# Amazon Affiliate agreement change -- MERGED thread



## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't know how many here are Amazon Associates, but I know a lot of the big ebook promotion sites are. Amazon just sent out some operating agreement changes that go into effect March 1. The one that jumped out at me is pasted below.

(Mods, if this breaks the WHOA policy, please delete with my apologies)



Amazon said:


> "In addition, notwithstanding the advertising fee rates described on this page or anything to the contrary contained in this Operating Agreement, if we determine you are primarily promoting free Kindle eBooks (i.e., eBooks for which the customer purchase price is $0.00), YOU WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO EARN ANY ADVERTISING FEES DURING ANY MONTH IN WHICH YOU MEET THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
> (a) 20,000 or more free Kindle eBooks are ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links; and
> (b) At least 80% of all Kindle eBooks ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links are free Kindle eBooks."


Unless I'm misreading, that looks like it could potentially have a pretty big impact on the promotion of free books. I figure the sites that offer cheap books might be okay, because they can just stop tagging the free books with their Associates ID. The sites devoted to nothing but free books, however...

Here's the Amazon link to the full list of changes: https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp/associates/help/operating/compare


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## Hopeful Writer (Jul 24, 2012)

I am quaking in my boots and already very sad. Wow.

*shakes head*


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

Unless I'm misreading that, it seems specifically designed to get rid of "free books" sites.


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## Hopeful Writer (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't mean to sound flip, but how will we ever have successful free runs again?

Isn't Amazon just hurting their own business?


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

HopefulWriter said:


> Isn't Amazon just hurting their own business?


I suspect that they've determined somehow that they're losing money because of this (probably in delivery costs), from sites that generate huge numbers of freebie downloads with no corresponding "actual" sales.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I don't mean to sound flip, but how will we ever have successful free runs again? Isn't Amazon just hurting their own business?


Again, assuming I'm not misunderstanding this-- I would assume that they've looked into the matter, and determined that all the free books are hurting sales more than they're helping. What effect this has on individual authors is irrelevant to them-- they're looking at their bottom line. That's what they do.

My big question is what they plan to do to Select. Free days are going to be less of an enticement now. So what's the plan to keep Select something that authors want to enroll in, or do they no longer care?


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## Hopeful Writer (Jul 24, 2012)

Hmm, yeah. I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't do something to hurt their own business.

But this is definitely going to make life for Indies much much tougher. After all, we depend on these free runs for the ranking and therefore sales boosts. Without the free book sites, how will we reach those people who want to download free books?

*banging head*

Maybe they've determined that Select doesn't help them as much as they thought they would?

Edit to add: Just noticed you have to meet both criteria, not just any one.
So smaller sites should be ok, larger sites may get away with being careful not to exceed 80% freeloads.
*am breathing again*


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

I predicted that Amazon were going to crack down on free book numbers, so I've built up a reasonably big mailing list for my clients. I feel sorry for authors if they are now only going to have a slim chance of getting listed on the big freebie websites. 

I'm also predicting a big exodus from KDP Select.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

It's hard to say how all this is going to play out, but it appears to be the latest change which reduces the power of free.

In March we had the Great Algo Change which reduced the value of freeloads on the Popularity List to one tenth of a sale (they had been equal to a paid sale before that). Several months ago Amazon started experimenting with hiding the Top 100 Free behind a tab. And a couple of months ago they started putting pressure on sites like ENT to feature less freebies.

Obviously, this will vastly reduce the amount of free books being featured by reader sites - and could possibly eliminate them altogether.

What does that mean? I'm not totally sure, but I guess these sites are going to have to refocus on paid listings. That will mean more advertising opportunities, but probably no more mentions of free books. And considering that you need at least a few thousand downloads to get any kind of post-free bump these days, it probably greatly lessens the value of a KDP Select free run.

It's not all bad news though. It could be great for those on a perma-free strategy - if the number of free books is going to be reduced. (Maybe.) It's also not necessarily a bad thing that reader sites will have to focus on finding readers who want to pay for books, rather than those who just want freebies. That might make ads on those sites a little more effective.

This are just my initial thoughts. I could come to the opposite conclusion later!


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## Tabitha Levin (Nov 1, 2011)

I would say that a big factor in this, is the Amz cookie lasts 24 hours, for *any* purchases (not just the product the customer clicked on originally).

So, if someone clicks an associate link to download a free book, and then goes on to buy something else during that period, the associate will get a commission. For the big sites, with thousands of downloads via their link, that could mean some serious coin.

I suspect Amz is frowning on having to pay commissions to those large sites that technically do not 'sell' their products.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

traceye said:


> I would say that a big factor in this, is the Amz cookie lasts 24 hours, for *any* purchases (not just the product the customer clicked on originally).
> 
> So, if someone clicks an associate link to download a free book, and then goes on to buy something else during that period, the associate will get a commission. For the big sites, with thousands of downloads via their link, that could mean some serious coin.


Exactly. Reader sites make much more from affiliate income than they do on advertising fees.

The thing about the cookie is worth talking about, because I *think* this is why they'll stop featuring freebies altogether.

I thought for a moment they could still feature them and not include the affiliate link, but I suppose that free "purchase" will probably get counted towards the limit if a user clicks on any of the affiliate links in the 24 hours previous (which is highly likely).



traceye said:


> I suspect Amz is frowning on having to pay commissions to those large sites that technically do not 'sell' their products.


I'm not sure about this part. I suspect it's something to do with bandwidth, or server drag, or one of those other things I don't understand


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Colin said:


> I predicted that Amazon were going to crack down on free book numbers,


Yeah, that whole "told ya so" comes to mind 
It is not be a bad thing for the entire indie movement if the sheer volume of freebies is reduced and that readers end up paying more for their entertainment, collectively speaking. 
The transition would be painful because there just aren't a lot of other promotional vehicles out there (at this time). Hopefully, Amazon will come up with something else or, like you said, the KDP / Select exodus will be huge.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> Hopefully, Amazon will come up with something else or, like you said, the KDP / Select exodus will be huge.


This is what I'm wondering about, yeah. Amazon does seem to want indies in Select, so I'd guess something else is coming to encourage (or compel) us to stay exclusive.



> Yeah, that whole "told ya so" comes to mind


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## Kwalker (Aug 23, 2012)

Maybe one of the reasons that you need large free download numbers to make a dent in post free sales is because of the sites that are able to boost free books to such high numbers.

It actually might be easier to get free visibility, by leveling the playing field a bit. Plus, that means more customers might come into amazon and browse the genre free lists which are right next to the beststeller lists to find their free books - thus getting more exposure through browsing instead of just clicking a link, purchasing that free book then exiting amazon. 

While I think it may be a safe assumption that it will have an effect on sites like ENT and POI, we don't know that it will be a bad thing for us. Change isn't always bad.


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## Kwalker (Aug 23, 2012)

I think it is a bit of a stretch to make the jump in logic that this will cause an exodus from select. Not everyone who uses select or free days uses POI or ENT, etc. 

For them, they are like to see more results now, because they won't be competing with the other sites.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think this will be "bad" for Indies.  Maybe it will make things better.

Either way, self publishing is a new frontier going through a lot of changes, best to be able to roll with them.

The best way to insulate against these things is to be actively capturing a list of your fans (using an email list or Facebook etc…) so that you can notify them of your next book releases and when you offer books free or reduced.  Thats something YOU can control.  Its never good to depend on a platform or service that someone else is in control of.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Kwalker said:


> Maybe one of the reasons that you need large free download numbers to make a dent in post free sales is because of the sites that are able to boost free books to such high numbers.


I think that's only partly true. While the visibility from being in, say, the Top 20 free would drive a huge amount of downloads, the bump which leads to post-free sales is a raw numbers game. The more downloads, the higher you bounce up. If ENT can't mention your book, that's several thousand downloads that you are never going to get - which will reduce the bump up the Popularity List post-free, and thus reduce the sales you get post-free.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I think it is a bit of a stretch to make the jump in logic that this will cause an exodus from select. Not everyone who uses select or free days uses POI or ENT, etc.


Of late, very few people seem to be doing well with free days unless they get featured on some big site. It's not worth it to me to have my books exclusive to Amazon for three months unless I have a reasonable chance of doing well with free promotions. Of course, some people do well with borrows, and those people will probably be happy to stay in Select. I'm not sure how many people are finding borrows worth the loss of sales at all other retailers, though.



> It actually might be easier to get free visibility, by leveling the playing field a bit.


I agree that this is a possibility. We'll just have to wait and see.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

I just got an e-mail about this from Amazon and I didn't bother opening it, since I figured it was some technical point that wouldn't affect me. I'm REALLY glad you posted the news here, though.

I just put my first (and so far only) book in Select back in December, thinking I'd get out right after its term ended because I'm not a big fan of exclusivity. However, the experiment was moderately successful. It gave me one more tool to drive sales and provided visibility that I wouldn't have otherwise had. With my term expiring in 3 weeks, I've been sitting on the fence about whether to re-enroll.

This news edges me towards _not_ re-enrolling. If it becomes harder to find sites to feature my freebie, the benefits are greatly reduced. Without the visibility provided by ENT and BB, I probably wouldn't have gotten the bump in borrows and sales on my other books.

The flip side to this is that there could be a return to the power of ads for paid books. Sort of like the olden days. Getting paid for a book is a wonderful thing, but opportunities for those ads are even more limited (or have been to this point).

All these changes make my head spin.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

I for one am glad to see this. I like to be paid for my work. This just means its a tougher road for those who depended on free. I never did, so the road has always been tough, a great part of that reason was all of the freebies that people downloaded and never read. As I've said before, I get making the first in a series perma-free, if you decide that's part of your plan, once the series is out.  But there has been such a glut of free books that anyone hoping to actually build a career and make enough to even pay one or two bills has been struggling.  I don't think the majoriy of "free" books made those authors a permanent success anyway.  Just my two cents. Just one more shortcut that is taken away. New plans have to be made for those who used it. Maybe enough will drop out that the rest of us can sell, simply because they really don't want to do the work it takes to promote and market. Who knows?


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Quiss said:


> Yeah, that whole "told ya so" comes to mind
> It is not be a bad thing for the entire indie movement if the sheer volume of freebies is reduced and that readers end up paying more for their entertainment, collectively speaking.
> The transition would be painful because there just aren't a lot of other promotional vehicles out there (at this time). Hopefully, Amazon will come up with something else or, like you said, the KDP / Select exodus will be huge.


Like many others, I've come to realize that 'free' isn't really a good thing for the long term viability of authors. Yeah, it's nice having the thousands of downloads and then making a little money once you come off the free run, but we've been setting a very bad precedent to the point where consumers won't want or need to pay for content if we keep going down this road. I think Amazon fully realizes how much the free movement could potentially harm their KDP efforts in the long run. A lot of ppl took the bait and own Kindles or other devices at this point. Now, Amazon wants to start growing their profit by having consumers buy content, not get it for free. IMO, 'free' is now undermining Amazon's profitability.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

I don't think they were as concerned about the free numbers as the fact they were paying out affiliate sales. People were coming to the site via a freebie sites and then sometime later bought a book. So the freebie sites were generating tons of affiliate sales, without an associated direct purchase. Amazon would rather have those direct purchases.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> This news edges me towards _not_ re-enrolling. If it becomes harder to find sites to feature my freebie, the benefits are greatly reduced. Without the visibility provided by ENT and BB, I probably wouldn't have gotten the bump in borrows and sales on my other books.


Yes, but just remember it's harder for EVERYONE, not just you. So then you are on a level playing field.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

tensen said:


> I don't think they were as concerned about the free numbers as the fact they were paying out affiliate sales. People were coming to the site via a freebie sites and then sometime later bought a book. So the freebie sites were generating tons of affiliate sales, without an associated direct purchase. Amazon would rather have those direct purchases.


That was my first impression of this move.
But a sale is still a sale, no? If not for the lure of the freebie, the buyer of some other product might not have gone to Amazon in the first place.

Also, Amazon could just shorten that 24-hour window by a whole lot to avoid paying out those commissions.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

This does not bother me as "free" has been has been less effective lately. I get the same amount of downloads monthly and my ratio is one out of nine - ten go on to buy the rest of the books in my series. This is strictly from my own promotion without any big site or affiliate promotion. For a series, with the first book permanently free, You are using it as a marketing tool to get real readers. So even if the amount of those who download book 1 goes down (through better target marketing), the ration of those reading Book 2 should go up.

My best promos lately have been on paid books. I just did the ENT Book of the Day, lowered my price from $5.99 to $2.99 and sold over 330. The ad cost me $150, but I made $660. I would do that every day of the week if I could find enough sites to run these kind of promotions.



dgaughran said:


> It's hard to say how all this is going to play out, but it appears to be the latest change which reduces the power of free.
> 
> In March we had the Great Algo Change which reduced the value of freeloads on the Popularity List to one tenth of a sale (they had been equal to a paid sale before that). Several months ago Amazon started experimenting with hiding the Top 100 Free behind a tab. And a couple of months ago they started putting pressure on sites like ENT to feature less freebies.
> 
> ...


Exactly. There is no "I told you so" about it.

I won't stop running book 1 free in my series. Because even with almost no promotion, it boosts the sales of books 2 & 3 and I receive emails daily from those waiting on _Angel in the Fire, Book 4_, which means it is effectively helping me build a fan base. For those of us who will continue running free books, it's good news because it will cull out the competition.

It also means with less ways for readers to find free, I have a better chance of knowing my target marketing (for those who will read my book) will be more effective.

I see only good with this latest change, but I always do look at the bright side.


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## Hopeful Writer (Jul 24, 2012)

Lisa, thanks for your post, it's very reassuring. I am breathing again now.

It's nice to know that paid promotions do so nicely.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

HopefulWriter said:


> I don't mean to sound flip, but how will we ever have successful free runs again?
> 
> Isn't Amazon just hurting their own business?


Just the opposite. I think this means that free runs are not doing anything to encourage actual sales on Amazon and Amazon wants to discourage them. Those free sites are not generating enough additional sale revenue to justify the continued encouragement of freebies. While it may be no big deal for any individual author to give away 5,000 free copies of your book, to Amazon (multipled by hundreds of authors) tens of thousands of freebies drains digital resources and depresses the actual market of people paying for books. Amazon's job is to make money for Amazon. Your "visibility" on their site is not a factor if it depresses their bottom line.


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## Hopeful Writer (Jul 24, 2012)

Hi Julie,

Usually, when I give away a lot of books, I also get a lot of sales. I would assume (from the anecdotal evidence shared here) that most people have similar results. If it costs Amazon 2cents to give away a book, 5000 giveaways = $100 in costs for them. If, over the next 30 days, the book makes more than $330 (assuming the max 70% royalty rate), Amazon profits. 

Of course, I don't know the ins and outs of their business, and I suppose they wind up paying the free book affiliates much more than they can afford, so they've decided to change the rules.

*sigh*


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

I've been in the affiliate business for over 10 years now. This has everything to do with them not liking the attractive free entry point for sites who promote freebies with their affiliate links, which sets a cookie, then potentially backs up to a regular sale and payout. In my opinion, this has zero, nada, to do with their free books, and everything to do with a smart affiliate business decision.

The only people this really hurts are big freebie sites that drive tons of traffic to freebies. POI, Ereadernews and the like. But you do realize that in order to make decent money you have to drive a TON of clicks. I mean a ton. The payouts on Amazon are so low... it's a volume business.


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## jvin248 (Jan 31, 2012)

.
The solution would seem to be for the POI/ENT/etc sites to offer bare links for any free books listed. They get the draw of readers looking for free but only put affiliate link tags on the $1+ books promoted there. Seems pretty simple to comply.  ...yes, they are getting lower total earnings because they are not getting the current "loophole dollars" but they keep going. The sites that can better automate their posts, especially for free, can lower their "costs" and stay in the game.
.
.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

dgaughran said:


> It's not all bad news though. It could be great for those on a perma-free strategy - if the number of free books is going to be reduced. (Maybe.) It's also not necessarily a bad thing that reader sites will have to focus on finding readers who want to pay for books, rather than those who just want freebies. That might make ads on those sites a little more effective.


As someone who has occasionally done some perma-free (or at least long-term-free through price-matching) but for the most part focuses on paid books because I don't do KDP Select, all I have to say is WHOOHOO! Thank goodness. Maybe we'll actually see readers paying for books again instead of going on never-ending free grabs.

Of course, like others have said, this lessens the incentive to remain in KDP Select, which tells me they're going to have to do something else to entice authors to enroll. And because we've already seen them experimenting with dangling 70% royalties in front of those who enroll in KDP Select, my guess is that's what they'll do. We might even see a time when the only way to get 70% royalties in ANY country is through Select.

*shudders*


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

jvin248 said:


> .
> The solution would seem to be for the POI/ENT/etc sites to offer bare links for any free books listed. They get the draw of readers looking for free but only put affiliate link tags on the $1+ books promoted there. Seems pretty simple to comply. ...yes, they are getting lower total earnings because they are not getting the current "loophole dollars" but they keep going. The sites that can better automate their posts, especially for free, can lower their "costs" and stay in the game.
> .
> .


ENT and POI do great on paid sales, too. So does BookBub. Exactly, all they have to do is not use their affiliate link for free books, or cut down on the number of free they promote.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

This has nothing to do with free runs. It's an affiliate agreement decision. Makes sense too. Why let an affiliate promote a ton of free stuff and still set a cookie? I'm going to reach out to my contacts today and see if I can get someone on the inside of Amazon associates to comment and back me up.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> Of course, like others have said, this lessens the incentive to remain in KDP Select, which tells me they're going to have to do something else to entice authors to enroll. And because we've already seen them experimenting with dangling 70% royalties in front of those who enroll in KDP Select, my guess is that's what they'll do. We might even see a time when the only way to get 70% royalties in ANY country is through Select.


I have no doubt in my mind that is exactly the direction they are moving. Though I would suspect it will be rolled out as an "increase" by increasing the royalty for non-select to 45-50% (which would be in line with normal wholesale pricing) and 70% for exclusive content. Most likely also with a new "exclusives" section of the site where people could browse exclusive content.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

jimkukral said:


> This has nothing to do with free runs. It's an affiliate agreement decision. Makes sense too. Why let an affiliate promote a ton of free stuff and still set a cookie?


I agree.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I have no doubt in my mind that is exactly the direction they are moving. Though I would suspect it will be rolled out as an "increase" by increasing the royalty for non-select to 45-50% (which would be in line with normal wholesale pricing) and 70% for exclusive content. Most likely also with a new "exclusives" section of the site where people could browse exclusive content.


I could see this back-firing on Amazon big time. I used to just promote my Amazon links, but now I promote others also. I could see where a competitor would step in offering the seventy percent for non-exclusive, and authors promoting those links like crazy. They've already built up a huge backlist of people who would love to do direct sales elsewhere if there were a viable alternative (trade publishers, small press, readers who hate exclusive, etc.)

Wal Mart's back lash (for many different reasons) has kicked in and executives are panicking. They've been forced to raise prices to mantain profitabilty, which in turn, is losing them even more buyers. Some private memos were leaked. 
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-02-15/business/chi-walmart-shares-tumble-on-leaked-memo-citing-sales-weakness-20130215_1_wal-mart-shares-wal-mart-executives-david-tovar


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Here's what my industry insider just posted to me on FB. He's like the Wolf Blitzer of the affiliate industry.

_Angel wrote: "Since the free ebooks are essentially lead gen, I've definitely seen lead gen campaigns put hard ratios on the number of free to paid sign-ups required to qualify for payment. Amazon is doing this because some affiliates are sending junk traffic in order to game the odds of getting a commission. It is an understandable move from a business standpoint, but I feel it is part of a long trend by Amazon to marginalize their affiliates."_


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "Usually, when I give away a lot of books, I also get a lot of sales. I would assume (from the anecdotal evidence shared here) that most people have similar results. If it costs Amazon 2cents to give away a book, 5000 giveaways = $100 in costs for them. If, over the next 30 days, the book makes more than $330 (assuming the max 70% royalty rate), Amazon profits. "


Amazon only profits if the consumer wouldn't have purchased another book. If a consumer is going to buy one book, all books compete for that sale. Free is a competitive tactic independents use to give their book more visibility than others. We can't assume the consumer would have purchased nothing if the book had not been previously free. That would have to assume the consumer bought a book only because it had been free. Incremental profit to an author does not equate to incremental profit to Amazon.

Looking at the notice, and applying Occam's Razor, we might say the people downloading the free books aren't buying enough other stuff.

Unfounded speculation: Some form of free downloading might be restricted to Prime members.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

jimkukral said:


> He's like the Wolf Blitzer of the affiliate industry.


I'm not trying to derail the thread, but this isn't exactly an endorsement for me? I like CNN well enough, but I've never understood how Wolf Blitzer got to be such a star there... I find his reports to be idiotic. (Sorry to any WB fans.)

Anyway, continue with your discussion....


Betsy


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Maybe this is actually a good thing....and .99 books will become the new 'free', which means everyone might make more money.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I'd love to know what the folks over at POI, Bookbub or ENT are thinking.

They've been sort of double-dipping anyway, have they not? They charge for certain ads and then they also get affiliate dollars. 

I can see the price of those ads going up. But will their readership stay the same if fewer freebies are offered?
Bookbub is probably in a better position than the others.


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Just the opposite. I* think this means that free runs are not doing anything to encourage actual sales on Amazon and Amazon wants to discourage them. Those free sites are not generating enough additional sale revenue to justify the continued encouragement of freebies.* While it may be no big deal for any individual author to give away 5,000 free copies of your book, to Amazon (multipled by hundreds of authors) tens of thousands of freebies drains digital resources and depresses the actual market of people paying for books. Amazon's job is to make money for Amazon. Your "visibility" on their site is not a factor if it depresses their bottom line.


My sentiments exactly!



> YOU WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO EARN ANY ADVERTISING FEES DURING ANY MONTH IN WHICH YOU MEET THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
> (a) 20,000 or more free Kindle eBooks are ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links; and
> (b) At least 80% of all Kindle eBooks ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links are free Kindle eBooks."


When I read the statement above it's clear to me that Amazon is probably seeing very little to no (I'm sure they see some revenue.  )kindle book revenue from these freebie downloads. Yes, many individual authors earn huge amounts of money from the "free bounce" but Amazon may be losing kindle ebook revenue (and other revenue) when you look at the big picture. I suspect that the vast majority of people who download free ebooks don't go on to purchase other books in the 24 hours the affiliate link is active. But that doesn't mean that the affiliates lose money. Think about it, if their affiliate links generate 1 million freebie downloads in a month and only a fraction of those customers go on to buy something (even if it's not a kindle ebook) the affiliate can still make a lot of money. But are those non-ebook sales enough to justify the cost to Amazon when 1 million people download free books? I really don't know for sure, but I suspect that Amazon didn't single out free ebooks without taking a hard look at their data. Amazon is known for taking a financial hit when they think it will benefit them. Knowing this, I suspect that they're cracking down on free ebooks because freebies no longer benefit their business.

How does this impact authors? That's something I need to think about because I'm just not sure.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I'm not trying to derail the thread, but this isn't exactly an endorsement for me? I like CNN well enough, but I've never understood how Wolf Blitzer got to be such a star there... I find his reports to be idiotic. (Sorry to any WB fans.)
> 
> Anyway, continue with your discussion....
> 
> ...


Ok, bad choice of examples. He's the Woodward and Bernstein of affiliate insiders.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

jvin248 said:


> .
> The solution would seem to be for the POI/ENT/etc sites to offer bare links for any free books listed. They get the draw of readers looking for free but only put affiliate link tags on the $1+ books promoted there. Seems pretty simple to comply. ...yes, they are getting lower total earnings because they are not getting the current "loophole dollars" but they keep going. The sites that can better automate their posts, especially for free, can lower their "costs" and stay in the game.
> .
> .


That was my first thought, but if you remember that the cookie lasts for 24 hours, if they have clicked on a paid link (with an affiliate code) in the last 24 hours, than that free "purchase" could count towards the total, and choke off payments if you exceed it.

Could. I don't know enough about how they will monitor this to be sure.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

Also, this specifically targets ONLY free Kindle ebooks. Yet there is TONS of free content on Amazon. Free MP3s, free apps, free digital games, free movies. This seems specifically targeted at the sites that promote free ebooks. That would indicate something more going on than just worry about bad affiliates.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

I LOVE free days ... I've always, historically, done well.  Not as well recently, but this past summer, being free for three days launched TMT into a realm previously unknown and accounted for hundreds of sales I'm certain I'd never have gotten without Select.  I lean heavily on free book promotions to make the magic happen.  I've never had a problem with my books being free, though YMM. I'm a mostly unknown author, cutting my teeth in the business, and making the sacrifices (hopefully) for a greater good in the future.

This news really stuns and saddens me.  

I am simply not in a position to pay hundreds of dollars to promote free material on a dozen different sites -- but the spread of sites is, ultimately, what makes the free days potent: the more people who know, the more people who click buy and the better the sales or freebies and the the better the visibility which means better the lasting results.  But if you can't afford to be loose and fast with cash, there is the rub.  It's a catch-22.  Amazon has really closed a door with this news.  

This industry is like a tilt-a-whirl right now, I'm getting dizzy.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

This will definitely impact my WTRAFSOG author promotion / reader recommendation page as well.

I cannot begin to tell you how many readers have thanked me profusely for listing FREE ebooks from authors, SPECIFICALLY because it has introduced them to that author and they go on to buy everything that author has written AND many become avid advocates of that author in social media, etc. ... leading to even more sales for the author ... and for Amazon.

Seems to me to be a fundamental shift in business philosophy as well.  It used to seem that Amazon's approach was "we don't care how you get to us, because once you are TO us ... we have enough content and worth to keep you as a paying customer".

This change will literally chop affiliate's earning abilities by 25% to 50% or more.

Not a good day to be an affiliate.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> That would indicate something more going on than just worry about bad affiliates.


Is it possible that the big trad publishers are unhappy with Amazon as millions of freebies cut into their profits? Would Amazon bow to pressure from them?


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

Hmmm. Possible solution for free book sites: do not use your affiliate code for freebie books and use a 3rd party link redirector, like goo.gl ?

Beyond that, maybe they are losing money on it. I wouldn't see why they'd change a policy in such a way otherwise. And this may be a result of Amazon's inability to track paid sales that resulted from a free book download. i.e. 100 people may download a free book, read it, and then 60 of those buy the next one in the series two weeks later. The sale isn't tracked to the affiliate because they buy the book so much later and don't really need to go back to the website to do so. Some of the sales may even be tracked to the author's own affiliate account if the author uses affiliate links in his book (which many do).

The policy change would be fine if Amazon links (or would link) "obvious associations" to the same affiliate, with some respect to length between purchases. For instance:

- Amazon customer buys book 1 of a series via BookBub.
- Two weeks later, Amazon customer buys book 2 of that series (or another book by the same author).
- Two weeks later, Amazon customer buys book 3 of that series (or another book by the same author).

^ In the above example, would the paid purchases be attributable to BookBub? BookBub obviously turned the reader onto a new author, resulting in several paid sales that probably aren't tracked under the current system.

If nothing else, the paid sales should qualify the account as "promoting free which leads to paid sales," whether Amazon actually pays out commissions for those later paid sales or not. I think the affiliate should be paid based on an example like the one above, but I think they would be happy with not having such scenarios count negatively against them when they are, in fact, getting Amazon money.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Is it possible that the big trad publishers are unhappy with Amazon as millions of freebies cut into their profits? Would Amazon bow to pressure from them?


I don't think so. This is just Amazon quelling the herd of the increasing number of sites that are grabbing a datafeed of the freebie books and blasting it all over the Internet. I just found a new site the other day that does this. I won't list it here, but basically they do exactly what I just said and send an update out every day with hundreds of free books in a list, with their affiliate id added. Their intent is what Angel said. Lead generation. You get a ton of clicks on the freebies, the affiliate cookie is set, then if the clicker buys something else along with their freebie, in the next 24 hours, you get credit for that as well.

In reality, this will effect probably about 10-20 people who are driving enough traffic to meet the requirements in (a). The rest of us, we don't have to worry about anything.


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Yeah, that whole "told ya so" comes to mind
> It is not be a bad thing for the entire indie movement if the sheer volume of freebies is reduced and that readers end up paying more for their entertainment, collectively speaking.
> The transition would be painful because there just aren't a lot of other promotional vehicles out there (at this time). Hopefully, Amazon will come up with something else or, like you said, the KDP / Select exodus will be huge.


I am assuming not many people got the recent KDP survey, which asked a lot of questions about how authors feel about promotion and advertising, what they do, what they would want, etc. I'm sure Amazon is getting ready to turn the wrench on the competition once again.

Look for KDP Select titles getting some kind of preferential treatment in advertising, promotion assistance, or something like that. And I still won't go exclusive.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

jimkukral said:


> In reality, this will effect probably about 10-20 people who are driving enough traffic to meet the requirements in (a). The rest of us, we don't have to worry about anything.


Jim,

Definitely not true. I post about 50 - 60 books a day on my successful author promotion / reader recommendation page. About 15% - 20% of these are freebies to generate interest and traffic.

