# I guess I'm just not good...:(



## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi,

I've been a self-published author for almost a year, but no matter what I do, I don't seem to be "taking off." I listened to the advice of the members here and just wrote and wrote and wrote. I have four books published now and none of them are doing well. I know my covers are not very professional-looking. For reasons I won't go into now, I can't hire a designer. I work on my covers and show them to friends who have knowledge and experience in design, and they help me improve them. People have told me that they love my covers, so I assume at least a handful of people will like my covers enough to by my books. A lot of people add my books to their TBR lists on GR, but those don't translate into sales. I show my blurbs to a few writer friends who help me improve them, and as far as I know, they're okay. I put my books up on almost all the free sites out there (again, I can't pay for paid promotions). I promote on Facebook and twitter and on GR, but again, nothing. One of my books used to sell decent (decent for me anyway ), and for some reason sales just stopped. I thought--and hoped--it was the summer slump that everyone talks about, but nope...I have a sequel coming out in a few weeks, but I'm not excited about it. I'm just like, meh...whatever. And I don't want to feel that way! I guess my question is, maybe the reason I'm not selling well is because I'm just not good? Is there anything else I can do?

Another thing is that I'm extremely shy and a private person, so I'm not very good at "selling myself" and I don't like to talk about myself or my life. For that reason I don't have a blog...Do blogs help that much?

Thanks for reading


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

I sympathise completely as I often feel the same way. I, too, have many of the same limitations. I don't blog because I simply don't have the time: fitting writing around full-time job, family, etc, etc. 

But hang in there. Something amazing happened to me out of the blue when I was approached by a publisher (small, independent, but genuine) and I have my first novel coming out at Christmas that has a professional cover, will be available pretty much everywhere as paperback and e-book, and will be marketed by someone other than just me (and, boy, am I rubbish at that). 

So keep writing. You never know, something amazing may happen to you, too. It could be your next book; it could be one that you've already published that suddenly finds its audience. Keep your chin up and keep going.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

Heya Dee, I like your covers. I wouldn't worry too much about them (then again, I'm a firm believer that anyone who thinks the cover of a book has a single ounce of correlation to what is contained within the words inside has taken a very hard blow to the cranium with a heavy hammer). 

I always hate giving advice because most advice is absolutely worthless to the individual receiving it (other than 'hey, give me the keys, you are too drunk to drive.'). But in this case...keep writing. Blogs can help, and you don't even have to talk about your life in a personal manner. I tend to blog about things I like (I like to praise Hugh Howey, and I also like to besmirch his name as well). I've written movie reviews (I hated Avatar so much I gave it 9 pages of angry ranting). I talk about writing stuff. I write anti-bullying bits, and 'it gets better' anti-LGBT bits. I write whatever I want basically. 

So my advice I guess...is no advice. Other than just keep writing. Joe Konrath is possibly the most correct person in this forum and on the internet when he says a lot of it is luck. Well, luck combined with having a good book that readers want to read. Sometimes it takes a year. It took him something like a decade or almost a decade (and he was a traditionally published author as well). 

But I do like the covers.


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## SarahCarter (Nov 8, 2012)

I just wanted to say that I'm in a similar position. I don't have any income at the moment to spend on covers and expensive promos. So you're not alone!

Hope things pick up with this new release of yours.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

I don't think it's that you're not good or that your covers suck.  They seem fine to me and other than the book that I looked at being written in present tense, I didn't really see anything wrong with it (the youngun's don't seem to mind the present tense thing so that's probably fine too).

But you may just not have realistic expectations.  For example, you've got a Book I.  A lot of people won't pick up Book I in something until there's a Book III.  They don't want to be stranded if you never get around to finishing it.  Yes, you've got 4 books up, but near as can tell, they've got nothing to do with each other so you don't have the draw from one to the next that often helps a book along.

So, it might be a few years before there's some cohesion between your current series and enough of the stand alones to garner a real following.  Things like Twitter bursts and Facebook ads are probably not going to be productive because you need to be specific about who your customer is.  Just having 1000 people hear that you have a book out (even a good one) means nothing if those 1000 people aren't the ones that are going to read your book anyway.

It doesn't look like any of your books are in Select.  The might have been a good path to get your book in front of a lot of people who might otherwise actually read it, but if your books are out all over the place, it is really hard to back up and change course.  So, when your Book II comes out, a .99 special on Book I (and maybe even on Book II) might be a good strategy as well.  Building a mailing list is a good idea and giving some thought to where and how you can market to your specific target audience is probably a good idea too (maybe BookBub or something).  But again, you have to use that strategically, like when a new book comes out, not just hit and miss.  There are Goodreads giveaways for paper books and Goodreads groups to solicit reviews as well.

If you're expecting to be the next Hunger Games, that probably won't happen, but if you have a 5 and 10 year mindset, you may actually get to quitting the day job money if you keep pumping these books out with a little focus that fills in the library in a cohesive way over time.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Hang in there.  I just glanced at a sample of your book.  You are a good writer.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

I have been doing this for over a year, and I'm still not making a living. It happens. You just have to keep at it if it's something you really want.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Don't give up, keep writing.

But like others have said, just because you put books out don't mean they are going to sell like magic.

Long series sell better than stand alones or short series.  Certain genres sell better than others. It's all cyclic as well.

Select can certainly help jump start a series.

Put more books out.  

I have been doing this for more than 2 years, and I have 20 books out.  And I still haven't 'made it' in my mind.  I make a simple living, but not anywhere near some of the explosive careers I've seen happen to people on here.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

*Sam Kates*, thanks so much for your words and I'm so happy for your success! I wish you lots of luck! 

*AngryGames*, thanks for the compliments on my covers. It's good to know that's not the "problem" because it's something I really stress about. And your advice is very good and much appreciated . The only thing I can do is write and write and hope that everything will work out.

*SarahCarter*, thanks . I hope things go well for you, too.

*AndreSanThomas*, thanks for the advice . My books are in select, and I have done a few promos, and they did help, but not as much anymore. I don't have high expectations at all--all I want is at least a sale a day (heck, maybe a sale a week from each book). And I see what you're saying about not having a specific audience. I originally planned to have my sequel published in May/June, but I had to do an entire revision which took a lot of time (but so worth it!). But I will definitely keep writing. Thanks 

*cinisajoy*, thank you so much 

*David Scroggins*, thanks, I will 

*Vivi_Anna *, thanks. I won't give up 

Thanks for all the support, everyone . It makes me feel better knowing I'm not doing anything "wrong." It's just reality


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## ElisaBlaisdell (Jun 3, 2012)

Keep your chin up! Publish another four books this year.


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## Steamdave (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm in much the same situation you describe.
I do not have a budget for artwork or other professional services.
In this sense, I was lucky enough to chance upon a community of like-minded individuals, and we basically support each other by trading favors - I'll do beta-reading for my current copy-editor, she will also copy-edit for the guy that' s designing her covers, etc.
We are just one big dysfunctional family  

Anyway - your covers look fine to me (I like the snake)
Just do not give up.
Keep writing, keep publishing, keep improving.
Building a back-catalog is important.

