# Why hasn't anyone figured out how to "hack" folders into the Kindle yet?



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Enthusiast fans tend to be more on the ball than major corporations sometimes. We've seen that already with the K2 font hack.

However, it appears no one has been able to create a "hack" to add folders to any incarnation of the Kindle.

That doesn't make me very optimistic for any kind of official Amazon solution either, because if it could've been done, it probably would've been by now. :\

Then again, magazines/newspapers have folders. I've never understood why that functionality can't be extended to the rest of the Kindle too.

At the very least, a samples folder would be a godsend.


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

I agree completely! I wish someone amazon or otherwise would come up with something. I would LOVE to be so smart as to be the one to do it but sadly I'm not  ...I know alot of people always talk/ask about folders so it would make sense that someone, somewhere would come up with a solution. I guess until then I have to grin and bear it.


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## 1131 (Dec 18, 2008)

Yes, please allow me to organize and reorganize my books the way I want them organized.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Not that it would stop a true hacker, but the Kindle license agreement/terms of use (Section 4: Software) states that:


> *No Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, Disassembly or Circumvention.* You may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, modify, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Device or the Software, whether in whole or in part, create any derivative works from or of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat or tamper with or circumvent any of the functions or protections of the Device or Software or any mechanisms operatively linked to the Software, including, but not limited to, augmenting or substituting any digital rights management functionality of the Device or Software.


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

Wouldn't that also be the same 'rules' for the screen saver hack and the font hack NogDog?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

koolmnbv said:


> Wouldn't that also be the same 'rules' for the screen saver hack and the font hack NogDog?


Probably, but I'm no lawyer, so take anything I say with several grains of salt. (For instance, I'm not sure from that language if installing those hacks is contrary to the agreement, or only the act of decompiling the software in order to create the "hacks", or also the creation of the software mods, etc....only your hairdresser laywer knows for sure.)


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

NogDog said:


> only your hairdresser lawyer knows for sure.)


LOL...that last part got a laugh from me!

It does seem like any of the hacks would go against amazon's kindle guidelines/terms of agreement.

I don't want anyone to get into any trouble or have any serious consequences just so that I can get organization or a few folders. I'm not that greedy.


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## Morpheus Phreak (May 6, 2009)

To pop in here and make a small comment...

I've heard a LOT of commentary (not saying it's happening in this thread) about how simple folder support should be, but to be quite honest adding a file management system isn't just a few lines of code.

It takes quite a bit of work since, especially in this case since they'd have to design a system that works specifically for the kindle.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

The "official" explanation usually given is they want the Kindle to be an "open the box, turn it on, and use it" experience.  Highly intuitive.  No real need for a users guide, it's just there for reference; you can do what the Kindle is designed to do pretty quickly after just a few minutes of playing.  Adding an organization system would, potentially, impact that 'easy to use, right out of the box' experience.

Not saying I agree or disagree, just saying it's what I've heard.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Since amazon has released the code for Kindle, I don't think the reverse engineering, decompliation, or disassembly really apply.  The circumvention part might be troubling, though.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

The operating system kernel (Linux) actually supports full file manipulation. I'd guess the main reason that we don't see an option for folders is simply computing power. It takes a lot of functions to navigate, create, move, rename and delete files and folders. The Kindle uses most of it's resources in the display process.

Anyone interested can see the changes that Amazon made to the open source code here:

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/kindle/kindle-2.6.10.patch

Other open source components used include Alsa, BusyBox, Freetype and zLib.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

I dunno.  Is it really that power intensive to change pointers around?  I would have guessed that the issue is creating a decent user interface to reflect an underlying structure.  Which is why I'm a much stronger supporter of tags than folders.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

marianner said:


> I dunno. Is it really that power intensive to change pointers around? I would have guessed that the issue is creating a decent user interface to reflect an underlying structure. Which is why I'm a much stronger supporter of tags than folders.


Sorry, I wasn't very clear was I? Yes, I meant the user functions. The API for the file structure already exists.


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## Varin (May 12, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> The "official" explanation usually given is they want the Kindle to be an "open the box, turn it on, and use it" experience. Highly intuitive. No real need for a users guide, it's just there for reference; you can do what the Kindle is designed to do pretty quickly after just a few minutes of playing. Adding an organization system would, potentially, impact that 'easy to use, right out of the box' experience.
> 
> Not saying I agree or disagree, just saying it's what I've heard.


But for something that's been requested for so long, surely it could be made optional; have it so the kindle comes as is now, but with the option to create folders and organize them in that way. THat way, if people not so technologically savvy won't have to deal with it, and everyone else with pages and pages of books can be happy. I really don't see why this is such an issue, because... *pouts like a little girl* the Sony reader series has folders! *bursts into tears and runs away.*


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## JerryEF (Jun 22, 2009)

Morpheus Phreak said:


> I've heard a LOT of commentary (not saying it's happening in this thread) about how simple folder support should be, but to be quite honest adding a file management system isn't just a few lines of code.
> 
> It takes quite a bit of work since, especially in this case since they'd have to design a system that works specifically for the kindle.


