# Dear Amazon, what dark rituals do I need to partake in to...



## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

_...average 100 sales per day at $5.99?_

Do you have days where you ask yourself just what the heck you missed in the marketing of your book? That, after a getting a great cover and giving the manuscript the full edit, sending out the tweets and the book blogger queries, and setting up the blog/website, things just, well, move normally instead of catapulting you to the top? That, despite your belief/knowledge you did everything right, things just don't click? 

Because I sure have that day, today. 

I suppose, some days things just rub me the wrong way and I get disturbingly petty for no good reason. I hate myself for it, especially since I could use the time I sit here, brooding, a lot more productively. Still, in these moments I just cannot help it. Today is such a day of being pissed off and at odds with the world for what really is a minor point, especially in light of the tragedy in Boston.

_Opening Moves_ has been out since the beginning of March. And it's not doing bad, not at all. I mean, sales aren't spectatular, but I've already recouped my investment twice over, which is a big deal. So this isn't really a case of 'I'm not selling anything' and more 'How comes he sells so much more?' when standard wisdom suggests he should not.

Through Amazon's "Also Bought" category I found out about another scifi release, this one from April 1 (it's not an April's fool^^). Just today I posted a longer blogpost in which I, among other things, mentioned the paramount importance of good cover art and good editing. If you lack the former, chances are your sales will be low. If you lack the latter, experience suggests you'll suffer from it quickly, especially when it's pointed out in *every* review. So, conventional wisdom suggests both are issues you cannot get away with easily. Or so I thought.

Well, apparently, you can not only get away with both, but also make a good buck doing so. I'm not going to name the book and author (I've got my petty moments, but I_ try_ to not be a complete douche).

There's NO professional editing. 
There's NO cover worth the name.
The blurb is not only riddled with mistakes (yes, plural), it's completely uninteresting (well, to me at least^^). That is a admittedly subjective point, but I've seen enough blurbs being tweaked on these boards to know it's not a good one.
&#8230;it's been online for about fifteen days and for the past few days has sold around 100 copies at _Opening Moves_' old price of $5.99 PER DAY! What the frack, world?!?

Don't get me wrong: I don't envy the guy his success. I'm just more than curious about how he got there.
Kudos to the guy, because the story seems to be good enough on its own to warrant him some positive reviews. I honestly wish him all the best, and hope he follows up with more stories. My puzzlement is more about _what has enabled_ his success than it is about the success itself!

I'd really like to know to which dark gods at Amazon I'll have to make sacrifices to in order to match that.

No, really, I'm (almost) completely serious! As far as I can see there's been zero promotion for this novel: no blogs, no magazines, no ads I could find. And yet Amazon must have done _something_ to land it in the spotlight, because we all know that the chances of a first time self-pubbed author rising (almost) to the top of two Top 100 lists with a cover made in MS Paint are rather, shall we say, _slim_? And I'd like to know just what that was. 'cause I sure wouldn't mind getting the same treatment. 

So, what must I do? Dance naked in the moonlight? Howl like a wolf? Smoke strange stuff? Tell me, Jeff Bezos!^^


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

Yeah, I've seen stuff like that happen before in the romance category (no one here, of course). It makes you want to weep at the unfairness of life. It's a mystery to me how a poorly written, poorly edited book with a lousy cover can do so well... but it happens. The best you can do is shake your head, roll your eyes, and go write another book.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

MegHarris said:


> The best you can do is shake your head, roll your eyes, and go write another book.


While true, isn't that pretty much the standard remedy we have for all our woes here (that, and ice cream; can't forget the ice cream!)?


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it's more about the characters than ever before.

A hundred years ago, people read to experience other lands, other cultures, other worlds. They read for adventure.

Now we have relatively inexpensive world travel, plus high-resolution TV, movies with CGI, etc.

So, we don't need to get all these things from books anymore.

What do people want? Relief from loneliness. Relief from not being a part of something, not being needed. Relief from a world full of injustice. We want to read something that makes us believe in humanity, in friendship, and in love.

ETA: The above was not commentary on your book, but I just had a look at your book. The main character isn't mentioned until paragraph #5. I get that it's a space opera and that other setup is important in the genre. Perhaps some of the black magic is in making the blurb be more character-focused. I don't know what the other book is, but if they're doing that, it could be the difference.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

After looking at the cover, blurb, and look inside, it is a bit of a puzzle.  But the reviewers seemed to have enjoyed the read, despite mentioning the problems.  It's not my genre, so I couldn't make it too far into the look-inside before giving up.

What may have helped is that it's in Select, and perhaps many of the sales are from free give-aways or borrows?


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## Katy (Dec 16, 2010)

I see this happen all the time. 
Totally frustrating. 

All that talk of the good books rising while the poor books sink... not really happening. 

*shrug*


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

And it's their only release! Just tell yourself it's credit card fraud or something, have a shot of your hard liquor of choice and get back to your story or something else productive or relaxing and petting your dog/cat, etc. These kind of questions will drive a writer crazy.


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## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

I've said this before: it's fairy dust. The book is clearly slathered in the stuff, to sell with that cover. A smart publisher would sign him right now.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

I think I see the one you mean: the cover is an image, the title, and the author name printed up separately, then cut out (not very carefully) with scissors and glued onto a sheet of construction paper, then scanned. Blurb has obvious typos. The majority of reviews mention poor writing quality. But most of the reviews say the story itself is good, and the book's selling quite well, thank you very much.

Dunno, SP. It's a bit of a mystery to me. With many of successful books, you look at them and think, _Ah ... great writing, great story, great presentation ... of course it's successful!_ But there are certainly other books that seem (to me) to lack in one, two, or all of those areas and yet do very well. The book you're talking about does seem (based on the reviews) to have a great story going for it. Guess that's the big thing most readers are looking for?

For me, I don't think there's anything to be gained from looking into the matter more closely, other than frustration. I'm pretty sure I'm not yet capable of creating a story so good it could overcome everything else. Maybe with practice.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Dalya, you might be onto something there, if not in regards to _that_ book, then certainly in general terms. Come tomorrow, I think I'll go on a safari through the Space Opera section's Top 100 paid books' blurbs.

Yes Becca, that's probably the one I meant. And again, I don't envy the guy his sales, and pretty much everybody's said his story is solid. I like that. I _respect_ that. I'm just curious about the "how". 

And yes, you're all probably right that I shouldn't spend too much time on this. Down that alley paranoia and paralysis wait in ambush for over-analyzing authors.^^


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## burke_KB (Jan 28, 2013)

Dalya said:


> I think it's more about the characters than ever before.
> 
> A hundred years ago, people read to experience other lands, other cultures, other worlds. They read for adventure.
> 
> ...


I agree, and I see it in a lot of reviews. It might be related to the disconnect of the digital age.

Readers bond with characters and complain if their favorites don't get enough pages, especially in a series, but even stand alone books. I've seen multiple reviews saying they loved a minor character, and it should have been the main character.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

> it's been online for about fifteen days and for the past few days has sold around 100 copies at Opening Moves' old price of $5.99 PER DAY! What the frack, world?!?


On what are you basing the statement that the book is selling 100 copies a day?



> As far as I can see there's been zero promotion for this novel: no blogs, no magazines, no ads I could find. And yet Amazon must have done something to land it in the spotlight, because we all know that the chances of a first time self-pubbed author rising (almost) to the top of two Top 100 lists with a cover made in MS Paint are rather, shall we say, slim? And I'd like to know just what that was. 'cause I sure wouldn't mind getting the same treatment


I don't know which book you are talking about. I was going to go look but my connection at work has been slower than a snail and it is taking three minutes for Amazon to load...and that is before I even attempt to search for anything. But perhaps the author is simply advertising in places you don't look?

1. You aren't going to "find" ads if you go looking for them. Just because you don't see a book advertised on Bookbub or whatever the flavor-of-the-day is for book promotion sites doesn't mean an author isn't advertising. In fact, some authors (myself included) don't ever use dedicated book promotion sites because they all cater exclusively to free/cheap Amazon books. When I advertise online, I use a service like Project Wonderful to target my ads to specific sites that fit my demographic.

2. Lots of authors still use "traditional" marketing methods. They buy ads in genre-specific magazines. (actual print publications, not ezines). Or the author may have a fan following on the sci-fi convention circuit, particularly if he is a regular. Just because the author never had a full length book released doesn't mean he doesn't have a long list of publishing credits. Some people establish big followings by publishing their short fiction in magazines and anthologies before releasing a full length book.

3. Maybe the author already had a following elsewhere. Much like E.L. James used her fan fiction fanbase to push 50 Shades into the stratosphere, it wouldn't be all that surprising for a sci-fi author who has a lot of fans on a fan fiction or sci-fi site to push a book up the chart.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

swolf said:


> After looking at the cover, blurb, and look inside, it is a bit of a puzzle. But the reviewers seemed to have enjoyed the read, despite mentioning the problems. It's not my genre, so I couldn't make it too far into the look-inside before giving up.
> 
> What may have helped is that it's in Select, and perhaps many of the sales are from free give-aways or borrows?


Lots of borrows and lots of sales go hand in hand, so that would boil down to the same question. As for giveaways, I did two pretty successful ones through Select, but neither of them bounced _Nolander_ up to #1,000 ranking. That's more than just a giveaway at work, even if a giveaway got it rolling. The ENT bargain book promo got _Nolander _up that high, but it was selling at $.99 when it happened, not $5.99.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> On what are you basing the statement that the book is selling 100 copies a day?


The book's ranking? Sounds about right to me, though I know there's quite a bit of fluctuation in what ranking = how many sales.

