# Short Stories Sold Separately



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I posted this on another thread, but realized from the author's response that it was in an inappropriate place. So, I'm moving it here.

First, I want to add that another poster stated, "I'll pay 7 dollars for 16 of them in one collection rather than 1.49 for a single story."

Take a look at _Everything's Eventual_, by Stephen King. It sells for $6.39 for 14 stories. http://www.amazon.com/Everythings-Eventual-Dark-Tales-ebook/dp/B000FC0O40/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1252612844&sr=1-2

I think this is what that poster was referring to. A well-known, respected, best-selling author is selling _fourteen_ stories for less than $7. Yet, unknown authors expect to charge a dollar for each of their works.

--------------------------------------------

At the rate that I read (approximately a novel per day), I have to consider cost vs. time.

Here is some math:

Last short story I read: Approximately 30 minutes

Last novel I read: Approximately 6 hours

At that rate, I would have to spend $12 on twelve short stories to get the same entertainment that I received from one $.99 novel.

I say "same entertainment", but that's not necessarily true. I have purchased several short stories in the past that were not entertaining at all. So, assuming those 12 stories came from 12 different authors, I could end up with three of them being filled with grammar/punctuation errors, two that are formatted improperly to the point of driving me to the brink of insanity trying to read them, and three more that just ended badly or something. Or....any combination of the above.

Yes, any of those issues could occur with a novel, but I'm talking about 'bulk buying' here. The percentages of that on novels are much smaller.

I understand quality over quantity. Yes, I'd rather read a great short story than an awful book.

I just can't afford it.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Since I was the 16 for 7 dollars poster, allow me to expand on it.  I was actually talking about print books.  I'm traveling soon, and not taking the kindle, so I bought 3 short story collections.  I got them all for under 25 dollars and each had over 10 stories in it.  I don't like purchasing single short stories for my kindle, I think it's too much effort and cost for too little return.  

Just as I try to optimize my non-book purchases (I'll buy a 2 liter coke for 1.99 rather than spending 80 cents each time for a can at the vending machine), with the economy being what it is, I can't rationalize spending 1.49 for a single story when I can get a novel that will be more satisfying for the same price.  I'd rather eat a full meal not just spend money on snacks.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

scarlet said:


> I'm traveling soon, and not taking the kindle, so I bought 3 short story collections.


No offense, but this sentence sent shivers down my spine.


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## Lynn Bullman (Aug 16, 2009)

I appreciate the effort in starting a new thread here about this issue versus continuing to add possible confusion over on the actual "Book" thread which was about the book...not its length and or value.  Thank you.

Now, as to "my" opinions, if you don't mind, on that issue.

Sorry, I just don't think a person should expect to buy a book by the pound...like a sack of potatoes or a clump of greens.  More pages surely does not always make a better book.  Just like less pages should not always make a worse one.  Amazon has a price limitation that we authors cannot go below...ie, .99 cents  and for my ownself I wouldn't hesitate to pay that amount or even a couple of dollars for ANY good story no matter its size.  Certainly my brain could appreciate a good story no matter its short length, just as my waist should probably appreciate eating a light snack over a seven course meal.

To me, worrying about a good story's length is silly...especially considering the LOW price of it.  If I enjoyed it...great...if I did not...I didn't have a HUGE investment in it.  (shrugs)

I have purchased and read REAL stinkers that have had 500 pages that I barely remember who wrote...and on the otherhand I've bought and read completely wonderful tales of less than two to twenty pages that I can remember years after reading them and go into large detail in describing them.  I just can't see putting the SIZE of a book, the LENGTH of it...as comparing to any sort of QUALITY of the book or reason for buying (or not buying.)  That sort of smacks of a certain type of aloofness or eliteism or high browed-ness to me, that I just can't accept.

I understand that especially in this day and time it is a general assumption that MORE is always BETTER...but after 54 years of my life, I've found that usually that is far from the actual case.

Certainly I (and other newer authors here) may not have the over-all reputation of someone like Steven King or other well known and highly published authors...and I say, "So what?"  How does that prevent us from writing "just as good a story" as "THEY" do?  Indeed, why are we not allowed to "go our own way" without emulating the Main Line authors at all?  Actually the Kindle and the way the Kindle books are published enhances this "different" idea rather than restricts us to the ways of the more famous "hard cover" type authors.  With the Kindle we have a chance to (finally) go our "own" way rather than be completely forced into the molds of the giant book publishers...that force their own ideas of what a book should be about, its length, size, etc...on the whole world.

And yes...someone such as Steven King may publish on Kindle too...maybe even only charge .99 cents for say a hundred of his own short stories...but then they are usually NOT ORIGINAL shorts but are shorts that have already been published dozens (or more) times ELSEWHERE.  So usually...you're getting (paying for) a rehash...NOT original and new work.

Besides, as rich as Steven King is...lol...he can "afford" to give away his work and still be just fine, eh?

I (as others here) write short stories...that's what I do, and I like it that way.  Maybe other authors like to do it that way too.  Obviously, as I have sold over two hundred of these stories in about a month...some few readers must like them too...in other words the market for them is there.  (or appears to be.)  True, that is nothing to a famous author or perhaps even "less" famous ones...but to me...two hundred or so people reading my stories is a BIG deal, and I am very proud of that fact, as small as it may be.

I don't think we should be discounting or ignoring or even talking about doing so, single shorts...or for that matter, ANY book.  A book, short or long, should stand on its OWN merits...not the size or length of it or for that matter even its price (if a fair one.)  If people are interested in it they will buy it...short or long or in between...low price or high price, whatever.  If they are not interested in it...they simply won't.  But that should be up to THEM, not US.  In other words we shouldn't be putting our hands in their pockets and spending or "not" spending THEIR money for them.  Everyone should decide that for themselves...a personal choice.

And certainly preventing or discouraging folks from buying shorts stories, single or otherwise, is doing both authors AND readers, a great injustice.

