# Oct reports up, KU share 1.33!



## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

By my estimation ...


----------



## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

Wow that dropped a lot....not anywhere near what I was expecting. Ugh. 

And that's what my math showed too. 

It was still enough to give me my greatest sales month ever though.


----------



## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

And only 84p for UK


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

KU was kinda fun for a few weeks, but it's time to move on.


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Funny thing is, I would have stayed longer in Select with the new book if they'd kept the approx $2 KOLL payout.
Kinda backfirish.


----------



## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

The problem is when it came out my income on Amazon took a serious nosedive and didn't recover. 

Then when I enrolled in KU it rebounded and I made more from Amazon than I did from the months I widely distributed. 

I fear that if I drop out of KU my visibility dies again and I earn less being widely distrubted then I do distributing to KU. 

As an example this month on Amazon I made $6200. 

In June I made $6000 from Amazon alone and $1000 from D2D. 

KU came out and suddenly I could barely crack $3000 on Amazon and was around $1500 on D2D. I'm not counting Googleplay because I was always like $25 a month at that place. 

So for me the decision still isn't hard. $6200 vs. $4500 and continually dropping (because it was going down before i joined). 

But I did turn off Autorenew on all my books except one series (my oldest one). So we'll see where everything is at in January when my term is up.


----------



## Donald Rump (Dec 10, 2013)

$1.33 is unacceptable.


----------



## Queen Mab (Sep 9, 2011)

Depressing, anyway.


----------



## KaraKing (May 25, 2012)

J Ryan said:


> The problem is when it came out my income on Amazon took a serious nosedive and didn't recover.
> 
> Then when I enrolled in KU it rebounded and I made more from Amazon than I did from the months I widely distributed.
> 
> ...


My income has dropped _dramatically_ since the release of KU as well. Each and every month since it's release, my income has gone down more and more. Just when I think it can't get any worse, it goes down again! I went from making around 10k a month before summer, to around 7k since KU launched, and this month I will be lucky to make 5k. I was really hoping for a rebound with the winter season.

With the share price dropping every month, I am getting very discouraged with Select. I hope and pray they see a loss with this KU crap and kick it to the curb. I don't understand why they would keep a program like this around. I mean they are losing money too... just like we are. Sure, they have subscriptions, but the $ they make from the $9.99 a month is going straight to pay out shares. I understand from a business point of view, they're just trying to bring traffic to the site with hopes that readers will buy other things. Maybe they are going to wait and see if KU helps increase profits over the holiday season and make a decision from there. I just can't imagine KU working out in the long run when it comes to profits for amazon's share holders _and_ authors. Everyone's losing imo.

I also don't understand why the rate keeps going down while more and more authors are dropping out? Is it because the free trial period expired so less subscribers? I failed math. This hurts my brain.


----------



## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Not a good sign. 

(For the record, I'm half-in, half-out. My latest is not in Select, and at these rates probably won't ever be.)


----------



## bobfrost (Sep 29, 2013)

That is a disgustingly low rate, and knocked a rather sizable 4 figure chip off my October shoulder .

Bleah.


----------



## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

At 1.33 $ per borrow my income from borrows is still a bit higher post-KU than pre-KU, but not by much. I wonder where they are going with this.


----------



## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

I'm going to keep my current stuff in KU. But in late December I'm releasing a 50k urban fantasy novel under a psuedo pen name. I think I'm going to distribute that widely and see what happens.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I must be having an opposite borrowing experience from everyone else. My borrows keep going up each month. I ended up just above $20,000 for the month, which I'm happy with. I'm finding new readers, and I'm adding about 10 mailing list subscribers a day. Thanks to the increase in my rank, I'm picking up new buyers, too. I was never out of Select - so I'm sticking for now -- at least through the holidays. I won't make an ultimate decision until the new year. Everyone has to make a choice for themselves.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

books_mb said:


> At 1.33 $ per borrow my income from borrows is still a bit higher post-KU than pre-KU, but not by much. I wonder where they are going with this.


Downwards, I think is the answer to that.


----------



## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Well, I think I'm done with Select. It was fun, ya'll!


----------



## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

Yikes. :-(


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Yikes.  Thought it would stay about 1.50.  Will have to watch this carefully and keep an eye on when / if I need to change my strategies!


----------



## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

YodaRead said:


> I must be having an opposite borrowing experience from everyone else. My borrows keep going up each month. I ended up just above $20,000 for the month, which I'm happy with. I'm finding new readers, and I'm adding about 10 mailing list subscribers a day. Thanks to the increase in my rank, I'm picking up new buyers, too. I was never out of Select - so I'm sticking for now -- at least through the holidays. I won't make an ultimate decision until the new year. Everyone has to make a choice for themselves.


Wow, that's impressive, congratulations! But be sure to leave some of them borrows for the rest of us. ^^


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Donald Rump said:


> $1.33 is unacceptable.


Yup. And next month it will be lower. Amazon can't justify to their stockholders dumping extra millions in KU every month when the company is bleeding money.

If your books are selling for $3.99 or more, you're getting hurt,and it's going to get worse. But if Amazon continues to adjust the algorithms in favor of books in KU, you might also be hurt. It's a shame we don't have a union. If enough authors take their books out, leaving KU with a surplus of shorts and not much else, the picture would change. But that isn't going to happen.

I had only 2 books in KU, and now they're out.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Marian said:


> Yup. And next month it will be lower. Amazon can't justify to their stockholders dumping extra millions in KU every month when the company is bleeding money.
> 
> If your books are selling for $3.99 or more, you're getting hurt,and it's going to get worse. But if Amazon continues to adjust the algorithms in favor of books in KU, you might also be hurt. It's a shame we don't have a union. If enough authors take their books out, leaving KU with a surplus of shorts and not much else, the picture would change. But that isn't going to happen.
> 
> I had only 2 books in KU, and now they're out.


Most of my books are $3.99 and I don't consider myself getting hurt. I am picking up a bunch of new fans who only tried my stuff because of KU (and yes I know this because they told me). Pretending all of my borrows would be sales isn't something I do. I know it's not true for me personally. I like expanding my fan base, which is how I look at KU.


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Ugh. I honestly didn't believe they'd let it drop below $1.50. 

Rue


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> Most of my books are $3.99 and I don't consider myself getting hurt. I am picking up a bunch of new fans who only tried my stuff because of KU (and yes I know this because they told me). Pretending all of my borrows would be sales isn't something I do. I know it's not true for me personally. I like expanding my fan base, which is how I look at KU.


I think you're very much in the minority. I'm not seeing any increase in sales to my titles outside of Select due to KU borrows, and the borrows I'm getting don't come anywhere close to making up for the hit my sales took when KU started. Are you all-in with Select?


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2014)

I kinda expected this and to be honest, of the four books I currently have out there, two are out of the 90 days and now on Smashwords, the other two will be finished in December and then I am done with KU. It just isnt worth it.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2014)

Hey, it's a nickel better than I predicted!  But yeah, I don't see myself dipping my toes into KU for anything $2.99 or above.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

KelliWolfe said:


> I think you're very much in the minority. I'm not seeing any increase in sales to my titles outside of Select due to KU borrows, and the borrows I'm getting don't come anywhere close to making up for the hit my sales took when KU started. Are you all-in with Select?


I've never been out of Select.


----------



## bobfrost (Sep 29, 2013)

I'd really like to see KU drop its exclusivity clause. If it's going to force shitty borrow rates on us, at least they could let us utilize our other vendors.


----------



## Drake (Apr 30, 2014)

It really stinks to see my borrows soaring just as Amazon drops how much they pay for those borrows.  I do wish they'd quit all the screwing around with gimmicks and just sell books.


----------



## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> I'm going to keep my current stuff in KU. But in late December I'm releasing a 50k urban fantasy novel under a psuedo pen name. I think I'm going to distribute that widely and see what happens.


If it is under a pen name, I'd go ahead and release to KU first. Your non-Amazon fans won't be disappointed since you're not advertising to them. From what I can see, KU gives you an initial boost with a new release that you won't get otherwise, even in Urban Fantasy, you'll likely pick up fans you wouldn't get otherwise. Still, it's possible with urban fantasy, you're better off leaving Select after 90 days.

(FYI: I've earned approximately $1 for every $4 I've earned on Amazon this month. That said, other advertisers have promo opportunities Amazon doesn't have. I'm going to try for a few of those in the next few months.)


----------



## Scila (Apr 13, 2014)

Boo, hiss!  

This feels like investing in stocks sometimes, they could at least tell us earlier where the rates will go.


----------



## Lola Carson (Sep 25, 2014)

This is my first report since starting in this business. Can someone tell me why I have #### in place of numbers in my USD total royalties box?


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Lola Carson said:


> This is my first report since starting in this business. Can someone tell me why I have #### in place of numbers in my USD total royalties box?


It's the spreadsheet column width. Just make it wider.


----------



## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Lola Carson said:


> This is my first report since starting in this business. Can someone tell me why I have #### in place of numbers in my USD total royalties box?


Because the number is larger than can be displayed. Adjust the size of the column and you'll get a nice surprise.


----------



## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> Most of my books are $3.99 and I don't consider myself getting hurt. I am picking up a bunch of new fans who only tried my stuff because of KU (and yes I know this because they told me). Pretending all of my borrows would be sales isn't something I do. I know it's not true for me personally. I like expanding my fan base, which is how I look at KU.


