# Location numbers: Your thoughts?



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

This topic was inspired by the Children's Book thread.

What do you think of location numbers on the Kindle vs. page numbers in a regular book?

Personally, I'm not a fan of location numbers and don't think they're necessary.

Page numbers *can* work IMO.

"But what about the different font sizes?"

So what? It would be much easier and more intuitive to say "Page 3 using Font 3" than "Location 300-390" or whatever it would be.

Regular page numbers could be used for identifying specific lines too. For example, if there are 10 lines per page (there may be more or less depending on the font), they could be numbered 3.1 through 3.10. MUCH easier than Location 300-390.

I'd much prefer this system over Amazon's puzzling location numbers. The only advantage I see to location numbers is that they're standardized across all six fonts, which my system wouldn't allow. But regular page numbers are so much easier for a reader to understand, connect to, and relay to others.

If anything, I don't see why Amazon can't use both systems side by side (Page 3, Location 300-390).

Your thoughts?


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I prefer page numbers. I  am still hoping that textbooks are going to start being kindlized and most assignments go by page number.


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## Lotus (Oct 31, 2008)

I don't really get the location numbers. They don't make sense to me. 

A couple of times, I put my kindle (in its cover) in my purse without putting it to sleep, and ended up completely losing my place in the book. Of course, I couldn't find the location, and had to go back and skim up to where I'd reached in the book. The location numbers are fairly long, and hard to remember, too. I tend to occasionally bookmark (dog ear) my books in the Kindle so I don't get lost again.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

Page numbers are also much easier to remember.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Doesn't make any difference to me.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

My guess is that the processor load of repaginating with every font size change is just too much for the current 300 MHz Kindle processor. On my 2 GHz computer with 2 GB of RAM it takes nearly a minute to repaginate a 500 page document in Word.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

The only thing I would like to see is the last location number.  Location 1-6 of 1240, e.g.


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## Marci (Nov 13, 2008)

gertiekindle said:


> The only thing I would like to see is the last location number. Location 1-6 of 1240, e.g.


That ^ would be huge improvement, I think.

I agree with Jeff, especially when you multiply all your books x 6 fonts = way to much for a small processor to handle. As much as I like page numbers, this is currently the price you pay  for using the Kindle.

Textbooks are usually twice as big for number of pages and very photo &/or illustration-intensive so I don't see it improving in that market either. At least not for the near future.

Marci


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

Vegas_Asian said:



> Page numbers are also much easier to remember.


I don't understand this. Unless is has more digits, one number is as easy to remember as another number.

Also, why would you need to remember a location number anyway?


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I don't understand this. Unless is has more digits, one number is as easy to remember as another number.
> 
> Also, why would you need to remember a location number anyway?


You mean to tell me that Location 1300-1390 is just as easy to remember as Page 130?


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## thejackylking #884 (Dec 3, 2008)

excpet for citing pages in a paper most people don't reference page numbers in a book while talking about it anyway.  It's usually more along the lines of "have you gotten to that one part where...".  Easy enough to say it's about halfway through the book look at the dots and use one of the many tricks available to get to an approximate page to look something up.


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

CS said:


> You mean to tell me that Location 1300-1390 is just as easy to remember as Page 130?


For me, the number 1300 is as easy to remember as the number 130.

And I refer again to my second point. *shrug*


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

thejackylking said:


> excpet for citing pages in a paper most people don't reference page numbers in a book while talking about it anyway. It's usually more along the lines of "have you gotten to that one part where...". Easy enough to say it's about halfway through the book look at the dots and use one of the many tricks available to get to an approximate page to look something up.


Exactly. I frequently look up specific passages in books because I want to quote them online. I can almost always remember within a few pages of where the citation I want is. I don't remember it by page number--I remember about how far through the book it is and what came before or after it. I remember the _scene_. Or the chapter. I open the book to around where I know it is and then leaf around a little to find the particular quote. No numbers involved.

Given the nature of the medium, I am sure this will be more difficult to do on a Kindle. But various ways of numbering pages won't make it easier.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff has an excellent point about processor power needed to re-paginate.

Gertie, if you go to the 'page length' bar at the bottom of a page and click the scroll bar it will say something like "Location 1 - xxxx".  XXXX is the end of the book.

The location numbers don't bother me; I like that the dots move over to give me an idea of how far in I am.  In my mind's eye I'm envisioning a book with a marker.  I use the number of dots shown on the home page as a guide for how thick the mind's eye book is.  I guess I've adapted; and I rarely have a reason to reference a page number.

Oh, and I have made myself get in the habit of putting it to sleep anytime I'm not actively reading so buttons don't get pressed accidentally.

Ann


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

Since the location numbers are so small and virtually meaningless to me I never even look at them.

