# Quotation marks on end of ellipses or em dashes? HELP!



## J. B. Cantwell (Mar 26, 2014)

When I type an ellipses or emdash and then put a quote mark on the end of it, as in the case when the speaker is cut off mid-sentence, the quotations are slanted in the wrong direction. Does anyone have this problem and know how to force the quotation marks to slant the correct way when cutting off a sentence like this?

Tearing. Hair. Out.


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## kjbryen (Jul 3, 2014)

Oh my gosh, I know! I've just done the ". . ." instead of dashes. But if anyone else knows how to fix that, I'd love to know as well!


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## abishop (May 22, 2014)

The simplest way to fix a problem like this, assuming it happens infrequently, is to just copy and paste the correct quotation mark from elsewhere in the manuscript.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

I type a letter (usually e) then the quote then delete the letter. Probably a better way to do it, but that's the only way I know.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

Write the sentence first wrapped in quotation marks.  This will make them go in the correct direction.  Then go back and add your emdash.


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## Anne Berkeley (Jul 12, 2013)

Everyone has their own trick. I add my quote mark and than arrow back the space and add it.


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## JessieSnow (Jul 25, 2014)

I do the same, except to make it longer instead of shorter (the dash) I usually write something like, "But I wanted you to - adsf" and then delete the extra spaces and gibberish so it looks like, "But I wanted you to-" (except the right way, this is KBoards, not Microsoft Word).


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

I just a period after the dash, before the quote and then delete the period. It's the way I've always done it and it's worked every time.


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## George Hamilton (Dec 14, 2010)

ruecole said:


> I type a letter (usually e) then the quote then delete the letter. Probably a better way to do it, but that's the only way I know.
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Rue


This.

Writing the sentence first in quotation marks and then adding the Em dash does not work for me, as I use a double dash which must be followed by a word or letter then space for the Em dash to form.


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## G. (Aug 21, 2014)

I just add another quote mark right after, then delete the starting quote.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

ruecole said:


> I type a letter (usually e) then the quote then delete the letter.


That's my method too. I hadn't thought about it it before, but it might be simpler to learn the keystroke to do that closing quote instead, so I'll look it up...

On a Mac, it turns out the closing double quote is Option+Shift+[. The closing single quote (for starting words with dropped letters, like 'cause), is Option+Shift+]

In Windows, it's Alt+0147 for the closing double quote and Alt+0146 for the closing single quote. (I think you have to do the numbers on a keypad, not the numbers above the QWERT letters, but I'm not sure because it's been a while since I've used Windows.)


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I do the "put an extra letter in and then delete it" thing that everybody else does.


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

Note that it's something you don't have to worry about while writing. If you wait until the end, you can do a Find & Replace search for it.


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

Z. Rider said:


> That's my method too. I hadn't thought about it it before, but it might be simpler to learn the keystroke to do that closing quote instead, so I'll look it up...
> 
> On a Mac, it turns out the closing double quote is Option+Shift+[. The closing single quote (for starting words with dropped letters, like 'cause), is Option+Shift+]
> 
> In Windows, it's Alt+0147 for the closing double quote and Alt+0146 for the closing single quote. (I think you have to do the numbers on a keypad, not the numbers above the QWERT letters, but I'm not sure because it's been a while since I've used Windows.)


Yes, on Windows you have to use the numeric keypad for alt+ combinations.


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

In Word, set up an entry in Autocorrect to change —" to —". Did it once ten years ago and haven't had to worry about it since. 

(OK, it doesn't show on the forum, but that's em dash + open quote  and em dash + close quote.)


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## Peter Spenser (Jan 26, 2012)

J. B. Cantwell said:


> Does anyone have this problem


Actually, no. I just tried both situations on my Mac using Microsoft Word for Mac 2011 running under Mavericks (OS X 10.9.5) and they both worked correctly.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Just type two quotes and delete the first one.


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## HarryK (Oct 20, 2011)

swolf said:


> Just type two quotes and delete the first one.


Yup that was going to be my suggestion. It's what I do if I'm in Word.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Turn off curly quotes altogether. Smashwords asks you to do this anyway.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

SBJones said:


> Write the sentence first wrapped in quotation marks. This will make them go in the correct direction. Then go back and add your emdash.


That's how I do it. It seems to me to be the easiest fix. Why this happens, I have no clue. It seems rather stupid but I suspect most of us have run into it.


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## George Hamilton (Dec 14, 2010)

Andrea @ ArtWellPub said:


> In Word, set up an entry in Autocorrect to change --" to --". Did it once ten years ago and haven't had to worry about it since.
> 
> (OK, it doesn't show on the forum, but that's em dash + open quote and em dash + close quote.)


How do you retain the curly quote when you do this? It's changing my curly quote to a straight one.


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## David Penny (Jun 8, 2014)

I've gotten so used to this I automatically type two now, and delete the first one after using an em dash of ellipsis


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## AisFor (Jul 24, 2014)

G. said:


> I just add another quote mark right after, then delete the starting quote.


