# Reader reviews



## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Hey, I'm not sure if this has come up already in the bazillion posts flying around, but I wanted to bring up a topic near and dear to the heart of authors in general: reader reviews.

Basically, I just wanted to encourage folks to consider leaving reviews on books that they read, particularly for newly released books or books by non-big-name authors <ahem>.

If it's a book that already has five hundred reviews, I - as a reader myself - wouldn't worry so much about it. But if a book doesn't have a lot, please consider taking a few minutes and letting other readers know what you think. If you liked the book and believe others would like it, tell them why; if you didn't like it, or were somewhere in between, ditto.

The reason this is important is that - as I'm sure many of you realize - reader reviews can have a huge impact on sales. If you see a book (or any other item) that has a lot of good feedback, people are much more inclined to buy it than if it doesn't have any, or only a few. And, alternatively, they're much less likely to buy something if it has negative feedback. So you're opinions there can have a very direct impact.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring that up for folks to keep in mind! 

Cheers,
Mike


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Hey, I'm not sure if this has come up already in the bazillion posts flying around, but I wanted to bring up a topic near and dear to the heart of authors in general: reader reviews.
> 
> Basically, I just wanted to encourage folks to consider leaving reviews on books that they read, particularly for newly released books or books by non-big-name authors <ahem>.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
I was leery to write a review since I am not a writer so to speak. I swallowed my pride, and fear of being ridiculed and wrote a review on Amazon yesterday for Distant Cousin. Don't think I will be offered a job as a review writer for books anytime soon  but it was heartfelt and genuine.

I will gladly write one for In Her Name also.

Linda


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Hi Mike,

Let me jump in and hijack your thread to mention video reviews. Some people, like our very own Verena, are experts at making movies on their computers and they can turn into terrific tools for communicating the "feel" of a book where a few words can't. Here's a link to the review that Sondi Miller did for one of my books:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3NOEL92FLM8T/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

Maybe folks, like Linda, who are uncomfortable with writing a review, would like to give video reviewing a try. Sondi uses Microsoft's Windows Movie Maker, which ships free in XP and Vista.

Jeff


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Sounds great Jeff, I will check it out.

Thanks  
Linda


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Let me second what Mike said. Reviews are tremendously important to the authors and publishers, especially when they are not "famous" or published by the big houses. I have been trying to be more diligent about writing reviews in recent months. It is really gratifying when you get an email from the author thanking you for your comments!

They don't have to be long or detailed. Just a few words on whether or not you liked the book, what audience it will appeal to...something to clue potential readers into finding a good book.

L


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## Mikuto (Oct 30, 2008)

As a reader (and so-far unpublished author), I want to chip in that I think reviews are important to readers too. I'm very dubious to read a book with no reviews.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Hi Mike,
> I was leery to write a review since I am not a writer so to speak. I swallowed my pride, and fear of being ridiculed and wrote a review on Amazon yesterday for Distant Cousin. Don't think I will be offered a job as a review writer for books anytime soon  but it was heartfelt and genuine.
> 
> I will gladly write one for In Her Name also.
> ...


Linda -

Don't *ever* worry about being a great writer or whatever when it comes to reviews! What is important is just what you highlighted - being heartfelt and genuine.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Let me jump in and hijack your thread to mention video reviews.


Jeff - Bad boy! 

Yeah, those are cool, too, for the technically savvy among us! I've been toying with the idea of doing a little video trailer thing (not a review, per se, but a little promo spot) for _In Her Name_, but haven't gotten around to it. All my video editing software is on my Windoze machine, and I'm not sure I can bring myself to go back to it. D'oh!

Well, maybe I can do something with iMovie...


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Well, maybe I can do something with iMovie...


If you do send me the link and I'll host it for you in my Windoze server.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Coolness!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Reviews of The Amazon Kindle FAQ are always welcome  

L


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

First, let me say unequivocally that Linda's review of Distant Cousin at Amazon was heartfelt and completely excellent, and I really appreciate her trouble. You shouldn't be self-conscious about that, Linda. It was a wonderful review.

Second, I second what Mike said about the importance of reviews to us lesser authors...uh, lesser KNOWN authors. I agree: if a book has 200 reviews already, then another probably won't make much difference, unless to the reviewer. Volume 1 of Distant Cousin only had 10 reviews, I think, so Linda's mattered, especially since she had different things to say about it. (Volumes 2 and 3 don't have that many reviews yet; I'd consider them more "needy" than Volume 1, actually.)

I review other stuff at Amazon. I reviewed a gizmo that picks fruit off trees way high up (that worked like a charm) and I heard from the guy who made them. We struck up a neat friendship in fact. 

