# Shaxpir: Software for Storytellers



## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey there, everybody! After a few years absence from this incredible forum, I'm back with good news 

When I published my first book, in January 2013, it was one of the most rewarding and fulfilling experiences of my life. Partly because I finished a big project and was really happy with the result. But also partly because I learned so much about myself in the writing process.

Still, though, I was surprised by how disappointed I was with all the word processors on the market. I wanted an app that understood the elements of creative writing, where I could keep all my ideas and notes, with backups stored in the cloud, where I could collaborate with a good editor.

I used Microsoft Word, Google Docs, Scrivener, and various other apps, but nothing on the market really seemed like a serious tool for a professional writer perfecting his craft. I looked everywhere, but I couldn't find tools for writers with as much polish as Photoshop for graphic designers or ProTools for music producers.

So I've been hard at work for the past two years, building the kind of word processor I wanted, designed specifically for fiction fiction authors. It's called Shaxpir. Today, it's finally ready, and I'm here looking for people interested in beta testing it.

You can read a little bit more about my own personal story here, including the story of how I ended up publishing a book in the first place, and you can watch a walkthrough video of the software 



.

This is the best community of authors on the internet, in my experience, and I'd be honored to ask for your feedback. My goal is to build a platform that authors love, so come check it out, and let me know what I can improve. You can sign up for the beta at www.shaxpir.com.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

I liked the look of this right up to getting the email to tell me I would get invited to join the programme in a FEW WEEKS? and that I could speed the process up by recommending Shaxpir to all my friends.<<<<WHAT?  

Why would I recommend something I haven't tried and tested to friends who trust my judgement on these issues.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

This looks great, Benji! I'm excited. I've been wanting writing software that cloud-syncs like Evernote but that I don't have to be on a website to use and that offers the ability to organize notes about the story like Scrivener. I don't actually write in Scrivener (too cluttered for me to focus, but if I turn on the full screen mode, there's a delay when I jump back and forth between to regular mode to look at my notes--it's just been easier to write in Word and alt-tab to Scrivener to check my notes), but I use it extensively for outlining and research notes. Shaxpir looks nice and clean, so I'd give writing in it too a try.


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

I've signed up - love the look of it! Looks clean & intuitive, and with the perfect features. I love your reasons for creating it, too, and I'm definitely excited to try it.

What sort of format does it save in currently, while the export feature is still 'coming soon'? As in, can you put the files in any other format other than openable by Shaxpir itself, or not yet? The export feature is a big one for me, that I use Scrivener for currently, because it makes formatting so easy.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

The only thing I'm concerned about (after watching the video a few times) is whether the notes section is a little too structured. I'll be interested in seeing how my process transfers over to it.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

Pelagios said:


> If you have a Mac, give Ulysses a try. It's like all the best bits of Scrivener but without the clutter. And it works with the cloud.


I've looked at Ulysses before, but it didn't do it for me.


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## Anna_ (Jan 18, 2015)

I've signed up and look forward to the experience. I've never warmed up to Scrivener and am currently wallowing in Word.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Looks kind of like Scrivener but sexier. I'll give it a go. Since I'm about to start a new short novella project it'll be a great chance to try it out.

Like jcthatsme I'll be interested to see the export options. Hopefully they'll be as good as Scrivener.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Z. Rider said:


> The only thing I'm concerned about (after watching the video a few times) is whether the notes section is a little too structured. I'll be interested in seeing how my process transfers over to it.


I hate to keep comparing it to Scivener, but it's inevitable. In Scrivener, the notes are as cluttered as you make them, so hopefully Shaxpir will be too.

I keep my Scrivener fairly clean, and don't use all the features. I find photos for characters quite unnecessary, and only occasionally use photos for places, and that's only if there are some specific details I need. I'm more likely to keep a research folder for an item or procedure that I need to keep right (eg, the operation of a particular gun).

I guess it will be as effective to use as to how each writer organises themselves. I used to just use Word and keep tons of document I had to open and tab between. Looking forward to trying this.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

I have a question for Benji:

Will the beta/final be multiple machine licences like (sorry again) Scrivener? I use one computer at home and another on the train or at work. It would be useful to be able to switch between them.


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## Daniel Dennis (Mar 3, 2014)

I have a few questions. I apologize if they are answered on your website. I haven't had the chance to go looking.

[list type=decimal]
[*]Is this a desktop or web app?
[*]On your note about cloud backup, how does that work? Are you linking the backups to an established cloud service or do you have something set up yourself? My main concern is disaster recovery in the event something happens to the offsite data store.
[/list]


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Daniel - the website says it lives on your desktop but also automatically backs up to the cloud. I'd also like to know about disaster recovery though. I'm sure the latest version is on the desktop too, but will it affect anything else? 

One of the things I like the sound of is that it is cross-platform, so you can wake up and work on your Mac, then (if you have a day job) head to work and pick up on your work computer in your lunch hour. 

However, on that second point, my workplace is pretty strict about software. I managed to get hack Scrivener onto the desktop somehow, but if I can't get Shaxpir on I could do with a web app, like googledocs. Maybe one for the suggestions pile.


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## Daniel Dennis (Mar 3, 2014)

ADDavies said:


> Daniel - the website says it lives on your desktop but also automatically backs up to the cloud. I'd also like to know about disaster recovery though.


That's good to hear. I live in the tornado capital of the world (Moore, Oklahoma). Details of their backup would be nice, especially if they have data redundancy and testing schedule (sorry, the IT auditor in me has too many questions), and the geographical location of the backup would be nice. But if it is anything like Scrivener we may be able to set up a secondary backup to Dropbox or OneDrive (or pick your cloud-based poison). You can't ever have too many redundancies when it comes to important data.


