# When did Cassandra Zara get banned for good?



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

When did Cassandra Zara get banned from Amazon for good? She had a best selling stepbrother series in romance. Now they've made her put it under another pen name altogether. Makes no sense. The stepbrother romance was actually legit. Anyone know what happened?


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Are we sure she was banned and not republished because she sold the story? I mean is there a blog post or something where she says she was banned?


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Are we sure she was banned and not republished because she sold the story? I mean is there a blog post or something where she says she was banned?


She left a note on her Amazon page that said she was banned but Amazon is allowing her to publish her romance only under the new pen name Krista Lakes. I was in the middle of one of her series and when I went to buy it it was gone. Apparently you can't even get the babysitter series, only the stepbrother under the new name


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## Overrated (Mar 20, 2015)

Cassandra and Krista are both pen names for the same author. I read about this elsewhere, and followed the progress. Apparently, she was told, as Cassandra, she was not going to be able to publish her stepbrother books any longer. So she took down all her stuff, and republished under Krista's pen name. There's a blog post on her Krista Lakes page about why she wrote erotica.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Lisa Manifold said:


> Cassandra and Krista are both pen names for the same author. I read about this elsewhere, and followed the progress. Apparently, she was told, as Cassandra, she was not going to be able to publish her stepbrother books any longer. So she took down all her stuff, and republished under Krista's pen name. There's a blog post on her Krista Lakes page about why she wrote erotica.


Oh, maybe they got complaints because she had erotica and romance on the same page. I was worried about that happening to me, so I started a new romance pen name. Sometimes the romance lover isn't as fond of erotica, but I have no idea if that's why in her case. I'll check out the blog.


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## Overrated (Mar 20, 2015)

katrina46 said:


> Oh, maybe they got complaints because she had erotica and romance on the same page. I was worried about that happening to me, so I started a new romance pen name. Sometimes the romance lover isn't as fond of erotica, but I have no idea if that's why in her case. I'll check out the blog.


It was very odd. She flew to Seattle to talk with Amazon, and was told she was not going to be allowed to publish as Cassandra. I get the feeling we were told only a teensy, weensy little bit of what went on.

What is bothersome is that she had both names under one account, and had been publishing for what - 3 years? - and then they decided that some rule had been broken. I have not, in my reading, discovered exactly _what_ it was she did wrong.

It troubles me. I wish one side or the other would give out more info.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Wait, she republished the stuff that was taken down under another name and that was okay?


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Lisa Manifold said:


> It was very odd. She flew to Seattle to talk with Amazon, and was told she was not going to be allowed to publish as Cassandra. I get the feeling we were told only a teensy, weensy little bit of what went on.
> 
> What is bothersome is that she had both names under one account, and had been publishing for what - 3 years? - and then they decided that some rule had been broken. I have not, in my reading, discovered exactly _what_ it was she did wrong.
> 
> It troubles me. I wish one side or the other would give out more info.


Yeah it's troubling. Amazon is always making changes. But the step-brother stuff was always a slippery slope.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

If you read the terms and conditions, they reserve the right to deem our content unacceptable for any reason. This is one of the chief reason why I am now published wide. I'd like to get Amazon down to 50% of my total income if possible just because right now, they have the right to arbitrily decide tomorrow Jane Austen derivative works can't be published anymore. And if they do, I lose 85% of my income, which is better than 100%. And each month I make more and more fans on the other vendors. We are publishers, any store can refuse to carry or sell our titles.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> If you read the terms and conditions, they reserve the right to deem our content unacceptable for any reason. This is one of the chief reason why I am now published wide. I'd like to get Amazon down to 50% of my total income if possible just because right now, they have the right to arbitrily decide tomorrow Jane Austen derivative works can't be published anymore. And if they do, I lose 85% of my income, which is better than 100%. And each month I make more and more fans on the other vendors. We are publishers, any store can refuse to carry or sell our titles.


Well said. That's also why I decided to go wide again. I don't want to depend on them because they're so unpredictable.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Monique said:


> Wait, she republished the stuff that was taken down under another name and that was okay?


Sounds like a compromise reached through negotiation, doesn't it?


