# New Paperwhite in the works



## backslidr (Nov 23, 2012)

Coming out early next year with much higher resolution and page turn buttons.
Here's the link: http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/24/amazons-next-kindle-paperwhite-to-feature-300ppi-screen-better-typography-arrive-early-next-year/


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

7vn11vn said:


> Coming out early next year with much higher resolution and page turn buttons.
> Here's the link: http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/24/amazons-next-kindle-paperwhite-to-feature-300ppi-screen-better-typography-arrive-early-next-year/


If I read right somewhere, also a Fire-esque, Kobo Auraesque flush glass front?

Yes, it seems e-ink Kindles are moving more and more towards the tablet type of experience and further away from their book-replicating e-ink roots. I wonder how a possibly glass works in a reader.

Those who know my opinions know that's a controversial direction for me.  But I'm sure the mass market seems to love touchy, shiny tablets, so I can understand the business point of view.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

And reportedly a better font... 

But the question is--will it have cloud collections. 

Thanks, we need to get riled up about a new PW.  When can we order it!!

I'll like the page turn buttons, that would be enough for me to get one, all other things being equal.  Plus I need one as a moderator here and a tech editor. 

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

The article said Q2, so not before April.

Home button? 

As to glass . . . . . well, there's glass and there's glass.  The original kindle had a glass screen -- the eInky bit was behind it.  Just because it's glass doesn't mean it's shiny like a color tablet.  I didn't see anything in that article to indicate the eInk-readable-in-bright-light-dedicated-eReader is going away.


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

Darn, why couldn't they have mentioned this before my 30 day return window was gone?  Oh well, who am I kidding?  I'll order one anyway.  

Love the page turn buttons concept.....now if they just give us the progress bar back as well, it might be the perfect device!


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Ann in Arlington said:


> The article said Q2, so not before April.
> 
> Home button?
> 
> As to glass . . . . . well, there's glass and there's glass. The original kindle had a glass screen -- the eInky bit was behind it. Just because it's glass doesn't mean it's shiny like a color tablet. I didn't see anything in that article to indicate the eInk-readable-in-bright-light-dedicated-eReader is going away.


Sure, there is glass and there is glass. But already PW1/PW2 suffer from a multi-layered screen that takes away from the book-like experience. One of the great benefits of e-ink, in my opinion, is that the text is on top of the screen - almost like printed on paper. The more stuff you add between yourself and the e-ink screen, the less it will look like a page from the book. I know many people don't care about it looking like a page from a book, but for me that has been a major benefit of e-ink. So far it seems like the market, or at least Amazon, is moving into a different direction.

Must stock up on regular Kindles before the cancel the lot.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I take credit for this. If I hadn't replaced my PW1 with a PW2, this wouldn't be happening! I'm going to ponder returning my PW2, but probably will not. Remember, this is not an official announcement, and even if the device is real, it may not end up going  into production, or may end up coming out later than Q2 of next year. I guess it is logical that Amazon would feel they must keep their resolution even with the Kobo, though I haven't been unhappy with current resolution. But the stats war in advertising affects ereaders as well as smartphones and tablets, I guess.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FearIndex said:


> Sure, there is glass and there is glass. But already PW1/PW2 suffer from a multi-layered screen that takes away from the book-like experience. One of the great benefits of e-ink, in my opinion, is that the text is on top of the screen - almost like printed on paper. The more stuff you add between yourself and the e-ink screen, the less it will look like a page from the book. I know many people don't care about it looking like a page from a book, but for me that has been a major benefit of e-ink. So far it seems like the market, or at least Amazon, is moving into a different direction.
> 
> Must stock up on regular Kindles before the cancel the lot.


I think the current screen is fine -- really good in fact. I've thought all the screens are fine. Very paper-like in my opinion. And, for me, BETTER than a page from a book. They tend to yellow, are sometimes hard to read if the binding is too tight, I can't make the print bigger, and I can't even begin to read in a car or airplane because of the way the paper moves. I just don't see Amazon stopping the production of eInk screens and I think each new iteration is likely to be, overall, an improvement.

I guess I prefer to assume that a new device will be better, rather than assuming it won't. One could argue that sets me up for disappointment, in case it's not, but I've not too often been disappointed either. I'm pretty easy going, really, so a thing has to really suck before I'm going to speak badly about it. Sears appliance customer service and repair service comes to mind: it's really abysmal. But Amazon's products and services have always been at least acceptable to me and frequently have been really really excellent. So I'm going to assume a new kindle eInk model next year will be as well. Whatever it's made of. 



The Hooded Claw said:


> I take credit for this. If I hadn't replaced my PW1 with a PW2, this wouldn't be happening! I'm going to ponder returning my PW2, but probably will not. Remember, this is not an official announcement, and even if the device is real, it may not end up going into production, or may end up coming out later than Q2 of next year. I guess it is logical that Amazon would feel they must keep their resolution even with the Kobo, though I haven't been unhappy with current resolution. But the stats war in advertising affects ereaders as well as smartphones and tablets, I guess.


So true. This is, at best, in the 'rumor' category, though TechCrunch is usually relatively reliable. Still, even they say it's way advance information and features and specs could change.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

A flush glass layer would be the absolute horror for me. I already keep fiddling trying to find the edge on my fire, the few times I tried reading on it. I keep getting distracted having to look down each time changing a page. Its this edge feel I need to know where my thumb is sitting. Sigh. I really don't want glass on top in a flush layer. My PW1 already has a bit less of that magical thing about e-ink. That thing where the letters sit right at the top. 

On my K3 its like that, My K1. I don't know how better to describe that, but its like the "printed" words just sit right at the top. Its so easy on my eyes. With the extra layers on my PW, its already a bit less so. Is a bit like looking through a window, or something. Again, I am not good at describing this. Its like the letters are more deeper inside the screen than on the K3. If there is a glass layer on top I would be afraid that looking into a window effect would be even worse. 

Since this is all still rumors, I really hope not. I might have to go back to unlit e-ink in the future, assuming they will still make the baby kindle going forward. 

I am gong to pretend I never saw these rumors, or I worry myself silly. For me, I can only read on e-ink kindles. I don't have any other options. So I get testy when I hear rumors like that. And really worried.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

You sound just like me, Atunah.  Glad to see I'm not alone.

As for page changing in the rumoured PW3, the article makes interesting mention of new kinds of buttons in the bezel. I'll keep an open mind on those, after all PW touch was perfectly fine for me too, even though I was skeptical of that.

But I am, like you, worried that Amazon (perhaps the whole market, "tainted" by tablets) is moving more and more away of the "pure" magic of e-ink, the printed-text-likeness where text just sits there, on top of the screen like printed word...


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I thought I recalled the article saying the glass was going to have a matte finish? I just skimmed it...

EDIT: Here it is, near the beginning of the article:



> is made out of very matte glass of some sort,


Betsy


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I thought I recalled the article saying the glass was going to have a matte finish? I just skimmed it...
> 
> EDIT: Here it is, near the beginning of the article:
> 
> Betsy


That is true - and fortunate, glossy glass would have been the worst.

But still, the more layers you put on top, the more you create "a window" (like Atunah put it so well!) through which you look at the text. It sounds like the wrong direction for me, personally.

I won't judge before I see one of course, this is just speculation at this point.


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

Hmm... I've been seriously considering the purchase of a Paperwhite. Between the recent bungled software update (cloud collections mess) and the possibility of a new Paperwhite _with page-turn buttons_ by the middle of next year, I may decide to wait instead of pressing the Buy button anytime soon. I guess I'll see how long I can hold out.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

FearIndex said:


> But still, the more layers you put on top, the more you create "a window" (like Atunah put it so well!) through which you look at the text. It sounds like the wrong direction for me, personally.