This seems to be a first-time author, at least so far as selling their work on Amazon under this name. Maybe they have been doing tons of fan fiction, using Wattpad, or building audience some other way.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

The author of this book might have a strong existing web following like a popular webpage that they're translating into a lot of traffic for their book.

No magic necessary; it's just the power of an existing fanbase brought to bear.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> On what are you basing the statement that the book is selling 100 copies a day?


It was the number I achieved with the same rating in the same category on my best day. It's of course only an approximation based on my own sales experience put in perspective to ranking.  Again, as I said, I'm actually pretty happy overall with how _Opening Moves_ has done.


> 1. You aren't going to "find" ads if you go looking for them. Just because you don't see a book advertised on Bookbub or whatever the flavor-of-the-day is for book promotion sites doesn't mean an author isn't advertising. In fact, some authors (myself included) don't ever use dedicated book promotion sites because they all cater exclusively to free/cheap Amazon books. When I advertise online, I use a service like Project Wonderful to target my ads to specific sites that fit my demographic.


I used a google search on his name and the name of the book. Except for Amazon: pretty much zilch. 


> 2. Lots of authors still use "traditional" marketing methods. They buy ads in genre-specific magazines. (actual print publications, not ezines). Or the author may have a fan following on the sci-fi convention circuit, particularly if he is a regular. Just because the author never had a full length book released doesn't mean he doesn't have a long list of publishing credits. Some people establish big followings by publishing their short fiction in magazines and anthologies before releasing a full length book.
> 3. Maybe the author already had a following elsewhere. Much like E.L. James used her fan fiction fanbase to push 50 Shades into the stratosphere, it wouldn't be all that surprising for a sci-fi author who has a lot of fans on a fan fiction or sci-fi site to push a book up the chart.


Having written fanfics myself that would have been my first guess, too. But nope, see above. If that had been the case one would find _something_ with even a cursory Google search. Well, guess it'll be a mystery. Onwards to more productive things again.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Dalya said:


> I think it's more about the characters than ever before.
> 
> A hundred years ago, people read to experience other lands, other cultures, other worlds. They read for adventure.
> 
> ...


I _really l_ike this, and I agree totally.
I write sci-fi space opera. Not a lot of real techie stuff, and I don't spend pages and pages describing other worlds.
Almost all of the positive reviews I've had mention the characters and their adventures, not the science or the guns that go pew pew.


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## JGrover (Aug 10, 2011)

I feel your pain. I ask myself this question from time to time. I try to follow all the rules, good over, professionally edited, word of mouth, website, FB page, social networking, I've taken out ads and boy, it's like I'm yelling out to an empty theater or talking to the walls in a padded cell.  
I still haven't figured out how to get more traction. I've published in the small press, in anthologies, in magazines, e-zines before I even decided to self-publish and now It's been 2 years and I'm still trying to get noticed. 

It does drive you nuts sometimes. You look at others who aren't even trying that hard (or so you think) and boom, thousands of copies, some of those writers say they don't even know what they did. A small part of me really does believe some luck is involved. I just waiting for the fairy dust to hit me. Right now, I am luck if I sell 20 copies in a month, that's all titles combined.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

> I used a google search on his name and the name of the book. Except for Amazon: pretty much zilch.


Google search won't pick up banner ads or display ads shown on websites. Webcrawlers only search actual content. I place banner ads and display ads all the time on sites. They don't show up if you Google my name.



> Having written fanfics myself that would have been my first guess, too. But nope, see above. If that had been the case one would find something with even a cursory Google search.


Did E.L. James write her fan fiction under the name E.L. James or a username on a forum? I don't know. I do know that 50 Shades of Gray went by a different name during its fan fiction phase.


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

SPBreit said:


> It was the number I achieved with the same rating in the same category on my best day. It's of course only an approximation based on my own sales experience put in perspective to ranking.  Again, as I said, I'm actually pretty happy overall with how _Opening Moves_ has done.


Books with a higher price tag can move upward a little easier with less sales. The Amazon algorithm is less gentle to lower-priced books. The sales are probably strong, but it may not be 100 sales a day.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Google search won't pick up banner ads or display ads shown on websites. Webcrawlers only search actual content. I place banner ads and display ads all the time on sites. They don't show up if you Google my name.


Point taken.


> Did E.L. James write her fan fiction under the name E.L. James or a username on a forum? I don't know. I do know that 50 Shades of Gray went by a different name during its fan fiction phase.


Shouldn't one be able to find the links between the two? After all, how would author X be able to pull off his fan community success without ever mentioning his work's new name? 


BrianKittrell said:


> Books with a higher price tag can move upward a little easier with less sales. The Amazon algorithm is less gentle to lower-priced books. The sales are probably strong, but it may not be 100 sales a day.


Well, just saying that those were approx. my sales at the same price in the same category (on my awesomely best day  ). Of course, there's a daily variance, so all numbers are guesstimates.


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## Stephen M Holak (May 15, 2012)

I think I know what book you're referring to. One reviewer, with tongue firmly in cheek, said "the ending was a bit too _fairy tail_ for my taste." *And* subtracted a star for spelling and grammar issues.

But gave the book 3 stars.

I'll be out on the ledge shortly to join ya. What brand of beer would you like?


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Julie: 50 Shades was "Master of the Universe" by Snowqueens Icedragon.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> *****: 50 Shades was "Master of the Universe" by Snowqueens Icedragon.


Snowqueens Icedragon? Seriously?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

BrianKittrell said:


> Books with a higher price tag can move upward a little easier with less sales. The Amazon algorithm is less gentle to lower-priced books. The sales are probably strong, but it may not be 100 sales a day.


The Data Avengers found that price is factored into the popularity lists but not sales rank, so I don't think we can subtract any of our guesstimated sales for that reason.

Julie's idea about advertising might account for it, but I don't know ... if you're putting your cover image together with glue and scissors, are you someone who is able to/interested in making an online banner ad? Maybe, but I've got doubts that there's a big online ad push going on here.

Maybe the fan fic thing.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Christa Wick said:


> Julie: 50 Shades was "Master of the Universe" by Snowqueens Icedragon.


Iced rag on?

Ow.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Snowqueens Icedragon? Seriously?


http://snowqueensicedragon.com

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/fifty-shades-of-grey-wayback-machine_b49124


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## jvin248 (Jan 31, 2012)

.
Did you check the other book at goodreads? Many of the top Amazon placed books get there by goodreads TBRs and giveaways, even on 'newish' authors. At least that's where I've found activity that explained a few I stalked last fall asking "How'd that book get up there?". And why Amazon wanted to buy up goodreads...
.
.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I think it's more about the characters than ever before.
> 
> A hundred years ago, people read to experience other lands, other cultures, other worlds. They read for adventure.
> 
> ...


Dalya, I couldn't disagree with you more.

I was draw into the Count of Monte Cristo because the Count was a fascinating character as were most of the other characters, Haydée in particular with her strange and rather twisted relationship with him. The Three Musketeers would fall apart if not for the personality of the Musketeers. The four main characters were diverse and the story would have fallen apart without that element. Pride and Prejudice was set in a rather mundane and ordinary world and Elizabeth Bennet as she deals with issues of manners, upbringing, morality, education, and marriage would be boring if not for the fascinating characters. More recently G. R. R. Martin's characters draw us in while they deal with rape, incest, war and death.

I think you are presenting much too simplistic an analysis of novels and of novel sales.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> Dalya, I couldn't disagree with you more.
> 
> I was draw into the Count of Monte Cristo because the Count was a fascinating character as were most of the other characters, Haydée in particular with her strange and rather twisted relationship with him. The Three Musketeers would fall apart if not for the personality of the Musketeers. The four main characters were diverse and the story would have fallen apart without that element. Pride and Prejudice was set in a rather mundane and ordinary world and Elizabeth Bennet as she deals with issues of manners, upbringing, morality, education, and marriage would be boring if not for the fascinating characters. More recently G. R. R. Martin's characters draw us in while they deal with rape, incest, war and death.
> 
> I think you are presenting much too simplistic an analysis of novels and of novel sales.


Well, however important great characterization was in centuries past, you both agree that it's essential to success now, eh? Maybe characterization is a particular strength of the book in question.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Dear OP,

I feel your pain. 

I've seen books with all of the bad production qualities you mentioned, plus multiple reviews complaining about the editing, yet with rankings in the triple digits. 

I've sampled high-ranking books that had to have been written on a roll of toilet paper out in the woods during a rainstorm then transcribed by three pet monkeys.

I blame our poor education system.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Lynn McNamee said:


> I've sampled high-ranking books that had to have been written on a roll of toilet paper out in the woods during a rainstorm then transcribed by three pet monkeys.


Do you have any idea how hard it was to keep the monkeys from eating the toilet paper? 

B.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "'How comes he sells so much more?' when standard wisdom suggests he should not."


Perhaps lots of consumers don't care about standard wisdom.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay, I just found the book at the heart of this mystery.

My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.

I never oversimplify.


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## Davidmurphy (Apr 16, 2013)

I wish I could tell you. I published my first book a week ago and have sold ten copies so far. It could be the cover, it could be the content, it could be the newbie novel gods having their way with me, it could be that I've simply gone at things all wrong. I will check out your books though. That much I can do.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm sure some of my work befuzzles other authors the same way.
Before I hired a good editor, my early stuff sold like hotcakes and really wasn't that good on an editing scale.
Even today I probably make some writers mad given the number of sales at my price-point.

I can only justify this with a couple of thoughts:

1. A good story trumps everything. I've always said I suck as a writer but do pretty well as a storyteller.
2. I know how I'm going to market a book before I write it. I use targeted blogging, and know specific marketing steps before the first word is typed. That way, I can fill the story with little details those in the target market will enjoy.

