# Konrath leaves KU



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Sorry if this has already been posted.

https://ebookbargainsuk.wordpress.com/2014/12/21/exodus-konrath-joins-the-big-hitters-leaving-kindle-unlimited-as-amazon-continues-to-punish-indies-for-their-loyalty/

Exodus! Konrath Joins The Big-Hitters Leaving Kindle Unlimited As Amazon Continues To Punish Indies For Their Loyalty.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't care who does what. People need to do what's best for them. Leave everyone else out of your decision.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Some familiar KBoarders mentioned in the blog  . Awaiting replies in defence.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Methinks this could be a long thread... I'm guessing twenty pages plus. 

Place your bets now and grab some popcorn.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

We're going to leave this thread open for the time being as it is industry news and thus, suitable for discussion here.  It is being closely watched. Please bear in mind that Joe is a member here under his penname J.A. Kilburn.  

Also that name calling in general is not allowed here on KBoards.  Posts that do so will be and have been edited.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

*yawn* I hope he does well, wherever he ends up.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I put in a reply, but it's awaiting moderation. KU has a place, and we have zero say. What you can do is pull out the books it makes no sense to be in there with.

I love having my 99 cent books in. I put links to the rest of my Ammy books in the back. I can promote my "free" book in KU/Prime while still making sales on it, plus each book in it can work as free advertising for my full length ones that aren't in it.

Again indies seem to have the memory of a goldfish. Let me refresh your memory: KU is in no way about ebooks,  it's about capturing emails and data on everyone and what they purchase to predict what they can sell them next.


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

> Konrath says he's taking all (not some, all) his titles out "after this period". The mixed tense suggests he's pulling them when the current 90 day KDP Select runs finishes.
> 
> But why wait? *Amazon lets you opt out of KU at any time.*


Um, what?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh just means his fans have to buy rather than borrow.  
Smart move on his part in a business sense.
Repeating do what is best for your business. 
What works for that evil, scary, gave me nightmares author may not be best for you.  (Mods this is a compliment to his horror)

Part of that article made no sense..


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

While everyone has to make their own decision, I don't think that prevents a discussion here. Typically discussions here help folks make their individual decisions. My personal take is the KU program is great for readers but not so much for authors. I see it is a way for Amazon to drive down prices. Neither Andy book is in Select. I wanted the first one free and as widely available as possible and the second costs $3.99 and is also as widely available as possible. I can't see the benefit of being in Select anymore. Maybe someone can enlighten me.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Kindle Unlimited is NOT FOR the mega-sellers. It never was. It's a service for readers to find new books to read. Okay. Most of them have ALREADY read the best-seller, regular suspects on the top 100 of the Paid Kindle store year in and year out. 

All of these "KU affected my sales . . ." arguments don't sway me in the least because without numbers, and history, who even knows what specific variable affected sales the most? 

For example, I am "new" this year to the top #20,000 in the Paid Kindle store author. Someone had to move out to make room for me to hang out there. Now was it an author who is still publishing that was shuffled out, or one that stopped? Who knows. But that phenomenon on a larger scale is what we're talking about. Did Author XYZ see a cut in sales because of KU, or was it new authors that started bringing new titles readers wanted more, or did the author rest on the laurels so to speak and keep writing the same book over and over again, etc.etc.

If book selling was as EASY as identifying just ONE variable as causing or not causing sales, everyone would sell thousands of books a month. But it's not.

Here's the history we all don't realize. Many, many big names sold mind-boggling numbers of books . . . for 99 cents. A friend of mine received a plaque from Amazon when she sold her 100,000 copy, an AMAZING feat. Big difference though when almost all of those were at 99 cents for .35 each versus $2.99 and making $2 a book. Almost makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it, making $35,000 versus $200,000? 

And now, the market is different again. KU and other subscription services are here. Many authors who felt like they had "made it" are suddenly finding their most recent releases that are a similar formula as what worked before aren't doing well. And it's a LOT easier to blame outside factors than acknowledging what publishers have known all along : readers' tastes change, what was BIG one year is just good the following year and potentially dismal the year after. 

People who weren't making money before are making money. People who were making money before are sometimes making less, sometimes not. 

I am pulling out of KU and KDP Select in January on because the numbers support that for me. Despite adding more books into the program my overall borrows have gone down. I think I can make the same amount of money or more by putting my books A KING status (Amazon, Kobo, ibooks, Nook, Google). Who knows if it will work or not, I will be sure to report my numbers.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

I really disliked the tone of this article. Not only did they get something BIG factually wrong (you can't just exit KU whenever), they bashed both Joe and Hugh. Poorly written and not very helpful IMO.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I think it's great for placing 99 cent works (or whatever VAT raises that price to). Especially if they keep the payout over seventy cents. Put links to all your other Ammy books in the back.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Deke said:


> While everyone has to make their own decision, I don't think that prevents a discussion here. Typically discussions here help folks make their individual decisions. My personal take is the KU program is great for readers but not so much for authors. I see it is a way for Amazon to drive down prices. Neither Andy book is in Select. I wanted the first one free and as widely available as possible and the second costs $3.99 and is also as widely available as possible. I can't see the benefit of being in Select anymore. Maybe someone can enlighten me.


I do great in Select. I'm picking up new fans left and right. More and more people are getting eyes on my books. My sales are actually going up (not including the 10,000 borrows I'm getting a month) and I just had my biggest sales month ever. KU isn't for everyone - and I won't stay forever - but I'm enjoying the ride now.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

While I wish KU in its current form into the cornfield, this blogger and his partner are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Sigh, Monique....

Betsy


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

That was the nicest way I could say it!


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Monique said:


> While I wish KU in its current form into the cornfield, this blogger and his partner [EDIT] *got basic facts about KU wrong.*


Better, Betsy?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Evan of the R. said:


> Better, Betsy?


LOL, that too. I suppose he could have been referring to the Special Ones.


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## Jj2011 (Oct 1, 2014)

I suspect there is another reason joe is leaving ku and it has to do with his upcoming enterprise. If u have been reading his blog u probably know what it is. Being in select might complicate this so he's taking his books out as a result.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> And now, the market is different again. KU and other subscription services are here. Many authors who felt like they had "made it" are suddenly finding their most recent releases that are a similar formula as what worked before aren't doing well. And it's a LOT easier to blame outside factors than acknowledging what publishers have known all along : readers' tastes change, what was BIG one year is just good the following year and potentially dismal the year after.
> 
> People who weren't making money before are making money. People who were making money before are sometimes making less, sometimes not.


Sports figures, actors and actresses, run into this same problem. You're only going to be "hot" so long, and with the internet, this "hotness" can turn on a dime. 
My hubby mentioned Jerry Seinfeld the other day to our daughter. She has no clue who he is/was and couldn't care less. Hubby forgets Seinfeld show hasn't been relevant for twenty years. But to my generation the show about "nothing," the "soup nazi," the "festivus pole" etc., still makes us laugh.

If you are having a year of phenomenal sales, bank a lot. Bank enough until you can live off the interest. Your world could change on a dime. It does for almost everyone at some point in their life.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Love it or hate it, it's fair to say that KU has created divisions within the 'writing community.'

