# Amazon 'force' participation in new 'Popular Highlights' feature?



## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

I've been reading up on Amazon.com about the new features in the 2.5 upgrade, including the popular highlight feature. (Which frankly I feel is a total waste of development time which could have been better used on other features but that's beside the point of my post!) Apparently it underlines in dotted lines passages in your books where at least three other users have highlighted the same passage. It's possible to turn this feature off if you don't want to see it. So far so good. But on the other side of the coin, where you've highlighted stuff yourself they say this:-

If you don't want the passages you highlight in your books added to the aggregated Popular Highlights data, you have the option to turn off Annotations Backup on your Kindle.

Note: If you turn off Annotations Backup and then delete the book from your Kindle or lose or break your Kindle then you won't be able to recover your notes and highlights. _*Your last page read also won't synchronize between Kindle devices and applications*._

Essentially this means that those of us who use more than one device and therefore require the sync feature have no choice but to participate in this scheme and have our annotations broadcast to the masses. I don't care how anonymous it is, I'd like the option to choose. 

I'm sometimes accused of being overly sensitive about privacy issues - am I over-reacting again?


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## Morpheus Phreak (May 6, 2009)

I'd say this is probably an overreaction, but not as severe of one as the person I see reacting to this over on the actual Amazon forums.

There's nothing personally identifiable being sent with this info. It's just a statistical thing. It show WHAT is being highlighted, but not WHO is doing the highlighting.

Personally I'd find it interesting to see if people like the same parts of books that I like


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Morpheus Phreak said:


> I'd say this is probably an overreaction, but not as severe of one as the person I see reacting to this over on the actual Amazon forums.


LOL you're probably right *sigh* but I do find this sort of thing so _irritating_. Thankfully I can at least turn off the feature so I don't have to see random passages underlined. I'm sure there _will_ be people who want to see what of others have highlighted, but I just don't get it. I don't get the new Facebook/Twitter feature either. I don't think my friends on Twitter would be too impressed if I kept spamming them with passages from my books! I just want to _read_ - hence my getting a Kindle and not an iPad or something else that does all sorts and just happens to have an e-reader app.


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## Morpheus Phreak (May 6, 2009)

I don't have 2.5 yet so I can't vouch for this, but I think it's more granular than you're thinking.

For instance I can have the features enabled, but tell it not to show those underlines if I don't want to see them.

Same with Facebook & Twitter stuff...it's granular. It won't just auto-tweet stuff without me telling it to.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Morpheus Phreak said:


> I don't have 2.5 yet so I can't vouch for this, but I think it's more granular than you're thinking.
> 
> For instance I can have the features enabled, but tell it not to show those underlines if I don't want to see them.
> 
> Same with Facebook & Twitter stuff...it's granular. It won't just auto-tweet stuff without me telling it to.


Yes, you're right - I can turn off the features so I don't have to see what everyone else has highlighted, nor will I have to Tweet if I don't want to. But I _will_ have to auto send my annotations (albeit anonymously) because if I swtich _that_ off, then I can't sync between devices. I guess I will just have to accept and be happy that it is at least anonymous. It's just the principle of the thing really.

I just wish they'd spent all the development time and resources they must have put into these features on getting the Collections / organisation system perfect, as that's the feature that 99% of Kindlers are agreed on as being necessary.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

I don't think there is anything that identifies you with the notations. It sounds to me like they are just gathering statistics from information they already save and attempting to use something creative. A problem I see is for people who do reviews, either professionally or seriously as a hobby. They may end up haivng their ideas out there before they are ready to have them "published" thereby risking having their wording sampled.  I don't think it effects private documents because Amazon doesn't save annotations on those anyways.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

On another forum, someone compared it to the lists of most popular books for a week, month, etc. on Amazon. When you buy a book, it boosts the ranking of the book - you can see how many people bought the book. But no one can tell WHO bought those books. There's no way to opt out of that when you buy a DTB on Amazon - the fact that you bought it will count towards the numbers of how many people bought that book. But no one gets upset about that. It's the same thing.

Or any time you search on Google, what words you search on are saved and you can see a list of the most popular searches: http://www.google.com/trends

But no one knows what YOU searched on - but what you did contributes to that list. Not a big deal to me.


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## LisaW. (Jun 1, 2009)

It doesn't really matter to me. I doubt other people highlight what I do anyway; I tend to highlight the beginnings of sections that I might want to browse through quickly when I wanted to skim a book instead of re-reading it. If other people see that, I don't care.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I do not have my annotations backing up, yet all of my devices sync to the last page. I'm not sure what Amazon stated there is accurate.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Me being me, I hate this new "feature" with a passion.  Yes, I know there's no personal data being uploaded.  It's still no one's d**n business what I choose or don't choose to highlight, and I really don't care what anyone else is highlighting.  I came across this nonsense when playing with a somewhat popular book on the iPhone Kindle app yesterday, and by the second time I saw that stupid, distracting underline while reading, I was ready to scream.  I had to stop reading and go figure out how to turn this asinine excuse for a "feature" off so I didn't have to look at it.  It had better be easy to turn off on the Kindle itself whenever the update goes through.

I'm hoping there's just enough of a fuss made over this that Amazon adds a basic off switch to participating both with this and their new "daily review" function on the kindle.amazon.com site.  I realize that some people may find these tools attractive, but those who don't should be able to disable them without disabling key pieces of their devices as well.


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

I must reluctantly agree with those that say that my highlights and notes aren't identified as mine (to the public), so there is some anonymity there. Plus, I seriously doubt that many people are going to be studying what others highlight and note; that sounds about as fascinating as watching grass grow.

