# Createspace closing its store? And so it begins...



## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

To better serve customers and improve the online buying experience, we will redirect customers who click on your CreateSpace eStore links to their corresponding detail pages on Amazon.com starting October 31, 2017.

We're making this change based on increasing feedback and requests to add features to the eStore that are currently available on Amazon.com. These features include the ability to search across the site, an improved checkout process, better shipping options including Amazon Prime, order tracking notifications, and a familiar user interface.

While this change will allow eStore redirects to benefit your titles' sales rank and visibility on Amazon.com, we realize these sales will earn lower royalty rates than on the eStore. To help with this transition, we will adjust your Amazon royalty rates for six months effective November 1, 2017 through April 30, 2018, to reflect the average royalty rate you earned across all paperback sales of your title through both the CreateSpace eStore and Amazon sales channels (which includes Amazon.com and Amazon Europe) over the last year. For example, if half of your sales for a paperback title were through the CreateSpace eStore, for which you earned an 80% royalty rate, and the other half were through Amazon sales channels, for which you earned a 60% royalty rate, your new royalty rate for sales of that title during this six-month period will be 70%. After April 30, 2018, your royalty rate will revert to the standard Amazon 60% rate.

You can also earn more if you sign up to become an Amazon Associate at https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/.

*The closure of the eStore* will not affect other CreateSpace services. However, if your titles are not available for sale on Amazon.com, you'll need to visit your CreateSpace dashboard and check the box to allow sales through Amazon.com. To learn more about these changes please review our Help page.

https://www.createspace.com/Help/Index.jsp?orgId=00D300000001Sh9&id=50139000000oxUN

Below you'll find the adjusted royalty rates for your impacted titles:

The bolding is mine.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Do we still sell our eBooks that we don't want in direct or KU on CreateSpace?


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

TwistedTales said:


> Do you think they intend to absorb CreateSpace into the new KDP Print?


Yes.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

TwistedTales said:


> Do you think they intend to absorb CreateSpace into the new KDP Print?


Yes.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Flay Otters said:


> Yes.


I said it first!

:--)


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## amdonehere (May 1, 2015)

Can somebody please explain? I wasn't aware that CS pays higher royalty rate than KDP for PBs. So KDP pays lower royalty for PBs


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## Seneca42 (Dec 11, 2016)

saw this coming a mile away. CS will ultimately be absorbed into zon. All we can hope for is that whoever is in charge of CS is put in charge of zon customer service, because the difference is like dining at a 5-star restaurant versus eating out of a garbage can in the alley.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

AlexaKang said:


> Can somebody please explain? I wasn't aware that CS pays higher royalty rate than KDP for PBs. So KDP pays lower royalty for PBs


CreateSpace has always had a store where people could order direct and you made the highest royalty. For my titles that pay $4 or so I could earn I think $9 if they bought direct from CreateSpace. It was never searchable or anything like a real store. You had to point people to it. (I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

I never used it, but it seems others in this thread did.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

color me ignorant, but I wasn't aware of CreateSpace eStore.  Or maybe I did hear of it at one time but never knew what it was.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

We are all grains of shifting sand - Amazon is the ocean.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Closing the e-store I can understand hurts the OP. Although this doesn't mean CS is closing. For a while yet, CS remains an option for printing, but effectively becomes the same as KDP print.

Which means, the goal is to close CS.

What was wrong with CS? I'm sure they were profitable. Probably just another strangle on the publishing process.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Makes me wonder if KDP will be a super-limited distribution scheme: as in, Amazon only.

I make several hundred dollars off paperback sales per month and much of it is exp distro.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

KDP Print should eventually have everything that CreateSpace has, including expanded distribution. They're not there yet, but that is the plan.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

TwistedTales said:


> You probably just pegged their next bait & switch. We're getting good at this game.


Gawd, I hope not. 

But if anything rings true, it is that Zon changes things constantly, and usually not for the better for indies.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

We buy books direct from the CS store at cost for use in book signings, giveaways, etc. 

Will we no longer be able to do that? 

Will we have to pay full price for our own books?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Lynn McNamee said:


> We buy books direct from the CS store at cost for use in book signings, giveaways, etc.
> 
> Will we no longer be able to do that?
> 
> Will we have to pay full price for our own books?


No. I believe author copies are now available through KDP Print (they weren't before). I remember seeing that right before I left for a trip a few weeks ago and I didn't track it all that carefully at the time.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

My biggest issue is that, as a publisher, I give my authors a 55% discount code so they can purchase their own books. 

I'm guessing the CS coupon codes will be useless now. 

Ingram Spark doesn't offer this type of thing. 

So apparently, I'm going to have to buy the books on behalf of my authors when they want copies. That's a lot of extra work!

I am so angry about this!


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Going Incognito said:


> To better serve customers and improve the online buying experience, we will redirect customers who click on your CreateSpace eStore links to their corresponding detail pages on Amazon.com starting October 31, 2017.
> 
> We're making this change based on increasing feedback and requests to add features to the eStore that are currently available on Amazon.com. These features include the ability to search across the site, an improved checkout process, better shipping options including Amazon Prime, order tracking notifications, and a familiar user interface.
> 
> ...


This is not exactly much of a change at all.

I always directed people to amazon.com anyway and never to the estore on createspace.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

thevoiceofone said:


> This is not exactly much of a change at all.
> 
> I always directed people to amazon.com anyway and never to the estore on createspace.


The problem is, it's a start. And it does very much effect some people and companies.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Mark Gardner said:


> If you can wait, Ingram Spark usually has a coupon code for free setup in the first quarter of the year.


You don't have to wait - they are running a promotion now, until the end of November. The promo code is INDIEFRINGE17


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## TheLass (Mar 13, 2016)

Puddleduck said:


> So it sounds like you're mostly upset about this as a small press, not so much as an author. Because obviously that problem right there isn't something most of us will have to deal with.
> 
> I'm not saying I like this change. Just that the reasons you're saying it's terrible don't appear to apply to most of us.


Maybe not, I wonder how many people make use of the coupon codes.

But it does show how little respect they have for authors if they can make such a change with so little warning. Who knows what nasty changes they have in store for the rest of us?


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Colin said:


> I said it first!
> 
> :--)


Yes, but I said it with a playful wink and knowing nod.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

> Finally, it eliminates a methodology for indie authors to sell their paperbacks at a higher royalty and forces everyone into the Amazon ethos


Agreed. My goal is too expand enough that in-person appearances are a viable option. If anything this extends Amazon's reach and influence over indie publishing. It makes me nervous.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Laran Mithras said:


> Closing the e-store I can understand hurts the OP. Although this doesn't mean CS is closing. For a while yet, CS remains an option for printing, but effectively becomes the same as KDP print.
> 
> Which means, the goal is to close CS.
> 
> What was wrong with CS? I'm sure they were profitable. Probably just another strangle on the publishing process.


The difference is you can order cheap author copies from C-space.
Otherwise they are exactly the same thing, effectively.

What happened was a company called CustomFlix was acquired by Amazon in 2005. The plan all along was presumably to fold it into the mothership. We are observing the endgame.
From Wikipedia (List of mergers and acquisitions by Amazon): CreateSpace.com, formerly CustomFlix, a distributor of on-demand DVDs, since expanded to include print on-demand books, CDs, and videos, based in Scotts Valley, California.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I went to KDP to attempt to publish a paperback and see how it works.

This message appears:

_"KDP does not currently support Expanded Distribution, Proofs and Author (wholesale) copies. If these features are important to you, we do not recommend republishing this book on KDP at this time."_

This is a problem publishers and for *all authors *who might want to purchase copies of their own books.

Yes, you can go through Ingram Spark and purchase copies, but from what I've seen, they are more expensive than CS.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Here's a comparison between Ingram & CreateSpace for purchasing your own book(s): (I used one book available at both for this and chose cheapest print and shipping where applicable.)

Ingram order of 1 book: $10.72
CS order of 1 book: $7.72

Ingram order of 10 books: $56.56
CS order of 10 books: $49.29

Ingram order of 25 books: $132.99
CS order of 25 books: $118.73


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2017)

This doesn't bother me. I never used the specific CS store anyway and over the last couple of months I have been slowly moving my books out of CS and over to the KDP dashboard & Ingrams. For me, I'm in a country where I could only get cheques from CS which took months and postage on author copies was astronomical. Like $35 for a single copy. I make most of my paperback sales through ED and Ingrams offers better margins. Using Amazon for their paperbacks makes better economic sense for me.

I'm in a country where ISBNs are free and I wait until Ingrams has a discount code which makes using them free. Plus they print in Australia and author copies are heaps cheaper. I use the KDP paperback interface for Amazon only sales, which also pays for me paperbacks with my ebooks so no more waiting a month for a cheque to turn up and 2 months for it clear.