If I loose my place and i do occasionally, I just go to the table of contents, pick the last chapter I was in and scan forward from there or if I have to, skim back until I find it.  

It's no big deal to me and no more annoying than if I had dropped a DTB and lost my place.

I can see how page number system may seem easier.  Many of you will be in book clubs soon and some one may say what do you think of what happened at location 1220-50?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I started to start a topic on this a couple of days ago after reading a complaint about locations, but I got distracted, LOL!

Sorry, I don't get the dislike of the location numbers. It's all relative. If you have a 500 page book, and you're at page 125, you know you're about a fifth of the way through. If I'm at a book with 5600 locations, like _1st to Die_ that I'm reading, and I'm at location 1100, i'm about a fifth of the way through. Unless it's a book with an excerpt from the author's next book at the back.

However, I typically would my bookmark in, look at the book from the side and say, hmmm, that looks like I'm about a third of the way through.... And the dots do that for me.

But then, I also seldom look up specific passages or cite them to other people. Maybe it would make more of a difference to me if I did.

The time I was most likely to use page numbers was when having to close a book with no bookmark available. Don't have to do that anymore, Eleanor the K remembers them for me, LOL! Just my 2 cents!

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Vampyre said:


> I can see how page number system may seem easier. Many of you will be in book clubs soon and some one may say what do you think of what happened at location 1220-50?


Page numbers only work in book clubs if everyone has the same edition of the book....some could have hardcover, some paperback, some mass market trade version, some large text version....

Betsy


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

If the developers had called them "pages" instead of locations, would that solve the problem?

I can't figure out if people object to the word (location) or the fact that the numbers tend to be bigger -- ie, most Kindle books tend to have locations in the thousands while most paper books have pages in the hundreds.

Either way, the locations don't bother me at all. I use them alot. Whenever I start a book, I check out the total number of locations it has, which gives me an estimate of its length. Then, like others have said, I tend to think, "I'm a quarter of the way through," halfway, etc.

Works for me.

L


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

Lotus said:


> I tend to occasionally bookmark (dog ear) my books in the Kindle so I don't get lost again.


I haven't started doing this yet, but need to before I show off my Kindle. I always get it back on some wierd place.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

mom133d said:


> I haven't started doing this yet, but need to before I show off my Kindle. I always get it back on some wierd place.


It's supposed to go back to where you were when you left the book. However, when I was first using it, I frequently hit the next page or prev page when I was getting ready to turn it off. That's the only time it went back to a weird place.

I'd test going in and out of a book a few times, if yours doesn't go back to the last place you were in the book, there is someting wrong...

Betsy


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

The only time I have ever totally lost my place on my Kindle is after having to do a hard reboot after a random lock up.


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## mwb (Dec 5, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I don't understand this. Unless is has more digits, one number is as easy to remember as another number.
> 
> Also, why would you need to remember a location number anyway?


Bingo. I think if Amazon called them "Kindle Pages" instead of Locations - we wouldn't even be having this discussion. People get way too hung up on the new word.

With DT you technically have to specify publisher, year, editions, etc. for the page number to have any meaning whatsoever.

----------------
Listening to: Françoise Hardy - Star
via FoxyTunes


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

In case anybody really cares, the Kindle “locations” are based upon your relative position within the digital file in bytes. Ann did the math in another thread. I personally have no problem with the system at all, but I’m a bit of a propeller-head when it comes to numbers.

EDIT: Now if I could just learn to type.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm another that truly doesn't understand what the problem is. IMO, locations are _better_ than page numbers because they could be standardized across platforms. So if I had my Kindle and my friend had a Sony, we could both talk about location 3820 or whatever. I also agree with the PPs who think if amazon had called them pages there wouldn't be such a hullaballoo.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

marianner said:


> I'm another that truly doesn't understand what the problem is. IMO, locations are _better_ than page numbers because they could be standardized across platforms. So if I had my Kindle and my friend had a Sony, we could both talk about location 3820 or whatever. I also agree with the PPs who think if amazon had called them pages there wouldn't be such a hullaballoo.


They are more precise than page numbers, too. With a location, you can drill down to a couple of lines; with a page number, the person has to read the whole page, unless you specify which paragraph and which line.

L


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## thejackylking #884 (Dec 3, 2008)

Still haven't recieved mine yet however I don't see the problem either.  It's just an arbitrary reference to a place in the book.  Never was much for page numbers myself either.  Page numbers are only good for 2 things citing a reference or bragging about how fast you read.  "I read a x page book in x number of days."


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

Now you have two options,

I read a 12,769 loc book in x days or

I read a 667 MB book in x days.

Yep. I can read up to 250 MBs a day if I want to.


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

I change the font size between 3 and 4 all the time and i like that the location numbers never change. It would be confusing to me if everytime i changed the font the page numbers would be different.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

So let me get this right. Are location numbers always the same. Say there is a book club. If everyone has the same book and I say go to location 2236, will everyone be at the same place, no matter how they have their Kindle set up?

