# Throwing In The Towel



## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm thinking I'm done with my self-publishing experiment. I wrote something, and I was encouraged by someone to finish and submit it to a publisher. I showed a couple more friends, and they were all supportive. I decided to write something different, and they said they liked that too. So I decided to self-publish. I got the book edited and got a really nice cover. But I promised myself to not move forward if I thought the book wasn't very good. 

I'm pretty sure the book isn't good enough now. The closest I can get to an objective review came back pretty bad. Between that, and dealing with a formatting guy I'm pretty sure takes the little bus to work, I'm out of steam with the whole thing.

I like the people on this board. You're pioneers in the literary world, and that's very cool to watch. I've downloaded quite a few books from the people who post, and I've had my own stigma of self-publishing challenged. While I do maintain that 50 Shades of Grey is really poorly written, Hugh Howey more than makes up for it. Mat Reuther, Heather Walsh and Libbie Hawker have written books that are far more worthy of being on the NYT list than some that are currently there. Truly inspiring.

Even though I'm not going to publish, I'm going to stick around the board. I like the industry, and I like watching you guys from the sidelines.


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## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

Hang in there, man. I'm coming up on a year, have four novels done and still haven't cracked a hundred sales. You just have to find the right audience. Write what you like, odds are others will too. You just have to patiently wait  for them to fall  into your tr-, er, I mean, find your books.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

EdShull said:


> I'm thinking I'm done with my self-publishing experiment. I wrote something, and I was encouraged by someone to finish and submit it to a publisher. I showed a couple more friends, and they were all supportive. I decided to write something different, and they said they liked that too. So I decided to self-publish. I got the book edited and got a really nice cover. But I promised myself to not move forward if I thought the book wasn't very good.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the book isn't good enough now. The closest I can get to an objective review came back pretty bad. Between that, and dealing with a formatting guy I'm pretty sure takes the little bus to work, I'm out of steam with the whole thing.
> 
> ...


Ed, you might not want to make your decision based on a single review. Reviewers vary so much in what they like and don't like. Why not put your book out there under a pen name and give it a chance? If the reviews you get agree with the one you've already gotten, okay, maybe take it down and spend a while honing your craft before you try again. But maybe the reviews won't agree with the one you've gotten ... you never know. I mean, if *you* feel sure the book's not ready, that's one thing. But that doesn't seem to be what you're describing.

Ebook formatting ... it's not that complicated. You can do it yourself in an afternoon, so long as you're satisfied with a no-frills job.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Ed, you're down because of the book formatting. That sucks. But don't quit. Don't quit.

Breathe. Walk away from the PC. Watch a movie that is just mindless fun.

Come back to it in a bit.

If all else fails with Damonza's formatter and you end up with only a workable cover then I'm totally willing to do what I can to help you get things formatted for you. Gratis.

If you want a review of your work send me the manuscript and I'll have a read. I'm always happy to read KBoarder stuff (I'm reading the Shift anthology now) and I'm more than willing to gave you my thoughts on the book.

Writing is hard and depressing. It's difficult and grueling. And it's awful and terrible.

But it's also completely awesome. So regroup. Breathe. Watch that movie.

You will get there in the end.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

Hey, I obviously haven't had a chance to read your work, but I just wanted to say, maybe think about it a while first?  From what I've read, from conversations I've had, from my own experiences, everyone hits this point eventually.  You wake up one morning and maybe you read a chapter you thought you did well, or maybe you just think about that one line you've been working on forever, or maybe you just decide you are having a particularly cruddy writing day.  And you think, everything I've written is crap.  It's not just this one line or that chapter or today.  It's not just this idea, it's everything.  Everything I'm doing is crap.  I've wasted my life.

But really, none of that is true.  I'd be worried if a month went by and I didn't think this was a waste of time and that I should burn every piece of paper with my handwriting on it.  But it's not true.  It's just that little voice that all of us has that says over and over that we're not good enough, that we'll never get good enough, and no one else is going to think so either.  Chances are, you are way better than you think.  And chances are, if you keep at it, you're going to get even better.  You need to fight that little voice with cheerleaders.  Maybe you can be your own cheerleader, maybe that's too hard.  My husband is my cheerleader, he makes me finish what I start even when I want to give it up.  I'll be your cheerleader if you want! Send me a copy (or tell me where to buy it) of your book, I'll be honest but I'd bet money it's better than you think anyway.  Remember, they are all rough drafts (and thus changeable) until the last one.  And even the last one isn't set in stone any more!


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## Anotherdreamer (Jan 21, 2013)

This makes me very sad and I hope you change your mind. I don't think you can go by one opinion.


I cannot give you the formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure, which is, “Try to please everybody.”
Herbert Bayard Swope
1882 — 1958


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

I agree with Mathew. A deep breath and a break will do you good. Remember, this is not a race. The only deadline you have is the one you created for yourself. Everything can be changed. 

Also, this is a very common experience, which is to say this too shall pass, and then come back, and then pass, ad infinitum. That's when you know you're a writer. And why we know you are one now. Welcome to the club.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

Ed - Another author I know just received a whole spate 0f 1 stars with the comments within the reviews buzzing.  The criticism was warranted. It had the potential to throw her into a black hole of despair.  I called her just to see if she was ok.  She'd licked her wounds and went to work straight away correcting the issues brought forward.  If she can withstand that, YOU can withstand the one review.  After all, you will never know if you don't just do it.


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## FranceBarnaby (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm reminded of this great passage from Ira Glass:








If you really love it, come back to it. Best of luck to you in whatever path you take.


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

FranceBarnaby said:


> I'm reminded of this great passage from Ira Glass:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is great.


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## Anotherdreamer (Jan 21, 2013)

That was brilliant France. 
I'd also like to second Judi's comments. I've gotten countless reviews about how my editing SUCKS! I'm getting editing fixed. One person said my cover blows. It does, so I'm going to fix it. You aren't going to be perfect right out of the gate. You just have to expect to suck a little and roll with it.


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## MT Berlyn (Mar 27, 2012)

I know how you feel, Ed, _believe_ me. But if you love to write and like to share your work, do not give up on self-publishing. Reviews mean very little, unless someone says the formatting is off or the book is riddled with atrocious grammatical errors. I have good reviews on Amazon, UK and Goodreads, have received wonderful emails from readers, and am lucky to sell two to four copies in any given month's time. Most months, none to one. My back-list is all on years of paper manuscripts, so it is a process getting all that onto the computer, editing, etc., and some days it is very difficult to continue when feeling discouraged on the one book currently offered. So, I say this again, if you love to write and share your work, do not give up. Get some more feedback on your writing and see what you can do. Don't give up.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I got a rude one-star review on Goodreads yesterday: "Couldn't even finish it."

If that had been the first review I'd received for The Catalyst I'd be throwing in the towel, too. It still bugs the heck out of me but then I look at the reviews on Amazon for that title and go "whatever, lady, next time read the preview" and move on.


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## S. Shine (Jan 14, 2013)

Ed, don't go down that route. My first review? 5 stars. My second a few hours later? A 2 star. My third? A 4 star review from a vine reviewer who closed the review with "thank you for making me think." My fourth? A 1 star review that said "it could at least be well written." All for the same story. lol

If the formatting guy you have frustrates you, get someone else. I have good experience with: http://www.polgarusstudio.com/format-your-book/ Clear communications, fast delivery, excellent product.

