# Did you ever think being an author would make so many people mad?



## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

All of the discussion and posts about reviews, customers, retributions and other things got me to thinking:

Do you ever stop and think about all of the people you might be making mad?

In the last 30 days, I (or the folks who I work with) have had to say "no," to over 60 people associated with our industry. 

- We turned down over 30 audiobook narrators this month. 
- We had 17 manuscripts submitted that we sent polite notes back to the authors (we don't accept manuscripts). 
- I had 11 requests on FB and email to review someone's book. I can't guys... really I can't. There's not enough hours in the day. 
- We turned away four marketing companies/proposals (that I can think of), and at least two people wanting jobs as editors.
- I fired a cover artist who wasn't responding to emails.
- I declined to write an introduction on another's book.
- I had to decline a book signing at a local store.
- I terminated a contract with a web designer that wasn't performing.

This list doesn't even count a locally brewing controversy with a few bloggers, my big-mouthed posts that often seem to tick people off and my website reviews of gear and tactics that rub some folks the wrong way. 

Heck, I even had the Chinese Army attack our webpage and knock it down last year. (You know your really doing well when you honk-off a few billion people.) 

Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. So in just one month, I have several folks who probably feel like I'm a jerk, nasty person or unfriendly guy. 

But I don't think the average writer realizes this side of being an indie. Maybe they don't care. 

But this is a business and sometimes a businessman has to say 'no.'

Do any of you ever think about this? Do you ever worry about retribution? Sour grapes?

I hate telling people "no," but I'd never get a book out if I didn't, and the last time I looked, those books were why I'm doing this.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

This post is a bad idea. Everything about it is a bad idea.

In previous contributions, you have complained about being slammed with bad reviews when giving something as inoffensive as sales figures. This post seems to be asking for more of the same.

Delete it while you still can.

YMMV


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

Nah, Joe. My problem is I don't give a crap.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> This post is a bad idea. Everything about it is a bad idea.
> 
> In previous contributions, you have complained about being slammed with bad reviews when giving something as inoffensive as sales figures. This post seems to be asking for more of the same.
> 
> ...


Patty, I appreciate the warning, but I'm out of this game shortly. As I stated the other day, I'm beyond caring.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Patty, I appreciate the warning, but I'm out of this game shortly. As I stated the other day, I'm beyond caring.


Out of the game shortly? You're not going to write or publish any more?


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## Mike Essex (Mar 9, 2014)

I think you're always going to have to say no. Of a lot of those requests they are people you'd be paying to do a service. It winds me up too when people get annoyed that you don't want to buy their services. Every day I get a phone call from someone trying to sell me a tool or exhibition space, I used to lose a lot of time speaking to them, now I just do a flat no within 1 minute. Your work has to come first.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Joe_Nobody said:


> All of the discussion and posts about reviews, customers, retributions and other things got me to thinking:
> 
> Do you ever stop and think about all of the people you might be making mad?
> 
> ...


It's not being an author that makes people mad at you, Joe, it's being a CELEBRITY author. In other words, you're a victim, as many others are not just authors, of your own success. You need a pseudonym for your pseudonym!


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I rarely have to say 'no' to anybody - one of the perks of not being too well-known. I occasionally nudge freelance service providers if they don't turn their work in by deadline but it's never turned into hard feelings and (thank goodness) I haven't needed to fire anyone. Once in awhile someone asks me to read their unpublished work or give them career advice but I don't have much trouble handling it. I gently say I'm not able to give manuscript critiques and offer links to other resources.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> Out of the game shortly? You're not going to write or publish any more?


I'm sure hoping that's not what he means.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Becca Mills said:


> I'm sure hoping that's not what he means.


I hate the thought of anyone being run out of town, but I suspect that's not the case here. He probably means the whole forums thing.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

Joe, I don't get the 'mad' part.

Who is mad, exactly? Because whoever it is, isn't schooled in the game yet, and I'm sure if they're of sound motivation they soon will be. 

People sending in manuscripts and asking for reviews, I can only imagine that you would be just one name on a giant list they were targeting. They just need one success to get the desired result. The same with the audio people auditioning. No one is in the corner, crying about one single rejection. It's a numbers game here, and they only count the wins. Losses don't even come into it.

What else? Cover designer not responding, poor web designer, annoying marketing companies, the local bookstore hassling you... I know you're a pro Joe, but what makes you think less of any of these people? They'll get what they deserve. 