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## lyndabelle (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm guessing everyone involved wanted to still make money somehow. I'm guessing they found a way to do it. Another pen name is a great solution. I mean, hard to build another brand, but just telling your fans, "Heah, I'm writing by this name now" should help. At least she still gets to sell and write her stories.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

From what I've read it sounds like she kept pushing her luck after warnings. The stuff I've seen seems to indicate Amazon was having a problem with her breeding stuff most of all and after repeated tries to push it through despite their warnings they then lowered the hammer and allowed her to publish her stepbrother romance under another pen name but killed all the breeding stuff. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the gist of what I'm reading. I honestly am glad I walked away from the erotica market a few years ago. I was doing well until the PI crackdown. I reworked a lot of it and published again but it barely sells. I love reading erotica but I never pay for it. I go to Literotica and enjoy the really filthy stuff there for free.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Monique said:


> Wait, she republished the stuff that was taken down under another name and that was okay?


If I had to guess I'd say her erotica pen name was so tarnished they just wanted her to publish her bestselling romance under a different name and let the other go. Like I said, that's what I'm doing myself. I don't think romance readers will all appreciate my erotica, so I keep it separated.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> If you read the terms and conditions, they reserve the right to deem our content unacceptable for any reason. This is one of the chief reason why I am now published wide. I'd like to get Amazon down to 50% of my total income if possible just because right now, they have the right to arbitrily decide tomorrow Jane Austen derivative works can't be published anymore. And if they do, I lose 85% of my income, which is better than 100%. And each month I make more and more fans on the other vendors. We are publishers, any store can refuse to carry or sell our titles.


I've been wide for awhile, but I don't get the sales I get on Amazon. A lot of the promotion sites leave Barnes and Nobles and Ibooks out. I get some money, but only a fraction of what Amazon earns me.


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## NoBlackHats (Oct 17, 2012)

I will tell you what I tell my kids.

"What did she say when you asked her about it?"

Boyd, I concur.  Why am I even here?


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## LondonCalling (Dec 19, 2014)

Now I just want to read her books...


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Boyd said:


> What's the first rule of fight club?


I don't know. I never saw the movie.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I love reading erotica but I never pay for it. I go to Literotica and enjoy the really filthy stuff there for free.


This. I'm amazed at the market for erotica when there is so, so, so much for free.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Boyd said:


> Google it.


No, just tell me.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Monique said:


> This. I'm amazed at the market for erotica when there is so, so, so much for free.


I always thought it was strange, too, but there is a market. That's why I started out there, so I could make money while I worked on other genres. I think the biggest misconception about erotica writers is that none of us could actually write anything else. I bet lots of us have other non erotica pen names.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

lyndabelle said:


> I'm guessing everyone involved wanted to still make money somehow. I'm guessing they found a way to do it. Another pen name is a great solution. I mean, hard to build another brand, but just telling your fans, "Heah, I'm writing by this name now" should help. At least she still gets to sell and write her stories.


I'm sure she's fine. She's a New York times best seller under her other pen name.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Monique said:


> Wait, she republished the stuff that was taken down under another name and that was okay?


The stories were massively edited and I'm pretty sure Cass said Amazon had to approve the new versions before they went up.


Monique said:


> This. I'm amazed at the market for erotica when there is so, so, so much for free.


Well, the porn sites are generally bursting at the seams with trojans and malware. Not Literotica in particular, just in general. And then a lot of people can't get to porn sites or don't want them in their browsing history. So you go to Amazon, who makes it really easy for you to find what you're searching for, then you download nicely formatted MOBI files to your Kindle and you don't have to worry about trying to read weirdly formatted text files and such. And since "Debbie Gets Tentacle-banged by Her Four Were-Octopus Stepbrothers" was categorized in romance you don't even have to admit you're reading porn.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

KelliWolfe said:


> The stories were massively edited and I'm pretty sure Cass said Amazon had to approve the new versions before they went up. Well, the porn sites are generally bursting at the seams with trojans and malware. Not Literotica in particular, just in general. And then a lot of people can't get to porn sites or don't want them in their browsing history. So you go to Amazon, who makes it really easy for you to find what you're searching for, then you download nicely formatted MOBI files to your Kindle and you don't have to worry about trying to read weirdly formatted text files and such. And since "Debbie Gets Tentacle-banged by Her Four Were-Octopus Stepbrothers" was categorized in romance you don't even have to admit you're reading porn.