Although, they do support reading a directory structure now. If you go into your K1/2 via the USB, you can set up a directory structure to store your ebooks and Kindle has no trouble finding them.

The User Interface used for 'Periodicals' and 'Archived Items' would be just right for basic directory structure navigation.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Anything like this is always a balancing act based on expected return on investment (ROI). The investment would include the time spent by development staff gathering the exact functional requirements, designing an implementation that would satisfy those requirements, reviewing the design to determine it would not negatively impact anything else on the Kindle, actually coding it (including the coding of the update patch that will be distributed to current owners), testing it to ensure it addresses the requirements *and* doing thorough regression testing to ensure it does not break anything else on the Kindle, maybe providing alpha and/or beta test versions to get feedback from the user base, and in all these test cycles budgeting in additional debug/code/test/analysis cycles to address the inevitable bugs.

After you plan for all that and determine what the expected budget would be to do it, you then have to look at your best guess as to what the expected return in terms of increased sales would be (including resulting book sales). If that expected return is less than the expected investment, then the project will probably be nixed by management. Should that be the case, your best hope will be if some programmer there (or possibly some independent programmer working with the released code) comes up with an implementation on his/her own time, and then submits it to the Amazon development team as a _fait accompli_, at which point Amazon's investment to implement it would be less as it would only need to do some regression testing and installation testing, at which point you might then get your folders enhancement.

(Yes, I've spent way too many years in the software industry.  )


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

With three versions of Kindles out now, I can't believe that the people over there in the Amazon Kindle department haven't heard that the one thing most, if not all, Kindle owners would like is the ability to make folders. Maybe it's not possible at this time, but I sure would like Amazon to address this. Let us know the reason why they can't do it now. Maybe it's budget, software, battery life, or maybe they ARE working on developing it, as we speak, whatever. . . just make a statement to what's going on. 

If they make a statement that is not possible, okay, we then will except it, and we'll stop our bellyaching.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

back2nature said:


> With three versions of Kindles out now, I can't believe that the people over there in the Amazon Kindle department haven't heard that the one thing most, if not all, Kindle owners would like is the ability to make folders. Maybe it's not possible at this time, but I sure would like Amazon to address this. Let us know the reason why they can't do it now. Maybe it's budget, software, battery life, or maybe they ARE working on developing it, as we speak, whatever. . . just make a statement to what's going on.
> 
> If they make a statement that is not possible, okay, we then will except it, and we'll stop our bellyaching.


I think the question here, though, is how would having folders increase the number of books you buy from Amazon, and/or how would it increase sales of Kindles to new owners? (Would you have bought your Kindle sooner had you known it had a "folders feature"?) What is the business case for Amazon to provide this additional feature to those of us who already have purchased a Kindle and are already buying books? If you can come up with some rationale as to how folders would increase Amazon's bottom line, then they'll do it in a snap. If it's just a "nice to have" feature that won't have any significant impact on their sales, then I think we're at the mercy of waiting for someone to do it on their own time, not on Amazon's.

(Personally, I don't feel any great need for folders. I suppose if I had them I'd use them, but right now it's among the least of my worries. But then I've always marched to the beat of a different drummer, so don't go by me, Amazon.)


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

I would say competition with other ebooks. Since more and more people are buying ebooks, they have to make a decision which to buy on what features they have. Possibly, the one with folders is one thing that lets them plunk down the money. Look what we do when we buys cars or TVs. etc. It may be just one thing that we really, really want. That's where the money comes from.


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## jazzi (May 4, 2009)

My guess is they'll have them incorporated later this year (just prior to the release of the Plastic Logic reader, which includes "folder" management.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

*I will pay the person who does come up with it!!!*

The best way I handle the situation, is by using SD cards (K1). I have all the classics on one card, all material that I have already read on another.

I keep only Unread and Samples on Kindle (plus a couple favorites that I just like to have at my fingertips)

This helps with clutter and with indexing.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Unfortunately, K2 people don't have any SD cards.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

*Laurie:* I know that the K2 doesn't have the SD slot. I find that a huge disadvantage (just my opinion) and one of the main reasons I didn't step up from the K1 to the K2. I am the type that likes to be in control of my items. (I know it's sort of OCD-ish...but...) I like knowing that with K1, I can remove the battery myself for replacement and not have to send it in for service to do so. I like that I build my own memory via SD card; rather than being forced to have a preset internal memory _determined by Amazon_. It makes me feel that they have too much control over the K2. Ideally, if they come out with K3 I'd like them to give back the removable battery and SD slot options...and of course, I'd like folders.

