# The Kindle Indie Bookstore



## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

Over in the discussion on "are indies churning out books," one post pointed out Amazon's announcement yesterday, saying they were opening a Kindle Indie Bookstore.

They describe it as including "top selling, popular and high quality books," and you can't ask to be featured in it. Instead, Amazon will pick the books, using a "combination of automated techniques and editorial activities to select books based on criteria that we believe will best serve the interest of Kindle readers."

Here's the KDP FAQ link: https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/help?moduleId=200734540.

Looks interesting to me, and I'm certainly curious to see what will show up in it.

What do others think?


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## Kenneth Rosenberg (Dec 3, 2010)

I think that's really cool. Here is the link to the actual Kindle Indie Books page:

http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=amb_link_355831402_8?ie=UTF8&node=3059252011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=left-1&pf_rd_r=0YZ9N348D44XDHKPP73F&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1314231162&pf_rd_i=1286228011

I think I'll bookmark this one and go back and check it every now and then. At the moment they are featuring (drum roll please...) Amanda Hocking! It kind of makes sense that they'd start out with her. It will be interesting to see who is featured next.

Update: Apparently they have more than one featured author at a time. When I reloaded the page it was John Locke.


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

I've been back a few times, and it's featured one of those two each time.

I think it's a great idea and a good start on promoting indies, though.  The books will still be listed in the Kindle Store, and now, in addition to all the information you can learn about an indie book on forums like the Boards or Goodreads, there'll be a store specific to them.

Hard to see any downside in that.


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## Lisa J. Yarde (Jul 15, 2010)

Their focus on certain genres makes no sense to me. A friend of mine has been a consistent bestseller in historical fiction for several months, yet the category isn't featured. Hope we see a little more variety on this Amazon list in the future.


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## KateEllison (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm excited about this development. It gives indies more exposure, and now it's easier to search them out directly straight from Amazon.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

I have no idea what to think.  I always wanted to write a good book liked by readers.  I never really wanted to be "sorted" into indie or non-indie.  I actually think in some ways sorting it this way can hurt.  HOWEVER, if people like the books on the best seller list (assuming they find and give them a chance) then I would imagine it might tempt them to try other indie works.

That said, those resistant to indies will probably not shop on that page so it isn't likely to change any minds.  Those who already like indie authors...I have no idea how they shop and select!  

No idea.  I think I've only read one of the books in one of the categories, but I didn't do an exhaustive search.


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

I'm torn on the idea. On the one hand, I think it could be great for showcasing indie books that others are enjoying.

On the other hand, I agree with Maria -- I'm not sure how great it is for us to be showcased as indies. That label still probably carries a stigma with a lot of people.

One thing I worry about is whether eventually all indie books will migrate to this section (not listed on the main Amazon site) and people will have to go there to find our books. (Maybe I've missed an announcement that this won't happen; I haven't read all the details.)

Still, I'm really impressed with Amazon and am always interested to see what they'll come up with next.


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

To be honest, it likely won't change my habits. I don't often buy new books, but when I do I go looking for something specific, and this is just another catalog. Also, just in terms of practicality, the Bestsellers of any sales model are just not generally books I'm interested in reading. So, this new "indie section" just looks like the regular one to me - as a reader, I don't really care about the publisher's name, anyway, except in category product (which I tend to get secondhand). 

ETA: Also, features on authors that ebook-forum-folk have all heard about (even if you don't read in their genres) doesn't really help me all that much. It's not like I'm going to look and say, "Hmm, thanks for introducing me to this little unknown guy, Locke." If I wanted his books, I'd already have them. So, less than helpful, that (IMO).


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> I have no idea what to think. I always wanted to write a good book liked by readers. I never really wanted to be "sorted" into indie or non-indie. I actually think in some ways sorting it this way can hurt. HOWEVER, if people like the books on the best seller list (assuming they find and give them a chance) then I would imagine it might tempt them to try other indie works.


Fair points, obviously.

To me, it feels very much as though Amazon feels the weight of people interested in these books, and potentially also the frustration some have expressed about quality, and they've combined that in a way that seeks to identify the best indie books - which clearly would be not only to Amazon's benefit, but to the benefit of the authors who get listed.

But more than creating indie versus non-indie (it looks like both would still be in the "Kindle Store," too...), I tend to think it elevates many indie authors into a more prominent light, which would be a good thing.

It does cut some books into classes, though. On that point, indie/non-indie already exists, but one that doesn't exist is within the indie books themselves. What will that be like, I wonder...


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

lyarde11751 said:


> Their focus on certain genres makes no sense to me. A friend of mine has been a consistent bestseller in historical fiction for several months, yet the category isn't featured. Hope we see a little more variety on this Amazon list in the future.


For whatever it's worth, they offered up a short statement on the fact that they have only seven genres called out: "We chose seven categories that our Kindle readers look at frequently. Periodically we will review our top selling categories and add to the Kindle Indie Bookstore so that readers can enjoy more variety of great indie books."

That was on the FAQ page.


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

Patrick Reinken said:


> Fair points, obviously.
> 
> To me, it feels very much as though Amazon feels the weight of people interested in these books, and potentially also the frustration some have expressed about quality, and they've combined that in a way that seeks to identify the best indie books - which clearly would be not only to Amazon's benefit, but to the benefit of the authors who get listed.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think this is their way to optimize their profile among people who specifically seek out indies, and also as a way to mainstream the elite of the indie world by addressing peoples' (valid) quality control concerns. Sales numbers and quantity of reviews is the easiest way for computers to do that, so I can see why they've gone that way.

