# Will erotica continue?



## TiffanyMonroe (Jul 7, 2012)

Okay, so I think we can all agree that as a genre, erotica isn't going anywhere. It's pretty much always been around and will continue.

But 50 Shades of Gray has provided a new spotlight on erotica and S&M fiction in general. That makes me wonder, will books like this continue to be a part of the best sellers' lists or will 50 Shades be the exception to the rule?


----------



## dennis7450 (Mar 16, 2011)

They will continue to be bestsellers.  This opened the flood gates.  Erotica is now "out of the closet."


----------



## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

There are 3 different BDSM series in the Top 100.  It's not going anywhere, which is a shame, because I find BDSM to be really degrading and exploitive.  What happened to men and women having nice hot sex without bringing whips, paddles, and years of needed therapy into the bedroom?


----------



## Twofishes (May 30, 2012)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> There are 3 different BDSM series in the Top 100. It's not going anywhere, which is a shame, because I find BDSM to be really degrading and exploitative. What happened to men and women having nice hot sex without bringing whips, paddles, and years of needed therapy into the bedroom?


You don't think two consenting adults can have a healthy sexual relationship with a BDSM aspect?


----------



## philstern (Mar 14, 2011)

Is it really healthy? Let's say Anastasia was your daughter, and you became aware of her bizarre sex life. What would your advice to her be?

I mean, you could say erotica is entertaining, but saying it portrays a "healthy" lifestyle is going way too far.

And by the way, if you walked into the living room to find your husband watching "healthy" bondage videos, what would your reaction be?


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

If she is a consenting adult? None of my business. But then I don't find anything bizarre about BDSM. 

eta: you edited your post as I was writing this one. You are going down that same path again you did before. There is a difference of having a sex live with your love and having one outside the home with someone else or something else.  

And erotica is perfectly healthy. Plus we are talking about a fiction book here.


----------



## philstern (Mar 14, 2011)

That's a cop out. What if your "consenting adult" daughter was into drugs? Or crime? Or sat around the house all day doing nothing? Would you just throw up your hands, say she's a consenting adult, and think no more about it?

Again, you can say erotica is entertaining, and it is. But trying to portray it as mainstream behavior is absurd.


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't equate sex with drugs or crime.  You lost me there. Not really sure what you are getting at.


----------



## philstern (Mar 14, 2011)

Here's what I'm getting at.

Women enjoy erotica. And that's fine. 

But because women don't think of themselves as enjoying the portrayal of destructive behavior, they then claim that erotica is "normal", and then get offended if anyone suggests it's wacky, destructive, abnormal behavior.

That's why I ask what your reaction would be if Anastasia was your daughter. And it's dishonest to suggest that you would simply dismiss your daughter's destructive lifestyle as merely being the choice of a "consenting adult." Hence the reference to drugs and crime. They are also destructive behaviors that you would not approve of your daughter engaging in.


----------



## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

Twofishes said:


> You don't think two consenting adults can have a healthy sexual relationship with a BDSM aspect?


I used to deliver pizzas to an S&M parlor. It was one of the creepiest experiences of my life.

Now this is just my opinion but ... as for a monogamous couple, I still think there's something weird in the wiring to get off on a guy whipping, paddling, and or dominating you. Usually in therapy those desires are working out past abuse from childhood. So yeah, it's creepy to me.

If you swap the genres and a book about a guy forcing a woman to dress up like a naughty nurse or maid or other fetish all the time hit #1 on the bestseller list, I believe there would be absolute outrage.


----------



## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

What is it with you and this book?  

ETA: To the OP.

ETA2: GEEZ I can't type today. That was NOT to the OP.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Phil,

you've already had that discussion in two or three different threads. Let's get back to the original question.



TiffanyMonroe said:


> Okay, so I think we can all agree that as a genre, erotica isn't going anywhere. It's pretty much always been around and will continue.
> 
> But 50 Shades of Gray has provided a new spotlight on erotica and S&M fiction in general. That makes me wonder, will books like this continue to be a part of the best sellers' lists or will 50 Shades be the exception to the rule?


