# Opinion of KDP Select From A Nook Owner



## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

I am a long time lurker but first time posters. I normally browse through KB a couple of times a month to see if I can find any interesting books. But I do read the post in the Writer's Cafe often because the discussion here is fascinating and maybe one day I'll find the time to write a novel myself.

The holiday season took up most of my free time. So, I am out of the loop with what is going on. When I started trolling again I saw a lot of post about KDP Select. There are a lot of opinions out there from an authors standpoint about KDP Select but I thought it would be a good idea to voice an opinion of a Nook Owner.

First off I think it would be a good idea to tell you my buying habits. I tend to buy in bulk from my ebook wish list at BN. I buy once a month because I buy a gift card almost every month and each nookbook you buy is single transaction. Which is annoying when I read my bank statement. That being said, I prefer Amazons search and Also Bought features. So, I shop Amazon and buy BN (most of the time). BN is slowly getting better with their features and I have seen a lot of improvement of the last couple of months.

My preferred genres is contemporary and literary fiction with a nice dose of romance thrown in. As an African American I am always on the look out for new African American Authors to read, that don't write what I like to call "Hood Lit" but Amazon calls "Urban Life". I do write reviews on all major sites, Goodreads, Shelfari (if they ever fix my account), Amazon and BN.

To put it simply I hate KDP Select and think it is a every bad idea, especially for authors that do not write in a popular genre.

Why?

Because today I went to my wishlist and got ready to do my monthly book buy. One of the books that had been sitting on my shelf for months all of the sudden is no longer available. I searched BN looking for an update nookbook and found nothing. I head over to Amazon and the book is there, but the author has decided to put said book in KDP Select. Did I buy the book from Amazon? No, I moved on to the next book and deleted the book from my wish list. The same thing happened with a sample that I downloaded. I deleted the sample.

Name recognition is important for an author and by limiting your distribution channels even for 90 days you are limiting your real estate and name exposure. As an indie/self published author, your amount of real estate is limited already. I can't check your book out at a library or buy it at a physical store (BN, Walmart, Target, etc.). So, if I have a limited amount of funds and am searching Amazon for a book to read and I come across yours. I may head over to BN to look you up, depending on my mood I may either buy the book or throw it on my wishlist. But by opting in to KDP Select that is no longer an option, for us 'others' (Kindle owners). You no longer exist on BN unless you have a hard copy on there.

Now I know that a lot indie authors don't put DRM on their Kindle books but I don't want to have to go through the steps of converting Kindle books to epub. It's simple but its an couple of steps that I don't want to do and I am pretty computer literate.

*What happens if your potential reader is not computer literate or is lazy (like me)?* You lose not only a sell but the ability for a reader to put your book on their wishlist, or download a sample onto their Nook.

I am not going to remember your name or book title and come back in 90 days when your contract is over. There are too many books out there to read and I will just move on to the next. If you don't want my business because I am a Nook Owner (by choice) then there is an author out there that does and my money they will get. They understand the economic of the situation and they also understand that by having their book available at every possible outlet allows them maximum exposure to individual with different buying habits. They are making themselves and their books available to everyone. Not just Kindle owners or Amazon customers.

Now, I know some of your are just putting one book on there.

*But what if that is the one book I want to read?* Again, I won't write down your name and come back later.

*What if I am reading a review on a blog?* Again, a lost sale.

Amazon knows all of this, and they are doing their *best to maximize their market shares*. They know that by having your book only at Amazon they have an excellent marketing opportunity to increase their Prime Membership and hopefully their Kindle sales. The average person looking a Amazon promotion won't be aware that most of the Prime Books are self published. They won't know that major publishing houses are pissed at Amazon for the lending feature. They will think that once they sign up for Prime that they have access to a boat load of from major publishers. That it will be like lending from their local library.

*Are you maximizing your market shares by selling even only one book through amazon alone?*

No. Once the 90 days is over that books has to start fresh at all the other retailers. At the bottom of the book pile. You have no reviews or ratings at other retailer, only at Amazon. If I am sitting at an airport and searching my iPad for something to read at the Apple Store and you book has zero ratings. Do you really think that I am going to select your book over another book that cost about the same price with 12 ratings and a longer sales history?

Before signing on the dotted line, I think you should take a serious look at what that might do to your sales at other vendors. Because even if there are 8 million new Kindle owners this holiday season. Apple, BN, Sony, Kobo (and a lot of smaller manufacturers) also sold a ton of ereaders, they are just not bragging about how many. When I went to Best Buy on Black Friday, at 5am they only had a handful of NST on the shelf. Kindle is not the only ereader in the game.

I am going to stop ranting.

Have a great day.


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## SaraJoEaston (Dec 10, 2011)

Welcome to the KB!  

You've brought up some of my biggest fears about KDP Select. I know it may work for some authors, but I know people who own Nooks and iPads, and I want to reach them as well. So now I'm (im)patiently checking Barnes and Noble to see when Smashwords puts my novel on their site.


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## kurzon (Feb 26, 2011)

Your buying habits match one aspect of mine - if it's a book which isn't from an author I particularly love (and thus a maybe read), it's very very rare for me to keep after it if I can't get it when I go to buy it.  Overpriced or locked by regionality or just not available in ebook when I go to buy it...tends to mean falling off the to-buy list altogether.


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## William Peter Grasso (May 1, 2011)

_"To put it simply I hate KDP Select and think it is a every bad idea, especially for authors that do not write in a popular genre."_

That one sentence, Monique, pretty much nailed my disinterest in KDP Select.

Thanks for your thoughts... 

WPG


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## ericbt (Nov 7, 2010)

When I first received the notice of KDP Select, I read as far as "exclusive" and stopped. I saw no reason to eliminate a large segment of readers simply because they bought a different type of hardware.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Initially I struggled with the notion of Select, Monique. I have 15 titles available in digital format. A few of them do really, really well but there are several that sell maybe 10-20 books a month. At first I thought I would be limiting myself by going with Select but I've changed my mind for the simple reason that I don't sell enough books on the B&N site to make it worth my while.

In October I sold 26 books for Nook and 3,600 for Kindle. In November it was 32 for Nook and 5,400 for Kindle. This month I put four of my titles in the Select program and I've had over 8,000 sales plus over 5,000 free downloads. You want to know how many sales I've had at B&N (for the 10 titles still there)? A whopping 42.

Thanks to the Select Promotion I've seen one of my previously slow-selling books go from 6 sales in November to 212 paid in December. So, you see, for me the choice is easy. I don't know why my books do so badly on B&N but I know that Amazon's marketing tools -- the discussion groups, Also Boughts, and now Select Promotions -- have given my book sales a BIG advantage. I'd be crazy not to take advantage of it.


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## KR Jacobsen (Jul 19, 2011)

It's interesting to get a view of Select from the reader's side, and one that doesn't use a Kindle on top of that. As so many of you have stated already, you had fears about the program and Monique's experience reinforces some of those. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to find that the book you were preparing to buy is now no longer available, despite it being digital and (presumably) having infinite shelf life.

I don't want to turn this into a "bash Select" thread (there's already enough of those), but I am curious to see more reader experiences instead of author experiences, especially those from non-Kindle owners.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the post. You laid out your points quite clearly. It didn't sound "ranty" at all.

B.


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## karencantwell (Jun 17, 2010)

B. Justin Shier said:


> Thanks for the post. You laid out your points quite clearly. It didn't sound "ranty" at all.
> 
> B.


Ditto. I always love hearing from a reader's perspective - we often operate in a vacuum of speculation, so this is very helpful.

Best,

Karen


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> In October I sold 26 books for Nook and 3,600 for Kindle. In November it was 32 for Nook and 5,400 for Kindle. This month I put four of my titles in the Select program and I've had over 8,000 sales plus over 5,000 free downloads. You want to know how many sales I've had at B&N (for the 10 titles still there)? A whopping 42.


I understand that is a problem that some authors have and I completely understand your point of view. BN is a smaller ebook marketplace than Amazon. But I am sure when you first started off your sales weren't great and had to build momentum. It looks like that is what your books are doing now at BN. Each month they are increasing. The spike you had in sales in December aren't surprising your own data points that out. You sold 1,600 more books in October than November. 1.5 times as many books. It seems predictable that you would sale 8,000 this month (a little under 1.5 times as many). Free books always "sale" well. I can tell by looking at the also brought section on BN which books were free at some point just based on what other books are surrounding them. Those 5,000 free downloads is not going to translate into 5,000 sales in the coming months. It's people stuffing their ereaders with books that they might never read.

I for one have become more selective about which books I download for free. Just based on the volume and the amount of time that I have to read. Some of the books I downloaded in the past my never get read.

I am sure this has been stated before in other threads. There is a difference between buying habits based on ereaders. Nook owners tend to prefer "traditionally published book" I fit that stereotype. It's not that I prefer traditionally published books but I prefer a certain amount of professionalism. An unfortunately a lot of indie/self published books don't come off as professional to me based to the cover alone.

I understand that different authors have funding availability. But I do feel that if you publish a book your cover should have a certain professional quality. Readers do judge books by their cover. Just like employers judge applicants by their appearance. You wouldn't show up to a job interview at a bank in sweat pants and sneakers. Your book cover is the first visible thing I notice about you book. It reflects what is on the inside. If it has a bare chest man, I assume it it romance or erotic. If there is blood, I assume it horror/thriller.

That said I am going to give you a bit of constructive criticism even though you didn't ask for it. Just by looking at the covers of your books, they look like historical fiction. But that is all I can gather. They'are sort of generic and tell me nothing. I read the product description on one of them and it's flat. I think the combination of those two are hurting your sales. The two written reviews you have on "The Old Mermaid's Tale" are positive but if I hadn't been responding to your post, I would have never gotten that far. The first two qualifiers (book and product description) are lacking. One of the reviewers felt the same way I did about the product description. If I felt that way and she felt that way, I'm sure other potential readers felt the same.

You are free to do what you want with your books. You have a large number of titles to select from. That gives you more wiggle room.

ETA: I would like to thank everyone for the positive response thus far. I am not trying to scare anyone away from KDP Select. I just wanted to throw my view out there and give you something to think about before you decide (if you haven't already).


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> No. Once the 90 days is over that books has to start fresh at all the other retailers. At the bottom of the book pile. You have no reviews or ratings at other retailer, only at Amazon.


I don't think that you lose any reviews when you unpublish at Barnes & Nobles. All you do is unpublish and can republish by just checking a few items. I doubt anything is gone.

Now this posting is very like a lot of others bashing KDP Select. It covers all of the points brought up before by those authors that don't want to use Select and think everyone else shouldn't either. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was written by an anti-Select author on here and made to seem like it wasn't.

I happen to like Select and have benefited by using it. However, it is up to the individual author whether that author wants to use it. It really depends on the individual circumstances. Select is not for everyone, and I don't care if you use it or not. Actually I would prefer that you didn't since there are already too many free books out there.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

First of all, I too am a Nook owner - by choice. When Select happened I was a bit offended as a reader and when I thought about it as an author there was no question that I wouldn't do it.

I think it is awesome that some people are seeing huge, real success with it and I wish them well, but I couldn't imagine alienating even one reader.

My two novels, Earth and Air, are my labors of love and the week before Select happened I had a reader contact me through Goodreads asking me when Air would be available through Kobo. Now, for these two novels I do get about 90% of my sales from Amazon but in spite of that, what did Amazon want me to tell that reader? "Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a Kindle owner? Well then, you're not important to me." That's how I would take it as a reader and I too would probably never read that author again. Every single reader is important to me, not just the majority.


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## Harry Hanbury (Nov 28, 2011)

A fascinating thread. Like everything else in e-publishing, it's about trying different methods and seeing what works. Typically, what works for some very well impedes the progress of others! What's great about the variety of options available is the freedom to experiment.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Thank you, Monique, for the time you took in your response. To address some of your points:

Yes, I know those 5,000 downloads won't translate into that many sales but it will boost my visibility and each book that gets downloaded gives a new reader the opportunity to sample my work. I have definitely noticed a boost in overall sales after a "free" promotion.

Regarding my covers: I've been a graphic artist for over 30 years and was designing book covers for traditional publishing houses for years before I started my own publishing business. I've gotten a tremendous number of compliments on my covers. Of course I understand that what appeals to one person may not appeal to others -- I expect some people to not find them attractive. It is impossible to please everyone.

Regarding my Product Descriptions: I've experimented a lot with those. Over the years (my Old Mermaid's Tale was first published in 2007) I've had the Product Descriptions re-written several times to reflect the feedback I got from readers. It is an on-going project to tune the descriptions and, like the covers, I realize what appeals to one person may not appeal to another. Again, it is impossible to please everyone.

Because I'm aware that my books do not fit neatly into any particular genre I'm always tinkering around with the descriptions, the web sites, etc. But seeing the explosion in sales following KDP Select Promotions has convinced me to keep trying it. As I said in my previous post, following one Select Promotion (on Arthur's Story) it sold over 200 (paid) copies in a week. It would have taken over a year to sell that many on B&N. I'd be awfully foolish to ignore that.

I appreciate your opinions.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> BN is a smaller ebook marketplace than Amazon. But I am sure when you first started off your sales weren't great and had to build momentum. It looks like that is what your books are doing now at BN.


It depends. Some books just don't seem to gain traction. I have a couple of books that just don't sell much anywhere; therefore I felt there was very little to lose by putting them into the Select program. I might possibly have lost a couple of sales from readers who had them on their "to buy" list, but they've been up quite a while, and if those readers really wanted to buy them, they probably would have done so by now.

On the whole, however, my sales are evenly split between Amazon and B&N, with iTunes growing rapidly, so Select doesn't make sense for most of my books. But everyone should look carefully at his or her own sales patterns before deciding. And your points about possibly losing readers are good ones.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

I am only using KDP Select for the first title, and for only 1, maybe two cycles, depending on how sales go. I don't plan to put anything out thru other distributors until probably after the first year. But at that point, I will not use KDP select.  But for now, it's a great way to get the ball rolling.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Franklin Eddy said:


> Now this posting is very like a lot of others bashing KDP Select. It covers all of the points brought up before by those authors that don't want to use Select and think everyone else shouldn't either. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was written by an anti-Select author on here and made to seem like it wasn't.


No, I am not a writer. I am a reader and a former book blogger. I haven't kept up with the blog in recent years because of I am now working full-time but one of my New Year's Resolutions is to resurrect it.



ShaunaG said:


> First of all, I too am a Nook owner - by choice. When Select happened I was a bit offended as a reader and when I thought about it as an author there was no question that I wouldn't do it.
> 
> I think it is awesome that some people are seeing huge, real success with it and I wish them well, but I couldn't imagine alienating even one reader.
> 
> My two novels, Earth and Air, are my labors of love and the week before Select happened I had a reader contact me through Goodreads asking me when Air would be available through Kobo. Now, for these two novels I do get about 90% of my sales from Amazon but in spite of that, what did Amazon want me to tell that reader? "Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a Kindle owner? Well then, you're not important to me." That's how I would take it as a reader and I too would probably never read that author again. Every single reader is important to me, not just the majority.


Totally agree to everything stated here.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

ShaunaG said:


> Now, for these two novels I do get about 90% of my sales from Amazon but in spite of that, what did Amazon want me to tell that reader? "Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a Kindle owner? Well then, you're not important to me."


I don't think a reader would think you were saying "you're not important to me"! I've never had a potential reader ask for a specific format or outlet. I do get questions about when a few of my digital books will be available in print and I tell them what I am working on there. Honestly, there are so many options available you just have to focus on what seems to be working best for you and stick with it.


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## kea (Jun 13, 2011)

Fascinating thread. Since I just put my first novel up two weeks ago, the KDP question is one I wrestle with daily. I'm seeing all these wonderful numbers from people, but alienating my work from other venues just doesn't sound smart. Then again...there are the numbers. I think I will go to sleep tonight thinking about the OP and Kathleen's post (unless I drink too much to ring in the new year and pass out!)

This thread still has me caught between a rock and a hard place, but I wonder if the answer is something like the stock market. Meaning, do I want the possible immediate returns of day trading, or do I want to go the slower, possibly surer road to payoff...a nice index fund. 'course in this economy...what do we really know anyway? 

Dang...everyone brings up such good points on the pros and cons of KDP. I think I'll wait a while to decide.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Franklin Eddy said:


> I don't think that you lose any reviews when you unpublish at Barnes & Nobles. All you do is unpublish and can republish by just checking a few items. I doubt anything is gone.


How in the world do you know this, Franklin? Have you unpublished your books from B&N.com and republished? Why do you always spout false information without having any facts to support them?



Franklin Eddy said:


> Now this posting is very like a lot of others bashing KDP Select. It covers all of the points brought up before by those authors that don't want to use Select and think everyone else shouldn't either. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was written by an anti-Select author on here and made to seem like it wasn't.


Getting information from a reader like Monique is both rare and priceless. We should be thanking her. But the best you can do is insult her? Man, the nerve of some people.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

I want to add that my books have been available for both Nook and Kindle for well over a year. For most of that time they sold more in print than anything else. It wasn't until August of this year that I started noticing the difference and the gap began to widen. For some reason Amazon just zoomed ahead of everything else and, being the mercenary lout that I am, I started focusing on the market outlet with the highest return.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> I don't think a reader would think you were saying "you're not important to me"! I've never had a potential reader ask for a specific format or outlet. I do get questions about when a few of my digital books will be available in print and I tell them what I am working on there. Honestly, there are so many options available you just have to focus on what seems to be working best for you and stick with it.


I have. I get people asking for Nook, iBooks, Sony, Kobo. I don't sell a ton of books in those places, but like Shauna, I loathe the thought of aliening any of those readers. And some of them do get irritated if they can't get a book in a particular format.

That said, you have sound reasons for choosing Select and I respect that. For myself, the free option is the only thing I'm interested in. When I decide to go free, I'll try the price match game.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I've never had a potential reader ask for a specific format or outlet.


I have. Before I got my books up on B&N, I had more than one reader complain that they wanted to read my books on their Nook but couldn't. Some people do want a specific format. I know I've skipped over buying books I couldn't get in a particular format, too. I just can't be bothered to download apps and all that stuff. Technologically challenged, me!



> Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was written by an anti-Select author on here and made to seem like it wasn't.


Good grief, Franklin, people can disagree with you without being bashers. It's nice of Monique to share her viewpoint, and I for one appreciate it. She's not required to agree with you. Neither is anyone else.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> I don't think a reader would think you were saying "you're not important to me"! I've never had a potential reader ask for a specific format or outlet. I do get questions about when a few of my digital books will be available in print and I tell them what I am working on there. Honestly, there are so many options available you just have to focus on what seems to be working best for you and stick with it.


It actually does.

It is really hard to find books by African American that do not fit the Urban Life category (indie and traditional). When I do come across one, I get excited. Then I head over to B&N to check it out. If it's not there, then I feel that the author doesn't care. They took the time to upload their work to Amazon but couldn't take the same time to upload it to B&N. My business therefore is not important to them.

Like Shauna said a reader asked her when it would be available. But how many readers are thinking the same thing but never ask? The same thing can be said for a physical book.


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

"Funny" how things go : I posted this morning this email to Naomi Lane, whose book excerpt I found at the end of Tara Maya's latest book : "Unfinished Song : Roots "



> Hi Naomi,
> 
> I've found out about your ebook at the end of Tara Maya's Roots book.
> I was ready to buy it, given the cover, the blurb, and Tara's recommandation.
> ...


I hope my frustration didn't pass too much through, but really, BOY was I p****ed off  !

Tara (who I CCed in the mail) replied me, confirming what I had thought : that the excerpt had been included before Naomi chose to put her book in the Select program.