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

jcthatsme said:


> I've signed up - love the look of it! Looks clean & intuitive, and with the perfect features. I love your reasons for creating it, too, and I'm definitely excited to try it.


Thank you so much! I can't wait to hear what you think of it.



jcthatsme said:


> What sort of format does it save in currently, while the export feature is still 'coming soon'? As in, can you put the files in any other format other than openable by Shaxpir itself, or not yet? The export feature is a big one for me, that I use Scrivener for currently, because it makes formatting so easy.


Shaxpir doesn't support the idea of "files" at all. When you write stories and notes within Shaxpir, each of those items becomes an entry in a database on your hard drive, and then we synchronize those database entries back and forth to the cloud.

In my experience, files are a very confusing concept for most people. Keeping files organized is a constant chore, and files are always getting lost or corrupted. Most people don't have backups, or if they do, they don't have a good system for recovering specific data from incremental backups.

For all those reasons, Shaxpir avoids using "files" entirely.

However, Shaxpir will *definitely* support exporting to: MS Word, ePub, Kindle, HTML, and print-ready PDF. Those are really important to me.


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

ADDavies said:


> I have a question for Benji:
> 
> Will the beta/final be multiple machine licences like (sorry again) Scrivener? I use one computer at home and another on the train or at work. It would be useful to be able to switch between them.


The beta version is completely free for three months. At the end of the beta period, the software will have a monthly subscription license. You can use it on as many computers as you like for the same price. We haven't quite nailed down the monthly pricing yet, but it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 per month.


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

Z. Rider said:


> The only thing I'm concerned about (after watching the video a few times) is whether the notes section is a little too structured. I'll be interested in seeing how my process transfers over to it.


I'm very interested in your feedback on this point. I think a good tool should imply a structure and workflow, without being too bossy about it. Plotters and pantsers should both feel at home working in Shaxpir. I hope you'll try working in Shaxpir and let me know how well it adapts to your writing process.


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

Daniel Dennis said:


> That's good to hear. I live in the tornado capital of the world (Moore, Oklahoma). Details of their backup would be nice, especially if they have data redundancy and testing schedule (sorry, the IT auditor in me has too many questions), and the geographical location of the backup would be nice. But if it is anything like Scrivener we may be able to set up a secondary backup to Dropbox or OneDrive (or pick your cloud-based poison). You can't ever have too many redundancies when it comes to important data.


Shaxpir saves all your changes continuously to your local hard drive (encrypted with AES256 encryption) and then periodically (about once every minute) synchronizes those changes (via an SSL encrypted HTTP connection) to our computing cluster in the AWS cloud. We save two copies of everything in our live database, while simultaneously storing multiple redundant copies in Amazon's S3 archival service.

So those are the technical details, but in regular English, what it means is that the entire Shaxpir computing cluster could crash and burn, and we wouldn't permanently lose anything, since we don't do our own long-term storage. Instead, we trust the Amazon cloud computing infrastructure to provide secure redundant storage for all our disaster-recovery data.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Okay, well the software sounds interesting, and I'm looking forward to trying it out -- I think I sent roughly 6-8 people your way to take a look 

But for it to replace scrivener on my PC it will really have to blow me away. $120 a year vs a $35-50 one off fee with free updates year round is a big ask.


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## xoxo (Sep 6, 2013)

I love Scrivener and I love how this looks. Can't wait to try it. 
But, like A. D. Davies, I would much prefer to just buy it. I _really_ dislike monthly fees, they stress me out.


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## Tyler Danann (Nov 1, 2013)

ADDavies said:


> Okay, well the software sounds interesting, and I'm looking forward to trying it out -- I think I sent roughly 6-8 people your way to take a look
> 
> But for it to replace scrivener on my PC it will really have to blow me away. $120 a year vs a $35-50 one off fee with free updates year round is a big ask.


+1 on that. Recurring fees for licenses? No thanks.


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## Daniel Dennis (Mar 3, 2014)

Tyler Danann said:


> +1 on that. Recurring fees for licenses? No thanks.


Yep. I understand the need for a constant data stream but I don't do subscription services either.


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

ADDavies said:


> But for it to replace scrivener on my PC it will really have to blow me away. $120 a year vs a $35-50 one off fee with free updates year round is a big ask.


I signed up for the beta test, but like ADDavies and others, I'm actively looking for an alternative to the Office 365 account I'm currently blowing $120 a year on, which is why I recently started transitioning to Scrivener.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

I was interested, until the subscription got mentioned.

I guess the Hemingwrite looks more intriguing right there as a simple means to constantly back up.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Just spent the last fifteen minutes playing with the software. There doesn't appear to be an option to extract your writing, so I don't think I would be spending more time on this. The only way I can get my words out is to copy and paste. If I can't get the words out of the software, then how am I to share it?

Pros:

simple to use.
clean interface. I really like the way it looks!
ability to link notes, characters, and locations to scene

Cons

no export or import files/words as of now
can't print manuscript
no screenshots to go back to an earlier version of a file. This is important to me.
A subscription service is a dealbreaker for me to. I rather just pay once, even if it's a little pricer.


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## funthebear (Sep 26, 2014)

This looks really cool. Excited to try it!

Is there a way to turn off sync? No offense, but I don't want my writing going onto a small company's servers. Too much risk of your credentials getting hacked or simply leaking.

I already use dropbox and crashplan, and I don't need more redundancy. Are you using sqlite, or something that requires a server? It kind of looks like it's node-webkit or similar, so maybe you're using mongo.

Version history would be cool. I use git (compile in scrivener to mmd), but a writing program with usable versioning would be awesome.


