# Goodbye Scrivener



## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

Well it certainly took me long enough, but I finally reached the point where enough is enough. After years of waiting for the iOS release (destined to become vaporware) I have made the move to Ulysses. The final straw being Scrivener iOS's decision to use dropbox over iCloud.

As someone who writes whenever he has time, not being able to utilize iCloud between my MacBook, Ipad, and Iphone is an absolute deal breaker. Why create a program specifically for iOS without taking advantage of one of the key baked-in features?

At this point I am tired of excuses, tired of waiting, and just tired of wanting a program to be more than the developers themselves desire it to be. So thank you Scrivener for the last 4 years, but I think it's time we both moved on.


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## Marseille France or Bust (Sep 25, 2012)

I know the feeling. I only use Scrivener for packaging a paperback. You have to do it just so for it to work. A very complicated and complex program. I use Vellum for all ebooks and to actually write my books in.


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## Digiterium (Feb 28, 2016)

Can't you get Dropbox on all Apple devices though? and can't you save directly from Scrivener to Dropbox? I've got Scrivener I just haven't gotten around to using it yet, still using Word right now.


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## Luke Winters (Mar 29, 2016)

I've not tried Ulysses, but Scrivener backing up to Dropbox is a big plus for me. It doesn't look as if Ulysses offers any sort of external backup other than iCloud.

It is frustrating waiting for some sort of iPad or iPhone functionality though. At present, if I'm working on a device (and I have an iPhone and an Android tablet) then I just do the bits as notes and transfer them across. It's not as seamless as having it all in one place though, I grant you.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

Scrivener has announced that the iOS version (which is getting high praise from beta testers) will be available at the end of July. And since it's Keith doing the announcing...I actually believe them. 

(This is not to say you shouldn't try other things, and I'm right there with you on the iCloud thing. But the iOS version IS coming.)


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## M.D. Massey (Dec 3, 2013)

I love Ulysses and I am an enthusiastic convert to the software. I tried using Scrivener not once, not twice, but three (count 'em!) times. I would rather walk on salty glass shards than attempt to write a novel in Scrivener.

That being said, I wrote my last novel in record time in Ulysses. Once I tried it, the distraction-free interface and the simplicity of the software sold me right away. I like things that are simple and elegant, and it definitely fits the bill.

Now, if the folks at Vellum would just add an "export for CreateSpace" feature... then my collection of writing and book formatting tools would be complete.


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Removed due to site owner's change of TOS.


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

I've been using 



 for a few weeks now to sync my MacOS Scrivener project with my new iPad Pro. While it doesn't give you all the bells & whistles of the MacOS version, it does let you edit your Scrivener projects without any funky import/export contortions.

And it works with both iCloud and DropBox.


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## Scotty Weeks (Sep 26, 2013)

Does Ulysses have a similar feature to Scrivener's scrivenings view? I don't use that nearly as much as I used to (and I do a lot less outlining as well). Ulysses looks a lot slicker than it did when I looked at it last, a couple years ago. It would be nice to use one editor for both blog and fiction writing—currently I use Byword for my markdown blog posts. 

Also, is there an import for Scrivener files? How does Ulysses handle basic formatting? And, perhaps this is asking too much, when it exports to word, how does it handle character and paragraph styles? e.g. emphasis, block quotes, etc. . . . That sort of thing makes transfer of files to InDesign a lot less fiddly.


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## Michael W Griffith (Sep 6, 2014)

To each his own. I'd never argue that I know what would be better the better software solution for someone else, but I'm not sure I understand the complaint of the OP. I routinely save to iCloud, Box.com, and DropBox, as well as external hard drives. Yes, I'm that paranoid about losing my manuscript. Not sure why it matters which of the three "clouds" I'd use first.

To another comment, I've never understood the complaint about Scrivener's "complicated interface." To me, the ability to jam the interface full of every tool imaginable, or strip it down to a single page with a peaceful picture behind (my preferred writing set-up), Scrivener can be whatever you want it to be.


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## George Saoulidis (Feb 2, 2016)

Michael W Griffith said:


> To each his own. I'd never argue that I know what would be better the better software solution for someone else, but I'm not sure I understand the complaint of the OP. I routinely save to iCloud, Box.com, and DropBox, as well as external hard drives. Yes, I'm that paranoid about losing my manuscript. Not sure why it matters which of the three "clouds" I'd use first.
> 
> To another comment, I've never understood the complaint about Scrivener's "complicated interface." To me, the ability to jam the interface full of every tool imaginable, or strip it down to a single page with a peaceful picture behind (my preferred writing set-up), Scrivener can be whatever you want it to be.