Or so "I" believe.  Some few here might possibly agree with me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think this is a good discussion, I look forward to reading more thoughts on this subject.  

I have paid $0.99 for a short story, though I seldom read short stories, never have liked them as much as long format.  I seldom buy short story collections, even by authors I like.  

As for the price, I liken it to purchase of a single vs an entire album, but that's my rationalization.  

Betsy


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## AnnaM (Jul 15, 2009)

I like Betsy's analogy to buying a "single" vs. the 12 tune (or, in this case, 30 chapter) album.

I look at a full length novel as 30 chapters (anywhere from 200-400 pages) -- and many short stories embedded in and across those chapters -- stories about individual characters, various plots and subplots, etc.  

A short story, by dint of it's format, cannot embrace many plots, characters, and action.  You get more for your money with a full length novel (assuming quality writing).

My suggestion to those who sell short stories is to assess the value of the product when pricing it.  Not only is it shorter, but it isn't as much meat (it's the petite sirloin on the menu).  It might be the greatest sirloin steak the reader has ever ordered, but you are taking a chance if you overprice the product (you are already at a disadvantage in delighting the customer -- size does matter to many).

And I think it's important to be up front in listing a short story as such (in the description, and include page count). You don't want to disappoint a reader who thought that it was a full length book when they made the purchase.  That leads to refund requests (and they have a valid excuse for a refund from Amazon if you didn't mention the length of the story in the listing), and it can leave the reader with very little incentive to purchase your other works.  They got burned once, and won't pick up another.

Honesty is the best policy . . . but if you think you have a winning short story then go for it.


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

Great discussion. I think like anything else . . . it depends.

I have yet to release a standalone short story, however I have released a novella of about 15,000 words. The novella (A Truck Story







) was originally slated to appear in a themed anthology that fell through, so I went ahead with it on my own because I believed it was a clever idea and also believed there would be a niche audience for such a thing.

But as a fairly unknown author, I'd be hard-pressed to release a standalone short story unless it had won a prestigious award or something, or had been published to great acclaim in another medium and already had a "buzz" about it. Why would you ever expect anybody to buy it -- at any price -- otherwise?


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Lynn Bullman said:


> I appreciate the effort in starting a new thread here about this issue versus continuing to add possible confusion over on the actual "Book" thread which was about the book...not its length and or value. Thank you.
> 
> Now, as to "my" opinions, if you don't mind, on that issue.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth. Thanks, Lynn. I highlighted a few of the sentences that particularly resonated with me.

L


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I did address this in my blog post today. However, I sincerely hope that I made it clear that I do not purchase short stories due to the money factor, but that I am not telling anyone else not to purchase them. That's why I read them and posted the reviews, to be helpful to anyone who _does_ want to purchase them. I have purchased, read and reviewed many short stories and novellas. Heck, I even have a list of them on my Amazon Listmania. LOL

Should I receive more review copies or even accidentally purchase one again, I will post more reviews. Should one catch my interest enough that I just have to one-click it, I will do so.

However, with the speed I read, it really just is not cost effective for me. But, that is a _very_ personalized opinion.

Before the Kindle, I got most of my books at used bookstores, trading them back in for credit, etc. I went nuts after I got my Kindle, buying books left and right. Thank goodness for all of the Indie authors out there who priced their books so I could afford so many and still be able to read quality work.  When I found that I was spending too much on books, I realized I had to cut back. So, logically, I cut back on shorter works so get more hours for my dollars.  I also thank all of the authors who have sent me review copies. That has helped a lot, too.

I think my five star review on a short story that I felt tricked into buying shows that I am fair in my judgement. I don't take price into consideration at all when reviewing. A ninety-nine cent work or even a free review copy gets the same critical review as a $9.99 bestseller. Even the story I bought accidentally will be place on my Listmania when I post the review on Amazon. I will not mention the price in that review as it has no bearing on the quality of the story.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

One of the reasons I released Sage the way I did was because I didn't think it fair to release each story for a dollar (and Amazon doesn't let you charge less.)  Granted all 3 of the Sage stories are long for shorts, but I didn't think buyers would be amused to pay for a single story.  All three stories are in the same setting with the same characters--as opposed to a collection of unrelated shorts.  So far it seems to have gone over well.  No one has complained and the feedback I have received has been positive.  I'm very upfront in the description so buyers shouldn't be surprised.  I also only charge a 1.00 for the set, which, hopefully, isn't unreasonable.  

There are so many good free stories online, I really felt I had to combine several into one product to make it attractive.  I also read a number of the Kindle threads where readers felt ripped off when they found out the "book" they downloaded was in fact, a single short story.  That research kept me going in the direction of "more is better."

I have another set of "shorts" that are completely different that I'd like to release probably early next year.  And I plan to do the same thing--3 or 4 stories in one world/character for 1.00!

Maria


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

Like most authors, I do like to write short stories sometimes, and I've also wrangled with the question of how/whether to offer them for sale individually. I'm still not sure I have a good answer to that question.

My natural inclination is to offer my readers as many choices as possible, so that if they want to buy individual short stories they can do that, but if they prefer a collection then that's also available for them. I don't much care how many stories actually sell, it's more of a courtesy thing to me. As a matter of fact, the only short story I've ever had much luck selling on Amazon was "Jacob Have I Loved." But it's 60 pages long, so it falls out there on the lengthier end.

I think it's a good point that we not deceive readers into thinking they're buying a novel when it's just a short. That thought hadn't crossed my mind up till now, but since it's been brought up, I'm seriously considering removing my individual shorts from the Kindle Store. All my short stories are already bundled together in one book anyway, so they'll still be available if readers want them.

Beneath a Star-Blue Sky


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

@ Maria

Your three stories put together in the book of Sage essentially make it a novel length publication, or at least very close. To me, it is well worth the buck.  