I won't get the ipod for the same reason...I have an MP3 player which takes one single AAA battery that I am in control of. When it dies out...I just pop in a new battery. I never have to worry about it having to be recharged. I wouldn't like it if I was in the middle of using it and it konked and needed to be recharged.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

sjc said:


> *I will pay the person who does come up with it!!!*
> 
> The best way I handle the situation, is by using SD cards (K1). I have all the classics on one card, all material that I have already read on another.
> 
> ...


That is a good idea


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Rasputina:


> That is a good idea


For now anyway. Until Amazon or a hacker _(with super good instructions please) _ gives us something better.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> you can do what the Kindle is designed to do pretty quickly after just a few minutes of playing.


Yes -- and you can spend a lot of time paging through lists of books after just a few months of reading.

I know you can delete them and let Amazon store them, but if the Kindle is _designed_ to hold 1500 books, then why can't it actually _do so_ in any remotely practical manner?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

sjc said:


> The best way I handle the situation, is by using SD cards (K1). I have all the classics on one card, all material that I have already read on another.


Wondering whether anyone's "downgraded" to a K1 yet after first buying a K2....


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Hmmmmm.


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## idolguy (Dec 31, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Wondering whether anyone's "downgraded" to a K1 yet after first buying a K2....


Hmmm...That would be unlikely, but interesting to know. I have a K1, and my brother-in-law has a K2. I didn't see enough to make me want to upgrade. 
I have yet to see a Kindle DX. I'd like to see how the newspaper layout really looks on the bigger screen...


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## libros_lego (Mar 24, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Wondering whether anyone's "downgraded" to a K1 yet after first buying a K2....


I did. I had the K2, then K1. After using the K1, I liked it better so I returned the K2. I'd like to have both kindles, but money issue.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

sjc said:


> *Laurie:* I know that the K2 doesn't have the SD slot. I find that a huge disadvantage (just my opinion) and one of the main reasons I didn't step up from the K1 to the K2. I am the type that likes to be in control of my items. (I know it's sort of OCD-ish...but...) I like knowing that with K1, I can remove the battery myself for replacement and not have to send it in for service to do so. I like that I build my own memory via SD card; rather than being forced to have a preset internal memory _determined by Amazon_. It makes me feel that they have too much control over the K2. Ideally, if they come out with K3 I'd like them to give back the removable battery and SD slot options...and of course, I'd like folders.
> 
> I won't get the ipod for the same reason...I have an MP3 player which takes one single AAA battery that I am in control of. When it dies out...I just pop in a new battery. I never have to worry about it having to be recharged. I wouldn't like it if I was in the middle of using it and it konked and needed to be recharged.


I'm with you on being in control. That's exactly me with all my computer stuff. I was upset when I heard they dropped the SD slot in the K2. What? That's a crazy idea. They said it was so they could make it thinner. And what, no way to change the battery? Another crazy idea of Amazon's. What if we couldn't get new batteries ourselves for our cell phones. Oops, there the iPhone. Well, we shall see. They said that about the iPod. But I opened it and changed out my battery just fine. Saved a whole lot of money doing it myself. I thought of waiting to see if there would be a Kindle 4 (is DX really a K3?) that they put back the SD card and make replaceable batteries, but I didn't want to wait any longer.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Laurie:  Whew!  I thought I was the only one.  I hate when a company (and many do it) make you so dependent upon them.  I want to be able to buy something and be done with it.  Guess if it were that cut and dry; many would be without CS jobs.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

It took me a while to do the initial setup, but I use notes to group my books.  

I got the idea from the Amazon kindle discussion board, thought about it forever then finally spent an afternoon marking all my unread and partially read books.  Now I'm going to go back and group them by category ... its time consuming to set up but simple to maintain and it'll work until there's a better way.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> The "official" explanation usually given is they want the Kindle to be an "open the box, turn it on, and use it" experience. Highly intuitive. No real need for a users guide, it's just there for reference; you can do what the Kindle is designed to do pretty quickly after just a few minutes of playing. Adding an organization system would, potentially, impact that 'easy to use, right out of the box' experience.
> 
> Not saying I agree or disagree, just saying it's what I've heard.


Yea, like wading through 41 pages of books and samples is an "easy, right out of the box experience"!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> Yea, like wading through 41 pages of books and samples is an "easy, right out of the box experience"!


But you don't have 41 pages right out of the box. 

And while there are a lot of us who keep 10's, even 100's, of books on our Kindles, there are also a lot who only keep a few dozen.

Anyone who feels an organization method is needed should send Kindle feedback a politely worded request. . . .eventually they'll get the message. . . . .


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I think that is the most annoying part.....this has been the most requested feature by almost every account and Amazon never even acknowledges it.  At least a note saying "we looked at it and it just won't work" would be better than pretending they don't hear us.

