# Faces don't sell on covers and pots of controversies



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Okay I am going to stir the pots of controversies here a bit - in many of the cover design threads here on Kboards the opinion that faces do not sell well on covers is always brought up by someone - especially on thriller genres but even for romance genres. So here is a set of covers. Which do you prefer and why?










Now, I have no idea what motivated the author to change his covers but he did - the top set is the old batch and the bottom set is the new batch. The noticeable difference is that the new batch has faces on them and are more realistic in style. From what I can see the author is doing exceptionally well with his books, ranking in the less-than-hundreds on Amazon. I don't know when exactly the covers were changed, I just noticed this recently (I had actually bought one of the books with the old covers long ago, I think he republished the whole series...)

So any thoughts on this? Which set of covers would you have gone for?


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Oh, ZOMG.

VERY MUCH the top ones.


----------



## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't exactly like either set, but the first set is incredibly generic. I don't like the fonts on any of them.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

The top ones. They're more colorful, and varied. They seem to say the books are about the adventure / plot and it's different in each one.

The bottom ones seem to be about this one guy. And since the guy looks exactly the same book to book, you have to wonder if a whole lot is going on inside the books.

I think the bottom ones might be aimed at a female audience.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

I just found this interesting article on the author's website about how he has changed covers several times and how that improved sales. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that this is an Action Thriller series as opposed to say a Mystery Thriller or something else...after all action movie posters usually have people on them:

http://russellblake.com/judging-books/


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

I prefer the original covers. The title stands out better and I especially like the assassin's target in the cross hairs.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> The top ones. They're more colorful, and varied. They seem to say the books are about the adventure / plot and it's different in each one.
> 
> The bottom ones seem to be about this one guy. And since the guy looks exactly the same book to book, you have to wonder if a whole lot is going on inside the books.
> 
> I think the bottom ones might be aimed at a female audience.


Yes, I think it would appeal to female readers. That could be a reason for sales improving...do more women than men buy ebooks?


----------



## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

I like that handsome man! This female reader suddenly wants to read those books, if that's what the main character looks like. Hehehe.


----------



## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

I think he has a high female readership, and the bottom covers might make sense for a subset of female readers. Might be best to ask Russell himself for the reason and what effect it's had.
To answer the question, to look at, I prefer the second set. If it helps, I'm a thriller reader, not a romance reader. My first thought is: sexy guy, second thought is: can I imagine myself as this person if I read this book? The answer to that is yes.


----------



## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

I do agree with whoever said the top covers were generic, but so are the bottom ones. In a way, nailing a genre cover is supposed to be generic. I'm not a fan of models in cheesy poses BUT the bottom covers have MUCH better typography. You could tell they were more expensive.

I think Russell holds photo shoots with a model for his covers, but to me that's like trying to make a realistic trailer. You're not gonna do it as good as people are used to seeing, so it can look a bit cheesy. I wouldn't doubt that he's grabbing more of a YA audience now, though, and maybe that's what he intended.

I don't have the link but I think he has a German publisher who redid covers for a couple of his books. If you wanna talk about good covers, those are the ones.

Also, be nice because he visits this board.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Domino Finn said:


> I do agree with whoever said the top covers were generic, but so are the bottom ones. In a way, nailing a genre cover is supposed to be generic. I'm not a fan of models in cheesy poses BUT the bottom covers have MUCH better typography. You could tell they were more expensive.
> 
> I think Russell holds photo shoots with a model for his covers, but to me that's like trying to make a realistic trailer. You're not gonna do it as good as people are used to seeing, so it can look a bit cheesy. I wouldn't doubt that he's grabbing more of a YA audience now, though, and maybe that's what he intended.
> 
> ...


Well being a female I also prefer the bottom set of covers personally. But the whole change just fascinated me because the advice I often read here on the Kboards is not to put faces on especially thriller covers. So I am thinking that sometimes perhaps we need to think out of the box so to speak? The new covers are obviously selling very well. And I'm a fan of his books...


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I prefer the bottom set. They look more modern and more professional and are very eye-catching. The old ones weren't bad, but these new ones are far more focused, I think.


----------



## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

Domino Finn, your new Seventh Sons cover looks great! (Since we're speaking of new covers.)


----------



## Ceinwen (Feb 25, 2014)

I prefer the new ones. The originals look really dated to me, and I much prefer the new typeface.


----------



## skyle (Oct 13, 2014)

Another female vote for the bottom set because the guy is_ hot_!

I would want to read it now in the hope he was going to be a bit James Bond. I see no romance in the offing with the top set, I would assume they were just written for men. Now they appeal to me too. Very good decision.


----------



## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I'd much prefer the second set too


----------



## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I like both, but I'd be more likely to pick up the second batch and it really is because I like the look of the guy. I can imagine the male readership would prefer the first batch, but as has already been said, aren't there more female ebook readers out there? Makes sense.


----------



## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

I much prefer the top ones. The figure in the crosshairs is perfect for the assassin theme, and I like a series that has obvious colour differences for each book. The bloke in the lower set does nothing for me - just another guy with a gun - and they all look the same. If I'd bought one, and came across another one, I'd think: hang on, I've read this.

Mind you, I'm not his target demographic, since I don't read this kind of book at all, so my opinion doesn't really count for much.


----------



## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> Yes, I think it would appeal to female readers. That could be a reason for sales improving...do more women than men buy ebooks?


I'm pretty certain women buy more books than men, full stop. I couldn't say how Russell's demographics shake out, but if you ever make me choose between appealing to male readers and appealing to female readers, I'm picking the ladies.

At the end of the day, Russell's a beast. He could've posed for that photo shoot himself and he'd still sell more books in a day than I've sold in my life. I definitely prefer the new covers, though. The old ones look like aged Clive Cusslers. If similarity to Clive is what guides your reading preferences, you'll probably find Russ just fine by reading the books they've coauthored together. Because he's a stud.

I'd also say that in general, marketing wisdom gives a big old thumbs up to images of humans. The received wisdom is that ideally, you want an attractive, blonde, female one. It's the gold standard of clickbait.

Hawt actionmen might be good too...I just worry about the conspicuous absence of chiseled man titty.


----------



## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

Domino Finn said:


> I don't have the link but I think he has a German publisher who redid covers for a couple of his books. If you wanna talk about good covers, those are the ones.
> 
> Also, be nice because he visits this board.


These covers did the German Publisher for Russell Blake's JET-Series. The cover artist is Michael Schubert.


----------



## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Melody Simmons said:


> Well being a female I also prefer the bottom set of covers personally. But the whole change just fascinated me because the advice I often read here on the Kboards is not to put faces on especially thriller covers. So I am thinking that sometimes perhaps we need to think out of the box so to speak? The new covers are obviously selling very well. And I'm a fan of his books...


Russell was already a rock star, selling a lot of books with his first covers, so it's not like he switched to the second covers and boom, he broke out. He was already very popular and successful with articles on WSJ, etc.

I've also been curious why the switch, maybe it's a great way to breathe new light into the series or (as others have mentioned) it was to attract a new demographic, only Russell can tell us why he did it. 

I write thrillers and personally, for my book, I wanted to keep the face in shadow. I even asked the designer to shadow his face. The image was stock so I worried that it would it be confused with other series. I also wanted to give the reader the chance to get to know the MC and I felt that a clear face on the cover would take some of the mystery of it. I also studied book covers of books that were selling in my genre and that was also the style being used.

Once you're more established and popular, you can get out of the box a bit more than when you're first starting out.


----------



## Jane Killick (Aug 29, 2014)

I was told having a character on a cover sells better than something generic, like a landscape. Characters generally have faces. Where did the idea that faces don't sell come from? Sounds a but odd to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russel changed his covers simply to pull in a different audience. He's sold to the people who might like covers with targets on, now he's selling to people who like covers with men on. As people above say, possibly women. Although, personally, that man would put me off.

Perhaps he will pop along and let us know.


----------



## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

ㅈㅈ said:


> I prefer the bottom set. They look more modern and more professional and are very eye-catching. The old ones weren't bad, but these new ones are far more focused, I think.


Me too.

It's not so much about the face for me - the bottom set has better and more distinctive typography. They look professional.

However, the change in weight halfway through the word _assassin_ *does* kind of make it look like a different word at first glance. Ahem.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Evan R. said:


> Me too.
> 
> It's not so much about the face for me -- the bottom set has better and more distinctive typography. They look professional.
> 
> However, the change in weight halfway through the word _assassin_ *does* kind of make it look like a different word at first glance. Ahem.


So I've learnt a few things:

Cover trends are changing again
Men prefer no people (or attractive girls)
Women buy more ebooks than men
An author should fit in with a genre's traditional look but once famous can change and become a new trendsetter.

By the way in school they taught us how to remember spelling "assassinate" - donkey, donkey, in, ate...


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> I just found this interesting article on the author's website about how he has changed covers several times and how that improved sales. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that this is an Action Thriller series as opposed to say a Mystery Thriller or something else...after all action movie posters usually have people on them:
> 
> http://russellblake.com/judging-books/


This is why he changed the covers. Going for more female liked covers. I did the first batch he got 2nd ones after about a year or so. He had other ones before too. It's good he's testing covers. The 'faces don't sell' is true for some part of readers who prefer not to know faces in advance and want to imagine things, but for me, I like knowing those and if the expression/emotion is right, it can make or break the cover too.

The only way to know for sure, is to test. Taste is subjective.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> So I've learnt a few things:
> 
> Cover trends are changing again
> Men prefer no people (or attractive girls)
> ...


You're overgeneralizing.. Except 1 and 3 others are way too subjective. They will never be 100% truth.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Alan Petersen said:


> Russell was already a rock star, selling a lot of books with his first covers, so it's not like he switched to the second covers and boom, he broke out. He was already very popular and successful with articles on WSJ, etc.


This article on his site does say his sales were poor until he changed covers though (although the article is about another series of his):

russellblake.com/judging-books/


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

RBC said:


> You're overgeneralizing.. Except 1 and 3 others are way too subjective. They will never be 100% truth.


Thanks...just trying to check out trends in covers...that's how I spend spare time. I'm sure you do too. Why do you think the author changed covers?


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

RBC said:


> This is why he changed the covers. Going for more female liked covers. I did the first batch he got 2nd ones after about a year or so. He had other ones before too. It's good he's testing covers. The 'faces don't sell' is true for some part of readers who prefer not to know faces in advance and want to imagine things, but for me, I like knowing those and if the expression/emotion is right, it can make or break the cover too.
> 
> The only way to know for sure, is to test. Taste is subjective.


Oh, you designed those? Well they are darn good too, many have said they prefer them. Maybe giving books a fresh look every once in a while boosts sales in itself?

Yeah, I think it is more difficult to do covers with models actually, mainly because it is so hard sometimes to get good model images.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> This article on his site does say his sales were poor until he changed covers though:
> 
> russellblake.com/judging-books/
> 
> But as some have said, it might have more to do with the overall professionalism of the cover rather than the subject matter.


Let's not make assumptions... Article isn't even mentioning the covers you have in this thread..

They did improve when he added a female on Fatal Exchange cover.. my mistake was letting Russell use old font (at the time his brand signature font) on the cover (he used new font on the newer covers and that font is just better).. that alone could have been a big difference.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

RBC said:


> Let's not make assumptions... Article isn't even mentioning the covers you have in this thread..
> 
> They did improve when he added a female on Fatal Exchange cover.. my mistake was letting Russell use old font (at the time his brand signature font) on the cover (he used new font on the newer covers and that font is just better).. that alone could have been a big difference.


Yes, I must apologise...the ones that really do not look professional are in the article on his site, not the ones posted in this thread, for clarity on that.

russellblake.com/judging-books/


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Bottom.  Top are SO dated.