Like anything you need to look at your sales, examine the options, and determine the route that maximises your return.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> KDP Print should eventually have everything that CreateSpace has, including expanded distribution. They're not there yet, but that is the plan.


the lack of expanded distribution is my biggest issue with KDP Print


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## mojomikey (Apr 9, 2014)

Ingram Spark is waiving their setup fee thru Nov 30 with code INDIEFRINGE17

Lets you load as many books as you want. Good time to switch if you want to.


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## 39416 (Mar 18, 2011)

I know I'm the lone voice in the wilderness here, but as I wasn't interested in Expanded Distribution, I switched all my books over from Createspace to KDP Print a while back and have been very happy with it. The only thing bad I found was the no-proof-copy thing, which they have now rectified. Okay, don't all descend at once! 

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G202132360


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## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

Yeah, I dont think the actual estore closing is going to effect many of us, beyond tumbling Mark's entire operation, it sounds like. But I do think it's the beginning of the end. How long til they stop allowing author copies? Or expanded distribution? How long til CreateSpace doesn't exist at all and it's KDP paperbacks and that's it (between the two, I mean)? Whichever one of the two you chose to use, soon the choice will be taken from you. You'll have to use KDP or switch to a pay to play like IngramSpark. It's another choice taken off the table. Another option taken away. Whether you used to choose to use it or not- soon you won't even have that choice.
Also makes me wonder what changes are in store for Goodreads.


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## SugarBear57 (Aug 28, 2014)

Lora, I hadn't heard about that! I followed their directions on how to do it, and it hasn't been rolled out to my KDP account yet. I'm really looking forward to it.

IngramSpark is not as terrible as it used to be. Nook Press is still free, if you don't mind tangling with extremely ineffective author support. There are other options if you're willing to learn new systems.


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## djproctor (Mar 30, 2017)

I've worked with Lulu.com for over ten years, and have set up books there available by direct download only to provide at cost or discounted books. So that could be one option. There is also Publishers Graphics, which I haven't worked with in several years just because I changed how I do some things, but they are great and now offer even more services than when I worked with them in the past. They don't have setup fees, or at least didn't use to.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

Well, well, well. my idea is looking a little less crazy now, isn't it?

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,255439.msg3559440.html#msg3559440


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

mojomikey said:


> Ingram Spark is waiving their setup fee thru Nov 30 with code INDIEFRINGE17
> 
> Lets you load as many books as you want. Good time to switch if you want to.


Even better: 'Upload your book for free and get free revisions on your book between November 1, 2017 - March 31, 2018 with promo code "NANO17".' 

Also never used the eStore myself, but *ouch* for those who did. That's a serious blow to some business models and a painful one :-(

It does seem like a sign that the merge of CS into KDP Print is likely to happen sometime in 2018. I've always used Ingram for all non-Amazon print stuff, so I'm less concerned about the lack of expanded with KDP Print...but the lack of author copies and whether KDP Print will continue to stupidity with barcodes that CS started is another matter.



Lorri Moulton said:


> If Createspace goes out of business, do all the ISBNs they have filed for authors' works revert to Amazon?


If you mean the free and the former $10 ones, Amazon has always owned them. So authors never had any rights to them anyway, hence why you weren't allowed to take them to another printer. The $99 ones were done through Bowker on the author's behalf and should already belong fully to that author.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

Ingram are positioning themselves to compete directly with Amazon on POD - I have a voucher code for free set-ups from a publishing event I attended last month, and I suspect that such codes will be raining like candy in the not too distant future. They have an ex-Createspace director on board who knows the market. Createspace's days are numbered, because it's a muddled halfway house with a website that's not been updated in at least 4 years. Amazon hope that by bringing their paperback offering in-house and offering everything through a single dashboard as they do with KDP print, they can see off the challenge.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

TwistedTales said:


> Due to Amazon's lack of transparency, outright misleading behavior, one sided TOS, and bully-boy tactics, I will never willingly choose Amazon over another *equal* supplier.


The best thing any indie could do.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

This...sucks..

I was an ebook seller through mobipocket.com before Amazon absorbed it into KDP. I made a lot of money with Mobipocket though wholesale distribution. They did the SAME THING then. We got like two weeks notice but promised us a "smooth transition" and that they would port all of our titles automatically to Amazon.

My ebooks were unavailable for sale on Amazon for WEEKS. I lost all of the revenue from the other third-party retailers that used Mobipocket to get their books. I actually lost money on KDP because even though you get 70%, you lose money on discounts. When my ebooks were in mobipocket, they were distributed under wholesale deals so when retailers placed my stuff on sale, I make the same money.

This...sucks...

And, of course, this drops on Friday the 13th.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

Mark Gardner said:


> I thought of another way that Amazon is kicking me in the sack over this: I now have no way for my collaborators to purchase at cost a copy of one of the books that they collaborated on.


This is a problem for me, too. All of my contributors currently use CS to buy copies at cost or discount rates. I also have some hobby shops that buy my book using discount codes. Now I have to process those as sales myself. For contributors, it becomes a matter of more paperwork for me. OK. That I can handle. But for the hobby shops, now I have to go through the entire process of having them send me their tax resale certs and filing more tax forms with the state of *************.


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

Can someone tell me where the best place to order author copies is?  All of my books except for my new release have been kdp print and I've never had the option to order author copies.


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

Lauriejoyeltahs said:


> To the right on your bookshelf it's in the options under the three dots- at least for my nonfiction it is. I don't have anything else live, but I published the nf last fall before I had even heard of creatspace and was planning to use kdp anyway. Author copies at cost are a nice addition.


Interesting. It must only be available for certain users at the moment. I'm going to email them and see if they can add me to it.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

I haven't even gotten any notice from Createspace about this. Is it going out in email batches?


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## Tonya Snow-Cook (Jul 3, 2017)

SugarBear57 said:


> Lora, I hadn't heard about that! I followed their directions on how to do it, and it hasn't been rolled out to my KDP account yet. I'm really looking forward to it.


Same here. No option for this yet, but I just sent KDP Support an email inquiring about this option and asked if it's only rolled out to certain people initially or is it just a glitch in the system. I also included the link to that article in the email. We'll see what they say.


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

I was skeptical when Amazon said they were eventually going to make proof and author copies available through KDP Print. Well, now they have. They also said months ago that expanded distribution would eventually be part of the package. At the risk of sounding overly optimistic, we can't be sure at this point that expanded distribution won't be part of the eventual package.

As far as Amazon's possible desire to be a monopoly, CS is already part of Amazon.  In that respect, all Amazon is doing is shifting business from one pocket to another. I don't see how that gives them a larger hold on the print business than they already had. What it does do, assuming Amazon wants to be dominant, is give Amazon an incentive to stay competitive with other options. If Ingram-Spark does indeed start raining coupon codes, my bet is KDP Print will develop coupon codes.

Yes, Amazon has shown it isn't any more trustworthy than any other large corporation. It will do what it perceives will increase power and profit. However, in POD distribution, it's not the only game in town, and never will be. (I don't see Ingram-Spark going out of business, no matter what Amazon does.) The only thing keeping authors with CS is that it had the necessary features and the lowest production costs. If Kindle Print doesn't maintain that position by the time CS shuts down, authors will flock to alternatives.

As far as the KU comparison is concerned, I don't think it's entirely accurate. Authors can conceivably lose something by leaving KU. Not everyone does as well wide as they do from KU (even now--though that may not always be true). What do authors lose by having paperbacks printed by Ingram-Spark if Amazon isn't providing what they need? Absolutely nothing.

Of course, what may happen in the future doesn't help people like Mark and Julie right now. As a community of authors, we should keep nagging Amazon to add the necessary features to KDP Print.


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Speaking of working as an author community, retweet Mark's tweet. It only takes a minutes.


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## Tonya Snow-Cook (Jul 3, 2017)

Okay, so I just got a quick reply from KDP Support regarding the _Author Copies_ feature. As I suspected, it's only rolled out to limited publishers for now. Here's the reply:

*Hello,

Thanks for contacting Amazon KDP. I hope this email finds you well.

Thanks for your interest in author copies. Author copies are a beta feature we are testing with selected publishers. We're working to make it more widely available.

You will need to order your book on Amazon.com at the retail price.

I hope this information helps.

Thanks for using Amazon KDP. Have a lovely weekend.*


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## AnnetteL (Jul 14, 2010)

Well, crap. I've been away from KB for a spell, and I come back to learn this. (Good thing I did!) 

RT-ed Mark's tweet!


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

Bill Hiatt said:


> As far as Amazon's possible desire to be a monopoly, CS is already part of Amazon.


Createspace is a separately owned subsidiary, which is not the same thing as "being part of Amazon." Both Dove and Lipton are subsidiaries of Unilever, but nobody would ever say Dove was part of Lipton. They function as separate entities.

In that respect, a lot of bookstores, despite some claims to the contrary, were happy to stock CS titles because they understood CS as just the printer. Even BN and Walmart list CS titles on their websites. More importantly, most casual customers don't really connect CS with Amazon. Again, CS was simply a printer and distro service.

