# Apple Kindle app users beware.



## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-kindle-2011-2


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2011)

I smell a lawsuit coming


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## JimC1946 (Aug 6, 2009)

Apple should have never allowed the Kindle app if they were planning to do this. Yes, I smell a lawsuit too, and I hope Amazon wins.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

More info: Apple denies claim that Sony Reader, Kindle in danger on iOS App Store

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/01/apple_denies_claim_that_sony_reader_kindle_in_danger_on_ios_app_store.html


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

BTackitt said:


> More info: Apple denies claim that Sony Reader, Kindle in danger on iOS App Store
> 
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/01/apple_denies_claim_that_sony_reader_kindle_in_danger_on_ios_app_store.html


Which makes a lot more sense (and fits the facts) than the scare-mongering going on in various places.

Mike


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## teiresias (May 26, 2009)

BTackitt said:


> More info: Apple denies claim that Sony Reader, Kindle in danger on iOS App Store
> 
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/01/apple_denies_claim_that_sony_reader_kindle_in_danger_on_ios_app_store.html


This is still essentially the same thing. Apple is now saying that they REQUIRE an in-app purchase option, that then REQUIRES a 30% cut for Apple. It's still telling Amazon that the Kindle app is REQUIRED to present a sale option that forces Amazon to give Apple a cut of the revenue from the e-book sale even though Apple themselves aren't even going to host the files. It's ludicrous.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2011)

Remember their old ads?


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

teiresias said:


> This is still essentially the same thing. Apple is now saying that they REQUIRE an in-app purchase option, that then REQUIRES a 30% cut for Apple. It's still telling Amazon that the Kindle app is REQUIRED to present a sale option that forces Amazon to give Apple a cut of the revenue from the e-book sale even though Apple themselves aren't even going to host the files. It's ludicrous.


"Developers are still free to send customers to their own Web stores, but they must also offer them the option of purchasing content within their apps themselves, and they must route those sales through Apple which will then take its percentage."
I dunno, it's their platform, they can make the rules. (Or start to enforce the rules that have been in place.) Just don't choose to buy within the app. It's also possible they'll grandfather in the apps that are already there.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Gonna be some mad ipad users.


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

Apple used to rebel against the MAN.  Now they are bigger and more powerful than the MAN!  Sorry, I couldn't resist thowing that out there.

This is probably a direct result of the fact that the iBook Store isn't doing as well, or barely doing anything at all, as Apple and Steve Jobs had projected.  When you can't beat them fairly on a competitive playing field, then bury them.  I don't like bullies, and Apple has turned into one of the biggest corporate bullies in the electronics and computer industry.

However, these things tend to cycle, and like Microsoft, Apple's day will come and they will either learn to play nicer than they do now or be buried by someone else. 

So the question is:  Couldn't this be seen as predatory or as some sort of unfair business practice on the part of Apple?  I am envisioning something along the lines of the Microsoft IE embedded in Windows antitrust lawsuit from the 90's.

And on an off note.  Based on the fact that Steve Jobs has for a second time bowed out of Apple's day to day affairs for unspecified health reasons, I would suspect his days are probably numbered.  It's going to be interesting to see how the company's approach to how they do business changes after he's gone.

Gene


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## GinnyB (Dec 19, 2009)

Does Amazon Kindle need Apple?


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## dmspen (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't like this and I left feedback for Apple.
The article from AppleInsider said that Apple wants a cut because it's software (iOs/itunes) is used to host the app, etc, so they should get a persentage of the purchase price.
This is a hugely flawed philosophy. Based on that, Apple should get a cut from every piece of software put on a Mac. We've already paid for the right to use their software when we purchased the phone/ipad/itouch. 

30% of every purchase? That's ridiculous. It would make more sense to charge a 1 time fee, like $.99 for the app itself. 

If Apple keeps this up, I'm sure that a whole flock of people will drop their iPhones for other platforms. The Kindle app is available on Android and Win7 phones. My contract is up this summer. Maybe it's time to see what the other guys have...


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2011)

Does anyone actually use the iPad as a dedicated ebook reader? I would think its a bad experience. I'd rather buy a hardcopy. Us kids bought our mother an iPad last year  and I haven't even bothered to test out the kindle app.


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

I purchased an iPod Classic a couple months ago, and I'm glad I did.  I just couldn't justify the extra $150 when my big interest is music and the occasional video.  It was interesting to listen to all the sales people tell me "But you can download apps on the iPod touch and you can't on the iPod Classic."  And I'd tell them I don't care about the apps, I just want my music, they would at me like I was crazy.

