# Any Advice for Starting out in Stained Glass?



## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm on a pretty tight budget but I'm looking to take up stained glass.  I've done a bit of research and it seems like the biggest investment, besides the glass, is going to be a grinder.  I've seen that a lot of people recommend the Inland Wiz CG Grinder for starting out, but I'm also seeing people saying that it's better for people not really serious about doing a lot of work with them.  Now, I know just starting out that I'm not exactly serious about the craft yet, but I'd rather invest in something I can grow into than outgrow something and need to buy another later down the road.  The other, more professional suggestions are the Wizard IV and the Glastar All Star G8 which are both twice the price of the Inland.  Does anyone know enough about these to tell me whether the cheaper Inland will be enough for me starting out without worrying I'll outgrow it immediately?

I've already started the ball rolling by buying a Toyo glass cutter and some oil for it, but I'm a bit at a loss where to go from there.  I know I'll need some solder and some foil, but don't know a whole lot on the specifics there.  It sounds like I will also need some lead came for the framing of the pieces at the very least and the only places I've seen it for sale is in bulk.  I've also not really found a really good place to buy the actual glass, though I'll admit I haven't looked into that a whole lot yet and have been more focused on the equipment.  Does anyone know any good places to get this stuff online or have any tips for buying it?  Thanks!


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

No advice from me but good luck to you. Strained glass is beautiful and I once thought I wanted to experiment with it. Then I found out it was going to take a lot of work and tools, so I decided I wasn't ready to tackle anything that complex. Scrap-booking is more my speed.  I'm not sure where you could get supplies online but my local Hobby Lobby store used to carry soldering irons and sheets of glass about one foot square for small projects.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks!  It doesn't look too horribly complex, though I imagine once I get started it'll be surprisingly so.  As for tools, as far as I understand it if you're using came (which is an older technique) you really only need a glass cutter, the came, and a soldering iron with solder.... and the glass of course.  With the foil technique you need the foil and a glass grinder on top of everything else because the glass needs to be more precisely fit together and the edges of it need smoothing to accept the foil correctly.  It requires a lot more soldering, too, but for some reason it seems to be the recommended technique for beginners.  I guess it's to help you develop good habits early on instead of relying on the extra room for mistakes that came allows.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Sorry.  No advice.  But I am requesting pictures.  
deb


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I'll be sure to post some, though not sure there'll be anything to show for a while.  Unless people want pictures of my glass cutter!


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I recommend that you take a class before you invest much.
There should be some through local adult education or even from a professional glass studio.
My wife and I took one a number of years ago and then created several projects.
You don't need lead came to start - outside framing can be stiffened with a string of wire soldered against the copper foil - most glass artists use either lead came or copper foil but not mixed. 
You do not need a glass grinder - old school is to use a special pair of "pliers" that have soft heads that "nibble" off the excess glass.
Make sure that the solder is not resin core - that is used for electrical soldering and will leave a messy residue on the foil that will be hard to remove.
You would learn all this in a good class - and be introduced to sources for glass.
The real artwork is designing the use of selected glass to produce a nice product.
Good luck.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks!  I actually already took the plunge and did finally find a local place that sells glass and even do classes, but it was cost plus supplies for the class and I just didn't have the money for both.  Of course I say this after buying a grinder, but I hadn't found the place before I got it ordered.  All I really need now is a better soldering iron since the only one we have is for electronics and too low a wattage.  I'm hoping I can pick up what I'd have learned in a class through youtube videos and online how-tos.  I did meet someone through a friend on Facebook who does stained glass and is there for my more specific questions, too, so I'm hoping that'll be enough to start.  I'll probably take some classes later if I find myself out of my depth.

Since it always irks me when I do a Google search for something and see people asking a question I have on a forum then just posting "I figured it out!" without giving the solution they found, my start-up gear is as follows.  I'd list prices next to the items but I don't relish seeing it all tallied up.

Glastar All Star G8 Grinder
Glastar 7/32" Hand Foiler
Studio Pro 1" Running Pliers
Studio Pro 3/8" Breaker/Grozer Pliers
Studio Pro Foil Pattern Shears
Studio Pro 7/32 1.25 Black Back Copper Foil (I would have preferred Venture, but shipping was as much as the foil itself.)
CRL Toyo Thomas Grip Pattern Glass Cutter (Most prefer pistol grip, but this seemed like it'd have better maneuverability.)
CRL Glass Cutter Oil
Old Master's Flux
60/40 Solder
Weller 100PG 100 Watt Soldering Iron with 700° 3/8" Chisel Tip (I still need to get this bit, budget is getting tight though!)

