# Apple is the source of wi-fi problems



## corkyb (Apr 25, 2009)

Princeton University claims to have traced the source of the ipad wi-fi problem to Apple directly:

http://s0.2mdn.net/1833838/HP_ESS_Storage_Virtualization_TGDaily_Welcome_Ad.html?rfp=http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/49402-princeton-isolates-ipad-wifi-problems

This will be good news for Ipad users who are experiencing difficulty with connecting using the ipad. It's a wonder Princeton took the time to research this if there were only a few experiencing difficulty. I suspect this is more widespread than thought by some.

Paula ny


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I was getting ready to post something about Princeton and other Universities not allowing the iPad.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/technology/some-colleges-reject-ipad.html

Hopefully, if it's a software problem, apple will be able to fix it pretty quick. It makes much more sense than apple blaming routers for the problem.


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

I hope they come out with a fix soon then. If its just software, it shouldn't be a big deal. I'm having those same issues with my iPad, but I wonder why it doesn't affect my iPhones since they run on the same OS?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Interesting, though if it's a software thing, why did replacing THC's iPad fix his problem; plus why isn't the problem more widespread.

hsuthard, if you are having a frequent problem, you might check with the Apple store and see if they'll replace it.

Interestingly, the only WiFi connection I've had trouble with was my neighbor's Apple system (and yes, they knew I was using it--they gave me the password after their workmen cut my cable  ).  Even though I connected successfully, it bumped me off a couple of times.  I gave up finally.

Betsy


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## lmk2045 (Jun 21, 2009)

The Wi-Fi issues are obviously widespread enough in my opinion that Princeton University decided to check into it. It is nice to know that the source of problem is the iPhone 3.2 OS used on the iPad. I postponed buying 64GB model because of the issues with Wi-Fi. The 3G iPad is not an option and would be a waste of money for me since AT&T service is very poor where I live. I have successfully adopted other electronic products early, but never a first generation Apple product. I plan on waiting until the second generation and buy a more mature product.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Interesting, though if it's a software thing, why did replacing THC's iPad fix his problem; plus why isn't the problem more widespread.
> 
> hsuthard, if you are having a frequent problem, you might check with the Apple store and see if they'll replace it.
> 
> Interestingly, the only WiFi connection I've had trouble with was my neighbor's Apple system (and yes, they knew I was using it--they gave me the password after their workmen cut my cable ). Even though I connected successfully, it bumped me off a couple of times.


I had really bad problems till I reset my router to G-band only. Then things improved a lot, but I still had problems with video hesitating or stopping entirely. I haven't had any problems since my ipad was replaced.

Holly, at the Apple store they were very proactive in offering to replace my ipad. If you have a problem, I'd get an appointment and take your machine in to be looked at. If you are having dropped connections or hesitation, if you downloaded any video over wifi from the itunes store, it may have gaps or errors, view it carefully. Itunes replaced mine free after I showed the apple store people the problem.

note that the Apple store did all this even thoug I'd bought my ipad from Best Buy.

also, if you have a dual band router (if it is described as bQg or b/g/n, I'd reset you router to g only or n only.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, based on my experiences with geeks, particularly Princeton geeks, it doesn't take much to set them off.  (I'm geeky enough to have tested, for no particular reason, the range of my bluetooth keyboard.  I mean, really, am I ever going to want to type on the iPad from the next room?) But still, if it were hardware, I would really expect more people that I've talked to here and in person to have had the problem. But <shrug> who am I to disagree with Princeton? 

I've never been an early adopter before, it's kinda fun!

Betsy


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

I made an appointment at the Apple store for tomorrow morning. I just changed the settings on my router so I'll see how that affects it. I did follow Apples support doc steps which basically just reset my network settings. I'll update here tomorrow.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Keep us posted!

Betsy


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> But still, if it were hardware, I would really expect more people that I've talked to here and in person to have had the problem. But <shrug> who am I to disagree with Princeton?


