# "Showrooming"



## Zorrosuncle (Nov 11, 2008)

Greetings --

Recently, Target decided to terminate their relationship with Amazon regarding Kindle Fire, because they were tired of "showrooming".  They claimed customers came to Target to merely "view" the product and then would shop elsewhere for a better price.  Frankly, being that the price is pretty well set,  I find it hard to believe that they are losing a customer based on price. 

I for one, would be inclined to view the product at Target and still purchase it from Amazon, directly, for the same price.  The reason is that I have always had a good shopping experience with Amazon, and they treat me well.  Conversely, I don't know that much about Target that I would want to part from purchasing at Amazon.

Perhaps Target has other problems, which result in questions.  I believe that Amazon is a well-managed company that believes in top service and support for their customers.

ZU


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

If you're talking about the Fire specifically, then yes, there isn't a lot of price difference normally (although right now there are some deals for getting a gift card with purchase out there). 

But what Target is talking about is all merchandise, and I've done that myself - I've seen things at Target (or other stores) and used my phone to check for the Amazon price while I'm there in the store - especially bigger-ticket kids' toys.  I've done the same for books at Barnes & Noble.


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## Okkoto86 (Oct 29, 2010)

I haven't read that yet, all I've seen is that Target is possibly taking the Kindle out of the stores but haven't given that specific a reason if they are.  Do you have a source article for this?

If it is true I call BS.  As I have said before I would have bought my Kindle there had they ever bothered to actually have the thing in stock.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Just ask the Target person, "If it breaks within the warrantee period will they fix or, if necessary, replace it for free or will I have to send it off somewhere else? If  you have to send it somewhere else, what incentive does the buyer have to NOT get it elsewhere? Just sayin'


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Amazon honors the warranty on Kindles no matter where they are purchased.

Some people like to see and touch an item and also be able to return it physically instead of mailing it off.

I am guessing, though, that if Target is going to stop selling Kindles, it's because not enough people are buying them from Target to justify the floor space. It's all about how much revenue is generated by that spot.

We've got a thread going about the Target/Kindle reports...

Betsy


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## krm0789 (Dec 21, 2010)

Okkoto86 said:


> I haven't read that yet, all I've seen is that Target is possibly taking the Kindle out of the stores but haven't given that specific a reason if they are. Do you have a source article for this?
> 
> If it is true I call BS. *As I have said before I would have bought my Kindle there had they ever bothered to actually have the thing in stock.*


Agreed. I'm super-impatient and if it were in stock, I'd have purchased my e-ink Kindle directly from Target. But none of the Targets in my area ever seem to have them in stock. So either they're consistently selling like hotcakes, or their inventory sucks.


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## StephanieJ (Nov 11, 2010)

I admit it, I did it.  Wanted to make sure I'd like a Kindle Touch.  Soooooooo off to Target we went to check them out.  But it's not just Kindles, it's anything expensive.  I do feel for the B&M stores that are losing business but you do what you have to do moneywise.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Okkoto86 said:


> I haven't read that yet, all I've seen is that Target is possibly taking the Kindle out of the stores but haven't given that specific a reason if they are. Do you have a source article for this?
> 
> If it is true I call BS. As I have said before I would have bought my Kindle there had they ever bothered to actually have the thing in stock.


Same here - haven't read a reason.

A lot of Target stores are supposed to be getting Apple Stores in a Store - another "rumor" is that they, Apple, put pressure on them. I don't think we know yet unless something popped up during my algebra class on factoring polynomials.

yes boys and girls, you can tell your kids they need to know this info so when they go back to school at 43 they can pass algebra again!


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

I too would like to see a source on this.

If it is indeed true, then it would be a really bizarre attitude for a retailer to take.

The spend all of their advertising budget trying to get you INTO the store -- they run loss leaders to get you INTO the store -- they run various specials to get you INTO the store -- they have sales to get you INTO their stores -- they want you INSIDE their stores -- people who don't come in the stores don't buy things, people they get INTO the stores buy things.

To profess that the reasons they are going to stop carrying an item is because it brings people INTO their stores -- even if they don't buy that item --- would be a pretty strange (and counter-productive) thing to do.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's a source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/business/after-warning-amazon-about-sales-tactics-target-will-stop-selling-kindles.html

"Like other big retailers, Target has been trying to figure out how to stop Amazon shoppers from visiting Target stores to check out products, and then buy them online from Amazon. It is a practice encouraged by Amazon; over the Christmas holiday, for example, the company offered a promotion on its Price Check app that gave shoppers 5 percent off any item scanned at a store.