The list kind of took a life of its own and grew over the past week, but I had already made the initial jump into it so I just kept adding items on to what I needed until I ended up with enough kit to probably set up a professional studio ><  Now all I need is glass... I do have a few pieces to work with, but it was mostly bought for practicing the cuts.  I may see if I can find a nice pattern to use with the colors I picked out so I don't waste money on scrap.

There are still two more items I'll probably need eventually.  I would also love to pick up some Pebeo Glass Marker Pens that let you oven bake to set the paint because I refuse to buy a kiln on top of all of this just to put lettering on glass.  I will also need a bottle of Black Patina for the solder eventually since I chose the black backed copper foil... plus I feel black solder looks better in a lot more applications than the natural color.  And last but by no means least, gotten a demo of a program called Glass Eye 2000 which I am loving... I'm trying to get all my ideas down within the 30-day trial because it'll be a while before I can justify the $150 they want for it ($295 - $1295 for the professional versions!).


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Make sure that you set aside at least 2-hour periods for the work.
This is not something that you do 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there.
Never rush yourself - you will make big time mistakes - just be calm and attentive.
It is actually a lot of fun.
I will take some pics and post some completed projects soon.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Ooo, I'd like that.  And yeah, it seems to be all about attention to detail and patience.  What I lack in the latter I tend to make up for in the former, so hopefully it'll balance out.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Wow!! That is quite a start.  You have pretty much more than what u will need. Here are some tips:
1.  Remember:  Glass tends to want to break in a straight line. Working curved cuts takes time. Turn over and tap along the cut; work your rubber runner slowly n evenly along the cut before snapping the line. 
2. Make sure you cut the pattern pieces precisely; removing all black outlines. If you don't you will have a piece too large to fit the planned space (ex: cabinet insert) and allow 1/8" around for expansion.
3.  Large pieces need metal support every foot or so. Your piece will break from the weight.
4.  Over fluxing will cause a lot of spitting/sputter. Also, iron too hot will cause lead to blacken or "cook" SLOW STEADY pace when soldering. 
5. Always grind in the proper direction. Going against the spin will cut the life of your diamond heads in half ($$).
6. Keep sponge wet, keep reservoir full and use coolant.
7. Eye wear a must. Keep the guard on your grinder. NEVER run your hand over your grid; shards will get you. 
GOOD LUCK!!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks for the tips!  I definitely don't know too much about the grinder yet, I'm hoping it comes with a manual of sorts.  I'm sure my first instinct would have been to run my finger along the edge to feel how smooth it got, thanks for saving me that pain!  When you say supports are you talking about came?  I know when I see larger pieces they tend to be done in what looks like several smaller windows pieced together in a whole, but is that using came or is it enough to just have the straight solder line with copper foil?  I've read that 700 degrees is about right for the soldering.  I still need to find a way to scrounge up one of those or I'll just be making glass puzzles.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Remember that lead came is soft.
The old masters used to put plaster in the came channels to stiffen the project.
Old came will droop from gravity if left to itself. So a new project using came will still have steel rods in the project to provide stability.  And notice that we went from wire with the foil to rods with the came.  Because the came itself adds enough weight to need more support.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Hm... okay, looks like I'll need to look up more on the type of support needed for larger pieces.  Not that I plan to go much over a foot in length any time soon.  I guess it makes sense that the came is soft, I never even considered that it might begin to droop.  Seems like it'd be better to frame them with something else.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Well the came is for containing the glass - what they used before copper foil.
But for structural integrity, a picture frame would do nicely.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

*GeoffThomas: Have we forgotten anything?*

Only thing I can think of is keeping the solder iron clean. The little brick is inexpensive.

Oh yeah....When your project is complete wash it and dry it good. Remove all oils and flux residue. ESPECIALLY if you are going to use a Patina to change the foil color.