Still, I don't like it because it's yet another invasion of privacy. It feels like Big Brother is breathing down my neck.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> I'm hoping there's just enough of a fuss made over this that Amazon adds a basic off switch to participating both with this and their new "daily review" function on the kindle.amazon.com site. I realize that some people may find these tools attractive, but those who don't should be able to disable them without disabling key pieces of their devices as well.


That is a good idea!


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

I decided to put the font hack back on and leave it on until I decide if I want to see others highlighting while I read or not. I think I'll leave the font hack on, and hope they can't upgrade over it until enough people have used it (2.5) for me to decide if it would annoy me or not.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

pidgeon92 said:


> I do not have my annotations backing up, yet all of my devices sync to the last page. I'm not sure what Amazon stated there is accurate.


Well that's very interesting - something to test out when I get the update. It's hard to work out just what they mean by "annotations". Is it just highlights or does it include bookmarks and notes? I use the note feature to tag at the moment. If the new Collections feature means I don't need to do that, I'll be happy to switch it off, so long as I can still sync to last page. But will the "annotations" backup also include which collections a book belongs to though? I can see this is something that's going to require some experimenting!


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## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

If you are interested in seeing what the Popular Highlight feature looks like on the Amazon website, here is a link.

http://kindle.amazon.com/popular_highlights/books_all

It is just bolded text, no notes.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

sherylb said:


> If you are interested in seeing what the Popular Highlight feature looks like on the Amazon website, here is a link.
> 
> http://kindle.amazon.com/popular_highlights/books_all
> 
> It is just bolded text, no notes.


Well, I looked at the website link you provided and that would drive me crazy all the different text boldness and it does look like it has blue underlines. I think I'll keep the font hack on until I know more and hope they can't override it.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

The feature doesn't push any highlights to your device, so other peoples' highlights don't show up in the content you're reading on your Kindle. Nor are notes recorded.

All the feature does is allow you to see which passages have been highlighted and by how many people on amazon's website.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

DenverRalphy said:


> The feature doesn't push any highlights to your device, so other peoples' highlights don't show up in the content you're reading on your Kindle. Nor are notes recorded.
> 
> All the feature does is allow you to see which passages have been highlighted and by how many people on amazon's website.


Ohh.... it sounded from posts that it looked on the kindle the way it did on the link. Well, good. That sounds so much more enjoyable. So if I wanted to see what others had I could go to the website, and my kindle view wouldn't change. Much better, thanks for clearing it up for me.


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

It doesn't bother me at all. While it's not something I would have thought to ask for, it's nothing I'm against. I think it's a neat way of seeing how others use their highlighting feature and what is the most popularly highlighted book as well as passage. I think of it as just another way to connect with readers.


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## AppleBlossom (Jul 9, 2009)

I can see some benefit of this in textbooks.  It could be useful to students, as they might be clued in to some important text that they may have glazed over.  As long as there is no privacy issue (which I don't see there being any), it's all good.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

DenverRalphy said:


> The feature doesn't push any highlights to your device, so other peoples' highlights don't show up in the content you're reading on your Kindle. Nor are notes recorded.
> 
> All the feature does is allow you to see which passages have been highlighted and by how many people on amazon's website.


Not sure if it shows on the Kindle post 2.5 update or not. It certainly shows on the iPhone within books, so I anticipate it will indeed be pushed to the Kindle with the new operating system updates.

Again, all I have to say is that they'd better get an off switch in place for participating in this, and on the "daily review" they've added to kindle.amazon.com. There's no earthly reason I can think of that we should be *required* to use any given feature.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> Not sure if it shows on the Kindle post 2.5 update or not. It certainly shows on the iPhone within books, so I anticipate it will indeed be pushed to the Kindle with the new operating system updates.


Does anyone who has the 2.5 know if other peoples highlights show on the kindle? Does it show up on your kindle while your reading? Either underlined or bolded or anything? I would find this very distracting and I'd like to know if someone has the new update and could answer the question I'd really appreciate it.


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## Malweth (Oct 18, 2009)

sherylb said:


> If you are interested in seeing what the Popular Highlight feature looks like on the Amazon website, here is a link.
> 
> http://kindle.amazon.com/popular_highlights/books_all
> 
> It is just bolded text, no notes.


I like that page! My favorite, from "Kindle Shortcuts, Hidden Features, ..." by Aaron Steinhardt PhD:



> To create a highlight: use the 5-way controller to highlight the content you want to clip and then press the 5-way to save your selection.


HA.

Now I want a Kindle 2 (my K1 seems very durable, though). And I fully agree... those paranoid about sharing their highlights should really stay away from *anything* with a network.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

I'm not worried about mine showing up on other peoples. I just don't want to try and read my books, on my kindle while looking at others highlights. And I don't want to have to pick between that and syncing between devices. I've read posts about it and some say it shows up on the actual kindle, some say no. I just was wondering if anyone who has the update could say for certain. BTW, Malweth, you weren't necessarily taking to me, just wanted to clarify my question.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

LauraB said:


> Does anyone who has the 2.5 know if other peoples highlights show on the kindle? Does it show up on your kindle while your reading? Either underlined or bolded or anything? I would find this very distracting and I'd like to know if someone has the new update and could answer the question I'd really appreciate it.


On Amazon it says:-

 Popular highlights are marked with a grey dashed underline in your reading.

and then later it says:-

To turn Popular Highlights on and off:
Navigate to Kindle's Home screen and press the Menu button. 
Select "Settings" from the Home screen menu. 
Select the desired option next to "Popular Highlights." 


So yes, it does show up but you can turn it off if you want to.


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## Ephany (Mar 9, 2009)

Is there a way to turn off this highlighting feature on other devices like an Itouch? I was reading on mine yesterday for the first time since this new 'feature' was implemented and I really, really, really hate it. I turned it off on my Kindle, but would love to be able to turn it off on my Itouch also. Thanks!


