# WTF***ery? KDP takes down 4 titles in 1 week! Go 'zon!



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

So, some of you may know who I am. If not, quick intro:

I started in 2011 as an indie author, walked away from trad pubbing. It wasn't my thing. Long story short, break out book hit the NYT list after sleeping for 9 months, then I had a novel hit the top 100 of amazon and stay there for over 100 days. I've sold over 10 million copies and work 100+ hours a week. Writers work their asses off. 

Recently, KDP decided to pull my books from 2013. I'm well known with a KDP rep and filed my copyright papers. No one asked for them--they simply pulled my titles with no notice. 4 times.

I'm willing to say the first three could have been a glitch. Book 4? Unlikely. Will more follow? Probably? 

I got no response from my rep or from amazon saying why it happened. 

I posted this on FB:


Dear Fans, 

Amazon pulled 4 of my titles this week because they didn't believe I was me. Yup, that's right--even Facebook was able to verify that. You'd think with, I don't know, social security numbers and banking info that it'd be clear I was me, but alas--they want proof.

So I log into my email saying that my book has been pulled from sale on Amazon, despite the fact that I own the copyright, they know I'm me (for taxes), and I asked them to research this 'problem.'

I played nice and thought the first three times was a glitch, because I received no warning, no notice--nothing--before my book was scrubbed from their site.

The copyright is public record. They could have found it or requested it long before now! 

The book that was removed tonight was THE ARRANGEMENT 7. If you have any love for me, Sean Ferro, or authors--tell Amazon/  Amazon Kindle that this is NOT a good way to treat their authors. Tell them that they shouldn't treat new writers this way--they shouldn't treat anyone this way! ...

This post will probably kick me in the ass. No one speaks out against Amazon. Ever. In all honesty, in the past I couldn't find a bad thing to say about them if I wanted to, but over the past few months--holy crap.

-----

That sums it up, but wait! There's more!

Have you heard of authors being extorted by people? It's the newest thing and Anazon's policy works right into these peoples evil hands. The word on the street is this: a writer gets their book put in amazon copyright jail. It can perish there (I'm sure you've heard the tales), and suddenly there's a message from an evil citizen asking for money. They say they can lift the copyright infringement claim if you send them $X today. 

What the heck is going on? 

I'm serious in saying there was a time KDP did nothing wrong. I was a nobody with no rep. I earned enough money to feed my family and pay my bills. I worked my ass off and they watched out for their writers in a way that NY publishers never could.

Amazon people reading this post--why did you toss that away? You had hundreds of thousands of writers praising you. Now we have this.


----------



## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

As with many large businesses, they get so large and stick their fingers in so many pies that they forget to take care of the core business that got them started. If any of their competitors in the ebook/self-pub business had their act together ... but, alas ...


----------



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

A fan brought up this point:

The German edition is still available. It was sold to Amazon Crossing. They already have signed paper work saying I own the rights. #asselbowproblems


----------



## Stephanie Marks (Feb 16, 2015)

Hello HM, sorry, I've not much to add except to say that I'm sorry you're finding yourself going through this right now. But also, thank you for letting us know. I think that it's good for writers to see some of the really shady things Amazon does not only to the small guys but the massive names too, otherwise we get scary complacent. 

I hope that your situation gets sorted quickly. Nice to see you around here, sorry it's for something so completely cr*p.


----------



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Stephanie Marks said:


> Hello HM, sorry, I've not much to add except to say that I'm sorry you're finding yourself going through this right now. But also, thank you for letting us know. I think that it's good for writers to see some of the really shady things Amazon does not only to the small guys but the massive names too, otherwise we get scary complacent.
> 
> I hope that your situation gets sorted quickly. Nice to see you around here, sorry it's for something so completely cr*p.


Thank you! Not sure what's up with them or what's up. If I figure out what triggered this, I'll let you guys know. It's not fun.


----------



## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Stephanie Marks said:


> Hello HM, sorry, I've not much to add except to say that I'm sorry you're finding yourself going through this right now. But also, thank you for letting us know. I think that it's good for writers to see some of the really shady things Amazon does not only to the small guys but the massive names too, otherwise we get scary complacent.
> 
> I hope that your situation gets sorted quickly. Nice to see you around here, sorry it's for something so completely cr*p.


Hear! Hear!


----------



## Stephanie Marks (Feb 16, 2015)

Oh! Btw, I watched your webinar that you put in for the massive online writers convention earlier this year. The one out of London... ummm... Oh, IndieRecon! Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed it. I like your Golden Trifecta imagery.


----------



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Stephanie Marks said:


> Oh! Btw, I watched your webinar that you put in for the massive online writers convention earlier this year. The one out of London... ummm... Oh, IndieRecon! Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed it. I like your Golden Trifecta imagery.


Thanks! More of those are coming.  And they're free! Wahoo!


----------



## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Holly, maybe you should send an email straight to Jeff. Seriously. You have the clout.


----------



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Holly, maybe you should send an email straight to Jeff. Seriously. You have the clout.


What are the odds that it's [email protected]?


----------



## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> What are the odds that it's [email protected]?


100%. Good luck! I hope you get it resolved permanently.


----------



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

Nathan Elliott said:


> 100%. Good luck! I hope you get it resolved permanently.


Thanks!


----------



## Gator (Sep 28, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> Amazon pulled 4 of my titles this week because they didn't believe I was me. Yup, that's right--even Facebook was able to verify that. You'd think with, I don't know, social security numbers and banking info that it'd be clear I was me, but alas--they want proof.
> 
> So I log into my email saying that my book has been pulled from sale on Amazon, despite the fact that I own the copyright, they know I'm me (for taxes), and I asked them to research this 'problem.'
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you, Holly. I think you're being targetted either by an extortionist or a jealous scumbag. Amazon is required by law to remove books from sale when a DMCA takedown notice is received. In your case, it's obviously not credible, but the procedures are already in place for DMCA takedown notices, and the scumbag knows your book will be out of commission for days or weeks while you and Amazon deal with the situation.

If it's an extortionist, you'll eventually get a message asking for money to stop this madness. If it's a jealous scumbag, you'll never get that message. They'll just keep doing it over and over again until someone stops them.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Mar 29, 2014)

So, let me get this straight. If I send one of those DMCA notices to Amazon, claiming that I hold the copyright to, say, The Stand by Stephen King, they would remove King's book, no questions asked?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Holly, dunno if you heard about my copyright scam earlier this year, but writing to Jeff Bezos is what fixed it. Then again, all that really did was put me in touch with Executive Customer Relations. Since you have a rep, you're already in contact with that level of the company. Writing to Bezos should not be necessary to get their attention.

Have you filed a proper DMCA counter-notification with Amazon? That's essential. Essential, but unfortunately, not a guarantee.

The DMCA does require Amazon take down a book upon receiving a notice of copyright infringement. A DMCA notice is not something Amazon can choose to ignore -- not without substantial legal risk. (Of course, if the notifier is a scammer, that risk will never come to anything.)

But once an author files a DMCA counter-notification, Amazon then has room for choice. It could 1) restore the book automatically, until such time as the notifier obtains a court ruling against the counter-notifier, or 2) take a look at the situation and restore the book if the counter-notifier seems to be in the right. As I understand it, the DMCA provides safe harbor for either one of these reactions: Amazon could do either one of these things with zero legal risk. But -- and this is key -- the DMCA does not _require _a site to restore notified-against material upon receiving counter-notification.

Unfortunately, Amazon has so far chosen to ignore DMCA counter-notifications in favor of telling the two parties to work things out on their own. It's a recipe for disaster.

That said, I'm shocked that this has happened to someone of your stature. The scammers are fools to target major authors.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

H.M. Ward said:


> No it wasn't. That was the we are taking down your book email. In the top they referenced another email that was never sent. At least I didnt get one. You'd think warning for 4 titles would be noticed, if they were sent...


Did you not receive mails like the one the other author got in the other thread (referenced above) where you're also commenting, Holly? Because the way you state it in the OP -- that they're asking for proof you're you -- it doesn't sound at all like an extortion scheme like Becca was a target of. It sounds like you overlooked or simply decided you didn't need to respond to the emails they sent to you.

I've gotten and dealt with a gajillion of those copyright verifications since I've published over 100 books by 4 authors with multiple publishers and multiple versions of everything they've done, as well as 36 box sets with anywhere from 5 to 10 authors per set. For the boxes, I forward the Letters of Agreement, and for everything else, I send along an email as requested within the time frame asked. It's a minor hassle to search for and forward the LoAs, but the other verifications take all of 1 minute to respond to. Fail to respond and the bots pull the books, I would imagine. I haven't not responded to find out.

I'm confused as to what kind of correspondence you received. It *sounds* like the same verification emails I've been getting for years. Are you packaging your books into boxes--your own or others? That's often a trigger. And it's bots handling this for the most part. And random. I've had box sets sail through with no verification required until I made a change to the price or metadata, then BAM, there's the verification request after the title's been up for weeks or months. Then when the box authors make changes to their single titles that might have been up for years, they'll willy-nilly get emails too. I've even had boxes targeted multiple times.