For that reason alone I hope it goes away soon.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

I agree with the comment about 70% "royalty" vs 30% commission charged by Amazon. I've always thought that, even though their sales statements to me say otherwise . Many other big names from this forum have/are coming off KU. I don't blame them; from their accounts, KU isn't working for them.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around KU and whether it is best for me. I'm thinking KU will probably prove to be a benefit for me since I last released a book nearly a year ago. I think readers will want to borrow a book from a rather unknown author rather than purchase it. I think the free days will also allow me to garner more reviews in a shorter period. 

Alas, I'm not a titan on Amazon.


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

Take note of his ranking today, then go back to it a couple of months after his term ends and he has pulled out. Should be interesting.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> ... I think I can make the same amount of money or more by putting my books A KING status (Amazon, Kobo, ibooks, Nook, Google)..


A KING status. Stealing that.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2014)

Just some thoughts from a blogger who writes about books (free & Deals)

1) More and more authors are telling me that putting books in A KING status is much better for them (Amazon Kobo iBooks Nook Google).

2) There is a lot of demand for other ebook stores. I'm conditioned much like most people on this forum to think Kindle first. However, most iUsers want Apple first and many Android users want Google Books first. Internationally, Kobo is very big in some countries.

3) KU has pros and cons for authors at different stages of building their brand.

For completely new authors - any way to find readers is good.
For somewhat established authors - it's good to have one or two books there to create awareness. However, the way the market is changing, it'll soon be financially unwise to give anyone exclusivity.
For established authors - it's complete madness to be in KU unless it's just a few books.

Just my opinion.

4) Amazon's Tablet is a distant third after iPads and Android Tablets.
Kindle Fire Phone didn't sell well.
Amazon isn't putting much effort into eInk Kindle development.

That means, no matter what magic Amazon does, more and more readers will have iDevices and Android devices and they'll move away from Kindle Store.

If we say Amazon has between 55% and 65% market share in ebooks right now, the fact that it has 5% or less market share in tablets and phones means that it's ebook market share will keep going down.

*******

5) In any ecosystem each player tries to maximize profits and control. So

Readers
Distributors
Book Stores
Authors
Publishers
etc.

are all trying to take 90% of the profits and 100% of the control.

It's up to each author to decide. Many authors make the mistake of thinking someone is FOR THEM when actually it's just that interests are mutually aligned. It'd be folly to assume that some corporation cares very much about your individual interests. You might favor Publishers when you're a published author but switch to favoring a platform if it starts giving you 90% royalties and delivers good sales. At either point of time, thinking the Publisher is your Best Friend or the Platform is your Brother would be a mistake.

The one thing I will point out is that there are very very few examples of a market dominated by a single company that treats the other ecosystem inhabitants well. All things being equal you should always take actions that lead to a healthy competitive environment with no single dominant force that holds control over you.


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## abishop (May 22, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Kindle Unlimited is NOT FOR the mega-sellers. It never was. It's a service for readers to find new books to read. Okay. Most of them have ALREADY read the best-seller, regular suspects on the top 100 of the Paid Kindle store year in and year out.


The video that's embedded at the top of the KU page advertises the program primarily using major novels by famous authors (Harry Potter, etc.) The first book I see when I visit the KU page is from The Hunger Games. If it's not intended as a program for "mega-sellers" they've chosen a very bizarre way to market it.



> Did Author XYZ see a cut in sales because of KU, or was it new authors that started bringing new titles readers wanted more, or did the author rest on the laurels so to speak and keep writing the same book over and over again, etc.etc.


A fair number of popular authors saw their revenues fall in a way that they had not seen historically at exactly the moment KU came out. They write for different audiences in different genres, and yet their experiences since KU launched have turned out to be remarkably similar. Sure, maybe a large number of unrelated authors just _happened_ to see huge drops that are unrelated to KU that just _happen_ to coincide with KU's launch, but the seems incredibly unlikely.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

abishop said:


> The video that's embedded at the top of the KU page advertises the program primarily using major novels by famous authors (Harry Potter, etc.) The first book I see when I visit the KU page is from The Hunger Games. If it's not intended as a program for "mega-sellers" they've chosen a very bizarre way to market it.


Mega-selling indie authors is what she means. Trade published books are paid quite differently for KU/KOLL borrows.


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

This guy's incessant bashing & obvious hatred of amazon is so tiresome that I unsubscribed to his newsletter a long time ago.

He says Joe & Hugh should stop pointing out the exploitation of writers by trad-pub and Author Solutions. 
No, they shouldn't. Because writers continue to be reeled in by these corrupt entities every day. Joe & Hugh
and Barry Eisler are to be commended, not condemned, for all the work that they have put in (&, as we all know, it takes a great deal of effort & time to post data and rebuttals.)

We support anyone whose efforts are able to alert any writer to the dangers of going with trad-pub or some scam outfit like Author Solutions. People have been taken advantage of by vanity presses for decades––and it is only now through the Web that we are able to reach more new and/or up-and-coming writers than ever and make them aware to stay clear of these traps.

Thank you, Jan, for the heads up.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Except A Bishop, we're not hearing from ALL authors.

Just because one group is louder doesn't make it the majority. Since KU, we've seen more books that are IN KU in the best-seller lists for genres across the board. Someone is making money. It's just not the people who WERE making money, and they're going to complain. And that's their right. I would complain too if I was in their situation.

Everyone needs to look at THEIR numbers. In August, it made no sense for me to release wide. I banked $1,000+ in borrows alone on two books and it is very unlikely those two titles would have made that much in other venues (A KING). Now I have almost 8 titles to distribute wide. NOW, to make $1000 in other venues, each book only need to make $125 in a month across all FOUR other venues. Now, it's potentially doable. Add into that that I haven't had a $1,000 month in borrrows since August and it's really doable. As of last month's numbers, I only need to make $500 in the outside venues. 

Another author in a group I'm in had 66% of her income come from borrows. We write in the same genre, but she writes novels. Now, saying that number sounds HUGE (66%) until you find out she makes only about 25% a month of what I make. Now, it's not so big. 

This is why when authors say "My sales have cut 50%!" I'm nonplussed until we're talking actual dollar amounts. And even authors with really well known series etc. there are other variables that could be looked at in just about every case. The point is large numbers of people losing money in KU is NOT a problem unless other authors aren't also making money. This is where it's a "zero sum" game because we are all pulling from the same pool of money "the borrow money." And trying to pull trends at all on a program that is less than 6 months old is troubling as well.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

YodaRead said:


> I don't care who does what. People need to do what's best for them. Leave everyone else out of your decision.


Amen


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Quote:

But a safe bet this news will make a lot more indie authors question the value of being in both Kindle Unlimited, and in KDP Select.

Blogger seems confused. If you are in Select you are in KU.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I've just read the blog, and seriously, even this non-author can tell there's so much wrong with that blog post it doesn't seem like it's worth reading....  

Is there any reason why anyone should care about this blogger?  

Betsy


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

Will C. Brown said:


> A KING status. Stealing that.