Steve


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

stevene9 said:


> So let me get this right. Are location numbers always the same. Say there is a book club. If everyone has the same book and I say go to location 2236, will everyone be at the same place, no matter how they have their Kindle set up?
> 
> Steve


That is correct.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Yep, you can test this.

Open a book, set it to the smallest font size.  Click on "Menu", "Go to location..." and enter a number, say 500.  Click "Go"
Note the text at the top of the page.

Click on "Menu", "Go to Beginning".

Change to the largest font size.

Click on "Menu", "Go to Location..." and enter the same number again.  Click "Go"
The text at the top of the page will be exactly the same.  Just less of it.  

Betsy


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## Essensia (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm fine with locations.  When you think about it, page numbers in regular books will vary depending on the edition (hardcover, paperback, large print), so they're not all that precise or relevant anyway.  For page numbers to mean anything, everyone must use the same edition of the book.  Ditto for locations when there are different versions of the same Kindle book.  Locations, page numbers, whatever...they're all just ways of telling how far along you are.

When I read the first few books on my Kindle, I checked Amazon for the number of pages in the corresponding regular book so I could get an idea of how the location numbers corresponded to the length of the books.

Now I think more in terms of locations.  For example, if a book hasn't hooked me by location 1500, I usually give up on it.  

Then again, I'm a geek.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> For me, the number 1300 is as easy to remember as the number 130.


Me, also. I just don't get why people have problems with location numbers. It's a total non-issue.

But then, I don't get why people start screaming hysterically when the subject of switching to the metric system is broached, either.

Mike


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

It's just like everything else.  People get used to one convention and it's often hard for them to adapt.  Just like standard measure vrs metric.  Some people just adapt slower than others.


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

I am old, hopefully I can just exit this plane and enter heaven before I have to learn metric.


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> It's supposed to go back to where you were when you left the book. However, when I was first using it, I frequently hit the next page or prev page when I was getting ready to turn it off. That's the only time it went back to a weird place.
> 
> I'd test going in and out of a book a few times, if yours doesn't go back to the last place you were in the book, there is someting wrong...
> 
> Betsy


If I'm the only person touching it, it does. Its when someone comes up and I start to show it off and they start hitting the next/previous page buttons and then hand it back that I'm lost. So before I hand it over to show off, I need to dog ear my place.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

mom133d said:


> If I'm the only person touching it, it does. Its when someone comes up and I start to show it off and they start hitting the next/previous page buttons and then hand it back that I'm lost. So before I hand it over to show off, I need to dog ear my place.


Aaaah, got it! (Yes, always show a book you haven't read yet! Or dogear, as you say!)

Betsy


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## Erich (Dec 26, 2008)

jmiked said:


> Me, also. I just don't get why people have problems with location numbers. It's a total non-issue.
> 
> But then, I don't get why people start screaming hysterically when the subject of switching to the metric system is broached, either.
> 
> Mike


Location numbers are just confusing to me. I assume, though, that I will learn to love them and use them fine.

People start screaming hysterically about switching to metric because they can't handle stopping and thinking for five seconds about the conversion. Metric is used everywhere except Myanmar, Liberia, and the US. People use metric everywhere without thinking about it, so why not integrate it more into preschool and elementary school?

Erich


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Metric: I think we should just switch. When I go to Europe (I usually have an annual trip) I'm used to metric within 24 hours. Distances, temperature, everything, it all makes sense. I think the problem is when people think they need to convert back to the system they are "used" to. For example, if I go outside and the temperature is 15 and I need to wear a jacket, I say, okay, that's what 15 feels like. If it is 22 and I feel hot with a sweater, I know what that feels like. I don't convert to fahrenheit temperatures to "know" what it is. I just accept the number. Of course, being in healthcare, I've used metric forever so that is probably part of it for me.

To keep this on track, I guess I would make the same analogy: page numbers in a book are fahrenheit and miles; locations are metric. Don't try to make the conversion from one to the other, just accept the new measurement system and figure out how to make it work for you. I like locations because, as others have said, they don't vary depending on the font and they are more precise than page numbers.

L


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Erich said:


> Location numbers are just confusing to me. I assume, though, that I will learn to love them and use them fine.
> 
> People start screaming hysterically about switching to metric because they can't handle stopping and thinking for five seconds about the conversion. Metric is used everywhere except Myanmar, Liberia, and the US. People use metric everywhere without thinking about it, so why not integrate it more into preschool and elementary school?
> 
> Erich


What about the UK? They still measure distance in miles (I thought. Haven't been there in a few years).