I had wondered how they would go about directing people to the indies they deem more professional than the free-for-all mode. They always had sales rankings, but this is a better store front vehicle, to spotlight the sure-sellers (and crowd pleasers).


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

Patrick Reinken said:


> For whatever it's worth, they offered up a short statement on the fact that they have only seven genres called out: "We chose seven categories that our Kindle readers look at frequently. Periodically we will review our top selling categories and add to the Kindle Indie Bookstore so that readers can enjoy more variety of great indie books."
> 
> That was on the FAQ page.


It's funny - they'll likely never have erotica, as that remains their dirty (profitable) little secret.


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## Erica Sloane (May 11, 2011)

anne_holly said:


> erotica...remains their dirty (profitable) little secret.


Me too!


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

Erica Sloane said:


> Me too!


I know the feeling!

But, while we're hiding from our auntie Mabel, Amazon is hiding from hundreds of auntie Mabels.


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## BRONZEAGE (Jun 25, 2011)

It's a bit early to say what direction the new "indie" store will take. 

Amazon has yet to recognize small publisher accounts in any meaningful way as it does titles from Big Six houses, or to sort the slush pile of indies it has on offer ( including pirate copies),

or to recognize titles that win valid indie awards ( : IPPY, Next Generation, Ben Franklin/IBPA, and Foreword winners; to name a few of the judged competitions). 

Would agree that so far the new storefront shows off the "crowd pleasers" -- and that so far it uses rough categories. It is amusing that Amazon claims in its FAQ to have "editors" busily sorting the indies. Editors?  Really ? What sort of editors would that be?


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

No horror fiction there -- it seems -- except a few oversexed vampires. That's just great.


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## J.L. McPherson (Mar 20, 2011)

Tony Richards said:


> No horror fiction there -- it seems -- except a few oversexed vampires. That's just great.


Yeah, I'd like to see Horror and Western genres added eventually.


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

anne_holly said:


> I had wondered how they would go about directing people to the indies they deem more professional than the free-for-all mode. They always had sales rankings, but this is a better store front vehicle, to spotlight the sure-sellers (and crowd pleasers).


And they're interested in storefronts and sure-sellers and crowd-pleasers because, of course, Amazon sells books.

Back when they started in 1995, that's all they did - they set out to be the world's largest bookstore, and they only sold books.

They still know how to do it....


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

lyarde11751 said:


> Their focus on certain genres makes no sense to me. A friend of mine has been a consistent bestseller in historical fiction for several months, yet the category isn't featured. Hope we see a little more variety on this Amazon list in the future.


Agreed, I was disappointed by that as well. They say:



> Why do you only feature a select number of genres in the Kindle Indie Bookstore?
> We chose seven categories that our Kindle readers look at frequently. Periodically we will review our top selling categories and add to the Kindle Indie Bookstore so that readers can enjoy more variety of great indie books.


But historical fiction is a very popular genre right now.


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

BRONZEAGE said:


> It's a bit early to say what direction the new "indie" store will take.
> 
> Amazon has yet to recognize small publisher accounts in any meaningful way as it does titles from Big Six houses, or to sort the slush pile of indies it has on offer ( including pirate copies),
> 
> ...


It's an interesting question. They say "automated techniques and editorial activities," and we can be pretty confident that Amazon - with its click-through counting and recommendation system and tagging to gauge consumer interest and all the rest of those things - can count and run numbers. So "automated techniques and editorial activities" could mean anything from hands-on review by real people, to statistical analyses of consumer activity, to how long it took for an author to get through KDP publication, to error check scans of submitted and published books.

We'll just have to see what it looks like as it comes into real shape, and then how it changes over time.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I looked at a few of the categories and there are quite a few of our own KB authors. We'll have to wait to hear from them if their sales have increased even more because of being singled out.


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## indiebookslist (Aug 5, 2011)

Ok, so there were a few things that seemed to change with this new announcement...maybe I am just late to the party. 1.) They seemed to have changed the recommendation algorithm, at least ever so slightly. One of our friends is seeing markedly better sales since the whole "KDP analytics freeze" yesterday.

2.) They started to show highlighted excerpts for specific books. My wife's books began showing 2-3 passages that had been highlighted by readers. That was something very new, at least to us.

3.) Amazon makes more money off indies than traditional publishers. Highlighting great indie work is a way to put the squeeze on the big publishing houses. If it works, they can get them to come back to the reasonable ground of $9.99, where people will buy the book.

It's a win/win for everybody (except Apple). The war is on between Apple and Amazon, and Amazon is going to win it.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

I looked through it a bit, and then looked at the Top 100 Indie books list. I was thrilled to see many names I recognize and have read.

I saw a book on there with only 3 reviews, all 4 or 5 star... but I dunno what significance that bears honestly. Amazon will choose what it wants to choose.


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm probably going to be doing most of my browse-and-buying there.

I've been reading a lot of writing and publishing blogs lately and unless I'm being lied to the publishing industry has pretty much been ripping authors off for ages.  The notion that a publisher makes more from a book than an author is just wrong.

The Indie Store should allow me to pay my money to the people who create the things I enjoy which is how it should be.

And it should weed out some (most, or dare we hope all) of the crap people didn't put any time and care into.

As for the limited genres and the Locke/Hocking lock on the featured author, I would imagine that's going to change as things move forward.  Amazon wants to sell books.  They make money selling indie books.  They're going to make it as easy as possible for folks to find what they want to buy.