Do you not have a phone number to call KDP? I mean even *I* have been given a number to call. Otherwise, what's your rep doing?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Kylo Ren said:


> So, let me get this straight. If I send one of those DMCA notices to Amazon, claiming that I hold the copyright to, say, The Stand by Stephen King, they would remove King's book, no questions asked?


According to my understanding, yes, that's what the law would require them to do. In actuality, of course they'd ignore it.

In all honesty, I would've thought Holly would've achieved "couldn't happen to her" status as well.

The main difference, I'm guess, is that King's works are not handled by KDP reps, who seem unempowered to do anything besides react in rigidly scripted ways. The people in other parts of the company have the autonomy to stop and think, "Wait a minute ..."

P.S. Don't test out the King thing, Kylo. False DMCAs = perjury.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Mar 29, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> P.S. Don't test out the King thing, Kylo. False DMCAs = perjury.


Obvi, hypothetical.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Kylo Ren said:


> Obvi, hypothetical.


Yeah. But as I read your post, a little devil was whispering "Do it! Just to see what'd happen!" in my ear.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

PhoenixS said:


> Did you not receive mails like the one the other author got in the other thread (referenced above) where you're also commenting, Holly? Because the way you state it in the OP -- that they're asking for proof you're you -- it doesn't sound at all like an extortion scheme like Becca was a target of. It sounds like you overlooked or simply decided you didn't need to respond to the emails they sent to you.


She says she "received no warning, no notice--nothing." That said, it's worth mentioning that the notification KDP sent me when _Nolander _was taken down did land in my spam folder.


----------



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Kylo Ren said:


> Obvi, hypothetical.


If these blackmailing scams get more common, then hitting a few big trad names would probably trigger a close look at procedures.


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

Isn't extorsion a major crime you could report to the FBI or something?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkarNights said:


> Isn't extorsion a major crime you could report to the FBI or something?


You can report it, but the FBI cannot reach across the world to pluck a nameless two-bit crook out of who knows where.


----------



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> You can report it, but the FBI cannot reach across the world to pluck a nameless two-bit crook out of who knows where.


But maybe an FBI involvement might make Amazon see the light of producing a more predictable and easier solution for authors than trying to reach Jeff Bezos. If they reinstated books just as fast on getting DMCA counter-notifications as they pull books on DMCA-notices this racket would stop soon.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Becca Mills said:


> She says she "received no warning, no notice--nothing." That said, it's worth mentioning that the notification KDP sent me when _Nolander _was taken down did land in my spam folder.


If the books weren't pulled down in the Great Keywords Cleanse that just hit a bunch of folk -- several bestsellers, too, that I personally know who got hit -- then, because Holly is saying it's over copyright, there are two likely reasons that might happen. 1) A DMCA notice was filed. But she's not saying the emails said anything about a DMCA. When your book got tagged, the email in your spam folder was clear on that count, wasn't it, IIRC? So, 2) it's most likely a rights verification thing. If it wasn't a DMCA notice, then why on earth would Amazon willy-nilly pull down not just *a* book, but 4? There's no precedent for that -- at least none I've been privy to. But there is tons of precedent for rights verification mails being sent out with a 5-day deadline. It's certainly possible those mails wound up in spam. I'm simply suggesting there was effort made on Amazon's part to contact her. Because I've not failed to receive the over 50 or so of them I've been sent.

If someone targeted her books, Amazon wouldn't be coy about saying that's what happened, right? They weren't coy with you. But it *feels* like Holly is being coy with us, bringing extortion into the conversation when it doesn't seem Amazon is saying it was a DMCA thing at all.

So, I'll ask right out: Holly, what did the emails you receive notifying you the books had been taken down actually say?


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> You can report it, but the FBI cannot reach across the world to pluck a nameless two-bit crook out of who knows where.


But, if you are contacted and they demand money. 1) The email they send could be traceable. 2) They have to have you send the money somewhere, that is traceable, unless it's some offshore account in the Cayman Islands? Shouldn't something be done with the evidence that is there?

Also, couldn't you just send the email to Amazon and say "Hey look Jeffy, EXTORSION! Fix it!"? Amazon can't be that daft as to just ignore clear evidence of a crime against you can they?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

PhoenixS said:


> If the books weren't pulled down in the Great Keywords Cleanse that just hit a bunch of folk -- several bestsellers, too, that I personally know who got hit -- then, because Holly is saying it's over copyright, there are two likely reasons that might happen. 1) A DMCA notice was filed. But she's not saying the emails said anything about a DMCA. When your book got tagged, the email in your spam folder was clear on that count, wasn't it, IIRC? So, 2) it's most likely a rights verification thing. If it wasn't a DMCA notice, then why on earth would Amazon willy-nilly pull down not just *a* book, but 4? There's no precedent for that -- at least none I've been privy to. But there is tons of precedent for rights verification mails being sent out with a 5-day deadline. It's certainly possible those mails wound up in spam. I'm simply suggesting there was effort made on Amazon's part to contact her. Because I've not failed to receive the over 50 or so of them I've been sent.
> 
> If someone targeted her books, Amazon wouldn't be coy about saying that's what happened, right? They weren't coy with you. But it *feels* like Holly is being coy with us, bringing extortion into the conversation when it doesn't seem Amazon is saying it was a DMCA thing at all.
> 
> So, I'll ask right out: Holly, what did the emails you receive notifying you the books had been taken down actually say?


The email I got from KDP was extremely short. Like, a sentence or two. I didn't really understand it meant when I first got it. It didn't say that a DMCA notice had been filed, or give the name/contact info of the person who'd made the claim, or give any specifics at all. Working from memory, it was something like, "Your book Nolander [ASIN] has been blocked due to disputed copyright. You and the other party must both contact KDP with written permission for the book to be restored." And that was it. If I hadn't gotten a more detailed email from Smashwords soon after, I would've been at a loss as to what was going on.

But yeah, it was clearly different from the run-of-the-mill "Is this really your book?" email baldricko quoted in that other thread.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkarNights said:


> But, if you are contacted and they demand money. 1) The email they send could be traceable. 2) They have to have you send the money somewhere, that is traceable, unless it's some offshore account in the Cayman Islands? Shouldn't something be done with the evidence that is there?
> 
> Also, couldn't you just send the email to Amazon and say "Hey look Jeffy, EXTORSION! Fix it!"? Amazon can't be that daft as to just ignore clear evidence of a crime against you can they?


That is, in effect, what I did, and Amazon did fix it. But I was able to connect the name of the person who contacted me offering help to the email address from which the DMCA notification had been filed. The case wouldn't have been nearly so clear-cut if I hadn't been able to make that link.

I wish the FBI were willing to work with the Mumbai police to arrest and extradite someone who's blackmailing an American author for $200, or whatever the sum would've been, but I think the chances of that are hovering right around zero. That's why these scams pose such a threat and why Amazon and the other retailers really MUST step into the breach and help. The safe-harbor provisions are built into the DMCA to prevent this sort of thing, but if a company refuses to use the safe harbor, the law can be abused grossly.


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> That is, in effect, what I did, and Amazon did fix it. But I was able to connect the name of the person who contacted me offering help to the email address from which the DMCA notification had been filed. The case wouldn't have been nearly so clear-cut if I hadn't been able to make that link.
> 
> I wish the FBI were willing to work with the Mumbai police to arrest and extradite someone who's blackmailing an American author for $200, or whatever the sum would've been, but I think the chances of that are hovering right around zero. That's why these scams pose such a threat and why Amazon and the other retailers really MUST step into the breach and help. The safe-harbor provisions are built into the DMCA to prevent this sort of thing, but if a company refuses to use the safe harbor, the law can be abused grossly.


Ok, now I wonder who will be the first to write a novel about an author who snaps and travels to Mumbai to exact some vigilanti justice?


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

What I fear whenever I see this sort of thing is that it will happen to me. I'm a non US citizen and hence have no rights. Over here, we don't have a proper certification thing for copyright. We have the British Library and 5 copyright "offices" that hold copies of our paper books, but we don't get a reg number or certificate. When asked "You don't need it, you wrote it, you own it."

I'm told I could register in the US, but as Becca said, the good guy AND the bad guy have to come to "terms" and email KDP to say it's sorted. What BS is that?

If anyone needs yet another reason to NOT be exclusive with anyone, let alone Amazon, this bollocks has go to be it.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> What I fear whenever I see this sort of thing is that it will happen to me. I'm a non US citizen and hence have no rights. Over here, we don't have a proper certification thing for copyright. We have the British Library and 5 copyright "offices" that hold copies of our paper books, but we don't get a reg number or certificate. When asked "You don't need it, you wrote it, you own it."
> 
> I'm told I could register in the US, but as Becca said, the good guy AND the bad guy have to come to "terms" and email KDP to say it's sorted. What BS is that?
> 
> If anyone needs yet another reason to NOT be exclusive with anyone, let alone Amazon, this bollocks has go to be it.


