# Using Ingram Advance Catalog for print editions



## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

For those amongst us who also publish print editions of our books, has anyone ever used Ingram Advanced Catalog to advertise their print editions to bookstore, libraries, etc? I've placed an ad in the upcoming Ingram Advanced Children's catalog and am eager to learn what other folks who've used them have experienced?

Dee


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

I passed on it. My book is non-returnable, so no point even targeting bookstores. And I figured the $65 would be better spent on printing up postcards and mailing them to librarians myself. 

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

I did it for Suckers, but I don't have any way of ascertaining how much it helped because I also had reviews in the major pre-publication review magazines around the same time, so it could have been the catalog ad prompting sales or the reviews or both working off each other.

I'm not submitting the June release to the pre-pub reviewers (it's a novella; I figured I'd save my energy for the release after it, which is more marketable (not only because it's a full-length novel)), so it'll only have the Ingram Advance ad. I'm interested to see how sales compare.


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

I have not heard of this. Can you put up a link? It sounds like it could be good if I ever got into IngramSpark or the like instead of cheap-and-easy CreateSpace.


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## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

ameliasmith said:


> I have not heard of this. Can you put up a link? It sounds like it could be good if I ever got into IngramSpark or the like instead of cheap-and-easy CreateSpace.


Unfortunately all the links I found are old. Here is what it says on the Ingram Sparks page minus the sample page:

Marketing Opportunities
Ingram Advance Catalog

Published monthly and distributed five weeks prior to the issue month, Advance is a comprehensive title listing and purchasing tool. Included are hardcover, trade paper, audiobook, gifts & games, and mass market titles.

Circulation: 11,800 booksellers and librarians; and in PDF format to over 3,000 international accounts.
Annotation:$60

There's 3 Ingram Advance Catalogs: Advance, Christian, and Children's Book. Each cost $60. I bought the Children's Book catalog ads for my two children's books and they should be coming out soon.

Dee


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## bethrevis (Jul 30, 2014)

My logic is the same as Rue's. I've spoken to several bookstores, and none of them care about the catalogue. They buy books they know they can sell, based on track records, and that are returnable. This knocks out most self publishers.


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## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

bethrevis said:


> My logic is the same as Rue's. I've spoken to several bookstores, and none of them care about the catalogue. They buy books they know they can sell, based on track records, and that are returnable. This knocks out most self publishers.


Well, this bookstore owner seems to depend on Ingram Advance to find newly released children's/YA books to stock:

http://www.thecompulsivereader.com/2014/06/bookselling-philosophy-and-how-i-stock.html

Dee


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## bethrevis (Jul 30, 2014)

Darryl Hughes said:


> Well, this bookstore owner seems to depend on Ingram Advance to find newly released children's/YA books to stock:
> 
> http://www.thecompulsivereader.com/2014/06/bookselling-philosophy-and-how-i-stock.html
> 
> Dee


Oh, _absolutely_ book sellers use the Ingram catalogue to pick books. I'm 100% certain of that. I just don't think they're effective for _self-published_ books. Note how the bookseller in the article you quoted selects books:



> Once our book distributor, Ingram, has posted the next season's catalog of new books (Ingram Advance), I throw the proverbial confetti and get ready for some serious list-making. I love lists. I make my first list of books, marking new books that I know will be popular or will sell (next in series, paperback releases of hardcovers we've sold many copies of), and of books that I am pretty certain will sell (new books by popular authors in the store, debuts who have been getting a ton of buzz, paperback releases of hardcovers that have been doing reasonably well, or anything that I think I can handsell).


She uses the catalogue to find books that:

she KNOWS will be popular
she KNOWS will sell

From her descriptions, it seems pretty clear to me that unless the author is local and has sold well in the store previously, she'd targetting buzzed about traditional books.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! I'd _love_ for there to be a source where bookstores find and buy indie books for their store. But the truth of the matter is, indie books aren't vetted and are a risk for bookstores, and I just don't think a resource like this is available for us yet.


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## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

bethrevis said:


> Oh, _absolutely_ book sellers use the Ingram catalogue to pick books. I'm 100% certain of that. I just don't think they're effective for _self-published_ books. Note how the bookseller in the article you quoted selects books:
> 
> She uses the catalogue to find books that:
> 
> ...


If you're an indy publisher who isn't offering industry standard 55% discounts and returnability with your books OF COURSE you have little chance of getting into bookstores. You've more or less settled on online retailers if you don't. I've had success emailing bookstores while waiting for my Ingram Advance ad to come out simply because I DO offer them the discounts/returns that they expect. If you don't in an attempt to make more money on Amazon, B&N, and other online retailers then you're cutting your nose off to spite your face IMHO.

I do offer industry standard discounts/returns with my books so I'm eager to see what my upcoming Ingram Advance ad will do when it comes out. Several folks I've spoken to even a few here who've used it refer to Ingram Advance as "the best $60 I've spent..." when promoting their books. I'm hoping for the same.

