# Your Top 5 Tips and Top 5 Myths



## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

Hi there. Since I've gone from someone drunkenly scouring these boards in search of a solution to making money at writing, to someone who now makes it (for however brief a time it is) here are some pointers I picked up that were good, and some pointers that were terrible.

*Top 5 Tips*

*1. Research Best Seller Lists*

This is how you find out what sells. This might sound cheap but if what you want to write hasn't already been done in some variation, you haven't a hope of selling well. View Best Seller Lists as a guide to your writing.

*2. Accept your opinion doesn't matter*

Yep. Your opinion means nothing. You're going to get terrible reviews (and be pleased you're getting them vs not being read) and every single one of them is going to drain your lifeblood. The thing is, those people on your product page, slamming you, telling you you're the worst writer ever, they have a point. If you're like me, you hate those people, and wish they were all dead, and not even in a play fantasy way. Actually dead.

But the fact is, that's your readership. So listen up, bud. They're giving you the holy grail.

*3. Find a good cover artist*

Steal him or her from someone else who is always selling. If you're doing your own covers chances are they suck. Here's 2 things I know - One, having a great covers can get you more people looking at your work. Two, having bad covers doesn't mean people won't click on it.

Just because you have sales with your bad cover art, doesn't mean it's good. Every day on kboards there's a 'what do you think of this cover thread'. 2 things - If you don't know if the cover is good or not, you need to seriously learn that pronto. Number 2 - If you designed it yourself and didn't pay a lot of money for it, then it sucks. Sorry. It just does.

*4. Price stupidly low*

Roll everything in KU and price at .99 cents. That's maximum exposure. If your'e new, then pricing at 2.99 or not being in KU just creates barriers. Pricing at higher than 2.99 for anything other than a collection is unnecessary hindrance.

*5. Your hero / heroine makes or breaks your story*

Make sure your hero / heroine isn't a weirdo. Make sure they are the most normal and good person you can find. Don't write heroes or heroines who are corrupt or have temptations or flaws or have mental problems. Write the kind of character Jesus Christ would be proud of.

*Top 5 Myths*

*1. Write Novels*

If you can sell 25k for 2.99 then you shouldn't write a 100k story for the same price. But 2.99 is pretty much the highest a new author's book is going to sell for without ... you know... magic stuff...

*2. Permafree works*

It doesn't. The longer your book, the more niche your book, the less the sell through.

KU killed sales and it also killed free. From what I've seen.

*3. You must hire an editor / formatter*

That stuff costs money a new writer doesn't have. The longer amount of time you spend on a book, the less books you can produce. The less books you can produce, the less money you can make.

*4. You can sell at other stores apart from Amazon*

Did you just have a book bub? No? Well, forget about the other stores. Maybe....... For some people. They can debut on all platforms and sell well. I haven't seen it. You would think after all this time, Apple, Kobo, Barnes and Google would have done stuff to level the playing level with amazon.

They haven't. It's UGLY out there.

*5. Writing should be for love, not money. *

Yeah, right.

If you're not making money - who are you impressing? Life myth - money isn't important. Money means everything when you don't have it, and it means nothing when you do.

The worst thing about this myth is that it gears you further in the direction of writing what you love instead of writing for money.

You can be 100 percent focused on making money and spend years at it and get nowhere or not very far.

BUT it is way worse to be focused on love and keep going in the wrong direction like a headless chicken not making money.

The guy chasing money is going to get there faster than the guy chasing his heart.

And the guy who has money is going to be able to afford the time and space to focus on his heart once it's in place. Because everyone deserves a lottery ticket. Even though the winner never collects.

OK - So post your top 5 tips and myths!


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

I'm not sure where you are going with this thread. Per number two my opinion doesn't matter. Keeping that in mind I'll try to be brief. 

There are both good and bad points here, but I would re-arrange the lists. I agree with maybe 20% of what you have here.

"Price stupidly low" is not something I recommend. Nor is avoiding permafree. My best series has a permafree funnel and the rest of the series is priced at $4.99. It makes me five figures a month with a 20% sell-through. I have not advertised since December.

KU is for shorts, new books, or people who need exposure. Its a tool as well as an alternative marketplace, not an end-all-be-all, unless your books fit the model.

Your protagonist needs both faults and things they excel at to be memorable and to keep the reader interested in what happens to them. People don't read the story to get to the end, they read it to find out what happens to the characters. If that character is "the most normal and good person you can find" it will be hard to make them interesting enough for the reader to care about.

You can and should sell at stores outside Amazon. Unless your book fits the KU mold I mentioned above you are simply giving up on millions of potential readers and affiliate money. Amazon accounts for maybe 50% of my sales, the rest are across the other platforms and growing every month.

All books are different. Getting people interested in them can follow many paths. I don't think there are many absolutes in this game, but there are many that come close. Most fall into the common sense category. Editing, coverart, research, formatting. These are all important, but without a good story it all amounts to a well dressed-pig.

That said; Will my way work for you? Maybe, maybe not. But its working for _me_ very well. Find what works for you and discard the rest, keeping in mind there are no absolutes. What works today way not work six months from now.

You asked for a tip. Here's mine: "When at the gym, never take advice from the guy who is in worse shape than you."

My 2 cents. Free and worth every penny.


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

This is going to be fun, because I imagine that the OP is going to get ALL KINDS of pushback on his tips and myths. But, FWIW, here's mine.

Tips:

1) Don't use an aggregator when you go wide. Just don't do it. If you start selling well on other platforms, you're going to calculate how much money you're losing to the aggregator, and then you're going to want to upload direct. Fine and dandy, except you lose all your reviews you accumulated. Happened to me, and I lost over 140 reviews on one title. It doesn't take long to upload direct, trust me. 

2) Related to above - watch out for Google Play when you upload there. That site is weird. You don't really know how to upload your cover, because it doesn't really say. You have to figure out for yourself that you just upload the cover at the same time you upload your book, and with the same button. For those of us used to a button saying "upload cover," Google Play is just strange and doesn't hold your hand. So, be careful when you upload there. I've had books go live without a cover and I've had books that aren't searchable because I forgot to put my author's name in the metadata. 

3) Whether or not a cover really makes a huge difference is....not yet determined. I heard a study on one of my podcasts where the author asked his readers what attracted them to his books. He had something like 14,000 people on his mailing list that he asked. Cover was like 3%. When I first started, I had a really bad cover that I made myself. But I still made money on it. And I've experimented with different covers, and I don't think they hurt or helped my sales. That said, I still like having nice covers just because they're not embarrassing. 

4) Permafree DOES work. I just had to put that out there, as Shane says that it doesn't. I guess it doesn't work for everyone, but it definitely has worked for me and for a lot of other writers, some of whom are making literally millions a year. Personally, it changed me from being the tiniest of prawns to actually having a career. A five-figure a month career. Don't knock it until you try it. 

5) I agree with Shane on one thing - study the top sellers, if you want to become one. While I do think that there is value in writing what's in your heart, the problem with that is that you're going to have to spend a lot of time looking for your readership. Whereas if you study the top sellers and write something similar, your readers will find you (as long as you promote). 

Myths:

1) Mailing lists are the holy grail. FWIW, I believe that mailing lists are WAY overrated. I guess they probably work if you have a long, ongoing serial like Wayne, and the readers are eagerly anticipating your next book. But if you aren't trying to pimp your next book in your serial, and you're putting out something brand new....well, I'm just going to say that my particular readers on my mailing list couldn't care less. So, I guess YMMV, but in my experience, I don't get that excited about having over 1,000 people on my list. Facebook too. Same thing. 

2) You're going to make this publishing thing work if you don't have a strategy. I posted this before, but it bears repeating - you should have a roadmap for what you're doing, and you must know why you're doing what you're doing. Whatever that happens to be. 

3) ACX is a good idea. Trust me, you need to go into that one with your eyes wide open. And probably stick with royalty share. I made the HUGE mistake of going all-in with six of my books, and didn't go for royalty share. I doubt I'll ever get that investment back. If there was one thing that I would like a mulligan on, it's doing ACX. The problem is that there's no good way to publicize them. Yet. Hopefully there will be one day, but, for now, and until there's a real service with a lot of readers eager to try audio, be cautious. Very cautious. 

4) Permafree doesn't work. Just had to put that in there, because it bears repeating that it does work. Maybe not for everyone, but it's usually worth a try.

5) Bad reviews define who you are as a writer, and you should believe them more than the good ones. Actually, this is probably just a me thing, but I tend to believe the negative reviews much more than the positive ones. And this really, really messes with my head and my writing. I hear those reviews echoing in my ears when I'm writing something new. The good ones I dismiss. That's a dangerous thing - don't go down that path. Patty Jansen always says not to read reviews, and, believe me, I wish I could take her advice. Realize that reviews in general - both positive and negative - should carry equal weight. Learn from the bad reviews, but don't write to cater to the people who hate you. Actually, this one should go into the tips section.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Sheesh. Don't know where to start.

No, not all of us who make our own covers "suck." Yes, I make my own covers and I get asked frequently "who did your cover?" I really, really dislike sweeping generalizations like, "if you designed it yourself and didn't pay a lot of money for it, then it sucks. Sorry. It just does." *And btw, insulting those of us who do our own covers and then saying "sorry" doesn't make it okay. It's still an insult, and it's not funny.*

No, we don't all feel like we hate our readers and wish them all dead for poor reviews. It's perfectly fine to agree to disagree. That's life. *I certainly wouldn't recommend wishing your readers dead, nor would I recommend posting that on a public message board.*

Price everything at $0.99? No. No. And NO. That goes back to knowing your genre, knowing your audience, and studying what sells in your particular market.

"Don't write heroes or heroines who are corrupt or have temptations or flaws or have mental problems." Again, know your genre. Readers in my genre do NOT want a Mary-Sue character, and they enjoy a flawed lead character. Plenty of successful stories are centered around extremely flawed characters, throughout all genres. Take time to know what your readers are looking for.

Perma-free discussions are rampant here on KBoards, but it never fails to amaze me how people want to proclaim one way or another is absolutely correct. Perma-free still works well for many, and it doesn't work at all for others. Again, it is about the specific genre and your specific readership. There is no one-size-fits-all.

You know what I think is a myth? All these posts on here from experts who insist there is only ONE way to do anything.


----------



## JE_Owen (Feb 22, 2015)

Just commenting so I can follow this thread!

Carry on.


----------



## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

I'm not sure if this thread is serious. Number 2 really rubbed me the wrong way. I predict a backfire and a mod intervention.


----------



## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

*5 TIPS:*

1. Find your own path. Look at how others do things and select those nuggets that are right for you.

2. Be a little wary of any promotional site that charges $25+.

3. Give your book away strategically. The ultimate goal should be to sell a lot of books at full price.

4. Write about things for which you have some passion. If you're just in it for the cash, go work for an ad agency. You'll make more money and you'll get laid a lot more often.

