# Do you ever consider writing something bad?



## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Have any of you, besides George obviously, considered writing dross on purpose?

I mean page after page of the sexy man's sapphire eyes blazing like desert skies and making your inner goddess tremble with lust, giving you 9-paragraph orgasms that cause temporary blindness, etc.

Do you look at highlighted passages from some bestsellers and say, Dear me, but that's really stupid, so I'm going to write something stupid?

Then you create a dumb-sounding pen name and a cheesy cover, but d*mn it if the work doesn't turn out to just be okay and not horrendously terrible/stupid enough to be omg-it's-so-bad-it's-fan-fic-riffic-good popular, but still mildly amusing to a small subset of people, just like all your work?

Why do people enjoy descriptions that read like bad teen poetry? If I put in a bunch of descriptions of the male lead's irises and compare them to everything in that color range, will it get the books recommended more?


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I mean page after page of the sexy man's sapphire eyes blazing like desert skies and making your inner goddess tremble with lust, giving you 9-paragraph orgasms that cause temporary blindness, etc.


I'd buy that.

p.s. Unfortunately, mine's probably dross unintentionally.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

I've never considered it until now, Dalya.  You make it sound so appealing!


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm always in favor of nine paragraph orgasms that leave me blinded.


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## Dawnchapel (Sep 16, 2012)

I know that in the audience for fantasy illustration, there's a significant number of people who are more interested in stuff they feel like they themselves might be able to draw if they were having a particularly good day, rather than the tightly-rendered, perfectly composed, high end concept art stuff.  I'm prepared to believe that the same is true of readers of slovenly prose: that they enjoy it more because they aren't challenged by it.


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## JonDavis1 (Apr 11, 2012)

Three things come to mind in reading this...

You're speaking about a culture that found "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?" to be one of the most incredible and intelligent shows in the country?

Oh and "Fifty Shades of..."something or other... I've heard something about it...

An FB meme of someone writing something incredibly deep and profound. And gets 4 likes
Another person writing, "I went shopping today!" And gets over a thousand likes....

Go for it. Dross is in


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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

smreine said:


> I'm always in favor of nine paragraph orgasms that leave me blinded.


^^^

This, Oh, yes, this.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Neil Gaiman says to "make good art," so I'd be violating the Good Art rule by writing in a style I don't find enjoyable to read.

And I have tried. And failed.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

smreine said:


> I'm always in favor of nine paragraph orgasms that leave me blinded.


I'll skip the 9 paragraphs - just get me the blinding orgasm.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

smreine said:


> I'm always in favor of nine paragraph orgasms that leave me blinded.


But you don't *get* them. You just read it while furrowing your brow and increasing your face wrinkles, because you didn't remember picking up a book about non-humans from the Planet SmashWord or whatever.

p.s. What was up with last night's American Horror Story? Lactation stuff plus necro-stuff? WTF? I felt like I was watching the new releases page of Smashwords come to life.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Dalya said:


> p.s. What was up with last night's American Horror Story? Lactation stuff plus necro-stuff? WTF? I felt like I was watching the new releases page of Smashwords come to life.


Wow. Obviously I need to catch up on that.

You okay? You've lost your metrics.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Do I ever consider writing "_page after page of the sexy man's sapphire eyes blazing like desert skies and making your inner goddess tremble with lust, giving you 9-paragraph orgasms that cause temporary blindness, etc_."?

Yes.
But then my boyfriend tells me I'll hate myself in the morning.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

smreine said:


> Wow. Obviously I need to catch up on that.
> 
> You okay? You've lost your metrics.


I love American Horror Story because it's so freaking smart, well-written, surprising, and bloody entertaining. (WHICH IS, COINCIDENTALLY, THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF *MANY* POPULAR THINGS-present company KB authors excluded from this sweeping generalization.) I don't like the horror genre at all, and the imagery in my head wouldn't let me sleep last night, but gosh. And the production values! All the camera angles and interesting shots, ON TOP of a compelling storyline? So good. So much better than the sexposition scenes of GoT and the endless vampire board room meetings of True Blood. Yes, I could do with a bit less necro-stuff, but I'm an AHS fan.

Yes, I have lost my metrics. The code's in a notepad and I'll put it back when it is taunting me less. I don't like you guys knowing when I write 218 words in a day's work, so I may only update it once a month. I also don't like you seeing that I have sales, yet I keep bellyaching about how miserable I am about publishing some days. 



