# Someone FB'd me about *getting on best-seller lists* through paid marketing



## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

Someone FB'd me about *getting on best-seller lists* through paid marketing. Here's the exchange that occurred tonight. Anyone else experience this before? Way beyond anything I can afford. Thought it was interesting enough to share though:

Kerry Jacobson: Hello Joseph, In case you missed it, attached is a screen grab of Black Hull at #4 on Amazon's Movers & Shakers list. Congrats!

Me: Wow, didn't see that--awesome. Thanks for taking the pic 

KJ: It's now #2, nice! Have you ever thought about making a run for the USA Today list? You should. You're closer than you likely know. Let me know if interested. I have helped close to 200 authors make the USA Today, NYT, WSJ and Amazon lists.

Me: How is this done?

KJ: The reporting period is Sunday 12:01 a.m. EST through Sat, 11:59 p.m. EST. We drive the requisite sales needed to hit the list of choice. There are other obstacles we help with such as ensuring sales are reported from all channels to the list and that the minimum number of Amazon reviews are in place. When an author has shown a modicum of success with a bookbub, ERN or Pixel of Ink promotion, we can take them the rest of the way to ensure they have the required elements. I can explain in more detail on a call if you like. There is no charge for a consult.

Me: Before you call, can you ballpark me. Don't want to waste both of our time. Thanks.

KJ: of course. it depends on a few factors, but can range from $2500 to $4500 for our marketing. There will be thousands of sales but at .99 cents, you're looking at about a 1/3 of the sales revenue paid back to you. In some cases our efforts more than pay for our services, in others it simply defrays the cost. The benefit of a concentrated marketing push is not the sales from the impact week, but the long term benefit of tagging all past and future titles with " USA Today Best Selling Author ", or any other list we target.

Me: Thanks for the info. I'm sorry but I will have to pass on your services. I appreciate your taking notice though.

KJ: Best of luck to you with this and future titles. Feel free to ping me anytime, even for some quick marketing advice. You seem well positioned to reach the next level. Have a great 2014!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Interesting. Do they have a website?


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

I guess I cut the conversation off before we got that far. I could probably still ask that though.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

"The minimum number of Amazon reviews are in place?" Umm . . .


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

Yea, that part sounds strange. I thought getting on those lists had only to do with total volume, and nothing to do with review count.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Well, major congrats on your successful promo, in any case. Good job!


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## ScriptLand (Feb 9, 2013)

I did a quick bit of Googling. If it's this person: https://twitter.com/bookgenie, looks like you made the right decision!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Joseph Turkot said:


> Yea, that part sounds strange. I thought getting on those lists had only to do with total volume, and nothing to do with review count.


As far as I know, reviews don't factor into any bestseller lists at present. I think she was referring to getting enough reviews in place to qualify for a BookBub run.

However, "ensuring minimum reviews on Amazon" sounds suspiciously like paying for reviews. Hmmmm.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Congrats on being important enough to start attracting people of dubious repute.

Gawd, this smells like a rat. Thousands of dollars? How desperate do these people think we are?


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm a little surprised anyone would use this person's services.  After all, if you've built up your fan base to the point where your titles get near the top 100, you have a good chance of hitting it with your next book through honest organic growth of your fan base.  You shouldn't need to hire popularity.


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## Tony Bertauski (May 18, 2012)

Joe, I got the same rap after a Bookbub promo. He caught my book on the Movers and Shakers list and contacted me through FB. I dropped the conversation pretty quick. It sounded like he had a way to game the system.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Or just a quick way to relieve authors of their money.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

While I don't know of this person or service, I would like to believe legitimate marketing services like this exist.

We've all read the posts about "book bombs" and having the wherewithal to coordinate a wide reaching net of simultaneous advertisements and promotions. I've long searched/tried to develop this capability. While the average indie might pull it off with four or five outlets/ads/promotions, think about the honest, legit results you could get if 20-30 advertisements/promos all hit at the same time.

$4500 would be a bargain if it was all proper, aboveboard and well managed.