Atunah said:


> A flush glass layer would be the absolute horror for me. I already keep fiddling trying to find the edge on my fire, the few times I tried reading on it. I keep getting distracted having to look down each time changing a page. Its this edge feel I need to know where my thumb is sitting. Sigh. I really don't want glass on top in a flush layer. My PW1 already has a bit less of that magical thing about e-ink. That thing where the letters sit right at the top.
> 
> On my K3 its like that, My K1. I don't know how better to describe that, but its like the "printed" words just sit right at the top. Its so easy on my eyes. With the extra layers on my PW, its already a bit less so. Is a bit like looking through a window, or something. Again, I am not good at describing this. Its like the letters are more deeper inside the screen than on the K3. If there is a glass layer on top I would be afraid that looking into a window effect would be even worse.


I don't read anything about more layers? Here's the quote:



> We've seen a prototype of the device which has a front screen that is flush with the edges of the device, rather than recessed, and is made out of very matte glass of some sort, not plastic. Despite moving to glass, the new units are said to be lighter than this year's models.


It reads to me that the glass will replace plastic layers, not add additional ones.

Atunah, it seems to me that if there are actual page turn buttons, and the bezel is plastic not glass, you won't have the problem you have with the Fire, you'll be able to tell where your thumb is.

I'm with Ann...I'm going to assume it's going to be a better device until proven wrong. I'm a glass half-full kind of gal. 

Betsy


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

To me too the "PW3" sounds potentially better than PW2 until proven otherwise. Interesting page turning solution in the bezel area (no touching the screen itself), and flush screen also sounds interesting as a design. Not sure about the Fire-esque back, but then I don't look at the back anyway - it would be covered by a cover.

My main concern is with the direction in general. If you like more tabletty e-readers (with some of the e-ink benefits like battery-life and sun-readability), the PW direction is absolutely fine. But for those who refer the more printed-text-feel that has come from traditional e-ink, the new direction does sound less interesting.

When I got my Kindle 2, I loved the fact that in the middle of this cool slab of hardware was like a page out of a book. Like printed text. That page would captivate me to the point that it didn't bother me there was a keyboard underneath it (which sounded suspect to me the first time I heard of a Kindle). The screen experience, already on the much disparaged Kindle 2, was magical to me.

On the PW1/PW2, especially when lit, but even when not lit, some of that "page of a book" is already lost to me like Atunah says.


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## Brownskins (Nov 18, 2011)

FearIndex said:


> My main concern is with the direction in general. If you like more tabletty e-readers (with some of the e-ink benefits like battery-life and sun-readability), the PW direction is absolutely fine. But for those who refer the more printed-text-feel that has come from traditional e-ink, the new direction does sound less interesting.


FearIndex, I have read most of your posts in the past and I see that you are very detail oriented and also very skeptical (professional skepticism is a valuable trait). Is that why your pseudonym is "Fear" (skeptical) "index" (detailed list)? Sorry, had to ask... thanks for being an active member of KB.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I don't read anything about more layers? Here's the quote:
> 
> It reads to me that the glass will replace plastic layers, not add additional ones.
> 
> ...


It is possible the amount of layers and thickness of layers remains the same or even lessens. I do fear glass by nature might interfere more than the kind of plastic we have become accustomed to on Kindles, but that is pure speculation. For all we know, they might have been able to make the layers less visible than on PW1/PW2.

By the sound of it, adding glass just founds like a very tabletty thing to do - as do all the design changes. It does sound disconcerting to someone who is fond of the more traditional Kindle experience.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Brownskins said:


> FearIndex, I have read most of your posts in the past and I see that you are very detail oriented and also very skeptical (professional skepticism is a valuable trait). Is that why your pseudonym is "Fear" (skeptical) "index" (detailed list)? Sorry, had to ask... thanks for being an active member of KB.


There may be subconscious reasons, pseudonum's tend to tell something about the people behind them, but nothing so explicit in this case. Fear Index is a book and stock market terminology related to expected volatility.

Maybe I'm now measuring the expected volatility of the PW technology...


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

FearIndex said:


> It is possible the amount of layers and thickness of layers remains the same or even lessens. I do fear glass by nature might interfere more than the kind of plastic we have become accustomed to on Kindles, but that is pure speculation. For all we know, they might have been able to make the layers less visible than on PW1/PW2.
> 
> By the sound of it, adding glass just founds like a very tabletty thing to do - as do all the design changes. It does sound disconcerting to someone who is fond of the more traditional Kindle experience.


On the other hand, adding buttons doesn't seem more tabletty; the trend has been away from buttons on tablets.  I guess we'll have to wait and see...and discuss the heck out of it between now and then! 

Betsy


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> On the other hand, adding buttons doesn't seem more tabletty; the trend has been away from buttons on tablets.


That, of course, is true. Page change keys of any sort would be, in a way, unexpected return to some of that traditionalism.

The description of the buttons sounds quite intriguing. I wonder if they are visible buttons at all, perhaps something more minimalistic.

Then again, me myself have no issues with touch on PWs, although the added layer on the screen can be a little distracting (hard to say how visible it might be without the light layer though).

I thought I'd miss page change keys, but I don't. I do miss the "pure", non-lit, non-capacitive-tough e-ink experience on the PWs, though.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I don't read anything about more layers? Here's the quote:
> 
> It reads to me that the glass will replace plastic layers, not add additional ones.
> 
> ...


Ok, so I missed the button part. I would love button, but I am skeptical at a new device that will bring them back with everything now being touch screen. Unless of course they incorporate some well placed buttons that are touch screen. Now there is a thought. 
The thing with layers, now depending on how its manufactured, would there still not be a bezel of sort to hold down the eink. I mean it has to have some frame around the e-ink. So if the glass goes over the whole shebang, it would float even "higher" above the actual e-ink text. Light layer, touch layer and now the flush glass over the bezel and the e-ink screen. I think the kobo has that flush thingy, no way to look at one here though.

I'll have to see it. I hope that amazon continues to cater to readers with their kindles. My concern with that is that many readers now love using tablets for reading so don't have the limitations I have. I can't read on a tablet for example, no matter how hard I try. So I don't want the tablet experience to encroach on my e-ink experience. If sales are more with tablet styles and functions, I just fear that pure e-readers will lean towards that section for sales.

In short, I am like a cat. I like what I like and I don't want to change it too much or I'll pout.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Q2 seems to be too soon for a new PW. They seem to come out in late fall for the holiday gift season. I love my PW2, except for the latest software update, and would have to wait and see what improvements would be made in a new model. I would certainly not wait in purchasing a PW because of a new model possibility, there is always a new model coming just around the corner. When Ralph Kramden (The Honeymooners for you youngsters) was asked why he wouldn't buy one of the new color TVs, his reply was he was waiting for 3D TV.

Steve


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Figures, after I JUST bought a PW2!

But does this even have a touchscreen? It's sounding like it doesn't.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the fact that it's being called a Paperwhite, which is a touch screen, confirms the touch screen.  People have been asking for page turn buttons as well as touch turning for some time.  I think if it weren't a touch screen, that would have been explicity pointed out.  IMHO, of course.

Betsy


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## Meka (Sep 8, 2011)

I was really tempted to purchase a PW2,  the rumor of a new "PW3" to come in Q2 of 2014 just made it a whole lot easier to stick with my PW1 for now. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## hamerfan (Apr 24, 2011)

This sounds intriguing. Page turn buttons would be great. The one part that gives me hesitation concerns the ambient light sensor:

"Rounding out the features of the next Kindle Paperwhite is an ambient light sensor that will take readings of the light in the room and adjust the screen brightness to compensate. On the prototype that we saw the light sensor was faintly visible behind the black bezel in the upper corner of the unit. The system gradually adjusts light in timing with the way an average person’s retina expands or contracts in order to prevent jarring transitions."

