# Slow sales? Also-boughts may be behind it



## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I know I had mentioned this last year. In the past, also-boughts showed up for me pretty quickly. (Those are the books that show up as recommendations on your book's Amazon page, underneath your book. "People who bought this book also bought...) It's basically Amazon's recommendation engine, and it makes a HUGE difference in sales for most writers that I know.

Usually they show up a few days after you put your book on sale, as long as you have enough sales to trigger it. My books have hundreds of sales.

Now,when I look at my most recent book, which was published July 15, it has also boughts on its page - but none of those books point back at my book! Not a single one! I know it's not completely reciprocal, but as far as I can tell, NO books are pointing back at mine. My older books have also boughts - this one does not.

I checked on a site called Yasiv.com, which shows what books are pointing back at yours - none. This is on a book that ranked as high as 106 on its first day.

I am on another forum where a lot of people are having this issue - as far as I can tell, none of our authors who have published in the last ten days (indie authors) have also boughts.

Here's another example -

http://www.amazon.com/Shade-Vampire-Break-Day-ebook/dp/B00LLNO2AO/ref=sr_1_1_ha?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1406033086&sr=1-1&keywords=a+shade+of+vampire+7

As far as I can tell, she published July tenth, and NO BOOKS seem to be pointing back to her book yet!

And this is especially hard to spot, because you go to your book page and you're like "oh, my also boughts are there!" But for newer books on Kindle, that are not pre-order - they all seem to be one way.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I think you may be right. 

We published _Ever Lost_ on June 23, and it has Also-Boughts pointing at it. The same goes for _Hook, Tagline, and Sinker_, which was published July 1.

We published _When You Make It Home_ on July 12, and it doesn't have any pointing at it, even though it was a strong release.

I hope the mighty 'Zon gets this corrected soon!


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Is it just me or are the thumbnail images in the Also Bought list very small now?


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I published three shorts in the past month. One has also-vieweds, the other two have neither also-vieweds nor boughts.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

The problem is - it's hard enough communicating with Amazon customer service on regular stuff, but this is a really hard glitch to explain to anyone who isn't an author on Amazon.  I don't know how to explain it to anyone there - does anyone have any suggestions?


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm pretty sure ELHawk started a thread about this exact same problem the other day. I can't recall if there were any answers in that thread, but you might check there. It seems like it's a pretty widespread problem. I don't have any also-boughts on my new release either, but I figured that's just because it's not selling well.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I did a search for also boughts on here and couldn't find any newer threads - could anyone point me to it?

This is so frustrating.  It really, really hurts sales, costs me a lot of money, and I don't know how to fix it.  The difference between having also boughts and not having them is enormous, and incredibly obvious, and there is no one that I know of that I can talk to at Amazon about it.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Holy.  Crap.  This is bad, bad, bad, bad.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Here's the thread:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190138


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

If I read the thread correctly, it seems sales have to bit 100 before the alsobots kick in... sigh. Gonna take my new release forever


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Quiss said:


> Is it just me or are the thumbnail images in the Also Bought list very small now?


I thought that was something I did to my computer window for the last few days!
Yes! They're all about 25% smaller...If it stays like this, it might affect my final cover decisions. 
I'm seeing 12 pages of alsobots for the OP's link ?


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## Molly Tomorrow (Jul 22, 2014)

At this point the question isn't so much "hands up who has been effected by this" so much as "has *anyone* published a book through KDP after July 10th that has incoming also-boughts? Anyone?"



theaatkinson said:


> If I read the thread correctly, it seems sales have to bit 100 before the alsobots kick in... sigh.


This is not true.


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## Molly Tomorrow (Jul 22, 2014)

Don't want to step on anyones toes but is there a chance we could put the thrilling but yet completely unrelated discussion about the size of also-boughts to another thread? It's obviously nothing to do with the very specific issue which the OP has spelled out in some detail that is currently affecting quite possibly thousands of your fellow authors and I don't really understand why someone posted it in response to begin with!



Charmaine said:


> I'm seeing 12 pages of alsobots for the OP's link ?


The post is about _incoming_ also-boughts.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Charmaine - the problem is, nobody's books seem to be pointing back at hers.

So if you go through and click on the books in her also-boughts...some of them, if not most of them, should be pointing at HER book.  Click on the books in her list - "A Shade of Vampire 7" should be in there, but it's not.

I know it is not completely reciprocal - for instance, if someone buys my book, and Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone, odds are pretty good that my book will not appear on Harry Potter as an also-bought. For the most part, the books on your also bought list will reflect books in similar rank, from what I've heard.  And with all my old books - the links actually are pretty reciprocal.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

The quickest way to check is to go to the site the OP mentioned: http://www.yasiv.com/

Make sure to choose Kindle, then enter your title.

You should have arrows pointing *TO *your book, as well as away from it.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

I have (a few) incoming Also-Boughts on the UK site, but none on .Com for any of my books, as far as I'm aware.

In the UK, they also point to each other, as well as some other winter/ski books.

My sales in general are low, but I've had over 1000 downloads of book 1 (which has been on sale since December) on .Com and that's still not been enough to trigger incoming ABs 

Even books on the last page of _my_ ABs which have small numbers of reviews and only 15 or 16 pages of ABs (popular books seem to have 20) don't feature mine in their ABs when I check manually.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Oh, I should mention - the UK store ABs seem to be working fine. Also, if you have a book available for pre-order, those seem to have also-boughts working.


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## geekgrrl (Oct 14, 2013)

My recent erom was published In May. I still have no incoming alsoboughts.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

Kindle unlimited has pretty much ruined this platform for me.

My sales are off 80%. I'll check my also boughts.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I've been wondering about this. My short story collection has been out for over 2 years, but still has no inbound "Also Bought" links on the .com site. I have a few on the UK site, which is where that book has picked up most of its sales. But then being a UK writer, I tend to do most of my promotion in the UK. Which came first?

Ah well, I'm extremely used to selling no books, but this new explanation is certainly an intriguing one.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Bluehorseshoe - one of my eternal frustrations with Amazon is it's often really hard to tell what is affecting sales. For instance, when I first started, I didn't know about also boughts, so for the first few days my books were out, I would see sales drop, and then I would change the blurb or the cover - and then sales would go back up.

And I would think - that new blurb did it!

But now I realize it was probably because also boughts had just kicked in.

Or, for that matter, after 30 days Amazon seems to push down visibility of a book so that new books can be shown to customers.  If you don't know that, then the sudden drop in sales after 30 days can seem really weird and random.

My point is - it might be Kindle Unlimited that is hurting your sales, or it could be that you thought you have also boughts pointing at your books but you don't. Either way, I hope your sales come back up!

As for me, sales started dying in March after seven incredible months in a row, but that's another story entirely. Also boughts were working back then, so I can't blame that.  I don't know what to blame.


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## btsc99 (Oct 12, 2012)

MolPri said:


> Don't want to step on anyones toes but is there a chance we could put the thrilling but yet completely unrelated discussion about the size of also-boughts to another thread? It's obviously nothing to do with the very specific issue which the OP has spelled out in some detail that is currently affecting quite possibly thousands of your fellow authors and I don't really understand why someone posted it in response to begin with!


Would posting a response to this post be out of the question? Just asking.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

It looks very laggy.  Nothing is pointing TO my last release on Tuesday.  Not even the previous book in the series.  Major suckage.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

By the way I sent a message to Betsy and Ann suggesting the two threads be merged. I mean, i am a total attention ho, but I still don't want to take up two entire threads with this! Well, partly I do - I want all business to stop, the world to stop turning on its axis, and nations to shut down, until this problem is fixed!!! But, that's just me being a drama queen. A drama queen who wants her also boughts back.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Good news is that A Break of Day now has plenty of stuff pointing to it.  So it appears to be laggy, not broken.

