# Canadians in the house - why doesn't payout and exchange rate match??



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Every single month, I put the info from the KDP report into my own spreadsheet. On the day of payout, I put the current exchange rate into my formula so I will supposedly know the correct amount in Canadian that will be going into my bank account. I even use the cash rate which is less friendly. I've confirmed with my bank that it doesn't do the exchange - Amazon does it and sends the amount in Canadian dollars to my bank.

So why the heck do the amounts never match up?? And of course, it's always in Amazon's favour. I'm always at least $100 under - and that's using the cash rate. If I use the day's simple exchange rate, then it's closer to $300. I've contacted Amazon before, but they didn't - or wouldn't - say what exchange rate they use.

Has anyone else encountered this?


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Bumping this for the afternoon crowd!


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Is it really the exchange rate or is it some direct deposit fee that your bank (or Amazon) is hitting you with? Also, I've had similar things happen using my debit card cross-border shopping. The daily exchange rate online isn't always the daily exchange rate the bank applies. And it's always in their favour.  

If it helps, I opened a US account through RBC Bank (Georgia) back in 2012 before they started offering direct deposit outside the US and haven't bothered to switch. I've been hanging onto my last few payments in case the CDN dollar drops a bit more. More money is never a bad thing. 

Oh, also, TD Canada Trust also has a US accounts now, too, if you prefer to bank with them.

Hope that helps!

Rue


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

I'm not sure how Amazon actually makes the deposit but if, on the back end, it is done via wire payment and not direct deposit, most banks charge a fee for incoming wires payments. Direct deposit in Canada is no charge to the recipient. Amazon may also be charged a fee or take the difference off of your total.

I'd like to hear from some more Canadian authors on this as I will be hitting the publish button in the new year and don't see a ton of info around that applies to us North of the border. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Amazon skims on every exchange.


----------



## Ethan Jones (Jan 20, 2012)

I get checks from Amazon and they are either in US (for sales in US and the rest of the world, except UK) or in pounds (for sales in UK).

Thanks,

Ethan


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

That's disconcerting. I'll be monitoring this post as I just passed on setting up an RBC account with their Georgia branch ... for now.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Does this factor in the download cost?


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

I have direct deposit and I've confirmed with my bank that the money is coming in from Amazon in Canadian funds - and they appear to just be making up the exchange rate they want to because it doesn't match anything posted. 

If Amazon is charging somehow to do direct deposit, that should be stated clearly. Otherwise I'll take cheques, thank you very much.

Is it only us poor Canadians? Is everyone else getting exactly what they expect to when they factor the exchange?


----------



## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

When you say you put in the current exchange rate, do you mean the one on the day you get the money or the one displayed in the KDP reports?


----------



## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

I reported on this back in February:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,179076.msg2525946.html

At that time, Amazon said they were working on the issue. They obviously aren't, so the best answer is for Canadians to optin to checks. They will not deposit US funds into a Canadian US funds account.


----------



## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> I have direct deposit and I've confirmed with my bank that the money is coming in from Amazon in Canadian funds - and they appear to just be making up the exchange rate they want to because it doesn't match anything posted.
> 
> If Amazon is charging somehow to do direct deposit, that should be stated clearly. Otherwise I'll take cheques, thank you very much.
> 
> Is it only us poor Canadians? Is everyone else getting exactly what they expect to when they factor the exchange?


If this was in response to my question, I just wanted to clarify that I meant the download cost of the ebook - the amount that we get charged per book when people buy our work.


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

ShayneRutherford said:


> If this was in response to my question, I just wanted to clarify that I meant the download cost of the ebook - the amount that we get charged per book when people buy our work.


Thanks Shayne - nothing to do with the download cost. This is the monthly report times the exchange not adding up to what is deposited.


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Rayven T. Hill said:


> I reported on this back in February:
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,179076.msg2525946.html
> 
> At that time, Amazon said they were working on the issue. They obviously aren't, so the best answer is for Canadians to optin to checks. They will not deposit US funds into a Canadian US funds account.


Hi Rayven - thanks for that - I thought it was just me or that maybe I was going insane!

Did you decide to go back to cheques? How long do they normally take to arrive? I'm losing $200 to $300 each month with this so it is worth it to me to switch over.....


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Rayven T. Hill said:


> I reported on this back in February:
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,179076.msg2525946.html
> 
> At that time, Amazon said they were working on the issue. They obviously aren't, so the best answer is for Canadians to optin to checks. They will not deposit US funds into a Canadian US funds account.