I'm also quite lucky, which is probably better than being super smart and no doubt the biggest factor.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Addressing word of mouth:

Back in 2005, I was a webcomic guy and I wrote a post on the then 'it' place for webcomics that I think applies here.

Every reader is important. Without them, you are just shouting into the void and praying to hear an echo that proves something is there. Whether you have a million fans of five, it says something that you have fans at all and you should be proud.

However.

If you want to be a success, you need to identify and nurture a specific kind of fan. I call them 'viral fans'. These are the people who will not just quietly consume your work and appreciate it on their own. No, these are the people who like your work _really_ like it and wish to shout it from the mountaintops. They go to forums and blast your link out at people like a shotgun shell. When they hear a friend saying they need something to read, they say 'well you know what's _really_ great?'.

Viral fans are your lifeblood. Without them, you can only grow as much as your advertising budget and networking allow. With them, you grow exponentially, because the kind of personality that becomes a viral fan is attracted to like-minded individuals, so when they spread the word, it keeps spreading.

Being able to identify and encourage these folks is the best thing you can do to become a success in a field like this. What's infuriating is, unless you're one yourself, attracting the first of those is murder. And meanwhile, other folk can fall butt first into a big 'ol pile of them and it's like a miracle happened.


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## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

I think I found the book in question. The cover is not that bad, actually. I like it more than the crowded, colorful covers I see in the also-boughts. This one was the first I clicked because it was simple, but not ugly. It sort of popped out at me since it's different from others. The blurb is... well, I got lost in the middle when things stopped making sense. When I read it again, I figured it out. I think.  I'm not the target audience, so I have no clue if it's interesting, but it looks like reviewers enjoyed it. I started reading the sample and found it easy to read. Yeah, I do wish the sentences were written in a different way and with comas in right places, but I still understand what is going on. I checked out the sample of _Opening Moves_ and I think there are some comas missing. I keep rereading a sentence on the first page, but I'm still not sure how to read it right and decipher its meaning. I had to reread a couple of other sentences too because the word order confused me at first. This is purely subjective and, like I said, I'm not the target audience, but I'd always pick the book that I find easier to read.

I guess people buy what they like and what they find interesting. If the story is good and the characters are interesting, I'll read anything. I don't care that much about grammar, spelling or imaginary quality if I understand what is going on. I don't even care if a monkey wrote it as long as it's something I love to read.  There are readers for every book, but not all the books get the same visibility, so it's natural some sell better, some worse. Finding your target audience is always the key to success.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Okay, I just found the book at the heart of this mystery.
> 
> My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.
> 
> I never oversimplify.


Good news. the MC in my WIP is named Jack Smith.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Dalya said:


> Okay, I just found the book at the heart of this mystery.
> 
> My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.
> 
> I never oversimplify.


I actually do have someone named Jack in my current WIP, but he's a horse. ;-)


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> 1. You aren't going to "find" ads if you go looking for them. Just because you don't see a book advertised on Bookbub or whatever the flavor-of-the-day is for book promotion sites doesn't mean an author isn't advertising. In fact, some authors (myself included) don't ever use dedicated book promotion sites because they all cater exclusively to free/cheap Amazon books. When I advertise online, I use a service like Project Wonderful to target my ads to specific sites that fit my demographic.


Maybe I should take another look at Project Wonderful if it'll snag me 100 sales a day.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Dalya, I couldn't disagree with you more.
> 
> I was draw into the Count of Monte Cristo because the Count was a fascinating character as were most of the other characters, Haydée in particular with her strange and rather twisted relationship with him. The Three Musketeers would fall apart if not for the personality of the Musketeers. The four main characters were diverse and the story would have fallen apart without that element. Pride and Prejudice was set in a rather mundane and ordinary world and Elizabeth Bennet as she deals with issues of manners, upbringing, morality, education, and marriage would be boring if not for the fascinating characters. More recently G. R. R. Martin's characters draw us in while they deal with rape, incest, war and death.
> 
> I think you are presenting much too simplistic an analysis of novels and of novel sales.


Doesn't necessarily mean that people a hundred years ago read them within the same context that you do now.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

Maybe everything we know, is wrong.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> Good news. the MC in my WIP is named Jack Smith.


Good! Now, for covers, purple swirls are out. So are pretty fields. It's all about grit and biceps, and people almost kissing. Or, possibly rocketships. Maybe if you could combine some biceps, almost-kissing, and a rocketship.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Good! Now, for covers, purple swirls are out. So are pretty fields. It's all about grit and biceps, and people almost kissing. Or, possibly rocketships. Maybe if you could combine some biceps, almost-kissing, and a rocketship.


OMG!! My WIP has Biceps for sure, lots of almost-kissing, and tons of grit. Rocket ships I'm not sure about, but I could probably fit one in there.

Of course, I'm looking to go totally artsy on the cover which means my book will be DOA.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

SPBreit said:


> _...average 100 sales per day at $5.99?_
> 
> There's NO professional editing.
> There's NO cover worth the name.
> ...


The promotion is right there in the reviews. They were so uncomplimentary, they tempted me to hit the buy button. Never underestimate an avalanche of snarky reviews to get you to the top .


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Gennita Low said:


> The promotion is right there in the reviews. They were so uncomplimentary, they tempted me to hit the buy button. Never underestimate an avalanche of snarky reviews to get you to the top .


lol!


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Okay, I just found the book at the heart of this mystery.
> 
> My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.
> 
> I never oversimplify.


Lol, I saw that, too. But I have a soft spot for Jack, the name. Name of my favorite _Lost_ character. Name of a great Regency fiction character (the one with the boats ;-) if you want to guess which series I'm talking about). Name of my dog because of both.

To add a bit of seriousness, it sounds like the author tapped into a je ne sais quoi, because the cover, the copyediting, and the opening should all be marks against him. Hmmm. Maybe all it takes is to get a few people in your corner--people who like you and your story--so that they can pull in others, and so on. Simple :-D

Jodi


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2013)

Well, that settles it then: there's not a single character in my novel named Jack! Problem identified!


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

I just noticed something odd.  When you click on his author name, it pulls up a lot of works that aren't his.  At least, not on the couple I clicked on.  

Hmmm.  Is that normal?  If not, maybe that has something to do with his popularity.  

Jodi

ETA:  Removed URL, because didn't seem wise on second thought.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Dalya said:


> Okay, I just found the book at the heart of this mystery.
> 
> My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.


Proof: Lee Child's Jack Reacher series

I bet if he'd named the character Barney Reacher or Ted Reacher, those books would have flopped!


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Jodi said:


> I just noticed something odd. When you click on his author name, it pulls up a lot of works that aren't his. At least, not on the couple I clicked on.
> 
> Hmmm. Is that normal? If not, maybe that has something to do with his popularity.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is weird.

I thought you had to be listed as an author to claim a book on your Author page.

ETA: Very strange! I went back to look again, and his author page is gone.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> Maybe everything we know, is wrong.


There's a seeker born every minute, you know.

Jodie: that wouldn't Lucky Jack, for all love? Big fellow, medal of the Nile in his buttonhole, propensity to beat the time with one hand? Hangs around with a deep old file named Stephen? 

I dunno, I'm trying to keep my head down and my butt in my desk chair. I've lost three weeks to pneumonia and I've got a lot of catch-up to do. The harder you work, the luckier you get or so I've heard.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

MeiLinMiranda said:


> Jodie: that wouldn't Lucky Jack, for all love? Big fellow, medal of the Nile in his buttonhole, propensity to beat the time with one hand? Hangs around with a deep old file named Stephen?


Hah, someone else knows the series. It's one of those worlds like Georgette Heyer's, where you learn by immersion but you end up loving it. I only got part way through the series, but I need to restart, after I reclaim the books from my father.

Jodi


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

Sometimes I think people just have an extensive network of family and friends -- who actually buy their books.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

I wonder if the author of that book is ex-military and he has a whole battalion of buddies and others he served with to support his book? Maybe his fandom is in the service, and not online?

Incidentally, I also love the name Jack, and use it often, and I also have a horse named Jack in my current WIP.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Don't forget Jack Bauer and his Magic Satchel! I miss him saving the world. Come back, Jack! I promise to trust you when you say 'trust me'!


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

So, in the general case, are consumers wrong if their purchasing behavior is at odds with the wishes of independent authors, reviewers, and interested observers? What's the problem?


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

I hear you. It's not about THEM, it's more how it makes you question yourself and your books. You give yourself reasons why your book isn't taking off, and then you get slapped in the face with other books taking off despite the same issues.
Like- It's your first and only novel out, you just need more books in order to sell well. Nope, see plenty of first and only books go big.
But maybe they had an established platform first? If they do, it can't be found, and established platform doesn't mean making it big. Exhibit A, my facebook followers (13K of them). Exhibit B, my book rankings (hides in shame).
And you keep going through reasons and excuses until you get to the ultimate conclusion that your work just stinks and then head for the hard liquor.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

Selina Fenech said:


> I hear you. It's not about THEM, it's more how it makes you question yourself and your books. You give yourself reasons why your book isn't taking off, and then you get slapped in the face with other books taking off despite the same issues.
> Like- It's your first and only novel out, you just need more books in order to sell well. Nope, see plenty of first and only books go big.
> But maybe they had an established platform first? If they do, it can't be found, and established platform doesn't mean making it big. Exhibit A, my facebook followers (13K of them). Exhibit B, my book rankings (hides in shame).
> And you keep going through reasons and excuses until you get to the ultimate conclusion that your work just stinks and then head for the hard liquor.