There's no people getting mad that I can see, unless they're giving you mean replies. And if they are, it's not cold hard business that makes you not care. Who among us would?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Joe_Nobody said:


> - I had to decline a book signing at a local store.


I would have accepted that one. It would be cool to meet my readers.

But I guess the novelty does wear off after a while.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

JRTomlin said:


> Out of the game shortly? You're not going to write or publish any more?





Becca Mills said:


> I'm sure hoping that's not what he means.


He did say this a few days ago in a thread here:



Joe_Nobody said:


> I'm retiring kido. There ain't nothing they can do to me anymore. I'm beyond caring.


Betsy


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Joe_Nobody said:


> All of the discussion and posts about reviews, customers, retributions and other things got me to thinking:
> 
> Do you ever stop and think about all of the people you might be making mad?


Just on every post I reply to (especially a couple this morning). I always have second thoughts, because I've seen people get hurt by simply trying to help, or by offering an opinion that wasn't popular.



> But I don't think the average writer realizes this side of being an indie. Maybe they don't care.
> 
> But this is a business and sometimes a businessman has to say 'no.'
> 
> ...


A lot of people are just about themselves. They never stop to think that their requests/demands/needs are taking away from someone's work time/spare time/family time. They read those sites and books that tell them to do this stuff, and never think that advice is wrong. Hey, their book is different, you know, so they will rise above the fifty other people who've just done the same thing!

There's also a level of clueless behavior I see a lot-- or maybe it's just laziness -- that leads people to ask questions that they can easily answer with just a few minutes of searching. Much better to pop in and post a question, and expect others to take the time to do the work, even if they are the fifth person to ask the same question.

I back out of a lot of threads now, because I worry that what I post will get on someone's wrong side, or cause hurt feelings because someone misread my response. It's easy to 1-star someone, or worse, and no one's the wiser.

I'd hate to see you not participate in the forums, like a lot of other posters who have dropped out, because you've been helpful, but you have to think about your life and your career.


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## MorganKegan (Jan 10, 2013)

Hugh, being mad at you would be like being mad at cute, fluffy bunnies and unicorns.


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## Aero (Jan 17, 2014)

Sounds like you have given it a lot of thought and that this career isn't the right one for you. All the best in your future endeavors!


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## S. Elliot Brandis (Dec 9, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Joe, I don't get the 'mad' part.
> 
> Who is mad, exactly? Because whoever it is, isn't schooled in the game yet, and I'm sure if they're of sound motivation they soon will be.
> 
> People sending in manuscripts and asking for reviews, I can only imagine that you would be just one name on a giant list they were targeting. They just need one success to get the desired result. The same with the audio people auditioning. No one is in the corner, crying about one single rejection. It's a numbers game here, and they only count the wins. Losses don't even come into it.


This reminds me of a guy I saw on twitter. He sent a tweet to the company I work for, saying how keen he was and that he was looking for an intern opportunity etc. He seemed nice, genuine, eager. Good on him, I thought. Get yourself out there.

Then I saw him again on another company's feed. Word for word, the same message. Only the company name was changed. I went to his feed. It was the same message, over and over and over again. Targeted at any company with any link at all to the industry. I laughed.

The people asking you for reviews, or to be published, are likely the same. They're casting their net wide. They're not mad. They probably don't even remember who they queried.


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## Basement Cat (Dec 12, 2013)

Joe_Nobody said:


> You know your really doing well when you honk-off a few billion people.


Perhaps you shouldn't have said no to all those editors.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

S. Elliot Brandis said:


> This reminds me of a guy I saw on twitter. He sent a tweet to the company I work for, saying how keen he was and that he was looking for an intern opportunity etc. He seemed nice, genuine, eager. Good on him, I thought. Get yourself out there.
> 
> Then I saw him again on another company's feed. Word for word, the same message. Only the company name was changed. I went to his feed. It was the same message, over and over and over again. Targeted at any company with any link at all to the industry. I laughed.
> 
> The people asking you for reviews, or to be published, are likely the same. They're casting their net wide. They're not mad. They probably don't even remember who they queried.


Why did you laugh? That's just a cover letter. You alter it based on whatever industry (or personalized company) you're submitting to. He sends that cover letter to your company, and then ... he's supposed to sit on his hands? Assume you will get back to him? He's just firing that cover letter out to as many people as possible so that someone will eventually pay attention. That's not funny, that's what most people who are in the job market do (at least I thought so). Maybe twitter isn't good because then companies can see his duplicate posts, but a cover letter in general is supposed to be generic, with minor alterations applied to suit the company applied for. Just like a resume.


