# Nook Chatter: B&N Strikes again



## Anne

Is anyone going to order the Nook? I having a feeling a lot of Nooks will be returned. I am not getting one I was wondering if anyone is going to buy one. Some people have already canceled their pre-order.


----------



## meljackson

If I find out if the are going to let you read Overdrive library ebooks I think I'm going to buy one to go with my Kindle. I will just use both readers. 

Melissa


----------



## The Hooded Claw

I haven't, and I won't unless hands-on reviews reveal some hidden wondrousness in it.

My official position is that I won't spend anymore on hardware until folders or some similar method of managing files is included.  I might allow myself to be tempted to break that rule by something great in the Nook, but the feature lists released don't suggest anything awesome.

I'm quite content with the Kindle 2 (though I'm returning the US-based one I ordered in favor of an international one) except for the lack of folders.  It meets my needs for a basic ebook reader.  I am interested in buying something semi-pocketable for travel, such as the Sony Prs-300, and I'd consider buying something like a Kindle DX if they ever come out with something that has good color.  Otherwise the only way manufacturers will get more of my money for hardware is to come up with some new feature that dazzles me long enough to make me get out my wallet, and the Nook isn't there.  Though I admit that the feature of browsing any B&N ebook via wireless at a store is awfully cool, and comes close.  Maybe the Nook 2 next Christmas!  

Added after a moment's thought....One thing that turns me off about the Nook is that (as I understand it) it can't read Mobi or PRC books without conversion.  Since I have a fair number of Baen science fiction books in that format, I am very turned off by that failing.


----------



## Carol Collett

I won't buy BN Nook. I'm very happy with my K2. Sure I'd like a card slot and the ability to read Overdrive library books would be nice. But those are deal breakers for me. Kindle does what I want from an e reader-I can download books wirelessly and I can read them. But I do think it's great that more choices are available. There are many people who want lots of functions from e readers. I also think the competition will ultimately benefit consumers as each brand continues to try to stay on top of the market.


----------



## danfan

No. I would have considered it for my daughter but the more I read about it, the less I like it. I'll stick with getting her a Kindle next year so we can share an account.


----------



## Kathy

danfan said:


> No. I would have considered it for my daughter but the more I read about it, the less I like it. I'll stick with getting her a Kindle next year so we can share an account.


Same here.


----------



## pidgeon92

I put it on my Christmas wish list...... I do like some of the features, and I think Barnes & Noble will likely have books cheap/free from time to time as Amazon does. I am hoping the PDF support is good.


----------



## Anju 

There are a couple that have definitely said they would buy a nook, and that the kindle is out-dated.

I like the kindle for pc for the pdf files, think that is going to grab business and students.  Be easier to read charts, graphs, tables, etc.  When they come out with the mac version I might get it just because, but I am not a tech junkie like some others here


----------



## mwb

The Hooded Claw said:


> Added after a moment's thought....One thing that turns me off about the Nook is that (as I understand it) it can't read Mobi or PRC books without conversion. Since I have a fair number of Baen science fiction books in that format, I am very turned off by that failing.


Yup, exactly. I have lots of Baen's books and 100s of Feedbook, etc. public domain books that I'd have to re-download just to get back to to where I already am with the Kindle, let along the many Kindle books.

So far no sale.


----------



## Jasonmh

I am considering it.  I think it is a worthy first attempt for B&N, it will be interesting to see what it is like when it comes out.
I am going to wait though, at least until it is out for a while and I can see one at a store.  It will be interesting to see what Amazon does now, knowing that the Nook is going to be released on Nov. 30th, and it probaby represents the best a competitor has to offer for the moment.  I am guessing that before Nov. 30th we will hear about a price drop for the DX, and I hope maybe some details on what the next Kindle has in store for us.  I love my kindle, but I am open to other e-readers in the future depending on what they have to offer.  The next year should see a big increase in choices and features for us e-reader fans


----------



## Chris W

I do agree that the Nook has some compelling features, but it's not enough to get me to switch platforms. I love the size of my DX, and now I'm more convinced than ever that the next version of the Kindle will jump ahead of the Nook to stay competitive. I'm going to wait and add that to my collection. Plus the Kindle for PC/Mac will also be a nice catch up feature to Barnes and Noble.


----------



## RamTheHammer

I will get one if they reflow pdf documents. No one seems to know the answer to this on th enook board.


----------



## Anne

I love this cover by Kate Spade. I wish I could get it for my K2. I am not sure if I would want to pay $85 for it.
http://gifts.barnesandnoble.com/Canvas-Bella-Library-Cover/e/9781615543564/?cds2Pid=30351


----------



## chilady1

Anne said:


> I love this cover by Kate Spade. I wish I could get it for my K2. I am not sure if I would want to pay $85 for it.
> http://gifts.barnesandnoble.com/Canvas-Bella-Library-Cover/e/9781615543564/?cds2Pid=30351


Anne - I love that cover also, but not for $85.00.


----------



## legalbs2

I am tempted to purchase the Nook, but I would want color in the reading area too.  I really enjoy reading on my iPod Touch, because of the color covers and photos that are within some books.  I do like the touch screen area below the reading area though.

Come on Amazon give it all to us for our Kindles!!!!  Don't make us look elsewhere for another eReader.  Listen to all of our wants and desires regarding the Kindles and get with it.


----------



## ElaineOK

If the Nook had been available when I bought my K2, I don't know which way I would have gone.  Now, the Nook isn't even close to getting me to jump ship.  However, looking at hardware announcements I am becoming convinced that this time next year the K2 is going to look like my first car phone compared to an IPhone.  This is a market that is just going to be fun to watch develop.

Elaine
Norman, OK


----------



## Chris W

Anne said:


> I love this cover by Kate Spade. I wish I could get it for my K2. I am not sure if I would want to pay $85 for it.
> http://gifts.barnesandnoble.com/Canvas-Bella-Library-Cover/e/9781615543564/?cds2Pid=30351


I heard some news stories talking up the wonderful cases available for the Nook, as if there weren't any high end covers for the Kindle. I love my basic black Noreve cover for my DX, but I'm a guy. I also appreciate all the beautiful covers, I keep sending interesting finds to my Mom, who is interested in buying a K2 for her and my Dad this Christmas. B&N just got more designers to offer covers on their site, probably because they'd seen the success of the Kindle. Sometimes, coming 2nd to the party has its advantages.


----------



## Selcien

It's not even a consideration for me as the display is much too small for my tastes.


----------



## Meemo

ElaineOK said:


> If the Nook had been available when I bought my K2, I don't know which way I would have gone. Now, the Nook isn't even close to getting me to jump ship. However, looking at hardware announcements I am becoming convinced that this time next year the K2 is going to look like my first car phone compared to an IPhone. This is a market that is just going to be fun to watch develop.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, OK


LOL Elaine - that's what my daughter said about her K1 when the K2 came out - that it would look like one of those old giant mobile phones. It will, indeed, be interesting to see what develops - I'm just happy that it looks like development will continue!


----------



## PaulGuy

Yup, pre-ordered on day one. Can't wait to check it out.


----------



## mlewis78

I'm not buying one.  I have three kindles and am giving away my K1.  That's enough for me.  It looks nice, but I don't see its features as surpassing the kindle, at least not yet.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I don't see anything so far that makes my K1 look like one of those giant cell phones, but then it's an iterative process...those giant cell phones didn't look quite so bad compared to the ones right after them as they do now. If we get to the point where it's a kind of plastic sheet that stores books, that's basically hard to break and I can change pages by swiping, that would really make my K1 look like one of those old cell phones! And of course it would have to have folders.   

However, when I think about how these devices might realistically change in the near future...size?  I don't want a smaller device; I have one of those now, my Palm T/X. And my recently ordered i'Touch. Features? Folders and color screen, and higher resolution are the features that most interest me. I think the thing that will change drastically over time is the ability read formats and the standardization of formats and the cost of the device.

Just my .02  

Betsy


----------



## egh34

No. Love my Kindle, love Amazon. Will wait for Kindle 3 or 4 before I make another purchase. My K2 is just about perfect.


----------



## legalbs2

I do not like the idea that we have to send the Kindles back to have the batteries changed.  That is a big inconvenience for me.  I am not looking forward to returning my KDX when that occurs.  I would buy the Nook if you can replace your own battery.

I am hoping Amazon will come out with a better "mousetrap" if you know what I mean.  They have enough of our feedback to come up with something no one could touch.


----------



## mindreader

The nook is an exciting device. But I'm still super excited about my K1 and the $150 I paid for it, so...

I'm also confident that when I feel the need to upgrade(?) from my current Kindle,  Amazon will have a "new and improved" model that will fit the bill.


----------



## luvmy4brats

I thought about ordering one, but it just didn't grab me enough that I had to have it. I do plan on playing with it at the store when it comes out. There are some features that I like though.


----------



## Chris W

legalbs2 said:


> I do not like the idea that we have to send the Kindles back to have the batteries changed. That is a big inconvenience for me. I am not looking forward to returning my KDX when that occurs. I would buy the Nook if you can replace your own battery.
> 
> I am hoping Amazon will come out with a better "mousetrap" if you know what I mean. They have enough of our feedback to come up with something no one could touch.


The battery issue is a Red Herring. Most devices made these days have batteries that outlive the device itself. The sealed compartment design makes the device both look better, plus it makes it less likely to have component failure. With Amazon's great service, I don't think that sending a device back for battery replacement is that big a deal. It's no different than trying to order a replacement battery, then having to wait a few days while its shipped to you.
I love my DX, and I'll admit the Nook has some nice features, but I'm not going to suffer buyer's remorse every time a new reader comes out with features the Kindle doesn't have. I'm looking forward to buying a new Kindle to compliment my DX, I'm sure the next generation will have features that will match, and hopefully improve on the Nook. Then the cycle will start all over again!


----------



## booknut

chilady1 said:


> Anne - I love that cover also, but not for $85.00.


I thought this cover was charming! I ordered it (I have pre-ordered the nook) but then cancelled it. As cute as it is I really couldn't see spending $85 on a canvas cover. You are paying for the Kate Spade name only. So I ordered a nice looking leather cover for $30 instead. I do love the covers they already have available. It was hard deciding. What I do like is how many nice covers they have for $30 plus the ability to change the backs of the nook. I plan to order a blue back. I imagine I will be reading with it out of the case often. It looks comfortable to hold. One thing I didn't like when the k2 came out is you either spend $30 for the boring black cover or $100 for the cole haan designer ones. There should have been more in the $30 range that looked nice.


----------



## pidgeon92

I will confess that when I put nook on my Christmas wish list, I added the cover too.... I think it is sooooo cute.


----------



## Magenta

Anne said:


> Is anyone going to order the Nook? I having a feeling a lot of Nooks will be returned. I am not getting one I was wondering if anyone is going to buy one. Some people have already canceled their pre-order.


My kindle 2 is only 8 months old and works perfectly fine. There is nothing offered with the Nook (or any other ereader) at this time to entice me to spend $250 on a new device.

Only when my kindle is stone cold dead will I buy a new ereader.


----------



## luvmy4brats

That cover is really cute.


----------



## jsadd

I have had a K1 from the start & I have been thinking of getting another reader for when she gives out. I thought about the Nook, But when I read that I could not use my B&N membership card for E-books or the Nook, I decided against it. I'm not sure why I can get a discount on paper books but not E-books. I won't be renewing my membership card again. I ordered a K2 (USA)
and I am looking forward to playing with it.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> I will confess that when I put nook on my Christmas wish list, I added the cover too.... I think it is sooooo cute.


I love this cover I wish I could get it for my K2


----------



## Anne

luvmy4brats said:


> I thought about ordering one, but it just didn't grab me enough that I had to have it. I do plan on playing with it at the store when it comes out. There are some features that I like though.


I plan on playing with it when it comes out too.


----------



## lisa.m

Isn't anyone turned off by the ebook prices on B&N? That's enough to make me say no thanks right there.


----------



## Anne

lisa.m said:


> Isn't anyone turned off by the ebook prices on B&N? That's enough to make me say no thanks right there.


Yes I am that is another reason not to get the Nook,


----------



## Anne

Another thing I wonder about is if they will have a  page like the Manage your Kindle page,


----------



## Casse

Nope, I've been trying to decide which e-reader to buy for the last few weeks and I finally decided on a Kindle 2  

The price comparison on ebooks that I would purchase between Amazon and B&N pushed me to the Kindle. 

We went to a B&N today and the only thing about the Nook in the store was a paper a little booklet that the rep said was the same size as the Nook (same picture as online). Nothing in store to see until Nov 30th - bummer but oh well I can't wait for my Kindle


----------



## LisaW.

lisa.m said:


> Isn't anyone turned off by the ebook prices on B&N? That's enough to make me say no thanks right there.


While I admit that the Nook is really nice looking, there's no way that I'd replace my kindle. When I first started looking at e-readers, I went with the kindle because I asked myself, "Where can I get the best e-book selection at the best price?". The obvious answer was, and still is, Amazon, so there's no reason for me to change. As I've stated is other posts in regards to B&N, they're too expensive. I never buy books in their store, and the only way you get the online mass market paperback discount is if you've shelled out the $25 annual fee. While I love to browse their stores, and sit in their Starbucks cafes, B&N markets to people have a much larger income than myself.


----------



## gdae23

I'm waiting to see if Apple enters the eReader market, as rumored. I'm basically happy with my Kindle2, but I've been unhappy from day one that there's no native file/folder management system. I use Calibre and I'm glad that's out there, but it's fairly primitive and awkward to use compared to something like iTunes.  For people who are not familiar with iTunes, you can very easily edit field entries, sort on many many different fields online, make playlists (which are essentially folders) and even folders of playlists. (So you'd have folders and nested folders.) Then when you have it the way you like, sync it to the iPod. (or in this case, the eReader.) 

To answer the original question, I doubt I'll buy a Nook. I have so much unread material on my Kindle already (including many free books and several of those $4.79 classic author anthologies) that I don't really need another source for books. There's nothing about what I've read so far that really makes me want to go out and buy one, although I'd probably test it out if I happen upon it in the B&N store. (It is a 
!!!NEW GADGET!!!, after all!   


P.S. Someone recently gave me a B&N gift card they felt they wouldn't use. I've been trying to find things to buy with it, but every book or other item I've checked so far is several dollars cheaper on Amazon, so I feel reluctant to pay the higher price at B&N, just so I can use the card there.


----------



## parakeetgirl

I have nothing against the Nook..if it can bring more people into the whole Ebook thing, great. But I was actually at a B&N today and one of the sales people was pushing that thing like nobody's business. There was a guy there and she's telling him that the Nook has the Kindle beat hands down. Really pushing the wireless download thing as if Kindle didn't have it. Then she's trying to tell him that the books will be cheaper on the B&N site. From what I've been hearing - their ebooks will be about the same price as Amazon's and maybe more expensive in some cases..The guy was pretty smart though..was asking all the right questions and seemed knowledgeable about Kindles and how the Nook would compare.

I had to walk away, because we were going to have a little "incident" if I stayed any longer!  Plus, I can just see her trying to start that spiel with me and me shouting "Kindles Rule!!!" Could be a little embarrassing..


----------



## lmk2045

No. I have no interest in buying a nook. Nook has more negatives than positives for me. Several of them that stand out for me are the lack of support for Audible files and word documents, the inability to purchase eBooks with gift cards, the LendMe option is extremely limited and virtually worthless, higher book prices, and 3G provided by AT&T, which is very poor in my area. Despite offering replaceable battery, the nook’s battery life is less than the Kindle. In addition, B&N charges sales tax and a 10% restocking fee if you return the nook within 14 days.


----------



## Scheherazade

parakeetgirl said:


> I have nothing against the Nook..if it can bring more people into the whole Ebook thing, great. But I was actually at a B&N today and one of the sales people was pushing that thing like nobody's business.


That's what has me worried. I really wish Amazon would get the Kindle into some sort of Brick and Mortar store, but it looks like one of the main reasons they haven't is because every store and their brother plan on trying to come out with their own reader. But having sales people mislead or leave out important information to folks who aren't savvy or up to date on things online is going to be a huge advantage for them.


----------



## Chris W

I don't think analysts are very impressed by the Nook, or for that matter all of B&N's e-book plans. This week alone, after the Nook was announced, B&N's stock is down about 10%. Amazon had their earnings announcement, & it was all Kindle good news. Week to date, AMZ is up about 25%.
As the market leader, the Kindle gets free publicity every time it's mentioned along with the Nook. Since most existing e-book owners are Kindlers, they are automatically more likely to recommend that brand to a friend or family member interested in the format. I do believe that more e-book consumers = better prices on hardware and content in the future, on all platforms.


----------



## Patricia

As an example of prices, I was shocked to see that the "Sookie Stackhouse 8 volume set" for the Nook is $51.13 at B&N and $29.58 on Amazon!


----------



## Selcien

Patricia said:


> As an example of prices, I was shocked to see that the "Sookie Stackhouse 8 volume set" for the Nook is $51.13 at B&N and $29.58 on Amazon!


What I find to be even more worrisome are the pricing inconsistencies that Barnes & Noble have. Take Sookie Stackhouse, book 1 and books 3 to 8 have a price of $7.99. Book 2? It comes in at a whopping $19.96. 

And then there's the second part of The Lord of the Rings. They have The Two Towers double listed. The first one you'll see is being sold for $14.99, $5 more than the other two parts, scroll down a bit and you'll find the second listing for $9.99.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Selcien said:


> What I find to be even more worrisome are the pricing inconsistencies that Barnes & Noble have.


To be frank, that doesn't sound that much different from Amazon. 

Betsy


----------



## lmk2045

From the B&N eBooks Help Board - http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/eBooks-Help-Board/Buy-ebooks-with-a-giftcard/m-p/393340#U393340

Topic: Buy ebooks with a giftcard

B&N will NOT allow gift cards to purchase ebooks so that scratched out a gift for my son who is in the Navy and stationed overseas but with internet access.

B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase gift cards. Duhhhh, dumb.

B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase the Nook, or Nook accessories.

B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase ebooks for the Nook or any other reader for that matter.


----------



## Selcien

Betsy the Quilter said:


> To be frank, that doesn't sound that much different from Amazon.
> 
> Betsy


I thought someone might say that, which is why I didn't post that last night, but then I figured that I won't know for 100% sure if someone would if I didn't go ahead and post it (you can't be corrected if you keep things to yourself.  )

I've had issues with Amazon's search feature (I was doing a search on the In Death series in the Kindle section last night so I could do a price comparison and one of the searches turned up as few as four books, horrible) but I've never run into that kind of price inconsistency at Amazon, and hopefully I won't in the future as I wouldn't respond to it well at all.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

lmk2045 said:


> From the B&N eBooks Help Board - http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/eBooks-Help-Board/Buy-ebooks-with-a-giftcard/m-p/393340#U393340
> 
> Topic: Buy ebooks with a giftcard
> 
> B&N will NOT allow gift cards to purchase ebooks so that scratched out a gift for my son who is in the Navy and stationed overseas but with internet access.
> 
> B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase gift cards. Duhhhh, dumb.
> 
> B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase the Nook, or Nook accessories.
> 
> B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase ebooks for the Nook or any other reader for that matter.


I wouldn't expect someone to be allowed to buy a discounted gift card. If the person receiving the gift card then buys something using a membership discount, the discount has in effect been applied twice to the same item. I can't think of any discount I've ever been entitled to anywhere that was allowed to be used for a gift card. 

Not being able to use the B&N discount on the Nook IS dumb.

Betsy


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Selcien said:


> I thought someone might say that, which is why I didn't post that last night, but then I figured that I won't know for 100% sure if someone would if I didn't go ahead and post it (you can't be corrected if you keep things to yourself.  )


Aww, Selcien, it wasn't so much a correction to you as a little poke at Amazon.  

Betsy


----------



## Anne

Lisanr said:


> I thought this cover was charming! I ordered it (I have pre-ordered the nook) but then cancelled it. As cute as it is I really couldn't see spending $85 on a canvas cover. You are paying for the Kate Spade name only. So I ordered a nice looking leather cover for $30 instead. I do love the covers they already have available. It was hard deciding. What I do like is how many nice covers they have for $30 plus the ability to change the backs of the nook. I plan to order a blue back. I imagine I will be reading with it out of the case often. It looks comfortable to hold. One thing I didn't like when the k2 came out is you either spend $30 for the boring black cover or $100 for the cole haan designer ones. There should have been more in the $30 range that looked nice.


Let us know what you think of the Nook when you get it. You are right they cover is cute but you are paying for the Kate Spade name.


----------



## Selcien

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Aww, Selcien, it wasn't so much a correction to you as a little poke at Amazon.
> 
> Betsy


But it was a correction and considering that I had felt that Amazon had the advantage, it was one that I needed to hear (I don't mind being corrected, in fact, I actually prefer being corrected than to go on being wrong). 

What tempts me into jumping ship is the Plastic Logic QUE, which will be connected to Barnes & Noble (hence my interest in their pricing), unfortunately I'm getting mixed information regarding the reader. Some articles make it seem that the 8.5 x 11 is the size of the entire unit (not that much bigger than the DX, so not worth bothering with), other articles make it seem that that is the size of the actual display (huge difference). I feel that the display the DX uses is too small and I would love to have a larger display.

I cannot unspend the money I've already spent, but I can refrain from buying any more e-books until I decide what to do. If I can make a decision based on the store fronts then I won't have to wait until the QUE comes out (granted, I should look at other store fronts as well, rather than just the two obvious ones). I thought that I had found something that shifted things in favor of Amazon but I clearly haven't.


----------



## mindreader

lisa.m said:


> Isn't anyone turned off by the ebook prices on B&N? That's enough to make me say no thanks right there.


Yes. B&N was my main source for books before I ordered my Kindle, but I used their discount card (& sales table) pretty heavily in order to keep things affordable. I'd never had a reason to purchase their ebooks but when I made the decision to buy an ereader, the fact that the Kindle's books were cheaper than the B&N ones I'd recently purchased (both the discounted DTBs AND their e-versionS) just made my decision to go Kindle that much easier.


----------



## luvmy4brats

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Not being able to use the B&N discount on the Nook IS dumb.
> 
> Betsy


^^what she said^^


----------



## The Atomic Bookworm

lmk2045 said:


> From the B&N eBooks Help Board - http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/eBooks-Help-Board/Buy-ebooks-with-a-giftcard/m-p/393340#U393340
> 
> Topic: Buy ebooks with a giftcard
> 
> B&N will NOT allow gift cards to purchase ebooks so that scratched out a gift for my son who is in the Navy and stationed overseas but with internet access.
> 
> B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase gift cards. Duhhhh, dumb.
> 
> *B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase the Nook, or Nook accessories.*
> 
> *B&N will NOT allow membership discounts be used to purchase ebooks for the Nook or any other reader for that matter.*


And with _those_ two things alone the Nook is officially D.O.A.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I do want to point out that there are members here who are interested in the Nook and find the differences between it and the Kindle intriguing enough to have pre-ordered it or they are planning on ordering it eventually.  So there must be something B&N is doing right.

It's a brave new world out there for book related businesses.  There are bound to be bumps in the road.  I have to believe B&N is going to rethink some of their decisions due to public pressure just as Amazon has.

Betsy


----------



## Anne

Here is a comparsion Chart between the Nook and the Kindle. I hope the link works.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/compare/

And here is the link to what comes in the box http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/features/techspecs/


----------



## Scheherazade

Of course since that chart is on Barnes and Noble's site it might be just a bit slanted   The million books available and free ebooks ones are especially misleading.


----------



## Chris W

Selcien said:


> What tempts me into jumping ship is the Plastic Logic QUE, which will be connected to Barnes & Noble (hence my interest in their pricing), unfortunately I'm getting mixed information regarding the reader. Some articles make it seem that the 8.5 x 11 is the size of the entire unit (not that much bigger than the DX, so not worth bothering with), other articles make it seem that that is the size of the actual display (huge difference). I feel that the display the DX uses is too small and I would love to have a larger display.


According to this CrunchGear article, Plastic Logic will announce the release date of the Que in January at CES. Not really good timing for the holidays. But it does sound like they are really trying to attract a business user, with all the native document support.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/10/19/plastic-logics-que-e-reader-one-for-the-businesspeople-in-the-audience-apparently/


----------



## 1131

I was at B & N today.  They seem to be really pushing the Nook.  The people in the store were giving the same misleading information about the Kindle as they have in the chart.  Since none of them had seen a Kindle I don't think they new the information was misleading.  I am interested in seeing the Nook but don't think I will buy it.  The prices in the B & N ebook store are generally the same or more than at Amazon and my Libraries do not carry ebooks at this time.  I do miss having my book covers in color but that feature is not worth $259 to me.  And the name puts me off too.
  
Off topic: I did see my 1st Sony Reader at Best Buy today.  They had the touch and pocket edition.  I wasn't impressed by either one.  Turning the page on the touch took a lot of pressure and I had to slide my finger half way across the page.  The finger prints were also an issue for me.


----------



## Scheherazade

Am I bad for wanting to go to Barnes and Noble with my Kindle and waiting for one of them to approach me with their spiel?  I want to see how they counter questions from folks who know better than to believe their claims about books not available on the Kindle.  I wonder if they'll let me buy it then return it used 30 days later when I decide I don't like it.

And the box... doesn't thrill me at all.  Looks like they tried to go minimalist like the Kindle packaging but it doesn't have any of that odd sense of fantasy and entering a magical world that the Kindle box somehow evoked in me.  Plus the colors inside remind me too much of the ugly hallway they used to have in our Toys R' Us before you got inside the store.  It always creeped me out... then again it also reminds me of that fruit stripe gum with the zebra on it... and that was really good!