As for blogging - it might help, but it's not magic.
Readers are likelier to check out your books if you offer them something about you.
I understand the part about being a private person - and I'd use that as the basis for a small-scale, "slow" blog (say, one post per week).
In other words, I'd blog about being a private person, and yet having to "sell myself" to sell my books.
It's the sort of topic that might attract readers, and that might help you get some visibility.
Just an idea, of course.
But first of all, don't give up!


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

I personally don't anticipate any significant sales until I have 15-20 books...most of them in one series or another.


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## ER Pierce (Jun 4, 2013)

hugs


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Dee J. Stone said:


> *Sam Kates*, thanks so much for your words and I'm so happy for your success! I wish you lots of luck!


Dee - right back at you! I forgot to say that I, too, like your covers.


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

You're not good, you're wonderful. 

Come here, I'm gonna write it on your forehead backwards in permanent marker so whenever you look in the mirror, you'll be reminded. (I'm not allowed sharp objects, otherwise I'd tattoo it.)

Now go out there, and kick some writing butt!


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## Book Master (May 3, 2013)

Hi Dee,

Fustration shows in your post but you need to stay positive and focused on what is going great for you!
For one, you have several books out now!
Second, the covers look great already!
Third, you already have time building in your craft but it does take more time to get to where you see yourself being.
Fourth, keep writing! You mentioned another book coming out, afterwards, start number six.

You have a great start, an awesome name as an Author! If you can get a series going from maybe one book already published, it can be a building block to more success.

I have to repeat this,
Good Books plus Good Packaging plus Good Marketing makes Great Results!

Target your books to Readers by using all media outlets , make them an offer that they can't refuse by pricing strategies. 
You say you have no money for advertising?
Find free ways to get your name and books out there. Many sites offer guest blogging. Learn how to do Press Releases on your books. Build a Facebook Page for each book and link them with your website so readers can find you.

You are an Author now! You're in the self-publishing business now so forget the shyness and be bold! Learn all you can about marketing your books  ecause its a business and you are the one in control!

Keep the Faith & Believe in Yourself!

BM


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

I actually like your covers just fine.  They're not as fancy as some, but they're definitely not poor quality.  The typography could be larger on the one, but it's not a deal-breaker type of thing.

You have mostly good reviews for your books, too, so I doubt your skill just isn't there yet.

Like others have pointed out, your books do lack cohesion and you've got the start to a series without a follow-up book.  I do know how frustrating it can be to write a series and REALLY want to move onto something else, but it's always best to stick with the series until it's complete.  It's one of the best ways to generate fans who will get excited about your work and stay excited, and tell all their friends.

When I first published The Sekhmet Bed (my first book) it took around a year for things to start to take off, too...and they only took off a little bit.  One or two reviews would trickle in here and there...the most money I made in a single month that first year was $200, and there were months when I made $0.  But once I made it clear that there would be more books in the series, and then actually put out that next book, things really took off for me.  The second book in the series sells more copies and gets higher ratings than the first -- it is the book that "caught on" for me.  Sometimes it's the first book you write that finds your real, enthusiastic audience.  Sometimes it's the second.  Sometimes it's the tenth.  The best way to take off truly is to think long-term and WRITE MORE BOOKS, even though you know this one you're about to publish may not be a big deal (yet)...and the one after might not, either.  It can be discouraging, but you have to look at it this way: you're a good writer, based on your reviews.  You're probably a better writer than a lot of trad-pubbed authors I've read who have inexplicably huge followings!  Your time will come, sooner or later.  The more books you write, the closer to inevitable success you will come, because sooner or later, one of them will catch on...and then you'll have TONS of backlist for all those eager readers to buy, and that means financial success for you.

Promoting on GR and blogs and whatnot can help, yes.  In my experience, though, continuing to write the very best books you possibly can will do much more for your current books than any other effort you can make (that is, until you are earning enough to buy ads in the most effective spots...that does help, but it's best paired with a book that's already somewhat successful on its own, anyway.)

Hang in there!  Write more!  You're doing great -- you're about where I was after one year.  Only I was dumb and only put out one book!  If I had four out back then, I'd probably be writing full-time by now, because once that catch-on book happened, I'd have quadruple the backlist for my readers to find!


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

It's tough. I would never, ever say that any part of publishing or writing is easy. Do it for love or do it for money, but don't do it for nothing. :-D

also: *hugs*


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been at it a number of years now with no success, so I know how you feel.  There are a lot of factors involved in getting noticed, a big one being luck.  All you can do is keeping plugging away.  Your books aren't going to go out of print., which helps.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Hugs.

Look, all writers feel this way from time to time, no matter how successful they are. Even Hugh Howey probably has days where he's like, "Why oh why don't the Molly Fyde stories sell like the Wool stories?" 

We all question ourselves. We all question our talent. We all feel like giving up.

There's always someone out there more successful than you, no matter how successful you are. And there's always a bunch of people out there who are way less successful than you. Right now, there is someone reading your post thinking, "Man, I can't even finish writing this freaking book. I only wish I had four books finished and published!" 

So, the good news is that you are normal.

The bad news is that you will feel like this again at some point.

If you're a writer, you'll keep writing anyway. If you aren't, you'll find something else to do, and it will make you immeasurably happy, the way writing never could. Either way, good things WILL happen. Good luck.


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

It looks as though you do have some lovely reviews. You've definitely connected with some readers - I say keep writing more books!


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

A year is nothing. 18 months in and I'm still not breaking even. Yeah, so some people start making a fortune right away, but for the rest of us you have to set five/seven/ten year plans for continual growth. Keep writing, keep expanding your backlist, and keep learning. That's my advice.


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## Michael Buckley (Jun 24, 2013)

I wish there was a magic word I could say and make everyone's books sell. It's especially hard this time of year when you have kids and they will not have toys for Christmas if your books do not sell. If we fail, we learn. It's difficult to know exactly what type of book the reader will take and run with. I had a short burst of sales a while back and it felt good. It will not pay the bills, but I know now I have it inside of me, the ability to write books people like or people hate, either way the books get downloaded. My perma free is in the top 100 and has been for a while. My paid book use to be. Keep writing and sooner or later you will find that special book that people need to read.

Most of us are doing nothing in terms of sales, we all hope to make it one day and to be successful. To give up is to fail. To continue to write with no sales is not failure, just write something else until someone likes or notices what you write.

My feeling on this and the burst of sales I had are this. My sales continued for a few months because I put the sequel out there, when the first book sales slowed down the sequel kept the rating at a nice level. My book was rated  something like 3,900 and stayed under 10,000 for a long time. The sequel made the difference without it I would have lost a lot of sales.
It's just a two book series, I feel the key is three to four book series with the first book being a perma free. The series for the most part outsell everything else. When you click on peoples book you will see the ratings. My stand alones are 1,000,000 plus my series which has stopped seilling still manages to stay in the 100,000 range and sell a book here and there.

