# Wireless Network Discussion



## webhill (Feb 12, 2009)

Scheherazade said:


> It'd be nice if I could park alongside of the road and download a new album or something without needing a 3/4G connection.


Ah, I see. Well, I guess I'm just lucky to live somewhere that has free wifi in most places. Between Starbucks, Panera, Whole Foods, Giant and McDonalds, there are free wifi networks covering most of the places where I'd want to stop and park! Last week I was at my kids' school, and they won't give people the wifi password for the lower school network, so I walked around the corner and found about ten open wifi networks on the adjacent residential street, and was able to immediately download the file I'd accidentally deleted off my iPad while I was trying to show it to the school secretary, ha ha.

-h.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

webhill said:


> I walked around the corner and found about ten open wifi networks on the adjacent residential street, and was able to immediately download the file I'd accidentally deleted off my iPad while I was trying to show it to the school secretary, ha ha.
> -h.


It's one thing to take advantage of public hotspots-that's what they are there for, but it's very wrong to hop on to someone's private network uninvited. It's flat out STUPID for people to leave them open (it takes all of 5 minutes to secure them) but that doesn't mean it's right to use them, anymore than it's okay to walk into someone's home and help yourself just because they left their door unlocked. It's still trespassing and if you take something (like bandwidth) it's stealing. It's not hard to detect or track either and both you and the person who couldn't be bothered to secure their network could get in trouble (most ISPs have wording in their TOS that running an unsecured network is a violation. They don't want their customers letting the neighborhood use their connection.) Please stick to public hotspots.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

NYCKindleFan said:


> It's one thing to take advantage of public hotspots-that's what they are there for, but it's very wrong to hop on to someone's private network uninvited. It's flat out STUPID for people to leave them open (it takes all of 5 minutes to secure them) but that doesn't mean it's right to use them, anymore than it's okay to walk into someone's home and help yourself just because they left their door unlocked. It's still trespassing and if you take something (like bandwidth) it's stealing. It's not hard to detect or track either and both you and the person who couldn't be bothered to secure their network could get in trouble (most ISPs have wording in their TOS that running an unsecured network is a violation. They don't want their customers letting the neighborhood use their connection.) Please stick to public hotspots.


I agree, using someone's private network *without permission* is without a doubt THEFT.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Sugar said:


> I agree, using someone's private network *without permission* is without a doubt THEFT.


I disagree with that. It's pretty easy to secure a home network, if you want to -- I'm finding it, actually, much harder to find unsecured home networks than it used to be, and that's a good thing. But it's not like you're going into their house and getting on their computer. If you just use the signal to get onto the internet to do your stuff, you're using free airwaves.

Now, it would be wrong to use that open connection to hack into their system. And, you should realize that while you're on the open connection, they might be sitting inside their house just waiting for someone to log onto it so they can hack into your system. So. It's not the smartest thing to do. But there's nothing illegal about it, in my opinion.

But I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. And I'm pretty sure it's not been tested anywhere in the courts anyway. It would be interesting to know if it had been and what the ruling was. . . . .


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

It's not a free airwave, the person who's network you are using is paying for it.


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## Eeyore (Jul 16, 2009)

OT: If anyone is interested in a somewhat boring but sensible legal-type discourse on the subject of using an unsecured Wifi access, it can be read here:

http://clarksburgdailymirror.dancalloway.com/2010/03/01/is-making-use-of-unprotected-wi-fi-stealing/

I try and avoid reading legal type stuff after having served on many many juries. Apparently lawyers on both sides of the aisle just LOVE retired people. 

Best Wishes!


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I disagree with that. It's pretty easy to secure a home network, if you want to -- I'm finding it, actually, much harder to find unsecured home networks than it used to be, and that's a good thing. But it's not like you're going into their house and getting on their computer. If you just use the signal to get onto the internet to do your stuff, you're using free airwaves.
> 
> Now, it would be wrong to use that open connection to hack into their system. And, you should realize that while you're on the open connection, they might be sitting inside their house just waiting for someone to log onto it so they can hack into your system. So. It's not the smartest thing to do. But there's nothing illegal about it, in my opinion.
> 
> But I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. And I'm pretty sure it's not been tested anywhere in the courts anyway. It would be interesting to know if it had been and what the ruling was. . . . .


Um, no. It's not free. You're using an internet connection someone else is paying for, and without their permission. That's stealing. It's not your network and it's not meant to be a public hotspot. You're taking advantage of someone's laziness or ignorance (the only two reasons I can think of for not securing your home network) and trespassing in a private space.

And yes, it's very easy to snoop around in someone's computer if they haven't bothered to secure the network its attached to. Furthermore, if you help yourself to someone's private,unsecured connection and then say, decide to download a movie from iTunes or stream Pandora or Hulu, your bandwidth theft will slow down that person's connection.

Just don't do it. It's stealing and it's wrong.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

They are not free airwaves at all, someone is paying for them and if that someone isn't you then you have no business on it without permission.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

If someone wants to connect via wi-fi then find a public wi-fi spot, or buy your own.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

coyote said:


> I have to disagree with this post in its entirety.
> 
> First of all, locking up a wifi hot spot is not as trivial as you make it out to be. I just tried to lock up my friend's hot spot here in Maui, and several of his Windows machines refused to work with a WPA password. (The macs, of course, all worked fine.)
> 
> ...


Yes, it is a simple thing to secure a network. Sorry your friend had trouble, but for most people it's simple and painless.

Leaving your network open isn't a nice thing to do. It's STUPID. Period. By leaving it open you leave every computer attached to it open to hackers. They have automated programs that search for unsecured networks and take full advantage of them. Anyone can log into your network and snoop around in your private files. Want your friends to be able to use it? Fine. Secure it and give them the password. My parents have their network secured and simply give me the password when I visit.

As for leaving your door unlocked, you must live in Mayberry USA. Here in the real world that is very unwise and even dangerous. You're naive if you think otherwise and very lucky you haven't had anything bad happen to your or your family.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

coyote said:


> Actually, my friend didn't know how to lock his network, which is why he asked me and my husband to look at it. We're both engineers with experience dating back to the ARPANet. You'll have to trust me that it wasn't simple at all. It involved flashing the eproms on network cards, patching base station firmware, and it still didn't work (for reasons neither of us understand.) One thing I've learned from user studies is that one should never underestimate how difficult seemingly simple tasks can be for the majority of users.


Flashing eproms? I have no idea what you were trying to do, what equipment you were working with or how old it may be but every network I've secured has been as simple as logging into the router's webpage, setting the security and choosing a key (password).

BTW, think about this. If someone in your neighborhood connects to your open network and uses it to do something illegal, like child porn, guess who it'll be traced back to? Don't think it can't happen. There are people that drive around looking for unsecured networks. They call it War Driving.

I live in New York City. Nothing bad has ever happened to us in the 7 years I've been here but I'm not naive enough to think nothing ever will so I can let my guard down. Crime happens EVERYWHERE. I grew up in a lazy suburban town on a dead end street where everyone knew each other. Yet I woke up one morning to man coming through my window with a knife in his hand. Several years before that I was assaulted in my living room by a person I considered a friend. Crime happens even in the most utopian settings.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, 

I'm locking this thread.  Your points have been made concerning use of Wireless Networks and there is literally nothing more to be said.  

Coyote, the last part of your post moved across the line into a personal attack and I've removed it for being against forum decorum, and accordingly, NYC's response to that part of your post.  NYCKindleFan, I apologize for not removing the offending portion when I moved the thread; I hadn't read Coyote's post closely enough late last night.

Betsy


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