# USED Kindles for low income / at-risk children?



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

The average reading level in the US is 9th Grade at best, which is horrifying. As somebody who absolutely lives for my Kindle and also has a high level of commitment to education (which, in America, currently stinks), I'd like to make a suggestion:

Children, given the opportunity, love to learn and love to read. I'm sure there are a fairly large number of Kindles that are returned or exchanged for various reasons. I also know (who doesn't?) that there are a huge number of free or very low cost e-books available.

It occurs to me that Amazon / Kindle, either on its own or in cooperation with another organization (Oprah Winfrey, since she has so glowingly spoken of Kindle; Bill & Melinda Gates, who are also big on education; the Knight Foundation, etc., etc., come to mind,) might set up a program by which used or refurbished Kindles, and Kindles with minor defects that can't be sold, are provided to high-risk / low income children or schools at no cost, with the restriction that downloads be limited to free public domain titles (or maybe the massive number of titles between 99¢ and, let's say $1.99, IF there is a pre-funded account attached, though there are obvious risks and problems involved with such accounts.)

I recently had my debit card information stolen, so my Kindle / Amazon account didn't have a valid card number until I got my new one. During that period of two or three weeks, though, I was still able to download free e-books so I know at least that much is possible.

Everything that can be done to raise the literacy level in America should be done, and Amazon has a perfect opportunity.

Kindle's feedback address is kindle-feedback*AT*amazon.com. I wrote to them with the idea when it first struck me and I encourage others who feel likewise to write to them also. It is important, though, that emails on the subject NOT be perceived as heavy-handed. Amazon is doing a wonderful thing by spreading the availability of the written word at generally rock-bottom prices and pressure tactics - if they are taken as such - are probably an effective way to kill a good idea.

Let's see if we can spread the word!!!


----------



## Dana (Dec 4, 2009)

If the Kindle could be made near indestructible, I would be all for this.  I doubt a regular Kindle would last a week in such an environment unfortunately.


----------



## raven312 (Jan 12, 2010)

I have to disagree.  We're talking about an age group who regularly uses Nintendo DX's and the like.  They are used to micro-technology, moreso than we were.  If they learn to love reading I would think they would take VERY good care of the device that brings them that much pleasure.  I think it's a worthwhile pursuit.  If Amazon was going to dispose of them anyway, it would be a good tax write-off and benefit someone else, a potential win/win.


----------



## Margaret (Jan 1, 2010)

Dana said:


> If the Kindle could be made near indestructible, I would be all for this. I doubt a regular Kindle would last a week in such an environment unfortunately.


I have to agree with you. I am an elementary school librarian and I see how our books suffer from the wear and tear given to them by children. I don't think they do it on purpose, for the most part they are just not used to treating things carefully. A Kindle is a much more delicate device than a book and I think most children would not give it the care it requires, unless they were strongly supervised by an adult. Pfaoro certainly has the right idea. Reading material needs to get into the hands of children who are at risk. For the time being though, it may be wiser and less frustrating to stick with old fashioned books. Another thought may be to donate those used Kindles to neighborhood centers where the kids could be supervised while they used them. The Kindles may have a better chance at survival and the kids could still get to read on something they would see as cooler than a regular book.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

yeah. . . .kids are used to technology and figure stuff out really quickly. . . .that doesn't mean most parents would want to let them out of the house with their expensive equipment. . . . .and, face it, stuff happens and kids just aren't as careful as adults  -- on the whole, of course.  One can find exceptions to prove every rule.  But I agree that it would be great for Amazon to develop a hardier version aimed at kids. . . . .


----------



## racheldeet (Jan 21, 2010)

While it's a kind idea, younger kids, I think, in large numbers, would do a good job of breaking the pretty fragile Kindle. Older kids can't be trusted with anything (I went to a low-income, tiny high school, where anything the school got was stolen or broken. I watched kids in my honors classes stick pencils in CD drives while they were closing to break them.)

If you're talking individuals, then it'd sort of be required to fall into the "fill out a lengthy application regarding financial status and then wait for six months" trap, which is frustrating at best and very disheartening the longer it goes on. Not to mention that these sorts of programs end up being offered only in large cities, leaving those "in the middle of nowhere" who lack access to libraries out in the cold.

It's not a bad idea, but I think it's not as simple to implement it as it might seem.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

I grant some of these points and disagree with others:

A Kindle isn't all that fragile. I've inadvertently dropped mine more than once without trouble, which is obviously not the same as deliberately trying to do damage or kicking it down the sidewalk. Still, that observation does argue well for teaching kids to take care of the devices and thus having them distributed judiciously through the schools and supervised.

As for the current generation that "uses Nintendo DX's and the like", I think that, too, is a favorable indicator. A child in my own family who claims she "hates" to read fell instantly in love with my Kindle precisely because it IS a computer.