----------



## 1131

Scheherazade said:


> Am I bad for wanting to go to Barnes and Noble with my Kindle and waiting for one of them to approach me with their spiel? I want to see how they counter questions from folks who know better than to believe their claims about books not available on the Kindle. I wonder if they'll let me buy it then return it used 30 days later when I decide I don't like it.
> 
> And the box... doesn't thrill me at all. Looks like they tried to go minimalist like the Kindle packaging but it doesn't have any of that odd sense of fantasy and entering a magical world that the Kindle box somehow evoked in me. Plus the colors inside remind me too much of the ugly hallway they used to have in our Toys R' Us before you got inside the store. It always creeped me out... then again it also reminds me of that fruit stripe gum with the zebra on it... and that was really good!


I did correct some of the mistakes about the Kindle like not having access to all the classics and that it doesn't matter if the Nook supports Library books because our local libraries don't have ebooks. You are right about the packaging (more so on the K1 than the K2) but I do like some of their covers.

I think the hallway is one of the reasons Toys R US is now Babies R Us around here. And that gum, one of my favorites.


----------



## eneisch

I will not be buying a Nook.  Through reading all the posts there is not enough there to make me make a format change.  I'll wait to see what Amazon has in store for later versions.  I think the competition the Nook will cause will make Amazon strive to bring out something more advanced sooner than later.

I am also waiting to see what the rumored Apple tablet will be like.  If Kindle for Mac works on it I may have some interest!


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Scheherazade said:


> I wonder if they'll let me buy it then return it used 30 days later when I decide I don't like it.


I had read here that there is a 14 day window and a 10% restocking fee for returns.

Betsy


----------



## Anne

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I had read here that there is a 14 day window and a 10% restocking fee for returns.
> 
> Betsy


That is another thing the restocking fee. Amazon get 30 days and no restocking fee.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Well. . .but, again. . .a restocking fee and 14 day return window is more or less industry standard for electronics.  So that's not so much a negative for  the Nook as a positive for Amazon.

And, in a way, it makes sense.  You can see and touch and play with a Nook before you buy it, (well, eventually you'll be able to) so you should have a pretty good idea it's going to work for you before you plunk down the cash.  If you change your mind you're leaving them with a used device that has to be repackaged and resold.  It's possible they're not set up for that as well as Amazon is since they're much less a 'mail order' operation.

But with the Kindle, you're pretty much ordering sight unseen, even considering all the great info found here and the possibility now of meeting up with someone who has one to take a hands on look at it.  So. . . . .it isn't unreasonable for Amazon to have a more generous policy on returns because of the nature of the way they do business.

It's a business decision on the part of Amazon and B&N and it is reasonable to take into consideration when deciding to purchase -- or not.


----------



## happyblob

I have a feeling that one will appear in the house.


----------



## Rasputina

Anne said:


> Is anyone going to order the Nook? I having a feeling a lot of Nooks will be returned. I am not getting one I was wondering if anyone is going to buy one. Some people have already canceled their pre-order.


not buying it, I can read their books on the Barnes and Noble iphone app anyway.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Price aside, are there books at B&N that aren't available on Amazon? If I have a Kindle and an i'Touch with the Kindle App, is there a benefit to getting the B&N app for the i'Touch?

Betsy


----------



## Jesslyn

As much as I loved my K1, that experience has probably put me off Gen 1 of any other ereaders.  But I really wasn't all that impressed with the nookie.  Maybe it'll be different in person, but I do not like that 2nd screen at all.  I like their light, though I don't like the plain black case its in.

Is if me or is color on the back kinda dumb?  You read the thing from the other side.  Do I just not get it?


----------



## 1131

I downloaded the B & N reader to my computer and have been perusing their store.  I have not found anything I have been interested in at B & N that isn't available at Amazon, Baen or Feedbooks.


----------



## Anne

I went into the Barnes and Noble on 2289 Broadway in Manhatten today to ask about
The Nook. They were happy to give me a pamplet. They said they were going to have a working demo unit by the end of this week. People will be able to try it and there will be someone there to show you how it works. They also will be selling the nook in this B&N.  They said they will have them  in all the stores that do  a lot of business. Some of there smaller stores will not have them in the store


----------



## Rasputina

You know, I will say one thing about barnes and nobles website, at least I can choose historical fiction as a genre and then find sub genres for medieval, renaissance, 19th century, 20th century, ancient greece, ancient rome, ancient egypt, china-historical fiction, christian-historical fiction, colonial africa, colonial india, elizabethan, napoleanic ect ect ect all on the same page.

Amazon really needs to have better categorizing.


----------



## Patrizia

I been checking on this too. I am a gadget geek but i never adopt to hardware or software within the first six months , for example even after getting my Iphone there were constant updates.. I love the idea of this but I am going to wait as well.. see if they do have any bug issues, and how they address them.  I also have a HUGE library with my K2 and my DX and never use my K1 anymore.. so I don't need another e reader.

I like the layout and many of the features but I think I will wait six months to a year and see how it all pans out , its not like its going to leave the planet if it does well.. my guess is by then another version will be out and maybe even cheaper. By that time we may be seeing another kindle in the works.. 

../this will force them to stay competitive... I like that as well..

Also my Iphone has an app for B&N and it looks like the books are more expensive , again that may change with the new release


----------



## Meemo

Jesslyn said:


> As much as I loved my K1, that experience has probably put me off Gen 1 of any other ereaders. But I really wasn't all that impressed with the nookie. Maybe it'll be different in person, but I do not like that 2nd screen at all. I like their light, though I don't like the plain black case its in.
> 
> Is if me or is color on the back kinda dumb? You read the thing from the other side. Do I just not get it?


It is, I suppose, like having a skin on the back of your Kindle or iPhone or other device. If you keep it in a cover at all times, like I do my K1, then there's not much purpose for it. But if you read with it out of the cover, it's a nice touch, especially if it's a little rubberized, might make it a little less slippery. I'd probably do it. If I were buying one. Which I'm not.


----------



## Good Old Neon

A pretty interesting and equally disturbing article regarding B&N's future is available on Slate.com's, The Big Money.

Excerpt:

Barnes & Noble (BKS) held a slick press event earlier this week to announce its new Nook digital reader. William Lynch, president of online business, was justifiably pleased as he stood cradling the cute arrival. But even though the Nook offers improvements that trounce the Kindle, it is hard not to see the device as a doomsday machine that could destroy B&N's beleaguered business.

Here's the problem: Barnes & Noble sells books, but it's not in the same business as Amazon. The Kindle improves Amazon's (AMZN) business in every way. The Nook will put pressure on a structural weakness in B&N's business plan, toppling a flailing operation.

Link to the article in its entirety - http://www.thebigmoney.com/features/kindle-chronicles/2009/10/22/nook-doom?page=full
.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Good Old Neon said:


> "But even though the Nook offers improvements *that trounce the Kindle*, it is hard not to see the device as a doomsday machine that could destroy B&N's beleaguered business."
> 
> Link to the article in its entirety - http://www.thebigmoney.com/features/kindle-chronicles/2009/10/22/nook-doom?page=full
> .


Huh? I just don't get it...

I get that there are features that are appealing to some people, even if they aren't compelling to me, but I don't get why so many of these reporters think it "trounces" the Kindle.

Betsy


----------



## Good Old Neon

Agreed.


----------



## Jesslyn

I caught the phrase "They'll be able to browse inside a book for up to an hour on each title". I wonder if he's correct? If so, their two _biggest_ supposed Kindle Killers are navel lint - lending a book and reading (the entire) book have both fallen flat.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

I don't buy "trounce the Kindle", but that was really a throw away comment just as part of introducing his main point.  Apart from that, he makes some interesting points about what effect the the device might have and the two companies relative abilities to support the experiment with their existing infrastructure, if you will.

It'll be interesting to see, whatever happens.


----------



## pidgeon92

Predicting the future is tough, if I could do it I'd be sipping cocktails on a beach in the Riviera right now.

I have to say that I am very intrigued with nook, and I will be getting one at Christmas. I am interested to see what B&N will do as far as marketing e-books, and tying them in with other promotions. I've always liked their stores, more than I like Border's or any of the other larger book stores, and I can see myself wandering in there more often than I do now. At the very least, they will probably end up selling me a latté in the coffee shop.


----------



## Chris W

The iPod wasn't the first MP3 player, nor has it even been the best designed nor best priced player over the years. Apple conquered the market because they had the best integration of content and player early in the life of the market. Amazon has done that with the Kindle, leapfrogging early e-readers, and might have such a dominant position in the market that new products won't be able to make a significant dent.
I used to go to book stores regularly, but Amazon took me out of that habit first with cheap prices and easy shipping of DTB's, and now with electronic delivery of Kindle content. Brick and Mortar bookstores have lost me forever, and probably many others as well. The Nook might be too little too late.


----------



## Rasputina

huh?

While their theory has proven true for me with CDs vs digital music a la iTunes, that is not the case with books. I still buy more books in DTB form than I do ebooks. Sure I buy them from Amazon most of the time. But I already was buying my stuff from Amazon before kindle ever came out, due to their vastly superior selection and my eclectic tastes that can't be served well in a mainstream bricks and mortar bookstore.


----------



## Chris W

Rasputina said:


> huh?
> 
> While their theory has proven true for me with CDs vs digital music a la iTunes, that is not the case with books. I still buy more books in DTB form than I do ebooks. Sure I buy them from Amazon most of the time. But I already was buying my stuff from Amazon before kindle ever came out, due to their vastly superior selection and my eclectic tastes that can't be served well in a mainstream bricks and mortar bookstore.


It took Apple 7 years for the iTunes store to become the number one music retailer in the world (surpassing CD sales at Wal-Mart, Target, et al.), so it's not surprising that e-books are still lagging behind the DTB. We've got a ways to go before they become ubiquitous. However, I think my comparison is still valid, the momentum that Amazon has behind the Kindle will be hard to stop.


----------



## Forster

Rasputina said:


> huh?
> 
> While their theory has proven true for me with CDs vs digital music a la iTunes, that is not the case with books. I still buy more books in DTB form than I do ebooks. Sure I buy them from Amazon most of the time. But I already was buying my stuff from Amazon before kindle ever came out, due to their vastly superior selection and my eclectic tastes that can't be served well in a mainstream bricks and mortar bookstore.


I don't know, I'd be willing to bet most people who have moved over to the kindle have seriously cut back if not eliminated DTB purchases. I got my K2 when it first came out, zero DTB purchases since then. Unless it's a book that doesn't lend itself to e-format or a book I absolutely must have (unlikely) and isn't available in e-format I don't see myself ever buying DTB's again.


----------



## Selcien

I can understand how e-books could hurt a brick 'n mortar based store like B&N, but that's going to happen regardless of whether B&N releases an e-reader themselves. So how is it worse for B&N to put up their own e-book storefront with their own e-reader so that they can get a share of the money from the move to e-books, when not doing so means that they would simply be standing aside getting a big fat zero from e-books while everyone else got the money?

B & N seems destined to have to restructure their business model (less stores/smaller stores), but I'd think that the more that they can make from their online presence the better off they will be.


----------



## Scheherazade

The replaceable color back is just another example of their strategy of adding useless "features" to fluff up their marketing ads.  It's another thing the Kindle doesn't have and more checkmarks on their side of their highly one-sided feature chart means they win!  My guess is they'll just end up with a warehouse full of colored bits of plastic, not that it'll cost them much except space.

Though this is from someone who thinks the color -screen- is dumb too.


----------



## Selcien

Chris W said:


> According to this CrunchGear article, Plastic Logic will announce the release date of the Que in January at CES. Not really good timing for the holidays. But it does sound like they are really trying to attract a business user, with all the native document support.
> http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/10/19/plastic-logics-que-e-reader-one-for-the-businesspeople-in-the-audience-apparently/


I signed up for the QUE News Alert and the bit about the premiere was the first part they covered in the email that I received.

"Plastic Logic premieres QUE™, the first proReader designed specifically with professionals in mind, on January 7, 2010 at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas. You can visit us at booth 11840 in the Central Hall of Las Vegas Convention Center, anchoring the e-Book Techzone."


----------



## pidgeon92

Interestingly, I hadn't purchased any books - besides a few cookbooks and a few non-fiction books - for years prior to buying my Kindle. I had been almost exclusively a public library user for much of the last two decades. The first few months I had my Kindle, I still got a majority of my books from the library, it is only since about February that I began purchasing several novels.

If I had to guess, I would say I bought about 40 novels this year.... that would be 40 more than I bought last year. No doubt next year I will buy at least the same amount, if not more. The convenience of not having to drive back and forth to the library, and not have to keep track of how long I have kept a book - for me - trumps the additional cost.


----------



## Rasputina

Forster said:


> I don't know, I'd be willing to bet most people who have moved over to the kindle have seriously cut back if not eliminated DTB purchases. I got my K2 when it first came out, zero DTB purchases since then. Unless it's a book that doesn't lend itself to e-format or a book I absolutely must have (unlikely) and isn't available in e-format I don't see myself ever buying DTB's again.


That seems to be true for people where the majority of their reading is fiction.

As someone who reads much more non fiction though that isn't the case for me. I don't want to try and navigate my Oxford Classical Dictionary on kindle for example, if it was even available in ebook. I tried that with a similar format dictionary on kindle and it was a nightmare to navigate and find what I wanted, so I returned it. I have a ton of non fiction that is not available in ebook and even if it was I prefer it in DTB.

My ebook purchases tend to be fiction that I will probably only read once, and a few books that I want to have with me all the time. I have 2 ebook bibles for example and a couple of my all time favorite fiction that I have in multiple forms, DTB, ebook and audiobook.

Plus I don't ever have to worry about licensing limits, format compatibility or having my ebook deleted, once I buy my DTB I have it forever, provided I don't lose it myself.


----------



## Rasputina

Selcien said:


> I can understand how e-books could hurt a brick 'n mortar based store like B&N, but that's going to happen regardless of whether B&N releases an e-reader themselves. So how is it worse for B&N to put up their own e-book storefront with their own e-reader so that they can get a share of the money from the move to e-books, when not doing so means that they would simply be standing aside getting a big fat zero from e-books while everyone else got the money?
> 
> B & N seems destined to have to restructure their business model (less stores/smaller stores), but I'd think that the more that they can make from their online presence the better off they will be.


You know for me, the main reason that I rarely go to B&N is because the selection is very limited, compared to Amazon. Their history section is tiny. I might find 3-4 books on a specific subject. Plus I can get out of print stuff easily on Amazon buy getting it used. The one thing B&N has going for it is their self publishing.


----------



## VictoriaP

Rasputina--you hit it on the head about fiction vs. non fiction readers.  I do read a LOT more fiction, and the only paper books I've purchased since I got the K2 were purchased as gifts for other people.  They were all bought from Amazon, BTW, because I have Prime, so they can be direct shipped for free.

I've been in a DTB store twice since February, and I suspect I'm pretty characteristic of the average Kindle user that way.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

For me, non-fiction vs fiction doesn't really matter.  Reference works, yes, I can see having them as paper books, but the last two ebooks I bought were nonfiction.  In fact, I think I've bought more $10 non-fiction ebooks than I have fiction.  I've bought a lot of fiction, but they've mostly been bargains or freebies.

I really lose interest fast if it's not available for the Kindle.  I was looking for Patty Wagstaff's autobiography on Kindle (stunt pilot who gave a presentation I was at) and it wasn't there.  I won't be getting the paper version.



Betsy


----------



## jason10mm

There is some damage an e-book reader can do to a B&M store. E-book purchasers typically represent the high volume book readers, no point in making the up front investment in an e-book reader if you only read 2-3 books a year when on vacation. So while e-book reader penetration into the book market may only be 1-2% of all readers, they represent a much higher percentage of books SOLD.

A bookstore is really a losing operation. They must maintain a huge inventory of slow selling titles or they will lose sales to the online retailers (if you have to wait anyway, might as well save on taxes), and outside of the few popular titles at any one time they have to devote lots of shelf space to try for impulse buys (I do miss nice cover art on the Kindle), so they either need lots of space or must select which titles to highlight.

Amazon benefits from this because they don't maintain any storefronts. I could easily see lots of B&M stores having to downsize if e-books really take off, they won't be able to maintain the large back inventory and will instead scale down to something like the Waldenbooks in the malls, a much smaller footprint focusing on the popular titles and books that have an appeal beyond e-books, stuff like illustrated coffee table books, graphically intense technical manuals, lavish special editions, etc.

The Nook itself probably isn't a huge threat to B&N, assuming they make money off the device and off the e-books, it is a way to recapture revenue going to amazon/sony. Their B&M stores are going to suffer e-book sales theft whether the Nook exists or not. 

What we the CONSUMER needs is a unified, standardized DRM so e-books can be bought from any source and read on any reader. This will allow for e-book price wars which will benefit us. Otherwise I'm worried that amazon/B&N will eventually corner the market, drive out the other e-book sellers, and then raise prices. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to break B&N, Sony, or amazon DRM, but it would be much nicer if we didn't have to worry about it. I have more confidence in amazon surviving a bad economy than B&N. If any of those companies goes down, then as far as I can tell our e-books become orphans dependent on an aging technical device to be read.


----------



## mindreader

Interesting, since Gizmodo is reporting that not all B&N stores will have the Nook for sale.  You'll be able to buy the device only at certain stores - at the others, they'll order it for you online (?) and have it shipped to you.

Not sure what that says about B&N's vision of their future, but seems weird to me.  Especially since the "brick and mortar" aspect was supposed to be one of the Nook's advantages over Amazon/Kindle... in theory, anyway.

Update: Gizmodo provided an update to their story.  Seems it's more of a timing/rollout/stocking issue than a deliberate decision to permanently not stock certain stores.  That makes more sense, though not having everything/every location up and running in time for the holidays can't be ideal.


----------



## mwb

mindreader said:


> Not sure what that says about B&N's vision of their future, but seems weird to me. Especially since the "brick and mortar" aspect was supposed to be one of the Nook's advantages over Amazon/Kindle... in theory, anyway.


Yeah, a lot of the Nook's advantages so far seem to be more theoretical than actual. About the only actual ones I see are user replaceable battery and extra memory card slot - I was really hoping for some more substantial ones like folders/tags, supporting more formats rather than less (maybe DRM-free books), cheaper ebook prices, etc. The sort of thing that would inspired amazon to make similar changes which I've been wanting in the Kindle.


----------



## BTackitt

mwb said:


> Yeah, a lot of the Nook's advantages so far seem to be more theoretical than actual. About the only actual ones I see are user replaceable battery and extra memory card slot.


And with my K1, I have those.. so there is NO advantage.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

For me, the advantage would be to be able to access additional formats, but until I see how it does with PDF and whether library books can be accessed, it doesn't interest me.

Betsy


----------



## ElaineOK

To me, the real question has not to dow with the Nook, per se.  The real question is will B&N really embrace ebooks and build a business plan around them or is this just an attempt not to be left behind when they have no idea where they are going?  I can see reinventing the concept of a bookstore to be basically a big coffee shop where you can browse whatever you want to look at by wireless, maybe access referral services, special order DTB's and then download the ebooks either there or at home.  

I don't see starting an ebook business but planning on keeping the dtb business exactly has it has been done forever being a viable plan.

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


----------



## Forster

The nook in and of itself isn't going to hurt Barnes & Noble's traditional B&M business.  E-books as a whole are going to be the death knell of B&M bookstores and the DTB publishing industry.  Seriously the B&M stores are the walking dead, there may be a few niche stores left at some time in the future but the handwriting is on the wall they are going to start folding.


----------



## Selcien

Well, if Barnes & Noble selling one e-reader is bad for them then I'm thinking it will be even worse when they're selling two, meaning that Barnes & Noble will be selling Plastic Logic's Que.

http://www.plasticlogic.com/news/pr_quedistributedbybarnesandnoble_oct272009.php


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

It seems to me that the two readers are aimed at different markets.  Frankly, the Que sounds more interesting to me than the Nook, with the wide range of formats it will read....interesting.

Betsy


----------



## meljackson

I guess I won't be getting one after all. I just read on the message boards over there that it will not work with library ebooks. I was so hoping it would!

Melissa


----------



## HappyGuy

"For me, the advantage would be to be able to access additional formats, but until I see how it does with PDF and whether library books can be accessed, it doesn't interest me."

Betsy, I think (could be wrong) the nook reads ePub files - isn't that the file format librarys use?

I sure wish everyone would decide on a standard file format. This is like having to buy a different CD palyer for each CD lable!!


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

FearNot said:


> Betsy, I think (could be wrong) the nook reads ePub files - isn't that the file format librarys use?
> 
> I sure wish everyone would decide on a standard file format. This is like having to buy a different CD palyer for each CD lable!!


I thought so, but from what I read, there's still some question.

Betsy


----------



## pidgeon92

The issue with library e-books is that there is DRM involved. If nook uses the same PID that is required to open a library book, there is no problem. If the PID needs to be changed somehow, that will be an issue.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Well, for example, I can have three PIDs with my library system.  I would just make the Nook's PID one of them, along with the PC I would use to download the books, and probably my Palm T/X would continue to be one of them.  So, will the Nook have a readily determined PID?

Betsy


----------



## Selcien

FearNot said:


> Betsy, I think (could be wrong) the nook reads ePub files - isn't that the file format librarys use?
> 
> I sure wish everyone would decide on a standard file format. This is like having to buy a different CD palyer for each CD lable!!


From the little bit of research I've done of late EPUB is the format that looks headed towards becoming the standard, the thing of it is that despite the format itself being designed to be completely open, the DRM it gets wrapped in effectively turns it into a proprietary format.

An article I read says that while DRM will cause compatibility issues that there should be ways around those problems. Take Barnes & Noble for example, even though they use EPUB and the Que will be EPUB compatible, a person will have to download B&N's reader software to the device before being able to use any of the ebooks from them. So, I'd think that software downloads will be what opens up a readers compatibility.

Also, just because an online e-book store started with one format doesn't mean that it's stuck with that format. For example, Sony is changing it's e-book store over to the EPUB format by years end (everybody who bought the old format can re-download the new format), and they will be releasing an update for the PRS 500 so that it will become EPUB compatible.

The road is going to be bumpy but I think that they'll figure it out.


----------



## Selcien

Selcien said:


> I feel that the display the DX uses is too small and I would love to have a larger display.


I've changed my mind, at least when it comes to casual reading

To start, the DX display is 5.5 x 8. It's been a while since I've read on it using landscape mode (which effectively makes it about as wide as the Que will be), and I have to say that it's much much too wide, and if it was just as long as the Que will be, it would be way too big for casual reading.

Works out well for me as I can comfortably continue buying books for the DX as there will not be an overlap with the Que, perhaps not so well for Plastic Logic, 'cause if I'm going to buy a reader that compliments the DX then I'd think it'd be best to wait for one that does color, no point in getting a reader that I already know will have to be upgraded. Still will be keeping an eye on it though.


----------



## luvshihtzu

I found this blog so interesting with all the different ereaders coming out.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=8805&tag=nl.e539

I thought the Spring Design - Alex looks rather nice, but it will be one of those wait and see. (If or when and how much it will cost) It looks like a larger glorified Nook.


----------



## kathygnome

There are a lot of unknowns. It uses epub, which is an open standard, but it seems like it will be epub with B&Ns own crypto added in. So will this mean you can use the Nook to read books from any epub store? Will B&N books be readable by other epub based devices?

If it really is open, so I can buy books from a variety of places and move my books to something other than their proprietary device, that's a big plus for me. A big big plus. 

The other big one is the store. Right now, B&N doesn't really have an ebook store. They bought someone and have half integrated it into their own store. They're eventually going to be switching over to the epub format and presumably doing a bunch of other changes. So what we see now for their store is probably not what we'll see later. Will that also include a sweep of price adjustments? Different availability?

What are the limits of the Android OS? Will we be able to add apps? Will those Apps have access to the cellular wireless? Will they have access to WiFi wireless?

The Nook could be an absolutely amazing kindle killer or it could be a paperweight depending on how a few unknowns line up. So far the only unclear thing is the ludicrously limited "loan" feature which is so limited, it actually turns me off. If the rest of those dominos fall in similar fashion as being anti-consumer, then the thing is just a waste of space. If they line up pro-consumer, then it could be a fantastic device still.


----------



## DawnOfChaos

I do find it interesting that other booksellers are taking an interest.  I received an email today from Borders offering a 40% coupon for taking a survey.  Quite a few of the questions were about ebook readers.  Do I have one, do I plan to buy a nook, how many books would I buy, etc.


----------



## Hugh Critz

I think its a good business plan that does not steal their own customers, instead it steals Amazon's customers.  The people that go to B&N stores and decide to buy fewer physical books and get them as ebooks instead are going to do it either with B&N's Nook or Kindle or another device.  Meanwhile, the people that would never (or not in a long time) convert to ereaders are going to stay as is.  It is two different markets, and the B&N is entrenched in one and now trying to step foot in the other with no cannibalism.


----------



## Chris W

Hugh Critz said:


> I think its a good business plan that does not steal their own customers, instead it steals Amazon's customers. The people that go to B&N stores and decide to buy fewer physical books and get them as ebooks instead are going to do it either with B&N's Nook or Kindle or another device. Meanwhile, the people that would never (or not in a long time) convert to ereaders are going to stay as is. It is two different markets, and the B&N is entrenched in one and now trying to step foot in the other with no cannibalism.