Yes, I like that too. I wonder if someone could make a badge for that...
I was getting a bit of a headache reading that article. Not only did they get some important facts wrong (no, you can't just take your books out of KU whenever you want, Amazon only let authors do that those first few weeks Kindle Unlimited was rolled out in the US), but they complained about those very authors whose blogs are informative about topics that truly are relevant to indie authors. If all they want those authors to do from here on out is bash Kindle Unlimited and not talk about Author Solutions and traditional publishing, then they are missing the point.
I think in 2015, Kindle Unlimited will become something of a place where readers can use it to discover new authors and their works, but I do not believe it will continue to lure in readers intent on borrowing bestsellers.
It will be interesting to see how many people purchased the "6 months of KU with a Kindle thrown in" deal over this holiday season.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I've just read the blog, and seriously, even this non-author can tell there's so much wrong with that blog post it doesn't seem like it's worth reading....
> 
> Is there any reason why anyone should care about this blogger?
> 
> Betsy


Because they took the 2 biggies names in vain. lol


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, I was wondering if he/she is well known.  I have no idea.

Betsy


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Well, I was wondering if he/she is well known. I have no idea.
> 
> Betsy











It wasn't me!


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

Konrath is the poster child for the writer who should not be in KU. I've said this a number of times. If you are a strong seller but not selling strong enough to negotiate full royalties (like Suzanne Collins and J.K. Rowlling) then KU is just not a good idea. This should not be a surprise to anyone and shouldn't even be news. I can see Hugh leaving KU soon, as well. If he stays my guess is it will be due to a negotiated move or a for a well thought out tactical reason... like putting new books in there and pulling them after 90 days. 

This does not mean that KU is useless or evil or not viable. It means that it is a place for discovering new and shorter works. The megasellers that are in there? They are the bait that lures subscribers in. 

Again, if you are a strong seller and the all-star money doesn't cover the lost revenue from sales, and you don't have a tactical reason for being there, then Get out. KU is just not designed for the you.


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## Talwyn (Nov 13, 2014)

Jj2011 said:


> I suspect there is another reason joe is leaving ku and it has to do with his upcoming enterprise. If u have been reading his blog u probably know what it is. Being in select might complicate this so he's taking his books out as a result.


Scans Konrath's blog to figure this out.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

jakedfw said:


> This does not mean that KU is useless or evil or not viable.


And yet it still is all those things.

It's an 'exposure' scam lie Author Solutions, but with added Stockholm Syndrome. Take a huge pay cut per unit for a lottery ticket and a thumb on the scales in your favor as long as you promise to ignore the diminishing returns.

It's not viable because even paying you far too little, they're still paying too much vs. what they're charging. So they slowly ratchet down that pay out while essentially using the algorhythms to rock the old school protection racket shtick on us. "That's a mighty fine rank your books has. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it..."

Even the people who are having their salad days aren't going to have them long term because that's not the point. Us making money isn't the plan. Us being cheap bait on sweatshop wages producing content to get butts in the chair is where it's going, so I suggest good investments and high yield savings accounts for anyone who isn't suffering yet from the scam.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

LisaGrace said:


> KU is in no way about ebooks, it's about capturing emails and data on everyone and what they purchase to predict what they can sell them next.


Exactly!


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## jegarlick (Jun 23, 2013)

Essentially...we are training readers--why buy the cow if you can drink the milk for free...through participating in KU and other vehicles. Might be a heyday right now for some authors but in the long run...what are we telling/training readers? (we all need to think about that...*eh hem* Napster *Cough*)


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

jegarlick said:


> Essentially...we are training readers--why buy the cow if you can drink the milk for free...through participating in KU and other vehicles. Might be a heyday right now for some authors but in the long run...what are we telling/training readers? (we all need to think about that...*eh hem* Napster *Cough*)


Except artists didn't sign up for Napster, they never got paid for their work on Napster, and people illegally traded it on Napster in violation of numerous laws. How is people voluntarily putting their work in a program with the understanding that borrows fluctuate the same as Napster?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

jegarlick said:


> Essentially...we are training readers--why buy the cow if you can drink the milk for free...through participating in KU and other vehicles. Might be a heyday right now for some authors but in the long run...what are we telling/training readers? (we all need to think about that...*eh hem* Napster *Cough*)


Um most readers have been reading FREE since they were big enough to grab a book off a shelf. It is called the LIBRARY. KU is not getting books free. Readers pay $ 10 a month. If you think $10 = free, I have some investments for you.


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

I launched a brand new pen name recently in KU. I obviously don't know how much I'll make per borrow in December, but even if 1 borrow=$1, I estimate that I'm going to make ~$10,000 this December.  I did no promotions for that pen name, so it took off mostly thanks to KU borrows. I think for new authors KU is an excellent way to get fans. I already got ~150 newsletter subscribers just in a few weeks.
KU is not evil. It's just not for everyone.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Except A Bishop, we're not hearing from ALL authors.
> 
> Just because one group is louder doesn't make it the majority. Since KU, we've seen more books that are IN KU in the best-seller lists for genres across the board. Someone is making money. It's just not the people who WERE making money, and they're going to complain. And that's their right. I would complain too if I was in their situation.
> 
> ...


We do share numbers, by the dozens, big and mid-list and smaller sellers, but not in this forum. There are some authors doing very well with KU too and they too shared their numbers in the forum and that's how I know the majority of big-selling indie authors who are or have pulled out. I'm not in a position to name them but it was eye-opening to see how much lower their income has been these past few months. Again, everyone does what is good for them and no one is telling others to follow his or her footsteps, but many have chosen not to renewed or have canceled their KU contract.

If you're making $10,000 in borrows, then obviously, you should stay. There is no need to defend your position because you're doing great. And congrats!


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

jegarlick said:


> Essentially...we are training readers--why buy the cow if you can drink the milk for free...through participating in KU and other vehicles. Might be a heyday right now for some authors but in the long run...what are we telling/training readers? (we all need to think about that...*eh hem* Napster *Cough*)


Reader here. Free is free, KU is not free. It costs $10 a month, $120 a year. I don't know why I keep reading about KU books being free. They are not. There is no training of readers. We readers have been able to get free books long before KU was even a blimp on the radar. I was a member of KU from the week it was introduced until the end of November. I still got free books and I still got paid books. Its never a either or with most readers. We are pretty eclectic with how we get our books. But I never once thought KU was free considering my credit card showed me a 9.99 charge each month. I am still subscribing to scribd and for a while I did both, so $19 a month to borrow books. Books I never own.

Nothing do do with Napster. I pay, I get to borrow. I pay money to read, nothing free. Free to me is $0 money coming out of my bank account.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

eBook Bargains UK is a blog connected to a minor BookBub type service. The blogger is normally very critical of Amazon and the Amazon fan boys, but that blog post and the comment on Joe Konrath's blog is so over the top I am strongly considering pulling out of the email list. Many authors keep their names in the news by being strong advocates of Amazon, this guy (Mark I think is his name) is doing the opposite: in a crowded market of Amazon fan boys he is being anti-Amazon which gains his subscription list a lot of money.

Joe leaving Select is big news. When I first joined kboards last Spring there was a lot of claims about all the big sellers being in Select, so I went to the kboards top sellers list went through them all and only Joe from the first page was in Select. So if KU is driving out their last heavy hitter then that is a mis-fire. Mark (if that is his name) is also out of date as Hugh Howey has already come out against KU on the political grounds that he finds the All Stars scheme divisive. 
http://www.hughhowey.com/october-2014-author-earnings-report/

Yes I'm now off to cancel my eBook Bargains UK email subscription.