I'd like to hope that there's a manual override that allows the user to set the light to their own personal liking.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I think the fact that it's being called a Paperwhite, which is a touch screen, confirms the touch screen. People have been asking for page turn buttons as well as touch turning for some time. I think if it weren't a touch screen, that would have been explicity pointed out. IMHO, of course.
> 
> Betsy


The article saying software remaining the same almost guarantees a touch screen. I doubt this is a new baby Kindle model and PW software demands a touch screen.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

hamerfan said:


> This sounds intriguing. Page turn buttons would be great. The one part that gives me hesitation concerns the ambient light sensor:
> 
> "Rounding out the features of the next Kindle Paperwhite is an ambient light sensor that will take readings of the light in the room and adjust the screen brightness to compensate. On the prototype that we saw the light sensor was faintly visible behind the black bezel in the upper corner of the unit. The system gradually adjusts light in timing with the way an average person's retina expands or contracts in order to prevent jarring transitions."
> 
> I'd like to hope that there's a manual override that allows the user to set the light to their own personal liking.


I'm sure there will be a off option.

But again, a light sensor, a very tabletty feature to have. They are making Kindle more and more a member of the Fire family.

It would not surprise me if this new PW3 is called just Kindle and the $69 model is discontinued. I'd love for them to update the $69 Kindle, but they don't seem to care much anymore.

Well, until they can sell PWs at $69, I guess the basic may stay in stock.


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

At what point does the constant refresh of devices start to work against companies?  I understand there are hardware upgrades and people want to get them out to consumers, but we are also on PlayStation 4, not PlayStation 24.  I know I hesitate to upgrade when there may be another upgrade in less than a year's time.  I've done multiple upgrades and honestly right now it would need to be something absolutely breakthrough for me to move up from my PW1.


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

*sigh*. Higher and higher resolutions wreck havoc with images (illustrations). Unless Amazon changes how they handle illustrations, a higher resolution means any illustrations included in the book will be smaller. This means I (as a publisher of illustrated books) need to include larger images, which means the file size will be larger and Amazon will charge a higher "delivery fee".

Something about this article makes me skeptical. It might be all true, but these things seem "off":


"We've seen a prototype of the device which has a front screen that is flush with the edges of the device, rather than recessed, and is made out of very matte glass of some sort, not plastic." - the kindle screens ARE glass. We've all seen pictures of broken ones to know that. Perhaps the author meant the _bezel _is glass instead of plastic? (I could be wrong - off to google some more. But it sure looks like glass under some protective layer, when you see a broken one) 
"The current Amazon Kindle Paperwhite features a 212 ppi screen that compares poorly to the Kobo Aura HD." I certainly wouldn't say the PW compares "poorly" to the Kobo. 
"We hear that there are no major software improvements planned for this edition, but that it will be upscaled to take advantage of the new resolution." - When has there ever been a new kindle with "NO" software changes/improvements? It just seems very unlikely.
"Amazon is working on new typography for the device with a custom-built font that's great for reading. Typography has long been one of the Kindle's big failing points. " - Wait, you just said "no major software improvements". A significant change to fonts would be considered a significant software change by most people. Also, the current font is already a custom Amazon font. Not many people think the Typography has been a big failing point. Sure, some people like to hack their kindle and add more, and sure I'd like more, but few would call it a "big failing point". At this point, while reading the article, I'm starting to feel it has a distinctive anti-kindle vibe.
"Though several fonts were added in its last release, they were not received overly well for the most part." - When did we get Palatino and the others? It certainly wan't the "last release" which was the PW2. I thought they were received fine, but most people preferred Caecila.
"awkward right hand margins", "change pages without having to awkwardly reach over with your thumb" - again, they seem to find a lot more problems with kindle than most people.
Power button on the back? That wouldn't work with the covers Amazon has sold since the PW1 came out.

Maybe this article is spot on. But it just comes across as a little "off" to me.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

This is so exciting!  Amazon is listening!  My thumb will be very happy.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> *sigh*. Higher and higher resolutions wreck havoc with images (illustrations). Unless Amazon changes how they handle illustrations, a higher resolution means any illustrations included in the book will be smaller. This means I (as a publisher of illustrated books) need to include larger images, which means the file size will be larger and Amazon will charge a higher "delivery fee".
> 
> Something about this article makes me skeptical. It might be all true, but these things seem "off":
> 
> ...


A couple of points...personally I wouldn't count a new font choice or new fonts overall, for that matter, as a software change. They're fonts. But maybe that's just me.

I will say that we have had a significant number of members complain about fonts and I've heard members say they wouldn't upgrade their Kindles unless a font hack was available. Not me. But again, maybe I'm in the vast minority.

Power button on the back--that's another "tabletty" feature consistent with their Fires. And Amazon doesn't mind selling new covers, so I don't see a problem there.

And we do get members complaining about having to reach with their thumbs to turn the page. It's been enough for me to notice them.

I think these early speculations are in general a little dubious, but that's because they're generally very early. The comments by the reviewers don't bother me that much.

Betsy


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## J_T (May 16, 2011)

Glad I held on to my PW1, although honestly the new features for PW3 doesn't sound all that enticing. Amazon needs to do something new, not just catch up with Kobo.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

From my perspective, they're way ahead of Kobo in terms of service and content.

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

I've been tempted by the PW2 just because it again allows you to move from chapter to chapter without the tedious going to the TOC for each move, but this report means I'll wait and see. If the chapter to chapter feature is retained with buttons for page turning, I'll be part of the first mad rush for a new one. In the meantime, just the report keeps me from spending money I don't need to spend right now.


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

That's my favorite feature & that I can tap the bookmark in the page & tap on any of the other bookmarks to go to that page. I use that feature everyday, in 1 of the books that I'm reading. If you were to just read fiction, then maybe you would not miss that feature. Or, in the PW1, I just use the "go to" feature to get back to the beginning of the chapter, as long as you have a book that has a Table of Contents. I find the bookmark feature faster.


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## mikeschr (Dec 7, 2010)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> And we do get members complaining about having to reach with their thumbs to turn the page. It's been enough for me to notice them...
> 
> Betsy


I've never understood that complaint. No one has ever had to reach across the screen to turn the page on the Touch or PW - you can swipe anywhere on the screen, plus if you swipe, you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting a link or footnote. I'd be curious to know why people keep saying this.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

mikeschr said:


> I've never understood that complaint. No one has ever had to reach across the screen to turn the page on the Touch or PW - you can swipe anywhere on the screen, plus if you swipe, you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting a link or footnote. I'd be curious to know why people keep saying this.


I have to move my thumb joint away from the frame and onto the screen. Swiping each page in addition to that moves that joint again. And again and again. With the buttons, it only takes a small downward press. No movement of the joint. For me it gets uncomfortable after a while. I also have small hands and by moving away from the frame one of my holding fingers, I can lose control of my grip. None of that is any issue with the K3 for example with the button right under the thumb.

And if you hold it in your left hand, then you have to reach over from the frame even further because of the area of back paging.

And that is why I keep saying it.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

mikeschr said:


> I've never understood that complaint. No one has ever had to reach across the screen to turn the page on the Touch or PW - you can swipe anywhere on the screen, plus if you swipe, you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting a link or footnote. I'd be curious to know why people keep saying this.


In my case - after spending 35+ years working on a computer at work, my right thumb only makes about a 45 degree angle from my hand. Any further is painful. So I have given up trying to turn pages while holding my PW2 in my right hand. My left thumb is more flexible - but my hands are small - so I keep going backwards. The only thing that works for me is to hold the PW in one hand and use the other to tap the screen. Which I've adjusted to - but not the way I used to read my K3.