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

benji smith said:


> Thank you so much! I can't wait to hear what you think of it.
> 
> Shaxpir doesn't support the idea of "files" at all. When you write stories and notes within Shaxpir, each of those items becomes an entry in a database on your hard drive, and then we synchronize those database entries back and forth to the cloud.
> 
> ...


Great - sounds like you're on top of it! Really looking forward to try this out.


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

Im on the fence about subscription models of selling software these days. But I'm thinking subscriptions might be the way of the future... It's now the only way to get the Adobe Creative Suite I use for design work. But as much as I dislike the feeling of not 'owning' the software, I need it so I have to suck it up and shell out every month. It's a business expense.

Hopefully Shaxpir delivers something so indispensable that it's worth it. 

And I think it's because of the cloud features that come with everything now. They don't just sell the software and then forget about it - so I'm assuming all that requires ongoing work on their end. I can understand a model where you pay for that in an ongoing way.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Okay, so this isn't a definitive run down (an hour's use), but I'll work with it a little more on Sunday on a full project.

Some items I've heard mentioned are intentionally not available in beta, such the import/export and spell-checker, so I won't touch those. Hoping for a right-click option on a thesaurus (as per MS Word but we'll have to wait and see).

Also note that I currently use Scrivener rather than Word or GoogleDocs. I suspect coming from a simple word processor to Shaxpir will be a far more impressive experience than coming from Scrivener or Ulysses. But here's my take&#8230;

Pros:
Lovely interface. Smooth and elegant. A pleasure to type on. Nicer than Scrivener or Word, etc.
Easy to navigate the chapters and stories.
The consolidated "ideas" section is pretty cool. With reservations - below. 
The "connections" function on the left took me a few minutes to figure out, but I can see this working well, especially if you have a lot of characters and subplots and / or themes. 
Sleek auto-correct (eg, changed realy to really for me) but minor reservations on that.

Cons (a few of these might be specific to ME and how *I* work, so apologies if I am being too bespoke):

*The notes are in a separate section to the chapters*
You have to keep clicking between the chapter you are writing and any notes you have made. If you can link the notes to the chapter so they open down the side, that would help. EG, if I'm in chapter 10 and need to go back to foreshadow something in chapter 3, I'd like to be able to write the note IN THE CHAPTER, so when I go back to edit, the note is right there. No need to remember to refer back to the notes section. That said, the "comments" section works well, and having played with these a bit it could be a decent substitute.

*When adding "scenes" they go into the notes section*
Shouldn't this be transferable to go into the chapters? So one chapter might have several scenes as sub-files but when exporting they gel into one chapter...? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the scenes function. Are they supposed to be like notes for each scene? It took me a while to see they can be added as "connections" but they don't expand in any way, so you still have to click into them to see what's there (see "cork board" suggestion next). Also, we can move chapters into other chapters (creating "sub chapters" I suppose) but the heading is always "chapter" so I wonder how this will work when exporting. Currently, if I have a white-space paragraph break in a chapter, I have two "scenes" and the Scrivener export acknowledges that.

*Little facility for planners* 
A "cork board" or "scene card" function or some such is essential for this type of software. Again, apologies for referring back to Scrivener, but in that programme and other
software like "Write Your Own Novel" and screen writing software like Final Draft and Fade In, I can set up fifty chapters or scenes, and on each chapter/scene, in an optional side bar, is a "note". In here, I will briefly bulletpoint what happens in the chapter. It helps me stay focused, and I can also move scenes and chapters around on a one-screen board.

*Top Level Ideas - can't move the character into the concept* 
Maybe I've misunderstood this function. I'm thinking it's a place to put all your novel/story ideas so you can revisit them. If that's the case, I found it awkward. On the top level workspace, in "ideas" I can add a new concept OR a new character, but I can't move the character into the concept. So if I have an idea for a story and want to start planning the characters, I can't move those characters into the concept. I end up with ONE "ideas" folder for the whole Shaxpir programme with a list of concepts and a separate list of characters and a separate list of themes, etc. I did work out that you can go to your concept, then add the characters as "connections" (which looks and works very nicely), so this might simply be me being used to a certain way of working. Personally, with my current list of story ideas and concepts, I would have two hundred characters, more than a hundred concepts, and have little idea how to cross-reference them. The current functionality might be useful for writers who work exclusively in one or two series, but I think you should be able to drag and drop these characters into a specific concept. Perhaps a "duplicate" or "copy" function could be used so writers can choose which way to use it. Which brings me to:

*Customisability*
This is problem throughout the programme for me. In general, it's smooth and easy to use, but the folders need to be more dynamic and customisable to a) avoid clutter and b) to allow the writer the freedom to organise how they see fit. Having the "connections" idea is quite neat, but you still have to click between the different areas to see what's in there. And hitting back-space to take you to the previous function might be a nice addition.

*No ruler. Your indents are set*
MS Word, GoogleDocs, Scrivener, Kingsoft, Open Office, etc, all have a ruler for a reason. Currently, new chapters and new lines automatically indent by four whole characters and that's the default. However, I want each chapter to commence flush to the left, and each new paragraph to indent only TWO characters. Anything else looks scruffy on my kindle. I know a lot of indies don't worry about that sort of thing, and maybe a lot of readers don't either, but *I* do. Every time I see an indented first paragraph it takes me out of the story because it just looks... wrong. Maybe that's just me having only switched to ereaders a couple of years ago, but I know a lot of readers will be put off by it. Those who ARE put off by it will call it unprofessional, while those who are not put off by it won't care either way, so I'd like the choice. Also, I want to be able to indent the right side. EG, when a character is reading a letter or news article it looks better to indent both the left and right slightly. It doesn't have to be a ruler as such, but I need to be able to control my formatting. For such a small thing it's absolutely a deal-breaker (sorry, I know I'm overly anal about it, but I've not been able to get over it yet).

