# What if you didn't have to write more than the PLOT to make sales?



## Arrington Flynn (May 17, 2014)

I'm sure some of you are aware that there is a market for bundles of plots, say 10-15, pre-written story structures. They are marketed to those who hope to make a fast buck writing stories. They come with the proviso to  'not use as it' and they sell like coffee at a bake sale.

For me, plots are the easiest part of writing, ideas never stop coming. Maybe I should get into the pre-selling plot business. (Actually, I don't think so, those ideas are mine - all mine)

Thoughts?


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I never heard of this.  How weird!  

I think of lots of story ideas but don't tend to write whole outlines and plots out.  I generally end up working a lot of that out as I write.  Can't believe someone would PAY for ideas/plots!


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

So that's the underwater earthquake that leads to tsunami. To my mind thinking up a plot is the easy part, but I guess that is why some people sell them in bundles.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Hmm... I have idea all the time I don't really want to write because they aren't in my wheelhouse. How do I turn them into money.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

It works for James Patterson, so why not?


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## Cheyanne (Jan 9, 2013)

That's not really writing. Or in the realm of writing. It's like being an architect. It wouldn't interest me because I like the actual writing of writing.


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## [email protected] (Apr 8, 2012)

Where would someone buy or sell something like this? I've never heard of it before.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

People have a hard time coming up with plots! Jeez, sometimes I wish I had that problem! A new story pops in my head everyday, sometimes twice a day. I'd also like to know where you could buy plots. Just out of curiosity.


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## Arrington Flynn (May 17, 2014)

Interesting reaction from everyone. We're all pretty much in agreement, I see. Well, the truth is, there are people who buy these pre-packaged plots, and also pre-written stories - designed to be replaced with the buyers name as author. Kind of like a pre-made book cover, but instead it's a pre-made ghost written story. 

I know one particular writer that spits out these plot bundles about 2 times a months, sells 100's of copies. Last I saw, the 10 plot set was selling for $14 with the price rising with every two sales. The pre-written "ghost written" stories cost several hundred dollars, but once you buy it, it's yours to put your name on, and do as you like. She only sells that story once. So, instead of writing a book and trying to get money over time, she writes it and gets money immediately.

This is appealing to the person that wants a Kindle / Amazon book revenue, without having to actually write a book.

I think the plots, because they are cheaper than a completed book, are sold to 100 or more people (not sure) and whether any of the buyers actually do anything with these plots, is another story.

But, this lady is clearly making bank, writing plots and completed stories, and selling them to people with obviously less imagination that those of us that hang out in this place.

Just sayin' - (btw - she's a friend of mine, and I don't want to create any troubles for her, so I won't post the link, but if you're dying to know - promise me you won't trash talk her efforts, message me, and I'll send you a link.) Maybe you can be her competition and sell out simple genre specific plots at $1 or more per plot. IMHO Competition is a good thing.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

SevenDays said:


> It works for James Patterson, so why not?


And don't forget Janet Evanovich.


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## Arrington Flynn (May 17, 2014)

Alain Gomez said:


> And don't forget Janet Evanovich.


OK - please explain, I don't understand the reference for Janet or Mr. P - are they selling their plots/pre-written books to other authors?


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

I think people are referring to the formulaic style of both authors. 

I don't think plot is my problem. It's all that fiddly stuff. Words. Sentences. Characterization. Depth. Coherence.


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## Arrington Flynn (May 17, 2014)

SBright said:


> I think people are referring to the formulaic style of both authors.
> 
> I don't think plot is my problem. It's all that fiddly stuff. Words. Sentences. Characterization. Depth. Coherence.


LOL - anyone who can describe MY PROBLEM with such precision doesn't have that problem.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Arrington Flynn said:


> OK - please explain, I don't understand the reference for Janet or Mr. P - are they selling their plots/pre-written books to other authors?


They were referring to the fact that it is well-known that both authors only come up with ideas now and send it to ghostwriters...
I don't think James Patterson has written a novel himself in over a decade :/


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## Arrington Flynn (May 17, 2014)

Charmaine said:


> They were referring to the fact that it is well-known that both authors only come up with ideas now and send it to ghostwriters...
> I don't think James Patterson has written a novel himself in over a decade :/


Thank you for explaining. I noticed the last Janet E book had a co-author, but that's different, I assume?


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## Kristopia (Dec 13, 2013)

SevenDays said:


> It works for James Patterson, so why not?


Bwa ha ha ha! Okay - thank you for that.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

EelKat, that's the most useful damn post I've seen in a long time. Thank you!


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Arrington Flynn said:


> Thank you for explaining. I noticed the last Janet E book had a co-author, but that's different, I assume?


I'm not super sure about Janet Evanovich, but Patterson gives co-author credit to the people who write his books after he gives them the plot sheet.

And Eelkat, that seems super fun! I may try it with a short story soon 

Edit: Eelkat, I just read through your whole post and just saying fun, doesn't do it justice.
That's incredible!! It seems like it would be a great exercise.

P.S As an illustrator, the more visual generators would be great to help fill in details in a picture.


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## TJBlain (Mar 4, 2014)

Wow, EelKat. Thanks for sharing. That's a fascinating way to write.

I love reading your posts.


