# Are e-book prices ever going down?



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

I have Amazon prime, so when a book is $9.99 for the Kindle edition but only $8.63 for the hardcopy, it's hard for me to justify buying the ebook.  I don't really have the money to buy many books at all, so I have to be discerning in the first place.  

I know that publishers set the price, but do you see the prices falling?  In other words, will publishers think that they can gouge prices as ebook readers become more popular, or will they lower prices to snag large-scale impulse buys?


----------



## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

southerntype said:


> I have Amazon prime, so when a book is $9.99 for the Kindle edition but only $8.63 for the hardcopy, it's hard for me to justify buying the ebook.


I've mostly found that the Kindle editions are cheaper than the physical versions. The exact amount is varies from $1 to more. Sometimes it is more expensive though or the Kindle edition just doesn't exist.



southerntype said:


> I know that publishers set the price, but do you see the prices falling? In other words, will publishers think that they can gouge prices as ebook readers become more popular, or will they lower prices to snag large-scale impulse buys?


I'd expect the prices to drop as the barriers to self publishing are considerably lower now.


----------



## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

The Agency model pricing was supposed to be a one year "trial" thing, so hopefully when that expires we will see some drastic changes to the prices. It still all new and up in the air, so who really knows what will happen! Yesterday I was looking at a book that is $8.99 for the Kindle and $8.88 in hardback. I kow that's because Amazon get to set the hardback price, but it still doesn't make any sense to me.


----------



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

Yeah.  A hardback for $8.99?  I mean that's a good deal.  Especially when I can pass it along to someone else when I'm finished, or use it to kill bugs if I had to (ha), buying the Kindle edition is a tough call.

As far as those $1 books, they're fine, but most of that is self-published genre fiction, and while I've sampled it, I'm not in love with it.


----------



## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

The problem is that big publishers are still very dependent on the bookstores and book distributors for most of their income.  Cheap ebooks are not good for those bookstores and distributors - so of course publishers are going to do all they can to keep those businesses (which are the main customers) happy.

This is going to take a while to sort out.  It isn't in the interests writers or publishers or agents to keep a damper on ebooks - so the pressure will build. But until ebooks are a big enough revenue stream to allow publishers to shrug off the pressures from the booksellers and distributors, they're not going to be able to make the jump whole-heartedly.

The prices have already come down in some areas - indie authors, established authors who have the rights to their backlist, and small publishers.  This will grow.  We just don't know when the tipping point will be. (I expect that when it does happen, it will happen fast.)

Camille


----------



## Rothrock42 (Sep 2, 2010)

Last night I made another Wish List, "Too expensive" of books that the Kindle edition is more than the physical edition. Four out of five on the list (so far) are from Penguin. I was thinking of writing a letter and sending a copy to Jeff Bezos too.

I'm fine with paying $9.99 for a book that I want, but if a physical copy is $7.50 or something it just doesn't make sense.

I've only had my DX for a couple months, so I haven't been following them long enough to see how things change over time.


----------



## Mac (Aug 2, 2009)

I can see ebooks going down to 2 or 3 dollars when the publishing industry figures out that people will buy more books at a lower rate. JA Konrath has been saying that I am starting to believe. However, I wonder if the publishing industry will see what is happening. During this economy and after are people willing to put down $25 for a hard cover?


----------



## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

It's going to take a while yet, probably anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, but the prices will eventually come down. It's just a slow process. The major print publishers are still trying to figure out a business model for e-books, a model that will allow them to remain profitable. They're testing things here and there, but eventually one of the companies will find something that works just right and then the rest will follow.

However, I don't think the major publishers will lower their prices to $2 and $3. But I could be wrong.

Keep in mind, the digital publishing market is still new and changing, sometimes daily. Amazon could change their policies at some point, which would affect things. The major brick and mortar book stores could go out of business, which would affect things. A lot could happen, and probably will happen over the next few years.


----------



## Xopher (May 14, 2009)

It will be interesting to see what happens once the current Agency Model format reaches the end of their one-year contract. If Apple drops the current model, Amazon might play on their higher volume to bring back lower prices. It will be interesting to see what will happen in about 6-8 months...


----------



## terryr (Apr 24, 2010)

Go down, like how much? 9.99 is reasonable for a bestselling eBook from a big name publisher, in my opinion.

I paid 14.99 for one in 2003. Most of them went between 14.99 and 21.99 even then. Indies averaged 3.99 - 9.99.

And maybe they don't have to pay for paper and ink, but they still have to pay a lot of people.

ETA: I'm not FOR higher prices, but compared to what they were almost ten years ago, to me, many of them _have _come down.


----------



## KindleMom (Dec 11, 2008)

If a Kindle book costs more than the same book at Costco, I get it from the library and never purchase the book.  

Ebooks should be less than a physical book, IMO.  A lot less, but I won't squibble with that - yet.  For now, I'm sticking with only purchasing Kindle books that cost less than what I can purchase them for new.  I know only me has no impact on this situation, but it makes me feel better.  

When "The Help" is less than the paperback, I'm totally buying it!  I loved that book and waited weeks to get it from the library but will not buy it until the Kindle price goes waaaaay down.  Same with "Mockingjay."  It is much less at Costco than on the Kindle so I got it from the library.


----------



## SpearsII (Jan 16, 2010)

I find myself in the same boat. The budget is very tight right now; even a $6.95 kindle book is a lot to spend. The Kindle has shown its greatest value when I find older books that I enjoy reading. I love that I have a free copy of _The Autobiography Benjamin Franklin_. I am not counting the price of the kindle of course. The book is as good as any written today and easy on the budget. I told my wife most of the books I have so far are free ones. She said. "good keep it that way." I think the price will move in favor of the reader over time, but until then most of my reading will be old books I think.


----------



## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

I was searching through the Kindle Stroe today for Ayn Rand and saw that the Foutainhead and Atlas Shrugged each cost $18!  For a flippin' e-book!  After the shock subsided, I researched the issue via Google and discovered that at one point, they were charging $25 for them!  Can you imagine paying $25 for an e-book!  It's not as if these are rare, out of print novels.  You can get a hardcopy for $10.

