# Quitting Indie Publishing



## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

I will never self-publish again. It's not for me. Currently seeking a publisher for my WIP. Hello, query letters, months of waiting for a reply, and numerous rejection letters. Why? The satisfaction of being an indie has waned. For me, there's got to be more than starring at numbers on KDP that really do not tell the true story. It bothers me that an exceptionally small numbers of readers who purchase my e-books actually read them. I write primarily to be read. I'm not a businessman, nor do I care to be one. Ten years ago my dream was to find a publisher. A novel I was particular fond of was rejected by my agent, so I self-published it and then got sidetracked with e-books. Honestly, anyone can self-publish. There's some teenagers in Wattpad who are putting out good works, a few who will become great indie writers. Not everyone can land a publisher. Not sure if I can or will, but am ready and willing to pursue the dream again. To those writers here who published traditionally and turned to self-publishing, you got to admit the joy and satisfaction reached upon initially hearing the news someone wants to buy your work. I want that, I've always wanted that, and I've yet to get it. To be honest, I was lousy as an indie publisher: poor covers, weak blurbs, and a total unwillingness to promote. And even though I consider myself one helluva writer, the fact my books would have been even better with the assistance of a good editor always nagged me. Another issue, which I'm reluctant to broach, is race. It is what it is. Put an African American on your cover, and if it does not fall under the category of African American Romance, it will more than likely tank, quickly, with a loud thud. I wish all of you--a great group of people--the best of luck. JH


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Wow. And I haven't even started indie publishing anything yet.

All I know is that indie publishing requires bulldog determination, rhino skin, owl wit, gazelle intensity, and lots of chocolate coffee creampuffs cake -- oh, not sure what that last ingredient is.

I think Hugh Howey has the Secret Ingredient of Self-Publishing:









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483191345776/


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)




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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

It isn't for everyone. If you don't enjoy the business end of it, then it probably isn't worth doing.

All the best!


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

If you don't want to be a businessman, then by all means, pursue a trad deal. Not everyone wants to run their own business and that's just as valid a choice as indie publishing. BUT chances are that you WILL have to do your own marketing with trad. In fact, most publishers ask about your website, number of twitter/facebook followers and how large your newsletter list is before they make an offer. So unless you're the less than 1% that gets everything done for you, marketing is still a big part of your job. 

Good luck!


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

JH, I wish you every success on your new journey. The good thing is that self-publishing will still be here, should you ever wish to return.

Good luck!


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

JanThompson said:


> I think Hugh Howey has the Secret Ingredient of Self-Publishing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! All that and more. Indie publishing is HARD. And I would totally put an expletive in front of that if Betsy wouldn't break out her whip. I love this quote from A League of Their Own. _"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great."_

I love indie publishing, and I honestly think it's something people can succeed at if you do certain things, but something else I've really learned over the past year is that it's not for everyone. I put out 8 titles a year and I work 14-16 hour days. I'm the CEO of a multimillion dollar corporation. And that's not a position that every individual is going to be comfortable in. So if you know these things about yourself before you start then there's nothing wrong with sticking with what you're comfortable with. Every writer's path is going to be different. There's no right way.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

JH - wishing you all the luck in the world!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

JH,
I wish you the best of luck in your career.    The problem is not your covers or your blurbs.   It is your choice of football teams to root for.    Sorry had to get that in.
Good luck in your endeavors and I do have two of your books on my TBR list.


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## johnlmonk (Jul 24, 2013)

Good luck man


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Good luck, and I hope it works out for you.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Sorry to see you go, dude. Good luck!


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

Good luck! I hope you get exactly the deal you're looking for.


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## Samuel Peralta (Dec 31, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/93/60/31/9360316ef66c356d010e2862ab3ef38e.jpg[/img]
> http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483191345776/


What Jan said.

Having said that, best of luck with your new projects!


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Best of luck to you. Sincerely hope it works out.


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## 58907 (Apr 3, 2012)

jhendereson said:


> Another issue, which I'm reluctant to broach, is race. It is what it is. Put an African American on your cover, and if it does not fall under the category of African American Romance, it will more than likely tank, quickly, with a loud thud.


That's funny; I dove into indie publishing because of this very reason just applied to Christian publishing. You have a black hero/heroine, good luck getting the majority of the demographic who reads Christian romance to buy your book--if you can even get it on the shelves at the Christian bookstore. And that's what an agent told me.

Now the more general, romance reading public--that's a different (and more positive) story. 

Hope you land the deal that you want and then return to indie publishing!


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## gonedark (May 30, 2013)

Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Sera Elizabeth Darkley said:


> You have to follow your dreams. If your dream is to find a publishing house for your book, do everything in your power to make it come true. You only have one life to live. Don't let anyone tell you how to live it. Best of luck to you!


This. Seriously, this.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I wish you all the best, good luck and pound out those query letters!

Self-publishing is hard, and not for everyone, but you tried and that counts for a lot. So many people never try to obtain their goals. And as much as we'd like it to be otherwise, there is still an ethnic barrier in the world, so I understand that frustration.


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## zzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2011)

Good luck.


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## Carol Davis (Dec 9, 2013)

You absolutely have to make the choice that's right for YOU.  Wishing you much good luck!


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

It isn't for everyone. I've been at this for over three years, and only now am I starting to see some modest sales. Also, genre is a big deal in indie publishing. We don't talk about it much, but it's something I believe is true. If you're not writing in a popular genre, things get rough. There are plenty of people making money doing this. However, they work damned hard. I can blame my lack of success on my own laziness, but I've changed that lately. 

But yes, it's like Dean W. Smith says - "Think like a publisher". 

Again, it's good that you came to this decision on your own. Though I don't think you're going to find things that much easier if you do land trad deal. You're still going to need to watch out for your own interests. Also, these days publishers do very little promotional work for authors. They expect you to do it all, and than includes social media stuff. 

Wishing you all the luck and success in the world.


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## Key (Jan 6, 2014)

I think you should do what makes you happy!  Best wishes for the future.  But if the cover art and blurb and edits were your only issues, you could always ask for help with these and / or hire help!    I hope you will have a great time with whatever you do.  And it's totally not fair that race can still be an issue.