And ElHawk was talking about the OPPOSITE issue--alsoboughts FROM a new title.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

I just checked some books for incoming alsobots, published as late as July, and they were there.
Some are and some aren't. It seems like it may be a glitch with some books.
At first, I thought perhaps it had something to do with Select, but that's not the case either.
Maybe republishing would help. It works to connect paperback and ebooks faster.
Republishing seems to reboot them.
(Republishing as in, open Edit details, then press save while not changing anything. )

Also he glitch might just be plain ol' lagging.
But if it's been awhile, then I'd reboot.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

From what I've been hearing, this is a widespread issue with recent new releases.  Plenty of outgoing also-boughts, but no incoming. My knickers would be in a twist about this if I had a new release right now.


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## Carina Wilder (Nov 12, 2013)

Gah, another reason to be pleased that I've been terribly slow to get my latest out. My last book was published June 23rd and is fine for alsobots pointing both ways.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Mine has been out a year. Re-submitted in January 2014. Has moved 58,000 copies since then (BookBub), and my incoming also Boughts are GONE too! I have dropped rank too. I've got hundreds of outgoing...and ONE incoming (which is my second book in the series).


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I just sent off a polite message to support.  It's a very challenging issue to explain. We'll see what happens.

If other people are seeing the same problem, the more people who contact them, the better chance we have of them taking it seriously.  I always recommend being polite and respectful, no matter how frustrated we may be. 

I am trying really hard not to sound like I'm whining that my books aren't selling as much as I think they should.

Oh well. off to get some writing done.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

My knickers are pretty twisted.  I'm getting sell-through but not the jump I'd been getting.  I was thinking it was me.  Maybe I'd lost my readers.  Apparently not.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

georgette said:


> Oh, I should mention - the UK store ABs seem to be working fine. Also, if you have a book available for pre-order, those seem to have also-boughts working.


...Which is why my UK sales are doing dandy. Geez.


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## Lehane (Apr 7, 2014)

VMた said:


> It looks very laggy. Nothing is pointing TO my last release on Tuesday. *Not even the previous book in the series.* Major suckage.


Uck, that just seems like such a simple thing that shout be more automatic than your average also-boughts. That totally blows.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Charmaine said:


> Everyone untwist thy knickers!
> But just to make sure everyone knows, I was responding to Molpri's rude and condescending post. Not the issue at hand...
> I quoted it in my response.


I was just agreeing upthread with TheRo.


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## ScottS (Jul 3, 2012)

I questioned KDP support as the how the feature works on their end. Not really an answer, but here it is:

_Hello,

The Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought feature automatically determines what titles are displayed based on a careful evaluation of our customers' shopping patterns.

Since this feature is updated based on customer shopping habits and change frequently to reflect current buying patterns, I'm not able to manually adjust the titles shown in this feature.

While I wasn't able to make the changes you requested, I hope this information helps to better explain the way the feature works on our website.

Thanks for using Amazon KDP._

Keep in mind I did not ask for any changes, just an explanation. So it works off an ever-evolving "buying pattern", whatever that means.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Yeah, I've gotten that response in the past. Unfortunately, not helpful, not replying to the question that I had asked, and doesn't acknowledge that there is a glitch. \


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

Also-boughts is Amazon's Bookbub. It will be changed soon to only show similar books in the Kindle Unlimited library. Amazon has made a strategic decision and they are betting their future on it. They are no longer interested in sales, but in subscriptions and borrows and therefore the Kindle Unlimited library is their number one concern. 

iTunes disrupted music stores and radio. Spotify, if you look at the latest numbers is disrupting iTunes. Amazon does not want to wait for Scribd to disrupt it. Amazon is disrupting itself by introducing the subscription model. When you go from a sales model to a subscription model, you no longer have use for an also-boughts function.

The good thing for us indies is that the subscription model will bring in the 170 million library users, who are now not able to read our books as indie books are not to be found in libraries.

The reason they pay so much for big name writers at the moment is this: they want to point their fans to also-reads (formerly known as also-boughts) written by indies in the Kindle Unlimited library.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I got the same response from Support each of the three times I pointed out that my book page had no also boughts on it.  Hard to believe they can't go into the system and get it to show the existing also boughts. They built the system after all.

Anyway, my also boughts showed up... eventually.


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## ScottS (Jul 3, 2012)

drno said:


> Also-boughts is Amazon's Bookbub. It will be changed soon to only show similar books in the Kindle Unlimited library. Amazon has made a strategic decision and they are betting their future on it. They are no longer interested in sales, but in subscriptions and borrows and therefore the Kindle Unlimited library is their number one concern.
> 
> iTunes disrupted music stores and radio. Spotify, if you look at the latest numbers is disrupting iTunes. Amazon does not want to wait for Scribd to disrupt it. Amazon is disrupting itself by introducing the subscription model. When you go from a sales model to a subscription model, you no longer have use for an also-boughts function.
> 
> ...


This is interesting. I put my three books in KU yesterday. I get very little in sales from all other venues, so it's not a huge change for me. I'm eager to see what happens if and/or when those changes you mention take place. I'm all for getting in the game before all the rules are spelled out. I just hope that Amazon works this in a way so that indies, as they have stated, "gain more exposure", and aren't pushed further back in the marketing rotations in their various tools.


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## Teddy Jacobs (Jan 15, 2012)

Do any permafree books have also boughts pointing at them? I think Amazon has made it so they are not discoverable.

Teddy


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## CristinaRayne (Apr 17, 2014)

I always take Yasiv with a grain of salt. While a lot of the books aren't pointing back to mine, if I look on their Amazon pages, my book is often listed on their also-boughts. This is on a book that was published on July 6.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I have heard that about Yasiv from other people. So far, from what I have personally checked out, their reports were accurate, but that's just me.

However - there's no doubt that the Also boughts are very slow in appearing for our books! 

Perma free- good question, I don't know the answer to that.


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## JJTaylor (Jul 19, 2014)

It's a wide-spread issue. No book published last week seems to have also-boughts pointing towards it, unless it was on pre-order. Not even Deborah Bladon's latest release, Vain has also-bought pointing towards the book. I have feeling the roll-out of KU messed up the also bought algorithm big time.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Wow. Those are some huge books that are lacking Also boughts.

Deborah Bladen, Bella Forrest...

I wonder if they could get through to anyone at Amazon about the problem?


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## HarperLin (Jul 10, 2014)

Teddy Jacobs said:


> Do any permafree books have also boughts pointing at them? I think Amazon has made it so they are not discoverable.
> 
> Teddy


There are no books pointing back to my perm-free on Yasiv except for my own books, so you're probably right.


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## Lia Cooper (Jan 28, 2014)

it's good to know i'm not the only person experiencing this...i guess...no really it just sucks all around ((( I published book 2 in my series ~a week ago and while i've seen about equal number of sales of books 1 and 2 neither book is pointing to the other, i've got a ton of alsobots going out and not a single one point towards my books. very frustrating. hopefully amazon customer service will respond to the bug reports quickly.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm sure there probably is a problem with also boughts, but I've found yasiv wrong many, many times folks (for instance, right now, it says I have one book pointing to mine when in fact I know there are at least twelve).  If you search google with your ASIN number and site:amazon.com you'll be able to see all the books who have you as an also bought.  Some of them really don't have them, like the Deborah Bladon book you mentioned, so there IS a problem, but you might want to check and see if yasiv is wrong on yours.


