# All you bottom feeders out there- how do you cope?



## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Okay- sorry- bottom feeders is a bit harsh but I wanted your attention. But I am shouting out to the indie authors here who, despite the hard work and the long hours of nursing your baby to being online and for sale, just can't get more than a few dozen sales a month--- if THAT!

Because I am there and I'm wondering how some of you manage to keep going in the face of such a huge brick wall staring you in the face every morning. And it's kind of disheartening to keep seeing others bragging ( rightfully so, too) about their own great sales each week/month.

Please share bits of survival wisdom because I need some. ( and embarrassed lurkers can peek in and jot down ideas as well)


----------



## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I was thinking about doing a similar post today... my first month(June) was encouraging, but since then sales have been single digits - slow, but steady.

I think part of how I carry on is that I know that I've only got one real book out there, and that, sporadically I'm working on a second one (hope to have it out by Christmas) - but I know that my genre isn't a hot one, or really even a luke warm one - there's not much call for non-illustrated children's fairy tales in the spirit of Andrew Lang. I get good reviews (even one in Italian - how cool is that?) but very few sales.

I just look at it like this - each sale is to someone who doesn't know me and doesn't love me. It's one more sale than I would have gotten had I never published. 

but then, I never even pretended to myself that I'd make a living out of selling my fairy tales. I'm a hobbyist writer. If I can take my family out to dinner occasionally on the royalties, that's cool.


----------



## burke_KB (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, I've been writing since I was a little kid, and I kind of figure I'll be doing it until I die. So, my only concern is spending too much money on a hobby. 

And that is something I have complete control over. 

If it takes off, I can quit my day job, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

FrankZubek said:


> Okay- sorry- bottom feeders is a bit harsh but I wanted your attention. But I am shouting out to the indie authors here who, despite the hard work and the long hours of nursing your baby to being online and for sale, just can't get more than a few dozen sales a month--- if THAT!
> 
> Because I am there and I'm wondering how some of you manage to keep going in the face of such a huge brick wall staring you in the face every morning. And it's kind of disheartening to keep seeing others bragging ( rightfully so, too) about their own great sales each week/month.
> 
> Please share bits of survival wisdom because I need some. ( and embarrassed lurkers can peek in and jot down ideas as well)


Hi! I just read the blurb to Martin's House of Books. It strikes me as a delightful book, but I am confused about the YA tag. Oh and the best thing I can suggest is a sugar mama to get you through the lean times. LOL.


----------



## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

This is still my first year. I only have two books out. I'm not too worried. I'm in this for the long haul.


----------



## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

I should add that its not a total loss on my part- I recently had a 3 day freebie and people from around the world downloaded around 120 copies of my books. Hopefully one or two will at least drop a review.

Still.....   I continue to hammer away at new stuff but it's still very much an uphill climb ( sometimes it feels straight up as if there aren't enough rungs in my ladder to take me to the top).


----------



## wilsonharp (Jun 5, 2012)

In the words of Winston Churchill:

""Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never — in nothing, great or small, large or petty — never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense."


----------



## SarahCarter (Nov 8, 2012)

I keep reminding myself that having just a few readers still beats having none at all!

Then I sigh lots...


----------



## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Cini   Martin is targeted at teen girls ( young adult) but anyone of any age over 13 can read it. Has some minor language and there is a tornado in there toward the end but, yeah, I think it's a delightful book too! Thanks for the compliment. It helps.


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I cope because with my prices, a few dozen sales means hundreds of dollars in my bank account.

Also knowing that if I get off my butt (or onto it, really) and write more, I'll make more. I always see sales bumps with each new release.  It's like buying a lottery ticket that is guaranteed to at least hit one number and get me the price of another ticket.  Or as I joke with my husband, printing money, only you never know if you are printing pennies or hundreds.


----------



## johnlmonk (Jul 24, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Hi! I just read the blurb to Martin's House of Books. It strikes me as a delightful book, but I am confused about the YA tag. Oh and the best thing I can suggest is a sugar mama to get you through the lean times. LOL.


Cinasjoy = awesome on a stick.

Regarding all the bottom-feeder stuff:
Hah. It's true for me so far. It reminds me of a poem:

"Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite them, and little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum."

You know what else reminds me of a poem? This poem by David Gerrold:

"A poem is good when it's crude,
Gross, titilating and lewd.
But this one is clean, unless you are seen,
Reading it aloud in the nude."

Cheers


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

FrankZubek said:


> Cini Martin is targeted at teen girls ( young adult) but anyone of any age over 13 can read it. Has some minor language and there is a tornado in there toward the end but, yeah, I think it's a delightful book too! Thanks for the compliment. It helps.


I figured from the blurb that it was targeted at bibliophiles. 

Oh and please let me know if you run another freebie promo.


----------



## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I wouldn't class myself using _quite_ the term you used! However, I sell an average of a book or two a month.

I cope because I know that:

(a) The works I have out so far are shorter works (from around 4,300 words to around 20,000).

(b) Although they are all romances, they have different settings - historical fantasy, alternate universe present/future fantasy, contemporary romance.

