# Will readers cross into your other genres? My findings.



## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

As some of you may know, I started off publishing YA books. Some contemporary, some fantasy.

I switched into erotic romance a year ago, with a new pen name, and found a lot of readers.

The big question you might wonder: How has your growth in the romance genre helped your YA book sales?

Answer: Barely 1% of my romance readers, if that, appear to have any interest in my YA books. I had a 99-cent sale on all the titles and sold about 5 copies through that FB page. I've had links to my other books on my website, in various forms, and according to my Amazon Affiliates report, I've had exactly ZERO CLICKS of people even clicking the link from my site to look at the books, let alone buy them. (I've since taken the links down, to keep my brand clear.)

Your results may vary, but I just wanted to let you know my results in case you're considering a switch.

I've talked for a few YA-turned-erom authors in my days, and some of us have to go through a weird grieving process over the old name. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I will warn you that it is heartbreaking at times. I can get one email asking for a sequel to my YA fantasy book, and it will make me sad for half a day. Sometimes I think about taking them all down, but I do sell about 1 every couple days or so. I wish I could block them from my KDP report and forget.

Anyway.

I try to move forward and not look back.    Like a shark, because they don't have necks, so they can't look back.

ETA: Didn't mean to sound so blue. I don't regret a thing. I hope to one day sell off the YA book rights to a publisher, since some of them are (IMHO) pretty good, and I want some nerdy bookworm kids to read them.


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## legion (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks for sharing Mimi!


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm glad you have success with your erotic romance. It's been fun watching it. 

It doesn't suprise me that the crossover is small, since YA and erotic romance are so completely different from each other. I am thinking the percent that crossover would depend upon the genres.

For instance, my first series is historical fiction/drama/family saga. My upcoming will not be historical. Nor will it be about a family, although I suppose the girls who are trafficked to the house could consider themselves such. Both series are drama, though, so I am hoping for a decent crossover as things progress. We will see. Hopefully drama with angst and darkness will hold an appeal for the people who read my work no matter if it is historical or contemporary.

I could also see Thriller and Suspence having a good percentage. But for example, horror and romance? Not so much!

Keep that success going!


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## Blerch (Oct 17, 2013)

I'd be curious to see what results others have had crossing between genres. Erotic romance and YA are quite different, and I'd expect it to be something similar with erotic romance and any non-romance genre.

How about thrillers to sci-fi or fantasy? Mysteries to YA? I haven't written enough in my first genre that I still need to get readers in general before I can try switching genres to see if readers stick with me.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

Mimi said:


> The big question you might wonder: How has your growth in the romance genre helped your YA book sales?
> Answer: Barely 1% of my romance readers, if that, appear to have any interest in my YA books.


That's a good example of why trad publishers hate it when their authors try to switch genres. They know the readers aren't likely to follow.


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

What I'm curious about, is how many might cross over the OTHER way? I'm not talking about teens reading erotic romance, but we all know a lot of older women read YA, and from the new adult trends and 50 Shades trends, many have speculated that these readers are the same who devoured Harry Potter and Twilight and are moving onto older books. 
I've got a small but loyal fan base for my YA fantasy books. I've toyed on and off about coming out to them about my _other_ books. So far, nobody but my husband knows that pen name is me and I kind of like it that way, but at the same time I can see a lot of sales potential in my existing fan base. Particularly fans of my art (who are very into the paranormal thing). I've got 30K facebook followers of the right market age and gender range. If only I could get them to buy some of my damn books... 
Dalya, I know you pretty much started up Mimi on the quiet, but did you find many readers followed you from YA into Romance?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I think a lot of Elle's YA fans followed Elle into romance.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I've not so much had people go from romance to YA, but several of the reviews for Slow Burn said it was like Jason and Azazel, only "hotter." (So YA going to new adult?)

I'm actually making new covers for my YA series (which really is only technically YA for the first three books, since in the next "trilogy," they're in their twenties) with couples, to make them look more mature. (Arguably, I've always said my YA books were 16+, anyway) 

I was thinking about Jennifer Armentrout's Lux books, which have always been YA, but never had the girl on the front with the flowing hair or the pretty dress, and they seem to have "aged" well, possibly because they look new adult Anyway, worth a try, I figure, so we shall see.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> ...
> Dalya, I know you pretty much started up Mimi on the quiet, but did you find many readers followed you from YA into Romance?


Oh, god. Well, if I could get those readers to buy books and/or figured out how to sell them and whatnot, I wouldn't have switched in the first place.

As for the genres being quite different, yes, YA and e-rom are quite different. However, I do write with a lot of humor that is consistent across all the books. Some of my e-roms are quite comedic/chick-lit, and some of the YA is chick-lit/romance, so _I know_ they really aren't that different, but nobody would believe it. Take my Smart Mouth Waitress book, add about 7 sex scenes, and you'd have a book in my Peaches series. (Yes, I thought about doing a second edition, but decided that would just be too sad. Too, too sad.) I can't really blame the market, because people just like what they like and that's just how it is.

I do wonder, sometimes, what happened to all the adults who loved YA.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

It's probably not comparable because Spec-fic si the real genre and Fantasy/Sci-fi are the subgenres, but as a reader, I'm much more willing to follow and author between them if they're not necessarily abandoning the genre that made me like them.

There's a little bit of a betrayal there when you see that post on their site telling you that, yeah it was nice and all that I like these kinds of stories, but the author isn't going to do those anymore and is going to go flitting off to something else.

On the other hand, if it's presented as them trying something different without rubbing it in my face that they're never going to do the stuff I really want to read again, I'm willing to check out the new thing.

As a writer... again, it's probably a Ned Genres thing, but like 90% of my fans responded with what amounts to 'hot damn, this is awesome' when they heard I was branching out into Rune Breaker (Fantasy/Dungeponpunk) and when I released the Cowboy King (Weird West) teaser.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Mimi said:


> I do wonder, sometimes, what happened to all the adults who loved YA.


They're still around...much of the traditionally pub market for YA is still strong, it's just that what's popular in YA is super genre specific. 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/living/young-adult-fiction-evolution/


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## chrissponias (Sep 22, 2013)

Mimi said:


> Oh, god. Well, if I could get those readers to buy books and/or figured out how to sell them and whatnot, I wouldn't have switched in the first place.
> 
> As for the genres being quite different, yes, YA and e-rom are quite different. However, I do write with a lot of humor that is consistent across all the books. Some of my e-roms are quite comedic/chick-lit, and some of the YA is chick-lit/romance, so _I know_ they really aren't that different, but nobody would believe it. Take my Smart Mouth Waitress book, add about 7 sex scenes, and you'd have a book in my Peaches series. (Yes, I thought about doing a second edition, but decided that would just be too sad. Too, too sad.) I can't really blame the market, because people just like what they like and that's just how it is.
> 
> I do wonder, sometimes, what happened to all the adults who loved YA.


I believe that some of your readers should follow your new style after liking your YA books because they are growing up and therefore, they should care about other matters in life. Love should be the next interesting matter for them, but it seems that most readers don't want to grow up and change their habits.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

YA to Erotica, that's quite the leap! 

Does anyone know of any male authors that have made the leap into Erotic fiction and been successful, random question, but I'm curious. I mean...I have stories...but they are all borne of personal conquest and I'm sure the genre requires a certain touch when it comes to how the "key scenes" are written. I heard someone once say men are too "crude" to write erotica.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

I write in different genres and I've found that very few readers cross over. That really surprised me when I went from romantic suspense to suspense. kinda thought readers would follow. Nope. AND they don't follow if you shift to a sub genre or a crossover book. i used to gripe about publishers wanting the same book over and over, but it really looks like they knew what they were talking about. I thought readers would read whatever their favorites authors wrote. oh, foolish me.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

JVRoberts said:


> YA to Erotica, that's quite the leap!
> 
> Does anyone know of any male authors that have made the leap into Erotic fiction and been successful, random question, but I'm curious. I mean...I have stories...but they are all borne of personal conquest and I'm sure the genre requires a certain touch when it comes to how the "key scenes" are written. I heard someone once say men are too "crude" to write erotica.


Ardin Lalui writing as Abby Weeks is on fire


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

JVRoberts said:


> YA to Erotica, that's quite the leap!
> 
> Does anyone know of any male authors that have made the leap into Erotic fiction and been successful, random question, but I'm curious. I mean...I have stories...but they are all borne of personal conquest and I'm sure the genre requires a certain touch when it comes to how the "key scenes" are written. I heard someone once say men are too "crude" to write erotica.


Not 'too crude', but the male gaze and the male-oriented focus in erotica written by a man is usually obvious and (obviously) not what a woman is interested in and as women are the main buyers of erotica ... you see where's it's going.

Erotica written by females is just as 'crude' but has a definitive female gaze, which is difficult for a man to imitate convincingly for most seasoned readers.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Lana Amore said:


> Not 'too crude', but the male gaze and the male-oriented focus in erotica written by a man is usually obvious and (obviously) not what a woman is interested in and as women are the main buyers of erotica ... you see where's it's going.
> 
> Erotica written by females is just as 'crude' but has a definitive female gaze, which is difficult for a man to imitate convincingly for most seasoned readers.


I gotcha, it'd have to be more of the "Nicholas Sparks" route. I swear, the guy is like the Drake of fiction/literature...but he makes sales, so I can't hate.


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## Janet Michelson (Jun 20, 2012)

JVRoberts said:


> YA to Erotica, that's quite the leap!
> 
> Does anyone know of any male authors that have made the leap into Erotic fiction and been successful, random question, but I'm curious. I mean...I have stories...but they are all borne of personal conquest and I'm sure the genre requires a certain touch when it comes to how the "key scenes" are written. I heard someone once say men are too "crude" to write erotica.


I edited an erotica ms written by a man and it was nearly devoid of foreplay.  He followed my directions and made dramatic improvements in the sex scenes. Some men are trainable. (Are we still talking about writing?)


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Your findings match mine, Dalya. Crossover from my fantasy to my Victorian mysteries and contemporary fairytales is pretty much zilch. When I do sell a couple copies per month of the contemporaries I figure it's a true diehard fan. Like my mom.   Shocking, isn't it, that sword & sorcery lovers aren't into Victorian ladies solving crimes?


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Heck, some readers won't even follow an author into a different subgenre. Look at Julie Garwood. 
People love her historical romances, but she jumped ship to contempo romance/romantic suspense. Fans are still griping and asking her when she'll be writing HR again.  

Some authors have a kind of brand. They are known for certain genres/subgenres. 
Anne Stuart writes fantastic historical romances, she also writes fantastic romantic suspense. She also started writing paranormal romances under the name of Kristina Douglas, don't know how successful she is there, although I read the first and loved it. 

Mary Jo Putney, known for HR also writes YA as M.J. Putney. I wouldn't follow an author into YA, but that is because I read almost no YA. Just not my thing. Although I have started the Lux series as I am desperate for anything sci fi romance. Its a bit on the emo side for me, but a page turner. 

I think I would decide on a book to book basis and if its a genre I am interested in reading. 
Of course those I am listing are big names, known authors. Probably different for indy's. Of course Anne Frasier is also quite the big name out there.  .