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## mikeschr (Dec 7, 2010)

Atunah said:


> I have to move my thumb joint away from the frame and onto the screen. Swiping each page in addition to that moves that joint again. And again and again. With the buttons, it only takes a small downward press. No movement of the joint. For me it gets uncomfortable after a while. I also have small hands and by moving away from the frame one of my holding fingers, I can lose control of my grip. None of that is any issue with the K3 for example with the button right under the thumb.
> 
> And if you hold it in your left hand, then you have to reach over from the frame even further because of the area of back paging.
> 
> And that is why I keep saying it.


Okay, I understand now. Sorry for those of you who are having physical difficulty.


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## PhillyGuy (Dec 18, 2010)

FearIndex said:


> Yes, it seems e-ink Kindles are moving more and more towards the tablet type of experience and further away from their book-replicating e-ink roots.


Maybe. But the original Kindle plays music and lets you read any text based web site from almost anywhere in the US, with the Kindle 2 and 3 even better in those regards..

So, in some ways, they are making them more book-centric.

As for glass vs. plastic, the downfall of these devices for a clumsy oak like me is screen cracking (although, touch wood, I seem to be improving). So if the glass is stronger than the plastic -- that's a plus.

In general, if you take away as many features as you add, that's not what I call an improvement.


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## BradW (Sep 6, 2012)

squeezable rubber buttons?  I hope they're not like the squeezable buttons on the Nook Simpletouch.  I hate those.


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

Geez, can't they just put regular page turn buttons on the darn thing??

And a progress bar!


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## el.jeffe58 (Nov 10, 2013)

FearIndex said:


> One of the great benefits of e-ink, in my opinion, is that the text is on top of the screen - almost like printed on paper. The more stuff you add between yourself and the e-ink screen, the less it will look like a page from the book.


I was not aware this is how e-ink works. I love it looking like printed paper; makes all the difference to me.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

eljeffe58 said:


> > One of the great benefits of e-ink, in my opinion, is that the text is on top of the screen - almost like printed on paper. The more stuff you add between yourself and the e-ink screen, the less it will look like a page from the book.
> 
> 
> I was not aware this is how e-ink works. I love it looking like printed paper; makes all the difference to me.


Yep. Unfortunately this benefit is lost on the Paperwhite 1/2 and other front-lit, capacitive touch e-ink readers where the e-ink screen is behind light and/or touch layers.

"Pure" e-ink readers such as the $69 Kindle do show the text right there on top of the "page" aka screen, whereas on PWs the top of the screen is quite a bit above the text.

Drop some dust on a PW screen and a basic $69 Kindle screen and you'll notice the difference.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

mikeschr said:


> > And we do get members complaining about having to reach with their thumbs to turn the page. It's been enough for me to notice them...
> 
> 
> I've never understood that complaint. No one has ever had to reach across the screen to turn the page on the Touch or PW - you can swipe anywhere on the screen, plus if you swipe, you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting a link or footnote. I'd be curious to know why people keep saying this.


Well, be that as it may, swiping is not preferable for all - and unless you can just click the bezel or hover your finger over the screen while reading, one always has to reach towards the screen. Buttons or some other solution on the sides requires less reaching. That is a fact. Of course it is a personal preference whether or not it is an issue.

The other topic is, of course, it would be preferable to configure how the touch zones on a PW work. I find using PW on my left hand harder than e.g. $69 Kindle, which is very easy to use with either hand. PW is manageable, with the swipe option, but it is harder than with $69 Kindle that just has both buttons on both sides. No reaching towards the screen at all, just slight lift of finger when reading and a press when changing page.


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## backslidr (Nov 23, 2012)

I hope the new PW will have the page turn buttons since the article says it will also have a flush screen. Having used the smaller 6" Kobo Aura that does have the flush screen it is very easy to turn pages without meaning to. The buttons will help alleviate that. Other ereaders do have the ability to switch the screen for left handed people. That's been around for awhile now but Amazon still hasn't adopted it yet. Hopefully this time they will. A lot of people have been asking for it.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Don't understand why everyone swipes the screen to turn pages. All I ever do is tap on it lightly. No dramatic swipe needed.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

CS said:


> Don't understand why everyone swipes the screen to turn pages. All I ever do is tap on it lightly. No dramatic swipe needed.


Many people go one direction by tapping, but the other direction by swiping because tapping would require reaching too far on the screen.

The touch areas for tapping are not very flexible at all, especially when alternating between both hands.


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## wilsondm2 (Dec 8, 2008)

FearIndex said:


> Many people go one direction by tapping, but the other direction by swiping because tapping would require reaching too far on the screen.
> 
> The touch areas for tapping are not very flexible at all, especially when alternating between both hands.


I wish they would let us turn on or off the backspace area - and then just use the swipe to go back but any tap or forward swipe changes the page. would be so much easier when you have it in your left hand...


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

CS said:


> Don't understand why everyone swipes the screen to turn pages. All I ever do is tap on it lightly. No dramatic swipe needed.


Well for me, many times taps don't register. Don't know why I have that problem. Its not just the PW. I am touch screen challenged. I think its my fingertips. But both tapping and swiping still involves moving the finger over into the screen area. I am not left handed, but I have to change hands often while reading or my wrists start hurting. Its harder from the left.

What has helped me a bit was getting a cover with a backstrap. It has helped with not losing grip of the PW as I turn pages, but I still have the issue of the moving joint. Would be heaven with the hand strap and being able to keep the thumb on the bezel to change pages.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

CS said:


> Don't understand why everyone swipes the screen to turn pages. All I ever do is tap on it lightly. No dramatic swipe needed.


If I'm turning pages with my right thumb, I tap. If I'm using the left, I swipe with my thumb to page forward, because it puts my thumb over into the page-forward zone. I don't need to swipe then, but if I think "swipe" it puts my thumb in the right place. Often I end up just tapping, but thinking "swipe" puts me into the tap zone.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Atunah said:


> Well for me, many times taps don't register. Don't know why I have that problem. Its not just the PW. I am touch screen challenged. I think its my fingertips.


If my hands get really dry I do have issues with touch screens. It happens a lot more in the winter.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm one of those people who really hasn't missed using buttons for page changes - so I hope they keep the ability to use the screen as well as the new style buttons just in case - they sound strange!

I am interested to see they intend to improve the font range and I hope they include the ability to pick font weight as well as size as other readers do. Although I've always used the default caecilia which suits me just fine, I do think that on the PW screens, when used in a dark room with the front lit screen, there is a tendency for the text to get a slightly 'washed out' look and it becomes a balance between having it light enough and not having it so light it washes out the text. The ability to change the weight of the text would eliminate that I think.

The idea of a glass screen is a bit worrying as it automatically makes you think of reflection problems - something the e-ink kindles have always avoided - it's been a big selling point in fact. 

These rumours always start to build up a few months before release and it'll be interesting to see which ones actually come true.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Atunah said:


> Well for me, many times taps don't register. Don't know why I have that problem. Its not just the PW. I am touch screen challenged. I think its my fingertips. But both tapping and swiping still involves moving the finger over into the screen area. I am not left handed, but I have to change hands often while reading or my wrists start hurting. Its harder from the left.


Do you play an instrument or have long nails? Capacitive touch screens (such as that on the PW) depend on the skin basically transmitting electricity. If your fingertips are hardened by some routine or it is mostly a (long) fingernail that is touching the screen, that might explain trouble getting touch to register.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

My nails have always been short. I played guitar, but haven't in a long time. My tips don't feel sensitive, not much feeling in them maybe that is it. No clue. It amuses hubby when I try to use is ipad. He made my try all the different devices to see. I have way more issues on the ipad than on my fire though, go figure. 

But I will always miss that little click from the older kindles when changing pages. I have been waiting to see if the basic kindle will go on sale before xmas. I think I want one of those for daytime reading. The floating letters in milk on the PW are starting to bother me more. Not sure if its because its winter and has been darker so the light is more there. I only keep it at 5 at all times. If I put it any higher, it just looks like floating in milk and the letters start looking faded. Hard to explain. I just know that I am starting to notice the words floating more and I have had this PW for over a year. And when I notice that, I get thrown out of the story. I never noticed the device with my K1 or K3. Now I do. 

