# Genre Subcategories | Looking For Authors of the New, Odd, Cross, Weird, Fringe



## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

So, have you ever gone to place your new book in a category and not been able to find the right listing? Everything felt like it kind-sorta worked but was kinda-sorta misleading to the customer at the same time?

I recently had an idea for a blog article I want to write. Hopefully, the authors of the new, odd, cross genre, weird, and fringe, may be able to help me with part of the research. I need to know what Genre Category or Subcategory you wish might have been there to select for your novel. Provide an explanation of why you wished it existed, if you have a original name for the category and the type of story you see in this category.  It can be super specific or even a clever new name for a mixture of genre crosses.  An Example I might give: I always wished there was a mind-bending category for psychologically manipulative types of fiction (Think: Inception, Eternal Sunshine for the Spotless Mind). This way you could have Mind-Bending SciFi or Mind-Bending Thriller. (just an example)

I’d really appreciate anyone willing to contribute some thoughts.  The only incentive I can offer to help me out is that I’ll provide a list of the categories and author’s books that would land in the categories within the post.  So there is a bit of a promotional/exposure opportunity.  I will of course do some quality control and check out how the books have been reviewed before listing them as exemplary of said theoretical category.

Thank you ahead of time for your throughts!


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## Taitrina (Oct 17, 2014)

Well the series I'm writing is Crime/Sci-Fi and while I can cross a lot of genres on Amazon, I don't seem to be able to cross those. I'm no expert at Amazon though so maybe I'm missing a trick. It's making research a bit annoying as everyone says find something similar to yours. I try all the keywords I can think of and nothing really comes close. To be honest I'm not sure if that's a good thing, or really really bad.

Not sure if that helps you at all. My book isn't published yet, it's going to the editor in two weeks  and so I'll find out in a month or two what categories amazon actually lets me pick. So far I've only looked at it from a readers perspective, trying to find out where I think the book would go. I'm quite new to this.


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## Jennifer R P (Oct 19, 2012)

Well, Amazon needs to do horror subcategories. They really do.


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## ML-Larson (Feb 18, 2015)

I think the trick is to just pick the two main categories (like Sci-Fi and Mystery) and then keyword stuff to get where you need to be.

Mystery Keywords: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A3NTX9NCJD3D5X
Sci-Fi keywords: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2G3ZMYDPB9VRM


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## Christine Tate (Feb 24, 2014)

I write women's Bible studies.  Christian Non-Fiction is a genre category not used much.  A lot of the time the category is "Religious" or "Spiritual".  When they do offer a category for "Christian", a sub-category for Bible studies is rarely available.  Although Bible studies are Christian Non-Fiction, there is a distinct difference between a novel length non-fiction title devoted to discussing the life of Paul vs. an 8 week interactive workbook style women's Bible study.


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## tknite (Feb 18, 2014)

Taitrina said:


> Well the series I'm writing is Crime/Sci-Fi and while I can cross a lot of genres on Amazon, I don't seem to be able to cross those. I'm no expert at Amazon though so maybe I'm missing a trick. It's making research a bit annoying as everyone says find something similar to yours. I try all the keywords I can think of and nothing really comes close. To be honest I'm not sure if that's a good thing, or really really bad.
> 
> Not sure if that helps you at all. My book isn't published yet, it's going to the editor in two weeks  and so I'll find out in a month or two what categories amazon actually lets me pick. So far I've only looked at it from a readers perspective, trying to find out where I think the book would go. I'm quite new to this.


I also write Sci-Fi Crime. What I do is just stick it in all the applicable sci-fi subcategories and all the applicable thriller categories, one of which is Crime. That's as close as can I get to "Sci-Fi Crime" using the traditional category-keyword approach.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Oh my word, I'm going to love your blog! I write quirky cross-genre all the time. Several reviewers who like that sort of thing have read quite a few of my books and mentioned in their reviews how much they enjoyed the quirky aspects.

Here are some of my cross-genre publications...

I actually use my own category to describe my novel, *Shade*, whenever possible: "Young Adult Mystery novel with Paranormal elements." Readers seem to appreciate knowing beforehand that it's a Young Adult Mystery, not totally Paranormal.

I describe every book in my *Trilogy of The Fisherman's Son* -* The Fisherman's Son*, *The City of the Golden Sun*, and *Return of the Golden Age*- as "Children's middle grade fantasy adventure novels."

*Mutation Z: The Ebola Zombies*, which will soon be a series of books, could be labeled "Post-Apocalyptic Science Fiction/Zombie Fiction/Political Zombie Science Fiction - with a twist of Horror."

My short story, *Occupy Faerie*, should probably be labeled "Political Fantasy Short Story."


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Yup, my Sycamore Moon series is Crime Fantasy. The Seventh Sons is a werewolf police procedural. It's desolate and gritty and bleak like contemporary crime should be, but I love layering in fantasy elements.


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## jillb (Oct 4, 2014)

I didn't realize this when I wrote and titled my book but Amazon doesn't have a Home Economics category! 
I did, however, piggyback on a well-known public domain title which I think helped me get some sales  .


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## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

There should really be a category for bizarro, and a category for weird fiction.

Both categories defy genre, sometimes explicitly, but they've become their own things that people seek out by name.

A lot of it goes under horror (e.g. H.P. Lovecraft is considered weird fiction), but a lot of it doesn't (e.g. China Miéville is considered weird fiction too, but not horror).

As a reader, I seek out those categories, but usually the only way to find similarly defined works is through also-boughts. Categories would make them easier to find, and looking at additional categories could give an idea of what flavour of weird/bizarro a book really is.

My own Give Me Back My *Censored* Arm is sort of sci-fi with a touch of bizarro. That's hard to communicate in the description without making it too talky and boring, and the categories don't help.

Looking forward to your article!


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## ML-Larson (Feb 18, 2015)

Phronk said:


> My own Give Me Back My *Censored* Arm is sort of sci-fi with a touch of bizarro. That's hard to communicate in the description without making it too talky and boring, and the categories don't help.
> 
> Looking forward to your article!


