# Airline Attendants, Kindles, and FAA rules in use of electronic devices (Merged)



## duck833 (Mar 29, 2009)

On a United Airlines flight from San Francisco to Phoenix today I turned off the Kindle and put it into the seat pocket in front of me.  The Flight Attendant told me books and such must be on the floor or in the overhead and not in the pocket.  I told her I travel lots and this is the first time I have heard of such a thing, she and her partner replied that it is a FAA rule and you can have nothing in those pockets.

So my poor Kindle sat between my feet on talkoff, on landing I hid it next to me on my seat. 

Has anyone else every been told to remove books or Kindle's from the pocket?


----------



## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I haven't been flying since I bought my kindle, but another KB member left the kindle in the seatback pocket when she left the plane.


----------



## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

"books and such"

Really?  I put books in the seat pocket all the time and have never heard this.  And an FAA rule, that makes no sense.  Sounds like a Flight attendant on a bit of a power trip.


----------



## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

That's so weird. I've only been on about four flights with my Kindle, but no one has ever told me to put my Kindle on the floor or in the overhead bin. I always just place it in my lap, and no one comments.

So she's saying you can't have anything in the front pocket when the plane is taking off or landing? Because I've had water bottles and magazines (which the airline puts there) and all kinds of other stuff in the front pocket.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

That sounds wierd to me. I hate to Fly they want to  charge for everythng now. And now you cannot put books etc. in the seat pocket.


----------



## Shizu (Oct 27, 2008)

So what do you put in the front pocket? We can't put anything? That is so weird. It must be a new FAA regulation if that is true. I've been on United many times with my kindle and use front pocket but never been told to do such thing.


----------



## Annie (May 28, 2009)

That makes no sense at all because there's already stuff in there anyway put in there by the airlines. I think the attendant was just being a female dog and her fellow partner just backed her up.


----------



## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

It does sound odd, but after having read what people leave in the seat pockets  , I think under the seat is a far better choice.


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

'An FAA regulation' is the standard reason for anything a flight attendant wants you to do.  I usually take it to mean 'because I said so'.  I travel a lot and I've flown all over the world on numerous airlines and the rules for what one may and may not do during take off and landing varies by attendant pretty much everywhere.  Even within a single airline the rules change for each flight so you just go with it. 

About 80% of the time I can read Brother Joshua during take offs and landings - and sometimes they tell me to put him away.  I travel with a little in-seat travel case with everything I need in it so I just put him away and put the case in the pocket or at my feet or between me and the armrest.  

And I keep an emergency backup pbook in there so I can comply with whatever rule that particular attendant feels like enforcing.  Its easier than arguing as many attendants will turn ugly quite quickly when you don't respect their authority.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm trying to remember, on this latest flight to London from the US, I think it was, they were much more strict about people putting things under the seats and not holding them or putting them in the seat pocket.  So perhaps there is something new...

Betsy


----------



## Kathy (Nov 5, 2008)

I travel a lot and I have been asked to remove it from the front pocket twice. I just put it in my purse for the takeoff and landing. About 50% of the time I am told to turn it off. I think it varies by how much the flight attendant knows about the Kindle.


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Kathy said:


> About 50% of the time I am told to turn it off. I think it varies by how much the flight attendant knows about the Kindle.


most times I'm asked to turn it off are on US carriers. Most of the European and Asian carriers either don't mind or don't notice or something.


----------



## sharyn (Oct 30, 2008)

I just flew on four flights on Delta last weekend (two out to San Francisco and two back) and wasn't even asked to turn my Kindle off during take-offs and landings.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, if I had a bag to put it in on the floor, that's where I'd put it. I don't generally put things in the seat backs as (1) I don't want to forget them and (2) I've _found_ some things in seat backs that I don't want my stuff touching. .

If I didn't have a bag on the floor to put it in, I would get out and put it in the overhead, if holding it in my lap wasn't good enough. I've seen small items slide the whole length of the plane on takeoff and landing.

I guess I don't see the problem with just holding it, except I guess it's one more bit of evidence that they want you actually listening to the emergency escape stuff. . . .best solution is to wear an over the shoulder bag to stow it in. Which would be under my sweater as airplanes are _always_ cold to me.


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Although, think about it. Most people have a book in their hands on takeoff and landing. Has anyone ever been asked to put a book away?

I just flew back and forth to Chicago last week. I read my Kindle the whole time. No one ever asked me to turn it off or put it away. 

I always put my purse under the seat in front of me and my backpack in the overhead bin. If someone did ask me to put my K away, I'd put it in my purse. Like Ann said, those seat back pockets can be nasty. And, I've read about a few people who did accidentally leave their Kindle behind and I wouldn't want that to happen.

L


----------



## jgirvine (Jun 17, 2009)

Ok, Flight Attendant here.....34 year flight attendant...so one of those old f***s.

