# I turned down over a million bucks in trad deals, plus other tips for Indies



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

I posted an announcement on my facebook page last night and had several ppl nudge me to post it over here. So here we go. Plus I'm adding more info, b/c info is king and it's good to be king. bwuhahaha.

*Over the past year I've been offered over 1.5 million bucks in advances offered by huge publishing houses. *I told them to show me a marketing plan that knocks my socks off and I'd consider their offer. I had this notion that they knew what they were doing and could do it better than I could. They said they had all these ideas and they're gonna blow my mind, which was a requirement for the deal, b/c the pay was too low.

About the money - if you have a book that hits #1-10 on the Kindle store, tons of people have the mistaken notion that it's gonna blip and fall and you're fun in the sun will end...unless a trad pub picks you up.

It's math time! A book in the top ten sells around 5-10K copies per day. Let's take the average and give the book some wiggle room and say it's selling 7K copies a day @ $2.99. In 7 days you'll have made (net, not gross) over $100,000. So BIG TRAD HOUSE offers you $200,000 for a three part series.

'Sign here,' they say. 'Sign fast! You want to strike while the irons hot.' 'A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.' 'It's a sure thing and if you don't sign, then you could loose everything.' <--They actually said all the crap to me, and its crap. If the book nets $100K in a week, what will it do next week? What about next month? What about next year? Never mind those other 2 books. Bad deal.

The most recent offer was for a high six figure deal on my next novel, on spec, sight unseen from one of the big 5. I gave the same terms - show me a kick ass marketing plan and I'll consider it. They were excited and on it! They were going to wow me. Like I was gonna be so wowed that I'd die of the wowness. True story.

Dude, the marketing plan I got back was the equivalent of, 'we're gonna do stuff.' Their email list - yeah, they don't personally have one, but this archaic place does - had 2K people on it. That was the bulk of their plan.

My email list has over 30K ppl on it and I do a ton more stuff than they presented. There's a post in here about my release day marketing plan, most of which is free and time consuming. I still do that. It's listed in here with details.

THEY DON'T DO THAT MUCH.

I said no. And laughed. A lot. It was so weak.

My point - do NOT think that they have any clue what they are doing, because they do not. There is a marketing method that is called 'see what sticks' where you take a plate of spaghetti and toss it at the wall. There's no planning, no nothing. Just take it and throw. That is what the big houses are doing. Every marketing plan had that element of 'fate' and hoped that I would be the lucky piece of pasta that stuck.

Screw that. I want someone who knows what they're doing. Apparently, that's me. I'm good at selling intangible goods. I know that, but I assumed there would be better things that I hadn't thought of. I still consider myself 'green.' Yeah, it turns out that I'm not.

Everything you do should have a purpose. All ads should be directly targeting your demographic for your book. 'Toss it at the wall' is very costly and honestly, it gets you a very poor ROI (return on investment).

Here are some of the highlights of my Indie career since I started. March marks my 3 year Indie anniversary. I was not previously published. I started at zero. I was a photographer, with a theology degree that cost a frickin fortune.

•I sold 4 MILLION+ books since 2011.

•DAMAGED: THE FERRO FAMILY was the #1 bestselling Indie Kindle Direct Publishing and CreateSpace title of 2013.

•DAMAGED: THE FERRO FAMILY was the #14 bestselling Kindle title on Amazon of 2013.

•In 2013 alone I had 11 different titles on the NEW YORK TIMES bestsellers list.

•I'm a NYT, WSJ, USAT bestselling author.

•THE ARRANGEMENT series sold over 1 million copies in 2013. Dude, they're serials. People hate short books. Riiiight. 

•I've been a top 100 Amazon author every month of 2013, often in the top 10.

•In 2013 I released a new title about every 2.5 weeks.

•My formal education is in theology.

•My titles tend to focus on elements of the human condition such as poverty, hope, grief, and loss.

•I had multiple titles hit #1 on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and other sites.

•DAMAGED: THE FERRO FAMILY was in the Amazon top 100 kindle titles for over 100 days in 2013.

•H.M. Ward owns H.M. Ward Press (formerly Laree Bailey Press). Other indies thought that I was trad b/c of my press. I'm not.

•Prior to this I was a nationally acclaimed professional photographer. I shot the covers for Demon Kissed 1-5 and Catalyst before I retired from photography in Fall 2012. Until then, I was a FT photog and a PT writer.

I started by using facebook and only facebook to connect to readers outside of my social circles. There are other ways to do that, but I'm a big believer in _don't wait for them to come to you_.

My first book cost me $125 to produce. I was butt poor from a theology degree that cost well over six figures. I didn't have extra money to mess around with.

I had a big NY agent for my 1st book and was looking at the traditional route. I told her to pull it--I wanted to publish it myself. (Many thanks to Joe Konrath and his awesome blog).

I work about 80 hours a week. I have two assistants that help me manage paperwork. I just hired them b/c I had been going nuts trying to do everything myself. Hubby helps me with all the numbers stuff and when I get sick (I've been fighting an illness for the past 3 years) that knocks me on my ass periodically.

If you forget everything else in this post, remember this:

*If you don't have the gall to believe in yourself and your work, no one else will.

Bring it.

Own it.*

And don't worry about mistakes, because they're the stepping stones to success. I notice I never say 'I failed' - I say 'well, I jacket that up,' and try to figure out where it went wrong so I can fix it. Failure is an excellent teacher. Learn from it and try again.

I feel like crap today, so forgive my typos and such. I wanted to take the time to share this b/c stuff like this helped me. I'd see ppl's posts about how they were getting ahead, buying a laptop with their earnings, or read Joe's blog and seeing his income, and it made me keep going. I'm glad I did.

Being an Indie completely and totally rocks.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Thanks for the post Holly. You make perfect sense to me.       Go girl go! You'd have to be crazy to go any other way.


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

As usual, great stuff. I love hearing your thoughts on this industry, it always lights a fire under my butt!


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## @Suzanna (Mar 14, 2011)

As ever, you're an inspiration, Holly! Thank you so much for sharing.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Great post Holly.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks for this, Holly. 

Also, hilarious about the publishers. Sigh. I don't think they exactly understand what being wildly successful means when you are getting 70%...


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Great post, Holly. You truly are an inspiration.


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## Harriet Schultz (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you for sharing, Holly. It takes balls to turn down that kind of money, but you come from a position of strength and success and have the numbers to back it up. 

I'd love to know how that Big 5 editor reacted when you rejected the offer.


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

Spot on from what I've heard from others. If you go with trad, it should be a step up and not just a little. Because they really have no clue what the hell is going on.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

80 hours a week?! I've done that for a day job, can't seem to bring myself to do it for me. Have to change that. 

Pretty much every writer I know who knows about you appreciates your work ethic (myself included), but it's helpful/spurring to see an actual number attached to it. 

How would you break down those 80 hours on the average week, from actual writing, to editing, to marketing, etc.? I know some weeks are going to be skewed toward marketing (release week) and some toward editing, etc.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Harriet Schultz said:


> Thank you for sharing, Holly. It takes balls to turn down that kind of money, but you come from a position of strength and success and have the numbers to back it up.
> 
> I'd love to know how that Big 5 editor reacted when you rejected the offer.


When I turned down that first 6 figure offer, I was still broke. FYI. I did math and trusted my gut. Then I waffled, b/c ppl told me I was stupid on passing up a sure thing. They sounded like they were a walking talking publisher billboard. Then Bella and Mr. Kobo talked to me and I had to overpower my very aggressive agent, who then gave me a guilt trip.

Saying no is hard.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Cool! Thank you for the post!


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

Wonderful post, Holly. You are definitely an inspiration.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Fan-friggin'-tastic, Holly! You rock.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

That's really inspiring. Thanks so much for sharing!


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

I was very excited when I saw this was a post from you. Always inspirational. Thanks, Holly.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

After all the rejections we have received collectively, it's thrilling to see someone laugh in their face. You did it for all of us, even if that wasn't your intent. Thank you!


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## Rich Walls (Feb 4, 2012)

Awesome stuff


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for the post! Have not seen you post in a while.

I am curious about the 80 breakdown also.


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## 60865 (Jun 11, 2012)

You're absolutely amazing, thank you so much for sharing.
Keep it up !


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Damn, girl!  You rock!!

Thank you for sharing this info.  It's really wonderful, and very inspiring. I hope to be where you are when I move into a more popular genre...but I'll take "somewhere close."    So glad we have this fantastic community that shares information like this.  

Have the best 2014 ever, Holly!  (And feel better!)


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## horse_girl (Apr 9, 2010)

It's good to see the reality and the facts of what really would happen signing a contract with big 5 vs diy. Would not have thought of that. Good for you sticking to your plans and forcing them to work for you or kissing them good bye. That takes a lot of willpower.


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## Shalini Boland (Nov 29, 2010)

Holly, your post has cheered me up and fired me up in equal measures. Thanks for sharing!


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## Rachel Aukes (Oct 13, 2013)

Thanks for such an informational, motivational post!


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## Lefty (Apr 7, 2011)

Great job!


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## RichardWolanski (Jan 20, 2014)

Thank you, H.M.

I was taking a break from finishing my word count for today, and this was an inspiring read. It's so helpful and it's _free_!