You just got a buy from me. I'll read it tonight.


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## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

ML-Larson said:


> You just got a buy from me. I'll read it tonight.


Hey thanks! I really appreciate that.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Okay, So far I've got:
SciFi/Fantasy/Paranormal Crime | Taitrina | ML-Larson | tknite | Domino Finn

_Werewolf Noir_ (?) | Domino Finn - Perhaps Noir is not modern enough for a Police Procedural but I liked the sound of it.

YA Paranormal Mystery | Known as _Shade_ | Marilyn Peake

MG Fantasy Adventure | Marilyn Peake

Post-Apocalyptic SciFi | Zombie | Political | Marilyn Peake - Maybe shorten to _Zombie Political Thriller_?

Political Fantasy | Marilyn Peake

_Bizarro _| Weird Fiction | Phronk - I like Bizarro but I kind of like the idea of just calling it _Phronk _Fiction

Horror Subcategories | Jennifer R P (Any specific ones you hoped they would have?)

_Mind-Bending_ Science Fiction | Myself

Admittedly I was thinking Fiction, but I don't see that It has to be:
Women's Bible Studies | Christine Tate

Home Economics | jillb


Hopefully the list will keep growing, but as a side project I'd love to come up with some good names for all these categories. I guess think of it this way. If you were going to be known as The _____ Author, what might you want the blank to be? For instance, _The Werewolf Noir Author, The Phronk Author, The Shade Author._ Ehhh... maybe its _not _the best way to think about it but it might help http


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## Colorwheel (Nov 21, 2014)

My genres are muddled, but my style isn't weird _enough_, rather than too weird. However, this sounds like a cool idea, and I want to read your article when it's done.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Here's one:

Urban Rural Fantasy + Romance + Paranormal + Sword and Sorcery= heck if I know. (Oh, and add a touch of beauty and the beast with a side order of gargoyles in there.)

I didn't start out with the idea to write that, honest. It just happened.  [Tried to write a paranormal shifter romance. My characters were like, "You sure you want to go there, with us?" ::Gargoyle hero laughs evilly:: ]

Also known as: why the trad pubs would never touch me with a ten hundred foot pole.

I usually just label it under the umbrella of Fantasy Romance and move on.

::sighes::


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

Jennifer R P said:


> Well, Amazon needs to do horror subcategories. They really do.


Yes, please. I contacted Amazon asking them to get my horror novel into a vampire subcategory, and they were like, "All our vampire subcategories are, erm, romance and teen/YA." (Which isn't totally accurate--there's "Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Suspense > Paranormal > Vampires"...but that's still _not horror_ and not what I want to choose if I didn't write a mystery, thriller, or suspense novel.)


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## ML-Larson (Feb 18, 2015)

Yeah, I was really surprised at just how many fantasy categories there were.  I didn't even mean to get sorted into Norse and Viking, and had no idea how I'd managed that at first, until someone linked me to Amazon's cheat sheet.  

Learning that other categories are non-existent, both in comparison and in reality was actually kind of a shocker.  Where do Stephen King books get sorted, then?


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

My books are categorized as "Steampunk," but I keep thinking that I'd really rather categorize them as "Alternate History Fantasy/Paranormal." Because, frankly, I think there's more in my books for the paranormal reader than the SF reader, and anything Alternate History is, from what I recal,l immediately categorized as SF.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Z. Rider said:


> Yes, please. I contacted Amazon asking them to get my horror novel into a vampire subcategory, and they were like, "All our vampire subcategories are, erm, romance and teen/YA." (Which isn't totally accurate--there's "Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Suspense > Paranormal > Vampires"...but that's still _not horror_ and not what I want to choose if I didn't write a mystery, thriller, or suspense novel.)


I just wanted to say your covers are awesome.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Hehe, werewolf noir is pretty cool. Although I still haven't settled on how to brand myself.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:


> YA Paranormal Mystery | Known as _Shade_ | Marilyn Peake
> 
> MG Fantasy Adventure | Marilyn Peake
> 
> ...


YA Paranormal Mystery sounds great for *Shade*. For *The Fisherman's Son* series, MG Fantasy Adventure probably won't work for readers who don't know what MG stands for. That's why I started labeling it "Children's Fantasy Adventure" or "Children's Middle Grade Fantasy Adventure." But MG Fantasy Adventure might work. For *Mutation Z: The Ebola Zombies*, Zombie Political Thriller sounds great. (Thanks for that!) For *Occupy Faerie*, Political Fantasy is close; Political Dark Fantasy or Dark Political Fantasy might actually work better.



TElleryHodges said:


> Hopefully the list will keep growing, but as a side project I'd love to come up with some good names for all these categories. I guess think of it this way. If you were going to be known as The _____ Author, what might you want the blank to be? For instance, _The Werewolf Noir Author, The Phronk Author, The Shade Author._ Ehhh... maybe its _not _the best way to think about it but it might help http


Hmmmm. Great question! Maybe Author of the Fantastical and Quirky or Author of the Fantastical and Strange?


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## Taitrina (Oct 17, 2014)

tknite said:


> I also write Sci-Fi Crime. What I do is just stick it in all the applicable sci-fi subcategories and all the applicable thriller categories, one of which is Crime. That's as close as can I get to "Sci-Fi Crime" using the traditional category-keyword approach.


Oh that's interesting. Thank you! I just checked out your website, it's really really nice, puts mine to shame. As I said I haven't published yet, so selecting categories is an experience I've yet to have. Your advice certainly seems solid though, I will remember it. Thanks.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I have real problems finding a category for my short story collections. I've managed to get Something Nicer into Magical Realism, but that seems a little highbrow for a collection of stories which includes a boy developing an abusive relationship with the evil clown under his bed.

I was drawn to Bizarro as a genre when I first heard about it, but then I looked at some of the wilder excesses of the genre and decided I wasn't quite that out there.

