# Ebay books on SD cards: information and warning



## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

I am a little confused over these issues.  I love to shop on Ebay.  The last week or so I have noticed several auctions as follows:  

"It's Finaly here Ladies, Its what all the Kindle owners have been waiting for , A best Seller Ebook Library on a Sd Card! Its Small but it is so simple! All you Do Is insert the Sd card into your Kindle One and you are ready to go! No more File Transfering. No more converting. No more Emailing yourself.  This little sd card is chock full of Best sellers you all know and love. 1gb card, with enough Ebooks to keep you Busy for a year or more! There is over 200 Best selling Ebook here. This is not Public Domain Classics.These are not books that you can find for free in all over the internet. These are Authors you know and Love."

It is a great deal, but I have questions about the legality of this auction.  If that isn't enough, would the SD card mentioned above work with another K1?

Please advise.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Tippy said:


> I am a little confused over these issues. I love to shop on Ebay. The last week or so I have noticed several auctions as follows:
> 
> "It's Finaly here Ladies, Its what all the Kindle owners have been waiting for , A best Seller Ebook Library on a Sd Card! Its Small but it is so simple! All you Do Is insert the Sd card into your Kindle One and you are ready to go! No more File Transfering. No more converting. No more Emailing yourself. This little sd card is chock full of Best sellers you all know and love. 1gb card, with enough Ebooks to keep you Busy for a year or more! There is over 200 Best selling Ebook here. This is not Public Domain Classics.These are not books that you can find for free in all over the internet. These are Authors you know and Love."
> 
> ...


I am always suspicious of sellers who don't know how to spell and don't know the basics of grammar. That said...

I'd be concerned about the legality of this, yes. You can buy from some sources that do not have DRM and can be read on multiple devices. However, just because it can be done, doesn't mean it's legal. For example, at Fictionwise, they have this statement:

*Am I allowed to email an eBook to a friend?*
_Sorry, that is not allowed by law. These stories are copyrighted. If you email a file to a friend, you are making a copy of it. You would be committing a crime. The file is licensed to you and you alone. It's not like a physical book that you can loan to a friend. When you purchase and download an eBook from Fictionwise.com, you alone are authorized to read it. You can download it onto multiple devices, for example a Palm and also your home PC. That's allowed by your personal license. But you cannot send copies to any other person. Besides being illegal, making an unauthorized copy of a work deprives the author of their fair royalty, and makes it harder for us to acquire more content in the future. If we catch a violator, we will prosecute him or her to the fullest extent of the law, which can include heavy fines and even imprisonment. So please don't do it. We charge reasonable prices, don't steal from us and our authors._

Thus, if the books on the SD card came from Fictionwise, the seller would be breaking the law. Same for books from other publishers. Books purchased from Amazon and stored on an SD card won't open on the Kindle, period, if it is not the Kindle for which the books were purchased.

How much are they selling these cards for?

L


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

^^^ What she said.  If it was me, I'd want to see a list of the books on the card before I'd be willing to buy it.  It's either illegal, as Leslie said or they're just public domain books from feedbooks or manybooks -- which you can get yourself for free.

And if they are all free public domain type books, which it would be perfectly legal to load up on an SD drive like that, where do they get off saying they're 'Best Sellers'.  Of course, most PD books are best sellers, just not current best sellers.  Either way, don't pay more than an empty SD card would cost you.   'Cause that's all you can be sure you're getting.

Ann


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

They are selling them for $37.99, free shipping.  Go to ebay and look for item # 250393082932.  Seller has a 99.2% positive rating.  

The Seller does not list any PD books.  For instance they have the Sookie Stackhouse series (8 books); Sherrilyn Kenyon Dark Hunter series (19); Sandra Hill Viking series (10); J.D. Robb (over 20); Karen Hawkins (14); Iris Johanson (9); Eve Duncan (9); Jane Feather (7); Kim Harrison (2); Georgette Heyer (4); Janet Chapman (5); Julia Quinn (9); Laura Kinsale (9); Lavyrle Spencer (5); Kat Martin (7); Julia Quinn (7); Nora Roberts (23); Lindsey Johanna (3); Cheryl Holt (1); Alecia Monaco (4); Sabrina Jeffries (; Lindsay Sands (19); Gena Showalter (7); and several others authors.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

O.K.  My feeling is that either (1) they're illegal copies or (2) they won't work on your Kindle because, as Leslie pointed out, they're only licensed for one device and you can't just swap out SD cards.  

The question is does the seller know this or not?  Based on the good rating they may just be ignorant. . . . 

I wouldn't do it even if they were books/authors I was interested in.  

Thanks for the info though. . . .

Ann


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

I had asked the Seller the same question.  Will let you know when they respond.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I posted a question, too. I guess this seller is going to get the hint that we are wondering about these books!

L


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## chocochibi (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm thinking it'll probably just be a matter of time before ebay gets onto this and pulls it.
They don't want publishers after them either.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

If no one has any objections, I'm going to split the last part of this thread about the e-bay issue into it's own thread so we can keep following it but also allow folks to continue to follow the 7th device thread.

Thanks.

Ann


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Great, this is an important issue for our members to know about, and some could miss it in the other thread!

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ouch!    It's still a bit tender there where you poked.


Betsy


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

The fact that a seller has a high rating with eBay buyers doesn't mean that the product is legal, it just means the buyers are happy. 

Under US law, if the books are not public domain the seller would be required to have an agreement with the copyright owner. I seriously doubt that any such agreements exist.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Trekker said:


> Thread splitting?? THAT'S IT...I'M LEAVING!!!
> 
> Just kidding...