(c) I'm doing barely any publicity (adding them to my sig, blog, a few listing websites, Goodreads, Pinterest, etc. - no adverts or anything like that.)

(d) I'm not exactly managing a fast rate of publishing at the moment!

(e) Other than my shortest work at 99 cents, the other two are at $2.99, which is at the higher end for that length.

(f) My sales are perfectly normal given the above - in fact, I'm actually doing slightly better than I would have expected to be doing!

It's very easy to see all the big sales numbers knocking around and think that if you aren't selling at least 100 books a month, ideally 1,000 books a month, then you're somehow failing. I was a member here for over a year before I hit publish. I also Googled extensively & read blog posts & other forum posts. It's hard to find the info on sales at the lower end of things, but it was there. I've seen Kboarders post about how they started out only selling a book or two, then ten or twenty, then hundreds, then a thousand, then sometimes thousands.

It seemed to me that the average tipping point tended to come around the 6th to 8th novel, with at least one series & most of the works in a similar genre. I'd guestimate that this has now moved up to the 10th novel because of increased challenges when it comes to visibility. My plan is to not worry about sales until I have that many novels out (and I still haven't got my first one out yet!) At that point, if sales are still poor, then I'd have enough books out to make it worth looking at spending money on advertising.

Plus, I'm planning for the long term. I don't mind if someone buys one of my books now or in ten years time. If someone doesn't discover me until my twelfth title - well - then I'll have another eleven stories that they might want to buy.


----------



## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

It took 4 years of HARD work before I considered this endeavor of mine a success. 
I published my first book in 2008, and a year later contemplated quitting. 
I continued to build my platform and push that book (hard).
I published my next book in 2011. 
I now have 10 books up on Amazon and am making more money that I ever have in my life. 
But I wish during 2008-2011 I would've got my butt in gear and wrote more books.
I'm way behind.



My words of wisdom have been said many times here:

Build relationships with your readers and write more books. You never know when one book might catch a spark and then your entire bookshelf will take off!


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

KayBratt said:


> It took 4 years of HARD work before I considered this endeavor of mine a success.
> I published my first book in 2008, and a year later contemplated quitting.
> I continued to build my platform and push that book (hard).
> I published my next book in 2011.
> ...


This is the advice that keeps me going!! Thank you Kay.


----------



## AmberDa1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Thank you, Kay and love your covers!


----------



## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

Listen Frank - I have sat and watched my Kindle sales freaking PLUMMET over the summer - and even before that.

Now - just these last couple of weeks I've begun a renewed campaign to goose those sales up a bit.

And I have seen some results in just these last couple of weeks. Brown bars have begun to slowly disappear.

I've got a big Friday 13th push coming in four days. I've got more promotion planned over the month of October. I am already beginning to figure on Christmas.

(thanks, Elle)

I have just begun to fight!

The good thing about being on the bottom is it gives you a pretty good idea which direction you need to head in.

Remember this - and this is coming from a hybrid author who still has foot in the traditionally-published camp.

These aren't the old days. This isn't the era when books would poop around on the bookstore shelves for three or four weeks before getting their covers torn off and their pages thrown into the landfill. Brothers and sisters we are publishing freaking kowabunga e-books - tiny wonderful immortal bundles of raw data that CANNOT BE KILLED.

Sure, you may be on the bottom today. But that doesn't mean you have to stay there. Roll your pennies and collect your bottles and sell your baby sister for a couple of brand new nifty covers. Plan that next big promotion - with about three more promotions after it. Write a new book - or three new books - each one of them and advertisement and a potential life line for those books of yours that are inspecting the be-barnacled belly of the Titanic.

Remember - children - the e in e-books stands for EVOLUTION - which rhymes with REVOLUTION - which bespeaks of wheels and cycles and whatever is on the freaking bottom rising up again to the top.

Get at it now. Get writing and get promoting and just forget about the numbers are telling you now. E-rase that blackboard and e-volve your product and e-something-or-other yourself the heck off that bottom and back up to the top where you belong!

Go dog go. I think I just wrote me a brand new blog entry!

http://stevevernonstoryteller.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/bottom-dwelling-e-book-authors-rise-up/


----------



## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

I just don't worry about it. Writing books helps me pay a few bills each month, and that's a wonderful thing. The way I see it, I'm making a few hundred dollars a month that I wouldn't have had otherwise, and that definitely helps me keep going. Who knows? One of my releases might take off and I could have a full-time career. I have already had two books do exceptionally well since I started last year, although the steam has run out on both of them. 

I guess my point is not to spend time stressing about it. I know what it's like to release a new book and only sell 10 copies. It sucks. Hard. Just keep writing and remember to stay positive. Examine things like your cover and blurb periodically to see if there's anything that could ever use updating or improvement. Other than that, write your next book.


----------



## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

Brian Spangler said:


> This is the advice that keeps me going!! Thank you Kay.


You are welcome. And my prediction for you is that Gray Skies will (eventually) go big.



AmberDa1 said:


> Thank you, Kay and love your covers!


Thanks so much! I love them too, for the most part.


----------



## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

> A few dozen sales a month


BRAGGART!