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## Annalog (Dec 28, 2008)

I had disabled Annotation Backup on my K2 early last year because I live where WN is 1X and I left WN off most of the time. When DH got a DX, I found that it was possible for me to copy .mbp files from my K2 to his DX for books purchased from Amazon. (I suspect that the same is true of .tan files but have not tested them.) This turned out to be the equivalent of syncing between devices but possible to do for individual books. Also, since I have many books not from Amazon, I have been backing up my documents on a periodic basis. That way I have been able to restore notes and highlights for accidentally deleted books.

I have since enabled Annotation Backup but continue to maintain my own backups.


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## webhill (Feb 12, 2009)

DenverRalphy said:


> The feature doesn't push any highlights to your device, so other peoples' highlights don't show up in the content you're reading on your Kindle. Nor are notes recorded.
> 
> All the feature does is allow you to see which passages have been highlighted and by how many people on amazon's website.


Um.... on my devices (iphone, ipad) the community highlights passages do in fact show up on the device! My K2 doesn't have the update yet so don't know what it's going to do, but it's definitely showing up in my books when i read with a Kindle app on a device other than a kindle.


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## durphy (Nov 5, 2008)

Morpheus Phreak said:


> I don't have 2.5 yet so I can't vouch for this, but I think it's more granular than you're thinking.
> 
> For instance I can have the features enabled, but tell it not to show those underlines if I don't want to see them.
> 
> Same with Facebook & Twitter stuff...it's granular. It won't just auto-tweet stuff without me telling it to.


Can someone please tell me how to turn off the underlines that appear in my book from other peoples' notes? I always hated this about the used books I'd buy in college. They're distracting.

** I turned off Popular Highlights in my Settings, but they are still showing up. Maybe I have to undo the connection to Twitter?
*** I think I got it. I had to turn off Annotations Backup


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

durphy said:


> Can someone please tell me how to turn off the underlines that appear in my book from other peoples' notes? I always hated this about the used books I'd buy in college. They're distracting.
> 
> ** I turned off Popular Highlights in my Settings, but they are still showing up. Maybe I have to undo the connection to Twitter?


Turning off the popular highlights option in settings should be all you need to do. I would suggest restarting your Kindle and checking again.


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

IMO I shouldn't have to turn OFF community highlights/underlining/freaking marks in my books -- they should be defaulted to OFF and I should have to turn them on if I want them (why I'd want them is beyond me -- I don't need mass approval to make sure I like what I like).  This alone is enough to make me ditch my Kindle.  I LOATHE books with marks/highlights in them -- I won't buy a used one with marks and I don't plan on buying new ones that come with marks of any sort. Amazon is out of their minds with this feature.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> IMO I shouldn't have to turn OFF community highlights/underlining/freaking marks in my books -- they should be defaulted to OFF and I should have to turn them on if I want them (why I'd want them is beyond me -- I don't need mass approval to make sure I like what I like). This alone is enough to make me ditch my Kindle. I LOATHE books with marks/highlights in them -- I won't buy a used one with marks and I don't plan on buying news ones that come with marks of any sort. Amazon is out of their minds with this feature.


The copy of the book you buy isn't actually marked in any way, it just simply lets you know if anyone else has marked theirs. I don't want to see these highlights either, but it takes just a few seconds to turn the feature off. After that you'll never know whether any of the books you read have been highlighted by others - it won't affect you at all. Why would you ditch your Kindle for something that can be fixed in a couple of seconds?


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

Linjeakel said:


> The copy of the book you buy isn't actually marked in any way, it just simply lets you know if anyone else has marked theirs. I don't want to see these highlights either, but it takes just a few seconds to turn the feature off. After that you'll never know whether any of the books you read have been highlighted by others - it won't affect you at all. Why would you ditch your Kindle for something that can be fixed in a couple of seconds?


let's see: Amazon is defaulting to a position that I not only find annoying, but that I consider to be antithetical to actually reading/enjoying a book. Their features/decisions seem to be geared toward making reading a book a group activity -- if I wanted that I'd still be in first grade and reading in a circle. Couple those decisions/features with the books they sold then took back last year -- and it's obvious that the Amazon Kindle is moving away from being an electronic reading device and moving toward being little more than an instrument of popular profit (i.e. hello Twitter -- why are you on my Kindle? I bought a Kindle, not a Twittle). I might as well ditch the Kindle and get an iPad -- at least that way the extra fluff will be in color and I'll get to avoid the future bad decisions made by Amazon... which now seem highly probable to occur with some frequency.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> let's see: Amazon is defaulting to a position that I not only find annoying, but that I consider to be antithetical to actually reading/enjoying a book. Their features/decisions seem to be geared toward making reading a book a group activity -- if I wanted that I'd still be in first grade and reading in a circle. Couple those decisions/features with the books they sold then took back last year -- and it's obvious that the Amazon Kindle is moving away from being an electronic reading device and moving toward being little more than an instrument of popular profit (i.e. hello Twitter -- why are you on my Kindle? I bought a Kindle, not a Twittle). I might as well ditch the Kindle and get an iPad -- at least that way the extra fluff will be in color and I'll get to avoid the future bad decisions made by Amazon... which now seem highly probable to occur with some frequency.


I surrender - enjoy your iPad.


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

Linjeakel said:


> I surrender - enjoy your iPad.


Actually, I probably won't get one of those either... I'll end up tossing the Kindle in the over-rated junk corner and go back to the way too many books I have here at home (none of which have underlines and none of which are electronically tracked in any way).


