# New EBOOK Creation Process (AKA Scrivener ROCKS)



## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

So... up till umm 48 hours ago, this is how I made clean EBooks:

* Write in Word for Mac. When complete save as HTML
* Load in To Calibre and fill out Metadata, then convert to EPUB.
* Export from Calibre and open in Sigil. 
* Let Sigil run amok with TinyHTML and stuff. 
* * Use Find/Replace to remove what is left of Word Dropings
* * Rename file as Calibre makes filenames with spaces
* * Remove cover completely. Add full Res cover back via the "Add Cover" tool 
* * Run EPUB Flight Check - Fix anything it finds
* * * Repeat until clean
* * Run EPUB Validator - Fix anything it finds
* * * Repeat until clean
* Remove all prior versions from Calibre and import the new EPUB 
* Convert To MOBI
* Upload MOBI To Amazon, upload EPUB to Kobo,B&N, and Smashwords

That process got me good results, but.....

* Write in Word
* Import the .DOC into Scrivener
* * Set Section Breaks (aka Chapters)
* * Compile to EPUB, and MOBI
* Check EPUB against EPUB Validator - Always perfect so far!
* Upload MOBI To Amazon, upload EPUB to Kobo,B&N, and Smashwords

Dang. WAAAAAAAAY better.  I suspect next royalty check that comes in and I am buying Scrivener. The only thing is I am fixing the cover still in Sigil, I need to figure out what setting to tweak in Scrivener to get the cover right, cause it does not get the HTML quite right on it. Everything else about the files is good. I can even tell it to compile a PDF for CreateSpace, but that will wait for my next book to test with. It uses Amazon's official KindleGen for MOBI creation, so that should help with any future compatibility changes. 

Since I do not write in it, I never thought of just using it for its compile tools.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Yup. I just had a similar experience.

I had gone back to hand coding in html after the Paperwhite font snafu. It was kind of a big pain, and I wasn't going through the hassle of having a table of contents, even though I've been living in terror of one of those Amazon emails telling me my book needs one.

Scrivener is freaking awesome. I expected it would be a little tough the first time using it because I'd have a learning curve, but it was actually really straightforward. And my favorite thing is that I now have that ebook all in one file, and if I need to fix a typo or something, I don't have to fix it in five different files.  

Also, I am writing in it, and it is hands-down the most awesome thing to write in ever. I love having the scenes broken up. I love having my outline in the same file. My only complaint is the lack of a built-in thesaurus, and that is a very tiny complaint.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

valeriec80 said:


> Also, I am writing in it, and it is hands-down the most awesome thing to write in ever. I love having the scenes broken up. I love having my outline in the same file. My only complaint is the lack of a built-in thesaurus, and that is a very tiny complaint.


So the main reason I do not write in it is because I send my word doc to my editor who uses TRACK CHANGES to do her stuff and then sends it back. My wife does a few editing passes also with TRACK CHANGES on. With my skills in English I can not afford to loose that feature of Word.


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

@Vydor

I am in the same situation as you where my editor writes in Word in track changes mode.  As I write in Scrivener and swear by it, for me I simply compile to Word for her to edit...go back and forth with her in editing...the re-import the text into the appropriate sections in my Scrivener file.  

So far it has worked great.  I am publishing my first ebook shortly and plan to use Scrivener to convert to mobi and go from there.  Hope it works!  (From what I am reading, many are very positive on the process so that is reassuring)


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## SamanthaGrey (Dec 13, 2012)

Scrivener is awesome!! I love its conversion tool. I write in it, too, because I love breaking up the scenes, seeing my word count stats for the day compared to my overall novel goal, and really so many other things.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

9thChapter said:


> @Vydor
> 
> I am in the same situation as you where my editor writes in Word in track changes mode. As I write in Scrivener and swear by it, for me I simply compile to Word for her to edit...go back and forth with her in editing...the re-import the text into the appropriate sections in my Scrivener file.
> 
> So far it has worked great. I am publishing my first ebook shortly and plan to use Scrivener to convert to mobi and go from there. Hope it works! (From what I am reading, many are very positive on the process so that is reassuring)


I have thought of that, and still might do it, but for now I just do all my actual writing in Word, and my ebook building in Scrivener.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

A much better process isn't it. One of the best tools for ePub and Mobi.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

9thChapter said:


> @Vydor
> 
> I am in the same situation as you where my editor writes in Word in track changes mode. As I write in Scrivener and swear by it, for me I simply compile to Word for her to edit...go back and forth with her in editing...the re-import the text into the appropriate sections in my Scrivener file.
> 
> So far it has worked great. I am publishing my first ebook shortly and plan to use Scrivener to convert to mobi and go from there. Hope it works! (From what I am reading, many are very positive on the process so that is reassuring)


This is exactly what I do. It's easy to export a Word file to send to editors. I do EVERYTHING in Scrivener. I have my drafts, notes, outlines, plot index cards, character sheets, maps, online reference material, editors notes, and final drafts for both Kindle and CreateSpace all in Scrivener.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I know people will react with absolute horror at the notion, but I've not had any trouble with Word directly to Calibre.

Write in Word
No TOC. Just format the Chapter headings as H1
Convert to filtered HTML
Open in Calibre, enter metadata, add cover, name the H1 as the chapter headings (which then appear only when you "go to table of contents").
Save file as .mobi and ePub
Done

It opens just fine in Paperwhite, tests just fine in the other versions, looks fine in the preview, I've not had any complaints about formatting.
I have no special formatting other than paragraph indents, chapter heading size and italics.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Quiss said:


> I know people will react with absolute horror at the notion, but I've not had any trouble with Word directly to Calibre.
> 
> Write in Word
> No TOC. Just format the Chapter headings as H1
> ...


My process:

Write in Scrivener
Add Metadata
Select cover image from list Don't know why I included this. I add my covers when I upload to Amazon.
Click "Compile"
Done


Didn't Amazon say they were no longer accepting .mobi files that were compiled in Calibre anymore? I remember there being a discussion because they specifically mentioned Scrivener was good to use being that it uses the Amazon KindleGen compiler.

I mean, if that's what you're using and there's no problem, then I guess they're accepting your files. I just remember reading something about it not long ago.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Jason Eric Pryor said:


> I mean, if that's what you're using and there's no problem, then I guess they're accepting your files. I just remember reading something about it not long ago.


I did, too, so I was surprised.
Because Amazon adds the cover separately, I was leaving it off the Calibre files. So the Calibre-created .mobi was rejected every time. Once I added the cover in Calibre, things uploaded without trouble. (No double cover, either, so go figure.)


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## S Jaffe (Jul 3, 2011)

I use Calibre and put in the cover. No trouble with Amazon. No double-cover.

I've been considering Scrivener for awhile. Does the non-Mac version work well or is it really just an option for you Mac users?


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I've never had much luck converting from Word to mobi or epub through Calibre - it adds too much junk html.  I do prefer to write in Word, though, and then import it to Scrivener for structuring and exporting to epub. I usually have to edit the epub with Sigil, though, because Scrivener puts in some artifacts in the toc that I don't want


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Amazon requires a cover in the mobi, but then it replaces it. Go figure. The other failure is make sure your html file has no spaces.

Also, if you convert html to mobi, it will remove 80% or so of the word html crap. The calibre version of mobi is very very stripped down. Only the very basics. I'd go html -> mobi -> epub and then look at it. I don't find anything left to clean up.

I love Scrivener, but Calibre is really good and much maligned. If you go into Baen books, which don't have DRM, you'll discover they use it. Most of the failures seem to be because of the metadata/cover or spaces in the filename thing, but instead of figuring it out, people go out and declare IT NEVAH WORKZ!. 

FWIW I really can't imagine not writing directly in Scrivener if you're going to use it at all. It's so good at what it does!


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## LoriCook (Oct 9, 2012)

Can I ask something really basic:

I write in Word, then follow the simple format instructions on KDP.
These instructions end by telling you to save as a filtered HTML file.
I then upload this file directly to Amazon.

For ePub I use the same HTML file and convert using Calibre.

Is this wrong? 

lorixxx


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

LoriCook said:


> Is this wrong?


It's not wrong if it works 
I think we need to make sure to test our files and method extensively in the major readers and apps and use the available app simulators to make sure it works.
There are books that have much more complex formatting, graphics, embedded fonts and other items that require far more attention. So for those perhaps it's best to use a more precise process to ensure the best quality.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

I highly recommend attempting to draft in Scrivener, as well. There are serious advantages to doing this aside from already having the file in Scrivener.

Here's a screenshot of my binder right now. It might look like a mess, but it's actually very informative of where I'm at in the writing process. It also lets me know what stage each part of my writing is at.

Some very powerful drafting stuff here, if you look into it. For editing purposes - just export to Word, and then you can use that if you chose.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> I write in Word, then follow the simple format instructions on KDP.
> These instructions end by telling you to save as a filtered HTML file.
> I then upload this file directly to Amazon.


Uploading HTML directly will produce a perfectly readable book, but it may not have some of the features like tables of contents, an NCX table of contents for "go to" features. You just get a lot more control over things like the TOC or metadata if you do your own conversions.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Amazon accepts uploads in epub so you can skip the conversion to mobi if you want to. One less step for those lazy beggars like me.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> Amazon requires a cover in the mobi, but then it replaces it. Go figure.


I didn't have a cover in my .mobi file. I uploaded my .mobi without a cover, then just uploaded the cover through Amazon.


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> I highly recommend attempting to draft in Scrivener, as well. There are serious advantages to doing this aside from already having the file in Scrivener.
> 
> Here's a screenshot of my binder right now. It might look like a mess, but it's actually very informative of where I'm at in the writing process. It also lets me know what stage each part of my writing is at.
> 
> Some very powerful drafting stuff here, if you look into it. For editing purposes - just export to Word, and then you can use that if you chose.


I'd like to know more about this drafting mode you are using, Kelly. Learning more abo Scrivener every day it seems!

Darren T. Patrick, author of the Rithhek Cage series

@9thChapter (twitter)

darrentpatrick.com


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

So happy to see this post. I just this morning did a search here for Scrivener and came across a thread from 2011. Most people raved about Scrivener but said they have to export it to set up the formatting for ebooks. And then this thread tells me I can do that right through Scrivener! I'm so downloading this today!


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Mysterygirl said:


> So happy to see this post. I just this morning did a search here for Scrivener and came across a thread from 2011. Most people raved about Scrivener but said they have to export it to set up the formatting for ebooks. And then this thread tells me I can do that right through Scrivener! I'm so downloading this today!


You'll love it. It was the best $40 I ever spent.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Jason Eric Pryor said:


> I didn't have a cover in my .mobi file. I uploaded my .mobi without a cover, then just uploaded the cover through Amazon.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

LoriCook said:


> Can I ask something really basic:
> 
> I write in Word, then follow the simple format instructions on KDP.
> These instructions end by telling you to save as a filtered HTML file.
> ...


Check and make sure that your font size isn't too tiny. If it is, upload a .doc or .docx instead.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

KellyHarper said:


> I highly recommend attempting to draft in Scrivener, as well. There are serious advantages to doing this aside from already having the file in Scrivener.
> 
> Here's a screenshot of my binder right now. It might look like a mess, but it's actually very informative of where I'm at in the writing process. It also lets me know what stage each part of my writing is at.
> 
> Some very powerful drafting stuff here, if you look into it. For editing purposes - just export to Word, and then you can use that if you chose.


Word 2013 does this, too. However, it does not compile to ebook, which is a shame.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Word 2013 does this, too. However, it does not compile to ebook, which is a shame.


I didn't know it had a binder similar to Scrivener. Can you post a screenshot or explain how it works in Word?

I'm a recent convert to Scrivener and I LOVE it. It made plotting so much easier. I love the scene breakdowns and project status stuff. Not to mention having research so readily available.


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## Rusty Bigfoot (Jul 6, 2011)

I downloaded a trial of Scrivener, but for the life of me can't get a cover into the mobi complie. The cover is right whre they say to put it (front matter), but it uploads the dummy cover they provide. I've tried everything. It won't let me delete the dummy.

So...is it really true I can just upoad it via Amazon? Someone said Azon won't take a mobi w/o a cover - true or not??


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Rusty Bigfoot said:


> I downloaded a trial of Scrivener, but for the life of me can't get a cover into the mobi complie. The cover is right whre they say to put it (front matter), but it uploads the dummy cover they provide. I've tried everything. It won't let me delete the dummy.
> 
> So...is it really true I can just upoad it via Amazon? Someone said Azon won't take a mobi w/o a cover - true or not??


Don't put the cover in your .mobi. Upload your .mobi to Amazon without the cover and upload the cover separately in the area where Amazon asks you to upload the cover. That's what I did. Worked perfect.

To answer your question though, in the Mac version of Scrivener, when you compile your .mobi file, there is a section called "Cover" or "Book Cover". You select your cover there.

BUT, it's irrelevant. Don't include your cover in the .mobi file. The only time I've included the cover in the .mobi is when I was compiling a version to send to my beta readers.


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## Rusty Bigfoot (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks, Jason. I found that section, but it won't let me select anything. I think maybe the version I have is a bit buggy or I'm doing something wrong. But it's good to know I don't need a cover for the mobi.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Rusty Bigfoot said:


> Thanks, Jason. I found that section, but it won't let me select anything. I think maybe the version I have is a bit buggy or I'm doing something wrong. But it's good to know I don't need a cover for the mobi.


How did you get your cover image into Scrivener?

You have to import the file into Scrivener. Then, it should be available in the "Cover" section of compile. If you just copy and pasted it in, it may not work right. Also, you mentioned having it in the front matter of your book. It shouldn't be. In other words, you shouldn't have the cover as part of your book in the binder. Just import the cover file into the project by going to "File/Import/Files". Then, you should be able to select your cover in your compile settings.


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

Jason Eric Pryor said:


> You'll love it. It was the best $40 I ever spent.


Ditto! Over the last say or so I've been playing with Scrivener's Compile feature - for Kindle/mobi - and previewing it on my Mac through Kindle Previewer. I can honestly say that the quality is there. It is more than robust enough to handle most, if not everything, you might throw at it. Well worth it.

Darren T. Patrick, author of the Rithhek Cage series

@9thChapter (twitter)

darrentpatrick.com


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

Jason Eric Pryor said:


> Don't put the cover in your .mobi. Upload your .mobi to Amazon without the cover and upload the cover separately in the area where Amazon asks you to upload the cover... Don't include your cover in the .mobi file. The only time I've included the cover in the .mobi is when I was compiling a version to send to my beta readers.


Does it come out in higher quality or fill the screen (less white space border) on the kindle if you upload through Amazon rather than during the compile phase? I'm curious as I am going to publishing my series shortly and am keen to know what the difference between the two methods is.

