# Amazon.com is no longer discounting Kindle books



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

As all the authors must have noticed by now, the 20% discount on Kindle books established through DTP are now set to the Digital Price, so books selling at a discount of $ 3.19 are now $3.99. Of course, no announcement was made of this fact, especially to the readers. Just one of those little Amazon peccadilloes -  the subterfuge of the week. Most of my books are priced at $ .99, which is never discounted. The $1.00 will no longer work for an $ .80 price. My $ 3.99 books will remain at that price during July (where they are on sale at Smashwords). In August I'll test a $3.00 price.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

I may be in the minority, but I've been reading a lot of information online for a while that says that publishers were going to hike up the prices of Kindle Books over the next few months. When I noticed the problems that were going on with DTP, I had a nagging suspicion that this was the first step in reestablishing the pricing of Kindle Books. In Amazon's case, they have huge plans to expand their Kindle market and could use a few extra dollars and cents to boost their already incredible profits.

If what you say is true, then this would prove that there was some truth to the rumors after all. Amazon stands to make a considerable profit by not discounting Kindle Books. After all, Kindle sales have been excellent. Why offer a discount on products that are already selling like wildfire? From a marketing standpoint, I can see the sense in it.

However, I do see a backlash coming. From my own declining book sales, I imagine that most Kindle owners have stocked up on so many cheap and free books that they have far more books than they can read. Why keep buying books when you can't keep up with your current backlog of books to read?

I still argue that the whole object of traditional pubs flooding the market with free books was to get rid of us indie authors. Of course, their idea was also to convince readers to purchase the more expensively priced books in a series. But what publishers did not consider is that an indie author has no overhead. We can play the bargain book price game all day long. The big pubs on the other hand cannot. I imgaine that they have shot themselves in the foot by giving away so many books. Their only response is to charge higher prices for their Kindle books. My guess is the DTP situation was only the first stage in an ongoing process to charge more for Kindle books. It should be interesting to see how things play out and if I am correct.


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## Athenagwis (Apr 2, 2009)

Amazon will play around with the Kindle and pricing for a while, especially with Google coming on the boat soon.  Trust me this isn't the last of the pricing games they will play.  It's all about supply and demand and since this is a brand spanking new market, they don't know what the buyers will bear.  They have to find that happy point of price vs. quantity, just like every other market. 

Luckily, $1.00 is no different than 80 cents to me, so I will keep buying Kindleboard books!!  Only difference is I won't hold out for the books I was planning on buying to be discounted now that I know they won't.  That may be some of the slump in sales, people may be waiting for Amazon to catch up, so to speak and apply their discount, once they know they won't, I'm sure things will pick up!  I can't imagine people will stop buying $1.00 books for a 20 cents savings!!

Rachel


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## LCEvans (Mar 29, 2009)

Ed, 
Thanks for posting this. I didn't know--the usual Amazon non-announcement has once again caught me by surprise. I see that my book Night Camp is already up to the 2.99 price, but so far they haven't raised the price on We Interrupt This Date. It's still 2.39 so if anyone wants to buy it, now's the time. It will probably go up to 2.99 at any moment.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Kevis:

As a former Marketing Director, I can tell that the publishing industry does not follow the normal supply and demand rules as the rest of the world. Books are basically either information sources or entertainment. Our books are in the entertainment market, which relies on tastes, however Books are not a mass experience. They are one on one, so an author should ignore marketing trends and especially what other authors or publishers do with their product. You either Have it or don't. Readers either want it or don't. They want you or not. Price can hasten a reading introduction (I hate the word sale in our business) or can become an obstacle, but once a reader has you in hand, it's between you and the reader. A slowing of new readership has little bearing on your marketing success, because today's purchase may be read next week or next year or never. Promoting your name and titles has less to do with "selling" another book (a new introduction) than with enticing your purchasers to become a reader. This is not marketing. This a consumer dynamic. Its similar to the old fashion bookshelf in the old fashioned bookstore, where your title goes from prominent to mid-range to backlist to sale table. The big difference, and more important, my readers own their bookshelf. My books are visible somewhere in the TBR. So I wouldn't get hung up on suspected Amazonian conspiracies. Amazon is not a publisher. It's not even a bookstore. It's a Wal-Mart. I bought my vacuum cleaner and replaced my US Army ring through Amazon. It's a big warehouse and gigantic software stimulus program that we benefit more from than not. However, I am an author, the readers invite me onto their bookshelf, pay me a nominal fee and Amazon a bigger one for the service. My biggest competition are my own books and, believe it or not, American Idol. But that's entertainment. All I ever wnted to do was to write one novel and have one reader other than a family member or a friend Now I have a 12 titles and a few thousand readers, andI'll tell you, the relationship is not fiduciary. It's spiritual.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Kevis:
> 
> As a former Marketing Director, I can tell that the publishing industry does not follow the normal supply and demand rules as the rest of the world. Books are basically either information sources or entertainment. Our books are in the entertainment market, which relies on tastes, however Books are not a mass experience. They are one on one, so an author should ignore marketing trends and especially what other authors or publishers do with their product. You either Have it or don't. Readers either want it or don't. They want you or not. Price can hasten a reading introduction (I hate the word sale in our business) or can become an obstacle, but once a reader has you in hand, it's between you and the reader. A slowing of new readership has little bearing on your marketing success, because today's purchase may be read next week or next year or never. Promoting your name and titles has less to do with "selling" another book (a new introduction) than with enticing your purchasers to become a reader. This is not marketing. This a consumer dynamic. Its similar to the old fashion bookshelf in the old fashioned bookstore, where your title goes from prominent to mid-range to backlist to sale table. The big difference, and more important, my readers own their bookshelf. My books are visible somewhere in the TBR. So I wouldn't get hung up on suspected Amazonian conspiracies. Amazon is not a publisher. It's not even a bookstore. It's a Wal-Mart. I bought my vacuum cleaner and replaced my US Army ring through Amazon. It's a big warehouse and gigantic software stimulus program that we benefit more from than not. However, I am an author, the readers invite me onto their bookshelf, pay me a nominal fee and Amazon a bigger one for the service. My biggest competition are my own books and, believe it or not, American Idol. But that's entertainment. All I ever wnted to do was to write one novel and have one reader other than a family member or a friend Now I have a 12 titles and a few thousand readers, andI'll tell you, the relationship is not fiduciary. It's spiritual.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Ed,

Interestingly enough, I had a strong feeling that you would be inclined to rebuff my earlier statement about the big pubs. Unfortunately, in the current atmosphere with the majors suffering huge losses in profits and refusing to take on any new authors, or in some cases publish any new books, I have to disagree with you (if the point you're trying to make is that they are not feeling the pressure from us indies.) The big publishing houses, like any other company, are in the business of making money, and they will not go away without a fight (not that anyone wants them to go away). It is unfortunate that they are still using an archaic business models which is exclusionary and self-destructive.

If the big pubs were doing a better job publishing the books that ought to be published, the independent publishing industry would not be thriving like it is. Millions of authors have been forced to take it upon themselves to publish their own books in order to get their works read. This "brave new world", as I like to call it, is forcing publishers to become very aggressive towards getting their products sold.

I'm not sure your marketing experience is necessarily applicable in every situation or even this one. To be certain, you may be correct that the publishing world does not typically follow the normal laws of supply and demand. But when an entire industry goes into emergency mode, I think your way of perceiving their methods may be mistaken.

It is not by accident that only within the past few months the big pubs unleashed thousands of free/cheap books on the market (just go to the Kindle Store on Amazon and see how long it takes you to sift through the list of free books). There is no money to be made in giving your product away (we can do this because we want readers). For the big pubs to do this is insane. They want money (and if they don't, then they won't be in business very long). I just don't see how anyone can rationalize the publisher's strategy to give away a significant portion of its catalog to Kindle owners for free as common sense. No one gives away anything for free, especially in the corporate world. I would imagine that someone with your background can appreciate this.

Even if I am wrong in saying that the big pubs feel threatened by the indie publishing industry (which I'm probably not), it's going to be difficult for anyone to prove that publishers aren't suffering from giving away their books. And if they are not, they are certainly not helping their cause. Unlike you and I, the big pubs have a large network of people to pay for their services. I cannot see how it is in their best interests to keep giving away their books, unless they have a plan to recuperate their money at some point. Which leads me to believe that they truly do intend to raise their Kindle book prices to cover the loss of the free books. This isn't any different than the 'buy 1, get 1 free' specials at your neighborhood grocery store.

In the end, my only point was to stress the fact that Kindle owners are voracious readers and that I have talked to many of them who have stockpiled so many books that they are reluctant to purchase new books until they have caught up a bit. We all know that book sales are inconsistent. The economy is slow and since it's summertime, many people are engaging in many outdoor and non-book related activities right now. I am still positive that we will all see a spike in Kindle book prices over the past few months. I don't want to sound like a prophet, but I predicted months ago that once the Kindle book market was flooded with cheap books that sales would drop off. I haven't seen anything so far to prove me wrong.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Why does this not surprise me? I'm getting a little irritated with Amazon.
First, my royalty payments were two months late (although they were early last month), then they wouldn't let me lower the price of my book, and now they're pulling this?