We should re-evaluate in six months or so.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Gregory Lynn said:


> I'm probably going to be doing most of my browse-and-buying there.
> 
> I've been reading a lot of writing and publishing blogs lately and unless I'm being lied to the publishing industry has pretty much been ripping authors off for ages. The notion that a publisher makes more from a book than an author is just wrong.
> 
> ...


I think it's a good thing for readers who might be looking for new authors and a boost for indies as a whole.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

BRONZEAGE said:


> It is amusing that Amazon claims in its FAQ to have "editors" busily sorting the indies. Editors? Really ? What sort of editors would that be?


Probably the same ones which run the Kindle Daily Blog and choose Kindle Singles too:
http://www.kindlepost.com/
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2486013011

And the general Editor's Picks too:
http://www.amazon.com/Editors-Picks-Kindle-eBooks/b?ie=UTF8&node=353898011


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

At least they have made it easier to find now.









ok.. yes the yellow scribble and circle are MY additions... not that I think ANY of you thought otherwise...


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2011)

BTackitt said:


> At least they have made it easier to find now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was there a single book on there you didn't already own? No false modesty here.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Actually I don't own any of the John Locke books.. they just don't appeal to me.

All of the ones listed by KB authors, Yeah I already own them.


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure what to think about it. I don't just buy traditional, and I don't just buy indie. I buy both, so I'm not sure what benefit there is. I'll likely keep buying and browsing the standard way. On the other hand, I do buy more indie now than I used to and there are more and more excellent books. 

I hope it's not some plan to put indies over in a corner the way B&N seems to want to do. But Amazon doesn't seem to operate that way.

Shrug. Will just wait and see. I trust Amazon to sell me good books. The algorithms are always revealing new, interesting things to me that I'd never heard of before.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

David Alastair Hayden said:


> I'm not entirely sure what to think about it. I don't just buy traditional, and I don't just buy indie. I buy both, so I'm not sure what benefit there is. I'll likely keep buying and browsing the standard way. On the other hand, I do buy more indie now than I used to and there are more and more excellent books.
> 
> I hope it's not some plan to put indies over in a corner the way B&N seems to want to do. But Amazon doesn't seem to operate that way.
> 
> Shrug. Will just wait and see. I trust Amazon to sell me good books. The algorithms are always revealing new, interesting things to me that I'd never heard of before.


I think "bookstore" may given the wrong impression and in fact, Amazon don't appear to be using it (I think they did at first but dropped it). At the moment, it's just a section to highlight some of the best indie books available for Kindle - I can't see any master plan to remove indie books from the main shopping sections. It's like the Editor's Picks and Kindle Singles sections but for indie books. I think they're just trying to show people one of the many benefits of Kindle is all the great inexpensive indie books, short stories and novellas available. Maybe to counteract all the hikes in prices we've seen recently with traditional publishers. With so many people complaining about that, maybe Amazon have been thinking "How can we show people that there are still plenty of great books available for a reasonable cost?" and came to the conclusion that highlighting the best indie books was a way to do it.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

history_lover said:


> I think "bookstore" may given the wrong impression and in fact, Amazon don't appear to be using it (I think they did at first but dropped it). At the moment, it's just a section to highlight some of the best indie books available for Kindle - I can't see any master plan to remove indie books from the main shopping sections. It's like the Editor's Picks and Kindle Singles sections but for indie books. I think they're just trying to show people one of the many benefits of Kindle is all the great inexpensive indie books, short stories and novellas available. Maybe to counteract all the hikes in prices we've seen recently with traditional publishers. With so many people complaining about that, maybe Amazon have been thinking "How can we show people that there are still plenty of great books available for a reasonable cost?" and came to the conclusion that highlighting the best indie books was a way to do it.


I agree. . . . .it's a bit of 'sticking it to' traditional publishers because it's drawing attention to well written, well priced books. 

And it's good for readers in general because I do think a lot of the "generic reading public" has probably been reluctant to try independently published books because of all sorts of perceptions, real or imagined. I expect they may skip over the $2 and $3 books because they just aren't sure there's quality at that price. But these have been vetted to some extent, which I think will make the average reader (who doesn't frequent KindleBoards) be willing to give them a try.

Just one more way for Amazon to put pressure on the big publishers. . . .


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## Sean Thomas Fisher (Mar 25, 2011)

J.L. McPherson said:


> Yeah, I'd like to see Horror and Western genres added eventually.


Horror fiction... Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.


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## Harry Shannon (Jul 30, 2010)

It will be interesting to watch, but Amazon will most certainly be looking out for Amazon.


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

Harry Shannon said:


> It will be interesting to watch, but Amazon will most certainly be looking out for Amazon.


Yeah, they will. But they're a business, and that's what businesses do, of course.

The bigger issue is whether Amazon's efforts to benefit themselves will also have a benefit for writers, and at least at this very early glance, it looks like they might. So I'm cautiously optimistic.


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

Sean Thomas Fisher said:


> Horror fiction... Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.


Horror was a bride. Was happily married in the 80's. Apparently there was a divorce.


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## BRONZEAGE (Jun 25, 2011)

history_lover said:


> Probably the same ones which run the Kindle Daily Blog and choose Kindle Singles too:
> http://www.kindlepost.com/
> http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=2486013011
> 
> ...


None of those links define how the term "editor" comes into play. They could also claim they have "nuclear scientists" choosing the titles !


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## BRONZEAGE (Jun 25, 2011)

BTackitt said:


> ok.. yes the yellow scribble and circle are MY additions... not that I think ANY of you thought otherwise...