I fully understand what our librarian friend writes (my mother was also a librarian), but consider this: the reason books in school and public libraries are in such terrible condition is largely, if not entirely, _because_ they are being used.

At the risk of sounding off from my soapbox, may I suggest we focus on what can be accomplished rather than all the reasons it won't work.

None of us have any $$$ risk involved, and I think the engineering types at Amazon have the skills to make sure the devices are sufficiently sturdy, so it seems to me the main thing is to let the company know the idea has merit and support by writing to: <kindle-feedback*AT*amazon.com>


----------



## raven312 (Jan 12, 2010)

I thought I read somewhere in the past day or two that Amazon is indeed going to try this type of program in low income schools.  That's where I was coming from.  You wouldn't just give a child one of these and have them go at it.  It would seem to me that (depending upon the child's age) you would sit with them and teach them how to use the Kindle.  As intuitive as it is for us who read, I don't think anyone can reasonably expect a child with low reading level to know what to do with it at first glance.  I wouldn't give one to them to take home, either - that should occur somewhere way down the line, when you could identify a child who now LOVES to read and handles the Kindle like the tool it is.  I've had a library card since I was four, the youngest in my town at the time (maybe still - I have never checked.)  I was also one of the very few kids who my mother could take the the neighborhood library and leave there (you can't leave your children unsupervised, of course.)  The librarians loved that I loved to read at so young an age and they enjoyed having me there and challenging me with different genres of books and they always knew that if they sat me down some place, that's where I'd be until that book was finished.  Surely there are more children out there who, if given the chance, would love to experience that.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

I completely agree that Kindles shouldn't be distributed to children who are too young to take care of them, and perhaps haven't yet passed the Dick-and-Jane stage of reading development. Further, I, too, recoil in horror at the prospect of such a program becoming a morass of grant writing.

Most importantly, though, is this: all but one of the people who have participated in this thread have supported the idea, albeit with some qualifications, and even the one holdout wasn't negative so much as noncommittal. *How many have actually written to Amazon endorsing the idea* That is why I posted the subject in the first place.

Not a single child will benefit if we sit around like so many Sunday morning "talking heads" without doing something!

If you do write to Amazon (and hopefully write to your Kindle colleagues asking them to do likewise) I'd appreciate a private message letting me know you've done so,


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Amazon is a for-profit business, not a charitable organization.  If you have an established organization that works with kids that could use Kindles to help them learn, then, by all means, contact Amazon to see if there is someone you could work with on this.  Otherwise, I don't think it's realistic to think that if enough people write vague emails to say Amazon should be doing "something" we will see Jeff Bezos handing out Kindles at the local Boys and Girls Clubs after work.  The way to start something like this is to partner with the company and do the legwork, not send in emails asking for free Kindles.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

Countless for-profit companies, for equally countless reasons, engage in charitable activities on their own initiative under IRS 501(c) regulations. There is a vast difference between "writing vague emails", a.k.a. a spam attack, and simply (and *politely!*) letting Amazon know the idea has support


----------



## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I dont see a family who cant afford their light bill or send their kids to bed hungry letting one of their kids have a kindle when it could be pawned so easily.  Not trying to bring anyone down, just I come from poverty and dont see it happening.


----------



## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

About 2 weeks ago or so, someone posted a link to an article where a reading teacher at an elementary school had 11-15 Kindles in her classroom, and was having the kids read via kindle, and it was working out great! I want to say the age group was 3rd grade, so we are talking 8-9 years old.


----------



## rbbyrbsn (Jan 15, 2010)

pfaoro said:


> The average reading level in the US is 9th Grade at best, which is horrifying.
> 
> [/quote
> 
> I'm pretty sure the standardize tests are only grade 8 would that make grade 9 a achievement ?


----------



## ReconDelta (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't believe the Kindle is a device suitable for this type of endeavor.  

Perhaps a project similar to OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) could develop a cheap eInk device, to distribute.

Of course, there is already an abundance of free books available across the US, and most of the world, yet the kiddies still do not read.  So would a new electronic toy make a difference?  Probably not.


----------



## Dana (Dec 4, 2009)

raven312 said:


> I have to disagree. We're talking about an age group who regularly uses Nintendo DX's and the like. They are used to micro-technology, moreso than we were. If they learn to love reading I would think they would take VERY good care of the device that brings them that much pleasure. I think it's a worthwhile pursuit. If Amazon was going to dispose of them anyway, it would be a good tax write-off and benefit someone else, a potential win/win.


As a parent of 3 who have/had Nintendo DS, DSi, and other variations, even if a child really loves an item, and has more technical knowledge to use it than the parents, and is reasonably careful, it's still likely to get stepped on, sat on, stolen, etc. Those items are also more durable than a Kindle. Plus these technically savvy kids are used to touch screens and are likely to forget the Kindle isn't a touchscreen and damage the screen right out of the gate. The rooms/lockers of some of these kids can be really scary and even beloved items get shuffled around in the mix.



pfaoro said:


> A Kindle isn't all that fragile. I've inadvertently dropped mine more than once without trouble, which is obviously not the same as deliberately trying to do damage or kicking it down the sidewalk. Still, that observation does argue well for teaching kids to take care of the devices and thus having them distributed judiciously through the schools and supervised.


