# all additional releases have been temporarily suspended



## mike h (Dec 6, 2017)

As i was cruising various author sites to see what they've been up to, i noticed Bella Forrest has a disclaimer on her latest releases that says that due to publishing issues, all additional releases have been suspended. Unusual.


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## jb1111 (Apr 6, 2018)

Looks like it's been that way for a few months, from a different site I found after doing a search (I hadn't heard of Bella Forrest before).


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## NikOK (Jun 27, 2020)

I vaguely remember a thread about this exact topic a while back. Sorry, I can't think of the details, but you might be able to search older threads and find something.


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## ImaWriter (Aug 12, 2015)

Bella Forrest is the name behind a stable of ghostwriters. 

From what I understand, there was/is some sort of issue with a ghostwriter and there's ongoing litigation that can't be made public. So no one really knows what's happened, and it's all just conjecture at this point.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

There was a big thread on this when it happened at one of the other author forums that included a link to one of the lawsuits around the whole thing. Basic idea is that there's some dispute around who owns the rights to the stories published under this name. Is it the young woman who supposedly started this whole thing up and managed a stable of ghost writers and brought in a money manager who she gave full control of her funds so he could hide them in offshore jurisdictions? Or is it the shadowy money manager who claims she's no more than just an employee and he's the one who directed it all?


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## ImaWriter (Aug 12, 2015)

CassieL said:


> There was a big thread on this when it happened at one of the other author forums that included a link to one of the lawsuits around the whole thing. Basic idea is that there's some dispute around who owns the rights to the stories published under this name. Is it the young woman who supposedly started this whole thing up and managed a stable of ghost writers and brought in a money manager who she gave full control of her funds so he could hide them in offshore jurisdictions? Or is it the shadowy money manager who claims she's no more than just an employee and he's the one who directed it all?


Holy moly. That's a little mind bending.


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## cest la vie (Feb 4, 2021)

Juicy. I look forward to the inevitable Youtube video essays.


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## mike h (Dec 6, 2017)

I guess the days are gone when kboards people rally to Bella Forrest's defense to claim that she does not use ghost writers... that she is just one talented person who writes prolifically. LOL.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

mike h said:


> I guess the days are gone when kboards people rally to Bella Forrest's defense to claim that she does not use ghost writers... that she is just one talented person who writes prolifically. LOL.



Kboarders (and people on other forums) have oft defended Bella Forrest from claims of using ghost writers. I've seen some interesting logic contortions there.

There's no shame in using ghostwriters or running a ghostwritten pen name. I think many of us old hats have considered it. I know many of my friends and I have had the conversation "Yeah, I would run a ghostwritten pen name if it was just about the money," and kinda wished we did only care about the money. Because the other things we care about don't care back.

Money doesn't care either, but at least it's money.


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## cest la vie (Feb 4, 2021)

mike h said:


> I guess the days are gone when kboards people rally to Bella Forrest's defense to claim that she does not use ghost writers... that she is just one talented person who writes prolifically. LOL.


There's nothing to defend. Readers don't care if she's six toddlers stacked on top of each other under a trench coat. The only thing that'll hurt "Bella Forrest" is not releasing for however long this takes.


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## Paranormal Kitty (Jun 13, 2017)

mike h said:


> I guess the days are gone when kboards people rally to Bella Forrest's defense to claim that she does not use ghost writers... that she is just one talented person who writes prolifically. LOL.


I still remember when I found out that Ann M. Martin didn't personally write all the five bazillion Babysitter's Club books. The never-ending MG/YA series with a team of ghostwriters has been a thing since Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys.