Darren T. Patrick, author of the Rithhek Cage series

@9thChapter (twitter)

darrentpatrick.com


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## Sam Winterwood (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm 100% converted to Scrivener.
I can write in full screen mode without any distractions (Its like I'm not on the computer at all), I can jump between documents with ease, move them all around until my heart is content, have all my research (images mostly) next to what I'm writing, have different draft versions I can access with a single click.

The best thing is the easy compile to mobi. and epub. files.
So easy. Set the files up, compile out, send to Kindle in gmail and its there to read. Like a real ebook.
That last one is the biggest one for me. My ebook is along side all the other great books I have (lots from KBoard members!).
When I got the file on the screen, I nodded, feeling legitimate. Like I was meant to be writing. Weird feeling, but a good one.

TLR?
Just get Scrivener


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## leep (Aug 25, 2011)

S Jaffe said:


> I've been considering Scrivener for awhile. Does the non-Mac version work well or is it really just an option for you Mac users?


I use it on Windows ( with no problems, works well.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Does it come out in higher quality or fill the screen (less white space border) on the kindle if you upload through Amazon rather than during the compile phase? I'm curious as I am going to publishing my series shortly and am keen to know what the difference between the two methods is.


Whatever you upload will replace the cover in your mobi automatically.

Despite this, at least with files converted with Calibre, you will need to have a cover in your mobi or KDP will bounce it back.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> Whatever you upload will replace the cover in your mobi automatically.
> 
> Despite this, at least with files converted with Calibre, you will need to have a cover in your mobi or KDP will bounce it back.


This may be true with Calibre, but not Scrivener. You do not need a cover in your mobi with Scrivener. In fact, I would advise against it.


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## Christine Kersey (Feb 13, 2011)

Someone mentioned that they wished Scrivener had a Thesaurus. I just installed Scrivener 2.0 on my Mac and found that there is now a Thesaurus. Right-click on a word and you choose Writing Tools > Look up in Dictionary and Thesaurus.

Now it is perfect


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## Ashy (Jul 2, 2013)

What about inserting images as section breaks, or doing some tricked out Chapter Title stuff? Does Scrivner let you do that too?

Oh, and for all of the folks asking about more details, the Scrivner website has a TON of awesome, free info: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php

Specifically: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/video.php

HTH!


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## Rusty Bigfoot (Jul 6, 2011)

Good info here:

http://www.atfmb.com/2013/01/14/scrivener-quick-tip-building-an-ebook-part-1/


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

I insert an image as my scene break. I took an image I liked and converted it into a small JPG in Photoshop and then imported it into my project's research folder. Every time I have a scene break, I go to Edit, Insert, Image from File and click on the image I imported and voila it shows up! FYI, I do it within the Editor and not when I compile it.


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## Ashy (Jul 2, 2013)

Magda Alexander said:


> I insert an image as my scene break. I took an image I liked and converted it into a small JPG in Photoshop and then imported it into my project's research folder. Every time I have a scene break, I go to Edit, Insert, Image from File and click on the image I imported and voila it shows up! FYI, I do it within the Editor and not when I compile it.


Awesome - thanks, Magda!


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

Magda Alexander said:


> I insert an image as my scene break. I took an image I liked and converted it into a small JPG in Photoshop and then imported it into my project's research folder. Every time I have a scene break, I go to Edit, Insert, Image from File and click on the image I imported and voila it shows up! FYI, I do it within the Editor and not when I compile it.


Thanks Magda!


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Monique said:


> I didn't know it had a binder similar to Scrivener. Can you post a screenshot or explain how it works in Word?
> 
> I'm a recent convert to Scrivener and I LOVE it. It made plotting so much easier. I love the scene breakdowns and project status stuff. Not to mention having research so readily available.


Here it is. However, Word 2013 does not have a corkboard like Scrivener, nor all the notes that go with it.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Hmm. Took a quick look at Scrivener. Very stripped down. No way to set up an index, although footnotes are there. Doesn't support Paragraph Styles so I can't write something and then say "make it THIS style." (Amazing since they say it can do scripts, I can't imagine why they would leave out the four default styles and make you remember to change those things manually. In Word I have Para.Styles for dialogue, sound effects, descriptions, narration, etc. and just click the one I want when I want it.) Then later if I want to change the style, just change the Paragraph Style and everything affected in the document automatically changes--instead I have to use S&R on formats. Doesn't support Character Styles, so if I decide that I want all the italics to be bold instead, again I have to use S&R instead of a simple "assign this to that." Doesn't APPEAR to let you build your own Table of Contents and link it, so you can't have different sections with their own sub-ToCs (think multiple scripts in a book with the different acts named in each script's ToC and an overall ToC listing just the script names). And their Help Manual does not have an index, so finding things is very difficult unless you already know where to look in the manual. It also reads like something written by someone who knows what the program does and assumes you do, too.

Think I need to stay with MS Word, much as I dislike it.


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## Rusty Bigfoot (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm just lerning Scrivener, and I will say the help menu and manual are pretty presumptive. I know a lot of s/w packages and this may be the most obtuse to learn, but once you do, it's very easy. It has a steep curve, though, at first.

I'm going to continue to create my docs in Pages (Mac) and then cut and past them into Scrivener Chapters. The import doc feature brings in all kinds of weird chars if I use it, so must cut and paste, but that does preserve the format, at least.

But the compile is worth it all, so fast and easy.

Does anyone know how to get rid of the headers in the TOC - I want something that looks like this:

Introduction
1 - blah blah blah
2 - ditto
(on and on)
About the Author

I figured out how to make the TOC prefixes what I want, but not how to eliminate prefixes for some of the Chapters.


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

@Rusty hehe... Agreed on the complexity of the 400pg? PDF manual.  Ugh.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

For those who use Scrivner, this sounds like a great process. Also for those who upload a finished ebook.

I have my own process that gives me a clean .doc file to start the ebook creation process with (Word does terrible things that hide in .doc/.docx files). I distribute through Smashwords and KDP and have yet to have any issues. I'd known about paragraph styles for a long time, but the Smashwords Style guide taught me how to use them. They are invaluable because ebooks are built on html coding and style sheets. The filter html export in Word, exports the paragraph styles and converts them to an html style sheet. Very neat and tidy.

I upload the .doc file to Smashwords and a filtered (and tweaked for page breaks) html export to KDP. Both work great. But I have also experimented with taking that filtered .html and creating an epub with Sigil. There are a couple of prep things to start with. First, develop a standard set of paragraph styles (you will need to call them something besides H1, H2, etc., because Sigil will change them to the default). The first time you will need to change the font size from pts to ems (so the ebook can be scaled) which is easy with search and replace. But if you use the same paragraph styles all the time, you only have to do this once. You import the .html to sigil, strip off the style sheet and make the style sheet a separate document. I used an epub that I downloaded form Smashwords to get the structure just right. I use the built in feature to divide the ebook into sections. The problem with adding a cover with Calibre is that it adds it twice. Following the example of a properly formatted ebook and using Sigil, I end up with a nicely polished epub ebook in roughly half an hour with just a single cover.

I'm lazy so I just stick with uploaded to Smashwords and Amazon and I get a finished ebook even faster and it looks almost as nice. Though I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has successfully created hanging indents with Amazon. I figured out everything else but that.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Doesn't support Paragraph Styles so I can't write something and then say "make it THIS style."


The 2.0/Mac version has styles. However, the entire point is to not style your text in the editor, but instead use the compiler to format it.


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> The 2.0/Mac version has styles. However, the entire point is to not style your text in the editor, but instead use the compiler to format it.


This.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

Katie Elle said:


> The 2.0/Mac version has styles. However, the entire point is to not style your text in the editor, but instead use the compiler to format it.


I have plenty of custom styles setup that I never use. They're definitely there .

And it does support scripting quite nicely. Just turn on script writing mode


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

I am by no means a Scrivener expert. I know how to make it do everything I need it to. I don't get into all the different styles. I keep it simple. I have chapter headers and the first letter of each chapter is large. The crazier you get, the more chance there is for it not to look right on someone's Kindle.

What I've heard from other users is that Scrivener will do a lot of things they didn't think it would at first. You just have to dig in and play with it. That's what I did. I didn't read one word of the user manual. I just messed around with it and figured it out. Also, I have the Mac version. I understand that the Mac version has a few more options than the Windows version.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I don't like Scrivener as a word processor, but I love love love it as a file management system.

Also, I love that Scrivener will compile Markdown into plain, vanilla html.  This means that I can write in any plain text editor with markdown (which mainly means typing in things like _underscores_ around italics, and marking headers with ##).  I can also type it with Markdown directly into Scrivener, or any other word processor.

The HTML file i get out of Scrivener is PLAIN.  I can just copy and paste it into a template, or copy and paste CSS info into it, and I've got a lovely CLEAN html file.  Which will convert beautifully out of Calibre.

Of course, I need to create a TOC and such in the html -- I use Dreamweaver, but I think it can actually be done in markup or with Scrivener tools too.  But I like the ability to control ALL the behind the scenes stuff and make sure the file is very clean.  (Like Paul's grandfather....)

Camille


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> The 2.0/Mac version has styles. However, the entire point is to not style your text in the editor, but instead use the compiler to format it.


Except working with styles is SO much easier. And how does your compiler know when to use the "center this paragraph" style vs regular? And how does it know to use the BOLD style? Or right justify? If I'm setting that up in the document why wait until the compiler?

BTW, saying "it's in the Mac" is not an answer. Looking through the manual revealed absolutely no paragraph styles. As to turning features on/off, first you have to know they exist and second if they aren't mentioned in the manual, then they might as well not exist.

First Axiom of Programming and writing documentation: "If the user can't find the feature, it does not exist."


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

On each document there is a checkbox that reads "Compile As-Is". This can be ticked from the Info bar, or directly on the compile screen.

For someone, such as yourself, that likes to do all of the formatting by hand and then bring it all together, you'll want to use the Compile As-Is checkboxes.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Jason Eric Pryor said:


> What I've heard from other users is that Scrivener will do a lot of things they didn't think it would at first. You just have to dig in and play with it. That's what I did. I didn't read one word of the user manual. I just messed around with it and figured it out. Also, I have the Mac version. I understand that the Mac version has a few more options than the Windows version.


But I'm not going to sift through the program hoping that the feature I want is there. I would rather spend 10-seconds doing the job in MS Word than huntingplaying around for four hours only to find out "you can't do that here." Case in point, indices. How? Not listed in manual, no obvious way to do the job, how do you keep a footnotes separate from the index? Case in point, where are my second and third levels in the Toc? (you know, _*Book 1*_, *Chapter 1*, _December 1211_ -- each on its own line as a separate pointer to text). Looks like the only way to find out is too blindly hope it will work, create a book, and then see if it loos like what I want -- nope, too much time, not gonna do it.


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## George Hamilton (Dec 14, 2010)

I have Scrivener on my laptop, but I have yet to use it, because I organise my writing with OneNote, and I write in word docx, which now converts beautifully to epub as of Calibre version 0.9.39 (the programmers were very quick to tweak a few things after I put in a ticket about some problems). Then I can convert to mobi. I've just posted a blog about how easy it is with Calibre here: Calibre's great conversion of docx into ebooks. I'll look at Scrivener again though, as if I can just use the compiler to convert to all ebook and paperback formats, it may help when there are any post publication changes.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I converted over a year ago - maybe 2 years ago? - when it came out for Windows.

Never looked back.

I got it as a place to put all my short fragments of stories. Now I use it all the time.

I like the fact they upgrade and it's FREE!!

Best $40 I ever spent on software!


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## George Hamilton (Dec 14, 2010)

I tried importing the same docx copy of one of my books which produced a perfect epub in Calibre in 5 minutes into Scrivener. It imports it as a text file. I also imported the cover image. Then I tried to compile as an epub, without doing anything else. All the following problems occurred:
a.	TOC was there, but not in the contents place, and all hyperlinks missing.
b.	All hyperlinks gone.
c.	Formatting all gone – My unindented first paragraphs have all been indented, centred chapter headings now left indented, page breaks gone, etc.
d.	Embedded thumbnail cover images of my other books gone.

I want to continue working in word docx. So if it means I then have to make lots of adjustments in Scrivener to produce the same formatting as I already have in my word docx, which Calibre recognises and applies, then Scrivener is probably not for me.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Except working with styles is SO much easier. And how does your compiler know when to use the "center this paragraph" style vs regular? And how does it know to use the BOLD style? Or right justify? If I'm setting that up in the document why wait until the compiler?​
The reason to wait for the compiler is so you can output multiple versions for different markets. Most of us doing ebooks don't do that a lot, but for people who are submitting to trad publishers, one editor may be old school and require everything to be in courier. Another may want times. Then you may want to knock out a few ebooks for beta readers or a print version in something like Garamond that's easier to read for another. If you use the compiler, you can take a raw document and go to all those formats far easier.

The compiler will let you set up what are essentially separate "styles" for document types. One for titles, another for chapters, another for scenes within a chapter. It does take some time to grok, but it's extremely powerful.

The other real thing is that the real writing tools in Scrivener aren't in the editor, they're in the binder and the ability to monkey around with chapters and scenes as separate items there. Or to have extra note cards for character notes, photos of characters or places, PDFs, web pages, etc.

Many of us find that these things are a lot more useful than the admittedly far superior formatting and search and replace that Word offers. And make no mistake, I am a huge fan of some of Word's options, particularly the amazing search and replace.



> BTW, saying "it's in the Mac" is not an answer. Looking through the manual revealed absolutely no paragraph styles. As to turning features on/off, first you have to know they exist and second if they aren't mentioned in the manual, then they might as well not exist.


If I wasn't being clear, Scrivener was first a Macintosh only program. They later added a word version. The Mac version is 2.0 and the Word version is 1.5 and and it hasn't caught up to the Macintosh version. Text styles for use within the editor are one of those things that are in the Mac version, but not the Word version.


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## Indirectly (Jul 11, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> I highly recommend attempting to draft in Scrivener, as well. There are serious advantages to doing this aside from already having the file in Scrivener.
> 
> Here's a screenshot of my binder right now. It might look like a mess, but it's actually very informative of where I'm at in the writing process. It also lets me know what stage each part of my writing is at.
> 
> Some very powerful drafting stuff here, if you look into it. For editing purposes - just export to Word, and then you can use that if you chose.


Okay, I love Scrivener and my books are set up like yours with a separate folder for each chapter that is filled with individual scenes. But when I went to make a .mobi of it, I got double chapter headings. Then when I figured out how to get rid of those, I ended up losing all my indents. No idea why. I looked for tutorials but all the ones I found use a different set up for their books. Since yours looks like how I do it, do you have any tips or instructions on getting Scrivener to do a clean .mobi or .epub?