I actually wanted to do a Stepbrother thing. I have a whole story and the fact that he's her stepbrother isn't the focus of the book.The female character is in love with someone else for half of the story. Still, I didn't want to get caught up in a Stepbrother crackdown, so today I changed it so the parents are divorced before they ever hookup. I almost changed it so it wasn't a stepbrother at all, but I've already written so much of it I didn't want to go back. Plus I like the story. I'm not even going to put Stepbrother in the title, because the book is not just about that. i'm very nervous though. I've never done a 50k before. I'm not sure it's any good, but I'll just let the readers decide.


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## lyndabelle (Feb 26, 2015)

katrina46 said:


> I always thought it was strange, too, but there is a market. That's why I started out there, so I could make money while I worked on other genres. I think the biggest misconception about erotica writers is that none of us could actually write anything else. I bet lots of us have other non erotica pen names.


Yes, I have two other pen names that I write under, and it's the erotica and erotic romances making me money right now. Erotic Romances are taking off. It's putting my paranormal romance in the dust. Not looking forward to the KU change though. I think that's why all the people are going to Amazon instead of getting the free stuff. They can borrow what they like for the $10. Plus, there is more story oriented erotica on Amazon. Though I think the Fifty Shades pattern is being written to death. New people. New is what sells.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2015)

Boyd said:


> What's the first rule of fight club?


Don't forget the second rule of Fight Club. It's just as important as the first.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)




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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Am i missing something. Cassandra Zara still has 29 books (in various formats, some in multi author box sets) on amazon, she isn't completely banned. I thought she was dropping the CZ name (from what i read)


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Boyd said:


> What's the first rule of fight club?


Uh, keep your right up? 

Remember da roolz from da other forum, peeps.


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## crow.bar.beer (Oct 20, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I honestly am glad I walked away from the erotica market a few years ago. I was doing well until the PI crackdown.


Wow, I'd love to read some of that , I'm writing in it currently. 

It's no wonder your writing productivity is so impressive.


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## Mopsy (Jan 4, 2015)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I love reading erotica but I never pay for it. I go to Literotica and enjoy the really filthy stuff there for free.


and



Monique said:


> This. I'm amazed at the market for erotica when there is so, so, so much for free.


I am happy that you both enjoy reading erotica but at the same time I am really disappointed by these comments.

One can find plenty of reading in EVERY genre for free online. Imagine if people dropped into a thread about a popular and financially successful writer of any other genre to say these sorts of things, which to me are dangerously close to suggesting that readers who pay for that writer's hard work are suckers or something. I'm going to stop there before I say something my mom wouldn't approve of.


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## Censored (Oct 31, 2014)

If there's a blog post, then I imagine the author has already said what she means to say on the subject. If you have other questions you might consider going directly to the source rather than soliciting rumors behind her back on Kboards.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Don't forget the second rule of Fight Club. It's just as important as the first.


And what's the second rule of Fight Club? That we can't talk about not talking about Fight Club?


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2015)

Censored said:


> If there's a blog post, then I imagine the author has already said what she means to say on the subject. If you have other questions you might consider going directly to the source rather than soliciting rumors behind her back on Kboards.


Thank you for posting this.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Alan Petersen said:


>


Good thing I'm not a member of a fight club and I'd never listen to anything Brad Pitt says. Just some advice I got from Jennifer Aniston.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Thank you for posting this.


It's not a rumor. That's what she says on her Amazon Page. In a big red BANNED sign. I just started a thread asking when that happened because i went to buy her book and it's not available. She says pretty clearly I'm banned. Amazon doesn't want me publishing my books under Cassandra Zara. Not a rumor unless she started it. And let's not forget when I asked I was and still am sort of upset am that I started a series I'll never finish. If you don't like the thread, as Betsy would say plenty of others. Any way I got my answer. Have a nice day. Moving on now.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

katrina46 said:


> It's not a rumor. That's what she says on her Amazon Page. In a big red BANNED sign. I just started a thread asking when that happened because i went to buy her book and it's not available. She says pretty clearly I'm banned. Amazon doesn't want me publishing my books under Cassandra Zara. Not a rumor unless she started it. And let's not forget when I asked I was and still am sort of upset am that I started a series I'll never finish. If you don't like the thread, as Betsy would say plenty of others. Any way I got my answer. Have a nice day. Moving on now.