Now that retailers like Target are aware of this so-called showrooming, carrying Amazon's Kindle is a little "like Starbucks selling Dunkin' Donuts gift certificates," said Michael Norris, a senior analyst for Simba Information.

Target warned in January that it wouldn't sit back.

"What we aren't willing to do is let online-only retailers use our brick-and-mortar stores as a showroom for their products and undercut our prices," Target executives wrote in a letter to vendors, asking them to think of new pricing and inventory strategies, according to a note that Deborah Weinswig, a Citi analyst, sent to clients.

A Target spokeswoman, Molly Snyder, confirmed that the retailer had sent the letter."


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

I think that is the excuse and Apple is the reason and Target is joining in in targetting Amazon.

And I also read that Microsoft is getting some connection to BN and the Nook.

OK.. found a link.. I had read it in a hard copy newspaper.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/9239570/Microsofts-Nook-deal-pits-it-against-Amazon-and-Apple.html

Though it was launched in 2009, many Britons might not have heard of Barnes & Noble's Nook ereader until this week when Microsoft invested $300 million for a 17.6 per cent stake in the business . . .

and

Microsoft's investment values the Nook business at $1.7 billion - more than the parent company itself - and hints at big plans for both companies.

"It's a cyclone of converging storylines," said James McQuivey, an analyst with Forrester. He said that with Apple and Amazon "dominating in their respective domains" companies like Microsoft and Barnes and Noble are having to combine their strengths to compete.

And more.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

There's also this thread in Let's Talk Kindle:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,112991.0.html

Betsy


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## luvmykindle3 (Dec 5, 2010)

Meemo said:


> Here's a source:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/business/after-warning-amazon-about-sales-tactics-target-will-stop-selling-kindles.html
> 
> ...


Aren't the kindles the same price (new) on amazon as in Target? Why would a person go in the store and touch/see the kindle and not go ahead and buy it? Why go home and order? Why not get it right then? Interesting.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

They aren't just talking about Kindles. They're talking about any merchandise that Target carries that Amazon might also carry. Toys, cookware, electronics, anything. That's why the article says "It is a practice encouraged by Amazon; over the Christmas holiday, for example, the company offered a promotion on its Price Check app that gave shoppers 5 percent off any item scanned at a store." So if I'd scanned a V-Tech Reader for the grandkids at Target with the Price Check app at Target, then bought it from Amazon, I'd have gotten a 5% discount on it. I didn't know about that promotion, but as I've said, I'd checked other prices. I don't actually have their Price Check app, probably why I didn't know about the promotion , I just go on Amazon's shopping app and check prices.

As far as Kindles go, lots of folks would order from Amazon because of sales tax, if they're in a state where Amazon doesn't (yet) collect sales tax. And I actually told a woman looking at the Fire at Target that if she bought from Amazon she'd have 30 days to give it a good test - actually it was longer than that because she was Christmas shopping and I told her she'd have until the end of January. Thought I might get escorted out of Target that day....


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## Cyanide5000 (Aug 30, 2010)

I dont see why they wouldnt be happy with the Kindle pushing people thru their doors! Ok so people might come in to browse the kindle, but then maby they would buy something else? I dont think they were on the losing end of the deal at all. I think it probably more to do with company politics, and they are using this as a pretty lame excuse.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Meemo said:


> And I actually told a woman looking at the Fire at Target that if she bought from Amazon she'd have 30 days to give it a good test - actually it was longer than that because she was Christmas shopping and I told her she'd have until the end of January. Thought I might get escorted out of Target that day....


But when I bought my kindle at Target I had 90 days to try it out - a wayyyy better deal than Amazon, which would have included shipping hassles.

I can't remember if they have changed that return period - but Target trumped Amazon in that case!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Cyanide5000 said:


> I dont see why they wouldnt be happy with the Kindle pushing people thru their doors! Ok so people might come in to browse the kindle, but then maby they would buy something else? I dont think they were on the losing end of the deal at all. I think it probably more to do with company politics, and they are using this as a pretty lame excuse.