*Very minor issue*, but when I add a new something to the notes, it jumps to the top instead of the bottom. Most writers think chronologically, so when scene planning, we will generally think 1st, 2nd, 3rd scene. I know, we have exceptions, like I will generally write notes on the finale and conclusions first, plus an key turning points, then fill in the rest, but those are usually chronological. Same with Characters. We usually write about the protagonist first, then either the antagonist or maybe love interest, then the next few characters in descending order of importance, but with Shaxpir it adds new files to the top. It's lazy lazy lazy of me to point this out, but it's worth a thought.

*Auto-correct *for minor typos is fine, as I mentioned above, but will it auto-correct over-capitalization? EG, it doesn't auto correct FRed to Fred or COlumbus to Columbus the way Word does (Scrivener doesn't either, which drives me mad) and I frequently make this mistake.

*The price*
I think I'll post separately on that. It will be worth debating.

Conclusion:
A little early to tell after what is now an hour's use, but my first impression is simple that while it's beautiful and easy to use, if a writer already uses Scrivener, the sexiness is unlikely to warrant the massive increase in what the writer has to pay. If Scrivener ever goes to a subscription model you might attract those users or tempt new ones over from MS Word and GoogleDocs etc, but for many a smoother interface just isn't worth it.

I'm aware a lot of my comments refer to other programmes and I don't want you to think I just want a "smoother Scrivener", so I will reserve final conclusion until after I have used it a while. The way those connections work is neat and I might get used to it over time. Maybe I won't even miss them after a while.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

*PRICING*

IMO the toughest part of selling Shaxpir will be the price/funding model, so separated this aspect from my other feedback.

I understand that, because Shaxpir has so much continuous backup on external cloud servers, there will always be a running cost for the business, BUT there are only so many software subscriptions a person can pay for each month or year.

When Office 365 switched to subscription, people hated it, and still do, but MS have a suite of programmes that people are used to and many people are pretty much brainwashed into thinking it is the gold standard, so they will pay it when buying a new PC, especially when it's on offer the first year. Me, I have Office 2007 and will not upgrade to the subscription. When they eventually stop supporting the old one, I'll use it as long as I have to before switching provider.

Same with Photoshop. I own CS4 after paying ONCE many years ago, and although it is no longer supported it still does everything I need it to. I can get the latest full creative suite for £7.99 per month, which is just over $10, but it offers little in the way of an upgrade. If I ever step up my usage I might need to pay but I won't do that until I absolutely have to.

And back to Scrivener again, which seems to be Shaxpir's nearest rival - I paid ONCE for this. $35 when it was on offer, and I never have to pay again. I have it on three PCs.

While the landscape is certainly shifting, consumers are used to paying a fixed fee for software and then just using it. Changing that mentality is tough. Although Office 365 is fairly successful I haven't met a single person who prefers it to a one-off payment and then owning it for life. Maybe those on a budget prefer the $10 per month or whatever it is, but I'd rather get a 0% credit card and pay it over 6 months and forget about it.

For Shaxpir, you might get well-off, working writers to subscribe, but those of us still working a day job will struggle to justify the $120 per year, or even $60, especially those of us who have succumbed to other subscription based software, ie, if you pay $120 a year for Office 365 and another $120 a year for CS, that's $240 a year already - $360 a year or $30 a month if you add in Shaxpir. There is only so much we can pay out.

Working writers, however, might be able to write it off as tax-deductible. I know I could in the UK, but only if it's my main job. Not sure how it would work in the US, so the subscription cost might be moot in those circumstances. Does a tax write off have to be an "essential" business item?

So in summary, re pricing, as someone who still works a day-job, and who uses Scrivener + Dropbox, I would not subscribe at present. Maybe that will change in a week or two after using it.

BUT - perhaps if you offer a version with a one-off fee _without _cloud backup, say $35-50, you would attract customers after a free trial. You could then allow the one-off customers to upgrade to the subscription with 6 months free to offset their up-front fee, if the benefits are there. I don't know if that impacts your business model badly, but it might be worth thinking about. So far, the biggest negative is definitely the pricing structure.


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## xoxo (Sep 6, 2013)

I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not about 'owning' things. I can handle not owning things (I do not own Netflix). It's about budget, and mine can't accommodate this kind of expense on top of everything else.

I can't afford is $10/month for something I'm likely to use for a _very long time_ (aka years). It's a huge investment, something that needs to be thought of in terms of total cost.


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## Holland d&#039;Haas (Mar 11, 2015)

I refuse to use Scrivener because of how cluttered and ugly it is and have been dying for something like this. I recently listed the features I'd put in a writing program if I made one since I was getting a bit fed up, and this touches up on almost all of them. The subscription is iffy... but being able to start at a $10/monthly subscription would be a lot more comfortable than dishing out $50 for a program upfront for me. I'd suggest an optional installment plan if you do decide against the subscription and/or opt for a high price.

I'm interested in seeing how this program will work in the context of a series and larger universe. Does anyone know if it supports a hierarchy of titles? I see you can do so with chapters, but the video doesn't touch on doing that in the Stories section.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

The subscription has a three month trial period by the looks of it, so if you don't object strongly to subscribing but are on the fence about the software I think that would be ideal. 

I referred to owning software because of budgets. It's cheaper. Paid £30 up front for office 2007 (got a discount through work) in 2008 and it's lasted 8 years. That would be around £1000 at current subscription rates. Even if I'd laid out the full £120 in 2008 it would still be way cheaper.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

> I can get the latest full creative suite for £7.99 per month


Where can you get full CC for that price? Is this a student discount or something?


