# Shakespeare - discussion thread (all works - all opinions)



## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> I found _A Clockwork Orange_ extremely difficult to read. I wouldn't have bothered had it not been for school. Same with Shakespeare.


I didn't get around to _A Clockwork Orange_ until I was in my thirties; reading it earlier might well have killed it for me, as it certainly did _Wuthering Heights_. Being forced to read things too soon is just...wrong.

The Internet, which wasn't even a concept when I read _Orange_ the first time, has been an indescribable aid to appreciating literature. I'm so glad I lived this long!

As for Shakespeare, he can be a chewy read, but many of the film adaptations of his plays are terrific. Mel Gibson's interpretation of _Hamlet_ is a stunner.

CK


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I love Shakespeare and my Kindleboards five stars.   We might not write in Elizabethan language (actually neithe did Shakespeare), but if one needs to learn how to make characters tick and bring them life, it should be done at the feet of the Bard.

Edward C. Patterson


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> Mel Gibson's interpretation of _Hamlet_ is a stunner.


I agree.....

... though I still didn't know what was going on half the time....


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I love Shakespeare and my Kindleboards five stars.  We might not write in Elizabethan language (actually neithe did Shakespeare), but if one needs to learn how to make characters tick and bring them life, it should be done at the feet of the Bard.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


I very nearly became a Shakespeare specialist in grad school, but decided instead to simply love him with no strings attached. As for language, it always impresses me that the letters and diaries of Shakespeare's contemporaries are just as easy and assured in their eloquence--for instance, those of the Virgin Queen herself:

"Good Sister, though I have good cause to thank you for your oft sending to me, yet I have more occasion to render hearty thanks for your gentle writing, which how painful it is to you, I may well guess by myself; and you may well see by my writing so oft, how pleasant it is to me. And thus I end to trouble you, desiring God to send you as well to do, as you can think and wish, or I desire or pray." ~ Elizabeth, then princess, to her elder sister Mary, c. 1550.

I grew up with the King James version of the Bible...lucky me.

King James Bible
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Bible in Basic English
And again I saw under the sun that the reward goes not to him who is quick, or the fruits of war to the strong; and there is no bread for the wise, or wealth for men of learning, or respect for those who have knowledge; but time and chance come to all.

CK


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

I think my love of Shakespeare, Mallory, Chaucer, Spenser, Voltaire, Homer, Sophocles, Melville, Kafka, and all the great classical writers have earned me quite a few angry readers. I don't dare say that I am on the level of these phenomenal writers, but I do emulate them,  if naught else but in spirit. It is painful to hear someone say they dislike my book because of its voice when the voice I echo is of the greats. So either I have done a poor job of paying homage to my favorite writers or readers today don't appreciate the classical mode of writing. Either way it's a tragedy, me, or my readers--or both.  


(And yes, the King James Bible is definitely included in this list.)


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

How wonderful it is to wander the dark forest and suddenly find yourself among like-minded folk! 

Ed, Carolyn, Kevis, and me!  What fun we'd have at a book club, eh!
--a fellow 'Shakespeare Appreciator'


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

archer said:


> How wonderful it is to wander the dark forest and suddenly find yourself among like-minded folk!
> 
> Ed, Carolyn, Kevis, and me! What fun we'd have at a book club, eh!
> --a fellow 'Shakespeare Appreciator'


Perhaps there should be a Shakespeare Book Klub?


Betsy


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## lkcampbell (Jun 25, 2009)

I fell in love with Shakespeare in the 6th grade. Our school had just converted from a high school to a middle school, and the library had recorded performances of all of his plays, and I used to take them home and listen to them. My friends thought I was pretty weird. They were all into David Cassidy, and I was listening to Shakespeare.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Ha! Shakespeare or David Cassidy--a no-brainer if there ever was one!!

When I was an undergrad (shortly after the DEATH of Shakespeare  ) I took a course from the English dept. thinking I was going to get a really grand foray into the world of one of my favorite authors. Turns out that, alas, it was required of all drama majors, who had NO interest whatsoever in it and turned it into a 'gut' course.  The professor sighed and wrung his hands a lot. The high point (at least for me) came prior to the start of class each day. There was a female drama major whose major contribution to human existence was to grow her fingernails as long as possible (I estimated them at about 4 inches--they were curving back toward her palms). 

I would close the glass-paneled classroom door when I saw her coming, and then amuse myself by watching her attempts at dealing with the doorknob. 

