# BORDERS BOOKS: On the brink of going under; unless they are bought out...



## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I feel bad...I love the smell when you first walk in. I enjoy going to Border's. They offer free Wi-fi and they seem to always be busy. There are always people in line to pay. They draw a good night crowd at the cafe'. I guess many were sitting but not spending and just mooching the free Wi-Fi. I thought they and the e books could both coexist in harmony. I really do feel badly about it. I hope Barnes and Noble takes over. I LOVE my Kindle; but I also like a nice bookstore.



> Associated Press
> 
> The printed book market just doesn't seem large enough for Borders anymore. Borders is the second-largest bookstore chain in the U.S. behind Barnes & Noble. Unfortunately for these companies, bookstore chains are going the way of the dinosaur with Amazon digitizing books and becoming the largest online seller of books in the United States. Borders is developing a Kobo e-reader to try and compete, but with e-book readers from Amazon, Apple and Barnes & Noble, Borders may be living on borrowed time.
> 
> ...


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

I've been getting a bunch of e-mails from the Borders reward club to come in and buy books, now I know why.

I hope they don't go under, but if B and N buys them, then B and N owns ALL the major brick and mortar bookstores since they already own Waldensbooks, don't they?


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

My local Waldenbooks went out without being bought out by B & N.  So, I'm not quite sure...


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Actually, I think it's Borders that owns Waldenbooks.  When you do a store search on the Borders website, the Waldensbooks come up also.


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## Rye (Nov 18, 2008)

That's too bad. It's not a good thing to see a bookstore go out of business. There's already 2 B & N's in my area along with a Borders. If they were to acquire it they'd probably just shut the store down. They must feel that they are still in the game somewhat though, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to develop an e-reader. Hope they make it work.


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## DL_Snell (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah, Borders owns Waldenbooks. My local Walden closed at the beginning of 2010. This really sucks for employees, book buyers, and publishers. I, for one, will be affected, as Borders stocks my books.


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

Yes, I hope Borders is able to stay open. Bookstores just make me happy.
Barnes & Noble owns B. Dalton, but they liquidated that particular chain.


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

I have over $50 on a gift card from them.  I better get in and use it up before it isn't worth anything.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

<sigh> They do always seem full of people -- always a line at the checkout -- but I guess they have debts and expenses that are more than what they're making... Such a shame. I have a Borders and a B&N about the same distance away from me, and Borders just feels more inviting.

Then you see other kinds of stores selling overpriced junk, and they're always empty, and somehow they still stay in business for years.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

Oh man, if Borders goes out of business, I won't have a place to work. Seriously...I get 95% of my writing done there.

It's _always_ busy...I'll be crushed if it goes under.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Sad...just sad.
Borders has such a homey feel with the nooks and crannies a chair here a couch there....the cafe'. It reminds me of the coffee hangout on the TV show Friends. I'm not nuts about B & N's layout. It's too commercial and not cozy at all.

For me; it's the only place _close_ by to actually buy a book (especially non fiction) other than the local drug store. Can't pull up a chair or browse the business or travel section there!! 360 million+ in the red doesn't sound so good...I'm depressed.

I do a lot of my Christmas shopping there. They have GREAT deals.

It's a sad thing.


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## threeundertwo (Jul 25, 2009)

It is surprising, since the store near me always seems packed.  But both of the Borders that I know of in this area are just huge - a lot of space to rent, a lot of employees to keep on staff, and a lot of inventory to fill it.  I can see how it could be difficult to remain profitable.  If they had an online bookstore, I never used it, and I think that's a big key to B&N's survival.

If Borders goes, that will only leave B&N around here.  Oh how I miss Crown books, B. Dalton, and especially Tower books!


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

threeundertwo said:


> Oh how I miss Crown books, B. Dalton, and especially Tower books!


I still think of Crown as a little local chain here in the DC area... never realized how far they had expanded across the country!


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## DL_Snell (Mar 20, 2010)

I've been in a few Waldenbooks, but have only visited Borders once, a branch in Pittsburgh. I swung by to sign their stock of BLOOD LITE (Harrison, Kenyon, Butcher, et al.). Really awesome store, and the chain has proved willing to work with independent (even POD) publishers. I hope somehow they stabilize.

Has anyone heard more about their possible Kobo eBook reader?