5. Try like hell to get accepted by BookBub. There is nothing else like it.

Since myths come and go, I think I'll just stick with tips.


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

I want to add something about KU to what I said earlier.

KU seems to be a hard thing for many to wrap their heads around and I think its because many see it as an absolute.

There's a writer here on Kboards who is doing very well using KU. Successful she is. My fear is that the new writers reading these boards see that and think "KU works for her, so it'll work for me." They never ask themselves why it works for her. They don't take into account the genre, length, and price that she places her books into. They fail to factor in the readership she has built up and how she leverages that to keep her readers coming back for her latest work. There's no magic involved, its simply that her books fit the KU model very well. _They fit the KU model before there was KU! _ Instead of asking "It works for her, why isn't it working for me!?!" they should be asking "_Why_ does it work so well for her and how can I do the same?"

Ok, off my soapbox. I'm told I need to clean the garage and do something involving mulch today. Groan.

This thread has the potential to be a informative one, I hope it doesn't digress to something else.

Hey! Annie has a new book out!


----------



## Sara C (Apr 30, 2014)

I kind of agree with half of each point, as each point is conditional.
1) Permafree still works...if you promote it properly.
2) Listen to bad reviews...if they're complaints about editing, plot holes, etc. Don't listen to every bad review. Some people won't like your work. It doesn't mean that it's bad. 
3) On writing novels...this one is just speculation on my part. I know many people have built loyal fan bases with shorter works, but you miss out on a lot of readers who will only read "full novels". I know that just in my case as a reader, I prefer epic fantasy, and when I spend that much of my time reading a book or series I become a devoted fan to that author. I will love Robert Jordan for the rest of my life.
4) Pricing...while I have done well with permafree and 2.99, you really can price more for longer works. That being said, I wouldn't price a 30K book at more than $2.99. Personally I price 50K at 2.99, 50-70K at 3.99, and my new release, which will be 100K will be priced at 4.99.
5) Don't sell on other vendors...I make 1/4 of my income on ibooks and nook, and my sales on each vendor have been going up each month. I recently published to Kobo, and that has started climbing as well. Plus, how often does Apple fail to bring in customers? From what I can gather, they are putting a lot of energy into ibooks, and I really see that market growing in the future. I for one do not want to be entirely dependent on one vendor.


----------



## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

Great points Annie! I loved reading them!

Uh... as to my own points (for anyone) - disagree as much as you like!  Just my stupid opinion, that doesn't matter.

If anyone asks me direct questions though, I'm happy to answer them. And for anyone else thinking of posting controversial truths, just think of the people you're helping rather those that get upset. 

<3


----------



## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

Tips:

1) Do not allow your emotional state to be tied up in things you can't control.
2) Permafree works if you do it right.
3) No one knows anything.
4) 
5) 

Myths:

1) "Free" devalues books.
2) Bookbub is the only marketing option that works.
3) _____ doesn't sell.
4) You must spend $,$$$ to properly publish a book.
5) You don't have to worry about marketing until you have XX books out.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

*Tips:*

Write good books that people want to read.

Erm. That's it, really.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> 1) Mailing lists are the holy grail. FWIW, I believe that mailing lists are WAY overrated. I guess they probably work if you have a long, ongoing serial like Wayne, and the readers are eagerly anticipating your next book. But if you aren't trying to pimp your next book in your serial, and you're putting out something brand new....well, I'm just going to say that my particular readers on my mailing list couldn't care less. So, I guess YMMV, but in my experience, I don't get that excited about having over 1,000 people on my list. Facebook too. Same thing.


Why wouldn't they be interested?


----------



## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

> Patty Jansen always says not to read reviews, and, believe me, I wish I could take her advice.


Seriously, I stopped reading my reviews and my happiness increased ten-fold!

Tips:

1. Go wide. It's worked for me

2. Following from #1, don't pay for promos that only link to Amazon. Well unless it's a really good deal. Like if it's a fiverr promo. But if you are paying $50-100 for a promo spot, you want them promoting your books everywhere.

3. I'd agree with having professional covers. Some people have the talent to do it themselves but don't delude yourself. If you make your own, ask someone who will tell you the truth.

4. If you are selling 1 or 2 books a day, rather than try to use the same techniques as someone hitting the top seller lists, look at what people one or two levels above you are doing. Eg. a bestselling author might get by announcing a new release to their mailing list but if you only have 2 people on your list, that's not going to work.

5. Reviews are awesome. I've got a theory that the more reviews you have, the more you'll get. It's like when you go to a nightclub - no one wants to be the first on the dance floor.

Myths:

1. The 30/90 day cliff. I've had books that have sold more once they've fallen off the cliff.

2. Keywords - maybe they work but it seems like a huge timesink.

3. Subtlety - unless you are writing literary fiction, go for the most obvious title and description. If people are scratching their heads, wondering what it's about, they are moving on to the next book.


----------



## 75910 (Mar 16, 2014)

I'll drip my toe in…

TIPS
1 - Know and read your genre.  Know the tropes.  Know what sells.  Know the pricing strategies.  
2 - You can make money writing short but statistically novels sell better.  My readers want to settle in to a story and peel back each layer.  See #1.
3 - Try and make every book better than the last.  Challenge yourself.
4 - Permafree works.  (In my genre)  I actually pulled my permafree because I didn't think it was doing much and my sales immediately fell.  It was doing more than I realized.  But permafree might not work for everyone.  See #1.  
5 - Have books priced at various price points.  I have books at free, 99 cents, 2.99, 3.99, and 4.99.  

MYTHS
1 - Anyone can make money in romance.
2 - Anyone can make money in erotica.
3 - FB ads don't work.
4 - KU is the devil. (I'm not in it but I don't think it's evil)
5 - Just figure out Amazon algorithms and we'll all be rich.


----------



## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

I'll play. I think it could be an interesting thread, so taking it to heart to share. 

*
Top Five Tips*

*
Your Milage May Vary*

If one thing suggested to you isn't working, try something else. Free works for some people, just as do other strategies. For example, free does work for me VERY, VERY well, but I'm in the young adult romance market, and they seem to take to this pretty well. I also have 12+ books going, and more coming up.

So one person may vote for a strategy and stand by it. If you believe it will work, try it. If not, try something else. Do different things until it works, and then don't mess with it.

*Readers Are Fickle, Precious Snowflakes*

Meaning, you'll be one person's favorite author, and one person's crappiest writer. It's easy for people to look at the one star reviews and lose hope, despite the 100 other five star reviews.

Before you get caught up in your downward spiral, take time to go look at great writers. Mark Twain, Sir Author Conan Doyle... whoever your favorite was growing up. Then go read those one star reviews. As crazy as it is, they, too, get one star reviews from people.

People are different. They have different tastes. Your one stars aren't your audience. It's the ones that loved it.

*Mind Your Own Business*

Taking one from Robert Kiyosaki's books. Your first priority is to write your story, make sure you capture their information (newsletter subscription, app download, whatever), and make sure your books are available where you need them to be. Spend 80 to 90 percent of your work time doing this. The other spend in forums/Facebook, etc. Set up an easy flow system so releasing books happens in a process flow. If you need help, ask how to stream line it to make it simple, or hire out for it.

*Find Mentors, Even If They Aren't Direct*

Love Neil Gaiman? Love C. L. Lewis? Lee Child? Find one or two 'mentors' and let them guide how you work. I recommend two, one author who is two steps ahead of you as far as sales, and then your absolute favorite author of all time, or at least at the moment.

The one author ahead of you, study their market, their word counts, their covers, their blurbs, how they market. (Facebook, try to figure out if they run BookBub ads, etc.) If they update a blog on their progress, it'll be easier. For both of your 'mentors', find anything they've got about writing, the process. Study their craft, their voice, their style. Rewrite their books (for yourself, call it a pet project that will go into that infamous no-one-will-ever-see-this trunk) in your own style. It can help make you think of word choices, plot ideas, etc.

*Read All Those Books On Writing
*
My favorite stop at the bookstore is the how to write section. Every few months, I'll go browse what's new. It's where I find things like Describer's Dictionaries and how to write an ongoing series. You may not use every tip and strategy. Use what works for you.

Those books aren't just for people trying to get into the publishing industry. They teach you how to write well, to get your point across, to make your characters come to life. Learning about self publishing is awesome, learning to write a better story should be integrated into that.

If you feel you don't learn from reading like that, take a class, join a writer's group, find a conference, get that audio book. One tip that makes your writing better can make a difference.

*
Top Five Myths*

*There's A Golden Tip Out There*

This is equivalent to "the secret handshake" to get in with agents and publishers. If you scour the boards enough, you'll soak up that one magic trick that makes a difference. The magic trick is: a voodoo doll unicorn fairy and hard work. Write your books, implement strategies that make the most sense for you, hope that readers pick up on what you're writing. If it's not working, try a different strategy, but keep going.

*I've Got 100 One Stars, And Five Good Reviews, But It's The Readers, Not Me*

If you're writing the books you absolutely LOVE, and it's simply a very touchy subject and you're willing to take that, good. You're doing fine.

But if you're getting more than 1/2 bad reviews from your overall review count (not when you've got TWO reviews or even 10 reviews, wait on this until you've got something like 40 or 50), either it's the wrong category or there's something else. Study up on those writing books. Not everyone has to love you, and readers are those fickle snowflakes, but the majority you need to listen to. Something's wrong, even if they can't agree on what it is. It doesn't mean you're done. It means you've missed a step somewhere. Start over, try again. Keep writing. Keep studying your market/books on writing, etc.

*You Need 10,000 Loyal Readers To Be Successful*

This depends on your goals. In order to be 'wealthy', all you need to do is replace your current income so you're writing full time (or whatever your part time/income dream is). Let's say you need just $2000 a month to stop going to work. If you sell books for $3.99, and just for the sake of simplicity, I'll round that down to $3 after Amazon and others take their cut. (Yes, I know that's wrong math, just do your own, it's an example. ) That's like 600-700 sales you'll need to replace your monthly income. That's around 700 regular readers, not 10,000. 10,000 is nice, always appreciate more, but if you're looking at your first goal, 700, might seem like an easier reach than a higher number.

This is going to depend on what you write and how much you write. If you write a new story every month, 700 may be all you need. Maybe you write a book every three months. Have 1200 regular readers and then the rest that fickle in and out trying your books. There's a magic number for you somewhere, figure it out and make it your first goal. You can make goals for beyond that step, just make an easier to reach one for now.

*You Need To Be Involved With Your Readers*

You can be, if you'd like, but what they want are more books by you. They'll live if you don't say hello to them every day, or chat on Facebook every hour. Answering fan mail can also be a slightly hazardous thing. They'll give you their opinions, try to gain spoilers, and ask a billion questions of you. Sometimes crazies come out trying to find out where you live.  Do yourself a favor, yes, be nice to everyone, but be careful, too. Get a second opinion on an email if there's something that doesn't seem right. Answer who you can, but if the email is questionable, go with your gut instinct and report it or just ignore it.