Read my avatar. I think it applies . Keep it up and I'm not bringing home cookies tonight.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Trekker said:


> Thread splitting?? THAT'S IT...I'M LEAVING!!!
> 
> Just kidding...


Tain't funny.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

And this is the answer I received from the seller:
*
Not these are not Public Domain Ebooks. These are Ebooks I purchase from a variety of Different Sources. Yes they will work with your Kindle.*

I am debating a follow up question.

L


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Seriously doesn't sound legal.  Does this person have a distribution deal?  I think not...probably DRM stripped versions then copied and sold.

Betsy


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

We're aware we can use other Ebooks.  Amazon has never held us hostage.  Still sounds a bit fishy.  If she can do that, then why can't others, and why is it not more widely publized?  I would think our authors here would know about it.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Trekker said:


> Here's the latest reply from the seller:
> 
> *"It is Legal because I have Purchased resell Rights. I do not take illegal copies and resell them as some other sellers do. I purchase genuine copies and resell them. I have a Limited number of Resell rights. I can not just resell untill I die. I purchase xx amount of copies and when they are gone they are gone. Alot Kindle Owners ask the Same Questions you Do. Amazon sets up their Kindles and Whisper net excluseively for their own books. But You can use other Ebooks."
> *


It sounds like a load of bull to me. Woner if he knows he's talking to a bunch of ebook/kindle experts


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

luvmy4brats said:


> It sounds like a load of bull to me. Woner if he knows he's talking to a bunch of ebook/kindle experts


And quite a number of total people at this board.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I agree. . . .it smells worse and worse the more I hear. . . . .I mean, the books definitely are available elsewhere, but surely, even if there are not specific DRM issues that would prevent them from being read on the Kindle, there'd some kind of copyright issue.  From fictionwise, doesn't it specifically say you can't e-mail a book you buy to a friend because that's making a copy.  If she's not 'selling' her copies, a la a used bookstore scenario, she's definitely on thin ice.

Or he.  Could be a he.  

Ann


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

I am WAY interested in following this.... Keep me posted on what you find out...


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I think the whole thing sounds very fishy, too. Just do the math. She is selling 100 books for $37.99. That works out to $3.79 per book. She has to be making some money on these, otherwise, why would she be doing it? So assume she has a 50% markup, she bought the books (the mysterious "reseller rights") for ~$1.89. Huh? I don't think so. Publishers wholesale books for 50% of the list price, which means Amazon pays $10, $12, $15 or more for every book it sells. I really doubt this person has a legitimate way to be buying books for a dollar or two are reselling them legally on ebay.

I didn't even figure in the cost of the SD card.

L


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

I never hear of someone just buying "reseller rights" for xx number of resells.  I mean, where does an ordinary person do that??


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## MarthaT (Mar 3, 2009)

sure sounds fishy to me


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## kevindorsey (Mar 4, 2009)

I think he is just covering his Arse.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

kevindorsey said:


> I think he is just covering his Arse.


Not very well, the deal still smells.


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

I think that "he" is a "she".....

Whatever...if this was legit, then why aren't book clubs buying XX number of resells and sharing it among themselves?  I think that these are illegal books that she stripped the DRM off.  I know you can do that somehow.  (not legal at all) and she is making a profit.  I mean, you can get an SD card for next to nothing!  Amazon sells a 4GB for less than $10!  I am thinking that she will not be on eBay for long.  Someone will figure this out quick....especially now that WE are talking about it.  

(we are authorities, right?!?)


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I think she probably just downloaded illegal copies from those pirate sites (torrents, I think they are called) and put them on the card. I don't think she even did the work to remove the DRM.

I'd be curious to see one of the books and see if its provenance can be ascertained. Do they have the copyright pages? Are they scanned copies? Re-keyed books? Something else?

L


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Well, you could always buy the card in the name of research, Leslie!  

J/K


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Boy we should really jump Amazon, they must be making a killing if this dealer can make a profit selling for 38 cents each!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Trekker said:


> I think your math is wrong.
> 
> $37.99 / 100 = about 38 cents per book. But...the listing actually claims over 200 books for sale (not 100) so that would equal about 19 cents per book...of course that's not figuring in the cost of the SD card either.


Thank you. I was never good at doing math in my head. I should always pull out my calculator.

But with the correct numbers, that makes the whole scenario even more implausible. There is no way on this planet she is buying legitimate copies of bestselling books for 10 cents each.

L


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

KindleKay (aka #1652) said:


> Well, you could always buy the card in the name of research, Leslie!
> 
> J/K


Yes, but I don't want to put any money in this person's pocket.


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## Maxwell (Mar 22, 2009)

So which one of you guys is going to make the purchase??


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Trekker said:


> They aren't...they are selling them for 19 cents each.
> 
> For what it's worth...I reported this listing as "questionable"....maybe others should do the same.  At the very bottom of the page that has the listing, there is a "report this item" link. We'll get to the bottom of this one way or another.


Sorry,missed that before I posted, Even better for Amazon then.


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Ooooh, controversy.....me likes it!

(devilish laugh)


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

I also went to ebay and reported it, we'll see.


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Me, too...


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## Kind (Jan 28, 2009)

I guess enough people report it, it will get removed.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Kind said:


> I guess enough people report it, it will get removed.


I trust one of you e-bayers will let us know if that happens.

And then tomorrow. . . .we'll take over the WORLD!! BWAHAHAHAHA



Ann


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

The power of the internet!


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Maybe she is legit, then

If we find out that she is OK, then I will look into getting some books by her, but I don't want to get into illegal stuff....