He is an Apple user that wants things to work seamlessly and invisibly, in a world of chaotic and shifting technologies and software tools.

To the OP: "Writing" on an iPad. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Lol.


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## Sandy Raven (Jan 11, 2014)

Scrivener isn't perfect for everyone because everyone's process is different. BUT I've been writing since Word Perfect 5.1, and Scrivener, for me, is absolute perfection. I love it, and even at two years and almost six books with the software, I'm still discovering new features.

And as M.D. Massey said, if Vellum would come out with a format for Create Space, I'd never ever need anything else.


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## M.D. Massey (Dec 3, 2013)

Scotty Weeks said:


> Does Ulysses have a similar feature to Scrivener's scrivenings view? I don't use that nearly as much as I used to (and I do a lot less outlining as well). Ulysses looks a lot slicker than it did when I looked at it last, a couple years ago. It would be nice to use one editor for both blog and fiction writing-currently I use Byword for my markdown blog posts.
> 
> Also, is there an import for Scrivener files? How does Ulysses handle basic formatting? And, perhaps this is asking too much, when it exports to word, how does it handle character and paragraph styles? e.g. emphasis, block quotes, etc. . . . That sort of thing makes transfer of files to InDesign a lot less fiddly.


Ulysses is pretty much a stripped-down, bare-bones word processor. Everything related to formatting text is handled in mark-up, and you have to learn the mark-up language to be efficient in Ulysses. But for simply hammering out a few thousand words with no distractions, it is fantastic in my opinion. I particularly like that it handles large documents very well, unlike Google Docs or Word.

As far as exporting files goes, I've found that because of the minimal formatting, exported files are very clean and free of hidden garbage code. So, when you import them into another program, you pretty much can have a clean slate that requires very little tinkering to remove formatting idiosyncrasies.

But if you're looking for a bunch of author-specific features like Scrivener has, it's probably not the software for you. It really is a streamlined piece of software that I think mostly appeals to people who are minimalists at heart.

If you're thinking about using it, I suggest you read David Hewson's book. Once I flipped through it, I was able to get up and running with Ulysses in under an hour.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OHGAZTY/


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

Wow, look at all those responses. Guess this is a good issue to discuss.

In regards to the sync to dropbox for scrivener: Yes dropbox does allow you to sync docs this way but it is not natively built into the app/program. Years ago I used dropbox with Scrivener like this and lost 150k words because of a syncing error that corrupted my Scrivener file (luckily I had already exported this file as a pdf, so all was not lost).

The appeal of Ulyssess is that all of the syncing functionality is built in and utlizies iCloud which you already have access to with just an Apple ID. I do not like the idea of having to use multiple programs and multiple accounts to sync my documents. YMMV but that is just too many spots in the chain to have a bad link.

In regards to writing on the iPad I use a keyboard case that allows me to keep my typing speed up.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

George Saoulidis said:


> He is an Apple user that wants things to work seamlessly and invisibly, in a world of chaotic and shifting technologies and software tools.
> 
> To the OP: "Writing" on an iPad. Ha. Ha. Ha.
> Lol.


I know several people who do most or all of their writing, both nonfiction and fiction, on an iPad. Do you have questions?


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## JoshuaClanton (Apr 19, 2016)

Rickie Blair said:


> I use iCloud Drive with Scrivener, and switch back and forth between my laptop and desktop all the time.
> 
> Are you talking about the mythical iOS version of Scrivener? I gave up on that a long time ago and bought a laptop instead.
> 
> ...


The iOS version definitely isn't mythical. I've been beta testing it for the last couple of months, and it is awesome!


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

I can understand your frustrations.  I for one am using Windows so I didn't care about the iOS version.  And even then I don't do all my writing in Scrivener.  I tend to use yWriter for most of my work.  I originally bought it for the character name generator.  Sure there are a lot of them on the net, but I like having something on my machine that I know will be there when I need it.  Since then I tend to use Scrivener for blog posts and a few other bits of writing.  I also used it for storing a lot of research I did on my previous book.  While I could have done it with yWriter, Scrivener could save whole webpages easier.