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## Michelle Hughes (Dec 12, 2011)

I stopped doing reviews last year because my inbox was so flooded with new books that I didn't have time to write my own.  I handed over my review site to a group and even after posting several informational posts about NOT doing reviews, I still got hounded.  I get that there are people out there who want reviews, but some of them can be downright nasty when you explain that you no longer do reviews.  You can't make everyone happy, so I just do what I can to promote other authors when I have the time.  My bottom line is this is a career for me, if I don't write books then I don't have a job.


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## leep (Aug 25, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


* spits coffee *

You're the only person here to upset an entire industry.


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> Be The Best Of Whatever You Are
> If you can't be a pine on the top of a hill
> Be a scrub in the valley, but be the best little scrub on the side of the hill
> Be a bush if you can't be a tree,
> ...


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


Oh crapolia! I didn't even think about Mr. Howey's recent activities. Now there's a guy who knows how to do things big!


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

swolf said:


> I would have accepted that one. It would be cool to meet my readers.
> 
> But I guess the novelty does wear off after a while.


I wanted to do it, but there was a scheduling conflict with a milestone event with one of my kids. Family first, as always.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Aero said:


> Sounds like you have given it a lot of thought and that this career isn't the right one for you. All the best in your future endeavors!


Ha! Joe has already made enough from his writing to retire on. Good luck, indeed.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

Lightweights. I was making people mad LONG before I started publishing.  

But then again, I do come from a direct-sales background. Get thrown out of a few houses during a vacuum demo and there is little the publishing industry can really do to surpise you.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Julie,

my husband was asking if there are still door-to-door vacuum cleaner salespeople?  (Sorry for the thread derail--although it could be a new career for Joe. )

Betsy


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

A recommendation.  Make yourself more inaccessible.  Remove your email address(es) from the internet.  Turn off replying to blog posts.  All outside contacts should be initiated by you, not the other way around.  It'll make life a lot easier for you.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


You're SO adorable!

Joe, I don't think that the things you listed are unreasonable. You're a busy guy,you've become the sort of person to whom people look to for whatever they need. If they expect you to jump when they say 'please' then they don't actually know who you are.

Would you just email Judy Dench for acting lessons? Ask Slash to teach you how to play guitar? There comes a time when you have to say 'no'.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

So far, I've only managed to tick off the wife. She mad that I haven't handed her the millions she's sure I'll be making. Oh, and Betsy. I've managed to tick her off a couple times.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Joe, I hate the idea of you retiring. 
Maybe you could just go incognito. Like, um, you could change your name to "Sam Somebody" or something. Only KBers would know.
And we would never tell.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> *****,
> 
> my husband was asking if there are still door-to-door vacuum cleaner salespeople? (Sorry for the thread derail--although it could be a new career for Joe. )
> 
> Betsy


Believe it or not, yes. I've been out of it for a good decade now, but there are still both Kirby and Rainbow offices in the area and they do in-home demos. Most of them are scheduled appointments these days, but they do on occassion do door-to-door. In-home sales is a great opportunity for a "people watcher." Getting to see how people act in their home is rather eye-opening.

Joe would probably do well in door-to-door sales. And he has the benefit no doubt of owning body armor. That would be useful. While I never personally got hit by anything, I did see a wife throw a frying pan at her husband once. And then there was the woman who broke her old vacuum with a hammer in front of me after her husband said "She ain't getting a new vacuum until this one dies."


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## johnlmonk (Jul 24, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


Haha, I still remember a certain video from a non-fan you had...

Joe: 
I actually found this post very interesting. I've often wondered what folks like Hugh, you, maybe Dean Koontz and other approachable authors do when zillions of fans fire their manuscripts off at them to get noticed and/or hop on the gravy train. Heck, I've been tempted to do that...and then realize hey, everyone's doing that, and no, Mr. Koontz doesn't have time. I know I don't have time to beta read the world, and if I read someone's book and don't like it, I'd have to decline "supporting" it, which would irritate someone. But I never thought about all the other stuff: web designers, under-performing cover artists, agents, etc. I can't say no to anyone, let alone "fire" someone.

As for retiring, maybe just take a small break, or just write more and post less, build up a backlog of awesome so when you "come out of retirement" you'll have all that cool stuff ready to go.

Cheers
(ps., please review my book so I can hop on the gravy train...)