I'm sure the big houses can pull off something similar to this for their top tier, if necessary. They have the history, relationships and savvy. 

I'd write a check tomorrow if I believed it could be accomplished by an outside firm.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> $4500 would be a bargain if it was all proper, aboveboard and well managed.


And affordable, with 9 of us bundling and splitting the cost.


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## Zoe York (May 12, 2013)

Yeah, I don't think Facebook is the appropriate forum to solicit new business, but that quote doesn't give me pause for a well organized, concentrated marketing campaign. 

Of course, I'm not convinced said marketing campaign would pay off, or have any reason to think that this random person could actually deliver on the promise.


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

> Joe, I got the same rap after a Bookbub promo. He caught my book on the Movers and Shakers list and contacted me through FB. I dropped the conversation pretty quick. It sounded like he had a way to game the system.


Thanks Tony. My main deterrent was the astronomical cost. Otherwise I would have at least sought more information. No point for me with costs like that.



> While I don't know of this person or service, I would like to believe legitimate marketing services like this exist.
> 
> We've all read the posts about "book bombs" and having the wherewithal to coordinate a wide reaching net of simultaneous advertisements and promotions. I've long searched/tried to develop this capability. While the average indie might pull it off with four or five outlets/ads/promotions, think about the honest, legit results you could get if 20-30 advertisements/promos all hit at the same time.
> 
> ...


It makes me wonder--he said he's helped 200 other authors make the lists. I wonder if he'd divulge their names so their experience might be queried.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

While I could give a crap about having NY Times or USA Today Bestseller on my books, and know quite a few who have hit the lists and seen, well, pretty much zero additional lift on their titles from putting that on their books or email or whatnot, it does raise a question of who she/he has done it for that are verifiable. As Joe says, if it's legit, it might be worth the bragging rights. Although, as with all marketing and PR, I tend to be pragmatic, i.e. show me the financial benefit.

My personal opinion is that as more and more authors hit the lists from being in bundles, which is fine, the cachet to the average reader diminishes. So in the end, we'll probably be in a world where there are 100K authors claiming the NY Times and/or USA Today bestseller thing, with readers responding with a yawn.

I believe there's no shortcut to building an audience through writing good books that resonate with them. And the average person probably doesn't buy a book simply by virtue of some possibly bogus claim. For instance, I could claim to be a bestseller on countless lists, but what does it actually mean? It's what hits the bank that matters. The rest is all sound, fury and ego.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

blakebooks said:


> My personal opinion is that as more and more authors hit the lists from being in bundles, which is fine, the cachet to the average reader diminishes. So in the end, we'll probably be in a world where there are 100K authors claiming the NY Times and/or USA Today bestseller thing, with readers responding with a yawn.


We should do a KB bundle with 5,000+ authors in a single boxset. Set the price to 99 cents.

The delivery fee might bankrupt us, be maybe we could all be NYT Bestsellers!


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I could get you on that list for $4500 as well.

It wouldn't be worth it, though. Everybody and their dog and cat will be a "bestseller" in 2014, and I don't think enough readers are swayed by such things for it to ever be worth $4500.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> We should do a KB bundle with 5,000+ authors in a single boxset. Set the price to 99 cents.
> 
> The delivery fee might bankrupt us, be maybe we could all be NYT Bestsellers!


Amazon only allows 10 authors to be listed in the author fields. ;-)

Hence, the boxed sets top out at 10 authors, usually.


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

What about a boxed set of box sets?


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

What about a cube set? Speaking of Cube, that's one freaky movie.


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## Tony Bertauski (May 18, 2012)

5000 author, 500,000 page collaboration.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> We should do a KB bundle with 5,000+ authors in a single boxset. Set the price to 99 cents.
> 
> The delivery fee might bankrupt us, be maybe we could all be NYT Bestsellers!


Could you imagine trying to format it, though?


