# Is it really easy to sell smut?



## Guest (Mar 5, 2014)

The novel I wrote has a lot of sex in it, and many of my friends joked that I should write women's erotica. Seeing all the people in indie publishing that make a great living selling 5000 word erotica stories, it makes me think, shit, why spend all this time writing literature when I could sell smut? Not dissing the erotica writers. They're obviously savy business people. 

But I mean, is it really as easy money as it looks considering I can write 1000 words a day of porn quite easily. Tack on a plot and go? How many prolific erotica writers are total failures? Because it seems like you're all killing it!?


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

Hooh, boy. Good luck!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, please be kind to Tony.  He knows not what he's saying.

Tony, we've had some very good writers here, one who posted recently, not do well when they tried their hand (so to speak) at erotica.  It's not just writing sex scenes, or so I understand.   I'm sure some of our members will be by to comment.

Betsy


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

(Yeah, I'd watch my wording if I were you.)

I started off writing shorts, and have learned a thing or two about 'writing smut.' 

a) you can sell sexy short stories far more easily than non-sexy ones. 

but 

b) they need to be good or they have absolutely no staying power (no pun intended, though hey, take it if you want it)

c) authors will do better in romance that incorporates sexy times. Which means developing plot, characters, tension, conflict. Learning to work at it properly.

All that said, those on this board who are successful erotica writers are so because they're good at it, not because it's easy, and not because it's quick money. It's not.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2014)

Oh ok I didn't want to offend anyone haha. Serious respect. But I am new here and I'm really curious if its like a hack or something just because so many people are killing it selling erotica.


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

It's difficult, and one reason you'll read about is that it gets filtered. Books that are visible sell, and erotica tends often to get hidden, which means that they're no longer impulse buys.

Honestly, one of the best-selling books I've done is under another pen name and 18 pages long. It sells for $2.99. But I learned a lot (from this board in particular) about how to make it visible, or else it too would be hidden forever in the depths of the dungeon. And by no means does that one tale earn me a living. But I'll let the others chime in because there are people around here with massive experience who can be helpful.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

I am not sure those in the genre think of themselves as smut or porn peddlers   I have no info to add as I don't write the genre, but your inquiry made me laugh


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

There is a difference between 'erotica' and 'porn.' Neither are inherently easy.  I've written erotica, but I sell better with a romantic plot. Romance is easier for me to write for a number of reasons. It might take some time for you to find what works for you if you want to go down that route.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

Smut merchants!!!

But seriously, I hear that erotica is more about bulk, unless you plan to do the big 300-page and up trilogies like the 50 Shades and such. A lot of erotica writers I know crank these out by the dozen, and rely on selling small copies of a lot of titles. It's not easy by any means, and you really have to keep your ears open to the market. 

Remember the dino porn craze of, what, 2012? Or was that 2013?

But it can be a real grind. (Amirite?)


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## Book Master (May 3, 2013)

I surely wouldn't classify it as smut. How about an "artistic flow of words?" 
Oh, never mind, I thought this was the "Tums" thread....smut spelled backwards!

and I had a roll on the desk somewhere.
BM


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

My mother accused me of writing porn.

Then I started selling books. 

Then she asked me to teach her how to write it.

Needless to say, I'm leaving her to her own devices.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

jackcrows said:


> Smut merchants!!!


that or Merchants of Smut would actually be a pretty cool title


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## phildukephd (Jan 6, 2013)

Tony, to my mind an important indication would be how your own ebook with "lots of sex in it" is selling. If everyone writing erotica made good money, almost everyone would be writing it. But they are not. Of my 26 published ebooks only one is erotica, its title is "GOLDEN SHOWERS Stories By Phyllis" and it has only fairly good sales. Its central character Phyllis is very well drawn, and her urolagnia experiences are interesting, because they are different, adventurous and humorous, as well as having a certain sexual element.

My best selling ebooks are on Sherlock Holmes and Heroin. I was never in law enforcement or a drug addict, but these subjects interest me, and I know a great deal about them.

*IMO to be repeatedly successful in a particular genre, one must have more than average talent and knowledge regarding it, as well as the ability to write successfully in it, with all that entails.* If your sex ebook sells well, write more of them. If not, I suggest trying a different genre.

Good luck! 

Phillip Duke Ph.D.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

While I enjoy writing erotica, and I've been successful at it, 'easy' wouldn't be the word I'd use to describe the work I've put into the last four years. 

Plenty of long hours, and tons of hassles - much more than any other genre - because erotica upsets so many people.