I really am concerned I am going to be left in the dust with all these gadgets going to tablet style. Nothing matters to me as much as readability. If I don't have a screen I am super happy with, any of the other enjoyable things like using the touch screen for collections and such don't really mean anything anymore.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Atunah said:


> I really am concerned I am going to be left in the dust with all these gadgets going to tablet style. Nothing matters to me as much as readability. If I don't have a screen I am super happy with, any of the other enjoyable things like using the touch screen for collections and such don't really mean anything anymore.


If it helps at all, you are not alone in your feelings.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

Meemo said:


> If my hands get really dry I do have issues with touch screens. It happens a lot more in the winter.


My problem with touch screens (phone, Fire, PW, etc.) is that my hand are ALWAYS cold and the touch screens do not respond to my finger touches, or even swipes. I liked the KTouch as I didn't have that problem with the Touch.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Tatiana said:


> My problem with touch screens (phone, Fire, PW, etc.) is that my hand are ALWAYS cold and the touch screens do not respond to my finger touches, or even swipes. I liked the KTouch as I didn't have that problem with the Touch.


Makes sense. Cold fingers (less blood circulation) probably transfer electricity (or more precisely create variances in the screen capacitance) worse than warm fingers, which interferes with capacitive touchscreens.

Kindle Touch uses infrared touch, so it wouldn't be interfered by such things - Touch "looks" at your fingers, instead PW's (or that of most smartphones) capacitive touchscreen "feels" them.


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

I just got the K5, the basic kindle Best Buy online during the Black Friday's deal for $49. It is better than the K4. Text iis darker & the screen is whiter.


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## JHolmesJr (Sep 13, 2010)

Have been contemplating a PW on and off, so Im glad I came across this before getting the current generation PW2.

My Kindle Keyboard works flawlessly but Im intrigued by the 'whiteness' of the PW series. Does it really make reading so much better?

In any case, I'll wait to see what the PW3 has to offer. I actually prefer a slightly recessed screen, as I feel that offers some measure of protection....a flush screen like the PW3 is said to have will probably be more susceptible to a careless bump or scratch. The page turning button sounds like a good addition as I don't care much for touch screens.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Tatiana said:


> My problem with touch screens (phone, Fire, PW, etc.) is that my hand are ALWAYS cold and the touch screens do not respond to my finger touches, or even swipes. I liked the KTouch as I didn't have that problem with the Touch.


cold hands are probably dryer than warm ones, and that makes a difference. moisturize your hands and see if that helps.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 4


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

JHolmesJr said:


> Have been contemplating a PW on and off, so Im glad I came across this before getting the current generation PW2.
> 
> My Kindle Keyboard works flawlessly but Im intrigued by the 'whiteness' of the PW series. Does it really make reading so much better?
> 
> In any case, I'll wait to see what the PW3 has to offer. I actually prefer a slightly recessed screen, as I feel that offers some measure of protection....a flush screen like the PW3 is said to have will probably be more susceptible to a careless bump or scratch. The page turning button sounds like a good addition as I don't care much for touch screens.


I think the contrast on the PW is much better than on the Keyboard . . . . but less noticeable if you're in a bright setting. Where it really shines, pardon the pun, is when the ambient lighting is o.k. but not great.

As to the touch screen -- it's not at all the same experience as you have with a tablet, phone, or other 'shiny' screen device. The texture of the screen kind of feels more like a piece of paper and fingerprints and smudges don't really show at all.

I'd certainly advise a case or cover for when you are not actively reading . . . . .


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## MulliganAl (Nov 11, 2010)

Not sure how reliable this is but it looks like the new Kindle paperwhite will be released in India next month.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/tablets/news/new-kindle-paperwhite-models-now-available-on-amazon-india-shipping-february-4-471226


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## BruceS (Feb 7, 2009)

MulliganAl said:


> Not sure how reliable this is but it looks like the new Kindle paperwhite will be released in India next month.
> 
> http://gadgets.ndtv.com/tablets/news/new-kindle-paperwhite-models-now-available-on-amazon-india-shipping-february-4-471226


This is the PW2, that was released in the US last September.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

MulliganAl said:


> Not sure how reliable this is but it looks like the new Kindle paperwhite will be released in India next month.
> 
> http://gadgets.ndtv.com/tablets/news/new-kindle-paperwhite-models-now-available-on-amazon-india-shipping-february-4-471226


Remember, all this stuff is rumor. And not confirmed by anyone from Amazon.com. For myself, I wouldn't make a buy or not buy decision based on it.


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## MulliganAl (Nov 11, 2010)

BruceS said:


> This is the PW2, that was released in the US last September.


That's very strange because it was just posted on January 15, 2014.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Quote from: Tatiana on December 08, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
> My problem with touch screens (phone, Fire, PW, etc.) is that my hand are ALWAYS cold and the touch screens do not respond to my finger touches, or even swipes. I liked the KTouch as I didn't have that problem with the Touch.
> 
> cold hands are probably dryer than warm ones, and that makes a difference. moisturize your hands and see if that helps.
> ...


Thanks, Betsy, I wish moisturizing helped, I moisturize a lot and it is of no help. In the winter my hands are always cold...think ice cubes. I found that a stylus is the only thing that works well on touch screens when my hands are so cold  I do miss my Touch...it never mattered if my hands were cold.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Tatiana said:


> Thanks, Betsy, I wish moisturizing helped, I moisturize a lot and it is of no help. In the winter my hands are always cold...think ice cubes. I found that a stylus is the only thing that works well on touch screens when my hands are so cold  I do miss my Touch...it never mattered if my hands were cold.


Yes, the Touch used aninfrared overlay; anything that broke the plane read as a touch. People turned pages with their sleeves, and one member here reported having a fly land on their Touch turned the page. I'm sure that's why Amazon changed the type of touch screen to capacitive.

You might try actually dampening your finger and see if it helps?

Betsy


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Tatiana said:


> Thanks, Betsy, I wish moisturizing helped, I moisturize a lot and it is of no help. In the winter my hands are always cold...think ice cubes. I found that a stylus is the only thing that works well on touch screens when my hands are so cold  I do miss my Touch...it never mattered if my hands were cold.


You are not the only one that has issues with the touch screens. My hands are dry, cold and it doesn't matter if I slather my hands in a bucket of coconut oil. Even if my hands are not cold like in summer, same issues. I often have to peck 2-3 times to make something happen. Its on all touch screens for me. I just resigned myself to the fact that touch screens and my don't always get along. I can make them work, but they annoy me. 
I bought a basic kindle and I am happy to have my page buttons back. And my nice contrast.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

Atunah said:


> You are not the only one that has issues with the touch screens. My hands are dry, cold and it doesn't matter if I slather my hands in a bucket of coconut oil. Even if my hands are not cold like in summer, same issues. I often have to peck 2-3 times to make something happen. Its on all touch screens for me. I just resigned myself to the fact that touch screens and my don't always get along. I can make them work, but they annoy me.
> I bought a basic kindle and I am happy to have my page buttons back. And my nice contrast.


It is the exact same way for me, Atunah. Even in the summer my hands are cold, tho' not ice cube cold like in the winter, and I have difficulty with ALL my touch screen devices...phone, tablet, Kindles (eInk and Fire). I've dampened my finger and it doesn't help. Once I rested a finger against the hot oil space heater for a couple of minutes then turned the pages on my PW1 and it worked very well...until my finger returned to its ice cube state.  I'm resigned to it now.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I don't have problems with dry fingers at all, but I do have problems with fat fingers and getting the exact right spot in some cases. I seem to have more trouble selecting text accurately on the PW2 than on the PW1. Probably my imagination, but it sure is annoying!