*fingers in ears, singing "na na na na"*


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> It took me a while to do the initial setup, but I use notes to group my books.
> 
> I got the idea from the Amazon kindle discussion board, thought about it forever then finally spent an afternoon marking all my unread and partially read books. Now I'm going to go back and group them by category ... its time consuming to set up but simple to maintain and it'll work until there's a better way.


Geoffrey, I'm with you on the notes (or tags). I too read about it on this board, even before I got my Kindle. So when I got it and started downloading books, the first thing I did was add the notes. I do it each time I get something new. I didn't want to wait till I had 100 books to go back and add them. It's now easy for me to find any category, whether it was free, or bargain price, read or not read, etc. I keep my tags on a piece of paper in my Kindle cover pocket. It's not folders, but at least it's some organization.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> I think that is the most annoying part.....this has been the most requested feature by almost every account and Amazon never even acknowledges it.


This argument is frequently invoked, even though we have anecdotal evidence that it is not true. (There are people on this board who don't care about folders, for example.) And amazon has acknowledged these requests, too.


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## angelad (Jun 19, 2009)

Jenni said:


> I did. I had the K2, then K1. After using the K1, I liked it better so I returned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


K2 seems to have more problems in general. Probably a wise choice.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

back2nature said:


> ... I didn't want to wait till I had 100 books to go back and add them. It's now easy for me to find any category, whether it was free, or bargain price, read or not read, etc. I...


That's where I went wrong. I waited until I had 12 pages of books before I started tagging them. I only have three values I'm using at the moment, but That's about to change once I sit down and start adding my categories ...


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

ugh, I've been too lazy to bother tagging my books.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I would use tags, but I still can't my K1 to search at all.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> I only have three values I'm using at the moment, but That's about to change once I sit down and start adding my categories ...


I've made up 30 "values" so far, and have used several. Especially, when I wanted to show my husband how many free and bargain books under $2 I have, I just searched the tags "qfree" and "qbarg" and My Clippings showed them, with the price I added too. That impressed him. He likes me getting books for free.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

back2nature said:


> I've made up 30 "values" so far, and have used several. Especially, when I wanted to show my husband how many free and bargain books under $2 I have, I just searched the tags "qfree" and "qbarg" and My Clippings showed them, with the price I added too. That impressed him. He likes me getting books for free.


I salute your dedication LOL


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Well, you can ask anyone in my family and that's how I am. Once I even labeled my husband's shelves in his closet with the label maker, to encourage him to put his jeans and shorts in the right spot. Didn't help. Labels are long gone.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

back2nature said:


> Well, you can ask anyone in my family and that's how I am. Once I even labeled my husband's shelves in his closet with the label maker, to encourage him to put his jeans and shorts in the right spot. Didn't help. Labels are long gone.


I love that! I swear I should break out the label maker here because my hubby can't find stuff right in front of him. Maybe if there is a sign it will be easier for him LOL


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> Yea, like wading through 41 pages of books and samples is an "easy, right out of the box experience"!


Very well put. I thought exactly that same thing. In addition, practically every user out there should understand the 'Folders' idea and it shouldn't complicate a simple out of the box experience in any way, IMHO.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

back2nature said:


> Well, you can ask anyone in my family and that's how I am. Once I even labeled my husband's shelves in his closet with the label maker, to encourage him to put his jeans and shorts in the right spot. Didn't help. Labels are long gone.


I'm more of a list person than a label person ... so this is a little new for me. I have spreadsheets and access databases on everything from my movie collection (cross referenced of course by director, actor and genre) to my mortgage ... I completely grok Rasputina though - I'm lazy too.

... in order to label my books with categories and such I will need to overcome my laziness and just do it. I'm on vacation next week so maybe I'll turn on HGTV and just spend the afternoon labelling and adding home improvement ideas to my house list ....


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Oh NO...I found my twin.  I label EVERYTHING...my family bust my chops about it all the time.  I have every pair of shoes in a clear box and labeled.  I had every one of my kids draws & labeled until they grew up and pulled a hissy fit on me.  The other day I got something new and my husband (in front of the clerk) said, "Are you going to label it?"  I told him, "Label this."...lol.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

sjc. . .you're scary.  But can you come organize my house?


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

sjc - oh my gosh! I think you are worse than me.  
Laurie


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I admit that I'm bad.  One day I'll take a pic of the shoe thing it is sort of funny. I call them all sorts of things so that I know which is which.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

OK ALL: Have a field day...go ahead, I can take it. My family has a grand old time...why not you as well...lol. 
We'll Title it: Label Happy


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Holy crap! (can I say that?)

I gotta meet you someday. I have some shoeboxes with titles with black felt marker, but YOU WIN!!!!