Go four book series or at least three an increase your chances. The beauty of the series is when one book fails you still have two or three books working together to help get sales, when one book sells all your books have a chance to get re-noticed again.


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## OwenBaillie (Sep 19, 2013)

Don't throw it in.  Whilst the covers did not grab me, I looked inside your books and there is nothing wrong with your writing.  I read a lot of samples.  Yours was punchy and kept me engaged.

You've already received lots of good advice I see.  Perhaps to get more people reading your stuff, you could lower the price on book one, or give it away.  In the scheme of growing your career, giving away some books is worthwhile.

Best of luck, and I'll be watching for your update telling us all how well you are going and that you didn't give up


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## Michael Buckley (Jun 24, 2013)

OwenBaillie said:


> Don't throw it in. Whilst the covers did not grab me, I looked inside your books and there is nothing wrong with your writing. I read a lot of samples. Yours was punchy and kept me engaged.
> 
> You've already received lots of good advice I see. Perhaps to get more people reading your stuff, you could lower the price on book one, or give it away. In the scheme of growing your career, giving away some books is worthwhile.
> 
> Best of luck, and I'll be watching for your update telling us all how well you are going and that you didn't give up


I agree with OwenBaillie. The important part I did miss is this, even if your books s*ck to 90 percent of the readers out there. If you have a perma free book or two you will catch the other 10 percent who love your books. Mailing lists are slow and take time to get subscribers but over time the perma free will build you a fan base where people want to buy your books. The perma free I have now helps my slaes "zero" I am getting new subscribers for my mailing list that I never had before, not many but a few. Now over time that list gets bigger. Soon your fans start talking and before long you no longer have 90 percent who do not like your work. your fans converted 5 percent and now you have 15 percent who love your work. Now a perma free as the first book in a series can put money in your pocket.

I am sure your books are great, I was just giving an example. There are people out there who will love your stuff, you just have to find ways to let them know you exist.

Check out my book reviews, if i can have a few fans, anyone can


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks, everyone . For anyone who's amazed that I published four books--it's not that amazing. My sister is my co-writer so we publish them a bit faster than others. And I wrote three of them years ago and have just fixed them up and published. I'm amazed at everyone else! 

*ElisaBlaisdell*, thanks. The plan for 2014 is 4-5 books 

*Steamdave*, thanks for the advice and thanks for the compliments on my snake cover 

*Deke*, I wish you a lot of success before you get to the 15-20 

*ER Pierce*, thanks! Right back at ya 

*Catherine Gardiner*, thanks so much 

*SBright*, lol, you're so funny! Thanks 

*Book Master*, thanks so much for all the advice and the compliments!

*ElHawk*, thanks! 

*Mimi, aka Dalya*, thanks and hugs back 

*A. S. Warwick*, thanks and I wish you lots and lots of success!

*valeriec80*, thanks. I've felt like this way too many times, but I always pick myself up and keep on writing 

*AgnesWebb*, thanks!

*ChrisWard*, thanks for the advice 

*Michael Buckley*, thanks. The plan is to write sequels to ALL my books. I know having the first in the series perma free is what works best, but it's so hard to for me to put my first in my superhero perma free because I know the sequels don't match up. But I will see what's best when I get there 

*OwenBaillie*, thanks for being honest regarding my covers . I know they won't grab everyone. Thanks so much for your compliments on my writing.

I hope I didn't miss anyone. I really appreciate all the support and encouragement


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

4 books in a year? Great Reviews, and decent covers? Man, you are kicking i! 

Personally I have a full time job. I am in Grad School. I direct cameras at my church. I teach a class once a week (Fridays actually). I have 3 blogs. I have a wife, and a son, and a dog. I run severs for other small businesses in addition to my day job. I think you get the point, I understand busy! I am pushing 1 book every 9-12 months. I cheated and released an Omnibus so that one came out a bit faster, but in 3 years I have four books. I am aiming to release my fifth book in December. All that to say, I get your issue. I am still working my day job... so yeah. I am making enough to pay for cover art and editors now at least. 

As others have said, you books are to scattered. Its like you only have one book out, because they do not drive each other. Focus on your series for a little while. Consider making book 1 in that series free (esply once you have book 3 and 4? out.) 

Stick in there! You can do it!


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I think what most folks have said already cover it, but I'll just put in my own perspective:

1.) A year and four books is barely starting.  It can help you decide if you enjoy the work, and if you want to adjust your pace, or try something different, but it's nothing to judge your success from.

2.) Different books and different writers have different audiences.  Some audiences are smaller than others.  And some audiences are slower to reach than others.  And because of that...

3.) Some careers are like hitting the lottery.  Some are like getting a job. But an awful lot are like buying a savings bond.  A bunch of effort up front that nets a steady but unexciting trickle for a long time.

IMHO, if you want to assess something, assess what you want to do under the current circumstances.  Okay you didn't set the world on fire.  You might later, but you don't know.  Do you like what you've done?  Do you want to keep it up, or were you only doing as much as you did with the idea of greater success?

Your work is reaching readers.  You have made the story in your head real.  Do you want to keep doing that?

Camille


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## Vivienne Mathews (May 7, 2013)

VydorScope said:


> 4 books in a year? Great Reviews, and decent covers? Man, you are kicking i!


Hear, hear!

Like many have already said, we shy folk understand your position all too well. As an _extreme _introvert, the idea of marketing myself is a bit like licking my own elbow. Gross and implausible. So rather than using my blog for marketing, I use it for the much more natural purpose of just being nice. I can't say that it's doing anything for sales, but at least I get to meet a fair number of wonderful people, which is a payoff in and of itself. 

Hang in there! Your works have all the time in the world to find their audience!


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

*VydorScope*, thanks so much! 

*daringnovelist*, hell, yeah I love writing. Or else I wouldn't put so much hard work into my books 

*M.H. Lee*, thanks for the advice 

*Vivienne Mathews*, thanks


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## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

I read one of your samples, and I like your writing. You shouldn't think your writing is bad because that's just not true.

I could echo all the series stuff everyone is saying, and I will, but in another way...

If you want something you can do today, then take one of your books that is 40-50,000 or more (sorry, I've not looked that closely at what you have,) and unpublish it and then break it into maybe 4 or 5 parts, do the covers for them. Then re-publish. You _will_ see more sales. I did this is another genre I write in (non-romance/erotic.) It works.

And yes, people will tell you customers don't like it, but the sales figures always suggest they do _accept_ it.

Or you could write more series, but this will take time and it really seems like you need a game changer now, at least for a moral boost.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

For your next series, you might consider writing the whole thing before publishing any of it. That way, you can make the first one permafree right away with the next books in the series already available.