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Karma Kindle said:


> let's see: Amazon is defaulting to a position that I not only find annoying, but that I consider to be antithetical to actually reading/enjoying a book. Their features/decisions seem to be geared toward making reading a book a group activity -- if I wanted that I'd still be in first grade and reading in a circle. Couple those decisions/features with the books they sold then took back last year -- and it's obvious that the Amazon Kindle is moving away from being an electronic reading device and moving toward being little more than an instrument of popular profit (i.e. hello Twitter -- why are you on my Kindle? I bought a Kindle, not a Twittle). I might as well ditch the Kindle and get an iPad -- at least that way the extra fluff will be in color and I'll get to avoid the future bad decisions made by Amazon... which now seem highly probable to occur with some frequency.


Turn it down a notch.

If you don't like seeing other people's highlights, turn it off. If you don't want to use the social networks part, then don't set it up. Personally, I have no use for either function, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about something over which I have control.

I'm sure there are some who will use the functions - and hurray for them - but its not like amazon is forcing you to share your highlights with your friends.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

Linjeakel said:


> I've been reading up on Amazon.com about the new features in the 2.5 upgrade, including the popular highlight feature. (Which frankly I feel is a total waste of development time which could have been better used on other features but that's beside the point of my post!) Apparently it underlines in dotted lines passages in your books where at least three other users have highlighted the same passage. It's possible to turn this feature off if you don't want to see it. So far so good. But on the other side of the coin, where you've highlighted stuff yourself they say this:-
> 
> If you don't want the passages you highlight in your books added to the aggregated Popular Highlights data, you have the option to turn off Annotations Backup on your Kindle.
> 
> ...


Not in my opinion. I absolutely hate when anything I do is shared in any way shape or form without my express consent.

I've written to amazon several times on this issue and I am considering filling a complaint with the NYS Attorney General. They should give us a choice as to whether or not we want to share. By forcing us to turn off the back-up feature as a way to prevent sharing, they have, in effect, REMOVED a valuable feature.

By the way... anything you highlighted ever is shared. The 2.5 update only lets you see what others have highlighted on your kindle. Even without the update, your highlights are shared. You can see everything at kindle.amazon.com.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Magenta said:


> Not in my opinion. I absolutely hate when anything I do is shared in any way shape or form without my express consent.
> 
> I've written to amazon several times on this issue and I am considering filling a complaint with the NYS Attorney General. They should give us a choice as to whether or not we want to share. By forcing us to turn off the back-up feature as a way to prevent sharing, they have, in effect, REMOVED a valuable feature.
> 
> By the way... anything you highlighted ever is shared. The 2.5 update only lets you see what others have highlighted on your kindle. Even without the update, your highlights are shared. You can see everything at kindle.amazon.com.


I have changed my opinion somewhat on this since I made the original post. I always knew that Amazon backed up my annotations and I was happy for them to do that - I have two Kindles and like to sync between the two. My knee-jerk reaction to the new feature made me concerned that _everyone else_ would get to see not only my highlights, but also, more worryingly, my notes and that they would _know they were mine_. In reality, although I can access my notes online at kindle.amazon.com, no-one else can and if I make highlights on a book that gets onto the popular highlights list, no-one will know I was one of the people who highlighted it, or indeed that I even have the book.

To a large extent, finding all that out, has dealt with my major concerns, although I can understand that the principle of being able to refuse consent without losing an important feature is one that Amazon should consider more closely.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

Linjeakel said:


> I have changed my opinion somewhat on this since I made the original post. I always knew that Amazon backed up my annotations and I was happy for them to do that - I have two Kindles and like to sync between the two. My knee-jerk reaction to the new feature made me concerned that _everyone else_ would get to see not only my highlights, but also, more worryingly, my notes and that they would _know they were mine_. In reality, although I can access my notes online at kindle.amazon.com, no-one else can and if I make highlights on a book that gets onto the popular highlights list, no-one will know I was one of the people who highlighted it, or indeed that I even have the book.
> 
> To a large extent, finding all that out, has dealt with my major concerns, although I can understand that the principle of being able to refuse consent without losing an important feature is one that Amazon should consider more closely.


....and you have to trust that your anonymity will never be broken due to someone hacking their system. THAT I do not trust.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Magenta said:


> ....and you have to trust that your anonymity will never be broken due to someone hacking their system. THAT I do not trust.


It's true, that can and does happen. But I suspect someone going to all that trouble will be looking for something a little more interesting and profitable than anything I might have written. It's a juggling act - the benefits of leaving it switched on against the possible consequences of a breach of privacy. On balance, I think I'll leave mine switched on. (At least I don't have to see everyone else's highlights).


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## mysticalinc (Jan 1, 2010)

LisaW. said:


> It doesn't really matter to me. I doubt other people highlight what I do anyway; I tend to highlight the beginnings of sections that I might want to browse through quickly when I wanted to skim a book instead of re-reading it. If other people see that, I don't care.


What about those of us who don't want to see what you (or anyone) has highlighted? I certainly do not want, while reading a book, to see what someone else might find 'significant', 'cute', or 'profound'. I prefer to make my own decisions without any input while reading the book. It's like buying a used textbook and having to wade through all the yellowed points that another found relevant -- they're most likely not what I would find useful.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

mysticalinc said:


> What about those of us who don't want to see what you (or anyone) has highlighted? I certainly do not want, while reading a book, to see what someone else might find 'significant', 'cute', or 'profound'. I prefer to make my own decisions without any input while reading the book. It's like buying a used textbook and having to wade through all the yellowed points that another found relevant -- they're most likely not what I would find useful.


Go to your settings and turn the feature off - it doesn't affect anything else or disable any other feature. It takes a few seconds and your problem is solved - you won't see anyone else's highlights.