Anya said:


> Yes.
> But then my boyfriend tells me I'll hate myself in the morning.


I don't know. Would you? Would you, really?


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Yes, I have lost my metrics.


No, I still see them there. Have either or both of you recently had a nine page big O?  Might be blindness setting in.


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## MegSilver (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't consider it. It happens naturally.


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## merryxmas (Jun 21, 2012)

If only I can be o.k. with writing the seven hundredth incarnation of sad-in-the-pants teenage girl who lusts after sparkly superbutts.  One day, one day...


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

I've made a decent wage doing just what you're describing.


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## Cameron McKeth (Apr 21, 2011)

smreine said:


> I'm always in favor of nine paragraph orgasms that leave me blinded.


Have I got a story for you! *Eyebrow waggle*


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Dalya said:


> I don't know. Would you? Would you, really?


Hmmm maybe if I were on a beach in Bora Bora sipping tequila and the money was falling off the trees like over-ripe coconuts....
Sorry... what were you saying


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2013)

_Everything_ I write is bad by certain (realism based) standards. I love it though so that's what I write...


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Dalya said:


> I don't know. Would you? Would you, really?


I would sort of hate myself. Then I'd pay of our student loans and our car loan and send our kids to that Waldorf school up in the hills. So, you know, not so much on the hating. 

But the thing is, it's got to be really hard to write that stuff if you _actually think it's bad_. Either you'll revert to your usual style or it'll come off sounding like parody, and that's not going to do the trick.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Hmmm. You have my vote for a hilarious romance satire...you'll probably make millions


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Becca Mills said:


> But the thing is, it's got to be really hard to write that stuff if you _actually think it's bad_. Either you'll revert to your usual style or it'll come off sounding like parody, and that's not going to do the trick.


I dunno. If you could manage to slip into another personality in your mind, kinda like slipping into the POV of a character, someone who actually THINKS in that way, that might work. Basically, you'd write the thing as someone else. Maybe you could take a character you've read about or seen and use that as a basis, then modify to suit what you're doing. Might take ten thousand words to get on a roll and be consistent, but I think it wouldn't be any harder than trying to slip into the head of an eccentric character in a historic novel.


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## Orlando Winters (Dec 30, 2012)

I don't write fiction, so I wouldn't know for sure, but can't you just eavesdrop on a teenage girl and write down (verbatim) what she says over the phone to her friend Ashley, about Connor, the new boy in school? I figure if you do that and make Connor either a vampire or malleable miscreant with a godlike body, you'll have yourself a hit.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

I agree with Becca Mills.
Despite my kidding in my posts above, I know anything that appeals to the popular imagination is damned hard to write - and those who can appeal to millions have a talent for doing so.

If anyone could write stuff like that, we'd have shysters churning them out - the kind who make those awful one-page websites with the never-ending _get-rich-quick! _ad copy.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

vrabinec said:


> I dunno. If you could manage to slip into another personality in your mind, kinda like slipping into the POV of a character, someone who actually THINKS in that way, that might work. Basically, you'd write the thing as someone else. Maybe you could take a character you've read about or seen and use that as a basis, then modify to suit what you're doing. Might take ten thousand words to get on a roll and be consistent, but I think it wouldn't be any harder than trying to slip into the head of an eccentric character in a historic novel.


Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. I could write something in third-person first, writing how I naturally write (which is that I try to make my characters seem smart), and then lower the sophistication of the main character and re-write it in first person from her POV. I'd allow myself fifteen minutes to work on the description of him in every scene and I would _workshop _it, using every type of gemstone to describe his eyes, etcetera. Scratch that. I'd spend an entire day just jewelling up the descriptions of the He-Man.

I would have to bend reality to have Mr. Superman still be interested in Dumb Loser Chick, but I could just pretend there's a parallel dimension thing happening and I'm blending two separate narratives. OR that it was all her dream, and I remove the ending where she wakes up with Bobby in the shower*.

(*Dallas reference.)


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

vrabinec said:


> I dunno. If you could manage to slip into another personality in your mind, kinda like slipping into the POV of a character, someone who actually THINKS in that way, that might work. Basically, you'd write the thing as someone else. Maybe you could take a character you've read about or seen and use that as a basis, then modify to suit what you're doing. Might take ten thousand words to get on a roll and be consistent, but I think it wouldn't be any harder than trying to slip into the head of an eccentric character in a historic novel.


