# To read in sun or have lighter screen? - Analysis of two Kindles (pic heavy)



## starryskyz (Nov 7, 2008)

Hi,

My first beloved K2 had faded text when I was reading in the sun, and I got my replacement K2 today. Here are some side by side comparisons. The old K2 has the Orient skin, while the new K2 is naked

Comparisons in direct sunlight outdoors:

Scenario 1








Shows the two kindles on the same page from the user guide, you can see how the text on the old K2 is much lighter and faded.









Closeup of old K2 for scenario 1









Closeup of new K2 for scenario 1

Scenario 2








Another page from Kindle guide









Closeup of old K2 for scenario 2









Closeup of new K2 for scenario 2

Scenario 3








Edgar Allan Poe screen saver









Closeup of old K2 for scenario 3 - see the ghosting of stripes across Egar's jacket?









Closeup of new K2 for scenario 3

Scenario 4








Another page from Kindle guide, shows major fading on old K2

Comparisons indoors with ambient lighting

Scenario 5








You can see that the text is darker even indoors for K2, but the screen background is darker as well.

Scenario 6








Different page from the same book

Comparisons indoors with direct lighting

Scenario 7









Scenario 8








It's not showing up very well here, but the new K2 is slightly more brown and a little darker.

So there you have it...although I'm happy that my new K2 does not have fading issue and has darker text, the slightly darker background is taking some getting used to. I've been so used to the background of my old K2.

So now I can either keep my old K2, keep the new K2, or ask for a third K2. I don't want to look a gift horse in its mouth, so am thinking of just keeping the new K2 and learn to live with the darker screen.

For all K2 owners out there, is the slightly darker background for the new K2 normal? Perhaps that's what it should look like?


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## Micdiddy (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm not a K2 owner but the second one you got looks pretty good, asking for a third one would seem kind of gratuitous and there' no gaurantee it will be any better. Keep the second one and thank Amazon for their amazing customer service.


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## starryskyz (Nov 7, 2008)

Yeah, in fact I'm moving my skin from the old K2 to the new K2 now.  Asking for another is a third option I didn't want to do because there were no guarantees I would not get a worst one, and yes, it did feel gratuitous.  I'll just have to learn to live with the darker screen.  The pics don't show the difference, but in person it's quite noticeable.  I just wanted to see if this is normal for other K2s out there.


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## vlapinta (Jan 11, 2009)

Mine looks just like the second one.

Vicki


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## KindleKid (Feb 11, 2009)

wow, you can really see the difference when they are side by side like that!


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Huh... I'm going to have to try mine in the sun again. I thought that when people said it faded, it faded almost totally, not just a little bit. I thought my text looked a little lighter in the sun but I thought it was just because the bright light revealed flaws that were always there - that the text isn't solid dark black, as everyone has been saying. But what also worries me is your photos of the screensaver - mine does have the significant ghosting of text on the screen saver as your old K2 shows. I don't really care what the screen saver looks like, but maybe this is evidence of a problem. 

I was thinking that I didn't want to request a new Kindle for the text being a little washed out, if all kindles are like that. But now I'm thinking mine might not be as good as it can get. Of course... now it's cloudy today, so I can't test it more....

Cathy


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## jeremy81 (Feb 27, 2009)

vermontcathy said:


> Huh... I'm going to have to try mine in the sun again. I thought that when people said it faded, it faded almost totally, not just a little bit. I thought my text looked a little lighter in the sun but I thought it was just because the bright light revealed flaws that were always there - that the text isn't solid dark black, as everyone has been saying. But what also worries me is your photos of the screensaver - mine does have the significant ghosting of text on the screen saver as your old K2 shows. I don't really care what the screen saver looks like, but maybe this is evidence of a problem.
> 
> I was thinking that I didn't want to request a new Kindle for the text being a little washed out, if all kindles are like that. But now I'm thinking mine might not be as good as it can get. Of course... now it's cloudy today, so I can't test it more....
> 
> Cathy


The one I had replaced almost totally fades.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for those photos - really interesting and I appreciate you taking the time to show us that. The type is definitely darker in your replacement K2, so that's good! 