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## Jennifer Lewis (Dec 12, 2013)

Very inspirational!! Thanks for sharing


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Thank you for your inspiring words. I hope you feel better. 
When I published my first book six months ago, I suddenly acquired debilitating allergies. I have no idea what is causing them, but I finally figured out how to control them.  
There's something about the stress of all of this... I don't know, I don't want to get too metaphysical about it. 
You are a leader and a role model for us all. 

Thank you again.


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## Samuel Peralta (Dec 31, 2013)

Holly - you're an inspiration, thank you for sharing your experience!


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## Ronny K (Aug 2, 2011)

These are the best kind of stories. Here I was getting burnt out--back to it!

I'm curious if you use an agent at this point for any other services?


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

This is the BEST POST since like...well, at least Hugh's report yesterday. I think the two are very complementary. It's one thing to see the data to know what makes sense. It's another to have the balls to buck tradition and believe in yourself. I think having both sides of that coin before you is what gives newbies like me the strength to keep plugging along and keeping faith every day. Thank you so much for taking the time to offer guidance to those who need it.


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## MissyM (Jun 21, 2013)

This is great stuff! Thanks for taking the time to post and share it.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Congrats!

I would love to hear anything you have to say about fan management (assuming you're taking topic suggestions). I'm beginning to realize what a minefield that is and I've had some fans write things to me referencing 'stalking me all over the internet.' I'm sure they mean well, but it's also kind of an 'eeek that's not why I write books for you' moment, too.

And now I'm off to go look up that pre-release post. I remember reading it way back when, but I need a refresher.

M


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Here's the link to the pre-release checklist she mentioned: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,152565.0.html

And here's Elle Casey's list (which is pretty similar actually): http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=170327.0


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## Scott Daniel (Feb 1, 2011)

Congratulations on all of your success. It's wonderful to see Indies succeed!


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks, Holly.  Your story is an inspiration to us all.


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## bellaandre (Dec 10, 2010)

<3 <3 <3


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

mrv01d said:


> Here's the link to the pre-release checklist she mentioned: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,152565.0.html
> 
> And here's Elle Casey's list (which is pretty similar actually):http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=170327.0


Thanks for hunting those down and posting them, mrv :*


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

bellaandre said:


> <3 <3 <3


And another inspiration appears. Just finished The Way You Look Tonight, and I loved it.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

Holly, I just looked at your site and want to know...

When is your zombie CYOA book going to come out!?

LOL. Thanks for the inspiration!


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

great advice, thanks for sharing!


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Kick *ss! Thanks again Holly for all the great advice you've given us over the years.


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

You write the best posts, Holly!

Thanks for that.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> Screw that.


'bout sums it up for me. Can't get much clearer than that.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

TK aka BB said:


> ...
> 
> I looked over your recent posts (5 pages) and could not find the page where you detail your release strategy. Could you by any chance post a link?...
> 
> TK aka BB


MRV dug them up and posted up thread:

Here's the link to the pre-release checklist she mentioned: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,152565.0.html

And here's Elle Casey's list (which is pretty similar actually): http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=170327.0


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## K.R. Harris (Jan 25, 2012)

Thank you for the post, Holly! You rock!


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## Escapee (Jan 31, 2014)

Selling 4 million books without the help of a trad publisher is a mind boggling achievement. You have proven that it is possible for indie authors to succeed but we have to put in the effort and not just sit around and expect the sales to roll in on their own.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Awesome post again, Holly! Thanks for sharing. That trad-pub marketing plan (or lack thereof) is just...wow.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Holly, you rock. When you write that saying no is hard, I really, really, really believe you. That took spine.

Congratulations and best wishes for 4 million more.


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## HarperWhitmore (Nov 19, 2013)

Wonderful post thanks Holly


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

Are they serous? So I basically have way more people on my own mailing list? That sucks. 

THANK YOU so much for sharing the way you do. You've always been so generous with information and it really helps. It's hard to make decisions without information and the indie community is so awesome about sharing data. 

Suddenly feeling much better about the offers I've turned down, because sometimes you do wonder if their "marketing" would have been some super cool thing that indies can't do on their own. Guess not. LOL


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

> If you don't have the gall to believe in yourself and your work, no one else will.
> 
> Bring it.
> 
> Own it.


Love it. Should have this framed above my computer. We tell more stories than the ones we write. Your narrative of success is a story that affects each of our own. And here we go, excavating ourselves as authors of the revolution. Thanks HM!


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Somebody needs to give you a ph.d. in marketing, Holly! You go girl!


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

H.M. Ward said:


> Saying no is hard.


Yeah, but it takes guts and THAT is what we admire most about you. Rock on, Holly!


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## Matt Ryan (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks Holly for posting this.

I'm curious, does the big 5 keep asking? 

Also, have you considered print only deals like Hugh?


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## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

Math aside, I'm curious why isn't this worth it as a way to get into bookstores? Yes, I understand the ebook part of it, but print distribution is a lot harder (or almost impossible) for indies. Wouldn't it be worth it to take one of these deals just so you could get that? Even if you don't make as much money, you write fast enough that you could make it up with other books.

It's an honest question.


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## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm sorry I'm still trippin' on the 100k a week thing


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## atthekeyboard (Oct 31, 2013)

...


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

> *If you don't have the gall to believe in yourself and your work, no one else will.
> 
> Bring it.
> 
> Own it.*


awesome.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Bookmarked this one - great stuff.


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## jamiegrey (Oct 1, 2013)

This is really amazing. Thank you so much, Holly. I know everyone's already said it, but you really are an inspiration!


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

Those tips are awesome, thanks so much. Many congrats on your success and long may it continue! The most awesome thing, of course, is that we share a family name. Wards rock haha.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks for posting this, Holly. 

I'm just getting started in this writing gig, self published my first book just 4 months ago and my second one just 2 months ago, while trying to make ends meet as an over the road truck driver. Currently, my income from book sales is about 70% of what I earn at my day job and my third book will be out in March. I thought of trying to find a publisher and my son in law turned me on to createspace. He worked at Amazon at the time. 

Your success in such a short time is an inspiration. I'm doubly glad I didn't go the traditional route now.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Thank you for sharing this! This post is so awesome and inspiring.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

This might be the best post I've ever read here. Keeping sight of the big picture, no matter what.
Keep rockin', Holly!


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## von19 (Feb 20, 2013)

My initial reaction: She's insane! What type of an idiot...

Then I read it...

And now I feel really inspired.

Thank you Mrs. Ward. Live long and prosper. 

/goes off to write 

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you for this inspiring post, Holly. It reached me at the right time. I was thinking about going back to pursue more traditional routes, but I just think I haven't committed enough.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

I totally want to be you when I grow up. 

Four million books in 36 months. 

No questions here. Just awe.

Hey, at least we keep the same hours. I got that going for me...


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## Michael Robertson Jr (Feb 24, 2011)

Inspiring, for sure. Thanks for sharing your story, and congratulations on the success!


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## Writer1000 (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you, Holly. You're an inspiration.


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## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, that made me shuffle my ass back in that chair quick.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

Love, love, love! Great and precise information, Holly. You rock, girl!


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## dianasg (Jan 8, 2010)

Holly, you are awesome! This is such an inspiring post - thank you! From day one you've been innovating, trying, re-trying, and taking those leaps of faith. 

What I admire most about you is not your sales record, but your conviction: in your work and in yourself.


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## Lo/Roxie (May 11, 2011)

Wow! Thanks so much for sharing. Your posts are always so inspirational!


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

This is amazing. Can't wait to show it to friends.


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## BlankPage (Sep 23, 2012)

_Comment removed due to VS TOS 24/9/2018_


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## evecarter (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks Holly. That post made my day. You are such an inspiration.


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## Maia Sepp Ross (May 10, 2013)

Thank you for posting this.


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## PatriceFitz (Jan 8, 2011)

My mouth is open!  That is amazing.  Congratulations, and thanks for sharing.  Going to read your release tips now.

Sending you healing thoughts and virtual hugs for whatever is going on for you healthwise... I hope you feel better soon.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Adam Poe said:


> Thanks for the post! Have not seen you post in a while.
> 
> I am curious about the 80 breakdown also.


It's more than 80 hours. I work at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week when I'm home. The only way I stop working is for me to go on vacation. But anyone who has worked for themselves knows that. I try to stop at 5pm, but it never happens. I usually try to stop and 5 and it takes me until 9 to get stuff done.

3 hours or less are spent writing per day.

The rest gets eaten up by email, fb, twitter, fan interaction, vendor relations/ discussions, launches (on launch day all I do is the stuff on that page I wrote a while back. It takes ALL day. I can't do anything else on those days.)

I think interaction is important. Ive always thought that. If they took the time to write me something, I want to write them back. Its time consuming.

The rest of the time is spent making covers, blurbs, marketing strategy, reworking sales copies if they flopped, analyzing stats and seeing what can be changed to function better. This year I added book fairs to my to do list, so I'll be at BEA, RWA, London, and RT. Audiobooks, listening to narrators, making the covers for those, answering interview requests. Planning marketing and coordinating things between ads. Making social media pics and posting.

That's the stuff that stands out. Hubby does stats on sales and prepares paperwork for the boring side of a business.

As in any other person who is self employed, I spend the least amount of time doing the fun part. In this case, writing. I like making covers too.

I work from the time I wake up until the time I go to sleep. I did that when I had the photography studio too. Im not sure if Im a workaholic or if I work harder b/c I work for me.

I still spend a few hours every day playing with my kids and hubby. I eat meals with them, and work at home, so they can come talk to me when they need me. I don't expect to maintain this pace forever, but I've been doing it so long I'd be lost working 40 hours a week.

