# Is reading on the Fire a pleasurable experience?



## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Well, I gave my wife her Kindle Touch this morning but it's turning out not to be so happy a Christmas.

I'm sure it's my fault -- I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to what she liked and thought, instead, that it was my own prejudices (I have an iPad and basically hate Kindle devices).  But apparently she shares my beliefs.  Her two biggest issues are the lack of backlight (we're both old and need as much help with reading as possible -- these "gray paper" devices are almost impossible to read indoors, which is where we spend out time reading, even with strong lighting) and the responsiveness (the "touch" to go to the next page is nowhere near as easy and flowing as even our iPhones, let alone my iPad).

So I'll return the Touch to Amazon for a refund, but I'm wondering if we should try the Fire next (since it would solve the backlight problem).  But if the responsiveness is worse it might not be worth the trouble (and I've heard folks complaining that it IS worse).  For those of you who have the Fire, do you find reading on it an issue?  Can you turn the pages well enough (fast enough, reliably enough) to make reading a pleasure?

BTW -- do any of you think that the contrast in the Kindle should be better?  My wife immediately brought me a "real" book and said "but the paper is white and the contrast is so much easier to read" and I have to agree.  I really didn't do my due diligence on this -- had I seen how dingy this thing was I never would have gotten it.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

My old eyes prefer the eInk Kindle to the Fire, but in answer to your question: If I'd never seen an eInk device I'd be very happy with the Fire.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

If you change the font to the sans serif it is much darker. I have the Touch and have no problem with the page turn. Also if you go to the Home page, select Menu, Settings and then Reading Options you can turn off the Page Refresh. That makes the page turn faster. Most do notice the page turn at first but you get so used to it. 

I find the backlight hurts my eyes when reading to long so the eink is much better for me. I bough the Lighted case for when I need more light.


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## Hadou (Jun 1, 2011)

It does well enough for plain reading, but eInk is easier to read on.  I like the Fire for things like magazines and other things that are image heavy.


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## Tripp (May 28, 2009)

I have a Kindle keyboard, an iPad and the Fire.  I dislike reading books on the iPad because it is large and cumbersome.  I thought I was an e-ink fan all the way, but when I got my Fire, I was really surprised that I liked reading books on it.  The proportions are better and is not cumbersome at all.  It is a little heavier, but has a good balance (unlike the iPad).  I did have to change the font to brown on sepia so the contrast wasn't too extreme for me.  And the touch response is great.  

From what you have said in your post, I think your wife will love it.  Let us know how it goes.


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## Sandra Edwards (May 10, 2010)

Keep in mind that, as with any DTB, an eInk device is going to need a source of light. I did look at a couple books on our new Fire and they weren't too bad, but I still prefer reading on my K3 (which has a built in light in the cover .

I'm sure your wife will love the new Fire!


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## kindlegrl81 (Jan 19, 2010)

If she has no problem reading on an iPad then she shouldn't have a problem reading on the Fire.  It is mainly the backlit screen that most people (including myself) find uncomfortable to read on.  That is why I mainly stick with magazines when reading on my iPad or Fire.

I will admit the touch screen on the Fire isn't as responsive as my iPad or iPhone but it isn't horrible IMO.  The only problem I have had with the page turns on the Fire is if my finger gets too close to the screen and I accidentally turn the page; sometimes I don't even have to touch the screen  .  I have had no problem with the pages not turning fast enough.


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## NightGoat (Feb 2, 2011)

If you and she are tickled with the iPad, why not just get her an iPad or stick with the iPad, whichever the case may be. Why bother with Kindle devices if you find them unsuitable to your needs.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

It did occur to me -- but there are several mitigating factors.

I'm a big, strong guy (I may be old, but I work out with weights three times a week :>). I have no issues even holding my iPad one handed for extended periods of time. But my wife is a petite lass, and I recognize that it's much more unwieldy for her.

Obviously it's a lot more money, as well, but even that wouldn't be a show stopper if all else was fine. Truth be told, I think what would be ideal for her would be if Apple makes the rumored 7" iPad (the Fire killer). That form factor is about right for book reading (but way too small for mag and comic reading, which is what I mostly do on my iPad).

Which brings up the last point - even if Apple doesn't choose to enter the 7" market, they are most certainly going to release the iPad 3 in the spring. Buying another iPad 2 right now would be foolish, to say the least.

So my choices are either to find a stopgap measure for her, or let her continue to read on the iPhone. But when I watch her, my heart goes out (the form factor for the phone ain't ideal for reading, either -- I do think the Kindle has this much right. Paperback size or slightly larger is just about ideal for reading books. Reading a book on the iPhone looks to be a prime candidate for hand cramps <g>).

Right now she's actually trying the Touch out, so perhaps she'll learn to at the very least tolerate the e-ink thingee until such time as far better alternatives will present themselves. In any case, we have a few more weeks before the Amazon return window will close (although I can fill out a return and then get almost another month before it has to go back). So we may yet try the Fire. But I do appreciate all the advice and thoughts here, even if at times reading those of you who can't abide by reading computer screens I sometimes feel as out of place here as a Mac person would in a Windows forum (as someone who has spent the greater portion of the last 35 years staring at a computer screen for a living, I really can't fathom why ANYONE would have a problem reading text on one. But that's just me...)


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

One reason I have is that I'm a computer 8 to 10 hours a day and my old eyes are already tired. I like the smaller eink device for pure reading. I like my iPad for doing what I'm doing right now using email and talking on Kindleboards. I also love my magazines on the iPad. I think that everyone is different and should choose what is most comfortable for reading. If she is reading on the iPhone she should do well with the Fire. Good luck with your decision.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

We were somewhat in the same boat. I read on my iPad regularly for a year, leaving my K2 to gather dust. I had hoped the Fire would be the solution. But the battery life is HORRID as far as I'm concerned, even compared to an iPhone, and that just wasn't acceptable to me. I also found it heavier than I expected (not all that comfortable for me for a one handed device, though others will disagree) and I really disliked the size ratio they went with--I'm sure it's great for widescreen movies, but I didn't like the way it looked for reading. It just wasn't for me, and I was really disappointed.