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Janet Michelson said:


> I edited an erotica ms written by a man and it was nearly devoid of foreplay.  He followed my directions and made dramatic improvements in the sex scenes. Some men are trainable. (Are we still talking about writing?)


<3


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

Mimi, did you say you changed pen names? If so I wouln't expect any genre fans crossing over. They mostly don't even know you're the same writer.

From my perspective I get limited crossover. I write in four genres (so far but I'm thinking of adding detective as well). Sci fi, traditional epic fantasy, urban fantasy, and spiritual / angelic fantasy. Last month I put out a new trad fantasy novel, which is selling quite well. And what do you know the sales of my other trad fantasy novels have fairly much doubled since then. But none of the others have shifted much at all.

It didn't exactly come as a surprise, and it does reinforce what people keep saying about selling more books by staying firmly in one genre. I only wish I could follow that advice! But - sigh! - next book off the ranks is an angelic fantasy.

Cheers, Greg.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Anne Frasier said:


> I write in different genres and I've found that very few readers cross over. That really surprised me when I went from romantic suspense to suspense. kinda thought readers would follow. Nope. AND they don't follow if you shift to a sub genre or a crossover book. i used to gripe about publishers wanting the same book over and over, but it really looks like they knew what they were talking about. I thought readers would read whatever their favorites authors wrote. oh, foolish me.


Yup. I never really felt animosity to publishers/lit agents for turning down my early works ... never felt they were doing anything other than reasonably smart business choices. It was tough to get rejected, but I never felt "You will rue the day!" about it.

And now, month after month, I just have more appreciation for what they've been dealing with this whole time. I'm sure publishers and editors feel the same things we do--that they want to break out of the boxes, be brave, be innovative ... but not be roadkill.

Sidenote: I was thinking of trying something a little different with my next project, but now this conversation is sucking the wind out of those sails. Woe is me. I guess I could still go ahead, but just know that only 2% of my fans will buy the book. Maybe it could be enough to get a tiny bit of alogorithm boost to get the new book seen by the new audience. Or maybe I'll just cancel the whole thing and consider it two months of my life saved.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I really do think that erotica and romance both are very "trope specific" and those readers are hardest to get to cross over.  I've noticed some similar attitude among readers of some areas of best sellers -- though they are not looking for things from what we consider genres, but more how the movie folk look at it: people who are looking for "ten pole" blockbusters don't care as much which genre as long as it has that same feel of a tent pole blockbuster.

The writers I know who are cross genre are mainly sf/fantasy/mystery writers, with the emphasis on the spec fic end of the scale.  Their audiences (that is, the audience of those writers, not necessarily the audience of the genre) read more for voice/style/worldview, I think.

But you know, readers also evolve.

I've been watching my mom evolve as a reader.  She never had time to read, but just realized that, hey! She has time to read all she wants to now! At first, she'd find a book she liked, and then she'd tried to find others of the same type, and be disappointed in the next six books she tried because they were not just like the first.

But when she'd find an author she liked, she'd read through everything, and that got her to look at a wider range of books.

Now she's going back and reading all the books she rejected two years ago.  Some she's finding she really doesn't like, but many she's realizing were what she likes best.

So even though only two percent of your fans my buy your book now, there will be a certain number more who will want to try something else later on, and will try your books then.

Camille


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## horse_girl (Apr 9, 2010)

I actually don't cross such wide genre lines--SFF in both adult and YA. I have some readers who love everything and then there are those who don't. Early on, I learned it was best to separate my adult and YA books with different names--first/last and initials/last--because I was getting negative reviews of my dark fantasy by those who had read my YA (romantic SF). I started getting more positive reviews of the dark fantasy once I switched my name. I don't hide who I am, because there are those who want to read all my stories, but I simply make it clear what kind of story they can expect.

Still, lesson learned. Readers can be particular in what they expect after enjoying one series or book and not take it well if a writer changes their tone or genre for another book or series.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Mimi, did you say you changed pen names? If so I wouldn't expect any genre fans crossing over. ...


It's not the name. I've got a few names. They buy some, but not all. I've got some silly erotica shorts under the pen name Tori and it's the most popular click from my website, more even than my Mimi books, actually.

But seriously, guys, I'm not saying I expected 100% of my romantic comedy readers to also read my sweet/clean romantic comedies. I know those are different genres. I'm just saying that it surprised me that the actual number was less than 1%. If I had to guess, I might have imagined (hoped) 2% to 5% would cross over. YMMV.

In retrospect I realize this was kind of a dumb opening thread post I made. I was feeling lonely today.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

You'd think that writing YA paranormal and urban fantasy for an adults wouldn't be much of a jump. I mean, they're both creature features with chicks in charge and guys who have muscles.

There really is so little crossover between series, and even less if you jump genres. Almost none.

I think now that it's probably most profitable for an author to pick a genre and stick with it until she has enough money to retire (or until it stops earning money), but it's not as fun artistically. I've been behaving myself all year but I'm getting itchy feet. I don't need a big jump. Maybe paranormal thrillers.

NO. Resist!

*sits on Mimalya's hands*


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

SMR said:


> ...
> I think now that it's probably most profitable for an author to pick a genre and stick with it until she has enough money to retire (or until it stops earning money), but it's not as fun artistically. I've been behaving myself all year but I'm getting itchy feet. I don't need a big jump. Maybe paranormal thrillers.
> 
> NO. Resist!
> ...


Yeah, that's the big tradeoff, eh? Like, it's one thing to just say, "Hey, i'll just put out xyz thing that i can probably sell xyz of." But it's another thing to spend 5%, 10%, 30%? of your adult life dedicating all your working hours and much of your thoughts during your non-working time, to some cause.

I've really loved most of my projects. I don't think I have the fortitude to sequel something I don't feel somewhat excited about, artistically, even though that might be where the money is. I mean ... may as well just go get a real job. (Ha ha.)


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that info Mimi. It's very helpful.

I don't get crossover either between my Vivi and Tawny names.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

I've surprised myself with this as a reader - given that I move between genres fairly often in my reading, I always thought I was willing to follow authors to different genres, but I've found that no, I usually don't. What I love about an author's books often doesn't carry over into their new genre, even if the new genre is one I read. (I don't know why this is. I read an urban fantasy the other day by an author whose epic fantasies I enjoyed, and I should have loved it - considering that I love urban fantasy and am only iffy on epic fantasy - but whatever it was that drew me into the epic fantasies just... wasn't there for this book. It confuses me.) And if it's not a genre I read, liking the author's style generally isn't enough to make up for not being interested in the subject matter.



Mimi said:


> I do wonder, sometimes, what happened to all the adults who loved YA.


I'm still here, and hungry for good YA, but I admit to feeling a bit burned out on the genre (as a reader, not a writer) lately. The popularity of YA led to a huge glut of books (both trad and indie), and a lot of them are, frankly, not very good. I'm tired of being burned by halfhearted efforts that look like they were rushed out the door just to make a buck (and the Big 6 are as guilty of this as the indies), so I've been reading and buying less YA overall lately and taking refuge in less-popular genres. (The trends in YA have also been diverging from my tastes more and more - namely, the way it keeps getting more focused on romance.) Maybe other readers feel the same.



chrissponias said:


> I believe that some of your readers should follow your new style after liking your YA books because they are growing up and therefore, they should care about other matters in life. Love should be the next interesting matter for them, but it seems that most readers don't want to grow up and change their habits.


Okay, as a reader who loves YA and and doesn't much care for romance, I take a bit of offense at this. Reading YA doesn't mean being reluctant to grow up, or staying focused on teenage concerns. Readers like YA for lots of different reasons. (I like it primarily because of the genre fluidity - _much _more opportunity for genre-bending and crossovers in YA - and the focus on character growth.) As for not crossing over to romance, it's about different tastes. That's all. The same thing would probably happen if Dalya, or whoever else, were writing romance and mystery, or romance and science fiction.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm one of those terrible readers that writers dread. I LOVE Garth Nix's Old Kingdon books but want nothing to do with The Seventh Tower Series. I loved Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel books but won't read her urban fantasy, or even the Kushiel spinoff that's in the same universe about characters other than Phedre. Adore NK Jemisin's Hundred Thousand Kingdoms, but can't get into The Killing Moon.

I think the only author whose entire backlist I've inhaled is Tamora Pierce. Just one author out of all of those I've read. And I read a _lot_.

It bums me out as an author that readers won't stick with me through various series, but as a reader, I totally get it.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

SMR said:


> ...
> It bums me out as an author that readers won't stick with me through various series, but as a reader, I totally get it.


This is why I'm leaning towards adopting more pen names, and trying to pop up as some fresh-faced newbie wonder that everyone wants to be new besties with, since the mailing list and whatnot doesn't really matter if you're not working in the same series.

The more I learn, the less I know.

Really glad I haven't started writing that new thing, or I'd be deleting it right now, heheh.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

If I like an author, I read their entire backlist, even such non-fiction I can expect to grasp. I baulk at poetry. My library is organised according to author names, and most occupy half a shelf or so. I don't understand not being able to move with an author across genres, because if the author is a good one, then this will transmit to any genre. Craft, imagination and turn of prose stays the same, regardless.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

As a reader, I don't follow my favorite authors when they cross genres unless their books are pretty good in those genres. I have found that most authors I read are really good in one genre and so-so in the rest of the genres they try to tackle. Not sure why.


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## shel (May 14, 2011)

Dalya aka Mimi 

I'm part of your 1%. Thanks for this post, because I found your experience _very_ interesting. Maybe I'm different, but I read broadly--across all kinds of genres--and I'm writing something that's close to finished that's really different from my YA books. I've been torn about what to do about the author name. Just go with the current one for the people who will crossover? Start totally fresh?

I'm still torn, but your experience is more grist for the mill.

Don't give up on, or unpublish your YAs. Everything is cyclical. I predict YA will be big, big, BIG again in 2018.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

This is a question for Mimalya (I still think of you as Dalya, from the early days, but I'm getting used to Mimi   ) and authors like Dara who started out in one genre, then switched and found even greater success in that other genre:

Would you do it all over again?

I suppose knowing what you do now helps answer that, but we see so many threads offering the advice to brand yourself and stick to one genre. However, if the potential for a longer, more sustainable career lies elsewhere, is it necessarily wise to cubbyhole yourself just because you started out in one genre? At some point, if what you've been doing isn't getting any traction, isn't it worth taking a risk and going in a new direction?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> However, if the potential for a longer, more sustainable career lies elsewhere, is it necessarily wise to cubbyhole yourself just because you started out in one genre? At some point, if what you've been doing isn't getting any traction, isn't it worth taking a risk and going in a new direction?


I'm not Dalya, but I have seen her answer this question. Yes, she agreed with you when she answered this before. She said to explore until you find the genre you click in, and then stick if you want, but that you should not feel you had to stick to your first genre. Dalya wrote in middle grade first, and then YA, before she stuck in romance.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I think I might try another genre but what scares me is that whole starting-over bit.
New pen name, new mail list, new web presence.

It would be like being a new author starting all over in this current market. Scary scary proposition!