*Checking Your Sales Page Too Much Leads To Cancer*

While not true,  I want to tell people that rumor sometimes just so they stop flipping out over every sale, every lack of sale over the last hour.

You can't write if you're looking at your stats every hour, and actually notice if reporting is slow over a four hour period. Love you to death, but OMG save your sanity. You're scaring the new kids. 

The sales pages will be there when you've finished your next book, or at the end of the day. Set a time, once a day, to check. I check sales in the morning to get a general idea of what was made each day, what books were selling, etc. It's enough.


----------



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Permafree still works for lots of people and even not being the world's biggest fan of KU my sales and borrows are around 50-50. Also, I price some books at .99, but a lot of authors who don't do just fine. I think you are way over generalizing here.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Note to the new authors. 
There is some good advice in this thread.
Take what works for you and leave the rest for someone else.
Also if the shoe doesn't fit, just put it back on the shelf.  Not everyone can wear 8 inch hot pink stilettos.


----------



## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Tips:

1) Learn HTML and as many tech subjects as you can in your down time. The product you are mostly selling, an ebook, is a website wrapped up. Learning HTML will serve you well in understand what might go wrong with your formatting and also allow you to control your own platform, like your website and social media accounts.

2) Learn basic image manipulation, how to put words on there, how to resize. Reading a few books on graphic design principles isn't a bad idea either as that will aid you in either making your own covers or talking intelligently with a designer.

3) Patience, grasshopper. Most of us who have "made it" worked our tails off for 1 year+. It took multiple books, strategy and a tenacious will to keep going when sometimes the results weren't stellar. Have a 6 month, 1 year, 3 year plan for yourself, a clear idea on WHAT you plan to grow, and that should be # of books out there #1, and then pick 3-4 other ways to reach readers like a mailing list, blog, twitter, facebook, pinterest etc. whatever interests you. Don't do them ALL, be a master at a few you can run well.

4) Learn how to study the market. While this in unpalpable to the author side of your brain, it feels mercenary, it is critical to the publisher side of your business. A publisher KNOWS what's selling and what's not in the genre. A publisher KNOWS the average price of the top 100 books, the top 100 new releases, and even the top few pages of the pop list. 

5) Remember you are a publisher. We really should call ourselves independent PUBLISHERS not authors. This is a business. Learning some business principles is also vital. You need to know your balance sheet, your expenses, if you have a proper license for the photo you're using etc. An indie author just writes, and indie publisher SELLS the writing. 

Top Myths

1) There is a magic price. Sorry. But there are many of us who have sold our book with free, 99 cents, all the way up to $9.99. It takes specific strategies at each price point. You must learn them for the price point YOUR genre can handle.

2) What worked for author XYZ will work for me absolutely. This business changes every 6 months. Not kidding. Either Amazon introduces a new program, there's a major change in the algorithms, etc. Any plan or strategy you are going to try, you need to do some research on the current situation. 

3) I don't matter. I see many independent publishers forgetting about their unique little snowflakeness.  YOU are by and far the most important variable in your success or not. What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? How can you overcome the second list by leveraging the first? There you go, you DO matter. Your plans should revolve around your reality and abilities, not others.

4) Other venues don't work as well as Amazon because they're broken. No, I'm sorry to say that for most indie publishers, other venues do not work for them because they do not promote and push their books on those platforms as often as the share that Amazon link. When you truly decide to stop being a self-fulfilled prophecy of Amazon being your best channel, you CAN see results on other vendors. I motivated myself to do all the work it takes to get the word out that my books are EVERYWHERE by researching that it is estimated that Amazon hold 65% of the ebook market. Okay. I know what I make on Amazon. Am I okay with potentially 53.5% of what I am making on Amazon to just never happen? Um. No. But it takes multiple books, strategy, and time to get a foothold on the other vendors, just like it took those things for me to figure out Amazon's visibility machines.

5) All readers are equal. The readers you need to most work hard for are the readers who will be your superfans. That's like less than 10% of your overall sales. Figure out a way to engage with them, they will keep you motivated and help you spread the word about each new release. If you dwell on the reader who DIDN'T like your book you will fail. Because the readers who did love your book are waiting for your next one. Write your story for them. Be the best you can be for them. Don't worry about the reader who hated you or hated your book. They were never you customer in the first place. 

Hope that helps. Sorry if I repeated any tips or myths. And just my opinions.


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> *Tips:*
> 
> Write good books that people want to read.
> 
> Erm. That's it, really.


Actually, I love you Lydniz, but I would put this one in the myths section. The notion that all you need is a good book to have a good readership is....not true most of the time. "If you build it they will come" worked in the movie Field of Dreams, but, in real life, you need something to find your readers. Because there are just too many good books out there.

Case in point: There is a poster here, I won't name names, but she's now selling a ton. I mean, a ton. It wasn't always so. She worked to find her readers by contacting bloggers and reviewers. And she made her first book permafree. So, basically, I think she went from selling less than one hundred books a month to several thousand. She obviously has a good book that people want to read. But, until she took proactive steps to find those people who would love her books, she didn't have the readership.

Most people are the same. You can't, generally, just put your book up and hope that it's going to sell just because it's awesome. It might be awesome, but you really have to promote, somehow, someway.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Ok, that can go in the myths section as well, then.


----------



## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Well, I think this is one of these 'your results may vary' type things for sure, because...

*Top 5 Tips*

*1. Write Novels*

Novellas and shorts are great, but their true power seems to come from their interaction with your novels. Definitely write a few side-story/side-character novellas to give away or sale cheaply. These can be 'rewards' for your existing readership as well as enticements for new readers to hit that subscribe button. Plus, you know, exposure and such.

*2. Perma-free works*

It does. It isn't the instant golden ticket it used to be, but there is no easier way to funnel in new readers. Make the barrier to entry zero and you will get more people to try your stuff. Sure, you make a whole 33 cents or something on 99c instead, but you will get 10-20x less downloads. Now, when I say this is the easiest way, I don't mean there is no work behind it. You will still want to promote it (on both paid and free listing sites). Your freebie won't work hard for you unless you work hard for it. One of the best decisions I ever made was creating two perma-frees. It is the single decision that led from selling two hundred dollars a month to three thousand, and is still a huge contributed since we've more than doubled that number. In fact, I plan on creating three more perma-free novels this year. But, don't only take my advice on it. Sarah (SM Reine) from these boards often says the reason she began selling more than others was simply from having more perma-frees. Lindsay Buroker recently gave a lot of credit for her great pen name sucess due to makign the first book free out of the gate -- Mimi Strong said this as well with her new mystery pen name.

*3. You must hire an editor / formatter*

You absolutely need an editor. Even if it is only a proofread. Having a ton of negative reviews from people saying they couldn't get into it because it needed an editor sucks. Trust me, I've been there with our first ever published book. Amazon has this neat thing where it automatically puts pup-up review bubbles of commonly said things about the book. Do you want potential readers to see things in those bubbles like 'Wow I couldn't get into this, it's like a fifth grade wrote it. Edit please!', because it does/will happen. Everyone has different levels of self-editing, of course, but I still recommend some kind of edit. This may be a quid pro quo deal with an editor or a bunch of good beta readers, but putting something out that is riddled with mistakes is bad and it WILL hurt your sales. Yeah, it takes time, but guess what you can do while it is off getting edited? Start the next book.

*4. You can sell at other stores apart from Amazon*

Other platforms are awesome. You can absolutely sell on them. However, every platform is different. The strategies you use on Amazon do not directly translate over to the other vendors. For instance, we are pulling over 2,000 $ from Google Play per month. That is just one additional vendor. Sure, Amazon is still the highest percent of our income, but getting ~4k a month from the others is nothing to sneeze at.

*5. Writing should be for love, not just money. *

Yeah, you need to pay the bills (including those editors), but there is no reason to not write things you enjoy/love in the process. It will make your work read better. You will enjoy it more. You'll be happier when finding this happy median instead of leaning one way to the extreme or the other. I mean, geez, if you are doing this whole writing thing just to make money in a genre you hate and have no fun writing in, then what's the point? You might as well go to the corporate world. And if the answer is so that you can work from home, well, there are tons of office jobs out there now that have a telecommute and pay (on average) much more than this. Why kill yourself and screw with your emotions just to write something you don't enjoy.

Find something you like to write, then match it to an overall popular genre or under-served niche. You say that you like writing about sassy, quirky female leads but despise romance or 'chick-lit'? Write that character as a detective in murder-mysteries. Write them in a space station. Write them in Westeros (just change the name, first! ). Find something you actually enjoy, and match it to what can make money. I feel you can do this with basically anything you'd like to write (aside from poetry, sorry future Emily Dickinson!).

*Top 5 Myths*

*1. Research Best Seller Lists (and write what they are writing)*

While it is true that you want a cover that matches what your genre's top-sellers are doing well, your writing doesn't have to do this. I already discussed this in detail in part 5 above, so I won't go into it in great detail again. I will say that you shouldn't pick your genre just based on these lists. There are plenty of under-served niches. There are plenty of voracious reader genres. Find a way to match what you like to write and go for it. Again I will point out the earlier examples. SM made an incredible publishing empire writing urban fantasy (not PNR, like she 'should have' based on the lists at the time she did this). Mimi made loads writing funny, parody erotica to start with (on that pen name, at least, I mean). You can make the kinds of things you love to write fit a broad genre (romance) or a niche (funny erotica) and still do extremely well. Sure, you're going to have to promot and market, but so do the people writing thrillers. So do the people writing contemporary romance.

*2. Accept your opinion matters (reviews)*

When someone is unhappy about something, they are far more likely to shout from the rooftops about it than if they were happy. So, as it happens, when someone hates your book, they are more likely to leave a review telling you they did than someone who thought it was okay or liked it. I can near guarantee that (if you had your book edited/beta-read/etc. so that there are little to no grammar/spelling issues or plot holes.) that for every negative, scathing review you get, there are twenty people who read it, liked it, but that you never heard from. A good example of this can be found with TV, movies, video games, restaurants, hotels, etc. I play a lot of games, and one thing I hate is that if you go to any game forum, there are hundreds of threads to 'fix' things that aren't broken. I'm going to go into some gamer terms here, so bare with me.

There is a playable character in a game called 'Heroes of the Storm' who, against novice players (of which there are many now because the game just came out of alpha stage), is very strong. As such, there are outpourings daily on the forums to 'nerf' them (weaken them). If you were to only look at the forum (reviews), you would see these new players all agreeing on this and, if you were the developer, might change the character because of this. Only that isn't the right solution. Why? Because at higher levels that character is balanced. In fact, they may be a little weak. The hate isn't because the character had flaws, it is because some people didn't like its state and judged it off their first look. Thank God (most) of these game developers do not heed these bad reviews and change things to accommodate them.