We've seen too many stories of the screens being cracked by rolling over on them in soft bed, having a malfunction with a hinged cover, scratching the screen when gently trying to remove a fleck of dirt, and other mishaps that were accidents and not intentional abuse. That's why so many that don't purchase warranties for other items, purchase one for this delicate and much handled item. School books, desks, crayons, pencils, walls and basically anything else that doesn't walk all show what kids do to items even though they've been "taught" how to treat items.

There are ways around the "delicate" issue... There are already hard plastic covers to protect the Kindle from water that would greatly help, but that's another expense.

One on one reading tutoring would be wonderful where both can read on their Kindles and the adult would be immediately available in case of a freeze up or some other problem with the Kindle might pop up. But I just can't imagine letting such an expensive item leave the school grounds. We all protect our Kindles with covers, special bags, etc........ to think of a naked Kindle in a child's backpack is scary.

Our schools can't properly maintain their buildings and basic classroom needs have to be filled by the parents. It's just hard to imagine the system being able to oversee the care and use of a fleet of expensive Kindles. But this might be another area where parents can form a team to raise funds for eBooks and sit with the kids while they read....... Of course in the kids in the worst shape, there won't be many parents to volunteer. Many aren't interested or don't have the time since they are working and trying to keep their heads above water.

A reading program that has worked well in some schools is for a volunteer to bring in a service dog that is trained to "listen" when read to..... this has really given the kids confidence and made them want to read. This is also a two on one approach.... (dog, trainer, child) which limits the number of children who can participate. Maybe the Kindle situation I mentioned above could handle a handful of kids at a time....


----------



## Todd (Dec 16, 2009)

If you want a low cost solution? Let them read DTB's!!


----------



## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Or they can download Kindle for the PC onto their One Laptop per Child laptop.


----------



## Raffeer (Nov 19, 2008)

Well said Tod. 
Amazon would do better donating DTB's to schools, libraries and youth centers that are being eviscerated by the present economic situation.


----------



## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

I live in an area of middle to higher income families, and the schools are considered really good (I have no kids, so I have no comparison) - but I can tell you there is a major rash of i-pod and i-phone thefts in all of these "nice" schools.  The schools are telling everyone not to bring any of these or gaming items to school.  The thefts are out of control - and I, for one, just can't figure out why - everyone of the kids that I know who go to these schools have everything they could possibly want - it's beyond me.  But anyway, I would worry about theft more than anything.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

There is a saying that a nation is best measured by how it treats it's children.  There is also a Yiddish proverb that goes "A child without parents is an orphan; a nation without children is likewise an orphan."   

In looking over the posts that have been made since I started the thread a few days ago I've been encouraged by and large by the generally positive tone in most of them, and moreso those who have offered solid suggestions to improve the idea.  By the same token, I am not one of those do-gooders who insist that everyone who has disagreed is wrong.  Indeed, a discussion  in which all agree isn't a discussion at all.

However:

Not to claim that my idea was perfectly phrased, there is too much focus on what is wrong with the idea rather than what might be accomplished.

It was nothing less than snide to suggest that the idea would result in Jeff Bezoz handing out Kindles at the local Boys and Girls Clubs.

It was presumptuous to suggest that every low income kid has a laptop.

The story of Feb. 13 (out of San Francisco) reported that Amazon was planning to give away Kindles in a marketing move against iPod.  That is a vastly different thing than donating devices to deserving kids or schools, especially since the article clearly stated that the program was intended to encourage people to buy profitable content.  There is nothing wrong with selling something at a reasonable profit, but  that also is vastly different from encouraging children to read.

Recommending that kids are better of with DTB's is to recommend laziness: why learn to read if you can get the material read to you?  Kids love to learn, but they will coast if allowed to do so.

Whether or not standardized testing is done at the 8th grade level or not misses the point entirely.  Is a 8th grade or 9th grade reading level something to be proud of  The newspaper industry, by its own studies, has to write on a 9th grade level just to maintain readership.  

As a personal opinion, I submit that it's shameful that by a broad margin the first and most widely read section of a newspaper is the Sports section, closely followed by local news. National and International news?  Not even close.  Arts and Humanities? Barely a blip on the screen. Why Try literacy: those sections and the concepts they often involve are difficult to grasp if the reader hasn't learned the reasoning skills and sophistication that come with being able to read above the Dick-and-Jane level.

Finally, and, yes, with a dose of spleen, nobody to my knowledge is doing anything, which was my apparently selfish motive in starting the thread in the first place..  If, as with Macbeth's idiot, this is to be nothing more than "...sound and fury,Signifying nothing " like a bunch of Sunday morning talking heads, so be it.  I have nothing more to contribute, so I'm outta here.