Well, actually, you should blame the U.S. Congress and not Amazon for the BS. There are certain "safe harbors" that service providers are afforded under the Act. And certain steps that Amazon is required -- by law -- to take. Here's a nice quasi-layman's breakdown of the provider's pertinent responsibilities in regard to Notice and Take-down:
http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise34.html

*ETA: Bear in mind that there is no evidence that Holly's issue has to do with any DMCA infringement claims. This, right now, is a SIDE DISCUSSION to the OP's issue.*


----------



## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

That really sucks, Holly.  

I hope you are able to sort it out A.S.A.P. and that Amazon changes their policies to clamp down on the people who do this kind of rubbish.  It's crazy, and yes, a very good reason not to go exclusive!


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Holly, that is frustrating and scary, especially as it affects your income. I hope there is a simple explanation that an email to Jeff Bezos will sort out. Sending you virtual hugs


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Holly, maybe you should send an email straight to Jeff. Seriously. You have the clout.


First thought too!
I work with a former Amazon employee (higher up) and Jeff is known to read all of his email.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Holly,

sorry to hear about this.  Hopefully it's one of the run of the mill notices that others have received and quickly resolved.

Betsy


----------



## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

I think it might just be the recent keywords thing, lots of titles taken down willy-nilly and the OP is jumping to conclusions that it's a copyright thing? Hard to tell without knowing what the accompanying email contained.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2015)

This is absolutely disgraceful. They shouldn't be pulling titles unless they are 100 percent certain that there is plagiarism / breach.

You have to wonder about who is making these decisions. If this is the level of respect / professionalism Amazon deals with one of their most successful indie authors, it speaks volumes to the vulnerability of every author publishing with them.


----------



## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

It would help a great deal of you could say what the Amazon emails say specifically or if you have any at all, if not check your spam folder. It could be a copyright troll or not.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> This is absolutely disgraceful. They shouldn't be pulling titles unless they are 100 percent certain that there is plagiarism / breach.
> 
> You have to wonder about who is making these decisions. If this is the level of respect / professionalism Amazon deals with one of their most successful indie authors, it speaks volumes to the vulnerability of every author publishing with them.


The DMCA requires them to pull the title. There's really no way around that. The wiggle room the DMCA affords comes after counter-notification. That's when Amazon could safely restore the title.



Mark E. Cooper said:


> What I fear whenever I see this sort of thing is that it will happen to me. I'm a non US citizen and hence have no rights. Over here, we don't have a proper certification thing for copyright. We have the British Library and 5 copyright "offices" that hold copies of our paper books, but we don't get a reg number or certificate. When asked "You don't need it, you wrote it, you own it."
> 
> I'm told I could register in the US, but as Becca said, the good guy AND the bad guy have to come to "terms" and email KDP to say it's sorted. What BS is that?
> 
> If anyone needs yet another reason to NOT be exclusive with anyone, let alone Amazon, this bollocks has go to be it.


Mark, you can register your copyright here in the U.S. Your citizenship doesn't matter.

As I discovered, holding official copyright is not enough, on its own, to make Amazon put your book back up. But my copyright papers were in the packet of materials I sent to the [email protected] address. It may well have had an impact.


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

The KDP contract is two way flexible in that you can pull your books at any time, and Amazon can reject any book at its discretion, for any reason, and it doesn't have duration. They can also terminate the contract with you at any time, at their discretion.  The ACX contract is a lot different as it is fixed term (seven years followed by annual renewal) and once your title is in their system you can't (easily) pull it out or re-price it. So far I've never heard of anyone's ACX title being pulled. They (ACX) can still pull the title but it's a lot bigger deal because they also are an aggregator to iTunes.

So yes this is a raw deal and is being abused by scammers, but it also shows how vulnerable anyone is who uses KDP because the contract is pretty weak. There's been lots of music lawsuits on copyright infringement, but the titles don't get pulled as I understand it. The two parties duke it out in court and those disputes often take many years to resolve.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> The DMCA requires them to pull the title. There's really no way around that. The wiggle room the DMCA affords comes after counter-notification. That's when Amazon could safely restore the title.
> 
> Mark, you can register your copyright here in the U.S. Your citizenship doesn't matter.
> 
> As I discovered, holding official copyright is not enough, on its own, to make Amazon put your book back up. But my copyright papers were in the packet of materials I sent to the [email protected] address. It may well have had an impact.


So basically you're saying anyone who writes a fake email based on nothing can sabotage any author? That Amazon have no choice, but to abide by a suspicious request even when they suspect it to be from a possible scammer?

Sounds to me like someone either on Amazon's behalf, or the people in charge of these laws, needs to step in protect rights holders from the current situation that defies logic. And if people don't speak up now while it's happening to someone else, then one day it will happen to them.


----------



## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

H.M. Ward said:


> What are the odds that it's [email protected]?


LOL, yup. It truly is, I've emailed him at least three times. Always seems to get the job done!

Sorry to hear this Holly, but it's lovely to see you again. And thanks for the warning. Hugs


----------



## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> So basically you're saying anyone who writes a fake email based on nothing can sabotage any author? That Amazon have no choice, but to abide by a suspicious request even when they suspect it to be from a possible scammer?


You can thank the DMCA for that. It was pushed through Congress by IP Barons who wanted to be able to pull anything off the Internet at will.

The problem, as others have mentioned, is two-fold:

1. Amazon apply different rules to trade publishers and indies. Claiming you wrote the latest Stephen King novel won't get it pulled.
2. Amazon don't apply the DMCA properly, because the author should just be able to say 'it's my book, put it back'.

There's also a third issue with their 'we think this might be pirated but we're not going to tell you why' emails, in that they only give you five days to reply. I could go on vacation, come back, and find all my books are gone.


----------



## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Evenstar said:


> LOL, yup. It truly is, I've emailed him at least three times. Always seems to get the job done!


I think it's wonderful that you've had problems solved by emailing Jeff Bezos. You're lucky.

It is three years this month that I've had problems with KDP--novels reclassified from fiction to nonfiction, books unlinked, categories taken away, etc. Numerous emails to his office haven't ended my problems. People from Executive Customer relations have helped me, but it's usually after damage has been done. And I'm not the only one who has had serial problems with KDP. Several years ago I was told by an Amazon senior executive that a large number of authors ( I can't reveal the number he told me) are called weekly because of difficulties they've had with KDP. Bezos gets hundreds upon hundreds of emails every week from authors and customers who have had problems. I'm sure he reads a sampling of them, but he certainly wouldn't have time to read all of them and run a company as massive as Amazon. People are employed to read the emails.

Holly, I'll send you a PM.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2015)

Edward M. Grant said:


> You can thank the DMCA for that. It was pushed through Congress by IP Barons who wanted to be able to pull anything off the Internet at will.
> 
> The problem, as others have mentioned, is two-fold:
> 
> ...


I swear indie authors need a guild or union or something to protect them from this. We're all separated and that's why we have no recourse for this behavior.


----------



## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I swear indie authors need a guild or union or something to protect them from this. We're all separated and that's why we have no recourse for this behavior.


I'm pretty sure that would actually be illegal in the US. I think as suppliers we're "supposed" to be in competition with one another, not getting together to protect against the next layer between us and consumers. I think there is a Hollywood parallel story here that involved writers giving up copyrights (I guess basically doing works for hire) so that they could unionize. I think most of us would prefer to keep our copyrights and independence. Sure would be nice if Amazon would fix this, though. I don't understand why they are so slow to act on DMCA counter notices(*). You'd think it would be in their interest to get the books back up.

(*) But I am not sure whether that is the issue here with Holly's books.


----------



## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I swear indie authors need a guild or union or something to protect them from this. We're all separated and that's why we have no recourse for this behavior.


US has antitrust and labor laws all over the place that largely prohibit a union of writers. We're all small businesses / independent contractors. Members of SFWA have talked about this internally for years and there's no good solution other than to try and keep writers informed and provide assistance through the Legal Fund where appropriate.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> US has antitrust and labor laws all over the place that largely prohibit a union of writers. We're all small businesses / independent contractors. Members of SFWA have talked about this internally for years and there's no good solution other than to try and keep writers informed and provide assistance through the Legal Fund where appropriate.


That's messed up.


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Edward M. Grant said:


> in that they only give you five days to reply. I could go on vacation, come back, and find all my books are gone.


This is why I finally caved and allowed my email to come to me on my phone.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> So basically you're saying anyone who writes a fake email based on nothing can sabotage any author? That Amazon have no choice, but to abide by a suspicious request even when they suspect it to be from a possible scammer?