Laurie


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

*Laurie:* lol. I won't show you the *inside* of my built ins. You would give the men with the "special little white coats" my address; to have me taken away. (I hate bureaus, another thing to dust)


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Looks pretty nice. Makes me want to clean out my closet.

Do you think we're off the topic here?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

back2nature said:


> Do you think we're off the topic here?


Well_ I_ don't think so!  Folders are about _organizing your stuff_, so...

sjc, I'm in awe. You could turn that kind of organizing skill into a business.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Yep.  I'll be glad to get it back on track.

HELP WANTED SIGN

HACKERS: Experience a must
Must have the capably to give Kindle users folders.
Salary commensurate with experience

APPLY HERE


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

What I wouldn't give to see inside those white built ins.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

**jaw drops**

What I wouldn't give to HAVE those white built ins!

**looks at 70's era teeny tiny closet & sighs**


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

*Susan:* ROTFLMAO!!

*Dori:* My friend Lori (we have been friends since 1st grade) opened one of the draws. Busted out laughing and now every time we talk or email she brings up the built ins.

*VictoriaP:* Funny how things aren't always what they seem. That project hung unfinished for 18 years...I finally blew my cork after looking at a plywood floor and having clothes in boxes organized by season. Two years ago, I was wishing for a tiny 70's closet...lol.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

We have projects like that. Promises, promises.


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

If you could post a photo of those drawers/closets we could move this to the A Picture is worth 10,000 words thread.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Dori: The avatar is suiting you quite well right now...lol.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

I've always been afraid of clowns.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Laurie:  There are many people afraid of clowns.  It is a genuine phobia called:  Coulrophobia 
My daughter has a very unusual and genuine fear of ladybugs.  (she has been made fun of for it.) A college professor made a mockery of her in class and when she nearly passed out and was shaking from head to toe; he realized the seriousness of her phobia and apologized profusely.  

Boy this thread did take on a life of its own; but you will find that on the boards.  Even redirecting the thread is fruitless.  Though, sometimes that's the fun of it.  We've had threads go on into the hundreds and get so diverted it's almost laughable.


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

Pondering why no one has figured out how to hack folders.  I did a birthday party once and one 5 yr old was afraid of clowns so I just began to be afraid of her moving farther and farther away,  etc.  Jumped when she talked and she got the giggles and before the party was over she was sitting between my legs handing me the balloons.  She probably did not have a true phobia.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Dori:  You just have a way about you.  True, she was probably more timid than actually fearful.  I'm sure she took to you like "Oreos to Milk". To me a "real" phobia has you practically hyperventilating and shaking with fear.  I know someone with a fear of dolls...is petrified of them.  Maybe she saw the Twilight Zone episode with Telly Savalas and talking Tina and it did her in...lol.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

sjc said:


> Laurie: There are many people afraid of clowns. It is a genuine phobia called: Coulrophobia


sjc: Didn't know that.

I met it in jest. But really, my daughter too has this fear of clowns. Maybe, it was too many bad movies that portrayed them as evil. But when we see clowns, we walk the other way. Except maybe, Ronald McDonald. He's a happy clown. But we both have this thing about them.

Dori, I don't mean anything against you. Your picture is cute. I am assuming you are happy clown like Ronald McDonald.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Laurie:  Dori is a lovable clown who makes Ronald McDonald seem like "small fry"  (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

I do think you are right Laurie...clowns are often portrayed badly in films.  Gosh, I even remember an episode of Scooby Doo, the cartoon, making a clown seem scary.  I don't think Dori takes any offense.  We are foolish and friendly on these boards.  No need to feel intimidated or shy. RELAX all is good.  We've talked everything on these boards from A to Z.  Hey, got an idea... I'm going to put up a fear/phobia post in the off topic section.  Thanks for the idea...lol.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

sjc said:


> Hey, got an idea... I'm going to put up a fear/phobia post in the off topic section. Thanks for the idea...lol.


Wow, that ought to bring up all kinds of discussions.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

> Wow, that ought to bring up all kinds of discussions.


Yep...it should...go post yours it's up and running...lol.


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

Still haven't figured out the folder hack thingy.   Actually I would not hack my Kindleabra in any way.  She shall remain hackless.

I am not at all offended by anyone here.  Back in the day when I was clowning I was a happy but mute clown mostly doing balloon animals for the kids, etc.  I was also in a christian clowning group and wrote the (mime) skits for that and walked in a few of the short walk-a-thons for charities.  I made the balloon animals for years before I became a clown.  My church wanted me to get a clown outfit for our special events so a friend made me one.


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Dori -
So you actually did the clown thing? I thought maybe it was a one time dress up for Halloween. I think the picture kinda of looks like a Lucille Ball clown, that is, if Lucy dressed up like one. 