With the volume of readers I have - the freebies downloaded (even if I cut that back to 5% - 10% and ONLY post freebies directly requested by authors asking for promotion) - will easily outpace the numbers in the new Amazon operating agreement.

And I am a very small fish in the affiliate pond. There are many other sites out there that will be negatively impacted by this.

Summer


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

summerdaniels71 said:


> Jim,
> 
> Definitely not true. I post about 50 - 60 books a day on my successful author promotion / reader recommendation page. About 15% - 20% of these are freebies to generate interest and traffic.
> 
> ...


Maybe you're right. I was just guessing. I've seen this happen before in the industry. Usually/typically, the affiliate management teams run separate from the rest of the corporation. I know Amazon Associates work it that way. My point is they're looking out for the associates program, and that's about it. Which is why I'm confident in saying this has nothing to do with the freebies lists on Amazon and all that.

This does indeed suck for a lot of people. How many? Nobody knows.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

I got the email today, too. I didn't realize that you still get paid affiliate $$ for free ebooks. This obviously doesn't seem to apply to me since my one (and only) freebie promo experience was terribad, and I will never do it again.

I will admit that there are a ton of kindle freebies I've had on my kindle for over 2 years and still haven't gotten around to reading them. There is just too much out there, it's overwhelming.

Maybe another reason Amazon is doing this because the number of free books out there is starting to overtake the number of paid books. Everyone loves free stuff, but too much of a good thing eventually becomes bad...


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## J.R. Thomson (Mar 30, 2011)

So is the overall translation that you can't have 20,000 active Amazon affiliate links?

I'm taking a wild guess here but perhaps they are trying to target the sites that scrape pretty much ALL books and other products on Amazon.  I've seen
plenty of sites like that.

Perhaps high quality sites like Pixel of Ink will be ok?


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

This is very welcome news to me.

And it should be to authors as well.

Here's something from the affiliate side that isn't being discussed yet that you guys should know :

https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp/associates/help/t58

--snip---
4. How will I know if these conditions have been or are likely to be met?

We are introducing new reporting in Associates Central to provide information on *number of free* and paid Kindle eBook downloads. These reports will be available by March 1, 2013 
--snip--

No more "XYZ site was the one that got me all of these downloads#@(#(!!". ... when in reality, it may or may not have been. You should know this data will exist moving forward and ask for it.

Transparency is going to be huge moving forward. And value.

This is a Good Thing.

I won't ride on the I-told-you-so-train too long either but I've said it before... Amazon is looking for value. Both for the readers and authors.

You can spin that lots of ways but that's really what this move is about.

There's no value in simply rehashing the free books of the moment.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

eBookBooster.com said:


> So is the overall translation that you can't have 20,000 active Amazon affiliate links?
> 
> I'm taking a wild guess here but perhaps they are trying to target the sites that scrape pretty much ALL books and other products on Amazon. I've seen
> plenty of sites like that.
> ...


Not the translation, no.

I have almost 50,000 followers on my WTRAFSOG page, for example. Let's say I post only 5 free ebooks a day (about 10% of my total daily postings in this example).

If 1,000 readers (a low estimate) download those five freebies that equals about 150,000 free downloads a month ... WAY in excess of the 20,000 number in the new operating agreement.

Now ... in order not to exceed the other threshold they have posted (the 80%) ... the links on my page have to generate approximately 40,000 paid kindle ebook sales in that same month.

That is approximately 1300+ ebooks a day. The readers on my site are voracious ... but not quite THAT voracious.

Ironically - that does not take into account at all the other ancillary items that readers buy AFTER they get to Amazon ... which represents A LOT of additional income to Amazon.

Their decision is puzzling. In some basic ways, they are truly biting the hand that literally feeds them. Of course - as large a company as they are - they will not feel the pain financially for this decision, but they are indeed inflicting it on many hard working bloggers, author promotion sites, etc.

I am all for eliminating the "scraping" type of sites being discussed that literally list nothing but freebies, but to impact those who generate real income (and traffic) for Amazon? Puzzling and disappointing.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

jimkukral said:


> IYou get a ton of clicks on the freebies, the affiliate cookie is set, then if the clicker buys something else along with their freebie, in the next 24 hours, you get credit for that as well.


Again, why don't they just change that 48-hour cookie to one hour?
The affiliate will get credit for things purchased during that visit, not when the clicker returns the next day to buy the banana slicer.


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## bugman (Nov 5, 2010)

books.heidoc.net will continue! "This note is to inform all authors and readers: Despite any changes, books.heidoc.net will continue with minimal changes. We will continue to announce and promote all limited time free books on our website, by email newsletter, and by RSS feed."


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

> "In addition, notwithstanding the advertising fee rates described on this page or anything to the contrary contained in this Operating Agreement, *if we determine you are primarily promoting free Kindle eBooks *(i.e., eBooks for which the customer purchase price is $0.00), YOU WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO EARN ANY ADVERTISING FEES DURING ANY MONTH IN WHICH YOU MEET THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
> (a) 20,000 or more free Kindle eBooks are ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links; and
> (b) At least 80% of all Kindle eBooks ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links are free Kindle eBooks."


It seems to me that only sites who are primarily promoting free kindle ebooks will be affected, but I wonder how Amazon will define this. If 51% of a site's ebooks are free will they be at risk of losing affiliate payments? Will the freebie sites be told in advance that they fall under this definition? There are a lot of legitimate sites who only promote freebies. And some of them can't generate enough clicks to justify charging for advertising. How will this new rule impact them? Will they disappear, leaving only the big boys who can list paid books, generate ad revenue and avoid the "only promoting freebies" trap?

ETA: Ah! I see part of my questions was answered above.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Again, why don't they just change that 48-hour cookie to one hour?
> The affiliate will get credit for things purchased during that visit, not when the clicker returns the next day to buy the banana slicer.


Because that's screws 99.9% of the other affiliates who don't promote free stuff. This effects a tiny % of affiliates, as they mention in that link someone posted above.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

ecrotty said:


> This is very welcome news to me.
> 
> And it should be to authors as well.
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree.

Especially with this line: _No more "XYZ site was the one that got me all of these downloads#@(#(!!". ... when in reality, it may or may not have been. You should know this data will exist moving forward and ask for it._

The problem is: What promotion site is going to take a chance that listing your free ebook is going to cost them thousands of dollars in affiliate income if these fairly random thresholds are met?

I agree transparency is excellent and the reports should help, but I strongly disagree that this will help authors. KDP Select and/or perma-free has been an excellent marketing tool for authors. That IS going to be severely impacted by this move.


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

summerdaniels71 said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> Especially with this line: _No more "XYZ site was the one that got me all of these downloads#@(#(!!". ... when in reality, it may or may not have been. You should know this data will exist moving forward and ask for it._
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I'm tracking with what you are disagreeing with?

My point was simply that at any given time during a free book promotion an author can inquire (a day later) as to how their sales went for their book.

IE :

You take an ad out site XYZ. Things go well. XYZ was the one that made it happen, hooray!

But how do you really know that? You don't (if the book was free). Today, affiliates can't report this information back to you.

Sure, you can track clicks through URL shortners and the like but you can't definitively say if a free book was purchased or not.

Moving forward, an Amazon affiliate site will be able to supply this information.

That's all I'm talking about. I didn't see that point brought up yet and it's more of an affiliate view of the changes.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

ecrotty said:


> I'm not sure I'm tracking with what you are disagreeing with?
> 
> My point was simply that at any given time during a free book promotion an author can inquire (a day later) as to how their sales went for their book.
> 
> ...


I know what your point was. 

My point is that I think that there is the very real likelihood that many of these sites will simply NOT list free ebooks at all, paid advertisement or not.

It is not worth the risk to thousands of dollars a month of affiliate income to potentially reach those thresholds and then ALL affiliate income is withheld - not just that income generated by the free listings.

No promotions means no tracking or reporting and also equals much less visibility for the authors.

Amazon in essence is making their Top 100 Free lists on their own site the only viable game in town. (In my humble opinion of course, your mileage may vary.)


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

Quiss said:


> Is it possible that the big trad publishers are unhappy with Amazon as millions of freebies cut into their profits? Would Amazon bow to pressure from them?


In fantasy land, I guess.  Considering how often Amazon kicks dirt in the face of trade publishers, do you really want to pretend this is a big conspiracy by the evil Bix Six cabal?


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## J.R. Thomson (Mar 30, 2011)

summerdaniels71 said:


> Not the translation, no.
> 
> I have almost 50,000 followers on my WTRAFSOG page, for example. Let's say I post only 5 free ebooks a day (about 10% of my total daily postings in this example).
> 
> ...


This sounds really depressing and reminds me so much of Google and my many years of playing the game of trying to make money with blogging and Adsense. it was great in the beginning, but is pretty much a nightmare at this point.

Could it be an overly bureaucratic move by some idiot that works at Amazon?


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

summerdaniels71 said:


> I know what your point was.
> 
> My point is that I think that there is the very real likelihood that many of these sites will simply NOT list free ebooks at all, paid advertisement or not.
> 
> ...


Now I understand. Thanks for the expansion.

You may disagree, but I think your position is indeed aligned with mine.

Either you :

- provide a value (or a combination of niche & value... much like yours) and continue to make free a part of this value/niche when & where it makes sense.
- or you don't play in the amazon space with free books.

I see some people overall (there are a lot of places talking about this today) saying Amazon is crazy for making this move.... I disagree.

It's all about value. Spin it however you want but it all comes back to value.


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## J.R. Thomson (Mar 30, 2011)

This thread is a makin' me feel like this


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

RM Prioleau said:


> I got the email today, too. I didn't realize that you still get paid affiliate $$ for free ebooks.


You don't get paid affiliate money for free books. However, as has been said, clicking through the affiliate link sets a cookie, and other purchases made at the site while that cookie is set qualify for the affiliate fee.

Betsy


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

summerdaniels71 said:


> I know what your point was.
> 
> My point is that I think that there is the very real likelihood that many of these sites will simply NOT list free ebooks at all, paid advertisement or not.
> 
> ...


As someone who runs a small site that does a daily free kindle books post, I can say definitely this is true. Even a single post a day with 20 of the best free books being offered that day will put me WELL over the limits. And my site is a small niche one. So anyone who thinks this is just targeting large sites, doesn't have any idea what they are talking about.

Now I can't list them at all, even if I don't make the links "affiliate" links, because my readers may click other affiliate links on my site for non-free kindle content and I'd run the risk of getting credited for the free kindle books also, and put my entire amazon income for the month at risk.

Authors who are saying "I told you so" and otherwise liking this, are ones who hated KDP Select from the beginning. Authors will be less inclined to join KDP select now, because they will have almost no means of promoting their free books, and the KDP Prime fund was never really enough of a benefit for most authors to get them to enroll in Select alone.

As a programmer myself, I know how easy it would be for amazon to set a different cookie expire on certain links, including free kindle books. Instead of this stupidly implemented and not well thought out policy, they could have made it so links for free kindle books set cookies that are session only, or even say 4 hour expire cookies. This would not be hard to do at all, the database query is already being done, it would require only a single additional check on the response from the backend, and a single change to the html headers for when that condition was met.

This would be much wiser, and would directly impact the sites that do nothing but robotically parse for free books with no editorial controls, which I think we all agree are the real bad guys in this area.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

We'll continue to promote free books regardless of this change. Why? Because making affiliate commissions wasn't ever our business model. It was just a tiny bonus. I for one hope the big sites stop promoting free books. Will be great for me.


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

I knew that Select was a losing game with their freebees, but this goes way beyond even that. How does this affect sites like Goodreads? Wattpad?

Seems like it would hit the affiliate marketers (i.e. spammers) the hardest. Not that that is a completely bad thing.


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> Authors who are saying "I told you so" and otherwise liking this, are ones who hated KDP Select from the beginning. Authors will be less inclined to join KDP select now, *because they will have almost no means of promoting their free books*, and the KDP Prime fund was never really enough of a benefit for most authors to get them to enroll in Select alone.


Something just occurred to me...could it be that Amazon plans to charge indies to advertise their freebies and they want to cut out the competition? I know this is wild speculation, but I figure it could be possible. So many sites are making thousands of dollars advertising indie books on Amazon. And why should they make all that money when Amazon can capture that income for themselves?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

MegHarris said:


> Unless I'm misreading that, it seems specifically designed to get rid of "free books" sites.


Thread tl;dr. (Sorry.)

What we're seeing here is a codifying of the behind-the-scenes pressure ENT experienced several months ago. Amazon has already pushed sites like ENT to move away from their focus on free books under threat of losing their Affiliate income. Now the policy is being formally trotted out for all to see.

I'm glad Amazon at least gave sites like ENT a heads-up so that they could change their business model before the policy change was made official.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> We'll continue to promote free books regardless of this change. Why? Because making affiliate commissions wasn't ever our business model. It was just a tiny bonus. I for one hope the big sites stop promoting free books. Will be great for me.


It was never a source of income for me either, not more than a couple dollars a day anyway. I use different link tags to track paid links versus free links, so I know this for a fact.

But now I can't even list the free books, because I DO make some money off paid links from my site, and even linking to the free books puts my income from amazon at risk, even without the affiliate tag.

And I just checked your site....your links are all still affiliate links.

I do see you charge authors to promote their books, but even if sites like mine did that, I'd have to remove ALL amazon affiliate links from my site, to avoid putting my income at risk. It's easier to just say, no more free book linking. And less risky.

And many other sites will start saying the same. And when that happens, and the free ways for KDP Select authors to promote their free days all pretty much go away, the authors will get a lot less for being in Select. And then you will have a lot less authors willing to take you up on your paid promotions.

You haven't thought this out very well IMO.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> It was never a source of income for me either, not more than a couple dollars a day anyway. I use different link tags to track paid links versus free links, so I know this for a fact.
> 
> But now I can't even list the free books, because I DO make some money off paid links from my site, and even linking to the free books puts my income from amazon at risk, even without the affiliate tag.
> 
> ...


Authors will still want free promotion, and will go to those that provide it. That isn't going to change. Our business model isn't ads either.


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## BlankPage (Sep 23, 2012)

_Comment removed due to VS TOS 25/9/2018_


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

It certainly will be interesting to see how things shake out over the next few months. I suspect we'll be seeing more changes at KDP, particularly with Select.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

jimkukral said:


> I don't think so. This is just Amazon quelling the herd of the increasing number of sites that are grabbing a datafeed of the freebie books and blasting it all over the Internet. I just found a new site the other day that does this. I won't list it here, but basically they do exactly what I just said and send an update out every day with hundreds of free books in a list, with their affiliate id added. Their intent is what Angel said. Lead generation. You get a ton of clicks on the freebies, the affiliate cookie is set, then if the clicker buys something else along with their freebie, in the next 24 hours, you get credit for that as well.
> 
> In reality, this will effect probably about 10-20 people who are driving enough traffic to meet the requirements in (a). The rest of us, we don't have to worry about anything.


As one of those probably affected, I think you are looking at hundreds of book blogging and review sites. I suspect all mention of free books will cease, except at sites that charge for advertising and make no Amazon income.

This is a forfeiture penalty - all earnings forfeited each month that "too many" freebies are downloaded. It works out to under 700/day and includes books that are purchased with no affiliate link. If they get to amazon via a link about a NYT bestseller at $10, then buy 5 freebies instead - those 5 count towards the penalty line.

Places like ENT and some big sites may continue due to contracts outside of the usual affiliate agreements (or may close if they can't find other revenue).


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

RM Prioleau said:


> I got the email today, too. I didn't realize that you still get paid affiliate $$ for free ebooks. This obviously doesn't seem to apply to me since my one (and only) freebie promo experience was terribad, and I will never do it again.


You don't (never have). Many other categories of actual sales also don't count (they used an Ipad? their Kindle? a Phone? sorry - no income).


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> I hope the end result of this would be an increase in sites wanting to list paid books (regularly priced or on sale). It seems to me that it's relatively easy to find sites that want to list free books, but a lot harder to find those that want to promote paid books, which often strikes me as odd since, by promoting paid books with an affiliate link, they'd get some income from that.


I list paid books every day.

But the fact is that the traffic pull is the free books. And without that, the traffic to the site will be gone without the free books to draw them in. Small sites depend on the free pull to get their visitors. And that traffic does result in paid book purchases. But a site like mine, listing only paid books, just won't get the traffic to be a significant source of sales for those paid books to be worth spending the time to focus on paid only as a business model.

Doesn't do you any good to have your paid book links on a site that has no traffic to make it worthwhile.

People come to my site to find the free books, but then they see the quality 99c and $2.99-$4.99 titles, but buy them in less quantities.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I don't think this means the end of freebies, but it does put a big dent in them as a tool for affiliate sites. Once the new reports come out, they'll have a much better sense of the ratio between freebies and paids. Keeping the paid above 20% will be a challenging game.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

dgaughran said:


> It's hard to say how all this is going to play out, but it appears to be the latest change which reduces the power of free.
> 
> In March we had the Great Algo Change which reduced the value of freeloads on the Popularity List to one tenth of a sale (they had been equal to a paid sale before that). Several months ago Amazon started experimenting with hiding the Top 100 Free behind a tab. And a couple of months ago they started putting pressure on sites like ENT to feature less freebies.
> 
> ...


I think you have a good point. For those of us who have wanted to switch from free promotions to paid promotions, it could have advantages in causing more sites to feature those. There are a couple of threads floating around discussing how few sites feature reduce prices.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm glad to know this ahead of time. All my books are currently in Select, but their three months is over in March, except for one. I had already unchecked the automatic re-enroll, but I have a free promo coming up next week just before March 1st. If mine didn't do well, I was going to leave them out of Select, but if it did well, I was going to sign them back up to get the borrows. Now I have a lot to think about. In January, I made about $800 in borrows. Will I be able to make that up in paid sales through Kobo, B&N and other sites? Probably not.  

Otoh, I had approached a big blog about some kind of ad for my omnibus, but at $9.99, it didn't fall into any categories. I literally could not buy an ad. I was given another opportunity at the site which was very nice of them to do, but it wasn't the same as an ad. Maybe some of those sites will start to offer ads for more expensive books? I mean, sure, my book is $9.99 but there are over 320,000 words, so I think it's fairly priced. The reader gets a five dollar discount over individual prices, and I don't have to worry about the reader only buying one book and then forgetting about the next. 

A lot of us now have boxed sets, but unless you price them at $5.99 or less (which, don't know about you guys, but it would really cut into my income), you can't promote them anywhere.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> But is the free traffic quality traffic? If a site that lists paid books gets 100 visitors a day and one with free books gets 1000 visitors a day, if only one in ten of the freebie downloaders turns into a buyer, aren't those two sites on a level playing field?


If I would only see a drop of 10% in traffic from removing free, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But it will be more than that, and at that low rate, and at the income drop from it at that point, the site isn't even worth the hour a day I would spend on it.

And all to fix a problem which really doesn't exist.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

Didn't read the whole thread, but would it not be possible to list free books but not put affiliate codes in their links (and only in paid links)? Or would that not work for some reason?


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

glutton said:


> Didn't read the whole thread, but would it not be possible to list free books but not put affiliate codes in their links (and only in paid links)? Or would that not work for some reason?


But if they click any other affiliate links on the site that do have the affiliate code, and then come back and click on free books, those DO count. Amazon customer service just confirmed that so called "indirect" free kindle ebook "orders" will count the same as if they were directly linked with the affiliate code.

So for most of the sites, that do a combination of paid and free, its just too risky to have the free books on the site and risk them breaching the 20k and 80% ratio and putting all our affiliate income at risk. This is especially true of those of us who run multiple sites (non-ebook related), we risk the amazon income from all our sources.

Too risky, for too little payback. What little motivation existed to run a quick quality small niche blog that featured high quality free books over quantity is wiped out by the risk involved now.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Just list free books without an affiliate link. Problem solved. Or don't. People will still crave freebies. We plan on keeping giving it to them.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

summerdaniels71 said:


> My point is that I think that there is the very real likelihood that many of these sites will simply NOT list free ebooks at all, paid advertisement or not.
> 
> It is not worth the risk to thousands of dollars a month of affiliate income to potentially reach those thresholds and then ALL affiliate income is withheld - not just that income generated by the free listings.


+1 (sadly)


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Level playing fields are a myth. The objective in a competitive market is to tilt the field in your favor. That's why people have been giving away free books. It affects the popularity list, and no ranked list is a level playing field.

Question for an affiliate: Do you get daily reports on how much you are earning? Do you have the real time means to monitor the two conditions set down in the Amazon policy?


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> Just list free books without an affiliate link. Problem solved. Or don't. People will still crave freebies. We plan on keeping giving it to them.


problem not solved.

Affiliate program customer service confirmed that indirect free kindle ebook purchases will also count, so if someone buys a 99c book from my site, then 10 free books (even if the links have no affiliate code) they will count towards the rule limits.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

This is a side effect of not looking at connecting data.  Manager X sees a million free downloads a day from ten different promo sites and wants to put a stop to it because they are pulling in $$ from non-related purchases.  Purchases Manager X assumes would have been made anyway so why is he paying these websites affiliate dollars?

Author does a give away and sees thousands of books go out.  Over the next 30 days they see 1-10% of those freeloads turn into direct secondary sales.

Manager X never sees these direct sales are tied to 30 day old affiliate sales.  Manager X doesn't care because his task it simply to reduce non-related affiliate dollars and all he sees is that 24hour cookie.

Manager Y, who is in charge of e-book sales, looks to his people and asks, "Why are e-book sales down 1-10%?"

Manager X gets recognized for saving the company a million dollars.  Manager Y gets called out for fifty million in reduced revenue, so he changes the terms of KDP from 70% to 50% unless you sign up for Select.  Yeah he looses a few authors, but he stemmed the losses Manager X created.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

jimkukral said:


> Just list free books without an affiliate link. Problem solved. Or don't. People will still crave freebies. We plan on keeping giving it to them.


this doesn't work. It sill counts (unless you are not an affiliate at all - then you have adsense or paid placement as a business model).


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

SBJones said:


> This is a side effect of not looking at connecting data. Manager X sees a million free downloads a day from ten different promo sites and wants to put a stop to it because they are pulling in $$ from non-related purchases. Purchases Manager X assumes would have been made anyway so why is he paying these websites affiliate dollars?


You can't lease a copier in most corporations without a half dozen people being involved. What makes you think a single manager has this sort of power? (And I'm not even being funny, here. I am currently pulling my hair out trying to replace a copier at my location and I have to deal with six *different people * in *three different departments* and this has been dragging on for FOUR MONTHS).


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

wxwalsh said:


> Amazon customer service just confirmed that so called "indirect" free kindle ebook "orders" will count the same as if they were directly linked with the affiliate code.


Do you have a link to this?

Betsy


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

SBJones said:


> This is a side effect of not looking at connecting data. Manager X sees a million free downloads a day from ten different promo sites and wants to put a stop to it because they are pulling in $$ from non-related purchases. Purchases Manager X assumes would have been made anyway so why is he paying these websites affiliate dollars?


snipped the rest, if this was the case, Amazon would have just switched to session cookies for the entire program.

The whole selling point Amazon has had is the 24 hour window for indirect purchases. So "Manager X" is fully aware that probably half or more of the income paid to affiliates is for items not originally linked to, books or not, and regardless of whether the original item was "bought" or just "browsed" and thus non-income generating.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> Affiliate program customer service confirmed that indirect free kindle ebook purchases will also count, so if someone buys a 99c book from my site, then 10 free books (even if the links have no affiliate code) they will count towards the rule limits.


Unless your site generates 20,000 free book sales, you don't have to worry. I sympathize with those sites that do have those kinds of numbers, but if the end result is to reduce the number of free books out there, I'm all for it. I agree that Ammy will experience an exodus from Select. I also think we'll start seeing 99-cents as the new free.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> problem not solved.
> 
> Affiliate program customer service confirmed that indirect free kindle ebook purchases will also count, so if someone buys a 99c book from my site, then 10 free books (even if the links have no affiliate code) they will count towards the rule limits.


If that's true then you're right. I will say this... if your business model is to make a living off of amazon affiliate commissions... then you're in trouble. I've been in the affiliate business for over 10 years. I've met affiliates of all kinds. Millionaires, medium sized players, small-time players. I've met, or know, about 20 people who make significant income off of Amazon as an affiliate. It's mostly big players like deal sites who drive millions and millions of users monthly. The margins for amazon are simply way too low for most affiliates, unless you can drive massive volume.

And I define significant income as any monthly amount that could pay all your monthly bills. That's my definition. Others make it much higher. It's time to diversify your business model. Even the big sites.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Do you have a link to this?
> 
> Betsy


Was an email reply from customer service.



> So, I emailed Amazon this morning. Asked them will there be any distinction made if the 20,000 books come from links to paid products (since we cannot control if people go on to download free books)
> 
> The response:
> "In answer to your question about whether or not these rules apply if purchases are made through a link to a free e-book or not, please know that it does not matter how the purchase is made, the rules will apply either way."


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> If that's true then you're right. I will say this... if your business model is to make a living off of amazon affiliate commissions... then you're in trouble. I've been in the affiliate business for over 10 years. I've met affiliates of all kinds. Millionaires, medium sized players, small-time players. I've met, or know, about 20 people who make significant income off of Amazon as an affiliate. It's mostly big players like deal sites who drive millions and millions of users monthly. The margins for amazon are simply way too low for most affiliates, unless you can drive massive volume.
> 
> And I define significant income as any monthly amount that could pay all your monthly bills. That's my definition. Others make it much higher. It's time to diversify your business model. Even the big sites.


Well count me as one of those 20 you now know. Affiliate program income accounts for 75% of my total income, easily, and yea, I could pay all my bills off that if I needed to.

It's not nearly as hard as you make it out to be, but I'm all for more people thinking it is, makes it easier on the rest of us.


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

Two things:

1. I'm proud to say this may be the longest thread I've ever started here. Woot!


2. I wonder if you could attack a competitor by using a botnet to download tens of thousands of free books using their affiliate ID, and eventually drive them out of business? Imagine targeted attacks on big affiliates.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> Well count me as one of those 20 you now know. Affiliate program income accounts for 75% of my total income, easily, and yea, I could pay all my bills off that if I needed to.
> 
> It's not nearly as hard as you make it out to be, but I'm all for more people thinking it is, makes it easier on the rest of us.


21! Nice to meet you!


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> problem not solved.
> 
> Affiliate program customer service confirmed that indirect free kindle ebook purchases will also count, so if someone buys a 99c book from my site, then 10 free books (even if the links have no affiliate code) they will count towards the rule limits.


Am I the only one this makes no sense to? If there is no affiliate link associated with the download, then how would they know it came from you?

I think what the customer service person probably meant was that if they click from your site to a PAID book with your affiliate link and then happen to download some freebies, that counts "against" you.

Sometimes customer service over there doesn't really understand he question you are asking.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

Fredster said:


> 2. I wonder if you could attack a competitor by using a botnet to download tens of thousands of free books using their affiliate ID, and eventually drive them out of business? Imagine targeted attacks on big affiliates.


Yep, probably&#8230; very diabolical.


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

I hoping that the sites who have built up big membership on the basis of free, switch to 99c promotions and as someone else said, 99c becomes the new free.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

wxwalsh said:


> Was an email reply from customer service.


Thanks, I missed it if you posted earlier; trying to do five things at once.

Betsy


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

leedobbins said:


> Yep, probably&#8230; very diabolical.


Not only unethical, but illegal and bad karma-able! People are doing this now with Google and backlinks. They buy a ton of bad/spammy links to competitors sites. This is why Google had to put a disavow links tool into webmaster tools.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

leedobbins said:


> Am I the only one this makes no sense to? If there is no affiliate link associated with the download, then how would they know it came from you?
> 
> I think what the customer service person probably meant was that if they click from your site to a PAID book with your affiliate link and then happen to download some freebies, that counts "against" you.
> 
> Sometimes customer service over there doesn't really understand he question you are asking.


Sorry, you don't seem to understand how the program works.

When someone clicks a link on my site, say for a $2.99 book. If that person clicks through, a cookie is set in the user's browser for 24 hours. Any item they add to their shopping cart, or purchase, in the next 24 hours gets credited to the affiliate code in that link. If they buy 20 free kindle books that day, whether from my site or that they found on their own, those 20 books are credited to that affiliate account. Meaning that it is possible for a high volume site with no free books, or very very few free books actually linked on their site, to get credit for free books bought by their users indirectly.

They did understand it, and answered it showing they knew what we were asking.

Affiliate customer service is better than generic CS.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

Fredster said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1. I'm proud to say this may be the longest thread I've ever started here. Woot!
> 
> 2. I wonder if you could attack a competitor by using a botnet to download tens of thousands of free books using their affiliate ID, and eventually drive them out of business? Imagine targeted attacks on big affiliates.


Some guy just posted the other day that "someone posted a link on a p*rn site" and amazon closed his account (now, I suspect there was more to it, but one link would be an OA violation).