----------



## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

I think of it like a lottery ticket... If i give up now, I definitely won't be successful. When that doesn't work, I remind myself I haven't gotten any bad reviews- what few I've gotten were good. So I keep plugging away. It's all about luck anyways. And you never know when you'll get lucky and your books will take off.


----------



## Jill James (May 8, 2011)

When I started in 2011 I sold 300 books my first whole month. I've never matched that since. Sometimes I feel like the only person whose sales fall when they release a new book. LOL  I did okay in June with a permafree, but July and August sucked.


----------



## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

> A few dozen sales a month





ElisaBlaisdell said:


> BRAGGART!


I know I'm jealous!!!

A few dozen a month is what, at least 36 a month? That's more than a sale a day. I'd take it! 

To be fair though, the people selling way more than I am are also writing in genres way more popular than mine is. I decided to write what I write, and I knew what I was getting into. I wouldn't change what I write for anything. And I cope by telling myself that I am selling a perfectly normal (if not decent) amount of books for a self-published writer of contemporary/literary fiction who has one single novel out, plus one short story that released last week. *shrugs*


----------



## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Well, I sell more than a couple dozen a month, but not nearly enough to call it a wage. How do I cope? I have this insane belief that my books are fabulous. Even though not every reader will like them, enough will to make a living eventually, I just need that lucky break. And, yes, continue to work hard. 
I keep writing.
I'm a person that listens to my gut more than my head or heart. My gut tells me I will make it. My gut seldom lies. That's what keeps me going. Then again, perhaps I really am insane.


----------



## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I wrote about a topic kind of like this last year on my blog - The Times That Try Writer's Souls.

But that was for all kinds of writers, not just the "bottom feeders." (Because everybody has bad times at some time or other.)

I'm a non-commercial writer. I have settled on that term because I am not especially a literary writer, and not a hobbyist, in that I write full time. But what I want to write is not commercial. People can't tell at a glance whether it's something they'll like or not.

And when you write that sort of thing, it's a different lifestyle. It requires different strategies, and it sure as heck has a different time frame. It's more about hand-selling, and branding and word-of-mouth. And if it's hard to hand-sell those first readers on a story, it can take a long long time to build up the readership to get a reaction going.

My strategy right now is to write more shorter works. I'm doing this for two reasons. One is simply that people are more likely to try them, and, since I write across multiple genres/subjects, I can more quickly have follow- up books out there. But the other reason is because most of my work is more suited to shorter lengths. I am a child of the movies. I think in novella and novelette lengths.

There are other strategies, of course. I started a thread here for reporting on my current strategies for non-commercial writing, but since it is slow going, I don't often have anything to report. (Anybody else want to join in and report their own slow-going strategies, please do: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,159945.0.html )

Camille


----------



## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

My sales picked up from around 40 a month to several hundred+ per month once I started using more paid ads as my main marketing and did less promoting. It's expensive, but I usually make my money back plus a little extra, and I have more time to socialize with readers and write new books. Others bragging keeps me motivated


----------



## SVD (Jan 15, 2013)

I nap ....a lot.


----------



## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

JFHilborne said:


> My sales picked up from around 40 a month to several hundred+ per month once I started using more paid ads as my main marketing and did less promoting. It's expensive, but I usually make my money back plus a little extra, and I have more time to socialize with readers and write new books. Others bragging keeps me motivated


While I haven't ever made a profit at it, I have found that the right ad for the right book can be the most efficient form of marketing.

However, oddly, I never found any of the standard advertising venues mentioned here work for me at all. I had some luck using Project Wonderful. However, again, it had to be the right ad for the right book. I couldn't just plug another ad in and have it work the same way.

Camille


----------



## momilp (Jan 11, 2010)

How do I cope? Well, I don't deny there are days when I feel rather blue about the whole endeavor. But I love writing and I can't see myself doing anything else, and so I try harder to make it work, to get visibility, to build a readership. Tomorrow, I have a free promo, my first, and I am terrified. I have been working on it for the last three weeks. I have contacted more than fifty websites and I hope a few of them will feature my promo. If the promo will end up in a failure, I'll find something else. And then something different. Meanwhile, I write. It can only get better.


----------



## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I was selling more than a dozen a month for a while but those golden days are gone.

I cope because I only have one novel out and that was sitting on my hard drive for a few years after I'd got no interest shipping it around.  I figure every dollar (or 0.35 cent of a 0.99 cent promo) is money I'd have not made if it was still unpublished.


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Mutter in incoherent bitterness, mostly.

But honestly, I had realistic projections about where I would be by now, and I'm ahead of target (except September has been brutal). I'm releasing two books this month, plus a paperback edition and finishing a series in November, so let's see how things roll out by then.


----------



## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

I have a friend who was pretty much in the same boat. Barely selling a book a day. Then she goes and releases a book, she does no promotion whatsoever and BOOM that book took off! She was literally at the point that she was contemplating tossing in the towel, waving the white flag, whatever. She was done. I encouraged her to not quit because the cool thing is that you just never know if it's the next book that will make you.