From an ego perspective, I balk at the pen name thing. I want to be a writer and I want to be able to say "there, I wrote that".  Using a different name is like toiling in obscurity, even if you do end up selling well.


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

Thank you so much for posting this, Dayla! It's so very timely for me it's scary! LOL!  Seriously.

I started out writing sexy romances (some might call them erotic, but I didn't. Just smexy. But then one person's vanilla is another person's HOT, right?  ). I wrote a couple series for small press, then later sold a paranormal trilogy to Harlequin Nocturne under the Patrice Michelle name. A couple years later I wrote a fantasy YA series I LOVED! That was my BRIGHTEST KIND OF DARKNESS series. That's when I decided to go Indie. I don't regret the change. But YES readers did not follow from smexy romance to YA, so I was starting all over after 8 years of writing, but it was by choice, and since it was YA, I created the P.T. Michelle pen name. I had a strong passion for the BKoD series. I still love it with all my heart and am happy I have a following who love it too. Yes, my characters grow up in this series, and by time you get to DESTINY book 3, it's more NA than YA.  But what I did so very much love about writing this YA series is the freedom to dig super deep with my characters, craft a unique subgenre/blended storyline, and bring in all kinds of coming of age stuff...all rolled into one. That has really appealed to me. During the past two years, I also re-released my entire backlist with new covers under my romance name Patrice Michelle. And those did very well, especially once I made book 1 free in the BAD IN BOOTS series. Now I'm at a different cross-road...and that's why this post is so relevant to me.

Knowing what I do now, would I do anything differently? I would've self-pubbed sooner, dang it! But since we can't go backward, I'm looking forward to ways to make my life easier. 98% of my fans range from mid-twenties and up; this is for both my YA and my adult books. I've maintained two separate websites, twitters, FB pages, etc since 2011 when I first self pubbed my YA series. But I needed to make a change to streamline my process, so I polled my YA readers on my FB page and asked them how the felt about me pulling everything under one name P.T. Michelle (which was my YA name they KNEW). In that poll...a few people responded saying that they didn't even know I wrote under another name (even though both names were on my YA covers ) <---That proved to me...some readers just don't jump genres at all. However, 99% agreed that I should pull everything under one name...so long as I labeled the books with "mature content" in the description so they knew what they were getting.

JUST this week, I relaunched my smexy BAD IN BOOTS series under the P.T. Michelle name (am still waiting for Amazon to FIX the covers. The new covers/files are in the LOOK INSIDE feature but not on the Amazon product pages. *sigh* ) , but I did it in a way so that my original readers would see my old pen name and be able to find those books (see banner below. The books are actually uploaded under Patrice Michelle's name though). So I'm still hybriding on names for a bit but at least everything will be under one social name via FB, TWITTER, WEBSITE, etc.

Many YA authors have gone on to transition to NA/Adult works just fine and some authors, who write mostly romance, also write YA under the same name. THAT'S where i want to be. Splitting myself in half has been very hard these past couple of years and it felt like half the time my other fans were waiting and not hearing from me at all in tweets and FB status stuff while I worked on the "other genre's" series. Having them all under ONE name, ONE FB, ONE website, ONE twitter means more to me...because I can still interact and keep them all up to date at once . For me, it's all about the interaction with them no matter what I'm working on.

So this is where I am right now...transitioning. I have no idea how this will go over--my new covers could tank eep! I hope not--but fingers crossed this works for everyone because I need the sanity break! LOL! Here are the new covers in the banner below. And you can see the old ones which are still in my signature line since I haven't fixed it yet.









Okay....that was WAY more long-winded than I intended...


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks for posting this, Mimi (I still just think of you as Dalya...) I think there definitely are some genres between which readers will easily follow an author. However, I do think there are some groups of readers that just tend to be distinct and don't have an interest in making too great a change in their reading habits. I've been speculating about this for a long time, but haven't seen a lot of data to back up my thoughts on which genres are not so cross-over-able, but your post helps somewhat with that. My assumptions are all based on gut feeling (historically the very worst thing to base assumptions on, so take everything I suggest with a sack of salt.)

In my opinion, the genre groups that won't see a lot of crossover are:

erotic to non-erotic (which seems to be the case with you)
literary to plot-driven (which is the case with my two branches of writing, and the reason why I maintain two pen names)
midgrade and younger to YA and older

I think pretty much any other genre groups can see a lot of crossover, as the author's voice and style will mean much more to readers in those groups than the larger, more defining themes of the genres. For example, if an author's readers all found him by reading his sci-fi and then he released a thriller, probably most of his readers would try it out. There are enough basic elements the two genres share that any reader would be likely to enjoy a thriller written by an author he knew he could trust, even if that reader was primarily into sci-fi.

I have very, very few readers who cross over from historical fiction to literary. I actually chose historical fiction as my commercial category specifically because it's the closest in tone and style to literary (or at least the HF I read is...) and I wanted to maximize the odds that readers would buy my lit stuff, too. Generally my most fannish readers of the HF do try out the literary novel and enjoy it, but for the most part it's just too much of a departure from the HF for the majority of readers to find it intriguing. So in 2014 my biggest chore will be to figure out new ways to promote the literary fiction that will tap into a totally different audience.

Sigh...at least we have the ability to try promotional experiments and whatnot. Silver lining. Ugh.

*EDITED TO ADD IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION: * _However_, as much as I do think many readers will follow a writer across _most _ genres, it's important to point out that you have to really establish yourself well in just one genre first, before you try the crossover. That means plenty of books and lots of happy readers with good, steady sales. Depending on how fast one writes and how large one's fanbase is, that could take months or years. It will definitely take multiple titles (multiple as in at least five or six, probably more like ten.)

The reason for this is because it gives readers lots of opportunity to really explore you as a writer and to get to know what you do very well. By sticking to one genre for your first several books, you're holding onto those readers who are usually reluctant to switch genres and allowing them plenty of opportunity to transfer their loyalty from the genre to the author.

I'm a regular listener to The Self-Publishing Podcast and I've gone around and around with the hosts of the show over this issue (via email). One of them is dead-set on establishing his brand as "the guy who can write anything well," and he feels very confident that he can reach out and grab only those fans who care about HIM as a writer and not the genre. I think that is possible to do, but it will take much longer and be much more frustrating than establishing yourself very strongly in a single genre first, capturing the hearts of readers who think they're genre-loyal (but aren't, necessarily) and then taking them along into a new genre. We may never agree on it. 

I'm just basing this all, as I said already, on observation. There are authors who cross over very successfully and make leaps between disparate genres with their fandoms intact. However, all of them started out by establishing themselves firmly in one genre first, putting out a large and highly acclaimed body of work, and then jumping. Orson Scott Card (I know; boo-hiss) is a good example. Started out by clearly establishing himself in sci-fi, and eventually went to fantasy, then historical fantasy, alternate history, contemporary thriller, historical thriller, alternate-history-thriller-thingy, etc. Yes, it might be argued that Card (and other TP authors like him) had the backing of publishers and that's why they were successful at genre-jumping, but I think it's likelier that publishers are reluctant to allow this kind of thing, and that the success of such a maneuver depends entirely on the readers being willing to buy, not on publishers being willing to promote. Which means that we can do it, too.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I think the solution might be to use a variant of your real name for the pen name and direct them all to just one Facebook page, Twitter, website, etc. 

The only place a pen name is really necessary is on a separate vendor author page so that your fans don't get confused on what each pen name offers. I would make each name recognizable as me. 

Cherise Kelley
Cherise Rae Kelley
Rae Kelley
CR Kelley
Cheri Rae  <<< Really like this one! Sounds Southern


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Mimi said:


> I do wonder, sometimes, what happened to all the adults who loved YA.


I think they're still out there. My sister is totally embarrassed by the fact that she can't stop reading YA novels. She fills up her Kindle with 'em like they're crack and then reads each one in about two days. I keep telling her to believe me that this is TOTALLY NORMAL and MOST readers of YA are actually adult women. She doesn't believe me. Ha ha.



JVRoberts said:


> YA to Erotica, that's quite the leap!
> 
> Does anyone know of any male authors that have made the leap into Erotic fiction and been successful, random question, but I'm curious. I mean...I have stories...but they are all borne of personal conquest and I'm sure the genre requires a certain touch when it comes to how the "key scenes" are written. I heard someone once say men are too "crude" to write erotica.


There are a few men in erotica who have quite enthusiastic fan bases, yes. Alexsandr Voinov is one I can think of and I'm not even a reader of the genre. But he has name recognition. Granted, that's in gay erotica, so I don't know if that's what you're interested in writing. Most readers of gay erotica are actually straight-identified women, so maybe it is the audience you're after. I don't know how well they cross over into hetero erotica.

But yes, men can be very successful writing erotica. I'd probably recommend a different pen name for branding purposes, just because of the sharp divide between erotica and other genres (see my post above).


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

<<I think the solution might be to use a variant of your real name for the pen name and direct them all to just one Facebook page, Twitter, website, etc>>

Yep, this is what I did. Just wished I'd done it sooner. LOL!


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Mimi said:


> Really glad I haven't started writing that new thing, or I'd be deleting it right now, heheh.


Okay, this makes me very sad. 



Quiss said:


> I think I might try another genre but what scares me is that whole starting-over bit.
> New pen name, new mail list, new web presence.
> 
> It would be like being a new author starting all over in this current market. Scary scary proposition!
> ...


I've gone back and forth on the pen name, and I've decided that when I start writing thrillers, I'm going to stay under the same name. I don't know if it makes sense or not. I only know how I feel when I find out an author has a pen name. Mad. Because they've been HIDING books from me for all this time.

I don't find that I cross genres much with the, er, "fluffy" authors that I read. Like I dug Richelle Meade's Morgainville Vampires, but I didn't think they had much meat to them, so I never moved beyond that series. However, the Uglies series was brilliant and deep and thought-provoking (plus wildly entertaining), so I read everything that Scott Westerfeld had published, pretty much. I suppose that my feeling is that if there's deeper themes in the story that really speak to me, I know that no matter what genre the author writes in, they'll have interesting insights into humanity. But if it's just entertaining fluff (nothing wrong with that), I figure I've probably heard everything they have to say.

Thing is... I feel very alone right now and very weird. I know I'm neither a typical reader nor a typical writer. I was rereading some reviews of Breathless, my first "hit," and all of the reviews, even the positive ones, go out of their way to warn people off the book. They're all like, "I LOVED this, but it's not for everyone." Funny thing is, I really don't think of that book as being very, um, offensive. I think it's very, very tame. I've barely scratched the surface of the places I want to go in fiction... But today, I feel sad about it, because I feel like maybe I'm too weird for the world and maybe I push too far and maybe I'll never appeal to enough people to make a living unless I water myself down. I'd like to believe that there's an audience for dark, edgy stuff, and I hope that they are waiting for me in the thriller genre. I hope that I've been having so much trouble because I've been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole (dark, edgy romance? That's not even a thing, right?)

Anyway, I'm going to switch genres. Big switch. And I don't expect any of my readers to follow me. But since they barely buy anything that I write now, I'm hoping it won't be too much of a setback.