How does this relate exactly? Well, aside from getting your stuff edited, if people don't like you characters/plot/etc and complain about it in your reviews.. well.. screw them. They probably won't be back anyway, so why change things to make it better for them? Instead, find those who like what you are doing and harbor that relationship. Nurture it. Don't alienate those who like what you have done to please those who have already left. Actually, scratch that, this is solved just by not reading reviews. 

*3. You have to pay a lot of money for a good cover that sells*

There are incredible covers to be had for 600$. You can spend 3000-5000 dollars, too. However, you CAN get great covers for relatively cheap as well. You can even learn to make your own covers and do it well. It takes time and effort, and if you don't enjoy the process then don't do it, but saying that all self-made covers suck is silly. As far as the cheapies, well, look no further than these forums. There are tons of posts about pre-made and custom covers for under 100$. And guess what? Many of those are great. I know of a particular series here on the boards that was made for ~60 each and all five books of the series are in the top 3k of the amazon store. Also, there is a certain breaking point where a better (more expensive) cover doesn't mean as much. If you have a bad cover and update it to a good cover, you will see incredible results. If you have a good cover and upgrade to a slightly better one, you probably won't. If you have a good cover and upgrade to a great cover, you still most likely won't see a huge difference (reference to Mimi again, there). Oh, deviant art is a good place to commission on the cheap, also.

*4. Price stupidly low*

I have been playing with pricing lately, and aside from the perma-free lead in, I don't think you have to put everything to 99cents to sell. In fact, I think 99 cents (and other ~30% royalty) numbers are terrible. I'd rather give it away for free as a bonus or lead in (as mentioned far above) than 99c.

Also, KU can be a great tool (depending on genre etc), but telling people to roll everything into KU is silly. If I did that right now I would lose ~45% of my income. Will borrows make up that difference? I highly, highly doubt it.

*5.Don't write heroes/heroines with flaws or issues*

This one has to be a bit of a joke, right? The most successful and well-loved characters across all media types are flawed characters. Making unique or strange characters gives the reader a way to empathize (or sympathize) with them. It also lets a reader live vicariously through that character in a way they may not be able to in real life. Let's take some of the most popular TV shows in the last 10-20 years and look at them. LOST - every single character had a major flaw/problem. Sawyer, one of the most loved characters, was a terrible person by all accounts. FRIENDS, a show on the opposite side of the TV spectrum -- every main character had a huge flaw. It is what made the show not boring. It is what makes tens of millions of people love them still and, after many years, binge watch hundreds of episodes they've already seen when it is released on Netflix. 

Look at your favorite book/show/movie - are the main characters without problems? Heck, look at the bestselling books in any genre and check out the character plot. I almost guarantee you that few of them will be plain vanilla, no issues, no quirks, no vice characters.

The trick to characters isn't to make them boring. It is to make them flawed and interesting and then dump conflict on them. Be cruel to them. You're God now.

---
Original Poster - no jab at you or anything. With anything in this new age of publishing, results vary widely and there is no one true way to do anything. Try everything. Explore. Do what works for you. Again I will stress, though, don't do it JUST for money. Don't do this if it makes you unhappy. There are plenty more ways to make more money while being unhappy than writing.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Great points Annie! I loved reading them!
> 
> Uh... as to my own points (for anyone) - disagree as much as you like!  Just my stupid opinion, that doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


"if you designed it yourself and didn't pay a lot of money for it, then it sucks. Sorry. It just does."

That is not a "controversial truth." It's an insult to those of us who do our own covers. Yes, that is a direct response to what YOU wrote, I'm not beating around the bush in any way. I do not agree that it is "helping" anyone to insult those who do things differently than what YOU believe is the correct way.

"Those who get upset"? Now, who exactly is not being direct? I quoted you DIRECTLY in response.


----------



## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

ebbrown said:


> "if you designed it yourself and didn't pay a lot of money for it, then it sucks. Sorry. It just does."
> 
> That is not a "controversial truth." It's an insult to those of us who do our own covers. Yes, that is a direct response to what YOU wrote, I'm not beating around the bush in any way. I do not agree that it is "helping" anyone to insult those who do things differently than what YOU believe it the correct way.


Oh, I'm making a serious generalization. I've seen plenty of self designed covers that are fantastic. But the people who designed them will know they're fantastic already. It's the one's who aren't sure are the ones who need to hire a pro for their covers.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

Shane thanks for posting this!

I am confused about the no character flaw rule. I guess it comes down to if readers want characters they can IDENTIFY with, or someone they can IDOLIZE.

My characters are deeply flawed


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

RBC said:


> Why wouldn't they be interested?


I wish I knew. They took the time to sign up, so I figured they would be interested. But, not really.

However, I think that I hit on a problem that affects all of us - gmail is probably filtering our announcements and putting them into the "promotions" folder. I haven't figured out a way around that, although I'm going to try. I read one article that said not to use any pictures or links and put the person's name in the mailing, and it might go through. I'll try that for my gmail people, although the announcement is going to look quite boring.


----------



## Guest (Mar 7, 2015)

Adam Poe - Loved reading that - In spite of it being the complete opposite of what I was saying, I rarely disagreed! Two sides to every argument!

CJ

On the character thing...

That was my biggest move between a writer that sold small that readers hated and a writer that sold heaps that readers .... hated less.

Seriously, I'm so used to horror that every character is mental, including the main character..

I found doing the commercial thing that people prefer 'blank' characters that they can just empty themselves into.


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> *Tips:*
> 
> Write good books that people want to read.
> 
> Erm. That's it, really.


My tip is: Write books that people want to read.

Because seriously, there is some utter tripe that sells. Like, writing so bad that I can't even read past the first page.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

SevenDays said:


> My tip is: Write books that people want to read.
> 
> Because seriously, there is some utter tripe that sells. Like, writing so bad that I can't even read past the first page.


Fair enough. I thought I might as well make a nod to quality. 

To expand upon my original point, however, although I agree with Annie that it might not necessarily be _enough_ to write books that people want to read, you certainly won't get anywhere without them. Also, I don't think I've seen one tip here so far that some people don't consider a myth, and vice versa. Except YMMV, of course.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> I wish I knew. They took the time to sign up, so I figured they would be interested. But, not really.
> 
> However, I think that I hit on a problem that affects all of us - gmail is probably filtering our announcements and putting them into the "promotions" folder. I haven't figured out a way around that, although I'm going to try. I read one article that said not to use any pictures or links and put the person's name in the mailing, and it might go through. I'll try that for my gmail people, although the announcement is going to look quite boring.


Are you promoting different genre books to the same list? Or the same ones?

How frequently do you email them (promotions not included).

Email lists are whole grail. But they aren't easy. It's work. Authors need to maintain them well, it can't be just emailing people only on the occasion of book release. It won't work like that.. there is little value to the readers then.


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> Except YMMV, of course.


What about those places where there is no mileage, only kilometerage?


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

RBC said:


> Are you promoting different genre books to the same list? Or the same ones?
> 
> How frequently do you email them (promotions not included).
> 
> Email lists are whole grail. But they aren't easy. It's work. Authors need to maintain them well, it can't be just emailing people only on the occasion of book release. It won't work like that.. there is little value to the readers then.


Food for thought. There is really two schools of thought about the mailing lists. There are those who think that frequently sending out missives is spamming, so they only send out stuff if there is something new. And the other school says to send stuff once or twice a month, new release or no. I admit, I only send things out when I have something new. But I write fast, a book every two months, so the list doesn't get that stale. Maybe I should try sending stuff to my list that doesn't have anything to do with a new release.

To answer your other question, I write in the same genre, and all my books are in a series.


----------



## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

Stuff to fill in newsletters, just to throw it out there: Spoilers, frequently asked questions, questions you answered about the prior book, surveys for market data in exchange for a short story or spoiler, book cover reveals, news on any bookshop visits or announcing a sale on your books.

There's more, but you get them used to seeing something new when they spot your newsletter. It's not necessary. SM I think only posts when she's got a book out, but she posts a book nearly every month or two, too. There's no right way, and don't do it if you'd rather produce other works, but if you wanted to try, there's always something.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Lydniz said:


> *Tips:*
> 
> Write good books that people want to read.
> 
> Erm. That's it, really.


Amend that to 'write books that people want to read' (we all know of bestsellers that are NOT good books )


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

My tip:

There's only one GUARANTEED way to get good sales, and that's word of mouth, or even word-of-mouth  .


----------



## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Sara C said:


> I kind of agree with half of each point, as each point is conditional.
> 1) Permafree still works...if you promote it properly.
> 2) Listen to bad reviews...if they're complaints about editing, plot holes, etc. Don't listen to every bad review. Some people won't like your work. It doesn't mean that it's bad.
> 3) On writing novels...this one is just speculation on my part. I know many people have built loyal fan bases with shorter works, but you miss out on a lot of readers who will only read "full novels". I know that just in my case as a reader, I prefer epic fantasy, and when I spend that much of my time reading a book or series I become a devoted fan to that author. I will love Robert Jordan for the rest of my life.
> ...


Great advice. What genre(s) are you writing in?


----------



## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

*Tips*
There are no right or wrong ways, just different ways.

*Myths*
Anything that begins with 'You _must_ do this' or 'You _mustn't_ do that'.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Tip:

*Genre (and sub-subgenre) matters in everything:*

permafrees
how polished your covers need to be
flawed vs empty-carton characters
newsletters vs new release notifications
pricing at .99 vs 2.99, 3.99, 4.99 or even 9.99
advertising sites that work
length of story including shorts vs novels vs serials
how much editing and polishing you need
promo activities - i.e. blog tour companies are geared toward romance and almost none promote thrillers well
amount of engagement readers like 
if a series should follow the main character or the universe
where you will find your readers, or if they will find you via bestseller lists
whether you need a 'platform' or not (for non-fiction, you often do, for fiction, maybe not)
if your story should be plot-driven or character driven

...and everything else people debate about

Whenever you read a tip, take into account the genres the writer has published in. Ask them, if you can't tell. This makes such a big difference, but newbies have no way of knowing that at first. I wasted a lot of time and effort following advice from romance writers and trying to apply it to children's books. Guess what? That didn't work so well.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

#1 TIP:

READ KBOARDS


----------



## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShaneJeffery said:


> *5. Writing should be for love, not money. *
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> ...


It's not an either/or proposition. If you're only writing for money, you're pretty foolish because this is a very risky industry to be in if you don't love what you do. There are plenty of easier ways to make money, including ways that offer more job security and benefits like health care.

You have to love writing and you have to love what you write. Otherwise, what makes writing for a living any different from sitting in a cubicle? You're still doing something you hate just to make a buck. Except with writing, that buck could stop coming at any second and you don't get any benefits.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Only one tip (which encompasses a whole lot of stuff):

If you're in your writing time, and you're not writing, religiously apply the WIBBOW rule (would I be better off writing).

