# Does Kindle Unlimited Work? KU Borrow Reports/Results (MERGED)



## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

For authors with titles in KU, can you please post your borrow numbers, or how they relate to your regular borrows/ sales?

I'm hoping KBoards can collect useful info here to help authors decide whether to enroll in Select or to opt out.

PLEASE, no mentions on whether you like KU or not, or your strategies- there are already two threads for that. Let's just keep this to people reporting movement of their titles. Thanks!


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Normally, in the middle of the month like this, I get about 10 borrows a day. I have 20 so far today. Borrows are usually really high the first three days of the month and the last three days of the month for me (sometimes as high as 75 a day on those days). I guess we'll just have to see how it shakes out.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

equal to my sales so far today - which, depending on the final price, could equal double $ for me today.

fwiw i don't have all my titles in kdp, and most of the borrows (or whatever they're called) appear to be on a few titles w/ better visibility


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

You do know borrows and KU whatever-they-ares are in the same pot, right? Can't split them out.

So--Today so far, 124. First two days of month, for reference, about 250. Yesterday, 61.

(On 9 books. Got one up for pre-order but I don't know if you can "check" pre-orders out on KU? I know you can't use your borrow on KOLL until the book's actually released.)

Sounds like that's what's going on for others too. The KU units, on less than one day's worth of data, about equaling the KOLL units. Sales are down.

Of course, it's only 7 PM (Pacific time). And it's way too early in all senses of the word to draw any conclusions. But those are my numbers.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Just for You is listed in the KU section, but it looks like it just has a pre-order button. No sort of pre-reserve button for KU.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I don't think there's any real way to split them out. However, I hope Amazon will split them in the End of Month Report.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> Just for You is listed in the KU section, but it looks like it just has a pre-order button. No sort of pre-reserve button for KU.


Thanks!


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

MJAWare said:


> I don't think there's any real way to split them out. However, I hope Amazon will split them in the End of Month Report.


At this point, no, the report isn't splitting them out. It says KU/KOLL UNITS for the graph. Would be interested to see if the End of Month report will split them up.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

So far 2 or 3 people are reporting a doubling of borrows... which sounds cool.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I have no dog in this hunt, but can I ask why you think Amazon would, could, or should split them? They are all the same to Zon surely? They are just commodities paid for out of a single fund. Why would they differentiate and what's in it for them to do so?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

The sheer length of the KU thread has made me steer clear of it. Am I to understand that it's actually up and running now? If so, I can report that on the only title I have in Select borrows have declined steadily over the past week.


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## Carol Davis (Dec 9, 2013)

I had one borrow.  I'm kind of excited about it, because I'm in that part of the pool where every single sale is cause for celebration!


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

My borrows have tripled, and my paid sales shot up as well.

It looks to me like a borrow affects your ranking *immediately*. No delay. No waiting for a 10% read threshold. I could be wrong, but I was seeing a lot of KU activity early yesterday, and I find it hard to believe people were 10% into my books already. Again, I could be very, very wrong here. Could be me discounting the idea that people are actually tearing into my books. Crippling self-doubt doesn't go away, people. It only gets worse.

With the increase in rank from the borrows came an increase in paid sales, just like the old freebie bump or a BookBub promo. Not as crazy of a jump, but a 30% increase in paid sales on some titles. Honestly, the results from yesterday were so positive that I want to just discount them as a day-1 glitch. A bunch of people jumping on something that was free and very easy to opt in to (all it takes is a single click, and you are borrowing up to 10 titles. There is no friction at all from the end user. It's scary how quickly you are a KU trial member).

I'm not expecting the bump to continue, because that's my pessimistic MO when it comes to my own stuff, but this looks as promising as the free-promos used to be. Which means the benefit will probably evaporate in 3 . . . 2 . . .


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> My borrows have tripled, and my paid sales shot up as well.


I'd imagine that this is because your books are promoted heavily on the main Kindle Unlimited page, and there are LOTS of people signing up for the free trial. Congrats on the increase!


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

For what it's worth I am a prime member and signed up for unlimited and they haven't offered for me to download as a prime lend anymore so I'm willing to be most of the blue line is unlimited borrows. I have a new release in as of yesterday afternoon. This morning I usually would have 5-10 sales in the morning this morning I had 4 sales and 8 downloads.


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## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

I had on average 5 borrows per day for the past few months, yesterday I had 48. Regular sales rose slightly. One book went from around #7,000 to #1,500.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2014)

It's 8:12 a.m. here in Canada. (I'm not a Canadian author.  I'm an American, here in Canada for a few weeks.)  First report on my graph is a borrow.  So . . .    That's a good sign.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

My Author Central sales dashboard for my 3 Montlake books shows the KOLL UNITS and KU UNITS in 2 separate columns. So it seems Amazon can and is separating them. My KU columns is showing a big fat 0 at the moment though.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> For what it's worth I am a prime member and signed up for unlimited and they haven't offered for me to download as a prime lend anymore so I'm willing to be most of the blue line is unlimited borrows. I have a new release in as of yesterday afternoon. This morning I usually would have 5-10 sales in the morning this morning I had 4 sales and 8 downloads.


Your book is probably still listed in the KOLL menu on Kindles; it shows the "Prime" logo on your page. I've tested, and books showing on the KOLL menu are still available for Prime lending. I haven't looked for your book specifically.

Books are showing the KU logo, but as a Prime member, if you click on "Read for Free" on your Kindle, and you're not part of KU, you get the Prime borrow options. I tested this morning. EDIT: But I can understand if, once one signs up for KU, there are no longer any Prime borrows.

Betsy


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh I know Betsy I just meant if you are both prime and kindle unlimited, it doesn't do the whole return your book thing it just default to the KU borrow system. So the only prime borrows we are all getting are prime members NOT participating in a 30 day trial. 

Edit: we are on the same page


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## ElleT (Feb 2, 2014)

Most of my data comes from my SFR as it’s been my mover. Yesterday KU/KOLL was 5-10 times higher than the average day.
Yesterday’s sales: I closed at 30-50% more titles sold. (I was already trending up though, just not at this rate.)
And of course rank jumped up. Overall, not a bad thing. 
Borrows pull rank up, rank pulls sales, it seems. 
Now let’s see what KU/KOLL $ per unit is. But still, I don’t want to be greedy. If KU/KOLL drives sales by raising rank … this is not a bad thing.
My jury’s out, since one day isn’t a lot of data.
This morning my KU/KOLL is outranking my sales, but my sales are higher than they would be at this time of the day.


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## heynonny (Mar 12, 2014)

I'd been traveling and out-of-pocket for the KU rollout, but checking the stats this morning on my one KDP title I've found that that the few KUs I've had have pulled my book up to where it's now ranking in its category and appears on the first page. I'm just starting out so even one sale/borrow makes a huge difference. Like others, I'm adopting a wait-and-see approach until actual metrics are available to evaluate its effect.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

I used to get Borrows on a regular basis. This summer, everything slowed down - my sales as well as borrows. Today, I already have a Borrow for my YA novel, *Shade*.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I'm running some free days on one of my title, but that usually doesn't raise rank on anything else until afterwards.  I'm seeing dramatic rank rises on several of my titles, far higher than I usually see overnight, and on multiples stories.  Really exciting!


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I've tracked "sales" at specific times for the last 7 days because of the success of The Trouble With Horses being so foreign to me (I'm accustomed to you run a sale, the book shoots up in rank, you sell your copies, then it plummets down model) and this thing has just sorta bobbed in the #2,000-#3,000 ranking up and down for the last week. It slides during the day, then at night shoots back up when all the tallies come in. Now, granted, this data is only as good as Amazon's reporting and we all know that isn't always smooth. So take this with a LARGE grain of salt.

All this week Horses has had about 5-10 sales by noon. 6 PM east coast time, I know I'm on par if I have anything north of 30 sales. It's 10:27 AM my time and I already have 12 sales and 9 borrows. Now, those 9 borrows might be worth very little (I suspect Amazon may have to increase the pot a second time), but the increase in sale AND the added value of the borrows, whatever they're worth I'm like SCORE!!! So far, I don't see cannibalization. I suspect this subscription model might bring a new customer to the table that before relied only on permafree or sites like Wattpad for their reading on their phones (Kindle Unlimited is available to app owners, and I know a LOT of readers who never did Prime because to borrow, you had to have a Kindle).


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

Sales were down slightly yesterday, I suspect because people were trying out KU. They are slightly back up as of now, but one can never be sure until around 10:00 p.m. KOLL/KU borrows are also up as of 9:00 a.m., higher than yesterday. But my books are long and it takes a while to get to 10%.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I had a total of 20 borrows yesterday. I write novels, so everything I write is longer. Anyway, I just woke up to 16 borrows and 27 sales. It's hard to judge the sales. I had more than 50 sales compile on my dashboard after midnight last night. The sales reporting definitely seems slow. It is going to be fun to watch.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

My 'borrows have gone up, but it's hard to say how much, but it's too early to tell how much. I'll be able to tell better at the end of the month.


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

The numbers can be very misleading/disheartening if you are seeing a big drop in sales, because the sales graph does not count the earnings from the borrows.  But as many say, we will not really know until the monthly earnings are released.


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks for this thread.

Being with a publisher, I can't actually see borrows but...I wasn't doing any promo this month due to having a bundle out next month. When my book got lumped into KU, I decided it couldn't hurt to promo that and I saw an almost immediate sales rank bump after a couple of weeks of slide.  

I know. Completely unscientific, but there you have it.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm getting worried. I just put all but two books (not including my sets--which aren't available anywhere else anyway) into Select yesterday, and not only haven't I had a borrow--all my sales dried up!    I sure hope I don't regret pulling them out of other channels. My graph has been at zero all day and I was hoping it was stuck, but obviously other people aren't having issues. I think I'm going to go cry now. In fact, I only have had one sale register on the graph since about 2pm yesterday, and I think it was a UK sale. What have I done


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## jamielakenovels (Jan 14, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> (On 9 books. Got one up for pre-order but I don't know if you can "check" pre-orders out on KU? I know you can't use your borrow on KOLL until the book's actually released.)


How do you create pre-orders on KDP?


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

jamielakenovels said:


> How do you create pre-orders on KDP?


I am not Rosalind, but Rosalind has what you would call an "in" with Amazon. Similar to Hugh Howey. They are VIPs and are treated as such by the mighty 'Zon.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

dmac said:


> I am not Rosalind, but Rosalind has what you would call an "in" with Amazon. Similar to Hugh Howey. They are VIPs and are treated as such by the mighty 'Zon.


I'm not similar to Hugh Howey! But yeah, pre-orders are done manually. They're a mixed blessing--you get the buzz, but you only get the orders credited on release day that actually came in on release day, so it's harder to get that huge bump on the day that pushes you way up.

(Unless you are Hugh Howey. Then you can.  )


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## A.E. Williams (Jul 13, 2014)

One borrow last night...

It's a start...