I'm glad you started the thread. It's useful, imo, at the very least so people can see just how inconsistent Amazon/kdp can be.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

SevenDays said:


> I'm glad you started the thread. It's useful, imo, at the very least so people can see just how inconsistent Amazon/kdp can be.


Thank you. It's very scary. I'm in the middle of a Stepbrother romance, which should be okay because it was for Penelope, but I'm not Penelope so I have to guess it's okay. Makes me want to go wide as fast as I can.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Two points...

we discussed this thread in the smoke filled admin caves when it was started, and our conclusion was that it was both a comment and a question based on something publicly stated by an author which would be of interest to the membership, and thus appropriate.

At the same time, speculation and rumors about Cassandra's side of things are not useful--so pertinent known info as stated by her has been welcome. If we stopped speculation about why Amazon does things, we'd have to close half the threads in the Cafe.

Let's respect each other, OK?

Betsy


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

SevenDays said:


> I'm glad you started the thread. It's useful, imo, at the very least so people can see just how inconsistent Amazon/kdp can be.


So true. I don't read or write erotica, so I wouldn't have known about this, but I found it chillingly and important information on the power that Amazon has over most of us.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> If you read the terms and conditions, they reserve the right to deem our content unacceptable for any reason. This is one of the chief reason why I am now published wide. I'd like to get Amazon down to 50% of my total income if possible just because right now, they have the right to arbitrily decide tomorrow Jane Austen derivative works can't be published anymore. And if they do, I lose 85% of my income, which is better than 100%. And each month I make more and more fans on the other vendors. We are publishers, any store can refuse to carry or sell our titles.


On that note I got 4 sales from Barnes and Nobles today, so looks like it can be done. I just have to keep publishing. I think I'll take 3 more out of KU today and see what happens. I like this 90 days to get out thing they've offered. I also think that since so many writers aren't pulling out of KU because everyone is waiting to see what the payout will be like it's a great time to get visibility and gain your traction. It seems to be working. Trust me, 4 sales on Barnes and Nobles is a jump for me. I simply remind myself I only got that many on Amazon when I started out, so it just takes time.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Alan Petersen said:


> So true. I don't read or write erotica, so I wouldn't have known about this, but I found it chillingly and important information on the power that Amazon has over most of us.
> [/quote} I think we writers give them that power and I'm not going to do it anymore. As Elizabeth said, I'm going to build my audience on other sites to the point that Amazon doesn't scare me anymore.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Mopsy said:


> and
> 
> I am happy that you both enjoy reading erotica but at the same time I am really disappointed by these comments.
> 
> One can find plenty of reading in EVERY genre for free online. Imagine if people dropped into a thread about a popular and financially successful writer of any other genre to say these sorts of things, which to me are dangerously close to suggesting that readers who pay for that writer's hard work are suckers or something. I'm going to stop there before I say something my mom wouldn't approve of.


There is tons of free erotica on literotica. Good erotica, not so much. Some people pay because the author really does it for them.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## jimbro (Jan 10, 2014)

Monique said:


> This. I'm amazed at the market for erotica when there is so, so, so much for free.


Me too, Monique.

A _slightly related_ story: When Andy Wier initially made his book The Martian available, he was self-published. Before Random House picked it up later, he was offering two different ways: a FREE download from his website, and as a 99 cent download from Amazon because he knew some people might prefer the easy install from Amazon to their Kindles. He found it too difficult to make it free on Amazon (at the time), so he had to charge .99. To his great surprise, the vast majority of people *paid *the .99 rather than take the free download from his website. People will pay for convenience.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

katrina46 said:


> On that note I got 4 sales from Barnes and Nobles today, so looks like it can be done. I just have to keep publishing. I think I'll take 3 more out of KU today and see what happens. I like this 90 days to get out thing they've offered. I also think that since so many writers aren't pulling out of KU because everyone is waiting to see what the payout will be like it's a great time to get visibility and gain your traction. It seems to be working. Trust me, 4 sales on Barnes and Nobles is a jump for me. I simply remind myself I only got that many on Amazon when I started out, so it just takes time.