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## KarenNZ (May 2, 2013)

A good place to start would be reading these threads. There is a lot of shared information in them about writing and selling erotica.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,136127.0.html
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,162157.0.html


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## JeffreyKafer (May 22, 2011)

You guys are being disappointingly civil. And here I made popcorn and everything, waiting for the show.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Based on the apparent subject matter of your book, which seems to be about "seduction" of women as a "sport" or a "game," I'm guessing you'd be better suited to writing erotica for men than for women. Some kind of feelings, of character, come through the writing even if it's about sex. I do think lots of women prefer some romance in the storyline, but I can't of course speak for all women. 

ETA: I've read a little bit of erotica in the name of research (enough to discover I don't want to write it--I'll stick to steamy romance, which suits me better). I've read a couple things supposedly written by a woman, aimed at women, that were CLEARLY written by a man. And discovered via author forums--yep, that was a man. So unless you can really get inside a woman's head as well as, um . . . maybe aim for the male market.

And, no, I don't think romance is easy to write, or sell, either, steamy or no.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Some genres look like easier sells than others merely because there are larger audiences attached to them, and those audiences have different buying/reading habits. Erotica and romance APPEAR easy to sell, and in some respects they may be, because of the shopping and reading habits of the fans.  However, readers in every genre aren't dumb.  They can spot a crappy book at a hundred paces.  You won't sell much if you're not writing good stuff that readers really want to buy.  And tapping into those huge potential audiences in genres like erotica or romance -- the ones that appear to be "easier" to sell in -- requires a pretty solid knowledge of the genre -- its conventions and tropes, what its readers usually look for.  It's totally possible to do it, but it's not simple by any means.  It'll require a lot of reading on your part, a lot of observation, and a lot of practice.

There isn't an easy route in writing, I'm afraid.  It's all a lot of hard work.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

It's interesting. I'll say that. Let's just say I did an experiment over the weekend and I awoke this morning to 18 sales since then. All I'll say is that satire and romantic sex combinations do sell.



TheRo said:


> My mother accused me of writing porn.
> 
> Then I started selling books.
> 
> ...


Was this said on purpose?


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)




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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I have read some of the erotica authors in this thread.  They are good but they don't sound easy.  Ok so I think one is fabulous.


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## sunnycoast (Sep 10, 2010)

I tried to write some erotica a year or so ago.

The problem I found was that the book needed to be well-plotted, with memorable characters, good dialogue and a story to tell.

Plus it needed one extra ingredient: it needed to be erotic.

Stuff that. 

I can't even write a book with all the other requirements ... let alone make it erotic! 


My advice: go buy a couple of those 'how to' books some of those lovely ladies of erotica have penned (Stacia Kane wrote one). These books taught me lots of things ... like how a lot of these girls can write people like me under the table!


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

x2far said:


> I tried to write some erotica a year or so ago.
> 
> The problem I found was that the book needed to be well-plotted, with memorable characters, good dialogue and a story to tell.
> 
> ...


THIS.

People see how popular erotic/ erotic romance can be and everyone wants to do it. But just think of it this way: the majority of the consumers are women. So basically our job is to understand the mind of women and what they find desirable and enticing. Your job is to encapsulate the most intimate fantasies women have and describe them so vividly that the readers feel they're living it through the characters.

I'm pretty sure most men would agree that understanding women is NOT the easiest thing in the world to do.

Now if you're writing erotic fiction aimed at men, I can't speak on that at all.


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## sunnycoast (Sep 10, 2010)

minxmalone said:


> Now if you're writing erotic fiction aimed at men, I can't speak on that at all.


It's easy. We like stories of about 10,000 words.

Or the image equivalent ... say, 10 high-res pictures!


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

It is easy.  Anyone can do it.

Really.

What are you waiting for?


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

In my own experience, erotic romance has been relatively easier than other genres, but it's possible I'm just a sexy, sexy gal and it's my True Genre.


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## sunnycoast (Sep 10, 2010)

AndreSanThomas said:


> It is easy. Anyone can do it.
> 
> Really.
> 
> What are you waiting for?


Yeah, just grab the pen by its shaft and place the tip of it against the linen. Not too fast, just ease it down slightly at first and give it a moment until you feel the response. The sensation should overtake you. Then work the nib a little, pushing it down gently into the spread. It'll sink deeper and your story senses will glow until the heat between your fingers slowly builds and the thrust of the climax takes hold.

Go easy on the ink, though. Gets messy.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Funny thing happened to me on the way to the bank...  