And Russell's sworn off kboards.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> Oh, you designed those? Well they are darn good too, many have said they prefer them. Maybe giving books a fresh look every once in a while boosts sales in itself?
> 
> Yeah, I think it is more difficult to do covers with models actually, mainly because it is so hard sometimes to get good model images.


Yup. Look at my signature haha 

Refreshing design helps. It looks 'new' and might catch new people. And it's done often by him so it's smart. Again, experimenting is great. That's how he might find better and better cover look.

He also refreshed his brand by using better font while I had to use the old one too. I am more of the new font fan too (altho the text treatment on the newer cover title still baffles me but it's subjective)..his old font honestly, looks 'old' therefore the comments from some people here about font not looking professional etc (or even cover not looking professional...)...

This was an interesting thing, I don't know how much new Assassin covers are outselling but they might do it a lot. To me those are boring covers, but there is plenty of people who love them so it fit the market at the time.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> Yes, I must apologise...the ones that really do not look professional are in the article on his site, not the ones posted in this thread, for clarity on that.
> 
> russellblake.com/judging-books/


No worries. He's used multiple designers already, I was 3rd one, J. Gurley was 4th..

I hate that the new covers outsold but that's how it is haha maybe the cliche models and covers work and work very well. That needs more testing and from more and more authors. Otherwise we won't know!


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

RBC said:


> No worries. He's used multiple designers already, I was 3rd one, J. Gurley was 4th..
> 
> I hate that the new covers outsold but that's how it is haha maybe the cliche models and covers work and work very well. That needs more testing and from more and more authors. Otherwise we won't know!


Well, some say he already had a large fan base, and I guess unless he explains it himself we will never really know. I do see a comeback of faces on covers in many genres at the moment though.


----------



## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

You don't have to be a famous author for your covers to be trendsetting. No one had ever heard of EL James before 50SOG, but those covers are STILL being copied and copied and copied.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> Well, some say he already had a large fan base, and I guess unless he explains it himself we will never really know. I do see a comeback of faces on covers in many genres at the moment though.


Well he did, absolutely. He didn't come to me when he was new. He already had all those books out and we did 7 covers at once. I think relaunches did ok and not lose sales but afterwards the sales didn't really grow and settled down at a lower numbers. Is it only covers? No idea? Maybe Amazon messed with their rankings system and recommendation engine and that hurt sales etc. Even Russell can't know that, all he knows is if he did promotions or not etc.

It's not a complete picture and never will be for us. Only Amazon knows.

Anyway, interestingly, Fatal Exchange cover had a guy on it when I made it but changing it to a woman improved sales. This is where it's weird to me, I thought man's face would be better, but they did prefer female on that cover.. YET, we see comments here that for Assassin series females love to have a guy on it. So it's a contradiction already.. it doesn't make sense in a way that we could do any serious assumptions..


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

rosclarke said:


> You don't have to be a famous author for your covers to be trendsetting. No one had ever heard of EL James before 50SOG, but those covers are STILL being copied and copied and copied.


+1

You just have to have the balls to do it!


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

RBC said:


> Well he did, absolutely. He didn't come to me when he was new. He already had all those books out and we did 7 covers at once. I think relaunches did ok and not lose sales but afterwards the sales didn't really grow and settled down at a lower numbers. Is it only covers? No idea? Maybe Amazon messed with their rankings system and recommendation engine and that hurt sales etc. Even Russell can't know that, all he knows is if he did promotions or not etc.
> 
> It's not a complete picture and never will be for us. Only Amazon knows.
> 
> Anyway, interestingly, Fatal Exchange cover had a guy on it when I made it but changing it to a woman improved sales. This is where it's weird to me, I thought man's face would be better, but they did prefer female on that cover.. YET, we see comments here that for Assassin series females love to have a guy on it. So it's a contradiction already.. it doesn't make sense in a way that we could do any serious assumptions..


I actually don't think it's a contradiction.

The original Assassin covers look way cooler to me than the updates - because the updates are for the girls. If I want to read an action thriller, I care about the action / mood / story, not some 'sexy' guy doing Nicholas Cage poses. Looks gay to me.

But with Fatal Exchange I MUCH prefer the cover with the bloodied bills and the serial killer face. It looks like a dark thriller.

You throw some random chick on there, and it's like, who cares about her story? Well obviously women do. So what both cover updates have in common is that they're intended for the female audience.


----------



## skyle (Oct 13, 2014)

I think it's really important to highlight in this discussion something that Melody has already pointed out - *Reader trends change!*

A cover that might have sold a book really well a year ago might not be the right thing for exactly the same audience next year. Maybe women are more fickle than men, but I certainly perceive cover trends and I buy a lot of books from a lot of different authors.


----------



## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

At this point, nine out of ten of my mail list signups are by men.  And I got faces all over my covers. Just saying. 

To me, the top row looks like the stories are he-man thriller with agents named "Rafe" or "Steele" or something, heavy on plot twists and intrigue with little character development.
The bottom row, to me, would be more about the MC himself, possibly with some sexy bits thrown in while he saves the world.


----------



## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

The new ones are beautiful. I really love the colors. But I noticed that the old covers look kind of blurry in your post, so it makes them look weird and a bit crappy. Still, the new ones are much better. I think there was an article somewhere that said we're more likely to notice people on cover when browsing, but I can't find it and I don't really remember what it said. I don't remember anyone saying that faces don't sell, though, only that some people are creeped out that a character is staring at them or that he/she doesn't fit the description from the book.


----------



## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

The old covers are good, too, but I prefer the new ones. Not only is the guy handsome (though that helps), subtle touches like the crucifix round his neck and the fact that the model looks Hispanic also emphasise the Mexican setting, which the old covers IMO did not do as well.



Domino Finn said:


> I don't have the link but I think he has a German publisher who redid covers for a couple of his books. If you wanna talk about good covers, those are the ones.


Here is the German cover for the Assassin series, which is actually my favourite, but then it has been specifically designed to appeal to my home market:










IMo this is a fabulous cover (I like the German Jet covers, too), though I can't help but notice that the guy on the US covers is handsome and young, while the guy on the German cover looks a bit weathered. Coincidentally, the German cover also emphasises the Mexican setting, but then the setting is a selling point here.


----------



## N R Hairston (Oct 5, 2014)

I must be in the minority of females because the bottom cover does nothing for me. I am a hardcore thriller fan, but that guy on the cover would *not* make me pick up the book. To me, he's not hot, he's not sexy, he looks ridiculous. Now that's just my opinion, but to be honest neither cover does it for me.


----------



## Andrei Cherascu (Sep 17, 2014)

CoraBuhlert said:


> The old covers are good, too, but I prefer the new ones. Not only is the guy handsome (though that helps), subtle touches like the crucifix round his neck and the fact that the model looks Hispanic also emphasise the Mexican setting, which the old covers IMO did not do as well.
> 
> Here is the German cover for the Assassin series, which is actually my favourite, but then it has been specifically designed to appeal to my home market:
> 
> ...


Is that Heisenberg?


----------



## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Now you say it, it does look a bit like him, which is probably intentional. _Breaking Bad_ never managed mass popularity here and only ran on niche channels, but it has something of a cult following.


----------



## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

There definitely seems to be a gender split.

I would never think about reading the books with the newer covers because I don't read romance and that is how they read to me. Sure, there's a guy jumping about with guns, but I would never expect a serious action/thriller with those covers. That guys seems more a lover than a fighter. The first set of covers strikes me as very "Day of the Jackal" and if that was what I was after, I'd go for it.

Both sets of covers are good. They just give different impressions of the material.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Book cover trends change all the time, but I think there is more to it. Russell has a strong fan base & his readers will look for his books. The updated covers have potential to widen his reach and attract readers who might not have looked twice before.
Yes, a great cover will get people to click on your book. Some readers like faces on covers, some are drawn to more abstract designs. I agree with what others have mentioned about sticking close to the cover styles in your genre as a new author, but once you have a bit of a fan base it can be a great idea to take a risk.


----------



## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I prefer the bottom set for a few reasons.

For one, the covers on the top—though they work to help establish a brand—are a bit too similar for my tastes. I like consistency in a series, but I also want each cover to kind of stand apart in a way if that makes any sense. The new covers have consistency—same font style, series title along the top, and the same model—but I feel there's a bit more individuality. 

Two, the typography. The new covers have a much better font and the layout of it is handled very well.

Three, although I'm not the biggest fan of the model, I do think that the new covers are a bit more dynamic and you need that in an action series. I'm working on redoing some covers on one of my series because I feel that it's lacking that, actually.


----------



## 75910 (Mar 16, 2014)

Another vote for the new covers.  I do like faces on covers as I think it makes it more personal.


----------



## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

I read a lot of these types of books... I would buy the top ones and not the bottom ones the reason... The bottom ones look like a soap wanna-be. Think Harlequin novels 
I know this is all the rave now but it looks like cheap novels to me..Sorry


----------



## Catnip (Sep 7, 2013)

Female here. I generally prefer covers without faces. They work for me if I find the model attractive, but usually I don't. 

I prefer the top covers for the colours, but I like the new ones too. 

The model is ok, but he wouldn't make me be more likely to buy the book. I guess I'm not a people person


----------



## LeahEmmaRose (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm female and covers with faces don't really draw my attention more than others. I don't find most male models attractive at all. Not a fan of big muscles either. I like the top set of covers a lot. They say thriller to me. I love the colors. The typography is dated, but otherwise they would catch my attention. I would probably scroll right past the bottom set.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

I think the bottom ones look WAY MORE professional

Anyway I believe Russel frequents the forum so maybe he might weight in.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Melody Simmons said:


> Yes, I think it would appeal to female readers. That could be a reason for sales improving...do more women than men buy ebooks?


Yes apparently 80% of buyers are women.


----------



## Andrei Cherascu (Sep 17, 2014)

kalel said:


> Yes apparently 80% of buyers are women.


Wow, that's interesting. Haven't seen this stat before. I hope 80% of women buy sci-fi, otherwise I'm screwed.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

I have never clicked on a book online because of a cover and in a bookstore you do not see the cover unless it is front shopped, so I rebel against the kboards group think that covers are the most important thing in selling a book. I prefer the first set because it told me right away that this is a book that would bore the backside off me (even though I own one of them from a freebie promotion downloaded because Russell was on kboards when I first joined). The second set says war novel, so probably would be just as boring for me, but it raises the issue of misdirecting the reader (but then I have not read the book yet so maybe the cover is appropriate to the text or it might be a deliberate misdriection).

The problem with the model dominated cover (not just these but any of them) is that they look much the same as all the other model dominated covers in which publishers seek to follow the trends. Clue: if you want readers to click on your cover (and you believe that covers are all important) then don't make your cover look like all the other ones that other publishers are trying to get people to buy. If your cover looks like all the other ones because it has a pretty woman/man dominating the cover then it is your title and blurb that is selling your book, because a generic cover logically cannot be the cause of a sale if it floats in a sea of similar generic covers.

As to the second set looking very similar - I would suspect that is deliberate as it is telling you that this is part of that Blake series and not another Blake series. It is generic within the series so again forces you to read the title and if you are still unsure check the blurb.


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

CeeDee said:


> These covers did the German Publisher for Russell Blake's JET-Series. The cover artist is Michael Schubert.


Yeah, those are my favorites!


----------



## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

SevenDays said:


> Yeah, those are my favorites!


I saw those on his blog. Stunning! I have cover envy.


----------



## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

The bottom set, hands down because I prefer faces on covers.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Mercia McMahon said:


> The problem with the model dominated cover (not just these but any of them) is that they look much the same as all the other model dominated covers in which publishers seek to follow the trends.


I've never liked models on covers. I don't really even like photographs of any kind. I usually prefer all text or hand drawn/painted looking images.