@ bluearkansas cowboy

I will pass on advice given to me by a moderator when I asked a question of the forum and started to make a decision a couple of hours later:

Give it time. Only a few people have weighed in on this issue so far. Each one has a different, and justified, viewpoint. I would listen to others before jumping the gun and removing any of your work from being sold.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I rarely read short stories, even if it is a compilation from an author whose books I regularly enjoy. However, I do read them now and again, and have no issue with them being sold separately.

Obviously, it necessary that in the description it is *clearly* posted that it is a short story. It is not going to help the author at all in the reviews for readers to post they were deceived into thinking it was a full-length novel.


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## Lynn Bullman (Aug 16, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> I rarely read short stories, even if it is a compilation from an author whose books I regularly enjoy. However, I do read them now and again, and have no issue with them being sold separately.
> 
> Obviously, it necessary that in the description it is *clearly* posted that it is a short story. It is not going to help the author at all in the reviews for readers to post they were deceived into thinking it was a full-length novel.


Quite correct and is EXACTLY why you won't see ANY of "my" books posted without the "short story" announcement being in their description on Amazon (or Mobipocket) books! Though certainly not required, I, being an honest and upfront person, wanted people to have an idea of what they were buying...to be able to make a clear and concise "choice" in the matter. And I would hope that that honesty would be appreciated by any reader...rather than held against me over the "length" of the story itself...and over the unsavory/unthoughtful practices of others that might not have been so upfront/clear about their stories' length in the past.

But that is not entirely what I think this posting is about. People getting tricked into (or feeling they were) buying a long book over a short one I think is an entirely different issue here from how the original posting was made...or so I feel. And truely, neither I nor any other short story author can do anything about what happened in the past to others... No, all we can do is continue on doing what we're doing, offering (hopefully) quality stories at reasonable prices and making sure that OUR readers or potential readers are made aware of the length of them before they buy. What else "can" we do? Certainly what others did before us is not our fault nor should we be slighted or held to task over what THEY did, rightly or wrongly.

I also agree with the "single" record comparison versus the Album or LP version as has been offered. How many billions of SINGLE records were sold over the years? Untold numbers surely, and plain and truthful testament to the correctness and validity of selling them as such. I think this may very well ALSO extend to the singly short story... and do so very nicely. After all, many people DO like short tales...and may have reason to buy only one at the time. A shortness of money comes to mind...for instance they want a quick read but don't have the $7.99 PLUS to shell out for a novel length book yet they easily have the .99 cents or 1.49 (or whatever) to buy the short book. Another factor for buying the short might be the time spent reading...with time to scarf up a nice short but not the time to read and digest a full length novel.

Still another (and to my thinking...the BEST) reason to buy a short...is to sample or get a FEEL for a particular author, especially new and or unknown ones...the way he/she writes, the types of stories they produce...and so on. Reading a good short from a new author that you have "only" invested .99 cents or so for is a very real and "quick" way to decide if this is an author that you want to follow and buy other books from.

And I just completely disagree that (as posted in "some" of the above comments) that the BULK and Size of the story makes it better in any way. If you've spent 5.99 to 7.99 or MORE for a huge honking and TERRIBLE novel...then you've ONLY got MORE BAD READING THAT YOU PAID "MORE" MONEY FOR! And time spent "trying" to read it (if you even manage to read it at all) is just pretty much "wasted" time. So how in ANY way is this beneficial? Economical? Efficient?

Sure, it always just boils down to different strokes for different folks...and that's good, for that's how we are as a race of peoples...different and every one of us unique. All with different likes and dislikes. That's why we should ALL respect each other AND those likes and or dislikes. And why we shouldn't want EVERYONE to be the same or fall into the SAME stamp as everyone else.

The way I see it...if people like shorts and or singles...by all means let them buy them and enjoy them. If they like novels then by all means let them buy novels and enjoy them. Some, like myself, might like a mixture of the two. If they don't like one or the other...why make a fuss about it? It is (after all) their time and their money invested. Since, no doubt, we will continue to do as WE like to do regardless.

And again...what others may have done in the past is water under the bridge...I think more short story authors are aware of that issue and have or are addressing it. We, as short authors...shouldn't have to continue to "tote the note" for things we did not do nor had any control over. As long as we are honest and forthright...that is the best we can do.

For the writer that was thinking of taking his Kindle shorts off of Amazon...I urge you to reconsider that (for the reasons I listed above.) If you feel that people might be confused over their length...by all means "redo" their descriptions to update the fact that they are shorts and so that should easily and quickly correct any possible confusion and or problem.

Salute all!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

This is a good civil discussion and many good points are being made, so I almost hate to interrupt with the comment that Lynn's mention of "Kindle shorts" brought a whole 'nother image to my mind....

Betsy


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## Lynn Bullman (Aug 16, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> This is a good civil discussion and many good points are being made, so I almost hate to interrupt with the comment that Lynn's mention of "Kindle shorts" brought a whole 'nother image to my mind....
> 
> Betsy


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## Carol Hanrahan (Mar 31, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> This is a good civil discussion and many good points are being made, so I almost hate to interrupt with the comment that Lynn's mention of "Kindle shorts" brought a whole 'nother image to my mind....
> 
> Betsy


Ok, somebody needs to make a pair of Kindle Shorts and post a picture!


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Yep! Kindle-shorts--carry up to 800 pairs of clean underwear with you in a single package! Never be stuck with heavy, bulky underwear again! Make more space in your underwear drawer!

And best...'downloading' is easy and painless!

(I'll drink to THAT...)


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

IMHO -

If an author wants to sell a short story on it own for whatever price the author wants to charge, its fine with me as long as it is clearly stated that it is not a full novel. The author should have the right to do it. But at the prices being discussed here, I'm not going to buy or become a new reader of their work.