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I'm getting worried. I just put all but two books (not including my sets--which aren't available anywhere else anyway) into Select yesterday, and not only haven't I had a borrow--all my sales dried up!  I sure hope I don't regret pulling them out of other channels. My graph has been at zero all day and I was hoping it was stuck, but obviously other people aren't having issues. I think I'm going to go cry now. In fact, I only have had one sale register on the graph since about 2pm yesterday, and I think it was a UK sale. What have I done


Some not having issues doesn't mean others aren't having issues.  My "sales" has been jerky for 4 days. But if my ranking hasn't plummeted, I assume my sales are mostly fine and will catch up. My assumption (and that's important) is Amazon maintains the "ranking" more dutifully than sales reporting because delays and lags in "ranking" could be construed as false advertising whereas sales reports aren't mandated to be in real-time. IN other words, if Amazon artificially said their Thomas Mercer imprint was #1 in the paid kindle store and the sales didn't actually correlate and the mistake wasn't corrected in a reasonable time, AND others complained, it could be seen as false advertisement which has various restrictions depending on the state you are operating in. Hobby Lobby for example just got in trouble with New York for items being "on sale" for longer than 52 straight weeks, which by NY law is defined as a regular price and therefore misleading advertisement to customers.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Some not having issues doesn't mean others aren't having issues.  My "sales" has been jerky for 4 days. But if my ranking hasn't plummeted, I assume my sales are mostly fine and will catch up. My assumption (and that's important) is Amazon maintains the "ranking" more dutifully than sales reporting because delays and lags in "ranking" could be construed as false advertising whereas sales reports aren't mandated to be in real-time. IN other words, if Amazon artificially said their Thomas Mercer imprint was #1 in the paid kindle store and the sales didn't actually correlate and the mistake wasn't corrected in a reasonable time, AND others complained, it could be seen as false advertisement which has various restrictions depending on the state you are operating in. Hobby Lobby for example just got in trouble with New York for items being "on sale" for longer than 52 straight weeks, which by NY law is defined as a regular price and therefore misleading advertisement to customers.


I can't really say if the rankings are holding or not. I was out last night and not checking on them, and some of the sales I had yesterday didn't show up until this morning. Numbers-wise, the sales that showed up match my sales from yesterday, so I don't think it's a matter of the graph not working either.

I have a book in a multi-author boxed set, and the set has been doing pretty well last week. That has been translating into follow on sales of the next books in the series, that's why it's so strange that they just stopped selling within a few hours of putting them into KU. My non-KU book went on sale yesterday but other than about 8 sales, that stopped too. Rank is getting worse, so I don't think it's that they are just not showing up.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

*Yesterday:* Sales were 64 (I range between 60 and 90 but am usually in the 70s and 80s). KOLL/KU was 24 which is 6 x my average. 
_*Conclusion*_ - sales unaffected, a lot of activity by 'early adopters' that is likely to dissipate as the program rolls out.

*Today: *Sales are down about 25% but KOLL/KU is still about 6 x my average for the same time of day in the last month. 
_*Conclusion*_ - uncertain since it's only 2:30 pm my time and people might be out for the day on a Saturday......

I agree with Hugh - KOLL/KU downloads seem to affect ranking immediately. Mine shot way up quite quickly.....


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Heather Lori Harding said:


> *Yesterday:* Sales were 64 (I range between 60 and 90 but am usually in the 70s and 80s). KOLL/KU was 24 which is 6 x my average.
> _*Conclusion*_ - sales unaffected, a lot of activity by 'early adopters' that is likely to dissipate as the program rolls out.
> 
> *Today: *Sales are down about 25% but KOLL/KU is still about 6 x my average for the same time of day in the last month.
> ...


Good way to break it down.
*Yesterday:* Sales were 130 and borrows were 20. My sales usually range from 150-200 a day (although they were higher in the spring). I should point out, Friday has been my worst day of the week since mid-June anyway. My borrows, in the middle of the month, are usually right around 10 (so they doubled for the day).
*Today:* As of 4:30 p.m. (in Michigan), my sales are 75 for the day and my borrows are 21. My sales tend to pile up between 8 p.m. and 3 a.m. on a normal day (Sundays differ). I will update after the day has ended with complete numbers.

So, we'll see.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

It's no surprise ranking are shooting up in a brand new program. Free used to work really well, too. As more authors flood the program, however, somebody still has to be on the bottom, so I don't see how it can last.


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

Sales are pretty normal; borrows way up.


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## SLFleming (Sep 25, 2013)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I'm getting worried. I just put all but two books (not including my sets--which aren't available anywhere else anyway) into Select yesterday, and not only haven't I had a borrow--all my sales dried up!  I sure hope I don't regret pulling them out of other channels. My graph has been at zero all day and I was hoping it was stuck, but obviously other people aren't having issues. I think I'm going to go cry now. In fact, I only have had one sale register on the graph since about 2pm yesterday, and I think it was a UK sale. What have I done


You have three days to pull out, if you're regretting your decision. At least that's how it used to be.


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## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> My borrows have tripled, and my paid sales shot up as well.
> 
> It looks to me like a borrow affects your ranking *immediately*. No delay. No waiting for a 10% read threshold. I could be wrong, but I was seeing a lot of KU activity early yesterday, and I find it hard to believe people were 10% into my books already. Again, I could be very, very wrong here. Could be me discounting the idea that people are actually tearing into my books. Crippling self-doubt doesn't go away, people. It only gets worse.
> 
> ...


I'm seeing the same increases...just not on Hugh's level.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

What I was wondering is about the 10% read rule. Lots of readers download tons of free books they never read. It's one of the reasons free doesn't work as well anymore.  Might this not be the same thing, leading to tons of borrows, but no more money? Yet, the author is stuck in exclusivity. I guess what I'm asking is, do the numbers mean anything right now, so early in the game?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

katrina46 said:


> What I was wondering is about the 10% read rule. Lots of readers download tons of free books they never read. It's one of the reasons free doesn't work as well anymore. Might this not be the same thing, leading to tons of borrows, but no more money? Yet, the author is stuck in exclusivity. I guess what I'm asking is, do the numbers mean anything right now, so early in the game?


My understanding is the borrows only show up AFTER they've passed the 10 percent threshold. I could be wrong, though.


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## MikeDavidson (Oct 5, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> My borrows have tripled, and my paid sales shot up as well.


Same here. I'm glad about the sales, this was a really good idea for getting more book traffic, but I'm a bit concerned about the payout, If they don't add more than $800,000 to the pot. the pay out was $1.2 mill, if they doubled the sales they'd need to add another $1.2 mill just to keep it at $2 a borrow. But seeing that they added only $800,000 and the borrow have tripled, I'm a bit concerned...


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

As someone at lots of retailers I am waiting to see how this plays out. I don't want to lose traction on Apple and B&N. I have a feeling this won't affect people like Rosalind or Hugh. You guys have (justifiably) street cred. What you lose in commissions per sale I think you'll makeup in volume. But I have very little street cred. I think KU will just be another pile I'll sink to the bottom of, without the cushion of sales at other places. I will make sure, however, that readers know I am on Oyster and Scribd. Honestly without the exclusivity I'd be hung ho to give KU a try, and who knows, that may be something they drop if it turns too many talented indies away.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

As I mentioned in another thread, I do not think it will change people's fortunes as much as we thought in the early hours of the program's launch. If you could not get readers before, this will likely not change that very much. Even KU readers will still decide what they want to read based on book cover, blurb, and sample chapters. Reading time is precious, and they will not read over 10% of something if the previous 9% is awful.

So, those who were selling books pre-KU, I believe, will continue to sell books. Only now you will have more people reading who otherwise would not read you because they could not afford you. 

I am cautiously optimistic this will be the new "permafree."

I think this might also affect reviews. KU readers who did not "pay" for a book might feel less inclined to savage it. A lot of bad reviews I have seen online are the results of angry readers who paid for something they are not happy with. If you take the pay element out of it, will there still be the need for a vengeful review?


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

Borrows and sales are both up like 75% on the pen name I'm focused on. Borrows and sales are up 20% on the pen name I am no focused on.

Has everyone taken a look at their Author Ranking? Holy cow.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Got to say - I'm actually enjoying watching my blue line rocket - at this rate I'll be going from about twenty "borrows" a month to about 500.

Obviously the key question will then be - how much is it worth? 

We can only wait and see.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

MikeDavidson said:


> Same here. I'm glad about the sales, this was a really good idea for getting more book traffic, but I'm a bit concerned about the payout, If they don't add more than $800,000 to the pot. the pay out was $1.2 mill, if they doubled the sales they'd need to add another $1.2 mill just to keep it at $2 a borrow. But seeing that they added only $800,000 and the borrow have tripled, I'm a bit concerned...


They added $800K for less than a half a month's activity. If they had added it on July 1, it would have been about $1.7 mil added to the $1.2

They have never said it's simple math. They've never said, "we take in x, and you get an even split." They've got a target in mind to feed us, and so far that's been $2.

I don't think we have to worry that it's like grandma's candle shop, where she can only pay you out what's in the cigar box under the counter.


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## LoriP (Jun 2, 2014)

I haven't been with Select very long (I'm experimenting with a pen name and a new-to-me genre so I went with Select for a few titles in early July). Since then I was averaging 1 borrow every other day or two. Since KU went live, I have had 11 KU/KOLL. 

So, my question - and perhaps it is already discussed in that giant thread about KU (If so, I'm sorry) - What does this mean? Is the "borrow" showing either KOLL / an actual book that people have read past the 10% OR is it a marker of how many people have downloaded it (who may / may not read it later)? In which case, it is a non-number and completely meaningless.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm not in Select but thought I'd offer counter info. You can't really judge based off two days, but for what it's worth, my sales seem to be about the same for the past two days - perhaps slightly lower. However, my ranking has gone down by a couple thousand places, which seems like it might be because of a lot of KU books getting bumped up. Still, it's hard to imagine that difference being 2,000 titles worth.

If Amazon forces my hand, I'll jump ship and go all in. Until then, I'll watch and wait.


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## StraightNoChaser (Dec 29, 2013)

My borrows have approximately tripled so far. Sales are normal, perhaps even a little higher than usual.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

While it's not possible to break KU borrows out of KOLL borrows, my combined borrows are about double today what they're been over the previous ten days, 19 to 7.4. I thought sales would suffer, but only time will tell on that. Today's sales are slightly higher than the month's average, 179 to 172.4.

I'll be keeping an eye on sales to see if there's any downward trend attributable to KU.


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## AnyaWrites (May 16, 2014)

I usually have zero to 1 borrows. I've never had more than 1 borrow on a single day. Today I received 19. I'm a week away from 90 day on kdp select and I was getting out... now I'm not so sure.
Also, I haven't seen a change in actual sales, they are still low.


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## MikeDavidson (Oct 5, 2013)

LisaGloria said:


> They added $800K for less than a half a month's activity. If they had added it on July 1, it would have been about $1.7 mil added to the $1.2
> 
> They have never said it's simple math. They've never said, "we take in x, and you get an even split." They've got a target in mind to feed us, and so far that's been $2.
> 
> I don't think we have to worry that it's like grandma's candle shop, where she can only pay you out what's in the cigar box under the counter.


If you're right and if everything triples the payout should settle around $1.5 per borrow. Not sure if that's what they're going for. I hope it's still $2.


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## MikeDavidson (Oct 5, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> While it's not possible to break KU borrows out of KOLL borrows, my combined borrows are about double today what they're been over the previous ten days, 19 to 7.4. I thought sales would suffer, but only time will tell on that. Today's sales are slightly higher than the month's average, 179 to 172.4.
> 
> I'll be keeping an eye on sales to see if there's any downward trend attributable to KU.


