# WHSmith removing all self-published titles; Offline Statement (MERGED)



## KCHawkings (Jul 20, 2011)

So WHSmith, one of the largest book retailers in the UK, have announced they're removing all self-published titles. In the meantime they've shut down their website and http://www.whsmith.co.uk/ now directs to a statement from them. For those not a fan of links:

A statement from WHSmith:

Last week we were made aware that a number of unacceptable titles were
appearing on our website through the Kobo website that has an automated
feed to ours. This is an industry wide issue impacting retailers that
sell self published eBooks due to the explosion of self publishing,
which in the main is good as it gives new authors the opportunity to get
their content published. However we are disgusted by these particular
titles, find this unacceptable and we in no way whatsoever condone
them.

It is our policy not to feature titles like those highlighted and we
have processes in place to screen them out. We offer over one million
titles through our eBooks partner Kobo, many of which are self-published
titles. Due to the massive amount of self publishing a number of these
titles have got through the screening process.

We are taking immediate steps to have them all removed. While we are
doing this we have decided to take our website off-line to best protect
our customers and the public. Our website will become live again once
all self published eBooks have been removed and we are totally sure that
there are no offending titles available. When our website goes back
online it will not display any self published material until we are
completely confident that inappropriate books can never be shown again.

We sincerely apologise for any offence caused.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Wow...they're serious. The money they must be loosing every hour of every day is not something you take lightly.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Sad, but another turn in the way the industry is changing. 
I'm guessing they're referring to over-the-top pornography. We're seeing a similar "clean-up" at KDP, from what I gather. Or perhaps stolen or poorly produced material? Retailers have to balance their public image with giving people what they want. 

Like email spammers, there are those who are taking advantage of the system as they look for ways to get rich quick, to the detriment of all. Let's hope this doesn't bite all of us in the butt and result in another layer of gatekeepers.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

This was on the news here today. What happened was that some erotica titles slipped into the children's section because of the keyword "daddy" You can probably guess what kind of porn would use that keyword.

WH Smith could be a trend that will affect us all. They aren't banning erotica they are banning everything not from the big 5

This is just a massive extension of the Zon's dungeon in a way, but at least zon didn't ban everything along with the titles they don't like.


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

Haha, I thought they went out of business years ago.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

markecooper said:


> WH Smith could be a trend that will affect us all. They aren't banning erotica they are banning everything not from the big 5


I didn't read the quote that way. I thought it says they are only not displaying self-published material (and then only until they have better checks in place) on their website. It says nothing about only displaying titles published by the Big Five, so presumably small press titles will be okay. Or am I reading it incorrectly?


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

markecooper said:


> This was on the news here today. What happened was that some erotica titles slipped into the children's section because of the keyword "daddy" You can probably guess what kind of porn would use that keyword.


This could be a result of people playing coy with covers and titles to avoid that dungeon. It slips by the filters and messes up categories and keyword logistics. Again, to the detriment of the rest of the system. 
Porn is porn and if the resellers want to keep it behind the curtain in the corner then that's their way of doing business.

Easy to say that WH.Smith is not a major player - it could also be a portent of things to come. No doubt Kobo isn't happy right now and looking at their own system.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Sam Kates said:


> I didn't read the quote that way. I thought it says they are only not displaying self-published material (and then only until they have better checks in place) on their website. It says nothing about only displaying titles published by the Big Five, so presumably small press titles will be okay. Or am I reading it incorrectly?


Wouldn't take much to set up a company and call yourself a small press, would it?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

markecooper said:


> WH Smith could be a trend that will affect us all. They aren't banning erotica they are banning everything not from the big 5


They're doing this because of some bosom-hoisting at the Daily Mail. It's a bit silly of them given that they've been struggling for years.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Actually, I read that totally differently from how the rest of you guys did. It looks to me like they are removing _all _of the titles _which they find offensive_, but are generally okay with self-published stuff as long as it's not the "disgusting" kind.

Frankly, I think it's dumb that companies feel they need to police what people buy. As long as the content isn't breaking any laws (child exploitation, etc.) then allow consumers to make up their own minds whether they want to purchase it or not. I hate the regulation of individuals' minds and bodies. But I guess it's their call if they want to lose money -- both with the site shut-down and by not selling to people who want to buy unconventional erotica.

I like how they don't specify which titles were so disgusting to them. I really, really hope it was the dinosaur porn.


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

For US readers, WH Smith is the biggest Hight St stationer/newsvendor in the UK. It sells books and CDs etc too.

Amazon's removal of 'abuse-themed books', is the lead story in the Technology section of BBC Online (see extract below).

The WH Smith comment strikes me as aggressively defensive (if that makes sense) suggesting, to me at least, that they had no filtering policy in place. If they did have one, and it was as efficient as they are implying in that only a few titles slipped through, such draconian action would be unncessary; they could simply have tweaked their filters.

BBC story:



> Retailer Amazon has removed several abuse-themed e-books from its Kindle Store after a report highlighted titles depicting rape, incest and bestiality.
> 
> Titles such as Taking My Drunk Daughter had been on sale.
> 
> ...


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## KCHawkings (Jul 20, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Actually, I read that totally differently from how the rest of you guys did. It looks to me like they are removing _all _of the titles _which they find offensive_, but are generally okay with self-published stuff as long as it's not the "disgusting" kind.


I read it that way too, until I got to "Our website will become live again once all self published eBooks have been removed..."


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> I really, really hope it was the dinosaur porn.


   



> When our website goes back online it will not display any self published material until we are completely confident that inappropriate books can never be shown again.


This could mean anything up to and including "we can't figure this out so we just won't publish ANY indies"


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Quiss said:


> Wouldn't take much to set up a company and call yourself a small press, would it?


True, but calling myself a small press and actually being one aren't the same thing. A true small press would publish books by more than one author, wouldn't it? I guess even that would be get-roundable, so maybe Mark is right. But this only applies to the content of their website, yes? It doesn't mean they are going to start removing small press books from their shops, or at least that's how I read it. If that were to happen, it would be a shame indeed. Our local branch stocks a variety of small-press publications, often with a local flavour, that wouldn't be of global appeal, but are of great interest to local people.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

I wasn't aware that WHSmith had an online retail presence, but knew them from every airport bookstore here in America.  It's a shame that such drastic measures were taken, but I hope that it results in a more workable solution to this issue.  Several erotica authors here on the boards have suggested an adult filter toggle, and it seems like such an easy first step.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

It’s all probably a normal stage of the industry self-regulating itself. Fascinating to see how it develops. Hope we all don’t have to “fade to dark” when our characters are off to express their love to one another. That would be sad.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

That's what they get for being lazy.  If WHSmith feels they have an image or reputation to maintain, that's fine.  They should have been filtering books from day one instead of simply automating it from another website.  This appears to be a classic throwing out the baby with the bath water reaction.  There goes the porn along with 20% of the worlds best sellers.

It will go a few different ways.  They lose customers because what they are looking for, can't be found as people like to shop from one spot, not all over.  They quit being lazy and filter the products they determine to be unfit for their website.  Or they become the niche online book store that doesn't have the sea of crap by selling only clean, vetted, edited books from draconian institutes.


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## SeanBlack (May 13, 2010)

WH Smith, which is a major UK book retailer has taken down its website offline following the recent controversy over certain titles.

http://www.whsmith.co.uk

The statement is here (my highlighting):

A statement from WHSmith:

Last week we were made aware that a number of unacceptable titles were appearing on our website through the Kobo website that has an automated feed to ours. This is an industry wide issue impacting retailers that
sell self published eBooks due to the explosion of self publishing, which in the main is good as it gives new authors the opportunity to get their content published. However we are disgusted by these particular titles, find this unacceptable and we in no way whatsoever condone them.

It is our policy not to feature titles like those highlighted and we have processes in place to screen them out. We offer over one million titles through our eBooks partner Kobo, many of which are self-published
titles. Due to the massive amount of self publishing a number of these titles have got through the screening process.

We are taking immediate steps to have them all removed. While we are doing this we have decided to take our website off-line to best protect our customers and the public. Our website will become live again once all self published eBooks have been removed and we are totally sure that there are no offending titles available. *When our website goes back online it will not display any self published material until we are completely confident that inappropriate books can never be shown again.*

We sincerely apologise for any offence caused."

Where to start with this? I know people are upset by these titles, but talk about an over-reaction.

Did they speak to Kobo?

Whether retailers like it or not, self-published titles are a big chunk of the market now. This seems beyond silly.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

No problem, Sean, I've merged it with the other thread.

Sorry for any confusion.

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

Rats  

Where am I going to go now for my tentacle sex fix?

I'm actually quite surprised WHSmith's hasn't got the same way as Woolies.


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## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

I suggest everyone should publish each other's books through the other's publishing company, that way we're not _self_-published anymore. Technically speaking.

I find it unbelievable they are getting rid of all self-published stuff. That's either a very poorly worded statement, or they are quite dumb.

I write erotica, but I hardly think it's fair someone who writes self-published kids books, or whatever, should be punished. But this is the way the snowball goes I suppose. Really dumb statement on WHSmiths part. I'll boycott their ass whenever I'm in the U.K now.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

When you publish on Kobo, there's an Erotica category (with several subcategories.)

If WHSmith doesn't want erotica, it seems like an easy fix to filter on that category.  Sounds like this is either grandstanding, or them trying to cover up for their own stupidity.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

swolf said:


> When you publish on Kobo, there's an Erotica category (with several subcategories.)
> 
> If WHSmith doesn't want erotica, it seems like an easy fix to filter on that category. Sounds like this is either grandstanding, or them trying to cover up for their own stupidity.


I don't think it's quite so easy. I was one of the first authors to be filtered on Amazon way back when and that book, which was categorized properly as erotica, was showing up in the parenting books section.  That definitely caused some problems, but I didn't do anything wrong. (I calculate I lost about $5,000 at least in income due to that snafu. Thanks Amazon. You're not just a puritan, but one with crappy IT.)

These tech platforms don't seem to be very reliable. What's really weird imo is that Smashwords has had an adult filter from day one and they've never been considered to be ahead of the tech curve. Yet they manage to do what no one else in this industry does...properly segregate content and give readers the choice of seeing it.

M


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## P.C. (Peter) Anders (Feb 6, 2013)

Harper Alibeck said:


> Non-erotic romances are being stripped out on Amazon, though. Books in the romance category with perfectly clean covers, for instance. Amazon appears to be using some sort of automated process where they're targeting certain words (like "virgin") for self-pubbed works.


So no travel books mentioning Virgin Airlines, or biographies of Virgin founder Richard Branson, I suppose.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

P.C. (Peter) Anders said:


> So no travel books mentioning Virgin Airlines, or biographies of Virgin founder Richard Branson, I suppose.


Oh no, trad pubbed books are fine, it's just indies who can't use the word virgin.

M


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Austin_Briggs said:


> It's all probably a normal stage of the industry self-regulating itself. Fascinating to see how it develops. Hope we all don't have to "fade to dark" when our characters are off to express their love to one another. That would be sad.


Seems to me there'd be crazy-good money in a web site that just sold erotica ebooks. Nobody could remove titles from there!

If only I knew how to code...arrrgh!!!


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

mrv01d said:


> I don't think it's quite so easy. I was one of the first authors to be filtered on Amazon way back when and that book, which was categorized properly as erotica, was showing up in the parenting books section.  That definitely caused some problems, but I didn't do anything wrong. (I calculate I lost about $5,000 at least in income due to that snafu. Thanks Amazon. You're not just a puritan, but one with crappy IT.)
> 
> These tech platforms don't seem to be very reliable. What's really weird imo is that Smashwords has had an adult filter from day one and they've never been considered to be ahead of the tech curve. Yet they manage to do what no one else in this industry does...properly segregate content and give readers the choice of seeing it.
> 
> M


When Kobo ships to WHSmith, they have to be providing categories, otherwise it would just be a huge mishmash of books. All WHSmith has to do it tell Kobo not to ship any book that has the Erotica category attached.

