# The Roses are Dead (Too Much Manure in Publishing)



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Okay, I tend to rant when I think ppl are getting screwed with and there's been a bunch of stuff that's been floating around so long that ppl think its FACT. Dude, here we go...

These are the things people will tell you that you're passing up if you don't sign on the traditional line, and I'm calling it. It's bullshit. Seriously stinky stuff, and a lot of people don't know, so here's my post.

This is the stuff that's been spread far and wide by the publishing industry for years and most of it is BS. I'm gonna be blunt, b/c you're assuming the grass is greener on the other side, but they don't even have grass over there. Things are that messed up.

An advance against royalties - Have you heard how many of our peers didn't get paid? They entered into a multi book deal like you were offered and well, the pub didn't think book 1 went very well, so books 2 & 3 were cancelled. No money for you.
There's the appearance of stability when working with a publisher, but they cannot offer you job security. All of a sudden, your 3 book, 6-figure deal ends up earning you $30K over 2 years and you want to poke your eye out with a fork. True story - just not mine, thank god. Ask around.

Passing up Print distribution.
PRINT IS DEAD. There's no money in print. Why do you think the big 5.5 are buying up Indie ebooks? Why don't we see the stores stocked with these titles? Where'd they go? I know for a fact that one publisher's plan was to acquire enough Indies to release 70+ new titles in one season and NOT PRINT A THING. But that's not what they told me. Print is dead and the pubs are noticing that isn't where the money is. Which is also why you're getting any guarantee of a print run when you sign that six figure deal.

My books will not be in bookstores.
Mine are and have been since day 1. If enough ppl ask for your book, they will order your book.

My books are likely never to be found in a library.
Also, not true. If enough ppl (usually 6 or so) ask for your book, they will buy your book, Indie or not.

I will never have an editor who will work with me to develop the book and the follow-ups because she loved it enough to acquire it for her house.
Bwuahahhaha! I'm sorry, but you're assuming that they know better than you. Dude, they're part of a dying breed, and they're dying b/c they don't want to change. No one jumps up and down and screams, "oooh, ooooh! pick me!" to be the next casualty of the publishing industry.

I gave up the chance to grow as an author under their (NY editor's) tutelage.
Again, they can't tell their ass from their elbow and you're gonna look really weird at parties trying to sit on the wrong one.

A team of marketing and publicity experts with contacts.
FAKE! Guess what? The experts are few and far between. If the market has shifted to primarily selling intangible goods and you have a panel of ppl who rock at selling paper, then you have a serious problem. The experts aren't there. They'll put you on a mailing list with 2K subscribers that's WAY past it's heyday, and then tell you to buy a bookbub ad (on your dime.)

Authors are expected to market themselves, traditionally published or Indie. If you fail, even after being picked up by one of the big boys, it's your fault. It's never their fault. That's not the kind of people you want to work with. Ever read an article where the publisher goes, "Our marketing effort just didn't connect with readers." It's always the author under-performed, or the title couldn't cross over to print.

The branding a big name publisher can provide.
They have no idea how to do this. The authors who have brands sold scads of books and the pubs rode coattails. You make your brand. You ARE your brand. This is one of those shiny things they dangle to get you to sign, and then you find out it was never there. How do you market intangible goods (goods you can't touch)? I know, and I'm very aware that they do not.

I gave up the opportunity to learn from marketing and publicity experts as well.
No, you didn't. When a big publisher did research on serials, guess who they looked at? When the publishers want to check the market to see what unexpected stuff is going on, do you really think they're looking at each other? No, they're looking at us - Indies. Why? Because we take more risks, and understand the market better b/c we have to. They still get paid even if they're sitting on their elbows. We don't eat if we don't sell our stuff. Poverty is a motivator-it's a bonus really.

I gave up being branded alongside bestselling authors who have been publishing for many years and have many readers.
I've had the big 5 come to me (after refusing over $1.5 million in contracts) to ask me to blurb their book. I'm 100% Indie and pretty much told them that they have no idea how to do anything when I turned them down. They still came asking. You are in good company, and we tend to be more forthright and supportive.

I am less likely to ever make a national bestseller list.
Everyone says that. Statistically, this is inaccurate as the list has been taken over by Indies. As an Indie, you're more likely to make a list IMHO. You have complete control.

I am less likely to sell my other rights, such as audio and foreign translation. Some might counter that I can self-publish my books in audio form, but this is now much more difficult due to recent changes in royalties provided the primary providers of indie Audiobooks, ACX.
Don't even get me started on ACX, but to counter your point - you WILL get audio offers for your book. They'll be around $1K, b/c 'audio just isn't worth that much.' Which is BS. Take it if you want or do it yourself and use a different platform. There's more than just ACX out there. You will get offers on foreign too. Take it if you want. They will find you.

I have most likely lost the chance to sell movie rights.
Not true. Several indies sold film rights.

I may have damaged my chances to become a hybrid author.
Hybrid is a term that the industry made up so they won't get left behind. They want you to think they're relevant and still have something to offer. They don't.

When I walked away from my auction offers, I was told, point-blank, that I would be a "hard sell" to any New York editor after this.
That's bullshit. Money talks. See above reference of me blowing them off and then being asked to blurb a book 2 weeks later. That was a pressure tactic and it's BS.

The cachet of being associated with a big publisher. Being invited to publisher parties at big writers conferences. Networking with industry professionals in a concentrated setting and with a common goal in mind. Being sent on book tours or participating in book signings.
You can still do that and laugh at them as you walk by b/c you're making more money and have more freedom. Ta ta!

If I ever accept a NY contract, I'll never be marketed as a "debut author." 
They wanted to mark me as a 'debut' author after publishing 40+ books. I don't think that's a good thing. It's the newB stamp.

I have lost the opportunity for a traditional publishing house to establish a brand for me.
You said this twice. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THEY INTENDED ON MAKING A BRAND FOR YOU. Branding things is difficult, branding people is even harder. That's not what they do. They know how to print paper and they're abandoning that in an attempt to remain relevant.

I have no idea who got under your skin, but most of these concerns are BS fed to Indies by agents and editors. It's a sales technique called 'fear of loss' - look at everything you gave up by leaving us. Meanwhile, they're telling you about the Indie side of things and they have no clue. A dog can't say what it's like to live as a cat, you get me?

