# Defeated by Scrivener



## HezBa (Jan 24, 2012)

I give up. I hate it....like with the fire of a thousand suns kind of hate.

I don't know what's the main source of my hatred for Scrivener exactly. Is it the fact that I have a PC and not a Mac and therefore can't find any applicable help? Is it that the program automatically downloaded in Spanish and it took me weeks to figure out how to change it?  Or maybe that it is seemingly impossible to remove the Content page from the front (because I didn't want one for a short story)? 

Either way, I'm pretty much ready to throw my computer out the window. Or smash it. Which sucks because I wanted to love it so much. The idea of not really spending hours on formatting was soo promising.

I think I need to just step away from the computer for an hour or so (after a good 'ol fashioned internet rant, that is).


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## William Stacey (Jul 7, 2012)

Hello HezBa,
I bought Scrivener for Dummies, and it was helpful--although I do think it was written for the Mac as well.

I like Scrivener but it does come with a learning curve and the PC isn't well supported yet, at least not as well as a Mac.

I do hear your pain, though.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

HezBa,


I resisted even buying Scrivener because it sounded TOO fancy for me. I like simplicity.

But last spring I ordered it when it was half-off, and I had a huge (playing around with it for a couple weeks) learning curve, too, but I found a book that helped, in part because they did include PC-edition notes.

The book was WRITING A NOVEL WITH SCRIVENER by David Hewson.

He focuses NOT on mastering all of Scrivener's functions, but understanding just enough to WRITE FICTION with it!  Which is the point, right?

I tried the built-in tutorial and it was useless to me, because the focus was so much on highlighting functions that, still to this day, I haven't touched, even though I've been using Scrivener almost exclusively for six months.

Hewson's book was the biggest help, because it helped me realize that I didn't have to change how I work to use Scrivener. It's a tool, like any other, and I could use it as I see fit to make it do what I need done, so that it works for my specific use as a writer of fiction.

So I'd point you there, as a starting point.

Also, you don't need to necessarily get rid of the "contents" page so long as you learn how to export without it, once you're done.

(Side-note: You may not like contents pages for short stories, but please realize that Amazon and several other sites pretty much require them. For example, on Smashwords, you won't get into their premium catalog without one.)

I believe, as well, that part of that being there is that it depends on what template you start in. Use the short story template and I don't think you'll have to worry about the contents. Likewise, use the Novel with chapters for that, or Novel with Chapters and Parts for that.

People use Scrivener in very different ways, all of which end up working for them. But to do that, one has to get past that mental hurdle that says, "I need to adapt how I write and format to how Scrivener works."

Nope: make Scrivener YOUR slave, not the other way around. Hewson's book is an aid to achieving that.

For my working style, I prefer to use the Novel with Chapters template, create one Chapters folder, and then place ALL my chapters in that folder. (I tend to write in one-scene chapters.)

But what works for you may vary. I also know I don't use Scrivener for final formatting. I export to RTF and then bring it from there into InDesign. (But I happen to have InDesign... not many folks do.)

The most important thing to getting a good result is exporting it under the right profile and such. I won't go into the technicals here...

NOTE: Hewson's book is a bit dated; Scrivener for PC was in v1.0 or so when it was written. It's still mostly accurate, but the current build is v1.6 or so, so there are some features added since then which may help.


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## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

I had a quick go at Scrivener and decided I just couldn't be bothered to learn how to work it. I've written five novels on Word 2000, I've taught myself to format with HTML, I backup to Drop Box. I'm not sure whether Scrivener, once I got past the learning curve, would make my life easier or more complicated.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Lexi Revellian said:


> I had a quick go at Scrivener and decided I just couldn't be bothered to learn how to work it. I've written five novels on Word 2000, I've taught myself to format with HTML, I backup to Drop Box. I'm not sure whether Scrivener, once I got past the learning curve, would make my life easier or more complicated.


Lexi,

It can make your life easier... especially as it relates to revisions. However, the key is not to let yourself be mastered by it, but to tame it to fit your working style. See my post above to the OP.


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## DarkScribe (Aug 30, 2012)

HezBa said:


> I give up. I hate it....like with the fire of a thousand suns kind of hate.
> 
> I don't know what's the main source of my hatred for Scrivener exactly. Is it the fact that I have a PC and not a Mac and therefore can't find any applicable help? Is it that the program automatically downloaded in Spanish and it took me weeks to figure out how to change it? Or maybe that it is seemingly impossible to remove the Content page from the front (because I didn't want one for a short story)?
> 
> ...


Amazing.

If I had pick a single piece of writing software among the hundreds of apps available I would without hesitation nominate Scrivener. The software is genuinely useful to a writer - I would be very distressed to lose it - and the company is quick to respond and very supportive.

I use it on both Mac & PC with a virtually seamless segue when needed. There are very few real differences between the platforms. I now use it with "Index Card" on my iPad and can import and export from the iPad to Scrivener.

I am sorry that you have had so much difficulty, but as many thousands of people rave about the increased throughput and lightened work load, I suggest that you maybe start from scratch. List the thing you want to do with it, those that you are having problems with, and Google and Youtube search for examples showing how to approach those functions.

I am a professional writer and editor with several decades of experience and so I was not concerned with anything other than the functions I needed from Scrivener. I did not need a "How to write a novel" training course. From the first week of ownership, Scrivener was enormously useful to me. I love the CorkBoard capability and the ability to keep notes, add images and links when researching.

Persevere - it will be worth it one day.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

DarkScribe said:


> I did not need a "How to write a novel" training course.


It's not a "how to write a novel" training course, DarkScribe. Don't just toss such terminology about without knowing what you're talking about.

Hewson's book is a BOOK, not a "training course," and it's about how to use Scrivener to make writing a novel easier, NOT a book about how to write a novel.

Oh, the ease with which some people twist words and plain meanings to puff themselves up, rather than help others in rather simple ways.

Maybe _*you*_ didn't need any help using Scrivener. Bully for you. The OP isn't adapting as easily and is clearly frustrated. Some people, too used to MS Word, need a bit more help adapting to the program.

While you try to sound like you're out to help the OP, statements like this actually function to make you sound like you're way smarter than others who don't adapt to the Scrivener as seamlessly as you claim to. That's not helpful. As a result, you come off as condescending when you start off with statements like, "Amazing."

If that's not your intent, please realize that's how you're coming off.


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## Kevin B. Leigh (Oct 1, 2013)

I am so with you on this, Scrivener was verrrrrry hard at first because it did not make sense to this old MS Word guy. But after I finally sat down on a Sunday morning and watched a bunch of youtube videos on how to use it, something clicked in my tiny brain. Now I can't live without it.

Just stick with it.


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## lvoynich (Jun 5, 2010)

Scrivener has beaten me so many times I've lost count. I've purchased both the Mac and the Windows version and I want to love it.

I've tried it multiple times on multiple projects, but so far I've never been able to just sit down and use it happily. Everything seems like a struggle to me. Probably because I feel I have to use all the features, otherwise I should just stick with Word. 

I get to a point where I want something done (say, 3 chapters exported to RTF for a beta reader) and when I can't get it to spit those 3 chapters out easily, I get mad and say, "To he** with it!" Then I export it all and go back to Word. 

Someday, I will have the time necessary to learn how to do what I want to do with it. Sadly, that day may not come until my kids are in college.


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## jsparks (May 18, 2013)

I got Scrivener years ago when it was still in Windows beta. Because it didn't cost me, I never bothered much with the extra functions. I just created a document and started writing. That's pretty much what I still do today. Well, I split up my documents in scenes or chapters and may have folders to group things together. Other than that, I don't really use many of the features. I probably don't know half of them. I don't need to.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

I keep wanting to jump further into Scrivener, but I haven't had the time and I'm concerned it may wind up restricting me the way high-level tools often do. I have a system already, it works, doesn't require any more learning to get the job done, and I can share all of my files via Dropbox to all of my devices.

However, I know a lot of people love the application, so there must be something there.


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

I LOVE Scrivener. It can do so many cool things. It does take time to learn them, though. Take a class if you're having a hard time. Gwen Hernandez, who wrote Scrivener for Dummies, teaches workshops for both Mac and Windows users. Here's the link:

http://gwenhernandez.com/scrivener-training/scrivener-online-classes/


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

lvoynich said:


> Scrivener has beaten me so many times I've lost count. I've purchased both the Mac and the Windows version and I want to love it.
> 
> I've tried it multiple times on multiple projects, but so far I've never been able to just sit down and use it happily. Everything seems like a struggle to me. *Probably because I feel I have to use all the features, otherwise I should just stick with Word. *
> 
> ...


I think the bolded part says what the problem might be with it. I thought I would be overwhelmed at first after watching all of the videos and reading the manuals/help pages. When I first opened it, I had to fool around with it a bit to get it to do what I wanted (which, unfortunately, was to mirror MS Word, as I've worked with Word from back in '95).

One day I just stopped fooling around with all of the nonsense and chose blank template...and have never looked back. There's no reason to use all of the features unless you are writing scripts and non-fiction and research papers. To write fiction, it is extremely simple, and the complexity will ramp up as you need the features (and honestly, to me, it is not complex at all).

If you are 'fighting' your software, it is either awful software, or you simply haven't learned how to use it yet. Scrivener, as I'm sure you've seen in this thread as well as around the internet, is definitely not awful (opinion to be sure, but for the majority of us that have tried it, we love it, or at least like it enough to use it as our major writing tool). So you probably just haven't learned how to use it FOR YOU yet.