I wanted to try my hand at it as an experiment (one of many experiments) and wrote one. Thought it would be fun to try and even sold a copy or two. Then my wife, I am a man lol, gave it a shot. Gave me a truer appreciation for what gender subtlety brings to the writing table. In my case I'm probably not a man who would do well with it, but there are others here that do. Definitely a lot of work from what I can tell. I think I'll settle for editing erotica, leave the writing to the wife. More fun for me and I like the research.  Check out my covers below, guess which one is my cover, enough said, lol ~Chrispy~


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Drew Smith said:


> Have you looked at your avatar?


I suggest not looking directly at my avatar... (which is stock art)


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

Real life Mimi is as smoking as her avatar.  

And my secret pen name doesn't find smut easy to sell


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm barely getting my feet wet (and mainly in erotic romance), but I think it is as difficult as any other genre to sell big in quickly. It's more of a marathon than a sprint, and I think you have to enjoy the genre to do well. Kind of like every other genre.


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## Desmond X. Torres (Mar 16, 2013)

JeffreyKafer said:


> You guys are being disappointingly civil. And here I made popcorn and everything, waiting for the show.


Relax dude, I'm on it. 
He's just a kid though, so it won't be too traumatic.
And he's a Canadian... (I am too, Betsy! Relax! LOL)
I shall read the rest of this thread, then read his sample... and, I guess, we'll see?
(That is if the theads not locked b4 I respond...)


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

*warms up cattle prod*


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> *warms up catttle prod*


 tease. (no really, you have too many "t"s)


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Ok, in all seriousness, if you're serious, you need to join the Erotica Readers and Writers Association.  Surf them up and sign up for their 4 email lists.  You can read what others write, talk craft, post your own stuff for critique, etc.  The group has over 1000 members, readers, writers, publishers, self-pubs, etc. so you can get a lot of good feedback and advice.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

dkgould said:


> tease. (no really, you have too many "t"s)


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> *warms up cattle prod*


Hmm has cattle prod erotica been done already.  j/k. Maybe...


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

_Hmm has cattle prod erotica been done already?_

You don't want to know the answer to that.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Sorry, Desmond, not going to go there.  PM me if you have any questions.

Betsy


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## Kat Lilynette (Oct 12, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> Some genres look like easier sells than others merely because there are larger audiences attached to them, and those audiences have different buying/reading habits. Erotica and romance APPEAR easy to sell, and in some respects they may be, because of the shopping and reading habits of the fans. However, readers in every genre aren't dumb. They can spot a crappy book at a hundred paces. You won't sell much if you're not writing good stuff that readers really want to buy. And tapping into those huge potential audiences in genres like erotica or romance -- the ones that appear to be "easier" to sell in -- requires a pretty solid knowledge of the genre -- its conventions and tropes, what its readers usually look for. It's totally possible to do it, but it's not simple by any means. It'll require a lot of reading on your part, a lot of observation, and a lot of practice.
> 
> There isn't an easy route in writing, I'm afraid. It's all a lot of hard work.


I tend to love every post you make, this is another.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Here's some essential reading:


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Sorry, Tony. There aren't any easy roads in this writing business. You still have to do the work:  learn your craft, learn your market, and practice, practice, practice.

That said, if you really want to write erotica, there's no reason you can't give it a shot. Just go in with your eyes open and your expectations reasonable.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> there's no reason you can't give it a shot. Just go in with your eyes open


That's good advice.

(No blindfolds in the first series.)


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Short erotica isn't what it used to be. A few years ago, to be honest, it was pretty easy, but the market was hit by the get rich quick online marketing patrol and it's flooded with crap--most of it ghostwritten for them by people on fiverr and craigslist. When that stopped selling because it was crap, they started to bundle 50000 stories into a single .99 bundle and went on to Christian Romance. (Yes, really.) 

Then the various stores started to crack down on it because there was a severe turn towards the lurid in both title and cover. That led to many of the more lucrative genres being banned or adult filtered. 

You can make money on it, but it's a long game that's going to require a lot more titles than it used to because you're going to have to rise above the junk out there. Most people I know are moving into erotic romance or straight up romance with at least novella size pieces.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2014)

I wouldn't call it easy.

I got started with Bliss Kiss in the fall of 2011 and stuck to shorts and put them in collections and I did okay for a while, considering that I write lesbian erotica and, well, most straight women aren't that into it... 

But you write what you enjoy, so that's what I did.

I got about 10 books out (8 shorts, 2 collections) in about five months, and suddenly I just hit a wall. Mostly because I felt uncreative and unsatisfied because the stories started feeling too repetitive to me. I was craving something with more meat on it... but I burned out so bad, I didn't publish another word for almost a year, and then it was only to write one more short and do a third collection.