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Kobo:

http://www.kobobooks.com/?utm_source=TSA&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google&refcd=GO2203760S_kobo_ebook&tsacr=GO4481650840&gclid=CLG36PCq9KACFSNsgwod6S9qtw


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## Ilovetoread (Apr 4, 2010)

I don't know what the rest of the country is like, but I have 2 Barnes and Nobles and 2 Borders within 5 miles of my house. I love bookstores, but that seems like it would be hard for all 4 stores to make money situated like that.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I am afraid this is just the beginning.  Book stores will go as records stores have after the digital boom.  Such a shame, I too love books and book stores.  I noticed for the first time that Best Buy now has a best seller rack.  Unfortunately, what that means is you will see the same few books from the same few publishers in a bunch of stores like Walmart, Target, Best Buy, etc.  And if you want a book that isnt a best seller or by a huge publishing company, you wont be able to go to a store and buy it.

Its like our movies.  There are interesting ones that come out, but try to find a movie theater playing them.  The movie distributors say what goes to what movie theater.  Unfortuntely, most weekends I pick up a paper to see what is playing only to find our locat 30 screen theater is play about 6-7 different movies, all aimed at kids.  Even though I love going to the movies, I rarely find anything close I want to see.  There is The Angelika in Dallas, but who wants to drive 80 miles round trip in Dallas traffic?


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## Anso (Jan 27, 2010)

All the Borders stores in the UK closed down a few weeks back. They are just empty buildings now


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## rla1996 (Oct 28, 2008)

For me it doesn't really come down to Borders or Barnes and Noble because both stores are a good half hour drive from where I live.  -Apparently people on my side of town either do not read or get all their books at Walmart or Target.  Even then things aren't so good because the Walmart near me shrunk the English book section in order to carry more books in Spanish.  Needless to say I wasn't happy.  Thats one of the reasons I got a Kindle.


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## angelad (Jun 19, 2009)

Anso said:


> All the Borders stores in the UK closed down a few weeks back. They are just empty buildings now


They are still bumping in US though


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Two things:

1. Border's is HUGE...The three that I have been in are massive in size. I wonder if they could restructure and downsize a bit? I agree, we will eventually be stuck with the aforementioned places, Target, Walmart...ETC...

2. *This situation is very similar* to that of: MANY video stores closing. (We've had 3 biggies close) *Netflix* really had the edge with no late fees, keep as long as you want, no traveling back and forth, watch on instant queue besides the mailer discs. I can't tell you the last time I went to a video store!! Very convenient...just like Whispernet...very convenient.


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## Cindy416 (May 2, 2009)

I have been buying my books for several years at Borders. Their discount coupons are wonderful, and the selection is great. On the rare occasion that I buy a regular book, I either buy it from Borders or Amazon. I hate to see the stores have to close. Maybe someone will buy them out. Around where I live, there aren't any B&N stores, just Hastings and Borders.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

angelad said:


> They are still bumping in US though


Yeah...but that's what we thought about our Circuit City. The only, and I mean only, major electronics store in our area (it's like they have a Monopoly) is BEST BUY. Tweeter, Bernie's, Circuit City have all gone out locally.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

I love Borders.  There's a Borders and a B&N within a block or two of each other.  I don't care for B&N.  Never have.  Borders is like a candy store for me.  Yummmm!


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Tis the way of the retail world.

Growing up I saw the Woolworths replaced by the K-Marts, then the Wal-Marts all but wiped out the K-Marts. Shopping malls wiped out the department stores. Now the e~tailers are starting to wipe out the retailers. Change is inevitable.

Borders and Barnes & Nobel wiped out a _lot_ of independent books stores. My favorite local bookstore growing up went out of business years and years ago. Now it's Borders turn as the Amazons replace them. IMO B&N won't be far behind and no, I absolutely don't see them trying to acquire Borders.

Personally I like shopping online. Better prices and a much, much bigger variety. I have access to more stuff than I ever dreamed of, all with reviews.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

oh we were discussing this in another thread a week or two ago. If course I don't want to see all those people out of work, but Borders doesn't have the selection ( and yes I still buy a significant number of DTBs) nor the prices of Amazon. Hence they lost my business long ago, except for rare occastions. I go there maybe once a year now.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Rasputina:  While I agree with you on the pricing and such...
For me Borders was a community thing.  A meeting place (much like these Boards) where people could go and do all that we do here; but in person...with the 'book smell' as an added bonus.  My local Border's draws quite the crowd.  They have events, book signings, childrens hour...etc.  Young and Old alike enjoyed it.  I think some took advantage of the free WiFi though.

Forster:  Were we twins in another life?  I used to love Woolworths...and guess what?  That is the Borders here locally...the old Woolworths!!  They moved in (after much renovation) to the old Woolworths.  Even the Woolworths had a sense of community...the little luncheonette where people would meet and discuss various topics over a cuppa and the newspaper.  

