# Createspace: Cream or White paper



## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

which do you use for your book?


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

I used cream for my illustrated YA fantasy to give it a more old fashioned feel, and white for my YA paranormal novella, because I suck at consistent author branding like that 

I kind of prefer the white. It's so crisp and lovely.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

CREAM!

I used white and it looked like a non-fiction book.  Go into your bookstore and take a look.  Almost all fiction novels are on cream, non-fiction on white.


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## Bec (Aug 24, 2012)

I used cream. I like it!


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

White! I think their cream looks old and musty.


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## John Hamilton (May 6, 2010)

I like the cream paper better. It seems less sterile and bright like some print-on-demand books.


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

Cream looks SOOOOOOO much better than white.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

I use cream.  At first I didn't like it and thought I'd made a mistake, but now I like it.  The white looks so...  stark and glaring.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I used cream, and I think it looks terrific.


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## Scarlett_R (Sep 30, 2011)

I find cream the better choice, it looks much more professional and at home with all the other books on my book shelf, which are 90% cream.


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## CarlG (Sep 16, 2012)

Another vote for cream. I write Historical Fantasy, so it totally fits. Most fiction uses cream paper. A lot of non-fiction uses white, unless you've got a memoir, biography, or narrative history. There cream rules as well.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

When I got the white proof from CS, I realized I didn't know what white meant. I hardly had any fiction on the shelf the same color. I switched to cream.


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## Jd488 (Oct 8, 2012)

I use white. When I publish my next work on Createspace, I may check out cream, just to see.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

I preferred cream simply because it's a bit easier on the eyes, and most fiction is cream. However, I doubt it makes much difference from a sales perspective. (If it does, then the book isn't that good to begin with.)


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

I use white. Their cream is just too...cream. Even on my bookshelf CS cream is a lot darker than any other books. It makes it look old and funky imo. 

The white is a bit glaring at first but I much prefer it. It also tends to match my covers more.


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## R M Rowan (Jul 13, 2011)

I used cream on mine and loved it. However, if you have a lot of white on your cover, you could try the white so it 'matches'. Totally a style, personal preference thing. I've not personally seen the white so I can't comment on which looks better to me. Good luck on whatever you decide!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Linda Castillo said:


> which do you use for your book?


Cream is usually preferred for fiction, by most publishers.

White is fairly bright; it's used most commonly when you have a book with photos, illustrations, charts, etc., to increase legibility. (Or, if you are printing in color, for contrast reasons and accurate color matching.)

As a result, white is usually the paper color of choice for nonfiction.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I use cream. The white looks stark and nonfictionish to me. It also makes me think self-published and we all hate those dumb old indie books, don't we?


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

I used cream, even though it's nonfiction.


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

Problem with cream is it doesn't come in all trim sizes. So... the next question is: which trim size do you prefer (for fiction)?


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Thanks all! I was curious to what other people use and wondered if I made a mistake in paper color choice. I just got my proof in today, and I love it!  I like the crisp look of white so I think I'll keep it.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Been using white for a while now and it's far too bright.  Just switched to cream for my latest and I don't think I'm looking back


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## Kenny Soward (Dec 1, 2011)

Cream for the PRINT version of the book in my sig.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

I plan to try out cream paper in 5.5 x 8.5 size for an upcoming New Adult novel.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

H. S. St. Ours said:


> Problem with cream is it doesn't come in all trim sizes. So... the next question is: which trim size do you prefer (for fiction)?


I use 5 x 8 for a slightly thicker spine. My books are usually on the short side so I'm afraid the 6 x 9 would make them look like skinny pamphlets. I'd actually prefer mass market size but that option isn't available.


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## Mark Fassett (Aug 25, 2010)

I use the cream paper because I think the white is just too bright. One of the advantages is that it is thicker, so provides a thicker spine. As for trim sizes, I use 5.25x8 for anything under about 75k words. 6x9 for anything over that.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Dara England said:


> I use 5 x 8 for a slightly thicker spine. My books are usually on the short side so I'm afraid the 6 x 9 would make them look like skinny pamphlets. I'd actually prefer mass market size but that option isn't available.


This is exactly me. One of my shorter novels in 6 x 9 is only 144 pages, but in 5 x 8 it's 220 and has more of a "novel" feel to it, if that makes sense. I've kept both editions available for readers who have a size preference.

As for cream vs. white, I've made a stylistic choice to use cream for all my fantasy works, but white for everything else, which for me tends to be horror and/or literary material.