The trick is to figure out exactly what you want to do, and then learn how to do it (there's a TON of guides, help, forums, etc., and the Scriv publishers are very, very, very awesome about being helpful). If you don't know what you want to do with Scrivener, then let us know what YOU want to do (ie: your style of writing, or if there are features from Word or whatever program you are used to that you want to know how to do in Scriv), and we can probably help out quite a bit.

I'm purely a PC guy, no Apple products for me, so I can possibly be helpful. The truth is, as of right now, there's not a lot of functionality missing from the PC version that is standard on the Mac version. Or let me put it this way, as far as I can tell, based on my needs of the program, there's nothing Scrivner's PC version can't do that a Mac can. Again, this is based on my needs. I'm a very basic fiction writer. I write chapters, put in a title page, have a folder with some pages for notes, and that's about all I need it for. I found the 'find & replace' function, I can copy-paste any text into any Scriv doc/story and then convert it to the default text formatting style, and I've figured out how to make sure all chapters are included, and all formatting is how I want it.

I highly recommend Scrivener (I could be a sales rep for them, that's how much I love it), but more importantly, I highly recommend learning how to use it for YOUR needs.



> I get to a point where I want something done (say, 3 chapters exported to RTF for a beta reader) and when I can't get it to spit those 3 chapters out easily, I get mad and say, "To he** with it!" Then I export it all and go back to Word.


don't export. Compile. Go into the File - Compile - and then pick RTF from the drop-down list, make sure all chapters are checked that you want included (uncheck those you don't want included), then go into Formatting section of compile and make sure Title and Text boxes are checked on all lines (I always check metadata as well, but probably isn't necessary, it's one of those things I don't know about and don't apparently use, but it never messes up my mobi/epub/pdf/doc/rtf files).

Never export. I can't think of a reason to ever export, other than maybe research paper stuff? I've never imported or exported anything. When I convert a Word doc story over to Scrivener, I just copy all text out of the doc and then paste into a single page of Scrivener, then start breaking it up into chapters. This is probably the really stupid, long way of doing it, but whatever. It's easier than trying to import something then fix all of the problems (maybe, I'm clueless about this since I don't use this feature either).

And like others have said, there's a ton of youtube videos and helpful websites. I highly encourage you to learn only what you need...I won't write without Scrivener anymore. And ask away in this thread...plenty of people much better than me with the program to help you .


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I just did the tutorial that came with it then ignored most of it and just used the basic functions, which I love. I like being able to keep all my character and research notes in one place, and skip back and forth between chapters without wearing out my scrolling arm. I try to just think of it as a useful amalgamation between Notepad, Word and Windows Explorer and don't really bother with the rest.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

One time-saver that I appreciate about Scrivener:

Old Method: I'd start work on a new project with a yellow mini-pad of paper and start writing down notes. Mostly character lists and a basic idea of the plot/theme/what the thing was about. Then I'd fire up MS Word once I felt ready to start writing. On the average night, I'd spend up to 25-percent of my writing time looking things up in that notebook. "What color did I say Ember's hair was, again?" Things like that. It was all I knew.

Scrivener Method: I add characters to my character folder as I go. I can spend time on that first, or fill 'em out as I write. It's all there, handily enough, so if I give each character their own text file, searching out what I want is no longer nearly as time-consuming. It's all a couple clicks away and then it's back to writing.

That equals not only time saved, but more time spent actually writing.

It's kinda-sorta the same thing, but more convenient.


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## HezBa (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement! I think I just really needed to vent. I'm going to try again tomorrow, when I'm not so frustrated. So I'm going to stick with it (for at least one more day!)

I wanted to get rid of the ToC, because, for just a short story, I didn't really need it. But it's more trouble than it's worth to get rid of it, so at least that's one of my problems down


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I just created my own template and learned by trial and error. I created a folder in scriviner called chapter 1 and put a blank text file in it. Then I duplicated it x 30 and numbered them as my chapter. I numbered the files in them the same and these names become the headings in your epub TOC. 

After that you just write in the blank text files. If you decide chapter 12 should be chapter 9 just drag the folderers to the right place in the tree and then rename them. It makes composition and rearranging plot lines so simple.

I echo the other post. NEVER export. Create your epub or docx or rtf etc using compile. Tick the files you want included, not the folders in the compile list. Add your cover in the cover section and hit compile. The epub created will validate correctly first time and is uploadedable to kobo, kdp, and D2D without problems.


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

justsomewriterwhowrites said:


> I wouldn't agonize over it, because some tools just don't work for some people. I've used many of the major writing software programs out there, including Scrivener and others and always end up back at Word because I prefer it. About 3 years ago, I quit trying alternatives. I like Word. It does what I want just the way I want. I then use Jutoh for my ebook creation and formatting, and these 2 programs work very well together.
> 
> There's no doubt that Scrivener has made some people very happy, but don't let it bother you if you decide you don't want to learn to use the program. The program isn't right for everyone.


Same, except I do use Scrivener to create my ebooks. In that area I find it invaluable as it's a huge time saver and very streamlined. Even though I know HTML like the back of my hand, I have never coded my own ebook.

But as an actual writing tool? Yeah, no.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

You are not alone, HezBa. I gave up. I know of others who tried and ditched it, too. We're just reluctant to admit it because the program has so many avid supporters who will try to convince you that you just need to give it more time. And btw, I wasn't doing anything fancy with it. I simply didn't find it intuitive. It was like adding an extra step for ... well, I'm not really sure what for.

I tried for months, too. Bought Scrivener for Dummies. Watched multiple YouTube videos. Bottomline, I just didn't _get_ how it was going to save me time. Formatting for paperback doesn't take me all that long. It's the proofreading afterwards that takes time. I'd have to do that with or without Scrivener. As for formatting for e-books, if I drop a Word doc into D2D, it kicks back exactly what I need, complete with TOC.

I do think the corkboard is nifty, though.


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## DarkScribe (Aug 30, 2012)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> It's not a "how to write a novel" training course, DarkScribe. Don't just toss such terminology about without knowing what you're talking about.
> 
> Hewson's book is a BOOK, not a "training course," and it's about how to use Scrivener to make writing a novel easier, NOT a book about how to write a novel.
> 
> ...


I didn't mention anyone's book. You assumed. I was referring to much of the training material supplied with Scrivener - which IS biased toward novice wannabe writers.

As for how I come off, your inability to read without adding your own bias is the problem here.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

Hi Hezba, 

I started a similar thread a while back, at first Scrivener appalled me, then I was converted to it (formatted some stuff, made my own templates, etc). I then did all the research for a series in it, where it shines as a research and planning tool btw - but then when it came to the writing itself, I instinctively avoided it and started writing in a small cut down word processor called Atlantis (also formats to epub/cspace with minimal fuss).

I found Scrivener too messy to write in. Too much noise. I'm writing 3000 words a day this week (upto 5k per day next week). I'm not stressed by or wasting time figuring Scriv out for the act of writing - even though I own it. I'm simply writing.

Just do what gets you writing the moment you sit at your desk. Notepad will do.


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## A.W.Hartoin (Dec 27, 2011)

I love Scrivener, but it does crazy things to me on a weekly basis. I just don't understand why opening a new chapter would cause the formatting to go crazy. Every time I compile it's a whole new ballgame and not in a good way. I feel your pain.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

The TOC is a PC issue. You can't get rid of it, and it pops everything on there that you put a page break before.

That aside, it IS awesome for formatting. There are a bunch of us Scrivener for PC users on here, so if you have specific questions, I bet we can help. 

I echo using the BLANK TEMPLATE. I can't for the life of me get all the Courier turned off in the novel template. GRR.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I find I can't write and revise in Scrivener. I do my initial draft in Word, do my revisions in Word, then import to Scrivener to compile to epub. Then I use Sigil to edit the ToC to my liking, and save as epub. I use Kindlegen to create my mobi files.

This is probably more work than it needs to be, but I don't like working in the Scrivener interface, and it works for me.

But then, I create books of collected short stories, which is why I need to edit the ToCs. I don't know whether you'd need that step for a novel.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

beccaprice said:


> I find I can't write and revise in Scrivener. I do my initial draft in Word, do my revisions in Word, then import to Scrivener to compile to epub. Then I use Sigil to edit the ToC to my liking, and save as epub. I use Kindlegen to create my mobi files.
> 
> This is probably more work than it needs to be, but I don't like working in the Scrivener interface, and it works for me.
> 
> But then, I create books of collected short stories, which is why I need to edit the ToCs. I don't know whether you'd need that step for a novel.


I do a similar thing with Atlantis Becca, it generates a ToC from h1, h2, etc (same as Sigil). I tweak the ToC in Atlantis, export as Epub and set the opening page in Sigil. Whether using Sigil or Atlantis (or any other prog), I make two versions one with an embedded cover, one without. If you then use the one without it then removes that 'double cover' effect you sometimes get if epubs are sent straght to kindle.

Takes about half an hour, but it's rock solid and works for all platforms including POD.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

beccaprice said:


> I use Kindlegen to create my mobi files.


Do you sell the .mobi on your website then? You don't need them otherwise. Kdp accepts epub and makes the mobi from that.


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## Kevin B. Leigh (Oct 1, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> One day I just stopped fooling around with all of the nonsense and chose blank template...and have never looked back. There's no reason to use all of the features unless you are writing scripts and non-fiction and research papers. To write fiction, it is extremely simple, and the complexity will ramp up as you need the features (and honestly, to me, it is not complex at all).