You are right:  I just feel that everything from books to Netflix and Amazon are all things that one can do sitting alone.  I will just miss the sense of community...the meeting place.  I guess the internet and forums and Facebook are the new meeting places; minus the physical being.  It just seems all so mechanical and cold.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

The net is _a_ new meeting place, but there is a lot of community out there not in the retail world. I live in a relatively small town now and can't go anywhere where I don't know someone. One of my favorite community events are the arts. We have two really good non profit arts organizations where I live, one brings in 5 acts the other 4 per year. One of them also does a concert in the park series every Weds in July. I actually got to see Midori a couple of years ago. She played to a crowd of about 200 in our HS auditorium.

My wife also belongs to the local Shakespeare club and gets to read and discuss books with all the members, no such group for the guys though, we go trap shooting, lol.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

sjc said:


> You are right: I just feel that everything from books to Netflix and Amazon are all things that one can do sitting alone. *I will just miss the sense of community...the meeting place. I guess the internet and forums and Facebook are the new meeting places; minus the physical being. It just seems all so mechanical and cold.*


Except for KindleBoards, of course. 

Not all towns have that sense of community... and not everyone's lifestyle lends itself to regular in-person socializing.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Sadly, Borders has been on the brink of going out of business for awhile now. The closest one to me is in Annapolis, and there has been talk for 2 years now that it won't be around much longer. Somehow it's managed to survive. I probably buy books (mainly for the BRATs) equally from Borders, Amazon & B&N these days. With my educator's discount at B&N and Borders, it's usually close to the same price as Amazon.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

That is probably inadvertently caused a problem for Borders...too much community...and no buying.
Last time I went (2 weeks ago):

There were a bunch of people sitting reading (not buying...reading and then putting back)
Many on Laptops in the Cafe' (using WiFi...not buying)
2 Women were playing Scrabble (not buying)...I so wanted to join them. I would have showed them how it's really done 
A few people doing homework
My DH and I (guilty...) reviewing travel brochures that we brought in...though I did buy: a coffee, a chai, pastry and a huge A-Z gardening encyclopedia for my DD.

I just wish that they would downsize...get rid of the nick-nacs, the games, the music, videos, exercise supplies, stoneware, etc... Just be a quaint bookstore with comfie chairs and a cafe.  Then, maybe they could survive.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

sjc said:


> I just wish that they would downsize...get rid of the nick-nacs, the games, the music, videos, exercise supplies, stoneware, etc... Just be a quaint bookstore with comfie chairs and a cafe. Then, maybe they could survive.


The profit on those things is higher than on books, though.... so the extras bring them a bit closer to surviving.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Susan:  A very valid point.
Can you see I'm grasping at the save Border's straws here...lol.

The only place we will have the "book smell" as soon as we walk in the doors is the Library. (and even that may become a thing of the past)


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

As much as I love Kindlboards, it isnt the same for me as bein out amongst people.  I am an introvert and most times I am more than happy to be by myself or with my husband alone.  But the times when I want to have fellowship, I want real people.  Book stores are great.  There are also a few little coffee shops and cafes I frequent also.  Never been a bar person.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

KindleChickie said:


> As much as I love Kindlboards, it isnt the same for me as bein out amongst people. I am an introvert and most times I am more than happy to be by myself or with my husband alone. But the times when I want to have fellowship, I want real people. Book stores are great. There are also a few little coffee shops and cafes I frequent also. Never been a bar person.


Ditto: I can be alone for days on end...In fact DH and I haven't been out with other couples since last August. We are content just being little old us. BUT...we each have our thing that we like: Mine happens to be Books, Borders and these Boards...and because he has no interest in those things; I seek fellow enablers. I love Scrabble; he doesn't play...that doesn't mean that I never play...I just have to find someone who does. (Though he pacifies me once in a blue moon.)


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

Before they closed our Dennys down, they had a game night once a week.  I think it was Thursdays, but cant recall.  People would show up with their game boards and play all sorts of games.  One pair of guys told me they had been showing up to play since they were teenagers.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Isn't that sweet?
That's what I mean; sometimes technology interferes with the basics.

My Dad played a card game with his buddies every Saturday afternoon from the age of 8 until he lost them all; as he is now 83.  The last one just passed in September.