I went with the Touch. Yes, you need bright light to read by, but that's no different than a "real" book. I even finally found a book light that was acceptable to me for reading at night with it. But e-ink isn't for everyone. My husband despises it, for example. So perhaps the Fire is the best solution in your case.

As for the weight on the iPad, I don't get this argument, though I see it all the time. I'm a "petite lass" as well with the much heavier iPad 1, and I do the obvious thing--I prop it against something to read and use. I used a Wedge Pad for the last year. Now I use a Coyl Cushion (see the thread in our accessories forum) and LOVE it. It holds either the iPad or the Touch at a height that's comfortable for use, whether on my lap, a table, or the arm of the couch. And it puts no weight on my hands or wrists this way. Since the rumored iPad 3 is also rumoured to be thicker & heavier than the iPad 2 due to the requirements of the new screen, if a 7" version doesn't manifest, this is something you might want to consider.

I'll be interested to see what she decides--do let us know!


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## 2.5 (May 16, 2010)

"(I have an iPad and basically hate Kindle devices)."

Looks to me you already know what you/she wants, and it's not a kindle.

So go get it, why come here to bash the kindlel' oh I know. You hate kindles.


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## JetJammer (Jan 18, 2009)

While reading on the Fire isn't my first choice, it is actually much better than I expected.  The backlit screen works well even in the dark, and there are 3 "color" options which help quite a bit.  I've always hated reading on my IPad or my phone, the backlight is much harder on the eyes if you read for extended periods of time, but if she doesn't have an issue with that on the IPad she won't on the Fire.  

While the Fire is smaller than the IPad and easier to hold in one hand, but it is still much heavier than the Kindle, surprisingly so.  She'll definitely notice the weight after a while, but there are several cases and stand options out there.

As for responsiveness, I'm an incredibly fast reader and I have no problems at all with page turns.  Most of the complaints about lack of responsiveness are in the carousel, not inside books, and have been mostly corrected with the last update.

Like most electronic devices, it all comes down to personal preference, which is why there are so many choices out there.   The great part about Amazon is their return policy.  If she doesn't care for the Touch, let her try the Fire.  If she still doesn't like that, you can always send it back and wait for the rumored IPad small tablet. 

*I always forget they sell them in stores now!  Take her into BestBuy or whatever is closest and let her look at the Fire there.  They're demos only so can't get a good feel for reading, but you can at least try the size and weight before buying one.*


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

2.5 said:


> "(I have an iPad and basically hate Kindle devices)."
> 
> Looks to me you already know what you/she wants, and it's not a kindle.
> 
> So go get it, why come here to bash the kindlel' oh I know. You hate kindles.


This is a friendly forum and we welcome everyone regardless if they like or own a Kindle.


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## CrystalStarr (Jan 17, 2011)

The title of your post asks if reading on the fire is a pleasurable experience. You also mention your wife is petite. I am all of 100lbs. I own a Fire and soundless Touch. Unless I prop my Fire I find it too heavy for extended reading.  My hand fatigues quickly. The thing is pretty heavy. And then I also have to worry about the battery.

My Touch is SO comfortable!  Lightweight and comfy in 1 hand. Battery life seems almost never ending. And the eink screen is dazzling and so comfy on the eyes!  

Clearly my choice for reading is my Kindle Touch. I keep a book light or bedside lamp for evening use.


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## NotActive (Jan 24, 2011)

content


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

It is really bothering me the way some folks are replying in this thread especially today.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

I do continue to appreciate all the thoughtful input here -- thanks.

And no, I'm no troll.  I'm not a Kindle guy, for sure, but I thought I had explained pretty well why I didn't get my wife an iPad.  If I were just looking to be anti-Kindle, I wouldn't have bought one, trust me.  (And I certainly wouldn't be looking to get a Fire if I continued to feel that way).

Just like I have no problems with those of you who love your Kindles, I hope you don't hold it against me personally that I don't.  I honestly thought my wife would -- or if not love, at least be accepting.  And as I said, she hasn't ruled it out completely.  This morning she was just SO negative that I started scrambling for alternatives.

Just on the basis of this thread alone it appears that a personal reading device is... personal.  Some folks here, all Kindle folk, feel the Fire is a good reader, others feel not.  The reasons both for and against are sound -- it all goes to show just how much emotion we invest in such a reader.  I'm truly sorry if I've offended anyone, because that was not my intent.  I just want my wife to be as happy in her own choice as I am in mine (to be clear -- I let borrow my iPad for 10 days while she recently went visiting family and she did not fall in love with it as I have.  What she did mostly was watch a couple of movies.  So that test alone proved to me I should look elsewhere which is why I went with the Touch).


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## Tripp (May 28, 2009)

mkelley,

You are so correct, these personal devices are truly personal.  I am glad your wife is giving the Touch a test run to make sure.  If it isn't for her, then you can always give the Fire a test run.  That is what is so great about Amazon, they give 30 days, no questions asked.  And if the Fire is a no go, you get credit for being so thoughtful.  She is a lucky lady.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Mkelley,

First off, Welcome to KindleBoards!

Secondly, let me apologize for a couple of the posts made here.  I've removed at least one post as personal attacks are not allowed.  Thank you for not responding in kind--you are the kind of thoughtful poster we like here.

I hope you will keep coming around for help as you need it with the Touch or Fire if you go that route.  Please don't judge our membership at large by the negativity a couple expressed here.  We have members here with all kinds of readers.  Some have all of them.   I have an iPad, a Fire AND a Kindle. Well, three Kindles.  And an iPod Touch.

There's a separate board, Fire Talk, with info about the Fires.