I'm making about $500 a month on B&N and a bit more on Kobo (with less than half my catalog) and about twice that on Google Play. Considering that a big chunk of my newest stories are still in KU and I've only published one new story on the other sites since last September/October I'd say it's definitely possible. With the KU changes I'll almost certainly be going wide with everything from now on, though, and I expect Amazon to drop to less than 50% of my income by the end of the summer.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

KelliWolfe said:


> I'm making about $500 a month on B&N and a bit more on Kobo (with less than half my catalog) and about twice that on Google Play. Considering that a big chunk of my newest stories are still in KU and I've only published one new story on the other sites since last September/October I'd say it's definitely possible. With the KU changes I'll almost certainly be going wide with everything from now on, though, and I expect Amazon to drop to less than 50% of my income by the end of the summer.


Thank you for posting that. I needed the encouragement.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Mopsy said:


> and
> 
> I am happy that you both enjoy reading erotica but at the same time I am really disappointed by these comments.
> 
> One can find plenty of reading in EVERY genre for free online. Imagine if people dropped into a thread about a popular and financially successful writer of any other genre to say these sorts of things, which to me are dangerously close to suggesting that readers who pay for that writer's hard work are suckers or something. I'm going to stop there before I say something my mom wouldn't approve of.


How is it different from anyone on this forum saying they prefer reading free books, which has been said numerous times? I'm sorry for telling the truth. I like the really filthy stuff Amazon banned. Sue me.


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## Brittney (Jun 24, 2015)

By "going wide," you mean publishing on KDP select and also with other sellers? I thought Amazon didn't allow you to sell elsewhere? I'm a newbie so not sure.


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## dianapersaud (Sep 26, 2013)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> How is it different from anyone on this forum saying they prefer reading free books, which has been said numerous times? I'm sorry for telling the truth. I like the really filthy stuff Amazon banned. Sue me.





Amanda M. Lee said:


> How is it different from anyone on this forum saying they prefer reading free books, which has been said numerous times? I'm sorry for telling the truth. I like the really filthy stuff Amazon banned. Sue me.


What shocked me was that you admit you love to read "Filthy stuff that Amazon banned." 

Didn't you get the memo? Women aren't supposed to admit they like erotica, much less the "filthy, banned" kind.

I think you made some heads explode!


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## dianapersaud (Sep 26, 2013)

Brittney said:


> By "going wide," you mean publishing on KDP select and also with other sellers? I thought Amazon didn't allow you to sell elsewhere? I'm a newbie so not sure.


You can publish on Amazon (KDP) and anywhere else. The exclusivity requirement is for KDP Select ONLY. That is optional when you publish via KDP.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> How is it different from anyone on this forum saying they prefer reading free books, which has been said numerous times? I'm sorry for telling the truth. I like the really filthy stuff Amazon banned. Sue me.


I have one up over there that Amazon banned. I posted it over a year ago and still get people emailing they liked it. It came close to winning some sort of reward they give for stories with the most upvotes. I forget how it worked. I haven't actually been over there in a long time because I've learned to put non Amazon friendly stories on Barnes and Nobles instead.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> How is it different from anyone on this forum saying they prefer reading free books, which has been said numerous times? I'm sorry for telling the truth. I like the really filthy stuff Amazon banned. Sue me.


I prefer good books, whether they are free or paid. Now I am trying to think of authors for you.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> How is it different from anyone on this forum saying they prefer reading free books, which has been said numerous times? I'm sorry for telling the truth. I like the really filthy stuff Amazon banned. Sue me.


Lots of people like it and it was bringing in a *lot* of money for a lot of authors until the distributors started banning it. The really, really stupid thing is that if the distributors would just put in the miniscule amount of work it would take to create "adult only" sections of their stores the writers could continue bringing in a lot of money for themselves and the distributors and the readers would be happy because they could get the stories they want on the devices they want to read them on. It's a win-win for everyone, and it makes absolutely no sense to me that no one except Smashwords has even made an attempt at this.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Selena_Kitt said:


> I think I love you.
> 
> Come to The Dark Side Excitica... we have banned stuff. (and cookies)... (okay maybe not cookies... but lots of dirty things!)
> 
> ...