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## George Hamilton (Dec 14, 2010)

Katie Elle said:


> The reason to wait for the compiler is so you can output multiple versions for different markets. Most of us doing ebooks don't do that a lot, but for people who are submitting to trad publishers, one editor may be old school and require everything to be in courier. Another may want times. Then you may want to knock out a few ebooks for beta readers or a print version in something like Garamond that's easier to read for another. If you use the compiler, you can take a raw document and go to all those formats far easier.
> 
> The compiler will let you set up what are essentially separate "styles" for document types. One for titles, another for chapters, another for scenes within a chapter. It does take some time to grok, but it's extremely powerful.


This is why I would like to get to grips with Scrivener, even though I can adjust my books for different formats within a few minutes now. If I can't get to grips with Scrivener, then I'll create a couple of Macros to convert my word docx to other formats such as paperback.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

A question for all you Scrivener Gurus out there:

I like that Scrivener gives you the word and character counts in each little text unit, but is there a way to get the word count on the overall project, or within a folder?

Camille


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

daringnovelist said:


> A question for all you Scrivener Gurus out there:
> 
> I like that Scrivener gives you the word and character counts in each little text unit, but is there a way to get the word count on the overall project, or within a folder?
> 
> Camille


Command-Shift-T will bring up the project word count screen. I usually have this set to my current compile group. If you want to get a readout for particular folders you can turn on scrivenings mode and highlight all of those folders to get a count at the bottom of the screen, or you can set them to your compile group which will show up when you bring up the project wordcount screen.

Hope that all makes sense.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

Indirectly said:


> Okay, I love Scrivener and my books are set up like yours with a separate folder for each chapter that is filled with individual scenes. But when I went to make a .mobi of it, I got double chapter headings. Then when I figured out how to get rid of those, I ended up losing all my indents. No idea why. I looked for tutorials but all the ones I found use a different set up for their books. Since yours looks like how I do it, do you have any tips or instructions on getting Scrivener to do a clean .mobi or .epub?


It depends on how you have the various compile features setup (I know that's the obvious answer -- but it's the truth).

Roughly... my Formatting tab looks like this:










I would start here and play around with the settings a bit.

Also -- I STRONGLY advise everyone using Mac Scrivener to pick up this book:

http://www.amazon.com/iBookstore-Smashwords-CreateSpace-Afternoon-ebook/dp/B00AFOMI8S/

I basically follow its advice to get my initial compile arranged. Then, I can go through and tweak things as necessary. There's TONS of good advice in this book--and if you're using Scrivener to format and publish, you NEED to check this out.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

You can get your total word count easily. Look at Kelly's image of the Scrivener binder. You see that all the Chapters are subfolders of the main project called "Draft." Click on Draft and what is in your editor window becomes your total project, every chapter and scene, and the word count on the bottom of the editor window is your total word count. Click on one chapter or scene, and the document in your editor window will be that chapter or scene only and the word count at the bottom will be for only that chapter or scene. I should say that my Scrivener is for Windows, but I bet this feature is the same for Mac.

Even better, IMO, under the Project menu, you find "Project Targets." If you enable this, you get a small floating window you can move anywhere on your screen. I keep mine in the lower right hand corner. This little window has a Draft Target at the top. So say you think your book will be 70,000 words. You set your Draft Target for that, and then as you work, it shows you the total word count of your project completed as say, 7,857 of 70,000. It shows the numbers and also has a progress bar that gives a visual. If you realize your book will be longer or shorter, you can change the target you set. If I knew how to put screenshots in messages, I'd show the window, but I don't and working with graphics with my dial-up internet is a stopper anyway.

On the bottom of the Project Target window is a Session Target where you can do the same thing for your day's word count. The only problem with that one is that if you close the Scrivener program, it loses track and starts from 0 again when you reopen the program even if it's the same day.

This is a lovely program to write in. It's hard to believe anyone uses it only to copy things to and format ebooks, but I know everyone is different in what works for them.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

ellenoc said:


> You can get your total word count easily. Look at Kelly's image of the Scrivener binder. You see that all the Chapters are subfolders of the main project called "Draft." Click on Draft and what is in your editor window becomes your total project, every chapter and scene, and the word count on the bottom of the editor window is your total word count. Click on one chapter or scene, and the document in your editor window will be that chapter or scene only and the word count at the bottom will be for only that chapter or scene. I should say that my Scrivener is for Windows, but I bet this feature is the same for Mac.


Just make sure you have scrivenings mode on -- not index cards or outline.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I know that Scrivener rocks.

I don't use it for eBook creation, though.

But why one would ever want to write in MS Word, and only import it into Scrivener for turning it into an eBook, is a bit of a mystery to me.

Ninety percent of the value I get out of Scrivener (and I'm a recent convert, having only given in and tried it out then bought it this past spring) comes from actually WRITING in it.

The ease with which one can modify and reshape a narrative just makes it vastly superior as a product for writing, when compared to MS Word.

For example, in EMBER, when I was doing my initial draft, I didn't get around to the scene that addresses "what happened to Willow" until nearly 150 pages into the book.

Which is FAR too late since anyone who's read SHADA, that's their number one question... what happened to Willow?

Now that I have EMBER moved into Scrivener, moving the relevant scene to a much earlier position in the story is as easy as a 2-second drag-n-drop operation....

As for eBook creation, I continue to use Adobe InDesign CS6.

Yes, it takes some training to really master InDesign (so does mastering Scrivener, for someone new to that program), but the amount of control and compatibility is simply unmatched. And the plugin Amazon has created for it may work slow compared to exporting an ePub, but I've never had a book come up with issues, either.

(Which I did when I was still using MS Word and the Smashwords process.)

I know some people will swear by Scrivener for eBook outputs, but once you know InDesign, there's just no going backward.

It'd be like asking someone accustomed to an Acura to start driving a Honda Fit or a Toyota Prius. You can do it, but you feel like you're in something... less.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

I tried my hand at using InDesign to make an epub. It isn't for the faint of heart and it is more work than it is worth. I have it on my work computer, but I would rather use just about any way of creating and epub or mobi file because it is so much faster and easier. InDesign wasn't created for ebooks, it was adapted. Ebooks are built around free flowing text coded in a markup language like xml or html. Pages have no meaning other than hard page breaks to start a new section. That's why I won't let Createspace generate my mobi files for Amazon.

I found that the secret to success in Smashwords is having a clean master. I don't have scrivener to try it, but its doc output has to be cleaner that what you get out of Word. I use WordPerfect for all my editing and major formatting (chapters, titles, front matter, back matter, etc) and TextMaker (by SoftMaker out of Germany) for all my ebook style formatting. I've never had a single issue with any of my titles passing through Smashwords. Same with using html for Amazon. My method is a bit complex (typical for me), but it is so much easier than using InDesign it isn't funny. Actually, I've found that the entire Adobe Creative Suite has a high learning curve and is anything but intuitive. Powerful maybe, but just about the hardest software out there to learn. Surprising considering how easy Adobe Acrobat is. (some might point out that WordPerfect is reputed to have a high learning curve, but that was back in the days of DOS and the Windows version hasn't been any harder to learn than Word for nearly 2 decades)


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

RobinBreyer said:


> I don't have scrivener to try it, but its doc output has to be cleaner that what you get out of Word.


I can output directly from Scrivener (Mac) to a Smashwords-Accepted format.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

It really helps if you ask a question to specify Mac or Windows because the programs don't have the same features and the more advanced Mac has a lot of things shifted to different menus.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Well, it looks like setting the compile to include the stuff I want to count, and then doing command-shift-t works just great.  It's exactly what I need.  Thanks to all who answered.

Camille


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> "...one editor may be old school and require everything to be in courier. Another may want times. Then you may want to knock out a few ebooks for beta readers or a print version in something like Garamond that's easier to read for another. If you use the compiler, you can take a raw document and go to all those formats far easier.


Gosh, I can do the exact same thing by simply setting my default font to whatever I want in my paragraph styles.



> The compiler will let you set up what are essentially separate "styles" for document types. One for titles, another for chapters, another for scenes within a chapter. It does take some time to grok, but it's extremely powerful.


Yeah, does sound like the compiler simply duplicates what paragraph styles do. So, why wait until the last step to design a book and then go through multiple iterations before finding what you like? Much easier to change it on-screen, see the difference, try another, repeat until happy, versus "change the compiler, compile, load and look at finished product, change compiler,...." which has far more steps. And I can default the styles so that all future books have these styles available without re-inventing them.



> The other real thing is that the real writing tools in Scrivener aren't in the editor, they're in the binder and the ability to monkey around with chapters and scenes as separate items there. Or to have extra note cards for character notes, photos of characters or places, PDFs, web pages, etc.


Now THAT sounds like an interesting feature set, but the lack of control over the multi-level ToCs (or multiple ToCs in one physical book), indexes, etc., really is a problem for me. Suppose I want to combine three of my books into one, each with it's own ToC, plus a master ToC at the front (I'm talking primarily print here)? And if I do have that, how does Scrivener handle an eBook from the combined file?


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> I can output directly from Scrivener (Mac) to a Smashwords-Accepted format.


I can do the same thing in MS-Word, so no reason to change there (unless the Mac version of MS-Word is very different from the PC version which uses the 2003 version of MS-Word as the basic program for Smashwords)


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

tkepner said:


> I can do the same thing in MS-Word, so no reason to change there (unless the Mac version of MS-Word is very different from the PC version which uses the 2003 version of MS-Word as the basic program for Smashwords)


You'll see that I was simply responding to someone who wasn't sure if Scrivener could output something that was accepted by Smashwords. I was confirming that, at least the Mac version, has no issues with this. Obviously there are other ways of doing it, I did not say or imply that there weren't.

In reading your posts over the last few days, it's apparent that you've got some chip on your shoulder. If you don't like Scrivener -- don't use it. There's no need to berate what it's capable of just because there are alternative methods for achieving the same result that you prefer.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

tkepner said:


> Now THAT sounds like an interesting feature set, but the lack of control over the multi-level ToCs (or multiple ToCs in one physical book), indexes, etc., really is a problem for me. Suppose I want to combine three of my books into one, each with it's own ToC, plus a master ToC at the front (I'm talking primarily print here)? And if I do have that, how does Scrivener handle an eBook from the combined file?


First, you can establish different "Front Matters" to be used for different outputs. For example, I have front matter that goes to Amazon, to non-Amazon (apple, kobo, bn), to Smashwords, and to Print. I mention this because you can setup different TOC's for your example above, and then just choose which you want to use when you compile.

I've found the auto-TOC feature of Scrivener to be useful in only limited ways -- perhaps it's better suited for something other than ebook publishing?

Generally speaking, I manually create a file that is "TOC". It's one of the few pages that I handle completely manually--formatting, styling, etc. Once you have it setup (chapter headings, subheadings, what have you), Scrivener will allow you to "link" (essentially html hyperlinks) the headings to whatever document they correspond to within Scrivener.

It works as you'd think it would work when compiled as an ebook.

You mentioned doing this for printed documents....

I have limited experience formatting for print with Scrivener (I did use it for my last CreateSpace novel -- but there's no TOC). I'm pretty sure that Scrivener can handle auto-generating the page numbers, but will require a little bit of proper setup, first. You can dictate the page sizing, so it will know what the page #'s will be. Then, I'm pretty sure you can link the documents like you did above for an ebook, and the compiler will populate the appropriate page #'s when it is compiled.

This book touches on that very topic, but I skimmed over it since it wasn't applicable to me: http://www.amazon.com/iBookstore-Smashwords-CreateSpace-Afternoon-ebook/dp/B00AFOMI8S


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Yeah, does sound like the compiler simply duplicates what paragraph styles do. So, why wait until the last step to design a book and then go through multiple iterations before finding what you like? Much easier to change it on-screen, see the difference, try another, repeat until happy, versus "change the compiler, compile, load and look at finished product, change compiler,...." which has far more steps. And I can default the styles so that all future books have these styles available without re-inventing them.


If you prefer that, your choice. The point was really that yes, it does have the functionality you're talking about, not even including that the 2.0 version has styles in the editor section.

The real reason to use it is first and foremost the binder and the various writers tools available there and secondly the automatic creation of ebooks.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

I think the most important aspect of Scrivener is on the editing side of things. The ability to juggle scenes and chapters easily is a godsend to people who want to do that. Writers who don't do that, like me, don't find it particularly useful, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend it. I just need to try it first. I have some things that aren't fictional prose that it might be good for, I'm just not working on those project right now to impel me to try it. For the different front matter and such, WordPerfect's master documents does much the same thing, allowing me to create slightly different formats for my editing copies, ebook master, and print master. Scrivener sounds like any good program - a few things to learn up front, but once you find what works for you it is a piece of cake.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

To be honest I thought Scriv was going to be a godsend for cross formatting to epub, mobi and print in one hit. Tried it today and found the lack of Table of Contents control to be limiting. It doesn't style properly, plain vanilla html. It meant that if I want to put in anything other than title page followed by chapter one or a poorly formatted intro/dedication page I couldn't do it. Same for endnotes. They're missing a trick really, it looks and behaves like Sigil but without the functionality. And ebooks are one of the biggest growth markets. 

I might give it a chance for writing though


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I realize telling people that "that's because you're not doing it right" is kind of a hard sell, but I haven't seen anything here really that you can't do in Scrivener. The problem, I think, is that it's not a Word Processor. Pretty much everything since MacWrite in the 80s has worked exactly the same in terms of how you do word processing. People expect Scrivener to be the same.

I see some of the same issues when people switch from a Word Processor to a Page Layout program like in-design. They want it to just be another word processor, but it isn't. It's not just learning where items are on the menus, it's learning a whole different paradigm.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Katie Elle said:


> I realize telling people that "that's because you're not doing it right" is kind of a hard sell, but I haven't seen anything here really that you can't do in Scrivener. The problem, I think, is that it's not a Word Processor. Pretty much everything since MacWrite in the 80s has worked exactly the same in terms of how you do word processing. People expect Scrivener to be the same.
> 
> I see some of the same issues when people switch from a Word Processor to a Page Layout program like in-design. They want it to just be another word processor, but it isn't. It's not just learning where items are on the menus, it's learning a whole different paradigm.


Yep. Exactly. As a word processor, Scrivener is adequate. It is, however, much more robust in its focus on publishing. It's a better tool for everything except for the writing part.

IMHO, most word processors are not very good for the writing part either. They are too bloated, and make too much attempt to be everything to all people, and do none of these "extra" things very well.

(The irony is that I find Scrivener to be a little bloated too -- in that it's a great organization tool, if you completely ignore its overdone organization features.)

Camille


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

There I'd disagree. I think it's great for the writing part because it gets you away from distractions on one side and it lets you organize and manipulate your writing (scenes, the index cards, notes, etc) on the other.