I hit bottom yesterday, ironically, the same day I found out that my book did not move on to the the semi finals of ABNA (and really, whittling from 25 books down to 5, I didn't actually expect to make it). I am having difficulty writing, my brain is constantly in marketing mode and I am wasting my life away worrying about it. So, when one hits bottom and there is no other place to go but the bottle (although a glass of wine - ok two worked for me), I decided to let the marketing go. The books will be floating out there whether I market or not so I am taking a break. A long break. I am actively taking the spring and summer off and will dip my toe back in next fall because, guess what, the books will still be there and by then, I should have more to offer. My goal is to STOP checking KDP, STOP checking for reviews, and, sigh, STOP cruising WC all of the time.

Of course, this starts AFTER I receive my Publishers Weekly review and run 2 ad days at the end of the month. Then, it's on, Baby! And I feel suddenly free.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Hey, I have an important character named Jack in my book! Something is wrong though. Jack isn't helping my sales. Could it be because Jack is a nickname for the name on his birth certificate, John Edward Andrews? Maybe I should have named him Hugh.


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## Cappy (Sep 6, 2011)

I think 'Jack' is very 2012. 'Kurt' is going to be 2013


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## MT Berlyn (Mar 27, 2012)

Dalya said:


> I think it's more about the characters than ever before.
> 
> A hundred years ago, people read to experience other lands, other cultures, other worlds. They read for adventure.
> 
> ...


^^This will go down with the quotes I love category.



DDark said:


> 1. If your book is that engaging, readers will overlook typos. Good story always trumps bad editing. Yes, some readers will complain, but I can't count how many books I've seen soar to the Bestseller list because readers could not get enough of the story.


This is very true. I think the first 30 to 60 days of release really sets how the book is going to go success wise. There is some luck involved, but the rest is having captured the audience through the story...and the grapevine.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Thayer Berlyn said:


> This is very true. I think the first 30 to 60 days of release really sets how the book is going to go success wise. There is some luck involved, but the rest is having captured the audience through the story...and the grapevine.


Yes! If the book doesn't do something in the first month, it's toast. Very rarely does a book make a run up the charts from the underdog region. I've had a few bump up with price drops, but the book has to be selling in the first place.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Yes! If the book doesn't do something in the first month, it's toast. Very rarely does a book make a run up the charts from the underdog region. I've had a few bump up with price drops, but the book has to be selling in the first place.


I'm glad that this opinion is no longer mandatory.

Very rarely do books make a run up the charts (in the first month or otherwise). And yet I've seen many contrary examples. _Wool_ took a year to percolate. My own sales picked up at the ten week mark. Two competing books took an entire summer. Other titles have enjoyed revivals or benefited from cultural shifts. The key thing to remember here is that meaningful universal tactics are rarely uncovered via the dissection of outliers.

B.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Dalya said:


> Okay, I just found the book at the heart of this mystery.
> 
> My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.
> 
> I never oversimplify.


I would, but I have a brother named Jack. He would think I was writing about him. It's bad enough that one of my characters is called Jim (dad, a brother and a brother in law with that name), one is called Bill (brother and a brother in law with that name) and one is called Dan. (yep, another brother). I really need to start thinking of non-traditional names for my characters.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I don't think the month rule is really true, especially for an unknown. Later books can spark earlier ones, and someone might read a freebie months down the line and love it enough to start evangelizing it.


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## FictionalWriter (Aug 4, 2010)

I don't know about that. If you're writing a series, a new more popular book can give the older "haven't sold many copies book" a whole new life. Anyway, yhat's my experience. I don't think any book is ever truly down for the count unless the author stops writing.



Dalya said:


> Yes! If the book doesn't do something in the first month, it's toast. Very rarely does a book make a run up the charts from the underdog region. I've had a few bump up with price drops, but the book has to be selling in the first place.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Vaalingrade said:


> I don't think the month rule is really true, especially for an unknown. Later books can spark earlier ones, and someone might read a freebie months down the line and love it enough to start evangelizing it.


Yes, this can happen, and frogs can fall from the sky as rain, but I think those hit-from-140-days-old-lost-in-nowhere books are outliers. Yes, your backlist should sell more as your author profile rises. This is just math. But the new books need to increase your profile, not just match the sales of the previous release.

My advice is not to despair and abandon all hope for your books. Rather, it is to get your act together and do any marketing you have planned within the first 30 days when it'll give you the most bang for your buck.

Marketing:
Send out ebook review copies (12 at minimum, 100 is better) before the book is released.
Send out your new book newsletter and include some quotes from advance reviews.
Pre and post-launch, offer prizes through Rafflecopter, such as signed paperbacks.
Blog tour.
Promoted posts or paid ads on Facebook.

That's about all I do, and sometimes I don't even do all these things. Which is silly of me, but I'm coming around. Too many people spout off about "marketing" without giving concrete examples. So, when I say marketing, I mean the above.


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## Buttonman88 (Apr 11, 2013)

"Nobody knows anything." --- William Goldman


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

Quiss said:


> Almost all of the positive reviews I've had mention the characters and their adventures, not the science or the guns that go pew pew.


So that's yer problem right there, Mister Vader. Yer guns don't go pew pew! 'Fraid it's out of warranty, too. Parts'll take a week to get here. Would you like to rent a loaner gun in the meantime?


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## Buttonman88 (Apr 11, 2013)

Oh My God!

The blurb and the opening chapter of the book in question... it makes my eyes rain. 

I feel your pain, Breit. I really really do.

Mike


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Dalya said:


> Yes, this can happen, and frogs can fall from the sky as rain, but I think those hit-from-140-days-old-lost-in-nowhere books are outliers.


What is so magical about that month, honestly? If readers aren't aware of a book until further into the future, I don't see them checking the publish date and going, 'oh poo, this one's expired'.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

It's magical because Amazon has decided to make it magical.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Yes! If the book doesn't do something in the first month, it's toast. Very rarely does a book make a run up the charts from the underdog region. I've had a few bump up with price drops, but the book has to be selling in the first place.


Egads!!! This is traditional publisher thinking. Are we not as different as we thought?


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Dalya said:


> Yes! If the book doesn't do something in the first month, it's toast. Very rarely does a book make a run up the charts from the underdog region. I've had a few bump up with price drops, but the book has to be selling in the first place.


Sooo, are you saying that if the book doesn't hit the top of the charts in the first month it should be unpublished and trashed? 
Not sure what "toast" means. Selling 1 copy a day? 1 copy a month?


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## zzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2011)

Could be worse. Could hit all the marks. Good blurb. Great cover. Giveaways resulting in nothing but shouted praise and five star reviews. 2000 downloads of a predecessor freebie to drum up interest.

Then sell 3 copies your first week.

:/


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

DALYA HOW CAN YOU BE SUCH A PESSIMIST ON A WEDNESDAY!


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## MT Berlyn (Mar 27, 2012)

Quiss said:


> Sooo, are you saying that if the book doesn't hit the top of the charts in the first month it should be unpublished and trashed?
> Not sure what "toast" means. Selling 1 copy a day? 1 copy a month?


I don't think anyone is saying a book should be discarded if not showing some sales movement within the first month. The first 30 to 60 days are important, especially for readers who are not necessarily following book/reader sites, but _are_ looking at new releases listed on Amazon. Of course, it is not impossible for a book to languish a year and suddenly show some signs of success, but the first several weeks cannot be discounted as being fairly crucial.


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## legion (Mar 1, 2013)

Wait, but I have a character named Jack  . It's a kid though so I guess that's why the mojo didn't work.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Sooo, are you saying that if the book doesn't hit the top of the charts in the first month it should be unpublished and trashed?
> Not sure what "toast" means. Selling 1 copy a day? 1 copy a month?


By toast, I mean ... the book is in your rear view mirror. It is time to focus on the path ahead, the current WIP. What can you learn and use? Stop lying awake at night wondering how to promote your 8-months-old book that never caught on. I'm not saying take it out back and shoot it, good grief people, did I say that? Just ... move on. Put your attention to it on a diet. How much time can you throw at it? Maybe run a sale on it every 3 months or so. Have a strategy, but be realistic. It came out, and the magic didn't happen. Light a candle, I don't know, or don't light a candle. Feel free to argue with other authors that WOOL WOOLED ITSELF ALL OVER ITS WOOL PANTS! (For the record, Wool built on itself from books 1-6. It wasn't some old turdlet that got resuscitated by magic.) Learn to recognize outliers as outliers. Or, live in a perpetual state of oscillation between hope and disappointment, staring back at the past and everything that didn't happen.

I say this as someone with 7 toast books and 7 non-toast books.










And when I say focus on looking forward, I mean look forward. That means more than just keeping your head down like a little prawn. Learn the industry and be aware of the trends, and supply versus demand. Find the cross-section.

ETA: The above thoughts are basically what I say to myself. My philosophy is based on my own personal experience of publishing over the last 2 years. Now, I'm a prolific author and I'm flexible on genre. I have many passions. What works for me might not work for you. Yes, I get sad about books I love that get no love. I have a heart! But I must give tough love to some books when it comes to the big picture.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

It still sounds like a philosophy that works for movies with a definitive run in theaters rather than books.

All you're really missing out on from the first month is some free advertising. Everything else can be made up and the readers will never see the difference.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> Egads!!! This is traditional publisher thinking. Are we not as different as we thought?


It's _publisher_ thinking. We are both author and publisher.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Vaalingrade said:


> It still sounds like a philosophy that works for movies with a definitive run in theaters rather than books.
> 
> All you're really missing out on from the first month is some free advertising. Everything else can be made up and the readers will never see the difference.