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> Sorry, you don't seem to understand how the program works.
> 
> When someone clicks a link on my site, say for a $2.99 book. If that person clicks through, a cookie is set in the user's browser for 24 hours. Any item they add to their shopping cart, or purchase, in the next 24 hours gets credited to the affiliate code in that link. If they buy 20 free kindle books that day, whether from my site or that they found on their own, those 20 books are credited to that affiliate account. Meaning that it is possible for a high volume site with no free books, or very very few free books actually linked on their site, to get credit for free books bought by their users indirectly.
> 
> ...


Have two affiliate accounts. One for free and one for normal. Problem solved.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

wxwalsh said:


> If they buy 20 free kindle books that day, whether from my site or that they found on their own, those 20 books are credited to that affiliate account. Meaning that it is possible for a high volume site with no free books, or very very few free books actually linked on their site, to get credit for free books bought by their users indirectly.


That's so nonsensical to punish affiliates for when you put it that way, any chance they'll realize how nonsensical it is and adjust it?


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> Have two affiliate accounts. One for free and one for normal. Problem solved.


And grounds for Amazon to terminate you completely.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

jimkukral said:


> Not only unethical, but illegal and bad karma-able! People are doing this now with Google and backlinks. They buy a ton of bad/spammy links to competitors sites. This is why Google had to put a disavow links tool into webmaster tools.


I know, btw I wasn't advocating doing it.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> Sorry, you don't seem to understand how the program works.
> 
> When someone clicks a link on my site, say for a $2.99 book. If that person clicks through, a cookie is set in the user's browser for 24 hours. Any item they add to their shopping cart, or purchase, in the next 24 hours gets credited to the affiliate code in that link. If they buy 20 free kindle books that day, whether from my site or that they found on their own, those 20 books are credited to that affiliate account. Meaning that it is possible for a high volume site with no free books, or very very few free books actually linked on their site, to get credit for free books bought by their users indirectly.
> 
> ...


Yes, thats exactly how I thought it worked.

So then if you removed the affiliate links from your free books, those wouldn't "count" and you could still list free book, therefore get the traffic from them hopefully without the penalty. No?


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> Sorry, you don't seem to understand how the program works.
> 
> When someone clicks a link on my site, say for a $2.99 book. If that person clicks through, a cookie is set in the user's browser for 24 hours. Any item they add to their shopping cart, or purchase, in the next 24 hours gets credited to the affiliate code in that link. If they buy 20 free kindle books that day, whether from my site or that they found on their own, those 20 books are credited to that affiliate account. *Meaning that it is possible for a high volume site with no free books, or very very few free books actually linked on their site, to get credit for free books bought by their users indirectly.*
> 
> ...


Yes, but according to the rules they would not lose their affiliate income unless it is determined that they *primarily promote free ebooks.* So even if the total number of free ebooks downloaded through your affliate link was over 20,000, you would not lose your affliate money if you don't primarily promote free ebooks.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

leedobbins said:


> Yes, thats exactly how I thought it worked.
> 
> So then if you removed the affiliate links from your free books, those wouldn't "count" and you could still list free book, therefore get the traffic from them hopefully without the penalty. No?


No, go back and reread it 

If they click any other link of yours that has your affiliate code in it in the 24 hours prior, those free books are credited to you.

Or even worse...

Say they click on some other site's affiliate code, say late last night. Then this morning, come to my site and click through and buy a massive number of free kindle books (that I post without an affiliate link).

That poor schmuck just got hundreds of free ebooks credited to his account. I've seen some of these hardcore free book collectors go and download 200 or 300 books in a single session. Nuts, but it happens.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

SunHi Mistwalker said:


> Yes, but according to the rules they would not lose their affiliate income unless it is determined that they *primarily promote free ebooks.* So even if the total number of free ebooks downloaded through your affliate link was over 20,000, you would not lose your affliate money if you don't primarily promote free ebooks.


They have said that the program limits are how they make that determination.....


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## Lisa J. Yarde (Jul 15, 2010)

Fredster said:


> Two things:
> 2. I wonder if you could attack a competitor by using a botnet to download tens of thousands of free books using their affiliate ID, and eventually drive them out of business? Imagine targeted attacks on big affiliates.


There's a book just waiting to be written, somewhere


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

Lisa J. Yarde said:


> There's a book just waiting to be written, somewhere


Yeah, that was my first thought, too. 

(I also keep thinking about how awful it is for that poor girl whose body was found in the water tank that supplied a hotel...and how awesome the situation would be in a story)


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Hey, I just checked my Associates report. I have made close to $10.00 this month.

In particular, I made 19 cents, because someone went through my link to purchase "Taken by the Lion God (reluctant monster sex fantasy)."

19 cents!!! Mine, all mine!!! 

ETA: I don't know how this affects indies, or more importantly, how this affects me. I'm moving off the Select/freebies because I can't take the rollercoaster.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

Dalya said:


> In particular, I made 19 cents, because someone went through my link to purchase "Taken by the Lion God (reluctant monster sex fantasy)."


_Reluctant monster sex fantasy?_

As in ... "zXynap didn't really want to impregnate the well built earthling, but the peer pressure got to him. Being made fun of for only having six ears gets kind of _hard to hear_ after awhile."


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

summerdaniels71 said:


> _Reluctant monster sex fantasy?_
> 
> As in ... "zXynap didn't really want to impregnate the well built earthling, but the peer pressure got to him. Being made fun of for only having six ears gets kind of _hard to hear_ after awhile."


Whatever happened to Enthusiastic Monster Sex Fantasy?

(And I don't mean to disparage the book or author, who is likely one of our own, I'd wager. Merely pointing out that it gives me joy to get 19 cents from something subversive and so charmingly named!)


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Whatever happened to Enthusiastic Monster Sex Fantasy?
> 
> (And I don't mean to disparage the book or author, who is likely one of our own, I'd wager. Merely pointing out that it gives me joy to get 19 cents from something subversive and so charmingly named!)


Oh - I knew what the author meant ... it was just more fun my way.


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

Select needs refreshing. Two for ones, maybe?


Joe


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

Fredster said:


> I don't know how many here are Amazon Associates, but I know a lot of the big ebook promotion sites are. Amazon just sent out some operating agreement changes that go into effect March 1. The one that jumped out at me is pasted below.
> 
> (Mods, if this breaks the WHOA policy, please delete with my apologies)
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm dense but I don't understand this. Does it mean that we won't be entitled to the five free days of advertising? KDP select won't be an option anymore because we'll get nothing from it? I hate changes and this one looks really bad.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2013)

Beatriz said:


> Maybe I'm dense but I don't understand this. Does it mean that we won't be entitled to the five free days of advertising? KDP select won't be an option anymore because we'll get nothing from it? I hate changes and this one looks really bad.


Select and the Affiliate program are two different things. This has nothing to do with Select.

The concern is that WEBSITES that are used to promote free days will be impacted, because Amazon is cracking down on sites that do nothing but promote free books.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

koland said:


> Many other categories of actual sales also don't count (they used an Ipad? their Kindle? a Phone? sorry - no income).


Oh wow! I had no idea.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Select and the Affiliate program are two different things. This has nothing to do with Select.
> 
> The concern is that WEBSITES that are used to promote free days will be impacted, because Amazon is cracking down on sites that do nothing but promote free books.


If it was only the ones who do nothing BUT promote free books that were effected......they said that was the intent, but the way they implemented it as a much wider area of effect.


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## horse_girl (Apr 9, 2010)

This explains the FB post by Authors on the Cheap (The-Cheap.net).

I don't earn much from the Associates program anyway, but I can see where sites the one I mentioned could be impacted.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

leedobbins said:


> Am I the only one this makes no sense to? If there is no affiliate link associated with the download, then how would they know it came from you?
> 
> I think what the customer service person probably meant was that if they click from your site to a PAID book with your affiliate link and then happen to download some freebies, that counts "against" you.
> 
> Sometimes customer service over there doesn't really understand the question you are asking.


Customer service there makes up answers that toe the line of what they want you to do. I've gotten so much erroneous information that way, I always go up the chain until I can speak to someone at corporate.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> You can't lease a copier in most corporations without a half dozen people being involved. What makes you think a single manager has this sort of power? (And I'm not even being funny, here. I am currently pulling my hair out trying to replace a copier at my location and I have to deal with six *different people * in *three different departments* and this has been dragging on for FOUR MONTHS).


I know they have this kind of power. I worked for Dell and I did it all from fielding tech support calls to consumers, to high end government and military installations. I worked in their catalog sales department and watched on more than one occasion where responsibility for something was shifted to a new group and the old group was praised for their cost saving ingenuity and the new group got yelled at for opex increases. If a manager can show that a change anywhere will result in $$, it will get implemented and it's up to other management to reverse it or come up with something else if it affects them.

You can't get your copier replaced because that will generate a cost event that none of the six people in three departments want associated with them. It could literally cost them their job, and they have no reason to bet their job on your satisfaction with the product. You buying a new item from them is the guy in Sale's job, not theirs. I know it's wrong, you know it's wrong, but that's the game they have to play to stay employed, and they will get their quarterly bonus because their replacement numbers are low. The first person you talked to had the power to replace your copier.

So yes, I fully believe that this change is being done without a full audit of what it will truly cost the company. This is exactly what happens when internal groups are siloed from each other. That 20,000 number is pathetically low. There are authors who exceed that in a single day of a free run and they want you to be under that for a month? 80% or more can't be free? 80% of what? Is a $1000 affiliate sale weighted the same as a 99c affiliate sale? If that's true then there is more proof of management gone full retard.

Anyway, rant off.

The immediate effect I see of this is making the value of a free download increase. It's clearly a policy put in place to lower the amount of free downloads from affiliates. It won't take 10,000 downloads to hit the top 100. It will take less, how much less will be directly proportional to the reduction of downloads this policy influences. Getting those downloads will be more expensive in terms of having to buy and ad and the time increase of promoting as the websites change their own policies in response.

For authors, this will impact the bottom 80% or so the most. The authors without large fan bases, without lots of books who pretty much rely on being able to give away 100 books for each one bought. Their numbers will go down and their costs will go up.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

leedobbins said:


> So then if you removed the affiliate links from your free books, those wouldn't "count" and you could still list free book, therefore get the traffic from them hopefully without the penalty. No?


No. It's all about the 24-hour cookie that wxwalsh mentioned. The first time you click over to Amazon through an affiliate link, the affiliate identifier is taken from the URL and stored in the 24-hour cookie. From that point on, any purchase you make on Amazon gets credited to the affiliate identifier in the cookie (for up to 24 hours). It works like this:

* On KindleBoards, you click a link with the Kindleboards-20 affiliate ID.
* Amazon stores the ID in a 24-hour browser cookie.
* You leave Amazon without making a purchase.
* Back on KindleBoards, you click another link that does not have an affiliate ID.
* At Amazon, nothing changes because you did not pass an affiliate ID on the URL, but you still have that browser cookie.
* You buy a free book. Amazon counts that book as a Kindleboards-20 sale because the affiliate cookie is still set.

The only way to "clear" the affiliate identifier is to delete the cookie from your browser or wait 24 hours before going back to Amazon.

Also, most affiliate programs make it so "the last affiliate wins." I'm not sure if Amazon works this way, but usually, the affiliate cookie is reset whenever an affiliate identifier is passed on the URL. That means the most recent affiliate link determines who gets credit for the sale. It also means the 24-hour clock restarts every time you click a link with an affiliate ID on it.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

Personally, I think it's great. We haven't had a good disruption in a while and things were getting boring. I'm sorry some people will lose a revenue stream but those people also have a BIG opportunity to adapt and even thrive. Disruptions favor the bold and inventive.

I also don't think it will weaken Select. I believe it will strengthen it. A freebie will now have to work to stand out. A paid book will now have to work to stand out. And there's still an easy way for Zon customers to get free books--by getting a Prime subscription.

I was well aboard the freebie train last year but after seeing 50,000 free books every single day, day after day, I jumped off. I figured this was a time to keep the head down and just survive the purge. Now there's a real direction laid in front of authors--actually try to sell your book.

I talked with the Kobo affiliate manager recently and apparently the reason hardly anyone knows there is a Kobo affiliate program is that there is a belief inside the company that the 8 percent paid to an affiliate is an 8 percent cut in the profit they made on the book sale. (With no concern whatsoever for the increased volume of sales likely to result from a big grassroots sales force.) Let's see if any of the sleepy competitors see this as an opening--none of them have been real serious about freebies or boosting indies in any appreciable way.

I think everything Amazon does is calculated, even cunning, and devastatingly brilliant. For _them_. Let's face it, they've delivered the knockout punch to all their competition. They can do what they want for at least the next few years. When you board the train, you're riding their rails. But they have "taken" nothing from no one. It wasn't ours to have.


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Is there a quick and easy way to see how many books are in Select?

I ask because it would be interesting to track over the next three or four months.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

As "queen" of the author advertising of The-Cheap et al. (we're working on that...) we were already in a retooling process and the timing couldn't be better.

In March, we are opening up our new domain, and streamlining all of our digital properties. Our core group of readers is coming with us, very excited because we are using participation points (Piggy Points) to give them exclusive access to things like ARCs from our favorite authors up to 2 weeks before a book comes out in exchange for HONEST reviews. When I as an author looked into getting my book up on places like Netgalley, I was quoted $400 for up to 5 books. 

I also started a new group of authors who will be writing content on THEIR schedule for the site, advertising their books at the bottom. 

We were a deal priced book community long before the freebie train was ever built or left the station. I've run the numbers in our affiliate reports. Our deal priced books make us more than the freebie posts. The freebie posts are great for traffic, but it's traffic that doesn't buy anything. The readers on our site who are there to buy a book came to find a book to buy, and maybe picked up a freebie or two. But guess which book is at the TOP of their TBR pile? I can tell you right now, it's not the books they didn't pay a dime for.

As an author, it is tough to hear everything is changing...again.... but then I look at my Freebie run Jan 1-3. 40,000+ free downloads 300 sales, 500 borrows. Where did Amazon make their money? They didn't, because they PAID for those 500 borrows too. Nearly same last year I did a one day free run, had 10,000 downloads, and a total of 250 sales and borrows combined. I wonder how much higher their ebook sales are just for the bestseller list now that the freebies aren't right next door?

The reality is Kindle WON the device war. They don't need to convince readers to "switch over." And now, they're going after Apple's tablet market share. The days of free to entice people to enter the Kindle market is over and now they need to be what they're doing, great customer service, great content, and great quality of delivery. They were voted #1 customer service just recently, over Apple and other competitors. I have a Nook group of thousands of readers that complain daily about problems with their devices, access to their digital library, and not getting any help in store on EXISTING devices, just puppets in polo shirts willing to rattle off the spec sheets of the newest Nook.

Besides, $0.99 works so much better for everyone all around! Authors make money, sites still make money, and readers have less clutter in their digital libraries of freebies they're not reading.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Is there a quick and easy way to see how many books are in Select?


The page on the Kindle where you can actually borrow a book used to have the total at the top. It's been so long, I don't know how to get there again, so I can't point you . Sorry.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Terrence OBrien said:


> The page on the Kindle where you can actually borrow a book used to have the total at the top. It's been so long, I don't know how to get there again, so I can't point you . Sorry.


They've changed it, but I think I found the right page. Just under 300K books.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_14?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=prime+eligible+kindle+ebooks&sprefix=prime+eligible%2Cdigital-text%2C233

Then there's this notice from Amazon.

With your Amazon Prime membership, you can borrow this book for free from your Kindle device.

*With Prime, Kindle owners can choose from over 270,000 titles to borrow for free - including all seven Harry Potter books and more than 100 current and former New York Times best sellers. Borrow a book as frequently as once per month, with no due dates. Learn more about Kindle Owners' Lending Library. 
*


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> They've changed it, but I think I found the right page. Just under 300K books.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_14?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=prime+eligible+kindle+ebooks&sprefix=prime+eligible%2Cdigital-text%2C233
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

So they made it so freebies don't work so well as free advertising, now they're quietly smothering the places where you can promote freebies to death too. I wonder how the hand that feeds tastes to them?

Is there really any good reason for my to renew my Select status in April at this point, assuming I go to Smashwords?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

I think a lot of us have been leaving over the past few months. I rather suspect that Amazon is going to come up with something new, because Select is no longer holding on to a lot of authors who watch what is happening why. Or they may just leave it for the authors who don't.

It will be interesting to see.


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## horse_girl (Apr 9, 2010)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> As "queen" of the author advertising of The-Cheap et al. (we're working on that...) we were already in a retooling process and the timing couldn't be better.


Thanks, Elizabeth. I love your advertising opportunities, btw


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

JRTomlin said:


> I think a lot of us have been leaving over the past few months. I rather suspect that Amazon is going to come up with something new, because Select is no longer holding on to a lot of authors who watch what is happening why. Or they may just leave it for the authors who don't.
> 
> It will be interesting to see.


I think they still need the free borrows as part of selling the Prime package. I'd be very surprised if they didn't come up with something to sweeten the pot.


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## katiemoe (Feb 1, 2013)

Crap. Finally got the nerve to dip my toes in the promo pool and see what it was like, worked to do all my submissions, lined up all my ducks, but my promo is scheduled for after March 1st. So it may not even get listed after all that. Timing is everything. At least my expectations will be set appropriately low.


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## *Sandy Harper* (Jun 22, 2011)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> I just got an e-mail about this from Amazon and I didn't bother opening it, since I figured it was some technical point that wouldn't affect me. I'm REALLY glad you posted the news here, though.
> ..


I did the same thing but I am not much into associate pgm.. Good luck to all those who are..


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

katiemoe said:


> Crap. Finally got the nerve to dip my toes in the promo pool and see what it was like, worked to do all my submissions, lined up all my ducks, but my promo is scheduled for after March 1st. So it may not even get listed after all that. Timing is everything. At least my expectations will be set appropriately low.


I'd imagine that has probably happened with a lot of people. There wasn't much notice.

I know Amazon does what is best for Amazon and I accept that change is inevitable. They're innovative. They do some things that work wonders and crush the competition. They try others that have results that don't work for them and they rescind them. Those that can adapt will forge onward.



> With Prime, Kindle owners can choose from over 270,000 titles to borrow for free - including all seven Harry Potter books and more than 100 current and former New York Times best sellers. Borrow a book as frequently as once per month, with no due dates. Learn more about Kindle Owners' Lending Library.


Wow, I didn't realize it was _that_ many.


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

I think that it is about time that Amazon did something to limit the number of free Kindle books. It is hurting Prime since why join Prime if you can get plenty of free Kindle books? Free books are hurting our paid sales and borrows.

*Good for you, Amazon!*


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## KevinMcLaughlin (Nov 11, 2010)

I know there has been some thoughts posted in this thread that it's about the affiliates, not about the free books. That the reason for these changes has been affiliates abusing the system to send masses of people to Amazon laden with their affiliate cookie, hoping some of them also buy other items in the 24 hour period the cookie is live.

While I'm sure that is going on, I'm not as confident that's the reasoning behind these changes. Why? Simply look at what is free on Amazon, and look at what they singled out for the change. There are free MP3 files and videos on Amazon, but neither of these categories was listed. Just Kindle books. So if you want to run the "try to make my cookies work for me" plan, a "Prime TV" site listing all the hot new videos free to Prime members would work great. Because you send them to watch via affiliate links, you get a slice of anything else they buy while they are there. And hey, they're Prime members - you know they shop Amazon... (If someone is not already doing this, I'd be stunned.)

So it's not just book sites using free to work the cookies.

But it's just free ebooks that are being targeted.

Why?

Answer: Amazon has crunched the numbers, and determined that the raw number of free books being given away is undermining their sales of paid books.

We've seen Amazon reducing the effectiveness of free giveaways from Select through the last 3/4 of 2012. Select giveaway periods went from "OMG!" easy to something that required a lot more effort as Amazon made a series of tweaks that radically depressed the value of free books on popularity. The predictable result: a lot of writers pulled their books from the Select program. Some serious writers kept their works in Select, but had to work a lot harder to get the same results (and in general, their books needed to be a lot better to get those results than had been true).

But we still had huge websites which advertised free ebooks to tens, even hundreds of thousands of people. Those resulted in tens of thousands of downloads of many free book writers advertised on those sites.

I feel confident saying that not every free book given away is a lost sale. It's not a one to one ratio. People who buy books don't generally see a freebie and then say "oh, I guess I won't spend five bucks on a book this week, since I already have one".

But at some point, those downloads begin eroding sales. If a consumer downloads ten free books this week, has ten books in a "to be read" pile, then that user is less likely to buy more books before at least checking those out. Might still, if a favorite author releases something new. But might be less likely to browse.

Bottom line is, Amazon saw the number of free books they gave away impacting their sales. They saw it last year, shortly after they released the Select program. And they made changes in 2012 to curb the effect of free, both reducing the churn on the popularity list and moving some of the more serious writers out of Select, reducing the number of free books given.

This year, they're attacking the systems through which information about free books is disseminated. They're reducing the likelihood that tens of thousands of readers will download any given free book by making it harder for hundreds of thousands of potential readers to hear about the freebie - because sites relying on affiliate revenue for income will be forced to reduce the number of free ebooks they market to readers.

The net result will be a lot less free ebooks given out. Which will make it much harder for Select freebie days to have value, because it is not the *rank* you reach with a Select giveaway that matters - it is the raw number of books you give. If the #1 free slot is reached by giving away 50,000 copies today, and three months from now it's reached by giving away 10,000 copies, then the impact of reaching #1 free on sales after the book goes off free will be enormously diminished.

For most writers, this won't change the value of Select at all. I did a Select free run last summer, had 3000 downloads without using any advertising on any of these sites - mostly used Twitter, and friends on Twitter, to spread the word. I saw boosted sales after the free giveaway was done. This level of boost will still be possible, even likely for a writer who works at it. What will be impacted is those writers who were used to getting greatly increased visibility by giving away tens of thousands of copies, through use of paid adverts on various sites. If that was your model, it's probably time to go looking for a new one.


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## katiemoe (Feb 1, 2013)

This a good point. I've been a reluctant camper to try the free promo program, but just gave in and wanted to give it a try. Had to at least experience it. I just did all my submissions to various websites for a March 12/13 promo slot and was about to buy some ads. I guess I can assume I may not get listed very much, if at all.  But I can see if I can get some results by just working twitter and facebook. I'm disappointed at the timing of the Amazon change, but maybe my first promo won't be a total disaster if I just decide it is not about all those sites that promote free books, but just what I can do directly leading up to and on those days.

I also would like to see $.99 become the new "free".

I'm looking forward to see how all the shifts shake out in the next several weeks.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

If Amazon determined the free books from select were hurting their overall sales of books, they wouldn't need some cloak and dagger routine. They'd simply take away the use of free days with select.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

KevinMcLaughlin said:


> For most writers, this won't change the value of Select at all. I did a Select free run last summer, had 3000 downloads without using any advertising on any of these sites - mostly used Twitter, and friends on Twitter, to spread the word. I saw boosted sales after the free giveaway was done. This level of boost will still be possible, even likely for a writer who works at it. What will be impacted is those writers who were used to getting greatly increased visibility by giving away tens of thousands of copies, through use of paid adverts on various sites. If that was your model, it's probably time to go looking for a new one.


You assume that the authors are the sources for the how the sites get the free books to list. You have no idea how many of those downloads were from sites like mine because you have no idea if you were being promoted on them anyway. We look for high quality books that are currently free, and authors submitting their books is one way we find them, but far from being the biggest source. I do my own research, and find most of them on my own.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Adam Pepper said:


> If Amazon determined the free books from select were hurting their overall sales of books, they wouldn't need some cloak and dagger routine. They'd simply take away the use of free days with select.


And lose everyone from the program.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

They don't want to kill free books, they just want to control them.


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## KevinMcLaughlin (Nov 11, 2010)

wxwalsh said:


> You assume that the authors are the sources for the how the sites get the free books to list. You have no idea how many of those downloads were from sites like mine because you have no idea if you were being promoted on them anyway. We look for high quality books that are currently free, and authors submitting their books is one way we find them, but far from being the biggest source. I do my own research, and find most of them on my own.


Well, where were you when I did my Select run, then? I know you didn't list me - I've got scads of Google Alerts set up. 

OK, seriously - that's a good point. But what percentage of the 270,000 Kindle books going free every month get picked up that way? That means 90,000 Kindle books go free from Select every month. Which means about 15,000 Select books are free on any given day. I don't think more than a few percent of those are getting "free pickup marketing" from affiliate sites.

For most writers who've been using Select without paying for adspace to promote it, this isn't going to have serious impact. For people who were getting high end download rates (either from paying for ads or from the pickup marketing you mention), this is going to hurt downloads and therefore followup sales.


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## KevinMcLaughlin (Nov 11, 2010)

Adam Pepper said:


> If Amazon determined the free books from select were hurting their overall sales of books, they wouldn't need some cloak and dagger routine. They'd simply take away the use of free days with select.


They don't want to get rid of Select; they like having hundreds of thousands more books than any other retailer. Likewise, they don't want to get rid of free ebooks - they want some books free. They just want to reduce the raw numbers of free books given away.

The best way to reduce the number of free books given away is to reduce the means people have to hear about them. Thus, the attack on freebie affiliate sites. Make it unprofitable to advertise too many free books, and the number of ad spaces given to free books will diminish (as we've already seen happen here on Kindleboards in response to this announcement!). Reduce the number of ads spaces for free books, and you'll diminish downloads of free books.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Mathew Reuther said:


> And lose everyone from the program.


If the program is losing them money then they'll kill it. There's no need for conspiracies or half measures.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Adam Pepper said:


> If the program is losing them money then they'll kill it. There's no need for conspiracies or half measures.


They're starving their competition of books. Why not keep the program alive as long as they possibly can?

Anyone who believes that companies always deal openly hasn't been paying attention to history.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

scottnicholson said:


> I talked with the Kobo affiliate manager recently and apparently the reason hardly anyone knows there is a Kobo affiliate program is that there is a belief inside the company that the 8 percent paid to an affiliate is an 8 percent cut in the profit they made on the book sale. (With no concern whatsoever for the increased volume of sales likely to result from a big grassroots sales force.) Let's see if any of the sleepy competitors see this as an opening--none of them have been real serious about freebies or boosting indies in any appreciable way.


I am a Kobo affiliate, but often their books end up costing more, even with a coupon (so, I don't think they should sweat the 8%; which is now 5%, anyway). They are at least more ereader agnostic (unlike B&N, which is just as store-locked as Amazon's DRM, but they have convinced a lot of people otherwise), but their actual readers and apps are awful. And if you buy a free book ("add to library") and then read it - if you delete it from your device or app, it deletes it permanently from your library (want it back - pay full price). The only choice is to instead have only one or two books in the app and use the OS to do a clear-data on it now and then, to remove the one's you've read, without deleting from your library.

I think B&N's scheme there is best - you archive it and it also moves to an archive on your device and online library (of course, to balance that, the online library has no search ability, whatsoever).


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## @Suzanna (Mar 14, 2011)

koland said:


> <snip> but their actual readers and apps are awful. And if you buy a free book ("add to library") and then read it - if you delete it from your device or app, it deletes it permanently from your library (want it back - pay full price). The only choice is to instead have only one or two books in the app and use the OS to do a clear-data on it now and then, to remove the one's you've read, without deleting from your library.
> 
> I think B&N's scheme there is best - you archive it and it also moves to an archive on your device and online library (of course, to balance that, the online library has no search ability, whatsoever).


Or you just could download the Adobe epub version of the file on Kobo and keep that as a backup - I'd say about 99% of books on Kobo's site have an Adobe version available.

I have a Kobo Glo and Kobo Arc (which is an open tablet and has complete access to the Google Play store) and love both devices. The apps have recently been updated, as have the eInk models this past week, and now have an archive feature, so books can now be stored in the Kobo cloud when you're not reading them. Before the most recent firmware update, though, I deleted stuff all the time from my Kobo and still had the file in my library on the site (and I've been a Kobo customer since they were still called Shortcovers and have had every model of their devices.) :shrugs:


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> You assume that the authors are the sources for the how the sites get the free books to list. You have no idea how many of those downloads were from sites like mine because you have no idea if you were being promoted on them anyway. We look for high quality books that are currently free, and authors submitting their books is one way we find them, but far from being the biggest source. I do my own research, and find most of them on my own.


Sure we know when someone promotes our book, we get a "Google alert." I don't know many authors who don't use this free service.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Sure we know when someone promotes our book, we get a "Google alert." I don't know many authors who don't use this free service.


It doesn't actually work much of the time. I got one Google Alert out of many sites that ran my book last time.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Another way to capitalize on being in Amazon Prime if you just dipped your toe in.....

We could potentially do an Amazon Prime Pool Day or something where it's a blog post featuring books in Prime so that Prime Members can get them free. This is one avenue of "Prime" no one really pursued because with the 5 Freebie Days, it was silly to promote your "free" status to just Prime members, which was a smaller audience.

The risk for ebook marketers is making sure your book is not MASS free that day or we're screwed. But I could see doing a special 5 great books that are Amazon Prime right now so you can get one free.....