***IF you decide to make anything using mirror: That is another whole lesson; just let us know.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I hadn't planned on anything with mirror yet, but that sounds interesting.  I'm currently Kindling through stained glass for dummies and getting some more tips from that, so hopefully I'll be decently set when it comes to my first project.  I keep procrastinating for some reason, but I figure once I'm through the book I'll dive in regardless of how ready I feel.  Money is the biggest issue right now, though... I've invested in all the bits and bobs and not left any for the actual glass!  I do have four sheets I got from a local place, though, so hoping I can kind of find something fun to do with that.  I'd like to find some cheap clear glass for practicing the cutting, too.

By the time I'm ready for it I'll likely be able to fit the iron into my budget.  I'm so bad at wanting to invest in the best, but it seems silly to not only handicap yourself but to set up the potential of needing to upgrade later when you could have just spent an extra 30% or so in the first place.  That starts to add up, though!


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Sounds like you are all set. I surely hope you like it after investing your money. EBAY cheap glass!!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Ooo, I didn't think of trying eBay for glass.  I'm still not sure what good prices even are on it, it's such a different thing to be shopping for that I literally have no sort of reference point for it.  I found a local place that I bought my first pieces from, figuring it'd be cheaper without the shipping.  And yeah, I do hope I enjoy it.  I hit my first pitfall and need to buy some plastic to cut my patterns out of.  Paper doesn't hold up well on that grinder.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

The price of glass is extremely variable - especially depending on quality and rarity.
A piece of German streaky will be much more expensive than a piece of bottle-bottom.
and wheat-grain bubbly is usually more expensive than some others.
And that would be just the diffs from the same source.
You need to be careful when shopping that you are comparing apples to apples.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Just to give you an idea of types, colors...etc.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/the-crystal-rose/m.html?_nkw=glass+sheet&_armrs=1&_from=R9&_ipg=&_sop=1&_dct=1&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Hm, those do seem relatively cheap... of course the shipping in a lot of cases is just as much as the piece of glass.  I guess that's where they get you in terms of shopping for it online which is what makes me wonder if it's better to source it locally.  And yeah, I have seen some glass that seems pretty unremarkable (to a beginner anyway) selling for $300 a sheet while others that seem just as complex in terms of colors are $6 a sheet.  I guess it's something that will come in time and I'll get to a point where I envy those pieces of glass selling for hundreds of dollars.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

You'll have a blast. Here's one place I used to get glass when I was till doing projects, LOVE this place! They have a blog, too, and often run specials:

http://www.delphiglass.com/

You can also get inexpensive glass at places like Hobby Lobby. Years and years ago I took a class--this is the first piece I ever made, it's all lead came with zinc framing and about 2.5x3 feet


kitten with blue window by amyshojai, on Flickr

When we built our house, I did the stained glass throughout. We've got 6 sets of 2'x6' window panels in the kitchen nook, large single panels in several of the bathrooms, and half a dozen lamp shades. A few links:

Front door--made this with scraps from all the other projects:
http://www.shojai.com/images/amycat3.jpg

A bathroom window, about 2 X 4 feet:
http://www.shojai.com/images/rosewindow2.jpg

The largest, in master bath, this is 4 feet x 6 feet
http://www.shojai.com/images/bluewindow.jpg


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Amyshojai:

VERY nice!!  Love the front door piece especially...and the kitty too of course!!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Those are really well done!  I'm actually hoping to be able to put some glass in my house as well once I get the hang of it.  I've always loved it and felt like it's a shame not to have any windows of my own.  I did use Delphi Glass to get my glass grinder, they had it nearly $50 cheaper than anyone else.  I had my cart full of glass, too, but then I saw it was adding like $30 to the shipping so I saved it for later.  This'd be more fun without such a limited budget!


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words. *s*

The glass can get pricy due to the shipping cost (space/weight). Something fun to try, though, is go to flea markets and get cheap plates and glasses, and break 'em up to use. I also use those for garden mosaic (you don't need to grind edges when you cement them).  I'll try to upload some more pix later. *s* But I want to see what others have done.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Here is an example of one of my mirror pieces as discussed previously. 
**NOTE: I should have taken photo from different angle; as not to capture the reflection of the staircase and the grandfather clock in the mirror...Oh well, wasn't thinking.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

sjc, that's lovely! The rose glass looks similar to what I used in my rose lamp shades--needed to use a diamond saw to cut, it was so thick and irregular (but gorgeous!).


