# Two Major Publishers To Hold Back E-Books (4 month delay on upcoming releases)



## Sporadic (May 1, 2009)

> Simon & Schuster is delaying by four months the electronic-book editions of about 35 leading titles coming out early next year, taking a dramatic stand against the cut-rate $9.99 pricing of e-book best sellers.
> 
> A second publisher, Lagardere SCA's Hachette Book Group, said it has similar plans in the works.
> 
> ...


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704825504574584372263227740.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I'm so angry about this...I'm speechless.


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## Chris W (Aug 17, 2009)

I've made a personal decision that I won't buy *any* version of a book from a publisher or author who refuses to simultaneously release e-versions of their titles. This sounds like a ridiculous decision by these companies, because e-book customers buy more titles than regular customers. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'll be using my library card to read any of these titles, and keeping my hard earned money away from people who can't accept that their business model is changing. I'll also be sending in complaints to the authors and publishers informing them of my decision.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Simon and Schuster have been the subject of a lot of flack on the amazon forums due to their pricing policy and delaying of releases.  Honestly, I can understand their wanting to delay the e-book release until after the hard cover, it makes as much sense as waiting a year to release a paperback version.  Oh, wait, I mean it makes as little sense to the buyer but as much sense to the people looking at the bottom line.  They haven't grasped that e-book readers (people, not machines) are just going to wait for the e-book release and a drop in price.

Also, what they don't seem to get is that most book pirating is done from scanned copies of the hardcover and not from file sharing of an e-book file.  

S & S will learn their lesson when the books sit on the shelves and end up being remaindered.  

I've got too much other stuff to read to buy any of their stuff right now anyway.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Sounds like this is only going to affect the books that are expected to be the very hottest bestsellers.  If my interpretation is correct, it won't affect you much unless you are a big fan of those type of books.

This will work great, and accomplish what the publishers want, if most ebook readers go ahead and buy the DTB edition.  My suspicion is that over time, that scenario will happen less and less, though.  The publishers are doing everything they can to save their current business model and avoid changing. Not too surprising, change is scarey and risky, and I'm sure many of the managers in publishing sincerely believe that heading down the book path will ruin them.

If you don't like this, you can complain to the publishers and to Amazon (who will correctly refer you to the publishers).  I doubt this will have any effect.  If enough people just don't buy at all the books that are treated in this way, it will definitely have an effect if that situation continues.  If a substantial number of people don't buy the hardback release, but do buy the ebook version when it is released later, I doubt that will be much of an incentive for publishers to change their ways, and they will probably go forward with this plan, or even expand it to more books.

It's easy for me to say, but I wouldn't "get mad" over this.  It is the publisher's right to try to arrange things and market their products as they wish, just as it is your right to buy only the products you choose to.  I agree that the way they are going isn't the way you and I would prefer, but it isn't "morally wrong" on their part.  They're within their rights.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Chris W said:


> I'll be using my library card to read any of these titles, and keeping my hard earned money away from people who can't accept that their business model is changing.


That's actually a great idea!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Frankly, the books I cannot wait for four months to appear on my Kindle are very few and far between, and likely might be ones I want in hardcover anyway. Therefore, I don't see this impacting me a whole lot. But I tend to read very few of the books that typically end up on the NYT best-sellers list, so your mileage may vary.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

> An Amazon spokesman said, "Authors get the most publicity at launch and need to strike while the iron is hot. If readers can't get their preferred format at that moment, they may buy a different book or just not buy a book at all."


I am with the others. The stuff I have been reading on my Kindle (and enjoying) have not been big bestsellers so holding back the ebooks probably won't affect me. But I still don't like this decision. I don't think the comparison of an ebook to paperback is correct. It is better to consider the ebook as akin to the audio version, which often is released immediately. But, people pay top dollar for audio books which is the crux of the issue.

You know how this will backfire on publishers: illegal bootleg ebooks. Isn't that what folks are discussing in the "disturbing trend" thread? I am sure I could find Sarah Palin's book for download in about 5 minutes of searching, if I really wanted to (I don't, however) even though it's not being released until Dec 26.

L


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## bce (Nov 17, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Frankly, the books I cannot wait for four months to appear on my Kindle are very few and far between, and likely might be ones I want in hardcover anyway. Therefore, I don't see this impacting me a whole lot. But I tend to read very few of the books that typically end up on the NYT best-sellers list, so your mileage may vary.


I agree. Before I got my Kindle, I usually waited for the paperback to come out. Even ones that were best-sellers. I can certainly wait four-months to buy anything I want. It's not like there is nothing else out there to read.

I'm not quire sure I agree with boycotting the publishers over this. Wouldn't it be better for them to see sales jump again when they release the e-book? Wouldn't that send the message we want to send?


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## Carld (Dec 2, 2009)

Stephen King and J. K. Rowling  were basically the only authors  I bought new in hardback pre-Kindle and both of those could usually be found heavily discounted online or in-store. I decided to wait and buy "Under the Dome" for the Kindle, even with the delayed release date only because I got it for $7.20 on pre-order. I don't expect I'll be interested in waiting 4 months for a new title very often. There are enough good free and low-cost ebooks out there to keep me busy reading that I'll likely pass over Simon & Schuster.

PS: "We believe some people will be disappointed."

Ya'think?


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## dnagirl (Oct 21, 2009)

Funny how they mention that Under the Dome DTB is priced at $22.75 at B&N yet they fail to remark on Amazon and WalMart selling it for $9.00.  If the ebook was $9.99 in this case, they'd actually be making more money.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

I can accept this compromise if it brings more publishers to the e-book fold. Of course I realize this is really about publishers fighting against amazon over pricing and each one trying to make the other blink (I think publishers have LONG since surrendered to Wal-mart). But it won't kill me to wait a few months, or drop for the hardback if it is a must-have book.

But ultimately I think publishers will embrace the e-book format once they figure out how to realize savings from no physical copies, less piracy, and a diminished resale market.

Of course there is really only one must have book for me, George R. Martins newest, and that has been delayed so often that I think paper as a medium will be obsolete by the time it comes out


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## TheSeagull (Oct 25, 2009)

I think the publishers are wrong in this case. I suppose it's hard to place a price on a story but I was under the impression that the reason that hardbacks are more expensive is because of the materials used to make them surely? Therefore eBooks SHOULD be cheaper. This time last year I wouldn't have read an ebook but I will now, I realise that change is necessary, that's the way it always will be. Less paper use is good surely. I don't see why publishers are so opposed, maybe let them set their own prices.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost $20 MORE to make a hardback versus the paperback, so what the publishers are anxious about, but don't want to publically admit, is that they soak the reader for $$$ with the high profit hardback, and then accept a much lower return once the paperback is released. So they are understandable afraid of a flat $10 book price, as that deeply cuts into their profit margin. Even if amazon (and presumably B&N and Wal-mart) is making the cut from their portion of the profit, eventually public opinion will be that ALL books, e- or tree, should start at $10 and the retailers will then force the publisher to take a big hit from their side of the profit.

I think they also are starting to feel the 5% or whatever e-reader hit on the NY bestseller list. By delaying the e-book release, some bean counter somewhere thinks they can recapture some of the e-reader market and get more first week sales to crow about. If e-book sales were counted in bestseller ranking, that opposition would go away.


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## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

The only real way that we can influence the decisions of the publishers is with our wallets.  I've taken a stand against publishers who will not release ebooks or that delay the release.  I will not spend my money on the hard back - period.  I have been using my library more for those books.  When the Kindle version is released, I may or may not purchase it.  It really depends on whether I want to read the book again.
I do send feedback to Amazon on those titles and usually send email to the publisher as well to let them know they have totally lost a sale.
I know there are lots of us out there who just don't have any more room for paper books and won't buy them.  It's just going to take some time for a new publishing model to emerge.


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## MINImum (Oct 15, 2009)

Very interesting article.  This is just the growing pains of a new technology, much like in the music industry when music became available for download.  It took a few years and a few lawsuits, but eventually industry standards were put in place that made everyone (relatively) happy.

I am buying MORE books because of the Kindle, because I never bought hardcovers in the first place.  I wonder what percentage of ebook buyers are like me in that respect.

And I love this line:  "Some publishers worry that retailers will eventually insist on paying less."  Um, you think?  Ever hear of a little gem called the free market?


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Unfortunately I do not have a library that I can use at hand, but I am among the rest of you who want to boycott those publishers who are holding back on their e-books.  I don't buy the 9.99 books anyway, I get the bargain or free books, and have found some terrific authors that the big publishers won't even let in the door, so BAH on you publishers who are too scared to try something new.


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## SongbirdVB (Nov 18, 2008)

Andra said:


> The only real way that we can influence the decisions of the publishers is with our wallets. I've taken a stand against publishers who will not release ebooks or that delay the release. I will not spend my money on the hard back - period.