Many Prime member forget to borrow books.


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## 60865 (Jun 11, 2012)

traceye said:


> I suspect Amz is frowning on having to pay commissions to those large sites that technically do not 'sell' their products.


It does not matter what you "clicked in" to look at, if while you were there you purchased something, the link that was used did sell a product. 
But that's just my point of view because I am building a new book promotion site and was planning to promote free books as well.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Were Amazon so concerned about people getting affiliate revenue after free books why not just make the affiliate program session-based? Most people surf away afterwards and if they come back and buy a toaster-oven then yeah, it's not really fair that an affiliate get that revenue.

IMO this has a lot to do with trying to control the market for books, and less to do with paying out affiliate fees.

But hey, it's all just guesses unless you're sitting in Seattle making the decisions.


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## Free books for Kindle (Jan 8, 2010)

I suspect this isn't about killing free books - more about managing affiliate fee payouts. Nearly every change I've seen them make has been to reduce affiliate payments while driving sales. 

There might be technical reasons why they couldn't go the session based route - the 24 hr session length has been around for donkeys years. 

I will certainly continue to promote free kindle books - even if I end up getting no affiliate income from it (frankly we are not talking huge amounts anyway). I simply enjoy the fun of helping other authors out  and making new discoveries too much to give up on it.  

The moral of the story is not to depend on working too closely with big business for your livelihood. They will eat your lunch if they think it looks nicer than theirs.


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

Free books for Kindle said:


> The moral of the story is not to depend on working too closely with big business for your livelihood. They will eat your lunch if they think it looks nicer than theirs


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Wild Rivers said:


> I think that it is about time that Amazon did something to limit the number of free Kindle books. It is hurting Prime since why join Prime if you can get plenty of free Kindle books? Free books are hurting our paid sales and borrows.
> 
> *Good for you, Amazon!*


I think there might be some confusion about what Amazon Prime is. MOST Amazon Prime members have it for the free/reduced priced quicker shipping. It costs $79 a year and I can have almost anything in Amazon's whole catalog shipped to me at no extra charge and I'll get it within 2 days. Some things only take 1 day. And I can pay $4 to get it quicker if I HAVE to have it in one day. That is the real value to an Amazon Prime membership to the majority of their customers.

Within the last year, they've added some icing to that cake: there are videos that can be streamed freely (not downloaded, but streamed) on a Fire device, and there are upwards of a quarter million ebooks that may be borrowed free. The video streaming is pretty much unlimited -- if you have wifi access you can watch as much as you want on your Fire. You can borrow a maximum of 12 books a year through the Kindle Owners Lending Library. You can only borrow one each month, and you can't borrow one for the next month until you've returned the one you have. So you can only have one borrowed at a time.

I really don't think this has anything to do with Prime or Select -- they just don't want sites primarily pointing people to the stuff they offer for free, and, by extension, encouraging them not to actually spend money for books, for which I can't really blame them.

But, you're right about one thing: why BUY a book if you are pretty sure that it's going to be free sometime. To a much lesser extent, why use one of my limited borrows on a book that, if I wait a bit, I can probably buy for free. May as well save my borrow for something that costs more or that I'm fairly sure won't ever be offered to 'buy' for free.

OTOH, for me anyway, none of the books on my 'prime lending' wishlist are books that I'm likely to spend money on in the first place. They're completely unknown quantities (to me); I have them on the borrow list so I can try them without risk, and I'm not in any particular hurry to get to them. Each month I just browse my list to see what looks good today.  They're not also on my 'watch for the price to drop' list.

Still, if I borrow a book and really like it, I'll start putting that authors books in my 'pay for it' wish list. 

Another thought occurs: if I borrow it, I'm going to read it sooner rather than later. I have to because I don't want to lose next month's borrow. If I 'buy' it for $0.00, it's very likely going to take me much longer to get to it -- because I also buy many a book for well more than $0.00 and if I'm willing to do that, I really want to read it _now_, rather than see it as a book that looks interesting and would like to read _sometime_.

Again. . . all of this is just my opinion. . .I obviously can't speak to how anyone else sees it.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Mathew Reuther said:


> It doesn't actually work much of the time. I got one Google Alert out of many sites that ran my book last time.


I use actual searches the days of my free runs. I narrow them down by looking at only the last 24 hours or even the last hour --especially if I see a big spike in downloads. I want to know where that spike came from.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

SunHi Mistwalker said:


> Something just occurred to me...could it be that Amazon plans to charge indies to advertise their freebies and they want to cut out the competition? I know this is wild speculation, but I figure it could be possible. So many sites are making thousands of dollars advertising indie books on Amazon. And why should they make all that money when Amazon can capture that income for themselves?


I wondered this too.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Mathew Reuther said:


> But hey, it's all just guesses unless you're sitting in Seattle making the decisions.


True, but some guesses are educated and make logical sense while others sound like they were cooked up by gunmen hiding in a grassy knoll.


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## katiemoe (Feb 1, 2013)

Free books for Kindle said:


> The moral of the story is not to depend on working too closely with big business for your livelihood. They will eat your lunch if they think it looks nicer than theirs.


Sage business advice...


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

katiemoe said:


> Sage business advice...


It may sound like sage advice but if David can't beat Goliath, his best bet may be to take a piggyback ride until the giant shakes him off!

As to the overall changes, if Amazon's "diabolical" plan is to encourage sales and discourage freebies, then what's so bad about that?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2013)

BTW if the customers who use the sites that shut down still want free books, might they not just migrate to the sites that stick around (increasing their traffic) or switch to browsing the free lists on Amazon themselves? Rather than stop downloading freebies.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

glutton said:


> BTW if the customers who use the sites that shut down still want free books, might they not just migrate to the sites that stick around (increasing their traffic) or switch to browsing the free lists on Amazon themselves? Rather than stop downloading freebies.


Amazon has already made it difficult to find the Prime eligible ebooks. They could make it harder to find the freebies, too.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Well the message went out to our readers this morning that we will no longer be featuring free ebooks, but will provide them daily with the best in ebook deals.

When many are finding out WHY we are making the change, they are communicating that they love the Piggies enough that they will stick around and not be "buying" Freebies, but will look to find a deal priced book here and there to support us. I have no doubt that those who were already buying books will continue to do so, some people who only wanted freebies will go to their local library or do lending, and some people who were primarily freebie downloaders will change back to more book buying behavior than before.

The biggest concern isn't no more freebies, but who will be continuing freebies. We have been careful to explain that they should NOT go to competitor sites and download a bunch of freebies there to cause problems, unless the sites are still promoting the freebies after March 1. And we also have had to start explanations about clearing out cookies before you go look for freebies.

Change sucks, but I think in the long run once things settle down, this is just going to reintroduce the mostly abandoned 99 cent price point back into the ebook market. And we are moving forward with advertising specifically highlighting books willing to go $0.99-$1.99 for a week as a special deal feature.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Change sucks, but I think in the long run once things settle down, this is just going to reintroduce the mostly abandoned 99 cent price point back into the ebook market. And we are moving forward with advertising specifically highlighting books willing to go $0.99-$1.99 for a week as a special deal feature.


Sounds good. I'll check it out, although I've already blown my advertising dollars for the quarter.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Change sucks, but I think in the long run once things settle down, this is just going to reintroduce the mostly abandoned 99 cent price point back into the ebook market. And we are moving forward with advertising specifically highlighting books willing to go $0.99-$1.99 for a week as a special deal feature.


I'd be willing to give that a try, once things start settling down with the freebies.
I tried cheap-net last fall for a paid book without any discernible results. I figured because my paid book was drowned in a sea of freebies.
I really look forward to more paid-book advertising venues, even if they're discounts. It's more about the changing mind-set of the buyer than the difference between 99cents and $1.99


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh it's not up yet. It's one of the MANY ideas that came out of our pow-wow sessions last night. I was up until 4 AM escalating some of our existing plans in timeline.

The Cheap was already moving to a new domain this week, so it's working PERFECTLY for us to make a clean break with freebies. Moving forward, authors and readers will be able to submit content, and we are also slowly lessening our dependence on Facebook. Facebook is another place where the changes are fast and furious and nearly always a pain in the butt for those of us who built up big communities. Our reader reward programs, like ARCs (we are making a way for authors to basically SHARE a street team, our core readers, rather than have to put in the time to run and maintain their own, so an author can give out roughly 15 ARC copies and readers will be able to write up honest reviews to go up on our site when the book comes out as a "our reader say" launch and also share them where they feel comfortable....), and giveaways, will be open to readers with enough Piggy points to enter, and those points are based on participation, and on and on. One thing I always hated about blog posts and giveaways as part of blog tours it was always just a free for all and no way to qualify entrants before hand.

I'm moving us more into the market research field of things too because that's one area indie authors can't do. The ARC program is because when I looked into getting on places, it was $400 for 5 titles! But reader feedback on samples, covers, and other areas will grow to be a cornerstone of we offer for authors, always trying to keep the price low by spreading out the cost of the program over a number of authors so everyone is happy.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Sounds like a lot of good things coming up, Elizabeth. Innovators like yourself and Harvey and Greg (ENT) will weather this storm and come out on top.


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## martyinmaui (Mar 31, 2012)

I've had really good results with the KDP Select program, but I never looked at it as a long term strategy. I knew the minute I saw that associate update there would be massive knee jerk reaction, but from a business standpoint, honestly I have to say it makes good business sense. Short term there may be a few headaches (like I'm going to have to figure out a good update to my book featuring marketing with KDP Select!), but those who are willing to dig in and get creative with their marketing will come out stronger. I've been working hard to build my my platform because I look at my writing as my business. In fact my mantra is "I'm a passive income entrepreneur."


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Select and the Affiliate program are two different things. This has nothing to do with Select.
> 
> The concern is that WEBSITES that are used to promote free days will be impacted, because Amazon is cracking down on sites that do nothing but promote free books.


thank you for explaining it to me and I see now how I will be impacted since most of my sales result out of free downloads.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Oh it's not up yet. It's one of the MANY ideas that came out of our pow-wow sessions last night. I was up until 4 AM escalating some of our existing plans in timeline.
> 
> The Cheap was already moving to a new domain this week, so it's working PERFECTLY for us to make a clean break with freebies. Moving forward, authors and readers will be able to submit content, and we are also slowly lessening our dependence on Facebook. Facebook is another place where the changes are fast and furious and nearly always a pain in the butt for those of us who built up big communities. Our reader reward programs, like ARCs (we are making a way for authors to basically SHARE a street team, our core readers, rather than have to put in the time to run and maintain their own, so an author can give out roughly 15 ARC copies and readers will be able to write up honest reviews to go up on our site when the book comes out as a "our reader say" launch and also share them where they feel comfortable....), and giveaways, will be open to readers with enough Piggy points to enter, and those points are based on participation, and on and on. One thing I always hated about blog posts and giveaways as part of blog tours it was always just a free for all and no way to qualify entrants before hand.
> 
> I'm moving us more into the market research field of things too because that's one area indie authors can't do. The ARC program is because when I looked into getting on places, it was $400 for 5 titles! But reader feedback on samples, covers, and other areas will grow to be a cornerstone of we offer for authors, always trying to keep the price low by spreading out the cost of the program over a number of authors so everyone is happy.


I really love all the ideas you're coming up with, especially the ARC program. I hope you post the details here once you have everything finalized!


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## BillSmithBooksDotCom (Nov 4, 2012)

I wonder if any of the big book sites will just switch to another ebook vendor?

Smashwords pays 11% commission and none of these hassles. I'm sure they would love the traffic.


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## amishromanceauthor (Sep 27, 2012)

BillSmithBooksDotCom said:


> I wonder if any of the big book sites will just switch to another ebook vendor?
> 
> Smashwords pays 11% commission and none of these hassles. I'm sure they would love the traffic.


Problem is, Smashwords has hundreds of thousands less books than Amazon. Not to mention that none of the Big 6's books are on smashwords. And as much as we indies like to be featured, ENT and POI both feature traditional books as well.

Like a lot of people, I hope that the changes will lead to more paid opportunities to promote 99 cent and $2.99 books.


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> The Cheap was already moving to a new domain this week, so it's working PERFECTLY for us to make a clean break with freebies.


You have such a wonderful attitude, Elizabeth!  We all need to stay adaptable and on top of changes in the selling markets; they can happen _so_ quickly.


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## BillSmithBooksDotCom (Nov 4, 2012)

amishromanceauthor said:


> Problem is, Smashwords has hundreds of thousands less books than Amazon. Not to mention that none of the Big 6's books are on smashwords.


That could change in a hurry, especially if it becomes clear that freebies are no longer welcome.

Anyone remember MySpace.com? Yahoo.com? AOL.com? Palm? They seemed invincible once, too until their own arrogance did them in.


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

The day was coming: http://www.edwardwrobertson.com/2013/02/amazon-is-about-to-throttle-free-books.html


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

Here's another article someone mentioned in the comments section of the first article: http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2013/02/22/amazon-now-taking-steps-to-discourage-free-kindle-ebook-sites/#.USlgDGeOV1E


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

We've had a couple threads about Amazon's affiliate program changes, yeah. Here is Harvey's:
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,143211.0.html


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Those are interesting articles - thank you. I'm going to merge this with the thread dealing with this policy change from Amazon. - Harvey


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks, Harvey.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

BillSmithBooksDotCom said:


> That could change in a hurry, especially if it becomes clear that freebies are no longer welcome.
> 
> Anyone remember MySpace.com? Yahoo.com? AOL.com? Palm? They seemed invincible once, too until their own arrogance did them in.


Many of us have seen this--or something very much like it--coming for a while. It is hardly arrogance for Amazon to control how much content they give away. It is a sensible business practice.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Many of us have seen this--or something very much like it--coming for a while. It is hardly arrogance for Amazon to control how much content they give away. It is a sensible business practice.


I had predicted before that maybe they'll narrow it even further, like books are only free if they are the first in the series. That drives traffic to the rest of the books in the series.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

But does it drive incremental Amazon sales? Does it increase Amazon's total revenue? Would consumers reduce their total eyeball hours devoted to reading if they didn't know about book two in a series? Incremental sales for an author does not mean incremental sales for Amazon.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> But does it drive incremental Amazon sales? Does it increase Amazon's total revenue? Would consumers reduce their total eyeball hours devoted to reading if they didn't know about book two in a series? Incremental sales for an author does not mean incremental sales for Amazon.


Sure it does. People get hooked on series then go on to buy every book in the series. Repeat buyers tend to remember the author, and the brand, and be very vocal about what they loved. Not only that, but they then go on to find more books just like the series they finished. If you watched the Nightline special on the New Adult trend, They're attracting people who never picked up a book before, and these new readers are now reading every book in the genre they can. Readership goes up.


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

I think it's way too early to panic about this. I got the email and read it before coming to the Kindleboards, and I honestly didn't think it had anything to do with authors or free books. Amazon must've discovered that their affiliate program is costing them too much money and connected it to free books _through affiliate links._ There's such an easy workaround, I dunno why it's such a big deal: just link to free books without your affiliate code in the url. Sites that only offer links to free books will have to change their revenue source to advertising or showcasing paid items with their affiliate links. Does this change suck for them? Sure, but it's not an insurmountable change IMHO.

The only thing that's a real bummer from a webmaster's point of view, is not being able to use Amazon's nifty little widgets. Though now that I think about it, the code can probably be edited to take out referral id's from the url--though still time consuming.

But anyway...I don't think this is the end of free books as we know it or anything like that. Otherwise Amazon wouldn't still be price-matching permafree books, and yet they are. They never had to start allowing that in the first place, but as we all know Amazon DOES make money off of free books because it pushes buyers to buy more books. Maybe Amazon is just tired of turning around and giving _those_ profits back to affiliates.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

L.M. Pfalz said:


> There's such an easy workaround, I dunno why it's such a big deal: just link to free books without your affiliate code in the url.


Please read the rest of the thread. It has been explained several times why this won't work, and why this does affect authors whose books are in Select.


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Please read the rest of the thread. It has been explained several times why this won't work, and why this does affect authors whose books are in Select.


I did read the thread. I'm sorry, I didn't recall this specifically being discussed, but I'll go back through and see. If it's just in regard to the 24 hour cookie, then I still think what I said would work, because of the percentages and figures Amazon is throwing out there.

Here's the thing...some "buyers" are only looking for free. These visitors may use sites like POI and ENT and the like to find them. If they click a free non-affiliate link, then they can download to their heart's content without affecting the affiliate. Now, of course there is a chance folks will click a paid item affiliate link and then go on to download free books, but I don't think these numbers would get to be as crazy high as the numbers Amazon is allowing for. I could be wrong, but it seems far less likely to me.

Now, if there's another reason why this won't work, I'll have to go back through the thread and find it 

As far as Select authors go, if their promotions are reliant on sites like POI and ENT, then yes this change might affect them. Maybe I'm incredibly unlucky, but I could never get picked up by the big sites anyway for my free promos. Since there is no guarantee of being listed with them (or anyone else), Amazon's changes don't affect all Select members or even the majority.

The ebook market is constantly changing. To me (and I very well might eat my words, who knows), I don't think this particular change is going to be as devastating as people think. Heck, free promos in general aren't as effective as they once were, so is the fear that this change will make them ineffective entirely? I just have a hard time believing that will happen unless Amazon does away with free entirely, or only allows it for Select members. But again, I personally don't believe that is the point of the new affiliate changes.


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## KevinMcLaughlin (Nov 11, 2010)

L.M. Pfalz said:


> Heck, free promos in general aren't as effective as they once were, so is the fear that this change will make them ineffective entirely? I just have a hard time believing that will happen unless Amazon does away with free entirely, or only allows it for Select members. But again, I personally don't believe that is the point of the new affiliate changes.


The point of the affiliate changes is to reduce the means by which readers easily find out about free ebooks, which will then reduce the total number of free ebooks downloaded. That's pretty much the bottom line.

The impact is going to be that every large affiliate (20k+ items per month) who lists free books will be forced to list less free books and more paid books. Probably significantly MORE paid books than free, the reversal of how things presently stand.

These large affiliates are one of the key methods folks are using to get any significant value from free runs on Select. Most users get a few hundred to a few thousand downloads, which basically does little or nothing to boost sales. You need tens of thousands of downloads to have any serious impact. These larger sites can acquire those levels of downloads. But they're going to reduce the number of free slots, making it much harder for Select users to get the levels of downloads required to have a large impact on sales.

In short, 99% or so of Select users will be completely unaffected, because for about 99% of Select users, the free period wasn't doing anything anyway.

For the few who were getting serious benefit from Select free runs, this will make reaching the level of downloads required to have an impact on sales much more difficult. Not impossible, but it's going to take a lot more work.

As Russell Blake just pointed out on his blog, if there are 30,000 Select books free on Amazon on any given day, about 29,960 of them are getting next to no benefit from the experience. The other 40 just had the job of getting serious benefit made that much harder.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I had predicted before that maybe they'll narrow it even further, like books are only free if they are the first in the series. That drives traffic to the rest of the books in the series.


There is a reason why I now don't have any books in Select after early on being one of its biggest fans. Select made me a lot of money, but the one thing we can count on is that what worked last year isn't going to work this year. Amazon may make further changes or this may have the effect they want. I have no idea and am at best guessing at their reasoning. But I am well prepared for not depending on free books.

I would rather see them narrow it further and make it effective again that the current situation.


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

KevinMcLaughlin said:


> In short, 99% or so of Select users will be completely unaffected, because for about 99% of Select users, the free period wasn't doing anything anyway.
> 
> For the few who were getting serious benefit from Select free runs, this will make reaching the level of downloads required to have an impact on sales much more difficult. Not impossible, but it's going to take a lot more work.
> 
> As Russell Blake just pointed out on his blog, if there are 30,000 Select books free on Amazon on any given day, about 29,960 of them are getting next to no benefit from the experience. The other 40 just had the job of getting serious benefit made that much harder.


I mentioned this in my last post. _Some_ Select members will be affected, obviously, but not the majority. There have been much more substantial changes made to the e-market and Amazon that affected _many_ authors and forced them to drastically change their marketing strategies. My only point was that this particular change won't (IMO) have a devastating affect authors on such a grand scale. Every change affects someone, but that's just the way it goes. If we excessively worry about every little ripple, we'll all go mad. It's the huge waves we have to watch out for 

Also, I re-read the terms and perhaps I'm reading it wrong, so here it is again:

_"In addition, notwithstanding the advertising fee rates described on this page or anything to the contrary contained in this Operating Agreement, if we determine you are primarily promoting free Kindle eBooks (i.e., eBooks for which the customer purchase price is $0.00), YOU WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE TO EARN ANY ADVERTISING FEES DURING ANY MONTH IN WHICH YOU MEET THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:
(a) 20,000 or more free Kindle eBooks are ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links; and
(b) At least 80% of all Kindle eBooks ordered and downloaded during Sessions attributed to your Special Links are free Kindle eBooks." _

Referring to (a), it sounds to me that the 20k free kindle books are per _session_, not per _month._ Which still very well could pertain to huge sites like POI and ENT, but not the majority (there's that word again ) of websites that link to free ebooks. Of course, I could be reading it wrong too, but since it specifically says they're targeting sites _primarily_ promoting free Kindle ebooks, I really think their target is the really big sites and/or spam sites.

Again, I maintain this is an affiliate issue, not a free ebook issue. It's needlessly complex to go about getting rid of free ebooks by going through their affiliate program. I just don't think that would be the strategy they'd use if they wanted to phase out free ebooks or even limit them to KDP Select.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

L.M. Pfalz said:


> Referring to (a), it sounds to me that the 20k free kindle books are per _session_, not per _month._ Which still very well could pertain to huge sites like POI and ENT, but not the majority (there's that word again ) of websites that link to free ebooks. Of course, I could be reading it wrong too, but since it specifically says they're targeting sites _primarily_ promoting free Kindle ebooks, I really think their target is the really big sites and/or spam sites.


You are reading it wrong, yes. The word used is "session*s*" . . . meaning the cookie for your affiliate is present during the download of 20k+ ebooks in a month. It would shock me if even medium sites don't run up against that every month.


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## KevinMcLaughlin (Nov 11, 2010)

Mathew Reuther said:


> You are reading it wrong, yes. The word used is "session*s*" . . . meaning the cookie for your affiliate is present during the download of 20k+ ebooks in a month. It would shock me if even medium sites don't run up against that every month.


Correct. In simple English - if your affiliate links are associated with 20,000 or more free Kindle book downloads per month, you'd better make sure you have at least 5001 NON-free Kindle book downloads also associated with your affiliate links.

Because links to free books are so much more effective than links to non-free, I suspect that most affiliates will need to display more links for non-free than they can for free. (I'm an affiliate too, but it's pocket change for me, not something I do a ton with.)


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

Mathew Reuther said:


> You are reading it wrong, yes. The word used is "session*s*" . . . meaning the cookie for your affiliate is present during the download of 20k+ ebooks in a month. It would shock me if even medium sites don't run up against that every month.


I did see the "s" on the end of "sessions", but I still read it the other way  But yeah, 20k a month wouldn't be all that many free downloads, even with not using affiliate links for free ebooks and chancing mixing in paid affiliate links.

I wouldn't be surprised though if Amazon discovers the flaws in this system and ends up changing things again. As someone pointed out early on in the thread, if someone visited a site (any site) and clicked an affiliate link, and then the next day or a few hours later decided to download a bunch of free ebooks on their own, said ebooks would still count against the affiliate who had nothing to do with promoting free ebooks. Granted, this would have to happen several times to reach the 20k minimum, but still...it _could_ happen especially on high traffic sites. I have to wonder if Amazon is going to enforce these rules at their own discretion, depending on an affiliate's overall website content and intent.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

KevinMcLaughlin said:


> Correct. In simple English - if your affiliate links are associated with 20,000 or more free Kindle book downloads per month, you'd better make sure you have at least 5001 NON-free Kindle book downloads also associated with your affiliate links.


Technically 4001, but yeah, it's pretty clear that free sells better than paid any way you slice it!



> (I'm an affiliate too, but it's pocket change for me, not something I do a ton with.)


A lot of authors are, just for linking our own stuff, or the occasional thing that comes across in a guest blog or whatnot. We're (obviously) not the target of these things.


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## ladycat (May 7, 2012)

Wild Rivers said:


> I think that it is about time that Amazon did something to limit the number of free Kindle books. It is hurting Prime since why join Prime if you can get plenty of free Kindle books? Free books are hurting our paid sales and borrows.
> 
> *Good for you, Amazon!*


People don't pay $79 a year so they can borrow one book a month.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

It has been confirmed here and elsewhere (other forums where Amazon Affiliates hang out) that if a free book is downloaded during your 24 hour cookie, even the user didn't click on the freebie from your site, it counts against you. 

To put this in perspective, January 1-3 my book was free and I was featured on a couple of sites, but the FIRST day, I was on The-Cheap.net only. In 3 days I had 43,000 downloads of Cancelled go out. I had 800 clicks alone from that source. All of our other freebie posts get between 80-200 clicks per day that Amazon credits us with (their system is not perfect and they leave off a great deal of clicks and traffic). In one month, that is 250 books to as little as 20 books we can share in a month! We were sharing between 5-10 free books a day in 6 different categories.

Certainly authors can think this isn't going to affect them. But even if you are NOT in Select, it's going to affect you. Book blogs, book sites, book communities have all used affiliate links for a long time to keep their other sides of the house free or low cost. Without affiliate money income, either because they have too many freebies or cut them altogether so that they don't have as much traffic on their book links, they're going to need to replenish that income somehow or close down their sites. No one wants to get up every single day to run a site and handle author emails for free. It IS work. And, many of these sites have single parents or people who lost jobs and decided to work from home to make ends meet. They are people with bills to pay, too. For even "small" sites you are talking about hundreds to thousands of dollars a month in lost income.

This is definitely going to have deep ripple effects, some good, some not, for the entire ebook community.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

If you think this is about getting rid of free books you are overreacting, in my opinion. This is an affiliate change, plain and simple. Amazon didn't want to pay commissions on free lead generation into their system. Actually makes a lot of sense. And as they stated, only affects. 0.01% of their affiliates.


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## amishromanceauthor (Sep 27, 2012)

I keep thinking how this would be a great time for B&N to offer an enticing Nook Select program or allow Nook books to be featured in their affiliate program.  But then I remember that if they were on top of the ball, they wouldn't be barnes and noble.  Sigh.


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## erikwecks (Nov 30, 2012)

My hope is that this begins to reset the expectations of the Kindle readers to a .99 model. 

I tend to think that the kindle readers are becoming conditioned to wait until a book is free before they buy it. I have had several people recently on twitter bragging to me that they were waiting for my next free promotion.  

Hopefully this will help them become more acclimated to paying something for my work. The "give away for free and make more money" model only works if there is a large portion of the audience who doesn't participate in the free days. If a large percentage of the audience is conditioned to wait for the free day then the model breaks down. I tend to think this is what has begun to happen, especially based on the tweets I have received recently and the huge numbers I received from two free Book Bub promotions I have done.

So I think this is a positive step in the right direction for me as an indie author. The same sites which used to advertise free will now switch to advertising .99 cent books, if their owners are smart. They will then be able to collect their income from affiliate sales (certainly a smaller income) and the reader will have to be more selective in what they "purchase." This will mean less over all numbers for the indie author, but I bet it will mean much better profits.

If you look at the app model there are still millions of people who will pay .99 for an iphone or android app. This just puts kindle books in that market and I think that is a really good thing because it reconditions the reader to expect to pay for the book, and then if they happen to wander across it for free it is a bonus.


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## Ardin (Nov 1, 2012)

I think this could be good. It will reduce the focus on free books on the big sites like ENT and KND. Wouldn't it be better if they boosted our books when they cost a few dollars than when they are free?


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Clothing retailers trained their customers to wait for mark-downs. You weren't the first to buy a new style, but a month later you could have it for less. Now, authors have trained readers to "buy" free e-books, and claim "sales" will be reduced if they can't go free. Fewer, or better yet no, free e-books will quickly retrain readers to spend actual money. How can this be bad? Do you want sheer numbers of downloads that often are not even read, or do you want money in your bank account?


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

erikwecks said:


> I have had several people recently on twitter bragging to me that they were waiting for my next free promotion.


Me too. I had someone praise my free short story (set that way while I get enough of my series done to make it worthwhile to have Book One free) and ask me when Book One of the series would be on a free promotion. I replied that I had no immediate plans for doing so. His response: "That's too bad. Looked like it would be worth reading."


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## Eric C (Aug 3, 2009)

jimkukral said:


> If you think this is about getting rid of free books you are overreacting, in my opinion. This is an affiliate change, plain and simple.


Why can't it be both? Amazon does keep experimenting with separating free from paid. Right now when I click on "See top 100 free in Kindle store" from a book's product page I'm taken to top 100 paid instead, and then I have to click on yet another link to actually get to top 100 free. Hardly free friendly!


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

Another article on this, tweeted by Joanna Penn, http://kindleworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/kindle-news-amazon-now-heavily.html


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

Thomas Watson said:


> His response: "That's too bad. Looked like it would be worth reading."