I understand why it happened, why Select may be the best for some of you, but still...

I also have to say that neither Tara nor Naomi have lost me as a customer/reader here, but for sure Naomi has LOST a sale.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

TheSFReader said:


> "Funny" how things go : I posted this morning this email to Naomi Lane, whose book excerpt I found at the end of Tara Maya's latest book : "Unfinished Song : Roots "
> 
> I hope my frustration didn't pass too much through, but really, BOY was I p****ed off  !
> 
> ...


Boy, do I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I'm already limited in huge ways in how, where, and when I can sell books. Wouldn't I love to have Patterson's advantage of having my novels showing in every airport kiosk, every Walmart book shelf, and in huge piles of discounted hardbacks in thousands of Costcos. Who wouldn't be a bestseller with that kind of push?

On the other hand, in none of those cases have I _consciously _limited my audience. In principle, I absolutely want to sell my books at B&N and anywhere else where I can move them. And in the long run, it's not in my best interest to see the indie book market limited to a single bookseller, even if that bookseller has been very good to me so far. I only have one writing career. Amazon has tens of thousands of writers.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Hi Monique! 

I realize this isn't the same scenario, but do you feel the same way when a movie is released on DVD, but you're a Netflix customer and have to wait a few months for it to go through other channels before it's available to you? I think a lot authors see Select in a similar way to movie distribution/release. They're trying to maximize one distribution stream before moving to the next.

One of the unfortunate problems (and you alluded to it above) is that B&N isn't trying to woo authors. They haven't invested in their website's infrastructure and don't reach out to authors. Have you contacted them asking them to do more for indies? To create a better search? Etc? I really do understand your feelings. I feel the same way about B&N as an author. They don't care about me.

PS - Ignore Franklin. It's what I do..


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## mish (Jun 27, 2011)

_Quote from: ShaunaG on Today at 11:57:45 AM
Now, for these two novels I do get about 90% of my sales from Amazon but in spite of that, what did Amazon want me to tell that reader? "Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a Kindle owner? Well then, you're not important to me."_



Kathleen Valentine said:


> I don't think a reader would think you were saying "you're not important to me"! I've never had a potential reader ask for a specific format or outlet.


Actually, I think Shauna nailed it. I currently own a Kindle but my first ereader was a Sony (and I use both now) and I remember what it was like to not be able to get a book I was interested in because it was not available on Smash. And yes, I have asked a some authors about when they would have epub format available. The answers I got were essentially that they didn't have the time or inclination to learn how to format it and were focusing on kindle users. So yeah,_ "Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a Kindle owner? Well then, you're not important to me."_ was pretty much how it felt to me.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

Monique said:


> Hi Monique!
> 
> I realize this isn't the same scenario, but do you feel the same way when a movie is released on DVD, but you're a Netflix customer and have to wait a few months for it to go through other channels before it's available to you? I think a lot authors see Select in a similar way to movie distribution/release. They're trying to maximize one distribution stream before moving to the next.
> 
> ...


Very good points! The DVD comparison is clever, but unfortunately I think for indies the risk of being unavailable for a time isn't the same as being unavailable as a traditionally published, well promoted book. People remember trad books better and wait for paperbacks but the exposure is better. That's something I think about, I can promote my butt off but our market is so saturated that if I make some readers wait to buy my book they're gonna forget and move on. I know whenever my books get added to people's "to read" list on Goodreads, I am just one in thousands. I mean, have you ever checked people's "to read" lists? I dont want to give them any more reasons to skip over my book.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Monique said:


> Hi Monique!
> 
> I realize this isn't the same scenario, but do you feel the same way when a movie is released on DVD, but you're a Netflix customer and have to wait a few months for it to go through other channels before it's available to you? I think a lot authors see Select in a similar way to movie distribution/release. They're trying to maximize one distribution stream before moving to the next.
> 
> ...


I know you were addressing Monique, but I'd like to answer. No, I don't feel the same way about Netflix as I do Select. Not at all. If a movie is released in DVD, I can go buy it or wait for Netflix to pick it up. DVDs work on every DVD player ever made (by territory at least). I know that I can buy it if I'm willing to. But should I have to have two ereaders just so I can pick up Select authors? I am a Nook owner, too. If I hadn't gotten my Kindle Fire last month, many, many of you would be off limits to me. Even so, I don't prefer to read on the Fire, but I can and do. If I hadn't wanted the Fire for other reasons, I wouldn't have a Kindle at all, and I'd be just as annoyed as Monique.

The waiting issue is another problem. Most readers if they find it on Amazon or a blog or somewhere else and can't find it on B&N, they have no idea if the author is going to release it to B&N after 90 days. All they know is it isn't available.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Monique said:


> Hi Monique!
> 
> I realize this isn't the same scenario, but do you feel the same way when a movie is released on DVD, but you're a Netflix customer and have to wait a few months for it to go through other channels before it's available to you? I think a lot authors see Select in a similar way to movie distribution/release. They're trying to maximize one distribution stream before moving to the next.
> 
> ...


No, I don't feel the same why about Netflix and DVDs because I don't care about movies. I watch documentaries and there is no wait. They are already on Netflix. My nephew watches cartoons and they are already there. Besides I don't buy movies (DVD's) I rent them. That's a huge differences.

A better comparisons would be music. People buy music and books. Not to many people buy DVD's anymore, its cheaper to rent.

I listen to several indie musicians and they do not limit their sale channels. I can buy their cds on iTunes, Amazon, eMusic, or any number of internet marketplaces. Sometimes, I can even buy their music in independently owned music stores.

I do have my issues with B&N but I think they are working on some of them. I think because Amazon has been in the game so long, they have a advantage and can address issues faster. But remember, B&N specialty is brick and mortar stores. They are the new kid on the block when it come to e-retail. They are behind the learning curb. There also brought feature has improved, and they have started categorizing  the PubIt! books. I noticed that feature the other day while searching the site. Amazon is a hare. B&N is a tortoise.

I knew that I would get a response like Franklin's.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Deanna Chase said:


> I know you were addressing Monique, but I'd like to answer. No, I don't feel the same way about Netflix as I do Select. Not at all. If a movie is released in DVD, I can go buy it or wait for Netflix to pick it up. DVDs work on every DVD player ever made (by territory at least). I know that I can buy it if I'm willing to. But should I have to have two ereaders just so I can pick up Select authors? I am a Nook owner, too. If I hadn't gotten my Kindle Fire last month, many, many of you would be off limits to me. Even so, I don't prefer to read on the Fire, but I can and do. If I hadn't wanted the Fire for other reasons, I wouldn't have a Kindle at all, and I'd be just as annoyed as Monique.
> 
> The waiting issue is another problem. Most readers if they find it on Amazon or a blog or somewhere else and can't find it on B&N, they have no idea if the author is going to release it to B&N after 90 days. All they know is it isn't available.


I know it's not a perfect analogy, but to extend it. You could buy the book and read the book sold on Amazon without owning a Kindle (using an app) just as you would buy the/rent the DVD even though you really wanted to stream it. I fully realize it's not the same experience and is an inconvenience, but the book isn't available to Kindle owners *only*.

That said, I understand the frustration. Choosing to put your books into Select isn't a no-brainer. It's full of potential pitfalls and there are consequences. It also has a big upside. It's not an easy decision for anyone to make.


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> I am a long time lurker but first time posters. I normally browse through KB a couple of times a month to see if I can find any interesting books. But I do read the post in the Writer's Cafe often because the discussion here is fascinating and maybe one day I'll find the time to write a novel myself.
> 
> The holiday season took up most of my free time. So, I am out of the loop with what is going on. When I started trolling again I saw a lot of post about KDP Select. There are a lot of opinions out there from an authors standpoint about KDP Select but I thought it would be a good idea to voice an opinion of a Nook Owner.
> 
> ...


Well you certainly raised an interesting point here from the perspective of a reader but I disagree with you. I think KB select is a good opportunity for a writer. For one thing Amazon does the promotion instead of the author. You try it for 90 days and see how the book does. If it doesn't do good, you go back to Smashwords and different options so you lost nothing, except 90 days. I think most readers don't care about reviews anyway, not with the option that Digital books have of allowing you to sample books. What good is a book that has a hundred glowing reviews and you read a sample and absolutely hate it? It has happened to me. "The Kids Are Alright" is a prime sample. I detested that book and wouldn't see the movie, yet it got glowing reviews. I buy my books by sampling them. I ignore reviews because you can find quite a few gems out there that only have one review or no reviews at all. I also think most readers don't care if a book is self published or not as long as it's well writtenl and it's not boring. Amazon knows that and that's why they invented this system. You can tell how a book is written by sampling it. I do that with all my books, regardless of who wrote them.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

MoniqueReads said:


> I knew that I would get a response like Franklin's.


Don't worry about him. The rest of us appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Defintely gives us some food for thought regarding alienating potential readers by going exclusive with one ebook retailer.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Monique said:


> I know it's not a perfect analogy, but to extend it. You could buy the book and read the book sold on Amazon without owning a Kindle (using an app) just as you would buy the/rent the DVD even though you really wanted to stream it. I fully realize it's not the same experience and is an inconvenience, but the book isn't available to Kindle owners *only*.
> 
> That said, I understand the frustration. Choosing to put your books into Select isn't a no-brainer. It's full of potential pitfalls and there are consequences. It also has a big upside. It's not an easy decision for anyone to make.


It's true, I could download an app to my computer or phone. But I don't and won't read books on either application. Also I am too lazy to convert files. So my position stands.

For sure Select isn't a no-brainer. I totally understand why authors are trying it out and exploring options. I struggled with it myself, but ultimately decided I just can't do it.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Almost everything in life has disadvantages. Select does. 

The reason for my decision was simple. My main concern is selling my novels and I sell a lot more having chosen to go with Select than I ever did before then. A lot more. Where they buy it isn't my big concern, just making it as easy to find as possible. Amazon did and does that. B&N and Apple don't.

I hope that a lot of authors withdrawing their novels may give B&N and Apple a kick in the pants that they need to treat indie authors a bit more fairly than they have in the past, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edit: I didn't mention it, but thanks for sharing your concerns. It was something I gave a lot of thought, but I felt I simply had to go with the retailer who gave my work the most advantages. I understand that decision disappointing or even angering some readers, but it is hard to regret having gained thousands of new readers. As I said, most decisions have disadvantages. This one did, but I still can't say that I feel that it was wrong for me.


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

Oh, I'm curious...
From you Selecters, do you plan to take your ebooks out from Select once their first 90 days course is finished ? Do you think you'll remember to un-automatically suspend/stop the Select program ?
Do you think you'll have the same urge to push your ebooks to other places ?

Or won't it be much easier to leave the books Select ? especially if the numbers confirm that you've sold truckloads of them ?


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## KVWitten (Apr 11, 2011)

I am also a (Color) Nook owner.  But my son rooted mine and I read Kindle books on it all the time.  

But this is not a Nook vs. Kindle thread.

As a reader, I love the Select program.  All these free books to chose from!  Yes, many of them don't appeal to me but I can always find at least a few things that look interesting.  What's not to love?

Having said that, I think it's a bad program for authors.  

Please note that I am making a distinction between *individual* authors and authors as a whole.  From what I've read, many individual authors have had great results (i.e. more paid sales following the free period).  And I think that's great.  But I think the program will ultimately lead to less money flowing to authors (as a whole).

(I like to think) I'm selective about the free books I've downloaded.  And the vast majority have been solid, well-written books that I've enjoyed reading.  But let's say I've just finished a book by Author A.  Now I have the choice between buying (paying money) for another of his/her books that I know I will probably enjoy.  Or I can pick up another free book and be fairly confident that I'll enjoy it too.

I think the program will condition many readers to search out free books.  

Also, in the past month, I've come across a number of free books that I'd already bought.  (One went free literally the day after I bought it.)  Heck, one author I'd bought two books from in the past has put up about five more as freebies.  Guess what - I downloaded them.  Those are five (paid) sales the author won't be getting in the future.

I could go on but I'm supposed to be at my brother's house in an hour.  (Don't think I'm going to be there on time.   )


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Monique said:


> You could buy the book and read the book sold on Amazon without owning a Kindle (using an app) just as you would buy the/rent the DVD even though you really wanted to stream it. I fully realize it's not the same experience and is an inconvenience, but the book isn't available to Kindle owners *only*.


I was going to say the same thing. In many cases you can also purchase the physical book. I still buy a LOT of physical books when I can get a used copy for a fraction of what the Kindle version costs.

While I've never had a request for a certain format, I have had a lot of requests for paper books from people who don't own any kind of e-reader. Not long ago my novelette *The Reluctant Belsnickel of Opelt's Wood* was being discussed on a Facebook page and several people said they wanted to read it but didn't own an e-reader. So I posted and told them to message me and sent each of them a PDF file of the book so they could print it out. I gave away about 30 copies and I figure the goodwill that bought me contributed to a lot more than earning the royalty would have.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

TheSFReader said:


> Oh, I'm curious...
> From you Selecters, do you plan to take your ebooks out from Select once their first 90 days course is finished ? Do you think you'll remember to un-automatically suspend/stop the Select program ?
> Do you think you'll have the same urge to push your ebooks to other places ?
> 
> Or won't it be much easier to leave the books Select ? especially if the numbers confirm that you've sold truckloads of them ?


I have sold truckloads or at least a heck of a lot more than I would have had I not chosen Select.

I haven't made that decision yet. I honestly don't know. B&N and Apple haven't done anything to tempt me back; that's for sure.

Edit: I went in with the assumption that I would remove them from Select after the 90 days. Now...

It has nothing to do with "easier" though. It has to do with how can I get the most readers and for the moment that is on Amazon. It is going to be a decision I give a lot of thought.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Monique said:


> I know it's not a perfect analogy, but to extend it. You could buy the book and read the book sold on Amazon without owning a Kindle (using an app) just as you would buy the/rent the DVD even though you really wanted to stream it. I fully realize it's not the same experience and is an inconvenience, but the book isn't available to Kindle owners *only*.


There are apps that let you read Kindle books. I can download the Kindle app on my phone or computer. But I don't read books on my phone or computer. I read them either on my ereader or I read a hard copy. Those are the two options.

Now, lets say that I am not tech savy. I don't know anything about Calibre, don't own and iPad (or similar device) and only use my phone for texting, phone calls and to occasional check my FB and email. Your book become unavailable to me.

Even if for only 90 days. Amazon is betting that after 90 days, authors will continue to renew their contract or even add more books to the selection. They know that some others don't do well on other outlets and this seems like a "no-brainer" them. During this time you are losing potential Nook owners, iPad owners, Sony ereader owners, Kobo Owners. You get the point.

I would also like to point out the B&N ebook store is available to other ereader devices. HSN sells two ereaders that connect to B&N. What is the chance that an HSN (who is probably older) will take the time out to learn how to convert a Kindle book to epub?



Beatriz said:


> I think most readers don't care about reviews anyway, not with the option that Digital books have of allowing you to sample books. What good is a book that has a hundred glowing reviews and you read a sample and absolutely hate it? It has happened to me.


Reviews are important to me, especially when taking a chance on an indie/self published author. They are important because some of the reviews will mention important things like grammar. Grammar is not my strong point but I do know when something hasn't been edited and contents poor grammar and spelling. That is one of the reason why I read reviews. If I am on the fence after reading a review I sample. Otherwise I buy.

Amazon does great things for promoting authors, they know. That's why they are making the bet that authors will be willing to jump at the opportunity to join KDP Select and for the most part some have.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

Hi, Monique, and thank you for your detailed and very well presented posts!

Your posts are a great insight into all of this from a reader's perspective. Let's look at a couple of other perspectives, too.

First, from Amazon's pov:

You go to Amazon to shop, then buy at B&N. This is an ironic twist on the people who shop at their local B&N brick-and-mortar store and then buy online at Amazon! I love it!

But what does Amazon get out of it? They provide the store, the shopping experience, the browsing capability, the recommendations...and B&N gets the money. So, what do they do? They try to offer as many exclusives as possible, so that you'll buy from them, for your Kindle, rather than shopping Amazon and buying B&N.

From their perspective, it makes perfect sense to offer books you can't discover at Amazon and run over to buy at B&N.

Now, from the writer's perspective...well, from this writer's perspective, anyway. I don't pretend to speak for all indie writers!

It isn't that you (as a Nook owner and B&N customer) don't matter to me. It's that you don't matter more than any other single reader. All my readers are equal in the esteem I hold for them. So, if I adjust my marketing and lose one group of readers but gain a larger group, that's good for me.

In going with KDP Select, I lose my B&N readers but gain Prime "borrowers". So now the question is, "How many of those borrowers would have been buyers if the borrowing option weren't there?" In other words, what is my actual net gain vs. the net loss of my B&N readers?

In my case, B&N sold x-many copies of my book in the first 11 months of the year. Prime has loaned more than twice as many in a single month. So even if Prime cannibalizes half of my sales, I've still reached as many new readers in one month with Prime as B&N reached in nearly a year.

Why would those lost B&N readers be more important to me than the new Amazon readers? It's Sophie's Choice, but with one child vs. ten.

So, you put it all together and there you are.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> Hi, Monique, and thank you for your detailed and very well presented posts!
> 
> Your posts are a great insight into all of this from a reader's perspective. Let's look at a couple of other perspectives, too.
> 
> ...


Well thought out response, Jan. Thanks for explaining it better than I did.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

Monique, as someone who did not yet opt for the select program, I was happy to see your post.  Best!


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Many of the indie authors choose to publish their books out in e-versions only. The analogy can be extended that they are alienating folk who would prefer to read a book in print or hear it as an audiobook. Will many of these books be translated and offered to non-English-speakers? How many readers are we already alienating?

IMO, the decision of whether to alienate one audience in favor of gaining a larger overall audience elsewhere has to be decided on a book-by-book basis. I value, you, Monique as a potential reader, absolutely. But I also value the higher number of other potential readers that I can get a book in front of for every one of you by going the Select route that I might not reach otherwise. When all else is equal, *in some situations*, honoring a higher number of potential readers over a smaller potential audience just makes good business sense.

I deeply regret losing a sale of my Select book (soon to be books) to you or SFReader; however, should I regret the sales I make to those readers who would never have noticed my new release on Amazon without the push it received through my ability to time its release and its free promotion to the holidays? I can't regret it any more than I can regret a sale I don't make because I don't yet offer my books in print versions. That said, I study the market to see which books of mine and those affiliated with Steel Magnolia Press will be best suited for Select. Certainly not all of them are. As I said, it's a book-by-book decision for us, and one that's being made only after a lot of market research.



TheSFReader said:


> Oh, I'm curious... From you Selecters, do you plan to take your ebooks out from Select once their first 90 days course is finished ? Do you think you'll remember to un-automatically suspend/stop the Select program ? Do you think you'll have the same urge to push your ebooks to other places ? Or won't it be much easier to leave the books Select ? especially if the numbers confirm that you've sold truckloads of them ?


Personally, I'm a business person, not a hobbyist. Why would I forget? I already have plans to leave one book in for a second 90-day period, plans for an SMP book not yet released to absolutely be pulled after 90 days, and am waiting for more sales data to determine the fate of a couple of other books -- and I'm studying the data not just of the books that I have sales figures for but of everyone else posting as well. Again, book-by-book determination.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Jan Strnad said:


> It isn't that you (as a Nook owner and B&N customer) don't matter to me. It's that you don't matter more than any other single reader. All my readers are equal in the esteem I hold for them. So, if I adjust my marketing and lose one group of readers but gain a larger group, that's good for me.