L


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## Erich (Dec 26, 2008)

Leslie said:


> What about the UK? They still measure distance in miles (I thought. Haven't been there in a few years).
> 
> L


The UK has officially adopted the metric system, but, according to Wikipedia... "Although the UK has officially adopted the metric system, there is no intention to replace the mile on road signs in the near future, owing to the British public's attachment to traditional imperial units of distance, i.e., miles, yards and inches, and the cost of changing speed signs (which could not be replaced during general maintenance, like distance signs, for safety reasons)."

So I guess they will still use miles.

Erich


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## jah (Oct 28, 2008)

When I first got Faith, Location Numbers confuse me, after a couple of weeks I became more use to using the location numbers, does not bother me now.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

My only problem with the location is if I read 50 pages in a book and it has not grabbed me, out it goes.  So guess I need to figure out where 50 pages would be (1500?), but so far all the books I have read on the kindle have grabbed me.  Didn't take any time at all to get adjusted to the location, have not noticed in changing fonts, which I have not had to do yet, but glad to know location does not change.

Living in Mexico with Canadians and US folks and expats from all over the world we have to think metric as well as that hardheaded US system.  Really gets confusing sometimes.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, I never really paid any attention to the loc numbers until we started taling about them and now I understand them better. I like them.

Cookies and Milk for everyone!


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

Yum,  thank you.  I like your style.    I also like locations #'s.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

I've always measured the distance into a book by linear feet. It's tough to get used to the new-fangled measurements.

Mike


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## erinys (Dec 27, 2008)

I don't mind location numbers.  It can sometimes make problems if I'm discussing a particular book with people who own other versions, but there are other ways to figure out what they are referring to.  And there are other ways for me to lead people to the appropriate place in their book.  I mostly use location numbers to determine how far I am into the book.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

jmiked said:


> I've always measured the distance into a book by linear feet. It's tough to get used to the new-fangled measurements.


8 pounds = 500 pages on 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 medium weight paper.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...

Mike, Mike, Mike...



Betsy
(giggling)


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...
> 
> Mike, Mike, Mike...
> 
> ...


Whew. Thought it was a yellow card!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Nah, not my board, just laughing at you wild and crazy guys...  We've got a lot of new people, what will they think?

Betsy
still giggling


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Jeff said:


> 8 pounds = 500 pages on 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 medium weight paper.


You are forgetting the most important question...

"How fast can an unladen swallow fly?"


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> We've got a lot of new people, what will they think?


Hmm. Well, they may be a little confused by locations and pages but linear feet and pounds should completely baffle 'em.


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## ScottBooks (Oct 28, 2008)

Maybe if the location numbers were base 12?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

LOL!  I use base 16 for my age....I'm only 35.

Betsy
(math major)


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## Lotus (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm not math challenged (and am fully conversant with both metric and imperial measurements), but I still find 3651-55 harder to relate to than 365. Maybe I need to go back to the manual to see if re-reading that section will help it make better sense to me. I tend to use the dots, and I think I'll continue to dogear the pages.

The U.K. is mostly metric, but last I was there, you'd still express your weight in stone (= 14lbs) and your height in feet and inches in common conversation. However, at school, you'd use kilos and centimeters. So, I'd weigh 7 1/2 stone, 47kg or 105 lbs., depending on whom I'm talking to. It all gets a little odd when you're buying gas in litres and traveling in miles.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Fortunately, most people are such rotten judges of distances and speed that it doesn’t make any difference if you specify in kilometers/miles or meters/feet and don't tell them which.

Weight and temperature are a different matter, however.

Mike


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

ScottBooks said:


> Maybe if the location numbers were base 12?


Hey, Little Twelvetoes....






Old joke: There are 10 kinds of people in the world--those who understand binary and those who dont.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

I'm not math challenged (and am fully conversant with both metric and imperial measurements), but I still find 3651-55 harder to relate to than 365. Maybe I need to go back to the manual to see if re-reading that section will help it make better sense to me. I tend to use the dots, and I think I'll continue to dogear the pages.

Once I realized a number like 3651-55 means locations 3651,3652, 3653, 3654 and 3655, it made so much more sense to me.

For some reason my mind was trying to make the loc numbers into a grid like 3651x55 and i was really confused. Now that I understand it better, I have no problems with it.

Now back to the unlaen swallow...


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## katiekat1066 (Nov 19, 2008)

But is it an African or European swallow??  

Katiekat


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Vampyre said:


> Cookies and Milk for everyone!


are they gluten free? I like your style too! best breakfast ever, unless it is cold pizza (gluten free of course)


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

I don't know. It reminds me of the Red Headed Woodpecker you see here in GA.


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## Khabita (Oct 28, 2008)

Ha ha. I had a sucky Christmas, and I really needed a laugh today, and I came over here and I'm still laughing about the linear feet and the unladen swallow! Thanks for the chuckles!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Khabita, sorry about your Christmas, but Kboards is always good for a laugh!  My husband keeps asking me what I'm giggling about!  Glad you can hang out with us!