My problem is I couldn't find the original Baby for my Billionaire titles under KL. I'm assuming she had a baby, since you always get a HEA, but I'll never be able to see how it all played out since I only bought part one. Way to annoy readers, Zon.

_Edited quoted post. --Betsy_


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## funthebear (Sep 26, 2014)

Censored said:


> If there's a blog post, then I imagine the author has already said what she means to say on the subject. If you have other questions you might consider going directly to the source rather than soliciting rumors behind her back on Kboards.





> I will tell you what I tell my kids.
> 
> "What did she say when you asked her about it?"
> 
> Boyd, I concur. Why am I even here?


Just because some people here "know" her doesn't change the fact that she's a public figure. Asking a question about Stephen King isn't talking behind his back.

I get where you're coming from, but whether it's good or bad, people talk about famous people.

And to the OP, *she wasn't banned from amazon*. She got several of her stepbrother baby books banned, and pulled the rest. It's all in her blog posts.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Please read the blog post about what actually happened. I'd also like to emphasize this particular bit in light of the comments above:

*I'm not saying that hard-core erotica should be easily visible, but the only guideline as to what is not acceptable is "about what you'd expect." With a directive like that, the only way to learn where the boundaries are is to push until someone says stop.*

None of the erotica writers truly know what the boundaries are. Amazon flat out will not tell us, and they change their internal guidelines constantly so that what is perfectly acceptable today could get your account banned or half your catalog blocked next week. And things that were verboten two years ago don't get a second glance today. What makes it even more confusing is that things that will get you slammed in erotica are perfectly okay in romance - like having a book with "stepbrother" in the title where the MCs have underage and only borderline consensual sex.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

funthebear said:


> Just because some people here "know" her doesn't change the fact that she's a public figure. Asking a question about Stephen King isn't talking behind his back.
> 
> I get where you're coming from, but whether it's good or bad, people talk about famous people.
> 
> And to the OP, *she wasn't banned from amazon*. She got several of her stepbrother baby books banned, and pulled the rest. It's all in her blog posts.


Thank you.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Selena_Kitt said:


> I believe they're actually contained in the two new KL stepbro books. Same stories, with endings now. So if you buy the KL stepbro books, you'll find out!


Great, thank you.


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2015)

Quote:
"the only way to learn where the boundaries are is to push until someone says stop"

This is one of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with Amazon. It doesn't have the guts to spell out the boundaries in plain English.

I have thought that one of the boundaries is nudity.
But the other day, out of curiosity, I surfed the Amazon Italy site for erotica.
I found books illustrated with covers that would land us in the dungeon.
For example, a man with hands over a woman's naked breasts. A woman with her breasts bound with rope, etc.
The disclaimers said the books were "works of fiction."

Yet the books are in the category of "Art and photography" and even "non-fiction"
Perhaps it is the "Art and photography" and "non-fiction" category that puts the books under the Amazon radar.

But the book disclaimers say the books are "fiction"


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Okey Dokey said:


> Quote:
> "the only way to learn where the boundaries are is to push until someone says stop"
> 
> This is one of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with Amazon. It doesn't have the guts to spell out the boundaries in plain English.
> ...


Part of your answer is in your own post. You looked at amazon italy. Unfortunately, different countries have different tolerances, and those different rules (I think there was a thread here recently that Germany is cracking down on things). In the US, amazon bans nudity but allows weapons. In other countries, they allow nudity but disallow weapons. Yes, it would be great if there were "one ring to rule them", but until human beings as a whole agree on things cross-culturally, amazon is in as much as a bind as you authors.

i don't think amazon is trying to make things difficult, they are caught in the middle between wanting to make money and nod peeving off their bible belt costumers.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2015)

Don't agree with different counties contention.
Those Italian books will also show up on Amazon.com for the U.S.
Plus a few days ago I uploaded an Italian translation and it was uploaded through Amazon.com and will show up on Amazon.it

What I am trying to point out is that someone has figured out that "non-fiction" description for erotic fiction might apparently slip under the radar, ditto using the category "Art and photography"


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