Great point, BLANK is the way to go period. Just start writing then add a chapter to the tree. Then add some research below your work, add a list of your characters, then you'll start to see the power of having Scrivener be your book's file cabinet.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

I feel for the OP and was confused when I first got Scrivener. The main problem was that I was so used to WORD I kept thinking in WORD.

1. Forget about WORD.

2. Clear your brain and think simply. Scrivener is very easy--we tend to over-think--being accustomed to WORD.

3. Play this tutorial...play it again. It is so EASY. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie-bx6rLhrg

4. Scrivener is so easy that we think it must be difficult. I dunno why? 

5. Currently I only use a faction of it's functions, but they'll be there if I ever need them.

6. Scrivener has their own forum and the author (of Scrivener) fields questions.

7. Stop thinking too much.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

kevinleigh said:


> Great point, BLANK is the way to go period. Just start writing then add a chapter to the tree. Then add some research below your work, add a list of your characters, then you'll start to see the power of having Scrivener be your book's file cabinet.


Exactly this. It's how I write in it, and I'm currently on book #15. I could never figure out why some people were having such a hard time with it, but then I realized it's because they're probably trying to struggle with templates and what-not. For writing fiction, you really don't need them.



jackz4000 said:


> 5. Currently I only use a fraction of its functions, but they'll be there if I ever need them.


So much this.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

markecooper said:


> Do you sell the .mobi on your website then? You don't need them otherwise. Kdp accepts epub and makes the mobi from that.


no, but some blog reviewers ask for mobi rather than epub. Not that I've had great luck finding people to review my book on their blogs, but oh, well. I did a LibraryThing giveaway, and some of the winners preferred mobi to epubl.


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

I also don't like Scrivener -- too busy. I don't want all the bells and whistles, I don't want it to do cool things for me. I like a nice plain word processor, where I can change the font, margins, and zoom as I like (which seemed less do-able in Scrivener) plus notes on paper as needed. 

I went through the tutorial that came with it, didn't have a problem making it run, but I just didn't like it.


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## daphne dangerlove (Mar 24, 2012)

I have heard from a few people that getting started with Scrivener was kind of troublesome so I created this author toolkit that comes with a quick start guide to Scrivener...it's free and you can download it here:

http://theselfpublishingtoolkit.com/the-author-toolkit/

The quick start guide is fully illustrated with clear images and designed to teach you what you need to know to start writing asap.

The toolkit actually comes with the trial version of Scrivener but since you have Scrivener, you can ignore that part or just download the Mac version because it doesn't come prepackaged with Scrivener. After you download the kit, I have it set up so that you'll get seven additional lessons on how to use useful features in Scrivener over the next couple of weeks. If you have any questions, just let me know.


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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

Wow! Thanks, Daphne. I've signed up and will download shortly.

I have Scrivener on a 30 day free trial and, so far, have only used it twice. After reading all the way through the Tutorial, I realised  when I got to the end that it hadn't, AFAIR, told me how to set up a document and start writing.

I've been using free writing software - yWriter - for the past few years. It's very like Scrivener but without all the bells and whistles, and it's MUCH more intuitive.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

You do not have to use Scriv, no matter what others say. Do what gets you writing.


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## Paul Kohler (Aug 14, 2013)

I bought Scrivener in December of 2011.  After installing it, I was pretty excited to get rolling on it.  The excitement quickly faded as the program was not very intuitive in my experience.  I went back to using Word.  After a year, I tried Scrivener again, and made it a bit further in the process, but still went back to Word.  Then, yearly this year, I decided to really just buckle down and find out how to best use the program.  A solid month (evenings and weekends) of fiddling with it, I finally got past the problems I was having with it, and now all is right in the world.


Having said all that, I still use Word for editing, as my editor uses Tracked Changes in Word, and it is great.  After editing is complete, I copy/paste back into Scrivener and format my epub.  It is still a bit clumsy, but it works.  Nothing beats the Cork Board in Scrivener though.  Love that function!


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

Paul Kohler said:


> Nothing beats the Cork Board in Scrivener though. Love that function!


My favorite bit too. Works just like real-world index cards. They also rock.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm another one who loved Scrivener from the get go -- and I don't export to finished formats but continue to build my books via html. It's for writing I love it. (I did ignore their templates, started with a blank, and built my own.)

However, for someone who hates it, why force yourself to keep trying? Most of the world loves and uses Word. I hate it and avoid it whenever possible.

I do have to wonder, though, if something was wrong with your download. Why would the program default to Spanish and take much effort to change it? If you're going to continue to pursue Scrivener, maybe a call to Literature & Latte would be in order.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I've heard it said that Scrivener is non-intuitive and has a steep learning curve. I have to agree with both. Learning to use it brought me a _lot _of stress. I received help from the forums at their site. I only had one issue that couldn't be resolved, in one file, I could not get the Part I page separate from the page before it.

Another thing that sucks is that the Mac version is far superior. Nearly every tutorial I find is geared for the Mac version because the PC one doesn't have nearly as many features. It's frustrating for sure. I do prefer it as a writing tool because you can save everything in place. Character notes, chapters, plotting, etc. I don't know if Word has improved to offer similar features, but when I was using it at the beginning of creating my first novel (last year) Word sucked big time.

I'm learning Scrivener as I go, finding out how to use one feature at a time.


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## Grace Elliot (Mar 14, 2011)

I so want to understand Scrivener, I'm an intelligent person and yet I find it deeply impenetrable. 
I've wasted so many hours trying to get to grips with it and now I've admitted defeat. 
From the little I did understand it appears I've made my own system which has a lot of overlap with Scrivener.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Wow, some people are comparing using/liking Scrivener to being in a Jim Jones cult? LOL. That's overstating things just a bit.

I've been on both sides of the track. Before I used Scrivener, I was all "too many features and a lot of hype."

Then I bought it and really USED it.

Now it's all I use... for writing, not just for outputting or whatnot. In fact, because I own and love InDesign, I never do the final formatting in Scrivener, which is what some folks swear they bought Scrivener for.

I'll always prefer InDesign for final formatting and outputting to .mobi, .epub, and .pdf.

But I think the mental hurdle many of us face is NOT that Scrivener is so utterly complex that it's intimidating... it's that it presents a new way of thinking about how to write.

To semi-quote the Introduction text in Scrivener's tutorial... kinda...

Most of us have been brainwashed by MS Word and its clones. Because it's the predominant tool for writing, and its clones all approach "word processors" the same way, we've come to accept those limitations, even when they're annoying and not helpful.

For example, whether one sets out to write a 5,000-word short story, or a 500,000-word epic novel, most of us just open a single document and start writing and don't stop until we're done.

If that's how you like to write, you can do that in Scrivener, too.

But then comes revising, which means dropping out entire chapters, moving individual scenes around, and so forth. Which starts making the task very awkward and complex, with a LOT of time spent hitting PAGE DOWN or PAGE UP or otherwise navigating through a single text file to find what you want.

Now, sure, you can use MS Word and its clones to to split everything up into multiple text files, by chapters or even by scenes. But there is NO accommodation in MS Word to make doing so both simple and easy.

THAT is where Scrivener excels.

Once I have a complete draft (or, if I prefer, as I am writing that first draft), I can easily split up that manuscript into chapters or single scenes. And thanks to the Binder (or Cork Board, depending on what you prefer), once they're all broken down into these much-smaller documents, the entire project is a lot easier to manipulate during revision.

Let's say I need to cut the first five chapters and start the novel with what is currently chapter 5. In a single mammoth document, that's work. And usually it means dropping those first four chapters out entirely. Which usually means deleting it!

Or let's say I decide a scene from chapter six needs to be moved up and happen earlier. That's a lot of searching, cutting and pasting in MS Word.

In Scrivener, it's a matter of moving the document containing that scene forward and... done. Seconds instead of minutes.

And here's the thing: I can create a folder in my Scrivener project called Discarded Chapters or Discarded Scenes, and I simply move the first four chapters into that folder.

The advantage of that?

If I need any of that material, later in the novel, it's still there in the project folder, very easy to drag out and reinsert into the manuscript flow.

Now, I'm not claiming "you can only do these things in Scrivener." You can do them in Word. But it's more work in Word. Scrivener makes all these tasks (most of which relate to revisions) a LOT simpler. It's a time-saver.

That's the real value of Scrivener for me.

And when I'm writing that first draft? Scrivener has a Focus Writer-like "full-screen mode" that hides all the distractions. So even if I want to initially write everything in a single document before splitting it up, I can work that way in Scrivener and split it up later. Having it in Scrivener just makes it even easier to split it up in the first place.

I love Scrivener because I've been able to adapt the tool it is to my working style.

That's the mental hurdle to cross.

Beyond that, the value of Scrivener isn't in the bells and whistles; the value lies in the fact that it makes revisions way simpler and has on-screen solutions for the revision process that save tons of time compared to trying to accomplish the same tasks in a similar way in Word.

No tool is for everyone; but Scrivener becomes a valuable tool once a person gets past the whole "this isn't like Word' bit and embraces the idea of a novel as a project with multiple documents, rather than a single mammoth document.

Word just doesn't offer a way to do those things and navigate that way on-screen. Compare that to hitting the "open document" button in Word and having to search out the right file. The on-screen binder does away with all that mess. That's all the difference is.

If Word were to offer a "Scrivener mode," they could probably kill off Scrivener, but Microsoft sells Word for the professional office environment, primarily, so they think about memos and such, not what might make a novelist's life easier.