They still count as sale though, so your ranking shouldn't suffer. Probably will get better actually.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

LisaGloria said:


> They added $800K for less than a half a month's activity. If they had added it on July 1, it would have been about $1.7 mil added to the $1.2
> 
> They have never said it's simple math. They've never said, "we take in x, and you get an even split." They've got a target in mind to feed us, and so far that's been $2.
> 
> I don't think we have to worry that it's like grandma's candle shop, where she can only pay you out what's in the cigar box under the counter.


There's a reason they won't promise $2 per borrow.

If you think it's because they're nice and cuddly......

Do I think it will stay $2 for a few months? You betcha! Do I think they plan to keep it like that?

Ahahahaha. If they wanted it to be $2, they'd make it $2. It's $2 until they think that other outlets are on their knees.

The more you make on a sale, the more Amazon makes. The less they pay you on a borrow, the more Amazon makes.


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

kwest said:


> I'm not in Select but thought I'd offer counter info. You can't really judge based off two days, but for what it's worth, my sales seem to be about the same for the past two days - perhaps slightly lower. However, my ranking has gone down by a couple thousand places, which seems like it might be because of a lot of KU books getting bumped up. Still, it's hard to imagine that difference being 2,000 titles worth.
> 
> If Amazon forces my hand, I'll jump ship and go all in. Until then, I'll watch and wait.


This is how I feel.

I'm making good money from other channels and my sales haven't gone down, but I'm getting kind of scared of my rankings dropping affecting my sales going forward. 
I'm making decent money from Apple/B&N so I don't want to abandon them but Amazon is still the almighty.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Heather Lori Harding said:


> *Yesterday:* Sales were 64 (I range between 60 and 90 but am usually in the 70s and 80s). KOLL/KU was 24 which is 6 x my average.
> _*Conclusion*_ - sales unaffected, a lot of activity by 'early adopters' that is likely to dissipate as the program rolls out.
> 
> *Today: *Sales are down about 25% but KOLL/KU is still about 6 x my average for the same time of day in the last month.
> ...


UPDATED:

*SATURDAY: * - I had the lowest number of sales in 23 days - 51 - but it's still a respectable figure. My KOLL/KU ended up at *7x *my previous average
*Conclusion:* Adding the two figures together, my numbers for the past 2 days are remarkably consistent with my previous sales pattern. The only problem will be if the payout for KOLL is less than $2. At $2, I'm matching my previous sales royalties - but I had planned to nudge my price higher. I definitely won't mess with that now.....

All in all, it's too early to call. I haven't been hurt by it in any way as long as I get the desired $2. These are early adopters jumping on a free trial and running with it. Only a percentage will transition to the paid service. I forsee lots of ups and downs for the next few months till it all settles in.

I'm going to keep updating as I keep fairly accurate records of my sales vs time of day, rankings, etc....


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Heather Lori Harding said:


> UPDATED:
> 
> *SATURDAY: * - I had the lowest number of sales in 23 days - 51 - but it's still a respectable figure. My KOLL/KU ended up at *7x *my previous average
> *Conclusion:* Adding the two figures together, my numbers for the past 2 days are remarkably consistent with my previous sales pattern. The only problem will be if the payout for KOLL is less than $2. At $2, I'm matching my previous sales royalties - but I had planned to nudge my price higher. I definitely won't mess with that now.....
> ...


The question is, what is your author ranking doing? You have one book, so that's fairly significant. If your author ranking is going up but sales are going down, that's just reflecting a trend of lower sales.


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## M. Sid Kelly (Oct 24, 2013)

Another possibility for rising rank with lowered sales is that Amazon is giving ranking credit for KU downloads before 10% is read. This would also mean that all of the borrows on the blue line are ones that have reached 10% and there may be a bunch of not-yet-10% KU borrows out there that you'd only have a clue about with unexpected ranking boosts. My meager numbers would seem to support this, and I think it's what Hugh Howey guessed was happening.

I think Amazon might want to give the ranking boosts at pre-10% just to help keep us all from freaking out even more.

Anyway, my numbers have been weird the last couple of days and I'm hoping this is the explanation...


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

LorrainePaton said:


> So, my question - and perhaps it is already discussed in that giant thread about KU (If so, I'm sorry) - What does this mean? Is the "borrow" showing either KOLL / an actual book that people have read past the 10% OR is it a marker of how many people have downloaded it (who may / may not read it later)? In which case, it is a non-number and completely meaningless.


This is absolutely the question I'd like to see answered definitively, too. Because it seems to me that the borrow numbers people are reporting are quite high IF they represent 10% reads.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

M. Sid Kelly said:


> Another possibility for rising rank with lowered sales is that Amazon is giving ranking credit for KU downloads before 10% is read.


I really think they are.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

VMた said:


> I really think they are.


I believe they are download numbers not 10% read numbers mainly because the system for showing downloads was already in place and leaving it that way is the simplest option. Engineers love simplicity when they can get away with it. We have a saying, "simple is efficient" and generally that's true. It will be interesting to see if the blue line is ever updated downward, which before KU would never happen. It may happen now if the books aren't ever read, but then again, I haven't heard anyone say there is a time limit for that 10% read. Is there one?

EDIT: I just realised that if the blue line is downloads and not reads, then writers have a problem justifying their spreadsheet and royalty numbers. The blue line might not match the dollar amounts expected. Hmmm... Maybe the line HAS to be reads then.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I believe they are download numbers not 10% read numbers mainly because the system for showing downloads was already in place and leaving it that way is the simplest option. Engineers love simplicity when they can get away with it. We have a saying, "simple is efficient" and generally that's true. It will be interesting to see if the blue line is ever updated downward, which before KU would never happen. It may happen now if the books aren't ever read, but then again, I haven't heard anyone say there is a time limit for that 10% read. Is there one?


There's no time limit as far as I know. Even if you remove a book from Select, and someone downloads it beforehand and then reads if after the book is removed, you'll still get paid your share for that download.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2014)

There's going to be some upset people if the blue line turns out to have no relation to what they're going to be paid.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> There's going to be some upset people if the blue line turns out to have no relation to what they're going to be paid.


Yep, I think it's unlikely that a download will be reported before the 10% has been read. All it would do is mislead and annoy authors.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> There's going to be some upset people if the blue line turns out to have no relation to what they're going to be paid.


Yeah, I realised moments after I posted. That could get ugly. I edited the post with even more speculation muhahaha!


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

So far my borrows and sales are about the same as they have been for the month. Ranking isn't really showing my current sales either, so it's lagging.

I suspect that the borrows increases are going to work best for those who are already popular.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Sorry, let me clarify.

I'm pretty sure they're giving author bumps for downloads, not reads.  Reads alone may be showing up in KOLL/KU.  If so...that's a bit interesting, for various reasons.

Now, my personal author rank is still up.  Those are based on sales and borrows that are read.  My book rankings are down.  Those are pushed down by other people's unread borrows.


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## VEVO (Feb 9, 2012)

The monthly KOLL pot is $1.2 million.  And Amazon added $800,000 for the last 14 days of July (31 days), using a prorate figure, that would be $1,771,000 added for the Kindle Unlimited for the whole month ($800,000 x 31 days / 14 days  = $1,771,000).  

$1.2 million KOLL + $1.771 mil Kindle Unlimited = $2.971 million a month

= $35.7 million a year

As more people subscribe to Kindle Unlimited and pay $9.99 a month, that pool will get larger.


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## Onedayatatime (Oct 14, 2012)

My paid sales are down about 25% from a price of $3.99.
My borrows are up about 20%. Who knows what the royalty will be.

My book ranking shot up. And is higher than it should be for sales and borrows combined, so I think we are definitely getting credit for downloads only in rank.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

Onedayatatime said:


> My book ranking shot up. And is higher than it should be for sales and borrows combined, so I think we are definitely getting credit for downloads only in rank.


I enrolled my latest book in Select, to test the waters. Since I did, I haven't sold a paid copy of it, and no borrows are showing up in my sales report. However, it has gone up around 7000 ranking spots. Either sales reporting is delayed, or you're correct.


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## jamielakenovels (Jan 14, 2014)

Does Kindle Unlimited Work? I say yes.  Here are my before and after net sales vs Kindle Unlimited/KOLL units: I took a screenshot before the promotion began and 2 days later (granted it's only 11am here so the day's not over but you can see)

Net vs KW/KOWLL

Stay Always
Before: 121 vs 20
After: 128 vs 37


Bad Boy 2
Before: 93 vs 10
After: 103 vs 66


Marked for Love 1
Before: 78 vs 8
After: 84 vs 62


Boyfriend for Rent
Before: 60 vs 17
After: After: 67 vs 46


Marked for Love 2
Before: 52 vs 1
After: 57 vs 38

Bad Boy 1
Before: 38 vs 10
After: 54 vs 92

The Trainer
Before: 34 vs 9
After: 40 vs 29

Does it affect rankings? Very much so.  

All my rankings for my books averaged around 30,000 and now?  the lowest is 2500 and the highest is 11,000

The only promotion I did was I sent an email to my mailing list of a few hundred and I did I think 1 tweet asking people to sign up for Kindle Unlimited.  That was it.

If you want to see screenshots, let me know. I just have to figure out how to include them.

How have your results been? Has it worked for you so far?


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Zero for my one title still in Select.  But it didn't get many borrows before this, although sales are (were) good.

Maybe this works better for shorts, or smut.
Might be a good way for people to get out of the adult dungeon.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi, I've merged two similar threads.  Sorry for any confusion.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## jamielakenovels (Jan 14, 2014)

Quiss said:


> Zero for my one title still in Select. But it didn't get many borrows before this, although sales are (were) good.
> 
> Maybe this works better for shorts, or smut.
> Might be a good way for people to get out of the adult dungeon.


Did you do any promotion for your one title?


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

As expected, it does appear as if romance/erotica writers will get the majority of the benefits from KU. I write SF/fantasy, and if the borrows do indeed translate to $2/per, then I should come out even or slightly ahead with pre-KU averages.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

jamielakenovels said:


> Did you do any promotion for your one title?


Nope. Having only one title (still) in select, I have no intentions of driving my readers to KU


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I ended up with 175 sales and 37 borrows yesterday. Not quite where I want to be but decent. I just woke up (finished five chapters last night and didn't go to bed until 5 a.m.) and I woke up to 66 sales and 19 borrows already. Instead of obsessing about this, though, I'm taking my Kindle to the pool and taking advantage of KU as a reader. Then, tonight, I'm going to write some more. I'm nine chapters away from finishing the main writing on my current book. Right now, and for me -- only for me -- KU is working.


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

yodaoneforme said:


> I ended up with 175 sales and 37 borrows yesterday. Not quite where I want to be but decent. I just woke up (finished five chapters last night and didn't go to bed until 5 a.m.) and I woke up to 66 sales and 19 borrows already. Instead of obsessing about this, though, I'm taking my Kindle to the pool and taking advantage of KU as a reader. Then, tonight, I'm going to write some more. I'm nine chapters away from finishing the main writing on my current book. Right now, and for me -- only for me -- KU is working.


@yodaoneforme,

What is your genre, if you are okay with revealing it?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

dmac said:


> @yodaoneforme,
> 
> What is your genre, if you are okay with revealing it?


