# How to care for introverts: a discussion



## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

I came across this picture on facebook:










I have mixed feelings about it. I would classify myself as an extroverted introvert... if that makes sense. I have introverted tendencies but I've learned to how to get over some of them in an effort to push myself or learn new things.

We live in a very extroverted society. But at the same time I feel like this list makes introversion sound like a handicap that should be worked around. Should introverts be pushed to be more like extroverts? Or should society learn to embrace this approach to life?


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

I am listening to a fascinating book right now by Susan Cain, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Won't Stop Talking. I think it's selling really well. It's very well researched and well written, full of relatable examples.

It also talks about how to parent an introvert, and how highly sensitive personalities are related to Introverts.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

hsuthard said:


> I am listening to a fascinating book right now by Susan Cain, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Won't Stop Talking. I think it's selling really well. It's very well researched and well written, full of relatable examples.
> 
> It also talks about how to parent an introvert, and how highly sensitive personalities are related to Introverts.


As a teacher, this is an interesting subject to me. For example, in that list many of those things are things that everyone wishes that they had. No one wants to be embarrassed in public, be interrupted or have no time to think.

Yes, some people will handle these things better than others. But what's important is that one learns _how_ to handle this stuff. I would apply the same standard to an extrovert that doesn't know how to keep their mouth shut, you know?


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

It's hugely irritating to me when people treat being introverted as something that must be cured. Shyness IMO is an issue, because it can interfere with ones ability to function. But being an introvert and being shy aren't necessarily the same thing. The best definition of an introvert and extrovert I've ever heard is that being around people makes an introvert tired, while it energizes an extrovert. And I think that pretty much describes it the core of it. _Time_ had a good (and largely positive) article on being introverted a couple of months ago.

I think most items on that list apply to everyone. Who wants to be interrupted or rushed, embarrassed in public or pushed to change their basic nature?


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

Pawz4me said:


> It's hugely irritating to me when people treat being introverted as something that must be cured. Shyness IMO is an issue, because it can interfere with ones ability to function. But being an introvert and being shy aren't necessarily the same thing. The best definition of an introvert and extrovert I've ever heard is that being around people makes an introvert tired, while it energizes an extrovert. And I think that pretty much describes it the core of it. _Time_ had a good (and largely positive) article on being introverted a couple of months ago.
> 
> I think most items on that list apply to everyone. Who wants to be interrupted or rushed, embarrassed in public or pushed to change their basic nature?


Exactly. I like that definition, too. It's very true. I can only make concerted social efforts for a few hours before feeling like I just want to go home and read a book.

While shyness and introversion are separate, I think both can be an issue. Stimulation and new experiences are crucial to a healthy individual. The brain must be worked just like every other part of your body. If someone is allowed to just stay in their own little comfort zone and never be pushed out of it from time to time it's not good.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

As a person who has been labeled as an extreme extrovert who happens to be very close friends with a cpl of introverts I don't see the original list as indicative of seeing my friends as disabled. At least I don't see them that way. If anything my introverted friends have taught me to be more sensitive to situations they may not be as comfortable with as I am and see it in their way. 
Example 1:
My friend saw something on private property she would have liked to take photos of close up. My response was, 'Well lets go knock on their door and I'll ask them if it's OK.' Her response was, 'Sheila, I know you would have no qualms doing that, but it would make me feel uncomfortable.' I respected that she didn't let me make her do something she would have felt weird about. (that last sentence seems wrong but I can't fix it now) 
Example 2: 
Another friend has a tendency to never EVER answer her phone. She hates phones. Once in a lighthearted moment I made a comment about people who don't answer their phone as being folks who 'pull a *insert friends name here*' and I saw the hurt look on her face. I felt awful about it as soon as it came out of my mouth. 
I wouldn't change being an extrovert for anything in the world. It doesn't mean that I can't respect introversion. Luckily my introverted friends seem to feel the same way about me


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

The book I'm listening to really shows introverts in quite a different light. Instead of describing their traits as "a lack of extroversion" in a sense, they point out their separate strengths. For example, here's a quote from a CNN article on the book:



> Many of us now work in offices without walls, with no respite from the noise and gaze of co-workers. And introverts are routinely passed over for leadership positions, even though the latest research by the management professor Adam Grant at Wharton shows that introverted leaders often deliver better results. They're better at letting proactive employees run with their creative ideas, while extroverts can unwittingly put their own stamp on things and not realize that other people's ideas aren't being heard.


The link to the research she's talking about is here:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/18/opinion/cain-introverts-power/

And here's her Manifesto, without the adorable font's and typefaces of the poster above:

1. There's a word for "people who are in their heads too much": thinkers.
2. Our culture rightly admires risk-takers, but we need our "heed-takers" more than ever.
3. Solitude is a catalyst for innovation.
4. Texting is popular because in an overly extroverted society, everyone craves asynchronyous, non-F2F communication.
5. We teach kids in group classrooms not because this is the best way to learn but because it's cost-efficient, and what else would we do with the children while all the grown-ups are at work? If your child prefers to work autonomously and socialize one-on-one, there's nothing wrong with her; she just happens not to fit the model.
6. The next generation of quiet kids can and should be raised to know their own strength.
7. Sometimes it helps to be a pretend-extrovert. There's always time to be quiet later.
8. But in the long run, staying true to your temperament is the key to finding work you love and work that matters.
9. Everyone shines, given the right lighting. For some, it's a Broadway spotlight, for others, a lamplit desk.
10. Rule of thumb for networking events: one genuine new relationship is worth a fistful of business cards.
11. It's OK to cross the street to avoid making small talk.
12. "Quiet leadership" is not an oxymoron.
13. The universal longing for heaven is not about immortality so much as the wish for a world in which everyone is always kind.
14. If the task of the first half of life is to put yourself out there, the task of the second half is to make sense of where you've been.
15. Love is essential, gregariousness is optional.
16. "In a gentle way, you can shake the world." - Gandhi


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I have a highly sensitive child and most of those apply to her. I have to parent her much differently than the other kids.


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## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon) (Jan 19, 2011)

Many of the scientists can be introverted. It's characteristic and not a disease...lol


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

hsuthard said:


> The book I'm listening to really shows introverts in quite a different light. Instead of describing their traits as "a lack of extroversion" in a sense, they point out their separate strengths. For example, here's a quote from a CNN article on the book:
> 
> The link to the research she's talking about is here:
> http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/18/opinion/cain-introverts-power/
> ...


As a devil's advocate point... it seems like several of the points on this list are about gentleness and kindness. Those are not really an introvert specific things. Introversion is just a general social preference.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

*DrDln* (dr.s.dhillon) said:


> Many of the scientists can be introverted. It's characteristic and not a disease...lol


Very true. But it has its definite pitfalls. The major one being that an introvert is often unwilling to leave his/her comfort zone. I can't help but feel that this is unhealthy. All animals (including humans) need to be mentally stimulated if they are to thrive.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Alain Gomez said:


> But it has its definite pitfalls. The major one being that an introvert is often unwilling to leave his/her comfort zone. I can't help but feel that this is unhealthy. All animals (including humans) need to be mentally stimulated if they are to thrive.


I don't see reluctance to leave ones comfort zone as an issue solely for introverts. It's a traits shared by almost everyone. One example of my extroverted friends not wanting to leave their comfort zones that pops in my mind is that some of them seem to be extremely uncomfortable with the possibility of being alone for more than a few hours, needing to schedule something social for every waking moment. Being alone is way outside of their comfort zones.

And how does not wanting to leave ones comfort zone equate to not being mentally stimulated? I don't agree at all. Most of the introverts I know are much deeper (for lack of a better word) people than the extroverts I know. They aren't spending their alone time hiding in a closet, but typically reading great books, attending lectures of visiting museums. They simply prefer to attend the lecture or visit the museum alone or with one or two good friends rather than in a large group.

And one could make the argument that our extrovert-oriented society almost assures that introverts have to leave their comfort zones on a regular basis.


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

As an introvert, I can assure you that I have to deal with things outside of my comfort zone each and every day. There is nothing anyone else has to do to make that happen. We live in an extrovert world and unless I want to be a total hermit, I am forced to cope with my introvert tendencies EVERY DAY. Being an introvert does not make me any more unhealthy than anyone else out there, but being labled as having unhealthy tendencies because I am an introvert does sting.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

hsuthard said:


> I am listening to a fascinating book right now by Susan Cain, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Won't Stop Talking. I think it's selling really well. It's very well researched and well written, full of relatable examples.
> 
> It also talks about how to parent an introvert, and how highly sensitive personalities are related to Introverts.