If books are slipping through after than, then Kobo has to start banning erotica books that haven't been given erotica categories. Authors will get the message.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Seems to me there'd be crazy-good money in a web site that just sold erotica ebooks. Nobody could remove titles from there!
> 
> If only I knew how to code...arrrgh!!!


Ha, I was thinking about that, too. And I can probably hire a designer / coder.

The problem is... I'll have to carry a ton of "way-out-there" smut that I personally dislike, because there's always someone pushing the boundaries of good sense. I don't want spending my time sensoring that stuff.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Seems to me there'd be crazy-good money in a web site that just sold erotica ebooks. Nobody could remove titles from there!
> 
> If only I knew how to code...arrrgh!!!


It's not the coding that's an issue, it's the financial vendors that are a problem. The previous round of book banning was driven by Paypal and Mastercard deciding they wouldn't allow their services to be used for erotica. You can build the site, but finding someone to process the payments is supremely difficult.

M


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

swolf said:


> When Kobo ships to WHSmith, they have to be providing categories, otherwise it would just be a huge mishmash of books. All WHSmith has to do it tell Kobo not to ship any book that has the Erotica category attached.
> 
> If books are slipping through after than, then Kobo has to start banning erotica books that haven't been given erotica categories. Authors will get the message.


I don't disagree with you but it just seems that tech theory and practice are quite different. Flubs are the norm it seems.

M


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## ravis36 (Oct 9, 2013)

In principle I agree with what WHSmith have done, but I am worried, this could badly affect other self-published books as well.  This could have a cascading effect and influence other retailers.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

This feels like the way email spam filters came into being.

Some jerks took advantage of the advent of email to ruin it for everyone.
Then developers started to work on spam filters. They have become quite good at that (I hardly ever get any on my gmail and yahoo accounts these days) but in the process it often happens that mail you actually WANT gets hung up in these filters. 

Our college was recently hit with a phishing scam and FIVE students fell for it. That was enough to launch a whole lot of spam from their email addresses. As a result, the entire school was filtered as spam by yahoo and a few other hosts, until our IT people sorted that out.

There won't be a one-size-fits all solution until people stop trying to game the system. Which isn't likely.
So there goes David's nun


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Austin_Briggs said:


> Ha, I was thinking about that, too. And I can probably hire a designer / coder.
> 
> The problem is... I'll have to carry a ton of "way-out-there" smut that I personally dislike, because there's always someone pushing the boundaries of good sense. I don't want spending my time sensoring that stuff.


Yeah, maybe running a porn website isn't for you.


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## BillSmithBooksDotCom (Nov 4, 2012)

I don't understand why Amazon and WHSmith can't filter this properly. 

Smashwords' adult filter works quite well.


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

swolf said:


> When you publish on Kobo, there's an Erotica category (with several subcategories.)
> 
> If WHSmith doesn't want erotica, it seems like an easy fix to filter on that category. Sounds like this is either grandstanding, or them trying to cover up for their own stupidity.


Sadly not all writers are honest about stuff like this, esp. if they think they may get locked out of certain booksellers.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

WH Smith have been removing print books from their shops for a while. Go into most branches now and it's filled with stationery, DVDs, magazines and half of it was a post office, where the books used to be. Yes, there are some books but not as many as they used to do. I no longer think of them as a bookshop so it isn't surprising that they want to delete ebooks too. I don't think I've ever sold any there, but my books did appear via smashwords so I'd linked them on my website. Some more website tidying up to do.

There are some books I don't want to read, but I don't want to stop other people from reading whatever they want. If smashwords can put on an adult filter, why can't the rest? Surely that would be an easy thing to implement? I think the market may be crying out for an adult bookstore online, but I don't know anything about building one ;-)

I read Flowers in the Attic when I was 14, from the school library, LOL!


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## 71089 (Jul 12, 2013)

Harper Alibeck said:


> Meanwhile Flowers in the Attic features an incest story between two underage characters and a rape scene. It's up. Published by Simon & Schuster (with a disturbingly New Adult cover)
> 
> Tampa features graphic sex between a 20something teacher and a 14 year old student. Not for "literary merit", either (read it to find your own opinion). It's up. Published by HarperCollins.


Uhh ... I can't believe this is from S&S. Look at the blurb:

_All across America and around the world, millions of readers have been captivated by this strange, dark, terriifying tale of passion and peril in the lives of four innoocent children, locked away from the world by a selfish mother.

Flowers in the Attic is the novel that launched the extraordinary career of V.C. Andrews®, winning her an immediate and fiercely devoted worldwide following; today there are more than 85 million copies of her books in print._

Spell check, anyone?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Harper Alibeck said:


> Meanwhile Flowers in the Attic features an incest story between two underage characters and a rape scene. It's up. Published by Simon & Schuster (with a disturbingly New Adult cover)
> 
> Tampa features graphic sex between a 20something teacher and a 14 year old student. Not for "literary merit", either (read it to find your own opinion). It's up. Published by HarperCollins.


Exactly. And if other people want to read what I consider filth, that is strictly their business and none of mine.

This looks to me like an excuse not to simply put in an adult filter which would be the grownup thing to do instead of having a hissy fit about how bad indies are. But that would mean books like Flowers in the Attic possibly getting filtered and Oh Nos we can't have that.


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

For all the talk about self-pubs, I see a lot of trad-pub typos in 100 word blurbs on Amazon, too. And sometimes they're blurbs about classics.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Seems to me there'd be crazy-good money in a web site that just sold erotica ebooks. Nobody could remove titles from there!
> 
> If only I knew how to code...arrrgh!!!


You can hire a coder from oDesk for a few hundred bucks you could have your site. Driving traffic, marketing the site, dedicated servers, building a subscriber mailing list, that's the tough and expensive part which is why not everyone can launch a BookBub type site. They spent a lot of money to build that mailing list and get readers to find their website. The website coding is the easy part.

It sure looks like the shift is back to the days of hiding it all away in the back of the room of video stores for hardcore erotica ebooks.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

This is in the context of some small tech website in the UK known for not paying its writers kicking up a great stink about all the "filth" being available at Amazon, Kobo, B&N and W.H. Smith. They also seem to have made a sport out of reporting books (mostly pseudo-incest) they find objectionable. Amazon and Kobo ignored the jerks, but W.H. Smith, having an "image" to maintain in the UK (though I have seen Big 6 print erotica on their shelves in their physical stores) blocked all indies.

We are extensively discussing this in the long erotica ban thread and this thread.

That's why I speak out in favour of erotica writers, even though I don't write erotica and don't find pseudo-incest the least bit appealing. Because it takes just one a-hole like that Kernel guy to ruin it for all of us.


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## jenminkman (Mar 2, 2013)

I just went over to the WH Smith ebook store to check whether they sell my titles (I recently uploaded some new stuff via D2D) and it turns out they CLOSED the store so they can delete all self-pubbed titles from their store.   I'm guessing this has to do with porn titles appearing in the WH Smith online store. Customers must have complained about smut seeping in through the Kobo supply chain. Great... they're now using a one-size-fits-all approach to purge their site from smut. Look at this notice:

>>A statement from WHSmith:
Last week we were made aware that a number of unacceptable titles were appearing on our website through the Kobo website that has an automated feed to ours. This is an industry wide issue impacting retailers that sell self published eBooks due to the explosion of self publishing, which in the main is good as it gives new authors the opportunity to get their content published. However we are disgusted by these particular titles, find this unacceptable and we in no way whatsoever condone them. 

It is our policy not to feature titles like those highlighted and we have processes in place to screen them out. We offer over one million titles through our eBooks partner Kobo, many of which are self-published titles. Due to the massive amount of self publishing a number of these titles have got through the screening process. 

We are taking immediate steps to have them all removed. While we are doing this we have decided to take our website off-line to best protect our customers and the public. Our website will become live again once all self published eBooks have been removed and we are totally sure that there are no offending titles available. When our website goes back online it will not display any self published material until we are completely confident that inappropriate books can never be shown again. 

We sincerely apologise for any offence caused.<<

Does this mean indies won't be featured AT ALL in WH Smith online stores in the future? That would be a REAL bummer.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164749.0.html


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## jenminkman (Mar 2, 2013)

Oops... sorry for overlooking the other thread!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> Seems to me there'd be crazy-good money in a web site that just sold erotica ebooks. Nobody could remove titles from there!
> 
> If only I knew how to code...arrrgh!!!


It's not the technology of setting up a bookstore that is the problem for erotic content -- it's the payment processing. You risk forfeiture of all amounts collected and not yet paid if the processing company decides you violated their TOS.


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> It's not the technology of setting up a bookstore that is the problem for erotic content -- it's the payment processing. You risk forfeiture of all amounts collected and not yet paid if the processing company decides you violated their TOS.


What payment processors do porn sites use? Wouldn't whatever those are work for an erotica retail site as well?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

We'll all have to start using bitcoins.


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## Skye Hunter (Apr 30, 2013)

Wonder what this means for Kobo's relative acceptance of all things weird and nasty when it comes to erotica. I'm sure they can't be very happy about losing a potential revenue source here and might act to make some changes to their policies to remedy this.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

So much fuss over words on a page, eh?

This kind of brings back my awe for the power of writing.


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## @Suzanna (Mar 14, 2011)

I was following all the Kobo stuff pretty closely since I'm Canadian and I was routing for the little Canadian ebook store that could. When Kobo first partnered with WH Smith (before they sold to Rakuten) there was concern that such a partnership would lead to UK readers switching and buying their ebooks directly from Kobo. The partnership agreement, therefore, stated that WH Smith would receive a percentage of each book sold to a UK customer on the Kobo site. I suspect similar clauses are in effect elsewhere (I'd imagine Chapters/Indigo had a similar clause in their agreement when they sold to Rakuten), but I know for a fact that I read in several articles and news releases that this clause existed between Kobo and WH Smith. So while WH Smith is cleaning up their site they're still getting a kickback from UK sales on the Kobo site. It seems more than a little disingenuous to act all concerned and holier-than-thou when I'm sure they won't be returning any of the cheques Kobo sends them. 

ETA: Oh, and it's Thanksgiving tomorrow here in Canada. I wonder if anyone is even in the Kobo office to deal with this or if they're going to wait until they return to the office on Tuesday.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2013)

Sam Kates said:


> I didn't read the quote that way. I thought it says they are only not displaying self-published material (and then only until they have better checks in place) on their website. It says nothing about only displaying titles published by the Big Five, so presumably small press titles will be okay. Or am I reading it incorrectly?


Except may small presses use the same tools as self publishers these days. We use Smashwords and Createspace just like everyone else. There is no way to differentiate a self published book from a small press book through most of the commonly used channels.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Except may small presses use the same tools as self publishers these days. We use Smashwords and Createspace just like everyone else. There is no way to differentiate a self published book from a small press book through most of the commonly used channels.


Okay. Thanks. In my naivety, I thought there might be some sort of vetting process, but I guess that's highly impracticable with the sheer volume of books being published and, presumably, with a corresponding increase in the number of small press publishers. And it must be relatively easy to give the impression of being a small press while actually being a self-pubber so, volume aside, it would be a very difficult thing to vet.


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## KidSlumber (Aug 13, 2012)

I can't understand why online book stores such as Amazon did not clearly separate erotica from other genres from the get go. For example, until recently, a search of the Kindle store for 'bedtime stories' would result in a list that mixed children's fairy tales with stories that would shock a Scandinavian sailor, , surely an outcome that would offend customers looking for children's fiction and deter customers looking for erotica. Such poor filtering is bad for potential customers and for the reputation of the online book store. It is a mix-up that is unlikely to happen in a bricks and mortar store.

While Amazon's filtering is much improved,  , it's not perfect. A search for bedtime stories will still throw up some titles of graphic erotica (e.g. Thug Love Bedtime Stories).


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## Sebastiene (Dec 15, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Seems to me there'd be crazy-good money in a web site that just sold erotica ebooks. Nobody could remove titles from there!
> 
> If only I knew how to code...arrrgh!!!


They already exist. Before the rise of erotic romance five or six years ago, erotic romance readers were getting their fix from places like Ellora's Cave, Samhain Publishing, and Loose Id. Granted, with those, you had to essentially send in a query letter and deal with an editor, and a contract - at the time, usually a two year contract.