Nope. Can't be a USD account drawn on a Canadian branch. But they will deposit US funds into a US account at a branch of a Canadian bank like RBC Bank (Georgia). Which you can open by walking into your local RBC branch. Or open an account online with TD Canada Trust. Then transfer the funds into your Canadian account online whenever you please and at the bank's exchange rate (and not Amazon's).

Hope that helps!

Rue


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/products-services/banking/cross-border-banking/

http://www.rbcbank.com/

Rue


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

So the TD bank one is actually a US bank - so that's what I answer in Bookshelf? And then they'll transfer to your normal Canadian branch account? Is that right?


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

No. You open an account with TD Bank in the US and enter the info for that account in your KDP account info. Amazon will then direct deposit to that account. Then you go online and transfer the money from the TD Bank account in the US to your Canadian account. It's a little more convoluted, but so much better than getting short-changed every month from Amazon!

Here's a link to the FAQ: http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/products-services/banking/cross-border-banking/cross-border-banking-faq/index.jsp

Hope that helps!

Rue


----------



## BrentKnowles (Mar 8, 2011)

I may be misunderstanding but in a past life I had to deal with a lot of US->Canada money stuff, so:

Where are you getting the "posted current exchange rate" from? Unless its an actual number you get from Amazon (which I'm not sure where that would be posted) then it is very likely there is an additional transaction fee happening here. Banks never exchange at the posted rate. So the bank on Amazon's end (if they are the one converting from US to Canadian) will be charging Amazon an exchange fee. Amazon is passing that fee onto you, I guess?

(I just get cheques, for the record, and I when I deposit them I get less than what I should because of exchange fees from my bank.)


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Right now the exchange rate is crap going from USA to Canadian no matter WHO does it.

Canadian to USA its good. I exchanged 1700 USA into Canadian today via paypal  ( who are nightmares for exchange and hidden fees ) but i came out with over $1900 in canadian. 

I literally made $200 on the exchange.


----------



## BrentKnowles (Mar 8, 2011)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> Did you decide to go back to cheques? How long do they normally take to arrive? I'm losing $200 to $300 each month with this so it is worth it to me to switch over.....


I get cheques. They take about a week from the end of the prior month +/- a bit.


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

I'm gonna chime back in with a bit of full disclosure and offer my insight. I work for a bank (the green one) and I'm not here to sell, just here to share. I know nothing about the blue banks policies or rates. 

Mr Hill seems to be correct that the exchange voodoo is happening on amazons end. Cheques are certainly an alternative to getting bent over by the exchange rates but as someone mentioned earlier, having an account with a US based bank means you can be paid in USD because they have a routing number. In Canada, we only have transit, institution and account number which is why Zon is giving you the error.
So what I'm trying to say is, there are ways to do it electronically and not get screwed.

I've saved this thread and will keep checking in!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Catherine Lea (Jul 16, 2013)

I had exactly the same problem except for me, it's wasn't the exchange rate, it was the transfer fees. I'm in New Zealand and I've had my royalties wired for months. In many of the transactions, the last column has always read "Pending, so I wasn't aware of what's been happening. 

On the September payment, I noticed there was a discrepancy of around $148 US (not in my favour), so I notified Amazon who tell me it's my bank who have charged the fee. The very minute I read that I changed my payment options to check. I'd rather pay $15 to bank a check than to pay what appears to be around 5% of my payment to the bank. I did ask some of my American author friends if they'd noticed the same, but it appears it' the international transfers that attract the fee.


----------



## MajesticMonkey (Sep 3, 2013)

Quick question....

When making the exchange rate calculation... do you pick the exchange rate of the month the books where sold in? Or the exchange rate of the day you received payment on? In two months the exchange rate may have gone up or down a lot. Not sure if that's the problem...

When I checked this recently with the dollar rising so much against the EUR it seems they used the exchange rate of the month the books where sold in and not the exchange rate 60 days later when they actually paid... It seemed to be only $3 short so I figured that's what they did.

But maybe you are talking about a different problem??



EDIT: after reading the previous post by Catherine Lea, I was wondering if anyone could confirm with certainty what month they pick for the currency exchange when paying via wire? The month of sales or date of payment?


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Well, the exchange rate should be for the exact day the transaction is made. But who knows what funny math Amazon is using since they won't even answer what fees might be added on or when their bank actually does the exchange transaction before sending to mine. Even doing the math with the cash rate which hits harder, I'm still short.

I haven't jumped up and down about it because the difference in the dollar means I get more money in Canadian than what I've sold anyway, but being short a few hundred each month will really start to add up.