Then, late last summer, I did my first fresh-feeling new short in quite a while, Sleepless Over.

Then, a couple months ago, I decided to do more of a "lesbian literature" sort of thing that wasn't really erotica but had a lesbian subplot, and was more of a suspense tale. I consider it "New Adult - Suspense" to be honest because, for plot reasons and ethics, it wasn't the type of tale where you wanted a lot of erotic content added in. I included one makeout scene, very brief and un-detailed, and the rest was suspense and the occasional laugh. I think Kari Okay is a very fun read... but so far I don't have many readers along for the ride.

That tale hasn't seen a lot of my erotica readers follow me.

However, when I was at the top of my game, before I burned out, I was close to making a modest but nice $200/mo off my 10 initial titles. I now have 13 erotica titles and my first non-erotica novel, and I probably still make $30-$50 a month because I'm publishing 2-3 times a year again.

I have yet to see whether my non-erotica will take off. But I may end up mixing the formulas in the future, having both a full plot AND some hotness to some scenes.

But has it been easy? No.

For example, I just can't write a genre that doesn't turn me on, personally, so I missed out on the whole poor secretary/billionaire boyfriend 50 Shade-clone trend, because BDSM and M/F isn't my thing.

But I know this...

My F/F erotica sold pretty good at one point, and it gave me a small presence. I figure if I can do some SF or crime fiction stuff and amp up the heat, I might do pretty well again.

But I also know I can't just write stories that only deal with intimate encounters exclusively. Because I get bored. I mean... there's a real skill to making bedroom stuff interesting, and a limited number of ways to describe the mechanics... even though that's what seems to sell best.

The more satisfying stuff is to have well-developed characters, which I've always attempted and which therefore probably kept me out of the elite-sellers, since most readers just seem to want the names to change and the encounters to be more of the same.

In fact, when I developed my character Jaz, who was new to the whole idea of F/F encounters, I included a moment of self-doubt before she went with the moment, and a reader ripped me for it because she thought it was "an offense to my orientation." Which certainly wasn't the intent, I tend to think the first time you're intimate with someone, most people have a moment of doubt before they decide they're ready and get caught up in the passion of the moment.

But it didn't "review well" with some of the more dedicated readers. And the comment never slowed my sales. (My year-long burnout did that to me.)

So I decided "you can't please every reader" and just kept on trucking.

My move completely out of erotica into New Adult-Suspense with Kari Okay was probably a move too far for some of my readers, even though it was right for that story. And despite the fact that there's still a similar style of main character (a college girl on the edge of figuring out she's not straight).

But the sales are slim, so I'll need to bring the heat level up in the future.

Still, I've seen some writers on here who expressed wishes for "F/F lit with more depth and less gratuitous intimacy" and yet providing a story like that has actually seen me release my least-successful book to date... though it's still a bit early, I suppose.

Maybe my crime fiction series or SF time-travel stuff with a higher heat factor will bring those readers around.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to do a more purely erotic short now and again, too... but I really want to avoid another burnout so there's only so much I can write in a given period of time without that risk.


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## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

Try this, TonyD:

Spend the next month writing four porn shorts.

Price them individually and as a boxed set.

Place them with Kindle, All Romance, google, and your aggregator of choice (Smash or D2D).

Mr. Market will tell you whether to continue or not.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

TonyD said:


> How many prolific erotica writers are total failures? Because it seems like you're all killing it!?


I sell about $2 worth of pure erotica on a good month. It's just like any other genre; novels sell better than shorts, publish frequently, perma-free is nice, series is king.

The only other thing is that erotica tends to have a lower barrier to entry regarding editing, is (in my mind) easier to cover for, and tends to be simpler plot-wise; it has to its disadvantage is that the more kinky your stuff is the more likely it is to find a dedicated audience, and most writers aren't comfortable with that level of smut. Plus there's a stupid social stigma against it (that's slowly, fortunately, going away).

In all other ways it's largely the same.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

I would never call writing smut, easy. I write erotic romance, in which there is a good storyline with graphic sex scenes, and the biggest challenge is writing sex scenes that don't sound redundant. If one isn't careful sex between two characters can come off sounding very mechanical. I find myself constantly trying to top the previous sex scene I wrote and unless one gets really creative, it isn't easy. It's downright difficult.  No lie...