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

The seller wrote this on one of her auctions:

I would like to add a note to all of my Buyers and Potential Buyers. I recently noticed alot of copies of my auctions and my books lists going up for sale in the same manner I sell mine. Looking at the Lists and my sales, Many of the auctions went up a few days after mine did. I'm looking into whether these sales are copies of mine or not. But Alot of them are selling for $0.99 for a set of 8 Books. One of which is a New Release.Thats not possible! The seller would be Losing several dollars a sale if his copy were legal. Older Books can certainly sell for $0.99 But Not new releases. Please be aware of Sellers selling Ebooks for Extremely Low Prices. Too Good to be true, Usualy means just that. If You dont mind a Illegal Copy by all means by from the Other sellers. Newest Ebooks will be right here providing legal copies to our Loyal Buyers.. My buyers know I will bend over backwards to help them with any problem. Can the $0.99 seller say the same?

(I swear, reading the stuff she writes is painful...)


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Leslie, maybe it is because I have had too much coffee this morning, but I am not following her explination at all...


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

KindleKay (aka #1652) said:


> Leslie, maybe it is because I have had too much coffee this morning, but I am not following her explination at all...


Neither am I, to be honest.

I really have to wonder how a person who can barely write a sentence in English would be able to negotiate deals with publishers to buy and re-sell bestsellers for just pennies? I am sorry if this sounds elitist, but if I were Random House or Harper Collins, there is no way I would be negotiating with this woman to offer her re-sell rights (whatever they are).

Even if you buy re-sell rights from a middleman, I would still be leery of her legitimacy.

I guess it is because I work with words for a living that I have a certain bias about the importance of clear and accurate written communications.

L


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

I do not work with words for a living, but it is a personal thing with me that whomever reads my posts should be able to understand exactly what I am saying.  I reread all my posts several times to ensure that they make sense and sometimes read them aloud to be sure.  (It doesn't always work, I mean, I have margarita night too!)  But you can bet that if I were selling something that could be viewed as potentially illegal, I would be SURE that my legal-ness (I know that isn't a word) was clear!!!  This is a very strange thread and eBay listing.  I am so curious as to how it will work out...


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Any more, many of the eBay auctions read as if English were not the first language of the seller. No problem with buying from dealers in other country's, Just think that if you are going to post it it in English, it should read properly. I know I have to go over mine several times, then have someone else read it to be sure.


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

First, the auctions are still listed on Ebay.

Second, I think I understand what she is said in her e-mail to Leslie.  The Seller is upset that someone is doing the same thing she is doing for LESS money.  The Seller also seems to think the copycats are 'stealing' her work.      

The Seller also stated that the books are in RTF, TXT and HTML format and that these formats work with Kindle 1.

I am left with more questions than answers and a really bad feeling about this Seller.  The word "Indictment" keeps popping into my mind.


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Yeah- Tippy. I have never reported a person to eBay but this one just screamed investigation to me.... I like discounted/free stuff as much as the next person but when it is stealing from a good, hard working person [author], well, that is just WRONG! Charlaine Harris (one of the authors in the SD card) lives just south of me in Arkansas and I have some loyalty to her, you know? From one Arkansian to another...

(I know I am wierd)


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

KindleKay (aka #1652) said:


> (I know I am wierd)


But in a good way!


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks intinst  

(By the way...I am running around like a chicken without a head: making the brownie/cookie dessert and the sour cream enchilada's from the It's deelish thread.  Got my windows open and just enjoying the feeling of feeling this good!  Today is a GOOD...GREAT day!!)


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

It says that the formats range between , html, opf, rtf and txt and that they all work on kindle. I dont' even know what rtf of opf is, I don't see them listed as any working format for kindle? So its a mixture of formats, some might work, others might now. Her review on already purchased ebooks seems positive, who knows. 

Can someone enlighten me as to those formats?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Atunah said:


> It says that the formats range between , html, opf, rtf and txt and that they all work on kindle. I dont' even know what rtf of opf is, I don't see them listed as any working format for kindle? So its a mixture of formats, some might work, others might now. Her review on already purchased ebooks seems positive, who knows.
> 
> Can someone enlighten me as to those formats?


HTML is a web page. OPF is the Mobipocket project file format. No publisher distributes books in that formats. RTF is Rich Text Format. TXT is text.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Jeff said:


> HTML is a web page. OPF is the Mobipocket project file format. No publisher distributes books in that formats. RTF is Rich Text Format. TXT is text.


Right. You can copy a .txt file directly to your Kindle. HTML and RTF would need to be converted. Like Jeff said, OPF is not normally used to distribute files and I have no idea what would be required to get it to work on a Kindle, if it would work at all.

L


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Leslie said:


> Right. You can copy a .txt file directly to your Kindle. HTML and RTF would need to be converted. Like Jeff said, OPF is not normally used to distribute files and I have no idea what would be required to get it to work on a Kindle, if it would work at all.


You would have to compile an OPF into a PRC file with Mobipocket Creator in order to be able to read it on a Kindle.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

intinst (or 1204 if you prefer) said:


> The power of the internet!


Power of Kindleboards


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## SusanCassidy (Nov 9, 2008)

All of the .opf files I have seen (from using Mobipocket Creator) have been information about the other files to be included in the build.  It is an XML format, documented online.  The ones I've seen do not have the text of the book, just info like how to create the Table of Contents, title and author, character set, etc.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

SusanCassidy said:


> All of the .opf files I have seen (from using Mobipocket Creator) have been information about the other files to be included in the build. It is an XML format, documented online. The ones I've seen do not have the text of the book, just info like how to create the Table of Contents, title and author, character set, etc.


If the HTML file referenced in the .opf file is present one can build an e-book using Mobipocket creator. The idea of distributing a book like that is very peculiar, to say the least.