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## planet_janet (Feb 23, 2010)

So sad. I love Borders...just walking in and breathing in that wonderful new book smell always makes the visit worthwhile.  Taking my children to Borders and looking at books with them is one of my favorite things to do.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

I used to work for Borders back in the early and mid 90s before the Internet and Amazon.  It was the happening place for people who loved books back then.  I worked in the Rockville, MD store when it was the only Borders on the entire east coast.  The selection was stunning and deep.  The rare odd book that would sell one or two copies per year were what drew readers in from Virginia, Maryland, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Delewere.   The cash registers were so busy they almost started smoking from over use on the weekends.  The booksellers had to pass a book knowledge test too.  

But sadly Borders has been in decline for many years and the stock is, bluntly, a piss poor pile of bestsellers and other popular turds.  There is no discovery of obscure and wonderful titles hidden on the shelf.  Instead, there are three and a half shelves of Sookie Stackhouse books, a whole case of Media Tie-Ins,  and no Wyndham Lewis.  Browsing used to be fun, when there was something to find, but if it's only piles of this and stacks of that, I'm going to done looking quickly.

I'm not sure what the future of brick and mortar bookselling will be like, but unfortunately I don't see how Borders can pull out of this slump.  They need something to bring in customers, but I don't see what they can offer at this time.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

Geemont said:


> I used to work for Borders back in the early and mid 90s before the Internet and Amazon. It was the happening place for people who loved books back then. I worked in the Rockville, MD store when it was the only Borders on the entire east coast. The selection was stunning and deep. The rare odd book that would sell one or two copies per year were what drew readers in from Virginia, Maryland, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Delewere. The cash registers were so busy they almost started smoking from over use on the weekends. The booksellers had to pass a book knowledge test too.
> 
> But sadly Borders has been in decline for many years and the stock is, bluntly, a p*ss poor pile of bestsellers and other popular turds. There is no discovery of obscure and wonderful titles hidden on the shelf. Instead, there are three and a half shelves of Sookie Stackhouse books, a whole case of Media Tie-Ins, and no Wyndham Lewis. Browsing used to be fun, when there was something to find, but if it's only piles of this and stacks of that, I'm going to done looking quickly.
> 
> I'm not sure what the future of brick and mortar bookselling will be like, but unfortunately I don't see how Borders can pull out of this slump. They need something to bring in customers, but I don't see what they can offer at this time.


+1 to every single word.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

Susan in VA said:


> The profit on those things is higher than on books, though.... so the extras bring them a bit closer to surviving.


In theory yes, sometimes higher yield items work. But I think in the case of Borders, the problem is that the majority of Borders shoppers are shopping for books, and all those extras that they carry are at best 'impulse items.' However those impulse items can usually be found cheaper two doors down in another specialty store. In my experience, every Borders store I've encountered are usually in proliferate neighborhoods where you're also within spitting distance of Bed Bath & Beyond, Tower/Virgin Records, Video Stores, Crate & Barrel, Hallmark, Starbucks, GnC, etc... Impulse items should be items that the customer will want, and be too inconvenient to go elsewhere in the immediate future.

As a result, all those high yield items just don't sell and now the stores are sitting on product they can't unload.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

DenverRalphy said:


> In theory yes, sometimes higher yield items work. But I think in the case of Borders, the problem is that the majority of Borders shoppers are shopping for books, and all those extras that they carry are at best 'impulse items.' However those impulse items can usually be found cheaper two doors down in another specialty store. In my experience, every Borders store I've encountered are usually in proliferate neighborhoods where you're also within spitting distance of Bed Bath & Beyond, Tower/Virgin Records, Video Stores, Crate & Barrel, Hallmark, Starbucks, GnC, etc... Impulse items should be items that the customer will want, and be too inconvenient to go elsewhere in the immediate future.
> 
> As a result, all those high yield items just don't sell and now the stores are sitting on product they can't unload.


They are over priced. Don't forget; there is now a Dollar Store practically on every corner.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

DenverRalphy said:


> In theory yes, sometimes higher yield items work. But I think in the case of Borders, the problem is that the majority of Borders shoppers are shopping for books, and all those extras that they carry are at best 'impulse items.' However those impulse items can usually be found cheaper two doors down in another specialty store. In my experience, every Borders store I've encountered are usually in proliferate neighborhoods where you're also within spitting distance of Bed Bath & Beyond, Tower/Virgin Records, Video Stores, Crate & Barrel, Hallmark, Starbucks, GnC, etc... Impulse items should be items that the customer will want, and be too inconvenient to go elsewhere in the immediate future.
> 
> As a result, all those high yield items just don't sell and now the stores are sitting on product they can't unload.


That's true. But if they used that square footage for books instead, those would be something other than the bestsellers that already occupy so much space, and the limited-interest books they might add wouldn't bring in very much either.

