# $0 publishing/promoting budget



## Guest (Nov 21, 2014)

deleted


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

I'd love to know the answer to this myself. Will be following this thread closely.

Joyce


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

When I first started publishing I was homeless and living in a hotel. A lot of days I wasn't even sure if my freelancing would get me enough money to pay the hotel bill and keep a roof over our heads. So yeah... $0 budget for ads. In fact, I just bought my first paid ads recently.

Goodreads was my friend. Yes, the reviewers there can be shockingly negative, and it can be a tough place to navigate. But it helped my YA series take off in the beginning. I used a giveaway and added friends who liked books that were similar to mine. (But I NEVER pushed my books to them. I just added them as friends.)

That was the bulk of what I did in the beginning. That, along with submitting to dozens of book blogs!


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I started with pretty much zero dollars. I did pay a few bucks here and there for stock photos, but I certainly wasn't paying thousands for line editing and cover art. I'm making multiple four figures a little over a year later.


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## JaroldWilliams (Jan 9, 2014)

Tara Shuler said:


> When I first started publishing I was homeless and living in a hotel. A lot of days I wasn't even sure if my freelancing would get me enough money to pay the hotel bill and keep a roof over our heads. So yeah... $0 budget for ads. In fact, I just bought my first paid ads recently.
> 
> Goodreads was my friend. Yes, the reviewers there can be shockingly negative, and it can be a tough place to navigate. But it helped my YA series take off in the beginning. I used a giveaway and added friends who liked books that were similar to mine. (But I NEVER pushed my books to them. I just added them as friends.)
> 
> That was the bulk of what I did in the beginning. That, along with submitting to dozens of book blogs!


Wow, Tara. I am sorry you had to go through those hard times ... hope they have ended. But OMG I admire your courage and tenacity. You GO, girl!


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

I had a $0 budget for a long time and still spend very little on anything. I'm a DIY type anyhow, so it suits me. 

It's a slow build, no matter your budget. So for me it was mailing list links in my books. I correspond with my list, meaning that I have the odd contest wherein I ask them to send me an answer to a question. Anyone answering gets entered in a draw--the questions are ones that I'm genuinely interested in, like their thoughts as readers. 

Facebook is great for me personally; I have an ARC team set up who are wonderful and lovely people. Very, very helpful. I found almost all of them via Facebook. On that subject, finding groups associated with the sort of genre you write is great.

Get to know other authors: We're not in competition with one another, regardless of how things may seem. We can help and support one another and when we do it benefits us all. If you know authors in your genre, collaborate or correspond. Help them promote and they'll help you. Get to know them. Brainstorm. It's great stuff.

The most money I've ever spent is in Facebook parties for prize drawings and that sort of thing. I like to offer gift cards because I like helping people buy books, not only by me but by others. 

If you're talented with design there are free photoshop-like programs available and you can do your own covers; it's a steep learning curve but definitely doable with some study. 

The beautiful thing is that writing is free. In an ideal world a self-publisher can work with no overhead whatsoever, and everything is profit. I did say "ideal."


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

I might come back to this and edit my post but 2 thoughts right away...

There are a ton of websites out there that will feature your free or 99 cent sale book for free on their website/mailing list. A good place to start is here: http://authormarketingclub.com/members/submit-your-book/

For reviews, you could do a LibraryThing giveaway. You post your book up including how many you want to give out, and LT will send you a list of the readers who are eligible for the free copy. I've used them a few times and have always managed to get a decent amount of reviews from it. All it took from me was posting the giveaway and emailing the winners the files.


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## bethrevis (Jul 30, 2014)

You could use social media. I don't think it's good to spam the internet with buy-links, but if you made interesting articles that linked back to your book, it could generate more interest.


__
http://instagr.am/p/todEIahRpM%2F/
: I took quotes from my book, turned them into a pretty graphic, and uploaded/shared. People liked it because it wasn't just "buy my book!"




__ https://www.facebook.com/authorbethrevis/posts/10152835661806880


: I saw an article that was loosely linked to my book, linked the article and then explained the connection. It was a pretty popular post.


__
https://102633254572%2Fmy-latest-book-the-body-electric-is-very
. I keep tumblr witty and short; this is typical of the kind of thing I post there. I will also add more background on quotes when other people post them, which people find interesting.

__
https://102634086837%2Fhe-doesnt-look-like-a-traitor-but-then-again-no


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## Amanda Hough (Feb 17, 2014)

I did a blog on this some time ago. 
Here is a glimpse of it...
_I had a lengthy conversation with one of the novelists with whom I work last night. It was a good chat. Her next manuscript is progressing nicely. The characters are, for the most part, doing as they are told (writers out there know that sometimes characters zig when you thought they were going to zag). Then she said something that got me thinking. She said, in celebration of her 20th book in print, she was making a radical change to her platform.

First, I was surprised. She is one of those writers who floats with languid repose in the familiar. But after a little push from her publisher, she agreed to a book tour in Eastern Europe.

It was this decision that made me wonder. Do writers, sometimes, stick with the familiar because there is comfort in it? This has to be even more intimidating for indie and self-published writers. You have spent weeks, maybe months, on a manuscript. You fine tune it, read, re-read and dream about it. Then, once it is published, you have to get people to buy it. Where do you start? The safe bet would be to call every relative you have. Right? Nope&#8230;
_
https://www.progressivedits.com/


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

Before I began publishing I watched someone I know spam social media for a year about one novel. That was the best lesson I've ever had. Day one either people had bought it or they weren't going to, but the thousands of subsequent posts did not help his cause in the least. 

It's hard, and we're introverts by nature, often. Self-promoting is far more difficult than writing. A tweet that you have a book out isn't incentive to buy it. But if I read someone's off-the-cuff comments and find them interesting, you bet I'll consider the purchase.


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

bethrevis said:


> You could use social media. I don't think it's good to spam the internet with buy-links, but if you made interesting articles that linked back to your book, it could generate more interest.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Beth, those are great examples. I especially like the FB one. I probably get more readers from posting on various FB groups than any other, although I'm very active in some large mystery reader groups. Thing is, every other author I know is on the same lists, too, so sometimes the self-promo gets to be too much.

I'm actually reading a book about Pinterest now, and it's given me lots of ideas for free stuff anybody can do.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Hiya, I might come into this catagory, I'm not sure.

When I started out I sold some clothes on ebay to pay for my first cover, I think it was about $60. When I realised I absolutely had to have a professional editor (actually by editor I mean _proofreader_, it was the typo type errors that were killing my reviews, not story issues), then I sold some more stuff, I cleared out most of my dvd collection and I even went to a posh charity shop and bought some designer clothes second hand then sold them for a profit on ebay. As soon as I had enough in my paypal account I got a professional edit.

That was it. I used the money from book one to fund the cover and edits on books two. I made book one perma-free and sales of book two were not bad. The profit from book two then funded book three. I literally had not spend a single penny out of my bank account (mainly because there was nothing in it!) When book three in my series came out I was suddenly in real profit for the first time.

I published my first book in March 2013. In June 2013 I published my second book and made the first one free. I published my third book in September 2013. So basically for the first six months I only just made enough to cover the costs. But I guess I did spend something, even though it wasnt real money for me, but it was not $0. I paid for the covers and I paid for the proofing.

But I've said it many times and I'll say it again. If you write in a series, and you have at least three books out, and the first one is perma-free, then you should be making money.

I don't really do advertising, I think I've done a couple of ebooksoda ads this year, and I did a freebooksy and a vampirereads one for Halloween for my second series, but I can afford them now, so I'm okay with doing it. I'm a big fan of writing another book to raise your visibility when it starts to drop off (which it inevitably will). Also I do have a mail chimp mailing list.

I dislike social media because it is time consuming. I tweet occasionally. I have a goodreads author page. I even have a facebook page, although I never go near it. I have a website purely so I appear professional, which took me a whole day to initially set up, but now only takes a few minutes to update once every few months (when I have a new release). I have a book I am releasing gradually on wattpad, but I keep forgetting to do it, and I think that that's it!

So basically I spend nothing except proofing and covers, and yes, I make what I consider to be a nice "part-time" income.

I hope some of that helps!


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

I hate to say it, but you're not going to get something for nothing.  If you're not willing to spend the time and money on your own product, it's going to be near impossible for you to get customers to spend money on it.  You can lower costs by spending more time doing it yourself but at some point that won't work anymore.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Evenstar is using the permafree tactic to move her books. Her first book in a series of 3+ books is free. People download the freebie, give it a go, decide they like it and go on to buy the subsequent books.

How close are you to completing book 3 in your series, Jana? I'd focus on getting that published, then you can put the first free and hopefully start seeing some sales. Also, you can then bundle/box set the three at a discount as an added revenue stream.

Have you considered writing a few short stories that tie into you series and putting them into KU? I'm not making a ton of money, but the last few months using KU, I've gone from making coffee money to car payment money.

Also, regarding blogs, do a Google search for book bloggers in your genre (science fiction?) and start sending them polite review requests, offering them a free ebook copy in exchange for an honest review. Many also do spotlight giveaways, author interviews, guest posts, etc. Those will cost you nothing, but could help create some interest in your series.

Have you posted to the Book Bazaar here on the KBoards, yet? I get a few sales/borrows whenever I remember to bump my ad.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Drake (Apr 30, 2014)

I haven't spent more than $20. publishing one of my titles yet, and that is for stock photos for the covers.  I do my own cover design, and while I have had a few comments about needing something more professional, I still managed to have sales/borrows over 1700 last month.  I know they could be better, but I committed to doing this on a shoestring, and so far it's working.  I've traded beta reading with a couple of other writers, but my books are largely self edited.  It is possible to have success with minimal investment.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

ruecole said:


> Also, regarding blogs, do a Google search for book bloggers in your genre (science fiction?) and start sending them polite review requests, offering them a free ebook copy in exchange for an honest review. Many also do spotlight giveaways, author interviews, guest posts, etc. Those will cost you nothing, but could help create some interest in your series.


Yep, this costs nothing but time - and if you're lucky, they'll automatically want to review your subsequent books.

*Keep an eye on here for new start-up advertisers - there was one here the other day (ebook Hounds?) who was offering free advertising whilst they built their subscriber numbers.

*Do you have any advertising credits with your web hosting? Places like GoDaddy tend to give Facebook and Google advertising vouchers.

*Take a look at Project Wonderful - there's a lot of site who use PW advertising that are either free or only costs cents a day.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

ruecole said:


> Evenstar is using the permafree tactic to move her books. Her first book in a series of 3+ books is free. People download the freebie, give it a go, decide they like it and go on to buy the subsequent books.
> 
> How close are you to completing book 3 in your series, Jana? I'd focus on getting that published, then you can put the first free and hopefully start seeing some sales. Also, you can then bundle/box set the three at a discount as an added revenue stream.
> Rue


I agree with this--get that third book out and then make the first one permafree.

Have you tried playing around with your blurbs a little more? For me, they're kind of vague, with a lot of general rather than specific details that don't tell me all that much. It's also set up the way romances commonly are--first the heroine's POV, then the hero's. Is it a romance? The cover and blurb don't really tell me if it is, or if it's straight fantasy or even science fiction.

What keywords and categories are you using? Part of your visibility problem could stem from that.


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I tried a giveaway before... just the book itself. I posted that I would give away three FREE ebook copies because it was National Book Day. No one came forward. No one wanted a FREE book. That was frustrating.


Unfortunately I don't think that's close to being the same thing. I'm sayin post a giveaway on LibraryThing and giveaway like 60-100 copies.

Where did you try to do your previous giveaway?


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

Can I say this here without incurring any hostile comments? Well, we'll see, won't we? (I appreciate that some perspectives tend to be a little more welcome than others, in this forum.) 

The ideal, _perfect_, way to get started as an author with a $0 budget for publishing and marketing is through an agent and a trade publisher: this way, you need absolutely no money at all, for design, production, editing, publishing, marketing, etc. etc. Money flows from the publisher to the author. _All_ you need is your writing skills, to get started successfully. But you have the security of knowing that all those issues will be (at least) _relatively_ professionally handled for you, without your risking a penny, the first time around.

You can also have the confidence, this way, that your work has satisfied some (at least) _relatively_ objective quality-control assessment, and is thought worthy of an experienced, professional business investing _their_ money in it. These can be big advantages (which served me very well, with my own first book).

The specific risk and potential problem this approach _so greatly_ reduces is that of writing a really good book and making almost no money from it at all, because nobody buys it. That's still a possible outcome, but to put it mildly, it's _very_ much less likely. And even a small advance, for a first book, is money in the bank.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

JanaOnWheels said:


> It's not that I'm unwilling to spend money, it's that I'm unable to. Literally. I am a single, disabled mom, barely surviving on SSI (government disability benefits) and food stamps, with three of my four children still at home, 2 of whom are also disabled (Autism and Aspergers). I cannot spend one penny on this endeavor, period. Most months, we have to go to the local food bank because the food stamps never stretch, even if we spend several days eating nothing but ramen.
> 
> My sob story aside... I can spend some time, usually when my youngest son is in school (when he's home, he needs most if not all of my attention), but just because I have a few hours to spend doesn't mean I understand what it is I should be doing. I've looked into free ad sites, blogs, facebook pages, etc, and I just don't get what it is I'm supposed to do. Or if I do understand it, I don't qualify somehow.
> 
> I'm fortunate that my beta reader is a retired college professor who has published both text books and fiction stories, so I feel my interior content is fairly solid. I was also very fortunate to be gifted amazing genre appropriate covers for the first two novels, with her saying she's on board to create the third as well. So in that respect, I'm okay. It's just getting word out there somehow, so that people know the novels exist. That's where I'm lost and flailing.