Yes, the Flight Attendant's were correct.  FAA reg says you are not to have anything "hard" in the seat back pocket.  If things go very very bad, they can come out and be projectiles to injure people.  So, if I see it, I am going to ask you to remove it.  As far as folks saying I have flown x number of times and never been asked.  Keep in mind we are walking down quickly, we have to get to our jump seats, as we are doing this we are looking for (usually in very bad lighting):

folks we would call on for help in an emergency.
Are seat belts fastened.
is the overhead bins good and closed and won't pop open
tray tables up
seat backs up
do the folks in the exit row meat the faa "exit row critiea"
lap children, do the parents have the seat belt around just the parent or have they placed it around themselves and the child (correct answer just the parent, hold the child)
if a child has their own seat are they in a booster seat (faa bans booster seats)
if a child is in a car seat, is it at the window seat (faa says car seats can not block a passenger getting to the aisle)
if a child is in a car seat, is that cars eat forward or aft of an exit row, (yep, faa says that is a no no also)
that the area around folks feet is clear so if there was an emergency evac on takeoff are they are not gong to trip over all that crap at their feet.
no bag set in the seat next to them
everybody is sitting up (faa says no laying down for take off and landing).
anything hard in the seat back pocket
and the every popular faa rule,  that every one is so willing to follow.... are all electronic devises off.


ps, a lot of flight attendants do not yet realize what the Kindle is....we are just start to see them in any numbers.  Everytime I bring mine out they are:
"What is that?"  
"Oh, is that what I am seeing passengers use?"  
"IT"S ELECTRONIC, I did not know that."


----------



## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

> I just flew on four flights on Delta last weekend (two out to San Francisco and two back) and wasn't even asked to turn my Kindle off during takeoffs and landings.


I think you were asked everytime during the safety announcement  When they say "if it has an On/Off button it needs to be in the off position" Kindles count  . On K1 it is on the top, K2 you slide the bar on the top 3-5 seconds, same on DX. I don't generally wait for a personal invitation to follow the rules, but I guess that is the second grade teacher in me  , I can't count how many times a year my kids and I have that conversation  . Before I taught 2ND grade I was an R.N. in a Cardiovascular Intensive Care Unit and I get creep-ed out thinking about how dirty _the inside_ of those pockets must be  . I get cold on planes, so I take my k2 when I travel and the inside of the Hard Rock Cafe jean jacket I wear has a _huge_ inside pocket (for reasons I never understood until I began to travel with my kk) and that is where it goes.
@jgirvine:
"We have to get to our jump seats"
I met my husband skydiving, and I think of that everytime I walk by those jump seats


----------



## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

jgirvine said:


> Ok, Flight Attendant here.....34 year flight attendant...so one of those old f***s.


Thanks for posting that. Always glad to see the people in the trenches furnish actual info. 

Mike


----------



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I understand there are rules and it's all for my safety and all that stuff and that grownups should know better ... but I think the rule is as foolish as the no matches/lighters, random bag search or 3oz. per liquid container rules.  So, I don't necessarily comply.  (but then I don't necessarily comply with speed limits or jaywalking or removing the pillow tag rules either)  On the other hand, I won't cause a scene about it. 


I do as the flight attendants ask - and usually crack a joke while doing it .... but that's because a) I've seen how awful life is for people who act the spoiled little monster on a plane and b) being nice to flight attendants (especially on long-haul flights) increases the chances of extras treats, free alcohol, entertaining chitchat and the like.


----------



## ReconDelta (Jul 22, 2009)

The Kindle is a hard plastic/metal device that if it became airborne during a rough landing/take-off it could kill someone (especially a DX).   With the rash of recent airline issues, I am personally happy the airline is monitoring people so closely.  If a Kindle hit me over the head because some moron decided they were too good to properly store their device, I would be quite angry.   If it hit my two year old, their kindle would get shoved up their personal seat back, sideways.

Society as a whole needs to STOP with the ME and think about the whole.   I'm the guy who starts with dirty looks, then proceeds to walk over to chat with the cell phone talker who continues on AFTER being told to turn off their phones.   Trust me you're not that important your call can wait.   Also, your kid will remember to turn the VCR on to record the 4:30 Oprah without you reminding her.

So please do everyone a favor and just turn off the Kindle, cell phone, and other electronic devices, for the 20 minutes at take off and landing.


----------



## BruceS (Feb 7, 2009)

I can see why, in the event of a crash, placing it in the overhead compartment would be safer the holding it in your lap, but how it placing it on the floor supposed to be safer than the seat pocket?

It seems to me that an item laying on the floor is much more likely to become a projectile, than one which is in a seat pocket.


----------



## JimC1946 (Aug 6, 2009)

I was on two Delta flights in July, and I put my K2 in the seat pocket, as did a fellow across the aisle from me. No one said anything about it. My biggest fear of putting anything in the seat pocket is forgetting to take it with me when I get off the plane.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

JimC1946 said:


> I was on two Delta flights in July, and I put my K2 in the seat pocket, as did a fellow across the aisle from me. No one said anything about it. My biggest fear of putting anything in the seat pocket is forgetting to take it with me when I get off the plane.


I would be afraid of putting it in the pocket because I may forget to take it too.


----------



## Guernsey (May 21, 2009)

I was on a flight and a Kindle from a row or two back came sliding up the floor to my row on landing. I don't know how the person had "stowed" it but it wasn't secure. With some of the recent severe flight turbulence issues, I can see why flight attendants ask it to be removed from pockets if they see it.


----------



## Crodley (Feb 26, 2009)

Quote: "FAA reg says you are not to have anything "hard" in the seat back pocket. If things go very very bad, they can come out and be *projectiles to injure people*."

And then, Quote:"I think the rule is as foolish as the no matches/lighters, random bag search or 3oz. per liquid container rules. So, I don't necessarily comply. "

I can only say wow to that comment.


