# How about the school bus monitor getting tortured by the 13 year-old kids?



## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Anyone seen this video? Really freakin' disturbing. If I was the school, I'd never let those kids set foot on another bus, and if I was the parents, I'd drag the creeps by the ear to her doorstep, make them drop to one knee and apologize with a bouquet of flowers.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the word 'torture' is a bit strong, but it's not, unfortunately, new behavior.  There were kids who did stuff that bad when I was in school.  It's the age -- one kid starts and they egg each other on.  The ones who know it's wrong are afraid to stop it, even if they don't take part, for fear the bullies will turn on them.  Of course, back then, they didn't have the capability to film it for the world to see.   Forever.

I agree that the school and parents should discipline the kids. (My suggestion would be that they are now responsible for all the chores around her house -- lawn mowing, snow shoveling, dusting and vacuuming -- for the foreseeable future.) I don't agree that people should make death threats against them.  And I applaud the lady for maintaining her dignity.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

People have raised close to half a million dollars for her vacation.  That could be some vacation!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

And Disney has offered her an all-expenses paid trip to Disney World.

I understand she does not want to press any charges, that the kids involved have all written apologies to her, and that the school system is considering suspending the students involved for the next school year.

I think "bullying" or just "being mean" is the proper description.

The lady has shown a lot of class in her responses.

Betsy


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Something similar should be done to the kids.  With parents' and authorities' permission, something that would be embarrassing to the kids or make them feel uncomfortable for their peers to know should be announced at a school assembly.  Let them experience something similar to what they did to the woman.  Not done purposely to embarrass them, but teach them a lesson by example.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I think "bullying" or just "being mean" is the proper description.


Webster's 9th Collegiate:

torture _vt_ 1. to cause intense suffering to : torment

I think what they did falls within the definition. They told her that her family should commit suicide because of her, and it turns out someone in her immediate family committed suicide. They're talking about plunging a knife into her fat belly. I mean, I don't wanna go overboard, and she makes out in the end because she gets a load of cash, but it was vicious. I've seen some people get picked on, but never to that degree. I guess it might have gone on when I was in school, but we still had corporal punishment, so I don't think kids were THAT over the top, because nobody wants a spanking. I dunno. It was just depressing to see.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> (My suggestion would be that they are now responsible for all the chores around her house -- lawn mowing, snow shoveling, dusting and vacuuming -- for the foreseeable future.)


Lawn mowing and snow shoveling, sure -- but would you want those kids _in your house_? If it were me, I wouldn't want to set eyes on them ever again. I also wouldn't trust them in the slightest.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

I have a dumb question, and it may be completely off the mark, so please don't jump on me.  I only rode a school bus for a very short time, and there were never monitors aboard.  I'm guessing they're sort of like the school version of air marshals.    Wouldn't such a person's job be to keep the kids in line, and make sure that rules get followed, at the very least the safety rules and probably also some sort of behavioral rules?  This poor woman endured a lot, undoubtedly, and I don't mean to be disrespectful of her, but wouldn't that job require somebody who could stand up to the kids and enforce at least minimal discipline on the bus?  Maybe this incident will encourage school districts to hire people whom the kids would see as "tougher"  --  retired cops, for example.  Or am I totally misunderstanding the purpose of having a bus monitor?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I only rode a bus in high school, and there were no monitors.  I didn't realize there were such things until this story broke.

Betsy


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I think she only makes 15,000 a year so it would be probably difficult to get a lot of people willing to do that kind of job I would think. 

Watching the video makes me very emotional, as I was one of those kids brutally bullied in school, mentally and phycially and back then I had no place to turn. Kids can be incredibly cruel and they always have been. They have always scared the heck out of me.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Susan in VA said:


> I have a dumb question, and it may be completely off the mark, so please don't jump on me. I only rode a school bus for a very short time, and there were never monitors aboard. I'm guessing they're sort of like the school version of air marshals.  Wouldn't such a person's job be to keep the kids in line, and make sure that rules get followed, at the very least the safety rules and probably also some sort of behavioral rules? This poor woman endured a lot, undoubtedly, and I don't mean to be disrespectful of her, but wouldn't that job require somebody who could stand up to the kids and enforce at least minimal discipline on the bus? Maybe this incident will encourage school districts to hire people whom the kids would see as "tougher" -- retired cops, for example. Or am I totally misunderstanding the purpose of having a bus monitor?