Betsy


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)




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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Whoa!  now that's laden!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> 8 pounds = 500 pages on 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 medium weight paper.


If a = b and b = c, then a = c.

If 500 pages on 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 medium weight paper = 8 pounds

and

a gallon of water = 8 pounds, then

500 pages on 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 medium weight paper = a gallon of water.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

gertiekindle said:


> If a = b and b = c, then a = c.
> 
> If 500 pages on 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 medium weight paper = 8 pounds
> 
> ...


And yet the pages float. Therefore, they are a witch. And what do we do with witches?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> And yet the pages float. Therefore, they are a witch. And what do we do with witches?


Turn them into a Book Club?


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Burn the books, buy a Kindle!


Bacardi Jim said:


> And yet the pages float. Therefore, they are a witch. And what do we do with witches?


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Vampyre said:


> Burn the books, buy a Kindle!


It's "Start the Kindling, burn the Books." If you're going to quote me, get it right.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

To those new members who tuned in expecting a discussion of location numbers, sometimes the inmates take over the asylum.



Betsy


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)




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## BMW (Oct 30, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> LOL! I use base 16 for my age....I'm only 35.
> 
> Betsy
> (math major)


 Too funny, I went Alpha at 29, so I turned 29Q in June. 

Beth
(also a Math Major)


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> It's "Start the Kindling, burn the Books." If you're going to quote me, get it right.


It wasn't a quote. Did you see " " anywhere? It was a paraphrase at best.(is that a word?)(guess so spellicker liked it)


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Vampyre said:


> It wasn't a quote. Did you see " " anywhere? It was a paraphrase at best.(is that a word?)(guess so spellicker liked it)


It's a book club.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> It's a book club.


Is "It's a book club" the answer if it isn't Hugh Jackman or Hibbing?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)




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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

... and our topic today is "Location numbers: Your thoughts?"

/ Harv valiantly attempts to put this thread back on its rails


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think, especially with all the new Kindle owners coming on board, this is a good topic as people don't seem to understand locations.

Betsy


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Harvey said:


> ... and our topic today is "Location numbers: Your thoughts?"
> 
> / Harv valiantly attempts to put this thread back on its rails


I think it has a good beat and you can dance to it.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I think it has a good beat and you can dance to it.


You just want a year's supply of Stridex Medicated Pads.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> You just want a year's supply of Stridex Medicated Pads.


You recognized that? I'm impressed.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2008)

Jeff said:


> You recognized that? Im impressed.


Oh, I'm impressive, Jerry.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

This thread seems to have lost something, like coherence.

Steve


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Harvey said:


> ... and our topic today is "Location numbers: Your thoughts?"


Location numbers, huh.

Well, Harvey, Amazon lists the number of pages in the paperback versions of a book, and location numbers on the Kindle represent a percentage of progress, therefore we could derive a formula for calculating the page number from the location.

Could you build us a script for that please?

EDIT: Back on thread.


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## Lizzy (Nov 26, 2008)

BMW said:


> Too funny, I went Alpha at 29, so I turned 29Q in June.
> 
> Beth
> (also a Math Major)


The only math i ever majored in was eeny meeny miney moe.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2008)

It's all about location, location, location.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2008)

Vampyre said:


> It's all about location, location, location.


With prices this low, you must be CRAAAAZY!


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> With prices this low, you must be CRAAAAZY!


(you'd be surprised how many people say that about me)

Yes, crazy like a FOX!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Not my board, but c'mon guys, cool it.  This was actually a useful thread at one point....

Betsy


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## BMW (Oct 30, 2008)

Okay, back on topic, but since it is an important thread, maybe we can weed out the funny stuff (I'm guilty!)... just a thought  . Anyway, I don't normally pay attention to my page in a DTB and don't normally pay attention to a location number. However, my daughter, a college student, needs to have page numbers to reference for reports/homework to turn in and the teachers will not accept Kindle location numbers for reference. Since she hopes to be able to replace about half her backpack load, this is important to her. So, if anyone can do create an algorithm that will work with all possible fonts, noting the # of blank beginning pages, etc.,  I can see it being very useful. I can also see bookclub members using it for when some have Kindles and some have DTBs. There will be lots of variables depending upon the book, but I can see it working with the correct data.
Beth


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

That's a good point, for citations...does the teacher ask which edition the books is when citing a page number?  It's been so long since I had to cite a source...

Eventually perhaps Kindle editions will be widespread enough that one can indicate "Kindle edition" and the locations.  

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

When I was in college, the literature courses I took usually specified a specific edition of a book to buy.  You could read from something else, but it was your responsibility to be able to translate from the specified edition.  You could quote in a paper from any edition, as long as you fully identified it.