Oh, and Rothrock, guess who's the publisher of said novels...


----------



## pdallen (Aug 3, 2010)

I wouldn't pay $9.99 for the kindle version of anything. I'm quite content to lurk in the backwaters of free classics and indie books priced $2.99 and under.

Sorry, I won't pay anything over $7.00 for an ebook. And anything over $5 would be pushing it.


----------



## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Ya know, there's a certain irony in complaining about the prices of Ayn Rand e-books.  

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be mean-spirited. It just struck me as funny.


----------



## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

We really have to stop applying DTB terms to e-books. There will NEVER be a "rare" or "out of print" e-book unless the supply is artificially constrained. After reading some global economy books I'm beginning to believe the publisher when they say the cost of a hardback is not much different than the cost of a paperback and both are minor costs compared to the preparation, editing, and typesetting of a book in the first place. 

So when we see these hella cheap hardbacks, I think those are surplus books being dumped at a loss because the sales of the book were insufficient to maintain a profitable selling point. But this will NEVER happen with an e-book. Or rather, it will happen, but at a much slower, graduated pace, more mimicking the sales of digital video games that release at a premium price point to take advantage of initial demand, then slide down in price to engage folks with increasing levels of resistance, eventually selling for virtually nothing as the demand is also essentially nil. Obviously video games have a technology obsolescence factor that books, for the most part, do not, so I don't think e-books of current authors will ever go for a penny or anything. Or the DTB is being used as a loss leader, which amazon essentially was doing with e-books to drive kindle sales, but was checked by the agency model. Of course now I think they are using the kindle as a loss leader since they should be making profit on each e-book.

Another consideration is that voracious readers, like most on this site, will ALWAYS be reading a book. So lowering prices won't really make us buy more or read faster, we are already at reading capacity, all pricing can do is drive our reading selection towards a particular author or away from one. The million dollar question is whether or not casual readers would increase their reading volume if the price point was lower, and quite frankly I don't think it will until e-readers become virtually free.

I don't think there will be a major pricing overhaul for e-books until the enormous DTB infrastructure collapses. So long as publishers and retailers work to maintain the current DTB pricing scheme, e-books will always be slaved to that model, with "hardback" and "paperback" pricing, discrete unit pricing instead of a subscription service or volume pricing, and the e-book will continue to be second fiddle to hardback sales. Not sure if DTB store will go the way of record stores anytime soon, though eventually, assuming we continue on our upward technology arc, I do think DTBs will become a smaller and smaller section of stores. 

The problem is that I think sales of new text heavy books (fiction and non-fiction bestsellers), the perfect thing for e-book conversion, are what sustain large bookstores loaded with picture heavy books, the hardest thing to convert to a digital format. So are we going to lose those glossy coffee table books about knitting, WW2, or Thai cooking? Or will those type of books take prominence and become the savior of book stores and publishers?


----------



## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

I also think 9.99 is reasonable. I keep in mind that it is not just about the form of the book but we are also paying for *content*. Authors have a right to make money for their work. I am happy to support the writers I like.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

I generally don't mind the prices.  I mean, sure, I like the idea of $3 books, but I'll also pay $12 for a book I'm really looking forward to.  That said, it's only a handful of authors that I'll pay that for their work.

It just occurred to me - I wonder if it would be profitable for bookstores to eventually have an e-book section?  Basically, covers with blurbs and maybe a chapter or three.  If you like the book you can buy it and either download it via WiFi/3G or download it to your device there in the store.  I fully realize that it's not necessary to have a physical store to buy eBooks, but there's just something about the atmosphere of a bookstore...

ETA:  Pretty much what Octochick said.


----------



## robins777 (Aug 10, 2010)

KindleMom said:


> If a Kindle book costs more than the same book at Costco, I get it from the library and never purchase the book.
> 
> Ebooks should be less than a physical book, IMO. A lot less, but I won't squibble with that - yet. For now, I'm sticking with only purchasing Kindle books that cost less than what I can purchase them for new. I know only me has no impact on this situation, but it makes me feel better.
> 
> When "The Help" is less than the paperback, I'm totally buying it! I loved that book and waited weeks to get it from the library but will not buy it until the Kindle price goes waaaaay down. Same with "Mockingjay." It is much less at Costco than on the Kindle so I got it from the library.


I agree about the cost of books for the Kindle the are way to expensive. I have purchased two books since getting my Kindle a couple weeks ago and these both cost under £1.50 which I thought was a reasonable price to pay. Several others I want are more expensive that the DTB version so I will either wait them till they come down in price or simple buy the DTB version. When I can buy the latest released books (paperback) for £4 or less from a local supermarket and older books off the web for even less there is no way I will pay the same sort of price for an Ebook.


----------



## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

darkbow said:


> Ya know, there's a certain irony in complaining about the prices of Ayn Rand e-books.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be mean-spirited. It just struck me as funny.


Oh, I know, I totally saw the irony right off the bat.


----------



## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

9.99 is OK for me.  I'm not buying much these days.  I am disgusted with the agency model, with books that are 12.99, 14.99 or more.


----------



## D. Nathan Hilliard (Jun 5, 2010)

jason10mm said:


> I don't think there will be a major pricing overhaul for e-books until the enormous DTB infrastructure collapses. So long as publishers and retailers work to maintain the current DTB pricing scheme, e-books will always be slaved to that model, with "hardback" and "paperback" pricing, discrete unit pricing instead of a subscription service or volume pricing, and the e-book will continue to be second fiddle to hardback sales. Not sure if DTB store will go the way of record stores anytime soon, though eventually, assuming we continue on our upward technology arc, I do think DTBs will become a smaller and smaller section of stores.


I wouldn't be surprised to see major publishers keeping their prices up in an effort to use their e-book profits to defray their DTB costs. I think it's going to be a natural reaction on their part to protect that part of their business as much as they can.


----------



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

D. Nathan Hilliard said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see major publishers keeping their prices up in an effort to use their e-book profits to defray their DTB costs. I think it's going to be a natural reaction on their part to protect that part of their business as much as they can.