Laurie


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## docjered (Apr 12, 2009)

NogDog said:


> I think the question here, though, is how would having folders increase the number of books you buy from Amazon, and/or how would it increase sales of Kindles to new owners? (Would you have bought your Kindle sooner had you known it had a "folders feature"?) What is the business case for Amazon to provide this additional feature to those of us who already have purchased a Kindle and are already buying books? If you can come up with some rationale as to how folders would increase Amazon's bottom line, then they'll do it in a snap. If it's just a "nice to have" feature that won't have any significant impact on their sales, then I think we're at the mercy of waiting for someone to do it on their own time, not on Amazon's.


Okay, I have the answer to that. Amazon needs to develop a "folder" app and sell it as a download just like a book. I would gladly pay $9.99 for folders. There is the economic incentive. Amazon, are you LISTENING? I think it would be a best seller!

Of course, then there would be a thread complaining that Amazon had the nerve to charge for something that should have been included for free (sigh).


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

In answering NogDog's question, and addressing Amazon in general, if there were folders I would feel that my home page was better organized and would be more inclined to purchase more Kindle books. Right now I'm hesitant to purchase more books (especially subscriptions) because of the disorder on my home page. I can honestly say folders or some better organizational method would encourage me to fill up my Kindle rather than constantly shuffle the mess of daily subscriptions, samples, dictionaries, notes and highlights, and books I'm currently reading from one page to the next.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

This is so unfair LOL I keep opening this thread hoping one of these new replies has found a hack LOL


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

Sorry to disappoint, but I know how you feel. I'm sure if that were the case there would be multiple new threads as well.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

We all know it is the single most requested thing asked of Amazon.  They have to address it sooner or later.  I guess we are getting the later.


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

Too late to be sooner, and it's just about right on-time to be later, if you ask me.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Yep.  The sad part is that it is probably not a very difficult fix (according to what different tech experts on these boards) if only Amazon would get a move on already!!


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## jazzi (May 4, 2009)

They'll release it when they start losing market share to Plastic Logic.


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

Or if enough people tell Amazon they're losing sales because of how poorly organized the current system is (hint hint).


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I've called, emailed, begged and groveled.  I guess we don't have any clout with the powers that be over at Amazon.


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## jimp1947 (May 7, 2009)

I'm certainly glad I'm not alone in this. I have sent several "respectfully" worded emails to Amazon requesting the addition of folders and asking why no password protection capability on the device (too bad, so sad if you leave it lying around). I have yet to receive even an acknowledgment of my emails, much less a satisfactory response. 

This is the digital age, after all. Surely they have programmers capable of making the required changes without having to completely retool the operating system. And it could be made optional, for those nuts like me who would rather not have to slog through pages of titles to find the one they are searching for. Suppose Microsoft had said (even back in the old MSDOS days), "Folders are too difficult to implement. You will just have to search all 10,000 files on your computer for the one you want, or for the program you want to run."


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

Or protection is too difficult... oh wait!


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## danfan (Apr 17, 2009)

NogDog said:


> I think the question here, though, is how would having folders increase the number of books you buy from Amazon, and/or how would it increase sales of Kindles to new owners? (Would you have bought your Kindle sooner had you known it had a "folders feature"?) What is the business case for Amazon to provide this additional feature to those of us who already have purchased a Kindle and are already buying books? If you can come up with some rationale as to how folders would increase Amazon's bottom line, then they'll do it in a snap. If it's just a "nice to have" feature that won't have any significant impact on their sales, then I think we're at the mercy of waiting for someone to do it on their own time, not on Amazon's.
> 
> (Personally, I don't feel any great need for folders. I suppose if I had them I'd use them, but right now it's among the least of my worries. But then I've always marched to the beat of a different drummer, so don't go by me, Amazon.)


When I researched Kindle initially, it didn't occur to me that there would not be folders, and it's not something exactly advertised on the product page - so it wasn't something I used to make a decision. I simply didn't know to ask.
However, as more and more people do look into them - and there are more in the Real World for people to see - I think it _will_ become an issue to the bottom line, which would be a great shame.

Example, the other day at the optometrist, the doctor asked to look at my Kindle, thinking of buying one for his wife. After ohhing and ahhing, question 1: "Does it have a backlight?" I was able to handle that, and as an eye doctor he quite appreciated the reasoning of e-ink. 
Q2: "You've a lot of books on there," as he scrolled from page to page. "How do you sort them?" 
Ummmm. I don't. So he said, "Do the other readers have folders?" Well I had no idea but I'm sure now, having seen one first hand and immediately picking up on the lack of organization, it's something he'll now research on other systems. And people are _used _to folders & don't want to find new ways to manage their electronics.

I'm naturally a disorganized person, and the clutter fries my brain. Reading's my sanctuary; I don't want that cluttered up too.

(and I am dying to see photos of the inside of sjc's built-ins).