Ann


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

The style manuals I am most familiar with, APA (American Psychological Association) and AMA (American Medical Association) only require page numbers for books when there is a direct quote. The workaround is to paraphrase the information, not quote it directly, which, as an editor, I prefer.

Page numbers for journal articles are a different issue but since there aren't any professional journals on the Kindle, yet, this is a moot point.

I understand that some teachers want students to include page numbers, even thought the style manual doesn't require them. 

The "gold standard" in referencing is to cite the most accessible source. This is generally understood to be the print version, so even if you read a book or article online, the proper reference would be to the print version. Since you can find many books online, it may be reasonable to find the page numbers without having to make a trip to the library.

There are sources that are available only online and in that case, it would be appropriate to reference the online version.

There is one document that is available *only* in a Kindle version. It has not been published anywhere else. Anyone know? Mitch Albom's commencement address. It would be interesting for a student to work that into a paper and then cite the Kindle version, as that would be the only extant version and thus the gold standard.

L


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

The location number is a relationship between the current reading position and the digital file size and thus more accurate than stating a page number in a hardcopy (which will vary in page count by edition).


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Leslie said:


> The "gold standard" in referencing is to cite the most accessible source. This is generally understood to be the print version, so even if you read a book or article online, the proper reference would be to the print version. Since you can find many books online, it may be reasonable to find the page numbers without having to make a trip to the library.
> 
> There are sources that are available only online and in that case, it would be appropriate to reference the online version.
> 
> ...


Interesting!!!

Betsy


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Jeff said:


> The location number is a relationship between the current reading position and the digital file size and thus more accurate than stating a page number in a hardcopy (which will vary in page count by edition).


I agree!


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

My sister is visiting for the holidays and she says that if a book has, say, 5000 "next page" hits to get from the beginning to the end of the book (depending upon the font size setting, of course), then 2195-32 means you've hit "next turn" 2195 times out of 5000, and the current page has 32 lines (if the cursor thing to the right is set at the bottom). 
I don't think she's right, esp since I just looked at my current book location and it's 696-98 (I'll explain).
A) In her example, it seems hard to believe that in the several books I've read, I've had to hit next turn thousands of times to get through the whole book, but I s'pose it's possible.
B) In my current book, there aren't 98 lines on my current page, there are only 10 lines of text.

I have only read the last few pages and they were off topic, and I really don't want to go through seven pages to see _if_ a definitive answer has been posted (in language I understand  ), so simply put, what do those numbers represent? ...Thanks!



BMW said:


> Too funny, I went Alpha at 29, so I turned 29Q in June.
> 
> Beth
> (also a Math Major)


*Gasp* You do that too?!? I've been doing that for 11 years, since I was 29F, and I've always used 29 as my start point, too! I turned 29Q this year, too.


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## libro (Dec 3, 2008)

I definitely prefer page numbers.  

Does anyone think the next version of Kindle will have page numbers?  Will owners of the original Kindle be able to get a software upgrade if that improvement is made?


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

libro said:


> I definitely prefer page numbers.
> 
> Does anyone think the next version of Kindle will have page numbers? Will owners of the original Kindle be able to get a software upgrade if that improvement is made?


I don't think so because the concept of "page" is irrelevant in the Kindle. Just substitute the word "page" for "location" and you should be good, if you prefer "page numbers." The kindle does have numbers and as others have said, they are more meaningful and precise than pages in a book.

L


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

> My sister is visiting for the holidays and she says that if a book has, say, 5000 "next page" hits to get from the beginning to the end of the book (depending upon the font size setting, of course), then 2195-32 means you've hit "next turn" 2195 times out of 5000, and the current page has 32 lines (if the cursor thing to the right is set at the bottom).
> I don't think she's right, esp since I just looked at my current book location and it's 696-98 (I'll explain).
> A) In her example, it seems hard to believe that in the several books I've read, I've had to hit next turn thousands of times to get through the whole book, but I s'pose it's possible.
> B) In my current book, there aren't 98 lines on my current page, there are only 10 lines of text.


You can have multiple locations on a screen, depending on the size of the font. I find that at font size 4 (my most frequently used), there are 5 locations per screen, more or less. So, a book with 5000 locations would require 1000 next page turns, roughly.

L


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Cat said:


> My sister is visiting for the holidays and she says that if a book has, say, 5000 "next page" hits to get from the beginning to the end of the book (depending upon the font size setting, of course), then 2195-32 means you've hit "next turn" 2195 times out of 5000, and the current page has 32 lines (if the cursor thing to the right is set at the bottom).
> I don't think she's right, esp since I just looked at my current book location and it's 696-98 (I'll explain).


The book I've just opened has locations 8-9 on the first page, so clearly your sister's theory isn't correct. There was some good info earlier in the thread, I'll see if I can find it and quote it.