I guess I'm "The Quirky Author", in that I take familiar genre tropes including science-fiction, horror, fantasy and contemporary fiction, and take them in unexpected directions.

Quirky Stories is probably a category too obscure even for this project, though


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

TElleryHodges said:


> I just wanted to say your covers are awesome.


Thanks! All the credit goes to Damon Za.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I write a superhero deconstruction, and I'm fairly sure mine will be the only one in the Kindle store once I publish - from what I've seen, the other superhero fiction is genre standard. I'd be happy if Amazon just cleaned up the superhero category and moved all the werewolf / vampire fiction to their own sections.

It's a deconstruction because, well... there are no secret identities, it's Game of Thrones style dark, pretty much all the heroes are antiheroes and none of the 'villains' try to destroy the world / kill everyone. International politics are throwing the world into chaos instead. The lines between hero, rogue and villain are all kinds of blurry. Also, characters comment on how wrong the comics were about superpowers.


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## tknite (Feb 18, 2014)

Taitrina said:


> Oh that's interesting. Thank you! I just checked out your website, it's really really nice, puts mine to shame. As I said I haven't published yet, so selecting categories is an experience I've yet to have. Your advice certainly seems solid though, I will remember it. Thanks.


Thanks! If you go to the Echoes Amazon page, you can see all the categories I've got it in. All those came from the 2 main category selections plus 7 keywords -- you might not be able to get your book into exactly the right cross-categories, but you can certainly get it into a good number of relevant categories.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> I write a superhero deconstruction, and I'm fairly sure mine will be the only one in the Kindle store once I publish - from what I've seen, the other superhero fiction is genre standard. I'd be happy if Amazon just cleaned up the superhero category and moved all the werewolf / vampire fiction to their own sections.
> 
> It's a deconstruction because, well... there are no secret identities, it's Game of Thrones style dark, pretty much all the heroes are antiheroes and none of the 'villains' try to destroy the world / kill everyone. International politics are throwing the world into chaos instead. The lines between hero, rogue and villain are all kinds of blurry. Also, characters comment on how wrong the comics were about superpowers.


We should swap books  What your's titled?


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

TElleryHodges said:


> We should swap books  What your's titled?


I haven't published an ebook just yet! The story currently exists as a 200K word web serial, and the editing will take a few more months. For some reason my serial readers don't seem to mind the third drafts, but I'm hesitant to let any more Kboarders see it before the editor is done. 

If you'd like to send me a PM, I'll let you know right away when the ebooks are done!

I checked your book out, sounds very interesting! The price is a bit over my budget right now, but I'll grab it when I get the chance.


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## callan (Feb 29, 2012)

Well, I like to think I'm blazing a new trail with YA space opera--I couldn't call it dystopian, so I had to settle for a larger and much more competitive category of YA SF.


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## Brian Olsen (Jan 13, 2013)

Great topic! I've definitely struggled with categories for my series. In my blurb I call it a "contemporary urban science fiction comedic thriller" series, which sort of covers it. I put it into Science Fiction/Action and Adventure and Thrillers/Technothrillers, which sort of get it across, and it also winds up in LGBT Sci Fi thanks to my keywords. I wish there was an "Urban Science Fiction" category, like urban fantasy but with sci fi elements instead of magical - that would probably be the most accurate.


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## Genre Hoarder (Oct 4, 2014)

I have three books set in the 1960's and 1970;s and am very limited as to what category to put them in. While its true that they have Romance elements, they aren't just Romance books and setting them in Historical Romance just doesn't feel right. I know there is a Beatnik subcategory, but that's not remotely similar to the stories I've written. 

Now, I have four books waiting to be released set in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's and am at a loss as to where they should go.

Thanks!


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Z. Rider said:


> Thanks! All the credit goes to Damon Za.


I just reached out to him to see if he would want to redesign my cover. Thanks for that! I mentioned your covers art as what lead me to him. I don't know if he does deals for referrals but you can claim me if he does


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Would love to see Dog Fiction as a subcategory of Animal Fiction. Crazy thing is there are actually a fair number of them (_The Art of Racing in the Rain, A Dog's Purpose, The Horse Whisperer, The Warriors _series...) and people who read dog books tend to be very fan girl about the ones they like.

Cozy Mystery and Children's Books have subcategories for animals, but most of the rest get lumped into Literary Fiction, which is a pretty broad spectrum.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

soulfulone said:


> I have three books set in the 1960's and 1970;s and am very limited as to what category to put them in. While its true that they have Romance elements, they aren't just Romance books and setting them in Historical Romance just doesn't feel right. I know there is a Beatnik subcategory, but that's not remotely similar to the stories I've written.
> 
> Now, I have four books waiting to be released set in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's and am at a loss as to where they should go.
> 
> Thanks!


I think there is a keyword accessible subcategory for 20th century historical fiction.


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## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

TElleryHodges said:


> _Bizarro _| Weird Fiction | Phronk - I like Bizarro but I kind of like the idea of just calling it _Phronk _Fiction


Hahah, bizarro is already pretty well-established, but if I had my own subgenre, then I'd know I've really made it.



> _Werewolf Noir_ (?) | Domino Finn - Perhaps Noir is not modern enough for a Police Procedural but I liked the sound of it.


I have a half-finished werewolf noir novel too! If it ever gets published, then two books is enough to make it an official genre, right?