BTackitt, your yellow graffiti looks great, wish it appeared there in fact.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

BRONZEAGE said:


> None of those links define how the term "editor" comes into play. They could also claim they have "nuclear scientists" choosing the titles !


Okay, so what would you call them? I guess I'm just not that concerned with what they've titled the team - what's the big deal?


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

history_lover said:


> Okay, so what would you call them? I guess I'm just not that concerned with what they've titled the team - what's the big deal?


I think he means that by saying editor, it implies they might have edited the books when, in fact, they haven't. That's a guess though and using the term is a bit faulty unless the editors have actually AT LEAST read the books.

I think they are using it to show some sort of "we've had professionals" check these out--as opposed to, "They were reader picks." If Amazon only uses algorithms (these are best sellers) and editors don't do more than glance at formatting...using editors kind of implies a bit more "care" than is actually taken. If editors do read them and do some sort of quality (formatting, spelling, there is a plot) then it really is a stamp of approval from a Professional Standpoint. But it's really not clear...

BTW, I can't believe they left off Horror. Historical yes, it's a sub-genre usually of romance or mystery/etc. But horror?

If the program (whatever it is) continues, I hope they do add more genres.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

MariaESchneider said:


> I think he means that by saying editor, it implies they might have edited the books when, in fact, they haven't. That's a guess though and using the term is a bit faulty unless the editors have actually AT LEAST read the books.
> 
> I think they are using it to show some sort of "we've had professionals" check these out--as opposed to, "They were reader picks." If Amazon only uses algorithms (these are best sellers) and editors don't do more than glance at formatting...using editors kind of implies a bit more "care" than is actually taken. If editors do read them and do some sort of quality (formatting, spelling, there is a plot) then it really is a stamp of approval from a Professional Standpoint. But it's really not clear...


Well I don't know how the indie books are picked but the Kindle Editors do also write a blog so it's not like it's a fabricated team. I don't think they are just formatting editors if they're writing for a blog.


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> I think they are using it to show some sort of "we've had professionals" check these out--as opposed to, "They were reader picks." If Amazon only uses algorithms (these are best sellers) and editors don't do more than glance at formatting...using editors kind of implies a bit more "care" than is actually taken. If editors do read them and do some sort of quality (formatting, spelling, there is a plot) then it really is a stamp of approval from a Professional Standpoint. But it's really not clear...
> 
> BTW, I can't believe they left off Horror. Historical yes, it's a sub-genre usually of romance or mystery/etc. But horror?
> 
> If the program (whatever it is) continues, I hope they do add more genres.


I read it the same way - in fact, wasn't it automated tools and "editorial activities"...? For all I know, that could mean _we're gonna kind of sort through the books and decide if they're something we like_. You know, like an "editor" who's making a first decision on whether to publish something.

And I'll add my name to the list of people who are particularly surprised by horror being left out of the genres. I don't see how they couldn't add it in the future; it's just too popular.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

BRONZEAGE said:


> BTackitt, your yellow graffiti looks great, wish it appeared there in fact.


I'm on vacation atm, and on my laptop, so actually I figure that the writing wasn't too bad considering it was my fingertip on the touch pad part of my laptop, and it's the only time I ever use any kind of touch screen... no touch screen anything else in my life.

back on topic now:
Since I did already own so many of the books shown in the indie store, what I started doing was going through the "customers also bought" listings for each book. Many of those aren't listed in the "indie store", so I was discovering a few new writers... I did a bit of digging to get writers that WEREN'T KB members that I recognized. It was nice to see many names I did know among the also boughts though..


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## Casper Parks (May 1, 2011)

BTackitt said:


> Actually I don't own any of the John Locke books.. they just don't appeal to me.
> 
> All of the ones listed by KB authors, Yeah I already own them.


I wonder how many KB authors are on that list.


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## indiebookslist (Aug 5, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> BTW, I can't believe they left off Horror. Historical yes, it's a sub-genre usually of romance or mystery/etc. But horror?


Horror is left out of quite a few venues these days, and I can't quite understand why. Perhaps "paranormal romance" has taken the supernatural side, and "bloody thrillers/mysteries" have taken the other portion. The genre is suffering from a lack of exposure.


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## Nancy Fulda (Apr 24, 2011)

It's not just Locke and Hocking.  Nancy C. Johnson is in there, too, and I'm sure they'll also add more.

I'm guessing that Horror is left out because it offends too many people's sensibilities.  (Yeah, I know... Romance does too, but look at the Romance covers they've chosen: Very tame, very sedate.  Horror covers tend to be more disturbing; have to be, if they're going to attract their target audience.)


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## Sean Thomas Fisher (Mar 25, 2011)

Nancy Fulda said:


> I'm guessing that Horror is left out because it offends too many people's sensibilities. (Yeah, I know... Romance does too, but look at the Romance covers they've chosen: Very tame, very sedate. Horror covers tend to be more disturbing; have to be, if they're going to attract their target audience.)


I'm not sure any of this is true. If horror _offended_ so many people, I doubt most horror movies would usually debut at #1 (or close to it) at the box office with $30+ million. And I've seen plenty of horror covers that aren't disturbing. They don't _have to be_. In fact, many fans have commented on Amazon's Zombie Forum that they tend to prefer more subtle artwork.


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## Nancy Fulda (Apr 24, 2011)

It's entirely possible for something to offend one segment of the population and be extremely appealing to another segment. Take erotica as a prime example.

Looking at the covers in Amazon's Indie Bookstore, they've gone with a very mainstream selection of books and images. I'm guessing they don't want stuff in there that will make any significant portion of the population say, "Eww."