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

One advantage of writing steamy rather than erotic romance is that you don't need as many sex scenes, and you don't always have to be raising the bar or thinking up some "new" thing that you didn't do in a past book. The focus can be more on the emotions. I think my sexiest stuff is probably the long slow burn before they have sex. Looking at somebody, that first touch of the hand, his hand on your lower back going into a restaurant...the first kiss. You have them dying for it by the time they do it, and hopefully the reader too. Then describing how good it feels, and that's payoff even if that couple isn't doing anything in the least out of the ordinary. 

But like I said, that's steam that appeals to (some) women. My husband and male beta reader say it works better for them than straight-up erotica too, because they're "in" the scene and invested. Of course, my husband kinda has to say that. 

But actual sex scenes? I enjoy writing them and people say I am good at them, but they are some of the most labor-intensive scenes. I rework and edit them over and over to get every word just right. Much more work than writing dialogue, for example. Like an action scene, every word has to be perfect, to move the scene forward, to elicit a little more response. It's definitely not easy or quick, for me.


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## Griffin Hayes (Sep 20, 2011)

I agree that easy isn't the right word. It does seem strange to me that readers balk at spending .99 cents on a 70 page novella, but are perfectly willing to drop $2.99 on 20 pages of sex/romance/erotica. Is it guilt? Either way, I can understand why the OP is asking himself, "why should I spend months writing a three hundred page thriller when I can write 20 pages of erotica and sell it for the same $?"


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Griffin Hayes said:


> I agree that easy isn't the right word. It does seem strange to me that readers balk at spending .99 cents on a 70 page novella, but are perfectly willing to drop $2.99 on 20 pages of sex/romance/erotica. Is it guilt? Either way, I can understand why the OP is asking himself, "why should I spend months writing a three hundred page thriller when I can write 20 pages of erotica and sell it for the same $?"


Well regular novels and erotica have 2 different purposes. Rather like R movies and XXX movies serve 2 different functions.


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## Weirdling (Jun 25, 2011)

Although I don't write (or read) erotica, I imagine the reason why it seems easy is because it's a large market with voracious readers.  Some people also think the romance genre is easy for similar reasons.  I don't think any genre is "easy to write" or "easy to sell."  But if you have a talent at writing erotic scenes, then look into the genre and see if you want to learn how to write in it.

Jodi


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> One advantage of writing steamy rather than erotic romance is that you don't need as many sex scenes, and you don't always have to be raising the bar or thinking up some "new" thing that you didn't do in a past book. The focus can be more on the emotions. I think my sexiest stuff is probably the long slow burn before they have sex. Looking at somebody, that first touch of the hand, his hand on your lower back going into a restaurant...the first kiss. You have them dying for it by the time they do it, and hopefully the reader too. Then describing how good it feels, and that's payoff even if that couple isn't doing anything in the least out of the ordinary.
> .


Rosalind, ^this^ would be a great blog post. I love reading your posts and finding hidden helpful advice...even when you don't realize you're giving it. This just helped me on my romantic suspense WIP because I abhor the sexual scenes and felt something was missing. I think I just found out what it was. Thanks!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

L.L. Akers said:


> Rosalind, ^this^ would be a great blog post. I love reading your posts and finding hidden helpful advice...even when you don't realize you're giving it. This just helped me on my romantic suspense WIP because I abhor the sexual scenes and felt something was missing. I think I just found out what it was. Thanks!


Really? I always feel ridiculous writing any kind of "craft" thing, since everything sort of happens at the subconscious level. It's hard for me to articulate until afterwards what I "did." (And sometimes requires the help of reviewers, positive or negative.)


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Well regular novels and erotica have 2 different purposes. Rather like R movies and XXX movies serve 2 different functions.


I would really disagree with that. Even with short erotica, there's a mental and emotional impact in the written word that isn't there in porn flix.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

KL_Phelps said:


> I am not sure those in the genre think of themselves as smut or porn peddlers  I have no info to add as I don't write the genre, but your inquiry made me laugh


Oh, I completely consider myself a porn peddler (I refer to my series as "dragon porn", after all). Though when I got the idea to write them I intended there to be a different ratio of plotorn than I ended up with (I intended there to be more porn than there is). They're still mostly sex, but I can't help but add backstory and character development - like this character's following her dead father's dream, and this character's working to get past his grief over losing a brother, etc. Unfortunately I think I shot myself in the foot on that count because I added just a small enough hint of character development for my readers to complain that they wanted more, so now the stories keep getting longer to make up for it.

I also write spicy romance novels with more buildup to the sex. Both are rewarding but the stuff with the buildup and detailed plot takes longer to write. That's not to say erotica is easy, but short stories are definitely quicker, and I love writing sex scenes so they are somewhat easy for me, or at least rewarding.