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## geekgrrl (Oct 14, 2013)

dkgould said:


> I'm sure there probably is a problem with also boughts, but I've found yasiv wrong many, many times folks (for instance, right now, it says I have one book pointing to mine when in fact I know there are at least twelve). If you search google with your ASIN number and site:amazon.com you'll be able to see all the books who have you as an also bought. Some of them really don't have them, like the Deborah Bladon book you mentioned, so there IS a problem, but you might want to check and see if yasiv is wrong on yours.


Thank you for this tip. I just did this and it worked beautifully. Looks like I do have incoming alsoboughts after all. &#128516;


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## ScottS (Jul 3, 2012)

dkgould said:


> I'm sure there probably is a problem with also boughts, but I've found yasiv wrong many, many times folks (for instance, right now, it says I have one book pointing to mine when in fact I know there are at least twelve). If you search google with your ASIN number and site:amazon.com you'll be able to see all the books who have you as an also bought. Some of them really don't have them, like the Deborah Bladon book you mentioned, so there IS a problem, but you might want to check and see if yasiv is wrong on yours.


Good call on that. Thank you for sharing.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

geekgrrl said:


> Thank you for this tip. I just did this and it worked beautifully. Looks like I do have incoming alsoboughts after all. &#128516;


Yeah, it's stunningly more accurate than Yasiv.


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## bundtbaby (Jul 22, 2014)

dkgould said:


> I'm sure there probably is a problem with also boughts, but I've found yasiv wrong many, many times folks (for instance, right now, it says I have one book pointing to mine when in fact I know there are at least twelve). If you search google with your ASIN number and site:amazon.com you'll be able to see all the books who have you as an also bought. Some of them really don't have them, like the Deborah Bladon book you mentioned, so there IS a problem, but you might want to check and see if yasiv is wrong on yours.


 

thank you for this! yasiv has always been wrong for my books and I never had a clue as to how to find my also boughts besides wasting my time searching through page after page. Just tried it and this worked!


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

I don't see this as a new problem. I have always had this problem. Always. Absolutely nothing but my own works point back. I search using the ASIN more or less randomly and I've yet to find a single instance where my works appear on the also boughts of another book. I don't doubt at all that it has inhibited sales growth. I kind of half assumed it was a volume thing, a kind of 'so fast you missed it' thing. Now I'm not so sure.

But what to do? As has been said, this is a tricky one to explain. And where non-standard answers are requested of Amazon, the responses tend to be somewhat aside from the point.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

Chris- if and when the program is working, the only thing that has been really effective for me was to time promos to be concurrent with other people in my genre.  I've got it kind of easy, being (mostly) horror, I ran a promotion right around halloween (when every other horror writer was also running theirs) so I got lots of horror also boughts on that book.  It's changed now, because of something else that I did that was also effective: I put it into a box set with other dystopian authors and folks went on from the box set to buy the sequel, so now I have a nice mix on both the first book and second of both horror and post-apoc/dystopia which is perfect for those two books.  If I change genres (like after this series, I will probably shift more to the science fiction side, which will still fit the horror books- they are still very science fictiony) I will probably email or message some of the authors I want to have in my also boughts and see if we can time promotions at about the same time (it also doesn't have to be exactly the same day, because if people read one the first week and are looking for something similar next week, boom, they'll see yours is free and pick it up).  That would probably easiest and it's mutually beneficial as well.  

Or you could swap back links with folks whose books are like yours (you know, "if you liked this series be sure to check out . . ." sort of thing), do an anthology or just cross promote on social media.  It's only my little opinion and it's not worth much, but I truly, truly believe that the most successful people in this business are the ones who utilize and contribute to the other folks around them, I think the best and most fun way for this whole thing to work is to build a network of colleagues and friends to support each other.  I think the days of the lone artist/writer may be truly behind us.  But what do I know?


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I hope you're right, Phoenix. It's just frustrating that books published on July 10 don't have also boughts - books that sold a lot of copies. 

Every single time I publish, I worry this will ruin my new release, and about half the time, it does.

The kind of effect it has - my latest book got to 106 on the first day.  Whenever that's happened for me in the past, my book has climbed high on the Amazon top 100.  When also boughts DON"T kick in, my book starts dying out in rank and sales within a couple of days of release.  That is what is happening with this book. 

This makes a difference literally of thousands of dollars in income for me, so it really hurts,


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

This is going to sound like a stupid question.  
On the also-boughts- I am guessing that someone went from your book to that book and hence got an also bought.
Well maybe no one has gone from that book to your book hence no also bought.
Or in mind that is how it would work, not just a cross reference.
Could this be possible?  
Now if it was me and I wanted information about author accounts, I would be going to vendor support not customer support.  But that is just me.


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

dkgould said:


> I think the days of the lone artist/writer may be truly behind us. But what do I know?


Interesting points. Thanks. I've been quietly paying forward here and there but never really got engaged with full on cooperation. I'll give it some further thought as sanity allows. 

I'm not the most desperately organised human being on the planet, so cooperation, where timing and such matters, is.... problematic for me.

But back to subject. I'm surprised, now that I think of it, that I have not yet ever seen anything of mine on another books also boughts. Not once. I don't look obsessively but would like to know what the exact score.

I'll just continue to pay attention to this thread, for now.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

Chris, next time you release or have a promo on one of your sci fi calendar, give me a shout [email protected], I'll put you up on the sci fi calendar and see what else I can do 

(any other sci fi folks too!)


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> This is going to sound like a stupid question.
> On the also-boughts- I am guessing that someone went from your book to that book and hence got an also bought.
> Well maybe no one has gone from that book to your book hence no also bought.
> Or in mind that is how it would work, not just a cross reference.
> Could this be possible?


No. That's not how they work. And even if they suddenly changed how they worked on July 10th you'd still expect to see _some_ incoming links on popular books.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

How do the also-boughts work?  
Also next dumb question.  
Let's say you are author A.
Customer bought your book.  Customer also bought B's book.  Now what about C's books.  If more C's are bought off of B's books then A's books, wouldn't it make sense that Amazon would promote C since it is more popular than A.  
It may be that B sells more of C, D, E, F, G and H's books than she does A's.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> How do the also-boughts work?
> Also next dumb question.
> Let's say you are author A.
> Customer bought your book. Customer also bought B's book. Now what about C's books. If more C's are bought off of B's books then A's books, wouldn't it make sense that Amazon would promote C since it is more popular than A.
> It may be that B sells more of C, D, E, F, G and H's books than she does A's.


If the customer bought more of c's books than a's books, then c would show up higher on b's also boughts, so on the first pages, vs further along.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

PamelaKelley said:


> If the customer bought more of c's books than a's books, then c would show up higher on b's also boughts, so on the first pages, vs further along.


Thanks Pamela. That is what I was thinking. I just hope Amazon doesn't use me as an also-bought customer. That could lead to some weird combinations.


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

Your "dumb question" isn't particularly dumb (or actually a question!) correctly explains why also-boughts aren't always reciprocal. Also why having a bestseller in your alsoboughts isn't something to celebrate (I learned that the hard way).


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## Scott Reeves (May 27, 2011)

This stinks! This is total BS! So all my books' buy pages are advertisements for other authors, but those other authors' book pages don't contain advertisements for my books? No offense to other authors, but this stinks.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Scott, 
The easy way to fix that is write a best seller.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

georgette said:


> I checked on a site called Yasiv.com, which shows what books are pointing back at yours - none. This is on a book that ranked as high as 106 on its first day.


Yasiv is a great tool. Did you change it from the default "Books" to "Kindle Store"?