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

And you can turn off seeing OTHER people's highlights on YOUR Kindle, without turning off the feature that *anonymously* shares YOUR highlights (but *not* notes) with OTHER people, which is also the same feature that backs up your highlights/notes/last-place-read info with Amazon.  So at least the two features are separated.


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## jj2339 (Jan 18, 2010)

So, while i found it to be annoying, i just turned it off.

Why on earth is everyone so bent out of shape over what you've underlined being counted towards a total tally? It's not like it's sharing your credit card #, your address, your phone #, your social security #, your bra size, or your waistband size.

Yea, it's annoying, but it's not "ZOMG, I HATE AMAZON AND WILL NEVER USE THIS PIECE OF CRAP KINDLE AGAIN BECAUSE SOMEBODY KNOWS THAT I FOUND THE FIRST SENTENCE IN THIS PARAGRAPH IN A MURDER MYSTERY NOVEL INTERESTING!!!! ZOMG, I HATE AMAZON!!!!!!!!"

Chill


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> Turn it down a notch.
> 
> If you don't like seeing other people's highlights, turn it off. If you don't want to use the social networks part, then don't set it up. Personally, I have no use for either function, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about something over which I have control.
> 
> I'm sure there are some who will use the functions - and hurray for them - but its not like amazon is forcing you to share your highlights with your friends.





jj2339 said:


> So, while i found it to be annoying, i just turned it off.
> 
> Why on earth is everyone so bent out of shape over what you've underlined being counted towards a total tally? It's not like it's sharing your credit card #, your address, your phone #, your social security #, your bra size, or your waistband size.
> 
> ...


There are those who are pro censorship and third party control and those who are against it. We can see each other from both sides of the fence. The mere fact that you feel it's okay to tell me or anyone else to "turn it down" or "chill" tells me that you're more complacent than I with third party control and interference (not to mention rude). Complacency scares me. IMO reading a book should be a private pleasure -- one that allows the reader to escape and immerse themselves into another world. That private and solitary journey shouldn't be invaded until the reader chooses, not by default. Amazon's gleeful willingness to invade by default underlines a policy that is designed to erode the magic of reading in favor of group dynamics for a dollar. That is just sad. How far that policy might go in its implementation is even scarier.

If you walked into a brick and mortar bookstore and each book you looked at had highlights to guide your experience with a book and you were only provided a nice, clean copy by asking, what would you think of the store's policy and their management?


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## jj2339 (Jan 18, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> There are those who are pro censorship and third party control and those who are against it. We can see each other from both sides of the fence. The mere fact that you feel it's okay to tell me or anyone else to "turn it down" or "chill" tells me that you're more complacent than I with third party control and interference (not to mention rude). Complacency scares me. IMO reading a book should be a private pleasure -- one that allows the reader to escape and immerse themselves into another world. That private and solitary journey shouldn't be invaded until the reader chooses, not by default. Amazon's gleeful willingness to invade by default underlines a policy that is designed to erode the magic of reading in favor of group dynamics for a dollar. That is just sad. How far that policy might go in its implementation is even scarier.
> 
> If you walked into a brick and mortar bookstore and each book you looked at had highlights to guide your experience with a book and you were only provided a nice, clean copy by asking, what would you think of the store's policy and their management?


I would buy a copy that didn't have underlines. And frankly, the analogy of seeing books marked up in a store isn't exactly a close analogy, as you can't just flip a switch on a physical book and presto have all the markings vanish.

Look, i'm all for protecting privacy online. I don't share much on Facebook because I know there are privacy concerns there. But I'm not going to freak out because somebody knows I underlined something in a book, nor would i be bent out of shape that there are other underlines in a book, where the easy fix is to flip a selection in settings and have them go away.

Now, if Amazon didn't let me remove them, i'd be annoyed. But since they do, it's an easy fix, ergo, i'm not going to boycott Amazon, throw away my Kindle, or purchase something from Apple (which is even worse when it comes to forcing you into watching ads or other such stuff) beause of it.

Look, if this is such a major transgression for people, then get mad and rage about it. but frankly, it's something minor that can be changed with a flip of a switch, so don't get annoyed when people don't rise up in anger with you. Not trying to be nasty, and I hope it doesn't come across that way, as I know i've gotten mad about things before and vowed never to shop at a place before because of it. But to me this seems minor, there is an easy fix to remedy, so not sure why all the annoyance. And my 'chill' comment wasn't specified to you, so no need to take that personally either.

However i will add that just because i'm ok with underlines in a book that can be removed in no way means I am for censorship or third party control. That's a completel straw man argument, basically seting up that if you don't agree with me, you must be into totalitarian control by Amazon.


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

I think the new "Popular Highlights" feature is really, really stupid, and the jerk who probably got a promotion for thinking it up, is a total idiot and has no clue as to what we value in our Kindles.

But, that said, I suppose it really doesn't bother me. I haven't seen anybody else's underlining in any of my books (yet). If I do, I'll probably turn it off.


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## jj2339 (Jan 18, 2010)

CaroleC said:


> I think the new "Popular Highlights" feature is really, really stupid, and the jerk who probably got a promotion for thinking it up, is a total idiot and has no clue as to what we value in our Kindles.
> 
> But, that said, I suppose it really doesn't bother me. I haven't seen anybody else's underlining in any of my books (yet). If I do, I'll probably turn it off.


I agree, it is rather stupid. I found one last night in a book and thought it was stupid (as was the thing highlighted, as it wasn't even a complete sentence or idea). So I went to settings and turned off the option, and all is well with the world again!