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

blakebooks said:


> While I could give a crap about having NY Times or USA Today Bestseller on my books, and know quite a few who have hit the lists and seen, well, pretty much zero additional lift on their titles from putting that on their books or email or whatnot, it does raise a question of who she/he has done it for that are verifiable. As Joe says, if it's legit, it might be worth the bragging rights. Although, as with all marketing and PR, I tend to be pragmatic, i.e. show me the financial benefit.
> 
> My personal opinion is that as more and more authors hit the lists from being in bundles, which is fine, the cachet to the average reader diminishes. So in the end, we'll probably be in a world where there are 100K authors claiming the NY Times and/or USA Today bestseller thing, with readers responding with a yawn.
> 
> I believe there's no shortcut to building an audience through writing good books that resonate with them. And the average person probably doesn't buy a book simply by virtue of some possibly bogus claim. For instance, I could claim to be a bestseller on countless lists, but what does it actually mean? It's what hits the bank that matters. The rest is all sound, fury and ego.


This.

I used to *day dream* of being a NYT Bestseller. You know, like dreaming of getting an agent that "gets you" and the dream of a "bidding war" happening for publishing rights.

Then I met a NYT Bestseller and right now I'm making more than he is on his book.  I actually made more in the last two months than he made all year in sales. If you split those 99 cent sales five ways, you can gain a title, but readers are smart and they only come back if they really like the writing.

The title of NYT Bestseller doesn't hold the same light any more when it can be manipulated so easily. Now when I see it, I'm skeptical if it was great writing or sales manipulation. I'd be more interested if a book stayed on the list for several weeks (like the top ten). It's more important to me to present new and better books that stick around for a while rather than a quick flash sale. But whatever works for people. If I thought it would lead to more sales, I'd be on it. I don't know. My readers don't seem to care. They just want the next book.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> We should do a KB bundle with 5,000+ authors in a single boxset. Set the price to 99 cents.
> 
> The delivery fee might bankrupt us, be maybe we could all be NYT Bestsellers!


Ha. That would be quite hilarious. And awesome. I wonder if there is a file size limit for that sort of thing (disregarding the ten author cap).


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for the snort of laughter. Heehee. 5000+ authors box set for 99cts. I can see the 3-D book cover! 

If I have $4500 to give away, I would just give 99ct to 4500 people to buy the book the first few days of week . I'd even get 1/3 back! Hey....


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

I suspect that if this guy doesn't have a public website and can't point to a list of satisfied customers that we can check and verify... then there's probably something shady going on - either in the method used to get on those bestseller lists, or that he is talking out of his rear.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> Congrats on being important enough to start attracting people of dubious repute.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Joseph Turkot said:


> It makes me wonder--he said he's helped 200 other authors make the lists. I wonder if he'd divulge their names so their experience might be queried.


Asking for references is never taboo... unless its a bordello... or so I've heard.


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

DDark said:


> The lists have never been about great writing. They're about which books are top sellers. It's not an easy feat to achieve or else everyone would hit them.


There are some who are able to manipulate them, thus the string of 99 cent sales of a set of multi-author ebooks and then everyone on that list gets the title. And why this guy we were talking about initially is able to 'sell' a package to hit those bestselling lists.

And why I don't give the titles much thought any more and don't strive to achieve them. To me, the title alone doesn't mean anything. And if someone says, "I was number one on USA Today for three months", then I might be interested. There's sustainability there.

I'm not saying some top sellers didn't work their butts off and wrote well and (in my opinion) earned their titles through being popular with fans. I'm saying that so many now are able to achieve the titles through flash sales that it renders the meaning of it to be somewhat different. A bestseller implies a lot of people heard good things about the book or was a big fan of the author and thus worthy of attention. It's what I thought, too. Now that it can/and has been manipulated (outside of conspiracy theories), to me as a reader, I have to work harder and it requires further investigation as to how it was achieved and further research into the writing if it's something I'm interested in reading.