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## Lisa Scott (Apr 4, 2011)

Good luck and keep writing.  People still land traditional deals every day.  I hope it happens for you soon.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

There's no right way or wrong way, and indie publishing is lots of work. Best wishes toward reaching your dream.


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## Wired (Jan 10, 2014)

Key said:


> I think you should do what makes you happy!


Agreed.


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## dianasg (Jan 8, 2010)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> There's no right way or wrong way, and indie publishing is lots of work. Best wishes toward reaching your dream.


This.

I think this thread is actually really important, so thank you for sharing your experience. Along with the benefits of self-pub, comes a ton of work - not everyone will want to do things this way, and that's a-OK. Of course, publishing/making a living as a writer is always an uphill battle. We do it because we love it!  Good luck!


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Everyone else is being all nice and supportive and stuff, but...



jhendereson said:


> For me, there's got to be more than starring at numbers on KDP that really do not tell the true story. It bothers me that an exceptionally small numbers of readers who purchase my e-books actually read them.


What.

Where did you get this information? How do you know this? More importantly, what makes you think people who buy your published ebook are reading it anymore than your independent one?



> Another issue, which I'm reluctant to broach, is race. It is what it is. Put an African American on your cover, and if it does not fall under the category of African American Romance, it will more than likely tank, quickly, with a loud thud.


I'm not sure if you yourself are black or not, but as a black guy who has dealt with marketing stooges for a long time, good freaking luck dodging the racism a the gates to trad pub. It's not even that they don't like us, it's that they don't think we're 'marketable' unless we're writing specifically about being black. If you somehow managed o have this problem as an indie... brace for impact.


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## B.T. Narro (May 30, 2013)

I understand your frustrations. I'm terrible at marketing. Figuring out the title and the cover of a book is frustrating. Writing blurbs takes forever and is no fun at all. Self publishing can be expensive, risky, and exposing. I wish I could just write everyday and then click a button when the book's done.

Good luck!


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## Dee Ernst (Jan 10, 2011)

Best of luck to you.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

jhendereson said:


> To those writers here who published traditionally and turned to self-publishing, you got to admit the joy and satisfaction reached upon initially hearing the news someone wants to buy your work. I want that, I've always wanted that, and I've yet to get it.


I've been on both sides, and in the middle. I started out being published traditionally. I became an editor. Then I became an indie. There's not a chance in the world that I'll go back. You're right, though... indie publishing involves a WHOLE lot more than writing. Writing is actually just one step. To be successful, you probably have to want to be involved in all the steps.

I truly wish you the best of luck, and I hope you land a deal that fulfills your dream.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

It's incredibly hard on both sides of the coin. I can tell you, in all sincerity, that the work doesn't stop when you land an agent...that's really the beginning. Every story is different, every experience varies. It's a give and take. 

The truth is: This IS NOT an easy industry and I wish you all the luck in the world.


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## jaredspub (Jan 28, 2014)

Bummer. It's hard but finding a publisher will only be harder.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

I wish you all the best!  

Just thinking about working with agents again and waiting while a book goes on sub gives me the black chatters.  That was most definitely not the path for me.  I love that both kinds of writers have options nowadays.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Good luck in your quest.

As others have already said -- this business, and it is definitely a business, isn't for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

AshMP said:


> It's incredibly hard on both sides of the coin. I can tell you, in all sincerity, that the work doesn't stop when you land an agent...that's really the beginning.


And today it isn't like it used to be years ago. It seems that most agents and reps these days don't want to work, either. It used to be that agents would get out and hustle for their clients, now most of them just want to collect their cut and the leave all the promotional responsibilities to the writers.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

jhendereson said:


> I will never self-publish again. It's not for me. Currently seeking a publisher for my WIP. Hello, query letters, months of waiting for a reply, and numerous rejection letters. Why? The satisfaction of being an indie has waned. For me, there's got to be more than starring at numbers on KDP that really do not tell the true story. It bothers me that an exceptionally small numbers of readers who purchase my e-books actually read them. I write primarily to be read. I'm not a businessman, nor do I care to be one. Ten years ago my dream was to find a publisher. A novel I was particular fond of was rejected by my agent, so I self-published it and then got sidetracked with e-books. Honestly, anyone can self-publish. There's some teenagers in Wattpad who are putting out good works, a few who will become great indie writers. Not everyone can land a publisher. Not sure if I can or will, but am ready and willing to pursue the dream again. To those writers here who published traditionally and turned to self-publishing, you got to admit the joy and satisfaction reached upon initially hearing the news someone wants to buy your work. I want that, I've always wanted that, and I've yet to get it. To be honest, I was lousy as an indie publisher: poor covers, weak blurbs, and a total unwillingness to promote. And even though I consider myself one helluva writer, the fact my books would have been even better with the assistance of a good editor always nagged me. Another issue, which I'm reluctant to broach, is race. It is what it is. Put an African American on your cover, and if it does not fall under the category of African American Romance, it will more than likely tank, quickly, with a loud thud. I wish all of you--a great group of people--the best of luck. JH


I'm a proud African-American, and I rarely pull out the race card. However, in this case, you've got a point.

My first indie book, _Benton, Volume One_, has white characters. Volume Two includes a major black character. But if he were to appear on the cover, I'd stick a white character next to him. LOL! If I put only a black face on one of my covers, folks would assume my target audience is Africans Africans. It is what it is. I want all races to read my books, not just African Americans.

~~

As far as ditching the indie life, I don't know whether this is just a "sound off" or if you really mean it. I know when I'm ready to ditch something, I just ditch it and go. So hopefully, this is just an opportunity for you to gripe a bit. If so, stick with it. The grass is always greener. The traditional route has many of the same problems the indie route has.

Remember that.

Jolie


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## Steve W. (Feb 23, 2011)

I wish you lots of success! Follow your dream whatever path it takes you on. Keep us posted about your progress!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

I sincerely hope you find what you're looking for. As EL said, it's tough on both sides of the coin. She's right. And some of the problems you mention in indie publishing are in trad as well. But if you're not happy in indie, then that is the way to go. So I hope you get yourself a great contract and sell lots of books ad skate right by the possible problems.