I write chick lit and cozy mysteries. Nothing too heavy or taxing.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

I think that knowing genre is paramount. 

I'd like reports from writers in fantasy and sci-fi especially if they have a series.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

C. Gockel said:


> I think that knowing genre is paramount.
> 
> I'd like reports from writers in fantasy and sci-fi especially if they have a series.


I didn't put my big series in C, just the one with one book. Anyway I uploaded yesterday afternoon and have had 10 borrows since. Sales are normal too.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> Anyway I uploaded yesterday afternoon and have had 10 borrows since. Sales are normal too.


Thanks Wansit! I have a one-off I've wanted to write in the same universe as the I Bring the Fire series. I am thinking about putting it into KU.

How are sales of your others NOT in KDP doing? Increase? Decrease? No change? I don't have any changes dramatic enough to report as yet.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

C. Gockel said:


> Thanks Wansit! I have a one-off I've wanted to write in the same universe as the I Bring the Fire series. I am thinking about putting it into KU.
> 
> How are sales of your others NOT in KDP doing? Increase? Decrease? No change? I don't have any changes dramatic enough to report as yet.


Rankings for my non-KU titles have gone down about 3,000 points each give or take, but sales are the same....:-/ And I'm up to 12 borrows.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Still nothing.  It seems odd that a book already ranked at 63k would not get picked up at least once or twice in these heady days of KU.
This doesn't seem to bode well for titles specifically uploaded for this purpose. Simply existing in KU doesn't guarantee borrows.
Then again, I think we're seeing that genre has a lot to do with it.


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

I am happily being ignored in 7 categories. No downloads, borrows, or sales. But I'm good at being invisible. 

  (nods blue tangles) Or perhaps just at writing really bad books, not sure which. 13 pages may be too short to be considered bad. *shrugs*

      And I can't write smut sadly. 

    It's good to know that readers will not borrow just anything, so the writers of good, long books shouldn't worry too much.


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

I'm suddenly down about 50 units today. *grumble* I doubt it's because of KU though,  but you never know.


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## S. Elliot Brandis (Dec 9, 2013)

I'm almost certain borrows bump rank when the book is downloaded, not when the 10% mark is triggered. I've seen my rank change with sales/borrows being graphed...


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## kyokominamino (Jan 23, 2014)

Domino Finn said:


> For authors with titles in KU, can you please post your borrow numbers, or how they relate to your regular borrows/ sales?
> 
> I'm hoping KBoards can collect useful info here to help authors decide whether to enroll in Select or to opt out.
> 
> PLEASE, no mentions on whether you like KU or not, or your strategies- there are already two threads for that. Let's just keep this to people reporting movement of their titles. Thanks!


Nothing to report in 48 hours. I'm still an unknown prawn at the bottom of the ocean, staring up at the surface and gurgling the lyrics to "Part of Your World." Sigh.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

My borrows are up, substantially for me, but sales have stayed pretty much the same. Odd that the book with the most borrows is one that is in a Countdown promo I'm doing. 

Re that initial 10%, I'm golden.   I have both a puppy and a billionaire show up before page 2. Really, what could go wrong? (she says between chattering teeth...)


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm wondering about delays in reporting/how it's counted too.

I dumped a new serial volume one into KU a few hours ago. I've sold about 65 copies but the blue line is flat. I borrowed the book myself on a different account from my KDP and waited a few hours. Nothing.

Read the book to 15%. Still nothing.

Can't check rank as I don't have one yet. I guess I'll stop obsessing now. It's fun, though.

WAIT! About an hour after I personally read to 15%, I saw the blue line go up one notch.

*It's not conclusive, but based on this data, I would say that blue line represents a 10% read.*

Also, KU is obviously not terribly important to these readers. They bought the book and skipped right over the part where they could get it free from KU. I'm sending out an email tomorrow suggesting they pick up the book through KU for free. It will be super interesting to see how that plays out. If anyone cares.


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## kyokominamino (Jan 23, 2014)

C. Gockel said:


> I think that knowing genre is paramount.
> 
> I'd like reports from writers in fantasy and sci-fi especially if they have a series.


I'm certainly no one famous, but my next book launches on Tuesday, and it is enrolled in KDP Select/KU, so I'll let you know if there is an unusual amount of borrows after the book's launch. I write urban fantasy and paranormal novels, btw.


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## VEVO (Feb 9, 2012)

Tracking the # of books on Kindle Unlimited

7/18: 639,670
7/19: 643,879
7/20: 645,685
7/21: 647,450


One thing is for certain:  The number of subscribers to Kindle Unlimited will continue to increase month by month.  So will the numbers of books available.


p.s.  
'
It took Spotify a while to surpass the 1,000,000 mark.  After that, it started to grow pretty fast.  

January, 2010:------------ 250,000 paying subscribers
March 17, 2010:----------- 320,000 
July 20, 2010: ---------------- 500,000 
December 8, 2010: ------ 750,000 
March 8, 2011:--------------- 1,000,000 
July 14, 2011: -----------------1,600,000 
Sept 21, 2011: --------------- 2,000,000 
Nov 23, 2011: ----------------2,500,000 
Jan 26, 2012: -----------------3,000,000 
July 31, 2012:-----------------4,000,000
Dec 6, 2012: ------------------5,000,000
March 12, 2013:---------------6,000,000 
May 21, 2014:----------------10,000,000
July XX, 2014:-----------------11,000,000 paying subscribers


To date, Spotify has not made a profit.  Amazon will continue to take a loss on Kindle Unlimited for many months to come.  Same for Oyster and Scribd.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I have two books in Select that I haven't removed because of a promotion scheduled prior to this whole KU kerfuffle. Those books have seen exactly zero borrows. And my permafree book has dropped from a few downloads a day to zip.


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## btsc99 (Oct 12, 2012)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> I am happily being ignored in 7 categories. No downloads, borrows, or sales. But I'm good at being invisible.


Ditto. Not that a sample of 2 is conclusive, but perhaps it goes some way towards advancing the "They won't just download anything" theory.

Sent from my iCrap using Crapatalk.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

My paid-for sales are down and my KU's are up - so, for units sold, I'm about the same. BUT if KU only pays out $2 per unit, then I'm losing money. At the moment I get $2.40 and $3.49 on my two titles. My ranking has shot up, but I suspect this is the KU effect reshuffling rankings due to those in KU getting more exposure at the moment.
I write in UF. Have I had more exposure due to KU? Not yet. My overall unit sales are the same. Only time will tell how this plays out, but I'm not exactly ecstatic.


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## Kristopia (Dec 13, 2013)

I just enrolled my short story, Coming Apart, in KDP select. I'm putting my new novel out elsewhere, so that's not going in. I wonder if KU will be kind of a boon for those who write stories of "alternative" lengths. This might be a short story writer's dream come true, since folks who enroll in KU won't be thinking of paying for a short story - in fact, they might look more pleasing to those folks, because they'll be able to read a lot of shorter works in a month.

I doubt it'll make a change in my short story borrows, but I hope so. Let the experiment begin.


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## I Give Up (Jan 27, 2014)

Today will be my first full day in with two titles. As of noontime I'm at 67 borrows for one book and 60 borrows for its sequel. I have no idea if this is good or not, but I think I'm gonna stick it out and see what happens. I'm definitely not going to prescribe to the notion that each borrow is worth two dollars. Right now, I'm pretending they're all worth $0.50 and _hopefully_ I'll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe they'll be worth $0.60!


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

My response from KDP regarding earning less (as in my post above) i.e. why should I stay with select if it's impacting on my profit?

"The primary benefit of Kindle Unlimited is exposure. Most people is not always certain on what to read or if the money that they'd spend is worth the shot of buying a book from an author they've never heard off. Offering a book in Kindle Unlimited allows readers to get use to your work and that way, if they believe it is good they won't hesitate to buy the following book, or any new content the author may post for sale. Readers are used to always recommend books that they liked.

In other words, Kindle Unlimited gives you a lot of exposure and helps to get a lot new readers. Also, every borrow from Kindle Unlimited is a way to attract attention to other books. The program itself may not give provide a lot of profit, however, it does provide a lot of benefits for your identity, exposure and popularity.  Those are the benefits you get with Kindle Unlimited, no other greater benefits can we get through it. However, there is a chance that the more your books get borrowed from Kindle Unlimited, the bigger your share of the KDP Select Global Fund will be."

They go on to explain how the global fund royalties work - the usual spiel.
So it looks like this might be good for unknowns & the .99c sellers (so Amazon say - although I can't see how just being in KU is going to help the lesser-known authors), but not so good for those already making a return at higher prices.

If you're selling at .99c ~ you should be happy! I'm not, so I'm er... not.


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## btsc99 (Oct 12, 2012)

DaCosta said:


> "The primary benefit of Kindle Unlimited is exposure. Most people is not always certain on what to read or if the money that they'd spend is worth the shot of buying a book from an author they've never heard off. Offering a book in Kindle Unlimited allows readers to get use to your work and that way, if they believe it is good they won't hesitate to buy the following book, or any new content the author may post for sale. Readers are used to always recommend books that they liked.


Might I just ask if that is an exact quote from a KDP communication?


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Viola Rivard said:


> Today will be my first full day in with two titles. As of noontime I'm at 67 borrows for one book and 60 borrows for its sequel. I have no idea if this is good or not, but I think I'm gonna stick it out and see what happens. I'm definitely not going to prescribe to the notion that each borrow is worth two dollars. Right now, I'm pretending they're all worth $0.50 and _hopefully_ I'll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe they'll be worth $0.60!


If each borrow is worth $0.60 all you'll be seeing of me in Select is dust. Ain't no way I'm sticking around for that. 'Sayonara, Select'


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

btsc99 said:


> Might I just ask if that is an exact quote from a KDP communication?


Yes, direct quote. Complete with less than stellar grammar!


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## btsc99 (Oct 12, 2012)

DaCosta said:


> Yes, direct quote. Complete with less than stellar grammar!


Thank you.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

From someone with poor rankings, I have to say it seems to have had an impact on at least one of my two books in Select. I'm getting 1 borrow every day for my first book, up from 0 borrows. The second book hasn't had any borrows but has had a few sales. Book 1 ranking is about 100,000, the other book is 500,000 ish. 

I did a promo for Book 1 at the end of June which I think helped move it up enough to profit from this new venture. 

I'm not yet convinced to put my short fiction into it, but I have a new release coming out in August, so I'll try it with that one. 

ETA: I'm also seeing a surge in my UK and .de sales, though I don't know if that's tied to the promotion at the end of June or to KU.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

An update on my earlier update for the first book in my fantasy series:

My sales numbers have settled to within normal range. Of course, I'm not working with a lot of data since I only published June 10th. I had a slow start and then a run of 2 weeks where I averaged 100 sales a day. From July 8th to July 17, my sales (not including borrows) averaged at 72. From July 18 to 20, they averaged at 64. This is a small sample, but does show a little over *10%* drop.

Previously, my borrows averaged 4 a day. In the past three days that number has increased to an average of 36 - a *90%* increase.

If I've done the math right - *and others can correct me if I haven't* - then adding those two factors together, things have stayed pretty much the same with a slight uptick just comparing to the previous week where it looked like I was sliding. Just the distribution between sales and borrows has changed.