Hang in there, ok? 

And keep writing. Not for others but yourself and folly's sake. Indie publishing can be frustrating, and no doubt is at time for everyone. So be it. Just roll with the punches.


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## ScriptLand (Feb 9, 2013)

I agree with France.  If you want, I will beta your work, on the house.  Shoot me an email.  I hate to see people throw in the towel, well, that's partly because there's six in my household and I have an awful lot of laundry to do.  But, seriously, I won't bite.  I promise I won't even proofread or edit.  I'll just give you straight up honest feedback.  

And, I'm so not a techie, but I don't think it's hard to format an eBook.  That's small potatoes.  Writing is the meat.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Sorry to hear this but glad you're sticking around the board. Can I tell you about the horrible formatting problems I had back when I first published? For some reason, I kept getting paragraphs that would shift to almost the middle of the page. There weren't many for hire formatters then and even if there were, I couldn't have afforded one. I didn't have a Kindle even and on the Kindle for PC, it looked fine. It was so frustrating! I didn't even have MS Word, and Open Office would freeze all the time on my computer, so I was using two other free word processors (although most of the book was written on Google Docs to allow my beta to give advice as it was written--the Google Docs might have caused some of the issues.) It wasn't until I figured out how to see ALL of the html code--which I could only do using one of the free word processors, that I was able to fix it. I found the spot where I knew, via a friend who sent me a picture of the problem on her Kindle, and saw a small change in the html there. It used a code 'div' (can't remember what the right code was--but it was different). So, I copied the code where it was correctly formatted, and had to replace that code in many places throughout the book. 

Great, right? Yeah, except then I got a little over confident and decided to take out all the double spaces between sentences. I had learned to type that way, but was trying to change to one space, but I wasn't consistent. So, I did the find/replace thing. I looked at a few pages and they looked okay, so I uploaded. Huge mistake! My book had sentences that had no spaces between periods, and what was worse, in some places, there weren't even periods, just two words stuck together. A reader on another board complained about it on that board, I tried to fix it, re-uploaded, told her and she said she requested the newest copy from Amazon, but said it was still full of typos (all of this publicly, mind you.) and so I apologized yet again and said maybe she should ask for a refund. I was not being snarky. Anyway, she left a nasty one star review, then changed it to a two star for some reason, then inexplicably, about a year later, deleted the review. I have no clue why. I never responded to her after that spat and I never reported the review for any reason. 

My point being, after all of that, and fixing the book as much as I could, it ended up making it to number 15 in the Kindle store in June 2011. It hasn't come close to that since, but it does pretty well and I now have a series. I was ready to throw in the towel in November of 2010 when all of the formatting/complaints rolled in. I'm so glad I didn't.


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## timskorn (Nov 7, 2012)

As others have said, step back a bit and take a breather. Try writing a short story and get your head in another direction for a bit before you come back to it. When I wrote A Cold Black Wave, I only wanted to finish a novel. I wrote so much that I never finished, getting one *done* was the goal. If it turned out to be crap, so be it, but I knew that I would learn from it and take that into my next novel. Think that whatever comes of this book, you will learn from it and your next one will be all the better for it.

I love this quote from Stephen King:



> Running a close second [as a writing lesson] was the realization that stopping a piece of work just because it's hard, either emotionally or imaginatively, is a bad idea. Sometimes you have to go on when you don't feel like it, and sometimes you're doing good work when it feels like all you're managing is to shovel s*** from a sitting position.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

The more you write, the better you get.  Very few people produce worthy content with their first book, or their fifth.  It's a skill you have to hone.

If you enjoy writing, you should keep it up.


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## Craig Allen (Apr 2, 2011)

Don't give up. It's tempting, I know. I have very few sales under my belt. There have been times I wanted to give up as it seems no one is buying my books. But then, I only have three of them out there (and only one full length one). It could be years if I'm successful, if ever. But, if I give up now, then I absolutely won't be successful. So I'm going to keep plugging away as long as I can.

Only one person can tell your stories, and that's you. If you don't tell your stories, the world will miss out.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

Don't quit, Ed! Stick with it and keep writing. One review means nothing. Send it out to some betas and see what they have to say. Fire your formatter and get a new one. Write a couple of short stories and get your groove back. It's easy to get discouraged in this business and that's when you have to forge ahead.


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## horse_girl (Apr 9, 2010)

FranceBarnaby said:


> I'm reminded of this great passage from Ira Glass:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is me. Mind if I steal this and share on FB?

Ed, do what you feel is best for you. If you want to write, you will be compelled to keep going. If not, that's all right. Either way, I support your decision, but remember that it takes a lot of work to reach a goal and you can't define success by what everyone else is doing, only by your own measures.


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## Lissie (May 26, 2011)

What have you got to lose? If you are formatting you've put a lot of work in - publish it - see what happens - wha'ts the worst that can happen - if everyone hates it you can unpublish it! 

And seriously the formatting guy is giving you a hard time? Get in contact I do reasonably priced formatting and I"m reasonably priced and pleasent to deal with


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## CarlG (Sep 16, 2012)

Yep, writing is tough work and publishing more so. Then you get to promotion. 

If you don't like it, that's a reason to quit. If you do, it could be a reason to persevere. As you probably know from your other businesses, perseverance is a key in any field. 

Best to you. You've got my support no matter what you decide. I've enjoyed reading what you've had to say so far about the publishing process. Hope you stick around.


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## FranceBarnaby (Feb 10, 2013)

horse_girl said:


> This is me. Mind if I steal this and share on FB?


Since I technically stole it from someone else who stole it, it's probably okay. LOL. I just really like it. I'm still in that phase.


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## D.L. Shutter (Jul 9, 2011)

Ed

Trust and believe that every single person here knows what you feel and has gone through it. Maybe even more so because many of us have written more than one book that left us drowning in self doubt.

Almost everyones first novel attempt is terrible. I know my first several manuscripts were. So were my first several screeplays. Theres a reason it's called the "First Million Words of Crap" and also why the Outliers theory is so popular among writers.

Found this for you, enjoy:


> http://www.writersrelief.com/blog/2011/07/famous-author-rejection-letters/


What's not listed there: King totaled over 500 rejections. Granted, he started querying when he was like, 12, with stories about about high school grave robbers, but still.

And Harry Potter was rejected 12 times. Good thing Rowling didn't quit after 11.


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## Janet Michelson (Jun 20, 2012)

Ed, it looks like you have no choice but to persevere.  

I would like to offer you a free edit for one chapter. It doesn't have to be the first chapter. A lot can be learned from the edits from one chapter because most writers make the same mistakes over and over. FWIW.


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## T. Lee Cook (Dec 27, 2012)

Ed,

There are a lot of new authors feeling the same way. I can relate.

I don't understand it when I see over 100 reviews on an eBook that's only been out a month. I mean most readers like to read...writers like to write. When I see a 2 page 5-star review it baffles me.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)




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## T. Lee Cook (Dec 27, 2012)

JanneCO said:


>


I like this. Very cool.