Man. That's like a slap in the face.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Fredster said:


> Man. That's like a slap in the face.


No kidding. If it's worth reading, then it's worth paying for.

(Disclaimer: I have used Select in the past to some advantage, and I do have one perma-free title to introduce a trilogy. But I don't have any books in Select right now, and I'm doubting I'll enroll any of my future ones.)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Readers will wait in vain for many books to go free. I have a lot that haven't gone free or will not go free.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

It cracks me up that people won't spend 99 cents or even $2.99 on a book.  I mean COME ON…a good read is worth way more than that.

And I actually think that most people would want to support their favorite authors by spending the money but, since we offer the books for free (and I do it too), then they probably figure either we get some financial benefit or maybe we don't need the money 'cause we're all rich.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "I think that it is about time that Amazon did something to limit the number of free Kindle books. It is hurting Prime since why join Prime if you can get plenty of free Kindle books? Free books are hurting our paid sales and borrows."


I joined Prime five years ago because I save far more than $79/year in shipping.



> "It cracks me up that people won't spend 99 cents or even $2.99 on a book. I mean COME ON&#8230;a good read is worth way more than that."


Perhaps they are spending $2.99 for X books, and then also download free books. We don't know what they do.


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## Sharebear (Sep 25, 2011)

Anyone else see this post?
http://www.fkbooksandtips.com/2013/02/24/important-changes-to-the-blog-please-read/

I've always had success on their site and I'm sad to see how this impacts them.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I haven't jumped in yet, sort of listening and nodding. I actually do a fair amount of affiliate sales from my site and have for a decade.

*I just checked my affiliate page, and I can't see any free book downloads*, but I KNOW they happen. I have a perma free book that I link prominently on every page of my site and it has my affliate code on it.

*How do you see this?* I know I can't possibly have a 4:1 freeaid ratio (probably more like 50:1, so am going to take the code off tomorrow, but I can't see the free books on my reports!

Interestingly, my affiliate money has been flat even since the addition of this book...you'd think it would have increased with a 24 hour cookie, right? I sell about 100 books/doodads a month and I would guess most of the free downloads a month are direct from my site as it gets about 100K visits a month.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

brinacourtney said:


> Anyone else see this post?
> http://www.fkbooksandtips.com/2013/02/24/important-changes-to-the-blog-please-read/
> 
> I've always had success on their site and I'm sad to see how this impacts them.


The cream will rise to the top.


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## Thomas Watson (Mar 8, 2012)

Fredster said:


> Man. That's like a slap in the face.


Pretty much sums up how I reacted.


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## Michael Gallagher (Jan 23, 2010)

brinacourtney said:


> Anyone else see this post?
> http://www.fkbooksandtips.com/2013/02/24/important-changes-to-the-blog-please-read/
> 
> I've always had success on their site and I'm sad to see how this impacts them.


Well, hopefully I'll still be around for a while!

I've stewed on this for a few days, read all of the posts in this thread and other blogs, and I could write lots of posts about what I think works and doesn't work on Amazon as well as how I am 100% certain the various departments at Amazon don't talk to each other. Maybe we all should go on the public speaking tour and share experiences!

Personally, with this move, I'm not too sure why anyone would want to stay in Select unless you have a really good marketing strategy.

In answer to the various hypotheses floating out there I'll go ahead and tell you the 75:1 ratio (and others) being floated out there is wrong for my site: the Amazon reporting leaves a lot to be desired because it is nonexistent, but my own guess - based on clicks and sales - is the free download to paid download ratio for February is 148:1, and February has been a slow month. I almost resigned my day job last month to do this full time as the last half of 2012 it ramped up significantly and it is 2.5x my salary from the affiliate commissions (or was). That dream is now parked to the side and back to reality.

It will be interesting to see who, or any, of the freebie sites like FKBT will survive. I'm going to give it a try - it's going to be hard, sure, but it will be interesting to see what happens (and financially painful in the process).

Thanks for each of you who have supported me and the FKBT blog over the years - my family and I certainly appreciate it!

Regards,

Michael


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Michael Gallagher said:


> Well, hopefully I'll still be around for a while!
> 
> I've stewed on this for a few days, read all of the posts in this thread and other blogs, and I could write lots of posts about what I think works and doesn't work on Amazon as well as how I am 100% certain the various departments at Amazon don't talk to each other. Maybe we all should go on the public speaking tour and share experiences!
> 
> ...


Michael, this has to be a tough situation for you (and for other bloggers). As a writer, I've been preparing for something like this for a while. But it seems a bit extreme to in effect go after the bloggers who have only been advertising for Amazon.

I'm really sorry to see it happen, but it looks like you're taking positive action. I hope it works for you.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

brinacourtney said:


> Anyone else see this post?
> http://www.fkbooksandtips.com/2013/02/24/important-changes-to-the-blog-please-read/
> 
> I've always had success on their site and I'm sad to see how this impacts them.


Michael, congrats! Why? Because this Amazon change will finally give you a sustaining and way more profitable business model. By this time next year you'll be making 3 times what you making off measly associate clicks, mark my words.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

> It will be interesting to see who, or any, of the freebie sites like FKBT will survive. I'm going to give it a try - it's going to be hard, sure, but it will be interesting to see what happens (and financially painful in the process).


Michael, good luck to you and I look forward to your email and work with your blog. I'm sure things will work out because you have a great site, with a lot of different topics of interest.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "Personally, with this move, I'm not too sure why anyone would want to stay in Select unless you have a really good marketing strategy."


I don't have a reason to offer, but I also don't think I know enough now to make any decision. We don't know how free books will do in the future. We will find out over the next few months as people make books free in the new environment.

We can assume one factor in a market will change, and then map out the expected results. That's useful since it identifies causal relations. However, it's very rare that only one thing changes. That single change usually starts a cascade of subsequent changes.

I'm not smart enough to say how this will resolve.


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

Because there was some confusion earlier on my part, I decided to email Amazon for some clarification on their terms. The crux of their reply is below:



Amazon said:


> Beginning March 1, 2013, the associates program will no longer pay referral fees to associates who primarily advertise free kindle books on their sites. This change affects a small number of associates, and only impacts those that meet the following three conditions:
> 
> • Referral of more than 20,000 free Kindle units each month
> • More than 80% of all Kindle eBook units are Free
> ...


So the 20k a month was indeed correct, in case anyone still had any doubts.

I do find it interesting how they specifically say it only affects a small amount of associates. Sounds like they do have certain websites/affiliates in mind that they're targeting (not trying to sound paranoid or anything ). This again leads me to believe that this isn't so much an issue with free books as a whole, but rather how people are finding/accessing them. I don't think free ebooks are going anywhere, but as to how effective they'll be, that'll remain to be seen.

I still think the larger websites could still focus on free ebooks and rely on advertising for their revenue. Many free entertainment sites rely solely on advertising. Until Amazon makes a statement that they're disallowing free ebooks altogether, there will always be websites who will link to them and finding some way to profit from the high volume traffic they draw (ie advertising). So I still believe this is a financial issue between Amazon and (certain) affiliates, and not Amazon and authors directly. Indirectly, maybe, as with any change to the ebook market, but this is why self-publishing marketing and promotional strategies are always changing. I personally am just going to wait and see how this plays out before panicking.

I do feel for the webmasters of free ebook sites who have to change the way they do business. Change is always a little daunting and scary


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

Colin said:


> I'm also predicting a big exodus from KDP Select.


I wonder if it is all a move to make sure the only free books come from KDP Select.

Jodi


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

jimkukral said:


> Michael, congrats! Why? Because this Amazon change will finally give you a sustaining and way more profitable business model. By this time next year you'll be making 3 times what you making off measly associate clicks, mark my words.


I think if Michael (and others) can figure out a way to retain an audience hooked on free ebook crack, then this is definitely true. That's what's going to be difficult. ENT have been been having some success promoting bargain books, but they built their subscriber lists on free. The challenge will be to convert readers used to getting books for free to a pay-to-play model actually benefits everyone. As for authors, I believe the free model has kept a lot of writers around longer than they otherwise would have. Free creates an ecosystem where low quality becomes much more palatable.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

This audience hooked on free books must also be buying books, or else there'd be no affiliate money. Right?


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Jodi said:


> I wonder if it is all a move to make sure the only free books come from KDP Select.
> 
> Jodi


How does this make sense? The books being listed on these sites are at least 95% or more all KDP Select promotions. This is going to make KDP Select a lot less attractive an option for authors.

Let's face it, the prime lending fund has never been that great an incentive.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Adam Pepper said:


> This audience hooked on free books must also be buying books, or else there'd be no affiliate money. Right?


Well the income doesn't come from only bought books, but from the purchase of almost anything paid on the Amazon site.

I had someone buy 10 cases of paper towels after clicking through from one of my site's links the other day, anything bought post-click for the next 24 hours is credited to the last affiliate the user clicked on. (highly simplified, and there are some exceptions, but that's the simplest way to explain it).


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> How does this make sense? The books being listed on these sites are at least 95% or more all KDP Select promotions. This is going to make KDP Select a lot less attractive an option for authors.


Honest question: What about the perma-frees? How are those promoted?

Jodi


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Jodi said:


> Honest question: What about the perma-frees? How are those promoted?
> 
> Jodi


Same way, but like I said, the vast majority of the books being posted on my site, and most of the others, are KDP Select. Rarely do the permafrees end up on the sites.

Not to overgeneralize, but the permafrees who are taking advantage of the price matching rule, tend to be of a lesser quality. I rarely post them, and I rarely see them on the other sites I monitor.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> Same way, but like I said, the vast majority of the books being posted on my site, and most of the others, are KDP Select. Rarely do the permafrees end up on the sites.
> 
> Not to overgeneralize, but the permafrees who are taking advantage of the price matching rule, tend to be of a lesser quality. I rarely post them, and I rarely see them on the other sites I monitor.


Good points. The reasoning behind my OP was that this will likely severely limit freebie-listing sites (unless they do it for the love). As a result, the main way to find freebies would be through Amazon's own lists. In that case, it probably isn't difficult for Amazon to shift its algorithms to emphasize Select freebies over price-matched freebies (if this is not already the case). That in turn creates incentive to join Select to get your freebie higher on the list.

Jodi


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Jodi said:


> Good points. The reasoning behind my OP was that this will likely severely limit freebie-listing sites (unless they do it for the love). As a result, the main way to find freebies would be through Amazon's own lists. In that case, it probably isn't difficult for Amazon to shift its algorithms to emphasize Select freebies over price-matched freebies (if this is not already the case). That in turn creates incentive to join Select to get your freebie higher on the list.
> 
> Jodi


Uh, not likely. Most authors will now be very lucky to even get a blimp on the list, because of the lack of ability for large numbers of readers to even find out about their free promo.

This will benefit firmly established authors who use free promos, sure. They are the ones most likely to have people closely watching for their books. The rest of the authors depended on being able to promote their promotion so to speak. With that now being shut down, their shot at getting visible on those lists is much much harder.

And with the removal of the wide ranging exposure they got, the benefits of those free downloads will be much less as well. Less readers finding them, less readers reading them, less readers buying their other books.

A lot of indie authors I talk to are more interested in being read than in making big money. The free promos gave them a fresh way to connect with readers they would have had a hard time reaching any other way. Now they will connect with much fewer of them.

Most of us running these sites will adapt to the new landscape, but I stand firmly by my arguments that this makes select a much less attractive option for the majority of indie authors. Smashwords will have a much easier time convincing authors that Select doesn't bring enough value any longer now.

I know some people insist over and over that the free promos don't bring in "real" readers...I really strongly feel that to be wrong. I've got an author I know who writes a monthly column in a national motorcycle magazine who has written a few novels published in KDP. The promos have had a big impact on exposure for his books, much more so than his column even has. Each time he's seen an uptick in posts on his facebook page and blog.

I myself have found some authors I follow as a result of running a site promotion the free books. Authors I would have never found otherwise. And like I always encouraged my sites visitors to do, if I got a book for free and enjoyed it, I make a point of going back and reviewing it on Amazon. I figure that if I got it for free, the least I can do to pay back the author for the enjoyment I got is to review it.


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

Jodi said:


> Good points. The reasoning behind my OP was that this will likely severely limit freebie-listing sites (unless they do it for the love).


...or advertising revenue 



wxwalsh said:


> Not to overgeneralize, but the permafrees who are taking advantage of the price matching rule, tend to be of a lesser quality. I rarely post them, and I rarely see them on the other sites I monitor.


That's odd...I've heard on these boards that the exact opposite is true. That sites like POI favor permafree books.

Also, I don't see how quality would correlate with a type of marketing strategy. Many authors go permafree, even the likes of Amanda Hocking (who most likely would never have to these days to sell more books). I think some (if not many) authors use permafree AS the promotional tool. Some don't see the point in promoting a free book, as it's supposed to basically promote itself with its pricepoint. I have mixed feelings about this, but that's not the point. The point is, it's probably best not to assume that the books submitted to your site and others represent the great majority of permafree books.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

L.M. Pfalz said:


> ...or advertising revenue
> 
> That's odd...I've heard on these boards that the exact opposite is true. That sites like POI favor permafree books.
> 
> Also, I don't see how quality would correlate with a type of marketing strategy. Many authors go permafree, even the likes of Amanda Hocking (who most likely would never have to these days to sell more books). I think some (if not many) authors use permafree AS the promotional tool. Some don't see the point in promoting a free book, as it's supposed to basically promote itself with its pricepoint. I have mixed feelings about this, but that's not the point. The point is, it's probably best not to assume that the books submitted to your site and others represent the great majority of permafree books.


I just went and checked POI. They have changed the way they are posting already, so I went back to before the announcement, and looked at 3 days worth of posts. Every book posted in those three days was enrolled in Select or was from a publishing partner, none were self published "price matched" perma free books. Now they may have changed that, since they are now posting only 2 free books per post, instead of the 4-5 they were doing.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I don't have a reason to offer, but I also don't think I know enough now to make any decision. We don't know how free books will do in the future. We will find out over the next few months as people make books free in the new environment.
> 
> We can assume one factor in a market will change, and then map out the expected results. That's useful since it identifies causal relations. However, it's very rare that only one thing changes. That single change usually starts a cascade of subsequent changes.
> 
> I'm not smart enough to say how this will resolve.


I don't think anyone is. This is one of those points where a system (might) destabilize so much that it's impossible to predict the outcome or where it will stabilize again.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> Same way, but like I said, the vast majority of the books being posted on my site, and most of the others, are KDP Select. Rarely do the permafrees end up on the sites.
> 
> Not to overgeneralize, but the permafrees who are taking advantage of the price matching rule, tend to be of a lesser quality. I rarely post them, and I rarely see them on the other sites I monitor.


Well, as someone with a perma-free title with a current average of 4.5 stars, I have to say I'm a little surprised by this remark. Maybe you shouldn't tar all perma-free books with the same brush.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

ChristinePope said:


> Well, as someone with a perma-free title with a current average of 4.5 stars, I have to say I'm a little surprised by this remark. Maybe you shouldn't tar all perma-free books with the same brush.


Well I stand by what I said. I didn't say all.... And I'm sure there are exceptions. But then on my site I always exercised discretion in what I posted. Quality over quantity.

So I'm sure some of the permafree books are great, but I stand by my personal evaluation of the majority of ones I've come across being of lesser quality in general than the KDP Select free promotion books I post.

Actually, maybe I should rephrase, let me say that I find it easier to find higher quality KDP Select books than I do to find higher quality permafree books from non-select authors.

That's more accurate to what I was trying to say.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2013)

leedobbins said:


> It cracks me up that people won't spend 99 cents or even $2.99 on a book. I mean COME ON&#8230;a good read is worth way more than that.
> 
> And I actually think that most people would want to support their favorite authors by spending the money but, since we offer the books for free (and I do it too), then they probably figure either we get some financial benefit or maybe we don't need the money 'cause we're all rich.


I doubt they think about you at all, to be honest. They think no more about you than the person at WalMart thinks about children being paid .50 an hour in China or India when they buy that $5 t-shirt.

When you treat your work like an interchangeable commodity, customers will treat it like an interchangeable commodity. And in commodities, the lowest price always wins.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

We've moved forward with our new domain, thecheapebook.com and author ads will be available shortly for it. We're making a clean break with freebies. I've refunded authors with free book ads purchased and offered them a complimentary blog post when their book is back to paid status for the inconvenience.

We've had three days of no more freebies and so far: Our # of visitors is down compared to last week, our # of products SOLD is up by 10-15 items compared to last week, and our earnings are on par with what we earn in the week between bimonthly paychecks.

I think moving forward, our site at least will be more desirable for authors to see better results than they even have in the past because there is not competition with a freebie book.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> We've moved forward with our new domain, thecheapebook.com and author ads will be available shortly for it. We're making a clean break with freebies. I've refunded authors with free book ads purchased and offered them a complimentary blog post when their book is back to paid status for the inconvenience.
> 
> We've had three days of no more freebies and so far: Our # of visitors is down compared to last week, our # of products SOLD is up by 10-15 items compared to last week, and our earnings are on par with what we earn in the week between bimonthly paychecks.
> 
> I think moving forward, our site at least will be more desirable for authors to see better results than they even have in the past because there is not competition with a freebie book.


I'd be interested in seeing how that holds up once your new format is in full swing. It sounds like you are hopeful about things, yours is one site that brought more value add than many of them, so I'm hopeful for you.


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

bmcox said:


> Another article on this, tweeted by Joanna Penn, http://kindleworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/kindle-news-amazon-now-heavily.html


I know plenty of people who rely solely on free books so this will be bad news for them, but what about us? Will Amazon offer five days of promotions for our  (paid for books now?). If not, how else are people going to know they're there and where's the incentive to put them on select?


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm hearing that Books on the Knob has set up a separate site for free books, and using the original site for bargain books only. I thought we had decided this wouldn't work? They seem to be trying to make a go of it.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

MegHarris said:


> I'm hearing that Books on the Knob has set up a separate site for free books, and using the original site for bargain books only. I thought we had decided this wouldn't work? They seem to be trying to make a go of it.


Presumably, the the links on the secondary site won't have affiliate links.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Presumably, the the links on the secondary site won't have affiliate links.


So instead of taking responsibility for posting and promoting them, they will let some poor affiliates who aren't actually promoting free books have the credits applied to their accounts.

I'm really waiting for some affiliates who have never had anything to do with one of these sites falling afoul of this through indirect credit and losing income, and the blow back that is going to cause on this very poorly thought out and poorly implemented "fix" to an illusory "problem" that never really was.


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## leedobbins (Feb 5, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I doubt they think about you at all, to be honest. They think no more about you than the person at WalMart thinks about children being paid .50 an hour in China or India when they buy that $5 t-shirt.


I have to disagree with you. I have plenty of people email me and contact me through Facebook wanting to buy my next books. I think they are thinking about me and I think the fans of the other authors here want to support them too.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

wxwalsh said:


> So instead of taking responsibility for posting and promoting them, they will let some poor affiliates who aren't actually promoting free books have the credits applied to their accounts.


Umm... no.

Still clearing final details with Amazon, to make sure the site can continue (I don't post as many indie authors, anymore, after they started blasting the EU and UK sites that had too many downloads with practically zero earnings -- when I ran the indie lists daily, there were thousands of clicks a day). As set up, the free listings won't impact other affiliates.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

koland said:


> Umm... no.
> 
> Still clearing final details with Amazon, to make sure the site can continue (I don't post as many indie authors, anymore, after they started blasting the EU and UK sites that had too many downloads with practically zero earnings -- when I ran the indie lists daily, there were thousands of clicks a day). As set up, the free listings won't impact other affiliates.


If you figure out a way to stop the free books from being applied to the last affiliate they clicked on, please please please share it.

Because they have confirmed that indirect free book "purchases" will be subject to the policy.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> If you figure out a way to stop the free books from being applied to the last affiliate they clicked on, please please please share it.


In which case they would most likely apply to Books on the Knob, as it currently has a link to the freebie site and people are likely to go from one to the other. I wonder if separating them will work. But I admit I know nothing about being an affiliate *shrugs*.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

MegHarris said:


> In which case they would most likely apply to Books on the Knob, as it currently has a link to the freebie site and people are likely to go from one to the other. I wonder if separating them will work. But I admit I know nothing about being an affiliate *shrugs*.


Yea, I just checked their site, and I am wondering if they are using a 2nd affiliate account. From my reading, that would be against policy as well.

But I'll reserve judgment until we hear back how they are trying to solve this for their site. As my readers would definitely like me to be able to continue to guide them towards good quality free books.


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Everyone loves data. Yummy, delicious data.

I have free in my site's name. Even if I wanted to change gears (i don't), it would be pretty darn hard.

I polled my userbase this afternoon and here's what I have to share after four hours in.

I asked on Facebook :

If I can find you one good free book a day you'll actually read... I've done my job. The splurge books. What's the "right" price?

The answers (which I provided) were :

$WITHINREASON - Price matters but if it's good... I'll consider it. +48
$FREE - I'm only here for the free. +31
$DOESNTMATTER - If it is good and I'm interested, I'll buy it. +11
$0.99 +2
$2.99 +1

The +'s are the vote count. I anticipate more feedback and answers. I may promote the post as well.

I think this is pretty telling of a modern "cultivated" free book site userbase.

There is some focus on what a free audience wants or is looking for in this thread. While I make jokes about digital hoarding, I pinned the maturing free audience as such in December (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,135966.msg1996578.html#msg199657 :

~20% fixed income people that are very thankful and excited to have such a world exist
~20% dipping their feet in ... probably won't be around next month at all in the Kindle book scene 
~20% people new to the free world and soaking it all in - will likely transition to a new category in one month
~10% digital hoarders that will get anything and everything no matter what it is but read only a very limited few front to back (this is still me).. also can be the old-timers of free
~10% people into the "indie" scene looking to be introduced to new authors
*~20% looking to expand their horizon and find new books to be introduced to -- New OR Bargain <----- you want to find these people!! they exist!!*

And I think this still holds true. The last one is growing. People are taking this change pretty seriously. I suspect some people that were once digital hoarders are rethinking that book buy that they will never read.

Here's another data point that I think is very true. And I'm certain I'm not going to make too many friends saying it.

A free book sale is not always a paid book sale lost. Many of the free Kindle book digital hoarders will never, ever buy a book. Never. You can come to their house and read it. Naked. Or not. Whatever tickles your fancy (or, perhaps theirs). It's not going to happen.

When you get tweets saying boy, I'm holding out for part two... You have to understand the personality behind the tweet. That person is very likely is telling you what they mean. They think it's a shame that your next book won't be free. Now they won't be reading it.

Don't read anything else into this. They weren't going to buy it even if it was one penny. That's one penny too much.

However, there *are* people that will be introduced to your first in a series permafree that will read and buy the next book. That's who you should be worried about.

Would you concern yourself over a 1 star rating? No. Why should you? Same thing should apply to someone that says it's too bad they won't be reading your next book because it won't be free. Move on and keep looking to find that person that will pay for your work.

I make a point to stress to that I'd rather my audience be able to pick up a single book that they will actually READ and maybe even (gasp) enjoy from my site. If I can make that happen for someone and save them time in the process, I'm happy.

I for one am in this for the long haul and I welcome the change. Bring it on.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I am concerned about sites trying to work around Amazon's rules to "keep providing freebies." One problem is many readers use multiple sites to find good deals and free books. They don't realize that until they buy a physical product or the 24 hour window expires, ANYTHING they buy is credited to the affiliate link they clicked. If you create a second site, not using affiliate codes, whatever last affiliate code a reader used will get the freebie credit. 

The reality is we abused the free system, and I'm just as guilty. I KNOW Amazon lost their lunch on my last freebie run, Jan 1-3. The math does not make sense. 40,000 freebies in 3 days. 312 sales for the month of January at $3.99 so they made about $312. But then, I had 496 borrows, so they are paying me another $1100 on top, losing them almost $800 plus the cost of downloads. I know I am only one author, but this multiplies every day, for almost every book on the top 100 free list.

We did a reader poll a few weeks ago as part of our long term plans that we've just sped up. We had 296 responses in 3 days. Asked "What do you consider a "deal" price for a full length novel ebook? Check all that apply:"

268 checked FREE
226 checked $0.99
210 checked $1-$2.99
101 checked $3-$4.99
29 checked $5-$6.99
13 checked $7-$8.99
7  checked $9-$10.99
5 checked $11 - hardcover price

There is hope. I see $5 and less as still being seen as a "good deal" for many consumers. We've tussled with Amazon before about terms and conditions in their afffiliate operating agreement and even saying we didn't realize we were in the wrong, fixed what they asked. Amazon does not consider ignorance of the rules to excuse the penalties as outlined in the Operating Agreement.

Sites that play around with this, if you've never been found on the wrong side of the legal jargon, trust me, you're going to get burned.


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## artsandhistoryfan (Feb 7, 2009)

Michael Gallagher said:


> ... my own guess - based on clicks and sales - is the free download to paid download ratio for February is 148:1, and February has been a slow month. I almost resigned my day job last month to do this full time as the last half of 2012 it ramped up significantly and it is 2.5x my salary from the affiliate commissions (or was). That dream is now parked to the side and back to reality.


 I read and passed along your well thought-out posting from last night (I think I used to write you before your FreeBooks Kindle Edition blog when I saw online Kindle tips from you that were great step-by-steps and at the time you said you'd be getting back into things).

On your blog you mentioned ~125,000 daily visitors and an estimate of about 50,000 free downloads a day (I think that's what I read...apologies if I'm wrong there).

But if you decided to keep offering what you do now and suspend your Amazon affiliateship for awhile and have instead an email subscription of $1/mo. emphasizing Select's free books and 25% of those people took you up on this, you'd have a very nice monthly income without relying on Associate income.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

ecrotty said:


> A free book sale is not always a paid book sale lost. Many of the free Kindle book digital hoarders will never, ever buy a book. Never. You can come to their house and read it. Naked. Or not. Whatever tickles your fancy (or, perhaps theirs). It's not going to happen.


Please be advised that any attempt to do the above will require both an appointment (and a photograph, in advance, so I can decide if the police should be standing by).


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

tensen said:


> I don't think they were as concerned about the free numbers as the fact they were paying out affiliate sales. People were coming to the site via a freebie sites and then sometime later bought a book. So the freebie sites were generating tons of affiliate sales, without an associated direct purchase. Amazon would rather have those direct purchases.


Amazon has one of the shortest cookie durations of anyone in the industry. Most affiliate programs have a minimum of 15 days and the average is 30 days. Amazon never had that. In my opinion they are just following the same trail with freebie book sites that they did with coupon sites, they cut coupon sites commissions severely several months ago and free book sites are in their minds another version of a coupon site.

One thing to remember about the Amazon affiliate program is that there is a lot of conversion data available to sites that have affiliate tracking on them. Authors don't have access to the same level of statistics that affiliates get. While it isn't perfect, affiliates can see what link generates what sales, and that may be information that Amazon would prefer no one have.

Affiliates don't get paid for the free downloads, but the sites with huge traffic and huge mailing lists that generate way more than 20k downloads a month and 80% of the "sales" are going to have to change their models. BookGoodies added free book listings to our sites as a feature for readers and not as a revenue stream. Our site has a lot of content other than the free books, and that is what most book sites need to strive for to give authors a long lasting presence instead of a few day "bump".

I see Amazon's move as leveling the playing field for people that can't get into the big site's listings, or afford the highest costs of promotion. I also hope that authors and readers will start accepting bargain books instead of free ones.

Someone mentioned that Amazon Kindle delivery fees start at books priced ABOVE 2.99 and that is incorrect, it starts at the 70% level AT 2.99. I know because I have large file size books since they are photography books and I get dinged from a few cents up to $1 per download.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

jimkukral said:


> I've been in the affiliate business for over 10 years now. This has everything to do with them not liking the attractive free entry point for sites who promote freebies with their affiliate links, which sets a cookie, then potentially backs up to a regular sale and payout. In my opinion, this has zero, nada, to do with their free books, and everything to do with a smart affiliate business decision.
> 
> The only people this really hurts are big freebie sites that drive tons of traffic to freebies. POI, Ereadernews and the like. But you do realize that in order to make decent money you have to drive a TON of clicks. I mean a ton. The payouts on Amazon are so low... it's a volume business.


Where is the like button?


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

ecrotty said:


> The answers (which I provided) were :
> 
> $WITHINREASON - Price matters but if it's good... I'll consider it. +48
> $FREE - I'm only here for the free. +31
> ...


To me, this confirms what I already very strongly suspected: "Some people will only take your work at $0 cost, for the others price is probably the least important factor in determining if they'll buy something."

In short, hook in the former with either permafree or Select, and then make sure you charge decently for the latter because the modern buying audience is fairly price insensitive.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2013)

leedobbins said:


> I have to disagree with you. I have plenty of people email me and contact me through Facebook wanting to buy my next books. I think they are thinking about me and I think the fans of the other authors here want to support them too.