What you're saying up there about starting over, though, Quiss? Yeah. I'm feeling that. And I'm terrified.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Cherise Kelley said:


> I think the solution might be to use a variant of your real name for the pen name and direct them all to just one Facebook page, Twitter, website, etc.
> 
> The only place a pen name is really necessary is on a separate vendor author page so that your fans don't get confused on what each pen name offers. I would make each name recognizable as me.
> 
> ...


Hmm, this is what I'm wondering about myself. My NaNo book is Contemporary/Literary Fiction. Going that direction allows me to explore a much wider ranger of topics, reach a potentially bigger audience and spend far less time toiling away on research that may or may not make it in the book. It's been a liberating experience, because I've actually wanted to do this for awhile, but felt a certain loyalty to my HF fans.

P.T.'s experience with using slightly different pen names makes me wonder which direction to go, as far as names. I know Holly Ward changed all her titles over to one name eventually, too. It would be fascinating to hear her take on writing in different genres and crossover in readership, but I know she's dealing with some medical issues lately. (Get well, Holly!)

Yet Mimi/Dalya, you still use different pen names. I know you were sort of thrashing about, lamenting the fact that the carryover was smaller than you expected, but this is still valuable information for the rest of us to mull over.



> <<I think the solution might be to use a variant of your real name for the pen name and direct them all to just one Facebook page, Twitter, website, etc>>
> 
> Yep, this is what I did. Just wished I'd done it sooner.


Thanks for your input, P.T. It really helps with the dilemma I think a lot of us are facing as we contemplate new directions.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> Okay, this makes me very sad.
> 
> I've gone back and forth on the pen name, and I've decided that when I start writing thrillers, I'm going to stay under the same name. I don't know if it makes sense or not. I only know how I feel when I find out an author has a pen name. Mad. Because they've been HIDING books from me for all this time.
> 
> ...


I think you're confusing Mead with Caine. I will say this, 90% of my reads are fluffy authors but one of my all time favorites indie authors (of the four that are on my auto-buy list) writes quirky, dark edgy paranormal romance. I auto-buy her because I can NEVER find another author who writes like she does. The closest I've seen is L.K. Hamilton. So unique & edgy in a market that's all fluffy could be good.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

I decided not to start over with a pen-name when I switched genres and I'm glad I didn't.  Most of my readers do not want to read my SF books, like I only sell about one book a day of each SF book, but still, that's 100-150 books a month. So eh. I'll have better results to report after the last book in the SF series goes live.  But I don't spent any time on them now that the last book is done and I make a few hundred bucks a month, so whatever.  Plus my current fans have no problem pushing my SF stuff if I ask.  They might not buy it, but they share the hell out of it if I ask nicely.

BookBub loves my SF stuff - I'd never get a BB ad if it wasn't for Junco.


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## Blerch (Oct 17, 2013)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Mimi, did you say you changed pen names? If so I wouln't expect any genre fans crossing over. They mostly don't even know you're the same writer.
> 
> ...


I'm in a similar boat, just newer (only 1.5 complete works out). Buuuut, I can't stick with just fantasy, or sci fi, or subgenres within. I have ideas to continue my urban fantasy, for a YA urban fantasy, for a steampunk post-apoc, an alternative timeline post-apoc, a YA space exploration/military book... ahhhh, too many ideas! Must write them all!

But yeah. I can't see myself sticking to just Urban Fantasy or even Fantasy, I read all sci-fi and fantasy growing up. Seems they stuck with me enough to keep writing them.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

I think the far more interesting question is whether or not people would cease reading books of an author who writes in different genres with the same name. 

If someone comes to know an author as e.g. writing scifi, and then later learns that they also wrote fantasy and also thrillers, would they stop buying the scifi? That is far more interesting than whether they also would buy the other genres. For if they don't, and I think they don't (except maybe if we talk erotica), then there's no reason for multiple pennames. Or at least not for so many.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I can't help but wonder if the pen names are the problem for a lot of this.

Yeah, I get putting some separation between things you don't want to necessarily bleed over, but if you actually _want_ people to follow you, isn't the pen name a barrier?

How do you think readers figure your pen names out? Is it in back matter? On your website? I'm not sure anyone but your most hardcore fans are ever going to notice that you're also another person. A lot of readers... don't read anything but the book. They read the book, look at the cover and go 'ah, Writer McAuthorson wrote this. I liked it, therefore I will go to Amazon and search for Writer McAuthorson'. They don't know or care to dig deeper to find out that Writer McAuthorson is also Other Genre's own superstar, Author O'Writington.

You'd be shocked how many people don't even know that King has a pen name--or the pen names are a widespread thing. And when you stop and thing about it, discarding the marketing buzzwords and meta-considerations, isn't that the whole point?


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

I have all of my major works under one pseudonym, and I still don't see much crossover between series.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Vaalingrade said:


> I can't help but wonder if the pen names are the problem for a lot of this.
> 
> Yeah, I get putting some separation between things you don't want to necessarily bleed over, but if you actually _want_ people to follow you, isn't the pen name a barrier?
> 
> ...


I think the #1 rule for not crossing genres with the same name is if you write some younger YA (i.e. not edgy New Adult-ish YA) and then go to naughty billionaires. No brainer, everyone on the board here will agree on that, and the board rarely agrees.

I didn't include my methodology for testing in the original post, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people think I've missed some crucial opportunities (we are a hopeful bunch), so here is my methodology: I have multiple Amazon affiliate codes, and I've tested the cross-over through a number of methods, including but not limited to Facebook posts, blog posts, and putting BOTH pen names on the older YA books and cross-linking them on the vendor sites for set periods. My findings from the test runs are that far fewer than 1% of readers crossed over during those tests.

I am simply reporting the results from my sampling. A sampling will give enough data to let a person draw conclusions about their entire potential market. Also, there is the issue of branding. I can tell from my sampling that it's NOT WORTH selling 5 additional books per month, to muddy the more profitable brand name by presenting material that 4 out of 5 of those purchasers would probably realize they bought by accident, thinking it was something else.

Numbers never lie. 

My takeaway:

One pen name is still best, unless one target market would be horrified by some of your books. (Young YA vs Erotica)

Maybe 5% of the people who bought your stand-alone book will sign up for your mailing list. (I think the number is much higher for series.) Maybe 10% of those people will then buy your new stand-alone, non-series release when you email the announcement. If you sell 1,000 copies of ebook #1, that gives you 5 sales of ebook #2 right out of the gate.

I know. Please. Don't fall out of your chair with excitement over those 5 sales! It's better than nothing. Perhaps a similar percent will find out through your Facebook page. Maybe the Amazon gods will smile upon you as their new favored child and send out an email. Anything can happen! Just hang in there, little prawns!


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

When I went YA fantasy/paranormal/dystopian to NA Romance, I expected all my fans to just rush over there with me.  I kept the same pen name and made big announcements all over the places.  Most of my readers are adults.

At first very few went at all.  Only when I hit the BS lists did they begrudgingly go over and download a book to try it.  Then I eventually won some of them over.  Some say they're new converts to the genre, others say they'll read it because I wrote it but they're not big fans of the genre and they want me to write more fantasy (which I have planned for next year.)

Very few of my new-to-me romance fans cross over into the Fantasy stuff, but the ones that do seem happy they did from the notes I'm getting.  Some are people who never read that genre but most are already fans of it.

When it was a very slow crossover in the beginning, it was a bit of an unpleasant surprise, but I didn't let it get me down.  I priced my first book aggressively and spent some $$ promoting it and basically started all over.  Luckily there are some fantastic bloggers in the romance genre that make the work of finding new readers much easier.

I think it was a bit easier for me to find crossover readers because my YA stuff is much grittier than Mimi's.  Lots of foul language, violence, and some sexy stuff.  I think people who like that kind of fantasy are more apt to try romance.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> When I went YA fantasy/paranormal/dystopian to NA Romance, I expected all my fans to just rush over there with me. I kept the same pen name and made big announcements all over the places. Most of my readers are adults.
> 
> At first very few went at all. Only when I hit the BS lists did they begrudgingly go over and download a book to try it. Then I eventually won some of them over. Some say they're new converts to the genre, others say they'll read it because I wrote it but they're not big fans of the genre and they want me to write more fantasy (which I have planned for next year.)
> 
> ...


I've watched your career Elle, and I'm following suit.

Under my Tawny STokes name I write gritty, dark paranormal YA, and I am going to be putting out my first NA in January. It's gritty and dark. So I'm hoping my readers will follow, and that the readers I gain with my NA will go back and try my YA. At least that's the wish and hope....


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

I do think that if you transition your books like you both said (Elle and Vivi) , ie with the grittier stuff, then your readers are more apt to try your other work, especially if they all have an underlying theme..ie romance that readers can relate to. The way I prefaced the change over to my upper YA readers (which is very true about me as well) is: _I figure you all are like me and read across many genres. I'm happy as long as there is some romance in my books. It doesn't have to be a lot...the romance doesn't have to be the main focus...it can just be a very small part of the story, or it can be front and center, or the story can be really gritty and the romance hot. I'm good with all kinds so long as I know the story I'm getting up front via the description. So what do you think about me pulling all my work under one FB page, twitter, website?_


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm so glad Elle chimed in! It's been really neat to watch her get into contemporary romance.

This whole discussion has been really great, especially hearing others' findings. 

I'm still uncertain about what project I should do next. I'm excited about a few ideas, but some of them are getting away from my main genre.

I have a decent-sized FB following and mailing list. It's possible 2% of those people will buy a new release from me on opening day. If I release another romantic comedy, I could get that 2%. However, if I release an erotic thriller, I might also get 2%. They would likely be a different 2%, and maybe .005% would complain to me by email or FB that the new book wasn't a comedy. 

The sad thing about us authors (forgive me for generalizing) is that getting even one email from a disappointed reader could ruin half a day, LOL.

It's funny .... all the things we won't do because we're afraid of that single, day-ruining email.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Mimi said:


> It's funny .... all the things we won't do because we're afraid of that single, day-ruining email.


Careful. That way lies madness. Seriously.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> This is a question for Mimalya (I still think of you as Dalya, from the early days, but I'm getting used to Mimi  ) and authors like Dara who started out in one genre, then switched and found even greater success in that other genre:
> 
> Would you do it all over again?


Absolutely, I'd jump genres again. If I hadn't gone from historical mystery, to contemporary fairytales, to sword & sorcery I'd never have found out that S&S is what sells for me. I'd still be laboring away at books only a limited number of readers are picking up. I think the key here is, are you (general you) happy with the direction your numbers are going? Me, I wasn't completely. I felt I had little to lose by experimenting and it turned out to be the right decision. But now I've found a sweet spot I don't see myself making another big jump. I've got a readership to risk, something I didn't have to worry about in the old days of 2011 and 2012.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> I can't help but wonder if the pen names are the problem for a lot of this.


I doubt that's the case in my situation. I make it very clear on my web sites and in the back matter of all my books that I have two different pen names, so it's not like readers of my HF don't know that I also write literary fiction.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> I doubt that's the case in my situation. I make it very clear on my web sites and in the back matter of all my books that I have two different pen names, so it's not like readers of my HF don't know that I also write literary fiction.