Welcome again.

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

Thanks Betsy. We can always depend on you.



mkelley said:


> I do continue to appreciate all the thoughtful input here -- thanks.
> 
> And no, I'm no troll. I'm not a Kindle guy, for sure, but I thought I had explained pretty well why I didn't get my wife an iPad. If I were just looking to be anti-Kindle, I wouldn't have bought one, trust me. (And I certainly wouldn't be looking to get a Fire if I continued to feel that way).
> 
> ...


When my friend first got hers the page turn really bothered her and ask me if that was normal. I looked at hers and told mine did not do that. When I got home I went straight to mine and sure enough it did. I just didn't notice any longer. When I got my first Kindle I downloaded a book that I had wanted to read for a while and got so into the story that I didn't notice anything but the story. That is the advice that I have given to all of my friends that are now getting Kindles. Make sure to first read a book that they are really interested in. Once you have finished the first book you are hooked. There is a lot of information on the board and all questions are answered. Please don't let one or two people turn you away from a great group of people. Merry Christmas.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

LOL -- thanks, Kathy.  It kind of reminds me of the old joke about the folks showing off their apartment to friends when a train goes by 10 feet from their window and their friends ask "How can you live with that train going by every 10 minutes?" and they reply "What train?".

(And I mean that in the kindest possible way -- it's amazing what we can adapt to and notice or not depending on circumstances).

I'm hoping she does get used to it.  I never thought she would *ever* read a book on her iPhone (I specifically did not put any on there until she asked me to do so because I didn't think it was a practical ereader) and I find her doing so all the time, so she DOES surprise me.

I can't tell you how excited I was this morning for her... and so her extreme displeasure just floored me.  She is normally the most positive, thoughtful, wonderful woman on earth, and thus I was caught completely by surprise.  You would have thought I'd have bought her coal for Christmas (and, of course, afterwards she was embarrassed and sorry she made me feel bad, which made me feel worse, of course).

But we'll get there -- if she can't learn to love the Touch, we'll try the Fire (and after that, anything else we can figure out :>).


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Mkelly, you mentioned old eyes, and trouble reading indoors. Did you show your wife she can change the font size 8 different levels, and change the spacing between lines, and margin size, and font type? She can customize it to suit her needs almost perfectly. Back-lit reading really bothers my eyes after about 20 minutes, and I have better than 20/20 vision. I love reading on the unlit Kindle screens. I have had almost all of them. K1, 2, 3, mini-K, and Fire. (missing Touch and DX)


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## JetJammer (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh, and don't forget to send her to Kindleboards!  If the posts here don't convince her to love it, I'm sure the enablers can find something (many somethings probably...) she can't live without.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Welcome to Kindleboards, mkelley!

I think what Kathy says about reading a book you're really interested in is a very valid point. When I bought my first Kindle I too was disappointed at how grey the screen seemed - and the contrast was a lot worse on those older models too. I spent the first day or so looking at the Kindle itself, rather than concentrating on the book I'd chosen to read.

Then suddenly, I found myself immersed in the book, actually _reading_ and not just looking at the screen and all awareness of the device itself just fell away and I was hooked. So it's really important to take the time to give it a good try and not to make a knee-jerk decision. But, if your wife decides in the end it's really not for her, then I'm sure you'll find something else more suitable.

We have threads on here about all kinds of devices, not just Amazon ones, so be sure to send her here, whatever she ends up with!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

mkelley, it seems like you are considering just two choices -- the Touch and the Fire.  You know there are a couple of others, too, right?  

The basic Kindle ($79 or $109 depending on whether it's ad supported) is even lighter than the touch and has physical page turn buttons. . .extremely responsive.  It does NOT have a keyboard except for what you can pop up on screen and navigate with the directional controller.  But if it's mostly reading you're doing -- don't do word games or take a lot of notes -- it might be all you need.  It, too is the eInk screen which -- like a paper book, requires an external light source.  You can, however, buy a case from Amazon that has an integrated light that works pretty well.

There's also an eInk model that has a full physical keyboard.  Those not as enamoured of touch technology but who do like to take notes or do word games, find it superior. The screen is the same, it's just the input method that differs.

There are also available the older DX model which has a 9.7 inch screen . . . .my aunt loved hers because she had extremely bad eyes and needed to put the font up on one of the largest sizes available.  On the bigger screen that meant she got more than just a word or two on the page. 

I've had a Kindle of one sort or another since July of 2008. . .have at least used all the models. . . .I'd certainly suggest that anyone who is a big reader give them a try. . . .I have a Fire, too, which is a separate branch from the main family tree but also a nice device.  I am pleasantly surprised by how comfortable it is to read on. . . .you can adjust the brightness and color scheme to your liking and there are 8 typefaces to choose from. (regular eInk Kindles give you, at most, 3)  FWIW I find the responsiveness to be just fine.  I like using a stylus as it seems to me to be more precise for many tasks though not necessary for just turning pages.

I'd also note that not all eInk screens are created equal. . . .and, as you've noted, one's response to them is highly individualized.  I find the size adjustment available with the Kindle makes it superior to a book, even if the background isn't bright white. . . .by adjusting the line spacing and margin width, not to mention the font size and type . . . .I can read any book . . . .even the ones that are printed on paper with 8 pt. type because they're so long and the printer wanted to conserve paper!  For 'old eyes' that, to me, is huge.  With a good reading lamp -- I use the 'broad spectrum' or 'daylight' bulbs -- I have no trouble.  

Anyway, it does sound as if she's initially just not interested in eInk. . .I would suggest giving it a few days to really decide -- I've known others who were skeptical but when giving it an honest try find that it is exactly what they need.  You have, anyway, until the end of January to decide and still return it for a full refund (less return shipping).  Meanwhile, you might be able to try out a Fire and some store in your area -- they're carried at Best Buy, Staples, Target, and other places.  But, keep in mind, the lighting conditions in the store will not be the same as those in your house.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Last night after trying the Kindle in bed (one of the two three places she does most of her reading -- the other two are the dining room and her computer room) she switched back to the same physical book (I had gotten her the ebook of the one she was reading). I told her she needed to give it a chance, but I could see her heart wasn't in it.