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

CaroleC said:


> I think the new "Popular Highlights" feature is really, really stupid, and the jerk who probably got a promotion for thinking it up, is a total idiot and has no clue as to what we value in our Kindles.
> 
> But, that said, I suppose it really doesn't bother me. I haven't seen anybody else's underlining in any of my books (yet). If I do, I'll probably turn it off.


If it's that easy to turn OFF (and I don't disagree that it is easy), the it's just as easy to turn ON if you wish to join a group dynamic. My issue isn't with the ease or non-ease -- it's with the concept of the initial position. Any company that thinks the initial setting should be "share" rather than "privacy", scares me. Who knows how many other times they implement that position in other ways?


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## jj2339 (Jan 18, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> If it's that easy to turn OFF (and I don't disagree that it is easy), the it's just as easy to turn ON if you wish to join a group dynamic. My issue isn't with the ease or non-ease -- it's with the concept of the initial position. Any company that thinks the initial setting should be "share" rather than "privacy", scares me. Who knows how many other times they implement that position in other ways?


I do agree with you here. It's similar with alot of other things Facebook does, or itunes with genius, or other things. The default setting is set to favor the company. But it's hardly unique to Amazon.

It also reminds me a bit of what the cable company does when they offer "30 days free" with something, but you have to remember in 30 days to cancel it or you begin being charged for it.

And also, my comments above were not directed at you, it was more at some of the other extreme reactions above, for people saying they'd never use their kindle again. Kinda like the people who were going to buy an iPad because firmware 2.5 wasn't ready on time. Just such extreme reactions to such little things makes my head spin, i wish people got more upset about things that actually matter (oil in the gulf, starving people in Haiti, etc)


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

I noticed this in a book I was reading yesterday for the first time. At first I thought it was some weird shadowing and then I looked closer and realized what it was.

It actually didn't bother me, but, that may be because the parts that her highlighted were really good passages.  

Edited for horrendous typos.


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

Actually I am one of the people who may end up tossing their Kindle... but, I'm equally passionate about starving people in Haiti and providing them a means to climb out of poverty -- that's why I've been a huge proponent of artforhaitianchildren.org since its inception years before the earthquake.  They don't merely feed people -- they provide children education toward a career path that's sustainable and for which the children have a passion: art (haitian art is highly collectible -- and now more so that the earthquake has destroyed much of it -- right down to the national museum).


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

How about:

Form a group here, FaceBook, GoodReads, whatever. Get a bunch of people to buy the same popular Amazon book. All turn on the feature. Member #1 starts highlighting from the beginning to as far into the book as it will let him (or her). He lets the next person know how far he got, and that next person starts highlighting from that point to as far as he can go. Continue until the entire book is highlighted (or you run out of people).

That'll show them how silly this is.


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## Granvillen (Dec 12, 2009)

I got news for those that dislike or hate or detest the Popular Highlites.  If you go to the grocery store and pay be credit card, everything you buy is recorded.  That is why you get those special coupons for the stuff you either purchased today or last week.  Everything is recorded in every grocery store.  If you use Windows or a MAc, they record your history of surfing.  Worrying about your highlites is sooo minor.  Don't go to Macy's, Target, Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, etc.  Those of you who toss the KIndle and buy an IPad.  Guess what?  Get a grip.  BTW, even the Kindle Board is tracking your time on the Board, and the number of responses, etc.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Magenta said:


> ....and you have to trust that your anonymity will never be broken due to someone hacking their system. THAT I do not trust.


And you were also worried about that pre-2.5, right?



CaroleC said:


> I think the new "Popular Highlights" feature is really, really stupid, and the jerk who probably got a promotion for thinking it up, is a total idiot and has no clue as to what we value in our Kindles.


You don't speak for "we."



Karma Kindle said:


> If you walked into a brick and mortar bookstore and each book you looked at had highlights to guide your experience with a book and you were only provided a nice, clean copy by asking, what would you think of the store's policy and their management?


They're called used bookstores. I'm not even going to respond to your asinine censorship remarks.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

Granvillen said:


> I got news for those that dislike or hate or detest the Popular Highlites. If you go to the grocery store and pay be credit card, everything you buy is recorded. That is why you get those special coupons for the stuff you either purchased today or last week. Everything is recorded in every grocery store. If you use Windows or a MAc, they record your history of surfing. Worrying about your highlites is sooo minor. Don't go to Macy's, Target, Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, etc. Those of you who toss the KIndle and buy an IPad. Guess what? Get a grip. BTW, even the Kindle Board is tracking your time on the Board, and the number of responses, etc.


Yes, but recording the info is one thing.... sharing it with others is another. Of course we can't control everything, but I'd like to at least try to minimize what information is out there if at all possible. It's about choice.

If you have ever been a victim of identity theft you would understand. There are real and true data privacy concerns and telling those of us who are concerned to "get a grip" is quite insulting.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

marianner said:


> And you were also worried about that pre-2.5, right?


Before 2.5 I didn't know Amazon was sharing the information. I have to put some trust in that they will protect my account information, but when they start sharing some of that information with a larger database, it increases the risk of inappropriate use of my data.

I turned off all history tracking at amazon and I don't let them give me recommendations by marking every purchase to not be used as such. I don't want them tracking what I buy and then using that info to assume I might like something else. This is why I never rank anything at netflix.

These big companies are targets for hackers. Did not AT&T just have a security breach? What may appear as an innocuous anonymous database of highlighted book passages could easily be an entry vehicle for access to other data sources to an experienced hacker.

Did not anyone hear about how Google collected personal information from home wifi networks?