In the mean time, throw out a few short stories or novelettes while you're writing the series to keep readers interested.

I never publish a series until I've got the whole thing written, but that's because I have no confidence that I have even one more book in me. But doing it that way has the added advantage of knowing I've got a bunch of books waiting in the wings so I can relax and enjoy my paranoia while I write the next series.

Good luck and hang in there.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks for the advice, AnitaDobs and Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Dee J. Stone said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been a self-published author for almost a year, but no matter what I do, I don't seem to be "taking off." I listened to the advice of the members here and just wrote and wrote and wrote. I have four books published now and none of them are doing well. I know my covers are not very professional-looking. For reasons I won't go into now, I can't hire a designer. I work on my covers and show them to friends who have knowledge and experience in design, and they help me improve them. People have told me they that love my covers, so I assume at least a handful of people will like my covers enough to by my books. A lot of people add my books to their TBR lists on GR, but those don't translate into sales. I show my blurbs to a few writer friends who help me improve them, and as far as I know, they're okay. I put my books up on almost all the free sites out there (again, I can't pay for paid promotions). I promote on Facebook and twitter and on GR, but again, nothing. One of my books used to sell decent (decent for me anyway ), and for some reason sales just stopped. I thought--and hoped--it was the summer slump that everyone talks about, but nope...I have a sequel coming out in a few weeks, but I'm not excited about it. I'm just like, meh...whatever. And I don't want to feel that way! I guess my question is, maybe the reason I'm not selling well is because I'm just not good? Is there anything else I can do?
> 
> ...


It isn't unusual for it to take more than four novels for things to "take off". I know that's discouraging but it doesn't mean you're not good or that it won't happen. Don't give up on that sequel. It may be the one that does it. 

If not that one the one after. It takes a LOT of persistence to make it in this business.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks, JRTomlin


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## trublue (Jul 7, 2012)

Hugs.


Try KDP for now. It's good to start off with.


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

The covers are fine and others are complimenting you on your writing. I haven't read your work, but judging by your post, I'd say you write well.

I'm a reviewer for NYJB and read tons of books, yet I see many of some really great ones with surprisingly low rankings, which means lots of terrific authors have slow sales, at least some of the time anyway. I believe luck and timing play a huge part in success. If you love writing, keep at it. Be excited about your work, especially your new sequel. If you're not excited about it, that will come across in your communications and others won't be either. One of my fav quotes is: _The path to success is littered with the bodies of those gave up._

Wishing you lots of luck with that new release.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

I so, so feel your pain. I am in the worst sales slump of my publishing career--it's horrible, and it doesn't help that I've been sick/recovering from surgery about a third of the year so far--and it does make you want to give up. Keep writing.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Which one of your books was doing best for you?  What's your own best explanation as to why sales dropped?


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

If you want specific feedback on "why these books aren't selling", then I'm happy to give that to you.  But before I do that, I want to be sure you actually want to hear it.  You're jumping to the conclusion that you're not any good, but in my opinion, before you go there, you should be addressing other issues.  Just let me know if you want to know what I think about why your books aren't selling.

I also notice that your pen name is a pseudonym for two people writing together.  What is your writing partner saying about sales, and what is your writing partner doing to help promote the books?


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## Vivienne Mathews (May 7, 2013)

MeiLinMiranda said:


> ... it doesn't help that I've been sick/recovering from surgery about a third of the year so far.


OT, but I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in your recovery. *Hugs!*


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

Deke said:


> I personally don't anticipate any significant sales until I have 15-20 books...most of them in one series or another.


I agree.

After getting depressed and almost giving up, I now have 6 titles out (in English, and they'll all come out in German, Spanish and Japanese, maybe even Russian), and the sales are starting to pick up. My blog hit 1,000 page views per day for the first time last Saturday. I almost cried with joy, because a few months ago I wanted to delete it. It's interesting to see the progress since April, the royalties are literally higher every month like on one of those cartoonish corporate sales charts.

It's a long-term business. Bar luck, total brilliance, or large budgets, it's a long-term, steady-growth, promo-driven business.

Never let yourself get negative, Dee, and good things will come. Seriously. I believe that the things ALWAYS get worse before they get BETTER.

My own inspiration is H.M. Ward, one of the most hard-working and optimistic authors in existence. She also sells well.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Deke said:


> I personally don't anticipate any significant sales until I have 15-20 books...most of them in one series or another.


Agree with this!
While there is the occasional meteoric rise, the marathon you're in requires books; a lot of books. Each one pulling in more and more readers, introducing them to your other books.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

*trublue*, thanks. I'm already in Select 

*JFHilborne*, thanks. I am excited about publishing my sequel, just really nervous readers won't like it. But I know a lot of writers feel the same 

*MeiLinMiranda*, I'm so sorry . I hope you feel better soon and that your sales pick up 

*theblether*, my superhero novel (YA) was selling the best. Not a lot, but I was happy with it. It's sold like that for the first few months, then slowly got less and less. I did four free promos, and the first two helped. But still, four in five months is a bit much, and I shouldn't have had a need to do that (at least, I don't think?). But they did help. The only explanations I can come up with is that: 1) The sequel took a little longer than I anticipated (had to do a major revision), and I published other books and not the sequel, which maybe pissed off some people? I honestly didn't think anyone was waiting for it, because I hadn't gotten any feedback. I hope to publish it within the next two weeks, so we'll see what happens then. 2) More books of the same genre have been published, and while others seem to hit it big and take off, mine keeps getting pushed back farther and farther. Maybe it's the present POV, maybe the cover. I don't know. But if a reader were to browse through the superhero category, there are A LOT to choose from, and mine is probably nearly impossible to find .

*ellecasey*, thanks. If you're going to address my book covers or blurbs, I'd rather not hear. But if it's something else, I'd like to hear. Maybe I can fix it...?

*Austin_Briggs*, wow congrats! I'm really glad you didn't give up! 

*Brian Spangler*, I will try to write and publish as many as I can


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Dee J. Stone said:


> *ellecasey*, thanks. If you're going to address my book covers or blurbs, I'd rather not hear. But if it's something else, I'd like to hear. Maybe I can fix it...?


I'm going to take that as a no. When and if you're ever ready for real, honest and hopefully helpful feedback about why you're not selling more books or how you could sell more books, feel free to reach out to me.


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Brian Spangler said:


> Agree with this!
> While there is the occasional meteoric rise, the marathon you're in requires books; a lot of books. Each one pulling in more and more readers, introducing them to your other books.


I wish this was true. 
Unfortunately, for some of us, the more books we publish, the fewer readers we get. My sales have dropped to almost nothing and with each new book I get out there, the fewer sales I get during the first month and even less in subsequent months. I've tried everything: promos (free and paid), social networking, blog tours, ads, revamping blurbs, redoing covers (multiple times), changing categories, changing titles, you name it and I've tried it.