Have a nice time among yourselves;  I'm outta here.


----------



## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

Sorry if you took my post as negative.  But it was more of a reality based thinking process for me.  As I said earlier, I grew up poor.  My earliest memory is lying in bed with my sister still hungry.  The idea that giving poor kids the opportunity to read on a Kindle is nice, but to me I just dont see it flying.  People tend to see things from their own perspective rather than one of others.  I personally see it as an issues to make middle/upper class people feel better about themselves rather than actually helping poor kids.  But then again, that is my perspective.


----------



## MarthaT (Mar 3, 2009)

It sounds like a good idea to me


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

I guess I couldn't stay away after all.

I, too, grew up poor on a hardscrabble dairy farm that never turned a profit, attending a school that was abysmally bad. BUT I LEARNED HOW TO READ! That is the ONLY reason I was able to get scholarships, go to college, travel the world, and get not only into the middle class but the so-called Jet Set (which, looking back, wasn't all that wonderful.)

I don't give a tinker's d***m if "middle/upper class people feel better about themselves" or not. Doing the right thing for wrong or selfish reasons is perfectly fine with me. As Nelson Mandela, and others, have remarked, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" In this case, my enemy, or for that matter the nation's enemy, is ignorance and I'll take whatever allies I can find.

Another cliche (that I use in my email signature):
Education means more than earning a living;
Education means having a life.​


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm all in favor of getting anyone and everyone to read.  I've been doing it since I was 4 and have always encouraged children around me to follow suit.  However, I'm not sure if going the electronic route is the best way.  It does have the advantage of being cool - and that's a good way to attract initial attention.  

My concern, though, is around costs and around getting support from the community in general.  eBook readers are considered a luxury item still.  The the average person, it may well be serious overkill and I think to get the support necessary to make an impact on a city-wide, state-wide or national level will take the support of more people than those of us blessed with means to purchase our own ebook readers.


----------



## libros_lego (Mar 24, 2009)

^^^I agree. I just don't think giving out kindles is cost-effective. If someone really wants to promote "reading", I say use the resources available such as public libraries, etc. You don't really need a kindle for that.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

Absolutely right! But the effort needs to start somewhere. That means telling Amazon *politely* that the idea has support, that we are encouraging them to to look seriously into the idea, _and asking our friends and associates to do likewise._

eBook readers are definitely a luxury item: $260 isn't chump change. However, there is a hefty profit in the item, a returned / refurb has already been paid for, and devices that would otherwise be scrapped for minor defects like scratched cases / screens might as well go for some benefit to the company as well as the kids.

Somewhere along the line (perhaps because my post wasn't READ all the way through?) it seems to have been overlooked that I never suggested giving away perfectly good, new Kindles.

The bottom line remains: are we going to DO SOMETHING, or are we just going to sit around jawboning?


----------



## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

Jenni said:


> ^^^I agree. I just don't think giving out kindles is cost-effective. If someone really wants to promote "reading", I say use the resources available such as public libraries, etc. You don't really need a kindle for that.


I agree, but would like to add one other point. As someone who grew up a voracious reader (hence my Kindle addiction) - my parents just could not afford to buy me a book every 2-3 days - so, to the local library I went. It was not just great to borrow books; but also had some great programs too! I joined reading groups, found many new authors based on recommendations by other patrons and the librarians themselves (who are fabulous!), met a bunch of new people, went to lectures, got involved in volunteering, etc...

So basically a local library is also a wonderful and valuable tool to get involved in community events (we didn't have a community center - we had a library). I think one of the best things we can do for kids is to show them that reading can also be a great social event, and with that they will lean valuable social skills. All of this technology is really great, but I think we might be missing something. People may be becoming more solitary - even socializing via a PC. My nephews don't go out on "play dates" - they log in. I can actually see that they are not learning any social skills. This bothers me.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

Jenni, please refer to my most recent post. Cost effectiveness is a minor consideration since the devices have already been paid for at market rate, or they can't be sold because of minor defects. *I never suggested giving away perfectly good new Kindles.*

As for the libraries, think about it. Isn't a major part of the problem that kids don't use libraries unless compelled to? We've beaten the love of learning, which is inherent in every child, completely out of them. Conversely, we've taught them to love computers so why not take advantage of it?


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Geoffrey said:


> I'm all in favor of getting anyone and everyone to read. I've been doing it since I was 4 and have always encouraged children around me to follow suit. However, I'm not sure if going the electronic route is the best way. It does have the advantage of being cool - and that's a good way to attract initial attention.
> 
> My concern, though, is around costs and around getting support from the community in general. eBook readers are considered a luxury item still. The the average person, it may well be serious overkill and I think to get the support necessary to make an impact on a city-wide, state-wide or national level will take the support of more people than those of us blessed with means to purchase our own ebook readers.