All it would take is one major publisher saying, we're going head first into this Kindle business, and offering all their selections for $5. Then, they put some commercials about it on TV, "On Amazon's Kindle, you can buy X, Y, Z for only $5." Then Kindle sales go up as people don't see the cost of the Kindle because all they see are savings on DTBs, the publisher makes money, and the industry tide shifts.

There has got to be some sort of study done on this, but I don't have any documentation. Most people see prices at certain thresholds, and when prices fall just under those thresholds, (ex: $6.99: "6 bucks") people are more willing to buy them impulsively.

I just hope they're paying attention to the numbers in this game. The free books and classics are going at a huge rate, while Penguin's books are barely moving.

And I understand that an author deserves his/her due reward (I dabble in writing myself), but when the author is dead, for example C.S. Lewis, when his DTBs are cheaper than the e book, I'm never buying the ebook.

Like I said, I just hope they're paying attention. Supposedly Amazon is the Big Brother of online shopping, measuring how long you look at a page, where your cursor lingers, which parts you read, what you search for after viewing certain items, etc.

I hope they see me viewing an expensive ebook and searching "when are ebook prices going down" on Amazon.


----------



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

I posted this on another thread but it's probably more in line with this one . . . just my 0.02 (sorry, I'm in Norway visiting family, and there is no dollar sign on the keyboard!)

Considering readers have to make a significant initial investment in the e-reader itself, I feel that publishers shouldn't charge as much as they do for some e-books.  It's only fair to remember that people have to shell out a couple hundred bucks (well, less now, but still) for a Kindle.  Besides, all publishers invest is the time it takes to format the e-book and money for advertising.  Compare those outlay costs to all that goes into a traditional print book (especially runs of 1000s of print books at a time for one title, half of which probably won't sell and thus create a loss for the publisher) and the difference is staggering. 

I honestly don't understand why publishers aren't rushing to do POD and e-books with more gusto and less suspicion.  Every sale would be a success for the writers and the publishers because there would be no back stock.  Not to mention being more environmentally friendly.  In other words, if a publisher does a print run of 50,000 books for a particular title and then only sells 25,000 copies, that title and author are considered failures from a financial perspective and a loss for the publisher.  Then it's harder for that author to publish again than if he or she had no publishing credits at all.  Take the same title and say the publisher does some modest promotion and sells 25,000 e-books for half of what they would have charged for print copies.  Even though they're making less because they're charging less, they still come out ahead and the title is a success because there's minimal outlay. 

In a world where it's rumored that only 10% of traditionally published books turn a profit these days, resulting in a ridiculously tight market, it's no wonder so many writers are going indie.


----------



## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

I can't find the link, but Kindle Nation daily recently did an analysis that showed prices ARE dropping a little over time. it's just hard to notice in the day to day business, but if you look at all the prices at once, you see the slow movement.

Scott


----------



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

I was just checking out another thread about dog books, so I decided to check on some of them...

Art of Racing in the Rain: $9.99 Kindle, $6.99 new paperback.
Always Faithful: Memoir... : $16.99 Kindle, $4.50 new hardback.

*sigh*


----------



## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

jason10mm said:


> We really have to stop applying DTB terms to e-books. There will NEVER be a "rare" or "out of print" e-book unless the supply is artificially constrained.


But if the hardcopy is rare or out of print, then the publisher can say, "well, people have no other way to get it so they'll pay a higher price."


----------



## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

metal134 said:


> But if the hardcopy is rare or out of print, then the publisher can say, "well, people have no other way to get it so they'll pay a higher price."


Yeah, but the e-book itself isn't rare, they could sell a million copies if the demand is there. Sure, there may be a transient price premium due to percieved value and increased demand, but once the die-hard fans get their e-copy the price will have to go down, and there is no good reason for it not to do so, other than publisher desires (to maintain an elitist aura around the book, keep it in the news, etc).

And this only counts for NEW e-books for OLD DTBs. 20 years from now I don't think that the e-book verison of, say, LOTR, will fetch any kind of premium price. Unless the rights are in dispute (in which case you probably can't buy it at all) there is really no reason why it would be difficult to find. Given the current DRM set-up, there is no legal market for "used" e-books, and I doubt there will be much interest in "collector" editions of e-books other than ones with improved typesetting and error correction, which really should be applied to previously bought e-books anyway.

Plus the ease of pirating e-books will serve to keep prices reasonable, IMHO. Though I don't think e-books are as prone to piracy like movies, games, and music are, outside of a few popular titles.


----------



## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

The best thing we can do is continue to vote with our wallets.  If you want a book and the e-book is more than the print version, don't buy it new.  Go to the library, borrow from a friend or hit a used book store.  The publishers need to know that the readers are getting tired of their tactics and won't play the game.

I don't personally set a dollar limit on e-book cost, but I have a very hard time purchasing an e-book that costs more than the lowest priced print version.  I really don't think they should be priced the same either, but depending on the author, I'm willing to make an exception.  And it's REALLY annoying to purchase the e-book and discover that it wasn't proofed at it - just scanned and gone through OCR...


----------



## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

Listen folks. There is no real reason to pay that much less for an ebook. Here are some reasons why.

1 You get your ebook the second you want it, delivered right to your ereading device. No waiting on mail, no fighting traffic.

2 You don't have to pay for gas to go get it, or the postage to have it delivered.

3 The environmental benefits are too numerous to mention, not only in the saving of trees for paper, but of shipping and distribution emissions.

4 Are you really paying that much?  A movie ticket is 8 bucks for 3 hours.  For 8 bucks you can read ebooks for 3 hours a night for a week.

5 If you are buying Indie, your helping to subvert the price gouging trad pubs and their vendors.

Just my Humble Opinion.   I understand that money is tight.  It is for me too, thats why only half of my titles are under a buck! The other half helps me pay my bills!

I only sell ebooks so the print vs ebook thing is void with my reaoning.....   lol


----------



## CNDudley (May 14, 2010)

#4 of M. R.'s is the one that makes me sad. Free writing has become an expectation.