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

danfan said:


> Q2: "You've a lot of books on there," as he scrolled from page to page. "How do you sort them?"
> Ummmm. I don't. So he said, "Do the other readers have folders?" Well I had no idea but I'm sure now, having seen one first hand and immediately picking up on the lack of organization, it's something he'll now research on other systems. And people are _used _to folders & don't want to find new ways to manage their electronics.


danfan- 
I think this kind of question about sorting should be answered in a more honest fashion because we DO in fact have three ways to sort books and they are quite adequate for a lot of people who own Kindles. You can sort by most recent, or by author or by title. 
Now as to folders, I agree we do need folders but I have over 600 books on my KK and I don't have a problem finding anything. Remember you can also jump to letters or numbers by the keyboard so you don't have to page through. I also have a word doc that has an index of all my books on my KK so I know what I have. By not providing that person a true demo of how the Kindle works, you may have just turned him off needlessly and he will in turn tell others. If we want the Kindle population to grow and prosper, and believe me we do, then we need to be conscious of how we answer questions when we are asked about our Kindles.


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## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

What about trying to organize a day where all those who really want folders (or some analog) refuse to purchase anything on Amazon to really let them know how we feel? It would have to be organized and done in the general interest of furthering both the reader's and Amazon's interests, but it would get a message across. This would have to be in addition to making sure everyone involved had already emailed CS with their request for folders. Maybe we could do an online petition?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

sherylb said:


> we DO in fact have three ways to sort books and they are quite adequate for a lot of people who own Kindles. You can sort by most recent, or by author or by title.


Mine are currently sorted by title, and it would help if I could CHANGE the titles! That way I wouldn't be looking for something under "W" that I KNOW I have, thinking it was somehow deleted by Amazon, only to find it listed under "C" for "Complete Stories of".... And most titles starting with "The" are listed under the first "real" word, but two used "the" to alphabetize. 

Renaming titles would also mean that books in a series could show up together. This add-on feature might be quite a bit easier to write than one for folders... how about it, hackers??


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## danfan (Apr 17, 2009)

sherylb said:


> danfan-
> I think this kind of question about sorting should be answered in a more honest fashion because we DO in fact have three ways to sort books and they are quite adequate for a lot of people who own Kindles. You can sort by most recent, or by author or by title.
> Now as to folders, I agree we do need folders but I have over 600 books on my KK and I don't have a problem finding anything. Remember you can also jump to letters or numbers by the keyboard so you don't have to page through. I also have a word doc that has an index of all my books on my KK so I know what I have. By not providing that person a true demo of how the Kindle works, you may have just turned him off needlessly and he will in turn tell others. If we want the Kindle population to grow and prosper, and believe me we do, then we need to be conscious of how we answer questions when we are asked about our Kindles.


More honest? I was completely honest. I don't find the sort features useful - except "Most recently read" which is my default.

The title and author sort features on my device would probably have made him run a mile. Some of my author are Last Name, First Name. Others are First Name, Last Name - and that's amongst the same author. So one of their books might appear on page one, another by the same author on page 6. Example, I have some:
H.G. Wells
H. G. (Herbert George), 1866-1946 Wells
Herbert George Wells

Likewise, Title sort - some of mine are listed... "The xyx", others "xyz, The".

So no, that's not something I'd show someone who is concerned with organization. And besides, for me - who can't remember all the names of the books on my kindle - a name-sort is meaningless. A genre-sort would be far more helpful.

And, ultimately I am not going to lie - or stretch the truth - to someone about it. I'd love more Kindles on the streets, but if I feel a certain feature is inadequate and someone asks me, then I'll tell them. I'm not on commission & at $360, I'm not about to tell someone something that I don't believe.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I think its a conspiracy by anti-organizing zealots.....or maybe little green men who don't understand how our brains collate information.......


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> I think its a conspiracy by anti-organizing zealots.....or maybe little green men who don't understand how our brains collate information.......


do DO, do DO, DEE do......  
(I just saw the X-Files movie...bummer!)


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## legalbs2 (May 27, 2009)

Has anyone tried to drag a folder created on your PC or Mac to the KindleDX?  May work.  I think I will try it.  If it works, then there is no reason to think you could not drag books from the Kindle folder into your "Fiction" folder, "Humor" folder, etc.  

When I finish a book, I just off load it onto my computer or USB flashdrive.  You can certainly add folders to both.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

legalbs2 said:


> Has anyone tried to drag a folder created on your PC or Mac to the KindleDX? May work. I think I will try it. If it works, then there is no reason to think you could not drag books from the Kindle folder into your "Fiction" folder, "Humor" folder, etc.
> 
> When I finish a book, I just off load it onto my computer or USB flashdrive. You can certainly add folders to both.