If you're budget is zero, then the best return on your time that I can think of is going to be spent on writing. Get more works uploaded. A dollar or an hour spent promoting one book doesn't go as far as a dollar spent promoting several books. Free loss leader books or short stories are a pretty efficient way to promote. You can crank out a 2k-6k short, make it free and link it to your paid works. Let it do the promoting for you. Do a quick search for the mega lists of promotional websites to use. Start going through them and with some smart SEO titles and blurbs you can quickly get your book all over the place and it will come up in relevant searches.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Don't believe them. Do what you need to do.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Huh?? Don't believe who?


Don't believe anyone who says you can't do this for free and be successful. Sorry. I just woke up. I didn't read every word of the thread.


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## mel p (Oct 22, 2014)

Evenstar said:


> I dislike social media because it is time consuming. I tweet occasionally. I have a goodreads author page. I even have a facebook page, although I never go near it. I have a website purely so I appear professional, which took me a whole day to initially set up, but now only takes a few minutes to update once every few months (when I have a new release). I have a book I am releasing gradually on wattpad, but I keep forgetting to do it, and I think that that's it!


Sorry if this is off topic...As of yet, I have not published anything but when I do it will be using a pen name. I haven't created a website, twitter account, facebook or anything yet with the pen name. I peaked at your website and I really like it. It looks like you used weebly, but must have registered your name as the domain? Is Stella Wilkinson a pen name for you? I just ask because you use no photo....and I love your avatar! Anyway, I have been looking for examples that I might use to model. Thanks!


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

Trust me, it CAN be done for free. I started in 2011 homeless in a hotel, as I mentioned in my previous post. Since then I've had a couple of six figure years. Until this year, other than buying photos for my covers, I've spent pretty much NOTHING.

I did my own editing, my own covers, my own formatting, etc.

Fortunately, I already had years of design experience when I started, so that helped a ton. 

You don't HAVE to pay anything for all that stuff, but I realize it has a steep learning curve for a lot of people. That's why you can trade/barter for a lot of the stuff you need. 

Can't afford an editor? Seek people in the same boat and help each other proofread. You know what you meant to say in a sentence, so you may inadvertently miss typos. Someone else wouldn't. You proofread theirs, and they can proofread yours. It'll help catch mistakes.

Can't afford a cover designer? Try bartering one of your services for cover design. Maybe offer to exchange short story writing for a batch of a few covers or something.

Can't afford advertising? Go the free route. Use social media, send review copies to bloggers and readers on Goodreads, etc.

I also second the short story route, even if you do it on a second pen name. Get some borrows in KU and use some of the money you earn to finance the stuff you feel you can't barter for. 

And, as others have said, get that third book out. My YA series didn't take off until book 3. It's very common that people wait for at least book 3 to get into a series.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Bartering is an excellent suggestion, Tara! I've bartered cover design work for proofreading, typesetting, a press release, and some other promo material.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Midnight Whimsy (Jun 25, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I've played around with the blurbs until I was at the brink of losing my mind! I had so many people giving me so many different types of advice... I finally just decided that blurbs, like writing styles, are subjective, chose the one that got the best feedback, and called it done.
> 
> It's predominantly romance/adventure with a touch of sci-fi.
> 
> I can't remember which keywords I chose. How do I find that?


Hey Jana,

I'm very anti-social-media as well. Not only do I not particularly enjoy using it as a author, but I don't even like it outside that. Twitter drives me mad. Facebook I use only to keep track of family members. The rest, I've never tried. In fact, I only recently started posting with a semblance of regularity here instead of lurking all the time.

For a lot of us, handling multiple social media sites is too intimidating so I chose just one to focus on as an author. I decided on Facebook because I was already familiar with how it worked. All I try to do is share things that I think my readers might be interested (all 30 of them, haha). I'm not worried about trying to sell the book to them because if they've liked me on Facebook, they've already read the book. But if they find things interesting, they might share them, which will lead people back to me, and just maybe, my book.

However, all the effort you might spend to get eyes on your book will be wasted if no one buys it, and that's why I think you need to look at your blurb again. As was already mentioned, it's really vague. I can't tell if it's a book I might interested in because there's almost nothing about the book in the blurb. I know there are two characters, some kind of non-human "kind", and a "world". This isn't enough information for me to decide if it's interesting to me. It's like describing Harry Potter as a book where "An odd boy goes to a special boarding school and discovers new things" or a movie trailer where the camera pans across a few people's faces, a house, and a park, then ends. There's nothing to say, "Hey, this is a cool thing and it's right up your alley." What makes your characters, world, and plot unique? That is what's going to sell your book. Your blurb is free marketing that is working for you 24/7. 

Good luck!

M.W


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

SBJones said:


> If you're not willing to spend the time and money on your own product, it's going to be near impossible for you to get customers to spend money on it. You can lower costs by spending more time doing it yourself but at some point that won't work anymore.


I (respectfully) couldn't disagree more. I have a pen name that does very well without any paid advertising and with covers I created myself. Carina's advice is great. When you have $0 to promote, your mailing list and social media/reader engagement are of the utmost importance. And yes, keep writing and writing! The more product you have out, the better.

Making the first one free is an EXCELLENT idea and will expose your work to many more readers. Best of luck, Jana! You can do this. Also, when you have $5 to promote, buy a Bknights gig on fiverr for that free book.

"Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can." -Arthur Ashe


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

No advice.  Yea I know for once.  But I did want to give you some hugs.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

For my main pen name, I've currently spent a combined $2000 and I've made less than 20% ($400)  of that back. Spending for editing, covers, promo isn't an instant ticket to success, but in the long run, I think the gamble will pay off. 

For my erotica pen-name, I've spent less than $40 total (for stock photography). And I've made an 800% investment, between $100 and $150 a month, which isn't going to pay the bills, but helps subsidize my main pen name. I only have five short stories (all between 2500-5000 words) and one of them is free. I need to start dedicating more time to this pen name.

Success can be found no matter how much, or how little, you spend. I believe it's inherently easier though if you can provide content with professional quality covers and editing.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

AgnesWebb said:


> I (respectfully) couldn't disagree more. I have a pen name that does very well without any paid advertising and with covers I created myself.


The problem with statements like this is you fail to disclose genre and define "very well." Some genres have a much smaller position in the market than others and require more marketing to reach readers. "Very well" is personal to the author and could vary from $100 to a million.

If you expect to make big money - six figures and beyond - and you do not possess editing/graphic design skills or have people who will do it for you for free or barter, then you should not have the expectation that you will achieve certain heights. I'm not saying no one ever has. I'm saying it's statistically unlikely to become a bestseller when you're putting no social media time or money into your publishing business.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

On second thought, I do have a bit of advice for you.  I see it is about time for school to be letting out for the day.  Can I say take the rest of the day off and enjoy the kids.    Turn off the computer, forget about the books for a bit, and have some quality time with your children.  Do something together.  Note I don't know how old your kids are but ask about their day, go for a short walk (weather permitting), play hide n seek or other silly game in the house.

Oh and if you have a Catholic Charities in your area, I know you can get free food twice a month.  Take advantage of all that is offered to you.


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## SkyScribe (Aug 18, 2014)

The issue is that success is always relative, but success without (smart) promotion will always be less than success with (smart) promotion. Last month wasn't there a guy around here crowing that he made $5,000 per month without having any expenses? That might sound nice. If I wanted to settle for that I could probably be in a similar situation. But instead I'd rather spend $1,000 on promotion and a sliver more effort to really get my work out there and end up with $10,000 per month. 

If it makes you feel good that you're spending nothing on promo while burning hours chatting on Goodreads in the hopes of scraping together a sale, knock yourself out. But for me, I feel better when those bigger deposits come in because I'm getting traction and building a fanbase in ways that can't be done for free.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Sweetie,
Call Catholic Charities and talk to them.  I would bet they have some ideas or maybe some drivers.
Oh wait, you said you had a bus system.  Call and talk to them.  I know here they have special buses that pick up and drop off at the door.  I do believe it is no cost.  And still thinking.


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## SkyScribe (Aug 18, 2014)

JanaOnWheels said:


> But some people don't have the $1,000 to invest. I made about $7 in royalties in the past 5ish weeks, and that's a BANNER month for me. I usually don't sell one single book. I would be ecstatic if I got even $100 per month, let alone $5,000!


My comment was more to the people who responded saying it was possible because they'd made however far while ignoring marketing. I understand about having to start from scratch and being dead broke, though my start came when I had a full-time job that I was using to invest in my writing. So I'd look at the numbers in my post as being proportional. That said, I do think trying to get into authorship is one of those things that some people stick with way longer than they should when it's not working out. My biggest advice would be to treat writing as a serious hobby and don't look at it like how you earn a living. If you're doing it because you love it you'll find a way sooner or later, even on a limited budget, but to keep writing you're probably going to need something else to sustain you as you get there.


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## Midnight Whimsy (Jun 25, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I really don't think I have the wherewithal to even THINK about rewriting the blurbs. I'm not trying to be difficult or melodramatic, but I spent an insane amount of time trying to 'fix' them... I read post after post, watched YouTube videos, bought a book by an author on these boards for 99 cents - money I didn't really have; I had to scrape up the better part of the 99 cents in pennies and send my son down to deposit it in the bank so I could buy the book...
> 
> I posted here on the boards and got a dozen different answers and directions of advice. I asked family and friends, and someone who my sister knows who works with other authors as a proofreader. I asked my beta reader. I got some help from someone on these boards... she actually gave me her seal of approval on the first book's blurb.
> 
> ...


I can definitely empathize, Jana. But at the same time, if one of the crucial legs of your product is coming up short, all your other efforts will be hampered. If the road a reader follows to buy books is "Marketing -> Cover -> Blurb -> Sample -> Purchase" and the blurb step isn't working, then your efforts toward the preceding steps won't work effectively. To be blunt, marketing when your blurb is turning off readers is a waste of your time. You're trying to sell a product that's missing half its packaging, and it's just not going to work very well.

Time is precious and I don't want to see you waste yours.  I agree with Cin -- take the day off, spend time your little fellow once he's home, and think about the book stuff with a fresh mind tomorrow.

Best,

M.W


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I totally feel you. You need survival money. People talking about six figures are not reading your situation. If you want to make money fast, and I don't know if this is something you could personally do, but the quickest route to fast money is short erotica. I know of one guy who recently went from 0 to $5k with short erotic stories. You don't have to worry about proofreaders, beta reading, copy design, etc. The one and only thing you will need is a sexy stock photo. There are places where you can get these for $5. If you can write in volume you will make money. Maybe not $5k in two months, but enough to help you pay for food. If you want to know more read the "7 Day Erotica Challenge" thread.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196306.0.html

If you PM me about this, I'll help you as much as I can.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

Half Pint said:


> People talking about six figures are not reading your situation.


Her situation doesn't change the business. Making ANY amount of money requires a certain amount of time, energy, or money or a combination. But you can't avoid marketing and not spend money and expect anyone to ever find you. Something has to give.

I do agree that writing in a hot genre with readers that don't mind shorter format is a good idea, especially if money is the only concern.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Jana DeLeon said:


> Her situation doesn't change the business. Making ANY amount of money requires a certain amount of time, energy, or money or a combination. But you can't avoid marketing and not spend money and expect anyone to ever find you. Something has to give.
> 
> I do agree that writing in a hot genre with readers that don't mind shorter format is a good idea, especially if money is the only concern.


You're right. Of course. If you don't have a lot of money to spend, you do have to focus on volume. 
I started with zero dollars and then began spending money on editors and ads. I'm all about promos now for my erom serials, but in the beginning, I didn't do anything.

However, my erotica sells itself. If it doesn't, I know it's a nonstarter.

I'm also going to suggest the 1 Year, 100 Titles- My Results thread

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,162157.0.html


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

Half Pint said:


> I'm also going to suggest the 1 Year, 100 Titles- My Results thread
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,162157.0.html


Yes! This was an awesome thread. Very inspiring.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I never have. I never expected to make a living off of it, though it would obviously be nice if I could. Mostly, I just wanted to get it written and out there. But is there really any point to writing it and getting it out there is no one ever reads it? That's kinda the wall I'm at now.
> 
> Yes, true, which is why I went through painstaking efforts to fix it (the blurb). And for as many people who have said they don't like it, others have said they do. There's just no pleasing everyone, so I gave up trying to (please everyone) and just went with the draft that got the most favorable feedback.
> 
> It's not black and white. It's not 2+2= 4. It's all kinds of grey, and a million equations I don't think the best of all mathematicians could solve. I did the best I can. If that's not good enough, then I guess the books will be destined to fail. I'll have to just come to terms with that, I guess, because I am not super human, able to produce the impossible - something that everyone loves universally.


You did NOT fail. If you sold even one book you are doing better than some others.
The fact that you put it out there means you are doing more than some writers or wannabe writers. 
In that respect, you are a success.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

BrianDAnderson said:


> Very few writers who are making six figures got there without a significant investment. I saved for a year to hire my first editor. It was a disaster, but that's another story. I continued to save and invest, save and invest, until I've reached a very groovy stage in my career. It didn't happen all at once. And it didn't happen without sacrifice.
> There is no guarantee that your investment will pay off. But if you want guarantees you've chosen the wrong field...and the wrong planet.


I get the feeling that you've never been, like, reeealy poor before. When I was a single mom on welfare, there was no "saving" money. There was digging through the couch for bus fare money. There was "oh my god I hope I don't get another 3 day notice on the apartment" money. Telling someone who doesn't have enough money to survive to save money, is a little naive. Just be happy you've never experienced poverty. She doesn't need six figures, she needs to feed her kids.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I never have. I never expected to make a living off of it, though it would obviously be nice if I could. Mostly, I just wanted to get it written and out there. But is there really any point to writing it and getting it out there is no one ever reads it? That's kinda the wall I'm at now.
> 
> Yes, true, which is why I went through painstaking efforts to fix it (the blurb). And for as many people who have said they don't like it, others have said they do. There's just no pleasing everyone, so I gave up trying to (please everyone) and just went with the draft that got the most favorable feedback.
> 
> It's not black and white. It's not 2+2= 4. It's all kinds of grey, and a million equations I don't think the best of all mathematicians could solve. I did the best I can. If that's not good enough, then I guess the books will be destined to fail. I'll have to just come to terms with that, I guess, because I am not super human, able to produce the impossible - something that everyone loves universally.