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## Jill75 (Mar 19, 2009)

Trekker said:


> According to the seller's personal info:
> 
> *"I'm a mom of 4 Beautiful kids. I have two sons and two daughter's and am happily married to the man of my dream's.My Two son's have Aspergers and Bi-Polar.And my Youngest Daughter has a rare Condition called Lymphangioma."
> *
> Now, what I find bizarre is why "she" lists medical conditions of her children on ebay. Does that help sales in some way?


This seems just a marketing plot to get the sympathy of buyers? But has anyone really purchased the SD cards and see if it will work well in Kindle?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jill75 said:


> This seems just a marketing plot to get the sympathy of buyers? But has anyone really purchased the SD cards and see if it will work well in Kindle?


I wouldn't buy anything from this person.


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## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

I think it's funny that she mentions watching out for auctions with prices that are too good to be true.  I think the price she charges falls into that category.  I'm as big a fan of bargains as anyone on the board, but this doesn't ring true for me either.
I reported the listing also.


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## DD (Nov 9, 2008)

Tippy said:


> I am a little confused over these issues. I love to shop on Ebay. The last week or so I have noticed several auctions as follows:
> 
> "It's Finaly here Ladies, Its what all the Kindle owners have been waiting for , A best Seller Ebook Library on a Sd Card! Its Small but it is so simple! All you Do Is insert the Sd card into your Kindle One and you are ready to go! No more File Transfering. No more converting. No more Emailing yourself. This little sd card is chock full of Best sellers you all know and love. 1gb card, with enough Ebooks to keep you Busy for a year or more! There is over 200 Best selling Ebook here. This is not Public Domain Classics.These are not books that you can find for free in all over the internet. These are Authors you know and Love."
> 
> ...


I'd stay far away from this. There are a lot of illegal sites out there where people bootleg bestsellers and produce a file with many errors in print and formatting. I saw one of these illegal books once and, believe me, it was unreadable and very annoying. You have no idea where this seller got his books and what the quality is. I would bet he didn't buy those books judging from the price he's charging for them.

It's just not worth it to me to fool around with someone like this. I buy all my Amazon books at $9.99 or less and public domain classics are free. I also borrow some ebooks from my local library which expire in 3 weeks. The money I spend on the books I buy is not a lot compared to the enjoyment I get from reading them, expecially on my Kindle. If one wants to view it as such, buying books is my only 'vice' (except maybe accessorizing my Kindle too much!) and I'm worth it!


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I was just wondering if putting a suspect SD card in a Kindle might corrupt some of the existing files.
Any thoughts?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

drenee said:


> I was just wondering if putting a suspect SD card in a Kindle might corrupt some of the existing files.
> Any thoughts?


As of right now I've heard of no known Kindle viruses but that's always a possibility. The Kindle is a computer and we know that it runs binary files so the prudent approach might be to insert the SD card into your computer and let your virus hunter look it over. Anyone else want to jump in here? It's an important consideration.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I agree Jeff.  Not that I'd ever buy this particular one in the first place, but I'd definitely run a virus scanner over any SD card I was getting from someone else. . . .even if it was just an empty one that they were giving me.  It's like finding something on the street. . . .you don't know where it's been so wash your hands after touching it.  

Ann


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

LOL, Ann.  
I don't think I would use anything but a new SD card in my K.  I'm even reluctant to change out SD cards.  It will take me forever to fill up a 4 anyway.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I've been wondering when the first Kindle or eReader virus would appear.  I know there were some for PDAs...

It's a good question.

Betsy


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

*shudder*

I don't really want to think about it


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Forewarned is four-armed. Or something.










Betsy


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## ricky (Dec 24, 2008)

If the message is not enough to keep one away from this advertisement, then the grammar, syntax, and punctuation may do it.


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

No comments about this?:


ebay said:


> This Listing Is Unavailable
> 
> This listing (250393351763) has been removed or is no longer available.
> If the listing was removed by eBay, consider it canceled. Note: Listings that have ended more than 90 days ago will no longer appear on eBay.


Either your reporting worked and eBay thought there was something fishy, or the person who won had something to say.

Does anyone know/remember the sellers ID? I'd love to see if any comments were left by the auction winner.

[edit: Betsy, your last post made me lol.]


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Cat said:


> No comments about this?:
> Either your reporting worked and eBay thought there was something fishy, or the person who won had something to say.
> 
> Does anyone know/remember the sellers ID? I'd love to see if any comments were left by the auction winner.
> ...


I looked at my eBay messages, where I had a response to my question, and clicked on the seller's name. It came up with the message that newestebooks is "no longer a registered user."

L


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Leslie said:


> I looked at my eBay messages, where I had a response to my question, and clicked on the seller's name. It came up with the message that newestebooks is "no longer a registered user."
> 
> L


And the plot thickens.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Really though, just to go after one seller is a bit useless. Have you checked ebooks on ebay lately? They are everywhere. Those that want them this way will always find a way to get them. It isn't going to kill the ebook industry. 

Oh well, I guess I am of the live and let live. Just me I guess.


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

Leslie said:


> I looked at my eBay messages, where I had a response to my question, and clicked on the seller's name. It came up with the message that newestebooks is "no longer a registered user."
> 
> L


Aww, poor illegal seller got caught and smacked down. heh. Eh, there are always the torrent sites where one can dl FREE illegal copies of anything (including viruses that people put in the downloads (No honor among thieves, I guess, lol.)), but I s'pose not everyone knows that and thieves can market to those who think they're getting legal copies simply because they are advertised, and have a price tag. Sad for the people who want to stay on the legal side of things. Thx for the info Leslie.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

They will be back on eBay with a different name in no time, but at least we put a hitch in their stride.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Excuse me?