That's the whole point. It's NOT the hardware, it's the software. The network stack in OS 3.2 doesn't adhere to the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol. It asks for an address, gets a lease for a specified time (let's say 3 days), and then never asks to renew the lease--which according to "the rules" it's supposed to start doing halfway to lease expiration, with increasing frequency as the expiration time nears. After the original lease has expired, the address is given out to another wireless device, but the iPad continues to use it anyway. This is where the problems set in, as duplicate IP addresses cause all matter of problems, and are often difficult to diagnose.

The problem isn't more widespread because a lot of people take their iPads different places, and leaving the range of a network and then coming back later is enough to force the device to request a new lease upon returning (which effectively be a renewal if the original lease has not expired, but that's not how it's requested). This particular problem only affects people who remain attached to the same wireless network for at least the lifetime of their address lease, and subsequently try to use the internet at the same time as the poor sap who legitimately owns the address at the time.

It only affects iPads, because the design flaw is specific to OS 3.2, and 3.2 is iPad exclusive--there is not and never will be a version for the iPod Touch or iPhone.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

geko, that is the best explanation I have heard yet and it makes complete and total sense. It should be something that they'll be able to fix with an update. Hopefully it won't take them too long to actually do it.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

(Sorry, I meant "software" in my previous post that you quoted.  I really have to stop drinking and posting.  )

OK, that's a pretty clear explanation, thanks!  

So someone who is on the same network shared with other people would have the problem--and I don't because I'm the only one on my network?  Or is the fact that my iPad gets turned off from time to time enough to keep me from having the problem?

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I wouldn't be astonished if there was more than one problem. Jst a hunch, but based on how many different varieties of experience people are having. Multiple problems are notoriously tough to diagnose, especially if some of the problems are rare or sporadic.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

http://ow.ly/1Azb4

People should also note that this is not an *iPad only* thing with these particulars universities. It also involves *iPhones*.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Actually, I believe only one University (GWU) is saying they have issues with the iPhone & iPod touch but they're not blocking them. Just that can't connect because of authorization issues.

Several Universities are blocking/banning the iPad though.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

Oh I just meant the OS issues are/were  the same/similiar with both the iPad and the iPhone.
I guess when iPhones 1st came out there were some similar issues for Universities?

Banning them sounds like a good idea to me if they are causing a problem.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

I wonder why I haven't had any problems then, I leave my wifi on permanently and in the 2 weeks I've had the iPad I have taken it outside my home network once. I never turn it completely off I just sleep it and always has a connection when I wake it.

edited to add 

I have quite a few other wireless devices on our network, tivo, my daughters ipod touch which she uses all the time texting her boyfriend lol, x-box360, PS3. The only thing that gets has wireless turned on occasionally is my iphone and the laptop. Those 2 are only occasionally on our wireless network.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

I haven't had any problems with mine either.
However, the good reviews and all the great things the iPad does better than other devices etc seldom get posted here.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

Well I'm just trying to figure out if the problem is with failure to renew leases, I'd think I should be having the problem, given that I have only used mine off my home network once in the two weeks. But maybe I'm misunderstanding, this is a realm of computer stuff I don't have any experience with.


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> So someone who is on the same network shared with other people would have the problem--and I don't because I'm the only one on my network? Or is the fact that my iPad gets turned off from time to time enough to keep me from having the problem?


Yes, if no one else joins the wireless network while the iPad is using an address after the lease expiration (or if they do, but get a different address), the problem will never pop up. And of course, power cycling also works around the issue.



Sugar said:


> People should also note that this is not an *iPad only* thing with these particulars universities. It also involves *iPhones*.


That article says nothing of the kind. The DHCP problem is exclusive to the iPad (or more accurately, to OS 3.2). Apparently the iPhone OS as a whole cannot utilize their authentication protocol, so some network resources will not be accessible from an iPad, iPod Touch or iPhone, because the user isn't logged in. But that's a completely separate issue.