Reviewers are just about my favorite people, good OR bad! Take a look at any volume of Patrick O'Brian's sea novels. They are arguably the greatest ever written, but they've got some stinko reviews. Doesn't matter: Book X is not for everybody, and often, the reasons why someone doesn't like a book are just as informative as the reasons they do.

Best!
///Al, aka Brassman


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> Reviewers are just about my favorite people, good OR bad! Take a look at any volume of Patrick O'Brian's sea novels. They are arguably the greatest ever written, but they've got some stinko reviews. Doesn't matter: Book X is not for everybody, and often, the reasons why someone doesn't like a book are just as informative as the reasons they do.


Yeah, what Al said! 

It's true - the folks who take the time to write a review (good or bad, as long as it's informative) are real treasures to authors, folks who make tree-picking gadgets, or whatever.

And it's absolutely true that even the best books are going to get at least some bad reviews along the way. I haven't hit any of those yet, but that's just the nature of the beast. And I'll cry when it happens! LOL!


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2008)

I've written several Amazon reviews and made both a Listmania entry and a "So You Want To..." entry.

But only one was for a book.  And it's buried pretty deep.


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

Okay ive never done this before and im so bad with grammer and spelling and punctuation so i hope i didnt mess things up to bad but i finished the third Distant Cousin book last night and had to say something so i went to Amazon and left a review for each book. I didnt actually review them because other people had i just told how much i liked them. I hope they came out all right.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

Kreelanwarrior called it, Lizzy. The proposal is passed unanimously: you are a treasure!

Mwah!
////Al


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Lizzy said:


> Okay ive never done this before and im so bad with grammer and spelling and punctuation so i hope i didnt mess things up to bad but i finished the third Distant Cousin book last night and had to say something so i went to Amazon and left a review for each book. I didnt actually review them because other people had i just told how much i liked them. I hope they came out all right.


Lizzy -

Don't worry about the grammar and all that - taking the time and making the effort to do a review is the important thing.


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

Wow. Thank you both so much. Kreelanwarrior i bought your book a day or two ago but its about third in line to read so it will be a week or so before i get to it. Its so good to see good authors on this board. I really appreciate you guys being here!


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Lizzy said:


> Wow. Thank you both so much. Kreelanwarrior i bought your book a day or two ago but its about third in line to read so it will be a week or so before i get to it. Its so good to see good authors on this board. I really appreciate you guys being here!


Cool! And actually, that timing would be good - come join us in the In Her Name book club at the beginning of February! I'm going to be leading that - i don't have a clue what to do, so it should be quite entertaining - then Al's heading up the Distant Cousin club in March. So come and join the party!


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Cool! And actually, that timing would be good - come join us in the In Her Name book club at the beginning of February! I'm going to be leading that - i don't have a clue what to do, so it should be quite entertaining - then Al's heading up the Distant Cousin club in March. So come and join the party!


Wow thats really neat. I dont normally do this kinda thing but as long as nobody knows what there doing i should be able to fit right in. Thanks!


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Lizzy said:


> Wow thats really neat. I dont normally do this kinda thing but as long as nobody knows what there doing i should be able to fit right in. Thanks!


Lizzy I didn't know what I was doing either and it is far from my norm. We can learn together. I think perhaps the more we review the more comfortable we will get and hopefully we will get better at it.  After communicating with Al and KW I now realize how important reviews are for these guys.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Lizzy I didn't know what I was doing either and it is far from my norm. We can learn together. I think perhaps the more we review the more comfortable we will get and hopefully we will get better at it.  After communicating with Al and KW I now realize how important reviews are for these guys.


Reviews - and reviewers - rock!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Lizzy I didn't know what I was doing either and it is far from my norm. We can learn together. I think perhaps the more we review the more comfortable we will get and hopefully we will get better at it.  After communicating with Al and KW I now realize how important reviews are for these guys.


I know exactly what you both mean.

I had never written a review until after I'd published my books and realized how important it was to authors. It took me all day to write my first review, which was only a few sentences. I was a nervous wreck until the author thanked me. I still hate it - I've read three books that I should have reviewed by now but I'm procrastinating.

JH


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Lizzy I didn't know what I was doing either and it is far from my norm. We can learn together. I think perhaps the more we review the more comfortable we will get and hopefully we will get better at it.  After communicating with Al and KW I now realize how important reviews are for these guys.


Exactly: the more you do the more comfortable you feel doing it. It's good for you! And we do appreciate them and they are important.