OK, question for everyone: What would make you buy more at Borders? What would they have to do (or sell) to get you to spend more money there?


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

> OK, question for everyone: What would make you buy more at Borders? What would they have to do (or sell) to get you to spend more money there?


I think I spend a fair amount there already. I like their discount coupons. What would they have to do: lower prices to be more competitive; and I don't think they can. I do admit; since having an e-reader, I buy less DTBs.


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## WilliamM (Feb 10, 2009)

sjc said:


> I feel bad...I love the smell when you first walk in. I enjoy going to Border's. They offer free Wi-fi and they seem to always be busy. There are always people in line to pay. They draw a good night crowd at the cafe'. I guess many were sitting but not spending and just mooching the free Wi-Fi. I thought they and the e books could both coexist in harmony. I really do feel badly about it. I hope Barnes and Noble takes over. I LOVE my Kindle; but I also like a nice bookstore.


i can tell you from an ex-employee point of view..90 eprcent of the people who come to store..dont buy anything...95 percent of my job was cleaning up the cafe and the store and reshelving books and magazines that people would browse through and just leave on the table or floor and not put back
buy one cup of coffee and use all the books to do homework, busienss, etc..then leave
no wonder they are going under
and then they charge full price for what is essentially a used book at that point


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> OK, question for everyone: What would make you buy more at Borders? What would they have to do (or sell) to get you to spend more money there?


I am a Borders Rewards member. E-mail me a good coupon and I HAVE to use it. Good reason for a trip to Borders. I definitely buy more books there than any place else. Even more than Amazon -- though I have Amazon Prime.

But to increase sales, my Borders (Oak Brook, IL -- the largest or near largest in the U.S.) has devoted more floor space to all the vampire-related books, materials, etc. I don't know what all that is as I have NO interest in it. The book subjects I am interested in have been way reduced. If vampires help to actually increase sales, OK. But I am not spending as much as I was there. Not buying any place else either. They do have a very knowledgeable salesperson in the DVD / CD sections. Any questions, he has the answers. Sometimes get some tech help with my TV, TiVo, etc. At one time, he had his own TV / home theater business. He is a draw to get me in the store too.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

Susan in VA said:


> OK, question for everyone: What would make you buy more at Borders? What would they have to do (or sell) to get you to spend more money there?


For me, it would be convenience and accessibility.. Since I would literally pass by two B&N's along the route to the closest Borders (here in Colorado, there are nowhere near as many Borders stores as there are B&N), I wind up stopping at the store closest to me.


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## Asphodel (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm sad to hear this...Borders was always my favorite book store. Unfortunately, I don't have one near me where I live now, so I haven't visited a Borders since the last time I spent some time in my hometown rather than just passing through for a quick family visit.

Since I got my Kindle, I hardly ever buy DTBs anymore, so it's hard to say what Borders could do to gain my business if I had one in town. I do enjoy browsing books and drinking coffee as a leisure activity, but I honestly rarely buy the ones I browse from the store, rather, I mentally bookmark them for future Kindle purchase if they are available. 

If I could buy ebooks from Borders that I could read on the Kindle, I would gladly do so. It might be a nice feature if they had some kind of kiosk in the store where you could purchase an ebook version of a book you browsed through in the store. Maybe you could get a discount code with that cup of coffee! 

Just random ideas.


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## threeundertwo (Jul 25, 2009)

I haven't bought a paper book since I got my Kindle last June.  When my kids were little, I considered bookstores based on their children's sections.  Borders had a huge selection.  Now that my kids are 12 and 13, they go to the library themselves, and no longer need the incentive of book ownership to read.  

I don't know how Borders could do any better in this arena, they already have a lot of floorspace devoted to children's books and as I recall, they offer family story times etc.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I ate over my folks tonight and broke the news to Dad:
He is one upset 83 year old.  "Now where am I going to get my gardening books?"  The thoughts of him ordering online make him shiver.

**One thought:  this is bad for people who don't have access to the internet or don't use credit cards.

My Dad has both; but he will end up nagging me to do it at my house; on my card, have them mail it to me, and I deliver it to him on a silver platter and he reimburses me when the bill comes in.  And I probably will do it, because I never say no. I will end up being his personal "Border's".


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

You will be his personal "Amazon's"


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

[quoteYou will be his personal "Amazon's" ][/quote]
Nope...He'll still call it Borders...

He hates change. Our local gas station was Lil' General 30 years ago...then it was DBMart, Hess,...Dad still gets his gas at Lil' General.


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