However, if KOLL/KU comes in at less than $2 then I've actually lost ground financially.

On the plus side, I reached a high of #20 on the YA Fantasy list - the increased visibility will hopefully lead to increased sales when the number of people actually using this service stabilizes .........


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

Has anyone gotten a direct answer as to whether books that are currently free due to price matching will still pull from the fund?


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

EC Sheedy said:


> Odd that the book with the most borrows is one that is in a Countdown promo I'm doing.


As a writer, I have a novella on a 99cent countdown starting today and have done zero promo... but it seems to have a triggered a couple of borrows and a sale. Kinda cool I've got a couple new releases planned over the next 30 days, they were planned before I ever heard of KU. However, I've got all my books in select to keep things simpler while I build my catalogue. One of the new releases will be a full-length novel, 450-ish pages, the other will be a dystopian fairy tale novella. It will be interesting to see how this goes.

As a reader, I calculated my July book purchases for grins yesterday and have already spent more than $9.99. I'm going to do calculate for another few months and then see which titles I bought are actually in the KU catalogue... but I've seen some books in there that I want to read


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## kyokominamino (Jan 23, 2014)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> I am happily being ignored in 7 categories. No downloads, borrows, or sales. But I'm good at being invisible.
> 
> (nods blue tangles) Or perhaps just at writing really bad books, not sure which. 13 pages may be too short to be considered bad. *shrugs*
> 
> ...


I know that feel, bro. Being happily ignored too.


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## Mark Young (Dec 13, 2010)

I've read everyone's comments since this thread went up. From what I've seen, KU seems to be working for the majority. Unfortunately, I fall in the minority. Before KU was launched I had all of my novels in the Select program as an experiment. Sales were rising and I had a few borrows. Since KU launched, however, everything has gone in the toilet. My rankings have dropping significantly, and my sales and borrows remain at zero. I am a gambler at heart, so I am going to stay in this game for a while to see if my luck changes, but I have serious doubts for writers like myself. The verdict is still out.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I've been reading this thread and others and to be quite honest I'm astonished that everyone thinks they have enough data to make any kind of reasoned judgment three days into the thing. FWIW my sales are slow today but yesterday and the day before they were normal (if anything can be normal just after dropping off the 30-day cliff during the slow season), while my borrows haven't changed much. I'm tempted just to close the sales page and come back when I'm ready to release my next one.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

DaCosta said:


> "The primary benefit of Kindle Unlimited is exposure. Most people is not always certain on what to read or if the money that they'd spend is worth the shot of buying a book from an author they've never heard off.


Ah, finally, here it is from Amazon. Exposure. Like so many artists in all media should give their work away for "exposure" while galleries, blogs, distributors make the real cash.

If all this is for "exposure" those who are "all in" are going to be in a heap of hurt come payday. Like Mark Cooper and others have said and are doing, having SOME of your eggs in this basket and diversifying the rest is probably going to be the way to go.


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## legion (Mar 1, 2013)

Mark Young said:


> I've read everyone's comments since this thread went up. From what I've seen, KU seems to be working for the majority. Unfortunately, I fall in the minority...


I'm also in the minority, Mark. For me, it is the same problem as before: visibility. How can I get exposure if people can't find my books? I had to jump through flaming hoops to find my Kindle Unlimited titles in the listings. The most popular titles stay afloat, so it's back to the same issue, KU, or no KU--increasing popularity/traffic.


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## Mark Young (Dec 13, 2010)

poisonarrowpubs said:


> I'm also in the minority, Mark. For me, it is the same problem as before: visibility. How can I get exposure if people can't find my books? I had to jump through flaming hoops to find my Kindle Unlimited titles in the listings. The most popular titles stay afloat, so it's back to the same issue, KU, or no KU--increasing popularity/traffic.


Rose, I feel your pain. Amazon needs to figure out how to even the playing field or they are going to lose a lot of faithful authors in these special programs.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Chrisbwritin said:


> Has anyone gotten a direct answer as to whether books that are currently free due to price matching will still pull from the fund?


Send them an email from your KDP account (if you haven't already). They got back to me within a few hours.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> I've been reading this thread and others and to be quite honest I'm astonished that everyone thinks they have enough data to make any kind of reasoned judgment three days into the thing. FWIW my sales are slow today but yesterday and the day before they were normal (if anything can be normal just after dropping off the 30-day cliff during the slow season), while my borrows haven't changed much. I'm tempted just to close the sales page and come back when I'm ready to release my next one.


This. Three days does not accurate data make. I have a new release scheduled for first month of August. Seeing how that does compared to previous release in March will be the biggest test for me.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Chrisbwritin said:


> Has anyone gotten a direct answer as to whether books that are currently free due to price matching will still pull from the fund?


The only books that are in the fund are also in Select, meaning they are exclusive. Why or how would an exclusive book be price-matched to free? Is it possible to have a permafree in Select?


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

It's possible because, unless you alert kindle to the fact that your book is now under select and is still being price matched, then they don't seem to be catching it (or haven't caught it yet, in my case). Maybe it's just taking a while, or maybe they haven't constructed that "net" yet because KU is new.


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## TuckerAuthor (Jan 31, 2014)

Chrisbwritin said:


> Has anyone gotten a direct answer as to whether books that are currently free due to price matching will still pull from the fund?


I can't see how it would since you can't be in Select if the book is being price matched from somewhere else. Select means exclusive to Amazon and only titles in Select (plus some mid-major publishers) are in the KU program.

[Edit] Ah, I see your question has been addressed already.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

1 title in, priced regularly at $8.99. No borrows. No promotion about it being part of KU from me, either. 

Meh.


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## TuckerAuthor (Jan 31, 2014)

I'll add my observations on numbers: I've seen my rankings fluctuate wildly from 40k to 150k for the two titles I have in Select. (No, I'm not a huge seller ;-) ) I will agree with Hugh, who posited it first in the thread I believe that it's counting downloads in ranking immediately. The actual "borrow" doesn't show up until the reader gets in and passes the 10% mark.


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## btsc99 (Oct 12, 2012)

Well, I get the feeling that I am not alone in being someone who writes


Spoiler



drivel - Sorry mods, but I just couldn't stop myself


 and has sales/borrows figures of just about zero. I have no way of knowing just how many of us there are, but my guess is that it is not an insignificant minority.

So for us it is about the starting point, and when you start from zero or thereabouts, something is better than just about nothing. Therefore the possibility of having a few paltry shekels of income is manna from heaven.

Of course KU is a double edged sword, the more of us that use it, the smaller the shareout. And thus we eventually cut our own throats. C'est la guerre.

Perhaps we should be paid not to write. I think I could handle that.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

An interesting observation about KU: borrows are still ticking up from days ago. For example, my Saturday borrows have gone up by seven units since the sale window closed. I'm not sure what it means, I'm just reporting it. It could be just a lag in reporting, or it could be that people downloaded the books Saturday and only crossed the 10% threshold today.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

yodaoneforme said:


> An interesting observation about KU: borrows are still ticking up from days ago. For example, my Saturday borrows have gone up by seven units since the sale window closed. I'm not sure what it means, I'm just reporting it. It could be just a lag in reporting, or it could be that people downloaded the books Saturday and only crossed the 10% threshold today.


Same here. I have about 25 more borrows for 2 days ago than I had then. I think it must be the 10% deal.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

It isn't long enough to draw any firm conclusions but:

for all of last month I had 120 borrows total across all my novels. My borrows have never been very high, strictly pocket change level. So far this month, I have a total of 140 borrows ten days before the end of the month, so there has been a marked increase. I just had a fairly successful Bookbub promotion for one of my historical novels which might or might not make a difference. My sales are actually up slightly from last month, so I can say that _so far_ KU hasn't cut into sales.

But this is such a small sample for such a brief period that at most it could possibly, maybe indicate the start of a trend. Or not.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> Same here. I have about 25 more borrows for 2 days ago than I had then. I think it must be the 10% deal.


Same here, 71 borrows since Saturday, where I was averaging about 8 a day the ten days prior. Also, I had a near record day in sales, it was the second day this month where sales topped 200, including the borrows.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I have data to share. My book is a novella, new release, niche genre of Pride and Prejudice Fan Fiction/sweetheart historical romance. It released July 4. These are just Amazon.com numbers:

July 4- 8 sales
July 5 - 29 sales
July 6 - 22 sales
July 7 - 21 sales
July 8- 10 sales
July 9 - 26 sales (Also Boughts Kicked in)
July 10 - 64 sales
July 11 - 64 sales
July 12 - 58 sales
July 13 - 46 sales
July 14 - 66 sales
July 15 - 54 sales
July 16 - 63 sales
July 17 - 48 sales

July 18 - 28 sales 6 borrows (I enrolled late afternoon)
July 19 - 27 sales 15 borrows
July 20 - 40 sales 10 borrows
July 21 - 19 sales 15 borrows

Right off the bat someone could say "SEE, SEE your numbers fell when KU came out" and I would point out that compared to other books in my genre, I'm actually falling slower out of the rankings. My book is still in the #3,000s and I would anticipate it to be in the 5K range. I have another novella releasing on Friday, and it will also be KU. It will be interesting to compare that release to this one.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I can absolutely draw a conclusion after three days.

I have 185 sales and 12 borrows.

Would I have more than 12 extra sales if I were on BN, iTunes, etc?

HECK yeah. Amazon is only 60% of my sales.

Twas a fun experiment, but I won't do it again. I have a book in the HNR of its category but it's invisible in KU.

Live and learn.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Same here, 71 borrows since Saturday, where I was averaging about 8 a day the ten days prior. Also, I had a near record day in sales, it was the second day this month where sales topped 200, including the borrows.


Just looked again, and my borrows for Saturday are now 60 more (for that day) than they were on Sunday. Which means, I would suppose, that Amazon is crediting the borrow to the day the book was downloaded, even though the customer is only now reading the 10% of the book that gives the author the credit. My guess, anyway. FWIW.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

EelKat said:


> Very few authors report getting a single sale from the final week of July till the 2nd week of September.


This seems a little hyperbolic to me. Sure, sales are slower, but they're not _that_ slow.


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## I Give Up (Jan 27, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> Just looked again, and my borrows for Saturday are now 60 more (for that day) than they were on Sunday. Which means, I would suppose, that Amazon is crediting the borrow to the day the book was downloaded, even though the customer is only now reading the 10% of the book that gives the author the credit. My guess, anyway. FWIW.


I noticed this as well. I've been monitoring borrows for each day up until 3am EST the following morning. When I looked back on yesterdays borrows this afternoon, there were around forty more than I'd originally recorded.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

For the first 17 days of the month my borrows averaged 5.5 per day.  Since my borrows are still modest but a lot less so. Day 1-29, day 2-20, day 3- 23, today 20.  That is quadrupled. My sales have been up but I also ran a fairly successful Bookbub promotion this week, so I can't judge anything by that. Anyway, so far I am definitely profiting from KU, but 4 days prove nothing. I will certainly judge by more long term results.