I don't see much of a difference in the backgrounds between the two... is it possible that the backgrounds appear different because of the optical effect of the dark-colored skin around your old K2?

It would be interesting to see how the two backgrounds appear if you were to remove that skin from the original K2.


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## Harmakhet (Feb 12, 2009)

So I went out at lunch and read some in the sun (since it's the first sunny day in a week or so).  Didn't notice it fading of the text so much as I saw the ghosting on the screensaver when I put it to sleep in the sun.

Wondering if that's a sign of the same issues.  Will have to test it some more while the weather is nice.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Harmakhet said:


> So I went out at lunch and read some in the sun (since it's the first sunny day in a week or so). Didn't notice it fading of the text so much as I saw the ghosting on the screensaver when I put it to sleep in the sun.
> 
> Wondering if that's a sign of the same issues. Will have to test it some more while the weather is nice.


I ALWAYS have had ghosting on the screen saver. I can read words from the page I had been on...


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## Harmakhet (Feb 12, 2009)

vermontcathy said:


> I ALWAYS have had ghosting on the screen saver. I can read words from the page I had been on...


I've always had the opposite issue (seeing the screensaver text at the bottom when coming back from the screensaver) but never this way around until the sun test today. Hrm...I'll report back when I test it some more.

I doubt it's an issue but I will do an exhaustive check anyway.


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## kevindorsey (Mar 4, 2009)

That's definitely a noticeable diff.  I'm glad I never had to deal with this issue.


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## starryskyz (Nov 7, 2008)

I didn't post these 3 pics yesterday, but this was really noticeable for me as well wrt splotchiness




























Harvey - I took off the skin and the two backgorunds are slightly different. However, I LOVE the new K2 so it's a keeper  I wish I didn't have to waste a skin...tried to take it off my old K2 to reuse and it's now very tattered and stretched looking.


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## L.Canton (Jan 21, 2009)

To be perfectly honest, I noticed very little difference in the first few pictures, but the last 3 you posted I can definitely see what you meant; good call on getting it replaced.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

I'd be willing to bet the background difference you're seeing is the optical illusion Harvey mentioned.  When I block out the frame of the kindles in your pictures, they appear exactly the same color on my calibrated screen.  If there's any difference, I think you'll stop seeing it quickly enough when you move the skin to the new one & start using it exclusively.

Good to see the text differences with the sun fade side by side, that is a huge issue for those who've been affected!


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I for sure see differences in the text and also the backround. The new one is darker, more greenish looking. I see it pretty clear on my monitor. Blocking out the frame doesn't change that for me. But what really concerns me is the difference in the letters. The first one is barely readable, like washed out. No way could I read it like that. Since I am still saving up for my K2 I really hope I don't end up with one like that


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## jsutula (Feb 10, 2009)

With your new and old Kindle, can you please do a page turn in direct sunlight, but _with one half of the screen covered_?

To me this is a better way of determining what the problem looks like--see my pictures below. I'm still unsure whether it's worth sending back my Kindle 2 and getting another, but as you can see, the fading is very apparent at the smaller font sizes.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Is there uneven fading going from top to bottom on the rightish side of the screen? Or is that the way the light hit it.


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## Micdiddy (Nov 29, 2008)

Harvey said:


> Thanks for those photos - really interesting and I appreciate you taking the time to show us that. The type is definitely darker in your replacement K2, so that's good!
> 
> I don't see much of a difference in the backgrounds between the two... is it possible that the backgrounds appear different because of the optical effect of the dark-colored skin around your old K2?
> 
> It would be interesting to see how the two backgrounds appear if you were to remove that skin from the original K2.