(Hehe, heh!)  Sigh.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I took a Shakespeare course in college. . .it was an upper level course in the English department, required of English majors and strongly suggested for all Theater majors as well.  I was a Math major but they let me in anyway.

Sr. Miriam Joseph Murphy (aka, but not to her face, Sr. Mimi Jo) expected everyone to participate and she didn't much care what your major was.  She suggested that we read the plays out loud to get the most out of them, preferably at least twice, and made her office VCR and tape collection available every evening for students who wanted to come in and watch the best adaptations.

It was a tough course. . .we probably did 10-12 plays plus a bunch of the sonnets in the course of a 15 week semester.  Hardest, though, was toting the 10 pound tome containing ALL the plays and sonnets: wish I'd had a Kindle then!!!  Anyway, there was no dumbing down:  her attitude was that you can't begin to talk about any writing in English since Shakespeare, unless you've studied Shakespeare and, as for performing it, well, you better know what the heck he was trying to say.


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## Patricia Sierra (Jun 25, 2009)

I guess I'm the only non-intellectual here. I would rather smash my Kindle than have to wade through Shakespeare.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Ha!  Lots of 'intellectuals' don't care for Shakespeare!

Now, see...if the course I had had been required of English majors, it would have been a lot better! I was a Biologist, and they let ME in fer cryin' out loud!


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

I LOVE Shakespeare, and I'm about as far from being an intellectual as a body could get. I was just fortunate enough to have an 11th grade English teacher who made The Bard very accessible. Kenneth Branaugh's adaptations have helped, too.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> As for Shakespeare, he can be a chewy read, but many of the film adaptations of his plays are terrific. Mel Gibson's interpretation of _Hamlet_ is a stunner.
> 
> CK


Carolyn,
I can't tell you how much I agree. Hamlet just wasn't doing it for me. I tried to appreciate it a couple of times. Until I saw Mel in that movie. He was terrific. Pure Shakespeare. No madmax. I was waiting for the "look" in the eyes. Never came. No exploding cars. And I got Hamlet. Finally.

Just nice to see someone else reacted to it.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> I LOVE Shakespeare, and I'm about as far from being an intellectual as a body could get. I was just fortunate enough to have an 11th grade English teacher who made The Bard very accessible. Kenneth Branaugh's adaptations have helped, too.


I've seen the Kenneth Branaugh version of Hamlet. But it was Mel Gibson's Hamlet that got me interested in Shakespeare. High School did a lousy job getting me to pay attention to him. Thanks to Mel, I'm an unabashedly loud fan of Shakespeare. But I admit, he can be an acquired taste for many people. I think it's a lot easier to enjoy Shakespeare's plays if you see them performed rather than read them. But his sonnets are nothing to sneeze at either.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I grew up with Olivier's Hamlet, but my first Hamlet was on a class trip to New York City (I'm a Brooklyn guy), where I was completely mesmerized by all the bodies at the end of the play and was full sighted then - no one-eyed Cherokee in the audience when I was younger. Shakespeare interpretation is so very important. Midsummers Night Dream can be the longest bore one can imagine, but the Kevin Kline film was so alive and gelled well, in fact there were moments during the "mechnicals" playlet that the heavens opened for me, and that never happened before. The sweeping recitations of Romeo & Juliet in Shakespeare in Love were scintillating. Brannaugh and then-wife, Thompson catapult Much Ado About Nothing into space. And Katherine Hepburn's portia was beyond reproach. Sometimes a favorite actress can be stunningly bad in a part. Judi Dench's Titatnia, completely played topless (she was young and nubile then), was a riveting mess. etc. etc. etc.

The question is: How many copies of the Misogynist have been sold by this long hijacked, off-topic thread. I think we need to establish a Shakespeare thread in the Book Corner. nes pas.
Edward C. Patterson


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

We have decided in other threads that we like to discuss the Bard.
Let's do it here.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Thanks for starting this Geoff.

My first exposure to the Bard was seeing the Franco Zefferelli Romeo and Juliet in the movie theater as an 8th grade field trip.

I think that Shakespeare is better experienced live (or taped) then read, since the language and especially his syntax is sometimes difficult to get when reading.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Just popping in to register and follow this thread.

"Adieu! Adieu! a Thousand times, adieu. Isn't that much adieu about nothing. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Several people have mentioned (in other threads mostly) that a significant event in their appreciation of Shakepeare was to see a live play.  And who the actors were that made it memorable.  I think Ed mentioned a version of Midsummer's Night Dreams.  And I was not sure how well he liked the young Judi Dench.
Well I also saw Midsummer as an introduction to the live performance of the Bard's work.  And the role of Nick Bottom was played by Bert Lahr.  Yes the Wizard of Oz' Cowardly Lion.
The play was presented by the New York S'peare company.  But I have no idea who else was in the performance.  Bert Lahr was mesmerizing.
So Bottom became the most important part in the play.