Yeah, here's a generic job description off the internet:

http://www.rccdc.org/files/Bus_Monitor_JD.pdf


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## prairiesky (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes, bullying has always been a problem.  But, unfortunatly, I believe that it is more prevalent now.  There are many parents now who will not allow their child to take consequences for their behavior.  My daughter and son-in-law are middle school teachers.  I cannot tell you how often they give examples of kids caught misbehaving and the parents make excuses, lie for the kid and deny any wrong doing from their child.  Sheesh, if I got in trouble at school, there was hell to pay at home.  I knew I could not hoodwink my folks....it was my responsibility to behave and not embarrass them or myself.


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## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon) (Jan 19, 2011)

I think it is general problem due to at least 2 reasons: 1. Kids need to be disciplined. I don't like social services overly interfering with parenting.
2. There is general lack of respect for seniors, whether young parents or grand parents or other seniors.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

It's unbearable to watch.  I heard some of the kids apologized, but that seems way too little, way too late.  They deserved to be punished in some way.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

The problem is parent's don't discipline and other adults including the school personnel are not allowed to. It's free reign for kids. When I was a kid we were at least a little afraid of the teachers and adults. At least to the point where you would jump to when they used the "Voice". Now kids know there is nothing you can do them and their parent's won't do anything

Not all kids or parents of course, but my wife works in the school system and it is not uncommon


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## Routhwick (Apr 1, 2012)

Perhaps those kids have never seen good cartoons such as these:






Or have they (or their parents) even once considered?

(I've had this thing with the Bears since I was little, and still do at age 25. You can thank that and my newfound _Maple Town_ obsession for my virtuousity within.)


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

Apologies to this woman just aren't enough, AFAIC; neither is suspending the kids. But--and I think this is the kicker--the parents have to step up and really handle this, and make it public. I know if my kid had done anything remotely like this, his life for the next few months would be decidedly unpleasant. He'd lose _everything_, from his computer and phone and TV to the door on his bedroom. He'd have a mattress on the floor, a lamp, and that's it. His summer would be spent working his asterisk off, mowing my lawn, mowing her lawn--he would essentially be her little


Spoiler



bitch


 for the entire summer.

And he would most definitely apologize...to her face, it better be genuine, and it would be videotaped and then put up on YouTube.

I think the only good thing to come out of this woman's pain is that the fund reddit started is over half a million dollars now, and by the time the fund drive expires it may be close to a million...after taxes are chomped out of it, she'll have one hell of a start towards retirement.

I admire her composure...a lot of people would have lost it and gotten physical with those kids. It could have gotten far uglier than it did.


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## Mollyb52 (Jan 4, 2009)

I heard one father say "he's only 13".  Excuses are like.....everyones got one.  Don't make little darling feel bad about himself...BS.  Don't shame them or make them feel guilty.  More BS.  They need to be told they have shamed themselves and their families. They should feel very guilty for ganging up on that poor woman (who's job it is to see that no one hurts them).  I agree death threats etc. to the kids and family are wrong...but they need to understand they caused everthing that has happened with their actions.  You reap what you sow.  Karma is a B---h.  If I was her I would not want those little monsters around my house working.  Community service of the most foul kind would be too good for them.  I would be willing to bet money that in the future we will hear about at least one of them physically harming someone.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Susan in VA said:


> I have a dumb question, and it may be completely off the mark, so please don't jump on me. I only rode a school bus for a very short time, and there were never monitors aboard. I'm guessing they're sort of like the school version of air marshals.  Wouldn't such a person's job be to keep the kids in line, and make sure that rules get followed, at the very least the safety rules and probably also some sort of behavioral rules? This poor woman endured a lot, undoubtedly, and I don't mean to be disrespectful of her, but wouldn't that job require somebody who could stand up to the kids and enforce at least minimal discipline on the bus? Maybe this incident will encourage school districts to hire people whom the kids would see as "tougher" -- retired cops, for example. Or am I totally misunderstanding the purpose of having a bus monitor?


This pretty much sums up my thoughts when I saw the video. I mean, I feel bad for the woman and I was disgusted with the kids behavior, but for heavens sake lady GROW A PAIR already! If these kids are tormenting her in this manner I think they must surely have been tormenting other kids before her. If I were a parent of a kid on that bus that was a victim of this bullying I would hold this woman to be equally responsible for allowing it to continue.


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## bce (Nov 17, 2009)

sheiler1963 said:


> If I were a parent of a kid on that bus that was a victim of this bullying I would hold this woman to be equally responsible for allowing it to continue.