ETA I just saw what I wrote above together with my reading bar below and had to laugh. Yeah, a perfect example of what I said above would be the images below.


----------



## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

I prefer the bottom covers, but likely because of the color toning and the typography. I really don't prefer the sexy model on the cover look for a thriller series. I would have gone with something that sort of combined the best of both - but then, I'm not Russell or selling like he does, so what do I know!!


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

The top covers are classic James Bond clones. I prefer them, but for nostalgic reasons. It surprised me that someone upthread thought the bottom covers were more James Bond, but then I remembered that the newer movie opening credits have gone away from the barrel target motif. It features strongly in the opening credits of all the vintage movies.

My husband surprised me by picking the bottom covers. He is the target audience for these books, too. Action thriller is his favorite genre.


----------



## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Yes, I prefer the bottom covers and I do feel its because the top ones are too masculine and James Bondy for me.

As you can see by my covers, I'm okay with faces on covers lol


----------



## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

The other day we were in a bookshop and I asked my husband to pick out the books that appealed to him, just going by the cover nothing else. I would do the same. None of our picked books were the same, LOL! His were nearly all symbols or painted covers, no photos at all. He hates photos on books. Mine all had people in, whether photographic or illustration. 

I had an elegant tasteful symbol cover on one of my M/M romances, it sank like a stone. New cover, man's half-naked torso and it started selling. I bought him an iPod with the royalties and he said, "Eh, what do I know? I don't know what'll sell."

If I had to guess, I'd say he'd go for the top covers and I'd go for the bottom ones on this series.


----------



## CfaE (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm voting for the new covers. Yes, it's probably a girl thing. I want to see the hot guy shooting things. 

I made a cover recently, and the face thing came up. Originally, I was going to go for the hot body/abs kind of look, but the model had such a wicked smile on his face that I put his face on the cover too. A wicked grin and abs beats just abs any day for attracting my attention, so I figure I'm not the only one it attracts. I think the right face will add emotion to the cover. The wrong expression can be a car wreck though.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> For one, the covers on the top--though they work to help establish a brand--are a bit too similar for my tastes. I like consistency in a series, but I also want each cover to kind of stand apart in a way if that makes any sense. The new covers have consistency--same font style, series title along the top, and the same model--but I feel there's a bit more individuality.
> 
> Two, the typography. The new covers have a much better font and the layout of it is handled very well.


I agree on the typography, but I don't feel the second set gets away from the "too similar" problem. Honestly I dislike both sets, meaning no disrespect to the author, because the covers within each set are way too same-y. While the second is slightly more dynamic, it's ultimately the same model in the same clothes in the same background with the same color cast. There's literally nothing else going on between each cover other than a change of title and pose, and by the third one it starts to look silly. The first set is slightly more generic; the second is, by repetition, slightly goofy. To me it's a complete wash.

Compare to his Jet covers that were posted elsewhere in the thread. Those two covers look different in substance while still carrying a very, very strong sense of consistency.


----------



## von19 (Feb 20, 2013)

Top


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Lummox JR said:


> I agree on the typography, but I don't feel the second set gets away from the "too similar" problem. Honestly I dislike both sets, meaning no disrespect to the author, because the covers within each set are way too same-y. While the second is slightly more dynamic, it's ultimately the same model in the same clothes in the same background with the same color cast. There's literally nothing else going on between each cover other than a change of title and pose, and by the third one it starts to look silly. The first set is slightly more generic; the second is, by repetition, slightly goofy. To me it's a complete wash.


Well, that's an interesting perspective because I am fond of sets of covers that look very similar - sort of fulfills the craving for neatness and order in me...


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

His Jet covers as I mentioned look very similar, but don't suffer from being utterly the same. These are way, way too samey for anything but a serial.

There's a difference between strong branding and making covers look _so_ much alike that there's nothing to distinguish them. I really love a strong, consistent feel within a series. But within that there can be a lot of variation on color cast, the kinds of things I'll see in the cover image, etc. The same guy in different poses and nothing more, like you've just stumbled onto a photo shoot or got a deal on stock and and stamped words on each picture, just doesn't cut it. Nor does the recurring "guy in crosshairs" motif.


----------



## Nick Fox (Oct 26, 2010)

Just wanted to chime in that I'm a male and much prefer the new covers to the old. Much more professional looking, in my opinion.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Lummox JR said:


> His Jet covers as I mentioned look very similar, but don't suffer from being utterly the same. These are way, way too samey for anything but a serial.
> 
> There's a difference between strong branding and making covers look _so_ much alike that there's nothing to distinguish them. I really love a strong, consistent feel within a series. But within that there can be a lot of variation on color cast, the kinds of things I'll see in the cover image, etc. The same guy in different poses and nothing more, like you've just stumbled onto a photo shoot or got a deal on stock and and stamped words on each picture, just doesn't cut it. Nor does the recurring "guy in crosshairs" motif.


You may have your opinions but the point is these books are SELLING. Check the sales rankings.


----------



## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

CASD57 said:


> I read a lot of these types of books... I would buy the top ones and not the bottom ones the reason... The bottom ones look like a soap wanna-be. Think Harlequin novels
> I know this is all the rave now but it looks like cheap novels to me..Sorry


I concur. i wouldn't read a book with the male model cover if it was given to me. The cover screams romance to me. Like Costner in The Bodyguard or something. The only love I want in an action book I'm reading is love of splosions and ass-whoopins.


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Melody Simmons said:


> You may have your opinions but the point is these books are SELLING. Check the sales rankings.


What she said. Sometimes instead of thinking about how *you* personally don't like something, as a marketer and publisher, which we all are, you have to think about where the audience is and how they approach things. That usually means studying the things that are working, ie the books that sell. When someone on Blake's level makes a sweeping change in covers, I tend to pay attention and study what he does, for example. Especially if/when I write in that genre.


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Hey, it's Russell Blake. I defer to his judgment. Nobody works harder or studies more than he does what works. If he changed them, it was for a good reason.

Besides, I like the bottom ones better.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

100% agree that what is selling is what is best.

I was just trying to figure out WHY.


----------



## Debbie Bennett (Mar 25, 2011)

Very encouraging since my latest thriller series covers are all about sexy-man-with-gun!


----------



## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

I think this "faces don't sell" thing is just a myth. I don't know where it came from. I get that there's a group who want things to be left to the imagination, and certainly there's a lot to that-the classic example is Ged from the Earthsea series, who is clearly described as a person of color but inevitably gets whitewashed when he's shown on covers. Still, I don't think that has anything to do with whether people buy books. I'd be surprised if faces don't get more looks than dated clichés.



Mercia McMahon said:


> The problem with the model dominated cover (not just these but any of them) is that they look much the same as all the other model dominated covers in which publishers seek to follow the trends. Clue: if you want readers to click on your cover (and you believe that covers are all important) then don't make your cover look like all the other ones that other publishers are trying to get people to buy. If your cover looks like all the other ones because it has a pretty woman/man dominating the cover then it is your title and blurb that is selling your book, because a generic cover logically cannot be the cause of a sale if it floats in a sea of similar generic covers.


But a good cover is necessary, yet not sufficient for a book to sell in volume. Stand out too much and you can be passed over just as easily as embraced-in fact, I think it's much more likely that you'd be passed over. You have to match the genre while still arresting the reader. Once you've got the eyeballs, you have to close the deal with other features like the blurb, the title, the price, the series, your rep as an author, the Look Inside, reviews, &c.

Those of us who think covers are important still don't think there's a Holy Grail of covers that will get thousands of instabuys. It's _an_ important factor.



Melody Simmons said:


> You may have your opinions but the point is these books are SELLING. Check the sales rankings.


Again, I'm not sure if you were familiar with Russell before this, but he's, like, a millionaire. From writing. He sells all the books. He could put a paper bag over that model's face and still sell all the books. I'm sure Lummox is quite aware.

What matters with Russell's covers isn't whether they sell-they've always sold. The question is whether they sell _more._ It sounds like _Fatal Exchange_ took off after he changed that cover, and I can see why. It'd be interesting to hear from him about how this rebranding turns out.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

The old ones are good but they look a bit dated. I prefer the new ones, not because of the bloke on the front (although he is very easy on the eye), but because they look new and modern and recently redesigned. I would also say they're much more female-friendly in general, so I can only assume he's trying to tap into a new readership.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Well, I know I'd never pick up the first set. They look kind of old fashioned to me, and very fierce and factual and filled with details I'm not going to understand. Also, very much with the killing. Violent and precise and detailed. Probably assassination plots, etc. (What can I say? I'm not a big thriller fan!)



ShaneJeffery said:


> Looks gay to me.


 



You said it, not me. 

Actually yes, I love the second set of covers. But because I'm mostly reading gay romance, I see a lot of covers with sexy guys on them and many of them in action poses, I do think, "Ooh, could it be a gay romance??" This is always me being hopeful when I think this about a book, and it's usually not, so LOL.

Covers with people, in general, seem more approachable to many readers, I think. As long as it's not Angry Pouting Model of Meanness. And heck, sometimes even that works.

Wish this was a gay action romance story now... 

Covers with symbols or designs on them tend to be classy, but in my experience they NEVER sell as well as pictures with people! (And personally, now that I can afford people-covers, I am going to be using them whenever possible. I like the nice reflection on my sales charts!!)


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I actually don't think it's a contradiction.
> 
> The original Assassin covers look way cooler to me than the updates - because the updates are for the girls. If I want to read an action thriller, I care about the action / mood / story, not some 'sexy' guy doing Nicholas Cage poses. Looks gay to me.
> 
> ...


The contradiction to me is that female audience preferred a lady upclose on one cover (Fatal Exchange) and then male model on the Assassin series.. That's the contradiction.. I can see why women would prefer a good looking guy on the cover, but not girl. Then again, I might get why they like the girl on the cover too (identifying with her etc?)..

Anyway, there is NO WAY we will know this. As seen in this thread this is just too subjective. The best way is to test different options and see what wins for you.


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

I think it's better to take a "CLUE:" about everything publishing-related from people who are actually selling.  You can make whatever guesses or assertions you like about genre, covers, blurbs, characters, craft, WHATEVER, but chances are, if you're not moving books, there's a really high likelihood that your speculations are wrong.

The people who sell largely say the same things over and over and over--except a couple who like to play coy and pretend it's all an accident.  (It very rarely is, and even if it starts that way and doesn't fizzle, there are reasons that are not accidents.)  Doing the right things don't guarantee success, but they sure help.

Go ahead and tell the people who are moving books how they're doing it all wrong, though.  I never quite get tired of it.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

RBC said:


> The contradiction to me is that female audience preferred a lady upclose on one cover (Fatal Exchange) and then male model on the Assassin series.. That's the contradiction.. I can see why women would prefer a good looking guy on the cover, but not girl. Then again, I might get why they like the girl on the cover too (identifying with her etc?)..
> 
> Anyway, there is NO WAY we will know this. As seen in this thread this is just too subjective. The best way is to test different options and see what wins for you.


Women like women on covers because they identify with them - see themselves in the model. I know because I do too! And they like men on covers because well - they are attracted to them. So both sexes work for women, but usually men do not like men on covers - they prefer only women, or no models. *Disclaimer* This does not include of course those with different sexual orientations - gay or bisexual etc, and there are always some exceptions to rules or generalisations...


----------



## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

People don't like faces on their covers? We've had a few good things said to us about ours so I don't know if that's true. 

Actiony stuff? Who knows. I think the guy does look a little ...not straight... but we need more of those in mainstream fiction, anyway. I like the colors in the second set better. But then again, I don't like the model. I really don't feel like he knows how to hold a gun in a few of those pictures and I just don't take him seriously. 

But then again, how many of his readers actually know how to hold a gun?