I really think it's a matter of revenue. Is the square footage that the Kindle display takes up generating as much revenue as other areas? As much as their goal? If, as is rumored, they're going to have an Apple boutique instead, my guess is that they anticipate that it will generate more revenue per square foot. And I would believe that it would. Much as I love my Kindles, I suspect Apple would be more profitable (depending on the deal of course). More different products attractive to a larger demographic.

Betsy


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

TraceyC/FL said:


> But when I bought my kindle at Target I had 90 days to try it out - a wayyyy better deal than Amazon, which would have included shipping hassles.
> 
> I can't remember if they have changed that return period - but Target trumped Amazon in that case!


Looking at the website, it's 45 days for some electronics including eReaders & tablets. Now that's for purchases from Target.com - don't know if it's different from in-store purchases. It also says "new and unused condition". Seems like I've heard people say that once they'd opened their Kindles they couldn't return to Target, but I may be wrong on that. It's been a while.

And for some folks, like me, the shipping hassle is less than the return-to-Target hassle. I can print out Amazon's return label, slap it on the box, and drive 5 minutes to the UPS store. We've got two Targets in the area, but both are a good 30-minute drive from me (and the preferred one includes a toll bridge). So that's one of those situational things.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I really think it's a matter of revenue. Is the square footage that the Kindle display takes up generating as much revenue as other areas? As much as their goal? If, as is rumored, they're going to have an Apple boutique instead, my guess is that they anticipate that it will generate more revenue per square foot. And I would believe that it would. Much as I love my Kindles, I suspect Apple would be more profitable (depending on the deal of course). More different products attractive to a larger demographic.
> 
> Betsy


I agree - I do think it's also because of the showrooming thing (which as I said isn't just about Kindles, it's about any merchandise that's available at both Target & Amazon). But if the Kindles were generating enough revenue for Target, they'd keep them. Apparently they aren't. And I think if Apple were behind it, as someone suggested, we'd see the same thing happening at Best Buy and Walmart and any other outlets where both Apple and Kindles were available. So far, that hasn't happened - and I don't think Apple really sees Amazon as that type of competitor. At least not yet.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Meemo said:


> Looking at the website, it's 45 days for some electronics including eReaders & tablets. Now that's for purchases from Target.com - don't know if it's different from in-store purchases. It also says "new and unused condition". Seems like I've heard people say that once they'd opened their Kindles they couldn't return to Target, but I may be wrong on that. It's been a while.


I had no issues returning an open and used kindle to Target in store. I think there was a change to the in-store policy awhile back - but I wouldn't begin to know where to look to find it!



> And for some folks, like me, the shipping hassle is less than the return-to-Target hassle. I can print out Amazon's return label, slap it on the box, and drive 5 minutes to the UPS store. We've got two Targets in the area, but both are a good 30-minute drive from me (and the preferred one includes a toll bridge). So that's one of those situational things.


And see, my Target is 2 miles away, always has good parking and good hours. The UPS store... well, I had a bad experience there and they are both more than 10 minutes away thru icky road construction. The UPS depot is about the same - but they have crappy hours. On the other hand, it would be easiest to just call my UPS guy and meet him in town and hand it to him. He'd curse me if I made him come here to pick something up. He hates my driveway 

So i've bought & returned 1 eInk at Target, bought another at Christmas and ordered 1 from Amazon. All were fine/easy experiences.

But I have to say, that it would take A LOT for me personally to direct someone to buy something elsewhere when I was in a store. Mainly because i've been that retail associate on the receiving end and if we don't shop our retail - the stores will close. I like not having to drive an hour to go to the stores we have now!


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

TraceyC/FL said:


> I had no issues returning an open and used kindle to Target in store. I think there was a change to the in-store policy awhile back - but I wouldn't begin to know where to look to find it!
> And see, my Target is 2 miles away, always has good parking and good hours. The UPS store... well, I had a bad experience there and they are both more than 10 minutes away thru icky road construction. The UPS depot is about the same - but they have crappy hours. On the other hand, it would be easiest to just call my UPS guy and meet him in town and hand it to him. He'd curse me if I made him come here to pick something up. He hates my driveway
> 
> So i've bought & returned 1 eInk at Target, bought another at Christmas and ordered 1 from Amazon. All were fine/easy experiences.
> ...