I think different genres will have different success rates, too. I think you've said before you write romance and chick-lit. The women I know who read romance read FAST. They need something like KU.

For people in my genre I suspect it's awesome for 90 days for the initial exposure, but then the benefit diminishes quickly.


----------



## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Funny thing is, I would have stayed longer in Select with the new book if they'd kept the approx $2 KOLL payout.
> Kinda backfirish.


If they keep cutting the payout, more books will drop out, and it will become less useful to readers... they don't really want to pay $9.99 a month and find the only ebooks available are short stories that would otherwise be $0.99.

My guess is that it will fade into irrelevance over the next year.


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Marian said:


> But if Amazon continues to adjust the algorithms in favor of books in KU, you might also be hurt.


I can't see Amazon cluttering up their Top 100 lists (Top 1000 even) with indie 99-centers and serials. At some point, they have to quit mucking about with the weighting of KU and promote full-price items. 
They probably wouldn't mind seeing authors pull out their higher-priced books. We've seen some evidence that, if anything, Amazon wants to see prices go up. But instead of just telling us that KU is intended for shorts etc, they let authors go "all in" to make the selection look attractive at the launch of KU.

It's a theory, anyway


----------



## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Edward M. Grant said:


> If they keep cutting the payout, more books will drop out, and it will become less useful to readers... they don't really want to pay $9.99 a month and find the only ebooks available are short stories that would otherwise be $0.99.
> 
> My guess is that it will fade into irrelevance over the next year.


Or become a repository for short erotica. It will then become known as Kinks Unlimited.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2014)

Boo yah wtf


----------



## ketosis (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm happy with anything over a buck.  I've been doing a lot of erotica lately and get great borrows every day, and considering it takes me a day to write and put out a short, it's easy money as far as I'm concerned.  For my longer stuff or non-erotica books, I'll probably consider taking them out, depending what happens for this month and next.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Just got this in an email from KDP:


> We have continued to see strong response from customers to Kindle Unlimited (KU) and are
> adding a bonus of $2.5 million in October to the previously announced base fund amount of
> $3 million.


Did you guys get that email earlier when it was being calculated?


----------



## Chrissy (Mar 31, 2014)

Edward M. Grant said:


> If they keep cutting the payout, more books will drop out, and it will become less useful to readers... they don't really want to pay $9.99 a month and find the only ebooks available are short stories that would otherwise be $0.99.
> 
> My guess is that it will fade into irrelevance over the next year.


No, I don't think Amazon will let KU fade into irrelevance. They need it so they can complete with Scribd and Oyster. You can't have the largest bookseller in the world not in every possible book selling category.

So, if authors continue to flee KU or enough leave that Amazon gets worried, they'll change the rules so you don't have to be exclusive to KU.

That's really all it'll take to get people coming back because they (the authors) would have nothing to lose.

Simple.


----------



## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

I was considering releasing my serial next month and placing it into Select since each installment will be priced at 99 cents. It might still be a good deal, as it's a romance serial... But I'm still concerned. Overall, I HATE the idea of select, but I have no traction on the other retailers yet. I need to start making soon so I can continue to cover expenses for other novels, and even at $1.33, it's much better than 35 cents per copy. 

I understand the need to build other platforms, so I might still enter the serial into select for 90 days, and then expand elsewhere. And keep doing this for serial projects, while going wide with full-length. I don't think KU is going to be able to sustain itself. As I've said elsewhere, I was doing great with my first novel (selling 300 in the first few weeks), then KU hit and my sales sunk to 1 a day and never recovered. 

I regret letting fear prevent me from writing and publishing, because I feel like I got into this game at one of the worst times. Still, I'm going to make a career out of this -- even with the deck being completely stacked against newer authors.


----------



## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

KaraKing said:


> My income has dropped _dramatically_ since the release of KU as well. Each and every month since it's release, my income has gone down more and more. Just when I think it can't get any worse, it goes down again! I went from making around 10k a month before summer, to around 7k since KU launched, and this month I will be lucky to make 5k. I was really hoping for a rebound with the winter season.
> 
> With the share price dropping every month, I am getting very discouraged with Select. I hope and pray they see a loss with this KU crap and kick it to the curb. I don't understand why they would keep a program like this around. I mean they are losing money too... just like we are. Sure, they have subscriptions, but the $ they make from the $9.99 a month is going straight to pay out shares. I understand from a business point of view, they're just trying to bring traffic to the site with hopes that readers will buy other things. Maybe they are going to wait and see if KU helps increase profits over the holiday season and make a decision from there. I just can't imagine KU working out in the long run when it comes to profits for amazon's share holders _and_ authors. Everyone's losing imo.
> 
> I also don't understand why the rate keeps going down while more and more authors are dropping out? Is it because the free trial period expired so less subscribers? I failed math. This hurts my brain.


This is nothing new. I made more my first full year out than I do now. I recommend new authors having had a good year or two, not count on it lasting forever.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Saul Tanpepper said:


> Or become a repository for short erotica. It will then become known as Kinks Unlimited.


LOL!


----------



## VEwoodlake (Jul 11, 2014)

Will probably be under a dollar by 2015, I'd guess.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Did everybody else already get that email, then?  I have no idea how earnings are figured out for KU borrows, but that's a significant price difference.


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

HSh said:


> Did everybody else already get that email, then? I have no idea how earnings are figured out for KU borrows, but that's a significant price difference.


It just hit my inbox.


----------



## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm out **** that noise.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2014)

Wow they're going straight to the bottom now. No finesse. I'm done.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2014)

J Ryan said:


> The problem is when it came out my income on Amazon took a serious nosedive and didn't recover.
> 
> Then when I enrolled in KU it rebounded and I made more from Amazon than I did from the months I widely distributed.
> 
> ...


Pretty much the same here (though my numbers aren't quite that good *I wish*). I unchecked the box to autorenew my titles priced over $2.99, which is basically all my long fiction. For the shorter stuff, and the pure erotica priced at $2.99, $1.25-ish is still okay. Not great, but acceptable. No longer acceptable for longer stuff though. I figure I can always reenroll if I am not getting enough money being out of Select with those titles, but I need to experiment to find out. I'm lucky enough to have a hubby with a job that pays well, so I can afford a dip in income to see what's best for my books.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

C. Gockel said:


> I think different genres will have different success rates, too. I think you've said before you write romance and chick-lit. The women I know who read romance read FAST. They need something like KU.
> 
> For people in my genre I suspect it's awesome for 90 days for the initial exposure, but then the benefit diminishes quickly.


My new pen name is romantic suspense. I don't really write straight romances. My cozy mysteries and chick lit do quite well, though.


----------



## Lia Cooper (Jan 28, 2014)

I've been thinking more and more about only keeping novellas or shorter works in KU and this royalty drop confirms it--at least for me. 

It just isn't worth having full length novels that are priced higher than $2.99 in it and only making $1.33 (or less all we've seen thus far is a decline in KU payouts).


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Chrissy said:


> So, if authors continue to flee KU or enough leave that Amazon gets worried, they'll change the rules so you don't have to be exclusive to KU.
> 
> That's really all it'll take to get people coming back because they (the authors) would have nothing to lose.


It's not a matter of coming back. Authors aren't leaving Amazon, they're leaving KU. So if there is no exclusivity requirement, the only draw Select has is the countdown and freebie days, as before. Countdown doesn't work well across the board and freebies seem to have lost their oomph.
So why bother with Select at all if exclusivity isn't mandatory. There must be something else up Amazon's sleeve.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Lia Cooper said:


> I've been thinking more and more about only keeping novellas or shorter works in KU and this royalty drop confirms it--at least for me.
> 
> It just isn't worth having full length novels that are priced higher than $2.99 in it and only making $1.33 (or less all we've seen thus far is a decline in KU payouts).


That depends on if you believe that every borrow would be a sale, which I don't think is even remotely true. A lot of people are taking a chance on new stuff because of KU -- and I'm happy to benefit from it right now. I'm picking up a ton of new readers -- and that makes me happy. A lot of them have told me they discovered me because of KU. My borrows are slightly higher than my sales right now, but my sales have gone up, too, because of the boost in rank from the borrows. I'm not saying I'm in Select forever. I definitely am through the holidays.


----------



## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Holy ****, I'm out. No way am I keeping my $4.99 novels in there.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

It would sure help if we knew the math was accurate regarding this email, and whether that was taken into account.  It seems apparent later replies are not being read, and reactions are only being posted.  I think I'll sign off KBoards and try to get some writing done.  Maybe this will all make more sense in the morning.


----------



## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Well that's not good...


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

YodaRead said:


> That depends on if you believe that every borrow would be a sale, which I don't think is even remotely true. A lot of people are taking a chance on new stuff because of KU -- and I'm happy to benefit from it right now. I'm picking up a ton of new readers -- and that makes me happy. A lot of them have told me they discovered me because of KU. My borrows are slightly higher than my sales right now, but my sales have gone up, too, because of the boost in rank from the borrows. I'm not saying I'm in Select forever. I definitely am through the holidays.


I think is not about "would a borrow be a sale" than it is about "can I give up these 20 borrows to try getting 20 sales at other vendors".