But maybe KW will also agree with this: there's something more important than reviews. I've heard that some desperate authors plant reviews, and that some skeptical browsers assume most reviews are phony. I like to think I can tell the difference, personally, but I might be kidding myself. Anyway, what's more important is when one person actually recommends a book to another friend, like here on the KindleBoards. I don't know anything better than that, unless it's Oprah holding it up on TV and swooning over it. Right, KW?

Not only that, they make handy gifts! That's pretty good too!


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Lizzy I didn't know what I was doing either and it is far from my norm. We can learn together. I think perhaps the more we review the more comfortable we will get and hopefully we will get better at it.  After communicating with Al and KW I now realize how important reviews are for these guys.


Yeah thats what i was thinking to. I read your review when i was there and it was really good. I hope your right and i hope i can get better at it. When you really like a book but you dont have anybody to tell and you want to tell somebody that is a great way to do it.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Lizzy said:


> When you really like a book but you dont have anybody to tell and you want to tell somebody that is a great way to do it.


That's about as eloquent as anybody I've ever read.


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## bkworm8it (Nov 17, 2008)

I agree that reviews are important to me as a reader and one does not need to be eloquent or grammatically correct for me to find their review good or bad. My biggest pet peeve about a lot of those who review books on amazon is that they really don't understand how to review a book. Many just do a 'book report' tell you what happended in the story (give a way some of the plot).  

I usually pay attention to reviews that come from the heart and tell you how they felt about the book, whether it pulled you in or was to disjointed, were the characters fleshed out etc. I check out Lizzy's review and yours is one I'd read and decide it's probably a good book for me.  You told how it drew you in and how even though it has some romance it was needed and didn't make it mushy (that's what I got out of your review - I don't like mushy romance - unless of ofcourse I specifically buy a book for that  ) so I would be tempted to purchase. If a few more people say about the same thing I'd purchase.  Those that just rehash and out line the plot drive me away.

Thanks Lizzy for adding your review and others from here as well. I've gotten more books recommended from kindleboards than amazon because the reviews are done as review and not book report!!!  

OK off my soap box and done with my 3 cents.... 

theresam


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## jah (Oct 28, 2008)

Wow I have to tell you the truth I never gave writting book review much thought. I don't usually review anythings. From now on I will try to remember to review the books I read.


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

jah said:


> Wow I have to tell you the truth I never gave writting book review much thought. I don't usually review anythings. From now on I will try to remember to review the books I read.


I thought about it but didn't feel qualified, but Al and KW have convinced me we are all qualified.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> But maybe KW will also agree with this: there's something more important than reviews. I've heard that some desperate authors plant reviews, and that some skeptical browsers assume most reviews are phony. I like to think I can tell the difference, personally, but I might be kidding myself. Anyway, what's more important is when one person actually recommends a book to another friend, like here on the KindleBoards. I don't know anything better than that, unless it's Oprah holding it up on TV and swooning over it. Right, KW?
> 
> Not only that, they make handy gifts! That's pretty good too!


Absolutely! See, for the author, the hardest thing - more than actually writing the book - is getting the word out that you've got a book that (hopefully) some segment of the reading population would enjoy. That's where word-of-mouth is so critical for small press and self-published authors, because we have about ZERO in terms of budget. That's the big advantage that major houses have - they can pour some money into marketing, and they have the ears of all the major reviewers. BUT, if you look around, they only put any real money on a very select few authors - the rest have to make their own way, no better than those of us doing the self-publishing schtick.

So, yes, word of mouth is absolutely vital - if you find a book you like from an indie or small press author, please let other folks know about it! And then when those folks (or others who just happen to take a gander) see the reviews on the catalog page on Amazon or B&N, they'll have some additional reassurance that they're going to enjoy what they buy.

And Al brought up another good point that's given indie authors a bad rap: authors creating a bunch of fake user IDs on Amazon and giving themselves a bunch of "great" reviews. Those guys should be hauled out and shot with rock salt. But I believe that once you get past a half dozen reviews or so - particularly if the reviews are very clearly written in different styles (including typos! <grin>), most of those cretins get left behind.

Besides, that's a stupid thing for authors to do for Kindle titles, because as soon as a reader checks out their sample they're going to know it's junk! Duh...


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## bkworm8it (Nov 17, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> I don't know anything better than that, unless it's Oprah holding it up on TV and swooning over it.