Now, there's AllRomance.com You can apply to be a publisher there, and if they accept you, you can put your books up for sale much like at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.


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## BillSmithBooksDotCom (Nov 4, 2012)

I wonder when the indignant and offended readers will demand that WH Smith ban those "other" books that contain such "filth" -- things like VC Andrews, Lolita, the Greek Myths & Oedipus, Shakespeare, the Bible, etc. 

They all have similar plot elements in them.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Sebastiene said:


> ....
> Now, there's AllRomance.com You can apply to be a publisher there, and if they accept you, you can put your books up for sale much like at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.


But AllRomance asks you not to upload your most dubious and kinky erotica ... the same taboo stuff 'zon is pulling down.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

mrv01d said:


> It's not the coding that's an issue, it's the financial vendors that are a problem. The previous round of book banning was driven by Paypal and Mastercard deciding they wouldn't allow their services to be used for erotica. You can build the site, but finding someone to process the payments is supremely difficult.
> 
> M


No, that's not a problem.

There are scripts for sale that will replicate an Amazon styled website that can be tweaked to add whatever safeguards and sell whatever.

If the sale of erotica were approached the same way any other specifically adult entertainment is and the erotic writers policed themselves it would mirror what happened with porn sites (better adult friendly resources, webmasters support communities, adult friendly businesses to support the industry such as advertisers/vendors/sponsors, etc).

There have been Adult Webmaster Resources for erotic/porn friendly hosting, shopping carts/payment processing, etc for a looooong time.

The big problem is knowing SEO and getting traffic to a new site. But it's not something completely out of reach. Just takes somebody to do it.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

emilycantore said:


> Who processes the payments for porn sites/cam girls etc? If someone really wanted to set up an unfiltered erotica site perhaps they need to talk to the porn producers and work out how they did it. I mean, there are a million hardcore porn sites out there and they all take credit card payments...


Exactly!

There's an entire adult/porn version of everything "mainstream"/non adult webmasters use. Everything. Merchant accounts (think PayPal for porn), hosting, advertising circles like a porn version of Google AdSense, everything you can think of, blog networks, link lists, search engines, etc.

Selling erotica on mainstream sites is like swimming upstream.

Plus, you're in an arena where you're not the exception, you're the rule. You're not ducking folks who aren't looking for your product, in fact folks who are looking for your product have jumped a few hurdles to be allowed entry to your product and folks not looking for your product are being filtered to be kept out. (Using age verification, etc.)


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Kobo is now deleting entire author catalogs from their storefront (i.e. you cannot access the book to buy it although it will show up in the publisher's dashboard as live). Just lost all of my Christa Wick titles

Because, you know, the public needs protected from the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Christa-Wick/e/B00684JIKK/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1


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## Suzan Butler (Apr 6, 2013)

I said this somewhere else, but it needs to be said again.

WTH.


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## P.C. (Peter) Anders (Feb 6, 2013)

Removing "self-published" books. So they're not going to carry "Leaves of Grass"?

Perhaps they need to be treated to a month, or a year, of Hindu philosophy, according to which the self is the Other, and any distinction is an illusion (maya).


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> Kobo is now deleting entire author catalogs from their storefront (i.e. you cannot access the book to buy it although it will show up in the publisher's dashboard as live). Just lost all of my Christa Wick titles


I don't writing kissing stuff (okay, so maybe some awkward fade to black action), but I just went to Kobo and all of my titles listed there via Draft2Digital are now gone. The stuff I listed directly is still there. The plot thickens.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Kate - that makes sense as D2D works as a "publisher" for other publishers and they are hitting entire publisher accounts if there is any "inappropriate" content under the publisher account.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-13/kobo-working-quickly-to-remove-graphic-ebooks

However, they are being entirely slap dash. The TOS



> Pornography, Nudity, and Sexually Explicit Material: Adult or explicit material depicting illegal acts or deemed to be exploitative shall be considered pornography and blocked or removed from the Website. See below for details regarding Kobo standards. If Your content contains appropriate adult or explicit material, please mark the page as containing mature content as a courtesy to other Users, so that they will have the choice whether or not to view this content. You can do this either in the subtitle or in the opening paragraph of your Shortcover. We reserve the right to put such content, or any Shortcover containing mature content, behind an interstitial.
> 
> Pedophilia, Incest, Bestiality, Exploitation and Sexual Violence or Force: Users may not publish written, image, audio or video content that promotes pedophilia, incest, bestiality, or sexual violence or force.


My erotica pen name under the same account didn't have the prohibited items in it.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> Kobo is now deleting entire author catalogs from their storefront (i.e. you cannot access the book to buy it although it will show up in the publisher's dashboard as live). Just lost all of my Christa Wick titles
> 
> Because, you know, the public needs protected from the following:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Christa-Wick/e/B00684JIKK/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1


I just panicked, sinced some of the direct Kobo links from my website no longer work (for non-erotic books). However, when I searched for my name, all the books were still there.

So Kobo is apparently in the process of updating their website as well.


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

My books at Kobo are gone and author search returns no results. I use d2D and only have horror titles listed there.


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## X. Aratare (Feb 5, 2013)

Kobo has been having problems since at least August with books not appearing on their site despite being shown as live on the publishing dashboard.  I contacted them and they put some of the titles back (they said they put all of them back, but I checked and they hadn't).  I sent in another request.

Though this censorship is disgusting on multiple levels, your books not appearing may have nothing to do with this latest craziness, but a technical glitch that happened much earlier this year.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

X

It is not a glitch - http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-13/kobo-working-quickly-to-remove-graphic-ebooks/

They are throwing the baby out with the bathwater


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## X. Aratare (Feb 5, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> X
> 
> It is not a glitch - http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-13/kobo-working-quickly-to-remove-graphic-ebooks/
> 
> They are throwing the baby out with the bathwater


That's just "fantastic".  I don't know if it was this thread or another, but doesn't Kobo have categories for really racy stuff? What exactly did they think was going to be placed in those categories?


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

All my books are gone from Kobo, and I publish directly with them. The only one that's still up is the title I pubbed w/ Carina (Harlequin).


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Just checked. My NON-erotica titles through draft2digital are gone from Kobo (no matter how I search--title, author name, or link from d2d). And I'm not a self-publisher--these are titles of other authors that I have published. I'm registered as an S-corp.

My erotic titles published through Smashwords are still up on Kobo.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Not sure how accurate these are, but am logging them here to see if they tell us anything.

Kobo erotica 32776, Taboo 201


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Yeah, Kobo certainly hasn't gotten rid of all erotica.

Search for my author Jeremy Edwards, for example. His books from Xcite are still up. His books from 1001 Nights Press through Smashwords are still up. But Pleasure Dial (through draft2digital) is gone.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

All mine are gone from Kobo and I write sci fi fantasy. Mine were added through Kobo Writing Life. My dashboard says everything is normal, they are for sale on the site.

No they aren't!

I guess I'll wait for a couple of days before contacting them. Their inbox must be flooded right now.


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## Mike Dennis (Apr 26, 2010)

Got to protect the public from those self-published works.

Make sure to scrub those titles that "have got" through the screening process.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

All my titles are gone from Kobo. I write romance, some spice but nowhere near erotica. I only had five titles up and was pretty much invisible there, so there certainly won't be a financial loss. I guess they've definitely decided if you're a self-publisher you're on the bus...

This dropping of titles seems a very strange action for an international company to take in response to a hissy fit by one of their distributors. Overkill, much... And where does this leave Kobo Writing Life? 

One thing about independent publishing, it's never boring.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

EC Sheedy said:


> One thing about independent publishing, it's never boring.


YUP!!!

There's always something happening, and news from 12 months ago seems reallllly old.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

Yep, had a few non erotica titles  on Kobo through D2D. Gone.


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## 71089 (Jul 12, 2013)

Mimi said:


> YUP!!!
> 
> There's always something happening, and news from 12 months ago seems reallllly old.


The Apocalypse has commenced!


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## Raquel Lyon (Mar 3, 2012)

Three of my four books have gone  , and they are YA fantasy, not erotica at all!


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

If I sold anything at Kobo, I'd be worried.

Sorry for those of you who were making money there.


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## Massimo Marino (Oct 14, 2013)

I can confirm that my sci-fi titles have disappeared from Kobo and marked "deleted by its creator". 

Not really an impact for me as I sell only a few copies every month of Kobo but it seems they are indeed removing all non-trad published titles.


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

Not sure if Kobo pulled everything of mine and are now slowly returning after 'checks,' or if only two SF shorts passed said checks... which would be odd as everything I have out is SF or fantasy and none of it contains erotic material or even much in the way of bad language. Maybe their bot noticed the word c*ck in one book and panicked.  

I'm unimpressed with their actions - all retailers to one degree or another - and am turning a couple of ideas over in my mind here.

My sympathy for those who are losing money. Let's see if we can think of something positive to do about this. We are not helpless, after all.

"Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel." -- Mark Twain (who would doubtless approve the more inclusive adjustment)


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

Just checked - four of mine are still there vs four not there any more. I wonder if they are gradually replacing them after vetting, or if they are gradually taking them away after establishing they're self-published!
They are almost all more or less in the cosy mystery genre, and in fact the only one that isn't and mentions two characters having s*x is still there for the moment.
I usually do fairly well on Kobo, though of course everything is relative, so I will be quite miffed if this causes my novels to drop out of visibility there.


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## 72263 (Sep 10, 2013)

My catalog - all erotica - has been removed too. Kobo is being ridiculously sloppy with this whole thing!


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

Hi, first post here.  My catalog of two books has been removed from Kobo too.  I went through D2D.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

It looks as if Barnes maybe joining the fun soon http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24519179


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

BillSmithBooksDotCom said:


> I wonder when the indignant and offended readers will demand that WH Smith ban those "other" books that contain such "filth" -- things like VC Andrews, Lolita, the Greek Myths & Oedipus, Shakespeare, the Bible, etc.


While I am sure such comments give you some level of smug satisfaction, they do nothing to work toward a solution. The last time I checked, after all, The Bible didn't come promoted with cover art of an upshot photo of a woman's naked ass. Hamlet doesn't come with a cover that depicts at waist-level shot of naked couple just before penetration. And current marketing aside (which is a completely different issue entirely but one that makes me crazy with frustration), when Flowers in the Attic was first release, it was not classified as a YA or NA romance, but _horror_ and didn't show up in searches when one looked for books on gardening .

The common threads across all platforms are:

1. Excessively graphic cover art that, if it was in a retail outlet, would be required by law to be behind the counter. There are some covers I am seeing that, if you walked up to a random child at a playground and showed it to him, you would be arrested.
2. Excessively graphic titles
3. Excessively graphic blurbs. I've seen some erotica where the blurb is a full sex scene from the book. 
*3. Improper keyword and category listing, both on the part of authors and the part of retailers. *

This last one is the biggest problem.

First, retailers who allow indie titles do not treat indie titles in the same way as trade books for purposes of metadata processing. The keywords on an erotica are treated the same way as the keywords on a children's books in most DIY systems. This is a design flaw. The "daddy" books mentioned earlier shouldn't appear under bedtime stories if the metadata is being processed correctly. The fact that this seems to be a problem limited to indie books clearly points to an internal processing issue.

Second, the nature of most of the DIY systems does not allow for screening of inappropriate material. This can't be done automatically. A computer program won't differentiate between a line of dialogue that says "Daddy, don't touch that!" in reference to a notebook and "Daddy, don't touch that!" in reference to his daughter's privates parts.  Vetting would require human beings being involved in the equation. And nobody wants that, because first it would be expensive and second it would slow down how quickly books are live. People already complain if a vendor takes more than 24 hours for a book to go live. Vetting could require a week (or more). And who is going to pay for these vetters? Not the retailers. It would have to come out of the author's cut.