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

I played around with the beta last night. Without any sort of export function, a little playing around is all I'm going to do-no point in doing actual work that I'm just going to have to copy and past back out, chapter by chapter.

I like that it's clean and streamlined, and I like the connections and comments.

Its shortcomings for my being able to use it:

Like ADDavies, I need to be able to set first line indents on paragraphs, and not just for the writing but for notes because my brain is short-circuiting seeing all those indented paragraphs in my notes.
I see no way to undo heading formatting. Once I've applied a heading style to text, all I can do is change it to another heading style.
When I start a new chapter or note, there's an ellipses in the body area that I have to manually delete-it doesn't disappear on its own when I tab into the body area.
After I create a new chapter or note, the cursor should automatically switch focus to the title of that chapter or note, because every time I do this, I start typing immediately out of habit, and nothing happens. So I have to click into the title area and start typing all over again.
If there's a search/replace capability, I can't find it. 
I need hierarchy. Say my story takes place in various locations within two cities: I need to be able to group the locations within the appropriate city. I'm working on a story that has a motorcycle club in it; I need to be able to group the members into the club. I could make a club sheet and then link the characters with connections, but then I can't see at a glance who belongs to what group; I have to click on the group. On the ideas level, I need to be able to set up projects that I can add characters, scenes, etc., under. Otherwise, as ADDavies said, I would end up with a mess of unrelated characters, themes, etc., which isn't useful
Connections can't be reordered, not the whole connection group and not connections within a connection group, so you have to plan out ahead of time what order you'll set up connections in; otherwise you have to delete everything and start over.
I also agree with ADDavies on the need to be able to see two things at once because having all this information isn't useful to me if I can't access it while what I'm working on is also on the screen. I use Scrivener's split screen for this normally.
And as I had worried, it is too structured for my process. The hierarchy I mentioned would help a lot, as would customizable notes and idea headings, because scene, character, place, concept, theme, thing are great but limiting. I use Libbie Hawker's Take Off Your Pants for outlining, which means every main character gets their own outline. In Scrivener, I have a folder for each character then, which has nothing to do with character details-each folder has a sheet for the character arc, a sheet for the plot headings, a subfolder for the actual outline with sheets for each chapter, and finally a sheet for a more in-depth discussion of the character's flaw. Separate from the folders for those characters, I have a sheet for the complete timeline (so I can keep what's happening when with all the characters straight), and a sheet with one sentence scene breakdowns, so I know what I'm writing every day. (I keep a copy of this last piece in Evernote, just for the convenience of being able to turn it into a todo list, but with the right software, I could keep it in the software and just strikethrough each scene as I complete it.)
I'd like to be able to hide panels so my writing area is bigger for those times when I just want to focus on writing.
As it stands, it has some cool things, but it's not flexible enough to get me away from outlining in Scrivener and writing in Word.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

Oh, one other thing:

Evernote does cloud storage and syncing for me for free, Dropbox accommodates my data needs for cloud storage for free...I'm not sold on $10/month for cloud storage of basically text. I do pay for a CS subscription, but I get a bunch of really powerful software in return for that (and basically ignore the Adobe Cloud because it's not what's useful to me). If Shaxpir were awesome software, I'd pay the $10/month, but at this stage it has too many shortcomings, both in basic capability and the ability to adapt it to my process, to justify $120/year. Maybe down the road it'll work for me, but not as it is now.


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## Michael J Elliott (Dec 18, 2014)

I've signed up for the trial and will be happy to mention it to my author group friends. I'm using scrivener but I'm still going through a learning curve, this looks much simpler but as one of the KBoardrs has mentioned you have to cut and paste and that would annoy me no end.
I'm also not keen on the subscription idea since being on a pension I have to be very careful with the costs associated with my writing. I hope the feedback will help you with the final version.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

The full version will have export capability. I assume all eBook


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Oops...

I assume it will export to all eBook formats and .rtf etc. It'd be weird if it didn't.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Lots of freebies out there...hive...fast pencil..etc..,  lot's of pay ones also..usually around $6 per month.. not sure if this would be better then these?


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## xoxo (Sep 6, 2013)

Ack, A. D. Davies, I wasn't referring to your post about the owning part. I hope you didn't think that.  Regardless, now that I re-read my post, I came across a bit harsh and I didn't mean to. Sorry everyone.

I did get the beta and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Off topic, is anyone else having problems with the quote function? I can't seem to get it to work.


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey, everybody! I just want to say thank you to the people who have given Shaxpir a try so far, and an especially big thank you to those of you who have written up your ideas and impressions.

What you've been playing with so far is just version 1 of the software, and I think your feature suggestions are all *great* ideas. Keep em coming! (But please be sure to copy them to the http://support.shaxpir.com website, so that I can keep track of them.) This is exactly the reason there's a beta program with working authors. I want to hear from you about what's important to you in a professional writer's software suite, so that I can build it for you.

As for pricing, nothing is set in stone yet, and I'd like the software to be available to as many authors as possible, while still financially supporting its ongoing development. It's a tricky balancing act, as I'm sure many of you know who have had to make decisions about pricing for your own ebooks.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

I've uploaded my first chapter to try it out with..


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## JamieDeBree (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm doing the beta too, and I have to say, it's a far more calming interface than the other writing programs I've used (Writer's Cafe & Scrivener, mostly - yWriter's interface is pretty calm). I love the way it looks...very smooth and uncluttered. 

I don't like subscription pricing, but I'd be willing to consider it (it would certainly be a tax write-off for me since I do claim my writing as a business here in the states) if it would give me the ability to work on a desktop/laptop app at home, and then also access my writing via a web-based app (something I don't have to install) at work on my breaks (ala Evernote) so I don't have to install software on my work computer. 