Cull or outsource everything that isn't writing and that isn't gaining you extra sales for the amount of time spent.

Also, don't engage in activities that actively stop you writing. Forum battles is one such thing. I'd also add reading reviews, at least for me. Don't engage in any activity that will make you feel bad about your writing.

Everything stops if you're not writing.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

OK, tip two:

Remember to have goofing off time. Like me now on a Sunday morning. Don't feel bad about having off time.

(Excuse crappy typing on tablet)


----------



## Northern pen (Mar 3, 2015)

ebbrown said:


> "if you designed it yourself and didn't pay a lot of money for it, then it sucks. Sorry. It just does."
> 
> That is not a "controversial truth." It's an insult to those of us who do our own covers. Yes, that is a direct response to what YOU wrote, I'm not beating around the bush in any way. I do not agree that it is "helping" anyone to insult those who do things differently than what YOU believe is the correct way.
> 
> "Those who get upset"? Now, who exactly is not being direct? I quoted you DIRECTLY in response.


Not a mind reader but pretty sure he was just making a generalization for the 90% of people that make their own covers and suck at it. Doesn't take long looking through amazon to see a boat load of them.

you would certainly be an exception to the rule.... Love your covers and there are several other writers on these forums with high skill level .You should not be taking offense to his post, if anything it is a compliment that your work proves him wrongish


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> It's not an either/or proposition. If you're only writing for money, you're pretty foolish because this is a very risky industry to be in if you don't love what you do. There are plenty of easier ways to make money, including ways that offer more job security and benefits like health care.
> 
> You have to love writing and you have to love what you write. Otherwise, what makes writing for a living any different from sitting in a cubicle? You're still doing something you hate just to make a buck. Except with writing, that buck could stop coming at any second and you don't get any benefits.


This is the best comment in this entire thread. I couldn't agree more or say it better. The moment I stop writing what I love is the moment I get a day job.


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with the person who said to take what works and leave the rest. _What works for one author won't necessarily work for another, even in the same genre._

*TIPS
Treat it like a business LONG before it ever is one.* I treated it that way for two years before going full time, and I know I wouldn't have gotten where I am without doing so.

*Have a specific writing time, and stick to it. Even if it means getting up at 4am.* Writing and publishing takes hard work and sacrifice. If you think it's going to be easy, you'll find yourself discouraged and disappointed.

*Give books away. And lots of them.* It's called being discovered. If you have the most awesome series, but no one will give it a chance, what's the point?

*Try crazy things.* You never know what works, and even if half of what you try fails, half won't! Take risks and have FUN.

*Be an artist and a businessperson.* Be an artist when you write. Turn that part of your brain off when it comes to marketing (cover design, blurb writing, promotions, etc.)

*MYTHS
You need to be accepted by BookBub to have success. * I've just gone full time, and have only ever been rejected by Bookbub.

*You should receive your money's worth from a promo.* The success or failure of a promo is NOT if you got your money's worth from it _immediately_. If you "lost" fifty bucks, but gained a handful of fans...you're going to eventually make your money back, plus more...eventually. This mindset also keeps people from trying new things. Some things work, others fail, but you'll probably be surprised which is which.

*KU is the devil.* It works for some, but not others. In my experience, it works for a time, but then I need to go wide. I love using the free promo days. I think (my opinion) that it's a great tool for new authors. Even an author with a new series or genre. I genre-jump, and find that it's really helpful for new stuff. My oldest series isn't going to touch KU unless I write another novella and give it to my newsletter fans before putting it in KU. My non-Amazon fans would probably revolt.

*If you aren't a pro designer, don't create your own covers.* I've made most of my covers myself, and I've received tons of compliments on them. My sales have also gone way up since I switched. I use Derek Murphy's DIY Book Cover Design. Also, read his book on cover design. Awesome stuff!

*You're a sell-out if you're in it for the money.* If you can make a living at what you LOVE...that's called a dream come true! If it's all about money, maybe you shouldn't be writing books. But if you love it, more power to you if you can also be a savvy businessperson and make it into a living.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Not sure if number 5 is a joke or not....if so it's a bad one. 

Don't write heroes that are "weird" or have "mental problems"? First off, aside from the utterly offensive nature in which this "tip" is worded, that pretty much goes against every great work of literature in human history. I've been doing this for some time. I've learned from some of the best. Writing Mary Sue characters is actually something every successful writer and creative writing teacher will tell you NOT to do. 

I'm looking over the titles that I recognize on the bestseller lists, the ones I've read, all of them have less than perfect characters. People want to connect with the characters, whether it's film or books, they want to recognize a piece of themselves. Will Tony Soprano go down in history as one of the finest television characters because he was a family man and hit church 3 times a week? No. He'll go down in history because he was a family man with a lot of flaws, many of them familiar. What about Walter White? Gone Girl, Misery, IT, Shantaram, every book by George Martin and Joe Abercrombie...the bread and butter is the flawed characters we meet on the page. 

I don't know many people that want white washed soap box dwellers in their personal lives, I can't imagine they'd want to read about them on the page. There's a lot of us out there that are "weird" and that have "mental problems" that enjoy seeing our struggles tackled in the art we consume.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I think everyone just needs to do what works for them. I do my own covers. I need someone to proofread my stuff. I don't ever look at the best sellers list. I refuse to spam links on social media. KU works for me. I can see why people use permafree, because it works. I don't know HTML and have no inclination to learn. Almost all of my characters should be committed (or incarcerated). I write for fun and money. I don't write anything that could ever win an award. I don't want to change the world. I just want to entertain people. I don't think simply writing a good book is enough. I have no idea why some stuff takes off and other stuff doesn't. On a personal level, I get why Harry Potter rules the world. I love it. I find Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey completely out of my entertainment wheelhouse. I have no idea why people like that stuff. People can't do all the same things because what works for one person will not work for another. Now I shall return to my previously scheduled outline.


----------



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

JV said:


> Not sure if number 5 is a joke or not....if so it's a bad one.
> 
> Don't write heroes that are "weird" or have "mental problems"? First off, aside from the utterly offensive nature in which this "tip" is worded, that pretty much goes against every great work of literature in human history. I've been doing this for some time. I've learned from some of the best. Writing Mary Sue characters is actually something every successful writer and creative writing teacher will tell you NOT to do.
> 
> ...


I was thinking it was a joke. If your character has no flaws whatsoever he/she would be pretty darned boring in my opinion.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

katrina46 said:


> I was thinking it was a joke. If your character has no flaws whatsoever he/she would be pretty darned boring in my opinion.


I think Shane may mean a "shallow" character versus one that is deep and complex (which usually includes flaws).

If someone just wants a quick and easy story to read, without all the potential complications of humanity, maybe best to write shallow characters?


----------



## I_Love_Vampires (Dec 1, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> *Tips:*
> 
> Write good books that people want to read.
> 
> Erm. That's it, really.


Whoop, there it is!


----------



## Guest (Mar 8, 2015)

I don't mean shallow. I mean just ordinary, likable, morally sound people. Mm. Shallow compared to some characters but not so much to others.

I agree with JV, especially in terms of what makes good fiction. But from my own personal experience, I went from poor sales and bad reviews to good sales and good reviews by having 'good' characters rather than characters every bit as complex as the story itself. In a year or two, maybe I'll have a better understanding / explanation of the boundaries here.


----------



## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Just my 2 cents. 
Complex anti-heroes can make great characters. Most of the books I read in the romance genre have anti-heroes or complex characters with certain issues. Romance is full of alpha males who are not the nicest guys at the beginning of the book but change or grow into more pleasant guys by the end of the book. Some readers fall in love with these guys. Go look on goodreads at the best book boyfriends, they are not particuarly nice guys to start with. I have only written a couple books but i have written anti-heroes, my readers seem to love them.

I love what *Stacy Claflin* wrote on this topic. Thats good general advice.


----------



## Guest (Mar 8, 2015)

carinasanfey said:


> I'd just like to point out that Mr H Potter went through a period of angry irrationality, severe teenage-boy angst and believing the world was out to get him in his fifth and sixth years at Hogwarts (when, in fact, it was mainly just Voldemort and Umbridge who were out to get him), yet somehow, we still love him (mostly).


What I'm saying is, don't make Draco the hero.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> What I'm saying is, don't make Draco the hero.


If you do it right, he would make an excellent hero.


----------



## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

> But from my own personal experience, I went from poor sales and bad reviews to good sales and good reviews by having 'good' characters rather than characters every bit as complex as the story itself. In a year or two, maybe I'll have a better understanding / explanation of the boundaries here.


I think in romance you can have a male lead with all kinds of character flaws but the female not so much. Sure she can have character flaws but they have to be the right kind. The reader wants to identify with her so if your female MC is mean or petty, they don't like it. My sister and I were talking last night about what a great character Bridget Jones was. She was so flawed but they were flaws most women identify with.


----------



## David Dire (Feb 6, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> What I'm saying is, don't make Draco the hero.


I'm guessing the character thing comes down to making your character likable. He can be flawed but still has to have some redeeming characteristics people can relate to somehow or no one wants to follow his story.

I think it's probably in the execution of the piece. A fine balance.

Speaking of execution, 'American Psycho' is a good example. Although Patrick Bateman is horrible beyond belief, there is something about him. The writing is, admittedly, amazing, but I think it's more about some of his unspoken observations of the superficiality in the world - glaringly hypocritical - that people can also see.

I think that's the real hook of American Psycho. A train wreck of a character you just can't look away from. It's hard to read that book, but even harder to put it down.


----------



## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> What I'm saying is, don't make Draco the hero.


I think some author (was it Cassandra Clare?) started out writing fan fiction with Draco as one of the main characters. She then took her characters from the fan fiction, evolved them and put them into her own world to great success. And the Draco-character was a fan favorite.

Having a relatively bland main character can work. I think the idea is that the reader can relate to them, so they put themselves in their shoes and can then enjoy the adventures by imagining themselves in the story, getting the thrills without facing the dangers. If the main character is a sociopath that does terrible things that the reader can't relate to, then the book is a whole different experience for the reader. I have sometimes given up on a book early on when the main character seems to do terrible things early on because I haven't been engaged and don't want to spend time with such an awful character (Irvine's Filth; A fantasy book where prisoners are murdered in cold blood in the first chapter)

However, great writers can certainly get readers engaged with morally dubious characters. GRRM is obviously a great example, where Jaime Lannister can throw a child out of a window early on in the series and then become a fan favorite. But I don't think Game of Thrones would have the same popularity if the POV closely followed Cersei and Jaime in the early chapters instead of the Starks. There's a balancing act, but give me Batman over Superman as a character any day of the week.


----------



## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

kathrynoh said:


> I think in romance you can have a male lead with all kinds of character flaws but the female not so much. Sure she can have character flaws but they have to be the right kind. The reader wants to identify with her so if your female MC is mean or petty, they don't like it. My sister and I were talking last night about what a great character Bridget Jones was. She was so flawed but they were flaws most women identify with.