It's not a matter of liking it or not liking it--the blurb doesn't make it clear what genre your book is in, and that's pretty much a requirement. I don't think marketing is going to help until you have a total package (cover + blurb + categories + keywords) that targets the correct audience. A huge part of discoverability is making sure the right buyers can quickly tell if the book is the kind they're looking for.

How about just adding something like "Book One of The Mengliad Series: exciting science fiction romance," or "Book One in the exciting science fiction romance series, The Mengliad"?


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## Rue Hirsch (May 4, 2014)

Tara Shuler said:


> Trust me, it CAN be done for free. I started in 2011 homeless in a hotel, as I mentioned in my previous post. Since then I've had a couple of six figure years. Until this year, other than buying photos for my covers, I've spent pretty much NOTHING.
> 
> I did my own editing, my own covers, my own formatting, etc.
> 
> ...


Awesome. Thank you for sharing. Your story is inspirational!

There's lots of good advice on this thread, thank you to everyone for sharing as well. I learn so much from this forum.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Thank you for that positive perspective. It is very much appreciated, especially on a difficult day such as this!
> 
> I wasn't expecting guarantees, believe me. I was just asking if people could share tips and suggestions, because maybe they'd offer up something I hadn't thought of. I'm not looking for magic beans, just something that I am capable of doing within my limitations.
> 
> ...


Seriously, if you want to write for money, write short erotica. If you PM me I'll give you more info. Or read those threads I linked. Erotica and erom aren't a guaranteed either, but they're a way better bet than putting a bunch of money you don't have into something that may or may not sell. Believe it or not, most books are like that. It isn't that you wrote a bad book, not at all. It's just a tough game in genres that aren't easy sells.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

BrianDAnderson said:


> And you get that feeling because......why? You can dance around it and say I'm wrong all you want. You can even make uniformed assumptions about me (and wrong assumptions I might add) because you don't like what I have to say. But it changes nothing. It is what it is. Wishing things to be different and complaining that it's not fair, doesn't do a thing to accomplish your goals. I didn't set the rules. I just learned to play by them.


Well, I've been super poor and the choice between spending money to get to work on the bus and spending money on a book editor would be a pretty easy choice. A choice that would never come up because it just seem insane. No one was complaining about anything or saying anything wasn't fair. I was just talking about this little thing called reality. Maybe what you consider poor and what I consider poor are two different things.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I wasn't really looking to write for the sake of making money. I was hoping to make a few dollars while doing so but mostly, I just wanted to write the stories inside my head. Currently, Mengliad is inside my head. That's where my focus is. I've even left fanfics hanging because I am focused on this alone right now.
> 
> But thanks for the advice! When Mengliad is finished, I'll see where my muse takes me!


Okay. That's up to you. I just wanted to let you know what options are out there. Good luck.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

BrianDAnderson said:


> And so am I.





BrianDAnderson said:


> And so am I.


Maybe what you consider poor and what I consider poor are two different things.


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## Rue Hirsch (May 4, 2014)

Jana, got your first book. Looks like an interesting read. Best of luck to you btw. Don't give up!


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

JanaOnWheels said:


> ROFLMBO!
> 
> I'm not laughing at you, I'm a little bit laughing maniacally! That's what I had FIRST! People told me to take it out!
> 
> This was the original blurb:


That is funny.  I recommended "science fiction romance" because it's a popular keyword phrase that readers use to find books. Stick it in your blurb and put it in your keywords, too. What's the worst that could happen?


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Jana can, of course, speak for herself, but I don't think she ever said she'd NEVER spend money on advertising. Just that she doesn't have the money *NOW* to spend on advertising. I'm sure if she can kickstart some sales, she'll use some of that to put into advertising to grow her sales some more.

I haven't been in as tight of a financial situation as Jana, but I think it's a little hard-hearted to throw around "six figures" and "$5000 per month" given that doesn't seem to be her goal at this moment. Again,  she can speak for herself, but I was under the impression that her goal wasn't to start selling "big" right now, but rather to start getting regular sales AT ALL. Y'know, more than $7 per month in royalties.

Offering her suggestions to do that, I think, would be far more helpful advice in this thread.

JMHVO

Rue


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## Midnight Whimsy (Jun 25, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> ROFLMBO!
> 
> I'm not laughing at you, I'm a little bit laughing maniacally! That's what I had FIRST! People told me to take it out!
> 
> This was the original blurb:


As Kenzi said, the big thing your blurb needs to do is give an idea of the genre and presence. Taking from your original blurb, I would add this to the beginning of your current blurb, in italics.

_Some people think we got here by spacecraft. Some think we evolved. Some think we were created. However we came to be, the truth is there are two near-identical species on Earth. One is Human, one is Mengliad._

This triggers my curiosity and makes me want to know more about what the Mengliad are and where they came from. It also explains the title. I know you want to be done with your blurb, but I really think you should add it. It's not perfect and it might not change anything, but it can't hurt, right?

Also, I never meant to suggest you'd failed or your book was failing. I just want your marketing efforts to be as effective as they possibly can so you can continue to achieve your dream of getting the books into readers' hands. 

M.W


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't have lots of money to spend on my books, either--though you seem to be in dire straits. 

I posted a question on Writer's Cafe whether to continue my series and received advice that really helped. I couldn't make drastic changes because of budget limitations, but I implemented as many of the ideas as I could. I made changes to the covers, blurbs, key words, and used all the free marketing sites that would have me. My series definitely gained a boost in readership. I even received 2 four-star reviews in Goodreads and folks are adding me to their reading lists.

The best bit of advice I received from Kboards was that I needed to keep adding books to the series (my genre is mystery). I've decided to commit to that and put away the idea of quitting. Go big or go home.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Here's another thread that may help:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196006.0.html

Go into your Amazon set-up page and scroll down and you'll find your list of keywords.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> ROFLMBO!
> 
> I'm not laughing at you, I'm a little bit laughing maniacally! That's what I had FIRST! People told me to take it out!
> 
> This was the original blurb:


Okay, as a science fiction reader, I don't much like the part about Adam and Eve... BUT I like the statement "There are two species living on Earth." That by itself is a huge concept and a good place to start.

You could start with:

"There are two species that are near-identical in every way that inhabit the Earth. One is Human, one is Mengliad.

While on her way home from work, Jessica Mitchell (give me a brief description--is she a mom? student? working stiff?) passes out in Central Park from what she thinks is the flu. When she gains consciousness hours later, she finds herself under the gaze of a kind but odd stranger. This Good Samaritan offers his assistance. Then he shows her a world she's never known to exist."

Okay and at this point, we need to know at least a detail or two about that danger you mentioned. "Danger" is too vague. Is it the flu? Is somebody trying to kill her? Mention that, and this should finish up your blurb. Readers want details. We want to know what's different in your book from all the other thousands out there.

Sorry if that's making your brain hurt! You can always bookmark this and come back later when you're feeling rested.


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## jenminkman (Mar 2, 2013)

Couple of things:

1. That longer blurb you had before? Go for that one. It triggered my curiosity. The shorter one is way too vague and meh. And I actually love romance/sci-fi, so it should appeal to me!

2. I see Imogen Rose reviewed your book!! She's kind of a big thing (she wrote the whole Portal series, didn't she?). Can't you use her review as a hook somehow? Convince blogs to feature you because she gave you a glowing review?

3. You can easily look up your keywords on the KDP dashboard. Just click on 'Book Details' on the right-hand side and check which keywords you used in that section where you can enter 7 keywords. If you haven't updated them since 2009, do so NOW. Try to figure out which keywords are relevant on Amazon by using the search box on Amazon.com and start typing 'sci-fi' ... and see what the auto-fill comes up with. I bet there'll be something like 'sci-fi romance' - that should be a popular search term. I recently changed my keywords on all my free books by using the search box/popular search term approach and doubled my downloads without ANY advertising. Just generating new visibility. 

4. Drop your price to 99 cents (are you in Select? then do a countdown) and try to get your book featured on SweetFreeBooks or ReadCheaply (one of these is for free, I just can't remember which one). Also, try the Midlist - they are also free and they seem to like romance a lot. So first layer on the romance element a little bit in your blurb.

5. As soon as you can, go for the perma-free approach. It REALLY helps. And there are tons of sites out there that advertise your freebie for free (or just a couple of dollars; the $5 you spend on BKnight's Fiverr gig will be the best you'll spend on any promo).

6. You might not have money to advertise now, but you will someday - I am sure of it! Until then, invest lots of time in writing more books in this series so you'll have plenty to show to the world by the time you do have some advertising dollars.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> No, I know. I'm just frustrated! I appreciate everyone's help, advice, suggestions, general hand-holding and hugs, etc.
> 
> This is just something that has been a major source of my recent migraines for a while now. For everyone who says the blurb is 'wrong' or 'lacking' someone else says it's great. So who do I believe?
> 
> See my dilemma?


Everyone likes different things. Your first blurb is better. 
When it comes down to it, do what you think is best. 
And remember opinions are like armpits, everyone has them and sometimes they stink. 
HERE are some more hugssss. 
Did you recently cut out caffeine?


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Changes. What changes?  (don't need to tell me everything, but give me a hint).

I still think you should open with that two species line. It's by far the most compelling thing in your original blurb. 

Your second blurb brings a lot more of the romance into it, but not as much of the science fiction. Which way do you think your book leans? More romance, more science fiction, or equal parts of both?


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

I don't know if this will help at all..it's a little vague and rough because I haven't actually read the books, but if you want to focus on the romance part:

Something is wrong with Jessica Mitchell. When she passes out in Central Park, she attributes it to the strange flu-like symptoms she's been fighting. Then she meets Craddock Daniels, who tells her the world as she knows it doesn't exist. Jessica is no longer human--she's Mengliad.

Craddock tries not to get involved, but he's inexplicably drawn to the beautiful redhead, and it's obvious she needs help. She's an Accidental Convert--a human changed into a Mengliad with no knowledge of what that means. Left on her own, she might not survive...and for some reason, he'll do anything to keep her alive.

Jessica has no choice but to follow the [powerfully seductive--aka something romancy here] Craddock, even though she thinks he's insane, with his stories of another species that looks human but isn't. Still...she's changing in ways she can't explain, and Craddock is her best bet for discovering the truth. [Insert something romancy/about the two of them together here to wrap it up.]

Book One in The Mengliad, a thrilling new science fiction romance series.

Have you checked these? They'll help you select your keywords:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2G3ZMYDPB9VRM
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A19G4ONBAU6NO3


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Perfect. Then Kenzi nailed it.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Wow, that's really good! And scary accurate for you never having read it!
> 
> IF I decide to change it yet again, would you mind if I used parts of that?


Feel free.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't have any advise on marketing, blurb writing or anything else like that. I am not a writer, but a voracious reader.

I am also know to be a huge romance reader with a big soft spot for science fiction romance. So I read the blurb on Goodreads first and the romantic adventure sci fi notice was there.

I suggest also to get your new cover onto goodreads. Maybe someone in here can help you with that, but it needs to be there and the series naming and order. Lots of us readers find reads on Goodreads so get that to be the same than your great new cover on Amazon. Is there a librarian here that can help her on that? You can also go to goodreads and go to the goodreads librarian group here
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/220-goodreads-librarians-group
see where you scroll down to book cover help. See how other authors are asking to have book covers added, books added and so on. Ask nicely there and they will fix it for you the way it needs to be.

So as I said, I love sci fi romance and the blurb (goodreads) sounded interesting enough to me to get me a sample on my kindle. Good sci fi romance is hard to find. Those of us that love it, will scour for it.

And if it is sci fi romance, you need to have that in keywords or whatever you writers put that in. Fans of that subgenre have to be able to find it.

I wish you the best.


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## Robert Dahlen (Apr 27, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> You did NOT fail. If you sold even one book you are doing better than some others.
> The fact that you put it out there means you are doing more than some writers or wannabe writers.
> In that respect, you are a success.


+1. Heck, +100. But KBoards' own Rosalind James said this much better than I ever could:

_Here's to us for taking the chance, for taking a risk, for putting our words and, often, our hearts and souls and the product of the very best part of us out there for the world to judge, for readers to hate, and, sometimes, we hope, for readers to love. It's a huge gamble. Even if we lose, we played. We played hard, and we didn't go home._

Her post in full: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190183.msg2684661.html#msg2684661


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> It helps a little, but, if you don't really do advertising or social media, how do people know your books exist?


Hiya, like Rue said, the perma-free book is my best advert. It's a loss leader and seems popular enough that people then pick up the next one. I went free with my first book as soon as I had the second one out. I think the other thing is that my market is very clear from my covers and my blurb. Teenagers recognise their genre straight away from my cover. Then soon you start appearing on the "also boughts" which is really helpful. So they go straight from similar authors to me. That's great free advertising right there.

Like you (and I suspect an awful lot of authors) I'm not good at putting myself out there, I prefer books to people. Which is why I find social media hard. But more than hard, I just find it time consuming for very little reward. I once did a Goodreads giveaway, it was only three books and I was thrilled at first with how many sign ups there were and how many "Want to read" lists my book appeared on. But then I got hit with the cost of postage worldwide, and none of the three wrote a review, and I saw no increase in sales. I felt like it was a lesson to learn! For me, I would totally say don't waste time on giveaways and anything that costs you money unless you _know_ it gets results.


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## Robert Dahlen (Apr 27, 2014)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Thanks, Robert, and thanks to Rosalind as well!
> 
> Kiddo is home so I'll be MIA for a bit. But I'll be back later, so please feel free to throw more advice at me!