Third, what few automated filters retailers do put into place are quickly circumvented by authors who are trying to avoid being filtered. An "adult" content filter only works if authors classify their books as adult. I got a complaint from a customer recently from my Drivethru affiliate site about porn. Drivethru allows adult content, but it has to be labeled adult. Well, someone uploaded a couple dozen erotic titles without labeling them adult. One of my customers followed a link to my affiliate site and was greeting by some...interesting...titles she was not expecting to see.  There are threads here on KB about how to avoid the "adult dungeon" by rewriting blurbs slightly or masking the content. All the filters in the world won't help if people willfully ignore them.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

D&D doesn't show up at Kobo now either - and I can't think of anything further from erotica.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I'm gone from Kobo. I write the fluffiest of fluffy mysteries. I don't think the word sex is even mentioned.


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

This is the height of stupidity. And yes, total conjecture here, but if this is anything permanent at the end only Amazon will be left standing. And as we've seen with Amazon and their swaying definition of morality, that's not good for authors at all.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

markecooper said:


> It looks as if Barnes maybe joining the fun soon http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24519179


Wow. Thanks for posting Mark.

I'm stunned at how big a blow up this has become. It's 2013. You've been able to get hardcore porn from google search for years and years. These are just stories. What the hell's going on


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Any one who has had fantasy removed from Kobo let me know. I've been following this story on my FB fantasy page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Read-Fantasy/593776737335196

I seem to still be up on Kobo. I have some kink but no taboo stuff and then romance and a little fantasy--three pen names. We'll see how long I last.

Anyone outside of the romance/erotica genre should be writing press releases that their books have been banned. Otherwise the media will never pick up on it---the media narrative to date makes it sound like they're just cleaning up all that filthy incest. There is ZERO understanding that other genres are being targeted too.

M


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

Aaaand now down to one lone short fiction title on Kobo, so that answers the question I posed earlier, I guess.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Some hope -- I woke this morning to most of my Christa Wick  titles restored and (oddly) all of my erotica pen name titles restored. No email reply to my email yesterday. So it looks like they hit everyone with a sledgehammer and now have the more laborious task of putting things back together book by book.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

mrv01d said:


> Any one who has had fantasy removed from Kobo let me know. I've been following this story on my FB fantasy page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Read-Fantasy/593776737335196
> 
> I seem to still be up on Kobo. I have some kink but no taboo stuff and then romance and a little fantasy--three pen names. We'll see how long I last.
> 
> ...


I've had everything removed from Kobo, and that includes 4 historical fantasy, and 2 urban fantasy. I'm a bit worried they will start using a bot looking for thr fbomb, because my sci-fi is military/space opera and although I don't use a lot of cussing, we ARE reading about soldiers on the battle field. If they decide the fbomb is evidence that my stuff is ADULT then... I might go out of business if Amazon gets on the crazy train.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

That's great news, Christa! I just checked and my werewolf titles are gone - that were published through D2D - but my older, much dirtier titles under another pen name, which I self published, are still up.  So who knows.

I absolutely love Draft 2 Digital, they have the best customer service I've encountered anywhere, so I will be very saddened if this whole business hurts them.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Julie: You're making assumptions. I NEVER had bad covers. NEVER. And I've had problems. My blurbs are tame. I'm TAME. I learned to avoid the mistakes others made a long time ago and I got hit anyway. The bookseller response is not justified. It's a kneejerk reaction with all the intelligence of a tantrumming toddler behind it. All driven by media with the fact checking skills of drunken gnats.

Mark: I got you. My posts on FB are starting to get some attention. 

M


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## Harriet Schultz (Jan 3, 2012)

I think this may solve some of the disappearing Kobo books.

I checked for romantic suspense novels last night to see how my promo was doing and was stunned (!) that I was no longer searchable on Kobo. My books land there through Draft2Digital. This response from their customer service just landed in my inbox:

*"We have discovered that over the weekend Kobo removed all books published through our account. While we have received no official word concerning this issue, we believe this is related to recent articles in the media concerning erotica titles available at WHSmith and Kobo's storefronts.

However, Kobo's response to this situation seems to have been removal of all books for any publishers (including distributors) that have offending titles until they find a solution.

I deeply regret that authors who have released books that are not erotica have been affected by this situation as well.

We are working aggressively to resolve this issue as quickly as possible and we will keep you updated as we learn more information."*


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## 72263 (Sep 10, 2013)

Well, that confirms it. I hope authors of non-erotica let Kobo know how they feel about that - somehow I suspect that Kobo won't take complaints from the erotica writers seriously.


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## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

Yes, I got that email too. Kobo removed all books submitted through D2D. I'm wondering if they're doing the same to books submitted through Smashwords.

I don't sell a lot through Kobo, so it's not a huge loss, but still. 

ETA: I don't write erotica, either.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Just got email From D2D. I can't believe how unprofessional Kobo has been by removing everyone's books without even the courtesy of an email informing all those involved. Even someone as big as D2D has been ignored. Smashwords must be chewing rocks!

I was going to paste the email, but someone beat me to it. Mine is the same message.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> While I am sure such comments give you some level of smug satisfaction, they do nothing to work toward a solution. The last time I checked, after all, The Bible didn't come promoted with cover art of an upshot photo of a woman's naked *ss. Hamlet doesn't come with a cover that depicts at waist-level shot of naked couple just before penetration. And current marketing aside (which is a completely different issue entirely but one that makes me crazy with frustration), when Flowers in the Attic was first release, it was not classified as a YA or NA romance, but _horror_ and didn't show up in searches when one looked for books on gardening .
> 
> The common threads across all platforms are:
> 
> ...


I rather suspect that Julie has it spot on.

As a consumer I do NOT want to have "daddy" erotica pop up as a suggestion to me if I'm looking for a book to send my cousin who just became a father.  Any more than I would want to find it in the children's section of the physical bookstore around the corner. In either case, I'd definitely be reporting it to the store as a NEGATIVE customer experience.

So I applaud companies who are working to try to fix the problem. In fact the only criticism I have is that they didn't realize there was a problem before customers complained and/or there were media reports. Because they didn't address it sooner, the initial response is a bit heavy handed, I'll grant -- but I expect it will moderate as they figure out how best to deal with the problem.

Still, I seriously don't see the problem for producers of erotica. People who want to read it will find it. People who don't want to read it should be able to shop without being afraid every click might show them way more than they want to see!


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I got the email too.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

I've now got only one title left there, apparently chosen at random from my mystery series- but it's encouraging to hear of one person getting them back. Will keep watching.
Most of mine are via Smashwords but a couple via D2D so yes, I just got their email too.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

So far my 5 titles with Kobo, published directly through Kobo, are fine. My books have none of the "foul words" that any automated screening would pick up (fantasy and scif allow for options in strong lang  ) and all my romantic scenes quickly fade to black. So I do not know which of those facts have kept me safe so far... but as poor as my sales are on Kobo, it almost does not matter.   I really would like to see Kobo get beyond this and start to offer a serious challenge in the market place.

This kind of chain effect is what I worry about in these censorship threads and the main reason I check/follow them.


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## KerryT2012 (Dec 18, 2012)

I am so confused, now I am a mother of 3 and I have NEVER EVER searched for a book for one of my children using the word, Daddy. Am I the only naive one. I mean I just find the whole thing bizzare....
From the Whsmith site - Pornographic ebooks remain for sale on Amazon despite a backlash over inappropriate titles stocked by leading booksellers.

Customers using searches such as "Daddy" on the online retailer can be led to Kindle books featuring rape, incest and "forced sex", alongside titles for children.

WHSmith today apologised and shut down its website after similar books featured on their site, while "erotic" titles are also available to buy online from Waterstones.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Sarwah2012 said:


> I am so confused, now I am a mother of 3 and I have NEVER EVER searched for a book for one of my children using the word, Daddy. Am I the only naive one. I mean I just find the whole thing bizzare....
> From the Whsmith site - Pornographic ebooks remain for sale on Amazon despite a backlash over inappropriate titles stocked by leading booksellers.
> 
> Customers using searches such as "Daddy" on the online retailer can be led to Kindle books featuring rape, incest and "forced sex", alongside titles for children.
> ...


Many good kids books use "Daddy" in their title so I can imagine many parents searching for those books that way.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

I'm sure this will sound insane to people who know what I write, but I've just checked Kobo. Fire Season is gone, and so are the Docks novellas. I seem to have been kicked off the Kobo site - apparently PG-rated adventure stories are now considered adult  .

Complaint letter in the works.


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

Has anyone looked over Kobo's agreement to see if they guarantee payment (even if it doesn't meet the threshold) after de-listing books? That's potentially a great deal of money to be sitting on when you consider the cumulative pot of all self-pub authors.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

I agree that people searching for child-suitable titles likely search mommy/daddy, at least for certain life events and such. But the things is -- this isn't new. Daddy, etc., erotica titles began wildly proliferating in 2011. They took a slight hit in February 2012 with the paypal storm, and Amazon put MOST of them in the "dungeon" so that they only show up in kindle store searches instead of main store search. Regardless, lots of people looking for "innocent" daddy titles have been encountering the naughty titles in their searches for at least three years with no public outrage.

Now we have public outrage generated by one writer who is far more notable for his attacks on other writers than the four books he's written. This media storm started with tweets on his twitter account, followed by a blogpost on a no-name site (that thinks revenge porn is a-OK as is having sex while wearing animal costumes -- yet reviles shifter romances/erotica as bestiality) that was then repubbed by a British tabloid. Three years of reasonable people doing reasonable searches finding results they weren't looking for with no audible complaints versus tabloid generated hysteria that wipes out the books of even cookbook writers if they unfortunately published through D2D.

It's ridiculous.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

mrv01d said:


> *****: You're making assumptions. I NEVER had bad covers. NEVER. And I've had problems. My blurbs are tame. I'm TAME. I learned to avoid the mistakes others made a long time ago and I got hit anyway. The bookseller response is not justified. It's a kneejerk reaction with all the intelligence of a tantrumming toddler behind it. All driven by media with the fact checking skills of drunken gnats.


1. I did NOT say anything to you about your books. I don't even know what your books are. I wasn't even responding to any of your comments. My post was in response to something else unrelated to your books.
2. I don't think I said anything remotely supporting the retailer's methodology. In fact, I was commenting on the general common denominators across all platforms where this has been an issue.
3. If you actually read my comment, I think it is clear that I feel the issue is in the retailer's lap because they have set up a system that is easily abused and doesn't work correctly.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Christa Wick said:


> It's ridiculous.


Well, no, see, I don't think it's ridiculous. What's ridiculous is that it's something the sellers could have paid attention to and been dealing with all along so that it didn't get to the point where one customer, rather than just being annoyed and stopping doing business with the company, instead wrote it up and published it for the world to read about.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

All my titles have been pulled, and I uploaded direct (not via D2D) and don't write erotica.


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## Kiki Wellington (Mar 28, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> Now we have public outrage generated by one writer who is far more notable for his attacks on other writers than the four books he's written. This media storm started with tweets on his twitter account, followed by a blogpost on a no-name site (that thinks revenge porn is a-OK as is having sex while wearing animal costumes -- yet reviles shifter romances/erotica as bestiality) that was then repubbed by a British tabloid. Three years of reasonable people doing reasonable searches finding results they weren't looking for with no audible complaints versus tabloid generated hysteria that wipes out the books of even cookbook writers if they unfortunately published through D2D.
> 
> It's ridiculous.


I think this aspect of it disturbs me the most. I can't stand writer-on-writer crime. I have come across tons of books that I personally think are gross. I don't buy them and I don't read them. That should be the end of it. If I'm not a fan of something, I vote with my pocketbook; I would never go out of my way to take away another writer's livelihood. Don't writers have enough to endure without going after _each other_?


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

Kiki Wellington said:


> I think this aspect of it disturbs me the most. I can't stand writer-on-writer crime. I have come across tons of books that I personally think are gross. I don't buy them and I don't read them. That should be the end of it. If I'm not a fan of something, I vote with my pocketbook; I would never go out of my way to take away another writer's livelihood. Don't writers have enough to endure without going after _each other_?


I'll bet dollars to donuts he has a collection of Daddy and tentacle porn that rivals Amazon's entire catalog *and* self-pubs it under a pseud. Bet you anything!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

I should have tested every book before I made my update -- some 60+% show error pages when I click on the book in the kobo store. Hopefully that's system lag.