If you do not have concerns about personal data privacy, that's fine, but please stop faulting those of us who do.

p.s. When I did learn what was going on, I went to kindle.amazon.com and deleted everything. They not only list kindle books, but they added every book I ever purchased!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

The question is -- and I cannot answer it, only the Amazon Kindle development team can -- is whether there is any way to trace the accumulated highlights for a book back to those who originally did the highlighting. It would be very easy to code it so that you could not, and one would like to think that's how they would, but there is no guarantee without all the source code being made available to us for review. If it _was_ coded "correctly", then there would be no greater chance of an unauthorized 3rd party having access to your highlights and annotations than there was pre-2.5, by actually hacking into the database and/or file system where your annotations and highlights are archived -- just as a hacker could conceivably find out your Amazon purchasing history, email address, physical address, etc.

The real question to me is: why did they even bother spending the time and money to do this? Was there any sort of decent survey done of current Kindle users with a large outpouring of responses saying, "Gee, I'd sure love to be able to see what other people are highlighting in books I'm reading, while sharing my highlights with them. And, oh, while you're at it, how about sharing stuff I'm reading on Facebook and Twitter." I don't remember seeing any such suggestions in these forums. Instead it seems that the Kindle development team had meetings where they said, "Hey, how about we do such-and-such, it would be so cool! Oh, and I suppose we should cobble something together to implement the 'folders' all those pesky users are whining about...let's assign that to that intern, what's-his-name."


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Karma Kindle said:


> There are those who are pro censorship and third party control and those who are against it. We can see each other from both sides of the fence. The mere fact that you feel it's okay to tell me or anyone else to "turn it down" or "chill" tells me that you're more complacent than I with third party control and interference (not to mention rude). Complacency scares me. IMO reading a book should be a private pleasure -- one that allows the reader to escape and immerse themselves into another world. That private and solitary journey shouldn't be invaded until the reader chooses, not by default. Amazon's gleeful willingness to invade by default underlines a policy that is designed to erode the magic of reading in favor of group dynamics for a dollar. That is just sad. How far that policy might go in its implementation is even scarier.
> 
> If you walked into a brick and mortar bookstore and each book you looked at had highlights to guide your experience with a book and you were only provided a nice, clean copy by asking, what would you think of the store's policy and their management?


Maybe we're coming from completely different places. I never had to turn my popular highlights off after upgrading to 2.5.2. Mine defaulted to off. To a large degree, that's why I don't care that the feature is there - I didn't have to opt out. A determination regarding my opinions on privacy based solely on this feature would be incomplete at best.

Many companies have opt-out policies regarding information sharing and I don't have a problem opting out. I understand that some would prefer a world where these policies are all opt-in. That's something that probably requires legal changes on a federal level, and I support those efforts - just like I support net neutrality. In the meantime, I will continue to opt-out when necessary and move on with my life.

Speculation on where Amazon's privacy policy may go in the future is not high on my hit parade of worries. At the moment, I trust them with a credit card number ....


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## MINImum (Oct 15, 2009)

Regardless of whether or not we like the shared highlights feature, I don't think Amazon was being sneaky by turning it on by default. Rather, I think they turned it on so that we can experience it and see it in action. Otherwise, if it were turned off by default, most people probably wouldn't even know about it because how many people actually read the user's manuals unless they actually have a problem?

So I wouldn't classify this "forced" participation as particularly nefarious, I think they were just trying to be helpful. But you can't please everybody.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

NogDog said:


> The real question to me is: why did they even bother spending the time and money to do this? Was there any sort of decent survey done of current Kindle users with a large outpouring of responses saying, "Gee, I'd sure love to be able to see what other people are highlighting in books I'm reading, while sharing my highlights with them. And, oh, while you're at it, how about sharing stuff I'm reading on Facebook and Twitter." I don't remember seeing any such suggestions in these forums. Instead it seems that the Kindle development team had meetings where they said, "Hey, how about we do such-and-such, it would be so cool! Oh, and I suppose we should cobble something together to implement the 'folders' all those pesky users are whining about...let's assign that to that intern, what's-his-name."


This is _exactly_ what I have been thinking. Amazon are in danger of turning the Kindle into a Jack of all trades and a Master of none. They're so busy trying to keep up with all the other stuff out there and trying to cram in every available feature they can think of, that they've totally lost sight of what the Kindle is. It isn't a computer, or a phone, or an mp3 player or a gaming console or an internet browser, or an extension of twitter or facebook or somewhere to check your email - it's an _e-reader_ and they should be concentrating on the absolute basics and making it the best and most user friendly e-reader on the market.

Let the customer choose the fonts, the justification method, the text size on the home screen, how long before the sleep pics come on (and what the pics are) - give them tags and folders and sub folders, the ability to search within collections, to sort collections how they want, to buy content from where they want and in whatever format they want. I guarantee you, they wouldn't be able to make them fast enough to keep up with the sales.


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

CaroleC said:


> *I think* the new "Popular Highlights" feature is really, really stupid, and the jerk who probably got a promotion for thinking it up, is a total idiot and has no clue as to what we value in our Kindles.
> 
> But, that said, I suppose it really doesn't bother me. I haven't seen anybody else's underlining in any of my books (yet). If I do, I'll probably turn it off.





marianner said:


> You don't speak for "we."


Right. I speak for what I think (see above emphasized words). Or I thought I did, but apparently it wasn't read that way. My apologies on the entire post. Maybe I should delete it.

Your response has really thrown me off balance.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

marianner said:


> They're called used bookstores. I'm not even going to respond to your asinine censorship remarks.


WOW  , someone is fussy today! Name-calling and all.

CaroleC, don't delete your post. It is your opinion, and it is *just as welcome here* , IMHO, as is anyone else's.


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

LauraB said:


> WOW  , someone is fussy today! Name-calling and all.
> 
> CaroleC, don't delete your post. It is your opinion, and it is *just as welcome here* , IMHO, as is anyone else's.