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

That mirror is really impressive, too.  The first thing I'm trying to make is all straight lines and I'm beginning to wonder how wise that was.  One would think straight lines would be easier, but I left probably a tad too much glass when cutting and grinding them straight is a challenge.  My grinder has a "fence" type piece of plastic, but it assumes one of the edges is straight to begin with, not to mention it's not very user friendly.  You have to screw it in every time you want to move it.  I'm trying to devise a way to make it easier to use without damaging the surface of the grinder by threading screws through it.  I imagine it was made to allow that, but I can't help but feel like it'll weaken it... plus I just paid $220 for it and I don't even want to scratch the rubber feet on a rough surface, much less thread screws through it.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

You'd think straight lines would be easier. But geometric patterns have to be nearly perfect. The more organic patterns (leaves, flowers, etc) have some leeway and even if you cut too small or two large, you can "fudge" the adjacent piece and it still works. *shrug*


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeah, that's what I'm starting to see as I work at this.  Of course my first two ideas were pretty geometric, or at least mirrored, and all my other ideas were pretty free form.  I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by trying my own designs so early too, but I guess I like to live dangerously.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Go for it! I think you learn more that way. My first project was an original design. While everyone else in the class was making 18"x18" samples with maybe a dozen pieces, my first was a morning glory on trellis design with about 300 pieces. And it was with lead came. Yikes! I like the copper foil better because I tend to do smaller more detailed designs and it's hard to wrap those little pieces with lead.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Mine is only about 75 pieces (it's about 13" x 7") and is actually not an entire "window" like I planned when I started just because I ran out of glass and money to buy more. I may see how it goes as I build the main bit and see if I want to add the background in which would add 40 pieces or so. Almost all of them are rectangular, so it's a bit challenging, and yeah a lot of them are smaller so I'll be sticking with foil. It's more of my play around and get used to stuff project than anything for decorative purposes, though it should be fun if I pull it off.

I'd love to work with the came at some point, but I think that'd be better for really large pieces. Like you said, I tend to want to make all sorts of tiny details. My first design (http://i.imgur.com/QrUcFXH.jpg) was actually a bit large and probably excessive for a first go, and I'd have to rework some of it since I imagine some of the angels won't work in real life, but I really want to make it eventually. Hopefully people will know what it is or I failed entirely.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Scheherazade said:


> Mine is only about 75 pieces (it's about 13" x 7") and is actually not an entire "window" like I planned when I started just because I ran out of glass and money to buy more. I may see how it goes as I build the main bit and see if I want to add the background in which would add 40 pieces or so. Almost all of them are rectangular, so it's a bit challenging, and yeah a lot of them are smaller so I'll be sticking with foil. It's more of my play around and get used to stuff project than anything for decorative purposes, though it should be fun if I pull it off.
> 
> I'd love to work with the came at some point, but I think that'd be better for really large pieces. Like you said, I tend to want to make all sorts of tiny details. My first design (http://i.imgur.com/QrUcFXH.jpg) was actually a bit large and probably excessive for a first go, and I'd have to rework some of it since I imagine some of the angels won't work in real life, but I really want to make it eventually. Hopefully people will know what it is or I failed entirely.


That's lovely! Very striking.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks!  I may have to see about putting more curves in it now, though.  I just got some stencil plastic and am cutting out my current design as we speak, so hopefully tomorrow I can get knee deep in the grinding.  I didn't get very far the first time with paper patterns.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I like foil method. 
***NOTE
Careful where you store your foil. It can get funny and not adhere to the glass well. I wouldn't store in a cold or damp basement.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeah, from what I've read you want to be really picky with your foil and store it in airtight bags.  Not only does the sticky stop to stick but the copper starts to tarnish then it's hard to get the solder to adhere.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Yes, that's right about the copper tarnishing. I had some really old foil, still stuck okay, but tarnished--so I used it on the glass and then (wearing gloves rubber gloves) used some vine steel wool on the foil. Shined it right up and the solder worked great. Most times, I stored in zip lock baggies. The quart size was a good fit and seemed to keep the foil in good shape. Oftentimes there was a sale, so I'd get a lot and not use too quickly so sealing it really helped.


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