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## SEAN H. ROBERTSON (Mar 14, 2011)

This thing is bad- pathetically, hysterically, epically bad. --That's the FIRST review I ever received back in November 2010. Had I thrown in the towel,  I would've passed up 1200+ book sales since then. Publish your works and let the readers (not the critics) decide your authoring fate.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

Yep. What the others said. If you love writing, don't give up. You'll get better but heaven forbid you'll ever be completely satisfied.

Maybe look at doing your formatting yourself. It's not that difficult, and I'm always prepared to help you or give you pointers.

Whatever you decide, good luck.


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## jasonzc (Dec 23, 2011)

I empathize. For me, it's the loss of my muse/girlfriend that has me down. I just don't care about writing right now. I've gotten a few one and two-star reviews, the sales aren't there. It can be depressing. Writing used to make me happy.

But the good thing is, when you do feel like writing and publishing again, everything is in place. This could be a good opportunity for you to rewrite your existing work. And you are the ultimate arbiter of taste. One of my books is rocking a 2.58 stars on Goodreads right now, and I wouldn't change a word of it.

Write for yourself first, and the market second. 

Or don't write. That's valid, too. Some people can't not write. Some of us can take it or leave it, I guess.


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## T. Lee Cook (Dec 27, 2012)

jasonzc said:


> Write for yourself first, and the market second.


Awesome.


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## Sharebear (Sep 25, 2011)

France and JA excellent images.

You can do it. If you want to, you can make it happen Ed.

P.S. This thread has been inspiring to read. I love the support here.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh, gosh, don't quit if you enjoy writing! Formatting is quite simple. Trust me, I had NO CLUE when I did my first book and I got through it. If you need help, ask questions on this board and you will get help. I don't know what program you wrote it in, but I use Word so I can help there. I don't have any trouble converting to the various sites with word, but there are steps you need to follow. PM me if you used word and need help.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

I think every single writer, at some point or another, feels _done_. There are simply two things you can do ...

1. Walk away. Get some distance between you and the book -- seriously, it helps. Take a nap, watch a movie, have a beer (or two, or three), read something that, in beginning, inspired you want to write (there must be one book that encouraged you) ... and then sleep on it. For days. For weeks even, if you must. Do everything BUT write. When you miss the feeling of the keys under your fingers and your words on the screen, you'll know this part has passed and you can, once again, proceed.

...or...

2. Quit for good, severe the ties. Yank your book, bury it or burn it or file it away. Find something else that inspires you -- another hobby or job -- there will be something. Throw yourself into, find your passion, do something that makes you happy. Take comfort in knowing that there are "new" writers emerging every single day...some will stomach the bad with the good and others won't. It just like being a babysitter or a salesman or a doctor. Just because you "like" the idea, doesn't mean the idea will "like" you back. No shame. You tried it, it wasn't for you...and that is okay.

I've had my fair share of "ouchies" in the profession ... I've been accused of being manipulative (by a reader), I've been told I'm illiterate and my 5-star reviews are junk because 5-star reviews are for the classics, I've been my books are boring, slow, and other's have said they are too fast and others have loved them. Them's the breaks of doing something personal in front of the whole world. Not a single one of us gets out unscathed. Good meet bad. Pride meet reality check.

I hope you chose option 1 because ALL work has merit and a place and an audience. Keeping on keeping on in the moment is SO much easier then sitting back five years from now wondering what would have happened if you had.


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## MLKatz (Sep 8, 2012)

If you quit because of a bad review, the trolls score. That's not fair to the rest of us. 

If the review is legitimate, learn from it and grow.


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## RoseInTheTardis (Feb 2, 2013)

Just here to offer support. I hit the "eff this, I'm going to stop writing and open up a cupcake food truck" at least three times a year. So I know the feeling. Or at least i have a vague idea of it since we're all different.

There's so much discouraging about writing and so little support*, it's a wonder any of us ever keep at it. And obviously, you have to do what you feel is right. But blow off some steam, read some 1-star reviews of your favorite books (they all have them), and remember no one writes for everyone.



JanneCO said:


>


This is awesome. And I love that word-graphic with the Ira Glass quote too.

*That is why places like this board really matter.


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## SunHi Mistwalker (Feb 28, 2012)

Wow, there's so much love on this thread. I just want to add my voice of encouragement. Don't give up. You never know what tomorrow will bring.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

Everyone gets upset sometimes. If I would have thrown in the towel after a few setbacks last July, I wouldn't have almost 1k sales under my belt right now. If my wife would have given up her writing after a bad review or two, she wouldn't have written an extremely successful book and gotten almost 1k sales within 1.5 months!

I got a 1-star the other day because one of my shorts was "short." I laughed about it and went back to work writing. How do you know your book is bad if you haven't even tried to publish it yet? Throw it up there and work on a few more. See what happens. It sure as heck can't hurt to try. You can do it!


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

On the other hand, if it's not what you want to do, it's not what you want to do.

Take some time, figure it out. If it's not what you want to do, move on and have no regrets.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

RoseInTheTardis said:


> Just here to offer support. I hit the "eff this, I'm going to stop writing and open up a cupcake food truck" at least three times a year.


Do you watch Cupcake Wars too? I never knew a cupcake could be so complicated! I always think it would be fun to own a cupcake bakery and the fact that I've only made one cake from scratch in my life has not deterred me from fantasizing about doing this.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I say, go ahead and quit if you feel like quitting.

Writing and publishing aren't easy. If there's something else you're curious about, go and explore it.

You are free and nobody here can guarantee any outcome on any path.

You are free! And you're free to start back up in a month or a year. Or become an amazing beta reader for other writers. Or start a book review blog.

I quit on a regular basis. I've quit many things, which freed me up to quit other things. I quit a pen name and started another. I quit a novel one-third in. 

I can tell you writing and publishing has been hard for me, personally, and I'm currently glad I started up after every time I've quit so far. But I don't walk in your shoes.


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## RoseInTheTardis (Feb 2, 2013)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Do you watch Cupcake Wars too? I never knew a cupcake could be so complicated! I always think it would be fun to own a cupcake bakery and the fact that I've only made one cake from scratch in my life has not deterred me from fantasizing about doing this.


Hahaha! I do. I'm glad you're on board. When we finally throw in the towel, we can go into business together. I make great cake!


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

Look at it this way: you now have the bad review out the way. Things can only improve from here.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I think this is a situation where early encouragement may have done more harm than good.

I'm of the tough love variety.

Someone I know was whining on a forum (not the Kindleboards) about not being able to sell anything to magazines. I messaged him personally and told him to put a sock in it or FFS go and take up croquet. I also told him that if he wanted to be serious about writing, I'd help him with his stories, but chances were he would need to hear some uncomfortable things before he got better. I told him he would hate me so much that he'd do everything "just to prove the bitch wrong".

I commented on his stories. His writing skills were OK but his plots were incoherent.

I told him to take my comments and do with them whatever he wanted, except argue back at me about how wrong I was, and put all that anger into writing.

He has sold a number of stories since.