By moving print into Amazon, everything will now have Amazon-centric branding. If you think it was tough convincing people to stock books that said "fullfilled by Createspace" what do you think will happen when it says "fullfilled by Amazon."?

You may not remember, but at one time Amazon also promised that kindle titles would be distributed to other outlets. We all know that never happened.


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## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

Mark Gardner said:


> Here's the link to the announcement: https://www.createspace.com/Help/Index.jsp?orgId=00D300000001Sh9&id=50139000000oxUN
> 
> In mine, they only listed about 8 books out of all of mine:
> 
> ...


Apparently I had 1 impacted book, lol. And its adjusted royalty rate? 61%

And if I had a Twitter account, I'd retweet.


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## Tonya Snow-Cook (Jul 3, 2017)

Lauriejoyeltahs said:


> Hmm wonder why I was included then. My nonfiction sells one or two paperbacks a month and an occasional ebook. Nothing to talk about in anyway.


It's possible that "nonfiction" is their first demographic. I couldn't say. It'd be interesting to see if others here have the option available to them. Some have already remarked that they do not.


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Createspace is a separately owned subsidiary, which is not the same thing as "being part of Amazon." Both Dove and Lipton are subsidiaries of Unilever, but nobody would ever say Dove was part of Lipton. They function as separate entities.
> 
> In that respect, a lot of bookstores, despite some claims to the contrary, were happy to stock CS titles because they understood CS as just the printer. Even BN and Walmart list CS titles on their websites. More importantly, most casual customers don't really connect CS with Amazon. Again, CS was simply a printer and distro service.
> 
> ...


You're making an excellent point about distribution. All I was saying originally, however, was that the shift from CS to KDP wasn't a question of Amazon moving closer to monopoly. From a legal standpoint, is there a difference between a wholly owned subsidiary and the parent company?


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Tonya Snow-Cook said:


> Okay, so I just got a quick reply from KDP Support regarding the _Author Copies_ feature. As I suspected, it's only rolled out to limited publishers for now. Here's the reply:
> 
> *Hello,
> 
> ...


One might well ask what is there to beta test on a service CS has been doing successfully for years? That is annoying. I suppose Amazon won't shut down CS before they take the author copies out of beta, but it's still a weird way to do business.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

For those of you who are going to use the Ingram coupon INDIEFRINGE17, you might want to consider publishing hardcovers of your books if you're considering placement in libraries. I had a hardcover made for one of my books that has gotten orders.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Imagine Walmart wanting to stock CS paperbacks now being forced to stock KDP paperbacks. I think that just ended right there. Certainly, any company wanting to compete with Amazon eventually will have to offer their own print services.

Amazon just made competition harder. Smart move on their part.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Lynn McNamee said:


> I went to KDP to attempt to publish a paperback and see how it works.
> 
> This message appears:
> 
> ...


That's a problem . I would be very nervous about selling a book if I hadn't first seen a proof copy.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

I'm making my assumption based on policies like Apple's where nothing can come from Amazon or even contain links to Amazon. Maybe Walmart wouldn't care.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Laran Mithras said:


> Imagine Walmart wanting to stock CS paperbacks now being forced to stock KDP paperbacks. I think that just ended right there. Certainly, any company wanting to compete with Amazon eventually will have to offer their own print services.
> 
> Amazon just made competition harder. Smart move on their part.


Walmart sells my books in paperback, also one in hardcover. They are from Ingram. I could be wrong, but I doubt that Walmart buys books from Create Space.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

Bill Hiatt said:


> You're making an excellent point about distribution. All I was saying originally, however, was that the shift from CS to KDP wasn't a question of Amazon moving closer to monopoly. From a legal standpoint, is there a difference between a wholly owned subsidiary and the parent company?


I'm not a corporate attorney. I do know that a few times when my current employer (which is a Fortune 500 company) bought out competitors, there was a lot of back and forth about which companies would continue to function as separate entities and which would be folded under the main company umbrella. There were actually a few times where we ended up "in competition" with our own subsidiaries over certain accounts. I'm sure the individual autonomy of the subsidiary is a factor.

The primary thing is that as an independent subsidiary, CS could make decisions in the best interest of their customers (publishers). And I will say that they ALWAYS took good care of me from a business perspective. I've always felt I was a partner with CS, not a number. Folding this into KDP means Amazon will do what is best for their customers (customers, NOT publishers). I have never felt that KDP was my partner or that they cared one way or the other about me as an individual. So I think it is a huge problem and those of us accustomed to working with CS are going to suffer a huge cut in actual service.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

Marian said:


> Walmart sells my books in paperback, also one in hardcover. They are from Ingram. I could be wrong, but I doubt that Walmart buys books from Create Space.


They do. Almost all online retailers will list Createspace books. I have books on Walmart.com and everywhere that are currently produced by CS.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Marian said:


> Walmart sells my books in paperback, also one in hardcover. They are from Ingram. I could be wrong, but I doubt that Walmart buys books from Create Space.


Walmart have four of my CreateSpace paperbacks for sale online

(a book on the same page as mine has a spelling mistake in the title 'A Feburary Bride' published by Harper Collins )


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> (a book on the same page as mine has a spelling mistake in the title 'A Feburary Bride' published by Harper Collins )


Ah, traditional publishing!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Marian said:


> Ah, traditional publishing!


The mistake is not on the actual cover, so it might be a Walmart mistake, but someone at HP should be checking for this sort of thing.


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The primary thing is that as an independent subsidiary, CS could make decisions in the best interest of their customers (publishers). And I will say that they ALWAYS took good care of me from a business perspective. I've always felt I was a partner with CS, not a number. Folding this into KDP means Amazon will do what is best for their customers (customers, NOT publishers). I have never felt that KDP was my partner or that they cared one way or the other about me as an individual. So I think it is a huge problem and those of us accustomed to working with CS are going to suffer a huge cut in actual service.


Sadly, you're probably right about that. From the beginning, I hoped that enough people would stay away from KDP Print to cause it to fail. Unfortunately, most new publishers wouldn't notice the difference.


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## Loosecannon (May 9, 2013)

@Mark:
I think a bunch of folks in this thread think that "Createspace eStore" = Discounted author copies, which it does not. The 'eStores' they are talking about are the 1-page landing pages you can optionally create for Createspace title where the publisher/author makes a higher royalty rate. (example eStore page: https://www.createspace.com/4822707 ) This is totally different and separate from *author copies* sold direct by Createspace.

I do realize that you are using eStore+coupon codes to sell to middle men or indie store, but that can still be done by you via drop shipping aka you pay and ship to the buyer's address, then invoice them method for bulk orders. True it is more work, and yep most likely thta will go away in the near future due to the inevitable KDP Print transition.


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## John Hartness (Aug 3, 2009)

I can't really imagine anyone was surprised by this, were they? This has been the obvious next step since the day they launched KDP Print. It only makes sense to consolidate the personnel once they acquired CreateSpace. 

I switched all our titles over to Ingram this summer, and saw a fairly significant uptick in bookstore sales, thanks to those vendors who refused to buy from an Amazon subsidiary. Admittedly, print is a very tiny portion of our business, but I have ben very pleased with Ingram since moving to them for print. 

Also, the Alliance of Independent Authors has a promo code for unlimited free uploads to Ingram for their members, so you can join up and not have to wait for the Ingram codes. I'd wait until all the codes died away to sign up, but it more than pays for itself, since membership is $99 and that is covered with two uploads. I don't really know what else the organization does - I'm just there for the codes.  

It's a little more work on the back end to sell author copies, but Ingram will drop ship, so I just bill my authors, they pay me, and I get the books shipped. It hasn't been a big deal so far, but like I said, we're not moving that many print books. And as far as booking author events, well, that works with Ingram too. The bookstore orders through Ingram like they do for any other event, and you get your royalty.  

So while I hate that some folks will have to change their operations, it may actually work out better for a lot of folks that only worked through CS in the past to switch over to Ingram.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

John Hartness said:


> I can't really imagine anyone was surprised by this, were they? This has been the obvious next step since the day they launched KDP Print.


*No one* is surprised. They're just aggravated with how Amazon is going about it.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

Two weeks of warning seems to be what Amazon considers "reasonable" to give indies; that's about what we get regarding KU changes, too, isn't it?


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## Loosecannon (May 9, 2013)

Yeah, I hear ya Mark...it is frustrating when we have to change methods and us little guys in the supply chain _always_ get the shortest end of the stick. Like when Audible decided to cut off escalator royalties...

