# Hit 50 reviews and Amazon promotes your book - fact or fiction?



## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

This is something I'm really curious about and there is even a meme doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment, that everyone is "liking" and swearing is gospel.

Basically I keep hearing that hit 50 reviews and Amazon starts promoting your book. Get to 100 reviews and they practically sprinkle your book with fairy dust and you get to retire. Is it true? I've been reading Let's Get Visible and diving through the threads here and everything seems to point to sales driving more sales (and any Amazon boost) *not* reviews.

Could anyone with more experience chime in? Is there a secret magic number of reviews that makes sales lurch skywards, or is it an urban myth?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if reviews were a small part of some super-sekrit algo that drives the featured list. But, no, this is an urban legend.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

This sort of BS should go and quietly die in a corner. Who even comes up with this stuff?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> This sort of BS should go and quietly die in a corner. Who even comes up with this stuff?


People who sell reviews?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> People who sell reviews?


LOL yes probably.


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## James R Wells (May 21, 2015)

The number of reviews figures into Top Rated ranks in a genre. That makes a lot of sense because it would make no sense for a book with five 5-star reviews to rocket past Wool.

As far as I can tell it's an incremental effect. For instance a book with 100+ reviews at 4.7 will rank higher than a book with 50 reviews at 4.8.

[There are other inputs such weighing of verified purchases and age of reviews]


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

James R Wells said:


> The number of reviews figures into Top Rated ranks in a genre. That makes a lot of sense because it would make no sense for a book with five 5-star reviews to rocket past Wool.
> 
> As far as I can tell it's an incremental effect. For instance a book with 100+ reviews at 4.7 will rank higher than a book with 50 reviews at 4.8.
> 
> [There are other inputs such weighing of verified purchases and age of reviews]


eerrr...

Data? Proof? Where do you get that info?

Cooments, Phoenix?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

He's talking about the Top Rated lists which are based on reviews.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

If I could figure out how to post a pik, I would post the one doing that rounds that has everyone raising a hand and going "preach"...

But here is the text that is going around and making authors chase reviews to get to the magical number of 50:
_After 20-25 reviews, Amazon includes the author's book in "also boughts" and "you might like" lists. This increases its visibility on the site and helps boost sales.

After 50-70 reviews, Amazon highlights the book for spotlight positions and its newsletter._

Now I know the first point is crap, "also boughts" showed up on book a couple of days after release, when it actually had sales and zero reviews. I see other authors in this desperate scrabble to reach the magic number of reviews where they expect sales to take off, propelled by Amazon algorithms.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm not sure I've ever seen a book with no sales get alsobots. Reviews are irrelevant (as far as anyone knows) to those.

To the rest ...


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

If you get 50 organic reviews, odds are you have sold at least 5,000-10,000 copies. I imagine THAT would be a bigger factor.


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## James R Wells (May 21, 2015)

Monique said:


> He's talking about the Top Rated lists which are based on reviews.


Exactly so.

I will provide more info after completing a family item.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

It's not reviews, it's selling the first 50,000 books. When than happens, they call to say congratulations and to ask how you did it. Then you get the name of a special person to talk to when you have problems. That was a couple of years ago and I don't remember who mine is, nor do I know if that is still the mark to hit. As far as actually promoting my books in some way - no, didn't happen that I know of. I suppose if you get a write-up in the newsletter, it might boost sales some.

It's kind of sad how authors keep looking for some magic trick, but I am pretty sure it's money they look at, not reviews. Two of my books have over 300 reviews, but it is continued sales that keeps the ranking low and neither of them stay in the top 100 for long after a promotion. 

No magic trick, just dedication, time, and very hard work.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

James R Wells said:


> Exactly so.
> 
> I will provide more info after completing a family item.


Not familiar with a top rated list.


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## James R Wells (May 21, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Data? Proof? Where do you get that info?


As Monique noted, I am talking about the Top Rated lists by genre. So if place on the list matters to someone, then the number of reviews counts. Here is the list of the 11-20 Top Ranked titles in Hard Science fiction. It will become obvious why I study this list.