I don't buy books by the pound, but I certainly assign value to the length of the work. It is my time, you see, not the "poundage" that counts. My time is worth something as well as the authors work (some seem to forget about the reader's investment into the work, but that is half of the equation). Just like I am not going to buy a movie short and pay the same thing that I am going to pay for a feature film, neither am I going to pay $1.49 for a short story. The "poundage" argument misses the mark by a mile. That clearly is not the issue.

Bottom line - I've only got so much time and so much money, so I prioritize. An unknown author asking more than a few cents for a short story won't get me as a reader. Just not gonna happen. And there are many, many people like me out there.

I would consider paying for a short story from an author that I know and love, but not someone whose work is unknown to me unless it is very reasonably priced. Nope, not gonna happen. You want to get me to read your work, you have to appeal to me in some fashion. Overcharging (IMO) for a short work won't do it.

Recently I purchased a short story by F. Paul Wilson, one of my favorite authors for $0.40. ALL of the authors who participate in the "Amazon Shorts" program charge the same amount - $0.40, and these are known authors. I'm certainly not going to value an unknown author above these guys and gals. it plays well into the song vs album argument, which I think is a fair one argument.

If an album has 10 songs and sells for $10 (an average album), then charging $1 for a single song is fair and that is what the mjsic market does. But when you get 20 short stories in a book for $9.99, that equate to more like $0.50 per story using the song analogy, not $0.99 or $1.49. Not to mention the Indie vs known author issue.

While some may value the work for its artistic merit, I read for 2 reasons:
1. Entertainment
2. To learn

Art has little to do with it. So I'm not going to pay more for a work's (supposed) artistic merit. I would bet a week of someone else's paycheck that most people feel the same.

BTW, I just bought a whole book of short stories called "Wastelands: Stories of the Apocalypse" by renown authors like Stephen King, George R. R. Martin, Octavia Butler, Orson Scott Card, and many others for $6 from Baen.com. 23 stories by well known authors at the top of their game. $0.26 per story. That is fairly priced and a decent value. And I would pay more for someone I am not familiar with - why? I don't have enough time for all that I want to read now. I just can't see spending a $1.49 for a single story when I can purchase quality like this for much less. And that is the real issue at hand.

I wish any Indie author who chooses to go the route of charging more than a few cents for a short story all the luck in the world. I just don't think that is the way to create a following.

Again, JMO.


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## Lynn Bullman (Aug 16, 2009)

MikeD said:


> IMHO -
> 
> If an author wants to sell a short story on it own for whatever price the author wants to charge, its fine with me as long as it is clearly stated that it is not a full novel. The author should have the right to do it. But at the prices being discussed here, I'm not going to buy or become a new reader of their work.
> 
> ...


Perhaps we should just "give" you our stories for free, Mike. Since apparently you feel that the time that you spend reading them is somehow a valuable but ugly chore "thrust" upon you by us "money-grubbing NO-NAME authors" that stupidly believe our work should be overpriced and under read.



I'll be honest...due to your remarks, I could care less if YOU ever read one of my books. It's your loss, buddy...certainly not mine. And I'm not saying that in an ugly or mean way...I really mean it. I'd almost "pay" you "not" to read one of my books. LOL!

Certainly "time" has value in the real world of day to day living...but for the life of me, I can't see how time spent on reading a good book is ANY SORT of WASTE OR VALUABLE CHORE... truly, you may consider YOUR time more valuable than my own (or any other short author's) and since your time is your own you certainly have that right... but again, what has "time spent READING" got to do with "your" valuable time? I've heard of a lot of crazy things before...and I know that the rat race we live in "tries" to put a dollar value on every little thing...but putting a value or dollar amount on TIME SPENT READING (as you apparently do) really takes the cake for me!



Reading is or should be an act of love of the written word...not a chore to be governed by a stop watch and a dollar sign. Sure "everybody's" time has value...but at least when reading a good story or book a person ought to forget about TIME and how much an hour the book might be worth and relax and enjoy the act of reading...relax and be carried away by the book's locations, characters, plot, etc...rather than be haunted and urked by every passing "costly" second spent READING the work. Jesus!

How can you possibly enjoy reading if you're constantly costing out every word you read and marking every sentence and or paragraph with a stop watch and "worried" about whether the INVESTMENT of the book is going to be worthwhile for you or not?

  

As to Amazon...for the life of me, I can't set MY books for anything LESS than .99 cents... so I don't know where your getting the .40 cent short story price at Amazon at. The DPT dashboard simply will not register anything less than .99...I tried it. It won't work. But that's besides the point...I feel (and obviously many others) that .99 for a short and 1.49 for a longer book (up to 1.99) is a fair value. And that is "OUR" invested time in the writing and production of said book or books---NOT YOURS!

You are so very worried about YOUR time, but apparently OUR time means nothing to you. ---can we say, inconsiderate?



I say this simply to you, guy...as I said before in other postings...If you don't want to buy Indie books and pay what those authors charge for them...then don't. That's simple enough, isn't it? If you do want to buy them, then by all means...do so. It's entirely up to you in the matter. But I'll make a deal with you...please don't tell me and or other authors what to charge for OUR books---and WE won't tell YOU how much to charge YOURSELF for your valuable time spent reading them. Fair enough?

I certainly think so. But I have a sneaking feeling that "you" won't...

JMO.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Okay, I'm stepping in here.

Lynn, you are attributing words to MikeD that he did not use. You are the only one to use the term "Money Grubbing." Also, you state that he considers that time spent is an "ugly chore" when he did not say that.

I understand that this is an emotional issue for you. I think it's been generally conceded that as long as authors state the form of their publication (short story, novella, etc) so that readers can make an informed decision, there's not a problem. Part of that informed decision, for some readers, will be not to spend money on a short story. That's their right.

Let's keep this calm, reasoned, and accurate.

Betsy


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Lynn Bullman said:


> Perhaps we should just "give" you our stories for free, Mike. Since apparently you feel that the time that you spend reading them is somehow a valuable but ugly chore "thrust" upon you by us "money-grubbing NO-NAME authors" that stupidly believe our work should be overpriced and under read.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was there really a reason to get nasty with a reader trying to express his opinion? He was not attacking you personally. He was just doing what you and everyone else here has done - given his opinion.