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## AlbertB (Nov 11, 2014)

Where would paranormal noir fit in, 'cause I'm reading a book now that is so out there I don't even know if I'll finish...lol


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

This is great! Keep 'em coming folks, let me know if you have better ideas for naming categories already mentioned.
Updated List:

*FICTION*


SciFi Fantasy _Paranormal Crime_ | Taitrina | ML-Larson | tknite

_Paranormal Noir_ or _Werewolf Noir_ | Domino Finn and AlbertB

_SHADE_ | Meaning: YA Paranormal Mystery | Marilyn Peake

MG Fantasy Adventure | Marilyn Peake

_Zombie Political Thriller_ | Marilyn Peake

Political Fantasy | Marilyn Peake

_Bizarro Fiction _| Phronk

_Mind-Bending_ Science Fiction | T. Ellery Hodges

_Psy-Fi | Psychological Science Fiction | T. Ellery Hodges_
_

Superhero Deconstruction | Perhaps Superhero Satire/Parody? | C. Rysalis

Fanstasy > Magical Realism | alawston


Urban SciFi > Comedy Thriller | Brian Olsen | Yeah its hard to be both comedy and thiller


Animal Fiction > Dog | N. Gemini Sasson | Perhaps Animal Anthropomorphism(?)


YA space opera | YA-SF | Callan


Fantasy> Sword and Para-Sorcery | Yeah that needs a better title | Lisa Blackwood


Horror Subcategories | Non-YA Vampire > Mystery | Z Rider & Jennifer R P


20th century historical fiction> More Subcategories | Soulfulone

*NON-FICTION*

Women's Bible Studies | Christine Tate

Home Economics | jillb

_


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## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

I'm in complete agreement with Joanna Penn, there should be a Supernatural Suspense category. There's more and more books of that knd coming out every day.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Hmmm, I don't think my superhero deconstruction would classify as a parody. It's more of a 'realistic' exploration of the theme - what would REALLY happen if powers manifested in our world? It's not nearly as glorious and fun as the comics would make you believe... 

Spoiler: the character death count is somewhere up there with a Song of Ice and Fire.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'd be happy if Amazon just cleaned up the superhero category and moved all the werewolf / vampire fiction to their own sections.


God, yes. The superhero category is like a dumping ground for paranormal romance.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Hmmm, I don't think my superhero deconstruction would classify as a parody. It's more of a 'realistic' exploration of the theme - what would REALLY happen if powers manifested in our world? It's not nearly as glorious and fun as the comics would make you believe...
> 
> Spoiler: the character death count is somewhere up there with a Song of Ice and Fire.


We're peas in a pod. This is one of the underlying themes I was trying to get at in the first installment of The Never Hero. Sorry, I don't mean to come off self-promot-y. One of my reviews summed up my categorization problem pretty well in its own praise for the book: "An imaginative amalgamation of genres." Essentially, I found myself wanting to put the story into Superhero, but knew it wouldn't please the people looking for a typical superhero story. It has elements of time travel and alien invasion at the same time but its not Doctor Who or War of the Worlds.

Suffice it to say, I look forward to your book and have sympathy for your categorization issues 

Subcategory Name Ideas: Gritty Superhero, Dark Superhero, Real Hero, True Hero


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> God, yes. The superhero category is like a dumping ground for paranormal romance.


Couldn't agree more, every time I look at the top 100 in the superhero category I have to do a double check that I didn't somehow hit werewolf erotica. Whenever I've manage to slip into the top 100 after a giveaway I find my book surrounded by a dozen photos that are all slight variations of an angle on men's abs.


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## Holly A Hook (Sep 19, 2010)

I've categorized my Destroyers Series and Deathwind Trilogy both as YA Paranormal and under Nature and the Natural World/Weather on Amazon.  I wish there was a category for Teens>Fiction>Paranormal>Weather.  My first book, Tempest, can easily show up when searching either "Young Adult Paranormal" and, say, "Hurricanes."  The Deathwind Trilogy shows up when someone searches "Tornado" or "teen books with fantasy and love."

I think I am the only person in the world who writes Young Adult Paranormal Weather novels as far as I know.  I have a hard time explaining my genre to people.  Instead of werewolves, for instance, I have a girl who finds out she's expected to transform into a hurricane.


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## Colorwheel (Nov 21, 2014)

Man, that reminds me that I need to watch Earth Maiden Arjuna one of these days.

I'm constantly paranoid that there IS a genre that matches my work out there, and I'm just not well-read enough to know about it. I'm not all that; I'm sure I haven't invented some stunning new thing that nobody has ever seen before. I just write fantasy in which the world is not in constant peril. It's basically general fiction / women's fiction / romance (depending on the book) in a non-Earth setting, bouncing off the sociological and technological differences between our world and theirs. That's not that revolutionary. Somebody has to have done it before. I try to be careful not to tout how unique I am, because there's always a chance I didn't get to the concept first, and then I look like a clueless jerk.

But if it is out there, there are books I'd adore that I haven't read yet!! So it's terrifying and awesome at the same time.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Holly A Hook said:


> I've categorized my Destroyers Series and Deathwind Trilogy both as YA Paranormal and under Nature and the Natural World/Weather on Amazon. I wish there was a category for Teens>Fiction>Paranormal>Weather. My first book, Tempest, can easily show up when searching either "Young Adult Paranormal" and, say, "Hurricanes." The Deathwind Trilogy shows up when someone searches "Tornado" or "teen books with fantasy and love."
> 
> I think I am the only person in the world who writes Young Adult Paranormal Weather novels as far as I know. I have a hard time explaining my genre to people. Instead of werewolves, for instance, I have a girl who finds out she's expected to transform into a hurricane.


I'm just throwing this out there, the first thing that came to mind was 'Elemental Shifter.' Without reading I don't know if that is way off though.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

I definitely write things that would be considered weird or fringe. My "Atomic Sea" series is epic fantasy crossed with weird fiction, even featuring some Lovecraftian elements ( and it's free today 3/14 -15, woo-hoo! click on the picture below ). I list it under epic fantasy and space opera, as it also crosses boundaries into sci fi territory. I wish there was a weird fiction subcategory, or a maybe even a New Weird subcategory, but alas. Space opera seems a clumsy fit, as the action is confined to one planet, but oh well.

I think Amazon penalizes me for having a book that doesn't neatly fit into a category, and even though I have some keywords like "epic fantasy" in the actual title, the book won't show up when I type "epic fantasy" into the Amazon search box. It appears in steampunk, though that word is _not _in the title, which makes some sense, but still. It's every bit as much fantasy as it is steampunk. And there's no way it shows up in a search for space opera.