ETA: I left it and it asked for a reason so I told them that I signed up because of their blog and I was resigned from the service because of the blog's article on Joe and Hugh being over the top.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

As I recall, the major authors and publishers do not have to be in Select to be in KU, and they can opt in and out of KU whenever they want. 500-lb gorillas and all. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I predicted KU a while back, and the experts said I was wrong arguing rightfully that it would be a great disservice to authors. Like Amazon cares.

My prediction now is that, based on so many mainstream authors pulling out of Select to avoid KU, Amazon will disassociate the two programs and allow authors to opt into KU perhaps even with better terms.

Select is a way for Amazon to eliminate the competition by making those participant books exclusive. A non-exclusive KU will reduce competition by making the books essentially free for KU-enrolled readers. When that happens, the others--Apple, Nook, Kobo, etc.--will introduce subscription models.

_"You can always tell who the pioneers are. They're the ones with the arrows in their backs."_


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## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

Mike McIntyre said:


> Quote:
> 
> But a safe bet this news will make a lot more indie authors question the value of being in both Kindle Unlimited, and in KDP Select.
> 
> Blogger seems confused. If you are in Select you are in KU.


But if you're in KU you aren't necessarily in Select.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Does anybody know how popular KU is, I'm a heavy reader but just wasn't interested. Mainly because I would feel like I was wasting money everytime I bought a book that wasn't in KU


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Chad Winters said:


> Does anybody know how popular KU is, I'm a heavy reader but just wasn't interested. Mainly because I would feel like I was wasting money everytime I bought a book that wasn't in KU


I have looked at and I can't see spending $10 a month or even $5 a month on it. It just doesn't seem worth the time, effort and money.


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## Davout73 (Feb 20, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> I have looked at and I can't see spending $10 a month or even $5 a month on it. It just doesn't seem worth the time, effort and money.


If I were on a limited budget, I could see spending $10 a month, especially if a lot of the books in my favorite genres were not available at the library. But then I am not on Scribd or Oyster either. YMMV

Dav


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I have thousands of free books that I found on Amazon


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

rosclarke said:


> But if you're in KU you aren't necessarily in Select.


Unless you are one of the special ones, you are.


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

Monique said:


> Unless you are one of the special ones, you are.


And that's the rub that keeps me out of Select and KU and sticking with A KING. Not sure if it's paying off, but in the long run, it's the best choice for me.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Sorry if this has already been posted.
> 
> https://ebookbargainsuk.wordpress.com/2014/12/21/exodus-konrath-joins-the-big-hitters-leaving-kindle-unlimited-as-amazon-continues-to-punish-indies-for-their-loyalty/
> 
> Exodus! Konrath Joins The Big-Hitters Leaving Kindle Unlimited As Amazon Continues To Punish Indies For Their Loyalty.


Sorry but I find it an amazingly silly blog post which states that it is somehow hypocritical to for Konrath to criticise both Macmillan and Amazon, demanding he hate one or the other. His grudge against Konrath is pretty obvious in his comments. As far as Konrath leaving KU, I'm sure he'll make the decision that he considers right for him, just like the rest of us.


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm in Scribd and it is wonderful both as an author and a reader. What happens is that if you market through Smashwords or D2D you get a choice of having your books put on Scribd's library function. I don't know if the incentive program still runs, but back when Smashwords started the arrangement with Scribd, every writer who agreed received a free year's membership to Scribd. For every month I've had my (free) eight or nine dollar membership, I've read books to the value of many hundreds of dollars. Currently I'm reading my way through Will Durant's History of Civilization, umpteen volumes of about 2400 pages each, a hefty investment even in paperback. 

I wouldn't in a million years consider Kindle Unlimited either as a writer or a reader. I'm surprized that a savvy guy like Konrath made the mistake of going into it in the first place.

***

As for the original point of this thread, Konrath didn't go far enough. He might find, if he left Amazon altogether, that his readers follow him to Apple and the other vendors, where in the more salubrious surroundings one can raise prices and soon make the same nett income. But I imagine Konrath is restrained by his earlier reckless statements approving unconditionally of Amazon on political grounds (which were never true anyway), in short by fear of being called a hypocrite.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

I like the program as a reader and as an author. However just as every book I want to read is not included in the KU program, every book I write isn't either. 

KU is a just another author tool in the box. Amazon doesn't require catalog exclusivity in order to participate so, like every tool in the box, one can decide it is is a tool they like or don't like, chose if they are going to use it or not use it at all, what type of situations they believe KU is a good tool for, and which ones it is not.  Personally I use and will use KU for some books and don't and won't for others. Likewise I do and will continue to use KU for some pen names while there are others I haven't and won't consider it for. Considering KU is situational dependent for me, it's going to be situational for a lot of people. 

Regardless of the amount of ad-hominem one tosses in, demanding a binary choice from individuals facing multiple unique situations should and will fail.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2014)

wtvr said:


> *yawn* I hope he does well, wherever he ends up.


+1


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## Talwyn (Nov 13, 2014)

darkline said:


> I launched a brand new pen name recently in KU. I obviously don't know how much I'll make per borrow in December, but even if 1 borrow=$1, I estimate that I'm going to make ~$10,000 this December. I did no promotions for that pen name, so it took off mostly thanks to KU borrows. I think for new authors KU is an excellent way to get fans. I already got ~150 newsletter subscribers just in a few weeks.
> KU is not evil. It's just not for everyone.


Nice! Congrats!!


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## Felix R. Savage (Mar 3, 2011)

Al Stevens said:


> My prediction now is that, based on so many mainstream authors pulling out of Select to avoid KU, Amazon will disassociate the two programs and allow authors to opt into KU perhaps even with better terms.
> 
> Select is a way for Amazon to eliminate the competition by making those participant books exclusive. A non-exclusive KU will reduce competition by making the books essentially free for KU-enrolled readers. When that happens, the others--Apple, Nook, Kobo, etc.--will introduce subscription models.


This.


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## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

Andre Jute said:


> I'm in Scribd and it is wonderful both as an author and a reader. What happens is that if you market through Smashwords or D2D you get a choice of having your books put on Scribd's library function. I don't know if the incentive program still runs, but back when Smashwords started the arrangement with Scribd, every writer who agreed received a free year's membership to Scribd. For every month I've had my (free) eight or nine dollar membership, I've read books to the value of many hundreds of dollars. Currently I'm reading my way through Will Durant's History of Civilization, umpteen volumes of about 2400 pages each, a hefty investment even in paperback.
> 
> I wouldn't in a million years consider Kindle Unlimited either as a writer or a reader. I'm surprized that a savvy guy like Konrath made the mistake of going into it in the first place.
> 
> ...


Why would he have to leave Amazon and take his readers to other stores to be able to raise prices? Or do you mean raise them past 9.99?


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

If scribd and Oyster can pay full royalties for downloads why can't Amazon? They still get the emails and buying stats they want either way. The way they currently have KU set up seems to me to be an awesome setup for those who write short fiction as they actually make more money in KU than sales royalties out of KU.