My most recent book was published on 5/30, about eight weeks ago. Currently, on Yasiv, 13 books point directly back to it, three of which are my own. Of those ten that aren't mine, I can pick any one at random and then pick one of that books also boughts that doesn't point directly to mine and when I scroll through that books also boughts (remember, it's not pointing back at mine), my book is there. Every book that's on my Yasiv page for my latest shows my latest book as an also bought, even though it's not pointing back directly. That puts this particular book on 50 other books also boughts, although only ten point directly back at mine.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Well, most of the time the also boughts seem to be pretty fair and accurate.  My book has a list of, say, 13 pages worth of other books underneath it. If I click on those books - usually, most of them are the same - they rank similarly to my books, and when I look at THEIR 13 pages of recommendations, some of my books will be among them.

It makes sense. Amazon is trying to encourage their customers to buy more. To do that, they have to put stuff in front of them that they are most likely to buy, based on past buying history. On my pages, you will see a whole lot of BBW shifter romance recommended.

If you go look on James Rollins pages, in addition to his own books, you will see other international thriller authors listed.

It's a great system - when it works.


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## X. Aratare (Feb 5, 2013)

I did that "trick" where I searched for my ASIN in Amazon to see my alsobots for a book ... only my book came back. Does this mean I have no alsobots? This book is "old", too.  Or am I doing this wrong?


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

One of my book shows up on the also broughts of a Top 10 (overall) book. When it's on the first page, I see a bump in sales. When it's not, sales go down.

The problem is lately, the Also broughts change just about every day. One day I'm featured on the book's first page (amazon.com) the next I'm several pages back. It makes a substantial swing in my sales.

My guess is that they are playing around with the also brought.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

X. Aratare said:


> I did that "trick" where I searched for my ASIN in Amazon to see my alsobots for a book ... only my book came back. Does this mean I have no alsobots? This book is "old", too. Or am I doing this wrong?


 You need to search in Google. If you put ASIN # followed by "site:amazon" (without quotes) into the search box, it will search only amazon for that book, that should show you which also bought lists you are in (and exclude review sites, etc). If you just search for your ASIN in amazon it will only bring up your own book, because it assumes it's giving you exactly what you are looking for.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Re: delay, just to add another data point: My new book went up about 3-4 days ago. I got also-boughts on MY book page yesterday, after 2-3 days, but don't have any also-boughts TO my new book's page on the other books yet. (All my own books will have nearly all my other books as their first-appearing also-boughts.) It typically takes a little while.

It also always takes a day, for me, for my rank to show up. 

I do get quite a few sales on the first day/days, so I don't think it's that. It just seems to be a delay.

I don't think either of these things is particularly new. At least, I've noticed them in the past, for at least--9 months or so?


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

What I had noticed in the past, is that when the also boughts appeared on my home page, then other books were also pointing back at my book at the same time.

This latest glitch, it doesn't seem to be happening that way.

For me, it's only been a week now. For many other authors, it's been 12 days or more that they release new books, but no books are pointing back at them.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

If your book has alsobots on its product page, that should mean it's embedded in the recommendation system. I can't say for certain that a lack of reciprocal alsobots _isn't_ hurting results, but they are probably only a small portion of the overall recos your book is picking up from the other parts of the Amazon engine.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

drno said:


> Also-boughts is Amazon's Bookbub. It will be changed soon to only show similar books in the Kindle Unlimited library. Amazon has made a strategic decision and they are betting their future on it. They are no longer interested in sales, but in subscriptions and borrows and therefore the Kindle Unlimited library is their number one concern.
> 
> iTunes disrupted music stores and radio. Spotify, if you look at the latest numbers is disrupting iTunes. Amazon does not want to wait for Scribd to disrupt it. Amazon is disrupting itself by introducing the subscription model. When you go from a sales model to a subscription model, you no longer have use for an also-boughts function.
> 
> ...


What...wait?
No more BOOM TIME?


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> If your book has alsobots on its product page, that should mean it's embedded in the recommendation system. I can't say for certain that a lack of reciprocal alsobots _isn't_ hurting results, but they are probably only a small portion of the overall recos your book is picking up from the other parts of the Amazon engine.


I wish that were the case for me. Every time my also boughts have kicked in, my sales have immediately climbed by several hundred dollars a day, and my ranking climbs dramatically. Unfortunately, also boughts are make it or break it for me. I hear similar reports from all the authors on the erotica forum I"m on.


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## My_Txxxx_a$$_Left_Too (Feb 13, 2014)

Content removed due to TOS Changes in 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Someone please explain to me what the heck you want Amazon to do.  If anyone can do that, maybe we will have the question for Amazon.


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## My_Txxxx_a$$_Left_Too (Feb 13, 2014)

Content removed due to TOS Changes in 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

MolPri said:


> This is not true.


Phew. Glad it isn't (re the 100 sales needed for alsobots


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Ann,
You just totally confused me.  Let me see if I can simplify the question.
Are you saying the also-boughts are not showing up on your account?  Or
Are you saying the also-boughts are not cross referencing between books?    
Rather like are you saying that Wool is showing up on your also-boughts but you are not showing up on Wool's also boughts?

Tell me the problem in very simple english.  How are the also boughts broken?
That should give Amazon something to work with.
Because well Hugh shows up on mine but I don't show up on Hugh's is not a problem.  It is simply logistics.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

I am having this issue with one of my books that was published a month ago.

Thanks for making this thread, as I had no idea of the issue until checking today after reading here.  

My rankings have been poor and my book fell much more quickly than made sense to me, and now I have at least a partial understanding of what caused that abrupt fall after the initial burst of activity from fans who were aware of the book's release.

For those who don't understand why this is such a big deal, I'm not sure how to explain it because it's something that takes some time to familiarize yourself with.  Also Boughts are a big part of how a new book is discovered, and if your book literally shows up nowhere else than it will likely sink like a stone.  

As an example, if someone buys Hugh Howey's Wool and then they buy Sand in significant numbers, Sand should show up in Wool's Also Boughts and vice versa.  The more there is overlap in buying habits, the earlier the book will show up on the Also Boughts.  When it gets to be enough volume, the paired book will likely show up on page 1 or 2 of the Also Boughts.

But for some recent books, something has gone wrong in that scenario.

What we are saying is happening, is equivalent to Sand not being shown ANYWHERE in Wool's Also Boughts.  Not only is it not showing up there, but its not showing up on ANY Also Boughts anywhere, for any other book on Amazon.  That means, even though Hugh knows that thousands of people bought his book, it didn't ever work its way into another book's Also Boughts.

This didn't happen to Hugh, as far as we know.  But it did happen to me and others.  It happened to me with a book that sold hundreds of copies in the first week, so that book should have shown up somewhere on another Also Bought, and it did not.  Not a single other Also Bought in a month?  I have dozens of other books and that's never happened before, to my knowledge.

This is some kind of glitch and it's very harmful to sales numbers.  As to what Amazon can do about it--they need to figure out what's causing the glitch and fix it.

That's on them to figure out, I'm not a computer programmer, I don't write code, it's not my job to tell them how to fix that problem.  Just because I can't formulate a fix doesn't mean the problem is imaginary.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I really don't think it's on purpose or anything, if that helps. My own books aren't pointing yet to my new book--up a few days.  But my other books are pointing to my latest book--up 7 weeks. It's more a delay, I think. Not that that's good. 

I am getting some good position right now with KU, so I can't believe it's that they don't want the new book to be visible or anything nefarious. My guess is that it's maybe a server issue with all the KU stuff or something. A delay. I will post back when I see the also-boughts for the other books include the new title; how long that takes.


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## My_Txxxx_a$$_Left_Too (Feb 13, 2014)

Content removed due to TOS Changes in 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Rosalind James said:


> It's more a delay, I think. Not that that's good.


A delay for a month? That's a staggering delay, and that's what I have. My book was released a month ago, not a single other book shows it in their also boughts. It was the latest book in a series and my other books in the series were ranked in the 2,000s. Even the new book was that high, briefly. It was bought hundreds of times, and yet a month later, doesn't even show up as an Also Bought in the previous book of the same series!

