# How long should my erotica books be?



## Guest (Jul 14, 2017)

Hi all. While I wait for my beta readers for my novel, I'm writing a humorous erotica story called "Cuntar The Barbarian." 

I'm wondering how long a serial series should be. Like you sell the first one for 99cents, the next for $2.99, etc? And then how many words should they be. I'm hoping the humor and graphic sex and violence will make them addictive.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Ugh serials  
They are as long as they need to be to have a beginning, middle, and temporary end.

While not erotica, the one serial I really loved was _Switched at Marriage _ where the first book, _A Wedding to Remember_, is 24,500 words/106 pages. That's probably at the high end of length for a typical serial episode, but that's about as short as I'm willing to go. Any shorter and it feels like I'm being gouged for money with an anemic story.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2017)

Are serials not popular anymore? I heard before that serials were the way to go.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

TonyD said:


> Are serials not popular anymore? I heard before that serials were the way to go.


They had a major resurgence around KU1. The game got switched and they're not as universally favorable anymore. YMMV, depending on genre.

Speaking about erotica specifically, the whole point of that game is to charge $2.99+, whether your shorts are serialized or not. My sense is that people won't even bother with $0.99 erotica, because it's perceived as shabby by comparison.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Dolphin said:


> They had a major resurgence around KU1. The game got switched and they're not as universally favorable anymore. YMMV, depending on genre.
> 
> Speaking about erotica specifically, the whole point of that game is to charge $2.99+, whether your shorts are serialized or not. My sense is that people won't even bother with $0.99 erotica, because it's perceived as shabby by comparison.


I don't think that's true. Look at Alexis Angel. All her books are .99, and she's cleaning up. Her latest book is #186 in the store, and all of her books seem to be bestsellers. Madison Faye's erotica fairy tale book is number 48, and it's also .99. It seems that .99 is where erotica sells right now.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

anniejocoby said:


> I don't think that's true. Look at Alexis Angel. All her books are .99, and she's cleaning up. Her latest book is #186 in the store, and all of her books seem to be bestsellers.


She--and the many people doing the same thing-- are calling their books romance and sticking them in romance. We can argue whether that's accurate or not, but I don't see how it serves OP. Erotica and erotic romance are very different beasts.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Because I like to read shorter books, I quite enjoy serials. I expect each one to be about half an hour to read (like an episode of a tv show) so a word count of around 15k? (That's a total guess, mainly because I don't know if I'm a fast reader or a slow reader). I wouldn't want to pay more than 0.99 per "episode" though.

That said, I price my novella series at 2.99 each. They are approx 30k words per book.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Well, are the $0.99 erotica success stories selling at least six times better than their $2.99 competitors?

I'll certainly acknowledge that I'm not an expert here, either way. Most of the folks who are fled KBoards long ago. You might want to seek them out in their new communities, OP.


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## dgcasey (Apr 16, 2017)

I would say about 7-9". Oh wait ...


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## jcalloway (Jan 10, 2014)

dgcasey said:


> I would say about 7-9". Oh wait ...


Eeeeey-oooo! Someone finally said it!


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

Dolphin said:


> They had a major resurgence around KU1. The game got switched and they're not as universally favorable anymore. YMMV, depending on genre.
> 
> Speaking about erotica specifically, the whole point of that game is to charge $2.99+, whether your shorts are serialized or not. My sense is that people won't even bother with $0.99 erotica, because it's perceived as shabby by comparison.


Years ago, I published five short erotica stories (2.5K to 4K words), priced them each at $2.99 and they're still selling today. I haven't released anymore of them in a while and sales have definitely slowed, but if I would have kept at it, Releasing one a week, I'd probably be loaded with cash right now. As I'm typing this, I'm considering also relaunching that pen name lol.

I would literally write them in 1-2 hours, spend 15 minutes editing them, and about a half hour to create the covers. Total investment time for each short was between 2-4 hours (I'd estimate about 15 hours tops for all five stories). Each one has sold around 250 copies at full price, which is actually more than a few of my full length novels.

Yeah, I just basically talked myself back into writing erotic shorts...


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Lol K.B... sex sells... always!


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## BellaJames (Sep 8, 2016)

What Crystal said.

I could write a list of the authors writing short so called romances but most are erotica. I mentioned before that quite a few erotica authors are taking their erotica stories and converting them into romance stories.
A lot of ex-erotica authors are making the mistake of writing an erotic story and tacking on a HEA.