I could be totally off-base, though. Heaven knows, it's happened before. 



Sean Thomas Fisher said:


> I'm not sure any of this is true. If horror _offended_ so many people, I doubt most horror movies would usually debut at #1 (or close to it) at the box office with $30+ million. And I've seen plenty of horror covers that aren't disturbing. They don't _have to be_. In fact, many fans have commented on Amazon's Zombie Forum that they tend to prefer more subtle artwork.


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## Nancy Fulda (Apr 24, 2011)

Further evidence: Look at the covers they've chosen for their "Fantastic Worlds, Epic Adventures" category.  Not a dragon in sight (unless you count that blue cover that's so dark it's impossible to see what's going on).  None of David Dalglish's awesomely-rendered covers, nothing reminiscent of Michael Whelan or other fantasy ghetto artwork.

They want their indie bookstore to make a clean, dignified impression.  Classy books.  No genre trash here, nope, uh-uh.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Monique Martin's Out of Time is there as are a number of other indies here from KB. I think the selection will broaden over time. Amazon didn't start out with 950,000+ books for Kindle in 2008.. Heck I remember when there were less than 20,000.. That seemed like such a HUGE number when they hit it.. I think the ones available now are just the beginning. it takes time for them to have someone "vet" the indie books because they DO want it to make a good impression and DO want it to do well. If it does well, they make more $$.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Nancy Fulda said:


> Further evidence: Look at the covers they've chosen for their "Fantastic Worlds, Epic Adventures" category. Not a dragon in sight (unless you count that blue cover that's so dark it's impossible to see what's going on). None of David Dalglish's awesomely-rendered covers, nothing reminiscent of Michael Whelan or other fantasy ghetto artwork.
> 
> They want their indie bookstore to make a clean, dignified impression. Classy books. No genre trash here, nope, uh-uh.


I think I saw one of David Dalglish's books out there two days ago...

I think they may have just skimmed some of the RECENT best sellers and pulled them in. Karen's first novel sold extremely well (Take the Monkey's and Run) but they've listed her just released Citizen Insane (also selling well.) It could have to do with release dates, the phase of the moon, a bird in the tree...


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Nancy Fulda said:


> Further evidence: Look at the covers they've chosen for their "Fantastic Worlds, Epic Adventures" category. Not a dragon in sight (unless you count that blue cover that's so dark it's impossible to see what's going on). None of David Dalglish's awesomely-rendered covers, nothing reminiscent of Michael Whelan or other fantasy ghetto artwork.
> 
> They want their indie bookstore to make a clean, dignified impression. Classy books. No genre trash here, nope, uh-uh.


Two of David's books are listed in Fantasy.


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## liafairchild (Apr 2, 2011)

I've heard a lot of talk about this in various social media circles and I can understand both sides of it. Personally I think it's great. However some authors are saying that this could be Amazon's way of separating Indie authors from the traditionally published authors. I'd say we need to give it some time to see what the reader response is. The fact that they are going by ratings and sales is a good sign and makes sense to me. As long as Indie authors are not left out of the overall bestseller lists then it seems fair.

_--- sorry  no self-promotion outside the Book Bazaar forum. please read our Forum Decorum thread._


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

This is some Amazon marketing to highlight what their criteria says are among the best of Indie books in various genres.  It makes it easier for the customer who is leery of buying an Indie book, since these all are 4 star (customer reviews) and above and titles which have sold at a certain threshold.  Their criteria is not perfect but it is a good beginning.  Like any good brick and mortar store--Amazon is giving better placement of products it wants it's customers to purchase.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

jackz4000 said:


> This is some Amazon marketing to highlight what their criteria says are among the best of Indie books in various genres. It makes it easier for the customer who is leery of buying an Indie book, since these all are 4 star (customer reviews) and above and titles which have sold at a certain threshold. Their criteria is not perfect but it is a good beginning. Like any good brick and mortar store--Amazon is giving better placement of products it wants it's customers to purchase.


Well, yes, except for that last line about placement. Placement in brick and mortar is paid for (Big time) by the publishers. B&N isn't the one deciding who gets placement--the publishers pay for front table, end-caps and the like. I am pretty sure no indie is paying for placement in this case...


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

jackz4000 said:


> Like any good brick and mortar store--Amazon is giving better placement of products it wants it's customers to purchase.


Actually, this is what makes Amazon special. They use algorithms to determine what suggestions to make for each customer, based on what you've purchased before. Amazon is all about the customer buying things. To be more efficient, they need to remove barriers keeping you from getting what you want and make the proper suggestions of new stuff you might like.

This is why they're so indie friendly. They don't care who wrote or published the book. They only care that someone might buy it. Naturally, the bestselling books get the most linkage and recommendations, but every book has a chance.

This is not how brick and mortar stores work. They sell co-op space in stores. Every book you see on a table or display, every book on the end of an aisle: a publisher paid for that book to be there.

B&N probably sells placement online.

iBooks is now selling placement in their store. Harper Collins is doing a big buy-in to get special promotions there. They've decided to take the easy money instead of making customers happy by best giving them what they want. But this is why Amazon is the king of selling stuff.


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## StephenLivingston (May 10, 2011)

I believe that the new amazon indie section will be a good thing for indie authors in that it will provide some extra exposure.  I'll be interested to see how it develops and I would like to see more categories added.  I'd suggest "short stories" as a category that should be added.  Best wishes, Stephen Livingston.


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## indiebookslist (Aug 5, 2011)

David Alastair Hayden said:


> This is why they're so indie friendly. They don't care who wrote or published the book. They only care that someone might buy it. Naturally, the bestselling books get the most linkage and recommendations, but every book has a chance.