7 inch tablets are the worst of all of course. Accurate touching is the one thing that I dislike about using my 7 inch HDX, though it's not really the device's fault. Just inherent in the size.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

MulliganAl said:


> That's very strange because it was just posted on January 15, 2014.


Still, I think Bruce might be right -- it wouldn't be surprising to learn that the 2nd gen device, released in the US in September, is now being announced as being released in India in a month or so. (Just read the article -- yes, that's basically what it says.)

I know there have frequently been posters here from the UK lamenting that they have sometimes not gotten the new models until a few months later. So the point is it's NEW for the Indian market, even if it has been sold for some months here.


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## KyahCA (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm not so interested about this new PW. A glass screen? I'm not sure how that will turn out. I enjoy the minimal design of my PW1, and I like being able to simply tap the screen in order to flip the page.


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## kdawna (Feb 16, 2009)

I wanted a paper white 3G, but they are out of them. I wonder when the new models will be out?
I am impatient......


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

kdawna said:


> I wanted a paper white 3G, but they are out of them. I wonder when the new models will be out?
> I am impatient......


If you're willing to pay extra to have it without Special Offers, they are available now.


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## Marie Long (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm curious. Does the current Paperwhite have the same kind of screen like the original Kindle? The ones that won't show your fingerprints when you touch it?


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Yes Marie - I have to really look for fingerprints on my Paperwhite. But I have to say I'd think long and hard before buying another new Kindle because of the update for Cloud Collections, especially an even more expensive one. I loved my PW2 until that update - now I still love it for reading, but it's really aggravating to go to the Home Page and navigate around the mess they've made of that.


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

It's true that the PW2 SCREEN doesn't show fingerprints.  But the rest of it shows them the worst of any Kindle I've owned.  I love my PW2, but the constant fingerprints around the edges and on the back drive me crazy!


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## teralpar (May 18, 2010)

lindnet said:


> It's true that the PW2 SCREEN doesn't show fingerprints. But the rest of it shows them the worst of any Kindle I've owned. I love my PW2, but the constant fingerprints around the edges and on the back drive me crazy!


The fingerprints on the black border around the screen drove me crazy, so I ended up buying a black skin for it. Problem solved!


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

teralpar said:


> The fingerprints on the black border around the screen drove me crazy, so I ended up buying a black skin for it. Problem solved!


Oooh, good idea! I just might do that!


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## jlee745 (Jul 27, 2010)

I like that Idea!!! I thought about a skin but thought it might be to distracting. Thank you so much. Hate fingerprints.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't get that many fingerprints on the bezel, probably because of my dried-up geezer hands.    But I did still consider getting the black woodgrain DecalGirl skin for my PW2, just because I had one on a Sony reader and liked it. I'd totally get the Flamingo skin if we could add our own screensavers - had it on my Nook Simple Touch and really really loved that skin.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I always had the matte black woodgrain on my kindle keyboard to cover up some crack in the bezel. My basic kindle shows the same prints and everything as my paperwhite. They seem to be about the same in the materials there I guess. 

I just have a hard time justifying that money for a skin when its such a narrow strip really that is used. Just seems expensive for the basic at least. I'd be paying half of what I paid for the basic just to put a skin on it. 

I have been keeping a eyeglass cleaning cloth near my reading table and I constantly wipe wipe with it. I swear, my hands and fingers are drier than the desert and yet, every time I put my paws on it, I have prints all over. 
CSI wouldn't even have to get near it, they could just scan my prints from 5 feet away they are so obvious.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah, prints on the bezel don't bother me.  Easy to wipe 'em off.  Screen is no problem -- almost never anything noticable


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Same here Ann - if I do see them I just give it a quick wipe on my t-shirt or pants.


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

Atunah said:


> My basic kindle shows the same prints and everything as my paperwhite. They seem to be about the same in the materials there I guess.


That must be the black basic Kindle? I have the gray one and I wish they had stuck with that material. It never shows prints.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

lindnet said:


> That must be the black basic Kindle? I have the gray one and I wish they had stuck with that material. It never shows prints.


Yes, I have the black one. I prefer the black, I think it gives better contrast maybe? Not sure. But the K3 was black, or maybe a almost black? I don't recall fingerprints on its bezel. I only put on the skin for the crack on it, not for prints.

I am just trying not to notice the prints anymore. Its so dry and cold right now here that I have to use a lot of creams to make my fingers move without a lot of pain, so there will be even more prints. I usually only notice them when I first pick up the kindle or when I see it laying around. Just one of those things. I think they could have made it black with just some different material. They need some print testers.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

I prefer the black too, but man, the fingerprints on the bezel drive me batty indeed. I've matte skinned every Kindle prior to this one (all my iThings too), but I haven't found a skin I want this time. Meanwhile I swear I must be the most oily-handed person on earth--which is crazy, because I have an illness that severely dries out the skin. So I don't know where these prints keep coming from!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

My PW2 has a black bezel?  LOL!

Betsy


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

I think the PaperWhite is definitely worth the money.  I upgraded from a Kindle Touch to a PaperWhite 1 because I thought it was a big enough improvement to justify it.  I definitely like being able to adjust the light to my conditions and not have to add the weight of a book light when reading.


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## Susan J (May 14, 2010)

I love my PW2.  That being said, I was just thinking, as I was reading wearing my fingerless gloves, what option I would really like to see on the next generation.  It would be perfect for me if there was a voice option to just say "Page" and have it turn automatically.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

LaraAmber said:


> I think the PaperWhite is definitely worth the money. I upgraded from a Kindle Touch to a PaperWhite 1 because I thought it was a big enough improvement to justify it. I definitely like being able to adjust the light to my conditions and not have to add the weight of a book light when reading.


Thanks for the assurance. I did forget to ask (and can't find info on it elsewhere,) but is it possible to invert the color profile? Such as white text on black background or light grey on dark grey? I know it's possible using the Kindle Reader on Windows... but wasn't sure if it's possible on the PW2/PW1.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

AA2014 said:


> Thanks for the assurance. I did forget to ask (and can't find info on it elsewhere,) but is it possible to invert the color profile? Such as white text on black background or light grey on dark grey? I know it's possible using the Kindle Reader on Windows... but wasn't sure if it's possible on the PW2/PW1.


No. The eInk devices are black on white. With the paperwhite you can adjust the lighting to the level that's best for you given ambient conditions. And there are a half dozen or so different typefaces to choose -- so pick the one you can read most clearly. Remember, it's a completely different technology than computer screens, tablets, or phones.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Ann in Arlington said:


> No. The eInk devices are black on white. With the paperwhite you can adjust the lighting to the level that's best for you given ambient conditions. And there are a half dozen or so different typefaces to choose -- so pick the one you can read most clearly. Remember, it's a completely different technology than computer screens, tablets, or phones.


That sounds rather good, Ann. I'll likely be ordering sometime next week. A small birthday gift to myself.  I've read books on tablets, and while the glare can be an issue, the weight can also be another. Not to mention the low battery life.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Battery life is definitely better with eInk -- measured in days rather than hours. And the screen is much more like a book page than a computer screen.

Mind you, the whole point of this thread is that there are _rumors_ of a new model to be released sometime this spring. Not saying that means you should definitely wait, of course. Historically these sorts of rumors, though fairly not specific, are based in something that is actually true.


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## Marie Long (Jan 11, 2014)

I'll probably wait before I buy a new PW if there is talk of a new one coming out this spring. I do like my kindle keyboard version, though. But I do most of my reading in the dark in bed, so a PW might be good. My eyes tend to hurt when I try to read in the dark with my Fire or on my iPod.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Battery life is definitely better with eInk -- measured in days rather than hours. And the screen is much more like a book page than a computer screen.
> 
> Mind you, the whole point of this thread is that there are _rumors_ of a new model to be released sometime this spring. Not saying that means you should definitely wait, of course. Historically these sorts of rumors, though fairly not specific, are based in something that is actually true.


