# New large screen e-ink Kindle - is there a possibility?



## Brownskins (Nov 18, 2011)

Is there no possibility of a new DX-sized Kindle?  Is this not a profitable niche?  (I'm wondering if the DX was a fail - in my opinion, it wasn't, but not sure profit-wise)

If Voyage did well at the $200-250 price range, I wonder if Amazon will consider developing a lower end large screen device similar to the Basic, and price it at the same $250-ish price point.  I sure would be interested...


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

All the pundits seem to agree that the DX failed because they couldn't sell enough of them.  I'd be surprised if there was another one.

You might want to consider reading with a tablet if you want a larger screen.  That's not quite the same but it's not so very bad either.

Barry


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I think chances are extremely slim, but possibly not zero.

It may be simply that they introduced the DX too early . . . . and it was quickly seen as an expensive and less versatile alternative to both apple and android tablets. As a reading device, especially for those with vision issues who like large print, it was great! And very good for people who, for whatever reason, just like a bigger page. But the screen cost was too high and most people just weren't willing to pay that -- it was $489 when it was released -- for a single purpose device. So they just didn't sell that many of them. 

I had one for a while . . . and liked it o.k. . . . but ultimately determined I wanted something more portable.  My brother is still using it, though -- he'd always preferred hardbacks anyway so he's cool with the size and weight. And my aunt had one for a while before she died that she really really liked -- it let her read (macular degeneration) again which she'd not been able to do for YEARS. Big quality of life improvement in her last few months.


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## Brownskins (Nov 18, 2011)

barryem said:


> You might want to consider reading with a tablet if you want a larger screen. That's not quite the same but it's not so very bad either.


Hola Barry, I will never read using a tablet, since I read for longer periods and the backlight hurts my eyes. As far as large e-ink readers, I still have one DXG and the older Irex which also has a large screen. I love both of these - they each have their own strong points. (For the 6-inch ones, I still prefer the K3. My dad inherited the Voyage.) Just wanted to ask if anyone else is wondering the same thing - if there is a possibility of a newer large screen e-ink device from Amazon.

I guess not, if its a losing venture you mentioned. What's strange though is that there really is a niche for this - since even pre-owned DX devices sell between $150-250 in Amazon or other markets. Amazon even offers a $160-ish (it fluctuates) gift card if we trade our devices in. So there must be some demand, and I am not alone in thinking out loud (although it's slim pickings, as Ann mentioned).


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Brownskins said:


> Hola Barry, I will never read using a tablet, since I read for longer periods and the backlight hurts my eyes. As far as large e-ink readers, I still have one DXG and the older Irex which also has a large screen. I love both of these - they each have their own strong points. (For the 6-inch ones, I still prefer the K3. My dad inherited the Voyage.) Just wanted to ask if anyone else is wondering the same thing - if there is a possibility of a newer large screen e-ink device from Amazon.
> 
> I guess not, if its a losing venture you mentioned. What's strange though is that there really is a niche for this - since even pre-owned DX devices sell between $150-250 in Amazon or other markets. Amazon even offers a $160-ish (it fluctuates) gift card if we trade our devices in. So there must be some demand, and I am not alone in thinking out loud (although it's slim pickings, as Ann mentioned).


I think it's third-parties, actually who buy back used kindles. . . . they just do it through Amazon. For a while you could buy used/open box models via Amazon warehouse deals but there aren't any kindles at ll right now, let alone the DX model.

If you get to the point where your only choice is a tablet, rest assured that the newer ones are much better in terms of the backlighting. The improved clarity/resolution of the screen make it much less of a problem especially if you adjust the brightness and color settings. E-Ink is definitely going to be better, even a fairly old version as is in the DX, but the newer tablets are better than what was available when the DX was first released.

Here's the thing: the smaller eInk devices were possible . . . so developers worked on improving them. Since the larger screens never took off, there's been limited resources put into making them any better. Which means that the specs don't look good compared to current smaller eInk screens or tablet screens. And there's been no improvement in production efficiency for the same reason, so retail cost is still higher than people are, mostly, willing to pay.

Also, remember Amazon has, in general, priced its products with an extremely slim profit margin -- they're usually at cost and sometimes slightly below. They are banking on people using the devices to buy other stuff from 'em. So there's a limit to ow low they could price such a device from a business standpoint, and small expectation of being able to sell enough to make it worth the production run.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

There are a lot of fans of the DX, obviously.  I see them in this and other ereader forums all the time.  I doubt they're coming back but there really are alternatives.  There are a couple of European ereader makers making 9.7" e-ink devices.  I can't think of their names at the moment since they don't really interest me but they're probably worth looking into.

Also I have an Asus Memopad HD, which has only a 1280x800 screen, better than the other cheap tablets but still not particularly high resolution.  However it's adequate.  What makes this of more interest though is that it has a reading mode.  That increases the contrast and reduces the backlight at the same time.  I'm not sure how it works and it still does have a light shining into my eyes.  I can't read on it as long as I can on e-ink but on other tablets I'm limited to about 15 minutes before my eyes start watering and on this in reading mode I can more than double that.