Hit the nail on the head there.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Two of David's books are listed in Fantasy.


Whew. For a moment, I thought I was being considered genre-trash


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## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

Just got my KDP Newsletter, and the indie bookstore was the first blurb on it. Not much new there - basically a repeat of the 08/10 press release.

But they added a quote I hadn't seen:

"We are excited to highlight our growing selection of indie books to Kindle readers through the launch of the Kindle Indie Bookstore and provide this new avenue of exposure to KDP authors and publishers,” said Atif Rafiq, General Manager, Kindle Direct Publishing. 

New avenue of exposure to KDP authors and publishers?

Good!


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

For those who think Amazon is building a corral to put Indie (self) published books in and seperate them--there is no good reason for them to do that.  They want all the diversity and titles available for their Kindle and Amazon store and seperating does not help.  Just a little marketing on a product category they want to spotlight.  Last year Amz had the Agency Pricing spat with the Big 6 and one publisher started pulling their books because Amz did not at first agree and wanted to discount further.  That won't happen again.


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## Randirogue (Apr 25, 2011)

David Alastair Hayden said:


> Actually, this is what makes Amazon special. They use algorithms to determine what suggestions to make for each customer, based on what you've purchased before. Amazon is all about the customer buying things. To be more efficient, they need to remove barriers keeping you from getting what you want and make the proper suggestions of new stuff you might like.
> 
> This is why they're so indie friendly. They don't care who wrote or published the book. They only care that someone might buy it. Naturally, the bestselling books get the most linkage and recommendations, but every book has a chance.
> 
> ...


I see references to the above bolded line a lot here. I'm a little skeptical to the extent that is. My husband used to be a lower manager in a major bookstore chain and a head store manager of one of it's affiliates. While they were given some very specific outlines for book placement, it wasn't quite as common, as specific, or strict as these statements make it out to be. The staff themselves had a lot of influence on the book placement.

For instance, I've heard the reference that publishers pay for which books are "face out" on the average shelf. That wasn't true of any of the stores that my husband or I worked in. Throughout the day, staff is expected to "maintain their section" (put out slush, make sure there are no gaps on the shelves, etc.). They are not given a list stating what books get faced out. They merely choose for themselves as they go. Sometimes this is influenced by how many copies of one book is in stock, but that doesn't account for most of the "face out" books. So... it's staff choice. And while some will purposely face out the books they like most and the covers they like most, a large majority of them just "face out" whatever will make the shelf fill out without gaps in the fastest way possible... so they can get the task done and over with. Their supervisors support this since they don't want staff dawdling on any one task.

I suppose some publishers are under the impression they have that much specific control. I suppose there are some stores that may even implement some sort of strict placement list. But probably not as many as people think.

There were some specifications for tables and such... but again... we don't remember them being quite as strict as it's made out to be here on the boards.

I wonder how many discrepancies there are between what the author is told, what the publisher is told or says, and the actual practices of the brick and mortar store... I'm thinking there are many.

Of course, it's also possible that I and my husband are completely wrong despite our personal experiences from within the operation of the brick-and-mortar major chain store. ~_~ooo No offense meant with my opposition.

As for the Kindle Indie Bookstore... I have high hopes, the very hopes many have already stated here... as well as stringent concerns... also mentioned on this thread already. I'll just have to watch and see how it plays out.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Randirogue said:


> I see references to the above bolded line a lot here. I'm a little skeptical to the extent that is. My husband used to be a lower manager in a major bookstore chain and a head store manager of one of it's affiliates. While they were given some very specific outlines for book placement, it wasn't quite as common, as specific, or strict as these statements make it out to be. The staff themselves had a lot of influence on the book placement.
> 
> For instance, I've heard the reference that publishers pay for which books are "face out" on the average shelf. That wasn't true of any of the stores that my husband or I worked in. Throughout the day, staff is expected to "maintain their section" (put out slush, make sure there are no gaps on the shelves, etc.). They are not given a list stating what books get faced out. They merely choose for themselves as they go. Sometimes this is influenced by how many copies of one book is in stock, but that doesn't account for most of the "face out" books. So... it's staff choice. And while some will purposely face out the books they like most and the covers they like most, a large majority of them just "face out" whatever will make the shelf fill out without gaps in the fastest way possible... so they can get the task done and over with. Their supervisors support this since they don't want staff dawdling on any one task.
> 
> ...


One of the major complaints you see on author blogs AND publisher discussions is that they pay for co-op (placement) and don't get it because many a store doesn't bother. So it depends on the store and how much the publisher is bothering to verify. It's become more of an issues for publishers in the last few years because it seems (from what I read) that more and more bookstores took the money, but didn't make sure employees put the books on the ends and tables.

I followed a publisher blog for a long time and he talked about it (This was in the UK where it also is supposed to happen.) It may be that as there are less and less bookstores, and bookstores don't comply, publishers won't bother (or already aren't bothering.)


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## Susan Brassfield Cogan (Mar 25, 2011)

jackz4000 said:


> For those who think Amazon is building a corral to put Indie (self) published books in and seperate them--there is no good reason for them to do that. They want all the diversity and titles available for their Kindle and Amazon store and seperating does not help. Just a little marketing on a product category they want to spotlight. Last year Amz had the Agency Pricing spat with the Big 6 and one publisher started pulling their books because Amz did not at first agree and wanted to discount further. That won't happen again.