Pay attention to where you hear things. This is part of them tainting the market and making us afraid so we'll sign away our rights for a song. They're taking advantage of people and it's wrong.

It's hard to make an 'informed' decision when the trads are blowing so much smoke up our butts. Seriously.

To those who trad-pubbed and signed on the line, I'm not slamming you. People have to do what they have to do, but please be aware that the industry is crumbling and there are so many false concepts and things that will be offered if you only 'sign here! Sign now! Don't wait!' If anyone treats you like that, run the other way. Fast.

I copied it fm my blog b/c it took me a LONG time to figure out this stuff was crap used with a high pressure sales technique. Writer beware. http://blog.demonkissed.com/?p=1537


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Thanks, H. M. Ward 

P. S. I'm one of those that did get a movie option, on two of my books, plus I've had one audio production co. approach me on a different book. 

You do have to create your own brand. That's one of the first things agents and publishers will do is Google you, to see how much of a reach you have. But nothing trumps sales.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Handing Holly an urn of coffee, 5 lbs of chocolate and all the jelly belly's she wants.
Great post.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Oh my heavens, thank you Holly, I needed this so much!  

I've been jerked around by traditional publishing for the past year - promises, offers, rejections, carrot after carrot. I know for a fact that what you are saying is true because I know a number of traditional published YA authors, I've heard some horror stories from them directly and about them from mutual friends.

And yet they still keep saying yes and I wonder if I'm blowing it by beginning to go down the indie path - what do they know that I don't? A bestselling author I know just taught a writing class to youth at my local writers association and my daughter was in it. She told her how I was probably going to go indie - and the author spat all over it, in a nice, but real way. 

I was at the SCBWI LA conference last year and the agent and editors panel sounded a lot like self-justification for their existence and their jobs. But I know a number of newer agents who write on the side - one of whom indie published her first book and it went big! 

A good agent is still useful - I think - and I have an offer of rep still on the table - but do I want to spend another year while she shops it around only to probably have it be refused? How much could I possibly have achieved on my own in that time?? 

The only thing that gives me pause is the softer market for YA in ebook format - even my daughter still prefers print and this seems to be specific to this group. If not for worries over that, I would have jumped in already.

This is a fantastic post.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

All great points, Holly!

I'm hearing more and more of multi-book deals where no book past the first or second were ever published. It's sad that print is dying, and you're absolutely right that if it's heading to digital, then it's a level playing field - and indies need to understand that.
I will say that the editing skills of some NY editors are outstanding, and yes, I think many writers can benefit from working with them - but (and this is a big but) indie writers need to carefully balance this with their careers and future projections of income. 
Stay in control at all times - especially if you're in a position where you rely on your writing income to pay your bills/mortgage/rent.


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## TuckerAuthor (Jan 31, 2014)

H.M. Ward said:


> I'm gonna be blunt, b/c you're assuming the grass is greener on the other side, but they don't even have grass over there. Things are that messed up.


You're my new hero 

Of course, not all of us will make it big, or even make it at all. But at least this way we're steering our own ship and not just along for a ride that turns from the tunnel of love into the house of horrors more often than not.

Thanks for shedding some more light into the dark corners.


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## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Amazing read, thank you


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Holly, you gotta stop beating around the bush and come right out with how you feel.  

You and Mr. Howey both. 

Or, are you and Hugh sharpening your skills for an ambassador spot at the UN? Ahhhh... that's it!

Great post, as usual.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Dang, girl! Go you!!

ALL true, from what I've observed happening to friends who went the trad route.  One of my friends got a high six-figure deal for three books, and then...well...it turned into only a one-book deal after the first came out.  Not a good situation.  Very sad, in fact. Going through it altered her personality, and I can't blame her for feeling the way she does.

As for books not appearing in places where books appear...today I was at my favorite café and happened to glance at their shelf-o-books that people have left for others to read. There was an H. M. Ward title! And one of CJ Lyons' self-pubbed titles, too. I grinned big to see it.  I wish now I'd taken a picture.

Self-published books do indeedy show up in places where "real" books are found. And that will happen more and more often over the next couple of years, too. 

Thanks for sharing your b.s. counterattack!


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

You tell 'em, Holly.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

That's how you tell 'em!


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## Daniel Dennis (Mar 3, 2014)

Wow. Amen sister.

I've barely sold fifty copies of my first book but I know one went to a library.

I'm also not in it for money (though it would be nice to make some). I wrote my first to give my wife as a gift. I only planned to print one copy and call it quits. The only reason I marketed it was she thought others would enjoy it. I'm not sure I'd want the stress of a huge publication.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## von19 (Feb 20, 2013)

Your an Angel. Thank You.

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Great post. Not only is it BS, but it is persistent BS. What you say has been true for quite a while now. I concluded some time ago that trade publishing is the new vanity publishing. It's sad that so many authors are willing to postpone their careers for the illusion of acceptance. I guess I should just be relieved I don't have to compete with them all and leave it at that.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Just what I needed after spending the afternoon emailing my Big 5 publisher with the question, "Why can't I find my book on your website?" (The answer is, "Because it's on a different website with a url that is not recognizable to anyone who doesn't know what little company was swallowed up 20 years ago, even though you never published with them.") I tried to advance it to, "And, so, can you FIX THAT?" but we didn't really get that far ...

An indie can change a url or a website link in under a minute. This will probably take me all year. Or forever. Of course, I also slowed them down by asking, "How come this book that has nothing to do with me whatsoever is listed under my name?" Again, an indie could fix that in minutes, if not seconds. But no, they don't have any speshul skillz over there in Big 5 marketing departments. They can't even get a website together. Which matters if, as they tell me, their "marketing plan" amounts to "We list your books on our site."

For the record, I have never experienced anyone--publisher, editor, reviewer, presenter, reader, family member, anybody--behave to me as if indie publishing were somehow "lesser" than any other type of publishing. I think that ship already sailed.

Trad publishing is fine for people who really do not want to handle various aspects of the publishing process, and for some kinds of niche books with high production costs. (Also for people who truly enjoy auditing royalty statements once or twice a year.) But that doesn't mean it's advantageous for everyone, not by a long shot.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

You go girl!