Ann -- except that he's not a customer, he's someone who has a long history of going around looking for something to be outraged about when it comes to other authors. Then when you get to The Daily Mail, it's populated by people who only visit the site to be outraged or engage in voyeurism.


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## redandgold (Apr 6, 2011)

I strongly suspect that a major part of the problem is the UK government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23401076



> Most households in the UK will have pornography blocked by their internet provider unless they choose to receive it,


So, of course, when WHSmith is front and center for selling "porn" online, they will react quickly so that their site isn't block by all the ISP in the UK.

I happen to think that the book sellers like Kobo and Amazon etc could handle this far better - but when you are up against idiocy like this from the government and "authors" who try and game the system . . .

The collateral damage is not pretty - But I really hope that this spurs them to sort out the adult content issues properly rather than the silly approaches they are so far making a hash of it with.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

D2D is yanked from Kobo.  A few spotty reports of authors who directly upload through Kobo have been yanked.  This might be a more manual process so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while if they indeed are.  It will be interesting to see if they cull Smashwords next.

Personally Kobo has been very small potatoes when it comes to selling e-books even if a few authors seem to sell well there.  I don't want to sound all Fox News here but could this be the beginning of the end?  Amazon has been going rounds with erotica writers.  Kobo has clearly caved to WHSmith's complaint and is cutting out everything that isn't from an approved short list of distributors.

How long until Apple gets on the moral/quality bandwagon?  Their farts smell like smug, but a lot of books they sell don't.
Even the Zon might close down KDP and force everything to go through their imprint houses.

Is this the over-reaction that kills the free range of self-publishing?


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

redandgold said:


> I strongly suspect that a major part of the problem is the UK government.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23401076
> 
> ...


Yep, yep, yep.

Here's a good criticism of WH's business decisions to date: http://econsultancy.com/us/blog/63575-why-whsmith-s-drastic-decision-to-take-its-site-offline-shows-little-understanding-of-digital

Finally someone gets this is corporate lunacy!


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

I think I've figured out which books are being removed.

It seems like all self-pubbed books with ISBNs are being removed from Kobo UK - as you need an ISBN to get into WH Smith (partner site of Kobo in the UK who have closed their store until Kobo remove the porn).


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

I didn't have ISBNs, David.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

SBJones said:


> D2D is yanked from Kobo. A few spotty reports of authors who directly upload through Kobo have been yanked. This might be a more manual process so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while if they indeed are. It will be interesting to see if they cull Smashwords next.
> 
> Personally Kobo has been very small potatoes when it comes to selling e-books even if a few authors seem to sell well there. I don't want to sound all Fox News here but could this be the beginning of the end? Amazon has been going rounds with erotica writers. Kobo has clearly caved to WHSmith's complaint and is cutting out everything that isn't from an approved short list of distributors.
> 
> ...


This is partially my fear as well. I have three pen names. Two publish erotic themed stories and one publishes paranormal and uf. Even after about three years, I'm still not independent enough to go it alone without Amazon. There are other venues out there (All Romance eBooks/Omnilit) but they have nowhere near the power of the 'Zon.

Right now I'm making plans too make the most of the current system.. but also do other things. This includes building a mailing list and setting up my own small imprint. You can still publish to Amazon as a small publisher through some other programs they have. I'm still learning about this, but it would require buying ISBN's and really getting your act together business wise. We may have to adapt.. to continue to thrive.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> I didn't have ISBNs, David.


Are you with Draft2Digital - all their Kobo titles seem to be gone, full stop. The KWL/Smashwords ones seem to be based on whether or not you have an ISBN. I guess all the D2D ones might automatically assign a free ISBN... or Kobo just pulled all their books. I'm not sure.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I have deleted this post as I do not consent to the new Terms of Service that Vertical Scope are attempting to retrospectively apply to our content.  I am forced to manually replace my content as, at time of editing, their representative has instructed moderators not to delete posts or accounts when users request it, and Vertical Scope have implied that they will deal with account deletion requests by anonymising accounts, which would leave personally identifying information in my posts.

I joined under the previous ownership and have posted over the years under different Terms of Service.  I do not consent to my name, content, or intellectual properties being used by Vertical Scope or any other entity that they sell or licence my data to.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Well... there goes that theory... unless they are slowly working through the list.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

dgaughran said:


> Well... there goes that theory... unless they are slowly working through the list.


I don't have ISBNs, and my books are still there (at least for _me_).

You just can't buy them.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

Since non-erotic authors have had their books yanked, it looks to me like there's an iron-clad case that will stand up in court against Jeremy Duns, Jeremy Wilson, and Milo Yiannopoulos.  If you're writing just regular, non-erotic books (which won't disturb a jury) and you've losing income or lost your livelihood in the hysteria whipped up by this attention-seeking trio, you can now sue them.  

I also suspect Yiannopoulos of an ulterior motive.  He's undoubtedly noticed that Bezos bought the Washington Post.  If he keeps on whining about smut and wrecking havoc with Amazon's business, he may be hoping that Bezos will just buy The Kernal Magazine to shut them up, and thus make Yiannopoulos a very rich man.  Yiannopoulos is so broke he almost couldn't pay his writers.  He's certainly succeeding in batting Bezos around like a ping-pong ball, so he's skilled in manipulating people to his advantage.  He's also a blazing hypocrite to be complaining about inappropriate erotica.  Yiannopoulos is a big, big Michael Jackson fan, and everyone knows what Jackson did for his extracurriculars.


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## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

Zelah Meyer said:


> My three titles are all published via Smashwords and, when I checked a little while ago, only one was missing - The Scholar and Her Escort. All 3 of my titles should have ISBNs via Smashwords.
> 
> All my stories are sweet romances - but that didn't stop B&N UK filtering them as erotica when they went a bit silly - so I'm not really surprised!


That's one thing very ironic about this. I've been planning to write some sweet romances,and have assumed that self-publishing would be the only possible avenue, considering how sex-filled trad-published romances are now.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

I don't think most retailers really mind selling erotica, but when it's in the customers face and they complain--retailers will react. 

As usual it is probably a few rotten apples. There are plenty of get-rich-quick-warriors out there. Last year some guy flooded the online stores with his erotic, which was xxx rated photos lifted from porn sites and magazines. He was putting up 20 titles a day.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

All of my smashwords books are no longer on Kobo, but only 2 were erotica. One was a travel/humor book with no s** whatsoever. A book of mine that is on smashwords through a publisher is still on Kobo, it wasn't erotica either. So it looks like they're targeting self-published books and not just erotica.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

dgaughran said:


> Well... there goes that theory... unless they are slowly working through the list.


Trying to imagine how one goes about slowly chopping willy-nilly. A slow excision would suggest some sort of method or criteria, but this doesn't appear to be the case. They may be starting with the newest accounts and working backward. Or vice versa. Or alphabetically by book title. Or publisher name. Or book price. Or color scheme...


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

dgaughran said:


> I think I've figured out which books are being removed.
> 
> It seems like all self-pubbed books with ISBNs are being removed from Kobo UK - as you need an ISBN to get into WH Smith (partner site of Kobo in the UK who have closed their store until Kobo remove the porn).


Not necessarily. I don't use ISBNs for my self-pubbed books w/ Kobo.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

My new novel that's being published in December was available there, the only thing I had there, for preorder. It's apocalyptic (not an erotic scene in sight) and placed there directly by my publishers. It's gone... (sigh)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Yes, all my sweet romances are gone from Kobo. Has anyone posted the email from D2D? If not, here it is.

We have discovered that over the weekend Kobo removed all books published through our account. While we have received no official word concerning this issue, we believe this is related to recent articles in the media concerning erotica titles available at WHSmith and Kobo's storefronts.

However, Kobo's response to this situation seems to have been removal of all books for any publishers (including distributors) that have offending titles until they find a solution.

I deeply regret that authors who have released books that are not erotica have been affected by this situation as well.

We are working aggressively to resolve this issue as quickly as possible and we will keep you updated as we learn more information.

Sincerely,
Kris Austin
President and CEO
Draft2Digital, LLC
https://www.draft2digital.com

Okay, so April Showers and March Madness are offending titles? How about May Flowers? Boy that sure suggests erotica. Now if it was May De-flowered, I could see it. No, actually, I can't see it. This is a witch hunt.

Disgusted.


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Yes, all my sweet romances are gone from Kobo. Has anyone posted the email from D2D? If not, here it is.
> 
> We have discovered that over the weekend Kobo removed all books published through our account. While we have received no official word concerning this issue, we believe this is related to recent articles in the media concerning erotica titles available at WHSmith and Kobo's storefronts.
> 
> ...


I'd wait to see what the fallout is first. It sounds like they took everything down, which means your titles may not have actually been offensive. So rather than trying to figure out which ones need to be fixed, I'd hold off and see what the ramifications are first.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2013)

sarbonn said:


> I'd wait to see what the fallout is first. It sounds like they took everything down, which means your titles may not have actually been offensive. So rather than trying to figure out which ones need to be fixed, I'd hold off and see what the ramifications are first.


Indeed. WBSmith took a "scorched Earth" approach and took their entire site down and removed ALL Kobo titles, presumably until such time that Kobo can show them that they have put measures in place to prevent future problems. So Kobo has taken a similar scorched Earth approach. It isn't logical. It's a panic action. But I assume they will now have to go through their catalogs and do the work of figuring out what belongs where.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

sarbonn said:


> I'd wait to see what the fallout is first. It sounds like they took everything down, which means your titles may not have actually been offensive. So rather than trying to figure out which ones need to be fixed, I'd hold off and see what the ramifications are first.


Thanks for your good advice. I was actually being sarcastic.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

So, the last line of the guardian piece on the WH Smith fiasco caught my attention:



> The Ministry of Justice said the retailers would be liable for prosecution if a judge deemed that the ebooks breached the Obscene Publications Act.


http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/13/whsmith-shuts-website-hardcore-pornography-ebooks

Not being a British citizen, this was the first time I'd ever heard of the act. I assume it is this one from 1959. Can someone point to a reliable source to read up on the topic?

Oh, and would this affair be considered a case of government censorship, now?

B.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi, B--

your post directly relates to this thread, so I've merged it.  Thanks for understanding.

Betsy


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> So Kobo has taken a similar scorched Earth approach. It isn't logical. It's a panic action. But I assume they will now have to go through their catalogs and do the work of figuring out what belongs where.


The logic might depend on the imminent risk WHSmith faces. Justin notes a reference to a law that might be relevant. There may be civil or criminal liability risk.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> Now we have public outrage generated by one writer who is far more notable for his attacks on other writers than the four books he's written. This media storm started with tweets on his twitter account, followed by a blogpost on a no-name site (that thinks revenge porn is a-OK as is having sex while wearing animal costumes -- yet reviles shifter romances/erotica as bestiality) that was then repubbed by a British tabloid. Three years of reasonable people doing reasonable searches finding results they weren't looking for with no audible complaints versus tabloid generated hysteria that wipes out the books of even cookbook writers if they unfortunately published through D2D.
> 
> It's ridiculous.


I actually supported the writer in question when he went after plagiarists, but now he's pretty high on my "Will never buy or read anything ever again" list. Just a nasty little person whose outrage becomes even more ridiculous if you take a look at what he writes.


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## Vivienne Mathews (May 7, 2013)

Whew, it looks like I've ducked the broom in the Kobo sweep, at least. All of my titles seem to be intact -- though they're all middle grade fiction, so I'm not sure how that plays into things. Maybe they're leaving the younger categories alone?    I'm so sorry to anyone who's been wrongly affected by this. What a nightmare.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

B. Justin Shier said:


> So, the last line of the guardian piece on the WH Smith fiasco caught my attention:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/13/whsmith-shuts-website-hardcore-pornography-ebooks
> 
> ...


Lady Chatterley anyone?


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## David Thayer (Sep 7, 2012)

Ryan, you're asking the right questions.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Yes, all my sweet romances are gone from Kobo. Has anyone posted the email from D2D? If not, here it is.