I think that often Puck is. But not this time. And certainly not for me.

Just sayin......


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## OliviaD (Jul 21, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Thanks for starting this Geoff.
> 
> My first exposure to the Bard was seeing the Franco Zefferelli Romeo and Juliet in the movie theater as an 8th grade field trip.
> 
> I think that Shakespeare is better experienced live (or taped) then read, since the language and especially his syntax is sometimes difficult to get when reading.


Hi, I'm kind of new here, so I hope my posts get to be as good as some of the things I've read so far, but I had to post here because I am a fan of the Bard as well, though maybe not as well versed (pun) as some of you guys. I agree with Geoff that Shakespeare takes on a much deeper meaning and depth of character not to mention being better understood when heard aloud. I had to read much in high school and later in college and some of it didn't make sense until I heard it read or saw it acted out. Beryl


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

I vote we continue this discussion in this thread. 

Or any other, frankly . . .


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Judi Dench, who love as an actress, did this early stint in B&W as Titiana, topless and in a monotone delivery. It was quite Bizarre.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Judi Dench's Titatnia, completely played topless (she was young and nubile then), was a riveting mess. etc. etc. etc.


hmmm.....did she play it topless because of the character's name? 
I think I would have found that distracting.......
(is it still available?  )


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I like the annotated versions so I can see what words mean totally different things now than they did then, that helps a lot. Has anyone seen annotated Kindle editions?


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Yes, its an old BBC production and I have it somewhere on tape. Now, I was distracted by the later version with Christian Bale running around naked in the forest.
But that's just me.  

Ed Patterson


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Christian Bale. Yep. That'll do it.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

He was young then. But he's been chucking off his pants since his Venvet Underground days.

Ed P


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## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

We had to read a Shakespeare play every year in English Class beginning in 9th grade as  mandated by the New York State Board of Regents (this was back in the 60's not sure what they do today).  We also went on a field trip to a  local University to see the play acted out after we read it.  It was a great learning experience and we learned early on how to appreciate his genius.  
Now I love seeing local theater groups perform Shakespeare in the Park.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I went to HS in New York and was subjected to the same regency requirements. The Regent examination required us to quote "tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow" from Macbeth.

Ed Patterson


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

That was one of Sr. Mimi Jo's favorite bits. . . .she also liked Portia's speech from _The Merchant of Venice_: "The quality of mercy is not strained. . . ." My HS English teacher had made us memorize a portion of that and I got major points with the good Sister because I could recite it.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> That was one of Sr. Mimi Jo's favorite bits. . . .she also liked Portia's speech from _The Merchant of Venice_: "The quality of mercy is not strained. . . ." My HS English teacher had made us memorize a portion of that and I got major points with the good Sister because I could recite it.


I got some major points with my high school teacher when we were required to write an essay based on our favorite lines from Romeo and Juliet (we had been to see that wonderful little movie that was out in the early


Spoiler



seventies


 I think). Anyhow, I quoted "Romeo, Romeo, where


Spoiler



fart


thou?" and wrote a rather bawdy essay on it. I got A+ for style/grammar and F for content. I say you can't please them all! LOL.


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## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I went to HS in New York and was subjected to the same regency requirements. The Regent examination required us to quote "tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow" from Macbeth.
> 
> Ed Patterson


I remember having to memorize the Double Double Toil and Trouble passage...also MacBeth.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

NYC high schools in the 1980s were still doing at least one Shakespeare a year.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I went through NYC high school system in 1960-64.

Ed Patterson


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I appreciate the great story-telling and the way his writing "sings," but as far as reading Shakespeare goes, it's just too much of a chore for me between dealing with the Elizabethan (or whatever) language and the many idioms and contemporary references that go over my head.

I have, however, enjoyed some of the movie adaptations I've seen. Kenneth Branaugh's _Henry V_ comes to mind. I saw a stage version of _MacBeth_ that was very enjoyable, too. (I think it was a college production, nobody famous in it that I know of.)


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I was enchanted by Franco Zeffirelli's 1968 Romeo and Juliet with teenage leads, Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey, already experienced actors. "Zeffirelli has been particularly praised, for his presentation of the duel scene as bravado getting out-of-control. The film courted controversy by including a nude wedding-night scene while Olivia Hussey was only fifteen." 
It was sweet and moving and the play seemed new to me because of it.