This reminded me of one of my pet peeves: when you see an article about an indie who made a trad deal, it's always the spin of how the indie "managed" to get the deal, as if they graduated from self-publishing to "real" publishing. Just goes to show how perception is still behind reality, at least for the next few years.

All I have to say is...this makes me even PROUDER to be an indie.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

I tried finding an agent. I even had requests for my manuscript. Everyone turned out the same way... We like this, but there's no market for Women's Memoirs. So I self-published. And I am very thankful I did.

Thank you for posting this!


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

I've actually been on the other side, from before ebooks made money for anyone.  I largely agree--and have more to add.

>Passing up Print distribution.

Print is NOT dead at all......IF you get placement.  If your placement is going to be back on the shelves of a bookstore, forget it.  You need to be in Wal-mart, Target, airports, and grocery stores.  You need co-op placement in the bookstores.  Otherwise, print distribution adds almost nothing to discoverability.  Unless you are an extremely strong-selling author already, you won't get this in your contract.  If you are extremely strong-selling, you would have to fight for it.  I recommend not taking ANY contract unless this sort of thing is spelled out.  

If you are strong-selling, you will STILL have to give up your digital rights if you go with the Big 5.  You could use this to leverage the exposure to new audiences in the same way that people use permafree, but you WILL lose money if you let them have those rights.

What we need now is a co-op "publisher"/distributor that only takes already successful books and finds physical distribution for them, especially in grocery and big-box stores and in airport stores.  These places move books 2:1 over Barnes and Noble--easy.  More like 4:1.  This venue should be leverage to drive people to discover us in unlikely places and then drive them to our ebooks, so it would contain references and teasers in there building up the individual author's brand--NOT the publisher.

Because the books would already be print-ready, the non-printing-and-distribution overhead of the company would be nil, and you could double the writers' royalties.

>I will never have an editor who will work with me to develop the book and the follow-ups because she loved it enough to acquire it for her house.
>I gave up the chance to grow as an author under their (NY editor’s) tutelage.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..............

Excuse me.  BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

First of all, you're assuming your editor will know anything at all about your genre.  Now, fantasy/SF is the exception to this (most SF/F editors DO have a genuine passion for the genre), but for most commercial fiction, you have a very, very good chance of having an editor who NEVER EVEN READ A SINGLE BOOK in your genre until after she graduated in English from her Seven Sisters college and got a position as an editorial assistant.  It's even likely that she actually despises your genre and is just biding her time until she gets to change departments and get a "real job" finding the next Great American Novel.

Do you really think that someone who hates your genre is suitable to edit it?

In addition, she almost certainly doesn't know how to write.  And she doesn't know what makes a book work.  She can't edit because she doesn't understand the craft at any level.  She went to school to write critical essays about the classics.  She doesn't know ANYTHING about the craft of fiction.

There are exceptions.  They exist.  They are rare.

>A team of marketing and publicity experts with contacts.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I browbeat my publisher into allowing me to send a flyer out to 500 bookstores with their materials.  That was on MY DIME.  My publisher didn't spend a RED CENT on co-op placement.  B&N saw that I was a bestseller (by numbers) and gave me table placement anyway, because I was making them money.  My publisher responded by....letting my book get sold out and not printing more.

Yep.  They're the experts.

The one time they convinced me to let them write my cover copy, they destroyed my sales.

So much for the freaking experts.

I have so many other things that I could tell you.  If anyone says they're experts or, heck, even competent...NO.  I didn't feel like they were promoting me.  I felt like they were sabotaging me, over and over again.

All publishing is a lottery.  It really is.  Yes, talent helps a ton.  But all the bestsellers who create other pen names and then quickly realize that they make way more money if people know it's them are coming up against the fact that luck really does play a role.

Traditional publishing is like entering a lottery while being shot at by your publisher.

>The branding a big name publisher can provide.

The publisher DOES NOT WANT TO BRAND YOU.  I can't stress this enough.  The publisher wants to be the brand.  They want to send people to their publisher's website.  They want to announce the publisher's next titles.  If they give you a distinct look & feel, it's something you can't take with you when you go elsewhere.  They own it, not you.

Think I'm kidding?  Look at traditionally published romances in 1980 versus 2000.  Notice how much more variety there used to be in what constituted a romance.  The definition shrunk because publishers were striving to make the author as interchangeable as possible so that readers would treat the books like a commodity good.  It wasn't just Harlequin.  The Big 5 are just as guilty.  They've killed entire subgenres by redefining the genre so narrowly that the vigor is sucked out of them.

>I gave up the opportunity to learn from marketing and publicity experts as well.

No.  The marketing department doesn't read or understand fiction.  And they don't understand marketing, either.  Really.

>I am less likely to ever make a national bestseller list.

I think it's WAY easier to get on the list as an indie, actually.

>I am less likely to sell my other rights, such as audio and foreign translation. Some might counter that I can self-publish my books in audio form, but this is now much more difficult due to recent changes in royalties provided the primary providers of indie Audiobooks, ACX.

I never sold my audio rights as a traditionally pubbed author.  As an indie, I will be more likely to use them.  I looooooooove foreign translations.  Now, if I make decent money, I'll be paying for my own in the digital market and will be keeping way more money.  I'll have my agent shop around the physical rights just like before, which is all I ever sold before to foreign publishers, anyway--at least on the contracts I could read when they were sent to me.

>I have most likely lost the chance to sell movie rights.

Pfffffth.  Yeah, right.

>I may have damaged my chances to become a hybrid author.

No.  Having muscle as an indie fiirst is the ONLY POSSIBLE way I can see short of being struck by lightning to possibly get decent treatment from a publisher today.

>The cachet of being associated with a big publisher. Being invited to publisher parties at big writers conferences. Networking with industry professionals in a concentrated setting and with a common goal in mind. Being sent on book tours or participating in book signings.

Cachet doesn't pay bills.  We used to call people publishing for cachet "vanity published."