This is a good point, but I think Dalya is really on to something. It's not just a matter of Amazon's promotional algorithms being much mightier for new releases. It's the fact that, if you put a book in front of people, and they respond with what boils down to a "Meh," it's probably best to let it go and hope your next book has more appeal. Because that book is a big ol' boulder. It's going to take a lot of energy to push it up the hill. That energy is probably better spent writing and promoting books that are easier to push up the top of the mountain.


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## mjstorm (Feb 23, 2013)

Dalya said:


> My conclusion is we should all name our main characters Jack, for it is a very good name.


I'll do better than that. I'm going to name ALL of the characters in my next book Jack.

I'm going to be SO RICH. 

- M.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

While I definitely don't think if a book doesn't do well the first month, that it is dead, I do think Dayla makes some great points. Does the first thirty day help? Heck yes. But it's not doomsday if it doesn't "take off" Holly (H.M. Ward) on this board had a book out for a year that wasn't performing. She changed the cover and re-branded it. It made it in the top ten in Amazon shortly after that. Jana DeLeon had a book she wrote in 2007 make the USA Today chart this year for the first time. Old books aren't dead.

But if you continue to put your books in front of readers in ways of advertising and they continue to reject it, for prawns sake, move on. Write something else. Shift your focus. Let it go. 

For consistent performers, plan some marketing every few months to get it visibility. But keep working on new work. Have NEW work to promote. New work always helps old work.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2013)

I also disagree that a book that doesn't sell spectacularly well in its first 30/60/90 days is "toast." Some books just take time to find their natural audiences.  And really, how important is this rumored hot new release list anyway?  If it's like any of the other lists, it's got a limited number of spots on it.  With all the dozens of new books being published on Amazon every single hour, there's no way that all of them can get the kind of traction that comes from being high up on that list.

It seems to me that the lists are only important if your goals revolve around fame more than they do with the practicalities of making a living.  A thousand true fans might not catapult you to the top of the bestseller list in your genre, but if you can release new books on a consistent basis, then they can earn you enough to pay the bills.  In that sense, even though we are still "publishers," we're worlds apart from the guys in the corporate office towers in NYC.

I do agree with Dalya about one thing, though: focus on the next book.  Trust your books to grow into their audiences naturally and organically.  Marketing is important, sure, but so is building a strong backlist.  Because when someone becomes a fan, they're going to want to look up everything else you've ever done.  Give them what they want--more of your books.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

I tried naming characters in my books Jack, but the readers got confused between the names and the verbs.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

mjstorm said:


> I'll do better than that. I'm going to name ALL of the characters in my next book Jack.
> 
> I'm going to be SO RICH.


It should be like Being John Malkovich and all the characters can BE Jack.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> But it's not doomsday if it doesn't "take off" Holly (H.M. Ward) on this board had a book out for a year that wasn't performing. She changed the cover and re-branded it. It made it in the top ten in Amazon shortly after that. Jana DeLeon had a book she wrote in 2007 make the USA Today chart this year for the first time. Old books aren't dead.


True. Sometimes a tweak of the cover or blurb is in order. That has a different sort of magic to it. I find if you already have products that are selling well and one title ends up being a dud, this should be something you look at.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Dalya said:


> It's _publisher_ thinking. We are both author and publisher.


Correction. It is _one_ publisher's thinking. And, thankfully, I do not have to subscribe to it.

B.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Particularly thought-provoking posts from B., Dalya, Ed, and Joe in this thread, but who could beat this?



swolf said:


> I tried naming characters in my books Jack, but the readers got confused between the names and the verbs.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

B. Justin Shier said:


> Correction. It is _one_ publisher's thinking. And, thankfully, I do not have to subscribe to it.
> 
> B.


And frankly, the thinking of the kind of publisher some of us went self-pub to escape.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

B. Justin Shier said:


> Correction. It is _one_ publisher's thinking. And, thankfully, I do not have to subscribe to it.
> 
> B.


Awww, come on. Put your old ebooks in the toaster and put jam on them.

I'm just saying that there's no crying in baseball.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2013)

Dalya said:


> I'm just saying that there's no crying in baseball.


Who's crying?


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Awww, come on. Put your old ebooks in the toaster and put jam on them.


Have you pulled the seven "toast" books you noted from the marketplace?



Dalya said:


> I'm just saying that there's no crying in baseball.


I'm not crying. I'm profiting by counterexample, and I'm disagreeing.

Too often on these boards, we have people telling us how things "are." Yet we are all operating in a rapidly changing international marketplace that remains subject to the public's capricious whims, measures success by what skyrockets, and explains away anything that does not conform to whatever dogma is en vogue. A smart business person would observe all the glaring holes in these oracles' prognostications and grant them the credence that they deserve.

But there _are_ folks with real quality data. They've been granted access to Amazon's treasure trove. They're called _47North_ in my genre, and _Montlake_ in some of yours. Do they abandon their titles after one month, or do they slip them into KDDs six and twelve months later?

B.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

I think it's fair to say a book's best shot at catching the algo-coaster is in the first 30 days.  Declaring those that dont "toast" is a bit excessive.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Dudes, I didn't say anyone was crying. I was quoting _League of Their Own_.










Sorry if it came across that I said anyone was actually literally crying.

The movie quote was just a quick reference for the concept that there is a time and place for sentimentality. 

Please enjoy the photo of Tom Hanks looking adorable.



Adam Pepper said:


> I think it's fair to say a book's best shot at catching the algo-coaster is in the first 30 days. Declaring those that dont "toast" is a bit excessive.


In hindsight, calling them "toast" is vague to the point of being unhelpful, really. Did I mean burned-toast? Because toast is yummy, and better than bread.

ETA: I was speaking of my own feelings for my own books. I was not putting myself in the other KBoard members' shoes, where sometimes a member says something about their philosophy and it seems they are talking about someone else's books specifically. I did not mean to say that other members' books are toast, for that would be cruel.

I see the error of my ways now.

Please read as: "I consider MY OWN BOOKS that never went anywhere to be experience points and backlist, not something I should be worrying about pushing every single day."


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "Too often on these boards, we have people telling us how things "are."


I prefer acknowledging my own vast ignorance, while avoiding tripping over everyone else's. Markets are far too complex for me to know what is sufficient for success. All I can do its try to go with that market.


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I see the error of my ways now.


Tom Hanks? I think the Sgt. from Full Metal Jacket is more apropos.

"What's your malfunction, Private Dalya?! Drop and give me 20!"


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Adam Pepper said:


> Tom Hanks? I think the Sgt. from Full Metal Jacket is more apropos.
> 
> "What's your malfunction, Private Dalya?! Drop and give me 20!"


Oh, Tom Hanks. 

I could do maybe 4.5 pushups, but I'm saving my strength for yoga class later.

The Amazon algorithms do seem to favor new releases, though.

The indie publishing career is tough. I definitely recommend having your first title be a smash hit. I think that would make everything better. I was advising a friend yesterday, and the best way to describe my own experience is as steps.










Step 1: Put out your first book. Learn about covers, file formatting, etc. Maybe get a few fans on your mailing list. (Optional: get a smash hit with this book.)
Step 2: Put out second book. When you contact reviewers, they'll see you have another book under your belt, and they can check those reviews to see what kind of writer you are.
Step 3: Quit publishing.
Step 4: Start back up again, repeat as necessary. Every new book has the platform of the previous books before it, and should, in theory, do better for it.

My own personal experience was that my book #2 did very well, because of timing in the new Select program. Books 3-7 did progressively worse with each release. I was doing a lot of things wrong, plus the rules of the game kept changing with all the Select changes. That was really hard for me, personally, and some of you saw my sad posts on the boards during that time.

Starting a new name and jumping into a different genre was not a calculated move, but more of a lark. I had basically given up on making a living from my books and was just writing for fun. With the new name, though, the books were more closely related within a containing genre, and a hot genre, and I think that helped a lot.


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## mjstorm (Feb 23, 2013)

tensen said:


> It should be like Being John Malkovich and all the characters can BE Jack.


Or write it in the second person, and now the reader is Jack, too! Yes!

- M.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Don't you people follow trends? We should all be writing hot spicy NA contemporaries with very damaged characters in first person present. Slap a hot guy on the cover and you're gold.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> Don't you people follow trends? We should all be writing hot spicy NA contemporaries with very damaged characters in first person present. Slap a hot guy on the cover and you're gold.


There, an answer to the OP's question. The dark ritual is outlined above! It doesn't explain the spaceship book, of course.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Dudes, I didn't say anyone was crying. I was quoting _League of Their Own_.


A trigger warning would have been nice.



Dalya said:


> ETA: I was speaking of my own feelings for my own books. I was not putting myself in the other KBoard members' shoes, where sometimes a member says something about their philosophy and it seems they are talking about someone else's books specifically. I did not mean to say that other members' books are toast, for that would be cruel.
> 
> I see the error of my ways now.
> 
> Please read as: "I consider MY OWN BOOKS that never went anywhere to be experience points and backlist, not something I should be worrying about pushing every single day."


NOW YOU TELL ME! I already unpublished all of my books that are over thirty days old BECAUSE YOU SAID TO.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

I don't think Dalya's saying that the only rational response to a poor first month is to throw the book into the book-dungeon, where it shall never be heard from again.

But some books are just way harder to sell than others. Early last year, I had three novels out. Unrelated, not part of the same series. I've tried a bunch of junk with each of them. One book responds very well (by my standards) every time it's put in front of people. One book responds okay. And one just never shows any signs of life no matter how many times I put the paddles to it. It's a consistent, obvious pattern.

I've mostly tried giveaways and ads, but one of the best tests of a book's appeal is how it does in those first 30 days, when Amazon's actively promoting it for you, too. This is only relevant if you've got a way to make it visible initially--the equation is totally different if you're still working up a fanbase and your book never got a real shot as a new release. But if you did get it in front of people, and they gave a collective shrug, that is, at the very least, a sign that you may have a tough time ever getting that book to move.