Thanks for the link to that, Holly. I've downloaded the sample. This conversation has been very interesting. There are indeed a lot of positives to being an introvert - creativity, focus, productivity. I imagine a lot of distance runners are introverts.

Of my two kids, one is an introvert. He says he needs time alone and likes have big blocks of uninterrupted quiet time to think. I feel exactly the same way. My husband has learned that during the holidays, after two days of non-stop extended family gatherings, I need a day or two of down time.


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## Jorja Tabu (Feb 6, 2012)

I think that list is great (as an introvert). I'm probably going to print a couple of copies for my other introverted buddies.

Susan Cain's book is on my list; from what I understand her TED talk (which I totes loved) is a good summation:


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

This is something that ties in especially with Christians, because the push in most churches is for people to be as extroverted as possible, especially when people are told to shake hands and greet.  It's not always comfortable for an introverted person to be essentially cajoled into shaking hands with random strangers.

Being introverted does not mean there's something wrong with you; it means you were designed differently than somebody who is extroverted-not better, not worse, just different.

For the record, I'm a mixed bag.  Depending on the situation, I can go either way.


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

J Dean said:


> This is something that ties in especially with Christians, because the push in most churches is for people to be as extroverted as possible, especially when people are told to shake hands and greet. It's not always comfortable for an introverted person to be essentially cajoled into shaking hands with random strangers.


Cain interviews the author of this book and uses Saddleback Church as an example of how Christianity has become extremely extroverted, instead of historically how it was much more introverted focussing on seclusion, retrospection, meditation, and silent prayer.


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

I think I'm also a mixed bag. It was really difficult growing up b/c my brothers (all 4) are very much extroverts, while I would prefer sitting and reading a book (I would actually choose purses/bags based on whether or not they could hold a paperback). Even today, I have a core group of friends that I can be really chummy w/, but am less likely to speak to someone I don't know. I can force myself to be friendly and outgoing if I have to, but the whole time I would be very uncomfortable. Oddly enough, one of my very very dear friends is an introvert. She is the type to get exhausted if she socializes too much. We communicate mostly via texts during the day.

B/c of my brothers, most people assumed I should have been more outgoing and "friendly" like they were. I found a video of an actor one of my brothers tried to be like, at all times:






I'm just not that outgoing


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

sherylb said:


> As an introvert, I can assure you that I have to deal with things outside of my comfort zone each and every day. There is nothing anyone else has to do to make that happen. We live in an extrovert world and unless I want to be a total hermit, I am forced to cope with my introvert tendencies EVERY DAY. Being an introvert does not make me any more unhealthy than anyone else out there, but being labled as having unhealthy tendencies because I am an introvert does sting.


For the record, I am introverted by nature as well. I just enjoy playing devil's advocate in conversations such as these.

Anyway... what about the more extreme introverts? I would argue that it can get to the point where introversion could be like OCD people or those with agoraphobia or something in that they are held back by their psychological issues. Is that not something that should be addressed/cured?

On the flip side, an example of an extreme extrovert would be someone like Snooki.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

I've taken the Myers-Briggs personality test a couple of times - I'm definitely a introvert. (And pretty much knew that before I took it.) I took it when my husband did when he was in the Air Force. Both times after taking it we went to lectures on what the various personality types mean. I found it fascinating, and it really helped me understand myself (and DH - and my kids when they took it) - and I've often said all couples considering getting married should take the test so they can understand their spouses a little better. I'm thinking that definition above about "being around people makes an introvert tired, while it energizes an extrovert" may come from Myers-Briggs - it sounds very familiar (and is very true). Most introverts can learn to deal with living in an extroverted world, or performing in an "extroverted" job - but it's tiring. And we need some down time to recover from it. I remember my mom worrying about me marrying into the military lifestyle & moving away and around a lot because I was so "shy" - she worried I'd be isolated and friendless. Twenty years later, as I walked around a room introducing myself to tables full of strangers who were parents of the "kids" in pilot training, I though "Gosh, if Mom could see me now..."

At any rate, here's what M-B says about introverts (in a nutshell) from http://www.knowyourtype.com/introversion.html:

_Key words:
inner world • ideas • reflection • depth

People who prefer introversion are energized and excited when they are involved with the ideas, images, memories, and reactions that are a part of their inner world. Introverts often prefer solitary activities or spending time with one or two others with whom they feel an affinity, and they often have a calming effect on those around them.

Introverts take time to reflect on ideas that explain the outer world. With their orientation to the inner world, introverts truly like the idea of something, often better than the something itself, and ideas are almost solid things for them.

People who prefer introversion may:

be seen as calm and "centered" or reserved
feel comfortable being alone and like solitary activities
prefer fewer, more intense relationships
sometimes spend too much time reflecting and not move into action quickly enough
sometimes forget to check with the outside world to see if their ideas really fit their experience _


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

I took a couple of those personality tests over the yrs. Mostly to try and understand why I get the 'blank stare' when I've said something that seems so obvious and reasonable. I've done the Myers-Briggs test and it was somewhat helpful, I racked up an ENFJ and was told this combo reflects 11% of the population. The test that really intrigued me was called the Matrix system (not the movie) that ranked people with colors. (Blue, Gold, Green and Orange) Out of 60 females taking the survey there was just one person besides myself that was labeled as 'Green'.  From there the 'colors' were paired up to work on a project together and even though I had never met this other 'Green' before, within minutes we were in sync and practically finishing each other sentences. It was awesome to not feel like I needed to explain myself every step of the way or worry about how I was coming across. Our 'Green team' of two finished our project rightawayquick while the Blues were still patting each others hands, the Golds were telling stories, and the Oranges were making paper airplanes out of the project materials.......
OK, it wasn't as glaringly obvious as all that. However it showed me that I'm not actually wrong or crazy. It's that I seem to process things differently than most of the people around me. Now that I can recognize that I can be more of a team player and less of the odd one out. I can see where I am weak and where others are strong and vice versa and use it to everyone's mutual satisfaction. Does that make sense?


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

I am an introvert and DH is more introverted than I am.  

A dozen years ago, when I was taking a class where class presentations were a weekly requirement, the instructor suggested we take the personality test. Partly due to years of practice, I am outgoing and enthusiastic when presenting. The instructor was very surprised to learned that my Myers-Briggs personality type showed that I am an introvert. (I should look up the specific type. I remember the instructor said I couldn't be "like those engineers who insist on eating lunch alone." Of course, I am a software engineer who usually eats lunch alone! )


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

sheiler1963 said:


> However it showed me that I'm not actually wrong or crazy. It's that I seem to process things differently than most of the people around me. Now that I can recognize that I can be more of a team player and less of the odd one out. I can see where I am weak and where others are strong and vice versa and use it to everyone's mutual satisfaction. Does that make sense?


Makes total sense - I think that's the beauty of the tests. They help you understand yourself and others and how your minds work.

I'm a P - my husband is a J - that's a very good thing to know. As a J he's very organized and neat and orderly - as a P I'm totally disorganized and messy and always late. We can drive each other a little crazy because of that, but we know that we aren't (usually) intentionally trying to push each other's buttons, we're just wired differently. On the other hand, we're both introverts, so we can go for long periods without talking, especially driving on trips. Again, now we know we aren't weird, we're just aren't wired for constant communication.


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## A. Rosaria (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm an introvert and as kid I used to shy away from people. My parents thought me to be shy while I just didn't want to be around other kids (too noisy and in my face) and I hated school. I said little, thought a lot, had few friends, but felt comfortable being that way. 

Kids grow up to be adults and are required to interact more and so I came to open myself up to others. I like being around people and talk with them once I know them (show extroverted tendencies), but it's not in my nature. After a work day I'm totally exhausted and very sensitive/irritable. Now my son is very extroverted, after work I don't get the rest I need (well not until he goes to bed), he talks and talks, and I love him, but sometimes it gets to be too much. On my non-working days I've got less a problem with this.

The part about being an introvert that's problematic to me is the need to recharge and not having time to, it exhaust my body and a body can only take so much before it crumbles down. I might have to cut off time at work or start sleeping in early. I want to be more rested on working days so I can be more a listening ear to my son. (He has some interesting stories.)


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> Point is, the agoraphobia wasn't about the desire to be private and not have to interact with people, but it was a completely different set of circumstances. At least for me. I don't think introversion is a choice, but it's more a built-in thing, not an acute response. Does that make sense?


It does make sense. So would you say that (extreme) introversion in itself is not a disorder? Rather, that type of personality is more prone to psychological issues such as phobias?

That would actually be a really interesting study. Psychological issues as they relate to intro or extroversion. Like narcissism?