I'm not sure it's going to 'steal' that many customers from Amazon. While there are definitely some consumers who will comparison shop between the two devices, I think that B&N is going to use their Brick and Mortar stores to entice impulse purchases (yes, some people will spend that much on an impulse). People who have been extremely price conscious have already quit B&N to move all their book buying to Amazon, which is why the Kindle is the first thing you see whenever you go to the home page. So they are just turning their own customers into e-book buyers, which eliminates the need for them to ever return to the actual store, hence the title of the article.


----------



## Hugh Critz

Chris W said:


> So they are just turning their own customers into e-book buyers, which eliminates the need for them to ever return to the actual store, hence the title of the article.


What I'm saying is that those customers are few. If those customers would have turned into e-book buyers, they would have already done so or will in the near future by buying Kindles. So in effect, B&N is stealing Amazon's future customers. Those that would in the future buy Kindles or are thinking of it.

I think what B&N sees is that their future as a brick & mortar national store is not looking good. They need to get into a different line to stay in business. What better line than something that is somewhat similar? I'm sure if they could start selling computers and make money doing that, they would, but they don't have a foot in the door in that business like they may with ebooks.

In the end, the b&m B&N may falter, but IMO that won't have anything to do with the Nook. It will happen whether the Nook exists or not. What is left over after the b&m stores falter is either having nothing (if they don't get into ebooks) or the ebook business. If you were them, would you rather have nothing at all and declare bankruptcy or try to shift into the ebook business? Easy and good deciison.


----------



## BeastMD

I preordered one because I am a tech whore.  

Really though I will probably cancel it, but figured if I wanted one I better get in there and order one just in case. I am one of the first in line too as I ordered before the page was officially up...


----------



## elbereth

When they first announced the book lending feature I got serious buyers remorse on my DX, but since I learned that it's really a "feature" I'm not keen to hop in.  I do love the new-book-and-coffee smell at the B&N store, and loved the bargain books rack, but since my Kindle came I haven't bought a single DTB, and realized at the B&N cafe last week (where I sat and read my DX, ha ha) that my membership card had lapsed.  So I suppose I've fully crossed over.

I'll keep an open mind, but my wallet's closed for now!


----------



## Varin

I just read somewhere that books bought or loaded from anywhere else other than Barnes and Noble cannot be annotated or highlighted or bookmarked!

Kinda random, but... whose idea was that?

Leme find the place where I read it...


----------



## pidgeon92

I assume you mean on *nook*? I think that is correct... We'll see when they are actually available.


----------



## kindle2fan

Yes, I pre-ordered the Nook. I am definitely interested in how it compares to my Kindle 2. I will be sure to post my thoughts and reviews on my blog.


----------



## MarthaT

I won't be, love my kindle too much


----------



## PaulGuy

kindle2fan said:


> Yes, I pre-ordered the Nook. I am definitely interested in how it compares to my Kindle 2. I will be sure to post my thoughts and reviews on my blog.


Whew! I was beginning to think I was all alone on this one.


----------



## marianneg

I'm not planning on buying one, but I'm very interested in hearing what others think of it.  I'm particularly looking forward to reviews from my fellow Kindlers!


----------



## intinst

marianner said:


> I'm not planning on buying one, but I'm very interested in hearing what others think of it. I'm particularly looking forward to reviews from my fellow Kindlers!


Yes, reviews from first time ereader users will not tell much. I am interested in hearing from people who have used a Kindle.


----------



## happyblob

We've already pre-ordered ours and can't wait! But love doesn't diminish when you have another child - it just multiplies.


----------



## Meemo

happyblob said:


> We've already pre-ordered ours and can't wait! But love doesn't diminish when you have another child - it just multiplies.


 That's what I'm finding since I got the Sony Pocket Reader - love that I can slip it into all my purses and it it's much lighter in there than my Kindle. They're like my 2 daughters - different experiences, but I love them both.


----------



## customizerwannabe

Absolutely. Sold my K2. Removeable battery. Touch screen features. Cheaper unit price. Who wouldn't??


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Well, considering that this is a forum for Kindle enthusiasts, quite a lot of us.    And the reasons why most of us won't have been well explained in this thread.

Moving on....

Betsy


----------



## Shawna

I won't be.  I must admit that if it would have been available when the I bought my K2 I would have considered it but, I suspect (unless something really crazy happens with Amazon in the future) I will always stick with Amazon and upgrade my Kindle as necessary.  I'm glad good competition is coming about now, it should be very interesting where E-readers go from here.


----------



## Meemo

customizerwannabe said:


> Absolutely. Sold my K2. Removeable battery. Touch screen features. Cheaper unit price. Who wouldn't??


Got the removeable battery with my K1. The unit price is the same. Book prices are cheaper with Amazon on the books I've checked (the books I'm interested in reading). So I'll be sticking with my K1 (and my Sony Pocket reader). Will be interesting to see what happens with the Nook (if that lawsuit doesn't go well you might be looking for another K2). In the long run, competition is good for all of us e-reader fans.


----------



## pidgeon92

customizerwannabe said:


> Cheaper unit price.


I don't understand this one.... The K2 and nook are priced at $259.

With e-books being - for the most part - cheaper from Amazon than from B&N, the ultimate cost of nook will be higher.

That said, mine is pre-ordered.


----------



## MidnightAria

My husband wants me to get it for him when it comes out. I told him that he has to wait for the initial reviews and then he can have it for Christmas. He keeps telling me how cool it is compared to the Kindle. I told him, how many books do I read in anything but black and white..none? Free B&N books whenever you go into the store.....umm free Kindle books (multiple ones at that) daily and I can sit at home and order them I love my Kindle2 and this Nook, although it is shiny and new does nothing for me. Kind of reminds me how I feel about my iPhone 3G. I still love it even though its over a year old and have no intentions of upgrading till the 4th generation comes out and my contract is up. I do feel, like other posters, that this is an exciting time for e-reader owners as we will watch the one-upping my producers and we will come out on top with all the new features that we will be seeing in the next few years. Long live Kindle!


----------



## Chad Winters

customizerwannabe said:



> Absolutely. Sold my K2. Removeable battery. Touch screen features. Cheaper unit price. Who wouldn't??


It would take a lot more than that to make me switch. For one thing, I would have to leave behind the triple digit virtual bookshelf I have at Amazon. All for: touch screen that I won't use for reading, a removable battery (which I have on my K1 for 2 years without using at all) and the same price as a K2


----------



## kevindorsey

pidgeon92 said:


> I don't understand this one.... The K2 and nook are priced at $259.
> 
> With e-books being - for the most part - cheaper from Amazon than from B&N, the ultimate cost of nook will be higher.
> 
> That said, mine is pre-ordered.


Its cheaper than DX


----------



## pidgeon92

kevindorsey said:


> Its cheaper than DX


S/he said they sold a K2, not a DX.


----------



## marianneg

kevindorsey said:


> Its cheaper than DX


It's also not as direct of a direct competitor to the DX as it is to the K2.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> I don't understand this one.... The K2 and nook are priced at $259.
> 
> With e-books being - for the most part - cheaper from Amazon than from B&N, the ultimate cost of nook will be higher.
> 
> That said, mine is pre-ordered.


Did you order a cover for it too?


----------



## pidgeon92

Anne said:


> Did you order a cover for it too?


Well - _technically_ - I put it on my Christmas list.... along with the Kate Spade cover.... I hope they both arrive on 12/25!


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> Well - _technically_ - I put it on my Christmas list.... along with the Kate Spade cover.... I hope they both arrive on 12/25!


That will be a nice Christmas Present  I love this Cover.


----------



## Selcien

Patricia said:


> As an example of prices, I was shocked to see that the "Sookie Stackhouse 8 volume set" for the Nook is $51.13 at B&N and $29.58 on Amazon!


Out of fairness to Barnes & Noble, it should be noted that Amazon has increased their price for the Sookie Stackhouse 8 volume set to $49.95.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

OK, so I went to B&N yesterday and talked to the manager who was in the CS booth. Got my Nook brochure, which really doesn't tell you very much. She said it was about the actual size of the Nook, which according to the dimensions listed on the website, is true. Which makes it about the same size as the K1/K2 (a tad taller and maybe 3/8-1/2 inch narrower than my K1. The eInk screen seems to be the same size based on the brochure.

She specifically told me it was similar to the Kindle only better in several ways. (She did not know I owned a Kindle--I was not wearing my Kindleboards t-shirt at the time.) She touted looking at the book covers rather than the list of books that the Kindle has. I pointed out that I could only see five books at at a time but the Kindle had a list of maybe 10, she said I could easily switch to a keyboard and do searches. (Of course, I can use the keyboard on my Kindle to jump to books, too.) She mentioned the million books, and I guess what they're saying is you can access all the books in one place, for the Kindle you have to access more than one source to get the same number of books.

She was very knowledgeable, as far as I can tell. She said she'd been to training... She didn't know anything about the library/Overdrive format questions, however...

She said that at the end of November they will have two in the store to show as demos but not for purchase. When I said the 24th? She said no, the 30th, and that it was always the 30th, the 24th was a leak that was never really the date. And that if you hadn't ordered by Wednesday night (the 5th of November), you wouldn't get yours until after the 11th of December.

Betsy


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Hmmm.  Very interesting. . . .so it sounds like maybe they're NOT selling them in the store.  Or at least not that store. . . .Which B&N were you in?  

It is promising that the person at least did seem to know something more than what was on the piece of paper.


----------



## Varin

FOUND IT!

Basically, i'd read somewhere on the Nook forums that some features would only be available on books purchased from Barnes and Noble.

Lookie;

"Q. Where can I get eBooks for my nook?

X You can access eBooks -- including thousands of free classic titles and bestsellers for $9.99 -- by tapping the Shop button on your nook.* A number of nook features apply only to eBooks purchased through Barnes & Noble.com. These are stored in your online digital library and include: bookmarks, highlighting, notes, *lending, rating, recommending, and cross-platform reading.

WHAT? I understand, like with the kindle that books from other sources aren't backed up by Amazon, fair enough. But not having the ability to make bookmarks, to highlight and make notes?

Are they crazy!?


----------



## Flechette

My hubby is leaning towards the Nook - provided the lawsuit gets resolves 

I'd better warn him to look into the conversions required, he thought he could just move his Baen library over to the Nook np~


I went Kindle - cheaper ebook prices was 1 reason---  also,as I understand it B&N will charge tax on ebooks and the Nook, probably required by law.  So the nook will be $280ish and the $9.99 ebooks about $10.75

and I'm still in mourning for the $29.90 Sookie set now at $49.95~


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Ann in Arlington said:


> Hmmm. Very interesting. . . .so it sounds like maybe they're NOT selling them in the store. Or at least not that store. . . .Which B&N were you in?
> 
> It is promising that the person at least did seem to know something more than what was on the piece of paper.


I was in the B&N in Springfield (near Springfield Mall). She didn't say they wouldn't have them in the story eventually...and I forgot to ask her that, just that they only would have two for demo purposes as of that date. She was pretty knowledgable, it seemed.

Betsy


----------



## Lord of AddersBlack

I just pulled the trigger on the K2.  I was waiting until the Nook came out to compare the two, but the Kindle meets my needs, has cheaper ebooks (at least the ones I want that I checked) and is not a rev A product.  Plus I will get it early next week   Competition is good and hopefully both products continue to improve.


----------



## marianneg

Anarel said:


> X You can access eBooks -- including thousands of free classic titles and bestsellers for $9.99 -- by tapping the Shop button on your nook.* A number of nook features apply only to eBooks purchased through Barnes & Noble.com. These are stored in your online digital library and include: bookmarks, highlighting, notes, *lending, rating, recommending, and cross-platform reading.
> 
> WHAT? I understand, like with the kindle that books from other sources aren't backed up by Amazon, fair enough. But not having the ability to make bookmarks, to highlight and make notes?


I read that as the annotations would not be backed up by B&N online. Less than a month and people will have the actual devices to experiment with instead of speculating.


----------



## Varin

marianner said:


> I read that as the annotations would not be backed up by B&N online. Less than a month and people will have the actual devices to experiment with instead of speculating.


Mm, good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. Still...

Ah well, at least I got to antagonize Readngo over on the Amazon forums a bit....


----------



## mlewis78

Betsy, interesting that the manager at your store was knowledgeable about the Nook.  There is a desk dedicated to the Nook at the B&N near Lincoln Center here.  I was there last Saturday and the man there was nice but didn't really know a lot about it.  I was also surprised that the model they had was a shell of a Nook, so he couldn't even show me the controls.  I asked him whether he'd been shown the real working Nook and he hadn't.  He said that they will have the real thing to look at on November 30th.  I told him that I would come back to look at one.

I told him that I have a kindle and he said he'd never seen one.  I took it out and compared to the side of the dummy model of the Nook.  Showed it to him by opening a book and changing the font size (he had told me about changing font size on the Nook).

I still do not know of any advantages of the Nook over the Kindle.

Apologies if I've already posted about my visit to B&N desk about the Nook.  I know I emailed a friend about it because he wants one.  He thinks he would press the side buttons on the Amazon when he doesn't want to turn pages, but I think he's confusing the K1 with the current K2.  He also doesn't like having a real keyboard and thinks he would accidentally press buttons.  I told him that if he did that while reading that it wouldn't do anything to the page.  I'm not trying to sell him the kindle, but wanted to set the record straight.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I can't really justify a second ereader at this time, but I'm looking.  The native capability to read PDFs and the ePub format interests me, particularly if I can read library books on the device.  Although right now, I have so many books to read on my Kindle, I'm not sure I need the library book feature.  

My husband and I were discussing the "million books vs 350K books" (even though I think it's a bogus comparison).  Really, as I'm unlikely to read even 350K books in my lifetime, that's probably enough as long as they're the right books.  

Betsy


----------



## Meemo

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I can't really justify a second ereader at this time, but I'm looking. The native capability to read PDFs and the ePub format interests me, particularly if I can read library books on the device. Although right now, I have so many books to read on my Kindle, I'm not sure I need the library book feature.
> 
> My husband and I were discussing the "million books vs 350K books" (even though I think it's a bogus comparison). Really, as I'm unlikely to read even 350K books in my lifetime, that's probably enough as long as they're the right books.
> 
> Betsy


I know what you mean - I was intrigued by the Nook when I first saw it but the more I read about it the less intrigued I was. Plus I just couldn't justify a second reader either - until I saw the Sony Pocket reader in the store & kinda fell in lust with it. I started watching them on eBay & lucked into a pretty good deal on one when I bid on one and won it - and I do really like it a lot. I'm still not sure I can totally justify it, but I do really like it for it's smaller size (easily slips into almost any purse) and excellent display, and besides getting a deal on the reader, I got a 30% discount on my SquareTrade warranty *and* found a discounted cover as well. So I got the reader, cover AND warranty for just a couple of dollars more than I'd have paid for just the reader at Best Buy (including tax). And I told my husband my Christmas is taken care of. That's probably justification enough for him!


----------



## chilady1

Check out this article! Very interesting, I hope Amazon can capitalize on this

http://www.i4u.com/article28199.html


----------



## Anju 

Love all the comments about kindle in that article, or ads, whatever.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

I wonder if there will be a "Nookboards"?


----------



## Jesslyn

I'm not buying it.  If the sales are so high, why aren't they just delaying new orders?  I think either the device is not ready or some other mfg snafu.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

If you re-read the article, that is what they're saying...


> According to the WSJ the demand is so high that the shipping date of the nook is getting pushed back for pre-order that come in now to December 11th.
> 
> B&N is quoted saying that the demand for the nook has surpassed their expectations.
> If you have pre-ordered the $259 nook right away you still can expect it to be shipped on November 30th.


This matches what the manager at the B&N in Springfield, VA told me last Thursday.

And there is a Nook board somewhere...I don't remember the exact name.

Betsy


----------



## Atunah

In my opinion they got ahead of themself and never really had enough nooks to send out the end of November so now they can spin it into unexpected high sales. I think that's what happens when a company tries desperately to get a product out there ahead of xmas shopping. Cutting it a bit to close. I agree with Jesslyn on that. 

They'll do fine once they have them actually in stores. They might not cash in on the xmas shopping, but in the long run I don't think that matters all that much.


----------



## Anne

Why was the name of this thread changed instead of starting another thread? The ship date has not been changed. They are still sending out Nooks on  Nov 30. That have got so many orders that the later you order you get a later ship date.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

There was a new thread started. . . . . .I merged it with the existing thread about the nook and left the new topic reflecting new information.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I wonder if there will be a "Nookboards"?


www.nookboards.com

Betsy


----------



## Anne

Jesslyn said:


> I'm not buying it. If the sales are so high, why aren't they just delaying new orders? I think either the device is not ready or some other mfg snafu.


It is the new orders that are delayed. Anyone who ordered right away will have their order ship on Nov 30.


----------



## Chad Winters

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I wonder if there will be a "Nookboards"?


Yeah, Nookieboards.com, but it will get filtered as a


Spoiler



porn


 site so no one will find it...


----------



## mlewis78

I received a Barnes & Noble email today with excerpts of reviews of the Nook.  The email said that if you are just not buying a Kindle that you will have buyer's remorse.  Yet, I don't think that any of the reviewers have had a Nook in their hands to try out.  I was put off by the email.

The problem that B&N is having keeping up with orders sounds just like what Amazon has had with supply a number of times in the past.


----------



## pidgeon92

mlewis78 said:


> I received a Barnes & Noble email today with excerpts of reviews of the Nook.


A lot of html emails have a link that you can click on them so you can see the content in a web browser.... If the B&N email has that, can you post?


----------



## Ann in Arlington

The e-mail just has short quotes Fast Company, wired.com, ZDnet, and Geek.com. . . . .Here's the "view in browser link". . . might show you what it looks like.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/email/hosted.asp?r=1&PID=31808&cm_mmc=Non-Member-_-Merch-_-091109_NF01_nook2-_-na


----------



## pidgeon92

"...passing off a cherished novel to a friend?"

I must be interpreting that quote wrong. I would think that means you give it away, not "lend" it for a single time for no more than 14 days.


----------



## mlewis78

It just doesn't ring true.


----------



## Jason in MA

I received that email as well, and was also wondering if these so-called "critics" had actually received an hands-on.


----------



## mlewis78

I just noticed that Time Magazine included the Nook in its "Best Travel Gadgets of 2009" but not the kindle! It has a lot of little adaptor type gadgets among the list. If you are traveling today, you won't have that Nook. Just goes to show how biased that media lists are.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1933520,00.html

Marti


----------



## The Hooded Claw

mlewis78 said:


> I just noticed that Time Magazine included the Nook in its "Best Travel Gadgets of 2009" but not the kindle!


Kindle is old news, Nook is new news! So the Nook gets the mention, even though it won't be available till the very end of 2009, and nobody independent has yet publicly evaluated it!


----------



## pidgeon92

The comparisons between nook and Kindle really are unfair, until you can compare them side-by-side. B&N can advertise whatever they like, the proof will be in the pudding.

Of course, Amazon did their own fair share of feature touting that didn't exactly pan out.... NowNow is gone, TTS only is enabled sporadically, and the drop test video not a great idea considering how fragile the screens really are.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

mlewis78 said:


> I just noticed that Time Magazine included the Nook in its "Best Travel Gadgets of 2009" but not the kindle! It has a lot of little adaptor type gadgets among the list. If you are traveling today, you won't have that Nook. Just goes to show how biased that media lists are.
> 
> http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1933520,00.html
> 
> Marti


The Nook may be the best thing since indoor plumbing, and I don't know that it's not, but until a reviewer has actually had one in his or her hands, how can they say it's one of the "Best Travel Gadgets of 2009?" I guess it's possible that B&N sent Time's reviewer a preview Nook...

Betsy


----------



## MarthaT

Betsy the Quilter said:


> www.nookboards.com
> 
> Betsy


that didn't take long


----------



## kevindorsey

Betsy the Quilter said:


> The Nook may be the best thing since indoor plumbing, and I don't know that it's not, but until a reviewer has actually had one in his or her hands, how can they say it's one of the "Best Travel Gadgets of 2009?" I guess it's possible that B&N sent Time's reviewer a preview Nook...
> 
> Betsy


Just fluffy advertising if you ask me.


----------



## mlewis78

I just emailed David Pogue of the NY Times to ask whether anyone, including Pogue, have a working Nook to use and read a book for a true review.  I'll let you know if he responds and what he says.  He gets tons of email, so I'm not sure if he will see it soon.

Marti


----------



## mlewis78

Quick response from D. Pogue:

"No, review Nooks have not yet been sent out.

dp"


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Which means any articles even in the tech mags and blogs are based solely on what B&N has said about them.  Fairly meaningless.


----------



## Chad Winters

Wow people just really like the _idea _ of the Nook I guess!!


----------



## luvshihtzu

Not interested in the Nook. Too many limitations. That "Alex" reader that is coming out looks very interesting. It has a nice looking color Internet browser on it. A great picture on gizmodo right now.

http://gizmodo.com/5396857/alex-read...lusty-pictures


----------



## Jason in MA

That _is_ quite similar to the nook.


----------



## MarthaT

I just pre-ordered it today, can't wait to play with it


----------



## kat89447

I would not buy a nook, but I am glad there are other readers out there. I own a k2 and if I got another reader it would be another kindle version because that way I could share the books between them. I am not a fan of touchscreen anything and only because to me they seem to be just one more thing that can break when I have no problem pushing actual buttons. I actually love the fact that the book titles are black and white because then I decide on a book based on content, description and my favorite "the sample". Saves me from picking something just because its got a cool picture or color. 
I live in a very rural area and have been a customer of Amazon since they started. They have been great in the CS area and I trust them. This means something to me and is a big part of why I originally wanted the Kindle. As much as I think it is nice that you can go sit in a B&N and "stream" a book, I live over 80 miles from one and don't have the time to go sit in one and read. Plus I suspect that I will be getting plenty of ads to go with it. It seems to me also that B&N has spent alot of time talking about the "fluff" features and not a lot of time talking about actual features and what it can really do. Things like lending, and book count are suspect at best. I guess I am old fashioned because I don't really care about pdf or converting files, I just want a way to have access to a book store and get books at a reasonable price and it is a bonus that it all comes to me in a tidy package that is completely portable. I know others have other needs, but those are mine. I am sure the nook will have growing pains, but until people actually get it in their hands and actual usage reviews get out we won't know for sure.


----------



## Linda1915

Did you see the article on the right side of the Alex site?

http://gizmodo.com/5395705/barnes--nobles-nook-may-violate-spring-designs-alex-reader-intellectual-property


----------



## Saylorgirl

I have two on order!! I can't wait to see it.  I ordered one to replace my Kindle 2 and one for my daughter for Christmas.  I offered to give my kindle to a friend but she wants a nook, I offered it to my Mom for free but she didn't want it!  I guess I will put her on the bookshelf for now.  Hope it gets here soon I don't want to purchase any new kindle books at this point.


----------



## angelad

Saylorgirl said:


> I have two on order!! I can't wait to see it. I ordered one to replace my Kindle 2 and one for my daughter for Christmas. I offered to give my kindle to a friend but she wants a nook, I offered it to my Mom for free but she didn't want it! I guess I will put her on the bookshelf for now. Hope it gets here soon I don't want to purchase any new kindle books at this point.


YOur K family is growing


----------



## R. M. Reed

Kindle = iPod
Nook = Zune


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Careful, there R. Reed. . . . .Harvey who owns this site also has a Zune site!  


(BTW, I combined the two nook discussion threads into one since this is KINDLEboards.   )


----------



## Good Old Neon

The nook looks like a fine product, however, given that the heart and soul of an e-reader is, essentially, its display, I don’t understand why a Kindle or Sony owner would pay for what is, at heart, a lateral move, or what is gained from doing so. The crippled share feature is slightly ok I guess, but now that the Kindle PC reader has been released, sharing books on the Kindle is a whole lot easier – without the nook’s lend once restriction. 

How does the nook improve upon the reading experience? At the moment, outside of what B&N has divulged, we know very little about the device, the quality of the hardware, e-book pricing, etc – given this reality, placing a pre-order strikes me as a wee bit premature. If I’m not mistaken, following the product’s debut, a video was posted in which a person handling the device was unable to change the text size, and also couldn’t seem to get the page turn to work – not a good sign. Nor is B&N’s reluctance to provide nooks for review.


----------



## mlewis78

The kindle is the standard that other brands, including the Nook, are trying to live up to.  I went on a Nook page in facebook and created a little mischief, but I think I'll give it up.  It's not satisfying and people don't listen.  My gripe is the Nook advertising based on reviewers of the Nook who don't have one.

Does anyone know if there was a real Nook at the press conference in October held by B&N?  A lot of people are assuming that the reviewers got to play with one there.  Still, they didn't read a book on it for more than a minute or so.


----------



## pidgeon92

mlewis78 said:


> Does anyone know if there was a real Nook at the press conference in October held by B&N?


There was, there were pics on Engadget.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/barnes-and-noble-nooks-first-close-up/


----------



## dwaszak

Well said Kat89447!  I'm with you-no interest in a Nook for all the reasons you stated (especially the CS at Amazon) plus, I don't know if some of the 'Nook People"  realize it, but you're going to pay taxes on everything you download because B&N has stores everywhere (I believe you'll pay sales tax on the Nook too). B&N also doesn't have a "Prime" program, which gives you quick delivery on all those accessories. 
We have 4 kindles in our house, with very varied reading tastes, and have bought over 300 books in just the past 10 mos.  That's a lot of sales tax saved that I can put towards more books!


----------



## happyblob

Pre-ordered mine but here's a thought: if amazon comes up with something that supports B&N ebooks and makes it available to buyers outside the US, the nook couldn't compete.


----------



## Saylorgirl

angelad said:


> YOur K family is growing


I'm sorry its two nooks I have on order not kindles. I am doing the switch now!