With traditionally-published books, as someone pointed out upthread, there are many people to be paid, and publishers naturally hesitate to cannibalize hardback sales.

People like my husband can always be depended on to buoy Kindle sales, no matter the ebook-vs.-physical price. I'm forever telling him I could've gotten that book for free or cheaper than what he paid.


----------



## nmg222 (Sep 14, 2010)

It's hard to rationalize paying $9.99 for a new paperback that is $5.49 at Costco.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> Besides, all publishers invest is the time it takes to format the e-book and money for advertising.


Sorry - I have to disagree with this. This shows a huge amount of ignorance in the way businesses work. There is a whole list of expenses that ALL businesses have, and here are just a few:
1) Property - whether a lease, rent, or property tax, just the area that houses their office space costs
2) Utilities - multiply your monthly utilities by a minimum of 10. It's probably closer to 100, depending on how much office space they have
3) Salaries - Editors, artists, public relations, secretaries, janitors - none of those people work for free
4) Benefits - All of those people in #3 - double their salaries because the amount the company pays them as salary is only the visible tip of the iceberg. The company also has to pay employment taxes and benefits.

Then you start tacking on pay for the authors (advances, royalties, etc.) and advertising costs, and other things of that nature. All businesses have base expenses that have to be met before you even start delving into expenses on a "per project" basis.

EDIT: A good analogy - why is it that we don't just work for gas money? After all, that's all that it costs us to go to work, just the gas to get there and back, right? No - we also need money for food, clothing, rent, utilities, transportation, insurance, leisure items, and savings (if we're lucky). Same with businesses - we all have "costs of operating".


----------



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Sorry - I have to disagree with this. This shows a huge amount of ignorance in the way businesses work. There is a whole list of expenses that ALL businesses have, and here are just a few:
> 1) Property - whether a lease, rent, or property tax, just the area that houses their office space costs
> 2) Utilities - multiply your monthly utilities by a minimum of 10. It's probably closer to 100, depending on how much office space they have
> 3) Salaries - Editors, artists, public relations, secretaries, janitors - none of those people work for free
> ...


I understand what you're saying, but that largely sidesteps the issue. You left out all the costs of printing a traditional book, which have to be substantial, and lots of the salaries included in your estimate would be there. If they're out of the picture, the price should go down. An ebook publisher/division could be tiny, and more importantly, once they produce an ebook, that's all they need to do. There are no second runs, no tracking down books to pulp, none of that extensive loss that DTBs accumulate.

The profits on an ebook come from the sales of the ebook. Once it is produced, the company basically lets it go. They don't get books shipped back to them. They just wait for people to buy the ebook.

From what I can tell, this is an opportunity for writers to finally start making money off their work. The possible number of books sold is limitless. Each ebook is a potential bestseller.

I just have trouble paying a price that is artificially inflated for an ebook because it keeps some people in their desks at the DTB publishing house. It's not a charity, it's a business. We shouldn't be paying for services not rendered in the creation of the final product. Authors have been getting the shaft for DECADES+. Ebooks have the potential to stop some of those extra people from getting almost all of the fruits of the author's labor.

And to M.R., if convenience were paramount, no one would question the ebook cost. Content is still the most valuable/important thing to readers, and we're going to try to get the content in the cheapest way we can.

Not trying to cause a fight but I just see the issue differently. I think that the publishing industry is scared of ebooks because some traditional jobs on the printing end will be lost, and they're fighting that tooth and nail.


----------



## Lori Brighton (Jul 10, 2010)

Ebooks are rather cheap, imo, compared to printed books. 

But with that said, you'd think that yes, they would go down considering publishers would be spending less money on other things in order to get an ebook out. I see the publishing world changing dramatically in the very near future. 

On the the other hand, I think it will be interesting to see how the price is influenced when ebooks take over for print books. I don't care what people say, it will happen. Not because I want it to (I love printed books), but rationally it will. When ebooks become the norm, and you can't find as many printed books, will the prices go up or down? Might sound silly, but if ebooks are the only thing available, publishers could charge what they wanted. But then on the other hand, when something becomes common the price usually goes down. I guess we could see by comparing it to the music industry.


----------



## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have a friend who complains about the price of everything. She thinks everything she buys ought to be cheap. She also complains that she isn't paid enough, even though she makes $100K in a relatively cushy job. You just can't have it both ways. If everything was dirt cheap, nobody would be making a decent salary.

Fortunately, we all have choices. Buy the cheaper paper book from the remains pile. Go to the library and check it out for free. Or be patient and wait for the price to come down. E-book prices change constantly, and there are a lot of online services now that will track the things you want to buy and email you when the price drops.


----------



## KindleMom (Dec 11, 2008)

nmg222 said:


> It's hard to rationalize paying $9.99 for a new paperback that is $5.49 at Costco.


Which is why I don't. Books like that I refuse to buy at all and get them from the library.

I realize the one book I'm not buying makes no difference to a publisher, but I refuse to support that type of business model. They're just screwing the ebook readers because they DTB industry is failing. Many of us ebook readers are voracious readers and can buy potentially a lot of books. I find I'm using the library a lot more now than before I had my Kindle and therefore buying fewer books.

Maybe someday they'll get the message...?


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

southerntype said:


> I understand what you're saying, but that largely sidesteps the issue. You left out all the costs of printing a traditional book, which have to be substantial, and lots of the salaries included in your estimate would be there.
> 
> I just have trouble paying a price that is artificially inflated for an ebook because it keeps some people in their desks at the DTB publishing house. It's not a charity, it's a business. We shouldn't be paying for services not rendered in the creation of the final product.


No, I didn't leave out the costs of printing a traditional book - I said "Then you start tacking on pay for the authors (advances, royalties, etc.) and advertising costs, and other things of that nature. *All businesses have base expenses that have to be met before you even start delving into expenses on a "per project" basis.*"

Large businesses don't exist in a vacuum. Just because only three people plus the author, for instance, are required to publish an eBook - the artist, the editor and the person who formats the book doesn't mean that all those other people - secretaries, accountants, lawyers, right down to the janitor just magically disappear. And if you consider all those expenses - that's to break even. No business is in it to "break even" - they're in it to make a profit. And profits aren't bad - that's what allows them to expand their business and hire more people and take a risk on a new project (author), etc.