I was a big Apple II fan from way back, and I like the Macintosh line of computers and my click wheel iPod Classic, which won't be around when I buy a third iPod years from now, but the Apple iOS is highly over rated by Apple and the media, and for that matter, there is nothing special about the hardware either.

If I were going to go with a smartphone like the iPhone, I would go with the Samsung Epic 4G from Sprint, it has a great display and a great keyboard.  Or better yet, I'll go with the Overdrive 3G/4G modem to hotspot from Sprint and use a real computer for the web, such as my Toshiba NB205-N312/BL netbook.  At least that way, you are dealing with a web and email experience that doesn't cause eye strain and carpo tunnel syndrome.

"Hall the Apple iOS iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch.  What is your bidding my master?"  That's how Apple seems to think the rest of us should see , act, and be towards it.  I didn't stay with the National Federation of the Blind for the same reason, I don't believe cults should be allowed to thrive or exist.

Gene


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

McGee said:


> Does anyone actually use the iPad as a dedicated ebook reader? I would think its a bad experience. I'd rather buy a hardcopy. Us kids bought our mother an iPad last year and I haven't even bothered to test out the kindle app.


As a matter of fact, yes, I do use the iPad as a dedicated book reader and like it a good deal. So does my husband, who tried a physical Kindle and hated it. A friend who'd had a Nook for the last year got an iPad for Christmas and hasn't touched his Nook since. The Kindle app is terrific. And as a PDF reader, the iPad blows the Kindle PDF experience completely out of the water. It's also lovely to be able to read at night in a darkened room on an evenly lit screen, rather than dealing with a book light and their uneven light falloff.

I split my time between reading on the iPad (70%) and iPhone primarily (20%) with my K2 (10%) now being mostly a tertiary device used if my eyes get too tired with the backlit screen--usually after 8-10 hours of near constant use. (I have a chronic illness that affects my eyes; my husband doesn't have any issues with the backlit screen at all.) I had to read a hardcover for a time a couple of weeks ago and hated every minute of it; the minute the Kindle version was available, I had it on all three devices and ran through the last 2/3 of the book much more comfortably. In no way do I find a hard copy better than using iPad as a reader.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Writerband tech columnist Jerry Pournelle was a big fan of the Kindle, but iPad has replaced it as his favorite way to read.


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## musclehead (Dec 29, 2010)

VictoriaP said:


> As a matter of fact, yes, I do use the iPad as a dedicated book reader and like it a good deal. So does my husband, who tried a physical Kindle and hated it. A friend who'd had a Nook for the last year got an iPad for Christmas and hasn't touched his Nook since. The Kindle app is terrific. And as a PDF reader, the iPad blows the Kindle PDF experience completely out of the water. It's also lovely to be able to read at night in a darkened room on an evenly lit screen, rather than dealing with a book light and their uneven light falloff.
> 
> I split my time between reading on the iPad (70%) and iPhone primarily (20%) with my K2 (10%) now being mostly a tertiary device used if my eyes get too tired with the backlit screen--usually after 8-10 hours of near constant use. (I have a chronic illness that affects my eyes; my husband doesn't have any issues with the backlit screen at all.) I had to read a hardcover for a time a couple of weeks ago and hated every minute of it; the minute the Kindle version was available, I had it on all three devices and ran through the last 2/3 of the book much more comfortably. In no way do I find a hard copy better than using iPad as a reader.


Does Apple have a book reader app? If Sony and Amazon can't sell their apps anymore, what app do you use to read a book on the iPad?


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

musclehead said:


> Does Apple have a book reader app? If Sony and Amazon can't sell their apps anymore, what app do you use to read a book on the iPad?


It's called 



.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

musclehead said:


> Does Apple have a book reader app? If Sony and Amazon can't sell their apps anymore, what app do you use to read a book on the iPad?


Easy--I wouldn't, save for PDFs, which I use the GoodReader app for. If Apple forces this issue and Amazon doesn't cave on it, I'll go back to the Kindle, even though I consider it a poorer fit for me. I hate the iBooks app, personally, and I sure as heck won't purchase books through directly through Apple's iBookstore, as they have very little content I want when I've looked. Eventually, I'd probably buy an Android based tablet, assuming they don't somehow try to get away with the same thing.

Bluefire Reader and Stanza are also possibilities for reading books without DRM.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

musclehead said:


> Does Apple have a book reader app? If Sony and Amazon can't sell their apps anymore, what app do you use to read a book on the iPad?