The full screen mode with no distractions is utterly fantastic for writing. No formatting. No nothing. Just writing.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Katie Elle said:


> There I'd disagree. I think it's great for the writing part because it gets you away from distractions on one side and it lets you organize and manipulate your writing (scenes, the index cards, notes, etc) on the other.
> 
> The full screen mode with no distractions is utterly fantastic for writing. No formatting. No nothing. Just writing.


LOL.

I actually consider Scrivener AWFUL for writing in. The irony I was pointing out is that it is _great_ for outlining -- but it's great only when you actually ignore the over-designed outlining tools and just use the binder.

I do not use Scrivener for writing. It's adequate when I'm in it, and need to write a bit, but I use a plain text editor for writing. Scrivener is really wonderful for how it handles plain text and markdown, in and out.

Camille


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

FrankColes said:


> To be honest I thought Scriv was going to be a godsend for cross formatting to epub, mobi and print in one hit. Tried it today and found the lack of Table of Contents control to be limiting. It doesn't style properly, plain vanilla html. It meant that if I want to put in anything other than title page followed by chapter one or a poorly formatted intro/dedication page I couldn't do it. Same for endnotes. They're missing a trick really, it looks and behaves like Sigil but without the functionality. And ebooks are one of the biggest growth markets.
> 
> I might give it a chance for writing though


The auto-generated TOC leaves some to be desired, but what can you expect when it does it for you?

That said, you can create your own TOC and build the links yourself. It's incredibly easy.

I haven't looked into creating an index, though I think I've seen that it can handle this as well.



daringnovelist said:


> I do not use Scrivener for writing. It's adequate when I'm in it, and need to write a bit, but I use a plain text editor for writing. Scrivener is really wonderful for how it handles plain text and markdown, in and out.
> 
> Camille


I love plain text editors for writing, too. I love to get everything on my desktop out of the way so I can focus on just what I'm writing.

That said, I've customized my "Full Screen Mode" in Scrivener to be just a plain black screen with green text going down the middle in a font and size that's comfortable to read. When I enter this mode--that's the only thing on my desktop. It doesn't show me word count, it doesn't highlight spelling or grammar, it just lets me write.

Is there something else that you find appealing about plain editors for writing? Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're looking for.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

daringnovelist said:


> I actually consider Scrivener AWFUL for writing in. The irony I was pointing out is that it is _great_ for outlining -- but it's great only when you actually ignore the over-designed outlining tools and just use the binder.


Everybody's different. I don't know if I use the tools you consider over-designed or not, but after producing my first 4 books out of a disorganized heap of papers, I find Scrivener wonderful. I used to print my outline, scribble over it until it was almost incomprehensible, then revise and reprint the thing and start the messy process all over, but needed it sitting at hand as I wrote. Same for a character list and all sorts of other bits. Now all that goes in Scrivener, gets revised there, and doesn't get lost, coffee spilled on it, accidentally thrown out in a cleaning fit, etc.

For some reason I find I need to use a familiar outline feature to start, so I sketch out my story in the Outliner. Once I get writing, however, the fact what I've put in the Outliner shows up in the Synopsis feature of the Inspector as if it's a note card keeps me from needing that printed piece of paper at hand, and I can revise it there. For another reason I don't understand, revising the outline and moving things around is easier in the Corkboard view.

The few words available in the Binder titles just don't do it for me, although they're helpful. But then writing in a plain text editor holds no allure for me whatsoever. I suppose I could do it if I had to, but I don't want to. I've tried the full screen mode in Scrivener and don't like it either. Probably because of years of using word processors with all the surrounding junk, I'm actually more comfortable with menus and icons on top, Binder to the left, Inspector to the right, and Editor in the middle.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> I see some of the same issues when people switch from a Word Processor to a Page Layout program like in-design.


You hit the nail on the head for why I think InDesign is horrible for creating an ebook. It was designed for print projects and ebooks are closer to websites than print books. Two totally different layout models and design mindsets. For printing, you need to see on your screen exactly where each character is going to print. For ebooks, that is irrelevant. All you need is flowing text, indents, scene breaks, chapter breaks, chapter headers, and the surrounding matter. InDesign is too fixed to page layout. If you are going to write in one program, and do the layout in another, you might as well pick something designed for the end product you are after.

I don't think Scrivener is probably the best for formatting advanced ebooks, but most people keep things simple and it might help produce better formatted ones than a lot of the ones I've seen on Amazon. I intend to check it out.

As far as what I think makes a good writing platform, it is anything where you can turn off the spelling and grammar "as-you-go" checking and anything that won't harass you with formatting issues and just let you write. The only things that should matter are being able to select the font attributes (italic, bold, & underline). I wrote my first novel in Mircrosoft Works. Now I use TextMaker. It is light, easy, free of distractions. Anything I use has to be black text on white or cream background. Scrivener looks like it would work, but I doubt I will break my habits at this point.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

RobinBreyer said:


> You hit the nail on the head for why I think InDesign is horrible for creating an ebook. It was designed for print projects and ebooks are closer to websites than print books. Two totally different layout models and design mindsets. For printing, you need to see on your screen exactly where each character is going to print. For ebooks, that is irrelevant. All you need is flowing text, indents, scene breaks, chapter breaks, chapter headers, and the surrounding matter. InDesign is too fixed to page layout. If you are going to write in one program, and do the layout in another, you might as well pick something designed for the end product you are after.
> 
> I don't think Scrivener is probably the best for formatting advanced ebooks, but most people keep things simple and it might help produce better formatted ones than a lot of the ones I've seen on Amazon. I intend to check it out.
> 
> As far as what I think makes a good writing platform, it is anything where you can turn off the spelling and grammar "as-you-go" checking and anything that won't harass you with formatting issues and just let you write. The only things that should matter are being able to select the font attributes (italic, bold, & underline). I wrote my first novel in Mircrosoft Works. Now I use TextMaker. It is light, easy, free of distractions. Anything I use has to be black text on white or cream background. Scrivener looks like it would work, but I doubt I will break my habits at this point.


Thanks for your post!

For the record -- you can set Scrivener to do exactly what you're looking for, and it's *very* easy to do. If you ever want to give it a try, let me know and I'll send you a few screenshots of where the options are.

Curious-- do you have an example of an ebook that you would consider to have an "advanced" layout? Would love to have something as a reference in case I want to go back and much around with some of my compile settings.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

KellyHarper said:


> Is there something else that you find appealing about plain editors for writing? Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're looking for.


Here's the thing: I hate full screen mode. It doesn't simplify. It gets in my way. I want access to everything I need while writing. I don't have a problem with distraction.

Why I like text editors is that they do not put any kind of hidden junk in your file. Aside from the encoding, it is working in TEXT ONLY and not burying meta data crap all over the place. When I want to format, I want to format in a program that is actually designed for formatting! Like InDesign or Dreamweaver.

I like the fact that I can set the display to Comic Sans 14 pt (which is the easiest font on the eyes when I have a migraine) and not have to worry that the freaking word processor is embedding that font, and that my migraine addled mind has to strip it out manually.

What I like about Scrivener is that it's a fantastic file manager for a project. I can put in all the research and all the snippets as text "cards" within the body of the document (and I don't have to use their crappy, overwrought organizing system), and yet have them treated as if they are separate documents. I can order and reorder them without changing their names. I can put stuff I don't want to see in a "folder" within the doc. It's perfect for outlining that way -- really like a stack of 3x5 cards, but each card has infinite space.

I love Scrivener for outlining that way. And now that I know it exports beautifully clean html from Markdown text, I use it a lot more for actual word processing. (I mostly write in a text editor on various devices, but I'll copy and paste the rough material into Scrivener - then edit there. Still working as if it's a plain text editor. No styling, just Markdown.)

I can compile from Scrivener into whatever formats I need, and do the styling with the tools that are the best. (HTML from Markdown is a dream. Haven't decided how I'm going to handle InDesign files yet.)

Camille


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> LOL.
> 
> I actually consider Scrivener AWFUL for writing in. The irony I was pointing out is that it is _great_ for outlining -- but it's great only when you actually ignore the over-designed outlining tools and just use the binder.
> 
> ...


To each their own, of course, Camille, but I've had a different experience with Scrivener (for PC here) than you have.

Now, keep in mind, I was extremely resistant to Scrivener for the better part of the last two years. Those who used it, oversold it, which brought out the rebel in me. I used FocusWriter for most of that time, because Word annoyed me.

Finally, when the program went on sale for half off this spring, I was willing to try it for $20.

Scrivener has a huge learning curve because it IS a different paradigm, I can agree with that. I was overwhelmed by it at first and it took writing in it for about six weeks to finally adapt and figure out what worked for me and what I needed to ignore.

Having used FocusWriter as long as I did, the Distraction-Free mode is very familiar to me, and makes me feel "at home." But Scrivener's version still has the more advanced formatting tools available (though unobtrusive) even in that mode, so it's more convenient in a way.

I had switched to FocusWriter after ages of using Microsoft Word and feeling like I had to use it because it was so standardized across the industry.

But I can now honestly say that, after taking a week to really learn what Scrivener is and how it works, and then another five weeks to adapt the program to MY comfort level and working style, I am now a complete convert to the Scrivener program.

I enjoy writing long pieces of fiction by breaking them down into scenes. It does make revision and restructuring less labor-intensive.

And I like the idea of having a place to keep track of your character notes, research notes, etc., handy without switching programs or having a pile of yellow pads next to you to page through, is very convenient.

I now have four or five projects in various stages of development in Scrivener. One of which was a pen-name project that I finished and released in recent weeks.

I didn't use Scrivener to generate the eBook, though. I took time learning how to properly output/export in Scrivener, then sent that work to an .rtf file that ported into both Word and InDesign perfectly.

I didn't need that project in Word, but sent it directly to InDesign for formatting, final editing, and ePublishing. Very smooth process, and an improvement over what I did when composing EyeCU in FocusWriter and porting it into Word. (I had avoided even applying italics in FocusWriter, so after importing it into Word, I had to re-read every sentence just to get my italics in where I wanted it... never again! Too time-intensive.)

So, while your mileage obviously varies, I find Scrivener to be the best tool for WRITING functions that I've ever used... and I've tried others that never passed the smell test with me, so I never did any lengthy, or serious, projects in them.

The tools for publishing to eFormats in Scrivener are likely adequate for some, and relatively simple, I guess. I prefer InDesign for that, though. Personal preference.

If I never had to send a manuscript to others, I could almost uninstall MS Word. But I won't; I just won't upgrade Office anytime soon. The $99 isn't worth it at this point, for me.

Because I do sometimes need to send manuscripts to editors or beta-readers or whatnot, so outputting to Word-compatible .rtf, and then opening it in Word when they send me their feedback-filled files, is necessary.

But in terms of word processing needs, I could easily and comfortably exist with only Scrivener as my sole word processor, so long as I could retain InDesign for formatting.  Scrivener has permanently moved me away from FocusWriter, and I could easily make do without MS Word if I never needed to file-share with others.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

RobinBreyer said:


> You hit the nail on the head for why I think InDesign is horrible for creating an ebook. It was designed for print projects and ebooks are closer to websites than print books.


The thing is that InDesign *could *easily create eBooks if they simply implemented things correctly. For example, I have around 100 books in InDesign. To make them into eBooks InDesign wants me to manually copy each chapter to a "new" InDesign book and work from there, which is just BS.

Instead I take a few minutes and link the text boxes (copyright page, Book Title Page, Frontispiece, ToC, etc.) of a book in InDesign to make one giant long document of text, then output that as an rtf file. I import that file into MS-Word and spend a few minutes fixing things (reducing font sizes, setting line spacing to "single" instead of 1.2 and "exactly at..."), inserting my illustrations at the proper places in the text, linking Chapter Heads to the ToC, and then export the finished document to Smashwords and to Amazon. Except for the sending to Smashwords and Amazon, all these things *could *be done by InDesign, but are not. The ebooks I get from InDesign have text blocks out of order, illustrations randomly placed, and would take hours to fix.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

tkepner said:


> The thing is that InDesign *could *easily create eBooks if they simply implemented things correctly. For example, I have around 100 books in InDesign. To make them into eBooks InDesign wants me to manually copy each chapter to a "new" InDesign book and work from there, which is just BS.


Umm, I hate to say it, but you're not using InDesign correctly if you think that's "required" by InDesign for creating eBooks.

I have a side-job/day-job where I format books (both print and e) every day. I have formatted over 300 titles in the last couple years.

We have developed a highly customized InDesign template that, with a few minor alterations depending on the target format, I can use to output .mobi files (using Amazon's Kindle Plug-In for InDesign), .epub (natively supported and lightning-fast), or print (PDF format).

No multiple InDesign "books" needed, ever. Just one .indd file, and primarily using a single, ongoing text frame throughout the document, whether it's a single short story, or a 120-chapter epic novel.

The customizations are mostly centered around making the formatting consistent through the use of styles.

You're either using a very early version of InDesign (I use CS6), or you've been mistrained on it.


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## Ashy (Jul 2, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Umm, I hate to say it, but you're not using InDesign correctly if you think that's "required" by InDesign for creating eBooks.
> 
> I have a side-job/day-job where I format books (both print and e) every day. I have formatted over 300 titles in the last couple years.
> 
> ...


Yup...InDesign templates, when setup properly, are very powerful and flexible. I've designed entire print and pdf games based on InDesign templates.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Craig:

I think you misunderstand what I like and hate about Scrivener.

Read my response to Kelly Harper that begins "Here's the thing." -- I use it for all the organizational tasks you do. It's a KILLER organizational tool. However, all those specialized bells and whistles for organizing are completely unnecessary. The binder itself works brilliantly for all that. I love the export functions (or at least the compile functions).

Scrivener is an essential tool, imho, for ebook _publishing_. And most likely it's incredible for writing non-fiction. But for the getting down of words in fiction? It's meh. It's got way more power than you need -- like writing in InDesign.

Camille


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

Or save a step and write in Scrivener.


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

FrankColes said:


> Tried it today and found the lack of Table of Contents control to be limiting. It doesn't style properly, plain vanilla html.


You have tons of control over your Table of Contents. You create a separate page, highlight the documents you want in binder and copy them as links. Then simply paste the links into your page. You can then arrange them however you like, then highlight them again, go to format and "preserve formatting." There are endless possibilities. And you can put the TOC in front or back or the middle, if you're so inclined.


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

I think anyone who suggests that Scrivener is not good as a word processor hasn't been paying attention. It's a word processor on steroids, in my estimation. And I love that I can navigate to any place in my story with one simple click. I've spent thirty years using word processors and Scrivener is by far the best I've ever used.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Craig:
> 
> I think you misunderstand what I like and hate about Scrivener.