And it isn't to say any of those packaged authors aren't good writers. I did a package, too, in order to gain more readers. And I'm not trying to mock anyone with the title. But there's earning it through direct sales of your fans or writing that caught on with word of mouth (whether warranted for great writing or not), and then there's finding the loophole and using it.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

Joseph Turkot said:


> It makes me wonder--he said he's helped 200 other authors make the lists. I wonder if he'd divulge their names so their experience might be queried.


If they're legit they will.


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

> But KBers I think have an advantage here in tapping into the resources on this board for ways to boost sales. This is the real goldmine.


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

DDark said:


> There are quite a number of boxed sets out there (many from heavy-hitters who weren't able to make it a bestseller) and there is absolutely no guarantee that by being in one, you'll even get close to the top 100, let alone get high enough (and stay long enough) to hit a list. This isn't manipulation any more than an author selling their own collection, or discounting their $25 book to $4. This discussion was beat to death on another thread.


No worries.  I get your reference in quality. I think we're hitting the same pipe, just at different angles. It's what I was trying to say was I was agreeing with you. The NYT Bestseller list has been manipulated a lot way before there were ebooks. By manipulate (probably sounds like a harsher word than I mean it), it can be a matter of just hitting the right market at the right time with the right advertising, and as you've said, doesn't really reference quality at all. Not easy, but those who knew back then and saw those potentials and manipulated loopholes that they saw hanging open somewhat changed the meaning for me of what a NYT Bestseller was as a reader.

That's what I was trying to say. As a reader, when I learned how it could be a loophole or fluke and the 'stigma' that the titles became lost to me so I didn't really pay attention to any more. I just looked at the writing and what people were talking about with the books. When I hear the writer earned it as part of a spectacular flash of advertising in a sales package, only hit it for one week and then was back to the grindstone later, that resonated with me about how, if I were to get the title, how I preferred to earn it.

But there has been a slew of packages that did hit the sales lists in such a way and thus all authors got the title. The right timing/advertising has worked for a number of these packaged authors, and why a lot of authors wanted to try to use it to see if it worked for them. It's another tool that could work if used correctly, but doesn't always pan out for everyone. And why this guy can play on the 'rumor' that this is how to do it and then 'help guide' others to be bestsellers. But the title doesn't mean anything (to me) if the reason the title was earned was from a flash sale that didn't result in a stronger readership by the end of it. And why I was talking about the friend who had a bestseller title but my readership (not number of books bought) was bigger than his. (And I'm midlist, I think.)


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

sstroble said:


> Do people still buy based on whether a book is on a "best seller list?" Thought most readers now decide based on the free sample that's usually available because "you can't judge a book by its cover..."


I don't anymore. It might give me another second or two of pause, deliberating over the book, but that's about it. The title, cover, description, and sample still have to do the same job on me that they have to do on a non-bestseller, or I won't waste my money.

In past years I've bought too many books thinking "Well, this was a bestseller, so obviously that must mean it's good," and then been resoundingly disappointed with all the books. That's about when I gave up my personal daydream of becoming a_ Bestselling! Author! _and revamped it instead to "Author who makes enough money to live comfortably and gets nice letters from fans from time to time."

However, I totally get that the Bestseller Dream is still a big one for many of my friends and acquaintances, and I think it's awesome that indies are finding ways to make it happen. I am always happy for any author who achieves his or her dreams, whatever they may be. I wouldn't complain if I ended up on a Bestseller list -- in fact, I'm sure I'd be thrilled! But it's no longer a specific goal I have for my own writing, because it no longer influences me _as a reader_. And whether what writer-me is doing would impress reader-me has become my measuring stick for success.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Asking for references is never taboo... unless its a bordello... or so I've heard.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

I don't think people buy a book because of the bestseller status. I do, however, think it might cause someone to look twice and possibly sway them if they are on the fence. And I don't necessarily think it's a conscious decision. I tend to think my thought process goes something like this: Oh, nice cover. Click. Description. Looks interesting. What do the reviews say. Hmm, some good, some not so good. There's nothing that makes it an instant no. And hey, this author is a USA Today bestseller. Okay, I'll give them a shot. One Click.