I completely agree with this.



> Recommending that kids are better of with DTB's is to recommend laziness: why learn to read if you can get the material read to you? Kids love to learn, but they will coast if allowed to do so.


I'm not sure I understand this. DTB is short for Dead Tree Book, as in a paper copy. I'd much rather see someone donate hundreds if DTBs instead of 1-2 Kindles. Many more children will be able to have access to books. As much as I love my Kindle, it's not something I see as a necessity.


----------



## pomlover2586 (Feb 14, 2009)

pfaoro said:


> eBook readers are definitely a luxury item: $260 isn't chump change. However, there is a hefty profit in the item, a returned / refurb has already been paid for, and devices that would otherwise be scrapped for minor defects like scratched cases / screens might as well go for some benefit to the company as well as the kids.


Most returned, and then refurbished Kindles are RESOLD by Amazon to customers at a lower price- they don't get scrapped.  Amazon sells a device at FULL Cost......refunds the money.....fixes the device, and then RESELLS it at a lower cost- but probably still making a profit off said defective item. So WHY would a FOR PROFIT company give away a refurbished item when they can resell it?

Gotta admit the general idea is a good one.....but in todays economy, it doesn't make sense. Should Amazon donate to charity? Definitely! Should they do it through used Kindles? No......DTB's are much more effective- lower inital cost, and they will last A LOT longer than a Kindle- especially in the hands of children. JMO


----------



## libros_lego (Mar 24, 2009)

pfaoro, I know that you don't mean to give out new kindles. And I do appreciate what you're trying to do, but like what others have said, you don't really need a kindle to do that. Maybe start with DTBs and see where it goes.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

Actually, DTB has many, many definitions (no doubt a victim of the text message age) I understood it to mean Digital Talking Books (National Information Standards Organization)


----------



## libros_lego (Mar 24, 2009)

Okay, here it means Dead Tree Book.


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Here on Kindleboards we use DTB as Dead Tree Books. I'm about 99.9% sure the people who are talking about donating DTB instead of Kindles are not suggesting audiobooks.


----------



## pomlover2586 (Feb 14, 2009)

Even in Context you can tell we're referring to Dead Tree Books....They are A LOT cheaper than Kindles.....AND Audio Books.....


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

I guess I stand corrected, but I still don't grasp how donating paper books to kids who have learned to dislike paper books offers a solution.  Why not take advantage that even the youngest are in love with computers?


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

pomlover2586 said:


> Even in Context you can tell we're referring to Dead Tree Books....They are A LOT cheaper than Kindles.....AND Audio Books.....


...Which I submit raises an obvious question, as well as an observation. The observation is that for a very long time countless organizations have been donating paper books which kids are largely reluctant to read. The question is, is the objective economic or is it to get kids to read in a manner they like and enjoy, i.e., on "neat-o" computers?

The question (I paraphrase) has probably been better stated as "Which is more expensive, literacy or illiteracy"?


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

pfaoro--

I applaud you for coming up with a new idea to try to improve literacy in this country.  It's an area where we definitely need to improve things.  Whether anything comes of it or not, I respect your willingness to put it out there.  I'm going to give it some thought and may send an email to Amazon along the lines you suggest.

And folks, we've had to explain DTB to a lot of folks along the way here, it's not unheard of that someone wouldn't know what it means.

Thanks for joining KindleBoards, pfaoro!  We have a lot of folks who like to be devil's advocates and who enjoy a good debate, don't give up on us!

Betsy


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

pfaoro said:


> I guess I stand corrected, but I still don't grasp how donating paper books to kids who have learned to dislike paper books offers a solution. Why not take advantage that even the youngest are in love with computers?


Giving a Kindle to someone who doesn't like to read is basically giving them a paperweight. Reading is reading whatever the media. Yes, a Kindle has a cool factor, but honestly, I don't believe it's enough of one that's going to make that much of a difference. There are far more cost effective ways of promoting reading.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

By which I assume we are to give up and go quietly into the night?  Sorry, that's not my flavor.


----------



## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

Speaking of the digital age and new technology........my latest post just got lost somewhere in the netherworld of the inter-web......

And of course it was the most insightful, brilliantly worded and inspiring post yet!  

Oh well, I guess you'll just have to take my word on my genius... LOL!


----------



## libros_lego (Mar 24, 2009)

I don't think refusing to give away kindle=doing nothing to promote reading.


----------



## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

pfaoro said:


> By which I assume we are to give up and go quietly into the night? Sorry, that's not my flavor.


Actually, no one said that. There were many other suggestions - just not of the Kindle version.


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

pfaoro said:


> By which I assume we are to give up and go quietly into the night? Sorry, that's not my flavor.


I didn't say that. I'm a homeschooling mom of 4 kids and I use a literature based curriculum with my children. I do understand the importance of reading and fostering a love for reading. I just don't think the Kindle is the way to do it. That's just my opinion.