FANS are not the same thing as casual buyers. I think we have a tendency to assume every purchase is from someone who actually cares about us. It isn't. Your fans are important because they help with word of mouth, but the true "fan" that is interested in your personal well-being is a small portion of your customer base. I suffer no delusions as to how important I am in the lives of people who buy my books. They buy the books because they enjoy the stories, not because they worry about my car payment. The only person who worries about my car payment is me.

People don't think through the chain of distribution to understand where their money goes. We pay lip service to things like Fair Trade agreements, but there is a reason Fair Trade companies have such low market share in most industries. Fair Trade requires people reaching into their own pockets and paying a fair price. We pay lip service to supporting local businesses and lament the loss of the corner bookstore, but then we go to Amazon and buy the book because it is $5 cheaper. In this forum, people complain when a cover artist wants more than $100 for a cover because "that is too expensive and so-and-so makes covers for only $50." And these people don't care that the cover artist has bills to pay and $100 barely covers her time.

My whole point is, don't make business decisions assuming that your customers (or business partners) have your best interests at heart. They don't. They have THEIR best interests at heart. If those interests match up with yours, great.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> FANS are not the same thing as casual buyers. I think we have a tendency to assume every purchase is from someone who actually cares about us. It isn't. Your fans are important because they help with word of mouth, but the true "fan" that is interested in your personal well-being is a small portion of your customer base. I suffer no delusions as to how important I am in the lives of people who buy my books. They buy the books because they enjoy the stories, not because they worry about my car payment. The only person who worries about my car payment is me.
> 
> People don't think through the chain of distribution to understand where their money goes. We pay lip service to things like Fair Trade agreements, but there is a reason Fair Trade companies have such low market share in most industries. Fair Trade requires people reaching into their own pockets and paying a fair price. We pay lip service to supporting local businesses and lament the loss of the corner bookstore, but then we go to Amazon and buy the book because it is $5 cheaper. In this forum, people complain when a cover artist wants more than $100 for a cover because "that is too expensive and so-and-so makes covers for only $50." And these people don't care that the cover artist has bills to pay and $100 barely covers her time.
> 
> My whole point is, don't make business decisions assuming that your customers (or business partners) have your best interests at heart. They don't. They have THEIR best interests at heart. If those interests match up with yours, great.


Exactly. Ever read about 1,000 True Fans? You should. This is a mind-blowing thesis.

http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php

A creator, such as an artist, musician, photographer, craftsperson, performer, animator, designer, videomaker, or author - in other words, anyone producing works of art - needs to acquire only 1,000 True Fans to make a living.

A True Fan is defined as someone who will purchase anything and everything you produce. They will drive 200 miles to see you sing. They will buy the super deluxe re-issued hi-res box set of your stuff even though they have the low-res version. They have a Google Alert set for your name. They bookmark the eBay page where your out-of-print editions show up. They come to your openings. They have you sign their copies. They buy the t-shirt, and the mug, and the hat. They can't wait till you issue your next work. They are true fans.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Jim, thank you for posting about the 1000 true fans. I loved that. I have about 50 right now--I mean hard core fanatic fans who have been with me for a decade. They buy everything, tweet everything, post, and it doesn't matter what it is--kid book, adult book, something random. I don't take them for granted.

I feel better having read this, and things seem more do-able than they have in a while.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

TexasGirl said:


> Jim, thank you for posting about the 1000 true fans. I loved that. I have about 50 right now--I mean hard core fanatic fans who have been with me for a decade. They buy everything, tweet everything, post, and it doesn't matter what it is--kid book, adult book, something random. I don't take them for granted.
> 
> I feel better having read this, and things seem more do-able than they have in a while.


You're welcome. I read that years ago and have been energized by it since then. It should resonate with everyone here.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

The 1000 Fans theory is a must read for every creative. Great great stuff. 

In pricing, as a reader I consider any ebook under $4 a bargain (unless it's really short) and I've been caught buying them as an impulse buy (similar to chocolate bar at the store's counter), and $4-6 as pretty good price still. Above that I will spend time and read reviews about book to see. If it's paperback tho, pricing of course can be higher. 

Freebies, I've downloaded some but haven't read a single one. For over a month now. Paid ones do get in front I gotta say.


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## gregm (Feb 14, 2013)

RBC said:


> The 1000 Fans theory is a must read for every creative. Great great stuff.
> 
> In pricing, as a reader I consider any ebook under $4 a bargain (unless it's really short) and I've been caught buying them as an impulse buy (similar to chocolate bar at the store's counter), and $4-6 as pretty good price still. Above that I will spend time and read reviews about book to see. If it's paperback tho, pricing of course can be higher.
> 
> Freebies, I've downloaded some but haven't read a single one. For over a month now. Paid ones do get in front I gotta say.


Agreed I'm a impulse buyer (over 180 books last year just from Zon) and most of those were $3.99 or less.

I mean, I spend more on coffee sitting here 15 hours a day. 

The wife downloads the free ones, and I have to delete them for her as most are not worth reading.(yes a gem appears now and then) If your book is worth reading charge something for it. The only caveat is for a series. If you have 3-4 book series giving away the first one makes sense to hook them in.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

gregm said:


> The wife downloads the free ones, and I have to delete them for her as most are not worth reading.(yes a gem appears now and then) If your book is worth reading charge something for it. The only caveat is for a series. If you have 3-4 book series giving away the first one makes sense to hook them in.


Greg, we use free as a marketing tool which has nothing to do with the quality of the work.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

gregm said:


> The wife downloads the free ones, and I have to delete them for her as most are not worth reading.(yes a gem appears now and then) If your book is worth reading charge something for it. The only caveat is for a series. If you have 3-4 book series giving away the first one makes sense to hook them in.


Are most books that have been free not worth reading? How do you know 1) which books have been free, and 2) they are not worth reading?

Is the set of books that has been free different from the set that has not been free? How do they differ?

Alternatively, are you limiting your comment to the specific set of books your wife downloaded for free?


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## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

At Smashwords, we've always supported free, and always will.  We've been advocating free for 5 years.

All the daily deal and promo email services that everyone has used here with great success are welcome to link the same books at Smashwords, free or priced. We offer .mobi.  We also offer an affiliate program at 11% net.  We also allow authors to juice the affiliate rate to encourage greater affiliate marketing love.

When Amazon tightens the screws like this, they're not doing it for the author's or customer's benefit.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

gregm said:


> The wife downloads the free ones, and I have to delete them for her as most are not worth reading.(yes a gem appears now and then) If your book is worth reading charge something for it.


I do. I charge $4.99. Then, I give it away for free to make sure that a bunch more people can see it at $4.99 again. This seems awfully off-hand and dismissive of what has been, for many, a very successful strategy.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

MarkCoker said:


> At Smashwords, we've always supported free, and always will. We've been advocating free for 5 years.
> 
> All the daily deal and promo email services that everyone has used here with great success are welcome to link the same books at Smashwords, free or priced. We offer .mobi. We also offer an affiliate program at 11% net. We also allow authors to juice the affiliate rate to encourage greater affiliate marketing love.
> 
> When Amazon tightens the screws like this, they're not doing it for the author's or customer's benefit.


The problem is Mark your conversions aren't going to be as high as Amazon's are. Partly because you're not Amazon (duh) which means that hardly anyone knows you. A problem shared by everyone else, not just you. And also partly because your site design is, how to say it? Very 1999-ish. It doesn't instill into a buyer "trust me, we're on top of things and safe and secure, etc..." At least to me it doesn't. Less conversions = less $$$ for the affiliate.

You have a real opportunity here as I'm sure you realize. Amazon pays hardly nothing to affiliates. My site would consider offering SW affiliate links if we felt better about actually making conversions from your site. I'm sure others would as well. In fact, just by you posting this I'm going to put my team on looking into it and might just try some testing with it. Thanks for stopping by.


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## BenEBrewer (Nov 5, 2012)

MarkCoker said:


> At Smashwords, we've always supported free, and always will. We've been advocating free for 5 years.
> 
> All the daily deal and promo email services that everyone has used here with great success are welcome to link the same books at Smashwords, free or priced. We offer .mobi. We also offer an affiliate program at 11% net. We also allow authors to juice the affiliate rate to encourage greater affiliate marketing love.
> 
> When Amazon tightens the screws like this, they're not doing it for the author's or customer's benefit.


*I wish there was a way to promote your post to every writer in select *

For those with a huge amount of downloads of free books - is it not plausible to transfer to Smashwords/B&N/Kobo affiliates? - Just a thought, don't bite me 'ead off!

I use AA over at http://eroticaebooks.info and many other sites but I will never rely only on one affiliate association - eggs and baskets?  Personally I've never been in the business of promoting free products - _*never work for free*_ was always pumped into my skull when I younger!

But those who have been sorely affected by this - I hope there is light at the end!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Shawn Inmon said:


> I do. I charge $4.99. Then, I give it away for free to make sure that a bunch more people can see it at $4.99 again. This seems awfully off-hand and dismissive of what has been, for many, a very successful strategy.


And not the first time he's said it.

Free as a marketing tool has been used successfully in many different areas and industries.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

More to the point, free at Smashwords doesn't get you paid sales later, the way it does at Amazon.


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## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

jimkukral said:


> The problem is Mark your conversions aren't going to be as high as Amazon's are. Partly because you're not Amazon (duh) which means that hardly anyone knows you. A problem shared by everyone else, not just you. And also partly because your site design is, how to say it? Very 1999-ish. It doesn't instill into a buyer "trust me, we're on top of things and safe and secure, etc..." At least to me it doesn't. Less conversions = less $$$ for the affiliate.
> 
> You have a real opportunity here as I'm sure you realize. Amazon pays hardly nothing to affiliates. My site would consider offering SW affiliate links if we felt better about actually making conversions from your site. I'm sure others would as well. In fact, just by you posting this I'm going to put my team on looking into it and might just try some testing with it. Thanks for stopping by.


Hi Jim, yeah, I won't quibble on our design (we will update it this year), though for a direct hyperlink to our product pages, it's not a bad experience. Our book pages are simple and straightforward, with no clutter. The purchase button is right where you'd expect it. For a free book, the download is completely frictionless - they don't even need to register or log in. For a paid book, yes, there's more friction vs. Amazon because the reader must take the extra steps to move the .mobi to their Kindle, and if they've never done that before, there's a short learning curve. For that reason alone, Amazon would probably have higher conversion rates for Kindle customers. The quality of our .mobi formatting is often better than Amazon's for our Premium Catalog titles, for the simple reason Amazon's permissive of things we'd reject, like doing the entire body of a novel with first-line-indented block paragraphs. If folks link to us for nothing other than free books, that would be great. Or, if you provide your customers the option to get their books either at Amazon or Smashwords, that would be great too because our multiple formats support all devices.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Cherise Kelley said:


> More to the point, free at Smashwords doesn't get you paid sales later, the way it does at Amazon.


However, you can put the first book in a series free on the other venues through SW. I'll let you know in a couple of months how that works.


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## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

Cherise Kelley said:


> More to the point, free at Smashwords doesn't get you paid sales later, the way it does at Amazon.


A free download at SW won't game your rank at Amazon and get you that sales echo when you go off-free, but it will get you a reader. If you wow them with your free book, they'll want to buy your other books either at Smashwords or elsewhere. With Amazon essentially eliminating the ability of affiliates to drive huge readership to free books at Amazon, Smashwords is a no-brainer option for authors and affiliates alike.

Smashwords, and retailers we distribute to (Apple iBookstore, Barnes & Noble, Sony, Kobo), all support free and perma-free, and all without any strings attached.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

MarkCoker said:


> At Smashwords, we've always supported free, and always will. We've been advocating free for 5 years.
> 
> All the daily deal and promo email services that everyone has used here with great success are welcome to link the same books at Smashwords, free or priced. We offer .mobi. We also offer an affiliate program at 11% net. We also allow authors to juice the affiliate rate to encourage greater affiliate marketing love.
> 
> When Amazon tightens the screws like this, they're not doing it for the author's or customer's benefit.


I've written to your affiliate manager and your publicity person to have you come on a podcast at BookGoodies.com to be able to talk about Smashwords. We even have a category dedicated to Smashwords books and have added your link to our Tell Us About Your Books pages. We would love to partner more closely with you, but aren't getting any responses from your people. Feel free to email me at dc at bookgoodies.com to discuss ways we can partner more closely.

Thanks for stopping by!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

gregm said:


> Agreed I'm a impulse buyer (over 180 books last year just from Zon) and most of those were $3.99 or less.
> 
> I mean, I spend more on coffee sitting here 15 hours a day.
> 
> The wife downloads the free ones, and I have to delete them for her as most are not worth reading.(yes a gem appears now and then) If your book is worth reading charge something for it. The only caveat is for a series. If you have 3-4 book series giving away the first one makes sense to hook them in.


What is interesting about that statement is the degree to which it is a total misconception and perhaps an interesting look what may or may not be widespread assumptions.

The first is the apparent assumption that if a book is free today that it is usually free. With so many books in Select, this is an obvious misconception. Admittedly there are some perma-free books out there, but they are the exception. On Amazon the majority of novels that are "free" are on promotion for a few days, so this gentleman might buy the same book that he deleted because it was free. This brings us to the assumption which obviously some people have (I have no idea how many but I have received 5-star reviews from freebies) that any free book must be bad.


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## BenEBrewer (Nov 5, 2012)

MarkCoker said:


> A free download at SW won't game your rank at Amazon and get you that sales echo when you go off-free, but it will get you a reader. If you wow them with your free book, they'll want to buy your other books either at Smashwords or elsewhere. With Amazon essentially eliminating the ability of affiliates to drive huge readership to free books at Amazon, Smashwords is a no-brainer option for authors and affiliates alike.
> 
> Smashwords, and retailers we distribute to (Apple iBookstore, Barnes & Noble, Sony, Kobo), all support free and perma-free, and all without any strings attached.


Hi Mark,

The problem I've always had at Smashwords is that you can't accept books in a series (this may be supplier issues), a lot of books and marketing ploys are created now across a series of books and Amazon is the perfect place to do that. I came out of select to publish through Smashwords Premium catalog but I got an email saying that serial or books in series are not accepted.

_For me that's the crunch point. _

Your affiliate program is most definitely the easiest to contend with and the rate is superb, there's no argument there, but like Jim said - it's all about the conversion rate and until a few changes are made then I personally cannot see anything beating Amazon (unless Kobo pull their finger out)

But that won't stop me and countless others promoting Smashwords to a wider audience! Look forward to the re-design


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> You have a real opportunity here as I'm sure you realize. Amazon pays hardly nothing to affiliates. My site would consider offering SW affiliate links if we felt better about actually making conversions from your site. I'm sure others would as well. In fact, just by you posting this I'm going to put my team on looking into it and might just try some testing with it. Thanks for stopping by.


The base affiliate payout is 11%. Some folks juice that higher (mine is set to 15% so feel free to link to my books ) So considering the increased revenue per sale, if an affiliate SERIOUSLY use the affiliate links they could make significant money. Lack of sales at Smashwords is a self-fullfilling prophesy. If you only promote Amazon links on your site, you shouldn't be surprised when all of your sales come from Amazon.

Though that said, *pokes Mark* now would be a good time to reorganize the site to make it more customer friendly. The landing page is still gods-aweful.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

BenEBrewer said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> The problem I've always had at Smashwords is that you can't accept books in a series (this may be supplier issues), a lot of books and marketing ploys are created now across a series of books and Amazon is the perfect place to do that. I came out of select to publish through Smashwords Premium catalog but I got an email saying that serial or books in series are not accepted.
> 
> _For me that's the crunch point. _


I'm not sure what this is about - I have a series of mystery novels on Smashwords right now, with the first one free, and I am sure having the chance to read the first one for free often generates sales of the others. Surely I can't be the only one?


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

MarkCoker said:


> Hi Jim, yeah, I won't quibble on our design (we will update it this year), though for a direct hyperlink to our product pages, it's not a bad experience. Our book pages are simple and straightforward, with no clutter. The purchase button is right where you'd expect it. For a free book, the download is completely frictionless - they don't even need to register or log in. For a paid book, yes, there's more friction vs. Amazon because the reader must take the extra steps to move the .mobi to their Kindle, and if they've never done that before, there's a short learning curve. For that reason alone, Amazon would probably have higher conversion rates for Kindle customers. The quality of our .mobi formatting is often better than Amazon's for our Premium Catalog titles, for the simple reason Amazon's permissive of things we'd reject, like doing the entire body of a novel with first-line-indented block paragraphs. If folks link to us for nothing other than free books, that would be great. Or, if you provide your customers the option to get their books either at Amazon or Smashwords, that would be great too because our multiple formats support all devices.


Most folks like Smashwords already, no need to toot your own horn a lot when you get a good constructive criticism. Looking forward to see new design, it will probably improve things a lot. Also, I'm not sure, as a reader, is there a mobile app that let's me log in and search for books on iPad Mini. Let me buy there and download straight to iPad. Basically, where's your iTunes? You're in good position so with these updates you'd be even better.

Also, maybe we will see SW partnering up with GoodReads on something? That could be huge.

Amazon actually does a favor to SW and authors with it's new updates. Now most promotions will be for discounted books, which means at least some royalties and discovery at the same time.. Free isn't bad but it's not be-all-end-all solution. It should be used strategically. It also means that less people will go to Select and that means more uploads to SW. All benefits the authors greatly.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Greg, we use free as a marketing tool which has nothing to do with the quality of the work.


It does sometimes.. it doesn't sometimes. Don't take this personally.. it's just insight into customer's mind. There is a reason people say ''you get what you pay for''.. and if it's not always true about quality of work, it can also be true about quality of a buyer or in this case reader, some just take free books and read those, don't bother to look for paid ones from author (and it happens in every field, not just books.. ) not saying don't use free as promo strategy but it shouldn't be main one. To reiterate, I have downloaded some free books, haven't read single one. Paid ones get in line first. I do appreciate paid thing more than free (fair or not..).


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

JRTomlin said:


> What is interesting about that statement is the degree to which it is a total misconception and perhaps an interesting look what may or may not be widespread assumptions.
> 
> The first is the apparent assumption that if a book is free today that it is usually free. With so many books in Select, this is an obvious misconception. Admittedly there are some perma-free books out there, but they are the exception.


The reason people assume a free book will always be free is because Amazon has no visual mechanism in place to allow the illustration of a sale. We don't actually put books on "sale" with Amazon. You change your list price. For the average consumer, there are miles of difference between seeing this:



> List Price: $2.99
> Sale price: Free


and this:



> List Price: Free


Consumers believe the list price is just that, the normal price of the product. Why do you think every other industry on the planet has a list price? The list price is what sets the expectation. It's why when Shoprite runs a sale, it doesn't just change the list price. It continues to show the list price along with the sale price. List price = normal price. It's why WalMart has those huge signs with the smilie faces on them that show the "Suggested Price" along with their price. It's why Kellog's issues coupons all the time instead of just lowering their price. Price preservation is a big deal. Companies don't screw with their list prices because they don't want to condition customers to the lower price.


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## grlindberg (Jan 19, 2012)

I know this isn't a forum about Smashwords, but just a note. I like the concept behind Smashwords. The reason I don't put my own and (and my other authors') books in Smashwords when not in SELECT is very simple. I'd have to go back to the original Word doc and start all over again with eBook formatting. Right now I import my Word doc into Adobe InDesign, clean it up, change some text, then publish to PDF and upload to CreateSpace for publishing proofs that I crowdsource for typos and other issues. Then we clean up the InDesign document even more based on crowdsourcing, and use InDesign to generate an EPUB version. This goes into SIGIL for extensive formatting clean-up and insertion of book ads at the end (only in the eBook versions) and building and testing of a TABLE OF CONTENTS (which Kindle likes). Then the EPUB version is converted to MOBI and tested, then sent off to Amazon.

It would be far too much work to consolidate all the changes from InDesign back into the Word doc, and then start all over from scratch formatting the Word doc into EPUB again. InDesign is our official version for maintaining changes in all versions. We already have an extremely refined EPUB and MOBI version after completing the steps above. If we could load those files into Smashwords, we'd probably do it. But right now, it adds unnecessary workflow steps. Plus we would have to manage changes in yet another batch of eBook versions. Ugh!

So I ask Mark, will you ever accept existing EPUB and MOBI files at Smashwords?


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The reason people assume a free book will always be free is because Amazon has no visual mechanism in place to allow the illustration of a sale. We don't actually put books on "sale" with Amazon. You change your list price.
> ...
> Price preservation is a big deal. Companies don't screw with their list prices because they don't want to condition customers to the lower price.


This is actually a good reason to include Smashwords as part of your ebook promotion strategy. You can put your book on Smashwords and use coupons to offer discounts, all the while preserving your list price. Only customers who have your "secret code" get the special pricing. Promoted properly, that sense of scarcity and exclusivity is even more powerful than a sale price.

You could do the same thing with your own shopping cart site if you have one that supports coupons, but Smashwords is a good choice for the less technically inclined.

As for sites wanting affiliate sales, Smashwords has always been a good alternative to Amazon from a commission perspective. The real question is, "Are readers willing to buy books from Smashwords and side-load them?" (That's two separate issues, really.) I've been told by KB people that side-loading is not an issue. I've also talked with readers who have no idea what side-loading is or that it is possible. I have no idea if the small learning curve Mark talked about adds enough friction to cost me the sale.



grlindberg said:


> So I ask Mark, will you ever accept existing EPUB and MOBI files at Smashwords?


SW started accepting EPUB in December. I'm not sure, but I think they may generate a MOBI from that. What you don't get are all the other formats you would get if you upload a Word file. Also, you can upload both an EPUB and a Word file to get the full range of file format options.


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## summerdaniels71 (Jul 23, 2011)

Looks like the FREE Kindle books are being tracked now ... if you go to the "Miscellaneous Referrals" page of your Amazon Affiliate reports.

Only looks like the data from February 25th is accurate (at the moment).  Looks like they started tracking the freebies very late on the 24th.

One day does not a data point make, but I'm at 85% "free" and I listed 48 paid books versus 7 free books on Monday.

It should be interesting to see what today's numbers look like.

When I post freebies today I will leave off the affiliate code and see how that affects the total %.

Summer


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

Permafree books include a digital list price, a kindle price and a "you save" line too.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

SunHi Mistwalker said:


> Permafree books include a digital list price, a kindle price and a "you save" line too.


But that ONLY happens through price matching, and technically you aren't suppose to be deliberately offering different list prices to Amazon and other vendors to force a price match to permafree (And Amazon has caught on to this tactic, BTW, which is why so many authors have trouble getting Amazon to price match now.

But this was my point. The only way to get Amazon to show a true "sale" price is to game the system and violate the TOS. I don't know of anyone whom Amazon banned from KDP for doing this, but the fact is they could if they decided to crack down on free books.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

RBC said:


> It does sometimes.. it doesn't sometimes. Don't take this personally.. it's just insight into customer's mind. There is a reason people say ''you get what you pay for''.. and if it's not always true about quality of work, it can also be true about quality of a buyer or in this case reader, some just take free books and read those, don't bother to look for paid ones from author (and it happens in every field, not just books.. ) not saying don't use free as promo strategy but it shouldn't be main one. To reiterate, I have downloaded some free books, haven't read single one. Paid ones get in line first. I do appreciate paid thing more than free (fair or not..).


I acknowledge downward sloping demand curves. So the section of the curve below a book's list price contains people who download the book for free, but will not pay $2.99. All we know is they will not pay more that $2.98. Zero is less than $2.99.

But the zero price tells us nothing about the book. The notion that you get what you pay for is wrong in this case. Observation shows that.

People used free as a promotional tool because it worked, not because of some theory. They made lots of money.


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> But that ONLY happens through price matching,


Got it. So permafree books and select books show up differently. That's good to know, hadn't noticed it before.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> But that ONLY happens through price matching, and technically you aren't suppose to be deliberately offering different list prices to Amazon and other vendors to force a price match to permafree (And Amazon has caught on to this tactic, BTW, which is why so many authors have trouble getting Amazon to price match now.


I hope not because I'll be doing permafree in April.


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## MarkCoker (Feb 15, 2009)

BenEBrewer said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> The problem I've always had at Smashwords is that you can't accept books in a series (this may be supplier issues), a lot of books and marketing ploys are created now across a series of books and Amazon is the perfect place to do that. I came out of select to publish through Smashwords Premium catalog but I got an email saying that serial or books in series are not accepted.
> 
> ...


Hi Ben, we don't allow short serializations (such as a full length novel chopped into chapter chunks) or works in progress, but we *love love love* full-length series. Our best-selling, highest-earning authors are doing series (and many of them have the first book in the series at perma-FREE). Feel free to email me at the address in my signature and I'll take a look.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

They send mixed signals about PMing to free, but I've not heard anyone get in trouble if it's free on all other channels. I mean, they have a column in the reports just for that and this is part of the pricing policy:



> E. Matching Competitor Prices
> From time to time your book may be made available through other sales channels as part of a free promotion. It is important that Digital Books made available through the Program have promotions that are on par with free promotions of the same book in another sales channel. Therefore, if your Digital Book is available through another sales channel for free, we may also make it available for free. If we match a free promotion of your Digital Book somewhere else, your Royalty during that promotion will be zero. (Unlike under the 70% Royalty Option, if we match a price for your Digital Book that is above zero, it won't change the calculation of your Royalties indicated in C. above.)
> 
> If we price-match your Digital Book, your Royalty will be:
> ...


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> I hope not because I'll be doing permafree in April.


I'm referring specifically to this: https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/help?topicId=A29FL26OKE7R7B



> Setting Your List Price
> 
> You must set your Digital Book's List Price (and change it from time-to-time if necessary) so that it is no higher than the list price in any sales channel for any digital or physical edition of the Digital Book.
> 
> ...


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## David Thayer (Sep 7, 2012)

This move by Amazon has me rethinking my Smashwords strategy which has been to avoid SW and focus on Select. I have a final promotion on Select this weekend and then all four of my titles are free agents. The gravitational pull of Select has diminished greatly for me not because I'm affected all that much by the affiliate change but because it is a reminder that Gargantua can crush us all even without intending to.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I acknowledge downward sloping demand curves. So the section of the curve below a book's list price contains people who download the book for free, but will not pay $2.99. All we know is they will not pay more that $2.98. Zero is less than $2.99.
> 
> But the zero price tells us nothing about the book. The notion that you get what you pay for is wrong in this case. Observation shows that.
> 
> People used free as a promotional tool because it worked, not because of some theory. They made lots of money.


Again, sometimes it says it all about the book. And in the world where we browse stuff superfast, PERCEPTION is reality. It sucks but it's that way. So you will lose some customers with free and you will get some customers with free. I don't think free shouldn't be used, but it's not best strategy, it's good. But not best. I'd rather see authors do a free giveaway on their website to get an email address back from people. That way you don't depend on anyone, not Amazon not Smashwords..

And another suggestion, if you do free giveaways and have few books like that. Then do one on Amazon/SW and have a link to your website on it to drive people to your website where they can get another one free, in exchange for the email address. That can be short stories given away or something. But at least you are real indy author by building yourself an independent source of fans.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Oh and I mean free isn't bad but it might stop working eventually. As trends change 99 cent books might become the new 'free' and be huge driver of attention to new authors. I mean Select was more effective at the start of it and then was loosing impact (but still worked). So my point is, promotion strategies don't stand in one place. What worked one year won't work next year. Trends evolve and next evolution might be from 'Free' to 99 cent books as a promo vehicle. And that is not bad to any author. 

If SW actually did the same as Amazon now and encouraged people to buy disconted books it would be another step towards trend like this. And again, everybody wins in it.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

MarkCoker said:


> Hi Ben, we don't allow short serializations (such as a full length novel chopped into chapter chunks) or works in progress, but we *love love love* full-length series. Our best-selling, highest-earning authors are doing series (and many of them have the first book in the series at perma-FREE). Feel free to email me at the address in my signature and I'll take a look.


Mark, while we have your attention 

How does a Library enroll in the Library Select program? I can't find the info on the site. I have a project in the works that will involve creating reader guides to indie books, and it will be directed toward libraries, schools, and book clubs. Information on how to enroll in the Select program would be very useful.

I also talked about the program in my last newsletter and I've had some readers ask me how their local library could get involved. I don't have a quick answer for them.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

summerdaniels71 said:


> Looks like the FREE Kindle books are being tracked now ... if you go to the "Miscellaneous Referrals" page of your Amazon Affiliate reports.
> 
> Only looks like the data from February 25th is accurate (at the moment). Looks like they started tracking the freebies very late on the 24th.
> 
> ...


EXCELLENT CATCH, Summer. I found it in mine too. I was dying to know my free/paid percentages even though I don't cross the 20K threshold. You never know when you will. One good Tweet in the right place can make that happen.

*On the subject of Smashwords*--it's super important if you have a lot of overseas sales, particularly in the countries where Amazon tacks on as much as a $2 surcharge, that readers know that they can download a MOBI from Smash instead. I also really push Smash for a free title that hasn't been price matched by Amazon (and note that Amazon only has a problem with price matching if you still HAVE a price--if it's 99 cents at BN but you list it at Amazon for $2.99 to price match and try to get 70% royalties.)