My goal with the porn series is to write a crapload of shorts this year in between my romance novels. The more you have out there, the more visible you will be - at least that seems to be the case.


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## jimbro (Jan 10, 2014)

minxmalone said:


> I'm pretty sure most men would agree that understanding women is NOT the easiest thing in the world to do.


Agree. However, I would argue that it_ isn't _necessary to understand women (or any other group), but only sufficient to understand the _image _that the target group has of itself. E.g., if a group believes itself to be especially intuitive, then play up the intuitive nature of your characters, etc... Whether or not members of that particular group have any intuition at all is irrelevant. This obviously applies to any target demographic. Know your audience, Know what your audience thinks of itself.


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## J. R. Blaisy (Feb 4, 2014)

I don't know how hard it is to sell it. It's supposed to be one of the hardest things to write, and from the samples I've been reading it clearly is. Pretty hard to read too, after a while.

One was definitely readable and sexy when it was about character and feelings and the developing situation. Then the serious action started and it was the usual mix of cliche, gynaecology, coy slang and purple prose. I'm not saying I could do better. My sex scenes (I mean in my book) end with dot-dot-dot (not literally) at just the point when the voracious consumers of this material start getting glassy-eyed and intent. I'm not knocking good porn (though personally I say show, don't tell) - but so far all the erotica I've sampled _is_ porn. It just is. An erotic scene in a book or film is different.

So, can anyone point me towards the best of the genre to make me change my mind...?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

J.R.Blaisy said:


> I don't know how hard it is to sell it. It's supposed to be one of the hardest things to write, and from the samples I've been reading it clearly is. Pretty hard to read too, after a while.
> 
> One was definitely readable and sexy when it was about character and feelings and the developing situation. Then the serious action started and it was the usual mix of cliche, gynaecology, coy slang and purple prose. I'm not saying I could do better. My sex scenes (I mean in my book) end with dot-dot-dot (not literally) at just the point when the voracious consumers of this material start getting glassy-eyed and intent. I'm not knocking good porn (though personally I say show, don't tell) - but so far all the erotica I've sampled _is_ porn. It just is. An erotic scene in a book or film is different.
> 
> So, can anyone point me towards the best of the genre to make me change my mind...?


I need a bit more info please. What are your kink preferences? This genre is too big to say SWolf is great or Cleo, or Alexia Stark or Lacey Harper or Lee Moore or Andrew Ashling or Gavin L Fletcher or Annette G or Emily Cantore or Jean-Luc Cheri. I know I missed a dozen of you. I find all of these authors very good. Now which one I would recommend to you would depend on how you like your kink. Everyone one of them is different.


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## J. R. Blaisy (Feb 4, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> I need a bit more info please. What are your kink preferences? This genre is too big to say SWolf is great or Cleo, or Alexia Stark or Lacey Harper or Lee Moore or Andrew Ashling or Gavin L Fletcher or Annette G or Emily Cantore or Jean-Luc Cheri. I know I missed a dozen of you. I find all of these authors very good. Now which one I would recommend to you would depend on how you like your kink. Everyone one of them is different.


But that's a revealing answer, isn't it? Consumers of porn know where they want to go, readers of stories want to be taken somewhere new.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

J.R.Blaisy said:


> But that's a revealing answer, isn't it? Consumers of porn know where they want to go, readers of stories want to be taken somewhere new.


I was actually being quite serious. I would also like your definitions of erotica and porn.
Let me rephrase: Do you prefer m/m, m/f, f/f, m/f/m, m/f/f, BDSM or vanilla, vampires or dinosaurs, Incest or no, pseudo-incest, or whatever your preferred kink is? 
This is a help in determining who to read.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

J.R.Blaisy said:


> But that's a revealing answer, isn't it? Consumers of porn know where they want to go, readers of stories want to be taken somewhere new.


I think the only thing the answer 'reveals' is that there are subgenres in erotica like everything else. If you wanted to know if you'd like mysteries and the question was 'do you like cozy mysteries, noir, or thrillers?' would you consider that a revealing answer? Yes, people read smut (erotica, choose the label you prefer) to meet specific desires but that doesn't necessarily mean the books are all the same, any more than in any other genre of fiction.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

TonyD said:


> The novel I wrote has a lot of sex in it, and many of my friends joked that I should write women's erotica. Seeing all the people in indie publishing that make a great living selling 5000 word erotica stories, it makes me think, [crap], why spend all this time writing literature when I could sell smut? Not dissing the erotica writers. They're obviously savy business people.
> 
> But I mean, is it really as easy money as it looks considering I can write 1000 words a day of porn quite easily. Tack on a plot and go? How many prolific erotica writers are total failures? Because it seems like you're all killing it!?