I think you should continue to try, to experiment with getting it exposure and maybe to mix up cover, price, blurb, blah blah, and see if its poor first month was just a fluke. If you _do_ get results from promoting a book that initially failed as a new release, then obviously you discard that initial performance, because you've proven it can sell after all.

But if the results never get any better.. I mean, there's just a point at which it doesn't make sense to continue trying to push that boulder up the hill.

I think that's the main idea Dalya's getting at. If she's quick to move on, it's probably because she's quicker to write new books than most, so she can.

As for looking to Amazon for hints on all this--I don't see a lot of flops getting KDDs. ;P


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> I don't think Dalya's saying that the only rational response to a poor first month is to throw the book into the book-dungeon, where it shall never be heard from again.
> 
> But some books are just way harder to sell than others. Early last year, I had three novels out. Unrelated, not part of the same series. I've tried a bunch of junk with each of them. One book responds very well (by my standards) every time it's put in front of people. One book responds okay. And one just never shows any signs of life no matter how many times I put the paddles to it. It's a consistent, obvious pattern.
> 
> ...


Perfectly said and what I was getting at upthread before my flippant New Adult book post. I think the biggest test of a book is what does it do when it has eyes on it? Does it sell? If yes, it has legs and keep finding ways to put it in front of readers. If not, try to determine the reason. Is it the cover? The blurb? Or the story? If it's 1 or 2, change it. If it's 3, then move on.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Ive helped a few friends publish now and they are u sually disappointed.  I am trying to get away from being a mentor as I lack sentimentality and thus can be a little harsh. The truth is it is hard and there are no guarantees. A positive frame might be to consider the career as a whole and each book has its part. I had no idea toast was inflammatory language. I have said much worse of my own work. 

Eta: I am running a bookbub ad next month for an older book. My older titles are not dead to me, nor should they be. But I have those books in a different place in my mind. Not at the front. That is all.

Nathan,  you may republish now.


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## BBGriffith (Mar 13, 2012)

My books have always responded well when they get put in front of people, but it took me a a year of promotion to get to the point where I was selling one copy a day, and three years to the point of me selling 5 or so copies a day. I think I fall way outside of that first 30 days. I didn't have a pot to piss in for almost a year.


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## AuthorSAHunt (Apr 7, 2013)

SPBreit said:


> Well, apparently, you can not only get away with both, but also make a good buck doing so. I'm not going to name the book and author (I've got my petty moments, but I_ try_ to not be a complete douche).
> 
> There's NO professional editing.
> There's NO cover worth the name.
> ...


He's probably buying fucking reviews. Welcome to the world of self-publishing, where the more money you have to throw at your book, the more successful it will be.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

AuthorSAHunt said:


> He's probably buying [expletive] reviews. Welcome to the world of self-publishing, where the more money you have to throw at your book, the more successful it will be.


The book in question has bad reviews. It truly is perplexing!


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

AuthorSAHunt said:


> He's probably buying [expletive] reviews. Welcome to the world of self-publishing, where the more money you have to throw at your book, the more successful it will be.


Hey, S.A. You might want to edit that bad word out of your post before Betsy gets out the cattle prod.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Oh, geez, I totally forgot to answer the OP's question.










B.


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## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

So, what's the author of this book going to think when he lurks here, and sees this thread? 

I'm trying to imagine how bad it'd feel to be singled out for sneers and insinuations because... why? Because I was having an extremely modest success while someone else was not doing as well?

I mean, Dan Brown and E.L. James and James Patterson have their millions to sustain them. This person? Somehow, I don't think that the memory of briefly hitting the 61-80 page in the Science Fiction list would be quite as sustaining.

And yes, the book is readily identifiable.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

tensen said:


> It should be like Being John Malkovich and all the characters can BE Jack.


Being *Jack* Malkovich!


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2013)

B. Justin Shier said:


> Oh, geez, I totally forgot to answer the OP's question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*OMG THAT'S THE ANSWER!!!1!*


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

B. Justin Shier said:


> Oh, geez, I totally forgot to answer the OP's question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now I'm left wondering how many people in this thread got this.  Because this is the answer. lol


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## AuthorSAHunt (Apr 7, 2013)

Note that I said "probably". That is not a definitive word.

I don't really care what the author thinks, I don't care if the author does or doesn't buy reviews, all I know is that it's a bad enough aspect of the self-publishing world to warrant veering into that train of thought and I'm extremely angry about it lately. If he wants to come here and prove that he _didn't_ buy his reviews then I'm more than willing to sit here and tell you I was wrong and apologize profusely for even conflating the author with the act, but in the mean time I'm going to be angry about the unscrupulous authors that _are_ doing this, along with the bestseller authors that pay ghostwriters to inflate their repertoire by writing 15 books a year.

It's the part where the OP claimed that the work/blurb is crap (and I have no idea if it is or isn't, I haven't went to search for it and I'm too busy to look) that made me jump to that conclusion, honestly. If the work/blurb was actually good enough to stand on its own, then I might be tempted to go with the flow and agree that it might be due to the author's hard work. It takes tricks to sell crap.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2013)

ElisaBlaisdell said:


> So, what's the author of this book going to think when he lurks here, and sees this thread?


If he had lurked here, chances are the quality issues that resulted in this thread being posted _would not have existed in the first place_ and people would simply be praising him for an all around great novel, since most reviewers seemed to actually like the story.^^


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

LOLing at the Artisan Bread! Just to derail for a minute, is there anyone who isn't publishing on KDP who gets targetted by them?  None of my non-writing friends have any idea what I'm talking about when I mention *the evil bread book*.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't get artisan-bread-mail. Maybe because I'm in Canada? We have a wall of maple syrup around our email accounts here.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I don't get artisan-bread-mail. Maybe because I'm in Canada? We have a wall of maple syrup around our email accounts here.


I've got a whole ocean between me and the US and I still get the artisan bread mail.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm eagerly awaiting the sequel: Artisian Bagels.


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

AuthorSAHunt said:


> ... but in the mean time I'm going to be angry about the unscrupulous authors that _are_ doing this, along with the bestseller authors that pay ghostwriters to inflate their repertoire by writing 15 books a year.


I don't understand how paying a ghostwriter is in the same category of offense as buying reviews.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Shayne said:


> I don't understand how paying a ghostwriter is in the same category of offense as buying reviews.


They are both done by people with money, I think is the connection he is making. I don't agree, but I see how he could make that connection.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

AuthorSAHunt said:


> I don't really care what the author thinks, I don't care if the author does or doesn't buy reviews, all I know is that it's a bad enough aspect of the self-publishing world to warrant veering into that train of thought and I'm extremely angry about it lately.


Spending time being extremely angry or tilting at windmills that we cannot influence at all feels like a waste of energy to me. My preference is to focus on things I can control: writing my next book, marketing my previous book, learning how to be a better writer. Other people gaming the system, buying reviews, leaving sock-puppet reviews is either going to happen or not, no matter what I do.


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## AuthorSAHunt (Apr 7, 2013)

Because they're both underhanded bullshit tricks used to inflate yourself and your accomplishments. People that pay for reviews and people that pay ghostwriters to inflate their book sales don't have the heart for the art anymore. I write all my own books and draw all my reviews honestly. I don't use money to get ahead of the pack.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting the sequel: Artisian Bagels.


I hear they got the green light to offer pre-orders on that title.

B.


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

AuthorSAHunt said:


> Because they're both underhanded [bullcrap] tricks used to inflate yourself and your accomplishments. People that pay for reviews and people that pay ghostwriters to inflate their book sales don't have the heart for the art anymore. I write all my own books and draw all my reviews honestly. I don't use money to get ahead of the pack.


The Hardy Boys books were written by ghostwriters, but that didn't take away my enjoyment of the books in any way. I'm guessing, since people are still buying that big name author's books, his fans are still getting enjoyment out of his work, too. So if the author is more about the business than the art, but his customers are satisfied, is that really so wrong?


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## AuthorSAHunt (Apr 7, 2013)

There's a difference, though. Franklin W. Dixon, the collective pseudonym of _Hardy Boys_ fame, doesn't exist, so there's no one to take credit for the efforts of the ghostwriters. James Patterson _does_ exist. His real name is on the book and _he did not write it._


----------



## FranceBarnaby (Feb 10, 2013)

swolf said:


> I tried naming characters in my books Jack, but the readers got confused between the names and the verbs.


Thanks for the laugh.


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

AuthorSAHunt said:


> There's a difference, though. Franklin W. Dixon, the collective pseudonym of _Hardy Boys_ fame, doesn't exist, so there's no one to take credit for the efforts of the ghostwriters. James Patterson _does_ exist. His real name is on the book and _he did not write it._


But he gives his co-writers credit -- their names are on the covers as well


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

I don't see anything wrong with big name authors co-authoring as long as the co-authors get credit. What's the big deal? Those co-authors are getting paid and help with name recognition.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with a co-author making whatever deal he wants. Credit? No credit? Whatever. It's his business.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> There is nothing wrong with a co-author making whatever deal he wants. Credit? No credit? Whatever. It's his business.


I don't disagree, but as a reader when I find out someone else is helping write a book I thought was by person A, but is mostly by person B, then I get a little irritated. It _feels_ wrong. Not saying it is, it just feels that way.


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## AuthorSAHunt (Apr 7, 2013)

So is he crediting his ghosts now? Good. It's one thing to run a property franchise like the _Hardy Boys_, but another to make millions of dollars a year putting your name on someone else's work. It's a slim distinction, but it's a distinction to me.