Scrivener is designed for writers and the longer projects we tend to work in. Scrivener saves me time; less time spent doing pointless navigation, file-searching, cutting and pasting, etc... means more time for actual writing and/or revising. Isn't that the point?


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## Kevin B. Leigh (Oct 1, 2013)

DDark said:


> Don't drink the Kool-aid. Just use what works for _you_.


I agree with that, I wrote for months in just google Docs, which is free and has a super clean interface. 
Just get the words down, save it often and BACK UP with dropbox or some other free cloud service.


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## Lisa J. Yarde (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, I gave up as well. I want to love it, but it doesn't fit how I write or arrange chapters.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Scrivener defeated me too.

I used WriteItNow for my last book, and I love it. No learning curve whatsoever - just straight in and writing.

What I'd love is if Word came up with a writers' version of their software - you can currently create chapters, but it's messy and useless. I'd like something like WriteItNow, but using Word - so that when an editor uses track changes on your manuscript, you can easily work on your chapters, instead of the hell-on-earth that is having an entire manuscript of 'track-changed' text to wrangle with.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Most software has a "philosophy" behind it that resonates with some users and doesn't with others. Don't blame yourself if Scrivener doesn't resonate with you. You might just need to use a different tool for writing happiness.

I just started using Scrivener when I began my most recent WIP, and I like it so far. But I moved over from a tool that worked similarly, so I was prepared. I'm using the Windows version, and none of the projects I've created had a TOC in them. I'm guessing that's a new feature.

I think Scrivener might add a TOC automatically now because they expect you to export to EPUB, and EPUB requires a TOC. In fact, the lack of a TOC, or a TOC with too few entries (common problem with short stories), was at the heart of the problem with the iBookstore giving readers the entire book instead of just an excerpt. I'm still not sure if Apple has fixed that yet.

Best of luck to you, whatever way you decide to go.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

I’ve been quietly using it since it was a Mac beta — and I was still on my PowerBook. Maybe because it’s been so long, I can’t even imagine how you can create long novels in Word. 

I tried Ulysses, Jer’s Novel Hut (both very good programs, especially Ulysses since it’s in more active development) and some more obscure ones, but I keep writing in Scrivener. It’s been fascinating to watch how it went from a tiny beta to the current golden standard status. 

I’d say give it another 3 weeks of daily use... just because we normally form habits in 3 weeks. If it doesn’t work at that time, then ditch it. If you get used to it, you’ll be happier long-term. 

It’s been a major time-saver for me, and a cool project management app. I didn’t even know that whole books and courses exist on how to use it, but then again, for me it’s a native environment by now.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

ameliasmith said:


> I also don't like Scrivener -- too busy. I don't want all the bells and whistles, I don't want it to do cool things for me. I like a nice plain word processor, where I can change the font, margins, and zoom as I like (which seemed less do-able in Scrivener) plus notes on paper as needed.
> 
> I went through the tutorial that came with it, didn't have a problem making it run, but I just didn't like it.


Scrivener does all of this, and in my opinion, it does it easier and better than Word (I've been using Word since the ooooolllldddd days too).


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I've heard it said that Scrivener is non-intuitive and has a steep learning curve. I have to agree with both. Learning to use it brought me a _lot _of stress. I received help from the forums at their site. I only had one issue that couldn't be resolved, in one file, I could not get the Part I page separate from the page before it.
> 
> Another thing that sucks is that the Mac version is far superior. Nearly every tutorial I find is geared for the Mac version because the PC one doesn't have nearly as many features. It's frustrating for sure. I do prefer it as a writing tool because you can save everything in place. Character notes, chapters, plotting, etc. I don't know if Word has improved to offer similar features, but when I was using it at the beginning of creating my first novel (last year) Word sucked big time.
> 
> I'm learning Scrivener as I go, finding out how to use one feature at a time.


There really isn't anything the Mac version can do that the PC version can. I'm sure someone will point out one or two features, but these days, the PC version is right there with the Mac version (how to get to some functions/features is slightly different on a Mac, but the feature list is almost identical now).


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

Scrivener _killed _me the first time I tried to use it. There's really no way to describe my frustration other than to say I wanted to curse every person on this board who recommended it and then recommend to them where they could stuff the hours I lost trying to compile the document the way I wanted.

Then I sat down and decided to give the tutorial another chance. Now, I'm a convert.

My suggestion is to do whatever works for you. But if you do give Scrivener another chance, put aside a few hours to go through the tutorial and look at the different templates to see what's convenient. I love the hierarchical structure to it that allows me to immediately go where I want to go without scrolling through dozens or hundreds of pages. I also love that I can brainstorm within the document and pick and choose what to compile when it's time to publish. Anything you can do in Scrivener you can do in Word or Google Docs or wherever, but I like that I don't have to use extra resources from multiple documents and programs.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> There really isn't anything the Mac version can do that the PC version can. I'm sure someone will point out one or two features, but these days, the PC version is right there with the Mac version (how to get to some functions/features is slightly different on a Mac, but the feature list is almost identical now).


If that's the case, it's set up completely different. I've yet to find a mac-based tutorial that has helped me do what I want. I'll have to play around some more and figure it out.


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

beccaprice said:


> I find I can't write and revise in Scrivener. I do my initial draft in Word, do my revisions in Word, then import to Scrivener to compile to epub. Then I use Sigil to edit the ToC to my liking, and save as epub. I use Kindlegen to create my mobi files.


Importing into Sigil and using Kindlegen is a lot of extra steps that you don't really need. You can generate and edit your ToC very easily in Scrivener. I always put mine at the back of the book and get it looking very pretty. And Scrivener will compile for mobi (it uses Kindlegen) as well as epub and Createspace.

I'm in the "couldn't live without Scrivener" camp. I started using it in the midst of my second Trial Junkies book and never looked back. The ability to jump around anywhere in the manuscript in a single click is perfect for revisions. I think this software is the single best invention for writers since the word processor.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I really hate Scrivener too, at least for what it's intended to do. (Except for a few really cool features.)

However, I took the little tour thingy before I used it, and discovered something: while i's planning and outlining features suck rotten goose eggs, and I really dislike the word processor; the word processor part is actually a really good planning/outlining/database. (Just stay away from THEIR outline and planning tools.)  You have to start with a "Blank" document, as people here have recommended.  And for that purpose, I actually love it.  Seriously adore it, like a tween loves a boy band.

I use a plain text editor for most of my writing, but now that I'm used to it I can write in Scrivener though I don't like it.

The other thing that I like about Scrivener is that it will compile text typed in "Markdown" into plain vanilla html.  It tends to want to overdo that as well (adding "id" tags to headers and other "helpful" things you don't ask for), so I do my html formatting in Dreamweaver.  However, I have just discovered some hidden options in the Markdown export, which allow you to create some of your own Markdown commands.  I hope to resolve some of my issues with that.

Camille


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

After half a year, I am still getting used to Scrivener. I like the compile features, but for the rest, I'm using only what I can handle. Yes, I second that book by David Hewson. I also have the Dummies book. And several other Scrivener books that I thought would help me but didn't. I recommend just sticking to what you need. The software has more features than you have time to figure out. That could be a source of frustration if you don't have the time nor patience to learn how to use it. Unless you are writing a Scrivener how-to book, don't let its rich features bog you down.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

JanThompson said:


> After half a year, I am still getting used to Scrivener. I like the compile features, but for the rest, I'm using only what I can handle. Yes, I second that book by David Hewson. I also have the Dummies book. And several other Scrivener books that I thought would help me but didn't. I recommend just sticking to what you need. The software has more features than you have time to figure out. That could be a source of frustration if you don't have the time nor patience to learn how to use it. Unless you are writing a Scrivener how-to book, don't let its rich features bog you down.


Yeah, you know, if you don't actually need Scrivener, there is no reason to use it, or to learn more about it. (I mean, if you hate it, the solution isn't to study a book about it.)

However, if you have reason to believe some feature or other will be useful, use just that. You may find more features you like, but you are not required to use it's mess of unnecessary features just because you use it for one thing.

(Like Word: I use Word specifically for it's amazingly powerful search and replace function, but nothing else.)

Camille


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I found the tutorial really frustrating. It was very hard to find the things they wanted you to do, and doing them often meant that you lost the darned tutorial page you were on and now had no idea how to get back to it. 

In the end, I guess the tutorial sort of helped, but during that tutorial, man, I thought I was going to beat the program sideways.

Also, there was the time that I put Chapter Five into the Chapter Six folder and couldn't find it for a half hour. That was a bad day.

Shortly after that, I discovered that you could hit control+arrow and move stuff over in the binder. That was a happy day, because up until then I'd just been using the mouse to move things, and I had a devil of a time getting stuff to not go into folders when I just wanted it flush. 

But then, I got confused at hit alt+arrow, and that made all the menus at the top disappear. That was a bad day too.

So... what am I saying? Yes, I've gotten annoyed with Scrivener. But I can't count the number of times I've gotten annoyed with Word. (Oh my god, there was the time that it took me DAYS, literally days, to get it to "print" to Cute PDF in the proper paper size for Createspace. This was before you could save to pdf in Word--or at least, I had a really old version of Word or something. I don't know. Or, do you remember how they changed the entire layout between 2003 and the next one? I had to relearn the ENTIRE freaking program. Gah. Don't even get me started on Autocorrect. Autocorrect is EVIL.) 