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I do not appreciate your tone towards me. I have no idea where this is coming from. I voiced my opinion like anyone else. You do not know me well enough to make any judgments towards what you call my "ridiculous attitude". How rude.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

And it is insulting to insinuate I wouldn't know the difference between robbery on the street and making a comment about ebay on a message board. Really? Again you find yourself an expert on my "attitude" How pray tell. 

Let me make it maybe clearer, there are a gazillion sellers on ebay selling ebooks they get illegally from torrents. Reporting one seller that will just come back under a different name is a drop in the bucket.

There is absolutely no reason for you to continue personally attacking me. Discuss the issues without trying to bully the poster, try it sometimes. 

Wow, I don't even know what to say anymore. So I just bow out and refrain from posting opinions.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks for the apology, Trekker. Atunah, I hope you will keep posting your opinions, they are valued and welcome. Everyone, remember, we don't have the facial expressions and so on to help understand the message. Please be respectful and always assume good intent on the part of the poster. 

I am not going to delete anything at this moment -- the two mods for this board are busy right now. For now but I'll let this be since it seems that things have been worked out.

Leslie
Global Mod


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## MonaSW (Nov 16, 2008)

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=newestebooks

For the seller to have been suspended that fast he had to have had a few strikes against him in the past. It usually takes eBay a remarkably long time to suspend a seller. Either that or a publisher filed a Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) complaint. VeRO take downs can be very fast even if unwarranted.

I have to say I am glad a suspected book pirate is at least temporarily out of business.


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

It appears eBay listened to the concerns they received from KindleBoards.  Then they investigated and finally they acted.  

I have used eBay extensively since 2001 and have had only 1 negative experience with a Seller.  It took me weeks to track this woman down and hound her into returning my money.  It took months for eBay to terminate her privilege of selling on eBay.

EBay's prompt response confirms the opinons of this board were correct.  KindleBoards has made a difference.


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## chynared21 (Oct 28, 2008)

*Just clicked on the seller's link to read the feedback and apparently she's back in business *


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

chynared21 said:


> *Just clicked on the seller's link to read the feedback and apparently she's back in business *


Oh really. Still selling books on SD cards? Do you have a link?

L


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## chynared21 (Oct 28, 2008)

Leslie said:


> Oh really. Still selling books on SD cards? Do you have a link?
> 
> L


*I clicked on Mona's link....up a few posts.*


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## DD (Nov 9, 2008)

It is interesting to me that this seller addresses his/her auction to "Ladies".  Do only ladies read and own Kindles?

The spelling and grammar errors alone in this listing are enough to keep me away from this seller, let alone the shady origins of the ebooks offered.  For instance, a big red flag goes up for me when someone doesn't know the proper usage of the articles 'a' and 'an'.  The listing is rife with these kinds of errors.  Maybe not a sound basis for judgement, but it doesn't inspire confidence either.  Well, that's just me, the former English teacher.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

I sent a report to eBay again.


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

Has anyone seen this seller on ebay: newestebooks? They are offering ebooks on SD card or disk for amazing prices. I am trying to figure out if they are legit or not. Does anyone know how the books are formatted? I am going to write and see if I can get her vendors licence # as well as ask what the format is. I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with her.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Despite this sellers claims, I find it very hard to believe they are a 100% legal seller.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

We had another thread about this seller over in the "Let's Talk Kindle" board a few weeks ago. Lots of people felt that the SD cards and books she was selling could absolutely not be on the up and up. A few folks registered complaints and she was even taken down as a seller for a few days, but then popped back up again.

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from her. 

L


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

Thank you, I knew someone here would know something about it!


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I was told that several people on eBay are selling unauthorized copies of numerous ebooks, including mine.

As Leslie has warned against, many authors in their zeal to be read, provide free copies of their books with no DRM protection which leaves them wide open for pirating. If the sellers are in a country that does not have an intellectual property agreement with the United States there's almost nothing that can be done to stop the practice.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

I just found out about this person's scam "business" on a thread at The Book Corner. (A big Thank You to MAGreen and Leslie!) I have to say, this scares the crap out of me.

I offer my book as a free download in addition to having it available to purchase on Kindle because a) I'm an unknown author, and it has helped to build a reader base; b) because I like connecting with readers; and c) it might also be an ego thing. I'll have to check with my therapist. I knew there would be a risk involved in doing so, but I did it anyway. I don't regret it and will keep it available. But now that I can _see _ the very real possibility some jerkwad scooping in, downloading the thing, then reselling it...well, I'm not going to stand for it. It's *MINE*!!!

She's got a website in addition to the ebay scam "business". Readers can request ebooks, although "You may be required to place a deposit on you [sic] Book Purchase to Ensure Availability." I'm going in for a sting operation. If I can request and buy my own book from her, I'm totally kicking some butt.


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

Keep us posted rj, I really want to see how that pans out!


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

You go,rj! Someone needs to end this scam business.


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

This is the answer I just got about the legality and formatting of the books...

_Hi, Yes these are legal ebooks. I purchase them in Bulk or buy Volume Licenses from other Closing Ebook Sellers. I have had many people question how I can sell so many ebooks legaly for so Cheap. Its simple. Amazon has to pay legal teams, customer service reps, website designers, bandwith fees and lots of other huge costs. Because I have none of those costs and I buy from other sellers when they are closing down, Im able to get my Ebooks at rock bottom prices.By Combining the books into large lots I can minimize the amount of work needed to sell the ebooks also. The Sd card is already Formated for the Kindle one. But I have had some buyers tell me that needed to rename the Books so they can see them better on the Kindle. I hope this helps answer your questions. Thanks_

Sounds very fishy to me. I may have to look into the ablity to buy "volume licences", but I have never heard of such a thing (not that I am any kind of expert!)