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

A. Rosaria said:


> I'm an introvert and as kid I used to shy away from people. My parents thought me to be shy while I just didn't want to be around other kids (too noisy and in my face) and I hated school. I said little, thought a lot, had few friends, but felt comfortable being that way.


Heh. I always had few school friends but mostly just because I thought they were all pills. I mean, 7th grade girls?


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

Seeing the names here, I never would have guessed some of you were introverts. I've seen your posts here and you don't come off as introverted at all. I've always been introverted and feel quite uncomfortable in social settings. I also have to psyche myself up for days beforehand. I never understood why others were having such a great time at parties and gatherings, while I sat or stood there wishing I were back home in my own comfort zone.

As you can imagine, high school was a nightmare for me. An example--I ate my lunch in the girls bathroom rather than the lunchroom because I didn't want to go up to a table and ask if I could sit with them. I also joined the drama club, thinking that might help me be more outgoing. Wrong. At the first meeting, the teacher said everyone had to prepare a monologue for the next class. Well, I dropped the club after that first meeting. I think I put that incident in one of my books.

While I need my quiet times, I sometimes wish I could be the life of the party. Or at least not feel so depressed. Needless to say, this characteristic definitely hampers me when it comes to promoting my work. I find it very difficult to be "in your face" about my books.

But it's encouraging to see that I'm not alone in this.

Joyce


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

Yeah, meeting other people's eyes is hard to get used to. I force myself to do so. Then I'm so focused on that and how I'm going to respond, that I don't remember what they said.

Joyce


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## A. Rosaria (Sep 12, 2010)

Joyce DeBacco said:


> Yeah, meeting other people's eyes is hard to get used to. I force myself to do so. Then I'm so focused on that and how I'm going to respond, that I don't remember what they said.
> 
> Joyce


I don't like to look people in their eyes. I think in the eyes I can see the person for who that person is and they in turn can see me for who I am. I avoid the eyes. Not liking however is not the same as not being able to. I can do it when it's necessary, when I'm having an interview, or have to make a point, or when angry. (and of course when loving)

Drawback of avoiding eyes is that people will assume things, like you being shy, or weak.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Alain Gomez said:


> That would actually be a really interesting study. Psychological issues as they relate to intro or extroversion. Like narcissism?


I am very much an extrovert but I do have my own special phobia which is labeled, 'Amaxaphobia' (the fear of riding in cars). This also extends to riding anything else such as roller coasters, ferris wheels, ski lifts etc. I know that this phobia is linked to being in control of the vehicle. As long as I'm in charge of the stopping and going....it's cool. I kick butt on a bumper car, yet I am a basket case on a merry-go-round.



A. Rosaria said:


> Drawback of avoiding eyes is that people will assume things, like you being shy, or weak.


Or it may not be so much that people are assuming things about you, more that they are frustrated because eye contact is the way they get some feedback from you. I need people to look me in the eye when I am speaking to them so that I can gauge whether they understand/agree/disagree with what I am saying. When they don't look me in the eye I assume they are uncomfortable with something and I try harder to engage them in eye contact so I can cipher it out. More so with introverts who are less likely to verbalize what they are thinking. I need that eye contact to put it all together.


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## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon) (Jan 19, 2011)

I think some of the characteristics, such as not looking in eyes, are sign of not being sure or confident. One good thing about age I find is you become less shy...


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I am very much a introvert. Lots on that chart fits me. But here is the thing that bugs the heck out of me, don't try to change me. I don't need to be fixed. There is nothing wrong with me.  I don't need or want to be pushed into things I don't want to do. I am an adult, not a child, I know what I can or cannot do. That simple. 

I cannot be around people that are the cheerleader type, trying to "motivate" and push push push. I run the other way. Leave me alone  . 

Like tkkenyon, I can play extrovert well on TV. I worked in retail for years helping customers. When I know my subject, I can go and spread my joy so to speak. I can pretend to be outgoing at a party. But that is what it is, pretend. But I need to do things my way, on my time. I can get really hurt when family and friends try to push and tell me I need to change this and that way. Again, leave me alone  . 

And yes, there are downfalls. Being overlooked at work is one. Even though sometimes we do our jobs way more detailed and passionate, we get overlooked for promotion and such. 
Procrastination is another of the issues I deal with. 

Again, I don't need to be fixed, there is nothing wrong with me. I am the way I am, that is it. 

So now everyone leave me alone, go away.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> What about meeting other people's eyes? Did you all ever have trouble doing that? I think I was in late grade school or early high school before I could even come close.


I'm not even conscious of it anymore (until someone points it out, which just flusters me), but I almost NEVER look people in the eyes when I talk to them. I typically make eye contact until it's my turn to talk, then I look away. It's easier for me to think if I'm not trying to make eye contact. I have no idea why that is, but if I'm looking someone in the eyes, it's like I'm trying to do two things at once which makes concentrating on what I'm saying much harder. I don't really think it has anything to do with not being sure or confident, because it doesn't matter what I'm talking about or who I'm talking to. I imagine it differs from person to person though.


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## A. Rosaria (Sep 12, 2010)

sheiler1963 said:


> Or it may not be so much that people are assuming things about you, more that they are frustrated because eye contact is the way they get some feedback from you. I need people to look me in the eye when I am speaking to them so that I can gauge whether they understand/agree/disagree with what I am saying. When they don't look me in the eye I assume they are uncomfortable with something and I try harder to engage them in eye contact so I can cipher it out. More so with introverts who are less likely to verbalize what they are thinking. I need that eye contact to put it all together.


That too... people become uncertain when you don't look at them while they are talking.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

A. Rosaria said:


> That too... people become uncertain when you don't look at them while they are talking.


Exactly. As with the the whole Myers-Briggs/Matrix personality things, I've learned that the way I present myself or the way I approach a situation is sometimes misunderstood. I need some kind of feedback whether it is verbal or with eye contact so I can gauge that and see how to make it more 'cope-a-setic'. Apparently this is a typical 'Green' characteristic in that a 'Green' will try to make contact with everyone in the area to see that they feel included in whatever situation the group is in. Sometimes people don't appreciate this and just wish to be left alone. If I can see that in their eyes, then I know and will respect that and move on. I don't want to force attention on a person, I just want them to feel welcome and respected.


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## ellesu (Feb 19, 2009)

This thread is much appreciated. I'm definitely an introvert married to an extrovert. After reading the replies in this thread, I handled a situation today with my husband differently than I normally would have. Hubby cannot seem to understand that just because I don't handle things as he does, it's not a bad thing. He calls people - I send texts and emails. He talks to telemarketers - I turn the ringer off. He has conversations with sales people - I want to handle what needs handling and _leave._ You get the idea. I don't mind that he's the way he is (unless I'm with him, stuck listening to the chatter - then I usually wander off to the nearest coffee shop or bookstore, if possible, until he's finished talking). Anyway....today, when he suggested I should respond to something the way he would, I didn't feel guilty or wrong because I handled it the way I normally did. Maybe/probably because I am an introvert, but it seems others are quick to label and want to _fix_ us.

I agree with those of you who say being around too many people for too long wears you out. Yet, I taught for years with no problems. Making a presentation to peers was/is no problem. It's when I have to plan or attend social functions that I prefer to curl up and hibernate. I go - and usually enjoy myself once it's under way, but if there is any way I can get out of it, that's my choice.


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## Cliff Ball (Apr 10, 2010)

J Dean said:


> This is something that ties in especially with Christians, because the push in most churches is for people to be as extroverted as possible, especially when people are told to shake hands and greet. It's not always comfortable for an introverted person to be essentially cajoled into shaking hands with random strangers.
> 
> Being introverted does not mean there's something wrong with you; it means you were designed differently than somebody who is extroverted-not better, not worse, just different.
> 
> For the record, I'm a mixed bag. Depending on the situation, I can go either way.


That chart is definitely me to a T.

Anyway, I'm a Christian, and I really dislike having to shake hands with people I barely or don't know at church. It doesn't help that I'm still relatively new to my area and I'm still looking for a place to go. Any church larger than 300 people tends to make me want to hide in a dark corner somewhere. If I were stuck going to a mega-church, nobody would know I exist.

Funny thing is, I was an extrovert as a kid, but I had severe asthma. I was sick a lot, so I was kind of sickly and pale looking, along with being really skinny. Kids picked on me, and by the time high school rolled around, I had pretty much withdrawn from everything. As an adult, I've struggled with it, and working in customer service helped a little, but I still can't interact with groups. Even public speaking is difficult. I'm trying to get a job where I work behind the scenes as a technical writer or something having to do with writing, because the only people I want to interact with are my co-workers.