It is frustrating to try to find genuine short romance now, especially in the short reads chart.

To the OP, if you want to get advice about writing erotica I would go over to _reddit erotica authors_ or find them on facebook or other places these authors hang out and chat. 
From the advice I've seen lately, $2.99 is still ok for erotic shorts. Look at the erotic charts, find books similar to the one you are writing and see what those books are priced at.


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## EverynKildare (Jun 8, 2014)

Wow. My serial on my other pen name (some called it erotica - some didn't *shrug*) hasn't sold a copy since 2015. I don't advertise it anymore though, and haven't added a new episode in just as long, since no one was reading them. A lot of others who started serials when I did all dropped theirs and moved on around KU2. (I'd actually like to keep doing mine, they were fun, but not worth the time sink they took out of my novels allotted editing schedule).
*sigh* Maybe one day they'll be viable again.


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## Paranormal Kitty (Jun 13, 2017)

Chuck Tingle is probably the best erotica writer out there. He's done mostly shorts, but also some novels.


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## BellaJames (Sep 8, 2016)

TonyD said:


> Hi all. While I wait for my beta readers for my novel, I'm writing a humorous erotica story called "[expletive]ar The Barbarian."
> 
> I'm wondering how long a serial series should be. Like you sell the first one for 99cents, the next for $2.99, etc? And then how many words should they be. *I'm hoping the humor and graphic sex and violence will make them addictive.*


I can only speak for myself. With short erotica, it has to fulfil my fantasy and entertain me fast. It can have lots of graphic sex, or violence if you're into that but if it doesn't entertain and satisfy my urge then I'm going to be disappointed.

There is a thread on _reddit erotica authors _titled '[Dataporn] First month writing erotica', I would read the advice on there. This author has sold well right out of the gate.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Laura Kelley said:


> Chuck Tingle is probably the best erotica writer out there. He's done mostly shorts, but also some novels.


His stuff is hilarious but it's what I'd call porn.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Dolphin said:


> Well, are the $0.99 erotica success stories selling at least six times better than their $2.99 competitors?
> 
> I'll certainly acknowledge that I'm not an expert here, either way. Most of the folks who are fled KBoards long ago. You might want to seek them out in their new communities, OP.


My understanding is that most erotica authors are saying "erotica is dead, move into romance," which is why the romance charts are flooded with erotica with HEAs. Annoying as an author and as a reader. I understand why people categorize in romance. Being in erotica really hurts your visibility (I've had a book moved there bc of what I thought was an innocuous keyword). But it's still really annoying. I wish Amazon would fix their category system.


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## GettingCozy (Jul 12, 2017)

And I'll add that humorous erotica is a tough sell. SUPER fun to write, so if that's your game, go for it. But, in general, people who actually want erotica are not after the laughs. I wrote on a group pen dedicated to smart, funny erotica and while we got the occasional "can you believe this?!" flurry of downloads/sales, on the whole it didn't do nearly as well as my straight up wank fic.

Chuck Tingle is a national treasure of course, so if you can get a piece of that action, more power to you!

(fwiw, I've moved on to a new name, writing cozy mystery, but still think "I should write more on the ol' porn name" because that steady [if small]trickle of cash is lovely)


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## yeababygetit (Sep 21, 2017)

> Years ago, I published five short erotica stories (2.5K to 4K words), priced them each at $2.99 and they're still selling today. I haven't released anymore of them in a while and sales have definitely slowed, but if I would have kept at it, Releasing one a week, I'd probably be loaded with cash right now. As I'm typing this, I'm considering also relaunching that pen name lol.
> 
> I would literally write them in 1-2 hours, spend 15 minutes editing them, and about a half hour to create the covers. Total investment time for each short was between 2-4 hours (I'd estimate about 15 hours tops for all five stories). Each one has sold around 250 copies at full price, which is actually more than a few of my full length novels.
> 
> Yeah, I just basically talked myself back into writing erotic shorts...


People get so used to writing longer works, they forget what erotica is for - to get people off! Of course, a good story is always a good thing, but with erotica, the story should only accentuate the sex, not the other way around. If what you're writing has the sex accentuating the story, then you're writing more for the erom crowd which differs for an erotica reader and what they're after. Yes, 3k - 5k word erotica will still sell at $2.99 (speaking from experience). BTW, this does include a good story and plot, but only to accentuate the sex itself.