If Amazon wants a "share the money pot" model then I think they should scale the amount by length, of course that would open up the program to scammers who would pad for the payoff. The simplest solution would be to separate KU from Select. If I could sell books at other outlets with my books in KU I probably would. As is, I am taking my books out of Select and going wide. People who write 75k, 100k and over just can't afford the KU pay cut. I can see the current KU model eventually only appealing to short fiction writers and those who have longer books with huge amounts of borrows. It also seems to me that the current KU model will end up full of mostly short fiction and maybe cheaply priced longer fiction (or non-fiction as it were.) Books priced 2.99 take nearly a dollar per book hit when someone borrows rather then buys. 3.99 plus priced books take over a dollar a borrow hit and beyond! 

However, we (or most of us)  have zero say in the matter so it doesn't really pay any of us to keep debating it. Amazon might change it and they might not. Best thing we indies can do now is adjust our business models to the new way of doing business and continue to innovate new ways to succeed with it.


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## mjstorm (Feb 23, 2013)

darkline said:


> I launched a brand new pen name recently in KU. I obviously don't know how much I'll make per borrow in December, but even if 1 borrow=$1, I estimate that I'm going to make ~$10,000 this December. I did no promotions for that pen name, so it took off mostly thanks to KU borrows. I think for new authors KU is an excellent way to get fans. I already got ~150 newsletter subscribers just in a few weeks.
> KU is not evil. It's just not for everyone.


What genre, if you don't mind the question?

- MJS


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

mjstorm said:


> What genre, if you don't mind the question?
> 
> - MJS


Romance.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Okay, I'm about to say one of those unpopular things I tend to say because I don't know when to shut up. It is what it is. I'm actually Han Solo -- without the snug pants. Flame away.
I think a lot of people (notice I didn't say all) are upset about the payout with KU because they don't have that many borrows. For example, if you get 50 borrows a month, the difference between a $1.30 payout and a $2 payout is quite a bit on your bottom line. When you're not making good money, the difference can be profound. On the flip side, if you have 50,000 borrows a month, the payout can also be a big deal. That's a big profit difference. I'm in the middle.
I have never gone wide. I was always with Amazon. At first, it was because I didn't know better. Later, it was because I was unsure. Now? It's because I'm making more money than I've ever made in my life. As a caveat, I don't see myself staying with Select forever. I was originally planning on pulling out this winter. Now I'm holding on until spring. I want to see what happens. I don't know what will happen. No one does. There are people on here claiming they know -- and they are also the people claiming that the payout would be .50 after the first month.  I take it a 90-day period at a time. My decision is fluid.
I started a new pen name with KU in mind. It's worked very well for me so far. Absolutely no promotion, and I'm making sustained sales on a name no one has ever heard of. These are still novels, which are making the bigger money (outside of erotica) in KU. Once my day job is done on Jan. 10, I plan on adding a second series to that pen name. It's a work in progress. I plan on resurrecting an old erotica name, and launching a new gay erotica name into the mix, too. All with KU in mind. My big sellers are still in. Yes, I'm a KU All-Star (have been for three of the total months -- highest I've gotten is the $2,500 bracket US, $500 UK). My goal is to get my pen name to be an All-Star, too. I don't foresee that happening for at least six months. Like I said, it's a work in progress. When I do pull out of Select, I will probably do it a series at a time (my worst selling series being my test subject -- for obvious reasons). I'm not doing anything whole hog.
I think, what people seem to forget, is that you still have to attract people in KU.  People complain about scamlets, and they complain about short stories, and they complain about erotica -- blah, blah, blah. If your'e that worried about what other people are doing, you're not doing your job right. If you're writing a book about having a horse in your yard (yes, I've actually seen that -- and heard the author complain bitterly about losing the payout on two borrows a month) I get it. Do I think that book is going to sell well wide? Absolutely not. That's not my business. I think, when you're selling a specific amount of books a month, going wide makes sense. For me, I'm getting 10,000+ borrows a month. I'm getting increased ranking. I'm getting more sales now than before KU. The borrows are a bonus. Like I said, I'm in that funny middle. It is working for me.
The thing that bothers me is the people telling everyone else what to do. People who are in Select seem to be telling people to choose their own destiny. They're not advocating for it. They're telling people what has worked for them, and what hasn't. Those vehemently against it are telling people they're idiots. They're calling them names. They're degrading them. That's the problem. People here need to make their own decisions. You aren't just artists. You are running a business now. Sure, you're selling yourself, but telling others what to do with their bank accounts is ludicrous. That is their decision.
Yes, I know I got lucky. I managed to hit. I know a lot of people on here are waiting for it to happen. I don't think I'm better than anyone. I got lucky. I like to think I write something people like, but I'm also not thin-skinned. There are people on this forum who haven't hit who are better writers than I am. There are people on here who should have hit. I can't change that. I also work hard. I'm working eighty hours a week right now. I didn't luck on to money without putting the work in.
There are people on here claiming that KU is going to fail (next month, if you believe some). I have trouble believing that because they keep launching KU in other countries. Amazon doesn't care if KU makes money. They care about driving people to other items on their website. KU isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Do I think it will last forever? I have no idea. No one does (no matter what certain people say on here). Do I think Amazon will probably change the payout pyramid? That's more likely. Do I think that's happening in the next three months or so? Nope. People on here make big of people leaving, but when you look at authors who don't hang around this board, that's clearly not the case.
One of the more interesting things I've found is that those complaining about the payout (most of whom are not in Select, mind you) are the same ones saying they would put their books in KU if it wasn't exclusive. I get not wanting to be exclusive. I get not wanting to put your eggs in one basket. That seems like a funny conundrum, though. If the payout isn't fair to authors now, and Amazon is using you like a tampon -- but you would be in if you didn't have to be exclusive -- how does that work?
Anyway, like I said, flame away.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Quote from: Jj2011 on Yesterday at 11:53:38 AM
I suspect there is another reason joe is leaving ku and it has to do with his upcoming enterprise. If u have been reading his blog u probably know what it is. Being in select might complicate this so he's taking his books out as a result.



Talwyn said:


> Scans Konrath's blog to figure this out.


As I recall, he was foreshadowing (not directly stating) opening a competing store, not just for his own works or a few friends, but much broader.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Kindle Unlimited has been awesome for me. Life changing awesome. I just left my husband and moved to Oregon to be near my family because I've gotten such a boost in income. Yeah, I'm no longer stuck in a life I don't like. How can that be bad? 
I don't have anything bad to say about KU. The great thing about being and indie author is that I can adapt quickly to change, so I'm not particularly scared of the future. I think it's a successful program for Amazon and they'd probably like to keep it that way. I've been making great money, for me, in KU. It might kind of be luck, but I have six going on seven pen names, it can't be _all_ luck. I don't make as much as Hans, but I'm now making a good living. 
I just think I write things people want to borrow, and I plan to keep doing just that as long as it works. If it stops working, I'll adapt to whatever model works then.

Merry Christmas Kboards. Stay sexy. 

I'm going to eat health food, do yoga, and work on my good vibes like the rest of the hippies in Oregon.