I have no problem though with doing all my book promotion online though. The internet is the perfect thing for me, because I don't have to pretend I'm enjoying being here, I don't have to put on a fake smile, and I won't go home thoroughly exhausted from physically interacting with people.


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

This describes me perfectly. No matter how many times I take the MB test this is my profile:
The Protector

As an INFJ, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you take things in primarily via intuition. Your secondary mode is external, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit with your personal value system.

INFJs are gentle, caring, complex and highly intuitive individuals. Artistic and creative, they live in a world of hidden meanings and possibilities. Only one percent of the population has an INFJ Personality Type, making it the most rare of all the types.


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

I just took the two free tests linked from Free On-line Myers Briggs Personality Tests. On one the result was ISTJ while the other was INTJ. The one had agree / disagree while the other had a range on each question. The questions were different between the two tests. Both showed the strength of the answers for each indicator. I was not surprised by the differences in the results. It is definite, however, that I am an introvert! 

ETA: While I have not found the results from the test I took more than 10 years ago, I believe that the results then were INTJ.


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

I asked DH which one he thought he was, he said he was an introvert, which made sense.  When the both of us want to relax and unwind, we just put a movie on and snuggle on the couch together.  Most of the time that is our "date night" (the main cause of this is 2 small children and no babysitter).  

I also took one of the free online tests that were linked.  This is my score:  
Introverted (I) 64.52% Extroverted (E) 35.48%
Sensing (S) 51.22% Intuitive (N) 48.78%
Feeling (F) 52.5% Thinking (T) 47.5%
Perceiving (P) 68.42% Judging (J) 31.58%

which means:
disorganized, timid, prone to discouragement, socially uncomfortable, does not like leadership, suggestible, not self confident, not aggressive, lower energy, fearful, anxious, easily distracted, prone to discontentment, guarded, not confrontational, prone to longing for a stabilizing relationship, can be overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings, easily disturbed, fears drawing attention to self, prone to confusion, private, second guesses self, prone to quitting, underachiever, fears rejection in relationships, emotionally moody, prone to sadness, dislikes change, indecisive, modest, doubting, prone to laziness

I think it's pretty spot on, for me.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Alle Meine Entchen said:


> I asked DH which one he thought he was, he said he was an introvert, which made sense. When the both of us want to relax and unwind, we just put a movie on and snuggle on the couch together. Most of the time that is our "date night" (the main cause of this is 2 small children and no babysitter).
> 
> I also took one of the free online tests that were linked. This is my score:
> Introverted (I) 64.52% Extroverted (E) 35.48%
> ...


ISFP - that's me too.  And yeah, for better and for worse, that's pretty much me. Not sure I'm so much prone to "sadness" as that I'm not prone to extremes of sadness OR happiness. And I prefer the earlier used "lower energy" to "prone to laziness"! I like the info here: http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP.html

One thing that drives DH crazy is that Ps tend to always be "looking for alternatives" - that falls under "second guesses self" - even after we've made a decision about something like where to eat, I'll still be coming up with more suggestions. "There you go, looking for alternatives again." He's a J - much more organized than me. Another quote I remember from a lecture..."Js make lists and use them. Ps make lists and lose them." Yep, that would be me...

There's a book called "Do What You Are" that lists jobs for each of the 16 types. Turns out I ended up in a field I'm well-suited for - secretary/office manager/administrative assistant. And DH was well-suited for his military career as well. 


Oh, and the tests I took 20-25 years ago were something like 400 questions long. Sometimes it was things like "Which word do you prefer?" and a choice of two words. Kinda strange. But the second time I took it, it was a bit of a cheat - it was obvious that some of the questions were introvert/extrovert or J/P type questions. So I came out even stronger as an I and a P. I've still got all the paperwork and notes from taking those test somewhere around here.


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## A. Rosaria (Sep 12, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> And I love this one - check out my second job option! *considers what country to overtake*
> _
> scientist, dictator, forensic anthropologist, systems analyst, philosopher, nuclear engineer, political analyst, researcher, statistician, scholar, research scientist, computer scientist, software designer, curator, computer programmer, aerospace engineer, electrical engineer, paleontologist, english professor, philosophy professor, chemical engineer, epidemiologist, forensic scientist, museum curator, research assistant, mechanic, astronomer, figher pilot, librarian, systems administrator, neurosurgeon, book editor, biotechnology, archeologist, lab tech, bookstore owner_


I'm also an INTJ, and not a dictator (yet) just a simple sys-admin. (writer by night)


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

As an introvert who grew up being criticized, nagged, and forced to change, therefore thinking that I was "bad" and inadequate, and trying hard to remake my personality as a teen and young adult, here's my stance today. To heck with all the "fixers". I am who I am and I will be that way. Don't like it = get out of my life. Yes, I hate the phones and won't use them. Don't like it = see above. I love my comfort zone and I'd love to stay there; I can't stay there all the time, and that's fine, but I choose my battles carefully. If I see that one particular step is not necessary, no matter how small and insignificant it might seem to non-introverts, I will not do it.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> *applauds loudly*


Thanks T.L. 

Perhaps the "Don't like it = get out of my life" statement should be rephrased as "_Can't accept it_ = get out of my life". It is, of course, perfectly all right if some people don't understand my ways or dislike them. I don't mind raised eyebrows, and I'm happy to explain when people ask. But when "fixing" starts, when I get the notion that I am weird and need to change my ways, that's when I take my stance, LOL.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Laura Lond said:


> Thanks T.L.
> 
> Perhaps the "Don't like it = get out of my life" statement should be rephrased as "_Can't accept it_ = get out of my life". It is, of course, perfectly all right if some people don't understand my ways or dislike them. I don't mind raised eyebrows, and I'm happy to explain when people ask. But when "fixing" starts, when I get the notion that I am weird and need to change my ways, that's when I take my stance, LOL.


I'm glad to see you rephrased that comment because I thought it was pretty harsh. As it stands now it still seems a bit one sided. As an extrovert I've sought out ways to 'fix' myself to make interactions with more introverted people a happier experience for them. I do think they can try and meet me half way though. For example my friend who will not answer the phone. We discussed it once and what I told her was something like this:

I know you hate the phone and I try not to call you with chit chat. There are times when voice mail or text just isn't enough. I need the sound of a human voice. When I know you are there looking at the caller ID and not picking up or returning my call, it hurts my feelings and I feel rejected. If this never changes, it will change nothing about our friendship. I will still love you and be your friend and I will get over it. I still wish you would pick up now and then.

Once I told her how I felt she understood and answers the phone........about 50% of the time. Since I only phone her about once a month anyway I don't see it as pushing her.


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

sheiler1963 said:


> I know you hate the phone and I try not to call you with chit chat. There are times when voice mail or text just isn't enough. I need the sound of a human voice. When I know you are there looking at the caller ID and not picking up or returning my call, it hurts my feelings and I feel rejected. If this never changes, it will change nothing about our friendship. I will still love you and be your friend and I will get over it. I still wish you would pick up now and then.
> 
> Once I told her how I felt she understood and answers the phone........about 50% of the time. Since I only phone her about once a month anyway I don't see it as pushing her.


 Have you tried texting her that you really need her to call you because you need to talk to someone? Or try Skype?


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

ellesu said:


> .
> 
> I agree with those of you who say being around too many people for too long wears you out. Yet, I taught for years with no problems. Making a presentation to peers was/is no problem. It's when I have to plan or attend social functions that I prefer to curl up and hibernate. I go - and usually enjoy myself once it's under way, but if there is any way I can get out of it, that's my choice.


I teach as well with no problems. Granted, I am tried at the end of the day. But for totally different reasons  I think it's a different kind of interaction. You're not necessarily representing YOURSELF to other people. You're representing a set of knowledge. It's less personal in that sense.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

sherylb said:


> Have you tried texting her that you really need her to call you because you need to talk to someone? Or try Skype?


No. I told her what I told her and she now knows that when I call, I want to talk. She gets it and will pick up if she is near her phone and I'm calling. If she is not near her phone, she will call me back when she darn well feels like it. I won't even suggest Skype. I respect her enough not to suggest that. Because to her Skype (I think) would be even more of an intrusion. That would be like me showing up on her doorstep uninvited.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

sheiler1963 said:


> I won't even suggest Skype. I respect her enough not to suggest that. Because to her Skype (I think) would be even more of an intrusion. That would be like me showing up on her doorstep uninvited.


Talking and especially video-talking over Skype - yes, certainly. Texting, though, could be quite a different story. She might actually love it. I text via Skype all the time.

Yes, of course we should make an effort and meet people half way, especially when we _know_ something we do can hurt their feelings. I do it, and I think most people have no idea I have difficulties with some things. Only the closest ones do.