Name-calling is just an ineffectual person's attempt to control another person. I'm not sure it works beyond third grade. At least it doesn't work with me. But I have learned today in this forum that if you don't suck up to popular opinion you'll 1) get told to shut up and when that falls 2) you'll be called names. What's next, water balloons?


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> Name-calling is just an ineffectual person's attempt to control another person. I'm not sure it works beyond third grade. At least it doesn't work with me. But I have learned today in this forum that if you don't suck up to popular opinion you'll 1) get told to shut up and when that falls 2) you'll be called names. What's next, water balloons?


Emotions are running high here on KB in the last few days and I've had one or two heated discussions with various other members, on various threads and topics, but I hope I've never resorted to name-calling or telling people to shut up. In fact I've repeatedly said we are all entitled to our own opinions - and the multitude of opinions that have been expressed only serves to underline the other thing I've repeatedly said, which is that Amazon needs to work out how to give all of us what we want - choices, choices, choices! Thankfully, there is only a small minority of people here who can't accept that someone's opinion can be entirely different to theirs and yet still valid.

I like reading other people's different ideas - it makes me think about my opinions and the thought processes behind them and, in some cases, has made me revise them. I hope I never become so closed minded that I can't at least consider the opposite point of view and I hope we can continue to 'argue' in a civilised manner!


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## Bigal-sa (Mar 27, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> Name-calling is just an ineffectual person's attempt to control another person. I'm not sure it works beyond third grade. At least it doesn't work with me. But I have learned today in this forum that if you don't suck up to popular opinion you'll 1) get told to shut up and when that falls 2) you'll be called names. What's next, water balloons?


What I've learnt from your comments in this thread is that *you* do not like anyone disagreeing with you...

The first thing I did after the update was to switch off these *features* as many others have said.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Mountains out of molehills.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Hey guys. I missed this thread yesterday. Let's refrain from personal attacks. No name calling. I think we can have a civil conversation on this topic. 

If anybody notices that's it's getting out of hand, don't respond in kind, just click the 'report to moderator' link in the post.


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## BK (Feb 5, 2009)

Can anyone tell me how to disable the highlighting in the Kindle iPad app?  It was easy to turn off on the Kindle, but I can't find the choice in the iPad app.

I agree that mark-ups in Kindle books are very distracting, and I agree that development money and time could have been spent on more important features!  Amazon decision makers could learn a lot by reading these message boards.  If my products were discussed at length by supportive and intelligent users in a forum like this one, I'd certainly pay attention to what was being said!


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## tsemple (Apr 27, 2009)

BK said:


> Can anyone tell me how to disable the highlighting in the Kindle iPad app? It was easy to turn off on the Kindle, but I can't find the choice in the iPad app.
> 
> I agree that mark-ups in Kindle books are very distracting, and I agree that development money and time could have been spent on more important features! Amazon decision makers could learn a lot by reading these message boards. If my products were discussed at length by supportive and intelligent users in a forum like this one, I'd certainly pay attention to what was being said!


I don't think they've gotten around to updating the Kindle apps yet. Seems the implementation is to deliver the complete set of highlights to the device/app on sync and then filter out the PH's if that setting is on. That would let you turn them on or off when not connected to wireless. But the apps don't let you turn them off yet.

Perhaps they could have done the filtering on the server side (don't deliver PH's to apps that can't turn them off) but I guess someone really wanted to get the feature noticed.


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## Karma Kindle (Jul 27, 2009)

Bigal-sa said:


> What I've learnt from your comments in this thread is that *you* do not like anyone disagreeing with you...
> 
> The first thing I did after the update was to switch off these *features* as many others have said.


Interestingly, if you READ my posts, they're all my opinion and I certainly do not direct anyone else to adopt my opinion. I state it. State my reasons for it. And that's it. You can use your Kindle however you wish - it's none of my business... but that's just the point of this discussion: Amazon made other people's use of their Kindles my business -- and unless there is consent on both sides of that invasion of privacy, IMO Amazon is WRONG.


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## meowser (Jan 5, 2010)

MINImum said:


> Regardless of whether or not we like the shared highlights feature, I don't think Amazon was being sneaky by turning it on by default. Rather, I think they turned it on so that we can experience it and see it in action. Otherwise, if it were turned off by default, most people probably wouldn't even know about it because how many people actually read the user's manuals unless they actually have a problem?
> 
> So I wouldn't classify this "forced" participation as particularly nefarious, I think they were just trying to be helpful. But you can't please everybody.


Forcing a customer to opt out instead of choosing to opt in is inherently anti-consumer. Whether it's for something minor like this or a more major privacy breach (like Facebook) it's still not a good practice.

Publicize the feature and allow those who want it to opt in; don't turn it on for everyone and force some people to opt out. One way gives people new options/features and the other way pisses people off - no matter how helpful or harmless the feature is.


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## jj2339 (Jan 18, 2010)

Karma Kindle said:


> Name-calling is just an ineffectual person's attempt to control another person. I'm not sure it works beyond third grade. At least it doesn't work with me. But I have learned today in this forum that if you don't suck up to popular opinion you'll 1) get told to shut up and when that falls 2) you'll be called names. What's next, water balloons?


I think that post had more to do with your assertion that if you weren't outraged by the popular highlights feature, you were into censorship and totalitarian control. That was a pretty heavy-handed thing to say, so i wouldn't be surpirsed someone took issue with that.

The thing is, nobody told you to shut up. People took issue with your very strong comments about how insidiious this new feature was, and dind't agree with you. It's a discussion board. If someone puts an opinion out there, especially ones as strongly worded as yours, it shouldn't come as a shock that people respond to it. But I don't recall anyone telling you to shut up.


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