FYI - Regarding the taxes thing of ordering bulk copies, I ran into that headache recently too but did discover there is a way to get them waived at Createspace by file a resale certificate with them. Info on that from one of their Help pages :

For wholesale orders, if you're exempt from sales tax, you can submit the appropriate Uniform Sales and Use Tax Certificate to the address or fax number below:

CreateSpace
Attn: Customer Service
4900 LaCross Road
North Charleston, SC 29406
Fax: (206) 922-5928

Once you submit the form, allow one week for processing. If you have questions, refer to the form instructions or your state's Department of Revenue.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Kat M said:


> It's $49 a book to set up a print title there, though, right? For someone like me who has 9 POD titles (most of these are republished from traditional publishing rights that were reverted to me) that's a big investment to make all at one time. I value Create Space's extended distribution but to try to match that elsewhere...well, I can't see a financially viable alternative.


If you use the promo code INDIEFRINGE17, you can set up your titles on Ingram for free.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Is the set up process for a new paperback book on Amazon identical to that of CreateSpace?

I'm very comfortable with the CreateSpace set up prcoess now and would hope not to have to learn a new process.

Philip


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

TOS.


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## Pacman (Dec 18, 2016)

Lynn McNamee said:


> I went to KDP to attempt to publish a paperback and see how it works.
> 
> This message appears:
> 
> _"KDP does not currently support Expanded Distribution, Proofs and Author (wholesale) copies. If these features are important to you, we do not recommend republishing this book on KDP at this time."_


More than 50% of my book income is thru CS, paperbacks sell extremely well for non fiction. KDP simply doesn't cut it and Amazon should be ashamed to be so far behind the play with indie publishers.

"Amazon don't you get it, indies help make you great. Either pick up your game with KDP or just leave it if it ain't broke."


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Lauriejoyeltahs said:


> From the sounds of things, it is much simpler. It's almost identical to uploading an ebook on Amazon, and if you do it after the ebook (click start print version) it carries over all your title, descriptive and category information.


What about removing the TOC links for the print version - is it easy to do?


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> What about removing the TOC links for the print version - is it easy to do?


Jan, you do that when you make your PDF, not through the KDP upload. POD books aren't formatted like ebooks. All Amazon would do, I'm guessing, is the stuff that's already available through their upload process, so categories, blurb, keywords maybe?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

she-la-ti-da said:


> Jan, you do that when you make your PDF, not through the KDP upload. POD books aren't formatted like ebooks. All Amazon would do, I'm guessing, is the stuff that's already available through their upload process, so categories, blurb, keywords maybe?


Thanks. I used Word for both ebooks and print versions using CreateSpace. I formatted them both myself separately. I was just wondering if KDP automatically uses the ebook version for print, and if you get the opportunity to make changes and how easy that would be. I'm planning a non-fiction book that will have links between chapters that will have to be removed for the print version.


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## spellscribe (Nov 5, 2015)

Tilly said:


> I'm in a country where ISBNs are free


Wait WHAT??

ETA: damn, I always forget you're in NZ, not Aus. Still, I just looked up the price here and it's not tooo bad ($88/10)


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Thanks. I used Word for both ebooks and print versions using CreateSpace. I formatted them both myself separately. I was just wondering if KDP automatically uses the ebook version for print, and if you get the opportunity to make changes and how easy that would be. I'm planning a non-fiction book that will have links between chapters that will have to be removed for the print version.


No - for KDP print you still have to upload a file as part of the process. I suppose it could be the same as your ebook file but that isn't a good idea for all kinds of reasons, some of which have already been mentioned.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

cecilia_writer said:


> No - for KDP print you still have to upload a file as part of the process. I suppose it could be the same as your ebook file but that isn't a good idea for all kinds of reasons, some of which have already been mentioned.


OK. Thanks


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

cecilia_writer said:


> No - for KDP print you still have to upload a file as part of the process. I suppose it could be the same as your ebook file but that isn't a good idea for all kinds of reasons, some of which have already been mentioned.


You could set up the CreateSpace book using Word then import that title into KDP Print. I imported two books into KDP print. One was an industry-standard PDF originally produced for IngramSpark and one was a Word upload to CreateSpace.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Mercia McMahon said:


> You could set up the CreateSpace book using Word then import that title into KDP Print. I imported two books into KDP print. One was an industry-standard PDF originally produced for IngramSpark and one was a Word upload to CreateSpace.


Thanks. I've been using Word to upload to CreateSpace, but I was wondering if I will be able to do the same with the KDP print and upload using Word.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Is there an online previewer for KDP print books?  I really need that function - the formatting needs for my print books is way different to my Kindle books. I don't see how they could automatically transfer from Kindle to print and have the appropriate formatting.

Philip


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2017)

"If you use the promo code INDIEFRINGE17, you can set up your titles on Ingram for free."

Thanks for this! At some other time I'd probably jump on it but I'm up to my ears in a grant deadline (already way behind). Between that and some heavy real-life stuff going on it'll be months before I have time to tackle setting up nine titles. Guess I'll have to take stock in a few months and see where things stand then.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Kat M said:


> "If you use the promo code INDIEFRINGE17, you can set up your titles on Ingram for free."
> 
> Thanks for this! At some other time I'd probably jump on it but I'm up to my ears in a grant deadline (already way behind). Between that and some heavy real-life stuff going on it'll be months before I have time to tackle setting up nine titles. Guess I'll have to take stock in a few months and see where things stand then.


Ingram Spark offer this deal about once every six months, one around the time of the Indie Fringe in October and one around the time of London's Indie Author Fringe in March.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Wow, most of my print nonfiction sells very well. But these reference books would do better as hardcovers for library sales so this may just kick me in the ass-ets to go that route with Ingram Spark. Already a member of ALLi anyway. *s*


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2017)

Mercia McMahon said:


> Ingram Spark offer this deal about once every six months, one around the time of the Indie Fringe in October and one around the time of London's Indie Author Fringe in March.


There is also a code for NaNo, because they are a sponsor. I posted it earlier, but here it is again: "Upload your book for free and get free revisions on your book between November 1, 2017 - March 31, 2018 with promo code 'NANO17'."

There is almost always a code available to get around the fee. And I'd still rather pay the $49 fee versus the huge chunk per book CreateSpace took out for "expanded" distro which was just sending it to Ingram for you.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2017)

Ooh, thank you, Mercia - I'll look out for it in March!


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## notjohn (Sep 9, 2016)

Cassie Leigh said:


> CreateSpace has always had a store where people could order direct and you made the highest royalty. For my titles that pay $4 or so I could earn I think $9 if they bought direct from CreateSpace. It was never searchable or anything like a real store. You had to point people to it. (I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
> 
> I never used it, but it seems others in this thread did.


That's right -- the only point of it is to use a coupon code on your website and/or in your newsletter, biz card, etc. I've had a $2 coupon for any of my books since I began distributing through CS, but to the best of my knowledge I have never sold a copy that way. So it's no loss to me, except that I have to take down the $2 OFF! page on my website.

Since most of my books are non-fiction, I do very well from CS. A few titles have always sold better in print than in digital format, and in December sometimes I have actually earned more from CS than from KDP.

I think I'll bite the bullet and go over to IngramSpark to set up one title there, while there's no setup charge, so I'll know how it's done. Then in March I'll move everything over.

Sigh. Being an author is easy, compared to what a publisher has to put up with....


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## Joseph Malik (Jul 12, 2016)

judygoodwin said:


> Has anyone compared the look of the covers between CS and Ingram?


Toyota vs. Lexus.

When I put my CS proof next to my Ingram proof, the CS cover makes me feel like my glasses are slipping. We used identical cover art for both except for the bar code placement, but it looks like we used two different resolutions. (Remember the first time you saw a 4K display? Ingram's printing is like that. My Ingram cover looks like you could walk into the landscape.)

You'll have to adjust your spine size, though; Ingram uses heavier paper. As a result, the books feel more substantial when you flip through them.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Marian said:


> If you use the promo code INDIEFRINGE17, you can set up your titles on Ingram for free.





Anma Natsu said:


> There is also a code for NaNo, because they are a sponsor. I posted it earlier, but here it is again: "Upload your book for free and get free revisions on your book between November 1, 2017 - March 31, 2018 with promo code 'NANO17'."
> 
> There is almost always a code available to get around the fee. And I'd still rather pay the $49 fee versus the huge chunk per book CreateSpace took out for "expanded" distro which was just sending it to Ingram for you.


Thanks!


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## The Wyoming Kid (Jun 18, 2017)

I just went to Ingram and entered the parameters for one of my books, calculating the cost for 5.25x8 paperback, b&w, standard stuff, etc. They want $13 for one copy. CS was about half that. Am I missing something? Please enlighten me.

Also, just for grins, I entered the data for hardcover and they want just under $50 for one copy!


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2017)

The Wyoming Kid said:


> I just went to Ingram and entered the parameters for one of my books, calculating the cost for 5.25x8 paperback, b&w, standard stuff, etc. They want $13 for one copy. CS was about half that. Am I missing something? Please enlighten me.
> 
> Also, just for grins, I entered the data for hardcover and they want just under $50 for one copy!