Hugs


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> Okay, I'm about to say one of those unpopular things I tend to say because I don't know when to shut up. It is what it is. I'm actually Han Solo -- without the snug pants. Flame away.
> I think a lot of people (notice I didn't say all) are upset about the payout with KU because they don't have that many borrows. For example, if you get 50 borrows a month, the difference between a $1.30 payout and a $2 payout is quite a bit on your bottom line. When you're not making good money, the difference can be profound. On the flip side, if you have 50,000 borrows a month, the payout can also be a big deal. That's a big profit difference. I'm in the middle.
> I have never gone wide. I was always with Amazon. At first, it was because I didn't know better. Later, it was because I was unsure. Now? It's because I'm making more money than I've ever made in my life. As a caveat, I don't see myself staying with Select forever. I was originally planning on pulling out this winter. Now I'm holding on until spring. I want to see what happens. I don't know what will happen. No one does. There are people on here claiming they know -- and they are also the people claiming that the payout would be .50 after the first month. I take it a 90-day period at a time. My decision is fluid.
> I started a new pen name with KU in mind. It's worked very well for me so far. Absolutely no promotion, and I'm making sustained sales on a name no one has ever heard of. These are still novels, which are making the bigger money (outside of erotica) in KU. Once my day job is done on Jan. 10, I plan on adding a second series to that pen name. It's a work in progress. I plan on resurrecting an old erotica name, and launching a new gay erotica name into the mix, too. All with KU in mind. My big sellers are still in. Yes, I'm a KU All-Star (have been for three of the total months -- highest I've gotten is the $2,500 bracket US, $500 UK). My goal is to get my pen name to be an All-Star, too. I don't foresee that happening for at least six months. Like I said, it's a work in progress. When I do pull out of Select, I will probably do it a series at a time (my worst selling series being my test subject -- for obvious reasons). I'm not doing anything whole hog.
> ...


If I could go wide and still be in Select and KU I would because I do get good borrows and the other sites I could sell on would be gravy. As an indie author, I want my books to be everywhere and it burns my behind that I have to just rely on KDP! If I didn't get good borrows then I could see where there would be a problem. Anyway, in my case it's just I want my cake and eat it too. I want the benefits of select and KU but I want to sell my books anywhere and everywhere I can! I hate it when I get asked if it's available on NOOK and I have to grit my teeth and say no! I want to say yes, yes, yes for the love of all that's holy YES! Go forth and buy my books everywhere muhahaha! Okay, got carried away, sorry. I recently started selling my books for instant (no waiting two months to get paid) cash on my website and I can't put up book 2 in one of my series because it's in select until February. I can't sell my own book from my own webpage!

I agree with 98% of your post. I just wish I knew who the heck you were?  <---see smiley face means I am kidding you a little! I see you around the boards and I wonder every time I see your posts if you are some bot or algorithm gone horribly wrong!  For a long time I thought you were a guy! I would love to know how long your books are, how long your series' are? You hint, and sometimes talk, about your genre being erotica but that's all I know. I am interested in your success, but you are like some ill wind blowing across the barren, snowy fields of indie success. One of the only entities who finds sustenance in the otherwise sparse landscape of KU.  Okay, I got weird there for a minute. Sorry again.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't think many KBoarders are grouching about your success, Yoda, or anyone else's, who are doing great with KU. Many are just bringing up their own experiences and problems, which often times are the opposite of yours, that's all. Everyone knows you've done well ($10,000 a month! Congrats!) and I'm very happy for you and for my other friends who are doing great too. You're the dissenting voice on every thread to remind us that there are many Yodas out there. Thank you.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Think like a businessman and not like an author.


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Sorry if this has already been posted.
> 
> https://ebookbargainsuk.wordpress.com/2014/12/21/exodus-konrath-joins-the-big-hitters-leaving-kindle-unlimited-as-amazon-continues-to-punish-indies-for-their-loyalty/
> 
> Exodus! Konrath Joins The Big-Hitters Leaving Kindle Unlimited As Amazon Continues To Punish Indies For Their Loyalty.


Don't forget that eBookBargainsUK has a big chip on his/their shoulder against amazon. If you look back through their blog you will see anti-amazon post after anti-amazon post. So take the source with a grain of salt.
As regards Joe Konrath leaving KU, I'm sure he's doing it for very good business reasons. Reasons that suit his business. I am staying in KU for another three months because I think that is best for my business. Maybe in three months I'll be leaving KDP-Select and he'll be moving back into KU! Who knows we'll both make our decisions for ourselves as we react to the changing market.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Is there any reason why anyone should care about this blogger?


No reason at all, that I can see.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Jj2011 said:


> Do u really have to ask? I'm sure all the titles have the words alpha and billionaire and BBW in them. Apparently that's the new Twilight for adults.


I like to think that I provide value to the threads on Writer's Cafe. Clearly I am mistaken. All of my success is based on the fact that my catalog has alpha billionaires and BBW heroines. Thanks for pointing this out, Jj2011. I'm off to have Harvey close my account. I can read kboards all I want without the account, and clearly have no value to add otherwise.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Christa -

Why are you going to let someone who's only been a member here for 2 months get under your skin? Hun, you provide a ton of value to this board! Who cares if your books have alpha or billionaire in the titles? They have an audience, which is much more than many of the anonymous posters here can say. I've had people tell me I'm not writing real stories since I'm writing "fan fiction" of Jane Austen. Yeah, but the royalty checks hitting my bank account are real enough, sooooo not sure what they're getting at. 

I truly hope you were being sarcastic.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

What Elizabeth said.  (Want a job, EAW?)

Folks, we have author members who write in many genres.  Let's be respectful of each other and not belittle genres just because it's not something you would read.  I've removed a post which did so.  

Let's keep it civil and I do hope you reconsider, Christa.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Some familiar KBoarders mentioned in the blog . Awaiting replies in defence.


Aha, you'll be waiting a while! It's too ridiculous to respond really.

As for KU itself, I put some brief thoughts on my Twitter feed if anyone cares, but it's nothing that hasn't been said in greater detail here on KBoards by all of you. But I've never really been in Select or KU so take all of that with a truckload of salt.


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## RubyMadden (Jun 11, 2014)

I'm a newbie and a short-term lurker, reading many threads with great interest. I'll do my best to not push any 'buttons' and aim to be neutral.

What I've consistently noticed is that there is a lot of assumption happening. One key element continues to be left out of the conversation...

The READER...
...which translates to the customer...

Funny thing, that. We're all readers (I hope, or you have no business writing imho!) and we're also all customers. Readers/Customers are easy to understand if you are willing to analyze your own purchase-buying-renting-leasing behavior. Any goods or service product involves the 'art of trade & commerce'. The exchange. And there are literally hundreds of ways to hybridize a transaction or sale of goods.

Sooooo, does it really surprise you that all the major players in eBook distribution have upped the ante and are chasing after the *same* thing? What the customer wants? In this situation - the Reader.

Change is the only true constant of life we can count on. Some people love change. Some people hate change. Some are willing to adjust and thrive.

What I've noticed is that the recent changes (2014 kicked our collective butts!) have really provided the need to drill down into your writing business. Because, that is what this *is*, fundamentally. Unless all of your titles are listed as PERMAFREE, you're in the reading business. Not the book business. The READING business.

And access is what readers and customers want. Period. 
They want it any and every way possible. I would know! I'm one of them!

I pre-order hardcover/softcover books from author's I adore.
I buy bundles and box-sets, both in eBook and paper format.
I am *always* scouring for FREE books, specials and deals.
I read 60/40. 60% indie / 40% trad. I put my $$ in what I believe in.
I review the heck out of good reads.
I am enrolled in both KU & Scribd.
I like all of the options. Reading is my favorite hobby and past-time.