#11: 100 rev @4.8, The Sword of Cyrus by JC Ryan
#12: 335 rev @4.6, Call To Arms by Joshua Dalzelle
#13: 468 rev @4.6, Machine World by B.V. Larson
#14: 10,672 rev @4.6, Wool by Hugh Howey
#15: 10,672 rev @4.6, Wool by Hugh Howey (oddly duplicated, different edition?)
#16: 41 rev @4.8, The Great Symmetry by James R Wells
#17: 822 rev @4.5, Perelandra by C.S. Lewis
#18: 467 rev @4.5, Darknet by Matthew Mather
#19: 129 rev @4.7, Nomad at Matthew Mather
#20: 191 rev @4.6, Kobab: Shattered Worlds by Stephen W Bennett

The pattern is pretty clear. I have tried to do the math to figure out the function but I think it's confounded by variables like age of reviews and verified purchases, which I'm not considering. [One apparent anomaly on the list is Nomad which seems like it should be a place or two higher, but the rating is rounded to the nearest tenth so it may be on the shy side of 4.7.]

Linky to this Top Rated list which shows places 1 to 20 and has links to the rest of the Top 100 in that genre: http://www.amazon.com/gp/top-rated/digital-text/158595011/


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

What saddens me is that things like this send authors off in the wrong direction, expending their energy chasing the wrong thing. I see other authors who whole heartedly believe 50 or 100 is the magic number. They waste an enormous amount of effort trying to reach the target (and some are engaged in dubious review exchanges to get there). Personally I'm just using my time/energy to get the next book out. 

It's been a relief to hear from you guys that the number doesn't exist. Although now I want a 50k phone call!


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

*************


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Heard my name, but it looks like all is under control here.
> 
> The only reminder I'll throw out is that there's a whole subset of review ratings we don't have access to but that Amazon is collecting from the devices that ask a reader to rate on-device once the reader reaches the end of a book.
> 
> ...


Whisper her name, and she will come!


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Whisper her name, and she will come!


I said it three times into the mirror. I have a dream of making one of Phoenix's boxed sets...


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Fiction. I have one book with over 300, another with 100 or so. Others with any number in between. No email love. However, it IS true at Audible.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

I had an author tell me this only applied to traditionally published books and that this info came directly from trad pub reps.

No idea if that's true at all. But I definitely know this whole "reviews drive the Amazon algos" thing doesn't apply to books published through KDP.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

I do wonder at what point Amazon considers books for their Kindle Daily Deals emails. I'm not suggesting there is some magic number of reviews or something, but I'm sure they have some set of measures that they use to decide what to promote and what to ignore.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

AliceWE said:


> This is something I'm really curious about and there is even a meme doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment, that everyone is "liking" and swearing is gospel.
> 
> Basically I keep hearing that hit 50 reviews and Amazon starts promoting your book. Get to 100 reviews and they practically sprinkle your book with fairy dust and you get to retire. Is it true? I've been reading Let's Get Visible and diving through the threads here and everything seems to point to sales driving more sales (and any Amazon boost) *not* reviews.
> 
> Could anyone with more experience chime in? Is there a secret magic number of reviews that makes sales lurch skywards, or is it an urban myth?


Absolute codswallop! It is true that the more people view your books, the more likely they are to get into Amazon's mailing list. I can think of no other reason they keep sending me emails urging me to buy my own books! Sales are something else again; they will make Amazon take notice.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I've seen this doing the rounds too. Well, the first comment regarding also-boughts isn't true, so that's not a great start. Like others have said, I suspect there is a correlation between number of reviews, sales momentum, recommendation emails etc but Amazon don't release how they work their magic because once the information is out there, someone will game it.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Everything I've seen to date as a self-publisher tells me that to get any love from Amazon you have to sell a lot first. What "a lot" is, I couldn't tell you, but that's the bottom line. Reviews and all the other stuff are secondary. Amazon wants to promote people who are putting money in its pockets. I don't think it really cares about anything else.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

One of my books has hit 70 reviews on Amazon.UK. I breathlessly await some kind of magical interception that will shoot it into the stratosphere of sales and rankings  .

(Have lost count of the sales, but probably about 30 000)


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## Christine_C (Jun 29, 2014)

AliceWE said:


> This is something I'm really curious about and there is even a meme doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment, that everyone is "liking" and swearing is gospel.
> 
> Basically I keep hearing that hit 50 reviews and Amazon starts promoting your book. Get to 100 reviews and they practically sprinkle your book with fairy dust and you get to retire. Is it true? I've been reading Let's Get Visible and diving through the threads here and everything seems to point to sales driving more sales (and any Amazon boost) *not* reviews.
> 
> Could anyone with more experience chime in? Is there a secret magic number of reviews that makes sales lurch skywards, or is it an urban myth?