I totally agree. I have purchased a couple of new releases for $9.99, but it hurt.  There is no way I'll spend extra to have a hard cover book, I'm trying to thin the collection of paper books I have as it is! If necessary I will wait the 4 months for the e-books I've GOT to have, but some that I might have purchased will likely go unbought. If it's not available when I'm looking for it I'll find something else. Maybe I'll still be interested when they decide to release the e-book but if it's a new-to-me author I'll probably have forgotten about it by then.



MINImum said:


> I am buying MORE books because of the Kindle, because I never bought hardcovers in the first place. I wonder what percentage of ebook buyers are like me in that respect.


I think this is true for a LOT of us! I know I've spent a lot more on books since I got my Kindle.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

dnagirl said:


> Funny how they mention that Under the Dome DTB is priced at $22.75 at B&N yet they fail to remark on Amazon and WalMart selling it for $9.00. If the ebook was $9.99 in this case, they'd actually be making more money.


This is what confuses me. The hardcovers were $9 for pre-release (they've now gone back up a little, I think). The publishers are having problems on ALL fronts, not just ebooks. Yet it is ebooks they are taking their frustration out on.

Here's an idea - if they want to make some money, they could bundle a hardcover with an ebook version for a few dollars more than the hardcover alone. I probably wouldn't buy that, but I think a lot of people would, and they end up with more money in their pockets.


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## whiterab (May 29, 2009)

One point the publishers are missing is that they believe I am just waiting for a certain book to come out.  On my Kindle right now are at least 15 samples of books I am interested in reading.  I read about 2 -3 books a week.

Before e-stores and e-books, I made my twice a month trek to the bookstore to keep myself stocked.  I was limited to what was on the shelf and there was always the fear of running out of something to read.

With the web I have a vastly widened opportunity to find books.  Amazons and other on-line retailers are not limited in shelf space as are the brick and mortar stores.  Google and the Gutenberg Project are making available books that no store could afford shelf space for.  Independent writers now have affordable ways to self-publish.

On my browser's "Favorites" list I also have about a dozen websites that review books to keep me informed.  Books of interest to me have a hard time slipping by my attention.  I now find about a half dozen books a week that I am interested in.

In short, for me the dynamics of book buying have changed completely.  That fear of "Not having something to read" is gone and has been replaced by "How am I going to read all this?".  

With an e-reader I read about 30% faster than I did before.  I have more opportunities to read because it is so portable.  My Kindle is lighter than a hard bound book and the the text is so much easier on my older eyes.

In short, I'm not waiting on a publisher anymore.  If it's not available for my Kindle right now, I'm going to download something else and not worry about it.


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## CegAbq (Mar 17, 2009)

I used my library EXTENSIVELY before I got my Kindle, both for DTBs & audiobooks. I still use my library extensively. I avail myself of the Kindle freebies extensively as well. IF I am going to buy a book, now I only buy what is in ebook format, but those are very limited. (Pre-Kindle, the only hardback books that my family bought were the Harry Potter series, because we just couldn't wait for the paperback or long hold line at the library; everything else I read came from the library). I got an audible.com account to bring down the cost of audiobooks for those that I know I will want to re-listen to again & again.

The publishers are totally forgetting (or ignoring) our public library model in this whole book business.


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## DD (Nov 9, 2008)

Chris W said:


> I've made a personal decision that I won't buy *any* version of a book from a publisher or author who refuses to simultaneously release e-versions of their titles. This sounds like a ridiculous decision by these companies, because e-book customers buy more titles than regular customers. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
> I'll be using my library card to read any of these titles, and keeping my hard earned money away from people who can't accept that their business model is changing. I'll also be sending in complaints to the authors and publishers informing them of my decision.


I'm with you! This is terrible. I understand having to make business decisions to protect sales but they should realize that they would make up in sales volume what they would lose in dollars because of the growing interest in buying ebooks!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Unfortunately I do not have a library that I can use at hand, but I am among the rest of you who want to boycott those publishers who are holding back on their e-books. I don't buy the 9.99 books anyway, I get the bargain or free books, and have found some terrific authors that the big publishers won't even let in the door, so* BAH on you publishers who are too scared to try something new.*


Well said, Dona. The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get, so I should probably just stop thinking about it.

L


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## chilady1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Chris W said:


> I've made a personal decision that I won't buy *any* version of a book from a publisher or author who refuses to simultaneously release e-versions of their titles.


This is exactly how I feel and will continue to "boycott" in my own way. It really makes me mad that publishers are not embracing this new model. Instead of figuring out how this can enhance publishing, all they want to do is talk about how they will stall publications, hurting the public and themselves. If nothing else, the simultaneous release of The Lost Symbol hardcover with e-book showed the magnitude of this new model and the future of e-books. I am struggling to understand why this is such an issue for publishers (other than losing $$$) Even though Stephen King's Under the Dome is now pre-order price of $7.99, I refuse to buy this book because of the decision to release the e-book at a much later date. My view is that if they make me wait to read it, then I will make them wait for my money. I will use that $7.99 to buy other books.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

"Titles affected by Simon & Schuster's stance include Don DeLillo's novel "Point Omega," Karl Rove's memoir "Courage and Consequence" and Jodi Picoult's novel "House Rules."

Well, I hope these authors don't mind when I buy someone else's book instead. 

I'd LOL if they started tanking on hardcover sales as people just moved on to another book. After all, "so many books, so little time" 

That's the biggest change the Kindle has made for me, I now realize there are thousands of interesting books I will die long before I get the chance to read. I may die of old age before I finish what is on my Kindle now!! If you want my money you have to realize that your are in a very long que. Make it hard for me and someone else gets it instead...


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## Marguerite (Jan 18, 2009)

Just try and remember that these are people who are afraid that they are going the way of the record and cd stores.  They are afraid for their own lively hoods and paychecks.  It's scary out there for those who see the writing on the wall and don't know how they will feed their families if they can't stop the tide.  What they need to realize is that the tide is just building energy and they need to find their feet on the board to ride it instead of getting swamped.  Unfortunately these people may not have a clue how to do it and they will flounder.  Capitalism works and supply will be met by the wave surfers while leaving the other behind.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I still don't think the pubs problem is ebooks. Their problem is video games, movies, TV, etc that compete with reading and usually loses. Making your product less available is not going to increase the demand for books. 

If the Kindle increases my interest in reading, increases my discretionary spending spent on books I can't see how this is not a good thing. I have always been an avid reader, but the 2-3years pre-K were probably my low point in numbers of books bought. I was too busy to go to the bookstore or library. Now I spend way too much each month on books, I had to make a book budget and stick to it. 

Instead of growing their reading base, they would rather try to get a bigger portion of a shrinking pie (the NYT bestseller hardcovers) and they will blame us when there are two Houses left fighting over 100 people who still buy the 3 hardcover bestsellers as soon as they come out.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

Marguerite said:


> Just try and remember that these are people who are afraid that they are going the way of the record and cd stores. They are afraid for their own lively hoods and paychecks. It's scary out there for those who see the writing on the wall and don't know how they will feed their families if they can't stop the tide. What they need to realize is that the tide is just building energy and they need to find their feet on the board to ride it instead of getting swamped. Unfortunately these people may not have a clue how to do it and they will flounder. Capitalism works and supply will be met by the wave surfers while leaving the other behind.


Sure, it is scary. When my business model was changed for me (by a change in law), it was very scary. When your employer changes your rules, it will be scary. The MBA's running the major publishing houses get paid way too much to react this poorly and show this little creativity. Of course, they also get paid way too much to show this little proactive adaption to the marketplace. It isn't like the music industry hasn't gone first.

I think there are a number of flaws in their thinking. First, the ebook market may already be too big for this. Second, this is nothing more than a delay tactic. Third, their financial/pricing model is already cooked.

As for getting mad. Nope. I have already decided that the major publishing houses are toast. It is just a question of when. They are completely lacking in the imagination, vision and flexibility to survive in a changing environment. Writers will keep writing. We will keep reading and buying. We will simply move to a different distribution and validation system.

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


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## andy_in_virginia (Dec 3, 2009)

OK, I don't get the problem with this business model, and I don't get why anyone would talk about boycotting publishers or authors because of it. Personally, I can wait for a few months before I need to have a new book in my possession - I think in the last couple of years I have only purchased one book on the day it was published - but I have definitely picked up many new movies on the day they were released on DVD.  

Does anyone ever talk about boycotting a particular movie studio or director because the latest big movie takes three months or more to come out on DVD?  I saw the Star Trek movie at the theater back in July (I think, it was so long ago), but had to wait until last week for the DVD to go on sale.  Did any 'Twilight' fans out there boycott the movie because they couldn't go straight from the theater to Best Buy and pick up a copy of the movie?

I am more concerned with the publishers (and authors) that refuse to allow their books to be released in electronic format, or the possibility that some might say in the future that they will only release their books in a format compatible with the Nook or the Sony e-reader (or something else) but not the Kindle.