Um, basically, software is a pain. Scrivener is less of a pain that Word. For me, anyway. If you don't like it, don't use it. (But, uh, if you don't like it, then there's something clearly wrong with you, and I'm going to break into your house and force you to do the tutorial over and over until you do like it. Capisce?  )


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## journeymama (May 30, 2011)

I think it takes a lot of learning, but the ebook formatting is SO great. Have you read the book by Ed Ditto on this? I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/iBookstore-Smashwords-CreateSpace-Afternoon-ebook/dp/B00AFOMI8S/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1380863461&sr=1-1&keywords=scrivener+format+ebooks+afternoon


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I do have some issues with Scrivener; I'm not a blind loyalist by any means.

But when I compare the list of "Things I Don't Like About Scrivener" to the list of "Things I Don't Like About MS Word," it's not even close... Scrivener offers up far fewer points of contention for me. For a while, MS Word was hard to stop using just because it's so familiar.

Then I really started comparing that list of negatives.

My biggest complaints about Scrivener?

1) A significant learning curve. But since I went total immersion, I overcame that more quickly than most. I started out with a short story that I didn't care much about, just to test the program out. Then I started another story, a longer piece, to get a feel for chapters and scenes. And then I started importing in all my favorite WIPs. So, that's what I mean. Total immersion. I dipped my toe in, went in ankle-deep, then got out and jumped into the deep end. Now Scrivener is all I use for writing and revisions.

2) I don't care for the export tools for eBooks on the PC side. I dislike the thought of having to rely on KindleGen, for example, rather than having it be native code in Scrivener. But I just output to .rtf and use InDesign anyway, so... no loss there.

3) Certain things (like word counts on title pages) display as bits of code rather than real numbers, until you output. I'm not a fan of that.

4) I still haven't output to .rtf often enough to always remember the right profile to set it to, to get it right the first time. But that'll come more naturally as I finish more projects and do the outputting more often.

That's really all I can think of, at the moment.

If I started a list of things I can't stand about Word? It'd be much longer. Like, add a zero behind that 4 in my above list.

And the things I love?

Well, for one thing, the fact that it autosaves every time you stop typing for (literally) even two seconds. And backs up to a second location! It's made document loss virtually nonexistent for me; even if my entire PC crashed and fried, I would have the absolute latest version of whatever I was working on in Scrivener preserved in both Google Drive AND Dropbox, thanks to how I've set it up.

A few years ago, thanks more to Windows Vista than Office, I lost the same novel... completely... three different times due to hard drives dying.

That novel became impossible to write. I just couldn't bring myself to start over from scratch a fourth time.

Now, I worry less about such things happening.


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> Scrivener does all of this, and in my opinion, it does it easier and better than Word (I've been using Word since the ooooolllldddd days too).


I'd ask how, but it's kind of a non-issue for me. I'm now working on Ubuntu, and there's no Scrivener version for Ubuntu, and... yeah, I just don't like it. Because of this thread, I went and looked at the Scrivener website again and the screenshots made me want to run screaming. Too freakin' busy! I'd rather just use styles in Libre Office, put the chapter headings and/or scene breaks in some kind of heading format, and turn the navigator on or off as needed. I keep a spreadsheet with multiple tabs to keep track of the scene outline, log time put in, and about a zillion more things only some of which fit into Scrivener's layout.

Anyway. I stand by my position: I don't need to like Scrivener, I don't need to use it, and I honestly can't see how it would make a significant positive change in the way I work.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Totally legit, Amelia. There's no tool that's perfect for everyone.

However, the busy screen isn't an issue for me because of the full-screen writing mode. That was the single feature that completely sold me, speaking personally, on the program.

Because up till then, I'd been using FocusWriter, which is a distraction-free writing program (that's totally freeware, btw). But using FocusWriter, I always felt like I had to switch to Word for revisions.

So, by taking up with Scrivener, I've reduced the number of places I take my manuscript between first draft and formatted file.

Old workstyle: Focus Writer -> MS Word -> InDesign

New workstyle: Scrivener -> InDesign

Now it's everything but formatting in Scrivener, and formatting/outputs in InDesign.  I like being able to not have to use Word in between. 

Buy everyone's mileage will vary.


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## xoxo (Sep 6, 2013)

I'm also one of those annoying people who can't even contemplate being without Scrivener. In my opinion, it's the best program for writers that exists, from start to finish. <3 You know something is good when people keep enthusing about it and get no money out of it.

That said, I don't see why anyone would be under such pressure to like what they dislike. 
Just like with everything else, Scrivener is not for everyone. I don't particularly care for Apple. I think they are overpriced for what they are. I'm ok with my views, and any problems that might arise from that are someone elses.

Don't try to brainwash yourself.
You are allowed to use whatever means you want to write. As long as you write, you can't be doing it wrong. 
Use Word. Use Q10. Use yWriter. Use pen and paper. Use an antique Underwood. Use crayons. But don't force yourself into a mold, especially as the mold in question is so trivial.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

ameliasmith said:


> I'd ask how, but it's kind of a non-issue for me. I'm now working on Ubuntu, and there's no Scrivener version for Ubuntu


Um, I'm running Scrivener on a Ubuntu machine. I don't use it much, prefer my Macs, but I did write a novel on it once.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

I bought it on a sale, but have yet to really tackle it.  The first time I tried, I found that it wanted to divide my manuscript into chapter.  That's great...eventually...but as I write an MS, I have no idea where the chapter breaks will come. I'm writing a first draft on Word, then plan on pasting the chapters into Scrivener and seeing if it will help with revisions and formatting.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

I've used Scrivener on my PC for several novels. None of them has a TOC, and Scrivener does not force me to use one. I don't know why folks think it does. Maybe on the Mac version.

ETA: Perhaps they mean the compile function outputs a TOC in the .epub and .mobi files. You can remove it from an .epub with Sigil if you want it to go away.

It's strength for the way I work is in its outline (Binder) facility for organizing and moving chapters and scenes. You can do that in Word, but it's tedious, and huge manuscript files can be difficult to manage.

I compile to .mobi and .epub to distribute to beta readers. It will also do .pdf and .doc.

To eliminate the busy UI that some folks complain about, I like to type in full screen mode. No distractions. But the main window is no busier than other word processing programs. Binder on the left, text on the right.

There is indeed a learning curve. Once you understand the program, you can use it. If you don't need it, the curve isn't worth the climb. But you won't know until you've taken the time to learn it.

For publishing, I export or compile to whatever format I need and use a text editor, Sigil, Kindlegen, and InDesign. I don't find Scrivener to be up to the task of seamlessly producing a publishable work in any format. But neither is Word.

Most of the objections raised here can be overcome if you're willing to take the time to learn the program. The online support forum includes many helpful people. Every time I've groused about something, someone in the user community has told me how to do what I want to do.

But, above all else, use what works for you. No tool should get in the way of your writing.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Deke said:


> I bought it on a sale, but have yet to really tackle it. The first time I tried, I found that it wanted to divide my manuscript into chapter. That's great...eventually...but as I write an MS, I have no idea where the chapter breaks will come. I'm writing a first draft on Word, then plan on pasting the chapters into Scrivener and seeing if it will help with revisions and formatting.


So, in essence, when you first popped your manuscript into Scrivener, a dialog box popped up and asked you if you'd like it auto-divided by chapters, but gave you the choice to approve that change or not, right?

That's not forcing anything, so far as I can tell... I've brought entire novels into Scrivener that already have 30+ chapters and I've been able to say no, continue to work on the manuscript in Scrivener in a single long document, and divide it up at a time of my choosing.

So... not sure where your problem is. Unless that pop-up comes back a lot, which doesn't fit with my experience, at least on the PC end....


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## HezBa (Jan 24, 2012)

So I went back yesterday and tried again with better results. I still wanted to throw my computer through the window, naturally, but I did end up with a proper epub file. Go me!

If I'm hearing most people right, scrivener is best for organizing your ideas and the writing part (tell me if I'm wrong), but not for formatting and actually making an e-book.
My understanding is that even if it produces mobi, epub, etc, you still have to compile it as an rtf file, and then format it again if you want to publish on Smashwords. Am I wrong?

If that is the case, it kind of defeats the purpose of using it for easy formatting. The easy formatting was mainly what I wanted it for to begin with. Right now it takes awhile for me to format even a short story, let alone a novel, so it would be great to have something that can just do most of the formatting for me.

Maybe I should just look into this InDesign thing that some people mentioned earlier...


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## Gina Black (Mar 15, 2011)

HezBa said:


> If I'm hearing most people right, scrivener is best for organizing your ideas and the writing part (tell me if I'm wrong), but not for formatting and actually making an e-book.
> My understanding is that even if it produces mobi, epub, etc, you still have to compile it as an rtf file, and then format it again if you want to publish on Smashwords. Am I wrong?


It will directly compile an epub or mobi file. There is no intermediate step.


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## Tim_A (May 25, 2013)

Deke said:


> I bought it on a sale, but have yet to really tackle it. The first time I tried, I found that it wanted to divide my manuscript into chapter. That's great...eventually...but as I write an MS, I have no idea where the chapter breaks will come. I'm writing a first draft on Word, then plan on pasting the chapters into Scrivener and seeing if it will help with revisions and formatting.


If you write in scenes, start each scene as a separate text document, then you can easily group them into chapters later, shuffle them about, whatever. (Simply create folders in the binder and drag the scenes into them) If your writing is just a continuous stream of text with no breaks then that would make subdividing it harder.


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## HezBa (Jan 24, 2012)

Gina Black said:


> It will directly compile an epub or mobi file. There is no intermediate step.