That was the second part of my question though: how many of your readers check the back matter and website? It just feels like a lot of casual fans are going to miss it.

Even knowing what authors use back matter for, I very rarely bother with it and I can count on one hand how many author websites I've visited because I like their books.


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## Blerch (Oct 17, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> I doubt that's the case in my situation. I make it very clear on my web sites and in the back matter of all my books that I have two different pen names, so it's not like readers of my HF don't know that I also write literary fiction.


Until recently, I didn't read the back matter in books, nor did I visit author websites. Even for my favorite authors I didn't do that, unless it was a new favorite and I needed to see what else they may have written.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Most people skip the back matter, I'm convinced of it.  I have people emailing and messaging me all day asking questions about publication dates that are on the page after the last page of the story in my latest release.  It makes me crazy!  I have another pen name Kat Lee with one book that everyone who reads it seems to like ... but that's a small group of people.  No one bothers to read my author bio and see the other name I mention in there.  Maybe one fan in 1,000 does.  

So my advice is to use the same pen name for everything, unless you write really sexy sexy erotica and also kids books.  Those need to be separated IMHO.


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## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

I am discovering this to be true. My fairy tales and new adults sell very well, everything else is very lackluster by comparison. Sort of depressing really. I'm finding I basically have to promote each new series the way I did the very first ones… I'd hoped at some point that having a broader fan base would help me, but not really. My readers have their favorites and that's about it.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> Most people skip the back matter, I'm convinced of it. I have people emailing and messaging me all day asking questions about publication dates that are on the page after the last page of the story in my latest release. It makes me crazy! I have another pen name Kat Lee with one book that everyone who reads it seems to like ... but that's a small group of people. No one bothers to read my author bio and see the other name I mention in there. Maybe one fan in 1,000 does.
> 
> So my advice is to use the same pen name for everything, unless you write really sexy sexy erotica and also kids books. Those need to be separated IMHO.


Mine read the back matter, (I get fan mail daily) but because my books deal with factual (angels or history) topics, I think the references are important to them. But yes, I agree brand one name, it's so much easier.

I'm writing what I enjoy writing although I am working on adding more romance to please the readers. I'm also tying in all my genres under the tag line _Lisa Grace "Where good meets evil"_ since that is a unifying theme that runs across all my genres.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I'm writing what I enjoy writing although I am working on adding more romance to please the readers. I'm also tying in all my genres under the tag line _Lisa Grace "Where good meets evil"_ since that is a unifying theme that runs across all my genres.


Regardless of your genre, across the board, you're using one pen name

I had to reread your above paragraph because that's what I've wanted to do -- to use ONE NAME for all my genres -- I write unrelated genres (suspense/thriller, historical, women's, nonfiction) BUT BUT BUT I've been told by several lit agents that it would cause "confusion" among my future readers. They told me to either drop all my genres and just pick one, or use pen names for every genre. That's four pen names. I've always believed that my readers are smart and intelligent and can figure out the difference between a historical fiction and a suspense/thriller. I don't have time to manage multiple pen-names and to keep up with all the Twitter handles and Facebook pages, and write! 

I was much disheartened. But if you can do this, and others have done it, then it's POSSIBLE!!!!! I don't have to rebrand myself everytime I publish a new genre. I have them all lined up in piles at various stages of rewriting, revision, edits, etc. I thought I had to shelf all my pet works and only choose a favorite. How to choose a favorite when they are all my favorites LOL!

Love your tagline! My tagline on my website is this: "International Thrillers. Regional History. Inspirational Books." I was hoping it would cover everything I have written, currently writing, and will write.

What's everybody else's tagline if you're criss-crossing genres?


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

JanThompson said:


> What's everybody else's tagline if you're criss-crossing genres?


Mine's "the many worlds of Christine Pope." I figured that should cover it. 

I use one pen name because everything I write is romance, just different sub-genres, whether fantasy romance, science fiction romance, paranormal, etc. I have a few hardcore people who seem to read everything I write, and others who just follow a particular series. While the heat level of the romances does vary depending on the series and the characters involved, it's not so extreme that I'm really worried about it (I don't write super-spicy stuff anyway).


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Tagline: Novels showcasing the sublime joy and bitter tragedy of being human.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

ChristinePope said:


> Mine's "the many worlds of Christine Pope." I figured that should cover it.
> 
> I use one pen name because everything I write is romance, just different sub-genres, whether fantasy romance, science fiction romance, paranormal, etc. I have a few hardcore people who seem to read everything I write, and others who just follow a particular series. While the heat level of the romances does vary depending on the series and the characters involved, it's not so extreme that I'm really worried about (I don't write super-spicy stuff anyway).


I like that tagline! That's really cool that your underlying theme (romance) gives you a lot of freedom to write in many genres!



Caddy said:


> Tagline: Novels showcasing the sublime joy and bitter tragedy of being human.


Cool! Being human can definitely cross time and space and genres! (Love your covers BTW!)


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

This is such a great discussion! I'll chime in with my experience too, which seems to be a little different to Mimi's and Elle's.

I write historical romance and YA historical paranormal romance under my CJ Archer name. I get some cross-over between the genres, more than Mimi's 1% but no more than 10%. I can't give hard percentages because I don't change my affiliate code like Mimi does. My YA trilogy sells consistently above my HRs even a year after the last book came out, but that could be because the first is permafree. Some of my HR titles are more popular than others. I think that could be the tropes in those books.

I recently started contemporary NA under CJ Scott. I told my historical fans, and offered freebies of it on my FB page. I couldn't even give away 10 copies. That name is struggling even thought book 1 is only 99c. So lesson learned - writing in popular genres doesn't automatically mean you will sell books. Also, my historical readers have NOT crossed over. At all.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> What's everybody else's tagline if you're criss-crossing genres?


I didn't even think about it until this thread, but man, an author tagline is genius!

Hmm... this unit will have to consider this carefully.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

valeriec80 said:


> Okay, this makes me very sad.


As for me cancelling my project, I think I've come around.

I sold about a jillion copies of my New Adult-ish novel For You in the spring. I put out another erotic romance in June and sold 66 copies on opening day, then 40 the next day. The new book wasn't a sequel to the first, nor was it 100% identical in genre, though even if it had been, I had NO WAY to contact the jillion people who bought For You, assuming they even liked it.

Based on my records, my author name is currently worth about $400 annually, per book, assuming it's romance. If I write under a new pen name, that's the opportunity cost. My promotion network is worth less than a single Bookbub ad, but you can't book those for new releases, so I'll take what I can get.

The sad truth is that a very tiny % of readers will sign up for our newsletters and Facebook alerts, and we indies have no co-op advertising to purchase on digital front tables. There's a reason trad-pubs pay big money for placement.

I'll have a good launch coming up with the 3rd book in a trilogy, and then when my next book comes out, which won't be part of a series, I'll be back at square one. Most people will wait until six people urge them to read it, even if they've liked my other work. The only advantage I have over a brand-new author is a "bestseller" title to my name, and a small but valued group of fans who WILL pick up my new thing, plus book blogger contacts for reviews. That's not nothing.

I predict that if 5% of my newsletter (7,000 subscribers, and only because I do plenty of promo for the newsletter plus ended one book on a cliffhanger) will buy my next romantic comedy, probably 5% will buy my book if it's an erotic thriller. They might not be the same 5%, but that's fine by me. Maybe I have to tap into a new pool of readers. So be it.

If the cover is hot and the blurb is appealing, I might get some Amazon action. These books live or die within the first 48 hours, I swear. They push up or push down and very little will change the trajectory. Many people will immediately do a 99-cent sale. I've done it. But the downside is you're selling books for 99 cents. Will they be read? Will the people who impulse buy for 99 cents go on to buy your relatively expensive (har har) 2.99 book? Survey says ... not in large numbers.

A series is great, but it's bottlenecked by book 1.

I have some ideas for 2014 that are too tacky to discuss on a forum, but I'm excited about trying some new things.

ETA: Also, despite all the business talk from one side of my brain, I really do love creating stories and characters and bringing a novel to life ... and all that craft talk. It's just that my creative side gets pouty if nobody buys/reads the new book, and my muse throws a tantrum, so I need to take care of the house.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

JanThompson said:


> Regardless of your genre, across the board, you're using one pen name
> 
> I had to reread your above paragraph because that's what I've wanted to do -- to use ONE NAME for all my genres -- I write unrelated genres (suspense/thriller, historical, women's, nonfiction) BUT BUT BUT I've been told by several lit agents that it would cause "confusion" among my future readers. They told me to either drop all my genres and just pick one, or use pen names for every genre. That's four pen names. I've always believed that my readers are smart and intelligent and can figure out the difference between a historical fiction and a suspense/thriller. I don't have time to manage multiple pen-names and to keep up with all the Twitter handles and Facebook pages, and write!
> 
> ...


I like how the tone of this thread has turned. I would also loathe the idea of rebranding myself and maintaining several names, Twitters, Facebooks, mailing lists and all that. And if I can have it my way (which because I'm indie, I can!) I won't have to do that unless I decide to write for kids. But like some of you have said, underneath, the heart and soul of the stories are so much the same. It's not so much that I expect everyone to cross-over every time, but just that I want my name on all of them. They're mine. I don't want to pretend to be someone else just because some of them are a little different than others.

Okay, well, maybe some are a lot different than others, lol! A couple of my WIPs might be a bit of a stretch from the women's fic sphere. After I finish the current set of contemporary/lit/women's fic stories I'm working on, I have two sci-fi ideas I want to try. But I swear, in my head, they're all the same kind of stories. Same emotional resonance, same tone, same writing style, same humor. One is a futuristic alien war drama series, and the other is a metafiction/interdimensional travel saga. But they're still the same silly/serious relationship dramas, you know?

But with appropriate cover design and clear blurbs, I think I can trust my readers to pick out which ones have aliens and which ones don't, and if that matters to them or not.

I love everyone's taglines! I do have a tagline, which I have in my sig. *look down*


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> Cool! Being human can definitely cross time and space and genres! (Love your covers BTW!)


Thank you, Jan.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Huh, never thought about a tag line.... maybe 

"better then having your heart cut out with a spoon"

or I could take the line form a recent 1 star review and go with..

"Where Rambo meets Harry Potter"


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

VydorScope said:


> "Where Rambo meets Harry Potter"


Critically acclaimed!!!!!


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Mimi said:


> ETA: Also, despite all the business talk from one side of my brain, I really do love creating stories and characters and bringing a novel to life ... and all that craft talk. It's just that my creative side gets pouty if nobody buys/reads the new book, and my muse throws a tantrum, so I need to take care of the house.


This is basically me too.

Plus, while I write for myself, I also write to communicate with other people. If I didn't want people to read what I wrote and hear my words, I wouldn't bother writing it down or publishing it. Seriously. I can lie on my bed and daydream these people's conversations for my own benefit, and it doesn't hurt my hands and shoulders.  So, when it feels like no one is reading, I start getting sort of mopey.