----------



## pomlover2586 (Feb 14, 2009)

Perhaps instead of looking at methods of giving Kindles to the underprivileged......we should be [pardon the pun] looking at better ways of Re-Kindling the Love of reading within our Youth?

I work with kids, and I know first hand that kids don't like to read as much as my peers and I did at their age. I find this upsetting.....lets ignore the media in which kids read- be it DTB's or Kindles, or even Nooks-Lets focus instead on getting the kids to LOVE reading again.....because lets face it, if a child HATES reading with a passion [as so many of them do] then the media in which we ask them to read is irrelevant.......they won't read regardless.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

If it's true that kids in general like to read less than kids in previous generations (and I don't know if that's true or not), I wonder what the reason for that would be.  Could it be that there are more options for kids now, and reading books is one of the least attractive to kids?  (We know babies are fascinated by bright shiny colors. )  

(We have five grandkids, and the oldest two girls are never without books.  The older boy isn't much of a reader, he has always loved the computer more.  The youngest one has some slight learning disabilities and doesn't enjoy reading as much as her sisters as it's more difficult for her. So my small sample of five doesn't really prove things one way or another.)

I do know that the youngest grandson, 10, who loves computer games, isn't much interested in my Kindle, not enough going on for him.

Betsy


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

In fact - statistical fact - kids dislike reading *much* more so than their parents. It falls under the general rubric of the "dumbing down of education". Teachers are pressured into "teaching to the test" so they look good on comparative rankings. Administrations burden teachers with responsibilities that have little to do with teaching: a third of a teacher's time today is devoted to paperwork. Social promotion, simply to pass along kids to the next grade, plays a role as well.

The list is nearly endless: a friend, now deceased, who was on the Board of Regents for our state university once told me that half of each incoming freshmen need a full first semester of remedial courses to learn what they should have learned in high school if not lower grade schools.

It's a vicious circle of lowered expectations producing lowered results. It's easier for everybody all the way around except that those results are bad for everybody all the way around. And still we do nothing.


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Doing away with No Child Left Behind will go a whole lot farther than giving low-income kids free Kindles.


----------



## pomlover2586 (Feb 14, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> Doing away with No Child Left Behind will go a whole lot farther than giving low-income kids free Kindles.


Amen!!


----------



## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Giving a Kindle to someone who doesn't enjoy reading will not fix the problem - it's just another band aid. Give anyone (adult or child) who doesn't enjoy reading a Kindle and you'll be giving them an electronic, dust gathering paper weight.

The solution to the problem is teaching children the pleasures of reading. Up to a certain age page turning and pictures are an integral part of learning to get pleasure from the experience.

And the reason newspapers are written at a 9th grade reading level is because we let them get away with it.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

Indeed! NCLB is a bureaucratic boondoggle tailor-made to allow schools to dodge the rules, which makes the whole thing a pointless rat hole down which to pour money while pretending things are being accomplished.

A tale from personal experience:

Growing up in the 50's, we were poor and the school we attended was worse than bad. Mother, however, had graduated from one of the "Seven Sisters" Ivy League universities; she still had all of her college books, plus others she had picked up over the years.  We also had an old hand-me-down encyclopedia.  When I first began reading, about the same time I entered the "Why?, Why?, Why?..." phase, her answers to my endless questions were invariably "I don't know; let's look it up."  We always found what we were looking for, but just as importantly there was always something in the article or on the opposite page that sent us off on a new search.  

By the time our expedition was over the floor around us was littered with volumes and I had been exposed to far, far more than the answers to my first childlike inquiry. (I do something very like it in Wikipedia to this day as I approach 60)

Yes, my school was horrible, the teachers were largely tenured on the old "Normal School" certificates, the rural farming environment in which we lived was anti-academic in the extreme - hostile is a more accurate term - with few exceptions, my classmates did everything they could to avoid learning, but I had serious and demanding expectations placed on me and I LOVED IT!!!.

I'm no smarter than the next person, and that is the point of this tale.  Kids will meet reasonable, challenging, expectations until, at some magical point, they take the bit in their teeth at which time, it's "Katie bar the door!"


----------



## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

I too had a "let's look it up" parent and I feel very fortunate to this day for the time my Mom spent encouraging us to read and find answers on our own. Unfortunately, the kids you are trying to help by and large do not have that support at home. No matter what income level they are from.
I donate to an organization that gives a free book to every child that goes to our children's clinic. I also donate DTB's to people who can't afford to even buy a "real" book but they love to read. 
It needs to start at home, in your own town, city, whathaveyou. Start your own Saturday "get a free book" for kids and find some volunteers to sit with them and read with them. Start small, incite the need to read locally and it just may surprise you and go global!