And of course, who could not like the West Side Story modification.

So much to like.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

BTW, if you want to read a fun reinterpretation of _MacBeth_:



Compliments of your friendly neighborhood "Discworld" pusher.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

NogDog said:


> I appreciate the great story-telling and the way his writing "sings," but as far as reading Shakespeare goes, it's just too much of a chore for me between dealing with the Elizabethan (or whatever) language and the many idioms and contemporary references that go over my head.


There's really no way to read Shakespeare in the present time without copiously annotated editions of his work. I still cherish my backbreakingly big hardbound standard text edited by G. L. Kittredge, but Kindle has the Bard's complete works newly edited by David Bevington, with historical background, annotations, etc. almost appallingly cheap at a single dollar.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-Shakespeare-works-ebook/dp/B0023W6HX2

If I ever taught Shakespeare, it'd be holistically. His was a fascinating time, with so much that seems the stuff of fantasy now. (Speaking of fantasy, I'm a huge fan of E. R. Eddison, who was heavily influenced by the Elizabethan era.)

CK
Surprised and delighted to find herself originator of this thread...thanks, Betsy!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Mine was the Riverside Shakespeare. . . . pages were like tissue paper, but the thing still weighed a ton!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

My parents bought me for Christmas one year (I think when I was 30), Rowse's Annotated Shakespeare, in 3 big coffee table size volumes (ten tons) and heavily illustrated. I's winking at me as we speak. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

All the editions named are great and certainly weighty ones.    But to think that the Bevington Kindle edition is light as air, and costs almost nothing! I hope Sweet Will is looking down from his cushioned couch in Elysium and smiling at us lucky mortals. 

"How far that little candle throws its beams!"

CK


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Mine was the Riverside Shakespeare. . . . pages were like tissue paper, but the thing still weighed a ton!


Mine too! I still have it on my self.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> There's really no way to read Shakespeare in the present time without copiously annotated editions of his work. I still cherish my backbreakingly big hardbound standard text edited by G. L. Kittredge, but Kindle has the Bard's complete works newly edited by David Bevington, with historical background, annotations, etc. almost appallingly cheap at a single dollar.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-Shakespeare-works-ebook/dp/B0023W6HX2
> 
> ...


Do you have this edition on Kindle? I was looking at it at the link in your post and the reviews that discuss the kindle ed. say it is missing comments, notes, and has format issues. I was wondering if you have the book and if you have found it to be complete and formatted ok?


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

NogDog said:


> BTW, if you want to read a fun reinterpretation of _MacBeth_:
> 
> 
> 
> Compliments of your friendly neighborhood "Discworld" pusher.


Cristopher Moore's Fool is another laugh out loud take on the story, link maker won't get the kindle ed. but I read it on kindle. Here is the paperback


Also, for those who have a hard time with the language, the No fear Shakespeare are side by side works. Meaning on one page it is _typical_ Shakespeare, the facing page is our standard english.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Red said:


> Do you have this edition on Kindle? I was looking at it at the link in your post and the reviews that discuss the kindle ed. say it is missing comments, notes, and has format issues. I was wondering if you have the book and if you have found it to be complete and formatted ok?


Thanks for that information, Red (your name describes my face just now, btw ). I've gone back and checked the reviews you mentioned, and am surprised/irked the Kindle version of the original has so many problems. Since I'm getting a Kindle for my birthday (September) and would like to have that edition at that price, I'll contact the publisher and ask about corrections.

It's my hope that more standard editons are made Kindle available soon. I'll be glad to pay more than a dollar, seriously.

CK


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> Carolyn,
> I can't tell you how much I agree. Hamlet just wasn't doing it for me. I tried to appreciate it a couple of times. Until I saw Mel in that movie. He was terrific. Pure Shakespeare. No madmax. I was waiting for the "look" in the eyes. Never came. No exploding cars. And I got Hamlet. Finally.
> 
> Just nice to see someone else reacted to it.


Gibson's interpretation of Hamlet really is a must-see. He brings a freshness and humor to the part that makes it a standout. And as you noted in another post, the Zeffirelli 'Romeo and Juliet' is exquisite. Besides the young lovers, the Nurse, Mercutio, and the stunning then-young Michael York as Tybalt were extraordinary.

A very fun Shakespeare spin-off movie: Tom Stoppard's 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead,' with Gary Oldman and Tim Roth simply terrific together. The chemistry crackles.