The scenes thing is my big beef at the moment. Scenes are part of chapters, and I write in scenes - one scene at a time, about 4 scenes per chapter. I need to be able to see the individual scenes in each chapter, and move them around if need be (or even just cut one here and there) without a lot of scrolling and fuss. I don't outline except in the barest terms, so I'm often referring back to individual scenes for pieces of information I've forgotten and need to verify as I write. Every piece of writing software I've used so far has given me this ability, so it was a little jarring when creating a new "Scene" in Shaxpir added it into the "Notes" section, and won't let me place it as part of a Chapter. That's something I really have to have - chapters broken into scenes. 

I've added these comments to the web site too, just listing them here for the discussion...


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

JamieDeBree said:


> The scenes thing is my big beef at the moment. Scenes are part of chapters, and I write in scenes - one scene at a time, about 4 scenes per chapter. I need to be able to see the individual scenes in each chapter, and move them around if need be (or even just cut one here and there) without a lot of scrolling and fuss. I don't outline except in the barest terms, so I'm often referring back to individual scenes for pieces of information I've forgotten and need to verify as I write. Every piece of writing software I've used so far has given me this ability, so it was a little jarring when creating a new "Scene" in Shaxpir added it into the "Notes" section, and won't let me place it as part of a Chapter. That's something I really have to have - chapters broken into scenes.


For now, you can try creating a hierarchy of chapters (by drag-and-drop), and just treating the lowest-level chapters as scenes. Right now, the "Scene" content type is intended for notes about a scene, and the "Chapter" content type is intended to be used as the place where you write all your prose. Since you can have chapters within chapters within chapters (and so on), you can still write one scene at a time, but within the context of Shaxpir, those scenes will still be called "chapters".

Hope that helps


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## JamieDeBree (Oct 1, 2010)

benji smith said:


> For now, you can try creating a hierarchy of chapters (by drag-and-drop), and just treating the lowest-level chapters as scenes. Right now, the "Scene" content type is intended for notes about a scene, and the "Chapter" content type is intended to be used as the place where you write all your prose. Since you can have chapters within chapters within chapters (and so on), you can still write one scene at a time, but within the context of Shaxpir, those scenes will still be called "chapters".
> 
> Hope that helps


That works perfectly...as long as I'll be able to turn off the titles for the chapters I've made as Scenes during export, that works just fine. Thank you!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Just an aside to those who find Scrivener too cluttered looking while writing, you can always use "Composition Mode."


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

JamieDeBree said:


> That works perfectly...as long as I'll be able to turn off the titles for the chapters I've made as Scenes during export, that works just fine. Thank you!


Yeah, that's the idea. The chapter titles are just there for you, so that you can quickly glance at the chapter names to navigate around the manuscript.

The export feature will let you choose whether to export chapter titles or just numbers, and it will let you decide how to treat chapters at different levels of depth (for example, level one might use PART NAMES, while level two used CHAPTER NUMBERS, and level three used ASTERISKS-BETWEEN-SCENES.

I'll be especially interested in your feedback, Jamie, when we start updating the app to support export functionality (probably in about 3 - 5 weeks).


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## JamieDeBree (Oct 1, 2010)

Part of the "clutter" that annoys me in other programs is all the icons/images that are all over the tops and sides. And that's not just a Scrivener thing, that's nearly every program I've used (and word processing programs too).  What I'm loving about Shaxpir is that I can still have my whole file/notes/etc "tree" on the left while I'm writing, but it's just plain text, so there aren't a lot of big, colorful icons all over the place (just two small ones - one for home, and one for adding things to the text tree). There's no top bar with huge icons for formatting and such...all that is in a neat, very small row on the bottom that's out of the way, or even hidden if you choose. 

I like having the tree of sections visible while I'm writing - I don't like having to switch to a "writing mode" that is just basically a plain white sheet, and then close that to access my notes. But I'm also a very text-based person, so having "buttons" and pictures for every little thing is annoying to my eye. Shaxpir is very sleek, efficiently organized and text-oriented, which makes for a calm experience right off the bat, without having to switch modes, etc. 

Just my opinion, of course. 

Benji, I'm looking forward to playing with the export modes! Sounds very customizable...


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

ADDavies said:


> *PRICING*
> 
> BUT - perhaps if you offer a version with a one-off fee _without _cloud backup, say $35-50, you would attract customers after a free trial. You could then allow the one-off customers to upgrade to the subscription with 6 months free to offset their up-front fee, if the benefits are there. I don't know if that impacts your business model badly, but it might be worth thinking about. So far, the biggest negative is definitely the pricing structure.


An option like that would be appealing - especially for people, like you say, for whom writing is not their main job or source of steady income yet, or ever.

Or perhaps you buy it outright with a certain amount of included cloud storage, but with the option to pay a monthly fee to up your storage? (I don't know anything about how these things work, but I've just seen cloud storage features working this way elsewhere.)



PiiaBre said:


> I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not about 'owning' things. I can handle not owning things (I do not own Netflix). It's about budget, and mine can't accommodate this kind of expense on top of everything else.
> 
> I can't afford is $10/month for something I'm likely to use for a _very long time_ (aka years). It's a huge investment, something that needs to be thought of in terms of total cost.


Yeah, that's what I meant about not 'owning' the software. You pay and pay and pay - and then it's like any minute, you can no longer have access to everything that's yours, even after paying out so much money. It's the expense and lack of control.


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

On the website it mentions the goal tracking feature. Is that not in the beta version yet, or can I just not find it?