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I am going to merge this thread with the one in the book corner, to keep the discussion in one place. Just so everyone knows what I am doing.

Leslie
wearing mod hat for a moment


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

Thank you Leslie!
(cute hat, by the way  )


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

I'll definitely keep you posted.


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

My inquiring mind wants to know!  Keep us posted rj!


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## webhill (Feb 12, 2009)

Trekker said:


> According to the seller's personal info:
> 
> *"I'm a mom of 4 Beautiful kids. I have two sons and two daughter's and am happily married to the man of my dream's.My Two son's have Aspergers and Bi-Polar.And my Youngest Daughter has a rare Condition called Lymphangioma."
> *


...

"and I Personally suffer from an excess of Apostrophe's and Capital Letter's..."

sheesh.

-h.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

MAGreen said:


> _Because I have none of those costs and I buy from other sellers when they are closing down, Im able to get my Ebooks at rock bottom prices._


This may be the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard....


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

RJ, go get her!

Will be interested in your results.


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## kyliedork (Mar 20, 2009)

what a joke, that seller sounds like a somali pirate









Anyone who has had any experience with IP contracting can drive a truck thru the holes in his story. resellers can not assign reseller rights to a third party.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

But it sounds good and I bet a lot of folks are biting. . . . .

Ann


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Meemo said:


> This may be the most nonsensical thing I've ever heard....


I know. Really.

She may be able to sell them "legaly" (whatever that is) but I doubt she is selling them legally.

L


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Leslie said:


> I know. Really.
> 
> She may be able to sell them "legaly" (whatever that is) but I doubt she is selling them legally.
> 
> L


Too funny.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

I reported several of this sellers listings to ebay.  I got a generic response that they would look into it, but I kind of got the idea they wouldn't do much unless the copyright holder complained.

I did send an email to Penguin group with links to this sellers ebay listings and a link to her website but I suspect it will never see human eyes.


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## CoolMom1960 (Mar 16, 2009)

MAGreen said:


> This is the answer I just got about the legality and formatting of the books...
> 
> *I purchase them in Bulk or buy Volume Licenses from other Closing Ebook Sellers*.


Okay this is the part that got me. Closing Ebook Sellers? None of the ebook stores I have ever dealt with have closed. I am assuming the seller means "Ebay" book sellers.

I'm with the rest of you as far as the language etc in the sellers posts. My guess is they are using something like Babelfish to translate from their native language to English. I wouldn't buy from them. I contain my ebaying to US sellers since I've been burned a couple of times buy non-US sellers.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

CoolMom1960 said:


> Okay this is the part that got me. Closing Ebook Sellers? None of the ebook stores I have ever dealt with have closed. I am assuming the seller means "Ebay" book sellers.
> 
> I'm with the rest of you as far as the language etc in the sellers posts. My guess is they are using something like Babelfish to translate from their native language to English. I wouldn't buy from them. I contain my ebaying to US sellers since I've been burned a couple of times buy non-US sellers.


She's trying to portray herself as the TJMaxx of e-books, as if publishers have a stack of e-books sitting around saying "Geez, how do I get rid of these things..." Too bad people fall for it, especially for books they could find free on the net (some of them even legal).

I don't know if she's just one of those folks who was never taught proper grammar, or if English isn't her native language. But it will take buyers to get her off eBay, unless publishers can get involved. Much like the guy who keeps selling the same Kindle with the broken screen over and over, I don't think ebay gets involved if non-buyers complain.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

She/He is getting the files straight from torrent sites. I checked and compared. Same files with the same names even. 

Other sellers on ebay seem to be doing the same thing. Just that she/he is tapping into the Kindle/Sony market.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Forster said:


> I reported several of this sellers listings to ebay. I got a generic response that they would look into it, but I kind of got the idea they wouldn't do much unless the copyright holder complained.
> 
> I did send an email to Penguin group with links to this sellers ebay listings and a link to her website but I suspect it will never see human eyes.


Seems Penguin group followed up. Here is their response:


Dear ------,

Thank you for contacting us. We are not aware of having authorized the rights to sell Penguin Group (USA) books through this channel, and we appreciate that you've taken the time to contact us and share this information. Because of the volume of mail received, we cannot guarantee that you will receive a personal response; however, we will certainly see that this is sent along to our Legal department for review and follow-up.

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to look into this matter.

Looks like this seller's Charlaine Harris books have been yanked from ebay and they are no longer listed on her personal website.

........Sadly all the other books are still on ebay and her website.


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm not sure what the chances are of being listened to, but I've always had good luck getting information and help from the community forums at ebay. There are knowledgeable members there who are familiar with so many aspects of ebay, and willing to help. They may have really good suggestions as to how to get ebay's ear, or have an in themselves. They may also know something about ebay policy vs the legality of the wording of her ad. Dunno, but I might give it a try if you feel emailing ebay wont get a response. 

Go to ebay ... Home > Community  > Answer Center > Miscellaneous. 

'Course my spelling or grammar in this post may make you decide I can't be helpful and ain't worth listening to.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Cat said:


> 'Course my spelling or grammar in this post may make you decide I can't be helpful and ain't worth listening to.


Aw Cat, you're not holding a grudge or anything, are you?  I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the fine print it said that that wasn't allowed on KB. 

Besides, the grammar police folks are probably too much in shock from the writing in the original E-Bay ad to notice anyone else's.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

CoolMom1960 said:


> My guess is they are using something like Babelfish to translate from their native language to English.