But if you upload an epub file to Smashwords, they don't convert it into all the other types of files. They only take word files for that. So...if I want all the versions of my book available on Smashwords, I still have to go through and format it. Or did I miss something?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

HezBa said:


> If I'm hearing most people right, scrivener is best for organizing your ideas and the writing part (tell me if I'm wrong), but not for formatting and actually making an e-book.


That's different for every single person. Each part is great for somebody. I hate hate hate writing in it. I use it for organizing and for certain jobs to do with formatting. (It has the most fabulous conversion tools -- that go way beyond saving a mobi file.)



> My understanding is that even if it produces mobi, epub, etc, you still have to compile it as an rtf file, and then format it again if you want to publish on Smashwords. Am I wrong?


Sort of right, sort of wrong. Smashwords will take ePubs and distribute them. However, if you want to make use of the multiple formats and online sample and coupons on Smashwords, yeah, you have to find a way to get the book into a Word format.



> If that is the case, it kind of defeats the purpose of using it for easy formatting. The easy formatting was mainly what I wanted it for to begin with. Right now it takes awhile for me to format even a short story, let alone a novel, so it would be great to have something that can just do most of the formatting for me.
> 
> Maybe I should just look into this InDesign thing that some people mentioned earlier...


If you want easy DON'T look into InDesign! That's a high-end professional tool for the paper version. I use it daily for paper and pdfs, but it's never been very good at creating ebooks. (This may have been improved in the latest version, though.)

Here's the thing, no matter what you do, there is no perfect easy method of one-stop writing and formatting -- at least if you want to hit all of Smashwords' features. (Smashwords is the fly in the ointment.) The closest you will come, if that's what you want, is to give up and just use Word and follow the Smashwords guidelines (which work pretty well for other vendors too).

Most of us who don't want to use Word aren't looking for easy, we're looking for good. I use Scrivener for a part of my formatting process because it is a great way to get clean html out of a plain text Markdown. Yes it makes my life way easier, but that's because I do all my formatting in html.

In my opinion, it's good to have Scrivener in your tool chest, because it's a multi-function tool. And it's robust -- it has a whole BUNCH of tools that do all sorts of things. You never know what you're going to need in the future. I use it primarily as a database, but I often find when I have some odd little thing I need to do (mostly a conversion) it's got the tool.

Camille


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

HezBa said:


> But if you upload an epub file to Smashwords, they don't convert it into all the other types of files. They only take word files for that. So...if I want all the versions of my book available on Smashwords, I still have to go through and format it. Or did I miss something?


Scrivener compiles to rtf, doc, docx, pdf, odt, txt, and Final Draft. I'm confused as to where you're getting that it only compiles to epub and mobi. If you go to the compile screen, at the bottom it says "Compile for." Just click on the drop down menu and it lists everything you can compile to.

I spent a day fiddling with the compiler to get all the settings I like and then saved them as a preset. Now when I'm ready to publish I just have to hit compile and then select epub, then mobi, then pdf for print and I'm done. After the initial setup it takes me less than 60 seconds to format everything I need. I don't know how it can be easier than that. I don't use Smashwords, but if I did, I would just have to setup the compiler once, save the settings as "Smashwords," and then hit compile and it would be done.

If the formatting was the ONLY thing that Scrivener did it would still be well worth the money. If you put in the time to learn it, you won't have to spend any time at all later when you format.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

HezBa said:


> If I'm hearing most people right, scrivener is best for organizing your ideas and the writing part (tell me if I'm wrong), but not for formatting and actually making an e-book.
> 
> My understanding is that even if it produces mobi, epub, etc, you still have to compile it as an rtf file, and then format it again if you want to publish on Smashwords. Am I wrong?


If what I wrote has contributed to this impression, HezBa, my apologies.

Compiling to .mobi, .epub, and even .pdf CAN be done in Scrivener. Several other formats, too.

The reason *I* don't use Scrivener for formatting, but compile to .rtf and do that last bit in InDesign is purely a matter of my personal preferences and working style.

For me, I have my own copy of InDesign and know the ins and outs of it thoroughly. It gives me as much control over the final output as anyone CAN have within the limitations of what can or cannot be done in eBook formatting.

But InDesign is a complex, hard-to-master program... far more so than Scrivener... and it's a very spendy program, too.

(But InDesign is NOT just a tool for "the paper version" ... Sorry, Camille, but you're wrong on that one point ... it's a great tool for eBook formatting as well.)

Once you have a copy and know how to use it, it's incredibly powerful.

But for the average writer, it's way too expensive and difficult to learn or master.

Admittedly, once you do own a copy and have learned and mastered it, the results are terrific and it can make formatting a breeze. But some people can take a year or more to reach that level of competence with InDesign. (If you dislike Scrivener's minor learning curve, you'd HATE InDesign.)

Since I have the program and the skill-set, I'd use nothing else for final formatting.

However, I'd wager that for 9 out of 10 writers, the .epub, .mobi, and .pdf results produced by Scrivener are more than just "sufficient." They're probably as good as you can get, short of professional formatting.

(InDesign is a pro-formatting tool and I do that sort of work on the side, when I'm not writing.)

So don't let my love for InDesign throw you off track... one CAN create and use the .mobi, .epub, and .pdf files that Scrivener produces. I'm just a control freak about it, LOL.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

HezBa said:


> But if you upload an epub file to Smashwords, they don't convert it into all the other types of files. They only take word files for that. So...if I want all the versions of my book available on Smashwords, I still have to go through and format it. Or did I miss something?


HezBa,

Slight misunderstanding, on that point.

Smashwords demands either an MS Word .doc, or will alternatively accept an .epub.

If you give them an MS Word .doc, Smashwords' MeatGrinder will use that .doc to produce all sorts of extra file-formats... that are only sold on their (Smashwords') site and several of which are not very "secure."

If you give them an .epub, Smashwords will NOT generate those eight other formats from an .ePub.

However, whether you upload a .doc or an .ePub, you will STILL get into premium distribution to all their affiliates, either way, because they send out .ePubs to their affiliates.

Smashwords-compliant MS Word .docs are sometimes hard to get approved via MeatGrinder. There are nightmare scenarios many have shared.

A Smashwords-compliant ePub that checks out as error-free via the freeware program ePubCheck, will go through Smashwords quite a bit easier than a Word .doc, so long as you ensure that in your Smashwords version, you have their required legal paragraph AND that none of the text in your .epub is over 18 points in size, which is their odd little obsession. Since .epub is not a "special, produce this for Smashwords-only uploading" format, a lot of folks prefer to upload .epubs to Smashwords, anyway.

Because all you're missing is having MeatGrinder take your file and produce it in a lot of formats that are ONLY used on Smashwords' site. For example, they'll produce a .txt version of your novel... which means anyone who buys your novel can download the .txt file, and EASILY load that .txt file into Word, put their own name on it, find/replace a few character names, and then upload YOUR book to Amazon and call it their own. No thanks. I'd rather not make a plagiarist's work THAT easy...


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> But InDesign is a ... very spendy program, too.
> ...
> But for the average writer, it's way too expensive...


InDesign CS2 is free along with most of the CS2 suite from Adobe. 
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=cs2%5Fdownloads

I use them on Windows 7 with no problems.


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## DarkScribe (Aug 30, 2012)

Al Stevens said:


> InDesign CS2 is free along with most of the CS2 suite from Adobe.
> https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=cs2%5Fdownloads
> 
> I use them on Windows 7 with no problems.


It is NOT free. They are allowing legitimate customers to re-download CS2 as they have stopped supporting it and are not maintaining the Activation server for that version. What it is is easier to cheat and obtain a copy without paying. It is based on trust.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

DarkScribe said:


> It is NOT free. They are allowing legitimate customers to re-download CS2 as they have stopped supporting it and are not maintaining the Activation server for that version. What it is is easier to cheat and obtain a copy without paying. It is based on trust.


Apparently, you're right. But that's a new condition. At least since I got the programs. Originally they simply released them to anyone who had an Adobe account, which you get by registering. When I downloaded them, there were no serial numbers provided as there are now. You just ignored the startup request to register. And those versions still work. So, it WAS free. Please check your facts before you assume folks are cheating.

ETA: Those versions do not even ask for a serial number. You can go through the registration procedure, but it has no effect.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

I pay 12 euros a month for indesign through Creative Cloud, bargain. I format about one book a month for print (would never make an ePub with it), and at that price it's a steal.  A couple of hours with the free Adobe tutorial videos and I was up and running. Personally I found it easier to learn than Scrivener (which itself wasn't difficult), but then I did use Quark for a while about 20 years ago.


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## HezBa (Jan 24, 2012)

Just for the record, I realize that you can make compile your book as a mobi file, and epub, etc. My question is in regards to Smashwords and having to format a word doc. And yes, you can upload an epub, but then it doesn't get turned into all the other versions that Smashwords offers.

Craigintwincities:
Thanks for clearing things up for me. Just one more thing...
Don't people miss out on sales on Smashwords if they don't have their books offered in all file types? That's the only thing I'm worried about. If not though, then I don't have to worry about uploading a word doc.


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

HezBa said:


> Just for the record, I realize that you can make compile your book as a mobi file, and epub, etc. My question is in regards to Smashwords and having to format a word doc.


You can compile to doc and then upload it to Smashwords. You just have to make sure it follows the Smashwords style guide. After you setup the compile presets the first time you just save it and then anytime you want to upload to Smashwords you just select that preset and compile to doc. I think you're thinking it's more complicated than it is because outside of Scrivener it is complicated. It may take a couple of hours of trial and error to get the settings right, but you never have to do it again.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Al Stevens said:


> InDesign CS2 is free along with most of the CS2 suite from Adobe.
> https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=cs2%5Fdownloads
> 
> I use them on Windows 7 with no problems.


