# Mailchimp - must I lose my privacy?



## Rob Lopez (Jun 19, 2012)

I signed up to Mailchimp to create a mailing list for prospective readers, and it appears I must (according to anti-spam law) have my name and address on the email that they will be sent.

Not sure I want to give my address out like that.

Anyone else in two minds about this, and how did you solve it?


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## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

I've added: "Get P.O. Box or equivalent" to my to-do list. Some people have suggested using a work address, but that won't work for me, although it might for some people.

I haven't signed up with them yet--does it have to be your real name?


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## davidhaynes (Sep 30, 2012)

Rob, I was also in two minds about this. In the end I elected not to post my private details and added my email to that box plus and the name of my website. I do not see the necessity to post my home address and as I will only be sending emails to those who have signed up about my new releases I think this is okay.  

I think if you intend to bombard people with junk then it becomes applicable, otherwise I would put something in those boxes relating to your webpage etc.


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## Lorecee (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't use my home address either. The CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 requires a return address, so all of the email service providers require it too (Mailchimp, Aweber, iContact, etc.).

When the law was first passed, it was very strict and even prohibited the use of PO box addresses, but it was amended later to allow them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003

So you have a couple of options:
1. Get a USPS post office box, or private mail drop provider PO box with a company like Postal Express. I pay $40 annually for my USPS box and use it to fill out all kinds of online forms that require an address so my home address stays off the internet. I even keep a credit card with my PO box as the billing address, which I use for online purchases.
2. If you don't want your hometown to appear in the return address line, you can pay for a mailbox forwarding service. It's legal - they act as a PO box and receive your mail for you so your email service provider doesn't get a "return to sender" notice when they send out their verification letters (which they do). About $15 a month.
http://www.mailboxforwarding.com/address.php

All this might seem like cloak and dagger, but I'm fiercely protective of my privacy, especially online.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Check to see if your webhosting supports mailing lists. I use dreamhost, and it's included in the package I pay for each year.


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## Gina Black (Mar 15, 2011)

I do the P.O Box thing and it's totally worth it. All my domain names (I hoard, I admit it) use it too.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I use my company name and a PO box for everything rather than pay for privacy as those add up if you have a lot of domains, and I do. A PO Box is one cost rather than proliferating across a couple dozen domains, plus it is useful for many other things.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

As has been noted, it's required by federal law. If you want people to trust you with their email address, there is a bit of give and take. Would you do business with a company that hides? USPS P.O. Boxes are not too expensive, just get the smallest box they offer. That way you don't have to use your personal address.


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

I just got a PO Box this past weekend because of this law. $15 bucks every three months.


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## Rob Lopez (Jun 19, 2012)

Good advice. Thanks everyone, I'll look into it.

@ElisaBlaisdell:You don't have to use your real name, only a real address. So pen-names (or 'company' names) are fine.


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## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

Rob Lopez said:


> Good advice. Thanks everyone, I'll look into it.
> 
> @ElisaBlaisdell:You don't have to use your real name, only a real address. So pen-names (or 'company' names) are fine.


Thank you. Good luck!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Rob Lopez said:


> I signed up to Mailchimp to create a mailing list for prospective readers, and it appears I must (according to anti-spam law) have my name and address on the email that they will be sent.
> 
> Not sure I want to give my address out like that.
> 
> Anyone else in two minds about this, and how did you solve it?


Yes, you must. It is a requirement of new federal anti-spam laws that mailing list operators include their address with every email. It is the same on Mailchimp and every other mailing list tool out there.

If it worries you, get a PO box (they're cheap), or use an address where you could plausibly be found but is not your actual residence (i.e. your work address if you have a day job.)


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## Lorecee (Apr 8, 2013)

> For those who are thinking about getting a PO box, I would highly recommend getting a private box instead, from companies such as UPS or any of the several others. They cost more, but offer several advantages.


Definitely an alternative. Only down side is they cost a bit more than USPS, and if the franchise goes out of business, they won't forward your mail. Only reason I bring it up is because it happened to me, and I had to really scramble to get my addresses changed.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

cdstephens said:


> For those who are thinking about getting a PO box, I would highly recommend getting a private box instead, from companies such as UPS or any of the several others. They cost more, but offer several advantages.
> 
> You can use it as a business address by putting a # in front of your box number. You can't legally put Suite or anything similar, but you are allowed to use # instead of Box.
> 
> ...