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## VEVO (Feb 9, 2012)

some potential milestone that Kindle Unlimited will reach:  

1 million subscribers at $10 x 12 months = $120 million USD in revenue
2 million subscribers = $240 million USD in revenue
3 million subscribers = $360 million USD in revenue
4 million subscribers = $480 million USD in revenue
5 million subscribers = $600 million USD in revenue

Netflix has 50 million paying subscribers worldwide
Sirius XM has 26 million paying subscribers worldwide
Spotify has 11 million paying subscribers worldwide
Hulu Plus has 7 million paying subscribers worldwide

The question is how soon before Kindle Unlimited have 1 million paying subscribers?  3 millions?  5 millions?


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

I put something in that wasn't selling and it hasn't done a thing. Also my title that had consistent daily sales stopped in its tracks three says and hasn't done a thing since. I literally have no activity now and no idea why.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

Olivia Wilson said:


> I put something in that wasn't selling and it hasn't done a thing. Also my title that had consistent daily sales stopped in its tracks three days and hasn't done a thing since.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Kindle Unlimited isn't magic. Readers still have to find your book. The only thing that will help is that readers who might not have been willing to buy are willing to borrow because they're in Unlimited. You still have to market and drive traffic to your book page. Try putting it in the Book Bazaar thread of KB Authors with Kindle Unlimited titles.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Kindle Unlimited isn't magic. Readers still have to find your book. The only thing that will help is that readers who might not have been willing to buy are willing to borrow because they're in Unlimited. You still have to market and drive traffic to your book page. Try putting it in the Book Bazaar thread of KB Authors with Kindle Unlimited titles.


Ooh didn't know about that, thanks will do


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Kindle Unlimited isn't magic. Readers still have to find your book. The only thing that will help is that readers who might not have been willing to buy are willing to borrow because they're in Unlimited...


Absolutely. I can confirm this from studying multiple sales reports from a number of authors across several genres.

So far, (and I know it's early days) I'm concluding that if your books didn't have much visibility before, KU isn't going to do much for them.

Maybe the 30 day free trialists are reading/downloading the big names first and will diversify later down the line.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

So would perhaps utilising the promo tools available provide better visibility. Countdown or free promo?


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Olivia Wilson said:


> So would perhaps utilising the promo tools available provide better visibility. Countdown or free promo?


Yes. You get a whole mini package of benefits with select. You should utilize all of them.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Kindle Unlimited isn't magic. Readers still have to find your book. The only thing that will help is that readers who might not have been willing to buy are willing to borrow because they're in Unlimited. You still have to market and drive traffic to your book page. Try putting it in the Book Bazaar thread of KB Authors with Kindle Unlimited titles.


I don't know. My book hit the HNR. I'm still at 18 borrows with hundreds of sales these past few days. My market must simply not be the KU market.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

My sales are much higher than my borrows, but my borrows are pretty even since KU launched. On the first day, I got 26 (which was still up from my normal of 10 around this time of the month). Every other day has been 50 or higher (and those numbers keep ticking up days later). The good news is, I've received about 15 new reviews on 12 titles in less than a week (all good -- although I know that won't stick, I'm a realist). My author ranking has climbed about 1,000 points. Since this is the summer slump, and I was fairly depressed about that, the KU numbers have given me a boost well above my previous baseline. Right now, I'm just enjoying the ride and seeing how things will shake out.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I've actually had MORE borrows than sales for a few of the days since KU, which is a little nerve-wracking. It's at a time when my sales would normally be slow, weeks after last promo and 7 weeks since release of last book, so I'm just viewing it as a positive and waiting to see. 

Interestingly, I am at RWA and have heard very little talk about KU. I'm not in the inner circles, but still. People seem to be treating it as just yet another iteration in the evolution of publishing. Have heard more about audiobooks. More buzz about that, partly because of KU, I guess. 

My audiobooks are also doing well since KU, not sure if that's why as I don't quite understand how the audiobook part of it works. Is it only WhisperSync titles that can be borrowed?


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## I Give Up (Jan 27, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> I've actually had MORE borrows than sales for a few of the days since KU, which is a little nerve-wracking. It's at a time when my sales would normally be slow, weeks after last promo and 7 weeks since release of last book, so I'm just viewing it as a positive and waiting to see.


My days start off with a ton of borrows at midnight (haven't figured out why yet), and then somewhere around 3PM my red dot catches up and surpasses my blue dot. Haven't had a day with more borrows yet, but I suspect that as it gets farther from my last release date it will become a possibility.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> I've actually had MORE borrows than sales for a few of the days since KU, which is a little nerve-wracking. It's at a time when my sales would normally be slow, weeks after last promo and 7 weeks since release of last book, so I'm just viewing it as a positive and waiting to see.
> 
> Interestingly, I am at RWA and have heard very little talk about KU. I'm not in the inner circles, but still. People seem to be treating it as just yet another iteration in the evolution of publishing. Have heard more about audiobooks. More buzz about that, partly because of KU, I guess.
> 
> My audiobooks are also doing well since KU, not sure if that's why as I don't quite understand how the audiobook part of it works. Is it only WhisperSync titles that can be borrowed?


Neither do I but I think the audio part is gaining traction. Zon just put up an audiobook bestseller's list and you're on it. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Contemporary/zgbs/books/2402293011/ref=zg_bs_nav_b_3_2402292011#5

Also everyone, I don't think KU is that big of a deal (or the apocalpyse ppl are claiming it to be) but I haven't minded my test run. 53 borrows for one book over that time period.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Wansit said:


> Neither do I but I think the audio part is gaining traction. Zon just put up an audiobook bestseller's list and you're on it. http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Contemporary/zgbs/books/2402293011/ref=zg_bs_nav_b_3_2402292011#5
> 
> Also everyone, I don't think KU is that big of a deal (or the apocalpyse ppl are claiming it to be) but I haven't minded my test run. 53 borrows for one book over that time period.


Well, how cool is that? (Both things, the audiobook bestseller list and your borrows.  ) Thanks!


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> I've actually had MORE borrows than sales for a few of the days since KU, which is a little nerve-wracking. It's at a time when my sales would normally be slow, weeks after last promo and 7 weeks since release of last book, so I'm just viewing it as a positive and waiting to see.
> 
> Interestingly, I am at RWA and have heard very little talk about KU. I'm not in the inner circles, but still. People seem to be treating it as just yet another iteration in the evolution of publishing. Have heard more about audiobooks. More buzz about that, partly because of KU, I guess.
> 
> My audiobooks are also doing well since KU, not sure if that's why as I don't quite understand how the audiobook part of it works. Is it only WhisperSync titles that can be borrowed?


Thanks for the RWA update. It's always good to know what the industry buzz is at conferences.

FWIW, my self-pubbed titles aren't in Select and I've noticed no dip in sales. (Hopefully I haven't jinxed myself now)


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## Christine Kersey (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm also at RWA and I attended a class by Amazon today. During the question and answer period I asked the Amazon rep if Amazon was shooting for a payout of around $2.00 per borrow with KU as they'd been doing with KOLL. He said they are continuously reviewing the amount in the fund to make sure it's worthwhile for authors to be in their program. I pushed him, asking if there was a floor to what they will pay, but he repeated the continuously reviewing comment.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Christine Kersey said:


> I'm also at RWA and I attended a class by Amazon today. During the question and answer period I asked the Amazon rep if Amazon was shooting for a payout of around $2.00 per borrow with KU as they'd been doing with KOLL. He said they are continuously reviewing the amount in the fund to make sure it's worthwhile for authors to be in their program. I pushed him, asking if there was a floor to what they will pay, but he repeated the continuously reviewing comment.


Yep, that's the line. My rep took me to lunch today and I heard almost the same thing. However, I'm pretty darn sure that they will take care that the first month's borrow rate is good. It would make no sense to roll this thing out and shoot themselves in the foot out of the gate.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Soo just curious. Anyone having success with kindle unlimited yet?


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm getting at least one download a day, which is better than I was doing pre-KU


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Yes.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

61 borrows today, so far. So, I'd say yes. Of course, it's the first of the month and everyone who's in KOLL and not in KU is borrowing like crazy.


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## DuncanMH (Apr 24, 2013)

When do they usually announce how much goes in the KOLL fund? (I'm assuming this will now be the same for KU)


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

DuncanMH said:


> When do they usually announce how much goes in the KOLL fund? (I'm assuming this will now be the same for KU)


Usually, they announce it a couple weeks after the end of the month. We should know by 8/15, what it was for July.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I am going to jump back into this thread to say this:

I'm eating crow.

You all were right. I was wrong. _I did not have the data I needed.
_
Every day as people read past 10% of the book they borrowed, my borrow numbers rise on past days. So initially I had a 10 sales to 1 borrow ratio. On those exact same days, the sales are only double the borrows now.

*Tons of people borrowed and I didn't know it because they hadn't read past 10%.*

This makes promotions difficult, because now I realize that the promo I was doing back then WAS working but I couldn't see it until people read to 10%.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

TexasGirl said:


> I am going to jump back into this thread to say this:
> 
> I'm eating crow.
> 
> ...


Well, that's good news! I'm glad to hear it's going well for you and that your promo worked.

Personally, I've had more borrows than sales every day since KU started. There's no doubt it's cannibalizing some sales. However, who knows how many fewer sales I'd have had when KU came out, if I hadn't been in it? Also, I did a comparison for day-before-KU and days-since-KU, # of sales x avg royalty + # of borrows x $2 (since that's my guess), and came out ahead, so I guess it's all good--for now, anyway, and now is all we know! If things change, I'll change the plan. All we can do until we have more data--go with what's happening now, and not freak out or look ahead too much. At least, that's my own approach.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Finished the month with 110 borrows for one book & it wasn't in Select before. Now I want to know what those borrows are worth.


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## DuncanMH (Apr 24, 2013)

Thanks Wayne. I'm very curious to see what it is!


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

My books that were making ZERO sales before on both Amazon and other channels are now getting borrows.  So even if they just give me a penny a borrow I'd say that's a step in the right direction.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi, dragontucker--

I've merged your question with our existing thread on KU results.  Sorry for any confusion.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

It's hard to say. I ended up with 1,058 borrows for July. My sales were sluggish for the bulk of the month (down about 20 percent). I released a new book toward the end of the month, though, and it really reboundedy sales. I have not had a day yet where my borrows have eclipsed my sales (I don't think I'm that high on the food chain). My first day of August is already interesting, though, since I've slipped over in to triple digits for borrows today for the first time (KOLL readers always binge the first few days of a month). I think the higher numbers prove that not all Prime members automatically enrolled in KU. I will be curious to see what the borrows are like late in August. For now, I'm just enjoying the ride.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

It really just depends on how much those borrows are worth, for me.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

4 borrows and no sales on my KU book


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Nothing that couldn't be explained away by random fluctuations in the space-time continuaminumumumum...


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## Perro Callejero (Dec 23, 2013)

Liv & Lacey said:


> I'm not in KU and my erotica sales have dropped by over 50%.


I don't currently have any title enrolled in Kindle Select, and my Amazon sales have plummeted this month. For the past 90 days I'd been averaging a couple (as in two) sales a day on Amazon, and recently it's been more like a couple (as in two) a week. I'd started thinking it was related to the launch of Kindle Unlimited, but I just checked my Sales Report Graph and it looks like the dry spell started on July 8th.