The publishers' parties aren't that exciting.  Really.  Once, I got stuck at a table with the very young head of marketing, who spend the entire time talking about J Lo's butt.  At the end of the day, what did I get?  A nice meal and the owner of the five-star restaurant trying to set me up with his son.  That's it.  Networking of this sort is overrated.

Book signings don't sell books.  They really don't.  They don't even connect you to booksellers much anymore because most of the chains make no effort to find employees who are enthusiastic about reading.  Booksellers don't handsell books anymore, and they don't make recommendations to browsers.  How many times have you been approached by an employee at B&N and had a book recommended to you based on what you were looking at?  Me?  ZERO.  The checkers are at times more enthusiastic, but only a little.

>If I ever accept a NY contract, I’ll never be marketed as a “debut author.” 

Yes, you could.  Heck, I could.  New name, new writer!  Whoop!  Seriously, you can lose your publishing virginity as many times as you want.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

How does Amazon fit into all this as a publisher?


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOHOO!

LONG LIVE THE NEW PRAWN ORDER!!

I'm bookmarking this for my spine, just in case someone who gets 15% or more on my transactions comes along to whisper sweet, flattering things.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Quiss said:


> How does Amazon fit into all this as a publisher?


I don't like putting too many eggs in one basket, in principle. More than that, there's the issue that neither Wal-mart nor B&N will stock Amazon titles. Especially Wal-mart.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Quiss said:


> How does Amazon fit into all this as a publisher?


 their imprints seem to be following the beaten path that's been littered with dead horses. They smile more, but other than that, I haven't seen any major differences. I'd HOPED they'd be like kdp, but so far that's not the case. amazoncrossing isn't like kdp either. NOTHING is like kdp. I don't talk about them much, b/c they are stellar. They hold the bar and they hold it high. If they kicked all their sister companies in the ass, then they could take over the world - in a good way.

I told my kdp rep recently that if the rest of the author services ran like him and my rep at CS, they'd own the whole damn market. The two of them are fantastic.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Holly, you gotta stop beating around the bush and come right out with how you feel.
> 
> You and Mr. Howey both.
> 
> ...


Damn, I restrained myself too much again, didn't I?


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## Gabriela Popa (Apr 7, 2010)

H.M. Ward said:


> d*mn, I restrained myself too much again, didn't I?


"What good is power when you're too wise to use it?" 
― Ursula K. Le Guin, A Wizard of Earthsea

Also, just curious if you got the chance to publish the article you took questions from authors some ~2 weeks ago or so? I look forward to reading it!


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## micki (Oct 8, 2010)

Such an interesting post Holly--thanks so much.


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## Kristin_LE (Jan 20, 2014)

Thank you Holly and vmblack. The decision to release my series indie or try the traditional route has been a tough one, but posts like these help. Especially from people who have been there/done that. My career path took me to product branding and marketing - who knew my love for telling stories would benefit so much from that knowledge?


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

Thank you, Holly. You're always an inspiration.


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## phildukephd (Jan 6, 2013)

Electronic books are the result of scientific advance, and once on the scene they must inexorably drive print books, and all the utter crap now associated with them, out of the publishing industry, simply due to the *VERY great ADVANTAGES OF EBOOKS OVER PRINT BOOKS.*

*The central advantage of ebooks is they are MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE TO PUBLISH AND MARKET. THAT'S IT! ECONOMICS RULES. And, they are much more versatile.*

Due to the above ebooks offer much more variety, and in some cases better quality than many print books.

I have been writing for many years, I have been a professional editor, and my ebooks are edited better than many print books. My ebooks are better written overall than many print books. My ebook subjects are in many cases such that print publishers fear them, despite their (great) relevance and importance. ALL my 28 ebooks are available free, on request only.

As sure as the Earth turns, before long the relationship of print to ebooks will be like that of horses to motorcars. There are still horses around, and some people ride them, but- do YOU and most everyone else ride on a horse, or in a car?

I am happy to see the print editors, agents and publishers swept away, because in the past they rarely treated authors decently, and now they never do. NEVER. And, on balance they were bad for the reading public, because their publishing gates were barely open, and then mostly just for money. *Now it is only for money.
*
Indie authors, the future is yours! Just keep on writing. 

Best regards,

*Phillip Duke Ph.D.* My real name.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2014)

Thanks H.M. !

I'm sending your blog post over to a Facebook friend of mine who is on the fence about whether to go trad or indie.  

Jolie


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Joliedupre said:


> Thanks H.M. !
> 
> I'm sending your blog post over to a Facebook friend of mine who is on the fence about whether to go trad or indie.
> 
> Jolie


Sitting on the chain link fence just gets your panties torn. True story. I was 5 and wearing a dress. Ouch. Tell her to get off the fence.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

> Sitting on the chain link fence just gets your panties torn.


Sitting on a wooden fence is worse - splinters 

TBH, the only reason i can see for pursuing a trad publishing deal is if you write literary fiction and want to pursue grants and teaching positions. In Australia, because the book market is so tiny, that's always been the conventional path. It's almost impossible to get a look in here writing genre fiction. You can get decent $$$ grants for writing here but you have to squeeze your writing into a tiny little box of what's acceptable. And really I'd much rather spend my time writing fiction than learning how to write grants or teach.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2014)

H.M. Ward said:


> Sitting on the chain link fence just gets your panties torn. True story. I was 5 and wearing a dress. Ouch. Tell her to get off the fence.


She read it! I also encouraged her to follow WC at KBoards. As far as I'm concerned, WC is a must for new indie authors. So I hope she takes my advice.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2014)

Drew Smith said:


> You have now won the Indie vs. Trad debate.


Yeah.

I don't kiss a** and I don't bullsh*t. Therefore, I can HONESTLY say that H.M.'s blog post was one of the *BEST*, if not *THE BEST*, I've read about indie vs. trad.


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

I think this is what clarity looks like.

Bravo!


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## Maya Cross (May 28, 2012)

In most situations I think this is all great advice, but I do think it's a little more complicated than that. I think genre plays a role. If you're writing romances or thrillers, self publishing is a no brainer. It's probably the same with sci-fi at this point. On the flipside, I'm not sure I can think of any breakout indie YA authors. I could very well be wrong since I've been a little out of touch lately, but I can't recall ever seeing any indie titles on the children's page of the NYT list for example. That's not to say that makes trad publishing the right course for that genre, but I think the authors really breaking out with YA are still coming from trad publishing. I feel like some other genres might also be grey areas, like Fantasy, which has certain publishers that are very good in their niche (eg: TOR). Not all audience are migrating equally to new technology either.