I also don't understand the attraction of people wanting to write on a tablet.  I have one, and for quick notes and such it can't be beat.  But to really hammer out a novel?  No way.  If you have a keyboard, that will make a big different, but in that case why not use a full laptop?  A "writing" laptop could be very lightweight since you don't need a lot under the "hood" and work much better than a tablet with a keyboard.  Just my thoughts anyway.  To each their own.  Use what works for you.  In the end it is only you and the words, so use the tool that works best for you.  If hanging upside down like a bat writing on a pad of paper with a space pen works best for you, then by all means do it and don't worry about what others think.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

Don DeBon said:


> I also don't understand the attraction of people wanting to write on a tablet. I have one, and for quick notes and such it can't be beat. But to really hammer out a novel? No way. If you have a keyboard, that will make a big different, but in that case why not use a full laptop? A "writing" laptop could be very lightweight since you don't need a lot under the "hood" and work much better than a tablet with a keyboard. Just my thoughts anyway. To each their own. Use what works for you. In the end it is only you and the words, so use the tool that works best for you. If hanging upside down like a bat writing on a pad of paper with a space pen works best for you, then by all means do it and don't worry about what others think.


Completely agree, for the most part.

The big attraction for me is that I am quite mobile over the course of the day and get very nervous about carting my laptop with me everywhere I go. Sure it is lightweight enough but logistically it is not always easy for me to carry it.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2016)

I can travel light by using my Kindle Fire with a wireless keyboard.
The keyboard was about $30 and a word processing app was about $14


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

I definitely prefer to write on my laptop but I have access to mobile so much more often -- and being able to edit my actual Scrivener file via Mac or iOS without any fancy footwork (saving different versions to use in an iOS writing app, for instance) is a big win.


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## ribonucleic (Dec 15, 2014)

According to the tech podcasts I've heard, developers have disliked using iCloud for sync because it works poorly - especially for complicated forms of data like a Scrivener project - and then they get the blame for a bad experience. Purportedly, iCloud has been improved in this respect. But it will be a long time before any programmer considers it more reliable than Dropbox.

On the other hand, iCloud doesn't have a war criminal on its board of directors - so there's that.


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## kdiem (Feb 29, 2016)

M.D. Massey said:


> Ulysses is pretty much a stripped-down, bare-bones word processor. Everything related to formatting text is handled in mark-up, and you have to learn the mark-up language to be efficient in Ulysses...
> 
> As far as exporting files goes, I've found that because of the minimal formatting, exported files are very clean and free of hidden garbage code. So, when you import them into another program, you pretty much can have a clean slate that requires very little tinkering to remove formatting idiosyncrasies. ...


So can it export/compile to a pretty clean Word doc? Will it generate the TOC, etc?



Don DeBon said:


> ... I for one am using Windows so I didn't care about the iOS version. ...I tend to use yWriter for most of my work.


How's the export/compile on yWriter? How clean is the end doc? It looks like it supports auto TOC generation?



Don DeBon said:


> Use what works for you. In the end it is only you and the words, so use the tool that works best for you. If hanging upside down like a bat writing on a pad of paper with a space pen works best for you, then by all means do it and don't worry about what others think.


Unless the 'others' are your doctors and you've gotten too many concussions from writing that way, I concur. Then you need to add some pillows or something.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

I'd imagine they also choose Dropbox so as not to further mess over those of us with Windows desktops/laptops who might also want to work on our iOS devices.  

(of course, I'd also like them to fix Windows for Scrivener to actually be on par with all the goodies supposedly in the Mac version, but gave up on that happening)


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## Luke Winters (Mar 29, 2016)

harker.roland said:


> In regards to the sync to dropbox for scrivener: Yes dropbox does allow you to sync docs this way but it is not natively built into the app/program. Years ago I used dropbox with Scrivener like this and lost 150k words because of a syncing error that corrupted my Scrivener file (luckily I had already exported this file as a pdf, so all was not lost).


Are you sure? I have it set to back up to Dropbox when I manually save or exit - that's native enough for me.


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

kdiem said:


> So can it export/compile to a pretty clean Word doc? Will it generate the TOC, etc?
> 
> How's the export/compile on yWriter? How clean is the end doc? It looks like it supports auto TOC generation?