I forgot romance isn't literature. Maybe I should go write some literary sludge. I can crank that stuff out like crazy, booyeeee!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh I got asked if I gave a revealing answer when I started naming erotic authors.  The only thing that I revealed was I have sampled several erotic authors.  Most of them were quite tasty.
Sorry yall.  I am having a hard time in this thread.

I probably also revealed that I am not picky about my erotica. But I know most people are.    Many, many sub-genres in erotica.  Now who was it that wrote the good bigfoot erotica?  Her name is eluding me at the moment.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh I got asked if I gave a revealing answer when I started naming erotic authors. The only thing that I revealed was I have sampled several erotic authors. Most of them were quite tasty.
> Sorry yall. I am having a hard time in this thread.
> 
> I probably also revealed that I am not picky about my erotica. But I know most people are. Many, many sub-genres in erotica. Now who was it that wrote the good bigfoot erotica? Her name is eluding me at the moment.


Oooh yeah, loved me sum of that Bigfoot story. Off to browse my Kindle Cloud now...


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Now who was it that wrote the good bigfoot erotica? Her name is eluding me at the moment.


Our own Virginia Wade. Great author and a nice person too.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

swolf said:


> Our own Virginia Wade. Great author and a nice person too.


Thanks Swolf. Long as we are in the smut thread. Your ''Native Lust" was great too. Remind me I need to review it.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Rosalind James said:


> Really? I always feel ridiculous writing any kind of "craft" thing, since everything sort of happens at the subconscious level. It's hard for me to articulate until afterwards what I "did." (And sometimes requires the help of reviewers, positive or negative.)




One of my favorite quilt artists, when asked why she made an artistic choice in a piece (color, line, placement) will always give an answer. And finish with a big grin and "I just made that up." I think that's so true of the best kind of work--it's not over-thought.

Betsy


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> One of my favorite quilt artists, when asked why she made an artistic choice in a piece (color, line, placement) will always give an answer. And finish with a big grin and "I just made that up." I think that's so true of the best kind of work--it's not over-thought.
> 
> Betsy


I think the best art has a little of both! The planned and carefully crafted with those moments of 'hey, this might work!'


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## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

.


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## Virginia Wade (Sep 4, 2011)

swolf said:


> Our own Virginia Wade. Great author and a nice person too.


Aw...thanks. 

Funny thing is, I am not writing erotica anymore. That last round of filtering by Amazon hit over 60% of my books. It killed my sales. I moved on to another pen name, because I was so tired of the BS.

It's not "easy" to make a living in this genre. The heyday was 2011, 2012, and some of 2013. The trend is for longer, almost novel length stories that must have a big marketing push to even get seen.

Good luck in your endeavors.


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## Virginia Wade (Sep 4, 2011)

We changed titles and descriptions, etc., to get the books unfiltered, but the dashboard is constantly being scrutinized. Things that went through fine before get re-filtered. Then we have to change things again to satisfy whichever person is looking at them. It's just irritating. It's so much easier to write something else. Saves me a lot of headache.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Sorry yall. I am having a hard time in this thread.


Ahh, where is my Michael Scott TWSS YouTube clip when I need it? 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## J. R. Blaisy (Feb 4, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh I got asked if I gave a revealing answer when I started naming erotic authors. The only thing that I revealed was I have sampled several erotic authors. Most of them were quite tasty.
> Sorry yall. I am having a hard time in this thread.


Sorry for the delay in responding, cin. I certainly didn't mean that the fact you knew the names said anything about you. I meant that the fact you asked me for my kink suggests that erotica readers might be highly focused consumers, probably reading one-handed. People in the market for a story, even a cosy thriller or some other subgenre, might be more open to surprises. But hey, I haven't researched this.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> I need a bit more info please. What are your kink preferences? This genre is too big to say SWolf is great or Cleo, or Alexia Stark or Lacey Harper or Lee Moore or Andrew Ashling or Gavin L Fletcher or Annette G or Emily Cantore or Jean-Luc Cheri. I know I missed a dozen of you. I find all of these authors very good. Now which one I would recommend to you would depend on how you like your kink. Everyone one of them is different.