But...I've finally decided I'm just going to keep on going. I'm a writer and I write, even if I have no readers or literally drive readers away. "Once you read one Amy Corwin, you'll never read another!" I write and produce the best written, best edited, best books I can.

If nothing else, it's an accomplishment I can talk about in my holiday greetings letter each year. 

So look on the bright side--you're probably doing better than I am and things will get better for you. As far as I know, I have a singular achievement: I'm the only author on earth who has, over time, driven more readers away and made LESS with each book. LOL Not bad, eh? At least I'm the best at something.


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## ChadWilliamson (May 31, 2011)

Little I can add here, Dee, that hasn't already been said, and better than I could anyway, except to not give up!

For those of us who still haven't pulled the trigger on our first book, we're looking to ALL of the folks on the KB for inspiration. We're all plugging away at this incredible dream, and that's the key, to keep plugging away. Someone said that it's almost a numbers game, that the more you have out there, the better it is, so definitely DON'T give up and definitely DO keep writing, keep publishing, keep pushing, keep dreaming, keep believing in yourself.


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## Buttonman88 (Apr 11, 2013)

Dee J. Stone said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been a self-published author for almost a year, but no matter what I do, I don't seem to be "taking off." I listened to the advice of the members here and just wrote and wrote and wrote. I have four books published now and none of them are doing well. I know my covers are not very professional-looking. For reasons I won't go into now, I can't hire a designer. I work on my covers and show them to friends who have knowledge and experience in design, and they help me improve them. People have told me that they love my covers, so I assume at least a handful of people will like my covers enough to by my books. A lot of people add my books to their TBR lists on GR, but those don't translate into sales. I show my blurbs to a few writer friends who help me improve them, and as far as I know, they're okay. I put my books up on almost all the free sites out there (again, I can't pay for paid promotions). I promote on Facebook and twitter and on GR, but again, nothing. One of my books used to sell decent (decent for me anyway ), and for some reason sales just stopped. I thought--and hoped--it was the summer slump that everyone talks about, but nope...I have a sequel coming out in a few weeks, but I'm not excited about it. I'm just like, meh...whatever. And I don't want to feel that way! I guess my question is, maybe the reason I'm not selling well is because I'm just not good? Is there anything else I can do?
> 
> ...


Dee.

Your statement is exactly what I've experienced and how I feel. I understand how it can lead to self-doubt creeping in and undermining your future enthusiasm. Keep believing in your own work! Keep writing. Keep promoting. Good things will surely follow.

Best of luck
Mike


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## Michael_J_Sullivan (Aug 3, 2011)

So the most important thing is...don't give up writing. I have no idea if your current books are good or not, but I know mine were terrible early on and I just kept working at improvement and they did get better.

Now for some really unconventional advice...it may be that you should go traditional.  Hear me out.  I fell that if you want to be successful self-publishing you have to produce books that stand toe-to-toe with those coming out from New York.  That's not easy when it's just you, especially if your resources are limited. So in many ways I think it would be better to give up some of your profit, and let someone else foot the bill for some of your books. It doesn't mean you can't return to self-publishing with other projects. But you may be armed with advance money that would allow you to hire the level of professionals that they use. I know telling someone to stop self and move to traditional might sound nuts, but it might just be crazy enough to work. ;-)


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Amy Corwin said:


> I wish this was true.
> Unfortunately, for some of us, the more books we publish, the fewer readers we get. My sales have dropped to almost nothing and with each new book I get out there, the fewer sales I get during the first month and even less in subsequent months. I've tried everything: promos (free and paid), social networking, blog tours, ads, revamping blurbs, redoing covers (multiple times), changing categories, changing titles, you name it and I've tried it.
> 
> But...I've finally decided I'm just going to keep on going. I'm a writer and I write, even if I have no readers or literally drive readers away. "Once you read one Amy Corwin, you'll never read another!" I write and produce the best written, best edited, best books I can.
> ...


Amy, I would sync up the covers of your books and get a direct sequel to The Unwanted Heiress book - the blurb and cover look fantastic!


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## TiffanyNicole (Jul 28, 2013)

Keep writing! I know it gets very discouraging at times, you might find yourself asking why is it happening for others, but not for me. Put your work out and then focus on your next project. You never know what might catch on.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

*ellecasey*, thanks anyway 

*Amy Corwin*, lol, thanks for that. I hope your sales pick up! 

*ChadWilliamson*, thanks 

*Buttonman88*, thanks so much 

*Michael_J_Sullivan*, thanks for the advice. It's actually the opposite--I have been writing for quite a few years and have always wanted to get published. But for many reasons, I did NOT want to go to a traditional publisher, and may times, I stopped writing because of that. Then I heard about self-publishing, and I thought that was perfect for me. I'm not writing because I think self-publishers make it big and make tons of money. Not at all. I just want to write books and have people read them and love them, and publish them in the way that's most comfortable for me.

*TiffanyNicole*, thanks


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

Frankly I'd take Ella Casey up on her offer of a critique. If I thought she'd be willing to critique my current WIP I'd jump on it.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

beccaprice said:


> Frankly I'd take Ella Casey up on her offer of a critique. If I thought she'd be willing to critique my current WIP I'd jump on it.


Ditto


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

vrabinec said:


> Ditto


Double ditto. One shouldn't be so quick to dismiss such a cool offer.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I don't have time to read through the replies, but I want to throw in my 2c even though I'm sure you've already gotten some great feedback. Are your books standalones? From what I can tell just based on the covers in your signature, they don't look like they're related in any way.

I've been at this almost a year and all, except one, of my books are from the same series. As much as some people love my series, there's very little cross-over to my standalone. I see more consistent sales with each new release within my series. My latest release, which is perma-free and also the 4th release in the series, has made the largest impact so far.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

I hope I don't come off as a jerk or unappreciative, and I'm sorry if I do:

I do appreciate that she offered to give me honest and real feedback, so thanks, Elle Casey. I don't want to have to defend myself, but I did ask her if her advice would be regarding my covers, and she told me yes (as far as I understood). As I said in my OP, I know my covers are not professional, and I'm okay with that at this point. I don't see a point in having to talk about them when I will not be changing them (at least not anytime soon). Now, if she were to address issues I can fix, I am totally open to hearing those.

*Stacy Claflin*, at this point they are all standalones and I plan to make a series out of a few. One sequel is coming out in two weeks. Thanks


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## Buttonman88 (Apr 11, 2013)

Dee J. Stone said:


> As I said in my OP, I know my covers are not professional, and I'm okay with that at this point. I don't see a point in having to talk about them when I will not be changing them (at least not anytime soon). Now, if she were to address issues I can fix, I am totally open to hearing those.


Dee.