Is the title going to open the heavens and rain gold on you? No. But it sure doesn't hurt. And it's looks good on the cover. As far as how easy it is to get on the lists with a boxed set: It's not. Really and truly it isn't. Anyone who makes a list sold a crap ton of books in a short period of time. And I won't get too far into the benefits of boxed sets but I will say I've been in three. All three made me money and helped push my backlist. For me they have been an excellent business decision. 

As far as using a service to make a list...well, if they are taking your title and marketing it so the sales are real, then hey. More power to them. But I'd be asking a lot of questions about how and where.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

sstroble said:


> Do people still buy based on whether a book is on a "best seller list?" Thought most readers now decide based on the free sample that's usually available because "you can't judge a book by its cover..."


Some do, sure. If it's something everyone is talking about, they might want to see what the fuss is. Others don't and never have. I honestly don't think that's changed at all. 

That said, there are 'best seller lists' and 'best seller lists'. Anyone can invent a list and restrict the criteria in such a way as to highlight the books THEY are keen on. So just saying a book is a 'best seller' has become pretty meaningless. Used to be it meant on the NYT which was some level of prestige. Now, even that's not so much the case, and, frankly, from most sources it's just a reflection of what the source wants to sell.  At least at Amazon the top 10, 20, what have you are based on real 'purchases' . . . . though of, course, that's no guarantee that anyone is _reading_ them.  See, that's always the problem with best _sellers_: such a list only proves everyone owns a copy, say of Hawking's _A Brief History of Time_. But it doesn't mean anyone actually read it!


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

Joseph Turkot said:


> What about a cube set? Speaking of Cube, that's one freaky movie.


I F'love that movie!


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2013)

Does anyone other than me find it funny that everyone is claiming that "nobody buys books because of bestseller status" and yet there are a half dozen threads in this forum about how important bestseller lists are?

It is one or the other, folks. Either bestseller lists are important or they aren't.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Does anyone other than me find it funny that everyone is claiming that "nobody buys books because of bestseller status" and yet there are a half dozen threads in this forum about how important bestseller lists are?
> 
> It is one or the other, folks. Either bestseller lists are important or they aren't.


The Bestseller list on Amazon are a completely different beast than the NYT or USA Today Bestseller lists.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2013)

Monique said:


> The Bestseller list on Amazon are a completely different beast than the NYT or USA Today Bestseller lists.


So bestseller lists are important then if it is a list you personally value. Everyone is claiming that people don't buy books because of bestseller status, but maybe they should be qualifying their declarations to specify which bestseller lists matter.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Now personally as a lone and sometimes strange reader the best seller lists mean nothing to me.   Ok I take that back they do if I think you are trying to BS me.   But to get on the actual best seller lists does mean you probably have a pretty good book.
Or a darn good publicist.

Modifying because half my post sounded cranky.


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

> say of Hawking's A Brief History of Time. But it doesn't mean anyone actually read it!


I love his books! I read all of them and want more. If anyone has a recommendation for a great lay book about theoretical physics, send it my way!


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

If his service really could get you thousands of sales, we'd already be talking about it here.

Since we're not...er...well, methinks it's not worth it.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> So bestseller lists are important then if it is a list you personally value. Everyone is claiming that people don't buy books because of bestseller status, but maybe they should be qualifying their declarations to specify which bestseller lists matter.


I think of the Amazon bestseller lists (and B&N and iBooks to a lesser degree) as bookshelves more than lists. This is the prime real estate that publishers pay bookstores ridiculous sums for. It's one of the top 5 reasons the publishing world has been upturned, this democratization of merchandising space.

The NYT list is a reflection of sales (kinda), not a driver of sales. It used to be that a review in the Sunday Books section would lead to a spike in sales. That hasn't been true for years. So this isn't really a bias toward which lists we personally value. Except that we personally value exposure and sales.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

Hey...I read A Brief History of Time and really enjoyed it...