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## Holland d&#039;Haas (Mar 11, 2015)

Just got it. I'm playing around with it now and trying my best to break everything like a good little beta tester  I'll list the more negative things I notice here and then repeat suggestions at support after I've spent some more time with it. (I'm sure we all know the positive stuff already. This is a great little program.) I may make some weird suggestions below, but I think ensuring that the program is functional, clean, and easy to use should be the priority over adding anything fancy.

1) You can't group stories together in series or sub-series (or sub-sub-sub series). You can't even _try _to do it since clicking on a Story brings you to a different menu immediately. Maybe set that as a double click instead (or add an icon after the title to go to the other menu), and on a single click let users drag them around into groupings and hierarchies?

2) There's no hierarchy for locations or characters. This was mentioned by someone else, and it's really important. I need to be able to specify that a bar is in a city is in a state, country, world, dimension, whatever, instead of just having a list of settings. As for characters, having hierarchal groupings would be good.

2.5) Having an optional family tree feature for those grouping by family would be awesome and save time from using an external program, but it's not necessary at all. Just a little something. (I say this assuming it'll be an easy add because of how the program works with the notes and such.)

3) The chapter hierarchies are glitchy. It seems you can make as many as you want, and they eventually are so far to the right you can't even see them. This will probably be an issue if you do that locations hierarchy, too. I'd suggest making the above list collapse to the left when viewing (say, at every 5th level). Or you can just limit it. I don't suggest that.

4) Have a little option to toggle off that fade transition. It gave me a headache when I was quickly clicking between characters and such.

5) There's no way to upload an image on the story's main page. I think it'd be nice to be able to upload the cover (or cover options / references).

6) All images have to be cropped square. What if you have a full-body vertical picture of your character that you need to reference for their gear and such? It's a bit annoying having to click to see the whole thing.

7) This is a feature you probably won't put in, but I'm putting it out there because it'd be really, really awesome: if places get hierarchies, allow people to upload a map above the document. When they add another Place to the notes section, they can put it as a point on the map picture; a click/hover would show the name. Not needing an external program for this would be fabulous. (Again, I mention this with the assumption it shouldn't be an incredibly difficult addition.)

7.5) Similarly, being able to show where characters are on a map for each scene with something like it would be amazing. (Yes, I'm a very visual person.)

 Typing lag. I'm a pretty fast typist and noticed some of the letters were lagging behind by a split second or so. It's not a huge deal, but it's definitely a turn off. Is this because it's saving to the drive and cloud syncing constantly, maybe? That feature really needs to be optional. I prefer manual saving for that reason.

9) Can't upload multiple pictures at once even with ctrl/shift. I was testing to see how many can be uploaded, and it took forever because every single one has to be manually added. It's a small feature, but it'll save the time of those using a lot of pictures.

10) Can't go half screen without it breaking. The comments and images are taking precedence over the actual text field when you resize it horizontally, which means the field is basically inaccessible when made small. I imagine this will make the program somewhat unusable for those with smaller screens. This is a big issue. If the left navigation, characters, and comments are made collapsible, it should solve the issue, but I'd suggest making sure the text field goes above those items anyway when resizing.

11) Memory use. The amount of memory this program uses when it's running almost rivals my Chrome, and that number went up about 30% while I was adding images. It did eventually go back down but is still a bit high for a writing application.

12) Multiple author / contributor support. When adding multiple long names in the author field, it just runs off the page. Wrapping them to different lines when they reach the end would be ideal. Having an area below to specify non-writing contributors (editors, etc) would also be nice.

13) Comments are a bit glitchy, especially if you're pasting text into them. It should clear the formatting of what's being pasted into it and make it look uniform since the formatting is hard to change. It should also stay highlighted when your text cursor is on the linked text and when you're typing into the actual comment regardless of where the mouse cursor is.

14) Formatting in general. The default paragraphs aren't even a style in the list, so unless you Undo it immediately, you can't change from one to the other the way you should. There's no way to create your own styles, either, which means anything that needs custom formatting is out. Being able to create custom styles of standard fonts, sizes, weight, etc. is a must if this is going to export directly to e-book files.

15) The text field sometimes has a hissy fit when you paste more than a sentence of text into them. The whole screen will jump down several paragraphs so the scroll bar still ends on the same bottom text.

16) Image file size. Instead of refusing anything above 10MG, I recommend adding automatic image compression for all images over 1MG. Or even 500KB. There's really no need for reference images to be up to 10,000KB. I had assumed this compression would happen and didn't check my file sizes, so this may be the reason for that memory usage spike I mentioned earlier.

17) If you keep indenting, the text field does eventually widen to a scroll bar, but the images will then sit over any non-indented text. Again, making the images / comments collapsible will solve this issue.

1 Again with the hierarchies, having this for concepts and themes would also be ideal. I.e., maybe "Magic" is one of the big concepts in your world, but you need to break it down by different elements ("Fire", "Water", etc) and specify the characters who use them in the notes. You can't do that unless you make a new main concept for everyone right now.

I'll probably find more as I work with it. These are just the things I noticed and thought of so far. For being in a beta stage, this is actually running very nicely. I'm looking forward to seeing how far this program goes. c:



Monique said:


> Just an aside to those who find Scrivener too cluttered looking while writing, you can always use "Composition Mode."


Hiding everything with composition mode just makes it go from cluttered to non-functional. I still need to access the information it's graying out, just in a way that's clean and non-intrusive.



jcthatsme said:


> On the website it mentions the goal tracking feature. Is that not in the beta version yet, or can I just not find it?


I'm curious about this as well.


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## funthebear (Sep 26, 2014)

Holland d'Haas said:


> 11) Memory use. The amount of memory this program uses when it's running almost rivals my Chrome, and that number went up about 30% while I was adding images. It did eventually go back down but is still a bit high for a writing application.