When she was trying it out she kept moving the Kindle back and forth in the light (which is very strong by the bed -- I can't imagine having any more light than that) and just wasn't comfortable with it in any way, I could tell.

This morning, I found her in her computer room reading her iPhone again... very comfortably propped up against a pillow (because it's hard to hold for extended periods of time). I told her that same book was on the Kindle and she said "well, the Kindle was in the bedroom...".

So it's definitely the e-ink and it looks as if she really isn't going to get used to it. I don't doubt you folks when you say it's easier for you, but I have to admit my own (extremely limited) experience is the same as hers -- I would never want to read that way (but I read for many many hours on my iPad -- plus I was a programmer for over three decades and spent literally tens of thousands of hours reading on a computer screen. If anything, it feels more natural for me to read on a backlit screen than it does to even read a physical book).

I'm going to order the Fire today and we'll see how that works. AFAIK there aren't any other backlit eReaders out there (although I suppose the Fire per se isn't considered an ereader, and I guess if I put it in that class then almost any tablet, Android or Apple, could be considered one). I'm hoping the Kindle part of the experience is the same as it is on her "regular" Kindle, because I do like the collections and basic navigation, as well as the ability to adjust things (and, yes, we've played around with all kinds of settings to see if it makes a difference to her reading happiness -- remember, she's pretty used to the Kindle software having used it on my iPad and her iPhone).

She's not really the forum type (despite having a husband who runs two of his own -- on Florida retirement and animation, if you were interested :>) or I would have her come here and explain her concerns. Then again, she's pretty willful and knows what she wants, and I suspect no amount of conversation would convince her this e-ink thing was something she'll ever like <bg>.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I don't like the screen ratio personally. I find it too narrow in portrait and too wide in landscape for just reading text. I much prefer the 4:3 ratio of the regular Kindles or my iPad 2. 

Backlit screens don't bother me for reading though. I've been reading on my iPad 2 the past week as I decided to just take it and my laptop (needed to do some work) while traveling for the holidays, and left my K3 at home. 

At this point I'm not sure I'll buy another e-ink reader as I'm not a super avid reader and seldom read for more than an hour at a time. So a tablet gets a lot more usage for me as I can do all my reading on it as well as a host of other things.


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## melodyyyyy (Feb 11, 2009)

Mkelley

Good luck with whatever you decide .  I have the Nook color and have had every kindle ever made.  I do enjoy reading on the nook color.  Your wife will probally like the fire.  Good luck with your search and join us here even if you do not care for kindle.  I bet we can find something here for you to enjoy.  Check out our Apple forum.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

mkelley said:


> I'm going to order the Fire today and we'll see how that works. AFAIK there aren't any other backlit eReaders out there (although I suppose the Fire per se isn't considered an ereader, and I guess if I put it in that class then almost any tablet, Android or Apple, could be considered one). I'm hoping the Kindle part of the experience is the same as it is on her "regular" Kindle, because I do like the collections and basic navigation, as well as the ability to adjust things (and, yes, we've played around with all kinds of settings to see if it makes a difference to her reading happiness -- remember, she's pretty used to the Kindle software having used it on my iPad and her iPhone).
> 
> She's not really the forum type (despite having a husband who runs two of his own -- on Florida retirement and animation, if you were interested :>) or I would have her come here and explain her concerns. Then again, she's pretty willful and knows what she wants, and I suspect no amount of conversation would convince her this e-ink thing was something she'll ever like <bg>.


It does sound like she's just not happy with the eInk. . .depending on how the light falls, there can be a small glare problem. . .I don't have a problem with shifting the kindle the slight amount needed to remove that, but it sounds like it's an annoyance to her that can't be fixed. 

B&N also has an ereader that is backlit. . .both the Nook Color, priced the same as the Fire and the Nook Tablet about $50 more for the same features as the Fire. Of course, they're not Amazon devices so you have to play some possible 'against TOS' games to get the Kindle app running on either one so as to use Kindle books. There are also other 7" tablets available, most cost more than the Fire but some have a 3G connection you buy via your cell phone carrier which might make them somewhat more versitile. And there's rumor of Apple releasing a 7" screen iThing sometime in the Spring.

The Fire software is not exactly the same as the Kindle App for iPad etc. . . .collections are not enabled, for example. But once you select a book the navigation within the title is basically the same. . .you just have to get used to the differences between android and iOS as to how things work.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

No collections?  Yipes -- that might be a deal breaker right there.

ALL of her books are collections -- some 30 books long -- and there is no way she could manage that without the ability to group them (which is the big reason I was thinking of getting her an eReader in the first place, since her iPhone running Kindle can't do collections either).

I don't really care if it's Kindle or not -- all of our books are in Calibre and I can output to nearly any ebook format.  But I do need collections, and I do need an ability to transfer our books to whatever device we use (and I do need the software to adjust fonts and/or background to make reading better).

I'll look at the Nook offerings (although I suspect they don't allow the ease of return Amazon does).  This is getting more and more depressing the more I try.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I understand the recently updated iPad Kindle App has enabled collections; it's possible the iPod/iPhone one is updated too.  They're also available via Kindle for PC and I suspect also on Kindle for Mac.  I use the Kindle for PC to keep things collected and organized and then only download the books I'm reading or plan to read soon to the device(s).  Different devices get different books.

Remember the Fire is, essentially, a first generation device. . .there have already been several updates to improve performance and usability and I've no doubt more will come.  And the second generation device may be available this time next year.  But, as has been said, not every device is for everyone.  I would STRONGLY encourage that you check them out at a physical store before going through the trouble to order since it seems you might just be returning it. 