Guess what happened, she sold 9k copies of that book in one month of its release... her very extensive backlist has also seen a huge bump in sales. When we say it literally can take one book, it's so very, very true. Don't give up or get discouraged, just keep going. My friend is laughing all the way to the bank... and by the way, this only happened to her last month. This isn't an old story... also, she didn't price the book at .99 cents to do it. 

I asked her what her secret was and she just laughed and said, I have no clue. I've never sold 9k copies of one book in a month. I think I'll be needing pointers from her from now on.


----------



## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I finished my first novel in 2003. 

Between 2003 and 2009, I wrote eight novels, all of which were summarily rejected by everyone I sent them to. 

I got form letter rejections or no responses. I never got a request for a partial. I never got one of those personalized rejections. Nothing like that.

In 2009, I self-published.

I made $120 profit. For the YEAR.

In 2010, I kept putting out books. I made $400. For the YEAR. That's like $33 a month, or 13-ish sales per month. But there were lots of months when I didn't even make the threshold for Amazon to pay out. 

I don't know if I'm particularly stupid or particularly determined, but I just kept trying. 

In 2011, I made $18,000 from self-publishing. 

In 2012, I quit my day job.

All it takes is one lucky moment to push you from a bottom-feeder to a full-time writer. 

Never give up! Never surrender!

Cope however you can. Rage against the dying of the light. Throw tantrums. Get drunk. 

But keep writing. Always, always, always, keep writing

It took me about nine years from finishing that first novel to go full time. From what I understand, ten years is about typical for most writers from getting serious to going pro. And then there are about five years after that to sink or swim. It ain't easy. Some people get lucky and do it much quicker than that. For others, it takes much longer. (It's not a sprint. It's not a marathon. It's a lifestyle.)

Good luck, everyone! You can DO IT!


----------



## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I keep my eyes on the future. This _will_ replace my current income. I only published my first novel Nov. 28, 2012 and I know that it takes at least two years of hard work to really see a return. Focusing on what we don't have will only discourage us and make it harder for us to get what we want. (I used to run a personal growth blog, I had to throw that in. It's so true, though!)

I spend time every day learning about the craft and/or the business. I keep writing and improving my writing. It appears to be working as last month and this (so far) are my best months yet. I was shocked when I randomly checked KDP to see 2 sales on 9/1. I wasn't promoting anything. I've got about 1.5 sales per day average this month which is awesome. Visible growth is encouraging. I don't compare myself to others, but compete with _myself_.


----------



## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

I remind myself why I'm doing it: for fun.  I never harbored any illusions that I'd become rich and famous, but I enjoy writing and hope that maybe a few people will like my stuff, too.

It's all about managing expectations.


----------



## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

I know I'm going to keep writing, no matter what, cause I'm crazy that way.

I have my fans who comment on my serial, so I know the world is loved.

And I keep myself aware that I'm playing the long game, that it might take five years (and five or more books) before I'm even starting to see traction, but I may as well not give up, because I've been going this long just on the love of the story, so what's a few more years?


----------



## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

valeriec80 said:


> All it takes is one lucky moment to push you from a bottom-feeder to a full-time writer.


Write more, write better, get lucky. That's pretty much my plan.

If your books are any good, there are readers who want to read them. It's just a matter of finding them, or them finding you.


----------



## Carolyn J. Rose Mystery Writer (Aug 10, 2010)

I think of this as connecting with readers, not making sales. That keeps me going. And really, what else would I be doing if I wasn't writing. I suck at knitting and I hate to cook.


----------



## T.C. Beckett (Aug 12, 2013)

Totally bookmarking this thread so I can come back later when I need encouragement!

I'm definitely one of those bottom feeders you talked about. I have a grand total of... zero sales.  Zero.  Feels pretty crappy and sometimes when I'm on these boards it makes me want to hide my face in shame (seriously, actually typing and confessing this was hard for me).  I knew from the beginning that three 99c short stories and one free one weren't going to make me much (if any) money, but it's still a little depressing.  How do I cope?  I just tell myself it's because of my lack of promotion, or maybe my presentation, and not because I'm a bad writer.  Someone would actually have to buy it and read it to think it was terrible.  I'm going to professional school right now, so I don't have any money to use for advertisements or beautiful covers, and you can only do so much free pushing.

In the meantime, I take what little free time I have between classwork, naps, and my daily dinner of ramen to write and try to improve.  I'll keep writing because I enjoy it and because I think I've got interesting stories to tell.  And hopefully when I'm out of school and have a high-paying job, I'll be able to put a little bit more effort and money into promoting my works.  There's a very small chance I'd ever make more money writing than I would in my future career, so it's not something I'll be able to do full time, but as long as the inspiration's there, I'll continue as an author.


----------



## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

TC - just went to grab a copy of Parasol because the cover intrigued me.  I got a sorry "We had a problem processing your order. If you don't receive your book, please call our customer service line at 1-866-321-8851" message.  Maybe that's why you aren't selling!  

I'll let you know whether I receive it or not when I get home to my kindle.


----------



## T.C. Beckett (Aug 12, 2013)

Oh gosh, don't pay for Parasol!  It's the shortest and it's free elsewhere!  I've been trying to get it free on Amazon for weeks!  Or maybe they're finally trying to change it and that's why it wouldn't process?  But if you'd like it, I have a bunch of links to other places where it's free.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

This thread is awesome.