It's not intentional on Amazon's part, I'm sure. But it's a hell of a glitch!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> It happened to me with a book that sold hundreds of copies in the first week, so that book should have shown up somewhere on another Also Bought, and it did not. Not a single other Also Bought in a month? I have dozens of other books and that's never happened before, to my knowledge.


Thank you for the answer.
You will notice that I took out most of your words.

How about a simple note to Amazon. 
I have sold XXX copies of my new Z book since Date. It is not showing up in any also-boughts. Is this a glitch?
Thank you for your time
Author

That would probably work better than anything else.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

BTW I think this would be hugely damaging for the first book in a new series.  My luck was that the other books in my series weren't hit by the glitch and so new readers can still find my series through other Also Boughts.  As a result, they will still search for the latest book in my series that was hit by the glitch.

However, usually my series gets a big boost when I release the latest book.  Didn't happen this time and I think now I know why...


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> How about a simple note to Amazon.
> I have sold XXX copies of my new Z book since Date. It is not showing up in any also-boughts. Is this a glitch?


Thanks for the suggestion. I have already written my contact but have yet to hear anything back. I'm sure, from the sound of it, that they've received emails by now. This seems like a fairly widespread problem, and because a lot of authors don't notice these things, there are likely MANY more books affected than anyone realizes.

I pay attention to this stuff and didn't realize it until just today. The reason it's confusing is because the book that is affected by the glitch doesn't appear abnormal. It has a list of also boughts on its page. It seems fine. Its only when you check for THAT book in other books' Also Boughts that you come to the dawning realization that your book has no others pointing back at it&#8230;

It's hard to explain, hard to notice, and probably harder to fix. I guess we'll find out.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Teddy Jacobs said:


> Do any permafree books have also boughts pointing at them? I think Amazon has made it so they are not discoverable.
> 
> Teddy


My paid titles no longer point to my permafree but my permafree points to SOME of my paid titles.

My one title still in select does point to books that are NOT in KU (so far)


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

dkgould said:


> If you search google with your ASIN number and site:amazon.com you'll be able to see all the books who have you as an also bought.


That works better than Yasiv
However, when I click on the books that Google brings up, my book isn't actually in the also-boughts.


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

Quiss said:


> My paid titles no longer point to my permafree but my permafree points to SOME of my paid titles.
> 
> My one title still in select does point to books that are NOT in KU (so far)


Same for me. My permafree has alsbots for others as well as my own paid titles but it's not in any that I can see with Google OR manually checking. Interesting. I just assumed it would be in some by now. Hmmm AND I started checking alsobots of some of the titles in my list and only found one freebie listed. Will keep investigating. I wonder if permafrees (or titles that have been free for a certain number of days) are just not getting into the algorithms for the alsobots.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

There was a thread started by Annie Jocoby a while ago that stuck out to me, where she analyzed why her new book, Fearless, hadn't done as well as her previous books&#8230;link to thread below.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190100.0.html

It's permafree now so not sure how that changes anything, but I just did a search and it didn't appear to come up in any also boughts for other books.

I have a feeling that when it was paid, it may have fallen victim to this glitch but I can't be sure...very unfortunate if that's what happened. She was obviously trying to figure out what had gone wrong, and it's possible that it never stood a chance...


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## CristinaRayne (Apr 17, 2014)

My permafree tends to appear on a lot of other permafree also-boughts rather than the paid books. It might be because the majority of people who downloaded it are readers that mostly go for the permafrees or Amazon's algorithms lump the permafrees together. Who knows?


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

CristinaRayne said:


> My permafree tends to appear on a lot of other permafree also-boughts rather than the paid books. It might be because the majority of people who downloaded it are readers that mostly go for the permafrees or Amazon's algorithms lump the permafrees together. Who knows?


Mmm, this is what I'm seeing when I clicked on your permafree Claimed book.










All paid books, your others included. I went through all 10 pages and they were also all paid books. =)

But I'm just one person. =P


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## FictionalWriter (Aug 4, 2010)

theaatkinson said:


> I wonder if permafrees (or titles that have been free for a certain number of days) are just not getting into the algorithms for the alsobots.


I believe Amazon is deliberately keeping them out of many also bought lists. They want to encourage readers to buy paid books not download free books. Remember back in 2012 when they began to penalize affiliates for advertising free books...?


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

romanceauthor said:


> I believe Amazon is deliberately keeping them out of many also bought lists. They want to encourage readers to buy paid books not download free books. Remember back in 2012 when they began to penalize affiliates for advertising free books...?


I have a book 2 that doesn't sell many copies. However, book 1 (which was free until this week) doesn't show up until the third or forth page.

It seems like free books are weighted against in the Amazon store.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm not sure what's going on, especially with the way Amazon does Also Boughts for free books.

However, this rash of new releases that aren't showing up anywhere, on any Also Boughts for other books, is really frustrating.  I think 99 percent of authors it has affected would have absolutely no idea.  It's way too hard to spot unless you specifically check for it and understand the issue.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

SevenDays said:


> I'm pretty sure ELHawk started a thread about this exact same problem the other day. I can't recall if there were any answers in that thread, but you might check there. It seems like it's a pretty widespread problem. I don't have any also-boughts on my new release either, but I figured that's just because it's not selling well.


Yeah, my new release seemed to take way longer than usual to get *its* also-boughts, and I don't think it's showing up on any other books' pages yet.

Hmmm...perplexing.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> Yeah, my new release seemed to take way longer than usual to get *its* also-boughts, and I don't think it's showing up on any other books' pages yet.
> 
> Hmmm...perplexing.


Right, that's the glitch. Your book SEEMS to have also boughts.

But when you go to search for it, it's not coming up for any other books as being part of their also boughts.

In other words, your book refers out but nothing refers back to it. It's a closed loop, people go out to other books, but no books send readers to your new book.

The reason its hard to see is because you need to specifically look for that. It's very insidious. But also very damaging. If you have fans, they'll search and find your new book. Maybe you hit a list and people find it that way. But you're doomed to a certain extent, because without those Also Boughts feeding new readers to your book, it quickly begins to sink in the rankings and after the initial rush from fans it just&#8230;disappears for the most part.


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## CristinaRayne (Apr 17, 2014)

Cryptic Fawn said:


> Mmm, this is what I'm seeing when I clicked on your permafree Claimed book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I didn't explain myself very well.  I meant my permafree showing up on other authors' permafree pages more often than on a paid book's. I was just making an observation about the trends of my particular book.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

CristinaRayne said:


> I guess I didn't explain myself very well.  I meant my permafree showing up on other authors' permafree pages more often than on a paid book's. I was just making an observation about the trends of my particular book.


Ah okay, I misunderstood. =P


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> There was a thread started by Annie Jocoby a while ago that stuck out to me, where she analyzed why her new book, Fearless, hadn't done as well as her previous books...link to thread below.
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,190100.0.html
> 
> ...


I hate to sound like sour grapes, and I thank you for pointing this out, but the Amazon algos just haven't helped me. Ever. In fact, I just googled my ASINs for each of my books, and none of them appear in anybody's also boughts. Yasiv confirmed this for me. In fact, I have checked some of the books that have pointed to my books in the past, and I still didn't appear in the also boughts. It's frustrating, for sure, and I have no idea why Amazon doesn't help me at all, but that's the reality of the situation. I just keep on keeping on with my strategy, which has worked well so far. Would it be nice if the Zon gods smiled on me? Sure, but they don't, so I make my own luck.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

And....I figured out, finally, why my Broken series took off in the UK but not in America. Lo and behold, googling the ASIN for Saving Scotty on Amazon.co.uk showed loads of books that have Saving Scotty in their also boughts. Highly ranked books, too. In America - nada. Bubkus. 