I would caution that books purchased from Amazon or B&N that have DRM -- copy protection -- can not be legitimately converted to some other ebook format.  It's against the Terms of Service you agreed to when you purchased the 'book' -- really, a license to use it which is not transferable.  I don't use Calibre myself, but my understanding is that it won't work if there is DRM present.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

No, the iPad Kindle app still doesn't have collections (which is why I switched to Stanza, which overall is actually a much better eBook app).

I found an Android app that looks perfect (it's called Aldiko) but because it's not an Amazon store app (I don't think -- it's freeware) I'm not sure I can load it up on the Fire.  I'm going through the threads and doing web research to see.  If I could that would be perfect.

All our books are in Calibre and thus non-DRM, so that's no issue (I can output them in almost any format, including ePub and Mobi).


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

mkelley said:


> No, the iPad Kindle app still doesn't have collections (which is why I switched to Stanza, which overall is actually a much better eBook app).
> 
> I found an Android app that looks perfect (it's called Aldiko) but because it's not an Amazon store app (I don't think -- it's freeware) I'm not sure I can load it up on the Fire. I'm going through the threads and doing web research to see. If I could that would be perfect.
> 
> All our books are in Calibre and thus non-DRM, so that's no issue (I can output them in almost any format, including ePub and Mobi).


You can enable loading of apps from 'unknown sources' on the Fire. . .there are a lot of threads in the Fire Talk board about how to do so.

There are also file manager apps which would assist with sorting stuff.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Right -- I found a web site that explains in detail the (relatively) easy process of loading non-Amazon apps in. So I think I'm set (my only concern now is how much hassle it will be to get to the app and/or stay there, since that's probably the only thing she'll use. I'm hoping if you turn off the Fire it comes right back up where you left off, no matter what app you're in).

And I do appreciate all the help you and nearly everyone else here has been. If it's been trying for all of you, try to imagine how it is for me, when all I want is just to make my wife's reading eBooks pleasurable. I know she'll love it, eventually (heck, she spends hours reading on her iPhone, despite the hand cramps she's getting -- she shakes her hand out periodically like a dog shedding water :>). I get this right and she may be set for a long time (well, at least until if and when Apple ever releases a 7" tablet <bg>).


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## bwbollom (Jul 30, 2010)

Sandra Edwards said:


> Keep in mind that, as with any DTB, an eInk device is going to need a source of light. I did look at a couple books on our new Fire and they weren't too bad, but I still prefer reading on my K3 (which has a built in light in the cover .
> 
> I'm sure your wife will love the new Fire!


This is what I think too...KFire isn't bad for reading. It's what you'll expect if you're used to reading on an iPhone / iPad. But I much prefer eInk screens for books...just doesn't strain my eyes at all. My new Christmas Fire is really cool, but I can already tell that I'm not giving up my K3! The Fire will be for magazine / newspaper type stuff, video, etc. and the K3 will remain my primary eBook reader.

As for the other question about responsiveness...I haven't used a KTouch, but the Fire seems very responsive with the little bit of book reading I tried on it. You tap the side of the page and it turns to the next. Seemed to work without any problems.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

mkelley said:


> Right -- I found a web site that explains in detail the (relatively) easy process of loading non-Amazon apps in. So I think I'm set (my only concern now is how much hassle it will be to get to the app and/or stay there, since that's probably the only thing she'll use. I'm hoping if you turn off the Fire it comes right back up where you left off, no matter what app you're in).


It does, more or less. . .though if you want to keep things synced up it's best to close the book and go home. But if you're mostly not buying from Amazon that wouldn't be something you could do anyway. At the least, you can set the Aldiko app as a favorite so it is always on the home screen and easy to find.



> And I do appreciate all the help you and nearly everyone else here has been. If it's been trying for all of you, try to imagine how it is for me, when all I want is just to make my wife's reading eBooks pleasurable. I know she'll love it, eventually (heck, she spends hours reading on her iPhone, despite the hand cramps she's getting -- she shakes her hand out periodically like a dog shedding water :>). I get this right and she may be set for a long time (well, at least until if and when Apple ever releases a 7" tablet <bg>).


No problem. . . .but I hope YOU understand that your initial post did come across as a bit confrontational. .. .subsequent posts have made it clear that's not what you intended at all, of course. 

But we do pride ourselves on being a welcoming and friendly place so again, apologies, for those who did not show the "KindleBoards" spirit.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Everybody, really, has been very nice here. I'm sorry if I sounded anything other than polite, because I was seeking help and you don't get much help if you are adversarial.

I suspect it was just my wife's extreme reaction that threw me off -- here I was thinking how wonderful it would be and when it wasn't I was dumbfounded. So sorry if I wasn't as articulate about the issue as I might (usually?) have been.

I'm feeling much more optimistic now, though, and she *seems* to be looking forward to the Fire, which would help (she never thought we'd ever get any Kindle type device, despite using the software on her phone and my iPad, because one time, a fairly long time ago, I had expressed negative thoughts about a friend's Kindle. Should have kept my mouth shut there as well, I guess <g>).

Thanks for putting up with me, though.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

mkelley said:


> And I do appreciate all the help you and nearly everyone else here has been. If it's been trying for all of you, try to imagine how it is for me, when all I want is just to make my wife's reading eBooks pleasurable. I know she'll love it, eventually (heck, she spends hours reading on her iPhone, despite the hand cramps she's getting -- she shakes her hand out periodically like a dog shedding water :>). I get this right and she may be set for a long time (well, at least until if and when Apple ever releases a 7" tablet <bg>).


Go to accessories and order her a CoyCushion to prop it on. It is wonderful for holding any reader she will wind up with while reading. See we are already enabling you.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Cool -- I will do just that (her birthday is in 30 days or so, and I'm all out of ideas after this anyway. Not only out of ideas, but out of money <g>).