LOL I avoid any book that Oprah raves about. If its on her booklist I move on. Unless ofcourse I've read it before it gets to her booklist. Their has only been 1 book that I read then saw it on her book list much later. I tried several but her reading tastes are far different from mine  

Before amazon and reviews, i would just go to the book store and yes, judge a book buy it's cover. Actually, come to think of it, that way worked better for me   <gggggg>

theresam


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have really enjoyed almost every book Oprah gushed about, though I haven't read them all. 

I don't like writing book reviews. Never cared to write book reports in school, either. I have no problem reviewing stuff, but I find it hard to review books.


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

bkworm8it said:


> LOL I avoid any book that Oprah raves about. If its on her booklist I move on. Unless ofcourse I've read it before it gets to her booklist. Their has only been 1 book that I read then saw it on her book list much later. I tried several but her reading tastes are far different from mine
> 
> Before amazon and reviews, i would just go to the book store and yes, judge a book buy it's cover. Actually, come to think of it, that way worked better for me   <gggggg>
> 
> theresam


Her book picks may not be good reads but all she has to do is pick a book and *sales go through the roof and the author is an instant celebrity. * Two books that come to mind are Eat, Love and Pray and A Millon Little Pieces, don't recall the authors. I am too tired or too lazy  to link them. I read both of them, enjoyed one and didn't like the other. I have read many of her books and liked about 75% of them, I enjoy the opportunity to broaden my reading horizon. Have to mention I love the celebrities featured in The Book Corner in her magazine. I enjoy seeing what they are reading and have gotten some great books from there. If O chooses your book though you have made it to the big house for sure!! I do appreciate her love of reading and sharing it with others!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> I don't like writing book reviews. Never cared to write book reports in school, either. I have no problem reviewing stuff, but I find it hard to review books.


Why not try to talk Lucky Rainbow into starting some kind of "how to write a review" thread? She writes terrific reviews.


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Why not try to talk Lucky Rainbow into starting some kind of "how to write a review" thread? She writes terrific reviews.


I think a review should be a personal expression of how you felt about the book, how you related to the story line and the characters. It should be genuine and I think you would lose that if you had to refer to a "how to." I don't want my review to be a clone of someone else's. I thought it should be very professional and grammatically correct. I realize writing reviews is not the career path I chose allowing me the freedom to write exactly what I feel and think. We are people that are avid readers and enjoy a good book and the review should reflect that. A "how to" would take the fun out of it and make it more like a class. My opinion.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> I think a review should be a personal expression of how you felt about the book, how you related to the story line and the characters. It should be genuine and I think you would lose that if you had to refer to a "how to." I don't want my review to be a clone of someone else's. I thought it should be very professional and grammatically correct. I realize writing reviews is not the career path I chose allowing me the freedom to write exactly what I feel and think. We are people that are avid readers and enjoy a good book and the review should reflect that. A "how to" would take the fun out of it and make it more like a class. My opinion.


Wow. That's a little harsh. All I meant was that I'm EDIT comfortable *uncomfortable* with writing reviews and I'd like to be better at it. I guess I won't be seeing you in class.


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Wow. That's a little harsh. All I meant was that I'm comfortable with writing reviews and I'd like to be better at it. I guess I won't be seeing you in class.


Wasn't meant to be harsh at all Jeff.  Just my opinion as I stated in my previous post. Different strokes for different folks. I choose not to participate in a "how to" but that certainly should not influence you or anyone else on what you choose to do. . One of the many great things about the Kindleboards we have the freedom to share different opinions. 

I think it is a idea for Kindleboards and perhaps we could take a poll and see who is interested. I am always open to suggestion's to improve and keep the boards exciting. Since this is Betsy's territory perhaps she will address the poll idea. Once again I was in no way criticizing your idea, just giving my opinion.


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## bkworm8it (Nov 17, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Why not try to talk Lucky Rainbow into starting some kind of "how to write a review" thread? She writes terrific reviews.


I think it might be a good idea. Or at least have a sticky with suggest questions to answer in your review. Some people (me included) sit down to write something and we go completely blank with no clue where to start. Lead questions to choose from a list may be helpful to get people uncomfortable with writing a place to start.

ie: How did the book make you feel? 
was it a page turner? did you forget everything else around you because you couldn't put it down...

etc.. 
I know for me it helps get me started then I'm fine from there. I may not write answers to those specific questions but it gives me ideas what to add to the review.

My 3 cents again..

theresam


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Wasn't meant to be harsh at all Jeff.


Okay. Everybody that thinks Linda was being harsh, raise your hand. Come on. Up with your hands. Nobody?