I'll thank Rosalind as well. She's awesome!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

mel p said:


> Sorry if this is off topic...As of yet, I have not published anything but when I do it will be using a pen name. I haven't created a website, twitter account, facebook or anything yet with the pen name. I peaked at your website and I really like it. It looks like you used weebly, but must have registered your name as the domain? Is Stella Wilkinson a pen name for you? I just ask because you use no photo....and I love your avatar! Anyway, I have been looking for examples that I might use to model. Thanks!


Hi Mel, no problem, I think it's a very relevant question.
Yes, Stella Wilkinson is a pen name, I'm terrified of being famous, lol, I like my privacy. That's also why I use an avatar. I was actually searching for an image for a cover when I saw it and thought, "Oh that looks a little bit like me, or how I wish I looked anyway!" So I bought the rights to use it from the stock image site, which cost me a whopping $7 (again, it just came out of my ebay money).
Yes, I used Weebly for my website, they offered me two years domain name for only $30 so I jumped at it. (The website itself is free). After that I think it goes up to $60 a year, but I figured that if I'm not making enough by then to justify that, then I should stop! I was publishing for over a year before I bothered with the website. I wanted to make sure I could stick at it first of all.
As I said, I set up the website on my own and it took me a day to do it. I have zero technical skills, so if I can do it then anyone can. That is why the site is so simple, and yet I get a ton of good feedback on it 
Hope some of that helps too x


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

BrianDAnderson said:


> Are they? Are you sure? How did you come by this knowledge? I'm interested. Is it because of the snapshot you think you're seeing of me now? Is it because that I am saying the unpopular truth that making real money in indie writing is no different than any other business. What business can you think of where there is no initial investment? Even if you're selling toothpaste door to door you have to buy inventory. It's harsh, I know. And yes there are some rare exceptions. But they are the exception. And the more I think about it, compared to other forms of art and entertainment, it's a tiny sum. Musician, artists, dancers, all have to go through years of training and buy thousands of dollars in supplies, instruments, etc.. When you think about the amount it would take to edit a book and get a decent cover, it's not that much by comparison. And you can even meet other writers that can help you. A dancer can't have someone dance for them, a musician has to buy and maintain their own instrument and almost always pay for any lessons, and paints and canvas aren't cheap.


#1, she said MAYBE.

#2, it's definitely possible to do this without investing money. Just like you can do many types of start ups with little to no money. It's called bootstrapping and LOTS of entrepreneurs do it. Even some of those who are now billionaires.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Yes! Thanks!
> 
> Here are the keywords:
> 
> aliens, genes, telepathy, love, fantasy, paranormal, mystery


Hi Jana
Okay, I'll be blunt (even though I know you really don't need to hear this today, but maybe in a couple of days you will feel up to tackling it) your keywords are dreadful.

While I think that covers and blurbs generate sales, your keywords generate people looking at the book in the first place. These will get you _nothing at all_! I kid you not, but using such generic terms will not help people find your book. If I type LOVE into Amazon, do you think your book will appear on even the first 100 pages of results? Definitely not. People search for terms not for one word, so put terms in.

EG. Paranormal love story book, alien romance sci-fi love, paranormal science fiction romance, fantasy ebook alien romantic fiction, non-human romance relationship alien lover.

See how I am using lots of different search terms for basically the same words? That's because you want to capture that market, you want to appear when people specify what they are looking for. If you were searching for a book like yours what would you type into amazon? Now try it and see how many results you get. You don't want to pick words on their own in a saturated genre (like love and romance or science fiction) because you will never show up, but equally you don't want to waste time with keywords that no-one is searching for. So it is a balancing act. You could do with an whole entire new post to cover this alone  Which I think you should! Get some decent suggestions, pick out the most popular and then cram them into your keyword field.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Definitely use the phrases!

Rue


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## skyle (Oct 13, 2014)

I would like to say to all those who said you have to invest, that you really don't! Not in erotica anyway. The only money I spend is that I get my covers done on Fiverr. I earn that money back in about an hour of the book going live. I spend _almost_ $0 and make a few hundred a month which took me three months. But that's erotica, it is NOT Scifi Romance.

I think there are two issues basically going on here. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

One is that the books are not selling much and you want them to do better without spending any money, and two, you need to make money.

As halfpint said, you could be writing erotica and making money and spending nothing. But that is not for everyone! A lot of people feel quite icky about writing erotica.

Can I suggest a halfway house? You are obviously a good writer because your reviews are excellent. But instead of channelling your energy into FanFic, can you channel it into short stories that you publish for real?

For example, I wrote a Regency romance short story with a completely new name and no advertising and published it on KU as an experiment. It is only 7k words, but it outsells everything else I have ever done (including my "real" books under a different name). I know I should write more of the same really, but actually I found it hard work, it required using my brain, which erotica doesn't require LOL. Anyway, my point is that you clearly have a brain, and you clearly love to write. Why not take some of your Fanfic and change the names and publish it, just as an experiment, and see if it gets you some cash rolling in (which you can then invest in your "real" work, if you want to).

Now, the other issue, which I think it the real one for you - How can you make more with your current books? 
Yeah, I think this has actually been answered. You need to publish book 3. You need a free first book. You need to slightly rework your blurb and totally redo your keywords. There is no quick fix or easy one way answer, but you know that already. I think you will, in time, make these changes, and write more, and do rather well.

But I think you do need to realise that you are doing way better than the majority of writers out there with only two books! The people on Writers Cafe are not a good example of this. The people here are the small percentage that were smart enough to come here at all. This place is a gold mine of valuable information and the authors here (in my opinion) are the ones who are going to succeed! But out there in the real world, hundreds of thousands of authors are bumbling along without this resource and they are the ones who, in general, are really going to struggle to make it long term in this business. Everything you need to succeed is in this cafe and you so are you! Lucky lucky you! You have a huge headstart on all those other authors who will sink into obscurity and never make it and never know why. That isnt going to happen to you. You clearly want to learn and to improve and so you will!

It's good news Jana. You obviously _can_ write, so many reviews can not be wrong, and I truly believe that if you keep publishing then you will get noticed and build a fan base. You don't need to spend any money. Let your books do the advertising for you. But don't stop what ever else you do!!!

Big hugs, you have a tough home life, but it sounds to me like you have exactly the right attitude to succeed in this. Just keep swimming........


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## because (Jul 9, 2014)

Hi Jana,

I can't really give you any advice as I am a total newbie at this, and besides, you've received quite a few already 

Other than having published my first novel, I have no idea on how to do any of the publishing/promoting stuff. Luckily, I have my wife who enjoys doing this for us. I know it's a lot of constant work (she often says I had the easier part writing the book) and she'd told me that there are certainly many things to try - some with costs and some without. 

Please take a look at what she has done for us so far (our site, facebook, etc). If there is anything you need (such as graphics/technical stuff), she's willing to assist you; it's would be a great way for us to pay forward  Just let me know.

All the best.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Forgive me, I didn't read every post, so I don't know if you heard this suggestion. I started in fanfic too. I actually mention in my fanfic profile that I write original fiction and give the link. I've gotten a number of sales from that.

I have income from another job, so I'm okay, but didn't want to spend any household money for reasons of pride, fear, I dunno?

I think what you really need to do is finish that third book, and then go free with the first. You'll probably make enough from that initial free giveaway to pay for some ads. Also, there are a lot of places that will advertise free books free of charge.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> What fandom(s) do you write for?


StarTrek AOS (lots), one Star Wars fic, Narnia, and Thor/Avengers.

I don't write fanfic anymore. It feels too confining. Also, as the source material progresses, it diverges from your vision and then you wind up with people unhappy that you aren't cannon. I've gotten more hate over the years for fanfic than I have for original fiction. At least with original fiction I get paid to take the hate.

Anyway, I mention(ed) that I write original fiction at the end of every story (sometimes at the end of every chapter), and then say "Links are in my profile".

To put them in your profile, just login to your account, under Account you'll see Profile. Write something like, "You can't pay me for my fanfiction, but you can purchase my original fiction at Amazon, iBooks, etc ... " and then use the little chain link icon to link up the relevant stores.

I also posted my first free story in my series under "Norse Mythology" on Fanfiction.net. That was a good idea; I picked up quite a few readers that way.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Do you have any super fans you can give your books too who can read it chapter by chapter and give you feedback as you work? If you're spending too much time writing fanfic, maybe it's because you're addicted to the constant influx of reviews. Have someone read along as you work will give you the love you need (and the hate if you get off path).


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## Michael Buckley (Jun 24, 2013)

Living in a hotel is not homeless. Homeless is living without a home. The joys of having cockroaches and rats crawl on your body.  Wish I had a hotel. 

It helps to write Dystopian if the world you live is actually Dystopian.


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## Ros_Jackson (Jan 11, 2014)

With regard to the blurbs, bear in mind that they're not fixed. Experiment and see if they improve sales. I like Midnight Whimsy's suggestion, and I don't think it will hurt your sales to try it.

But your main problem is going to be that book one came out in 2009 and book two in September, so it's getting past its main visibility cliff and you have to take that into account when you look at your results. Good luck!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I totally understand about the no money thing. It's not easy to know you need to buy something/pay for services and be blithely told to save up, when there's literally nothing to save. Don't let the elitists around here tell you it can be done. It can't, and you and I know it (as do the others who've posted about it here).

That said, your reviews seem to show that the issue isn't with the story itself. So that's the biggest hurdle down. What that leaves, barring money to promote, is free ways to get the book in front of the right readers.

So rework that blurb. Keep doing it until you hit the right one (and even then, you might need to tweak it as you keep publishing). I'd advise not putting anything in there that describes the experience of the book: phrases such as "exciting", "thrilling", or anything about "if you like books by XYZ author". It's up to the reader to decide those things. I also don't like being asked questions in a blurb. To me, the blurb should make me ask myself "does Sally finally get together with John?" or "Do the alien invaders win?".

Work on the keywords. You can change those as often as you need to until you hit the right combo. Put things in there that fit the book. Amazon has lists of words that will get you into more than the two categories you get to pick (on the help pages).

Now, categories. Some of those are only achieved by the keywords, which is why they're important. Getting in the right categories gets you in front of the readers who are searching for your kind of book.

To me, your books don't sound like science fiction. Unless there are aliens involved? Vampires -- no matter if they're your variation -- say fantasy or horror to me. Dark fantasy? Possibly mystery/thriller/suspense, depending on the storyline.

Good news is, you can refine this by analyzing the plot. What is the *main* focus of the story? Is it a romantic relationship that builds between two characters that ends in a HEA or a HFN ending? Then your main category would be romance, with the secondary plot chosen from there. Science fiction, dark fantasy, suspense, whatever.

There's something you need to know and understand: there is no "right" way to do this. There's only the way that works for you. People will give you opinions, tell you about their experiences and things they've tried, but it all comes down to you doing whatever it takes to refine your product so people buy it. If that means changing the blurb twenty times, or redoing the keywords twelve times, then so be it. If it takes ten times that, then get busy.

I'm saying all of this as someone who is working on doing all of this for my own work. I have a To Do list of things like changing covers, blurbs and keywords, looking for what works for the books. Some things have to wait due to lack of funds (the covers), but the others I can do for free. It's a process that I look at as being under the publisher hat. I write the books as an artist, but I publish as a business person. Two different jobs.

There's also the note that says, write more. Because all the ads in the world will do nothing, if there isn't something else for the reader to buy. That's why I'm not focused on promoting right now. I have one novel under one pen name, a short story collection and one short under the other. It's going to take time. Fortunately, I've got time. 

One last thing: listen to Half Pint.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

I don't spend anything -- my books are pure profit and I'm a fulltime author. So it's possible, you don't have to invest anything. Well, maybe you have to buy the software, but that's it. If you're tech savvy and have a good eye for what makes a cover look great then you'll be fine. Also get a great self-editing book, and just make sure to proofread your work a few times before hitting publish.

I plan on spending some money when I hit $10,000 a month (around April 2015 at my current rate).


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I don't know which end is up anymore. Everyone has great advice that seems logical, but that sometimes contradicts what someone else said... so whose advice do I take?


Everyone's! No one's!

That's the thing about self-publishing. There's no one right way to go about it. There are things that seem to be consistent in helping to get eyes on books but it's never the same way to all authors. What worked for one, doesn't or didn't work for someone else.

It takes some trial and error to figure it out.

The key is to do something, if it isn't working, do something else. Blurbs working? Great. Until they stop working, then you change them. Keywords not getting you into the subcats you need? Change them until they do and ride that wave until they don't work anymore. Then change them again. You can't just throw it out there and forget it.

I think she-la-ti-da made some good points.

Seems to me you have a choice. You write for the art, take your time, get that book spiffed into solid gold before you put it out there and have 5 years between releases at which time people have forgotten it, or you learn to cinch down the safety belt get some words on the page and get those releases out sooner. I think the conventional wisdom still applies. Build that backlist.

Depends on what you want.

Because from reading this thread, _I'm_ not sure what you want. Do you want to write art and publish and use the slow build to get people to read as a hobbyist or do you want to make money? You can do both in the long term,_ but maybe right now_ you can't do both on the same project _in the short term_. Start another book. Gone are the days of sitting in the Reading Rooms discussing your next book angsting over that perfect sentence.

Butt in chair, fingers on keyboard and getting those words on the page, daily are pretty much the only way to make money at this gig.

Just some ideas off the top of my head:

1) if you have just changed your keywords, give them some time to work. If after a month you don't see a rise, change them again.

2) you mentioned you had bought a kboarders book on how to write blurbs. I assume you mean Elhawk's. 



? If so, watch them again and take notes. Make yourself a cheatsheet on how to write them. Grab your blurb and apply it rigorously.

3) look at the top sellers in your genre, study their covers, study their blurbs. Look at the author's catalogue, study the release dates.