The last author copy I bought from Ingram, I paid $10.86 WITH shipping. 300 page book, B&W interior. Same book was $8.08 from CS, again with the shipping cost included. Take out the shipping equation and it was $5.41 and $4.49 per copy, respectively. Not nearly that significant a difference.

As for my hardback, it was $12.20 per book, plus shipping. I did the cloth cover, full dust jacket, and it was 390 pages.

Are you using the Print & Shipping Calculator, or the Publisher Compensation calculator? The former gets you the author copy cost, with shipping (and if you are not in the US, make sure to change the Printing location accordingly), the latter shows the actual book cost and lets you see earnings per copy based on how you price it and what options you set. IS is higher with the shipping on author copies, especially singles. Not as bad when buying in bulk.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

You can still create paperbacks with Createspace, as of now, same as always.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

The Wyoming Kid said:


> I just went to Ingram and entered the parameters for one of my books, calculating the cost for 5.25x8 paperback, b&w, standard stuff, etc. They want $13 for one copy. CS was about half that. Am I missing something? Please enlighten me.
> 
> Also, just for grins, I entered the data for hardcover and they want just under $50 for one copy!


Change the amount of discount you are giving to retailers.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Shelley K said:


> You can still create paperbacks with Createspace, as of now, same as always.


Until it's not. And therein is the problem.

With the abrupt closure of the estore, Amazon has put everyone on notice that Createspace is going to be closed. It may not happen this week or before the end of the year. But it is going to happen. For those of us that sell well through expanded distribution, this is a problem. I plan my publishing schedule A YEAR IN ADVANCE. I have business plans that require months of advanced planning. Amazon has demonstrated that it is not a reliable business partner (again) and I can not count on Createspace as a stable platform for my print products.

One of the hobby shops that purchased directly from me via the estore contacted Createspace about getting set up as a reseller so they could buy books through the expanded distro option. They were told that "at this time" Createspace is not accepting new reseller applications. And when I sent a question regarding my ability to continue buying copies of my own books, I was told that "publishers will continue to be able to purchase proof copies for review." When I followed up with "I didn't ask about proofs. I asked if I can continue to purchase bulk orders or single copies of my own books as needed" I was told they would 'escalate' my question.

So no, not same as always.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Until it's not. And therein is the problem.
> 
> With the abrupt closure of the estore, Amazon has put everyone on notice that Createspace is going to be closed. It may not happen this week or before the end of the year. But it is going to happen. For those of us that sell well through expanded distribution, this is a problem. I plan my publishing schedule A YEAR IN ADVANCE. I have business plans that require months of advanced planning. Amazon has demonstrated that it is not a reliable business partner (again) and I can not count on Createspace as a stable platform for my print products.
> 
> ...


It might close at some point in the future, but I doubt it's before KDP print does about everything that Createspace does, like expanded distribution, proof copies, etc.


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## Chrissy (Mar 31, 2014)

Shelley K said:


> It might close at some point in the future, but I doubt it's before KDP print does about everything that Createspace does, like expanded distribution, proof copies, etc.


Do you really think that Amazon is going to add the Createspace EStore functionality (that everyone is lamenting about going away) into KDP print?

I don't think so.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Chrissy said:


> Do you really think that Amazon is going to add the Createspace EStore functionality (that everyone is lamenting about going away) into KDP print?
> 
> I don't think so.


I think it's possible to likely.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

In today's WALL STREET JOURNAL,  there was an article about the book business in the Business Section. According to the article, sales of ebooks are down 17% over the past year, and sales of paperbacks/hardcovers are up. According to the article, digital reading isn't as popular as it was. It's something to think about...


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## Sarah Shaw (Feb 14, 2015)

Marian said:


> In today's WALL STREET JOURNAL, there was an article about the book business in the Business Section. According to the article, sales of ebooks are down 17% over the past year, and sales of paperbacks/hardcovers are up. According to the article, digital reading isn't as popular as it was. It's something to think about...


Eh, they do this every year. They throw up the numbers for print books against the numbers for _digital books with ISBNs_ (which few Indies bother with) and then trumpet the supposed declining readership. I buy exclusively digital now, but very few trad published ones because I'm not willing to pay the same or more for a digital copy that I don't own, can't easily lend to whoever I chose, and can't resell. Plus, the last trad published ebook I bought was practically unreadable due to terrible formatting. I ended up buying my first print book in years because I really, really wanted to read it. So yes, my readership of trad published digital books is low and continues to decline.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

There's also this study of college students where physical books were the preferred choice of 92% of the respondents: http://beta.latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-92-percent-college-students-prefer-paper-over-pixels-20160208-story.html and one (https://qz.com/930173/kids-still-prefer-paper-books-to-screens-according-to-a-new-study/) that found "that the more devices a child had access to, the less they read in general. It suggests that providing children with eReading devices can actually inhibit their reading, and that paper books are often still preferred by young people."


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Yeah, but once those college students have jobs, commutes and have to pay for their own books, how will that shift? I don't think print will ever go away but I think it will turn into something else, with POD kiosks in various places featuring catalogs of thousands (even millions) of books that are printed on the spot. Also, for the other stories citing physical book increases, as others have mentioned most indie books don't have ISBNs and aren't counted at all in those surveys and the adult coloring book explosion helped inflate print numbers. Print books aren't going anywhere, but neither are ebooks.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

> Yeah, but once those college students have jobs, commutes and have to pay for their own books, how will that shift?


Or will it? It could well be that digital's potential appeal has been overestimated.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

> I have yet to meet anyone that has tried digital and stayed with it for more than a week or two who has later decided they liked paper better.


Right here! I like paper better  I read ebooks sometimes but I vastly prefer reading from paper and I definitely find this is true of my young nieces and nephews too (like the stats show).


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Kat M said:


> Or will it? It could well be that digital's potential appeal has been overestimated.


I don't see how since the ease of ebooks vastly outweighs the ease of paperbacks, especially now. We live in a "I want it now" society. I don't see that changing. Believing that print books will somehow recover and oust ebooks is akin to believing that DVDs will outlast digital movies or that CDs will outlast digital tracks. Ease of storage and reducing clutter are merely two reasons that will simply not happen on any front.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Paperbacks and hardbacks are bulky and heavy. Digital is the weight of your phone or tablet and you can have hundreds of books on it to read.

That said, I always order paperbacks.   I'm old fashioned. My only digital nod is reading competition for research.


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## The Wyoming Kid (Jun 18, 2017)

The Wyoming Kid said:


> I just went to Ingram and entered the parameters for one of my books, calculating the cost for 5.25x8 paperback, b&w, standard stuff, etc. They want $13 for one copy. CS was about half that. Am I missing something? Please enlighten me.
> 
> Also, just for grins, I entered the data for hardcover and they want just under $50 for one copy!





Anma Natsu said:


> Are you using the Print & Shipping Calculator, or the Publisher Compensation calculator? The former gets you the author copy cost, with shipping (and if you are not in the US, make sure to change the Printing location accordingly), the latter shows the actual book cost and lets you see earnings per copy based on how you price it and what options you set.


 I used the Print & Shipping Calculator. Because I can't decipher the Kboards method of posting images, I'll type it manually off the screenshot.

1 B&W 5.25 x 8 in or 203 x 133 mm usually ships in Unit selling price: $7.05
Perfect Bound on Creme w/gloss lam 482 pages 5 business days Handling fee: 1.99
Subtotal: 9.04
Shipping: 3.80
Tax: .63
Total: $13.47

That's waaaaay more than CS charges. I must be missing something here, because nobody would pay that much for a single author copy. I need a proof copy to check for errors in formatting and printing, and frequently I will make changes and order another proof copy. Maybe even a third.


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## Mercedes Vox (Jul 22, 2014)

<perhaps not germane to the conversation>


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2017)

Lynna said:


> Do they have the option to go digital or are their parents supplying them with only paper? My niece is just the opposite. She loves her tablet. She's 7.


I have 2 boys (11 and 15) both are voracious readers. Both have ipads with the kindle app but when I say I can send a book to their device they *prefer* a paperback. Which is actually a pain. Firstly we are an episode of Hoarders waiting to happen. Paperbacks are lovely, but when there are no second hand bookstores what on earth do you do with several thousand paperbacks you have collected over 30 years? We have a library with floor to ceiling bookshelves that are double stacked. Overflow is stored in the top of wardrobes and bookshelves in every other room and paperbacks keep coming into the house. It's becoming a big issue here because they only option is to throw read books in the recycling bin and that feels so wrong...

Secondly we live in a country where it takes Amazon about a month to get a paperback here and postage is usually more than the cost of the book. Ebooks win on simple math. I can have 1 paperback in a month's time for $30 ($15 book and $15 postage) or I can buy several ebooks and have them now. Plus ebooks sit on my device and I don't risk them toppling over and crushing me! lol


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## Scott Reeves (May 27, 2011)

Lynna said:


> I have yet to meet anyone that has tried digital and stayed with it for more than a week or two who has later decided they liked paper better.