It'd take a better actor than I am, I think. I remember seeing some of the actors from a Christopher Guest movie ... _Guffman_, maybe ... talking about how it's essential that they actually take their characters seriously. They can't be internally laughing at people they're portraying, even if those people are and are supposed to be ridiculous. But boy that's got to be hard to pull off.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Becca Mills said:


> It'd take a better actor than I am, I think. I remember seeing some of the actors from a Christopher Guest movie ... _Guffman_, maybe ... talking about how it's essential that they actually take their characters seriously. They can't be internally laughing at people they're portraying, even if those people are and are supposed to be ridiculous. But boy that's got to be hard to pull off.


Definitely. People do NOT want a satire that makes fun of what they like. Maybe they'll sample one satire, once, but there's no appetite there, I don't think. What's the target market for Twilight satire? I'd guess probably just other authors.



Anya said:


> I agree with Becca Mills.
> Despite my kidding in my posts above, I know anything that appeals to the popular imagination is damned hard to write - and those who can appeal to millions have a talent for doing so.
> 
> If anyone could write stuff like that, we'd have shysters churning them out - the kind who make those awful one-page websites with the never-ending _get-rich-quick! _ad copy.


I was ...(edited to remove incriminating evidence of my evilness)... BUT THAT IS BECAUSE I AM THE DEVIL.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I still cherish dreams of designing a really silly cover, pairing it up with an equally silly title & writing a story to match it.  Haven't had the time to do it yet & probably won't for a few more years.  One day though...


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I would have to bend reality to have Mr. Superman still be interested in Dumb Loser Chick


Just give her a nice rack. It worked on the old millionaire who married Anna Nicole Smith.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Neil Gaiman says to "make good art," so I'd be violating the Good Art rule by writing in a style I don't find enjoyable to read.
> 
> And I have tried. And failed.


As I'm apparently the memetic master of dross here on KB, I feel slightly compelled to point out that this really is critical. I have honestly enjoyed (carpal-tunnel and my brilliant idea to draft one of them longhand, with a pen, notwithstanding) writing the two or three pieces of intentionally "horrible" drivel I've produced; in the case of two of them, because I do very much enjoy the style, closely reminiscent of that of adventure stories of the late 1800s, however "wrong" and unpopular it might be today. (Insert usual rant about how if Dickens were alive today he'd never get published or would get his self-published books smothered with one-star reviews on stylistic grounds...) They were also very fun to write because I found it amusing to see how many "rules" I could break in more-or-less unobjectionable ways, and what strange sorts of things I could get away with doing while flexing writing muscles that don't get used very often. One, for example, contains a clear and probably-grammatically-correct (AFAIK...) sentence that's around four-hundred words long, and various other things that conventional wisdom and common sense says one Ought Not Do, but which are, it turns out, quite fun, at least when done in moderation. 

In the case of the third, it's "bad" in large part due to a strange and extremely fundamental technical standpoint; I thought (quite correctly, as it turned out...) that it'd be an interesting writing challenge to write a story from the "wrong" point of view, on purpose. (Hear that? It's the sound of editors' foreheads hitting their desks.  ) It's done as something that fell out of favor many decades ago - a first-person story told in the third person, which is to say, a story told in the first person... _in dialogue_, to the point of view character. (There was, I think, a lengthy discussion about the "best" POV here on KB at the time. Everyone, as usual, hated second person, and people were split about fifty-fifty between first and third, so I thought it'd be amusing to do something that was the best of both worlds, just for the lulz.) Instead of _So there I was, waiting for a phone call that would never come, beginning to feel like a fool, when John walked in._, (first-person POV) it's _"So there I was," she said, frowning, "waiting for a phone call that would never come, beginning to feel like a fool, when John walked in."_. (Third-person POV, but with the _entire_ story in first-person.) It was also an amusing way to poke fun at myself; people who might have read any non-goat-related books of mine may recall, in the absence of therapy, that I tend to include extraordinarily large amounts of dialogue; in that particular story, I took things to the extreme, such that it's twenty pages of 99% dialogue. And it was fun to write, not just because it's a fun story, in and of itself, but because that kind of POV weirdness is so bizarre nobody today would ever pull it off by accident. I had zero expectations that it'd sell, and so far I've been, uh, not disappointed, as it's sold, um, mid single-digits, for various reasons not all of which have to do with the writing quality. But I did it for the challenge, and because I could, not because I was under the illusion that lots and lots of people were going to want to read it.