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

I think those various lists had more meaning to readers many years ago. Twenty-five years ago the NYT List and Sunday Book Review could seriously help a book. Today--not so much. Today most informed readers know it's all been gamed by authors and publishers. Plus for genre readers the BS Lists are irrelevant.


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## Courtney Milan (Feb 27, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> I think of the Amazon bestseller lists (and B&N and iBooks to a lesser degree) as bookshelves more than lists. This is the prime real estate that publishers pay bookstores ridiculous sums for. It's one of the top 5 reasons the publishing world has been upturned, this democratization of merchandising space.
> 
> The NYT list is a reflection of sales (kinda), not a driver of sales. It used to be that a review in the Sunday Books section would lead to a spike in sales. That hasn't been true for years. So this isn't really a bias toward which lists we personally value. Except that we personally value exposure and sales.


EXACTLY. If you go into Walgreens or whatever and look at the few books they have on display, you'll see that they often have a "bestseller" section, with numbers, even! What they don't tell you is that sales of that book have nothing to do with that placement. The publishers pay for those placements. If you can have the "#1" slot in the semi-fake bestseller section, you'll get more sales. I say semi-fake Walgreens also wants to sell books, so they're not going to sell the #1 slot to someone who is unknown, so the slots are not totally uncorrelated with author sales. But lo, there is as much chance for an unknown author to pass through the eye of a needle as there is for her to achieve #1 fake bestseller status at Walgreens, no matter what her sales might be. Those Walgreens lists aren't "bestseller" lists--they're merchandising.

Amazon's list is both a list of bestsellers and a reader placement list. The status symbol of being on Amazon's bestseller lists is not really all that exciting. It's the merchandising that results from that placement matters.

We live in an era where authors can purchase their own digital bookstore coop by having a sufficiently rabid fanbase.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Courtney Milan said:


> EXACTLY. If you go into Walgreens or whatever and look at the few books they have on display, you'll see that they often have a "bestseller" section, with numbers, even! What they don't tell you is that sales of that book have nothing to do with that placement. The publishers pay for those placements. If you can have the "#1" slot in the semi-fake bestseller section, you'll get more sales. I say semi-fake Walgreens also wants to sell books, so they're not going to sell the #1 slot to someone who is unknown, so the slots are not totally uncorrelated with author sales. But lo, there is as much chance for an unknown author to pass through the eye of a needle as there is for her to achieve #1 fake bestseller status at Walgreens, no matter what her sales might be. Those Walgreens lists aren't "bestseller" lists--they're merchandising.
> 
> Amazon's list is both a list of bestsellers and a reader placement list. The status symbol of being on Amazon's bestseller lists is not really all that exciting. It's the merchandising that results from that placement matters.
> 
> We live in an era where authors can purchase their own digital bookstore coop by having a sufficiently rabid fanbase.


This is true. Harlequin and Love Inspired still have dedicated "book club readers. First print runs are anywhere from 100K to 250k. But you won't see these books or authors on best seller lists. These books are then repackaged, (in sets of three) and sold on the secondary market to say, Reader's Digest Book Club members. They've cornered this part of the market and are one of the few publishers that actually build mailing lists of readers.

There are many ways books are being sold, many lists, and publishers are paying for the space.

What has changed, is that Amazon has opened up the market somewhat to self publishers.

I predict the new book about Jon Benet Ramsey's murder will make the traditional bestseller lists. Not because the book will be exceptionally written, or because readers will learn anything new about the case, but simply out of curiousity.


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## vdanann (Jan 23, 2014)

I referenced this post on my web page that details the whole scam laid bare. http://kerryjacobson-scam-man.com/


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## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Everything about this smells fishy. Good on you for not taking the bait!


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Scam. Scam. Scam.

Also    How is it the value of the Amazon bestseller list is a mystery?  

Boxed sets with authors who have marketing expertise are your best shot at 'letters'.

A single author achieving letters is much harder b/c there's no magnified marketing effort. Not unless you have a tight group a la The Indie Voice who will support individual releases from group members.

There are typically 10 authors in a bundle all with mailing lists and their own fan bases. So an individual author has to have roughly 10x the brand reach then to have a shot at the list. As a rough calculation.