----------



## rho (Feb 12, 2009)

Guernsey said:


> I was on a flight and a Kindle from a row or two back came sliding up the floor to my row on landing. I don't know how the person had "stowed" it but it wasn't secure. With some of the recent severe flight turbulence issues, I can see why flight attendants ask it to be removed from pockets if they see it.


it was probably at the persons feet like they told the op -  - I would put it in my bag that I put under the seat - I would be afraid I would forget it if I put it in the seat thing anyway -

edited to add -- with my luck if I put it at my feet I would step on it ...


----------



## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

I finally had an attendant ask me to turn my K2 off for take off on my last flight from Tokyo. I just pointed to where the wireless indicator says says 'OFF" and told her it was off. She accepted that and moved on. If I was asked to put my K2 under my seat I would say it would break and insist on putting it in my bag in the overhead.


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Crodley said:


> Quote: "FAA reg says you are not to have anything "hard" in the seat back pocket. If things go very very bad, they can come out and be *projectiles to injure people*."
> 
> And then, Quote:"I think the rule is as foolish as the no matches/lighters, random bag search or 3oz. per liquid container rules. So, I don't necessarily comply. "
> 
> I can only say wow to that comment.


Some of us are minor rebels. Major rebels blow up buildings. Minor rebels leave their Kindles on during take off and landing. What can I say? We all need to assert our individualism every now and then.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

^^^  Well, and I have to say, if things go "very very bad", the fact that a Kindle might become a projectile is, perhaps, the least of one's worries.    Still, I say:  better to put it in a personal travel bag. . . then, assuming you survive the "very very bad", with luck it will as well. . . .  

And, if not, at least you have something to send back to Amazon.


----------



## DailyLunatic (Aug 4, 2009)

Crodley said:


> Quote: "FAA reg says you are not to have anything "hard" in the seat back pocket. If things go very very bad, they can come out and be *projectiles to injure people*."


I've always been a Boy Scout when it comes to rules, but...

How is a hard object laying loose on the floor between my feet safer than it is in a spring loaded seat pocket?


----------



## suicidepact (May 17, 2009)

Amen to that. I always take all the junk magazines they put in the seat pocket -minus the safety instructions- and put them in the overhead or in the galley, so usually my K2 will fit in there anyway.


----------



## ReconDelta (Jul 22, 2009)

"How is a hard object laying loose on the floor between my feet safer than it is in a spring loaded seat pocket?"

Certainly no physicist, but I think due to several reasons.  Most harmful turbulence would be mostly a verticle force not horizontal.  So a device in a seat back would fall "up" while if under the seat it would be stopped by the seat.  

Additionally if I store a Kindle (not been flying since I bought mine) under my seat it would be in a brief case or bag, not laying in the open.  I learned the hard way to place books in a case when I had one slide forward several rows once during landing.  

The recent Continental flight that experienced turbulance dropped several hundred feet causing passengers not buckled in hit their heads on the ceiling, then fell back to their seats.  A Kindle in a seat back wouldn't be good for the Kindle or the passengers.  

Certainly not every situation would meet this criteria but I feel the seat back versus under the seat is similar to the argument used by some that a vehicle seatbelt could kill me if it gets stuck in a vehicle fire, etc.  Yes that is true if somehow a seat belt became stuck in a rare mishap you could burn alive in a vehicle fire.  Yet the odds tell me you're more likely to die if you're thrown through the windshield; headfirst in a a very common frontal impact.


----------



## jgirvine (Jun 17, 2009)

Let me ask you this guys, do you know that if an FAA inspector is riding on a plane  that he can do a "personal fine" against a flight attendant that does not tell a passenger they are violating an FAA rule?


----------



## The Atomic Bookworm (Jul 20, 2009)

jgirvine said:


> Let me ask you this guys, do you know that if an FAA inspector is riding on a plane that he can do a "personal fine" against a flight attendant that does not tell a passenger they are violating an FAA rule?


Are you asking if this is true, or are you establishing that this is true and phrasing it in an "did you know that..." manner?

And a reminder to the "minor rebels" on the board: there are Air Marshalls in flights all over the country, the odds are that you've flown in a plane with one and not know it, and they can arrest you for your "minor act of rebellion" because you failed to obey the instructions of the flight attendant.


----------



## Ruby296 (Nov 1, 2008)

The Atomic Bookworm said:


> And a reminder to the "minor rebels" on the board: there are Air Marshalls in flights all over the country, the odds are that you've flown in a plane with one and not know it, and they can arrest you for your "minor act of rebellion" because you failed to obey the instructions of the flight attendant.


Yes, this is very true. On one of our flights home from FL in Feb. my dh and one daughter's seats were moved so the 2 air marshalls could sit together (as told by the flight attendant). And on my flight from San Francisco to Dulles in May there were 2 AM's in the cabin I was in. They are everywhere nowadays.


----------



## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

duck833 said:


> On a United Airlines flight from San Francisco to Phoenix today I turned off the Kindle and put it into the seat pocket in front of me. The Flight Attendant told me books and such must be on the floor or in the overhead and not in the pocket. I told her I travel lots and this is the first time I have heard of such a thing, she and her partner replied that it is a FAA rule and you can have nothing in those pockets.
> 
> So my poor Kindle sat between my feet on talkoff, on landing I hid it next to me on my seat.
> 
> Has anyone else every been told to remove books or Kindle's from the pocket?