That said, if you buy from from a traditional publisher, you aren't paying three or four people for "services rendered". Same goes for any big business. When you pay a flooring store $300 for two guys to come out and install your new carpet I can assure you that those guys aren't getting $150 each. I agree that it's RIDICULOUS to see an eBook priced at $10 while the paperback copy is $6; I don't agree with the logic that eBooks should be dirt cheap just because there's no printing costs involved.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

DDP: Something actually just occurred to me - heinous but true. Let's say a publisher has 1,000 books left over of Why the Chicken Crossed the Road. For whatever reason, these last 1,000 copies are just not moving. That's when they start lowering the price. Why? Because it's costing them money the longer those books go unsold, in storage if nothing else (space costs, as do utilities). Meanwhile, if they sell the book for $5 at Costco, well, that's $5 more than they had, AND the book is no longer a negative drain on the bottom line. At the same time, eBooks don't have the same issue. It costs them nothing to keep an eBook "on the shelf" so there's not really any incentive in offering screaming deals on older titles.


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Where I think real change will come is with the smaller publishing companies and any newer publishing co-ops or whatever.  In an ebook store, smaller authors and unknowns are on a more even footing with the major authors when competing for attention.  They are also visible to a wider audience.  It stands to reason the minors will start to sell more books.

If several small companies starts making decent profits selling primarily ebooks and expand their reader base, eventually these sales will eat into the sales of major publishing houses if they keep their prices higher.  Once they see other, young tiger companies growing while they're shrinking, they will start to work on their business model.

To be fair, the majors have an advantage over newer, smaller companies in that they have extensive backlists they can bring forward as ebooks and fill the market - some are working on that already while maintaining their higher priced new releases.  That will also factor into their business model as these backlist books have relatively few associated expenses compared to releasing new books.


----------



## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Apparently there are many people that are paying over $9.99 for an ebook. I did a rough estimate of the top 50 best-selling titles on Amazon and around 20 of them were over $9.99.

For myself, I don't have an arbitrary price that I won’t go beyond. It depends on the book. I prefer them down around $7 to $8, though. 

For those that say they won’t pay more than the paperback prices, what about those paperbacks that are listed at  around $15? I've seen some of those on Amazon.

Mike


----------



## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

southerntype said:


> I have Amazon prime, so when a book is $9.99 for the Kindle edition but only $8.63 for the hardcopy, it's hard for me to justify buying the ebook. I don't really have the money to buy many books at all, so I have to be discerning in the first place.
> 
> I know that publishers set the price, but do you see the prices falling? In other words, will publishers think that they can gouge prices as ebook readers become more popular, or will they lower prices to snag large-scale impulse buys?


Listen southerntype, buy the ebook and then download three free ebooks. Thats how you justify it. Justify it by knowing that shipping emissions were avoided, and that trees didnt have to die for your enjoyment... lol You can justify anything. Justify it by not having to pay shipping for the ebook. 

***Better yet just buy an Indie book and justify it by knowing that you paid the author, not a bunch of suited land sharks who spend their time tryinging to chomp on your reading wallet.

If you are wanting to read C.S. Lewis then you should just go to the library.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

jmiked said:


> For those that say they won't pay more than the paperback prices, what about those paperbacks that are listed at around $15? I've seen some of those on Amazon.


I think they meant the same book in its paperback format. I could be wrong, but when I gripe about high prices, I'm comparing apples to apples. In my perfect world, Kindle books would be at least $1 cheaper in eBook format than the SAME book in whatever it's lowest-priced print format is. I'm disappointed when it's the same exact price, and I'm between irritated and disgusted when it's more (depending on how much more).


----------



## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Arkali said:


> I think they meant the same book in its paperback format.


I have seen some paperbacks that are around $15 with Kindle version that are around $12.

Mike


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Arkali said:


> I'm disappointed when it's the same exact price, and I'm between irritated and disgusted when it's more (depending on how much more).


For mass market paperbacks, if the amazon price is 6.99 and the ebook price is also 6.99, I'm not really worried they are the same price.


----------



## Kindle_Matt (Jun 30, 2010)

I suspect this is going to be like the CD to MP3 revolution. When CDs first came out, while they were soon cheaper to manufacture, the CD format was a "premium service" because of the quality over tapes and (debatable) records. When CDs became far cheaper to produce than other formats, CD prices remained high. When MP3s came out, the record companies couldn't stop piracy. This is not an endorsement of piracy.

Given that, I think that the industry is at risk to not make ebooks a significant advantage to buyers. Consider the costs. To produce a book takes manufacturing, significant page layout, shipping, inventory and other costs which make the "margin" on a sold book much lower than an ebook. I suspect that even the newest books could be sold to buyers at a much fairer price and the seller still being able to maintain the same gross profit. However, ebooks are now at a "premium".  

On the other hand , it is quite plausible that the cost of ebooks is currently subsidizing the costs to bring products like Kindle to market.  One thing I feel confident about - ebooks will be a benefit for consumers long-term.  I just hope for students that it will bring prices for textbooks down to sub-racketeering levels.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Geoffrey said:


> For mass market paperbacks, if the amazon price is 6.99 and the ebook price is also 6.99, I'm not really worried they are the same price.


Me, either. Like I said - I'm disappointed, because of course I'd like to save a dollar  But I'm perfectly happy to pay equal price. It's when it's $6.99 for the trade paperback and $9.99 for the kindle version, that's when I get pretty irritated.


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Arkali said:


> Me, either. Like I said - I'm disappointed, because of course I'd like to save a dollar  But I'm perfectly happy to pay equal price. It's when it's $6.99 for the trade paperback and $9.99 for the kindle version, that's when I get pretty irritated.


Yeah. I've with you there. I have a list of books that are upside down that may be bought some day when they're corrected ...