----------



## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

pfaoro said:


> In fact - statistical fact - kids dislike reading *much* more so than their parents. It falls under the general rubric of the "dumbing down of education". Teachers are pressured into "teaching to the test" so they look good on comparative rankings. Administrations burden teachers with responsibilities that have little to do with teaching: a third of a teacher's time today is devoted to paperwork. Social promotion, simply to pass along kids to the next grade, plays a role as well.
> 
> The list is nearly endless: a friend, now deceased, who was on the Board of Regents for our state university once told me that half of each incoming freshmen need a full first semester of remedial courses to learn what they should have learned in high school if not lower grade schools.
> 
> It's a vicious circle of lowered expectations producing lowered results. It's easier for everybody all the way around except that those results are bad for everybody all the way around. And still we do nothing.


I don't know if it falls so much as under the "dumbing down of education" as it does there is a whole lot more crap to divert their attention from reading than when we were younger. It is also more a parents responsibility to get their kids _interested_ in reading than it is the schools.


----------



## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Forster said:


> I don't know if it falls so much as under the "dumbing down of education" as it does there is a whole lot more crap to divert their attention from reading than when we were younger. It is also more a parents responsibility to get their kids _interested_ in reading than it is the schools.


What Forster said.....A major challenge for education today is competing with Nintendo and cable tv, not to mention the internet.

Pfaoro--You've gotten a lot of feedback, and some of it is (I think) valid. What have you absorbed from the feedback? Are there any ways you can tailor your original idea to address some of the concerns?

I promise you, the folks at this board are not trying to tear you up, the objections they voice are real ones in their eyes. This is a pretty civil place, but it is open to debate and discussion--Disagreeing with an idea someone puts forth is not the same as attacking or "dissing" the person.


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

It's too early to give a comprehensive assessment of what can be taken from the discussion but I realize the adverse feedback wasn't entirely dissing, though some of it definitely was.  There was also a great deal of positive feedback, as well as repetition indicating that prior posts from others as well as myself weren't being read.  

I intend to continue monitoring the thread, gleaning the useful criticism / suggestions for the purpose of refining the original post, and submit the concept to people or organizations - including Amazon, Inc. - who will be in a position to DO SOMETHING.  I'm too old and tired for a tempest in a teapot.


----------



## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

You may try contacting the people at RIF. http://www.rif.org/

Maybe they'll have a take on e-readers and children's literacy, they've been in the business of bringing books to kids since 1966.


----------



## pomlover2586 (Feb 14, 2009)

pfaoro said:


> *but I realize the adverse feedback wasn't entirely dissing, though some of it definitely was.* _There was also a great deal of positive feedback, as well as repetition indicating that prior posts from others as well as myself weren't being read.
> _


As for your comment in bold.....may I ask WHERE exactly were you "dissed"? Everyone's replies were thoughtful, opinionated, and POLITE.

As for the area in italics- Perhaps the reason certain ideas/concepts were repeated is because MORE THAN one person AGREED with it.....as opposed to not having read the entire thread.

Just food for thought


----------



## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I volunteer/mentor/assist in teaching at an Aviation school in Dallas for low income kids.  What I see most needed with the children I am involved with is stability at home.  They need their lights on, running water, groceries.  They need their mother and fathers involved in their lives.  

I am sorry if what I say upsets you but I dont see a Kindle helping a single one of them.  I just dont.  And yes, while it might hurt your feelings or make you mad, I do see it as middle class disconnect to think it would help them.


----------



## TechBotBoy (Jan 25, 2010)

You might also check out cheap Kindels being sold from "Craigs List" without the 3G connection - books can still be downloaded from the PC and the savings are significant. 

            - Tbb


----------



## pfaoro (Feb 13, 2010)

KindleChickie said:


> I volunteer/mentor/assist in teaching at an Aviation school in Dallas for low income kids. What I see most needed with the children I am involved with is stability at home. They need their lights on, running water, groceries. They need their mother and fathers involved in their lives.
> 
> I am sorry if what I say upsets you but I dont see a Kindle helping a single one of them. I just dont. And yes, while it might hurt your feelings or make you mad, I do see it as middle class disconnect to think it would help them.


I'm not unaware that there are myriad other problems contributing to the literacy issue, nor that there are other sources of help / assistance. However, addressing the problem needs to start somewhere and however critical food, water, electricity, and family dynamics are - and they obviously are critical - it only dilutes the focus to bring them into this one proposal.

My feelings aren't hurt, nor am I angry. Nor for that matter do I deny there is a role being played out by middle class disconnects though I strenuously opt out of that accusation... Does that mean we should give up? Does that mean we should continue talking amongst ourselves without at least trying to take some concrete action? Are you suggesting that class status precludes right actions? Does that mean there is no merit in trying to help even one child? I think not, but of the 500+ people who have looked at this thread I am only aware of one who has written.