We're still friends  

The moral is you have to put the hard work in and keep learning. People who tell you that your writing sucks may be more motivational than those who tell you that all is fine and dandy without actually looking at the work in question. Every writer needs to hear bad news at some point. It's probably a good idea to get the bad news out of the way before you get any Amazon reviews. If you haven't already done so, join a crit group or do a few courses. If you have done so, get an eagle-eyed writer to look at your plots and logic (not friends or family--OF COURSE they will say nice things about your work). 

If you have done all this, you can probably safely ignore the odd bad review.

And, as Andrew said, formatting is not that hard.

The easiest trick in the book:

Unless you have any graphics in your book (and really, since when does fiction need graphics?), simply use the DOC file you upload to Smashwords for Amazon once Smashwords accepts it without trouble. It works a treat and even checks for typos.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Most people who write initially started writing for themselves, not for other people.  Some write because they (we?) have to, we have stories we feel the need to tell.... the old "fire in the belly" thing.  (Or, as I once called it, the pebble in the shoe thing.)

If you're writing because YOU want to, that's great.  Writing because you want to make a Hugh Howey amount of money... not so great, because we're not all Hugh Howeys.  Some of us only sell enough books to pay for our coffee habit each month (for me it's tea).  Some of us have books that don't seem to get any reviews.  But we still do it.

Only you can decide if you want to keep writing and publishing.  (Or writing, period.)  But take the pressure off yourself and you'll probably enjoy it more, even the long sloggy parts that cause us to swear and want to 'kick the cat.' *  I have very low expectations and I'm proud to say I meet those expectations every day.   


* don't hate me, 'kick the cat' is just a phrase.  I'm a feline-o-phile and would never kick my little princess (see avatar).  Even though she sometime deserves it.  But still, I wouldn't.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

EdShull said:


> I'm thinking I'm done with my self-publishing experiment. I wrote something, and I was encouraged by someone to finish and submit it to a publisher. I showed a couple more friends, and they were all supportive. I decided to write something different, and they said they liked that too. So I decided to self-publish. I got the book edited and got a really nice cover. But I promised myself to not move forward if I thought the book wasn't very good.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the book isn't good enough now. The closest I can get to an objective review came back pretty bad. Between that, and dealing with a formatting guy I'm pretty sure takes the little bus to work, I'm out of steam with the whole thing.
> 
> ...


I don't know. I read this and it doesn't look to me like you're writing or publishing for yourself, or because you like what you're writing. If I were to read between the lines on this I could say that _other people_ thought you were a pretty good writer and you started to see dollar signs. Then more _other people_ continued to like what you wrote and self-publishing blew up so you saw more dollar signs. Then you spent a bundle on covers and formatting (I think I saw another thread where you detailed this) but the dollars didn't materialize to match the dollar signs so now you want to throw in the towel.

So quit. It doesn't seem to me like you are writing because you love to write or because you love to tell a story or because you want to engage with an audience. From your original post it looks like you want to publish because someone "encouraged you."

Quit. Or Don't quit. It's no sweat off my back. To be honest, I'm not even sure why you needed to announce it here.


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## Vanessa L (Dec 4, 2012)

I fully expect my first book to suck. Big time, and maybe the second too. I might consider throwing in the towel if the third one sucks too, but maybe not. 

A lot of people on here have written about how their writing has improved over time. I'm taking that lesson to heart, and I'm going to keep going until I get one I like. 

Maybe walk away and write a short story? Write something just for fun? You never know, when you get back to it you might suddenly see the key that makes it all come together. 

Someone encouraged you once, so what you've written isn't completely awful, you can trust that .

Good luck!

Edited for typos


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

If writing and publishing doesn't kick your butt from time to time, you aren't working hard enough. We've all been there, and we'll all be back. It never gets easier. 

Some good advice here. If you don't take it, Ed, I will.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Posting on a tablet so I'll be swift:

- Gotta have a tough skin to survive in this market. Don't ignore negative feedback, but learn from it. Scrapping a book you think is good because someone thinks is bad is silly. Down with the haters!
- From Hugh Howey to lowly plebs such as I, the main factor we all have in common is that we're all too dumb and bone headed to give up.

Don't let it get it down!


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## cpasley (Mar 13, 2013)

Hey man, I was the guy who thought he'd be published by 16.  I remember sending Marion Zimmer Bradley Magazine a story and getting a personal rejection letter from her when I was 15.  (need to see if I still have that)  From as long as I can remember, all I wanted to do was write.

I'm 33 now.  I went through a lot of phases in my life, and in a lot of them I gave up on writing.  When I was a jazz major, I thought I was over it.  Then I found it again when I switched majors.  When I got into working on videogames, I thought that was all I needed for a creative outlet, and the writing went away again.  The rut of submitting to agents, waiting three months for a rejection and resubmitting... I couldn't do it anymore, especially trying to fit it into those windows where writing was once again important to me.  Then my wife and daughter went on vacation with her parents for two weeks.  I decided, after hearing about Hugh Howey, that damn it, why not throw the one book I'd written that I didn't hate afterwards out there and see what happens?  

As with a lot of creatives, my ego is a weird thing.  I sell a few books, get a few reviews -- holy crap, I'm the best writer in the world.  A few negatives, slow sales -- why did I do this?  This book is crap!  

But what's helped me is finding that there are people out there who love it!  Even if it's tiny, I have a little bit of an audience.  Even if someone tears it apart, I can turn to the positive reviews and see that, at least to someone, it has value.

I'm not saying this will happen to you -- I don't know your book or your writing.  But odds are, unless you can't put more than three words together at a time, there's at least a few people out there to whom your story will resonate.  It does you no harm to try, and at least for those people, you will have brought them some enjoyment.  

Anyway, best of luck to you, whatever you decide.  This may be one of your fallow times, and you'll pick it up again later, like I did.  There's no running clock.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

I've been playing the violin for 23 years and teaching it for 5. I still don't know everything there is to know about music and I've yet to meet someone who can play Paganini immediately after learning Twinkle.

I'll just start telling my students that if they can't play this after three lessons they should quit:


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Scrapping a book you think is good because someone thinks is bad is silly.


Bingo. If no-one hates your book you're probably doing it wrong; if Dan Brown listened to me he wouldn't be a bazillionaire.

Of course if everyone hates your book, you're also probably doing it wrong .


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Wow, that's a lot of replies. I figured I'd get a few _stick with it's_, but this is pretty overwhelming. Thank you for being so supportive.

I respect the people here because they have a passion for writing. I'm not sure I have that passion. I enjoy it, and it gets me away from my problems for a short time. I just took some peoples' enthusiasm to heart. I wrote this book in 10 days, and I didn't think it was great then. But when I showed it to a couple friends, they were over-the-top enthusiastic. I tried to get unbiased feedback, but that was a challenge.

After the book was edited and polished, I still didn't love it. But others seem to. I have the resources to market a book, and you guys have been very helpful at pointing me in some great directions. But the type of rejection I got today, from the first real place I submitted it that would have any risk involved in it being bad... it's hard to explain how much they must have hated it.

It's not that I'm devastated they hated my book, I don't feel I put enough work into it for it to be a great book. It's more the embarrassment of getting wrapped up in the idea I wrote a good book. I, like many people, would loved to have been a writer instead of my current occupation.