You do realize that not only him, but other readers are reading these posts, don't you?

By being rude and hurling insults, you are alienating the very people that you should be trying to impress.

Personally, after this little tantrum, I find myself now completely disinterested in your work and anything else you might have to say.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

let's move on, I think everything that can be said has been said on this subject.

Betsy


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Folks,
> 
> let's move on, I think everything that can be said has been said on this subject.
> 
> Betsy


Does this mean we get no pictures of "Kindle Shorts"? I was really looking forward to that.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Maybe later....


Betsy


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

Yeah, you also see some "authors" charging a dollar or more per chapter, for a work in progress (I'll leave the graphic novel Tumor out of this - as it's a known author and apparently completed work that is being released serially.

With an indie author, who knows if they'll finish. Not to mention that a novel will require a lot of rewrites to be truly completed (and probably to be worth reading, for most authors).

I don't like shorts all that much (although the one from Baen, above, looks interesting enough for me to go look it up), but another reader here does. I'll buy collections, but not individual stories... unless it's (a) one he really, really wants and (b) thru the Amazon shorts series (so about 50 cents, which works out to double most collection prices/story.  There are just too many excellent authors to choose from; it isn't a matter of your work not being worth a dollar or dollar fifty -- it's that it isn't worth more than the many others to choose from. Like all consumers, there is a limited supply of money to use and value has to be considered (ok, so most of America only figured out that money has limited supply recently, but it's always been true, especially for those who wanted to keep their house paid for, so their precious books don't get set out on the street).  It's not as though we are shopping for Picasso's; but if we were - I'd buy a book of lithographs from the masters at $6, not a litho from the guy at the corner I've never heard of for $1.50.  Sure, he might eventually be the next Picasso; but if I paid higher than Picasso prices when he was unknown, I am doing it wrong.

Most authors would do well to release their short stories thru Smashwords (where you can set a small price) or Amazon Shorts, then release a collection (and one of a novel length) via the Kindle store (and on Smashwords again, where you can reach a wider audience).  Otherwise, use shorts for what they have been traditionally - sell them to magazines to actually make a living between novels or use them as writing exercises and enter them into contests to get the awards you need to sell your actual books.


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## Lynn Bullman (Aug 16, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Folks,
> 
> let's move on, I think everything that can be said has been said on this subject.
> 
> Betsy


Agreed. And sorry if person's think "my" opinions were insults. They weren't intended to be. However after point blank calling my "poundage" remark silly and suggesting that I was "somehow" trying to discredit others...and suggesting (in detail) that we Indie authors work was "not" worth the costs...I will admit being somewhat irked. I'd hardly call it a temper tantrum or hurling insults though...again, just my opinion "strongly" worded, as "his" was. Sorry if stating a few strong words means a person has no further interest in my work. That's not my way, as I always thought a person's work should be seperate from everything else, but I realize some may be like that and conceed that it is their right if they so choose it.

Anyway, possibly I was too direct in my own reply. But then I think he was also. But regardless I will admit that is no excuse and apologize.

Fair enough?

And yes...I am FULLY aware that other readers here read my words, and that they are the very same ones that read my books. And I thank them and appreciate them as I always do and always have. I wish I could personally thank each and every one of the kind and wonderful (over two hundred) readers that have bought my books and read them in the last month. THANKS A MILLION!

But moving on... Again, I think this whole idea is simply much ado about nothing. Pricing has LONG been controlled by publishing houses, often to the point of real "over pricing" for books as their retail prices have skyrocketed and continue to go up, seemingly every day. At Amazon DPT we Kindle authors finally have a chance to charge a "much" fairer amount for our work (though nothing under their .99 cent limit) but apparently to some even this small amount isn't low enough, and that's their right to feel that way if they so choose.

But again...I don't see the problem nor a reason for a big, sensational stir up. People that do think our work is worthwhile will buy it...people that don't think it worthwhile will not. And understanding that simple fact I certainly don't believe that making a LARGE issue of it is even a worthwhile task for this forum or elsewhere. It gets people in an uproar for no good reason that I can see...when after all, they will or won't buy based on what THEY personally feel...not what we, or others, may say about it.

The BUYERS will ultimately decided the issue (as they always have) and so far...they are buying. Which is a great and wonderful thing. That may change tomorrow...but today, thank goodness, that's how it is.

Salute!


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Folks,
> 
> let's move on, I think everything that can be said has been said on this subject.
> 
> Betsy


Although I really, really want to answer what was an unwarranted and completely inappropriate personal attack, I'll honor that request Betsy and just say that Red Adept's post can stand in for a more moderate version of what I would have said. 

And - I have purchased "Rogue Hunter" & "Elfhunter" recently (based primarily on the fact that these 2 authors post here and these books have been well reviewed), so I am not anti-Indie by any means.

With that I'll let my post, and his, stand on their own merits and use the ignore feature.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

Betsy,

On a completely unrelated (ok, not really) issue, since authors are restricted to either one thread or one per book, I'd like to see a similar rule for short stories that limits the author to one thread (with additional ones for "collections", if not abused by adding two at a time to generate a ton of threads, even if Amazon lets them do so in the store).

Then, those who want to read about the short stories can find them more easily (rather than looking for every thread Lynn started, for example), while those who were apparently offended (since they PM'd him to stop publishing/promoting them) can simply ignore the thread and move on).


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Koland,

I'm not going to discuss or speculate about any PMs Lynn may or may not have received. (I believe in the "private" in Private Messages ).

Threads for Short Stories vs Novellas vs Novels vs Poems is an issue we haven't discussed in the smoke filled rooms of the Admin Board.  I'll pass the comment on.










Betsy


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I'm not going to discuss or speculate about any PMs Lynn may or may not have received. (I believe in the "private" in Private Messages ).