Well, I just went on DTP to lower Waiting For Spring to ninety-nine cents. Hopefully it'll work this time.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

RJ:

I haven't seen my royalties this year.   "Royalties are like quarks - we know they exist, but we just can't see them." I forget who said that, but I liked it and use it often.

Edward C. Patterson


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Great quote!

I wouldn't have minded as much if the $ was for me, but I'm donating mine to Spruce Run. It was sort of awkward to send email after email saying, "Well, the money's there...but it's _not _ there."
Much like a quark.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I donate my Kindle royalties to Kindleboards, so right now I've got a paper deficit going on here. 

BTW, all. another Amazon change. They did away with the carousal scroll on *Customers Who Bought this work also Bought * . . . which would give a full view into buying patterns. They're just a surprise a minute, arn't they.

Edward C. Patterwhatever


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

This is why I LOVE Smashwords. Mark Coker is author-friendly.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Friendly, yes, but I rarely get a sale there unless there is a big promotion going on. Still, I've more sales thee than in that great wastland, Mobipocket. Amazon is still the place to be and is the reason we can share on a large scale.

Ed Patterson


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

True! I just wish we had more control. But it's the price you pay for wider exposure, I suppose.


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## mwvickers (Jan 26, 2009)

There's one thing I know. 

If Amazon Kindle books begin to be almost the same price as traditional books, then I will stop purchasing Kindle books and return to regular ones.  

I like the portability of Kindle, and the other benefits of it (compact, light, not taking up space, etc.), but I refuse to be paying the same amount for an e-book (which I cannot physically hold, only "own" 6 downloads to, etc.) when I can purchase a physical copy of the book that will last a long time.  

But that's just me.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

mwvickers said:


> There's one thing I know.
> 
> If Amazon Kindle books begin to be almost the same price as traditional books, then I will stop purchasing Kindle books and return to regular ones.
> 
> ...


Well, let us hope that Amazon does not start dictating prices to the authors. The pricing is still up to the authors right now, so we should still have some reasonable prices... at least for awhile.


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

Kevis Hendrickson said:


> But what publishers did not consider is that an indie author has no overhead. We can play the bargain book price game all day long.


Do we not pay rent? Or is it your experience that most Indie authors are merely hobbyists?



Kevis Hendrickson said:


> There is no money to be made in giving your product away (we can do this because we want readers).


Say what you want about "traditional publishing" but they do separate the wheat from the chaff. And there are still lots of ways to build up a readership -- even in this woebegone publishing age -- short of "giving your product away." A quick trip to Duotrope.Com or Ralan reveals hundreds and hundreds of markets looking for fiction (I know! Been rejected by many of them.)

Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and even Stephen King all wrote short stories to build up their readership before they began tackling novels. All were rejected many times as they worked on their craft and became better writers. Long before their first novels came out, lots of folks knew who they were.

No reason for someone serious about writing today not to take the same path unless . . . they're not serious, are merely looking for shortcuts, or believe it is somehow their right to be a "published author."

How hard do people try nowadays to get their novels published traditionally before opting for the self-publishing route? How hard do they work trying to make themselves better writers? How many rejections are they sitting on?

Bet I've got more.

Anyway, back on topic and as an FYI, it's not just Kindle books that are not being discounted. I priced the paperback version of "A Truck Story" with the 20% discount in mind, and the discount is not being applied. Seems to be happening across the board.

(PS: A Truck Story is #14 with a bullet in the Sports genre on Amazon! Dick Francis, P.G. Wodehouse, Frank Deford, Rick Reilly, and . . . Brendan Myers? Awesome stuff.)


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I wish I could write short fiction. I might try my hand at it when I clear out my current 10 novel projects, which will be around 2011. My award winning flash story I put out on Author's Den and one other short stor I published as an addendum in Surviving an American Gular. When I was younger (40 years ago) I did write a ream of short fiction, but most of it were try outs for the big ball game. Still, een I write some short fiction, I will probabaly write 30 of them and publish them in collections. I mean I try for 2,000 to 4,000 words a day, so that could be a lot of short fiction,  mean DeMaupassant weight that.

Edward C. Patterson


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I wish I could write short fiction. I might try my hand at it when I clear out my current 10 novel projects, which will be around 2011.


Funny, I didn't try my hand at it until I had four unpublished novels under my belt that weren't going anywhere. I thought that maybe if I built up a few publishing credentials via shorts, just to sort of get my name out there, that the next time I queried my novels I'd be taken more seriously as someone who had indeed already been published in short form. That's supposed to be one path to being reputably published, anyway. So I've heard.

And writers write . . . right? Short or long, doesn't matter how many words the stories are, use only as many words as it takes to tell the tale.