It uses node-webkit, which basically is chrome. I actually wrote a very similar program for myself using the same thing, but eventually abandoned it because of typing lag and other things. node-webkit is constantly improving though, so this should get better with time.


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## Holland d&#039;Haas (Mar 11, 2015)

funthebear said:


> It uses node-webkit, which basically is chrome. I actually wrote a very similar program for myself using the same thing, but eventually abandoned it because of typing lag and other things. node-webkit is constantly improving though, so this should get better with time.


Thanks for clarifying. That sounds about right; node is notorious for its memory leaks.
Hopefully Benji and 'em will be able to do something about this typing lag. It really makes it hard to focus.


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## delly_xo (Oct 29, 2014)

I've signed up and am very excited to try it! Looks incredibly slick!


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

I'm going to use it a while longer before I start commenting on the main site. I made my initial feedback here basically for a quick discussion. Plus, maybe others have found features I haven't yet. 

One thing I might struggle with - is it not Windows 7 compatible? Or is it only for 64-bit? I have a small 32-bit Windows 7 "Starter" computer that I use on the train. It's dual core with 2GB ram - I thought that would be enough, but maybe it's optimised for 64bit.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Anyone know how this compares to novlr? 

Another beta software program. Maybe I should run them side by side...


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

So far it has a lot more options then Novlr, but is well behind fastpencil and hive world..


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

JamieDeBree said:


> Part of the "clutter" that annoys me in other programs is all the icons/images that are all over the tops and sides. And that's not just a Scrivener thing, that's nearly every program I've used (and word processing programs too). What I'm loving about Shaxpir is that I can still have my whole file/notes/etc "tree" on the left while I'm writing, but it's just plain text, so there aren't a lot of big, colorful icons all over the place (just two small ones - one for home, and one for adding things to the text tree). There's no top bar with huge icons for formatting and such...all that is in a neat, very small row on the bottom that's out of the way, or even hidden if you choose.
> 
> I like having the tree of sections visible while I'm writing - I don't like having to switch to a "writing mode" that is just basically a plain white sheet, and then close that to access my notes. But I'm also a very text-based person, so having "buttons" and pictures for every little thing is annoying to my eye. Shaxpir is very sleek, efficiently organized and text-oriented, which makes for a calm experience right off the bat, without having to switch modes, etc.
> 
> Just my opinion, of course.


Thanks! I'm glad you like it so far.

I really love the idea of *minimalism* in design, which is emphatically different from emptiness. Minimalism is about parsimonious placement of the essentials, so that's what I'm always trying to achieve when I make design decisions in Shaxpir.


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

jcthatsme said:


> On the website it mentions the goal tracking feature. Is that not in the beta version yet, or can I just not find it?


After you've been using the software for a few days, it will start to display of chart of your daily word-count on the HOME screen, which looks like this:










Eventually, I'd like to see even more goal-setting and schedule-making features in Shaxpir. For example, when I wrote my book, I added per-chapter word-count goals to my Google Calendar. So I always knew if I was on-schedule to reach my deadline, or how far I had fallen behind. The daily word-count chart is just the first of these kinds of features, so if you're interested in what kinds of goal-setting features will come next, I'd love to hear your suggestions


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

jcthatsme said:


> An option like that would be appealing - especially for people, like you say, for whom writing is not their main job or source of steady income yet, or ever.
> 
> Or perhaps you buy it outright with a certain amount of included cloud storage, but with the option to pay a monthly fee to up your storage? (I don't know anything about how these things work, but I've just seen cloud storage features working this way elsewhere.)
> 
> Yeah, that's what I meant about not 'owning' the software. You pay and pay and pay - and then it's like any minute, you can no longer have access to everything that's yours, even after paying out so much money. It's the expense and lack of control.


I hear you.

I'm *definitely* open to suggestions of alternate pricing models. But I have to emphasize that the purpose of the subscription fee is not to pay for cloud storage, which costs almost nothing these days. The subscription fee is to pay the salaries of the programmers and graphic designers who build the application and manage the infrastructure.

And unfortunately, paying less than $100 for a piece of standalone software you use every day, and then receiving free updates for life... is just not a viable way to fund a business in the long-term.

I think it's okay if some people look at the price (whatever it ends up being) and say "that doesn't provide me with enough value for the price". That just motivates me to work harder, and keep making the software better and better and better, and eventually I hope it'll be worth the price to you


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## benji smith (Aug 21, 2012)

funthebear said:


> It uses node-webkit, which basically is chrome. I actually wrote a very similar program for myself using the same thing, but eventually abandoned it because of typing lag and other things. node-webkit is constantly improving though, so this should get better with time.


You got it.

Node-webkit has been a godsend for building the beta version of Shaxpir.

But in the long-run, for the reasons you mentioned, I'd prefer to build native applications for Mac, Windows, iOS, and Android (plus a web-app) when Shaxpir reaches a certain threshold of traction.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

thumbs-up !!!

Ok I noticed a couple of things..
It list scenes upside down
I can't find out how to delete a scene...OK found this


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2015)

CASD57 said:


> So far it has a lot more options then Novlr, but is well behind fastpencil and hive world..


I've taken a quick look at all of these now (just uninstalled shaxpir) and to be honest, I'm unimpressed. I think Word or Open Office does a much better job of it. I use Jutoh and Writer's Cafe and whilst neither of them are perfect, at least I can write without being restricted by someone else's idea of how I should structure and layout my stories.

They all 'look' sexy, but it's how they work in a fourteen hour day, seven day week environment that counts. I'm just a bit suspicious of how they will work long term and how much they will end up costing. Anyway, I'm sorry for the negative feedback, but this program is definitely not for me.


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