4) learn to format and make your own covers. It can be done for free, no need to buy expensive anything. The information on how to format is out there for free. The information on how to make your own covers as well as the software is free.

If you want to make money, it's got to be a business and you get to wear all the hats. If you want to write for the art, that's great and I wish you well, but unless you're spinning angelic choir level words, it could take a while.

One thing you can't do is release it and forget it. One thing you have to do is get that next book out sooner than five years.


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## Pauline Creeden (Aug 4, 2011)

Price pulsing helps - occasionally letting your book reach 99 cents or going free will get you some notice and some more reviews as you go. Submitting to tons of blogs for reviews and guest posts can be time consuming, but helpful - Thunderclap is a major spamming tool - but it's not so bad because it's just spamming everyone all at once on one given day - and mostly on twitter (which is spam central anyway) Also consider joining twitter chats like #YALitChat (if your book is YA) Not to say buy my book, but to get found by the community of readers you want to relate to.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kassidia (Sep 14, 2012)

I have been that broke before.  I've been hampered by depression, struggled with migraines, had empty cupboards and hungry kids, not known whether I was going to get up and see my car repossessed.  I do believe you can do this without an outlay of money (use canva.com for covers, trade services with other authors for proofreading, research on the internet, ask forums for advice).  Your ideas and your writing are GOOD.  When you're struggling with physical challenges or depression, any project can seem like a mountain, and I get that.

Now, I'm going to sound really harsh.

From your author profile on Amazon, it looks like you have kids and grandkid(s) who live with or around you.  I have several friends with Asperger's, and work with several others, and know the challenges and blessings of how their minds work.  I am glad you get a break during the day when your youngest is at school.  What can your oldest kid(s) do to help?

If you're looking for cans to recycle to feed your children, and you're feeding them a non-nutritive diet of Ramen and potatoes, it's time to make some hard choices, and check priorities.  Following a muse and wanting artistic beauty and perfection are wonderful, but honey, they don't feed the kids. 

I can completely understand being absolutely overwhelmed when there is so much information and critique coming in from everywhere.  The trick is to make it workable for you.

Quit worrying about the blurb.  Take whatever advice you liked from this thread and move on.

Quit worrying about being PERFECT.  YOU ARE GOOD. 

Don't look at the whole project, it will look like a mountain.  instead, focus on just ONE thing today.  Maybe that one thing is writing 250 words on your rough draft.  Maybe it is setting up a Twitter account, or sending your book to free review sites or freebooksy or whatever.  At the end of the day, whether you did it or not, MOVE ON.  Do the next little chunk.  It doesn't take long for those little chunks of writing to suddenly look like a book.  Set a timer for 10 minutes and see what you can accomplish!

Figure out the transportation bit.  Maybe that is a one day project.  Call your local bus company, find out if free door-to-door transport is available (in my area, it is).

Find a local writers group, or set one up.  Offer to host it, if you can.  Like-minded people are amazing, lift the spirits, and can take you in great and positive directions you wouldn't expect 

And please, stay in touch here.  People care about you, and believe in you and your writing.  The important thing is your life and the life of your precious family.  You have friends here.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Jana,
On the writing,  quit stressing over everyone's opinions.    If it works use it, if not don't.
Now here is something I do want you to do.  Next time you renew your food stamps, ask about other resources.    Or call Catholic Charities for other resources. 

I have a cheap food solution for you.  Instead of spending money on ramen, go over 1 aisle and pick up dried beans.  About the same price but will give you protein.  
Also ask at food stamps about commodities.    I am sure you qualify.    
And do tell the people that can help the situation.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Jana one more thing,
Can you forgive the mother hens?


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## Hoop (Nov 22, 2014)

I'm not going to hold your hand. I'm not going to argue with you over keywords and blurbs. I'm not going to tell you what you WANT to hear.
I'm going to tell you what you NEED to hear.
It's up to you to listen and act upon it, or choose to stay in your comfort zone.



JanaOnWheels said:


> First and foremost, I want to get this story out there. I want to say I accomplished at least this in life.


You've done that. It's published. You've accomplished that.



> Secondly, I'd like people to read it.


People have read it. It has reviews. You've accomplished this.



> Thirdly, I'd like to make a few dollars along the way, if possible.


You've done this. It has sold copies. Congratulations!
You've now beaten 99% of the wanna-be authors on the planet. Most people never accomplish what you have.



> And then I also have to divvy up my time with the other aspects of this venture - blurbs and keywords and categories and promotion, etc.


Says who? No one who is living on beans and food stamps, surely.

You have accomplished everything you set out to accomplish.
Your problem is not that your book isn't getting noticed. It's not that you have to do promotion. It's not that you have to re-write your blurb for the 115th time. It's not that your keywords are so generic that your book will NEVER come up in a search - I don't care what some USAT BS told you, it's the simple truth. Don't take keyword advice from someone whose books are found by people looking for the author's NAME. It's not that these books are THE NEXT BIG THING and just need the right money-flush movie producer to notice them.

*Here's your problem: You run out of money to feed your children before the end of the month.*

Priorities. 
First and foremost is to feed your kids. Period. PERIOD.
Screw getting the book of your heart out to the world so everyone can bask in its glory and tell you how talented you are. You need to feed your kids. The kids come before the books, lifelong dreams, recognition, fame, rave reviews, and interviews on NPR. You are not J.K. Rowling. You're not going to write a life-changing book that will instantly catapult you from welfare to billionaire. *Stop chasing that dream.* It's a dream, it's not reality.

The two books you have out are not going to feed your kids without cover changes to reflect genre - which costs money, promotion that costs money, blurb and keyword re-writing which costs time, and a third book which costs time AND money.

You don't have money. You need money. Do not waste your time doing something that is not going to guarantee you money. Putting food on your table and giving yourself and your boys stability is more important than ANYTHING else in your life at this moment.

Here's what you need to do, with no waffling, no confusing language, nothing to make your brain hurt. A nice, simple list:
*1.* Put these two books on the back-burner. Do not pull them from Amazon. Let them sit there, they might still pull a sale here or there. 
*2.* Write down any last notes you have for Book 3 so you don't forget them, and tuck them and that book in a folder on your hard drive where it's going to sit until you have the LUXURY of both time and money to play around with it.
*3.* Start writing short erotica or erotic-romance stories in a genre that sells. Anywhere from 5k-10k words each. You like paranormal - that's great. Erotic paranormal sells. Write short sexy paranormal romance stories. Preferably in a series - each story deals with an alpha-type man from the same werewolf pack that finds a woman he can't resist, for example.
*4.* Bookmark this link, and then use the links on it to find images for your covers: http://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/where-to-find-free-stock-photos-online.html
*5.* Bookmark this link, and download the recommended free fonts: http://www.creativindie.com/300-fool-proof-fonts-to-use-for-your-book-cover-design-an-epic-list-of-best-fonts-per-genre/
You'll find most of the fonts listed at Font Squirrel. http://www.fontsquirrel.com/
*6.* Google "using free photoshop to make ebook covers" and watch/read the tutorials. Look at the covers for the "New and Popular" books in the genre you've picked to see what yours should look like. Then make your covers with the images and fonts you've gotten from the links above using the free photoshop program that you have.
*7.* Upload your new short story with PROPER keywords that relate to the genre and a blurb that tells the readers what they're going to get if they buy/borrow your book. Nothing generic. Tell them the characters can't resist each other, can't keep their hands off each other, are inexorably drawn together despite all the odds, and that it's a SHORT, SEXY READ that will get their hearts pumping and set their panties on fire. Check the box to put the story into KDP/KU. Check the box that it's in a series - give the series a provocative name.
*8.* Write the next short story. Create a cover. Make sure the cover has something in it that looks similar to the first one - a branding bar at the bottom with the series name and your pen name in the same font as the first cover, for example. Like so: http://www.amazon.com/Milly-Taiden/e/B00978C7TI/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1
*9.* Screw promotion. Screw social media. Screw author platforms. Screw blog reviews and Goodreads and things that waste time. These are not on your radar. You do not have time for these things. Use all of your time to write another story.
*10.* Do it again. And again. And again.

Think it can't be done? Think again. Pay particular attention to Sargon's and Half Pint's posts here:
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196306.0.html

It CAN be done. You DO have time to write 5k shorts. You ARE able to do this from your wheelchair while the boys are in school. Others have done it with similar problems and distractions. You obviously have a talent for writing, judging from your reviews. Now put that talent to work and improve your situation.
Playing with your lifelong dream can come later. AFTER you've got 6 months worth of backup food in the pantry of the home/apartment that you have no problem affording and an X-WAV in the driveway so you're not dependent on public transportation. ( http://www.allinonemobility-shop.com/hoelwixco.html )

Concentrate on getting money into your household ASAP so you're actually living, not just subsisting. Anything else is just ego-stroking and making excuses. Stephen Hawking gives lectures, writes books, and wows the world using just his eyes and one weak finger. You have the use of your hands. You have a capable mind. You have a computer and an internet connection. You have a marketable talent that does not rely on your physical capabilities. USE THESE THINGS FOR EVERY PENNY THAT THEY'RE WORTH.
Best of luck.

Edited: Half Pint's username, didn't realize she'd changed it!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> I did the best I could to incorporate everything . . .


Okay, I think this may be what the problem is. You just can't push everything into one action. You're just going to have to do one thing, try something else, do a third thing, over and over and over, like a_g said. Try everything to see what works, then do the same for the next book.

I really wish there was a one-size-fits-all element to this publishing thing, but there just isn't. Except maybe the "write more" thing, and even that depends on having the best book you possibly can and get it in front of the right readers. You've got the first part, now you just need to work on the second. You're close. I know you don't feel like it, but I think you are. All you really need is some tweaking of what you've already got.

So take a deep breath, and decide on one thing to focus on. Maybe flesh out that blurb just a little more. Your first one that you posted was way too long. But it had some good parts, which someone (I forget who now) rewrote for you. Use that, and see what happens.

While you're redoing the blurb, go ahead and change some (or all) of the keywords. That's one day. The next day, write 500 words. Even if it takes you all day. Try to write every day if you can, but I understand you have issues that many of us don't deal with so it may not be possible to do it every day.

But aim for consistency. Three days a week, every day, every other day, Mondays and Fridays, whatever works for you. Maybe the days you aren't writing can be the day you work on the next book's blurb, or the day you submit your book to free sites, or whatever other job needs to be done.

Give things a couple of weeks and watch what happens. If it's not getting any better, try something else. Try _one_ thing. Reevaluate and try something else. It's going to take you longer to do stuff than other writers, but you'll get it done. It's like the old saying about how to eat an elephant: one bite at a time.


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## GTC (Dec 18, 2013)

I think some people just find it perplexing why a talented writer, especially someone with the added physical restriction of a wheelchair, would choose to scrat around finding bottles and cans to recycle in order to make enough money to feed their kids when they could just follow Hoop's very simple suggestions and make much more money from their computer. It's quite mind-boggling to me actually, but the very best of luck to you and I hope someone comes up with some handy promo links for you.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

I think we all kind of focused on the blurbs, keywords and covers because it doesn't matter how many places you promo your book if it's not targeted to the right audience.

It's like...if you want green beans, you're going to go where the vegetables are. If the store puts them with the ice cream, the people who want green beans will never find them, and the people who are looking for ice cream probably won't buy them.

That said, here's a link I bookmarked a while back: http://www.rachelkburke.com/best-websites-for-marketing-your-amazon-kdp-select-free-days

Not all of the sites there are free, and some of the links might be outdated, but it's a good place to start.


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## Rue Hirsch (May 4, 2014)

Hi Jana, have you tried Bublish? Its free to use for the first month. Its a service I'm just now checking out so I don't have much to tell, but its another place where you can promote your work. The site is pretty cool and allows you to put up author notes.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

I understand about following your heart and the story that's in it.  But maybe you can do that and write more commercially.  Not to make light of your struggles, but it sounds like you may be overlooking some nonfic possibilities.  Your life has given you many obstacles, and you adapted. Is there any advice you can share in ebook form?  Even if the answer is no, try thinking of other fiction to write.  Do you have a blog?  If you find it hard trying to write for money over heart, try it out on a blog first.  You may find out it's not all one or the other in this new fiction, but a mix of heart and business.


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

A couple of more observations and then I'm out.

1) writing by committee never works. Like I said before, read all the advice, look at what you _can_ do. Do one thing. See if it works. If it doesn't, try something else. Make a list, go down the list one at a time. In this is implied that you can't be doing that every day. You have to do something and then give it time to work (or not work). A week? Two weeks? I don't know, pick a time and stick to it. For myself, I give it two weeks. Just a preference.

1a) when you come up on new information, instead of racing off to immediately try it, stop and think about it for a moment. Does this resonate with you? Is it something that is actually doable? Is it something that you can tuck away for further thought, after you've read up more on it? There may be conflicting advice out there but eventually you'll see a pattern of agreement on some of it. Check the date it was given and if it's recent, consider it more fully.

2) there are nuggets of advice tucked in throughout this thread. For example:



Kenzi said:


> That said, here's a link I bookmarked a while back: http://www.rachelkburke.com/best-websites-for-marketing-your-amazon-kdp-select-free-days
> 
> Not all of the sites there are free, and some of the links might be outdated, but it's a good place to start.


You responded to Kenzi. So my next question is, and I mean this sincerely, have you looked at that link? Do you have it bookmarked to look at later when you have the time and energy? Put a plan of action in now that you'll check out 2 or 3 a day to see if they're still viable and keep a list.

List and plan. Set a goal, break it down into manageable steps until you can do one thing a day and not have it wipe you out. Work that plan every day.

3) don't make decisions based on feelings of desperation. That will cause you to make bad decisions. I'm sensing a great deal of desperation here, but that may also be due to the fact that you just wanted some promotion advice and you have well-intentioned advice coming at you from all angles. 