Rasputina said:


> Well I'm just trying to figure out if the problem is with failure to renew leases, I'd think I should be having the problem, given that I have only used mine off my home network once in the two weeks. But maybe I'm misunderstanding, this is a realm of computer stuff I don't have any experience with.


The problem only occurs when an iPad remains on a network after the lease expires AND that address is subsequently given to another device. Your home network is most likely configured to have a total of 253 addresses available for devices to use. If nearly all your devices are connected continuously, they will renew their existing leases, and never cause a problem with the iPad. The only way you would have an issue is if the iPad was at home, on the network continuously past the lease expiration time (which varies from router to router and is configurable--I personally set mine to 7 days), and then put your iPhone on the network AND the router issues it the iPad's existing address. If the iPhone has ever been on the network while the iPad's lease was active, then there's absolutely no chance it could have the same address.

This problem will be relatively rare on home networks, because leases are typically long and there usually aren't a large number of devices entering and exiting the network on a regular basis. The exact opposite is generally true for public wifi like would be offered at a university.

I hope that's a decent explanation. I'm a network engineer by trade, and this is a more detailed explanation than I'm used to giving to my users, so I hope I'm not just confusing you even more.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

geko29 said:


> I hope that's a decent explanation. I'm a network engineer by trade, and this is a more detailed explanation than I'm used to giving to my users, so I hope I'm not just confusing you even more.


Thanks, geko, I like to know how things work...and I'm NOT a network geek. (Clearly.)  I understand the problem much better now. This could definitely be what was causing the problem with me on my neighbor's network...

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Sugar said:


> However, the good reviews and all the great things the iPad does better than other devices etc seldom get posted here.


Well I'd disagree with that 100%. There are something like 25 threads on the first page of the 3 reader board. 24 are about iPad or iPad apps. And only one of those is a problem reporting thread. Without doing a full analysis -- I'll leave that to someone like Geoffrey  -- it seems to me that 95% (or maybe more) of the posts in the various threads are overwhelmingly positive. Even the ones that are less than glowing are more in the nature of "I'm not sure _I'd_ like . .. " rather than of the "This thing is a piece of junk" variety. And of the posts from people who actually own the thing, even the ones who note 'cons' are still hugely happy with their device. The _only_ thing I've seen people here fairly consistent on in preferring _not_ the iPad is for long form extended reading. They prefer their Kindles. But, that's to be expected as this _is_ *Kindle*Boards! And, after all, no device is absolutely perfect. . . . . .though it might be 'perfect' for a given individual. I feel that way about the new notebook I just got for myself, but I don't expect you all to agree. . . . . .

But, wow, geko: what a great explanation of how routers work and why they might sometimes not! Thanks!


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But, wow, geko: what a great explanation of how routers work and why they might sometimes not! Thanks!


No problem. Glad I could help, rather than muddying the waters further.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Sugar said:


> However, the good reviews and all the great things the iPad does better than other devices etc seldom get posted here.





Ann in Arlington said:


> Well I'd disagree with that 100%. There are something like 25 threads on the first page of the 3 reader board. 24 are about iPad or iPad apps. And only one of those is a problem reporting thread. Without doing a full analysis -- I'll leave that to someone like Geoffrey  -- it seems to me that 95% (or maybe more) of the posts in the various threads are overwhelmingly positive. Even the ones that are less than glowing are more in the nature of "I'm not sure _I'd_ like . .. " rather than of the "This thing is a piece of junk" variety. And of the posts from people who actually own the thing, even the ones who note 'cons' are still hugely happy with their device. The _only_ thing I've seen people here fairly consistent on in preferring _not_ the iPad is for long form extended reading. They prefer their Kindles. But, that's to be expected as this _is_ *Kindle*Boards! And, after all, no device is absolutely perfect. . . . . .though it might be 'perfect' for a given individual. I feel that way about the new notebook I just got for myself, but I don't expect you all to agree. . . . . .