Maybe it's the summer slump, for me?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I have one title in Select and since 18 July sales have dipped a bit but no more than I would expect for this time of year, while borrows have remained the same (low). The same goes for all my other titles - performance as I'd expect six weeks after my last release and during the slow period. So I'm tentatively going to say that KU hasn't affected me very much at all.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Hi Drew,

Your graph looks very similar to mine. I had an initial spike in paid-for's too, and now things are starting to even out. Paid-for's are slipping back to their normal rates while borrows are up. Borrows do not appear to be eating into my sales.

I'm happy to let things meander along (depending on the actual amount we get paid of course) until sept when we should start seeing a trend. 

When does KDP announce how much we get paid for borrow?


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## Debbie Bennett (Mar 25, 2011)

M.F. Soriano said:


> I don't currently have any title enrolled in Kindle Select, and my Amazon sales have plummeted this month. For the past 90 days I'd been averaging a couple (as in two) sales a day on Amazon, and recently it's been more like a couple (as in two) a week. I'd started thinking it was related to the launch of Kindle Unlimited, but I just checked my Sales Report Graph and it looks like the dry spell started on July 8th.
> 
> Maybe it's the summer slump, for me?


Yep. I'm the same - early July, sales fell off a cliff for no reason other than the season. Picked up a little over the month but still well below the previous monthly sales rates.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

bardeh said:


> It really just depends on how much those borrows are worth, for me.


We won't really know that for a while longer. No doubt Amazon will make sure to keep the fund "topped up" for a while to attract authors into KU.
So I expect the $2 rate to remain steady for a few months.

I have one book still in Select and had a few borrows, no change to sales. Meh.

Ranks have taken a hit, though. Despite good sales in July, my overall rank is down a bit.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2014)

There isn't any doubt for me that it's cannibalizing sales. I went from 16 units sold to 1 unit sold on the day I put my titles in KU. Before that, it had been more than a month since my daily sales had ever dipped below 10. No mistake.

Since then my sales / borrows have been all over the place. Sales have returned to the 8 - 12 mark but borrows are something like 5, 9, 11, 0, 5, 16.

No new titles for KU until the royalty is confirmed.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Drew Smith said:


> Hey Mark, how was that one doing before? Do you think KU is hurting it? I'm trying to figure out why some of ours are doing really good and others haven't moved at all. It's a mystery. Maybe it's something out of whack in the space-time continuaminumumumum


No change at Amazon, no visibility and no one will promo it  But of course, I lost all the sales in other channels when I pulled it. It never sold tons, but I am out of pocket for the next 90 days on this.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I put all of my books except for box sets into KU. Sales increased as well as borrows. None are tearing up the charts but compared to how they were a few months ago, I'm happy. All my Mark Taylor books are also receiving the benefit from the prequel being in Thrilling Thirteen though,so KU might not have anything to do with it. I have two other books in Select and one, despite being on sale at 99 cents, was tanking. I put it in Select last week and it sold more at 3.99 than it did at 99 cents. Had a few borrows too. Other book had been permafree for months, so selling one and 2 borrows makes me happy.


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

I just made my new novel _*"The Gardener of Baghdad"*_ available in *KDP*. Let us see how it goes.

For Kindle prime members, give it a try!

_"This novel speaks about a flower...
The true red rose in my life,
The rose that represents existence, beauty and class.
Baghdad."_

*
The Gardener of Baghdad* tells a story about *Adnan*,a bookshop owner in modern-day, war-torn *Baghdad*,where bombings, corruption and assault are everyday occurrences and the struggle to survive has suffocated the joy out of life for most. But when he begins to clean out his bookshop of forty years to leave his city in search of somewhere safer, he comes across the story of Ali, the Gardener of Baghdad, Adnan rediscovers through a memoir handwritten by the gardener decades ago that beauty, love and hope can still exist, even in the darkest corners of the world.

_ Kindle edition_ of "*The Gardener of Baghdad*" can be found at the following:

_USA & Most of the world_  [URL=http://www.amazon]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M91LJGW[/url]
_UK_ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardener-Baghdad-Ahmad-Ardalan-ebook/dp/B00M91LJGW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406728735&sr=8-1&keywords=the+gardener+of+baghdad


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

Does KOLL/KU numbers show instantly? Or it takes several days to be included. I have added them since yesterday morning, and haven't seen any numbers till now.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

A KOLL borrow shows immediately. A KU borrow doesn't show until 10% is read. KOLL is still alive and well -- borrows tripled on Aug. 1 for me over what I had the previous several days.

My KU book is 99 cents, so I'm thrilled by the borrows -- a couple hundred on a pen name that was dead, dead, dead, and now is roaring into life. I've had 50 new signups to my mail list from the book link.


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

I still feel like my KOLL/KU is not working, because Sales are quite good borrows nothing.
Maybe a Prime Memeber can make a hit, and then I will only know if it working.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

I have eight of my ten erotica titles in KU, but didn't get them in until the last week of July. So far for August sales seem to be trucking along the same as before, and I have half again as many borrows as sales.


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## Amanda Hough (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi Writers,
How is everyone handling the borrows on KU? Is it killing your sales? Any experts on this topic out there?

Amanda


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190094.0.html


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

I put Chasing Dragons in Select so it'll enroll in KU. It's a title that's stand alone fiction that doesn't do well at other retailers so I figured I'd give it a shot. I rebranded it from its original title Anomaly (genre wasn't clear from title or cover. sigh.) Interested to see how it does.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

Will you all throw things at me if I ask when the borrow rate is confirmed? This is my first month in select so honestly have no idea when the amount shows up.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Olivia Wilson said:


> Will you all throw things at me if I ask when the borrow rate is confirmed? This is my first month in select so honestly have no idea when the amount shows up.


On or before August 15.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Currently I'm getting about as many borrows as sales, and some of my ranks have really climbed.  If I do a free promo on a book, it seems to take off afterwards with borrows (and sales).  

I took two books out of KU when I had the opportunity, because I wanted to upload them elsewhere for a promotion blog post I'm doing.  They're not selling so well on Kindle now and they aren't making up the sales elsewhere.  I'm definitely learning from this.  I have no idea how things will end up ultimately, but right now this is making me more money than I was earning previously.  Better visibility, too.  

When I have several books in a good (for me) ranking, it takes a lot of the pressure off the newest release or next promotion to perform.  I am launching my next few books Amazon-only, and will keep them there for at least three months, likely longer if they continue to do well in earnings.  There's definitely some exciting opportunities around the web, great places to sell books.  But on the sheer economic scale, right now Amazon is the gorilla in the room for me, and it's holding most of the cash.  And I want more readers, and more money so I can continue to do this.

I will be very interested to see what'll happen in future, but right now KU is doing well for me, and I kind of regret taking those two books out.  (I've since re-enrolled a couple of others, but not those.)


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

I'll say this, KU seems to track along with sales during a BookBub ad. I had one on Friday on Fallen Out and it went from an average of 8 borrows throughout July to 220 borrows in the last 5 days, or 44 borrow per day average, with a peak on the day of the ad of 88 borrows. Since my book was discounted to $.99, my royalty was $.70, where it'll likely be around $2 for the borrows.


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## CDM (Apr 6, 2014)

Wayne, you can count me in for one of those borrows. I borrowed it last night and thought I would give it a try. Mind you it is way outside of my genre, and needless to say I was up until 4 am last night. Great job, I will be looking for the rest.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

CDM said:


> Wayne, you can count me in for one of those borrows. I borrowed it last night and thought I would give it a try. Mind you it is way outside of my genre, and needless to say I was up until 4 am last night. Great job, I will be looking for the rest.


Thanks, CDM. Sorry if I kept you up.


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## Queen Mab (Sep 9, 2011)

Borrows are equal to sales this month for me, and I'm thrilled. The book everyone wants to borrow is The Doge's Daughter, so clearly explicit historical romance featuring two men and a woman is the way to go  It has always been my best-seller, but this has given it a new lease of life...


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Boyd said:


> currently my borrows are 2x the amount of my paid sales. Considering my shorts usually sell for .99 then win win for me


Yeah, 2-3x here. I'll be interested to see how many actually translate into payments.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Since launch of KU, average daily sales are roughly the same, but average daily borrows are up 9X.

Could be massively misleading due to short time frame of KU (18 days vs. 7 months of previous data). Also, August 1 fell within those 18 days, and first of every month is highest for KOLL borrows.

In any event, will be curious to know the July borrow rate come August 15.


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

Still, I am getting sales and no borrows at all. I released by novel six days ago. Am I missing somthing here?


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Ahmad_Ardalan said:


> Still, I am getting sales and no borrows at all. I released by novel six days ago. Am I missing somthing here?


To get borrows, you must be enrolled in Kindle Select, exclusive to Amazon.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I'll say this, KU seems to track along with sales during a BookBub ad. I had one on Friday on Fallen Out and it went from an average of 8 borrows throughout July to 220 borrows in the last 5 days, or 44 borrow per day average, with a peak on the day of the ad of 88 borrows. Since my book was discounted to $.99, my royalty was $.70, where it'll likely be around $2 for the borrows.


This is great to know, Wayne. I've got my first post-KU promo + Bookbub coming up in a few weeks and I haven't been sure what to expect. (All my books are in KU.) I've done really well with the Select promos in the past, but KU adds that whole new wrinkle. Thanks for sharing your results.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

I haven't seen the July pay-out amount for borrows yet. Is it out? It's been so long since I was in Select that I can't remember when in the month they release the actual dollar figure.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Sapphire said:


> I haven't seen the July pay-out amount for borrows yet. Is it out? It's been so long since I was in Select that I can't remember when in the month they release the actual dollar figure.


Usually the 15th, when the sales reports come out. Can't imagine it'll be any earlier this time. Once it was the 16th.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> This is great to know, Wayne. I've got my first post-KU promo + Bookbub coming up in a few weeks and I haven't been sure what to expect. (All my books are in KU.) I've done really well with the Select promos in the past, but KU adds that whole new wrinkle. Thanks for sharing your results.


Rosalind, sales during the BB ad were so high, it made borrows like like a tiny speed bump, so I took the 2496 sales on the day of the ad out of the graph. Average borrows of Fallen Out before KU was 4.6 per day. After KU it went up to 14.1 per day. On the day of the BookBub ad, it skyrocketed up to 89 borrows, on top of the 2500 sales.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Awesome. Thanks so much, Wayne. Can't wait for mine.


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> To get borrows, you must be enrolled in Kindle Select, exclusive to Amazon.


I am enrolled in Kindle select. That is whats weird to me.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Ahmad_Ardalan said:


> I am enrolled in Kindle select. That is whats weird to me.


I see that your first book is in KU, but not the second. If I remember correctly, doesn't a book have to be published a certain time before it's eligible to be in Select?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I see that your first book is in KU, but not the second. If I remember correctly, doesn't a book have to be published a certain time before it's eligible to be in Select?


No, I immediately publish all my books in Select when they're ready.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I see that your first book is in KU, but not the second. If I remember correctly, doesn't a book have to be published a certain time before it's eligible to be in Select?


No I have already ticked kindle Select on a draft setup for a not yet completed novel and the info on the project states "This book is in draft status. The KDP Select enrolment term will begin when the book is published." Are you maybe thinking of not being able to do a Countdown until you have been in Select for a certain time?


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

Mike McIntyre said:


> On or before August 15.


Thanks 

Again forgive my ignorance but how do we find out. Does a figure just appear on our reports, do we receive an e-mail or is there an announcement somewhere?