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> And then there was the woman who broke her old vacuum with a hammer in front of me after her husband said "She ain't getting a new vacuum until this one dies."


ROFL. Hubby wants to know if she got her new vacuum cleaner. 



vrabinec said:


> So far, I've only managed to tick off the wife. She mad that I haven't handed her the millions she's sure I'll be making. Oh, and Betsy. I've managed to tick her off a couple times.


A couple times? 

Betsy


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


Hahhahaha!

As Facebook memes often remind us, corporations aren't people.

I'm with whoever said they don't care upthread. You can't go through life without making a few people mad. Some folks have easily crossed lines. My rule of thumb is "try not to be a dick, and definitely don't be a dick on purpose." Beyond that, I can't worry about everybody else's stuff.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> ROFL. Hubby wants to know if she got her new vacuum cleaner.


Yes. Yes she did. 

I've often thought about writing a book just of short stories about what has happened on various demos. But I really think nobody would believe most of them and I'd have to classify it as fiction.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear it has become uncomfortable. 

I'm lucky that I came into this business from, well, business. I had to talk to companies about not meeting expectations, fire companies, and fire a fair number of individuals over the years. Plus just say no a lot to solicitations. I still have an issue with wanting people to think I'm a nice person, but sometimes you just have to do what you have to do and let them hate you.

The other thing I learned was to trust my instincts a lot more when hiring, check out people or companies very thoroughly, and as much as possible, stick with a trusted vendor. One person who does my website and all tech support, same person for all my covers, same person for all my audiobooks, etc. I want people I can work with very, very easily. I am an anti-micromanager--i give the person the project, provide my feedback in rounds, set deadlines, etc., and then let them do it and don't worry about it. 

All that stuff has helped. As far as solicitations--blanket solicitations I usually just ignore, for services, etc. I will give a piece of advice if I can, or refer people here. And I don't feel guilty about saying no. 

Interestingly, nobody's ever asked me to read their manuscript, still. Which is good, because I don't have time, but it wouldn't bother me to say no. 

All in all, I find this very, very much easier than my past business experience in these terms, because I get to decide everything. I'm not a big second-guesser, and there is no boss and no clients to convince. I just decide and move on. Love that. 

Oh, and if I thought I was upsetting people here too much or it was hurting me to be here, I'd just move on with regret. I try to be encouraging and helpful, but sometimes I can tell the tone gets lost in translation or something. My apologies here and now for the times when that happens. 

Now worrying about upsetting my READERS--that's new, and very uncomfortable. 

Best of luck to you, Joe. For my money, you are a true gentleman.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Long story short, but yes.  I write non-politically correct comedy, and I also deal with vendors / freelancers all the time, so my assumption going into this was that there was no way I was coming out universally loved.  

Happy to say my predictions have proven to be more than accurate.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

Tell the truth and run like hell


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Joe,
I've always looked up to you...had some of your books before I ever joined KBoards, and when I joined and saw you were just an average joe (no pun intended), that reached out to help everyone, I was even more enamored. It's a shame you've received the backlash you have. That goes for all of you who've always reached a hand down to the rest of us. Thank you all!

Good luck on your next endeavor, and thanks again for all you've done for us thus far. It will not be forgotten.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

We're all business people and we have to make decisions that are best for us. Don't sweat it. Those people will have moved on by now, anyway. And if they haven't, they be crazy. 

Echoing everyone else wishing you good luck for the future. I doubt you need luck, though! 

Your advice has really helped me on here. You will be missed!


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## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

Ah, people.  Can't live with em.  Can't kill em.  The more unreasonable they are, the madder they get when you don't give them whatever it is they want.  There is nothing wrong with retiring.  Good luck, and thank you for all your contributions.  You are one of the good guys and don't ever believe anyone who tells you otherwise.  Happy trails, my friend.


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## sstroble (Dec 16, 2013)

My dad used to tell us kids, "You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
His words have become all too true since my becoming a writer. Now I try to use them to keep on going.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Joe, I've appreciated all your posts and have found them thought provoking and even sometimes challenging - which is a good thing. Whenever I see your name on the sidebar, I rush right in to take a look. I certainly hope you are not retiring or retiring from the boards - we need this sort of discussion, even if people sometimes disagree.

As to your post, I think there's an interesting catch 22 here. I have never in any other industry seen such a willingness to help as I have within indie publishing. Information is freely shared, the big dogs aren't afraid to play with the little ones...... I hope that never goes away.