I read using PLAY, iBooks & Kindle. I read on my smartphone, my PC and my eReader.

What matters to me as a customer is variety and options. Customers are very savvy. Way more savvy than most authors give them credit for. Now, more than ever, authors need to know their READERS.

_*Ask your readers, what do you want?*_

Your approach will be unique and tailored to you, just like your stories are. We're not all writing the same-length titles and/or genres. Nope. Lots of variety!

I get it, Amazon is a Goliath in terms of market penetration and that scares anyone who has half a business brain. They have access to something so utterly valuable, its beyond comprehension. They have customer profile buying and behavior habits. It's an art. It's a science and every single tiny aspect of it is condense-able, viable, trend-driven information and data. Don't bemoan it!

Get behind it! Amazon has told you a HUGE secret. Readers would like to borrow some books and own others. Sometimes, even both. Yes, some of my borrows have translated into sales. Meaning, when I returned the title, I decided it was a keeper and purchased it.

Do you need to throw everything into a subscription-borrow based model? I don't know, but probably not.
Do you need to keep some titles and series WIDE (A KING)? Probably...

Thankfully, the other players in the market are getting more sophisticated. PLAY (google) has made quite a lot of significant changes to enhance their platform in the last year. Question? Do any of you know what those have been? I do...

In the end, this is a survivor's and persistent author's time to shine. They will adjust, adapt, modify, augment, analyse, study and 'mind their business'. If you can't do it, then get someone who can.

Know your reader.
Know your business.
Make 2015 a year to prove, you have a story to share that readers want to buy and borrow. Wherever, however.

Okay, jumping off my soapbox... for now.


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## RubyMadden (Jun 11, 2014)

Christa Wick said:


> I like to think that I provide value to the threads on Writer's Cafe. Clearly I am mistaken. All of my success is based on the fact that my catalog has alpha billionaires and BBW heroines. Thanks for pointing this out, Jj2011. I'm off to have Harvey close my account. I can read kboards all I want without the account, and clearly have no value to add otherwise.


Please don't... 
I'll miss ya! I just got here... 
{{HUGS}}


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2014)

Mark Tyson said:


> If scribd and Oyster can pay full royalties for downloads why can't Amazon?


It is all a math game. Paying "full royalties" on 99 cents books is not all that big of a deal. And since so many indies insist on using that price point, you can get a lot of very cheap content for your subscription model that way. With Amazon's weird algorithms, even if the payout is down to $1.33, you are still coming out ahead on a 99 cent book.

ALL of these subscription models are dependent on two things: very cheap content and low reader numbers. Forget the people who read a book a day. Most people never use thee full value of their subscription. Doesn't matter if it is a gym membership or an WOW subscription or Netflix or Oyster. People tend to binge use subscriptions. You'll use it a lot in the beginning, and then go months without using it at all. Those months you pay for the subscription without using it are free money to the company.

These subscriptions are not sold to readers who are looking for indie books that cost a couple of bucks. They are sold to people who WANT to be heavy readers, but aren't. The reason why they promote books from large publishers in the promotional material is because people see the those books sell for $7-$12 each. They are targeting the people who read maybe two or three books a month, and they think they are "saving money" because the list price of the books are the same as a subscription and they are "going to read more!" this year. But they aren't. They are going to read the same amount they always read.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

YodaRead said:


> I'm actually Han Solo -- without the snug pants.


LOL!

You simply must make this your tagline under your avatar. 

Thank you for all the time you put into encouraging the rest of us, Yoda Han.


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

Jj2011 said:


> Do u really have to ask? I'm sure all the titles have the words alpha and billionaire and BBW in them. Apparently that's the new Twilight for adults.


None of my successful titles have the words alpha, billionaire or BBW in them, but authors who do write in those sub-genres don't deserve such condescension. It's not easy to write as it might seem and writing them doesn't guarantee success. I would know - I tried to write it, but my success was modest at best. Then I switched sub-genres and wrote something I enjoyed more - to a great success. There is no 'get rich quick' formula.


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## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

Monique said:


> Unless you are one of the special ones, you are.


Special ones, trad pubbed...

Not everyone in KU is in Select.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

rosclarke said:


> Special ones, trad pubbed...
> 
> Not everyone in KU is in Select.


Of course, but since we're generally addressing the average indie here who *must* be in Select...


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## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

Monique said:


> Of course, but since we're generally addressing the average indie here who *must* be in Select...


Sorry, my original comment was to someone who thought the blogger had made an error by distinguishing KU from Select. I don't think that's an error, though you're right that most people here will be in both or neither.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Betsy, does the job come with 36 hours in a day?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

rosclarke said:


> Sorry, my original comment was to someone who thought the blogger had made an error by distinguishing KU from Select. I don't think that's an error, though you're right that most people here will be in both or neither.


Ah, yes. I do think it was an error because they didn't specify that it is the exception rather than the rule.


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## Jarrett Rush (Jun 19, 2010)

*YodaRead* wrote:



> For me, I'm getting 10,000+ borrows a month. I'm getting increased ranking. I'm getting more sales now than before KU. The borrows are a bonus. Like I said, I'm in that funny middle. It is working for me.


This where I'm trying to get to. I understand the limitations of Select. And for the longest time I kept my books in wide release, mostly on principle. I just wanted to feel like I was making myself more discoverable by doing that. I suppose I was in the most technical sense. But when you looked at my sales numbers, the very few sales (a couple a books a month, if I was lucky) were almost all from Amazon. So, really, I wanted to be discovered, but that wasn't happening. That's why I decided to try and use the resources I had and try and build a readership using some of the promo tools that Amazon gave to me.

I put all my books back into Select in November. I have a Countdown deal that's running the last week of the year. I've got some promotion built around it. I'm hoping for enough sales and borrows that I can increase my rank, increase my reviews, and grow my mailing list. I feel like KU and Select are the ideal ways to do that right now for someone who is cash strapped and time poor.

I may be crazy, and this may not work at all. But I feel like, for the stage I'm at in my writing career right now, Select and KU give me the best shot. I'm the kind of author it works for. Or, could potentially work for. We'll see how this goes. My promotion plan may be a big flaming turd that I come back here and hurl at all of you KU supporters in my disgust and anger. Kidding. Ish.


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

rosclarke said:


> Sorry, my original comment was to someone who thought the blogger had made an error by distinguishing KU from Select. I don't think that's an error, though you're right that most people here will be in both or neither.


The blogger *did* make an error. Not "by distinguishing KU from Select," but by claiming - erroneously - that Mr. Konrath / Kilborn could leave KU "at any time."

The blogger's original post:



> Konrath says he's taking all (not some, all) his titles out "after this period". The mixed tense suggests he's pulling them when the current 90 day KDP Select runs finishes.
> 
> But why wait? Amazon lets you opt out of KU at any time.


The blogger has now edited his post to acknowledge that, in fact, he *did* make an error:



> (Edited) But why wait? When KU launched, all Select titles were included but it gave indies the chance to opt-out. Konrath clearly chose to stay in despite his belief subscription services devalue books. It seems that opt-out is no longer available


You were saying?


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## Sargon (Oct 5, 2014)

Yoda, you're an inspiration and I always love reading your posts and hearing about your numbers!! And you have earned that success through hard work, probably more than the luck that you mention.