VictoriaP said:


> Easy--I wouldn't, save for PDFs, which I use the GoodReader app for. If Apple forces this issue and Amazon doesn't cave on it, I'll go back to the Kindle, even though I consider it a poorer fit for me. I hate the iBooks app, personally, and I sure as heck won't purchase books through directly through Apple's iBookstore, as they have very little content I want when I've looked. Eventually, I'd probably buy an Android based tablet, assuming they don't somehow try to get away with the same thing.
> 
> Bluefire Reader and Stanza are also possibilities for reading books without DRM.


Actually you can use Bluefire Reader for DRMed Sony & Kobo books. Even Barnes & Noble, I just tried it and it worked.


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## planet_janet (Feb 23, 2010)

McGee said:


> Does anyone actually use the iPad as a dedicated ebook reader? I would think its a bad experience. I'd rather buy a hardcopy. Us kids bought our mother an iPad last year and I haven't even bothered to test out the kindle app.


I don't use my iPad as a dedicated ebook reader. Generally the only time I read on my iPad is if I'm on vacation and have chosen to take my iPad with me instead of my K2i (which is a rare occurrence--I usually take both devices). The iBooks app gets virtually zero use by me and minimal use by my kids (the iBookstore's content, IMO, is seriously pathetic). I do like the Kindle app, but for me, the iPad is just too heavy and awkward for reading for any extended period of time.

It will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out. Seriously, how greedy can Apple get?


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## redshift1 (Jun 20, 2009)

Last time I checked at Mac Rumors and Apple Insider there are over 800 posts with no consensus on what is going on.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_tightening_ios_in-app_purchase_rules/

Looks like Apple finalized the rules...Must have an option to buy through Apple.

Amazon should just pass along the cost to those buying through apple  So the rest of us do not get impacted.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

McGee said:


> http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_tightening_ios_in-app_purchase_rules/
> 
> Looks like Apple finalized the rules...Must have an option to buy through Apple.
> 
> *Amazon should just pass along the cost to those buying through apple  So the rest of us do not get impacted. *


Which is great in theory. In practice, Apple's contracts almost assuredly include a clause that means pricing within an app for in app purchases must meet or beat the vendor's pricing for purchases outside of the app. Unlike some companies I've known, Apple isn't run by accounting idiots--money is something they do very very well. They're extremely savvy on this sort of stuff.

Barnes and Noble almost certainly can't afford a 30% hit on their profits. Perhaps Amazon could, they've taken pretty substantial losses on ebooks before for various reasons. It'll be interesting to see how they individually approach this.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

So, just so I'm getting this right... One "buys" an Apple Tablet but Apple gets to tell you what and what not programs you can load on the device?


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2011)

Forster said:


> So, just so I'm getting this right... One "buys" an Apple Tablet but Apple gets to tell you what and what not programs you can load on the device?


I think it was also illegal to load some programs that they didn't approve of, until a short while ago.

Couldn't Amazon could just disable in App purchases? Make them buy from Safari or web. They could only browse in the Kindle app and add to cart. Kindle kart would be new though.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Forster said:


> So, just so I'm getting this right... One "buys" an Apple Tablet but Apple gets to tell you what and what not programs you can load on the device?


That's pretty much how it has always been with iphone/touch/ipad, even before the "new"policy. Only way to get around it is to side load or jailbreak your device, which voids the warranty. I'm not hard core anti Apple, since I own over a thousand bucks worth of their recent hardware, but I do find this pretty ironic from the company famous for the 1984 ad about big brother. It does have a few genuine consumer advantages, such as enforcing a common lookand set of usage conventions, as well as the obvious great advantages to Apple!

Sent from my Sprint EVO using Tapatalk


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

McGee said:


> I think it was also illegal to load some programs that they didn't approve of, until a short while ago.
> 
> Couldn't Amazon could just disable in App purchases? Make them buy from Safari or web. They could only browse in the Kindle app and add to cart. Kindle kart would be new though.


That's what they do now - if you're using the Kindle app and go to the Kindle store, you leave the Kindle app and go to Safari. Same with B&N & Kobo apps. What Apple is saying now is that they have to have the OPTION to buy within the app, not that they have to only allow buying within the app. 
The only time I buy books via my iPhone is when I'm out somewhere and see a freebie listed on Facebook, if I want to be sure I get that (because sometimes they don't last long) I do it on my phone. Frankly I think the sellers should say fine, we'll do that - but if people buy within the app we'll pass Apple's 30% cut on to those customers - not make everyone pay it. Don't know if that's possible, but I know I'd never take the option to buy via the app. 
What I'd really love to hear is some comments from Amazon, B&N, Kobo, etc about this....