I'm still seeing you up in Canada, in chapters/indigo
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/ring-out-the-old-twelve/9990006328561-item.html?ikwid=Ring+Out+the+Old&ikwsec=Home
Isn't that part of Smithbooks? And don't they distribute via Kobo?

I think I've confused myself now.
My title is still up on kobo.com but NOT at chapters/indigo


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Sam Kates said:


> Lady Chatterley anyone?


Later Chatterley was prosecuted under the Obscene Publications Act of 1959. In fact, it was a major test of that legislation. It was a fairly major trial with a lengthy and illustrious line up of witnesses, and the verdict was "not guilty".

Here is a bit from Britannica on the UK's obscenity laws to clarify the issue:



> In 1954 an effort was begun in Parliament to amend Lord Campbell's Act, resulting in 1959 in a new Obscene Publications Act, whose most important provisions are (1) that a person shall not be convicted if publication was "in the interests of science, literature, art or learning," (2) that the opinion of experts as to the literary, artistic, scientific, or other merits of the publication may be admitted as evidence, (3) that the work is to be read as a whole, and (4) that authors and book publishers may speak in defense of the work though they have not been summoned in the case. It was amended in 1964 to affect the wholesaler or anyone merely "having an obscene article for publication for gain," unless he can prove "that he had not examined the article and had no reasonable cause to suspect that it was such that his having it could make him liable to be convicted of an offence."
> 
> The Obscene Publications Act was further broadened in 1977 to include the distribution of pornographic films.


I would bet rather a lot that most of the novels removed were in no way obscene or even erotica. It is one of the worst over-reactions I have ever seen.


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## Jennifer R P (Oct 19, 2012)

My small press published book was removed from kobo.uk too.

A lot of small presses use Smashwords to distribute to Kobo because Kobo's uploading system is, apparently, awful. Kobo has blanket-blocked Smashwords.

(Note, my books are not erotica nor are they romance, and YA books from my publisher are also caught in the net).


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I just got a new email from Kobo (my book has not been removed (yet)

In includes:

_Our goal at Kobo is not to censor material; we support freedom of expression. Further, we want to protect the reputation of self-publishing as a whole. You have our promise that we will do all we can to ensure the exceptions that have caused this current situation will not have a lasting effect on what is an exciting new channel that connects Readers to a wealth of books. _

Is this new>


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> I would bet rather a lot that most of the novels removed were in no way obscene or even erotica. It is one of the worst over-reactions I have ever seen.


Quite.


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## kdarden (Aug 23, 2012)

Well yes, got the D2D memo. All my sweet romances are gone (pen name), and so is The Sad Cloud Who Wanted to Make Friends, the book written and illustrated with my 11 year old granddaughter this summer. So, just waiting for them to realize that our poor little cloud is lily white - as are his friends....


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Quiss said:


> I'm still seeing you up in Canada, in chapters/indigo
> http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/ring-out-the-old-twelve/9990006328561-item.html?ikwid=Ring+Out+the+Old&ikwsec=Home
> Isn't that part of Smithbooks? And don't they distribute via Kobo?
> 
> ...


Thanks for checking that, Quiss. Kobo's foreign websites are extremely slow to unpublish and that may be why it's still up on chapters/indigo. When I removed my books from SW to go into Select, there was no problem with kobo.com, but I got an email from Select several months later saying that one book was still available in Kobo's Aussie store.


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## Jorja Tabu (Feb 6, 2012)

Maybe they are removing content chronologically--I_ just_ got all of my books uploaded in September, and everything is wiped. Scorched earth, it seems. Maybe they're banning catalogs recent----> OG, and they'll be allowing them back in reverse (OG--->recent). It just seems odd that all ten of my books are gone, while others have a spottier standing.

I'm furious, but I think it's largely because a) I just got this done and b) these books are not at all taboo. Strictly contemporary romance. I survived the ridiculous amazon purge, this will probably be the same level of BS.... Right?


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Indeed. WBSmith took a "scorched Earth" approach and took their entire site down and removed ALL Kobo titles, presumably until such time that Kobo can show them that they have put measures in place to prevent future problems. So Kobo has taken a similar scorched Earth approach. It isn't logical. It's a panic action. But I assume they will now have to go through their catalogs and do the work of figuring out what belongs where.


It isn't logical because it's WHSmith's incompetence that caused the problems in the first place. _They_ should have taken measures to prevent this situation.
It's unreasonable to expect Kobo to take all local laws into account. That's why they work with local partners who know the lay of the land.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Andrew Ashling said:


> It isn't logical because it's WHSmith's incompetence that caused the problems in the first place. _They_ should have taken measures to prevent this situation.
> It's unreasonable to expect Kobo to take all local laws into account. That's why they work with local partners who know the lay of the land.


I think the logic depends on whether they had been in violation of UK law. I dont know, but have read some things implying they were. In the US, they would be OK, but I dont know about the UK.


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## Harriet Schultz (Jan 3, 2012)

Quiss said:


> I just got a new email from Kobo (my book has not been removed (yet)
> 
> In includes:
> 
> ...


Sounds like they've called in a crisis manager to do damage control.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I think the logic depends on whether they had been in violation of UK law. I dont know, but have read some things implying they were. In the US, they would be OK, but I dont know about the UK.


Kobo isn't in the UK. WHSmith is. Therefore, isn't it their responsibility to see to it that out of everything Kobo offers, the WHSmith website only sells what is legal in the UK?


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## @Suzanna (Mar 14, 2011)

Harriet Schultz said:


> Sounds like they've called in a crisis manager to do damage control.


It's Thanksgiving here in Canada today, so to me it sounds like someone other than the low-man-on-the-totem-pole-who-pulled-the-holiday-shift-duty is finally back in the office!


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Andrew Ashling said:


> Kobo isn't in the UK. WHSmith is. Therefore, isn't it their responsibility to see to it that out of everything Kobo offers, the WHSmith website only sells what is legal in the UK?


There is no standard answer. The responsibility rests with whomever is named in their agreement. It looks like WHSmith has just named Kobo, and Kobo agreed. I base that on their recent actions. Multinationals routinely cater to the laws in the various countries where they do business. We dont get to make the decision for Kobo and WHSmith.


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

Andrew Ashling said:


> Kobo isn't in the UK. WHSmith is. Therefore, isn't it their responsibility to see to it that out of everything Kobo offers, the WHSmith website only sells what is legal in the UK?


if there's an easy way to filter unacceptable books using metadata, yes. But I don't think Kobo or WHSmith has the ability to do it.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Andrew Ashling said:


> Kobo isn't in the UK. WHSmith is. Therefore, isn't it their responsibility to see to it that out of everything Kobo offers, the WHSmith website only sells what is legal in the UK?


Especially since Amazon routinely manages to block Holocaust denial tomes, books with swastikas on the cover and unauthorized _Mein Kampf_ reprints in Germany, while keeping those titles available in countries where they are legal.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

I haven't seen anything in our press here mentioning the Obscene Publications Act - I think after Lady Chatterley was found 'not guilty' so to speak that became less relevant - but certainly the current UK government has for some reason promised to force ISPs to block obscene material in some way/make sure children don't see it [I don't think they've thought this through - what a surprise], so that will be part of what's behind WH Smith's over-reaction I expect.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

NadiaLee said:


> if there's an easy way to filter unacceptable books using metadata, yes. But I don't think Kobo or WHSmith has the ability to do it.


Actually it's fairly easy to catch ninety-nine percent of them if you don't mind false positives: Grab a swearfilter list (there are hundreds free online) scan the description, title and metadata for a match, and ban or mark as adult. From experience, it takes two hours to set up. This is why I am so absolutely furious.

Smashwords, Amazon, even Borders managed it so for WH Smith's to fail to is spectacularly poor IT competancy.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

This could hurt.  Lots of authors have already been complaining about slow summer sales, the fall rush that didn't come, and now this.  It'd be interesting to view 2 yearly graphs side by side and see how these past few months have hit people.  What'll the next blow be?


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## RLC (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh dear.


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## KerryT2012 (Dec 18, 2012)

redandgold said:


> I strongly suspect that a major part of the problem is the UK government.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23401076
> 
> ...


Yes, but then this was dated in July 2013. Still don´t get it. Why it is fine to have books about people killing and raping each other? But, not about people having sex and not hurting anyone. Things too out of hand. Still don´t get this searching for children books and searching for daddy. But hey, that is just me. Not a good Mum I suppose


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

All of my sweet, inoffensive erotic romances have been yanked from Kobo.  Fortunately I'm not missing out on many sales, to say the least...


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## Sarah Stimson (Oct 9, 2013)

Interesting approach to this here : https://medium.com/on-publishing/36a575f57aa9


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Kobo isn't in the UK. WHSmith is. Therefore, isn't it their responsibility to see to it that out of everything Kobo offers, the WHSmith website only sells what is legal in the UK?


The thing is that this isn't about making sensible choices, this is about hysteria and panic.


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## adanlerma (Jan 16, 2012)

Greg Strandberg said:


> This could hurt. Lots of authors have already been complaining about slow summer sales, the fall rush that didn't come, and now this. It'd be interesting to view 2 yearly graphs side by side and see how these past few months have hit people. What'll the next blow be?


sorry, off topic on my part, but do you have a thread line that speaks to the why's of this summer's terrible sales? and really into the fall too? thanks!


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

adanlerma said:


> sorry, off topic on my part, but do you have a thread line that speaks to the why's of this summer's terrible sales? and really into the fall too? thanks!


For many genres, all summers are slow--so I don't think there's any single reason. As for the fall "rush" I think you'll notice that many authors find it starts in different months for them. Over the past 2 years my rush hasn't started until January, so I think it could be dependent on genre/visibility/promotion. As an example, if you write books that would be good for gift giving, you may get a huge rush in November. Since I write book with sex that may not be an appropriate gift for mom and sis, my rush comes after people open their new Kindles on Christmas morning.

So far, with over 2 years of data, I don't really notice anything unusual about the peaks and valleys this year. YMMV, but I seem to recall a few threads in 2012 where some people asked when the rush would start and others answered that it already had for them--inferring no industry-wide predictability other than cold weather and holidays = increased sales at some point.

<<end derail?>>

Back to Kobo--I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone responded: has anyone asked Kobo if they're going to be paying out royalties below the threshold for authors whose books have been pulled? So far mine are all still listed (my direct titles, that is--haven't checked those through Smash).


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

WordSaladTongs - re royalties - I imagine not because they plan to have the TOS compliant books back up within a week according to a BBC News article ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24533915 ) and they are under the MISTAKEN impression that the books not being available is limited to the UK rather than the global store. (I am in the US and can only access 7 of my 24 titles and sales were down about 30% for me yesterday.)


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

Sarwah2012 said:


> Yes, but then this was dated in July 2013. Still don´t get it. Why it is fine to have books about people killing and raping each other? But, not about people having sex and not hurting anyone.


I think people are starting to miss the facts of what actually happened. Nobody is complaining about people having sex in books consensually. _Erotica itself is not the issue that triggered this._

A small minority of authors published material that is, in fact, illegal. Sex with minors. Bestiality (not shapeshifters, but animals). Rape for pleasure. Incest. People are taking an overly simplistic view here, and are just as guilty as the people who caused the panic. The line between general fiction and porn is generally based on the _intent_ of the work. If you write a rape scene that is suppose to generate horror and empathy for the victim, that is not the same thing as writing a rape scene designed to get someone off. The law differentiates, and so should rational people. The issue is specifically with a small percentage of books that were portraying rape, incest, and bestiality in ways designed to titillate. These books, for whatever reason, did not get picked up by the filters and ended up in general searches.

Someone complained. Doesn't matter who. Probably multiple someones complained. The only reason people are fixating on the one blogger is because the media referenced him specifically. But there were probably tons of complaints that were not made in public, but through customer service emails.

WHSmith panicked. _And this is where the problem actually starts_. Because for some reason, either 
A. Nobody at WHSmith realized there was porn on the internet or 
B. they didn't care so long as they made money.

But now all the sudden they had to care because people were asking how material that is illegal was being sold on the front page of the site.