CS 2 is not what I'd consider acceptable for formatting eBooks.

I use CS6 and I wouldn't recommend anything prior to it, because of some hands-on experiences I've heard of from others.

For print? Sure, you can go earlier and be (mostly) happy if compiling to the most recent version of Adobe Acrobat ISN'T important to you.

But for eBooks? You need CS6 or more recent.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

HezBa said:


> Craigintwincities:
> Thanks for clearing things up for me. Just one more thing...
> Don't people miss out on sales on Smashwords if they don't have their books offered in all file types? That's the only thing I'm worried about. If not though, then I don't have to worry about uploading a word doc.


Listen to Smashwords founder Mark Coker and you'd think having all those extra formats on SW is absolutely critical and the world will end if you don't do it.

That's just hype. I have changed all my Smashwords books into .epub submissions instead of Word, and all new ones are ePub only. I haven't noticed it affect my Smashwords numbers.

Then again, Smashwords has not done well for me, ever, off their site. Most of my SW sales come from their distribution partners... long before I switched to ePub uploading.

The truth is this:

It's impossible to tell if you've missed out on a sale. Because you can't count people who don't buy your book.

So folks like Mark will say "you don't want to miss out on a single possible sale, so make if available in ALL formats," while someone like me will say "it won't have a big effect, don't worry."

And neither of us have statistics to back us up, it's all just opinion. Because there's no way to know that someone looked at your Smashwords listing, but decided NOT to buy specifically because the other formats weren't there.

Because they might not have bought anyway.

There's just no way to ground "negative statistics" like that in anything real. There's no tool to measure it.

But I do know this:

1) Under my own name (I have a pen-name, too, but that's another story)... anyway, under my own name, the only time I've sold a book off Smashwords.com itself is when I've made a book free. When it comes to paid copies, it's always been through affiliates like Kobo or B&N or Apple or Sony. (My pen name's had slightly better luck with on-site paid Smashwords sales, but not by much.)

2) I hate hate hate the idea of one of my novels being out there in .txt or .rtf or .doc format to get passed around to potential plagiarists or .torrent sites. I mean, jeez, why not just hand the manuscript to a complete stranger?

Just feels way too unsecure for my tastes, and that alone is enough to me to say, "If I miss a couple potential sales, so what? At least the text of my novel is in an .epub or .mobi format, which is more work than most potential plagiarists will go to, to steal it. They'll hit someone else whose work is less effort to plagiarize."

(At least until I'm more famous...)

My advice is of course informed by my own decisions and preferences. So my advice is, save yourself the effort: do an .epub for Smashwords and don't sweat the tiny number of sales you might miss out of because someone really wanted to read your book on an ancient Blackberry device that shows maybe five lines of text at a time.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Listen to Smashwords founder Mark Coker and you'd think having all those extra formats on SW is absolutely critical and the world will end if you don't do it.
> 
> That's just hype. I have changed all my Smashwords books into .epub submissions instead of Word, and all new ones are ePub only. I haven't noticed it affect my Smashwords numbers.


There are actually a number of reasons to still upload a doc to Smashwords (and some of them are the only reason to use Smashwords at all).

1.) Coupons.

2.) It appears that some people do use Smashwords for sampling -- and you don't get sampling without going through the Meat Grinder. I have found that there is a definite correlation between sampling on Smashwords and sales with in the next week on Amazon. I think it's true: some people sample just to see if there are spelling errors, others sample to see if they will get lost in a book -- and the tiny samples available at most vendors aren't enough to get lost.

3.) Those few sales you do get through Smashwords are likely to be people who want formats not covered elsewhere -- that's why they shop at Smashwords.

That said, Smashwords is a pain in the patoot.

As for getting a doc out of Scrivener: I have a complicated (but relatively low labor) process of exporting an rtf, and doing a little copy/paste and search and replace wizardry, which ends up with it in a Smashwords Template in Word. The only thing that's not easy is if I want to actually have a working TOC. (I do that step in html -- which does not convert to a Smashwords compatible Doc.)

Which means that only books with short and easy TOCs get working TOCs.

Camille


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> There really isn't anything the Mac version can do that the PC version can. I'm sure someone will point out one or two features, but these days, the PC version is right there with the Mac version (how to get to some functions/features is slightly different on a Mac, but the feature list is almost identical now).


The Win version is missing one of the really key features from the Mac one: the ability in compile to override some of the reformatting--in particular preserving centered text and indents. This is really a big deal for people who write a lot of scene breaks. With the Windows version, the only way to preserve a centered *** or a non-indented paragraph is to format in the editor which defeats the purpose of the compiler or to put them into separate documents in the binder, which is silly if you have a lot of scene breaks with short three or four paragraph scenes.

There's also a whole secondary way to create a TOC in the Mac version. Honestly, I've never figured it out and I use the auto-create from chapter names in the binder, but it's there in the Mac version and it's not in the PC one.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Smashwords took my first try when I formatted to .doc on Scrivener.

It even had page numbers (which I've since figured out how to nix). Smashwords took it no problem.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> CS 2 is not what I'd consider acceptable for formatting eBooks.
> 
> I use CS6 and I wouldn't recommend anything prior to it, because of some hands-on experiences I've heard of from others.
> 
> ...


I don't use typesetting programs to build e-books. Overkill. The .epubs that InDesign CC builds often fail the validator and might need format tweaking (Scrivener can have the same problems), so you need something like Sigil anyway. But if it works for you, great. I just wouldn't recommend it for e-book compilation. But I'm a to-the-metal kind of gearhead, so I tend to avoid one-tool-fits-all solutions.

InDesign CS2 is adequate for print interiors. POD service providers accept the PDFs, so compiling to the latest Acrobat format is unimportant. A bazillion books have been typeset with versions prior to CS6. My "hands-on" experiences have been positive -- once I climbed the learning curve, that is. What kinds of problems do people report?

I downloaded the trial version of InDesign CC and typeset a book with it to see if it was worth the upgrade. It didn't offer anything that I want to do that I can't do with CS2. Or Quark. Or Scribus. Its main result was an .indd file that CS2 won't read, which makes the file useless after the trial expires. Oh, well.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

Katie Elle said:


> The Win version is missing one of the really key features from the Mac one: the ability in compile to override some of the reformatting--in particular preserving centered text and indents. This is really a big deal for people who write a lot of scene breaks. With the Windows version, the only way to preserve a centered *** or a non-indented paragraph is to format in the editor which defeats the purpose of the compiler or to put them into separate documents in the binder, which is silly if you have a lot of scene breaks with short three or four paragraph scenes.


^^This. I sent a wish list report about this problem about a year ago. It kind of got blown off. Since they've fixed it (or maybe never had it) in the Mac version, maybe there's hope for the PC version.

ETA: I had the problem only with aero-length indents on scene and chapter first paragraphs. The *** centered problem is solved by making each scene its own text document and defining *** separators in the compile phase.

If you wish to use indented block quotes and the like, though, the indent problem gets in the way.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

I send Smashwords a .doc file, but I uncheck formats like txt and rtf for the very reasons Craig mentioned -- I'm not giving someone my book in editable word processing form. I know a determined person can make that out of other formats, but at least they'll have to work for it.

And I hate, hate, hate formatting for SW, even though now that I've done it half a dozen times it's no longer the chore it once was. My guess is I sell half a dozen copies or less through any outlet except the ones that sell epubs, but I'd have to check. I do want the coupon availability, and I think the larger samples do sometimes sell Amazon copies.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

How do you spell check a book in Scrivener? Or can you?


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> How do you spell check a book in Scrivener? Or can you?


Edit > Spelling and Grammar

Just like Word or other word processors you can have it check as you go or run it all at once.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

Cherise Kelley said:


> How do you spell check a book in Scrivener? Or can you?


Right click in your document, select Spelling -> Spelling.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Thanks! How do you search for a particular word?


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

DarkScribe said:


> I use it on both Mac & PC with a virtually seamless segue when needed. There are very few real differences between the platforms. I now use it with "Index Card" on my iPad and can import and export from the iPad to Scrivener.


I do the same, except that I downloaded the SimpleNote app to my iPad and sync with Scrivener on my MacBook.

The SimpleNote app looked a bit 'note', but with the latest IOS overhaul it's streamlined and becomes just a white page with text in the middle. Elegant and works like a dream. For back-up I email the notes to my mail account, in case a sync goes awry.


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Thanks! How do you search for a particular word?


Same way you do in any other word processor: command+F on a Mac and I believe it's control+F on a PC.

Also, if you follow the directions I gave on spell check you should be able to find it quite easily: it's the menu item just above Spelling and Grammar. Do you actually have a copy of Scrivener? If you don't, there's a free trial of it. You get the full version for 30 days and then just have to enter a registration code to keep using it if you decide to buy. Using it would be much more helpful in learning than just asking questions.

You should just try to do things the same way you do in any other word processor and if it doesn't work then look around. Scrivener works the exact same way Word, OpenOffice, etc. works, you just have more options.


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## DarkScribe (Aug 30, 2012)

Al Stevens said:


> Apparently, you're right. But that's a new condition. At least since I got the programs. Originally they simply released them to anyone who had an Adobe account, which you get by registering. When I downloaded them, there were no serial numbers provided as there are now. You just ignored the startup request to register. And those versions still work. So, it WAS free. Please check your facts before you assume folks are cheating.
> 
> ETA: Those versions do not even ask for a serial number. You can go through the registration procedure, but it has no effect.