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks for all the kind responses. Don't feel as if I'm quitting anything, but simply going in another direction. As many of you have said, being an indie ain't easy. So true. My books, I sincerely believe, would fare better under the umbrella of a publisher, big or small. IMO, collaboration is a good thing. A few months ago I worked with a narrator, Alyson Krupshaw, on an ACX production. Her professionalism and expertise drove home the fact that a good story often involves more than a good writer. Notice in many published books there's a slew of collaborators listed. In my books there's just one person involved:
James Henderson. Editor. Writer. Cover designer. Not necessarily a bad thing in doing it all myself. But I know for a fact each book could have been better written, better presented, with professional assistance. I'm not ashamed of this. It's simply true. Thus I seek a publisher.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

KVictoriaChase said:


> That's funny; I dove into indie publishing because of this very reason just applied to Christian publishing. You have a black hero/heroine, good luck getting the majority of the demographic who reads Christian romance to buy your book--if you can even get it on the shelves at the Christian bookstore. And that's what an agent told me.
> 
> Now the more general, romance reading public--that's a different (and more positive) story.
> 
> Hope you land the deal that you want and then return to indie publishing!


I'm like you but I don't write Christian romance. I use street language reflective of an urban environment and was told that I couldn't use words if I want to appeal to the mainstream.


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## Nova_Implosion (Jul 20, 2012)

I totally understand what you're going through, James. When you have an editor. publisher, or agent, at the very least you have somebody in your corner who has a financial stake in your selling as many books as possible. Getting an editor, publisher, or agent however...

Indie publishing has a lot of downsides, _especially_ when your work isn't in a popular genre like zombie fiction, erotica, vampires, etc., or falls into a niche genre that traditionally gets overlooked by the masses. Believe me, I know the frustration.

The good news is, contrary to what you might hear, traditional publishing isn't a dying industry. I hope you get your foot in the door,


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Best of luck  Indie writers are, at heart, entrepreneurs. That's not for everyone, and it has nothing to do with how well you write. If you don't have the desire to arrange production (covers, formatting, editing, etc.) or to do promotion and marketing, it's hard to be successful running your own business. At any rate, I do wish you success 

Edit to add: I feel compelled to add, as you've mentioned it twice, if not three times, that you don't have to do everything yourself just because you're an indie. You said you felt your books would be better with an editor or a cover or whatnot--indies can and do hire professionals to do the non-writer stuff every day. And I know you probably realize that, but still, I wanted to mention it. Getting a publisher isn't the only way to have polished books.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Good luck on your new path!

I just wanted to add that being an indie is very much a collaboration. I work with beta readers, an editor, two proofreaders, a cover designer, graphic artists, formatter, etc. I can't even think of one indie that advocates doing everything yourself.


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## Cappy (Sep 6, 2011)

Vicky Foxx said:


> Also, genre is a big deal in indie publishing. We don't talk about it much, but it's something I believe is true.


That's true, you don't see many writers of literary fiction being successful indies. You probably still need a publisher to get you into the review pages to do that.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I wish you all the very best and luck, but I would also wish you to reconsider.

Read some of the posts here again. The ones where trad authors go hybrid would be  best. I believe THIS should be your goal if you do not want to be indie. I say this because I just read a thread where an ex trad author told us about her deal where the publisher despite all kinds of promises sold only 3700 books over a very extended period.

What difference does it make if you don't want to do the business side (and therefore don't--concentrate on the writing) and having a publisher doing the business for you (but badly, and therefore not worth the contract you sign) ?? Either way you don't make any money, the business doesn't get done, you don't sell books either way, yet you feel a satisfaction of being trad published? I don't understand that. I just don't.

Would it not be better to continue with the indie side? I haven't read your books, I don't know what they're about or even what genre. That's not my business but yours. I would say though that if you are not being read now, what makes you believe you will be read shackled into a trad deal even if you can get one? If you do get one, we know from the numbers you dislike that you will not be better off going trad, even if you sold the SAME numbers as you could as indie, which you won't.

Could this work for you? Write a new kind of book under a pen name and shop it around to publishers, but keep doing indie under another pen name? I don't want to see you go.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Joliedupre said:


> I'm a proud African-American, and I rarely pull out the race card. However, in this case, you've got a point.
> 
> My first indie book, _Benton, Volume One_, has white characters. Volume Two includes a major black character. But if he were to appear on the cover, I'd stick a white character next to him. LOL! If I put only a black face on one of my covers, folks would assume my target audience is Africans Africans. It is what it is. I want all races to read my books, not just African Americans.


Is this because you think black people don't read as much as white people, or is it that without a black person on the cover they won't? Is this America only?

What about British African Americans? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Every time I see someone say African American it rubs me wrong even though I'm a white stiff Brit! I have never considered NOT using a particular race in my books as characters, and wouldn't even think of it for a cover. I say to an artist I need three futuristic soldiers and a cat alien please. I don't say I need three *white/black* futuristic soldiers and a cat alien please! It would just never enter my head as something I NEED to consider. I mean, DO we need to consider that?


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

markecooper said:


> Is this because you think black people don't read as much as white people, or is it that without a black person on the cover they won't? Is this America only?
> 
> What about British African Americans? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Every time I see someone say African American it rubs me wrong even though I'm a white stiff Brit! I have never considered NOT using a particular race in my books as characters, and wouldn't even think of it for a cover. I say to an artist I need three futuristic soldiers and a cat alien please. I don't say I need three *white/black* futuristic soldiers and a cat alien please! It would just never enter my head as something I NEED to consider. I mean, DO we need to consider that?


But what do you get when you ask for three soldiers- three white soldiers? Does your cover artist automatically assume you mean white people? I don't really know what you mean by is it something you need to consider. You know what your character looks like in your mind, and that's how you would describe it to your cover artist. If I wanted a character on the cover and they were white with red hair and green eyes, that's how I would describe them. If the character was of middle-eastern appearance with black hair and brown eyes, that's how I would describe them. What do you mean, is it something you need to consider? You describe the character to your cover artist as you see them.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Kitten said:


> But what do you get when you ask for three soldiers- three white soldiers? Does your cover artist automatically assume you mean white people? I don't really know what you mean by is it something you need to consider. You know what your character looks like in your mind, and that's how you would describe it to your cover artist. If I wanted a character on the cover and they were white with red hair and green eyes, that's how I would describe them. If the character was of middle-eastern appearance with black hair and brown eyes, that's how I would describe them. What do you mean, is it something you need to consider? You describe the character to your cover artist as you see them.