For many, the answer is "yes" but like those authors have stated, it takes a little time to gain traction there, mainly due to lack of advertising venues. 
And finding new readers at those other venues is also a bonus, especially if you can set things free there without getting on your knees to make that happen.

Still, if I had shorts and serials, I'd certainly stay in KU a while longer.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2014)

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

This program is good for some, especially yodaread, nice numbers btw. 

But like Ive said in a previous post, i am suffering from the law of diminishing returns. First month was awesome. Second, ehh, third -- fuggedabout it. My growth stopped the moment i went exclusive and I've got the data to prove it.


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

Euf this SUCKS! Borrows compromise a huge chunk of my income. I would rather not have it be that way too, and I hate knowing that I'm watching my income spiral downwards going forward. I predict it lands at .75 cents when the dust settles. Whatever it is it will have to be more than .30 cents.


----------



## Lia Cooper (Jan 28, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> That depends on if you believe that every borrow would be a sale, which I don't think is even remotely true. A lot of people are taking a chance on new stuff because of KU -- and I'm happy to benefit from it right now. I'm picking up a ton of new readers -- and that makes me happy. A lot of them have told me they discovered me because of KU. My borrows are slightly higher than my sales right now, but my sales have gone up, too, because of the boost in rank from the borrows. I'm not saying I'm in Select forever. I definitely am through the holidays.


fair point! and i dont think borrows are 100% cannabalizing sales. they are a good way to reach readers, that's why i put both of my series into KU back in August. but on the other hand, i don't think perma-free is dead either and i've noticed that since i made the first book in my novel-length series free (in November after KDP select on it ran out) i've seen a huge upswing in sales for book 2. sales on that book are outperforming all of the rest of my titles (including borrows) and obviously bringing in a higher royalty.

i still stand by what i said about a 1.33 royalty for a $4.99 book is pretty disappointing. i think a better way to maximize might be some sort of hybrid--have 1-2 series in KU and have another that's not in KU, especially if you write multiple series in similar genres (and therefor attract readers who are likely to work through your entire back catalog).


----------



## Chrissy (Mar 31, 2014)

Quiss said:


> *It's not a matter of coming back.* Authors aren't leaving Amazon, they're leaving KU. So *if there is no exclusivity requirement, the only draw Select has is the countdown and freebie days, as before.* Countdown doesn't work well across the board and freebies seem to have lost their oomph.
> So why bother with Select at all if exclusivity isn't mandatory. There must be something else up Amazon's sleeve.


I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the authors who choose to leave Select(and therefore KU) could return to Select/KU without taking a pay hit if exclusivity was lifted.

You mentioned some benefits of Select/KU but *you forgot the most important one, borrows*. KOLL limits the number of possible borrows for the reader. With KU subscribers, borrows are NOT limited.

So authors in a non-exclusive KU would potentially get the benefits of more borrows (plus the other marketing tools you mentioned) AND potentially income from the other vendors (BN, Apple, Kobo, Google etc.)


----------



## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

And I just enrolled all my $2.99 books into Select (after sales crashed on other channels and they had no chance of recovering). Next month it'll be at a $1. Sigh, I guess it's time for me to start writing a short a day lol (and make the amount go down even more).


----------



## S. Shine (Jan 14, 2013)

I'll sit my current 90-day obligations out and will reassess. If things aren't picking up soon, I'll try my luck with the other sales platforms. Seriously did not think it would get any lower than 1.50. Bit of a bummer to say the least. But hey, it isn't 10c yet! lol


----------



## SugarBear57 (Aug 28, 2014)

HSh said:


> It would sure help if we knew the math was accurate regarding this email


I checked my KDP report for the previous month's royalties, and it's definitely $1.33 per borrow.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

postscript1 said:


> I checked my KDP report for the previous month's royalties, and it's definitely $1.33 per borrow.


Thank you.


----------



## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I hope Amazon will separate KU from Select and allow authors to enroll in it. If they're really out to bury Scribd and Oyster, then maybe limit the exclusivity requirement to subscription services. Authors would probably be much more willing to take the lower borrow rate if they could supplement that with income from other vendors.



Quiss said:


> So why bother with Select at all if exclusivity isn't mandatory. There must be something else up Amazon's sleeve.


That's kind of a problem Amazon has had for a while, ever since they separated the free lists from the paid ones. Free is no longer as effective and Countdown has always seemed like something of a joke. If Amazon is going to want to lure indies into exclusivity, they're going to have to think of something else to offer.


----------



## dirtiestdevil (Aug 20, 2014)

Bad news for authors of short books... that means the blue line is looking less and less desirable... 

I doubt my future books will go into KU. A good ride while it lasted, but amazon is just too fickle to risk your livelihood on! 

Some of my most successful authors friends don't even touch KU. I scooped up what gold I could during the rush, however, it looks like the creeks are back to being nothing but mud and water!


----------



## sngraves (Aug 10, 2014)

I could just be my experience, but it seems like KU free days only hurt my numbers. Sure for a day or two I get a tone of borrows and hit the #1 slot in a bunch of categories, but as soon as the sale ends I nosedive and return to invisible again. It really doesn't seem much worth it unless you are writing super short erotica. :/


----------



## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

I'll be keeping my trilogy in due to one book being put into a box set that will also be in select, but I'm not putting my newest book into KU once it's ready to go.


----------



## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Pick&Mix - many of us have titles that are on their knees, and titles that sell well. Leave the first category in KU and pull the others. There's no need for dramatic in/out decisions. Each title is an asset, do what's best for that individual title.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

I quit KU shortly after entering it due to the All Stars fund, but I'm interested in where this rate goes despite my misgivings about exclusivity. I did not think that $1.50 would be as low as it would go as Amazon have been more than a little ad hoc in the whole process from the KU "leak" to the All Star promotion, to the failure to give any indication to publishers as to how low they will go in their fund. They will have had to pump in a further $2.5m as us Brits love a bargain and will have used up a lot of Amazonian dollars in our free months (I'm sure French and Germans love a bargain too). 

As to Scribd (I'll omit Oyster as its US only), it threatened one of the Select pull-factors - the KOLL borrows, but they were only one a month, so KU massively upped the pull-factor. I do not think that Scribd has ever been the target, it is starving everyone else (Nook, Google Play, Apple, Kobo) of authors. I imagine that KDP will be closely monitoring to see if authors leave Select who have been loyal to it for years and if they are the first casualty will be the All Stars bonuses which last month cost IIRC $500,000. 

I doubt that Amazon could afford non-exclusivity for KU. They have too many people spending more than £7.99 a month to go for a gym membership income structure and that fee goes higher once the EU VAT rates change in January.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

EC said:


> Pick&Mix - many of us have titles that are on their knees, and titles that sell well. Leave the first category in KU and pull the others. There's no need for dramatic in/out decisions. Each title is an asset, do what's best for that individual title.


+1


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Edward M. Grant said:


> My guess is that it will fade into irrelevance over the next year.


Not likely - KU for traditionally published and Amazon Imprint authors is a win-win, offering non-exclusivity for trad and full royalty per borrow for both.


----------



## Mike_Author (Oct 19, 2013)

1. With payouts at these levels, is there a risk KU will just become the domain of scamlets and 99c cheapies?
2. Are said "scamlets" (tm Cinisajoy 2014) in any way responsible for this drop in payout? (No idea whether the scamlets are a large or small proportion of KU borrows...)


----------



## Miss Tarheel (Jul 18, 2014)

$1.33 is unacceptable. I was expecting to make almost $600 this month, but with this payout I lost $100. I just released one book yesterday and took it out of Select since it was in the 24 hour window. As soon as my other books hit the 3 month mark this January, they are all coming out too.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

At $1.33, you need to have 3 borrows for every lost sale of books priced at $3.99 to $4.99 to make up the difference. That includes both cannibalized Amazon sales and sales that would have happened at other vendors.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Jessica R (Nov 11, 2012)

Sucks. Problem is, my borrows are way higher than my sales. Of course many of those borrows may never have translated to sales, hard to say. I don't dare pull out of KU and try other platforms. With these numbers though, I may try it when my sales go down again.


----------



## KaraKing (May 25, 2012)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> This is nothing new. I made more my first full year out than I do now. I recommend new authors having had a good year or two, not count on it lasting forever.


I don't expect it to last forever. Even at 10k, that is less than I made monthly for the first two years off one book, and the 10k figure includes two books. BUT&#8230; to have a 50% decrease in income in just a matter of 3-4 months? Coincidently the same time that KU launched? There is more to it than counting on success to last forever. I am a business owner, and I have to analyze my figures and figure out why and what to do, just like any other business owner. This is my finding, and I'm not the only one making the same claims.


----------



## daffodils321 (Oct 31, 2014)

Mike_Author said:


> 1. With payouts at these levels, is there a risk KU will just become the domain of scamlets and 99c cheapies?
> 2. Are said "scamlets" (tm Cinisajoy 2014) in any way responsible for this drop in payout? (No idea whether the scamlets are a large or small proportion of KU borrows...)


I would not rule out that Amazon will add traditionally published books to KU sometime next year. After all, that is the main reason people give for not liking the service (AMZ customer-oriented and all that) and AMZ has just come to those agreements with S/S and Hachette. If AMZ can get some backlist titles from trad pubs I think KU will be just fine.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

Now is the time for Apple and all the other vendors to jump in and make themselves more attractive.  Pull us away.  We're ready to leave.

