by offering them value or b) their friends they trust are the ones doing the posting. All you have to do is look at the effectiveness of the "Big Bloggers" who suddenly decide their opinions matter enough to start charging authors money for for "promo space" to see what happens. People stop trusting them and they stop one-clicking based on their recommendations.

But by all means, keep fighting for your right to post there. I'm sure it's worth getting your FB account shut down over it.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Lizash said:


> I've posted to as many as 20 groups over the period of an hour or so, and so far no issues with FB. It's absurd that they restrict posts to groups that want posts. Even more absurd is a situation I face where they refuse to run my 'boost' ads because of sexual content. The most recent refusal was for a blog post where I talked about book promotion--not a bad word or erotic element in the post. I can only assume FB somehow linked my erotic romance books to my name and therefore assumed that whatever I post will have erotic content. I'd appreciate any input about this particular issue with FB boosts.


As far as this goes, look, they don't want anything that can be misconstrued as sexual. End of story. This rule has been in place since the beginning. I run ads for erotic romance books all the time. Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. If they say no, I change the picture, or the copy, and resubmit. It's got nothing to do with you and what you write. It's got everything to do with the rules.

And EDIT to say - if they have marked your account as a "sexual ad" rule-breaker, you can bet you will have this problem for a long time. You DID break the rules at one point, and crossed a line with them. They took notice and they flagged you. Congratulations. Pain in the butt, isn't it? So much easier to do it right the first time.


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## O. N. Stefan (Nov 30, 2009)

You only find out you've been banned when you try to post again and get a message saying that you can't post. So it seems that the tolerance is at 15 posts only now. After than you're banned. Giveaways must be spam too as that's why mine was targeted. Facebook wants you to pay but their paid advertising only brings likes as I've used it numerous times and no sales.


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