But instead of taking ownership of the problem they created (because THEY created the problem by not having proper filters and checks in place to begin with), they shifted blame onto Kobo specifically and self-publishers in general. In an effort to NOT accept responsibility, they decided to protest too much and blame indies for the actions of a few and removed ALL Kobo titles.

Kobo then panicked, which escalated the problem. Because now the public was being told THEY were a peddler of porn. So THEY removed all titles that could, remotely, be possibly almost reference sex.

So before everyone, once again, rushes off to fight the wrong fight, let's try to keep the facts straight. NOBODY is saying that no erotica should ever be allowed. Nobody is in the government has actually done anything. No prosecutor has been involved or threatened anyone. This entire thing is a matter of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> WordSaladTongs - re royalties - I imagine not because they plan to have the TOS compliant books back up within a week according to a BBC News article ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24533915 ) and they are under the MISTAKEN impression that the books not being available is limited to the UK rather than the global store. (I am in the US and can only access 7 of my 24 titles and sales were down about 30% for me yesterday.)


Got it--thanks for the info.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Are they clumping erotic romance in with questionable erotica titles


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

Gestapo tactics by a few governments have distribution channels shaking.

If they want to do a perp walk of a large distributor for having taboo stuff in their 'sales', they can pretty much arrest every major distributor of eBooks there is.

It's why Amazon is now removing many titles. Warning shots were fired by a few gestapo type prosecutors and now, the censorship is on if you have erotica.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

adonipub said:


> Gestapo tactics by a few governments have distribution channels shaking.


*sigh*

Do you have any actual evidence of this or is this from some fifth-rate conspiracy site?

This sort of nonsense statement doesn't actually help matters, stirs the pot, and distracts from the REAL problem...


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

_A small minority of authors published material that is, in fact, illegal. _

Just out of curiosity, in what countries are these topics/act depictions (incest, beastiality, etc) illegal to host in print? /not a lawyer


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> A small minority of authors published material that is, in fact, illegal. Sex with minors. Bestiality (not shapeshifters, but animals). Rape for pleasure. Incest. People are taking an overly simplistic view here, and are just as guilty as the people who caused the panic. The line between general fiction and porn is generally based on the _intent_ of the work.


I need you to clarify something. Are you are saying that to write about these subjects is illegal? Because if you are, you're saying something that is untrue. There is no law in the US against writing about these topics. Please clarify. There are obscenity laws, but you don't get to label a book obscene without going through a legal process.

Second, I just want to make something clear, the books targeted by this sweep did not include sex with minors. The same thing goes for incest. Even the "Kernel" had to depend on pointing to books about adult step-relatives to get his sordid story across. These major retailers culled incest and pedo books long before this latest crackdown on erotica. Julie, I know you've been here when people talked about their tentacle sex books and shapeshifter books being removed, so I don't know why you would say these books aren't being targeted.

And lastly, there is no way you (or I) can know the intent of a work without speaking with the author. And no one can just decide that something is pornography arbitrarily. Even a court can't do that. There are legal processes in the US to determine if something is in fact pornography and/or obscene.

*Edited to correct typos.*


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Amazon and other retailers delt with erotica that had underage or incest themes at least three years ago. Books classified as "pseudo incest" (cousins, step relatives, etc..) were the target this time. "Rape" erotica isn't technically illegal.. it's an extreme fetish but there is no law against it.

Also, the books targeted in the Kernel article were almost all written by annoying internet marketers. These people place requests on sites like O-Desk or Fiverr for erotica writers. They don't care about quality of the story. Then with nary a spell-check or proofread they slap a long SEO word laden title on the book. A trained eye can spot these books a mile away - mostly by th terrible covers, and SEO word title salad.

If people are interested in a responsible take on all of this, please read the following.

Indie Reader: http://indiereader.com/2013/10/banning-books/

Selena Kitt: http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2013/10/15/porn-hunt-2013-gossip-boys-researching-porn-real-hard/


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

"we are disgusted by these particular titles,"  They're 'protecting' the public.  Right.  I don't care what the titles are, as long as they're not 'how to kill people in the name of (fill in the blanks.)  If other publishers followed their lead, what would we have...  a fat, dumb and happy public.  Well, maybe not fat, at least not all of them.  But this is censorship and it disgusts me.  It's sad what's happening to England.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

SunHi Mistwalker said:


> I need you to clarify something. Are you are saying that to write about these subjects is illegal? Because if you are, you're saying something that is untrue. There is no law in the US against writing about these topics. Please clarify. There are obscenity laws, but you don't get to label a book obscene without going through a legal process.


WHSMith is in the UK, where there are laws covering such things (as has been stated earlier regarding the ISP protocols). And while there is no law against WRITING such things in the U.S. there are laws regarding the _distribution of such items to MINORS_. CIPA is the primary weapon used against sites in the U.S. I may have been unclear in my post. There is no law against WRITING the topic per se. The laws cover the distribution of the content and to whom.



> Second, I just want to make something clear, the books targeted by this sweep did not include sex with minors.


Again, everyone is missing the point. The end result (WHSmith removing ALL self published books) is not the trigger. The sweep is a scorched earth response to a smaller issue. (See my sentence regarding throwing out the baby with the bathwater.) The reason why other books are getting caught up in the issue is because the process is being handled poorly. It's similar to when Amazon culls legitimate reviews from a listing while removing the paid for reviews. They use an axe instead of a scalpel. They are trying to automate something that requires a human to do, and therefore non-offensive titles are falling victim. I don't think at any point I have said otherwise.



> And lastly, there is no way you (or I) can know the intent of a work without speaking with the author.


Seriously? You can't look at an erotic book cover and tell the book's intent?



> Is it really only self-published books being pulled?


WHSmith specifically blamed self published books and deleted all Kobo listings. But many small presses and micro publishers use Kobo to list books with WHSmith so I am sure they are being harmed as well. WHSmith merely labeled it a self publishing problem because they don't want to take responsibility for their own lack of processes.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

Lana Amore said:


> _A small minority of authors published material that is, in fact, illegal. _
> 
> Just out of curiosity, in what countries are these topics/act depictions (incest, beastiality, etc) illegal to host in print? /not a lawyer


I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK there are the Obscene Publications Acts, 1959 and 1964 which allow prosecution for publishing matter deemed obscene for personal gain.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

The OPA doesn't tend to get used very much and when it does, as you can see from this article, it tends to get less than wholehearted support from the public:

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/jan/07/obscene-publications-act-future-doubt


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Perhaps they should add an "18 & Over" button or a separate page where one has to register once (proving age) before they can enter the page and/or purchase.

However, this is the ample time someone could make millions by starting an online erotica store and sell ebooks like Amazon, Kobo, and Smashwords. They may have banned the books, but the market is still there.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> The OPA doesn't tend to get used very much and when it does, as you can see from this article, it tends to get less than wholehearted support from the public:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/jan/07/obscene-publications-act-future-doubt


The same Guardian that is currently screaming 'ban this sick filth' (and I never thought I'd see the Guardian and the Mail agree on something...)

The law is irrelevant to the blocked books in this case because the retailers are simply targeting all indie ("self-published") books regardless of content. See their formal statement:
"Our website will become live again *once all self published eBooks have been removed* and we are totally sure that there are no offending titles available. When our website goes back online *it will not display any self published material* until we are completely confident that inappropriate books can never be shown again." http://www.whsmith.co.uk

As a result almost everything indie, regardless of content or genre, has been delisted on Kobo UK. And all this because WH Smith did not have decent content filters


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

The variance in the media coverage has been fascinating:



> Last night the Ministry of Justice said the retailers would be liable for prosecution if a judge deemed that the ebooks breached the Obscene Publications Act.
> 
> The National Crime Agency said: 'There is a need to think about criminalising the paedophilic written word in the same way as child abuse imagery and virtual images of children.
> 
> 'In the meantime, businesses who are aware that they are involved in the sharing of potentially paedophilic material can of course look to their consciences or consider the impact on their reputation.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2456651/WHSmiths-vile-trade-online-rape-porn-Bookseller-apologises-sales-sick-ebooks-revealed.html#ixzz2ho3MFh5W

Versus:

"Kobo pulls self-published books after abuse row"



> The Ministry of Justice has indicated that the sites may have breached the Obscene Publications Act, a law that requires publishers to protect shoppers from inadvertently finding content that outrages public decency.
> 
> However, it added that since it had received no complaints it would not be investigating further.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24533915

"Self-Publishing Takes Down WH Smith"



> The UK's Obscene Publication Act is more sweeping than US law, and the UK's Ministry of Justice indicated to the Mail that eretailers would be liable for prosecution if a judge found that the ebooks breached the law. Smith's home page displays an apology ... You have our promise that we will do all we can to ensure the exceptions that have caused this current situation will not have a lasting effect on what is an exciting new channel that connects Readers to a wealth of books."


http://lunch.publishersmarketplace.com/2013/10/self-publishing-takes-wh-smith/

"Shock and awe at WH Smith"



> *Both WHS and Kobo have stressed that this is not a problem isolated either to its site, or to self-published writers.* In some ways they might count themselves unlucky to be the prime target of the Mail's hostile glare: prior to the Mail report almost all the tweets about this subject from the journalist Jeremy Duns have been directed at Amazon. News website the Kernel's first piece focussed solely on Amazon, while its second piece referenced "Barnes & Noble, W H Smith, Waterstones and Foyles". In terms of market impact, Amazon is the driver of self-published material, not WHS.
> 
> But WHS holds a special place in the mind of middle-Britain: it's a family retailer with a high street presence. When it gets it wrong, it pays a bigger price. That explains what some might see as a massive over-reaction.


http://www.futurebook.net/content/shock-and-awe-w-h-smith#sthash.WeByYaxv.dpuf

B.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Why don't they insist all erotica use "porn" or some other word as a a keyword tag? And if they don't—ban the author (the name on the checks), and their ip address.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

VH Folland said:


> I'm not a lawyer, but in the UK there are the Obscene Publications Acts, 1959 and 1964 which allow prosecution for publishing matter deemed obscene for personal gain.


How many erotic romances legal in the US, Canada, the UK, etc., would be illegal in at least one country in the Middle East?


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Why don't they insist all erotica use "porn" or some other word as a a keyword tag? And if they don't-ban the author (the name on the checks), and their ip address.


Because erotica is erotica and porn is porn and there isn't a legal definition for either.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2013)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Why don't they insist all erotica use "porn" or some other word as a a keyword tag? And if they don't-ban the author (the name on the checks), and their ip address.


Kobo already have an adult policy authors should use when uploading through writinglife, which asks them to do almost exactly what you describe:
"If Your content contains appropriate adult or explicit material, please mark the page as containing mature content as a courtesy to other Users,...You can do this either in the subtitle or in the opening paragraph of your Shortcover." http://www.kobobooks.com/contentpolicy . 
It looks as though either Kobo weren't checking for authors who were not using it, or WH Smith was failing to filter authors who were.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Why don't they insist all erotica use "porn" or some other word as a a keyword tag? And if they don't-ban the author (the name on the checks), and their ip address.


Except that erotica, erotic romance, and porn are not the same thing. Yes, some of the works currently labeled as "erotica" are basically just porn, but not all erotica is porn, nor is all erotic romance porn.

They are all very different things.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

LeonardDHilleyII said:


> However, this is the ample time someone could make millions by starting an online erotica store and sell ebooks like Amazon, Kobo, and Smashwords.


Why? Smashwords already is.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Lana Amore said:


> _A small minority of authors published material that is, in fact, illegal. _
> 
> Just out of curiosity, in what countries are these topics/act depictions (incest, beastiality, etc) illegal to host in print? /not a lawyer


The topics are not illegal. Using them in a book in such as way that they are intended solely to titillate is illegal in many countries. As Julie pointed out, it is not the subject but the way it is used. However, the big problem was the fact that WH Smith decided that rather than be honest and own that the problem was their bad filtering to blame everyone else.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

VH Folland said:


> Kobo already have an adult policy authors should use when uploading through writinglife, which asks them to do almost exactly what you describe:
> "If Your content contains appropriate adult or explicit material, please mark the page as containing mature content as a courtesy to other Users,...You can do this either in the subtitle or in the opening paragraph of your Shortcover." http://www.kobobooks.com/contentpolicy .
> It looks as though either Kobo weren't checking for authors who were not using it, or WH Smith was failing to filter authors who were.