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

I think that they are settling for nothing when they could just have a higher initial ebook price.  More sales, at the launch, then drop the price when they've gotten over whatever launch period hump they were looking for. There are plenty of authors that I spent HB dollars for when I was reading DTB and I would go over (the arbitrary) $9.99 price point.
But you all are right.  The consequences of this are:
1. Ebookers will wait and read something else.  Publishers may have to wait months to get the sale. And sometimes early reviews show the book is crap anyway.
2. Many ebookers will get an illegal copy elsewhere.  Example, the ease of getting Harry Potter and Under the Dome in ebooks right now
3. The library still awaits and that is just a lost sale, end of story.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I have to agree. If it's a book I REALLY want to read, it will either be the library or audible.com. There have been very few books I HAVE to have on release date. Even the books I have bought on the day of release have sat there unread on my kindle for a time. I have so many other books I can read, it's not as important to me anymore.


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## Avalon3 (Dec 3, 2008)

I have over 900 books on my K2.  I'm not a fast reader and can wait out the publisher's delay.  I won't pay more than $9.99 for a Kindle book.


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

I think the publishers are trying to "cling" to a business model that is rapidly becoming outdated--just like the demise of the CD market.  They will only save a few $$ in the short term.  It will be interesting to see if any of the publishers choose not to go along with the waiting period for ebooks and advertise that their ebooks are for immediate release along with the hardbacks.  Just my 4 cents worth.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

A lot of small publishers publish the ebook first and if sales are good, bring out a print version many months later. There have been a number of books that I've read and raved about and some of my friends are champing at the bit waiting for the print version. I like this model since it benefits me!

L


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## jaybird123 (Mar 10, 2009)

Too many other books out there for me to worry about this.  I refuse to buy paper books, they take up too much space and I hate having to use reading glasses.


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## JoFoReadin (Dec 1, 2009)

scarlet said:


> They haven't grasped that e-book readers (people, not machines) are just going to wait for the e-book release and a drop in price.


Actually, if it's a title I really want to read, all this will do is make me hunt down a scanned PDF version (which are often available BEFORE the hardbacks even hit the shelves, believe it or not) and load it onto my Kindle and the publisher will never see a dime.

It's funny that she blatantly states that they are doing it to "preserve the business". What she means is preserve the business-model. Bah...I was going to write a long post but I think I've already written this same thing on a forum somewhere back in 1999 about mp3s. Publishers would do well to go back and take a lesson from another industry.


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## luv4kitties (Aug 18, 2009)

One of the reasons that I got a Kindle was because I didn't want to buy more DTBs.  The DTBs were cluttering up my house.  They were everywhere (bookshelves, nightstand, out in the garage in boxes, in my closets, etc.).  If I dusted them, the stirred up dust made my allergies act up.  If I didn't dust them, they gathered dust, which made my allergies act up.  So, the publishers can just go ahead and delay the release of ebooks if that's what they want to do.  But, that will not make me buy their hardcovers.  I simply don't want more DTBs and I will not buy them just to get them sooner.  What will probably happen if I see a book and it's only available in hardcover is that I will simply forget to buy the ebook when it finally does come out.  I have a LOT of ebooks on my Kindle, just waiting to be read.  If a book I'm interested in is not in the format that I want, then I will just find a different book to read--there are plenty to choose from!  

So far as price, there are very few books that I would ever have been willing to buy at $9.99 (when I was buying DTBs) and I doubt that I will be buying many ebooks at that high of a price, either (I'll wait for lower prices).  Before the Kindle, I typically read books at the library.  When something wasn't available at the library, I bought paperback books (with the very rare exception and only when I could get an excellent price on a hardcover that I really, really wanted to read from one of my TWO favorite authors--and I was even willing to wait for paperback versions if the hardcover was too expensive) and I was always looking for the best prices.  I know the publishers are scared that people will start thinking that they won't pay more than $9.99 for a book, but, honestly, I was not really willing (rare exception) to pay even that much for a DTB before I got the Kindle.  Since the Kindle, I am actually buying more books instead of getting them from the library, so the publishers should be glad that I am now buying things that I would have just checked out at the library.  Honestly, I think the publishers are thinking about things all wrong.  Ebooks are not their enemies and I doubt that lower prices will hurt them.  Maybe more people would buy books (instead of not reading at all or using the library) if they didn't cost so much.


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## xianfox (Dec 7, 2009)

What the publishers are failing to realize is that Amazon is trying to make ebook purchases into impulse buys. Buy pricing the reader in the mid $200s they ensure that a high percentage of the purchasers will be able to afford to drop $10 on a book on whim.

Amazon would love nothing more than to sell ten million $10 copies of a book to viewers of Oprah before the interview with the author is even over, where the paper version might be expected to only sell a million $30 copies.

Publishers are worried on two fronts. First they worry that ebooks will cannibalize paper books sales. That would drive up costs of paper versions, especially troubling if the ebook versions are so much lower in eventually make paper publishing expensive or impossible. I doubt that's true in the short term, but long term remains to be seen.

Secondly, dovetailing on the previous point, their worried about their placement in the best sellers lists. Ever wonder how a book that isn't even out yet gets on the best seller list? Preorders from retailers expecting them to fly off the shelves. If the print sales are reduced by ebook sales, they risk their placement on those best seller lists. Even if Amazon pre-sells the ebook, pre-sales are limited only to those that will actually be sold upon release.

As it stands now, publishers can force a book onto the best sellers lists by dumping loads of them onto retailers (renting shelf space) and buying back unsold copies at the end should it not sell as well as they would have liked.

As far as pricing goes, hardcovers are where the money is made. I worked for a smaller publisher and didn't deal in the high volumes of best sellers, but I can assure you, even on small runs of 20k books, we didn't pay more than about $2.50 in physical manufacturing costs per hardcover, and $0.75 per trade paperback.

If a publisher prices a hardcover at $30, they are earning $15 of that from the retailer. If the retailer discounts it to $22.50, that's eating into the retailers cut, not the publisher who still gets their $15. That's much of the concern with Amazon at present. While the book is in hardcover on the best seller list, Amazon is selling it for $9.99 but paying the publisher that same $15. Everyone knows this can't continue forever. Will the public perception of value drop to $9.99 or less, or will the publishers be able to sell trophy books at $30 on sale for $22.50? Publishers are concerned about which will result in more sales? Retailers are worried about being cut out of the loop and closing brick & mortar stores. Authors are concerned about which method results in more readers. Consumers are concerned about price and selection.

I've spent over a decade in the industry and abhor the practices that I've seen. Publishers are ultimately worried about being squeezed out in the commoditization of books.

The winner(s)? Yet to be decided.... I know how I'd like to see it go and I have a pretty good feeling about how I think it will eventually go. Getting there is the hard part.

I'm eager to read Steve Jordan's new ebook _Why is This Hill So Steep_ to get an author's take on this.


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

@xianfox

Excellent post!!  Thanks for the inside info.


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## DailyLunatic (Aug 4, 2009)

Buggy Whips!!

They are not trying to make money so much as they are trying to protect the book printing machines and their distribution systems.

Why they don’t price both the p-book and e-book at cost + x$ profit is beyond me.  They’d end up making the same $$$ for the same # sales.  (Possibly end up making more sales due to being available in multiple formats.)  If they did things this way, why would they care which format I bought.  They end up with same $ per sale.

Sterling
92.5% Pure


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

luvmy4brats said:


> Even the books I have bought on the day of release have sat there unread on my kindle for a time. I have so many other books I can read, it's not as important to me anymore.


Well said.  When I run out of new releases, I jump back into the PD (or free book) section where I can either get them for free or less than $1. I don't have to go to the bookstore and buy an older (but still $7.99) paperback anymore.


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## Carld (Dec 2, 2009)

I think the die has been cast, and the genie is out of the bottle, or whatever metaphor you want to use. Amazon has already succeeded in setting $9.99 as the base price for new books. If anything, consumers are looking for discounts off that price and just won't accept anything much higher. Publishers will have to adapt, or they simply aren't going to survive, at least not in their current form. Shifting the ebook release date back isn't going to do much except reduce sales and disgruntle a whole lot of potential customers.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

whiterab said:


> ...
> In short, I'm not waiting on a publisher anymore. If it's not available for my Kindle right now, I'm going to download something else and not worry about it.


Bingo!


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have 14 pages of books on my Kindle, and 300+ more ready to purchase on my Amazon wishlist. They could wait five years to publish another e-book, and I probably still won't be caught up.


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## Paegan (Jul 20, 2009)

I have noticed one thing that I don't care for about numbers Kindle owners - their disproportionate feeling of entitlement.  All hell breaks loose if Amazon dares to sell a book above $9.99.  Or publishers dare to set their own publishing dates.  If you don't like the price - don't buy it.  If you purchased a Kindle or Nook expecting to spend less for an individual book, I think you purchased it for the wrong reason.  You should have gone to the local library to get one of their "free" cards.  I've always waited the 10 months to a year to get a paperback (I refuse to buy hardcover copies of what I call trash fiction - King, Grisham, Rice, etc) so waiting 4 months to get an eBook is no big deal.