Hmm. Well, Linda. I guess you weren't.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

I think a "how-to/ideas" post would be useful. But I just want to emphasize that there really is a difference between a "formal review" (like a book might receive from web sites that are devoted to book reviews) and an "informal" reader review. There is a place for both, but I don't want anyone to think that there's a right/wrong way to do reader review - the important thing is to think about leaving a word or two (or more!) to let other potential buyers know what you think. 

Rah!
Mike


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> I think a "how-to/ideas" post would be useful. But I just want to emphasize that there really is a difference between a "formal review" (like a book might receive from web sites that are devoted to book reviews) and an "informal" reader review. There is a place for both, but I don't want anyone to think that there's a right/wrong way to do reader review - the important thing is to think about leaving a word or two (or more!) to let other potential buyers know what you think.


I think I'll keep my great ideas to myself in the future.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Jeff I think this post was uncalled for. As I said Kindleboards allows us to express our opinions freely and that is all I did. You had an idea, I had a suggestion on how to present it to other members. I stated I wasn't interested but I am sure others are.
> 
> We won't agree on everything all the time. Mike stated he liked your idea but explained the difference in a professional and layman's review. I think we both are supportive of your idea so I don't understand where you are coming from.


I was joking, Linda. Read what I said again in that light please. My little game with the hand raising was intended to accept your explanation and ease the tension. I'm not passionate about the idea of having a "How To" class it just seemed like a good idea at the time. What you guys do here is none of my business.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, I read all of the above in good nature. Thanks, Jeff.


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I was joking, Linda. Read what I said again in that light please. My little game with the hand raising was intended to accept your explanation and ease the tension. I'm not passionate about the idea of having a "How To" class it just seemed like a good idea at the time. What you guys do here is none of my business.


OK we are good  I think it is a good idea and my reason for suggesting a poll. Glad you are still my friend.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I could definitely use a primer on how to write a review.

It's the same way I review wine. You can say chocolate and coffee and raspberries, all I know is I liked it or I didn't.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> OK we are good  I think it is a good idea and my reason for suggesting a poll. Glad you are still my friend.


Of course, I'm still your friend.

Unfortunately I have a dry sense of humor and people often mistake my attempt to be funny as sarcastic. I keep forgetting to put those silly smiley things after what I say. Drat. <Smiley Thing>


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Of course, I'm still your friend.
> 
> Unfortunately I have a dry sense of humor and people often mistake my attempt to be funny as sarcastic. I keep forgetting to put those silly smiley things after what I say. Drat. <Smiley Thing>


LOL  Well off to bed for this old broad, I am tired and 5 am will be here too soon!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> LOL  Well off to bed for this old broad, I am tired and 5 am will be here too soon!


Good night, Linda. <Not saying anything about bedbugs>


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Unfortunately I have a dry sense of humor and people often mistake my attempt to be funny as sarcastic. I keep forgetting to put those silly smiley things after what I say. Drat. <Smiley Thing>


Unfortunately, that's the downside of any sort of "typed" communication - all the body language and so on is absent. The little smiley thingies help, but it's not the same as everybody sitting around the table and hooting and hollering while enjoying some BBQ'd "free-range chicken" and Al's beer!


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> I think a "how-to/ideas" post would be useful. But I just want to emphasize that there really is a difference between a "formal review" (like a book might receive from web sites that are devoted to book reviews) and an "informal" reader review.
> Rah!
> Mike


Way back when, I wrote reviews in grad school. You need a thick skin when you're reviewed there. We routinely tore each other apart. In the long run it improved our work, and sometimes our egos (sometimes not).

Now I write reviews for one of those websites devoted to book reviews that you mentioned (PODBRAM). I'm one of five, and it's a good team. We are polite, diplomatic, and honest. If a book has shortcomings we feel obligated to mention them, but we spend most of our time on the pluses. I've yet to hear a reviewed author gripe that he or she was treated unfairly.

A short review at Amazon is yet a different critter (though I have posted some of my PODBRAM reviews there). Typical ones are short, many are done on the spur of the moment, without a draft, and informal. Writing style is not terribly important; informative content, with reasons for one's opinion, is. Some of the best reviews are short, only several lines (Linda). There are few rules, as far as I can tell, beyond not saying just "It was good. I liked it alot."

Anyone who reads a whole book and then goes to the trouble to formulate his or her thoughts can write a review that authors and potential readers will find of value. That said, here's my rule of thumb: don't worry about it!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

It has a good beat and you can dance to it.

HINT: (That would be funny to anyone my age.)


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I took some time out to write some Christmas cards wishing peace on earth, good will to all.  Glad to find there's good will to all here in the Reader Reviews thread!  Glad I didn't have to throw any yellow cards!

