# Kindle Porn?



## Andrew Kaufman (Jun 16, 2010)

An interesting article; in it, they're accusing Amazon--in a sort of roundabout way-- of being in the porn business simply because they sell erotic fiction on Kindle. In my opinion, there's nothing to substantiate the claim. This form of literature is nothing new; it's been printed on paper for years. So why, suddenly, should Amazon be coming under fire just because they're doing what publishers have been printing for years in paper books? For me, it's much ado about nothing. Here's the article. See what you think:

http://www.slate.com/id/2269132/?wpisrc=eDialog

Drew


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## Emily King (Jun 9, 2009)

There are plenty of these kinds of books over at B&N, including the Compromising Positions book they mention in the article, so it isn't strictly Amazon. If people don't like erotica (or the like), they should just not buy those books. Apple is a whole other animal all together. I would rather have the choice to buy something than to have the company censor what is available for me to buy in the first place.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

That's crazy! Barnes and Noble and Borders both have erotica sections -- hell, my public library has Anais Nin's erotica. So what? It almost sounds like the reviewer is mad that the Kindle porn isn't more expensive, which seems like a bizarre concern.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

I also think it's weird that he's so fixated on the porn being for men. First of all, so what? Is that a problem? There are lots of genres that appeal more to one gender than the other -- is he offended by chick lit, or woodworking manuals, or books of makeup tips? I don't understand what issue he's trying to raise there.

And secondly, I'm not at all sure he's correct -- I think the female "dirty book" market is a lot bigger than he imagines. 

The only thing in the article that seemed valid to me is that yeah, porn should be clearly labelled so that people don't stumble on it by mistake -- although in his examples, surely no one who read the description of Compromising Positions or the mere title of Office Slave is likely to be too confused about what they contain.


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## Emily King (Jun 9, 2009)

I think this is definitely one case where you _can_ judge a book by its cover!


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

If he's going to be uptight about it, he'd best not go into the Health & Personal Care department.  There is an entire sub-department for 'sexual wellness' that has some pretty fun items in it (... or so I've been told).

As for the bulk of his article, he really needs to look at what's in pbooks and available in stores like Borders or BN ... it's much ado about nothing.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Wow, completely clueless. These books are mostly marketed for women. Seriously. Erotic Romance. Heroines get to have all kinds of naughty, kinky fun -- and then they hook up with the guy in a committed relationship. How many adult films does that happen in? Every time he writes something like verbal vs visual porn for men is a niche market, it's like he almost ... almost ... figures it out. Yes, there are stories there that are written for men, but the majority ... for women. He even mentions Samhain Publishing -- spend 5 minutes at their website and tell me that their stuff is for men. 

Erotic romance is too steamy for some, but it's closely related to the books you see at the grocery store. As is mentioned in comments, if men go to Samhain (or Ellora's Cave) for "inspiration," they're going to be disappointed as they read a book from a female POV for women to read, characterization, plot and ending with some version of a white picket fence, at least some lovey-dovey stuff. It might be steamy stuff, but it's the equivalent of how I used to tell my then future husband we could watch one of "those" movies, but it had to be more than Ding-Dong, Pizza Man and at least have a little plot. To a lot of men, that defeats the purpose. 

Beyond that, a writer should get that he's going down a slippery slope -- which sounds obscene right now. A lot of women who read books that are decidedly in the romance camp, and not the more erotic examples, were always embarrassed by the covers. So, if a Kindle frees some folks to read what they really want to read -- men or women -- they're adults. The line about would you tell your mother -- yeah. Did that. Grandmother also knows. Coworkers...


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## Andrew Kaufman (Jun 16, 2010)

Exactly what I'm thinking. Since when has erotic fiction been geared toward men? For as long as I've known, it's been exclusively a female market. I could be living a sheltered life, but I don't think I've ever seen a man reading one. Unless they're specifically trying to widen the market by appealing to men, I just don't see that as being very successful. Are they in on some big secret, of which I'm unaware?