I would have then handed her all the material the airline placed in the seat pocket. Sorry, but this was just a very misinformed flight attendant.


----------



## jaylynn (Feb 2, 2009)

I also noticed, in the last few weeks, that on two of the six flights I took on various airlines, people were asked to remove things from the seat pocket, but only during takeoff and landing.  These included bottles of water and books.  After takeoff, it didn't matter what people put in the pockets.  

I also saw an attendant ask very nicely that a dog in a carrier be put under the window, not the aisle seat, as part of an FAA regulation.  I can see why-- if there was an emergency, I think a dog would be better off a little farther away from the aisle.  The people who owned the dog were butts about it and were rude to her. It's a hard job, imo.


----------



## Ms Deb (Feb 23, 2009)

I always hold my Kindle during takeoff and landing.  Most of the time I am reading it.  I have only been asked once to turn it off - I closed the cover briefly then resumed reading once the flight attendant sat down for takeoff.  It never occurs to me to put anything but trash in the front pockets - I would forget it was there and leave without it.  I have had a Kindle of some version since the first day they shipped, and I fly a lot, so I guess I have been lucky with flight attendants.


----------



## ak rain (Nov 15, 2008)

you get a lot more help from a happy attendants with that in mind I ask the rebals to be carefull please.
I have also found real nasty stuff in the seat pockets I would avoid those
sylvia


----------



## happyblob (Feb 21, 2009)

> "How is a hard object laying loose on the floor between my feet safer than it is in a spring loaded seat pocket?"
> 
> Certainly no physicist, but I think due to several reasons. Most harmful turbulence would be mostly a verticle force not horizontal. So a device in a seat back would fall "up" while if under the seat it would be stopped by the seat.
> 
> ...


May not be a physicist but certainly a master of air safety and statistical dynamics of coherent structures.


----------



## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

I have not flown since I got my kindle, well I take that back, when I first got it and came home, but have not flown since then.  I always wear a fanny pack, or a small over the shoulder bag snugged under my seat belt.  I have thought about what I would do with my kindle when I do fly again, and I would probably put it in my shoulder bag, or be sure to have a fanny pack big enough to hold it.



modified to add - thanks for the info jgirvine, it's nice to have "official" info.


----------



## DailyLunatic (Aug 4, 2009)

ReconDelta said:


> Certainly no physicist, but I think due to several reasons. Most harmful turbulence would be mostly a verticle force not horizontal. So a device in a seat back would fall "up" while if under the seat it would be stopped by the seat.


...and I haven't played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

Look, I could see your argument better if the seat pocket were just a slot with no retaining ability. i.e. everything in it could slide out if tipped upside down. However, all the seat pockets I have ever seen were spring loaded and hug the contents rather firmly. I see a much more likely danger with water bottles, Kindles, books, shoes, DSi's, etc being loose and taking a weird spin during moderate to high turbulence than I do with those same objects, in the same conditions, but confined. More importantly, the stories of objects sliding several rows in this thread alone testify to the fact that the forces under discussion are not a simple inversion of gravity as you seem to feel.

Its moot anyway. I'm not the rebel type. I'm going to smile and do what the lady asks regardless. Most people, maybe not Kindle owners, will simply drop the hard object on the floor, loose, to shut her up. I simply feel this regulation, as stated, will cause more injury than it will prevent by creating more loose objects that can lead to injury.

Sterling
92.5% Pure


----------



## jazzi (May 4, 2009)

Guernsey said:


> I was on a flight and a Kindle from a row or two back came sliding up the floor to my row on landing.


Congratulations on the new kindle!


----------



## Guest (Aug 10, 2009)

ReconDelta said:


> The Kindle is a hard plastic/metal device that if it became airborne during a rough landing/take-off it could kill someone (especially a DX). With the rash of recent airline issues, I am personally happy the airline is monitoring people so closely. If a Kindle hit me over the head because some moron decided they were too good to properly store their device, I would be quite angry. If it hit my two year old, their kindle would get shoved up their personal seat back, sideways.
> 
> Society as a whole needs to STOP with the ME and think about the whole. I'm the guy who starts with dirty looks, then proceeds to walk over to chat with the cell phone talker who continues on AFTER being told to turn off their phones. Trust me you're not that important your call can wait. Also, your kid will remember to turn the VCR on to record the 4:30 Oprah without you reminding her.
> 
> So please do everyone a favor and just turn off the Kindle, cell phone, and other electronic devices, for the 20 minutes at take off and landing.


Quoted for truth. People can't see beyond their own wants.


----------



## duck833 (Mar 29, 2009)

Flew again on Sunday, Allegiant this time.  They fly MD80's.  The hard plastic seat pocket in front does not expand, only big enough for their magazines and safety information and a couple of barf bags.  No room for a book, water bottle or a Kindle.  Seems they solved the problem.


----------



## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I flew this weekend. I was not asked to turn off my Kindle so I continued reading. I don't put Tavar in the seat back pocket, I would be worried about leaving him, I put him in my bag under the seat when I am not reading.

When asked to turn off my Kindle, I do. When the attendants are seated, I will pull it out and read. I did have a flight attendant tell people that they could not use "Flight Attendant reducing headsets" during take off and landing. That she would try and keep announcements short but that people needed to be able to hear her in case of emergency. It made me smile. So I did use the headsets (they reduce noise but I can hold a normal conversation, I just don't hear the engines as badly) but I did not turn on my IPod until we were cleared to do so.