Not that it has any bearing on the main issues here, but that post is not the result of machine translation. MT has strengths and weaknesses, but the weaknesses are quite different from human errors.


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## Solarraven (Dec 25, 2008)

Has anyone reported this seller to Ebay ?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Based on previous posts in the thread, I'd say the seller has been reported several times.  She pulls the offending product and then a couple of days later offers it, or something similar, again.  She maintains the copies are legal so unless someone with money behind the request comes after her she'll keep on.

Ann


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

Bringing this thread back from the dead!

I was on ebay today and I was looking at random [email protected] and noticed a real boom in ebook sales. I am certain almost all (if not all) are illegal. So sad! There are even ones to sell you a website to sell ebooks. I did look at them and found they might be legal, but only because the books available are off beat stuff no one else carries. Makes me wonder about the noise being made about ebook prices. I think publishers need to go after those people and protect their digital rights. Isn't there a clause about losing copyrights if you don't defend them? The offender this thread started about is still going strong too. I may have to send a few emails to publishers with links to her ads...I think her ship needs to be sunk. They should be able to stop it since they do have a direct grievance, right?


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Not to turn this into an Ebay rant, okay maybe I am, lol.....But Ebay _has_ to know this is going on and it is rampant, not just with ebooks but all digital media. Common sense alone would dictate that their is no way any of these e-book sellers have the digital rights to sell main stream books especially at the price they are going for. Ebay may give lip service to trying to stop this but that is it, I mean if they stop it or shut it down they'll lose profit.

I used to do lots of business with ebay but now it is only if I absolutely can not get the item anywhere else and it is something I have to have (pretty much nothing). They have no problem for banning legal items for their personal political reasons but heck they seem to have no desire to stop illegal activity.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't really deal with e-bay at all. . . .but my impression is that it has gotten Really Big in a relatively short space of time, all things considered.  No matter how much they may want to keep inappropriate stuff off the site, they're not going to be able to do it totally.  I would think, though, that if a seller is repeatedly reported they'd do something.

But, as I say, I really don't 'shop' there at all.  I know folks who do and they've had good experiences but it's just something I'm not comfortable with.  Besides: there are so many other places to shop!  

Ann


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

Trekker said:


> They are back up here.


Figures.


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## chynared21 (Oct 28, 2008)

*The only way to possibly check all the listings is to stop real time listings and delay them so that they could be checked for violations. I can't see that happening anytime soon as that would probably create a huge backlog... *


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

chynared21 said:


> *The only way to possibly check all the listings is to stop real time listings and delay them so that they could be checked for violations. I can't see that happening anytime soon as that would probably create a huge backlog... *


Ebay could also _refuse_ to list listings with digital content unless the sellers go through a process where they verify they have the right to sell such stuff. Make it a violation to their terms of use resulting in immediate banning for going against the policy.

Ebay has successfully banned other types of listings.


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## chynared21 (Oct 28, 2008)

Forster said:


> Ebay could also _refuse_ to list listings with digital content unless the sellers go through a process where they verify they have the right to sell such stuff. Make it a violation to their terms of use resulting in immediate banning for going against the policy.
> 
> Ebay has successfully banned other types of listings.


*That's a brilliant idea...they should definitely make it "harder" for sellers to digital content. But, does eBay then run into the problem with resale of used DVDs, CDs and gaming media even though that is a whole different area?  I'm probably mixing apples with oranges though.*


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## Neversleepsawink;) (Dec 16, 2008)

Trekker said:


> They are back up here.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Trekker said:


> They are back up here.


Well this cracked me up - when you scroll down the page you find this near the bottom:

"On Apr-09-09 at 23:35:32 PDT, seller added the following information:

Attention Buyers. I had know for awhile that one of my Buyers was reselling ebooks illegaly after purchasing them from me. I have now found the Person who is responsible for Illegaly reselling ebooks she Purchased from me. Below you will Find the Auction numbers she Purchased from me and then below that her item numbers. Please be sure not to buy from Thieves like these. They drive up the price of ebooks and run good sellers like me out of bussiness. None of my Auctions include reseller rights or master resell rights. When you purchase from me you are only getting a copy for personal use! Mine 250376123797 250385818484 250376160361 250376077478 250376137622 Hers 320357042346 320356692173 320358036544 320356670107 320356757236 320356665450

On Apr-16-09 at 10:41:00 PDT, seller added the following information:

I have Resell rights Aand or am the copyright owner of these ebooks. They are not for resale!"

She's shocked & appalled  that she has competition. And her writing skills haven't improved...


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

That's just. . . . . . . .sad. . . . . . .<sigh!>

Ann


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

She's the copyright owner? This woman clearly has no clue...

L


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

MAGreen said:


> I may have to send a few emails to publishers with links to her ads...I think her ship needs to be sunk. They should be able to stop it since they do have a direct grievance, right?


That might be a really good idea, actually.


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## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

Okay, I have a question. I've never bought anything from ebay, but wondered how she can do this. Can they fine her or arrest her? Do the people who purchase from her get in trouble? I never buy anything like this. There is a saying "If it looks to good to be true, it probably isn't true". I think this would be a big buyer beware, but I'm sure she is selling plenty.


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

Is there a way for her to prove that she has re-sell rights or holds the copyright? I dont know much about that type of stuff but couldnt she somehow prove it if she is in fact telling the truth?


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

koolmnbv said:


> Is there a way for her to prove that she has re-sell rights or holds the copyright? I dont know much about that type of stuff but couldnt she somehow prove it if she is in fact telling the truth?


With fiction books (what she is selling) the author holds the copyright. Not the publisher, not God, not this eBay seller. Look in the front of any fiction book and see the copyright symbol with the author's name.

