# Google eBookstore is up and available, question.



## chilady1 (Jun 9, 2009)

So I just previewed the new Google ebookstore. Many of us have known about Google offering books for a while now, specifically those books out of the public domain. However, recently, Google announced it will begin to sell ebooks. The bookstore is now up and running, but here is my question: are these books only available to read online? It doesn't mention formats for different readers. Any thoughts? Here's the link for the bookstore.

http://books.google.com/ebooks


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

chilady1 said:


> So I just previewed the new Google ebookstore. Many of us have known about Google offering books for a while now, specifically those books out of the public domain. However, recently, Google announced it will begin to sell ebooks. The bookstore is now up and running, but here is my question: are these books only available to read online? It doesn't mention formats for different readers. Any thoughts? Here's the link for the bookstore.
> 
> http://books.google.com/ebooks


If you click on the bottom of the page you linked, where it says about google books, the next page has a tab for devices.


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## chilady1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks Heather - I missed that.  Looks like only Sony and Nook are supported which leads me to believe that Google is using epub format.  Without specific manipulation, Kindle is out for reading these books.  Thanks again!


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

They're imitating Amazon Kindle store's idea of universality. It's available online and for iPad/iTouch/iPhone, Android, Nook, and Sony. It's pretty smart, actually. I've actually been using Google books online for a while now, so Amazon's going to have to work hard to keep its sales up I think.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Seems to be unavailable here in Canada...?


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## chilady1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Daniel Arenson said:


> Seems to be unavailable here in Canada...?


Daniel - I am pretty sure that I heard it would be rolled out in the US first by end of year and then internationally sometime next year, as early as Q1 2011. Not sure of the date at this time.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

chilady1 said:


> ...which leads me to believe that Google is using epub format.


They are, indeed, selling ePub files. Google also offers PDF files.

Edited to add: The PDF files are Adobe Digital Editions with DRM so you should not be able to read them on your Kindle. At the moment there's a bug in the Google license so you can't read them anywhere.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm annoyed that because I'm in the UK, I can't even download the iPhone app to use the public domain books in the mean time. Way to go Google


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## mscottwriter (Nov 5, 2010)

So am I understanding this correctly...that they don't actually sell books the way Amazon does, but that they only direct traffic to your books?  Or was I missing something?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

mscott9985 said:


> So am I understanding this correctly...that they don't actually sell books the way Amazon does, but that they only direct traffic to your books? Or was I missing something?


They sell eBooks as ePub or PDF files that can be read online, on a computer or on selected devices.


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

Does anybody think there is any hope of Amazon getting into epubs?  I get more and more people asking me why not the Nook.  IMO only, but I really think the industry will be moving to the epub standard.  The Kindle is the best ereader out there with currently the best choice of books and reading material but this is its serious shortcoming, again IMO.

I don't want to be a dual ereader family but we might be considering it.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Does anybody think there is any hope of Amazon getting into epubs? I get more and more people asking me why not the Nook. IMO only, but I really think the industry will be moving to the epub standard. The Kindle is the best ereader out there with currently the best choice of books and reading material but this is its serious shortcoming, again IMO.
> 
> I don't want to be a dual ereader family but we might be considering it.


This is more complicated than it seems. The format isn't really the issue, it's the licensing. Even if the Kindle read ePub files it wouldn't be able to get the license from Google unless Amazon and Google had an agreement.


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## sleepy6553 (Nov 21, 2010)

The story in USA Today says the books can be read on Kindle.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/12/google-opens-e-book-store/1?loc=interstitialskip


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

sleepy6553 said:


> The story in USA Today says the books can be read on Kindle.
> 
> http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2010/12/google-opens-e-book-store/1?loc=interstitialskip


They must know something I don't. I just bought a book, downloaded the PDF and tried to read it on my Kindle - no dice.


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

I think USA Today made a mistake.  Kindle is not listed as one of the devices, both Nook and Sony are.  I think any eReader that can use Adobe Digital Editions can load a Google book.


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## sleepy6553 (Nov 21, 2010)

Looks like USA Today got their facts wrong. Maybe Google plans to offer them in Kindle format in the future.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I was pulling books up at random from my wishlist  (well, mostly random - I skipped books under the agency model) and in many cases google is slightly cheaper than amazon.  Now this could a loss lead to get into the market, but I wonder if it will spark a pricing war ...