I've just begun what I expect will be my final attempt to query my first novel (written in 2005) again before taking the self-publishing plunge. At least I'll be able to tell myself I gave "traditional publishing" every opportunity. And maybe the quirkiness or semi-autobiographical nature of it just means it isn't right for traditional publishers, or they don't see a huge market for it. Doesn't mean it's bad or unworthy of being published or read, even if only by a few.

But best of luck to you with your obviously daunting schedule!


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

I envy you guys who can do novels but not short stories. I wish I had that problem. I'm the opposite. I can do short stories all day long but I struggle with doing anything longer.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

When you're ready to Indie-publish (self-publish is a dying term), let me know. I'll send you a free copy of


Spoiler



Are You Still Submitting Your Work to a Traditional Publisher?


 [email protected] in .pdf format.

Edward C. Patterson

PS: That goes for everyone.


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

CS said:


> I envy you guys who can do novels but not short stories. I wish I had that problem. I'm the opposite. I can do short stories all day long but I struggle with doing anything longer.


In my own experience, it's really the story itself that determines length, not any pre-set guideline or anything. Keep at it! Because someday, when you least expect it, you'll be writing a story and find yourself 40,000 or so words in and not even be halfway done . . .

(PS: 'amember . . . how a few weeks ago . . . you had some kind words about "A Truck Story?" If you might (and I hesitate to even ask and will never mention it again. I'll certainly understand why for a variety of reasons you wouldn't . . .) be kind enough to perhaps add that as a review on Amazon.Com, I'd be forever in your debt. But regardless, thanks for the kind words themselves. They meant a lot.)


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> When you're ready to Indie-publish (self-publish is a dying term), let me know. I'll send you a free copy of
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Grateful, Ed, and appreciate it.

In terms of . . . ahem . . . the term . . . words are important. I prefer to call something what it really is.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Ah, but Indie-Publishing is so much more than Self-publishing - many more responsibilities. That's why I wrote a book about it, a book that has caught on and has, in its short life, garnered quite a number of 5 stars on Amazon.com.

BTW all - although I don't like the self-publishing label and am a member of the Publetariat.com gang, here's the poop and statistics on the subject from an excellent site with tons of fun statistics on the state of the publishing and indie publishing industry. Enjoy it.

http://www.selfpublishingresources.com/Booknews.htm

Edward C. Patterson


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> here's the poop and statistics on the subject from an excellent site with tons of fun statistics on the state of the publishing and indie publishing industry. Enjoy it.
> 
> http://www.selfpublishingresources.com/Booknews.htm
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


_"The New York Times reported that "According to a recent survey, 81% of people feel that they have a book in them...and should write it."_

Gonna go out on a limb here and say that more than 80% of those people . . . are wrong.

(Kidding . . . mostly.)

Appreciate the link!


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

I know there are people who don't like the term "indie-publisher or -writer" for whatever reason, usually because they feel we're trying to make ourselves into something we're not. Putting lipstick on a pig. That kind of thing. (Although I'm not attributing that to you personally...I don't know you and wouldn't presume). Indie - to me - means independent of mainstream publishing, period. I use it interchangably with self-publishing, and I use both terms unashamedly. Recently I've heard the term "direct publishing" which I think is very appropriate for what I'm personally trying to do...get my work out directly to readers.



> Gonna go out on a limb here and say that more than 80% of those people . . . are wrong.


I totally agree with you.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> When you're ready to Indie-publish (self-publish is a dying term), let me know. I'll send you a free copy of
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Ed, it turns out I already have a copy of your PDF. I know I never e-mailed you for it, so I'm thinking I must've gotten it through Smashwords.

(Yep, I just checked. It's in my Smashwords library, and there's a Mobi version too. Yay! I will DL that and add it to my Kindle.)



BP Myers said:


> In my own experience, it's really the story itself that determines length, not any pre-set guideline or anything. Keep at it! Because someday, when you least expect it, you'll be writing a story and find yourself 40,000 or so words in and not even be halfway done . . .


This is excellent advice, and from my own experiences, very true. Thank you.



> (PS: 'amember . . . how a few weeks ago . . . you had some kind words about "A Truck Story?" If you might (and I hesitate to even ask and will never mention it again. I'll certainly understand why for a variety of reasons you wouldn't . . .) be kind enough to perhaps add that as a review on Amazon.Com, I'd be forever in your debt. But regardless, thanks for the kind words themselves. They meant a lot.)


I just posted one. It's a bit unorthodox, so no idea when (if?) Amazon will let it through. Here it is, just in case.



> *Dear John Henry...*
> 
> Mr. Henry,
> 
> ...


Like I said, a bit unorthodox, but I think it captures the spirit of your story well.


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

CS said:


> I just posted one. It's a bit unorthodox, so no idea when (if?) Amazon will let it through. Here it is, just in case.
> 
> Like I said, a bit unorthodox, but I think it captures the spirit of your story well.