Call me a rebel if you will. I know that Tavar uses a small amount of energy when changing pages. I know my noise reducing headsets allow me to hold a normal conversation and hear people. Neither of which endangers me or anyone else around me. I do not give the Flight Attendant a hard time if asked to turn them off and put them away. But I don't wait for clearance to turn them back on.


----------



## Ashleym (Jul 27, 2009)

jgirvine said:


> Let me ask you this guys, do you know that if an FAA inspector is riding on a plane that he can do a "personal fine" against a flight attendant that does not tell a passenger they are violating an FAA rule?


What jgirvine wants people to know is that if a FAA inflight inspector is on board and a flight attendant did not perform all the rules and regulation required that individual Attendant could be fined some fines could be in the thousands of dollars. I know this because I was a flight attendant for Continental Airlline for 2 years and United for 11 years. Individual Flight attendant do not make up the rules FAA does and not just to make peoples lives miserable. There is a reason for each rules they enforce and if they dont catch you being that "rebel" good for you hope you dont get hurt or hurt someone else on that flight. I personnally appreciate all the work a Flight Attendant does as server, customer service, police officer, nurse, doctor, firefighter, and last line of defense against someone trying to get thru that cockpit door. Unfortunatly most people only see them as waiters in the sky hopefully they never will need them to perform CPR or get them thru an emergency. Just my 2cent


----------



## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

As someone who loves to fly - but hates take off and landing - I just keep everything put away, except my rosary beads. LOL!  Seriously though, my stomach is always in such a knot during those times that I can't even concentrate. I don't even bother to pull out any reading material until I'm well in the clouds.


----------



## Hopeful76 (Jun 24, 2009)

I just took a trip by plane, flew last Wednesday and back yesterday (Monday).  On both trips I was told to turn my Kindle off during takeoff and landing, but was allowed to put it in the seat pocket.

For the flight attendants here, is the Kindle considered one of the devices that must be shut off during takeoff and landing?  I always comply (too easy going to be a rebel), but was curious if having it on (with wireless off) would cause any problems.


----------



## Ashleym (Jul 27, 2009)

Hopeful76 said:


> I just took a trip by plane, flew last Wednesday and back yesterday (Monday). On both trips I was told to turn my Kindle off during takeoff and landing, but was allowed to put it in the seat pocket.
> 
> For the flight attendants here, is the Kindle considered one of the devices that must be shut off during takeoff and landing? I always comply (too easy going to be a rebel), but was curious if having it on (with wireless off) would cause any problems.


Hi Hopeful anything with a off and on switch has to be turned off for take off, landing and taxi. Wireless has to be turned off at all stages of flight. All items should be placed under the seat or in the overhead even tho the Kindle is slim it does have a hard case and can cause injury if it does come out of the seat back due to hard landing, turbulance. Can you imagin the corner of the kindle hitting you upside the head that would hurt. Most times a Flight attendant wont even notice the Kindle since it is so slim in the seat pocket but its always a good idea to place the kindle under the seat in a bag.


----------



## Raffeer (Nov 19, 2008)

What is my non-techie mind not getting. When I turn the wireless off on my Kindle (illustrated on the screen with "off" clearly stated) it becomes a battery operated device. My hearing aids are also battery operated devices. Shouldn't they be required to be turned off also?


----------



## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

I think compliance would be greater if all these FAA regulations were posted somewhere conspicuous. I've NEVER had someone tell me to take something out of the seat pocket, so it is either a new reg or a poorly enforced one.

Personally, I just take advantage of the semblance a jacketed Kindle has to a real book and angle it so that the stewardess won't realize it is an electronic device and read away. I suppose if I were SERIOUS I could hollow out a real book and make the ultimate stealth jacket, but so far I've been able to stay uninterrupted on all but 1 flight.


----------



## khttk98 (Nov 18, 2008)

A few years ago when I worked for a commuter airline as part of the ground crew we had an air show and the Army Golden Knights came as part of the show.  They let us tour the plane and told us all kinds of things like the electronic equipment being turned off is just a rule it has nothing to do with the navigation equipment.  They get on their laptops or listen to music all the time they said.  A pilot told us the most dangerous part of a flight is take off and landing because that is the time when the plane is actually under control of one of the pilots.  The rest of the time it is on autopilot unless there is a problem.  Since the dangerous time is during take off and landing they want you to be paying attention to your flight attendants in case there is an emergency this is the reason for the no electronics rule.  We were also told that cell phone use is not prohibited during flight for any reason other than they pull from so many towers at the same time one single call takes up too much traffic space and really who wants to sit next to the person who yacks loudly about boring stuff for an entire flight.  As for flight attendants I was friends with many of them that came through our station.  The plane over nighted in our small town and we would oftentimes go pick them up at the hotel to sight see our area.  I can't imagine the job they do especially when a passenger becomes a smart aleck and they are trapped in the aircraft with that person for the duration of the flight.  I can't help it I'm one of those people that always wants to knows why there is a rule.  Those seat backs ...... do I have stories about those!  We cleaned the plane at night and we found all kinds of stuff in those backs ..... books, receipts with full credit card numbers on them, most times partially eaten food!  Watch out for those!