I couldn't have said it better.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

geko29 said:


> Yes, if no one else joins the wireless network while the iPad is using an address after the lease expiration (or if they do, but get a different address), the problem will never pop up. And of course, power cycling also works around the issue.
> 
> That article says nothing of the kind. The DHCP problem is exclusive to the iPad (or more accurately, to OS 3.2). Apparently the iPhone OS as a whole cannot utilize their authentication protocol, so some network resources will not be accessible from an iPad, iPod Touch or iPhone, because the user isn't logged in. But that's a completely separate issue.
> 
> ...


Thanks, it's a little early in the morning for me. I'll give it awhile to sink in LOL


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> I couldn't have said it better.


I'm the guy who had the problem reporting thread, and I reported a successful resolution, and I've always liked my ipad and said positive stuff about it....I'd agree this is not a basher forum. Which is good!


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

Well, I got a new iPad at the Apple store. The tech support did point out that I use an unsecured network bridge to extend my secured wireless network and that the differing security settings on the two network signals may have something to do with the problem. But, they aren't sure, and don't have a fix yet, so he gave me a new iPad. It's restoring now. 

As to Geko's post above, though, the problem I was having might have been a bit different. I was having the dropped wifi on my home network despite continuous connections. We do have usually a minimum of 6 and up to 13 devices connected wirelessly at any given time, and if a typical DHCP lease renewal is 7 days, then it seems unlikely that was the problem for me. At any rate, it does seem like a rather complicated problem. The tech genius said the engineers are collecting iPads with the problem to help them create a solution which is why he was happy to replace mine. 

Still no Apple iPad cases in stock, though.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

Speaking of cases, my hubby came up with a good idea for a temporary case for my ipad when we go out of town. He said I should use my hard sided, padded pistol case for now. So I'm going to try that and see if it fits. I think it will.


ok scratch that idea, tried it and the case isn't wide enough. oh well.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

Actually the article I posted a link to does indeed say these things....

"Our current authentication system isn't supported by the iPhone or the iPad," Guy Jones, Chief Technology Officer for GWU, told TechNewsDaily.

"These devices aren't blocked by the university, but the authentication issues mean users users aren't able to log on with the iPad or iPhone.

The above quotes are from http://ow.ly/1Azb4


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

I wasn't referring to thread titles,but rather what is actually posted within those threads.
I have seen many more posts made by non owners that are indeed less than flattering,and virtually no positive ones posted by these same people.


Not that it matters one bit to me what any of them say, as it was just an observation.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Sugar said:


> I wasn't referring to thread titles,but rather what is actually posted within those threads.
> I have seen many more posts made by non owners that are indeed less than flattering,and virtually no positive ones posted by these same people.


Maybe you're familiar with the term "Devil's Advocate"


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

We do seem to be straying from the topic....so here's my contribution to the topic.

I came home today from Paneras (nice lunch) and my iPad didn't automatically connect to my home network, the first time that's happened.  I turned the wireless on and off from within the settings and it linked in fine.  So that may be the authentication problem.

Betsy


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

I really like going to Paneras.My favorite is their Asian Sesame Chicken salad...yumm 

I did find when I was there though that their wi-fi was a bit weak,a few other people on netbooks and laptops noticed it too apparently.
Too many people on at the same time,most seemed to think.I doubt that was the problem though.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

With the number of stores that Paneras has, I'm sure there's some variation, and probably within an individual store there could be hotter spots than others.  I had no problem today until I got home, and I was sitting outside the one in Reston on Saturday and it was fine.

I had the new Cubano chicken sandwich and black bean soup.  Very good!

Incidentally, a Mac guy came up and checked out the iPad after he finished.  I had noticed him glancing over from time to time while Ann was playing with it.  I had to wipe the drool marks off.   