I don't consider myself an expert, but I do get the point of erotica as a genre and its distinction from erotic romance and romance. Hope this helps.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Erotica shorts can sell extremely well, depending on the subniche. I recently found a tiny little niche where I can put out 20 pages for 2.99 and people snap them up. They're not blazing the top 100 charts, but they are consistent.

40 pages 3.99? Yep, consistent sales.

Now a series in erotica can be good, can be bad. If you're making yourself humorous... I do know some serial erotica authors getting bad reviews from readers who think erotica serials are overdone, cliche, and a ripoff. Can't please everyone.

However, the shorter each chapter in the series, the more likely you're going to anger the readers. Just saying.

Otherwise, erotic novellas are super money-makers.


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## ibizwiz (Dec 25, 2014)

yeababygetit said:


> People get so used to writing longer works, they forget what erotica is for - to get people off! Of course, a good story is always a good thing, but with erotica, the story should only accentuate the sex, not the other way around. If what you're writing has the sex accentuating the story, then you're writing more for the erom crowd which differs for an erotica reader and what they're after. Yes, 3k - 5k word erotica will still sell at $2.99 (speaking from experience). BTW, this does include a good story and plot, but only to accentuate the sex itself.


To the contrary, in the compelling stories about real adults living realistically portrayed, sexually active lives, the sex complements and amplifies the story.

Real erotica requires building to the moment, and that means time, and that means a story arc with something more substantive than a fake-yuppie billionaire's fantasy abs in the moonlight.

Mind, I've nothing against wanker-lit, or to making $$ by getting readers off; I simply object to misleading the readers by calling it erotic.

Confusing readers about what erotica actually is is Amazon's and the porn industry's collective fault. They've set the cat and keyword boundaries, so there's no point arguing genre definitions here.

But the notion that if one wants to write explicit sex, and is not writing "get 'em off fast" shorts, then one MUST write "erotic romance" or LGBT romance is, um, short-sighted. As if there were only three pigeonholes for explicit sex in all fiction!

I write "realistic erotica" targeted at intelligent girls and women, and the men who enjoy being with them. The lengths are long novella to mid-sized full novels. They take place in our real, totally f'd up early 21st century, not in the gloom of time or fantasy universes. The sex is at once romantic, occasionally extreme, and often comic. My works have many "romantic" elements, and even some HFN endings, but these books are NOT for romance readers, even the EROM readers! Would love their cash, sure, but not their angry reviews!

After publishing six "realistic erotica" novellas and one novellette teaser in Amazon, I realized that while, as C. Gold says above, sex sells, it's not easy to sell the real deal erotica in Amazon. What I define as "realistic erotica" is not an AZ genre, nor do I expect it ever will be.

But I don't care. I'm writing to a specific audience segment, not "to market", so I'd rather inform the reader what to expect than adhere to the currently hot mass-pop categories.

If selling sex is the oldest profession, then "erotica" is the oldest literary and artistic genre, no matter what Amazon says. I know that around the world there are millions of readers for the real thing, including all the forms of sexual interaction. My problem, along with any other author who wants to tell stories of the heart at its deepest and darkest sensual depth is to reach these readers. Only a small proportion of them are in KU, so our problem is to create channels to reach them, channels beyond the control of Amazon and the other platform operators.


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## lyndabelle (Feb 26, 2015)

I started writing erotica back in KU1 had just a few months to go. I was following what was selling, shorter serials, and was starting to make bank. Those shorter stories were 3k-5k. There wasn't a lot of character development, but meant of course, to get you off.

But then, KU2 happened, and that has changed how I write stories, since they need to be longer to get paid for the pages. So, now my stories are 10k-15k, really getting into short novella lengths. Some of my stuff is more erom, with only a 50%/50% split of story and sexy scenes too. The short and quick erotica just wasn't working in KU as much anymore. 

But I think it also has to do whether men or women are reading it. Women like more emotion, and guys like more graphic description. Just saying. I now have a guy beta reader and a woman beta reader for that reason. And my stories go through more eyeballs before published. So, KU2 has really changed my writing process and length.