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Cat,

To summarize some of the more useful info from early in the thread:

Jeff wrote that Ann had done the math somewhere in KBoards and that location number correlated to where one was in digital file.  

MWB stated if they were called "Kindle pages" instead of locations, people wouldn't have so much problem.

As for the accuracy, you can test this yourself:

Open a book, set it to the smallest font size.  Click on "Menu", "Go to location..." and enter a number, say 500.  Click "Go"
Note the text at the top of the page.

Click on "Menu", "Go to Beginning".

Change to the largest font size.

Click on "Menu", "Go to Location..." and enter the same number again.  Click "Go"
The text at the top of the page will be exactly the same.  Just less of it on the page.  

Betsy


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## Lilly (Dec 14, 2008)

Jeff said:


> My guess is that the processor load of repaginating with every font size change is just too much for the current 300 MHz Kindle processor. On my 2 GHz computer with 2 GB of RAM it takes nearly a minute to repaginate a 500 page document in Word.


That can't be it because Sony uses page numbers; which is so much better then location number. Their new PRS-700 also have 6 font size and they still use page numbers so you can keep track of your location. Example a book in small font might have 275 pages, so it display 1 of 275; medium font for the same book 380 pages, so 1 of 380 if you're on the 1st page; large font 581 pages. This was an example of a real Harlequin Present book on my PRS-505 that I kept changing the font size. Also Kindle need to add a History page, it helps a lot. Several times I've accidentally lost my page in a book I was reading and was unable to find my page, but if I was on the Sony, all you do is go to the book menu that you're reading and click History, it will list the last 100 page turn of that particular book (maximum is 100 so if you're reading a 300 page book and your on page 250, then page 150 to 250 will be listed). Also the great thing about page numbers, you call type 250 and press enter to get to page 250 of the book.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Here's a post from Mike that does the math:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,178.msg1546.html#msg1546


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## SusanCassidy (Nov 9, 2008)

It is my understanding that Sony's "page numbers" have nothing to do with physical pages in a print edition.  Just because they call theirs "page numbers" and Amazon calls it "locations" does not make the concept really different.  The locations on Kindle don't change, so that no matter what the font size, you have the same location within the book.  That's better than changing "page" depending on the font size.  The only thing they do is say "x of y" instead of just "x", as Kindle does.  However, Kindle has the dots at the bottom of the screen which shows your progress.

As for the History, I suppose that is nice, but I've had my Kindle a long time, and never really lost my place.  You can set bookmarks if you think you are going to jump around within the book, which I almost never do.  On Kindle, you can open the menu, type in 250 and go to location 250, if you want.  It is the "Go to Location" menu option.


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## ScottBooks (Oct 28, 2008)

Lilly,

  So you would prefer to have to keep track of what font you were reading a book in and the page number? If you typed "250" in font size 4 it would bring you to a very different place in the book than if you typed "250" in font size 1 right? Am I misunderstanding something? What if you switch font sizes throughout the book (as most people do, adapting to lighting conditions and/or outside distractions)?

  How do you lose your page in a book? Do you share your Kindle with others? 

  I quickly got used to having 3000 locations instead of 500 pages (Examples Only! No actual correlation!) in my books.

Scott


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

ScottBooks said:


> So you would prefer to have to keep track of what font you were reading a book in and the page number? If you typed "250" in font size 4 it would bring you to a very different place in the book than if you typed "250" in font size 1 right? Am I misunderstanding something?


On the Kindle, typing in location "250" in font 2 and in font 4 will take you to the exact same place in the text. That's the point.

If the Kindle were displaying discrete pages and numbering them as would happen in a printed book, entering "250" in different font sizes would take you to entirely different places in the text.

Mike

EDIT: Never mind, I thought you were arguing in favor of page numbers instead of the opposite.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I think there are certain things people need to let go (or adapt to, or add on) of to fully appreciate the ebook experience. I have said earlier that I never looked up words in a dictionary while reading; I'd just sort of deduce the meaning and keep on. Now, I can look up very easily. I like that alot. In fact, I was reading the newspaper today and the writer used the word "cavil" and I was annoyed I couldn't look it up. That is a sign to me how much the Kindle has affected my reading. In that case, it is an "add on."

An example of "adapt to" would be how to hold the Kindle and how to advance the pages. For me, this was almost instantaneous but there is a segment of owners who need to figure out what works for them. Eventually they get it (or get rid of their Kindles).