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## Chris W (Aug 17, 2009)

Paegan said:


> I have noticed one thing that I don't care for about numbers Kindle owners - their disproportionate feeling of entitlement. All hell breaks loose if Amazon dares to sell a book above $9.99. Or publishers dare to set their own publishing dates. If you don't like the price - don't buy it.


You used entitlement in a derisive manner, but I'm happy and proud to say I have a feeling of entitlement. I'm entitled to read what I want, when I want, on the format I want, after the title is published. And I'm entitled to boycott publishers who disagree with my views. I'm forward thinking, in that I believe that publishers should embrace a model that doesn't lock them into costly printing and distribution models. But if they don't agree, I'm sure they'll wither away and die from lack of revenue, much like many of the newspapers of the world. Capitalism is a wonderful thing, I'm *entitled* to spend my money any way I see fit.


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## hackeynut (Dec 16, 2008)

Congratulations on increasing ebook piracy.  Morons.


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## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

Paegan said:


> I have noticed one thing that I don't care for about numbers Kindle owners - their disproportionate feeling of entitlement. All hell breaks loose if Amazon dares to sell a book above $9.99. Or publishers dare to set their own publishing dates. If you don't like the price - don't buy it. If you purchased a Kindle or Nook expecting to spend less for an individual book, I think you purchased it for the wrong reason. You should have gone to the local library to get one of their "free" cards. I've always waited the 10 months to a year to get a paperback (I refuse to buy hardcover copies of what I call trash fiction - King, Grisham, Rice, etc) so waiting 4 months to get an eBook is no big deal.


That's exactly what I said: if I disagree with the publisher, I don't spend the money on their books. And yes, I'm entitled to make my own purchasing decisions.


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## Chris W (Aug 17, 2009)

hackeynut said:


> Congratulations on increasing ebook piracy. Morons.


I remember when Napster first hit the scene. Many people were using it because they couldn't find a legal, convenient alternative to downloading music. Now that iTunes is the biggest music retailer, piracy has decreased dramatically. People are willing to pay for content, as long as it's appropriately priced and easy to get. This proves that the publishers haven't been paying attention to other media news for the past few years.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

hackeynut said:


> Congratulations on increasing ebook piracy. Morons.


You are talking to the publishers aren't you? Those folks that do not read kindelboards and become educated as to the consumers opinions


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## hackeynut (Dec 16, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> You are talking to the publishers aren't you? Those folks that do not read kindelboards and become educated as to the consumers opinions


Yes, just a general rant, not aimed at anyone here. People who have ebook readers by and large want to read on them. Thats why we spent money on them in the first place. But relegating ebook consumers to second class citizens they are begging to have their books pirated.

Look at Harry Potter, you think those books may sell a few ecopies if they were ever released? Until then I guess we'll just have to settle with them being the most widely pirated ebooks in history.

It is foolish.


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## Dankinia (Jun 20, 2009)

I love to read.  I always have.  My mother and I share that passion.  Between the 2 of us we have 7 large bookcases and more then 30 rubbermaid boxes of books we just can't bring ourselves to part with.  

There were several reasons I bought the Kindle:  (1) no more DTB's clutering up the house; (2) easier to travel with when I take trips; (3) ease of use; and (4) ability to get the books I want the day of release without having to go to the store.  Lower prices were just a bonus point for me.

There are only a few authors I ever bought in hardback because I just could not wait for the paperback version to be released and when I did buy them I got them at places like Wal-Mart that discounts hardbacks by about 40% because I refused to pay $30 for a book.  With my Kindle, I would pre-order them and they would be available the day of the release so I could start reading in that week.  I have not bought a DTB for myself since I got the Kindle.  My mother is debating getting one for herself after Christmas so their will be no more DTB's in my house other then the ones we buy for my nieces and nephews to read when they stay with us.  

That being said, all this delay does is cause the publisher to wait another 4 months to get my money and really annoy the ebook community as a whole.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Congrats to the $9.99 boycotters.  You've got your wish, and popular fiction will cost no more than $9.99.  You just may not get it as soon as you want it.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm probably the odd man out on this, but I understand why they're doing it, and it doesn't bother me. For years I had no problem waiting for the paperback version of books to come out, I don't see why I will have a problem waiting for the ebook version. 

My POV is likely skewed by the fact that paying my bills is dependent on a royalty base and I do earn more per book off a print version...but still, 4 months is not a long time, and readers of PBs wait a lot longer...


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## pawsplus (Mar 31, 2009)

Heck, there's no book out there I can't wait a few months for.  They're shooting themselves in the foot!  How silly.


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## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

In addition, it's clear publishers aren't in it for our collective literary enrichment.

See, if they would embrace the ebook, they could cut their printing costs. Lower costs could very well equal more authors getting published (by "big" houses), and therefore more books for all.

I sort of understand the delay between hardback and ebook/paperback, but I think 4 months is ridiculous.

I'm really tempted to boycott, not out of a sense of entitlement, but just because I think it's a dumb move. ereader devices aren't *so* popular yet that you can afford to alienate any of them. 

I really don't understand the "content industries'" abject fear of digital delivery. It's been proven over and over again that consumers are happier, pirate less and publishers make *more* money when you take physical manufacturing and distribution out of the equation.

Sigh.


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## osnova (Oct 20, 2009)

> An Amazon spokesman said, "Authors get the most publicity at launch and need to strike while the iron is hot. If readers can't get their preferred format at that moment, they may buy a different book or just not buy a book at all."


I agree with the spokesman here. The e-readers are getting all the buzz now. There could be a promotional synergy for releasing books on the new and "hot" platform (Kindle, Nook, etc.) even for those people who do not own an electronic reader.

If they release the book electronically months later, the train will have left the station. We will be reading something else by that time.


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## Ephany (Mar 9, 2009)

andy_in_virginia said:


> OK, I don't get the problem with this business model, and I don't get why anyone would talk about boycotting publishers or authors because of it. Personally, I can wait for a few months before I need to have a new book in my possession - I think in the last couple of years I have only purchased one book on the day it was published - but I have definitely picked up many new movies on the day they were released on DVD.
> 
> Does anyone ever talk about boycotting a particular movie studio or director because the latest big movie takes three months or more to come out on DVD? I saw the Star Trek movie at the theater back in July (I think, it was so long ago), but had to wait until last week for the DVD to go on sale. Did any 'Twilight' fans out there boycott the movie because they couldn't go straight from the theater to Best Buy and pick up a copy of the movie?


For me, going to the theater is a splurge and a completely different experience than buying the dvd. I'd personally compare this model to the studios saying that they were going to release the blu-ray version now, and the regular dvd in three months. I still wouldn't buy the blu-ray and generally I'd forget about purchasing the dvd so they'd lose all of my money.



KindleUndecided said:


> One of the reasons that I got a Kindle was because I didn't want to buy more DTBs. The DTBs were cluttering up my house. They were everywhere (bookshelves, nightstand, out in the garage in boxes, in my closets, etc.). If I dusted them, the stirred up dust made my allergies act up. If I didn't dust them, they gathered dust, which made my allergies act up. So, the publishers can just go ahead and delay the release of ebooks if that's what they want to do. But, that will not make me buy their hardcovers. I simply don't want more DTBs and I will not buy them just to get them sooner. What will probably happen if I see a book and it's only available in hardcover is that I will simply forget to buy the ebook when it finally does come out. I have a LOT of ebooks on my Kindle, just waiting to be read. If a book I'm interested in is not in the format that I want, then I will just find a different book to read--there are plenty to choose from!
> 
> So far as price, there are very few books that I would ever have been willing to buy at $9.99 (when I was buying DTBs) and I doubt that I will be buying many ebooks at that high of a price, either (I'll wait for lower prices). Before the Kindle, I typically read books at the library. When something wasn't available at the library, I bought paperback books (with the very rare exception and only when I could get an excellent price on a hardcover that I really, really wanted to read from one of my TWO favorite authors--and I was even willing to wait for paperback versions if the hardcover was too expensive) and I was always looking for the best prices. I know the publishers are scared that people will start thinking that they won't pay more than $9.99 for a book, but, honestly, I was not really willing (rare exception) to pay even that much for a DTB before I got the Kindle. Since the Kindle, I am actually buying more books instead of getting them from the library, so the publishers should be glad that I am now buying things that I would have just checked out at the library. Honestly, I think the publishers are thinking about things all wrong. Ebooks are not their enemies and I doubt that lower prices will hurt them. Maybe more people would buy books (instead of not reading at all or using the library) if they didn't cost so much.


I agree. When I did buy DTBs in hardback it was always with a coupon that generally brought the price down to $10-$15. I've never bought a hardback at retail price, and often waited for the paperback. This new idea pretty much ensures that I'll buy fewer copies of their books because the ability to impulse buy when it's first released will be gone. Unless it's one of my favorite authors or I put it in my wishlist, I'll probably forget all about it by the time it's available in ebook form.