CK


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## patrisha w. (Oct 28, 2008)

I feel I was SO fortunate to grow up in a country {England} and a time when Shakespeare was read in schools from about age 11 onwards. I never actually "studied " his plays until my last year in school when our set play for examination purposes was Macbeth. All the other years I was exposed to Shakespearean plays were just for fun.

Our set poets were Sheets and Kelly---umm, John Keats and Percy Bysshe Shelley, and our literature that year was _A Tale of Two Cities_. "It was the best of times; it was the worst of times..." 

The first Shakespeare play I saw with professional live actors was "Hamlet" at the Nottingham Rep Theatre

Patrisha


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> Thanks for that information, Red (your name describes my face just now, btw ). I've gone back and checked the reviews you mentioned, and am surprised/irked the Kindle version of the original has so many problems. Since I'm getting a Kindle for my birthday (September) and would like to have that edition at that price, I'll contact the publisher and ask about corrections.
> 
> It's my hope that more standard editons are made Kindle available soon. I'll be glad to pay more than a dollar, seriously.
> 
> CK


I will pay more than a dollar, much more, for it correctly formatted on kindle too!


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## OliviaD (Jul 21, 2009)

NogDog said:


> I appreciate the great story-telling and the way his writing "sings," but as far as reading Shakespeare goes, it's just too much of a chore for me between dealing with the Elizabethan (or whatever) language and the many idioms and contemporary references that go over my head.
> 
> I have, however, enjoyed some of the movie adaptations I've seen. Kenneth Branaugh's _Henry V_ comes to mind. I saw a stage version of _MacBeth_ that was very enjoyable, too. (I think it was a college production, nobody famous in it that I know of.)


I really love Kenneth Brannaugh's stuff. Does anyone think he looks something like Keefer Southerland or is that just me? I know there's an age different, but... I've always wanted to visit England and see something in the Globe Theater replica and take a Shakespeare tour. I really enjoy the Shakespearean parody at the Rennaissance Fesival. These posts are great. Thanks everyone. Beryl


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

patrisha #150 said:


> I feel I was SO fortunate to grow up in a country {England}
> Our set poets were Sheets and Kelly---umm, John Keats and Percy Bysshe Shelley, and our literature that year was _A Tale of Two Cities_. "It was the best of times; it was the worst of times..."
> Patrisha


You were lucky to grow up in England IMHO. I was born and raised in Texas, but I still feel like a misplaced soul. My heart belongs to Scotland even though I've not been there in this life. I figure it's because I must have spent an inordinate number of karmic lifetimes as a Scot before finally seeing the light and getting myself born in Texas. LOL  I do so hope to visit England and Scotland before I succomb. Love the Sheets and Kelly. Especially, Mrs. Kelly's _Stankenfrein_, one my novorite favels.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Beryl said:


> I've always wanted to visit England and see something in the Globe Theater replica and take a Shakespeare tour.


For some reason I've never made it to the Globe replica in London, although I've seen 'As You Like It' in Kensington Park, and another time managed to get over to Stratford-on-Avon for 'Anthony and Cleopatra.' The Globe definitely goes on my list of things to see if and when I get back to Britain. I hope you get to visit soon!

In the meantime, there's the replica in Odessa, Texas (I had no idea one existed until I just now Googled it).

CK


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> For some reason I've never made it to the Globe replica in London, although I've seen 'As You Like It' in Kensington Park, and another time managed to get over to Stratford-on-Avon for 'Anthony and Cleopatra.' The Globe definitely goes on my list of things to see if and when I get back to Britain. I hope you get to visit soon!
> 
> In the meantime, there's the replica in Odessa, Texas (I had no idea one existed until I just now Googled it).
> 
> CK


Thanks, Miss Carolyn. Odessa is a lot closer than England. I might actually achieve that dream. Have you ever seen 'the Sound and Fury'? It's a two-man show that does a horribly funny rendition of Shakespeare at the Renn Fest. They made me laugh so hard I almost split my pitard! LOL


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> Thanks, Miss Carolyn. Odessa is a lot closer than England. I might actually achieve that dream. Have you ever seen 'the Sound and Fury'? It's a two-man show that does a horribly funny rendition of Shakespeare at the Renn Fest. They made me laugh so hard I almost split my pitard! LOL


Yet another thing that I hope to someday experience: a Renaissance Fair[e]! I have, though, visited the ancestral crags in bonny Scotland a couple of times (I'm full highland Scots on my mother's side), and I can safely say that kilts are the ultimate male attire, and haggis is inexplicably underrated.