.... for that matter, it seems a new salvo into the format wars - and I'll be happy when one format is decided upon ....


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

BTW, anyone wanting to check prices between the different stores can now do it on Goodreads:

http://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/248.The_New_Compare_Prices_Page_featuring_Google_eBooks


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## chilady1 (Jun 9, 2009)

sleepy6553 said:


> Looks like USA Today got their facts wrong. Maybe Google plans to offer them in Kindle format in the future.


Looks like USA Today just updated the story at 12:37pm indicating that 
"Amazon's Kindle e-reader is not compatible with Google's eBooks service, according to a list of supported devices on its website. Apologies for the error."

They have corrected the error.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Technically, USA Today could claim they are correct that it supports Kindle, because you can read the books in K3's web browser. But the experience is terrible. Very large margins all the way around, and you have to click on the arrow on the right side of the screen to go to the next page (kindle's page turn buttons do nothing).


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## kindlegrl81 (Jan 19, 2010)

Luvmy4brats said:


> BTW, anyone wanting to check prices between the different stores can now do it on Goodreads:
> 
> http://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/248.The_New_Compare_Prices_Page_featuring_Google_eBooks


Is there some trick to this? Every time I click on a book it either doesn't show it available as an Amazon e-book (when I know it is) or it gives me the wrong price. I tried about 4 or 5 before giving up.


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## Joe Chiappetta (May 20, 2010)

I would be very surprised if Amazon opened up to ePub format any time soon. It seems like a stubborn business practice on their part--very short sighted.


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## sleepy6553 (Nov 21, 2010)

Just got this email from Google. So maybe someday we will be able to read their ebooks on our Kindle.

Hi Christine,

Thank you for contacting Google eBooks support. At this time, it's not
possible to purchase Google eBooks through your Kindle, though we are open
to supporting the Kindle in the future. It also appears that USA Today has
since revised their article to reflect this.


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## BoomerSoonerOKU (Nov 22, 2009)

Yeah, from reading a bit about it, it seems they are keeping the idea of selling books for the Kindle open.

I would imagine doing so would greatly increase their sales.


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

Just remember that the Google ebookstore is different from Google books.  Google books has many books that aren't on other sites, like PG, but that are in the public domain.  Many times, you can do a quick conversion on Calibre and get those books for your Kindle.  

Unfortunately, I don't see Google entering this market as increasing the supply in such a way that the cost of books will decline.  Too many people are locked into single-format readers.  I know I am locked in for the Kindle.  However, I might consider a different reader in the future should Google books consistently undersell Amazon, but not until the DX runs down!


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

I just surfed over to Google Books on my K3 and loaded up a public domain book Google is giving out and I was able to read it.  It was rather clunky, but doable.

Has anyone tried this with a paid book?


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## R. H. Greene (Jul 15, 2010)

My online reading tells me the Google eBook store caused Google's stock to rise recently and Amazon's stock to go down. The logic here: Google's unbelievable reach coupled with its dedication to "the cloud" makes this enterprise a special threat to Amazon, since the whole point of the Google ebook model is to render reading digitally independent of a proprietary platform or device. Translation: they are going for Amazon's jugular vein. And they've neatly appropriated a standard book lover's complaint about Amazon being the enemy of independent book stores by making the platform one where indie chains provide fullfillment for print editions.

In other words: it's war. And Google means business.

I throw in a negative comment on the Google ebook marketplace: as an author who has done just fine selling Kindle editions, I decided to see how easy it would be to post a novel to the Google store, which is a simple and very logical process using Amazon dtp. On Google, it is an impossibility. It cannot be figured out, if it is at all possible to do so--at least by me.

Kindle lovers: is your favorite reading device about to suffer from an existential threat?

Please discuss.

- R. H. Greene


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

merged two similar topics. . . . .


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

Interesting development. I guess Amazon now has to decide if they want to be in the e-book business or the e-reader business, because doing both might squeeze them out. Of course they might be happy with just a portion of the market, but I gotta think they are planning to be the ipod of e-readers, with the kindle device and amazon.com the default choices. But clearly other places are jumping in with both feet after seeing apple walk away with mp3 dominance due to competitor apathy.