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## rho (Feb 12, 2009)

I rarely bought the Hard Cover of Books because they are painful for me to hold - which brings up another whole complaint for me - I want the books at the same time because ...* I feel they are discriminating against people who have disabilities*

Not to mention by the time the e-book comes out I may have heard enough negatives about it to not really want it when I would probably have bought it the day it came out on e-book if it happened the same day as the the Hard Cover version --


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

Ephany said:


> For me, going to the theater is a splurge and a completely different experience than buying the dvd. I'd personally compare this model to the studios saying that they were going to release the blu-ray version now, and the regular dvd in three months. I still wouldn't buy the blu-ray and generally I'd forget about purchasing the dvd so they'd lose all of my money.


Excellent analogy, I agree 100%. I really can't believe these publishers can't see the writing on the wall and realize that they are much better off embracing the newest technologies and finding new and exciting ways to profit from them!


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## Badandy (Dec 4, 2008)

For anyone who cares, I sent this to Simon and Schuster's contact us email (http://www.simonandschuster.com/about/contact_us)

I stole some wording from earlier in this post and added some of my own. It took me about 5 minutes so it probably has a lot of typos but I just wanted to shoot it off quickly so I wouldn't forget. Maybe it might be worth doing something like this?

""I recently heard about your plans to delay the release of ebooks until 4 months after the hardcovers are released because of the margin hit you guys take on ebooks. I understand business, and I know at least why you made this decision, but I think it's the wrong one for a couple reasons:

Not only can the release of ebooks be faster and less capital intensive than the hardcover (no production cost, few illustrations, etc..), you're basically releasing something in one format and waiting to release it in another. While this is perfectly legal and, I believe, completely ethical, I think it's a bad business decision. Similar to how the record and movie industries are seeing declining revenues in the face of online piracy, so too will the book publishing industry until you change your business model proactively before consumers change it for you. Release ebooks at the same time as hardcovers or you're going to have to deal with a lot of piracy. For example, very few of your customers will buy both the hardcover and ebook versions of a particular book. By holding back content that is already ready for electronic publication for four months you're doing several things: you're telling them they don't matter as much as customers; you're making it easier to justify online piracy since a given book isn't available even if they would like to buy it; you're setting yourself up very poorly for what the book industry business model is going to evolve into.

I've made a personal decision that I won't buy any version of a book from a publisher or author who refuses to simultaneously release e-versions of their titles. I'll be using my library card to read any of these titles, and keeping my hard earned money away from publishers who won't accept that their business model is changing. I'll also be sending in complaints to the authors and publishers informing them of my decision.

I hope you read this and understand that it's not hate mail, just some constructive criticism from a former buyer of the ebook versions of your books.""


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## chevauchee (Mar 29, 2009)

I certainly wish the publishers the best of luck, but this isn't going to encourage me to buy their books. After four months, I'm likely to forget that I want a particular book.


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## Chris W (Aug 17, 2009)

People have tried to compare the movie model to book publishing. First movies show up in the theater, then on DVD, finally on cable or broadcast television. We shouldn't complain that a DVD isn't available the day a movie is released in the theater, because that's the way it's always been done, right?
Well, recently, movies have been made available on Video on Demand *before* they've been released in the theater. Not every movie certainly, it's still somewhat of an experiment. And I would be the first to agree, seeing certain movies, such as Star Trek, are completely different experiences. I would be willing to pay more for those experiences but I usually skip the theater for titles that aren't visually extravagant. But movie studios are also fretting over distribution. DVD sales are plummeting, they aren't making that much on Blu Rays, they don't like Red Box, etc. If possible, I stream movies through Netflix Watch Instantly on my TiVo, similar to how I consume books. The future is coming for all media, the content producers just have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century business models.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

Jason Pinter just posted this on twitter:



> I'm not against publishers delaying ebook releases, but doesn't it send a bad message to their authors whose ebooks aren't delayed?


I replied to his post:



> When I read a novel, it WILL be on my Kindle. If publishers choose to make me wait 4 months, I may buy it then-if I remember...


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

This is the future I see for ebooks/publishing.

Amazon is going to start buying up publishing house/author contracts and eventually dump the legacy print divisions of these business combined with signing publishing contracts with current and up and coming authors.

The Amazon publishing divisions will offer all the editing/proofreading that traditional publishers now do as well as the marketing and lets face it Amazon is in a unique position to market particular books to it's customers based on their buying habits.

The focus will be on ebooks, but Amazon will maintain a print on demand service for those wanting DTBs with no excess inventory and  warehousing problems with too big of print runs.

See Simon & Schuster is finished, they just don't know it yet.


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## Merlin_AZ (Dec 10, 2009)

Maybe I'm too stupid to understand.
Do they really think those of us with ereaders will buy the hard-backs first because of a 4 month delay of the digital version?
Wouldn't you think they'd want their money now up front instead?
What a bunch of morons.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't remember the thread, but there was a discussion about Amazon and Sony confirming that people do read more after buying e-rearders.  When an unnamed publishing house exec was asked about that, his response was that he didn't believe it, because people won't read more just because they can see it on a little screen.    

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


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## andy_in_virginia (Dec 3, 2009)

ElaineOK said:


> I don't remember the thread, but there was a discussion about Amazon and Sony confirming that people do read more after buying e-rearders. When an unnamed publishing house exec was asked about that, his response was that he didn't believe it, because people won't read more just because they can see it on a little screen.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, Oklahoma


That's probably a good indicator of the way some (I won't say all) publishing execs think.

Excuse me Mr. executive, its not _just_ because people will read more because they can see it on a little screen, but it has a whole lot to do with the ease of instant delivery of the book I want, the fact I can carry not one but 20 books in my back pack, have the London Daily Telegraph delivered to my little screen every morning, search the book I'm reading if I want to remember what one character said three chapters ago, oh, and (generally speaking) I get the book for around $9


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## Flechette (Nov 6, 2009)

I think if you do boycott a book or publisher - be sure to drop said publisher and author a note letting them know you did so and why.


I'm not happy about this decision, but I can't say for sure I will boycott the ebook publication -  thing is I was only paying $10 a hardback book via BOMC2 - so really whats the difference?


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

This is much ado about nothing. If this delay in some titles will make publishers feel better about ebooks, then in the long run it will be to the benefit everybody who reads ebooks to just go along and sit on the bench quietly reading on our Kindles for the time being. The publishers are having a hissy fit about the changes in their business model, so let them rant and rave and delay for now, and let the panic burn itself out.

And frankly, I can't think of any book or author I obsoletely positively have to read within the first four months of release. Sure, I often buy new books, but I often don't even read them right away. If it is a book I want in hardback, I'll buy it, otherwise waiting isn't going cause me any grief.

Bans, boycotts, or other acts protest are too tiresome and troublesome, and will probably only effect your own sense of purpose. I've got better things to do than work myself into a lather over this issue.



Chris W said:


> I'll be using my library card to read any of these titles


Since the delay on books in question are the top 35 titles, my guess is that, unless you're on top of your game and sign up quickly, the library queue might be three to four months or longer.


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## akpak (Mar 5, 2009)

Boycott is perhaps too strong a word... I think what we're saying is "vote with our wallets." ie, S&S won't be getting our money, since we want the ebooks and they clearly don't want to provide them.

I did borrow Badandy's email up there and sent it along to S&S. I really think they're making a huge mistake, and don't mind letting them know how it would affect my purchases of their books.


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## Neekeebee (Jan 10, 2009)

Don't the publishers and authors realize that this move antagonizes the very group that reads/buys/talks up books the most?  Mostly, it's the avid readers who are buying the eReaders.  And how many of us have read a book on our Kindles and then went on to recommend it to a friend that didn't have an eReader, or then purchased a DTB version as a gift for somebody? 

But I have to say, this is a fascinating article and thread to read, and I'm excited to be witnessing every step of the birth of the ebook format (and the labor/growing pains).

N


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## Richard in W.Orange (Nov 24, 2009)

Some thoughts...

I've been jobless a year, now, strangely enough, in my family (since they've been keeping me afloat) buying a BOOK has always been considered a good thing and something you can do even if you don't have income (Thanks Ann and Dad for keeping me reading). That said, personal finance kicks in and excepting about 4 authors, I don't buy much in Hard-bound. Those 4 Authors, well, I have complete works, first printing, which, should I live long enough, may be worth something to my neices and nephew on my death. Not that I'm counting on it. (I will, after all, be dead.)

As with all of my gene pool (its weird really it is) I have have bookcases, 2 or 3 deep with paperbacks. All the Stephen King fits on about 2' of shelf when its 3 deep  ... and those books are well loved, the bindings in some cases are falling apart (jumbo binder clips to the rescue).