And that's exactly what's wrong with those kids. Parents like that. Blame the victim here. If you raised your child right, she wouldn't have been in that position. Hell, there wouldn't be a school bus monitor position

You obviously don't understand how it works in schools these days (I have two family members that work in high schools). The inmates, and their parents, run the asylum. You shouldn't expect them to do their home, last years teacher didn't. Don't try to discipline my child, I'll get a lawyer (and they do). Parents that tell there children that it is ok to hit someone if they don't do what you want. These same parents were surprised that their daughters were in trouble all the time and constantly suspended.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

bce said:


> And that's exactly what's wrong with those kids. Parents like that. Blame the victim here. If you raised your child right, she wouldn't have been in that position. Hell, there wouldn't be a school bus monitor position
> 
> You obviously don't understand how it works in schools these days (I have two family members that work in high schools). The inmates, and their parents, run the asylum. You shouldn't expect them to do their home, last years teacher didn't. Don't try to discipline my child, I'll get a lawyer (and they do). Parents that tell there children that it is ok to hit someone if they don't do what you want. These same parents were surprised that their daughters were in trouble all the time and constantly suspended.


I didn't hold the victim solely responsible. I believe I used the word *equally* in my post. Why, yes I did since you quoted it just as I said it. 
I also believe I raised my child right. We had a very important talk when she was in school and was on the peripheral of a bullying situation and unsure how she should handle it. I told her a true story of something that I witnessed when I was her age and ended my story with, 'If there is ever one thing in my life I could go back and do differently, this is it. Please know that if you sit back and allow this to happen and do nothing it will haunt you for a long long time.' I had tears in my eyes when I was done and my kid took it to heart. Not only did she never participate in such behavior, she advocated for victims throughout her school yrs. Since then she has grown up, graduated college and to this day advocates for the meek and the mild and the bullied. However she will also hold people responsible for what they allow to happen to themselves. That was another thing I tried to teach her, 'Nobody can do anything to you unless you let them.' 
If standing up for ones self (or someone else) gets one sued, in my case I say, 'So sue me!' 
'nuff said


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## Mollyb52 (Jan 4, 2009)

Karen Klein stated she was concerned she would be fired if she stood up to these bullies.  You don't seem to understand that she was working on that  bus because she needed the job to live.  She also stated that she had written these kinds of things up before and nothing was done.  It is common for teachers and administrators, (and parents for that matter), to feel people like bus monitors, cafeteria ladies, janitors, etc. are lesser human beings and it is OK to ridicule them.  I worked in a school system.  There is often a class system that is abhorrent.  The only good thing about this is that it appears that Ms. Klein is going to be a little more financially secure from the donations.  Living well is the best revenge.  ( By the way, I worked in a "paraprofessional" position and was treated OK.  I have no personal axe to grind.)


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Mollyb52 said:


> Karen Klein stated she was concerned she would be fired if she stood up to these bullies. You don't seem to understand that she was working on that bus because she needed the job to live. She also stated that she had written these kinds of things up before and nothing was done. It is common for teachers and administrators, (and parents for that matter), to feel people like bus monitors, cafeteria ladies, janitors, etc. are lesser human beings and it is OK to ridicule them. I worked in a school system. There is often a class system that is abhorrent. The only good thing about this is that it appears that Ms. Klein is going to be a little more financially secure from the donations. Living well is the best revenge.


What can someone like this do? When discipline is broken down or never taught, someone in this position can only give a stern "No...Stop that!" and if the kid(s) refuse...they have nothing else, except to write it up and it will get ignored. The only time something is done if it is caught on tape.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

This doesn't surprise me. I drove a grade school bus about eight years ago. I had no other adults on the bus. It was impossible to control the kids. I switched to a special needs school and the autistic kids were easier to deal with than the regular school kids.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Mollyb52 said:


> Karen Klein stated she was concerned she would be fired if she stood up to these bullies. You don't seem to understand that she was working on that bus because she needed the job to live. She also stated that she had written these kinds of things up before and nothing was done.


Fired? But... wasn't it, in fact, her _job_ to stand up to bullies? Or is the job of a monitor simply to _observe_ bullying behavior (and possibly worse) and then to write it up for someone else to deal with (or not )? As in, "My report: Kid A pulled a knife on Kid B; Kid B responded by shooting Kid A. End of report." Surely a monitor is supposed to step in and DO something before things get out of hand.