Seems a simple software upgrade to open up epub to the kindle. Amazon will have to decide if losing the "kindle" e-book exclusivity is worth it to offset sales to the nook and sony. Conversely, they could either adopt epub themselves, or license kindle DRM to other manufacturers and erode their hardware market. I suspect they will hang on to the hardware market long enough for "kindle" to be the common phrase for any e-reader and amazon.com the pre-emminent e-bookstore, then they will open up their DRM to more devices and not push the kindle e-reader as hard. I think they make much more money much more easily with e-books than with e-readers


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## bobavey (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, it's all totally confusing to me. Then again, most things are.


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

@jason10mm

I agree with your last sentence.  As Kindle owners, we appreciate the quality that we have.  However, new potential ereader owners have no such appreciation or loyalty.  Both price and format will be priority factors to new buyers--This will be an interesting Holiday buying season to test my statement .  There are so many new ereaders/"pads" coming out that I don't believe that Amazon will be able to tough it out and retain it's hardware leadership position.  What do I base this on?  Just my personal past observations of how the market reacts to new tech products.  That's just the way it is--not that I like it that way.  Amazon would do well to get epub going asap.  They have done well in putting all the apps out there for lots of different hardware.  In some ways, I think the buying public has brainwashed into believing that the more tech features you have, the better off you are. Yes, there has been developer apathy in the past, but have you seen the new add for a color nook?


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## Starearedkid (Jan 25, 2010)

I would honestly buy a kindle 3 in a heartbeat if it accepted epub. 100% of my books are DRM'd epub, and honestly until they accept epub, I won't buy a kindle 3.

I just hate the idea of two different formats at odds with each other, because then the customers are the primary ones who lose out.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

I don't know if Amazon will do it or not.  Personally I don't really care as long as I can get a version of the book in mobi.  All I see epub on Kindle doing is increasing the cost of ebooks because Amazon will have to license another DRM scheme.  Personally I'd like to just see the end of DRM so I can convert the book to any format I want.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Forster said:


> Personally I'd like to just see the end of DRM so I can convert the book to any format I want.


This would be wonderful, but sadly it will likely never occur. There are too many people happy to steal intellectual property and to justify why they are entitled to do so.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Elk said:


> This would be wonderful, but sadly it will likely never occur. There are too many people happy to steal intellectual property and to justify why they are entitled to do so.


DRM isn't going to stop peeps from stealing, all it does is inconvenience legitimate customers and turn them into criminals if they try and convert content they bought so it can be read on another reader.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Elk said:


> This would be wonderful, but sadly it will likely never occur. There are too many people happy to steal intellectual property and to justify why they are entitled to do so.


Doesn't Amazon sell DRM-free mp3s? If it works for music industry....


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## mscottwriter (Nov 5, 2010)

> On Google, it is an impossibility. It cannot be figured out, if it is at all possible to do so--at least by me.


I *finally *figured out how to do it, but it was a real pain in the behind!!

Here's the link that finally was able to help me out - http://books.google.com/support/partner/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=170425


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

history_lover said:


> Doesn't Amazon sell DRM-free mp3s? If it works for music industry....


Exactly... why oh why didn't the book industry learn from the music industries mistakes.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Forster said:


> DRM isn't going to stop peeps from stealing, all it does is inconvenience legitimate customers and turn them into criminals if they try and convert content they bought so it can be read on another reader.


True, but it makes it more difficult for the less tech capable to steal. It is work to find a non-DRM epub or mobi file, convert if necessary, etc. Even fewer people can actually strip DRM from a file.

There is essentially nothing that can be secured well enough to prevent the dedicated thief - even car locks, ignition code key lockouts, etc. can be bypassed. But they do cut down on theft a great deal. For example. modern Corvettes are very tough to steal. It's even hard for a trained lock smith to start one.

The music industry has not figured out how to distribute electronic intellectual property, nor has anyone else yet done so.

I don't like DRM but I am afraid it will be with us for a long time in one form or another.


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## shalym (Sep 1, 2010)

Elk said:


> The music industry has not figured out how to distribute electronic intellectual property, nor has anyone else yet done so.


I believe they have...iTunes, AmazonMP3, etc.

Shari


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

This article talks about Google looking into advertisements inside eBooks.

http://www.techeye.net/internet/google-wants-to-stick-adverts-in-ebooks


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

It looks like they have the same books at same prices as Amazon.  Why would I want to buy from google ebooks?