I would ask for 3 soldiers, not one white guy one black guy and one white with red hair guy. I don't think the cover needs or should have a faithful representation of an exact scene in the book. I mean I used to, but branding and genre are more important now. What I was trying and failing to ask was whether we should consider the reader's own race and target covers for the readership that way? I automatically think no, but am I in the minority?


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Alan Petersen said:


> Good luck on your new path!
> 
> I just wanted to add that being an indie is very much a collaboration. I work with beta readers, an editor, two proofreaders, a cover designer, graphic artists, formatter, etc. I can't even think of one indie that advocates doing everything yourself.


I try to do as much as possible myself, but I suck at making covers. My first cover designer didn't produce the results I wanted. My current cover designer, Farah Evers, made the beautiful covers below. And it didn't cost me an arm and a leg. I also have twelve beta-readers, among them two editors who work on my manuscripts for free, because they know that I cannot afford their fee, but they want me to succeed and write more books.

The generosity within indie publishing is enormous, but I think you have to be able to put your pride and ego aside sometimes and ask for help. I sincerely think that if you think trade publishing will leave you to just concentrate on your writing, leaving all the heavy lifting to your publisher, you will deceive yourself. I've negotiated with publishers, but in the end I don't have enough clout to negotiate different terms to the contracts they offered me, or the sparse advances, so I turned to self-publishing to maintain control over my own destiny.

I wish you lots of luck with your change in direction and I hope you'll get better offers than I got.


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

I hear your pain and I wish you luck like everyone else.You should do whatever you feel is right for you and no one else can judge.

But one thing I would say, from my own experience as an indie it's doing all those other things (except the marketing since I really hate it and so don't bother with it), that has added to the journey. I really enjoy cover design. And while I'm really not crazy about editing I do believe it has served to make me a better writer.

Cheers, Greg.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

All the best!


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't you do both? They aren't mutually exclusive. 

Good luck and I wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

LilianaHart said:


> I'm the CEO of a multimillion dollar corporation. And that's not a position that every individual is going to be comfortable in.


Am I the only one who got a twinge of excitement at the thought of being in that position? Lead me to it!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

markecooper said:


> Is this because you think black people don't read as much as white people, or is it that without a black person on the cover they won't? Is this America only?


Whitewashing is a major problem in the media in this country. "White" is the default in America (and if people are being honest, almost all of Europe.) It's why people freaked out when Rue was played by a black actress in _Hunger Games_. Everyone assumed the character was white, despite the author's description of her. It's why every damn samurai movie set in Imperial Japan has a white guy as the lead. It's why _Avatar: The Last Airbender_ fans freaked out at all the white actors cast in important, but _originally non-white_, roles. The cultural assumption is still that if you want something to have universal appeal, the main characters have to "default" to white. Putting people of different ethnicity in the lead is considered "pandering" to "special interest groups." Black people go to see a movie with Brad Pitt, nobody says Brad Pitt has "cross over appeal." White people go to see a movie with Will Smith, it's because Will Smith has "cross over appeal" to mainstream (i.e. read "white") America.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Whitewashing is a major problem in the media in this country. "White" is the default in America (and if people are being honest, almost all of Europe.) It's why people freaked out when Rue was played by a black actress in _Hunger Games_. Everyone assumed the character was white, despite the author's description of her. It's why every d*mn samurai movie set in Imperial Japan has a white guy as the lead. It's why _Avatar: The Last Airbender_ fans freaked out at all the white actors cast in important, but _originally non-white_, roles. The cultural assumption is still that if you want something to have universal appeal, the main characters have to "default" to white. Putting people of different ethnicity in the lead is considered "pandering" to "special interest groups." Black people go to see a movie with Brad Pitt, nobody says Brad Pitt has "cross over appeal." White people go to see a movie with Will Smith, it's because Will Smith has "cross over appeal" to mainstream (i.e. read "white") America.


This times a billion. It's the same in Australia too.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

Hi James,



jhendereson said:


> It bothers me that an exceptionally small numbers of readers who purchase my e-books actually read them.


That embarrasses me. I confess that I've had one of your books ("Pernicious") on my Kindle for quite a while and haven't yet read it. Thanks for the reminder.

I understand all your points and agree with you, though. I think you've made the right decision _for you_, and have made it for good and appropriate and correct reasons.

And I wish you nothing but success with your change of direction!


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## 58907 (Apr 3, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Whitewashing is a major problem in the media in this country. "White" is the default in America (and if people are being honest, almost all of Europe.) It's why people freaked out when Rue was played by a black actress in _Hunger Games_. Everyone assumed the character was white, despite the author's description of her. It's why every d*mn samurai movie set in Imperial Japan has a white guy as the lead. It's why _Avatar: The Last Airbender_ fans freaked out at all the white actors cast in important, but _originally non-white_, roles. The cultural assumption is still that if you want something to have universal appeal, the main characters have to "default" to white. Putting people of different ethnicity in the lead is considered "pandering" to "special interest groups." Black people go to see a movie with Brad Pitt, nobody says Brad Pitt has "cross over appeal." White people go to see a movie with Will Smith, it's because Will Smith has "cross over appeal" to mainstream (i.e. read "white") America.


Yuuuuuppp! 
And I didn't remember Rue's race in the book, but I could never figure out why everyone was so up in arms. The actress did a marvelous job and she was just so darn cute. Who cares if she's got a bit more melanin in her skin? That was rhetorical... 

And jHendereson, MANY indies collaborate with others to put out their product. You don't have to go it alone. But in the traditional world, be prepared to have your title changed, your plot changed, the race of your characters changed(haha, really not funny, but I know an author who had to struggle to keep hers the way she wanted--and is still fighting), the cover to not be what you want, etc., etc. All of this might not happen to you, but at least in the indie world, you get final say on what you want(and hopefully it's good  ).


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Kitten said:


> This times a billion. It's the same in Australia too.


I can't say it's different in the UK because I don't know that it is in news/film media circles, but I just didn't think it applied to books. Funny how we can be blind in our field I suppose. When I write my characters I see them in my head and if they're Asian black white or a mix I just say that and carry on. Male female too. What fits the story gets my vote. covers though, i have changed a lot in my opinions. I'm going to switch out all my fantasy soon because although i like the art because they are from scenes within the book, they aren't branded or genre enough. they don't sell the book to readers looking for the "thing" they're used to wanting... sigh.