Highly possible. I am, fatally, human. 



daringnovelist said:


> Read my response to Kelly Harper that begins "Here's the thing." -- I use it for all the organizational tasks you do. It's a KILLER organizational tool. However, all those specialized bells and whistles for organizing are completely unnecessary. The binder itself works brilliantly for all that. I love the export functions (or at least the compile functions).


I have fewer needs for organizational tools than nonfiction writers. Switching to Scrivener did allow me to discontinue my reliance on half-sized yellow legal pads, however. Which is green...ish.



daringnovelist said:


> Scrivener is an essential tool, imho, for ebook _publishing_. And most likely it's incredible for writing non-fiction. But for the getting down of words in fiction? It's meh. It's got way more power than you need -- like writing in InDesign.
> 
> Camille


Camille,

That's where your mileage and mine vary. Which is fine and fair.

I've noticed my productivity tick upward since switching, primarily because I write in the distraction-free mode. I ignore whatever tools I don't need for a given task. The distraction-free mode helps with that.

Your misgivings after using Scrivener are similar to the misgivings I had before I used Scrivener. I just decided to tame the program to my writing style, rather than changing my writing style to match the program.  So, it works for me, quite well.

It doesn't for you, for the purpose of getting words on paper, and that's fine, too.

To each their own.

After all, one of the biggest turn-offs to me before I started using Scrivener was how many of its users treated it like a holy Torah scroll and oversold the program's utility.

It's a tool. One I find useful. Others can have different impressions of its utility for their working style.  Simple.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I didn't even know Scrivener had outlining options past the binder. Lol. And yeah, more than enough for me.

On the other side, on what Scrivener can do, Mac writers should look at the limitations of Win Scrivener.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Katie Elle said:


> On the other side, on what Scrivener can do, Mac writers should look at the limitations of Win Scrivener.


Those differences are dwindling with each update, to be fair. (Speaking as a Scrivener for PC user.)


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Umm, I hate to say it, but you're not using InDesign correctly if you think that's "required" by InDesign for creating eBooks.
> 
> You're either using a very early version of InDesign (I use CS6), or you've been mistrained on it.


Training? What training? Everything I know was what I discovered/read on my own.

I'm currently using InDesign 5.0, and I can only go by what the Help Desks have given me as answers at Adobe. The last time I looked, when 5.5 was just out, I was told to just export the document in page order and everything would be fine. What I got was crap. The first two illustrations were in the proper place, but the rest were thrown to the end of the book. The ToC wasn't linked, the List of Illustrations wasn't linked, and not all the illustrations were in the book. Without any further information from Adobe, I dropped it as a bad idea. I was really unhappy that all my carefully created bookmarks for the ToC and Indexes just "disappeared" from my eBook.

Yep, just did it again on a short 20-page book. The eBook stops half-way through, leaving out the rest of the text and illustrations. Plus the centering for the illustrations was lost.

I see now that there appear to be more materials on how to do it, maybe I'll spend some time exploring them.

And I use paragraph/word styles exclusively in InDesign.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

tkepner said:


> Training? What training? Everything I know was what I discovered/read on my own.
> 
> I'm currently using InDesign 5.0, and I can only go by what the Help Desks have given me as answers at Adobe. The last time I looked, when 5.5 was just out, I was told to just export the document in page order and everything would be fine. What I got was crap. The first two illustrations were in the proper place, but the rest were thrown to the end of the book. The ToC wasn't linked, the List of Illustrations wasn't linked, and not all the illustrations were in the book. Without any further information from Adobe, I dropped it as a bad idea. I was really unhappy that all my carefully created bookmarks for the ToC and Indexes just "disappeared" from my eBook.
> 
> ...


Then it appears to be a problem with, perhaps, the limitations of earlier versions.

CS6 really has it down smooth. If I were still formatting in MS Word using the Smashwords methodology, there's no way I'd have formatted 300+ books in two years.

I switched to CS6 about a year ago, almost immediately after its release. The template took a couple months to develop and time here and there ever since to refine.

At the time I stopped using MS Word for formatting, I'd been formatting books for about 14 months and completed around 140 jobs.

In the 10 months since the switch, I've formatted over 160+ of those 300+ jobs. It's almost doubled my productivity.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> CS6 really has it down smooth. If I were still formatting in MS Word using the Smashwords methodology, there's no way I'd have formatted 300+ books in two years.


Seriously? I can format a 300+ page book in MS-Word for Smashwords in under a day. If it's ready for Smashwords, I can do a Kindle in ten minutes. And vice versa.

Based on my experience with 5.0 and 5.5, I was very leery of wasting more money on a product that over-promised and under-delivered.

How does 6 make it easier? I'm already using Paragraph and Word Styles, and linking the text to make a single file is only a few minutes work. Does it keep the ToC links to the pages? I've noticed with the Kindle Touch that if you have a ToC link to a chapter title, the title loses formatting (i.e., no longer bolded or no longer centered). My fix has been to link the ToC to a blank line immediately BEFORE the actual chapter text and its formatting in Word. How do you handle keeping captions with the illustrations they belong under? And how do you center them? Do you force the illustrations/pictures into the text, because up to now I've been placing illustrations as separate items on the page?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Robert Gregory Browne said:


> Or save a step and write in Scrivener.


But that's just it, it doesn't save a step. How I write is a lot more fluid than "sit at computer and write."

What so many people seem to be missing here is that they found Scrivener to be a solution to a problem they had. But not everybody has a problem, and insisting that they break their workflow to accommodate a piece of software you happen to be in love with is ridiculous.

Don't ever assume you know what anybody else's issues are. So you didn't think you'd like it either -- so what? What makes you think that other people are exactly like you? What makes you think that others haven't actually worked with it extensively before making up their minds?

Which takes me back to Craig's answer:



CraigInTwinCities said:


> Your misgivings after using Scrivener are similar to the misgivings I had before I used Scrivener. I just decided to tame the program to my writing style, rather than changing my writing style to match the program.  So, it works for me, quite well.


Mine aren't misgivings. As you pointed out, you had misgiving before you tried it. My opinion is formed from using Scrivener reasonably intensively and finding out what it is best for in my work flow. I am very happy with how I use it.

It's like Photoshop and Illustrator and Painter -- three graphics applications. I have used all three for years (actually, decades) and I like all three, but for my main personal art, I use Photoshop -- even though Illustrator is more suited to the clean lines of the kind of work I do, and Painter is better for "painting." But the way I create visually is more suited the to the limited brushes that Photoshop has than to the vector tools that Illustrator has, or the really cool advanced tools that Painter has. When I need those other tools, I use them.

Camille


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Camille, you quoted me considerably out of context to make it sound like I wasn't being very accommodating to Scrivener not being the answer for you. I was. Why are you looking to extend that into a debate? Reread my last post. You'll see I was not debating you. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk HD


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

I've been using Scrivener for Windows for about a year now and love it for composition and organization. I've read through and followed N.R. Wick's _Beautiful Ebooks With Scrivener_, and I still struggle with TOCs, but that's not my real problem. I'm finding that my EPUB compiles completely spew when run through the new EPUBCHECK, and that failure is now keeping them out of Smashwords Premium and D2D/B&N. David Adams was kind enough to look over my EPUB, and even he, wonder-geek that he is, could only throw up his hands and wish me luck. Googling hasn't shown much help yet. Has anyone else run into this?


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

williamvw said:


> I've been using Scrivener for Windows for about a year now and love it for composition and organization. I've read through and followed N.R. Wick's _Beautiful Ebooks With Scrivener_, and I still struggle with TOCs, but that's not my real problem. I'm finding that my EPUB compiles completely spew when run through the new EPUBCHECK, and that failure is now keeping them out of Smashwords Premium and D2D/B&N. David Adams was kind enough to look over my EPUB, and even he, wonder-geek that he is, could only throw up his hands and wish me luck. Googling hasn't shown much help yet. Has anyone else run into this?


I've heard rumor (which can probably be confirmed on their site) that Scrivener folks are aware of this problem and have already fixed it... the catch is... it won't be released until their next official update. They're not pushing an update just to fix this problem.

That's what I've read elsewhere. Not sure if true.


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

daringnovelist said:


> But not everybody has a problem, and insisting that they break their workflow to accommodate a piece of software you happen to be in love with is ridiculous.


Touchy at all? Relax. It was a suggestion.

I've been working with word processors for decades and Scrivener is far and away the best word processor I've ever worked with. I see no reason to bother writing in Word then importing it to Scrivener when Scrivener does everything Word can and more.

But to each his own. Again, it was only a suggestion. I don't quite get your hostility. Life's too short for it.


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

KellyHarper said:


> I've heard rumor (which can probably be confirmed on their site) that Scrivener folks are aware of this problem and have already fixed it... the catch is... it won't be released until their next official update. They're not pushing an update just to fix this problem.


Hmm, not seeing it in the L&L forums right off the bat, but it seems to be a pretty huge deal brought on by the most recent EPUBCHECK update. Fingers crossed that you're right (or at least prescient)...


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I reported the epub bug and was told it had been fixed on the Mac platform with a followup that it had been fixed on the Windows platform, but that in both cases they wouldn't be releasing a fix until the next version.

I love a lot of things about Scrivener, but L&L's cavalier attitude towards ebook problems isn't one of them. They just basically don't "get it."

FWIW import your epub into Calibre, convert epub to mobi, then convert mobi to epub and see how it looks to you. That should pass epub check. There are some instructions floating around on how to do it manually.


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## JRWoodward (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm planning to go to Mac Scrivener when I get paid next. I think I'll need to buy it twice: for my desktop and laptop. Looking forward to the iPad / iPhone versions, too.

[Denies being Apple "fanboy."] [Goes off to prepare lunch: mac and cheese. An apple for dessert.]

Does anyone know how well Scrivener works with Dragon Dictate? I am trying to get into Dragon because I have an old wrist injury and diabetes; both of them make carpal tunnel syndrome extra-difficult. A semi-retired professor I know slightly saw me working on my iPad once in a coffee shop and told me he had just bought one. "Is it really suitable for serious writing?" I said, well I wrote 100,000 words of my novel on the iPad, because that was easier on my wrist than a conventional keyboard.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

JRWoodward said:


> Does anyone know how well Scrivener works with Dragon Dictate? I am trying to get into Dragon because I have an old wrist injury and diabetes; both of them make carpal tunnel syndrome extra-difficult.


System 10 macs come with speech-to-text capability built in! My brain is still in system 6, though, so don't ask me how to activate it, LOL! Anyway, the built-in speech-to-text capability should work in every application.

Here, maybe this will help:
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-20123699-285/how-to-turn-on-and-use-mac-speech-commands/


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> I'm planning to go to Mac Scrivener when I get paid next. I think I'll need to buy it twice: for my desktop and laptop. Looking forward to the iPad / iPhone versions, too.


You need to buy the Mac and Windows versions separately, but they have very liberal policies on installing on different devices.


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

JRWoodward said:


> I'm planning to go to Mac Scrivener when I get paid next. I think I'll need to buy it twice: for my desktop and laptop. Looking forward to the iPad / iPhone versions, too.


I believe the license is per user, not per machine. So you can install it on as many clients as you like. I think I'm up to four now.


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

Katie Elle said:


> FWIW import your epub into Calibre, convert epub to mobi, then convert mobi to epub and see how it looks to you. That should pass epub check. There are some instructions floating around on how to do it manually.


Outstanding! I'll try this ASAP. Thanks so much for the tip, Katie!


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

williamvw said:


> I believe the license is per user, not per machine. So you can install it on as many clients as you like. I think I'm up to four now.


 Yeah, I've got it on my iMac and my Macbook Pro, just bought one copy. In fact, I bought it when it was on sale for half off.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

Robert Gregory Browne said:


> You have tons of control over your Table of Contents. You create a separate page, highlight the documents you want in binder and copy them as links. Then simply paste the links into your page. You can then arrange them however you like, then highlight them again, go to format and "preserve formatting." There are endless possibilities. And you can put the TOC in front or back or the middle, if you're so inclined.


How exactly? I tried this after reading your post in the Windows version. I did the following. Set up a separate page called ToC, highlighted docs in binder, and tried to copy them. I couldn't. All copy options were greyed out and keyboard shortcuts don't work. Ditto if I did same using a file.

The logic makes sense, at the code level all that is happening is you make a marker ID for the location of the link and then provide the reference to it in the ToC, same as in any html doc. I can't find anything that allows me to copy links.

I have hacked a work through though, here's my quick and dirty guide to creating an ebook in scriv in ten easy steps: http://www.frankcoles.com/writing/the-quick-dirty-guide-formatting-ebooks-scrivener-epub-mobi-createspace/#.UfDqK40px8E

You can save it as an epub and sort out the ToC and add some CSS styles in Sigil tho, I'll add that as a tutorial later on.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

tkepner said:


> Seriously? I can format a 300+ page book in MS-Word for Smashwords in under a day. If it's ready for Smashwords, I can do a Kindle in ten minutes. And vice versa.


I'm a fast formatter. I'm also a careful one and do a lot of double-checking to make sure everything's right. "Doubled my productivity" might be slightly off; I did 140 books in about 15 months before switching to InDesign. The books I get in for design can vary from small, 200-page ditties to books that top 200,000 words.

In MS Word, how many chapters a book had mattered a lot more than how many pages it consisted of, because a lot of the effort was in building out the TOC properly for eBook/Smashwords. But basically, there were about 320 work days in that 15 months, and I averaged about 1 book every 2.3 days, though admittedly a LOT of that was due to longer, more complex books (nonfiction, stuff with photos, etc) sometimes taking 3-4 days, and then doing a couple simpler jobs per day after finishing off a behemoth book project. (I fortunately never had to format a foreign language Bible, but a job like that did come through and a formatter who is very fast labored on that monster project for weeks and weeks... even WITH InDesign.

So not all the books I dealt with were quick, simple, text-only fiction. That tosses the numbers around a LOT.

After switching to InDesign, over the past 10 months, I've formatted 160+ jobs. Let's say 165 for right now.

In that time period, there are roughly 214 working days, and I've taken 1.29 days per job. Again, that's allowing for longer, more complex jobs that take 2-3 days (still quicker than MS Word) while at other times, I'll get sometimes 2 jobs a day done.

If going from 2.3 days per job down to 1.29 days per job doesn't sound impressive, consider the following factors:

1) Most books I get in must be done in both Print and eBook formats.

2) We output to five different eBook formats at this time. (Apple, Kindle, Kobo, Nook, and Smashwords .epub)

3) I'm including the time it takes to "pass the proofs back-n-forth between clients and us," which sometimes goes very quickly and smoothly... and other times can result in clients who decide to start proofreading only AFTER formatting, or decide to purchase editing after starting formatting, or whatnot... The most involved jobs I've had have gone back-n-forth as many as 18 times, before an author finally decided, "Okay, I'm done, I'm gonna publish now, I'll stop revising you to death.") 

