# Any Pipers Out There?



## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I've been wanting to learn an instrument my entire life.  I bought a violin and can't even make it make noise, I got a drum and discovered I have no rhythm, I got a water harp just because it looked neat... but it needs to be plucked or bowed and I know from previous experience with a guitar that I can't pluck.  So having had previous experience with a recorder so many years ago in grade school and my stepfather having a chanter lying around... I figured why not try it?  When I have more money I'll get a better chanter because I don't think this is the best one in the world, but I was raring to go and this one was available.  I've also heard you really don't need any innate musical talent to play well, which sounds good to me.  I have a Green Book in the mail and don't expect to be able to get much in terms of lessons besides that and Youtube.  I figure once I master the cheaper Green Book I can try John Cairns' more expensive method.  Anywho, any tips or advice out there?  It's probably a long shot but you never know.


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## cheerio (May 16, 2009)

going to be hard to find someone who plays


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeah I figured as much.  Sad really because when I did my whole RenFaire thing there were two or three people who played the bagpipes that I could have probably glommed onto.  Youtube has already been pretty invaluable for finger placement and scales and the like, so I figure I'll be referencing that and those other two methods and see how far I can get without a tutor.  People have said that the Cairns method makes it doable without a teacher, but it's a lot harder without one.  I did always say I liked being different, so it just goes to stand that I'd pick an instrument not many people play.


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## B-Kay 1325 (Dec 29, 2008)

When I went to the RenFaire this last Sunday there was a man there who was carving these little flutes from clay, they looked kind of like little birds.  I just wasn't brave enough to spend the money to get one and learn how to play, I really wish I had.  Good luck with your endeavor.

I think there are a couple of people on the boards that play the flute and/or recorder, maybe they will jump in here with some helpful tips.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

B-Kay 1325 said:


> When I went to the RenFaire this last Sunday there was a man there who was carving these little flutes from clay, they looked kind of like little birds. I just wasn't brave enough to spend the money to get one and learn how to play, I really wish I had. Good luck with your endeavor.
> 
> I think there are a couple of people on the boards that play the flute and/or recorder, maybe they will jump in here with some helpful tips.


I was thinking the Anne in Arlington played the recorder, but I might be wrong.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

There are some people on the boards who play recorder.

I have a soprano recorder but have only noodled around on it.  I also have a collection of Native American flutes, which are easiest to play if they are made well.  I just improvise on them.  I'm a classical flutist (silver Boehm flute).

You could take lessons.  You want to have someone hear you so they can tell you things that you wouldn't hear yourself.  They can help you correct intonation, if necessary.  There are really small, cheap tuners you can buy for about $20.  I always have mine on when I practice flute.

Listen to good recorder players.  I particularly like Michala Petri and Flanders Recorder Quartet, but there are many others.  You could also listen to early music groups.  But you probably already know this.

There are probably resources on the National Recorder Society's website.

Enjoy!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

It seems like the chanter is similar to the recorder in that you blow into it and there are finger holes, but the way you hold your fingers and the fingering of the notes is pretty radically different from what I've seen.  I only base it on the recorder from my very short exposure to them as a child and from reading different places it sounds like even knowing how to play one doesn't mean you can play the chanter correctly.  I know a big part of that is the Grace Notes.  Since once you go onto full bagpipes the flow of air is constant you have to flutter notes between other notes to create the right tones... or something.  People are saying a virtuoso recorder player will still have to start from the beginning with bagpipes, so I could be mistaken in the similarities after all!  

And I've seen those clay bird whistle thingums.  I was pretty tempted on one of those when I saw them as well.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Good for you:  trying something new.  I admire your ambition.
I'm going to take a very special exclusive quilting class.  Taught by a soon to be world renowned quilting professor.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Scheherazade said:


> And I've seen those clay bird whistle thingums. I was pretty tempted on one of those when I saw them as well.


Is that the same as the ocarina? I like your term for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocarina


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

They sounded like they could have been ocarinas from what B-Kay was saying.  I am pretty sure the ones I saw were.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

mlewis78 said:


> You could take lessons. You want to have someone hear you so they can tell you things that you wouldn't hear yourself. They can help you correct intonation, if necessary. There are really small, cheap tuners you can buy for about $20. I always have mine on when I practice flute.
> 
> Enjoy!