I'm not writing off trad publishing just yet, but obviously the mechanics of it are archaic and everyone should be wary of that.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Maya Cross said:


> In most situations I think this is all great advice, but I do think it's a little more complicated than that. I think genre plays a role. If you're writing romances or thrillers, self publishing is a no brainer. It's probably the same with sci-fi at this point. On the flipside, I'm not sure I can think of any breakout indie YA authors. I could very well be wrong since I've been a little out of touch lately, but I can't recall ever seeing any indie titles on the children's page of the NYT list for example. That's not to say that makes trad publishing the right course for that genre, but I think the authors really breaking out with YA are still coming from trad publishing. I feel like some other genres might also be grey areas, like Fantasy, which has certain publishers that are very good in their niche (eg: TOR). Not all audience are migrating equally to new technology either.
> 
> I'm not writing off trad publishing just yet, but obviously the mechanics of it are archaic and everyone should be wary of that.


There's been a bunch of YA. I really didnt mean this post to be indie vs trad. It's more about being informed. God forbid anyone tell it like it is. I can't stand ppl blowing smoke up my butt. Be blunt, lay out the perks and drawbacks. Every sit. has them. Don't act like they're not there.

I think my next 2 books should be non fict - sex in the bible and marketing for morons.  lol. oooh, or maybe do both and have a limited edition that comes with a lion cloth...

Im sick. Not responsible for what Im saying...


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

Maya Cross said:


> In most situations I think this is all great advice, but I do think it's a little more complicated than that. I think genre plays a role. If you're writing romances or thrillers, self publishing is a no brainer. It's probably the same with sci-fi at this point. On the flipside, I'm not sure I can think of any breakout indie YA authors. I could very well be wrong since I've been a little out of touch lately, but I can't recall ever seeing any indie titles on the children's page of the NYT list for example. That's not to say that makes trad publishing the right course for that genre, but I think the authors really breaking out with YA are still coming from trad publishing. I feel like some other genres might also be grey areas, like Fantasy, which has certain publishers that are very good in their niche (eg: TOR). Not all audience are migrating equally to new technology either.
> 
> I'm not writing off trad publishing just yet, but obviously the mechanics of it are archaic and everyone should be wary of that.


Genre plays a big role, no doubt. Romance is on the leading edge of this revolution. My area (economics) is far behind. But I still prefer to self-publish because I know that someday economics will be where romance is today in terms of ebook adoption and open-ness to indies. When that day comes, I want to own the rights to my books. Plus, I just like self-publising better.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Ben Mathew said:


> Genre plays a big role, no doubt. Romance is on the leading edge of this revolution. My area (economics) is far behind. But I still prefer to self-publish because I know that someday economics will be where romance is today in terms of ebook adoption and open-ness to indies. When that day comes, I want to own the rights to my books. Plus, I just like self-publising better.


 Update your marketing - blurb, cover, sample. Make it a little more tongue in cheek in your approach. You have good reviews. You need a better hook. Sorry if that was too blunt. You're doing well without my comments


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## Michael J. Scott (Sep 2, 2010)

D*mn, girl! Downright inspirational. Now I want to finish something and get it ready to publish!


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2014)

The closer it gets to my debut indie novel, the more nervous I get, even though I know that ultimately I can handle it.  (I'm sure oldies had the same feelings when they started out.)  I have a lot of people asking about my book, and I don't want to disappoint them.  I want to please the people who support me.


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

H.M. Ward said:


> Update your marketing - blurb, cover, sample. Make it a little more tongue in cheek in your approach. You have good reviews. You need a better hook. Sorry if that was too blunt. You're doing well without my comments


Thanks!

#1 indie advises #1,000,000 indie. It's a crazy world! Or at least a crazy forum!


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Maya Cross said:


> In most situations I think this is all great advice, but I do think it's a little more complicated than that. I think genre plays a role. If you're writing romances or thrillers, self publishing is a no brainer. It's probably the same with sci-fi at this point. On the flipside, I'm not sure I can think of any breakout indie YA authors. I could very well be wrong since I've been a little out of touch lately, but I can't recall ever seeing any indie titles on the children's page of the NYT list for example. That's not to say that makes trad publishing the right course for that genre, but I think the authors really breaking out with YA are still coming from trad publishing. I feel like some other genres might also be grey areas, like Fantasy, which has certain publishers that are very good in their niche (eg: TOR). Not all audience are migrating equally to new technology either.
> 
> I'm not writing off trad publishing just yet, but obviously the mechanics of it are archaic and everyone should be wary of that.


YA isn't children's. Children's has been very week. YA has not.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

I would also add that trad publishers don't sign bestselling books. Most don't do well at all. It's a rare exception when they do. So all that approval and cachet doesn't translate into anyone being impressed outside of a six block area in Manhattan, for the most part.

Genre matters. To really break out in my genre, you need to be in airports. I accept that. Would that it were different.

If I were writing NA or romance, there's nothing that a trad pub could offer me other than lightening my wallet by about 4/5ths. In my opinion you'd have to be nuts to sign away your ebook rights in those genres, because the readers aren't really in paper. They're the early adopters of ebooks. And they're serial readers. Voracious, and they don't like paying more than a few bucks. Trad can't service them like indies can.

I think another item that gets overlooked completely is that acquisition editors might be well-intentioned, but in the end, they're employees working for big corporations, and as such they're just trying to either get the job, or keep it. So you get a lot of decision by committee, which is where a lot of the mediocrity factor is introduced. Add to that that the acquisitions staff are generally elitist in their taste, in that their palates are far more refined than readers, that they have little ability to understand what readers will like. The industry privately sneers at the big name blockbusters that pay the light bills, seeming to take pride that those hacks wouldn't ever get signed on their watch. It's typical of the snobbery and detachment from the desires of consumers you see in all big corps, not just publishing companies. The upper management is completely removed from the peons who buy books, and the middle managers are jockeying for power while trying to avoid getting axed - certainly not asking themselves why people are buying X, or seem to enjoy Y more than Z. This results in a kind of circular groupthink that ensures that there will be few innovations or breakouts - just a lot of poop being thrown at walls in the hopes some of it sticks.