You can't pay anyone to make a list, it's the fanbase you build that gets you there.

M


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

vdanann said:


> I referenced this post on my web page that details the whole scam laid bare. http://kerryjacobson-scam-man.com/


Thank you for posting that.

eta: There seems to be something wrong with the link now.


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## Ros_Jackson (Jan 11, 2014)

As a reader I don't care much about "NYT Bestseller" on a book, because there are so many different lists now. It's not meaningless, it's just not very exclusive. I don't have time to figure out how common it is, so I don't care. And, obviously, popularity has very little correlation with how much I'll enjoy a story.


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

CLStone said:


> There are some who are able to manipulate them, thus the string of 99 cent sales of a set of multi-author ebooks and then everyone on that list gets the title. And why this guy we were talking about initially is able to 'sell' a package to hit those bestselling lists.


Selfpubbers are better at utilizing this, but trad pubs did it too (and still doing it). They generally did it by getting 4-5 authors, 1 or 2 of them really big, then the rest being midlist or new. Then they were asked to write novellas to be bundled together. The whole point is not just to hit the list (most likely you will due to the strength of the big name author in the collection) but to get people to buy the set and hopefully check out the midlist and/or new authors' stories and like them enough to buy their other books.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

NadiaLee said:


> Selfpubbers are better at utilizing this, but trad pubs did it too (and still doing it). They generally did it by getting 4-5 authors, 1 or 2 of them really big, then the rest being midlist or new. Then they were asked to write novellas to be bundled together. The whole point is not just to hit the list (most likely you will due to the strength of the big name author in the collection) but to get people to buy the set and hopefully check out the midlist and/or new authors' stories and like them enough to buy their other books.


That's true but the multi-author trad anthologies with short stories don't seem as effective for ABCs anymore. See here. I think mostly because readers are so used to getting romance boxed sets of 10-12 full novels for .99c that they won't budge for short stories at a higher price even with big name authors leading the pack.


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## D-King (Mar 24, 2014)

I personally know some of the authors who got conned by Kerry Jacobson, and here's what I know:

1. These authors thought they were paying for "publicist services" because that's how he marketed himself. Book publicists are common in this industry, and they aren't cheap. There are different kinds of publicists.
2. Most of the authors I know checked this Jacobson guy out online. In the early months of 2013, they found nothing that was obviously suspicious because there were no warnings about Jacobson. He had a Facebook page that listed friends and family--and a couple of the authors even checked those people out and they were valid. The fact that this guy had a Facebook page made him seem more sincere. He had a phone number and fax number that worked.
3. He provided a number of endorsements and book titles of works he'd helped promote. Most of the authors I know personally contacted the authors he gave them who had used his services in the past. They gave glowing endorsements. One later recanted after discovering what Jacobson was doing, but at the time she thought he'd helped her.
4. He offered a guarantee--he'd refund the deposit money if he didn't get the desired results (and he offered different kinds of promotion help.)
5. Some of these authors have been in the business for many years, with many published titles--they were not all green newbies. They did their homework, checked him out, contacted sources, searched for negative info online and found nothing to indicate they shouldn't try his service, especially with a signed contract and a guarantee.
6. Some authors spoke with Jacobson on the phone and he answered every question. He was vague about how exactly he did what he did, but most publicists don't disclose every technique, otherwise authors would do everything themselves. He told them he had opt-in mailing lists of buyers and a team behind him.
7. He had a Twitter account as well, though activity slowed over the past few months. Since he booked authors well in advance of their promotion dates, everything was in place back then. Not so much now.
8. Things fell apart in March when many authors reported him to PayPal's fraud team. PayPal is investigating him.
9. Writer Beware is investigating Jacobson and will expose him soon on their site.
10. Legal action is being taken by many of the authors who were conned.
11. Only afterward did more evidence surface regarding this con artist. I personally believe he is running other scams under other names on Facebook and Goodreads. He has various LLCs in his name: Tank Top Media, AuthorBub, BookGenie...and more. I suspect AuthorOffer.com is him too because there are too many similarities. Some of these sites were only recently linked to him, so those who bought his "services" last spring/summer didn't have access to this information. More is coming to light every month on this guy.
12. You can read about one author's experience at http://archive.is/RttqK (it's an archived copy of one author's experience.)
13. Jacobson pulled his Facebook page down when the sh!t hit the fan but a few days later he put one up again.