I have 56 reviews and can absolutely confirm this is fiction.

I had heard this before from someone in publishing but if anyone is promoting it they're doing it very subtly and ineffectively.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Why would they promote a book with 50 reviews? What if the reviews all said "Do not buy this book - it is rubbish"? It makes no sense.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

It's a lie!! It takes 51 reviews.

Actually, I've not seen any consistent correlation between hitting any review milestone and an increase in sales. Organic reviews come at a pretty constant 1% to 2% of books sold. If you sell 1000, whether it's in one day or one year, you can probably figure on 10-20 reviews. My latest release (Fallen Honor on July 15th) has over 4000 sales and based on complete read through, 2200 borrows, for a combined 6200 downloads. It has 110 reviews, which is 1.77%.


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## going going gone (Jun 4, 2013)

Annie B said:


> If you get 50 organic reviews, odds are you have sold at least 5,000-10,000 copies. I imagine THAT would be a bigger factor.


You always have smart things to say, Annie.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Martitalbott said:


> It's not reviews, it's selling the first 50,000 books. When than happens, they call to say congratulations and to ask how you did it. Then you get the name of a special person to talk to when you have problems. That was a couple of years ago and I don't remember who mine is, nor do I know if that is still the mark to hit. As far as actually promoting my books in some way - no, didn't happen that I know of. I suppose if you get a write-up in the newsletter, it might boost sales some.
> 
> It's kind of sad how authors keep looking for some magic trick, but I am pretty sure it's money they look at, not reviews. Two of my books have over 300 reviews, but it is continued sales that keeps the ranking low and neither of them stay in the top 100 for long after a promotion.
> 
> No magic trick, just dedication, time, and very hard work.


This. Unless you are noticed by an editor of one of Amazon's lines, it takes SALES to garner their attention.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Huh. I didn't know about the best-rated lists.

Oddly, _Nolander _appears at the bottom of the best-rated fantasy > new adult & college list. That strikes me as weird because 1) its rating isn't that high and 2) it's free.

Re the free thing, there's a little link under the price: "(Why is this free?)" If you click, a pop-up explains: "Amazon Bestsellers lists are updated hourly. Between list updates, the price of an item may change from being free to having a price and vice versa. Although the item's price changes immediately, the list and its rankings stay the same until the next hourly update." But _Nolander _has been free for going on two years, so the explanation doesn't pertain.

Re the rating thing, there are a number of books in the Top 100 free in new adult & urban that have higher ratings and way more reviews than _Nolander_.

Dunno. Seems like these lists might be fiddled with, not purely auto-generated.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

What? I now have 55 reviews and Amazon has failed to promote my book. Thanks for the heads up on this! I'm emailing Jeff Bezos right now!


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

You only get the free Amazon promotion if your book gets its fiftieth review on the day of a full moon in a month with "r" in it.  So make sure you time it properly or you miss your opportunity for fame and fortune.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

They do promote your book on the lock screen of Kindle devices if you are a top rated book. They did this for my last book. It was an OK seller for me, not like some of my others. However, the reviews were phenomenal and I had 100 on release day. I don't have a Kindle, so I only saw screenshots from fans. But I think it started about 3 weeks after release and I had screenshots being posted for a couple weeks after. It probably had 200 reviews by then and 4.9 rating. I have no idea if people bought it based on that. How could you ever know? It was nice, anyway. But I never got notice of it. I have a rep. She never mailed to tell me any of this.

I pay expert consultants big bucks to tell me what's up and they say the rankings are a combination of sales velocity, page views, and reviews. But again, they are taking what inside info they get from various sources and extrapolating. So who knows.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

PeanutButterCracker said:


> They do promote your book on the lock screen of Kindle devices if you are a top rated book. They did this for my last book. It was an OK seller for me, not like some of my others. However, the reviews were phenomenal and I had 100 on release day. I don't have a Kindle, so I only saw screenshots from fans. But I think it started about 3 weeks after release and I had screenshots being posted for a couple weeks after. It probably had 200 reviews by then and 4.9 rating. I have no idea if people bought it based on that. How could you ever know? It was nice, anyway. But I never got notice of it. I have a rep. She never mailed to tell me any of this.
> 
> I pay expert consultants big bucks to tell me what's up and they say the rankings are a combination of sales velocity, *page views*, and reviews. But again, they are taking what inside info they get from various sources and extrapolating. So who knows.