Deanna Chase said:


> I don't disagree, but as a reader when I find out someone else is helping write a book I thought was by person A, but is mostly by person B, then I get a little irritated. It _feels_ wrong. Not saying it is, it just feels that way.


^ This.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Personally, I write all my books myself, but I do employ a team of monkeys who stand on each other's shoulders inside a trenchcoat and post on Kboards for me.


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

AuthorSAHunt said:



> So is he crediting his ghosts now? Good. It's one thing to run a property franchise like the _Hardy Boys_, but another to make millions of dollars a year putting your name on someone else's work. It's a slim distinction, but it's a distinction to me.
> 
> ^ This.


It's a distinction to me, too. I just don't feel it's even close to being in the same category as buying reviews.


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## kristinrix (Mar 24, 2013)

Sometimes I wonder if there aren't people who seek out books that have editing and cover problems, because they are obviously produced by an amateur. Hunting for the diamond in the rough, so to speak. Every time I talk about the importance of cover design and editing, a little tiny voice in the back of my brain pipes up about cases where bad covers and horrible editing sell well enough for their authors to live off of, and this is pretty much the only answer I have for it. Then I kick the voice and get back to work.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

kristinrix said:


> Sometimes I wonder if there aren't people who seek out books that have editing and cover problems, because they are obviously produced by an amateur. Hunting for the diamond in the rough, so to speak. Every time I talk about the importance of cover design and editing, a little tiny voice in the back of my brain pipes up about cases where bad covers and horrible editing sell well enough for their authors to live off of, and this is pretty much the only answer I have for it. Then I kick the voice and get back to work.


Another answer is consumers like the book. It's reasonable to consider the possibility a substantial subset of consumers don't care about the cover design and editing.

There was a thread here last week about advance review copies with editing errors and no covers. Many contend the reviewers can indeed enjoy these books. Perhaps consumers can do the same.

This would fit with the notion that word of mouth is a powerful force behind sales. Would a word of mouth recommendation be vetoed by a cover design?


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

We seem to spend a lot of time evaluating books from the point of view of craftspeople, and trying to evaluate them from the point of view of publishers (which are essentially eldritch abominations because that's the side effect of having a marketing department), but not a lot as _readers_.

I mean normal readers. Not readers who are in the biz and know what the blue blazes limited infinitive monkey voice is, but meat-based human beings that like to read and neither know nor care how the sausage is made.

The cover isn't attractive by 'must grab eyes because internet' standards, but I have a ton of books on my shelf that look just like it, and if you don't care about the typos (like a lot of folks don't), I can see how the book looks interesting enough to check out.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Dalya said:


> Personally, I write all my books myself, but I do employ a team of monkeys who stand on each other's shoulders inside a trenchcoat and post on Kboards for me.


In another four years, someone will put all your posts together in one massive file and end up with _Hamlet_.


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## wilsonharp (Jun 5, 2012)

I honestly think the cover is great. It's memorable and a clean design. The quality of the writing... yeah, I couldn't read it. But I think you are right, Vaalingrade, often we are too busy trying to impress ourselves and our peers (other writers) rather than just writing for people who want to enjoy a good story.


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

wilsonharp said:


> I honestly think the cover is great. It's memorable and a clean design. The quality of the writing... yeah, I couldn't read it. But I think you are right, Vaalingrade, often we are too busy trying to impress ourselves and our peers (other writers) rather than just writing for people who want to enjoy a good story.


Would someone just post the link/title already? Everyone seems to be able to find it anyway, but I don't have the time or Amazon searching skills and the curiosity is killing me!


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Dalya said:


> Personally, I write all my books myself, but I do employ a team of monkeys who stand on each other's shoulders inside a trenchcoat and post on Kboards for me.


The one on the top is cute.


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## wilsonharp (Jun 5, 2012)

Selina Fenech said:


> Would someone just post the link/title already? Everyone seems to be able to find it anyway, but I don't have the time or Amazon searching skills and the curiosity is killing me!


Sent you a PM with the link.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Selina Fenech said:


> Would someone just post the link/title already? Everyone seems to be able to find it anyway, but I don't have the time or Amazon searching skills and the curiosity is killing me!


Sent you the link in a PM.

ETA

Oh, well&#8230;


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Andrew Ashling said:


> Sent you the link in a PM.
> 
> ETA
> 
> Oh, well&#8230;


Well, you can send it to me, because I'm brain-fried and can't find it, either...


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## wilsonharp (Jun 5, 2012)

ChristinePope said:


> Well, you can send it to me, because I'm brain-fried and can't find it, either...


Sent to you via PM.


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## Lefty (Apr 7, 2011)

wilsonharp said:


> Sent to you via PM.


What am I looking for?


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## Mr. RAD (Jan 4, 2011)

* peeks head from behind the curtain of lurkdom *

I just had to have a look at the book in question. Although it says the blurb was edited a few days ago, I can still detect typos.

Readers say it's a good story but admit spelling and grammatical exist. Even so, their comments say EVERYTHING in my opinion. _*Story is what matters to readers,*_ not gorgeous book covers, eloquent writing and all the other things writers pay attention to and deem necessary to succeed. *It's all about a good story.*

I think the WOOLmeister said it best (I think in response to a 50 Shades of Gray article) when he said "Plot is king and prose is pawn." (I think that's how he phrased it.) It's all about a good story. Give readers an interesting tale and they'll forgive its hideous cover, lame blurb, spelling and grammatical errors, and so forth. They'll even ignore its price.

Then again, I could be wrong. Just my opinion.

Blessings

* ducks head back behind the curtain of lurkdom *


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

> Story is what matters to readers, not gorgeous book covers, eloquent writing and all the other things writers pay attention to and deem necessary to succeed. It's all about a good story.


I think question is more how do readers find a great story without the gorgeous cover, a great blurb and a lot of promo. For word of mouth, you still need to get readers to buy initially to get them hooked.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Which of these (hypothetical) one line reviews do you think would garner more sales. Also, which reviewer do you think would be more likely to tell their friends about the book: 


Review A) "A perfectly edited book with an amazing cover but the story sucked."

Review B) "AMAZING STORY!!! But, there's typos and grammar errors throughout and a terrible cover."


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

kathrynoh said:


> I think question is more how do readers find a great story without the gorgeous cover, a great blurb and a lot of promo. For word of mouth, you still need to get readers to buy initially to get them hooked.


Amazon's New Release list.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Mr. RAD said:


> * peeks head from behind the curtain of lurkdom *
> 
> I just had to have a look at the book in question. Although it says the blurb was edited a few days ago, I can still detect typos.
> 
> ...


That is how he phrased it.  (Can I borrow your memory cells, mine are a little low  )

http://kseniaanske.squarespace.com/blog/2012/9/10/hugh-howey-on-storytelling.html


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

kathrynoh said:


> I think question is more how do readers find a great story without the gorgeous cover, a great blurb and a lot of promo. For word of mouth, you still need to get readers to buy initially to get them hooked.


This.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

I posted something about this a few days ago...

A week ago I got to attend a book club that spent 90 minutes discussing my book. I came away from that discussion with a completely different perspective on my writing.  They cared about the story, and the happy ending and the fact that they liked the "characters" (which is nice, since it's non-fiction and I am one of those characters) but they seemed to care very little about what I would think of as "the craftsmanship of writing." The story was the thing. What was important to them was that the story moved them. Nice phrasing and a well-written passage honestly seemed secondary to them.

I still want to get better as a writer, of course. But, I am going to spend a lot more time considering the story itself and the characters I put in that story and spend less time worrying about my writing.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "I think question is more how do readers find a great story without the gorgeous cover, a great blurb and a lot of promo. For word of mouth, you still need to get readers to buy initially to get them hooked."


Perhaps we don't know. When nobody knows, it doesn't matter if everyone agrees.


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## AuthorSAHunt (Apr 7, 2013)

I liked your blurb, but at $4.99 for 190 pages you are overcharging by half.


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

Shawn Inmon said:


> they seemed to care very little about what I would think of as "the craftsmanship of writing." The story was the thing. What was important to them was that the story moved them. Nice phrasing and a well-written passage honestly seemed secondary to them.


At the risk of being excessively insentive...

DUH!

How could this possibly be a surprise?


----------



## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

Mcoorlim said:


> Galvanic Century is set in an alternate steampunk world where the reign of Queen Victoria has extended well into the early 20th century.


It's a matter of personal choice, so don't take this personal, but I'm always turned off by blurbs that feel the need to overexplain the "What". You should work the relevant bits into the blurb itself rather than start with an explanatory sentence. I don't think you have to change all that much, but I'd switch around some of the parts. Again, personal preference here. Here's my take:


> It's been a rough year for gentlewoman [ *Lady?* ] Aldora Fiske - airship battles above *Queen Victoria's* London, doomed expeditions in the jungles of Mexico, and even a kidnapping in Istanbul - and now her bridegroom Alton Bartleby has shown up drunk to their wedding. Yes, it's a marriage of convenience and not one of love, and everyone knows it, but when an old foe decides to strike, things go from bad to worse*, and suddenly a lot more is at stake*.
> 
> As *tensions rise and* the world edges inexorably towards a World War that few can even begin to anticipate, brave men and women must contend with enemies ranging from airship pirates, clockwork assassins, galvanic monsters, all the way to anarchist madmen.





> Cover's good, book's good, people like it, I'm getting pageviews... but no bites.


At 190 pages/300+ something kilobytes it's priced too high, in my opinion. Try selling it at $2.99 for a few weeks and see if that helps.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

kathrynoh said:


> I think question is more how do readers find a great story without the gorgeous cover, a great blurb and a lot of promo. For word of mouth, you still need to get readers to buy initially to get them hooked.