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

I think that the reason why giving presentations and teaching can be energizing is because the energy comes from focusing on knowledge and other internal sources. I used to wonder why I seemed more outgoing in some situations and shy in others. Then I realized that what I was focusing on differed. I now use that deliberately to make myself more comfortable or happier, especially when DH finds a situation too stressful.

16 types as found on the Myers Briggs site:
http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/the-16-mbti-types.asp


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't necessarily think extroverts will try to fix introverts. But (in Myers-Briggs speak) extroverted *J*s may well try to fix introverts. *J*s tend to see things in black and white, and tend to think "their" way is the right way - so yes, an extroverted *J* will think an introvert needs to be fixed. An extroverted *P* will likely kinda let an introvert do his own thing - won't necessarily understand the introversion, but won't try to fix it. We *P*s are too busy trying to keep our own lives in order to be trying to fix anyone else. 

So when an extrovert tries to fix an introvert - it's not just because he/she is an extrovert. It's probably because he/she is a *J*.


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## A. Rosaria (Sep 12, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> So I'm wondering if this is something other introverts have trouble with - caring for others in a caregiver role? Or is this my own brand of psychosis?


I think introverts care for people differently than extroverts; I don't think your troubles caring is specifically relating to introversion. I think introverts between themselves care differently based on their personal experiences and because of the many differences between humans of a same general group.

I know I'm not the best caregiver, but my need for taking responsibility and a (slight) authoritarian streak, steers me in caring for others no matter how an unpleasant caregiver I am.


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

T.L. Haddix said:


> So I'm wondering if this is something other introverts have trouble with - caring for others in a caregiver role? Or is this my own brand of psychosis?


I believe that there are many aspects to caring for others in a caregiver role. Each situation is different and each of us will respond differently.

Is the person needing care a stranger, friend, enemy, close or distant family? Loved, liked, disliked, or hated? Infant, toddler, child, adolescent, young adult, adult, or elderly? What type of care is needed? Does the person providing the care want to do it for their own reasons or is it seen as an obligation imposed by others? Is the care needed temporarily or long term? What impact does providing care have on the caregiver? Are there others to share the caregiving? ...

DH and I had been married for seven years before both of us felt ready for parenthood. But when we decided the time was right, we were good and happy parents. When my daughter was an infant, I enjoyed taking care of her. But how I felt about changing the diapers of another baby depended on the situation. Did I want to do it or did I think one of the parents should do it? One of the advantages of grandparenthood can be handing back the baby. 

I have also happily provided care to some adults who needed it. Each situation was different.


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## ellesu (Feb 19, 2009)

*Alain Gomez* and *Annalog*, I agree with you both - it's focusing on the knowledge and the means of getting it across to so many differing types of people that makes a difference.

I'm an INTJ and one of the aspects is: "Often they are seen as cold and distant, but this is really the absorbed concentration they give to whatever problem they're working on. " I'm aware of this trait and it affects my perception of _me_. What comes across on the outside (facial expressions, etc) is often not what's happening on the inside (feelings, emotion). I felt this affected my teaching and my interpersonal life. I've seen video tapes of me teaching and what I _look_ like (business like, in control) is not at all what I feel like inside.

Texting has given me a way to keep in touch with others - even though to my extrovert hubby it seems a cold way of communicating. 

What *T.L. Haddix* posted about not being able to take care of people is a problem for me also - although I have four kiddos and I have had no problem there. I had my children when I was quite young so maybe if I'd been older and had time to think about it it would have worried me. I have had extended family members who I wish I had been there for more. *A. Rosaria*, yes, I think we care for people differently. It's rare for me to call someone just to touch base or chit-chat, just as it would be difficult for me insert myself into someone's life - even though they might need help at the time. It seems so simple and some people do it so well and I admire them for being able to do it so smoothly. If someone tells me what they need, I can do that, but I realize that's not how things are when someone is in a stressful situation. So, true to personality type, I watch to see if someone takes responsibility because, also true to personality type, I know what I can and cannot do and will readily admit it.

This was interesting - and so true: "This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense.  This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness."


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

sheiler1963 said:


> I'm glad to see you rephrased that comment because I thought it was pretty harsh. As it stands now it still seems a bit one sided. As an extrovert I've sought out ways to 'fix' myself to make interactions with more introverted people a happier experience for them. I do think they can try and meet me half way though. For example my friend who will not answer the phone. We discussed it once and what I told her was something like this:
> 
> I know you hate the phone and I try not to call you with chit chat. There are times when voice mail or text just isn't enough. I need the sound of a human voice. When I know you are there looking at the caller ID and not picking up or returning my call, it hurts my feelings and I feel rejected. If this never changes, it will change nothing about our friendship. I will still love you and be your friend and I will get over it. I still wish you would pick up now and then.
> 
> Once I told her how I felt she understood and answers the phone........about 50% of the time. Since I only phone her about once a month anyway I don't see it as pushing her.


See but this type of introversion is what I was kind of talking about with regard to should we "cure" it or not. The way I see things, a psychological problem is something that prevents us from living a normal, well-balanced life. Humans are social animals whether we like it or not. How much we like to socialize could vary. But there can be no arguing that total isolation for prolonged periods of time affects us.

Your friend enjoys your company but refuses to pick up the phone because of her introversion. Is this not the same thing as refusing to pick up the phone for fear of germs being on it? Or something similar to that?


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Alain Gomez said:


> See but this type of introversion is what I was kind of talking about with regard to should we "cure" it or not. The way I see things, a psychological problem is something that prevents us from living a normal, well-balanced life. Humans are social animals whether we like it or not. How much we like to socialize could vary. But there can be no arguing that total isolation for prolonged periods of time affects us.
> 
> Your friend enjoys your company but refuses to pick up the phone because of her introversion. Is this not the same thing as refusing to pick up the phone for fear of germs being on it? Or something similar to that?


Not to me. Is it "normal and well-balanced" to pick up the phone to talk to someone when I *don't* feel like it? Isn't that what caller-ID is all about?  I also look out the window when someone knocks on the door - if I don't know them and don't expect anyone, I don't answer the door. Is that something that needs to be "cured" too?

Sheiler seems to have found a good, healthy compromise with her friend - she doesn't call as often as she'd probably like, her friend answers more often than she'd probably like.

Talk about "curing" implies that there's something wrong with being an introvert. But that's the point - there's nothing wrong with it, it's just the way some of us are wired. There are all kinds of extreme fears like agoraphobia, but that's something different from simple introversion. There's a difference between not doing something because you have a phobia about it, and not doing it because you don't enjoy it or don't feel like it.

It's like saying an extrovert should be "cured" because she just talks and talks and talks and is constantly up in my face and bugs the crap outta me, the introvert. There's nothing actually wrong with her - she's just wired differently from me, and if we're friends (or family) we'll have to find a compromise. In fact my best friend in high school was an extreme extrovert - she did talk and talk and talk - and I tuned her out a lot of the time in self-defense.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

Alain, I don't think the phone thing can be "cured." It can be taken under control, sure; I make all the necessary phone calls + quite a bit for my mom (doctor and medicine related stuff, she does not speak fluent English, so I just need to help out). I do it. But I still cringe _every time_ I find out I need to make a phone call. The day instantly turns black with the prospect of The Phone Call looming over me. I won't forget about it for a minute. I'll try to get it done with as soon as I can, so that it's off my back, I can breathe a sigh of relief and get back to my normal life. And yes, as soon as I'm done with the call, the world gets its colors back.


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## ellesu (Feb 19, 2009)

What part do you all think self-confidence - or lack of it plays in introversion (is that a/the word?) I think, for many people, a quick assumption is made that an introvert lacks self-confidence. That may explain why some people (especially those who care about us) think we need fixing. I've had people think I felt bad about myself when I didn't want to socialize, and they went out of their way to tell me how I shouldn't feel that way. Drove me crazy! I may indeed feel bad about myself on occasion - and that might be a spell of low self-confidence, but other times I JUST DON'T WANT TO GO. 

I think self-confidence is a whole other _thing_ in and of itself. My extroverted hubby says he had extremely low self-confidence growing up. I didn't know him then, but looking at pictures and listening to stories from those who did, he seemed pretty much the same class clown as he is now. ~~said in a loving (if at times, aggravated) way~~


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Laura Lond said:


> Alain, I don't think the phone thing can be "cured." It can be taken under control, sure; I make all the necessary phone calls + quite a bit for my mom (doctor and medicine related stuff, she does not speak fluent English, so I just need to help out). I do it. But I still cringe _every time_ I find out I need to make a phone call. The day instantly turns black with the prospect of The Phone Call looming over me. I won't forget about it for a minute. I'll try to get it done with as soon as I can, so that it's off my back, I can breathe a sigh of relief and get back to my normal life. And yes, as soon as I'm done with the call, the world gets its colors back.