Each "revision" is a new output. If it's eBook, it can be as many as five new outputs per revision, though we try to hold off on outputting to all five outputs until the very last revision...but sometimes clients change there mind even after that.

So, these are pure productivity numbers with all these factors added in. Considering how some jobs can get delayed due to client revisions, as well as the fact that there are as many as six outputs to create (to four different formatting standards) per job... going down from 2.3 days per job to 1.29 days per job... a gain of a whole day per job... is nothing to sneeze at.

(There are clients I've had who have... more than once in the same job... submitted 50-100 "changes" per revision. All of which takes time and bloats how how long per project each project takes.)

Basically, we automate anything we can to save and shave time off our average... in ways the MS Word/Smashwords method just would not allow, making it more labor-intensive. Making clients happy is far more complex and unpredictable than formatting your own book for yourself. 



tkepner said:


> Based on my experience with 5.0 and 5.5, I was very leery of wasting more money on a product that over-promised and under-delivered.


Understandable, but the product is much more refined now than it was then. Plus, CS7 is just around the corner, though I think Adobe may stop selling standalone software and force everyone into Creative Cloud Suite now...



tkepner said:


> How does 6 make it easier? I'm already using Paragraph and Word Styles, and linking the text to make a single file is only a few minutes work. Does it keep the ToC links to the pages? I've noticed with the Kindle Touch that if you have a ToC link to a chapter title, the title loses formatting (i.e., no longer bolded or no longer centered). My fix has been to link the ToC to a blank line immediately BEFORE the actual chapter text and its formatting in Word. How do you handle keeping captions with the illustrations they belong under? And how do you center them? Do you force the illustrations/pictures into the text, because up to now I've been placing illustrations as separate items on the page?


Well, look... obviously I'm not going to reveal all our solutions that we've utilized in our custom template here. We're a business and the template we've poured hours into developing is part of our company IP.

But in terms of generating TOCs, it's now as simple as applying a Chapter Heading style (and a Section Heading style, if necessary, or a subheading style, if needed) and the rest is pretty automated for us. Plus it gives us the option of doing a single-level flat TOC, or doing a multi-level, indented TOC. Pretty nifty. You just apply the styles to the chapters and double-check your work by hitting "refresh TOC" when necessary, and all that labor just vanishes. Because of the way we've set up our customized template.

I can tell you that with our custom template, there's obviously no need to put every chapter into a separate "book" in InDesign, or anything else that complex and weird.

I can tell you that with a single template, in a single document, with a single ongoing text frame... I can create an InDesign document that will output seamlessly to Kindle, then with the running of three macros (GREP code/find-replace functions) for ePub compatibility, I can output for three of our four .ePub formats, and then for Smashwords, I make adjustments to two styles (basically to downsize chapter headers and such) and I can output to Smashwords .ePub, as well.

Then, with about an hour or two's worth of extra work, I can take that same document and add in some extra elements and get it all nice-n-ready for Adobe PDF that is completely CreateSpace compatible. With with a shift to a different PDF output setting, I can create a PDF that is completely LightningSource-compatible.

All from one INDD, all created with our custom template, using one text frame.

So, if that's not "easier" enough, I'm not sure what would qualify.

I can't speak to how differently things were done in versions prior to CS6. I didn't use 5.5 or earlier. Sorry.

What I do know is that up-thread, a complex "multi-book" process was described as "required for creating eBooks in InDesign" and my only point is, I use CS6 and that's not the case at all. 

As Ashy said up-thread:



Ashy said:


> Yup...InDesign templates, when setup properly, are very powerful and flexible. I've designed entire print and pdf games based on InDesign templates.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> But in terms of generating TOCs, it's now as simple as applying a Chapter Heading style (and a Section Heading style, if necessary, or a subheading style, if needed) and the rest is pretty automated for us. Plus it gives us the option of doing a single-level flat TOC, or doing a multi-level, indented TOC. Pretty nifty. You just apply the styles to the chapters and double-check your work by hitting "refresh TOC" when necessary, and all that labor just vanishes. Because of the way we've set up our customized template.


I can do this in Sigil but I like the idea of hitting the POD straight off the bat. Oh for one prog that does it all _without_ having to do it all for the program.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> But in terms of generating TOCs, it's now as simple as applying a Chapter Heading style (and a Section Heading style, if necessary, or a subheading style, if needed) and the rest is pretty automated for us. Plus it gives us the option of doing a single-level flat TOC, or doing a multi-level, indented TOC. Pretty nifty. You just apply the styles to the chapters and double-check your work by hitting "refresh TOC" when necessary, and all that labor just vanishes. Because of the way we've set up our customized template.


Calibre will do the same thing and do an html and NCX TOC. You just define the heading styles used for chapter titles in the conversion / TOC settings.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Frank and Katie,

I'm sure those programs can do something similar to what InDesign and our template do, though I'd argue InDesign does it a bit more smoothly, perhaps. And is more versatile in that and other ways.

(I've used Calibre in the past... no version of which was very automated, and, up to the point in time I stopped using it, it often bloated .epubs out with additional code, including plopping its own TOC in the back... and that TOC would be limited to 50 items, so if you had a book that needed more TOC entries than that, you were out of luck.... at that time, anyway... it may have improved since.)

Mostly, these days, if I use Calibre at all, it's to do a quick conversion of an existing eBook into another format. Like ePub to mobi, or epub/mobi to .rtf, or something like that. Not especially clean, but functional, is still my impression.

I have not used Sigil.

Those things being said, I'm not saying InDesign is right for everyone. I'm simply defending it from being some outdated tool requiring arcane structures to create an eBook, which, in fact, it does not require as of CS6. Whether it ever did, prior to CS6, is also something I don't know, per se, but kinda doubt given my experience with the CS6 version.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> and that TOC would be limited to 50 items, ...


That's actually a setting which defaults to 50. You can make it any maximum number you want.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

JRWoodward said:


> Does anyone know how well Scrivener works with Dragon Dictate? I am trying to get into Dragon because I have an old wrist injury and diabetes; both of them make carpal tunnel syndrome extra-difficult. A semi-retired professor I know slightly saw me working on my iPad once in a coffee shop and told me he had just bought one. "Is it really suitable for serious writing?" I said, well I wrote 100,000 words of my novel on the iPad, because that was easier on my wrist than a conventional keyboard.


Not sure if Dragon Dictate is different than Dragon Naturally Speaking, but I think you'll find that you're happiest dictating into the Dragonpad and copy-pasting it into whatever program you want it in. I never tried it with Scrivener, but did find that it was considerably slower and less accurate dictating directly into Word. Of course, you couldn't get it to do an emdash, but that's a two-second find and replace at the end of drafting.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

tkepner said:


> That's actually a setting which defaults to 50. You can make it any maximum number you want.


Fair enough.  You probably know that program better than I do. My expertise is limited to the tools I use most often.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Fair enough.  You probably know that program better than I do. My expertise is limited to the tools I use most often.


First time I hit the "50" limit I said _that can't be right_ and looked in the help file where it told me where to change the value. No problem. I like programs with help files that actually answer your questions instead of bragging about what they can do and how easy they are to use.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

Sounds like there are many different preferences. Almost as many as there are writers, which isn't surprising. But it sounds like we each migrate toward what we find the easiest and most productive.

As far as I'm concerned, all word processors are created equal when it comes to writing. I just need to be able to open multiple documents at the same time (not as easy as you might think on some platforms) and have bold, italic, and underline. Typically I only use italics when writing, but I want the option for the others. So for me, notepad doesn't cut it, but just about everything else does. I use TextMaker because of the mobile version and because it is a substitute for Word that out performs Word in just about everything I care about.

When it comes to ebook creation, it is all about the end product, not how you got there. If your method produces what you consider to be a professional looking ebook, then you are doing it right. I think InDesign has too steep a learning curve and isn't for most people and I note that our biggest champion of it has been working with it daily for a long time in a professional environment. In that case, it probably is the best tool. For me, someone who does have access to InDesign on my work PC and has tried it, it isn't the easiest. If I needed an epub or mobi file for pre-publication for any reason, the easiest way for me is to export html and bring it into Sigil. It has its own learning curve, but knowing html code really helps. If I needed to, I'd use Calibre to convert it to mobi. But for creating a professional looking ebook for publication, I haven't found anything as simple or quick as the Smashwords meatgrinder. It did take a few tries at first to find what works, but now it is quick and easy and it looks like I want it to. That works for me, but not everyone.

And to add in a completely different point of view, Robert J. Sawyer still writes in WordStar for DOS (http://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm if you want to read his reasons). So it really is all about what works for you. But for whatever it is you find works for you, someone out there will absolutely hate it and think it is the worst choice and what they think is best just doesn't work for you.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

RobinBreyer said:


> As far as I'm concerned, all word processors are created equal when it comes to writing.


A nice attempt at a very PC, ripple-no-waters statement... but simply untrue.

Do word processors each have their own fans? Sure.

Are there a number of such programs that will sufficiently meet the needs of at least SOME writers? Yup.

But "created equal"? Heck no.

That would necessitate that every single word processor offers all of the exact same features, implemented the exact same way, for the exact same price.

And that's not the case.

Some word processors are, by design, bare-bones in features, to meet the needs of writers who prefer simplicity. SIMPLICITY UBER ALLES!

Some word processors specialize in print delivery. Or Web delivery. Or eBook delivery.

Some word processors are free! (FocusWriter!)

Some cost a little! (Scrivener's pretty reasonable.)

Some cost a LOT! (MS Word.)

And a couple cost a fortune. (InDesign is more of a page-design/layout program than a word processor, but Adobe's price is OUTRAGEOUS. I can buy a beater car for less!)

So, no... "all word processors" are NOT "created equal."

But all word processors DO fit best for different groups of writers and different uses/purposes.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

RobinBreyer said:


> And to add in a completely different point of view, Robert J. Sawyer still writes in WordStar for DOS (http://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm if you want to read his reasons). So it really is all about what works for you. But for whatever it is you find works for you, someone out there will absolutely hate it and think it is the worst choice and what they think is best just doesn't work for you.


God, I LOVED WordStar for DOS. You could build a book as big as your disk, not limited to what your WP could fit into memory. Had tons more features than any other word processor at the time. Unfortunately, when my computer's needed replacing I couldn't migrate DOS to a windows machine (not to mention the lack of DOS drivers for printers and monitors)  and had to switch to a Windows word processor. I would still be using it if I had a DOS-based computer available.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

My first post ever here, thanks to jm14 from the KDP Community forums for mentioning this place.

I checked out Scrivener about six months ago after reading a lot of other authors' views and reviews on it. I tried it out...and bought it within thirty minutes. I have it on four different PC's (no Mac here), and I will never go back to Word for anything (I've hated MS Word for over ten years but it was still the best option to use in my opinion since it is nearly universal). 

I was using Calibre at first until I got Scrivener. Now that I can do it all in one shot (making RTF/mobi/epub files for all of the different distributions), I need nothing else. I'm still learning to harness the power of Scrivener, and am continually amazed at how much easier it has made writing/editing/publishing for me.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

AngryGames said:


> My first post ever here, thanks to jm14 from the KDP Community forums for mentioning this place.
> 
> I checked out Scrivener about six months ago after reading a lot of other authors' views and reviews on it. I tried it out...and bought it within thirty minutes. I have it on four different PC's (no Mac here), and I will never go back to Word for anything (I've hated MS Word for over ten years but it was still the best option to use in my opinion since it is nearly universal).
> 
> I was using Calibre at first until I got Scrivener. Now that I can do it all in one shot (making RTF/mobi/epub files for all of the different distributions), I need nothing else. I'm still learning to harness the power of Scrivener, and am continually amazed at how much easier it has made writing/editing/publishing for me.


I've had a nightmare time with Scrivener on the PC trying to get the three way publishing process to work how it's been described in most the rave reviews. Also problems with file imports. There's a list of the main diffences here: https://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16056&sid=c3fe319d8abc1fbf907560a624d0a4f1 if you check the video tutorials https://www.literatureandlatte.com/videos/Exporting_eBook.mov on the scrivener site you'll also see that there's an entire section missing in the compile options in the pc version. The manufacturer's provisos for the PC version are that you'll need to edit the end files in Sigil or another editor if you want full control of the end product. Although it works reasonably well for straight up vanilla formatting (most books)

The features that everyone raves about for Mac are apparently in the development pipeline for the PC, so I'm gonna wait for that version as I publish non-fiction as well that requires more formatting control.
I've put a thread for PC alternative workflows here. One worked very well.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,157831.0.html

I've also put a basic PC tute on my blog (which I'll update with a manual ToC when I'm back in the office).
http://www.frankcoles.com/writing/the-quick-dirty-guide-formatting-ebooks-scrivener-epub-mobi-createspace/#.UfZGLcu9KK0


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I haven't found imports into Scriv to be particularly strong, but the whole point of the program is to write in it. IMHO if you are just using it to convert, you're wasting your time. It's going to drive you crazy.

I'd really have to have examples of what doesn't work in Scrivener. Right now, the only real issue with Win-Scriv is that it doesn't give you any granularity on the formatting override, so you really need to format in the editor.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

Katie Elle said:


> I haven't found imports into Scriv to be particularly strong, but the whole point of the program is to write in it. IMHO if you are just using it to convert, you're wasting your time. It's going to drive you crazy.
> 
> I'd really have to have examples of what doesn't work in Scrivener. Right now, the only real issue with Win-Scriv is that it doesn't give you any granularity on the formatting override, so you really need to format in the editor.


There are several problems with win-scriv according to the scriv forum including some, but not all, of the features. I have no clue what granularity means in this context. I've tried writing in it but I'm not sure what extra writing features it gives over say writing in a text editor or organising a project folder, but the project management options might be useful, specifically viewing all research in one folder.

What do you all find most useful in the writing features? It'd be useful to compare against the missing features in win that I posted earlier.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> There are several problems with win-scriv according to the scriv forum including some, but not all, of the features. I have no clue what granularity means in this context. I've tried writing in it but I'm not sure what extra writing features it gives over say writing in a text editor or organising a project folder, but the project management options might be useful, specifically viewing all research in one folder.


By granularity, I mean when you compile in the Mac version you can choose what from the "editor" formatting you want to be replaced by the compiler. The key one here is really "centering" and "indents." With the Mac version, you can tell it to leave those alone and your centered items stay centered and your first paragraph remains unindented (well provided you use either). With the Windows version, it's either all or nothing, so I ended up formatting in the editor.



> What do you all find most useful in the writing features? It'd be useful to compare against the missing features in win that I posted earlier.