Thanks! I think the tuners are difficult to use for bagpipes from what I've read, but I will definitely look into them though I must admit I don't really understand what they are for >< I would like to do lessons or at least have a day with a tutor every now and then, but it's really difficult to find bagpipe players and I just don't have the money for it right now. I was really pushing it just to get the Green Book  It's definitely something I'll look into more as I get better at it. I am so bad about getting excited about things and not following through that I want to be sure I'm going to stick this one out. I've been practicing an hour or two a day though and taking it slow and that's pretty out of my modus operandi for such things, so I have hope that I will persevere! I'm running to check the Zune store now for bagpipe music, I didn't even consider that listening to it might help. Thanks


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I think I misunderstood and thought you wanted to play your recorder more.  Are you talking bagpipes?  Sorry if I got it wrong.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

mlewis78 said:


> I think I misunderstood and thought you wanted to play your recorder more. Are you talking bagpipes? Sorry if I got it wrong.


Yup, it's the bagpipes. Easy to misunderstand since I was vague and mentioned recorders too, no worries! You start learning the bagpipes by playing a chanter which you also keep using to practice so your neighbors don't riot and burn down your house. I made, what I've come to find was, a misguided reference to the chanter being similar to a recorder. They seem really similar at first glance, but the hole placement and such does seem pretty different now that I look. A lot of your advice still carries over and I didn't even think to listen to CDs so it was definitely helpful


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Scheherazade said:


> my stepfather having a chanter lying around... I figured why not try it? [....] *I've also heard you really don't need any innate musical talent to play well*


That may be just a catty remark made by people who don't like the sound of bagpipes. 

I know a few people from the Fair crowd who play the pipes, but am not sure if any are in your area, and am not _actively_ in touch with any of them -- more like the once-a-year "I'm in town for two days, let's have a cup of coffee and catch up" type of acquaintanceship. You're in the Charlottesville area, or am I misremembering that? I'll see whether I can find someone around there to at least talk to and maybe help you find further resources...


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks!  That'd be appreciated   Trying to see if I still have any of my connections as well, but the main person I'd call has changed his number apparently.  I'm actually already looking to buy another chanter since this one is apparently not the best to learn with, but I found a decent one on Craig's List.  They don't know a player either though.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Not knowing your location, I took what Susan said and ran with it. A google search on "charlottesville scottish band" gave me the following as the first hit:

http://www.gigmasters.com/Search/Bagpipes-Charlottesville-VA.html

Several of these guys list various Scottish Pipe marching band affiliations, and I think the names of those would be my next web search. Finding a band in your local area should provide you with the connections you need to find a teacher.

Obviously, if you're elsewhere, run the same search with your location. 

Edit: You might also want to check a number of wedding vendor websites for your area. A lot of people hire pipers for their ceremony--and again, those pipers may have contacts listed that would be helpful.


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## gdae23 (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm involved with playing Irish music in NYC, and I also know people who play Scottish music here. I have one friend who plays the Scottish pipes and might be a good resource for information. I can ask her for advice if you like. I know she goes to a school in Scotland each summer to study for a week. That's a bit far for you, but there are lots of music schools around in the U.S. of that sort, where you can go for an immersion week or even a weekend. If you can't find a teacher locally, you might be able to supplement your self-tutoring with an occasional immersion class. It's a nice way to meet other pipers as well.

The best idea mentioned so far seemed to be to contact people who play pipes in a marching band in your area. I know in NY a lot of fire stations have members who play the pipes for ceremonies / parades, etc. You may have the same situation near you, so that may be a place to ask as well.

You may also want to post something in the forum section on Mudcat.org, http://www.mudcat.org/threads.cfm which is a traditional music site. People there might be able to advise you on teachers or other resources that are local to you, and websites that would be helpful.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks, those are all really good ideas as well.  I could probably contact funeral parlors too.  I know we had a piper for my grandfather when he passed.  I hadn't even thought of going in that direction and the immersion thing sounds like it would be a good idea as well (when money is more readily available anyway  ).  I wish a yearly trip to Scotland was an option.  I'd do that whether I was learning them or not.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Well I searched and found an outfit called Tidewater Pipes and Drums that is supposed to do free lessons for an hour a week right near where I go to school. I also discovered that my practice chanter is a cheap thing they sell to folks who don't know any better and that it's cracked in two places. But then I checked Craig's List and someone had a polypenco Gibson for sale for about $50 that came with the Green Book I already bought and an extra reed which means the chanter was like $5. I figured someone having a chanter for sale nearby had to be a sign that I am meant to play!

I am still not sure if I want to return the Green Book I already bought. I still haven't even opened the envelope it came in and I got it from Amazon but it's through one of those smaller companies that sell through Amazon and not Amazon themselves. I never feel right returning stuff when it's not the seller's fault, especially with smaller businesses. I figure maybe having a backup wouldn't be a bad idea though money is kind of tight right now.

I figured I'd start a blog to try and share my learning bagpipes from scratch experience. It'll also be a good way to keep myself motivated and kind of vent when things get frustrating and who knows, another piper may find it and mentor me! If anyone's interested it's at http://primordialmuse.wordpress.com/ ... I have no idea what I'll really write, but I'll try to anyway. Might be a good way to train myself to actually write on a novel at some point too.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, you can always sell the Green Book yourself.  It's easy to set up a store through Amazon.