I think "pages" is a concept where people need to let go, which would be analogous to changing from our current measurement system to metric. I think we discussed this in this thread, didn't we? Instead of trying to convert to the "new" and "old" measurement (ie, what is 15 deg C in F?), just create a context for understanding the new measurement. So, instead of saying, "how do locations relate to pages?" just get comfortable with locations. People here have given lots of examples of how to do that.

~~~

A similar experience I have had in real life is working with nurses to make the transition from paper medical records to electronic medical records. Many cling to the idea that they want the electronic chart to look exactly like the paper chart. In their insistence to do that, they often miss many of the good features of the EMR. They also hold back their own experience in moving forward with the EMR. Some nurses have quit or retired rather than use an EMR. Likewise, there will be people who will never be happy with a Kindle. 

L

Oh, btw, does anyone know what cavil means? I still haven't looked it up.


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## DeDe (Nov 23, 2008)

While I don't have my Kindle yet, I do like the idea of location numbers because as Mike said it will always be the same place no matter the font size and pages are different depending on the edition.

I saw someone below was saying they like page numbers because they can see how many pages they read.  I was having a discussion with my cousin this weekend and she said she read 1400 pages (or so) in the past day or two.  While this is alot of pages, the books she was reading were smaller books with larger print so the actual reading that was done couldn't really be compared to someone else by using pages because for someone with a large book and smaller font, they could have read much much more text in 1400 pages.

I think it's just a shift in thinking to go to location numbers from pages.  I find it similar to when I was learning a foreign language.  It was very awkward at first when you're trying to translate everything into English but as soon as you just saw something and thought the word in the foreign language it became easy.  

I'm on board with location numbers.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

cav·il  (kvl)
v. cav·iled also cav·illed, cav·il·ing also cav·il·ling, cav·ils also cav·ils
v.intr.
To find fault unnecessarily; raise trivial objections. See Synonyms at quibble.
v.tr.
To quibble about; detect petty flaws in.
n.
A carping or trivial objection.


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## Lilly (Dec 14, 2008)

ScottBooks said:


> Lilly,
> 
> So you would prefer to have to keep track of what font you were reading a book in and the page number? If you typed "250" in font size 4 it would bring you to a very different place in the book than if you typed "250" in font size 1 right? Am I misunderstanding something? What if you switch font sizes throughout the book (as most people do, adapting to lighting conditions and/or outside distractions)?
> 
> ...


I don't know about you but my font size never change from book to book. I read on #3 with the Kindle 100% of the time and Small with the PRS505 100% of the time. I like the page number concept because if I'm on page 150 of a 275 page book in small font then I know that I have Exactly 125 pages to get through to get at the end of the book. If a page takes me two minutes to read, I can tell almost to the minute how long it will take to read the remaining 125 pages. I like knowing how many pages I have left to read. It's something I'm used to with paperbooks and I like it. Since I don't share books and don't read with other people, it's my personal preference. I don't like the position thing with the Kindle and yes I prefer the reflow of page numbers per font. I love my kindle as much as I love my PRS-505, but having both, they each have their advantages and disadvantages. But since I'm one of the lucky few that owns both readers, I'm able to take advantage of both world. I mostly buy Amazon books and promptly make a Sony copy and read the book on my Sony 80% of the time. I just subscribed to USA Today and also have a subscription to Washington Post, something the Sony cant do, and read both of them on my Kindle. Like I said before, I like the History section in the book menu of the PRS505 and I think with the ease of accidentally pressing buttons on the Kindle, Amazon should consider implementing it. As you can see, at the top, I deliberately change the page number manually and when I go back to History, I can find my spot again if I did not bookmark the page.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

As long as it works for you, Lilly, cool!  I'm way too lazy to do all that just to have page numbers, LOL!  But you go, girl!

Betsy


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Leslie said:


> I think "pages" is a concept where people need to let go, which would be analogous to changing from our current measurement system to metric. I think we discussed this in this thread, didn't we? Instead of trying to convert to the "new" and "old" measurement (ie, what is 15 deg C in F?), just create a context for understanding the new measurement. So, instead of saying, "how do locations relate to pages?" just get comfortable with locations. People here have given lots of examples of how to do that.


I think Leslie and others have stated the usage and reasoning for locations quite well. The whole pages/locations thing is something you either are going to have to accept or ignore. I usually don't pay any attention to the location numbers. I don't usually read by pages... I read by chapters. I don't *lose* my place either (well, I did inadvertently page forward about 7 pages the other night when I fell asleep reading, but it wasn't all that hard to find where I was before ). The location numbers are insignificant to me on a normal basis. My indication of where I am or how much I have read shows up in my K-dots. I do see how for our Kindle book clubs that the location numbers will prove to be most useful and they make perfect sense to me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Wahoo, Angela, congratulations on 2500 posts!!!!!









Betsy


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Wahoo, Angela, congratulations on 2500 posts!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW... I didn't even notice!!! Thanks, Betsy!


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> The book I've just opened has locations 8-9 on the first page, so clearly your sister's theory isn't correct. There was some good info earlier in the thread, I'll see if I can find it and quote it.
> 
> Betsy


Did you open to the cover or the first chapter?


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