Yup, that's my understanding of the DMCA. In defense of the law, it can work to our advantage, too: if someone pirates your book and puts it up for sale on Amazon, you don't have to take that person to court. You just shoot off a DMCA notification, and the problem is gone. The DMCA makes defending copyright doable for indie artists because doing so is cost-free.



Edward M. Grant said:


> You can thank the DMCA for that. It was pushed through Congress by IP Barons who wanted to be able to pull anything off the Internet at will.
> 
> The problem, as others have mentioned, is two-fold:
> 
> ...


According to my understanding, Amazon is acting within the letter of the law in not restoring books after the author says, "it's my book, put it back." (That is, after the author files an official DMCA counter-notification.) The DMCA stipulates that a site _safely can _restore material following a counter-notice, but it doesn't say a site _must _restore. It's optional.

Like the notification provision of the DMCA, this reluctance to restore can work in our favor. What if Amazon automatically restored following counter-notification? Say that someone in a legally inaccessible nation pirated your work and put it up on Amazon for sale at slightly below your price. You file a DMCA notice, and Amazon takes the pirated book down. Then the pirate files a counter-notification, safe in the knowledge that you cannot sue her/him from overseas. Amazon gets the counter-notification and automatically restores the pirated version. You're screwed, right?

So, we don't really want Amazon to respond automatically to counter-notifications. Automated responses are not our friend! What we want is a thinking, trained human being to look at the situation and decide whether or not to restore the notified-against material. I think the DMCA is set up to allow this sort of considered reaction. It's good that restoration following counter-notification is permitted but not required: it allows room for consideration of particular situations.

The problem is that, rather than using the DMCA's safe harbor provision to introduce human common sense to these situations, Amazon has chosen to go with automatically ignoring counter-notifications.



ShaneJeffery said:


> Sounds to me like someone either on Amazon's behalf, or the people in charge of these laws, needs to step in protect rights holders from the current situation that defies logic. And if people don't speak up now while it's happening to someone else, then one day it will happen to them.


I think Amazon and the other retailers are going to need to invest people and money -- not a huge amount, but some -- in dealing with these disputes in-house in a more personalized way. It's just not possible to devise a copyright mechanism that can run automatically. If you err on the side of giving the publisher of the potentially offending material more power, then it becomes too difficult for small players to defend their copyrights. If you err on the side of giving the complainant more power, then it becomes too easy to run scams. The only solution is to have human eyes on each disputes.

Yeah, human eyes are expensive compared to automated processes. But not _that _expensive. A lot of these cases could be wrapped up in about five minutes. The thing that happened to me was very, very, VERY obviously not a legitimate copyright complaint (the stuff I posted about it at the time was only about a third of the evidence I submitted to Amazon). Any person who took the time to look at the situation would've known I was being scammed by someone without a legit copyright claim, and they would've known it very quickly. I think a handful of well trained people could deal with these issues at Amazon, and I think we -- indie writers -- should be worth that investment. We've earned Amazon quite a bit of money, and we're providing the backbone of KU, which is one of their entry points to the Amazon ecosystem.

We deserve help with this copyright stuff, and Amazon can use the DMCA process to provide that help while incurring NO legal risk and making a relatively minor investment.


----------



## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I swear indie authors need a guild or union or something to protect them from this. We're all separated and that's why we have no recourse for this behavior.


I agree and was shocked there wasn't one when I joined the scene. There are a massive amount of us.

I dont think anyone has ever called me 'coy' before.  I'm usually blunt. I was trying to *not* sound super pissed off last night. It must have clouded my words a little. I did not get a warning email, it was a copyright claim on books that were posted in 2013, and there was nothing in my spam folder. I checked. A verification request of copyright was sent and my books were taken down until such a time that Amazon said they could verify my account. They then said if I did it again, I'd be suspended. It was similar to what they sent Becca from the sounds of it.

As far as I know, yes, someone can file a copyright infringement. It's just strange because we just went through this with the other titles and I offered anything they wanted, including proof that I own the copyright to everything I have listed. Amazon Crossing bought the German rights from me - so an arm of Amazon is saying I'm kosher and the other arm is... confused?

I'm hoping that it's a system glitch. Things are challenging enough without stuff like this going on. Thanks all!


----------



## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

At least with legitimate businesses you can file a DMCA. I filed one with Scribd the beginning of the week for three of my books and they were down the next day. Three other overseas websites are advertising at least one of my books for free download. The one in Vietnam says I have to file the DMCA on paper with an original signature. 

It's too bad that something that works for us can be twisted to work against us. I'm thinking of a story about a pack of vigilante authors hunting down web pirates ... Considering the number of indie authors on Zon, it should have an audience.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> I agree and was shocked there wasn't one when I joined the scene. There are a massive amount of us.
> 
> I dont think anyone has ever called me 'coy' before.  I'm usually blunt. I was trying to *not* sound super p*ssed off last night. It must have clouded my words a little. I did not get a warning email, it was a copyright claim on books that were posted in 2013, and there was nothing in my spam folder. I checked. A verification request of copyright was sent and my books were taken down until such a time that Amazon said they could verify my account. They then said if I did it again, I'd be suspended. It was similar to what they sent Becca from the sounds of it.


Actually, it sounds significantly different in one respect: you're not being patted on the head and told to "go work it out" with the complainant. Instead, Amazon is saying they're wiling to look at evidence and come to a judgement themselves. If I'm understanding that correctly, it represents a very positive difference from my experience, IMO. "Positive" does not mean "not hideously frustrating," of course! But the stance they took in my dispute was so bad that any improvement is a good thing. If they're moving toward willingness to examine claims themselves, that's good.


----------



## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Just chiming in to wish you good luck on this, Holly.  Sorry to hear it happened, but hoping it gets resolved quickly for you.


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Was #7 one of the ones pulled? I'm checking and it looks like so far they are all available on Amazon here:
 H.M. Ward The Arrangement

But I do notice that the link to your series page no longer works?!  HERE Ugh. Hope they are working with you to resolve this. It's not like they never heard of you or anything.


----------



## Catchy (Mar 3, 2012)

I have ZERO knowledge of such things, but doesn't part of the A'zon contract say you can't sell or offer the book elsewhere for less money. The Arrangment Vol. 7 is posted on a really old website in its entirety, or 12 chapters of it. Not sure how long it is.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Catchy said:


> I have ZERO knowledge of such things, but doesn't part of the A'zon contract say you can't sell or offer the book elsewhere for less money. The Arrangment Vol. 7 is posted on a really old website in its entirety, or 12 chapters of it. Not sure how long it is.


Depends on whether you're in KDP *Select* or not.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Becca Mills said:


> The DMCA requires them to pull the title. There's really no way around that. The wiggle room the DMCA affords comes after counter-notification. That's when Amazon could safely restore the title.
> 
> Mark, you can register your copyright here in the U.S. Your citizenship doesn't matter.
> 
> As I discovered, holding official copyright is not enough, on its own, to make Amazon put your book back up. But my copyright papers were in the packet of materials I sent to the [email protected] address. It may well have had an impact.


I know that I can, but as you said earlier Becca, Amazon doesn't have to restore anything without agreement by both parties involved. If Jeff hadn't intervened you'd have been screwed regardless. I am reading the forms now. It seems to require two physical copies be sent, Do you know if that's right? I have 16 titles and rising.


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

I think someone needs to challenge the concept that Amazon is a service provider, particularly when in many cases they take the lion's share of royalties. The safe harbor options were intended for internet service providers or services which temporarily store files to be shared between users (such as dropbox). Amazon transforms the product you upload into a customer-tailored product for consumption and collects royalty payments. DropBox doesn't collect royalties or change your files to a proprietary format for their own proprietary device, such as Amazon does. This idea that Amazon is an ISP in this case is very farfetched.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I know that I can, but as you said earlier Becca, Amazon doesn't have to restore anything without agreement by both parties involved. If Jeff hadn't intervened you'd have been screwed regardless. I am reading the forms now. It seems to require two physical copies be sent, Do you know if that's right? I have 16 titles and rising.


If there's a physical edition at the time of registration, yeah, I think that's right. 



555aaa said:


> I think someone needs to challenge the concept that Amazon is a service provider, particularly when in many cases they take the lion's share of royalties. The safe harbor options were intended for internet service providers or services which temporarily store files to be shared between users (such as dropbox). Amazon transforms the product you upload into a customer-tailored product for consumption and collects royalty payments. DropBox doesn't collect royalties or change your files to a proprietary format for their own proprietary device, such as Amazon does. This idea that Amazon is an ISP in this case is very farfetched.


This seems like a great point to me, but I think such a case has happened, and that online retailers are being treated as ISPs for the purposes of the law.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2015)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I know that I can, but as you said earlier Becca, Amazon doesn't have to restore anything without agreement by both parties involved. If Jeff hadn't intervened you'd have been screwed regardless. I am reading the forms now. It seems to require two physical copies be sent, Do you know if that's right? I have 16 titles and rising.