You know, people are cracking on the cover and the blurb... but it's a pretty good blurb if you're going there looking for that kind of book.

It tells you very clearly what kind of book you're looking at and gives you a sense of the writing style. If you're a reader and you like this kind of book, the blurb tells you that you'll probably enjoy the story therein.

The thing is the family station wagon: not flashy, not fast, but it Gets the Job Done. And if I was into sci-fi military espionage, I would be considering buying it.

Edit: the reviews help. Even with technical problems, most people can't honestly bring themselves to rate it below three. Even the jerkhole 'I haven't read the book, but I have words to say' ones can't manage to score it lower.


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## Blackhole (Apr 15, 2013)

Hi,

Recently I was about to buy your book because I loved the blurb and the cover and, though I've never read much steampunk, it sounded like something I might be interested in. But then I saw it was Volume 8 in the series - yet none of your other books say what volume they are! I couldn't be bothered to click on each one to see which was the first in the series so I just gave up.


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

SPBreit said:


> It's a matter of personal choice, so don't take this personal, but I'm always turned off by blurbs that feel the need to overexplain the "What". You should work the relevant bits into the blurb itself rather than start with an explanatory sentence. I don't think you have to change all that much, but I'd switch around some of the parts. Again, personal preference here. Here's my take:At 190 pages/300+ something kilobytes it's priced too high, in my opinion. Try selling it at $2.99 for a few weeks and see if that helps.


Exactly my thoughts as well. For the word count they are priced too high. If they were 50k words then that would be different. I'm sure DWS has no problem with the price, but then he doesn't have to worry since he has the backlist and brand name recognition to price whatever he wants. the rest of us don't (though I'd love to be able to price all my erotica novellas at 6.99 and not see sales tank--ain't happenin' though).

His covers blow me away. I'm curious how good his plots are. Characters come and go but a great plot keeps me flippin pages.


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## zzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2011)

As per the advice in this thread I'm dropping the 10-16k novelettes to $.99, the shorter collections to $2.99, the omnibus to $4.99, and the short novel to $3.99 for a month. We'll see how they sell.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Has anyone actually *read* the book.
If so, I'd like to hear from them so we can get this thread out of the realm of speculation.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2013)

Andrew Ashling said:


> Has anyone actually *read* the book.
> If so, I'd like to hear from them so we can get this thread out of the realm of speculation.


The reviews seem to agree that it is a good story. Anyway, the quality of the story never was questioned in this thread to begin with and has nothing to do with the OP. *shrugs*


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

SPBreit said:


> The reviews seem to agree that it is a good story. Anyway, *the quality of the story never was questioned in this thread to begin with and has nothing to do with the OP. **shrugs*


That might be your mistake right there.
*shrugs*

The dark ritual you might have to partake in is writing a book so fantastic that it not only appeals to many people but that it makes them promote your book for you.


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## Blackhole (Apr 15, 2013)

Mcoorlim said:


> Hm. How odd. I'll have to fix that.
> 
> The Bartleby and James Mysteries (And they Called Her Spider, Maiden Voyage of the Rio Grande, On the Trail of the Scissorman, and A Matter of Spirit) come first. Then the Chronicles of a Gentlewoman (Sky Pirates Over London, The Tower of Babbage, Fine Young Turks). It's easier and cheaper just to buy the Steampunk Omnibus, though.
> 
> March of the Cogsmen is the first novel. It comes last. It's technically the 8th book but isn't really part of either series.


I see. Actually, it wasn't so hard to see the order of the books after all - maybe I was just being lazy. But I would guess that I wasn't the only person put off buying the novel due to being unsure about the sequence.


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## zzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2011)

Blackhole said:


> I see. Actually, it wasn't so hard to see the order of the books after all - maybe I was just being lazy. But I would guess that I wasn't the only person put off buying the novel due to being unsure about the sequence.


Now you've got me worrying about that.


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## Bree Roberts (Dec 1, 2012)

Okay, the thing with the rocket ship cover and that book's success - no, there's not a ripped ab male chest on there, but THE ROCKET SHIP IS PHALLIC.

So there ya go.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

Michael Kingswood said:


> At the risk of being excessively insentive...
> 
> DUH!
> 
> How could this possibly be a surprise?


I guess it could be something of a surprise to me because I am a new writer with one book out who is still feeling his way through the process of trying to build a writing career. Thanks for your kindness though.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it's time to take this thread to a whole 'nother level.

Adverbs:

Are adverbs okay? How many adverbs should I put in my book if I want it to be a mega-hit?

Traditional publishers:

Are they the gods of culture, or jerks? I can't decide for myself!

Paid editing:

I don't need to pay an editor, do I? Seems like a lot of money. I only want to publish things that are guaranteed moneymakers, so could you guys just tell me what those things are?

Thank you.

(Please do not answer any of these questions. This post is for entertainment purposes only.)


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Reading a book with poor spelling, punctuation and grammar, as well as typos, is usually a turn-off for me. HOWEVER, considering the quality of proper English taught in high schools in recent years, I suspect many readers not only don't notice, but don't even know the difference. (I will continue to make an effort at proper proof-readng for my own work though.)


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## Satchya (Sep 5, 2012)

Sapphire said:


> Reading a book with poor spelling, punctuation and grammar, as well as typos, is usually a turn-off for me. HOWEVER, considering the quality of proper English taught in high schools in recent years, I suspect many readers not only don't notice, but don't even know the difference. (I will continue to make an effort at proper proof-readng for my own work though.)


Every week, my son's fifth-grade teacher sends a newsletter home for the parents to read. It contains updates on what they are learning in class, spelling words for the week, advice, etc. It is less than a page long, yet never contains fewer than three obvious spelling or punctuation errors. One grammatical error shows up week after week, and irritates me like nails on a chalkboard (i.e., ask your student haven't they forgotten anything important that they need to turn in?). Last week my son brought home a spelling test marked 100%--unfortunately, he had clearly spelled the word committee as "commiittee."

This same teacher grades their reading comprehension homework on a scale of "done" to "not done." If you forget to write your name on it, you don't get credit. If you type it in the wrong font, or forget to staple your sheets of paper together, you don't get credit. She never actually reads their essay answers and grades them for content. No feedback of any kind is provided. Unfortunately, that is common even in the Honor's English classes my daughter is taking in High School. (Don't even get me started on the error-riddled e-mails her Honor's-level teacher sends home.)

The problem has spread far beyond students who are not being taught these things. New, young, inexperienced teachers are entering the system, and they "don't know what they don't know." There is no accountability within the classroom for the students to improve, because no one is checking anyway.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> " I suspect many readers not only don't notice, but don't even know the difference."


Agree. Consumers base purchases on their own standards, not other authors' standards.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

Satchya said:


> Every week, my son's fifth-grade teacher sends a newsletter home for the parents to read. It contains updates on what they are learning in class, spelling words for the week, advice, etc. It is less than a page long, yet never contains fewer than three obvious spelling or punctuation errors. One grammatical error shows up week after week, and irritates me like nails on a chalkboard (i.e., ask your student haven't they forgotten anything important that they need to turn in?). Last week my son brought home a spelling test marked 100%--unfortunately, he had clearly spelled the word committee as "commiittee."
> 
> This same teacher grades their reading comprehension homework on a scale of "done" to "not done." If you forget to write your name on it, you don't get credit. If you type it in the wrong font, or forget to staple your sheets of paper together, you don't get credit. She never actually reads their essay answers and grades them for content. No feedback of any kind is provided. Unfortunately, that is common even in the Honor's English classes my daughter is taking in High School. (Don't even get me started on the error-riddled e-mails her Honor's-level teacher sends home.)
> 
> The problem has spread far beyond students who are not being taught these things. New, young, inexperienced teachers are entering the system, and they "don't know what they don't know." There is no accountability within the classroom for the students to improve, because no one is checking anyway.


This just mad me feel sad. So very sad.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Quiss said:


> I _really l_ike this, and I agree totally.
> I write sci-fi space opera. Not a lot of real techie stuff, and I don't spend pages and pages describing other worlds.
> Almost all of the positive reviews I've had mention the characters and their adventures, not the science or the guns that go pew pew.


I'm in the same boat. I believe that characters are what people are looking for. I'm getting ready to release my first book. It's a sci-fi book as well, but there are no aliens or laser guns. (Not that there's anything wrong with aliens and laser guns. I LOVE aliens and laser guns. If someone asked me, right now, to name two things I love, there's a solid chance I would say aliens and laser guns.  ) I'm just really glad to hear people say that they think people want strong interesting characters. That's what I've tried to focus on in my book.

I'm sure I'll have some of the same frustrations as the original poster has. But, like him, I'll have to just move on to doing something more constructive. Like writing another book or working on my laser guns.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

If you look at the three books below that I've published as myself only one of them was trad published - the non-fiction one. The publisher did such an awful job on the hardback copyedit that I've had editors write to me and say how did I not go ape on them? I did go ape, but it's still been my best-seller to date both in trad circles and as a self-pubbed ebook in the states (I've obviously re-edited the ebook and the subsequent paperback). So it's probably the angle (or hook) and the content that sells that one and it's only editors that notice the typos.

As for the _can books come out of the wilderness question_ - yes, definitely. That same book was selling a few copies a month early last year as an ebook despite my best marketing abilities then a story about a tank being nicked in the Middle East got picked up by The Slate (a Washington Post online magazine). They approached me and I gave them a copy of the book and said help themselves to the first chapter inside (which was basically the article they wanted to write). Sales shot through the roof for a while there from the back-links.

So, I guess marketing works, good content works, and good spelling, grammar and covers work as well. But sometimes, in my experience, it is those more intangible elements, especially word of mouth, that drive sales.


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