Wow, CS. Just wow. Woulda been grateful for a quick and dirty cut 'n paste . . . but that is so much more.

Can't thank you enough. Gonna be smiling -- literally -- all day long.

(Last name is spelled "Myers" though, if you wouldn't mind taking a minute for a quick edit . . .)

Thanks again. Truly.

PS: I'm so glad I found this place.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

BP Myers said:


> (Last name is spelled "Myers" though, if you wouldn't mind taking a minute for a quick edit . . .)


D'OH! What a clumsy error on my part, considering that Fort Myers is in my state and I should know better.  Anyway, it's fixed now - both here and on Amazon. (Not sure if it's up yet for everyone on Amazon, but it's there on my screen at least, so I was able to edit.)


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

CS said:


> D'OH! What a clumsy error on my part, considering that Fort Myers is in my state and I should know better.  Anyway, it's fixed now - both here and on Amazon. (Not sure if it's up yet for everyone on Amazon, but it's there on my screen at least, so I was able to edit.)


Looks beautiful, CS. Thanks again.

I did indeed send a complimentary copy to "Mr. Henry." I'll let you know if I hear anything back!



rjkeller said:


> I know there are people who don't like the term "indie-publisher or -writer" for whatever reason, usually because they feel we're trying to make ourselves into something we're not. Putting lipstick on a pig.


Not sure if this was addressed to me, but as we both currently share the same publisher, I certainly don't feel that way.



Love your blog as well. Liked it so much I just linked to it from my own . . . rare honor, indeed!

While there, I took a moment to read the _ Waiting for Spring_ page. If the book is half as well-written as that page, it's powerful stuff indeed.

Congratulations and best wishes.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

All Romance E-Books has followed suit and dropped the discount.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

> we both currently share the same publisher


Ha ha! 
Love that.

My comment was directed to hesitance at the term 'indie' in general. I vacillate between feeling that labels of this kind are completely irrelevant - because good writing will stand out regardless of how it's put out there - and feeling that they're of monumental importance - because of those who look down their noses at self-publishing. Fortunately, there are a growing number of readers who don't care about the politics of the publishing world. They just want to read a good book.

And right back atcha with the blog link. Your Blue Suede Shoes post is brilliant.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Self-publishing, in many cases, means giving up your rights to a publishing house or a vanity house for a period of time. ie. PublshAmerica, iUniverse. You are surrendering yourslf to a service that "self-publishes" for you, where you surrender some if not all control. Indie-publishing means, you are in control and responsible for every aspect of the publication and YOU hold the rights never surrendering them. The minute you're picked up by another house . . . and sign a contract, then the work ceases to be Indie-Published. 

Just clarifying.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

The carousel is still there.  There are 24 books listed as being purchased by those who purchased AP.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Let me check again, Gertie. My carousels have disappeaed, even on Stephen King's pages and the my amazon pages. perhaps it was a glitch. oing to check it out.

Ed P


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Okay. My carousels are gone, but only in Window's Explorer. In Firefox, they appear. This is not the first time that Amazon touches its programming and I lose functions. For example, I cannot upload my manuscripts in DTP. The botton will not work. I either need to send the file to my work machine (Windows Explorer earlier addition) or use Firefox, where I can do it. So I guess, it Amazon-Windows Explorer glitch . . .again. I'm glad, because I use the carousel as a marketing gauge. So at least I can see it when I use firefox. Thanks Gertie for the feedback and allowing me to troubleshoot the problem as "on my side"

Edward C. Patterson


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Self-publishing, in many cases, means giving up your rights to a publishing house or a vanity house for a period of time. ie. PublshAmerica, iUniverse. You are surrendering yourslf to a service that "self-publishes" for you, where you surrender some if not all control. Indie-publishing means, you are in control and responsible for every aspect of the publication and YOU hold the rights never surrendering them. The minute you're picked up by another house . . . and sign a contract, then the work ceases to be Indie-Published.
> 
> Just clarifying.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Without a trace of sarcasm, let me offer a hearty thanks for the reminder.


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

Interestingly enough, my Kindle book, The Summoner, still has its 80 cent price, at least right now.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

I ran into this trouble about 3 weeks ago, when I was preparing to make a promotional TV appearance. I wanted to discount my two books to hopefully spur a few sales. I changed my pricing...and nothing happened. It also doesn't list the publisher. I'm guessing it must have been one of the first books to go up under the new changes.


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

I tell you, this board is an interesting place to talk shop. I've tried at writing conferences, but if you've done a self-publishing venture, it's like you've sold out. 