This hits the nail on the head, I believe. A romance reader wants to *live* through the romance story, she wants to be the female main character. Cersei Lannister is a fantastic character, but she would make the worst lead character in a romance. Other genres would have similar issues. Katniss Everdeen has lot of flaws (some are annoying) but the story wouldn't have been as popular if one of her flaws was that she was too bloodthirsty and wanted to kill everyone to win the Games.


----------



## David Dire (Feb 6, 2015)

David Dire said:


> Patrick *Bateman* is horrible beyond belief





David J Normoyle said:


> *Batman* over Superman as a character any day of the week.


Batman/Bateman = Christian Bale. Funny... I'd never noticed that before. Destiny.


----------



## Shei Darksbane (Jan 31, 2015)

Randall Wood said:


> Your protagonist needs both faults and things they excel at to be memorable and to keep the reader interested in what happens to them. People don't read the story to get to the end, they read it to find out what happens to the characters. If that character is "the most normal and good person you can find" it will be hard to make them interesting enough for the reader to care about.


I am so glad someone else said this.

I read the OP's post and couldn't really stomach that line about heroes. As a reader.
Are you kidding me?? My favorite series are ones I fell in love with because the main character WAS FLAWED. Not because he was perfect.
You know which superhero I have NO love for? Superman. Too perfect. Not enough flaws.

You know which fictional character I adore? Harry Dresden: So flawed. Much problems. Wow. Best character.

I'm a newb author, but I've read a lot of books, and frankly, I've never cared for "perfect heroes". Generally that just makes me mad and unlikely to finish your book or buy anything you write again.


----------



## BlueGen (Jun 14, 2014)

Ooooh, this is a fun thread. This made me stop and think. Here are my gems of wisdom

*TIPS*

*1. Never. Read. Reviews.* Unless you have a very thick skin and can take abuse. If not, just don't be tempted to look. You will be a far happier person. You can always get your husband/wife/mum to keep an eye on reviews and email you any particularly yummy ones.

*2. Pay for editing. *Failing that, get several clever friends to proofread your work. Then get them all to do it again.

*3. You can lead a reader to books, but you can't make him/her buy*. Case in point: my second book is the best thing I have ever written. It took me aaaaages to finish. It is my pride and joy, my favourite child. But nobody blimmin well wants to read it! It is second in the series to one of my most successful titles, has a similar cover and the same branding to the first so it gets plenty of exposure. But I am lucky to shift 50 copies a month.

Another title I knocked out in a week sells enough to pay all my bills and then some.

*MYTHS*

*1. You need Bookbub to be a success.*
I have never, ever done a Bookbub. They didn't even send a reply to my first request for a spot and I'm still sulking at them. I still manage to make five figures a month.

*2. You need a gazillion books to be a success*
I have only eight titles.

*3. You need to be constantly promoting*
I hardly ever promote. Sometimes I'll do a Select Countdown, just to see what happens. But I'm not sure whether paid promotion has ever paid for itself. Plus&#8230; it messes up your alsoboughts.

*4. You need to be prepared to give your books away*
I have never done a free promotion. Probably never will.

*5. You will sell more in the US than anywhere else*
60% of my sales come from the UK. The percentage is even higher with paperbacks. I wish I knew why.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

katetanner said:


> Just my 2 cents.
> Complex anti-heroes can make great characters. Most of the books I read in the romance genre have anti-heroes or complex characters with certain issues. Romance is full of alpha males who are not the nicest guys at the beginning of the book but change or grow into more pleasant guys by the end of the book. Some readers fall in love with these guys. Go look on goodreads at the best book boyfriends, they are not particuarly nice guys to start with. I have only written a couple books but i have written anti-heroes, my readers seem to love them.
> 
> I love what *Stacy Claflin* wrote on this topic. Thats good general advice.


So the "bad boy" alpha-male who becomes "tamed" by a sweet, innocent good girl? 
Is this the basic story line that sells best?


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

kathrynoh said:


> if your female MC is mean or petty, they don't like it.


I am seeing this in some of my Ruinland reviews. My lead character is female and she does some questionable things that some readers are not thrilled about. They have said she is "unlikable" but it's only a minority saying this. Others have said they understand her decisions based on the circumstances.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Robyn W said:


> Not a mind reader but pretty sure he was just making a generalization for the 90% of people that make their own covers and suck at it. Doesn't take long looking through amazon to see a boat load of them.
> 
> you would certainly be an exception to the rule.... Love your covers and there are several other writers on these forums with high skill level .You should not be taking offense to his post, if anything it is a compliment that your work proves him wrongish


Thanks.  I apologize to everyone for getting my panties in a bunch. (Yeah, I can apologize just as fast as I can tell someone to xxxx off, working on the whole passionate/obnoxious personality thing.  ) I just feel very frustrated for newbies after reading this thread and the B&N/Publish America thread. 
Do you know how I found my way to Kboards? It was only after I had been spinning my wheels at several other boards (nameless, but they all come up as top Google searchs for self-publishing) and I kept seeing people trash this Hugh Howey guy. I mean, it seemed like he was the biggest xxxxxx in the world. So after I saw him mentioned, like a MILLION times, I figuered I should do some research and see for myself what terrible things this Hugh guy had done for self publishing. This was unfortunately after I paid over $2200 to have my book edited through a "professional" site recommended/associated with one of those "top" sites, and still had a crappy edited book. I stumbled upon this place, read old threads for days on end, and finally realized the truth. There are plenty of days I know I wouldn't have been able to quit my nursing job and sit home in my jammies making stuff up for a living if I had not googled "Hugh Howey & KBoards." I'd be in a financial hole and given up on writing if I kept following the advice from "experts" elsewhere on the net.
My point is that those of us here have a good perspective of what we need to do to be successful. Although we do not always agree, we have much more insight into the why & how compared to the newbie self-publisher seeking advice. A newbie might google search and see that one post that says "perma free never works," or "KDP Select is worthless (or self made covers whatever!) and take that advice as gospel. I know when I was new, I looked to the most prolific posters who talked about their successes, and I did what they said. 
I just think we're better than that. I think when we have a thread like this, it will attract a lot of internet traffic, and we need to consider that newbies do not yet have the same wealth of information that we do. Newbies will look at the first page in this Tips & Myths thread and see lots of absolutes. 
Yeah, I know it's not my job to care what a newbie might get from this thread, but I unfortunately, I do care. I guess because it was not long ago that I was that newbie. 
Ok, pouring out my heart thing over with. Bahaha. I'd give some tips but they would not make it through the filter right now.   Carry on.


----------



## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

CJAnderson said:


> So the "bad boy" alpha-male who becomes "tamed" by a sweet, innocent good girl?
> Is this the basic story line that sells best?


Yes and no. The girl can be sweet and innocent (a virgin or quite inexperienced in sexual relationships) but you can also have a female character who can hold her own and can be sassy or confident. These books usually have good dialogue. For me* Finding Cinderella* by Colleen Hoover comes to mind. The female has to be likeable, a lot of female readers will 1 star or 2 star you if the woman is unlikeable or too weak in erotic romance.

The male can be cocky and have issues he's not ready to reveal until the middle or towards the end of the story. He has to be sexy and intriguing and as he develops more feelings for the female, he starts to reveal more about himself and becomes a nicer guy gradually. Modified to add, sometimes in these stories the woman helps him come out of his shell, unburden himself of his dark secret, learn to express his emotions and help him to leave his playboy lifestyle behind. These women make these men feel more than they have for a long time.

A lot of the readers i speak to love these complex cocky men but I would say don't make your male character an a-hole. He has to be someone readers could fall in love with. Some women love a bad boy. i see these books topping the Amazon charts and getting lots of 4 and 5 star reviews on goodreads.


----------



## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

*TIPS*

*1.* To use a cliche: This isn't a sprint. If you truly believe in yourself and your writing, vow to stick with it as long as it takes to become successful (however YOU personally define success). This is a business. You do art when writing, you do business when pusbishing and marketing. So prepare to spend some money on promotion. To me, (20 years advertising experience) it makes more sense to do ONE paid promo at a time so you can accurately judge if it did anything.

*2.* Have a plan. You need to have a solid strategy in place. How much do you want to make per month? How many books selling how many copies per day, week, month do you need to do that? How will you build those sales?

*3.* Perma-free works. You do have to promote the free book, and you do need a series for it to work.

*4.* Find some authors whose work you LOVE and promote them as often as possible. Not just because they might help you, but because it helps them. This is a damn difficult business to get a foothold in. Help authors you believe deserve to break through. They may, or may not, return the favor. However, usually when you are generous to others somewhere along the line someone is generous to you. Don't blindly agree to join a group to help promote others without knowing their books are actually books you would be proud of promoting.

*5.* Read what others say works, but follow your gut. For instance, the majority say you need to have a pen name for each genre. This isn't true if you are branding your author name instead of just your books-- but it takes longer and needs more strategy. Even then you may want a pen name if you try a genre which is a far leap from most of your work. I use one for gay m/m romance, as romance is far different than my dramatic works in other genres. I don't want people who demand an HEA to be buying books that may or may not have one, and I don't want people who want angst, perhaps brutality, raw reality of humanity buying books where things aren't so full of the same. You should probably keep the same in mind when deciding pen name or not.

*Myths*

*1.* It doesn't pay to go wide. It does. Oh, yes. It just takes time and being open to new ways of promoting.

*2.* Price low. I don't mean you should gouge people, but more than ever, price IS a reflection of how you value your work. Perma-free on book one in a series works, but practically giving the rest away makes no sense, unless you feel your books aren't worth much.

*3.* KU sucks. It doesn't, but it isn't necessarily for novels (I would never put a novel in KU, but I'm not a new author. Even if I were, I wouldn't, but that's been beaten to death). Think outside the box, even when planning short stories. What are you going to do with those short stories if KU goes away or the borrow rate goes way down? How can they be marketed wide? Plan, plan, plan.

*4.* Keywords don't help. They do, but you need to do them right. Read the big thread here from everstar or eveningstar (I'm sorry, I may have the name wrong and I apologize). They work. They matter.

*5.* Your rating is all important. Balderdash. If you get enough people reading your work, your rating WILL go down, unless you write something very well in a genre with strict formula. You can still find ways to promote your work, there will still be people reading your work. You will never please everyone, unless you only want to sell to people who know you and love whatever you do. I'm not saying don't pay attention if the same thing gets said in negative reviews...but if you want hundreds of reviews and thousands reading, you will NOT maintain a pristine rating in most genres. There are plenty of readers who will read a book that takes chances, without a stellar rating. They read the reviews and decide if it's for them.


----------



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

I know it's been beaten to death on a lot of threads lately, but keywords. Become a keyword guru, because you can be a creative genius and still won't sell if no one can find your work. I've made mastering keywords my goal for this year.