Having read your post, I Googled up Sound and Fury's website and some of their videos...Shakespeare would love 'em. Thanks!

CK


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> Yet another thing that I hope to someday experience: a Renaissance Fair[e]! I have, though, visited the ancestral crags in bonny Scotland a couple of times (I'm full highland Scots on my mother's side), and I can safely say that kilts are the ultimate male attire, and haggis is inexplicably underrated.
> 
> Having read your post, I Googled up Sound and Fury's website and some of their videos...Shakespeare would love 'em. Thanks!
> 
> CK


You've got to go! You'd be as absolutely addicted as I am. Oh, I am peagreen with envy! Kilts. It takes a manly man to wear one of those... I must have one! LOL Since my main character is a Scot, it would have to be Ramsay red or Ramsay blue.


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## OliviaD (Jul 21, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> You've got to go! You'd be as absolutely addicted as I am. Oh, I am peagreen with envy! Kilts. It takes a manly man to wear one of those... I must have one! LOL Since my main character is a Scot, it would have to be Ramsay red or Ramsay blue.


Mr. Carroll, I love the Renn Fest and try to go to the one at Plantersville two or three times a season. I'm so glad they made it two months long. I sometimes dress in character. Nothing over the top, but I love to pretend. Do you own a kilt? If so, do you wear one to the festival? Beryl


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Beryl said:


> Mr. Carroll, I love the Renn Fest and try to go to the one at Plantersville two or three times a season. I'm so glad they made it two months long. I sometimes dress in character. Nothing over the top, but I love to pretend. Do you own a kilt? If so, do you wear one to the festival? Beryl


I do go in costume sometimes. I've collected quite a few different odds and ends to wear and I admire all the really outlandish costumes like the Centaur fellow and the barbarian warriors. A friend of mine goes every year as an executioner replete with black leather mask and


Spoiler



codpiece


, but I'm not that gutsy.  I like to look at the lassies in chain mail, fur sure, especially the barbarian 'ladies'.  If I had a kilt, I would wear it, but I priced the whole get-up once and the total was staggering.  I've been going to Scarborough Faire in Waxahatchie, but started out in Plantersville. I still go when I get the chance. I've always wanted to practice up my Shakespearean lingo and go as a Fishmonger's Wife in drag! Ha!  That's sort of OT, isn't it?


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Alright. Why did Shakespeare name a play A Winter's Tale, when there's not any merry seasonal business about it. ho ho ho?

Edward C. Patterson


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Alright. Why did Shakespeare name a play A Winter's Tale, when there's not any merry seasonal business about it. ho ho ho?
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


OK, I give up. Why?


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Well, a Winter is not a season. A Winter is a Winemaker (Vintner), so Shakespeare suggests that the play is a tale from the Wine House (Although I hope Amy has nothing to do with it).

Edward C. Patterson


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

OMG.  Mayhap I will get the chance to check that one out.  A play on words on words a play.  Egad!  A winehouse... is that not much like an alehouse, hence similiar to a roadhouse or perchance, a honky-tonk?


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## TSinGA (Jul 2, 2009)

Thank you for the Amazon link to the complete works. For a dollar, I decided to give it a whirl.

I couldn't help thinking it would be good to visit the works again, especially in Kindle format. I am reading "Duma Key" by Stephen King, and he uses "full fathom five" to describe a character sinking into a soft couch. However, I'd like to read that phrase in its original context - The Tempest  (I wonder if said character will undergo a sea change soon) 

One of my favorite image producing quotes is "The cowslips tall her pensioners be..." from A Midsummer's Night's Dream.

PS - When I lived up north, I loved to go to Stratford, Canada to see the plays. I highly recommend it to anyone who lives nearby or can make the trip.

EDIT: On initial glance, I prefer a Complete Works - .99cent - code: B0025KVK98 found here:
 [URL=http://www.amazon.com/Complete-William-Shakespeare-Contents-ebook/dp/B0025KVK98/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1248549077&sr=1-3]http://www.amazon.com/Complete-William-Shakespeare-Contents-ebook/dp/B0025KVK98/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1248549077&sr=1-3 [/url]
It opens to text, but previous page to see Table of Contents.

Now I want to take this review back -- Sonnet one has ROM fairest creatures instead of From Fairest creatures.. Huh!


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Have we exhausted comments about William.
No further reminiscences about favorite productions seen.
Or Movies made and enjoyed?

I am just surprised that we seem to have run out of content.
Or did we just get this thread sidetracked?

Just wonderin........


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> Have we exhausted comments about William.
> No further reminiscences about favorite productions seen.
> Or Movies made and enjoyed?
> 
> ...