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## Bruce Blake (Feb 15, 2011)

I've done both and realized the white doesn't look quite right. All my future books will be cream.


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## lcharnes (Dec 19, 2012)

As a reader whose eyes are getting older, I went with white, because the extra contrast makes it just that much easier to read in less-than-perfect light. My market (thriller) skews old; I have to imagine other potential readers my age will have the same reaction.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

I, too, am interested in more opinions on trim size.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

David Stephens said:


> I used white, not because I liked it but because the cream was horrible beyond belief. It's far too dark, far too thick, far too stiff, far too slick. It bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the cream paper used in most fiction from traditional publishers for, well, forever.
> 
> I don't know if Createspace selected this stock because it prints better or because they are complete morons who never bothered to go to the bookstore or the library to see what paper everyone else in the known universe has used since the invention of printing.
> 
> CS cream is not CS white with a bit of color added. It's a completely different paper. If the warehouse where it's stored would burn to the ground it would be a huge favor to literature.


David, I find your invective to be unnecessary to make your point.

As for your impressions of CS cream, all I will say is, "My mileage varies" on that score.

Both of my books that are long enough to be in print (one of my titles is a short story) are printed on CS cream. Love it. No complaints.

===

Sapphire, there are four sizes in cream paper that also are "industry standard" sizes that allow your print book to be distributed to the full "expanded distribution list."

Since I'm interested in having my novels be available/orderable in all sectors, otherwise why bother with expanded distribution, I stick to those four sizes.\

(Those four sizes, according to Smashwords, are: 5x8, 5.25x8, 5.5x8.5, and 6x9.)

I mean, technically, CS is able to do any trim size, even custom ones you make up: but then you have to use white paper, not cream; and there are several markets in their expanded distribution feature that simply won't take your book if it's a non-standard custom trim. So it depends on your sales purpose. If you don't care about cream paper or expanded distribution, then go on ahead and order that 4x8.175 trim you love so well!  LOL

And, actually, I stick to 6 x 9 exclusively so far. Why? I just like it. Personal preference, nothing deeper than that about it.  Maybe it's because, in size, it's close to being hardcover size, and that's what I want/like.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

For those wondering about book trim sizes, here's a helpful link: https://www.createspace.com/en/community/docs/DOC-1711


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

Cream all the way. You want to resemble an actual book. The white screams self-published imo.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

AdamGeen said:


> Cream all the way. You want to resemble an actual book. The white screams self-published imo.


Or, white can scream "non-fiction," "color printing," or "has photos."

But yeah, in fiction, most often it's cream.


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## Marina Maddix (Sep 7, 2012)

One of the prizes of the Insatiable Reads tour was a bundle of paperbacks from 10 of the participating authors. I collected them all and sent them off to the winner, and I did side-by-side comparisons of them all. Our conclusion based on the photos (and my eyeballs) was that the defaults on CS will produce a 'self-pubbed' looking book. The best-looking books of the bunch used these (non-default) parameters:

Cream paper
5x8 (smallest standard cut size)
12 pt Garamond (default is 11 pt and it's quite small)

Again, none of these are the default but they make the most professional looking product. The extra bonus of this is that your book's Amazon listing will show a higher page count!


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Has anyone considered going a bit larger than Garamond 12 pt? My book series targets the baby boomer generation and "over 40" eyes are not what they once were. Would larger be a good idea, or would it start to resemble a large print book for the geriatric set?

(Please don't yell at me about the geriatric comment. I'm not trying to offend anyone. My own eyesight isn't the best either.)


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Sapphire said:


> Has anyone considered going a bit larger than Garamond 12 pt? My book series targets the baby boomer generation and "over 40" eyes are not what they once were. Would larger be a good idea, or would it start to resemble a large print book for the geriatric set?
> 
> (Please don't yell at me about the geriatric comment. I'm not trying to offend anyone. My own eyesight isn't the best either.)


Not everyone uses Adobe Garamond Pro. Other common fonts are Bookman Old Style (which is designed to be a spacier/wider font) as well as Adobe Caslon Pro, and Gentium Book Basic, just to name some of the more popular ones.

And those are just the most popular serif fonts. Sans-serif are another discussion.

11 point is pretty standard.

12 point's also acceptable, especially if you have a 6x9 trim. (Words get a little spacey in smaller trims, though.)

"Large print" books, by definition, are those set in 16-point or larger fonts.


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## Shane Murray (Aug 1, 2012)

Thank you for this thread KB.