BTW, thanks for that post in general. It's easy to think that once you've had a big hit that things are all cupcakes and dandelions and nothing is ever difficult again. So, you've made me feel less bad about myself. I keep thinking that _obviously_, if I had a series that did relatively well, and then none of the stuff I wrote afterwards in that vein did well at all, then it must mean that book wasn't actually good or anything, it was just a fluke, and that I suck lots and lots. Now, I'm thinking that maybe it's just tough out there, the end.

So... with this erotic psychological thriller thing, is this like Fatal Attraction or more like the Crossfire series or what? (I am so intrigued. I hope you write it!!)


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Critically acclaimed!!!!!


Ha! Yes!


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Laura Rae Amos said:


> I like how the tone of this thread has turned. I would also loathe the idea of rebranding myself and maintaining several names, Twitters, Facebooks, mailing lists and all that. And if I can have it my way (which because I'm indie, I can!) I won't have to do that unless I decide to write for kids. But like some of you have said, underneath, the heart and soul of the stories are so much the same. It's not so much that I expect everyone to cross-over every time, but just that I want my name on all of them. They're mine. I don't want to pretend to be someone else just because some of them are a little different than others.
> 
> Okay, well, maybe some are a lot different than others, lol! A couple of my WIPs might be a bit of a stretch from the women's fic sphere. After I finish the current set of contemporary/lit/women's fic stories I'm working on, I have two sci-fi ideas I want to try. But I swear, in my head, they're all the same kind of stories. Same emotional resonance, same tone, same writing style, same humor. One is a futuristic alien war drama series, and the other is a metafiction/interdimensional travel saga. But they're still the same silly/serious relationship dramas, you know?
> 
> ...


Great tagline! To the point!

That's a great point re: distinguishable cover design and blurbs. I'll keep that in mind. I like the idea of having a thematic cover design for the entire series/genre so each genre with the same author name is distinguishable from the others, but for me it also saves $$$ if I don't need the designer to create entirely different cover for every book... 

I agree re: "the heart and soul of the stories are so much the same." That's so true across genres. Human nature remains the same. Even robots and animals are often personified.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

JanThompson said:


> What's everybody else's tagline if you're criss-crossing genres?


"Everyday heroism in the darkest places." (It's also in my sig.)

It took me ages to settle on one that was likely to suit everything I wrote. I don't plan on switching genres (at least not out of YA/NA spec fic - but YA/NA spec fic can encompass a lot  ), but if I ever do, the tagline will almost certainly still fit.

I recommend the process of developing a tagline - marketing aside, it can really help you clarify your themes.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> Most people skip the back matter, I'm convinced of it. I have people emailing and messaging me all day asking questions about publication dates that are on the page after the last page of the story in my latest release. It makes me crazy! I have another pen name Kat Lee with one book that everyone who reads it seems to like ... but that's a small group of people. No one bothers to read my author bio and see the other name I mention in there. Maybe one fan in 1,000 does.
> 
> So my advice is to use the same pen name for everything, unless you write really sexy sexy erotica and also kids books. Those need to be separated IMHO.


Absolutely. I get readers ask me if there are any more books in the series! I'm like "What the hell is that ten title list in the back for?" So on the very last page of my story I put a couple of links right after "the end" that if clicked go to "more titles" page directly. That way they don't even have to press the fwd page button!

Seriously, some people read the last word then hit the kindle home button looking for their next fix and never read the back matter.

EDIT: I have always used the one name and write in three different genres. My sci-fi is my most popular, but the others are okay too. You have to make sure that you bring something out in each genre (not too far apart) to keep every type of fan happy, or you will start getting people accusing you of abandoning them or their genre.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

These lists used to go inside the books, onto the first or second pages, before the title page. There they tended to be read.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

removed


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

Mimi said:


> A series is great, but it's bottlenecked by book 1.


This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series. And really, some of the best series start with books that you would have thought couldn't be sequelled (Wool, anybody?).

ETA: Also, this thread has made me realise how dumb I was for thinking my art fans would jump across to my books. Talk about a genre leap!


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series. And really, some of the best series start with books that you would have thought couldn't be sequelled (Wool, anybody?).
> 
> ETA: Also, this thread has made me realise how dumb I was for thinking my art fans would jump across to my books. Talk about a genre leap!


It's possible that once it's complete, a series can get a new bump. Some people on the boards here have reported that happening.

However, we never hear much from the people who just give up after 280,000 words and find something else to do with their lives after their opus never went anywhere. Survivorship bias clouds everything.

The readers can confuse us, as well. You might get the greatest amount of positive, personal interaction for your least popular project, sales-wise. It warps your perception of demand. Keep in mind that people will ask for more of what's hard to find, and *that thing* is hard to find because publishers and the business-minded don't invest in quirky whatevers that don't have mainstream appeal.

The long-tail economic theory is an interesting concept, but you want to be the aggregator, i.e. be Amazon, not the quirky author slaving away over books for the end of the tail. I'm speaking of myself and my experience (I can be rather quirky), and not anyone else in particular.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Nic said:


> These lists used to go inside the books, onto the first or second pages, before the title page. There they tended to be read.


Yes, that was before amazon look inside made the real estate at the front more important for reader sampling. My paperbacks DO still stick with the traditional method, while the ebooks have a link in the TOC to remind readers there IS a full list of other titles at the back.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series. And really, some of the best series start with books that you would have thought couldn't be sequelled (Wool, anybody?).
> 
> ETA: Also, this thread has made me realise how dumb I was for thinking my art fans would jump across to my books. Talk about a genre leap!


Good thing I didn't listen to advice like that. 

War of the Fae became 7 books long, but not because I waited until book 1 took off. I had 3 books written before I sold a lot of copies. Lots of readers actively search out series, so if they see there's only book 1, they'll skip it to find a series. I was one of those readers back when I read a lot (no time now).

Amazon has a "series" category, so obviously readers are searching for them in appreciable numbers. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother.

Here's the cold hard deal, applicable to everyone writing: regardless of whether it's a single book or a series of books, it needs to be a GOOD book. The storytelling needs to be engaging, the plot interesting, the characters believable. If you have all of this done and done well, you'll find readers. But you'll probably find MORE readers if it's a series. My data bears that out and I'm reading and hearing other things from other high-volume selling authors that lend support to that statement.

On the other hand, if your book isn't written well, if it's boring, if it has problems with the writing or characters or plot or blurb or sample or cover, it doesn't matter if it's a single book or a series. No one is going to buy it after the initial bad reviews come out calling attention to the deficiencies.

So for me, deciding whether to continue with a series or to write a book 1 for a new series would first include a cold, hard analysis of the existing first book itself as far as quality is concerned. Is it a good book that will make readers want to keep reading? Or is it a book people don't finish, don't like, don't care about what happens next? Look at the reader reviews, all of them. They'll tell you what's to like and not like. If it's captivating readers, if you get people complaining about little issues that don't really matter for buy-through, continue with the series. If reviews say it's not captivating, not bringing them in and making them care about your world/characters, I'd abandon it and move on or do a complete re-write and have Amazon push the new version to all old buyers and try again. But I would never just keep writing book 1s waiting for one of them to catch on. Readers will see that all you do is write incomplete series and they'll run the opposite direction. No one likes being left hanging in the reading world.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series. And really, some of the best series start with books that you would have thought couldn't be sequelled (Wool, anybody?).
> 
> ETA: Also, this thread has made me realise how dumb I was for thinking my art fans would jump across to my books. Talk about a genre leap!


Selena, just read some of your reviews. You are getting fantastic feedback, both good and "helpful", on your reviews. I'd pay attention to what your readers are saying because they are giving you pure gold in there for future books/writing! And it's the first time I've ever read comments about illustrations; sounds like that was a great decision to put those in there. I'd buy the book for that reason alone because the comments even the lower starred ones were so effusive with compliments on your drawing skills.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out.


Respectfully, I have to disagree strongly with this even though it seems to make logical sense. My experience is that book one DOESN'T ever break out in a series UNTIL book three appears, because series readers are a special breed. They don't like to invest time in a book one until they're sure there are other books in the wings ready for them to read. It's the old chicken and egg. You HAVE to have a good book one to hook a reader, but if you expect that book to hit big you have to have a series ready to go.

I didn't know this when I did it. I released my book and sales were mediocre. When I released the next one anyway, (because I had it nearly done and why not?) sales of both books went way up. The third book came out and finally the series "broke out" not that it did really if you consider breaking out to be best seller status, but it broke out enough to allow me to write full time.

So basically, if you're aiming at series readers, you need a series not simply a book one. Sounds obvious, but that's it.

If I had a new series to do now, I would write two books first, release one, and then the second within 3 months of the first. By that time book three should be nearly ready, and I would release that 3 months after book two.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series. And really, some of the best series start with books that you would have thought couldn't be sequelled (Wool, anybody?).
> 
> ETA: Also, this thread has made me realise how dumb I was for thinking my art fans would jump across to my books. Talk about a genre leap!


Just bought both the paperbacks. After reading the reviews and part of the sample, I decided this is a series I think I can read with my kids and we'll all like it.  Love the writing style and the couple illustrations I saw were fab. Such a rarety in books these days.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing through to finish a series on faith. I'm wrapping up book 3 of a trilogy right now. A true economist would have observed the data and cut it to 2 or cancelled and left town, but I'm pushing through.  

I've seen some trilogies do really well when the first book isn't obviously a series lead-in and doesn't have a cliffhanger, because then you don't get as many people waiting until the end, perhaps.


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

ellecasey said:


> Just bought both the paperbacks. After reading the reviews and part of the sample, I decided this is a series I think I can read with my kids and we'll all like it.  Love the writing style and the couple illustrations I saw were fab. Such a rarety in books these days.


Thank you. Now I'll do my best not to freak out that Elle Casey might read my books. 