Getting an offer of a critique from anyone is the proverbial 'gift horse'. Getting an offer of a critique from a successful indie author is like having Seabiscuit give kiddie rides at your child's birthday party (no comparison beyond the analogy intended, Elle  )

Your OP speaks to how you link poor sales to your feelings of your work lacking merit, Dee. In my (unsuccessful) experience, improving book sales is about the holistic approach: content, blurb, cover, marketing etc. If your covers were deemed to be a major cause of the poor sales then won't retaining them - for whatever your reasons are - merely maintain the status quo of poor sales and therefore maintain this low literary self-esteem you have? Isn't it worth at least exploring all aspects of your brand? I would suggest you take up Elle on her kind offer without pre-condition, let her run the rule over everything she wants and then you decide how to act upon in (or not) as you see fit.

Nothing ventured, and all....

Mike


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Double ditto. One shouldn't be so quick to dismiss such a cool offer.


Triple ditto. If Elle Casey offered to critique the next book I wrote, I'd be tripping over myself to write it in record time!


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

Dee, not wanting to hear feedback about blurbs and covers puzzles me. I haven't read your samples but others here have and say they're good. Blurbs and covers are the easiest things to change. Needing them changed has no bearing on the work inside the book, no bearing on your competency as a blurb writer and/or cover artist, and everything to do with luring people in.

It IS possible to change covers and blurbs for free. We workshop blurbs for each other here at kboards all the time, it's how I get mine into some semblance of order. And as for covers, if you're doing them yourself there are still ways to make your books look more related thematically and ways to clean up proportion and typography that cost you nothing but time.

You told Michael J. Sullivan you didn't want to go trad for reasons of your own. That's fine, me too, but if you're going to stay indie, you must be willing to spend serious time on blurbs and covers. If not, you're not going to find the readership you so much want--that we all want--and there's not much we can do for you besides a pat on the hand and a "keep writing."

Cripes, I wish someone could offer ME more than a pat on the hand and a "keep writing!"


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

The majority of the books I see not selling well have NOTHING to do with the skill of the writer. Please understand and internalize that. That's a sucky feeling and we've all gone through that before. Books are like most other luxury items in that their success is 25% content of the item itself and 75% how they are marketed. I've mentored a few writers (in the romance genre only) and most of the time blurb and cover are the areas that need to be addressed.

I understand from your previous responses that you are not ready to deal with these things yet which is fine. Just so you know, having to address these issues is something most writers deal with. It's not just you. It takes time to get it right. I changed the cover on the first novella about 5 times before getting the right look for my series.

Notice I said "for my series". The covers I had before were not _bad_ covers. Plenty of people liked them. However, they weren't doing what I needed them to do: instantly create brand awareness in my reader's minds so they could tell exactly what I'm selling in one glance. Now that all my covers carry a cohesive look, the series is selling well. Readers know when they see my cover design that they are getting an M. Malone story.

It was hard to change covers that I personally loved but this is business. Once I was able to separate my personal feelings from the equation, it was easier but that's something that comes with time and experience as well.

Hang in there


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Dee J. Stone said:


> I hope I don't come off as a jerk or unappreciative, and I'm sorry if I do:
> 
> I do appreciate that she offered to give me honest and real feedback, so thanks, Elle Casey. I don't want to have to defend myself, but I did ask her if her advice would be regarding my covers, and she told me yes (as far as I understood). As I said in my OP, I know my covers are not professional, and I'm okay with that at this point. I don't see a point in having to talk about them when I will not be changing them (at least not anytime soon). Now, if she were to address issues I can fix, I am totally open to hearing those.
> 
> *Stacy Claflin*, at this point they are all standalones and I plan to make a series out of a few. One sequel is coming out in two weeks. Thanks


I read it as she offered to look at your books in the whole. Now I am not an author but if Miss ElleCasey offered to look at my books and let me know what I could do to sell books, I would take her up in a heartbeat. 
I am also gonna guess that you have no clue who she is. I think last time I looked she has only sold 1.5 MILLION books. I may be slightly off on that figure.
Someone please let me know.
Good luck in your writing.


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## Rob Lopez (Jun 19, 2012)

Dee; first, a thank you for starting this thread, because the advice everyone has given so far is pure gold. I'm in exactly the same situation as you, except a few rungs lower down the ladder. I can't give you any further advice, because I know absolutely nothing, but I hope you're learning as much from this thread as I am.

Your covers and blurbs are okay - not pro, but not terrible either, but I'm guessing you already know that. I'm in the same boat when it comes to covers, because I'm flat broke, and I also can't bear the thought that, after all the effort I put into them, that I might have to change them again. And again. But, thanks to the wisdom expressed here, I'm coming round to the realisation that someday I will - because I have to. The packaging, the impression that a reader will get glimpsing them on Amazon... these things make all the difference. I'm already reworking my blurbs and rethinking - again - about what this series _is_ and how I should present it.

It's like that thing where you do a piece of work and, at the point of finishing, you think it's amazing, then, after a few weeks, you think that, actually, it's not bad, then, after months or years, you look back and despair. That may be what brought you to write this post in the first place.

It's not that it's bad though. It's just that, with time, we get better (even in a week!) and looking back we see the flaws that could have been done better. But it's easy to take that badly and to feel really down about it (I do all the time), which is why posts like these are so good.

Not just good. Necessary.

Regarding Elle's offer and saying thanks awfully but really I'm fine...
I get the shyness thing. I get the fear of imposition, of feeling obligated to do something once someone makes an effort in your direction. I get the feeling that you _owe_ them a reply, and a piece of your soul, and that you don't feel ready for that. I get that kindness received can feel wonderful, but also an invasion. I had someone once offer to help me rejig a cover for a book I've since unpublished, and I didn't feel ready to give up what I had, plus I was also afraid to turn down their work, because that would mean I was bad, so I said thanks and a bunch of excuses for why I didn't want it. But looking back, I wish I hadn't been so afraid of aid, if you know what I mean. Because I think I needed that help.

But if you don't know what I mean, and this sounds just too out there, then don't worry about it.

Just hang in there, you're further along than I am, and many others, and I'd like you to succeed because then I feel that I can too.

With a bit of work.

And who cares about blogs anyway?


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Dee J. Stone said:


> I hope I don't come off as a jerk or unappreciative, and I'm sorry if I do:
> 
> I do appreciate that she offered to give me honest and real feedback, so thanks, Elle Casey. I don't want to have to defend myself, but I did ask her if her advice would be regarding my covers, and she told me yes (as far as I understood). As I said in my OP, I know my covers are not professional, and I'm okay with that at this point. I don't see a point in having to talk about them when I will not be changing them (at least not anytime soon). Now, if she were to address issues I can fix, I am totally open to hearing those.


You didn't offend me at all. I just feel bad that you're not ready or willing to listen to a full/comprehensive review of your stuff, covers included, because I believe with at least one of your titles I looked at, you could really make a big hit in the market. Seriously, I'm not blowing smoke up your bum.  And my advice always takes into consideration people's financial situations and so on, so I wouldn't put you in a position to have to break the bank.