Cue for everyone to keep viewing their own books  (but I expect Amazon knows if the views come from the author's server or whatever  )


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## Sandy Raven (Jan 11, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> People who sell reviews?


I agree with this.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Cue for everyone to keep viewing their own books  (but I expect Amazon knows if the views come from the author's server or whatever  )


I think you need thousands, and maybe even tens of thousands, of views for that to have any effect. But what do I know?


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## lamaha (Nov 12, 2011)

This is the meme you are talking about, and I just saw it on Facebook, and came here to see if kboards can confirm this. I didn't think it was true as I am on Also Boughts with only 16 reviews on amazon uk and 7 on amazon us. Tellingly, the lady who says this does book promotions, including reviews, assumedly paid ones.
https://www.facebook.com/BookloverCatlady?ref=stream


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## lamaha (Nov 12, 2011)

Monique said:


> But, no, this is an urban legend.


It's more than an urban legend. This lady is actively spreading this meme on Facebook.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

It's probably a million and 5.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

lamaha said:


> This lady is actively spreading this meme on Facebook.


That's how I saw it a couple of months ago. A number of authors I am friends with were also sharing it, and lamenting how to reach the magic numbers and no doubt rushing to buy her "review generation" service. I figured I would come here & ask, since k-boarders know more about these things!


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

AliceWE said:


> That's how I saw it a couple of months ago. A number of authors I am friends with were also sharing it, and lamenting how to reach the magic numbers and no doubt rushing to buy her "review generation" service. I figured I would come here & ask, since k-boarders know more about these things!


It is always wise to ask before you open your purse. When I first found kdp, someone was spouting that the number of four and five star reviews decided where you were ranked on Amazon. Luckily, a lot of experienced authors told her that was rubbish or I might have been wondering how to find all these reviews. It is this sort of twaddle that makes it easy for people to sell fake reviews and justify people buying them.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

lamaha said:


> This is the meme you are talking about, and I just saw it on Facebook, and came here to see if kboards can confirm this. I didn't think it was true as I am on Also Boughts with only 16 reviews on amazon uk and 7 on amazon us. Tellingly, the lady who says this does book promotions, including reviews, assumedly paid ones.
> https://www.facebook.com/BookloverCatlady?ref=stream


Yeah, she's dead wrong. Selling a product. I'd post a comment correcting her, but I bet it would get hidden in 2 seconds.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Annie B said:


> Yeah, she's dead wrong. Selling a product. I'd post a comment correcting her, but I bet it would get hidden in 2 seconds.


If we all post comments, say five minutes apart, it will keep her busy all day, busy enough so she can't sell her fake reviews. What say you? - Mods, that was a joke but I can't find the smiley faces.


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## JLCarver (Sep 13, 2015)

Deleted


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## lamaha (Nov 12, 2011)

I argued with her on the Book Club site she had posted it on, and she argued back quite vehemently, saying she had spoken to many authors who confirmed this. Luckily she can't delete my arguments as it's not her site. I also posted this link, which I found interesting: http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/2014/12/why-amazon-reviews-just-arent-enough/

Also note that on her own FB page, there are already 7 shares.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

I've tried to tell a couple of people that the magic number of reviews thing is an urban myth, and I've been shot down with, "my friend is a best seller and she KNOWS it's true..."


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

Lydniz said:


> Everything I've seen to date as a self-publisher tells me that to get any love from Amazon you have to sell a lot first. What "a lot" is, I couldn't tell you, but that's the bottom line. Reviews and all the other stuff are secondary. Amazon wants to promote people who are putting money in its pockets. I don't think it really cares about anything else.


Soooo this. I've seen this "number of reviews" myth pop up a lot of places and no one wants to believe it is the sales, not the reviews that drive Amazon.

I think all this started back in the days before everyone was pursuing reviews so aggressively (you know, so Amazon would promote your book.) If you let reviews happen completely organically, it generally takes quite a number of sales for reviews to start adding up. So, I can see how this got started. A couple of authors noticed that when they hit x reviews, Amazon seemed to notice. Well, I'm pretty sure what Amazon actually noticed was all the sales it took to get those reviews.

There are lots of reasons to get reviews, and I'm sure they don't hurt, but there is no "magic number" which activates Amazon's promo algorithms.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

AnnChristy said:


> Also, 50K sales may have been when you got a person once, but not anymore that I'm aware of. Otherwise, a whole lot more people would have gotten calls. Getting a contact there often happens by happenstance, like getting selected for a KDD or something. Or when ACX contacts you to offer to pay for production.