Somebody claimed Apple has big plans.  Okay, then let's get to it, Apple.  What the _______ are you waiting for?


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

Jessica R said:


> Sucks. Problem is, my borrows are way higher than my sales. Of course many of those borrows may never have translated to sales, hard to say. I don't dare pull out of KU and try other platforms. With these numbers though, I may try it when my sales go down again.


Exactly! I get more borrows than sales right now.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Good lord, I didn't expect that this month. It takes big, brassy ones to reduce the payout by... what 15% in one shot just before Christmas?

My sympathies for everyone that took a hit from this. No snark, no gloating. I sincerely hope this damage doesn't mean you have to go without in the next few months.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

Quote:

*"I don't understand why they would keep a program like this around. I mean they are losing money too"*

Amazon is getting a long-term benefit. When a reader joins, Amazon gets another name on its mailing list.
Now Amazon can send more promotional material to draw the reader into other, more high priced merchandise.
Books are not where the big bucks are for Amazon. It's the general merchandise.
Amazon is VERY good at promoting.
Good move on Amazon's part.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

Vaalingrade said:


> Good lord, I didn't expect that this month. It takes big, brassy ones to reduce the payout by... what 15% in one shot just before Christmas?
> 
> My sympathies for everyone that took a hit from this. No snark, no gloating. I sincerely hope this damage doesn't mean you have to go without in the next few months.


Feel sorry for the people who depend on Amazon's income to survive. I don't depend on Amazon, thank God.


----------



## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

I find this genuinely alarming as God knows what it will have dropped to by the time people are able to leave.


----------



## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

OW said:


> I find this genuinely alarming as God knows what it will have dropped to by the time people are able to leave.


What this should do is knock all to heck all previous notions of what Amazon "would never do." This is a big cut and it's not the first. I wouldn't expect it to be the last. Stay nimble!


----------



## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Bluehorseshoe said:


> My growth stopped the moment i went exclusive and I've got the data to prove it.


I can relate. I started in January and was increasing by at least a third each month until KU. Now not so.

But in a way it's kind of cool, too. Being someone who likes a comfort zone, I was content with staying in KU because I couldn't see anything better for me (at 1.50 per). Now that it's dropped considerably, I'm not so comfortable. One door closes, another door opens. I survived 40 years in business on this principle before I got here and the the principle still applies. For me. So I think I'll have a look around and like EC said, take it one asset at a time.


----------



## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> Good lord, I didn't expect that this month. It takes big, brassy ones to reduce the payout by... what 15% in one shot just before Christmas?
> 
> My sympathies for everyone that took a hit from this. No snark, no gloating. I sincerely hope this damage doesn't mean you have to go without in the next few months.


Neither did I. This is truly incredible. Very bold move this early in the game.


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Miss Tarheel said:


> $1.33 is unacceptable. I was expecting to make almost $600 this month, but with this payout I lost $100. I just released one book yesterday and took it out of Select since it was in the 24 hour window. As soon as my other books hit the 3 month mark this January, they are all coming out too.


How do you do that? I enrolled two titles about an hour before learning of the 1.33 KU share.


----------



## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Brian Spangler said:


> How do you do that? I enrolled two titles about an hour before learning of the 1.33 KU share.


There's a grace period, Brian. Go back on KDP console and go to where you put them into KU, under benefits. You can uncheck that box and take them back out.


----------



## SB James (May 21, 2014)

I definitely think the payout was reduced because of so many "scamlets." I'm wondering if those will be the only "books" left in Select pretty soon. The more good content gets pulled out of KU, the less useful it becomes to readers.


----------



## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

So this is how it feels when a musician looks at their Spotify check lol 

I hate that I "had to" go exclusive (a mandatory change in my books' titles killed sales on non-amazon channels literally overnight), last month I made $1,110 on iTunes, $300 on Google Play. 

I've only been at this for a few months, but jeez, this industry changes fast. Now I know to NEVER get comfortable, even if I'm selling a ton of books. I'm not going to stress over it, though. All of this is out of my control. The only thing I can control is my output, and I'm about to start writing more than ever.  

Luckily I have an extremely low cost of living. Even with my reduced earnings I'm still making more than I did at my crappy customer service job.


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

John Ellsworth said:


> There's a grace period, Brian. Go back on KDP console and go to where you put them into KU, under benefits. You can uncheck that box and take them back out.


That is what I thought.
Strange, but the the uncheck box to opt out is no longer there&#8230; I only enrolled earlier this afternoon.
I'm submitting a ticket to KDP support to pull my books out. At these borrow rates, I do better elsewhere.


----------



## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I got that email, and figured they were keeping the payout at 1.50. Nope, my numbers come out to 1.33. It's not a huge amount, about $10, but to me that meant a lot.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Short works in, longer out, I guess. My novel comes out on the 24th, I think (already unchecked the renewal box, but I'm going to make sure it stays unchecked).


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Someone said maybe trade publishers will be in KU next year.  When did Suzanne Collins go indie?  George Takei,  Diary of A Wimpy Kid?  They are already there.  
If you want to know, click the ad then browse all KU titles.


----------



## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm out. Not only because of the borrow rate but also because Amazon still hasn't paid me my November payment (for August earnings). I was reluctant to become exclusive with one vendor and now I am certain that I won't put myself in this position again.


----------



## James Novus (May 5, 2014)

The silver lining for me is that I was on the fence about staying in Select. This helps bolster my confidence in branching out to other sales channels.  

Too bad I had just re-upped for another 90 days, but come early February I'm out.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

The real concern people should have is the Global Fund.

For the August report, Amazon pumped the thing up to almost 8 million to force it to 1.54.

This time, they only put raised it to 5.5 million to get it to 1.33. So this isn't the amount of total borrows going up and driving down the per unit rate. This was Amazon actively not putting much more money into the Fund.


----------



## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

definitely disappointing


----------



## Kathy Clark Author (Dec 18, 2012)

Now we've got similar issues with Taylor!

Need break up song titles...
* Load 16 tons and what do you get...
* Why do you have to be so mean?
* 
*


----------



## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Kathy Clark a.k.a. Bob Kat said:


> Now we've got similar issues with Taylor!
> 
> Need break up song titles...
> * Load 16 tons and what do you get...
> ...


I plan on publishing 15 pages of nothing but white space. Hoping it goes to number one.

Also going to title my next release "Read."


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I had already decided, for a number of other reasons as well (it is definitely time to go wide), to take my New Zealand books out of Select, and had unchecked all my boxes. I guess this just bolsters that decision, although it's certainly a disappointing number and an ominous downward trend.

Whether intentionally or not, I read the message being sent as--this is a place for Amazon imprints and short, preferably sexy reads. I think it's a great spot for erom serials and erotica. I don't think it's such a great spot for $4.99 novels. Or at least, I'll be testing to see whether I can build a platform elsewhere with a series. Since I'm one of the only good-selling romance authors I know who's still all-in with Select, I have to think it's possible to do OK elsewhere. We will see!

It's been great, KDP. And it's too much to hope that things stay the same in publishing. They don't. Change is scary, but in this business, it's necessary. So--here I go! Got myself set up on the other platforms, got my epubs, and I'm set to dive in!


----------



## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

MeganBryce said:


> Rosalind, you're going to rock it going wide. I could never go back to exclusive and I don't sell anywhere near as well as you. I can't believe you lasted this long!


This. I think you'll do amazingly well on other platforms.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks so much, guys. You are so sweet. It's a scary step, but it's time.


----------



## VEwoodlake (Jul 11, 2014)

Had Amazon not dumped in an additional 2.5 million to the fund, borrows would have been a little over 70 cents. Is this the what they are slowly sinking toward?


----------



## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Thanks so much, guys. You are so sweet. It's a scary step, but it's time.


Looking forward to seeing how it goes for you Rosalind. Good luck!


----------



## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

Good luck, Rosalind! I'm sure you will do amazingly well with other vendors, too.


----------



## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

Just adding my voice to the chorus of OUT. I had already unticked the renew buttons last week, and this just confirms my choice.


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

I went wide about a year ago, and I definitely did not trust the KU roll out. The fact it hurt sales in the first place warned me off it. That being said, my sales on other vendors are doing pretty well, and consistently well. Especially good old B&N and Itunes. Amazon is good, but I'll never go exclusive with my long works.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I hope people who run ad sites are seeing all these people in need of advertising on other platforms.


----------



## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

Amazon may be letting the payout drop because they're not sure they want higher-priced novels in KULL any more than authors do.  They may be tallying their figures to see whether an author's short works in KULL will make subscribers cough up hard cash for that same author's novels which are outside of KULL.  If Amazon is seeing signs that subscribers will do this, once readers discover new writers, the Zon may carefully start to steer authors in the direction of pulling their novels out (via dropping the KULL share price) but leaving it just high enough to make it worthwhile it for shorter work, if those short pieces do the job of tantalizing readers into making extra purchases.

Amazon undoubtedly wants to strike a happy medium of pleasing authors, pleasing KULL subscribers, and pleasing their stockholders by actually producing some profits.


----------



## GP Hudson (Sep 16, 2013)

I have to agree with others. This is definitely the result of all these scammy little books that have been flooding Amazon lately. Amazon really needs to step things up and start banning people or their KU experiment will fall apart in no time.