I think that challenging yourself as a writer in strange ways like that can be a good way to keep writing fun, and to stave off writer's block. I wouldn't want to write _a steady stream_ of nothing but stylistically-suspect Victorian melodramas, or stories in an unholy hybrid of first and third person, or PG-13 fetish erotica stories that contain no dirty words, or stories that contain _no_ dialogue, or epistolary stories... but I also wouldn't want to write a steady stream of nothing but first-person thriller novels, or third-person romance novels, either. Variety might not be great from a marketing standpoint, but it helps keep me motivated and writing, for better or worse.

I tend to think that readers who aren't also writers will, more often than not, forgive or completely overlook a lot of odd stylistic excesses *if* the story they're in is otherwise sufficiently interesting and compelling. In a nutshell, if you're good enough (something I don't claim to be) and know what you're doing (ditto), I think you can break a lot if not all of the "rules", intentionally, doing so carefully and deliberately. Nine-paragraph orgasms? Sure, why not, if you do it _well_? I bet if a bunch of us got motivated, put our heads together, and carefully planned the whole thing out, we could write an _awesome_ orgasm that lasted four pages or more and would leave folks shaking their heads in a mix of amazement and disbelief. One long paragraph describing the mesmerizing azure depths of the hero's fiercely glittering ocular orbs, set deeply in the tanned skin of his lean and angular face? It _can_ be done well, under the right circumstances, with enough effort - but effort that, if you're not intentionally trying to make a point or whatever, is almost certainly better spent elsewhere, though.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> I've made a decent wage doing just what you're describing.


I get that you're being self-deprecating, and perhaps you see your work as "bad" because you always want it to be better, but it is not bad. Wool has clean, tight prose that's literary-award quality, combined with a delicious mystery hook, highly intelligent and capable characters, plus modern pacing. It is not bad. Not bad, my friend.

@ George Berger -- yeah the problem is you LIKED IT.  

In general - my crisis of faith is that I want to believe that if you strive to make something good, you may make good things that will be appreciated. But every month, I work harder and put out more in order to get a smaller return (in good reviews, encouragement in the form of fans, and sales). I do study the market and wonder if my idea of "good" is just [expletive]. I do see a few people, such as HH, having excellent luck with good art, but I see waaaaaaaaaay more stuff that isn't good. (This is only directed at the worst of the bestsellers, not anyone we know.)


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Wool has clean, tight prose that's literary-award quality, combined with a delicious mystery hook, highly intelligent and capable characters, plus modern pacing. It is not bad. Not bad, my friend.


Stop stroking his ego, Dalya. You are making an unbearable monster out of him! 

_(Just kidding, Hugh. We know you are as humble as Mama's apple pie)_


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalya said:


> @ George Berger -- yeah the problem is you LIKED IT.


I may have made many unsupportable claims over the years, claims both grandiose and miniscule, but I don't believe I've ever claimed to have good _taste_.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

KayBratt said:


> Stop stroking his ego, Dalya. You are making an unbearable monster out of him!
> 
> _(Just kidding, Hugh. We know you are as humble as Mama's apple pie)_


One does not need ego-stroking to become an unbearable monster (to one's self).  One need only self-publish!


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

Does anyone here make money any other way?


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalya said:


> In general - my crisis of faith is that I want to believe that if you strive to make something good, you may make good things that will be appreciated. But every month, I work harder and put out more in order to get a smaller return (in good reviews, encouragement in the form of fans, and sales). I do study the market and wonder if my idea of "good" is just [expletive]. I do see a few people, such as HH, having excellent luck with good art, but I see waaaaaaaaaay more stuff that isn't good. (This is only directed at the worst of the bestsellers, not anyone we know.)


The thing about "the worst of the bestsellers" is that they appeal, or in many cases pander, to the lowest common denominator. I think a lot of us have a really hard time bringing ourselves to do that, for one reason or another. I like to think that the best of the bestsellers sort of offset this, but I'm probably kidding myself. I think that, among all the other kind of cliche'd advice that gets tossed around, "write the book you'd like to read" might be the most important. Your or my tastes might be terribly at odds with those of the reading public at large, but if we can't have sales and riches - and writing deliberately pandering populist drivel is no guarantee of either - we can at least have books we enjoy and are proud of, even if for all the wrong reasons.