It reminds me that only a year ago, I was one of those bottom feeders. I don't count myself as one anymore, having stepped up a small level. 

But, flashback to last year, and I couldn't even sell my books for 99c (I've since discovered that I'm one of those people who sells better at $6.99 than at 99c). Every now and then, I'd throw a hissy fit, make my books 99c, mention it everywhere and sell... 10. Yeah, I know, that's still double figures.

Then I did a number of things:

Re-did some covers to brand series.
Raised my prices.
Published longer works, notably, started taking series seriously
Took my books out of Select and enrolled them everywhere. My KWL sales took off on September 15 and have been--by my standards--awesome ever since.
For the first time this month, I have more sales in UK than US.

I just seem to be one of those writers who sells better outside Amazon, and better outside the US. You never know what sort of writer you'll be unless you enrol your books everywhere.


----------



## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> Never give up! Never surrender!


I love the Galaxy Quest reference!


----------



## Robert A Michael (Apr 30, 2012)

Much of what has been stated so far all hits home for me: 1)marathon, not a sprint, 2)keep writing, 3)find your audience/audience finds you, 4)engagement with readers, and 5)ten-year tenure (like the way it sounds--say it three times fast).

And I LOVE what Steve Vernon has to say on the issue. You make me smile, Steve, you Canadian, you! Thanks for the inspiration and I hope your upcoming promotions are successful. Happy promoting!

And, Kay, I read your blog, visited your website and am getting your book(s) for my daughter and/or wife for Christmas Eve (SHH, don't tell them!). The tradition in our house is books for Christmas (and often on birthdays as well). Kay, I loved your post. Thank you for the inspiration. I hope you have the time and energy to "catch up."

Success is not a promise. It is an achievement. Oddly enough, it can elude even writers with a massive back list.

I will continue to plug along, tapping out 1,300 to 2,000 words every day and editing until my eyes bleed. Eventually, I will be able to call that my full time job.


----------



## Tim McGregor (Apr 2, 2013)

Frank, I cope by not slagging fellow authors as _'bottom-feeders'_ for starters. We've all been new at this and have all been frustrated by the challenge. Remember this; the world doesn't care that you wrote a book. You have to make them care.

Get some perspective on the current biz. Going by your sig pics, you write short fic and novellas. That's a tough sell. Cut yourself some slack. The authors who appear to be doing well are putting out novels and series.

And to reiterate the sound advice at the beginning; write more and engage your readers. *Find your fanbase and cultivate it*.

We've all been there, man... staring at nothing no matter how many times we hit the refresh button. Keep your nose to the grindstone and push out the pages.


----------



## Desmond X. Torres (Mar 16, 2013)

I have a blog entry sort of about that I put up this late Spring and then I stopped thinking about it. 
Seriously.
When it comes to worrying about our sales I slap myself in the head and remind myself that it generally take a business at least 3-5 years to become consistently profitable and that's with 60-80 hour work weeks. 

I've been at this a year. 12 months. Period.
Then I tell myself that it took me 4 years to finish HS.
I got time. Yeah, I'm 55 and wish all the crap guys my age wish they did 30, 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. So what- I'm here now.

Being too stupid to quit is because I'm strong enough to stay focused on the job at hand and that's my writing 4K words a day. THAT I have control over.
The other stuff's there, yeah. But I'm too stupid to give it much thought.


----------



## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

I think the first most important step can be to decide if you're writing for yourself, or for others. Writing what you yourself want to is not always a good business decision, and if you want to be a full-time writer, that is what you should look at in the beginning. What's hot, what's not. What has a reasonable chance of making you a living wage as quick as you need.

People are always looking at it as an either/or question: write what you love/write what people want.

It's not an either or question. There is no law in the world that says you cannot write stuff that is popular and make a living, and then use that living to fund the things you really want to write. When it comes down to it, no matter if what you write isn't your first choice, you are still honing your skill, which will be of benefit to your other areas of writing.

You're gonna' get a lot more work out, and benefit, writing what you possibly don't love and then using that base to write what you do love, than working a nine to five and being too tired and drained to write what you want to.

I'm not saying you can't get the full-time deal writing what you love, I'm only saying it's slower (from what I've seen here and other places anyway as the general truth.)

The other old chestnut: Write what you know

This is also a bit strange in my view. It doesn't take a few minutes to search out facts or ask someone on a message board for information you need. Reading others books in the same genre you will be writing in is also research.

So in short, to crack a few eggs, it should be this (IMHO):

*Love what you write* - because if you say you love writing for the art of it, you technically should love everything you write anyway, or at least be resonably statisfied with what you have created.

and...

*Know what you write* (in other words, research it if you don't know it.)

If more writers followed those two points instead of thinking the same two cliches were holding true, they'd be making more money, much sooner. Personal choice I know... but decide if you are an artisan or a writer looking to make a living from doing something you love. That's the key (to get there faster, at least.)


----------



## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

Cope? _COPE_

C'mon. Coping's for wimps.