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## Kristopia (Dec 13, 2013)

I feel as if it's a lot like doing writing prompts. I belong to a blog called "Today's Author," and they do some great writing promts, using three words, or a sentence, etc. To me, these plot sales are just more detailed writing prompts. I have too many ideas in my head currently to buy more, but there might be a time when I just want a prompt, or I feel stuck. I see no issue with writing a story around ideas presented in one of these plots. You're not plagiarizing, or being a "hack," so much as simply getting a little boost to a potentially great story.


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## Arrington Flynn (May 17, 2014)

Kristopia said:


> I feel as if it's a lot like doing writing prompts. I belong to a blog called "Today's Author," and they do some great writing promts, using three words, or a sentence, etc. To me, these plot sales are just more detailed writing prompts. I have too many ideas in my head currently to buy more, but there might be a time when I just want a prompt, or I feel stuck. I see no issue with writing a story around ideas presented in one of these plots. You're not plagiarizing, or being a "hack," so much as simply getting a little boost to a potentially great story.


Yes, good point. Plus, isn't there an old adage, that there are only 'so many' plots out there, and it's just variations on the same 10 or 20 themes?


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Great post, Eelkat

Plotto, a plot suggestion tool developed by pulp/dime novel writer William Wallace Cook, is quite similar. Once you get the hang of how it works, you can use it to give you ideas when you're stuck or use it as a generator or as a writing challenge or to find something new to do for your series characters, etc...

Plotta is available again after many years of being out of print, but only in print (well, it wouldn't work all that well as an e-book) and quite pricey:


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

Wow. Interesting topic and great post, EelKat. At lot of the individual pieces of info you provided could be useful to ANY writer, no matter his or her opinions of the overall process.


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## Nigel Mitchell (Jan 21, 2013)

Patterson should get a little more credit. He doesn't only give story ideas to his co-authors, he writes detailed outlines. His writing partners are more like ghost writers:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/29/how-i-write-james-patterson.html


> With the co-writing, I'll write a long outline, anywhere from 60-80 pages, and pretty much every chapter is dealt with, at least 80 percent of the chapters. I then ask the cowriter to contribute to the outline. For two reasons: two heads are better than one, but I also want them to feel that they're part of the process, that they've contributed throughout, even early on with the outline. I then ask that I see pages every few weeks. Unlike with the publisher, a year later or 18 months later you turn in the manuscript, and they might say, "Well, that isn't quite what I expected!" It isn't like that. I think it's better, every couple of weeks, to get some pages and talk. Sometimes it's just "This is terrific, I love the way it's going," and sometimes it's "We've come off the tracks somehow." If I don't like the characters or if I'm finding it predictable-if I know where it's going, then I won't want to read anymore. Ultimately, when I get the full draft from the cowriter, I'll then polish and/or write several more drafts myself, depending.


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## Nigel Mitchell (Jan 21, 2013)

Oh, and back to topic...heck yeah, I'd love to write plots and sell them. Sounds like easy money.

But I'll also love to take a look at one of these. I can't imagine what a plot would look like without specific details like place, setting, characters, etc. And a plot that can be used over and over again? Sweet.

Since we can't link to the forum, I'll paste one of the ads here. Gives an idea what they're looking for.



> In this set, you will receive 10 new and original plots for historical romance. Each plot is about 3-5 pages in length, although all of them are contained within one document so you can scroll through and find the one you want to use easily. Each of these plots has a full sketch of each main character, setting info and a long synopsis of the story.
> 
> Of course, as with any pre-written plot, you want to make changes that make your book unique. Things you can change include:
> Character names
> ...


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

Eeelkat, thanks for such a long detailed post about your process. I get stuck sometimes on names for taverns etc. in my fantasy books, that's a great resource to help jump-start it 

Plots I've got coming out of my ears, it's simple things like names of places/characters I get stuck on, LOL!


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Charmaine said:


> They were referring to the fact that it is well-known that both authors only come up with ideas now and send it to ghostwriters...
> I don't think James Patterson has written a novel himself in over a decade :/


Wait, when did that happen? When Janet has a co-author, that's different from a ghostwriter. I know one of her co-writers and he's awesome. Seriously though, are the new Plum books being ghostwritten? I suspected it on the last Plum book, because it wasn't even close to Janet's voice and writing style. But when did that become public knowledge or truth? Is that an actual thing?


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I never heard of this... Is this another James Patterson project or thing?

EDIT never mind. I reread and found the references.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Many thanks again to Eelkat for all those interesting looking generator links!


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Sophrosyne said:


> Wait, when did that happen? When Janet has a co-author, that's different from a ghostwriter. I know one of her co-writers and he's awesome. Seriously though, are the new Plum books being ghostwritten? I suspected it on the last Plum book, because it wasn't even close to Janet's voice and writing style. But when did that become public knowledge or truth? Is that an actual thing?


Yeah, I think Janet may be different in that aspect (she has a different idea of co-authoring as opposed to Patterson). But like you mentioned about the difference in quality in the Stephanie Plum books, people have mentioned glaring differences of quality across her different series. 
Patterson is open about it, so maybe I should amend what I said to, people strongly suspect both. 
But only one (Patterson) is out about it.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

If it's true, I really hope she finds a better ghostwriter for the Plum series, before whoever she's got destroys the franchise. Heck, if the job was open, I'd apply as a ghostwriter for a future Plum, just because I love that series so much.


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