But that's the phrase isn't it - familiarity breeds contempt. I wouldn't dare email Dean Koontz for personal writing advice and expect he would take the time to walk me through, say, keywords on Amazon, or ask him to write a review for my book - but we have all kind of started to expect we can ask the heavy hitters here to do just that. Or worse, we don't show any respect whatsoever for the fact that they've been successful so they must know something - maybe not everything, but something valuable we can learn from.

I haven't sold anything. I don't even have my book up yet! I don't have the right to be contemptuous of those who have done better than I have - I don't think anyone ever has that right no matter how successful they get. 

And yeah, being the face of a business means saying no. Traditionally, publishers and agents get to do that  and that's what we pay them for. Personally, I'll take the money and start practicing saying N. O.


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

Don't go, Joe


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

But don't a lot of professions have the potential to tick people off? Imagine being a politician (of any party) these days. Or a lawyer. Or Justin Bieber. Or the ayatollah of Iran.

Actually, I've heard that Dean Koontz tends to write people back. He's supposedly really gracious. A friend of mine wrote him once, asking for advice, and he wrote back a very pleasant and thoughtful email.


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## lynnfromthesouth (Jun 21, 2012)

I think you've earned a well-deserved retirement, Joe! I wish you all the best on it. I don't think you have to feel sorry that you can't help everyone. They need to learn to survive on their own.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Thank you all for the kind words.

Since I brought it up, here's where I'm at:

This isn't fun anymore. It's not the backlash, or this forum, or reviews or any one thing. Some might say I'm "burned out," others might prescribe an extended vacation. I'm not mad, upset or depressed. It just isn't satisfying and it seems to be getting worse. I dread opening my WIPs, and that means they probably won't be so good.

One of the few things I enjoy is this forum and the friends I've made here. As I've stated so many times, helping others pegs my gratification meter. I try to make others ponder a different perspective and help newer writers now and then.

So I'm going to finish up my three WIPS, take an extended trip and pursue a couple of other ideas I have rolling around inside this thick skull. Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe I'll be like some athletes and come out of retirement... more than once? Perhaps I'm more addicted to this business than I can admit and will miss it badly.

It will, however, be such a relief to sit and write when I feel like it... to dump prose on a page because I really, really want to. No editors, proofreaders or need to publish. Just for selfish old me.

I've even considered coming out under a new pen name and starting all over again. That would be fun in so many ways, frustrating in others. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, I'll be hanging out here on the boards as long as the mods allow me, so goodbyes and best wishes are a little premature. Thank you though. It's good to know a few folks will say nice things at my funeral.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm sad that the writing isn't fun for you anymore, but I love the idea of you writing just for you. Have at it. And thanks for sticking around here!!


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## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Why did you laugh? That's just a cover letter. You alter it based on whatever industry (or personalized company) you're submitting to. He sends that cover letter to your company, and then ... he's supposed to sit on his hands? Assume you will get back to him? He's just firing that cover letter out to as many people as possible so that someone will eventually pay attention. That's not funny, that's what most people who are in the job market do (at least I thought so).


I have a few friends working at employment agencies, and it turns out it's pretty common for hiring professionals to think they work at Unique Snowflake, Inc.

But I guess you always find some people like that, wherever you go.


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## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Since I brought it up, here's where I'm at:
> 
> This isn't fun anymore.


That's a critical milestone you've passed, then. It'd be a shame to see you stop doing something you're so good at; I guess it comes down to whether there's a way to make it fun again? Just a thought.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> I've even considered coming out under a new pen name and starting all over again. That would be fun in so many ways, frustrating in others. Time will tell.


I've been thinking the same thing.

You should definitely take a break and get out there and do something that energizes your soul. I think you'll find that it motivates you to write for joy again. If not, you'll be doing something you love.


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

I am more mad at myself on a daily basis now that I consider myself a writer than I EVER was before!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been lucky so far. I can't think of one person in this industry that I've upset!


LOL,  LOL

He's right, not just *one*.

Someone told me when I was very young, 1/3 of the people will never like you, 1/3 haven't made up their minds yet, and 1/3 will. For every 10,000 books I get out there, I seem to pick up one true hater who is very vocal.  I can judge how well I'm doing when I pick another of these up.


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

The vocal haters are just people who want others to hear their voice. Internet Induced Self Validation Syndrome is what I call it. If I hate something, like a movie or a book, I would never take to the internet to waste time dragging it down. Aint nobody got time for that. People who do, make time specifically for it. If they hate your stuff and talk about it, odds are they hate other people's stuff, and talk about it.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Good for you Joe! There's nothing wrong with an extended - maybe permanent - vacation. Recharge your batteries, refill your cup - that sort of thing.