Though it's obvious the text on the first one does fade and is enough of a problem to request a new one, Harvey might be on to something with why the second one's background looks darker. Compared to the white of the surround it should make the background look darker even if they are the same exact darkness.
Compare them both unskinned. Or if you already skinned the second one just keep it and adapt, will prob just take a few minutes.


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## starryskyz (Nov 7, 2008)

Micdiddy said:


> Though it's obvious the text on the first one does fade and is enough of a problem to request a new one, Harvey might be on to something with why the second one's background looks darker. Compared to the white of the surround it should make the background look darker even if they are the same exact darkness.
> Compare them both unskinned. Or if you already skinned the second one just keep it and adapt, will prob just take a few minutes.


Yeah, I took the skin off and the background was still a shade darker. It's very small difference in colour. Sorry I didn't take any more pics 

I actually packed up my old K2 already and it's on it's way back to Amazon.


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## patrisha w. (Oct 28, 2008)

Good pictures!
I got my replacement K2 today and took it out into the sun and flipped pages. This one does not fade..

patrisha


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## patrisha w. (Oct 28, 2008)

jeremy81 said:


> The one I had replaced almost totally fades.


And the more you flip the pages, the more it fades...

patrisha


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## ZomZom (Feb 17, 2009)

jsutula said:


> With your new and old Kindle, can you please do a page turn in direct sunlight, but _with one half of the screen covered_?
> 
> To me this is a better way of determining what the problem looks like--see my pictures below. I'm still unsure whether it's worth sending back my Kindle 2 and getting another, but as you can see, the fading is very apparent at the smaller font sizes.


That's brilliant, jsutula. Best method to compare/test.

Fortunately all of my outdoor Kindle reading has been spectacular. One of the best features of e-ink is that it is superior to LCD display technology when outdoors. This type of fading in sunlight is a serious flaw IMHO.


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## artsandhistoryfan (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm late responding to this thread, but I just read through it and was concerned because even the second Kindle 2 shouldn't have weaker looking basic text.

I have no idea how you suffered through the first one, as it's barely readable. With cameras, it's best to use a 'spot' meter option so you can focus and exposure on exactly the point of interest, sich as the screen and its text and background. I suspect your camera is focusing most for the screensaver sometimes or averaging between the white frame and the text on screen. Or there is a type of flash that's being used, which will wash out details on the screen, but it doesn't look quite like that.

But if this is what it looks like, I'd be calling for another replacement or giving up. The contrast shouldn't be as light as it is even in the 2nd one. EDIT: I finally realized you were just showing us text from the User's Guide and it -is- basic text... It looks like to me, but it may be the camera functioning that causes that.
If you hold up your Kindle to the computer monitor, does it really look the same contrast wise?

I put up some shots of the Kindle 2 in indoor conditions while out shopping or eating. What the photos show is pretty much what I see. And that includes a Kindle next to a Sony.

In bright light, the basic font is more gray than black but never looking particularly faded or fuzzy.
The Sony basic text (which is really small) is quite dark but when you look closely it's more like a dark brown.
Indoors, the Kindle 2 text is as dark as the Sony's.

Your 2nd looks gray also, to me, like the Amazon title at the top of the unit and the 'Next' and "Prev' bars, but they should be darker than those.

My weekend shots, taken with a cell phone, are at http://www.pbase.com/andrys/kindle2

I apologize that pbase.com is too often slow these days but it's easier for me to use it to show pics at a certain default size.

Are people reading actually feeling that the 2nd Kindle looks okay contrast-wise? It's much better than that first one but it still looks light to me (unless it's just the camera not quite getting the actual contrast).


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## DD (Nov 9, 2008)

I would keep the second one and put the Orient skin (or another dark skin) on it.  I've heard a dark skin makes a darker screen seem lighter.  Text looks good on the second one.