I'm going to check out your blog!

Betsy


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I've always been so iffy about selling things online, I may just need to jump in feet first and try it.  I also have this nearly 4 foot tall Master Chief statue I got my hands on while managing a music store a while back.  Having never even played Halo or even seen it played I had no real interest in it except it was neat and one of my few perks for managing the store.  I've been wanting to sell it on ebay for a while now but just don't know when would be best to post it or even how the whole thing works.  Maybe I'll start small with the book and see how it goes.  And I hope you enjoy the blog!  I tend to drone on a bit... and make bad puns like that one.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

But it's a_ great_ name!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Hehe thanks!  I've always used Ancient Muse but someone had it already... Primordial Muse is almost more fun just for the wordplay alone.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Definitely more fun.  You can't say it without smiling.


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## OwlEyez (Dec 30, 2009)

Hello - I'm a piper (out of practice for years).  Lessons are the best way to go.  I was on the chanter only for the first year, learning notes & music.  And I will warn you, when I first got my pipes it took a week of practice to get more than a squeek out of them.  I just had no lung power.

I was able to hook up with a local band and found a teacher.  They had weekly group lessons as well.  Met some awesome people, had a ton of fun with it.  

Bagpipes only play 8 notes, so even people with no musical background can pick up the rhythms and learn the timing & notes pretty quickly.  Pipes are continuously playing so there is no rests, just notes.  Remember to wear earplugs when you move over to the full pipes.  

Good luck & enjoy!
Cheri


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Good luck with the piping. Not exactly my cup of tea (maybe you need several Scotches instead of tea to enjoy the pipes?), but in small doses in the right setting I can enjoy it.  Or, with the Irish pipes:



My foray into guitar playing is advancing. I've developed some calluses on my left hand fingers now, and I've gotten to the point where I can play the chords to Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage". (Why that song? It was the first one I stumbled upon on the 'net that (a) I liked and (b) consisted mostly of chords I knew already and weren't too difficult for my stubby fingers.)


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks for the advice OwlEyez, and yes the relatively simple notes and timing were one of the draws.  I definitely need to find some breathing techniques to practice on though.  I figured at least a year on a chanter myself and don't expect to pick up anything and be able to make any noise with it.  I learned my lesson with the violin that I still can only make sound like someone running silk across silk no matter how much I rosined the bow.  I am hopeful on these lessons but still haven't heard anything back.  I'll have to try one of the other emails if Wednesday passes and I still don't hear anything... I could just show up at the church but I'm a bit shy to do stuff like that.

And yep, I tried the guitar at some point too NogDog, but I either really suck at the whole string fingering thing or I just wasn't passionate enough to really try to learn.  I think it's a mix of both.  All the strings and different places to hold them down and the different pressure and then knowing which bits to strum... it all hurt my head pretty quickly.  I have a guitar on my phone now and that's about as far as I've gotten with that.

I figure at the very least I'll have fun and maybe someone somewhere sometime will be able to use my blog for inspiration... assuming my journey doesn't end with throwing my pipes into a loch.  I've gotten the blessing of most everyone who will have to put up with my playing (though I haven't asked the neighbors) so I figure I at least got over that hurdle


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

OwlEyez said:


> Bagpipes only play 8 notes, so even people with no musical background can pick up the rhythms and learn the timing & notes pretty quickly.


Hey! Maybe there's hope for me yet... I wonder if there are any other instruments like that...


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## OwlEyez (Dec 30, 2009)

Ooops, make that 10 notes, not eight.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Hey! Maybe there's hope for me yet... I wonder if there are any other instruments like that...


I remember the kazoo being pretty easy


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Scheherazade said:


> I remember the kazoo being pretty easy


I can just see my cats marching with little protest signs...


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Scheherazade, I just read your latest blog post.  Apparently our horse-thieving ancestors beat each other up regularly along the Border.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm enjoying this thread and bookmarked your blog, Sheherezade.  (I know nothing about playing bagpipes.)  One of my friends in LA has a chanter, but I haven't seen her work with it.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

@mlewis: one thing I know is that I suck at the flute. I took a mini course on it in college (I was a music ed. major) and couldn't get more than one octave out of the darned thing. As the course was about over and I was talking with the teacher, she said not to worry: most trumpet players have trouble with the flute. We instinctively tighten up our mouth muscles as we increase in pitch, and that plays havoc with the flute embouchure. I did, however, kick butt on oboe, as it fights back a lot like the trumpet does.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Yes, the flute has no resistance.  I took one semester of oboe lessons, but I was awful and didn't practice.  I must have been doing something wrong, but all that tightening of the mouth on the reed gave me a headache.  The teacher was nice.  He was a bassoonist.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Scheherazade, I just read your latest blog post. Apparently our horse-thieving ancestors beat each other up regularly along the Border.