Precisely. To me, outside of my friends, family, and a circle of devoted fans, all readers are equally important. If B&N doesn't want to give me tools to reach a wider readership and Amazon does, wouldn't I be foolish to overlook that? Reaching 100 potential readers on Amazon versus reading 1 potential reader on B&N is the salient point.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> Initially I struggled with the notion of Select, Monique. I have 15 titles available in digital format. A few of them do really, really well but there are several that sell maybe 10-20 books a month. At first I thought I would be limiting myself by going with Select but I've changed my mind for the simple reason that I don't sell enough books on the B&N site to make it worth my while.
> In October I sold 26 books for Nook and 3,600 for Kindle. In November it was 32 for Nook and 5,400 for Kindle. This month I put four of my titles in the Select program and I've had over 8,000 sales plus over 5,000 free downloads. You want to know how many sales I've had at B&N (for the 10 titles still there)? A whopping 42.
> Thanks to the Select Promotion I've seen one of my previously slow-selling books go from 6 sales in November to 212 paid in December. So, you see, for me the choice is easy. I don't know why my books do so badly on B&N but I know that Amazon's marketing tools -- the discussion groups, Also Boughts, and now Select Promotions -- have given my book sales a BIG advantage. I'd be crazy not to take advantage of it.


Hi Monique & all Nook users,
I am anti-DRM, but I do love B&N. I did a 20-city book signing tour at Barnes & Nobles and love their brick and mortar stores and employees. When I am in a town that has one, I go out of my way to buy paperback and hardcover books there. However, even though my hardcover is still available at B&N, I chose to go exclusive with Amazon even before select for my eBooks. Why? Because for every sale I lose at B&N, I make 100 more at Amazon. B&N treats S-P eBooks like unwanted step-children. Sure, you can "buy" the book there, but you yourself said you found out about the book from the search engines, bestseller lists, or also-boughts on Amazon.
There is no chance of a reader discovering a s-p book on B&N's website. They act purely as a distributor. _If _ the customer knows what they want, then they can get it.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> ... but you yourself said you found out about the book from the search engines, bestseller lists, or also-boughts on Amazon. There is no chance of a reader discovering a s-p book on B&N's website. They act purely as a distributor. _If _ the customer knows what they want, then they can get it.


Excellent points, Lisa!


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> Hi, Monique, and thank you for your detailed and very well presented posts!
> 
> Your posts are a great insight into all of this from a reader's perspective. Let's look at a couple of other perspectives, too.
> 
> ...


Very good point.

But by joining KDP Select you don't really gain readers. Those people were already there. Your books was already on Amazon. Your not choosing one child over ten children.

B&N did not tell you "If you want to sale here you can't sell anywhere else?"

What stopped them from buying the book in before it was available in KDP Select?

If my understanding of KDP Select is correct. The only difference is now you have the ability to make your book free of 5 days during the 90 period. And people can rent your book from Amazon, which you still get paid for (an unknown amount).

Your choosing the ability to have an additional avenue to promote on Amazon over making your ebook available on other sites.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Sure, you can "buy" the book there, but you yourself said you found out about the book from the search engines, bestseller lists, or also-boughts on Amazon.
> There is no chance of a reader discovering a s-p book on B&N's website. *They act purely as a distributo*r. _If _ the customer knows what they want, then they can get it.


_But why would you limit your distribution?_


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for offering your perspective, Monique.

I'm not a fan of Barnes & Noble, because as a Non-American they don't allow me to upload my books except via Smashwords. So there may be another reason than KDP Select for a certain book not being available at Barnes & Noble, namely that Barnes & Noble does not accept that author for arbitrary regional reasons.

However, I chose not to enroll any of my books in Select, because Amazon is not exactly friendly to readers who don't have Kindles and to readers who live outside its favoured 19 countries and have to pay the 2 US-dollar surcharge. I have readers who don't own Kindles and readers who live in surcharge countries, so I keep my books available at other retailers like OmniLit/AllRomance or XinXii who offer multiple formats including epub.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> _But why would you limit your distribution?_


Because limiting my distribution put my novel in front of a lot of potential NEW readers. They are new since they never read my novels before whether they're new to Amazon or not.

We need more than a distributor. We need retailers who give us prominent shelf space. Until B&N does that, if they ever do, they are not a distributor whom I will favor.

If I sold candy and one store put my product next to the check-out stand and another put my product at the back of the store in a dark corner where no one was likely to find it, which do you think I would choose? And if the retailer who put my product in the front of the store said he'd only give me that space if I gave him an exclusive, why would I not agree to it?

I understand that this decision made you angry and none of us like angering readers, but sometimes we just have to make the decision we consider best for ourselves as authors and publishers. And if there is a backlash, we have to live with it.

Edit: I honestly think it would be more productive to pressure B&N to treat indie authors better, because from my point-of-view I would be stupid not to put at least some of my novels in KDP Select. But if B&N had something--ANYTHING--on offer, I'd reconsider.


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## davidhburton (Mar 11, 2010)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> B&N treats S-P eBooks like unwanted step-children.


I am not one of the folks who went with Select, simply because my sales at B&N, and particularly Kobo, have always outweighed my Amazon sales. 7:1 for Kobo.

That said, I share this same sentiment about B&N. They do nothing to help PubIt authors. They expect the authors to bring the customers to them.

The Select program certainly has me considering it, but while my sales at Kobo remain as strong as they do, I'll hold for now. But otherwise I would have no allegiance to B&N based on the interactions I've had with them. They really don't seem to care about their author base.

Jan's response, above, is very succinct in regards to readership gain and loss. All of this certainly has me pondering my options.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> _But why would you limit your distribution?_


For every sale I give up from Amazon, I lose a notch on the bestsellers lists there. Being in Prime, I have an additional 4 million potential readers seeing my book on one of a dozen (or more) bestsellers lists. The cross-promotion is fantastic.
Why would I give the visibilty up? If it weren't for the Amazon best seller lists and also-boughts, most readers would never have heard of my books, and I wouldn't have attracted the movie producer who saw my book when it was #1 &#2 on Amazon's teen horror best seller list. (Who, by the way, doesn't own a Kindle and only read the free samples when he contacted me and then I gifted him the two copies and told him how to download them to his laptop using the free Kindle ap.) (Right now my ET lawyer Elaine P. English is writing up the final negotiated changes for a contract for my whole series that will start pre-production immediately.) I wouldn't have two publishers offering me contracts for the paperbacks.
I should give all this up when you can read my novel on your phone, Pc or Nook just by dl'ing an ap? (Which teens have no problem doing.) I have quite a few readers who read it on their Nooks and iPhones, and iPads. I can't help a customer who has options. I don't have options for visibilty. Customers however do have options for reading.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> For every sale I give up from Amazon, I lose a notch on the bestsellers lists there. Being in Prime, I have an additional 4 million potential readers seeing my book on one of a dozen (or more) bestsellers lists. The cross-promotion is fantastic.


Wouldn't you books be on that list regardless?

I can go onto Amazon now and see dozens of bestseller list. I will see books on that list by non-KDP select authors.

Is there a "special" list that only Prime members can see?


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

MoniqueReads said:


> Very good point.
> 
> But by joining KDP Select you don't really gain readers. Those people were already there. Your books was already on Amazon. Your not choosing one child over ten children.
> 
> ...


Yes, exactly. An additional avenue to promote on Amazon is what I get. I'm in the store at $2.99, and I'm available for free to Amazon Prime members (basically, a subscription plan). Two ways to fish the same pond, so to speak. (Not that I'm comparing readers to fish, unless you consider them fish that leap into my net and I entertain them for several hours and then return them to the pond...but that would be silly. Every analogy has its limits!)

My Amazon sales are by no means saturated. Extrapolating from this first month, it would seem that Amazon Prime borrowers outnumber B&N buyers by about 20-to-1. This is a patently unfair comparison because of Christmas, but even if you knock it down by half, that's 10-to-1, or reduce it by 90% and it's 2-to-1.

It's just no contest, in my case. Romance and erotica authors tell a different story but that's how it shakes out for me.

And let's face it, Monique...you weren't going to buy _Risen_ anyway, so you can't take it too personally!


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## Christine Kersey (Feb 13, 2011)

When KDP Select first became available I was reluctant to participate. Though I don't sell nearly as many books on BN as I do on Amazon, and as a nook color owner, I was hesitant to remove any books from BN. But when my sales took a nosedive in mid-December I decided to enroll one book in the program. I immediately saw an increase in sales. Now I sell more books *per day* on Amazon as I ever did in a month at BN. Enrolling my books is a purely business decision. However, I continue to worry about losing even one reader. Most likely, when the 90 days are up I'll unenroll the two books now enrolled in KDP Select.


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## WilliamKing.me (Jul 15, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> _But why would you limit your distribution?_


I am coming at this from a different angle. I just pulled my books from Smashwords (which I really like) for one very simple reason. I saw my latest statement from Barnes and Noble, Apple and others. The sales were tiny compared to what I sell through Amazon. Here's the kicker. W H Smith (the Kobo outlet in the UK) has started discounting my books. For most people this is not important but the bulk of my sales are in the UK. This month it looks like I have lost something like three times as much money (due to reduction of Amazon UK royalties because of price matching) as I made from ALL the outlets serviced by Smashwords. I very strongly doubt I will see a single sale through W H Smith based on Kobo's past performance. At the same time, the one book I had on Kindle Select made it on to a number of bestseller lists. In one day, Kindle Select found me far more readers and made me far more money than 6 months in B&N, Apple and every other non-Amazon outlet combined has. So right now I am going to take advantage of Select. I understand that there are several improvements coming to Smashwords, Kobo and B&N soon so I'll keep an open mind about this and re-evaluate this at the end of the three month period. Long term, I would prefer not to go exclusive with Amazon for any number of reasons, but right now, it seems like the best option for me.

All the best,

Bill


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## Valerie Maarten (Jan 14, 2011)

I'll admit I'm a reluctant hold out when it comes to KDP Select.  When I read the terms the word "exclusivity" didn't appeal to me.  I decided to wait out the first 90 days and see what the participants came back with before I made a decision.  I thank you for your candid POV on this topic.  As Karen mentioned above, we tend to operate in a vacuum, so it's hard to gauge what others think about a subject.  I don't make a lot of sales with B&N, but I like that I still can maintain a presence there and most people who would want to read my books can find me.  I don't know if I'd want to give that up, even if my sales are considered small in comparison to Amazon.  Great thread!


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

WilliamKing.me said:


> W H Smith (the Kobo outlet in the UK) has started discounting my books. For most people this is not important but the bulk of my sales are in the UK. This month it looks like I have lost something like three times as much money (due to reduction of Amazon UK royalties because of price matching) as I made from ALL the outlets serviced by Smashwords.


Yes.

If you want to price at the bare minimum for the 70% royalty ($2.99), it's safer NOT to distribute to Kobo et al. Even if you don't sell a single book at Kobo, if they sale-price it and the Amazon bots price match and Amazon chooses to knock your royalty in half, you're losing money!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> Wouldn't you books be on that list regardless?
> 
> I can go onto Amazon now and see dozens of bestseller list. I will see books on that list by non-KDP select authors.
> 
> Is there a "special" list that only Prime members can see?


If people order it on B&N, that sale is not going to be recorded by Amazon. There is a very good chance I wouldn't be on any bestseller lists at Amazon or B&N if I opened eBook ordering through B&N as B&N only puts Trade books on theirs. B&N's website is terrible for search and indies are not included in most search parameters there. Making my books available there could be the kiss of death. I certainly would not be ranked so high at Amazon if my Nook readers were purchasing it there instead.
Yes, Prime members have the lending library. I gain tons of exposure there, and every borrow counts as a sale. I've had over 128 borrows in the last two weeks. That shows me the visibility from being on Prime is there.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Okay, here is one set of stats. I have a novelette called *Arthur's Story: A Love Story*. It has been on both B&N and Amazon since November 2010. Between November 2010 and November 2011 it sold 137 copies on Amazon and 1 on B&N.

In December I pulled it from B&N and Smashwords and enrolled it in Select. I offered a 2 day free promo on it. Prior to the promo it had sold 6 copies in December for Kindle and 0 for Nook. During the promo it was downloaded 1300 times. Since coming off of being free it has been purchased 232 times and borrowed 11 times.

This means that book is now in front of 1,543 people thanks to Select's excellent promotional opportunities. How many sales do you supposed I missed through B&N in that time?


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## JodyWallace (Mar 29, 2011)

I decided to enroll my new fantasy novella release in KDP Select for several reasons. One, nobody buys my books anywhere, so I don't seem to have readers to lose . Two, it is a brand new release and I don't have to withdraw it from anywhere. Three, I keep hearing folks say their non-Select books are nosediving while their Select book sales are improving. As I have struggled to improve sales this whole year with -- let's just say no results! -- I am willing to try it. Four, I got the answers to a few questions about the KDP contract that satisfied me, or came close enough. 

I doubt, unless the results are out of this world stellar, that I'll stay with Select beyond 90 days. I'm looking at it as more of a staggered release, where I plan to broaden distribution after this single experiment.

I don't think I'm "right" or "wrong" to try this or that folks to do things differently are "right" or "wrong". And I fully acknowledge that any Nookers, Koboers and other non-Kindlers out there who might have been interested in this novella, should they have happened to stumble across it on these other retailers where I get no sales anyway, might be lost sales in these first three months. I guess that's on me. Maybe I'll get reader complaints and never do this again. Considering I get next to no reader feedback as-is, I would welcome complaints as an indication I was finally doing something right re: promo and publicity *heh*.

Good luck to authors in Select and out of Select and readers like Monique looking for interesting books, however they choose to access them.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

I fully appreciate what the reader is saying, however I have tipped my toe in the water with my latest book by uploading and choosing KDP select.

I have probably been on B&N for 4 months now and in that time I have sold 1 book and had 61 free downloads. Someone dropped by and left a 2 star review on the free book without as much as a comment. Hardly a success story and not much to lose if I can gain by joining KDP select. In the same period I have probably sold over 1000 books on Amazon.

B&N is hardly an Indie friendly platform if your book is less than $2.99, then it can't be listed in their top 100.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

U. S. indie authors are losing very little to no sales by going with Select as the only people who will go to B&N to order it are the ones who were going to buy it because they heard about it somewhere else. If at that "somewhere else" you include an Amazon order link (it could be on the name of the book) people click it and order it just as easily. Nook people can and do buy books from Amazon. It is not that hard to download the Kindle ap and then they have even more options.

Like I said, if B&N's website weren't so prejudiced against indies, I'd love to be available there. But they are, and I can't ignore the reality of Amazon being the only channel right now that will treat me like a legitimate author and judge my book only on its sales equal to every other book they cross promote.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

MoniqueReads said:


> *Are you maximizing your market shares by selling even only one book through amazon alone?*


I only have my least-selling book in KDP select, but the answer to your question is a huge yes. All KDP Select has to do is increase my sales by 3% and I've maximized my market share. In a week on KDP Select, I've sold more than all of 2011 combined of this one book.

Is this true for every author? No.
Will it always be true? Probably No.

But right now and for at least the 90 day period I have to commit to, the other two major outlets - Apple and B&N - are not interested in providing a relatively level playing field for discovering independent authors. You said it yourself - you do a lot of your searching on Amazon. Apple and B&N make too much money from catering to the big names.

If I were a Nook owner upset about KDP Select, I would certainly let my favorite authors not published traditionally know, as you have done here. But if I actually wanted to try to have an impact, I'd email Barnes & Noble and ask them to do a better job with the way they handle their browsing/shopping experience, making it not so hard to come across independent authors. If there are enough Nook readers who feel like you, that will make a difference.


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## ETS PRESS (Nov 4, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> That said I am going to give you a bit of constructive criticism even though you didn't ask for it. Just by looking at the covers of your books, they look like historical fiction. But that is all I can gather. They'are sort of generic and tell me nothing. I read the product description on one of them and it's flat. I think the combination of those two are hurting your sales. The two written reviews you have on "The Old Mermaid's Tale" are positive but if I hadn't been responding to your post, I would have never gotten that far. The first two qualifiers (book and product description) are lacking. One of the reviewers felt the same way I did about the product description. If I felt that way and she felt that way, I'm sure other potential readers felt the same.


Is it appropriate for you to criticize an author's cover and description in these forums when the author in question did not request opinions? This looks like a personal attack simply because she did not agree with you about KDP-Select. She was quite gracious about it too. *To Kathleen:* I've been eying _The Old Mermaid's Tale_ for awhile. I just bought it.

I own a Kindle, so as a reader, it means little to me if a book is or is not available on Nook. I read a ton of books, so it works both ways. 1) Every book in the world is not available on Kindle or Nook or in print. 2) Nook has exclusive books as well, including textbook borrowing. 3) There are still tons of book only available in print. 4) There are lots of Kindle and Nook books _not _available in print. 5) For most independent authors, books do not sell well on Nook (not even close). Nook does little to help authors with visibility, and pays authors a smaller royalty. 6) Not everyone owns a Kindle or a Nook. Some people own other ereaders. Some people don't own ereaders at all.

KDP-Select is an _option._ Each author must make their own personal decision as to whether they should participate in the program. It's not permanent, and it's not the end of the world as we know it. If an author chooses to remove books from other vendors, they are doing so with the knowledge that you might not be able to buy their book if you don't own a Kindle. Each author must decide if the payoff is worth it. For some authors, the loss of a few sales on Nook is worth the gain of dozens or even hundreds of sales on Kindle. For other authors, the loss of hundreds of sales on Nook is not worth the gain on Kindle.


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## Jon Olson (Dec 10, 2010)

KR_Jacobsen said:


> It's interesting to get a view of Select from the reader's side, and one that doesn't use a Kindle on top of that. As so many of you have stated already, you had fears about the program and Monique's experience reinforces some of those. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to find that the book you were preparing to buy is now no longer available, despite it being digital and (presumably) having infinite shelf life.
> 
> I don't want to turn this into a "bash Select" thread (there's already enough of those), but I am curious to see more reader experiences instead of author experiences, especially those from non-Kindle owners.


Yeah, good to hear from a reader. These are things I hadn't thought of. I have one book on Select, the other on both. Hope to make your list someday, Monique!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

edwardgtalbot said:


> If I were a Nook owner upset about KDP Select, I would certainly let my favorite authors not published traditionally know, as you have done here. But if I actually wanted to try to have an impact, I'd email Barnes & Noble and ask them to do a better job with the way they handle their browsing/shopping experience, making it not so hard to come across independent authors. If there are enough Nook readers who feel like you, that will make a difference.


I have Nook readers who contact me wondering why it isn't available for the Nook. When I explain, the majority go on to download the Kindle ap to either their Nook phone or laptop and read it that way. My readers have been amazingly supportive and are willing to go the extra step. My goal is to have the paperbacks traditionally published and available everywhere; it has been since I started writing. But I have to work with the cards I've been given and being an unknown, having people find me is the game changer.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

WilliamKing.me said:


> I am coming at this from a different angle. I just pulled my books from Smashwords (which I really like) for one very simple reason. I saw my latest statement from Barnes and Noble, Apple and others. The sales were tiny compared to what I sell through Amazon. Here's the kicker. W H Smith (the Kobo outlet in the UK) has started discounting my books. For most people this is not important but the bulk of my sales are in the UK. This month it looks like I have lost something like three times as much money (due to reduction of Amazon UK royalties because of price matching) as I made from ALL the outlets serviced by Smashwords. ...


I didn't realise that Kobo discounted without permission. Is it just Kobo from the Smashwords distribution partners who does that?