Betsy
KB Moderator


----------



## philstern (Mar 14, 2011)

Yes, erotica will continue to sell.

_edited to return to topic. --Betsy_


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh for crying out loud  


Topic.  

I just looked at the charts under just romance, which is were 50 shades are listed, and there are several other steamy things. I see Silvia Day with Bared to you, which is recommended as being similar, although I don't know as I haven't read it. I read other  novels of her and she is pretty good and erotic. There is a few others that look to be more on the steamy side. So I think it did make it easier for other novels to rise up in the best seller lists.


----------



## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> There are 3 different BDSM series in the Top 100. It's not going anywhere, which is a shame, because I find BDSM to be really degrading and exploitive. What happened to men and women having nice hot sex without bringing whips, paddles, and years of needed therapy into the bedroom?


I've never personally used a whip, paddle, or any instrument of torture.
I've been whipped, as a child, but I didn't ask for it (let alone sign a consent form). And I hated it, and cried.
So I don't understand it all.
I don't think I could read more than a paragraph of the 50 Shades books. You'd have to pay me . . . heavily . . . to do that.


----------



## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

Erotica is about as likely to fall off the best-seller lists as web-sites dominated with skin-tones are going to shut down.  It may not be the most openly admitted thing but the demand is always there.


----------



## Steve D Palmer (Jun 28, 2012)

I just had a quick (work safe!) Google and it seems 30-40% of the Internet is made up of websites dominated with skin-tones, and these sites are estimated to hog 40-80% of total Internet bandwidth. It's a huge market so it's not surprising to see it on Kindle. 

Every now and then a newspaper article pops up to say that erotica/porn is driving sales of a new technology; VHS, PCs, broadband, smart phones... Kindle seems to be next on that list, and hopefully that's a good thing for readers and authors of all genres.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

I've removed some posts; trying my hardest to let the discussion that the OP started continue.  While we do allow threads to wander, really, we should at least go a bit farther than two posts before getting derailed.  It's not fair to the OP.  If you want to discuss the 50 Shades of Grey and the BDSM lifestyle, there were several threads recently by the same members here in the Book Corner.  

If you want to discuss my moderation here, feel free to PM me.  Or start a thread in Suggestions & Comments.  I'll be doing some pruning here.  I think the basic question is an interesting discussion.  I'm not trying to shut down discussion on any of these topics; just trying to ensure that this discussion is not killed.  Although that may be too late....

Betsy
KB Moderator


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I kind of think the 50 shades thing is sort of a random passing fad. . . .just one of those things that gets going and everybody's into it and then in a few months it'll pass.  No doubt there will be some copycats before it's all over, however, and the "in" thing is something new.

I note that the covers for the series don't scream "erotica" or even 'trashy romance' or 'bodice ripper'. Not sure how much difference the relative 'classiness' of the covers has made. . . . . I dare say, though, that if the cover image was a girl, scantily dressed and tied up with a guy standing over her with a whip. . . the first softball mom killing time in a book store would NOT have picked it up.


----------



## PaigeAspen (Jun 5, 2012)

I think it'll stay on the bestsellers list forever more, erotica is no fad. It's just recently socially accepted. I've personally read it for years and it's what my friends read.  

P.S. Not all erotica is about spanking or being spanked!


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I think erotica in general is around to stay.  Graphic sex in book form has existed for a long time and has ranged from just a little titillation to full on specialized pornography.  So long as the audience enjoys reading them, then authors will continue to write them .... and I'm fine with that.  

BDSM erotica crossing over to the mainstream bestsellers lists is a fad much like sparkling vampires, zombies and apocalypses have recently spent time on the list of fashionable reading material.  Now it may be a fad with some staying power but eventually they will recede from the mainstream bestseller lists and back into a more specialized niche.


----------



## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

I hope that it doesn't become "commonly accepted" and continue taking over the top of the best sellers list.    To me - its a form of pornography which I don't feel belongs there.  Maybe its my age.  But I just don't get it.