Very good. The "core" files are all RTF (which is the same as Scrivener by the way), and it exports the whole thing to one whole RTF document that can be opened into word. Or chapter by chapter if you prefer. It also has a proofing option that exports a RTF document with scene/chapter markup inserted so you can send the document into Word or OpenOffice to do heavy editing. Then reimport the RTF document and it will update all your changes into ywriter, keeping your scenes/chapters intact.

As for TOC, if you mean for ebooks yes it has a export to ebook (a html file). Then you take that HTML file and import to Calibre, convert to epub, then check it in a epub editor to make sure everything is as you intended. I also add additional metadata at this point.

If you mean in print, it can also do TOC and create a PDF for printing at createspace or lightning source. But not directly. yWriter has a export to LaTex option, creates a .tex text file with LaTex markup inserted and a PDF is created upon compile. LaTex is open source, but a heavy download at 1.2 gigs (at least for the distribution I used). And LaTex may make some people's eyes cross considering it is a markup language. But it is very powerful. For a basic book though, you don't need to do much in the way of additional markup/changes after exporting from yWriter. I did, but then I wanted to more than the basic layout (running heads, special title page, etc). Scrivener is probably easier with regard to PDF creation to send to a printer. I don't know, I haven't used that aspect of it.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Michael W Griffith said:


> To each his own. I'd never argue that I know what would be better the better software solution for someone else, but I'm not sure I understand the complaint of the OP. I routinely save to iCloud, Box.com, and DropBox, as well as external hard drives. Yes, I'm that paranoid about losing my manuscript. Not sure why it matters which of the three "clouds" I'd use first.
> 
> To another comment, I've never understood the complaint about Scrivener's "complicated interface." To me, the ability to jam the interface full of every tool imaginable, or strip it down to a single page with a peaceful picture behind (my preferred writing set-up), Scrivener can be whatever you want it to be.


Agreed. I don't have an iPad, but I know a lot of my writer buddies do, and they've been waiting with bated breath for so long for the Scrivener-for-iPad version that they're blue (metaphorically) in the face now.

But I'm not sure I understand what's wrong with Dropbox, and why it's bad that Scrivener uses Dropbox and not iCloud?

As for a distraction-free interface -- well, Scrivener has that. If you don't want to see the editor pane or whatever, just turn on Composition mode, voila a blank page with nothing surrounding it.

Anyway, good to know about Ulysses, I'll tell my waiting-with-bated-breath friends to check it out. 

DMac
w/a Victoria Hodge


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## MichealC (Apr 5, 2016)

I use exclusively linux and 1 Win10 machine. So does my editor and she doesn't like Scrivner because it lacks a robust track changes feature.  So we use Libreoffice and Word. Can't say I really mind. Before that most of my writing and edting was done in Writer and Jotterpad on an Android tab.


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## Don DeBon (Jun 18, 2016)

MichealC said:


> I use exclusively linux and 1 Win10 machine. So does my editor and she doesn't like Scrivner because it lacks a robust track changes feature. So we use Libreoffice and Word. Can't say I really mind. Before that most of my writing and edting was done in Writer and Jotterpad on an Android tab.


Well you can write it first in Scrivener, then export it to RTF etc then do the editing with Libreoffice. I use yWriter the same way, although yWriter has a "export for proofing" option that makes it easy to reimport the whole thing later without having to recreate the chapter/scene layout. Granted you could do the same thing with Scrivener tagging the scenes and chapters with say # signs. But it is one step less in my case.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

Don DeBon said:


> Well you can write it first in Scrivener, then export it to RTF etc then do the editing with Libreoffice. I use yWriter the same way, although yWriter has a "export for proofing" option that makes it easy to reimport the whole thing later without having to recreate the chapter/scene layout. Granted you could do the same thing with Scrivener tagging the scenes and chapters with say # signs. But it is one step less in my case.


Off the top of my head...if all of your chapters are named Chapter X, you can use Scrivener's "Import and Split..." at the word "Chapter." You might still have to break it down from there (if you have a lot of scenes per chapter. Or you can split at "#" or whatever.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2016)

Literature & Latte's latest blog post addresses why they offer DropBox syncing and not iCloud: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=713

Alas, the DropBox syncing sounds problematic for how I have my files organized (each project has a folder and the Scrivener files for it go under there along with all other stuff vs having a single Scrivener folder), but if I decide to get it, I can always go back to the "old" way.