Im hoping my assistants will take over the redundant work (eg cover made for ebook, paper, acx-the assistant makes the duplicates after I do the ebook design) and that will cut my workload by about 10 hours a week, which would be great. I'll end up writing instead. hahaha.

Someone asked about paper only deals - NO ONE IS INTERESTED. I thought that was insane, but it's not. It lines up with Hugh's report. Paper is not where the money is at- ebooks are. I made the NYT list this week. Ebook only rank was #7 and Ebook and paper combined was #8. No preorder. Minimal paper sales - a few hundred. That also lines up with what Hugh's report. Which makes me think, there isnt a lot of money in paper and the risk is greater than the reward. I am trying to do paper distribution myself. It's too early to say what will happen. I'll let you know, but I'm thinking there is a reason why the trad pubs are backing off of paper sales. It's not arbitrary, despite their other actions I think they're right about paper.

If Indies stopped chasing paper, if they stopped thinking that paper would be the difference, well, that would be major.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

That's very interesting about paper, Holly. It echoes what I'm hearing. The rhetoric in the biz is that ebooks are only 30%, so you're really missing out. Could be if you're an airport author where huge sales go out on paperback through pre-flight gift shops. But my gut has been saying for a lot of time that most of the money for most genres that don't sell well in an airport is in ebooks. Of course, Hugh's report, which is awesome (I'm listening to his podcast right now), covers Amazon only, so it's possible there's a different experience out there we as ebook authors (and that's what we mostly are) are missing - the Walmart, airport, bookstore thing. But my hunch is, not so much.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

H.M. Ward said:


> If Indies stopped chasing paper, if they stopped thinking that paper would be the difference, well, that would be major.


Absolutely. My ebook sales are easily 98% of my total sales.


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

H.M. Ward said:


> Someone asked about paper only deals - NO ONE IS INTERESTED.


Wow. If that's the case, trad publishers are in worse shape than I thought. Print distribution is the only reason to go trad now. If that's not profitable, they're dead.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2014)

"_If you don't have the gall to believe in yourself and your work, no one else will. Bring it. Own it._"

Holly, thanks a million for your post!!!

Jolie


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## Courtney Milan (Feb 27, 2011)

Fantastic post, Holly.

I know you put it up as one big number, but I can imagine that it took a lot of courage and faith to turn those deals down, knowing that you deserved better.

Amazing accomplishment.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

You're an inspiration, Holly, and I'm so excited I'll be seeing you at RT this year .

I love your energy, enthusiasm and your amazing generosity!


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

About paper sales. I've heard from two agents who both said and I quote, "No one cares about paper. It's all about ebook sales." 

Major kudos to you, Holly for having the guts to turn those deals down. It is hard to say no, especially when everyone is telling you you're crazy for following what your gut is saying.


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## victoriarichards (Feb 11, 2014)

Excellent post and very inspirational! Really loved it and has me re-thinking the whole serial thing.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

This was awesome. Thank you for sharing.


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## Irisdeorre (Jul 26, 2011)

Thank you for such an inspirational post! This has made me hopeful and has allowed me to look at things differently.


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## AriadneW (Feb 16, 2013)

That is such a fantastic post, Holly. You are such an inspiration and it's great to see some of the math behind your decision. It just makes sense.


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## Matt Ryan (Nov 16, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> Someone asked about paper only deals - NO ONE IS INTERESTED. I thought that was insane, but it's not. It lines up with Hugh's report. Paper is not where the money is at- ebooks are. I made the NYT list this week. Ebook only rank was #7 and Ebook and paper combined was #8. No preorder. Minimal paper sales - a few hundred. That also lines up with what Hugh's report. Which makes me think, there isnt a lot of money in paper and the risk is greater than the reward. I am trying to do paper distribution myself. It's too early to say what will happen. I'll let you know, but I'm thinking there is a reason why the trad pubs are backing off of paper sales. It's not arbitrary, despite their other actions I think they're right about paper.
> 
> If Indies stopped chasing paper, if they stopped thinking that paper would be the difference, well, that would be major.


Wow.

On the other side, I've been hearing they've been offering ebook only deal to authors.

Best of luck on your paper distribution. Let us know if you get any details on it.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

That is amazing, Holly! Thanks for sharing the info, especially your thoughts about paper.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Bravo for your decision and sharing - thanks as always!


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## J.J. Thompson (Aug 10, 2013)

There are very few things that give me goosebumps anymore. This gave me goosebumps. Bravo and keep it up!


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## Shayne Parkinson (Mar 19, 2010)

Holly, you're a marvel! I hope this year holds even greater things for you.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

Posts like yours, Holly, are what keep me totally hooked on Kboards. What an amazing and inspirational accomplishment--and so many wonderful books. 

Stay well...

_(Where's my keyboard? I need to start pounding on it. Right. Now!)_


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

H.M. Ward said:


> It's more than 80 hours. I work at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week when I'm home. The only way I stop working is for me to go on vacation. But anyone who has worked for themselves knows that.


Exactly! All my friends and family think I'm just screwing around all day and call my like I've got time to chat during prime writing hours (while the kids are at school). I don't think much heat from my parents but they own a restaurant and haven't worked a 40 hour week in years.



H.M. Ward said:


> Someone asked about paper only deals - NO ONE IS INTERESTED. I thought that was insane, but it's not. It lines up with Hugh's report. Paper is not where the money is at- ebooks are. I made the NYT list this week. Ebook only rank was #7 and Ebook and paper combined was #8. No preorder. Minimal paper sales - a few hundred. That also lines up with what Hugh's report. Which makes me think, there isnt a lot of money in paper and the risk is greater than the reward. I am trying to do paper distribution myself. It's too early to say what will happen. I'll let you know, but I'm thinking there is a reason why the trad pubs are backing off of paper sales. It's not arbitrary, despite their other actions I think they're right about paper.
> 
> If Indies stopped chasing paper, if they stopped thinking that paper would be the difference, well, that would be major.


That is all so interesting. I was just talking to my husband today about the things that you said and paper deals came up. It's good to know it's just not really worth it. I suppose it's good to see it they will come back with an interesting offer but I won't be holding my breath. And to be honest, being self employed can be a total pain at times but I don't have to answer to anyone else but myself and I'm more a slave driver than anyone else could be. 

Thanks again for all the great information. Can't tell you how helpful these things are.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

H.M. Ward said:


> Someone asked about paper only deals - NO ONE IS INTERESTED. I thought that was insane, but it's not. It lines up with Hugh's report. Paper is not where the money is at- ebooks are. *I made the NYT list this week. Ebook only rank was #7 and Ebook and paper combined was #8. No preorder. Minimal paper sales - a few hundred. *That also lines up with what Hugh's report. Which makes me think, there isnt a lot of money in paper and the risk is greater than the reward. I am trying to do paper distribution myself. It's too early to say what will happen. I'll let you know, but I'm thinking there is a reason why the trad pubs are backing off of paper sales. It's not arbitrary, despite their other actions I think they're right about paper.


This paragraph right here is telling, especially combined with Hugh's recent analysis. Thanks again for sharing, Holly.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

CJArcher said:


> This paragraph right here is telling, especially combined with Hugh's recent analysis. Thanks again for sharing, Holly.


I noticed that trend a while ago. So it's not a recent development. Ebooks are dominating the market. My NYT ebook only and combined lists rank are always right next to each other, even if the paper wasn't for sale yet. Cool beans for us, right? Apparently paper doesn't matter.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Great stuff, Holly, thanks for posting this. It's good to see you in the cafe again


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## NewbieWan (Jul 21, 2013)

Thank you for the information. As a newbie, I'm encouraged by your progress in just a couple of years. Gives one hope!


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## CarlSinclair (Apr 7, 2013)

Very inspirational post. I'll have to bookmark it for when I have those moments when you just wanna quit and go back to (X JOB HERE)

Thanks so much for sharing.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Where's the "like" button for this thread?


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## Nathaniel Burns (Nov 1, 2013)

Get well soon, ya hear? Awesome post.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

We've had some great threads this week, and this is definitely one of them! Anyway, what everybody else said.


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## legion (Mar 1, 2013)

Holly, I think I love you.

I totally needed that post right now.
Thank you for popping in with the perspective from way up there once again!


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## No longer seen (Aug 17, 2013)

A traditional publisher not having a marketing plan to sell a book wouldn't deter me from signing a deal
if the money was right. I already realize they're stuck in the past.

However, I'd be afraid of the contract terms. Very afraid.

Surprised you didn't mention noncompete agreements and the other terms by which traditional
publishers now seek to own the careers of their authors. Any author considering a trad 
deal should read Kristine Kathryn Rusch's blogposts on contract terms.

Then have an IP lawyer review it.

Still, I wouldn't mind getting one book into paper print, to drive new readers to my 
self-published books.

It's just, they do so much to demonstrate their downright contempt for writers.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Awesome post Holly. Inspirational.


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## trublue (Jul 7, 2012)

Thx for info Holly. I sent you a pm:!


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## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

H.M. Ward said:


> Dude, the marketing plan I got back was the equivalent of, 'we're gonna do stuff.'


You are going to love this very related video, this time from the music industry.


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## elalond (May 11, 2011)

You are awesome, Holly,   and I'm so glad that you haven't cave in. Look what you have done on your own. 
Interesting thing, about the paper and the holes in trade-publisher's marketing plan. I wonder if other have similar experiences. I mean, they must have, but I wish that they would have share them so generously as you do, too.