----------



## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

LOL. I thought I was doing well, because I had 1267 borrows in October. I was all like, woo-hoo, maybe I'll actually get into a bonus category! And then I start reading this thread and people are making between $6K--$20K. LOL! You all are blowing me out of the water!

Hey, my lovely super-stars, can I ask you what price points you're using and how many titles you have out? Amazon's pricing tool wants me to crank up my prices to $7.99, but I'm thinking that's kinda whacked and will lead me to a month of all borrows and no sales.

However, even though the borrow rate SUCKS (are you listening Amazon? You have to pump more money into that bee-yotch), the income growth rate is staggering. I'm not sure if that's due to KUF or putting out another release though.

Rosalind, let us know how you do wide. Before KUF came along, I was wide and I made a whopping $500 for the month. Once KUF rolled out and I went Select, my monthly income shot up to $3K, then $5K. The thought of returning to less-than-minimum-wage monthly income terrifies me. You're in a much better position than me though, since you have a bunch of titles and a ton of fans!

I'm really curious about how leaving the program will affect sales and income. I think KUF does cannibalize sales, but it also brings sales that otherwise wouldn't happen. I just wish I knew the ratio.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

GP Hudson said:


> I have to agree with others. This is definitely the result of all these scammy little books that have been flooding Amazon lately. Amazon really needs to step things up and start banning people or their KU experiment will fall apart in no time.


Again, Amazon put _less_ money into the Global Fund this time. This wasn't the Fund getting diluted, it was the Fund being smaller.


----------



## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

They really need to bump up the fund if they want people to stay, they cant keep rolling out new areas and not up the fund. They will be left with nothing but little scam booklets.


----------



## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Right. They could have added more money. They didn't. The two obvious reasons are a) it's not profitable or b) they're trying to feel out what we'll tolerate as suppliers. Neither is very comforting.


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> I hope people who run ad sites are seeing all these people in need of advertising on other platforms.


THIS


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

they are trying to determine the cheapest possible rate you will accept for your work as part of the program to maximize its profitability (or lack thereof)


----------



## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Unicorn said:


> Also, the lowest borrows have ever been was $1.01 and the highest they've ever been was $2.20. A majority of the time they hover around $1.50 to $1.80. Borrow pay has ALWAYS taken huge drops and leaps like this, even before KU. KU borrow pay has not been out of the ordinary for pre-KU borrow pays. It's just that there were about 4 months in a row of $2 borrows just before KU came out, that everyone thought $2 would stay. Now that it's dropping back to the way it was before the $2 spike, people are panicking. I think all those pays above $1.80 were the flukes, because they were unusual.


This is incorrect.

The lowest borrow rate before KU was $1.60. The highest was $2.51.

Payouts of $1.80 were hardly "flukes," as the borrow rate exceeded $1.80 for 29 months in a row. In other words, every month except for the first two. And in 24 of those months it topped $2.

Before KU, the historical average borrow payout was $2.16.

These figures are available from the KDP monthly reports:

12/11: $1.70
01/12: $1.60
02/12: $2.01
03/12: $2.18
04/12: $2.48
05/12: $2.26
06/12: $2.08
07/12: $2.04
08/12: $2.12
09/12: $2.29
10/12: $2.36
11/12: $1.90
12/12: $1.88
01/13: $2.23
02/13: $2.31
03/13: $1.94
04/13: $2.27
05/13: $2.24
06/13: $2.24
07/13: $2.04
08/13: $2.26
09/13: $2.42
10/13: $2.51
11/13: $2.46
12/13: $1.86
01/14: $1.93
02/14: $2.24
03/14: $2.10
04/14: $2.24
05/14: $2.17
06/14: $2.24

(Avg. = $2.16)


----------



## Rae Scott Studio (Jan 26, 2014)

Most my income from October is from KU... I am new so it matters. Its more then triple what I did in regular sales. I am thinking for NEW authors its a good resource to have. If someone is just BORROWING the book (taking a chance on a new author), it is a good way for people to try out new authors without feeling like their going to be wasting money.

If you have a substantial backlog and a solid base of loyal readers then it may not effect you as much and you MAY be better off going without. But as a NEW author I see it as a valuable resource for myself and I cant say that I am going to pull from it anytime soon.


----------



## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Mike McIntyre said:


> The lowest borrow rate before KU was $1.60. The highest was $2.51.
> 
> Payouts of $1.80 were hardly "flukes," as the borrow rate exceeded $1.80 for 29 months in a row. In other words, every month except for the first two. And in 24 of those months it topped $2.
> 
> Before KU, the historical average borrow payout was $2.16.


I really appreciate you continuing to set the record straight on this stuff, Mike. It's very valuable perspective.


----------



## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Ditto that. Thank you, Mike! The hard number data is always valuable.


----------



## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

*sigh* I also made a post on my website explaining to my fans I was going exclusive with Amazon so they can utilize KU. It got an overwhelmingly positive response from my fans. I even have a "No Kindle?" link at the top of my page explaining what to do if you don't have a Kindle and also why I'm in KU. 

It'd be hard to go back 3 months later and say "Just kidding! Forget everything I just said!" 

I'm going to give it a lot more time before making a decision since it has been lucrative for me, but if it drops below a dollar I may begin to wonder.


----------



## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Mike McIntyre said:


> This is incorrect.
> 
> The lowest borrow rate before KU was $1.60. The highest was $2.51.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this. I knew her post was innacurate and was hoping you'd come along!

I'm going to have dig up the post 6/14 numbers. It's a staggering change when you see it like this.


----------



## Rae Scott Studio (Jan 26, 2014)

Look I dont know if this has ANYTHING to do with it but I have worked retail long enough to know this much about company funds and such. Up until November it is not at all unusual for retail stores to operate either in the red or just this side of it.The BULK of the money a business will make in a year tends to happen during the PRIME shopping season, November-December. Those 2 months alone of holiday shopping often will bring most every single company back into the black and with flush pockets to start the new year with. 
  
When I worked in the store during the summer and September through the first part of October were the HARDEST months for payroll hours due to lack of money being made and the company being unwilling to expend more then it knew it could make up. Once Prime Shopping Season Prep started (mid to late October) it was all hands on deck and hours were to be had everywhere. It may be the same with Amazon. maybe they didnt perform as well as the expected and as such didnt have the extra to keep the payouts up but once the Prime Shopping Season starts the payouts will go back up.

As a new author I am not jumping ship on Select yet. I want to use it to my advantage if it ever gets to a point where it is no longer performing as well for me then I will re-evaluate then.


----------



## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

J Ryan said:


> *sigh* I also made a post on my website explaining to my fans I was going exclusive with Amazon so they can utilize KU. It got an overwhelmingly positive response from my fans. I even have a "No Kindle?" link at the top of my page explaining what to do if you don't have a Kindle and also why I'm in KU.
> 
> It'd be hard to go back 3 months later and say "Just kidding! Forget everything I just said!"
> 
> I'm going to give it a lot more time before making a decision since it has been lucrative for me, but if it drops below a dollar I may begin to wonder.


Good for you for making the decision that looked best at that time. None of us can see the future. If things reach a point where KU no longer makes sense for you, then by all means go wide, but never feel bad for pulling the trigger on what seems best for your career right now. It's never a mistake. It's an experiment.


----------



## Gator (Sep 28, 2012)

Monique said:


> I'm going to have dig up the post 6/14 numbers. It's a staggering change when you see it like this.


No need. Here ya go:

07/01/14,$1.81
08/01/14,$1.54
09/01/14,$1.52
10/01/14,$1.33

And yes, October's payout is 38.4% less than the average payout before KU. Of note, it's 47% less than the payout one year ago.


----------



## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Gator said:


> No need. Here ya go:
> 
> 07/01/14,$1.81
> 08/01/14,$1.54
> ...


Thanks. Was just coming back with that. It's really interesting when you see it all laid out like that from the beginnng to where we are now.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> I really appreciate you continuing to set the record straight on this stuff, Mike. It's very valuable perspective.


Yes, thank you, Mike!


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

amazon did this on purpose. Calculated rate volume analysis. If they pay X and lose Y titles, subscribers etc are they still better off after the borrow drop? They are testing this and collecting data and looking at the elasticity between the supplier and the payout. There will be an optimized number which the program will settle at its possible they have breached it here based on the response I've seen at various places. think Netflix price increase from a couple of years ago but on the cost side... If Amazon wanted to pay 1.5X they would have. Don't like it? Uncllick the box. The idioindians on their csr side won't help you. So you got to show them you mean business and pull from the program and draw a line in the sand. Just like any negotiation you have to be prepared to walk.


----------



## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

That is seriously bad for an author's point of view. After the first of the year, I have to really consider pulling everything from Select.


----------



## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I can't get out until Jan and am now really concerned about what the payout will be during the holiday period.


----------



## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

I'll predict the KU rate going up in December. And maybe going down to 0.75c sometime next year, but without needing to be exclusive.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Rae Scott Studio said:


> Look I dont know if this has ANYTHING to do with it but I have worked retail long enough to know this much about company funds and such. Up until November it is not at all unusual for retail stores to operate either in the red or just this side of it.The BULK of the money a business will make in a year tends to happen during the PRIME shopping season, November-December. Those 2 months alone of holiday shopping often will bring most every single company back into the black and with flush pockets to start the new year with.