I do think we demonize the trad pubs unfairly. The same arrogance and seeming duplicity exists within all large corporations. Talk to a marketing manager at Coca Cola sometime for a sense of entitlement and innate superiority - which is how you get disasters like New Coke being okayed throughout the organization by all the professed geniuses. The truth is that very little of any particular note gets innovated by marketing and managerial wonks at big corporations, nor by the out-of-touch upper managers who never even used the product the company produces. 

What we bemoan about the publishing biz is mostly just business as usual in big corporation land, and is a function of the consolidation in the industry. Exactly none of the acquisitions editors who signed a Ludlum or a King are working, so what you have are the folks who believe their taste to be relevant and superior, but who aren't responsible for signing the very people who pay the rent, and who, if they submitted today, would likely be rejected. I can already hear it. "Horror's dead money. Declining market share. Sorry, Mr. King. It's decently written, but not for us." "Well, Mr. Ludlum, the tropes are rather tired and unremarkable, and there are better examples of them out there. No thanks." "I'm afraid men's fiction's just not seeing the kind of growth we'd want to commit to, Mr. Patterson. And frankly, the writing's uninspired and cliche." "We have too many name authors whose sales are declining to be interested in a new name in this genre, Mr. Asimov. It's not a growth segment."

Which is why everyone seems totally surprised in the industry when something breaks out, and very few to none can actually predict what will hit big. The very few who can are like the David Geffens and Rick Rubins of the music industry: singular tastes who can spot talent and commercial appeal, and made fortunes backing their own bets. There's simply no room for those kinds of people in big corporations, which is why many of the musical hits have come from small, indie labels that did distribution deals with the big corps - because the big corps understand they don't have the talent and knowledge to know what the kids will want to buy tomorrow.

That's my take, anyway. For what it's worth.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

H.M. Ward said:


> Sitting on the chain link fence just gets your panties torn. True story. I was 5 and wearing a dress. Ouch. Tell her to get off the fence.


Ha! I was slightly older when I got the crotch of my pants caught on the top of a chain link fence. I was so embarrassed (I was climbing with a bunch of boys) not sure how I got unstuck, think I just ripped them.


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## KOwrites (May 23, 2011)

Great post, Holly! I needed to be set straight today and reminded about why I'm doing what I'm doing. You provided all the inspiration I needed today. Thank you.

Based upon your follow-up comments... I hope you're feeling better soon.

KO


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## Maya Cross (May 28, 2012)

vmblack said:


> YA isn't children's. Children's has been very week. YA has not.


YA comes under Children's on the NYT groupings. I did a hunt back through the last six months of charts and there wasn't a single self published title on either the Series or Young Adult lists. I wasn't quite as thorough looking through the generic ebook list since they don't specify genre (I'm not sure how the NYT classifies YA ebooks), but I couldn't see any there either. For a genre with as many blockbusters as that (Divergent, Matched, Hunger Games, Twilight, HP, etc.) it feels like it should have some breakout indie hits too. Fifty Shades spawned a whole army of NYT best selling indies writing similar stuff. What this tells me is that YA is still a genre that has legs with traditional publishing, and that the balance is still skewed their way in terms of having a true hit. I'm not debating that you can make a good living self publishing YA, but I've always had a habit of dreaming big, and to my eyes it feels like trad might still be the way to go in that genre if that's your goal. You just have to keep most of what Holly said in mind.


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

blakebooks said:


> I would also add that trad publishers don't sign bestselling books. Most don't do well at all. It's a rare exception when they do. So all that approval and cachet doesn't translate into anyone being impressed outside of a six block area in Manhattan, for the most part.
> 
> Genre matters. To really break out in my genre, you need to be in airports. I accept that. Would that it were different.
> 
> ...


Great post, sir.

Gesendet mit Galaxy S3 durch Tapatalk


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

blakebooks said:


> I would also add that trad publishers don't sign bestselling books. Most don't do well at all. It's a rare exception when they do. So all that approval and cachet doesn't translate into anyone being impressed outside of a six block area in Manhattan, for the most part.
> 
> Genre matters. To really break out in my genre, you need to be in airports. I accept that. Would that it were different.
> 
> ...


I think this is exactly right about everything.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

H.M. Ward said:


> I will never have an editor who will work with me to develop the book and the follow-ups because she loved it enough to acquire it for her house.
> Bwuahahhaha! I'm sorry, but you're assuming that they know better than you. Dude, they're part of a dying breed, and they're dying b/c they don't want to change. No one jumps up and down and screams, "oooh, ooooh! pick me!" to be the next casualty of the publishing industry.


This comment made me curious. Do you have a personal editor who you love to work with? I ask this because the comment, on the surface, sounded a little derogatory toward editors in general. There are a lot of fantastic freelance editors out there (I work with one of them).

I did submit my novel manuscript to a romance publisher last year at the urging of an editor I'd met. I consider editors just a little more reliable than agents for determining whether something is worthy of being published. Which is to say not much... they all have their opinions and those opinions are likely conflicted based on the salaries provided by their publishers. But editors themselves aren't to blame. Taken out of the mix of publishing, they'd likely be fantastic allies. Their lifeblood depends on writers needing them to develop their work. A professionally trained editor who knows her shit is worth her weight in gold, as far as I'm concerned.


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Ha! I was slightly older when I got the crotch of my pants caught on the top of a chain link fence. I was so embarrassed (I was climbing with a bunch of boys) not sure how I got unstuck, think I just ripped them.


At the risk of changing this from the dangers of traditional publishing to the dangers of fences: I had a similar experience as the two of you, but it was rusted barbed wire and I learned to appreciate the painful tetanus shot from a few years earlier. No clothing torn, though. The barb slipped right under the leg of my shorts.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Maya Cross said:


> YA comes under Children's on the NYT groupings. ...You just have to keep most of what Holly said in mind.


Holly's first series was YA.. 