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## vg (Oct 28, 2008)

ZomZom said:


> That's brilliant, jsutula. Best method to compare/test.
> 
> Fortunately all of my outdoor Kindle reading has been spectacular. One of the best features of e-ink is that it is superior to LCD display technology when outdoors. This type of fading in sunlight is a serious flaw IMHO.


ZomZom - I am on my 6th Kindle and all have faded like this. Some much worse. Are you saying that your Kindle doesn't do this at all? I am about to give up and keep the one I have, but will go for number 7 if it is possible to have no fade. I read outside in the sun almost daily, and am almost tempted to go back to DTBs.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

vg said:


> Are you saying that your Kindle doesn't do this at all?


I can tell you that mine does not fade.... I've used it at least a dozen times in the direct sun.... Today I was outside for almost an hour, no fading.


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## Jimm (Jul 26, 2009)

Oh, my gosh. Thanks for trying to document this problem. I just found this board and this post while I was on hold with Amazon. 

Just a few minutes ago, I stepped out onto my deck to enjoy my brand new K2 with breakfast. Ah, the bird song, ah the breeze, ah the sun!  The sun!  Everything was fine until I turned the page!  Yikes. The page was so washed out, that it wasn't even readable...at all!  I turned the page again and thought, "Oh, no! My brand new Kindle has died." I went back inside and turned the page and, viola, it was readable again.

I wish I could post shots of my Kindle. Some people said they could not tell difference between your two units. My unit makes your problem units look almost perfect. At least yours can still be read. Mine was so faded and full of horizontal lines that it could not be read at all.

Amazon graciously sent me another overnight. But I just don't believe what the rep said...that this is a rare problem that he had never heard of. I just can't believe him after my experience with this brand new unit and after reading this board.

Thanks for describing the problem so accurately. Everyone should take their Kindle outside, right now, and try reading in direct sunlight. I think there will be many returns. Since most people do most of their reading indoors, there could be hundreds or even thousands of units defective, but not yet discovered.


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## Jimm (Jul 26, 2009)

Yikes! I see that "vg" is on their seventh Kindle, the previous six all having the same fading. Rats. I am leaving for Asia for more than a year and bought the Kindle to save on book weight and storage. My replacement Kindle (see earlier post) will arrive two days before I leave. But, after doing more reading here, I have no faith that the new one will be any better than the first one I had.

I was on the fence, trying to choose between the Kindle and the Sony 505 in the first place. Having made my choice, it looks like Amazon has some serious manufacturing issues. Does anyone have any experience with how the Sony does in sunlight? I could still get a Sony at my nearby Target and return the Sony before I leave. I can't use the wireless properties of the K2 overseas, anyway.

Thanks.


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## Jimm (Jul 26, 2009)

Art and History Fan:

Thanks for the pics, but none of them are taken in direct sun. I think these posts are about fading on the Kindle in direct sun. Have you turned pages on a Kindle or Sony in direct sun?  Do you have pictures of either unit after a page turn in direct sun?

Thanks again!


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## MineKinder (Jan 5, 2009)

Ok, question 
After you go out in the sun and the text has faded, does the text go back to normal, once you have taken it out of the sun 
Or does it stay permanently faded


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

Once you take it out of the sun, it goes back to normal. You just need to refresh the page (like page forward, page back, the refresh button ... which I always forget how to do).
I first heard about the sun fade from KB. And when I took mine out, it faded slightly like this thread shows. But when I heard of others who had issues where complete words were gone, I figured I was fine. The letters thin a bit, but I can still read it just fine. Plus, I live in Texas heat, so staying out for hours at a time isn't really an option for me.


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## MineKinder (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks Addie, I would not know, because "I" never sit in the sun


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

MineKinder said:


> Thanks Addie, I would not know, because "I" never sit in the sun


I used to all the time! ... until I started looking like someone had painted me red while I was sleeping. 
So it's good for us we don't have to be concerned with sun fade issues.