You can do the same thing now with USPS PO Box.

Instead of

John Doe
PO Box 500
City, CA 94110

You can use:

John Doe
100 Main Street #500
City, CA 94110

The street address being the street of address of the postal office where you have your PO Box. You can get that by looking it up online at USPS.com or ask the postal employee when you're at the post office.

It does work, I tested it because I was skeptical and I received it without any issues. It's not frowned upon by the USPS either. They made this okay in order to compete against Private Mail Box places like the UPS Store. And the price of a USPS is way cheaper than the private ones.


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## penrefe (Nov 30, 2011)

I might be looking in the wrong place, but are these prices right for a UK PO Box?!

http://www.royalmail.com/parcel-despatch-low/uk-delivery/po-box

~£25/month seems a bit less viable than $14/year

I use my work address at present, and I think if those are my options, I'll stick with that for now!


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## Jeroen Steenbeeke (Feb 3, 2012)

This is one of the primary reasons why I decided to write my own mailing list tools rather than stick with one of the big players. I'm not subject to US laws (and my local laws lack the requirement) so I sure as hell am not going to put my address in my e-mails.


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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

Not that I'm thinking of doing this, but...

What is to stop you using a totally fictitious address? Or giving one that you know does not exist -eg, my small street has 16 houses. Will anyone check if I say my address is 132 Nowhere Street?


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

PO Boxes can vary a lot in price in the US, since you're not actually going to be using the box for anything, go to the website and you can see who within X miles of you has boxes available an for what price.


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Federal laws schmederal laws...

I'm not handing over my home address to internet nutters. 

My pseudonym is a wholly created persona - why not their mailing address too?


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

Jeroen Steenbeeke said:


> This is one of the primary reasons why I decided to write my own mailing list tools rather than stick with one of the big players. I'm not subject to US laws (and my local laws lack the requirement) so I sure as hell am not going to put my address in my e-mails.


You still need to adhere to the federal laws that require a mailing address on all mass emails. It doesn't matter if it is through your own tools or through a company.


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## Jeroen Steenbeeke (Feb 3, 2012)

nightfire said:


> You still need to adhere to the federal laws that require a mailing address on all mass emails. It doesn't matter if it is through your own tools or through a company.


You are entirely correct.

However, I'm not subject to US Federal Laws, since I live in the Netherlands (in Europe), so it simply doesn't apply to me.


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

penrefe said:


> I might be looking in the wrong place, but are these prices right for a UK PO Box?!
> 
> http://www.royalmail.com/parcel-despatch-low/uk-delivery/po-box
> 
> ...


I found these prices too. I also discovered that people can still request for the addressee of the PO Box holder, so I decided not to bother hiding!


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Jeroen Steenbeeke said:


> You are entirely correct.
> 
> However, I'm not subject to US Federal Laws, since I live in the Netherlands (in Europe), so it simply doesn't apply to me.


If you're mailing to people in the United State they do. If I chose to do business with people in the Netherlands, I can't violate Netherlands laws just because I live in the United States. Granted, I doubt the FBI will knock your door down for violating SPAM Federal Laws, so you're probably fine breaking the law. I would bet the Netherlands the EU have similar anti-Spam laws too, so you might want to double check that.

And if you're mailing solo, your best using a dedicated server you setup yourself. Any hosting/ISP company that you use to send those emails out will shut you down in an instant if you start getting Spam complaints. It doesn't take that many complaints to get dinged.

Just a heads up is all.


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## Jeroen Steenbeeke (Feb 3, 2012)

Alan Petersen said:


> If you're mailing to people in the United State they do. If I chose to do business with people in the Netherlands, I can't violate Netherlands laws just because I live in the United States. Granted, I doubt the FBI will knock your door down for violating SPAM Federal Laws, so you're probably fine breaking the law.


By that reasoning I am subject to the sum of all laws of all countries of all people who subscribe to my mailing list. That could get really interesting (read: a big headache) to figure out, so it's easier (and in this case: better for my privacy) to stick to local laws.