I worry about the same thing, that it will become an indie ghetto. On the other hand they aren't going to remove the books from regular listings. Right now you are one among millions. With the indie ghetto you become one among thousands. The odds are improved. Maybe. I'll be interested in seeing how it shakes out.


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

Thanks for the link, I didn't know about this, and I admit I'm a little confused. Isn't Amazon selling lots of indie books anyway? What's the reason behind developing a separate store for indie authors? Is it really just a marketing ploy?

I know they've segregate promotion forums from the general forums, and now they seem to be segregating indie books from traditionally published books? Is that correct? Am I missing something?


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Debra Purdy Kong said:


> Thanks for the link, I didn't know about this, and I admit I'm a little confused. Isn't Amazon selling lots of indie books anyway? What's the reason behind developing a separate store for indie authors? Is it really just a marketing ploy?
> 
> I know they've segregate promotion forums from the general forums, and now they seem to be segregating indie books from traditionally published books? Is that correct? Am I missing something?


Of course it's a marketing ploy. They're in the business of selling books. Indie writers are in the business of selling books. Readers are in the business of buying books. Marketing ploys benefit everyone.

The reason behind it is to make them more visible so more people can find what they are looking for more easily.

They aren't removing indie books from regular searches or the regular store or anything. What they're doing is saying "Hey you, you guys who read a bunch of stuff, have you heard about these guys? Yeah, they're doing it a little different. They're doing what they want to do without all the crap the publishing industry makes people do. Maybe you'll like their stuff."


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## StephenLivingston (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, I'd like to see a .co.uk version of this indie bookstore starting too.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

**** friendly reminder:  authors, we're in the Book Corner so please refrain from mentioning your own books or referring to your sales figures but, rather, address the question from the point of view of yourself as 'reader'.  You can, of course, discuss it from a writer's perspective in the Writer's Cafe.  ****


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

They are not segregating. Think of it more like the highlights feature on the Kindle. The words are still in the main book when you highlight, you just ALSO get them in your My Clippings file. Indie books are STILL in the main Kindle store, some are just now in the highlight section "indie store".


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Elyssanda said:


> They are not segregating. Think of it more like the highlights feature on the Kindle. The words are still in the main book when you highlight, you just ALSO get them in your My Clippings file. Indie books are STILL in the main Kindle store, some are just now in the highlight section "indie store".


Precisely. This is just one other reason Amazon is such a great store to buy things. Bookstores will charge a price for highlighted or premier shelf space, but Amazon thinks FIRST about their customer and how they can make shopping easier and better. Indie ebooks are so much less expensive so a reader may buy the latest Grisham ebook for 12.99--but with less pricey Indie books featured they may ALSO buy a well rated one for 3.99 too. So Amazon makes an extra sale in the process.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

jackz4000 said:


> Precisely. This is just one other reason Amazon is such a great store to buy things. Bookstores will charge a price for highlighted or premier shelf space, but Amazon thinks FIRST about their customer and how they can make shopping easier and better. Indie ebooks are so much less expensive so a reader may buy the latest Grisham ebook for 12.99--but with less pricey Indie books featured they may ALSO buy a well rated one for 3.99 too. So Amazon makes an extra sale in the process.


Don't kid yourself. If Amazon thought they could charge for placement, they would be doing it. They are thinking profit and stockholder--right now our interests align with theirs. They have PLENTY of ad opportunities and sell those spaces and are constantly looking for ways to promote products that sell well.

That said, I love Amazon and what they do and how they do it. But they'd be charging for placement if they could and it made sense.


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## Meb Bryant (Jun 27, 2011)

The Kindle Indie Bookstore will definitely boost sales of the featured authors; however, I believe that the lesser known writers like myself shall get lost in the stampede.

I don't feel liked.

Meb


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## Tamara Rose Blodgett (Apr 1, 2011)

Terrific news! It can't be bad...


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Meb Bryant said:


> The Kindle Indie Bookstore will definitely boost sales of the featured authors; however, I believe that the lesser known writers like myself shall get lost in the stampede.
> 
> I don't feel liked.
> 
> Meb


Well, IF people buy an indie that is a best seller/listed book and are left with a positive impression, it can help all of us. Now granted, I say again, I'd rather just be judged as "I liked this book" not "I liked this book EVEN THOUGH it was indie" I know that if someone has a positive experience with an indie book they are much more likely to buy more of them.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm going to wait and see before I make an opinion one way or another.

There HAVE been a lot of threads wondering how to find the best of the Indies.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I'm going to wait and see before I make an opinion one way or another.
> 
> There HAVE been a lot of threads wondering how to find the best of the Indies.


Granted, most always seem to be started by *other* indies, so it's hard to know how widespread the desire actually is.


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## Evelyn Collier (Jul 7, 2011)

It sounds like a good idea if they are choosing books of quality. Maybe the rubbish indies will sink and the good ones will thrive.


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## Adam Kisiel (Jun 20, 2011)

Well see. One thing it does, it makes "indie" a different category which can be a good thing, can be a bad thing.


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## B Regan Asher (Jun 14, 2011)

When I received an e-mail from Amazon announcing the new Indie Bookstore I thought it was a terrific idea.  But, after looking at the site, I realized that it lacks many necessary features.  At a minimum it needs to allow for a search by genre and review score.  It would be even better it it provided a keyword search.


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## Vernon Baker (Jul 22, 2011)

I think this is a great idea. The cream will rise to the top and hopefully it will be one more way for new authors and their books to get noticed.