Really, I think all this has to do with the publishing companies. Maybe they caused a fuss with the discounts. The extra discount was getting confusing when trying to set a price. They seemed to like the 9.99 price that 20% discount might have ruined their numbers.
And with the no discount thing that has started up, maybe the marketing the books to be cheaper is working. People are going for discounts and lower prices. Maybe we hit a funny bone with some people undercutting the big publishers. I noticed some Indie Pub. books that are free are hitting number one and getting more notice than ever before. 

It's weird now that Amazon got rid of the discount. But they could be planning for another one. It probably has to be rewritten to make it happen. Who knows what Amazon is up to sometimes. But since they are the distributor, they have probably more power than Barnes and Nobles now. 
It is an exciting time to see what will happen. I feel like I'm on the initial wave of something big.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

I'm not good with numbers as previously plead on some other thread... hey, that rhymes, but could this non-discounting thing have anything to do with the economy?  I mean maybe Amazon is looking to make more profit in these *trying* times.  I don't know.  I'm just saying, but then I'm not into economics or high finance.  Any ideas out there?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Brendan Carroll said:


> I'm not good with numbers as previously plead on some other thread... hey, that rhymes, but could this non-discounting thing have anything to do with the economy? I mean maybe Amazon is looking to make more profit in these *trying* times. I don't know. I'm just saying, but then I'm not into economics or high finance. Any ideas out there?


I have noticed that electricians, mechanics, etc., are raising their prices because business is down. Could be Amazon is doing the same thing.

We need an "Indie Authors" union.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Amazon pays the royalty (when they do - that's another issue), on the DRP, not the discount. If e want the books at a specific price, we really shouldn;t rely on an Amazon discount. e should just change the price to what the reders are clamoring for (excuse the dangling participle). 

Ed Patterson


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

In Amazon's defense, the big pubs had figured out how to game the old discount system. Many were raising their DLP way above the PLP and then Amazon would discount it to 9.99 and give the pub 35% of the original DLP which meant that Amazon was frequently losing money on a sale. That just can't continue


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> In Amazon's defense, the big pubs had figured out how to game the old discount system. Many were raising their DLP way above the PLP and then Amazon would discount it to 9.99 and give the pub 35% of the original DLP which meant that Amazon was frequently losing money on a sale. That just can't continue


So, I'm not so good with initials either... or are those anagrams? What is DLP, PLP? But yeah, I think I got the idea right the first time. Money is the bottom line after all and I'm all for making money. I was sort of expecting Amazon to set a pricing limit sooner or later. Better that than discontinue the program. 

Ed: Your


Spoiler



dangling part.


 is excused.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

DLP = Digital List Price
PLP = Print List Price

*oops*


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## Erik Williams (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm not only having trouble getting the discounted price, Amazon won't give me my listed price.  I list for $.99, they jack it up to $1.25.  I list it for $1.00, they jack it up to $1.25.  WTF?  If the want the minimum to be $1.25, make it that.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

With all this pricing madness, I was going to park my books at $.99 and just leave them there. However, I'm giving Amazon 2 weeks to get their bugs worked out. If discounts return, then I'm not doing anything. But hearing the weirdness going on just makes me want to leave my hands in my lap for now.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> DLP = Digital List Price
> PLP = Print List Price
> 
> *oops*


Thanks for clearing that up... well, at leas partially . I leave the numbers to my editor. She is good with numbers, words and hats. You might have heard of her? Miss Penney Washbucket?  Thanks seriously. I think I get the picture. It was all good for a while and then someone gets their eye poked out . I still think that anything under $3 is a steal, especially considering how much work went into these novels. I know how much blood, sweat and tears went in and how much is still going in on my own works . I think the readers appreciate our efforts to get our work to them at such bargain prices, but business is business and Amazon wouldn't be Amazon if they didn't turn a profit now and then.  I'm just glad they provided the venue for me or else I'd still be sitting in the dimly lit dungeon of oblivion, writing with a nappy quill pen on the toilet paper roll.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm a bit confused.  Retailers run sales all the time.  SALES END.  That is what makes them sales.  If Amazon chose to discount Kindle titles for a short time, why would it be evil, immoral, or fattening for them to decide to end the sale?  

Sales and discounts are designed to encourage customers to make an immediate decision.  If the "discounts" become permanent, the sense of urgency to make a decision is lost...and in the majority of cases, so is the sale.  

Any discount offered by a retailer is a reason to engage in direct advertising promotions, but it should never be the sole marketing method depended on.


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## mwvickers (Jan 26, 2009)

For my part, I realize that sales come and go.  

If I'm understanding it correctly, though, these don't seem to be just a few sales changing or ending; it seems like all of them are at one time.  That's a little odd.  