I think we could have a poll about a "how to do a review" thread; but maybe we should just start the thread!  Anyone?  Actually, since we already have this topic, it would fit in right here!

As for making it sticky, I'm trying to figure a way to have fewer stickies but still make some important threads accessible to members.  I'm thinking I could have a Book Corner FAQ sticky, with links within it to things like "Book Club Guidelines" "How to Write a Review"  "Recommendations for November 2008" and other posts that we think should be noted or even real questions and answers as we think of them.  Then we could eliminate some stickies.  Whaddya think?

Betsy


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Whaddya think?


I think you're the best, Betsy. <Really Big Smiley Thingy>


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2008)

Wow, I guess I missed this thread yesterday. Thank you again Jeff for your complements. That said, I really don't think I am the one to "teach" a how-to write reviews thread. The review Jeff saw here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,287.0.html was written in the immediate afterglow of finishing the book. The book itself inspired the review. I guess it goes back to the advice given earlier: "Write what you feel about the book." I was very careful about giving away details of the story though.

If my review had any other redeeming qualities, I learned most of those from hours and hours of proofreading reviews written by Jim. He is the actual writer in this household.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I took some time out to write some Christmas cards wishing peace on earth, good will to all. Glad to find there's good will to all here in the Reader Reviews thread! Glad I didn't have to throw any yellow cards!
> 
> I think we could have a poll about a "how to do a review" thread; but maybe we should just start the thread! Anyone? Actually, since we already have this topic, it would fit in right here!
> 
> ...


Betsy -

Agree! I think it would be great to have (thanks, Jeff!). And maybe a sub-board for FAQS/stickies and such to organize them? I would probably sticky them in the main thread for a while, then move them into the "sticky wicket" for future reference... 

Rah!
Mike


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Good night, Linda. <Not saying anything about bedbugs>


LOL Jeff!


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Betsy I think that is a great idea! Do I have do agree with Jeff though??


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Linda Cannon-Mott said:


> Betsy I think that is a great idea! Do I have do agree with Jeff though??


Ah. My pound of flesh at last. 

Oh, while on the subject: Thank you very much "FearNot" for the Amazon review of The Treasure of La Malinche. Your check is in the mail. <Insert Smiley Thingy Here>


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Ah. My pound of flesh at last.


Okay, where's the free-range chicken and the beer...


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Okay, where's the free-range chicken and the beer...


In the mail?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I think you're the best, Betsy. <Really Big Smiley Thingy>


Does that mean you're kidding when you say that?

<Even Bigger Smiley Thingy>

Betsy


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Does that mean you're kidding when you say that?
> 
> <Even Bigger Smiley Thingy>
> 
> Betsy


HELP!


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

Jeff said:


> HELP!


LOL! I have that problem to. I have a sense of humor that some people just dont get until they get used to it and then they think its funny but it can cause misunderstandings at times. I feel sorry for you but on the other hand its good to find out im not alone!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Lizzy said:


> LOL! I have that problem to. I have a sense of humor that some people just dont get until they get used to it and then they think its funny but it can cause misunderstandings at times. I feel sorry for you but on the other hand its good to find out im not alone!


Yeah but I never learn. I just did it again on another thread. Where's that kicking himself smiley?


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Yeah but I never learn. I just did it again on another thread. Where's that kicking himself smiley?


Will this work Jeff?


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Angela said:


> Will this work Jeff?


LOL! That's a good one!


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2008)

LuckyRainbow said:


> If my review had any other redeeming qualities, I learned most of those from hours and hours of proofreading reviews written by Jim. He is the actual writer in this household.


Awww.... thanks, darling. 

Yes, I used to review computer adventure games professionally. And it really does call for a different style(s) than casual discussion of a topic. But I'm not sure it's a skill that can be readily "taught."


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I'm not sure it's a skill that can be readily "taught."


OIf you had to, could you come up with a loist of dos and don'ts?

EDIT: Note to self: Always prufe reed before posting.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2008)

Jeff said:


> *Of* you had to, could you come up with a *lost* of dos and donts?


Possibly. #1 would probably be something like "don't hit the 'o' key when you really want to hit the 'i' key."


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks. You're a pronce.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2008)

Seriously, though, I think the most important aspect of writing actual reviews (as opposed to the little one-paragraph jobbies which comprise most of Amazon's reader "reviews") is to have a structure for your review in mind before you ever write the first word.  Many critics rough out an outline first.  I didn't usually go that far (though I sometimes did), but I always at least had such an outline in my head.  This keeps you from meandering, talking in circles, etc.