But you guys are really great. I'm going to at least see this one through. Even though I have friends that have been very supportive, there is something about a group of people like the ones on this board, putting their hearts and souls into being writers. You guys are the real deal. I can't help but think going through the publisher is really the _vanity publishing_ these days. You're all very inspiring.

But, Nathan Wrann... Why would anyone go into writing for the money? I do ok on money now. Not sure what all the hostility was for. I just wanted to share on the board, and tell everyone how inspiring they are. Sorry it upset you.


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

EdShull said:


> It's more the embarrassment of getting wrapped up in the idea I wrote a good book. I, like many people, would loved to have been a writer instead of my current occupation.


And dude...you *are*.

Untold thousands of people say, "Eh. I'd like to write a book someday." Or, "Yeah I'm a writer," but then never actually write anything.

You wrote a freaking book. That puts you head and shoulders above a whole lot of folks who talk a good game but never even bothered to try. Ok, so maybe you didn't think you did as well as you could have. Or maybe some person doesn't like it. For the later: screw 'em. He/she is not God's gift to all that is great and awesome. He's just...a person. One person, whose opinion, though maybe containing some merit, is not the sum total of all existence on this, or any other, planet.

And for the former... Well if you don't think you did as well as you wanted to, there's always next time. Move on to the next story. Or, if you feel that strongly about it, throw the book out and rewrite it. By that I mean re-_write_ it. From the beginning, completely. You're a much better writer now than you were when you started this project. By definition, because you've been working on your skills the whole time you wrote it. Maybe doing it again will come out more to your liking.

But then again maybe, just maybe, you need to let it simmer through a few more projects before you can really do this one justice.

A year or so ago, shortly after I finished my first novel, Masters of the Sun (you can see it down there in my sig - did I mention how much Jeroen ten Berge kicks ass at cover art, by the way?  ) I got an idea for a truly epic, awesome, amazing story. I sat down and began to write it. I got the prologue and a few chapters done, and the very ending (because, like Robert Jordan, the first thing I saw when I thought of the story were the final scenes). And then I stopped. Because I realized that to truly do this story justice I would need a hell of a huge book, and writing chops that I did not have yet. So I set it aside and worked on other things, but that story is still simmering in my head. I'll come back to it in a bit, when I'm ready. And when I'm able to truly do it justice. But in the meantime, I'm writing as much as I can to get much skills up to where they need to be.

Of course, I'm not just writing a ton so I can do justice to that _one_ story. But it's something I think on from time to time, almost as a motivator. Maybe this particular story you're talking about is something like that. Maybe you just need to practice a bit (or a lot) before you can really do it justice.

All that is a really long-winded way of saying, "Try not to get discouraged, bro. You rock more than you know. Hang in there and don't give up just because things seem bad right now."

You know, Colonel Sanders had something like sixty different businesses tell him his chicken sucked before he finally found an investor so he could create Kentucky Fried Chicken. Just saying...



If that's not enough to help, how about taking a listen to the awesome Mur Lafferty talking about motivation on the I Should Be Writing Podcast. She's always good for a pick-me-up.

Good luck man.

Warm Regards,
Alexei


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with quitting. We're all going to quit some day. But not today.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

There's so much good advice on this thread--both positive and negative. I slurped it up, because I don't believe there is a writer alive who hasn't been in the creative pits, several times. I certainly have.

Just step back and take a breath, Ed. There's no hurry, and there's no law that says you have to write or not write. Your gut, or for those of us who prefer more fanciful expressions, your writer's heart is in charge of that decision. 

I gave some advice (which is generally bad, I admit) to a writer friend once when she was in those pits. "Stop writing--for three months--just stop," I said. "Do other things, don't go within sniffing distance of a keyboard." I thought I was incredibly wise.

She looked at me as if I'd told her to drown a litter of kittens. Shocked she was and, I think, vaguely insulted. She countered with, "I _can't_ do that!" And yes there was an exclamation point involved.

In her case, she hoisted her heavy pen and soldiered on, because she _*had*_ to. And, yes, the story had a happy ending; a couple of years later, she joined the ranks of the NY midlist brigade.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope it makes you happy--and I wish you good luck.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> I gave some advice (which is generally bad, I admit) to a writer friend once when she was in those pits. "Stop writing--for three months--just stop," I said. "Do other things, don't go within sniffing distance of a keyboard." I thought I was incredibly wise.


But this was actually good advice, because it made her realise what she did NOT want to do.

Advice is not for people to blindly follow it. It's for helping them make up their mind.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2013)

Hey man--no shame in quitting.  Most of us quit at least once, and all of us certainly think about it sometime.  It takes a lot of guts to put it all out there, and even more to try and build a career successful enough to earn a meager living.  Whether your decision is final or now is just not the right time, I've enjoyed rubbing shoulders on the boards here and wish you the best.


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## KP_Webster (Mar 11, 2013)

I knew I loved this place. I've tried a lot of similar boards over the years and none of them felt like they had the right combination of passion, compassion and levelheadedness. Plus exactly the right amount of unpleasantness (barely any) (but some).

What a wonderful thread this is. I wasn't thinking of quitting at all but I found it inspiring anyway.

But Ed, I would say that 10 days is nowhere near enough to time to write a good novel - that's like painting the ceiling of an enormous chapel in a quarter of an hour. Seriously, you can't do a good job in that time. I mean, _no one_ could do a good job in that time. Not Cormac McCarthy. Not Amanda Hocking. If you enjoyed the experience though, why not write another?

Good luck!


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

A number of KB regulars write novels in very short periods of time. Some in 10 days or less. Also, Amanda Hocking has, to the best of my knowledge, drafted a novel more than once in a week and a half.

Also, most novels are not works of art, though some great novels have been written (and revised) quickly.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

If you're not happy with it, it's re-write time, not quitting time.  

Get a couple beta readers and get cracking. You're too close, to quit.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Look, if we're going to start on how long it should take to write a good novel (define "good" for starters), I'm outta here. World wars have started over less divisive subjects.

Let's just say that everyone takes however long they need, but in general you can say that each individual needs a training period before he or she can write good novels in whatever number of days will be his or her natural per-novel writing time.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Look, if we're going to start on how long it should take to write a good novel (define "good" for starters), I'm outta here. World wars have started over less divisive subjects.
> 
> Let's just say that everyone takes however long they need, but in general you can say that each individual needs a training period before he or she can write good novels in whatever number of days will be his or her natural per-novel writing time.


Everyone knows it takes 23.4 days.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Apparently it takes 30 days. The number of days in NaNoWriMo.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Ed, you've gotten some great advice and support. Only you know if you should stop.

I will say that the only thing I've regretted over the years were all the times I gave up on writing, for whatever reason I used at the time.

I've been down a lot lately, doubting my self and my ability. But I'm not going to quit again. I may not achieve my dream (to be the next Stephen King. Honestly.), but I'm going to write, because it is the song my soul sings.

Edited for: danged typo typos


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Wow does that sound familiar.
I felt the same way when I wrote my first book, Superman's Cape, and grew frustrated with the formatting and cover, etc. etc. It's work – plain and simple.

Ask yourself, do you like writing? Do you love writing? If so then go ahead and publish it. And don't get discouraged when a few bad reviews come up. They will. They always will.

Hang in there. First one is the toughest.