Perhaps my use of the word "subject" was wrong - I should have said "out of reach", and I very much doubt that if I ever go to the US they'll arrest me for neglecting to include a postal address in an e-mail that gets sent once a month (at most) to less than fifty subscribers.



Alan Petersen said:


> I would bet the Netherlands the EU have similar anti-Spam laws too, so you might want to double check that.


I did my homework  They don't require a postal address. They're also quite clear on other stuff such as requiring mails to be opt-in (which CAN-SPAM lacks, by the way), mandatory unsubscribe links and other perfectly sane requirements.



Alan Petersen said:


> And if you're mailing solo, your best using a dedicated server you setup yourself. Any hosting/ISP company that you use to send those emails out will shut you down in an instant if you start getting Spam complaints. It doesn't take that many complaints to get dinged.
> 
> Just a heads up is all.


A good warning, but unnecessary in my case. My software has a limit of 20 mails per hour, and doesn't use my ISP's mail server.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

Jeroen Steenbeeke said:


> By that reasoning I am subject to the sum of all laws of all countries of all people who subscribe to my mailing list. That could get really interesting (read: a big headache) to figure out, so it's easier (and in this case: better for my privacy) to stick to local laws.


You actually are subject to the laws of all countries of people who subscribe to your mailing list. As are we. The privacy laws in the EU are going to affect all of us in the US that do business with people in the EU. Sticking your head in the sand and claiming ignorance won't save you if someone decides to take you (or anyone else) to task for not providing what it required.


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## Dormouse (Nov 10, 2012)

Alan Petersen said:


> If you're mailing to people in the United State they do. If I chose to do business with people in the Netherlands, I can't violate Netherlands laws just because I live in the United States. Granted, I doubt the FBI will knock your door down for violating SPAM Federal Laws, so you're probably fine breaking the law. I would bet the Netherlands the EU have similar anti-Spam laws too, so you might want to double check that.


Not true. You have to adhere to the laws of your own country and to existing international agreements. If there's an international agreement between lets say the US and the Netherlands that every mailing-list should contain an address then you would have to adhere to that. But local law is local and of no concern to someone doing business from another country.

The FBI also has no jurisdiction in a European country just like any European law-enforcement agency has no jurisdiction in the US. I'm trying to imagine the reactions when the FBI contacts the French police to prosecute someone who's living in France and never has been to the US because that person broke US law while living and working in France... Yeah, no. Might wok for a movie but not in reality.

As far as I know there are no EU wide anti-spam regulations so far, only some directives and even then, every EU-country would do their own version of that or not. The anti-spam laws in the EU right now are still a matter of each country: for example in Germany all business-communition has to include a full address (not a P.O. Box but an actual, physical address), the name of the person responsible (again a real person, not a pseudonym) and the tax number of the business. That also includes the legal imprint on websites and in books. Yet the same rules don't apply to businesses in France, because the French law is different. Nor do they apply to US businesses because again US law is different. They don't even apply to international businesses as long as they aren't located in Germany even when they have a German translation of their website and do business in Germany.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

humblenations said:


> I don't use mail chimp. I just BCC from my gmail. I don't like the thought of 1. having mailchimps name on the emails. 2. Mail Chimp having my contacts.


You should worry a lot more about Google and Gmail having your contacts than Mailchimp.


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

I was just looking in to mailchimp and saw that they require you to give up your physical address and was very surprised about that.  No way I'd give out my home address for sure and wouldn't want the conflict with work.  Guess I'll have to get a PO Box at some point if I want to create a mailing list.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I use a virtual mailing address.  If I didn't, then I'd use a UPS box.  If you just google virtual mailing address, you'll come up with plenty of companies that offer that service, at a wide range of prices.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

D.L. Sharp said:


> I was just looking in to mailchimp and saw that they require you to give up your physical address and was very surprised about that. No way I'd give out my home address for sure and wouldn't want the conflict with work. Guess I'll have to get a PO Box at some point if I want to create a mailing list.


It's not Mail Chimp, it's the FTC. I don't use Mail Chimp, I use Aweber and same thing, I need to provide an address. It's the law (in the United States).