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Neil Gaiman says to "make good art," so I'd be violating the Good Art rule by writing in a style I don't find enjoyable to read.
> 
> And I have tried. And failed.


Couldn't you make good art that is a satire of bad art?


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## rubyscribe (Jun 2, 2011)

Appealing to the LCD (No, not the TV  ) .... I've done it.  I admit to being vane enough to think that my short stories were literary fiction.  Then I wrote a HEA short story about a wedding, and when I was done writing it, I told myself it was too dumb.  However, dumb sells.  That's my best selling title so far.  Learning my lesson about sales, I recently wrote another story about revenge (no literary fiction attempt here) and am currently working on another mass appeal topic.  HEA is where the moolah lies.

Think of your "bad" stuff as your Cash cow (marketing terminology for a money maker) that funds your literary fiction endeavors etc.  An author needs $$$ to show for his/her time and effort.   

BTW: I'd go so far as to write romance, but nothing more.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Dalya said:


> Definitely. People do NOT want a satire that makes fun of what they like. Maybe they'll sample one satire, once, but there's no appetite there, I don't think. What's the target market for Twilight satire? I'd guess probably just other authors.


I think it depends on the type of satire. Galaxy Quest satirized Star Trek, and Trek fans generally enjoyed it. It's a matter of laughing with vs. laughing at.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

George Berger said:


> The thing about "the worst of the bestsellers" is that they appeal, or in many cases pander, to the lowest common denominator. I think a lot of us have a really hard time bringing ourselves to do that, for one reason or another. I like to think that the best of the bestsellers sort of offset this, but I'm probably kidding myself. I think that, among all the other kind of cliche'd advice that gets tossed around, "write the book you'd like to read" might be the most important. Your or my tastes might be terribly at odds with those of the reading public at large, but if we can't have sales and riches - and writing deliberately pandering populist drivel is no guarantee of either - we can at least have books we enjoy and are proud of, even if for all the wrong reasons.


I'm proud of everything I've put out to date. Maybe it really is just mind-blowingly simple what the problem is. I don't do a ton of description of characters. I'm going to dial up my descriptions a notch. I will continue to be a judgemental prick when I read [crap] writing that's earning a ton of money. I will not touch my computer after 9pm and I will certainly not read reviews before bedtime, if ever.



rubyscribe said:


> Appealing to the LCD (No, not the TV  ) .... I've done it. I admit to being vane enough to think that my short stories were literary fiction. Then I wrote a HEA short story about a wedding, and when I was done writing it, I told myself it was too dumb. *However, dumb sells.* That's my best selling title so far. Learning my lesson about sales, I recently wrote another story about revenge (no literary fiction attempt here) and am currently working on another mass appeal topic. HEA is where the moolah lies.
> 
> Think of your "bad" stuff as your Cash cow (marketing terminology for a money maker) that funds your literary fiction endeavors etc. An author needs $$$ to show for his/her time and effort.
> 
> BTW: I'd go so far as to write romance, but nothing more.


Getting the T-shirts printed right now!


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

I thought it was pretty revolting, but most people liked _Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows_....


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> I thought it was pretty revolting, but most people liked _Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows_....


Few people know that we co-wrote that book! LOL

BTW, I got one of my friends hooked on Smashwords. Not buying the porno books, but sending me links to the funniest-looking ones. Then we discuss.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I am writing an NA romance in 10 days. (4 days to go!)

I don't think it's bad, and I don't think it will sell.

If I could seriously write one of those contemporary romances where the whole plot hinges on a series of misunderstandings between the main characters, then maybe it would sell.

But alas, I can't stand such things.

So mine has gun fights.

Like I said, not going to sell. But this is about as close as I can get to trying to bastardize myself and write something popular in an attempt to make money. (Hey, _Beautiful Disaster_ had a whole Vegas poker-scamming subplot. And it had underground boxing matches. That's kind of close to gun fights. I could STILL be Jamie McGuire. It could happen.)


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

valeriec80 said:


> I am writing an NA romance in 10 days. (4 days to go!)
> 
> I don't think it's bad, and I don't think it will sell.
> 
> ...


See, your book sounds good to me. Therefore, it will not sell.    j/k, I say go for it.