Hello, nice to meet you.


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## IoneKeeling (Oct 14, 2017)

Marian said:


> In today's WALL STREET JOURNAL, there was an article about the book business in the Business Section. According to the article, sales of ebooks are down 17% over the past year, and sales of paperbacks/hardcovers are up. According to the article, digital reading isn't as popular as it was. It's something to think about...


How much of that is the fact that people are borrowing books via subscription models as opposed to buying them? Subscription model takes books off other stores if in KU, and some KU authors have very lopsided sales versus borrow numbers. Add to that the ISBN issue.

As to young people reading habits -- I don't know if my 28yo son counts. He still favors (but not exclusively) print over ebooks. Part of that is appearance, I think, part of it also because he reads a lot of non-fiction. For me, I can't hold a print book long enough to read it with any enjoyment. Books that run past 500 pages can be too painful to pick up at all. With an ever aging population, I'm not worried about ebooks diminishing in number of readers (just worry about number of paying readers).


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Marian said:


> In today's WALL STREET JOURNAL, there was an article about the book business in the Business Section. According to the article, sales of ebooks are down 17% over the past year, and sales of paperbacks/hardcovers are up. According to the article, digital reading isn't as popular as it was. It's something to think about...


That is the intended result. When indie authors point out that ebooks have low per unit costs what they forget is the high per unit warehousing costs that trade publishing have to pay for print, but not ebooks. They want print books to sell so they clear the storage by a method other than the recycling bin or bookstore returns.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

The Wyoming Kid said:


> I need a proof copy to check for errors in formatting and printing, and frequently I will make changes and order another proof copy. Maybe even a third.


^this^


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## Sarah Shaw (Feb 14, 2015)

Kat M said:


> Or will it? It could well be that digital's potential appeal has been overestimated.


As an older person and one who travels a lot, I think if anything it's been underestimated. Being able to adjust the print size is absolutely priceless when you start to develop farsightedness. Or when you have low vision, like my brother-in-law. I feel fortunate to belong to the first generation never to have had to wait for a large-size print book to come out- and to be able to carry my entire library with me to the beach.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I prefer paper for reference books, and for books I'm likely to go back and re-read. My kindle books I consider almost disposable books - read once, enjoyed during the reading, but most likely forgotten while I go on to the next bit of brain candy.

Largely, this is because I don't have any more room on my shelves. Our whole house is literally one big library (except the living room, which is where the DVDs stack up the way books do in the other rooms.)


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Tilly said:


> Paperbacks are lovely, but when there are no second hand bookstores what on earth do you do with several thousand paperbacks you have collected over 30 years? We have a library with floor to ceiling bookshelves that are double stacked. Overflow is stored in the top of wardrobes and bookshelves in every other room and paperbacks keep coming into the house.


That sounds exactly like me--except I found some deep book cases in which I could triple-stack! Every wall space that could fit a book case has one. I'm not a hoarder, and I have gotten rid of books occasionally, but only ones I really didn't like.

Though I prefer paper in theory, most of my recent purchases have been ebooks because I am running out of room. For the casual reader who wants to read and then pass on or discard, the format may not be as important, but for the person who cherishes books and won't let go of them easily, ebooks are preferable to crowding oneself out of one's own house.

(Also, looking things up in a reference work is so much easier with searchable text!)


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Bill Hiatt said:


> (Also, looking things up in a reference work is so much easier with searchable text!)


I'm afraid my much treasured gardening and cookery books are now gathering dust because it's so much easier to Google stuff


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Kat M said:


> An ebook never feels permanent to me. In time the formats will change the way they did with music and movies, devices malfunction and vendors go out of business etc. My husband has an old ereader that won't load epub4 which is a pain in the butt since there are quite alot of books he can't buy now.


You don't say how old or what kind of e-reader your husband has, but e-readers have been able to display EPUB2 files for numerous years now, and virtually all EPUB3 files have coding inside them, also for several years, that allows EPUB2 devices to display them correctly, especially if they have the latest software upgrade.

Perhaps that's what your husband's e-reader needs.

P.S. There is no EPUB4... yet.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Folks, I'm going to split off the discussion of ereading vs. paper, as initiated by the mention of the Wall Street Journal article, so that this thread can remain focused on the closing of the Createspace store and what, if anything, authors should do in response. Look for the ereading/paper debate under the new thread title "Wall Street Journal article on decline in ereading."

ETA: I'm getting an error message when I try to split off the selected posts. Stay tuned ... one of the other mods will give it a try.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Tilly said:


> Firstly we are an episode of Hoarders waiting to happen. Paperbacks are lovely, but when there are no second hand bookstores what on earth do you do with several thousand paperbacks you have collected over 30 years? We have a library with floor to ceiling bookshelves that are double stacked. Overflow is stored in the top of wardrobes and bookshelves in every other room and paperbacks keep coming into the house. It's becoming a big issue here because they only option is to throw read books in the recycling bin and that feels so wrong...


Not sure where you live, but many local libraries take donations of books. Obviously they don't put them into circulation on their helves, but they can sell them. Our library has a running book sale which raises funds for them; paperbacks are a 25 cents, hardbacks $1.00 (What a deal!!) Also, depending on the type of book, they can be donated to local schools or shelters. Worse comes to worst, you can always leave three or four at a time at a bus stop or outside the grocery store, with a sign that says "free, take one!" (Hint: if you want them all to disappear at once, ask people to leave a quarter in a nearby bucket... those books will disappear in a flash. With no money.  )


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Kat M said:


> Me three. My small apartment can't hold any more books. For every one I buy I have to recycle one. Mostly (unless I love a book so much I need my own copy) what I do now is take out physical books from my local library, with the odd ebook borrowed from them too.
> 
> An ebook never feels permanent to me. In time the formats will change the way they did with music and movies, devices malfunction and vendors go out of business etc. My husband has an old ereader that won't load epub4 which is a pain in the butt since there are quite alot of books he can't buy now. As a big film buff, eons ago, I used to have an enormous VHS collection of movies that became useless when players disappeared. If you really want to keep a book forever there's nothing to beat the timeless simplicity of paper. No changing technology to worry about. Even with the power out all you need is matches and a candle to read by. Tres important come the zombie apocalypse


I agree in general--though paper doesn't last forever, either. (I knew someone who had termites eat up through the floor, into a bookcase, and, keeping in mind that paper is a wood-derivative, the books ended up being dessert. By the time the termite feasting was visible, it was already too late. )

I also can't bear to let go of a book unless I really didn't like it, so for me ebooks are a good workaround.


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## Error404 (Sep 6, 2012)

Get moving on this post, mods.

Is everyone choking on the ISBN cost when going through Ingram, or am I missing something?


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## Lefevre (Feb 1, 2014)

When you buy a new book, donate an old one...


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Error404 said:


> Get moving on this post, mods.
> 
> Is everyone choking on the ISBN cost when going through Ingram, or am I missing something?


I haven't started the process with Ingram yet, but does Ingram allow you to bring in an ISBN you've already purchased. If so, buy in bulk from Bowker and save money. Assuming you have a long publishing career ahead of you, that's an outlay initially, but much more economical in the long run.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

Error404 said:


> Get moving on this post, mods.
> 
> Is everyone choking on the ISBN cost when going through Ingram, or am I missing something?


I bought a lot of 10. It works out to under $30 an ISBN. That will get me through the stuff I have scheduled through the end of the year and getting some of the most recent releases transitioned. If you plan on buying one at a time, that will be silly. Buy in lots and it isn't all that much per ISBN.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

Bill Hiatt said:


> I haven't started the process with Ingram yet, but does Ingram allow you to bring in an ISBN you've already purchased. If so, buy in bulk from Bowker and save money. Assuming you have a long publishing career ahead of you, that's an outlay initially, but much more economical in the long run.


INGRAM doesn't sell ISBNs. They redirect you to the Bowker/Myidentifiers site. If you already have ISBNs in your name, you are all good.


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

First off, I don't use the estore option in Create Space.  I forget why I didn't want to set it up (haven't looked at it in a while), but there was some downside that offset the potential benefits that I didn't.  That being said, I do worry about the future. It is RUDE and UNUSUAL for a partner in the publishing business to only give two weeks notice.  Considering that most publishing plans happen a year or more in advance, this is demonstrating how little they care about us.  Which is odd considering they have been demonstrating customer first.  Or rather I should say END customer.  Partners or suppliers I guess is another story.

I like create space for their setup and ease of use.  Their digital proofing system is hands down the best around.  Ingramspark is way way way behind in that regard.  Not to mention no up front set up costs.  While I do use Create Space, I only distribute to Amazon and Ingramspark for everything else.  The benefits of this type of setup is those that order a book from Amazon will get it much faster if it is though CS vs Ingramspark.  It also shows differently on the title page at Amazon, showing it is not in stock but will be ordered and may take 7 days or more.  A CS book shows as in stock.