I think YA is very ripe for the pickings as long as you appeal to a large enough cross section of the population.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

JessePearle said:


> Taken out of the mix of publishing, they'd likely be fantastic allies. Their lifeblood depends on writers needing them to develop their work. A professionally trained editor who knows her [crap] is worth her weight in gold, as far as I'm concerned.


There is no professional training for editors. They're mostly English majors who just happened to get a job in publishing. There is no editorial major or course of study, and what on-the-job training there is has nothing to do with craft.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

vmblack said:


> Holly's first series was YA..
> 
> I think YA is very ripe for the pickings as long as you appeal to a large enough cross section of the population.


Honestly, I think you're both right. YA is ripe for the pickings and Maya is right about the ABCs thing.  I haven't met many YA NYT listers (USAT is slightly different) since the Hocking days. Even then their names are escaping me. I wasn't watching it too closely back then. The thing about it is, I know YAers making high six-figures now and they're not listing (Bella Forrest, CL Stone, Lola St Vil and Morgan Rice being four). You don't have to list to be a steady success.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

vmblack said:


> There is no professional training for editors. They're mostly English majors who just happened to get a job in publishing. There is no editorial major or course of study, and what on-the-job training there is has nothing to do with craft.


Well, there are editorial courses, although not all editors take them. I didn't. I came into editing (I worked full-time in-house for a NY firm) from authoring, academic study and teaching experience in the field I was editing (I wasn't an English major), and freelance editing experience. Based on that, I didn't have to take their editorial exam (they were one of the places I'd already freelanced for), although lower-ranked editors did. We absolutely had on-the-job training on craft, too. I think it really depends on which house you're working for.

But can you, as an indie, find good editors? Heck yes. There are plenty of good freelancers. The trick is in identifying one (since there are also plenty of not-so-hot freelancers), and getting one you can work happily with. There's some competition with money, too. An indie might offer me $1000 or $1500 for a month or two of work; versus $8-$12K for 3-4 months of work from a trad publisher. I like a mix of both, because they're different types of work and variety is a good thing for the brain, but if I needed money, I'd hit up a trad first. Where indie authors win is when they're pleasant and easy to work with. That might sound like a small thing, but it's not. It's huge.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

vmblack said:


> There is no professional training for editors. They're mostly English majors who just happened to get a job in publishing. There is no editorial major or course of study, and what on-the-job training there is has nothing to do with craft.


Maybe not, but that doesn't excuse a writer from getting a second opinion on their work. There are plenty of qualified editors out there who don't work for the big 5. Don't just assume that all editors are hacks. If you're a discerning enough writer you have the skill to recognize a good editor when you find one. Someone who can complement your writing, find your errors, point out your inconsistencies, bitch at you for your lack of continuity. My main point is that you don't need to sign on to a traditional publisher to find that kind of editor. They are out there trying to make a living the same way we are. Skilled editors exist. And it serves all of us to look for them.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

1001nightspress said:


> But can you, as an indie, find good editors? Heck yes. There are plenty of good freelancers.


Sorry.  You're quite right. Everyone needs an editor, meaning someone who can give constructive feedback on both craft and market positioning for a novel.

Most editors at big publishing houses aren't good at this. That is, in fact, only a tiny sliver of their job.

Some are fabulous. Some literally do NO EDITING at all. (Kensington was pretty famous for this.) Others are terrible and don't understand their own genre. And some aggressively edit books to make them sound the same (not naming names, but there are some that are FAMOUS for this) to try to brand the line.

The kind of editor you need as an indie is one that is actually good at editing. Getting a good editor as an indie is EASIER than with the Big 5.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

vmblack said:


> The kind of editor you need as an indie is one that is actually good at editing. Getting a good editor as an indie is EASIER than with the Big 5.


I really think that's true. Because you have a choice! You (author) AND the editor have a choice, and that can lead to much better relationships. My first question to a trad publisher when I'm offered a new project is "Who's the author?" If it's not someone I know, then I want a personality assessment. It isn't that I never take on authors who have a reputation of being difficult, but it makes a difference what that reputation is for. Some authors get it for missing deadlines and being careless; others for being 'too involved' with their books. The former I don't care for, but the latter can be delightful. But at least with freelancing, you have a choice. An author with a publisher doesn't normally have a choice of editors. Maybe if you've done several books with them and sell well and they like you, you could lobby for person A over person B. On your first book? You'll take what you're given. And that could be a great editor, or it could be a crap editor. Or it could be a great editor that you just don't happen to fit well with. When you're doing your own seeking and hiring, you can keep looking till you find the right person.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

StevenCampbell said:


> I THINK you are writing posts on kboards after writing in a word processing program like MS Word or something. In that case, you will find the apostrophes are being translated. Kboards is putting
> 
> don�t
> 
> ...


It's the new board. It doesn't like the stuff from the old board. It looked fine before the switchover. Someone needs to turn on smart quotes.....


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

Great post, Holly.

I go through phases where I wonder if I should approach the trads. again, thinking maybe they've improved since I was first burned by them 20 years ago. Er, no, they haven't, as you've pointed out. I'll stick where I am.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2014)

JessePearle said:


> There are plenty of qualified editors out there who don't work for the big 5. Don't just assume that all editors are hacks. If you're a discerning enough writer you have the skill to recognize a good editor when you find one. Someone who can complement your writing, find your errors, point out your inconsistencies, b*tch at you for your lack of continuity. My main point is that you don't need to sign on to a traditional publisher to find that kind of editor. They are out there trying to make a living the same way we are. Skilled editors exist. And it serves all of us to look for them.


I agree.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2014)

Annette_g said:


> Great post, Holly.
> 
> I go through phases where I wonder if I should approach the trads. again, thinking maybe they've improved since I was first burned by them 20 years ago. Er, no, they haven't, as you've pointed out. I'll stick where I am.


I'm so happy I don't struggle with this. My feet are firmly planted on my new indie route.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

�������������������������������
Ahhh! So many black question marks!! @[email protected]

But seriously... This is a good post. I don't believe print is dead, though. There are still people out there who only read print books. I actually bought a print book a couple weeks ago. The market is definitely still out there. I still think print will reach a wider audience around the world because, let's face it. Not everyone owns an e-reader. While you're out shopping at the mall, you're more likely to see a book on a shelf first before your e-reader.