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## Jeroen Steenbeeke (Feb 3, 2012)

Ask yourself this: If I don't write, can I be happy?

If the answer is yes, then there is no harm in quitting, but if the answer is no, then it's probably best to continue. Maybe take a break, like some of the others suggested.


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## KP_Webster (Mar 11, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> Look, if we're going to start on how long it should take to write a good novel (define "good" for starters), I'm outta here.


Right. Would you at least agree that it's highly unlikely that a novel written in 10 days is going to be any good? (I'm happy to go with your definition of "good".)



Patty Jansen said:


> Let's just say that everyone takes however long they need....


But they don't. Most people take a lot less time than they need. And most people, whether they're new to writing or not, need more than 10 days to write a novel. Writing - novel-writing especially - is generally accepted to be an extremely time-consuming practice. This is not some massively contentious idea. I'm not sure why you're talking about world wars and being "outta here".


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

KP_Webster said:


> And most people, whether they're new to writing or not, need more than 10 days to write a novel. Writing - novel-writing especially - is generally accepted to be an extremely time-consuming practice. T


Yeah, kinda thinking that. I can imagine that someone with really quick fingers and a brain to match can churn out a book in 10 days (although some people say "book" when they mean short story, as I've noticed). But 10 days doesn't even get you into the blood sweat and tears realm for long enough to be truly a suffering artist.
If the OP had hovered over the story for six months or a year or even longer, giving it his all, I'd be very sympathetic. But to put in ten days, some money, and then come apart when things don't click seems a little extreme.


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

Heck, I'm selling fair numbers of some things and I think about quitting. I've been asked not to quit in a reviewand that gives me some heart for the fight.

I noticed two - yes two - errors in the prep work for the print book (and contacted support and will do whatever is needed to fix them) but I'm not good at the endless grinding nitty gritty that goes along with this. I don't do frustration well (just trust me on this, don't ask for examples) and this business is full of them.

I love the writing. When it's going well. I love the ideas. When they come together nicely and you think something really new.

I love the writing. I put up with all the rest.

So, carry on writing. Carry on enjoying it. No sweat. No need to publish. I would write if I never made another cent from it. Can't stop.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Alan Petersen said:


> Everyone knows it takes 23.4 days.


You know, you are probably pretty close to right on the money with that comment even though I know you were kidding.  If I actually wrote 8 hours a day, and with a conservative speed of 500 words/hour--I usually can write about 900 or so in an hour--which isn't very fast. I know someone who can easily churn out about 1500 in an hour. Anyway, at mine, with 4k/day, it comes out to about 94k words in 23.4 days. It even gives some padding to cut out quite a bit.


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

EdShull said:


> Thank you for being so supportive.


Isn't this place great?!



EdShull said:


> I respect the people here because they have a passion for writing. I'm not sure I have that passion. I enjoy it, and it gets me away from my problems for a short time.


This is good to know.



EdShull said:


> It's not that I'm devastated they hated my book, I don't feel I put enough work into it for it to be a great book. It's more the embarrassment of getting wrapped up in the idea I wrote a good book.


Embarrassment is a common feeling when someone doesn't like your work, doesn't need to be writing. But acknowledging that you may not have taken enough time to create work you're confident in should be an indicator that it's not done yet.



EdShull said:


> I, like many people, would loved to have been a writer instead of my current occupation.


Writing ain't a cake walk. A couple months prior, an article in The Paris Review detailed Julian Tepper, a young author, walking up to Philip Roth, showing him his (Julian's) first book book and saying, "Sir, I've heard you say that you don't read fiction anymore, but I've just had my first novel published and I'd like to give you a copy." Brazen to be sure, but admirable. Philip Roth responded, "...I would quit while you're ahead. Really, it's an awful field. Just torture. Awful. You write and write, and you have to throw almost all of it away because it's not any good. I would say just stop now. You don't want to do this to yourself. That's my advice to you."

Roth is right. It can be an awful, torturous field. It's flippin' work. When you quit follow Dayla's generous advice. Allow yourself the freedom to quit. Forgive yourself. Learn and move on. You now know what it is to write a book. It ain't easy, it's a novel.  Good luck in your future endeavors, Ed. And if you return to writing, we'll still be here.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

i say if the book is done and you have a kick-ass cover, upload it. maybe put it in select and do some free runs.  or not. don't market it beyond some easy, cheap stuff. try not to think about it too much. (hard, i know.) you need more than one response/review/reaction, even if that came from someone who should know about this stuff. the books i've written that were loathed by agents or editors are the ones that readers have embraced. you just don't know.  and a couple i loved were trashed by readers.  you just don't know. 

on the other hand, some of the happiest writers i know are the writers who quit.

and i still talk to them. we still hang out.  because i also think that the writers who quit worry about losing their tribe. does happen, but not always.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

EdShull said:


> But, Nathan Wrann... Why would anyone go into writing for the money? I do ok on money now. Not sure what all the hostility was for. I just wanted to share on the board, and tell everyone how inspiring they are. Sorry it upset you.


Nobody writes for the money. Everybody publishes for the money. You attribute your start to others giving you encouragement. Were you encouraged to write or were you encouraged to publish? Are you quitting writing or quitting publishing?

And I hardly think that putting down your pen after writing one book in 10 days can be considered "quitting," you've hardly even begun.

And I'm not upset. Like I said, quit or don't quit, it's no sweat off my back. But I'm still not sure why you announced your retirement here. Unless you were just looking for more encouragement.

p.s. how come you don't have your book linked in your signature?


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

This is copied and pasted from another board. I wrote this about a year ago when asked if I'd ever quit.

_Not yet I haven't. But then, I haven't finished my WIP yet. I don't know what kind of intestinal fortitude I'll have if I finish my book, send it out and watch it get rejected repeatedly, then self-pub and see it sit there with only family and friends buying the thing. I read the brokenhearted pleas on all kinds of forums. The "what am I doing wrong" threads. They're everywhere. Dejected people who feel like they're walking all alone down the dark corridors of their minds, nobody wants to read what they have to say. They're confused, humiliated, depressed. I want to give them all a hug, but that would be patronizing. Who's to say how I'd react if I went there? Up to now it's been all promise. There's potential there. Daydreams. Reality is certain to fall far short of the daydreams, it almost invariably does, and that's hard to take.

But here's the thing, I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've never tried any harder to achieve anything in my life like I'm trying at writing. Not playing footabll. Not at school. Not at work. I don't have the conentration to focus on something that bores me long enough to put my all into it, and up to now, everything I've tried eventually bored me. Not this. So, if that's the case, how the hell could I ever give up? Even if I'm the only one who ever reads my stuff, I don't see it ever happenning._

My question to you is, can you honestly say that you have never tried harder to accomplish anything like you tried writing? Did you give it all you've got? If not, then don't quit.


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## heavycat (Feb 14, 2011)

Jessica Hoshi says










Don't give up!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

This is more of a generic thought on the current state of self-pubbing than directed toward the poster.  Just wanted to clear that up before anyone starts throwing stones. 

I think self-publishing is great, but I also think it will eventually exist to weed out those who should be doing this and those who shouldn't.  The question at that point will be: will people bow out with grace or will they hang on with their fingernails like a politician who's been convicted of a crime but refuses to step down?  (I've already seen more than a few of those latter, and it ain't pretty).