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Geoffrey said:


> Yeah. I've with you there. I have a list of books that are upside down that may be bought some day when they're corrected ...


Well, I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but one book I wanted was $14.99 for the Kindle version, $7.99 for the trade PB. I used the "Report lower price" function on the product page and within three days the price was dropped to match the TPB price. Like I said, perhaps coincidence. Perhaps Amazon was all "Ahem!" So you might try that.


----------



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

M.R. Mathias said:


> Listen southerntype...You can justify anything.


 Words to live by.


----------



## Gordon Ryan (Aug 20, 2010)

southerntype said:


> As far as those $1 books, they're fine, but most of that is self-published genre fiction, and while I've sampled it, I'm not in love with it.


Southerntype, what an outstanding avatar. A true Normal Rockwellian context. Well done. Is that a cell phone or a hair brush in your hand

Gordon Ryan


----------



## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

I think e-book prices will inevitably fall over time (with the large caveat that all prices rise over time due to inflation!). There's just too much cost savings (eliminating printing, shipping, returns, and the risk of too-small or too-large print runs) and too low of a barrier to entry -- more and more authors (indie and big-name alike) will start releasing books on their own. And when Stephen King figures out that 70% of $5.99 earns him more than 25% of $14.99 … AND he'll sell 5x as many copies on top of that …………

(I mean, some writers may not be great at math, but enough of them will figure THAT out!)


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Arkali said:


> Well, I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but one book I wanted was $14.99 for the Kindle version, $7.99 for the trade PB. I used the "Report lower price" function on the product page and within three days the price was dropped to match the TPB price. Like I said, perhaps coincidence. Perhaps Amazon was all "Ahem!" So you might try that.


There's a 'Report lower price' function?


----------



## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Geoffrey, it's a link at the bottom of the Product Details for Amazon's book listings.


----------



## Guest (Sep 17, 2010)

southerntype said:


> Words to live by.


LMAO...... Yes they are!


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

darkbow said:


> Geoffrey, it's a link at the bottom of the Product Details for Amazon's book listings.


ooooooooh


----------



## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

I lent my paperback copy of _The Hunger Games_ to a friend. She loved it, and couldn't wait to read the sequel. Literally. So she downloaded it free from the internet - and the third in the series, too. I suggested this wasn't fair on the author; I wouldn't like it if it happened to me. She said, with a certain deadly accuracy, that I wasn't well-known enough for my books to get ripped off.

While it's possible to download free copies of best sellers, I don't see how publishers are going to be able to maintain high prices. If the price is one that the public perceives as fair, they are much more likely to pay it. So I think prices will tumble.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

darkbow said:


> Geoffrey, it's a link at the bottom of the Product Details for Amazon's book listings.


Yepper:









I think that's the first time I've ever used the feature. Once you click on it, it asks if it was in a store or a web site, and if you choose web site it asks for a URL, price, and date. So I went to the trade paperback page on Amazon, grabbed that link and posted it in their form. Like I said, I was pretty hot. Mass Market Paperback is $7.99 and you want to charge me $15? WTF?  So a couple of days later I went to use that as an example in a discussion very similar to this one and when I went to double-check the price I saw they'd dropped it down to match the paperback price.

Could be coincidence, but maybe not. You might try it on a couple of them.


----------



## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

According to this article http://www.futurebook.net/content/era-cheap-e-books-coming-end ebook prices, after a dip, will rise. They are only 'cheap' now because of Amazon's fiendish plan to corner the market.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Lexi Revellian said:



> According to this article http://www.futurebook.net/content/era-cheap-e-books-coming-end ebook prices, after a dip, will rise. They are only 'cheap' now because of Amazon's fiendish plan to corner the market.


I don't think that's really relevant for people in the US. If I understood correctly, the UK isn't on the agency model yet and so Amazon is still low-balling those eBook prices. For me, the agency model has been in place since before I got my Kindle, so I won't notice a change in pricing at all. Thanks for the link


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Arkali said:


> Well, I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but one book I wanted was $14.99 for the Kindle version, $7.99 for the trade PB. I used the "Report lower price" function on the product page and within three days the price was dropped to match the TPB price. Like I said, perhaps coincidence. Perhaps Amazon was all "Ahem!" So you might try that.


From reports I've seen here on KB, this has worked consistently for folks. At least the ones for whom it's worked for have reported in. So I think it's worth doing.

Betsy


----------



## southerntype (Aug 17, 2010)

Gordon Ryan said:


> Southerntype, what an outstanding avatar. A true Normal Rockwellian context. Well done. Is that a cell phone or a hair brush in your hand
> 
> Gordon Ryan


Thanks!

It's a hairbrush. That little boy is about to get a spanking, but even discipline can't stand in the way of a good book!


----------



## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

First, thanks to all for the thoughtful, persuasive posts.

Second, I am all for authors, the creators themselves, making all the money they can make. I want them to keep writing worlds that I can escape into and learn from. I don't begrudge them a dime. I hope all my favorite authors are very, very rich. 

Third, though, is what am I buying when I buy an e-book? That's where I'm struggling. I'm not willing to pay more for something I only own the rights to and that's where it stands right now. Until I can gift or give or loan an e-book freely, it isn't worth the price of a hard back, to me. JMO.


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

unknown2cherubim said:


> Third, though, is what am I buying when I buy an e-book? That's where I'm struggling. I'm not willing to pay more for something I only own the rights to and that's where it stands right now. Until I can gift or give or loan an e-book freely, it isn't worth the price of a hard back, to me. JMO.


Good point and I have issues with Digital Rights Management as well. But, I recently did a survey through my ebooks and all of my books bought at sites other than Amazon do not have DRM and about 15% of my Amazon books do not have DRM as well. Overall, about 1/3 of my books are mine free and clear and not associated to a specific device.

Now, long term I expect ebooks to go the direction of mp3's where first there will be lots of DRM then a major retailer will stop using it and eventually everyone will ...