I am making my first createspace project at the moment and a friend was saying go white. After seeing this post I checked out a big pile of Neil Gaiman books I just ordered and they were all in cream. I agree it is more common and easier on the eyes, and the overwhelming opinion seems to be that cream is better than white for fiction.

KB saves the day again


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## Liz Davis (Dec 10, 2011)

I used cream both times. I love it.


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

Well, today I pushed the button on 3 books. All 5.25"x 8" and cream paper. Can't wait to see them!


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## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

So would you say white for non-fiction and cream for fiction? I write both.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Another vote for cream.  White doesn't look like a "real" professionally published book and always screams amateur to me.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

David Stephens said:


> All you people who think Createspace cream looks professional, please take your book to the local bookstore and compare it to a few dozen trade paperbacks or hardbacks picked at random. Don't just say you found some books in the bookstore with cream paper and your book has cream paper and therefore it's the same. It's important to do a side-by-side comparison. Compare the thickness, surface, texture, color. Did you find even one with the same paper?


I think it depends on the genre, also. Many times, I walk into the fantasy section of a bookstore, just to study the books' construction. Many books use matte covers with white paper. The paper only appears to be 'cream' because the paper has deteriorated over time from sitting on the shelf and/or being handled by so many people.


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## T.P. Grish (Oct 21, 2012)

Can someone post a picture comparison between white and cream paper books, if you happen to have one of both? 

I have white books, but don't have cream, and I'd rather not change it and order it, if I don't have to, as I am happy with white. I just want to see what cream would look like from CS.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

David Stephens said:


> All you people who think Createspace cream looks professional, please take your book to the local bookstore and compare it to a few dozen trade paperbacks or hardbacks picked at random. Don't just say you found some books in the bookstore with cream paper and your book has cream paper and therefore it's the same. It's important to do a side-by-side comparison. Compare the thickness, surface, texture, color. Did you find even one with the same paper?


I own plenty of mainstream books on cream paper, and both my books are on CS cream. I've already said I love it, and I do.

Impressions like these are personal and highly subjective. I have no problems with CS cream. You do. Neither of us is wrong. We just hold different opinions. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

T.P. Grish said:


> Can someone post a picture comparison between white and cream paper books, if you happen to have one of both?
> 
> I have white books, but don't have cream, and I'd rather not change it and order it, if I don't have to, as I am happy with white. I just want to see what cream would look like from CS.


Terrible quality photo, but I happened to have my (old) camera and two such books from Createspace on hand. In this case I think the cream looked nice with my friend's book, but it looked a-w-f-u-l with mine, probably because of my bright cover. Like the printing ink, I've noticed that CS cream paper tends to vary slightly in shade from print to print. I've seen some so dark I could barely read it in normal light.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

David Stephens said:


> I used white, not because I liked it but because the cream was horrible beyond belief. It's far too dark, far too thick, far too stiff, far too slick. It bears absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the cream paper used in most fiction from traditional publishers for, well, forever.
> 
> I don't know if Createspace selected this stock because it prints better or because they are complete morons who never bothered to go to the bookstore or the library to see what paper everyone else in the known universe has used since the invention of printing.
> 
> CS cream is not CS white with a bit of color added. It's a completely different paper. If the warehouse where it's stored would burn to the ground it would be a huge favor to literature.


You appear not to be a fan of the cream option, sir.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

I use cream for 5.25x8.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

I used cream for fiction and white for non-fiction, but I love the cream so much that I'm using that for my next non-fiction too. I think the white is too stark, and looks a little cheap IMO. The cream looks classier to my eye. Maybe font choice accentuates these little differences, but Garamond + white paper just looked odd.


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## T.P. Grish (Oct 21, 2012)

Hildred said:


> Terrible quality photo, but I happened to have my (old) camera and two such books from Createspace on hand. In this case I think the cream looked nice with my friend's book, but it looked a-w-f-u-l with mine, probably because of my bright cover. Like the printing ink, I've noticed that CS cream paper tends to vary slightly in shade from print to print. I've seen some so dark I could barely read it in normal light.


Thanks for that Hildred, that helped. I think I'll stick to white. A lot of traditional paperbacks do indeed have a creamish quality, but I wouldn't want it too dark.


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## Jd488 (Oct 8, 2012)

I posted earlier that I use white and would try cream in my next book. It appears white didn't pass muster this time, so I'm trying cream now for my current book, _The Curse_.


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Wansit said:


> I use cream for 5.25x8. Here's what it looks like.


ooh, yours looks nice. Thanks for sharing.