And yes, I've checked with my bank and the 'exchange voodoo' LOL is indeed on Amazon's end. They send Canadian dollars to my bank - which is why it is also a mystery as to when exactly their bank does the conversion.

Unfortunately, I bank at CIBC, but I may have to open a TD account and then a US TD account for this alone and to transfer between. Either that or cheques.....

Thank you everyone - at least I'm understanding what's happening now.


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Dug up another post about this, this one regarding UK exchange rates. Most disconcerting indeed.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=146619.0


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Yes, it seems that either Amazon is skimming a bit off the top of what they owe to foreign sellers - or they have a lousy bank that really dings them with fees on exchanges!!!

Either way, I'm going to be switching to another method of receiving payment. I'm just mad at how much I've lost already in the past few months.....


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

Just thought of something while reading Sever's link. 
To the OP - I'm sure you have but curiosity strikes me - have you checked your withholding rate in the dashboard?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> Hi Rayven - thanks for that - I thought it was just me or that maybe I was going insane!
> 
> Did you decide to go back to cheques? How long do they normally take to arrive? I'm losing $200 to $300 each month with this so it is worth it to me to switch over.....


I went back to checks as soon as I saw the discrepancy. For me, it's actually much easier than having a U.S. based account. I sometimes get the check by the posted date of the 28th, or at the latest the 1st of the month. I'm saving a lot of money per month that way and I get the full sell-rate from CIBC with no fees.

To MajesticMonkey: I went by the same date that Amazon posted their rate on the sales report.


----------



## Irish Mint (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep, Amazon does this with all international sellers.    According to my payment history, they've been skimming 0.05 cents a dollar. 

By the way, you can open a US bank account easily via Payoneer. And then use Payoneer to transfer the entire balance every month to your canadian (or any other country they support) bank account. Payoneer is kinda expensive but still cheaper than swallowing Amazon's 5% penalty every month. And faster than a check.

I'll do the switch when I start earning a substantial income... still a long way to go for that


----------



## That Author (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks Irish Mint for finally posting the percentage they are taking. Was just about to ask about that. Think I'll go sign up for that RBC US account today.

The silver lining here, if there is one, is that you can claim the percentage that Amazon (or other money changers like Paypal) take from you on your taxes. Or so I have been told in the past w/r/t Paypal. Paypal, if I remember right, takes about 2%, but 5% seems like a lot.


----------



## SomethingElse (May 29, 2014)

I looked into the green bank and the blue bank for their US accounts in the US. The blue bank is much easier to set up. I went into my local branch, told them what I wanted and they did all the paperwork, faxed it to the blue bank in Georgia. I made a deposit into the Georgia bank at the same time while I was in the branch. I opened a US dollar account at the local branch as well. I got the paperwork in the mail along with a debit card for the Georgia bank. I can log into online banking and flip between the US account and my Canadian ones, transfer back and forth as well. 

For the green bank I was told I couldn't do the online transfers between the US and Canada. That I would have to call or go into a branch and have them do it for me. 

So for all except Canadian and UK sales I get paid in USD to my account in Georgia. For Canadian and UK I opted for cheques. My bank told me there would be no charge for converting a UK cheque. We'll see once I actually have enough UK sales to get a cheque.


----------



## MajesticMonkey (Sep 3, 2013)

WTF!!!!

Had a big payment coming in today. There's a $400 with the exchange rate of today!!

My previous theory clearly doesn't hold water and was flawed thinking to begin with!

Even if I get the exchange rate of 2 months back It's still $191 short!!

WTF Amazon!!!

(I called the bank. No fees where charged. No exchange was made... Just euro's to another euro account....)

I am going back to checks in a hurry. Thanks to the OP for making me aware of this. I guess you never did get the difference paid??


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

Green bank can most definitely transfer online. There is a limit of $2500 per 24 hours and both accounts have to be in your name and from/to the green bank only (exact match) to avoid fees. Telephone transfers across the border (also same name/bank only) are possible and with no fee up to $100,000 per calendar day. 

Sorry someone gave you inaccurate info. 

ETA: the initial deposit to the account in the usa can only be done in person or by phone but after that the online option is there.


----------



## chris56 (Jun 8, 2013)

I really hate hearing that non-US authors are getting shortchanged with the exchange rate.  Paypal apparently does the same thing.  I'm in the US and was paid in Canadian funds through Paypal by a client and I couldn't figure out how Paypal came up with their amount in US funds.  However they did it, it did not match the exchange rates I checked online and they ended keeping more than they should have.