----------



## Anju 

Yesterday I had a friend showing off her iTouch , she has books from Amazon and B&N on it - the B&N books were free, and she reads only on her touch.  Saying that she also said if she got an e-reader it would be a kindle.  ... just sayin'


----------



## SongbirdVB

Saylorgirl said:


> I have two on order!! I can't wait to see it. I ordered one to replace my Kindle 2 and one for my daughter for Christmas. I offered to give my kindle to a friend but she wants a nook, I offered it to my Mom for free but she didn't want it! I guess I will put her on the bookshelf for now. Hope it gets here soon I don't want to purchase any new kindle books at this point.


If you want to give it away I'll be MORE THAN HAPPY to take it!


----------



## DD

The Hooded Claw said:


> I haven't, and I won't unless hands-on reviews reveal some hidden wondrousness in it.
> 
> My official position is that I won't spend anymore on hardware until folders or some similar method of managing files is included. I might allow myself to be tempted to break that rule by something great in the Nook, but the feature lists released don't suggest anything awesome.
> 
> I'm quite content with the Kindle 2 (though I'm returning the US-based one I ordered in favor of an international one) except for the lack of folders. It meets my needs for a basic ebook reader. I am interested in buying something semi-pocketable for travel, such as the Sony Prs-300, and I'd consider buying something like a Kindle DX if they ever come out with something that has good color. Otherwise the only way manufacturers will get more of my money for hardware is to come up with some new feature that dazzles me long enough to make me get out my wallet, and the Nook isn't there. Though I admit that the feature of browsing any B&N ebook via wireless at a store is awfully cool, and comes close. Maybe the Nook 2 next Christmas!
> 
> Added after a moment's thought....One thing that turns me off about the Nook is that (as I understand it) it can't read Mobi or PRC books without conversion. Since I have a fair number of Baen science fiction books in that format, I am very turned off by that failing.


I was wondering about folders also. Couldn't find anything about folders on the Nook but the features list says you could store over 17,000 books with a micro sd card inserted. I sure hope they don't all appear on the book list without some organizational feature. Does anyone have more info on this? I'm going to look at it hands-on. Just curious. I think it's interesting that B&N's whole marketing page is a comparison to the Kindle. Kind of reminds me of the old Coke commercials where all other soda companies compared themselves to Coke, which was considered the one to aspire to.


----------



## Teach142

I am curious to see the Nook.  However, I am not curious to the fact that the book prices are a lot more than Kindle's.  I did a comparison of the many paperback books I have on my Kindle and found that the BN prices were at least a $ more than Amazon.  That's the deciding factor for me.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

DD said:


> I was wondering about folders also. Couldn't find anything about folders on the Nook but the features list says you could store over 17,000 books with a micro sd card inserted. I sure hope they don't all appear on the book list without some organizational feature. Does anyone have more info on this? I'm going to look at it hands-on. Just curious. I think it's interesting that B&N's whole marketing page is a comparison to the Kindle. Kind of reminds me of the old Coke commercials where all other soda companies compared themselves to Coke, which was considered the one to aspire to.


When I spoke with the manager at B&N in Springfield, VA, she touted the touchscreen across the bottom as a way to scroll through your books. Mind you, it only shows five books at a time. When I asked her about that, and said that the Kindle list showed more at one time, she said I could change the cover image to a touchscreen keyboard and do a search for books.

Betsy


----------



## Saylorgirl

dwaszak said:


> Well said Kat89447! I'm with you-no interest in a Nook for all the reasons you stated (especially the CS at Amazon) plus, I don't know if some of the 'Nook People" realize it, but you're going to pay taxes on everything you download because B&N has stores everywhere (I believe you'll pay sales tax on the Nook too). B&N also doesn't have a "Prime" program, which gives you quick delivery on all those accessories.
> We have 4 kindles in our house, with very varied reading tastes, and have bought over 300 books in just the past 10 mos. That's a lot of sales tax saved that I can put towards more books!


You do realize that it won't be long and Amazon will be forced to charge sales tax. It is unfair to brick and mortar stores that Amazon is not charging tax. When they have to collect the sales tax the playing field will be leveled.


----------



## pidgeon92

We discussed the tax issue much earlier in this thread.... _So far_, it looks like there will not be tax on downloaded e-books, no matter where you live... I've been looking at my iTunes invoices, and I have yet to be charged any tax on music purchases, and there are plenty of Apple stores in Illinois.


----------



## DailyLunatic

pidgeon92 said:


> We discussed the tax issue much earlier in this thread.... _So far_, it looks like there will not be tax on downloaded e-books, no matter where you live... I've been looking at my iTunes invoices, and I have yet to be charged any tax on music purchases, and there are plenty of Apple stores in Illinois.


True enough, but I doubt you would be able to order an iPod or computer from iTunes, or d/l music from the Apple store.

Sterling
92.5% Pure


----------



## pidgeon92

DailyLunatic said:


> True enough, but I doubt you would be able to order an iPod or computer from iTunes, or d/l music from the Apple store.


I don't understand the point you are trying to make.... Can you please clarify?


----------



## chiffchaff

I think it was that you'd have to be able to buy the same products from the b&m store in order for sales tax to apply to online purchases.  I don't know how the tax thing works though so am just guessing that's what Sterling meant.


----------



## rho

Selcien said:


> Out of fairness to Barnes & Noble, it should be noted that Amazon has increased their price for the Sookie Stackhouse 8 volume set to $49.95.


http://www.amazon.com/Sookie-Stackhouse-8-copy-Boxed-ebook/dp/B002QCJM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=kbpst-20&qid=1258149138&sr=1-1-fkmr0

just looked and I see it is showing $29.58-- grab it now


----------



## kevindorsey

I'm happy that at least there won't be any tax on ebooks


----------



## Seamonkey

Looks like the Nook will be arriving later than expected..

http://technologizer.com/2009/11/13/barnes-nobles-nook-coming-slightly-less-soon/

Barnes & Noble's Nook: Coming Slightly Less Soon
By Harry McCracken | Posted at 5:02 pm on Friday, November 13, 2009
See all: News

Want Barnes & Noble's Nook e-reader? You'll need to wait a bit longer than originally expected. B&N had been saying that the gadget would ship in late November, but now is reporting that the first Nooks will be available on December 18th-a few weeks after the original goal and presumably nearly as late as it can show up and still benefit from the holiday season.

On paper, the Nook still looks like a formidable competitor to Amazon's Kindle, with a color touchscreen interface, both broadband and Wi-Fi, a book-loaning feature, compatibility with the ePub e-book standard, and additional clients that Kindle doesn't yet have (Mac and BlackBerry). I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one. Anyone out there hankering for an e-reader but holding off until the Nook shows up?


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I'm not sure that article is drawing the right conclusions. It's citing a WSJ article that says:


> Barnes & Noble's Web site now says that new orders are expected to be shipped on Dec. 18, in time to make Christmas delivery.
> 
> In October, the nation's largest bookstore chain told its first wave of customers for the $259 Nook that the wireless device would ship Nov. 30. A second wave of customers was told it would ship Dec. 7. A third wave was told that their pre-orders would ship Dec. 11.


And if you click on "preorder" on the B&N site, you're told your Nook will ship on Dec 18. I read that as Nooks ordered now will ship Dec 18, not that the first Nooks will ship Dec 18th, unless there's somewhere else on the B&N website I haven't found.

Betsy


----------



## Anne

I was in B&N today. They told me if you pre-ordered right away that those nooks will ship Nov 30. They also said if you pre-order this week those nooks will ship Dec 18. They are going to have Demo nooks and nooks to sell in the stores Nov 30. They may not have a lot of nooks to sell in the stores till after Christmas because of all the pre-orders.


----------



## happyblob

When I read that they don't ship before Dec. 18 my heart almost stopped. Looks like I'm more involved than I ever wanted to be.


----------



## Saylorgirl

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I'm not sure that article is drawing the right conclusions. It's citing a WSJ article that says:
> And if you click on "preorder" on the B&N site, you're told your Nook will ship on Dec 18. I read that as Nooks ordered now will ship Dec 18, not that the first Nooks will ship Dec 18th, unless there's somewhere else on the B&N website I haven't found.
> 
> Betsy


Betsy you are right. The first pre-orders will still ship on November 30th, December 7th & 11th. New orders will be December 18th. They must be selling very fast!


----------



## d.rose

For now I don't consider a Nook.. I just got my Kindle 2 less than a month ago so it's my latest gadget and I'm happily playing with it.. I mean reading


----------



## DailyLunatic

pidgeon92 said:


> I don't understand the point you are trying to make.... Can you please clarify?


I'll try. Keep in mind that I am not a lawyer and what I say may not have bearing in fact.

As I understand it, a company with online presence must charge sales tax when they have a physical presence in that state.

A company with physical presence attempting to set up a separate online company to handle online sales, and thereby bypassing the sales tax requirement, is no good if second company is owned by the first. Unless - the second company does not sell the same products...

iTunes, owned by Apple, does not have to charge sales tax even though the Apple store may have a presence in the state because iTunes does not sell any of the same product that the Apple store does.

B&N does not appear to have made attempt to separate themselves into a physical book store and e-book store. It appears to me they have one store to sell everything. I don't see how they can avoid taxes.

If I have misstated something, or if I am in error on some point, I welcome clarification.

Sterling
92.5% Pure


----------



## Ann in Arlington

DailyLunatic said:


> As I understand it, a company with online presence must charge sales tax when they have a physical presence in that state.


Actually, the law, in most states, says that a company with a physical presence in a state must *collect sales tax* on behalf of that state. The _company_ doesn't charge sales tax. The _state_ charges sales tax. But the company may be required to collect it for the state as part of their state business license requirements.

In the case of an on-line order, the company still has to collect the tax on any order shipped to a customer in a state in which they have a "brick and mortar" presence. However, as far as I know, digital content is still not covered under most such laws, which harken back to the days of mail order catalogs.

It _is_ possible that the fact of B&N being all one company, both on line and "brick and mortar", might mean the sale of digital content would be taxed in some states. But I kind of think that digital content from iTunes not having tax added to it has more to do with the fact that it's is digital content than the fact that iTunes is technically a different company than Apple selling different stuff. But I don't really know.

Now, one might argue it's just semantics. But, the fact is that if you purchase a paper book (or Kindle) from Amazon, you're probably supposed to tell your state about that and pay them their "use tax". Amazon is just not required to collect it for the state if they don't have a physical location there. Digital books, however, are not yet covered under such laws in the US.

Keep in mind, also, that a given state's laws might differ, both in whether consumers ought to be paying a use tax and in regards to the products that would be so taxed.


----------



## 1131

I made my weekly trip to B&N today to have coffee with friends and they have stuff on the Nook everywhere.  They don't know if they will get a demo Nook in their store before Christmas, apparently there are not enough to go around.  They are still giving out misinformation about the Kindle which I find irritating; and they didn't have information on how the Nook compares to the Sony Reader.  I know I like to have accurate information when deciding what to buy.  Hopefully people will be doing some research and will choose the ereader that is right for them.

On the tax issue, as a Washington resident I pay sales tax on every ebook I buy from Amazon and, according to the B&N employee I talked to, sales tax will be charged on B&N ebooks because B&N is in every state.  I don't know how accurate their information is.


----------



## pidgeon92

imallbs said:


> On the tax issue, as a Washington resident I pay sales tax on every ebook I buy from Amazon and, according to the B&N employee I talked to, sales tax will be charged on B&N ebooks because B&N is in every state. I don't know how accurate their information is.


I have been wondering if Amazon collected sales tax on e-books. Good to finally get a definite answer from somebody in Washington.

I have a feeling my nook will be stocked largely with PDF books vs. purchased tomes.


----------



## Sandpiper

Yesterday I went in the local big B&N store.  (If I want DTBs, I shop in the nearby big Borders.)  Month or so ago they just had a pamphlet about the nook.  Now they have a manned special desk with the same pamphlets.  They also have a non-working nook totally enclosed in plexiglass (or whatever).  Nothing hands-on about it.  That's all.  With all the competition, you'd think they'd be doing better in-store sales promotions.  I didn't ask any questions.  Happy with my K1.


----------



## pidgeon92

Sandpiper said:


> They also have a non-working nook totally enclosed in plexiglass (or whatever).


That's _great_. Wouldn't want to break the dummy model.


----------



## JeanneB

I have the DX and I am wondering how long the batteries are expected to last.  Have any of you had to send yours back to get a battery replaced yet?


----------



## r0b0d0c

pidgeon92 said:


> We discussed the tax issue much earlier in this thread.... _So far_, it looks like there will not be tax on downloaded e-books, no matter where you live... I've been looking at my iTunes invoices, and I have yet to be charged any tax on music purchases, and there are plenty of Apple stores in Illinois.


Just looked through some iTunes receipts, and, at least in MN, I pay state sales tax on iTunes purchases.


----------



## lmk2045

r0b0d0c said:


> Just looked through some iTunes receipts, and, at least in MN, I pay state sales tax on iTunes purchases.


After reading your post, I checked my iTunes receipts and there is no sales tax in California.


----------



## lmk2045

It looks like the Nook will not be available until 2010. B&N is offering holiday certificates. If you pre-order now, you will receive a holiday certificate by December 24.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/offers/index.asp?PID=32217&cds2Pid=30195


----------



## Jaasy

Are they out already?  Did anyone here get one yet?


----------



## The Atomic Bookworm

Jaasy said:


> Are they out already? Did anyone here get one yet?


They're not out, they're just not going to be ready until 01/04/2010


----------



## PaulGuy

They've sold out, much like the DX did this past summer. If you were ordering now you wouldn't get one until Jan. 2010. Those who already pre-ordered are still looking at a release of Nov. 30th I believe.


----------



## mlewis78

If you've had your order in, you'll get it between 11/30-12/18.  New orders will take longer.


----------



## MarthaT

Looks like a huge demand


----------



## The Atomic Bookworm

PaulGuy said:


> They've sold out, much like the DX did this past summer. If you were ordering now you wouldn't get one until Jan. 2010. Those who already pre-ordered are still looking at a release of Nov. 30th I believe.


Ah, I stand corrected.


----------



## Sandpiper

Availability update from B&N

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Unbound-The-eReading-Blog/nook-Availability-Update-Order-Now-for-the-New-Year/ba-p/414724?nobounce


----------



## Saylorgirl

Only in January if you order now!  Huge demand for the nook.  I am so glad I pre-ordered so mine will be here for Christmas, I have a Dec. 11th date for delivery.


----------



## BeastMD

I got my order in before the page went officially live so mine is supposed to ship on Nov 30. 

I will post a review.


----------



## pidgeon92

I found a cnet article from 2006 that discusses the taxation of digital downloads.... This chart is from that article, and if you click on it, it will take you to that article.... The data is 3 years old, so some states may have changed already....


----------



## Ann in Arlington

**** two nook threads merged -- sorry for any confusion ****


----------



## Anne

Oberon has made covers for the Nook you can pre-order them now.

http://www.oberondesign.com/nook.php


----------



## angelad

Ann in Arlington said:


> **** two nook threads merged -- sorry for any confusion ****


That was probably needed


----------



## LindaW

Well, I was ready to pre-order the Nook - but I came here to get some info that I was confused on, and as usual the Kindle folks here were a big help and answered some of my questions.

So, now I know that my discount card will be useless; I won't have audible support; I can't try it out for a few days without incurring a re-stocking fee if I decide to return it; etc.

The only reason that I was willing to get the Nook was because I was annoyed that the firmware updates seem to have passed by the K1.  It was going to be my stand against Amazon! I waited to buy the K1, and almost immediately they announced the K2.  I had it just a bit too late to return it for the newer version.  So, all of the K1 customers - that became Amazon's free marketing dept - will more than likely continue to get bypassed.

I guess I'll continue to hold off until I see what Apple will do, even though it looks like it might not be very affordable.


----------



## geko29

pidgeon92 said:


> We discussed the tax issue much earlier in this thread.... _So far_, it looks like there will not be tax on downloaded e-books, no matter where you live... I've been looking at my iTunes invoices, and I have yet to be charged any tax on music purchases, and there are plenty of Apple stores in Illinois.


That's odd, since I get charged 6.25% sales tax on every one of my purchases from the App store (I don't buy music from iTunes).


----------



## Ann in Arlington

geko29 said:


> That's odd, since I get charged 6.25% sales tax on every one of my purchases from the App store (I don't buy music from iTunes).


Sales tax is charged by the states and, just as the rates vary, the rules can vary about whether businesses are required to collect it on digital media.


----------



## geko29

Ann in Arlington said:


> Sales tax is charged by the states and, just as the rates vary, the rules can vary about whether businesses are required to collect it on digital media.


While that is correct, pidgeon92 and I both live in Illinois. She doesn't get charged sales tax by iTunes for music purchases, while I do for app purchases.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

geko29 said:


> While that is correct, pidgeon92 and I both live in Illinois. She doesn't get charged sales tax by iTunes for music purchases, while I do for app purchases.


I'm guessing the state sees apps as different from tunes. . . . .


----------



## pidgeon92

geko29 said:


> While that is correct, pidgeon92 and I both live in Illinois. She doesn't get charged sales tax by iTunes for music purchases, while I do for app purchases.


I do get charged for app purchases... Just not music. They must not be taxed in the same way.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Interesting--application/software as a product vs data?

Betsy


----------



## Jesslyn

I went into B&N yesterday and had to sit down I was laughing so hard.  In front of the big nook display (without a salesperson) there were about 6 people talking/demo-ing about how much they loved the Kindle and to wait to see the nook 1st.  They were going on about how more expensive B&N non bestsellers were, how much they loved TTS, cautioning on the 'library' feature, etc.
The potential nookies were shocked.  Made me wonder if the Kindlers were Amazon employees.  Eventually the group was getting so large that I wondered when an employee was going to come and investigate, but I had to leave.  It was too funny


----------



## mlewis78

Jesslyn said:


> I went into B&N yesterday and had to sit down I was laughing so hard. In front of the big nook display (without a salesperson) there were about 6 people talking/demo-ing about how much they loved the Kindle and to wait to see the nook 1st. They were going on about how more expensive B&N non bestsellers were, how much they loved TTS, cautioning on the 'library' feature, etc.
> The potential nookies were shocked. Made me wonder if the Kindlers were Amazon employees. Eventually the group was getting so large that I wondered when an employee was going to come and investigate, but I had to leave. It was too funny


Well, we love our kindles, so I'm not surprised. When I went up to the Nook counter at a B&N last month, the person there didn't really know that much about it and had never seen a kindle, so I showed him mine. I didn't try to sell him one. It was all very friendly. No one else was at the counter.


----------



## Scheherazade

LindaW said:


> I guess I'll continue to hold off until I see what Apple will do, even though it looks like it might not be very affordable.


Is Apple making one? I seem to remember Steve Jobs basically saying anyone going into the ereader marketplace was stupid. I'll try to find the quote... Aha, here it is.

Of the Amazon Kindle, Jobs observed, "Forty percent of the people in the US read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people don't read anymore."

Kind of a messed up thing for him to say if you ask me, but sounds like he isn't rushing to bring out an Apple reader... unless he's eating his words now.


----------



## LindaW

Scheherazade said:


> Is Apple making one? I seem to remember Steve Jobs basically saying anyone going into the ereader marketplace was stupid. I'll try to find the quote... Aha, here it is.
> 
> Of the Amazon Kindle, Jobs observed, "Forty percent of the people in the US read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people don't read anymore."
> 
> Kind of a messed up thing for him to say if you ask me, but sounds like he isn't rushing to bring out an Apple reader... unless he's eating his words now.


I think that they are going to have something that I saw - which just looks like a larger i-pod touch that also can be used as an e-reader. It keeps going back and forth as to whether it's an i-pod or a tablet or an e-reader. Maybe they're trying to come up with a device that won't leave egg on the face of Jobs. By now he has to know that his statement was pretty shortsighted.


----------



## KindleChickie

I went into Barnes and Nobel today and just as I was passing the Nook booth, I heard the sales lady lie to 2 women.  She told them that with the Nook, you would never loose your books.  But if you lost your Kindle, all you books would be lost and irreplaceable.    

I started to stop and tell her it wasnt true and that with the Kindle not only would you not loose your books, you could send the books to several devices on one account.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

moving this to the existing "nook chatter" thread. . . .

it's not surprising there's misinformation coming out of B&N about the Kindle.  There's misinformation about the nook as well. . . .


----------



## KindleChickie

Ann in Arlington said:


> moving this to the existing "nook chatter" thread. . . .
> 
> it's not surprising there's misinformation coming out of B&N about the Kindle. There's misinformation about the nook as well. . . .


But is Amazon putting out misinformation? It is different when people who do not work for the company spread misinformation.


----------



## pidgeon92

Selcien said:


> "Debit cards and other payment options are not accepted for eBook purchases at this time"


At this time, B&N gift certificates are not accepted for e-book purchases, but I read last week that they would have that option available when the nook was released.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

KindleChickie said:


> But is Amazon putting out misinformation? It is different when people who do not work for the company spread misinformation.


It is true that I have not heard Amazon, or anyone definitely connected to Amazon, say one thing about the nook, pro or con. They don't have to. They were here first.

B&N is playing catch up and it is not surprising that employees are repeating what they've 'heard' about Kindle. . . probably not out of malice, just out of ignorance. That said, there are some technically correct but not complete statements about the Kindles on the nook page that compares it to the Kindle. That does not make the company look good. But any employee going beyond those is probably acting out of personal ignorance and not company policy. Still. . .doesn't make company look good.

HOWEVER, I have also heard some really fairly obnoxious Kindleheads going on and on about how BAD the nook is. . . when they haven't even seen one yet. And I don't think that's productive either.

It's like the latest ATT vs. Verizon commercials. Verizon started it by showing maps of 3G coverage which pretty clearly indicate Verizon's is better. Now ATT is putting one out where a guy lists all the cities where ATT has coverage. Of course, he doesn't mention the part about 3G at all. It's pretty typical advertising tricks on both sides: technically correct, but stated in such away as to make you look better than your competitor.

Anyway, all just my opinion.


----------



## Meriflower

Ann in Arlington said:


> It's pretty typical advertising tricks on both sides: technically correct, but stated in such away as to make you look better than your competitor.
> 
> Anyway, all just my opinion.


Exactly which is why I try to ignore all that and search for the real facts. It will be interesting to read what people have to say once Nook is available - see if it lives up to all that hype.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Verena ordered one. . . .I think to get in the early bunch. . .Verena. . .is that so?  Or will it not come until Santa does?


----------



## pidgeon92

Santa is going to be packing it on his sleigh.... It won't arrive until Christmas Eve.... I did ask Santa for one a couple of days after the announcement, I had a feeling the elves would run out early.


----------



## Selcien

pidgeon92 said:


> At this time, B&N gift certificates are not accepted for e-book purchases, but I read last week that they would have that option available when the nook was released.


It was an extremely stupid post for me to have made, I mean, I've downloaded B&N's e-reader app to my PC, associated the account with a MasterCard debit card, downloaded the free Witch and Wizard Preview, and it worked. It should have been simple for me to figure out if it worked for that (they do that .01 thing before deducting it back to 0 to link the book to your card), then it would work perfectly fine for purchases since that technically was a purchase.

I think the debit cards that don't work are the ones without the credit feature.

And yeah, that bit about the gift cards was in the thread that I had linked to, didn't really have anything to do with what I was complaining about which is why I hadn't mentioned it.

I've also removed my post as I thought it was misleading.


----------



## pidgeon92

Looks like the ship date for nook has been pushed back a week.... Hopeful nookies are all up in arms! 

I expect mine will still arrive on Christmas Eve.....


----------



## telracs

pidgeon92 said:


> Looks like the ship date for nook has been pushed back a week.... Hopeful nookies are all up in arms!
> 
> I expect mine will still arrive on Christmas Eve.....


"Nookies?" is that what the nickname is?


----------



## Jesslyn

You can say many things about Amazon, but you can't really fault their customer service or that they do what they say they are going to do.  It may be because a web-only enterprise would have died quicker than a spitball in the desert if they didn't.  B&N has brick and mortar to keep them afloat and online sales are more of an add-on rather than the meat n potatoes.

All of that to say that when Amazon came out with a Kindle ship date they sent stuff early rather than late.  The nookie delay will do nothing for reputation nor future sales.  A day or two is one thing, but an entire week? And the compensation offered is a $10 GC that is not yet good for a nookie book.  Bad B&N!


----------



## pidgeon92

Amazon has _mostly_ done a fine job of under-promising and over-delivering. I, and many others, were very happy when we pre-ordered the K2, and it arrived on the day they said they were shipping it.

Barnes & Noble is learning a hard lesson here. A major product launch like this is difficult, and there is a lot of speculation as to what the problem really is.... Whether they can't handle the amount of units (I doubt that, they would have shipped _some_ of them), that they haven't received the units, or that it is related to the lawsuit filed again them by Spring Design.

Either way, once the units ship all will be well in Nookville again. People have short memories.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

My understanding of the announcement is that they would start fullfilling orders beginning today but that, in order to get more nooks in customers hands, they would not have the devices in their brick & mortar stores for another week.

But I admit I really wasn't paying much attention.


----------



## Meriflower

Looks like the Nookies/Nookites have a little bit longer wait. After much anticipation for the 11/30 ship date and then on the big day, watching for their order to say SHIPPED...nothing ... <cricket chirping>. Then finally late afternoon received an email from B&N giving a 12/9 date and a $10 gift card.

I feel bad for those people having to wait longer for their Nooks but I am happy - my new Kindle is waiting for me to unwrap when I get home!