----------



## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

FrankZubek said:


> Okay- sorry- bottom feeders is a bit harsh but I wanted your attention. But I am shouting out to the indie authors here who, despite the hard work and the long hours of nursing your baby to being online and for sale, just can't get more than a few dozen sales a month--- if THAT!
> 
> Because I am there and I'm wondering how some of you manage to keep going in the face of such a huge brick wall staring you in the face every morning. And it's kind of disheartening to keep seeing others bragging ( rightfully so, too) about their own great sales each week/month.
> 
> Please share bits of survival wisdom because I need some. ( and embarrassed lurkers can peek in and jot down ideas as well)


So, whats the alternative to managing?


----------



## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Terrence OBrien said:


> So, whats the alternative to managing?


I suppose quitting is technically the alternative, but it doesn't work.


----------



## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

If I can sell one book at $4.99, that means I can buy one fair-trade, organic, locally made, espresso chunk, dark chocolate bar at the store. That is HARDLY bottom feeding! 

My question to the OP: if epublishing were non-existent, would you still keep writing? I would. Only, agents would keep rejecting me and I'd be a few more chocolate bars in the hole. Everything else is gravy.

Ten years of hard work and I'm sure I can match the wages at my crappy day job. That means, before I'm 40, I can 100% do what I love and eat chocolate bars whenever I want... from home.

P.S. Chocolate is an excellent coping strategy.


----------



## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

First off- thanks so much to everyone who is taking the thread ( and being called a bottom feeder)
so well. I kind of thought up the title on the fly. I also wrote it in the middle of a bad period. ( And yeah- I know we all have individual bad periods in life but heres mine

Over Labor Day we had the sewage pipe back up in our apartment ( I live on the first floor). 

It would seem they used different building material in the 60s and over time roots break through the material and clog the pipe. The pipe has been cleaned of the roots and yet I'm still waiting for various contractors to come in and do their thing- after they handle customers who were already in line before me.

This required us grabbing a motel while they tore up the laundry room wall and furnace and hot water heater and clean up and sanitizing process and meantime we sit and wait it out in a motel where the wifi is iffy at best.

I am writing during this event between some sleep and the day job but its stressful. So one day I checked the  brown bar of Hell and found just one thoughtful soul somewhere in the UK bought one of the stories. Which is cool, of course. And yet not enough to supplement the bill I face next month ( Guess what? A sewer problem isn't covered in Ohio unless you pay extra). And yesterday we learned we need to replace a 40 yr old furnace too. So there's THAT. Plus if we file a claim the monthly rates go up. So there's that too.

And no I didn't reveal that for sympathy sales...... it's to make up to the few of you insulted by the name bottom feeders. This place is a nice little refuge for me- as it is for all of us- away from life. You're my family and I thank you all for tolerating me ( the way families tend to do). 

Kind of late to change the thread header now. So, thanks for understanding.


----------



## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

And yes, I have chosen a tough niche to mine in this indie field. Short stories and novellas.
Working on a new one as we speak.
BUt my inspiration is Richard Babcock's story, My Wife's Story. Great writing and it's only 14 pages long for 99 cents. You'd think- who'd tolerate a 14 page story let alone pay a dollar for it? Well, over time, he has done well for himself. Almost 90 really good reviews and only 20 bad ones and it sits at # 42 in fiction.

So, a shout out to you Richard, wherever you may be. My Wife's Story keeps me going.

Mr. Konrath is a big lighthouse beacon on the writing ocean waters. I'm reading his newest, Grandma? and it's inspired me to try something similar. 

So, good luck to you all.
And NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!


----------



## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

FrankZubek said:


> I am writing during this event between some sleep and the day job but its stressful. So one day I checked the brown bar of Hell and found just one thoughtful soul somewhere in the UK bought one of the stories. Which is cool, of course. And yet not enough to supplement the bill I face next month ( Guess what? A sewer problem isn't covered in Ohio unless you pay extra).


That's because Ohio sucks (unless you're an insurance company). I live in Akron, btw.


----------



## 60865 (Jun 11, 2012)

daringnovelist said:


> I suppose quitting is technically the alternative, but it doesn't work.


Yep, a bit like dying young is the alternative to not aging ...
Not a good choice and I missed that boat anyway.


----------



## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Don't consider myself a bottom feeder, but how do I cope?

I do something that helps me remember the _fun _of writing. I try something different, something I've never done before. I try a new genre. I try a new form of writing ... screenplays, for instance, or poetry. I do something I've never done before, like working with another author. I write and submit stories to anthologies, something until recently I hadn't done in years.

And occasionally I come up with silly post for my blog, or here at KB.


----------



## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

I cope awesomely well, because I'm not a bottom feeder. I'm a learner and experimenter. While I mess about with genres and styles, I'm building a killer back-list over a year or two


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

CEMartin2 said:


> I think of it like a lottery ticket... If i give up now, I definitely won't be successful. When that doesn't work, I remind myself I haven't gotten any bad reviews- what few I've gotten were good. So I keep plugging away. It's all about luck anyways. And you never know when you'll get lucky and your books will take off.