Actually, I was just thinking there's hardly a day that goes by that I don't recall Shakespeare in some context or other. Example for this day in particular: I was for some reason remembering the game called tug o' war, and wondering if it got its name from the saying 'when Greek meets Greek, then comes the tug of war,' which I vaguely recalled as a line from _Troilus and Cressida_. Thanks to Wikipedia and Google, I now realize I was remembering another play by another author (Nathaniel Lee's 1677 _The Rival Queens_, and the Bard's words (from T&C's prologue) were actually

'Like or find fault; do as your pleasures are:
Now good or bad, 'tis but the chance of war.'

As for the game, Wiki notes "the phrase 'tug of war' originally meant the decisive contest; the real struggle or tussle; a severe contest for supremacy. Only in the 19th century was it used as a term for an athletic contest between two teams who haul at the opposite ends of a rope."

_Troilus and Cressida_ is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays. I'd love to see it performed.

CK


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## OliviaD (Jul 21, 2009)

OK.  Who believes that William Shakespeare was actually a real person or Sir Francis Bacon?  The mainstream thought is that William Shakespeare was actually an actor, but the other school thinks that Sir Francis Bacon wrote the plays and had to assume a pen name to protect himself from the King's wrath.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

If my Kindleboard ranking is to be believed then I exist.  

Ed Patterson


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> If my Kindleboard ranking is to be believed then I exist.
> 
> Ed Patterson


OK, who said this: Romeo, Romeo. Where


Spoiler



fart


 thou, Romeo? I believe that it is entirely possible that Sir Francis Bacon did, indeed, write Shakespeare's stuff. Why, you may gasp. Why, because I am a firm believer in any and all conspiracy theories and being a Rosicrucian student myself, I also believe that Sir Francis might very well have been a student of the esoteric mystery school. Who knows? That's why they call them secret societies. And am I really a Rosicrucian? What if I said "I'm a liar and, in fact I'm lying right now."?


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Beryl said:


> OK. Who believes that William Shakespeare was actually a real person or Sir Francis Bacon? The mainstream thought is that William Shakespeare was actually an actor, but the other school thinks that Sir Francis Bacon wrote the plays and had to assume a pen name to protect himself from the King's wrath.


Ample evidence exists that William Shakespeare, actor and playwright, was the author of the works bearing his name. Arguing that he had to have been someone else more educated or noble seems to me like arguing space aliens had to have constructed Stonehenge because humans weren't smart enough to. 

I've read everything (supposedly) by Shakespeare--plays, sonnets, poems--and it's pretty evident that he came from the middle class and went bohemian in the big city. No nobleman would think of using a phrase like 'false as o'er-dyed blacks'--meaning 'as unconvincingly trying-to-look-new as clothes dyed black again and again.'

Others believe that Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, wrote the plays. Wiki observes: "Oxford is most famous today as the strongest alternative candidate proposed for the authorship of Shakespeare's plays, a claim that most historians and literary scholars reject but which is supported by a number of researchers and theatre practitioners. For further information on this topic, see Oxfordian theory."

I've also read a lot of Sir Francis Bacon, and think he was far too cold a fish, too fussy and ascetic, ever to write plays like 'The Taming of the Shrew.' (I could, however, absolutely see him as one of the translators of the King James Bible.) As for de Vere, arguments for and against his authorship can be found at http://absoluteshakespeare.com/trivia/authorship/authorship_de_vere.htm.

Both Queen Elizabeth and King James seemed to have liked Shakespeare. Elizabeth reportedly asked that 'The Merry Wives of Windsor' be written because she was amused by Falstaff and wanted 'to see the fat knight in love.' The unsparing references to drunken and unruly Danes in 'Hamlet' (James' mother was Danish) went uncensored.

As Will himself would say, the plays are the thing. It doesn't matter who he was or wasn't; his legacy is his everlasting glory, and our inestimable treasure.

CK


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

I just remembered this very recent article in Time magazine, about a newly-discovered portrait convincingly argued to be the actual likeness of Shakespeare at the height of his career. He looks fabulous. 