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

The article is confusing because he's conflating "erotic romance" like Compromising Positions with stuff Office Slave, which I'm sure is good old-fashioned porn, what they used to call "spank books." The first category is aimed at women -- the second probably does have more male readership.

I'm not sure the author himself totally understands the difference, especially since he muddies the water even further by pulling the Marquis de Sade, who wrote actual porn but now his books are included in World Classics lines by legitimate publishers.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Yes, in comments he seems to be saying he never said all these books are porn and that he doesn't think their presence in his article should make people think that.    I asked my husband just now if he wanted to read some of my erotic romances and he said "only the ones that are mostly pictures with a few words." Then we laughed. It's funny because it's true.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

You still have to be careful when showing off your Kindle, especially pre-collections. I have a co-worker who teases me about the "Bodice Rippers" he saw on mine. Oops  


(But was a really good book, if you like that sort of thing.  )


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

That's why you should always have a copy of Great Expectations ready to queue up for demonstrations.


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## SongbirdVB (Nov 18, 2008)

mom133d said:


> You still have to be careful when showing off your Kindle, especially pre-collections. I have a co-worker who teases me about the "Bodice Rippers" he saw on mine. Oops
> 
> (But was a really good book, if you like that sort of thing. )


I know a couple of people who wouldn't OWN Kindles if they couldn't get their "Bodice Rippers." That is their preferred genre and they are very happy K owners.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Well, doesn't this (poorly researched) article tie in nicely with our whole "banned books week" theme?  Should Amazon or B&N or whoever make judgement calls about what they consider acceptable product?  Short of kiddie porn, where should they draw the line?  Everybody has their opinion on what constitutes fine literature versus utter filth, and attempting to draw that line is the real slippery slope.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

I think we have to move beyond judging people so readily. I was told by someone the other day that they couldn't take me seriously -- because I watch House. O...kay. Some of the books I read are light and frivolous, some are pretty pervy and some are brainy. I assume I'm far from alone in this and anyone who writes off another human being because of their book du jour is sad.


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## CoffeeCat (Sep 13, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> I think we have to move beyond judging people so readily. I was told by someone the other day that they couldn't take me seriously -- because I watch House. O...kay. Some of the books I read are light and frivolous, some are pretty pervy and some are brainy. I assume I'm far from alone in this and anyone who writes off another human being because of their book du jour is sad.


I completely agree. I find people that are quick to judge others (for whatever frivolous reason) are doing it because they're so insecure about themselves. And besides, what's wrong with House? I love that show, and I'm not huge on TV.


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## nicknicknick (Apr 6, 2010)

I once went to a lecture about literature and erotica given by the UK author Colin Wilson. He said that the first novel ever published was Pamela and that it was immediately followed by many pastiches done in a porn manner. Erotica (fairly light stuff by today's standards), he said, drove the publishing and printing industry. 
It's nothing to do with Kindle or Amazon. It's a fact of life.
I also like House. Hugh Laurie is one of the most watchable people on telly.


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## Ron (Feb 12, 2009)

I can't read porn. I don't even on a pornograph.  Guess you will have to be older to get this joke!


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## Evenshade (Aug 12, 2009)

After looking at some of the other links on that web site, it appears there is some sort of "fixation" on his subject of choice....sex.  I don't think I would take him very seriously.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I am taking the 5th, I am taking the 5th..........


*slithers off clutching her kindle .......


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## Emily King (Jun 9, 2009)

DH actually sent me this article when he found it this morning, because he thought he saw some of the books in our Amazon library.... where's the blushing emoticon when I need one?


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

This whole controversy may require additional scrutiny and in-depth evaluation.  Anyone have any specific links they'd like to recommend?

Just kidding.


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## Jon King (Sep 10, 2010)

nicknicknick said:


> I once went to a lecture about literature and erotica given by the UK author Colin Wilson. He said that the first novel ever published was Pamela and that it was immediately followed by many pastiches done in a porn manner. Erotica (fairly light stuff by today's standards), he said, drove the publishing and printing industry.