Dee


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

You know, I can't say for sure if this one is in Ingram Advance but I have had a few bookstore sales via the Ingram catalog. Actually about the same as Kindle sales for this book:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0985370955

I don't think it's ever sold a paper copy thru Amazon. Not exactly popular reading, but the audiobook is my top seller.


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## bethrevis (Jul 30, 2014)

Darryl Hughes said:


> If you're an indy publisher who isn't offering industry standard 55% discounts and returnability with your books OF COURSE you have little chance of getting into bookstores. You've more or less settled on online retailers if you don't. I've had success emailing bookstores while waiting for my Ingram Advance ad to come out simply because I DO offer them the discounts/returns that they expect. If you don't in an attempt to make more money on Amazon, B&N, and other online retailers then you're cutting your nose off to spite your face IMHO.


That's cool  I wish you much success. For me, I felt that the likelihood of still getting into bookstores even with the discounts/returnability was low and opted for a different route, selecting to do bookstores on commission at a case-by-case basis. I was also scared of having to pay for returns that led to no profit. But every self publisher is different and has his/her own choices to make, so as I said, I wish you luck.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

bethrevis said:


> That's cool  I wish you much success. For me, I felt that the likelihood of still getting into bookstores even with the discounts/returnability was low and opted for a different route, selecting to do bookstores on commission at a case-by-case basis. I was also scared of having to pay for returns that led to no profit. But every self publisher is different and has his/her own choices to make, so as I said, I wish you luck.


This was my take, too. Fortunately, you can put your book into the catalogue at any time (at least that's what it seems like). So I may yet be brave enough to make my book returnable and try it. But for now, with only one book out, I'll stick with what I'm doing. So far I sell about 3-4 books through Ingram every month. 

Rue


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## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

bethrevis said:


> That's cool  I wish you much success. For me, I felt that the likelihood of still getting into bookstores even with the discounts/returnability was low and opted for a different route, selecting to do bookstores on commission at a case-by-case basis. I was also scared of having to pay for returns that led to no profit. But every self publisher is different and has his/her own choices to make, so as I said, I wish you luck.


Thanks. Same to you. 

I wasn't trying to argue with you. It's just that some indy folks seem to have drunk the 20% discount/no returns Kool aid and then curse the bookstores for not changing their business model for them. This is business. It's not going to change the way it's done to suit you, so you have to play the game by the rules.

And yes, the pitfalls of returns potentially eating into your profit is off putting, but again it's one of the prices of print publishing. And without returnability (and standard 55% discount) you have almost no chance of ever seeing your books in bookstores. Then it's nothing but Amazon. And then folks complain about how Amazon screws with them too. If you turn away from potentially doing business with bookstores by offering only 20% discount and no returns thereby ensuring that your book will only be published by Amazon and online retailers how surprised can you be when they use that power that you've giving them against you on a whim by not giving yourself a viable alternative (bookstores). Amazon is our Frankenstein. We did that to ourselves.

Dee


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

My suggestion for book stores:
Register as a publisher at Amazon (don't recall the fee, but it's reasonable).
Amazon will order 1 or 2 copies.
Your books must have your ISBN, offer the 55% discount, and be returnable. And you pay the shipping to Amazon
Now you can promote your book to the stores with postcards, order forms, etc.
When Amazon sells it's first 1 or 2 copies, Amazon will reorder (probably another couple of copies.
By now you'll realize that the big discount, and your shipping fees, will leave you only about $6 from your $19.95 book
You must spread that $6 to your printer and cover your office supplies (printer ink, mailing envelopes, promotional material, etc).
What? You're busy as a beaver and selling books, but are left with pennies.

You will make about $16 off that $19.95 book if you take the next step.

When Amazon starts reordering, don't fill them.
Go back to Amazon and list your books as "Used" by an independent vendor (you)
Describe your "Used" as in "New" condition direct from the publisher.
List the full price.
When your "Used" book sells, Amazon will pay you 70% and kick in another $3+ since you ship the book.
Best of all, Amazon will pay you that 70% 14 DAYS after the sale.

You get more money and you get it quicker. PLUS, Amazon sends you the buyer's mailing address so you can ship the book. That is something the Big Boys would kill for, since it can be added to your mailing list.


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## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

Okey Dokey said:


> My suggestion for book stores:
> Register as a publisher at Amazon (don't recall the fee, but it's reasonable).
> Amazon will order 1 or 2 copies.
> Your books must have your ISBN, offer the 55% discount, and be returnable. And you pay the shipping to Amazon
> ...


Why would I go through all of that (shipping fees, etc) when I have a distributor (Ingram) that handles all of the FOR ME.

Dee


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## Darryl Hughes (Nov 17, 2014)

To those of you who did use Ingram Advance, how did they let you know that your book would be included in the newest catalog once your 4 month wait was over? My 4 months is over this month and I'm really anxious to have my books included in the Children's Book Advance catalog.

Dee


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