Hey CEMartin, I just clicked on one of your covers as I was intregued and it said it's publication date was 25 December! That is some dedication on your part! Did you really spend Christmas day loading up your book?


----------



## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

tkkenyon said:


> I heard what Sherrilyn Kenyon went through on Writing Excuses a few years ago. Here's the text of a speech that she gave to RWA.
> 
> http://www.sherrilynkenyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/-rwa%20luncheon%20speech%20delivered.pdf
> 
> Seriously, go read that puppy.


Powerful stuff. Thank you for sharing that.


----------



## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

Robert A Michael said:


> And, Kay, I read your blog, visited your website and am getting your book(s) for my daughter and/or wife for Christmas Eve (SHH, don't tell them!). The tradition in our house is books for Christmas (and often on birthdays as well). Kay, I loved your post. Thank you for the inspiration. I hope you have the time and energy to "catch up."


What a nice surprise to happen upon this morning! Thank you so much, Robert. I'm honored.

(and I promise your secret is safe with me)


----------



## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

T. K., thanks for that link. What an inspiring story. I never knew any of that about her, though many of the things she's gone through resonate with me and my life. I teared up as well.

As to the OP:  what are those of us who are below the bottom feeders? Muck eaters? Anyway, I get your point, and I don't think you meant anything bad by putting the thread title like that.

Like was said earlier, the only alternative is to quit, or to write but never publish/submit. That's what I've done for years, in between the low points of my life that I couldn't write. I had one of those just recently, but I got a lot of encouragement and so I soldier on.

I just started writing again two days ago. I'd read about A. C. Crispin's passing, and was just in tears over it. She wasn't that much older than me, and I got to thinking about what my life was going to be like in eight years, when I would be her age. I couldn't bear the thought of looking back and regretting more lost years of writing.

I may never sell a book. I hope I do, hope I can make enough money to live on -- if not well, at least decently -- but most of all I hope people will read my stories and get something, no matter how small, out of them.

Never give up. Never surrender.

Never stop learning. Never stop writing.


----------



## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

I had to think about this question for a while. Last night I had no answer, but this morning it hit me. Hanging out on Kboards a lot *IS* how I cope. I'm very susceptible to the "if they can do it, I can do it too" feeling. I have lots of bad days, but when it feels impossible to make any headway, the stories from the successful authors here are what keep me going. That and good reviews. They convince me that my writing is good. That's not the problem. The problem is just getting noticed in the huge number of books out there. Just, I say, as if that's trivial. It's anything but trivial. But my confidence in myself as a writer is shored up again every few weeks when a new good review shows up. But during the slumps in between Kboards is what keeps me going.


----------



## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

tkkenyon said:


> I heard what Sherrilyn Kenyon went through on Writing Excuses a few years ago. Here's the text of a speech that she gave to RWA.
> 
> http://www.sherrilynkenyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/-rwa%20luncheon%20speech%20delivered.pdf
> 
> ...


Thanks for this! Absolutely perfect...


----------



## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

Eeuw, a sewage pipe back up - how gross!  

My life has been a living hell (hmm, will that get thru the censors?) for about the past 6 years or so. All I'll say is that when you have to deal with mental illness (not your own) it turns everything you've known upside down.

How can I not write? It's a form of therapy for me. The times I've stopped writing in the past...were like torture for me. I always came back - always - because it's something I have to do. I'm in this for the long haul, whatever that means. I just spent a little dough on some pre-made covers for the first in my series and will re-launch them at some point soon.

And I just got out the first book in a new series. I'll probably get pre-mades for that series, too. I've also become more proactive where my blurbs are concerned; only time will tell if they work better than what I had before. (For the first series, this is about the 4th or 5th time I've rewritten it.)

Anyway, the good thing about this whole indie thing is that I completely control everything, which is great for a personal control freak like me.  And I don't have to hit the ball out of the park right away, like in a trad setting. It might take a while before my personal life settles down, but at least I know I can turn to my writing - and nice boards like this - to keep me going.

And I like the chocolate idea.  I might have to put that into practice.


----------



## MT Berlyn (Mar 27, 2012)

The Sherrilyn Kenyon speech was an affecting read...on more than one level. Thank you for sharing that link,TK.

Bottom feeder might be a little harsh...bottom dweller, perhaps, or having sunk like a stone. I never deluded myself with outrageous expectations, but at times only fair to partly cloudy ones when it came to this publication venture. Adversity used to fuel the fire, so to speak, but now I stare at files that could be uploaded in some vague form of mental paralysis and wonder what that's all about?

Just breathe. Just write. That's how I cope. I need to add _just upload_, but so far it's not working. I imagine it will, though, in some unsuspecting hour.


----------



## Dan Fiorella (Oct 14, 2012)

Coping?

Well, denial plays a huge role.  And frankly, a less then full understanding of up I'm up to.

But, right now I feel like I'm archiving a lot of stories I've wanted to tell and putting them somewhere that someday someone will want to read.  Maybe.  So, if it happens, it happens.