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

ㅈㅈ said:


> What she said. Sometimes instead of thinking about how *you* personally don't like something, as a marketer and publisher, which we all are, you have to think about where the audience is and how they approach things. That usually means studying the things that are working, ie the books that sell. When someone on Blake's level makes a sweeping change in covers, I tend to pay attention and study what he does, for example. Especially if/when I write in that genre.


I'm not sure why this thread was started in the first place. Blake's books are selling and have been selling for a long time. I'm sure he doesn't give a hoot what anyone here has to say about his covers.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> I'm not sure why this thread was started in the first place. Blake's books are selling and have been selling for a long time. I'm sure he doesn't give a hoot what anyone here has to say about his covers.


It's an interesting mental exercise.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> I'm not sure why this thread was started in the first place. Blake's books are selling and have been selling for a long time. I'm sure he doesn't give a hoot what anyone here has to say about his covers.


I started the thread and it is nothing against the author. In fact he will rather get good publicity from the thread. I study book covers and the market all the time, to see what works and what is "in." I was fascinated by the change in covers, especially since in the past I have seen the advice on Kboards that faces do not sell well on thriller covers. I wanted to know if this is the new direction that thriller covers are taking...


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

ʬ said:


> I think it's better to take a "CLUE:" about everything publishing-related from people who are actually selling. You can make whatever guesses or assertions you like about genre, covers, blurbs, characters, craft, WHATEVER, but chances are, if you're not moving books, there's a really high likelihood that your speculations are wrong.
> 
> The people who sell largely say the same things over and over and over--except a couple who like to play coy and pretend it's all an accident. (It very rarely is, and even if it starts that way and doesn't fizzle, there are reasons that are not an accidents.) Doing the right things don't guarantee success, but they sure help.
> 
> Go ahead and tell the people who are moving books how they're doing it all wrong, though. I never quite get tired of it.


This. A thousand times this. Seriously. Either you care about selling and you pay attention to people who are , or you don't and then you have the freedom to put whatever you so please in your cover/book. But then you don't get to make threads complaining about why you're not selling.

This doesn't mean that maybe all best-sellers are doing everything right, but it does mean you should look at overall trends and what the market is doing. Or not. But then IMHO you don't get to say "Why am I not selling books?".

Selling books and covers isn't what you like, it's not even about what readers say they like, it's about what they BUY.


----------



## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

i only read the first post in this thread and actually find the question confusing, because there are "faces" on both sets of covers.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

Melody Simmons said:


> I started the thread and it is nothing against the author. In fact he will rather get good publicity from the thread. I study book covers and the market all the time, to see what works and what is "in." I was fascinated by the change in covers, especially since in the past I have seen the advice on Kboards that faces do not sell well on thriller covers. I wanted to know if this is the new direction that thriller covers are taking...


Yeah, Blake is a bestselling author. So studying his covers, as well as the covers of other bestselling authors, is always a good education for those of us who want to move up the food chain.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> Women like women on covers because they identify with them - see themselves in the model. I know because I do too! And they like men on covers because well - they are attracted to them. So both sexes work for women, but usually men do not like men on covers - they prefer only women, or no models. *Disclaimer* This does not include of course those with different sexual orientations - gay or bisexual etc, and there are always some exceptions to rules or generalisations...


So then there is no real way to 'feminize' a cover with certain gender stock photo or faces etc.. I guess. That's how it looks to me, you just said, both work. It can't really be analysed. It's just not logical. Basically, I wish it was clear that you better use women on covers for thriller genre or just men etc. But it's not that simple. And it won't be ever, figured out.. All designers can do is try to make best cover and test.

And as long as it's not a nude guy on the cover,as a guy, I can read that book... who cares honestly.. naked dudes do make me look away


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> Yeah, Blake is a bestselling author. So studying his covers, as well as the covers of other bestselling authors, is always a good education for those of us who want to move up the food chain.


Not really. There are too much moving variables in play. Reviews, blurb, Amazon recommendations, search results on Amazon and where the book ranks, loyal following etc.. It's not as simple as just the book cover. If it was they would look the same and we designers would always make the same covers.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

RBC said:


> Not really. There are too much moving variables in play. Reviews, blurb, Amazon recommendations, search results on Amazon and where the book ranks, loyal following etc.. It's not as simple as just the book cover. If it was they would look the same and we designers would always make the same covers.


I agree. Oh, and covers don't matter for many erotica authors. They're moving books without fancy covers.


----------



## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Melody Simmons said:


> This article on his site does say his sales were poor until he changed covers though (although the article is about another series of his):
> 
> russellblake.com/judging-books/


There have been three sets (so far). And he was already selling a ton with the first set in your OP. One of those covers was even featured on the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303640604579298604044404682










So it's incorrect to insinuate he wasn't selling well until he switched to the second set you posted. He was already very successful with the first covers when he changed to the second set.

The only real take-away for me is that even if you're successful keep testing, keep tweaking, keep trying new things to see if it leads to more sales. Even with Russell's great success, he decided to try something new with updated covers.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> I agree. Oh, and covers don't matter for many erotica authors. They're moving books without fancy covers.


haha

So threads like these are cool-ish but they won't give us real data. Only Amazon knows real numbers.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Alan Petersen said:


> The only real take-away for me is that even if you're successful keep testing, keep tweaking, keep trying new things to see if it leads to more sales. Even with Russell's great success, he decided to try something new with updated covers.


+1000!

As a designer I wish Authors would only use my covers and use the forever.  But truth is that it's best to test them. With the same designer or different one.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Second ones with the man on shout thriller. Wouldn't give the top ones a second glance.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

RBC said:


> +1000!
> 
> As a designer I wish Authors would only use my covers and use the forever.  But truth is that it's best to test them. With the same designer or different one.


For my non-erotica stuff I plan on sticking with my cover designer until she ditches me or one of us dies.


----------



## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

vlmain said:


> I prefer the original covers. The title stands out better and I especially like the assassin's target in the cross hairs.


Yeah, I like the first ones, too. I don't want any pre-conceived notions about how a character looks, or their age. The second ones seem "romance" to me, or romantic suspense.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

RBC said:


> haha
> 
> So threads like these are cool-ish but they won't give us real data. Only Amazon knows real numbers.


No - I learn a lot from cover threads, from authors' and cover designers' opinions. What would you rather discuss on the Kboards?


----------



## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

RBC said:


> +1000!
> 
> As a designer I wish Authors would only use my covers and use the forever.  But truth is that it's best to test them. With the same designer or different one.


That's why Russell is da-man! Not one to rest on his laurels. It's too bad he doesn't post here anymore, but folks, go check his blog and sign up to his list. Good stuff.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

Melody Simmons said:


> You may have your opinions but the point is these books are SELLING. Check the sales rankings.


Of course they are. He's a popular author and people obviously like what he writes. Doesn't stop the covers from all being way too samey. Besides, at this point in his career I strongly doubt covers are a major factor in sales.

This just goes right back to the oft-repeated fallacy that just because a book or author sells well, everything about it must be working. X must know blurbs; look how he sells. Y must know covers; look how she sells. Everyone's doing Z, it must be right. Sales numbers are the end result of many complex forces, and success breeds success.

I don't doubt, however, that Blake is following trends and decided, in terms of overall design, the old style was looking too dated. To which I'd have to agree; the new one has much cleaner typography and is more eye-catching. I just think that could have been accomplished in a way that made the covers each feel a little bit more unique.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> No - I learn a lot from cover threads, from authors' and cover designers' opinions. What would you rather discuss on the Kboards?


Marketing principles etc. Email list building, new distribution channels etc.

Covers are too subjective and we have no freakin' clue what Amazon is doing with it's ranking to push some books etc. How can we be sure some cover on a book didn't 'perform better' just because author said he didn't change anything? Maybe there was someone pushing his book without him actually knowing it? Or Amazon changing algorythms etc. It's just too much moving pieces here.

I mean just look at this thread. People prefer covers for many different reasons. It is impossible to make one that appeals to everyone.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> For my non-erotica stuff I plan on sticking with my cover designer until she ditches me or one of us dies.


Lol.. good, you can still experiment. I bet the designer would like it too.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Alan Petersen said:


> That's why Russell is da-man! Not one to rest on his laurels. It's too bad he doesn't post here anymore, but folks, go check his blog and sign up to his list. Good stuff.


Yeah, he has good stuff. Not be-all-end-all but very good stuff.


----------



## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

RBC said:


> Marketing principles etc. Email list building, new distribution channels etc.
> 
> Covers are too subjective and we have no freakin' clue what Amazon is doing with it's ranking to push some books etc. How can we be sure some cover on a book didn't 'perform better' just because author said he didn't change anything? Maybe there was someone pushing his book without him actually knowing it? Or Amazon changing algorythms etc. It's just too much moving pieces here.
> 
> I mean just look at this thread. People prefer covers for many different reasons. It is impossible to make one that appeals to everyone.


Yes, this thread cracks me up, it's a great example of subjectivity. It's back and forth, I don't like the first set, I like the second set much better... then... I don't like the second set, I like the first set much better, back and forth. 

For what it's worth, I think you made a great point earlier on the font. The font of the second set of covers on your covers, now that would have been an interesting test!

Successful marketers test every little detail in their sales message. But I think it would be hard on covers, since we don't know what Amazon is doing behind the scenes. The only way would be to swap back to the old covers and see if sales take a dip to really see the impact of changing covers. Too complicated for me.


----------



## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Yep, cover trends are always changing, in general and within genres. If you want to stay relevant and keep sales up, you've got to experiment with your covers now and then, to either keep up with the changes or to try to spark a new trend.  A little experimentation in this regard is usually a good thing. I'm doing new covers for my Egyptian books soon... excited!


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

Alan Petersen said:


> Yes, this thread cracks me up, it's a great example of subjectivity. It's back and forth, I don't like the first set, I like the second set much better... then... I don't like the second set, I like the first set much better, back and forth.
> 
> For what it's worth, I think you made a great point earlier on the font. The font of the second set of covers on your covers, now that would have been an interesting test!
> 
> Successful marketers test every little detail in their sales message. But I think it would be hard on covers, since we don't know what Amazon is doing behind the scenes. The only way would be to swap back to the old covers and see if sales take a dip to really see the impact of changing covers. Too complicated for me.


Yup, it's just crazy subjective. 

And yeah, one simple detail can be huge. At the point I worked with Russell he didn't want to change font. After some time, he did. And that was a good decision to change them.


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Melody Simmons said:


> No - I learn a lot from cover threads, from authors' and cover designers' opinions. What would you rather discuss on the Kboards?


So do I. Discuss them all you like!


----------



## Debbie Bennett (Mar 25, 2011)

It may be all subjectivity, but I learn so much from reading these kind of discussions. We may be mostly writers, but we are all readers too and I find all the different opinions on what works/doesn't work (for them) fascinating.


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> Selling books and covers isn't what you like, it's not even about what readers say they like, it's about what they BUY.


THIS. Readers lie through their teeth about why they do or don't buy stuff because they lie to themselves.


----------



## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

ʬ said:


> THIS. Readers lie through their teeth about why they do or don't buy stuff because they lie to themselves.


I don't think they're lying as much as they don't realize the cognitive dissonance.


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

Lummox JR said:


> This just goes right back to the oft-repeated fallacy that just because a book or author sells well, everything about it must be working. X must know blurbs; look how he sells. Y must know covers; look how she sells. Everyone's doing Z, it must be right. Sales numbers are the end result of many complex forces, and success breeds success.


And how do you think he got there in the first place? Bunnies? No, it was smart business acumen and an ability to know what works -- oh and he wrote damn good books. If people spent less time criticizing best-sellers and more time learning from them, maybe we'd still have people like Russell on Kboards and fewer threads complaining of why aren't my books selling.