That's not a larger tablet but there are 10" tablets with reading modes as well.  I also have a Galaxy Tab S 10" with a reading mode.  I've never tried reading on it because large readers don't interest me but I suspect it would be idea.  It's resolution is extremely high and it's probably the best screen on a tablet today.

So there are other things you can look into.  They might be expensive but so was the DX.  They might not be perfect solutions but they might be good enough if you look into them.

I think the DX failed because it was too expensive and because by the time it hit the market it's feature set was already out of date.  More important I suspect it failed because it only appeals to a niche and not a very large one.  I doubt it'll be coming back.

Barry


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

barryem said:


> I think the DX failed because it was too expensive and because by the time it hit the market it's feature set was already out of date. More important I suspect it failed because it only appeals to a niche and not a very large one. I doubt it'll be coming back.
> 
> Barry


I don't think the feature set was out of date when it was released -- it was pretty high quality at the time -- but it was never was really updated so any still around are certainly out of date now! Older kindle screens look almost blurry to me now, compared to my Voyage, and I suspect the effect would be even more noticeable on a large screen.

It was definitely a niche market product -- though folks in that niche absolutely LOVED it! But the cost was such that it was not likely ever going to be anything else.

I did find this page: Large Display ereaders compared

It has links for most to Amazon; the DX is still available via third party sellers, as are some of the others listed there.

I also found this article from this past August: Large Screen eReader poll. The poll results actually surprised me a little, though I'm not sure it was a statistically valid sampling.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

The first DX came out about 6 months before they released the Kindle Keyboard with it's considerably improved screen quality.  I never actually saw a DX.  I'm just basing it on what I remember from reviews at the time.

Out of date doesn't mean the same thing as poor quality.  It was expensive and it was technology that was about to be improved on in just a few months.  I suspect that Amazon's hope was that it would sell well so they could reduce the price but it stayed expensive.  If you look at the list you linked to, the DX was one of the more expensive larger ereaders, at least if you ignore the Sony $1100 one, which isn't designed to be an ereader at all.

I have an old Kobo Mini with a 5" unlighted screen, which to me is the ideal reading size.  I think these failed because they came out just as readers began to be lighted.  I'd pay a premium price for a Kindle exactly the same size with a lighted screen.  I'd even trade my Voyage for it. 

I have neighbors who have vision problems and need large text and on a 6" screen they have to turn pages a lot.  A DX would be perfect for them if it had a lighted screen, and maybe even without one.  I also have vision problems but small text doesn't bother me much.  My problem is more about eyestrain over time.  I love the small size of the Kobo Mini and how easily it's held firmly in one hand.  But I realize there's not likely to ever be a Kindle to match.  I can still dream but I don't pretend it'll happen.

Barry


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## booklover888 (May 20, 2012)

barryem said:


> I have an old Kobo Mini with a 5" unlighted screen, which to me is the ideal reading size. I think these failed because they came out just as readers began to be lighted. I'd pay a premium price for a Kindle exactly the same size with a lighted screen. I'd even trade my Voyage for it.


So would I. I *loved *the size of the Mini. But I sold mine because I prefer the lighted e-ink readers. I would buy a lighted one in a heart beat, if it was made by Amazon or by Kobo.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

I got one of the last Fire Phones and I really love reading on that thing.  I'm limited in how long I can read on it but it's a perfect size for me.  I can hold it in one hand very comfortably and it's Kindle app is different than the one on any other device and is a huge improvement over the Android Kindle apps.  I've also tried the IOS Kindle app although I haven't used it much.  None are anything like the Fire Phone Kindle app.  The perfect ereader would be a Fire Phone with an e-ink screen.  Yeah, I know, I'm a dreamer. 

Barry


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## Tuttle (Jun 10, 2010)

barryem said:


> The first DX came out about 6 months before they released the Kindle Keyboard with it's considerably improved screen quality. I never actually saw a DX. I'm just basing it on what I remember from reviews at the time.


It came out more than 6 months before the K3. The DX was announced in May 2009 (I remember because that's the same month I got my K2 (non-international for the timing of when the DX was equivalent to). The Kindle Keyboard wasn't announced until July 2010. That's more than a year difference. In tech time, that's a long time. Also when the K3 came out they also made the DX-graphite.

You probably are thinking of when they made international versions of the K2 and the DX.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

barryem said:


> I got one of the last Fire Phones and I really love reading on that thing. I'm limited in how long I can read on it but it's a perfect size for me. I can hold it in one hand very comfortably and it's Kindle app is different than the one on any other device and is a huge improvement over the Android Kindle apps. I've also tried the IOS Kindle app although I haven't used it much. None are anything like the Fire Phone Kindle app. The perfect ereader would be a Fire Phone with an e-ink screen. Yeah, I know, I'm a dreamer.