3a) by the same token, check your knee-jerk reactions. You're dismissing a lot of advice as you can't do that. Instead of saying 'I can't', step back, put it on a list for consideration later. You don't have to act on it _right now_ so don't make a decision to do it or not do it _right now_. There may be a way to brainstorm around the sticking point you have with it to get it done.

I'm a big fan of lists. Big lists, little lists, plans of actions, goals, steps. Brainstorming on paper and seeing what falls out. There's an art to brainstorming and that's letting your brain come up with the wildest, craziest ideas ever and not dismissing them outright as undoable. Dream big, brainstorm large.

I'm also a big fan of doing stuff for free. GIMP is free. Learning curve is steep but if you put in the time (and since you say you can't write on command, take that time you decide you can't write and put it into learning something). I don't know if you have MSWord but there are a few sites that show you how to make covers with it. Again, if you're not writing, why not put that time to use learning how to do it. They can turn out some fairly decent covers.

You have to dig up the information. You have to snatch it out of the air. It doesn't come with a label or signs to let you know it's free and it's good. But if you're waiting for inspiration (and thus not writing) and you're refusing to learn how to do your own covers, the only other advice I have is read. Read everything. Research. Research what those who are successful are doing. Where are their books? What do their blurbs look like? What is their output? Find writers who write slowly and try to figure out what they're doing.

15 minutes a day. If you don't have that time to invest in your book/writing, then it's clear that your priority isn't there. That's not something to be ashamed of, just something to be realistic about.

There's no magic advice. There's no secret handshake. There's no mystical pill to swallow. It's a lot of work and a lot of elbow grease and digging around to find something useful you can do out of all the low flying advice out there.

And what worked with this book, may or may not work with the next one. I really hate that part.

Sorry this is so long. I don't have time to edit it to make it more streamlined.


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## carolexi (Aug 31, 2014)

Jana--

Perhaps you can consider freelancing or doing some virtual assistant work from home. Consider Odesk.com or Elance.com. Even Mturk.com. Heck, even Fiverr.com.

Find something you feel comfortable doing that can relieve the money pressure for now.

Then, I think you'll feel a lot less overwhelmed with your book promos.

I think you feel a certain way about yourself and about your abilities that just isn't reality. You've written NC-17 stories before but you can't write in extremely profitable genres right now because you just aren't feeling it?

You've been very candid on these posts about your situation. People then feel like they have the right to comment on those situations, as hard as that might be to take.

If kids aren't eating and are suffering, people are going to feel for them deeply and ARE going to offer actionable advice that has worked for them. They ARE going to be extremely baffled that you aren't taking that advice when it's extremely clear that you're talented enough and smart enough to CRUSH it with the advice they are giving you.

Yes, you can earn money with your books with $0 in promotion. You've been given priceless advice on that in this thread. You've been given advice in this thread that could turn your entire life around and help your children.

You're clearly a wonderful mother; please don't ignore advice given with good intentions just because you've "always been poor" and feel that's the way it has to stay.

Good luck.


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## carolexi (Aug 31, 2014)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I promise you, they're not. Saying that we have one night per week where we eat ramen and potatoes is NOT letting my kids go hungry and suffer. In fact, my kids eat healthier than a lot of kids, because we are poor and cannot afford convenience foods. We don't even eat spaghetti sauce out of a jar! We make it, because spaghetti sauce is $4.99 for the big enough jar to feed everyone, but I can buy 4 POUNDS of tomatoes for 99 cents! And that's just one example. No soups in cans, whole ingredients cooked all day in the crock pot. Homemade mashed potatoes instead of flakes because a 10 pound bag is 99 cents and the box of flakes is $3!
> 
> I could go on and on, but I won't.
> 
> I really do appreciate that people care, truly I do, but I think along the way, people have mistaken me saying I'm poor with the images of starving children begging in the streets. That's not the situation. We have a home. We eat. And we're poor. Lots of people are poor; it's a sad reality nowadays, unfortunately.


You had your son dash out to deposit ~99 cents at the bank from scrounging in the couch cushions.

Please take people's advice on the thread. It is very, very, very easy to earn extra money as long as you have an Internet connection. But you're shutting down everyone with a recommendation, which is maddening. Yes, lots of people are poor. "Nowadays" and always. But you have intelligence, creativity, a home and an Internet connection, which means you can do something about it, which makes you extremely lucky. Not everyone is so lucky. You're luckier than the vast majority of poor people in the entire history of the world. Think about it. Think about what's at your fingertips, right now.

You can lead a horse to water...


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## J.T. Williams (Aug 7, 2014)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> I don't spend anything -- my books are pure profit and I'm a fulltime author. So it's possible, you don't have to invest anything. Well, maybe you have to buy the software, but that's it. If you're tech savvy and have a good eye for what makes a cover look great then you'll be fine. Also get a great self-editing book, and just make sure to proofread your work a few times before hitting publish.
> 
> I plan on spending some money when I hit $10,000 a month (around April 2015 at my current rate).


How many titles/penames(if you use them) do you have?


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi Jana
Have you thought of making book 1 free right away? Like now?

If it obviously feeds into book two then you will get follow on readers and you can put a big flashing sign (metaphorically) with a mailing list link, and a promise that book three is coming at some point, at the back of book two.

That way, you would get more readers for book two and you should get a few mailing list sign ups.

Also, are your books available on Google? I only ask because they pay at the end of the month rather than having to wait 60 days. Plus I understand that right now Amazon is price matching to Google before anywhere else.

Anyway, it would be a good way to promote the book. Plus as you already said, a load of promo sites only want free books. So surely it would be win-win?


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## skyle (Oct 13, 2014)

Hoop said:


> Here's what you need to do, with no waffling, no confusing language, nothing to make your brain hurt. A nice, simple list:
> *1.* Put these two books on the back-burner. Do not pull them from Amazon. Let them sit there, they might still pull a sale here or there.
> *2.* Write down any last notes you have for Book 3 so you don't forget them, and tuck them and that book in a folder on your hard drive where it's going to sit until you have the LUXURY of both time and money to play around with it.
> *3.* Start writing short erotica or erotic-romance stories in a genre that sells. Anywhere from 5k-10k words each. You like paranormal - that's great. Erotic paranormal sells. Write short sexy paranormal romance stories. Preferably in a series - each story deals with an alpha-type man from the same werewolf pack that finds a woman he can't resist, for example.
> ...


Hi Hoop
Just wanted to say what a brilliant and useful post this was. Maybe not for Jana, but definitely for me 
I've totally bookmarked it. Thank you!


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

JT Williams said:


> How many titles/penames(if you use them) do you have?


16 novellas, one pen name. I haven't even started writing the books I really care about (the ones under my real name/books that have been in my head for a decade).


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I had considered that, actually, but it was suggested that it might be better to wait until after the third book is published to make the first book free.
> 
> No, the books aren't on Google. I hadn't even heard of that before the other day. I just have it through Amazon and everyone D2D distributes to. How does one distribute through Google?


In the long term, yeah, it might be better to wait. That is definitely the standard advice. But it doesn't mean you _have_ to do it that way!
I went perma-free as soon as I had my second book out simply because I wanted to get more people reading and reviewing book one and because I was happy with the read through rate I got. I still think I was right, simply because the sales of book two funded the costs of book three. Which was a real bonus.
Yes, it is true that my read-through rate went up when I had three books out, but I don't really think I lost a lot of readers. Hard to know...
I suggest it because it might be quite a while for you until book three is ready (from what you have said) and what is the harm in getting some extra money now as well as extra promo opportunities and also maybe some names on a mailing list in the meantime?
But it is totally up to you. It just seemed like it might be a help to do it now rather than wait.

Google Play is a great avenue for me. I make the same or more on there as on Amazon, though a LOT of people have told me they make nothing at all, so who knows. You do have to upload direct though and it can be time consuming the first time. But hey, you're a smart girl, I'm sure you will get your head around it. Plus there is a wonderful post breaking down every step: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,167655.0.html
You just need to set aside the time to do it and work your way through. I promise that it isn't actually nearly as daunting as it first looks. x


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> LOL! Oh, I don't know, my brain does like to shut down when things seem daunting!  But you said it wasn't nearly as, and there IS a step by step...
> 
> Heehee
> 
> Thanks! I'll see about wrapping my brain around this tonight when the kiddos are in bed!


Cool, good luck! And if you do decide to go Free with book one then dont forget to let us know so we can all point it out to Amazon for you and get them to price match asap


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## Hoop (Nov 22, 2014)

skyle said:


> Hi Hoop
> Just wanted to say what a brilliant and useful post this was. Maybe not for Jana, but definitely for me
> I've totally bookmarked it. Thank you!


You're welcome!
If you don't have the free version of Photoshop, get GIMP: http://www.gimp.org/
Then just change the google search phrase to say GIMP. It seems that there's actually a lot more tutorials out there on making ebook covers with GIMP than there are with Photoshop.

Also, for anyone else who might be looking at the list of free royalty-free photos in that post and shirking at the licenses, don't forget that if you use your own photographs you own the complete license and copyright. All current cellphones have the capability to take cover-worthy pictures now; just go into your camera's settings and put it on the highest resolution available.

Doesn't have to be anything National Geographic would buy, or anything that would reveal who you are.
A simple shot of a leg in a high heel will work. A top-down shot of cleavage in a low-cut (or pulled very low) shirt or a pretty bra will work. Put on some lipstick and take a close-up of your lips, maybe biting your bottom lip on the side. If you have a significant other, get him/her to help and make it a fun night. Just be sure to have good lighting - bring in every lamp in the house and aim it at what you're taking a picture of, if you have to. Sunlight is best if you can swing taking a picture out in the sun. Most book covers do not include the entire photo - they're cropped on a certain eye-catching part of the photo - so don't stress if your whole background isn't perfect. You'll crop it out.

You don't even have to be IN the picture - get a pretty high-heel shoe, set it on a backdrop of a pretty solid-colored sheet, curtain, tablecloth or blanket. Done. Maybe drape a nice string of fake pearls over the shoe, or drop some sparkly earrings next to it, or lay the lacy top of a thigh-high stocking next to it. Even a steaming cup of hot coffee next to a pretty pair of panties on a desk or tabletop would make a great cover for the right story. Got a story about a construction worker? Grab hubby's scuffed-up work/yard boots and take a picture of them with a pair of your panties draped over the toe.

For anyone who does have a small budget, the local dollar store can be a gold mine. They sell fake stick-on fingernails for a buck. They sell panties with lacy edges for a buck. They sell sparkly earrings, pantyhose, candles, tablecloths, pretty plates (without chips in the edges! ha), single champagne glasses... all kinds of things that can be used as props for a buck.
Keep in mind though that DollarPhotoClub has great professional images for $1 each. You have to buy a 10-pack, but you get 10 quality pics/images/line art for that. If you can find the pics you need there, it's worth not having to buy the props and do it yourself. However, if you do it yourself then you can take multiple slightly-different pictures and use them for series covers.

Got old lingerie in a box that doesn't fit you anymore? Pull that stuff out, drape it across your pillows, and take a picture of it. Hang it up in the window and take a picture of it (put a sheer curtain behind it if necessary). 
Does hubby have a nice suit he only wears for special occasions? Have him put it on with a nice tie. Take pics of his chest and shoulders. If he's got a nice jawline (especially if he has a close-cut beard), get a shot of him from the bottom of his nose down to his chest. If he's buff, have him open the shirt and show it off. No facial shots. Does he have a nice butt? Get some shots of it in the suit, in jeans, and even in scuffed-up ripped jeans that he only wears to work on the car. Get a shot of his hand in the suit sleeve, holding a champagne glass (even a $1 plastic one) with some ginger ale in it that looks like champagne. Take a pic of him holding the glass up to his lips (nose down, don't get the eyes).

This also works for all other kinds of stereotypes... put him in a flannel shirt (preferably with sleeves rolled up and a thermal top underneath, pushed halfway up to his elbows), take pics, boom: lumberjack, outdoorsman, manly man, were shifter. Black leather jacket? Motorcycle gang member, rocker, bad boy. Old football shirt? Jock, football player. 
Same thing for the ladies. A nice blouse and jacket becomes a powerful female CEO, a librarian, a rich desperate housewife. Play dress-up, dress-down. It does not matter if you're not barbie-sized. First off, you're going to crop to the important parts, and secondly the bulk of your readership is going to be women who look just like you and who will better relate to a character who isn't a supermodel.

Can you get out and walk/ride around your neighborhood? Excellent.
Take shots of motorcycles. Get close-ups of the engines, the front wheels, the seat. Take shots of the noses of expensive cars. Take close-up shots of interesting doors, alleyways, brick walls, graffiti, flowers. Even better - take a pair of lacy panties with you and quickly drape the panties over something to get a shot.

Don't take pics of other people, even if it's your very bestest lifelong friend who would love to help out. Other people means model releases and covering your butt for any future changes of mind, even if you can't identify them in the picture. You don't want to go there. You don't have to go there - props will work just fine.

This doesn't have to be hard, and it doesn't have to be expensive. We're talking erotica and e-rom covers here. You just need to get the point across that that's what the book is - it doesn't have to be NYT Bestseller quality covers. Once you sell some copies you can always update the cover to something more expensive anyway, if you want to.

Just be sure you've got as much lighting on the prop/subject as you can have, and the camera/cellphone is as stable as possible. Use a tripod if you have one; if not, stack up books to make a stable base high enough to get your shot and touch the shutter/"take picture" button as gently as possible so you don't wiggle the phone. If you're holding the camera/phone (like for outdoor shots), take a deep breath. Let it out halfway, hold it, and then take the picture. Finish breathing AFTER you've taken the shot. (Same as if you were shooting a target with a rifle, if you've done that.) That will get you as stable as possible.