I do check my facts - always. It was NEVER free.

If you had an Adobe account and it listed you as being licenced for CS2 then you could legally and morally download it. This issue came up at an Adobe conference and it was made very clear that they do not give things away. Once they decided to stop supporting the activation server it became easy to cheat. As recently as last month we had a staff member cause one of our graphic studio to have all our multi-seat licences temporarily suspended. There was a problem with a CS6 install and when the Customer Service rep manually examined it our account it was discovered that someone had done exactly as you suggested and downloaded CS2. The problem is that we had donated our old systems - to a charity auction - along with their deregistered Adobe licences and no longer had rights to CS2.

You can risk it if you are not a commercial entity, but I suggest that if you do that, don't contact Adobe for technical support if something goes wrong with any Adobe product.

As for "checking facts" YOU are the one who told everyone it was free to download.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

My books, Kindle and epub, are formatted on Scrivener for Mac. You can check the free version of Locked Room on amazon.com to see how that turns out.

I created a template so that all the books in the Amsterdam Assassin Series look the same. I upload my mobi and epub versions to KDP, D2D, Kobo without a problem. I had a problem with iTunes Producer, until I sent them the file and got the recommendation to make an epub without a cover image for itunes and upload the cover separately. If you ask Scrivener to compile, you have a whole array of formats to compile in and you can select what not to put in the compilation.

I use Scrivener mainly for keeping order in my manuscript and formatting epubs, pdfs, mobis and word docs. I write in SimpleNote on my iPad or I use the Composition mode (option+command+f) to write/edit. If I'm on Simplenote and I want to write a new scene, I just put a @ instead of a blank line and later use command+k to divide into separate scenes. 

Zoom in? Left lower corner says 100%. I work mostly in 175%. Nice thing is that it doesn't influence the actual font size.

Find and Replace is command+F

two hyphens and a space will turn the hyphens into an m-dash.

Once you're used to it, you don't want to go back. I'd get it for the compiling feature alone. I wrote Reprobate in Word, but I went to writing scenes in Scrivener for all the other books. Peccadillo was half-written in Word, but Rogue and the three KillFiles are created in Scrivener.


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## David North-Martino (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm a Scrivener for Mac user. When I first tried the program, I found there was a steep learning curve. But I think this might have been because I had just switched from PC to Mac. Once I got used to the Mac and watched some instructional Youtube videos, I found I didn't have much trouble working with the app. 

Scrivener actually saved my first novel. After getting a professional critique, I resigned myself to pulling out a couple subplots that were bogging down the novel. Scrivener made the process easy. I became so comfortable using Scrivener that I now use it to write the first draft of all my short stories, and then do a final edit in Word before I send it out to the editor or slush pile, and am using it to write my current novel length WIP. 

When I decided to experiment with independent publishing, I uploaded a professionally edited Word copy of the novel into Scrivener, separated each chapter, populated front and back matter, uploaded a professionally designed cover, and then used the compile function to create a MOBI file. It took me a couple weeks and some research to get it right, but I found that Scrivener can make a very nice basic mobi file that easily uploads to KDP. This saved me a lot of money in professional formatting, and will save me more if I decide to continue following the independent route.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Al Stevens said:


> I don't use typesetting programs to build e-books. Overkill. The .epubs that InDesign CC builds often fail the validator and might need format tweaking (Scrivener can have the same problems), so you need something like Sigil anyway. But if it works for you, great. I just wouldn't recommend it for e-book compilation. But I'm a to-the-metal kind of gearhead, so I tend to avoid one-tool-fits-all solutions.


Al,

I have CS6 and have helped to develop a rather sophisticated formatting template that, with only a few Find/Replace script adjustments and the adding of headers/footers, can take any manuscript from print to eBook and back again.

The only time ePubs fail "the validator" is when I've rushed a job too much and forgotten something. And running it through the latest version of ePubCheck can alert me to the problem before it ever gets uploaded to Smashwords. The only exceptions are when ePubCheck is updated and I'm still validating on an old version. But 98 percent of the time, the ePubs I create using CS6 fly through "the validator."

Like I said in another post, Smashwords ePubs are a little bit of a "special snowflake" because for no good reason, Smashwords enforces some of their "Smashwords-only" rules in ADDITION to the compliance issues that ePubCheck looks at. (For example, they don't want you using a font over 18 points in size, even though ePubs uploaded directly to B&N, Apple, and Kobo never flag such things... but that's a whole side-issue...)

And there is Smashwords' artificially tiny file-size limits (5 MB), which is no problem for fiction, but if you're doing a non-fiction book with a lot of photos, basically makes getting your book to pass through Smashwords impossible. I formatted a book once for someone that had close to 100 photos and no matter what we tried with lowering the .jpeg quality, 100 photos just presented too much of a challenge to get it all below 5MB, so that author had to forego Smashwords on that book.

Anyway, this isn't a thread about Smashwords compliance... let's get back to Scrivener-specific aspects of this discussion! 

But I couldn't sit by and let someone give others the impression that .epubs created in InDesign constantly fail validation. They only fail if you've made a mistake. In CS6, InDesign creates .ePubs natively, and can compile to .mobi with an Amazon-developed InDesign Plug-In (that, honestly, runs very sluggish on longer books).

So, InDesign CS6 absolutely is an appropriate tool for eBook creation. Probably the best I've used.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

DarkScribe said:


> I do check my facts - always.


Me too.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> But I couldn't sit by and let someone give others the impression that .epubs created in InDesign constantly fail validation.


I said "often" not "constantly." And I'd rather not have you leave the impression that it _never _ (or rarely) fails either. 

I suppose if you use InDesign specifically for epubs and know what to avoid, you'd have better luck with that. I've loaded several finished .indd files into CC, exported to .epub, and they all flunked. To fix them one must know the html/css that underpins .epub and use a tool such as Sigil. Perhaps CS6 is better at it than CC.

But, the Scrivener epubs usually flunk too. There ain't no free ride.

Whatever works.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Thanks! How do you search for a particular word?


Upper left hand corner. Type it in and over in your binder, you will now see a list of every document in your Scrivener file that contains that word.

Click on whichever you want.

Once you delete the words out of the search box, your regular binder returns.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Al Stevens said:


> I said "often" not "constantly." And I'd rather not have you leave the impression that it _never _ (or rarely) fails either.


Al,

My background is, formatting is my current day job/side job, and has been for the last 2+ years. I format at the pace of 150-200 books a year. Both print and eBook. 

I don't even own Sigel, so no, no *need* for that. Just need to know what you're doing. As, it appears, you do, too. 

That acknowledged, the only thing post-compile I have to do to my .epubs to ensure they pass is fire up a freeware program "tweak_epub" and change one setting in one document, relating to how the cover is displayed in ePubs, and they fly through almost every time. Again, unless I am rushing and overlook something. But that's on me, not InDesign CS6.

I am sure that if I set aside a day or two to really research it, I'd find the setting I need to adjust to avoid even having to do that. But lately, I've just been too busy to invest the time into it, so I use tweak_epub because it's quick and fixes that one tiny issue.

Now, let's either start a thread on InDesign/Smashwords formatting, or at least call a truce on derailing this Scrivener-centric thread, shall we?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

caethesfaron said:


> You should just try to do things the same way you do in any other word processor and if it doesn't work then look around. Scrivener works the exact same way Word, OpenOffice, etc. works, you just have more options.


Heh! Been using it for 6 months. I'm loving writing in Scrivener, but I'm very visual and have trouble locating the normal word processing functions. It did not occur to me to right click. Thanks!


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> Upper left hand corner. Type it in and over in your binder, you will now see a list of every document in your Scrivener file that contains that word.
> 
> Click on whichever you want.
> 
> Once you delete the words out of the search box, your regular binder returns.


Hm, I don't have a text box up in the upper left hand corner of my Scrivener window (PC version). Bummer. That sounds awesome.


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Hm, I don't have a text box up in the upper left hand corner of my Scrivener window (PC version). Bummer. That sounds awesome.


Mine is in the right hand corner. I'm not as familiar with the PC version, but go to View > Customize Toolbar. That will allow you to arrange your toolbar in the way that is most useful to you. You might even discover some functionality you didn't know about before (I did). The default is to not have much on the toolbar, but there's a lot of options to customize. There might be a search bar there for you to place.

I'm CONSTANTLY learning knew things about Scrivener, and I've been using it for three years. I think if you try to use every part of it right from the beginning, you'll go insane. Most people don't use most of the features even after they're really comfortable with the software. It's like a buffet of options, just pick what you like. The way I use Scrivener today is very different from the way I used it when I started.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

caethesfaron said:


> I think if you try to use every part of it right from the beginning, you'll go insane.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Hm, I don't have a text box up in the upper left hand corner of my Scrivener window (PC version). Bummer. That sounds awesome.


It *is* awesome. I'm using the PC version as well. My search box is in the upper right corner like @caethesfaron. If you enter a search term, the leftmost pane shows a Search Results list of all the documents that contain the term. You can restrict the search to the document title, text, synopsis, and more.

If you want to have access to your Binder and your Search Results at the same time, you can click the toolbar button for "Show Collections." If you click that button, the left pane will show tabs for the Binder, your Search Results, and any other "collection" you may have created. You can then easily switch back and forth between your most recent Search Results and your Binder just by clicking the appropriate tab.


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