I read your sample. I don't think the issue is your writing _skill_. I believe I could help you as I've helped other behind the scenes, but if you don't want that help, that's absolutely okay. I'm not here to push myself or my opinions on anyone who isn't interested. Best of luck to you! You wrote several novels and that in itself is something to be very proud of.


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## D.L. Shutter (Jul 9, 2011)

I read somewhere that Nora Roberts didn't have a bestseller (meaning she probably kept her day job) until book #12. I get the chills when I think about that. Twelve. Full length. Novels. Before finding success.

Looking at our indie success stories I would say, respectfully, that you are still very, very early in the marathon. Hugh wrote a ton of stuff before Wool. Ward and Andre are getting crazy rich now but they each have HUGE catologues and have been at it for a while. Chan hit it out of the park with her debut but what other indie has duplicated that with their first and only book? Seems like a lightning strike to me. 

Just think about how many other writer's have poured their hearts and souls into query letters and submissions and after a year or more (D.W.S. once got a rejection letter 2 years after he sent it) have nothing to show for it at all while you have the beginnings of a readership and a sales base.  Keep going.

All the best.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks to all who have responded. I really appreciate all the advice.

*Elle*, I'm sorry. I think I freaked out (I tend to do that). I'd like the advice (I'm always open to it--it's the only way I've gotten this far in my writing), but I didn't feel so comfortable doing it publicly (my issues with being a private person), but I didn't want to be rude to all those who are learning from this thread and really want to hear your advice...

And I'm a real idiot, but I didn't know who you were. I'm so sorry .


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Dee J. Stone said:


> Thanks to all who have responded. I really appreciate all the advice.
> 
> *Elle*, I'm sorry. I think I freaked out (I tend to do that). I'd like the advice (I'm always open to it--it's the only way I've gotten this far in my writing), but I didn't feel so comfortable doing it publicly (my issues with being a private person), but I didn't want to be rude to all those who are learning from this thread and really want to hear your advice...
> 
> And I'm a real idiot, but I didn't know who you were. I'm so sorry .


Ah, don't worry about it. I'm not nearly the big deal that so many other indie authors are who hang out here. I appreciate all the kind words people have jumped in with about me. KB is the most supportive place you can go as a writer, bar none. I'm glad to be a part of it, and I remember what it was like to put up my first book and wait for the sales to come, so anywhere I can help, I like to do that if possible.

I get the shyness and sensitivity thing. These books are our babies if not a piece of our souls, so it's very painful to hear anything negative about them. I can give you the constructive feedback privately if you send me your email address. I want you to know I wouldn't bother offering to help if I thought your writing was poo. There's nothing I can do for someone who can't write. It's because your writing is good that I'm willing to take the time. I have a book demanding to be written right now, so every hour counts.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks so much, that's very kind of you. Is it okay if I PM you my email address?

I really appreciate it


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

Buttonman88 said:


> In my (unsuccessful) experience, improving book sales is about the holistic approach: content, blurb, cover, marketing etc.


There's a lot of good advice in your post, but this is the heart of the matter. In my opinion, you dismiss any one of those aspects at your peril.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Dee J. Stone said:


> Thanks so much, that's very kind of you. Is it okay if I PM you my email address?
> 
> I really appreciate it


Just email me at [email protected] with links to your books.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Michael_J_Sullivan said:


> Now for some really unconventional advice...it may be that you should go traditional. Here me out. I fell that if you want to be successful self-publishing you have to produce books that stand toe-to-toe with those coming out from New York.


I just wanted to highlight this sentence, because it is illogical: if you're not producing books that are suitable for New York than you sure as heck shouldn't waste your time approaching New York.

Traditional publishing is for a narrow group of books which are actually commercial -- so if you succeed at one you are likely to succeed at the other. Self-publishing is suited for both commercial books and for non-commercial books. If you fail at it, that's not a good sign you'd do better at traditional publishing.

Camille


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> I'm not nearly the big deal that so many other indie authors are who hang out here.


I call b.s. The self-effacing delivery was smooth though. Aw shucks and all that. "I just sell books," she said, drawing a dagger from her boot, eye on his jugular.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I've been writing since about 1985 - and for the last few years - counting traditional releases, e-books and public appearances I average about ten thousand bucks a year.

As a side-income that ain't bad.

As the culmination of a thirty-five year career it outright sucks!

But I keep on writing because I enjoy the habit. It keeps me out of the pool halls and away from the farmer's daughter.

If you enjoy it, keep on doing it. Write and release four more books next year. Then you'll have eight e-books. That's eight fishing lines in the water. You write another year - four more books - and you'll have twelve. Each of them will sell a few copies every month. The folks who buy, read and enjoy one will hunt up the others. Or at least about one out of every ten readers will most likely do that.

So - in three years time you'll have twelve books out there and - if that one in ten ratio that I pulled out of somewhere down beneath my back pants pocket holds true - you'll have one or maybe two dedicated readers who will be moved enough by your words to hunt up a copy of everything you ever released.

Meanwhile, you write four more books.

This is a long game we writers play at. 

Really, if you had wanted to get rich you should have gone into dentistry - NOT writing.

Keep at it - and have fun.


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## Matt Ryan (Nov 16, 2012)

"Just keep writing"

I don't know...

Mimi wrote something that I've been thinking about for a while on another thread. It was about _The worst advice you ever been given about writing?_. Her response was "Just keep writing"-That was the worst advice she'd ever been given! It may have been tongue in cheek, a passing comment, I don't know, but it stuck with me. I mean, think about it, it's like the KB motto to say just keep writing, keep writing and they will come, but will they? It's actually made me look at my total strategy(or lack of) as a writer because "just keep writing" isn't always going to get you sales, it isn't going to put books in peoples devices. You need to have a strategy to better your chances of success. Ask any of the top sellers here on KB what their strategy is for the next year and I bet you 9-10 will have one, and have one that makes sense.

I wish I could give you advice on what those strategy's could be but we have a truly amazing core of advice givers that have much more to offer than I do. As far as Elle(A role model of mine), I've been watching her initial strategy for a long time now and she had great success at it, by my measure, but didn't reach the NYT best sellers list until she made a shift in her strategy. I think Mimi and HM ward have made similar discoveries along the way. See, they found a way to better their strategies through massive trial and error(I would give a great deal to have these ladies in my corner as mentors) and found ways to reach the masses. What do you think would have happened to them if they "Just kept writing"?

I guess my point is, maybe just keep writing isn't the best advice. I would say, figure out what your goal is as a writer and find the best strategy to that goal. I've seen no less than a dozen successful strategies just by creeping around the WC for the last year.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I hear you, Matt.

I'm not saying that "Just keep writing" is the BEST advice for selling e-books.

I'm just saying that it is the BEST advice I have to offer. 