Though with it being $19.99, I probably will pass for now.


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## Digiterium (Feb 28, 2016)

Anma Natsu said:


> Literature & Latte's latest blog post addresses why they offer DropBox syncing and not iCloud: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=713
> 
> Alas, the DropBox syncing sounds problematic for how I have my files organized (each project has a folder and the Scrivener files for it go under there along with all other stuff vs having a single Scrivener folder), but if I decide to get it, I can always go back to the "old" way.
> 
> Though with it being $19.99, I probably will pass for now.


You don't get the iOS version for free if you already have the desktop version?


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2016)

Digiterium said:


> You don't get the iOS version for free if you already have the desktop version?


Not that they have mentioned so far. I wouldn't expect it to be though. Kind of like how they won't give you the Mac version free if you already have the Windows (or visa versa); their licensing allows for multiple computer installs, but they are per OS , so it would make sense that the iOS would be licensed separately (though at least its half the cost)


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## Digiterium (Feb 28, 2016)

Anma Natsu said:


> Not that they have mentioned so far. I wouldn't expect it to be though. Kind of like how they won't give you the Mac version free if you already have the Windows (or visa versa); their licensing allows for multiple computer installs, but they are per OS , so it would make sense that the iOS would be licensed separately (though at least its half the cost)


I would of thought you should at least get a discount on the iOS version if you already have the Mac version.


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## Renard (Jun 21, 2016)

Digiterium said:


> I would of thought you should at least get a discount on the iOS version if you already have the Mac version.


Writing software is not a simple process. Writing Scrivener from the ground up for iOS has obviously been a huge job given how long it took. $20 is pretty darn cheap for something this flexible. We should all be happy it's not a $10/month subscription rate like so many other companies are implementing.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

MarkFeenstra said:


> Writing software is not a simple process. Writing Scrivener from the ground up for iOS has obviously been a huge job given how long it took. $20 is pretty darn cheap for something this flexible. We should all be happy it's not a $10/month subscription rate like so many other companies are implementing.


 Agreed. I'm buying it. And yeah, I hate the subscription model a lot of companies are now moving to.

I tried Ulysses when I was writing on the iPad, but I don't like the markup stuff. I like Scrivener so I stayed with it and now I have a MacBook Air which works great for writing with Scrivener. But I'm looking forward to having the iOS option.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Alan Petersen said:


> Agreed. I'm buying it. And yeah, I hate the subscription model a lot of companies are now moving to.
> 
> I tried Ulysses when I was writing on the iPad, but I don't like the markup stuff. I like Scrivener so I stayed with it and now I have a MacBook Air which works great for writing with Scrivener. But I'm looking forward to having the iOS option.


Same here I have Uysses on my Mac and phone. It works, but I prefer Scrivener. I tried Storyist too. Given how much I've already spent on writing software, $20 is better than to keep trying to find that right combo for mobile and desktop writing. I can't wait to try iOS scrivener.


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## Scotty Weeks (Sep 26, 2013)

I would buy Scrivener for iOS but I prefer not to.

*ducks*


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

Sorry if this is considered "high-jacking" the thread, but is there a PC alternative to Scrivener? I'd love to make some non-basic e-books (so far I have just been using Word) and print books, but I do not own a Mac (nor will I ever). Any suggestions? I've heard of PressBooks, but I would like to know if any of you have ever used them before I commit!


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

N. D. Iverson said:


> Sorry if this is considered "high-jacking" the thread, but is there a PC alternative to Scrivener? I'd love to make some non-basic e-books (so far I have just been using Word) and print books, but I do not own a Mac (nor will I ever). Any suggestions? I've heard of PressBooks, but I would like to know if any of you have ever used them before I commit!


There is Scrivener for PC, WriteWay Pro, The Novel Factory, yWriter. These are writing software. if you're looking for formatting, I heard d Jutoh can do both ebooks and print.


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## TheNovel Factory (Feb 17, 2016)

Anne. said:


> There is Scrivener for PC, WriteWay Pro, The Novel Factory, yWriter. These are writing software.cif you're looking for formatting, I heard d Jutoh can do both ebooks and print.


Hello! Kat from the Novel Factory here - just heard our name and thought we'd come and say hello and mention that our novel writing software has a free trial, so you can always try it out to see if it suits you before deciding whether to buy.