Correct, if you do/have a print edition, you must send two physical copies of the best edition (for Aisuru, that meant the hardback for me...). If you only released an eBook edition, then you can just upload it.

I've seen some people advocate getting around this by releasing the print edition after registering, but if it's within 3 months of the initial release, mandatory deposit is still required.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2015)

Anma Natsu said:


> Correct, if you do/have a print edition, you must send two physical copies of the best edition (for Aisuru, that meant the hardback for me...). If you only released an eBook edition, then you can just upload it.
> 
> I've seen some people advocate getting around this by releasing the print edition after registering, but if it's within 3 months of the initial release, mandatory deposit is still required.


The last time I read the copyright requirements for physical books (a year ago), two copies of the best edition were *always* required: no getting around it.


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> The last time I read the copyright requirements for physical books (a year ago), two copies of the best edition were *always* required: no getting around it.


You can get around it in two ways - firstly by only publishing an ebook (obviously) or secondly by registering copyright prior to publication. For unpublished works you file electronically and there is no requirement to deposit a physical edition at a subsequent date if/when you create a paperback version.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Tilly said:


> You can get around it in two ways - firstly by only publishing an ebook (obviously) or secondly by registering copyright prior to publication. For unpublished works you file electronically and there is no requirement to deposit a physical edition at a subsequent date if/when you create a paperback version.


Ah hindsight is a wonderful thing. I guess I will have to start with the next title though I am not sure Amazon will care. If I ever get taken down by them, I suspect it will be "Oh dear never mind, next." and "Talk to Mr Joe Schmo, he says he wrote it. Sort it out with him and get back to us."


----------



## RomanceAuthor (Aug 18, 2014)

Okay, quick question: how do I check if my books are copyright protected? 

I have applied for copyright eons ago, but never received confirmation (shamefully I also didn't bother to check what happened)


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

oakwood said:


> Once it all gets sorted Holly, perhaps grounds for suing Zon for lost income - specially since you are in a true business relationship with them through their actually publishing you oin their own label? Might set a precedent. You could crowdfund to finance the action. I'm sure many many of us would be interested to see the outcome.
> 
> At the very least - perhaps start a public petition directed to Jeff. https://www.change.org/start-a-petition
> Anyone of us could do it but it makes more sense if a heavy hitter who also got hit (no pun) takes lead.


Why would she do this? If it was someone who filed a DMCA against her, then Amazon acted as *required *by law. She would need to challenge the law, not Amazon. But nowhere does she say she filed any kind of DMCA counter-claim, as is also required by law as the first step in challenging an alleged infringement. So it doesn't really add up that's what's at the heart of the issue.

Also, to be told, "They then said if I did it again, I'd be suspended," wouldn't make sense in a DMCA infringement. Did what again? Had someone file a DMCA against one of her titles? No. Nothing in this is like what happened with Becca.

So it sounds like there was some behavior happening that was on Holly's side to control. Like the authors who had their titles temporarily removed for using words some of them didn't realize were no-no words in their keywords, such as 'free' and 'Kindle'.

Amazon is also within its rights to remove books at its discretion. Does Amazon sue me for unpublishing box sets that are still selling well? No. We're in a mutually "at will" contract.

So what are you actually advocating she use as the basis of a law suit?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, there's no basis for a lawsuit, so far as I can see. Amazon is acting according to the letter of the DMCA, and the TOS we all signed allow Amazon to take books down for whatever reason they like, anyway.

I do think there's room to pressure Amazon to respond more individually to DMCA counter-notifications (and Holly, Phoenix is right -- until you file a proper counter-notification, Amazon has no legal safe harbor to restore your books). But that pressure will need to come through publicity, not the courts.


----------



## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

This is weird. I hope you'll cope with it. I bet the issue had come from a jealous writer.


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

That's really scary! Holly, I hope you get this resolved quickly, and that perhaps, this can be a catalyst for change in the system.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2015)

Tilly said:


> You can get around it in two ways - firstly by only publishing an ebook (obviously) or secondly by registering copyright prior to publication. For unpublished works you file electronically and there is no requirement to deposit a physical edition at a subsequent date if/when you create a paperback version.


That's true if your paperback is only created and not published. For physical books, copies are required within two months of publication (I could be wrong about the two months; the length of time might be different). I am referring to the two copies for the Library of Congress - your statement is true regarding deposit copies for the copyright office.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> That's true if your paperback is only created and not published. For physical books, copies are required within two months of publication (I could be wrong about the two months; the length of time might be different). I am referring to the two copies for the Library of Congress - your statement is true regarding deposit copies for the copyright office.


As I said there are two ways around it, one being *e-book only*. You don't have to lodge a paperback when you physically haven't created one.

The other work around is to register copyright *prior* to publication. Personally I register the unpublished manuscript after it's been through my editor's hands but before it goes to the proofreader. By the time I nix any typos, format the e-book, send the file to my paperback formatter, get that back, upload to CreateSpace, wait for proof copies to be delivered and then authorise the paperback, 2 months have gone by (and that's presupposing there is such a 2 month time limit, I've not seen any mention of it when I go through the process).


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2015)

Tilly said:


> As I said there are two ways around it, one being *e-book only*. You don't have to lodge a paperback when you physically haven't created one.
> 
> The other work around is to register copyright *prior* to publication. Personally I register the unpublished manuscript after it's been through my editor's hands but before it goes to the proofreader. By the time I nix any typos, format the e-book, send the file to my paperback formatter, get that back, upload to CreateSpace, wait for proof copies to be delivered and then authorise the paperback, 2 months have gone by (and that's presupposing there is such a 2 month time limit, I've not seen any mention of it when I go through the process).


I think we are discussing two different things here. I'm saying there is no way around providing the copies of published physical books that should be sent to this address:

Library of Congress
Copyright Office, Attn: 407 Deposits
101 Independence Avenue SE
Washington DC, District of Columbia
20559

One is not prompted to provide these two copies while going through the copyright submission process. It's mentioned elsewhere on the copyright site.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2015)

Nimrodish said:


> I think we are discussing two different things here. I'm saying there is no way around providing the copies of published physical books that should be sent to this address.


No, you just don't seem to understand what I am saying - if you register *PRIOR to publication* you do not have to deposit physical copies, because there are no physical copies in existence at that time. I don't know how to make that plainer?

Anyway, I'm not going to bang my head on the wall trying to explain it to you, I have books to write...


----------



## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Though a millionth as famous as you, Holly, and a billionth as rich, I was also approached by Amazon to prove that I was me. I told them we had had this conversation once already, and that they had been satisfied the earlier time, and further, to look up the Wikipedia entry under my name. They were nice enough to apologize, and hopefully, it won't happen again.

One method of approach (I don't know if it worked, but I've used it once as an additional backup) is to tell them details about your books no one else is likely to know. Well, of course, you have to have an intelligent person at the other end ... and if you do, then it's easy.


----------



## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

H.M. Ward said:


> What are the odds that it's [email protected]?


I did go the [email protected] route once, but got a management team person to respond. You are much more likely to have better luck.


----------



## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

PhoenixS said:


> Why would she do this? If it was someone who filed a DMCA against her, then Amazon acted as *required *by law. She would need to challenge the law, not Amazon. But nowhere does she say she filed any kind of DMCA counter-claim, as is also required by law as the first step in challenging an alleged infringement. So it doesn't really add up that's what's at the heart of the issue.
> 
> Also, to be told, "They then said if I did it again, I'd be suspended," wouldn't make sense in a DMCA infringement. Did what again? Had someone file a DMCA against one of her titles? No. Nothing in this is like what happened with Becca.
> 
> ...


I want to marry your brain. I love the smell of logic and reason in the morning.


----------



## Gator (Sep 28, 2012)

Nimrodish said:


> I'm saying there is no way around providing the copies of published physical books that should be sent to this address:
> 
> Library of Congress
> Copyright Office, Attn: 407 Deposits
> ...


The exceptions are listed in Title 17 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Section 407, Deposit of copies or phonorecords for the Library of Congress:



> (c) The Register of Copyrights may by regulation exempt any categories of material from the deposit requirements of this section, or require deposit of only one copy or phonorecord with respect to any categories. Such regulations shall provide either for complete exemption from the deposit requirements of this section, or for alternative forms of deposit ...


and spelled out in Title 37 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Section 202.19, Deposit of published copies or phonorecords for the Library of Congress:



> *(c) Exemptions from deposit requirements. The following categories of material are exempt from the deposit requirements of section 407(a) of title 17:*
> 
> (5) Electronic works published in the United States and available only online. This exemption includes electronic serials available only online only until such time as a demand is issued by the Copyright Office under the regulations set forth in §202.24 of these regulations. This exemption does not apply to works that are published in both online, electronic formats and in physical formats, which remain subject to the appropriate mandatory deposit requirements.
> 
> ...


and in Circular 7d - Mandatory Deposit of Copies or Phonorecords for the Library of Congress:



> *Copyright Registration to Satisfy
> Mandatory Deposit Requirements*
> 
> ... you can satisfy the mandatory deposit provision in section 407 by applying to register a copyright, which requires submission of deposit copies.
> ...


and in the U.S. Copyright Office's FAQ:



> *What works may be registered with electronic deposits?*
> 
> The following classes of works may be registered in eCO with electronic deposit copies:
> - Unpublished works;
> ...