And there's nothing wrong with changing careers. Creative people often transfer from one area to another to keep themselves fresh. Actors become directors, singers become actors, etc......

I haven't had your type of success in any or my careers, but I've been a professional actress, singer, jewelry maker, photographer, artist and now, hopefully, writer. I've loved all my careers and could happily be doing any of them. But live and circumstances sometimes point us in one or another direction and I'm very excited to be returning to one of my two first, great loves - singing and writing.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

Joe, you should take your lead from me and stick to positive thinking cheerleading that nurtures and warms the soul. I'd hate to think I've upset anyone, which is why I recommend my approach of saccharine aphorisms and non-judgmental positivism. 

Can't we all just get along?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Joe, I wish you all the best. I'm sure taking a well-earned break will help a lot, whether you come back to writing or not. (Hey, writing is a job, and everybody needs a vacation from their job once in a while.)

I do hope you'll keep in touch with some of the forum regulars now and then, so we can keep tabs on you. You're a favorite around here and we all think of you fondly (even me  .)  Plus, we'll want to know where you are, because in the event of an apocalypse we're all coming over to crash on your couch.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Meanwhile, I'll be hanging out here on the boards as long as the mods allow me, so goodbyes and best wishes are a little premature.


Well, of course, this is all _we _really care about. Let the vacation/retirement party begin! 

Seriously, if it's not fun and you can afford not to do it, don't do it. Life's too short.


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## Dan Fiorella (Oct 14, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Do you ever stop and think about all of the people you might be making mad?
> 
> Do any of you ever think about this? Do you ever worry about retribution? Sour grapes?


Unless they're showing up at the moat with pitchforks and torches, it's cool.


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## Writerly Writer (Jul 19, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Thank you all for the kind words.
> 
> Since I brought it up, here's where I'm at:
> 
> ...


Is it possible to cut your current work to part-time, then spend the rest of your time working on projects you actually enjoy?


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## wolfrom (May 26, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> This isn't fun anymore.


I'm wondering if we're finally at the point where we can start studying a "life cycle" of self-published authors, whereby once success comes, it's found that producing more content may become onerous.

Not that I expect you'll be retired forever, Joe. I think you'll find it too hard to be away.

Just like I expect we won't see the end of Hugh Howey at any point, but we may witness the illustrious and suspicious beginning of Hobart Howlbraith...


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> So I'm going to finish up my three WIPS, take an extended trip and pursue a couple of other ideas I have rolling around inside this thick skull.


Just imagine the conspiracy theories we could dream up around that!


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

In all seriousness, I've often said that I'm glad I have a day job that pays my living expenses. That allows me to publish what I want instead of feeling pressure to produce what will sell. 

I've published projects that I knew had limited commercial value, but felt were worth publishing anyway. There is a certain freedom in being able to say "I don't need this to pay my mortgage. I just need to recover my costs." 

A while back when I thought I might get laid off, I considered just taking the severance package and writing full time. I looked at my sales and which projects were "commercial" successes and which ones weren't. I could make a living writing full time...if I wanted to put all of the non-commercial projects on hold and only focus on the commercial ones. But I didn't become a writer to produce "product." I became a writer to tell stories. I don't know if I could go very long having to focus on churning out more and more commercial products and letting the stuff I want to work on languish in order to pay the bills. 

So I can completely appreciate what Joe is saying about it not being fun anymore. If my livilhood depended on this over the course of several years, I think it would stop being fun. I'm glad for Joe he's in a place where he CAN retire. Lots of folks don't have that luxury.


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## TuckerAuthor (Jan 31, 2014)

Joe_Nobody said:


> I've even considered coming out under a new pen name and starting all over again. That would be fun in so many ways, frustrating in others. Time will tell.


Rowling tried that with mixed results I'd say. Definitely a good idea to do something else, even for just a while, to clear out the cobwebs and get a fresh look at life. If you're not happy doing what you're doing, it's time to find something else.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Thank you though. It's good to know a few folks will say nice things at my funeral.


We'll be there... We'll just look for the obituary that says:

"Nobody passed away on February 30, 20XX. The service for Nobody will be at.... Nobody is survived by Nobody..."