----------



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Arkali said:


> Sorry - I have to disagree with this. This shows a huge amount of ignorance in the way businesses work. There is a whole list of expenses that ALL businesses have, and here are just a few:


Good point . . . and I'm coming from the perspective of someone who helped my parents with their small business, so I should have known better than to write the ridiculous statement you quoted in your earlier post. I guess I just wanted to stress the point that what publishers put into e-books cost-wise should be less than print books (even after you count the salaries, property costs, etc. involved in any business venture), so why are the e-book versions more expensive or the same as print books in some cases? I see you provided an explanation in another post, so I'm off to read that . . .

Anyway, going back to my parents, who were both successful artists (mom a painter and potter and dad a wood-sculptor), most kinds of artists are indie. Yes, publishers and agents are a great advantage to authors in some ways--much wider distribution, advertising, etc. However, as Arkali pointed out, publishers are in business to make money so that they can cover their many expenses and still have something to put in the bank. The bottom line can be a wretched gate-keeper, particularly as it shrinks. And with such poor returns on print books, what business wants to take a risk on an unknown newcomer, no matter how talented, when it has several established big names already on the roster? So originality in voice and story is already at a disadvantage with traditional publishers, unless the author knows someone or already has an established media presence. And why invest in e-books, another unknown, so to speak. So the publishing industry has stagnated and will continue to stagnate until something really stirs it up. Maybe that something will eventually be low cost e-books, which will hopefully bring us a wider variety of original and interesting voices again.


----------



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

As an addendum to my last post (and I hope this doesn't turn me into a thread-killer , I'm inspired by several of the posts here to recommend John David Rose's _Rescuing Capitalism from Corporatism_. It's not about the publishing industry per se, but corporate America in general. I can't say I agree with all of Rose's arguments; however, he makes a very compelling case about how the rise of megamonster companies has created stagnation and a lack of competition and squeezed out promising small business ventures. One of his most interesting points for me is how much corporations change once their founders pass on the reins to a successor. He uses several examples to illustrate his point, one of these being Walt Disney. Walt Disney, like most company founders, had a vision. He was a creator, an inventor, and he sought the best way to bring his vision to the masses and provide a quality product. The money he and his employees made, although necessary to continue the business and make a profit for the stockholders, was a by-product of his vision. His vision, not the money it made, was his driving force. Once he left his company, the vision slowly faded, occasional flashes of it still present in employees who understood it, but it was no longer the driving force of the company. So what's left when the founder is gone, his vision with him? Money--the corporation becomes all about money.

If you ask most writers why they write, I doubt they'll answer money. Money is a nice by-product, to be sure, but like all artists and inventors, most writers have a vision they want to share with others. This is why writers continue to write, even when they don't make a lot of money.

Unfortunately, Mr. Rose's book isn't available for Kindle, but I highly recommend it just the same. He certainly changed some of my views on big business.


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> I guess I just wanted to stress the point that what publishers put into e-books cost-wise should be less than print books (even after you count the salaries, property costs, etc. involved in any business venture), so why are the e-book versions more expensive or the same as print books in some cases? I see you provided an explanation in another post, so I'm off to read that . . .


I agree with you wholeheartedly on that, actually. I don't agree with what you see some places (not saying you said, just that I've seen this opinion more times than I can count) that eBooks should e DIRT CHEAP because there's no cost of printing :argle bargle: You see the same argument with people kvetching that Massive Multiplayer Online games (think World of Warcraft / Everquest / Lord of the Rings Online) should be free to play because, after all, you bought the game. Conversely, it really BURNS me when I see the eBook marked higher than the paper version. While I believe that there's probably not a huge difference in cost of production (certainly not enough to warrant $1.00 prices on NYT best-sellers) you can't tell me that it costs MORE to produce the eBook. I'd want to see cost balance ratio sheets on that.



purplepen79 said:


> One of his most interesting points for me is how much corporations change once their founders pass on the reins to a successor. He uses several examples to illustrate his point, one of these being Walt Disney. Walt Disney, like most company founders, had a vision.... :snip:


Sounds interesting - I'll definitely check it out  I've noticed that phenomenon a lot in the more creative industries - game design being a big one. I think you see it in movies, too. Small, new companies take a chance on innovative games / movies, but then once they "make it big" - ie. get stock-holders - it's all about "holding the line" and essentially living in the land of copy-cats and sequels. Depressing, really. As far as games go, though, I'm generally guilty. If it's a sequel or expansion pack to a beloved game I'll generally pre-order it. Otherwise, I'm waiting on reviews and word-of-mouth. If that's MY stance as a consumer, I'm not sure I can blame the Suits for having the same outlook, you know?

ETA: I have to say, though, in the case of computer games, that it's their own damned fault. I'd be a lot more likely to try out a game that sounded interesting but I'd never heard of before if I could return the darned thing. The "no returns, period" policy on software means that if you don't like a game you have a $50 coaster, though, and sorry - I don't make enough money to effectively gamble $50 per game. Books and movies are somewhat different - books are returnable, and both are a much lower price-point to boot.


----------



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Arkali said:


> ETA: I have to say, though, in the case of computer games, that it's their own damned fault. I'd be a lot more likely to try out a game that sounded interesting but I'd never heard of before if I could return the darned thing. The "no returns, period" policy on software means that if you don't like a game you have a $50 coaster, though, and sorry - I don't make enough money to effectively gamble $50 per game. Books and movies are somewhat different - books are returnable, and both are a much lower price-point to boot.


That's bizarre about the computer games--you'd think they would at least give you a trial period of some kind. I couldn't imagine putting a book up for sale without offering an excerpt so my potential customers can decide whether they like my writing or not. After all, the last thing I want is someone buying my story on blind faith and then disliking it--all that does is create bad word-of-mouth advertising.