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Meriflower said:


> Looks like the Nookies/Nookites have a little bit longer wait. After much anticipation for the 11/30 ship date and then on the big day, watching for their order to say SHIPPED...nothing ... <cricket chirping>. Then finally late afternoon received an email from B&N giving a 12/9 date and a $10 gift card.


Hmm. . . .that's not good. . . .at least when Amazon has run out they knew it and made it clear at the time you ordered. . .the $10 gift card is nice, but I thought I read that you couldn't use 'em on nook books. . . .so that's not great. . . . .I wonder how many people will cancel their orders and decide a Kindle in the hand is worth 2 nooks in the bush.


----------



## Sporadic

Ann in Arlington said:


> Hmm. . . .that's not good. . . .at least when Amazon has run out they knew it and made it clear at the time you ordered. . .the $10 gift card is nice, but I thought I read that you couldn't use 'em on nook books. . . .so that's not great. . . . .I wonder how many people will cancel their orders and decide a Kindle in the hand is worth 2 nooks in the bush.


Here's the full email. Looks like they are adding the ability to use gift cards on ebooks in mid-December.



> Dear ___________,
> 
> You were smart to order your nook early for 2 reasons:
> 
> You'll be one of the first to have one. Your nook is shipping soon and we expect to have it to you by December 9th. As an added bonus, we've upgraded you to overnight shipping!
> 
> To thank you for being one of the first proud nook owners, we're giving you a $10 Barnes&Noble.com Online Gift Certificate. You can redeem it for cool and stylish nook accessories, bestsellers, exciting new DVDs and Music, and Toys & Games; and beginning in mid December, you'll be able to redeem it for eBooks!
> 
> And again, thank you for being one of the first people on the planet about to experience
> the joy of reading on nook.
> 
> Happy Reading,
> 
> William Lynch
> President, Barnes&Noble.com


----------



## PaulGuy

This is how B&N gave us the bad news. 
I'm supposed to be happy and flattered by this?
This is so clueless it could have been written by a congressman. 


You were smart to order your nook early for 2 reasons:

Reason 1:  You'll be one of the first to have one. Your nook is shipping soon and
we expect to have it to you by December 9th. As an added bonus, we've upgrade
you to overnight shipping!

Reason 2: To thank you for being one of the first proud nook owners, we're giving you a $10 Barnes&Noble.com Online Gift Certificate. You can redeem it for cool and stylish nook accessories, bestsellers, exciting new DVDs and Music,
and Toys & Games; and beginning in mid December, you'll be able to redeem it
for eBooks!

￼
And again, thank you for being one of the first people on the planet about to experience
the joy of reading on nook.

Happy Reading,
William Lynch
President, Barnes&Noble.com


----------



## pidgeon92

Well, they had to put a positive spin on it, didn't they? Actually, I thought the writing was condescending....

If it is the case that they are not shipping due to a pending lawsuit, there really isn't much they can say about it. I do think the $10 gift certificate was a nice gesture....


----------



## Wunderkind

If I recall correctly, around this time last year, there was a pretty extended delay for people wanting Kindles. I placed my order for a Kindle in early January and had to wait quite a while to get it. Not standing up for B&N, but Amazon has had its fair share of challenges in meeting customer demand as well.


----------



## Anne

Wunderkind said:


> If I recall correctly, around this time last year, there was a pretty extended delay for people wanting Kindles. I placed my order for a Kindle in early January and had to wait quite a while to get it. Not standing up for B&N, but Amazon has had its fair share of challenges in meeting customer demand as well.


Good Point Wunderkind


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> Amazon has _mostly_ done a fine job of under-promising and over-delivering. I, and many others, were very happy when we pre-ordered the K2, and it arrived on the day they said they were shipping it.
> 
> Barnes & Noble is learning a hard lesson here. A major product launch like this is difficult, and there is a lot of speculation as to what the problem really is.... Whether they can't handle the amount of units (I doubt that, they would have shipped _some_ of them), that they haven't received the units, or that it is related to the lawsuit filed again them by Spring Design.
> 
> Either way, once the units ship all will be well in Nookville again. People have short memories.


Nookville I Like that


----------



## pidgeon92

Wunderkind is exactly right... And I am pretty sure at that time that nobody died from Kindle withdrawal.... 

I am looking forward to my nook like a little kid at Christmas.... The question is: will it get as much attention as my Kindle? Or will it get ignored ultimately like so many Christmas toys?


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> Wunderkind is exactly right... And I am pretty sure at that time that nobody died from Kindle withdrawal....
> 
> I am looking forward to my nook like a little kid at Christmas.... The question is: will it get as much attention as my Kindle? Or will it get ignored ultimately like so many Christmas toys?


I think Santa is going to bring me a nook too.


----------



## Meriflower

Rumor is the delay is due to a lawsuit where Spring Design is suing B&N for stealing its ideas for the Nook. I found this video of Spring Design's Alex:

http://gizmodo.com/5386266/spring-design-alex-reader-hands-on-video?autoplay=true


----------



## ElaineOK

A friend of mine just got tired of waiting and ordered a Kindle.  He said that B&N's customer service was screaming the message that they really don't care.  So, he went to Amazon.

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


----------



## mlewis78

Wunderkind said:


> If I recall correctly, around this time last year, there was a pretty extended delay for people wanting Kindles. I placed my order for a Kindle in early January and had to wait quite a while to get it. Not standing up for B&N, but Amazon has had its fair share of challenges in meeting customer demand as well.


At this time last year I had my kindle. There was a shortage and it couldn't be ordered in time for Christmas, but the product was already out there. The Nook hasn't been out there yet.


----------



## pidgeon92

I really doubt that B&Ns customer service doesn't care. I think it's more that they have not been given the information that they need to dispense.

We have seen countless examples of Amazon customer service people that do not know of the basic problems the Kindle has suffered from, such as sun fade. We are fortunate on this board to have the combined experience of +6,000 users. How many of us do as much research into our own fields?


----------



## Wunderkind

mlewis78 said:


> At this time last year I had my kindle. There was a shortage and it couldn't be ordered in time for Christmas, but the product was already out there. The Nook hasn't been out there yet.


That is true that there were K1s that had been sold; however, from what I recall Kindles stopped shipping from Amazon in November last year and didn't start shipping again until the K2 came out in February. It isn't the exact same situation as B&N, but again my point is that Amazon has had its challenges in meeting customer demand.

Of course, now that I have had my K2 since February, the wait is a distant memory!


----------



## mlewis78

What is different is that the product had been out there for a full year.  I bought mine during the Oprah promotion and didn't wait at all.  The Nook is a brand new product that has been eagerly anticipated as such.  We haven't seen a real one yet!  But that should change very soon.


----------



## Wunderkind

True -- although given Amazon's prior experience with the K1, it seems that they should not have had a problem in meeting demand for the K2 -- having learned from their first experience. But to your point, we haven't even seen a nook yet and it will be interesting to see if it gets released, given the pending lawsuit that is all over the Internet.


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

Jesslyn,



Jesslyn said:


> ...It may be because a web-only enterprise would have died quicker than a spitball in the desert if they didn't.


 That image really tickled me (maybe because I saw so much desert on my recent vacation).

Speaking of which, I was gone for awhile, but your avatar is so wonderfully upbeat looking
that it makes me smile whenever I see it.



> B&N has brick and mortar to keep them afloat and online sales are more of an add-on rather than the meat n potatoes.


 That brick & morter didn't do too well this quarter and they're banking on the Nook to turn things around, they say. To that end the employees, aware of this, are very invested the Nook's success, of course. I would be too. But B&N management has overdone the anti-Kindle stuff they have their staff spout.



> All of that to say that when Amazon came out with a Kindle ship date they sent stuff early rather than late.


GREAT memory! I'd forgotten that.


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

mlewis78 said:


> What is different is that the product had been out there for a full year. I bought mine during the Oprah promotion and didn't wait at all. The Nook is a brand new product that has been eagerly anticipated as such. We haven't seen a real one yet! But that should change very soon.


Right. And Amazon had given review copies to gadget sites to go over.

Not Barnes and Noble. And they're not releasing even the User's Guide in advance though both Amazon and Sony do that to help prepare people.

One has to wonder (one being me  )


----------



## mlewis78

To strengthen my point, Amazon doesn't give a ship date and then on that date change it.  They have had problems in the past keeping kindles in stock, but they wouldn't give you a ship date for an order that they can't fulfill until later.  Earliest pre-orders for the Nook had 11/30 ship date given to individuals on their accounts.

Perhaps this will all be forgotten next month.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

mlewis78 said:


> To strengthen my point, Amazon doesn't give a ship date and then on that date change it. They have had problems in the past keeping kindles in stock, but they wouldn't give you a ship date for an order that they can't fulfill until later. Earliest pre-orders for the Nook had 11/30 ship date given to individuals on their accounts.
> 
> Perhaps this will all be forgotten next month.


That's exactly my first reaction. . .yes, Amazon had shortages, but when you went to the site to order it said, "order now and get in line, shipping in 4 to 6 weeks." And that's when they shipped, if not sooner. B&N said, last month, order for shipping/delivery on November 30. . . . .now they're saying they hope to have them to people by Dec 9. That's not good.

It _is_ good to hear they'll let the gift cards be used for e-books.

Andrys has a good point about how Amazon had given review devices to the people who write about gadgets and have the users guides available on the website for anyone to read.

I do wonder how much the lawsuit is impacting things. . . . . .


----------



## Jesslyn

Adding another $ .02--it is illegal to state that you're having shipping issues due to supply problems when the real issue is a lawsuit.  I've been lurking on the nookboards but it seems that pre-order folks are getting a range of dates, from the 9th to the 11th to later.  I would hazard a guess that the issues are more for supply problems rather than the lawsuit; initial opinions are that the injunction would not be granted.
But you never know nowadays--if that injunction is granted B&N are in a world of trouble.  I'm starting to feel sorry for them


----------



## JoFoReadin

I'm sure the lawsuit is distracting to the upper-echelon of the nook team at B&N but I believe these delays are all supply-chain issues, as has been indicated by B&N in various statements and releases over the past couple of weeks.  As has been pointed out by a lawyer on another board, it is illegal for amazon to claim the delays are due to supply chain if, in fact, the delays are due to the lawsuit.  That is fraudulent to investors and is an SEC violation (according to him, IANAL).  That makes sense to me because it's one thing to say, "our product is so popular, we can't keep up, better invest quick!" and quite another to say, "we can't ship our product because we're tied up in a legal battle that may hurt your investment."

Whatever the reason, I pretty much abandoned the nook yesterday due to B&N's handling of the customer-side of things.  Regardless of the reason for the delays, it was wrong of them to keep customers in the dark and eagerly stalking our order status', only to be disappointed with a cryptic, insulting email mid-day finally notifying us that they'd dropped the ball.  They even had the gall to tell early adopters, who'd jumped into the nook deep-end head-first pretty much sight-unseen, that we were the lucky ones.

The nook is very promising, but definitely not without it's issues.  But I was willing to overlook the lack of technical books, the higher ebook prices, the hampered rights issues (text-to-speech, overseas, etc...) and even the ambiguity about B&N's commitment to the platform (will they give up after a couple of years if they can't compete with Amazon on the e-book front or if the nook actually hurts their B&M sales)  But I wasn't willing to put up with being deceived and treated like a half-wit just to have a "cooler" package for my e-books.

And that's why I'm "working" from home today, eagerly waiting on my Kindle to arrive


----------



## Jesslyn

artsandhistoryfan said:


> Jesslyn,
> 
> Speaking of which, I was gone for awhile, but your avatar is so wonderfully upbeat looking
> that it makes me smile whenever I see it.


I love my avatar as well. You can get your own here http://flipface.me. Just send in a picture--I had a ::cough, cough:: drink in my hand in the original image and told him to substitute a Kindle.


----------



## Chad Winters

I ordered a Kindle for a family member for Christmas yesterday and it shipped this morning. Nice going Amazon!


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Update on my previous post.  I called my local B&N in Springfield, which had assured me they would have a demo Nook on the 30th, and they told me that all demo's had been delayed until Dec 7.

Betsy


----------



## OhSoAppy

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> I ordered a Kindle for a family member for Christmas yesterday and it shipped this morning. Nice going Amazon!


They really are on top of it right now.

I ordered my Kindle Friday night, and got it last night(Monday). I do pay a little extra for the faster shipping, but they still even got it here before the original 'arrival' date, they had estimated I would get it on the 2nd....not the 30th! Great service!


----------



## lmk2045

Just for giggles:

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i63311


----------



## stargazer0725

And your emails substantially differ from the official B&N blog post put up yesterday on the B&N website.

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Unbound-The-eReading-Blog/bg-p/Unbound

In the post, they say that they will work hard to make sure all preorders submitted before 11/20 are filled by December 25th, not December 9th.


----------



## Chad Winters

Oh .... the one on Tiger Woods on that page was so wrong and so funny at the same time!!

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s6i64233


----------



## pidgeon92

stargazer0725 said:


> And your emails substantially differ from the official B&N blog post put up yesterday on the B&N website.
> 
> http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Unbound-The-eReading-Blog/bg-p/Unbound
> 
> In the post, they say that they will work hard to make sure all preorders submitted before 11/20 are filled by December 25th, not December 9th.


The blog posting was referring to the sum of all pre-orders prior to 11/20. The emails that were sent were specific to the date you ordered the nook. Mine was ordered on 10/22, and the email stated 12/9 delivery. Those with an order date of 10/26 are scheduled for 12/14, and so on.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

I observe that I got an advert e-mail from B&N yesterday 'cause I'm on their e-mail list. . . . .and there was nary a mention of the nook in it.  Though it is still on their front page, if somewhat less prominently.


----------



## angelad

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> Oh .... the one on Tiger Woods on that page was so wrong and so funny at the same time!!
> 
> http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s6i64233


Heheh, that is pretty funny in a very weird way.


----------



## luvmy4brats

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Update on my previous post. I called my local B&N in Springfield, which had assured me they would have a demo Nook on the 30th, and they told me that all demo's had been delayed until Dec 7.
> 
> Betsy


I stopped in at the B&N in Annapolis today and I was told they *should* have a few demo units next week, but to call before I come in to make sure. They did have a plastic mock-up to play with though.


----------



## chevauchee

A plastic mockup seems dangerous -- people will get the idea in their heads that's all there is to it.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Today was Day 1 of "Ellen's 12 Days of Giveaways".  Today was coolest new gadgets; among other things, she gave away nooks.


----------



## R. M. Reed

I was in a B&N today. The front desk was done up with Nook signs and there were pamphlets about it. No real unit to look at yet.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Got a Borders e-mail sale announcement this morning.  Sony pocket reader featured prominently.  Special sale until the 7th: $20 off if you buy it plus an accessory. . . .and large words announcing, "No Wait! The Sony Reader is in Stock."


----------



## MarthaT

angelad said:


> Heheh, that is pretty funny in a very weird way.


sure is


----------



## shutrbug

From Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/04/nook-ship-date-pushed-back-to-january-15th-no-nooks-in-stores-b/

"Nook ship date pushed back to January 15th, no Nooks in stores before Christmas?
By Laura June posted Dec 4th 2009 11:41AM

Last night, we got a tip telling us that this morning, Barnes and Noble's ship date for the Nook would slip further -- from the previously known date of January 11th to January 15th. And hey, what do you know? The BN website is now showing an expected ship date of January 15th -- though it seems this would be the shipping date for new pre-orders, not for pre-existing ones. Disappointing for all of us who are expectantly awaiting our units, no doubt, but there's the possibility of further bad news. The last time we checked in, the Nook was expected in some Barnes and Noble retail stores on the 7th of December. This tipster, who as we've just mentioned proved spot on with the expected shipping date (and whose name we know, though they've asked us not to print it), also says that no Barnes and Noble stores will have actual Nooks on hand until after Christmas. Of course, we have no way of knowing if this information will turn out to be correct, but at this point, we thought it seemed a decent enough piece of "possible" to pass on.

Update: We've just spoken with a Barnes & Noble rep, and they say they will have the Nook in select stores on Monday, December 7th, so we're just going to have to be patient and see."


----------



## ElaineOK

If this were just a demand outstripping supply problem, why aren't they shipping any?  No, this is a fouled up and overly ambitious production problem, that they probably expected but wanted to announce for Christmas to stop all Christmas sales from going to Amazon -- or maybe I'm just cynical.

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


----------



## dnagirl

This is what the blog says. And by the way, instead of posting a new blog post, they went back and edited a post made on Monday. Which seems a wee bit of a shady way to go about things, if you ask me. (bolding is mine for emphasis, strikeout is from the blog)



> As we head into December, we wanted to give an update on nook, the eBook reader that continues to be the fastest-selling product at Barnes & Noble.
> 
> We are beginning to ship this week, and are committed to doing everything we can to ensure that everyone who ordered a nook before Nov. 20 will receive it by Dec. 25. As units ship, customers will receive e-mails indicating the estimated arrival date.
> 
> *As we have said previously, nook orders are being fulfilled on a first-come, first-served basis. Orders placed beginning today are expected to ship on or about Jan. 11. Orders placed beginning Dec. 4 are expected to ship on or about Jan. 15. (Updated Dec. 4.)*
> 
> Because we are prioritizing pre-orders, we will have demo units available only in our highest-volume stores on Dec. 7, and we expect to have a very limited quantity available for sale in those stores at a date to be determined.
> 
> As a reminder, the best way to get a nook of your own is to order here or at your local Barnes & Noble store.
> 
> Thanks for the enthusiastic response to nook. We appreciate your patience, and look forward to getting you the world's most advanced eBook reader.


----------



## Jesslyn

For those of you interested in see nookies, there was a notice sent by B&N today-- 
----------------------------
We’re coming up on a big week for nook, and wanted to share some important information with you today.

First, we’re excited to report that all Barnes & Noble stores will have nook demo units available beginning on Monday. Our customers have told us how eager they are to experience nook for themselves, and we are happy to make it easier for them to do so.

We have also decided that based on the high volume of pre-orders, we will not be have for-sale inventory in our stores until after the holidays. We will provide details as the dates become more clear.

The best way to secure a nook of your own is to order online or to place an order at your local Barnes & Noble store. Orders received after 10 a.m. ET today are expected to ship on or about Jan. 15.

As a reminder, the first customer deliveries of nook will arrive the middle of next week. We are excited about this, and we can’t wait to hear your feedback on the world’s most advanced eBook reader.

Thanks everyone, and happy weekend.


----------



## geneven

I was at a Barnes and Noble a few hours ago in Westlake Village, Southern California. They had a Nook display and seemed to have a lot of interest.


----------



## mlewis78

geneven said:


> I was at a Barnes and Noble a few hours ago in Westlake Village, Southern California. They had a Nook display and seemed to have a lot of interest.


Did they have a working Nook to look at?


----------



## geneven

They appeared to have several working Nooks at the bookstore, yes. I am not in the market now, with my Kindle 2, my two handheld tablets, my Netbook, and my PCs, so I just glanced as I went by.


----------



## cloudyvisions

I went by my B&N tonight and asked about them since I didn't see any out, and they said they would be out next week. There is crazy promotion for them all over the store! I brought my Kindle with me hoping they would have one and I could compare them beside each other, so I still want to play around with one and see what I think.

Hmmm...I think that this idea: _We have also decided that based on the high volume of pre-orders, we will not be have for-sale inventory in our stores until after the holidays_ is pretty bad since, isn't the whole point of getting them out right now to have them available for holiday sales? I guess they greatly miscalculated the demand for them.


----------



## timsgirl627

I know someone who works in the B&N store here and she said they got theirs today but it will be out Monday. The only way employees could look at it was to talk to a manager and basically be "trained and tested" on it. She didn't want to do all that so is waiting until Monday with everyone else. But you can tell that they are telling their employees what to say. I told her I wanted a Kindle and she was asking the questions "does it have lending".. I said no, but I don't borrow books and with only 2 weeks to borrow a book from someone, I may not finish it if work gets busy and then that's that. And if I lend a book to one person then that is it, no one else can borrow it, from my understanding. I told her that the Kindle was better for me because more of the books that I would choose to read are cheaper than Amazon and she was saying, well B&N has free ones and the best sellers are 9.99... I replied with, yea Amazon too lots of Free ones... I already have 3 and don't even have the Kindle yet. So you can definitely tell that they are telling the employees what nook "has" that Kindle "doesn't". Since I don't have either at this point, I may check out the Kindle in the store just so I can at least say I looked at more than one option... I am guessing I will still want the Kindle though.


----------



## mlewis78

I've been trying to keep an open mind about the Nook, and I am looking forward to what people have to say about them once they finally own them, but the delay and the whole idea of paying for a different set of books with a different format (as well as paying forthe device and protective cover) keeps me away.  I'm curious about it but tired of waiting for first owners to have them.  I haven't been able to figure out what the allure is, except for acquiring a new gadget, the color touch index screen and perhaps that many of the buyers are very loyal Barnes & Noble customers.

I never thought I would want the Kindle DX, partly because I don't use textbooks and don't need the PDF feature and that was how they marketed them.  Now I have it and it's my primary reader.  So perhaps one day I will change my mind about the Nook, but I doubt it now.  I have a Kindle DX and a Kindle 2 and accessories.  What more could I want except for more books to add to them?


----------



## elbereth

For those of you in the DC area, I was at the Tyson's B&N on Monday evening and they had several of the plastic mock-up units.  The saleswoman was saying that they would get in-store units for sale next week but clearly that's either changed or she didn't have her facts straight.  I assume the latter, actually, because she also said you could loan books as many times as you wanted, and "Barnes and Noble has more free books than Amazon has books for sale."  She also said the e-ink portion would be a touch screen that you could manipulate with multitouch like an iPhone.  
In other words, massive misinformation at the Tyson's B&N, if anyone's interested.  But it was fun to play with the plastic toys.  I'll stick to my DX, thank you very much!


----------



## ElaineOK

She is right.  There are more free books available for Nook then Amazon has for sale.  Of course, Project Guttenburg is available for Kindle as well.  She just didn't mention that.  

Elaine
Norman, Oklahoma


----------



## elbereth

I suppose it's not entirely fair to hold them to a strict interpretation of the truth... but still


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

Jesslyn said:


> I love my avatar as well. You can get your own here http://flipface.me. Just send in a picture--I had a ::cough, cough:: drink in my hand in the original image and told him to substitute a Kindle.


 That's great, Jesslyn! Also, love that it's customized even more so that you could get that liquified stuff morphed into a Kindle!

Will check the site out for sure. Thanks!


----------



## Ann in Arlington

elbereth said:


> For those of you in the DC area, I was at the Tyson's B&N on Monday evening and they had several of the plastic mock-up units. The saleswoman was saying that they would get in-store units for sale next week but clearly that's either changed or she didn't have her facts straight. I assume the latter, actually, because she also said you could loan books as many times as you wanted, and "Barnes and Noble has more free books than Amazon has books for sale." She also said the e-ink portion would be a touch screen that you could manipulate with multitouch like an iPhone.
> In other words, massive misinformation at the Tyson's B&N, if anyone's interested. But it was fun to play with the plastic toys. I'll stick to my DX, thank you very much!


I have in mind to head over to Tysons on Monday. . . .there's a jacket at Coldwater Creek I want and I'll need pants to go with. . . .those are too hard to buy from a catalog!  I expect I'll wander in the B&N and see what's shakin'. . . . . .


----------



## Anju 

I just sold my Refurb kindle to a lady whose husband has a kindle but won't let her use it, and he has ordered a Nook because B&N has books he can't get for the kindle    I think he just wants the new gadget   but I'll be interested in his reaction to the Nook vs the kindle.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

More to the point. . . . you might get to see one in the flesh, so to speak.


----------



## Anju 

Fraid not, they are in West Texas -


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Oh!


----------



## Jesslyn

I'll be hitting up my local B&N this weekend.  There are two stores close to me, one huge one and a medium sized one, but both get a lot of traffic so I'm hoping.  Not sure why I'm so interested in a nook as I really don't care for the screen thing; maybe its the idea of Kindle Kompetition.  We've already seen Amazon make some improvements to stay in the game--this has only been a good thing.

From all that I've read, the Kindle still has the edge, IMHO.  If you can read a book who cares what format it is  , but the library and DRM'd Adobe files would make my life a lot easier.


----------



## pidgeon92

I am looking forward to getting my nook for Christmas.... My cover arrived yesterday... It was so tempting to open the box, but that would not have made my husband too happy... 

It'll be interesting to see how things shake out in the next week. I think B&N really raised some expectations with this thing, and I think a lot of people will be disappointed that the features - like book lending and reading in store - are so limited. You would think B&N would have learned from the Amazon text-to-speech debacle.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> I am looking forward to getting my nook for Christmas.... My cover arrived yesterday... It was so tempting to open the box, but that would not have made my husband too happy...
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how things shake out in the next week. I think B&N really raised some expectations with this thing, and I think a lot of people will be disappointed that the features - like book lending and reading in store - are so limited. You would think B&N would have learned from the Amazon text-to-speech debacle.


You are lucky I wish I would at least get my cover.


----------



## lmk2045

I found this link to Engadget's preview and comments on a functioning nook on A Kindle World blog this morning.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/04/barnes-and-nobles-nook-gets-a-brief-and-early-hands-on/ 

This link to another nook photo was posted on the Amazon Kindle Discussion board. The amount of screen available for reading is noticeably less with the touchscreen turned off.

http://twitpic.com/s7pqw


----------



## Carld

A friend of mine was really interested in the Kindle until the Nook was announced. The SD card slot and replaceable battery have pretty much sold her on it.