I had avoided Smash over the .DOC issue for years, but changed my mind and supported them after the STUNNING stand Mark took on erotica with PayPal. And now they have EPUB and I'm a happy publisher.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "I don't think free shouldn't be used, but it's not best strategy, it's good. But not best. I'd rather see authors do a free giveaway on their website to get an email address back from people. That way you don't depend on anyone, not Amazon not Smashwords.. "


I can't tell any author what their best tactic is. Free is a tactic in support of a strategy. Those who have had great success with free know it. Those who have had more success with free than any other promotional tactic know it. I'm not going to tell them they are wrong. They are believing their own lying eyes rather than some theory.

I'm delighted to depend on Amazon if that's how I make the most money.



> "Oh and I mean free isn't bad but it might stop working eventually."


Of course. There is no reason to expect a static market.


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## gregm (Feb 14, 2013)

OK, I done putting on the band-aids and aloe cream on the bruises enough to reply. 

The point I was trying to make,(and upon re-reading my reply that may have failed the point.) is that a large portion of people who now own eReaders are not techies. They have no idea of Zon's 'select' program and it's bennies. They are automatically suspicious of anything that is "free". Granted, some titles that are buzzed by WOM sometimes pop up as free. The majority of people out there look at free as a lessor value. The old saying, "you get what you pay for" rings true in a awful lot of people still. These are the people who actually have the resources to purchase you other titles. Then there are many who think everything should be free because they deserve it.

People who hang in forums like KB know better. The point I'm making is people who have bought eReaders, or were given one as a present, or hand-me-down, do not really understand the process of how we market our product, They just don't have the time to spend to learn it.

I'm not totally against free, as I said in my first reply. If you have lots of titles, or titles that have burned out, go for it. But if you only have one or two and you need a confidence boost,(and who doesn't at times) consider $0.99 as a sale item rather than free. One $ per thousand is still more than $0.00 per thousand.

This is only my opinion folks,(and you know what they say about opinions. Like elbows everyone has two) I surly wouldn't criticize anyone here for doing free's, and *I always support the authors here with my buy's.*

-----

BTW: I am not a author. I willingly admit to not having the best command of proper English phrasing, and the use of adjectives, adverbs, and such. I suppose I could write a story, but it no doubt would be a disaster story to the max.  So what am I doing here? Gaining much knowledge from every one of you.(_Thanks!_) I'm helping a author who doesn't know diddley about how to ePub and he asked for my assistance, and without a hesitation agreed to give him my time for "FREE".


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## katiemoe (Feb 1, 2013)

I'll be real interested to read how the Select promo experiences go post March 1st. Mine was already scheduled for March 12/13th before the announcement, and I already did all my submissions so I feel committed. But I have no idea if I'll even get a single listing now. It's all up in the air to see. I guess worst case it runs, it fails, and I'll put it behind me and wait for how the next opportunity shakes out. 

I do like the idea of $.99 becoming the new 'free'. Readers would feel more committed, maybe, to read it. Maybe there would be less overall downloads but the quality of those downloads would be more valuable in building a customer base.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

I just got this press release. I wonder if Amazon realizes they're about to gut the Select program?

It's sad, because Select was getting a second wind with Konrath's latest blog posts. Now, it seems like it's going to be pointless to go free, if you can't get bloggers to promote you. As one blogger said, 20,000 downloads a month as the cut-off is pitifully little.

I think it's going to really boost the bargain books though.

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/amazon-to-change-free-ebook-policy-for-associates_b66039


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

katiemoe said:


> I'll be real interested to read how the Select promo experiences go post March 1st. Mine was already scheduled for March 12/13th before the announcement, and I already did all my submissions so I feel committed. But I have no idea if I'll even get a single listing now. It's all up in the air to see. I guess worst case it runs, it fails, and I'll put it behind me and wait for how the next opportunity shakes out.
> 
> I do like the idea of $.99 becoming the new 'free'. Readers would feel more committed, maybe, to read it. Maybe there would be less overall downloads but the quality of those downloads would be more valuable in building a customer base.


Mine is scheduled for the 28th and the 1st. I'd already gotten quite a few commitments before this happened so it's wait and see if the sites will be able to honor those commitments. Can't blame them if they don't, but I'm hoping they'll follow up since it's the first day of the month.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "I just got this press release. I wonder if Amazon realizes they're about to gut the Select program?"


That idea will be very easy to test.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I'm delighted to depend on Amazon if that's how I make the most money.


Well, then you're not really an indy author because whole point of indy is to have no dependence on a publishing house etc(which Amazon is basically). You wouldn't hand your balls to anyone so why hand your business to anyone too. Basic business sense is, don't become dependent on one client or one supplier etc. Because then they have leverage on you and can screw you up, or inadvertently mess up and cause you trouble. Or if they go bankrupt, you're screwed. So that's why I can't agree with you on this particular point.

And great post by Gregm, people don't know indy book from non-indy, they don't know what the price usually is or is it a good deal or not etc. Perception is reality and authors know more than readers. And that's why for a lot of people free=less. For a lot of people. Not all.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "Well, then you're not really an indy author because whole point of indy is to have no dependence on a publishing house etc(which Amazon is basically)."


I define an independent author as one who has no intermediary between himself and the retailers, and retains all rights to his books. Independents will have many different strategies, and will employ many different tactics in implementing those strategies. Their motivations will vary. Their points in becoming independents will vary.



> "So that's why I can't agree with you on this particular point."


I acknowledge you don't agree with my business strategy.



> "And that's why for a lot of people free=less."


For a lot of authors, their experience shows free=a lot of money.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I define an independent author as one who has no intermediary between himself and the retailers, and retains all rights to his books. Independents will have many different strategies, and will employ many different tactics in implementing those strategies. Their motivations will vary. Their points in becoming independents will vary.
> 
> I acknowledge you don't agree with my business strategy.
> 
> For a lot of authors, their experience shows free=a lot of money.


Well if you are on Select you don't retain all rights. So then you aren't indy by our own definition.

And yeah, it works for some authors but I've seen plenty saying it didn't work either. Some serendipity plays a part there too. Just like in all marketing. Hopefully we will see books at 99 cents become the new trend for promotions and author don't need to go free at all. Win-win!


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "Well if you are on Select you don't retain all rights. So then you aren't indy by our own definition. "


I am on Select, and I retain all rights to my book. Nobody else has any rights to my book. I fit my definition.



> "And yeah, it works for some authors but I've seen plenty saying it didn't work either."


I agree. Hence there is no basis to say what tactic is the best for everyone..



> "Some serendipity plays a part there too. Just like in all marketing."


I agree.



> "Hopefully we will see books at 99 cents become the new trend for promotions and author don't need to go free at all."


I hope authors have all the tools necessary to maximize sales revenue. I hope they have free if that works for them.


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I am on Select, and I retain all rights to my book. Nobody else has any rights to my book. I fit my definition.
> 
> I agree. Hence there is no basis to say what tactic is the best for everyone..
> 
> ...


You're not allowed to put your book on other retailers so you are basically told what to do and what not to do. Pretty much giving the right to distribute book freely given away.

If 99 cents works well, why do free?


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "You're not allowed to put your book on other retailers so you are basically told what to do and what not to do. Pretty much giving the right to distribute book freely given away. "


I have the right to place my book at any retailer that will accept it. I can do that today. Nothing stops me because I have all the rights to the book. I exercised that right in coming to a retail agreement with one vendor. That agreement stands as evidence that I do have the rights to the book. I can do it again by coming to a different agreement with a different vendor. I acknowledge I do not have the right to demand any vendor do what I want.

Your contention that I am not an independent author is wrong. Your contention that I do not fit my own definition is wrong.



> "If 99 cents works well, why do free? "


An author would select free rather than 99 cents if he finds using free results in more total revenue.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Reports for free books are now available to affiliates.

And those who were hoping that Amazon meant they would review sites (the so called "3 term" misunderstanding), that has been resolved, Amazon has clarified that the 2 rules are the ONLY determining factors involved.

The reports reveal what I've said all along.  Free downloads FAR FAR FAR outstrip paid downloads for even small sites.  

This really is the death knell for KDP Select authors hoping to get blogs, websites, etc, to help them promote their free promotion days, it really appears that Amazon does not want authors to have any means available at all to promote those free days.  I've been pretty complimentary about KDP Select with authors, and encouraging them to enroll, that will now change.  I cannot any longer see any value add for authors in giving Amazon exclusive distribution.  The Prime lending fund is not significant enough a source of income.

Also, to address the Smashwords topic that was going on, if Smashwords gave affiliates credit for more than just the single book linked to, and didn't require a new click from the affiliate site for each transaction, it might be an option.  But I say might, because really, the smashword site is not at all consumer friendly or confidence building, and the use of any third party ebook store requires a significant enough amount of customer education on issues like sideloading the books downloaded, that I truly don't feel that most readers will be that open to adopting them.

I also didn't realize they were hostile to serialized content.  I really don't get that at all, and think that is just wrong headed.  I know of a couple authors who are making a nice income off serialized shorts, and really can't see any reason for a policy prohibiting that, especially when you're trying to bill yourself as a serious option to the big players, and thus are already at a significant disadvantage.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

If there are any affiliates out there who would be willing to share their paid:free book posting ratio and the free ebook %, I would love to see them. It could be grim.


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Monique said:


> If there are any affiliates out there who would be willing to share their paid:free book posting ratio and the free ebook %, I would love to see them. It could be grim.


Kindle Free E-books Summary
February 25, 2013 to February 25, 2013

Kindle Free E-book units - 14,606
Kindle Paid E-book units - 222
Kindle Free E-book Units / Total E-book units - 98.50%


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Wow. So, that's not going to bode well at all for bloggers or authors. Or readers, for that matter. 99-cents is going to be the new free.


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Sophrosyne said:


> Wow. So, that's not going to bode well at all for bloggers or authors. Or readers, for that matter. 99-cents is going to be the new free.


It depends.

The writing has been on the wall for a while now that this is the way things were going to be.

It was literally spelled out and confirmed by Greg of ENT months back. If you didn't have a roadmap for 2013 by now, it's too late.

[ ninja edit attempt : added out to spelled -- my comment is also geared towards the site end of things. for authors, this opens up all sorts of new marketing avenuesdepending on what road they choose as the free and subsequent "bargain" book game landscape changes drastically. and, you should choose many roads -- as always. ]


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

they also appear to be making threats that any site that tries to find a way to still promote free books, without losing their affiliate income, such as by dropping affiliate tags from free book links, using second accounts for the free links, or any of the other gambits brought up, will be found in violation of the anti-circumvention clause of the OA, and if they discover it will take action.

They appear quite serious about this.

This says to me that they just very simply do not want ANY third party sites out there linking to their free ebook content.  And that any site that does, and has any ties to their affiliate program, will be penalized.    

I'd be interested in hearing from more KDP Select authors how they feel this will impact their ability to make the free promotion days they get from KDP Select useful to them.  Do you feel you can get value from those promotions any longer in light of how they are trying to eliminate your ability to promote them independently?  Have you come up with another way of promoting them, that you feel will still make them a worthwhile value add in return for the exclusive arrangement?

I've started recommending authors not sign on to KDP Select, and withdraw any books they have in it at the end of the current 3 month period.  I've previously been a pretty solid supporter of KDP Select, because I felt the value add was there.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

ecrotty said:


> Kindle Free E-books Summary
> February 25, 2013 to February 25, 2013
> 
> Kindle Free E-book units - 14,606
> ...


Wow, thank you for that. How many paid books vs free books did you post that day?


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

ecrotty said:


> It was literally spelled and confirmed by Greg of ENT months back. If you didn't have a roadmap for 2013 by now, it's too late.


What does this mean? I know Greg's been doing bargain book promos, but are you referring to a thread on here?

I've been out sick for the last seven months, recovering from an infection that attacked my organs, so I missed a lot. Can you point me to a thread? Thanks!


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Monique said:


> Wow, thank you for that. How many paid books vs free books did you post that day?


I hand select three bargain books a day. It's my hand-picking that I am most known for, IMHO. I also have tools that people can use to discover new reads. Free and non-free.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

ecrotty said:


> [ ninja edit attempt : added out to spelled -- my comment is also geared towards the site end of things. for authors, this opens up all sorts of new marketing avenuesdepending on what road they choose as the free and subsequent "bargain" book game landscape changes drastically. and, you should choose many roads -- as always. ]


Ah! Got it. Thanks!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

ecrotty said:


> I hand select three bargain books a day. It's my hand-picking that I am most known for, IMHO. I also have tools that people can use to discover new reads. Free and non-free.


Okay, so in addition to your discovery tool you posted 3 bargain books (all paid?) and that generated 98% free books downloaded?


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> I'd be interested in hearing from more KDP Select authors how they feel this will impact their ability to make the free promotion days they get from KDP Select useful to them. Do you feel you can get value from those promotions any longer in light of how they are trying to eliminate your ability to promote them independently? Have you come up with another way of promoting them, that you feel will still make them a worthwhile value add in return for the exclusive arrangement?
> 
> I've started recommending authors not sign on to KDP Select, and withdraw any books they have in it at the end of the current 3 month period. I've previously been a pretty solid supporter of KDP Select, because I felt the value add was there.


Personally, IME, no blogger love, no significant downloads, no point. I'm in Select for a few more weeks, and then I'm out.

Although, I have to wonder, given the push that Select got in February, from the big name authors like Konrath, Eisler, Nicholson, etc., if Amazon has something up its sleeve that will keep Select viable. Either that, or the guys have phenomenal timing with their free promos.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> This really is the death knell for KDP Select authors hoping to get blogs, websites, etc, to help them promote their free promotion days, it really appears that Amazon does not want authors to have any means available at all to promote those free days.


Not necessarily. It just means a promotional site can't have any affiliate tags associated with it at all. Which begs the question: Why would anyone put forth the effort to do this? If all the big sites shut down their free offerings, the traffic they drew because of those offerings will either suck it up and stay for the paid offerings, or find other easy ways to find free books. Let's say an author wants to promote his/her own books (without using affiliate tags for that extra few percentage points income). Sounds to me like a good way to get traffic onto your page to find your books is to also feature free books. Want to generate more income? Charge for sponsorships and ads.

Necessity is the mother of invention, and where there's a need, someone will find a way to exploit it. This may actually become a boon for a few authors willing to put in the effort to maintain such a site.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Sophrosyne said:


> Personally, IME, no blogger love, no significant downloads, no point. I'm in Select for a few more weeks, and then I'm out.
> 
> Although, I have to wonder, given the push that Select got in February, from the big name authors like Konrath, Eisler, Nicholson, etc., if Amazon has something up its sleeve that will keep Select viable. Either that, or the guys have phenomenal timing with their free promos.


Keeping my foot in the door because I'm sure Amazon will find a way to make Select attractive again. I certainly have enough titles that I can be very select-ive about what I want to stay in and what I want to pull out because I think it can benefit from permafree.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Now is the time for entrepreneurs to take a look at what Bookbub is doing so well.

Currently, Bookbub is in a position to turn away authors who are willing to pay a lot of money for their listing. Bookbub makes cash by selling ad space AND via affiliate links.
If they dropped freebies entirely they'd still be doing rather well. I haven't had a freebie book offer from them in a while. While discounted, they move paid books. 

We need more venues like this.  I'd certainly be willing to pay for ads, within reason


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Quiss said:


> Now is the time for entrepreneurs to take a look at what Bookbub is doing so well.
> 
> Currently, Bookbub is in a position to turn away authors who are willing to pay a lot of money for their listing. Bookbub makes cash by selling ad space AND via affiliate links.
> If they dropped freebies entirely they'd still be doing rather well. I haven't had a freebie book offer from them in a while. While discounted, they move paid books.
> ...


I like what they do, and have used their services. I just wish they weren't so expensive. Their prices do make me think long and hard about advertising with them, but I guess that's how they can manage to remain so "exclusive."


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Saul Tanpepper said:


> Not necessarily. It just means a promotional site can't have any affiliate tags associated with it at all. Which begs the question: Why would anyone put forth the effort to do this? If all the big sites shut down their free offerings, the traffic they drew because of those offerings will either suck it up and stay for the paid offerings, or find other easy ways to find free books. Let's say an author wants to promote his/her own books (without using affiliate tags for that extra few percentage points income). Sounds to me like a good way to get traffic onto your page to find your books is to also feature free books. Want to generate more income? Charge for sponsorships and ads.
> 
> Necessity is the mother of invention, and where there's a need, someone will find a way to exploit it. This may actually become a boon for a few authors willing to put in the effort to maintain such a site.


And how will the author get the people to know about them in the first place so they go to the author's sites?

You surely see the bad logic in your thinking?


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "I'd be interested in hearing from more KDP Select authors how they feel this will impact their ability to make the free promotion days they get from KDP Select useful to them."


First I'd want to see if any of the algorithm students can offer some help. Is the bump in the popularity list following free based on the number of free downloads, or the free ranking derived from those downloads?

Those are two very different things. If it was based on free ranking, this whole thing would have no effect. If based on number of free downloads, it has a significant effect.

I think either option could have produced the results we have seen. Opinions of the better informed?


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Quiss said:


> Now is the time for entrepreneurs to take a look at what Bookbub is doing so well.
> 
> Currently, Bookbub is in a position to turn away authors who are willing to pay a lot of money for their listing. Bookbub makes cash by selling ad space AND via affiliate links.
> If they dropped freebies entirely they'd still be doing rather well. I haven't had a freebie book offer from them in a while. While discounted, they move paid books.
> ...


Bookbub uses amazon affiliate tags in their kindle links.

Also, people are always leery of sites that require them to give their email to get the content.

I myself used a trash email account I keep for these purposes just to check them out.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> And how will the author get the people to know about them in the first place so they go to the author's sites?
> 
> You surely see the bad logic in your thinking?


Take a moment and reread what I wrote.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Terrence OBrien said:


> First I'd want to see if any of the algorithm students can offer some help. Is the bump in the popularity list following free based on the number of free downloads, or the free ranking derived from those downloads?
> 
> Those are two very different things. If it was based on free ranking, this whole thing would have no effect. If based on number of free downloads, it has a significant effect.
> 
> I think either option could have produced the results we have seen. Opinions of the better informed?


Almost positive it's number of free downloads. The download-based formula works so well you can predict where you'll land on the pop lists before your freebies are actually factored in.

You could confirm it if you had two books that hit the same rank but spent different amounts of time at that rank--e.g., a book that hit #10 on one day, vs a book that hit and stuck around at #10 over 2+ days. If they land at the same place on the pop lists, maybe it's rank after all. But if their pop list placement differs, then it's probably number of downloads.

Maybe that information's already handy on the Mega-Thread or elsewhere. (Or I'll put out the Phoenix Signal...) Like I said, I'm all but certain it's the downloads, but it's worth exploring.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Ok. The one vs two day test would be a pretty good indicator. Thanks.

Presuming numbers of free are used, I'd answer Walsh's question by saying I'd wait to see how all the cascading changes that follow Amazon's change fall out. I dont know.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> First I'd want to see if any of the algorithm students can offer some help. Is the bump in the popularity list following free based on the number of free downloads, or the free ranking derived from those downloads?


This feels like a trick question. Aren't free ranking and the number of free downloads directly related? If customers download 20,000 of my books, won't I have a better free ranking than if they download 1,000? Sorry if I'm reading the question wrong.

My understanding was that ranking is directly related to sales (or in the case of free, downloads). Is that incorrect? I know the recommendation lists are another story entirely.


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

DRMarvello said:


> This feels like a trick question. Aren't free ranking and the number of free downloads directly related? If customers download 20,000 of my books, won't I have a better free ranking than if they download 1,000? Sorry if I'm reading the question wrong.
> 
> My understanding was that ranking is directly related to sales (or in the case of free, downloads). Is that incorrect? I know the recommendation lists are another story entirely.


My brother and I are directly related and if I catch him in bed with my wife, I'm going to punch him in his face.

The element you're missing is time.

If you have 20k downloads of one book and 1k of another over the same period of time, the 20k is obviously going to rank higher. If you have 20k downloads of one thing over the course of a week and 20k downloads of another thing over the course of a year, the rankings aren't likely to be similar.

Something that has ranked at #10 for two days has had more downloads than something ranked at #10 for one day. When it comes off free, Ed is suggesting that the book ranked #10 for two days will be ranked higher than the one ranked at #10 for one day because it has more downloads. If it were simply ranking that was carried over, the two would have the same rank on the paid list when coming off free.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Wouldn't a way to get around it be to put Amazon affiliate tags in the paid-book listings on the emails you send out to customers, while having the free books listed but not using affiliate tags on them? That's what I would do.

Seriously. If I knew how to get one of those emails up and running, I'd tag all the paid books with affliate-linked tags, and none of the free books. That way, you're not running afoul of Amazon, you still get all the customer good will for listing free books, and your affiliate-sales will go up. 

Or is that not feasible?


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Sophrosyne said:


> Wouldn't a way to get around it be to put Amazon affiliate tags in the paid-book listings on the emails you send out to customers, while having the free books listed but not using affiliate tags on them? That's what I would do.
> 
> Seriously. If I knew how to get one of those emails up and running, I'd tag all the paid books with affliate-linked tags, and none of the free books. That way, you're not running afoul of Amazon, you still get all the customer good will for listing free books, and your affiliate-sales will go up.
> 
> Or is that not feasible?


The affiliate cookie stays active for 24 hours. If someone buys one book through your affiliate link, and goes on to download 150 free books whether you linked them or not, they're flagged on your affiliate code.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Gregory Lynn said:


> The affiliate cookie stays active for 24 hours. If someone buys one book through your affiliate link, and goes on to download 150 free books whether you linked them or not, they're flagged on your affiliate code.


Well, that seems like they're making it impossible. If 200 people click on your affliate-linked pay book, and then go and download the top 100 free books, then you're in violation of Amazon rules. That's just frustrating.

I think, on my affiliate code, I only get paid for the first thing the person buys, I don't get credit for everything they buy. At least, that's what happened when I've clicked on my affiliate code to shop on Amazon. Is it possible that they're changing the codes, to only give you credit for one-buy per click? And that's why they set up the 20,000 rule?

I'm just guessing here, so I could be totally off-base.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

We're fine (and no, not in a Barnes and Noble "we're fine, we're just closing stores" kind of way).

Only one day of data and I can't share exact numbers, but since we stopped posting any free ebooks three days ago, I can say we still logged some free ebook downloads in our report. Thankfully, we were under the dreaded 80%, but not by much, so I don't think it's a coincidence that Amazon came up with that number.

I am hopeful as we move forward with no free ebooks, we will steadily improve on our ratio of free to paid ebooks. That is our goal.

Finally, I've looked and looked and even dusted off some statistics definitions I haven't used in almost a decade... so far, our total products sold in a day haven't moved a blip. What has changed is we are selling more ebooks in ratio to other Amazon goods than when we were posting the free ebooks. 

I will say that if you haven't read and understood the pages of rules for being an affiliate, now is DEFINITELY the time to do so. Otherwise, you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of things, and that's not fun.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Gregory Lynn said:


> Something that has ranked at #10 for two days has had more downloads than something ranked at #10 for one day. When it comes off free, Ed is suggesting that the book ranked #10 for two days will be ranked higher than the one ranked at #10 for one day because it has more downloads. If it were simply ranking that was carried over, the two would have the same rank on the paid list when coming off free.


Gotcha. I can't test this because I can't go free, but what if free ranking/downloads are unrelated to paid ranking entirely? If ranking is truly just based on sales, it's possible that Amazon ignores the free activity entirely for paid ranking purposes.

Here's an example of what I'm thinking. Say my book sells for $2.99 and ranks 10,000. I make it free for two days. During the two days free, my paid ranking drops at the rate it normally would if I had no sales for two days. My book goes back to being $2.99. Initially, my paid ranking has fallen, but even if my *normal* sales rate kicks back in, I'll quickly return to my prior ranking. Let's assume now that my free promotion got my book enough attention to carry over into a few extra paid sales for a while. My ranking would naturally go up above its normal level, making it look like I got a bump from going free, when really all that happened was the *promotion* of going free gave me extra attention for a while.

This scenario would be easy enough to test. Anyone who gets hourly ranking reports should be able to see where their ranking is immediately after coming off free and then watch what happens to it afterward.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Well, bestseller ranking is a separate system from popularity list ranking. Freebies aren't counted toward bestseller rank, but they are toward popularity rank. The latter's proven by the presence of permafree books on the popularity lists.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

DRMarvello said:


> This feels like a trick question. Aren't free ranking and the number of free downloads directly related? If customers download 20,000 of my books, won't I have a better free ranking than if they download 1,000? Sorry if I'm reading the question wrong.
> 
> My understanding was that ranking is directly related to sales (or in the case of free, downloads). Is that incorrect? I know the recommendation lists are another story entirely.


They are related. Rank is a function of downloads. If we have a list of downloads, we can determine rank. However, if we have a list of ranks, we cannot determine downloads.

The same rank list can come from many different download lists. So a rank of 50 might represent 1,000 downloads one day, and 5000 the next week.


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Monique said:


> Okay, so in addition to your discovery tool you posted 3 bargain books (all paid?) and that generated 98% free books downloaded?


I suspect the other book promotion on the site, which includes 15 daily free hand picked books, plays a part too. I don't have the data to back that assertion up just yet but I'd assume it is plausible that free drives the free.

I have not been taking on sponsored books for some time now to work on the site. Prior to today, I did not have a reason to create unique affiliate ids on the site for each unique section.

However, now that we can see our numbers, I will be making some changes to affirm what common sense dictates.



Sophrosyne said:


> What does this mean? I know Greg's been doing bargain book promos, but are you referring to a thread on here?
> 
> I've been out sick for the last seven months, recovering from an infection that attacked my organs, so I missed a lot. Can you point me to a thread? Thanks!


Sorry to hear about your sickness. Hopefully since you are on participating again on KB that means things are on an upward trend for your health!

Here's the post I was referring to :

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,131573.msg1942023.html#msg1942023


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

ecrotty said:


> Sorry to hear about your sickness. Hopefully since you are on participating again on KB that means things are on an upward trend for your health!
> 
> Here's the post I was referring to :
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,131573.msg1942023.html#msg1942023


Thanks! And yes. After months and months and months of testing, they FINALLY put me on antibiotics. It's not fully gone, but it's 95% gone. They're still trying to figure out what the heck it was though. Nothing like being a House patient, with no Dr. House in sight. Sigh.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I think the problem of customers getting free books while still on the affiliate cookie will diminish over time as behavior is changed.

Right now, many of the customers on free sites are so free-hungry that even if you take all the free off your site and give them a bargain, as soon as they click through and get on Amazon, they are going to go gobble, putting free books on your code.

But eventually (especially as Amazon is hiding free more and more--I rarely see even a free also-bought, even on my own free days), this behavior will die down.

We're just in the transition.

I think post free sales bumps are going to super rare since the download bumps were what fueled it, unless Amazon DOES switch to making the free list ranking the important feature and not the overall downloads.

Reaching the top 100 free has been a LOT easier the last few weeks--people reporting their numbers that got them to #20 and above shock me. I have reached 3X those downloads and barely touched the first page of free in the past.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

MarkCoker said:


> At Smashwords, we've always supported free, and always will. We've been advocating free for 5 years.
> 
> All the daily deal and promo email services that everyone has used here with great success are welcome to link the same books at Smashwords, free or priced. We offer .mobi. We also offer an affiliate program at 11% net. We also allow authors to juice the affiliate rate to encourage greater affiliate marketing love.
> 
> When Amazon tightens the screws like this, they're not doing it for the author's or customer's benefit.


Thanks, Mark.

I'll have to look at adding Smashwords again (but the KDP select people signed away their rights to be there, it seems, which gets some of the smaller publisher I've featured).


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

grlindberg said:


> So I ask Mark, will you ever accept existing EPUB and MOBI files at Smashwords?


+1 on this. I've seen some godawful formatting from Smashwords, due to the auto-mangling of the conversion process. If it started from EPUB instead, the converstion to Mobi would be fine (and I have to say, who cares about the ones wanting a word doc or PDF? Except for non-fiction with heavy photography, where PDF, not DOC, is a bonus - these really need to submit PDF and EPUB). Since it appears EPUB can be uploaded, there should be an option for authors to upload that and Word, if they want the formats (or to upload only the formats they want; it's great that you help newbies, but those who produce well formatted formats should be allowed to sell only the exact output they want).

What I'd like to see is an "email to my device" option at Smashwords; sure, it's mostly Kindle now, but no reason it would not work with other companies that care to implement stuff or for those who can check email on their tablets. Let the user configure an email address (or several) and a default format (one per email). Then, after buying a book, they can click the "email me" button and go read.

I also wish more authors were encourage to use "set my own price" instead of free. Not only does it encourage some to actually pay for the book, those who pick it up free get to keep it (same as if using a coupon). Setting it to "free" means it's only mine until the author raises the price, if I foolishly add it to my library.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

ecrotty said:


> Kindle Free E-books Summary
> February 25, 2013 to February 25, 2013
> 
> Kindle Free E-book units - 14,606
> ...