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## Kitty French (Dec 3, 2012)

Your posts make my eyes pop! Thank you for sharing all of the info, I've bookmarked this and also your release day strategy post. 
And CONGRATULATIONS. You must feel very proud. You make _me_ proud to be indie.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

What a wonderful post  I see you got a mention in Writing Magazine this month, citing how bestesellers don't necessarily come from the trads any more.

You are doing so well on your own, I'm not surprised you turned them down!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Great inspirational post.  I've forwarded to friends and fellow writers.


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## christianem (Sep 15, 2013)

Thank you so much for this post, Holly! I'm one of the newbies you helped so I know from experience that your advice is gold.

I actually tried lessening the time I spend posting on my FB page, thinking I should be writing more. Now I need to rethink my priorities.

Just want to know two things (but it's also okay if you can't answer):
Do you boost posts for increased engagement or spend money on FB ads for increased sales?
Do you grow your mailing list organically or do you think it's a good idea to include newsletter sign up links as a Rafflecopter giveaway option (downside being your mailing list won't be organic)?

Thank you again and I hope you keep wowing us!


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

H.M. Ward said:


> My first book cost me $125 to produce. I was butt poor from a theology degree that cost well over six figures. I didn't have extra money to mess around with.


What's with all the theology degrees? (I have one, too, also Joanna Penn).


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks for posting Holly. Fantastic information.

Man, I really need to kick my butt in gear. 

As for paper, wasn't the point of a recent post by a certain trad pub insider that paper is 70% of the book market? (Not going into the livestock theme!) Could he be... wrong? Or untruthful?


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> As for paper, wasn't the point of a recent post by a certain trad pub insider that paper is 70% of the book market? (Not going into the livestock theme!) Could he be... wrong? Or untruthful?


Neither. Paper is 70%. Of the ENTIRE book market. Unless I misunderstood the citation, that would include textbooks, nonfiction, coffee table books, self-help books, atlases, etc. Things that have no business being considered when trying to analyze the fiction market. Just as unpublished aspiring writers have no business being considered when analyzing writers' income statistics. Didn't stop some people from doing an analysis with them in it though.

Just as with the income statistics that folks have parroted since, it's a simple matter of seeing a statistic you like and not looking any deeper into it to see whether it truly applies.

Of course, I could be wrong.


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## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

Love motivational posts and this is one of the best I've read in a long, long time. Congratulations on all your success, Holly. You totally deserve it.


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## Theresaragan (Jul 1, 2011)

Great post, Holly. Love it!!! Thanks for sharing.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

This is great stuff. But it's also creeping me out a bit at just how popular you are.

You see, tonight a couple more short stories went free for me at Amazon, so I decided to check out their pages, and on one of them, I noticed that the blurb was missing a couple of words. So I logged into Author Central to fix it, and decided while I was there to check out the pages of my other books to make sure their blurbs were correct, had proper spacing, etc.

And as I checked out my "Eight Hour Fiction" (from the Konrath challenge) page, I noticed this at the bottom:










Now, a couple of things to keep in mind.

1. The page I was looking at is for a science fiction book

2. I don't look in the "Romance" section. Ever.

3. Whenever I close my browser, all of my cache, history, and cookies are deleted, so each time I go to Amazon, I have to login fresh.

4. The only books I'd looked at were four of my own science fiction books (I have one 'romance/coming of age book, but I didn't browse it tonight)

So, to make a short story really long, you are so popular that you are bleeding into the science fiction genre lol. Either that, or the overwhelming majority of my readers are females who are very much into romance. When I clicked the arrow to the right, the next set of books that scrolled across my screen were all sci-fi titles and horror story.

I'm sure there's a plausible explanation, but I choose to believe that you've done so well that everyone at Amazon browses your books at some point while checking out my lame attempts to be an author .

Also, I'm in complete awe of the 500+ reviews (and the overall ratings) on each of these books.


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## lee27 (Mar 3, 2011)

This is success. I don't mean JUST the sales. I mean knowing where you want to go and where you don't. And that work ethic.


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## giftedrhonda (Jan 3, 2014)

This is an amazing, inspirational post. Thank you for sharing!!! I find it so encouraging to see all this transparency lately. We can't make informed decisions unless we have more info.


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

I love how you have a theology degree, and focus on writing such deeply human themes such as grief, loss, and love. No wonder your readers resonate so strongly with your work!

Congrats on the ongoing insane success, and thanks for sharing such an inspirational message!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you on the work week breakdown, Holly, and on the insight into paper. 

One of the things about a paper edition is it shoves the book up to the beginning of your author page -- I may unpublish one of my paper editions in light of your comment because I hate it (low seller) being near the top of my author page and displacing a better selling book that is ebook only (as it is too short on its own for paper).


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## Σ (Jul 27, 2013)

blakebooks said:


> That's very interesting about paper, Holly. It echoes what I'm hearing. The rhetoric in the biz is that ebooks are only 30%, so you're really missing out. Could be if you're an airport author where huge sales go out on paperback through pre-flight gift shops. But my gut has been saying for a lot of time that most of the money for most genres that don't sell well in an airport is in ebooks. Of course, Hugh's report, which is awesome (I'm listening to his podcast right now), covers Amazon only, so it's possible there's a different experience out there we as ebook authors (and that's what we mostly are) are missing - the Walmart, airport, bookstore thing. But my hunch is, not so much.


This podcast? Or?


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## Paul Kohler (Aug 14, 2013)

Great inspiration, Holly. In your position, I agree that the offer was a No-Go. With what you've built up over the years, their offer was a bit of a face slap.

Suppose that offer came to you early on in your writing career, when your "list" was maybe a few hundred, I bet you take the offer. Heck, I would if I was offered that today. With what you've built up over the years, their offer was a bit of a face slap.  

Good for your for standing your ground though. I love these inspiration posts the most. Makes me feel like writing for 3 hours a day, and then going to my full time job is all worth it!


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

What an inspiring post, Holly!

So, basically they mention $1,000,000 to sound dramatic, but divided by 3 books it's really only $333,000 for each book and not even that if you factor in the time it takes to write the books and market, etc. By doing it yourself you'd make that in a month or less.

They tried to be slick, but you caught them with their pants down.

I love it!


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Holly, you are greatness.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

Congrats!  You are an inspiration!  Thanks for sharing.

Jodi


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> When I turned down that first 6 figure offer, I was still broke. FYI. I did math and trusted my gut. Then I waffled, b/c ppl told me I was stupid on passing up a sure thing. They sounded like they were a walking talking publisher billboard. Then Bella and Mr. Kobo talked to me and I had to overpower my very aggressive agent, who then gave me a guilt trip.
> 
> Saying no is hard.


More proof that agents work for the publishers, not the authors.


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

This is amazing, Holly.  Congratulations on all your success and thanks for sharing it with us.

I have a number of friends published by Big Six (well Five, now) houses, people who got big six figure deals.  And then their marketing plans turn out to be...nonexistent.  You summed it up absolutely when you said that most of the publishing houses these days seem to have a marketing plan that consists of 'Umm, well...we have a plan.  We'll send books places and email people and buy displays in bookstores.'

Which.....helpful.  Whee.


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## Paul Draker (Sep 11, 2013)

You. Are. So. Awesome.

Forget the success. It's the confidence and self-respect I salute.

The success is a by-product.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks for sharing your info, Holly. Loved the post. I have a question and I hope it hasn't been answered already, but I'm at work and haven't had a chance to read the whole thread. (I'll try to when I get home.) But when you say you connected on FB with readers--where did they come from to begin with?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

DGS said:


> You are going to love this very related video, this time from the music industry.


This. Is. Awesome!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Amazing as always, Holly!


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2014)

A successful self-published author is some one who will work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week for some one else.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Michael Kingswood said:


> Neither. Paper is 70%. Of the ENTIRE book market. Unless I misunderstood the citation, that would include textbooks, nonfiction, coffee table books, self-help books, atlases, etc. Things that have no business being considered when trying to analyze the fiction market. Just as unpublished aspiring writers have no business being considered when analyzing writers' income statistics. Didn't stop some people from doing an analysis with them in it though.
> 
> Just as with the income statistics that folks have parroted since, it's a simple matter of seeing a statistic you like and not looking any deeper into it to see whether it truly applies.
> 
> Of course, I could be wrong.


Yes, and it is even more insidious than this. That 70% figure comes from the ISBN database. But most ebooks don't have ISBNs so they are not included in the 100% which that 70% gets calculated from.


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## Cege Smith (Dec 11, 2011)

Thank you for generously sharing this information, Holly. You are truly an inspiration!


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks, Holly! That was awesome to read.

Between you and Hugh Howey, it confirms that I've made the right choice.

4.5+ million books? Wow! I'd be happy if I can sell 10K in a year.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

AngryGames said:


> This is great stuff. But it's also creeping me out a bit at just how popular you are.
> 
> You see, tonight a couple more short stories went free for me at Amazon, so I decided to check out their pages, and on one of them, I noticed that the blurb was missing a couple of words. So I logged into Author Central to fix it, and decided while I was there to check out the pages of my other books to make sure their blurbs were correct, had proper spacing, etc.
> 
> ...


bwuhahahahha!!!!


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Annette_g said:


> What a wonderful post  I see you got a mention in Writing Magazine this month, citing how bestesellers don't necessarily come from the trads any more.