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## 58907 (Apr 3, 2012)

Moist_Tissue said:


> I'm like you but I don't write Christian romance. I use street language reflective of an urban environment and was told that I couldn't use words if I want to appeal to the mainstream.


I guess there's something to be said for appealing to your "target" audience. I'm writing more sweet(with zero faith undertones) romance to broaden my reach, then pray those readers don't mind reading my other books.  Except for one, they're not heavy on faith either--on purpose.

What I've noticed in the very few UK shows I've watched, is how "normal" interracial relationships are(not saying they aren't). America prime time seems to be pushing that aspect a bit more now. It may catch on to book covers...eventually.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Dean Crawford said:


> As a "hybrid" author who is both traditionally published and self-published, I thought I'd chime in on this. I wish you the very best of luck with your new endeavour, but I'd caution you that these days both sides of the coin are just as tough. I sympathise with your wish to not be involved with many of the aspects of self-publishing such as promotion and editing / cover design, but trust me, 99% of all trad-pubbed authors are required to self-promote. Even I do it, and my publishers have in the past assigned five-figure promotion budgets to my novels. It's the way things are now.
> 
> I'll offer my advice, which you can of course feel free to take or leave:
> 
> ...


All good advice, Dean. I really do think he should stay with us in indie. Look at the parts he's hating, and outsource them. Do the rest himself would be my advice.


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

Dean Crawford said:


> Go forward with your agent submissions, but keep your self-published titles where they are and take a good long think about what's working and what isn't. It sounds like you're tired of the game due to lack of success, but that doesn't mean your books are no good. They do have an audience out there - you just have to make the effort to bring your title to them via sufficient visibility. Your covers are not strong, but they could be if you spent a little more time on them. Maybe there is an issue with your narrative - so address it. Such tasks often seem mountainous, but once you're stuck in they're rarely as bad as they seem.
> 
> Take your time. If writing and editing has become a chore then just do a bit here, a bit there, when you fancy it. Make it fun again. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Writing *HAS* to be fun. If it isn't fun to you in some respect then you're in the wrong game all together.
> 
> ...


+1 on all of this. I'm like the OP, in that I haven't seen much sales. (The flip side is that at least I've made SOME money, whereas if I left it on my hard drive, I wouldn't have gotten anything. ). But I feel like I'm starting to get going, get more serious, at least with my first series (having it edited; bought some premades to change out the covers).

I would say to the OP to be very careful on the trad side of things, especially when it comes to publishers' contracts. There's some nasty stuff in them nowadays.

All that said, I wish you well in your writing, whatever you decide to do.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

markecooper said:


> I don't think the cover needs or should have a faithful representation of an exact scene in the book.


Stepping away from the race issue here: god I hate this.

It annoys me to no end when a scene appears on the cover that doesn't appear in the book. It's blatant false advertising and I would wish that it was punished except as a general rule, traditional authors don't have any control over it and it's the fault of said marketing stooges.

Buuut, hearing an author who _does_ have control over it saying they don't care is making my teeth grind.

Dear everyone who uses scenes on covers: STOP LYING ABOUT YOUR CONTENT!


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

KVictoriaChase said:


> I guess there's something to be said for appealing to your "target" audience. I'm writing more sweet(with zero faith undertones) romance to broaden my reach, then pray those readers don't mind reading my other books.  Except for one, they're not heavy on faith either--on purpose.
> 
> What I've noticed in the very few UK shows I've watched, is how "normal" interracial relationships are(not saying they aren't). America prime time seems to be pushing that aspect a bit more now. It may catch on to book covers...eventually.


One of the first things that I noticed about Seattle was the normalcy of interracial couples. Not just BM/WW or WM/Asian Woman, but many BW/WM. It blew my mind coming from the midwest. It's so frequent that I stopped counting.

I wouldn't mind a co-op for minority indie writers as I feel there is still an insidious element in the publishing industry. I remember a black author who wrote a romance with a black heroine and the publisher told her that they would only take it if she made the character white (gotta appeal to mainstream, screw the fringe elements). I hope the OP has a better experience with trade publishing.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

Vaalingrade said:


> Dear everyone who uses scenes on covers: STOP LYING ABOUT YOUR CONTENT!


Well, I can't speak for Mark, but generally when I tell someone that a scene on the cover doesn't have to be an exact reflection of a scene in the book, I mean don't try to cram every...single...little...thing into the cover. Don't make the cover too busy. The cover of _The Doom Guardian_, for example, IS a scene from the book, right after Nadia just cut down a few dozen ghouls. But it is a stylized version of the scene where the focus is on her. I didn't ask the artist to include every single barrel, blade of grass, and bone fragment from the pile of destroyed ghouls. Or cram all of the other people in the scene into the cover art somehow. I just wanted the focus on Nadia at that moment where she had just finished destroying all of the ghouls. People try to cram too much into the cover and it just looks a mess.

But yes, don't put a scene on the cover that doesn't actually happen.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Sera Elizabeth Darkley said:


> If your dream is to find a publishing house for your book, do everything in your power to make it come true. You only have one life to live. Don't let anyone tell you how to live it. Best of luck to you!


Yep, this. Wholeheartedly this.

Wishing you all the best!


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Well, I can't speak for Mark, but generally when I tell someone that a scene on the cover doesn't have to be an exact reflection of a scene in the book, I mean don't try to cram every...single...little...thing into the cover. Don't make the cover too busy. The cover of _The Doom Guardian_, for example, IS a scene from the book, right after Nadia just cut down a few dozen ghouls. But it is a stylized version of the scene where the focus is on her. I didn't ask the artist to include every single barrel, blade of grass, and bone fragment from the pile of destroyed ghouls. Or cram all of the other people in the scene into the cover art somehow. I just wanted the focus on Nadia at that moment where she had just finished destroying all of the ghouls. People try to cram too much into the cover and it just looks a mess.
> 
> But yes, don't put a scene on the cover that doesn't actually happen.