You've jostled a few memories from my college Brit Lit class, I think. Wasn't Pamela the 1 million word novel? And it was later followed by a parody called Shamela, though I can't remember particulars. Tame by today's standards of course (and probably by ancient standards, come to that), but for the 18th century, whoo-boy.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

What exactly is he objecting to here? Amazon has been selling porn/erotica/erotic romance for _years_ in paper. How is this different?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Probably couldn't find the book he wanted on Kindle....

Betsy

Edit: darn touchpad on the iPad....  Fixed typos..


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

He better not take a peek at my Kindle then...    my "Smut" collection is pretty extensive.  

I do at least make an effort to buy those on a separate account so that the BRATs can't download them to their Kindles.


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## jonconnington (Mar 20, 2010)

Andrew Kaufman said:


> An interesting article; in it, they're accusing Amazon--in a sort of roundabout way-- of being in the porn business simply because they sell erotic fiction on Kindle. In my opinion, there's nothing to substantiate the claim. This form of literature is nothing new; it's been printed on paper for years. So why, suddenly, should Amazon be coming under fire just because they're doing what publishers have been printing for years in paper books? For me, it's much ado about nothing. Here's the article. See what you think:
> 
> http://www.slate.com/id/2269132/?wpisrc=eDialog
> 
> Drew


Read the same article this morning...I think the downside of reading porn on the Kindle is that it's impossible to erase ANYTHING from your Amazon library after you purchased something. Which makes any embarrassing purchase all the more...er, embarrassing.


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## Emily King (Jun 9, 2009)

jonconnington said:


> Read the same article this morning...I think the downside of reading porn on the Kindle is that it's impossible to erase ANYTHING from your Amazon library after you purchased something. Which makes any embarrassing purchase all the more...er, embarrassing.


Oh, no... you can delete things from your library now!! In Manage Your Kindle, go to the bottom for the list of your books. Click the plus next to the title to expand the selection. On the right side, there's a button to Delete the Title.


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## Gerund (Aug 8, 2010)

Oh for...

If you're old enough to purchase books on a Kindle, you're old enough to have a credit card. (If someone else buys books on your behalf, then they're free to censor your purchases as they wish, so they have only themselves to blame if you access materials they disapprove of.)

If you're old enough to have a credit card, you're old enough to:
a) Imagine things far more lurid and titillating than anything put in literature
b) Do all sorts of sexual things to yourself and others with or without the aid of literature
c) Make grown-up decisions along the lines of "Do I really want to read a book entitled Trussed, Stuffed and Spit-Roasted: A Thanksgiving Story?", and realize that choosing to read materials that might offend you may have the effect of offending you.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Emily King said:


> DH actually sent me this article when he found it this morning, because he thought he saw some of the books in our Amazon library.... where's the blushing emoticon when I need one?


Funny--my DH had sent the link to me, as well. What does this say about our spouses?


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## Emily King (Jun 9, 2009)

meromana said:


> Funny--my DH had sent the link to me, as well. What does this say about our spouses?


Well, part of the reason he sent it was that he wanted to know if it was one of the books my _mom_ bought, but I had to tell him that I bought it. He knows what we read (mom, sister, me, and DH are on the same account)...


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## HeidiHall (Sep 5, 2010)

HAHAHAHAHA! Lucky author to stir up so much controversy! I downloaded _Compromising Positions_ and I have to say that it seemed like every other Chick-Lit book in sexual content, just presented in a new way. I adore the genre and would have paid for the download if it hadn't been free.


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## Carolyn A (Jul 25, 2010)

Ya know, they said exactly the same thing about paperback books when those first came out. That they were full of smut and would put all of us directly on the highway to hell. Movies, same thing. Rock'n'roll. Sears catalog underwear section. Basically, we're all doomed.

Carolyn


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## LC Glazebrook (Sep 23, 2010)

What? People getting uptight about other people's jollies? When did humans start doing this?