Given the nature of the reviews I was writing, I could always fall back on a standard structure if I wasn't feeling particularly creative.  "First I'll talk about the game's story, then the controls, then the graphics, etc."  I tried very hard to avoid falling into using this pattern much, as it makes all reviews seem the same and bores the readers.  But it's better than no structure at all.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Would it help if I provided examples?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

If you can resist raking me with your acerbic humor, I’d really like to discuss this. I’m a pretty fair writer but I’m just awful at writing book reviews.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Jeff said:


> If you can resist raking me with your acerbic humor, I'd really like to discuss this. I'm a pretty fair writer but I'm just awful at writing book reviews.


I can try to resist, but I have awfully long acerbiclaws. I frequently wound when I don't mean to. 

I don't have any book reviews to throw out. I shot my wad in my "Favorite Novels" thread. But I have some movie reviews I'm pretty proud of, if you think it would help the cause.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Would it help if I provided examples?


Sure! Hey, we can all learn from each other. And I wouldn't mind having some good ideas on how to write reviews myself. I've written a few on Amazon (and should do more), and while I think they weren't bad, I'm always interested in improvement. Bring 'em on!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I can try to resist, but I have awfully long acerbiclaws. I frequently wound when I don't mean to.
> 
> I don't have any book reviews to throw out. I shot my wad in my "Favorite Novels" thread. But I have some movie reviews I'm pretty proud of, if you think it would help the cause.


It might but I know a good review when I read it; I can't seem to figure out how it's done.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Sure! Hey, we can all learn from each other. And I wouldn't mind having some good ideas on how to write reviews myself. I've written a few on Amazon (and should do more), and while I think they weren't bad, I'm always interested in improvement. Bring 'em on!


Hey, you wrote a novel. I'm the guy who tears apart your 10,000 word labor of love in 500 words of cleverness.

Are you sure?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I’m trying to write a review now. It sounds like I’m lecturing the author while trying to convince the reader that the book is really worth reading. Junk.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Hey, you wrote a novel. I'm the guy who tears apart your 10,000 word labor of love in 500 words of cleverness.
> 
> Are you sure?


*10,000* words? HAHAHAHAA! Listen, brother, if you want to tear apart my particular labor of love







, you're gonna have to work at it (even if you still boil it down to 500 "words of cleverness"): it's 325,000 words!

There's a reason why it's called an "epic" novel (although it's a very fast read, according to what I've heard from readers). See you in the book club in February - LOL!!


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=288857&view=public

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=254542&view=public

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=237490&view=public

Just a few examples.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I'm trying to write a review now. It sounds like I'm lecturing the author while trying to convince the reader that the book is really worth reading. Junk.


That's one aspect that I guess I take a dual approach to. If I know the author, I try to give an honest review of the book, but if there are specific recommendations I have for improvements (or to point out bloopers, which are inevitable) I'll send those off-line. And if I really didn't like the book, I generally won't do a review - I know how much goes into it, and even if it wasn't good, I really hate doing that.

If it's a mainstream author (and the book already has a bunch of reviews), I figure my "vote" is probably as important as anything else I might say. If I do write something significant I try to be honest, but I'm more likely to give a less-than-three-star review if the book was bad: if the book's from a traditional publisher, it had the benefits of professional editing, marketing, and so on (and screening by someone to see if the book was good enough to market in the first place). And if it was stinky after that, well...

So, maybe that's a double-standard, but there it is!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=254542&view=public


Oh man. You panned Heaven's Gate? That's the best bad movie I've every seen.

On a more serious note, thanks.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Those who can... do
Those who can't do... teach
Those who can't teach... teach gym
Those who can't teach gym... criticize


I'm comfortable and happy in my useless niche.


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## BrassMan (Dec 8, 2008)

I agree with all that, KW. So far this year I have reviewed 14 books for PODBRAM, and I'm only one of five reviewers. I think we're all good, and a couple are truly excellent. All have different styles and each reviewer takes a slightly different tack. Yet they're all mannerly, informative, yet honest. If anyone wants to browse, they're at http://www.iuniversebookreviews.blogspot.com/. There's a list of books reviewed down the left margin, or you could just click the archives, also on the left, for 2008, for example.

I'd hate like h..l to have to write a how-to on stuff like this. It's like riding a bicycle. Once you get the hang of it (after a little practice) it becomes easier.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Can you see my "structure" point?  Or (hopefully) is it transparent?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I'm comfortable and happy in my useless niche.


As usual, I disagree with you vociferously. Today with so many choices, reviewers are a crucial part of the process. And you were wrong about Heaven's Gate. No wait. Did I already say that?