You are not alone. Having to make appointments is bad enough, but making any kind of calls where I have to ask for something, ugh. Like when I had to call Amazon customer service when I needed a replacement for my K3. Like you, I can't stop thinking about "that phonecall" until I finally made the darn thing. It never ever gets easier.

And its really impossible to explain to people that cannot relate. I have given up and just evade the subject. But it doesn't stop some from still making me feel really bad when they make comments like, just pick up the phone and call, its not that hard. 
But its just the way I am.

I make phone calls all the time, all my life, but it doesn't mean it gets any easier. Its just really really unpleasant.

For me the worse is when someone else could make that same phone call for example, but won't do it on purpose to basically "teach me". I hate that the most.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

Atunah said:


> For me the worse is when someone else could make that same phone call for example, but won't do it on purpose to basically "teach me". I hate that the most.


Hubby used to do this to me sometimes.  He is introverted as well, but in a somewhat different way, and the phone thing doesn't bother him at all, so he couldn't figure out why I don't like it. He eventually saw that it's not that I _ don't know how to make a call_, I can and do make tons of them, yet it's still something I intensely dislike, so he no longer does it.


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

Talking on the phone doesn't bother me except when I can't organize my thoughts properly and start rambling. After all, I'm a writer and used to editing what I say until it comes out the way I want. But you can't edit when you're speaking to someone. I also don't like to leave messages on answering machines.

Perhaps most embarrassing and humiliating is when some bigmouth in a group points out loudly how quiet you are, how sad you look, how shy you are. Hate that with a passion. 

Joyce


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

ellesu said:


> What part do you all think self-confidence - or lack of it plays in introversion (is that a/the word?) I think, for many people, a quick assumption is made that an introvert lacks self-confidence. That may explain why some people (especially those who care about us) think we need fixing. I've had people think I felt bad about myself when I didn't want to socialize, and they went out of their way to tell me how I shouldn't feel that way. Drove me crazy! I may indeed feel bad about myself on occasion - and that might be a spell of low self-confidence, but other times I JUST DON'T WANT TO GO.
> 
> I think self-confidence is a whole other _thing_ in and of itself. My extroverted hubby says he had extremely low self-confidence growing up. I didn't know him then, but looking at pictures and listening to stories from those who did, he seemed pretty much the same class clown as he is now. ~~said in a loving (if at times, aggravated) way~~


I agree. Other than also being ways of describing someone or affecting someones behavior, I do not think that either self confidence or self esteem (high or low) determine if a person is introverted or extroverted.

Over the years people have assumed that I either had low self confidence or low self esteem because I was not outgoing. In junior high and high school several people told me that I was a "wall flower" because of problems with my self esteem or self confidence. I knew that they were wrong because I did have confidence in myself and my abilities. My self esteem was at a healthy level, in my opinion. Having come from an essentially two room school house, I knew that I did not have experience with large groups of people. Lack of experience does not necessarily correlate with self confidence. Also, I was very fortunate to have wonderful parents who made sure that all of their children knew our abilities, knew we could talk with them about anything, and that we could do whatever we set our minds and hearts to. We grew up happy that none of us were "normal" or the same as anyone else. What would be the fun in that?


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Meemo said:


> So when an extrovert tries to fix an introvert - it's not just because he/she is an extrovert. It's probably because he/she is a *J*.


Well according to MB I am an ENFJ. However when it came down to the J-P portion of the test I was 50/50. It was difficult to gauge where I was in that category because my answers could change depending on particulars of a situation. I think I ended up just flipping a coin on that one. 
Just an added note of no real relevance with regard to talking on the phone. Once during a lean time I took a second job as a telemarketer. I really sucked at it because instead of getting money out of the people I called, I ended up chatting with them too much. 'Your wife just had a baby! Congratulations! Boy or girl? What did you name him/her? Oh I love that name.........'


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

T.L. Haddix said:


> ETA - For me, the self-esteem is tied up a little with the introversion, just because I grew up in an area where shy, quiet people were perhaps picked on/looked down on more than other areas. Add to that my being a reader, and well, until I was about a sophomore in high school, I was miserable.


I think that's an interesting thought, that maybe at least in some cases a lack of self-confidence in an introvert isn't an inherent personality characteristic, but rather something that's "learned" from the way we're treated by our extrovert-dominated society.

As an INTJ, my profile says I've got self-confidence oozing out of my pores. To the point that people can mistake it for arrogance. And I think that's likely true, at least sometimes. But I only "came into" that as an adult. As a teenager I remember feeling terribly un-confident. Probably part of it was simply from being a teenager. But possibly in part it was because I felt such pressure from my extroverted friends to be more like them--and their almost non-stop obsessing about looks and boys seemed extremely silly and boring to me. I much preferred spending time with others discussing current events, big ideas or by myself reading. Perhaps the differences in me and the majority of my friends created the perception (at a vulnerable age) that something was "wrong" with me. It was only as I came into my late 20's that the self-confidence began to show up. But I still despise making or answering telephone calls.


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

T.L. Haddix said:


> ...ETA - For me, the self-esteem is tied up a little with the introversion, just because I grew up in an area where shy, quiet people were perhaps picked on/looked down on more than other areas. Add to that my being a reader, and well, until I was about a sophomore in high school, I was miserable.





Pawz4me said:


> I think that's an interesting thought, that maybe at least in some cases a lack of self-confidence in an introvert isn't an inherent personality characteristic, but rather something that's "learned" from the way we're treated by our extrovert-dominated society.
> ...


That makes sense to me.

When people told me that I was introverted because I lacked confidence, I knew that was not the case. However, I can see how the reactions of others to introverted behaviour could result in lack of confidence. I had not considered reversing which was the cause and which was the effect.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Annalog said:


> That makes sense to me.
> 
> When people told me that I was introverted because I lacked confidence, I knew that was not the case. However, I can see how the reactions of others to introverted behaviour could result in lack of confidence. I had not considered reversing which was the cause and which was the effect.


People say that because they don't understand that introversion/extroversion is a matter of hard wiring. It's like eye & hair color and bone structure. I can wear colored contacts, I can (and do!) have my hair stylist cover my gray, I can work out until I drop - but my eyes are still blue, my hair is still (naturally) pretty gray, and I'll never have long, sleek limbs. And I can function in big and not-so-big social situations, and make & answer those dreaded phone calls, but I'll always be an introvert.

As Gaga would say, I was born this way...


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

Pawz4me said:


> maybe at least in some cases a lack of self-confidence in an introvert isn't an inherent personality characteristic, but rather something that's "learned" from the way we're treated by our extrovert-dominated society.


Well, that's certainly the case with me. Imagine hearing "you're slow, you're weird, you're boring, other kids _fill-in-the-blank_ and you're not" all the time and it's easy to imagine what it would do to the kid's self-confidence. "Guys like girls who are lively and fun, you'll never get married" came later on. Is it any surprise I wanted to hide in a hole and never come out?

I have healed, I know my worth, but I have scars. And I'm still an introvert.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

Yes, hating to draw attention is something I can relate to. That's the reason I rarely use people's names, because when you say, _John!_ - you instantly get their full attention, focused on yourself. There are so many little things that stem out of the general dislike to be in the spotlight, scrutinized and judged. I suppose finding it difficult to look people in the eye is one of them. (The trick for that, by the way, is to look at the bridge of their nose - they'll have the impression you are looking them in the eye. I've read that in a book, so there must be plenty of people who need such advice, LOL.)

The good thing is, all this makes character study for my books easier.


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

T.L. Haddix said:


> Thank God society is starting to take bullying seriously, and understand how much it can hurt kids. It's a sad commentary on humanity that, up until it became popular to understand and decry bullying, too many teachers and school officials, parents and other adults, etc., thought it was okay for kids to pick on other kids.


Well... it's not all good. There's a downside to this, too.

For starters, kids are turning into tattletales. There's no differentiation between real bullying and trite things like a kid saying something snippy to another kid. EVERYTHING is becoming bullying, and in some circles it's getting out of control. I had a kid last year tell me he was being bullied, and when I looked into the situation I found out he was starting problems with anothe students and the other student was basically defending herself.

Also, the State of Michigan has made bullying a crime. Now, that _sounds_ good on the surface, but it ends up turning the whole thing into a circus. For starters, it's neither possible nor realistic to enforce this law. Also, "bullying" can entail almost anything, so that if a kid doesn't like the way another kid is looking at him it can be called "bullying" and action has to be taken. Fortunately, most of the kids don't realize that they have this power yet, but I can see it becoming abused in a hurry, like other well-intentioned laws.