I've yet to hear a story these days where authors who had print rights have failed.

I feel like it's too easy to just give up your digital rights. You can pretty much get your ebooks in the same outlets that the traditional publishers use very easily and virtually free if you do it yourself. But it's not so easy (or cheap) to get your print books in the same publisher outlets.


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## dave_flora (Jan 26, 2014)

So much great experience here.  Thanks for passing it along!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

vmblack said:


> It's the new board. It doesn't like the stuff from the old board. It looked fine before the switchover. Someone needs to turn on smart quotes.....


It's the character set used by the new forum software. Harvey will get to it. 

Betsy


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

Maya Cross said:


> In most situations I think this is all great advice, but I do think it's a little more complicated than that. I think genre plays a role. If you're writing romances or thrillers, self publishing is a no brainer. It's probably the same with sci-fi at this point. On the flipside, I'm not sure I can think of any breakout indie YA authors. I could very well be wrong since I've been a little out of touch lately, but I can't recall ever seeing any indie titles on the children's page of the NYT list for example. That's not to say that makes trad publishing the right course for that genre, but I think the authors really breaking out with YA are still coming from trad publishing. I feel like some other genres might also be grey areas, like Fantasy, which has certain publishers that are very good in their niche (eg: TOR). Not all audience are migrating equally to new technology either.
> 
> I'm not writing off trad publishing just yet, but obviously the mechanics of it are archaic and everyone should be wary of that.


*Raises meek little hand* YA author. Last two book releases debuted top 50 on Amazon.

I haven't once made NYT or USA Today, but I average over $30k a month the last three months.

But this is just to say you *don't* have to hit any of those lists to be successful.

I also have heard of children's books selling pretty wildly. The interactive ones. Those take a bit more work, with art and what not, but they're fun little pieces. I mention this because I think with time any book could be published for Kindles and what not and earn an income, if there's any sort of market for it. Even tech manuals and cook books.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Holly, thanks for the post, you make good points that needed to be made, especially for newcomers.

Publishing is changing so fast due to self-publishing that trad houses can't keep up, and likely don't want to at this point. They're still relying on people wanting the "honor" of having a contract, even if the contract is killing them. I'm not sure trad pub will ever change, or if it will change enough to save them. I see small presses and indies in our future.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks for a great article  . Have tweeted and emailed links to fellow authors.

The truth is that most books, whether trad or Indie, turn out to be damp squibs  . But with Indie books the author at least gets a chance to dry it out and try to light more fires under it, and with KDP the book is there forever (well, at least until someone decides to do some culling  ). A trad book that fails gets remaindered and is usually lost forever  .


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## Maya Cross (May 28, 2012)

CLStone said:


> *Raises meek little hand* YA author. Last two book releases debuted top 50 on Amazon.
> 
> I haven't once made NYT or USA Today, but I average over $30k a month the last three months.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I didn't mean to imply there weren't any indies making a great living in the YA genre. $30k months are insane. Huge congrats on your success! I just meant that the fact that the really big YA breakouts, ie: the million+ copy sellers, are still trad published, says that the publishing industry still has a decent foothold in that market and could potentially provide something of benefit there. The balance is probably shifting though. It interests me, because I have what I think is a super strong concept for a dystopian YA book that is aimed towards the Divergent/Hunger Games crowd, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth pursuing and what I do with it if I do. Like I said, I tend to have a habit of shooting for the stars, which is probably influencing my perspective. Nonetheless, I'm going to be very interested to see what happens over the next half a year or so.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Maya Cross said:


> Yeah, I didn't mean to imply there weren't any indies making a great living in the YA genre. $30k months are insane. Huge congrats on your success! I just meant that the fact that the really big YA breakouts, ie: the million+ copy sellers, are still trad published, says that the publishing industry still has a decent foothold in that market and could potentially provide something of benefit there. The balance is probably shifting though. It interests me, because I have what I think is a super strong concept for a dystopian YA book that is aimed towards the Divergent/Hunger Games crowd, and I'm trying to decide if it's worth pursuing and what I do with it if I do. Like I said, I tend to have a habit of shooting for the stars, which is probably influencing my perspective. Nonetheless, I'm going to be very interested to see what happens over the next half a year or so.


The ebook adoption rate for 16-17 yos doubled last year.


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

> Me, I'm gonna start Ferro airlines -* it'll be like [owls] *but with hot guys. I'll make it a nonprofit just so I can get home on time. Yeah, I'm gonna have another twitter rant at American soon. I feel it coming...


Owls? HAHAHAHAHA! That was the funniest thing I've seen all day. No Hoot R z on KB. Owls is less edgy, implies other things, like big creepy eyes.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

*The Corn is Green*
*(1945)*
*Principal Cast:* _Bette Davis (Miss Lilly Moffat), John Dall (Morgan Evans), Joan Lorring (Bessie Watty), Nigel Bruce (The Squire), Rhys Williams (Mr. Jones), Rosalind Ivan (Mrs. Watty), Mildred Dunnock (Miss Ronberry)._


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2014)

H.M. Ward said:


> The forum update made my post look wonky. Sorry. Not sure what happened.
> 
> FYI, the haters r like, WE HATE YOU! They're all coming outa the wood work on this one. Someone slammed my grammar! Me! Ha! (Dude, most of my writings are in street talk, not proper long hand drawn from an ink well).
> 
> ...


If I was making the amount of money you make on your books, I could not care less about haters.

Rock on, sister! Let them hate.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Which is why everyone seems totally surprised in the industry when something breaks out, and very few to none can actually predict what will hit big.


Seems very few in or out of the industry can do it.


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## D.L. Shutter (Jul 9, 2011)

> FYI, the haters r like, WE HATE YOU!


Yeah. I stopped by your page the other day and saw your twitter feeds. Wow, you won over some real keepers there.

But you should have known you we're going to get torches and pitchforks over your post. Whenever someone dares to "blaspheme" BigPub, especially an un-vetted indie peasant, they always will. All in all I think your "Bwuhahaha" response to most comments was appropriate. I'll assume that's the sound of you laughing all the way to the bank.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)




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