I'm mostly concerned about characters who don't exist, characters who have been race-lifted to the point that they are unidentifiable, and most galling, powers and creatures on the cover that do not exist in the universe.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

markecooper said:


> Is this because you think black people don't read as much as white people, or is it that without a black person on the cover they won't? Is this America only?
> 
> What about British African Americans? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Every time I see someone say African American it rubs me wrong even though I'm a white stiff Brit! I have never considered NOT using a particular race in my books as characters, and wouldn't even think of it for a cover. I say to an artist I need three futuristic soldiers and a cat alien please. I don't say I need three *white/black* futuristic soldiers and a cat alien please! It would just never enter my head as something I NEED to consider. I mean, DO we need to consider that?


Your rant dives into the race card even more. So I'll avoid it, especially since it takes away from the core of JH's problem, which is the desire to leave indie publishing.

(Nice try, though.) 

~~~

JH, I do hope you stick with indie publishing. However, I do realize the costs involved.

For me to self-publish the way I want to costs me money. I pay for an editor, cover art, formatting, promotion, etc. (Some indie authors do everything themselves, but I would never go that route. To each his or her own, however.)

A traditional publisher takes care of the professional editor, formatting and the cover art, which saves an author a lot of money, but the author will still have to promote the book. As someone already mentioned, do you think your book would sell better with a traditional publisher? Most traditional publishers will only do so much when it comes to promotion. As I'm sure you're aware, you have to be a huge name or a huge seller to get all fancy promotional treats.

Jolie


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Best of luck to you.

Frankly, I doubt if you'll find trade publishing any easier than self-publishing, but if that's the way you want go, by all means you should.

If only because then you'll know for certain whether you were right or wrong. If you don't you'll always have that nagging what-if doubt.

I for one would be grateful if you would be so kind as to report back once and again how things are working out for you.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

We should frame Liliana's post.

Good luck with the trad route. That's no bed of roses either. Truthfully, it sounds like you didn't do most of the things that could have made a difference with indie success - a pro cover, pro editing, marketing 25% of your day and writing 75% - so it's not surprising that you didn't see any traction.

Books don't sell themselves.

The only thing I'll disabuse you of is the notion that if you secure a deal, that the publisher will sell your book for you. They won't. They might edit it competently, might do a great or a terrible cover you'll have no control over, and it will be spewed forth into the universe with the other 300,000 titles trad pub will put out in a given year. 

And then you'll be right back where you are now, which is, that if you want it to sell, it will be largely up to you.

That's reality. However, I can appreciate wanting to spend the next two-three years trying to get a deal, and if you get one, waiting forever to see the book actually release. But the bad news is once it does, you're a few years older, and you're going to discover that what I just described is how it works, and if it fails (odds overwhelmingly say it will), the publisher will view it as your fault, and will drop you.

This is not an easy biz no matter which route you choose. 

Sorry.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Best of luck to you. Trad publishing is not something that has ever held any interest for me. I'm excited about indie publishing, even though it does mean a lot of hard work and time. Although, trad publishing involves both. 

I hope you find what you're looking for.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Self/Indie publishing isn't for everyone. Self-employment too . Everyone has his path to follow.

Good luck!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Good luck! We all have to find our own path in this crazy business. I hope this one works better for you.


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## J.J. Thompson (Aug 10, 2013)

Best of luck on your new path! As someone said earlier, self-publishing will be here if you decide to give it another try.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

You know how much I loved _Baby Huey_.  

I'd like to invite you to submit to RAP.

Our acquisitions team makes the decisions, so I can't promise anything, but I do think you have tremendous talent. 

You can check out our Submission Guidelines here: http://redadeptpublishing.com/publishing-submission-guidelines/

We are currently taking two to three months on submissions.

Be sure to read our FAQ page: http://redadeptpublishing.com/publishing-faq/


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## Calvin Locke (Mar 6, 2012)

Good luck.

Quick question: Why do you think that the marketing efforts of traditional publishers will get more 'readers' as opposed to 'buyers' than indie publishing?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, 

I've removed a post that crossed the line of Forum Decorum, and a couple of posts that responded to it.

A reminder that no one is required to read or post in a thread; if a thread doesn't appeal to you, move on to another one.  Lots of threads.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

Lydniz said:


> Am I the only one who got a twinge of excitement at the thought of being in that position? Lead me to it!


I was VP of a billion dollar financial institution and had a six-figure salary. If you wanted my position, you could have had it any time during my last year on the job. I ended up in the hospital one night due to a stress-related ailment.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

jhendereson said:


> I will never self-publish again. It's not for me. Currently seeking a publisher for my WIP. Hello, query letters, months of waiting for a reply, and numerous rejection letters. Why? The satisfaction of being an indie has waned. For me, there's got to be more than starring at numbers on KDP that really do not tell the true story. It bothers me that an exceptionally small numbers of readers who purchase my e-books actually read them. I write primarily to be read. I'm not a businessman, nor do I care to be one. Ten years ago my dream was to find a publisher. A novel I was particular fond of was rejected by my agent, so I self-published it and then got sidetracked with e-books. Honestly, anyone can self-publish. There's some teenagers in Wattpad who are putting out good works, a few who will become great indie writers. Not everyone can land a publisher. Not sure if I can or will, but am ready and willing to pursue the dream again. To those writers here who published traditionally and turned to self-publishing, you got to admit the joy and satisfaction reached upon initially hearing the news someone wants to buy your work. I want that, I've always wanted that, and I've yet to get it. To be honest, I was lousy as an indie publisher: poor covers, weak blurbs, and a total unwillingness to promote. And even though I consider myself one helluva writer, the fact my books would have been even better with the assistance of a good editor always nagged me. Another issue, which I'm reluctant to broach, is race. It is what it is. Put an African American on your cover, and if it does not fall under the category of African American Romance, it will more than likely tank, quickly, with a loud thud. I wish all of you--a great group of people--the best of luck. JH


Best wishes, because everyone's on their own path.

Just a few thoughts (which may have already been mentioned, but I don't have time this morning to read the thread):

- You can indie publish with some books and go for a traditional publishing contract with other books - whether with the same name or different pen names.