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> And how do you think he got there in the first place? Bunnies? No, it was smart business acumen and an ability to know what works -- oh and write damn good books. If people spent less time criticizing best-sellers and more time learning from them, maybe we'd still have people like Russell on Kboards and fewer threads complaining of why aren't my books selling.


I <3 you right now.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Yep, cover trends are always changing, in general and within genres. If you want to stay relevant and keep sales up, you've got to experiment with your covers now and then, to either keep up with the changes or to try to spark a new trend.  A little experimentation in this regard is usually a good thing. I'm doing new covers for my Egyptian books soon... excited!


I look forward to seeing your new covers, EL Hawk! (Although, I love your current ones.) You're not as cocky as some of the people on here. (It's interesting to watch how cocky some people get when they start selling.) So since you seem pretty cool, I genuinely hope you make it big.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> I look forward to seeing your new covers, EL Hawk! (Although, I love your current ones.) You're not as cocky as some of the people on here. (It's interesting to watch how cocky some people get when they start selling.) So since you seem pretty cool, I genuinely hope you make it big.


Agreed, the lack of humility among many artists when they find a level of success is utterly nauseating. I've made it a point to remain grounded, no matter what, and to stay in my own lane.


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Not any more or less than "cocky" I ever was.  I said months and months ago that $50k a year isn't acceptable for me.  I would be working for less than a dollar an hour take-home pay at that.  

...And I was making that three months in.

$50k a month?  Yeah, that's a number to start to make me smile.    But that's not the end.  That's the start.  That's not even year one.

I'm not in this to be cute or play games or stoke my ego.  I'm here to write books that people are dying to read, that they force their friends to read, that they can't stop talking about.  And I'm here to get those books in front of those people so that they'll buy them in the first place.  Hence having covers that sell actually matters.

This is also CAREER one.  I'm rolling out my second penname in February.  And I'm going to do exactly the same again in a genre where that supposedly doesn't happen.

Third one?  Got someone lined up for September of next year.

Fourth?  2016 to 2017.

I'll let you know how "lucky" I am with those.

The "lack of humility" of about a dozen other people who sell really well taught me what I needed to know to get to where I am.  So thanks, all you arrogant people who wrote insanely helpful posts and then mostly stopped coming here.  Thanks, SM.  Thanks, Mimi.  Thanks, Russell.  Thanks, Holly.  Thanks, Elle.

Thank every one of you for being so "arrogant" as to explain what works and what doesn't.  Thanks for cutting through the nonsense.  And thanks for giving me such a jump start.  Such a shame you left because other people attack EXPERTISE as "arrogance" and "cockiness."


----------



## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Lummox JR said:


> I agree on the typography, but I don't feel the second set gets away from the "too similar" problem. Honestly I dislike both sets, meaning no disrespect to the author, because the covers within each set are way too same-y. While the second is slightly more dynamic, it's ultimately the same model in the same clothes in the same background with the same color cast. There's literally nothing else going on between each cover other than a change of title and pose, and by the third one it starts to look silly. The first set is slightly more generic; the second is, by repetition, slightly goofy. To me it's a complete wash.
> 
> Compare to his Jet covers that were posted elsewhere in the thread. Those two covers look different in substance while still carrying a very, very strong sense of consistency.


I'm not saying the new covers are perfect or that they couldn't use with some more differentiation. Just that I feel they stand apart a bit more than the old covers. Yes, both new and old covers are nothing when compared to his fantastic Jet covers, but that's neither here nor there. The question was about the covers for The Assassin Series.



JV said:


> Agreed, the lack of humility among many artists when they find a level of success is utterly nauseating. I've made it a point to remain grounded, no matter what, and to stay in my own lane.


To be fair, it seems a lot of the "lack of humility" actually comes when those who have found success get sick and tired of being told by people who aren't as successful what they're doing wrong.


----------



## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

ʬ said:


> Not any more or less than "cocky" I ever was. I said months and months ago that $50k a year isn't acceptable for me. I would be working for less than a dollar an hour take-home pay at that.
> 
> ...And I was making that three months in.
> 
> ...


BOOOM!


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> And how do you think he got there in the first place? Bunnies? No, it was smart business acumen and an ability to know what works -- oh and he wrote damn good books. If people spent less time criticizing best-sellers and more time learning from them, maybe we'd still have people like Russell on Kboards and fewer threads complaining of why aren't my books selling.


Exactly!


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

ʬ said:


> The "lack of humility" of about a dozen other people who sell really well taught me what I needed to know to get to where I am. So thanks, all you arrogant people who wrote insanely helpful posts and then mostly stopped coming here. Thanks, SM. Thanks, Mimi. Thanks, Russell. Thanks, Holly. Thanks, Elle.
> 
> Thank every one of you for being so "arrogant" as to explain what works and what doesn't. Thanks for cutting through the nonsense. And thanks for giving me such a jump start. Such a shame you left because other people attack EXPERTISE as "arrogance" and "cockiness."


I miss you guys too. Well said, _WW_. They always gave honest answers about what works and doesn't work. It's why my books sell at all. I learned from the best.


----------



## Douglas E Wright (Mar 11, 2011)

I don't care for the newer covers. I did look at them first, probably because of a face, but then I looked at the top level. I like them a lot more. It likely has to do with the different colors, because I didn't actually go and see what the images are. So there you have it, I'm like a crow. I like shiny sparkly things!


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

ʬ said:


> Not any more or less than "cocky" I ever was. I said months and months ago that $50k a year isn't acceptable for me. I would be working for less than a dollar an hour take-home pay at that.
> 
> ...And I was making that three months in.
> 
> ...


If you're attempting to quote me you're doing so incorrectly as I was not addressing anyone in particular (I assume that's what you were attempting to do since you put my words in quotations in your post). Nor was I referencing the names you mentioned as I don't know who 3/4's of them are. Really, let's not turn this into another contentious thread, especially for lack of understanding, k? Thanks.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> And how do you think he got there in the first place? Bunnies? No, it was smart business acumen and an ability to know what works -- oh and he wrote damn good books. If people spent less time criticizing best-sellers and more time learning from them, maybe we'd still have people like Russell on Kboards and fewer threads complaining of why aren't my books selling.


I've not seen this on this thread. Several people have noted that Russell could put out whatever cover he wanted and still sell truckloads. I look forward to the day that I receive that level of criticism, but do not expect it ever to arrive. Just to let you sleep well at night I will inform you that I won't start threads about why my books aren't selling as I do not think that I have an entitlement to sell books. Readers will determine whether I sell books and meantime I will keep following Hugh Howey's advice to just keep writing regardless of whether anyone but me reads them.

This thread has been useful to me as it drove me to his sight (where I could not find the linked article) but I did find an article about the German designs (which he adores) and through that got a free download of a Jet prequel. Now to find the time to read it and my still unread Assassin freebie.

NB: the above stress reducing warning did not involve any damage to either sperm whales or bowls of petunias


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> I'm not saying the new covers are perfect or that they couldn't use with some more differentiation. Just that I feel they stand apart a bit more than the old covers. Yes, both new and old covers are nothing when compared to his fantastic Jet covers, but that's neither here nor there. The question was about the covers for The Assassin Series.
> 
> To be fair, it seems a lot of the "lack of humility" actually comes when those who have found success get sick and tired of being told by people who aren't as successful what they're doing wrong.


Well, that's also not what I was talking about. I have no patience for self-professed know-it-all's from either side, I do my own thing and what I do works. I've no interest in telling people how they should or shouldn't write and I can definitely see where having someone attempt to do so would cause this sort of problem.


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

JV said:


> Well, that's also not what I was talking about. I have no patience for self-professed know-it-all's from either side, I do my own thing and what I do works. I've no interest in telling people how they should or shouldn't write and I can definitely see where having someone attempt to do so would cause this sort of problem.


That's fine. People can do what they please, but all too often people come to Kboards SEEKING advice. In fact, I'd argue that's kind of the whole point of the board.

And personally know-it-alls have helped me achieve the very small success I have so far. So.....


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Douglas E Wright said:


> I don't care for the newer covers. I did look at them first, probably because of a face, but then I looked at the top level. I like them a lot more. It likely has to do with the different colors, because I didn't actually go and see what the images are. So there you have it, I'm like a crow. I like shiny sparkly things!


Do you realize what you just said? *I looked at them first.* Holy moley!  Maybe that's why covers with people on tend to sell books better (at least in my experience). The human eye is drawn towards shiny things...but towards human beings first. I mean, we sort of need to be aware of the people around us, what good or harm they can do us, etc., right?

And the point of covers is literally first of all to draw the eye. Then to give a hint what the story's about, etc.

Lots to think about! :-D


----------



## Douglas E Wright (Mar 11, 2011)

HSh said:


> Do you realize what you just said? *I looked at them first.* Holy moley!  Maybe that's why covers with people on tend to sell books better (at least in my experience). The human eye is drawn towards shiny things...but towards human beings first. I mean, we sort of need to be aware of the people around us, what good or harm they can do us, etc., right?
> 
> And the point of covers is literally first of all to draw the eye. Then to give a hint what the story's about, etc.
> 
> Lots to think about! :-D


Now if we place a colorful cover along with a person's face, well hell's bells, we should all make it big sooner than later!


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> That's fine. People can do what they please, but all too often people come to Kboards SEEKING advice. In fact, I'd argue that's kind of the whole point of the board.
> 
> And personally know-it-alls have helped me achieve the very small success I have so far. So.....


Again, you're misunderstanding me. IF people are seeking advice, GREAT. If people are sharing their advice and the insight, GREAT. That is NOT what I'm talking about. A know-it-all would be someone coming into a thread, that was made to offer subjective advice and personal insight, only to disagree with the OP and tell them they're wrong, which happens a lot on here, that's what I'm referring to; hard lines in the sand on subjective issues.

Russell Blake had great insight. He gave great advice. Yet know-it-all's were constantly bombing his threads to tell him he was wrong when he was simply offering his subjective opinion and what has worked for him. I personally didn't agree with him on viewing writing as a business. Still don't. But I never bombed his threads or got my feelings hurt because he happened to disagree with me.

That's what I'm saying. Hopefully that clarifies where I'm coming from.


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

JV said:


> Again, you're misunderstanding me. IF people are seeking advice, GREAT. If people are sharing their advice and the insight, GREAT. That is NOT what I'm talking about. A know-it-all would be someone coming into a thread, that was made to offer subjective advice and personal insight, only to disagree with the OP and tell them they're wrong, which happens a lot on here, that's what I'm referring to; hard lines in the sand on subjective issues.
> 
> Russell Blake had great insight. He gave great advice. Yet know-it-all's were constantly bombing his threads to tell him he was wrong when he was simply offering his subjective opinion and what has worked for him. I personally didn't agree with him on viewing writing as a business. Still don't. But I never bombed his threads or got my feelings hurt because he happened to disagree with me.
> 
> That's what I'm saying. Hopefully that clarifies where I'm coming from.


If people are offering bad advice then I think yeah, someone should speak up. If I came into a dentists forum and said really you should eat as much candy as possible and never brush your teeth I would HOPE someone would call me on it.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Douglas E Wright said:


> Now if we place a colorful cover along with a person's face, well hell's bells, we should all make it big sooner than later!


It's a fuckin' whirwind of color and faces now, baby!


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> If people are offering bad advice then I think yeah, someone should speak up. If I came into a dentists forum and said really you should eat as much candy as possible and never brush your teeth I would HOPE someone would call me on it.


But again, I don't really see tons of "bad advice" on here. Tooth care is medical...that's much more objective. The craft of writing is subjective so bad advice or good advice, it's a matter of opinion. Unless someone is saying, "You should type with a hammer" or "Or write blindfolded" I don't see the need for the amount of contention on these boards.


----------



## Douglas E Wright (Mar 11, 2011)

HSh said:


> It's a [expletive]in' whirwind of color and faces now, baby!