Also, as far as I know, ebooks, for the moment, are sold like traditional books. There are no "re-sell" rights. A publisher wholesales them to a distributor and the distributor pushes them to the retail channels. Who exactly is this ebay seller buying these resell rights from? At what point in the chain? If you think about it for a second or two or three you realize that her whole scam is bogus.

My 2 cents.

L


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## chynared21 (Oct 28, 2008)

Trekker said:


> What's strange with this particular seller is that after she was reported, her "store" was closed and she was no longer a valid seller. If that was an action on Ebay's part, then how did she get back in business? Shouldn't she have been flagged as a problem? Or maybe Ebay bought all her mumbo-jumbo


*Unfortunately I've seen that happen time and time again on eBay. *


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## Neversleepsawink;) (Dec 16, 2008)

Leslie said:


> Who exactly is this ebay seller buying these resell rights from?
> 
> L


You haven't seen the Resell Rights Singing truck that goes up and down neighborhood streets? LOL! Yea, she is full of poop. Sorry, the nicest way I could put that.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Neversleepsawink;) said:


> the Resell Rights Singing truck that goes up and down neighborhood streets?


LOL!!


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## Neversleepsawink;) (Dec 16, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> LOL!!


I told you I had to much time on my hands today  LOL!


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## Keyser Soze (Apr 24, 2009)

Looks like that seller is "no longer a registered user".


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## kyliedork (Mar 20, 2009)

is that seller for real? how stupid can you get?


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Off topic for a bit of a rant.  I ventured over to EBay to see how Ks were selling this morning.  Someone has a K2 for sale with a "bonus" leather cover.  But the price to buy now is for the K and the cover, which doesn't make it a bonus at all.  I guess that's just a marketing technique, but it just irritated me.  

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled topic.
deb


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

I reported her to 3 different publishing houses who owned the rights to the books she was selling. I guess they got my emails!


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

^^^good for you.  I many of us are trying hard to convince publishers and authors to make their books available to us legitimately.  Folks like this just make the convincing harder.
deb


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

There is no way that is legitimate.  I agree, Trekker, something needs to be done.
deb


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

There are dozens of others out there...hundreds maybe. I wish we could get them all!


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

I think the publishers need to have someone on staff that surfs the web and looks for this crap so it can be shut down...hmmm, where's that dream job thread?


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

If someone could prosecute a couple of them it might put a hitch in their giddyup.  
deb


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

It is these eBay boneheads that give JK Rowling an argument.....!!


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

KindleKay (aka #1652) said:


> It is these eBay boneheads that give JK Rowling an argument.....!!


Yes and no. Lesser known authors probably won't have their works proliferated quite as easily without a digital version being made for sale. Authors like JK Rowling are going to have their works digitalized no matter what, the question is only if they are going to profit from it or no by making a legal copy for fans to buy.


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## KindleKay (aka #1652) (Jan 20, 2009)

Forster said:


> Yes and no. Lesser known authors probably won't have their works proliferated quite as easily without a digital version being made for sale. Authors like JK Rowling are going to have their works digitalized no matter what, the question is only if they are going to profit from it or no by making a legal copy for fans to buy.


AH! I like your argument better..... Someone told me that I can get illegal copies of her books and while it is tempting, I am doing eBooks legally!! If she would just allow it, I would BUY it!!!!! Very frustrating!


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

And oh, I give it a week or so before the ebay seller is back.  I had previously complained to ebay and reported the seller to a publisher.  The publisher in question's works were temporarily removed, but that is all that happened.  

Personally I think the publishers ought to band together and go after ebay for facilitating this activity but unfortunately that's akin to taking on an 800 pound gorilla.


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## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

KindleKay (aka #1652) said:


> AH! I like your argument better..... Someone told me that I can get illegal copies of her books and while it is tempting, I am doing eBooks legally!! If she would just allow it, I would BUY it!!!!! Very frustrating!


Her books are easily enough obtained illegally and like you I won't download them, frustrating indeed. She's not building up a lot of goodwill with me by refusing to offer legal digital copies. Ditto for other authors who have gone on the record against e-books.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Forster said:


> Her books are easily enough obtained illegally and like you I won't download them, frustrating indeed. She's not building up a lot of goodwill with me by refusing to offer legal digital copies. Ditto for other authors who have gone on the record against e-books.


Wonder how many people it would take to e-mail her saying "Hey - I can download a digital copy of every one of your books for free right now if I want, but I'm choosing to wait until you make it possible for me to do it legally (and thereby allow you to be paid for said downloads) - how long do I have to wait, woman" Only put a little more politely .... would she ever get with the program?


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

It will take a newcomer making their name with huge e-book sales to wake the JK Rowlings up.  

Just my opinion.


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## koolmnbv (Mar 25, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> It will take a newcomer making their name with huge e-book sales to wake the JK Rowlings up.
> 
> Just my opinion.


Well said!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

From the Dear Author website (via Techcrunch):

The UK high court sided with eBay in a suit brought by L'Oreal. The cosmetics company tried to hold eBay liable for damages for the sales of counterfeit L'Oreal products. eBay has won similar cases in Belgium and France. *The implications for authors is that pirated works will continue to be sold and its up to the authors to use the tools that eBay provides to get those auctions removed.*

The downside for eBay is that if it doesn't rigorously police its offerings, people might begin to lose confidence in the products sold.

L


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

Ebay can be a great place to shop.  I have found some terrific (and legal) deals on Ebay that never would have been available to me in any way shape or form. 

The seller referred to in this thread makes me LOL.  It just goes to prove that stupidity and arrogance make for great entertainment.  A lot of people have done a great job of reporting her.  Justice moves slowly, but it does move.


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