Betsy


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I just picked up an Asian Chicken Salad from there. It's really good with apple chips added to it. 

My Paneras has the best Internet connection in town. I take my laptop there if I have a lot to download.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Gee, Betsy. . . .I didn't have any problem with _my_ home connection on my laptop after having connected at Panera.   

Oh, and I'd like to make it clear that it was not _I_ who was drooling on Betsy's iPad.  Though it is a very nice device. . . .not for me right now, I think, though. . . . .


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

lol @ drool marks  

Yeah I imagine all locations are different.Too many variables for sure.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Gee, Betsy. . . .I didn't have any problem with _my_ home connection on my laptop after having connected at Panera.
> 
> Oh, and I'd like to make it clear that it was not _I_ who was drooling on Betsy's iPad.  Though it is a very nice device. . . .not for me right now, I think, though. . . . .


Well, I didn't have much. Three touches of the screen.  Ann was cool about the iPad until she started playing with Magic Piano with Susan's DD....

Betsy


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

Sugar said:


> Actually the article I posted a link to does indeed say these things....
> 
> "*Our current authentication system* isn't supported by the iPhone or the iPad," Guy Jones, Chief Technology Officer for GWU, told TechNewsDaily.


Exactly. Authentication system. COMPLETELY different issue from the DHCP problem. Trust me, I know of which I speak.  They probably have a pki infrastructure that requires a client certificate to be installed on the device for access to certain resources, and the iPhone OS doesn't support installing said certificates. Has nothing to do with dynamic addressing, however.


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## corkyb (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks Geko.  That was the way I read it too.  Two completely different issues.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

geko29 said:


> Exactly. Authentication system. COMPLETELY different issue from the DHCP problem. Trust me, I know of which I speak.  They probably have a pki infrastructure that requires a client certificate to be installed on the device for access to certain resources, and the iPhone OS doesn't support installing said certificates. Has nothing to do with dynamic addressing, however.


I think the article I quoted was in fact a different article,and I was only commenting on the link I posted.

Whereas I believe you were commenting on the other and so that may have caused some confusion.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Sugar said:


> I think the article I quoted was in fact a different article,and I was only commenting on the link I posted.
> 
> Whereas I believe you were commenting on the other and so that may have caused some confusion.


No he's commenting on the one you quoted. They are two different issues.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Sugar said:


> I think the article I quoted was in fact a different article,and I was only commenting on the link I posted.
> 
> Whereas I believe you were commenting on the other and so that may have caused some confusion.


<banging head against iPad>

Whimper...please make it stop.....


Betsy


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

Eeeekkk ...not against the iPad Betsy..the screen..think of the screen..lol


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

Just an only semi-related update for all of you. You might remember I had wifi-dropping issues and took my iPad in and had it replaced yesterday. They suggested the problem could have been caused by having both a secure and an unsecure network in the house. I came home with the new iPad and disconnected the unsecured network and removed it entirely just to be safe. I restored the new iPad from the backup I had and kept going without too much hassle. 

Well, the new iPad I received yesterday started having the same issue where it dropped wifi. I called Apple and they had me reset the entire device, thinking that something in my setup could be contributing to the problem. I did that, and was done around 9pm. I started using my iPad again and everything seemed to be fine. And then, it happened again. It didn't reconnect to the known network in my house after it woke from sleep. I brushed it off, and then it happened twice more this morning. So, I called back. 

This time, Apple had me change the network security protocol on my router from the older WEP to a newer WPA. So far, everything's good. They were so helpful, even going so far as to give me personal extensions and email addresses to let them know if the problem happens again. The supervisor I was working with said that they had seen this problem on Verizon FIOS routers in particular and had been successful in resolving them, so I hope that's the case this time.


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## corkyb (Apr 25, 2009)

Oh yuck.  I have Verizon FIOS, but I use airport extreme as my router.
I bet I would have problems.
Paula ny


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