_--- sorry  no self-promotion outside the Book Bazaar forum. please read our Forum Decorum thread._


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## Randirogue (Apr 25, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> One of the major complaints you see on author blogs AND publisher discussions is that they pay for co-op (placement) and don't get it because many a store doesn't bother. So it depends on the store and how much the publisher is bothering to verify. It's become more of an issues for publishers in the last few years because it seems (from what I read) that more and more bookstores took the money, but didn't make sure employees put the books on the ends and tables.
> 
> I followed a publisher blog for a long time and he talked about it (This was in the UK where it also is supposed to happen.) It may be that as there are less and less bookstores, and bookstores don't comply, publishers won't bother (or already aren't bothering.)


Oh, Endcaps and Tables did sometimes have specifics. Sometimes even came with a layout map to follow. Of course, the supplies in the store didn't always match the needs of the layout. The staff were expected to use their own creativity in those cases since gaps and flat displays were considered more unhelpful to all the books in the display than a slight deviation from the prescribed plot did. Because of that, these displays were altered from the original plan almost as soon as it was attempted to be implemented, but mostly do to technical issues.

But, with that said... not all the tables or all the end-caps had specific plots. Sometimes they did, other times, the company's marketing department came up with themed "featured" displays... and other times it was left up to the stores. I'm not surprised that the publishers paid for the author specific end-caps, though. Probably for placement in the themed end-caps too. And of course, they probably paid for the "standee" displays, those cardboard three dimensional things that quickly lost their structure and would fall apart. I do still wonder how much the bookstore itself was "paid" for these benefits as much as they gave extra discount on the books in them. After all, the displays do the bookstores as much good as they did the publishers. Anything to move the product as quickly as possible. If a book didn't move quick enough, it got stripped of its cover and returned to the distributor for partial credit (paperbacks only - the cover mailed back, the book trashed) or shoved onto the bargain display (when "stripping" wasn't an option and the bookstore had to make back at least some of their cost of purchasing the product).

In my previous post, I was mostly talking about the regular stacks, the standard shelving, and my doubt that publishers pay to have titles "face out" on those shelves. "Face out" was all about getting as much stock on the shelf as possible while simultaneously keeping it looking attractive, neat and tidy. Logistics simply would make it too difficult for a store to keep up on publishers' controlling "face out" books on the standard shelves. Supplies varied too much throughout at given week, let alone a given day to comply consistently. And then there were the customers themselves to consider. Many customers did not put things back where they belonged. Thus, frequent straightening of the shelves yielded rapid by-eye "face outs" of books... whatever got the shelf filled, looking neat, and in order.

I know I went on a lot. I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all. I'm not. I'm merely explaining what my specific experiences as well as those of friends and family in the bookstore business entailed regarding these things. Other stores certainly could have done it differently.

This topic does make me think of this Kindle Indie Bookstore as like one of those "tables" or "end-caps" in the brick-and-mortar stores. So far, the books aren't removed from the general stock (the stacks, the standard shelves), but are highlighted as well.

I hope it works as positively for everyone involved as those "table" and "end-cap" displays did in the brick-and-mortar stores.


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## rweinstein6 (Aug 2, 2011)

This could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing. 
It could be bad, because it could be like putting the dunce in the corner all by himself.
It could be good because it might be able to showcase the GOOD indie stuff, as opposed to the popular but poorly written indie stuff.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Ah now I see.  Yes, I meant the tables, cardboard and endcaps are paid for.  Not the face-out on the shelves.  My local stores didn't do that, so I missed your point originally.

To hear the publishers tell it, they pay millions for endcaps and tables.  I'm sure that what trickles down to the actual store is rather different.  

The end cap and placement in grocery stories is also often paid for by the manufacturer (gum, candy, magazines, the "specials" at the end of the row.)


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## Randirogue (Apr 25, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> Ah now I see. Yes, I meant the tables, cardboard and endcaps are paid for. Not the face-out on the shelves. My local stores didn't do that, so I missed your point originally.
> 
> To hear the publishers tell it, they pay millions for endcaps and tables. I'm sure that what trickles down to the actual store is rather different.
> 
> The end cap and placement in grocery stories is also often paid for by the manufacturer (gum, candy, magazines, the "specials" at the end of the row.)


Hehe... yeah. On all counts.


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Meb Bryant said:


> The Kindle Indie Bookstore will definitely boost sales of the featured authors; however, I believe that the lesser known writers like myself shall get lost in the stampede.
> 
> I don't feel liked.
> 
> Meb


There's a separate bestseller list for the indie store so it's going to be easier to get your work some extra pub by being on a bestseller list.

Also on a completely unrelated note, I just went to the store and the featured author is neither Locke nor Hocking but someone named Nancy C. Johnson whom I have never heard of.


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

BTackitt said:


> They are not segregating. Think of it more like the highlights feature on the Kindle. The words are still in the main book when you highlight, you just ALSO get them in your My Clippings file. Indie books are STILL in the main Kindle store, some are just now in the highlight section "indie store".


Good, then it sounds pretty positive for everyone, on the surface. I guess we'll find out how it goes soon enough.


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## KathyGleason (May 5, 2011)

This is an interesting idea, letting the cream rise to the top, so to speak. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## Julie Christensen (Oct 13, 2010)

I like this site.  Call me stingy, but I still can't bring myself to spend a lot of money on an ebook so I mostly read indie authors on my Kindle.  This site gives me a way to find them efficiently.  I'll like it even more when they put up other genres besides fantasy/paranormal/sci-fi.  I know it sells well, but it's really not my cup of tea.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm curious about what they're going to do too. It sounds like an awesome idea though.


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