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## nightwork (Aug 11, 2020)

mike h said:


> I guess the days are gone when kboards people rally to Bella Forrest's defense to claim that she does not use ghost writers... that she is just one talented person who writes prolifically. LOL.


that was always so dishonest and insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows how long it takes to get things done

as well as an insult to everyone who has ever worked as a ghostwriter & was supposed to sit by silently while their profession was trashed as somehow dishonorable


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

nightwork said:


> that was always so dishonest and insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows how long it takes to get things done


To be fair, Amanda M. Lee was active here for many years and everyone knows her output is beyond prolific, so it's possible.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

nightwork said:


> that was always so dishonest and insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows how long it takes to get things done
> 
> as well as an insult to everyone who has ever worked as a ghostwriter & was supposed to sit by silently while their profession was trashed as somehow dishonorable


Yes, it lead to a lot of my least favorite indie author tendency: the erasing of all publishing work besides writing. Even if an individual writer could write as fast as Bella Forrest publishes (and I think that's highly doubtful), they'd also have to do all the packaging and marketing and admin Bella Forrest does. And she does (did) a lot of marketing. That is a task that takes both time and energy. Time and energy that can no longer be spent on writing.


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## nightwork (Aug 11, 2020)

Bite the Dusty said:


> To be fair, Amanda M. Lee was active here for many years and everyone knows her output is beyond prolific, so it's possible.


"everyone" knows?


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

Everyone who's been paying attention over the years noticed there's a member of our community that releases 2+ books a month. Productivity debates aren't new. But go on, split hairs and ignore my point.


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## EmberKent (Nov 24, 2018)

The author being referred to in the OP aside, I've seen a couple authors with delayed releases because of how heavily they rely on the book release tour. Without being able to hold events, they decide that it's best to just wait until the pandemic's mostly through. With others I've seen them continue to release secondary series but hold off on their primaries.

It must be a tough situation for those who really need the live interactions with their readers to sell as well as they do.


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## nightwork (Aug 11, 2020)

Bite the Dusty said:


> Everyone who's been paying attention over the years noticed there's a member of our community that releases 2+ books a month. Productivity debates aren't new. But go on, split hairs and ignore my point.


i'm literally *not* ignoring your point, i'm engaging with it because i do not understand your point

extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence

claiming "everybody" knows something that almost no one would be in a position to verify for themselves... is the opposite of evidence


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## cest la vie (Feb 4, 2021)

nightwork said:


> i'm literally *not* ignoring your point, i'm engaging with it because i do not understand your point
> 
> extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence
> 
> claiming "everybody" knows something that almost no one would be in a position to verify for themselves... is the opposite of evidence


You kicked things off by saying those defending Bella Forrest before were dishonest and insulting the intelligence of anyone who knows how long it takes to get things done. Where's your extraordinary evidence for that claim?

Bite was just trying to point out there's a well known indie author and member here who's also that prolific. So some people might have defended Bella Forrest because until you know the facts, you can't know someone else's capacity, not because using ghostwriters is bad.

I write a book a month on average, but I write for myself in a genre that doesn't sell, so I don't publish, package, advertise, or any of the 10 extra jobs self publishers do. It seems impossible to me, but that doesn't mean it is.


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## ImaWriter (Aug 12, 2015)

Is there some assumption here that all indies do everything ourselves? As in we write, edit, proof, design our covers, format our books, do all our marketing, and any other jobs I'm forgetting, ourselves? Because AFAIK there is no indie creed that says we must. If so, my very bad. 

I recently started binge reading an indie who is very prolific. In just in the last few weeks I went to Fantastic Fiction and pulled up all of her books. She published 12 last year. And she has pre-orders booked through to Feb '22. Since I use Calibre, I reformatted several of her books to .docx to check word count. They are all over 100K. And I know enough about craft, language, and voice to know she wrote each of them herself. And guess what? Each of them is edited and proofed. Each has cover art done. 

And for the naysayers who just have to come back with the "it's impossible to write that much and it not be crap" because it's impossible for their little selves, Montlake has picked her up. It looks like her last 2 series are published by them. 

As for Amanda, many of us here know she writes 8 or 9K every damn day. If, as BtD said, we were paying attention. 

It is possible to churn out quality. On the flip side, we also have the Bella Forests. Who hire a stable of ghostwriters. Nothing wrong with that. And if you read through her reviews, even her more discerning readers know that's what's going on. Because they can detect the variation in quality and voice throughout the series. But they don't care, because they are too addicted to the stories to stop. And right now, many of them are pissed because they've been forced to stop.