Shiny foil colors behind faces. Man, don't stop me now!


----------



## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

There are way too many people getting offended by personal opinions in this thread. Nobody is telling anybody what to do. A question was asked and a community is giving their opinions, and I think most have been respectful. I asked about my new covers and some people had critical things to say and I'm totally cool with that.

To be fair, maybe this thread isn't Kosher since the author in question didn't ask for cover input, but Russell is so far up the food chain that I think he'll be okay.

As far as people getting offended by personal opinion, just keep in mind that *selling books* is not the *only* measure of success. Art is crazy and subjective and, believe it or not, people do it for different reasons.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I want to type with a hammer now. 

Thanks, JV.  

I hope this thread doesn't get locked.  I find it very interesting to discuss cover art issues.  I mean, there's so many ways to get it wrong.  Personally I love premades and hiring cover artists, but it doesn't always work out.  Sometimes I have to make my own and the more information I have the better!


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

JV said:


> But again, I don't really see tons of "bad advice" on here. Tooth care is medical...that's much more objective. The craft of writing is subjective so bad advice or good advice, it's a matter of opinion. Unless someone is saying, "You should type with a hammer" or "Or write blindfolded" I don't see the need for the amount of contention on these boards.


Writing, yes is subjective.

Selling books. Not really. There's a metric for that.

If you don't want to sell books, or if that's not your main goal ,that's fine. You may even manage to sell some books in spite of that being your main goal. Maybe even a lot. But it can be damaging to someone's career if they come on here and ask "How do I sell more books" and get bad advice. That's lost income.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> Writing, yes is subjective.
> 
> Selling book. Not really.
> 
> ...


I'd agree there are clear cut ways to measure success.

As far as there being clear cut ways of getting there, not so much. I can give you countless examples of two people doing the exact same thing and experiencing opposite results. There are fellow authors in my publishing house that have written books that are just as good as mine, same genre, they've had the exact same marketing, and they've moved a fraction of the units I have; no rhyme or reason.

There are indie authors here on KBOARDS that have gone through the exact same steps to market themselves and get their names out...some sell extremely well, some spiral into oblivion.

So I, personally, don't agree that there's any clear cut way to move books. It's a mystery. But yes, of course, measuring "success" is easy if we're talking money in the bank.


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

JV said:


> I'd agree there are clear cut ways to measure success.
> 
> As far as there being clear cut ways of getting there, not so much. I can give you countless examples of two people doing the exact same thing and experiencing opposite results. There are fellow authors in my publishing house that have written books that are just as good as mine, same genre, they've had the exact same marketing, and they've moved a fraction of the units I have; no rhyme or reason.
> 
> ...


There's no 100% assurance for anything. But that doesn't mean that we can take a look at trends etc what is selling and not come up with very educated guesses. And I firmly believe that guesses clearly informed by data (say sales figures) of not just one best-selling author, but many are better than guesses made not informed by that data.


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

JV said:


> exact same steps to market themselves and get their names out...


In terms of self-publishers... how do you know they are doing the exact same steps as other authors?


----------



## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

KJC said:


> In terms of self-publishers... how do you know they are doing the exact same steps as other authors?


Yep! And sometimes the things that will shift books are very subtle. Catagories, for instance, can make or break a book.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

KJC said:


> In terms of self-publishers... how do you know they are doing the exact same steps as other authors?


I'm going based off what's been said on the boards and based off of self published authors that I know personally. I'm also going based off the hunch that what's true in trade publishing holds true in the indie world; one size does not fit all.



Sylvia R. Frost said:


> There's no 100% assurance for anything. But that doesn't mean that we can take a look at trends etc what is selling and not come up with very educated guesses. And I firmly believe that guesses clearly informed by data (say sales figures) of not just one best-selling author, but many are better than guesses made not informed by that data.


The thing is I don't see any hard data for this. If I'm wrong feel free to point me in its direction.

I've seen and heard wildly different suggestions made by successful indies; what worked for one didn't work for the other, and so on and so forth.

A fine example is Bookbub...the indie author Mecca. I know people that have pulled a lump of coal out of that supposed diamond mine. Others have regaled the boards with tales of rolling in the Benjamins after a Bookbub run.

Like I said, if someone has compiled a hard recipe for success feel free to enlighten me, I'm always happy to be wrong. But, I've been in the writing business for close to 10 years in some form or fashion and have yet to see it.


----------



## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

The old covers look okay. Professional, good branding, clearly communicate genre. But as someone who rarely reads thrillers, I would never pick those up. The newer set, on the other hand, I would pick up. Yes, there's the hot guy influence but I'm not much of a romance reader either, so sexy guys on covers aren't a huge draw for me. It's more the fact that a human face on every cover hints the book is character based. And characters are what draw me to books.


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2014)

ʬ said:


> The "lack of humility" of about a dozen other people who sell really well taught me what I needed to know to get to where I am. So thanks, all you arrogant people who wrote insanely helpful posts and then mostly stopped coming here. Thanks, SM. Thanks, Mimi. Thanks, Russell. Thanks, Holly. Thanks, Elle.


SM, Mimi, Russell, Holly and Elle are not arrogant. Russell can get a bit cantankerous at times, but he's honest, and I respect that. (I'd have a drink with him any day of the week.) And Holly? Holly is my girl. I love her.


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

JV said:


> I'm going based off what's been said on the boards and based off of self published authors that I know personally.


In another respective career, I have people I work with tell me they've done everything they can XYZ. They insist they have tried it all, and nothing works. Only to find upon closer inspection that try means 'do once, didn't work, give up' -- or even 'do three times, didn't work, give up' 

I'm sure there are exceptions, I'm not saying there isn't


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

KJC said:


> In another respective career, I have people I work with tell me they've done everything they can XYZ. They insist they have tried it all, and nothing works. Only to find upon closer inspection that try means 'do once, didn't work, give up' -- or even 'do three times, didn't work, give up'
> 
> I'm sure there are exceptions, I'm not saying there isn't


I personally believe one size doesn't fit all in writing, especially in terms of sell, from my perspective it's more the rule than the exception. But, like I said, if someone ever puts together a hard sheet of evidence that turns the subjective art of selling books into an objective one I'll be the first one flaunting it to the masses and consuming its knowledge...if what I'm doing stops working for me of course.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> And personally know-it-alls have helped me achieve the very small success I have so far. So.....


There is a big difference between a person who is knowledgeable and a know-it-all. I appreciate the wisdom of those with experience and I have also learned a lot from them. However, looking back over my lifetime, I can't remember ever learning anything of value from a know-it-all.


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

JV said:


> I personally believe one size doesn't fit all in writing, especially in terms of sell, from my perspective it's more the rule than the exception.


There isn't in my career either, but there's typically something else a person can be doing or trying. We get burnt out when the things we try don't work. The point is not to give up... *shrug*. Obviously not all people can have the edge on selling books. Just like in society, not all people can be middle class...

Although they should be.  But that's another talk for another forum.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

KJC said:


> There isn't in my career either, but there's typically something else a person can be doing or trying. We get burnt out when the things we try don't work. The point is not to give up... *shrug*. Obviously not all people can have the edge on selling books. Just like in society, not all people can be middle class...
> 
> Although they should be.  But that's another talk for another forum.


Oh, totally agree, and yes, everyone should be middle class, AT LEAST. Proud socialist here...and I live in Texas. I'm like a unicorn in these parts.


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

As for the older covers....

UP CLOSE, they actually look really interesting and modern.  In a bookstore, I think they'd work, especially with a better font.  IN THE THUMBNAILS, so much of the detail gets lost that they just look like crosshairs that aren't all that interesting, and they look like every action books from the 1990s and 1980s.  There's a figure, but it could be any figure, even a silhouette.

(Psst:  Silhouettes usually don't sell.)

Books sell at a small cover size.

I think his other example sold better because it told something about the PROTAGONIST, which is who most people read for.  Protagonist in an action pose + money would, I think, sell even better because it would tell more about what the story was.

I would not actually commit a major felony for those German JET covers.  But I would contemplate one.

I would have gone for something different than his final choice.  It's a commercial improvement over the first set in thumbnails, though, hands down.


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

JV said:


> Nor was I referencing the names you mentioned as I don't know who 3/4's of them are. Really, let's not turn this into another contentious thread, especially for lack of understanding, k? Thanks.


Exactly. And you're the poorer for it.

You think you should make a living at this because everyone deserves to make a living. And you think that you have a right not to be made to feel bad about any of your choices. That's pretty much all that has to be known to predict how well it will work out for you.

Want it? Earn it. No one has given any of us anything.

It's not "all subjective." I have a sales graph that tells me how many books I'm moving. There's nothing that could be less subjective about that.


----------



## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

JV said:


> I personally believe one size doesn't fit all in writing, especially in terms of sell, from my perspective it's more the rule than the exception. But, like I said, if someone ever puts together a hard sheet of evidence that turns the subjective art of selling books into an objective one I'll be the first one flaunting it to the masses and consuming its knowledge...if what I'm doing stops working for me of course.


Russell did that. SM did that. Elle did that. AND THEY WERE ALL RIGHT.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

ʬ said:


> Exactly. And you're the poorer for it.
> 
> You think you should make a living at this because everyone deserves to make a living. And you think that you have a right not to be made to feel bad about any of your choices. That's pretty much all that has to be known to predict how well it will work out for you.
> 
> ...


Okay, first off, tone it down and stop talking like you know me, you don't, so back up.

I do this gig full time. Its worked out quite well for me. I've been writing professionally in some capacity for almost 10 years. You can put away the crystal ball now.

I'm not "the poorer for it". I'll be okay. Thanks for your concern.

Also, where did I say everyone should make a living at writing?

Your sales chart is YOUR sales chart. It's not applicable to anyone else. You essentially made my point.

If you want to have a conversation with me, approach me civilly and drop the attitude. Otherwise feel free to move on.


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

ʬ said:


> Russell did that. SM did that. Elle did that. AND THEY WERE ALL RIGHT.


3 people's personal sales tactics doesn't write the book. No one said they don't give good advice. But, it's still, by definition, subjective.


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I can vouch for Russell, SM, and Elle's tactics working like a charm, not that they need vouching for.  I can also vouch for doing covers that fit genre and reader expectation. Following their advice and changing up covers/moving to very professional/genre-branded/modern covers took me from earning 50 bucks a month to earning 5 figures a month.

Which is to say, don't knock stuff until you've tried it if it is demonstrably working for others (and, of course, if the kind of success someone has with their own advice is the kind of success you want).


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

ㅈㅈ said:


> I can vouch for Russell, SM, and Elle's tactics working like a charm, not that they need vouching for. I can also vouch for doing covers that fit genre and reader expectation. Following their advice and changing up covers/moving to very professional/genre-branded/modern covers took me from earning 50 bucks a month to earning 5 figures a month.
> 
> Which is to say, don't knock stuff until you've tried it if it is demonstrably working for others (and, of course, if the kind of success someone has with their own advice is the kind of success you want).


I can vouch for them too. What they do works. I'm not disagreeing with any of you. Their tactics work. They give great advice. Sometime I've disagreed with them. If I were just starting out though (I'm not) I would soak up everything that had to say. They were extremely gracious in sharing their insight. The only thing I contended is that one size does not fit all. Hardly a point to argue. It's just my opinion.

Peace people. Let's keep this train on the tracks and share thoughts civilly.

W
W: same to you. I want to remain civil. I've seen people treat you nasty over your success and I've been on your side. I've no interest in fighting about this. I think you have good points. No, I don't agree with all of them. But let's try to disagree civilly.