It's a shame, as I really wanted to publish on Kobo because I think they are up & coming in the UK but if they slash your price without your say so then it's too risky to sell through them.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I always thought Kindle would be my best avenue for selling, as it seemed to be for 99% of Indie authors.

But in the end, it's B&N. I enrolled a short story in Select to make it free to introduce the characters of my novel in hopes they would buy it after reading the free short.

I got hundreds of downloads of the short, but no sales of the novel. (Maybe my short story is awful! But I did run it through five critique buddies, all published.)

At the same time, B&N started selling the book at a nice clip, 10-15 per day. Did the B&N people learn about the book via Select and the short? I don't know. It seems odd EVERYONE who liked the short would be a Nook buyer.

But the book (Jinnie Wishmaker) has made it to page 2 of the bestsellers for 9-12 year olds. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s?aref=1550&dref=2207&pub=a&sort=SA&startat=31&store=EBOOK

I can't explain it, but I am definitely glad that the book wasn't tied up in Select, or I would still be at zero Amazon sales, instead of B&N buyers paying for my kids' Christmas presents!


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

ETS PRESS said:


> Is it appropriate for you to criticize an author's cover and description in these forums when the author in question did not request opinions? This looks like a personal attack simply because she did not agree with you about KDP-Select. She was quite gracious about it too.


That was how I took it, too, but sales of that book have been so good this month I'm not too worried.



ETS PRESS said:


> *To Kathleen:* I've been eying _The Old Mermaid's Tale_ for awhile. I just bought it.


Thank you!!! It's been getting a lot of good reviews lately and several readers on an Amazon Discussion forum were talking about it so that helps.I hope you enjoy it and will let me know what you think.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

TexasGirl, your experience demonstrates exactly why there is no one-size-fits-all solution! 

Congratulations on discovering your market!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

ETS PRESS said:


> I own a Kindle, so as a reader, it means little to me if a book is or is not available on Nook. I read a ton of books, so it works both ways. 1) Every book in the world is not available on Kindle or Nook or in print. 2) Nook has exclusive books as well, including textbook borrowing. 3) There are still tons of book only available in print. 4) There are lots of Kindle and Nook books _not _available in print. 5) For most independent authors, books do not sell well on Nook (not even close). Nook does little to help authors with visibility, and pays authors a smaller royalty. 6) Not everyone owns a Kindle or a Nook. Some people own other ereaders. Some people don't own ereaders at all.
> 
> KDP-Select is an _option._ Each author must make their own personal decision as to whether they should participate in the program. It's not permanent, and it's not the end of the world as we know it. If an author chooses to remove books from other vendors, they are doing so with the knowledge that you might not be able to buy their book if you don't own a Kindle. Each author must decide if the payoff is worth it. For some authors, the loss of a few sales on Nook is worth the gain of dozens or even hundreds of sales on Kindle. For other authors, the loss of hundreds of sales on Nook is not worth the gain on Kindle.


LOL, all my eBooks are in my Kindle cloud where I read them currently on my laptop. I just ordered (today with an Amazon gift card) my first ever Kindle (the touch with Wi-Fi and audio) so I didn't even own a Kindle until a few hours ago. My daughter got an iPod in October and she's been reading books on it using the Kindle ap.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> Because limiting my distribution put my novel in front of a lot of potential NEW readers. They are new since they never read my novels before whether they're new to Amazon or not.
> 
> We need more than a distributor. We need retailers who give us prominent shelf space. Until B&N does that, if they ever do, they are not a distributor whom I will favor.
> 
> ...


Exactly my feelings, but J.R. stated better than I could.


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## yomamma (Feb 10, 2011)

I think part of the problem is that books that used to be available to readers on other platforms are not anymore. The book USED to be available to readers on the Nook. Or Kobo. Or Smashwords. And now if someone wants to buy it, you are basically telling them where they have to buy it from.

As businesspeople, of course it makes sense to give Amazon exclusivity for a lot of indies, especially if your sales are smaller on Nook and others. I get that. You are tapping into a new market and you get some cool doodads.

But as a shopper, it's not the same.

This would be like going to Starbucks and trying to get your favorite daily latte. And now they are telling you that you can't buy lattes at _that_ Starbucks - you have to go to the one on the other side of the highway that doesn't have a drive thru. If you want the latte bad enough, you can still buy it! But you have the extra hassle of leaving the Starbucks you are at, getting back in the car, going across the street, and going in to THAT Starbucks.

Or you can get an espresso at the Starbucks you are already at.

And yes, I suck at analogies. And now I want coffee. But my point was that as a shopper, it stinks. I bought a Nook when e-readers first came out and quickly learned that both platforms were not equal. Stuff would be cheaper on Amazon. Books would be offered on Amazon that were not offered on the Nook. Books were FREE on Amazon and not on the Nook. It drove me insane and it made me frustrated at the authors, because now if I wanted to read their books, I had to buy it on one site, strip the DRM, convert it, and then side-load it to my reader. And I bought a Nook simply because I *wanted* the one click purchasing power. If I wanted to do all that converting crap, I'd have stayed with my Sony.

I complained about it long enough that my husband suggested I get a kindle. And I love the kindle. But I'm still bitter about the Nook experience. So I totally get what Monique is saying.


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## WilliamKing.me (Jul 15, 2011)

Zelah Meyer said:


> I didn't realise that Kobo discounted without permission. Is it just Kobo from the Smashwords distribution partners who does that?
> 
> It's a shame, as I really wanted to publish on Kobo because I think they are up & coming in the UK but if they slash your price without your say so then it's too risky to sell through them.


I did not realise this either Zelah. In fact, on the Smashwords site it says Kobo stopped doing this on November 10, 2010. The Kobo/WH Smith deal is quite new so maybe it was a simple mistake. For some reason, it happened to all of my lower priced titles though-- the ones at 99 cents. In the case of some of the novels, it was simply a change in the exchange rate that did it.

All the best,

Bill


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

_*"Writers' Cafe: Come in, grab a cup of coffee and chat with our authors."*_



ETS PRESS said:


> Is it appropriate for you to criticize an author's cover and description in these forums when the author in question did not request opinions? This looks like a personal attack simply because she did not agree with you about KDP-Select. She was quite gracious about it too. *To Kathleen:* I've been eying _The Old Mermaid's Tale_ for awhile. I just bought it.


Personally, I would welcome this form of "personal attack" any day of the week. I might be in the lunatic fringe here, but I actually send out Emails begging readers to "personally attack" every aspect of my novels.

I read Monique's critique as a reader trying to suggest some other possible reasons why an author's books were not selling at a particular venue. I did not personally agree with Monique's assessment of Kathleen's covers (which I think are some of the best indie covers out there), but the critique was certainly germane to the issues being discussed in this thread. Of that, I have no doubt.

I would also urge that we give any reader (and first time poster) to the Kindleboards who is brave enough to engage in a discussion with a bunch of authors the benefit of the doubt. There is a reason that so few readers post in the Writers' Cafe. _This_ is that reason. And if all that does not sway you, do remember that for every author that posts here, there are probably one hundred prospective readers lurking in the wings. They remember how their fellows were treated. Oh yea, and prospective publishers. They lurk here too. They might even commend you on your forum decorum when they offer you a publishing deal. *hint* *hint*

As my mother would say, do mind your table manners when guests are in the house. Zeus, the King of the Gods himself, prefers to enforce Philoxenia.

B.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

I appreciate Monique's posts too. It would be great to get more reader feedback in this forum!


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## mdotterer (Sep 18, 2011)

This is how I feel. While it's true that most of my sales have been on Amazon, I don't want to lose the sales I get through other outlets. And frankly, my 90-day trade for 5 days of promotion while giving my book away free, just doesn't seem rational.

What I think I will do, is put up a short story and run that through KDP select. I've had it up for free at Smashwords, but I can take it down from there. What I'm looking for, is to see if the free story leads to any downloads (or, dare I say, _purchases_) of Shipbuilder.

It's a test.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2011)

Wow. I usually will not wade through more than a page or two of posts, but I read all of these, and was taken by the civility and the various points of view.

I found it interesting that the Pro-Select crowd justifies Select by increased sales. In their minds the short term gains prove their case. But I could just as easily rob banks and argue that I make more money than working for a living. More $ does not justify robbing banks, just as more sales does not justify going along with the conditions required. If writers look at this issue as simply one of the bottom line they fail to see what's involved, and ignore long term results. 

What most Select folks ignore is a) what the OP objects to, with her perspective as a non-Kindle reader, and b) Amazon is clearly using predatory business practice, when they require writers to pull work from their competitors. 

The point here is a simple moral one--should one business prohibit customers from dealing with their competitors? Should they offer the free for every 90 days, and the Lending Library benefit ONLY if the writer goes along with pulling or stopping all business to competitors--noting too that these features, the free/90 and the Lending are features they could and should easily do for indies without requiring exclusivity. Wouldn't that do more to foster Amazon loyalty and support indies?


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

genevieveaclark said:


> Oh, you're talking about Konrath? (Kidding!)


LOL. touché.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

MikeAngel said:


> The point here is a simple moral one--


This part I agree with. The flipside of the moral coin. Is it appropriate for B&N to take more out of an author's pocket and then relegate their books to the backroom, and only have them available if a customer has been lucky enough to find out about the book somewhere else?
Is it moral for B&N to act merely as a distributor and not as a true bookstore to indies?
Is it moral of B&N not to include indies who sell well in their "real" book searches?
Is it moral of B&N to require proprietary DRM when most readers are against it?
I've been reading books on my laptop because Amazon does offer me a free Kindle ap. My daughter can download onto her iPod from my Kindle library and loves it.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Is it moral for B&N to not offer a Nook ap to any one who would like one, for free?
> 
> I've been reading books on my laptop because Amazon does offer me a free Kindle ap. My daughter can download onto her iPod from my Kindle library and loves it.


Just an FYI, Barnes and Nobles does offer a free Nook app. I had it on my old computer and I just found a free one for the iPhone.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> Just an FYI, Barnes and Nobles does offer a free Nook app. I had it on my old computer and I just found a free one for the iPhone.


Good to know. Back in 2009 is the last time I looked.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Is it moral of B&N not to include indies who sell well in their "real" book searches?


Also, I don't know anything about this. I just typed in Paranormal Romance into the B&N search engine under all products. The first six books that came (top matches) up are self-published.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

This all sort of reminds me of when VCRs first came out and there were VHS and Beta machines. People became fiercely loyal to, and defensive of, the type of machine they bought. Soon more and more companies were only making VHS tapes and finally nobody was making Beta tapes any more. The Beta machine owners were outraged but, finally, they had to either buy a VHS or forget about watching tapes.

Then DVD players came along and made both obsolete.........


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> This all sort of reminds me of when VCRs first came out and there were VHS and Beta machines. People became fiercely loyal to, and defensive of, the type of machine they bought. Soon more and more companies were only making VHS tapes and finally nobody was making Beta tapes any more. The Beta machine owners were outraged but, finally, they had to either buy a VHS or forget about watching tapes.
> 
> *Then DVD players came along and made both obsolete.........*


LOL.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, interrupting the beginnings of my New Year's Celebration (it's the New Year somewhere *hic*)  as there have been some personal back forths going on. If anyone has a problem with someone's posts, by all means report it. Let's not derail a thread that many are finding interesting.  I've gone through and edited/removed some posts....

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> Also, I don't know anything about this. I just typed in Paranormal Romance into the B&N search engine under all products. The first six books that came (top matches) up are self-published.


I just went through and did the same thing. The first book, was offered free for awhile (according to the comments). Another comment mentions it wouldn't download right onto the Nook reader ap. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/renegade-wolf-aileen-fish/1104487257?ean=2940012760456&itm=1&usri=paranormal+romance

That's great that indie books are now popping to the top after they go free over there. Hopefully, B&N is starting to include indie books. Back in 2010 when I researched the market, it didn't.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I just went through and did the same thing. The first book, was offered free for awhile (according to the comments). Another comment mentions it wouldn't download right onto the Nook reader ap. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/renegade-wolf-aileen-fish/1104487257?ean=2940012760456&itm=1&usri=paranormal+romance
> 
> That's great that indie books are now popping to the top after they go free over there. Hopefully, B&N is starting to include indie books. Back in 2010 when I researched the market, it didn't.


Yeah, I think they are tweaking things. I just typed in "haunted" and sorted by best sellers and my book lands on page four. The results yielded a good mix of traditional and self-published titles.


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## Alan Ryker (Feb 18, 2011)

Exclusivity isn't immoral. It's amoral.

I bought an XBox 360 instead of a PS3 because I love Halo and don't care about Final Fantasy. And I didn't feel the slightest twinge of guilt or, on the flip side, righteous indignation.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Like the OP I am a reader too and I can understand her dismay that some books are exclusive to Amazon due to their participation in the Select program.

Agreeing to Select is a decision each author has to weigh and determine whether to be exclusive to Amazon for 3 months or not. For some it's an easy decision and for some it is more difficult.

For some authors there are many advantages for joining Select. Better exposure, visibility, more customers, sales, borrows, etc.

I can well understand why she browses books at Amazon and then buys at B&N, since I too find B&N to be not as effective as Amazon in searches. That she bought a Nook was her decision, which is hard to understand since she states she browses on Amazon and then buys on B&N--makes little sense to me.

But, B&N does nothing to spotlight or promote indie books at all. Zilch. They merely serve as a digital warehouse. Searching for indie titles there is exasperating. If I was selling an ebook I would concentrate on the stores that treated me and my product the best. Sorry, I find B&N lacking in that department.

Since she is a B&N customer. maybe she should address her concerns to B&N and maybe they can go from being an indie warehouse to a bookstore (like Amz) that spotlights and promotes indie books.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I totally understand the OP's points. Totally. I hate making my books exclusive to one market. In a perfect world, I would have my books available everywhere.

Unfortunately, I like to eat and buy clothes for my kids. Amazon does this right now. There was a time when B&N was really sending me some nice checks. I'd like to believe they have the power to do this again someday. But they quit spotlighting my book. Now I'm earning almost nothing over there whereas Amazon is paying huge bills like my house payment and car payment and then there's leftovers for shoes for the children.

If B&N started wooing authors over there, and I found some books were no longer available on Amazon I wouldn't be happy because I own a Kindle. But I would understand. I believe this has already happened. Bob Meyer had an exclusive deal with B&N not too long ago. If I had really wanted his book, and didn't want to wait for the exclusive term to be up, I might have thought really hard about my decision to buy a Kindle instead of a Nook. Maybe I would have grumbled and downloaded the free Nook app to read his book on my laptop. Maybe I would have bought a Nook to read some books on, if this happened a lot to me.

Or maybe I would have just gone on to another book I *could* get on my device.

As ereader prices continue to go down, I think you'll find people just buying a Kindle or Nook to get the books they want. In the mean time, it is annoying, but I don't have a solution.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Victorine said:


> As ereader prices continue to go down, I think you'll find people just buying a Kindle or Nook to get the books they want. In the mean time, it is annoying, but I don't have a solution.


This comment made me think of Farhad Manjoo's most recent article.

2011 Was a Terrible Year for Tech 
All our devices got more complicated. And they won't get simpler anytime soon.

The key point he made was:

_"But it's not just that individual products got more difficult to use; in 2011 the entire tech ecosystem descended toward entropy. Devices and services had a harder time playing together, and simply choosing what to use became an occasion for a flowchart. Some of the simplest tech questions-How should I send a text message to a friend? Which video phone service should I use?-are now hopelessly fraught."_

So it's not just B&N and Amazon.

B.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> Yeah, I think they are tweaking things. I just typed in "haunted" and sorted by best sellers and my book lands on page four. The results yielded a good mix of traditional and self-published titles.


But that's because the word "haunted" is in the title of your book. I try to be very careful about tagging my books, and I used the keywords "beauty and the beast" for my SF romance novella, since it's based on the fairytale. However, when I type "beauty and the beast" in the B&N search engine, only books with those exact words in the title show up. At Amazon, my book does come up in the search results -- granted, it's on page 4, but still, someone who was looking for a book involving that trope could find it. At B&N? Forget about it.

I find the discussion here fascinating, because I'm new to a lot of this, but just this one small example shows me that B&N doesn't seem to be doing too much to get our books in front of the readers who might be looking for them.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

ChristinePope said:


> But that's because the word "haunted" is in the title of your book. I try to be very careful about tagging my books, and I used the keywords "beauty and the beast" for my SF romance novella, since it's based on the fairytale. However, when I type "beauty and the beast" in the B&N search engine, only books with those exact words in the title show up. At Amazon, my book does come up in the search results -- granted, it's on page 4, but still, someone who was looking for a book involving that trope could find it. At B&N? Forget about it.
> 
> I find the discussion here fascinating, because I'm new to a lot of this, but just this one small example shows me that B&N doesn't seem to be doing too much to get our books in front of the readers who might be looking for them.


I also typed in "ghost romance" and it shows up on page 7. Tagging is an art on every venue. It's a challenge to figure out how to tag to get work found no matter what you sell. Not so long ago Indie books on B&N weren't showing up at all in a search. Now they are. That in itself is a huge improvement.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Victorine said:


> Now I'm earning almost nothing over there whereas Amazon is paying huge bills like my house payment and car payment and then there's leftovers for shoes for the children.


"There is a certain Buddhistic calm that comes from having money in the bank." ~Tom Robbins


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> I don't think a reader would think you were saying "you're not important to me"! I've never had a potential reader ask for a specific format or outlet.


I've seen that several times, actually. Both format and outlet. Readers still tend to think books are universal. Many don't know an EPUB from a hole in the ground, and just know that they need a book that says it can be read on their brand of reader. If a reader owns a Nook and I say I have published a book, they do get annoyed when they can't buy it. Why should it be available on Kindle, but not Nook? I'm not saying it's fair, but it does feel to them like I am snubbing them. Realistically, I AM saying that I don't care about the sale I would have made to them, and that sentiment, regardless of the business rationale, can feel insulting.

Monique: Thank you for posting on this subject. It needed to be aired from the perspective of a reader. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll say this: I promise my books will be available on the Nook. The exclusivity clause in the KDP Select contract is too offensive to me, regardless of what my decision may mean from a profit perspective.

I will add this: Amazon has no reason to request exclusivity other than their quest to eliminate competitors. Exclusivity hurts authors, it hurts readers, and of course, it hurts competitors. If Amazon were to drop the exclusivity clause, all of this gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair we see related to KDP Select would be over in an instant. Joining KDP Select would truly become a simple business decision rather than a crisis of principle.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

B&N doesn't have the kind of site Amazon has because it didn't have the money to do it. It spent much of 2010 and 2011 trying to sell itself. It failed, but in August 2011 Liberty Media bought about 15% of the company for $204 million. B&N simply didn't have the money to push its site beyond what it did. It is still in trouble and trying to compete against some of the strongest companies on the planet. Apple? Amazon? Google?

I just came back from the local B&N store. The first floor has less than half the number of books it had in the past. They are all on shelves against the wall. The two bestseller and new release tables at the very front have been converted into stations with six tethered Nooks each so people can play with them. It looks exactly like the tables in an Apple store. The circular, tiered book display right inside the front door has been swapped for a Nook kiosk. The rest of the interior space has been converted to selling games, cards, etc. The second and third floors have about 75% of books they had in the past.

The firm is trying very hard to survive, and it appears it is concentrating on Nook and additional gift items. It further looks like its Nook book marketing is focused on established publishers' books. Since they are rational people, I presume they would love to have all the bells and whistles of the Amazon site, and they would be delighted to push independents. But they can't. They don't have the money to do it.