I could be wrong, though.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

What bothers me isn't the end of the discount, it's the lack of notification to authors that it was ending.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

I think the authors who are affected the most by the removal of discounts are the ones who do not have control of setting their retail price. Fortunately, most indie authors don't have this problem and can always list their books at a price that is similar if not identical to the discount price.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

We do have an advantage there, don't we?


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> What bothers me isn't the end of the discount, it's the lack of notification to authors that it was ending.


Why would they have to tell you? THEY put the stuff on sale. The discount came out of their profit, not yours. They have no legal or moral obligation to tell you. I doubt it even occurred to them that it would be an issue.

Indie authors needs to start thinking like businesses. It isn't ABOUT you. You are one of a million authors with books on Amazon. It's doubtful an actual human at Amazon even knows you exist. Most of the system is automated. As a retailer, Amazon has no real reason to even consider telling you anything about upcoming sales or discounts, and I can think of a dozen legitimate business reasons NOT to tell you.

Your pricing structure should be independent of whatever sales or discounts Amazon runs.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

In all humility, Indie Authors by definition are in control of their own pricing. Amazon is just a distributor, warehouse, shipper and partner in crime. We are not contracted to have anything by the minimal communications with them, and since they are having enough trouble patching their DTP system as it is, the most we can do it take our individual requests to their feedback department and hope for the best.  However, RJ I know where you're coming from and since this is not a true discussion thread inviting debate, I respect your expression in this arena for support.  

Edward C. Patterson


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> We do have an advantage there, don't we?


Sure do. Here's an example:

I am familiar with a POD published author whose book was priced at $9.99 thanks to Amazon's discount. Needless to say at $9.99, this new author is having a tough time selling her book which isn't surprising since she is a unknown author with no readership (In fact, I don't think she's ever sold a Kindle Book). However, now that Amazon has gotten rid of the discount on her book, it is now currently priced at $21.95. How many books do you figure she's going to sell now? Unfortunately, her publisher is the one who sets her retail price, not her.

Although some people may scoff at my logic, I do not think indie authors have the excuse of claiming overhead like a traditional publisher. So technically, it is much easier for indie authors to price their books as low as they like. It is very likely that because some publishers were charging outrageous prices for thier kindle books knowing that Amazon would discount them (and by doing so, creating a situation where Amazon had to pay back royalties that were greater than the discounted price of the book) forced Amazon to stop discounting Kindle Books. It looks like a few books escaped their initial sweep. But I am almost convinced that Amazon is no longer going to discount any Kindle Books for the foreseeable future.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Bardandsages...I think I missed something.

I KNOW I can price my book in whatever way I want to, independently of Amazon's discount. I like that powah and take advantage of it when I can. But Amazon's making money off of me, too. No, they do not have an obligation to tell me, but a mass "we're discontinuing the 20% discount" email woulda been nice. They send them out about other issues, so why not this? Still, I do understand that it's my responsibility to check back to see what's going on with my book, which I usually do. I dropped the ball this time.

Other than that, what I'm REALLY irritated about (which is what I posted in my original comment on this thread) is that I WASN'T allowed to discount my book for several weeks. I understand it's a glitch, and that it's been remedied. But it still irritated me, because I'd let readers know that I was planning on offering a discount, and then it wasn't there. That cost me sales. It was bad for what you could call "my business."

I like Amazon. I like having my book available on Kindle. I love this board and its members. I've stated that many a time and oft. But am I _not _ allowed to voice my displeasure here on an author-friendly forum without incurring your obvious disdain, especially when I've never had any other encounter with you on this board?


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

My two cents: As a customer, I will obviously miss the discount. However, since indie authors can price their books at - or close to - their previous discount rates, it's not the major deal it could be.

In any case, if I have to pay 30 cents more for a book, so be it. I did that with Dave Dykema's "Wrong Number" when there was a discount glitch and it didn't bother me.

However, the problem comes in when authors - like Erik Williams earlier in this thread - cannot actually get the prices they want. That *is* an issue, and one that Amazon needs to rectify ASAP.


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

bardsandsages said:


> Indie authors needs to start thinking like businesses.


Amen.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> Other than that, what I'm REALLY irritated about (which is what I posted in my original comment on this thread) is that I WASN'T allowed to discount my book for several weeks. I understand it's a glitch, and that it's been remedied. But it still irritated me, because I'd let readers know that I was planning on offering a discount, and then it wasn't there. That cost me sales. It was bad for what you could call "my business."


This is a completely different issue than the one I was referring to. You were specifically citing irritability about Amazon not informing you that it was discontinuing the discounts. My point is that they had no reason to even consider that they needed to tell you. The above point has nothing to do with my response, and is therefore a strawman argument.



rjkeller said:


> But am I not allowed to voice my displeasure here on an author-friendly forum without incurring your obvious disdain, especially when I've never had any other encounter with you on this board?