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## Ephany (Mar 9, 2009)

I'm considering a new paperwhite to replace my poor, dead KK but now it's saying it's a 7-9 week wait. I'm hoping that means that the rumors are true. My mom keeps trying to buy me one as an early graduation present, but I'm really hoping for a new version.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

As I understand it, Amazon's theory is there's no need for an external media slot when ALL your books can be accessed pretty much any where any time with the cloud storage.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm with Ann, SD cards are more and more becoming a thing of the past in all devices, not just Kindles. Eliminating it makes the device more compact, and for some products, allows the manufacturers who to charge premium prices to customers who want a larger amount of RAM. I dislike the trend, but it seems to be the wave of the future.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> They're assuming that we'd never buy a book from anywhere else in an acceptable format, that we like paying transfer fees to mail items to our kindle or that we like having to carry a cord and a computer to load digital content of our own, and that the cloud has (and always will have) a 100% uptime.
> 
> I realize you're just explaining their position Ann, I'm not arguing with you. I wish I could argue with Jeff Bezos, though.


I've never paid a transfer fee to get anything on my kindle. Even when there were not WiFi kindles. I am in the US; not sure if that makes a difference.

I've never had to carry a cord and computer to load digital content of my own. I rarely feel the need to go searching for digital content when out and about -- I usually have sufficient titles on my device already. When traveling I have a computer or tablet with me anyway and I don't have to carry anything extra to be able to load content on to the kindle if I want to.

I have loaded my own content. It has to be digital to get it on the kindle of course, which pretty much means it has to START on a computer, but it's perfectly easy to send it to the kindle wirelessly. It is true that I have to send it from an approved email address or from a computer that has a Send to Kindle app registered to my account.

Wait, though -- come to think of it, I believe there are some sites from which you can directly download at least to the Fire and possibly to an eInk device -- does require a wifi connection, but not a wire and a computer.  I'm pretty sure I did that once or twice when I still had a first generation device -- so back in 2008 or '09.

I've only extremely rarely not been able to d/l a book I already owned immediately from the cloud when I wanted to. And if it did, the 'down time' was only a few minutes -- and possibly as much the fault of my systems as problems at Amazon's end.



The Hooded Claw said:


> I'm with Ann, SD cards are more and more becoming a thing of the past in all devices, not just Kindles. Eliminating it makes the device more compact, and for some products, allows the manufacturers who to charge premium prices to customers who want a larger amount of RAM. I dislike the trend, but it seems to be the wave of the future.


That's true -- my husband was cleaning out a briefcase the other day and found several SD cards and realized that we had no need for any of them. We have a couple of cameras that each have a card, but we don't really need spares because we can move the pictures to a computer if we need to. And 'the cloud' is pretty much where it's at with almost all new devices.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> They're assuming that we'd never buy a book from anywhere else in an acceptable format, that we like paying transfer fees to mail items to our kindle or that we like having to carry a cord and a computer to load digital content of our own, and that the cloud has (and always will have) a 100% uptime.
> 
> I realize you're just explaining their position Ann, I'm not arguing with you. I wish I could argue with Jeff Bezos, though.


I've also never paid a transfer fee. If you don't want to send them to Amazon's cloud, you can always use Dropbox. I have all my non-Amazon books in a Dropbox library do I can access it directly from my Kindle Browser. Once I click on the book I want, it downloads directly to my kindle. No cords, no fees, no nuthin'.

The original Kindle did have an a SD slot. It caused quite a bit of crashes and freezing and general sluggishness on the device. It's one of the reasons they took it out.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> They're assuming that we'd never buy a book from anywhere else in an acceptable format, that we like paying transfer fees to mail items to our kindle or that we like having to carry a cord and a computer to load digital content of our own, and that the cloud has (and always will have) a 100% uptime.
> 
> I realize you're just explaining their position Ann, I'm not arguing with you. I wish I could argue with Jeff Bezos, though.


Easy enough to avoid the fees for emailing to the device or the USB cable - use the "Send to Kindle" app and send things free.  Or put your non-Amazon content in Calibre, put your Calibre library in Dropbox (or some similar service) and access it via wifi anytime. It's lovely. Or like Heather says - skip Calibre, just put the books in a folder in Dropbox.

I had a Nook Simple Touch - tried using the microSD card, but it was a pain. Then again, it was a Nook & lots of things were a pain on it. The original Kindle didn't differentiate between SD card content and Amazon content. (Did it It's been a while...)


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

On the original kindle you could view sd card content separately from device content.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> On the original kindle you could view sd card content separately from device content.


You could, but you didn't have to did you? You could look at Archives and see both Amazon stuff and the card, right? But if you looked at the Home Page you saw the docs that were on the card as well as your Amazon content? Or am I mis-remembering? I seem to remember joking about how Kindle didn't "segregate" books from the card from the Amazon content like the Nook did.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> Quite a few of you have recommended using Dropbox...
> This is a *FANTASTIC* idea. I can even do that on my old K2 with the funky browser.
> *THANK YOU!!*
> 
> ...


I'm aware that Amazon is _*supposed*_ to charge fees, but I can honestly say that in all the years I've owned a Kindle (and I bought one of the original Kindles before Oprah made them popular) I have NEVER been charged a fee for sending my documents over whispernet. And trust me, I've emailed hundreds of documents to my device over the years.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Meemo said:


> You could, but you didn't have to did you? You could look at Archives and see both Amazon stuff and the card, right? But if you looked at the Home Page you saw the docs that were on the card as well as your Amazon content? Or am I mis-remembering? I seem to remember joking about how Kindle didn't "segregate" books from the card from the Amazon content like the Nook did.


Correct. There was a 'content manager' and you could see everything at once. OR you could see just what was in device memory or just what was on the card memory. And, if connected, you could see what was in neither place -- i.e. "in the cloud" though they didn't call it that. They called it your archive.

Note that the card and internal memory weren't 'other' and 'amazon'. You could put content from either source either place. And move it back and forth from within the 'content manager'. It was _purely_ a way to extend the memory. But it wasn't like you could 'hot swap' the cards to get a different library. Obviously you _could_ switch cards, but as it required turning the machine off, removing the back, replacing the cad, putting it back together, and then turning it on again, it wasn't exactly a quick process. I believe many of the problems folks had stemmed from thinking they could switch out cards without turning the thing off. Amazon decided they could save some 'oh no what have I done?' customer service calls by just removing the card slot all together -- which they did with the 2nd generation device.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> It seems that some of you don't realize that Zon charges for documents sent to your Kindle via email over Whispernet.
> Visit this page to see the outline of the fees:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_pdoc_main_short_us?nodeId=200767340


Like Heather, I am completely aware of that. I, too, had a kindle before kindles were cool. 

BUT.

Early on, even though those fees were part of the terms of service, they didn't charge them. They BEGAN charging for delivery over 3G -- for non-amazon content -- once they released devices with WiFi. But it's Very Easy to avoid even an accidental charge:

Go to Manage Your Kindle and click the Personal Document Settings section. There you can set 'Whispernet Delivery Options'. You'll see a 'maximum charge limit'. It defaults to a couple of bucks but you can edit it -- all the way to the right. If you set it to ZERO then you will never get a charge.

If you try to send a personal doc while out of the range of a wifi network (even if you have a device with 3G) you'll get a notice that it will be delivered next time you are on wifi.

Further, with Send to Kindle, when you send a document you tell it how to send. Yes, it says if you go via 3G charges may apply. But if you send via WiFi they will NOT and, once it's in your archive, you can send it to a non-wifi device without being charged.