Mystery solved. Oh well, I guess I should be grateful that at least the UK Amazon gods seem to like me!


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Hi Annie, Glad to see you noticed my posts about this.  

I want to say that this, to me, isn't a case of Amazon gods frowning or smiling.  

It's not normal for a book to not be included in ANY other book's also boughts, it's not the way it usually works, and in my opinion, it's tremendously damaging to sales.  I'm not at all sure what's causing this glitch, but I do believe many more authors' books have been affected by it, and they don't realize it.

The proper way to do the search is by going to google and plugging in:

Your Book's ASIN Number site:amazon.com

And then hit search.  It will then reveal where that book shows up only on the Amazon site.

You have to do it exactly the way I did it above, no extra spaces added, etc.  If you do it slightly different the results don't seem to come up correctly.  When the results come up, it should show your book's page, as well as any other books that reference your book.  When there is an issue, you'll find only the book page and pretty much no other results.

I do think its important we make Amazon aware of it.  Something like this absolutely kills a book thats a standalone or first in a series.  If you've built momentum with a series and a book gets affected, it doesn't suffer nearly as much because people will naturally search for the next book.  That's a saving grace, but it shouldn't matter.

I wonder just how many other books have been impacted and the authors are similarly unaware...


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Annie, I just did a quick scan of your books and right away I can see that they do reference each other in their also boughts.  And I also found that Drawn 2, by Liliana Anderson features End of Illusions (your book) on the second page of its also boughts.  So at least some of your books are in the system and seem to be functioning properly.  I would need to spend a lot more time to check them all and see where the issue lies...

But I'm fairly certain that your book Fearless is not in the system correctly, and cannot be found via any other books' Also Boughts.  As to whether any of your other books are having this issue, some very well may be.  But your End of Illusions series seems to be okay, from my quick scan...


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> Hi Annie, Glad to see you noticed my posts about this.
> 
> I want to say that this, to me, isn't a case of Amazon gods frowning or smiling. If, in fact, none of your books are showing up in other books' also boughts--that is very strange.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's hard not to take it personally. When I saw how many highly ranked also-boughts I appear under in the UK, which totally explained why my Broken books have sold SO MUCH better than in America, which, in turn, showed me just how important those also-boughts are, permafree or no permafree, and I realize how much harder I apparently have to get noticed because all of my books don't appear in others' also boughts...well, it's frustrating, to say the very least. I've sold a lot in America. Thousands of books by now, yet none of my books appear in anybody's also boughts?

I suppose I could contact Amazon about it, but, most likely, they won't do anything. So, yeah, I have cement shoes, but I'm making it work. I could be making it work much better, but, that's life I guess.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> Annie, I just did a quick scan of your books and right away I can see that they do reference each other in their also boughts. And I also found that Drawn 2, by Liliana Anderson features End of Illusions (your book) on the second page of its also boughts. So at least some of your books are in the system and seem to be functioning properly. I would need to spend a lot more time to check them all and see where the issue lies...
> 
> But I'm fairly certain that your book Fearless is not in the system correctly, and cannot be found via any other books' Also Boughts. As to whether any of your other books are having this issue, some very well may be. But your End of Illusions series seems to be okay, from my quick scan...


Thanks! Come to think of it, End of Illusions has picked up sales lately. But still, only one book? Grrrrrr.....


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

anniejocoby said:


> Thanks! Come to think of it, End of Illusions has picked up sales lately. But still, only one book? Grrrrrr.....


 No, I think there is more than one. I just did a quick check to see if there were any. Once there is at least one, you know its not been hit with the dreaded glitch.

I didn't do the ASIN search, I just glanced at the also boughts to eyeball and see what was going on. Your books are referencing each other. My guess is you have one book thats been affected, the Fearless book. Other than that, I am not sure but I'd say your others are okay unless proven otherwise.

Remember, its not having only one or two also boughts that show your book. In this case, Fearless can't be found in ANY OTHER BOOK'S also boughts. Its essentially invisible. Your other books are showing up in the system, even if not as much as we might like 

And also boughts presence does grow over time normally.

But in the case of Fearless, you haven't shown up anywhere for whatever reason. That, in my opinion, may have been what led to the sales issue. But I can't be sure, as I'm still trying to figure this out myself. Hopefully others more knowledgable will weigh in...


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

I think all who had a release that glitched should ask Amazon as a collective, to re-release with a new release date, after they fix the also-bots and give you that 30 day push. I have another book under a pen name...same thing. I'll sign the list!


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> No, I think there is more than one. I just did a quick check to see if there were any. Once there is at least one, you know its not been hit with the dreaded glitch.
> 
> I didn't do the ASIN search, I just glanced at the also boughts to eyeball and see what was going on. Your books are referencing each other. My guess is you have one book thats been affected, the Fearless book. Other than that, I am not sure but I'd say your others are okay unless proven otherwise.
> 
> ...


Welp, that would explain things. Man, that book sunk like a stone. That would partially be why. At any rate, that book wasn't doing me one bit of good, so I made it permafree. There's more than one way to skin a cat. 

Thanks for looking out for me!!!!!!!


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> I think all who had a release that glitched should ask Amazon as a collective, to re-release with a new release date, after they fix the also-bots and give you that 30 day push. I have another book under a pen name...same thing. I'll sign the list!


Honestly, I would just be happy with Amazon fixing the books that are out and making sure it doesn't happen again! Yeah, i lost money and had some heart ache&#8230;which stinks. But now my concern is I want to publish a new book soon and I'm quite nervous its going to happen again.

Now that would really boil my blood.

But I like your idea too! Assuming it could ever happen


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Tell me the problem in very simple english. How are the also boughts broken?
> That should give Amazon something to work with.
> Because well Hugh shows up on mine but I don't show up on Hugh's is not a problem. It is simply logistics.


You keep bringing up this concept of alsoboughts being not being automatically symmetrical and reciprical. This is absolutely true and one hundred percent correct. It is aknowledged in the original post. I assure you the people who are aware of this problem and trying to raise awareness in this thread completely understand this point. But this is _not_ the issue that is being raised.

The issue is not about any individual books not having alsoboughts, but that _NO_ books published through KDP since about July 10th (close to two weeks now) have _ANY_ incoming also-boughts in the US store.


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## My_Txxxx_a$$_Left_Too (Feb 13, 2014)

Content removed due to TOS Changes in 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

My Also Boughts are here!!! Bride Of The Alpha - check it out.

Bella Forrest's also boughts are here now too - I had checked hers just because she is such a huge seller. Her latest, A Shade of Vampire 7,  has ABs now; it didn't yesterday.

I should come on KB and bitch and whine more often.

Does everyone else have theirs now, too, I hope?

This experience was still an enormous PITA, especially for those people who didn't have ABs since at least July 10, and I agree, every damn time I upload a book these days I worry about this for days. Will the ABs work this time?


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

AnnChristy said:


> I sent an email to Amazon and specifically asked that they not send me an automated response based on the keyword "also-bought".
> 
> They sent me back a form letter of utter stupidity and clearly did not actually read the simple words:
> 
> ...


It appears that they have canned responses that they cut and paste. (Picture a little icon with my head exploding.)


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

COOL!  My book has its Also Boughts now as well, and I checked Annie Jocoby's book Fearless, which is also fixed!!!

Funny, the fix must be really new though.  My google search still doesn't return anything even though the Also Boughts work now on amazon.  I think in a few hours it will start showing up there too, probably takes time for Google to index the new stuff that pops up.