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

mlewis78 said:


> It looks like they have the same books at same prices as Amazon. Why would I want to buy from google ebooks?


Google will have more eBooks than anyone other store if they are able to add the orphan works they have scanned.


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

Elk said:


> True, but it makes it more difficult for the less tech capable to steal. It is work to find a non-DRM epub or mobi file, convert if necessary, etc. Even fewer people can actually strip DRM from a file.
> 
> There is essentially nothing that can be secured well enough to prevent the dedicated thief - even car locks, ignition code key lockouts, etc. can be bypassed. But they do cut down on theft a great deal. For example. modern Corvettes are very tough to steal. It's even hard for a trained lock smith to start one.


I really do tire of the comparisons between physical objects and digital objects. Every single analogy fails. Copyright violations are not theft. Theft, by definition, deprives the original owner of the object and a copyright violation does not. Copyright violations deprive the original owner of income, yes. (Though I'd be surprised if even 1% of illegal book downloads translate to lost sales, and FAR fewer downloaded books than that are actually read.)

The thing with DRM is it doesn't have to be simple to crack to be flawed. It only needs to be cracked by a single person, THEN distributed.

All that said, most current ebook DRM schemes are simple to crack. Install a script, and run it. It literally takes seconds. With one exception (Amazon's DRM scheme in certain situations) current ebook DRM is no more effective than a worn-down speed bump. Google uses one of the existing schemes (Adobe Digital Editions) for their DRM.

Now, I know very few people will do that. I happen to, but not to redistribute - that would be illegal. In fact, doing it at all in the US is technically illegal due to the DMCA. I do it so I'm not locked in to a particular vendor's ecosystem. That, I don't like the publisher's assumption that I'm a crook. Frankly, I'd pay a dollar more for a non-DRM'd version of a book. It's a reason why much of my book money goes to places like Baen and indies, and my music money goes to Amazon and eMusic.

(This message is looking rather screed-like, and I might delete it later. But I'm sick of the fear-based over-emphasis on piracy.)


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> merged two similar topics. . . . .


They don't seem similar to me. We started talking about the Google book store and ended up with the same old tired argument about DRM.


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

Jeff said:


> They don't seem similar to me. We started talking about the Google book store and ended up with the same old tired argument about DRM.


Yes. The merged thread was about Amazon's upcoming strategy choices.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Jeff said:


> They don't seem similar to me. We started talking about the Google book store and ended up with the same old tired argument about DRM.


Sorry the topic strayed down into something you are tired of Jeff. Unfortunately DRM is reason the Google ebook store is completely useless to Kindle users ATM. Only solutions to the problem seem to be Kindle adopt Adobe's DRM scheme for epub or DRM goes away. Well I _suppose_ google could adopt mobi and Amazon's DRM scheme, like that's gonna happen.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Forster said:


> Sorry the topic strayed down into something you are tired of Jeff. Unfortunately DRM is reason the Google ebook store is completely useless to Kindle users ATM. Only solutions to the problem seem to be Kindle adopt Adobe's DRM scheme for epub or DRM goes away. Well I _suppose_ google could adopt mobi and Amazon's DRM scheme, like that's gonna happen.


I was actually complaining to Ann for merging the two topics, Forster. The reason I used the term "tired" to describe the DRM argument is that it's like raging at a thunderstorm. Google or Amazon could make both libraries cross-compatible with very little effort - instead they choose to compete. The argument that they're trying to protect the copyright holder's rights is a smoke screen. They're actually trying to protect their market share and/or dominate the market.


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

Forster said:


> Unfortunately DRM is reason the Google ebook store is completely useless to Kindle users ATM. Only solutions to the problem seem to be Kindle adopt Adobe's DRM scheme for epub or DRM goes away. Well I _suppose_ google could adopt mobi and Amazon's DRM scheme, like that's gonna happen.


I don't think Amazon views Kindle users not being able to use ePub stores as a problem.

Btw, I think Jeff is correct; these are two different topics that didn't need to be merged.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I was actually complaining to Ann for merging the two topics, Forster. The reason I used the term "tired" to describe the DRM argument is that it's like raging at a thunderstorm. Google or Amazon could make both libraries cross-compatible with very little effort - instead they choose to compete. The argument that they're trying to protect the copyright holder's rights is a smoke screen. They're actually trying to protect their market share and/or dominate the market.