- You can possibly write and publish an indie book that resonates with readers, and traditional contracts may come to you without you looking for them.
- Many trad books sink in their first month of release, and are barely read.
- It's true that anyone can self-publish. But not everyone can self-publish a book that others will want to read. Huge difference.
- Books that don't do well self-published may not do well trad published.
- There are great editors and cover designers out there.
- Not all successful indie writers spend much time promoting. Some spend the vast majority of their time writing and releasing books.
- African Americans on covers doesn't seem to happen that often with the trad covers I see? I see indie books trailblazing many different areas. I can't think of the name of a very popular YA urban fantasy series from an author here at KBoards (about angels and demons I think) but the series features both African Americans and whites on the covers. I think the more that indies show it can be done, the more things will change?

Hope you soon get the contract you're looking for


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## StarWriter (Jan 18, 2014)

Like writing, it's a labor of love and if you don't love it or get excited by it then it's probably not your cup of tea.

Best of luck.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Good luck, JH!

To anyone else looking for advice/opinion:

There are things that are easy about self-publishing, but there are many things that are difficult. If you want to self-publish, you have to remember there is a business side to writing that cannot be ignored. There are costs involved, things you must take care of because there is no one else to do it for you, editors must be found and paid, and the hardest of all: marketing and promoting your book so enough people see it and buy it in order for you to make a living. That takes a lot more time and energy than most people expect.

And after you've devoted all that energy into trying to get people to buy your book, it is crushing when you look at the reports and find you haven't sold one book in three weeks. That can really suck the life out of you, especially when the bills start arriving.

Lately, the news has been filled with reports on the success rates of independent writers over the past year. It's very easy to look at all the biggest successes and say, "That's where I want to be." But we can't ignore a large number that doesn't quite make it to that point—for any number of reasons. Sure, it might be the quality of writing, but it could also be a case of really bad timing for the book's release date. It is really hard to get that first book or two up to the point where sales ring in on a regular basis. There are a good number of writers out there who have good stories to tell and sell, but have  simply been missed for one reason or another.

One thing about self-punishing is it won't happen as fast as you wish it would.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

EelKat said:


> She just sat there flabbergasted...I wonder what she'd have said if I told her why the pink/blue/white stripe tranny flag is painting on my car?


I've found that most people outside of the QUILTBAG community don't know any of the flags other than the rainbow one.

I've had a bi flag on my desk wall for...six months now, no one has recognised it, and when told, they just go "oh, I thought it was just pretty colours".


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

jhendereson said:


> To be honest, I was lousy as an indie publisher: poor covers, weak blurbs, and a total unwillingness to promote.


I certainly don't want to talk you out of the walking the path you've chosen (and I wish you good luck in your endeavors), but it seems to me that you've identified a lot of your own problems in terms of covers, blurbs, etc. Unfortunately, books can't just be "pretty on the inside." It's probably worthwhile to think of your book as a girl who wants to be asked to the prom: she may have to get all dolled up in order to get Mr. Right's attention. However, she probably stands no chance if she hasn't showered in a week, never brushes her teeth and refuses to comb her hair.

In short, if you know those things are wrong, you need to get them fixed. If you can't do them yourself, then get professional help. If you had a toothache I'm pretty sure you wouldn't give yourself a root canal. Likewise, if you had a bad ticker you wouldn't give yourself open heart surgery. You'd seek out someone with the requisite expertise and get their assistance. The same is true in terms of your books.

Long story short, it doesn't appear to me that you've exhausted all available remedies. Nevertheless, you have a better understanding than I of what will make you happy, and if it's pursuing traditional publishing, then more power to you.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

As someone that is traditionally published I can say that there is nothing like hearing that someone wants to buy and distribute your work. It's a notch in the belt. I danced around my living room when I got the email accepting me for publication. Signing that contract was one of the coolest things I've ever done. 

I romanticize the idea of going indie, in truth, I'm not sure I ever will. I just want to write. I'm not sure I want to put the work into the marketing aspect. As long as I have someone willing to buy my stuff I may just keep handing them the reigns. 

I admire anyone that can find success in self publishing. It's not easy. It takes work. But, that's true for writing in general. Getting a contract isn't easy either, hell, in many ways I think it's harder. 

Point is, do what's right for you. I may just self publish my short stories and keep selling my novels to traditional publishers. At the end of the day, we all love to write. There's room for everyone.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

blakebooks said:


> We should frame Liliana's post.
> 
> Good luck with the trad route. That's no bed of roses either. Truthfully, it sounds like you didn't do most of the things that could have made a difference with indie success - a pro cover, pro editing, marketing 25% of your day and writing 75% - so it's not surprising that you didn't see any traction.
> 
> ...


It is tough either way, yes.

Granted, he may not wait two-three years to find a deal, and it may not take that long to get it out, especially if it's a small press. It took me about 6 months to find a deal and I was out about 4 months after that.

Some people don't want to market. I'm one of those people (for the time being at least). Yes, I'll send out small twitter alerts and interact with readers on facebook and through email, but, that's it. The interviews I've done and the write ups I've received have all been thanks to my publisher. Some people just want to write. I'm one of those people. I also have to admit, I've never experienced anything like the adrenaline dump I got from signing my first contract.

Different strokes for different folks.

You've come as close to mastering the art of self publishing as anyone I've ever seen and if I ever decide to go that route I hope I'm able to do it with half the competence.


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## Book Master (May 3, 2013)

It is hard to write, self publish and market also. As quite a few have mentioned on WC in the past, follow a 80/20, 75/25 or 70/30 guideline to writing and marketing.

Really, trying to tackle both ends at once is not only demanding, but can be stressful as well. For someone who has a good backlist of Titles written, they could possibly take a break from writing to pour 100 percent into marketing for awhile. As JV mentioned, it is "Different Strokes for different folks." ......one of my favorite lines 

However anyone decides to operate the writing, marketing gameplan, you just have to test the waters until you find the perfect formula that works. I completely agree with your stand on the direction you wish to go in the future. 

Good Luck and Sincerest Wishes,

BM


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## Kitty French (Dec 3, 2012)

LilianaHart said:


> Yes! All that and more. Indie publishing is HARD. And I would totally put an expletive in front of that if Betsy wouldn't break out her whip. I love this quote from A League of Their Own. _"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great."_
> 