Also, it's not misunderstandings that keeps Mr. SuperMan and Ms. Sub-Average-IQ from being together. It's one's Pride and the other's Prejudice. doy.


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## DCBourone (Sep 10, 2012)

Am doing precisely this.
In a very 'popular' genre.
New pen name, id., etc.
The product will make shatteringly more money than Injured Reserves.
It will be at the end, entirely not what people thought.
Will contain a quite savage hook.
I handle it the way one should handle all poisonous things:
With tongs.

DCB, Fan of Dalya


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> I am writing an NA romance in 10 days. (4 days to go!)


Valerie, does that mean you're writing a book in 10 days 
You're my hero....

And you write so well. How do you do it?!?

I have a NA on the backburner to write after Dollhouse #3. I'm only 5500 words into Dollhouse #3, so I'm a looong way off (I write like a snail on valium....).

Edited to say: Dalya, the devil is in the detail. Yanno... like eyes that sparkle in the shine emanating from the lustrous glow of the myriad surfaces of an iridescent diamond....


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

DCBourone said:


> Am doing precisely this.
> In a very 'popular' genre.
> New pen name, id., etc.
> The product will make shatteringly more money than Injured Reserves.
> ...


Sounds interesting... but make sure you finish Wet or Dry too!


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

JonDavis1 said:


> Three things come to mind in reading this...
> 
> You're speaking about a culture that found "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?" to be one of the most incredible and intelligent shows in the country?
> 
> ...


And the deck band is playing frantically along in double-time.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Dalya said:


> Few people know that we co-wrote that book! LOL


I'm pretty sure I wrote that one myself. I'd post an excerpt, but it would probably be censored...

First paragraph:
[quote author=AmsterdamAssassin]The day had just begun, the broiling heat turning the public lavatory into a feast of fermented fragrances. Lolling on a toilet seat with one yellow boot against the graffiti-smudged door with the broken lock and the other in a pool of vomit seeping into his cubicle from the stall next door Captain Smegma took a deep breath and gritted his teeth, the turd fighting a hopeless battle to remain inside his wart-infested anus. His left eyelid started to flutter with the sudden pain of a haemorrhoid popping open, but the blood lubricated his sphincter and the turd was defeated, dropping in the pool of blue disinfectant and orange morning urine.[/quote]


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## Claudia King (Oct 27, 2012)

Consider it? It's practically all I do! 
Most of my orgasms only last one paragraph at a time though. That being said, a few of them may have resulted in temporary blindness.

I'm hoping that by the time I can make a living off pulpy erotica/eRom I'll have polished up my writing (and cleared up my schedule) to the point where I'm comfortable tackling a proper novel. Then we'll see how well I manage to avoid describing the main characters' eyes every chapter. I should probably stop making them have sex too.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Ewww AmsterdamAssassin. Captain Smegma wins rate-my-poo-dot-com.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Claudia King said:


> Most of my orgasms only last one paragraph at a time though. That being said, a few of them may have resulted in temporary blindness.


Ah, but, see, you write books where orgasms are _expected_, I infer from the covers.

For best blindness-inducing impact, the multi-paragraph orgasm lies in wait and ambushes the reader when they least expect it. You know, something that starts with "She tuned the words out, letting her mind - and soon her hand, unconsciously - drift, the former filling readily with wonderful memories of languid afternoons spent watching Professor Arnoldson's long and slender hands dart nimbly to and fro across the blackboard, diagramming quadratic equations..." and eventually concludes, _several pages later_, with "...but another would, she thought, sighing slightly with remorse in the darkened space, cheeks still flushed, have to wait, for it appeared the officer was finally about to usher a group of men that might include her husband's killer into the lineup room."


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Maybe a compromise position is possible. Like I said, I think trying to write something you think is bad while you're writing it is probably a non-starter for most people. But that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to try to stretch oneself as a writer. Isn't that a lot of what happens in creative writing classes? "Write this kind of thing," the teacher says, and a bunch of writers who've never tried that kind of thing go home and try it. And for some of them, magic happens. But without the pressure to try something new, they might've missed out.

So maybe it's good to occasionally experiment, to give yourself a strange assignment. Today I'm going to write a scene in second person. Today I'll write short story that breaks the rules of POV in some way. Today I'll try to write some dialogue in a dialect. Today I'll write magic realism. Today I'll write from an animal's POV. Or like Dalya was suggesting: today I'll write a passage of detailed physical description about a character. I mean, why not? It's good to push ourselves in new directions, even if they're not ultimately directions we decide to go in a big way, right? We might discover new strengths, new tools. Or develop them, if they're not lying there waiting to be discovered.