Alas, we're only on Windows at the moment, but an online version is in the pipeline - hopefully to be released before the end of this year. If anyone is interested in being notified about that, particularly if you'd like to be a beta tester, please email us at [email protected] so we can add you to the list.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm confused. I've used Scrivener on my PC and for over 5 years have had the Mac version. Mac is nothing new for Scrivener? Or when you say iOS are you referring to mobile? I'd be lost without it!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2016)

PamelaKelley said:


> I'm confused. I've used Scrivener on my PC and for over 5 years have had the Mac version. Mac is nothing new for Scrivener? Or when you say iOS are you referring to mobile? I'd be lost without it!


iOS refers to the upcoming mobile version


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

PamelaKelley said:


> I'm confused. I've used Scrivener on my PC and for over 5 years have had the Mac version. Mac is nothing new for Scrivener? Or when you say iOS are you referring to mobile? I'd be lost without it!


If you're asking about the iOS version for Scrivener... Literature & Latte is about to release the official iOS (iPad and iPhone) client with Scrivener, with actual syncing of your actual projects and everything. No more saving other versions to open in other editors, no more counter measures... actual Scrivener on iOS! I can't wait. Even though I prefer to write on my MacBook, I know which devices I have with me a lot more often...


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## BGArcher (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm a beta tester for iOS and I will simply say... $20.00 for the program is WORTH IT. The beta feels more rock solid and well thought out than many word processing programs i've used on iOS (or OS X for that matter). Drop box syncing has been great. I very much appreciate that they aren't using a sub model, and have a single price.
For me personally this isn't a hobby, writing is my job. I don't want it to be a quick flash in the pan either, I plan on building a long career. Spending $20.00 or even $40 or $50 (for the OS X) version, is a no brainer for me. But again, I treat this as a business, and am staring at a Scrivener doc for 8+ hours a day. Having a truly efficient mobile version (both on my phone and an iPad) just makes complete sense to me, but I get that's not true of all use cases.


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## dmsinclair (Apr 5, 2015)

I'm a PC guy (Macs are evil!) and I've been getting increasingly frustrated with the missing features in the Windows version of Scrivener. I'm snooping for alternatives that fit my workflow. 

I like to be able to write on my Android tablet and then sync my writing back to my main project. Scrivener folder sync (added in the latest update to the Windows version) was supposed to do this for me, but turned out to be a bust.

Has anyone tried "Novelize" (www.getnovelize.com)? The interface looks gorgeous, and the ability to access the entire project from anywhere (including my tablet) is very appealing to me. But can anyone speak to its reliability? The fact that it's online-only concerns me slightly, as there's always the chance they could go out of business suddenly and make all my cloud-stored stuff go away. 

Just wondering if anybody has tried it at all. Thanks!


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

dmsinclair said:


> ...I've been getting increasingly frustrated with the missing features in the Windows version of Scrivener. I'm snooping for alternatives that fit my workflow.


I'm the same way, it's frustrating to see the latest Windows version a year behind. There's just no excuse for it unless they are jut not interested in supporting Windows as robustly as macs. Based on how many writers use macs I can se why. I downloaded the Novel Factory's free trial and I liked it a lot. It has some features, like the ability to track your writing, that Scriv doesn't. I recomend the free trial for anyone whose interested. I can't afford to switch yet, but when I can I think I wil make a clean break.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

WestofCassy said:


> It has some features, like the ability to track your writing, that Scriv doesn't.


As the OP, obviously I have moved on from Scrivener, but this one caught my attention. Could you elaborate?

I used Scrivener for many years and between project targets, version snapshots, and system backups I can't think of what you mean here.


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## 91831 (Jul 18, 2016)

I specifically went for a Surface Pro 4 when I bought a tablet/mobile writing device as I use a PC desktop so that I could use Scrivener.  

Scriv has been a godsend for me, previously I was writing in Word but there was no way that I knew how to structure it if I wanted to write something further on, or had a scene for the end planned. Since I've been writing on Scriv, I've finally finished a novel, and I'm half way through my second. I've found organising on Scriv to be brilliant and I love the auto backup to Drop Box.


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## ribonucleic (Dec 15, 2014)

Anma Natsu said:


> Literature & Latte's latest blog post addresses why they offer DropBox syncing and not iCloud: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=713


It says: "... as much as we love iCloud, current limitations in and difficulties with iCloud mean that it is not at present best suited for the sort of complex, package-based file format used by Scrivener."