----------



## Katie Salidas (Mar 21, 2010)

I agree with the sentiment that erotica is "out of the closet." Now that it is out there, in the spotlight, it no longer has to be the dirty little secret. I think it will take its place right next to Romance as being a highly popular and lucrative genre. Dare I say that we might see more mainstream print editions on book store shelves now. Of course with that, we have to deal with that pesky little term "Mommy Porn" now. Not sure how I feel about that.


----------



## Tiffany_Rose (Jun 7, 2012)

Yes, erotica will continue. Personally, I am hoping that erotic romance is what is going to rise to the top and all of the Girls Gone Wild type of stuff that's currently out will eventually sink to the bottom. I don't know that that type of story will ever go away, but I can hope. 

Erotica and romance e-publishers started off fiction ebooks at least ten years ago. Now with KDP, PubIt and all the other ereaders out there I believe that the genre will grow and will just get better and better. I'm looking forward to seeing a wonderful future for erotic romance.


----------



## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Erotica is not exactly new. In fact, digital publishers of erotica and erotic romance like Ellora's Cave, Samhain, Liquid Silver or Loose ID were e-book pioneers long before the Kindle was a glimmer in Jeff Bezos' eye. With regard to print books, the British erotica imprint _Black Lace_ has existed for twenty years now. And if you go back even further into the dawn of the paperback era or back to the pulp era, you'll find all sorts of sleazy paperbacks and pulp magazines that were the erotica of their day, even though they are tame or just plain weird by our standards. Going back even further, you'll find Victorian erotica which was pretty graphic and sometimes made _Fifty Shades of Grey_ seem tame.

Even bestselling erotica is not a new phenomenon. _Fear of Flying_ by Erica Jong became a huge bestseller in 1973 largely due to its frank depictions of female sexuality, though I wouldn't call it erotica. There are plenty of other books which became bestsellers largely because they were rumoured to contain a lot of sex.

So in short, erotica is nothing new. It has always existed and will always exist in some form. _Fifty Shades of Grey_ and its imitators, however, are a fad and one that will hopefully pass soon, since I don't care for the stone age gender relationships portrayed in those books.


----------



## philstern (Mar 14, 2011)

What's really fascinating about erotica and Fifty Shades Of Grey is how far the "line" has now been stretched. Suddenly a ton of stuff between the old line and Fifty Shades of Grey has now been mainstreamed.


----------



## Alpha72 (May 9, 2012)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> There are 3 different BDSM series in the Top 100. It's not going anywhere, which is a shame, because I find BDSM to be really degrading and exploitive. What happened to men and women having nice hot sex without bringing whips, paddles, and years of needed therapy into the bedroom?


I think this comes down to a question of taste. Keep in mind, for people who like BDSM, these practices are hot. If you're not into that, it's fine, but so long as the games are between consenting adults, I don't see why it matters. Some people like silk panties; others like paddles. Judging what other audiences like is otherwise futile.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Reminder:  As Betsy has pointed out earlier, this discussion is about whether or not you think Erotica will continue as a genre.  NOT about whether or not you approve of/read/care about BDSM specifically. . . .that conversation has been had before and this isn't the thread to revisit it.  Thanks.


----------



## charlesatan (May 8, 2012)

Depends on what you mean.

Will an erotica book in the future have such a big marketing push as 50 Shades of Gray? Maybe, maybe not.

But as you mentioned in the first post, erotica is here to stay, and it's always been popular, regardless of 50 Shade's success.

I also heard that 50 Shades portrayed S&M erroneously (not an expert, just heard about it from the Sword & Laser Podcast where one of the hosts was at a conventional panel...), so there's room for improvement.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

charlesatan said:


> I also heard that 50 Shades portrayed S&M erroneously (not an expert, just heard about it from the Sword & Laser Podcast where one of the hosts was at a conventional panel...), so there's room for improvement.


That doesn't really surprise me. I always had the impression that the author was basically carrying fantasies to the printed page. I hadn't though that she'd actually researched the lifestyle at all, but maybe she has. I can completely conceive, however, of someone having fantasies and deciding to write them down. . .they'd be 100% colored by her impressions of what she'd read before herself -- or saw as depicted on TV -- and how SHE would want such a thing to go. AND, her audience likely hasn't any real-life experience either so they'd not notice things she got wrong, only pay attention to whether it was ultimately a good story, however they define it.