I've written from fantasy, historical to contemporary. I get comments to that I write "Smut" to hot, sexy stories. It really is weird how people are all over the place. But maybe it's just who gets a hold of it, esp. when I do free promos. My latest exhibitionist series story I've been working on for almost a year. I seem to be putting more effort into my stories. The days of writing a quick story, etc. seem to be gone. People are expecting more. More character development, more editing, cover design, everything. But in reality, with KU2, I get about $0.25-$-0.40 a story right now. I have my serials priced at $2.99 each, with sometimes the first at $0.99 to funnel. 

With my other pen names, and I have two others each for two other genres, this one still makes more money overall. So, yes, it still sells, but I found you have to write longer stories to make money. Of course, you could always go wide and not in KU, but being noticed goes way down. And serials are still really good. I've been bundling them into Omnibus editions, and have print editions I can sell as well. Plus, I did manage to do one audiobook, but it didn't seem to do well. So, live and learn.


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## yeababygetit (Sep 21, 2017)

ibizwiz said:


> Real erotica requires building to the moment, and that means time, and that means a story arc with something more substantive than a fake-yuppie billionaire's fantasy abs in the moonlight.
> 
> Mind, I've nothing against wanker-lit, or to making $$ by getting readers off; I simply object to misleading the readers by calling it erotic.


With all due respect, what's real to you isn't always what someone else wants or considers as the only way erotica should be. Let me ask you this: Is the person who likes their experience to gradually build up to their release any more valid than the person who likes theirs straight to the point? No, nor vice versa. We all like it how we like it, but I understand your disposition.



ibizwiz said:


> But the notion that if one wants to write explicit sex, and is not writing "get 'em off fast" shorts, then one MUST write "erotic romance" or LGBT romance is, um, short-sighted. As if there were only three pigeonholes for explicit sex in all fiction!


I intentionally structured my earlier comment in that way, not to proclaim that all longer erotic works should take the erotic romance route, I apologize if it seems that way. Yet, I found it significant to mention that erotica doesn't have to be longer and drawn out, which brings us back to the question I asked above.

Also, I specifically structured the comment as defense to those who pride themselves in the succinctness of shorter works. Why? Ive come across threads, articles, etc. where writers can have a tendency, even subtly, to frown upon shorter works as if shorter works are lacking in creativity and effort. I'm not saying that this is you or anyone in this particular thread. However, this is the case and in my opinion for two key reasons.

1. If I'm correct about the timing, somewhere in the 70s and 80s, shorter works became less profitable for major publishers as they found more and more ways to gain from the longer literary material. This made longer works more of a lucrative business for authors/writers, which has lasted for years. Now, there are ebooks and self-publishing. It's actually more of a feasibility to profit from shorter works again, but the mindset of there being no substance in it still lingers.

2. The KU1 catastrophe, where certain individuals and/or groups utilized shorter works to not only manipulate a payment system, but add to the lack of confidence in shorter works.

My point: Just because something is short doesn't mean it's lacking in substance. I'm sure you know this, but that was the point I was making earlier. To construct a shorter work that makes sense, is consistent and holds the reader's attention takes talent.



ibizwiz said:


> What I define as "realistic erotica" is not an AZ genre, nor do I expect it ever will be.
> 
> But I don't care. I'm writing to a specific audience segment, not "to market", so I'd rather inform the reader what to expect than adhere to the currently hot mass-pop categories.


To support your point, I find it frustrating searching the top 100 of a sub category in the erotica genre and find more titles that have nothing to do with that sub than any that do, yet their keywords and placement in KU have them there for all to see. We want what we want and not much of anything else will do.

In closing this point, I do feel that erotica itself is more than a word count and grouping of keywords. Hence, my emphasis on a good story and not just writing to market as you mentioned before. Erotica is a culture that has many ways of expressing itself. Those of us who write it and read it should feel free enough to welcome the solace of its embrace however we see fit, whether we like it straight to the point, or more of a smooth and gradual build, we're not confusing our readers with either as we all know what we want and how we like it.


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## yeababygetit (Sep 21, 2017)

lyndabelle said:


> But then, KU2 happened.....The short and quick erotica just wasn't working in KU as much anymore.


That's a good point to consider and arouses the question, should we write erotica for KU or should we write erotica for direct sells?

Each author has to answer this question regardful of their own writing style and personal preferences. Exploring both options may be strategic.


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## Dpock (Oct 31, 2016)

C. Gold said:


> _A Wedding to Remember_, is 24,500 words/106 pages. That's probably at the high end of length for a typical serial episode, but that's about as short as I'm willing to go.


So, 106-page romances are legit if part of a serial/series?