The binder. The ability to have unlimited easily accessible notes, to plot out scenes with the "index" cards, and to scenes around.

Also the distraction free mode. I love that for when I'm cranking out the first draft of something.


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## MorganKegan (Jan 10, 2013)

Magda Alexander said:


> I insert an image as my scene break. I took an image I liked and converted it into a small JPG in Photoshop and then imported it into my project's research folder. Every time I have a scene break, I go to Edit, Insert, Image from File and click on the image I imported and voila it shows up! FYI, I do it within the Editor and not when I compile it.


*WARNING: For Mac Scriv only, Win Scriv doesn't have the $img placeholder tag yet. Sorry, Win Scriv users.*

I'm using a color jpg image of a sprig of ivy (one that looks good on an e-ink reader, too) both in my chapter titles, and scaled-down as my scene break separator. Here's how I do it:

First, I imported the file, ivy2.jpg, into my Research folder. This is necessary. Then, for my chapter titles, I bring up the Compile options box, and select "Formatting" from the Compile Options list on the left-hand side of the box. Then I select "Level 1+", and click the "Section Layout..." button in the middle of the screen.

This brings up another box that lets me set various things about the automatically-generated chapter titles. I select "Title Prefix and Suffix". Then in the "Suffix" box, I enter two returns (to put some space between the chapter title and the image), followed by "<$img:ivy2;w=250>" (without the double-quotes, no spaces, and that's a colon and a semi-colon in there. Oh, and a dollar-sign before 'img'. Another oh, don't put the file extension.).

This tells Scriv to insert my ivy2 image from my Research folder into the chapter title, scaled to a width of 250 pixels, with the appropriate proportional height.

I then click OK, and immediately see my image appear in the formatting box. I can then select it, and apply center formatting to it (or you could set it to right/left justified if you wanted.) Note that this is also where you would apply font size/bolding/whatever to the actual title text. Also note that your image won't appear to be the correct size here. It will probably appear way to big. That's because it's sized in absolute pixel dimensions. The best way to see how your chapter headings will actually look now will be to do a test export to .mobi and bring up the file in the Kindle Previewer app. If you don't like the size, go back into the Compile settings and change the 'w=' setting on the image, re-export to .mobi, check in the Previewer, ... You get the picture.

Okay, now I've gotten my spiffy image into my chapter titles. Next, I want to use a smaller-scaled version of the same image (you can use a different image, of course) for my scene breaks.

For the method I use, I have separate documents in each chapter folder for scenes. (No, I don't totally plan that out ahead of time, I just write, though it's natural for me to write in scenes, and to put each scene in a separate document. But Scriv lets you merge and split documents to your hearts desire. I wait until I'm doing my second draft to decide where to put the final break scenes for best story flow.)

Again in Compile options, this time I select "Separators" from the Compiles Options list, then for "Text Separator" (what Scriv will insert between adjacent text documents inside a folder) I put "<$img:ivy2;w=150>". This gives me the same image, but scaled smaller. This way, the image file is only in the .mobi once, saving me some file size. Speaking of which, you might want to use a graphics program to scale the image file to be equal to the largest 'w=' you'll use for your ebook. No sense in wasting file size with an image bigger than that.

Now, don't give me credit for more brains than I have. I didn't come up with all this, it tooks some head-scratching and Googling. When you're standing on the shoulders of giants, it's easy to appear tall.

The end result gives me something that I think looks great on my original Kindle File, Kindle Fire HD 7', and my son's Kindle Keyboard, and also looks great in all the settings in the Kindle Previewer app. I think adding some graphic touches, particularly color ones that still look good in greyscale, adds a nice 'value-added' appeal. I can only hope my potential readers agree.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

Katie Elle said:


> By granularity, I mean when you compile in the Mac version you can choose what from the "editor" formatting you want to be replaced by the compiler. The key one here is really "centering" and "indents." With the Mac version, you can tell it to leave those alone and your centered items stay centered and your first paragraph remains unindented (well provided you use either). With the Windows version, it's either all or nothing, so I ended up formatting in the editor.
> 
> The binder. The ability to have unlimited easily accessible notes, to plot out scenes with the "index" cards, and to scenes around.
> 
> Also the distraction free mode. I love that for when I'm cranking out the first draft of something.


Thanks Elle, good info. I use real world index cards so will have a play with these in Scriv. I take notes in all kinds of places, long walks, the nursery, pub, out surfing, so scraps of paper and my smartphone ae invaluable. I speak into my phone on the go, record it, and upload to dragon which transcribes it with reasonable accuracy. It's brilliant when you're on the go.



MorganKegan said:


> *WARNING: For Mac Scriv only, Win Scriv doesn't have the $img placeholder tag yet. Sorry, Win Scriv
> 
> Okay, now I've gotten my spiffy image into my chapter titles. Next, I want to use a smaller-scaled version of the same image (you can use a different image, of course) for my scene breaks.
> 
> ...


*

I did this accidentally in winScriv by copy and pasting from a word doc that already had an image file to replace # as scene break, not sure if it compiled accurately will check as it definitely displayed.

I might have a go at this writing in scenes lark, or I might just crack on with the writing, there are some good free text editors that have distraction free mode too.*


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## DJ Edwardson (Mar 15, 2013)

MorganKegan said:


> *WARNING: For Mac Scriv only, Win Scriv doesn't have the $img placeholder tag yet. Sorry, Win Scriv users.*
> 
> I'm using a color jpg image of a sprig of ivy (one that looks good on an e-ink reader, too) both in my chapter titles, and scaled-down as my scene break separator. Here's how I do it:
> 
> ...


Thanks for this tip Morgan. Very helpful!


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

I agree... thanks Morgan!

I highly recommend Ed Ditto's book on Scrivener for these types of tweaks. Helped me a lot as I get ready to launch my first self pub ebook on the Amazon store in August. Little things like this make all the difference in a quality end product, in my mind.

http://www.literatureandlatte.com/books_on_scrivener.php


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## JRWoodward (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm getting Scrivener on Thursday, when I get paid. What should I know as a newbie?


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

JRWoodward said:


> I'm getting Scrivener on Thursday, when I get paid. What should I know as a newbie?


Take it slow. Don't try to learn everything it can do, just focus on your immediate needs--and that's it.

Then, if there's something specific you want to do, figure out how to do just *that* piece.

What will you be using it for? Be specific.


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## JRWoodward (Apr 26, 2011)

Novel writing. I have many research notes that I will need to use for Novel-in3-Days (Labor Day weekend), plus outlines,etc. Also, many notes and outlines for NaNoWriMo. I guess I will transfer an existing project over first, to get some experience. Too bad there's not a DUMMIES book. I can rock a DUMMIES book.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

JRWoodward said:


> Novel writing. I have many research notes that I will need to use for Novel-in3-Days (Labor Day weekend), plus outlines,etc. Also, many notes and outlines for NaNoWriMo. I guess I will transfer an existing project over first, to get some experience. Too bad there's not a DUMMIES book. I can rock a DUMMIES book.


There actually is a dummies book, but I would recommend this one, instead:

http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Novel-Scrivener-ebook/dp/B004ZG7BMU/

It's a no-frills guide, written by author David Hewson. He details the stuff you need to know to get your novel through its various stages. I have another book I'd recommend for formatting, but this is the best I've found for everything but the formatting (though, he touches on that topic, as well).


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Scrivener seems to be for simple projects only; which is a good description for most novels. For more involved books (i.e., anything more than simple word and paragraph formatting, chapter headings, and so forth) the staff suggest you use something else. I asked them about footnotes and indicies and here's the response:
-----------
Scrivener is intended primarily as a tool for developing long first drafts, and it leaves specialist activities such as indexing to dedicated applications. If you have complex layout, image handling or textual analysis needs, you will need to perform these as a post-processing stage in a suitable application (such as Microsoft Word) after output from Scrivener.

However, you can insert footnotes into your text.  Scrivener for Mac offers functionality to help with building a table of contents (this has not yet been incorporated into Scrivener for Windows, but is planned for a future release).
-----------

For me, then, Scrivener doesn't provide enough to warrant its use for anything but a plain vanilla novel.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> A nice attempt at a very PC, ripple-no-waters statement... but simply untrue.


No, what I said is quite true. There are lots of bells and whistles that differ and some are better at editing than others, but when it comes to the process of recording your words from the keyboard or from voice dictation software, they are all the same. It is the extra features that differ and create fans of different software. It is what you can do with the word once they are written that separates Scrivener from Word. It is the individual writing process that necessitates editing while writing or writing first and editing later, or what tools you need on hand while writing. But for the simple act of replacing a typewriter, they are all the same.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

tkepner said:


> God, I LOVED WordStar for DOS. You could build a book as big as your disk, not limited to what your WP could fit into memory. Had tons more features than any other word processor at the time. Unfortunately, when my computer's needed replacing I couldn't migrate DOS to a windows machine (not to mention the lack of DOS drivers for printers and monitors)  and had to switch to a Windows word processor. I would still be using it if I had a DOS-based computer available.


Robert J. Sawyer does still use it with a Windows machine. There are versions of DOS that can run under Windows or in a virtual machine within Windows. It's hard to find software too outdated to still run if you really want to use it.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

tkepner said:


> Scrivener seems to be for simple projects only; which is a good description for most novels. For more involved books (i.e., anything more than simple word and paragraph formatting, chapter headings, and so forth) the staff suggest you use something else. I asked them about footnotes and indicies and here's the response:
> -----------
> Scrivener is intended primarily as a tool for developing long first drafts, and it leaves specialist activities such as indexing to dedicated applications. If you have complex layout, image handling or textual analysis needs, you will need to perform these as a post-processing stage in a suitable application (such as Microsoft Word) after output from Scrivener.
> 
> ...


Scrivener is intended mostly for fiction novels. They've always admitted that. If you're a nonfiction writer, there are better tools, at least after the first draft.

It always makes me shake my head when folks point out something like this... something the developers themselves have always pointed out... and use that as a "here's why I don't like Product X" thing.

It's like taking a basin, tub and tile cleaner and saying, "Yeah, I guess it's okay, but you can't clean windows with it."

Point: Scrivener is primarily intended for fiction writers. That's a selling point, not a weakness. Also, that hardly means novels are "simple."


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

RobinBreyer said:


> But for the simple act of replacing a typewriter, they are all the same.


It's still like saying "all operating systems are created equal" even though everyone knows there are vast differences between Windows, Linux, MacOS, Android, Chrome, and iOS, to name a few. And then claiming you're right because "they all make the silicon chips inside your box accomplish the basic tasks of computing."

Or, it's like saying, "All spouses are created equal" because they all provide companionship, even though the high divorce rate indicates that not all spouses are equal.... some pairs of people are better-suited to each other than others.

But hey, if you wanna be reductionist just to "be right," that's up to you.


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## JRWoodward (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks for the lead about the ebook. I bought it. 
As for WordStar, I was a stubborn WordPerfect man. I still dream (literally!) of the old WordPerfect keyboard commands. I used it despite the advent of Windows for years, before finally switching to OpenOffice. (Can't afford MS Office.) Then I went Mac and got used to Pages, but Scrivener allows the consolidation of notes and outlines the same file as the novel itself. We're doing a Novel-In-Three-Days for the Labor Day contest and a research-intensive historical romance for NaNoWriMo, which will require intense planning. Scrivener seems to bring it for those purposes.
(Maybe LibreOffice can do those things to, but not gracefully.)


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> It's still like saying "all operating systems are created equal" even though everyone knows there are vast differences between Windows, Linux, MacOS, Android, Chrome, and iOS, to name a few. And then claiming you're right because "they all make the silicon chips inside your box accomplish the basic tasks of computing."
> 
> Or, it's like saying, "All spouses are created equal" because they all provide companionship, even though the high divorce rate indicates that not all spouses are equal.... some pairs of people are better-suited to each other than others.
> 
> But hey, if you wanna be reductionist just to "be right," that's up to you.


I limited my comment when I first made it. I was just being overly clear and precise the second time so you would not miss it again. You aren't talking about the software on the same level I am and you may not write the same way I do. I do my rough draft straight through and then go back and edit it later. I use many tools in my editing process, but about the only things I use when I am writing are italics, bold, and having multiple documents open at the same time. Pretty much anything more advanced than Windows Notepad will suffice. I do like having a word count, but it is not vital (except during NNWM).

We have to be talking about the same thing in order for you to say I'm wrong. It is clear in your initial response to what I said that we were not talking about the same thing so I explained it in detail. If you still do not agree, that is fine. I never ask that everyone agree with me. That would be boring. You are the one who insisted I was wrong rather than saying you don't agree with what I said.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

JRWoodward said:


> * * * I was a stubborn WordPerfect man.


I also thought nothing would part me from WP, and you could say nothing has. I still have it on my PCs and use it for word processing other than writing. But threads like this one on KB made me so curious about Scrivener, I downloaded the free trial and gave it a whirl. For fiction writing, it's now Scrivener, and WP sometimes isn't opened for days at a time.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

RobinBreyer said:


> I limited my comment when I first made it. I was just being overly clear and precise the second time so you would not miss it again...


Fair enough.

Don't worry, we're still cool as far as my part is concerned. My posts were intended in a lighthearted vein.

Or a lighthearted capillary, if you prefer. 

At least we can get along better than these two:


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> I'm getting Scrivener on Thursday, when I get paid. What should I know as a newbie?


That you can download it and use it for 30 days without purchasing it. And by 30 days, they mean 30 days you actually use it, if you don't open it on a given day, it doesn't count.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

HarryDayle said:


> My last non fiction book contained more than 300 illustrations and a very complex layout. I can't imagine having written it in anything other than Scrivener. There was so much to keep track of, it would have been a nightmare in anything else I've ever used in the past. The Scrivener binder, and especially the Research section, meant everything was in one place and one file, including blurbs, cover images, illustrations, to do lists, pre-release reviews, a ton of research material, saved webpages, PDFs, etc etc.
> 
> The ebook version I then compiled directly in Scrivener. It handled everything well, chapter headings, sub headings of several levels, illustration formatting, table of contents, the lot, styling it all on the fly. It only took two clicks to go from the ePub to mobi.
> 
> ...


Win or Mac and fries version?


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## JRWoodward (Apr 26, 2011)

HarryDayle said:


> Mac, most definitely Mac.


Concur!


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## williamvw (Mar 12, 2012)

Here's a question for hardcore Scrivener users: I keep seeing so much praise for the Mac version... Is there enough benefit there to make an end-to-end Windows and Android guy like me want to seek out a used MacBook, just to be able to get the Mac version of Scrivener? Or is Windows close enough in its capabilities and productivity?


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

I have the Windows version. IMHO it has more than enough going for it. Plus they keep updating it. I got mine last year and it's been updated twice (FREE of Charge).