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1883770,00.html

CK


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> As Will himself would say, the plays are the thing. It doesn't matter who he was or wasn't; his legacy is his everlasting glory, and our inestimable treasure.
> 
> CK


Thank you for the informative words. I've never heard of the Edward de Vere theory. But the frigid fish vs. the bawdy bard may not be the definitive argument in favor of the 'real person theory'. I know some people (other than myself) that have several distinctively different personalities residing in their brains and can shift from one persona to another with very little trouble AT WILL. This is the difference between creative intelligence and multiple personality disorder, I believe. In my line of work, I have been forced to master what is called the "Game Face". Sir Francis might have simply been putting on the "Game Face" when he wrote under his real name. You're probably right, however. But I do LOVE a good conspiracy theory.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> Thank you for the informative words. I've never heard of the Edward de Vere theory. But the frigid fish vs. the bawdy bard may not be the definitive argument in favor of the 'real person theory'. I know some people (other than myself) that have several distinctively different personalities residing in their brains and can shift from one persona to another with very little trouble AT WILL. This is the difference between creative intelligence and multiple personality disorder, I believe. In my line of work, I have been forced to master what is called the "Game Face". Sir Francis might have simply been putting on the "Game Face" when he wrote under his real name. You're probably right, however. But I do LOVE a good conspiracy theory.


I own some huge silly book that argues in favor of Oxford; the title escapes me now.

Bacon's writings are beautiful in their way, but are as coldly reasoning as their author was without exception said to be in person. The 'real' personality always comes through in one's writing.

Now that you mention it, I've noticed a distinct dissonance between your Kindleboard persona and the general gravity and seriousness of your book snippets! 

Having no time for/interest in conspiracy theories (I blame my lack of imagination and insufficient personality disorders), I just like the danged plays.

The Wiki article on the 'Oxfordian Theory' is simply delicious to read. Wonderfully well-researched.

CK


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

It is amazing how much research, time and money goes into these things.  If only I could get a grant and study something so interesting.  And so you noticed my personality disorder!   I have to say that my board personality is pretty far from my book personality.  But you can't say you are unimaginative!  How can you be a writer if you don't have imagination?  Not possible.  Don't sell yourself short, Miss Kephart.  I'm going to download a sample of your work and prove it.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> But you can't say you are unimaginative! How can you be a writer if you don't have imagination? Not possible. Don't sell yourself short, Miss Kephart. I'm going to download a sample of your work and prove it.


My imagination isn't absent, just choosy about its fixations. 

I've got snippets all over the place hereabouts, and full first chapters on my website, but if you're downloading a sample I'm complimented. Thanks. 

CK


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> My imagination isn't absent, just choosy about its fixations.
> 
> I've got snippets all over the place hereabouts, and full first chapters on my website, but if you're downloading a sample I'm complimented. Thanks.
> 
> CK


I understand. My is fixated... all over the place.


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## OliviaD (Jul 21, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> OK, who said this: Romeo, Romeo. Where
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Juliet, right? Very cute, Mr. Carroll. I'm not sure about the Shakespeare/Bacon connection. I suppose it was a lot easier to pull those kinds of deceptions off back then, but they also used men to play the women's parts, too. Anything's possible... Beryl


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

You must understand Brendan's inrerest in conspiracy threories. I heard that there is a rumour that most of Truman Capote's work was atually penned by Dame Edna - shhh! but let's not tell Elton John.  

Edward C. Patterson


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> You must understand Brendan's inrerest in conspiracy threories. I heard that there is a rumour that most of Truman Capote's work was atually penned by Dame Edna - shhh! but let's not tell Elton John.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Hey, Mr. Edward, I resemble that remark... err, resent... it must be the Mojito talking. LOL.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I thought you said that Dame Edna wrote In Cold Blood? according to Hannity and Colmes. I'm larking (and barking, the British meaning of that), of course, but you already know that. Actually, I wrote all of Shakespeare's works. That damn Titus Andronicus was a


Spoiler



bitch - well not him, but Tamara


. All that tongue slicing and arm cutting and baking pies that even Julia Childs would find revolting. But it's finish at last, dig a hole and throw her in. Now I can start writing Mr. Stephen King of Maine's works, or perhaps a bit of Thomas Hardy. They both wrote about underaged infanticide and called it Being Obscure in the Pet Semetary. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## geneven (Jul 30, 2009)

I haven't seen a well-annotated Kindle version of all of Shakespeare's plays, and I would never consider buying one that wasn't well-annotated. I know many of the plays well enough, but it just wouldn't be the same -- there's always something to learn from annotations.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

It's funny. One of the first books I bought for the Kindle ws a complete Shakespeare, but after nearly two years of Kindle ownership, I haven't cracked it open, as I haven't reread the plays in a while. I shold scout out the many editons (samples should do) to taste the quality of annotations. I agree, an annotated Shakespeare is important. My DTB verion is in 3 volumes had more annotation that plays.

Ed Patterson


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