----------



## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

If you want more info go to:

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/

In particular go to the link for Passengers Frequently Asked Question and note the answers to questions 3 and 9.
You might also want to follow the link in those to the applicable Advisory Circulars.
Specifically, of note is that it is up to the INDIVIDUAL AIRLINE and/or PLANE CAPTAIN as to what is and is not allowed with respect to most personal electronic devices.

Regardless of whether *you* believe it to be safe, or a "silly" request, or whatever is pretty much irrelevant. 
If you believe it to be silly or whatever, your recourse is to petition the airline to change their requirements, or file a complaint with the airlines or FAA -- refusing to comply is *NOT* something you have as a recourse.
If they ask you to turn it off and stow it and you do not comply you *can* face charges.

Just so long as you are aware of the consequences.....


----------



## jmeaders (Jan 8, 2009)

suicidepact said:


> I finally had an attendant ask me to turn my K2 off for take off on my last flight from Tokyo. I just pointed to where the wireless indicator says says 'OFF" and told her it was off. She accepted that and moved on. If I was asked to put my K2 under my seat I would say it would break and insist on putting it in my bag in the overhead.


Why not just hold it? I usually just hold it in my lap so I can quickly get back to where I was.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

You are not allowed to hold hard objects in your lap.

I noticed on all my recent flights (VA to London, London to Finland, Finland to London, London to Virginia) that the attendants were much more rigorous about people not holding things during takeoff and landing than I've ever seen them before.  Even pillows and blankets were moved.

Betsy


----------



## ReconDelta (Jul 22, 2009)

I do think airline staff deserve a thank you, similar to those received by the military, police, firemen, and teachers.   

One of the greatest heroes of today is Capt Sully.   Evidenced by his very nature of simply stating he just did what he was trained to do, and his staff was exceptional.

My take on this policy, if there is even a slight chance for increased safety for myself or another, I would gladly put my Kindle away for a short period of time.   I do tend to believe aircraft electronic systems are far more secure and stable than to be effected by a Kindle or iPod.  As previously stated the rules are made by the FAA, take it up with them, not the messenger.

I've flown quite a bit, and never once had a problem with airline staff.   I show a great deal more respect for those doing a difficult job, than I do for someone who can catch a football or sing a song.

Thanks flight crews, keep up the tough fight, you make the world a better place.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Well said, ReconDelta!

Betsy


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> You are not allowed to hold hard objects in your lap.
> 
> . . . . . .
> 
> ...


Hmmm. . . . makes one question the quality of pillows and blankets on those flights.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Can't comment as I didn't use them, LOL!

Harry Potter books (British edition) were also not allowed in laps but had to be stowed in carry on luggage.


Betsy


----------



## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Part of the reason for asking pillows and blankets to be moved is to make sure that your seatbelt is buckled with being obvious about it.


----------



## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

scarlet said:


> Part of the reason for asking pillows and blankets to be moved is to make sure that your seatbelt is buckled with being obvious about it.


Also, less to trip over shoud a quick exit be required.


----------



## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

intinst said:


> Also, less to trip over shoud a quick exit be required.


True!


----------



## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I had the unpleasant experience of an Alitalia flight from Rome to Venice a few years ago... They did not require people to put on the seat belts.... or to be _in the seats_... There were children running around during take-off and landing. It was very strange, as well as nerve-wracking.


----------



## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

The Italians do have a different idea about how to handle a plane flight. I remember people bringing picnic lunches and hardly any one sitting down on my flights to and from Milan. They did sit during landing and takeoff. That strikes me as weird.


----------



## jcrain9663 (Jun 23, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> I had the unpleasant experience of an Alitalia flight from Rome to Venice a few years ago... They did not require people to put on the seat belts.... or to be _in the seats_... There were children running around during take-off and landing. It was very strange, as well as nerve-wracking.


Not to mention the fact that there is no such thing as an orderly line in Italy. Waiting to board a plane or proceed through security checkpoints is more like a mob at some airports I've flown through in that country. I saw children nearly get trampled. As the more experienced traveler (when in Rome, ....), I told my husband "just hang onto me and keep up" and pushed my way through like everyone else.

When they lost my luggage (there was a strike of the luggage handlers in Milan that day), it sounded like a riot with a crowd of people at a counter yelling out names and details (in English, Italian, and French) with only 2 clerks to take care of no less than 150 passengers. It took two hours to get out of that "line".

I now try to control my temper when it comes to delays on US airlines, because I know it could be SO much worse. Besides, I have my Kindle to occupy the extra time.


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Hmmm. . . . makes one question the quality of pillows and blankets on those flights.


There are no pillows and blankets anymore...have to bring your own. That went away with the swine flu scare last year.


----------



## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> There are no pillows and blankets anymore...have to bring your own. That went away with the swine flu scare last year.


Not true. I had a blanket on my seat for both legs of my flight on American Airlines this past weekend.


----------



## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Am I the only one who actually listens to the spiel the airline attendants go through?  I have flown enough to be able to recite it with them, but I figure if they have to say it I can be courteous enough to listen.  Yes my book is more interesting, but a breather won't hurt.  I even look at the cards in the seat pocket, but along with everyone else don't want to put anything in it that I want to keep.