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

nightwork said:


> claiming "everybody" knows something that almost no one would be in a position to verify for themselves... is the opposite of evidence


Kboards isn't filled with verified evidence last I checked. Just authors sharing their experiences and opinions, take it or leave it. I guess I just prefer giving them the benefit of the doubt over assuming deceit, especially deceit by association.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I don't think the can people write quality fast conversation is very useful. We all have different ideas of quality.

IMO many indie authors, the prolific and the slow, would really benefit from a thorough developmental edit and revision. I read so many books that are great starts but just not there. No one will convince me these books are great and my opinion on them being great is pretty irrelevant.

People speak a lot about how some authors are really prolific, but IME, in this world for seven years now, it's mostly talk. It's extremely rare to see any indies writing faster than a book a month. And even that is pretty rare.

Is it possible for someone to write and publish two books a month? Yes.

Is it more likely the pen name is using ghost writers? Also yes.

Ghostwritten pen names are much more common than most people want to believe. I have many friends who work as ghostwriters. They are always busy. They do not lack for clients.


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

It's true, I wouldn't guess ghost-pens straight away.

I'm fuzzy on the details but I was surprised when Chance whatever-his-name-is and all those people turned out to be ghostwritten names/personas a few years back. But then again, they were not what I was into, so I wasn't really paying attention.

It's also probably because those of us who love writing, who are disinterested in the other aspects of publishing wouldn't think of that as an appealing gig, doing just the not fun stuff. But money is money, and not everyone has the same reasons and mindset in this business. 

Personally, I consider even 4 books a year prolific. If you're keeping up with Stephen King and readers are eating it up, I think those writers deserve credit, whether they're the authors or the ghosts behind the names. I can get a draft done in a month, but it's a mess.


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## Clay (Apr 17, 2020)

mike h said:


> I guess the days are gone when kboards people rally to Bella Forrest's defense to claim that she does not use ghost writers... that she is just one talented person who writes prolifically. LOL.


Bella Forrest is not the only one doing it. There are other notable names doing it too including people who everyone thinks "just writes really fast!" It's not a big deal really, ghost writing is a legitimate profession and using ghost writers can be a smart business decision.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Crystal_ said:


> Ghostwritten pen names are much more common than most people want to believe.


The thing I always wonder is, why do people get so bent out of shape if someone is using a ghostwriter? I mean really, as long as the story is of the same quality as usual, who cares?


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## ImaWriter (Aug 12, 2015)

Crystal_ said:


> I don't think the can people write quality fast conversation is very useful. We all have different ideas of quality.
> 
> IMO many indie authors, the prolific and the slow, would really benefit from a thorough developmental edit and revision. I read so many books that are great starts but just not there. No one will convince me these books are great and my opinion on them being great is pretty irrelevant.
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%, And I appreciate the use of the word "rare."

My biggest issue with these conversations is the extremely dogmatic statement people love to throw out. That it's impossible to write fast and well. Because there are always anomalies and outliers. And if someone is *genuinely *one of those writers, I would imagine it's extremely insulting to hear. But I can only imagine, because I freely admit to not being a rarity.


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## mike h (Dec 6, 2017)

Some one person is as prolific as the entity known as Bella Forrest? LOL. And the myth continues that keeps on giving.


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## Corvid (May 15, 2014)

.................


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

I'm sure it's rare, but I wouldn't want to alienate a fellow indie just because they're getting more done.

Most of my writing group friends are going for trad, and I guarantee if I disclosed I finished even a single book in a single year and thought it was publishable, they'd laugh and mock me similarly to some of what's in this thread. They'd assume it was garbage, because a book written in a year can't possibility be good enough for publication. In the end, I think these kinds of beliefs are limiting and unhelpful to all involved.

There's all sorts of people out there doing things I can't fathom doing myself. Doctors, engineers, physicists... Tyler Perry. Just because I couldn't do it, doesn't mean they can't. And just because it appears Bella Forrest has a writer's room, doesn't mean prolific authors who write their own books don't exist.


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## Corvid (May 15, 2014)

...............