Maybe someone was listening after all.      

The power of kboards....


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

georgette said:


> My Also Boughts are here!!! Bride Of The Alpha - check it out.
> 
> I should come on KB and b*tch and whine more often.
> 
> ...


I am so glad you came here and posted about it!! Thank you. This was a big issue, and I think obviously a fix was in order. I doubt it was a coincidence that suddenly now all the books have their Also Boughts back. We need to stay on top of the problem and see if it continues, as something like that can and does sink a new book release in the matter of days&#8230;

From now on if someone has a new release and their Also Boughts SEEM to appear, the first thing they should do is search in Google and then also manually start looking to see if any books refer BACK to the new book.

My hope is that now that Amazon seems to be aware, it might not happen again. We can hope, right?


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Oh, I hope and pray this never happens again! 

But I am not that optimistic.

The most frustrating part of this glitch, this time, was that if you looked on your own page, it appeared as if everything was fine, because you'd have pages and pages of also boughts. That made it near impossible to explain to anybody but a fellow self pubbed author.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I just published last night... the other book I published this month took 4 days to get Also Boughts and 100 sales. A Winter Wrong already has 31 sales between sales and borrows... so I'll see if it takes longer for them too appear and be pointing in both directions.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Mine are up as well. Just took a day or two longer than the ones pointing out. Glad they are there.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

My also boughts disapppeared days ago, and it still isn't fixed. It has killed sales and ranking.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Are you guys seeing AlsoBoughts pointing back TO your books? Or only AlsoBoughts appearing on your book's page?

In other words, are any books referring back to your new releases, or are your new releases only referring out to other books?

Because Tidewater still seems to NOT have referrals from any other book.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

AnnChristy said:


> I sent an email to Amazon and specifically asked that they not send me an automated response based on the keyword "also-bought".
> 
> They sent me back a form letter of utter stupidity and clearly did not actually read the simple words:
> 
> ...


If in fact there are still no AlsoBoughts pointing *TO* new releases, then it's time to email Jeff Bezos with this issue. Don't screw around with KDP and their cut-and-paste b.s. anymore.

It wouldn't be the first time I've contacted Bezos over serious problems and a failure to receive anything other than a cut-and-paste reply from KDP.

However, since I've had to email him twice before, I want somebody else to do it this time in order to maximize the efficacy. He's probably got my email address blocked by now.


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

You have incoming alsoboughts EL: www.amazon.com/dp/B00ILWP6QM

You may join in with the rejoicing!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Wow. FINALLY! Sheesh, I hope this helps turn around Launch Month for Tidewater before it's too late! 

By the way, if anybody is looking for an intense and sad but well-written historical novel, I can recommend one to you...


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

Apparently after checking your alsoboughts Amazon now thinks I'm enamored with all things Tidewater.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Heh heh... well you should be!


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Hmm. Our Also-Vieweds switched to Alsobots (yay!), but nothing pointing TO yet. It could be the crunches happen separately: Also Vieweds > Also Boughts Out > Also Boughts In.
> Some of us have noticed some excessive crunching for new releases in the past few weeks too. Wednesday is a little unusual to see the changeover. So there could yet be another crunch for some of the newbies released in the past week happening tomorrow.
> I still think the lag was just a by-product of server processing redistribution with the rollout of KU.


Hey Phoenix, thanks for posting this. You're one of the very few people around here that really seem to have a grasp on this stuff. Could you maybe go into more detail on what day of the week this typically happens? Why would it be that a bunch of books all received also boughts pointing back to them on a certain day of the week/month?

I do find it a bit of a coincidence that after this thread popped up and we all contacted Amazon, that suddenly (within hours) books that hadn't had any Also Boughts pointing to them for days or even weeks suddenly got them.

Maybe they did some kind of manual override for a certain batch of books from a certain date range&#8230;I was wondering if you could provide more insight as to how long you find it usually takes from a new book getting published, to then having other books referring back to it through their also boughts.

Thanks in advance!!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Amazing isn't it, how a public forum works.  I have seen this happen before.  
Glad your also boughts are working again.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> COOL! My book has its Also Boughts now as well, and I checked Annie Jocoby's book Fearless, which is also fixed!!!
> 
> Funny, the fix must be really new though. My google search still doesn't return anything even though the Also Boughts work now on amazon. I think in a few hours it will start showing up there too, probably takes time for Google to index the new stuff that pops up.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gorvnice! But, according to Google, it's only showing up in Deeper Illusions also-boughts. It's a start though.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

I published my new novel Monday (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LZXDS6Y) and so far no also-boughts showing up--at least not that I can find. Who do you write to at Amazon?

Thanks

John


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

anniejocoby said:


> Thanks Gorvnice! But, according to Google, it's only showing up in Deeper Illusions also-boughts. It's a start though.


Yeah, I mentioned earlier that the results aren't showing yet in Google. I think it just takes time for new results to display in Google searches. But go in manually to Fearless's also boughts, click on them and then check those books' also boughts. Fearless pops up now!


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

John Ellsworth said:


> I published my new novel Monday (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LZXDS6Y) and so far no also-boughts showing up--at least not that I can find. Who do you write to at Amazon?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John


I would just write to support. Although many times you'll get some sort of cut and paste job, you need to be clear and keep pressing the issue. Also, update in this thread if it continues, since I feel we still need to track whether this is an ongoing problem for new books.

Hopefully Phoenix can come in and shed a little light on what the typical also-boughts pointing to a new book timeframe is. I never paid enough attention before to know what a typical time frame was, so it would help to establish what would be considered a delay&#8230;

Since your book is only a few days old, it might not even be delayed at this point.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Is it possible some Amazon techie saw the concern here and freed up processing power to perform that crunch ahead of plan? Sure (and thank you, lurker techie, if that's so!). Is it likely? Not so much. IMO.


Wow, thanks for all the info! You are way way way ahead of the curve in terms of knowledge and gathering data to time releases, etc. That's dang impressive&#8230;

You may be right that it was a coincidence, but my book (which sold hundreds of copies early on) did not have any referring also boughts for two weeks until this morning. Others seem to have a similar experience&#8230;but still, I defer to your knowledge. it could be coincidental.

However, based on what you wrote, it really shouldn't take more than a few days/week for a new release selling at high volume to be included in one of those crunches and then have alsobots referring back to it from other titles. But perhaps I'm still wrong, and it simply varies.

One thing is for sure. I'm going to pay a heck of a lot more attention going forward, because the difference can make or break a new release, I believe.

Thanks so much Phoenix, for the detailed response.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I wrote KDP support. Here's hoping, and, like you say, I may not even be late yet.

John


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I used the method recommended above (typed in:  B00KLDJ63I site:Amazon.com) and instead of the single book pointing at mine shown on Yasiv (selecting Kindle Store) found around 30 books which have mine in their also boughts.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Jash said:


> Apparently after checking your alsoboughts Amazon now thinks I'm enamored with all things Tidewater.


Is it wrong that I want those flip flops?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> I still think the lag was just a by-product of server processing redistribution with the rollout of KU.


I think you're probably right about that, Phoenix. That's what I've been assuming.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

WOW. This does seem to be making a difference. Now that I've finally got in-pointing AlsoBoughts on Tidewater, I've sold almost as many copies just this morning as I sold all day yesterday.

Victory!


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

gorvnice said:


> Yeah, I mentioned earlier that the results aren't showing yet in Google. I think it just takes time for new results to display in Google searches. But go in manually to Fearless's also boughts, click on them and then check those books' also boughts. Fearless pops up now!


I'll check that when I get to my regular computer. Thanks so much for looking out for me!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Well I'm glad to see the problem seems to being fixed! I was worried that when I release my trilogy it would still be an issue.