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## C Love (Nov 22, 2014)

Thank you, Hoop! That's the spirit, looking for solutions rather than focussing on problems. Now if you could also tell me how I get a hubby so I can dress him up I will be eternally grateful    (Seriously. I'm asking.) 

As for Jana, the question you keep asking as for who to listen to? Yourself. Get advice, consider it - never hurts to learn something new - but in the end, do what YOU like best. 

Just my personal opinion, but your first blurb, while maybe not perfect, really got me curious. I really wanted to buy your book after reading that.
The current blurb is just plain lame. Never would have stopped to look inside, let alone buy it.
As others have said, play around, it can't hurt.

I know it's not the advice you seek, but all the advertising space in the world won't do you any good if you have a bland product. 
Feedback is such a thing. I don't know who you asked about your blurb. You wrote the book yourself, I reckon? I mean, you didn't go out after each paragraph and check with other people if they liked what you wrote? Fly with what is right for you. 

All the best to you.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Evenstar,
> 
> I have some questions about keywords... if that's okay?
> 
> ...


Hiya, this is not set in stone as no one really knows, but as far as we can tell - The whole point of keyword stuffing is so that whatever phrase they type in, as long as you have the relevant keywords, then you should show up. The more spot on you are with what people search for, the more likely you will come up on that first page of results. So no, it doesn't need to be the exact wording, but it definitely helps! Basically, I think that you want to have the exact words but in any old order in your keywords.

Only put in the telepathic element if you think people are going to look for it! Try a search and see what comes up, now try several terms and see what comes up. If it is not anything relevant, then the term is wrong and it wont help you. I suspect that not that many people will be searching for a fiction book with telepathy. They _will_ be searching for a sci-fi romance though, and the telepathy will just be an added element when they find you. You need terms that are popular, so you get lots of hits, yet not too popular that you can't be found in amongst all the others.

For both books, I would use the same phrases that are you main ones, but maybe throw in some different search terms as well to give yourself even more exposure. Use the more unusual ones for book two.

If any one can add to that, then it would probably be helpful.


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## rjspears (Sep 25, 2011)

This is a great thread.  The advice certainly runs the gambit from how to write your blurb to how you can save money at the Dollar Store.

I know the $0 publishing/promoting budget well.  

I've released four novels and two long novellas along with handful of short stories in the last two years.  I have spent some money on promotion.  I did a Booksends promotion.  I spent some money giving away free copies of my books for reviews.  I've participated in two large Facebook events.  I design my own covers, get friends and family to beta read and proofread. 

I have released three of my books through a small press and three on my own.  

As far as sales, I've sold around $250 books in that time.  Now, most are those are set at $.99, so I'm not getting rich.  In fact, with website hosting and other expenses, I'm not sure I've made any money.  

I do use Photoshop, but would start using GIMP if I had to. 

The only advice that I objected to was the advice to write erotica.  I'm not sure how you write something you have no passion for...to make money.


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## AbbyBabble (Mar 16, 2013)

Jana, your cover and blurb worked for me, for whatever that's worth. It didn't trigger my OMG I NEED THIS NOW reaction, but that's rare and hard to trigger. It piqued my curiosity enough so that if I saw it again, or if a friend recommended it, I'd add it to my to read pile.

The fact that you've been doing this for five years with so few sales is disappointing and worrisome, and I'm sure it's very frustrating for you.

From what I understand, it's important to get visible on Amazon's Hot New Releases list. I'm not sure how recently a book needs to have been published to get on there, or how many sales and reviews it needs. But there's something about that list; I've heard a few successful indie authors mention it as a key before the snowball effect. Your older books may not be eligible to trigger the algorithm. But maybe you can re-release new editions? Or write sequels, or new books, and keep trying?

I figure that if you keep writing great books that no one else is writing, they may linger in obscurity for a while--but it just takes one to hit best-seller lists and get visible, and the rest will follow. You're not wasting your time. Theoretically (and hopefully realistically), the hard work will pay off.



JanaOnWheels said:


> I tried a giveaway before... just the book itself. I posted that I would give away three FREE ebook copies because it was National Book Day. No one came forward. No one wanted a FREE book. That was frustrating.


Three copies isn't much, especially for a completely unknown author. From what I understand, building reader trust is extremely important. You may need to do a lot of giveaways early in your writing career. Even when books are free, they cost a lot of time to read. I don't think you can expect sales until the reader trusts you. So getting them to read your books (or getting endorsements and reviews) is much more important than sales, at first. Once you can say "I sold 500,000 copies in a year!"-- that is a badge that readers can trust. You could raise your book price after that.

Good luck. And thank you for being brave enough to post about your problems getting sales and readers. It's important to hear those experiences, alongside the success stories.


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## Gary Anderson (Apr 17, 2014)

Greenthecolour said:


> I think some people just find it perplexing why a talented writer, especially someone with the added physical restriction of a wheelchair, would choose to scrat around finding bottles and cans to recycle in order to make enough money to feed their kids when they could just follow Hoop's very simple suggestions and make much more money from their computer. It's quite mind-boggling to me actually, but the very best of luck to you and I hope someone comes up with some handy promo links for you.


That is a trollish statement. I will give you a break since you are new here, but on forums I navigate, that is troll talk. Obviously some people like my daughter in law are perplexed that people are poor. She once said one time, that people in Africa can do something about being poor. Well, maybe a few. But she has no clue, as you have no clue.


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## jesrphoto (Aug 7, 2012)

I didn't read the whole thread because there's a lot here, so maybe someone else mentioned it, but if you're looking to make extra money with writing - self publishing is not the only way to do it.
There's all sorts of freelance writing jobs to be done on the web.  Elance.com (my favorite of the freelancing bid sites), freelancer.com, and guru.com are sites where you can bid on different jobs for hire and there are always tons of writing gigs for native English speakers.  SEO, blogging, writing press releases, ghost writing, all sorts of stuff.  

Might be a way for some to help fund their writing (or just a second source of income).  As a freelancer, I experience a lot of ups and downs in my graphics work and use bid sites and writing jobs as "when I have the time" sources of income to balance life out a little.  I also do Virtual Assistant work sometimes.


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## GTC (Dec 18, 2013)

Gary Anderson said:


> That is a trollish statement. I will give you a break since you are new here, but on forums I navigate, that is troll talk. Obviously some people like my daughter in law are perplexed that people are poor. She once said one time, that people in Africa can do something about being poor. Well, maybe a few. But she has no clue, as you have no clue.


I'm sorry you've interpreted my post as trollish, but I can assure you that you've very much got the wrong end of the stick. For what it's worth I'll try to explain my previous post more clearly...

What I was actually attempting to do is explain why people in the thread were offering extremely well-meaning and practical advice on how the OP could make money with her writing, which the OP apparently didn't want. The summary of the thread to that point as far as I can see is that the OP just wanted advice for free promo, but the explanations she gave as to why it needed to be free were so severe that it led people to believe she would benefit from making more money than her current books can realistically make, and those people gave her some great advice. The OP then explained why she can't put those suggestions into action - one of which was that she can't make herself write without her muse on her side.

I only responded because the OP seemed a bit frustrated that people responding to her like they were (in the post immediately before mine, for reference), and the explanation is that people (yes, myself included) find it strange that someone with a talent and the wherewithal to make good money from that talent would choose harder work for less money. Perhaps my words were a little harsh and I apologise to the OP if they caused any hurt or over-simplified her situation. The fact remains though that there is advice in this thread that if taken would be life-changing for someone in the OP's situation; not immediately given the time and physical limitations, but in time absolutely. If the OP had never written in her life I wouldn't have supported this advice - it isn't for everyone - but she's written two well-received books and is the perfect 'candidate' for it - but obviously it's entirely her decision and I genuinely offer nothing but best wishes for her future.

I'm really not sure what to say to your comments about your daughter in law and Africa. What part of Africa is she talking about? What people? What does she think they should do? I spend a lot of time in Nigeria, Ghana and Kenya, and one of the major frustrations people have is the way Africa is perceived, so it's something I'm interested in. Possibly too off-tangent for this thread, though


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

My take on this is that everything costs - and from the standpoint of being an author, that cost is typically either time or money. But make no mistake: time _is_ money! You either pay dollars for someone to do your covers, or you spend time doing it yourself. You pay for first-rate editing or you [hopefully] spend time doing it yourself. The same with formatting, promoting your book, and so on. (It's no so different from a day job, where - in essence - you trade your oh-so-valuable time for dollars.) Thus, you have to make a decision as to whether (and how much of) your time is better spent writing the next book or trying to promote the current one. Unfortunately, that is a very individualized answer for everyone.

That said, there are methods of book promotion that you can engage in that require very little in terms of dollars: engaging with readers on platforms like Goodreads; seeking out book bloggers and trying to get them to review your book; posting free samples on places like Wattpad. As to whether or not any of that is beneficial, it's hard to say, as everyone's experience is different.

Regardless, if you are trying to make money with your work (and it sounds like you are), you have to treat writing like a business. Like any other business, in fact. That means having, among other things, a business plan, strategy, and a budget. Moreover, most businesses I know of do some kind of marketing, whether it be yellow pages (assuming anyone knows what the yellow pages are any more), direct mailings, handing out flyers, etc. That means having an advertising budget. You wouldn't open a new restaurant, auto shop, etc. without the ability to at least put up a "Grand Opening" banner, putting an ad in the local paper, or something to indicate that you are open for business. Likewise, while you can do some things for free (as noted above) you really need an ad budget for your publishing business. It doesn't have to be much, as there are plenty of places where you can advertise without pouring in a bunch of moolah (bknights, Fussy Librarian, etc.), but you should focus on having _something_ in the advertising pot.

Personally, I believe that the best form of advertising is simply to write the next book. (This may, to an extent, sound contrary to what I wrote in the prior paragraph, but I don't think they are mutually exclusive.) With that in mind - and if you're adamant about spending as little as possible on promotion - I'd say to put a link to your mail list in your book, put it up for sale, and move on to the next one. In my experience, that will do more for you in terms of visibility and sales than almost anything else.


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## GTC (Dec 18, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Yes, the advice I was given was good. Great, even. But just because the advice was great doesn't mean I can take it.
> ...
> Please do not mistake this post as me being angry - I'm not. I'm just overwhelmed and flustered. I didn't mean for this thread to become some argument about my poverty, I just wanted some tips on how to navigate promotion. Maybe I shouldn't have shared as much as I did, but one of my major faults, if it can be considered such, is that I am an open book and honest to an extreme. If I shared too much that caused people to become concerned, I'm sorry.


It's ok! I didn't actually want to drag things back to these points as I agree they've been made enough times already, but being called a clueless troll got my goat a bit so I may have gone a bit far in trying to explain myself 

Honestly, it's not worth getting overwhelmed and flustered about - just pick out the advice that you can use, to do with free promo (it looks like there's been some good ideas), and leave the rest. Some people (full disclosure, still me!) may not understand what it's like to be unable to write whatever story/genre we choose, but the fact is we don't need to understand, our understanding or lack thereof is not relevant to your life so don't let it get to you. You're an intelligent, capable woman who can make her own decisions, and nobody on the internet should be able to make you feel otherwise.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

Greenthecolour said:


> ...just pick out the advice that you can use...


This. A thousand times this. Not every bit of advice is useful for everyone. You have to cherrypick and make use of what works best for you, so don't feel obligated to walk the same path someone else does (eg, if I've given advice that doesn't make sense for you or your situation, ignore it). Remember, there's not just one yellow brick road to Oz - there's a million of them.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> LOL! I'm not laughing at you, seriously I'm not - you have been trying so very hard to help me and I greatly appreciate it! - but wow, this tightrope could not be more difficult to traverse, could it?
> 
> I know I'm just going to come across as ridiculous now, but I honestly don't understand a lot of what you just said.
> 
> ...


No worries. You are totally right - it* is* a tightrope. That's why so many people find it hard and get it wrong. I'm always tweaking mine trying to find the golden combinations. But I do know they are working for me a lot better now than they used to be when I just had Teen Romance, young adult love, high school boys, stuff like that. Because even though all those terms are relevant to me, they got lost in the "noise" of all the other authors with the same thing.

When I say "have exact words" I mean what are the key phrases that someone might do a search for? Amazon will help you with that. Start typing in a search and it will offer you popular suggestions. But otherwise maybe look at the titles that come up on "Alien Takeover", or "Non human Love" stuff like that (I haven't read your book so I can't be specific).

When I said use the more unusual terms for book two, I meant the ones that appear but are not so popular. Basically it isnt easy. You have to work out what people might search for. That's what should be in your keywords. So if a small handful of people search for "New York City alien encounter" and you have set it in New York, then maybe don't use that term for book one (which is always the much more important one to be found) but you could use that term in book two keywords instead. That way if people find it and are interested then it will in turn lead them to book one.

Is that any clearer?


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> I see in so many threads that a lot of people spend a great deal of money on publishing and promoting, from book covers to editing, from ads to promotional 'swag'...
> 
> Is there anyone out there who has seen some measure of success without spending any money (or has spent very little money)? And if so, could you maybe share some tips?


I suppose it depends what you mean by a measure of success. I did spend $15 on KBoards promotion site with one book, but it didn't get me many sales. That was my first book and I was delighted with the reviews, enough to keep writing and that is what I did. I put that book on countdown a fortnight ago and it got picked up and distributed by bookscream, which made me 200 sales and still dribbling in at full price, but it cost nothing. I have made something every single month since I started, August last year, and for some reason a book I published in june really took off and made me $500 that month along with my others. I manage to sell at least one of each book per month, usually more, and I now have a few books published. I have found the best and cheapest commodity to promotion is patience and writing more books.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

JanaOnWheels said:


> Yes! So I should go onto Amazon, start searching a bunch of keyword phrases that are relevant to my book(s), and then check to see what comes up - if it shows that too many people search those keywords, my books might get lost in them, if it shows too few people search them, they won't net me much traffic?? Am I in the ballpark on this, at least?