The way the Global Fund (according to Amazon) works, the fewer actual borrows there are overall, the higher the per-unit payout should be. That's not what happened. The amount of borrows appears to have been steady while Amazon put in more than two million dollars less to boost the fun.

Whatever happened here, it wasn't an issue of market forces because Amazon has stepped in four months in a row to remove those forces and increase the fund from where the payout would have been otherwise (This month, someone up thread calculated that it would have been 70 cents without that extra 2.5 million, I calculated the initial payout at launch at 50 cents before they added more than four million to the pot, etc)


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Vaalingrade said:


> The way the Global Fund (according to Amazon) works, the fewer actual borrows there are overall, the higher the per-unit payout should be. That's not what happened. The amount of borrows appears to have been steady while Amazon put in more than two million dollars less to boost the fun.
> 
> Whatever happened here, it wasn't an issue of market forces because Amazon has stepped in four months in a row to remove those forces and increase the fund from where the payout would have been otherwise (This month, someone up thread calculated that it would have been 70 cents without that extra 2.5 million, I calculated the initial payout at launch at 50 cents before they added more than four million to the pot, etc)


Where do you get your numbers on the borrow rate being steady?


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

KaiW said:


> And only 84p for UK


Hmmm... getting close to that magical £0.77p isn't it? I wonder if that is a coincidence. For non Brits, 77p is 99cents, and all those $0.99 promos usually sell here for 77p (and everyone loves it of course)


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

_Appears_ to have been steady. That being because the rate came out significantly lower, but in proportion with the smaller amount being put into the Global Fund.

If borrows had gone down appreciably, they wouldn't have had to put as much into the Fund because the payout would have risen.

On the other hand, if they had increased a great deal, the payout would have dropped, but Amazon would have to put _more_ money in to keep it at the amount they wanted.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

J Ryan said:


> The problem is when it came out my income on Amazon took a serious nosedive and didn't recover.
> 
> Then when I enrolled in KU it rebounded and I made more from Amazon than I did from the months I widely distributed.
> 
> I fear that if I drop out of KU my visibility dies again and I earn less being widely distrubted then I do distributing to KU.


If you're serious about coming out in the future, I wouldn't do it all at once. Pick one series to build visibility upon in external channels, while money continues to come in (though in ever depreciating amounts in Select) and then when you have some traction, reevaluate your remaining catolgue. I have my two shortest in KU (65k and 75k) the rest out for a long time.

For those really interested, Google is the fastest to build income for me, Apple the slowest. Barnes is second to Amazon at about 50% if all Amazon stores combined (after a 40% drop when KU came out) Kobo is starting to move as well.

The thing is, it took years to build to its current income levels, not months or weeks. It would be quicker now mind you. I've been in the other places a long time, but last year around this time was my first entry into Google and Audible. Those two channels exploded sales numbers almost straight away. All others take time.

Really, if you're serious about it, you can't just go out there for a few months and then scamper back. You have to go out there with your chosen books, and market them the way you do for Amazon. Sales won't just happen I am afraid. Permafrees, ENT, BB, Midlist all these places help you get visibility at Amazon, but BB really works well with Nook and Google I have found. All my channels benefit when I do BB.

The above is from my own experience YMMV etc etc


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Vaalingrade said:


> _Appears_ to have been steady. That being because the rate came out significantly lower, but in proportion with the smaller amount being put into the Global Fund.
> 
> If borrows had gone down appreciably, they wouldn't have had to put as much into the Fund because the payout would have risen.
> 
> On the other hand, if they had increased a great deal, the payout would have dropped, but Amazon would have to put _more_ money in to keep it at the amount they wanted.


How does it appear to be steady? Mine went up 100 a day. Mine can hardly be the only ones. Amazon also launched KU in multiple other countries. I didn't look at exact borrows for other countries, but I have a little more than 1,000 borrows in the UK so far this month. So, the question is, how did borrows appear to remain steady? Also, Amazon DID add to the pot.


----------



## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

Vaalingrade said:


> Again, Amazon put _less_ money into the Global Fund this time. This wasn't the Fund getting diluted, it was the Fund being smaller.


September: ... and are adding a bonus of $2 million in September to the previously announced base fund amount of $3 million.
October: ... and are adding a bonus of $2.5 million in October to the previously announced base fund amount of $3 million.

That's not less. Or did you mean something else?


----------



## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

Just by the way:

September share $ 1.52, September pot 5 millions, implies: 3,230,000 borrows
October share $ 1.33, October pot 5.5 millions, implies: 4,140,000 borrows

That's a significant 28 % increase, KU is growing and fast.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

books_mb said:


> Just by the way:
> 
> September share $ 1.52, September pot 5 millions, implies: 3,230,000 borrows
> October share $ 1.33, October pot 5.5 millions, implies: 4,140,000 borrows
> ...


Those statistics do not warrant your conclusion. More borrows might mean people reading shorter books to try to get their money's worth out of their ten bucks / eight quid or because they've run out of mainstream bestsellers to read. KU's performance will be pure guesswork until Amazon stops rolling it out around the world. As a monthly scheme members can switch in and out depending on how much reading time they have, so ignore a big dip in January it might mean that people are reading their Christmas gifts and will return to KU/Scribd in February. This is where the gym membership analogy breaks down - KU/Scribd is a contractless monthly payment not a 12 month commitment.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Go back to what they added for August and July.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

YodaRead said:


> How does it appear to be steady? Mine went up 100 a day. Mine can hardly be the only ones. Amazon also launched KU in multiple other countries. I didn't look at exact borrows for other countries, but I have a little more than 1,000 borrows in the UK so far this month. So, the question is, how did borrows appear to remain steady? Also, Amazon DID add to the pot.


Not yours personally. Across the board. Somehow, I'm pretty sure you knew that.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> I had already decided, for a number of other reasons as well (it is definitely time to go wide), to take my New Zealand books out of Select, and had unchecked all my boxes. I guess this just bolsters that decision, although it's certainly a disappointing number and an ominous downward trend.
> 
> Whether intentionally or not, I read the message being sent as--this is a place for Amazon imprints and short, preferably sexy reads. I think it's a great spot for erom serials and erotica. I don't think it's such a great spot for $4.99 novels. Or at least, I'll be testing to see whether I can build a platform elsewhere with a series. Since I'm one of the only good-selling romance authors I know who's still all-in with Select, I have to think it's possible to do OK elsewhere. We will see!
> 
> It's been great, KDP. And it's too much to hope that things stay the same in publishing. They don't. Change is scary, but in this business, it's necessary. So--here I go! Got myself set up on the other platforms, got my epubs, and I'm set to dive in!


Ros, you will sell huge "out there" I'm amazed you hung in there this long.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Everyone trying to play 'gotcha' here does realize that my analysis was to argue _against_ the idea that this is because KU is full of scam books, right? Wrong target for the swarm defense.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Vaalingrade said:


> The way the Global Fund (according to Amazon) works, the fewer actual borrows there are overall, the higher the per-unit payout should be. That's not what happened. The amount of borrows appears to have been steady while Amazon put in more than two million dollars less to boost the fun.
> 
> Whatever happened here, it wasn't an issue of market forces because Amazon has stepped in four months in a row to remove those forces and increase the fund from where the payout would have been otherwise (This month, someone up thread calculated that it would have been 70 cents without that extra 2.5 million, I calculated the initial payout at launch at 50 cents before they added more than four million to the pot, etc)


Maybe they're just recouping last month's All Stars payout? It's a theory.


----------



## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

Gator said:


> No need. Here ya go:
> 
> 07/01/14,$1.81
> 08/01/14,$1.54
> ...


Though people tend to forget that the payout per borrow is absolutely meaningless out of context. Who would judge a company by the price it sets for its product instead of the incoming revenues? Units sold is clearly just as relevant as price. My tip (not directed at Gator): instead of freaking out over drop in payout per borrow, compute the daily income from borrows pre-KU and post-KU. Compare and decide based on that. For me the post-KU income from borrows is still more than the pre-KU income because of the increase in volume and I've seen no cannibalization of sales. As long as this is the case, there's really no need to go out of Select. Once it goes below the pre-KU income (which would be the case for $ 1.05 at the current borrow rate), I'll leave.

That said, I'm glad borrows are only 20 % of my overall sales. I dislike the lack of transparency and randomness. Amazon might be consumer-friendly, but it doesn't seem to be author-friendly. Getting the blueprints for an H-bomb (good day to you, guy from NSA) is probably simpler than figuring out what Amazon is up to. They release game-changing programs without warning, change their algorithms without giving any details, don't give you the data that would allow you to judge the success of your ad, set the pot as they please, ... horrible. Of course, Apple or Google are not really better when it comes to transparency.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I'm a bit worried about Rosalind going wide. I think she's going to break the internet.


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Gator said:


> No need. Here ya go:
> 
> 07/01/14,$1.81
> 08/01/14,$1.54
> ...


Another perspective to the diminishing payout is that a larger amount is being used to pay for the non-exclusive and full royalty borrows. As a reader, the number of KU books that I'm seeing available elsewhere has increased.