When I was bullied in school, I took care of it myself: I popped a guy in the mouth when he tried to assault me. The kid got a bloody mouth and never bothered with me again. I've essentially told my kids the same thing: you have the right to defend yourself if you are assaulted. And if the school doesn't like it, I'll take you out to eat if they suspend you.

I am a teacher, and I expect students to respect rules, respect authorities, and respect each other. But I will NOT punish a student for self-defense.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

I completely agree that standing up against bullying (including hitting back) is self-defense and shouldn't be punished. Most schools don't investigate though and automatically punish both kids if there's a "fight". Still, it shouldn't stop kids from defending themselves, and they should know it.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

Meemo said:


> It's like saying an extrovert should be "cured" because she just talks and talks and talks and is constantly up in my face and bugs the crap outta me, the introvert. There's nothing actually wrong with her - she's just wired differently from me, and if we're friends (or family) we'll have to find a compromise. In fact my best friend in high school was an extreme extrovert - she did talk and talk and talk - and I tuned her out a lot of the time in self-defense.


See, I would actually apply that "cure" thing to the talkers as well. I've noticed that people who constantly talk are uncomfortable with silence and do it to make themselves feel better in social situations.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Alain Gomez said:


> See, I would actually apply that "cure" thing to the talkers as well. I've noticed that people who constantly talk are uncomfortable with silence and do it to make themselves feel better in social situations.


This caught my attention because while I am an extrovert and I admit I love to talk, one of my top five pet peeves is those who dominate a conversation and don't allow others their time on the floor. If someone is continually interrupting it literally makes my toes curl. I WANT to hear what others have to say and perhaps even more so from the quieter ones who seem to 'gear themselves up' before they speak. When someone interrupts when I am listening to someone else I will hold my hand up or otherwise indicate that person needs to wait their turn. If I have the floor and someone interrupts me I immediately stop and let them speak before I resume because trying to talk over someone else is a waste of time. 
I do recall one time in particular though that an 'interrupter' just didn't get it. After about the fourth time in a row of not being able to finish a sentence I finally turned to him and said, 'Excuse me. I didn't mean to be talking while you were trying to interrupt.' 
I'm not perfect and I do tend to get caught up in the moment sometimes and I tend to blurt out things that I wish I hadn't, or at least phrased differently. I'm working on it though.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Alain Gomez said:


> See, I would actually apply that "cure" thing to the talkers as well. I've noticed that people who constantly talk are uncomfortable with silence and do it to make themselves feel better in social situations.


Well, that's the nature of an extrovert. They don't enjoy and crave quiet like an introvert does. They do love to talk, they don't enjoy too much silence, and will sometimes talk just to fill silence. They aren't "wrong" though, and they don't need to be cured. They're just wired differently from me. 
http://www.knowyourtype.com/extraversion.html
Extraversion (E)

Key words:
outer world • people • action • breadth

People who prefer extraversion are energized by active involvement in events, and they like to be immersed in a breadth of activities. They are most excited when they are around people, and they often have an energized effect on those around them. Extraverts like to move into action and to make things happen--extraverts usually feel very at home in the world.

With their orientation to the outer world, extraverts often find their understanding of a problem becomes clearer if they can talk out loud about it and hear what others have to say.

People who prefer extraversion may:

be seen as "go-getters" or "people-persons"
feel comfortable with and like working in groups
have a wide range of acquaintances and friends
sometimes jump too quickly into activity and not allow enough time for reflection
sometimes forgets to pause to clarify the ideas that give aim or meaning to their activities


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## cc84 (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm an introvert. I don't like that first post because like the OP said, it makes it sound like it's a disease that needs a cure. So i don't like been around lots of people or strangers, so what. I prefer peace and quiet. I prefer to be around my pets. I'm not a people person, if i'm honest, apart from my family i don't really like people. And i don't mean that to offend people here, i'm sure you are all lovely but that's just how it is for me. I'm polite to people, if i have to be in a social situation i try my best although i know i'm socially awkward. The people who know me know this and don't care, and if other people have a problem with that then it's their issue as far as i'm concerned. 

I don't feel like i'm missing out just because i don't throw myself out there. Everyone is different.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

cc84 said:


> I'm an introvert. I don't like that first post because like the OP said, it makes it sound like it's a disease that needs a cure. So i don't like been around lots of people or strangers, so what. I prefer peace and quiet. I prefer to be around my pets. I'm not a people person, if i'm honest, apart from my family i don't really like people. And i don't mean that to offend people here, i'm sure you are all lovely but that's just how it is for me. I'm polite to people, if i have to be in a social situation i try my best although i know i'm socially awkward. The people who know me know this and don't care, and if other people have a problem with that then it's their issue as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> I don't feel like i'm missing out just because i don't throw myself out there. Everyone is different.


See, I don't see that the list in the initial post insinuates that introversion needs "curing" at all - it isn't talking about how to "cure" an introvert and make them an extrovert at all - it's about altering your own behavior when you're in a relationship with an introvert - whether it's friendhip, a work relationship, a marriage, whatever. It's about curing "your" behavior, not the introvert's. At least that's how I read it.

[Edited for clarification.]


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

_We live in a very extroverted society. But at the same time I feel like this list makes introversion sound like a handicap that should be worked around. Should introverts be pushed to be more like extroverts? Or should society learn to embrace this approach to life?_ and _*See but this type of introversion is what I was kind of talking about with regard to should we "cure" it or not*. The way I see things, a psychological problem is something that prevents us from living a normal, well-balanced life. Humans are social animals whether we like it or not. How much we like to socialize could vary. But there can be no arguing that total isolation for prolonged periods of time affects us._

Meemo- these two quotes taken together from Alain Gomez are what some of us are objecting to in this discussion. I, at least, don't see being an introvert as a psychological problem that prevents me from leading a "normal, well-balanced" (and who determins that?) life. I'm just different. Not better or worse, just different.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

sherylb said:


> _We live in a very extroverted society. But at the same time I feel like this list makes introversion sound like a handicap that should be worked around. Should introverts be pushed to be more like extroverts? Or should society learn to embrace this approach to life?_ and _*See but this type of introversion is what I was kind of talking about with regard to should we "cure" it or not*. The way I see things, a psychological problem is something that prevents us from living a normal, well-balanced life. Humans are social animals whether we like it or not. How much we like to socialize could vary. But there can be no arguing that total isolation for prolonged periods of time affects us._
> 
> Meemo- these two quotes taken together from Alain Gomez are what some of us are objecting to in this discussion. I, at least, don't see being an introvert as a psychological problem that prevents me from leading a "normal, well-balanced" (and who determins that?) life. I'm just different. Not better or worse, just different.


I have that objection as well, and I wasn't clear - what I meant is that I disagree with his premise that the initial *list* he posted makes introversion sound like a "handicap" or something that needs to be cured. But his own statements there and later do pose that question. I don't see the list as a guide to working "around" introversion, but as learning to work "with" it.


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

^^^OK, Gotcha and I agree!


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

sherylb said:


> Meemo- these two quotes taken together from Alain Gomez are what some of us are objecting to in this discussion. I, at least, don't see being an introvert as a psychological problem that prevents me from leading a "normal, well-balanced" (and who determins that?) life. I'm just different. Not better or worse, just different.


This question always reminds me have that movie Harvey starring Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy plays a guy who sees an invisible rabbit and everyone keeps trying to "cure" him even though he's totally happy. As the movie progresses you realize that he's actually more stable than all the "sane" people around him.

What I guess I'm trying to pose as a question here is can introversion be so extreme that it actually _prevents_ one from doing the things one would maybe like to do? If this is the case, should it be cured?


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Alain Gomez said:


> What I guess I'm trying to pose as a question here is can introversion be so extreme that it actually _prevents_ one from doing the things one would maybe like to do? If this is the case, should it be cured?


I don't know. But I think that's a much more legitimate question than whether or not introversion in and of itself needs to be "cured."

And of course that question could be posed for a number of things. If an extrovert developed out-of-control sexual behaviors (or hanging out in bars drinking too much or whatever) because he/she was afraid to be alone, would we think he/she needs to be "cured" of the extroversion? Is the extroversion the root of the problem, or is the undesirable behavior a totally separate condition?