LC


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## Melonhead (Jan 1, 2010)

Oh good grief, spare us the slow news days.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

LC Glazebrook said:


> What? People getting uptight about other people's jollies? When did humans start doing this?
> 
> LC


It's something new we thought we'd try out. Starting next week we're going to do some field testing on a new idea: 'Talking about other people's fashion choices'. If the tests work out, you can expect to see that rolled out to major markets early second quarter


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Definitely a mountain out of a molehill.  Ah, well... I bet Amazon gets a spike in Kindle sales


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Geoffrey said:


> It's something new we thought we'd try out. Starting next week we're going to do some field testing on a new idea: 'Talking about other people's fashion choices'. If the tests work out, you can expect to see that rolled out to major markets early second quarter


Well, I don't much care for that purple t-shirt you're wearing. . .it's a V-neck!. . .that's so 'old mannish'. . . .


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Well, I don't much care for that purple t-shirt you're wearing. . .it's a V-neck!. . .that's so 'old mannish'. . . .


You are mistaken. Purple sets off the yellows in my skin tone very nicely.


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## toj (Aug 2, 2010)

Emily King said:


> I think this is definitely one case where you _can_ judge a book by its cover!


So very true...


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## Keith Blenman (May 31, 2009)

Oh geez. He found my fiction...


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

From the article:



> There's no point in dancing around it: Amazon is distributing men's erotic fiction,


As a writer of erotic fiction (not romance), with my books on Smashwords, B&N, and others (not Amazon because they're free), I'm reasonably certain that at least half, if not more, of my readers are women, not men. It's evident by the reviews and emails I've received.


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## monkeyluis (Oct 17, 2010)

This is why I have a leather cover. So my kindle isn't naked.


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## Keith Blenman (May 31, 2009)

monkeyluis said:


> This is why I have a leather cover. So my kindle isn't naked.


HA! Awesome.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

Not naked -- just kinky.   does it have a little whip, too?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Thalia the Muse said:


> Not naked -- just kinky.  does it have a little whip, too?


If you twang the elastic holding an Oberon closed, it stings... does that count?


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## Fireheart223 (Oct 3, 2010)

That's ridiculous. You can buy books of the "erotic" type genre in bookstores, so what's wrong with being able to download these on the Kindle? I have a few romance books with very racy sex scenes on my Kindle, and if anything isn't it better to have it on the Kindle where others can't see what you're reading unless you show them?    

People like what they like, and why should anyone either be judged for it or told they can't read what they want because someone else is offended by it? If you don't like it, then don't read it.


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## Pinworms (Oct 20, 2010)

Hmm, I have a huge collection of Kindle porn.  I put it all in a collection called "Delete" just in case someone is looking at my Kindle, hopefully they won't accidentally click on it... 

PS:  I would never actually buy those Romance books on Amazon or whereever.  There is so much free (and legal) resources out there, I just save the webpage, use Calibre to convert it, and put it in my Kindle.


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## jonconnington (Mar 20, 2010)

Um...trying very HARD to come up with a clever double-entendre or quip...so far coming up...er, short.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

That reminds me of the other night when I was immersed in a book while hubby was watching TV. So he asks, "So, what are you reading"    
Um, well a book?  
"What's it about"
um, well its a Historical
hubby gives me a look...
I say..
lots of historical tidbits, kilts, castles........and mighty big swords


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## carl_h (Sep 8, 2010)

Last time I looked, there wasn't anyone with a gun held to their head, forced to read or view anything.  I'm not into the porn novels, so I don't bother downloading them.  It's pretty easy to tell which books are which.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

The Kindle, or ebook reader, essentially does for the porn book consumer what the Video cassete or DVD did for the visual porn consumer.  Instead of haviing to go in public and ask for this stuff, now you can have it delivered electronically via whisper net.  I think it's kind of pathetic and sad that this stuff is so popular.  It's like dope, people get hooked on it.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

callingcrow said:


> The Kindle, or ebook reader, essentially does for the porn book consumer what the Video cassete or DVD did for the visual porn consumer. Instead of haviing to go in public and ask for this stuff, now you can have it delivered electronically via whisper net. I think it's kind of pathetic and sad that this stuff is so popular. It's like dope, people get hooked on it.