Does anyone do this kind of thing already?


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Anya said:


> Ewww AmsterdamAssassin. Captain Smegma wins rate-my-poo-dot-com.


And yet, it was entertaining. But no more, please.



Becca Mills said:


> Maybe a compromise position is possible. Like I said, I think trying to write something you think is bad while you're writing it is probably a non-starter for most people. But that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to try to stretch oneself as a writer. Isn't that a lot of what happens in creative writing classes? "Write this kind of thing," the teacher says, and a bunch of writers who've never tried that kind of thing go home and try it. And for some of them, magic happens. But without the pressure to try something new, they might've missed out.
> ...


Yes, this is a big part of why I have so many pen names now. I really like writing under a male name some days, even though I am a very proper lady.  

I think I could be a very happy writer putting out 5-10k words stories that aren't in a series, but the longer series are what people want.

I put out a stand-alone novel last month, and I guess I had high hopes because now I'm disappointed. It's selling ... but ... yeah, it's not gonna happen. I really put my heart into it, with a lot of personal experiences, and I think it's one of the best things I've done but some reviewers are like "meh" and my sales are like "meh" and BLAHBLAHBLAHPOORFREAKINGME.

It's not like if you write a stand-alone, suddenly all the people who rag on your serials are going to run out and buy your stand-alone, ya know?

Well I just uploaded something and now I'm going to head to Starbucks to allow the final moments of daylight to touch my pale face as I groan and poke at my characters until they do it, or fight, or both at the same time. (eyebrow waggle)


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

JonDavis1 said:


> Three things come to mind in reading this...
> 
> You're speaking about a culture that found "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?" to be one of the most incredible and intelligent shows in the country?
> 
> ...


This makes me sad because it's true.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Dalya said:


> And yet, it was entertaining. But no more, please.
> 
> Yes, this is a big part of why I have so many pen names now. I really like writing under a male name some days, even though I am a very proper lady.
> 
> ...


There's not much a Starbucks mocha won't cure. Sip and be happy.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Not only have I considered it, I actively made it happen (all in the name of charity!).


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I put out a stand-alone novel last month, and I guess I had high hopes because now I'm disappointed. It's selling ... but ... yeah, it's not gonna happen. I really put my heart into it, with a lot of personal experiences, and I think it's one of the best things I've done but some reviewers are like "meh" and my sales are like "meh" and BLAHBLAHBLAHPOORFREAKINGME.


Never forget, Dalya, that reviews are just opinions, okay? And opinions are like belly buttons - everyone has one, but some are a _lot_ nicer than others. 

You want to talk about disappointment? Know how well the first book I put out _after_ the goat thing has done?










(The _second_ thing I put out after the goat book has made enough to pay for most of my utility bills this year, so far. You never can tell...)


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Anya said:


> Valerie, does that mean you're writing a book in 10 days
> You're my hero....
> 
> And you write so well. How do you do it?!?


Thanks.  (It's not a super-long book. I'm shooting for 80K-ish.)

But I only decided to do it because I want to be Elle Casey in addition to Jamie McGuire.

Elle Casey wrote over A MILLION words last year.

That's a lot of words.

She is awe-inspiring.

(And I don't know how she does it. I am a big piece of stupid exhaustion at the end of the day. All I can do is watch TLC shows on Netflix and fall asleep early. And it's silly, because all I'm doing is writing 8K a day, which works out to writing for 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. That's how much I used to work at a regular job. So... I don't know why it's so tiring. But it really, really is. Blegg. But I have come too far to give up now. Only four more days!)


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## Josh Kilen (Aug 10, 2011)

Honestly I had the same thought a little while back. Last month I wrote a non-fiction "manual" in a niche market. Filled it with semi-helpful info, used every marketing gimmick around in the cover and description, created a pen name designed and tested to sound trustworthy, and generally made it all LOOK fantastic. Now it's making a steady income, number one in its category, and getting good reviews. Thought about taking it down for moral reasons, but I like money and people are finding some use for it I suppose.

I guess that's the rub, you can avoid writing what you think is dross but if readers likey, what can you say? Not that you should commit to a career of hackery but a large percentage of people like this stuff for a reason.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

[Coming out of a nine-page blinding orgasm] Whha...what?