If I was a wiser man I'd have better advice.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Matt Ryan said:


> "Just keep writing"
> 
> I don't know...
> 
> Mimi wrote something that I've been thinking about for a while on another thread. It was about _The worst advice you ever been given about writing?_. Her response was "Just keep writing"-That was the worst advice she'd ever been given! It may have been tongue in cheek, a passing comment, I don't know, but it stuck with me. I mean, think about it, it's like the KB motto to say just keep writing, keep writing and they will come, but will they? ...


Yep, that's exactly what I meant by it. You have to keep writing, of course, but it's not enough. You don't need to spend all your time attempting to make one-on-one friends with other humans on social media hoping they'll purchase your $2.99 book, netting you a profit of 4 cents per hour, either. But you do need to have a strategy/business plan in addition to word count.


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## Michael_J_Sullivan (Aug 3, 2011)

Dee J. Stone said:


> *Michael_J_Sullivan*, thanks for the advice. It's actually the opposite--I have been writing for quite a few years and have always wanted to get published. But for many reasons, I did NOT want to go to a traditional publisher, and may times, I stopped writing because of that. Then I heard about self-publishing, and I thought that was perfect for me. I'm not writing because I think self-publishers make it big and make tons of money. Not at all. I just want to write books and have people read them and love them, and publish them in the way that's most comfortable for me.


If you don't want to use traditional publishing, that is fine...but one way or another the books still have to be produced with the same quality as those that professionally produced. One way or the other the books need good covers, clean editing, and compelling blurbs. It sounded as if you don't have the money to do this...but my point was that one way or another you can't skip these aspects and then expect success. Yes, there are some people who have less than stellar covers and have been successful but that is the exception not the rule.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Testing your books against the tradpub market is a good idea, imo. As long as you don't cut off any selfpub avenues, what's there to lose? So what if your MS sits on a pile for two years, if it's also still on Amazon, who cares?

What you can get is not primarily a publishing contract, but personalised advice, if tradpub people think your book is good enough, but they still won't or can't buy it. This is a huge shot of confidence: if publishers are willing to ask for your entire manuscript, then obviously you write well enough for them to look at it.

It's no good letting friends and well-meaning other writers allay your fears by telling you how well you write (of course they'll say this!). Those tradepub books are your competitors. You have to test your work against them, and then find ways to get better, to write the books that readers expect and want to recommend to their friends.

I agree with Mimi. "Just keep writing" is advice that comes with caveats.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

Mimi said:


> Yep, that's exactly what I meant by it. You have to keep writing, of course, but it's not enough. You don't need to spend all your time attempting to make one-on-one friends with other humans on social media hoping they'll purchase your $2.99 book, netting you a profit of 4 cents per hour, either. But you do need to have a strategy/business plan in addition to word count.


This is absolutely true. I'm also not a fan of the "write and they will come" method, which sounds to me like wishful thinking.

There's a real question in these threads about when one should give up writing altogether. I went through many, many years of struggle back in the pre-indie days and there were times when I really thought I was wasting my time. The thing I discovered, however, was that I was happier when I was writing than when I was trying to quit. It really sucked writing something that I thought was pretty good only to run into brick walls, but I simply couldn't stop trying. I always felt that maybe the next book was the one that would do it, or if not, the one after that.

Thank goodness for indie publishing or I might still be fighting that struggle. Actually, I'm pretty sure I would still be unpublished.

If you enjoy telling stories, keep writing. Don't _just _write, as Dalya points out, but keep doing it. Maybe success will come, maybe not. Some of this is out of our hands. But you have to enjoy the act of storytelling itself. If not, there are easier ways to make a living.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I want to say something else in reaction to something in Michael's response above.

It is amazing when you sell something to a respectable publisher/magazine or have a good sales month, how quickly the euphoria wears off. It is only replaced by more doubt:

Will my next book/story be as good?
Will I be dumped by my publisher?
Will my selfpub book tank?

Hugh started a big thread on this a while back. Basically, the self-doubt never stops, no matter how much you sell.

You have to divorce financial success or recognition from your pleasure in writing. You have to *want* to write. You have to want to do this even if you never sell anything else.

I'm going to say something controversial. On threads like these, invariably a lot of people jump in with encouraging words. "Don't give up!" the cheerful voices chime. Sure, a bit of persistence goes a long way. A wee bit of tenacity is not a bad characteristic to develop as a human being in general, but...

If it's no longer fun for you, you should give up. Absolutely. Take up something else that does give you pleasure. There is no shame in that.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I am so glad you decided to accept Elle's offer. I can understand being a shy and reserved person, but sometimes you have to step outside your comfort zone and try something new. The best thing I did was accept a couple of kind offers given to me.

That said, if you want to quit, then quit. You have to do what you feel is best for your life, and if you aren't happy with your writing or your sales, then it's best to move on to something new.

But the thing is, you've only been publishing for a year. You haven't given it nearly enough time. Sure, some folks take off and sell huge amounts of books, and it can look so easy. Sometimes they've been trying behind the scenes for years, though, so you never really know how hard writers have worked to be "overnight successes".

You may never sell a lot of books. Or you may become one of those outliers (and I think they may be easier to come by in the future) and sell big. Or you may become a solid mid-lister, and sell enough books to have a decent standard of living. A lot of it depends on luck, and on shifting public tastes.

Whatever you end up doing, I wish you the best.


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## Steamdave (Sep 24, 2013)

I'll just throw in two other eurocents of mine.

First cent: about the "keep writing" advice - I agree absolutely that writing is not enough.
We need to become savvy in a number of fields - that's what author/publisher means.
And our earlier books are our testing ground - it's where we learn about covers, about hiring a good editor, about exploring and defining our target audience and getting in touch with it.
It's a full-time job - and we are alone, and learning from a mix of bad experiences, assorted handbooks and word of mouth (until we discover KBoards, at least  ).
It's trial and error, and it's all right.
But writing is still the _conditio sine qua non_ for publishing, learning, selling.
So maybe the right advice should be "Keep writing, keep learning".

Second cent: about Elle's quite generous offer.
Accepting criticism is hard as hell.
That's another thing we need to learn - and we learn it the hard way.
Ever been severely thrashed by some two-bit blogger because on page 75 of your 400+ book you got the wrong number of buttons on some extra's uniform?
It smarts - because it's foolish and unfair and spiteful.
But one can consider it as training, sort of gladiatorial school for writers.
*BUT* when a compassionate professional with lots of experience offers to share that experience - as it was in this case - you give thanks, jump at it, and promise yourself to pay it forward. Because maybe it will be harsh as promised, but it will be fair.
We have to give thanks for fairness when we meet it.

OK, end of sermon.
Sorry 'bout that


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## Michael_J_Sullivan (Aug 3, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> If it's no longer fun for you, you should give up. Absolutely. Take up something else that does give you pleasure. There is no shame in that.


I agree 100%. Life is short. Do what you enjoy!


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