Maybe I need to move to Maryland and we can stage reenactments. I remember my grandfather also saying we had ties to the Chicago mafia with our family there pretty big in the illegal slot machine business. I must be doing something wrong in going to school to try to find honest work.

And on the flute... I thought about trying the panpipes/syrinx, whatever you want to call them, fleetingly but I just knew there was no way I'd be able to do the whole blowing thing right. It'd end up alongside my silent violin, I'm lucky to get noise off a Coke bottle.

And thanks for supporting the blog, I know I said it was mostly just to keep myself motivated but it's always nice to know you're interesting and entertaining enough for people to actually read it ><


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Scheherazade said:


> I remember my grandfather also saying we had ties to the Chicago mafia with our family there pretty big in the illegal slot machine business.


What fun! We have a lone Sicilian ancestor in the mix (why anyone would move from Sicily to the north of England is beyond me ) and my cousins and I have a running joke about our mafia connection... though as far as anyone knows, he was just a regular guy with no shady ties anywhere.

I like the blog... though, since I don't normally follow any, I read it backwards the first time, until I realized that they started at the bottom and that the newest one was at the top. Felt like an idiot for not figuring it out sooner.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Don't worry, I just did that with the bagpipe boards I just read too  I was really confused as to why people were answering questions without seeing where the person had asked them for about five posts until I figured it out.  I finally found a way to make it so the older posts showed first but I don't think blogs have that option.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Major, major suggestion - sign up and check out the forums at http://www.chiffandfipple.com/ - you'll get as much help as you want. Great people and a lot of fun too.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I'll check it out.  I also joined a forum at bobdunsire.com and actually already have someone who knows the guy that I wrote to about the free lessons and haven't heard from yet, so he's going to talk to him tomorrow about it and see what's going on.  Of course I don't feel right going in for lessons with a horrible reed and my hemp sealed with pomegranate lip balm, but maybe they'll see how desperate I am and take pity


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thought I'd update.  I heard back and have free lessons every Wednesday night about 20 minutes away from where I go to school.  This is apparently pretty good since I've seen folks say things like "If you have someone who can give you lessons that lives 4 hours away, do it."  I got my new hemp and seal but I still have horrid reeds.  I can actually almost play the first measure of "Scots Wha Hae" though!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Have you found anywhere that you can get a set of mouse pipes and a gonnagle to give you lessons?


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

No Gonnagles in the area unfortunately... though I'll have to ask the PM if he's any relation ;P And no, no mouse pipes for sale... but I found this and it's nearly as good!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Heh...it's amazing what you can find on the web.


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## OwlEyez (Dec 30, 2009)

Sounds like you are off to a great start!


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

That mouse is too cute....


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Link to New York Tartan Week:

http://www.tartanweek.com/pages/paradenews.php

and article in Friday's NY Times about the parade route being shortened:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/10/nyregion/10tartan.html?scp=1&sq=parade&st=cse

Didn't know anything about this parade until I went out for break on 6th Ave. where people were waiting for the Tartan Day Parade to start. I saw the beginning of it with a few different bagpipe bands.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

If you use twitter, Pipefest:

http://twitter.com/Pipefest


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Found this today and I immediately thought of this thread.

http://www.tradlessons.com/Bagpipes.html

Apple's right, there really is "an app for that".  Unfortunately, it's only compatible with the iPad, but what a concept!

Hope your lessons are going well!


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> Found this today and I immediately thought of this thread.
> 
> http://www.tradlessons.com/Bagpipes.html
> 
> ...


Gotta admit, can't see doing that on a Kindle.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeesh, talk about resurrecting an old thread  It'd be really odd playing on a screen, but I would grab that in a second.

Though I will admit I have thought pretty hard about buying something almost similar... that is until school screwed me over and took back my grant for Summer classes so it's $800 out of pocket now. They're Fagerstrom TechnoPipes. I figured it'd be nice to be able to practice after my cheeks hurt too much or when I just didn't want to disturb anyone. They're pretty darn expensive at $375 though... that's a good chunk of money I could use on a really fancy chanter or a even quite a bit to put toward actual pipes. Don't you know that the kind I want -start- at $3500? I think I need to set my sights lower on that one. The high end on that set is $10,500 and there's a 16 month waiting period... but they're gorgeous.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, my husband bought it.  The dog turned his ears inside out and ran at the first note.    Now I REALLY need to set up that soundproofed music room I've been thinking about!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Hehe, does he play or is he just playing around with it?


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