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## WhoAmI? (Mar 14, 2014)

I do not accept nor do I consent to KBoards/VerticalScope's Terms of Service which were implemented without proper notification.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

KathrynAMiller said:


> Heh, tell me about it. A.C. Scott, love ya buddy, but your Cuckolding Dave is a completely different genre than my sweet paranormal romance. I'm running a free day in Kindle Select today to attempt to get different Also-Views to pop up.
> 
> I'm hoping that my 50 downloads (so far) may be enough to even get some Also-Bots to appear, but after reading this thread, I won't hold my breath on that one. For Also-Bots of either direction.


Hope the download helps. Maybe you won't get puppy playpens or CSI or Hot Alpha SEALs. Those are my last 3 purchases.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

One of the best threads ever. Way to get things done!


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

Garwsh, you're welcome. 

And may I never have to start another of these threads again! 

My book is already climbing again and sales are increasing, now that it has ABs. All hail the mighty alsobots.


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## Jnassise (Mar 22, 2010)

I recently replublished all of the books in my Templar series.  With one exception, all of those books no longer have two way also-boughts.  All of them DID have also boughts about 90 days ago.  For those who wrote support, was there any particular wording you used?


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## My_Txxxx_a$$_Left_Too (Feb 13, 2014)

Content removed due to TOS Changes in 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

This has been a fascinating thread! 

Am I to understand that there is a 100-sold threshold before the inbound links even start? 
If you don't get to 100 before the 30-day shelf, does it just never work for you? Or does it also-bot other older titles?

I have no innies except to the other book in the series, published 10 and 7 days ago. Should I wait for.... something before publishing #3? Or go for it?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

LisaGloria said:


> This has been a fascinating thread!
> 
> Am I to understand that there is a 100-sold threshold before the inbound links even start?
> If you don't get to 100 before the 30-day shelf, does it just never work for you? Or does it also-bot other older titles?
> ...


No, I don't think there's a threshold. I think that number got kicked around because I mentioned in the other thread that I'd already sold about 100 copies, but still no AlsoBoughts. Whatever the threshold is, I think it's much lower than 100.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> No, I don't think there's a threshold. I think that number got kicked around because I mentioned in the other thread that I'd already sold about 100 copies, but still no AlsoBoughts. Whatever the threshold is, I think it's much lower than 100.


OK. Well, it's higher than 50 paid. Or I just need to wait a bit for the next "crunch." (That was an awesome post.)


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

drno said:


> Also-boughts is Amazon's Bookbub. It will be changed soon to only show similar books in the Kindle Unlimited library. Amazon has made a strategic decision and they are betting their future on it. They are no longer interested in sales, but in subscriptions and borrows and therefore the Kindle Unlimited library is their number one concern.
> 
> iTunes disrupted music stores and radio. Spotify, if you look at the latest numbers is disrupting iTunes. Amazon does not want to wait for Scribd to disrupt it. Amazon is disrupting itself by introducing the subscription model. When you go from a sales model to a subscription model, you no longer have use for an also-boughts function.
> 
> ...


I would think they're paying for big names because people like JK Rowlings can get more subscribers than all of us indies combined. A lot of people aren't going to pay 120 a year with no big names.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

theaatkinson said:


> If I read the thread correctly, it seems sales have to bit 100 before the alsobots kick in... sigh. Gonna take my new release forever


Quickest way to fix that is to do the first 90 days in Select and run a free promotion.

Once you do that, even after your sales rank goes back down when it kicks over to paid, your Also Boughts stick...

I know because I just checked YASIV on my book Nice Girl Like You, and I have something like 150 books in my "cloud" of also-boughts."


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I've been following this thread with interest. I had a release on 16 July and the alsobots took ages to show up and then were clunky for a long time afterwards. I'm glad to hear it seems to be sorting itself. And now I'm off to buy some flip-flops.


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

I really don't think it's 100 sales to get alsoboughts. I've heard from authors who got alsoboughts with much lower numbers - like 10, or so. 

Now that my ABs are working, my ranking went from the high 380s to the 230s in the the last 24 hours or so. It makes a HUGE difference. Without the ABs - even on a brand new release, my ranking would keep sinking. I know this from experience. 

Now I'm 217! Woot woot! Party over here, party over there...


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

I think the also-bought weirdness has been going on for awhile. I think I lost all the ones that were pointing back to mine up until recently because the last 3 weeks I'd sell maybe one book every other day when before I was selling 5-7 a day. I thought it was the 60 day cliff. Summer slump. Better to write another book than worry about it, etc. *shrug* Now my also-boughts are back and sales are picking back up with it. And I didn't email Amazon about the issue, either. 

Massive algo upheaval going on? Who knows.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

CraigInOregon said:


> Quickest way to fix that is to do the first 90 days in Select and run a free promotion.
> 
> Once you do that, even after your sales rank goes back down when it kicks over to paid, your Also Boughts stick...
> 
> I know because I just checked YASIV on my book Nice Girl Like You, and I have something like 150 books in my "cloud" of also-boughts."


Craig, I looked at Yasiv for your NGLY, and yes, you have a huge cloud of Also-Boughts pointing AWAY from you. You only have one pointing back TO you, and it's your own book (the one with the bee-looking cover, can't remember title, but it's in your sig-which I can't see while typing this).


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## Jnassise (Mar 22, 2010)

After the usual canned response from KDP Support, I pushed back a second time on the issue I'm having and received this response last night:

"To make sure there isn't any issue with "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" section of your books, I've forwarded your information to our technical team to validate the "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" section of your books.

We'll need a little time to look into the issue you're having. We'll contact you with more information by the end of the day on July 29, 2014."

So we'll see what they say after the 29th.

-Joe


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Jnassise said:


> After the usual canned response from KDP Support, I pushed back a second time on the issue I'm having and received this response last night:
> 
> "To make sure there isn't any issue with "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" section of your books, I've forwarded your information to our technical team to validate the "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" section of your books.
> 
> ...


Joe, my first book has been downloaded free and paid over 56,000 times since May 2. I should have TONS of A/B's pointing back to me. I have 5. KDP will do nothing about it for me. Soooo frustrating....


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

L.L. Akers said:


> Joe, my first book has been downloaded free and paid over 56,000 times since May 2. I should have TONS of A/B's pointing back to me. I have 5. KDP will do nothing about it for me. Soooo frustrating....


Google is showing about 79 alsobots for Let Me Go.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Rayven T. Hill said:


> Google is showing about 79 alsobots for Let Me Go.


Really? I spent an hour yesterday looking at Google and only found 5 books pointing back in the .com store, one of which was my 2nd book! Maybe they fixed it! ...running off to look again! Thanks, Rayven!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> Craig, I looked at Yasiv for your NGLY, and yes, you have a huge cloud of Also-Boughts pointing AWAY from you. You only have one pointing back TO you, and it's your own book (the one with the bee-looking cover, can't remember title, but it's in your sig-which I can't see while typing this).


Well... that's tricky of Yasiv.

According to a Google search, I have 15 pointing back at me on that book, for what it's worth...

Yasiv may be visually appealing, but apparently it's still very beta...


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

CraigInOregon said:


> Well... that's tricky of Yasiv.
> 
> According to a Google search, I have 15 pointing back at me on that book, for what it's worth...
> 
> Yasiv may be visually appealing, but apparently it's still very beta...


You are correct. It's wrong for mine too.


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## Nick Bryan (Jul 3, 2014)

My also-boughts have kicked in already on Amazon UK after releasing on Tuesday AND include a recent trad-pub book I quite liked. I was quite prominently displayed under his book for a bit too. So that's nice.

Nothing US yet, but my sales have been pretty heavily UK-skewed.


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