My husband has a very business oriented mind, but he also isn't particularly informed regarding the writing industry itself, so he doesn't see the sort of things that authors with experience see. But I do see merit in his opinion. It comes down to branding again in a way, much like the original post. When an author creates a series, that's sort of the strongest brand of all. Their readers know they are getting that author's writing, the characters they love, the world they love. Seeing full sets of well branded series covers is also very appealing. Not only does it say to a reader "this author gets stuff done", I think it also has the extra hidden message saying "these books must be popular if there are so many", and people love to be into what's popular. But does an author necessarily have to write in series as long as they keep their brand strong, and books in very similar genre, targeting the same readers? Just look at J.K Rowling (who I can't believe no one has mentioned in this thread yet!). After her Harry Potter books were done, imagine, if instead of "A Casual Vacancy" she went on to write another YA fantasy series with a similar feel to HP. It wouldn't even need to include any of the same characters, or even be in the same universe, for readers to jump right on board (I think, anyway). 
I'm sure lots of her readers buy and read her other stuff anyway just because she is such a big name, but I hope my point is clear. The topic also brings to mind Holly Black's career (I'm not an expert, just casual observations!). Starting strong with the Spiderwick Chronicles (fairies), she went onto write the Ironside trilogy (more fairies), and only after she's been successful sticking to the same theme for so many books did she branch out into the Curse Workers (magical mobsters and con artists). Still YA and still magic though. She used some solid branding to get where she is, a place where she's got the name and reputation that she can experiment some more, and even now she, as that brand name at least, is still staying in the same genre.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Selina Fenech said:


> Thank you. Now I'll do my best not to freak out that Elle Casey might read my books.
> 
> My husband has a very business oriented mind, but he also isn't particularly informed regarding the writing industry itself, so he doesn't see the sort of things that authors with experience see. But I do see merit in his opinion. It comes down to branding again in a way, much like the original post. When an author creates a series, that's sort of the strongest brand of all. Their readers know they are getting that author's writing, the characters they love, the world they love. Seeing full sets of well branded series covers is also very appealing. Not only does it say to a reader "this author gets stuff done", I think it also has the extra hidden message saying "these books must be popular if there are so many", and people love to be into what's popular. But does an author necessarily have to write in series as long as they keep their brand strong, and books in very similar genre, targeting the same readers? Just look at J.K Rowling (who I can't believe no one has mentioned in this thread yet!). After her Harry Potter books were done, imagine, if instead of "A Casual Vacancy" she went on to write another YA fantasy series with a similar feel to HP. It wouldn't even need to include any of the same characters, or even be in the same universe, for readers to jump right on board (I think, anyway).
> I'm sure lots of her readers buy and read her other stuff anyway just because she is such a big name, but I hope my point is clear. The topic also brings to mind Holly Black's career (I'm not an expert, just casual observations!). Starting strong with the Spiderwick Chronicles (fairies), she went onto write the Ironside trilogy (more fairies), and only after she's been successful sticking to the same theme for so many books did she branch out into the Curse Workers (magical mobsters and con artists). Still YA and still magic though. She used some solid branding to get where she is, a place where she's got the name and reputation that she can experiment some more, and even now she, as that brand name at least, is still staying in the same genre.


I think many general business and economic concepts cross over to the book world, but one must always keep in mind the habits and emotions of the consumer. In this case (publishing/writing), it's a niche group, "big readers". I don't pay much attention to the habits of the occasional reader. I'm looking at the ones who view it as a serious hobby. They read several books a month.

It's important to fully appreciate this fact: Readers of one genre don't necessarily have the same habits as readers in another genre. Here's an example:

I am a big fantasy reader. I have lost count of how many fantasy novels I've read. I'll read anything with fantastical elements, including vampires, gnomes, elves, sprites, werewolves, witches. Whatever. High fantasy, Urban Fantasy, Paranormal Romance, ... basically any of the sub-genres. To me, that's not crossing over. They may be different creatures, but they're all supernatural, and I don't care what the story is, so long as there's something magical going on.

However, when I read romances, I stay in one sub-genre. I don't jump from historical to new adult to contemporary adult to cowboy to ... whatever. You get my point. Instead, I'll go through phases, where I'll read historical Scottish romances for two years and no other romances or just one or two other romances in other sub-genres. But my focus will be one of the sub-genres. Then I'll switch when I get bored with that sub-genre and move to another, and then stay almost exclusively there for a long time. I'll buy a butt-ton of books in that one niche. I'll seek out other books just like the ones I liked in that sub-genre, and I'll read a lot of these books in a short period of time. [Actually I'm speaking of the old me. The writer-me doesn't have the time to do this anymore.]

So my point is, readers of fantasy don't act like readers of romance, even when they're the same person. I don't just see this in myself, I see this in my own readers. I have a few thousand regular ones that I often cull information from (either fantasy readers or romance readers - both seem to read action adventure as a cross-over prospect). I also watch the busy blogs pretty closely and see what the readers are saying in comments (marketing gold, that is). So if you use that fact as a basis for making business decisions about branding, branching out into other genres, etc. you might find - like I did - that branching out from fantasy to paranormal or even dystopian isn't much of a stretch for readers, but going from high fantasy to new adult romance really, really is. You cannot expect much crossover without a lot of fans talking to each other and convincing their reader friends to give the other stuff a try.

That's how it worked for me, anyway. And I'm one of the few authors I know of who truly has written in many genres, so I've definitely walked the talk. Right now I'm in YA Action/Adventure, YA Urban Fantasy, YA Sci-Fi Post-Apocalyptic, YA Paranormal romance, Adult Chick Lit, New Adult Romance, and Contemporary Adult Romance.

Here's a comment I see fairly regularly on my Facebook or elsewhere:

"Let me know when you're going to write another fantasy book. I've read everything you have except the romance stuff. I'm not really into that kind of book."

or

"I love your romance novels! I just bought Wrecked [action/adventure] because I love your writing style and I can't wait for your next book. I don't read fantasy, though, so I skipped those."

So generally speaking (no rule holds true for everyone), supernatural fans are not big romance fans and vice versa. As a side note, I think this is why the Twilight series was so huge. It had both elements done so well that it attracted people who generally weren't "into" that kind of thing. *shrug* food for thought, if nothing else!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> That was the second part of my question though: how many of your readers check the back matter and website? It just feels like a lot of casual fans are going to miss it.
> 
> Even knowing what authors use back matter for, I very rarely bother with it and I can count on one hand how many author websites I've visited because I like their books.


It's hard to say for sure. I regularly (almost daily) get emails from readers sent via the contact form on my HF website, so I do have readers going there, though it's hard to say what percentage of book-buyers visit my site. And the back matter in my books looks like this:

Last page of story
Next page says: THE END of TITLE YOU JUST READ. Other books by this author: [all other books under that pen name] Writing as [Other pen name]: [the rest of the books]

So it's literally the page after the final page of the story.

After that, I've got the historical notes and whatnot.

When I publish Tidewater (second in the queue) it's possible that I may see an increase in traffic to my web site and actually be able to clearly estimate how many readers go to my site. For that book, I am going to include a link at the beginning of the story to a page on my site that will have audio pronunciations of Algonquian words. The book is going to be full of long, difficult-to-pronounce names that I really can't change in good conscience, so my alternative is to set up a special page to help readers out. It will be unlikely that anybody will stumble across that page without having bought Tidewater first, so if sales in my literary pen name increase, I'll be able to reasonably assume that more readers are finding those books via my HF site, and deciding to cross over. I won't be able to try this until about April, though, so I've got a while to speculate.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Laura Rae Amos said:


> But with appropriate cover design and clear blurbs, I think I can trust my readers to pick out which ones have aliens and which ones don't, and if that matters to them or not.


Word up. I think readers are pretty smart. 

I am actually planning on rolling both my pen names into one by the end of 2014, simply because I can't stand social media already *and* I know I need to step up my social media efforts next year. Ugh. Contemplating doing all that work I hate times two is just torture. So I'm going to do it times one instead.

I haven't yet figured out exactly how to differentiate clearly between the commercial fiction and the literary fiction, but obviously it's got to be something about the covers that'll do the trick.

If they don't want to follow me to other kinds of fiction, I'll just _force _ them!  



Selina Fenech said:


> And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision.


It's probably not, though.  Think long-term about it. It's not selling well right now, but next year, or five years from now, that series may wind up outselling everything else you'll write. It's far better to have a complete series all ready to go, so that when you have another book that breaks out, readers can easily find plenty more books from you, all ready to go. And a complete series? Even better than just several more stand-alones. And way better than a bunch of Book Ones for series which, for all any reader knows, you may never finish.



ellecasey said:


> Here's the cold hard deal, applicable to everyone writing: regardless of whether it's a single book or a series of books, it needs to be a GOOD book. The storytelling needs to be engaging, the plot interesting, the characters believable. If you have all of this done and done well, you'll find readers. But you'll probably find MORE readers if it's a series. My data bears that out and I'm reading and hearing other things from other high-volume selling authors that lend support to that statement.


Yup. This times a million.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm glad to see others saying they are going with one name. I just can't find the time to market 2 different names with social media. My stomach heaves just thinking about trying it!


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series. And really, some of the best series start with books that you would have thought couldn't be sequelled (Wool, anybody?).


This isn't a bad way to approach things. Really, it's the same advice you get when trying to sell to a publisher - write stand-alones with series potential.

However, for anyone doing this or thinking about it, two pieces of advice:

1) Make everything in Book 1 wrap up if you don't know whether you'll write any more of them! I mentioned in another thread that I was burned a little while back by a book that definitely did _not _resolve everything and whose author follows this strategy. Said author is still among my favorite indies, but I've learned my lesson - I won't start a series by her again until there are enough books out that it's clear she's going to finish it.

2) You may not want to let your readers know why you're not writing more books in the series. Sound business decision or not, no reader likes to hear, "Sorry, but you're just not a good enough fan for me to keep writing the stuff you like." (No, that's not what it actually means, but as a reader that's kind of how it feels.)

If I were operating like a big publisher and looking solely at the bottom line, I certainly wouldn't be writing book three of my series. But I'm not writing these in the hopes of getting a big hit; I'm writing these because I love them. And that's one of the great things about being indie, and one of the main reasons I chose to go indie in the first place - because indie publishing gives authors the power to make that decision. If I were at the mercy of a big publisher, I would have no recourse if they decided not to buy any more books in this series because the first two had mediocre sales. But as an indie, I can say, "Sales or no sales, I'm writing the stories I want to tell."


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

On the number of books in a series thing, I've never really had a successful book 1. I've seen the best results on book 3-4 of a series. Probably not as good as someone who had a successful book 1, though. Heh. But, I mean, you can brute force a series through sheer determination, sometimes. And all of my series have done best (at least temporarily) after I've finished writing them.

I'm stubborn, though, and I continue writing what I love even when what I love is not the smartest business decision.


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

Zoe Cannon said:


> However, for anyone doing this or thinking about it, two pieces of advice:
> 
> 1) Make everything in Book 1 wrap up if you don't know whether you'll write any more of them!


Oh god yes. I certainly wasn't saying anyone should write a whole bunch of first books in a series that end of cliffhangers that would never be resolved.  I was more suggesting a well branded, similar genre set of stand alone novels, and then if one breaks out, work hard to find a way to turn it into a series. And it was mostly just speculation anyway.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

I see my 16 y-o niece as a gauge to what her age group is reading. She and her friends are voracious readers. She started young on the Harry Potters, went on to Twilight in a big way, but has just recently discovered contemporaries. Granted, these books are mostly in the YA category, but she and her friends are growing up and want to read more "real world" books. Contemporaries with no paranormal elements. While she still reads paranormals, it's nowhere near as many. I think this is an interesting trend (and sucks for those of us who write historicals).

As to the 1st book in a series thing - my trilogy didn't take off until I had 2 books out. That's when I set book 1 free, put it up on Wattpad etc. Readers downloaded book 1, went on to buy book 2 because it was already there, then signed up for my mailing list so they could be told of book 3's release. Definitely don't gauge a trilogy's success on book 1 alone. Just my take.


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

ellecasey said:


> So generally speaking (no rule holds true for everyone), supernatural fans are not big romance fans and vice versa. As a side note, I think this is why the Twilight series was so huge. It had both elements done so well that it attracted people who generally weren't "into" that kind of thing. *shrug* food for thought, if nothing else!