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus61-can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business



> Tell recipients where you're located. Your message must include your valid physical postal address. This can be your current street address, a post office box you've registered with the U.S. Postal Service, or a private mailbox you've registered with a commercial mail receiving agency established under Postal Service regulations.


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

Alan Petersen said:


> It's not Mail Chimp, it's the FTC. I don't use Mail Chimp, I use Aweber and same thing, I need to provide an address. It's the law (in the United States).
> 
> http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus61-can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business


Yeah I got that from the other posts and the bit of research I did. That's why I came to the conclusion that I guess I'll end up with a PO Box at some point. And it's not a huge deal they are fairly cheap, just another thing I'll add to the cost of SPing.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

What if you just put your website address in the 'address' field?


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

RM Prioleau said:


> What if you just put your website address in the 'address' field?


Someone either here or elsewhere also replied that they put their email address in that field. However that or putting your website their goes entirely against the point. The request for a physical address is something mandated by law. i can say i was in the midst of the process and actually put in a completely made up address as i do on most sites that want my information, but then I realized that mailchimp intended to display this information which made me pause and do some reading.

And not that I'm encouraging anyone to do something illegal but how would any service such as this know if you put in a fake address? As I said above I was well into the process with fake information before I canceled everything. Also from what I was reading it is illegal do disguise the name of the sender. So would that mean anyone using a pen name would need to reveal their real name to use a service such as this?


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

Gina Black said:


> I do the P.O Box thing and it's totally worth it. All my domain names (I hoard, I admit it) use it too.


You can also hide your Whois listing for your domain. Usually a small fee involved with your provider. Not sure if most folks know that, but if you have a personal domain it's not hard for those who know to find you.

Well, it's hard not to be discovered by someone who's determined enough no matter what you do. Still, best to make things as difficult as reasonably possible.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

D.L. Sharp said:


> Someone either here or elsewhere also replied that they put their email address in that field. However that or putting your website their goes entirely against the point. The request for a physical address is something mandated by law. i can say i was in the midst of the process and actually put in a completely made up address as i do on most sites that want my information, but then I realized that mailchimp intended to display this information which made me pause and do some reading.
> 
> And not that I'm encouraging anyone to do something illegal but how would any service such as this know if you put in a fake address? As I said above I was well into the process with fake information before I canceled everything. Also from what I was reading it is illegal do disguise the name of the sender. So would that mean anyone using a pen name would need to reveal their real name to use a service such as this?


In the United States, you can get a P.O. Box for less than $100 per year, and you can write off as a business expense without having to resort to shoddy practices. Will you get caught using a fake address? Probably not, but the legal work-around to not using your home address is simple and cheap. You can even even pay quarterly or bi-yearly so for around $30 you walk away with a key to your P.O. Box and now you can use that as your business address for your books (front matter), mail chimp, etc.

I can understand for folks in other countries were PO boxes are very expensive, but in this country,it's easy and cheap.


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

Lyndawrites said:


> Not that I'm thinking of doing this, but...
> 
> What is to stop you using a totally fictitious address? Or giving one that you know does not exist -eg, my small street has 16 houses. Will anyone check if I say my address is 132 Nowhere Street?


Not that I've done this, but if I had, I could report that it works. You know, hypothetically.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2013)

As an aside, the "name" field does not have to be a person. It just needs to be a legitimate entity. I get emails from Kellogg's that say they are from Kellogg's, not Joe Jordan the IT guy who handles the list. 

I DO use my real address, but that is because I run my business from my home and therefore I use my home address. I could get a PO box, but the Post Office is not conveniently located to me and I don't get enough physical mail to make it an issue. 

If you have a DBA, you can use that. And if you publish under multiple pen names, it may be adviseable for you to get a DBA as an umbrella for all of your pen names. 

Insofar as privacy, my street address is already a matter of public record. I own my home. There are public tax records and a registered deed. If someone wants to find me, it wouldn't take much. Putting my address in that field is not a big deal. If you have an ISBN registered in your name, chances are you used your home address during the registration. Those are a matter of public record.