----------



## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

Steve Vernon said:


> Brothers and sisters we are publishing freaking kowabunga e-books - tiny wonderful immortal bundles of raw data that CANNOT BE KILLED.
> 
> Sure, you may be on the bottom today. But that doesn't mean you have to stay there. Roll your pennies and collect your bottles and sell your baby sister for a couple of brand new nifty covers. Plan that next big promotion - with about three more promotions after it. Write a new book - or three new books - each one of them and advertisement and a potential life line for those books of yours that are inspecting the be-barnacled belly of the Titanic.
> 
> ...


LOVE this! Kowabunga e-books makes me smile!


----------



## Joseph J Bailey (Jun 28, 2013)

I remember that the vast majority of net primary productivity in any given ecosystem moves through the bottom feeders... oh, wait that's another subject... but it applies nonetheless.

I love writing.

I do what I love.


----------



## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

To be honest, for most of us, we've not long set out on this journey.  We've done the equivalent of take our first few steps up the side of a mountain.  There's no point in clenching our fists and wailing, "I'm not at the top!!!!"  Of course we're not at the top, we've only just started climbing!


----------



## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

tkkenyon said:


> I heard what Sherrilyn Kenyon went through on Writing Excuses a few years ago. Here's the text of a speech that she gave to RWA.
> 
> http://www.sherrilynkenyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/-rwa%20luncheon%20speech%20delivered.pdf
> 
> Seriously, go read that puppy.


Damn, I'm a man, and I that article made me . . . never mind. Just an piece of sand in my eyes.

That's some writing.


----------



## xoxo (Sep 6, 2013)

TK,

Thanks for linking to that speech. It was both horrible and inspiring. That's one tough lady, I'm so happy she made it.
I should read her story every time I feel like complaining


----------



## Scott Daniel (Feb 1, 2011)

I would be a liar if I said I didn't want more sales. Sure, the money would be nice, but the validation as a writer is more important to me. I want to be a good writer above all else.

Knowing I'm not there yet as a writer, and knowing that I have very limited time in my everyday life to reach that mountain top is my biggest frustration. I cope better some days than others.


----------



## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

My very best book sells the poorest...sometimes less than ten copies per month, so I get the frustration!

Keep writing more, and more, and more.  Not only will you improve as you continue to practice, but eventually one will be the book that strikes the right chord with the largest number of readers, for whatever mysterious reason, and then you'll have all those other books just waiting to find their audiences.


----------



## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

"All you bottom feeders out there- how do you cope?"

Lots and lots of algae.


----------



## chrisstevenson (Aug 10, 2012)

Make no mistake about it--Bottom Feeder fits my bill accurately. I can't for the life of me understand why my paranormal romance/thriller has done so poorly, even with a revision, title and cover change. Cheap price too. It's a backlist, so the editing was good--nothing spectacular. 
It's called The War Gate, and if anybody Googles it, can you tell me if that cover art sucks or what. The cover was donated so I didn't look that gift horse in the mouth. 

chris


----------



## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

chrisstevenson said:


> Make no mistake about it--Bottom Feeder fits my bill accurately. I can't for the life of me understand why my paranormal romance/thriller has done so poorly, even with a revision, title and cover change. Cheap price too. It's a backlist, so the editing was good--nothing spectacular.
> It's called The War Gate, and if anybody Googles it, can you tell me if that cover art sucks or what. The cover was donated so I didn't look that gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> chris


The problem is the cover doesn't say paranormal romance AT ALL. If you look at the top sellers in paranormal romance, you'll see what sells. I can guarantee you it would make a huge difference if you had a couple on the cover.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

chrisstevenson said:


> Make no mistake about it--Bottom Feeder fits my bill accurately. I can't for the life of me understand why my paranormal romance/thriller has done so poorly, even with a revision, title and cover change. Cheap price too. It's a backlist, so the editing was good--nothing spectacular.
> It's called The War Gate, and if anybody Googles it, can you tell me if that cover art sucks or what. The cover was donated so I didn't look that gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> chris


Your title and cover do not say paranormal romance.
They both scream I AM A SPY NOVEL to me.
My husband saw Sci-fi.


----------



## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

chrisstevenson said:


> Make no mistake about it--Bottom Feeder fits my bill accurately. I can't for the life of me understand why my paranormal romance/thriller has done so poorly, even with a revision, title and cover change. Cheap price too. It's a backlist, so the editing was good--nothing spectacular.
> It's called The War Gate, and if anybody Googles it, can you tell me if that cover art sucks or what. The cover was donated so I didn't look that gift horse in the mouth.
> 
> chris


I happened across your book a while back and thought it was sci-fi or maybe steampunk. Then I read the blurb and thought it was horror. Some rebranding might do wonders for you.


----------



## journeymama (May 30, 2011)

I love reading and I love writing. I think I'm inspired by the fact that the people who are really successful are those with a lot of books out, so I'll keep writing away. I'm also very inspired by responses from readers. Those keep me going when numbers aren't high.


----------



## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> Your title and cover do not say paranormal romance.
> They both scream I AM A SPY NOVEL to me.
> My husband saw Sci-fi.


I saw SF, and if you told me it wasn't that, my second-guess would be that it was something along the lines of _The DaVinci Code_.


----------