I did? I'll have to go find it.  I love how ppl over here know stuff about me b4 I do. The 1st time I made the NYT list, I didn't know. KB members were congratulating me and I had no idea what was going on. lol



Richard Stooker said:


> A traditional publisher not having a marketing plan to sell a book wouldn't deter me from signing a deal
> if the money was right. I already realize they're stuck in the past.
> 
> However, I'd be afraid of the contract terms. Very afraid.
> ...


Good point! I skipped that part. We'd already agreed on noncompete and branding issues. The money wasn't in line with what I could do on my own, which is why it came down to the marketing plan - the actual execution of selling the book.



MaryMcDonald said:


> Thanks for sharing your info, Holly. Loved the post. I have a question and I hope it hasn't been answered already, but I'm at work and haven't had a chance to read the whole thread. (I'll try to when I get home.) But when you say you connected on FB with readers--where did they come from to begin with?


I don't pay for FB ads. I've tried it a few times and the results are the same with other PPC ads. BAD. It was WOM. It pretty much started with LOOK AT WHAT CRAZY HOLLY IS DOING NOW. lol. I had three social circles - photographers, retails store owners, and theologians. My 1st book was YA PNR, so not their thing. There's a morbid fascination to see if someone will succeed or fail, so they followed my page.



ameliasmith said:


> What's with all the theology degrees? (I have one, too, also Joanna Penn).


Fo shizzle. High fives to the preacher dudes. 



christianem said:


> Thank you so much for this post, Holly! I'm one of the newbies you helped so I know from experience that your advice is gold.
> 
> I actually tried lessening the time I spend posting on my FB page, thinking I should be writing more. Now I need to rethink my priorities.
> 
> ...


I DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON FB. It may work ok for a local market, but not a world market. 
My email list grows organically. I neglected it for the 1st year, so it's about 2 yrs old now.
I have done Rafflecopter giveaways, but it wasn't for the email capture. I think it's better to have a list of die hards. They act differently than ppl who were added by other means b/c THEY WANT TO BE THERE. <--That part is major.


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## ToniD (May 3, 2011)

Thanks Holly for sharing the journey.

I was going to say that it must have taken guts to turn down those offers, but upon reflection I’d say it simply took brains.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for sharing all this! You rock hard.


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## AnneMarie Novark (Aug 15, 2010)

Awesome post. Thanks for sharing. You ROCK!!!


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## S.K. Falls (Jun 17, 2013)

I <3 your story so hard, Holly. YAY!  You're really kicking arse and taking names. Congratsssss!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Fascinating all the extra comments on Print. And I think the oft quoted 70% was for either 2011 or 2012. Amazing (and super scary if you were a heavy print author) to watch the tipping point actually arrive!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Michael Kingswood said:


> Neither. Paper is 70%. Of the ENTIRE book market. Unless I misunderstood the citation, that would include textbooks, nonfiction, coffee table books, self-help books, atlases, etc. Things that have no business being considered when trying to analyze the fiction market. Just as unpublished aspiring writers have no business being considered when analyzing writers' income statistics. Didn't stop some people from doing an analysis with them in it though.
> 
> Just as with the income statistics that folks have parroted since, it's a simple matter of seeing a statistic you like and not looking any deeper into it to see whether it truly applies.
> 
> Of course, I could be wrong.





Cherise Kelley said:


> Yes, and it is even more insidious than this. That 70% figure comes from the ISBN database. But most ebooks don't have ISBNs so they are not included in the 100% which that 70% gets calculated from.


Thanks for that breakdown, Michael and also this ^^^ Cherise. I don't remember that blog post mentioning all this about paper books, but I could have missed it, wandering around the feedlot like I do. 

Now I'm not so worried about getting a print edition done.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

What an inspiration. Thank you for taking time to share.


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## jen meyers (Jul 28, 2011)

This is SO AWESOME, Holly. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm constantly telling writers that publishers do virtually no marketing, that you can't use that as your reason to go traditional because it's just not going to happen unless the pub thinks you're the Next Big Thing, but they are still under the disillusion that traditional pub comes with marketing. 

I'm thrilled for your success! Here's to it continuing!


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## Carol M (Dec 31, 2012)

Cool! Awesome! Thanks for the encouraging post!


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## Wo3lf (Jan 30, 2013)

Your mind-numbing output alone is inspiring. Thanks for sharing, Holly.


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## Elisabeth Grace (Feb 14, 2014)

Congrats on all your success and thanks for sharing your experience with the rest of us! All of this transparency really helps us all make the right decisions for ourselves!


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## JaroldWilliams (Jan 9, 2014)

I did not know that your degree was in theology. That gives me hope because mine is also in theology.

Keep up the good work.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

There's one other huge thing that I wanted to mention, and that's the fans. Being indie means I can release faster and for less. Can you imagine a trad pub trying to release a book every other week? Or even once a month? The fans LOVE having so much to read and not waiting very long. Plus I have the option to put anything I want on sale, whenever I want. These aren't minor facets of the big picture, they're huge. I've also dabbled with fans actually influencing the story line. That has been amazing. They got to chose major things - did this person sleep with this person, is this person gay, should the dark nature of a character be toned down, etc. 

An offer has to be really attractive to risk my fans, and it is a risk. The publisher could totally derail things and piss off my fan base. For me, that's a huge risk and it's just not worth it. Notice I said risk several times. You're risking everything you've made when you hand your stuff over to someone else. 

A couple of you guys said you'll be at RT and BEA. Totally come say hi!!!


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Brenna said:


> Yeah, anyway you choose it's a risk. That's the key to remember. EITHER way is a risk. You gambled one choice over the other (in an educated way) and ended up winning. Well done and we fans appreciate it  Wish I was going to RT or BEA... will you be at RWA?


Yup, I'll be at RWA too. 

And I don't mean either way it's a risk. I mean it's a risk to hand your hard work off to a publisher. I'm one of the only whack jobs who thinks so, which is why I posted that thought. By the time a pub notices you to make you to make an offer, you already have fans in tow. You risk your fans, your brand, and everything else by handing it over to them. No matter what, that risk is there. When I voiced that concern, they were shocked. It takes longer to build a loyal fan base and a few ill thought moves can alienate them and bring it all down.


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## Sara Fawkes (Apr 22, 2012)

I love this thread!!!


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## christianem (Sep 15, 2013)

Thank you! I felt guilty about not boosting posts and not using giveaways to boost mailing list numbers but what you said totally made sense.


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

Thank you, for this and the release day list!  It's inspiring.


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## Rich Amooi (Feb 14, 2014)

I love it. Thanks for sharing.


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## JDrennen (Nov 20, 2013)

You have given me hope, Holly. I'm going to keep at it until something sticks.

Jerri


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## Toonldy (May 23, 2011)

This is an amazing post!
You deserve all the success you have worked for so hard!


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## LynnRayeHarris (May 23, 2013)

Thanks for all you've shared, Holly.  I'm such a lurker here, but I'm vowing to get better.  I'm not new at publishing (20 books with Harlequin) though I'm new to self-publishing.  And I'm *excited* by what I've done in the last 6 months.  It's incredible to be in charge of your own marketing and work.  Such a rush!

Lynn


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

H.M. Ward said:


> There's one other huge thing that I wanted to mention, and that's the fans. Being indie means I can release faster and for less. Can you imagine a trad pub trying to release a book every other week? Or even once a month? The fans LOVE having so much to read and not waiting very long. Plus I have the option to put anything I want on sale, whenever I want. These aren't minor facets of the big picture, they're huge. I've also dabbled with fans actually influencing the story line. That has been amazing. They got to chose major things - did this person sleep with this person, is this person gay, should the dark nature of a character be toned down, etc.
> 
> An offer has to be really attractive to risk my fans, and it is a risk. The publisher could totally derail things and p*ss off my fan base. For me, that's a huge risk and it's just not worth it. Notice I said risk several times. You're risking everything you've made when you hand your stuff over to someone else.
> 
> A couple of you guys said you'll be at RT and BEA. Totally come say hi!!!


Congratulations. Your post on covers was eye opening; your post when your sales really started to take off was another winner, your book bomb one was great, and now this. Thank you for sharing. 

Praying your health issues clear up, and keep enjoying your journey.

I believe releasing faster is huge for building your fan base, and giving those die hards something new to purchase. We can do it better and faster, (cue up the sound track for the bionic man).


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your story with us, Holly.  I've said it before, but I have so much respect for you for sticking to your guns and going with what is right for you.  

Here's hoping that this year sees even more success (and better health!) for you!


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## Kilburn Hall (Jan 13, 2012)

Holly-
Very fatual article for once about the reality of ebook publishing and or being an "indie author." I would just like tom add the following.