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

I love https://www.mailboxforwarding.com

I can check what's come in from any computer, I can use their fax number for free and it allows me to have unlimited names that can receive mail. (Some services make you pay if you want to receive mail from more than 2 names). They will also deposit checks for you remotely if you want. It's a good option for the price and they give you a street address.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

valeriec80 said:


> Check to see if your webhosting supports mailing lists. I use dreamhost, and it's included in the package I pay for each year.


thank you for reminding me of this valerie. I've been with DH for a decade now and have always noticed this on the CP but never had a reason to investigate until now.

Also, for the WhoIs, if you have DH they'll be your contact and it costs nothing (other than hosting via Dreamhost). If they get an email or contacted by a 'legit' party, they'll forward it to you (I've received offers to sell my domain this way more than a few times...apparently there's a video game company or two out there that REALLY wants the 'angrygames.com' domain).



> You should worry a lot more about Google and Gmail having your contacts than Mailchimp.


NSA SLAM!

ugh, there's a knock at my door. I hope it isn't van stuffed with NSA stormtroopers...


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Privacy is still a thing? Where?

If you're an American, your best bet for concealing your address is probably to move at least every few months, like I do (to my chagrin). I'm afraid there aren't many other options for people who use, like, phones. And computers. And stuff.

It's weird that threads/sentiments like these keep popping up. I didn't think anybody believed in the existence of personal privacy anymore.


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## 71089 (Jul 12, 2013)

Tbh, I just gave up the address of someone else I know, lol. Whoever would send you snailmail because of some mailinglist anyway?


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## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

What is the objection to readers knowing one's address? What bad stuff do you all envisage happening if they do? 

My feeling is, unless you are JKR, nobody is that interested.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

There are a lot of weird/unbalanced/psychotic/strange/deviant/annoying people in the world...


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## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

AngryGames said:


> There are a lot of weird/unbalanced/psychotic/strange/deviant/annoying people in the world...


...and paranoid ones...


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> There are a lot of weird/unbalanced/psychotic/strange/deviant/annoying people in the world...


Yes, there are unbalanced people in the world. I have had the misfortune of having to deal with several (to the point of getting a restraining order). But let's be clear. Your address is ALREADY accessible to a determined person. If you own your home, your address is a matter of public record. If you vote, your address is on the voter rolls. If you have a listed phone number, I can find you in a phone book. The guy who called my house threatening me didn't get my information from my mailing list. He got it through a Google search.

If nobody ever reports you for spam, then it won't matter what address you put in that field. If someone decides to report you (which is FAR more likely that a stalker showing up at your door) the FCC will send you a letter requesting additional information. Usually, they will want to see that you are running your mailing list honestly. So you provide them with your info (which in this case, would be that you use an opt-in service like mailchimp) and you can show that the person who reported you actually opted in to your list. The FCC says "OK, nevermind" and they leave you alone.
BUT, if you put a fake address in there, and the FCC sends that letter and it gets bounced back with a bad address, or they learn you used someone else's address. Guess what? Welcome to a big fine for fraudulent spam practices. And you don't have the high priced lawyers to help you get it reduced.

I have been on the receiving end of government audits and surprise inspections (where I work, we routinely get visits and queries from the FDA and FAA). They are actually quite cool about the whole thing so long as you show good-faith efforts to comply. They only slam you when they think you are trying to perform an end-run around the rules. The people who get the fines aren't the ones acting in good faith who just make a mistake on some paperwork (generally you get 30 days to take corrective action in those cases). But the people who deliberately do things against the rules because they think they won't get caught? Those are the ones the government loves to make an example of.

So whatever address you use, it needs to be a legitimate one that you have legal access to and are willing and able to accept responsibility for.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Lexi Revellian said:


> ...and paranoid ones...


Actually, Lexi, several of us HAVE been cyberstalked or real-life stalked in the past, and let me tell you, it is NOT paranoid to not want to repeat that experience.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

Lyndawrites said:


> Not that I'm thinking of doing this, but...
> 
> What is to stop you using a totally fictitious address? Or giving one that you know does not exist -eg, my small street has 16 houses. Will anyone check if I say my address is 132 Nowhere Street?


When I signed up for MailChimp, I went out and got a PO Box. One of the things about having a real address there is that fans do send you things. I posted a picture of my pen tray and someone asked if they could send me a pen for my collection, and they did and it was lovely.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

It's not that I don't think that there's a value to privacy, it's just that I don't think we can reasonably expect to maintain it anymore. MailChimp wouldn't be high on my list of concerns if I was worried about this sort of thing.