I always start setting up a title at CS.  While I know what I am doing and it doesn't take long at all, there is a downside.  CS tends to 'fiddle' or 'adjust' every single cover I send to them.  AND never tell me they did it!  When I first started with CS I ordered a TON of proofs and every single one of them was different.  And more than I thought.  For example I would darken it, yet it would print lighter?  I finally started comparing the digital proof to my file and found 99% of the time they didn't exactly match.  At first I thought it was their system.  Then I sent the exact same cover in again, and it was still a little off.  A third or forth time was required and it finally looked my file.  Ordered a printed a proof and what do you know, it was fine!

But I have to go through this EVERY TIME I send in a cover.  Either with a tweak or a new title.  Once I found out what was going on, it helped a lot.  Before that I was going positively batty!  However, this adds a week to the process (or more) as I have to keep resubmitting the cover until I get a member of staff that doesn't mess with it.

On the flip side, Ingramspark NEVER alters anything.  They will either approve it or not.  But the files I use on CS work fine for Ingramspark.  Well the cover templates are different, but you can copy/move the cover from your CS template to theirs without any trouble.  So again, I start with CS to get everything is set up properly (their print proofs are cheaper too), then move on to Ingramspark.  I usually end up with two or three proofs from CS and one from Ingramspark (just to make sure everything is fine).  Oh Ingramspark is also much slower approving files.

I don't know if anyone else has run into this, but print needs a lighter cover than e-books.  I generally add 15% brightness and sometimes the same in contrast to my covers to get them to print properly.  Sometimes I have to bump it up a bit more, but 15% is more often right than not.

I should mention one big downside with Ingramspark: Control.  We do not have as much control on the website as we do with CS.  For example, we can unpublish or even delete a title at the touch of a button at CS, but no such option exists for Ingramspark.  You have to call them to have a title removed.  Which may not be easy.  I have been on hold for over 30 minutes at times.  And of course their site is geared more towards people that know what they are doing.  One can get confused.  CS is very straight forward.  Of course, if you have done print before, it is fine.

Still what bothers me the most is Amazon pushing us towards KDP print when it is not even close to what CS is now.  Which I don't understand since it is the same company.  They should have all the technology.  Granted it won't be plug an play, but they have all the pieces already.  It is not like they have to start from scratch.  At cost print proofs is a prime example, what is so difficult with that?  If they have difficulty with such a simple option, I can only imagine what will happen to the great digital proof system we know and love.

Oh one final tip!  If you have used expanded distribution at CS, moving to Ingramspark is going to be DIFFICULT.  The reason is CS uses Ingramspark for expanded distribution and you have to get CS to tell Ingramspark to remove it from their systems.  Sure you can turn it off at CS, but Ingramspark will say that ISBN is in use and won't let you set up a title with that ISBN.  It took me weeks to get that mess straightened out for one of my titles I had accidentally turned on expanded distribution for about 2 minutes.  But it was enough to give me one major headache and require several phone calls between CS and Ingramspark.


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Jena H said:


> Not sure where you live, but many local libraries take donations of books. Obviously they don't put them into circulation on their shelves, but they can sell them. Our library has a running book sale which raises funds for them; paperbacks are a 25 cents, hardbacks $1.00 (What a deal!!) Also, depending on the type of book, they can be donated to local schools or shelters. Worse comes to worst, you can always leave three or four at a time at a bus stop or outside the grocery store, with a sign that says "free, take one!" (Hint: if you want them all to disappear at once, ask people to leave a quarter in a nearby bucket... those books will disappear in a flash. With no money.  )


The *Tompkins County Public Library* in Ithaca, New York, has a maniacally active *"Friends of the Library"* group. They rent and manage an entire warehouse where they take in, sort, and store literally thousands of book donations. They accept them every day, all year long, and are so busy that they don't sell books just any old day like a store. They have 2 huge multi-week book sales each year, in May and October and they sell off almost everything every time. The money goes back into the Library system and to support local literacy organizations. Obviously, all this would not happen without the support of the local citizenry, and, sadly, that is not as available in every community.

http://www.friendsoftcpl.org

Also, don't forget those free-standing *"Little Free Library"* cabinets that are popping up all over the U.S. and the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Free_Library


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> INGRAM doesn't sell ISBNs. They redirect you to the Bowker/Myidentifiers site. If you already have ISBNs in your name, you are all good.


Thanks!


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

Don DeBon said:


> I like create space for their setup and ease of use. Their digital proofing system is hands down the best around. Ingramspark is way way way behind in that regard. Not to mention no up front set up costs. While I do use Create Space, I only distribute to Amazon and Ingramspark for everything else. The benefits of this type of setup is those that order a book from Amazon will get it much faster if it is though CS vs Ingramspark. It also shows differently on the title page at Amazon, showing it is not in stock but will be ordered and may take 7 days or more. A CS book shows as in stock.
> 
> I should mention one big downside with Ingramspark: Control. We do not have as much control on the website as we do with CS. For example, we can unpublish or even delete a title at the touch of a button at CS, but no such option exists for Ingramspark. You have to call them to have a title removed. Which may not be easy. I have been on hold for over 30 minutes at times. And of course their site is geared more towards people that know what they are doing. One can get confused. CS is very straight forward. Of course, if you have done print before, it is fine.
> 
> Still what bothers me the most is Amazon pushing us towards KDP print when it is not even close to what CS is now. Which I don't understand since it is the same company. They should have all the technology. Granted it won't be plug an play, but they have all the pieces already. It is not like they have to start from scratch. At cost print proofs is a prime example, what is so difficult with that? If they have difficulty with such a simple option, I can only imagine what will happen to the great digital proof system we know and love.


It's always bothered me also that Amazon pushed KDP Print out the door without all the features that even Amazon said were coming. I know it's a beta, but why wait on things you already have a system for? It appears that proof copies and author copies are gradually rolling out now, so that's something, but the process still seems backwards to me.

I have thought about the issue that titles printed by CS or KDP Print Beta always show up as in stock, while those from other PODs do not. Since the vast majority of my paperback sales have always been on Amazon, I'll probably hang on to CS as long as I can. When CS is finally phased out (probably with two weeks' notice ), I'll see what KDP Print looks like at the time. If it has what I need, I may try it. (I don't publish the work of others, so I've never needed the estore features.) It already offers an easy unpublish routine that, from what you say, Ingram Spark doesn't.

That said, I still wish KDP Print or some POD would offer to publishers the ease of ordering author copies that the estore had. It sounds as if the estore closure has created a hole in the industry that someone could pick up business by filling. I'd be tempted to give my paperback business to whoever fills that hole just to support those people who really need the functionality.


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## Sam B (Mar 28, 2017)

So has anyone switched to KDP print? Romance writers especially?

They've got an adult content question that's not like createspace's, and gives you a flat 'does this contain materials not appropriate for people under 18?' I'm not willing to say a sex scene is appropriate for people under 18 for various reasons, but this is a problem for me.

Does it mean that publishing a paperback through KDP is going to get my romance ebook stuck in the erotica dungeon? If so, I guess it's about time for me to look at buying ISBNs.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2017)

For those in my boat where you need an option to sell directly to readers or provide discount copies to contributors, I had forgotten that Drivethrufiction.com offers POD services, which includes the ability to provide discount codes even for print. I've always used CS as a matter of convenience but with the closure of the estore this could be an immediate alternative for some people.


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Does this mean after October 31 that I can no longer order paperback copies of my CS print books at the author discount? I always order a lot of them around Christmas for gifts and stuff...should I order them now BEFORE they close the CS store?


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2017)

Kathryn Meyer Griffith said:


> Does this mean after October 31 that I can no longer order paperback copies of my CS print books at the author discount? I always order a lot of them around Christmas for gifts and stuff...should I order them now BEFORE they close the CS store?


No, it only affects the eStore, which was the public facing store front. You can still buy author copies through CreateSpace - it isn't closing itself.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2017)

> Does this mean after October 31 that I can no longer order paperback copies of my CS print books at the author discount?