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## ToniD (May 3, 2011)

My problem is that I'd get stuck on paragraph two of the blinding orgasm searching for the right words.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

I actually have a few pen names that are dedicated to "bad" stories. I have a really odd, sometimes twisted sense of humor. Unfortunately, the things I enjoy writing when I'm in that kind of mood aren't exactly bestsellers. I do publish shorts under those names when I do that sort of writing. Believe it or not, I manage to sell a few copies each month.

Also, I have written plenty of 9-paragraph orgasms that leave the main character blinded. Perhaps that's why I'm not considered a very prolific author of adult tales.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> Thanks.  (It's not a super-long book. I'm shooting for 80K-ish.)
> 
> But I only decided to do it because I want to be Elle Casey in addition to Jamie McGuire.
> 
> ...


Not super-long.. *just* 80K
What?
That's verrry decent novel length. That's spectacular to achieve in just a few days!!

And Elle Casey and her million words a year? She's at Goddess status. I think she must point a divining rod at the screen and the words just come bubbling out like a spring.


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## AJCooper (Sep 9, 2012)

Dalya said:


> Have any of you, besides George obviously, considered writing dross on purpose?
> 
> I mean page after page of the sexy man's sapphire eyes blazing like desert skies and making your inner goddess tremble with lust, giving you 9-paragraph orgasms that cause temporary blindness, etc.
> 
> ...


When I write something bad, it's not usually on purpose.


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## angelperezfreeman (Jan 2, 2013)

yes Ms. Dalya.
i do write dross on purpose. it's pulp fiction. it's cheap and dirty and throwaway.
i wouldn`t want it to be anything else.
judging by some of the other material on this platform i'm not the only one.
apf.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I guess one person's vomit-inducing description is another person's creative description. Therefore, I just have to put more creativity into some of my descriptions. I'm sure they will make some people cringe or eyeroll, yet other people will think that, because I've used twelve adjectives, I've put a lot of work into it!

Yes, yes, it is all subjective. I'd never say that an entire genre is crap, and as a pulp fiction writer of low-brow things myself, I'd never say that pulp fiction is crap! 

I guess we all have some pet peeves in stuff we read, and I certainly can't say I'm perfect. Why, in the last seven days alone I put out a story where someone removed their shirt twice in a row, and another one that had two awful typos right in the description. (The disturbing thing is, people still bought it, even with two typos in the description.) I caught these things because I do look over everything a few days later, when I sober up.

@George -- I do have nightmares about things being in the 900,000 range. I'm sure that as the tsunami flood of back list, assisted by Amazon's new "white glove" service for literary agents, hits the servers, all our books will be taking on some extra digits. I think 2009-2012 was a golden opportunity for self-pubbers, and we're about to see the aisle get narrower.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Anya said:


> Ewww AmsterdamAssassin. Captain Smegma wins rate-my-poo-dot-com.


It gets steadily more revolting as the story progresses...


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Dalya said:


> I'd never say that an entire genre is crap, and as a pulp fiction writer of low-brow things myself, I'd never say that pulp fiction is crap!


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

ToniD said:


> My problem is that I'd get stuck on paragraph two of the blinding orgasm searching for the right words.


After two paragraphs, the right words are, "I'm done, babe. I'm gonna go down and get the rest of the cold pizza and a beer. Want anything?"


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## Fantasma (Aug 25, 2012)

vrabinec said:


> After two paragraphs, the right words are, "I'm done, babe. I'm gonna go down and get the rest of the cold pizza and a beer. Want anything?"


"Yeah, get your sorry butt back here. I'm not done. It's gonna take me two more paragraphs, Speedy."


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Fantasma said:


> "Yeah, get your sorry butt back here. I'm not done. It's gonna take me two more paragraphs, Speedy."


"Am I gonna have to break out the Roto-rooter again?"


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## Hudson Owen (May 18, 2012)

There is a difference between satirizing dumb and dumber, and catching the wave.  I'm an inventive rhymer and could satirize rap (not necessarily dumb but an alien sensibility).  I don't see any point in doing it.  Really bad for me would be loosing my worst demons onto the page without any redemption, the dark side without light.


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## destill (Oct 5, 2010)

Lynn McNamee said:


> This makes me sad because it's true.


Yes, Lynn, I believe we had that discussion. Didn't we?


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