> I love indie publishing, and I honestly think it's something people can succeed at if you do certain things, but something else I've really learned over the past year is that it's not for everyone. I put out 8 titles a year and I work 14-16 hour days. I'm the CEO of a multimillion dollar corporation. And that's not a position that every individual is going to be comfortable in. So if you know these things about yourself before you start then there's nothing wrong with sticking with what you're comfortable with. Every writer's path is going to be different. There's no right way.


Jeez, Liliana. I think I actually proper love you.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

scslawin said:


> I was VP of a billion dollar financial institution and had a six-figure salary. If you wanted my position, you could have had it any time during my last year on the job. I ended up in the hospital one night due to a stress-related ailment.


Was it your own company, though, or someone else's? I assume that makes a difference.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

EelKat said:


> Oh, I hear ya on the business side of things. It's a nightmare trying to do everything yourself. It can get so overwhelming at times. Self-pubing is definitely not for everybody, and if you'd rather write than do everything else, it can actually be bad for your stress levels and health. Marketing myself is a huge fail on my part, I just do not like to market at all. I love to write and I love to create covers. I don't like editing. I don't like marketing. There are still times when I send stuff out to publishers, but not as much anymore because I like having full control over my work/rights/etc, but at the same time there's always the ego in me saying I want to be able to say I was published by _*insert name of any big publisher here*_. It's perfectly understandable.
> 
> I see it as, every time I try something new, it's me removing a road block to greater things. If it works, great; if not, well at least I've shoved that log out of my path and I have a clearer view of what to do next. I think self-pubbing is one of those things, you never really know if you'll like it until you try it. If you try it and than discover it's not forr you, there's no shame in that at all. You can hold your head up proud and say: "I took a chance and tried it out, but it wasn't my thing and now I know. Now I can move on to something that fits me better."
> 
> ...


This times infinity! Your story is so inspiring!


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2014)

JVRoberts said:


> As someone that is traditionally published I can say that there is nothing like hearing that someone wants to buy and distribute your work. It's a notch in the belt. I danced around my living room when I got the email accepting me for publication. Signing that contract was one of the coolest things I've ever done.


Back in the day, Alyson Books used to be a major New York publisher for LGBT works. Years ago, I queried them about an anthology idea I had in mind. I got lucky. They responded and informed me they were interested in my book. I put the anthology together, submitted it, got my advance and went on a book tour to New York, Los Angeles, Austin/TX and more.

In later years, I signed on with some small publishers. Plus, I have short stories published in various anthologies.

Now, times have changed, and I'm ready for my indie life. (Indie publishing was looked down upon when I got into the fiction writing game.)

Perhaps if I had never been published by a publisher my feelings about self-publishing would be different. But, been there, done that.

Jolie


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

In 2002 I paid a vanity publisher 12g's to self-publish a poorly written self-help book titled Pimps, Players and Baby-layers. A lot of jack for a guy paid pennies a mile. My hope and dream in doing so was to lure a legit publisher. Didn't work. Failed miserably. Two cases of said title reside in a hall closet. A few years later I obtained an agent and she and I came pretty close to securing a publishing deal several times. Close but not close enough. I cannot express how passionately I wanted a publishing deal. In 2010 I self-published another book titled Baby Huey, for a lot less money, primarily because I didn't think a publisher would buy it, though I loved it. Amazon suggested I turn it into an e-book, which I did as an afterthought. A year or so later, here on KB, several authors, HP Mallory, Amanda Hockings and others, were securing publishing deals. Hope springs eternal. I'm not ashamed to say I had toes and fingers crossed hoping to get a nod, or even a wink. Didn't happen. The wave of indies flowing to the other side appears to have come and gone. From start to finish, in publishing, my ultimate goal was and still is to land a publishing deal. My dream. And we all know that dreams don't always come true. As for going hybrid, I'm not sure how it works, but wouldn't you have to get a publishing deal first? I admire indie writers, all writers. It's not easy work at all. However, I bristle at writers who intimate other writers may not have the right stuff to achieve their dreams. Again, good luck to everyone. And thanks for all the well wishes. Special thanks to you, Lynn, for the invitation; will be submitting real soon. JH


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## JaroldWilliams (Jan 9, 2014)

It seems to me that the issues about which you spoke will follow you into trad pub. The basics do not change. Having said that, I DO completely understand anyone not liking the business aspect of indie publishing. It is indeed not for everyone.

Best of luck to you, my friend.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

jhendereson said:


> It's not easy work at all. However, I bristle at writers who intimate other writers may not have the right stuff to achieve their dreams.


I don't think anyone was intimating that you (or anyone, for that matter) doesn't have what it takes to achieve their dream. Quite the contrary. I think they were looking at your dream, as you explained it, and giving you what dreamers always want least of all: The truth.

But, it _is_ the truth. Publishing, trade or self, is incredibly hard. There are things demanded of you in indie-land that aren't demanded of you in trade-land. There is a definite give and take that entice some or turns some off. But the work and things you have admitted to disliking won't stop because you land an agent or even a deal, it's then that work really just begins. The things you hate? Well, true enough, they'll continue to dog you. If a publishing house gives you XXXX for marketing, that doesn't excuse you from tweeting and pounding the virtual pavement on blog tours and self-promotion jags. You still do that, except now how well you do it matters because a publisher (any publisher) is going to hold you accountable for your actions or lack of actions. It can directly effect your next book, future deals and your reputation.

My agent? She wanted a list of blogs I know I can get on because I have a relationship with the bloggers, wanted a count of my twitter followers and facebook followers, wanted to know the ins and outs of my website and personal blog. She wanted to know how deep my social media presence was because gone are the days when a book could sell itself simply by showing up on shelves. Writers write books, and now we're expected to sell them by way of selling ourselves, too. Advocating for one's own self is a huge part of the business when you and a hundred others like you are fighting for visibility. It's not romantic, it's a business. The only difference between self and trade, when it comes to how loud you shout from the roof top about your book, is who you're answering to at the end of the day.

I read the sample of Baby Huey. It's great and you're a good story teller. I'd never say that unless I believed it ... but telling a great story isn't the only facet of the career, as much as we all wish it was, it's not the end all/be all when it comes to success or failure -- it wasn't when you were with your agent and if anything, in the years since then, I suspect it's all that much harder to stand on plot alone. I wish you the best, as I did before, and I hope all your ambitions become realities.


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