So don't be surprised when the U.S. Copyright Office issues a demand for mandatory deposit for your eBook-only book or unpublished works which you've registered the copyright. You will have three months to comply, and if you don't, you can expect to be fined.

Under current regulations, there's no guarantee the U.S. Copyright Office will issue a demand for mandatory deposit for these two classes of works after the copyright has been registered, but there's no guarantee they won't, either.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Richardcrasta said:


> One method of approach (I don't know if it worked, but I've used it once as an additional backup) is to tell them details about your books no one else is likely to know. Well, of course, you have to have an intelligent person at the other end ... and if you do, then it's easy.


Would 20 years of rejection letters from trad publishers be sufficient proof


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

oakwood said:


> Very well. I don't know American law, although I can't believe the law dictates a DMCA has to be responded to instantly without any control. In any case, my suggestion for a petition to Amazon to revise their rules and internal policy on how they handle dmca's, specially for more established work still stands. 10,000 petitioners ought to make jeff or someone give it a thought.
> 
> The petitions done through change.org are public and can be shared through social media for extra effect.


The law states that in order to avoid legal liability, a site must



> "(C) upon notification of claimed infringement as de-scribed in paragraph (3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.
> 
> [...] ''(3)ELEMENTS OF NOTIFICATION.-
> 
> ...


 (source)

As you can see, the notifier does not have to provide any evidence that the notified-against work actually does infringe a copyright; all they have to do is "identify" the work they claim is being infringed. Upon receiving notification, the site must "expeditiously" take the material down and cannot be held liable for damages for having taken the material down.

The DMCA places tremendous power in the hands of the person claiming infringement, whether they're a legitimate copyright-holder or not. ISPs (and retailers like Amazon) are given discretion regarding the challenged material only after counter-notification has occurred. Prior to counter-notification, the law binds them to take the material down as quickly as they're able, no questions asked.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Becca Mills said:


> ISPs (and retailers like Amazon) are given discretion regarding the challenged material only after counter-notification has occurred.


Exactly. And Amazon will say, "so sorry. You need to come to an agreement with the complainant and then both email us to restore the book in question. Have a nice day. Please fill out this customer satisfaction survey."


----------



## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

H.M. Ward said:


> I did not get a warning email, it was a copyright claim on books that were posted in 2013, and there was nothing in my spam folder. I checked. A verification request of copyright was sent and my books were taken down until such a time that Amazon said they could verify my account. *They then said if I did it again, I'd be suspended.* It was similar to what they sent Becca from the sounds of it.


I'm confused. They didn't send a warning email, they just sent an email stating that they were removing the books until you verified the copyright?

And as to the bolded part, if you did _what_ again? What was that referencing?


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

Gator said:


> The exceptions are listed in Title 17 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Section 407, Deposit of copies or phonorecords for the Library of Congress:
> 
> and spelled out in Title 37 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Section 202.19, Deposit of published copies or phonorecords for the Library of Congress:
> 
> ...


That's very interesting. I wasn't aware of #10; must've ignored it when reading these sections in the past (since I'm in the USA and it doesn't apply to me).

I follow the same method Tilly described for prepublication copyrighting and send two physical copies to the Library of Congress immediately after publication (of paperbacks). Although . . . the second time I used that prepublication method, I received an email from the Copyright Office telling me that I needed to provide the deposit copies ASAP for copyright registration (I'd already sent mandatory deposit copies to the Library of Congress but the Copyright Office indicated that did not satisfy their requirements). Their reasoning was: The book was unpublished when I submitted the registration, but it was published by the time they got around to processing it. That was just a one-time thing, though.

Thank you for taking the time to provide all this useful information and the links.


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

Yeah, I think with the speed of copyright registration, the only way you can truly get around it without worries is hold off on doing a print edition for a year after the digital, which allows time for the registration and the three month period mentioned in the guidelines.

Not worth it to me personally, and I don't mind the mandatory deposit even if it does add $15-20 or so to the cost (copies + shipping).  The only sucky part is you can't just send straight from CreateSpace because you have to include the paper.


----------



## doolittle03 (Feb 13, 2015)

Horrible situation and stupid beyond belief. 
I believe the retailer has more leeway than the DMCA states. When my novel was still for sale at Apple 3 years after the rights had reversed and repeated notices sent--Amazon found it again when I tried to enroll the book in Select. I filed the DMCA at their website, emailed their legal team every day, supplied copyright info and reversion notice (as much as I could in their dinky fields) and the book remained available for sale for 14 days until at last a human being looked into it and pulled the book.
The situation is a bit different but filing the notice did not result in swift action.
If I were a copyright scammer, I would have given up.


----------



## MMacLeod (Sep 21, 2015)

So exactly what documentation does one provide to prove that you are really you and your book is really your book?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Nicole Carlson said:


> So exactly what documentation does one provide to prove that you are really you and your book is really your book?


To prove that you are your pen name, you usually need to use your publicly available author email address to respond to a query KDP has sent to the email address they have on file for you as a publisher. That email triangle proves that you, the real person whose SSN/tax number is on file with Amazon, have control over the pen name's web presence.

To prove that you are the rightful copyright holder of your book ... well, that's trickier. I sent a PDF of my U.S. copyright registration. If you didn't file for copyright, you could offer to send multiple rough drafts showing the book's development over time. You could also indicate a place where early text from the book was published online with a clear date attached. There are probably other tactics as well. In my case, most of my focus was on disproving the scammer's claims, not on proving my own copyright.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2015)

Anma Natsu said:


> The only sucky part is you can't just send straight from CreateSpace because you have to include the paper.


Yes, that part is a pain in the neck for sure!


----------



## baldricko (Mar 14, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> To prove that you are the rightful copyright holder of your book ... well, that's trickier. I sent a PDF of my U.S. copyright registration. If you didn't file for copyright, you could offer to send multiple rough drafts showing the book's development over time. You could also indicate a place where early text from the book was published online with a clear date attached. There are probably other tactics as well. In my case, most of my focus was on disproving the scammer's claims, not on proving my own copyright.


Or you could purchase an ISBN for a measly $10.00 or less I think for a package of 10.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

baldricko said:


> Or you could purchase an ISBN for a measly $10.00 or less I think for a package of 10.


Here in the U.S., I'm pretty sure 10 ISBNs would cost a few hundred dollars. Given the cost, hardly any of us bother buying them for ebooks. How does having one prove your copyright?


----------



## Gator (Sep 28, 2012)

baldricko said:


> Or you could purchase an ISBN for a measly $10.00 or less I think for a package of 10.


Even in the late 1980s when I first checked, a block of 10 ISBNs from Bowker wasn't that cheap. It was $35 for a block of 100 ISBNs and I think $20 for a block of 10. Currently, Bowker sells a block of 10 ISBNs for $295.


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

baldricko said:


> Or you could purchase an ISBN for a measly $10.00 or less I think for a package of 10.


An ISBN is not a proof of copyright, anyone can buy one and assign it to anything they choose, it proves nothing.


----------



## baldricko (Mar 14, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> Here in the U.S., I'm pretty sure 10 ISBNs would cost a few hundred dollars. Given the cost, hardly any of us bother buying them for ebooks. How does having one prove your copyright?


Seriously? They're costing an arm and a leg in the USA then. I can't see how they could sell them for that much. You would want to purchase them in blocks rather than one at a time.

I'm in Australia. They sell at just over Au$40.00 each when purchased separately. Buying a bunch of ten works out to be around Au$8.00 each.


----------



## baldricko (Mar 14, 2014)

DarkarNights said:


> An ISBN is not a proof of copyright, anyone can buy one and assign it to anything they choose, it proves nothing.


Correct. It is part of the process of being a publisher, if you wish to sell your books online, or through other outlets. As a unique number it it is an identifier and as such provides a record of linkage if you like.

Having an ISBN is for me a smart move. But it all depends on your target as a writer. What you want to do with your work.


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

baldricko said:


> Correct. It is part of the process of being a publisher, if you wish to sell your books online, or through other outlets. As a unique number it it is an identifier and as such provides a record of linkage if you like.
> 
> Having an ISBN is for me a smart move. But it all depends on your target as a writer. What you want to do with your work.