----------



## mlewis78

Carld said:


> A friend of mine was really interested in the Kindle until the Nook was announced. The SD card slot and replaceable battery have pretty much sold her on it.


Isn't it funny that some of the attractions of Nook are in the Kindle 1?


----------



## kevindorsey

mlewis78 said:


> Isn't it funny that some of the attractions of Nook are in the Kindle 1?


So called competition..


----------



## geneven

One killer feature that the Nook has that the Kindle doesn't have is a physical store where you can go and hang out. This fulfills an important human need and is pretty important, assuming that Barnes and Noble can really integrate the Nook experience with their bookstores. After all my Kindle reading, it was a blast to wander around a real store and see color 3d books that I could actually open and thumb thru, and browsing is much faster in a physical store, like seeing new books that I never heard of and actually getting a feeling for how much I liked or didn't like them. 

I don't think physical bookstores are quite dead yet. And another obvious thing that I re-realized is that Barnes and Noble is specifically a hangout for young people, lots of them. The secret weapon of Amazon is price and convenience; the secret weapon of Barnes and Noble is people -- in person, yet.


----------



## PaulGuy

I was happy to see an email moments ago stating that my nook has shipped. Then.....After checking the tracking number UPS shows 3 day select shipping!! Not the wonderful upgrade to overnight shipping I was supposed to receive and be so happy about when they missed the ship date last Monday. These guys are getting nothing right so far in the customer relations department.


----------



## marianneg

Carld said:


> A friend of mine was really interested in the Kindle until the Nook was announced. The SD card slot and replaceable battery have pretty much sold her on it.


I suspect that the SD slot was removed for compatibility reasons. Some people complained of SD cards that didn't work with the Kindle. So I do have some concern that B&N might later decide to remove it as well.


----------



## mlewis78

I'm sure that the SD slot is gone from current kindle models in order to make the device so slim.  There may be other reasons as well.  I was a die-hard SD card user with K1 and it took me a long time to come around to buying my refurb K2.  

Now I realize that I didn't have enough books to need it.  It was just a nice feature to have.  When I reach near-capacity on my KDX or K2 (if that ever happens), I can delete or just store books on my computer or an SD card in my computer.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

lmk2045 said:


> I found this link to Engadget's preview and comments on a functioning nook on A Kindle World blog this morning.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/04/barnes-and-nobles-nook-gets-a-brief-and-early-hands-on/


I'm missing the Nook preview at this link? Going off to look again...

Betsy


----------



## jeremy81

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I'm missing the Nook preview at this link? Going off to look again...
> 
> Betsy


Looks like it is gone. Maybe they got a take down notice from B&N?


----------



## Chris W

I hope the nook is a great device, because it will push Amazon to improve future models of the Kindle. That said, B&N seems to be getting a free ride on bad publicity for both the functionality and the shipping delays on the device. Most of the tech media seems so enamored of the nook, that they are basically regurgitating the press releases for the device. Why aren't they hammering B&N over the lack of review models? What poor performance issue are they potentially hiding from the public? Perhaps the Engadget review hit too close to home.


----------



## lmk2045

Chris W said:


> I hope the nook is a great device, because it will push Amazon to improve future models of the Kindle. That said, B&N seems to be getting a free ride on bad publicity for both the functionality and the shipping delays on the device. Most of the tech media seems so enamored of the nook, that they are basically regurgitating the press releases for the device. Why aren't they hammering B&N over the lack of review models? What poor performance issue are they potentially hiding from the public? Perhaps the Engadget review hit too close to home.


Great minds think alike. Can they really backup their claim that the nook is superior to all other ereaders on the market?


----------



## Meriflower

I read that B&N asked them to take it down.


----------



## pidgeon92

Meriflower said:


> I read that B&N asked them to take it down.


Of _course_ B&N did. They just don't get it. It's got to take years of experience to get to this level of ineptness.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Found this, read it quick before they take it down...
http://www.geardiary.com/2009/12/05/nook-demos-confirmed-for-monday-engadget-has-a-hands-on/

Betsy


----------



## luvmy4brats

The rep I talked to last week did tell me the free in store reading was for an hour. You could read one book for free for an hour, then switch to another book for an hour. He wasn't sure if you'd be able to go back to the first book after that.


----------



## mlewis78

Here's a funny article from _The Onion_ about new gadgets being better than slightly older ones. Doesn't necessarily apply to the Nook and this thread, but I found it through Engadget:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_device_desirable_old_device

Marti


----------



## Anju 

Understand PC World has a brilliant reivew of the Nook and how it is so much better than the Kindle, has internet browsing, free books, a "keyboard"  , and that e-readers are going to go the way of 8-track tapes.  BAH HUMBUG!  I will be so glad when the real deal gets out there and then honest comparisons can happen.


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

lmk2045 said:


> I found this link to Engadget's preview and comments on a functioning nook on A Kindle World blog this morning.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/04/barnes-and-nobles-nook-gets-a-brief-and-early-hands-on/


 Well, I hoped my blog entry would also be of some interest. I see in later notes here that the preview at Engadget is gone. I do report on that preview in a couple of ways. It's also a Nook-Kindle comparison insofar as correcting some erroneous things said about the Kindle vs Nook.

If you want to know more about what Engadget had up, the blog entry does cover a lot of it.

And links to an older video of it during a demo earlier on.

It's the latest entry now, but the direct link is http://bit.ly/nookfacts



> This link to another nook photo was posted on the Amazon Kindle Discussion board. The amount of screen available for reading is noticeably less with the touchscreen turned off.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/s7pqw


 Yes. It's a blurred photo due to movement and the focus being more on his hand. It's probably a functioning Nook that a B&N repair-dept staff photographed. His other photographs indicate the place is B&N. I guess they're readying the units and training people for the Demo sessions that will start on Monday.

I have a B&N nearby and will go check out the scene. Am a card-carrying member too


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

PaulGuy said:


> I was happy to see an email moments ago stating that my nook has shipped. Then.....After checking the tracking number UPS shows 3 day select shipping!! Not the wonderful upgrade to overnight shipping I was supposed to receive and be so happy about when they missed the ship date last Monday. These guys are getting nothing right so far in the customer relations department.


That's unreal! They know the world's watching and super interested. Odd they'd keep changing from what they had said earlier. Maybe the finance guys got to them, but ... what about bad PR ? I would think word of mouth is key right now.


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

Meriflower said:


> I read that B&N asked them to take it down.


Meriflower, 
Did they say what reason B&N gave for that action?

This is so strange, but it's interesting because of that


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

Anju No. 469 said:


> Understand PC World has a brilliant reivew of the Nook and how it is so much better than the Kindle, has internet browsing, free books, a "keyboard" , and that e-readers are going to go the way of 8-track tapes. BAH HUMBUG! I will be so glad when the real deal gets out there and then honest comparisons can happen.


It was a brilliant write-up describing his lust for a Nook but never really did say *how* it was better.
One of his commenters pointed that out. His 'review' was, in effect - "Don't get the Kindle, get the Nook."

Why should functioning matter?


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

mlewis78 said:


> Here's a funny article from _The Onion_ about new gadgets being better than slightly older ones. Doesn't necessarily apply to the Nook and this thread, but I found it through Engadget:
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_device_desirable_old_device
> 
> Marti


Not 'necessarily,' Marti, but that was hilarious! Thanks.


----------



## pidgeon92

It will be interesting to see if I "like" nook better than the Kindle.... In this case, I am more about content than the gadget itself. It is my hope that some of my massive e-book wishlist will be less expensive at B&N, and that I can comparison shop before purchasing. I just don't have any real hope that B&N's prices will undercut Amazon's on any particular e-book. Being a gadget hound is expensive.


----------



## Anju 

I am really looking forward to your review Verena, I think you would probably be the most intelligent and honest person to do this.  I am not interested in the Nook to own, I am not a gadget person, but I am interested in knowledge.  Do we really really have to wait until Christmas


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Yeah. . . .what she said!  . . . . Surely, you'll have to check it out when it arrives to make sure it's in good, working condition!


----------



## CegAbq

mlewis78 said:


> Here's a funny article from _The Onion_ about new gadgets being better than slightly older ones. Doesn't necessarily apply to the Nook and this thread, but I found it through Engadget:
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_device_desirable_old_device
> 
> Marti


That was soooo entertaining. Thanks Marti


----------



## thresel

I love my Kindle but I hope the B&N Nook is a success.  I would hate to see B&N in trouble and closing stores and I think it would be a good thing for us Kindle users if Amazon had a viable competitor.  It should help keep the price of ebooks down which is really the big expense in owning a Kindle, at least it is in my case, I am "one click" exuberant.


----------



## pidgeon92

Ann in Arlington said:


> Yeah. . . .what she said! . . . . Surely, you'll have to check it out when it arrives to make sure it's in good, working condition!


I just asked, and my husband said "no."  I shall indeed give a fair assessment of nook v. Kindle.

I need to figure out a way to compare the prices on all of my wishlist books automatically, and see what the price fluctuation is between B&N and Amazon.


----------



## Meriflower

artsandhistoryfan said:


> Meriflower,
> Did they say what reason B&N gave for that action?
> 
> This is so strange, but it's interesting because of that


No reason was given. 

I too will be interested in reading pidgeon92's opinions of her Nook once she receives it. I am new to ereaders just having received my Kindle last week so am interested in anything about these devices. So far I am loving mine.


----------



## Nytngale

I am anxiously awaiting the ship date for my Nook. I own a K1 that I use daily and prior to that used a Sony PRS505 which had an organization system far superior to that of my K1. It has been interesting to read the criticisms of B&N, yet the current situation is not much different from that when the K1 was launched. There was little available info and no physical demo of the K1 for potential customers, the device also sold out quickly when first released. My K1 has been serving me well and I didn't feel compelled to move to a K2 as there was little upgrade over my K1. I am a little of a gadget freak though and am intrigued by some of what the Nook has to offer. Hopefully, I will get as much enjoyment from the Nook as my K1. I have always loved the B&N in-store experience and can't wait to take my Nook there. (I already take my K1 there to read in the coffee shop and to buy new books after perusing the shelves!).


----------



## akpak

pidgeon92 said:


> I need to figure out a way to compare the prices on all of my wishlist books automatically, and see what the price fluctuation is between B&N and Amazon.


Try using inkmesh.com. It will show you price comparisons.


----------



## pidgeon92

akjak said:


> Try using inkmesh.com. It will show you price comparisons.


I will do that, thanks..... I was thinking more of a database or a spreadsheet that I could link the book prices to to have a constant list to check.


----------



## kevindorsey

Yea, definitely will be interesting to read some opinions of owners of both.


----------



## mindreader

Was at B&N today and visited the nook counter. I was mostly interested in checking out the covers but stayed to hear the salesman's pitch to passersby. Must say that I'm alittle disappointed in B&N for all the misinformation they're allowing (making?) their staff to deliver about he kindle in comparison to the nook.  Statements like "with the kindle you can only read material purchased on Amazon" and when asked about the price of nook books, "$9.99 for bestsellers while Amazon books range from $8 to $12" as if to imply that Amazon's prices average higher (which hasn't been my experience).  That was just some of it. Had to leave after awhile cause I knew I wouldn't be able to hold my tongue. 

I'm a kindle owner but I still a B&N member and still shop there. I was looking forward to the nook because of all the new people it would bring to "e-booking." But the thought that they're using so much misinfo to market the product  bothers me.


----------



## Meriflower

Hopefully interested people will do their research on both the Kindle, Sony, Nook, etc before plunking down $$ on an eReader.  A product should be sold on its own merits.  To do otherwise is not professional and just turns me off.


----------



## Chris W

Finally, Engadget's official Nook review. It's mixed, and makes me think that if people really give the thing a test drive, they will come down to earth after calling it a huge improvement on the Kindle experience. I just hope that with B&N's not so generous return policy, there aren't too many disappointed buyers. I don't want someone badmouthing all e-readers just because they had a soured experience with the Nook.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/07/barnes-and-noble-nook-review/


----------



## teiresias

I think the Nook just has some fundamental UI and software issues given the fact that it ties the LCD UI into the e-ink screen display.  There's just no way to really speed up the overall experience of the interface when you have the bottleneck of the e-ink display.

The lagginess of the LCD cover flow book display is another matter.  There's really no excuse for that to be all wonky and choppy so that really needs a once over by a coder over at B&N.  Let me amend that, there's no reason for coverflow images of books on the device to be slow and choppy.  If you're browsing the store online via 3G I can see the connection speed being an issue with trying to get the cover art into memory, but still, I was surprised the device had that issue.

I think having the LCD puts people into the mindset of having this really smooth experience which ultimately leads to misleading expectations for the device because, as I said, the e-ink display is still used in the UI.

Once you get down to it though, I spend little time doing a bunch of navigating on my e-reader and more time reading on it.  I don't really care how laggy the interface is the majority of the time I'm using the device because I'm not engaged with the interface when I'm just reading a book.

Someone that reads a lot of periodicals probably has higher expectations in that regard though, because that kind of reading uses the interface more than just fiction/novel kind of reading (the only kind i do on the device).

It is disappointing that the actual e-ink screen seems to refresh significantly slower than the Kindles I've used.


----------



## mlewis78

I just read the review too and watched their video.  The video gives me a sense of what I wanted to know by going into the store to play with one.  Also, even if it's in the store nearest me tomorrow, there will be a mob waiting to get hands onto it.

Sounds as if it's OK once you get used to the navigation.  I'm still not ordering one at this time.


----------



## lmk2045

Here is the Slashgear review without video. It is very different from the Engadget review.

http://www.slashgear.com/barnes-noble-nook-review-0665189/


----------



## The Hooded Claw

This is interesting....I hope the Nook is a success (I have no intention of buying one, but I want Amazon to feel the pressure!), so I hope the more optimistic slashgear review is accurate about the user interface.


----------



## lmk2045

Two more reviews:

CNET review with video:
http://reviews.cnet.com/e-book-readers/barnes-noble-nook/4505-3508_7-33786175.html 

Gizmodo.com
http://gizmodo.com/5420216/


----------



## 911jason

There are two things that really would annoy me about the nook based on the images posted in the Engadget review:

*The chrome edge along the top could be very distracting depending on the lighting behind and above the user...









...and I hope this is only because it's a pre-production unit, but the scraped-off paint above the color touchscreen would drive me nuts!*


----------



## Scheherazade

I'd be a lot more excited about the launch of this if Barnes and Noble employees weren't spreading lies about the thing every time they open their mouths in the stores.  They already have a significant advantage of having that physical presence, they don't need to bash the Kindle with untruths as well.  How long before we start seeing ads warring with each other like AT&T and Verizon or Apple and Microsoft?


----------



## Anne

The Early Show had The Kindle DX, Kindle 2, Sony and The Nook here is where they compare them

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/07/earlyshow/leisure/gamesgadgetsgizmos/main5922376.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody


----------



## MarthaT

Anne said:


> The Early Show had The Kindle DX, Kindle 2, Sony and The Nook here is where they compare them
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/07/earlyshow/leisure/gamesgadgetsgizmos/main5922376.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody


just saw that


----------



## Nathan

just got the Nook "lending agreement addendum" contract in my inbox this morning.  Nice that they are asking for this after already announcing the feature to the public.  It is very restrictive and not user friendly...FYI.  One point is that you can read 100% of anybook when connected to the WiFi inside a Barnes and Noble brick-and-mortar.  Not a valid selling point right now, just a marketing push.


----------



## luvmy4brats

I just called the B&N in Annapolis and they have 1 demo unit. I think
it might be time for a field trip.


----------



## mwvickers

lmk2045 said:


> Here is the Slashgear review without video. It is very different from the Engadget review.
> 
> http://www.slashgear.com/barnes-noble-nook-review-0665189/


Judging by the video on this site, there seems to be a "lag" in many of the Nook's features.


----------



## Tip10

Was in my local B&N this weekend -- big Nook counter, nobody in it, no demo units, no mock ups, two little card holders with cardboard info sheets -- one empty, one about 1/3 full.  No people around and appeared to be drawing no interest whatsoever.  I was amazed.  I figured they'd at least have someone hanging close to the booth if not manning it but no employee even came close to it in the hour or so I was there.  Wife and I even picked up one of the cards, read it and stood there discussing what it said for probably 10 minutes before wandering off.  This was at a big B&N right outside one of the largest shopping malls in Southern Illinois.
Go figure....


----------



## mindreader

Got a chance to test drive the nook demo at my local B&N.  It's a nice looking device that feels nice in the hand.  (The demo I tried didn't have any of the lag issues that have been rumored, for what it's worth.)  The color and "flicking" (sorta like how you turn pages on the iPhone) aspect of the bottom screen was cool, though that was really the only feature that made it significantly different from the kindle, imo.

From my brief time handling it, I wondered if it would be as easy to use one-handed (as I often do commuting) as my K1 is. I think clicking out or in (as on kindle) facilitates that - as opposed to clicking down on the nook - but it could have just been that I'm used to my ereader and haven't gotten the hang of this one.

The color screen is nice but the only feature of the physical device that I would say was different "enough" from my K1.  And that wouldn't be enough for me to switch at any point (price of the K1 + the price of e-books being the chief reasons I took the plunge with my refurb).  But the nook would be a serious contender if I were shopping for my first ereader today - it's a nice looking device.


----------



## Chad Winters

Seems like a bad idea to make a lot of promises and inflate your features, aren't people going to be dissapointed when it doesn't do what they said it would?


----------



## vermontcathy

I love my Kindle 2. But a few things I did like about the nook in a review I saw, that I think Amazon should implement - 1) you can pick a different font. Sure we can do this with the hack but it would be nice to be able to do this natively, without plugging into the computer to change the font (for
instance if I want to read a magazine in sans-serif and a book in serif). 2) Looks like the books price is displayed right away on the nook store. Shopping from the kindle (not on the computer), if you search for a word or author, in the list that comes up, no prices are listed. You have to go in to each one to see a price. This is especially annoying when looking at public domain books where there might be more than one version (and various prices).

On the other hand... the next and prev page buttons look like they aren't physical buttons but are touch sensitive or something. Does that mean you can't leave your thumb on them constantly, they way I do with the kindle? 

I for one am very happy with my kindle esp. after seeing the review. I like that there are physical buttons. For instance if I want to search for a word, I'm glad I can just start typing - I don't have to turn on the touch screen, go into a menu, pick search, etc. Or for instance, Atl-B for a bookmark. I bet that isn't that simple on a nook. In fact I wish there were more AlT shortcuts. I'd like one that would go to My Notes and Marks (there isn't one for that, is there?)

But I agree that we want the nook to be decent because it will keep Amazon on their toes, constantly improving.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Springfield, VA B&N has a nook; I just called.  I'm going to do a field trip today with hubby.  Will report back.

Betsy


----------



## larryb52

they have one here in white march Md, I guess I'll stop to take a look but it's still a reader & I am happy with my kindle, I'm just a techie I suppose always like to see something new...


----------



## mindreader

vermontcathy said:


> I love my Kindle 2. But a few things I did like about the nook in a review I saw, that I think Amazon should implement - 1) you can pick a different font. Sure we can do this with the hack but it would be nice to be able to do this natively, without plugging into the computer to change the font (for
> instance if I want to read a magazine in sans-serif and a book in serif). 2) Looks like the books price is displayed right away on the nook store. Shopping from the kindle (not on the computer), if you search for a word or author, in the list that comes up, no prices are listed. You have to go in to each one to see a price. This is especially annoying when looking at public domain books where there might be more than one version (and various prices).
> 
> On the other hand... the next and prev page buttons look like they aren't physical buttons but are touch sensitive or something. Does that mean you can't leave your thumb on them constantly, they way I do with the kindle?
> 
> I for one am very happy with my kindle esp. after seeing the review. I like that there are physical buttons. For instance if I want to search for a word, I'm glad I can just start typing - I don't have to turn on the touch screen, go into a menu, pick search, etc. Or for instance, Atl-B for a bookmark. I bet that isn't that simple on a nook. In fact I wish there were more AlT shortcuts. I'd like one that would go to My Notes and Marks (there isn't one for that, is there?)
> 
> But I agree that we want the nook to be decent because it will keep Amazon on their toes, constantly improving.


I asked about changing font size etc. this morning and the salesperson tried to find the menu to do that but couldn't (it was her first time handling it also). So I wasn't able to check out how that happens myself, though I agree changing the font as well as the size would be a nice feature but something I, personally, would only change once and not think about again.


----------



## mwvickers

As far as the next page buttons, one review mentioned that they made an audible click (don't know how loud), so I assume they are actual buttons and not merely touch-sensitive ones.


----------



## vermontcathy

That's good about the buttons being real rather than touch-sensitive.

WRT changing the font size and the font, the CNET review says "you have a few fonts to choose from (Amasis, Helvetica Neue, and Light Classic), which is nice." : http://reviews.cnet.com/e-book-readers/barnes-noble-nook/4505-3508_7-33786175.html


----------



## luvmy4brats

At B&N now. 2 demo units. Tried them both with identical results. I tried opening a book they already had downloaded, just got a formatting screen and then blank pages. Couldn't get the book open for anything. Tried another book, which opened, but it took forever to get it to.  searching and highlighting isn't nearly as easy as with the Kindle. The touch screen is slow to respond. 

Their sales tactics and all the misinformation they were spreading about the Kindle really put me off. I finally had to walk away.


----------



## Varin

luvmy4brats said:


> At B&N now. 2 demo units. Tried them both with identical results. I tried opening a book they already had downloaded, just got a formatting screen and then blank pages. Couldn't get the book open for anything. Tried another book, which opened, but it took forever to get it to. searching and highlighting isn't nearly as easy as with the Kindle. The touch screen is slow to respond.
> 
> Their sales tactics and all the misinformation they were spreading about the Kindle really put me off. I finally had to walk away.


Ohh!

I'm going to barnes and nobles this friday with my friend to check it out. We're bringing our kindles- Me, My KDX and her, her K2.... Just wanna see how a true side by side comparison goes.


----------



## teiresias

What kind of misinformation about the Kindle are the B&N employees spreading?


----------



## Carld

Anne said:


> The Early Show had The Kindle DX, Kindle 2, Sony and The Nook here is where they compare them
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/07/earlyshow/leisure/gamesgadgetsgizmos/main5922376.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody


Definitely some snake oil sales going on there. They make is sound like the Nook doesn't have any DRM which simply isn't true.


----------



## Chad Winters

Haha....everyone sold on the Nook being "open" are in for a big surprise  

What good is an open standard like ePub with propretiary DRM that can't be read on other devices? How is that different than the Kindle? 

Journalism has really gone down hill......


----------



## luvmy4brats

Please ignore spelling and grammar. I'm on my phone. 

First, Since Kindle doesn't have an SD card it only holds a "limited amount" of books. Ok, yeah technically true, but in who's world is 1,500 a limited amount? 

Next, you MUST pay a fee if you want a document converted ( BTW nook doesn't read word documents) 

Third, Most Kindle books cost between $8-12 while ALL of nook's books are $9.99 

Fourth, you can only buy books from Amazon for the Kindle and they only have 370,000 while nook has a million. 

Fifth, nook has a user replaceaple battery. With a Kindle you'll have to mail it back and be without it for days while waiting for a new one.  (they also made it sound as if battery issues was a HUGE problem with 
the Kindle)  

Says Kindle doesn't read PDF natively. Which, ok, I'll cut them some slack there because that's new for the K2 and not available for K1.


----------



## lmk2045

The user manual is finally available on B&N's website.

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/pimages/nook/download/User_Guide_nook.pdf


----------



## intinst

Wow, 155 pages of pdf


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I'm at B&N in Springfield right now...got to look at the Nook quite a bit.  The salesman was quite nice, and not really into Kindle bashing; he did some comparisons to the Kindle but they were mostly of the like the Kindle, this does...and then he pulled out a chart that my husband looked at pretty well and that they later gave me a copy of, comparing the Kindle, the Nook and the Sony PRS600.  He didn't push the free book thing like the last B&N employee I talked to and in fact admitted that some of the B&N employees there HAD Kindles.

The font size thing was actually pretty easy to do while in a book; you can't access it apparently for the other menus, or if you can he couldn't find it either.

There are 4 font sizes, extra small, small, medium and large and I think three or four different fonts to choose from.

The color menu that shows up when one presses the little home key (looks like an upside down u, guess it's an "n" has an option for "reading now" which is how you access the book you're currently reading.

The keyboard seemed like it would be too small for me, but even with my fat fingers I was able to hit the key squares cleanly.

As someone else said, being able to see the prices on the book lists when browsing the store was quite nice.

The salesguy said that the lending feature was that you could only loan a book to one person at a time, but once the two week period was up, you COULD loan it to another person; just no more than one person at a time and that it would not be available to you while it was loaned out.  Which makes sense; you're loaning the license out.

He talked a little bit about the text to speech, because the person in front of me asked about it.  He said only the Kindle had that, but that it was kind of robotic.

The nook felt pretty good in my hand but heavier than I thought it would be, and the chart he showed us showed that it was 2 oz heavier.

Also, while I was here the staff discovered being able to buy ebooks by gift card had gone live.

Overall, I think the Kindle is a little more intuitive out of the box.  The page turn keys took a little bit more effort than I expected and I kept trying to use the upper screen as a touch screen since I was using the color screen as one; a problem I've never had with the Kindle.

Overall impression:  Not a major leap forward in the ereader wars other than the fact that B&N should be a major player.