This is a question I've asked myself dozens of times over the past two years. I'd like to hope that if I come to that crossroads, I'll do the former.

My advice: Decide where that metaphorical line in the sand is...that point where you'll make that judgement call (and no, that shouldn't be one bad review).  If you decide to stay, then commit to it and good luck to you.  If not, then hold your head high.  You tried, and as long as you feel you gave it your best shot there is no shame in that.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

The other angle is this.  Some people have just one book in them.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Harper Lee.  But you have to at least give it a go before leaving it behind.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Ed, If you love writing, keep writing. You should get better every week you put into it.

For most this race is a turtle race who in time leave many of the rabbits in the dust. 1 or 2 books is not a reasonable criteria to use to judge your writing. Very few have a big success with their first book or two. Very few.

Sounds like you have 1 or 2 ready to go. Get them up and let the readers tell you what they think...not friends or reviewers. If it is just God awful the readers will tell you.

If you need a formatter email Jason Anderson he does excellent work. Have a good cover, a good story and good formatting and you are good to go.


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## FranceBarnaby (Feb 10, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> _But here's the thing, I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've never tried any harder to achieve anything in my life like I'm trying at writing. Not playing footabll. Not at school. Not at work. I don't have the conentration to focus on something that bores me long enough to put my all into it, and up to now, everything I've tried eventually bored me. Not this. So, if that's the case, how the hell could I ever give up? Even if I'm the only one who ever reads my stuff, I don't see it ever happenning._


I'm glad you reposted this, being new here I had not seen it. It's well thought out. Thanks for sharing it again.

I can relate completely with being bored with many things (and I've tried many things). Writing has been the one thing that I look forward to everyday. That's what I think about on my way to work. That's what I think about at work. That's what I think about when I fall asleep. I've had hobbies and obsessions before, but none that have lasted this long or that have been this intense.

What I've had to fight is the urge to move on to the next story. There's just so many ideas bouncing around my head that it's hard to stick to one.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

KP_Webster said:


> But Ed, I would say that 10 days is nowhere near enough to time to write a good novel - that's like painting the ceiling of an enormous chapel in a quarter of an hour. Seriously, you can't do a good job in that time. I mean, _no one_ could do a good job in that time. Not Cormac McCarthy. Not Amanda Hocking. If you enjoyed the experience though, why not write another?


Actually, "fast drafting" is a valid technique. I don't use it personally, but I know a lot of very good and very prolific writers who do, in fact, write the first draft of their novels in less than 2 weeks.

The key there being "first draft." When drafted that quickly you do need a substantial amount of revision, but revision is key to any writing.

Anyway, back to Ed...you say the book has been "edited." What form of editing? Content/developmental editing? Line editing? Copyediting? If the latter and you didn't do any substantial revision or seek critique on it before sending it to the copyeditor (other than giving it to some readers who said it was good), then yeah, you probably still have quite a bit of work to do. But that dosn't mean it isn't salvagable or that you should give up, particularly since you've already invested in the cover art, etc.

But I do generally caution against publishing the first thing you write. For the overwehlming majority of writers, their first book is their learning book, never to see the light of day.

Anyway, give up or don't gie up. It's your choice. Most of us give up several times...and thenm come back.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

My best suggestion?  If you like to write and want to publish, try another work entirely.  Take what you learned from this work and apply it to the next as  you write it.  Everyone gets burned out on a work sometimes.  You can always go back to it even a year later.  Or you can scrap it and move on.

Best of luck!
Jodi


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> "I think self-publishing is great, but I also think it will eventually exist to weed out those who should be doing this and those who shouldn't. "


With most economic endeavors, I'd agree. But we are faced with the fact that there was a very large slush pile before eBooks existed. People kept writing and submitting stuff even though it never got published. They kept trying.

So I don't expect anything different with eBooks. I suspect the economic analysis has to incorporate intangible rewards to the author. We can't pass judgement on those intangibles like we can on sales.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

NathanWrann said:


> Nobody writes for the money. Everybody publishes for the money. You attribute your start to others giving you encouragement. Were you encouraged to write or were you encouraged to publish? Are you quitting writing or quitting publishing?
> 
> And I hardly think that putting down your pen after writing one book in 10 days can be considered "quitting," you've hardly even begun.
> 
> ...


Really Mr.Wrann, is there any need? I think Mr.Shull should be encouraged not interrogated.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Ed, I had missed the part where you say you don't really love writing and your first book only took you 10 days. Um. If you don't feel a need to write and you don't love writing--why bother? 10 days is an fast book. What did your editor think and what do you think?

Think it over and either quit or don't quit.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

DAWearmouth said:


> Really Mr.Wrann, is there any need? I think Mr.Shull should be encouraged not interrogated.


We can't ask questions? We should just blindly respond with encouragement even though we don't really know why he writes, why he's quitting or what he's quitting? Ok.

Ed, Don't quit. Don't ever give up. Never say die.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

Ed, 

Best of luck to you in any endeavour you choose!


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

NathanWrann said:


> We can't ask questions? We should just blindly respond with encouragement even though we don't really know why he writes, why he's quitting or what he's quitting? Ok.
> 
> Ed, Don't quit. Don't ever give up. Never say die.


Your line of questioning seemed aggressive, I apologise if this kind of colloquial brashness is normal in the Writers Cafe.


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

The only (good) reason to write is because you enjoy writing. If you don't, quit, and spend your time doing something you enjoy. If you enjoy writing, stick with it and you'll get better over time.

Most people's early writing is bad. Just like your earliest efforts at anything are typically bad, from walking to riding a bike to sports, to your job whatever it might be. You improve with time (and it's your support group's role to encourage you for effort more than for the quality of the results.)

In the old days, the typical writer did a LOT of writing before you made it to readers. We fogies share tales of how many rejections we received before getting anything published (and how many we continue to get after that first break). But in this new world of self-publishing you have the choice to put on your big boy shorts and step onto the court with the NBA players of writing, and their fans with their high expectations. It's daunting, and many are ill-prepared for the the reaction they will likely receive.

If that public reaction is more than you can stomach, maybe self-publishing isn't for you, or isn't for you at this stage. But that's entirely independent of writing. Try submitting to indie presses instead--they're a filter you can use to privately judge if the quality of your work is up to snuff rather than hearing it publicly from readers. Try online critique groups to get feedback from unbiased strangers. Self-publishing isn't going anywhere. It'll still be here when any individual writer is ready.


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## Howietzer (Apr 18, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> We can't ask questions? We should just blindly respond with encouragement even though we don't really know why he writes, why he's quitting or what he's quitting? Ok.
> 
> Ed, Don't quit. Don't ever give up. Never say die.


Hot Damn! Your posts never cease to make me laugh.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

You don't have to wake up every morning and just love writing to be a writer. I'm not one of those people. I wake up every morning anxious to check my email for what's going to be exciting today? But I keep fingers in a bunch of different industries/businesses that make me a nice stay-at-home-Mom pay.

A couple of options I didn't see mentioned:

Get Jutoh. It's $40 and will let you format your own documents in mobi and epub. Best $40 I ever spent. And it works on everything, Windows, Mac, and Linux.