It'd certainly be easier if you weren't in a profession that depends on broad public circulation of your works, as well as constant contact with media and service providers.


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## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

I did it, but we're military so we're always moving. I don't keep any one address for too long, so I didn't see a problem and when I move I don't plan to change it.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2013)

A few years ago I wanted to attend a Romantic Times annual conference in New York.
Since I was already in New York on business, I went to the magazine's office to sign up.
The office turned out to be a bar that Romantic Times used for its mailing address.
The magazine has since become very successful and moved to "real" office address.


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm just going to echo the sentiment that dealing with crazy people isn't a lot of fun. PO Boxes FTW. I've been meaning to sign up with Mailchimp before my next book release, so this is good to know in advance.

You can always google yourself... I do periodically to make sure what's out there is only what I WANT out there. My real name and defunct address was picked up by some other site once--I contacted them and they promptly removed the listing. Of course, any kind of information can always be taken by force... (Or, Why I Write Cyberpunk.   )

I can only dream of fans sending me wicked goodies.


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## Jennifer R P (Oct 19, 2012)

Which is why I don't have a mailing list until I can afford a PO Box. (I know they aren't expensive, but...)

No WAY do fans get my mailing address. Or phone number. Period.


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

Lexi Revellian said:


> What is the objection to readers knowing one's address? What bad stuff do you all envisage happening if they do?
> 
> My feeling is, unless you are JKR, nobody is that interested.


I have extremely curious friends with excellent google skills.


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## henickebooks (Jul 18, 2012)

I didn't like the idea of using my address either so I use the address for my church. I also use that for the return address on Goodreads Giveaways.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Okey Dokey said:


> ...Since I was already in New York on business, I went to the magazine's office to sign up.
> The office turned out to be a bar that Romantic Times used for its mailing address...


I love this story!


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2013)

henickebooks said:


> I didn't like the idea of using my address either so I use the address for my church. I also use that for the return address on Goodreads Giveaways.


Let's hope nobody reports you for spamming and then the FCC goes after your church. 

Unless the church is responsible for the mailing list, this is so illegal. I don't know how many times I can say it. You CANNOT use an address that you are not legally answerable for. Not only do you put the church at risk, you are willfully courting a major fine if you get caught.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

If you're looking for a mailbox, make sure you comparison shop. The same box the USPS offers in my town for $78 for a year is $60 a five-minute drive away. Not to mention UPS stories, Mailbox Etc., etc. 

It's a worthwhile investment for one of the best publicity tools you can have: the mailing list.


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

Been doing a little reading on the matter and I just want to be absolutely clear. Am I correct that I can register the PO Box in my real names as required because I need to present ID but have mail sent to a pen name with the given address without any problem?  Some people have said yes others have said no.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

D.L. Sharp said:


> Been doing a little reading on the matter and I just want to be absolutely clear. Am I correct that I can register the PO Box in my real names as required because I need to present ID but have mail sent to a pen name with the given address without any problem? Some people have said yes others have said no.


To rent a USPS box, you must present two forms of legal ID (such a DL and a passport) with your legal name on them.

They have no problem putting other names on the box that can receive mail (such as pseudonyms).

(I know 'cause I just did this.)


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

Diane Patterson said:


> To rent a USPS box, you must present two forms of legal ID (such a DL and a passport) with your legal name on them.
> 
> They have no problem putting other names on the box that can receive mail (such as pseudonyms).
> 
> (I know 'cause I just did this.)


Thank you. I'll definitely be taking care of this soon.


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## cleablake (Aug 31, 2013)

It's astounding how cheap US PO box options seem to be! Here in Ireland, I think the cheapest option with An Post (Irish Mail) is at least 260EUR a year, which works out to about $350. Yikes. 

Has anyone in Europe found a more affordable option?


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## Greer (Sep 24, 2011)

I just took a look at this...

http://www.virtualpostmail.com

Does anyone know if it's a valid, legal substitute for a PO Box?


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

cleablake said:


> It's astounding how cheap US PO box options seem to be! Here in Ireland, I think the cheapest option with An Post (Irish Mail) is at least 260EUR a year, which works out to about $350. Yikes.
> 
> Has anyone in Europe found a more affordable option?