It's frustrating.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

jackconnerbooks said:


> I definitely write things that would be considered weird or fringe. My "Atomic Sea" series is epic fantasy crossed with weird fiction, even featuring some Lovecraftian elements ( and it's free today 3/14 -15, woo-hoo! click on the picture below ). I list it under epic fantasy and space opera, as it also crosses boundaries into sci fi territory. I wish there was a weird fiction subcategory, or a maybe even a New Weird subcategory, but alas. Space opera seems a clumsy fit, as the action is confined to one planet, but oh well.
> 
> I think Amazon penalizes me for having a book that doesn't neatly fit into a category, and even though I have some keywords like "epic fantasy" in the actual title, the book won't show up when I type "epic fantasy" into the Amazon search box. It appears in steampunk, though that word is _not _in the title, which makes some sense, but still. It's every bit as much fantasy as it is steampunk. And there's no way it shows up in a search for space opera.
> 
> It's frustrating.


I don't know if this actually works, but perhaps double down? Put Epic Fantasy in your SEO terms and the title and see what happens. I don't pretend to be an expert, might research if it actually has an effect or is just a waste of an SEO term.

On a side note, I've always wondered what happens if you alter the subtitle of your book to include a search term. Like if I change the mine to say a mind-bending scifi trilogy. Could this dissociate the ebook from its paperback? Worse, could it dissociate it from its reviews? I've been too wary of it to experiment. Anyone have a good resource on these things?


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

This is all great feedback, _please let me know if you have better ideas for naming categories already mentioned._

*Notes *
(1) I hope my attempts to name categories isn't rubbing anyone the wrong way, I'm really just trying to capture the essence of things in a helpful way.
(2) I've started drafting the article, it isn't going in the direction of items related to any non-fiction so I have removed those entries. I mean no offense by this to the people who submitted and I do still appreciate the feedback. 
(3) The list is getting long. If *you are mentioned* in the list below and would like links to your book and what not in the blog post, please submit a private message with the most ideal novel you've published that fits the category and its relevant links to your social media. I'll try my best to research these things if you don't but it will make my job a lot easier when I'm ready to post this.

*Updated List:*

*FICTION*


SciFi Fantasy _Paranormal Crime_ | Taitrina | ML-Larson | tknite

_Paranormal Noir_ or _Werewolf Noir_ | Domino Finn and AlbertB

_SHADE_ | Meaning: YA Paranormal Mystery | Marilyn Peake

MG Fantasy Adventure | Marilyn Peake

_Zombie Political Thriller_ | Marilyn Peake

Political Fantasy | Marilyn Peake

_Bizarro Fiction _| Phronk

_Mind-Bending_ Science Fiction | T. Ellery Hodges

_Psy-Fi | Psychological Science Fiction | T. Ellery Hodges_
_

Superhero Deconstruction | Superhero Reality | C. Rysalis

Fanstasy > Magical Realism | alawston


Urban SciFi > Comedic Thriller | Brian Olsen


Animal Fiction > Dog | N. Gemini Sassonm(?)

YA space opera | YA-SF | Callan


Fantasy> Sword and Para-Sorcery | Lisa Blackwood


Horror Subcategories | Non-YA Vampire > Mystery | Z Rider & Jennifer R P


20th century historical fiction> More Subcategories | Soulfulone

Elemental Shifters | Holly A Hook

Weird Epic Fantasy | Maybe Fringe Fantasy(?) | jackconnerbooks
_


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Colorwheel said:


> Man, that reminds me that I need to watch Earth Maiden Arjuna one of these days.
> 
> I'm constantly paranoid that there IS a genre that matches my work out there, and I'm just not well-read enough to know about it. I'm not all that; I'm sure I haven't invented some stunning new thing that nobody has ever seen before. I just write fantasy in which the world is not in constant peril. It's basically general fiction / women's fiction / romance (depending on the book) in a non-Earth setting, bouncing off the sociological and technological differences between our world and theirs. That's not that revolutionary. Somebody has to have done it before. I try to be careful not to tout how unique I am, because there's always a chance I didn't get to the concept first, and then I look like a clueless jerk.
> 
> But if it is out there, there are books I'd adore that I haven't read yet!! So it's terrifying and awesome at the same time.


Hi Colorwheel,

I felt pretty similar, I researched what I thought was the main piece of originality in my own trilogy. Its a tricky business because without having actually read everything, a blurb or title won't always tell you. At one point a review pointed out to me that they felt my book was very similar to another authors. It turned out I hadn't found it myself because the writer published a month before me and I had stopped researching at that point. I, of course, downloaded it immediately and binge read the whole book. (oddly the guy had the same college major as me as well) Luckily, the similarity wasn't exactly what I considered my key piece. Still, certain aspects lead the story down a very similar path. Might not believe me, but it wasn't a let down in the end. It was really cool to read an author with a similar vision, see that he came to the same decision points in his writing that I had and sometimes went in a different direction, often times directions that I myself had considered. It was like getting to see a "What if" this had happened, an alternate reality of my story. In the end, I still felt good about my own work. Anyhow I guess I'm saying, if it happens, how you feel about it might surprise you.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:
 

> I hope my attempts to name categories isn't rubbing anyone the wrong way, I'm really just trying to capture the essence of things in a helpful way.


Actually, I want to thank you for doing this and especially for suggesting the term YA Paranormal Mystery for my novel, *Shade*. It's much better than the term I had been using to describe it: "Young Adult Mystery novel with Paranormal elements." I found myself thinking, _Why didn't I think of that?_ I'll send you links right now.