----------



## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm taking the hit in visibility. Books pulled in Jan, I only need to sell 1/3 of what I'm selling at hit the same income I get now. I can't run a business off maybes and wildly fluctuating payouts. It's a shame, because KDPS has been good to me so far, but it's time to try other distributors too. Sorry 'Zon, but we're Indie, which means we can do what we want, we adapt, and can take our books/trade elsewhere; in others words, don't let the door hit you on the way out...


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Please, people, everyone remain calm.

Take a few months before you decide to leave KU. Sleep on it another 90 days. All is well.

Ahem,  I'm in no way saying that because my sales elsewhere have gone up since so many folks have abandoned ship there and gone exclusive at Amazon.


----------



## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I've unchecked the "automatically re-enroll" box for everything except Fairies and Fireflies, for which I'm still getting a respectable number of borrows. Everything else is going "wide" in December, after they're all out of Select.

In December, you may see me back asking for advice on how to go direct to iBooks - I'll probably use D2D for everything else, but I've heard (here) people say that you really should go direct on Apple if at all possible, because it increases visibility.


----------



## LJ (Feb 14, 2014)

Welp, this is the kick in the pants I needed. Quiss, you'll be happy to know that I'm locked in for another ninety days on one of my series. You're welcome! 

I've enjoyed being in Select. It's been good to me. But my CEO hat says it's time to learn about metadata and keywords elsewhere. (Yes, my hats talk to me.) I think my biggest fear with going wide (in addition to losing visibility) is all the time it's going to take to learn about new platforms, how to position there, how to advertise, etc. But as no one owes me a living...guess I better get my butt in gear. I hope it pays off!



Lydniz said:


> I'm a bit worried about Rosalind going wide. I think she's going to break the internet.


Oooh, I hope she does! Go, Rosalind, go!!!


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

beccaprice said:


> I've unchecked the "automatically re-enroll" box for everything except Fairies and Fireflies, for which I'm still getting a respectable number of borrows. Everything else is going "wide" in December, after they're all out of Select.
> 
> In December, you may see me back asking for advice on how to go direct to iBooks - I'll probably use D2D for everything else, but I've heard (here) people say that you really should go direct on Apple if at all possible, because it increases visibility.


Direct to Apple is what I do and haven't had a problem. I do the same for Nook and Kobo and starting to look at Google Play. 
Not sure how direct increases visibility, but it does increase control in setting book metadata such as price.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

KaiW said:


> And only 84p for UK


Yep and that is not good enough. Most of my books are priced at $3.99, which is about £2.50 and I thought £1 per borrow would be ok if it meant more books being read. But less than a £1? It is time Amazon put KU on a separate scheme to Select. Loads of people of the kdp forum are promising to leave select because of it, so does that leave more for the rest of us? Or is KU going to get the worst reputation because all that will be left will be junk that doesn't sell.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

It has occurred to me that if a lot of authors are leaving Select, but KU is still gold rushing for erotica authors then if Amazon thought to destroy Scribd they failed miserably. Scribd do not allow erotica in their subscription library (not that you'd know it from the amount of male torso on the Smashwords account zoetrope), while KU is apparently best for erotica. Less target and destroy and more separate spheres of influence.


----------



## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

My last two are out this week. I've been on this roller coaster too long as is. 

Wonder what percent are actually migrating away from Select now, if Amazon will notice, and what, if anything, they'll do about it?


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> If you're serious about coming out in the future, I wouldn't do it all at once. Pick one series to build visibility upon in external channels, while money continues to come in (though in ever depreciating amounts in Select) and then when you have some traction, reevaluate your remaining catolgue. I have my two shortest in KU (65k and 75k) the rest out for a long time.
> 
> For those really interested, Google is the fastest to build income for me, Apple the slowest. Barnes is second to Amazon at about 50% if all Amazon stores combined (after a 40% drop when KU came out) Kobo is starting to move as well.
> 
> ...


Absolutely! Sales won't just happen... Maybe some authors have overnight miracles, but for most of us sales on other platforms take time, work and patience. You already know how to do this, and it's worth it. The old adage about the dangers of putting all of your eggs in one basket still holds.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

I've unchecked the box for my Benton books. (It's been in Select long enough anyway. So it's time to remove it.) The term for the first one ends today, November 15. I'll send it to the additional platforms on Monday.

My short erotica books will remain in Select. People WILL pay $2.99 for short erotica. However, the $1.33 royalty rate is fine for those. In fact, the rate would have to drop really, really low for me to no longer bother with Select for short erotica.

I don't care what the people who are gloating about this have to say. *I come to decisions on my own terms.*. Select has been great for my Benton books, but I've decided it's time to go. Being an author is my job for life. I will always publish books. Therefore, if Select ever returns to a decent royalty rate for my non-erotica books, I'd be happy to place a new non-erotica series in Select.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Marian said:


> Absolutely! Sales won't just happen... Maybe some authors have overnight miracles, but for most of us sales on other platforms take time, work and patience. You already know how to do this, and it's worth it.


Absolutely. Amazon and KU are very seductive because the results seem to come so much more quickly and so it can be easy to rush back into the fold if you don't seem to be getting traction elsewhere immediately. I've been on other platforms for a year and a half and my sales are only now starting to grow there. That might be because I haven't promoted, but still, I want to stay wide and grow everywhere else because I really don't want to be relying just on Amazon for a living.


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Change is scary, but in this business, it's necessary. So--here I go! Got myself set up on the other platforms, got my epubs, and I'm set to dive in!


Go for it, Rosalind! You'll be a great success.


----------



## SVD (Jan 15, 2013)

Think I'll get out as well. I wasn't getting a ton of borrows. If Amazon drops exclusivity, I might try again.


----------



## Mark Dawson (Mar 24, 2012)

I can't say I'm happy about the slide down towards $1 per borrow, but, on the other hand, I've had my best months since KU launched. I've got my main sellers in the tent - Milton and Rose - and my revenue (which, as stated above, is the only thing that really matters) has gone up 20% month on month. KU is a big factor in that, with sales staying steady throughout - even growing a bit. 

KCDs have been very powerful recently and then - as noted in another thread - I was offered KDDs for all of my eligible titles in the UK and had an amazing weekend off the back of it.

I am naturally disinclined towards exclusivity, but - for me - the others can't hold a candle to Amazon and I have a mortgage to pay. I'm also a bit of a pessimist, and live in fear of royalties coming down, but, for now, I'm following my wife's advice and making hay. The sun won't shine forever, but it is now, so...

(Kobo is an exception to the poor performing other platforms - I've had success with them over the last couple of months, and would love to add to my catalogue there - but, for now, Select is just too powerful).


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Vaalingrade said:


> Again, Amazon put _less_ money into the Global Fund this time. This wasn't the Fund getting diluted, it was the Fund being smaller.


Amazon's last quarterly report was so bad that the stock tanked. No one knows what goes on inside the company, but it's clear from their quarterly report that Amazon doesn't have extra cash to fund much of anything. But they will fund the All Stars to put up a front that KU is offering quality. It's an illusion that they think people will buy. It kind of reminds me of bait and switch.


----------



## skyle (Oct 13, 2014)

Well, I'm disappointed by the figure as I was calculating more, but as EA says - it is still not a bad deal for erotica. I do hope we aren't the scammy little books being referred to up post? Perhaps we are, erotica authors are not overly loved on here! Anyway, I also write romance novels and they are not in select anyway, but for erotica I still think KU makes a difference in a positive way. I guess it is okay getting $1.33 for a 7k short story that I'm selling at $2.99 generally. But it is definitely _not_ okay for a 50k novel that I'm usually selling at $4.99!

Perhaps KU will pan out to be something that new writers try, but ultimately is mainly a market for short stories?


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

skyle said:


> I do hope we aren't the scammy little books being referred to up post?


I think its a reference to taking a novel and uploading it chapter by chapter to maximise payouts.


----------



## rashad.freeman001 (Feb 23, 2012)

At this point I don't think you have a choice but to remove your titles.  At 1.75 or 2.00 the math probably makes sense, but cannibalizing your sells for KU when the payout is tanking is insane.  I just removed the option for the auto renew so as of the 17th I won't have any books in KU.  Worst case I re enroll but I think if Amazon saw a mass exodus they may make a change.  Thumbs down on KU!!!


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Mercia McMahon said:


> I think its a reference to taking a novel and uploading it chapter by chapter to maximise payouts.


I believe they were referring to this post about the scamlets:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,200648.0.html


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

The way the KU program is constructed incentives short piece readers the most. Therefore i am not at all surprised to see the declining payout. Relatively flat pool of money divided by more average borrows as KU authors write shorter and shorter pieces. 

The more you sit back and think about the winners and losers here, the more you realize that the program is heavily skewed and really doesnt appear to have been thought out very well. Wait till all those new kindle's come loaded with FREE one month of KU - i would think borrow rates drop further, though after this backlash who knows if they can without dismantling the program.


----------



## GP Hudson (Sep 16, 2013)

SevenDays said:


> I believe they were referring to this post about the scamlets:
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,200648.0.html


Yup, that is what I was referring to.


----------



## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

I was a bit surprised to see the $1.33 borrow rate and did a recalculation of my October projections -- was $221 different.   Luckily, my projection underestimated total revenues due to changes in interest rates and so I am only out $46 in the end.  