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## acellis (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks, Kathy. Some very good advice.


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## EllenR (Mar 31, 2009)

mkelley, see my reply on another thread regarding collections. I suspect there is a misunderstanding about that part. Books that are published as collections are just fine on the Fire.

I have both a K2 and a Fire. I love reading on my Fire so much that I have abandoned my K2 (the e-ink Kindle). I never thought it would happen! If your wife likes the high contrast of pages, she might prefer the Fire for reading. It is bright like my husband's iPad and I find it very easy to read on as I am usually reading in a dimmed light.

Hope that helps!


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Um, I don't see the CoyCushion anywhere?  Even a direct web search did not reveal it.  Am I spelling it incorrectly?

And I did answer you on the other thread, but when I saw collections I mean groupings of books, like Harry Potter (only with sexy friendly vampires).  These things have upwards of 30 books in each one, and if she can't group them she'll never find her away around them.  The Kindle app for the iPad can't, and apparently neither can the Fire.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

It is here on Kindleboards. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,73719.0.html

She will custom make whatever type, color or size you want. I have one and love it.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Alice's actual website is http://coylscustomcreations.com/ You may want to get one for your iPad too. I bought one for my DH's birthday and he loves it. (sometimes he uses it as a pillow for himself instead of his iPad.)


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm a fan of both Kindles and tablets.

I have to say tho, I am very happy with the reading experience on my Kindle3. For *long periods* of reading that is what suits me.

I love the soft e-ink reading environment and I LOVE the weight....so thin and light. I keep going to the stores and picking up ALL the Kindles, Nooks, tablets, etc and hands-down, the ergonomics of the Kindles is my favorite.

I am also kind of spoiled because I have a very light cover for mine...but also enjoy reading it coverless and have the Simple Light which uses the Kindle battery for power and is also very lightweight and solves any lighting issues (which I do understand completely).

So for reading for long periods...a true luxury I know!...I'd go with one of the Kindle e-readers.


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## hamerfan (Apr 24, 2011)

Kathy said:


> If you change the font to the sans serif it is much darker.


I've been using my K3 for almost a year now and never knew this. Thanks, Kathy!
Best of luck in whatever you decide, mkelley.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

hamerfan said:


> I've been using my K3 for almost a year now and never knew this. Thanks, Kathy!
> Best of luck in whatever you decide, mkelley.


 Welcome. It is a much darker font and helps me a lot.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

hamerfan said:


> Best of luck in whatever you decide, mkelley.


I need all the luck I can get (because it isn't so much what *I* decide, as what my wife does :>).

I think the Fire will work just fine (we'll know for sure by the end of the week).


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

Yeah!  I think it will be a perfect.


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## CAR (Aug 1, 2010)

"BTW -- do any of you think that the contrast in the Kindle should be better?  My wife immediately brought me a "real" book and said "but the paper is white and the contrast is so much easier to read" and I have to agree.  I really didn't do my due diligence on this -- had I seen how dingy this thing was I never would have gotten it."

I don't get this at all,  you seem to be a very smart post writer, but e-ink readers have been around for a long time.  And this very subject has been talked about so much, that if you do any research at all, you would have days of reading .  In my case I was the exact opposite, I had stopped reading paperbacks because of poor print and paper quality. That's one of the reasons I love the Kindle, its perfect (to me) print quality on every book I read.  What ever it is you end up with, I wish you the best.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

Actually, it was *because* of all the reading I did that I felt e-ink would be okay.

Nearly everything I read (even here) says "oh, it's SO much better than LCD" (even you :>). So I was just convinced. The one and only time I ever saw one we were in a friend's house, it was a living room (not ideal lighting conditions) and while I thought it was hard to see I just felt that, under better lighting, it would be just fine.

So, yes, I was very surprised when it wasn't. If I had read about people having trouble reading with the Kindle it would have raised lots of red flags, but all of you are saying just the opposite. I guess maybe I needed to go somewhere other than a Kindle forum, though <g> -- kind of like going to Macworld and asking them if a Mac was *really* what I ought to be getting versus a PC.

Except... Amazon has muddied the waters because now there is a Kindle that *isn't* an e-ink reader, so that's why I came here asking about the Fire. I didn't come here to knock e-ink, only mention the problem and hope that Fire owners here would tell me what I needed to know.

Now, I have to say that last night when I picked up her Touch and held it under a light it looked just fine to me, so fine that I was thinking to myself perhaps I'd keep it just in case I want something lighter than my iPad. And then I moved *just* slightly... and couldn't read it at all. It was eerie, but as long as I was perfectly positioned under a light I thought the text was superb, but even the slightest movement one way or the other and it nearly disappeared to these old eyes.

So I thought, well, a book light would solve that, wouldn't it? Except it's still one more thing to turn on, keep charged (or supplied with batteries) and even that might not be even enough light for me. So... for me it's pretty obvious I'm never going to be an e-ink sort of guy. That, however, wasn't the issue I came here for. I honestly thought my wife would, or I'd have *never* gone to the effort of trying to make her a happy Christmas with it. It just turned out she feels just as strongly as I do on the issue.

But all is well (hopefully) -- by tomorrow the Fire will be here, we'll return the Touch (no harm, no foul, no money lost -- I love that all you have to do with Amazon is say it "doesn't work" and they even supply shipping charges) and all of you who love e-ink please don't be offended that we don't.

(My wife last night got on the Amazon site to read about the Fire, and was telling ME things about it -- "Hey, I can play movies on this!" in an excited way, so it's making me very happy. The fact she never got that excited about my iPad is a little off-putting, but that's okay).


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

Yeah! I'm glad she is excited. It is always such a pleasure when we make our loved ones happy. I can't wait to hear how she likes the Fire. Be sure to let us know.