 Well, you could order one of these:

http://www.cultofmac.com/390115/iphone-case-adds-e-ink-to-its-backside/

Of course, you'd have to buy an iPhone to mount it on! And I assume the ereader is limited to mobi files or some such...


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

As for the question from Brownskins, I agree with most of what has been said. I agree with most that has been said. In addition to seeing the DX as a commercial failure, I think Amazon would see a large eInk device as draining sales from their Fire tablets.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

Tuttle said:


> It came out more than 6 months before the K3. The DX was announced in May 2009 (I remember because that's the same month I got my K2 (non-international for the timing of when the DX was equivalent to). The Kindle Keyboard wasn't announced until July 2010. That's more than a year difference. In tech time, that's a long time. Also when the K3 came out they also made the DX-graphite.
> 
> You probably are thinking of when they made international versions of the K2 and the DX.


Well, you're right, sort of. I got the dates from Wikipedia but I used the date of the Graphite DX and compared it to the Kindle 3. I didn't realize that wasn't simply the DX. I've never seen a DX so I didn't know to look further.

Sorry about the error.

Barry


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

The Hooded Claw said:


> Well, you could order one of these:
> 
> http://www.cultofmac.com/390115/iphone-case-adds-e-ink-to-its-backside/
> 
> Of course, you'd have to buy an iPhone to mount it on! And I assume the ereader is limited to mobi files or some such...


I've seen reviews of that and as I understand it it even works with Android phones although it won't attach. It gets pretty poor reviews and they say it's fairly useless for reading, but that there are new apps coming that might help that.

The Yota sounds pretty close to what I'd like but it's way out of my price range and I'm pretty leery of buying anything but cheap items from overseas. I once bought a couple of early PCMCIA cards from Germany. One was fine but the other was defective. Even though the company tried pretty hard to be helpful the shipping and the taxes and fees were so high it wasn't worthwhile to return it. I haven't bought anything that wasn't sold here since then.

Barry


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## tsemple (Apr 27, 2009)

I have been doing all of my tablet/smartphone reading in Night Mode for quite awhile now, no matter what time of day it is. It cuts down quite a bit on the amount of light coming from the screen, and the text remains crisp and readable, and I don't have to fiddle with brightness much at all. I think it is also much better in dark rooms than my Paperwhite, which in those conditions, still emits too much light and does not have good contrast. I don't experience any eye fatigue with backlit devices but then I'm not often reading for hours at a time.

I have just discovered a 'Night reading' extension for Chrome browser. Looking forward to trying that out.

The Fire tablets have Sepia and Greenish backgrounds as well, but I've never found those pleasing.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

tsemple said:


> The Fire tablets have Sepia and Greenish backgrounds as well, but I've never found those pleasing.


New Fires might be different, and other reading apps might have more options, but when reading kindle books on Fire you have 3 options.

Regular (I guess) is black text on white background. Sepia is dark brown text on light brown background. The third option is white text on black background -- Night mode, maybe, though I'm not sure they call it that.

In all cases you can adjust brightness (which is a device wide adjustment and will remain when you go out of the reading app) and there are print size and typeface choices, as well as line spacing and margin width settings.

I almost never read extensively on my Fire, but when I do I prefer the Sepia setting. 'Regular' is generally too bright; I have to adjust the brightness of the device way down -- further than the 'auto' setting wants to take it -- to make it comfortable and remove the blue edge glow that would otherwise be visible. 'Night', for me, isn't crisp -- I have to make the print larger for the white letters to not appear fuzzy no matter what brightness level I use. For me, the Sepia setting is crisp and clear with no adjustments needed in the font or brightness. I can set it and forget it and don't have to fiddle when I switch tasks.


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

I suspect that the introduction of the tablet probably played a bigger role in the demise of the 9.7" KDX than anything else.  It was a case of bad timing on amazon's part or too little too late.


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## machoman (May 18, 2012)

I have the DX and the 6 inch touch - whenever i come across a book that i think is important or will be an immensely enjoyable read i will read it on the DX. The DX makes reading a much better experience compared to the smaller 6 incher. I'm surprised the DX format was considered a failure - sure the 6 incher is lighter, smaller and more portable but the DX reading experience is as close to reading the actual book or even better (since the font size can be adjusted).

I'm sure there are people who have not bought the 6 incher readers thinking it's too small (reading books paragraph by paragraph). What Amazon should come up with is an improved DX (maybe touchscreen)- without the keyboard. It'll be smaller and lighter. And it'll be amazing. I very very rarely use the keyboard function of the DX so it's a redundant function on my DX.


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## geezergas (Nov 8, 2014)

Love my DX, @ 700 books, replaced the battery once, I've had it 1/2 way around the world.  Boats, planes, beaches, I'm never without.  It would truly change my life to lose its use.  Had to delete all the books a couple weeks ago, it was full.
Love my DX.


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