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

williamvw said:


> Here's a question for hardcore Scrivener users: I keep seeing so much praise for the Mac version... Is there enough benefit there to make an end-to-end Windows and Android guy like me want to seek out a used MacBook, just to be able to get the Mac version of Scrivener? Or is Windows close enough in its capabilities and productivity?


While I much prefer the Mac for other reasons, I would not jump ship over just this one program as it does exist in the Windows world currently and they are working on updating it to the Mac level. So at some point down the road the Mac version and Windows version will be comparable.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

williamvw said:


> Here's a question for hardcore Scrivener users: I keep seeing so much praise for the Mac version... Is there enough benefit there to make an end-to-end Windows and Android guy like me want to seek out a used MacBook, just to be able to get the Mac version of Scrivener? Or is Windows close enough in its capabilities and productivity?


If you're in the market for a new computer... definitely get a Mac. MacScriv is the whole reason I looked into Macs in the first place, and I haven't turned back since. Love my Mac.

The windows version, for the actual drafting of a manuscript, is just missing out on some bells and whistles (the fact that the session tracker resets every time you close the file drives me insane). If you want to use it as a 1-stop publishing suite, you'll want the Mac version.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Magda Alexander said:


> I have the Windows version. IMHO it has more than enough going for it.


This is how I feel too, and I understand the goal is to have the Windows version match the Mac version within the next year. However, I use the program for organizing and writing and have never tried to compile anything to a finished form.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I am a Windows and Android guy.

Windows by necessity, Android by choice.

Used to be a Mac guy, but for reasons I won't go into here... never again.

Don't let anyone try to con you into a Mac over a few extra features in one program, differences that eventually will dissipate.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk HD


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I think the big frustration is not the lack of features, but that all the tutorials out there seem to be from a Mac point of view. You can definitely get around most of the problems, particularly if you're writing a straight narrative novel and let's be real, most of us are.


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## RobinBreyer (May 12, 2013)

Has anyone tried the epub features of Apple's Pages or WordPerfect?


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

I have Scrivener and I've downloaded the book on how to format eBooks and print in Scrivener. As if that's not enough to keep me busy LOL here's another question. Does anyone write on their iPad and if you do, what program do you use that works well with downloading or cutting-and-pasting your work to Scrivener?

I've checked out Storyist for Ipad http://storyist.com/ipad/ and it seems the closest to Scrivener's concepts. (I know L&L is working on an IOS version of Scrivener but I want something now). I love Storyist's outline feature, folders and Index Cards and the fact it can do RTF. My question is..before I invest $10, I'd love to hear if anyone has used the iPad version of it and have been able to easily pulled their content into Scrivener? How do you do it? Cut and paste? Or Dropbox sync?

Thoughts...


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

If you're using a Mac, I'd recommend iAWriter. It's not intended to have the organizational mechanics of Scrivener, but I've used it before just to write in and then pull it over into Scrivener.

I have the iOS and Mac version that sync via iCloud, so if I write something on my phone, I can find it on my computer when I get home. Then, I can copy/paste it straight into Scriv.


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

I have AiWriter, but if I remember right, I didn't like the fact there is no font choice. I feel like I'm typing in an archaic script.  

Then I switched Byword and when I emailed myself the document and cut and pasted into Word, all my quotes flipped around to where I had to fix all of them. Didn't save me any time.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

If you're talking about "smart quotes", then you can handle this really easily. In Word, just do a find/replace for the quotes. It will fix them all instantly.

Also, for pasting into Scrivener, ALWAYS right click and select the "paste and match format", or whatever the wording is. This will just paste over the text and leave all of your standard formatting the same.

As far as the font -- it's a simple writer, so it doesn't give many options. For strict drafting (which is all I use it for), this doesn't bother _me_ in the slightest. To each their own, though.


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks! I'm sure the quotes issue is "user error" on my part.

As far as the font, I didn't think I cared either. I mean, I'm a TNR kind of girl, nothing fancy. But on that program, when I tried to write with it I noticed it and it actually slowed me down. Yep, we writers are weird with the things that distract our writing flow. LOL!


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Also, for pasting into Scrivener, ALWAYS right click and select the "paste and match format", or whatever the wording is. This will just paste over the text and leave all of your standard formatting the same.


Definitely. However, you will lose italics and indents doing this, which is a PITA.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Katie Elle said:


> Definitely. However, you will lose italics and indents doing this, which is a PITA.


If you know you're going to lose italics, bold, etc, then in the original use the hash mark (#) and double hash (##) to mark the sections that are italic or bold. The do a S&R to adjust your text. Not he best solution (unless Scrivener does S&R for formats, then it's an easy four-step process).


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

tkepner said:


> If you know you're going to lose italics, bold, etc, then in the original use the hash mark (#) and double hash (##) to mark the sections that are italic or bold. The do a S&R to adjust your text. Not he best solution (unless Scrivener does S&R for formats, then it's an easy four-step process).


This is what I Do to markup italics. Indents are handled automatically by scrivener... the tab key is for da'devil


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

FrankColes said:


> I've had a nightmare time with Scrivener on the PC trying to get the three way publishing process to work how it's been described in most the rave reviews. Also problems with file imports. There's a list of the main diffences here: https://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16056&sid=c3fe319d8abc1fbf907560a624d0a4f1 if you check the video tutorials https://www.literatureandlatte.com/videos/Exporting_eBook.mov on the scrivener site you'll also see that there's an entire section missing in the compile options in the pc version. The manufacturer's provisos for the PC version are that you'll need to edit the end files in Sigil or another editor if you want full control of the end product. Although it works reasonably well for straight up vanilla formatting (most books)
> 
> The features that everyone raves about for Mac are apparently in the development pipeline for the PC, so I'm gonna wait for that version as I publish non-fiction as well that requires more formatting control.
> I've put a thread for PC alternative workflows here. One worked very well.
> ...


I've only tried to import one 'story', and I didn't have much problem with it other than stripping out Word's nonsense. I've used it exclusively to write new stories, so have never really had any problems other than just learning how powerful it is.

I have the PC version and while I won't get into Mac vs PC (have used both), I'll still to the PC version as it does everything I want it to, and my PC runs a lot more software that I need than a Mac does.

derp...ps I only write fiction for the moment, and the non-fiction book I'll be working on in a bit will be in the same format as fiction so I won't need all of the extra bells and whistles that some non-fiction titles do.

Basically I love my Scrivener and unless someone else comes up with something better, I will use it until my fingers can no longer type.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

AngryGames said:


> I will use it until my fingers can no longer type.


Never fear! You can use Dragon Naturally Speaking after your fingers are done.


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

Magda Alexander said:


> I have the Windows version. IMHO it has more than enough going for it. Plus they keep updating it. I got mine last year and it's been updated twice (FREE of Charge).


I am now a convert and agree with the above. Hallelujah! All hail the reborn Scrivener on the Windows machine. After re-reading through all of the posts on here, I spent a day just trying out all the recommendations (and on the litandlatte Windows forum). It seems you can do most things - in formatting terms - that you can on the Mac. It's good, but you do have to spend the time on it.

I now have two presets, both convert to epub, mobi and cspace with no problems. The first is set up to use manual ToC and chapter headings. The second to use the title and ToC autogeneration.

At some point I'll get round to writing a Win tutorial for all this as well as uploading the presets for download. Because let's face it the main problem with Scrivener is the manual - for lack of clarity, layout, reasonable signposting and instruction - and the fact that most of the relevant things you need to know are hidden away in the format or compile menus and are counter intuitive.

The second revelation however has been writing and researching in it. I'm just putting the research together for parts I&II of a series and the ability to store all files, links, images in one place is super useful.

As are the index cards, split across two screens I can now plot out the storylines without having to worry that the kids are going to wander in and eat the real ones mid-plotting.

It's not a perfect program, but it's good enough for now.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

PC version question. 

I was writing in Scrivener when I hit the "PageUp" key to go fix something I hadn't noticed. It took me to the very beginning of the file. "PageDown" took me to the end. Is there any way to "page" through a file besides repeatedly pressing the up-arrow and down-arrow keys?


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

tkepner said:


> PC version question.
> 
> I was writing in Scrivener when I hit the "PageUp" key to go fix something I hadn't noticed. It took me to the very beginning of the file. "PageDown" took me to the end. Is there any way to "page" through a file besides repeatedly pressing the up-arrow and down-arrow keys?


I haven't turned on my PC in a long time, but have you tried Alt+up ?

I'm surprised Page Up does that.


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## AutumnKQ (Jul 27, 2013)

Ok. I love Scrivener and I have a PC. I've read through this entire thread, but didn't catch an answer for this:

*Can you add chapter headings images easily?
Can you add images at the back with links (for e-mail list, etc.)?*

I've compiled a few drafts of my stories to read on my Kindle- they look fine and the basic TOC works. It sounds like maybe I'd need to export... some type of file... and then finish the formatting process in Sigil? I don't even know what Sigil is. I have to look into that.

I think my editor will be doing notes in a word doc, so I'd have to go back and make all the changes in my Scrivener doc. (Well, no, I suppose I could just copy / paste the changed scenes into the correct folders. Scrivener fixes word formatting if you paste it the right way, I think.)

I can write html / css, but I really hate it. I'm dreading the formatting process, but I need to learn to do it myself. I only want to learn one way of doing it. If Scrivener will give me cleaner documents, I'll use it.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

AutumnKQ said:


> Ok. I love Scrivener and I have a PC. I've read through this entire thread, but didn't catch an answer for this:
> 
> *Can you add chapter headings images easily?
> Can you add images at the back with links (for e-mail list, etc.)?*
> ...


In Mac-- yes you can do both of these rather easily.

That might not help much, but it's a start


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## AutumnKQ (Jul 27, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> In Mac-- yes you can do both of these rather easily.
> 
> That might not help much, but it's a start


How do you do it? Do you have to create a new file and just add in images and make them into links? Someone mentioned doing that for... scene breaks? somewhere earlier in the thread. I haven't played around at all, but I have added images into my research folder before. It would be so amazing to be able to just stick with Scrivener.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> I haven't turned on my PC in a long time, but have you tried Alt+up ?
> 
> I'm surprised Page Up does that.


So was I. Using ALT, CTL, and Shift, did not provide that functionality. There appears to be no way to simply "page" through your file. I think the ALT PageUp/Down move you between "scenes" but do nothing IN a scene.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

AutumnKQ said:


> How do you do it? Do you have to create a new file and just add in images and make them into links? Someone mentioned doing that for... scene breaks? somewhere earlier in the thread. I haven't played around at all, but I have added images into my research folder before. It would be so amazing to be able to just stick with Scrivener.


In Mac, you import the image into your project, and then you can use the IMG tag along with the image name to have Scrivener insert it on compile (so you don't actually insert it before compile, meaning it has to carry the image around in an inefficient manner).


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## FrankColes (Feb 22, 2012)

AutumnKQ said:


> How do you do it? Do you have to create a new file and just add in images and make them into links? Someone mentioned doing that for... scene breaks? somewhere earlier in the thread. I haven't played around at all, but I have added images into my research folder before. It would be so amazing to be able to just stick with Scrivener.


I've copy and pasted the image in from word previously and that has worked for an image to replace scene break # marks.

In Sigil place your cursor in the spot you want and insert image either via drop- down list or the insert image icon. Worth asking on the win forum on the scriv website to find out how else you might do this.

You can copy your editor's changes, but unless they're doing rewrites they'll often suggest areas for change and you simply type them in in the style and tone of voice you write in.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

FrankColes said:


> You can copy your editor's changes, but unless they're doing rewrites they'll often suggest areas for change and you simply type them in in the style and tone of voice you write in.


The ability to import/mimic Word's track changes feature is one of my biggest "Wish List" items for Scrivener right now.


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

This may have already been asked, but has anyone used Scrivener to format for Createspace?


Darren T. Patrick, author of the Rithhek Cage series

@9thChapter (twitter)

darrentpatrick.com


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## Kelsye (Aug 6, 2013)

Just got it. Thanks for the tip!


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

9thChapter said:


> This may have already been asked, but has anyone used Scrivener to format for Createspace?
> 
> Darren T. Patrick, author of the Rithhek Cage series
> 
> ...


I found this useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMLq0wegC10


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

tkepner said:


> Seriously? I can format a 300+ page book in MS-Word for Smashwords in under a day. If it's ready for Smashwords, I can do a Kindle in ten minutes. And vice versa.


I write in Scrivener (which I, personally, love for all steps of the writing process except for the editing-by-other-people, but I do appreciate how easy it is to import a modified document back into the project).

Granted, my old writing process was essentially RTF + folders with links and references, plus frequent use of square brackets to mark off notes to self and a separate "Scraps" file to keep old snippets and copies of revised scenes. I therefore *love* Scrivener's References tab, "annotation" key command, and Snapshot function. Whenever I try writing in another program (like, say, Write or Die), I miss those latter two the most.

Once I have the story and cover, even if I'm making all-new templates from scratch, I can have files for Smashwords, EPUB, MOBI, and PDF (and any other vendor-specific ones) ready for upload within four hours-and that's _including_ the time it takes to produce the front and back matter and to figure out the details I want for that particular series. (My PDF edition? Even gets the cover image as the front page and special pretty fonts. My Smashwords edition? Automatically sticks to font sizes and such that MeatGrinder requires.)

If I have the templates already made? (For example, I created them for book 1 and am now doing book 2?) I can be in the middle of uploading all the files within fifteen minutes.

POD, I currently format in Pages (of the Apple iWork suite). I could readily use Scrivener or MS Word, but I already have basic templates for Pages, which lets me do a few little things that Scrivener doesn't. Creating a CreateSpace compile template for Scrivener is on my to-do list, though.



RobinBreyer said:


> So it really is all about what works for you. But for whatever it is you find works for you, someone out there will absolutely hate it and think it is the worst choice and what they think is best just doesn't work for you.


Agreed.



RobinBreyer said:


> Has anyone tried the epub features of Apple's Pages or WordPerfect?


Pages's EPUB function keeps getting weird glitches in it, and if you have MS Office for Mac, the duplicate fonts Office installs on your computer with the program will also mess it up. You have to quit all word processors, remove the duplicate fonts (FontBook's the easiest way), then-_before opening any word processors_-wipe the font cache. Maintenance by Titanium Software is the simplest utility for that; I prefer OnyX with its greater number of features.


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

Patrick Szabo said:


> I found this useful.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMLq0wegC10


Thanks Patrick!


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## 9thChapter (May 6, 2013)

I'm looking to compile a jpg of a world map (I write fantasy fiction) into my final epub and mobi. Has anyone done this using Scrivener?  My first though would be to include it in the compile phase, but am not sure how that would work.

Thanks.


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