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Dpock said:


> So, 106-page romances are legit if part of a serial/series?


I have a series that does almost exactly that, though it isn't exactly erotica (I primarily write erotica). There's a massive storyline behind it with several subplots along the way. I ended up putting them in Action Adventure rather than erotica, though the sex scenes were pretty spicy.

Each book came in around 110 pages and I wrote 4 of them.


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## ibizwiz (Dec 25, 2014)

Though you direct your comment at me, I can't reference what you say since none of it actually addresses what I said. At no point did I say what erotica was for a person. Nor what it "should be", which would an absurdly dumb thing to say. I merely summarized the commonly accepted understanding among professionals of (sexually explicit) literature. If you have an issue with that, take it up with the professors, and of course the commonly recognized greats of erotic writing. Nabokov, Laclos, the Marquise de Sade all showed us the way.

Nor did I say writing porn shorts to get readers off in a few thousand words is in any way illegitimate, inferior, distasteful or lacking in required talent. Nor did I infer that writing short stories is somehow unworthy, or, as you put it, lacking in substance.

You say you are defending the shorts writers, but it's certainly not from me.

Since I write big stories over series from 150K to 250K, and expect the reader to opt-in to several follow-on sersies over time, my objectives are clearly different than one who writes get-'em off shorts.

I analyze what is going on in our tiny region of the popocracy so my work can find its niche(s) and compete. I am involved with numerous writers of so-called erotic shorts, in the group where they hang out, and they have kindly taught me much about this difficult market we compete in.

That's analysis, yeababygetit, not an attack.

The OP was asking about this genre, so I offered what may hopefully help him find his way.

hmmv.


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## yeababygetit (Sep 21, 2017)

ibizwiz said:


> Since I write big stories over series from 150K to 250K, and expect the reader to opt-in to several follow-on sersies over time, my objectives are clearly different than one who writes get-'em off shorts.


Despite your having a seemingly negative tone against shorts (if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I own being wrong), I actually made the same point in my response to you. However, I validated both approaches as there are readers who require and demand both given their affinities. I'm sure your analysis shows you this as well.

Also, I wasn't directing anything at you for the sake of singling you out. I was merely responding to your quoting and commenting on something I said about word count. Peace, and may you be successful with all your literary works.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Not to say that long erotica works don't sell, but my niche doesn't like them.

Everything is so very dependent on niche and customer base expectations.


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## Dpock (Oct 31, 2016)

Laran Mithras said:


> I have a series that does almost exactly that, though it isn't exactly erotica (I primarily write erotica). There's a massive storyline behind it with several subplots along the way. I ended up putting them in Action Adventure rather than erotica, though the sex scenes were pretty spicy.
> 
> Each book came in around 110 pages and I wrote 4 of them.


Can a series be a series if the protagonists change in each book (the "series" being the stories all take place in the same locale or have a common situational basis, like offices)?


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## ibizwiz (Dec 25, 2014)

Laran Mithras said:


> Not to say that long erotica works don't sell, but my niche doesn't like them.
> 
> Everything is so very dependent on niche and customer base expectations.


I saw when I set out to be a Self Published author that Laran is correct. I've developed a search engine, in my prior life, and been a marketer for nearly fifty years. I'm also a reader of erotic literature for, who can explain it, half a century. I was also an Amazon merchant since 2004, and saw that their game with us writing bots is to build traffic for the grand Bezos enterprise.

I have a small number of things I want to write about, none of them of appeal to any Amazon-defined genre mass-market. After a few fits and starts, I took 2016 off to fight Agent Orange, thinking every day how to do this. Not conquer any of the popular genres, but co-exist with them and the Zon machine.

Laran is right: to sell the stories I can and want to write, I have to define an audience FB and similar platform algos can target for me, then use the many tools we have to engage those folks and aggregate a niche my characters could dominate.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

Dpock said:


> Can a series be a series if the protagonists change in each book (the "series" being the stories all take place in the same locale or have a common situational basis, like offices)?


Absolutely. Although I didn't do it in mine, many authors do a "series" where the MCs change. For example. a shifter pack romance. Each book is about a different shifter in the clan. They'll call the series "Alpha Ranch Shifters" and name each book "Derek" Buck" "Steel" "Rod" "Missile" "Snake" (basically any euphemism for a male part). 

That's delivered tongue in cheek with no insult intended. Those books sell very well.


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