Actually, I think your "side note" is the probably the most important point you raised.

It's usually the books that don't fit the mold that break out big time. By focusing too much on staying within genre expectations, or on what's hot and what's not, we can easily talk ourselves out of taking the kind of risks that will really reap the biggest rewards. The books that really endure. So while I appreciate all of the marketing/branding talk -- and believe me, I can carry on about Amazon algorithms with the best of them -- I really do believe it's better to keep the marketing concerns out of the writing as much as possible.

Tim Powers* has great advice on this. He says to "Write for the shelf," meaning that at the end of the day you have to be able to look over at your shelf of books and be really proud of the work you did. I always try to keep the motto in mind. And what's hot today won't be in ten years. Gothic books were all the rage in the seventies, but now the genre has disappeared. And while I love a good series, I'd hate to think that a writer would shy away from writing a standalone book because they got it into their head that it won't sell. Try running down this list and see how many of the books are part of a series. Or run down your own mental list. I know of my favorite books, probably fewer than 10% were part of a series.

I know there's no easy answers, especially if you're dependent on the writing income for your daily bread, but I'd just be very careful of letting marketing concerns dictate much of what you write. I've seen a lot of writers grind themselves down to nothing by doing that.

*Powers who, incidentally, wrote a little book called On Stranger Tides, which though it received critical praise in 1987 when it was published, really didn't sell all that well. And yet, twenty years later, it gets turned into a movie and gets a whole other life . . . All because a writer ignored the people who said that pirate books don't sell and just wrote the book he was passionate about.


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## Not Here Anymore (May 16, 2012)

Really interesting thread. 

I've been writing cozy mysteries since 2006 with a trad publisher. I went indie with a light romantic suspense series in 2012. Readers didn't automatically follow me from mystery to suspense, which surprised me a bit because you wouldn't think the leap would be that far. My suspense is pretty tame as far as the romance component. 

Some readers did follow me, but I certainly didn't have a break-out title with the first in the series. Now that I've got the third one out, it's doing really well (at least for me it is--to someone else it might be small potatoes.) Going perma-free with Book #1 has helped, too. 

So I'd say, if you really love a series, put at least three out before dumping it, if you can. I know that doesn't always make sense financially, though. But then again, writing isn't the business to be in if you're in it for the money.  

I kept the same name for my indie series mostly because just the thought additional website/social media stuff for a pen name made me feel slightly ill. I went with the "readers are smart enough to tell the difference" theory and made sure my romantic suspense covers are branded and different from the cozy covers even though they are both illustration covers. 

My tag line: Mystery and intrigue with humor on the side


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> It's probably not comparable because Spec-fic si the real genre and Fantasy/Sci-fi are the subgenres, but as a reader, I'm much more willing to follow and author between them if they're not necessarily abandoning the genre that made me like them.
> 
> There's a little bit of a betrayal there when you see that post on their site telling you that, yeah it was nice and all that I like these kinds of stories, but the author isn't going to do those anymore and is going to go flitting off to something else.
> 
> ...


I thought that too. Fantasy and SF have always been grouped together, and I know a ton of people who read both. But getting the crossover is harder than you'd think.

I have mostly SF, but I wrote one fantasy book, and it's done very poorly (like 1-2% of my SF titles). The only people who cross over are the serious hardcore fans who reflexively buy anything with your name on it. Sadly, they are in limited supply.

My first thought was the book is bad...I screwed it up. But over the course of a year I've managed to get a decent number of reviews, and they are good...on par with my other stuff, at least. The book has ten reviews and a 4.7 average on Goodreads, of all places. But still poor sales.

It's the lack of crossover interest. My also boughts for the fantasy book are all my SF books, showing me I have not managed to market to an organic fantasy market...only my most loyal SF fans.

You can never tell why a book does poorly and another does well...not for certain, at least. But I have certainly gotten the impression that getting fans to cross genres, even into close, related ones, is not an easy task.

I'm writing another fantasy novel now. I released the first one very early in my self-publishing, and I'm wondering if what boost I can get from my mailing list and current fans might be enough to give it some exposure to the fantasy crowd. More of an experiment than anything. I'm not really expecting great results.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Zoe Cannon said:


> This isn't a bad way to approach things. Really, it's the same advice you get when trying to sell to a publisher - write stand-alones with series potential.
> 
> However, for anyone doing this or thinking about it, two pieces of advice:
> 
> ...


This is great advice. Allows you to test the waters without committing yourself to writing a trilogy (or more).

I think it's possible to get a pretty good read on how a series is likely to perform with just a single book out. When I was just getting started at indie publishing for real, I had three books, all separate subgenres. I threw the same promotions at all of them (a bunch of Select giveaways, initially; later, $0.99 ads and such). Every time, book X did quite well, book Y did okay, and book Z performed terribly. It was pretty dang obvious which one of them I ought to focus on.

Initially, I was hesitant to turn the most successful book into a series because it _was_ written as a standalone, but I loved that world enough to go back to it and have never regretted that decision.

A year and a half later, I'm currently finishing up the okay-selling series anyway, but its promos have still never come anywhere close to the results on the other one.

As to the larger question--I've managed some crossover between various SF/F subgenres, but even with everything under the spec fic umbrella, it's a challenge to get people to check out a different book/series than the one that brought them to you.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Caddy said:


> I'm glad to see others saying they are going with one name. I just can't find the time to market 2 different names with social media. My stomach heaves just thinking about trying it!


Well said. I'm also glad to hear this before I make any mistake going hog wild with pen names. I can barely keep up with my own name LOL. Keeping it simple is what I am trying to do. I think that if Elle Casey and Hugh Howey can write across genres with one pen name, it can be done and should be done.



Zoe Cannon said:


> If I were operating like a big publisher and looking solely at the bottom line, I certainly wouldn't be writing book three of my series. But I'm not writing these in the hopes of getting a big hit; I'm writing these because I love them. And that's one of the great things about being indie, and one of the main reasons I chose to go indie in the first place - because indie publishing gives authors the power to make that decision. If I were at the mercy of a big publisher, I would have no recourse if they decided not to buy any more books in this series because the first two had mediocre sales. But as an indie, I can say, "Sales or no sales, I'm writing the stories I want to tell."


Well said. I am writing because I love to write as well. If only I wouldn't take so long to write what I love. LOL. This is why I blogged today about the fact that we indie writers do not need awards and accolades to validate our writing. If our readers like them, they'll buy more books. If nobody buys or reads my books, I'll still write. I don't need legacy publishers to tell me what to write, when to write, how to write, to whom I'm writing for. I'm a free bird!


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## jvin248 (Jan 31, 2012)

Selina Fenech said:


> This is something my husband keeps telling me- that people aren't going to buy any of a series until they buy Book One, so you shouldn't go investing time in any series unless you have a "book one" that breaks out. I'm labouring through to the end of my current trilogy, which as much as I really love, my own muse has become pouty over because it's not doing well, so it becomes hard to work on. And then I think about how much time I've spent on this trilogy (years, YEARS) and it hurts that I know it's such a bad business decision. Better to be writing lots of Book Ones until you find something that starts to sell, and then turn it into a series....


I sat in these same feelings in a series with two then three books out, I had myself and two real fans that liked that series so I basically kept plucking away at the stories for "the three of us" in between other projects that might produce better. Then the fourth book came out and got picked up by more readers - enough to be my better sellers through this last summer (everything is down now since the Countdown Algorithm hit). My suspicion is Amazon has a series trigger after four or so titles (I added a short story to the series last spring). Some genres are stocked with readers that won't start until several books are already written, worried about waiting on a cliffhanger. So don't abandon, just write the series lines based on sales rates.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Zoe Cannon said:


> 2) You may not want to let your readers know why you're not writing more books in the series. Sound business decision or not, no reader likes to hear, "Sorry, but you're just not a good enough fan for me to keep writing the stuff you like." (No, that's not what it actually means, but as a reader that's kind of how it feels.)


I've put notes at the end of books before saying things like, "I really want this to be a series, but if it doesn't sell very well, I won't write any more, so please help me spread the word if you want more books." But basically, I am just a big liar, because I end up writing the sequels anyway, whether or not the first book does well. In fact, I think that books not selling well sometimes makes me want to write them more, which really makes me worry about my mental state. I think I have some kind of problem with being rebellious when it makes no sense.

I do admit to delegating non-well-performing series to book-a-year status, though. I've got like four unfinished series at this point (but I'm wrapping up one, thank GOD) and two of them really don't sell very well, so I can only handle having so many guaranteed crap months a year.

In end, I want to make sound business decisions, but I just... don't. 

Anyhow, I hope those notes don't make people feel bad.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> Anyhow, I hope those notes don't make people feel bad.


I don't think they would. I was thinking more along the lines of an author saying (someplace where they interact with readers, like on their Facebook page - someplace like Kboards is entirely different), "I'm not writing any more of these books because nobody reads them," leaving the fans who loved those books thinking, _What am I, chopped liver?_ I think what you're talking about would be more likely to make the reader feel motivated to help the series succeed (though probably also worried that there won't be more books). But then, I'm just one reader - different readers have different brains, etc.


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## Writerly Writer (Jul 19, 2012)

Has anyone had any experience with trying to sell Urban Fantasy under a typically Medieval Fantasy author name?


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## Writerly Writer (Jul 19, 2012)

^^^ *bump* anyone?


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

KJCOLT said:


> Has anyone had any experience with trying to sell Urban Fantasy under a typically Medieval Fantasy author name?


No, but as a reader I read both.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

KJCOLT said:


> Has anyone had any experience with trying to sell Urban Fantasy under a typically Medieval Fantasy author name?


Lindsay Buroker did it (although her fantasies aren't really medieval), but I don't know how many of her readers crossed over.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I think this keeping one name thing can work in many ways. Lets say I have never read a fantasy novel. I mean not urban fantasy, but fantasy. So I have read urban fantasy by some author and really liked it. Maybe they also write romance and I liked it. So I look at their back list catalog and see they also have written some fantasy. If I want to dip my toes into a genre I never have read, or rarely read than I would pick the author I already know and like their writing for that "experiment".  

So even if there is not a lot of carryover, some might try another genre or subgenre with you just because.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

KJCOLT said:


> Has anyone had any experience with trying to sell Urban Fantasy under a typically Medieval Fantasy author name?


I've read some trad publish authors that I've followed over after they did that. I happen to like both genres... but I'm less apt to try a new Urban Fantasy author... so the fact that I liked their medieval fantasy was a selling point.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

With genres as close enough together as urban fantasy and medieval fantasy, though, I don't think there's any advantage to using a pen name, regardless of how much or little crossover you might get. I'm not sure whether you're asking if it would be worth writing an urban fantasy when you normally write medieval fantasy, or whether you're asking whether the two should be kept under separate names, but if it's the latter, I don't see any reason to keep them under separate names. I read a lot more urban fantasy than medieval fantasy, but I wouldn't be confused or put off if I saw that an urban-fantasy author I liked had also put out a medieval fantasy, and I might even pick it up to see if I liked it. I'd be a lot less likely to find it, or remember it later if I decided not to buy it just yet, if it were under a different name.


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