Yes. That is basically it. But it isnt how many people search for those keywords, it is how many hits those keywords produce. If it is millions then your books will be lost. But you want to find the keywords that millions of people are searching for and yet are not being over-used.

I absolutely know that sounds impossible but it isnt. What I mean is - if you search for LOVE in books you will get millions of hits, but if you search for Werewolf Love, you will get a much more specific list of products, if you narrow it again and search for Werewolf and Mermaid Love, then you should get quite a small list of hits as I can't imagine there are millions of books in that niche. So you would, in an ideal world, basically want something between search two and search three. See how I'm trying to narrow down a search to something that is a popular search but does not create a huge list of relevant products. You want your product to be the one that comes up at least on the first page of products that are relevant to the search.
For my book Halloween magic and mayhem, I have used Paranormal Romance, but then specified further with Paranormal Romance Witch Werewolf, so if people want a book that covers witches and werewolves in love then I'm up there. Then I cheated and put paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love. I basically used "keyword stuffing" to cover my bases. The romance is between a witch and a werewolf but there are zombies and ghosts in the story and the werewolf is a shifter. So I show up even if they are searching for a slightly different term. If they are searching for a zombie romance I show up. They will quickly see that I am not a zombie romance, but they might be intrigued anyway as the book is a romance and there are zombies in it. Do you see what I am doing? I use repetition to ensure that I get close to the exact search term they might put in AND I keyword stuff to make sure that I at least have a combination of the words they put in.

As far as I know, that is how keywords work. They also serve one more purpose, which is to get you in the right "categories". So when you are done with keywords relevant to search terms, then you should also have a quick think about keywords that are category specific. For example, if you want to appear in the category "Short Stories>Alien Landings>England" then you want to put that phrase in as a keyword. The best way to locate these is to do a search for a popular book that is similar to yours and see what categories they have gotten into. You will be surprised by some of the categories but a lot of people search that way, so it is a good idea to pay attention.

You see how vitally important keywords can be? They shouldn't be generic and ignored! They work on a lot of levels for you. I only learned this very recently so I'm still updating a lot of my books, but I see an instant upswing when I get it right


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Sticking my head in the room to advise the new folk and remind everyone else that the word "troll" is considered a four letter word here--we ask that people not use it. Not only is it name calling, against Forum Decorum, but I've seen it too quickly applied too many times.

Thanks for continuing civilly with the conversation--I know Jana and others reading this appreciate all the good suggestions.

Thanks,

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## ScarlettParrish (Nov 23, 2014)

Hey all,

I've been reading through this thread and there's a lot in it that resonates with me. Yes, I'm Scottish and we're supposed to be tightwads. But really, I hardly have any spare money to spend on promo myself, so...

Free promotion. I'm lazy as balls when it comes to promo. I'm active on Twitter, but I despise those who are all "Buy my book! Buy my book! Buy my book!" so I don't do that myself. I mention buy links occasionally, but I always feel guilty when I do so.

I've heard it said "The best way to sell your backlist is to maintain your frontlist," and I believe that's true. It's all very well saying you (this is a general you, not anyone specific) can't just sit down and write, but...that's what writers do. The muse doesn't exist. Imagine if I went to my dayjob and said, "I can't see to this paperwork until I feel inspired." I'd get the sack. I think too many authors believe they should enjoy every part of the process. To me, writing is fun, but sometimes it's easier than at other times. Who was it who said "The water don't flow 'til you turn the tap on?" You have to start first, then it gets easier the more you write.

But how dare I say that, right? I've had a long period of not writing, so what would I know? Well...I used to be prolific. Then I was hit by a few things one after the other that meant a looooong period of depression as well as physical illness. I didn't see the point of starting a new book because I wasn't sure I'd be around to finish it.

And now I have to start from the beginning again, because I've lost the momentum I had when I started out.

But still - the best way to sell your backlist is to maintain your frontlist. Writing is free. No-one will ever charge you money for being creative.

Twitter's free. You might not like it, but you need an internet presence. (I'm not on Facebook because I think it's the root of all known evil, but hey...at least I have Twitter and a blog. )

I've spoken to quite a few authors who spend money on promo. The trouble is (and I refer to erotic romance here as that's the genre in which I write) they're mostly preaching to the converted. They advertise on blogs and sites a) where people already know they exist or b) peopled by other authors, rather than other READERS.

Heck, I know one writer who said on a publisher's Yahoo loop that she would barely break even, but she was happy to just have her book out there! I thought, "I'm not happy to just have my book out there. I want to make money at it too, otherwise what's the point?"

I have the advantage of having been published with 4 erotic romance publishers so my name is - or rather was - out there, taking advantage of return readers checking their favourite publishers' back catalogues each week. Wish I'd ridden that wave of publicity properly, but when you're facing potential homelessness, there are more important things than coming up with another M/M novella, you know?

It's all very well asking for advice then saying "Ah, but..." or "See, I can't because..." The bottom line is, books won't write themselves. You can't wait for the muse to appear and drip honey in your ear. I believe it was Stephen King who said, "You have to go out in the streets and drag her home by the hair, then tie her to the desk."

As for me, I'm just attempting to get my name "current" again. And the way I'm going to try to do that is with volume. I'm not going to deliberate "churn it out", but the only way I can deal with my regret over my lack of productivity for the past few years is to do things differently. To write more.

I have a roof over my head, and a part-time job. And I reckon we need to treat writing as our jobs, too. Someone once said to me "If you treat it like a hobby, you get hobby rewards." I also have ongoing health problems that mean I frequently lose the use of one half of my body. Makes it difficult to type if you can barely walk, see or think! The time we do have, however limited, needs to be filled with things that stand a chance of making us money.

I'm mercenary. That's why I'm in this game - to make money. Yog's Law states money flows to the writer. So I'm interested in this thread. Yes, I have a job but I'm only a couple of years out of poverty. My wages go on rent and taxes! I just don't earn enough from writing to justify spending buttloads on promo, and I know it's possible to do it without shelling out a small fortune.

I've seen writers' careers take off and heard them say they did it without paying for the privilege. And I've also heard plenty of authors bemoan being out of pocket because they spend more on promo than they earn from writing.

Which is why I'm keeping an eye on this thread. I want to know what the secret is! Until then, I'll attempt to turn my brain into a conveyor belt. It's just me, Scrivener and KDP.

(Lest anyone wonder how I could have a computer and an internet connection and still plead poverty, the computer is six years old, and the internet connection is essential when it comes to jobhunting; besides, when I was on disability a while back, a generous relative helped me out financially, so...)


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## ElleT (Feb 2, 2014)

Couple of thoughts. These thoughts do NOT address your question on how to market on a zero budget. But I think they bear mentioning. And my heart goes out to your with these efforts you are taking.

I checked out your books. On Amazon and B&N.
Book one of series pubbed 5 years ago. It’s got a decent rank for a book that age. Book two pubbled couple of months ago.
Say I’m a reader. Say I fall in love with your writing on book one. Then I wait five years to get book two. That doesn’t help you, I think. 
I mention this from the perspective of a fan. 

What can you do about it? I’d say limit influences that do not include typing into a work in progress – Kboards, for example. (Bottom line. Write as much as you can, publish as often as possible. If you are already doing this. Retracted.)

Book one on Amazon looked like it was 0.99. ON B&N seems I saw it for 2.99. Was wondering if you wanted to look into that discrepancy.
On the topic of blurbs. 
Hell, change them once a week if you want to. Or more often. See which ones work best. It's easy on AC.

Another thought. If you have no traction at the other bookseller sites, I’d consider going with KU. My question would be, what you have to lose at this point, other than three months. And if you have no traction, then really, no loss. 
Wow. This was a lot of typing. I hope it does not hurt your feelings. It’s certainly not meant as an attack. I would love to see you succeed. The romantic in me loves success stories.
Also, if moral constraints to do not affect your writing, I’d consider the advice Hoop gave. It’s solid.
Whew. Long post.


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## C Love (Nov 22, 2014)

Jana, I believe you understood exactly what I meant.  ((hug)) Forgive me for having added to all this overwhelming stuff, I just felt like I had to. You do remind me a great deal of my mother, maybe that's why. Wish I could help with the free promo question, but others here know more than I. I will still buy your book. Thanks for starting this thread.



ScarlettParrish said:


> The muse doesn't exist. Imagine if I went to my dayjob and said, "I can't see to this paperwork until I feel inspired."


I respectfully disagree. At least, this is a bad example. For me it has nothing to do with inspiration, but to be able to "zone out" which just will not work if my mind is full with other things. My dayjob needs other skills. If I want to write for a living, I need to find ways to get into that zone - drag the poor muse by the hair. Not everybody wishes to write for a living. There is a different motivation to that than the fear of getting sacked. But I do agree, writing gets easier the more often it is done.


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## Hoop (Nov 22, 2014)

Gary Anderson said:


> That is a trollish statement. I will give you a break since you are new here, but on forums I navigate, that is troll talk. Obviously some people like my daughter in law are perplexed that people are poor. She once said one time, that people in Africa can do something about being poor. Well, maybe a few. But she has no clue, as you have no clue.


Don't assume (there's that word) that someone is new based on their post count.
Many people in the forums have deleted all of their past posts. Some have made new accounts. I've done both.
Reasons?
1. Say something someone doesn't like (or simply write a post telling others something that succeeded for you and a step-by-step on how they can repeat it), and they go on a hissy fit on Amazon slamming your books with 1-star reviews and horrible statements because they either don't like you or think you're bragging and need to be removed from your high horse.
2. There is at least one forum member who seems very unstable, and has just recently gone onto other outlets writing extremely slanderous and damaging lies about forum members here, as well as attempting to google bomb these forum members and their projects with nasty SEO phrases.

Other members have other reasons; those are mine - the point is, don't ever start mounting your own high horse based on someone else's post count.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Jana, I'm a caretaker for an adult and have a few pain issues of my own (nothing compared to yours), so I get what you're saying about having a hard time writing. I used to write fanfic as well. And here's a secret. It took me twenty YEARS to get my first book finalized and published. So I totally get it. 

Something you might consider is just to give yourself a very small world goal each day. Maybe just 100 words. Maybe 300. When I started to get back into writing, at first all I could manage was 250 words a day. Not much, but you think about it, 250 words x 5 days a week (I can't write on weekends) = 1,250 words a week. Times that by 50 weeks (take two weeks off for vacation or sick time) and you get 62,500. That's at least half a novel even if you're writing 120k epic fantasy. 

And then once I started doing that, I found the 250 easier and easier to write. 250 words became 300. Then 400 a day. 

Now, two years later, I'm writing between 800 and 1200 words a day. 

But don't worry about that "later" part. Just try to write a little each day. It's like a muscle, and the more you use it, the easier it gets.


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## Douglas Milewski (Jul 4, 2014)

300 days of writing x 100 words = 30,000 words. That's one book every two years.

I wake up early, early (but only on Mon-Fri) and write for an hour because that's my only reliable time and even that's not been reliable this year. I've written two novellas, a novel, and significant chunks of three other novels this year. I'd say 150k words. I'm looking at three novels next year if my editor can keep up. 

My point is that consistent writing gets your more than you think.


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## VictoriaScribens (Sep 11, 2014)

You might want to look at this thread, which includes some lists of free/very cheap promotional sites. Many of them want free books, but some of them will accept $0.99 ones, because I used them when I had a sale earlier this fall.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,198654.msg2799943.html#msg2799943


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## AbbyBabble (Mar 16, 2013)

I've been listening to the Rocking Self-Publishing Podcast, and I thought I'd link to this relevant episode. It's about an indie author who launched his career while homeless, with zero budget.


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## Lucky Luke (Nov 25, 2014)

AbbyBabble said:


> I've been listening to the Rocking Self-Publishing Podcast, and I thought I'd link to this relevant episode. It's about an indie author who launched his career while homeless, with zero budget.


Thanks, this is a great site.


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## SkyScribe (Aug 18, 2014)

judygoodwin said:


> Jana, I'm a caretaker for an adult and have a few pain issues of my own (nothing compared to yours), so I get what you're saying about having a hard time writing. I used to write fanfic as well. And here's a secret. It took me twenty YEARS to get my first book finalized and published. So I totally get it.
> 
> Something you might consider is just to give yourself a very small world goal each day. Maybe just 100 words. Maybe 300. When I started to get back into writing, at first all I could manage was 250 words a day. Not much, but you think about it, 250 words x 5 days a week (I can't write on weekends) = 1,250 words a week. Times that by 50 weeks (take two weeks off for vacation or sick time) and you get 62,500. That's at least half a novel even if you're writing 120k epic fantasy.
> 
> ...


Word goals are something that I would strongly suggest as well. As soon as you're able to start reliably producing work, no matter the rate, you can begin to anticipate the number of releases and develop strategies about cross promotions and series. A word count per day can be a great stepping stone to getting a book finished.


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## VMJaskiernia (Jan 7, 2014)

I haven't read through the whole thread, but do you have a blog? That might interest people into following you and your work.

Also, I bought a copy of Mengliad  Sounds awesome!


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## Douglas E Wright (Mar 11, 2011)

AbbyBabble said:


> I've been listening to the Rocking Self-Publishing Podcast, and I thought I'd link to this relevant episode. It's about an indie author who launched his career while homeless, with zero budget.


I put together a new website from the tutorials on this site. Anyone wanting to do a cheap site, this is the place. He has 11 videos around ten minutes apiece. I lost my website this year because I couldn't afford it for the first time since 2002. I paid for another site last year figuring on selling eBay, but never did. So, all I had to do was pay for the domain and tack it onto the eBay site. That will come due in a couple months, hopefully I will be able to afford the yearly fee by then. Thanks for placing the link Abbey! Oh yeah, I listened to the podcast, it was great too.


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