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## Colorwheel (Nov 21, 2014)

TElleryHodges said:


> Hi Colorwheel,
> 
> I felt pretty similar, I researched what I thought was the main piece of originality in my own trilogy. Its a tricky business because without having actually read everything, a blurb or title won't always tell you. At one point a review pointed out to me that they felt my book was very similar to another authors. It turned out I hadn't found it myself because the writer published a month before me and I had stopped researching at that point. I, of course, downloaded it immediately and binge read the whole book. (oddly the guy had the same college major as me as well) Luckily, the similarity wasn't exactly what I considered my key piece. Still, certain aspects lead the story down a very similar path. Might not believe me, but it wasn't a let down in the end. It was really cool to read an author with a similar vision, see that he came to the same decision points in his writing that I had and sometimes went in a different direction, often times directions that I myself had considered. It was like getting to see a "What if" this had happened, an alternate reality of my story. In the end, I still felt good about my own work. Anyhow I guess I'm saying, if it happens, how you feel about it might surprise you.


Well, I'm not so much scared that something like it exists. I've since tried to find books like it, and I've succeeded in finding a handful with a few common threads. But those common threads don't have a cohesive genre name, which makes them harder to find. And yeah, sometimes it isn't even clear from a blurb. I've bought/downloaded a lot of books on hunches. 

But I've liked them so far! I'm always excited to find books like it. I wrote it because I wanted to read things like it, after all. And nothing has been _exactly_ like mine; we all have different styles and voices, even in the same genre.

It's just that I stop short of running around yelling about what a groundbreaking visionary I am. There was an author a little while ago who basically claimed to have invented erotica, because he wasn't too familiar with the field, but went ahead to make bold claims about its history. The erotica authors had a field day tearing him to shreds. I am so terrified of a scenario like that.

Just a sidebar, though. Bottom line, it's not always easy to find what you're looking for, which in turn can make it harder to know whether what you're looking for exists.


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## Scott Pixello (May 4, 2013)

I haven't yet found an easy category for 'YA tongue-in-cheek historical fiction with adult crossover,' which is where my Keith Ramsbottom series mostly hangs out.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Seems most of what I do isn't really a classic example of one category or another.

*Timekeepers:* 3 books... characters are young/mid-teens (14, 15, 16) so that would seem to fit YA. But the stories are not the 'usual' YA coming-of-age thing and also not 'issue'-oriented, dealing with things like depression, bullying, first love, abuse, etc. In tone they're more MG, as they're action/adventures. I usually put them in either MG or YA fiction but try to specify in blurb and keywords what they are and what they're not.

*It Takes a Thief:* 3 novellas... caper stories, of a pickpocket/thief (Gina) and a former cop turned security consultant who right wrongs and help people. Sort of like the show Leverage, for those who are familiar with it. I usually put it in crime / mystery but not sure either of those are accurate as there isn't really a mystery and some of the 'crimes' are usually committed by the MCs.  I think my main categories are Action/Adventure and Crime and Contemporary Women, or some combination of the three. 

*Boys in Blue:* 3 novellas (or novelettes).... More or less cop fiction, but _not_ the gritty, hardboiled kind with detectives who swear and drink and manhandle the bad guys, calling them "dirtbag" or worse. Instead it's just slice-of-life depiction of the life of officers on routine patrol and the crazy, odd, sometimes silly stuff they run across. Like the other series, I've got them slotted in as Action/Adventure and Crime, but they're not really solidly either one of those, at least not in the accepted way.

As Kermit says, it's not easy being green.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Jena H said:


> Seems most of what I do isn't really a classic example of one category or another.
> 
> *Timekeepers:* 3 books... characters are young/mid-teens (14, 15, 16) so that would seem to fit YA. But the stories are not the 'usual' YA coming-of-age thing and also not 'issue'-oriented, dealing with things like depression, bullying, first love, abuse, etc. In tone they're more MG, as they're action/adventures. I usually put them in either MG or YA fiction but try to specify in blurb and keywords what they are and what they're not.
> 
> ...


Hi Jena,

(1) Is timekeepers about time travel?
(2) it takes a thief | is this predominately a root for the villain scenario?
(3) Maybe comedic crime investigation?


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Marilyn Peake said:


> Actually, I want to thank you for doing this and especially for suggesting the term YA Paranormal Mystery for my novel, *Shade*. It's much better than the term I had been using to describe it: "Young Adult Mystery novel with Paranormal elements." I found myself thinking, _Why didn't I think of that?_ I'll send you links right now.


Thanks Marilyn!  Plus added benefit , strategically, 'YA Paranormal Mystery' is a more likely linking of words a reader might search for on Amazon.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Scott Pixello said:


> I haven't yet found an easy category for 'YA tongue-in-cheek historical fiction with adult crossover,' which is where my Keith Ramsbottom series mostly hangs out.


I feel this is trickier than simple genre. It kinda sounds like you have a shared universe with books aimed at different age demographics? Maybe I'm misunderstand?

Although shared universe wouldn't be a bad category idea, though hard to imagine how to organize and implement.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:


> Hi Jena,
> 
> (1) Is timekeepers about time travel?
> (2) it takes a thief | is this predominately a root for the villain scenario?
> (3) Maybe comedic crime investigation?


1) Yes, Timekeepers is time-travel adventure.
2) It Takes a Thief is not exactly root for the villain, as the main characters aren't really villains. They're more like Robin Hood: righting wrongs via means that sometimes skirt the law. 
3) if you're referring to Boys in Blue in this one, it's not pure comedic, and it's not necessarily a whodunit or dealing with a single crime. There may or may not be a storyline that runs through the entire book. It truly is slice-of-life, as in "follow the partners through a 'routine' shift." (See, that's why it's hard to categorize.  )


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

I wish there was a "weird" fantasy category or maybe "weird" as a subcategory on equal standing as fantasy, sci fi, etc. under the speculative fiction.  I feel the fantasy I write is weird, and I feel that there are some people out there looking for something a little unusual in their fantasy or spec fic.  For example, I love things like House of Leaves and The City and the City and 1800ish/industrial fantasy settings that are secondary world, not our world.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

LAST CALL

If you are in the list below, I plan to get this article completed tonight (hopefully). Thank you to the authors who have already messaged me with their information. Those who haven't yet, I will do my best to research, pick the best title out of your amazon publications for the blog post. If you haven't yet dropped me a line with your links, do so today 

So far I've titled the article: "Why Is Hollywood so... Derivative," and the book and genre listing is at the bottom with a call to readers to trying something their isn't a categorization for. If anyone has any thoughts they'd like to contribute around this theme please let me know.