Having an ISBN is a smart move, unfortunately in the US the cost is outrageous unless bought in bulk from Bowker, or bought cheap from a 3rd party like CreateSpace. ISBNs is one area in publishing where the US is severely behind other countries. Honestly I don't know how Bowker is not taken down by antitrust laws. But, as far as copyright goes, ISBNs do not provide any legal protection or proof.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Becca Mills said:


> To prove that you are your pen name, you usually need to use your publicly available author email address to respond to a query KDP has sent to the email address they have on file for you as a publisher. That email triangle proves that you, the real person whose SSN/tax number is on file with Amazon, have control over the pen name's web presence.
> 
> To prove that you are the rightful copyright holder of your book ... well, that's trickier. I sent a PDF of my U.S. copyright registration. If you didn't file for copyright, you could offer to send multiple rough drafts showing the book's development over time. You could also indicate a place where early text from the book was published online with a clear date attached. There are probably other tactics as well. In my case, most of my focus was on disproving the scammer's claims, not on proving my own copyright.


Or you can provide a wad of rejection letters from Trad publishers (yes, some of mine pre-date emails and go back to the days of actual letters )


----------



## AJStewart (May 10, 2014)

There's a lot of talk here about copyright protection etc, but I don't see how this copyright protection actually protects anyone from a DMCA takedown. It looks like it happens anyway. Part of the problem to me seems to be that Amazon (and other vendors) don't require proper verification of copyright when the book is put on sale initially. It's just a check box asking to confirm you own the rights. Something more rigorous might help prevent some of this extortion.


----------



## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

DarkarNights said:


> Having an ISBN is a smart move, unfortunately in the US the cost is outrageous unless bought in bulk from Bowker, or bought cheap from a 3rd party like CreateSpace. ISBNs is one area in publishing where the US is severly behind other contries. Honestly I don't know how Bowker is not taken down by antitrust laws. But, as far as copyright goes, ISBNs do not provide any legal protection or proof.


Because Bowker's whole existence is owed to an artificial monopoly on the right to assign ISBNs. The gov't handed them that monopoly. Antitrust laws don't really apply to them any more than they apply to the USPS.


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

Nathan Elliott said:


> Because Bowker's whole existence is owed to an artificial monopoly on the right to assign ISBNs. The gov't handed them that monopoly. Antitrust laws don't really apply to them any more than they apply to the USPS.


I don't think that was the government. I think that was the ISBN organization itself. They're the ones that authorize national registrars and set up the rules that prevent you from registering in another country which is asinine. Frankly I think that US authors should rise up, organize, and go to the international organization and ask to be recognized as an independent registrar.


----------



## chalice (Jan 5, 2013)

Kylo Ren said:


> So, let me get this straight. If I send one of those DMCA notices to Amazon, claiming that I hold the copyright to, say, The Stand by Stephen King, they would remove King's book, no questions asked?


*I doubt they will pull that stunt on Stephen King.

Best Regards,
Shana Jahsinta Walters.*


----------



## chalice (Jan 5, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> What I fear whenever I see this sort of thing is that it will happen to me. I'm a non US citizen and hence have no rights. Over here, we don't have a proper certification thing for copyright. We have the British Library and 5 copyright "offices" that hold copies of our paper books, but we don't get a reg number or certificate. When asked "You don't need it, you wrote it, you own it."
> 
> I'm told I could register in the US, but as Becca said, the good guy AND the bad guy have to come to "terms" and email KDP to say it's sorted. What BS is that?
> 
> If anyone needs yet another reason to NOT be exclusive with anyone, let alone Amazon, this bollocks has go to be it.


*Mark E. Cooper, I will have the same issue as you if this ever happens to me.
I live in Antigua and we don't have any copyright laws of any legal agencies to deal with this.

Best Regards,
Shana Jahsinta Walters.*


----------



## chalice (Jan 5, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I swear indie authors need a guild or union or something to protect them from this. We're all separated and that's why we have no recourse for this behavior.


*ShaneJeffery, I second that motion to have an union for authors.

Best Regards,
Shana Jahsinta Walters.*


----------



## chalice (Jan 5, 2013)

*PhoenixS, It seems to me like you are going out of your way to attack Holly M. Ward with every post that you make on this thread.
These are the kinds of posts that drove her away in the first place.

Best Regards,
Shana Jahsinta Walters.*


----------



## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

chalice said:


> *PhoenixS, It seems to me like you are going out of your way to attack Holly M. Ward with every post that you make on this thread.
> These are the kinds of posts that drove her away in the first place.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Shana Jahsinta Walters.*


Phoenix brings logic and common sense to every thread she joins. This is no exception. Her questions were ones I wondered myself. No attacks were made. Just good questions to help get to the bottom of what happened.


----------



## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

Monique said:


> Phoenix brings logic and common sense to every thread she joins. This is no exception. Her questions were ones I wondered myself. No attacks were made. Just good questions to help get to the bottom of what happened.


Absolutely agree. Phoenix merely asked the right questions and as OP hasn't been back to update, I'm guessing issue was closer to Phoenix's suggestion of simple author oversight than anything more sinister.


----------



## baldricko (Mar 14, 2014)

Nathan Elliott said:


> Because Bowker's whole existence is owed to an artificial monopoly on the right to assign ISBNs. The gov't handed them that monopoly. Antitrust laws don't really apply to them any more than they apply to the USPS.


I don't understand how a monopoly can be "artificial". A monopoly to my mind either is or it is not. Yes, there is a monopoly when it comes to ISBNs.

This is not an ideal situation I agree. But does that negate the fundamental reasons why a universal identifier for a book is important? No of course not. As I mentioned earlier, when you consider the worth of an ISBN to yourself, you must consider what you intend to do with your work.

As far as copyright goes. These days the moment you write something it is protected within law, in the west, by copyright.

My point about the importance of an ISBN and its relevance to copyright is that the number is a universal identifier. Bowker holds a copy of the work you uploaded to them when you paid for and set up your ISBN. That in itself is another part of the paper trail when it comes to proving your case in situations like the one being presented by the OP.

To your point, I would compare an ISBN with the Internet itself.

If I may paraphrase you, the Internet owes its whole existence to an artificial monopoly in as much as one country effectively controls the infrastructure, and I mean through corporate / government control. Sure it was invented in that country, but it has become key to the way the whole world communicates now. So, the fact it is a monopoly does not take away from the utility of the thing, or the essential need for it. After all, the most effective monopolies are those controlling essential items.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Shana,

As many people read these kinds of threads about Amazon taking down books (no matter who posts them), questions about specifics are very helpful to the membership at large to determine cause and effect as an aid to others.  I've seen the same kinds of questions in other threads on the same issue.

On an unrelated issue, I've changed the screen appearance of your posts to remove the red font as we have members who are colorblind and colors other than black are hard for them to read.  As a secondary reason, using red or other bright colors here is akin to typing in all caps, which we don't allow (except for one thread on ALL CAPS WEDNESDAY).  It looks like you're shouting.  Thanks for understanding.

Betsy
KB Mod


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

AJStewart said:


> There's a lot of talk here about copyright protection etc, but I don't see how this copyright protection actually protects anyone from a DMCA takedown. It looks like it happens anyway. Part of the problem to me seems to be that Amazon (and other vendors) don't require proper verification of copyright when the book is put on sale initially. It's just a check box asking to confirm you own the rights. Something more rigorous might help prevent some of this extortion.


Agreed.

But like what?


----------



## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

baldricko said:


> I don't understand how a monopoly can be "artificial". A monopoly to my mind either is or it is not. Yes, there is a monopoly when it comes to ISBNs.
> 
> This is not an ideal situation I agree. But does that negate the fundamental reasons why a universal identifier for a book is important? No of course not. As I mentioned earlier, when you consider the worth of an ISBN to yourself, you must consider what you intend to do with your work.
> 
> ...


I was thinking it is artificial in the sense that unlike most monopolies where some barrier to entry makes it economically impossible or improbable for a new competitor to arise, in this case there is no real expense involved in generating new ISBN numbers. You basically add 1 to the previous number (aside from its last digit) and then compute a checksum to determine the final digit of the new number. That is an oversimplification because I am ignoring publisher blocks, but my point is that it is trivially easy and inexpensive to generate unique IDs. There is no real barrier to entry except the "artificial" one created by the gov't or by some international org as the case may be. There is no reason why Bowker needs to be the only entity selling ISBNs in the US. Congress could always split the US blocks of ISBNs between a couple registrars and we could maybe get some competition to motivate Bowker to try a little harder. Their website was atrocious the last time I used it (haven't been bothering with ISBNs lately even though I own a block). They made numerous attempts to sell you expensive add-ons of little to no value by using confusing language on their site. If I had a choice I would not deal with any company that behaved that way. And they could also stop charging a thousand bucks for a range of numbers that cost next to nothing to administer. If we run out (oh no!) we can always move to ISBN-16 or ISBN-20 or whatever.

That is what I meant by artificial. The only barrier to entry is a political one.

Also, IMO, nobody needs Bowker to hold a copy to create a paper(digital?) trail. (I didn't think I had to upload anything, but then it has been a long time, so I could be forgetting). Registering the copyright accomplishes that paper trail, and can be done much more affordably. Maybe they serve a purpose to bookstores, but that is fast becoming irrelevant.