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

I can only relate so far in the sense of having my book's message upsetting one reader to the point that they wrote a three page dissertation of the problems of my story. At first it hurt really bad, but now, months later, I see it as a positive that my text alone stirred such feeling.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

Have a break and recharge those batteries, sir!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Julie -- I totally get what you're saying about the grind of producing what will sell. I've been evaluating my thoughts on that as I look at writing full-time, which I mainly want to do so that I can have the flexibility to travel when I want to. If I can take my job of writing books anywhere I go, it doesn't matter if I go somewhere -- I can still earn a living.

But the expectations of producing enough commercial content have me feeling very wary, as do Joe's experiences.  My plan is to do two years of commercial content, and then take some time to write what I want, and if at that point I need to do another two years "on" and two years "off," or whatever, I can.  I think it's probably smart for authors who are on the verge of full-timing it to really put some thought into whether they can keep up with the deadlines month after month and year after year. I can see myself burning out on it eventually and needing a long break. It's good that we have the chance to talk to folks like Joe who've been there and seen the grind for what it is, so we can plan accordingly!


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've been thinking the same thing.


We'll do one together under the pen name of "The Forgotten Brothers," or similar.

At least that sounds better than what I had in mind if I do come out with a new pen name. Someone said they didn't think "Joe Nobodski," was a good idea...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Will your books still be available? 
If yes, then you can still make money and not get tired out.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Oh, yeah, the titles will still be listed on all the outlets. I'm tired... but not crazy...


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## RJJ (Oct 29, 2013)

I tried to quit a couple of months ago, took a month or so off and even took half my books down from Kindle. Now they're all back up and I'm halfway through writing a new thriller. Bottom line? When it's in your blood, it's in your blood.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Considering the nature of the internet and the Penny Arcade Wang Effect (when a large internet personality takes notice of a smaller one and buries them in attention), I'm really just disappointed with the quality of the people I make mad. 

Most of them barely know repetitive debate 101 tactics and don't even have a twitter to whine about how someone couldn't take the 'reality' they were laying down about how Katrina victims 'deserved it'. Bunch of wasted effort, those guys.


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## Davout73 (Feb 20, 2014)

Sometime the road ahead is well lit by the burning bridges you leave behind you.  As long as your not burning all of them its all good.

Dav


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

TuckerAuthor said:


> Rowling tried that with mixed results I'd say. Definitely a good idea to do something else, even for just a while, to clear out the cobwebs and get a fresh look at life. If you're not happy doing what you're doing, it's time to find something else.


Definitely a good idea to try something fresh. Maybe Joe should try erotica under the pen name Hunter Savage


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

markecooper said:


> Definitely a good idea to try something fresh. Maybe Joe should try erotica under the pen name Hunter Savage


What, Harvey, no "like" button in the upgrade??


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## &#039; (May 24, 2011)

I've given up writing twice. I wrote my first novel, The Power of Persuasion, in 1998. It did the rounds of London publishers. Everyone was kind to me, even added handwritten comments to the rejection slips. Those comments made me realise that I wasn't writing stuff that fitted onto publishers' lists. I realised that I needed to do a great deal of work to meet the publishers' requirements. I figured that the competition was so great that I probably wouldn't be good enough no matter how hard I tried, so I gave up.

In 2002, I started writing again and wrote Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine. Then I started publishing anthologies, wrote another novel, some short stories, a small collection of poems, published a few books by other authors and enjoyed the challenge of running a small publishing press (minuscule!).  

When KDP Select was introduced, my sales fell off a cliff, and it became difficult to even give books away with so many daily freebies. So I gave up writing at the end of 2012. 

I started again in January this year. I'm putting together a collection of stories based on classic Christmas stories. It isn't a serious endeavour. I'm really enjoying writing the stories, and if they don't sell, I won't be losing any sleep over it.


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## busywoman (Feb 22, 2014)

> Since I brought it up, here's where I'm at:
> 
> This isn't fun anymore. It's not the backlash, or this forum, or reviews or any one thing. Some might say I'm "burned out," others might prescribe an extended vacation. I'm not mad, upset or depressed. It just isn't satisfying and it seems to be getting worse. I dread opening my WIPs, and that means they probably won't be so good.
> 
> ...