*Updated List:*

*FICTION*


SciFi Fantasy _Paranormal Crime_ | Taitrina | ML-Larson | tknite

_Paranormal Noir_ or _Werewolf Noir_ | Domino Finn and AlbertB

_SHADE_ | Meaning: YA Paranormal Mystery | Marilyn Peake

MG Fantasy Adventure | Marilyn Peake

_Zombie Political Thriller_ | Marilyn Peake

Political Fantasy | Marilyn Peake

_Bizarro Fiction _| Phronk

_Mind-Bending_ Science Fiction | T. Ellery Hodges

_Psy-Fi | Psychological Science Fiction | T. Ellery Hodges_
_

Superhero Deconstruction | Superhero Reality | C. Rysalis

Fanstasy > Magical Realism | alawston


Urban SciFi > Comedic Thriller | Brian Olsen


Animal Fiction > Dog | N. Gemini Sassonm(?)

YA space opera | YA-SF | Callan


Fantasy> Sword and Para-Sorcery | Lisa Blackwood


Horror Subcategories | Non-YA Vampire > Mystery | Z Rider & Jennifer R P


20th century historical fiction> More Subcategories | Soulfulone

Elemental Shifters | Holly A Hook

Weird Epic Fantasy | Maybe Fringe Fantasy(?) | jackconnerbooks
_


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

TElleryHodges said:


> LAST CALL
> 
> If you are in the list below, I plan to get this article completed tonight (hopefully). Thank you to the authors who have already messaged me with their information. Those who haven't yet, I will do my best to research, pick the best title out of your amazon publications for the blog post. If you haven't yet dropped me a line with your links, do so today


Ack! I somehow didn't realize you're going to pick titles for your blog post. I am SO close to having a readable (professionally edited) start to my story, but it's going to take a few more days. I'd literally sink into the floor with shame if anyone read the current version of my serial and assumed that's the content I'm going to publish as ebooks. Could I maybe send you the link in a few days, when at least the first few chapters have been edited?

That said, I think 'dark' should be part of my genre description. How about 'Dark superhero realism'?


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

There are a number of books that can't go into the Romance category because they don't follow the tropes. I wish the category "Love Story" was available. I also have an issue with Paranormal Romance. I'm currently working on what I consider a paranormal romance, but there are no werewolves or tentacled creatures. The romance is between a normal man and woman, but the story is definitely paranormal. And trying to sub-categorize young adult or college age for better description seems impossible unless you're a keyword expert.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

C. Rysalis said:


> Ack! I somehow didn't realize you're going to pick titles for your blog post. I am SO close to having a readable (professionally edited) start to my story, but it's going to take a few more days. I'd literally sink into the floor with shame if anyone read the current version of my serial and assumed that's the content I'm going to publish as ebooks. Could I maybe send you the link in a few days, when at least the first few chapters have been edited?
> 
> That said, I think 'dark' should be part of my genre description. How about 'Dark superhero realism'?


Hi C,

Sure no problem. The provided list is going to get cleaned up when I get time to put all the links and pictures together. So if anyone on there doesn't have any titles, they'll be pulled out of mention. I can add you later, but I don't know how long the post will be noticeable. It'll depend on things like shares/retweets/likes.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Okay. I'll PM you the serial link and hope my editor finishes at least the first arc in time. It sounds like an opportunity I wouldn't want to let pass, though I'd like to request a disclaimer about the in-progress editing!

Thank you for your effort in giving us oddballs a voice.


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## cvwriter (May 16, 2011)

My novel Sapphire Reign is a Supernatural Mystery Thriller. All my books are weird and genre-packed, which is why I have no agent ... and crappy sales.


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## chrisanthropic (May 28, 2011)

I agree about the comments regarding the lack of horror subcats as well as a 'weird fiction' category.

For us, the lack of a 'slice-of-life' category has been a challenge since my wife mostly writes slice-of-life fantasy.

Great idea for a blog post, look forward to reading it.


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## RuthNestvold (Jan 4, 2012)

I wish there were a time travel category outside of science fiction and romance. _Chameleon in a Mirror_ has a romance subplot, but it doesn't end HEA, and if I put it under romance, I might make a lot of romance readers Very Angry. But it's even less science fiction, since the time travel is wholly fantasy.

What it is: fantasy time travel with lots of literary history thrown in. It's an homage to my idol (and my protag's) Aphra Behn. 

I have a few others where I really don't where they go. Somebody said upstream that there's a category for magic realism? My Tales From Far Beyond North stories go in that direction, but I never found a category for anything like that.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

RuthNestvold said:


> I wish there were a time travel category outside of science fiction and romance. _Chameleon in a Mirror_ has a romance subplot, but it doesn't end HEA, and if I put it under romance, I might make a lot of romance readers Very Angry. But it's even less science fiction, since the time travel is wholly fantasy.
> 
> What it is: fantasy time travel with lots of literary history thrown in. It's an homage to my idol (and my protag's) Aphra Behn.
> 
> I have a few others where I really don't where they go. Somebody said upstream that there's a category for magic realism? My Tales From Far Beyond North stories go in that direction, but I never found a category for anything like that.


I know what you mean. My Timekeepers books are only time-travel insofar as the MCs get thrown into the past. After that it's strictly historical action/adventure. Other than the the fact that they do go into the past, there are no fantasy elements involved. So it's not really fantasy, it's more historical.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Jena H said:


> I know what you mean. My Timekeepers books are only time-travel insofar as the MCs get thrown into the past. After that it's strictly historical action/adventure. Other than the the fact that they do go into the past, there are no fantasy elements involved. So it's not really fantasy, it's more historical.