----------



## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

katrina46 said:


> I know it's been beaten to death on a lot of threads lately, but keywords. Become a keyword guru, because you can be a creative genius and still won't sell if no one can find your work. I've made mastering keywords my goal for this year.


yes i think this is a good point and i have been searching for a good ebook on keywords.


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I wasn't going to say anything about the perfect protag bit, but I think I will. Different readers have different expectations. If you have enough reviews, that will become evident. Let's take the main character of my main series. She's been called immature, juvenile, bratty, and other things along those lines. On the other hand, other reviewers have said that she's realistic and that I've written my teenage characters well.

_No matter what you do, you're going to make someone unhappy._



katetanner said:


> I love what *Stacy Claflin* wrote on this topic. Thats good general advice.


Thank you!


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

katetanner said:


> yes i think this is a good point and i have been searching for a good ebook on keywords.


You don't need one. Just look for Evenstar's thread on keywords.


----------



## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

SevenDays said:


> You don't need one. Just look for Evenstar's thread on keywords.


i will look for that thread, thank you


----------



## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

CJAnderson said:


> I am seeing this in some of my Ruinland reviews. My lead character is female and she does some questionable things that some readers are not thrilled about. They have said she is "unlikable" but it's only a minority saying this. Others have said they understand her decisions based on the circumstances.


It's definitely a situation where some readers will hate a character's flaws while others identify with them. I'd say it becomes an issue in the marketing not the writing. You can please everyone but you can let them know what to expect.


----------



## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

*Tip*

_Think of it like sex._ Experiment. Have fun. Find out what you like. Discover what you do well. Be willing to learn.

*Myth*

_Think of it like sex._ Just because you can do it doesn't mean you can do it well. Sometimes the best you'll ever do is please yourself.


----------



## Guest (Mar 8, 2015)

Stacy Claflin said:


> _No matter what you do, you're going to make someone unhappy._


It's impossible to make everyone happy, but it *is* possible to p*ss everyone off.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

*Tips*

*1. Read*
No, seriously read. Read the kind of stuff you intend to write. Figure out why parts ore good and what parts fall flat. Analyze the fandoms. Dissect the thought process of the author. Read parts aloud to get a feel for the cadence. Learn the craft from the actual works of craftsmanship, not from someone telling you what to do.

*2. Care*
If you don't care about what you're writing, if you don't have the feeling for it, then it's going to show. Maybe an editor can hammer some of that out, but it's going to come out in how you treat the characters and concepts and it will hurt the final product. If you don't want to write it--DON'T.

*3. Think*
Sit down and think about the thing you're writing. Think about what it means an can mean and if you're really presenting what you want to present in the way you want to present it. Examine the plot and characters and really think about how much sense they make. Ask yourself if you did thing X because it needed to be done or because you felt pressured or rushed or just wanted to get past it. Be mindful of the kinds of traps you tend to fall into so you can avoid them later.

*4. Interact*
Your readers are the masters of your destiny. Luckily, in this day and age, communicating with them, picking their brains and just plain letting them get to know you is easier than it ever has been or ever will be. You can learn a lot from your readers and by interacting with them, you strengthen the bond you already created through your writing. And from a crass monetary point of view: people who feel a bond with you are more willing to give you money for your work or talk you up to their friends.

*5. Prepare*
As was said earlier: it's not a sprint. There are a lot of quick and easy ways that are all flash and fury, but if you want to still be doing this in ten years, you need to have that in mind now. Protect your rights. Keep your website up to date and under your control. Know what you're going to do if the promos, third parties and channels you use go belly up. Keep flexible and mobile. Research upcoming tech that might change how you produce or how you sell. Save. Always plan as if the other shoe is going to drop in the next thirty seconds.


----------



## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

TIPS:

1. This is a constantly changing business. Read, read, read and make certain what you are reading is current information. What you don't know can hurt your sales.
2. Don't take all your advice from someone who does not have a proven sales record.
3. Don't pay anyone to do what you can do for yourself.
4. Always be available and polite to readers and keep in constant touch - ex: contact link on website, Facebook posts, etc. 

Myths:

1. Everything is a myth until you try it yourself. 
2. It is "not" impolite to ask successful authors you don't know for help. (Could you read my book...and write a review?) Best way to get on my bad side.
3. Readers don't buy expensive books.


----------



## Walter Spence (Nov 22, 2014)

This is one of the best threads I've ever read on this subject, here or anywhere else.

Nuff said.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Caddy said:


> *TIPS*
> 
> *1.* To use a cliche: This isn't a sprint. If you truly believe in yourself and your writing, vow to stick with it as long as it takes to become successful (however YOU personally define success). This is a business. You do art when writing, you do business when pusbishing and marketing. So prepare to spend some money on promotion. To me, (20 years advertising experience) it makes more sense to do ONE paid promo at a time so you can accurately judge if it did anything.
> 
> ...


Here is the thread on keywords.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,205816.0.html


----------



## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

TIPS: 
1 - Only take advice from people who are doing well. 
2 - This isn't personal. It's business. Strive to be the best and be ruthless with yourself.
3 - Research your genre and audience inside and out.
4 - Don't waste time doing the things you're not good at. Get a cover made if you can't. Get a proofreader if you can't.
5 - Keep pushing forward.


----------



## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

David J Normoyle said:


> I think some author (was it Cassandra Clare?) started out writing fan fiction with Draco as one of the main characters. She then took her characters from the fan fiction, evolved them and put them into her own world to great success. And the Draco-character was a fan favorite.
> 
> Having a relatively bland main character can work. I think the idea is that the reader can relate to them, so they put themselves in their shoes and can then enjoy the adventures by imagining themselves in the story, getting the thrills without facing the dangers. If the main character is a sociopath that does terrible things that the reader can't relate to, then the book is a whole different experience for the reader. I have sometimes given up on a book early on when the main character seems to do terrible things early on because I haven't been engaged and don't want to spend time with such an awful character (Irvine's Filth; A fantasy book where prisoners are murdered in cold blood in the first chapter)
> 
> However, great writers can certainly get readers engaged with morally dubious characters. GRRM is obviously a great example, where Jaime Lannister can throw a child out of a window early on in the series and then become a fan favorite. But I don't think Game of Thrones would have the same popularity if the POV closely followed Cersei and Jaime in the early chapters instead of the Starks. There's a balancing act, but give me Batman over Superman as a character any day of the week.


Yup it was Cassandra Clare's Mortal Instruments series. Jace, her lead was modeled after Draco.
I loved Jace and Draco. Actually, I loved Draco more, who doesn't love someone who loves just being evil...for the fun of it


----------



## Donald Rump (Dec 10, 2013)

> TIPS:
> 1 - Only take advice from people who are doing well.
> 2 - This isn't personal. It's business. Strive to be the best and be ruthless with yourself.
> 3 - Research your genre and audience inside and out.
> ...


Ha ha. Love ya, gal.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

I think it's safe to say that all new writers WILL make mistakes. I know I have. But I am learning and it also helps to learn from other writer's mistakes. Life is too short to only learn from your own.


----------



## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

So much conflicting advice. 

For you folks who aren't making a living at this game, when you decide whose advice to follow, go to the poster's books and check the ratings. 

Check the author's Amazon rank if you can (if they're on a top 100 genre list it will be shown bar the bottom of their author page, for example). 

Also, judge for yourself if they're following their own advice.  Do they tell you permafree works, but have no permafree, or vice versa? Do they tell you to price your books one way, but price their books another? 

Etc.


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Debated on whether or not I had anything worthy to contribute. Much subtle wisdom on this board. 

It's late. Let's make it a choose-your-own-adventure: cross off (any) myths:

x) Social media tends to be tiresome.
x) There's a life beyond the digital sentence. That can mean prison if you want it to.
x) A number that is greater than another number is not necessarily better.
x) Life is often described as short.
x) Profit (?)
x) Efficiency is _____
x) Health is ______
x) The ego is a difficult opponent.
x) What does friendship mean to you?
x) This, too, will pass.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Sever Bronny said:


> Debated on whether or not I had anything worthy to contribute. Much subtle wisdom on this board.
> 
> It's late. Let's make it a choose-your-own-adventure: cross off (any) myths:
> 
> ...


What ever happens - good or bad - will not last.


----------



## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

*TIPS

1. Do new things. Go new places. Be interested in things.*
There are stories lurking everywhere.

*2. Get the book written. You're a writer. So, write.*
Unless you're stuck. In which case, go back to 1.

*3. No one can write the book that you will.*
Don't worry about being weird.

*4. Series are great. But not always.*
You can write a standalone and see how it does before committing to a whole series. It's hard to spend a huge chunk of time that in the end doesn't result in sales.
Series are great for branding. But each book doesn't have to follow on from the last. You can have standalones with some commonality for branding purposes.
*
5. Experiment and see what works for you. *
I'd mostly say to go wide if your books are selling at a $2.99 price point or higher. But some books/genres do great guns on Select.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

If you hear about something that you like and that sounds like it might work for you, just try it no matter who says it. You can always change it back if it doesn't work.

I hate the advice to only listen to bestsellers, and also my Amazon ranking doesn't tell you I'm #8 in epic fantasy at Kobo, so look at the person's books, but rather look at the sort of books and the genre and the presentation, and by all that's dear, hold your opinion about said books to yourself unless that person has asked for it. Or unless you want to look like an arse.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

A.A said:


> *TIPS
> 
> 1. Do new things. Go new places. Be interested in things.*
> There are stories lurking everywhere.
> ...


Definitely agree with #4. I made changes to writing style and content for Beyond Ruinland but it's still considered part of the series. It can also be read as a standalone story. I kept the branding exactly the same.


----------



## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I have only one tip:

Don't take advice from people sucking on sour grapes.


----------



## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

Steven Hardesty said:


> Not sure it's a good idea to ignore reviews. Unless, of course, a bad review upsets you so much you can't concentrate on work. Better to read them with dispassion on chance a reviewer may have said something you really ought to consider in your writing.


Tip #6

And this is just me, but don't let readers influence how you write... to a point. Simply because everyone and their brother has their opinions.

I get emails all the time asking me to do *things* with my own characters. These aren't even reviews. The readers simply feel SO STRONGLY that I *should* make these characters kiss, make him do this thing, make her more vocal... They email with plot suggestions, really, these are outlines/synopsis that are so far out there. I get people *simply dying* for me to have one of my main characters have her period so there can be awkwardness between her and the guys. Seriously. Some will want you to write more about lovey-dovey, kissy-kissy moments, and some want you to shoot that same character in the knee. Twice.

Stay true to your story. You may change your story the deeper you dive into it, but it should be your choice, ultimately, to what goes on. It'll become noticeable if you let yourself sway from your original story because someone suggested a different turn and you felt obligated. I've done this slightly, and have regretted it, as it changed how I should have done things which would have made it better, more true.

If you need, have someone else read your reviews, and if anyone actually has something of value, weigh it with your original plan for the story. Your readers can't possibly see the future you've played out in your head. They might have an idea of what might happen, but they don't know your thoughts. Because of this, their perspective is skewed.