I would not know the content -- just that they were mentioned (by Lynn) in his thread, before this one started. Although why someone felt a need to do more than ignore the thread, if their comments were unfit for public consumption, I don't know.



> Threads for Short Stories vs Novellas vs Novels vs Poems is an issue we haven't discussed in the smoke filled rooms of the Admin Board.  I'll pass the comment on.


Please be aware that smoke filled boardrooms now violate the law in this and many states -- please use a "fake smoke" machine to ensure proper ambiance, while protecting the health of those in the workplace.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

koland said:


> Please be aware that smoke filled boardrooms now violate the law in this and many states -- please use a "fake smoke" machine to ensure proper ambiance, while protecting the health of those in the workplace.


 

Betsy


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

There's an 'ignore' feature?

I must have missed it.


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

Nope, no forum ignore feature. I was mistaken. Many forums have that and for some reason I thought this one did as well, but it does not.

So you didn't miss it, I was simply wrong about it existing. Mea Culpa.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Nope, no ignore feature.  We rely on our members' self control.      Seriously, we have great members, and have never felt that an ignore feature was really needed.  Still don't.  There has been no blood let in the course of this thread.  Thanks, everyone for agreeing to disagree and moving on!

Betsy


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

We've had quite a paradigm shift in the way media has been marketed, purchased and sold in the last decade or so.... 

When 45s started to disappear in the 80s, after CDs were introduced, I remember paying $2.49 for a 45. We are now paying 99¢ for an MP3, and that is likely to come down yet.

When CDs first came out, they were ~$17 - $20 each. Now you get an entire MP3 album for less than $10. 

Movies are moving down this same path.... With larger and larger storage media available, DVDs will be obsolete sooner than later, and the prices will drop. Again.

Books are following suit... with the advent of e-books here, people are expecting to pay less than $9.99 for a full length novel (I believe the $9.99 boycott is still on?), and many independent authors are choosing to price their novels from 99¢ to $2.99. Based on what I've read here in the Book Bazaar, it seems to be working for them. More than one person has posted elsewhere that they buy 99¢ books simply because they are cheap; not because they are interested in the description.

I really think selling a short story for 99¢ when there are so many options for full-length novels at the same price is going to be a tough sell. Especially since, it would appear, a lot of people are not interested in short stories. I read almost all of the forum posts daily, and I base my opinion on the many, many posts I have read, as well as outside sources such as the Amazon forums and gadget/media blogs.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> I really think selling a short story for 99¢ when there are so many options for full-length novels at the same price is going to be a tough sell. Especially since, it would appear, a lot of people are not interested in short stories. I read almost all of the forum posts daily, and I base my opinion on the many, many posts I have read, as well as outside sources such as the Amazon forums and gadget/media blogs.


I agree. . .though the fact that Amazon won't let you price them lower than that via their DTP system is a bummer. If it was me, I would take Verena's observation above to heart, and research ways to either bundle my stories or get them onto Amazon. . .maybe via another site (Smashwords? Mobi? Not an author so I don't know for sure) where the price can be set a bit lower.

Still, if people _are_ buying at the price you've set. . . .I guess you've nothing to worry about!


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

On a side, but still relevant note, since my blog post expressing my considerably contraversial opinion regarding the sale of separate short stories, I have received _two_ more review copies.

Hey, I said I wouldn't _buy_ them; I never said I didn't like _reading_ them. 

Anyway, regardless of what I think of the selling of them or the pricing, I will give my usual honest review of the work itself.

So, if you are interested in short stories, there may be one there for you. 

Of course, I will also continue to review collections, too.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

> Most authors would do well to release their short stories thru Smashwords (where you can set a small price) or Amazon Shorts,


Just to be clear, most Indie authors cannot publish via Amazon shorts. The rules are stricter for producing those than for getting on Kindle. (Basically you have to have a NOVEL published with a traditional publisher--other publishing credits do not work.) Those were the rules last time I checked (Just for clarity in case any authors are wondering). They also vet the short stories or used to--they also suggest bundling in some cases with other authors. So it's a different program with an entirely different royalty program/ad program and so on.

I was pleasantly surprised by how much interest and feedback I've gotten on Sage. I expected there to be little interest in the collection and more for my novel just because I didn't think short stories were very coveted items. Turns out that Sage is downloaded more often. I think it may have to do with the pricing--it's 1.00, which means people get to try my writing style for very cheap. The novel is only 1.99, so I don't think it is overpriced...but let's just say I'm learning a lot from this conversation and others!

I also agree with the person who posted that it's a good idea to sell short stories to magazines. I've been able to point readers to a few online publications that still have my stories up--another good way to sample my writing and readers seem to appreciate that ability to "test drive." So for me, the value is in the feedback--and using some of the shorts as a marketing tool.

I do want to provide readers with a good value and a good reading experience. So I try to price things as I would be willing to pay. I read a lot of short fiction--for free. So if I'm going to pay for it, it has to be long enough to be worth the dollars. Because as someone else said--there's so much competition out there. If I'm waffling over price, I'll end up just buying a novel or finding something else to read.

Thanks everyone for chiming in on the topic. It's threads like this one that helped me decide the pricing in the first place!!!

Maria


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Oh and Koland--if you like Baen's Universe, which IS VERY good--check out Blackgate (www.Blackgate.com)  They're doing...PDF downloadable now.  (I think it is PDF.  I don't remember if they have various formats.)  I like both magazines, but have to admit, I'd give Blackgate the edge for most of the issues I've bought/read.  But I love adventure fantasy and that is what BlackGate specializes in.  They, like Baen, do a Fabulous job on the artwork.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

I understand both Red's points and Lynn's points.

If you break it down to mere dollars and cents, then perhaps a short story is "not as good a value" as a lengthier novel. However, 99 cents is the lowest a Kindle author can go, so it's a bit of a catch-22.