Maybe more 'trapped in the past' than 'time travel' ?


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## lynnemurray (May 19, 2011)

Shout out to Ruth Nestvold (major fan of Looking Through Lace and its sequel--afraid to lose email by looking up title, but I loved both!)  

My most recent book, Gravitas: Valkyrie in the Forbidden Zone, seems to cross-genres (see below).

  Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal & Urban
    Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alien Invasion
    Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > First Contact
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal & Urban
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > First Contact

Gravitas has elements of myths and First Contact. I think I don't dare say it has humor or satire. I learned my lesson in a writer's critique group from the woman who kept asking, "I don't get it, is that a joke?" Now I say "fun and fast-moving" --just keep 'em reading, folks, if you don't laugh, just keep your eye on the man with the gun coming through the door!

And don't get me started on how to say "Strong Woman Protagonist" without scaring everyone. There's sex in Gravitas (the heroine is carrying a possible overdose of a super-strong aphrodisiac, and she is required to have at least three husbands) but it's not "hot" in the sense of dudes with washboard abs on the cover erotic....sigh! It could be worse, Bride of the Living Dead sounds like it should have zombies in it, but it's about a monster-movie-loving bride trapped in a perfect wedding micromanaged by her perfectionist sister. One of these days maybe I'll be able to find a premade cover that will tickle that would-be reader! 

  
How to fall between genres without falling through the cracks!


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:


> Maybe more 'trapped in the past' than 'time travel' ?


That works. 



lynnemurray said:


> My most recent book, Gravitas: Valkyrie in the Forbidden Zone, seems to cross-genres (see below).
> 
> Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal & Urban
> Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alien Invasion
> ...


Too bad we can't choose these subcats to begin with and not have to jump through major hoops to get there.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Hi All,

I tried, but its been a lot of work pulling in and organizing all the genre's, links, and author info as well as getting some other projects underway.  I'll likely get this out tomorrow though, so if you haven't dropped me a PM with you whatever details you specifically want posted, you still have a chance. 

Also, for those that had them I tried to pull a few positive review excerpts to go under the book covers. Thanks again, I'll post the article soon.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Hi All,

I finished up the post this evening. You can find it here:
http://telleryhodges.com/2015/03/19/why-is-hollywood-so-derivative-what-can-we-do-about-it/


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I finished up the post this evening. You can find it here:
> http://telleryhodges.com/2015/03/19/why-is-hollywood-so-derivative-what-can-we-do-about-it/


Awesome article! Thanks so much! I'm delighted to have one of my books mentioned.


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## Brian Olsen (Jan 13, 2013)

TElleryHodges said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I finished up the post this evening. You can find it here:
> http://telleryhodges.com/2015/03/19/why-is-hollywood-so-derivative-what-can-we-do-about-it/


Great post! I've tweeted, blogged, facebooked and tumbled it.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Marilyn Peake said:


> Awesome article! Thanks so much! I'm delighted to have one of my books mentioned.


Glad you liked it! Hope if brings you some traffic


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

Brian Olsen said:


> Great post! I've tweeted, blogged, facebooked and tumbled it.


Thanks man! I'm hoping if all the other author's listed do the same that everyone in the article might see some increase in traffic.


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## C. Michael Wells (Feb 26, 2014)

TElleryHodges said:


> Couldn't agree more, every time I look at the top 100 in the superhero category I have to do a double check that I didn't somehow hit werewolf erotica. Whenever I've manage to slip into the top 100 after a giveaway I find my book surrounded by a dozen photos that are all slight variations of an angle on men's abs.


I think the reason is because as a whole the superhero genre is small, so a lot of authors misrepresent their book into superhero category and then it is much easier to rank in the top 100 of a category. I used to regularly brouse the superhero lists but I've taken it off my searches cause you have to go down a few pages to find actual superhero books.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I finished up the post this evening. You can find it here:
> http://telleryhodges.com/2015/03/19/why-is-hollywood-so-derivative-what-can-we-do-about-it/


I'm a bit behind, but thanks for linking my stories. I shared it today on Google+ and TSU.


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## TElleryHodges (Jan 9, 2015)

I don't know how long after this kboards post was up that it happened, but I noticed this morning that Kindle now has a *'Magical Realism'* category. I thought it worth mentioning since some of the responses made note of wishing said sub-category was an option.

In other news, I heard a simple term the other day from another author at _NorWesCon _--Jolene Loraine author of Night Hawk-- who was having the same trouble categorizing her work as myself. She said that she wished Amazon had a *Science Fantasy* category. I agreed that this was the name I had been looking for as well. As my stuff is grounded in science/logic but deals with subject matter that is more thought of as fantasy's wheel house.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

TElleryHodges said:


> I don't know how long after this kboards post was up that it happened, but I noticed this morning that Kindle now has a *'Magical Realism'* category. I thought it worth mentioning since some of the responses made note of wishing said sub-category was an option.


Interesting. I wonder - how do books get added to that category? By adding magical realism to the keywords?


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

TElleryHodges said:


> I don't know how long after this kboards post was up that it happened, but I noticed this morning that Kindle now has a *'Magical Realism'* category. I thought it worth mentioning since some of the responses made note of wishing said sub-category was an option.
> 
> In other news, I heard a simple term the other day from another author at _NorWesCon _--Jolene Loraine author of Night Hawk-- who was having the same trouble categorizing her work as myself. She said that she wished Amazon had a *Science Fantasy* category. I agreed that this was the name I had been looking for as well. As my stuff is grounded in science/logic but deals with subject matter that is more thought of as fantasy's wheel house.


Magical realism.... I like that.


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## RuthNestvold (Jan 4, 2012)

Cool, that's good to know about Magic Realism! I'll have to see if I can get into it with my stories.



lynnemurray said:


> Shout out to Ruth Nestvold (major fan of Looking Through Lace and its sequel--afraid to lose email by looking up title, but I loved both!)


Aw, thanks.


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