I have been suggesting to new "indie" authors for years but you know no one listens to you. It's like telling a young child not to touch the stove because the stove is hot and they will get burned. Your article is absolutely, the most correct information for indie authors wanting to break into the business. And it is a business. You have to approach it as a business. Part of being an ""indie" author means you are now the head of your own publishing company, your own "brand." For example: Rho Agenda. Who would try to run a successful business without hiring people to work for them? This means hiring people to do your website design, other marketing, layout, eBook formatting, cover art. What you failed to mention is that traditional publishers have all this infrastructure which is why they take the majority of your royalties. Yeah, it might be great hearing that Amazon will pay you 70-percent royalties but by the time you pay the people who you hire to deliver your quality product, indie authors make about the same as they would with traditional publishing. Think of it this way. Most jobs you have to have a resume. An eBook is an indie authors resume. It shows the traditional publishers what you can do or cannot do. Sorry that it has to be this way folks, it is what it is. I wish there weren’t a million wannabee authors who think they can write. I wish there were snake oil salesmen like John Locke, a self-made millionaire before he started writing whose work is more marketing than penmanship. But that's the reality. Richard Phillips and I, both trained researchers and writers are up against a million, perhaps billion wannabee writers, all who think they can write, and make a fortune selling eBooks. The reality is, for you new eBook authors, you will spend $2000 to Create Space to put out a quality book and make $1400 in return. On average. There's just too much competition. Too many online authors. So, as Richard suggests, you need to use Amazon KDP to publish your book and use your book sales to attract a contract from a quality traditional publisher like Penquin (as John Locke did). If you have talent you will be found out. If you do not- you will be found out. Thanks Richard for such an excellent article about the realities of self-publishing. One last thing: if you are an indie author you want to avoid Author House, iUniverse, Kensington and other rip off publishers. I recommend Kirkus editing services and Kirkus Reviews and Create Space. It will cost you money but then- you are running a business.


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## AmberDa1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks for sharing, Holly! Such an inspiration and congrats on your success


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Kilburn Hall said:


> You have to approach it as a business. Part of being an ""indie" author means you are now the head of your own publishing company, your own "brand."


Damn straight. I totally agree with you.



> This means hiring people to do your website design, other marketing, layout, eBook formatting, cover art.


I did my websites myself. I originally handcoded them.
I did my marketing myself and was able to do it cheaper and better (how do I know, see original post)
I did the layout myself
I did the ebook formatting myself
I shot and created the covers myself

I know the cost and the man hours that went into these things. It's mind boggling that it takes them 6 months to fast track a book. That's not fast.



> What you failed to mention is that traditional publishers have all this infrastructure which is why they take the majority of your royalties.


It did not cost me that much of my earnings to do these things and do them well. Even if I hired out, it's a one time fee not a lifetime of lost royalties.



> but by the time you pay the people who you hire to deliver your quality product, indie authors make about the same as they would with traditional publishing.


In my experience that is completely and totally not true. They don't even come close, which is why we're not doing business together.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

mrv01d said:


> Here's the link to the pre-release checklist she mentioned: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,152565.0.html
> 
> And here's Elle Casey's list (which is pretty similar actually): http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=170327.0


Thanks, mrv01d!

(Tip: use the "bookmark" button at the top of the thread to save these threads. I've bookmarked both of those... plus this one.)

Thanks for this inspiring thread, Holly!


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

Holly, you are so inspiring for all you've accomplished and for your generosity in sharing! There's a lot to learn in this business and it's so nice to hear the truth about the reality of the traditional side as it stands today. Things sure have changed in the last three years. Power to the Indies!

And I totally agree about fans. They are awesome supporters!

I hope your health continues to improve so you can keep amazing us even more!


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## jimbro (Jan 10, 2014)

Drew said:_ "There is no earthly reason at all to hand over 94% royalties *for life* to get simple one-time services."_

She means: *Life plus 70 years*.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Holly, you are an absolute inspiration! Thank you so much for sharing!  I was having a bad/ low energy/ depressing day, and this is exactly what I needed to see.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

My total costs for 2013 came to 2.12% of my royalties. That includes $1400 for an audiobook to be narrated, almost $700 in adobe Creative Suite subscription that I'd have regardless, websites that I'd have to have as an author indie or trade published, plus, I recovered about 10 books twice each in 2013 (my second biggest expense was fonts/stock images/and PS brushes/styles -- i.e. covers). The amount that actually went to new books produced and not overhead (again, a significant portion of which is I would have born as a writer and not a publisher) was less than .2%. The bigger my backlist gets, the bigger my annual margin gets if I maintain the same output.


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

Seriously, no snark intended, what on earth could you spend $2,000 for on a single print book? I honestly don't think I could spend that much if I tried. 

Createspace has free templates available to lay out the book's interior. The editing is already paid for (or it should be b/c I'm assuming you've had it edited before doing the digital version). 

Unless someone is paying really high fees for formatting and covers, I just can't figure out where these high numbers come from. I've actually never spent anything on producing a print book since I do the cover layout and interior formatting myself.


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## AriadneW (Feb 16, 2013)

It could cost $2000 possibly if you bought one of the Createspace editing packages and formatting packages and I don't know what else. I don't know anyone who would do that though as it's cheaper to find your own.


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

AriadneW said:


> It could cost $2000 possibly if you bought one of the Createspace editing packages and formatting packages and I don't know what else. I don't know anyone who would do that though as it's cheaper to find your own.


I never realized those packages they offer were so expensive. That is just ...


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## Book Master (May 3, 2013)

I started by using facebook and only facebook to connect to readers outside of my social circles. There are other ways to do that, but I'm a big believer in don't wait for them to come to you. 

My first book cost me $125 to produce. I was butt poor from a theology degree that cost well over six figures. I didn't have extra money to mess around with. 

I had a big NY agent for my 1st book and was looking at the traditional route. I told her to pull it--I wanted to publish it myself. (Many thanks to Joe Konrath and his awesome blog).

I work about 80 hours a week. I have two assistants that help me manage paperwork. I just hired them b/c I had been going nuts trying to do everything myself. Hubby helps me with all the numbers stuff and when I get sick (I've been fighting an illness for the past 3 years) that knocks me on my *ss periodically.

If you forget everything else in this post, remember this:

If you don’t have the gall to believe in yourself and your work, no one else will. 

Bring it.

Own it.

And don't worry about mistakes, because they're the stepping stones to success. I notice I never say 'I failed' - I say 'well, I jacket that up,' and try to figure out where it went wrong so I can fix it. Failure is an excellent teacher. Learn from it and try again.

I feel like crap today, so forgive my typos and such. I wanted to take the time to share this b/c stuff like this helped me. I'd see ppl's posts about how they were getting ahead, buying a laptop with their earnings, or read Joe's blog and seeing his income, and it made me keep going. I'm glad I did. 

Being an Indie completely and totally rocks. 

 ^^^^"Oh my, What she said!^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is the Key that she uses to succeed with the drive and determination along with it! This is what it is all about.......

BM


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## Evie Love (Jan 5, 2014)

I think maybe the nonsense about it costing $2,000 to self publish a book is a hold over from the days when self publishing meant printing up a bunch of books at your own expense and storing them in your garage until you could sell them? Obviously with POD and ebooks, this has no bearing on the current reality, but some people don't like to acknowledge change. 

My all time favorite weird argument about the cost of self publishing was an article that claimed self publishing would cost you thousands of dollars, then said your self published book would be edited solely by your mom, have a picture of your cat on the cover, be terribly formatted, and have no marketing push behind it. 

But... where did the thousands of dollars go? What could you possibly have spent them on? Did you pay your mom $2,000 to edit your book? Did you withdraw $2,000 from your bank account, throw it in the air like money confetti and scream, "WHEE! I SELF PUBLISHED A BOOK!" 

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## AriadneW (Feb 16, 2013)

minxmalone said:


> I never realized those packages they offer were so expensive. That is just ...


I could see how people would buy them if they didn't know there were other options. But, yeah.


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

Kilburn Hall said:


> This means hiring people to do your website design, other marketing, layout, eBook formatting, cover art. What you failed to mention is that traditional publishers have all this infrastructure which is why they take the majority of your royalties.


This is beyond ridiculous I had to comment.

YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR OWN WEBSITE EVEN IF YOU'RE TRAD PUBBED! Do you honestly think NY pubs create, manage and update all of their authors' websites, social media and emails? NO!

They do print layout (assuming they even bother doing print these days), ebook formatting & cover art, and you may end up getting something really craptastic -- crappy cover art, shitty formatting job with horrible errors, etc. and there's NOTHING you can do about it. Why? Because you're just a writer, and they're not, which means they know what they're doing and you don't!

Oh and if you're lucky to get some decent editing. Not all publishers bother these days.

So for formatting your books & slapping some cover, they get to keep 75% of net? No way.


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## Jacqueline_Sweet (Jan 10, 2014)

I've definitely seen professional cover artists that I would love to give $2,000 to but--checks bank account, moths flies out--I think I'll keep using stock photos and my own sweat for now.

And Photoshop. Sweat is _terrible_ image manipulation tool.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Threads like this are why I check the Cafe every morning before I do anything else! Thank you so much for the inspiration, hope, and motivation.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Brenna said:


> Umm whaaaat? You do realize that as an indie, you pay for the production of the book ONCE. You pay an editor ONCE. An artist ONCE. Etc. etc. With trad pub, you pay that fee OVER AND OVER by giving them 75% of the net royalties of your book for the life of the copyright.


You know what? Just smile and tell him, "Yeah, I see the emperor's new clothes, too."


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> Thanks for that breakdown, Michael and also this ^^^ Cherise. I don't remember that blog post mentioning all this about paper books, but I could have missed it, wandering around the feedlot like I do.
> 
> Now I'm not so worried about getting a print edition done.


Whoa, hey now. No reason not to do a print edition, and many many good reasons TO do one. Truth of the matter is, a lot of folks still like and buy print, whether it's 70% of the market or 5%, and you don't want to turn them away. Plus having that print version on your product page makes the product look more substantial and your ebook price look like more of a deal. Print formatting takes a little learning, but it's not hard. Seriously, git 'r done.