Betsy


----------



## vermontcathy

Considering how much B&N is talking up the "openness" of the nook, the following info about DRM content purchased from B&N is kind of scary. It also means that you probably can't do what some people are doing with 2 accounts (for instance, to keep salacious material in one account so someone else doesn't see it) because de-registering could cause problems:

"If you unregister your nook, the information needed to open DRM-secured content is deleted. To open the content on an unregistered nook, you will need to enter your first name, last name, and default credit card number one time. You enter the first name, last name, and default credit card number that were in use when you downloaded the content.

If you downloaded the content at times when your account had different default credit cards, you will need to enter each credit card one time. For example, if you downloaded10 eBooks last year with a credit card ending in 1111, and another 10 eBooks this year with a credit card ending in 2222, then when you open one of the eBooks from last year, you will need to enter the credit card ending in 1111, and when you open one of the eBooks from this year, you will need to enter the credit card ending in 2222. After that, you can open all of the eBooks."


----------



## Meemo

911jason said:


> ...and I hope this is only because it's a pre-production unit, but the scraped-off paint above the color touchscreen would drive me nuts![/b]


If I'm looking at what you're looking at, to me it looks like that's the bottom of the screen (and Mr. Whitman's vest). I could be wrong though.


----------



## modkindle

I kind of laugh at the idea that there is going to be some major leap in ereaders that suddenly change reading. I don't see where that leap is going to come from. My Kindle works, really well. I don't get eyestrain, it is intuitive, I can easily get books. Granted there are features that will be nice when they come out but I think the functional technology is pretty much there. Unlike an Ipod, this can't really get smaller. People who read a lot are unlikely to ever want a true multifunction device. I predict the big changes with ereaders, especially over the next 3 to 5 years, will be in the areas of content and DRM, not technology.


----------



## Andra

Everyone who has actually looked at a Nook, thanks for posting your thoughts.  I am going to put more faith in the opinions of folks here on Kindleboards than some random reporter...


----------



## The Hooded Claw

modkindle said:


> I kind of laugh at the idea that there is going to be some major leap in ereaders that suddenly change reading. I don't see where that leap is going to come from. My Kindle works, really well. I don't get eyestrain, it is intuitive, I can easily get books. Granted there are features that will be nice when they come out but I think the functional technology is pretty much there. Unlike an Ipod, this can't really get smaller. People who read a lot are unlikely to ever want a true multifunction device. I predict the big changes with ereaders, especially over the next 3 to 5 years, will be in the areas of content and DRM, not technology.


I hope (which of course is not the same as think) that we'll see color screens, whether from eInk or another vendor. But of course those aren't on the table with the Nook.

Other than that, there can certainly be incremental improvements (organizational stuff like folders or better). The biggie will be when some whiz kid comes up with the must-have ebook feature that we didn't know we needed, but won't be able to live without once we see it. What that will be, I have no idea, and of course it may never happen.

But I am still waiting for color that works in a way that quality color illustrations can be shown in ebooks.


----------



## vermontcathy

I agree that it seems a color screen (or maybe greyscale with a whiter background?) is really the only physical upgrade that I can think of, and I think these would be a few years off. Some people have been wondering when a kindle 3 might be coming out, but I just can't see any improvements that couldn't be done via software (such as more formatting options (justification and different fonts), folders, etc.).


----------



## pidgeon92

Betsy the Quilter said:


> The salesguy said that the lending feature was that you could only loan a book to one person at a time, but once the two week period was up, you COULD loan it to another person; just no more than one person at a time and that it would not be available to you while it was loaned out. Which makes sense; you're loaning the license out.


You would really think that by now they would at least be giving out correct information on this topic.



B&N FAQ said:


> You can lend many of your eBooks one time for a maximum of 14 days.


Here is the B&N e-book FAQ page, and the above is part of the answer of the first question of the _Getting & Managing ebooks_ section.


----------



## kevindorsey

Anarel said:


> Ohh!
> 
> I'm going to barnes and nobles this friday with my friend to check it out. We're bringing our kindles- Me, My KDX and her, her K2.... Just wanna see how a true side by side comparison goes.


Wow, that's a real review right there.


----------



## Selcien

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> Haha....everyone sold on the Nook being "open" are in for a big surprise
> 
> What good is an open standard like ePub with propretiary DRM that can't be read on other devices? How is that different than the Kindle?
> 
> Journalism has really gone down hill......


Sony and B&N's planned switch to ePub is simply half of the equation, the other half is for Adobe to create a standard DRM.



vermontcathy said:


> Considering how much B&N is talking up the "openness" of the nook, the following info about DRM content purchased from B&N is kind of scary. It also means that you probably can't do what some people are doing with 2 accounts (for instance, to keep salacious material in one account so someone else doesn't see it) because de-registering could cause problems:
> 
> "If you unregister your nook, the information needed to open DRM-secured content is deleted. To open the content on an unregistered nook, you will need to enter your first name, last name, and default credit card number one time. You enter the first name, last name, and default credit card number that were in use when you downloaded the content.
> 
> If you downloaded the content at times when your account had different default credit cards, you will need to enter each credit card one time. For example, if you downloaded10 eBooks last year with a credit card ending in 1111, and another 10 eBooks this year with a credit card ending in 2222, then when you open one of the eBooks from last year, you will need to enter the credit card ending in 1111, and when you open one of the eBooks from this year, you will need to enter the credit card ending in 2222. After that, you can open all of the eBooks."


Outside of extreme circumstances (your house catches on fire and burns all of your records), it should be a simple matter to write down the numbers that you've used, and then type those in to activate a device, when you want to switch accounts simply deactivate it, and put in the other numbers. Further, going by what I've read about Fictionwise, who uses the same approach, if you lose the old activation numbers you can go to their site and change the card, it does mean having to download new files from the store as that's the only way to have them connected to the new number, but it's not like you'll completely lose the books if you forget what card you used.

The benefits with only one reader are negligible but the benefits of multiple readers is great. I have a K1 and a DX, in order to have working backup copies for those devices I need to have a backup for each device as they are locked into the devices themselves, if I bought another Kindle those files would be unusable on it, so I'd have to obtain working e-books from Amazon. With B&N's approach I'd only have to backup one file as it's not locked into a device, and once I activate the new reader I can use the backups I already have, no need to juggle multiple files of the same e-book. The only time I'd need new files is when I needed to change the card they are associated with.

I'd rather not have DRM but if I do have to have it, I'd rather the books be locked into a number than locked into an individual reader.


----------



## Jesslyn

I'm sorry, but that credit card thing is a deal breaker for me.  So 10 years from now I need to keep a file with old CC numbers?  No thanks.  Its my hope that sometime in the future Amazon will allow downloading of my archived books onto my Kindle 5 or other device using my Amazon account information or some other easy way.  As evidenced by the current trend to nickname payment methods, vendors realize that a 16 digit number ain't the way to go.


----------



## Meemo

Carld said:


> Definitely some snake oil sales going on there. They make is sound like the Nook doesn't have any DRM which simply isn't true.


Exactly what I said to my husband when we watched it this morning - I don't know that it was so much "sales" as sloppy journalism. They're all DRMed if you buy from their bookstores. (At least for the most part, apparently there are exceptions among books.)


----------



## Carld

mwvickers said:


> As far as the next page buttons, one review mentioned that they made an audible click (don't know how loud), so I assume they are actual buttons and not merely touch-sensitive ones.


I read somewhere that the "buttons" aren't real buttons, they're pressure sensitive edges of the case.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Carld said:


> I read somewhere that the "buttons" aren't real buttons, they're pressure sensitive edges of the case.


That's correct from my demo today, and they take a good push, more than my K1.

Betsy


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

pidgeon92 said:


> You would really think that by now they would at least be giving out correct information on this topic.
> 
> Here is the B&N e-book FAQ page, and the above is part of the answer of the first question of the _Getting & Managing ebooks_ section.


I specifically asked him this....sigh. Which do you think is right?

Betsy


----------



## pidgeon92

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I specifically asked him this....sigh. Which do you think is right?


I am certain that the FAQ is correct, and this has been corroborated by the admins on the B&N site.

Here is a quote by an admin from this thread:


> Thank you for your inquiry TinkerBell1981. At this time, you can only lend an eBook to someone else once. After that one time, you will not be able to lend it to anyone else.


Can you imagine publishers allowing you to willy-nilly lend books to everybody? Look at how nuts they went over text-to-speech.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Well, I can't see much point to only being able to loan the book once, either.  It's not like there are going to be THAT many Nook people you know to send the book to.

Betsy


----------



## Nathan

The lending feature as-is is a Red Herring...it is a marketing point at best, not really a consumer benefit.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Hmmm.  The thread you sent me to Verena shows the B&N customer service is frequently telling people the same thing I was told today....sigh.  As you said, when will they start giving out correct information.

Betsy


----------



## Nathan

so what would be a suitable middle ground for lending?  Only unlimited? 10 times? 5?

I also love how they called it LendMe™ technology...this is the same DRM function the public library has been using for awhile (as previously stated)


----------



## pidgeon92

Betsy the Quilter said:


> It's not like there are going to be THAT many Nook people you know to send the book to.


But... You can also share with people who use the B&N applications.... on the PC or Mac... On the iPhone or Blackberry.... That really opens it up.


----------



## The Hooded Claw

Nathan said:


> The lending feature as-is is a Red Herring...it is a marketing point at best, not really a consumer benefit.


I'm not a huge fan of the Nook lending feature as is, but I think that's going a bit far. If two Nook owners both have similar tastes for light reading that they don't feel a need to keep, they can collaborate by taking turns who buys the current light reading, then sharing it with the other. That's worth something.

I actually sympathize with publishers who resent unlimited lending. I can conceive of people setting up exchanges on web forums and exchanging books endlessly, far outside the social circle of the original purchaser. So there need to be some limits, I just think lending one time for two weeks only is a little too weak.

Probably the most positive thing about this is that it establishes lending as a desirable feature marketing-wise. Amazon may now feel some presure to institute lending, and either vendors such as Amazon, or readers may start putting pressure to loosen the terms of lending. The Nook may be the critical first baby step towards having a user-friendly lending feature.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

pidgeon92 said:


> But... You can also share with people who use the B&N applications.... on the PC or Mac... On the iPhone or Blackberry.... That really opens it up.


Well, even so, as is I only loan paper books to two or three people, they'd have to be people who want to read the same books I do, too....how many people are really going to want to read the zombie version of Pride and Prejudice? But of course, the possibility of online clubs sharing books could be pretty daunting.

The guy also told me they (staff) couldn't get an employee discount on buying the Nook either. But apparently you do get a free cookie.

Betsy


----------



## luvmy4brats

mindreader said:


> Was at B&N today and visited the nook counter. I was mostly interested in checking out the covers but stayed to hear the salesman's pitch to passersby. Must say that I'm alittle disappointed in B&N for all the misinformation they're allowing (making?) their staff to deliver about he kindle in comparison to the nook. Statements like "with the kindle you can only read material purchased on Amazon" and when asked about the price of nook books, "$9.99 for bestsellers while Amazon books range from $8 to $12" as if to imply that Amazon's prices average higher (which hasn't been my experience). That was just some of it. Had to leave after awhile cause I knew I wouldn't be able to hold my tongue.
> 
> I'm a kindle owner but I still a B&N member and still shop there. I was looking forward to the nook because of all the new people it would bring to "e-booking." But the thought that they're using so much misinfo to market the product bothers me.


This is EXACTLY what I was told today, almost word for word (you're not in Maryland are you?). I had hoped it was an overzealous employee, but I guess not. I'm pretty disappointed in their marketing strategy. Instead of focusing on what the nook can do, they rely on misinformation and half-truths by bashing the other devices.

As for the lending, I can only imagine how upset purchasers are going to be when they discover that they'll only be able to lend it one time, instead of unlimited times like they're being told by salespeople. This is an overhyped feature that is going to backfire on them.


----------



## geko29

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Well, even so, as is I only loan paper books to two or three people, they'd have to be people who want to read the same books I do, too....how many people are really going to want to read the zombie version of Pride and Prejudice?


I wanted to, but I wish I hadn't. Not even "ultraviolent zombie mayhem", beheadings, gore, and ninjas can make Jane Austin enjoyable. (Flame suit on!) I think it took me 6 months to finish.


----------



## mlewis78

I went out to mail a couple of things and decided to walk up to the closest Barnes & Noble to check it out.  Luckily the Nook counter was not mobbed at all.  They had two demo Nooks.  I played with one while the sales person was showing features on the other one to a customer.  

The page turns were slow, at least compared with my K2 and KDX.  Perhaps the battery was running low, but I don't know.  I had to ask the sales person to show me the different fonts.  He was having a bit of trouble with the touch screen to get to the font changes, so he went to get the charger for it and I looked at the other Nook that was already connected with a charger.  He showed me the fonts after he returned, but I didn't look at the 3rd one, since another customer came over to look at it.  The standard font was one of the serif fonts, like Georgia.  I saw the helvetica font and it looked good, like the one I use (H2) from the font hack.  I forgot to notice how the contrast was compared with my kindles.

They had one cover style (I don't see it on their website now) in green or black and there was a black hard plastic sleeve ($30) for a naked Nook.  The cover had a name like Tupper and was pretty nice for $30.


----------



## lmk2045

More nook delays.:

From the nook blog:

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Unbound-The-eReading-Blog/bg-p/Unbound

Customers with an original expected ship date of Dec. 7 are getting an email tonight indicating that their nooks will arrive by Dec. 16. We appreciate your patience as we fulfill orders in the order in which they were received.


----------



## mindreader

luvmy4brats said:


> This is EXACTLY what I was told today, almost word for word (you're not in Maryland are you?). I had hoped it was an overzealous employee, but I guess not. I'm pretty disappointed in their marketing strategy. Instead of focusing on what the nook can do, they rely on misinformation and half-truths by bashing the other devices.
> 
> As for the lending, I can only imagine how upset purchasers are going to be when they discover that they'll only be able to lend it one time, instead of unlimited times like they're being told by salespeople. This is an overhyped feature that is going to backfire on them.


Funny, I'm in NYC.

I guess it's understandable that they're using a "script." I just wish it was a FACTUAL one. 

My salesperson DID do something that I appreciated (amidst all the misinfo): when asked how many books would be available to nook owners, he initially said, "1 million," but then thought for a bit and pointed out that that may be optimistic given the recent Times article. That last bit appeared to be a departure from what's obviously "the script."


----------



## KindleChickie

Got to check one out today.  The touch screen lags real bad.  But I loved the smaller footprint and the designer cases. And gotta admit, sitting in their store and reading for free (even if it is just an hour) sounds real nice.

And they are giving out tons of misinformation.


----------



## Scheherazade

I want to go into a Barnes and Noble just to confront them with all this misinformation now and I don't even usually put myself out like that.  But it's pretty ridiculous.  I really hope people do their research and it backfires.  Something that could be a fine product is going to get its good name and the good name of the company a pretty big ding if all those lies go public.


----------



## pidgeon92

I prefer to think that the B&N booksellers (nooksellers?) are simply poorly-trained, vs. deliberately giving out bad information. Some people simply cannot process and articulate technical data. In the case of the lending feature, it simply seems so ludicrous that it can only be done once, perhaps the salespeople simply think that the limitation cannot be right.

If certain features are really really important to you on any device, it is imperative to do your own research - and read reviews from users - rather than relying on a salesperson for information.


----------



## KindleChickie

I would like to believe it wasnt intentional either, but having actually had 2 conversations with 2 different nook sellers I can tell you they are being told falsehoods and stick to them even with you try to explain the truth.


----------



## Scheherazade

pidgeon92 said:


> I prefer to think that the B&N booksellers (nooksellers?) are simply poorly-trained, vs. deliberately giving out bad information. Some people simply cannot process and articulate technical data. In the case of the lending feature, it simply seems so ludicrous that it can only be done once, perhaps the salespeople simply think that the limitation cannot be right.
> 
> If certain features are really really important to you on any device, it is imperative to do your own research - and read reviews from users - rather than relying on a salesperson for information.


It's hard to think that with so many different people telling us they've heard the same exact misinformation being given out. It sounds like they got talking points or even training on how to spin the Nook as the better device and they're spreading it around willy nilly.


----------



## pidgeon92

Despite a lot of people getting what appears to be deliberate misinformation, I am still going with ignorance. I see so much ignorance daily - on countless topics - I think it is far more prevalent than malevolence. And let's face it, ignorance is the easy choice.

My 7th grade teacher often said "if ignorance were bliss, we'd all be in heaven." I'll never forget you, Mr. Delin.


----------



## The Hooded Claw

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

--The Hooded Claw  (well, actually it was Napoleon Bonaparte, but the Claw _WISHES_ he'd been the first to say it!


----------



## lynninva

I understand the current lending rules are one time per book, but is there something like the Amazon feature of having multiple ereaders on the same account that can share books?  That is a huge deal for me - the books that I buy can be read by my husband, at any time, on his Kindle.


----------



## bigdog5142

I played with a Nook today at a local B&N store.  

Great device.  I bought a K2 recently (Christmas present from my wife) and love it.  However, I really like the Nook and its interface better than the Kindle.  However, some of the navigation does get a bit frustrating as you have to "wake up" the screen.  

Ultimately, there are strengths and weaknesses of each product.  What is probably going to keep me with the Kindle is the fact that while B&N boasts over a million e-books, I have had more instances where I can find the e-book that I'm looking for on Kindle when I cannot find the e-book on B&N.  They have the paper book, but not the e-book.  It does seem like B&N does have more e-magazines.  

I'm pretty sure I'm staying with the Kindle.  I'm still going somewhat in-between, but I'm thinking I'm sticking around.  Competition will be good for both Amazon and B&N...they will push each other to get more books and upgrade devices.  Both had better watch out for Apple...with the rumored iTablet (or whatever they're going to call it), Steve Jobs may be on the warpath...


----------



## artsandhistoryfan

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> Haha....everyone sold on the Nook being "open" are in for a big surprise
> 
> What good is an open standard like ePub with propretiary DRM that can't be read on other devices? How is that different than the Kindle? ...


 Today, Sony switched to the Adobe Digital Edition method of DRM which is put 'over' the otherwise open ePub format which they also switched to as the file format. If you purchase a book with this combo of ePub + Adobe DRM, then you can transfer your book to any other reader that reads ePub and is licensed for Adobe Digital Edition. Even the Astak can read this. So will Nook and probably iRex.

We can't do that with the Kindle -- move it to another e-reader and have it readable. It is a big help that we can read our ebooks on a pc but someday they need to make it so we can


----------



## Chad Winters

artsandhistoryfan said:


> Today, Sony switched to the Adobe Digital Edition method of DRM which is put 'over' the otherwise open ePub format which they also switched to as the file format. If you purchase a book with this combo of ePub + Adobe DRM, then you can transfer your book to any other reader that reads ePub and is licensed for Adobe Digital Edition. Even the Astak can read this. So will Nook and probably iRex.
> 
> We can't do that with the Kindle -- move it to another e-reader and have it readable. It is a big help that we can read our ebooks on a pc but someday they need to make it so we can


Nice catch, that's interesting news that I hadn't heard yet! That would give an advantage, like if Amazon decided to stop selling ebooks I could move my library to another device. As it is, I'm pretty much tied to Amazon even if a better device comes along because of my hundreds of books that I have purchased that can only be read on the Kindle/Kindle programs.


----------



## vermontcathy

Although being able to read our Amazon books on other devices would be nice, I'm not thrilled about the Nook's DRM process, particularly if you unregister it (see earlier posts which talk about putting in credit card numbers etc.) I like that once I have a book, it doesn't matter what happens to Amazon, or whether my device is registered - the book file works on my kindle without a problem.

Plus, wrt to credit card numbers... what if you bought a book with a gift card? What if someone else bought you a book (if that's possible). Then what?


----------



## Tip10

Has anybody ever gotten an answer to the question of how many Nooks can share an account -- or if its even possible to have more than one Nook per account?


----------



## vermontcathy

Tip10 said:


> Has anybody ever gotten an answer to the question of how many Nooks can share an account -- or if its even possible to have more than one Nook per account?


The user manual says "A specific nook can be associated with only one BN.com account. More than one nook can be associated with the same BN.com account."

It also says that to register your nook, you have to be in a wireless area, or at a B&N store (in the US). This is similar to kindle, except that kindles come registered (seems like the nook doesn't - it says when you first turn it on, it will lead you through registration). What happens when someone in the middle of nowhere orders a nook, it doesn't come registered, and they live hours from a B&N store?


----------



## Meriflower

I also am interested in seeing how good B&Ns customer and technical service will be once Nooks are out there and being used in the long run.


----------



## KindleChickie

I installed the B&N nook ereader ap on the iPod touch last night.  I am going to find a free book to download on B&N to see how it differs from the Kindle ap.


----------



## Jesslyn

vermontcathy said:


> Although being able to read our Amazon books on other devices would be nice, I'm not thrilled about the Nook's DRM process, particularly if you unregister it (see earlier posts which talk about putting in credit card numbers etc.) I like that once I have a book, it doesn't matter what happens to Amazon, or whether my device is registered - the book file works on my kindle without a problem.
> 
> Plus, wrt to credit card numbers... what if you bought a book with a gift card? What if someone else bought you a book (if that's possible). Then what?


Unfortunately for nookies, I really (really) think that this is only going to start biting bottoms a year or so from now. Forgotten, lost credit cards, different numbers, changing companies, etc. But by then it may be too late. This is a horrible solution and after reviewing Adobe's development site, it could be done with a password, not just a credit card.


----------



## pidgeon92

vermontcathy said:


> except that kindles come registered (seems like the nook doesn't - it says when you first turn it on, it will lead you through registration).


Nook is registered to the account it is ordered from, _unless_ you check the option "this is a gift" during checkout.


----------



## Carld

I've heard a lot about ePub being an open format, but what I haven't heard people talk about is that each ePub device can have its own DRM scheme. As far as I know there's no guarantee that B&N will support Sony's DRM scheme and vice versa and so on. I'd really like to see someone test the ePub format for compatibility before everyone ends up disappointed that they can't read ePub books that they've bought.


----------



## 911jason

Meemo said:


> If I'm looking at what you're looking at, to me it looks like that's the bottom of the screen (and Mr. Whitman's vest). I could be wrong though.


No, I'm actually talking about the white flaked off paint area along the top edge of the *bottom* screen below the N symbol.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

I see what you mean:  under the bar that separates the e-ink screen from the color display. . . . it does look like something has rubbed off there. . . . .cosmetic, but I can see where it could be distracting.


----------



## klopus

I was torn between K2 (not DX) and Nook though I'm not even sure both are applicable for reading tech books which is my main purpose. I went to the local Manhattan B&N store and played with Nook, I also studied tech specs and read reviews. As a technical person for me it's clear that as a gadget Nook is more advanced and probably more usable device than K2 - second LCD screen, replaceable battery, WiFi. Yes, interface is unpolished, slow and buggy. But, hey, it's version 1.0 of the firmware and I'm sure there will be huge improvements with subsequent firmware updates soon. 

I also hate closed formats that tie K2 to Amazon, both in proprietary eBook format and OS. Nook sports ePUB and Android. Former means more choice with free eBooks and potential not to lock your paid eBook library to a single hardware vendor if B&N, Sony and others will settle on the same  DRM scheme like Adobe's which I think they eventually will. Latter (open OS) means that you may expect many 3rd party contributions to Nook including interesting apps for the LCD. B&N numerous times indicated that they are going to allow that and have something like Apple App Store for the Nook.

Having said all above what immediately killed Nook for me was total lack of titles in Finance and Computing that interest me. Where Amazon has literally hundreds of eBooks in these fields including those I'm looking for B&N's current selection is simply laughable. Moreover the sales guy indicated that B&N positions Nook as a "consumer" device intended mostly for fiction and light fare and digitizing more technical and specialized stuff isn't even on their list until they produce a larger format professional "Nook DX", provided that current "lowly" Nook is doing well. 

I'm not sure K2 will be useful with tech books but Nook is totally out of question simply due to lack of what I want to read on it.


----------



## 911jason

I admit I have ADD or ADHD or OCD or whatever it is that causes my eye to see every flaw. Believe me, I sure wish I wasn't this way... This same issue is what caused me to remove the front skin from my Kindle. I just couldn't get the alignment perfectly even around the screen and my eye was constantly picking up on that fact while I was trying to read. Very distracting...

Thankfully, my wife is *flawless* or this would have a very negative impact on my marriage!!!


----------



## Chad Winters

are you sure one of her eyes aren't slightly closer to her nose than the other one? That happens a lot...


----------



## Scheherazade

Ann in Arlington said:


> I see what you mean: under the bar that separates the e-ink screen from the color display. . . . it does look like something has rubbed off there. . . . .cosmetic, but I can see where it could be distracting.


Someone said it before and I think I agree. Look -really- closely at the "flaked" off area. It looks like it's actually part of the picture on the eink screen beneath the bevel. No less distracting, and even more so when a page is up because it'll be all grey with no black to shade it, but I don't think it's flaked paint. I'd need to see other shots to be sure though.


----------



## Carld

Scheherazade said:


> Someone said it before and I think I agree. Look -really- closely at the "flaked" off area. It looks like it's actually part of the picture on the eink screen beneath the bevel. No less distracting, and even more so when a page is up because it'll be all grey with no black to shade it, but I don't think it's flaked paint. I'd need to see other shots to be sure though.


If true that would be a really strange decision by B&N. The e-Ink screen is by far the most expensive component of ebook devices. I'd be really surprised if B&N chose to cover up a sizeable strip of screen real estate for what is basically one button.