Now, I have a Kindle, a tough choice (really I am out of work) but I had rewards points, I couldn't actually pay a "real" bill with them, so after much thinking I got my DX (it may be better when I'm working again (job secured this week for 1/1) and I've bought more books (as it were) since getting it than I did all year! So, hmm, not giving me an e-book version early in the cycle, that's probably NOT a good thing.

Many have said it, I "might" remember to get it when it arrives in e-format, but maybe not, and since I'll be back at work, the odds get lower. I'll count on the books Ann buys since my Kindle lives on her account and we have similar taste.

No comparrison to movies. I have only rarely felt the need to goto a movie theatre to see anything. But then again, I have a THX living room and If I need a "really big" picture experience, a 9' wide screen I can bring down with the HD projector (usually its just a 58" Plasma). My *big* splurges this month were the new Harry Potter and Angles and Demons DVDs ... and felt no urge to put u the 9' for either. Hmmm And the 'studios' have gotten that right with BluRay... HP, A&D, StarTrek all came with not only the BD but also DVD and Digital versions in one package!!! for what I normally pay for a DVD or BD pricing. So if we make the 'big jump' to publishing, if that Hardbound costs 19.99 AND I get the Kindle version with it) then maybe they CAN hold of 'on its own' ebook release for a couple of months. .... Maybe ....

So the final word here is...COSTCO ... I've never paid the "bookstore" price and I don't pay the retail price on a DVD either!


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## Saylorgirl (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't like a delay one bit!!  I have always bought my hardbacks when they have been release (now e-books).  I have always found if I waited until the paperbook came out I lost my interest!  If they delay by four months I will not purchase the hardback and chances are very slim I will buy the e-book four months later!  Always a new book to get!  I think it will hurt the publishers more than helping them.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Saylorgirl, CONGRATS on 100 posts!!


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## The Atomic Bookworm (Jul 20, 2009)

This "strategy" is going to last as long as the authors (the content creators) allow it to happen.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I already have a wish list full of books I'm waiting for the ebook release.  I can wait.  I've really changed my book purchasing habits and about 95% of everything I read are ebooks.  If it's not available as an ebook, I'm not as interested in it.  I've also changed my reading profile and I'm reading more books from many different genres and from many independent authors and sites.

I do think the publishers are hurting themselves in the long run.  With the number of readers wrapped under trees this year, the ebook reader base is set to expand dramatically.  If their habits change like mine, a large portion of these new ebook readers will also discover independents, etc. and will not be hurting for reading material if the new Must-Have-Insert-Celebrity-Name-Here book isn't available in ebook form.

It appears to me that Publishing execs see the general population in the same light many politicians and many other industry execs see us - as unthinking sheep following the herd and doing as we're told.  As soon as the release the next Big-Name-Book we won't be able to contain ourselves and have to run out and wait in line overnight to get it.  

They just need to show us the latest bright sparkly object and we'll do anything to get it.  (While there may be an element of truth in there, but that's not ALL we are)  Not every novel is anticipated in a Harry Potter Feeding Frenzy just like not every movie is Star Wars Episode 1.


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## Saylorgirl (Mar 20, 2009)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Saylorgirl, CONGRATS on 100 posts!!


Thank you! I like my new star!!


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> It appears to me that Publishing execs see the general population in the same light many politicians and many other industry execs see us - as unthinking sheep following the herd and doing as we're told. As soon as the release the next Big-Name-Book we won't be able to contain ourselves and have to run out and wait in line overnight to get it.
> 
> They just need to show us the latest bright sparkly object and we'll do anything to get it. (While there may be an element of truth in there, but that's not ALL we are) Not every novel is anticipated in a Harry Potter Feeding Frenzy just like not every movie is Star Wars Episode 1.


Dittos to that. Also, I think (no proof for my comment) that they think that ereaders are just a fad that will pass. If they see a chance to make a buck from ebooks, they will put some on the market. Some time down the road, the publishers will have to take a more in-depth look at the future of mass market dtbs. They are faced with the doctrine of sunk cost which we have all faced in our personal lives. We paid $600 for our first vcr and it was hard to just toss it when it was still good. Technology marches on.


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## DailyLunatic (Aug 4, 2009)

Thumper said:


> My POV is likely skewed by the fact that paying my bills is dependent on a royalty base and I do earn more per book off a print version...


Out of curiosity, what is the rational for paying the author more for a p-book, than an e-book?

Sterling
92.5% Pure


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## kevindorsey (Mar 4, 2009)

Shastastan said:


> Dittos to that. Also, I think (no proof for my comment) that they think that ereaders are just a fad that will pass. If they see a chance to make a buck from ebooks, they will put some on the market. Some time down the road, the publishers will have to take a more in-depth look at the future of mass market dtbs. They are faced with the doctrine of sunk cost which we have all faced in our personal lives. We paid $600 for our first vcr and it was hard to just toss it when it was still good. Technology marches on.


Valid points that I agree with.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

DailyLunatic said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the rational for paying the author more for a p-book, than an e-book?


The royalty margin is simply larger (as is the profit margin) on a print book; 12% of a $25 hardback or $13 paperback is simply more than a sub $5 ebook (for the author.) Cluttering it further is the declining scale on royalty, which often gives a higher royalty to a HB, a percentage or two less for a PB, and 5-6% on ebooks.

The difference for me, personally, is I'll make $3 on a paperback sale, but 70 cents on an ebook sale. Since ebook readers are still the minority, the bulk of my income is from print; as people become more comfortable with devices like the kindle, the Nook, and Sony's eReader there will undoubtedly be a shift in format sales, but that's liable to be a good 5 years out. Until then, I won't be surprised if more publishers don't go the same route as S&S.

On the publisher's side, it's all about money, and right now print is where the money is. It doesn't matter how much we love our Kindles; we are not the source of profits. Yet.


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

Chris W said:


> I remember when Napster first hit the scene. Many people were using it because they couldn't find a legal, convenient alternative to downloading music. Now that iTunes is the biggest music retailer, piracy has decreased dramatically. People are willing to pay for content, as long as it's appropriately priced and easy to get. This proves that the publishers haven't been paying attention to other media news for the past few years.


Exactly. I used to d/l music from Napster a lot, but now that iTunes has so much, I use it exclusively.

I have arthritis in my right hand that actually makes holding a DTB and turning pages painful. I'll buy the ebook legally if I can, but if the publisher/author decides not to sell an ebook version, I'll get it wherever I can. If I absolutely can't wait for the ebook, I'll get if free at the library. Either way, I'm not buying DTB's.

The book industry needs to learn from the music industry. As technology changes, everything evolves. You can either move along or get run over.


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

> Don't the publishers and authors realize that this move antagonizes the very group that reads/buys/talks up books the most? Mostly, it's the avid readers who are buying the eReaders.


Excellent point!



> The difference for me, personally, is I'll make $3 on a paperback sale, but 70 cents on an ebook sale.


I don't understand why authors make less on ebooks, or why ebooks can cost the same as DTB's. Why wouldn't any book sell for cost + profit?


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

State your opinion in Windwalker's survey!

http://thekindlenationblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/participate-in-this-new-survey-to-help.html


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## Sporadic (May 1, 2009)

Jesslyn said:


> State your opinion in Windwalker's survey!
> 
> http://thekindlenationblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/participate-in-this-new-survey-to-help.html


Yeah, there is no way I'm putting my Kindle's serial number and Kindle's FCC ID Number in so I can take your survey.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Sporadic said:


> Yeah, there is no way I'm putting my Kindle's serial number and Kindle's FCC ID Number in so I can take your survey.


I am a little uncomfortable with that as well.... I suppose they do it to verify that you do, indeed, own a Kindle, but still.....


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

This bone-headed move almost makes me glad I'm not with a big publisher. 

The publishing industry just seems so short-sighted. Instead of looking at the burgeoning popularity of eBooks as a menace, why not look at it as a win-win opportunity? (I know it sounds cliche, but it's true here.) Removing the book printing and shipping costs could allow publishers to charge less for their books (readers win) while still making more profits. They can split the difference in cost savings. Publishers, authors, and readers could all do better. The only losers would be the printing and shipping companies.

Now, what I COULD understand as a business model is the idea of charging higher prices for "new releases," since some people will pay more for something just available (this is true of DVDs, books, clothes, purses, iPhones, etc.). So why not go to a model of: Hardcover ($25) and "New Release" eBook (for about half the hardcover price) come out, then later when the paperback comes out under $10, the eBook is reduced to about half that.

It's a win-win... publishers can still make their money on new releases, but eBooks can still cost roughly half as much as whatever print counterpart is available. It seems like a much more fair pricing model.

Part of the problem is that publishers aren't really charging those very high prices for hardcovers because the book costs that much more to print (it's a few bucks more), but they're just baking in a very high "new release" profit margin. With eBooks, they don't have the _illusion_ of "You're getting something better (a hardcover)," and they'd have to admit they're just gouging early adopters.

If they were smart, they would find a way to bundle extra _content_ (pics, links, author interviews, etc.) into the "New Release" editions instead of just focusing on the format of the printed book as the extra "value."