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

Pretty much.

Are content mills or ghost pens doing something ethically wrong? I don't think so. To me it just looks like the dynamic of show runner and writer's room, but in publishing. Are they making it harder on those of us that write our own books? I'm sure. Can we do anything productive about it? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in defending content mills, including Bella Forrest. I'd assume they don't care what we think anyway. It's when the conversation turns to defining what's possible that my antenna goes up.

In the end readers decide. Do I personally get James Patterson? Nope, he's my trad punching bag for that reason. But in no way does that negate what he's achieved, the fact that readers keep on buying, and in the end only the individuals themselves know the work they put in.


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## cest la vie (Feb 4, 2021)

ImaWriter said:


> Is there some assumption here that all indies do everything ourselves? As in we write, edit, proof, design our covers, format our books, do all our marketing, and any other jobs I'm forgetting, ourselves? Because AFAIK there is no indie creed that says we must. If so, my very bad.


Not at all, but if they can swing it, more power to them. I'm always impressed how many hats some people can wear.


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## Clay (Apr 17, 2020)

Corvid said:


> It's definitely possible to put books out quickly if you put in the effort. It's hard work though, and that's why I admire Amanda Lee. She's an inspiration, honestly.


Amande Lee has explained that she has four writers on her staff. She writes the first draft, gives it a quick edit, then sends it off to her in-house staff to clean it up and make it suitable for publication. That's a great publishing strategy.

HOWEVER, if you're inspired by Amanda and want to write 3-4 books a month like she does then you need to not only be able to write really fast but you also need to invest a lot of money in a staff to help you.


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## Bite the Dusty (Aug 9, 2020)

Clay said:


> Amande Lee has explained that she has four writers on her staff. She writes the first draft, gives it a quick edit, then sends it off to her in-house staff to clean it up and make it suitable for publication. That's a great publishing strategy.
> 
> HOWEVER, if you're inspired by Amanda and want to write 3-4 books a month like she does then you need to not only be able to write really fast but you also need to invest a lot of money in a staff to help you.


Did she say that here? I've only ever seen her talk about sending her drafts to editors and proofreaders.


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## Whiteknight (12 mo ago)

Clay said:


> if you're inspired by Amanda and want to write 3-4 books a month


Wow, that's a lot of books to write in a month.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I've never heard or seen Amanda Lee claim to have other writers. She writes the books, and has and editor check it out, then it gets published.

Is this true? I don't know. All I know is how she's described her work flow, over the more than ten years that I've been around.

Of course, Bella Forrest used to claim she wrote all her books, with no help. So, whatever.

I have no problem with ghostwriters, but I do get a bit testy when people who use ghostwriters claim they don't, and lecture others on how to be great self publishers.


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## Bella Forrest Author (10 mo ago)

Bella Forrest will resume publications in April


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## Adomwrites (Nov 2, 2015)

Bella Forrest Author said:


> Bella Forrest will resume publications in April


What happened to Bella Forrest website?


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## Bella Forrest Author (10 mo ago)

Adomwrites said:


> What happened to Bella Forrest website?


The only official Bella Forrest website is www.hotpcakes.com


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## Amber Thomas (6 mo ago)

I started the Shadowspell Manor series on Kindle, but it appears to be only available in paperback now. I was on my desktop, not Google Play. Is it just me, or if not does anyone know why? I don't want to buy the physical books if I can help it.


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## Midnight Rain (Oct 8, 2020)

Amber Thomas said:


> I started the Shadowspell Manor series on Kindle, but it appears to be only available in paperback now. I was on my desktop, not Google Play. Is it just me, or if not does anyone know why? I don't want to buy the physical books if I can help it.


It seems ALL of her kindle books were removed from Amazon.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Bite the Dusty said:


> To be fair, Amanda M. Lee was active here for many years and everyone knows her output is beyond prolific, so it's possible.


Amanda writes 9000 words a day. I fall asleep after 2000.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

This thread is old and contains a lot of material about sockpuppet accounts that have since been banned. With all the deletions, it doesn't read very clearly. I'm going to go ahead and lock it.


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