----------



## Emily King

I just went to B&N today to play with the nook and wasn't impressed.  My friend's wife bought him a nook for Christmas (pre-ordered and he found out ahead of time) and wanted to check it out to see if he wanted to cancel the order or not.  The nook was heavier, thicker and when we compared page turns side by side with my kindle, I can turn my page 3 to 4 times on my K2 in the same amount of time as the nook.  When he tried to change the font, we sat for a few minutes before he tried to figure out how to cancel the request.  The folks working at the store had zero knowledge about the nook and couldn't help us figure out how to do anything with it.  One of them took the nook from us to try to "help" and was touching the reading part of the screen to select something, so I had to help him figure out how to navigate on it.  He said it was the first time he'd seen it.  When we tried to download a sample of a book on it, it bombed.  The only books on it were the welcome document and the help document/user guide.

I did look closely at it and there wasn't any flaking paint on the case around the touch screen part - I looked specifically because of this thread.


----------



## libros_lego

I'm just wondering what kinds of apps they'd want to put on the nook (or any other e-readers). Really, just curious.


----------



## Sparkplug

Jenni said:


> I'm just wondering what kinds of apps they'd want to put on the nook (or any other e-readers). Really, just curious.


I think Scrabble and maybe other word games would interest e-reader owners... just a thought anyways. A semi-decent web browser would probably be appealing.


----------



## klopus

Jenni said:


> I'm just wondering what kinds of apps they'd want to put on the nook (or any other e-readers). Really, just curious.


Word games, Weather, Stocks, World Clock, Wikipedia, IM, ... Translation could be useful - you saw a French word in what you are reading and, voilà, you know what it means in English.


----------



## libros_lego

Ah, okay. But this would be on the small LCD screen, right? Because I don't think it'd work well on the e-ink screen.


----------



## Meriflower

klopus said:


> Word games, Weather, Stocks, World Clock, Wikipedia, IM, ... Translation could be useful - you saw a French word in what you are reading and, voilà, you know what it means in English.


I think people already have those things with a laptop or something more portable, an iPod touch.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

If I could have all of those things in a package the same size and weight and price as the Kindle with no sacrifice of the ease and pleasure of reading on it, yeah, I'd be interested.  But if there is a trade off, no deal.  I'll keep my dedicated ereader.  Especially at a cost of weight and ease of use.  Just sayin'....

Betsy


----------



## Vegas_Asian

I touched a nook today. I went to the nearby B&N after Ellen d challenge. The location had just got it in. Not totally crazy about it. Talking to the person at customer service you have to be in a wifi hotspot to download books. The touch screen on The bottom isn't as response as I like. Text on eink screen is clear, we will see how it goes. Didn't play with it long the workers were staring at me (also carrying kindle cuz don't like it in my school bag with the heavy books)...so I ran off the starbucks to pick up my coffee


----------



## Scheherazade

I know it doesn't mean much and you do get the Nook when doing a normal Google search, but doing a Google image search for Kindle versus one for Nook is pretty telling on which is more popular... or at least more cleverly named.


----------



## Meemo

KindleChickie said:


> I installed the B&N nook ereader ap on the iPod touch last night. I am going to find a free book to download on B&N to see how it differs from the Kindle ap.


Hope it works better for you than it does for me.


----------



## Pirate

The Hooded Claw said:


> ............ Since I have a fair number of Baen science fiction books in that format, I am very turned off by that failing.


Ah another Baen Science fiction fan.  Most of my Baen books are in hard back, but I have been downloading a few eBooks.

The Pirate


----------



## UKLN5245




----------



## Meemo

Scheherazade said:


> Someone said it before and I think I agree. Look -really- closely at the "flaked" off area. It looks like it's actually part of the picture on the eink screen beneath the bevel. No less distracting, and even more so when a page is up because it'll be all grey with no black to shade it, but I don't think it's flaked paint. I'd need to see other shots to be sure though.


That was me, and it is what it looks like - however as I think about it I suspect those are probably two entirely separate screens. 
Wonder if they've got one at our local B&N. Doubtful....


----------



## Scheherazade

They're definitely separate screens... I'm beginning to wonder if it's just some sort of editing or something in photoshop that did it.  There was a picture of the inside of a Nook running around somewhere and the screens were separated by more space than would be possible in that picture.  if I remember correctly.  Any other photos I see of that angle don't show any grey.  I may sneak by B&N today on my way home from school.  I still say the flakiness in that shot is totally from the eink screen.  Whether this is due to some weird mockup model or aftereffects on the photo or what I donno, but I think if you were to fill in another inch of the photo at the bottom that you'd find the lines lining up.


----------



## KindleChickie

Meemo said:


> Hope it works better for you than it does for me.


I havent been able to get it to work at all.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

My 2¢ worth:    I have not been able to form a responsible opinion because when I stopped at B&N on the way back from my hair appointment, there were no nooks.  There were a couple of big signs about them.  And brochures that are the size, but not the weight of the actual devices, but no actual nooks.


----------



## pidgeon92

My nook is on the UPS truck today.... Two more weeks 'til Christmas.... *sigh*


----------



## akpak

klopus said:


> I also hate closed formats that tie K2 to Amazon, both in proprietary eBook format and OS.


You are aware that it's not "tied" that tightly at all? You are NOT confined to only the content you can buy at Amazon. The Kindle WILL read a variety of formats, and Amazon even provides an easy way to convert documents for use on the Kindle (not to mention the variety of tools available out there to do it yourself)

This is the BIGGEST piece of mis-information floating around out there.

The Kindle is no more limited to Amazon than the Nook is to B&N. BOTH use DRM, but that doesn't mean you can ONLY use DRM'd files on them!


----------



## mindreader

akjak said:


> You are aware that it's not "tied" that tightly at all? You are NOT confined to only the content you can buy at Amazon. The Kindle WILL read a variety of formats, and Amazon even provides an easy way to convert documents for use on the Kindle (not to mention the variety of tools available out there to do it yourself)
> 
> This is the BIGGEST piece of mis-information floating around out there.
> 
> The Kindle is no more limited to Amazon than the Nook is to B&N. BOTH use DRM, but that doesn't mean you can ONLY use DRM'd files on them!


It boggles the mind why Amazon doesn't play this up more. (Or do they and I haven't notice?). Even Pogue's Times review of the nook corrects this misconception, yet b&n still play it up as one of the main features that distinguishes their product from Amazon's.


----------



## FSkornia

mindreader said:


> It boggles the mind why Amazon doesn't play this up more. (Or do they and I haven't notice?). Even Pogue's Times review of the nook corrects this misconception, yet b&n still play it up as one of the main features that distinguishes their product from Amazon's.


Probably one reason Amazon isn't pushing this information more is that they really want us to get all our reading material from them. They don't make any money (and probably lose money) if we get all our reading material from other sources. While pointing out that Kindle readers aren't that limited on their book sources may be a good counter to a lot of the Kindle criticism flying around from B&N and other sources, it would hamper their own agenda of selling books through their Kindle store.

I just finished reading Pogue's review of the Nook in the New York Times and found amusing that a couple of the hardware "advantages" he gives to the Nook - the removable battery and the memory card slot - were features that were in the original Kindle but removed for the K2. I wonder whether we'll see a return of those two things for the K3.


----------



## Selcien

akjak said:


> You are aware that it's not "tied" that tightly at all? You are NOT confined to only the content you can buy at Amazon. The Kindle WILL read a variety of formats, and Amazon even provides an easy way to convert documents for use on the Kindle (not to mention the variety of tools available out there to do it yourself)
> 
> This is the BIGGEST piece of mis-information floating around out there.
> 
> The Kindle is no more limited to Amazon than the Nook is to B&N. BOTH use DRM, but that doesn't mean you can ONLY use DRM'd files on them!


I don't think it's misinformation so much as it is a lack of people clearly stating what they mean.

DRM free e-books are a complete non issue as their very nature makes them open to every e-reader. Therefor, the determining factor is DRM'd content, and only legal means of accessing said content, and that is were the Kindle suffers, and is the reason you see mention of the Kindle being locked into Amazon, 'cause when it comes to DRM'd content the Kindles are very much locked into Amazon.

Amazon willfully closed the Kindle off to DRM'd mobi formatted e-books, which is particularly insulting as it's their own format, they willfully made it so that they could be the only retailer to sell DRM'd e-books that can be used on Kindle. The other guys, Sony, B&N aren't saints, but they seem to be headed in the right direction, so as far as I'm concerned Amazon deserves every bit of heat they get and more besides.

I'm done playing Amazon's little game, I ordered Sony's PRS-600 last night, should ship tomorrow. Perhaps it won't work out as well as I hope but at least there's a chance that the DRM'd e-books that I buy for the Sony e-reader will work on an e-reader from a different company in the future, there is zero chance that the DRM'd e-books I buy from Amazon will work on any e-reader that's not theirs. If Amazon decides that they want to play with others then I'll start buying e-books from them again, but so long as they stick with their proprietary format, refuse to open up their device, well, they can rot for all I care.

I will add that I do realize that there are ways to free up the Amazon e-books but continuing to purchase e-books from them is only supporting what they're doing with DRM.

I'm keeping my K1 as the value of keeping it is greater than it's resale value, I haven't figured out what I'm going to do with my DX yet.


----------



## Meemo

KindleChickie said:


> I havent been able to get it to work at all.


I've reloaded it a couple of times. I have a hard time getting to books I've downloaded. I downloaded a free book, haven't started reading it yet but hesitate to close out of it because I know if I do I'll likely not be able to get back to it.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> My nook is on the UPS truck today.... Two more weeks 'til Christmas.... *sigh*


I wish my nook was on the UPS truck.


----------



## The Hooded Claw

Selcien said:


> I'm keeping my K1 as the value of keeping it is greater than it's resale value, I haven't figured out what I'm going to do with my DX yet.


I assume you're not ditching the various books you've purchased from Amazon. Presumably you bought the DX because the form factor was useful for some of those books. So I'd keep it and continue to use it for your existing purchases.

I do agree that dealing with Amazon, we voluntarily accept being in a cage in many ways. But it is a very nice gilded cage, so I'm not going to fly away unless things change for much the worse (unlike a real bird in a gilded cage, we do have the ability to fly away with no loss except possibly having to deal with two different formats of device after changing).


----------



## mlewis78

I don't feel locked in at all.  When Amazon introduced the Kindle, I passed on it because I thought it would be a trap to buy all my books here.  I had no idea about Manybooks and all the other sources of free and not-free books that we have.  I didn't know that whenever Oprah offered a free book download that it could go on the Kindle.  I didn't find out about all these options until after I placed in my order for the K1 in October, 2008.


----------



## Chris W

FSkornia said:


> I just finished reading Pogue's review of the Nook in the New York Times and found amusing that a couple of the hardware "advantages" he gives to the Nook - the removable battery and the memory card slot - were features that were in the original Kindle but removed for the K2. I wonder whether we'll see a return of those two things for the K3.


I think both of these features are extremely overrated. A replaceable battery means extra openings for dirt to enter the device, and extra weight from the battery access point. A memory card slot is similar, and with enough built in storage, plus your library backed up and accessible through Amazon on your iPod Touch / iPhone, Kindle for PC (or coming soon Mac or Blackberry), isn't 1500 books enought to keep on the actual device? Those features are really only critical to a few outlier users, and the newer design is just better and more appropriate for the vast majority of regular users.


----------



## mlewis78

Chris W said:


> I think both of these features are extremely overrated. A replaceable battery means extra openings for dirt to enter the device, and extra weight from the battery access point. A memory card slot is similar, and with enough built in storage, plus your library backed up and accessible through Amazon on your iPod Touch / iPhone, Kindle for PC (or coming soon Mac or Blackberry), isn't 1500 books enought to keep on the actual device? Those features are really only critical to a few outlier users, and the newer design is just better and more appropriate for the vast majority of regular users.


I agree, although those features were part of what kept me from going from K1 to K2 for a long while. I got over it after I bought my DX. Those features make the device heavier and thicker as well. I'm not sure why it's heavier but . . . it is.


----------



## Selcien

The Hooded Claw said:


> I assume you're not ditching the various books you've purchased from Amazon. Presumably you bought the DX because the form factor was useful for some of those books. So I'd keep it and continue to use it for your existing purchases.
> 
> I do agree that dealing with Amazon, we voluntarily accept being in a cage in many ways. But it is a very nice gilded cage, so I'm not going to fly away unless things change for much the worse (unlike a real bird in a gilded cage, we do have the ability to fly away with no loss except possibly having to deal with two different formats of device after changing).


I bought my DX simply because I hoped that it's larger screen would get me to read more than the K1 had, it did, I didn't need it for any particular book, it's all text fiction.

What I need to figure out is how soon I'm likely to purchase another large screen e-reader. The one that has my attention is the Plastic Logic Que which premieres on January 7, 2010 at CES. Finding out it's release date and how much it costs are two key factors 'cause not only will it determine when I would buy it, but whether I'd wait for a color screen, 'cause if it's going to cost me a bundle I just assume wait until it can be done in color.

The value of my Amazon collection isn't worth keeping the DX for but, as others have said, you can use DRM free content on it, the longer my DX can fill the role of being the large screen e-reader that I go to for that content the more value there is in keeping it.

So, I'd say that the seventh of January will be the day that I decide whether to keep it, or to get rid of it.


----------



## 911jason

Selcien said:


> I haven't figured out what I'm going to do with my DX yet.


I offer a free Kindle DX recycling program.


----------



## JimC1946

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=6401&tag=nl.e539


----------



## klopus

Here's the counter point, also from ZDnet and from a person who's known to be an expert in eBooks and reads a lot of them:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=2232&tag=wrapper;col1


----------



## Nathan

911jason said:


> I offer a free Kindle DX recycling program.


funny, I offer the same for unwanted whiskey


----------



## Scheherazade

I still don't like the whole removable battery thing... it's more of a drawback than an advantage in my opinion.  My sister has a K1 and can't stand it because the battery door always slips off.  The same thing happens with my Droid.  I would much rather have to take it in to get the battery replaced when it's something I will probably do maybe once within the lifetime of the device.  I guess I can see where people who swap out batteries when they go dead might like them, but ereaders have such a long battery life I don't see why you'd need to do this.


----------



## mwb

klopus said:


> Here's the counter point, also from ZDnet and from a person who's known to be an expert in eBooks and reads a lot of them:
> 
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=2232&tag=wrapper;col1


Can't say I was impressed with the review.

I found it kind of bizarre and a bit misleading.

And like so many others he leaves off the fact that the Nook doesn't read mobi files but the Kindle does.


----------



## Jesslyn

akjak said:


> You are aware that it's not "tied" that tightly at all? You are NOT confined to only the content you can buy at Amazon. The Kindle WILL read a variety of formats, and Amazon even provides an easy way to convert documents for use on the Kindle (not to mention the variety of tools available out there to do it yourself)
> 
> This is the BIGGEST piece of mis-information floating around out there.
> 
> The Kindle is no more limited to Amazon than the Nook is to B&N. BOTH use DRM, but that doesn't mean you can ONLY use DRM'd files on them!


I think the problem is that the Kindle will only read DRM from Amazon, whereas the nook will read DRM from a variety of sources. But in light of the following: http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/12/nook-barnes-and-noble-review-slow-page-turn-formatting-overview-glitch-update-speed-performance.html, I think I prefer a product that was more 'thought out'. Seems like some nook issues won't be able to get addressed in this 1st model as they are tied to the hardware.


----------



## Selcien

911jason said:


> I offer a free Kindle DX recycling program.


I'm quite sure that as long as the device is working I'll never have a problem giving it away, and if I do give it away my sister will have first dibs on it.



Nathan said:


> funny, I offer the same for unwanted whiskey


As it happens I do have a hardly touched bottle of whiskey, but that is something that I'm definitely keeping.



mwb said:


> Can't say I was impressed with the review.
> 
> I found it kind of bizarre and a bit misleading.
> 
> And like so many others he leaves off the fact that the Nook doesn't read mobi files but the Kindle does.


The Kindle reads DRM free mobi files, those files can be reformatted for the nook. DRM'd mobi files don't work on either device.

Besides, it's his video review that's helpful, the amount of time he spends showing the device will give people a clear idea of how well the device works, and whether it would be something they should consider buying.

Personally, after watching that video review I went to see if he had done a video review of the PRS-600, and found that he had. Based on both videos I'd say that the PRS-600 was the right choice for me, I'll find out tomorrow (that's when it's scheduled to be delivered.)


----------



## vermontcathy

It seems to me that there are two DRM issues. 

First, can I read DRM books purchased from Amazon on another device if sometime down the road I decided I like some other (non-Amazon) physical reader better? Not currently (legally). What about the nook? I think not currently, but it seems likely once the Adobe DRM stuff changes to keep up (you can tell I'm not sure here - a saw a page of FAQs at Adobe and it seemed like they were saying not yet but probably later).

Second, can I load DRM content purchased elsewhere (or from Overdrive libraries) on my device? Kindle, no. Nook yes. 

I am not (yet) particularly concerned about this because I am so happy with Amazon and the kindle. I also suspect that Amazon will at some point allow more flexibility. We've seen how they've responded with updates so that they compare favorably with the nook on other issues.


----------



## Selcien

vermontcathy said:


> It seems to me that there are two DRM issues.
> 
> First, can I read DRM books purchased from Amazon on another device if sometime down the road I decided I like some other (non-Amazon) physical reader better? Not currently (legally). What about the nook? I think not currently, but it seems likely once the Adobe DRM stuff changes to keep up (you can tell I'm not sure here - a saw a page of FAQs at Adobe and it seemed like they were saying not yet but probably later).


Here's the best answer I can come up with regarding the nook. It comes from a FAQ that Rachel posted a link to over on the nookboards. Customer FAQ: Adobe and Barnes & Noble. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/digitalpublishing/barnes_noble_faq.html

"Q: Will eBooks sold in the Barnes & Noble eBookstore be supported on existing Adobe Content Server compatible devices?
A: Not initially. Barnes & Noble is using the new password-based EPUB protection option that will require device manufacturers to use an enhanced Adobe Reader Mobile SDK. EPUB content from the Barnes & Noble eBookstore will be compatible as device manufacturers implement this upgrade. However, until the next major release of Adobe Digital Editions that supports content purchased from the Barnes & Noble eBookstore, users will be unable to use Digital Editions as a "helper application" to transfer content to compatible devices. Instead, users will need to manually transfer content to the compatible device. Note also that older, PDB content from Barnes & Noble will not be compatible with Adobe Digital Editions of RMSDK-enabled devices."

I'll be testing B&N's free e-books with my PRS-600 to see when/if such compatibility occurs.


----------



## vermontcathy

I read on the B&N board that the nook doesn't let you take notes or highlight on non-B&N content! If true, that would be very bad - esp. since people are psyched that the nook will display their DRM content from other sources. 

But I also learned something about the kindle! Someone asked if on the nook, if you to click the next button repeatedly, quickly, does it refresh each screen, or will it skip some refreshes like on the kindle. I had assumed I had to wait for each page to refresh. I never really thought about it. But I tried it, clicked "next" 10 times quickly and it only refreshed a few times and jumped. Cool! Those B&N forums are so useful!


----------



## Jesslyn

vermontcathy said:


> I read on the B&N board that the nook doesn't let you take notes or highlight on non-B&N content! If true, that would be very bad - esp. since people are psyched that the nook will display their DRM content from other sources.
> 
> But I also learned something about the kindle! Someone asked if on the nook, if you to click the next button repeatedly, quickly, does it refresh each screen, or will it skip some refreshes like on the kindle. I had assumed I had to wait for each page to refresh. I never really thought about it. But I tried it, clicked "next" 10 times quickly and it only refreshed a few times and jumped. Cool! Those B&N forums are so useful!


THen you hear something else horrifying. You can't delete anything from the device unless you go online or by connecting the USB. My mouth literally fell open.


----------



## funkyj

Nook -- meh!

Pogue's review said turning a page takes 3 seconds!?  I think my Kindle DX's 1 second page turn is abysmally slow.  3 seconds is "slit my wrists" long.

All things being equal, I prefer Amazon for being an internet and ebook innovator.  Of course things are not equal so Kindle wins hands down.


----------



## vermontcathy

Jesslyn said:


> THen you hear something else horrifying. You can't delete anything from the device unless you go online or by connecting the USB. My mouth literally fell open.


I thought people were talking about "archiving" a book (which is like us deleting an Amazon book - it goes to our archive). But maybe that's something they can only do from the computer or online... weird.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> My nook is on the UPS truck today.... Two more weeks 'til Christmas.... *sigh*


Was your Nook under the Tree? How did you like it?


----------



## pidgeon92

Yep, I got my nook yesterday.... I registered it right away - no problems - and then left it to charge for a few hours... To test it out, I purchased two books last night, both opened no problem.... I read the second one for about and hour, and so far it appears I got a very nice unit. I'm noticing very little lag, and everything is working properly. The different font options available are nice, and the screen is ever so slightly whiter than my Kindle... I am going to use it a few more days before I do a more in-depth comparison, but so far it is very very nice.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> Yep, I got my nook yesterday.... I registered it right away - no problems - and then left it to charge for a few hours... To test it out, I purchased two books last night, both opened no problem.... I read the second one for about and hour, and so far it appears I got a very nice unit. I'm noticing very little lag, and everything is working properly. The different font options available are nice, and the screen is ever so slightly whiter than my Kindle... I am going to use it a few more days before I do a more in-depth comparison, but so far it is very very nice.


I have a nook too. I really like it. Did you get the Library Girl cover by Kate Spade? That is the one I got.


----------



## pidgeon92

Anne said:


> I have a nook too. I really like it. Did you get the Library Girl cover by Kate Spade? That is the one I got.


Yep, exactly the same.... I like it quite a bit, and am currently deciding which skin to go with.... There is one on GelaSkins that I really like, but they haven't prepared any nook skins yet.... I looked at DecalGirl, and I haven't found one I really love yet.... But I am considering this one:










I need to get a skin for my new Zune, so may as well get them both at the same time.


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> Yep, exactly the same.... I like it quite a bit, and am currently deciding which skin to go with.... There is one on GelaSkins that I really like, but they haven't prepared any nook skins yet.... I looked at DecalGirl, and I haven't found one I really love yet.... But I am considering this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to get a skin for my new Zune, so may as well get them both at the same time.


I ordered the Library skin from Decal Girl it may be here tomorrow. You should check out the nook group. A lot of nice people like there are here

http://www.nookboards.com/forum/index.php


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> Yep, exactly the same.... I like it quite a bit, and am currently deciding which skin to go with.... There is one on GelaSkins that I really like, but they haven't prepared any nook skins yet.... I looked at DecalGirl, and I haven't found one I really love yet.... But I am considering this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to get a skin for my new Zune, so may as well get them both at the same time.


I like this skin too.


----------



## pidgeon92

Anne said:


> I ordered the Library skin from Decal Girl it may be here tomorrow. You should check out the nook group. A lot of nice people like there are here
> 
> http://www.nookboards.com/forum/index.php


I've been on there for some time.... but I am _incognito_.... 

I like the library skin as well.... I am considering it, but I want to see how Patrizia's lighter version comes out first....


----------



## Anne

pidgeon92 said:


> I've been on there for some time.... but I am _incognito_....
> 
> I like the library skin as well.... I am considering it, but I want to see how Patrizia's lighter version comes out first....


Patrizia's lighter version?


----------



## Prazzie

Anne said:


> Patrizia's lighter version?


She ordered a lighter version of the Decal Girl Library skin. The thread is here.


----------



## royboy1388

I got a Nook =)


----------



## Anne

royboy1388 said:


> I got a Nook =)


How do you like your nook? I love mine.


----------



## loca

pidgeon92 said:


> Yep, exactly the same.... I like it quite a bit, and am currently deciding which skin to go with.... There is one on GelaSkins that I really like, but they haven't prepared any nook skins yet.... I looked at DecalGirl, and I haven't found one I really love yet.... But I am considering this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to get a skin for my new Zune, so may as well get them both at the same time.


Strictly an opinion, I think you can do better.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

loca said:


> Strictly an opinion, I think you can do better.


Do you have a suggestion for Verena?  I actually like the tree quite a bit (like trees) but I'd love to see other suggestions for her! (Always looking for a good skin!)

Betsy
(still wondering why "Nook Chatter" is in Let's Talk Kindle )


----------



## mwb

Betsy the Quilter said:


> (still wondering why "Nook Chatter" is in Let's Talk Kindle )


Strongly agreed. Can we please move the non-kindle stuff to the Not Quite Kindle forum.

I don't have a problem with those discussions being on the forums (and I just ignore some of the more annoying posters who just seem to spend their time here deriding the Kindle and Amazon while praising their different eReader choices), but can we keep it out of the one forum actually dedicated to the Kindle.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

This thread started as a comparison of the Nook and the Kindle. . . .but it has evolved to be primarily about the nook so, yeah. . .I think I'll send it down to Not Quite Kindle. . . . . . . .here we go. . .don't get splinched!


----------



## pidgeon92

loca said:


> Strictly an opinion, I think you can do better.


Excuse me?


----------



## PolkSDA

pidgeon92 said:


> Excuse me?


I think it was a rather terse way of saying "Friends don't let friends use Nooks."


----------



## 911jason

PolkSDA said:


> I think it was a rather terse way of saying "Friends don't let friends use Nooks."


I just read it as a response to Pidgeon's perceived poll about that choice of skin. Guess he thought she could find a better skin.


----------



## HappyGuy

You know ... splinched. As in, not gramblated.


----------



## Jesslyn

When I demo-ed a nook at the store and commented on how much heavier it felt than the Kindle, I got the response that it was only 11.2 vs. Kindles 10.2, turns out it is 12.1. Makes much more sense to me now. I found it hard to believe that i could distinguish a single ounce so clearly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/technology/personaltech/21pogue-email.html


----------