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## Casse (Oct 16, 2009)

Kindle receives very little use now that I have an iPad. It's so nice to read, answer an email, and be right back to my book very quickly..... 

Kindle is only used for extended travel (battery), when my eyes are tired, or have a headache.

I don't mind the "option" as long as it's not required and I can read on my iPad without higher prices.


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

The in app purchase has to go through I-store right?  What if the book isn't available in the I-store?  Would Amazon be able to send buyers outside to their store?


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

mom2karen said:


> The in app purchase has to go through I-store right? What if the book isn't available in the I-store? Would Amazon be able to send buyers outside to their store?


Yes - they're supposed to include the option to buy either within the app (which goes through iTunes, but it's still a purchase from Amazon's Kindlestore, not the iBooks store) *or* to be sent outside the app to Safari and the Kindle (or B&N, or Borders, or whatever) store, which is how it works now.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I have had my iPad since launch and not once have I purchased an Amazon book from it.  I just use it to access my achieves that were purchased from my computer and Kindle.

I know a lot of people hate the proprietary nature of Apples devices, but I prefer it.  I don't have to worry about content and contamination and whatnot.  And I enjoy the same quality from Amazon with their own version of safe guards and limitations.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

My initial reaction to this was to get angry (and that's still how I feel, though not as strongly as I initially did).  But I must admit the effect on me is minimal, I've only used my iPad as an ebook reader once (while traveling without my Kindle, and when I didn't want to run down my cell phone's battery).  The iPad is too big and heavy to make a good ereader for me, and the iPod Touch has a screen that is too small, so Apple has just missed the boat for me as a producer of ereaders.  So even if the Kindle app was banished from iPad, I wouldn't be affected to speak of.  But it sure ticks me off anyway!

The proprietariness of Apple isn't good from a price competition standpoint, but it does have some good points like developers only having to deal with a few hardware configurations, and Apple ensuring that the operation of different apps is reasonably consistent.  As I explained to an anti-Apple friend when I bought my iPad, "There are some advantages to living in a semi-benevolent dictatorship!"    I do wish Apple would make an iPod Touch with a bigger screen, though!  I'd love a Touch with a 4.5 inch or so screen!  3.5 inches is smaller than I really like.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

As I went to check out the Audible.com sale on my iPad, it occurred to me that this will affect Audible books as well.  Since I bought a Shuffle specifically to use for Audible books, this affects me more.  How Audible credits will fit into the 30% tariff will be interesting for them to work out!


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

I seems like it will also affect any video paid for that is accessed from the iPad.  I only know of two, Hulu and Netflix, but there might be others


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

So you buy from Amazon store front through Apple app store which gives Apple the full 30% profit margin and eliminates Apple needing to get more books into it's i-store.  Sneaky.  I might have considered it fair if Apple required books that they carry in the i-store to be offered as an in store purchase, but tapping all of Amazon's books is too much.  

Will it meet the requirements if Amazon takes away all in app purchases?  You would have to shop on-line and have them sent to your e-devise, but it might be the only way to keep the Kindle app available.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

mom2karen said:


> So you buy from Amazon store front through Apple app store which gives Apple the full 30% profit margin and eliminates Apple needing to get more books into it's i-store. Sneaky. I might have considered it fair if Apple required books that they carry in the i-store to be offered as an in store purchase, but tapping all of Amazon's books is too much.
> 
> Will it meet the requirements if Amazon takes away all in app purchases? You would have to shop on-line and have them sent to your e-devise, but it might be the only way to keep the Kindle app available.


Amazon doesn't have in-app purchases now. Now you're taken from the app to Safari when you click on the "Kindle Store" icon in the app. That's Apple's problem - they want Amazon to add the option of buying within the app (which would then send the purchase through iTunes).
I'd hate to lose all ability to buy through the app - because I've picked up a fair number of freebies that way when I was out & about. But my serious book shopping is always done on the computer. What I'm hoping is that that Amazon's app developers will add the option of buying within the app, with the disclaimer on it that there'll be a "surcharge" for the "convenience" of buying within the app (to cover Apple's 30% cut). I sure don't want higher charges across the board for all books - and knowing Amazon's past history I doubt they do either.


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