It might be a coincidence, but I got a call a week after I hit 100k paid sales.


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## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

I wish this were true. Sadly, it's not. At least in my experience. What I wouldn't give to have Amazon sprinkle my books with fairy dust!


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## SamuelStokes (Oct 11, 2015)

Lydniz said:


> Everything I've seen to date as a self-publisher tells me that to get any love from Amazon you have to sell a lot first. What "a lot" is, I couldn't tell you, but that's the bottom line. Reviews and all the other stuff are secondary. Amazon wants to promote people who are putting money in its pockets. I don't think it really cares about anything else.


Pretty much the case, I don't think it would really come as a surprise though. They are a for profit company after all.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Lydniz said:


> It might be a coincidence, but I got a call a week after I hit 100k paid sales.


Was that 100,000 sales all of one book, or across your back list?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I was somewhere near 150k sales when I got a rep at Amazon. I think having books in KU helps though, as well. They like to offer promo ops to KU/Select stuff, which I suppose makes sense. I'm not sure it is totally sales based. It probably has to do with sustained sales plus other factors like genre etc.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Across my back list, Cherise.


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## KaylaKrantz (Sep 10, 2016)

I'm also curious about this topic. I've heard many times that this isn't a true fact, that it was a rumor spread by people selling reviews and wishful thinking authors.

At the same time, think that many reviews can help your book in sales simply because people are more likely to buy a book that's been reviewed as opposed to one that has not.

Either way, I plan to try to at least get to 50 reviews and see what all the fuss is about (or if anything happens at all.)


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## AjaxMinoan (Oct 30, 2011)

If this were absolutely true, I have a hard time thinking this wouldn't result in a lot of fake accounts, and people communing with others to review each other's work.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Note that this topic is over a year old.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

KaylaKrantz said:


> I'm also curious about this topic. I've heard many times that this isn't a true fact, that it was a rumor spread by people selling reviews and wishful thinking authors.
> 
> At the same time, think that many reviews can help your book in sales simply because people are more likely to buy a book that's been reviewed as opposed to one that has not.
> 
> Either way, I plan to try to at least get to 50 reviews and see what all the fuss is about (or if anything happens at all.)


Amazon will promote your book when you have sold enough to be high in their rankings. Reviews have nothing to do with it. I for one, never consider reviews before buying a book.


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## JoshuaRobertson (Apr 13, 2017)

And I just came across this post as I hit my 50th review on one of my books for the first time. The fact a Horse-Hockey meme was among this threat took away any despair I may have felt.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

AliceW said:


> What saddens me is that things like this send authors off in the wrong direction, expending their energy chasing the wrong thing. I see other authors who whole heartedly believe 50 or 100 is the magic number. They waste an enormous amount of effort trying to reach the target (and some are engaged in dubious review exchanges to get there). Personally I'm just using my time/energy to get the next book out.
> 
> It's been a relief to hear from you guys that the number doesn't exist. Although now I want a 50k phone call!


This.

If you have 50 reviews, you likely have sold 5,000 copies of your book. THAT -- sales -- is the more likely factor in the algorithm love we all want. Reviews are social proof, it's true, but a great cover, great blurb and great keywords / proper category and of course, a great read, are more important than the number of reviews. The reviews will come if you get sales. You won't get sales unless you have all the rest nailed.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

I don't think it's true. Must be an Amazon Indie Author myth...


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

The reason this myth persists, I think, is that there's a kernel of truth in it. When Amazon's Sales & Marketing folks are looking at books for possible merchandising, they do factor in reviews. But the reviews have to be reasonably proportional to sales, and they have to be meaningful, from what I know. So yes--for both Amazon and Audible, written reviews (not just "I loved it" or "Great book") are one piece of the merchandising decision. But that doesn't mean that if you get 50 or 100 reviews, you'll magically get promoted by Amazon. It means if your book sells very well in Weeks 1 and 2, AND you get a fair number of thoughtful, meaningful reviews, your chances of merchandising are better.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Another dead thread, now shambling about looking for flesh to nibble.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> The reason this myth persists, I think, is that there's a kernel of truth in it. When Amazon's Sales & Marketing folks are looking at books for possible merchandising, they do factor in reviews.


I think Rosalind is right. I think that they do factor in organic reviews when they plan things like admittance to Prime Reads.


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