----------



## Revolution (Sep 17, 2012)

The bottom ones. Love the colour scheme. The top appears amateurish


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Douglas E Wright said:


> I don't care for the newer covers. I did look at them first, probably because of a face, but then I looked at the top level. I like them a lot more. It likely has to do with the different colors, because I didn't actually go and see what the images are. So there you have it, I'm like a crow. I like shiny sparkly things!


Actually if one browses hundreds upon hundreds of ebooks then after a while I think the covers do need to really have some colour or some high contrast or light effect or bright font to still grab one's attention...


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Melody Simmons said:


> Actually if one browses hundreds upon hundreds of ebooks then after a while I think the covers do need to really have some colour or some high contrast or light effect or bright font to still grab one's attention...


I'm a big fan of the above, bright colours etc. but then it also suits my YA genre.

I have to say that as a reader I don't like the covers with exactly the same model on the cover in a variety of poses because it makes me feel that the story hasn't moved forward from book to book. The covers in the original post tell me that the lead male has adventures, but each one is probably complete and nothing changes for him, he just moves on to the next one and so on. That might work for some people but for me it puts me off. I like a story to develop across a series. To be fair though, both sets of covers say the same thing. I think that if you are designing for a series then one model in various poses is off-putting to readers. I think it is better to brand a series with font, and placement and stuff like that.


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2014)

Umm...

Yeah, hot boys on the cover swiveling their pistols will get more sales. Because it's implying this is a sexed up thriller for ladies to dip their mystery and intrigue as well as their hidden desires.

But I can tell you, if that's not what's in the books, then there's no point. Both of Russel's different sets of covers for his series communicate different ideas to me. The first lot are hardboiled action thrillers and the second lot are more character / romance driven plus the action.

Now. Which one of these is an accurate description of the story? There's no point in me putting shirtless hunks from the beach on my horror covers just because they sell better. There has to be some correlation between the cover and what's in the book. 

If those second set of covers represent what's in his book, then he should definitely continue with them. But if what he's written is better represented by the first set of covers he should have sticked to them. That's just my opinion anyway.


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I would not expect romance at all from either set of covers. I expect character-driven crime/thriller from them both. The second just says "modern" to me more and looks more in line with my expectations. The first says 80's action.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I really, really dislike the second lot. Intensely so. To me, they're five different poses of what is clearly an actor with monochromatic text slapped over the top. Yes, he's hot, and I think that's how the romance thing comes about.

His face is too nice. He's not dirty enough to have been in a fight. He doesn't look like he's actually using the gun (or knowing how to use it, as opposed to posing with it).

If it sells better, though... what do I know? You can only experiment until you hit something that works, only to find that it stops working two years down the track.

I DO think, though, that both sets were done by people who knew how to use Photoshop and design covers, and I don't think either is more "professional" than the other. I don't like the word "professional" being used as substitute for "taste".


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Both of Russel's different sets of covers for his series communicate different ideas to me. The first lot are hardboiled action thrillers and the second lot are more character / romance driven plus the action.
> 
> Now. Which one of these is an accurate description of the story? There's no point in me putting shirtless hunks from the beach on my horror covers just because they sell better. There has to be some correlation between the cover and what's in the book.
> 
> If those second set of covers represent what's in his book, then he should definitely continue with them. But if what he's written is better represented by the first set of covers he should have sticked to them. That's just my opinion anyway.


Yes, I 100% agree with the above.



Patty Jansen said:


> I DO think, though, that both sets were done by people who knew how to use Photoshop and design covers, and I don't think either is more "professional" than the other. I don't like the word "professional" being used as substitute for "taste".


Yes, +1 on this too. These points are really important.

But I don't think the guy is too pretty, I think he looks very like an actor in an action movie, so the branding is spot on for a film poster.


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Its interesting sometimes to see the different things we humans see. 

First though for me is that I don't usually dissect covers like that when I go looking for books to read. I can't recall now who said it in the thread about readers lying to themself what they like and buy and read as far as covers. Its not lying to oneself as much as I just don't think most of us readers care so much about every darn detail in a cover. Its the overall impression. That is why I don't get out of shape when a character doesn't look like end up looking in my head later. How would that even be possible, our imagination is so very different. I just don't care. I don't read the cover, I read the story. I am very good at separating the two. I also don't see myself in any characters on any cover, romance or not. Ugh, that is just creepy to me. I see the characters and then I read the story and I fell the characters. Different senses. 

As to those covers. When I first looked the the top row, I thought it was some fantasy with swords. Probably because the first book has sword in the name and all I saw was fantastical swirly thingies. I don't read fantasy so I would not have looked further. Maybe its because the covers are more blurry. 

The second row is eye catching. As someone that reads a lot of romance including romantic suspense, I do not see any romance whatsoever in those covers. None. Zero. I see action dude. Action Thriller is what I assume. Shoot em up action guys with character description. Kind of like the movies of late 80's and early nineties with Stallone, Willies, Van Damme etc. Still love those movies, do not like "modern" action movies. 

Just because there is a guy on a cover doesn't mean we womens start frothing at the mouth at every turn. Doesn't mean I see romance or I get all hot and bothered. Some of those comments are just a tad offensive to be honest. 

With the second row of covers I can get an idea of what it is I am looking at, I can't with the first row as much. I don't care if the same guy is on each cover, which I didn't really pay attention too. I never ever see all covers of all series I read all at the same time. Never. So I'll see one book in the store, get interested, find out whats first and go and read. 

My reader world does not evolve around one author or one series. There would be different stuff read in between. 

I just don't over analyze covers that much. But first for me is I have to know what genre I am looking at. That is #1. It has to be professional. If you don't get my eyeballs on it and don't convey somehow a mood, a genre a trope to me, then I move on to something else.


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2014)

vlmain said:


> There is a big difference between a person who is knowledgeable and a know-it-all. I appreciate the wisdom of those with experience and I have also learned a lot from them. However, looking back over my lifetime, I can't remember ever learning anything of value from a know-it-all.


+1



JV said:


> Peace people. Let's keep this train on the tracks and share thoughts civilly.


If you give off the impression you're not interested in success that's easy to attack. (I don't know anything about you. So I'm NOT saying that's you OR not you.)

I am interested in success. So if you're a diva, you had better be prepared to share the stage. Some of us have big goals and a *well written plan* to achieve them. So don't think for a second that just because we haven't hit it yet that we won't hit it at all.

***

I prefer Blake's first set of covers. However, I believe the cover change is a good move. Cover changes have always worked for him before.


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Atunah said:


> Its interesting sometimes to see the different things we humans see.
> 
> First though for me is that I don't usually dissect covers like that when I go looking for books to read. I can't recall now who said it in the thread about readers lying to themself what they like and buy and read as far as covers. Its not lying to oneself as much as I just don't think most of us readers care so much about every darn detail in a cover. Its the overall impression. That is why I don't get out of shape when a character doesn't look like end up looking in my head later. How would that even be possible, our imagination is so very different. I just don't care. I don't read the cover, I read the story. I am very good at separating the two. I also don't see myself in any characters on any cover, romance or not. Ugh, that is just creepy to me. I see the characters and then I read the story and I fell the characters. Different senses.
> 
> ...


Atunah, as always, your input is invaluable. I think readers and writers look at covers very differently, so thanks for weighing in on the reader's side of things--which is, of course, what counts the most.


----------



## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

I've not read through this entire thread, and I'm quite glad of it, because it looks a bit hostile up there!

I'm not really into crime thrillers, but the covers with the faces caught my eye more than the target. I only really know about choosing covers for YA, so that's what I'll talk about. For what it's worth, this is my opinion.

I don't think that it's as easy as putting a face on a cover to help sell a book, it's a lot more complex than that. It's about emulating tone, the genre, and creating a professional and eye-catching modern cover. That could mean using certain colours, it could mean using an artist instead of stock images, or it could mean font choice.

A few of my favourite covers without people on them:

http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Legend-Novel-Marie-Lu/dp/014751228X/ref=la_B004SRQ1WC_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414592850&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Coldest-Girl-Coldtown-Holly-Black-ebook/dp/B00CTMA6I8/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1414593030&sr=1-1&keywords=coldest+girl+in+coldtown

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Bone-The-Grisha-1-ebook/dp/B00C69IIVG/ref=pd_sim_b_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1J6CR0TFGMCQ6RB2AC9H

I'm not saying that switching up your covers is a bad thing, or that putting a person on the cover doesn't help, but I think it's important to remember that the tone of the cover is the most important thing. For instance, the publisher made a huge mistake when they used this cover: http://www.yaketyyaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/girl-of-fire-and-thorns-arc-cover.jpg to send out the ARCs for this book, bearing in mind that the MC is described as dark skinned and overweight. They swiftly changed it to this one after reviewers expressed annoyance: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10429092-the-girl-of-fire-and-thorns?ac=1

So just slapping a person on the cover (particularly a pretty Caucasian girl, which seems to be the norm for at least YA) isn't always the only thing that needs to be taken into consideration when choosing a cover. And it's worth mentioning that stock images are not an unlimited supply. They get recycled over and over. I recently had a few comments about my Mary Hades cover and that the stock had been used before. I personally don't think it's an issue because I did a lot with the image, but for some people it is. There are cover designers out there who work with models and photographers. Maybe we need to start thinking about doing the same thing.


----------



## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm coming to this party late, and haven't read all the pages of responses yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating but...  

I prefer the top row (original) of covers.  I think the ones with the man's face--no matter how good-looking he is-- I think they look amateurish.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Jena H said:


> I'm coming to this party late, and haven't read all the pages of responses yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating but...
> 
> I prefer the top row (original) of covers. I think the ones with the man's face--no matter how good-looking he is-- I think they look amateurish.


Wow - this thread really shows one cannot please everyone when it comes to covers!


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

JV said:


> 3 people's personal sales tactics doesn't write the book. No one said they don't give good advice. But, it's still, by definition, subjective.


I understand what you mean and agree. What works for some may not work for everyone. If it did, we'd all be best selling authors. There are certainly _best practices_, but even with that, there are no guarantees. There are too many variables.


----------



## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

vlmain said:


> I understand what you mean and agree. What works for some may not work for everyone. If it did, we'd all be best selling authors. There are certainly _best practices_, but even with that, there are no guarantees. There are too many variables.


There are variables but still - it doesn't hurt to seek opinions. Generally the people who hang on Kboards are people with experience in the ebook world. It is good to hear their opinions. I have found a lot of valuable information here. Even if there are variables, there are also a lot of similarities amongst what successful authors are doing, and the more I study covers, think about them, seek opinions of others, study the market and watch the books that are selling well, the better I get at designing covers. I don't think anyone would say - Oh, well - there are so many variables anyway so let me just slap whatever on my book...


----------



## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> +1
> 
> If you give off the impression you're not interested in success that's easy to attack. (I don't know anything about you. So I'm NOT saying that's you OR not you.)
> 
> ...


I'm purely interested in writing the best books I can write. I'm not an indie, I work in the trade world, though I came here, initially, because I followed Hugh's career and then I got to know a few people.

As far as success...I'm doing this full time, so as long as I can continue to do so that's as far as my interest really goes. I'm not a diva nor am I interested in a stage. I view what I do as art, first and foremost and am simply interested in continuing to create. The fact that I'm paid for it is a bonus. That's really the entirety of my outlook.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Melody Simmons said:


> There are variables but still - it doesn't hurt to seek opinions. Generally the people who hang on Kboards are people with experience in the ebook world. It is good to hear their opinions. I have found a lot of valuable information here. Even if there are variables, there are also a lot of similarities amongst what successful authors are doing, and the more I study covers, think about them, seek opinions of others, study the market and watch the books that are selling well, the better I get at designing covers. I don't think anyone would say - Oh, well - there are so many variables anyway so let me just slap whatever on my book...