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

To continue with the off-topic discussion...
You know, in the metadata field in an epub file there's another universal identifier which is not the ISBN. It looks something like this:
<dc:identifier>urn:uuid:85e476c0-5380-42fe-8c03-f1d2dfe43265</dc:identifier>
It's the 128 bit "universally unique identifier". UUIDs could be used in some future alternate book-to-author authentication system. It was supposed to be like an ISBN, but better. Unfortunately no one makes much use of them. It's a way to make a unique, universally recognizable number without the need for a central repository like Bowker or the ISBN organization.

As much as I don't like their pricing, what they do provide of value is the publisher and distributor data and ordering info for print books.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

AJStewart said:


> There's a lot of talk here about copyright protection etc, but I don't see how this copyright protection actually protects anyone from a DMCA takedown. It looks like it happens anyway. Part of the problem to me seems to be that Amazon (and other vendors) don't require proper verification of copyright when the book is put on sale initially. It's just a check box asking to confirm you own the rights. Something more rigorous might help prevent some of this extortion.


Once you suffer a DMCA takedown, the challenge is getting your work put back up. If having a copyright registration in hand helps you do that, great. Even if it's only one small piece of getting your book restored, it's worth it, IMO, e.ven if it doesn't prevent the initial takedown (which it won't)

For Amazon to go through copyright verification on every submitted book before putting it on sale would take a far greater investment of personhours than just subjecting the occasional DMCA counter-notification to individual scrutiny. I think the latter would be the easiest and most effective course. Especially since, as Mark noted above, many nations have no official copyright registration process.


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

555aaa said:


> I don't think that was the government. I think that was the ISBN organization itself. They're the ones that authorize national registrars and set up the rules that prevent you from registering in another country which is asinine. Frankly I think that US authors should rise up, organize, and go to the international organization and ask to be recognized as an independent registrar.


Sign me up for that crusade!


----------



## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

chalice said:


> *ShaneJeffery, I second that motion to have an union for authors.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Shana Jahsinta Walters.*


Being a union president myself I know a few things about the topic of unions. In the eyes of the law authors are the same as independent contractors. Unionizing laws were written for the protection of employees against the actions of their employers. Authors are self employed, we chose to contract our services to whoever we want to do business with. If we don't like the terms we can simply choose not to do business with that company. For this reason there are no protection's or avenues available as far as authors forming a union. In order to do this, the first step would have to be getting congress to pass new legislation which would allow for the formation of unions by independent contractors in order to facilitate collective bargaining with companies. This would be a very long and complicated process to get going, and probably very expensive in legal fees as well. You would have to first round up enough people with deep enough pockets and an interest in the outcome to even get the ball rolling.


----------



## chalice (Jan 5, 2013)

DarkarNights said:


> Being a union president myself I know a few things about the topic of unions. In the eyes of the law authors are the same as independent contractors. Unionizing laws were written for the protection of employees against the actions of their employers. Authors are self employed, we chose to contract our services to whoever we want to do business with. If we don't like the terms we can simply choose not to do business with that company. For this reason there are no protection's or avenues available as far as authors forming a union. In order to do this, the first step would have to be getting congress to pass new legislation which would allow for the formation of unions by independent contractors in order to facilitate collective bargaining with companies. This would be a very long and complicated process to get going, and probably very expensive in legal fees as well. You would have to first round up enough people with deep enough pockets and an interest in the outcome to even get the ball rolling.


*Thanks for keeping me informed.

Best Regards,
Shana Jahsinta Walters*


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

DarkarNights said:


> Being a union president myself I know a few things about the topic of unions. In the eyes of the law authors are the same as independent contractors. Unionizing laws were written for the protection of employees against the actions of their employers. Authors are self employed, we chose to contract our services to whoever we want to do business with. If we don't like the terms we can simply choose not to do business with that company. For this reason there are no protection's or avenues available as far as authors forming a union. In order to do this, the first step would have to be getting congress to pass new legislation which would allow for the formation of unions by independent contractors in order to facilitate collective bargaining with companies. This would be a very long and complicated process to get going, and probably very expensive in legal fees as well. You would have to first round up enough people with deep enough pockets and an interest in the outcome to even get the ball rolling.


Just curious, is this what actors do with the SAG?


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

ebbrown said:


> Just curious, is this what actors do with the SAG?


Aren't actors employees covered by a contract with a company? Once they sign the contract, they are obligated to perform the duties they've agreed to for the duration of the contract. I don't see that as self-emplyed.

Betsy


----------



## Gina Black (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't know the particulars of the SAG agreement, but generally how Hollywood collective bargaining agreements work is that there's a standard contract that governs how studios and production entities pay the members. There can be individual contracts between a particular studio and a guild as well. The union/guild member is always an employee, even if they are a "loan out."


----------



## Kessie Carroll (Jan 15, 2014)

Anybody know if Holly has gotten this resolved yet? I'd like to blog about it as a heads-up to other authors, but I'd like to know if she got it sorted.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Kessie Carroll said:


> Anybody know if Holly has gotten this resolved yet? I'd like to blog about it as a heads-up to other authors, but I'd like to know if she got it sorted.


It appears she's removed all mention of the issue from her FB page and has been silent on the subject since.

One might wonder at that move as well as the lack of press about the matter.


----------



## Guest (Nov 19, 2015)

PhoenixS said:


> It appears she's removed all mention of the issue from her FB page and has been silent on the subject since.
> 
> One might wonder at that move as well as the lack of press about the matter.


Did Amazon reinstate the 4 books in question, or are they still unavailable? That might give some clue about what is/was going on?


----------



## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

The OP mentioned The Arrangement 7 in her first post. The book appears to be on Amazon US and UK, at least.


----------



## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

PhoenixS said:


> It appears she's removed all mention of the issue from her FB page and has been silent on the subject since.
> 
> One might wonder at that move as well as the lack of press about the matter.


By now, and given the timing I'm pretty sure it was the keywords thing and like you suggested, she just didn't spot the warning emails...


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

PhoenixS said:


> It appears she's removed all mention of the issue from her FB page and has been silent on the subject since.
> 
> One might wonder at that move as well as the lack of press about the matter.


I would expect that it means everything was resolved fairly quickly.

Probably time to move on here as well....

Betsy


----------



## Barbara Morgenroth (May 14, 2010)

As a member of the Writer's Guild of America, which is indeed a union, we contract with a producer.  The producer must be a signatory to the Guild.  That means they abide by the rules of the WGA and if the producer defaults the writer isn't really involved, it's the producer fighting with the WGA.  Not a good idea.  This holds true whether it is a longterm job or something like a script treatment.  Since I'm a writer, not an actor, I have no idea what SAG or AFTRA's specifics are but I imagine them to be very similar.


----------



## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

Barbara Morgenroth said:


> As a member of the Writer's Guild of America, which is indeed a union, we contract with a producer. The producer must be a signatory to the Guild. That means they abide by the rules of the WGA and if the producer defaults the writer isn't really involved, it's the producer fighting with the WGA. Not a good idea. This holds true whether it is a longterm job or something like a script treatment. Since I'm a writer, not an actor, I have no idea what SAG or AFTRA's specifics are but I imagine them to be very similar.


But even though you're a writer, you don't keep the copyrights to your creations, correct? Isn't it work for hire? I think that is why it is legal for you to unionize, unlike indie authors.


----------



## baldricko (Mar 14, 2014)

Nathan Elliott said:


> But even though you're a writer, you don't keep the copyrights to your creations, correct? Isn't it work for hire? I think that is why it is legal for you to unionize, unlike indie authors.


My two cents worth on unions ...A rank and file organized action is always better in the long run. This is the ideal. I hold to it.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

H.M. Ward said:


> So, some of you may know who I am. If not, quick intro:
> 
> I started in 2011 as an indie author, walked away from trad pubbing. It wasn't my thing. Long story short, break out book hit the NYT list after sleeping for 9 months, then I had a novel hit the top 100 of amazon and stay there for over 100 days. I've sold over 10 million copies and work 100+ hours a week. Writers work their asses off.
> 
> ...


This makes no sense at all. They pull BOOK 7? Yet leave all the others there? book 1 -6, 8 and up?

Wouldn't it make sense that if they pulled book 7 they would pull all of them as all the other ones are the same story.

What reason did they give you?

Have they not seen your website?

Heard of your name?

Sounds like someone has done a number on you. That is sad. I feel for you girl.


----------



## Guest (Nov 28, 2015)

KDP contract?

Where can I find a copy of the KDP contract?

Or is the "I accept" the terms of service the only negotiation of a "contract"


----------



## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Okey Dokey said:


> KDP contract?
> 
> Where can I find a copy of the KDP contract?
> 
> Or is the "I accept" the terms of service the only negotiation of a "contract"


It's still a contract, even if you're not allowed to negotiate.


----------