It may seem like a bit of work in the beginning for Canadians to get accounts with the US banks that were mentioned here in this thread, but it is definitely something I would do if I were living in Canada.  I hate getting checks because it means a trip to the bank and I just recently ditched the bank I had been using for several years because they now charge your account with a service fee if you make any type of deposits other than direct deposits.  That's for personal accounts - business accounts get his with a service fee no matter what and $12 a month adds up over time.


----------



## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

too many long posts to read, so apologies if I'm repeating

I am a US based author. When I get my deposits for CA, AU, UK, EURO, etc., my deposits total X times 12 for the year. When my 1099 arrives from Amazon, the 1099 says (12 times X) plus Y

I and several other authors have contacted kdp support and the official statement we received is: 

"Tax reporting is calculated based on the gross amount of your payment, which includes the amount of the royalty payment you received in USD as well as any applicable fees, such as fees related to receiving payment in a currency other than the currency of the marketplace on which your sales occurred. We work with a bank partner to enable payment to you in your local currency.  The only fees you incurred are those related to working with our bank provider to facilitate payment to you in your local currency."

So Americans receiving non-USD are charged an undisclosed processing fee and non-Americans receiving USD translated to their local currency are also charged an undisclosed processing fee. The discrepancy between your deposits and your 1099s reflect the fee and is a deductible business expense. (Or at least that's how my accountant lets me take it - there's also the "payment not constructively received" option, I guess)


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

That's good to know. But I think I'd rather get my money than a tax deduction. 

bwcolborne, thanks for the info on the green bank. I'm thinking of switching from the blue bank, since the green bank is my usual bank here at home.

One question: for the initial deposit, would it be more cost effective to transfer USD from my US blue bank account to the US green bank account? Or from my CDN green bank account to the US green bank account?

Thanks!

Rue


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

From what I hear, moving money from one american bank to another is as easy as pie and definitely more cost efficient since there is no exchange. Don't know if this is free. Perhaps one of our helpful US friends could tell us. Avoid currency conversion whenever possible. The rates are especially horrible right now and if it's done through a bank they don't make it cheaper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SomethingElse (May 29, 2014)

bwcolborne said:


> Green bank can most definitely transfer online. There is a limit of $2500 per 24 hours and both accounts have to be in your name and from/to the green bank only (exact match) to avoid fees. Telephone transfers across the border (also same name/bank only) are possible and with no fee up to $100,000 per calendar day.


Maybe they didn't know what I was asking or maybe it's changed since I went in to find out about it. They definitely said I couldn't transfer funds the way I do at the blue bank. And the green bank would have been preferable just because there's one closer to me than the blue one. And I used to work at the green one.


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

But what about those of us who bank at the red bank?!  

The green bank's online site says that transfers can only be done by phoning in and requesting - I wonder why there's so much mis-information.

Thank you everyone! I asked this a couple of months ago and never got an answer. I just chalked it up to something wrong on my end - until I saw it again and again.

Now I'm torn re: blue and green. Is blue sounding easier? Arguments for each please if you know!


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

I thought about that too last night -- the withholding rate. It should be zero!


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

For banking in Canada, I very much like the green bank. I used to bank with the red bank, but was really unhappy with their service about ten years ago so made the switch.

For the blue bank (BTW, don't we technically have two blue banks?  ), I've been very happy with their service so far. It took me all of maybe 15 minutes to set up accounts here in Canada and then I received a package a few weeks later with my US banking info (including cheques and a debit card). I had to transfer $100 within 30 days (which meant withdrawing from my green bank account and depositing to my blue bank account and then transferring to my US blue bank account), but I did that and the account was then activated. After that, everything has been done online through one login name and password. The only thing that's a hassle is transferring from the blue bank to the green bank (as in withdrawing at the blue bank and then driving three blocks and depositing at the green bank), so that's why I'm thinking of switching to the green bank.

Hope that helps!

Rue


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

Heard some rumblings that folks had a tax information notification when they logged in to dashboard a few weeks ago and their withholding rate had reset to the dastardly 30%. 
If you don't have the tax info set up, that's a different can of worms but also easy to fix. 
As for blue vs green, I recommend whatever one is easier for you. That might mean closest to where you live or if you already have one or the other for your everyday stuff. Both seem to offer similar service. Maybe some blue bank users or employees could shed some light. I have an account at the red bank too but the only international operation they had when I was looking around was in Grenada...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

You now have to enter your SIN number to get the withholding exemption from KDP (in case anyone didn't realize this). In fact, they rejected my EIN!

Hope that helps!