I understand - like I said - which return method is preferable is totally situational. I've had to return a couple of Kindles that had broken screens & was glad I could just drop them off. And for that reason if I were going to buy locally, for return purposes I'd probably buy from Walmart, which is right by our UPS store, rather than at Target.

And yeah, I wasn't really thinking when I told that customer about the Amazon policy  we'd had a long discussion about the Nook tablets vs the Fire, and since I had both I was giving her my pros & cons for both. She was still looking, not ready to buy yet - and in the process of the discussion I remembered and mentioned that we were in Amazon's Christmas return period, so if she got a Fire (for her daughter) from Amazon directly she'd have until the end of January to decide whether she'd rather have something with more memory (one of the big advantages of the Nook tablets being the expandable memory). After I said it I kind of remembered where I was and felt like I should've apologized to the electronics sales guy. I'm just so accustomed to the discussions here and on a couple of other forums, I kinda got in that mode.


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## Zorrosuncle (Nov 11, 2008)

Cyanide5000 said:


> I dont see why they wouldnt be happy with the Kindle pushing people thru their doors! Ok so people might come in to browse the kindle, but then maby they would buy something else? I dont think they were on the losing end of the deal at all. I think it probably more to do with company politics, and they are using this as a pretty lame excuse.


I have to agree; I am the OP for this thread. If Target brings me into the store to look at a Kindle, even if I buy it from Amazon, the chances are extremely high that as long as I am pohysicallky in Targets, I will be purchasing other merchandise. Target should realize that this is the new way of the times, and should adapt accordingly, by sweetening their price with additional embellishments -- perhaps an accessory package. This new way of shopping is not going to go away, and it is here to stay.

ZU


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Zorrosuncle said:


> I have to agree; I am the OP for this thread. If Target brings me into the store to look at a Kindle, even if I buy it from Amazon, the chances are extremely high that as long as I am pohysicallky in Targets, I will be purchasing other merchandise. Target should realize that this is the new way of the times, and should adapt accordingly, by sweetening their price with additional embellishments -- perhaps an accessory package. This new way of shopping is not going to go away, and it is here to stay.
> 
> ZU


They're a business - if they thought the profits on Kindles outweighed what their losses on "showrooming", they'd stick with selling the Kindles. Now, whether they're not selling enough Kindles because they aren't stocking enough, or if they're selling like hotcakes but Amazon isn't sending them as many as they need, who knows? (I've noticed a shortage of Kindles at our local Targets just like some others have.)

But if you're in Target and looking at widgets after you check out the Kindle, and you whip out your smartphone to see what Amazon's price on widgets is and walk out without buying because Amazon is cheaper, now Target's lost more than just the Kindle sale, and that's Target's point. Frankly I doubt too many people are walking in to Target _just_ to check out the Kindles these days anyway - there are too many other places to see them. It was probably a good thing for Target back when Target was the first and only B&M store to carry Kindles, but now, apparently....not so much.

And this week's Sunday Target flyer did advertise a "sweetener" - buy a $99 Touch and get a $20 gift card, or buy a $149 Touch and get a $40 gift card.


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## Hadou (Jun 1, 2011)

I do a little "showrooming" from time to time.  But, it's more to see user reviews first.  If the price is THAT much better online, I'll order it instead of buying it in-store.


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## dori chatelain (Dec 31, 2011)

I do remember somebody saying a few months ago that they had bought a kindle from target and had some problems with it and that they called kindle customer service on amazon and they wouldn't do anything to help this person. Customer Service said they needed to take the kindle back to target. I am wondering if this is the reason people are staying away from target for buying kindles. 

I know I went to Walmart one day to get a amazon gift card. they sell the kindles so I thought they would have the gift cards. WRONG!!!!! I couldn't believe it. I had to go all the way across town to go to another store to get a gift card. 

I don't think I would trust buying any of the kindles from anywhere than amazon.


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## docmama28 (Mar 6, 2010)

I actually am guilty of "showrooming" this morning;  I went to Target to look at iphone docking stations/radios and used my handy-dandy scanner to compare prices on Amazon.  Turns out the one I chose was $20 cheaper on Amazon, shipped for free, and for an extra $4.99 was gift-wrapped (card and all).  My mother-in-law will have her mother's day gift by Friday!  I had to pat myself on the shoulder for that one!!


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