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## Windwalker (Nov 2, 2008)

Jesslyn said:


> State your opinion in Windwalker's survey!
> 
> http://thekindlenationblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/participate-in-this-new-survey-to-help.html


Just wanted to make clear, Jesslyn, that it is not my survey or a Kindle Nation survey. It is being conducted by a publisher's research group called SimbaInformation , and I was just encouraging Kindle owners to participate. No Kindle Nation Daily survey will ever ask for serial numbers or any such thing!

Cheers,
Steve Windwalker
http://thekindlenationblog.blogspot.com/


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

This did not occur to me.  It came up in a conversation last night, I just thought I would pass it on.

The real creative talents at the publishing houses are the editors.  Eventually, the editors will leave (either willingly or otherwise).  They will still want to edit books.  They will have the ability to create a brand for ebooks much like a publishing house imprint that effectively says that the book meets their standards -- whatever those are.  Think about it, if you buy a Harlequin Romance you have a certain set of expectations that are differnt from what you expect from a DAW science fiction book.  The really successful ones will be the ones who don't just do decent editing but who do the best marketing and promotion.  

All of a sudden you have an entirely online publishing house run by and for people who love books.  Right now lots of authors are heading out on their own, but like most of the rest of us, being good at what you do is not the same thing as being good at promoting what you do.  Then, of course, there is the whole time factor.  

If this is the future, I say bring it on.

Elaine 
Norman, Oklahoma


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

ElaineOK said:


> The real creative talents at the publishing houses are the editors. Eventually, the editors will leave (either willingly or otherwise). They will still want to edit books. They will have the ability to create a brand for ebooks much like a publishing house imprint that effectively says that the book meets their standards -- whatever those are.


You prompted me to go get a paperback book from my collection, and dig out the following quote:

_"But what of publishing? McCarthy sees the end of the publishing business as we know it....Few publishers own printing plants; most hire that done. What publishers provide is editorial services and distribution. The latter function will largely vanish; the information utility does that job. There remain editorial services. With such a plethora of books available as described above--After all, the only cost involved in publishing a book will be to have it typed, plus a nominal fee to the information utility for storing it--Critics and editors will probably grow in importance. "Recommended and edited by Jim Baen" or "A Frederick Pohl Selection" would take on new significance..."_

What's interesting about the above quote is that it is in a book called "A Step Farther Out" by Jerry Pournelle, my copy was from the first printing in August, *1980*, and I read it at that time. The selection quoted is from pages 185 and 186. Computerish folk may recognize Jerry Pournelle as the writer of a well-respected computer technology column in BYTE magazine, as well as a science fiction writer.

I'd definitely agree that SOMEONE (call it an editor or whatever you like) is going to be very important to help the rest of us separate wheat from chaff. The place we are arriving at has been forecast for a long time, and it appears the day may be here.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

Wow, what a great "blast from the past" quote... looks absolutely prophetic now!


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## funkyj (Nov 26, 2009)

Doesn't bother me a bit.  I can wait 4 months.  

Of course the natural solution is to offer the early release e-book at a premium price that later drops to the $9.99 price objected to by the publisher.  What ever though, I can't keep up with my reading as it is -- I certainly don't need any new book immediately.


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## rho (Feb 12, 2009)

I did the survey but in the section for the serial number - I wrote

Iownakindlebutnotgivingouttheserialnumberthough

they probably will discount it but no way am I giving that info out.  

it did go thru that way ...  I figure maybe they will have a section to put it in and still record the info...I doubt it but it was worth a try


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

Sporadic said:


> Yeah, there is no way I'm putting my Kindle's serial number and Kindle's FCC ID Number in so I can take your survey.


Ditto


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

I hate to say this, but we have been outsmarted and out rhymed.

http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/withold-my-ebook-no-no-no/

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


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## Selcien (Oct 31, 2008)

It doesn't bother me at all as I'm already overwhelmed with all of the choices that I have, does show how clueless they are though.


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## rho (Feb 12, 2009)

ElaineOK said:


> I hate to say this, but we have been outsmarted and out rhymed.
> 
> http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/withold-my-ebook-no-no-no/


oh that is FABULOUS! I wish I were that talented --


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

I wasn't going to read it, but I did and it's pretty clever.  I'm sure there will be some that are so ticked that they go for the pirated books, too.


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## auntmarge (Dec 4, 2008)

I *never *bought new fiction until I got a Kindle, but I've spent a bundle since. Maybe I should be happy I'll be spending less now.


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## Masonity (Oct 20, 2009)

Thumper said:


> The royalty margin is simply larger (as is the profit margin) on a print book; 12% of a $25 hardback or $13 paperback is simply more than a sub $5 ebook (for the author.) Cluttering it further is the declining scale on royalty, which often gives a higher royalty to a HB, a percentage or two less for a PB, and 5-6% on ebooks.


There are two problems here.

Firstly, why $5 for an ebook? If the paperback is going for $13, surely a $9.99 ebook price would be far more conductive to keeping your income intact.

Secondly, with reduced costs compared to book versions, why are you accepting smaller commissions?


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## Varin (May 12, 2009)

I found this poem here, by SB Sarah; http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/withold-my-ebook-no-no-no/

I thought it was great and it spoke for many on this issue!
_____

Do you like this hardcover book?
You should buy it! Look look look!

I do not like a hardback book
I will not read it, not that book.
I want to read it, yes, I do,
but not that hardback, no, thank you.

Will you buy it here, or there?
You can buy it anywhere!
This hardback book is just for you.
The only kind we offer you.

I will not buy it, here or there.
I will not buy it anywhere.
I do not want a hardback book.
I want to buy a digital book.

Would you buy it in a store?
If you buy one, will you buy more?
You can buy it here, or there.
You can buy it anywhere!

We only have this hardback book.
There are no others, if you look.
This hardback paper is for you,
and if you buy one, you can buy two!

I will not buy it in a store.
I will not buy one, two, or more.
I will not buy it here, or there.
I will not buy it anywhere.

I will not buy a single one.
Our transaction might be done.
I do not want your hardback book.
I want to read my digi-book.

We do not sell digital books.
We only sell the hardback books.
If you want e, you have to wait.
Until the hardback sales abate.
This digital is just a fad,
and in our viewpoint, very bad.
The only books are ones like these:
Buy in hardback, won't you please?

I will not buy them, don't you know?
This is why your profits blow!
I want to read your books, right now!
I want to read them anyhow!

I want to put them on a Kindle,
or Nook or Sony, and not be swindled.
I will not buy a hardback book,
not now, not later, you backwards crook.

Your clueless thinking blows my mind.
E-sales are climbing! Are you blind?!
See this finger, nice and high?
You can kiss my sale goodbye.

I'll go online and find my book,
scanned page by page by pirate crook,
and you have lost all sales from me,
both now and in the future. See,
I do not want your hardback book.
I want to read my digital book.

What's this I see? No books for me?
You withhold the ones I want from me?
Well, then. To publishing I say,"F U.
I'll go find something else to do."


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## Shastastan (Oct 28, 2009)

In his blog (I Love My Kindle), Calvin Bufo wrote a comprehensive article about this issue.  I subscribe, but I think that you can read it free.  do a Google search.


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## lynninva (Feb 7, 2009)

According to NY Times article, some publishers now maintain that they own the e-book rights to older books that did not specifically include electronic rights in the initial contracts. They are fighting with authors & other rights' holders who believe that they can get higher royalties by using a different firm to release the e-book.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/business/media/13ebooks.html

So, on the one hand, they don't want to make new releases available to us. But, on the other hand, they see the growing potential of e-book sales & want to assert their claim to the electronic rights to the backlist books.


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## chevauchee (Mar 29, 2009)

That's lousy. I'm not in publishing, but my understanding of contracts is that you only own the rights given to you by the contract. Trying to assert ownership of ebook rights when no such agreement was made is just underhanded.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

lynninva said:


> So, on the one hand, they don't want to make new releases available to us. But, on the other hand, they see the growing potential of e-book sales & want to assert their claim to the electronic rights to the backlist books.


On every hand, they want to make money. They think they will make more money on the hardcovers if they delay the e-book, and they want to sell the e-books of the older stuff to get that money also instead of someone else getting it.


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## geneven (Jul 30, 2009)

I wonder if  these publishers realize they could do the exact same thing without restricting Kindle sales by charging outrageous hardcover prices for the Kindle version for a defined period of time, then switching over, hopefully to the $9.99 price or lower. This would allow users to waste money and get books faster on their Kindles and still maintain the price differential while the book is being distributed at first.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

geneven said:


> I wonder if these publishers realize they could do the exact same thing without restricting Kindle sales by charging outrageous hardcover prices for the Kindle version for a defined period of time, then switching over, hopefully to the $9.99 price or lower. This would allow users to waste money and get books faster on their Kindles and still maintain the price differential while the book is being distributed at first.