With that said, I've purchased many short stories (or novellas) that were well worth the 99 cent or $1.99 (or however much) asking price to me based on their overall quality.

From a PM I sent a few months back:



> In no particular order of preference:
> 
> *Truck Stop:* Prequel to Serial. Longer. Novella length. A lot of fun. Very sick.
> 
> ...


Just some examples. Again, I wrote that a few months ago - so I may be leaving out a few short stories/novellas I've read since then.

On the subject of actual *collections*, here are two I've read recently:



> *Ghost Whispers:* A set of excellent ghost stories. To be honest though, I gave up halfway through. There was nothing wrong with it - most of the stories were pretty decent - but I had my fill and that was it.
> 
> *Dead End Street:* It isn't a huge book, but it doesn't feel short either. It's just the right length IMO. It's really a series of short stories wrapped around by the main plotline. Basically, these kids start a horror story club and use a haunted house as their location. Before the kids were born, an entire family was murdered in that house. Each week, the kids go to the house and tell a different story. The structure is different enough and very well done. One possible criticism is that none of the stories sound like they were really written by 13/14 year olds. I got over that though, because otherwise a big chunk of the book would've been derailed by childlike writing. The author (Rick R. Reed) obviously had to make a choice there, and I think he made the right one. If you check out a sample, it stops before the kids begin telling their short stories, but you can at least get an idea of the overall style and whether it's something you'd enjoy. I loved it.
> 
> [sup]


Just some of my own personal experiences with short stories.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have read Truck Stop, The Variant, and Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Bookstore..... If I recall correctly, there were all free when I got them. Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Bookstore is a free PDF on the author's website.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> I have read Truck Stop, The Variant, and Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Bookstore..... If I recall correctly, there were all free when I got them. Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Bookstore is a free PDF on the author's website.


Penumbra was available as a Kindle file on her website, but I don't see that anymore and paid for my copy before I knew about the site (no regrets, like I said).

As for Truck Stop, are you sure you're not thinking of Serial? That one was by the same author, used one of the same characters, and was free (may still be).

If Variant was ever free (not saying I disbelieve you), I'd be surprised because the author specifically laid out a bunch of hoops on his website that people would have to jump through to get it for free.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

You might be right about Truck Stop.... I thought I had read them both, but perhaps not.

I did think that Variant was free, but honestly, I would have to go back through my orders to be certain.

I definitely got Penumbra as a PDF, I converted it in Calibre.


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## Christopher Meeks (Aug 2, 2009)

Before moving on, there are two points that have not been mentioned. First, as to price, Amazon allows authors to charge anything they want for what they upload for the Kindle, but 99 cents is the lowest price allowed. Some big publishing companies are allowed to charge nothing, but I assume Amazon gets money from them another way. Therefore if an author uploads only a single short story, 99 cents has to be the minimum price. I agree that it should be labeled as short story.

Second, Amazon offers a much less expensive option for readers of short fiction called Amazon Shorts. They only come in digital form and are only 49 cents. Any Amazon short: 49 cents. Also, these stories are vetted. This is to say that the stories accepted in to Amazon Shorts have to come from published writers whose books are available on Amazon AND the stories are read and approved by someone on the Amazon Shorts team, too.

My short story "The Holes in My Door," for instance, can be downloaded at http://www.amazon.com/Holes-My-Door-Christopher-Meeks/dp/B0013CX3JY/ref=dp_shrt_new_0. It takes a month or two for a short story to be approved in Amazon Shorts--a process similar to getting one's short story accepted in any literary journal. You can be rejected.

The only other way for an author to get an Amazon Short approved is to win a short story writing contest at http://amazonshorts.gather.com/. In the past, thousands of short stories have been entered in each contest, and one winner gets published as an Amazon Short. I'm not clear if this contest still continues, but the point is that not just anyone can have an Amazon Short.

My story "The Holes in My Door" also appears in my collection _Months and Seasons_. If you want more bang for your buck, I'll urge you to get the twelve stories in _Months and Seasons_ for $2.95 (twenty-five cents a story) over the single Amazon Shorts version, but then again, there's less invested in Amazon Shorts.

There are plenty of big-name authors in Amazon Shorts, too. Audrey Niffenegger, author of _The Time Traveler's Wife_ has a marvelous story called "Jakob Wywialowski and the Angels" at http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=node%3D13993911&field-keywords=niffenegger. It's just 49 cents. To search the Shorts, go to www.amazon.com/shorts

I haven't heard if and how Amazon Shorts work on the Kindle--I'm curious. After all, they seem to be designed for anyone with a computer.


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

Chrismeeks said:


> ...I haven't heard if and how Amazon Shorts work on the Kindle--I'm curious. After all, they seem to be designed for anyone with a computer.


You can use Amazon Shorts one of 3 ways (from "Your Collection"):

1. Read it directly on your computer by selecting "View".
2. "Download" it to your computer. It downloads in the form of a pdf.
3. "Email" it to yourself. It comes in the form of text in the body of the email, not an attachment.

To Kindlize you can convert the pdf or copy and paste the text from the email (my choice) into Word and convert.

Edit:
I just picked up "Months and Seasons". looks like a fun read.


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## Christopher Meeks (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks, Mike, for picking up _Months and Seasons_. Write me here or privately and tell me what you think. I enjoy, by the way, hearing what stories or stories are a reader's (or reviewer's) favorite. I love hearing which lines are memorable, too. It shows me what "truths" people are picking up on.

Thanks for explaining how to get Amazon Shorts onto the Kindle.

--Christopher Meeks


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

Chrismeeks said:


> Thanks, Mike, for picking up _Months and Seasons_. Write me here or privately and tell me what you think. I enjoy, by the way, hearing what stories or stories are a reader's (or reviewer's) favorite. I love hearing which lines are memorable, too. It shows me what "truths" people are picking up on.
> 
> Thanks for explaining how to get Amazon Shorts onto the Kindle.
> 
> --Christopher Meeks


Will do. Just give me a couple of weeks to complete this series that I am currently reading.