You want to learn how to format books yourself anyway, and this is coming from a former ebook formatter. If you format them yourself, YOU can make changes when you release more books etc.

Consider using a pen name you don't hate for your first few books. That way, if they totally suck, you're fine. You can release new books later on completely untouched by the old pen name. If the book takes off, then you're protected somewhat from crazy people showing up on your lawn and you can keep publishing under that name. 

You're going to learn a TON of stuff by being brave and clicking PUBLISH that people just can't teach you or explain until you do it for yourself. There is nothing like making mistakes because those are the lessons you always remember. 

And, I will be in the minority and say every book doesn't have to be literary gold. Or even good. It can be entertaining, though-provoking, a good deal, something that didn't suck, something that did suck, a book for the ages, or a book not even worth archiving. We need ALL of those types of books out there, because each of those books has readers that like them, or dislike them and then learn what they do like, etc. Every book has an audience, just not every audience is for every book. 

Good luck!


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

EdShull said:


> I respect the people here because they have a passion for writing. I'm not sure I have that passion. I enjoy it, and it gets me away from my problems for a short time. I just took some peoples' enthusiasm to heart. I wrote this book in 10 days, and I didn't think it was great then. But when I showed it to a couple friends, they were over-the-top enthusiastic. I tried to get unbiased feedback, but that was a challenge.
> 
> After the book was edited and polished, I still didn't love it.


For me, if I didn't love what I wrote, then it wouldn't be worth it and I certainly wouldn't put it "out there". You should be your first, best fan. If you aren't, then I think you missed something in the writing.

It doesn't bother me when I get a lukewarm or bad review because I wrote my books for myself and I _still_ love the characters, story, settings, and everything else. I get satisfaction from the worldbuilding, the creation of the characters, and, of course, the writing. The icing on the cake is when someone else gets some enjoyment out of it, but that isn't primarily why I write. If you're not getting some joy out of the process, then what's the point? Writing takes too many hours, too much effort, and doesn't pay well enough (for me, anyway) for me to do it for any other reason than that it's just something I feel I have to do.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I wrote a novel (The Far Horizon, in sig file below) in ten days. But that was the first draft, and I sure as heck didn't show that to anyone. Flinging together a novel in ten days is perfectly possible. But I bet my bottom dollar that after ten days, it's probably not in a state you'd want to publish it.


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## S. Shine (Jan 14, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> I wrote a novel (The Far Horizon, in sig file below) in ten days. But that was the first draft, and I sure as heck didn't show that to anyone. Flinging together a novel in ten days is perfectly possible. But I bet my bottom dollar that after ten days, it's probably not in a state you'd want to publish it.


The links in your sig aren't working for me. Don't know if that's for every one, but wanted to let you know in case that does need fixing.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

I do feel a bit better today. I tend to be impatient, and the idea of having to go back and do another edit, especially when I thought I was ready to go, took the wind out of my sails. But it's my first book, and it's silly to feel that I got it right the first time.

Amanda, I went though a full edit (content, developmental, copy), and they did a good job. I actually had two editors. I had one go through it with me in detail, and then had a second one review the manuscript and give some feedback. I took that feedback to the other editor and discussed it. Then I had the whole thing proof read by a third party proof reader. I guess that's a big part of why I thought I was good to go.

I have since went back through and identified, with the help of people's feedback, the problem areas. Fixing those may not give me a great book, but I can see where it would make for better reading. I got some great feedback on the book from people here, and I'm really appreciative for that.

I feel like I should just ignore the Nathan guy. But I have to ask him, why would my book be in my signature if I don't yet have a book? Very odd question.

I took everyone else's advice, took a breath and I'm once again looking at what can make this better. I hope to annoy Nathan again sometime when I tell everyone I published my book.

_Tone, please. --Betsy_


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Pfft! Dumb me. I had an extra bit of code in there! Thanks for letting me know. It works now.


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> I wrote a novel (The Far Horizon, in sig file below) in ten days. But that was the first draft, and I sure as heck didn't show that to anyone. Flinging together a novel in ten days is perfectly possible. But I bet my bottom dollar that after ten days, it's probably not in a state you'd want to publish it.


Maybe. Depends.

I'm going to invoke Dean here. Check out his comment from 3:01pm, 8 Sept 2009 on this post. 5 books in a month, and all very publishable (and in fact, published). He's got a bunch of other, similar stories that he loves to tell about cranking out novels in a week and a half because of a deadline.

Yes, yes. I know. Not everyone can do that. Most folks can't. I'll wager more can than just him though, so maybe your thesis isn't universally applicable.


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## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

Michael Kingswood said:


> Maybe. Depends.
> 
> I'm going to invoke Dean here. Check out his comment from 3:01pm, 8 Sept 2009 on this post. 5 books in a month, and all very publishable (and in fact, published). He's got a bunch of other, similar stories that he loves to tell about cranking out novels in a week and a half because of a deadline.
> 
> Yes, yes. I know. Not everyone can do that. Most folks can't. I'll wager more can than just him though, so maybe your thesis isn't universally applicable.


I think that none of them were his first book, though, or his second, for that matter.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Hey Ed, Ok, edited twice and a proof. Sounds like you are good to go. Put it up. Procrastination will kill you. The readers will tell you.


ps: I don't think Nathan was trying to give you a hard time. You didn't really post much info about it.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

Good for you Mr.Shull.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

All that matters is thr final product, not the production process.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I feel this is appropriate:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/



> When you get right down to it, everyone has dreams, and you deserve the chance-hell, you owe it to yourself-to pursue those dreams when you only have enough energy to change out of your work clothes and make yourself a half-assed dinner before passing out.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2013)

Dalya said:


> I feel this is appropriate:
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/


I have never been happier to live like a bum than after reading that.


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## Heather Walsh (Jan 22, 2013)

Ed, do not quit! I repeat, do *not*.

I read your novel. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I have no doubt others will too.

You also read my novel and said you enjoyed it. Well let me tell you, Dented Cans has gotten its fair share of bad reviews and snarky comments. But I think what has kept me going for 10 years of writing while being unpublished is the idea that your writing has to please yourself first. Because that is the only reaction you can count on. If you think it's funny, or sweet, or clever, or at least half-decent, then that's what matters. And it means someone else out there will too. They'll "get" what you were trying to do for your own audience of 1. I'm having a blast seeing people respond to my novel in myriad ways. The great reviews are worth this stress. Trust me. Keep going.

And I know it's frustrating to rewrite and edit when you think are you finished. I've been there with Dented Cans--I have rewritten that sucker more times than I'd like to count. But in the end, it almost always improves the writing to fine-tune it a little more. But again, don't change it unless YOU believe the in changes. Don't write for others' opinion. They are too mercurial. Count on yourself.

Again, I really enjoyed your book and am happy to see that these great KB'ers have seemed to convince you to pick that towel back up off the floor.

Keep writing. Chin up.

-Heather


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

EdShull said:


> I feel like I should just ignore the Nathan guy. But I have to ask him, why would my book be in my signature if I don't yet have a book? Very odd question.


My apologies. I misunderstood the "objective review" part of your initial post and the "So I decided to self-publish" as meaning that you had already published and received a review. Like on Amazon.


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