Thank you Cinisa 

Writing erotica/erotic romance can be tough. I really have to be in a certain frame of mind to write sex scenes and all the time you are thinking, is it too similar to the last one you wrote? I look at short stories and novels/novellas in what sort of restaurant you might want. Sometimes you might want fast food and other times you want a 3 course meal 

I read mostly m/m erotica but I have read m/f, threesomes and more, it just depends on what you fancy at the time.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

zoe tate said:


> That's good advice.
> 
> (No blindfolds in the first series.)


  Would that fall into the "what's your kink?" thing Cin posted?


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## Hildred (Sep 9, 2012)

My 6k erotica shorts sell more than my 75k~ erom novels by about 2:1. But I figure that's because there is a bigger gender overlap in F/F erotica than F/F romance, which seems to be mostly female readers and the occasional straight male. 

It's definitely not easy though. My expenses are low enough that I can do this full time, so I have to put out 4-5 stories a month for my pen name to keep it visible and to help sales steadily grow. (I'm definitely in marathon not sprint territory.) This is also while writing full length novels every other month. I'm a very prolific writer and sex scenes are "my jam" as my editor puts it, so it's not bad.

But what does get to you after a while is the monotony of it. If you're writing formulaic erotica (they meet, they flirt, they bang - insert a couple positions here - the end) you start to feel the repetition quickly. I write in multiple soft kinks (light BDSM, food, feet, etc) and I still feel the monotony. You start doing mental gymnastics trying to come up with different ways to describe basic sex acts. I now have to approach my erotica writing as an actual job. I still put out a quality product (imo) that my readers enjoy, which is ultimately what matters, but the way I tackle it has drastically changed over this past year. 90% of the time I have to schedule blocks of time to focus on the erotica. Otherwise my mind will wander to the eroms which are more mentally stimulating with what their PLOTS and their EMOTIONS egads~ or other projects I am going to work on in the future. If I waited to be in the mood to write erotica, I would rarely write it. To keep myself (and a lot of my readers who auto-buy me) from going crazy, I have to really mix up the relationship dynamics so I don't feel like I'm writing the same people over and over just with different names and hairstyles and sometimes skin tones. I was pleasantly surprised recently when I released two new serials, one focusing on a femme couple and another on a butch couple, and the butch couple WAY outside the femmes. I was expecting the other way around because butch/butch is definitely not the most popular pairing type in F/F. (But is my personal favorite so nyeah nyeah.)

So, to sum it up, writing erotica may be easy to some (I mean, I find both romance and fantasy easy to write, but don't ever ask me to write a thriller or mystery) but it can be hard to stick with it over the long term if you focus a lot on quantity. Which is really the only way these days to make a decent living off it. The ol' indie adage about the magical 30 titles doesn't hold up anymore. I have over sixty and know i need more and more.


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## Cleo (Jan 11, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> I need a bit more info please. What are your kink preferences? This genre is too big to say SWolf is great or Cleo, or Alexia Stark or Lacey Harper or Lee Moore or Andrew Ashling or Gavin L Fletcher or Annette G or Emily Cantore or Jean-Luc Cheri. I know I missed a dozen of you. I find all of these authors very good. Now which one I would recommend to you would depend on how you like your kink. Everyone one of them is different.


OMG Thank you! This totally made my day.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

I think writing smut for women should be totally easy for a "dating coach"/pua because they all know exactly what women want.  I would be precisely as likely to enjoy erotica by a pua as I am to be convinced by one in a bar.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> I need a bit more info please. What are your kink preferences? This genre is too big to say SWolf is great or Cleo, or Alexia Stark or Lacey Harper or Lee Moore or Andrew Ashling or Gavin L Fletcher or Annette G or Emily Cantore or Jean-Luc Cheri. I know I missed a dozen of you. I find all of these authors very good. Now which one I would recommend to you would depend on how you like your kink. Everyone one of them is different.


Yes, thank you, Cin.

Two times.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I love threads like this.  I think.  I find new authors.  Another good one is Jamie Klaire.    Just thought I should update.  Now seriously if anyone likes a certain kink let me know.  I can find you authors.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

jackcrows said:


> But it can be a real grind.


That should be a reference to gargoyle erotica!


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## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Diana & Lacey said:


> How about billionaire bondage dinosaur shifter tentacle monster PI?!  Seriously though, I love finding out about new authors. I buy all my ebooks almost exclusively from kboards authors now. I love checking out people's sig lines.


Oh that one is easy. Just grab books from most I mentioned and read one page of one, then a page of another, and so on and so forth. Repeat until you are done with the books.
I check out sig lines all the time. The word free helps too. Let's me sample to see who tastes good.


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