I suspect we're all pretty much constantly trying to "cure" something about our basic personality. Whether it's being too judgmental (my own bugaboo), procrastinating, being a perfectionist, etc.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Alain Gomez said:


> This question always reminds me have that movie Harvey starring Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy plays a guy who sees an invisible rabbit and everyone keeps trying to "cure" him even though he's totally happy. As the movie progresses you realize that he's actually more stable than all the "sane" people around him.
> 
> What I guess I'm trying to pose as a question here is can introversion be so extreme that it actually _prevents_ one from doing the things one would maybe like to do? If this is the case, should it be cured?


If it's that extreme, it's gone beyond simple introversion. It's probably morphed into some type of phobia, and phobias that interfere with one's life should probably be addressed.

I said earlier in the discussion that I think personality testing should be a part of pre-marital counseling. And in fact I think it's useful for everyone - the things I learned about myself helped make me aware of both my strengths & weaknesses - and that in certain situations, my weaknesses can actually be my strengths. Example: My last (paying) job was as an office manager at a busy and rapidly growing business. There was a lot of chaos, and I was constantly pulled into multiple directions. It would probably drive a structured, organized person crazy - but for unorganized, unstructured me, it wasn't a big issue. I could roll with all the constantly changing priorities and tasking.

It was really helpful to realize that because my husband and I are both introverts, it isn't crazy that we can be on a trip and drive for miles and miles without saying a word to each other. And it was really, *really* helpful for me to realize that as a "P", I'm not lazy or unmotivated - I'm just easily distracted and I have to work harder to focus on the task at hand to get it completed. I'll never have the neatest, most organized house, but knowing that I'm not wired to be Suzy Homemaker helps me accept that - the key has been to not just use it as an excuse for letting things get even messier and more disorganized, or never talking to anyone, or whatever the case may be, but to look for ways to work *with* my tendencies (good and bad) rather than against them. And it was helpful that we both took the test - it helped each of us understand how the other is wired, and understand each other's strengths and weaknesses.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

tkkenyon said:


> I agree! I've been telling my son that, _if someone hits him first,_ he is expected to block and then he is free to finish it.
> 
> And if he gets suspended, he'll be "suspended with ice cream."
> 
> ...


So true. I've taken martial arts for years. When I asked why the white belts aren't allowed to spar they said it was because the beginners pose the most threat since they don't know how to control themselves.


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## Lily Mia (Apr 24, 2012)

My own view, coming from an introvert who changed.

I was born an introvert and through out my childhood up until the end of my teens I had a very difficult time from extroverts who thought there was something wrong with me because I was so "Quiet". 
The single most hard and painful thing was coming out of my shell to ask someone out, and then dealing with the rejection - which turned into a public matter for discussion - college.

I said at the beginning that I had changed. This is true and the transformation would take far too long to explain on here. Put simply because of work, sales and training and self help books, if you meet me today you would never know I was an introvert.

There is no single superior of being introvert or extrovert. Each has its positives and negatives. To a certain extent each compliments the other. I would however like to point out the following:

1) Extroverts (singly, when not in a group) fear introverts. Extroverts thrive on social attention, introverts don't. This contradiction startles extroverts because it makes them look weak, when historically it's the extrovert who ridicules the introvert.

2) Introverts tend to have longer attention spans. Extroverts tend to act spontaneously with less forethought. 

3) I could go on...

The world may seem to be an extrovert one, but I would hazard a guess and say it's introverts that manage things behind the façade.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Lily Mia said:


> 1) Extroverts (singly, when not in a group) fear introverts. Extroverts thrive on social attention, introverts don't. This contradiction startles extroverts because it makes them look weak, when historically it's the extrovert who ridicules the introvert.
> 
> 2) Introverts tend to have longer attention spans. Extroverts tend to act spontaneously with less forethought.
> 
> ...


I would have to say just for myself that I disagree with premise number one. I don't have any *fear* of introverts and I certainly don't have the *gang mentality* when I'm in a group of other extroverts. As one person said of me, 'I know when you speak it will be original and *un-bandwagoney* even if I don't agree with you.' That works for me, it's just the effect I am going for.

I do agree with premise number two. I've learned not to just bulldoze ahead and say the first thing that comes to mind but it's hard sometimes. I see things in black and white and I want to 'get-er-done' but stopping to listen once in awhile, while it sometimes hurts, it often helps.

With premise number three, I believe that it takes both to keep the boat afloat.


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## Lily Mia (Apr 24, 2012)

sheiler1963 said:


> I would have to say just for myself that I disagree with premise number one. I don't have any *fear* of introverts and I certainly don't have the *gang mentality* when I'm in a group of other extroverts. As one person said of me, 'I know when you speak it will be original and *un-bandwagoney* even if I don't agree with you.' That works for me, it's just the effect I am going for.
> 
> I do agree with premise number two. I've learned not to just bulldoze ahead and say the first thing that comes to mind but it's hard sometimes. I see things in black and white and I want to 'get-er-done' but stopping to listen once in awhile, while it sometimes hurts, it often helps.
> 
> With premise number three, I believe that it takes both to keep the boat afloat.


I would agree whole heartedly with all that you have said. The stuff I mentioned is generic and everyone's own individualities would make them unique individually, much like star sign profiles.

I've done some studies in this area and have some interesting stuff, if your not aware yourself:

Extrovert's and introvert's smell different!  Allow me to explain.

Perfumes/after shaves - Their smell is referred to as a note. I imagine this like a musical note. Complex notes smell "Musky" and simple notes smell "Rosy".

Extroverts generally choose simple notes.
Introverts generally choose complex notes.

Try the above experiment with yourself and people you know.

Extroverts have tidy desks at work, introverts have untidy desks (though they know where everything is).

There a lot of behavioural elements that you can deduce with trained eyes and noses even before you speak to someone.

These again are general things much like star signs.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Yes, they are generalizations and so definitely not true for everyone.

My DH and I are both introverts.  Neither of us can stand perfume of any sort and we're both fairly obsessive about keeping our work areas neat and uncluttered.


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Pawz4me said:


> Yes, they are generalizations and so definitely not true for everyone.
> 
> My DH and I are both introverts. Neither of us can stand perfume of any sort and we're both fairly obsessive about keeping our work areas neat and uncluttered.


Yes - I'd have to agree. Like most generalizations, they break down quickly when faced with actual individuals. LOL
I don't "do" perfume at this point (allergies) but when I did (and on occasion do) I prefer clean, simple fragrances, esp. citrus. Literally can't stand musky perfumes.

Oh, yeah. I'm an introvert. But most people confuse me with an extrovert because when I'm nervous, I talk a lot. A LOT.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Pawz4me said:


> Yes, they are generalizations and so definitely not true for everyone.
> 
> My DH and I are both introverts. Neither of us can stand perfume of any sort and we're both fairly obsessive about keeping our work areas neat and uncluttered.


Agree - DH & I are both introverts as well. I like perfume, but musky stuff makes me gag (I've had to ask him to stop buying the musk scented deodorants). I'm a hot mess - totally disorganized - he's very organized & neat. Both our daughters are born introverts, although as military brats they learned to function as extroverts - but one's organized like her dad, the other....isn't.  My sister is an extrovert, she's just as disorganized as I am (totally unlike our mom, who never quite understood that about us!).

That's where the other parts of the Myers-Briggs personality equation play in - it isn't all about introversion/extroversion, it's about what's paired with those factors.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

I just stumbled across some interesting statistics about giftedness in children:



> 15. About 60% of gifted children are introverted compared with 30% of the general population. Approximately 75% of highly gifted children are introverted. Introversion correlates with introspection, reflection, the ability to inhibit aggression, deep sensitivity, moral development, high academic achievement, scholarly contributions, leadership in academic and aesthetic fields in adult life, and smoother passage through midlife; however, it is very likely to be misunderstood and "corrected" in children by well-meaning adults.


Source


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

Lily Mia said:


> My own view, coming from an introvert who changed.
> 
> I was born an introvert and through out my childhood up until the end of my teens I had a very difficult time from extroverts who thought there was something wrong with me because I was so "Quiet".
> The single most hard and painful thing was coming out of my shell to ask someone out, and then dealing with the rejection - which turned into a public matter for discussion - college.
> ...


I would have to argue with the first part of number two. I'm a violin teacher and I'm a firm believer in the idea of attention span being a trained skill. I start students as young as 3 and both the introverts and the extroverts can't sit still for more than a 5-10 minute lesson when they first start. They just show their restlessness in different ways.


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## Lily Mia (Apr 24, 2012)

In regards to people's experience and characteristics, It's relevant to look at the subject of introvert and extrovert with an open mind. 
There are core concepts associated with both and one of the things people should consider is that everyone's character and life experience is different.

We all have the same body parts that constitute us being human. However we are each uniquely different because of our environment.

The analogy I use is star sign's - accepted core personalities but look at the whole as a template and your own individual similarity as a variable.


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