I recommend that people remember to judge the scammer for the slime he is and not the authors who were conned. My friends are humiliated enough without others making them feel small or stupid. These are smart people who were played. They need compassion and understanding because in all honesty, this could've happened to almost any writer. We'll all learn from their experience. And you can be certain they've learned to be that much more careful.

I would be very leery of any promotional website that opened in the past couple of months, especially if it is linked to Florida. I would do a "whois domain 'domainname.com'" search and look into who registered the site. I'd check Facebook, Goodreads and Twitter for any sign of someone spamming authors. Especially if he tells you he saw you make an Amazon Top 100 list of any kind. That's his M.O. He watches the Top 100 lists, and Movers and Shakers list, then he attacks.

As for the goal of making NYT's or USA Today's list, there's nothing wrong with wanting that. Many authors do. It's not just about the status, which can be used on book covers, it's about the income that is generated and the exposure you get. I know authors who made those lists and were then contacted by publishers who gave them contracts. Yeah, I know--not everyone wants that either. But some do. And others were contacted by agents. Some were contacted by Amazon and offered all kinds of perks. I think many authors would want these opportunities-and the income.

--D-King


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I live in FL. I live near Tampa. I know two head sheriffs from neighboring counties. If you need someone locally to report or look into what could be a scam against authors here, let me know.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

I'm willing to go for that marketing deal, but instead of cash upfront, I'd cut them into splitting the profits from their efforts. Kidding aside, maybe that is the future of publishing: find really worthy commercial books and offer marketing expertise in exchange for a cut of the sales.


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## RachelHanna (Aug 5, 2012)

I too had the same conversation with that person last year. That's the first round of fees. The next round was over $10k.


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## RachelHanna (Aug 5, 2012)

I won't say who, but he did tell me one of the authors he helped last year who had a top 10 book for quite some time. I got so curious that I actually contacted her directly and she did confirm that she worked with him on her first book. At the time, she wasn't sure if she would work with him again on her second book. She had some lingering questions after doing it the first time although she made lots of money and got lots of recognition from her first partnership with him.


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## D-King (Mar 24, 2014)

RachelHanna said:


> I won't say who, but he did tell me one of the authors he helped last year who had a top 10 book for quite some time. I got so curious that I actually contacted her directly and she did confirm that she worked with him on her first book. At the time, she wasn't sure if she would work with him again on her second book. She had some lingering questions after doing it the first time although she made lots of money and got lots of recognition from her first partnership with him.


According to my sources, Kerry Jacobson claimed he helped Tim Ferris, Amy Harmon, John Locke, Jordan Rubin (Jacobson is thanked by name in one of their books) and a children's science fiction author, plus 100-200 more. Harmon told him to quit using her endorsement last fall when she discovered he was ripping off other authors. He ignored her and continued to use her. John Locke's name only came up recently; his name was only given to a couple of authors. The more time passes, the more is revealed, and the more my friends learn about the intricacy of this scam.

--D-King


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

Joe_Nobody said:


> I've long searched/tried to develop this capability.


I've thought that's what people here should do for each other. Adopt a book day!


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## D-King (Mar 24, 2014)

Writer Beware now has a warning up about this guy: http://t.co/Ad9o8dXXBi

Kerry Jacobson is definitely a scammer, and apparently a very convincing one. Most publicists are pricey, and this guy guaranteed results or the authors would get their deposits back. Plus he had endorsements from other authors who claimed he helped them.

One of my friends said a lawyer has been hired to go after him. I hope they sue his @$$ and charge him with fraud.

D-King


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