Oh, I agree with that whole heartily. Personally I think Amazon is going to win, unless of course Google can bring the orphan book thing to fruition. Then If they get the okay to go forward with it I can't see why Amazon couldn't go forward with selling orphan works as well. Given time I just don't see any ebook seller getting a one up on the competition regarding content. Once the basic file is created by the publisher it's really simple to convert to another format, unless of course it's a PDF file, lol, but epub to mobi is pretty easy.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

shalym said:


> I believe they have...iTunes, AmazonMP3, etc.


Yes, the music industry does sell non-DRM music files. Unfortunately it is a poor business model; more digital copies of music are distributed illegally than are downloaded legally.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Basilius said:


> I really do tire of the comparisons between physical objects and digital objects. Every single analogy fails. Copyright violations are not theft. Theft, by definition, deprives the original owner of the object and a copyright violation does not. Copyright violations deprive the original owner of income, yes.


An interesting exercise in semantics.

The illegal taking of intellectual property is long recognized in the law. One is stealing something to which one is not entitled; i.e., theft. Merely because additional digital copies are easily created does not change this. Thus, there is theft of trade secrets, etc.

Civil _damages_ can be determined, in part, by the loss of income. However statutorily it is much more complicated than this. In additional to civil liability, criminal liability often attaches.

Regardless, the damages are not the crime; the crime is the taking that which is not yours.

This confusion is one explanation of why stealing songs, movies, ebooks, etc. is easy for some: "I didn't really take anything, just a copy. I didn't take an object like a CD." This is an intellectually dishonest rationalization for unethical and illegal behavior.

It is sad that DRM is necessary to protect the property interests of book copyright holders.

I would love for both Amazon and Google to offer DRM free ebooks so that they could readily be converted between formats. It is also frustrating that a format war is developing. This generally hurts consumers by limiting options. Plus, the best format doesn't always win.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Elk said:


> Yes, the music industry does sell non-DRM music files. Unfortunately it is a poor business model; more digital copies of music are distributed illegally than are downloaded legally.


The question about it being a poor business model isn't answered by the number of copies distributed illegally, it's answered by does the music industry sell more music offering DRM free music vs DRM'd music. I don't know the answer to that question.


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## tsemple (Apr 27, 2009)

Cardinal said:


> I just surfed over to Google Books on my K3 and loaded up a public domain book Google is giving out and I was able to read it. It was rather clunky, but doable.
> 
> Has anyone tried this with a paid book?


Yes. You can read about my experience here: kindlecookies.com.

Basically, as a proof of concept it is interesting. I think that if one of Amazon's competitors wanted to gain a foothold among Kindle users, they just need to improve on what Google has delivered so their web app works well on Kindle's browser (keyboard shortcuts, pgdown/pgup turn pages, etc.). Not just for multiple-device families, but so Kindle owners have more choices. It will never be as convenient as Kindle Store, etc. but it could be pretty good, I think.

Another 'epub on the web' site is ibisreader.com. You can upload non-drm ePub books to a virtual bookshelf and read them on your Kindle (or using any browser). On Kindle, once you enter the 'no distractions' mode, it works pretty well on K3's browser, and while I think Google has the right idea ('pages'), ibisreader is more useable at present (but won't do DRM).

It is only a matter of time before B&N, Borders/Kobo, etc. follow Google and Amazon's lead and deploy a web-browser DRMed-ebook viewer. If they are smart, they'll provide good support for the Kindle browser.

I'll be publishing an article about this on kindlecookies.com in the next week or so...


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

chilady1 said:


> So I just previewed the new Google ebookstore. Many of us have known about Google offering books for a while now, specifically those books out of the public domain. However, recently, Google announced it will begin to sell ebooks. The bookstore is now up and running, but here is my question: are these books only available to read online? It doesn't mention formats for different readers. Any thoughts? Here's the link for the bookstore.
> 
> http://books.google.com/ebooks


Ugh, not available in Australia. Can't be bothered to fake my IP to check it out. Oh well Google, there goes some money you could have had.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Elk said:


> Yes, the music industry does sell non-DRM music files. Unfortunately it is a poor business model; more digital copies of music are distributed illegally than are downloaded legally.