I for one hope you change your mind, Joe. I enjoy your books and I am reading one of them now. Try to remember all the positives you are bringing people and how you are enriching their lives.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

If you're not making someone mad, somewhere, you're not doing it right.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

I hate having to tell people no: no to blog posts and having to fire flaky cover artists and no to front cover blurbs of people I barely know.  The only reason I got where I am today was because I started saying "yes" to life, and so when I have to start saying "no" to protect my business and my sanity, it just feels like little bits of my soul are being eaten away.  In the acting profession, they talk about this sort of burn out a lot (it's why if a celebrity is ever a complete douche?  It usually isn't that they are actually a douche, they're just really, really tired).  So I just wanted to pop in, Joe, and let you know that what you're experiencing is so completely normal.  And absolutely the best cure for it is to quit.  I quit about every six months and it is AWESOME.  This whole writing thing?  It is miserable.  And you know what is awesome?  Life.  Life is awesome.  And it is waiting out there beyond the computer screen to knock your socks off.  And the only reason we write stories well is because we have stories to tell.  And there comes a point when the well is dry and it is time to fill up ye olde artistic soul.  So get out there, kid!  Go stare at some clouds and feel the grass beneath your feet!  Life is a banquet and most poor bastards are starving to death!  GO!


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## Aaron Schultz (Jan 20, 2014)

I haven't made anyone mad yet. What am I doing wrong?


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## &#039; (May 24, 2011)

Aaron Schultz said:


> I haven't made anyone mad yet. What am I doing wrong?


Posts: 10


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## Dan Fiorella (Oct 14, 2012)

> Posted by: Aaron Schultz
> I haven't made anyone mad yet. What am I doing wrong?


Oh, knock it off.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

Aaron Schultz said:


> I haven't made anyone mad yet. What am I doing wrong?


You know? Posts like yours really TICK ME OFF!


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## George Applegate (Jan 23, 2013)

"Every time I appoint someone to a vacant position, I make a hundred unhappy and one ungrateful." -- Louis XIV


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## ThePete (Oct 10, 2013)

Damn shame Nobody's retiring. I liked "Holding Your Ground." There aren't enough normal preppers writing. Too many ultra-ring wing nut jobs dominating the field. Now there's one less sane voice.


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## Aaron Schultz (Jan 20, 2014)

Aaron Schultz said:


> I haven't made anyone mad yet. What am I doing wrong?


Sorry about that. I guess if my "joke" made anyone mad, I can cross that off my list. Plus, I definitely have made people mad at me in the non writing parts of my life. Anyway, I was going to say that in any endeavor, you're probably going to get someone mad at you even when you're not trying to. It's best to try to not let it get to you, but honestly, that's easier said than done. I guess when the "bad" starts to outweigh the "good," maybe taking a break isn't such a bad idea.


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## CrissyM (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been working in retail for the last eight years or so, and it has taught me one thing very well.. have a thick skin.

I had a woman yell at me on the phone and tell me I was a F***ing B***h because I wouldn't give in to her demands. I just had to laugh a little, and keep repeating that it wasn't personal, it was corporate policy, and nothing she said or did was going to get me, or anyone else that worked with me, to do what she wanted.

I was shaky and wound up after I got off the phone. I had to talk about it with others, and get mostly... I had to laugh. Here was this woman angry at me for following the rules, and doing what needed to be done, yelling and cursing at me because she screwed up. I couldn't take it personally, just had to realize that some people are going to be unhappy no matter what you do.

As writers, especially self publishers, we deal directly with our customers. We get their emails, or meet them at signings, and they aren't just telling us that the company we work for sucks, no... they are telling us that the thing we put our hard work into sucks, and we should be ashamed we made it. It feels like a personal attack sometimes, even though we know it shouldn't.

Well I don't like heavy metal. That doesn't make heavy metal bad, or wrong, or uncreative. It doesn't make the artists who make it any less an artist. It's just my taste. My taste says that Katy Perry is awesome, and ACDC isn't. Doesn't make me more or less right then anyone else, it just is my taste.

Once you, as an author/artist/designer/creator/etc understand these two things, that some people are just cranky people no matter what, and not everyone has the same taste as you, then you can stop taking comments personally and start realizing that those comments don't matter as much as you nice thought they did.

It isn't easy to change that perspective. In fact it is incredibly hard to separate yourself from your creation sometimes. But it's worth it.


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## ThePete (Oct 10, 2013)

> I've been working in retail for the last eight years or so, and it has taught me one thing very well.. have a thick skin.


Amen. The number one skill for being a successful writer. You can always improve your craft through practice, but being able to handle all that negativity is harder to learn.

I spent 5 years in the Army and regularly cold call businesses in my day job. I thought my skin is as thick as could be, but even I've been shocked by the backlash sometimes!


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