Rue


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

ruecole said:


> You now have to enter your SIN number to get the withholding exemption from KDP (in case anyone didn't realize this). In fact, they rejected my EIN!


Curious: when did they reject your EIN--as you were filing your tax info with amazon or later? Did their policy change recently?

I did not have to give them my SIN number; all I gave is my EIN, and it says tax status approved and all right (as of months ago).


----------



## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

This could be a similar problem that we've been discussing in the Aussie thread here on Kboards. We used to get an FX Rate and the final Payment in the payments report was listed in AUD (my local currency). Now there's no FX rate and the final Payment is listed in the currency of the store (USD, GBP etc). This month I noticed a $500 discrepancy between the Net Earnings and the final Payment!! (not in my favour). Same currency, all the taxes, adjustments etc were taken out in Net Payments, so where did the $500 go? It can't be an exchange rate issue because both figures are in USD. I've sent off an enquiry to support but I have the sinking feeling this will take some time to resolve and probably won't end in my favour. This has been going on for about 3 months, but the amounts were smaller, like $20, so I put it down to a fee at Amazon's bank's end, but this time it's too much.  

I'll be following this thread to see if you Canadians work out your issue in the hope it will help us solve ours


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

This was over the summer. They probably grandfathered your EIN in. But if you're entering one today they'll reject it. Read this thread:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196368.0.html

Rue


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

ruecole said:


> This was over the summer. They probably grandfathered your EIN in. But if you're entering one today they'll reject it. Read this thread:
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196368.0.html


Thanks for that.

Oh man, I have a bad feeling about this.


----------



## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

Rue, you can totally do an email transfer from green to blue. I do them all the time from green to red.  It costs $1.50 to send but the lazy factor is sooooo worth it for me. Switching banks can be a hassle and you've already got a history with blue which is important for credit reasons.

We should consider the monthly costs associated with the various banks when deciding as well. They can vary greatly based on needs and balances.

I do like that we have created a little code language for our banks in this thread. I think there are 3 blue banks now that libro changed colours and 3 red ones too. Funny stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SJ Kelley (Feb 13, 2015)

This is my first post on KBoards but I've been a lurker for some time. I just realized that this is an older thread (still getting used to the forum format), so apologies for posting if this has been resolved. I did a search for any Canadian posts so I guess that's how I found this! In any case, I'm very much into the business aspect of indie publishing and crunched some numbers to see what the most economical option was for converting USD to CDN, and since it took awhile I thought I'd share it here in case anyone could find the info useful. Please note though that I'm only human and may have made a mistake somewhere, so please be gentle with me if you find something wrong 

I found that looking at all the fine print on fees was really important, and the exchange rate banks use tend to vary widely. For example, PC Financial charges 2.5%, TD ~2.78%, and RBC ~3.35% (or as near as I could figure). I also looked into whether it made more sense to get cheques and deposit into USD accounts or regular CDN accounts, and the convenience cost of converting at the same bank the account is with or one with a better exchange rate. For each scenario I calculated how much of the original amount (converted to CDN) went toward bank and conversion fees.

On a fictional cheque of $200 USD, I found that for direct deposit to TD-US, transferring to TD-Canada, and withdrawing at the same bank costs 6.17% of the CDN value of the cheque. Same scenario for RBC costs 5.68%. Depositing a USD cheque into a USD Canadian account at TD costs 3.18%, and same thing at RBC 4.15%. So depending on if you want to do cheques or direct deposit, different banks seem better than others. I hope I did the calculations right (you can see the full report, including a discussion of PC Financial, on my blog (http://www.sjkelley.com/2015/02/how-to-get-most-money-out-of-amazon.html) <-- I have no idea if this link will work, but fingers crossed, haha), but I don't bank at RBC or TD, so I may have misinterpreted something. If you find any errors, please let me know! I hope the info is useful


----------



## over and out (Sep 9, 2011)

1


----------



## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

The exchange rate changes constantly. What it was when I started typing this response, isn't what it is when I typed this period at the end.


----------



## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Mine seems to be spot on. The amount reported in the monthly report is exactly what is on the payment report on my dashboard and the posted exchange rate is current to that date. That is exactly what's posted in my bank account.


----------



## SJ Kelley (Feb 13, 2015)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> The exchange rate changes constantly. What it was when I started typing this response, isn't what it is when I typed this period at the end.


Looks like I miscommunicated in my previous post; sorry about that. When I said, "the exchange rate banks use tend to vary widely" I meant the admin fee rates, the ones that are applied on top of whatever the current exchange rate is. I was more clear on my blog (hopefully at least, lol). Apologies for the confusion!


----------