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Olivia Wilson said:


> Thanks
> 
> Again forgive my ignorance but how do we find out. Does a figure just appear on our reports, do we receive an e-mail or is there an announcement somewhere?


It's contained within "Prior Months' Royalties" (Go to your dashboard, click "Reports" then click "Prior Months' Royalties". As of now, the June report is the most recent. Come August 15, July's report will appear.)

The borrow rate also appears in the KDP newsletter that gets emailed to everyone each month.

If you really wanna know ASAP, though, just watch kboards. The July borrow rate will be the lead thread.


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

Mike McIntyre said:


> If you really wanna know ASAP, though, just watch kboards. The July borrow rate will be the lead thread.


Wholeheartedly agree. This will be big news!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Mercia McMahon said:


> No I have already ticked kindle Select on a draft setup for a not yet completed novel and the info on the project states "This book is in draft status. The KDP Select enrolment term will begin when the book is published." Are you maybe thinking of not being able to do a Countdown until you have been in Select for a certain time?


Yeah, that's it. No idea why one of Ahmad's books doesn't appear in KU.



Drew Smith said:


> Considering how many people are anxiously awaiting the announcement, the rate should be trumpeted from on high by a voice that sounds a lot like James Earl Jones... or maybe announced in iambic pentameter. Think Monty Python.


Anyone want to start a pool? My bet is it will be exactly the same as June.


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## AnyaWrites (May 16, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Anyone want to start a pool? My bet is it will be exactly the same as June.


lol. I might be the negative one, but I'm thinking around 1.25. Although I'm hoping around 2.00. One week to go!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

AnyaWrites said:


> lol. I might be the negative one, but I'm thinking around 1.25. Although I'm hoping around 2.00. One week to go!


Amazon had to notice how many more titles were quickly added to Select when KU launched. If we're short changed, I'm sure they also know how quickly those and many more will come out of Select.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Amazon had to notice how many more titles were quickly added to Select when KU launched. If we're short changed, I'm sure they also know how quickly those and many more will come out of Select.


I agree. They'll make it look as good as possible for a while and then slowly make changes as under the radar as possible until it's all not great anymore.


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## jamielakenovels (Jan 14, 2014)

I think it'll be at least $2 but I wouldn't be surprised if the first few months they beef it up to like $2.50-$3/each because they want to wrangle all the authors who are on the fence to be in the program. They know we, those that are in KU, will be talk up a storm if we're getting paid tons and eventually even the traditional authors who are on the fence will join the program too.


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## AnnaM (Jul 15, 2009)

My borrows have quadrupled since the KU program started.

I haven't published anything in quite some time, and I have to say that these KU numbers are motivating me to rev up my BIC (butt in chair) mojo and get a few more books out. 

I signed up for the 30 day free KU trial, and so far I've read about 10 books through this program. This allows me to try some indie books, and knowing that my author comrades are receiving royalties makes it a feel-good experience.


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

AnnaM said:


> My borrows have quadrupled since the KU program started.
> 
> I haven't published anything in quite some time, and I have to say that these KU numbers are motivating me to rev up my BIC (butt in chair) mojo and get a few more books out.
> 
> I signed up for the 30 day free KU trial, and so far I've read about 10 books through this program. This allows me to try some indie books, and knowing that my author comrades are receiving royalties makes it a feel-good experience.


 That is nice, as for me Sales are still fine, have to see some KU/KOLL numbers though. Nothing yet!!!


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

So, what's the deal with this? 

How does it effect self-published authors and Indies? 

What are your thoughts as an author on this new program? 

Would love some honest feedback!


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

I steer clear of it, but I'm trying to build a readership everywhere. I distribute through draft2digital and now Excessica for my erotica. I just don't have a desire to alienate readers on other platforms. Even if KU is a huge success I won't be sorry for having missed out. Long term, I think it's better to reach out to readers everywhere you can. Besides, I know exactly what I'm getting paid in royalties from other sites. KU is a shot in the dark that can change on a whim.  You can't plan your mortgage payment on a whim.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Here's a ten page thread from the main page to get you started. I'm sure there are others if you search.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190094.0.html


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Monique said:


> Here's a ten page thread from the main page to get you started. I'm sure there are others if you search.
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190094.0.html


Thanks!


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

katrina46 said:


> I steer clear of it, but I'm trying to build a readership everywhere. I distribute through draft2digital and now Excessica for my erotica. I just don't have a desire to alienate readers on other platforms. Even if KU is a huge success I won't be sorry for having missed out. Long term, I think it's better to reach out to readers everywhere you can. Besides, I know exactly what I'm getting paid in royalties from other sites. KU is a shot in the dark that can change on a whim. You can't plan your mortgage payment on a whim.


Were you contacted about KU and asked to list your titles with this new service?


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

So, you need to have a book listed with KDP select to get your book(s) into this new program?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Yes Sherry.  You pretty much have to be Amazon Exclusive.  Roughly 25% of all e-books at Amazon are in KU.  This means 75% are not.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Sherry_Soule said:


> Were you contacted about KU and asked to list your titles with this new service?


You know, I did get an email, but didn't even read it. As soon as the threads started blowing up on Kboards I knew I didn't want anything to do with it.


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## mysterygal (Aug 7, 2014)

I didn't take part in the early days when select was first rolled out. I preferred to be widely distributed. I feel I missed an opportunity back then, so I've entered a good share of my books (not many in number) in hopes of getting some traction in KU. If I don't, I'll return to placing my books with the other retailers. It's all a gamble, really.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Yes Sherry. You pretty much have to be Amazon Exclusive. Roughly 25% of all e-books at Amazon are in KU. This means 75% are not.


Wow! I had no idea it was that high. I don't have any titles with KDP Select right now. It did nothing to boost sales for me, so I only tried it once.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Sherry_Soule said:


> Wow! I had no idea it was that high. I don't have any titles with KDP Select right now. It did nothing to boost sales for me, so I only tried it once.


That's why I don't really think it will make enough of a difference to matter to me in the end. That's a lot of authors fighting for visibility. I'd probably get more from a permafree that would garner more sales at my normal royalties, rather than being paid from the pot.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey I am enjoying KU but not as one might think.  I can now tell the difference between a special and a permafree.  Non-kindle unlimited books don't have the read free click thing.  The KU books do.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Hey I am enjoying KU but not as one might think. I can now tell the difference between a special and a permafree. Non-kindle unlimited books don't have the read free click thing. The KU books do.


As a reader, you mean? Did you sign up for the trial period?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

No, I did not.  But I now know who's books are perma-free and who is just running a free special.  Oh you don't know me.
Hi!  I am cin.  Resident pain in the butt.  Also queen of the cheap and free.  I was gonna say I read everything but certain genres but alas the authors here have corrupted me and I now read everything including historical and Christian fiction.  Those were my previous no thanks genres.
$10 a month for books I can't keep is just way too much money for me.  
If I wanted I could take that $10 and get anywhere from 20 hardbacks, 40 paperbacks or 150 books to keep.  
Thrift stores on that one.  Or I can save that $10 and get my auto buy books when they come out.  Waiting on three authors at the moment.

I am using the KU button on a book page to determine how often it will be free.  I think I own nearly everyone here's permafrees and some of the others their specials.

Oh and if you ever want to know what this reader thinks of your cover, blurb or sample: please ask.


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh and if you ever want to know what this reader thinks of your cover, blurb or sample: please ask.


prepare for the onslaught. LOL


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

theaatkinson said:


> prepare for the onslaught. LOL


I survived the 8 hour Konrath challenge with most of my brain cells still intact. I reviewed many of those books. I think I can handle it.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh and if you ever want to know what this reader thinks of your cover, blurb or sample: please ask.


Oh, oh! Is this going to be a public chastisement?


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Hey Cin, 

Can you let us know what you find on often it will be free? Curious...


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh and if you ever want to know what this reader thinks of your cover, blurb or sample: please ask.


Hi Cin! I see your posts a lot on the different threads. ;-) And yes, please, I would love your honest opinion on my cover, blurb, and first page sample. Just click on the first 3 book cover images in my sig.

Wait...is that a trick question? You're not going to make me stand in a corner, sucking my thumb after you critique them are you?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Sherry_Soule said:


> Were you contacted about KU and asked to list your titles with this new service?


It's not really a 'new service'. It is an extension of their already existing Kindle Select program. Amazon doesn't have to contact us since most of us are on top of anything going on in publishing, though I suspect most of us were. I was contacted anyway.

I might should point out that not all of us make any of our novels free, ever. I don't.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Sherry_Soule said:


> Thanks!


Sherry,

I've merged your thread with the existing thread about KU results.

Thanks for understanding.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Sherry,
> 
> I've merged your thread with the existing thread about KU results.
> 
> ...


No problem! (It took me a while to find it, though. LOL)


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Sherry,
Looked at your first book.  It looks good, though your blurb is a bit long.

Rayven,
Only if you are into public chaisement.  Does this mean you want moved up on my TBR?

Sherry,
It lets me know if a book is temporarily free or permafree.


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## SarahCarter (Nov 8, 2012)

Just noticed a change in my sales graph. I had one borrow for the fifth of August, but today it's saying I had two borrows that day. So...I'm not sure what that means. Maybe there was just a delay in reporting? Maybe the borrow is reported for the day it was actually borrowed, but doesn't show up until the required 10% has been read?

Sorry if anyone else has already posted about this.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

SarahCarter said:


> Just noticed a change in my sales graph. I had one borrow for the fifth of August, but today it's saying I had two borrows that day. So...I'm not sure what that means. Maybe there was just a delay in reporting? Maybe the borrow is reported for the day it was actually borrowed, but doesn't show up until the required 10% has been read?
> 
> Sorry if anyone else has already posted about this.


If someone borrows your book on Monday, it won't show up on your graph. If they read to the 10% mark on Wednesday, it'll be credited for Monday, the day they borrowed it.


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## SarahCarter (Nov 8, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> If someone borrows your book on Monday, it won't show up on your graph. If they read to the 10% mark on Wednesday, it'll be credited for Monday, the day they borrowed it.


Ah, that's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Rayven,
> Only if you are into public chaisement. Does this mean you want moved up on my TBR?


I can take it if you can. They say a book has never truly been read until read by cinisajoy.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Does it work? I went back through my monthly spreadsheets to get an answer. Sales of my books have risen consistently all year, including the last 24 days since KU launched.

Borrows of all my books combined from 1/1/14 to 7/17/14 = 588
That's 588 borrows in 198 days, or an average of 2.97 per day.

Borrows of all my books combined from 7/18/14 to today = 1365
That's 1365 borrows in 24 days, or an average of 56.88 per day.

This is more than a $100 PER DAY increase in revenue, with no appreciable reduction in sales.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Sherry,
> Looked at your first book. It looks good, though your blurb is a bit long.
> 
> Sherry,
> It lets me know if a book is temporarily free or permafree.


Okay. And thanks for the feedback.


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## VEVO (Feb 9, 2012)

7/18: 639,670

7/21: 647,450

7/25: 653,694

7/27: 655,804

8/03: 663,415

8/09: 669,536

8/13: 675,077


1311 books added each day on average

At this rate, it will reach 1 million ebooks in 248 days (8 months and 1 week).


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