That hasn't seemed to work out for them so far. So they're trying something different.


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## r0b0d0c (Feb 16, 2009)

Shastastan said:


> In his blog (I Love My Kindle), Calvin Bufo wrote a comprehensive article about this issue. I subscribe, but I think that you can read it free. do a Google search.


I enjoy his blog, also - it's at: http://ilmk.wordpress.com/

Scroll down to "A staggering strategy" from today, 12/12 - it's well thought out, and a strategy that publishers would be wise to take, instead of denying ebook buyers for months after a hardcover's release.

Calvin Bufo is also the wise sage on Amazon discussion pages on Kindle topics - wish he'd join kboards.com! (NOT that we don't already have lots of those here!)


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## salaniz (Oct 6, 2009)

I have to say I'm one of those spur of the moment buyers provided the price is within my budget.  I have no problem paying more than $9.99 if it's a book I really want.  My issue is that I want it "now" and I want it in digital format.  I rarely buy any book in DTB form since I bought my K1.  If I have to wait, I tend to lose interest and then forget about it altogether.  As it stands, instead of getting my money at the time of initial release, the publishers are likely to lose my money completely since I can't get the book in digital format.

Judging by the list of authors that are with S&S (from the S&S website), there are only a few that my husband and I read - Baldacci, Sandford, Patterson.  A couple of them are ones that we would have purchased in hardback pre-Kindle.  However, since we both have Kindles, their new releases have all been purchased in digital format.

I can't say for sure that we wouldn't buy those particular authors once they are released in digital format, but I think it's likely that we'll have to make an effort to keep checking back.  Even then, it's likely that some will get missed.


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## kevindorsey (Mar 4, 2009)

r0b0d0c said:


> I enjoy his blog, also - it's at: http://ilmk.wordpress.com/
> 
> Scroll down to "A staggering strategy" from today, 12/12 - it's well thought out, and a strategy that publishers would be wise to take, instead of denying ebook buyers for months after a hardcover's release.
> 
> Calvin Bufo is also the wise sage on Amazon discussion pages on Kindle topics - wish he'd join kboards.com! (NOT that we don't already have lots of those here!)


Blog loooks interesting, thanks.


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## earthlydelites (Dec 12, 2009)

Chris W said:


> I've made a personal decision that I won't buy *any* version of a book from a publisher or author who refuses to simultaneously release e-versions of their titles. This sounds like a ridiculous decision by these companies, because e-book customers buy more titles than regular customers. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
> I'll be using my library card to read any of these titles, and keeping my hard earned money away from people who can't accept that their business model is changing. I'll also be sending in complaints to the authors and publishers informing them of my decision.


Absolutely. I'll be taking a similar stand. The sooner they wake up to themselves, the better.


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

And on the other side---http://www.teleread.org/2009/12/15/authors-guild-repudiates-random-house-ebook-rights-grab/


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Here's a quote from an article I just read on Ed Gorman's blog. It's an interview with Max Allan Collins, a prolific writer:

"Don't give up on books. Do not release books directly to the Kindles and Nooks (or whatever they're called) -- make the electronic delivery the paperback of the 21st century. Readers should have to wait six months or a year to read a new book in that fashion."

http://newimprovedgorman.blogspot.com/

Mike


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

jmiked said:


> Here's a quote from an article I just read on Ed Gorman's blog. It's an interview with Max Allan Collins, a prolific writer:
> 
> "Don't give up on books. Do not release books directly to the Kindles and Nooks (or whatever they're called) -- make the electronic delivery the paperback of the 21st century. Readers should have to wait six months or a year to read a new book in that fashion."
> 
> ...


Yeah, well, power to them. The book buying paradigm has changed, we e-readers are no longer willing to wait, we want it now and if we can't it builds up resentment.


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## ellesu (Feb 19, 2009)

Interesting discussion.  I spend much more on books since I bought my Kindle.  Before my Kindle, I did not purchase new hardbacks because 1.) I wasn't willing to pay the price, and, 2.) Even if I was willing to pay new hardback prices, I didn't have the room to store all the books I wanted to read.  So, as someone mentioned before, I'd wait for the paperback release, and often forget about it before that happened.

Since buying my Kindle, I find I am willing to spend $9.99 (and sometimes a bit more) for new releases.  So....if the publishers do decide to delay upcoming releases, it won't bother me.  I'll wait.  And in the meantime I'll be purchasing other books.


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## brainstorm (Dec 8, 2009)

I've read most, but not all of the posts in this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else said.

I don't see the publishers' decision to delay release of e-books as a way of sticking it to e-reader purchasers or getting e-book people to buy hard cover books. That's downright silly. They must know that ain't gonna happen.

I think the publishers are merely trying to _retain their current hardcover book purchasers_, who will become discouraged from being the first kids on the block with a new book at $27 when others with e-readers are getting it for $10. Those are the people they would like to see continue purchasing hardcover books and not defect to e-readers. I say let them have those four months of glory. It's no big deal.

As for the four-month delay....in my mind, there are far too many books out there to fret over waiting four months. I think most people don't feel that they're "waiting" anyway because they're too busy doing other things to read every new book they want within four months, especially when they're behind on previous books they've purchased but haven't gotten around to reading. My reading is staggered; what's new for you is the release of a new hardcover book, what's new for me is the release of a new paperback. A year from now, I'll be reading this author's new paperback. And if I gotta read a book as soon as it's released, I'll just go to the public library. Or get comfy in a Barnes and Noble store.

I don't think most book consumers are bleeding-edge consumers. A new book is anything written in the last couple of years as far as I'm concerned.

This is such a non-issue.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

jmiked said:


> Here's a quote from an article I just read on Ed Gorman's blog. It's an interview with Max Allan Collins, a prolific writer:
> 
> "Don't give up on books. Do not release books directly to the Kindles and Nooks (or whatever they're called) -- make the electronic delivery the paperback of the 21st century. Readers should have to wait six months or a year to read a new book in that fashion."
> 
> ...


I didn't go to the link but I thought this might be a tad tongue in cheek? Maybe I was wrong. Oh well, like it was said too many other books out there for me to worry about getting something I have to wait forever for, and then they will probably charge more than the good kindle price.


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## Flechette (Nov 6, 2009)

r0b0d0c said:


> I enjoy his blog, also - it's at: http://ilmk.wordpress.com/
> 
> Scroll down to "A staggering strategy" from today, 12/12 - it's well thought out, and a strategy that publishers would be wise to take, instead of denying ebook buyers for months after a hardcover's release.
> 
> Calvin Bufo is also the wise sage on Amazon discussion pages on Kindle topics - wish he'd join kboards.com! (NOT that we don't already have lots of those here!)


Just read this~

Awesome Idea!

Basically C.B. suggests to release the Hardback and E-book at the same time, and keep the pricing close ie HB $25, E-Bk $20 - at the usual discounts the HB would be about $15 and E-Bk $12ish. Then about 3 months later, drop the E-bk to $9.99 and 9 months after that release the Paperback and drop the Ebk price again.

Now this is a schedule I can get behind. C.B is right that some will pay the $12 andd some will wait for the $10 but it gives us a choice! I'm tempted to email several publishers a link to his blog--


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## Labrynth (Dec 31, 2009)

There are very few folks I buy hardcover of first of all.  In fact, Dean Koontz is the only author I buy as soon as the next one comes out.  I have every book he's ever published under his name and will continue to buy them.  But he's the only one off the top of my head.  Otherwise I either wait until I can stumble across it at WalMart for cheap, or wait for it to come out in paperback.

I'm with the people who aren't willing to pay more than 10 bucks for an eBook.  Like so many other people I've found a lot of books for less than 5 bucks and even for free.  It's not like there's not stuff out there to read.  So making me wait for a version and trying to force me to buy a hardcover leaves me rolling my eyes.

There are a lot of someones who didn't think this one thru.  And frankly, if they're so worried about sales, why haven't they boycotted libraries the way they seem to be doing ereaders?

*sigh*  And don't get me started on Harry Potter.  I love the books.  I read all 7 in a mere 4 weeks.  Twice.  And I'd gladly pay for them, yet again, in eBook format.  But Rowling refusing to release them leaves me with the same feeling I had when Metallica kept whining about all the money they were supposedly losing because of Napster.  Seems to me everyone else has done ok with it around, yet you guys act like you'll not be able to eat again for a week.  Whatever.


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## 3boysnagirl (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't know that I'll add much to this conversation other than to say I'm angry.

I am a hopeful author and I can't see not embracing all technology.

YES ebook prices are cheaper, but seriously, how much do they save in the manufacturing, distribution channels and etc.?  I can't see how the $9.99 price doesn't give them a huge profit margin?

I will admit I RARELY buy a hard cover, I just read too much, too quickly to be able to afford it.  Every once in a while I do, but not with any frequency.  Luckily most of my favorite authors are on Zondervan (Christian Publisher) so S&S doesn't affect me that much.


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