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## idolguy (Dec 31, 2008)

Jimm said:


> Art and History Fan:
> 
> Thanks for the pics, but none of them are taken in direct sun. I think these posts are about fading on the Kindle in direct sun. Have you turned pages on a Kindle or Sony in direct sun? Do you have pictures of either unit after a page turn in direct sun?


After reading this thread, I know I won't be reading my Kindle in the sun. I have enough DTB's to last a good while, and they'll be the ones I read outside.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

I truly feel for anyone who has had to deal with a K2 with sun fade issues. It has to be incredibly frustrating.

I wanted to post about my experience with the 2 K2's I've owned. Maybe it will give some people some hope that there really ARE good K2's without sun fade issues.

I bought my 1st K2 in April and tested it several times for sun fade and had absolutely no issue with it. I sold it to a fellow board member in June I believe it was, as I had just gotten my KDX and was so impressed with it that I figured I would sell my K2 and buy another KDX, I still had a K1 at this time.

Long story short I ended up missing my K2 so I ordered a new one. It arrived in July and have tested it also for sun fade and it doesn't have it at all.

My new K2 has darker text than my 1st one and I do like that improvement, and I do believe it is a purposeful improvement on Amazon's part.

So anyone who is going through the frustrating sun fade issues and dealing with returns, don't lose hope.

To those considering a K2 but afraid all or most K2's have sun fade issues, take heart,as it is simply not so.


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## legalbs2 (May 27, 2009)

Maybe Amazon should let everyone with fade issues to trade in the K2 for a KDX and pay the difference from their original price.  You know another Kindle will be coming out soon.


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## Jimm (Jul 26, 2009)

legalbs2:

I like your solution. But, I would go further...if a customer has to return more than one, I think Amazon should just trade you for a DX and THEY pay the difference.


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

We have 3 k2's in our home and none (thankfully) have had the sun fade issue. All 3 of them were the 1st ones purchased each time (no returns or exchanges ever done) I am only posting this to give hope to those of you who feel like you may never get a good one. I know some people are on #5 or #6 etc. There is hope and you will get a good one, I am sorry you have been put through so much hassle just trying to get a normal functioning e-reader but dont despair yours will come.

The pics that show half the screen covered in direct sunlight while leaving the other half of the screen uncovered were amazing. That was the best example I have seen of this issue. I didn't realize the sun-fade issue was literally such a direct link to the sun. Or that it would show up half and half like that. Thank you for the pics and I hope everyone gets a good k2 soon.


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## artsandhistoryfan (Feb 7, 2009)

idolguy said:


> After reading this thread, I know I won't be reading my Kindle in the sun. I have enough DTB's to last a good while, and they'll be the ones I read outside.


 Wow, old thread, I couldn't remember pics. I meant mainly interest in what Sony and Kindle look like side by side.

My Kindles have been taken to direct sunlight and pages turned. No problems. So I've been lucky.

Sony has a rep for not replacing sun-problem units. I've read that they tell the user that's the way it is.

Amazon's customer relations on screen problems is very good.


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## BlueQuill (Jun 4, 2009)

Perhaps a dumb question: do you see this sun fade issue reading inside but with bright sunlight through the window? I haven't taken my Kindle 2 outside for extended reading yet, but I do often read in a sun room with bright morning light.


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## legalbs2 (May 27, 2009)

Jimm said:


> legalbs2:
> 
> I like your solution. But, I would go further...if a customer has to return more than one, I think Amazon should just trade you for a DX and THEY pay the difference.


I don't think Amazon would go that far. This is a business, not a charity. You pays your money and takes your chances. At least Amazon has a better customer service than most.


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## brianm (May 11, 2009)

I see you have wispernet on.....wonder if anything changes when you turn it off?

  Brian


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## laura99 (Mar 13, 2009)

BlueQuill - yes sunlight through a window will trigger the sun fade. I have seen it in the house and the car. But it does have to be directly hitting the Kindle screen.

I recieved my replacment last night and will be testing it at lunch (crosses fingers)


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