I suppose if you are frequently in the situation where you have personal docs that you HAVE to get on the device while you're not in range of a wifi network, you'd need to keep a larger number there. And, yes, then, they would go ahead and send via 3G immediately when requested, and, presumably charge you. But that's NEVER been a situation I've been in. When I know I'll need personal docs, I just send them from home where I have a network. OR, use my smartphone to set up a local wifi if necessary.

Honestly, the ONLY time I've transferred things to my kindle via a physical connection is once with my 1st gen device just to see how it worked so I could explain the process to folks here and when I've been impatient for an update to a device and didn't want to wait for it to come automatically.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> They're assuming that we'd never buy a book from anywhere else in an acceptable format, that we like paying transfer fees to mail items to our kindle or that we like having to carry a cord and a computer to load digital content of our own, and that the cloud has (and always will have) a 100% uptime.
> 
> I realize you're just explaining their position Ann, I'm not arguing with you. I wish I could argue with Jeff Bezos, though.


I buy books from non Amazon sources all the time. I have them emailed into Amazon, and they then appear in my cloud. Never has a charge. I like having all my books in the cloud, no matter where they came from. It is interesting that of the 1400 or so books I have, there were a handful (maybe 2 or 3) that I just couldn't get to take in the cloud. They were .prc books, and I have saved them on my computer.

Steve


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

stevene9 said:


> I buy books from non Amazon sources all the time. I have them emailed into Amazon, and they then appear in my cloud. Never has a charge. I like having all my books in the cloud, no matter where they came from. It is interesting that of the 1400 or so books I have, there were a handful (maybe 2 or 3) that I just couldn't get to take in the cloud. They were .prc books, and I have saved them on my computer.
> 
> Steve


I've sent .prc documents. Do you use the Send to Kindle applet? I suppose it's possible there's DRM on 'em, but I wouldn't think they'd work by loading from the computer then, either.


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## Trophywife007 (Aug 31, 2009)

Can I access dropbox from my PW2 or is that only for Fire?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Trophywife007 said:


> Can I access dropbox from my PW2 or is that only for Fire?


You'd have to do it from the browser -- so it will not be super fast -- but I think it will work from an eInk device. It's a bit easier on a Fire as there's a dedicated app.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Trophywife007 said:


> Can I access dropbox from my PW2 or is that only for Fire?


You sure can. Like Ann said, not fast, but it can be done.

Dropbox is one of those things I don't know how I lived without.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

SD Cards are for storage, RAM is for temporary storage. SD Cards, at least in the technology field, are not going away anytime soon. It's cheaper to design a new infrastructure on a small card to increase memory capacity and speed then it is for R&D on stuff like SSD, making each chip smaller and thinner in profile while increasing capacity and speed. SD Cards still rule more flexible devices like cameras, phones, on the go data because USB flash drives are more susceptible to corruption, etc. 


Source: Computer engineer


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

I go back and forth on wanting an SD slot--I'm a "keep everything on the Kindle" type, and have just a scant handful of books that are archived in Amazon's cloud. Oddly enough, when reading on the iThings, only the current book is downloaded, but each generation of e-ink Kindles I've had, I've insisted on having nearly all of my library on board. Eventually, I'm going to run out of space if they keep making the memory on these devices smaller, and that makes an SD card more appealing. I can't see Amazon adding one though. 

I've emailed plenty of docs to the cloud over the years and never been charged. I've also manually sideloaded via cable. But the convenience factor of wireless access to new books was one of the strong selling points of the Kindle for me, so a cabled "solution" isn't my preference either. I just wish they'd go back to larger capacity on their e-ink Kindles, even if it was optional--I'd willingly pay for more on board storage when I upgraded devices, as I sometimes have to do with new generation iPhones and iPads.

RE: the fingerprint issue discussed a page back...I finally caved and bought the matte-finish black woodgrain skin from DecalGirl. No more fingerprints on the bezel of my PW2! Such a small thing, really, but it definitely enhances my enjoyment of my PW.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Drew Gideon said:


> Quite a few of you have recommended using Dropbox...
> This is a *FANTASTIC* idea. I can even do that on my old K2 with the funky browser.
> *THANK YOU!!*
> 
> ...


Oh I'm aware - I think I might've even paid a dollar or two back in the day. The day before wifi, that is. If you use the 3G to download a book you've sent you can be charged. (They didn't change for a long time even though they could.) But if you use wifi to download, there's no charge.

No one was denying that there can be charges - just that the charges can be avoided. But of course if you're using a K1 or a K2, you won't have the wifi option. That's when the USB option comes in, which really is no more inconvenient than an SD card.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Meemo said:


> No one was denying that there can be charges - just that the charges can be avoided. But of course if you're using a K1 or a K2, you won't have the wifi option. That's when the USB option comes in, which really is no more inconvenient than an SD card.


I'd have to disagree with the last sentence. Assuming no wifi available, so using Amazon's cloud or Dropbox isn't an option, at a minimum sideloading via cable requires that I carry a cable and a laptop with me wherever I go. That's a far cry from carrying a tiny SD card, or even multiple SD cards. And I never travel with a laptop nowadays, that's what tablets are for. Even at home, I so rarely use the laptop that I have to fetch it from the other end of the house. LOL

Obviously, the lack of an SD card slot isn't a dealbreaker for me, since I've owned three Kindles without them. But I can definitely see the appeal of having one available.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> I'd have to disagree with the last sentence. Assuming no wifi available, so using Amazon's cloud or Dropbox isn't an option, at a minimum sideloading via cable requires that I carry a cable and a laptop with me wherever I go. That's a far cry from carrying a tiny SD card, or even multiple SD cards. And I never travel with a laptop nowadays, that's what tablets are for. Even at home, I so rarely use the laptop that I have to fetch it from the other end of the house. LOL
> 
> Obviously, the lack of an SD card slot isn't a dealbreaker for me, since I've owned three Kindles without them. But I can definitely see the appeal of having one available.


True, but I'm thinking more about the actual initial transfer of books - if I'm using an SD card (and I have on the K1 and the Nook) I still have to get those books on the card. Some folks did use different cards for different genres (since the K1 was pre-Collections) but others didn't use multiple cards. That card lived on the reader. I still had to either connect the reader to the computer to move books, even to the card, or I had to take the card out and connect it to the computer. Of course maybe other folks to carry around multiple cards for their Nooks or other readers - I do have a couple I use for audiobooks, but that was because I was too cheap to spring for one bigger one when I had two smaller ones sitting unused. ;-)

For expanding memory, they're great. But the books have to get on the card somehow, and that was the convenience comparison I was thinking about.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Ideally a manufacturer would use the card as add on storage instead of primary storage. Meaning anything past the 2 GB a Kindle would offer, the owner can pop in a 2-64 GB SD/mSD card in and the extra data will spill over to the card, but show as one when the owner would connect their Kindle to their PC or Mac via USB. Pretty much the industry standard.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Has anyone tried one of these little beauties with a Paperwhite? I have one for my Kindle Fire and think it's a great alternative to loading everything on my device:



I bought the least expensive one and put my own 64 gb micro SD card in it.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

HappyGuy said:


> Has anyone tried one of these little beauties with a Paperwhite? I have one for my Kindle Fire and think it's a great alternative to loading everything on my device:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought the least expensive one and put my own 64 gb micro SD card in it.


Is that one of those wireless drives? Didn't you need to load some app to get the Fire to talk to it? If so, I don't think it's going to work with an eInk device because there's probably no app and, even if there is, I don't think you could get it on the kindle with out doing things that are definitely against ToS. If at all. It wouldn't, I think, simply show up as a 'network'.


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## backslidr (Nov 23, 2012)

The sd card on my K1 worked very good. The one on my Nook Simple Touch was always a pain. Half the time it worked and half the time it would tell me it was damaged and needed to be reformatted. Haven't tried to use the one on my Kobo yet because it has 4GB like the K3 and Touch had. I would like to see an sd card on the next Kindle, but I would at least like to see them go back to 4 GB.


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