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## CAR (Aug 1, 2010)

Well I hope your wife likes the Fire, I know I love mine.  For reading I still use the Kindle most of the time, but my Readers Digest looks fantastic on the Fire


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

CAR said:


> Well I hope your wife likes the Fire, I know I love mine. For reading I still use the Kindle most of the time, but my Readers Digest looks fantastic on the Fire


So true about RD on the Fire. I have had the subscription for my K3 for long time now, but I just tried the free trial through the app on the Fire and once I figured out the controls I was very happy with it. I'll have to cancel the one for my K3 still. Don't really need it twice. 
But fiction books are all read on my K3, I read only a few times on my Fire in bed. It would be more enjoyable if the brightness could be turned down even more. E ink is just so much more easy on my bad, old and tired eyes.


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## sparklemotion (Jan 13, 2011)

I seem to be in the minority, but I love reading on my fire. I find it to be a total pleasure. Mkelley - Like your wife, I am not crazy about the contrast on e-ink and find it to be very gray. I own a kindle keyboard and while I do really like it, and use it for all my outdoor reading, I do find comparing it to the page in a book inaccurate, it's just not. It's darker. I understand the comparison to some extent, but contrast wise it's very different. I still love my e-ink kindle for reading in the sun and bright light, it can't be beat for that, but I do wish the backing was whiter.

An iPad would be too big to read on for my personal taste. I love the touch factor with the fire too, I find the touch screen very intuitive. It also does not tire my eyes at all, I can read on it for hours with no issue at all. (I know some people complain backlit screens for reading bother them, not at all the case for me.)  I really wanted to get a kindle touch as well, for reading outside, but it doesn't have landscape mode so that was a deal breaker for me. As for now, I'm doing most of my reading on my fire and loving it. I'm glad your wife seems excited, it's a great little device, I hope she enjoys it.


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

I just wished that before you returned the Touch, that you had tried the Amazon lighted cover. You don't need batteries, & the light is very bright. I hope your wife loves her Fire. As someone has already said, please let us know if she likes it. I hope so.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

CAR said:


> In my case I was the exact opposite, I had stopped reading paperbacks because of poor print and paper quality.


Yeah, mass market paper backs are generally on crummy paper and have pretty lousy contrast due to the grayish paper and often blurry print.

But a nice hardcover or trade paperback with nice white pages and crisp text still has much better contrast than e-ink. Personally I'm fine giving that up for hte convenience of e-books. But I can see how others would prefer a quality print book still.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

We still have the Touch -- no enormous rush and a friend of ours (with a Kindle) is coming over Friday with her light so we will get a chance to see.

I doubt if it will make much of a difference to my wife, who is an LCD kind of gal. Again, no wish to get into any arguments here, as this e-ink versus LCD seems sort of religious in nature (with the hazards of any such kind of discussions) but for me there would be no question. I've spent the greater portion of my adult life (at least 30 years) staring into LCDs (and CRTs!) for 8 or more hours a day without any problems at all. My eyes don't get tired, not nearly the same way they get tired when reading a book (the real kind) and the answer, to me, is obvious -- the light REALLY helps. It doesn't matter how much light I have on a book (and thus, by extension, on the Kindle) -- I just can see the lit screen so much better there is no comparison.

Indeed, now that I do a lot of reading on my iPad I find I can't read a paper book anymore -- the background doesn't contrast enough (because, let's face it, no matter how much light you have the paper is never really white, but at least a light beige or perhaps eggshell white if we were into decorating <g>). So reading a Kindle is just out of the question no matter how much light I could get on it.

Again -- that's me and not the real purpose of my quest here (because I already have what I want). My wife surprised me with her equally strong feelings on the subject, but perhaps when she sees the Kindle light and the Fire and can compare them side by side she'll change her mind. I've given up trying to predict what my wife will and won't like anymore <bg>.

I also note that it seems a lot of you (most of you?) read outside and I've no doubt that would be trying if not impossible on an LCD device. We live in Florida, and when we are outside it is to recreate, not to read, so perhaps that plays a part as well. Again, I bear no ill will towards anyone who likes the e-Ink -- our best friend (the one coming over Friday) is a Kindle fanatic and we love her.


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## fuschiahedgehog (Feb 23, 2010)

Our children love reading on their Fires, even better than on the "old" K2s they had.  I prefer my K4, mainly because it is so much lighter than the Fires.  I have RA which makes holding the heavier Fire painful for longer periods of time.


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## JetJammer (Jan 18, 2009)

mkelley said:


> Now, I have to say that last night when I picked up her Touch and held it under a light it looked just fine to me, so fine that I was thinking to myself perhaps I'd keep it just in case I want something lighter than my iPad. And then I moved *just* slightly... and couldn't read it at all. It was eerie, but as long as I was perfectly positioned under a light I thought the text was superb, but even the slightest movement one way or the other and it nearly disappeared to these old eyes.


Hmm, that does seem pretty excessive. You definitely need a light to read (or at least a well lit room), but I'm wondering if the Kindle you have is a bad one. Did you try adjusting the font as well as the font size? If it's really that touchy about looking at it exactly right, I might consider talking to Amazon CS about it. If nothing else, find someone else who has one (or Best Buy/Target) and look at another one to see if maybe yours is faulty. Amazon is pretty good about their quality control, but bad ones do get through.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

mkelley said:


> Again, I bear no ill will towards anyone who likes the e-Ink -- our best friend (the one coming over Friday) is a Kindle fanatic and we love her.


LOL! And some of my best friends don't have Kindles.  for that matter, my hubby isn't interested... But he's a Luddite. 

Betsy


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

JetJammer said:


> Hmm, that does seem pretty excessive. You definitely need a light to read (or at least a well lit room), but I'm wondering if the Kindle you have is a bad one. Did you try adjusting the font as well as the font size? If it's really that touchy about looking at it exactly right, I might consider talking to Amazon CS about it. If nothing else, find someone else who has one (or Best Buy/Target) and look at another one to see if maybe yours is faulty. Amazon is pretty good about their quality control, but bad ones do get through.