It's been tried on the K1 & K2, not sure if anyone's done it with the DX, but I imagine they have. You can organize the books on your computer, but the Kindle simply ignores your folders & still shows the books in one big list.


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## legalbs2 (May 27, 2009)

VictoriaP said:


> It's been tried on the K1 & K2, not sure if anyone's done it with the DX, but I imagine they have. You can organize the books on your computer, but the Kindle simply ignores your folders & still shows the books in one big list.


Yes, that is what I figured out. I will try it though. I am stubborn that way.


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## legalbs2 (May 27, 2009)

I did create a Samples folder on the KindleDX; however, it is not readable on the KDX.  You can offload from the KDX from the Documents folder into the Samples folder and the samples no longer appear on the KDX.  But, if you open the Samples folder, they are there.

Then, simply move the sample you want to read back into the Documents folder from the Samples folder.  Disconnect the KDX from your computer and the sample appears again on the KDX and is readable.  At least, this gives you a place to store your samples on the KDX itself.  Then you can connect to your computer and transfer from one folder to the other. 

So far, that is all I have figured out.  Hope this helps.  There is no reason why you cannot add Fiction, Non-Fiction, Humor, etc folders to just store the books on the KDX.  Just have to connect the KDX to your computer to move what you want to read back into your Documents folder to be readable.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

sjc said:


> We all know it is the single most requested thing asked of Amazon.


No, we don't.


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

marianner said:


> No, we don't.


What is?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the point is that, based on discussions here and on other boards, there have been many, many requests to Amazon for folders, tags, or some other method of sorting/organization for the Kindle.

What we don't _know_ is that it is the 'single most requested thing'. I would surmise that it is one of the most requested, just not sure it is THE most requested. Only Jeff Bezos can really say what _that_ is.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

For those who have problems with the author last name, first name and first name, last name, or the title, have you tried changing these with Calibre?  I haven't tried it yet, but I understood you can do this.

Betsy


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## back2nature (Jun 15, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> For those who have problems with the author last name, first name and first name, last name, or the title, have you tried changing these with Calibre? I haven't tried it yet, but I understood you can do this.
> 
> Betsy


Yes, Betsy, I tried it. It worked for non-Amazon books, but not the ones I downloaded from Amazon. Bummer.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hmmm, disappointing!

Betsy


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

legalbs2 said:


> I did create a Samples folder on the KindleDX; however, it is not readable on the KDX. You can offload from the KDX from the Documents folder into the Samples folder and the samples no longer appear on the KDX. But, if you open the Samples folder, they are there.
> 
> Then, simply move the sample you want to read back into the Documents folder from the Samples folder. Disconnect the KDX from your computer and the sample appears again on the KDX and is readable. At least, this gives you a place to store your samples on the KDX itself. Then you can connect to your computer and transfer from one folder to the other.


Might be useful to some, but frankly, if you have to plug the Kindle into the computer to move things in and out of folders in order to read them on the Kindle, sounds like way more trouble than it's worth.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

You know what; at this point, I've learned to live without them for so long...I've adapted and gotten used to no folders.  I use the sd card to free up the home page.  And whatever is in there, I just search.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

If I can get folders that are usable and navigable on the K, I'm fine with needing to use the computer to manipulate them. I already have a mini usb permanantly plugged in anyway. It takes 2 seconds to plug it into K and turn it on. And it would be infinitely faster to just drag and drop on the computer than to have to use the current manage content feature on K and scroll through every page clicking items.


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## danfan (Apr 17, 2009)

sjc said:


> You know what; at this point, I've learned to live without them for so long...I've adapted and gotten used to no folders. I use the sd card to free up the home page. And whatever is in there, I just search.


Ah but I think the SD card would make quite a difference. K2 doesn't have them, so there's not even the option to have an SD card with excess books to tuck in my kindle case. Heck, I'd even have a few SD cards for different genres 

[quote author=Rasputina]
If I can get folders that are usable and navigable on the K, I'm fine with needing to use the computer to manipulate them. I already have a mini usb permanantly plugged in anyway. It takes 2 seconds to plug it into K and turn it on. And it would be infinitely faster to just drag and drop on the computer than to have to use the current manage content feature on K and scroll through every page clicking items.[/quote]

Me too. I wouldn't mind that at all for putting stuff into folders when I first buy a book. As someone suggested though, I wouldn't want to do it frequently for the "hidden folder" concept that we already have. That is, every time I wanted to pull a book from a folder, have to go to the pc to transfer it back.

I guess now I am wishing they'd kept in the SD cards if they couldn't implement folders. One or the other would be nice.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

> You know what; at this point, I've learned to live without them for so long...I've adapted and gotten used to no folders. I use the sd card to free up the home page. And whatever is in there, I just search.


Don't get me wrong...I STILL WANT FOLDERS; I've just learned to adapt in the meantime.


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