This is my method of choice


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

I hate it when my word processor does that, too!

I'm in the same habit that the two people above me posted: two quotation marks, then delete the first one.  It seems to be the easiest way to fix it.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Patty Jansen said:


> Turn off curly quotes altogether. Smashwords asks you to do this anyway.


Personally, I think straight quotes in formatted text are ugly and distracting, and much less professional looking than curly quotes.

Here's what the Smashwords Style Guide has to say:



> *Palm Doc (PDB)* - PalmDoc is a format primarily used on Palm Pilot devices, but
> software readers are available for PalmOS, Symbian OS, Windows Mobile Pocket
> PC/Smartphone, desktop Windows, and Macintosh. Be sure to turn off "smart quotes" in
> your source file, otherwise they may appear garbled in your PDB file. Our PDB is little
> more than ugly plain text.


Sorry, but that's just bad advice. They want me to make my source file look amateurish so that a format they admittedly say is 'little more than ugly plain text' isn't garbled? Not happening. How about they fix their conversion software instead?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

While we're on the subject, what does everyone use for the dash at the end of a quote if the speaker is cut off? Hyphen, em dash, or en dash?

Personally, I like the en dash for that that purpose.  Not too long, and not too short.  Although, like the backwards quote, Word doesn't make it easy to get an en dash in there.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Just found a solution to the OP's question.  There's a way in Word to force the type (opening or closing) of quotation mark you want.  

If you want to force an opening quote, press the Ctrl and ` keys simultaneously and then release.  (The ` key is the one just to the left of the 1 on the numerical row.) Then press the double quote key.  It will be forced to an opening quote.

If you want to force a closing quote, press the Ctrl and ' keys simultaneously and then release.  (The ' key is the single and double quote key.) Then press the double quote key.  It will be forced to a closing quote.

This works for single quotes too. 

So the keystrokes required after the ellipses or dash are:  Ctrl-' then "

Much simpler.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

swolf said:


> While we're on the subject, what does everyone use for the dash at the end of a quote if the speaker is cut off? Hyphen, em dash, or en dash?


Em dash because that's what it's for. (The en dash is for expressing a range: "I'd like 2[insert en dash]73 pieces of pie right now." Hyphens are word-level punctation, not sentence-level.) (And also, I spend way longer on the threads you post in because your avatar is hypnotizing.)


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## David Penny (Jun 8, 2014)

I've always used an en dash to indicate someone's been cut off - but my proofreader changed them all to em dashes, so I guess that's my wrist slapped right there


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## darkline (Mar 30, 2014)

I use straight quotes in Word, paste the text  into Scrivener, do "Convert straight quotes to smart quotes." In converts them correctly. No problem at all.


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## Scott Runkel (Sep 15, 2014)

ruecole said:


> I type a letter (usually e) then the quote then delete the letter. Probably a better way to do it, but that's the only way I know.


I emailed Scrivener about this problem and their solution was exactly this. The guy said it was system-wide problem on the Mac that they have tried for years to get rid of.


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

George Hamilton said:


> How do you retain the curly quote when you do this? It's changing my curly quote to a straight one.


Type the curly quote in the body, then copy and paste it into the Autocorrect field.


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## STOHara (Feb 23, 2011)

swolf said:


> Personally, I think straight quotes in formatted text are ugly and distracting, and much less professional looking than curly quotes.
> 
> Here's what the Smashwords Style Guide has to say:
> 
> Sorry, but that's just bad advice. They want me to make my source file look amateurish so that a format they admittedly say is 'little more than ugly plain text' isn't garbled? Not happening. How about they fix their conversion software instead?


I'd just opt out of creating a Palm version. The money you'll lose wouldn't be enough to buy a bottle of Coke.


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## Peter Spenser (Jan 26, 2012)

Scott Runkel said:


> I emailed Scrivener about this problem&#8230;. The guy said it was system-wide problem on the Mac&#8230;.


Uh, no, it isn't. It always makes me shake my head when some programmer tries to pass off this type of bullsh*t as a problem with the "system" when, in fact, they just haven't figured out yet how to fix it (or don't want to spend the time-and, thus, money-to re-write their code to take care of it).

Well, the guys at Microsoft figured it out, and so did the developers of Apple's TextEdit, because both of those apps (on my Mac, at least) have no problem with automatically placing smart quotes to close out sentences that end with all sorts of characters: ellipses, em dashes, whatever. You just set the "smart quotes" check box in the "Preferences" window of the app.


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## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

Peter Spenser said:


> Well, the guys at Microsoft figured it out, and so did the developers of Apple's TextEdit, because both of those apps (on my Mac, at least) have no problem with automatically placing smart quotes to close out sentences that end with all sorts of characters: ellipses, em dashes, whatever. You just set the "smart quotes" check box in the "Preferences" window of the app.


Your Mac's smarter than mine. TextEdit and Word for Mac 2011 do it right after an ellipsis for me but wrong after an em dash. I'm running Mavericks 10.9.4.


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