Wow! prices like that would make me really consider my options. The nearest facility to me has it's smallest box marked at $54 a year. And the rest within about 10 miles are $60 a year.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2013)

Shayne said:


> I just took a look at this...
> 
> http://www.virtualpostmail.com
> 
> Does anyone know if it's a valid, legal substitute for a PO Box?


My gut says it would b legal until the FCC came looking for you if you got a bunch of spam reports. Then they would claim you were masking your real identity.

Keep in mind, government regulatory agencies always consider INTENT in these matters (i.e. did you act in good faith?). If you use that address for ALL your business purposes, particularly if you use your real name or a registered DBA with it, then they would probably accept it as your real business address.

If you used it ONLY for the newsletter and continued to use your home address for all other business, they could accuse you of trying to make an end-run around the law and not acting in good faith.

Having been on the receiving end of government audits (FDA and FAA) at my day job and knowing what they look for, if you didn't intend to use that address for more than the mailing list I think you would be opening the door to problems.


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

Shayne said:


> I just took a look at this...
> 
> http://www.virtualpostmail.com
> 
> Does anyone know if it's a valid, legal substitute for a PO Box?


It's expensive once you get past the trial 3 months, and I think I don't want someone else scanning my mail.


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

I just got a P.O. Box on Friday, the 5.5 x 5 size, and it was $64 for the year. If you look at it like personalized advertising that you can send out for the whole year, for every release, special contests or freebies, direct to people who actually want to read your work, then it's not really that heavy of an expense. That's the average cost of an ad or promo that runs once.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Diane Patterson said:


> If you're looking for a mailbox, make sure you comparison shop. The same box the USPS offers in my town for $78 for a year is $60 a five-minute drive away. Not to mention UPS stories, Mailbox Etc., etc.
> 
> It's a worthwhile investment for one of the best publicity tools you can have: the mailing list.


Excellent point. I saved around $50 by selecting a PO box that was about two miles further away from the nearest postal office to my home. I only check once a month, so I figured what the heck. Plus the post office is right across the bay, beautiful view when I go pick up my mail. And there's a Starbucks across the street. 

You can check here (enter mile radius and look at the prices):

https://poboxes.usps.com/poboxonline/search/landingPage.do


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Anyone got any recommendations for a UK PO Box? 

Royal Mail looks a bit pricey...


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I use these people. I don't know if they're any good but they're cheaper than Royal Mail!

http://www.prime-secretarial.co.uk/


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm a bit confused about whether the PO Box has to be in your city to be valid. Can anyone shed any light? Most of the ones I've seen are in the London area (thanks Lydniz btw) and I'm not sure if that's legal.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Well I'm not in London either. As far as I'm concerned it's an address where people can get in touch with me if they want. The company has my real address and ID so it's not like I'm hiding anything.


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## WrittenWordMediaTeam (Oct 23, 2012)

Lorecee said:


> I don't use my home address either. The CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 requires a return address, so all of the email service providers require it too (Mailchimp, Aweber, iContact, etc.).
> 
> When the law was first passed, it was very strict and even prohibited the use of PO box addresses, but it was amended later to allow them.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003
> ...


^^ this. It's the law -- you *have* to have a mailing address on there - it just doesn't have to be where you live.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Great, thanks! I must have missed that post, sorry!

That's good news. The ones in London are quite cheap, whereas I only found one in my city and it was £36 a month!


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

PO box here would cost me 130 euro a year and 38 euro setup cost that is $230 for the first year. I haven't even made that kind of money from book sales...


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## @Suzanna (Mar 14, 2011)

My PO box is $172 per year. I do consider it a necessary business expense. I also use it when registering for copyrights and ISBNs (at least the latter are free here in Canada) because addresses are searchable by the general public in those two databases.


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

For those not wanting to share their I.D, and provided you're not accepting merchandise, try privatebox.co.nz. I just signed up. You get your address straight away, it costs as low as £4.50 ($7.50) per month, and you get 2 months free if you fill out the (very short) survey. Seeing as this is only ever going to be used for non-business purposes and won't receive mail, it should be sufficient for your Mailchimp needs.


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