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

BrassMan said:


> I'd hate like h..l to have to write a how-to on stuff like this. It's like riding a bicycle. Once you get the hang of it (after a little practice) it becomes easier.


It doesn't.

Each one (if you do it well) is like zipping off a little short story based on the work you're reviewing.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Jeff said:


> As usual, I disagree with you vociferously. Today with so many choices, reviewers are a crucial part of the process. And you were wrong about Heaven's Gate. No wait. Did I already say that?


I have more.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=235457&view=public

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=235071&view=public

I can keep going.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Oddly enough, I haven't seen any of those.  

But yes, very good review samples! I think the only thing that bothers me about some reviewers (and I'm *not* picking on you, Jim!!) is that some of them seem to have difficulty matching their commentary to how much they liked the book (it's usually not a problem if they *didn't* like it!). Some reviewers seem to get in the habit of really focusing on the negative aspects of things, even if they clearly really liked it (book, movie, tree-picker thingy, etc.), rather than trying to explain why they really liked it, while mentioning the things they didn't like so much.

Good reviewers (IMHO), obviously don't do that. 

Does that make any sense? It's getting late, and it's way past my bedtimezzzzzzzzzz....


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I can keep going.


LR was right. Your reviews are very good - but I'm not finding the answers to my questions in them.

Let me read these again and think about it a while longer.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Oddly enough, I haven't seen any of those.
> 
> But yes, very good review samples! I think the only thing that bothers me about some reviewers (and I'm *not* picking on you, Jim!!) is that some of them seem to have difficulty matching their commentary to how much they liked the book (it's usually not a problem if they *didn't* like it!). Some reviewers seem to get in the habit of really focusing on the negative aspects of things, even if they clearly really liked it (book, movie, tree-picker thingy, etc.), rather than trying to explain why they really liked it, while mentioning the things they didn't like so much.
> 
> ...


I understand and you are absolutely right. There is a crop of critics (or is it called a "murder"?) who believe that they aren't doing their job properly if they don't find _some_ fault on which they can focus. After all, if they don't find a fault, they aren't justifying their salary.

Of course, I've found a fault in every review I've posted, so I guess I'm "one of them."


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Jeff said:


> LR was right. Your reviews are very good - but I'm not finding the answers to my questions in them.
> 
> Let me read these again and think about it a while longer.
> 
> ...


I tolja, criticism isn't something you can just write a "Do and Don't" list for. If it were that easy, Roger Ebert wouldn't have a Pulitzer.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Jeff said:


> LR was right. Your reviews are very good - but I'm not finding the answers to my questions in them.
> 
> Let me read these again and think about it a while longer.
> 
> ...


There are several more I can post. If you promise to stop holding my loathing for Heaven's Gate against me.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> There are several more I can post. If you promise to stop holding my loathing for Heaven's Gate against me.


I'm an expert at holding grudges, but I'll bet there are a lot of people who'd like to read more of your reviews. I might just take a peak too.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=206711&view=public

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=218387&view=public

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?journalid=202387&entryid=200639&view=public


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

Can I tell you exactly _how_ I do it? No.

Can I make somebody a better writer, definitely not.

Can I make someone a better critic? I can try, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

^^^ LR disagrees. She says I _can_ make someone a better writer.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/showpost.php?p=7180638&postcount=63

This is the only version of this review still existent in the Interwebs.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

http://www.mysterymanor.net/reviewanachronox.htm


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## Kilgore Trout (Dec 28, 2008)

Pardon me while I whip this out. If you want to really learn more than you may ever want to know about book reviews and the review process, get in the habit of visiting PODBRAM. I founded the site in July 2006, after launching my fourth book, _Timeline of America_. Some of the leading reviewers at PODBRAM are your familiar Al Past (the _Distant Cousin_ series) and Dianne Salerni (_High Spirits_). PODBRAM is also a good place to track reviews of books you may not otherwise have encountered. We write reviews for other sites, too, and often these are totally different from the reviews we write for PODBRAM. You can click the links from PODBRAM to other reviews of individual books, as well as to other review sites.

There are several different types of book reviews prevalent in our new electronic age. The type I would most like to see disappear are the high-volume, paid-reviews-for-hire sites. You may have no idea how many of the reviews at Amazon are of this type, but I do, and it's a lot! The authors impersonating reviewers of their own books is a type mentioned elsewhere in this thread. That leaves three types: the quick little reader reviews at Amazon, the quantity of established, print reviewers that is diminishing daily, and the legitimate, free, online book review sites such as PODBRAM. Thank you for your time.


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