Mollyb52 said:


> It is common for teachers and administrators, (and parents for that matter), to feel people like bus monitors, cafeteria ladies, janitors, etc. are lesser human beings and it is OK to ridicule them. I worked in a school system. There is often a class system that is abhorrent.


That's appalling. I haven't seen that at DD's school, but I can believe that it's common.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Fired? But... wasn't it, in fact, her _job_ to stand up to bullies? Or is the job of a monitor simply to _observe_ bullying behavior (and possibly worse) and then to write it up for someone else to deal with (or not )? As in, "My report: Kid A pulled a knife on Kid B; Kid B responded by shooting Kid A. End of report." Surely a monitor is supposed to step in and DO something before things get out of hand.
> 
> That's appalling. I haven't seen that at DD's school, but I can believe that it's common.


You can't physically restrain or even touch them without risking a law suit. Many of them can be as strong or stronger than you. During her "training" it was probably made clear that she could not touch them and could only verbally reprimand.

It worked in my day, but I see a lot of kids these days that just laugh at you.

I thought this was a good article about the difficulties schools face:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_2_who_killed_school_dis.html

""Protect yourself," one New York City high school teacher describes the reigning spirit. "If kids are fighting, stand back. Call a supervisor or a security guard. Don't get involved." That teachers are asked to rely for the safety of their students on security guards-figures unknown to schools 30 years ago-says much about the wreckage of both adult-child relations and of the school as a civil community. It also serves as a grim reminder that when adults withdraw from the thousand daily encouragements, reminders, and scoldings required to socialize children, authoritarian measures are all that's left.

The effect of the collapse of adult authority on kids is practically to guarantee their mistrust and alienation. Schools in this country, particularly high schools, tend to become what sociologist James Coleman called an "adolescent society," dominated by concern with dating, sex, and consumerism. The loss of adult guidance makes it certain that adolescent society-more powerful than ever, if we're to believe TV shows like Freaks and Geeks and Popular-will continue in its sovereignty. Quaking before the threat of lawsuits and without support from their superiors, educators hesitate to assert the most basic civic and moral values that might pose a challenge to the crude and status-crazed peer culture. When they do talk, it is in a language that doesn't make any sense to kids and cannot possibly compel their respect."


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## A. Cross (Jun 13, 2012)

I saw this on the news yesterday.  I thought it was really nice that the 25 year old who saw the video took the initiative to do something kind for the lady.  And the result has been remarkable - over $400,000!  Who would have thought?!  It's sad that this happened but the silver lining is that there are good, caring people out there who've reached out to the lady either by opening their wallets or sending her letters.


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## ellesu (Feb 19, 2009)

This is an interesting topic. I agree that it was torture for Karen Klein. Yet, I don't see how the school board can (or should) treat it as torture because of the ages of the students, etc. Bullying is also intended to cause the same feelings as torture in the individual being bullied. So....I guess we have different levels of torture (as we do of robbery, murder, etc)? A matter of semantics, I guess. On second thought...do you think bullying is intended to cause the one being bullied pain or to bolster the feelings of the one doing the bullying? I'm getting off topic here so I'll just say that I hope a punishment is arrived at that will make a positive difference in those students. They have an opportunity for an enormous learning experience in their lives - especially since their behaviors have become so public. I can only hope they feel some, if not all, of the disgust most of us feel.

I couldn't agree more with the Susan in VA. Size and/or demeanor makes a huge difference in some situations. You've got to get their attention before you can accomplish anything. I'm not talking about bullying the bully, I'm talking about strength. That strength can come from demeanor - which might need training. 

I admire Ms Klein not only for keeping her composure but for volunteering to ride that bus in the first place!


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## geniebeanie (Apr 23, 2009)

I really think the schools should stop behavior like this.  When I was in grade school, I was called names because I had asthma.  Teachers some where nuns just ignored it.  I never really got over this either.  It still hurts.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Well here's an idea. When someone is being bullied and videotaped then turn it around. Pull out your own cell phone and video tape THE BULLIES. The fact is that bullies are actually cowards and when one stands up to a bully they will find that the bully's power is a charade. Speak loudly and carry a big stick and all that.........


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

sheiler1963 said:


> Well here's an idea. When someone is being bullied and videotaped then turn it around. Pull out your own cell phone and video tape THE BULLIES. The fact is that bullies are actually cowards and when one stands up to a bully they will find that the bully's power is a charade. Speak loudly and carry a big stick and all that.........


I hear this a lot, but is it mythical? Maybe not in the past, but these days many high school bullies at least are not a charade. They may be gang members carrying more than a big stick in fact...


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