Absolutely. We should always be studying and learning.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> I really, really dislike the second lot. Intensely so. To me, they're five different poses of what is clearly an actor with monochromatic text slapped over the top. Yes, he's hot, and I think that's how the romance thing comes about.
> 
> His face is too nice. He's not dirty enough to have been in a fight. He doesn't look like he's actually using the gun (or knowing how to use it, as opposed to posing with it).


That's part of what I had trouble articulating about my own dislike of those covers. He looks actor-y and nowhere near "rough" enough, and the color treatment over the photos is an obvious attempt to sell that look better. On a single cover you could probably get away with that, but taken as a set it starts to look really goofy. And the fact that literally the only differences are the titles and his poses just comes off as a wasted opportunity.

As Jena said, it feels amateurish. Disclaimer disclaimer best-seller knows what he's doing just my opinion blah blah blah, but when indies put out a cover like this the consensus of advice is always to make it a little more interesting. I mean if any one of us put up a set of images like this and asked for an honest opinion, people who know covers inside and out would tell us they all look too much alike, and many would point out that the model doesn't really sell that he knows a .38 from a starter pistol. (Then cagnes would post a mockup that blew the entire set away with pure awesomeness, and it'd be obvious what had been missing all along.) "Dude with gun" or "Guy in crosshairs" only goes so far on a cover anyway. The Jet covers add that bit of interesting that's missing from all of these, and they outright _scream_ action. _Those_ have the professional edge.

All that said, I still think the typography is a huge improvement to modernize the look, and the first set of covers had the exact same problem with being too samey. The only place I think they got worse was that the genre isn't as clear. Like I said, the difference is kind of a wash.


----------



## wezelrox (Jul 16, 2012)

I actually like both covers. Both of them did what you want a cover to do - make me click on it to "Look Inside."


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I like both sets of covers.  It would be my guess that he is trying to broaden his audience with the new covers.  

Personal opinion on faces on covers, I am good with them as long as the model isn't staring at the camera.


----------



## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

Both sets of covers look good to me. I think it boils down to personal taste. I do, however, agree that having a person on the cover attracts more attention. I look back on my well-worn Harry Dresden books. The first few books didn't have Dresden on the cover. The more updated covers have the same guy in the black hat, trench coat and staff and I have to admit that I do prefer those over the older ones.

I've tried to fight this fact but I've had to admit that it's true that many readers gravitate toward covers with people on them.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

vlmain said:


> I understand what you mean and agree. What works for some may not work for everyone. If it did, we'd all be best selling authors.


Sticking my philosopher's hat on - that is a logical impossibility. Russell cannot hand out a sure-fire formula to make us all as well-off as he is as his stand-out success is dependent on most authors failing to make a dent on his earnings. Russell can offer ideas on how to improve the business side of your approach (as he does on his website) but Russell will dearly hope that it does not make us all mediocre sellers as mediocre sales is all that there is for us (and him) if there is a formula with a cast-iron guarantee of equal success.


----------



## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

vlmain said:


> I understand what you mean and agree. What works for some may not work for everyone. If it did, we'd all be best selling authors. There are certainly _best practices_, but even with that, there are no guarantees. There are too many variables.


I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we can do everything that someone else does, everything down to the finest details but if what we have written doesn't strike that chord in readers so they buy and continue to buy, it won't be as effective.


----------



## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

I've read pretty much all of the thread--fascinating to see the dividing opinions.  

I think both sets of covers are sharp, engaging, and professional. Nothing wrong with either of them. In my opinion he went from excellent to excellent. (But oh, I do love his German covers!)

I'm thinking what's missing in the discussion here, from a sales and marketing perspective, is the power of change itself. Every business needs a good shakeup once in a while. Changing a cover (a restaurant's decor, a hemline, a car design) can be exactly the boost needed to either keep sales flowing at an even pace or ramp them up.  Change in itself, although risky, can bring its own reward. Laurel resting is a greater risk, methinks.  

EC, who admires Russell Blake tremendously for his book-selling acumen.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

EC Sheedy said:


> I'm thinking what's missing in the discussion here, from a sales and marketing perspective, is the power of change itself.


A very worthy point. Just looking like the brand is refreshing itself is worthwhile. While the difference between the two sets is nil for me--the second one gains some advantages and loses others--I'm sure the change alone had benefits.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Please.

Can we STOP calling "professional" what we like and"amateurish" what we don't like?

Please. It's insulting and not helpful at all.


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Patty Jansen said:


> Please.
> 
> Can we STOP calling "professional" what we like and"amateurish" what we don't like?
> 
> Please. It's insulting and not helpful at all.


I agree on that. I mean to me they both look what I call professional. 
None of those are amateurish. Do a random browse in the kindle store to see what amateurish really is. Shudders .

And the person that did the first set what I gathered posted in this thread.


----------



## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> I look forward to seeing your new covers, EL Hawk! (Although, I love your current ones.) You're not as cocky as some of the people on here. (It's interesting to watch how cocky some people get when they start selling.) So since you seem pretty cool, I genuinely hope you make it big.


Oh, I'm way cocky. It just doesn't come across all the time.  But thanks.

I like my old covers, too, but I'm trying to brand all my HF together so that you can look at any of my covers and instantly tell they're Libbie Hawker books, whether they're part of a series or not... at least with the historical fiction, that is. The literary stuff kind of targets a different audience so it can get different branding.

Obviously I won't have much control over how Lake Union does the cover on the title(s) they'll be publishing, but I can keep all my indie covers looking like they're part of a cohesive brand, which I think is a smart strategy for any author.


----------



## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Please.
> 
> Can we STOP calling "professional" what we like and"amateurish" what we don't like?
> 
> Please. It's insulting and not helpful at all.


Didn't know the word "professional" would hit a hot button. Damn words, always getting me into trouble. If there is a banana peel within a hundred miles, I'll slip on it.


----------



## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

EC Sheedy said:


> I'm thinking what's missing in the discussion here, from a sales and marketing perspective, is the power of change itself.


Very true, and I think it applies especially to Russell's situation. The biggest problem that most of us have with visibility is that folks who read our genres haven't come across our books at all. How many people are left who read ebook thrillers and haven't seen Russell's books? I'm sure there are a great many, actually, but it's probably not increasing much. His returns are bound to diminish if he keeps going after brand-new eyeballs.

Perhaps in changing his covers, folks who've already seen his work and passed on it will take a second look. Even if they don't find the new covers more appealing than the first set, they might be more receptive this time around. And yes, some folks who've seen his books before but never clicked may decide to click now, because Hawt Actionmandude.

Light maintenance like rotating covers might do a lot to help lengthen the long tail. Something we can all look forward to as our catalogs age.


----------



## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

EC Sheedy said:


> I'm thinking what's missing in the discussion here, from a sales and marketing perspective, is the power of change itself.


It wasn't missing at all - this is the comment on the first page from one of Russell's cover designers:



RBC said:


> This is why he changed the covers. Going for more female liked covers. I did the first batch he got 2nd ones after about a year or so. He had other ones before too. It's good he's testing covers. The 'faces don't sell' is true for some part of readers who prefer not to know faces in advance and want to imagine things, but for me, I like knowing those and if the expression/emotion is right, it can make or break the cover too.
> 
> The only way to know for sure, is to test. Taste is subjective.


This is the same designer a few posts later (on the 2nd page):



RBC said:


> Refreshing design helps. It looks 'new' and might catch new people. And it's done often by him so it's smart. Again, experimenting is great. That's how he might find better and better cover look.
> 
> He also refreshed his brand by using better font while I had to use the old one too. I am more of the new font fan too (altho the text treatment on the newer cover title still baffles me but it's subjective)


----------



## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Please.
> 
> Can we STOP calling "professional" what we like and"amateurish" what we don't like?
> 
> Please. It's insulting and not helpful at all.


Beg pardon, but the OP asked peoples' opinions on the covers. I think everyone here is mature enough to understand that "professional" and "amateurish" are subjective terms, as evidenced by the fact that some prefer the "old" covers and others prefer the "new" ones. In fact, this whole thread has run the gamut of opinions. I hardly think that politely expressing an honest opinion-- _as requested_-- can be considered "insulting and unhelpful."


----------



## Queen Nadine (Oct 18, 2014)

I prefer the font on the second batch but that is it. The male on the cover actually puts me off.


----------



## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Victoria J said:


> Both sets of covers look good to me. I think it boils down to personal taste. I do, however, agree that having a person on the cover attracts more attention. I look back on my well-worn Harry Dresden books. The first few books didn't have Dresden on the cover. The more updated covers have the same guy in the black hat, trench coat and staff and I have to admit that I do prefer those over the older ones.
> 
> I've tried to fight this fact but I've had to admit that it's true that many readers gravitate toward covers with people on them.


Do you mean the old UK covers? I didn't like those at all and always tried to buy the US editions with the Chris McGrath cover art. The new UK covers are much closer to the US covers and use the same art and look so much better IMO.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> Can we STOP calling "professional" what we like and"amateurish" what we don't like?
> 
> Please. It's insulting and not helpful at all.


It's not intended as an insult, nor is it synonymous with "I like that" and "I don't like that". It's being used as shorthand to explain the gestalt of the whole design, but it _is_ subjective. I suppose "generic" would be closer to the mark than "amateurish", but there's a lot of overlap to be found there. And there are times these words are really important, when people are looking for advice on what to do with a cover and want to know why something isn't quite working.


----------



## delly_xo (Oct 29, 2014)

I would go for the 2nd row, 2nd from left.  He's looking at you and it's hot and sexy and dangerous but because the gun is aimed low, it's less threatening.


----------



## Guest (Oct 30, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Oh, I'm way cocky. It just doesn't come across all the time.  But thanks.


I'm cocky, too. However, I would hate to think that humility or humbleness has gone completely out of style.



> I like my old covers, too, but I'm trying to brand all my HF together so that you can look at any of my covers and instantly tell they're Libbie Hawker books, whether they're part of a series or not... at least with the historical fiction, that is. The literary stuff kind of targets a different audience so it can get different branding.
> 
> Obviously I won't have much control over how Lake Union does the cover on the title(s) they'll be publishing, but I can keep all my indie covers looking like they're part of a cohesive brand, which I think is a smart strategy for any author.


Good luck with everything!


----------



## ThomasDiehl (Aug 23, 2014)

Shawn Kobb said:


> There definitely seems to be a gender split.
> 
> I would never think about reading the books with the newer covers because I don't read romance and that is how they read to me. Sure, there's a guy jumping about with guns, but I would never expect a serious action/thriller with those covers. That guys seems more a lover than a fighter. The first set of covers strikes me as very "Day of the Jackal" and if that was what I was after, I'd go for it.
> 
> Both sets of covers are good. They just give different impressions of the material.


Thank you. I was thoroughly confused how popular that second row seems to be here.

I find those terrible. That doesn't look like a thriller protagonist, it looks like a model posing for Playgirl magazine. It's utterly ridiculous and cheap and keeps me from going anywhere near those books.


----------



## Mystery Maven (Sep 17, 2014)

First, I'm confused why some posters have taken this thread as critical of Russell Blake. Huh. To me, it's a useful discussion on cover trends.

I also feel like an oddball, because I find the new covers more dated-looking. They remind me of cheesy 1980s movie posters. Faded posters.

The typography of the original covers doesn't look dated at all to me. But I seem to be alone in that, so I guess I'm missing something.

I'm a woman who occasionally reads action and thriller. If I find the lead character romantically appealing in any book, it's in part because he's tough. I would think this would be true for many women who enjoy thrillers. That we'd be attracted to tough guys. Not the 80s cheesy pretty boy type.

So I find it fascinating that these covers are working and selling well. It definitely gets me thinking.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

anderson_gray said:


> I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we can do everything that someone else does, everything down to the finest details but if what we have written doesn't strike that chord in readers so they buy and continue to buy, it won't be as effective.


+10


----------