They haven't been terribly clear on this point. Much earlier in this thread someone said they were told author proofs would still be available but they wanted to bulk order non-proof copies of their books and CS's response was something like, "We'll get back to you." That doesn't sound entirely convincing


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## MClayton (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm late to the party, but FWIW, if you own your own ISBNs and have books in C/S Expanded Distribution, you can remove your books from C/S Expanded Distribution (leave them on C/S if you want C/S to distribute to Amazon, but remove them from Expanded Distribution), then send a Title Transfer Request to IngramSpark. The books will be transferred by I/S _from_ the I/S CreateSpace account _to_ your personal I/S account. This page tells how to do it. At the bottom is a link to download the Title Transfer Request. Fill it out, and email it to I/S along with a letter listing the titles (with ISBNs) you want transferred. There's no charge when you transfer titles. https://help.ingramspark.com/hc/en-us/articles/211155403-Title-Transfers


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

MClayton said:


> I'm late to the party, but FWIW, if you own your own ISBNs and have books in C/S Expanded Distribution, you can remove your books from C/S Expanded Distribution (leave them on C/S if you want C/S to distribute to Amazon, but remove them from Expanded Distribution), then send a Title Transfer Request to IngramSpark. The books will be transferred by I/S _from_ the I/S CreateSpace account _to_ your personal I/S account. This page tells how to do it. At the bottom is a link to download the Title Transfer Request. Fill it out, and email it to I/S along with a letter listing the titles (with ISBNs) you want transferred. There's no charge when you transfer titles. https://help.ingramspark.com/hc/en-us/articles/211155403-Title-Transfers


I mentioned this in my post. Now while they didn't have that page on Ingram Spark when I did it, you still need to contact Create Space and have them contact Ingram Spark (as per the site "If the publisher owns the ISBN, it can be transferred once Expanded Distribution is removed and Create Space confirms the transfer with Ingram." which means they need confirmation. Sure you can email Ingram Spark, but they still need you to contact Create Space. Or at least I had to. It took about 3 weeks of e-mails and phone calls to get it done. Perhaps the process is easier now, but I doubt it.


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the answers.


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## BG (Mar 19, 2014)

Tilly said:


> Paperbacks are lovely, but when there are no second hand bookstores what on earth do you do with several thousand paperbacks you have collected over 30 years? We have a library with floor to ceiling bookshelves that are double stacked. Overflow is stored in the top of wardrobes and bookshelves in every other room and paperbacks keep coming into the house. It's becoming a big issue here because they only option is to throw read books in the recycling bin and that feels so wrong...


What could you do with paperbacks you no longer want, instead of the recycling bin?

-Put up a "Community Library" box (a little book house, protected from the elements) at the end of your driveway (or common room if in an apartment/condo), where people are free to take a book and/or leave a book
-Sell them on eBay
-Sell them or give them away (under Free listings) on Craigslist 
-Give them away on The Freecycle Network
-Donate to charity stores like The Salvation Army, Goodwill, etc.
-Donate to schools, libraries, shelters, churches

Good luck!


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## MClayton (Nov 10, 2010)

Don DeBon said:


> I mentioned this in my post. Now while they didn't have that page on Ingram Spark when I did it, you still need to contact Create Space and have them contact Ingram Spark (as per the site "If the publisher owns the ISBN, it can be transferred once Expanded Distribution is removed and Create Space confirms the transfer with Ingram." which means they need confirmation. Sure you can email Ingram Spark, but they still need you to contact Create Space. Or at least I had to. It took about 3 weeks of e-mails and phone calls to get it done. Perhaps the process is easier now, but I doubt it.


It's unpredictable, if my experience is anything to go by. With the first batch, I removed them from Expanded Distribution, waited a week, contacted C/S, and then sent the Title Transfer. It took about three hours. With the second batch, the same process took about three weeks. Part of that was my fault because I made a mistake on the form. That took about a week to figure out and straighten out. The other two weeks ... who knows.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2017)

shimmering said:


> I'm wondering how to tell whether a book that is published in paperback through Ingram Spark is "live" (when also published Amazon only through Createspace).
> 
> Is there a bookshop site that you would look at to check? And would you expect the prices on such a bookshop site to match the prices in all four settable currencies set within Ingram Spark?


As a reminder, print pricing is not the same as ebook pricing. Your print price is your "retail price." But retailers can sell your book for whatever price they want. It does NOT impact your royalty. So even if your book retails for $14.99 and the bookstore wants to sell it for $7, you will get the same profit either way. You don't need to "police" the pricing of print, nor should you try.


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

I have one more question...can I (or any author) put their books into print into both Create Space AND Ingram Spark at the same time? The same paperbacks at both places?


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## Chrissy (Mar 31, 2014)

Kathryn Meyer Griffith said:


> I have one more question...can I (or any author) put their books into print into both Create Space AND Ingram Spark at the same time? The same paperbacks at both places?


Yes. 
If *you purchased/own the ISBN* (meaning you are the publisher of record) AND select the same trim size (example: 5x, you can use the same ISBN at both places. Because Createspace and Ingram Spark act solely as printers, creating the identical book for you the publisher.

Example #1:
ISBN 123456789 You=Publisher Trim: 5x8 Printer: Createspace*
ISBN 123456789 You=Publisher Trim: 5x8 Printer: Ingram Spark

*Only publish POD book on Amazon. NO EXTENDED DISTRIBUTION.

However, if you are *using one of Amazon's free ISBN at Createspace*, Amazon is the publisher of note for the free ISBN so you can only print your book using THEIR/AMAZON's ISBN at Createspace. However, you can buy an ISBN and print the SAME book anywhere you want (including Ingram Spark) too! 

Example #2:
ISBN 898989889 Createspace=Publisher Trim: 5x8 Printer: Createspace
ISBN 111111111 You=Publisher Trim: 5x8 Printer: Ingram Spark


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## MClayton (Nov 10, 2010)

Kathryn Meyer Griffith said:


> I have one more question...can I (or any author) put their books into print into both Create Space AND Ingram Spark at the same time? The same paperbacks at both places?


You can have them in both places, but they can't be in CreateSpace _Expanded Distribution_ while they're on IngramSpark. In other words, if you pull them out of Expanded Distribution but leave them on CreateSpace, you can also put them on IngramSpark. At that point, Amazon orders will be filled by CreateSpace, and all other orders will be filled by IngramSpark. This is what I do with my books.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2017)

shimmering said:


> I'm wondering how to tell whether a book that is published in paperback through Ingram Spark is "live" (when also published Amazon only through Createspace).
> 
> Is there a bookshop site that you would look at to check? And would you expect the prices on such a bookshop site to match the prices in all four settable currencies set within Ingram Spark?


I usually check B&N as it is typically one of the first to go live. As Julie noted, they can price it how they want, but so far, I've yet to have any bookstore price it at anything other than the list price unless they are doing sales across a genre or the like.


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

shimmering said:


> I'm wondering how to tell whether a book that is published in paperback through Ingram Spark is "live" (when also published Amazon only through Createspace).
> 
> Is there a bookshop site that you would look at to check? And would you expect the prices on such a bookshop site to match the prices in all four settable currencies set within Ingram Spark?


In short, if you have them published in both locations (Ingram Spark and Create Space), Amazon will show the Create Space version. If you unpublish on Create Space then it will show Ingram Spark. It is fairly easy to tell if it is Ingram Spark or not. Create Space book listings will show immediate delivery, while books printed by Ingram Spark will have a delay listed (may take an extra 1-2 days to ship) next to the BUY button.

Another difference is Create Space print books will be displayed "next to" the kindle version. A search will only show one link/page for both editions. You can click a button on the page to switch between the ebook and print editions. With a Ingram Spark printed editions will have a separate page/listing. Hence showing your ebook and print editions separately in a search. Since people may be accustomed to seeing the ebook and print editions together in the same listing, they may assume there isn't a print edition or vice versa if they don't happen to see both at that moment.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2017)

Don DeBon said:


> Another difference is Create Space print books will be displayed "next to" the kindle version. A search will only show one link/page for both editions. You can click a button on the page to switch between the ebook and print editions. With a Ingram Spark printed editions will have a separate page/listing. Hence showing your ebook and print editions separately in a search. Since people may be accustomed to seeing the ebook and print editions together in the same listing, they may assume there isn't a print edition or vice versa if they don't happen to see both at that moment.


Just as with a CS edition, the author can email to have them linked if it doesn't happen automatically. Amazon won't refuse to link them just because its IS over CS.


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

Anma Natsu said:


> Just as with a CS edition, the author can email to have them linked if it doesn't happen automatically. Amazon won't refuse to link them just because its IS over CS.


Ah I didn't think they would being CS is their company etc. I never tried to have them manually linked. I can tell you it doesn't happen automatically. At least it didn't for me.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2017)

Don DeBon said:


> Ah I didn't think they would being CS is their company etc. I never tried to have them manually linked. I can tell you it doesn't happen automatically. At least it didn't for me.


If I remember correctly, it did for me on my hardback edition, but its been awhile


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## notjohn (Sep 9, 2016)

shimmering said:


> I'm wondering how to tell whether a book that is published in paperback through Ingram Spark is "live" (when also published Amazon only through Createspace).
> 
> Is there a bookshop site that you would look at to check? And would you expect the prices on such a bookshop site to match the prices in all four settable currencies set within Ingram Spark?


I would go to Barnes & Noble. (The other place I like to see my books is the Book Depository, but they're very slow.) However, B&N now sells only in the US, so the USD price is the only one that matters. Presumably because the discount is less than the 55 percent they can get from Big Five publishers, B&N doesn't seem to do as much discounting of paperbacks as Amazon does.


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