They have done remarkable job of pushing themselves into the eBook market, but they can only push so far. They are doing exactly what independent authors are doing with Select. They are concentrating on the places where they can get the biggest return. I can understand that independents may not be that place.

[Disclaimer: Does this mean no independents do well on B&N? No. It means that the firm can't spend the money Amazon can to make more independents do well.]


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

As a reader and multi-Kindle owner, I only buy books from Amazon. Heck, if it's one I really want, I'll pay money for it at Amazon rather than get it free somewhere else. Why?

Well, first, I've been burned a few times -- book from some other website looks good, but it's formatted badly, or something of that sort. And I'm stuck with it because there's no give backs. Not as big a deal if it was free, I guess, but if I paid money for it I'm not a happy camper. At Amazon I know I have a week to check it out and if the formatting or something isn't satisfactory, I can return it. I LOVE that. I don't have to use it that often, but I really like that it's available.

Related to that: if it was an accidental purchase: I didn't mean to buy _The Book_ by Joe Smith, I meant to buy _The Book_ by John Jones. Again, at Amazon, I can return it. No questions asked.

Second, if I buy it from Amazon, it's stored at Amazon. I don't have to worry about keeping a back up. Yeah, if I bought through, say B&N, they'd store it there, and I could read the book on my phone or tablet, but I can't read it on my Kindle. And I've got several.  I don't have a nook.  I've nothing against the nook; the Simple Touch is a nice reader. I just don't have one and probably won't get one. I admit it's a chicken and egg sort of thing at this point: I don't want to buy a nook because all my books are kindle and I only buy kindle books because I don't have a nook eInk reader.  But Nook didn't exist when I entered the world of eReading. . .and Kindle was the best option for me that was available. Amazon got my business early, and has done nothing to warrant me switching. 

As to other places where there's no DRM, like SmashWords. . . .it's more trouble than I want to go through to download the book to my computer and then sideload or send it to my Kindle. Early on, you _had_ to sideload books from SW. But the really attractive thing about the Kindle was the wireless delivery. Why give that up? So it wasn't an attractive purchasing option for me, so I never got in the habit. Now, at least, you can send it from your computer and have it archived, but, the point is, Amazon has the books I want at a price I'm willing to pay so why should I bother looking elsewhere.

I suppose some will consider that I've drunk the kool-aid. And that I'm falling right into Amazon's trap. Maybe. But I was an Amazon customer way WAY before Kindle came along. They offered what I was looking for when I went looking and the rest, as they say is history.

So: relevant to the discussion. I couldn't care less whether your book is enrolled in KDP select or not. If I decide I want to buy it, all that is important *for me* is that it's on Amazon. As to the Prime Lending aspect. . .at first I wasn't really interested, but I've begun to realize that it's a way to try an author I'm not sure about. Yes, sometimes I don't even want to spend $2.99 on an unknown.  But I can only borrow one a month. . . I'm going to spread those 12 books around, not borrow the same author 12 times. If I pick you, and I like you, I'll probably BUY the others.

And, just to be clear: the above is strictly my opinion. . . .


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I suppose some will consider that I've drunk the kool-aid. And that I'm falling right into Amazon's trap. Maybe. But I was an Amazon customer way WAY before Kindle came along. They offered what I was looking for when I went looking and the rest, as they say is history.
> 
> So: relevant to the discussion. I couldn't care less whether your book is enrolled in KDP select or not. If I decide I want to buy it, all that is important *for me* is that it's on Amazon. As to the Prime Lending aspect. . .at first I wasn't really interested, but I've begun to realize that it's a way to try an author I'm not sure about. Yes, sometimes I don't even want to spend $2.99 on an unknown.  But I can only borrow one a month. . . I'm going to spread those 12 books around, not borrow the same author 12 times. If I pick you, and I like you, I'll probably BUY the others.
> 
> And, just to be clear: the above is strictly my opinion. . . .


Quite eloquently expresses mine, as well. Thank you.


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## Alan Ryker (Feb 18, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But I was an Amazon customer way WAY before Kindle came along.


Me too. I wasn't an early buyer. My first e-reader was the K3, so I had choices. I decided to go with Amazon because it's one of the few retailers I feel positive about. For the vast majority (in all areas), my opinions range from apathy to negative.

A big retailer is usually, at best, a neutral middle man, but I've always had good experiences with Amazon.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

jillmyles said:


> I think part of the problem is that books that used to be available to readers on other platforms are not anymore. The book USED to be available to readers on the Nook. Or Kobo. Or Smashwords. And now if someone wants to buy it, you are basically telling them where they have to buy it from.
> 
> As businesspeople, of course it makes sense to give Amazon exclusivity for a lot of indies, especially if your sales are smaller on Nook and others. I get that. You are tapping into a new market and you get some cool doodads.
> 
> ...


This is the point I am trying to make. I don't think I would have minded so much if as an author you agreed to sell a new release at Amazon exclusively for 90 day or longer. As I have said before you have a right to do what you want with you books. You can sell them where ever you want but consumers have a right to complain, that something that was once available to them is not by the authors decision.

I don't think it will matter to most readers that an indie author has a problem with B&N and the fact that Amazon spotlights their books and B&N does not. In fact, if you read the forum so B&N customers prefer that indie books are separate. This is because when PubIt! came along people flood B&N with public domain books. It was a mess trying to go through it.



Victorine said:


> Unfortunately, I like to eat and buy clothes for my kids. Amazon does this right now. There was a time when B&N was really sending me some nice checks. I'd like to believe they have the power to do this again someday. But they quit spotlighting my book. Now I'm earning almost nothing over there whereas Amazon is paying huge bills like my house payment and car payment and then there's leftovers for shoes for the children.


The fact that an author deserves to get paid for their work is not in debate. In fact, I am one of those people that are don't like 99 cent books. It makes me suspicious of their content and I am much less likely to by them. Because some 99 cent books that I have read in the past lack editing or were just awful. But my view on 99 cent books are purely because s-p/indie authors allowed it to happen. Some even justify that they put out a book lacking editing because they don't have the funds to pay for editing. And this idea has unfortunately tainted a lot of readers to s-p/indie authors. That's why I think authors get reviews, like this book was bad but it was only 99 cent. Or this book was much better than I expected for the price.

People should get paid for their work. But it is to be expected that some readers will be disappointed to learn that so-and-so's book as be taken off B&N (even for 90 days) because Amazon has more customers and that authors are taking their books off other outlets because KDP Selects membership has the potential for greater rewards.


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## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

MikeAngel said:


> What most Select folks ignore is a) what the OP objects to, with her perspective as a non-Kindle reader, and b) Amazon is clearly using predatory business practice, when they require writers to pull work from their competitors.


No author is required to join Select, and be "forced" to do anything. Most anti-Select posters state that there is no benefit to Select...at this point, I don't think anyone can predict the long term benefit or disadvantages of Select. It's all personal opinion, and conjecture. Short term, some of us have seen an advantage, others haven't. It varies so wildly from author to author, that it's almost impossible to apply one experience to another. Not that it's not worth sharing...quite the contrary. However, I haven't learned anything to help me with my writer's journey from the anti-Select crowd. I think we all need to sit back and give this some time. 90 Days...roughly. We're all in this for the long haul, hopefully, and at some point, more of us might find that Select is not their path. Monique's insight is valuable, but perhaps not applicable to everyone right now. As time passes, her insight might be more profound for some of us. Until then, those that stuck didn't go select should continue to inform the Select crowd about the environment at B&N and other e-sellers...maybe it will change. Only time will tell. For the Select crowd, the same applies, and as time passes, they'll be able to collect data and analyze the situation, providing data for the rest. This is a great testing ground, and a fantastic forum to share experiences. I suggest everyone focuses on this aspect, as it this forum's strength. I've learned a lot, and applied many ideas to my own writing career...most with great benefit. However, I've had to sift through a lot of FLUFF to find it. For me, it's worth it.


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## NRWick (Mar 22, 2011)

Is it weird that this thread makes me feel like I'm wasting my time bothering with B&N and Smashwords and I'm not sure if I want to distribute with them any more? It's a fascinating discussion, that's for sure. And while I do understand the OP's frustration on the subject (I had it with Alan Wake being exclusively for X-box, which really chapped my ass), I can't help but look at it from a business point of view. For me, it was better business-wise for me to join select, and I'm starting to think it may be smarter business-wise for me to have everything exclusively on Amazon alone as well. Since march, I have sold 7 ebooks TOTAL from both B&N and Smashwords combined. Times that by 10 and you get what my sales are on Amazon. And with one book in the Select program, it has skyrocketed. Honestly, I'd rather just sell the nook and other reader/pdf versions myself or give them away for free than deal with those two places, it's that unproductive. And if I decide not to stay in the select program, I may do just that.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> if I buy it from Amazon, it's stored at Amazon. I don't have to worry about keeping a back up.


Don't you absolutely LOVE it when you go to buy a book and you get the little message from them "You already bought this on...."

I love that they do that!


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## Sybil Nelson (Jun 24, 2010)

I haven't read all the replies, but I wanted to chime in. 

I, too, am a Nook owner by choice. I love my Nook and can't imagine switching to Kindle.

KDP Select scared me as well, for all of the reasons you have mentioned. I decided to try it with one of my books that wasn't selling very much. It's still not selling very much even after doing the free promotion on Select.

Because I am an African American author who writes on African American topics, KDP select hurts me even more. After this 90 days are up, I will not be doing select any more.


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## Lanie Jordan (Feb 23, 2011)

This was one of the big reasons I've decided against KDP Select, even if Amazon ends up being where I sell the most (so far, I think it is--but not by much, and I've only been selling under 2 weeks). 

There are some awesome readers out there who, if they find a book they love, will do great promoting for it. So even if I sell only a handful of copies to any one retailer, I'm hoping (and I think we all are) to find those types of readers who will help sell stories they love. I really want my stories out there, to as many people as I can get it in front of, and in as many formats as I can make it available in. I love Amazon, and I buy most of my books from them, but I like reading on my iPad, so I typically convert to epub and read through iBooks. But not all readers know how to convert books. I don't want to make extra steps for readers. I want everything to be as easy as it can be.

On the same note, I don't have anything against those who decide to utilize KDP Select. I can see their reasoning, and while I might not agree, I don't think it's necessarily WRONG for them to choose--it's just wrong for me, my goals, and what I hope to accomplish.

But again, I haven't been at this long, so I may have naive or delusionally (new word!) optimistic opinions about selling/promoting.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> B&N doesn't have the kind of site Amazon has because it didn't have the money to do it. It spent much of 2010 and 2011 trying to sell itself. It failed, but in August 2011 Liberty Media bought about 15% of the company for $204 million. B&N simply didn't have the money to push its site beyond what it did. It is still in trouble and trying to compete against some of the strongest companies on the planet. Apple? Amazon? Google?
> 
> The firm is trying very hard to survive, and it appears it is concentrating on Nook and additional gift items.


Yes Terrence and I wish they were more financially sound. The more robust the competition the better it is for readers and authors alike. I like Amazon but I don't want them to have 80% of the ebook business since down the road that would likely curtail the competition which is healthy for readers and authors. But lately I do think they are garnering more sales of Kindles and having the largest supply of ebooks. So the other players will have to up their game or lose market share.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> Don't you absolutely LOVE it when you go to buy a book and you get the little message from them "You already bought this on...."
> 
> I love that they do that!


Gosh yes! I used to buy books and then get them and reallize I already had read them. . .and often hadn't liked them that well and had passed them on or else I'd have found it on my shelves.  Though every now and then a book will be re-released with a new ASIN so you do still have to pay attention. . .but at least there's an easy way for me to search for what I've bought!


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

Sybil Nelson said:


> Because I am an African American author who writes on African American topics, KDP select hurts me even more.


Would you care to elaborate on that? I'm curious.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

So far I have not chosen Kindle Select because I have fans that own a NOOK.  However, I sell better at Amazon...so far.  Perhaps that will change as more people notice my books from more reviews.  I don't feel I am independent if I am under an "exclusive" contract.  However, I agree with Mike Angel.  It is too early to judge which is the better route.  If I am wrong I will say so in the future and change.  I do know Nook is harder to break into...but I am trying. I can advertise on different facebook books for kindle users and get sales.  With Nook pages I don't get as many.  Still, I don't want to alienate any potential readers until it si proven strongly that it makes sense.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

It's purely a business decision.

So far I've sold more books per *hour* with KDP select than I did per month at B&N.

I also gave away 9,800 free copies on Amazon. That's a lot of potential new readers, even if only 1% of them gets around to ever reading it.

I've also had 769 borrows this month. I don't yet know how much that will be worth in strictly financial terms, but it's probably more than I would have made on the 1 or 2 books I was selling each month at B&N.

Yes, it's a short-term decision. To be exact, it's a 90-day decision. Before the end of that 90 days, I'll analyze the results and see if it makes business sense to stay with KDP Select or drop it in favor of rejoining other distributors.

David


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2012)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> This part I agree with. The flipside of the moral coin. Is it appropriate for B&N to take more out of an author's pocket and then relegate their books to the backroom, and only have them available if a customer has been lucky enough to find out about the book somewhere else?
> Is it moral for B&N to act merely as a distributor and not as a true bookstore to indies?
> Is it moral of B&N not to include indies who sell well in their "real" book searches?
> Is it moral of B&N to require proprietary DRM when most readers are against it?
> I've been reading books on my laptop because Amazon does offer me a free Kindle ap. My daughter can download onto her iPod from my Kindle library and loves it.


Justifying bad behavior by other bad behavior does not a moral stance make. The question before us is not B&N's practices but Amazon's Select.


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## Sybil Nelson (Jun 24, 2010)

Jan Strnad said:


> Would you care to elaborate on that? I'm curious.


African Americans are a smaller percentage of the population. They also buy less books. In my opinion, white readers are less likely to buy books with black characters on them. I've had several white reviewers say that they usually don't read books about race but they're happy they took a chance on mine because they enjoyed it. By limiting the places where people can buy my book, I am further limiting an already smaller pool of potential buyers.

If you think I'm making this up, check out how many bestsellers have black people on the cover. I've been trying to get bloggers together to do a Black History Month giveaway hop in which we give away books with black people on the cover. I haven't had a single interested person yet.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Sorry to go off on a rant.


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## eAngelaBenson (Aug 7, 2011)

I very much appreciate the perspective of Monique and the other readers who posted.  

As indie authors, we're business folks and sometimes we make decisions for our business that disadvantage some customers.  We make this decision, not because we hate customers, but because we want to build our business.  Unfortunately, the customer who's been disadvantaged doesn't really care about an indie author building a business.  All they see is they've been disadvantaged.  As business owners we have to accept this perspective as an unintended (but acceptable) consequence of our business decisions. I don't think it's helpful to try to convince the disadvantaged customer that they haven't been disadvantaged.  The better response would be, "I'm sorry, but. . ."

I'm not participating in Select yet, but I'm thinking about it for one of my titles.  Overall, I'm selling better at BN than Amazon but I've only been at this for a couple of months, so I'm not sure why.

Thanks again for an interesting discussion.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

MikeAngel said:


> Justifying bad behavior by other bad behavior does not a moral stance make. The question before us is not B&N's practices but Amazon's Select.


I'm not justifying-- I asked questions. As an indie working on building readership and a fan base, these are all questions I've had to consider on the B&N end of the spectrum and on the Amazon one. I was fiercely loyal to B&N some (especially in Southern states) carry my hardcover.

However, when I examined my goals for my eBooks (your goals may be different) it made sense for me not to DRM and to go with Amazon only. I'm looking to get a traditional paperback book contract and it is more appealing to the trade publishers that my eBooks are up only on Amazon. Less competition.


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## Misfit (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Monique. It's interesting to see the perspective from a buyer.

The pros and cons of KDP select have been thoroughly disected here already (along with for how long the devil will own our soul for signing up) so I'm just going to add one of my own personal thoughts on it. To put it simply, KDP Select offered a tool for promotion that would have taken countless months for unknown authors to achieve on their own. The decision to remove 1 or more books from venues where those books werent selling anyway was really a no-brainer. Is it a risk? Sure. But everything is a risk in the business world, and trying to sell ebooks is no different.

Just my simple 2 cents.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

_I am going to start off with an apology. I just go back from dinner and had a margarita. Since I drink very little that is enough to make me a little bit tipsy. If this makes no sense, I blame the alcohol.
_
I am not a business person but I can see why KDP Select would be a good business decision. If this were my business I would play my hand a little different than what I am seeing happening thus far. What I see happening as of now either one of three things

1) Authors taking all their work off of all other retailer and only using Amazon.
2) Taking one or more works (normally low salers) off of all other retailers and only using Amazon.
3) Not opting in to KDP Select.

Someone post (forgot who) that they put a short story based on their series on KDP Select hoping that would increase sales overall. That to me is a good idea. Gaming companies do this all the time. I play The Sims. EA use to provide special downloads to different retailers depending on where you brought the game. If you brought it at Walmart, you could download an object for the game exclusive only to Walmart. Best Buy had it own object. The same thing for Target and GameStop. But never once did they stop selling the game at other retailer.

Indie/S-P authors have the same option. You could offer a short story (novel, whatever) exclusively through Amazon and even make it a promotion. "Available exclusively through Amazon's Kindle until March 15, 2011". Then you could also offer exclusive content to other ereaders. I can see how it would be set up on an authors website. Why options for readers to get exclusive content (stories) based on their ereader platform. It may or may not increase sales, but I also want limit access to ebooks that were already available.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

MoniqueReads said:


> I understand that is a problem that some authors have and I completely understand your point of view. BN is a smaller ebook marketplace than Amazon. But I am sure when you first started off your sales weren't great and had to build momentum. It looks like that is what your books are doing now at BN. Each month they are increasing.


Hi Monique,
Happy New Year.
I am philosophically with you on most points. but forced to stretch my principles a bit, being in very difficult circumstances.
I was once published by a few good publishers, and my books, while not literary, are of literary quality.
And I would not deny the owner of any device a book of mine that I consider significant--though I am playing around with my mix.
But about Nook: no, I don't see a steady increase. I had good results for one title for two months, and then the book plummeted. My literary books haven't sold at all: possibly just 2 copies in 6 months.
Anyway, possibly I am still new to this game, and salesmanship is simply not in my blood.
All best, and thank you.
Richard


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## yomamma (Feb 10, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> However, when I examined my goals for my eBooks (your goals may be different) it made sense for me not to DRM and to go with Amazon only. I'm looking to get a traditional paperback book contract and it is more appealing to the trade publishers that my eBooks are up only on Amazon. Less competition.


I'm sorry, I keep stopping over this comment. If you are looking for a trad pub contract, how does being exclusive to Amazon factor in? If it's for a book that's already published, it's not a factor at all. You are not 'saving' those markets for republication by not publishing on them. You're simply not available there.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

Like everyone else, I too am thankful for Monique's post. However, as others have also said, this is a business decision, plain and simple. Anyone who makes such decision for any other reason is simply being unrealistic. I don't care for monopolies any more than others. But Amazon has the superior service. Amazon is where I will make the most money. So Amazon is where I will offer my books. If the other stores want my books, they have to do something to make me want to put them there. If customer's don't like that they cannot get a particular book through their preferred vendor, then use another vendor. If I want a Whopper, I don't get mad because I can't buy it at McDonald's. Is it unfortunate that a potential customer is lost because my product is not available elsewhere? Sure. But nobody is preventing that potential customer from buying it from Amazon and then converting it to the reader of their choice, except that potential customer. And be honest, would that customer give up the large sums of money to help you out?  We all love to write. And it's great that we now have a way to potentially earn a living doing what we love. But it is a business. Simple as that. As far as I'm concerned, the complaint should be targeted at B&N, not at the authors.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> This is the point I am trying to make. I don't think I would have minded so much if as an author you agreed to sell a new release at Amazon exclusively for 90 day or longer. As I have said before you have a right to do what you want with you books. You can sell them where ever you want but consumers have a right to complain, that something that was once available to them is not by the authors decision.
> 
> I don't think it will matter to most readers that an indie author has a problem with B&N and the fact that Amazon spotlights their books and B&N does not. In fact, if you read the forum so B&N customers prefer that indie books are separate.