ETA: Sorry, I should have said "certainly more than the luck..."!


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

Sargon said:


> Yoda, you're an inspiration and I always love reading your posts and hearing about your numbers!! And you have earned that success through hard work, probably more than the luck that you mention.
> 
> ETA: Sorry, I should have said "certainly more than the luck..."!


I bid 40 quatloos on the newcomer!


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## Deborahsmith author (Jul 23, 2013)

> Again indies seem to have the memory of a goldfish. Let me refresh your memory: KU is in no way about ebooks, it's about capturing emails and data on everyone and what they purchase to predict what they can sell them next.


Amen. This is why Amazon doesn't care what gets dumped into KU or which authors stay or go. As long as new meat is being listed and new subscribers keep signing on, the A is getting that precious data. The data is the goldmine. The books are just bait.

_Edited to correct formatting. --Betsy_


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> Quote from: Jj2011 on Yesterday at 10:43:43 AM
> Do u really have to ask? I'm sure all the titles have the words alpha and billionaire and BBW in them. Apparently that's the new Twilight for adults.


This kind of attitude is what runs people off this board who can help the rest of us do better writing and self-publishing.



Christa Wick said:


> I like to think that I provide value to the threads on Writer's Cafe. Clearly I am mistaken. All of my success is based on the fact that my catalog has alpha billionaires and BBW heroines. Thanks for pointing this out, Jj2011. I'm off to have Harvey close my account. I can read kboards all I want without the account, and clearly have no value to add otherwise.


Christa, please don't let people like that run you off the boards. You have provided much good advice and shared information that's helped me, and I know others feel the same.

It's a shame that people feel free to share their horrid attitudes here, while good people have to hide, or leave altogether. It's why I've taken my books out of my signature, along with my blog link and any personal information on my profile. I don't post much here any more because of it.

But I'll keep making my pittance from KU every month, watching it grow. Everybody else can do what they please.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> I like to think that I provide value to the threads on Writer's Cafe. Clearly I am mistaken. All of my success is based on the fact that my catalog has alpha billionaires and BBW heroines. Thanks for pointing this out, Jj2011. I'm off to have Harvey close my account. I can read kboards all I want without the account, and clearly have no value to add otherwise.


I sent Harvey a PM within the last week about the shifting tone in this place. There has always been snark here, but there also seems to be an element of shaming others for liking Amazon or writing about Alpha Billionaires and BBW heroines or asking questions that some posters feel are stupid questions. I've seen an increase over the last few weeks of this. Perhaps, I'm imagining things, but I certainly don't want you to go because of someone wanting to poke at folks.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2014)

Moist_Tissue said:


> I sent Harvey a PM within the last week about the shifting tone in this place. There has always been snark here, but there also seems to be an element of shaming others for liking Amazon or writing about Alpha Billionaires and BBW heroines or asking questions that some posters feel are stupid questions.


Honestly, I think cheap swipes at erotica authors say more about the contempt some people have for readers than the authors of those books. Most of the studies I've read over the years have said the same thing: romance and erotica in all of their incarnations make up about 50% of the ebook market. These genres were, in fact, early adopters of the ebook format and were big business even before the Kindle. That market is absolutely huge, full of voracious readers who routinely consume five or more books a week, and who are incredibly loyal to their favorite authors. I'm not a fan of the genres personally, but I have enormous respect for the authors who work in it because they deal with a rather vocal demographic that WILL let you know if you get it wrong.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Christa Wick said:


> I like to think that I provide value to the threads on Writer's Cafe. Clearly I am mistaken. All of my success is based on the fact that my catalog has alpha billionaires and BBW heroines. Thanks for pointing this out, Jj2011. I'm off to have Harvey close my account. I can read kboards all I want without the account, and clearly have no value to add otherwise.


No, no, no, this is all the wrong way to react, Christa! Instead, you gotta just tell those jealous folks to go [expletive]ing [expletive]* and [expletive] [expletive] with [expletive]ing [expletive] [expletive] and also [expletive] [expletive] with an extra side of [expletive] their [expletive] selves. 

Stay here. The rest of us value you.

*No actual f-bombs were harmed in the making of this post. - Society for the Prevention of Cussing on KB


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't have too much to add other than the fact that I'm another author benefiting tremendously from the KU program. 

What I've come to understand about KU is that it's a no brainer for certain price points, genres, degrees of author popularity and book lengths. If your writing falls outside those categories, however, KU won't be worth it for you. 

I'm also not worried about Amazon taking over the world, or ruining book publishing, or any other such concern. My book rights are mine. I'm only committing to Amazon in 90 day chunks. Apple and Google aren't going anywhere. Kobo is owned by a massive corporation that doesn't have money issues either. So if Amazon changes its policies in a way I don't like, I'll still have someplace to go.

For now though, I am very happy being in Select, and very happy being in KU.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Yoda and Ruby, great posts. But those 2 posters certainly weren't the only 2 with great posts. As I read through the rest of the thread, I started building a list of people to compliment and, because it was so long by the time I got to the end, I forgot most of it. I'm omitting many names I want to compliment.



> If scribd and Oyster can pay full royalties for downloads why can't Amazon?


I don't believe Scribd and Oyster need to be in the green because their venture capital investors expect them both to run in the red. Now that isn't saying that Amazon's business model dictates KU has to be profitable. It's just saying that because Scribd and Oyster ( ?? and maybe KU ?? ) aren't expected to be profitable, one can't draw conclusions regarding the programs paying full royalties and being profitable while paying them. Whether any of the subscription models can turn a profit paying any of the current royalty rates is only speculation.

Christa
I'm the gal who put BBOS2 together and I'm hoping me saying that is enough for you to know who I am. I wanna tell ya' hi, mention that it has been a long time - too long - and send ya' my best. I hope this finds you and your family in good health and life has continued to be good to you. You know, when it comes to comments like Jj's? Either he'll figure stuff out and start to get it or we'll figure out that we need to get ear plugs, lol. Anyway, just wanted to say hi and let ya know it is nice to see you friend.


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## RubyMadden (Jun 11, 2014)

Someone said:


> Yoda and Ruby, great posts. But those 2 posters certainly weren't the only 2 with great posts.


I appreciate that, thank you! It's a good thread and I'm a believer that fruitful things happen with healthy discussion and debate.


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## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

Evan of the R. said:


> The blogger *did* make an error. Not "by distinguishing KU from Select," but by claiming -- erroneously -- that Mr. Konrath / Kilborn could leave KU "at any time."
> 
> The blogger's original post:
> 
> ...


Huh? The fact that he made an entirely different error elsewhere in his post doesn't make the point about KU and Select also erroneous.


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

rosclarke said:


> Huh? The fact that he made an entirely different error elsewhere in his post doesn't make the point about KU and Select also erroneous.


It certainly appears to be erroneous in the one case he's specifically writing about: that of Mr. Konrath.

I can't speak for Mr. Konrath, but I _can_ quote him. On this point, he wrote: "I opted out several weeks ago. But the period is three months, so they're still enrolled until January."

To me, that doesn't sound like KU and Select are two distinct things in Mr. Konrath's case.

It sounds like - as with the other point - this blogger simply got it wrong.


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