I don't think it's faulty -- nothing changes with the Kindle itself, just the way I perceive the e-Ink (so if there's a fault, it's with these old eyes). Perhaps the decades of staring at lit screens have just ruined me for this technology -- I dunno.

We'll compare it to our friend's, of course, and to the Fire as well. And to the poster who said the Fire was too heavy, well, it's all relative. It should be featherweight compared to my iPad (which I have no trouble using). Then again, I don't see any of these devices as the sort you hold "up" per se, but rather prop in your lap, or put on a stand on a table, or rest against your leg (the advantage over a traditional book -- a book's print may be too small to put in your lap and read, but with these devices you can always just increase the font size. Besides, at my age, the real challenge is having arms long enough to read <g>).


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, when I read I always have whatever I'm reading resting on my lap (or my arms are resting on my lap) or I'm laying down and have it resting on my chest/stomach.  Doesn't matter if it's my iPad, Kindle or a paper book.  So weight doesn't bother me.

But everyone has their own issues and preferences.  Some have hand or wrist problems and can't hold anything remotely heavy etc.  Just like some can't stand reading on LCD screens, while others like you and I have no problems with them, it's all just individual needs and preferences. 

The reading outside thing you noted above is indeed a popular thing on here.  Like you, I never read outside.  I'm not much into the outdoors in general, so I pretty much never want to sit outside and read and only spend time outside if I'm doing something active.  But for those who do read outside in sunlight, e-ink is a huge plus there as LCDs aren't really usable in sunlight.  They are ok in the shade though.


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## mkelley (Dec 24, 2011)

I thought I should at least close this out (from my perspective, at least) and give a final report.

My wife seems to really like her Fire -- she went ahead and bought a stand as well as the extra year insurance so that tells me she is invested in it.  

Her main issue is trying to find something comfortable enough to use for reading in bed, as it does seem to her too heavy to hold comfortably (which definitely ruled out using my iPad).  I showed her the various solutions here, like the ones that are pillow based, but those don't appeal to her.  Knowing her she'll come up with something.

The thing that surprised me the most was how much she enjoyed the other things it does besides serving as an eReader -- she likes playing videos on it, going to Facebook, checking her mail... all things I could never get her to try on the iPad.  Then again, it is HER device, and I know that makes a difference.

She's also taken it to work with her -- mostly to try out checking out the ebooks thing at the library (she's a librarian and no one there actually had tried getting ebooks from their own library yet).  She just dropped it in her purse (albeit carefully) and the form factor (and weight) helped a great deal.  She says she'll use it to read or do other things during her lunch hour and breaks.

Thanks to all who helped me here in my journey to find a good Christmas present for her -- I consider it a success.  We sent back the Touch -- no harm, no foul -- and know that e-ink is just not for us.

(On a slightly related note: we had our friend come over who is the Kindle fanatic -- she's had version 1 of the Kindle since they came out, and upgraded to the keyboard version.  After playing with the Fire she said that she is going to dump her e-Ink stuff and switch to it because it's SO much easier to read.  And this from an e-ink fanatic!  So we made at least one convert the other way around, ironically (ironic since she was the one trying to convince us a year or two back).  I am off the firm opinion that, unless you read outside a great deal of time, old eyes just are SO much better at looking at LCD screens than this e-ink stuff.  But that's my opinion, and I know that many do not share it).

I will also be leaving here, as I'm rather an outsider (just an iPad guy trying to make his wife happy).  I'll come back if she has problems, but thanks again for making me feel welcome and the best of luck to all of you in this coming year and may this forum stay as nice a place to visit as it is now.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

We do have a whole formun dedicated to the iPhone and iPad. Quite of few of us including myself also have iPhones and iPads, so join us there. Glad you wife is happy. That is the most important thing.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

The apple forum here doesn't get very much activity though.  Usually not more than a couple posts a day.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2012)

I don't like reading books from the Fire because it is like reading from a monitor (which hurts my eyes).  But I use it to watch movies and play games and surf.  I still prefer by K3 for reading books.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

mooshie78 said:


> The apple forum here doesn't get very much activity though. Usually not more than a couple posts a day.


Right now not so much, but if something new comes out it picks up just like the Kindle. Right now with all the new Kindle versions everyone is still buzzed about that.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

I have loved reading through this thread. I held off ordering the Fire (well, I ordered a week after it was launched), thinking I would never need one. I loved my K3. Love e-ink. When I heard I could watch movies, listen to my audible books,etc. I knew then I needed the Fire, but of course, I would still do all my reading on my K3, using my light when needed. I have surprised myself with how much reading I am doing on the Fire. It is not hard on my eyes, and the backlight is good even during the day time when it is dark and gloomy outside. I know I will appreciate the K3 when summer comes and I want to read outside. I love it when DH wants to watch football and I can put on my earbuds and stream a movie or TV show. 

I also have a work-issued iPad, which I rarely use. I appreciate the versatility, but it is just easier for me to use my Fire (except at work where we cannot use outside devices on the wifi).


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## Cappy (Sep 6, 2011)

The whole reason I took to the original Kindles was the lack of a backlight. I found it much easier to read over long periods without the glare from an LED screen. I do hope they keep developing e-ink so that one day we can have colour. I will probably get a Fire when it reaches the UK but I still think I'll use my e-ink Kindle for most of my reading.


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## Lee (Nov 7, 2008)

I'm equally enjoying reading on my Fire and my K4 (Basic).  I mostly use the K4 for reading when I'm out and about, at work, on the subway, out at lunch, etc.  It's small and light enough that it slips into my suit jacket pocket, which is extremely convenient for me.

Besides watching movies, I'm also using the Fire to read with.  Most of my reading at home is done on the Fire.  With the brightness turned down and the text set at white-on-black, it's perfect for reading in bed with all the lights out, I really lose myself in the book.


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