So you and other Nook readers are perfectly happy that B&N makes our novels difficult or impossible to find in searches and excludes them from best seller lists, but expect us to hurt ourselves financially by keeping our books there. Does it not occur to you that this might be just a little unreasonable?

I'm sorry that B&N takes this position but as long as they do, most of my novels will be on Amazon. I hope that B&N loses enough business to wake them up, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## lib2b (Apr 6, 2010)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> IMO, the decision of whether to alienate one audience in favor of gaining a larger overall audience elsewhere has to be decided on a book-by-book basis. I value, you, Monique as a potential reader, absolutely. But I also value the higher number of other potential readers that I can get a book in front of for every one of you by going the Select route that I might not reach otherwise. When all else is equal, *in some situations*, honoring a higher number of potential readers over a smaller potential audience just makes good business


The thing is, authors aren't just losing *potential* readers. This nook user here was already a reader, even a fan, of several authors who post here, but I won't be buying any of their new books unless they're available as epub format from B&N or elsewhere because it really does feel as was stated earlier, the potential of new Kindle readers is more important than this existing nook reader.

As a reader with a non-Kindle device, I don't mind Select used as purely a 90 day early release of books on Amazon if the books then become available in my preferred format elsewhere. I get that the promotional tools offered are great...better than offered elsewhere. But it also seems (and I could totally be wrong), that not nearly as much effort has been spent by authors here in general on reaching readers of other formats/devices. I think one of the more successful authors here got great sales on both Amazon and B&N because ofnefforts she made with search engine optimization and having a strong web presence...not because of any promotional tools offered by Amazon or anywhere else.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> So you and other Nook readers are perfectly happy that B&N makes our novels difficult or impossible to find in searches and excludes them from best seller lists, but expect us to hurt ourselves financially by keeping our books there. Does it not occur to you that this might be just a little unreasonable?
> 
> I'm sorry that B&N takes this position but as long as they do, most of my novels will be on Amazon. I hope that B&N loses enough business to wake them up, but I'm not holding my breath.


The reason why PubIt! are separated into their own section is because of the actions up book uploaders when PubIt! first became available. B&N site was flooded with poorly formatted public domain books. If I wanted to read a public domain book I know where to fine them. In fact, B&N sells them and they are formatted in epub and look great in my reader. Also, the site was flooded with poorly edited books (which has been discussed in this forum several times). Which everyone should know does not sit well with some readers, even on Amazon.

That's one on the main reason that reviews on S-P/Indie books is so important to me. I need to know what I am getting into. Is it edited at all? Does that author have a basic understanding of grammar? Is it written in text speak? How long is it? Reviews tell me that. Even if the book is 99 cent. It's not about the money but about the time that I invest into reading a book, short story, or novella.

Do I read reviews on traditionally published books? Sometimes, depending on how well I know the author and their previous works. If it is a new-to-me author, I do read reviews. I even might glance at the reviewers reviewing history to see if our reading taste match.

The blame goes both ways.

Have you looked at some of the list on Amazon? Some of the highest ranking books are public domain books. Some a few pages back even posted a link about that.


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## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

lib2b said:


> I think one of the more successful authors here got great sales on both Amazon and B&N because off the efforts she made with search engine optimization and having a strong web presence...not because of any promotional tools offered by Amazon or anywhere else.


This is an interesting point. I have always asked myself and others what I could be doing to boost sales on B&N, compared to Amazon. My sales ratio has always been 60 to 1 in favor of Amazon. As a part time writer, I have a limited amount of time to dedicate to marketing. I'm relatively active in terms of a web presence, but this waxes and wanes. I prefer to spend the vast majority of my time writing. Amazon's system gives me the edge I seek in terms of time management. I have been at this for a year, and the sales ratio speaks for itself. I can't conceptualize the amount of time I would have to devote to building up B&N sales, or if it's even possible. I have to admit, that I feel some loyalty to Amazon. They selected my book for a promotion in late November, and the results were spectacular. To contrast...I have sent Pubit three emails over the past year addressing minor issues in formatting and presentation of my novels on their site. No response...ever. As an author, I have the prerogative to choose the best vendor for my book. I pour an incredible amount of time and effort into my writing, and want to select the best vendor possible. Every product deals with this dilemma.

And for those that have decried Amazon's practices as predatory...I don't see anyone pulling their books from Amazon. Why? Business. If you feel that a company or system is engaging in predatory practices, you should not partner with that company. Or, does that not apply when it would be a bad business decision. Happy New Years!


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

MoniqueReads said:


> That's one on the main reason that reviews on S-P/Indie books is so important to me. I need to know what I am getting into. Is it edited at all? Does that author have a basic understanding of grammar? Is it written in text speak? How long is it? Reviews tell me that. Even if the book is 99 cent. It's not about the money but about the time that I invest into reading a book, short story, or novella.


This is one of the reasons I find this conversation so fascinating. One camp of readers vociferously professes how they could care less about reviews, putting authors on DO NOT BUY lists if they choose reviews over product descriptions to promote thier books. Then on the other side, another group of readers depend on them to help sort out the wheat from the chaff. Just goes to show you can't please everyone and that an author is damned either way he plays the game. On that playing field, it makes an author's choices rather simple, doesn't it? _Go where the money is._


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson said:


> Just goes to show you can't please everyone and that an author is damned either way he plays the game. On that playing field, it makes an author's choices rather simple, doesn't it? _Go where the money is._


That's the bottom line.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson said:


> This is one of the reasons I find this conversation so fascinating. One camp of readers vociferously professes how they could care less about reviews, putting authors on DO NOT BUY lists if they choose reviews over product descriptions to promote thier books. Then on the other side, another group of readers depend on them to help sort out the wheat from the chaff.


I don't think I made myself clear.

I do read product description and I hate it when authors put reviews in product descriptions. That is not where I want to read the review and it is annoying when authors uses product description area to put place a review by John Doe in their product. The reviews that I read are provided by the reader in the appropriate place. Amazon, B&N, Smashword, Kobo, and Apple all readers to leave a review and rate a book. This is what I read. Not the review in the product description. No author would ever put a negative review in their product description, they are always positive. That is why I don't read them.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> # 1. The reason why PubIt! are separated into their own section is because of the actions up book uploaders when PubIt! first became available. B&N site was flooded with poorly formatted public domain books.
> 
> #2. The blame goes both ways.
> 
> #3. Have you looked at some of the list on Amazon? Some of the highest ranking books are public domain books. Some a few pages back even posted a link about that.


#1. Good so I guess B&N fixed that problem, I guess. A good store should be able to fix that type of problem--you can't use it as an excuse forever. Still I see no promotions or spotlighting of indie books on B&N. They are merely digitally warehoused. If I was an author I'd sure know which store supported my books and my visibility.

#2. I don't see that. You are too quick to assign blame. I realize B&N doesn't have the expertise or money to really compete head to head with Amazon--but they can be doing better. Again, since you are a loyal B&N customer--why don't you address your concerns to them.

#3. This just occurred with the new Christmas Kindles and all the new readers stocking up on known classic titles. The week before the classics were not ranking high. So an abberation based on millions of new Kindle readers suddenly downloading free classics.

#4. I have little doubt that soon Amazon will offer some indie authors an exclusive deal, trading exclusivity for increased visibility and perks. Each author will have to weigh the plus and minus of the deal.


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## adamelijah (Nov 16, 2010)

You raise a valid point. I have a novel, "Tales of the Dim Knight" that has made into a variety of stories including Sony and Barnes and Noble. Now, I'm not going to pull that from circulation. 

I've used Kindle Select for short stories and article compilations. In addition, I'm making my ebook, All I Needed to Know I Learned from Columbo available on KDP select first.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson said:


> This is one of the reasons I find this conversation so fascinating. One camp of readers vociferously professes how they could care less about reviews, putting authors on DO NOT BUY lists if they choose reviews over product descriptions to promote thier books.


Kevis, if you are talking about the recent discussion where one of our members had a "mini rant" about reviews being where the blurb should be, and no blurb, the OP did NOT say she didn't read reviews, just that she wanted the reviews in the review section and the blurb in the description. Or was there a different discussion?

I read reviews, but they are only one part of my decision making process, and probably the least important part. But I seldom "browse" Amazon but instead go to Amazon already having a book in mind. So I use the reviews to further refine my decision making process.

Betsy


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Kevis, if you are talking about the recent discussion where one of our members had a "mini rant" about reviews being where the blurb should be, and no blurb, the OP did NOT say she didn't read reviews, just that she wanted the reviews in the review section and the blurb in the description. Or was there a different discussion?
> 
> I read reviews, but they are only one part of my decision making process, and probably the least important part. But I seldom "browse" Amazon but instead go to Amazon already having a book in mind. So I use the reviews to further refine my decision making process.
> 
> Betsy


See. That's just part of my problem with this whole issue. I totally agree with readers' frustration with authors using the Product description field to post reviews. That's silly. But they took it one step further and said they scorn having editorial reviews placed above product description and wouldn't buy books from any author where they had to click on the editorial reviews link to gain access to the product description. Again, I agree that its a terrible decision to have the product description buried under reviews and other book information. But that's Amazon's doing, not the authors.

But that's not the issue here. The point I'm making is that authors have always had to make decisions, like any other business person, that satisfies their best interests. It just may be that, for some authors, having the widest distribution net possible won't be part of that strategy. Maybe this is an issue where neither the reader or the author can have their cake and eat it too. Sadly, this does leave the author in an unenviable position of favoring one group of readers over another.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

I am confused.

What do authors want from B&N?

Because I am hearing that B&N does nothing to promote s-p/indie products. B&N doesn't place your books on the bestsellers list. B&N has a category for PubIt! books. That B&N is just a distributor. But isn't that what B&N has always been a distributor. It distributes books in it physical stores, it distributes books online. It's a distributor, that is what stores are.

Kraft Foods, makes it own commercial to promote it products. 
Walgreens makes it own commercials to promote it stores. 
Walgreens doesn't make commercials to promote Kraft Foods. 
Does Kraft Food complain about Walgreens not promoting it products in Walgreen's commericals? No.

It seems to me that what some of you want is for B&N to be your publisher or at the very least your book promoter. Which it is not. If a B&N customer wants a s-p/indie book they know where to find it. I do it all the time. It's pretty easy.

This sort of reminds me of the separate section of black books. Where some people complain that black books should be on the regular shelves. Some want black books in a separate section because it makes it easier to find them instead of having to search the store. In the end, its the book store (i.e distributors) decision to place the books based on customer preference.

Maybe I am confused and don't understand what indie publishing is all about or how it works. But I thought that by making the decision to go the s-p/indie route you understood that most of the responsibility to get the book to the reader was on the authors shoulders. Now, I am hearing that you want the book distributors (Kobo, Apple, B&N, Smashword) to do it for you?

Or did I just get this all wrong?

*ETA: * I just checked out B&N Top 100 books and guess what I found. S-P/Indie Books.


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## adamelijah (Nov 16, 2010)

Monique,

I don't think B&N is wrong, but they simply don't do as much for us as authors as Amazon, and there are more readers for Indie books on Kindle because there are more Kindles sold, and Amazon makes it easier to promote our books. I also think that (as a rule), Nook readers are looking for more traditional books like they'd fine in a Barnes and Noble store. 

I've tried to promote the Nook version of my book and it's been frustrating. I've really only seen a few sales. There's a Nookboards.com website and it's a lost less active than this site here. I have a job and a life and the time I spend is going to be best spent where I'm going to effectively reach the most readers.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> I am confused.
> 
> What do authors want from B&N?
> 
> ...


B&N has always been a bookstore. Even they will tell you they are a bookstore. If I Google "bookstore" the first 7 listings are for B&N. If I Google "book distributors" I get Bookmasters. So I think they are a bookstore.

Let's say I have a small business that makes salsa. One supermarket sells 50X more of my salsa than the other supermarkets. They do that because they give my salsa better visibility in their store and more shoppers see my salsa. By placing my salsa front and center they aid my sales. The other stores don't do that. I wish they would because then we would both sell more of my salsa.

Happy New Year, time for Brunch.


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## Mr. RAD (Jan 4, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson said:
> 
> 
> > Just goes to show you can't please everyone and that an author is damned either way he plays the game. On that playing field, it makes an author's choices rather simple, doesn't it? _Go where the money is._
> ...


+1


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## robertduperre (Jun 13, 2010)

I actually struggled a great deal with joining the Select program, but in the end, I felt it was the best I could do for business at the moment. I rely on sales to pay my bills, and they were downright faltering once autumn came around.

So I looked at the numbers. In the near two years I've done this, the most I've ever sold on B&N was 42 in a single month, whereas on Amazon it was in the thousands. In order to try and get that back, I joined the program. It's sort of a risk/reward type thing. If this works, and after ninety days I've given myself that much more exposure, I opt out of the program and re-pub on PubIt. And for those worried that authors will forget to opt out, if said authors are serious about doing so, they won't forget. This is a business, a stream of income, and those who look at it as such most likely have a huge sign posted on their corkboard with the latest date by which they need to inform Amazon, "Thanks, but no thanks."

As for the aspect of telling Nook readers I don't care about them, I completely understand that. In fact, I received an email two days ago wondering where the third book in my series was, and why the first two books no longer appear in the B&N store. My solution was simple - I wrote back and explained to them what was going on, my desire to build an actual fanbase using select, and sent them an EPub of the book. And this is the third time I've done this. Over the next 62 days, anyone who writes to me wondering where the Nook books are, they'll get a free copy of the book they're looking for. In a way, it's the same as a free promotion on Amazon, only on an admittedly much smaller scale. Also, it seems to me to be the fair thing to do, and serves the purpose of letting readers know _your interest in me is important, and I will do everything in my power to keep you_.

Just my 2¢.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

MoniqueReads said:


> I am confused.
> 
> What do authors want from B&N?
> 
> ...


See, for me, that's a problem. Amazon doesn't segregate indie published books from traditionally published books. A customer doesn't need to decide to purposefully search out an indie book--they are just as likely to encounter my book browsing the political thrillers as one of Vince Flynn's books. Most readers don't even know what an indie author is, so they are certainly not going to go seeking them out.



> This sort of reminds me of the separate section of black books. Where some people complain that black books should be on the regular shelves. Some want black books in a separate section because it makes it easier to find them instead of having to search the store. In the end, its the book store (i.e distributors) decision to place the books based on customer preference.
> 
> Maybe I am confused and don't understand what indie publishing is all about or how it works. But I thought that by making the decision to go the s-p/indie route you understood that most of the responsibility to get the book to the reader was on the authors shoulders. Now, I am hearing that you want the book distributors (Kobo, Apple, B&N, Smashword) to do it for you?
> 
> Or did I just get this all wrong?


I don't think any of us expect a bookstore to do all the promotion, but it would be nice to be put out on the 'floor' with all the other books in our genres.


> *ETA: * I just checked out B&N Top 100 books and guess what I found. S-P/Indie Books.


So? There have always been a few, especially in certain genres. Romance, erotica and YA have done well over there for indies. My genre has not.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

robertduperre said:


> . My solution was simple - I wrote back and explained to them what was going on, my desire to build an actual fanbase using select, and sent them an EPub of the book. And this is the third time I've done this. Over the next 62 days, anyone who writes to me wondering where the Nook books are, they'll get a free copy of the book they're looking for.


I'm not an author. I've not studied how KDP Select works. I've only cursorily followed the _many_ threads on the topic.

But it seems to me I read somewhere that, if a book is part of KDP Select, you can't give out free copies.

I could be wrong. . . .just would hate to have you get in trouble. . . might be something to check on.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I'm not an author. I've not studied how KDP Select works. I've only cursorily followed the _many_ threads on the topic.
> 
> But it seems to me I read somewhere that, if a book is part of KDP Select, you can't give out free copies.
> 
> I could be wrong. . . .just would hate to have you get in trouble. . . might be something to check on.


That was my understanding too. You _can_ give out free copies if you use the gifting feature on Amazon though, of course, those are going to be in mobi format. I suppose if your book doesn't have DRM, that the recipient could then convert it using Calibre.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I'm not an author. I've not studied how KDP Select works. I've only cursorily followed the _many_ threads on the topic.
> 
> But it seems to me I read somewhere that, if a book is part of KDP Select, you can't give out free copies.
> 
> I could be wrong. . . .just would hate to have you get in trouble. . . might be something to check on.


They clarified this. You can give away free copies, and reviews copies. You just can't *sell* it anywhere, nor have it for free in any major retailer. An author sending a free copy over email just isn't the same.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

MaryMcDonald said:


> See, for me, that's a problem. Amazon doesn't segregate indie published books from traditionally published books. A customer doesn't need to decide to purposefully search out an indie book--they are just as likely to encounter my book browsing the political thrillers as one of Vince Flynn's books. Most readers don't even know what an indie author is, so they are certainly not going to go seeking them out.
> 
> I don't think any of us expect a bookstore to do all the promotion, but it would be nice to be put out on the 'floor' with all the other books in our genres.
> So? There have always been a few, especially in certain genres. Romance, erotica and YA have done well over there for indies. My genre has not.


I'm confused about the segregating thing. When I browse B&N plenty of indie books show up. I did a fair amount of searching and testing yesterday and found lots of Indie books I recognized, and I never once clicked on the Pubit books link. Maybe they used to segregate, but they sure aren't now. They weren't last December either because that is where I first found HP Mallory's books; in the top one hundred before she got her publishing contract.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

My wife likes a certain type of xmas tree lights. The only place she can buy them is at Walmart. We don't like Walmart. But that's the only place she can buy the lights she likes. So guess what? She goes to Walmart to buy the lights. 

I have no doubt that if a reader is truly a fan of a certain author's work, not only would that reader go to whatever vendor sells that author's work AND go thru whatever additional steps are required to read that work thru their chosen ereader, but that the reader would SUPPORT the decision of the author to do whatever is required to be able to continue putting work out there.

I don't understand the fuss. It's not like readers are being asked to drive across town. It's a few clicks.

Oh, another thing. A lot of the authors I like to read are NOT available in digital format. And I have to go to a bookstore to buy them. (Or order them online and pay for shipping.) But that's just life.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Kevis 'The Berserker' Hendrickson said:


> See. That's just part of my problem with this whole issue. I totally agree with readers' frustration with authors using the Product description field to post reviews. That's silly. But they took it one step further and said they scorn having editorial reviews placed above product description and wouldn't buy books from any author where they had to click on the editorial reviews link to gain access to the product description. Again, I agree that its a terrible decision to have the product description buried under reviews and other book information. But that's Amazon's doing, not the authors.
> 
> But that's not the issue here. The point I'm making is that authors have always had to make decisions, like any other business person, that satisfies their best interests. It just may be that, for some authors, having the widest distribution net possible won't be part of that strategy. Maybe this is an issue where neither the reader or the author can have their cake and eat it too. Sadly, this does leave the author in an unenviable position of favoring one group of readers over another.


I don't want to sidetrack this, but I do think it's important that the point be clarified:

The member who complained about the reviews was not saying she would never buy from an author who sinned (which your comment kind of imples) nor that she was upset about the editorial reviews being ahead of the blubs but that she didn't like it when there was no blurb at all, just the editorial reviews and that rather than keep looking, she moved on.