How many romance authors check this box? I don't, even though there are sex scenes. And how about thriller novels that depict graphic violence? What they mean by "adult" is probably graphic sex, but even that's not so easy to define.

I was forced to mark one of my books as "adult" by Smashwords, though it is at mainstream romance heat levels, probably because the cover is cartoonish and the reader was surprised.

I don't have any solutions or demands to this issue. I don't believe my romantic comedy books with 2.5 sex scenes should be put in an erotica dungeon, except for the one novella that is an erotic romance. But the bookstores have to decide that based on their customers' wishes. I hope the profits indie writers are bringing to all ebookstores are large enough to drive a solution that works for most of us.


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## Bilinda Ní Siodacaín (Jun 16, 2011)

Very interesting and well thought out responses from Selena Kitt on her blog and Michelle Fox on Indie Reader.

http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2013/10/15/porn-hunt-2013-gossip-boys-researching-porn-real-hard/

http://indiereader.com/2013/10/banning-books/


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Sarah Stimson said:


> Interesting approach to this here : https://medium.com/on-publishing/36a575f57aa9


W.H. Smith curates the selection of books on offer? Has the author ever been inside a brick and mortar W.H. Smith store? Those stores are a jumble of magazines, stationery, toys, snacks and often chaotic book shelves. And their curation is usually limited to "Does this have media exposure?" and "Can we sell this in a 2 for 3 deal?"

And BTW, unlike Amazon Kobo actually operates in muslim majority countries e.g. in the Middle East. Yet the moral panic came from the UK, not the UAE. As for the Obscene Publications Act, I'm stunned that such a thing still exists in the 21st century.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

CoraBuhlert said:


> W.H. Smith curates the selection of books on offer? Has the author ever been inside a brick and mortar W.H. Smith store? Those stores are a jumble of magazines, stationery, toys, snacks and often chaotic book shelves. And their curation is usually limited to "Does this have media exposure?" and "Can we sell this in a 2 for 3 deal?"


Exactly, there are hardly any books in our WH Smith except for those celebrity ones and most of it is taken up with a post office now instead of books. I don't think of them as a bookshop any longer.


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

I note that Draft2Digital have responded _three times_ already to my email alerting them, for information, to the problem. They are all over it like a rash. Smashwords - of course I kept the email - have just responded with a link to my empty Kobo page and the following text: Thanks for your email. Please take a look at your Channel Manager as I see that you have opted out of Kobo for most of your titles. The books that are opted in to Kobo are appearing here: (link to empty page).

Nice to see that the team at Smashers have their finger on the pulse. *sigh* Customer service. Need some.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Chris Northern said:


> Nice to see that the team at Smashers have their finger on the pulse. *sigh* Customer service. Need some.


Are you in the UK? Smashwords may not realize that Kobo apparently show different pages to people depending on where you are.

For example, my books through Smashwords certainly showed up on Kobo to me last night, but I've no idea whether they're visible in the UK.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

My publishers thought my book showed up - they're in the States. I sent them a screen shot showing that my book had ceased to exist on Kobo when viewed from the UK. I can only hope this works itself out and soon.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Annette_g said:


> Exactly, there are hardly any books in our WH Smith except for those celebrity ones and most of it is taken up with a post office now instead of books. I don't think of them as a bookshop any longer.


I think it depends on the branch and how big the store is. The train station and airport stores only carry bestsellers most of the time, but some of the bigger highstreet stores have book sections that actually contain books. It's still a jumbled mess though.


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

Edward M. Grant said:


> Are you in the UK? Smashwords may not realize that Kobo apparently show different pages to people depending on where you are.


This is the link sent, so I don't think that can be the issue... http://store.kobobooks.com/en-US/Search?query=Chris%20Northern&fcsearchfield=Author

If I, just for example, were sending someone a link to assure them all is as it should be... I think I'd click on the link I was sending first. Maybe I'm expecting too much initiative from the employee. Maybe. But, for myself, I might then think, oh, all is not okay, I wonder what goes on? I might then do a google search, check the news, and not just assume the author is an idiot and treat the author accordingly. But maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm being unreasonable. Maybe.

Time was, once upon a, I would have copied to Mark with a "huh?!" in the sure and certain knowledge that he, at least, would have got it. But that was then and this is now. Now I really just don't care enough to be bothered because the problems are systemic and not being addressed. "I've responded" is not semantically equal to "I've done my job" and I've given up on pointing that out.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Chris Northern said:


> If I, just for example, were sending someone a link to assure them all is as it should be... I think I'd click on the link I was sending first. Maybe I'm expecting too much initiative from the employee.


From Canada, I see four books on that page.

More specifically, I see four books on the page it redirects me to, with en-CA in the URL.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Edward M. Grant said:


> From Canada, I see four books on that page.
> 
> More specifically, I see four books on the page it redirects me to, with en-CA in the URL.


I clicked the link too (in the UK) and it showed me: Sorry! Your search for "Chris Northern" did not return any results.


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

Edward M. Grant said:


> From Canada, I see four books on that page.
> 
> More specifically, I see four books on the page it redirects me to, with en-CA in the URL.


Most genuine thanks for the info. But "D*mn." Now I have to admit to being a grumpy git and respond to the email pointing out what seemed obvious to me, though I still wonder what interpretation was put on the 'for your information' header in my email to them. I meant 'for _your_ information," guys!

Okay, still feeling grumpy.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Chris Northern said:


> This is the link sent, so I don't think that can be the issue... http://store.kobobooks.com/en-US/Search?query=Chris%20Northern&fcsearchfield=Author
> 
> If I, just for example, were sending someone a link to assure them all is as it should be... I think I'd click on the link I was sending first.


From Belgium, Europe: 4 books on the redirected link http://www.kobobooks.com/search/search.html?q=chris%20northern


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I see four books from Germany.


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## Raquel Lyon (Mar 3, 2012)

Annette_g said:


> Exactly, there are hardly any books in our WH Smith except for those celebrity ones and most of it is taken up with a post office now instead of books. I don't think of them as a bookshop any longer.


W H Smith is, and always has been, first and foremost, a newsagent.

And Cora, not all branches are a jumbled mess, I guarantee it!


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## AriadneW (Feb 16, 2013)

I discovered tonight that it's not just WH Smith, Whitcoulls in NZ is not selling ebooks at all at the moment and their website has this message:

Due to recent publicity surrounding eBook publishing through automated feeds provided by our eBook partner, Kobo, Whitcoulls has suspended the sale of eBooks through our website.  This suspension will remain in place until we can guarantee that any inappropriate material, that has been available through self published eBooks, has been removed from the Kobo eBook catalogue.

If you have any questions regarding eBook purchases or sales, please contact our Customer Service team.


Amusingly they also have a banner ad running across the front page of the website advertising e-reader specials.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

Out of curiosity I've put together a quick survey on the type of books removed. 
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W82N6TY

If you've lost books, please add your figures. This is just curiosity, but it is a way to find out what percentage of the books affected by the removal are "adult content" - I suspect it is a very low fraction.


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

VH Folland said:


> Out of curiosity I've put together a quick survey on the type of books removed.
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W82N6TY
> 
> If you've lost books, please add your figures. This is just curiosity, but it is a way to find out what percentage of the books affected by the removal are "adult content" - I suspect it is a very low fraction.


Some of us had books removed from Amazon rather than Kobo.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

WordSaladTongs said:


> Some of us had books removed from Amazon rather than Kobo.


The software only allows ten questions, so I'm focusing on WH Smith and Kobo at the moment since they are the ones in the news.

The response has been quite interesting (and busy) - so far it seems most of the removed books were Science Fiction or Fantasy, with Action/Adventure and Historical also tying for number of books removed. That's over four times as many books from other genres removed in just those categories as were removed in erotica: possibly an indicator of an overreaction.

More feedback would be welcome.


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

VH Folland said:


> The software only allows ten questions, so I'm focusing on WH Smith and Kobo at the moment since they are the ones in the news.
> 
> The response has been quite interesting (and busy) - so far it seems most of the removed books were Science Fiction or Fantasy, with Action/Adventure and Historical also tying for number of books removed. That's over four times as many books from other genres removed in just those categories as were removed in erotica: possibly an indicator of an overreaction.
> 
> More feedback would be welcome.


I filled it out. Thanks for doing this.


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

I filled it out.  I won't miss either outlet, but I hope that those folks who do well there will be allowed back in asap.


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## Colin H (Oct 21, 2011)

VH Folland said:


> The software only allows ten questions, so I'm focusing on WH Smith and Kobo at the moment since they are the ones in the news.
> 
> The response has been quite interesting (and busy) - so far it seems most of the removed books were Science Fiction or Fantasy, with Action/Adventure and Historical also tying for number of books removed. That's over four times as many books from other genres removed in just those categories as were removed in erotica: possibly an indicator of an overreaction.
> 
> More feedback would be welcome.


I have replied and my three Fantasy novels have been removed confirming what you have gathered so far. Can't really understand the reason why Fantasy should be bearing the brunt of Kobo's actions. Non of my books contain anything ( covers or content) that could remotely be considered offensive.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

AriadneW said:


> I discovered tonight that it's not just WH Smith, Whitcoulls in NZ is not selling ebooks at all at the moment and their website has this message:
> 
> Due to recent publicity surrounding eBook publishing through automated feeds provided by our eBook partner, Kobo, Whitcoulls has suspended the sale of eBooks through our website. This suspension will remain in place until we can guarantee that any inappropriate material, that has been available through self published eBooks, has been removed from the Kobo eBook catalogue.


*head to desk*

You know what? At this point, if I was Kobo, I would be having my lawyer carefully review my contracts with these retailers for potential breach of contract.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> *head to desk*
> 
> You know what? At this point, if I was Kobo, I would be having my lawyer carefully review my contracts with these retailers for potential breach of contract.


As stupidly as Kobo has been behaving, I'm sure their attorneys have been busy doing just that.

I filled out the survey.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> You know what? At this point, if I was Kobo, I would be having my lawyer carefully review my contracts with these retailers for potential breach of contract.


The attorneys will crank up the billable hours, but what are they looking for?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Terrence OBrien said:


> The attorneys will crank up the billable hours, but what are they looking for?


They're attorneys. They'll find something.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Regarding the idea of firms with a business relationsgip criticizing ach other, Apple and Samsung are instructive.

Samsung makes screens for Apple while they are suing each other in multiple countries. Each is accusing the other of misconduct while they continue to do screen business.

A firm will routinely tell employees to keep quiet on various issues. One major reason for ths is so the company can speak with a single voice. 

So are Apple and Samsung unprofessional? I don't know. I still don't know what the word means.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who submitted their data for the survey (still up at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W82N6TY). While D2D and Kobo could tell us more easily what genres were affected, it is unlikely they will release figures, so these should give a few hard figures for bloggers to refer to.

A quick results summary so far (there have been a few more submitted since I compiled these):

Of the responding authors:
80% of authors lost books on Kobo. 
72% of all authors who responded to the survey lost all their books.
60% of the authors submitting (all of who lost books in the purge) do not write any form of adult content. A further 10% left comments indicating they write consensual adult sex - not the "objectionable content" mentioned in the articles.

463 books were reported removed.
15% of books removed were small-press, not self-published.
15% of the book genres affected were erotica.
(More books were removed in both Romance and Science-fiction than erotica. Fantasy ties.)

60% of authors felt they have lost out. Most are concerned about the reputation and knock-on effects. Among the 40% not concerned, 12% felt that they did not lose out because Kobo was not a major channel for them.

Over 80% of respondants have a negative view of WH Smiths.
Over 60% have a negative view of Kobo.
From the comments, this gap appears to be due to WH Smith's statement which was seen as negatively portraying self-publishing and small press works.

The survey is still live at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W82N6TY so add your views if you want to. Please leave a name or website - it is optional, but it lets me check for duplicate submissions.


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