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

Evie Love said:


> My all time favorite weird argument about the cost of self publishing was an article that claimed self publishing would cost you thousands of dollars, then said your self published book would be edited solely by your mom, have a picture of your cat on the cover, be terribly formatted, and have no marketing push behind it.


You joke, but for my first novel, I hired an editor/proofreader. After all the editing was said and done, my Mom read the book and found literally a couple dozen problems and errors that the editor missed. So now I don't hire an editor - I send it to Mom (and some carefully selected anal friends and writing compadres). If I can get a better job from her, for free, why not?


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## Massimo Marino (Oct 14, 2013)

And this works at every level. Don't believe you need to be in the $Million gang to refuse signing prehistoric contracts.

I'm in the top #2000 authors in Sci-Fi since June 2012, I've been a few times in the top 100. I was contacted by a small/medium publisher with same chat, same non-existing marketing plan, and a $2000 advance (10% royalties).

The advance would be covered by $20,000 sales, and marketing on ME, same as before. A simple math shows that in the same period I would sell $20,000 I would give $18,000 to the publisher instead of keeping those in my pockets. There's no added value at all unless publishers understand that PRINTING and sending to PRESS your novel has NO VALUE. What's valuable is for them to have a stellar marketing plan to put you and your novels in front of as many as possible readers in your genre and nearby ones (Indies don't exactly write in genres silos). 

I have a 93% appreciation rate from my readers, sold about 5000 copies in a year. It's a good sample to believe that the same appreciation rate would come with 1,000,000 copies sold in a year, too. What H M Ward experience and rational works at ANY level, even for a $10,000 range.

One publishers even had the guts to ask ME about MY marketing plan to sell THEIR book once they'd published me. CRAZY.


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## Matt Marshall (Feb 1, 2014)

This is my first post here, and one of the first threads I've read on the board (Hugh Howey's blog had a link).

It's really motivational to have some successful authors explain their experiences. It makes the process of getting one's work out there much less daunting, be it through the self-pubbed route or the trad route. Some staggering sales figures flying around too.

A great resource & one to be bookmarked!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Matt Marshall said:


> This is my first post here, and one of the first threads I've read on the board (Hugh Howey's blog had a link).
> 
> It's really motivational to have some successful authors explain their experiences. It makes the process of getting one's work out there much less daunting, be it through the self-pubbed route or the trad route. Some staggering sales figures flying around too.
> 
> A great resource & one to be bookmarked!


Matt, never give up. I did, thirty years ago. Wrote what I thought was three pretty good short stories and was starting a novel based on them. My now ex-wife kept telling me how impossible it was to get published and I gave up.

My wife today supported and motivated me to give it another try. This was last July. Since my short stories and partial novel were saved on a 5-1/2" floppy disk and our computer didn't have a drive for those dinosaurs, I started writing my first novel from scratch, from memory. Which at my age, isn't all that great.

Today, just 7 months later, I have two books in the top 10 for Action/Adventure Sea Adventures and both are in the top 100 for Mysteries and I'm actually making about $2800 a month. My third will be released next month and my fans are already clamoring for it. Independence Day is going to have a whole new meaning this year.

It IS possible!!


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Heather Lori Harding said:


> Threads like this are why I check the Cafe every morning before I do anything else! Thank you so much for the inspiration, hope, and motivation.


High five.

You and me both!



Michael Kingswood said:


> Whoa, hey now. No reason not to do a print edition, and many many good reasons TO do one. Truth of the matter is, a lot of folks still like and buy print, whether it's 70% of the market or 5%, and you don't want to turn them away. Plus having that print version on your product page makes the product look more substantial and your ebook price look like more of a deal. Print formatting takes a little learning, but it's not hard. Seriously, git 'r done.


Exactly. And the feeling of being in control of your own project is priceless.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> The reality is, for you new eBook authors, you will spend $2000 to Create Space to put out a quality book and make $1400 in return. On average.


I'm probably harder than most people here on the quality of print books because I used to do it for a living, but typesetting a simple narrative book is just not that hard if you spend a little bit of time doing research and stick to a simple format with mainstream fonts (when in doubt: Garamond). Maybe if you were doing a non-fiction book with a lot of charts and graphics and inserts. That's a totally different beast than what 99% of indies are doing though.

I will say there is nothing that would benefit indie authors more than learning a bit about the proper way to use a word processor. 99% of formatting problems I've seen people have on various boards amount to "I didn't use a stylesheet to format text." I should probably put together a little course on that because it's really not hard, it's just having things pointed out.

Also, the money isn't in Createspace. It's in ebooks and they're even easier to format for narrative.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

OMG, Katie, I love you.

I learned Quark eons ago in a graphics/web/print/digital animation course I took to learn how to make webpages for my hobby site (1997). 

I was curious about layout and it was part of the curriculum. I never used it. Lately, I've been familiarizing myself with Scribus to format the interior of books for CreateSpace to sell alongside my ebooks.

It's not rocket science.

It takes focus, but it's pretty straightforward.

I'm gobbling up as much knowledge as I can about it.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2014)

Quote:
_"The reality is, for you new eBook authors, you will spend $2000 to Create Space to put out a quality book and make $1400 in return. On average."
_

Here's my cost:

$900 for 200 paperback copies of 244-page book (included shipping from Florida book printer to CA). Per copy cost: $4.50

Here's my profit:

$1,892 Book priced at $19.95. Amazon paid me $13.96, about 70% royalty (yes, for paperback book). Amazon also paid shipping.

By going to a book printer instead of CreateSpace or POD, I made more money than the printer.

When I sell out, I repeat the process, which I have done several times.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Okey Dokey said:


> Quote:
> _"The reality is, for you new eBook authors, you will spend $2000 to Create Space to put out a quality book and make $1400 in return. On average."
> _
> 
> ...


I would be very interested in a separate post thread on how this works. How do you get Amazon to buy and warehouse the book and pay your shipping? Or do you house the books, Amazon gives you boxes you just drop off at the post office or  Also, what type of file do you have to deliver to the printer (I imagine they don't make it as easy as giving them the same PDFs for cover and interior that one gives to Createspace).

Thanks!!!


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## PC Donan (Feb 15, 2014)

Very inspiring. I felt depressed because I only sold 10 books when I launched my book in late Nov 2013. After reading your board, I felt a jolt of hope. My e-book is not sunshine and roses. It is about war and its horrors. So, it might be harder to sell, but I believe in it, so I'll keep pushing. Thanks again.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Massimo Marino said:


> One publishers even had the guts to ask ME about MY marketing plan to sell THEIR book once they'd published me. CRAZY.


Oh, my. Now _that's_ funny!


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Matt, never give up. I did, thirty years ago. Wrote what I thought was three pretty good short stories and was starting a novel based on them. My now ex-wife kept telling me how impossible it was to get published and I gave up.
> 
> My wife today supported and motivated me to give it another try. This was last July. Since my short stories and partial novel were saved on a 5-1/2" floppy disk and our computer didn't have a drive for those dinosaurs, I started writing my first novel from scratch, from memory. Which at my age, isn't all that great.
> 
> ...


Great story, quite inspirational. And I love the bit about the 5.25" disks  .


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> . Since my short stories and partial novel were saved on a 5-1/2" floppy disk and our computer didn't have a drive for those dinosaurs, I started writing my first novel from scratch, from memory. Which at my age, isn't all that great.


I hope this might be of interest to anyone else who has books on old-style discs. This firm, Luxsoft in Cornwall in England, will do all sorts of disc conversions at a very reasonable price. I've used them a number of times for books on my old Amstrad discs and I was very pleased with the results.

You'll still have to go through the book and check everything is fine, because it's not an exact science, but it's much less work than typing the whole thing again and (at least if you live in the UK, as I do) cheaper than having it scanned. Even if you're not in the UK, the postal costs would not be prohibitive.

Here's the link: http://www.luxsoft.demon.co.uk/ The chap's name is Malcolm Surl. And he's lovely.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2014)

Christa:

I give a PDF file to the book printer.

Amazon does not warehouse the books. I list the book as an individual seller. Amazon notifies me when a book is sold. I mail the book.
In 14 days Amazon pay me about 70% and adds about $3.60 to reimburse me for my shipping cost.

If Amazon warehoused the book, then Amazon would pay me about 40 to 50%. And Amazon would take about 60 days to pay me.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks, Okey Dokey


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Okey Dokey, So, you warehouse the books yourself?

How do you list the book as an individual seller on Amazon?


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## Michael_J_Sullivan (Aug 3, 2011)

Great post Holly. Thank you for sharing and being such an inspiration to so many.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Very inspiring thread. Took me a couple hours to get through it. I think I'm going to try and write a novel. I've ben wanting to since I was 15, I believe, but got discourages. Primarily because I was so young at the time, and really had no idea what I was doing. Back then I wanted to write a WWII novel based on an American teenager's life, who lied about his age to join the effort. I think I got a few chapters in before forgetting about it. I may still have the file in my GMail. Recently I've had strong urges to write a spy or assassin thriller, but I always want to write a fictional war account memoir. The only thing holding me back is the lack of drive, and of course having spent four years studying computer engineering. I turn 24 soon, and I've spent nearly half my life reading more technical material than fiction. I have little confidence that I could write a meaningful genre book, and for it to not sound technical or dry as a water cracker.