> One of the reasons I LOVE buying e-books from Amazon is reading blurbs. I LOATHED paperbacks that had no freakin blurb on the back so I had NO CLUE what the book was about.
> 
> Indie books USED to be great about BLURBS, now however, many have gone the way of those paperbacks and the "blurb area" is FILLED with reviews which I can read IN FULL in the REVIEW section. I Look at covers, if one interests me, I click the cover in the sig line to go read the blurb. IF THERE IS NO BLURB, You just lost a sale. I will not go further trying to HUNT DOWN what the HE** your book is supposed to be about!
> 
> 3 authors here on KB today lost out on sales because of this issue.


This is a business decision. Doesn't the author write the blurb? Every web class I've ever had has said to make it easy for web visitors to learn about your porouct and buy it.... There are only so many "clicks" to capture your buyer.

Betsy


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

MaryMcDonald said:


> That was my understanding too. You _can_ give out free copies if you use the gifting feature on Amazon though, of course, those are going to be in mobi format. I suppose if your book doesn't have DRM, that the recipient could then convert it using Calibre.


OOPS, would be against Amazon's TOS :



> [...] solely on the Kindle or a Reading Application or as otherwise permitted as part of the Service, solely on the number of Kindles or Other Devices specified in the Kindle Store
> 
> "Other Device" means a computer or device other than a Kindle on which you are authorized to operate a Reading Application.
> 
> "Reading Application" means software (including any updates/upgrades to that software) we make available that permits users to shop for, download, browse, and/or use Digital Content on an Other Device.


So no. I may NOT read Kindle "Digital Content" on my Bookeen reader, regardless of DRMs. I'm allowed to buy from Amazon only as long as I use THEIR software.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> The reason why PubIt! are separated into their own section is because of the actions up book uploaders when PubIt! first became available. B&N site was flooded with poorly formatted public domain books. If I wanted to read a public domain book I know where to fine them. In fact, B&N sells them and they are formatted in epub and look great in my reader. Also, the site was flooded with poorly edited books (which has been discussed in this forum several times). Which everyone should know does not sit well with some readers, even on Amazon.
> 
> That's one on the main reason that reviews on S-P/Indie books is so important to me. I need to know what I am getting into. Is it edited at all? Does that author have a basic understanding of grammar? Is it written in text speak? How long is it? Reviews tell me that. Even if the book is 99 cent. It's not about the money but about the time that I invest into reading a book, short story, or novella.
> 
> ...


Did anyone here question reviews the value of reviews? Not that I saw. On both Amazon and B&N I made sure my novels had reviews by sending out review copies. Most of us do.

You say that I am supposed to make my novels available on B&N even though doing so would cost me THOUSANDS of dollars in sales and even though B&N puts me at a competitive disadvantage on their site.

Honestly, that isn't going to happen.

Does that mean I favor one group of reader over another? No, I couldn't care less what device they read on. I simply have to make decisions that gain me the largest number of readers possible. For now, the decision that does that is being exclusive on Amazon.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

MoniqueReads said:


> Maybe I am confused and don't understand what indie publishing is all about or how it works. But I thought that by making the decision to go the s-p/indie route you understood that most of the responsibility to get the book to the reader was on the authors shoulders. Now, I am hearing that you want the book distributors (Kobo, Apple, B&N, Smashword) to do it for you?


First, B&N, Kobo, and Apple are not distributors. They are retailers. (Smashwords is a distributor as well as a retailer, because in addition to selling e-books on their website, they take the titles you upload onto their site and then distribute them to B&N, Kobo, and Apple.) Major distributors include companies like Independent Publishers Group and BookMasters Group. Traditionally, book distributors were the folks involved in getting print copies of books into brick and mortar stores. One of the big changes that occurred during the e-revolution was the bypassing of distributors by small publishers (and even solo authors). In a sense, you became your own distributor when you uploaded your work onto B&N or Amazon's website.

Now, as far as what indies would like online retailers to do?

Some indies simply desire a level playing field. They don't appreciate that their books are being sequestered on indie lists like bruised fruit in bargain bins. They want their works to stand next to the newest S. King book and sink or swim based on their merits (reader reviews).

Some indies want retailers to help them with visibility. Traditionally, this was a paid for service. (Those books you see at the front of a bookstore are often there because a publisher paid money for prime placement. Pay-for-placement is a common practice across all retail sectors. It is no different than renting an end aisle display slot in a Supermarket.) But the key word is _traditionally_.

A few years back, Amazon introduced a different approach. Instead of trying to draw added income from their suppliers, they decided they could make more money by increasing the stratification of their customer base by taking large historical databases and performing advanced algorithm kung-fu on them. They then offered each customer the specific set of products these algorithms suggested they would be most interested in. They essentially created the best targeted marketing system to date-and then applied it to all products for free. Who supplied the products did not matter. What mattered was that they sold. And they didn't stop there. In the book world, they offered free visibility enhancers like best-rated and new release lists. They don't downright say it, but what Amazon started offering was free advertising. And boy did it help our sales (my own included).

Now Amazon is offering more "advertising services" in exchange for exclusivity. Indie authors are already aware of how potent previous Amazon innovations were for their business. (They've seen the dramatic differences in how their books perform in both algorithm rich and algorithm poor environments.) And you've seen it too. That's why you browse on Amazon, correct?

So I don't think it is should come as a surprise that many indie authors jumped at the chance to add more tools to their toolkit. Sure, some are waiting a few months to see how things shake out. Sure, some have moral and/or personal reasons for not signing up for Select. But very few outside of the Romance and Erotic genres will experience much financial harm from pulling their books from B&N. They don't offer similar sales tools, and as a result, they don't deliver similar sales volumes. The proof is in the super-majority of indie author's royalty statements. I don't hear many people contesting this.

And, no, I don't expect any online retailer to do all the selling for me-but when a giant multinational corporation (US$ revenue: 34.2 billion) offers to help sell my books in return for exclusivity, I am very tempted to jump at their offer. (Heck, in the end, even Pixar sold themselves to Disney.) If B&N et al values the revenue generated by indie book sales, they will have to offer additional features to make the Amazon offer less appealing. I understand that they are having a hard time adjusting to the new reality...but I also recall them wiping out hundreds of independent bookstores while I was growing up. My response to both events is the same: It's sad, I hate to see people losing their jobs, but that's the cost of creative destruction.

B.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

genevieveaclark said:


> Wait. Where? I thought the response from low-level KDP support was "don't do it."


I think we need to wait for the lawyers to get back from Aspen. 

B.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I don't want to sidetrack this, but I do think it's important that the point be clarified:
> 
> The member who complained about the reviews was not saying she would never buy from an author who sinned (which your comment kind of imples) nor that she was upset about the editorial reviews being ahead of the blubs but that she didn't like it when there was no blurb at all, just the editorial reviews and that rather than keep looking, she moved on.
> 
> Betsy


I must be mistaken. But that thread was 5 pages of people saying "I Hate looking for blurbs". And for the record, I think they're right to be upset with authors posting reviews in the product description field instead of a blurb. I also think they're right for having to search for the blurb also.

Since I have no shame, I'll gladly play the object of derision here. If anyone wants a good look at what it is I'm ticked off about, check out my book The Legend of Witch Bane. I published that title before there was a Kindle. If you look at the paperback version of the book, the product description/blurb (smartly) appears above all the other extraneous material that my POD publisher submitted to Amazon. But if you look at the Kindle version, there's no product description in sight. You have to click on the "Editorial Reviews" link, then scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to find the PD. I've been going back and forth with Amazon asking them to change this stupid set up. You know what? They don't care.

Is it costing me sales? Hell yeah. Amazon uses this set up on all the pages of tradpubbed books, so I'm guessing that's why it doesn't matter to them. Want to watch the latest video interview with Christopher Paolini? You're good to go. But for Joe Shmo indie author, having his PD lost under his editorial reviews equals a lost sale. It's stupid. Hence, ever since the release of the Kindle, I've never used the editorial reviews feature again. Strictly blurbs.

P.S.: Now that that's off of my chest, you can tune back to your regularly scheduled program.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

B. Justin Shier said:


> First, B&N, Kobo, and Apple are not distributors. They are retailers. (Smashwords is a distributor as well as a retailer, because in addition to selling e-books on their website, they take the titles you upload onto their site and then distribute them to B&N, Kobo, and Apple.) Major distributors include companies like Independent Publishers Group and BookMasters Group. Traditionally, book distributors were the folks involved in getting print copies of books into brick and mortar stores. One of the big changes that occurred during the e-revolution was the bypassing of distributors by small publishers (and even solo authors). In a sense, you became your own distributor when you uploaded your work onto B&N or Amazon's website.
> 
> Now, as far as what indies would like online retailers to do?
> 
> ...


Very well put.

By the way, I have to agree with Kevis. That is exactly what that thread was, pages of complaining if the reviews come first even though it wasn't what the OP said, and I also don't use the "editorial review" section for exactly that reason, but that is a bit O/T.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

genevieveaclark said:


> Wait. Where? I thought the response from low-level KDP support was "don't do it."


It was later clarified by same support person.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Kevis, I would have PM'd you, but I've heard of other authors with the same problem. You can clean up your page by using the Amazon Author Central "contact us" feature. The "editorial reviews" section has a number of subheadings (which include 'reviews', 'author info', 'product description', etc.). Only two of these subheadings will appear on your product page at 1 time. Ask them to delete everything except for the 'product description' subheading. Then add ALL the content that you want to that subheading (editorial reviews included). You'll then have total control over your presentation.

Someone should create another thread if they need more details.

B.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

David "Half-Orc" Dalglish said:


> They clarified this. You can give away free copies, and reviews copies. You just can't *sell* it anywhere, nor have it for free in any major retailer. An author sending a free copy over email just isn't the same.


I'm so glad to know this! I have also sent a free .epub when someone has emailed me at my website because they've been unable to find a book at B&N.

I need to sell more books. The income means I can take time from my day job to write more. it's a vicious or virtuous cycle, depending. I'd hoped to have Copperhead done by now, but writing takes time. In the two weeks since I went into the KDP Select program, my income at Amazon has doubled. If I can keep that up, I can put more time into finishing my series (both of them). I love my 5 Nook readers, but I can't expect them to pay all my bills.

Select is bringing me more income which will make it possible for me to actually finish the books I have on the boards - and eventually they'll be available for Nook readers. But without Select, it was starting to look a little iffy there if I'd ever find the time.

And frankly, here's a little mini rant: What is so burdensome about taking five minutes to convert a book you buy or download free at Amazon? It took the author more than five minutes to write the story for you.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

B. Justin Shier said:


> Kevis, I would have PM'd you, but I've heard of other authors with the same problem. You can clean up your page by using the Amazon Author Central "contact us" feature. The "editorial reviews" section has a number of subheadings (which include 'reviews', 'author info', 'product description', etc.). Only two of these subheadings will appear on your product page at 1 time. Ask them to delete everything except for the 'product description' subheading. Then add ALL the content that you want to that subheading (editorial reviews included). You'll then have total control over your presentation.
> 
> B.


Good to know the spirit of helping each other out on these boards is alive and well. I appreciate the heads up, B. Will certainly do that. Thanks and Happy New Years.


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

LKRigel said:


> And frankly, here's a little mini rant: What is so burdensome about taking five minutes to convert a book you buy or download free at Amazon? It took the author more than five minutes to write the story for you.


Maybe because you don't know how to do it, learning is going to take you longer that you want, and it's against the "retailer's" TOS ?


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

TheSFReader said:


> Maybe because (1) you don't know how to do it, (2) learning is going to take you longer that you want, and (3) it's against the "retailer's" TOS ?


1. here's how to do it 
2. can't help you there
3. If there's no DRM on the book, then go for it.


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## MoniqueReads (Dec 31, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Did anyone here question reviews the value of reviews? Not that I saw. On both Amazon and B&N I made sure my novels had reviews by sending out review copies. Most of us do.


A few pages back someone did question the value of reviews. I can't remember who it was but they basically said that they didn't feel that reviews held that much weight anymore.

On that note.

Thank you all for the lively discussion. You have given me much to think about.

I really hope all of you have much success with you careers. No matter what your decision on KDP Select is. As a business person you have to do what is best for your business. I understand, like I have stated several times. Do what is best for you.

As a reader and consumer Amazon's KDP Select has also made me to look at issues that I never thought that I would have to face. Your opinions of KDP Select, B&N and everything else was really helpful. With what I know now I have decisions to make about my own reading and buying habits.

I wish all of you much success.

Happy New Years,
Monique


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## 39179 (Mar 16, 2011)

What a truly gracious and eloquent person you are, Monique.

I haven't commented on this thread so far, but I just had to say that.

Happy New Year to you!


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

I can't blame anyone for not wanting to sideload. It's a pain compared to pressing a sync button and getting the book delivered to your device, especially when there are hundreds of thousands of books available via that press of a button. Why bother beyond that simple press of a button? 

If we ask potential customers to sideload, we will lose some sales. It's a hurdle, a small one for some of us and one that's anywhere from an inconvenience to insurmountable to others. 

I got a Nook Touch for Christmas and I've sideloaded probably over 100 free books from Amazon that I used Calibre to convert. A few I tried had DRM and I gave up on those rather than try to strip the DRM, even though they were free. I'm not going to jump through that hoop to get at a free book. I'm sure just the idea of using Calibre is enough to stop a large percentage of Nook users like me from even bothering. I certainly am not going to buy an Amazon book with the expectation of converting it -- sure, I'll do that with a free book but I won't lay my money on the line when I'm not 100% sure I will be able to get it on my Nook. There are more books in epub format than I can read in my lifetime. 

Anything that's exclusive to Amazon isn't getting my money until Amazon guarantees I can read it on a non-Amazon device. From a consumer's point of view, wouldn't it be nice if all ebooks were in epub format and e-readers were platform agnostic?


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

MoniqueReads said:


> A few pages back someone did question the value of reviews. I can't remember who it was but they basically said that they didn't feel that reviews held that much weight anymore.
> 
> On that note.
> 
> ...


This is the easily the best thread I've read in a long time. Thanks for giving us authors some much needed perspective from a reader's perspective. Best wishes, Monique, and Happy New Years!


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

The product info for one of my books (on the left) has the magic words (in red) that indicate no DRM. The legacy published book on the right doesn't have that. I can tell you I bought On Gold Mountain and tried to convert it with Calibre as an experiment when I was trying to figure out how to help my Nook readers access Kindle books. I too stopped when I realized it was DRM'd.


Give Me - A Tale of Wyrd and Fae
Format: Kindle Edition
File Size: 279 KB
Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited
Sold by: Amazon Digital Services
Language: English
ASIN: B005KHHZXS
Text-to-Speech: Enabled 
Lending: Enabled
Average Customer Review: 4.5 out of 5 stars See all reviews (12 customer reviews)
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #13,065 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#83 in Books > Literature & Fiction > World Literature > MythologyOn Gold Mountain
Format: Kindle Edition
File Size: 1774 KB
Print Length: 450 pages
Page Numbers Source ISBN: 0679768521
Sold by: Amazon Digital Services
Language: English
ASIN: B004N3AZAU
Text-to-Speech: Enabled 
Lending: Enabled
Average Customer Review: 4.3 out of 5 stars See all reviews (62 customer reviews)
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #2,734 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

This is way on down here, so I'll just reply to the OP: thank you. I agree with everything you've said. I don't get a huge portion of my sales from B&N and other outlets, but I agree 100% about the visibility factor. Each marketplace is just another place where your name pops up, and the potential for sales can't be measured in real sales. By that, I mean you never know if you'll end up selling more at B&N or other outlets unless you leave your books up.

What if, in response to Amazon's monopolistic measures, B&N decides to promote the heck out of indies for the entire month of February? They may never do it, but they could. (And probably should do something pro-Indie to match Amazon and to breath some life into the PubIt system.)

Anyway, I doubt this will be read by very many, so no need to be long-winded. lol Happy New Year.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

BrianKittrell said:


> This is way on down here, so I'll just reply to the OP: thank you. I agree with everything you've said. I don't get a huge portion of my sales from B&N and other outlets, but I agree 100% about the visibility factor. Each marketplace is just another place where your name pops up, and the potential for sales can't be measured in real sales. By that, I mean you never know if you'll end up selling more at B&N or other outlets unless you leave your books up.
> 
> What if, in response to Amazon's monopolistic measures, B&N decides to promote the heck out of indies for the entire month of February? They may never do it, but they could. (And probably should do something pro-Indie to match Amazon and to breath some life into the PubIt system.)
> 
> Anyway, I doubt this will be read by very many, so no need to be long-winded. lol Happy New Year.


If very few people are buying my book on B&N or Smashwords and all the distribution channels, it leads me to believe that nobody is seeing my books anyway. When my books are visible on Amazon, they sell, when they are less visible, they sell less. I have not been able to achieve any visibility on B&N despite various marketing efforts over 18 months. For me, Select doesn't feel like I'm abandoning Nook users because very few even know I'm there.

If B&N has a big marketing effort for Indies, then I'd say that would be a GREAT thing for everyone. It would mean that Select pushed them into improving their marketing or algorithms or whatever they do to sell books. Isn't that better than having all of us just accept the status quo?


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

I agree with pretty much everything the OP said.  I did put a duo of short stories in the KDP select so that my name is in every hat possible.  I did a poll on my blog and my readers (even my nook fans) were very supportive of me pulling one of my novels for 90 days and putting it only on Amazon. While they were all understanding of the reasons, and I think that sales have slowed for me because there are so many freebies being downloaded, I don't see the point FOR ME in doing it LONG TERM.  I don't intend to utilize the "Free 5 day program" even with the short stories.  I sell well on Nook and get good feedback from readers.  I don't think pulling a title for 90 days is going to endear me to readers and ultimately the reader is my customer.

Yes, I'm not getting quite the visibility that others are going to get.  So I'll grow my audience slower.  So I'll be left behind for a few months.  I know that right now the Select program has been a boon to many authors and I think that's great.  It's just not something I want to participate in on any kind of large scale.  I need every reader I can get and unless the terms were even more beneficial to me...I'm staying mostly on the sidelines.

Last, but not least--thanks for the post.  I appreciate hearing your thoughts.


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## Randirogue (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm only about halfway reading the comments on this thread and I intend to finish reading them, but first, I got an idea and decided to run it by you all here.

I understand that the author of the original post of this thread will not likely be open to this idea since she has stated several times that she has no interest in converting from mobi to epub and such, but there are others who would be interested in doing so... if they knew exactly how to do it.

So, my idea is:

What if, in the back of the book, I included directions to converting from mobi file to an epub file using Calibre? I could even include a link to download Calibre. I wonder if this would encourage some nook owners to buy from Amazon when they wouldn't have otherwise.

Would this violate any KDP policy?

I am a very green epubber. So far, I only have one short story out (available at Amazon, B&N, iTunes, Kobo, Sony, Diesel) and I am focusing on getting more out before I do much in the way of marketing. My first novel (to which the short story is a prelude) should hopefully be ready for release in a few weeks, and I have been seriously considering doing KDP Select for at least the first 90 days.

To me, a completely unknown writer in the professional publishing world (be it indie, self-pub, or traditional), extending exclusivity to Amazon for the first 90 days doesn't harm my sales. In fact, I can kind of see it as though it just takes 90 days to release to the other outlets through Smashwords rather than the few weeks it took to achieve premium distribution, thus, be available at the other outlets.