Again, I think this book series was a bit of a fluke in getting on the NYT bestseller list, but erotica in general, is definitely not going anywhere.


----------



## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Erotica is about as likely to go away as is breathing. It isn't remotely new. When the printing press came along, erotica wasn't far behind. When the photograph was invented, erotica wasn't far behind. The Victorian era had a lot of erotia. Fanny Hill is close to 200 years old. The only thing that can make erotica go away is to actively suppress it, and then all that happens is that it goes underground. With the web, suppressing it is no longer an option.


----------



## Sam J (Jul 18, 2011)

I think 50 Shades is an exception to the rule. It spread due to word of mouth and quite honestly erotica is also not going anywhere. As long as there is demand, erotica will thrive. Unfortunately it also sad to see many authors (at present) writing crappy erotica to make a quick buck and cash in on the 50 Shades gold rush. The moment 50 shades drop out of the top 20, things will settle down?


----------



## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

I think what's funny is that people think 50 Shades is where erotica started. Erotica and erotic romance has been on the bestseller lists for several years. It's a huge market, and NY editors and agents are still requesting to see it. A good story is a good story. It doesn't matter what genre it is. But well-written sex plus a story is going to sell, and it's going to sell well.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't expect anyone _here_ thinks erotica started with "50 Shades".  As to, being on bestseller lists, I guess it depends on what lists you're talking about. Certainly erotica and erotic romance has sold extremely well for years. But I can't recall seeing something that is so obviously erotica on, for example, the NYT bestseller list before. Which is, let's face it, sort of the 'Gold Standard'. 

Certainly there have been books listed where there were sex scenes. But a book that has a few sex scenes as part of an adventure or romance plot is very different than a book that is designed for the sole purpose of writing sex scenes and where the multiple scenes are integral to the plot. Heck, in my experience, in true 'erotica', plot is often very much lacking.


----------



## raychensmith (Jul 11, 2012)

Interesting topic, and I can't begin to say I understand women in any way.  But it might be that it's not erotica that's making Fifty Shades of Grey sell but just a variation of the normal-girl-meets-fantastic-guy motif that drives a lot of popular romances like The Bridges of Madison County or even Twilight.  The stories and, uh, ratings might change, but the underlying emotions--validation of the reader's life--might be the same.  So will erotica continue?  I truly don't believe so since erotica's always been around, as had vampire stories, but when it's linked with the the aforementioned age-old validating story, that's when it'll be popular.  Erotica without that story will just be porn.


----------



## mcoleg (Jul 13, 2012)

I do hope this will bring erotica out of the closet. I talk to a couple of writers on twitters who do erotica and it seems they do not get the respect other authors receive. Some of the people who follow them and read their books won't even RT their tweets so that "erotic", lol, tweets won't appear in their stream. Hope this will change.


----------



## Lanesy (Jun 14, 2012)

I definitely feel this will ignite the genre of erotica. Fifty Shades of Grey has spellbounded a new target audience and I think other authors will know that and look to capitalize.


----------



## Arcane (Jul 13, 2012)

Personally, it will continue. All it would take is one more lucky break, and the industry will jump once again. Because of the diverse genres, authors that know how to exploit them, and human creativity, even things like super hero parody erotica will start jumping off the eShelves as soon as another block buster movie comes out. Think about how many authors have taken Twilight and ran with it?


----------



## Twofishes (May 30, 2012)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But I can't recall seeing something that is so obviously erotica on, for example, the NYT bestseller list before. Which is, let's face it, sort of the 'Gold Standard'.


You think digital downloads and e-readers like kindle are responsible for that?
More on point, do think the demise of the brick and mortar bookstore and the rise of internet book selling(digital and conventional print) has paved the way for the more risque(S&M) erotica's mainstream acceptance? Is the internet itself responsible for a friskier society? 
Do the obvious answers mean S&M erotica isn't a fad? Or are the answers not so obvious?


----------



## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

It will continue as long as people want it.

I think it's healthy that people are openly buying and talking about it.


----------