--

I did notice someone mention Quark. Because I have a little experience in the design industry, Quark was abandoned as industry standard back when Adobe released their CS3 or CS2 version of InDesign, which has since been the industry standard for formatting. Before Adobe CC came along the license price was staggering. It does cost $20 a month but you can take a 30 day trial of it.

http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign.html

It's complex software. The learning curve is steep. It's also very powerful software.


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

LBrent said:


> Okey Dokey, So, you warehouse the books yourself?
> 
> How do you list the book as an individual seller on Amazon?


Sounds like they're part of the Amazon Associates program to me. Amazon Associates link


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Quark was just starting to be replaced by InDesign when I was learning it in 1997-1998, but since I was only interested in web stuff I hated the other 'boring' mandatory subjects.

We had to take Graphic Design (Design principles, Photoshop and Illustrator), Print Design (PrePress principles and Quark), Digital Animation (Premiere, After Effects, Flash and Lightwave), then we finally learned Web Design  (Dreamweaver, HTML, CSS, JavaScript and PHP).

I came into the class already knowing how to handcode HTML in NotePad Plus so I just wanted to learn more advanced web stuff to improve my hobby websites.

Now I'm glad I learned the rest, too, though. Little did I know that the rest would come in handy now. Lol


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

I keep checking into this thread because it's so durn inspiring. Ty Holly (if I can call you by your first name) for the original post as well as encouraging all the great discussion. Loving it


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

LBrent said:


> Quark was just starting to be replaced by InDesign when I was learning it in 1997-1998, but since I was only interested in web stuff I hated the other 'boring' mandatory subjects.
> 
> We had to take Graphic Design (Design principles, Photoshop and Illustrator), Print Design (PrePress principles and Quark), Digital Animation (Premiere, After Effects, Flash and Lightwave), then we finally learned Web Design (Dreamweaver, HTML, CSS, JavaScript and PHP).
> 
> ...


Sounds like some of the stuff that got tacked onto my CE courses, except I began learning all that stuff when I was 15. I did coincidentally do a short stint with Adobe a while back and was able to purchase the CS6 MC for really cheap. Their employee discounts are very sweet. All paid internships and jobs I've held on contractor basis (I'm fully employed now, thankfully) came with monthly allowances or yearly, wherein you could spend company money on learning materials. I picked up several books on Adobe products I knew little about, like Premiere. After Effects has come in really hands for motion graphics concerning chip models or software concepts. Of my own money I've probably spent close to 10K in the last five years for learning material.

Anyway, enough with the off topic banter.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

PC Donan said:


> Very inspiring. I felt depressed because I only sold 10 books when I launched my book in late Nov 2013. After reading your board, I felt a jolt of hope. My e-book is not sunshine and roses. It is about war and its horrors. So, it might be harder to sell, but I believe in it, so I'll keep pushing. Thanks again.


The first month that my first book was out, I made $69 on kdp. Starting small isn't bad.  You're in good company.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

AA2014 said:


> Sounds like some of the stuff that got tacked onto my CE courses, except I began learning all that stuff when I was 15. I did coincidentally do a short stint with Adobe a while back and was able to purchase the CS6 MC for really cheap. Their employee discounts are very sweet. All paid internships and jobs I've held on contractor basis (I'm fully employed now, thankfully) came with monthly allowances or yearly, wherein you could spend company money on learning materials. I picked up several books on Adobe products I knew little about, like Premiere. After Effects has come in really hands for motion graphics concerning chip models or software concepts. Of my own money I've probably spent close to 10K in the last five years for learning material.
> 
> Anyway, enough with the off topic banter.


High 5!


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## Sheluvspink (May 14, 2014)

This is so exciting. After having a TERRIBLE experience I had with a well known agent I signed with and a super long process trying to land another one I feel like not signing with an agent and getting a book deal is the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm so excited and ready to put in work. Thank you so much for sharing!


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Christa:
> 
> I give a PDF file to the book printer.
> 
> ...


Great information!


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks so much for sharing that!


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## Chinmoy Mukherjee (Apr 26, 2014)

You are an inspiration to all of us indie authors who are still earning only millions of Zimbabwean dollars.


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## KeraEmory (Feb 8, 2016)

Zombies!


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## MKK (Jun 9, 2015)

KeraEmory said:


> Zombies!




Or maybe some form of divine intervention from the book gods, intended to give aspiring writers a boost when their morale is down.


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## North Star Plotting (Jul 11, 2015)

Lots of knowledge here, thanks!


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## KeraEmory (Feb 8, 2016)

MKK said:


> Or maybe some form of divine intervention from the book gods, intended to give aspiring writers a boost when their morale is down.


As one of those aspiring ones, I was disheartened by the age of the thread. Isn't the landscape shifting pretty quickly? Just reading the KU 'earnings' type threads for Jan/Feb, it's enough to make one feel like we already missed the boat.


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## MKK (Jun 9, 2015)

KeraEmory said:


> ...it's enough to make one feel like we already missed the boat.


Self-published authors who were successful in the first phase of the boom benefited from greater/easier visibility and perhaps higher rates but they still had to produce a good book.

There will always be best-sellers, 'tis the nature of many readers to read what others have already read (and recommended). But a best-seller could be just as easily self-published as trad-published.

The $$ these days seems to be in reasonably fast and continuous production of decent material that readers want to read...and I think the self-pubs are better equipped to do that, at least for now.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

KeraEmory said:


> As one of those aspiring ones, I was disheartened by the age of the thread. Isn't the landscape shifting pretty quickly? Just reading the KU 'earnings' type threads for Jan/Feb, it's enough to make one feel like we already missed the boat.


Nah. This is still the best time in the history of ever to be a writer. We just have to work hard to reach our goals. Write good books, get great covers, target your market/genre properly, and repeat as many times as possible. There's no one standing in our way except ourselves.


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## eswrite (Sep 12, 2014)

Wow, big CONGRATS on those YUGE(!) sales numbers. The rest of us will go on dreaming...


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## KeraEmory (Feb 8, 2016)

Thanks for the encouraging viewpoints.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

I'd love to see an update on these numbers. What do you say H.M.? Are you up for it?


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## Jewelzee (Apr 22, 2015)

harker.roland said:


> I'd love to see an update on these numbers. What do you say H.M.? Are you up for it?


Holly is extremely successful and has very loyal fans. Her fans wanted more books from her than she could produce, so sometime last year she started partnering with other indie authors. (Partnering is probably the wrong word for this.) She approached other authors who wrote in similar genres (new adult romance), whose books were well liked, and who could write quickly and offered them a co-author deal. The stories are Holly's stories but written by the other author (and then revised with some content added on by Holly). The finished product then gets both H.M. Ward and the co-author's name on it. The co-author gets an advance plus royalties based on how the book performs.

(Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)

Here's the interview Holly did on the co-author deals: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-rivera/exclusive-hm-ward-to-laun_b_5414192.html

I don't know what her numbers are, but I imagine they're the same as or better than they were a year ago.

ETA: Wow, that article is from May 2014. Time flies! Since then she's had several co-authored books released. Most recent one was released for Valentine's Day 2 days ago, and she has another coming in March and that's on top of the ones she's writing herself in her numerous series. She's a busy lady and an inspiration.


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## blancheking (Oct 15, 2015)

Definitely one for the history books. Bookmarked for later


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

KeraEmory said:


> As one of those aspiring ones, I was disheartened by the age of the thread. Isn't the landscape shifting pretty quickly? Just reading the KU 'earnings' type threads for Jan/Feb, it's enough to make one feel like we already missed the boat.


The boat is still here, dude. They said the ship sailed with Amanda Hocking. I was too late to the party, too. IMHO the party is still raging.



harker.roland said:


> I'd love to see an update on these numbers. What do you say H.M.? Are you up for it?


12+ million. Most since 2013. Not bad considering this industry is constantly changing. Ride the wave to the very end. Then catch the next one and do it again.



Jewelzee said:


> The finished product then gets both H.M. Ward and the co-author's name on it. The co-author gets an advance plus royalties based on how the book performs.
> 
> (Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)


The coauthor projects have very unique payment terms. There's a payment and bonuses that out pays what some of the big 5 are handing out. The contracts coming to fruition now are a few years old. We've been working on those titles for over a year. Both coauthors put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into the books. They are all truly co-written. There's as much me as there is them in those titles. I did it for a chance to do something different and break out from my normal tales. It also gives the other authors a chance to be seen by more people and earn a decent paycheck while doing it. I'm not taking any new contracts at this time.

The first quarter of this year is finishing up older works and clearing the path for new things to come.  I have paper distribution now - that was in the works since 2013. I signed on middle of last year. First major paper release is this fall.

I've developed an app. It's just come out of beta. It allows for ebooks to be purchased and read inapp, along with chat rooms, and other fun stuff. I'll share how that goes when I have more data. The info I have says people are moving from ereaders to their phones. We'll see if that translates to direct sales via the app.

I'm looking at media options (been doing that for nearly 2 years), and several other things. Some work out, some aren't worth pursuing.

Oh! I started putting up 2 min tips on my youtube channel. I get so many ppl asking for help that I started compiling info over there. http://www.youtube.com/c/HMWardAuthor They start with the basics (query, blurb, platforms, etc) and build from there. I'm getting my topics from posts/ ppl asking questions over there. Feel free to ask stuff.


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## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

Holly, your confidence via hard work is always an inspiring breath of fresh air. Keep on kicking ass.


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