Back to the e-book price thing . . . in my original post, I mentioned a hypothetical situation in which a traditional publisher does a 50,000 copy print run of a particular book, then only sells 25,000 copies at the list price. What happens to the 25,000 not sold at the list price? The book sellers generally have a deal with traditional publishers that they can return any copies not sold and be refunded the wholesale price. However, this can be very costly to the publishers, so many times they'll agree to sell the remaindered copies at low prices at places like Costco (which is how I picked up a hardback copy of Alice Hoffman's _Green Angel _ for the ridiculous price of $5.00) even if they end up losing some money on a sale--it's better than refunding the entire wholesale cost. This is why I think sometimes e-book versions of some popular titles are higher than the print versions. The print versions are not being sold at their original list price, sometimes far from it. I imagine the print versions of those $9.99 and $12.99 e-books had an original list price of $24 or more.


----------



## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

purplepen79 said:


> However, this can be very costly to the publishers, so many times they'll agree to sell the remaindered copies at low prices at places like Costco (which is how I picked up a hardback copy of Alice Hoffman's _Green Angel _ for the ridiculous price of $5.00) even if they end up losing some money on a sale--it's better than refunding the entire wholesale cost. This is why I think sometimes e-book versions of some popular titles are higher than the print versions. The print versions are not being sold at their original list price, sometimes far from it. I imagine the print versions of those $9.99 and $12.99 e-books had an original list price of $24 or more.


That's exactly why it's absurd for publishers to price e-books at or ABOVE the LIST price of printed books -- e-books (thanks to the agency model) can't be discounted and don't need to be remaindered: you pretty much have to pay the full price. There's no bargain bin or Costco. Print books, on the other hand, are often sold at a discount (often a substantial discount, as you point out) to their list price.

So (throwing out some numbers) if the average paperback has a list price of $10, but on average is actually sold for $7.50 (25% discount), then IMHO the e-book should be LESS than $7.50 (not just less than $10).


----------



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

David Derrico said:


> So (throwing out some numbers) if the average paperback has a list price of $10, but on average is actually sold for $7.50 (25% discount), then IMHO the e-book should be LESS than $7.50 (not just less than $10).


One would logically think that's how it would work. However, it seems a case of the right hand deliberately doesn't know what the left hand is doing.


----------



## Lexi Revellian (May 31, 2010)

One thing I've discovered by experimentation is that the price of an ebook makes a _huge _difference. In the UK Kindle Store, I reduced the price of my novel from £2.99 to £0.86. In four days, it's gone from #91,999 to #253 - and it's been even higher. It's now at #1 for Contemporary Romance.

Unaccountably, it hasn't done so well over here...


----------



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> One would logically think that's how it would work. However, it seems a case of the right hand deliberately doesn't know what the left hand is doing.


'zactly. The right hand has plugged its ears (that'd be a sight ) and is saying "La la la! Can't HEEEEAAAARRRR you!!"

Hi, Lexi  Welcome to KindleBoards! Not sure if you're new or not, but this is the first time I've seen you  You might hang out in the Writer's Cafe - those guys are all super supportive of fellow authors from what I've seen 

Oh: ETA:


> That's bizarre about the computer games--you'd think they would at least give you a trial period of some kind. I couldn't imagine putting a book up for sale without offering an excerpt so my potential customers can decide whether they like my writing or not. After all, the last thing I want is someone buying my story on blind faith and then disliking it--all that does is create bad word-of-mouth advertising.


Some companies do release demos, but it's something that varies from game to game. If they don't, you have to try AND buy. And there are NO returns allowed if you break the seal on the DVD jewel case - exchanges only. What REALLY fried me is I went to see if I could return a game I purchased on Steam the other day - nope. What fries me about that is that Steam is an online store that also provides copy-protection on games. So, ummm. Why can't they remove the game from my account? But, yeah. I think that's the biggest reason that the computer games industry is so sequel / bet-on-the-sure-thing oriented.

Second edits (not as satisfying as second breakfasts  ):
Lexi, I just downloaded a sample of your book - it sounds cool


----------



## Guest (Sep 24, 2010)

Well I say again. My $8.88 title sells easily 10x as much as all of my $1 titles put together. I can not explain it...

Wait maybe I can explain it... 
My $8.88 title is 235,300 words which, at $8.88, is still a better deal than 3 novels at $2.99 because most full length novels are only 80-90,000 words long.

That must be it.



unknown2cherubim said:


> First, thanks to all for the thoughtful, persuasive posts.
> 
> Second, I am all for authors, the creators themselves, making all the money they can make. I want them to keep writing worlds that I can escape into and learn from. I don't begrudge them a dime. I hope all my favorite authors are very, very rich.
> 
> Third, though, is what am I buying when I buy an e-book? That's where I'm struggling. I'm not willing to pay more for something I only own the rights to and that's where it stands right now. Until I can gift or give or loan an e-book freely, it isn't worth the price of a hard back, to me. JMO.


Almst every Kindleboard authors books are available at Smashwords in a DRM free format. Just sayin...


----------



## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

M.R. Mathias said:


> Well I say again. My $8.88 title sells easily 10x as much as all of my $1 titles put together. I can not explain it...
> 
> Wait maybe I can explain it...
> My $8.88 title is 235,300 words which, at $8.88, is still a better deal than 3 novels at $2.99 because most full length novels are only 80-90,000 words long.
> ...


Thanks for saying, actually.  I've been wondering about Smashwords.


----------



## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Lexi Revellian said:


> One thing I've discovered by experimentation is that the price of an ebook makes a _huge _difference. In the UK Kindle Store, I reduced the price of my novel from £2.99 to £0.86. In four days, it's gone from #91,999 to #253 - and it's been even higher. It's now at #1 for Contemporary Romance.
> 
> Unaccountably, it hasn't done so well over here...


I was on the Amazon Breakout Novel Award forum a couple months ago, and there was a thread about e-book pricing. The author of The Bum Magnet, Karla Brady, posted about how she had lowered the Kindle version price to $0.99 and watched her sales jump astronomically (I think she was selling 500 e-books a month?!) to the point that Simon & Shuster offered her a book deal. I know from personal experience that when I lowered my price, my sales jumped (not to 500 a month--at least not yet  )

Good luck with your book, Lexi! That's awesome that it's doing so well in the UK.

@ Arkali
Thanks for the reminder about Writer's Cafe. I always get so caught up in the discussions in the Book Corner that I forget there are other great forums on this site.


----------