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Hildred said:


> Terrible quality photo, but I happened to have my (old) camera and two such books from Createspace on hand. In this case I think the cream looked nice with my friend's book, but it looked a-w-f-u-l with mine, probably because of my bright cover. Like the printing ink, I've noticed that CS cream paper tends to vary slightly in shade from print to print. I've seen some so dark I could barely read it in normal light.


This does look a bit darker than the cream color I envision.


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## Debbie Bennett (Mar 25, 2011)

Cream, 5x8, Garamond. A lovely classy light cream. Hard-pushed to tell the difference between it and any trad-pubbed book on my shelf.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

First, I use Lightning Source, not Create Space.

And, I have used both cream and white with hundreds of titles at Norilana Books, and have come to the conclusion that cream is far more professional. You cannot go wrong with cream. 

And white tends to look more sterile, and as someone mentioned, lends itself better to technical, non-fiction, or textbook, while cream is the choice for fiction.

And, if you have B&W interior illustrations, cream still works just as well.

I have not tried color interiors, but that may be the one time you might use white for a truer color/hue reproduction.

As far as trim size, 99.9% I have used 6 x 9".  A few times have used oversize hardcovers, and smaller paperbacks.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Linda Castillo said:


> This does look a bit darker than the cream color I envision.


The lighting in that photo is both poor and misleading. Notice that the "white" is not even the "true white" that CS uses.

Photoshop can made Shakira look Irish, and can make Johnny Cash look Native American, and you don't even need to be that good with the program to pull that off.

Translation: Photos can be very misleading.

I'm not going to claim my photo is exempt from that. It was color-corrected at the time to take the "yellowness" of the overhead lights out of the photo, which were making a perfectly white towel and apartment wall appear yellowish.

But I think you'll find this a bit closer, color-corrected though it is, to what you'll see on "CreateSpace cream."










So, at worst, it's a mild move a step or two toward the "off-white/cream/slight yellow cast" direction, but nowhere near as dark as it appears in that other photo.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Scarlett_R said:


> I find cream the better choice, it looks much more professional and at home with all the other books on my book shelf, which are 90% cream.


This. White looks very stark and out of place on a fiction bookshelf. You see it used a lot for non-fiction, but not for fiction. When used for fiction it looks very POD.


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## 60865 (Jun 11, 2012)

Wansit said:


> I use cream for 5.25x8. Here's what it looks like.


what font did you use?


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> The lighting in that photo is both poor and misleading. Notice that the "white" is not even the "true white" that CS uses.
> 
> Photoshop can made Shakira look Irish, and can make Johnny Cash look Native American, and you don't even need to be that good with the program to pull that off.
> 
> Translation: Photos can be very misleading.


As I said, my picture sucked. But no one else was posting.

Although the cream on my friend's CS book above is darker than another one I have somewhere. (And to me your picture looks white.)


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Hildred said:


> As I said, my picture sucked. But no one else was posting.
> 
> Although the cream on my friend's CS book above is darker than another one I have somewhere. (And to me your picture looks white.)


Yup, but I adjusted the tint/lighting in my photo, as I said. It was adjusted so that, visually (at least to me) the photo looks like the paper copy I own. Which is cream. In my experience, CS cream is somewhat subtle color, more of an off-white than a true yellowish thing.

And much depends on the lighting. The flash on a camera phone can bleed out some color at the center of the flash (where the pages are) while making the stuff at the edges (white wall and towel) seem darker than they actually are.

But perceptions depend upon the person... opinions are like noses... nearly everyone has one.


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Yup, but I adjusted the tint/lighting in my photo, as I said. It was adjusted so that, visually (at least to me) the photo looks like the paper copy I own. Which is cream. In my experience, CS cream is somewhat subtle color, more of an off-white than a true yellowish thing.
> 
> But perceptions depend upon the person... opinions are like noses... nearly everyone has one.


Too bad it can't be roses. Roses are so much nicer...unless you have allergies...then I guess it's a good thing you don't have the nose.

/derail.oops


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

If the CreateSpace cream is variable, that's another problem in itself.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

jnfr said:


> If the CreateSpace cream is variable, that's another problem in itself.


Personally, I don't think CS Cream is variable.

I think perceptions of it are.

What one person might regard as "not dark at all, a pleasant cream," another might regard as "rather yellowed and too dark."

Neither person is wrong. They're seeing the same paper, which is what it is. But their perceptions of that same exact paper are different, because their tastes differ.

As someone once said, paraphrasing Abe Lincoln, "You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time."


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## RuthNestvold (Jan 4, 2012)

As I am finally venturing into print, this is a very timely and very appreciated thread. Thank you, all!


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