----------



## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Am I the only one who actually listens to the spiel the airline attendants go through? I have flown enough to be able to recite it with them, but I figure if they have to say it I can be courteous enough to listen. Yes my book is more interesting, but a breather won't hurt. I even look at the cards in the seat pocket, but along with everyone else don't want to put anything in it that I want to keep.


No I listen as well. First thing I do upon reaching my seat is find the Emergency Exits. Being in the industry, I know that flying is safe, but things do happen. I have been asked to sit by the exit to be the one to open it, if needed, and do not mind at all. I know how to get it out of the way and will ensure that people are able to exit.


----------



## sroecker0 (Aug 2, 2009)

I have been flying since I was 5 and that cant be real rule. I ALWAYS have books with me when i fly and if it fits in there then its aloud. I think that flight attendant was just having a bad day.


----------



## zeferjen (Feb 24, 2009)

Interesting. I always mentally roll my eyes that we have to turn off electronic devices during takeoff and landing. If my Kindle can bring down the plane, then the terrorists have a much easier job and wouldn't bother smuggling weapons concealed in their shoes. That said, I am a rule-follower as well and always have turned it off whe told. 

I'm flying in a few weeks and hope that I won't have any issues keeping my Kindle near me in my seat.


----------



## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I count the number of seats between me and the exit when I get on the plane. I behind me so I can see if there is an exit closer back that way. If there is, I do a seat count. I read the safety pamphlet. I tend to ignore the Flight Attendant announcements unless they are really loud. Jet Blue makes it next to impossible to ignore the Flight Attendant announcements. American made it really easy to ignore the announcements. (shrugs)


----------



## ReconDelta (Jul 22, 2009)

I usually listen as well, count the seats, determine if front or back is the closest, sit at an exit row if able, dress in loose fitting cotton, wear shoes I can run with, and keep an eye on other passengers.   I'm not someone who is scared of flying in the slightest, but traveling 500mph at 35000 feet will never truly be routine.


----------



## DailyLunatic (Aug 4, 2009)

ReconDelta said:


> My take on this policy, if there is even a slight chance for increased safety for myself or another, I would gladly put my Kindle away for a short period of time.


Of course. ...but what if they asked you to do something that you felt did not 'increase' safety? ...that you felt 'decreased' safety?

Would you blindly obey the rule anyway? Question to try to understand? What?

Sterling
92.5% Pure


----------



## ricky (Dec 24, 2008)

I assume that the attendants know more than I do about safety issues when I am a passenger on a commercial heavy airliner.  I have piloted smaller General Aviation aircraft and while I was learning and practicing to fly, and then flying by myself;  I learned that the average person actually knows very little about aircraft and flying.
If a particular attendant is not up to speed on how a Kindle works, then no sweat for me... I'll turn her off and tuck her in safely.  I spent most of my flying time, as a passenger, looking out of the window anyway... the views create incredible awake dreamtime............. Not Available Any Place Else!!!!  I generally read her only while waiting for take-off, or if there is a moonless night outside with no rain... however she always goes with me on any flight, I need her company at our destination.


----------



## sepharad (Jan 19, 2010)

Here is a link to a NY Times article on the issue. FAA triggered this response which is not a RULE, but advisement to airlines. Some airlines have flatly said we don't care, that's what the carriers are for.

Forgive me but we have accepted all the air travel hogwash the feds and airlines have force fed us, and so they have a green light to keep piling it on. When I heard my village-idiot cousin, who CANNOT keep a job was hired by Homeland security to work the airport, I understood completely that this is travel/terror theater, not real security. Switch airlines, tell both your old and new airlines that if they kiss FAA/homeland security As*, you will again change carriers, send the name of the attendant as well. The choice is yours, speak up or eat up. My money talks when I walk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/business/25road.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Wow...zombie thread, three years old.  How did you even find it?  I'd forgotten it.    And I don't think the article you cited exactly says that the airlines don't have to follow the FAA guideline.... *shrug*

Betsy


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FWIW, I would not advise putting your kindle in the seat pocket because (a) it's nasty in there and (b) it's too easy to leave it behind!


----------



## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Wow...zombie thread, three years old. How did you even find it? I'd forgotten it.  And I don't think the article you cited exactly says that the airlines don't have to follow the FAA guideline.... *shrug*
> 
> Betsy


that article is from 2009, so it's as old as this thred.



Ann in Arlington said:


> FWIW, I would not advise putting your kindle in the seat pocket because (a) it's nasty in there and (b) it's too easy to leave it behind!


only time the kindle goes in the set back is when i go to the restroom. it gets pulled out as soon as i get back to my seat!
and goes in my backpack for take off and landing.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

telracs said:


> that article is from 2009, so it's as old as this thred.


I saw that. At least it's age appropriate, LOL! I feel like I'm in a time capsule...

Betsy


----------



## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I saw that. At least it's age appropriate, LOL! I feel like I'm in a time capsule...
> 
> Betsy


i feel that after 3 years, things have changed so that the original scenario AND the article are both pretty worthless.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I didn't bother to read the article. . . . but it is definitely the case that Kindles and tablet devices are WAY WAY more prevalent than they were in 2009. . . .so, yeah. . . any conclusions drawn based on tech at that time are probably no longer valid.