There was obviously a good reason they eventually dropped the DRM. And that reason could very well apply to the ebook industry too.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Elk said:


> Yes, the music industry does sell non-DRM music files. Unfortunately it is a poor business model; more digital copies of music are distributed illegally than are downloaded legally.


Music was distributed illegally while Itunes still had DRM on their music.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

The webpage at the end of the link in the original post says that there is no file download; that the reading is done, "in the cloud". Sounds like, if you want to read, you'd better be near a WiFi hot spot or have a 3G device. Is this correct?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

HappyGuy said:


> The webpage at the end of the link in the original post says that there is no file download; that the reading is done, "in the cloud". Sounds like, if you want to read, you'd better be near a WiFi hot spot or have a 3G device. Is this correct?


[quote author=http://books.google.com/ebooks?id=sbxmbD-HKooC&output=acs_help]To read on e-ink devices like the Sony eReader or Barnes & Noble Nook, you'll need to download a file and transfer it your device.
Please follow the detailed Help center instructions to transfer the files to supported eReaders.[/quote]


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

mlewis78 said:


> Music was distributed illegally while Itunes still had DRM on their music.


Absolutely true.

DRM protected music files failed because CDs are not DRM protected and so many people rip and distribute them. iTunes has always been tiny in comparison to illegally distributed music files.

iTunes works as a distribution model as its search engine is excellent and the files are properly tagged. Both eliminate effort on the part of the consumer. Thus - and because of personal ethics or lack of computer sophistication - some people buy from iTunes.

The music industry has found that DRM on electronically distributed files does not effectively cut down on pirating nor increase sales. Thus it has dropped DRM.

Ebooks of nonpublic domain books without DRM are not otherwise readily available; there is not an ebook equivalent of a CD. Thus, DRM remains fairly effective in protecting ebook content.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Elk said:


> Ebooks of nonpublic domain books without DRM are not otherwise readily available; there is not an ebook equivalent of a CD. Thus, DRM remains fairly effective in protecting ebook content.


I agree it's not as easy to scan a book and create an ebook as it is to rip an mp3 from a CD, if that's what you're saying. But illegally downloading ebooks is just as easy as illegally downloading music. No, it's not for the non-technically minded but if you know how to use bit torrents, you can find most mainstream books.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

history_lover said:


> I agree it's not as easy to scan a book and create an ebook as it is to rip an mp3 from a CD, if that's what you're saying.


This is true. My point was that it is easier to rip a CD than it is to strip DRM from an ebook file. Computers come with software that will rip a CD. To strip DRM from an ebook you need to search for a third-party program in disreputable places, etc. - much more work.



> But illegally downloading ebooks is just as easy as illegally downloading music. No, it's not for the non-technically minded but if you know how to use bit torrents, you can find most mainstream books.


It's as easy in practice but there are far fewer ebook torrents. But you are absolutely correct that a lot is out there if you are willing to dig.

In the future there well may be as many ebook torrents as music torrents, rendering DRM protected ebooks as useless as music file DRM.


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## Cardinal (Feb 24, 2010)

Nice write up tsemple!

I agree, I think the other stores will sell web-browser books.  Personally I hope reading from the cloud doesn't become popular.  I like having Amazon store my books in the cloud and actually reading off my Kindle and not having to worry about a wireless connection.


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

Elk said:


> An interesting exercise in semantics.
> The illegal taking of intellectual property is long recognized in the law. One is stealing something to which one is not entitled; i.e., theft. Merely because additional digital copies are easily created does not change this. Thus, there is theft of trade secrets, etc.
> Civil _damages_ can be determined, in part, by the loss of income. However statutorily it is much more complicated than this. In additional to civil liability, criminal liability often attaches.
> Regardless, the damages are not the crime; the crime is the taking that which is not yours.
> ...


This an excellent statement regarding why DRM/Copyrights exist.

I don't have an ipod, but I think that itunes has been smart in the way they setup their music distribution. I'm waiting for our new Sony mp3 player to arrive so I can put some of our cds on it and also buy some audio mp3 books. Amazon has a lot of mp3 downloads available for 0.99 cents each. We've bought some for backing tracks for our Christmas gigs. You can also buy mp3 albums for a reasonable price, too.


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