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## kindlevixen (Jan 13, 2009)

Just in case there is anyone who is reading this and wondering about more reader opinions, I will add my name to the list of someone who likely won't purchase short stories separately.  I do read quickly and generally find myself wanting more when I get to the end.  If it is an author I am very familiar with and like I MAY do it, but not always. 

I generally prefer the anthology system to pick up the short stories I want.  I get 5-10 (or more) stories for the price of a regular novel and when they are themed I know I am going to enjoy authors I already like and probably find some new authors I may not have known about - therefore getting me to buy their novels.  Win win situation.


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## misterwilson (Aug 11, 2009)

good lord are we all *queing up* to jump on the bandwagon of *will buy* or *won't buy* short stories here?

and if so, why?

personally i ONLY buy short storys because i have very limited time to read and actually hate being torn out of a good LONG read to go and do something else but can usually finish most short storys in one sitting. i say most, cause some of the longer ones may take more but even then if i have to go back a bit and re-read to get back on track i don't have near as much to do over. but that's just me. and liking short storys is just me. its not like i'm jumping up and down and all red in the face because other people would rather read novels.  if you get my drift. and its not like im all proud of being a short story reader and wearing it on my sleeve like a red badge of courage or something.

no sir. not like that at all.

nope. i figure the reading world 'and' Kindle is plenty big enough for both readers of short storys 'and' readers of novels to make out in and i just can't see the fuss by *either* side about who will buy what or who will read this or read that.

not being selective or pointing fingers but i've yet to see any of the short story supporters jump up and say, 'i'll NOT buy a novel!' yet apparently MANY novel readers seem pretty quick to jump up and say, 'i'll not buy a short story!" now why is that? are we, as readers, keeping an open mind here? or is it slammed shut like a steel door?

i joined this forum to get away from such hoopala's and highjinks, petty arguments and one up manships. i joined this nice place to get away from control freaks and big bosses trying to ram rod the whole she-bang and tell everybody what was best for them. have i made a mistake coming here?

people, a book is a book to me. short, medium, long, high priced or low priced they're all the same to me. a book, to me, is something to read and enjoy not put limits on or argue about or fight over. at times i may feel a book is overpriced but you know, i don't jump up and down and raise holy hell about it. i don't get in the authors' face either and tell him the price is too high either or that i just ain't going to buy it no matter what. that's just using common courtesy if you ask me. i just silently don't buy it. or, i wait till i can find it on sale or something. it ain't like its the end of the world or anything.

one thing i never do, is try and tell somebody that can do something i can't, his or her business. i can't write worth a darn, so i give a big 'thank you' to 'anybody' that can! apparently, unlike many, i love ALL books, and sppreciate ALL authors. the more any author writes, the better i like it and the happier i am.

shouldn't we ALL be that way? or by golly am i in the wrong place here again?


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## kindlevixen (Jan 13, 2009)

I think you are reading too much into it. I can't imagine anyone here telling an author not to do something, I know I wouldn't.  What they do with their stories is entirely up to them.  I do think people were giving their opinions and feelings regarding short stories in an attempt to help any authors here who want to know the best way to sell their books/novels/stories.  I doubt there was any band wagon jumping, but what we do here in this forum is share opinions and preferences... We share them about skins and covers and booklights... why wouldn't we share them about books and stories and formats as well?


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

misterwilson, this is a discussion forum. Discussion will invariably include peoples' personal opinions. Personally, I find this thread very interesting. Like short stories, this thread - and others - will not be for everyone.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Don't worry; us authors appreciate the feedback.  We love to know what people are willing to pay; we are authors but we are also businessmen and women and a thread like this helps us understand our audience.  I don't feel at all like someone is telling me what to write (or what to read.)    I've been submitting to short story markets for a long time and the audience is smaller than the novel market.  That's just a statistic.  As an author, I need to know that when I write short stories, it is to a smaller audience.  

I think places like www.AnthologyBuilder.com are helping make short stories more accessible and enjoyable.  I think Kindle and other ereaders do that too.  It's one of the reasons I decided to put Sage on Kindle.  The next challenge was how to reach as many readers as possible.  And here we are in this thread.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

misterwilson said:


> not being selective or pointing fingers but i've yet to see any of the short story supporters jump up and say, 'i'll NOT buy a novel!'


Well, you just did.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

misterwilson said:


> personally i ONLY buy short storys because i have very limited time to read and actually hate being torn out of a good LONG read to go and do something else but can usually finish most short storys in one sitting.
> 
> not being selective or pointing fingers but i've yet to see any of the short story supporters jump up and say, 'i'll NOT buy a novel!' yet apparently MANY novel readers seem pretty quick to jump up and say, 'i'll not buy a short story!" now why is that? are we, as readers, keeping an open mind here? or is it slammed shut like a steel door?


I didn't start this thread to tell anyone what to buy or not buy or what to sell or not sell. I never said I wouldn't buy short stories. I said I wouldn't buy them when they are _sold separately_. There's a big difference. I purchase books of short stories all the time.

Look at Brendan Myers' latest offering, _Adamson's Rock and Other Stories_. There are EIGHT short stories in here from an author whose two novels I have already read. I purchased it the day it came out. It's only $1.49. If he sold those seperately, no, I wouldn't have spent eight dollars to read them. But...That's just my personal choice.

I would never presume to tell anyone 'not to buy' something. I even review short stories, when I receive free review copies, that are sold separately them for those that may be interested in purchasing.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Due to some of the conversations here, I did go to Amazon and purchase some of the short stories for $.49 and under.  I will be reading and reviewing them some time in the future. 

I don't like reviews that talk about price, like "wasn't worth the $.99". I mean, to me, you either like it or you don't and what you paid should not be a real issue as far as the actual review. So, I won't be including a 'cost effective' item.  

It should be interesting to read them.


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