Now, I know of at least two people who only seem to purchase for their Nooks through B&N that have purchased the short story already and say they want to purchase the novel when it becomes available on the Nook as well. I am struggling with the idea that I may have to make them wait due to enrolling the novel release only at Amazon via KDP Select, but I haven't ruled it out yet, especially when there are other options for them to read it on their Nook by purchasing at Amazon.

The more I read the comments here, the more I wonder if it would be smart for me to go actually go for longer than the first 90 days. This way, I could use the visibility benefits available through the KDP Select program in order to build up notice, readership, and (egads, it'd be nice) some notoriety since B&N will not be doing anything to get me visibility on their site. Then, once I have a certain level of attention, I could pull the book(s) from KDP Select and make them available on all the platforms and at all the retailers. This strategy seems, to me, for me, like the optimal way to get people to know about me, to whet their appetites for my works in a broader sense, thus prompting them to even search for these works on the other platforms and at the other retailers.

I have a lot of difficulty with self-promotion (doing it for myself, I mean - it's not that I look down on people who do it) and this may be a solution to helping me deal with that issue.

Either way, I haven't made my decision yet. I'm putting it off until it actually is time to release my novel (or some of its other prelude/prequel short stories, whichever are ready first).

Actually, part of me wishes that Amazon would opt in to offering epub formats on top of Kindle mobi files... even if just for KDP Select authors. That would certainly be a help to many readers who only have epub reading devices. It would also add an additional gouge on the sales at their competitors ebooks.

For instance, a potential ebook customer has a Nook, will only buy epub files for it, will not be buying a new reader any time soon, and will refuse to convert (which is understandable - who wants to buy a to-do project when they just want to open the book and read it? Some don't mind, others do, and I can see their point). This potential customer learns that an ebook they want is only available on Kindle. Well, they will either get bothered and decide to ignore it or be patient and decide to wait (and either remember at a later time or forget). In all of those instances, the reader may still want SOME book to read now... and thus go buy something else that is currently available to them.

Well... if they could simply buy the epub on Amazon... they may just buy it at Amazon instead.

In that instance, Amazon just took a sale from B&N ebookstore.

Sure, they may not have convinced that customer to buy a Kindle right then and there, but... perhaps, over time, the Nook owner finds more and more of the books they want on Amazon but not B&N. In doing so, when the time came for them to get a new ereader for themselves or a loved one, they may just skip the epub reader and go straight to the Kindle - since, well, that is where they do their ebook shopping anyways.

I've posed a version of this question on another thread, but couldn't get people to comment much beyond "amazon wouldn't sell competing products". However, through the scenario I posed above, I think there is reason to sell competing products.

What do you all think?

I ask this especially of non-Kindle ereader owners, specifically Nook owners. If an ebook you wanted was not available at B&N (etc.), but you could purchase the epub file and directly download it to your reader from Amazon, would you?


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

Randirogue said:


> I'm only about halfway reading the comments on this thread and I intend to finish reading them, but first, I got an idea and decided to run it by you all here.
> 
> I understand that the author of the original post of this thread will not likely be open to this idea since she has stated several times that she has no interest in converting from mobi to epub and such, but there are others who would be interested in doing so... if they knew exactly how to do it.
> 
> ...


I know this is aimed at Nook owners but I'll answer anyway. It sounds like an intriguing idea to me. My only concern is how would Amazon interpret this? They may want to drive people to buy Kindles in order to get books from them and might see it as an issue. or maybe they wouldn't mind. Perhaps you should email them and see what they say?

And would most Nook owners know that this is available in your books? How many authors would be willing to do this if it was allowed?


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## TheSFReader (Jan 20, 2011)

Randirogue said:


> So, my idea is:
> 
> What if, in the back of the book, I included directions to converting from mobi file to an epub file using Calibre? I could even include a link to download Calibre. I wonder if this would encourage some nook owners to buy from Amazon when they wouldn't have otherwise.
> 
> Would this violate any KDP policy?


Yes. If you go back to one of my last posts in this thread, you'll see that doing so would invite customers to not follow the TOS, which I think may put you in trouble.



Randirogue said:


> I ask this especially of non-Kindle ereader owners, specifically Nook owners. If an ebook you wanted was not available at B&N (etc.), but you could purchase the epub file and directly download it to your reader from Amazon, would you?


I maybe would, but Amazon won't (for now) play in the other retailers hands by discarding this AZW ace. It's not in their best interest, as they well know. They have cornered the market (with I agree superior offering, for authors and readers alike), and now are reaping what thay sowed.

While I decided to not give money to Amazon anymore (and explained so in an other thread), I also recognize Amazon's tactic for what they are : Genius 
http://readingandraytracing.blogspot.com/2011/12/how-amazon-is-winning-indie-battle.html
and also the other retailers (deserved ) lack of successfull answer for what it is : a shame ... on them !


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

_"Actually, part of me wishes that Amazon would opt in to offering epub formats on top of Kindle mobi files... even if just for KDP Select authors. That would certainly be a help to many readers who only have epub reading devices." _

Not sure how many Billions Amazon has invested in Kindles, Fires and Ebooks, but I am sure it is a big number and I'm sure they want to keep selling more of them. Don't see how offering Epub helps them.


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## Randirogue (Apr 25, 2011)

Victoria J said:


> I know this is aimed at Nook owners but I'll answer anyway. It sounds like an intriguing idea to me. My only concern is how would Amazon interpret this? They may want to drive people to buy Kindles in order to get books from them and might see it as an issue. or maybe they wouldn't mind. Perhaps you should email them and see what they say?


I completely agree; I intend to research this (including emails, if necessary) to find the official answer to this before I would dare try it implementing it.

According to a follow up post by TheSFReader, it violates the TOS, which is, of course, completely logical in a business sense on Amazon's part.



Victoria J said:


> And would most Nook owners know that this is available in your books?


I don't have any followers yet really, so I doubt I'd even be known or discovered to a Nook owner. This, of course, doesn't include the people I directly interact with that are interested in purchasing (and have purchased previously). As such, these people only know of my book(s) because I tell them... and I'm slow to do that.

(Like I said, I'm really awkward with regards to promoting myself. I have some very supportive friends and family that I know will buy my works that I waited weeks - months, in some cases - before telling them I had published. ~_~ooo.)



TheSFReader said:


> I maybe would, but Amazon won't (for now) play in the other retailers hands by discarding this AZW ace. It's not in their best interest, as they well know. They have cornered the market (with I agree superior offering, for authors and readers alike), and now are reaping what thay sowed.
> 
> While I decided to not give money to Amazon anymore (and explained so in an other thread), I also recognize Amazon's tactic for what they are : Genius
> http://readingandraytracing.blogspot.com/2011/12/how-amazon-is-winning-indie-battle.html
> and also the other retailers (deserved ) lack of successfull answer for what it is : a shame ... on them !





jackz4000 said:


> _"Actually, part of me wishes that Amazon would opt in to offering epub formats on top of Kindle mobi files... even if just for KDP Select authors. That would certainly be a help to many readers who only have epub reading devices." _
> 
> Not sure how many Billions Amazon has invested in Kindles, Fires and Ebooks, but I am sure it is a big number and I'm sure they want to keep selling more of them. Don't see how offering Epub helps them.


In a business sense, I can see logic for Amazon to offer epub files for sale along with the mobi file (just as they offer the print book version of a Kindle ebook). Some reasons I can think of off the top of my head include:

1) Amazon could achieve additional sales beyond their current means.

2) Amazon could slowly court the more reluctant non-Kindle customers via an ebook purchasing relationship. During the course of epub ebook sales, they would have an opportunity to "woo" non-Kindle-owning customers to extend their shopping associating with Amazon through Amazon's customer-service-benefits (search engines, lists, also-boughts, no-hassle-returns, etc.)... thus increasing the chances to sway the reader's decision to purchase a Kindle _next time_ they are shopping for an ereader device.

3) Amazon could achieve sales that would have gone to a competing retailer. While selling epub ebooks would enable the continued use (and perhaps sales) of a competing platform/device, it would also allow Amazon the opportunity to achieve ebook sales for those platforms/devices from their competitors. These are sales they absolutely could not have gotten otherwise from those customers at this time.

4) Amazon could reduce alienation of some potential customers. *A)* Even if the Kindle managed to push all other devices out of production (unlikely, at least any time soon), not every non-Kindle ereader owner will jump right out and buy a Kindle. These people will continue to shop for their current device where they can find product for their device until such time that they are able to or willing to invest in a Kindle. By offering non-Kindle ebook formats earlier (rather than later or never), Amazon would enable these potential customers to be more easily weened off their non-Kindle device - and for a profit, in the course of it. *B)* See reason #2. *C)* See reason #7.

5) Amazon could attract more author and/or ebook exclusivity because they wouldn't be requiring the author to alienate/ignore/abandon their non-Kindle-owning readers to do so.

6) Amazon could increase knowledge of the Kindle. The more customers that Amazon lures away from their competitors in any fashion (such as ebook purchases, even for a competing device) increases their visibility to customers, thus generating more opportunity that these customers will become more familiar with the Kindle and as a result, abandon competing devices/retailers/etc. for the Kindle.

7) One could argue that by selling print books, Amazon enables the reluctant conversion to an ereader, and thus, undermines their sales of the Kindle. However, by selling both formats, they can make profit from both formats during the transition. The same theory could be applied to the various epub formats. If Amazon seeks the Kindle to surpass the sales of other epub readers to such an extent that the Kindle is the only viable option, then selling both formats would allow them to profit off of both formats during the transition.

Please note that this doesn't mean I am for a market in which there is only one device or one retailer, etc. I merely considered possible "reasons" that Amazon could have for offering epub files along with mobi files for sale. These "reasons", in my opinion, would be even more applicable to the KDP Select program (a la "Sign up with KDP Select, agree to be exclusive, but we'll sell your - and only your - epub files too." or "Want to sell your epub files on Amazon? Sign up with KDP Select and go exclusive.").

I repeat: I am not condoning any business monopolizing an industry or any corner of an industry. These were merely analytical logics that came to mind when I thought about it (and not very hard or long, either).


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

As someone who has been on the phone for over an hour with various readers as I attempted to help them sideload a book from a site other that Amazon, I can tell you that including such information will be great for a small number of people who are computer savvy.  Of course, those people probably already know about Calibre.  The rest of the world loves Kindle and Nook because it is ONE CLICK.  The whole idea is that they don't have to fool with transferring this or that.  They buy where they want, they read what they want. 

Shoot, I've had people who KNOW how to sideload files ask me to just gift the book to them (reviewers) because it's EASIER.  And it is.

My job is to get the book into the hands of readers--however they want that book and however it is easiest for the reader.  Calibre is a FABULOUS program, but it is not intuitive, rather large and not something I would dream of asking a reader to download.  If they already have it, use it and like it--great.  Bonus.  

Either way, good luck with your decision.  It's not easy.  Amazon has a lot of eyeballs and buyers and they'd like to keep it that.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

_"What do authors want from B&N?"_

I don't want anything from them. How they choose to run their business is none of my business. How I choose to run my business is none of their business. They owe me nothing, I owe them nothing, and I wish them well.

I will look at the opportunities I have, develop a strategy, and choose the set of complementary opportunities that works best to implement my strategy.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2012)

What if . . .

When phonograph records came out, they could play on only one brand of player. For example, a Michael Jackson record could only play on an RCA player. A Gaga record could only play on a GE player.

Or what if the car makers decided that a Ford could only use a tire manufactured by Firestone. While a Firestone would not fit on a Honda which required a tire made by another company.

This is the fix the consumer is in. It is a problem created by the makers of ereaders.

The problem is not going away.

But there is one good benefit for authors. Amazon can no longer offer a "used" copy to compete with our ebooks.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> What if . . .
> 
> When phonograph records came out, they could play on only one brand of player. For example, a Michael Jackson record could only play on an RCA player. A Gaga record could only play on a GE player.
> 
> ...


The phonograph was invented in 1877 by Edison. Within a few years, a number of different incompatible phonograph cylinders and players arrived on the market place. It was chaos. It wasn't until the late 1880's, when Edison and the other makers agreed an a fixed cylinder size, that things began to settle down. In world of tires, we're still dealing with incompatible Presta, Schrader, and Dunlop valves. Innovation and incompatibility always end up in the hay together. Only boring old technologies agree to settle down and get married. 

B.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

A car analogy is not a good one,  there are  very few universal parts in the auto industry...ever try to replace your windshield wipers? 

Betsy


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

First: As long as you provide the reader with a .mobi file (which I create quite easily using scrivener) sideloading is just a drag and drop operation. Easy peasy.

Second: Eventually, all readers will use the same formats. Eventually, you will be able to read a book purchased from Amazon on a Nook. That's the way the market works. As soon as the newness wears off, it will happen.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2012)

I wouldn't call computers "boring old technology"

It was only after the operating system became standarized (with the exception of Apple) that the home computer industry took off. Remember Atari games that only played on an Atari computer, etc. 

The ebook revolution will not reach maturity until the readers, especially the Kindle, adopt a standard format that will work on every machine.

Until that happens, we are writing books that might not last "forever" if the major reader that wants to be our sole distributor goes down the drain.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Rykymus said:


> First: As long as you provide the reader with a .mobi file (which I create quite easily using scrivener) sideloading is just a drag and drop operation. Easy peasy.
> 
> Second: Eventually, all readers will use the same formats. Eventually, you will be able to read a book purchased from Amazon on a Nook. That's the way the market works. As soon as the newness wears off, it will happen.


Easy for you doesn't mean easy for everyone. I say this having been technical support a number of times for this exact operation. Trust me when I tell you that about half the time, the person doesn't really want to learn, gets bored after the first instruction that involves "plug in..." and says, 'never mind, I'll get it from Amazon.' Kindle works very well because some people do not want to hook up cables to anything, open a window, drag or drop. They want to click on the item and begin reading. I'm not about to argue with them.


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## ukdame (Jan 22, 2011)

sibelhodge said:


> ..................... Starting again with no reviews on other sites after the 90 days are up is a nightmare because reviews are so important to readers.


Hi - I've got a lot of reviews on Goodreads and a lot of people have my book on their 'to read' list. If I signed up for KDP, at the end of the 90 days would all my reviews be gone on Goodreads, Smashwords and B & N?

Thanks
Marie


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

ukdame said:


> Hi - I've got a lot of reviews on Goodreads and a lot of people have my book on their 'to read' list. If I signed up for KDP, at the end of the 90 days would all my reviews be gone on Goodreads, Smashwords and B & N?
> 
> Thanks
> Marie


Being on Amazon Select does not affect Goodreads reviews one way or the other. It has not affected my standing on Goodreads. It's not like they publish.

I've unpublished on Smashwords before and didn't lose the reviews when I re-published. I suppose they could change their policy. B&N? No clue.


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## NRWick (Mar 22, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> What if . . .
> 
> When phonograph records came out, they could play on only one brand of player. For example, a Michael Jackson record could only play on an RCA player. A Gaga record could only play on a GE player.
> 
> ...


While I don't like your analogy, the concept happens all the time in gaming. There are games I can not get because I have a PS3 and refuse to own an X-box. I'm also pretty sure there are a few games that I have for only PS3 or what about Wii? I don't see the B&N/Amazon issue being much different.

And, again as a side note, this thread is making me really reconsider how I run my business. I really have some decisions to make soon, it's crazy.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

MariaESchneider; I agree with you on this. (I do tech support as well, so I know of which you speak.) But it is not the author's problem if the reader does not want to be bothered. It's the reader's problem. I sympathize with them, but every writer who is self publishing is an entreprenuer, and therefore has to make business decisions. Why do I use a Kindle? Because it's a good device with easy access to the greatest number of titles. The reader who refuses to use Amazon when it is the only place a title is available, either because they don't like Amazon or the Kindle, or because they don't want to be bothered learning how to get thru the side-load step, that's their decision, not mine.

I only hope that someday I can get to the point in my writing career when I CAN afford to sacrifice some of my profits in order to serve ALL the needs of ALL my readers.  That would be awesome!  But most of us are not there yet.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

NRWick said:


> While I don't like your analogy, the concept happens all the time in gaming. There are games I can not get because I have a PS3 and refuse to own an X-box. I'm also pretty sure there are a few games that I have for only PS3 or what about Wii? I don't see the B&N/Amazon issue being much different.
> 
> And, again as a side note, this thread is making me really reconsider how I run my business. I really have some decisions to make soon, it's crazy.


Lots and lots of PC games are not available for Apple. It wasn't worth the cost of coding for the number that would be sold. No one ever thought that was because game companies hated Apple users or wouldn't have liked the sales.

I can understand Nook users preferring that all books be available to them, but I still think talking to B&N is going to be more effective. B&N could make choices to woo us back, but it doesn't make sense that I would sacrifice a larger number of sales on Amazon for a smaller number on B&N. They would have to take some action for it to make sense for me.


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## NRWick (Mar 22, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Lots and lots of PC games are not available for Apple. It wasn't worth the cost of coding for the number that would be sold. No one ever thought that was because game companies hated Apple users or wouldn't have liked the sales.
> 
> I can understand Nook users preferring that all books be available to them, but I still think talking to B&N is going to be more effective. B&N could make choices to woe us back, but it doesn't make sense that I would sacrifice a larger number of sales on Amazon for a smaller number on B&N. They would have to take some action for it to make sense for me.


Totally agree.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

MariaESchneider said:


> Easy for you doesn't mean easy for everyone. I say this having been technical support a number of times for this exact operation. Trust me when I tell you that about half the time, the person doesn't really want to learn, gets bored after the first instruction that involves "plug in..." and says, 'never mind, I'll get it from Amazon.' Kindle works very well because some people do not want to hook up cables to anything, open a window, drag or drop. They want to click on the item and begin reading. I'm not about to argue with them.


Yeah, people who find it easy enough to handle side loading overestimate the rest of the population. I've been using a PC since 1986 so I'm quite computer-literate, but it wasn't nearly that simple to get a Kindle book on the Nook Touch I just got for Christmas. Let me give you an example:

1. Try to figure out where my Kindle books are (freebies I've downloaded over the months). I finally realized that when I switched from Kindle for PC to the Kindle Cloud Reader all my subsequent Kindle book purchases were stored in the cloud and not on my PC.

2. Try to download files from the cloud and realize there is no option to do that while Amazon thinks my reader is the Cloud Reader. Deregister Kindle Cloud Reader and register Kindle for PC and download ebooks -- it's not that easy to find where to do this in Amazon. You have to follow a tiny link. Anyway, when Amazon thinks your reader is Kindle for PC it downloads the files to your PC.

3. Find ebooks (easy enough for me to poke around in my directories and find them, but when you download them you don't know where they are landing. It's a matter of looking for them.).

4. Notice ebook files don't have a recognizable name but instead are gobbledygook names. B006JWQ6EC_EBOK.mbp? Have I read that? How would I know!

5. Sort ebook files by date so I can work with the newer ones.

6. Load the files into Calibre, which I happen to know about from my writing interests but I might not know about otherwise.

7. Convert them. Note that this means I know to convert them to epub format. I'm not sure every Nook owner would realize that. I bet a lot would look for a "Nook format" in Calibre and be puzzled.

8. Plug Nook into PC with the USB cord. This is also the power cord, which means having to remove the socket plug. Again, not always immediately obvious.

9. Open Nook as a device from my PC. Windows will prompt you when you plug in the USB cable, but if you ignore the prompt you have to know to go into the file manager and figure out where the Nook is. Find the right directory to load the books into.

10. Drag and drop books into Nook.

Many people would give up. I have enough books on my Nook now that I probably will be less likely to convert Amazon books going forward. There are a lot of free books at B&N that are a just a couple of clicks away.


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