I pulled all my books out of KDPS in April due to a multi-author boxed set that was being put on all channels. I only did well on the other channels (B&N, iBooks, Kobo) once I did three 99c Bookbub promotions. Then I had some really great months which made up for the 50% drop in income from Amazon after KU started. When sales dried up on the other channels after the effects of the Bookbubs waned, I went all in to KDPS /KU to see what KU was all about and whether it worked for me. I've seen a drop in actual sales and an increase in borrows that makes up the difference so I'm even-Steven. I'm getting more visibility and new readers, but what kind of readers are they? Will they still purchase books or only borrow?

My books sell usually for $4.99 and I make a regular $10K a month off sales.

I'm taking my books off KU in January when their terms are up. That's when I'm eligible for another series of Bookbubs. I'll open back up on other channels at the same time and see how long I can ride that pony. 

Gotta stay nimble. No one owes me a living and so I have to go out there and make one!  I also have a busy production schedule for 2015 with 2 series and a standalone planned. The best defence against changes in terms at Amazon and elsewhere is new content.


----------



## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm in until after Christmas, then I'm (probably) pulling most of my stuff out. That is assuming the payout keeps falling a little bit each month.

So many other authors are gaining traction on other platforms, I want a piece of that action too--even if it means I'll make less $$$.

*This is exactly what a lot of us predicted would happen with the payout.*


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

Mathematically inevitable if the pot stays constant.


----------



## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Bluehorseshoe said:


> Mathematically inevitable if the pot stays constant.


The one thing that has not been constant is the pot. It's all smoke and mirrors. Amazon knows what they want the payout to be each month and adjust the pot ex post facto to meet that number. The pot is just a big number with no real meaning and only one purpose: to make us all go "ooh."


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Marian said:


> Amazon's last quarterly report was so bad that the stock tanked. No one knows what goes on inside the company, but it's clear from their quarterly report that Amazon doesn't have extra cash to fund much of anything. But they will fund the All Stars to put up a front that KU is offering quality. It's an illusion that they think people will buy. It kind of reminds me of bait and switch.


I wonder how long they're going to be able to be able to keep black-boxing everything before the shareholders rise up and say 'Yeah, no. We want to see what the hell you're doing here'.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

i agree. i am surprised it hasn't already happened given the atmospheric valuation of amazon's stock. I sometimes wonder if Bezos isnt trolling the stockholders. lol


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Vaalingrade said:


> I wonder how long they're going to be able to be able to keep black-boxing everything before the shareholders rise up and say 'Yeah, no. We want to see what the hell you're doing here'.


While there is pressure to make a profit the pressure is less than on other companies because Amazon's costs (failed cell phone launches aside) are mostly to do with moving physical product. That gives shareholders a lot of realizable assets (warehouses, drone armies, etc) to rely on in the worst case scenario of Amazon waiting so long to turn a profit that a rival takes its market share (as Jeff Bezos admits will eventually happen).


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Mercia McMahon said:


> While there is pressure to make a profit the pressure is less than on other companies because Amazon's costs (failed cell phone launches aside) are mostly to do with moving physical product. That gives shareholders a lot of realizable assets (warehouses, drone armies, etc) to rely on in the worst case scenario of Amazon waiting so long to turn a profit that a rival takes its market share (as Jeff Bezos admits will eventually happen).


If the Chinese website Alibaba comes to the US, which I read that they might be doing, Amazon will have real trouble. The companies will be direct competitors. Alibaba is HUGE. If it happens, it will be quite a show.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

cant wait to put my ebooks on alibaba lol


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Bluehorseshoe said:


> cant wait to put my ebooks on alibaba lol


We'll all put our books on Alibaba!


----------



## Mike_Author (Oct 19, 2013)

Vaalingrade said:


> Everyone trying to play 'gotcha' here does realize that my analysis was to argue _against_ the idea that this is because KU is full of scam books, right? Wrong target for the swarm defense.


I can't find anyone trying to play gotcha with you. I would love to get more info on the global fund stats you are using as I can't find a reference to them (I have no idea where to look). It would be awesome if someone can do some clever data matching to get to the bottom of exactly what has happened here (ie - has there been a deluge of scamlets, less people paying the 9.99/mo or Amazon reducing the pot size - or a combination of either).

Do Amazon care about these 20 page scamlets? Or are they happy for scammers to knock themselves out in the KU microcosm, leaving higher priced books out of it. If, as Vaalingrade mentions, Amazon has put drastically less money in the pot, what could be their underlying logic? Jeff Bezos loses 3m bucks behind the couch, so if they really wanted borrows to be 2.00 I am sure they could have. So there must be a reason.

My only piece of game theory/economics-based advice to all would be to look up the "Hog Cycle" before deciding on their next move...


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Mike, 
Probably a combination of all of the above. 

Oh and someone mentioned Amazon's stock tanked one quarter.  The lowest it has been this year was on October 27 and it fell to $287 a share.  It started back up the next day.  

Now how many authors would think $1.33 a borrow is great.  It would darn sure beat nothing if one didn't have good sales.


----------



## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Mike,
> Probably a combination of all of the above.
> 
> Oh and someone mentioned Amazon's stock tanked one quarter. The lowest it has been this year was on October 27 and it fell to $287 a share. It started back up the next day.
> ...


I think many of us would be more than happy with $1.33, but only IF Amazon dropped the exclusive requirement. The fact that it only applies to indies and maybe small publishers handicaps us even more. We can't build up our reader base anywhere else if we want to be in KU, and we don't even have a set payout rate. The whole pot Amazon boasts about when we go to our dashboard (it's usually listed right at the top above the dashboard) is meaningless. It might as well say a "Million Gajillion Dollars!" for all that it applies to the actual payout since we never know how many borrows are factored in.

I haven't decided if I'm going to pull out. I was *just* gaining traction at other sites before KU, but much of that may have been due to a boxed set one of my books was in. Now that the boxed set is no longer available, I might take longer to regain the traction.


----------



## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I think many of us would be more than happy with $1.33, but only IF Amazon dropped the exclusive requirement. The fact that it only applies to indies and maybe small publishers handicaps us even more.


AGREED!


----------



## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

cinisajoy said:


> Now how many authors would think $1.33 a borrow is great. It would darn sure beat nothing if one didn't have good sales.


For some of us I think the decision comes down to (a) how the income from borrows compares to income from non-Amazon outlets, and (b) whether we think the borrows are cannibalizing sales or are in addition to sales. Answering (a) is pretty easy, but I'm finding (b) much harder. I don't have much data since my latest release is the only novel I've put in Select. Also each book is unique in its reception and reviews, and when I go back over my previous books, the early ones are $2.99, then I went to $3.99, and this last one is $4.99. So by my calculations (and math is not my strong point), if 1/3 of my borrows on this book would have been sales, I'm hurting myself financially. Yet sales for this one in the first 2 months range from 20% to 100% better than for any of the last 3. The new one is also giving older books a better lift than the last 3 did. (I'm only using the last 3 for comparison because there were some very different circumstances for the 2 romances before that, although I did look at the figures for those 2.)

So it certainly looks to me as if the vast majority of borrows are in addition to whatever sales the book would have had without KU and not carved out of those sales. If that's true, then the borrows are gravy. If it's not true, then KU is a big mistake. Maybe those who release a book every couple of months can test this to their satisfaction. At one book a year I can't, and I really don't think all books are equal.

Also making me go hmm is the fact I put my one short story in KU. It's getting more sales than it has since it was new (4+ years old), and it's getting borrows that bring in more than it ever earned from $.99 sales. It's ordinary romance, and the answer seems to be easy with short stuff. Wish I had more.

I've pulled one of the older romances from Smashwords, and I'm going to try it in KU and see what happens. I do know how many sales I could count on monthly for that book. That still won't answer the question for new books, but maybe it will give me an idea about older books whose sales have tapered to maybe 10% of what they did when they were new.



MaryMcDonald said:


> I think many of us would be more than happy with $1.33, but only IF Amazon dropped the exclusive requirement.


I agree, but as my mother used to say, "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2014)

Short stuff dies off just like before temporary bump


----------



## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Quiss said:


> Please, people, everyone remain calm.
> 
> Take a few months before you decide to leave KU. Sleep on it another 90 days. All is well.
> 
> Ahem, I'm in no way saying that because my sales elsewhere have gone up since so many folks have abandoned ship there and gone exclusive at Amazon.


LOL, Quiss, shhhh.

My income on the other platforms have tripled since KU started and I don't want to lose all of that to Rosalind!


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2014)

I would not be "more than happy" to be paid the KU rate for my $4.99 and up titles, but if Amazon dropped the exclusivity requirement, I'd certainly enroll my $2.99 titles, and probably the $3.99 ones as well.


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2014)

The thing is we don't know how low they'll let it sink in the short or long term. It may never be as high as 1.33 ever again.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I wouldn't put my stuff in KU long term no matter what. As a promotion like 'This month, you can read book X on KU, then sure. I would even let my permafrees sit there for good. But the rest? Hahahaha.... no way, Charlie. You drop your price as a promotion, not eternally.

And that's what you're doing for Amazon when you put something in KU: you are effectively giving Amazon a discount as part of a promotion.


----------



## 4eyesbooks (Jan 9, 2012)

I feel like instead of getting my Christmas bonus I got enrolled in a jelly of the month club.  What a kick in the teeth!


----------