Are you kidding? The only one who really thinks this stuff is porn is the author of the piece. Most of this is erotic romance and geared toward women, and only marginally more explicit than the stuff on sale next to Cosmopolitan at the grocery store. Most households contain more explicit material (computer, back of closet, under mattress) and yet folks still manage to function in everyday life.


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## Keith Blenman (May 31, 2009)

Isn't pretty much half the Internet pornography? Like it's 50% images of naked people, 30% videos of funny cats, and 20% useful information (although the usefulness of 99% of that information is yet to be determined). Not to belittle the shock value of porn on the Kindle, but we live in an age where if it may be remotely possible to place smut on a device, thousands of people have tried it, succeeded, and are currently experimenting in new ways of sharing it with each other.

"WAIT A MINUTE?! You mean to tell me people _enjoy_ orgasms?"
How many more milleniums of sexual reproduction is it going to take for everyone to figure that out?


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

MichelleR said:


> Are you kidding? The only one who really thinks this stuff is porn is the author of the piece. Most of this is erotic romance and geared toward women, and only marginally more explicit than the stuff on sale next to Cosmopolitan at the grocery store. Most households contain more explicit material (computer, back of closet, under mattress) and yet folks still manage to function in everyday life.


A better analogy would be that Kindle does for porn books, what cable and sattelite TV did for porn movies, allows folks to stream them into their homes via wires or signals. Yes, most households may have this stuff all over, but I think it does have a corrosive effect on society.

So, you're from the Emerald Isle? Cool!


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

callingcrow said:


> A better analogy would be that Kindle does for porn books, what cable and sattelite TV did for porn movies, allows folks to stream them into their homes via wires or signals. Yes, most households may have this stuff all over, but I think it does have a corrosive effect on society.
> 
> So, you're from the Emerald Isle? Cool!


Edited out: Response to most of the above. The whole thing is absurd.

I have no idea what you mean about the Emerald Isle -- the only way I'm familiar with the term is referring to Ireland.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, anyone that thinks romance or erotic romance novels are porn, doesn't really know what Porn is.  
I mean really? 
Also naked pics does not porn make. I grew up in Europe and its normal to have the girl of the week in regular woman's magazines. The horror, nekkid boobies  . Heck, the crossword puzzles books I always bought had a half naked lady on it. 

It always baffles me how violence and war and blood and gore and shooting up people is perfectly fine, but a little heated romance or some pics are off limits. Heck they blur out nipples on TV here, I mean really  
Beware of the nipples people

And don't even get me started on how they bleep the shows on BBC america. I watch inbetweeners and its all bleep bleep bleep. And they are NOT saying the f word.  

Strange land this one.


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## sal (Aug 4, 2009)

Funny stuff.

The whole reason I got into writing Paranormal Erotica (not romance -- hardcore), is BECAUSE
of the obscenity clause in Amazon's Author Agreement.

I was bound and determined to get them to kick me off for being obscene. 
And here I am a year--and many sales--later--still there.  

I, as well, have found that my readers are mostly female. And happy that when they read my stories 
in public, no one can see the cover....

Sal


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## mathewferguson (Oct 24, 2010)

Such a strange position to take given you can quite accidentally wander into the erotica section in a real-world bookshop but to "wander" into the erotica section of the Kindle shop takes actual effort ...


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Susan in VA said:


> If you twang the elastic holding an Oberon closed, it stings... does that count?


Okay, you needed to put a warning on that - I just choked from laughing


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

I didn't see any anti-porn sentiment in the article. *scratches head* On the other hand, I WAS quite amused to note Amazon Associate tags on the 'porn' links.

BTW, 'pornography' as a label for erotic fiction may be antiquated, but it's fairly reasonable.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pornography


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