If by _disdain _ you mean voicing a logical opinion that you do not agree with, then I suppose that would be true. I didn't realize I was required to have a set post count before I was allowed to voice MY opinion if that opinion disagreed with you. I do apologize. I didn't read that part of the user agreement when I signed up for the forums.

But really, your response is sort of part of my point. Folks need a bit thicker of a skin. Disagreeing with an opinion does not automatically equate to a personal attack. You automatically read my post as a personal attack, even though it doesn't include anything remotely insulting toward you personally. You assumed a personal attack where there was merely a different perspective. Self-publishing authors need to remove themselves from the equation when making decisions, if for no other reason than to maintain their own sanity!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

That's the difference between "self-published" authors and "Indie-authors." Indie-authors are responsible for every point in the process. RJ, I'm glad that you enjoyed my interview yesterday where I discuss this issue, which of course is discussed in detail in "Are You Still . . . TradiPub." It is frustrating that communications between indie author (publisher) and our distributor and marketing shelf are not always what we would like them to be, but Amazon is not a publisher after all. You are. And if this was a Tradition publisher, communications would most likely be worse and beyond your control. As long as you remain in control of all processes, you'll be fine. I am finding that by squeaking as loud as possible to dt-feedback, I DO get a response (takes a week) but given the size of the dragon, there's a long journey from tail to snout. For instance, DTP has stopped reporting my sales again since yesterday. I'm hopping right on it. I think that they changed one of their processing streams again (I mean Amazon is nothing more than a giant programming matrix), because I tracked one sale from point of sale to point of reporting and it took 2 days. Now yesterday I had a flurry of sales, none have been reported yet. To stay in control of such things, you need additional tools. One of the best is titleZ.com, which tracks your ranks and also shows you on a graph when you have had sales. So you can see sales activity before it hits your reports (sometimes). My The Jade Owl ranking improved from 70,000 to 5,000 yesterday (the Book Klub be praised), but nary a sale report yet - but they show up in TitleZ.com. TitleZ.com is handy also to track your promoting decision process. When you have a dozen books, you don;t want to promote the same one day after day in the same place, otherwise it will be regard by some snipers as SPAM, which of course, it could be. So using tools like TitleZ.com, you can make decisions on which book and where and enter the natural and convivial flow of promoting and let the snipers take aim at someone else (they will take aim, you know. They live for it. No SPAM, no snipers). 

Edward C. Patterson


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Obviously my posts in this thread came across as a foot-stomping tantrum. 

Believe me...it wasn't. I KNOW they don't have to tell me. Honest. I know there's no obligation. Was I irritated? Yes, I was. It would've been _nice _ to know. That's all I'm saying. And all I was doing - I thought - was commiserating a little among friends, (with little laughy smilies to boot) not damning Amazon to hell for not conforming to my wishes.

My skin is plenty thick enough. Believe me. Those who know me know that. I'm involved in too many ventures to have a thin skin. Not being notified of a 20% barely registered on my scale. I just came across this thread at the wrong time, and now I'm irritated at _myself _. What I should have said is "Thanks for the heads up, Ed. I didn't notice the discount had been discontinued." I'll make sure my posts are more temperate from now on.

Edited to add: It occurs to me that this post might come across as sarcastic. It's not meant to. If only I could post through Skype so you could see my facial expressions. (Stacey has ruined me.)
That is all.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Actually, your original post was perfect.  

Ed P


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks Ed. It's so hard to know sometimes how the words come across on forums like this. It's very different from writin' novels.


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## BP Myers (Jun 7, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> It occurs to me that this post might come across as sarcastic. It's not meant to. If only I could post through Skype so you could see my facial expressions. (Stacey has ruined me.)
> That is all.


No sarcasm that I can see. I think you're both saying the same thing as well, with perhaps a difference in style.

At any rate, I agree with you both.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

You people are ALL in Violent Agreement!


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

oops...wrong thread


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## JH88 (Jul 8, 2009)

BP Myers said:


> Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and even Stephen King all wrote short stories to build up their readership before they began tackling novels. All were rejected many times as they worked on their craft and became better writers. Long before their first novels came out, lots of folks knew who they were.


Aye, that's what I'm trying to do. Or wanted to do on the Kindle anyway, but it's tough to sell short stories for $0.99 when you can get a novel at the same price. It would have been nice to get more price flexibility, or at least a discount. It feels like I'm running a con job here. Any advice or help that anybody could give me would be appreciated. I would compile all of them in time, but it just ruins the spontaneity that I enjoy.

BTW - It's a shame when this forum is better than the one ran by Amazon. Everything is neat and ordered!


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> You people are ALL in Violent Agreement!


I've always found that to be the most effective kind


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