Not quite that bad (but there haven't been as many good free books lately - mine are hand selected). Still, about half that in free books and 91.11%

One affiliate went over the first day (good thing this month doesn't count). He'll be dropping Amazon as an affiliate (and presumably not sending traffic that way).


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Well, I'm glad I don't hit that 20K benchmark because I just realized Amazon only counts the free to paid DIGITAL BOOKS ratio. All the hundreds of other things I sell don't seem to matter, mostly pregnancy tests and ovulation kits and things I thought would balance out my free book on getting pregnant.

But I looked at that new tool Amazon has and my percentage balance was only for books.

Hopefully I'll never touch the threshold as the whole POINT of having the free book in my case was to relate to the nonbook things.


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## amishromanceauthor (Sep 27, 2012)

All right, it's March 1st.  Anyone notice any changes/bulletins on the major book blogs yet?


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Our change went out February 23. The-cheap.net (now thecheapebook.com) no longer promotes free ebooks of ay kind on their site or Facebook pages.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

Digital Book Today and Author Marketing Club seem to be loud and proud with the freebies today.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Shawn Inmon said:


> Digital Book Today and Author Marketing Club seem to be loud and proud with the freebies today.


Somebody is because my free run which had been languishing in the single digits, zoomed up into triple digits in a matter of minutes.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

I've made changes to my site, http://ebookimpresario.com/

A few days ago, when Amazon first reported the Kindle Free E-Book Summary for affiliates, my ratio of free ebooks to total ebooks was about 94%. In the past few days, I've increased bargain book promotions and decreased free book promotions, and stopped using my affiliate tag for free books. I was able to get my percentage down to about 92%.

Since Amazon requires a percentage lower than 80%, my changes weren't nearly enough.

That means that in order to continue getting affiliate income (which has been more than enough to pay all my living expenses) I'll need to keep ebook downloads lower than 20,000. Prior to the change, it only took a few days to get 20,000 downloads. By removing affiliate links to free books, I was able to significantly reduce the number of daily downloads attributed to my account. So with a combination of affiliate tagging only the bargain books, and completely removing affiliate tags when the downloads approach 20,000, I can probably stay within the new guidelines and earn some (greatly reduced) affiliate income.

I recently stopped accepting ads, in part because I didn't need the revenue (because of affiliate income) and because I knew Amazon was going to make some major changes that might affect my site. Now that I know what the changes are, and how they'll affect my site, I have lowered my ad rate, changed my ad policies, and am now accepting new advertisers.

For more information on my new rates and policies, go here: http://ebookimpresario.com/advertise/

David


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Sites fall into different categories:

Some already changed their ways and are where they will be (the sites contacted late last year individually, most big ones)
Some changed immediately (ours did)
Some are hoping they can just increase the number of paid books and do a few freebies and be ok.
Some are still posting free ebooks, and no longer relying on affiliate monies (but they'll need an income stream another way, whether through other ads or author ads).

It's the sites in the last two categories we won't really know probably until April first when they get the first taste of those affiliate monies that added up all month long zeroing out.


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

I'm moving forward with my plans for the remainder of 2013 as they were at the start of the year.

Now that we can see our numbers, it helps tremendously.

These are my numbers of free and paid books sold from the 26th to 28th of February.

Free - 48,267
Paid - 712
Percentage of free to paid - 98.54%

I believe there is a misconception that all primarily free based sites want to only, or can only, promote free.

And that's not a jab to Amazon's position.  I understand 110% why they are looking to make this change.  

It's about value.  And resources.  And the costs associated with them.

Which is why I'm moving forward with my plans for 2013 (and beyond).


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

Shawn Inmon said:


> Digital Book Today and Author Marketing Club seem to be loud and proud with the freebies today.


Bring on the free! At AMC we don't care about affiliate commissions. We realize that readers want free books and we'll continue to give them to them! Our submissions have grown by 20% over the past week. We list ALL books submitted. We don't pick and choose.

So I say it again. Bring on your free books. We'll take them.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Just saw this notice over at Books on the Knob. He brings up an interesting point about affiliate tags:

_Free Books Posts are Ended

In order to comply with Amazon's new policy, I won't be mentioning any free books on my blogs (at least, until their policy changes). Amazon has changed the associates policy to penalize any site whose readers buy "too many" free books in a month by forfeiting their entire income for that month.

I tried to set up the ability to post on another account, that simply would not be paid, but Amazon has said that doing so would result in my accounts being closed entirely. Although some readers have suggested that the links be posted without an affiliate tag, all this does is pushes any credit for that book to the last affiliate site you have been to. This also applies even if you go to Amazon on your own and enter the book in a search there. That Associate might be me or it may be some other hardworking associate whose site you were at earlier in the day.

Amazon Associates Support has also said that if you post links without tags, even on another site, if they can link you in any way, then they'll shut down your account. So, there will no longer be any links to free books at Amazon on any of my sites.

Tomorrow I'll be removing all older free book posts and moving them to an archive site. The Free Books page and links on the menus have already been removed.

If you are going to buy free books at Amazon, please consider clearing your browser cookies before doing so, after arriving at Amazon, in order to avoid costing this site or any other affiliate site their income at Amazon (to clear your cookies, press Ctrl-Shift-Delete, then choose Cookies from the page that is displayed)._


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

David Wisehart said:


> That means that in order to continue getting affiliate income (which has been more than enough to pay all my living expenses) I'll need to keep ebook downloads lower than 20,000. Prior to the change, it only took a few days to get 20,000 downloads. By removing affiliate links to free books, I was able to significantly reduce the number of daily downloads attributed to my account.


Just be forewarned that at least one affiliate program supervisor has indicated that they consider the OA clause that requires us to put our affiliate link on all links to amazon to be enforceable, and that removing the affiliate tag and still linking to free may be considered a violation of the circumvention clause.

The feedback we are getting is that they don't just want us not getting credit for the links, they want the links gone.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Sophrosyne said:


> Just saw this notice over at Books on the Knob. He brings up an interesting point about affiliate tags:
> 
> _Free Books Posts are Ended
> 
> ...


I know Karen has been in constant contact with Amazon to make sure she wasn't violating any clauses. It seemed, at first, they were going to allow the second blog to show free books without any affiliate tags, but I guess they've tightened up the criteria.

Makes me want to either (a) not go to Amazon through any affiliate site or (b) not ever download any free books. I'll try to remember Karen's advice on clearing cookies if I decide to download a free book.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

David Wisehart said:


> I've made changes to my site, http://ebookimpresario.com/
> 
> A few days ago, when Amazon first reported the Kindle Free E-Book Summary for affiliates, my ratio of free ebooks to total ebooks was about 94%. In the past few days, I've increased bargain book promotions and decreased free book promotions, and stopped using my affiliate tag for free books. I was able to get my percentage down to about 92%.
> 
> ...


I would totally buy an ad, but alas, my book is new and only has 3 reviews.


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## Free books for Kindle (Jan 8, 2010)

jimkukral said:


> Bring on the free! At AMC we don't care about affiliate commissions. We realize that readers want free books and we'll continue to give them to them! Our submissions have grown by 20% over the past week. We list ALL books submitted. We don't pick and choose.
> 
> So I say it again. Bring on your free books. We'll take them.


Hear, hear - Jim. The free books will continue on my blog. I love making new discoveries and helping authors out. With a 98% free to paid book ratio - I can't see me receiving any more affiliate income for the foreseeable (it wasn't huge amounts anyhow). But I'd rather keep on providing a service that readers and authors want.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

jimkukral said:


> Bring on the free! At AMC we don't care about affiliate commissions. We realize that readers want free books and we'll continue to give them to them! Our submissions have grown by 20% over the past week. We list ALL books submitted. We don't pick and choose.
> 
> So I say it again. Bring on your free books. We'll take them.


We are on the same page as Jim, we don't limit your books because of reviews etc because part of the POINT of BookGoodies.com is to get NEW authors exposure. We aren't worried about affiliate income, we have advertising and ways other than Amazon Affiliate program to make money on our site. We started out to promote *all* authors and we intend to continue to do so.

I actually see the "big" sites going by the wayside as a positive for authors that haven't been able to get on those elusive lists. Not to say they don't do a good job promoting indie authors, just seems they only promoted a specific selection of indie authors.

So bring em on:
BookGoodies.com
BookGoodiesKids.com

We also have Smashwords and Bargain Books categories.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

What? Zon doesn't want us linking to free books at ALL?

Amazon overstepped here. We should be able to link without codes. I'm very angry they are not counting all the other things I sell as ballast for the free books. Mine is DESIGNED that way. Give a free book on getting pregnant, and they pick up ovulation and pregnancy tests at Zon.

Affiliates are what built Amazon. They brilliantly turned all the budding web masters and baby sites into advocates of Zon and buying online. I was there--I totally remember when nobody trusted online purchases.

I've already moved Amazon to the bottom of choices for choosing the free book. I'll just take it off and link to Smash for MOBI. iTunes has already overtaken Kindle for me anyway. I'll find another pregnancy test affiliate.


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## BenEBrewer (Nov 5, 2012)

jimkukral said:


> Bring on the free! At AMC we don't care about affiliate commissions. We realize that readers want free books and we'll continue to give them to them! Our submissions have grown by 20% over the past week. We list ALL books submitted. We don't pick and choose.
> 
> So I say it again. Bring on your free books. We'll take them.


as they say ^^This^^



> I'll find another pregnancy test affiliate.


^^^Love it!

I've never promoted anything for free but over at http://eroticaebooks.info we take anything and everything, the only actual free promotion we do is through the newsletter and there are no affiliate codes in there, as this is part of the service and the books we feature are from paid advertisers.

The trick is to not rely on affiliate commissions and make sites become financially secure in their own right, so that the earnings from each site can be controlled from your own creation.

I understand that there are sites making big bucks from AA commissions, it's a shame that the new T&Cs will hit you hard but that's the great thing about running digital real estate, you can adapt much more easily to changing environments. If Amazon change, then regrettably you have to change with it.

Now, if only there was a search engine that could trump Google......


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

I am going to watch with some fascination whether or not this affects the number of books in Select.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Looks like it's time to redo the big list of indie links.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> I am going to watch with some fascination whether or not this affects the number of books in Select.


Change one thing and a bunch of other stuff changes. The mistake is thinking only one thing changes while everything else stays the same. I'm guessing Select remains above 90 pct of today's number.

Is there a way to determine how many books are free on any given day? That's another number to watch.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

It might be hard to update the list just yet. Several site sent out notices to us, but others are probably quietly fading away.

My own conversion over the last three days is 90%. Thankfully I don't hit the free book ceiling.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

Don't know if this is an accurate way to tell, Terrence, but plugging "free Kindle books" in the Amazon search engine yields 55,000 titles. I think this is viable because even when you search by "Price: High to low" it still shows the same number and the highest-priced books are still 0.00.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=free+kindle+books

When this number consistently reached 50,000 a day was when I decided I was getting out of the freebie business and figured Amazon would soon be following. To look at it another way, with 1.8~1.9 million ebooks, that means 1 out of every 20 books in the Kindle store is free at any given time. With 300,000 books in Select, it means that there is a chance one out of every six books in the market will be free at one time or another (I know, I know, not everyone in Select uses free days, but still...this is a LOT by any measure.)

Even if free books only devalued the entire Kindle market by five percent, and even if it only cut Amazon's income five percent, that is millions of dollars. (And, I know, I know, it's not a zero-sum game, but still...)

Then you add in the affiliate percentages from this largesse and you may get as much as a 10 percent loss to Kindle revenue. (I know, I know, people who "buy' free books then go on to buy vacuum cleaners because of it...but is it _really_ because of the free book?)

In a chaotic landscape, I look for the simplest answer, and since the Illuminati is boring, I am going with "Amazon has declared market victory and is ready to sell some books and make some money."


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

This Illuminati was awesome.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

TexasGirl said:


> It might be hard to update the list just yet. Several site sent out notices to us, but others are probably quietly fading away.
> 
> My own conversion over the last three days is 90%. Thankfully I don't hit the free book ceiling.


Others are continuing to list free books no matter what. I'm guessing it's going to take at least a couple of months for the dust to settle.

I've had some unsolicited sites retweet my free book. I'm on the last day of a two day run. I don't think any of them were on the ebookbooster list and I don't think I've seen them on the retweeters list.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

If you're watching your numbers, be sure and go back for updated totals. We're seeing more books added to our free and paid totals days later.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

A contrarian could very well see this as an excellent time to go free. Especially given other oddities in the system such as delayed pop-list crunch. Seems like the whole infrastructure is a little glitchy right now. Who knows, maybe the roulette wheel will break and fling your ball to the top.


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## amishromanceauthor (Sep 27, 2012)

scottnicholson said:


> A contrarian could very well see this as an excellent time to go free. Especially given other oddities in the system such as delayed pop-list crunch. Seems like the whole infrastructure is a little glitchy right now. Who knows, maybe the roulette wheel will break and fling your ball to the top.


I'd agree with that, but I wouldn't underestimate the power of amazon hiding the free books under a separate tab. I've noticed a significant drop in downloads on my perma free books since that change went into effect.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

amishromanceauthor said:


> I'd agree with that, but I wouldn't underestimate the power of amazon hiding the free books under a separate tab. I've noticed a significant drop in downloads on my perma free books since that change went into effect.


My perma-free downloads have dropped about 40%, but they're starting to climb again. Might just be statistical variation. Will have to wait and see. I have noticed my ranking slide a bit.


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## FictionalWriter (Aug 4, 2010)

amishromanceauthor said:


> I'd agree with that, but I wouldn't underestimate the power of amazon hiding the free books under a separate tab. I've noticed a significant drop in downloads on my perma free books since that change went into effect.


Ditto. Although, I have to say at the same time I saw this dip late last year, I saw an increase in downloads for my novella and for my paid self-pubbed historical go up significantly on Apple. Now about 40% of my book revenue comes from Apple.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

It makes BookBub the all-powerful Oz, though. My friend hit #1.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

amishromanceauthor said:


> I'd agree with that, but I wouldn't underestimate the power of amazon hiding the free books under a separate tab. I've noticed a significant drop in downloads on my perma free books since that change went into effect.


I wouldn't rule out anything. My theory is Amazon wants to manage the volume of free downloads to a specific target. Changing popularity algorithms is a tool. Changing affiliate rules is a tool. Changing tabs is a tool. Changing perma free rules is a tool.

Changing popularity algorithms reduces return to authors. Disincentive.
Changing affiliate rules increases consumer transaction costs in acquiring free books. Disincentive.
Changing tabs would also increase transaction costs. Disincentive.

If my theory is correct, Amazon will continue to exert pressure until they hit their number.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

TexasGirl said:


> It makes BookBub the all-powerful Oz, though. My friend hit #1.


short lived, I bet. They are still using affiliate links, I suspect to see how their numbers hold up before making changes and deciding what to do.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

For the Amazon Affiliates on this thread, where is the tool in the Associates back end that shows your percentages?  I went looking today and couldn't find it.  I'm only looking out of curiosity, we aren't going to stop listing free books.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> short lived, I bet. They are still using affiliate links, I suspect to see how their numbers hold up before making changes and deciding what to do.


They also do a very large amount of advertising for paid books. Their most popular ads are for paid books, not free. They can simply drop their free listings and not hurt at all.

Bookbub is a very different matter. I rather doubt they will be short lived simply because they are effective.


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## artsandhistoryfan (Feb 7, 2009)

nightfire said:


> For the Amazon Affiliates on this thread, where is the tool in the Associates back end that shows your percentages? I went looking today and couldn't find it. I'm only looking out of curiosity, we aren't going to stop listing free books.


As of right now (or 2 hours ago), BookBub, on the free and paid books I tried (after clicking on 'Deals' at top right) is not doing Amazon affiliate links, anymore, that I can see. The shortcut is not redirecting to anything but the pure basic product link on both types of books. Maybe it took them awhile to get that done.

They're promoting the books for the various retailers and, with 900,000 subscribers, they are likely in good shape with the promised higher standards of books recommended and with such a clean and smooth presentation, even without the affiliate program.

Their author fees for advertising their books is very high. But their pricing page has some very interesting stats on it.
http://www.bookbub.com/advertise/pricing.php

I use popup and ad blockers with Chrome (and Firefox) so haven't had the problem with the popup to subscribe before I could see pages, after the first popup.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

artsandhistoryfan said:


> As of right now (or 2 hours ago), BookBub, on the free and paid books I tried (after clicking on 'Deals' at top right) is not doing Amazon affiliate links, anymore, that I can see. The shortcut is not redirecting to anything but the pure basic product link on both types of books. Maybe it took them awhile to get that done.


We did have a quote from an Amazon email that said simply removing affiliate links is still a violation of TOS that could result in account termination.

We'll have to see what they actually DO.



> For the Amazon Affiliates on this thread, where is the tool in the Associates back end that shows your percentages?


It's under "Miscellaneous Referals."


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

I think that when Amazon introduced free book days, it was like introducing crack to indie writers.

With free books, we could give away a lot of books and get a big sales rush right after. The rush went away after about a month, but that's okay, because we could do it again and again, especially with multiple books. There was always more crack.

Long term, though, it wasn't a healthy way to live. The lows got lower and the only way to feel normal was to regularly do the free book crack.

I'm happy to see Amazon cracking down, or _un_cracking down, on free books.

So, how do you promote your books without free days? Here's some info--not necessarily advice, but info--from my experiments with free vs. $0.99 promos: [URL=http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,144168.0]http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,144168.0.html[/url]

I'm not any kind of marketing guru, so I'm eagerly anticipating whatever the real gurus come up with outside of free.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "Long term, though, it wasn't a healthy way to live."


I've always figured long term success is a series of short term successes. Free was a great short term tactic. Might still be. If it doesn't work anymore, we move to the next short term tactic.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

So I'm compiling a list of how some of the sites are dealing with this...


BookBub: Naked links for free books - tagged links for paid books
Pixel of Ink: Naked links for free books - tagged links for paid books - greatly reduced free listings and significantly increased paid listings
The eReader Cafe: Seems to be alternating between all naked links (paid and free) and tagged links (paid and free) - Also cut down on free listings, and a small increase in paid listings
Books on the Knob: no more free, and kudos for posting a good summary of why and calling it out for what it is
dailyfreebooks.com: naked links for free, tagged links for deal of the day, other pre-done amazon widget ads (this is one of those mass autopost sites that I think are to blame for this policy
ereaderiq: naked links for free books - tagged links for paid books

I know Amazon's affiliate people said that naked links will be dealt with as a violation, but I really think that was a knee jerk reaction to book bloggers "finding a way around" this. I have my doubts as to whether they will really go after that or not.

I know some other site operators are on this thread, what did you end up doing?

I've shuttered my site for now until I figure out a better solution. 1 day of indirect referrals with no free links even being on my site showed me I needed to take a closer look at my options.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> So I'm compiling a list of how some of the sites are dealing with this...
> 
> 
> BookBub: Naked links for free books - tagged links for paid books
> ...


Theses sites are taking all free books that are submitted:

Author Marketing Club has already announced they are not cutting back on free.

BookGoodies.com and BookGoodiesKids.com are not cutting back on free. Links are tagged, but that is for tracking and not a worry about commissions.

AwesomeGang.com is still listing books, free or not. They never actually focused on Free, but offered a featured post on your selected date. They only allow one post per book, free or not. You can comment in your book thread to announce when a book is free.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

andybutch13 said:


> But what I think has happened is that half of the websites that usually feature the book were not able to this time, due to the agreement changes.


You would be right. With the exception of the 2 websites mentioned by a previous poster, and the autobot sites like dailyfreebooks, the real "quality" book sites that used to do free posts are either not doing them at all anymore, or are posting significantly less free than they have before. I'm aiming to reactivate my own site again this week after taking the last couple of weeks to evaluate how to proceed so as to not put my non-book amazon income at risk, and I'm going to go ahead with a plan to list a single free book each day, instead of the 9-18 I used to list.

I find your data interesting, that you are getting ranked with less downloads. I wonder though, how that will impact post promotion sales, and the impact on the 2nd book in the series sales that often happens when a first book is promoted free. I'd be interested in hearing from you down the road on that. If you see the same or close to the same post-free sales boost as you have in the past, then maybe my doom and gloom about how the affiliate change will impact the viability of KDP Select for authors was premature.

Any other authors with data to report on free promotions that started after the 1st of the month?


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

thecheapebook.com is no longer doing free ebooks of any kind on any platform.

We made the switch as soon as it was announced, and we do take ads for bargain priced books.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> thecheapebook.com is no longer doing free ebooks of any kind on any platform.
> 
> We made the switch as soon as it was announced, and we do take ads for bargain priced books.


I've seen some sites like yours still getting a high incidence of indirect free books being credited to them even without listing any on their site. One reported over 1000 on a single day.

Are you seeing any of that from your site?

Will you be keeping "Cancelled" in Select? (btw, on a personal note, last january I recommended your book to my mother after seeing it during the free promotion then, she's eagerly awaiting your "sequel")


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

andybutch13 said:


> Every time I've ran a free promotion for the first book in the Lansin Island Series before, the book has had roughly 10,000 downloads each time, and has reached number 1 in both of its categories below, and has also hovered around the overall top 20 each time. (In the Free 'bestsellers' list - not paid/post-promo)
> 
> Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Fantasy > Paranormal
> Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Fantasy > Contemporary
> ...


This sounds like a challenge.

Challenge accepted.

I'll lead with it in my evening picks. Let me know how it goes!

(i picked it on my own accord on 01/16 so it may already be in the hands of a large portion of my audience ... but im interested in still giving this a go!)


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## Jeanne Lynn (Nov 19, 2012)

I stopped listing any free books over 2 weeks ago and I'm still selling 60 free books for every paid book. My percentage is 98.6! I guess people are going through the paid book link and then downloading huge amounts of freebies.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Jeanne Lynn said:


> I stopped listing any free books over 2 weeks ago and I'm still selling 60 free books for every paid book. My percentage is 98.6! I guess people are going through the paid book link and then downloading huge amounts of freebies.


This is going to take a while to change. Folks get used to checking your site for all the freebies; finding none, they're still clicking through to amazon and navigating to the free book pages. What will be interesting is seeing how your traffic and demographics change.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Jeanne Lynn said:


> I stopped listing any free books over 2 weeks ago and I'm still selling 60 free books for every paid book. My percentage is 98.6! I guess people are going through the paid book link and then downloading huge amounts of freebies.


It will be interesting to see if Amazon acknowledges or cares about the error they've made in penalizing affiliates on the basis of the affiliate cookie. The affiliate cookie is not a reliable indicator of where a sale originated. It never has been. Your situation demonstrates that in spades. If Amazon is going to penalize you by taking away your affiliate income, they should use a more deterministic approach for tracking referrals.


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## sirduncan (Sep 19, 2011)

eBookLister is still accepting free eBook submissions.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

A friend of mine just did a free run that ended Tuesday. She got 80K downloads (POI and BookBub listed it) and is currently ranked #1000 in the paid store.

The slot machine still spits out the occasional big winner.


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

sirduncan said:


> eBookLister is still accepting free eBook submissions.


I notice you are using affiliate tag links too.

Are you just understanding ahead of time that you will be forfeiting any income from the affiliate program then?

Like Author Marketing Club and Book Goodies are doing?

Or are you going to try to manage your links to stay within the 20k/80% limit?


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## wxwalsh (Feb 22, 2013)

TexasGirl said:


> A friend of mine just did a free run that ended Tuesday. She got 80K downloads (POI and BookBub listed it) and is currently ranked #1000 in the paid store.
> 
> The slot machine still spits out the occasional big winner.


She is definitely lucky, POI is being really tight about the number of free they are promoting, and it is really clear how much traffic those two sites can send. Did she pay both sites for the listings?

I think paid listings are going to really be the only way for authors in select to see those kinds of numbers any more.


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## sirduncan (Sep 19, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> Are you just understanding ahead of time that you will be forfeiting any income from the affiliate program then?
> Like Author Marketing Club and Book Goodies are doing?


We are going ahead with our current plans. For now, we'll plan on trying to manage the limits.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

wxwalsh said:


> She is definitely lucky, POI is being really tight about the number of free they are promoting, and it is really clear how much traffic those two sites can send. Did she pay both sites for the listings?
> 
> I think paid listings are going to really be the only way for authors in select to see those kinds of numbers any more.


You cannot pay to be on POI. They take you or they don't. She did pay for BookBub. 400 sales in three days, as of now.


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## AkBee (Aug 24, 2012)

wxwalsh said:


> I've seen some sites like yours still getting a high incidence of indirect free books being credited to them even without listing any on their site. One reported over 1000 on a single day.
> 
> Are you seeing any of that from your site?
> 
> Will you be keeping "Cancelled" in Select? (btw, on a personal note, last january I recommended your book to my mother after seeing it during the free promotion then, she's eagerly awaiting your "sequel")


Hi wxwalsh!

Don't know about Elizabeth's plans for Cancelled but yes, we are seeing too many indirect freebies. There is no way we could share even one freebie a day at this rate.

BTW, I am the founder of The Cheap, normally I lurk and read instead of posting but I do love kboards


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

TexasGirl said:


> A friend of mine just did a free run that ended Tuesday. She got 80K downloads (POI and BookBub listed it) and is currently ranked #1000 in the paid store.
> 
> The slot machine still spits out the occasional big winner.


Congrats to her!

On the other hand, my limited and anecdotal experience was that I received more sales (meaning, "sales" credited to the pop lists, where 10 freebies count as one sale) from a $0.99 bargain ad (ENT and BookBub) than from my freebie promo (ENT, BookBub, and some other sites).

So if she'd gotten 8000 actual $0.99 sales, she'd have received the same bump on the pop charts and also pocketed about $2700, less BookBub ad cost and ENT percentage.

In time, I think we'll see that Amazon, by acting in its own interest, has done us a huge favor.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Jan Strnad said:


> In time, I think we'll see that Amazon, by acting in its own interest, has done us a huge favor.


This was my thought when the changes were first announced. We may have to get used to paying out-of-pocket to promote, the returns will, I think, be greater. And given the higher threshold (cost to promote), the competition for readers will likely loosen up a bit.


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## Heather Walsh (Jan 22, 2013)

Saul Tanpepper said:


> This was my thought when the changes were first announced. We may have to get used to paying out-of-pocket to promote, the returns will, I think, be greater. And given the higher threshold (cost to promote), the competition for readers will likely loosen up a bit.


I agree with you and Jan. Like Jan I just had a successful BookBub run. Only cost me 220 dollars and I'm at 1,150 sales from it and made it to #100 in the Paid store. The ad just ran yesterday so I hope to see more sales in the news few days. I for one am hoping 99 cents is the new free.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

[quote author=TexasGirl]
It's under "Miscellaneous Referals."
[/quote]
Thanks! Found it.


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## FrugalFreebies (Apr 2, 2013)

Frugal Freebies is still continuing to accept and promote free books. I did try promoting more paid books and didn't find it was worth the extra effort. I changed how I am listing the free books, and my readers seem to be happy with the changes. 

After one month the results are in, I was well below the limit and I am feel safe enough to continue.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

We are collecting a new list of sites that are still taking Free Book submissions and Bargain Book submissions.  Please PM me with your site link and other details like paid and free options so we can get a list set up on BookGoodies.com.  

We are still, and always will be, accepting free book submissions.  While other sites require reviews and ratings to post your book, we feel that every author has the right to be discovered and don't restrict what free books we post unless they are of unacceptable content.  We just ask for a few days notice before submissions since we do get quite a few per day.  Link is in my sig.

Thanks for helping us compile the list!


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## FrugalFreebies (Apr 2, 2013)

nightfire said:


> While other sites require reviews and ratings to post your book, we feel that every author has the right to be discovered and don't restrict what free books we post unless they are of unacceptable content.


Frugal Freebies feels the same - I post almost every free book submitted. Things guaranteed to make sure you are not listed? Not including your free dates, not including your AISN number or putting in the wrong number - I've been getting a lot of those lately. Or submitting it too late - I need at least one day before your free days start to get it posted in time.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

FrugalFreebies said:


> Frugal Freebies feels the same - I post almost every free book submitted. Things guaranteed to make sure you are not listed? Not including your free dates, not including your AISN number or putting in the wrong number - I've been getting a lot of those lately. Or submitting it too late - I need at least one day before your free days start to get it posted in time.


I will someday write a blog post about why your free book won't show up on our site  Like not providing the link to the book or submitting at 5pm the one day your book has already been free all day! I'm sure you have some experiences like that too  And for BookGoodiesKids.com people get deleted that submit "Adult" books.


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## FrugalFreebies (Apr 2, 2013)

> Like not providing the link to the book or *submitting at 5pm the one day your book has already been free all day! *


Yes - just got one like that yesterday - saying they hoped it wasn't too late!? LOL

I ask for both the link and the AISN separately, so sometimes I can find the book if they forget the link or submit the wrong one. But I shouldn't have to go searching for an author's book link! 

But without the date? Do they want me to check everyday or just guess??


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