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

ReconDelta said:


> The Kindle is a hard plastic/metal device that if it became airborne during a rough landing/take-off it could kill someone (especially a DX). With the rash of recent airline issues, I am personally happy the airline is monitoring people so closely. If a Kindle hit me over the head because some moron decided they were too good to properly store their device, I would be quite angry. If it hit my two year old, their kindle would get shoved up their personal seat back, sideways.
> 
> Society as a whole needs to STOP with the ME and think about the whole. I'm the guy who starts with dirty looks, then proceeds to walk over to chat with the cell phone talker who continues on AFTER being told to turn off their phones. Trust me you're not that important your call can wait. Also, your kid will remember to turn the VCR on to record the 4:30 Oprah without you reminding her.
> 
> So please do everyone a favor and just turn off the Kindle, cell phone, and other electronic devices, for the 20 minutes at take off and landing.


Mine's in a padded cover with soft edges/corners.

It will go where I decide *my device* is safe. A flight attendant wont be standing over me at takeoff/landing. I have no need to shove that information in his or her's face however.


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

MamaProfCrash said:


> I count the number of seats between me and the exit when I get on the plane. I behind me so I can see if there is an exit closer back that way. If there is, I do a seat count. I read the safety pamphlet. I tend to ignore the Flight Attendant announcements unless they are really loud. Jet Blue makes it next to impossible to ignore the Flight Attendant announcements. American made it really easy to ignore the announcements. (shrugs)


In a true stress situation, good luck counting anything accurately.

I'm serious. I train for stress situations (some firearm-related) and have done law enforcement.

I have had to fully concentrate to count to 5 when doing CPR to not mess it up (& I was a qualified instructor at the time). Accurately dialing a phone number requires much more concentration. (Not to mention that fine motor skills also may fly out the window)

You might do better to look for more visual clues, altho in darkness or smoke that wont necessarily work either.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Zombie thread arises again. . . . . 

Lursa, this thread was resurrected a couple of days ago, but, except for the last handful of posts, everything in it (including the posts you're responding to) is at least 3 years old.


----------



## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

The seat back pocket is designed to hold 3 lbs. Airlines already use it for several magazines, emergency literature, and barf bags. So how much of that 3 lbs do you figure is left over? FAs do not have a scale to weigh everyone's gadgets.

I cannot speak as a FA,but as a mechanic. The FAA fines me personally, up to $10,000 per flight leg per infraction. If there were any question about the legality of something going in that pocket, believe me I would be telling you to stow it in an approved storage area. Not to mention, as a mechanic I have had my fill of broken seat back/pockets. It is designed to hold emergency literature and barf bags.

My profound gratitude to all the FAs who do an increasingly unappreciated job for less money and more time away from home.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/media/2009/InF9018.pdf


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Zombie thread arises again. . . . .
> 
> Lursa, this thread was resurrected a couple of days ago, but, except for the last handful of posts, everything in it (including the posts you're responding to) is at least 3 years old.


Ah, cheers!


----------



## Trophywife007 (Aug 31, 2009)

I can't resist replying to this.  

If they are so worried about projectiles in case of a real emergency, why do they allow parents to hold children on their laps?


----------



## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/travel/faa-electronics/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

And the FAA is once again reconsidering the consumer electronics issue.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah. .. heard that on the news. . . . .


----------



## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

Here's the story: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/travel/faa-electronics/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Note that they'll be accepting public comment on Tuesday.


----------



## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Would be nice if we could use Kindles and iPads etc. for the whole flight.  Take off and landing can be pretty boring otherwise, and I don't often hassle with bringing a magazine etc. for those times.

As for the seat back pocket, I often put my Kindle or iPad (depending on which I have) in the seat pocket after sitting down so it's easily accessible once I can use it.  No one's ever said anything about it, and it's never came close to coming out of the pocket, those pockets are generally pretty snug fits.  I've never left anything either as I always put all my stuff away when they announce the start of the landing cycle and to turn everything off etc.


----------



## Zorrosuncle (Nov 11, 2008)

Subject: Stowage of Items in Seat Pockets
Purpose: To clarify guidance for air carriers about the stowage of items in seat pockets.
Discussion: Existing Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) policy in FAA Order 8900.1, Volume 3, Chapter 33, Section 6, Operations—Cabin Safety, states that carry-on baggage programs should …”Prohibit the stowage of carry-on baggage and other items in the lavatories and seat back pockets (the only items allowed in seat back pockets should be magazines and passenger information cards)…”
The intent of the carry-on baggage regulation, Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 121, § 121.589, is to prevent carry-on items from slowing an emergency evacuation and to prevent injury to passengers by ensuring items are properly restrained. Seat pockets have been designed to restrain approximately 3 pounds of weight and not the weight of additional carry-on items. Seat pockets are not listed in the regulation as an approved stowage location for carry-on baggage. If a seat pocket fails to restrain its contents, the contents of the seat pocket may impede emergency evacuation or may strike and injure a passenger.
If small, lightweight items, such as eyeglasses or a cell phone, can be placed in the seat pocket without exceeding the total designed weight limitation of the seat pocket or so that the seat pocket does not block anyone from evacuating the row of seats, it may be safe to do so.
The requirements of the carry-on baggage regulation are applicable to take-off and landing. Nothing in the carry-on baggage regulation prohibits a passenger from taking out small personal items from an approved stowage location and placing them in the seat pocket after takeoff and stowing them in approved locations prior to landing. Crewmembers may still direct a passenger to stow carry-on items in an approved stowage location, during flight should they pose a hazard, such as in the case of turbulence.


----------