Not saying you're wrong, you're not. I'm getting what you're saying, but I wanted to throw out that clarification. There's a difference of someone who knows writing who might say, "this writer should change his pacing a bit to help build tension" over "she needs to go out with Harry and not David because they are meant to be together". 

But you don't have to read your reviews. Get someone you know to check on them for you. Someone hopefully who knows writing and can pass along any tips that happened to come through. This avoids anyone looking at the one stars and having a bad day because of them. (Because I know I can't glance over the one stars... for some reason my eyes go right to the one star reviews and reading one will simply obliterate and fuzzy feeling I got from reading the 200+ other good reviews.)


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

On reviews and suggestions from readers,
Yes listen to them if they say your book is full of errors or has bad formatting.    Double check that book.
Now if it is just "back together with the ex, or why didn't you just kill off that annoying character then remember that is just an opinion."
Someone else may love exes or annoying characters. 

Reminds me of a book I read.  Logically the author should have made it two books, would have read much smoother.  The story itself was wonderful but the way the author put it together left me going ugh, really and what happened to two characters in the skipped time frame.    It was a 4 star book with a slight warning in the review.  4 stars because hey it may have just been me that didn't like the layout.  The layout was the warning.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> If you hear about something that you like and that sounds like it might work for you, just try it no matter who says it. You can always change it back if it doesn't work.
> 
> I hate the advice to only listen to bestsellers, and also my Amazon ranking doesn't tell you I'm #8 in epic fantasy at Kobo, so look at the person's books, but rather look at the sort of books and the genre and the presentation, and by all that's dear, hold your opinion about said books to yourself unless that person has asked for it. Or unless you want to look like an arse.


Yeah, I agree with you, Patty. I DO think we all need to consider the source, but that is a rule for life as well as business. Amazon is only one indicator. Lots of people post here and do not reveal their pen names or any identifying info. It's tough, because I think it's just human nature to ask, "okay, put your money where your mouth is." Yet after lurking & reading for a bit, one can get to know different posters, and judge what advice is relevant or not, even from those who do not make it public who they are.



carinasanfey said:


> Wonderful post. When I found this forum in November, just after I had started self-publishing, I initially only listened to those who shouted the loudest, before realising that there were plenty of people in the background quietly giving out invaluable advice. I think these debates where everyone dramatically disagrees are really valuable to the self-publishing community, unlike the threads where one person posts over and over again saying that their strategy is the only way.
> 
> Please continue to pour your heart out, ebbrown - it's very helpful for those of us who still aren't entirely sure what we're doing.


 Thank you  I truly care about the newbies out there who get taken advantage of. The sheer amount of opinion/advice on the internet can be overwhelming for new writers. The whole caring thing prolly makes me an idiot, but heck, I yam what I yam.


----------



## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

David VanDyke said:


> So much conflicting advice.
> 
> For you folks who aren't making a living at this game, when you decide whose advice to follow, go to the poster's books and check the ratings.
> 
> ...


I'll agree with this minus the author ranking. Back when my sales were dismal my ranking was great. Now my sales are several times what they were and very consistent, yet my author rank is up and down like an EKG and nowhere near what it was when my sales were a fraction of what they are now. I think author rank is the most worthless thing on the Amazon page.

I would instead check their sales ranking in their specific genre and do it on more than just .com. UK rankings are often way better or worse than US rankings and V/V.

Constructive reviews can be very valuable. I had a reviewer point out a formatting error that saved me a big headache. She got a free book. Reviews that try to change your story or writers voice, not so much.

Social media can be good, unless it fails WIBBOW. In the end your fans don't want social media, they may enjoy it but what they really want is the next book.

The end goal of advice is to save time, be it from having to learn a lesson on your own or avoid an unnecessary struggle. (I'm looking at you Google Play), but none of it should be considered gospel. Find what works for you, or things that sound like they might, and do the trial and error. Keep what works, discard the rest.


----------



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

ebbrown said:


> Yeah, I agree with you, Patty. I DO think we all need to consider the source, but that is a rule for life as well as business. Amazon is only one indicator. Lots of people post here and do not reveal their pen names or any identifying info. It's tough, because I think it's just human nature to ask, "okay, put your money where your mouth is." Yet after lurking & reading for a bit, one can get to know different posters, and judge what advice is relevant or not, even from those who do not make it public who they are.
> Thank you  I truly care about the newbies out there who get taken advantage of. The sheer amount of opinion/advice on the internet can be overwhelming for new writers. The whole caring thing prolly makes me an idiot, but heck, I yam what I yam.


It's not always what is relevant, either. As a newbie, I use my common sense. I feel 100 percent confindent in saying if you aren't selling it wouldn't hurt to look at your key words. That advice really helped me start to sell steady and if someone isn't selling it sure couldn't hurt. But when someone says misplace my erotica in romance or women's fiction I ignore it. That sounds dangerous, like an offense that could get you banned and I want to be an author on these boards five years from now. Bad advice can destroy your career.


----------



## Donald Rump (Dec 10, 2013)

My advice: Screw it, just write the damn book!


----------



## Guest (Mar 11, 2015)

Donald Rump said:


> My advice: Screw it, just write the damn book!


*THIS ONE WINS THE THREAD!!!*


----------



## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

A great myth that should be killed and buried:

You have to write romance or erotica if you want to do well.


----------



## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> A great myth that should be killed and buried:
> 
> You have to write romance or erotica if you want to do well.


Shhhhhhhhhhhhh .... Don't let them know.


----------



## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

Randall Wood said:


> The end goal of advice is to save time, be it from having to learn a lesson on your own or avoid an unnecessary struggle. (I'm looking at you Google Play), but none of it should be considered gospel. *Find what works for you, or things that sound like they might, and do the trial and error. Keep what works, discard the rest. *


Best advice so far.



Donald Rump said:


> My advice: Screw it, just write the damn book!


Along with this.


----------



## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

Anyone know what the margin of Romance/Erotica is over the 2nd most popular genre?


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

CJAnderson said:


> Anyone know what the margin of Romance/Erotica is over the 2nd most popular genre?


This can be figured out roughly by the ranks of respective genre books in Amazon's top 100 list.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

C. Gockel said:


> Shhhhhhhhhhhhh .... Don't let them know.


LOL I keep it quiet..and I promo'd your new release on my personal page  Love love love your books!


----------



## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> LOL I keep it quiet..and I promo'd your new release on my personal page  Love love love your books!


Oh, wow! Thank you so much.


----------



## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> A great myth that should be killed and buried:
> 
> You have to write romance or erotica if you want to do well.


Similarly:

Just write romance and erotica and you'll make buckets. It's easy and anyone can do it. Don't even bother reading books in the genre(s).


----------



## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

I know this topic is way too old but considering Take Off Your Pants, the hero MUST have a FLAW and a serious one not just a quite one.


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

ebbrown said:


> Sheesh. Don't know where to start.
> 
> No, not all of us who make our own covers "suck." Yes, I make my own covers and I get asked frequently "who did your cover?" I really, really dislike sweeping generalizations like, "if you designed it yourself and didn't pay a lot of money for it, then it sucks. Sorry. It just does." *And btw, insulting those of us who do our own covers and then saying "sorry" doesn't make it okay. It's still an insult, and it's not funny.*
> 
> ...


I think you've said it all, really, especially your last line. Why people waste their time and energy coming on forums and telling everyone that his experience is the only way, is beyond me. Talk about arrogant!


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

*Rules of thumb*

Writing a blurb

It takes four times as long to write an effective book jacket blurb that is five words long as it does to write one that is thirty words long. But the shorter copy is seven times better.
_Walter Pitkin, literary agent._


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

*Rules of thumb*

Dealing with doubt (Writing) 

When in doubt, throw it out, along with gems, and jokes, and brilliant strokes.

_Robert Lieberman, author_


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

*Rules of Thumb*

Finding Typographical Errors

Cheap paperback novels average one typographical error for every ten pages.

_John Applegate, typo hunter_

(These were written many years prior to e-books and the rise of self-publishing)


----------



## Guest (Oct 22, 2015)

Tips- 
1. Don't take advice from someone about selling books who doesn't sell books. They don't know what they're talking about. They just want people to think that they do. If they knew anything they'd...well...sell books. 

2. If someone who sells thousands and thousands of copies of what they write says something works, don't assume that you, the writer who hasn't earned enough selling your book to pay for a candy bar, knows more. You don't. If your reaction is that it may have worked for them, but it won't work for me, then you may be better off striving toward a different goal. This may not be for you.

3. There is no such thing as luck, and there is no conspiracy to keep you from selling your book. It's you, not them. If you are not selling, it is because you are doing something wrong. It could be your cover, blurb, unpopular genre, or even that your story is not written well. The evil algorithms are not out to get you. If you want to know what's wrong, you don't need to look far.

4.  Get a good editor. Putting out a lot of books is great. But only if they're good books. Putting out rushed, unedited garbage, will get you nowhere. Does a good editor cost money? Of course. But you get what you pay for. This is a business. The investment you make determines the return you receive. 

5. Read Russell Blake's blog. He tells you the rest. The guy is a millionaire. He knows what he's talking about. If you don't like what he has to say, again, this probably isn't for you.


----------



## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

How did I miss this thread? So many great posts, conflicting advice and all. I'm going to come back and read the rest of it later.

One big thing that I think is a myth is: *You need to write at least X books/year to make it.* Not true. Frequent releases can help a lot, especially in high-churn genres with a voracious readership, like contemporary romance, but I've seen people who do quite well with two books a year or less.

So here's the tip: *Don't rush your books to market just to try to make Amazon's algorithms go in your favor.* Take time for revision and editing, as much time as you need.

Also, you probably shouldn't listen to my advice because I sell next to nothing, and not just on Amazon.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

*Rules of Thumb*

Using semi-colons

When in doubt, use the semi-colon; the average reader won't understand its use and will give you credit for erudition.

_Denis Smith, school counsellor_

Larry Cooper's Rule

Most semi-colons are unnecessary. If God had wanted us to use them, he would have put one next to our large intestines.

_Larry Cooper, manuscript editor_


----------



## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> *Rules of Thumb*
> 
> Using semi-colons
> 
> ...


Are these tips or myths? I like semi colons; they prevent silly little three or four word sentences which don't flow. Of course, one shouldn't use them if one doesn't know what to do with them and I don't think you should ever use more than one in a sentence, but I use them all the time.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Doglover said:


> Are these tips or myths? I like semi colons; they prevent silly little three or four word sentences which don't flow. Of course, one shouldn't use them if one doesn't know what to do with them and I don't think you should ever use more than one in a sentence, but I use them all the time.


Found them all in a book called "Rules of Thumb' by Tom Parker. It's quite an old book. http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Thumb-A-Life-Manual/dp/0761150730 It's listed under humour


----------