If you look back over my posts you will see that I have never once asked people to parrot my words verbatim. I asked only that individuals who found some modicum of merit in the idea - with or without modification - let that support be known in their own words. That's all; those who don't like the idea for whatever reason, or no reason at all, are welcome to continue doing nothing.


----------



## sherylb (Oct 27, 2008)

pfaoro said:


> I'm not unaware that there are myriad other problems contributing to the literacy issue, nor that there are other sources of help / assistance. However, addressing the problem needs to start somewhere and however critical food, water, electricity, and family dynamics are - and they obviously are critical - it only dilutes the focus to bring them into this one proposal.
> 
> My feelings aren't hurt, nor am I angry. Nor for that matter do I deny there is a role being played out by middle class disconnects though I strenuously opt out of that accusation... Does that mean we should give up? Does that mean we should continue talking amongst ourselves without at least trying to take some concrete action? Are you suggesting that class status precludes right actions? Does that mean there is no merit in trying to help even one child? I think not, but of the 500+ people who have looked at this thread I am only aware of one who has written.
> 
> If you look back over my posts you will see that I have never once asked people to parrot my words verbatim. I asked only that individuals who found some modicum of merit in the idea - with or without modification - let that support be known in their own words. That's all; those who don't like the idea for whatever reason, or no reason at all, are welcome to continue doing nothing.


Pfaro, I kind of take offence at your tone here. Just because we don't fall in line with your idea does not mean that we are "doing nothing'. You don't know us and you have no idea what we are individually contributing to promote literacy. May I ask you what you are doing besides sending an email _asking someone else _ to do something? Anyone can send an email, but it takes a lot more to actually make the effort to get out there and do something in your community yourself to promote literacy.


----------



## Forster (Mar 9, 2009)

This topic got me thinking a little bit.

One thing I have done for the last 13 years is contribute to our local schools "Prime Time" night.  It's basically a night where all the 5th & 6th grade students show up with a parent or another adult, everyone dresses casually and brings pillows etc. and are grouped into teams who compete on how many pages they each read.  Prizes are new books that the kids can pick out, everyone gets to pick some books and most walk away with 3-4 new books.  Everybody is fed and has a good time.  Everything is done to encourage all kids to participate and we get close to a 75% turn out and everyone has a great time.

Next year I may have to look into buying a couple of refurbished Kindles and load them up with public domain books to donate as grand prizes.  If the kids felt like they earned them, they may value them more.


----------



## pomlover2586 (Feb 14, 2009)

pfaoro said:


> If you look back over my posts you will see that I have never once asked people to parrot my words verbatim. I asked only that *individuals who found some modicum of merit in the idea - with or without modification - let that support be known in their own words.* That's all; those who don't like the idea for whatever reason, or no reason at all, are welcome to continue doing nothing.


People have responded to this thread in their own words, letting you know what "merit and modifications" they feel are appropriate......and still you continue to reiterate your original concept/idea and debate the opinions of others.......rather aggressively in fact. To the point where it makes it seem as though you think our ideas, thoughts and opinions are inferior to your own.

Perhaps as other posters have already stated: What are YOU doing in real life- i.e. daily, in person etc to actually help the illiteracy issue- as opposed to simply sending an email to someone _who may or may not_ do something FOR you

Perhaps it's time to get off the soap box.....and go out and actually DO Something.....debating it over and over again on a web forum is helping no one- and quite frankly irritating a lot of others........ 

I think it's time we agree to disagree.......and move on....Perhaps a MOD could even close this thread as it seems to have run it's course?


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

We are generally not in the habit of locking threads around here. I do ask that people remember that our number one rule here at KindleBoards is no personal attacks. We try to keep things friendly and fun; when debates get more serious, we ask that folks be respectful and polite.

If the tone of the thread or the intensity of the discussion is bothersome to any individual, I suggest you just move on. Take yourself out of the conversation and let be, let be. 

Thanks,

Leslie
Global Mod


----------



## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

Forster said:


> This topic got me thinking a little bit.
> 
> One thing I have done for the last 13 years is contribute to our local schools "Prime Time" night. It's basically a night where all the 5th & 6th grade students show up with a parent or another adult, everyone dresses casually and brings pillows etc. and are grouped into teams who compete on how many pages they each read. Prizes are new books that the kids can pick out, everyone gets to pick some books and most walk away with 3-4 new books. Everybody is fed and has a good time. Everything is done to encourage all kids to participate and we get close to a 75% turn out and everyone has a great time.
> 
> Next year I may have to look into buying a couple of refurbished Kindles and load them up with public domain books to donate as grand prizes. If the kids felt like they earned them, they may value them more.


This sounds like a lot of fun! I wonder if you could put up some kind of blog post with an explanation of what you do, and a donate button to get some donated funds for the refurbed Kindles. I would hope that folks in your community would donate, and even I would kick in a few bucks.

I know this was done via a podcast for Autism Speaks, and although they didn't get a fortune, they got a about $3,000.


----------