That's a polite way of saying "iCloud doesn't work".

They're doing you a favor.


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Removed due to site owner's change of TOS.


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## Wysardry (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm not sure why so many people seem are concerned that the Windows version of Scrivener is behind the Mac version when it was rewritten from the ground up, over four years after the Mac version was released.

There's a post in the Literature and Latte forums about the topic, here.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

ribonucleic said:


> It says: "... as much as we love iCloud, current limitations in and difficulties with iCloud mean that it is not at present best suited for the sort of complex, package-based file format used by Scrivener."
> 
> That's a polite way of saying "iCloud doesn't work".
> 
> They're doing you a favor.


I'm not sure I agree. Especially, when in reality, the reason why icloud will not work for Scrivener is because of the complicated structure of their save files.

I do not get angry with my toaster when an unusual slice of bread will not fit in it to be toasted.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

harker.roland said:


> I'm not sure I agree. Especially, when in reality, the reason why icloud will not work for Scrivener is because of the complicated structure of their save files.
> 
> I do not get angry with my toaster when an unusual slice of bread will not fit in it to be toasted.


 Just don't stick a metal fork in the toaster to make it work. 

I just happen to prefer Dropbox over iCloud, so I lucked out, I guess. I'm liking the Scrivener iOS! Finally, it all works seamlessly, no matter what I'm on.

You found an alternative for you that works (Ulysses), so it's all good.


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## SideShowAttraction (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm surprised that Amazon hasn't designed an online writing app that allows the writer to format the book for online publication.

Any online writing app that can match Amazon would be cool I guess.


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## Sebourn (Jun 18, 2016)

Just put Scrivener on my iPhone 6-- and holy cow, I think I like this.


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## WestofCassy (May 29, 2016)

harker.roland said:


> As the OP, obviously I have moved on from Scrivener, but this one caught my attention. Could you elaborate?
> 
> I used Scrivener for many years and between project targets, version snapshots, and system backups I can't think of what you mean here.


While there are some statistics you can get under the project section of Scriv, they're pretty basic, and on my computer can take 5-10 seconds to propagate. You can get word count, page count etc. That's all good, but I like to track my actual writing in wpm/h/d, time spent and time left on project, and other things. I do this because it helps keep me motivated. Novel Factory has this built in, Scriv I have to use a spreadsheet that I designed. I also don't trust Scriv. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but at least three times in the last year I have lost a significant amount of work after the program crashed while I was writing. I know all of the technical reasons this can happen using any program, it just so happens that Scriv is the one I've been using and over the last year it has felt more unstable, not less.

As for L&L reasons for not updating windows version as much, again, I understand, they're a business, they have to do what is best for them. I like Scriv, I really do, and one day when the Windows version has all the features that the Mac version does and doesn't feel tacked on, I will give them another go. It frustrates me to no end to watch a youtube video of someone doing something AWESOME in Scriv, only to find out that it's Mac only. I'm not saying Scriv is bad, I think it's pretty good, but not for me. The Novel Factory looks to be built for Windows from the ground up and uses a little more recent tech in it.


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## dmsinclair (Apr 5, 2015)

Does Novel Factory save your work as individual RTF or TXT files, or does it keep it all in one big file in a format that only it can open?

This to me is one of Scrivener's great strengths. I can't tell you how many bits of writing I have from decades ago that I can't open anymore because the app I created them in no longer exists. In a thousand years when I am a cyborg brain in a jar, even if I don't own Scrivener anymore I'll still be able to read all my ancient work because it's in RTF files that are readable by anything, on any platform.


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## noirhvy (Dec 29, 2015)

I am a masochist. I stay with Word. I love it when they put out a new version that has less features than the earlier version,


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

noirhvy said:


> I am a masochist. I stay with Word. I love it when they put out a new version that has less features than the earlier version,


If it works for you, more power to you! It doesn't matter what we use as long as whatever we use to write works for us.

George R.R. Martin uses a DOS writing program!


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

noirhvy said:


> I am a masochist. I stay with Word. I love it when they put out a new version that has less features than the earlier version,


Which features are you pining for? I know that I miss the old way that Word 5.1 for Mac created mathematical formulas. You had to do a bit of simple coding but then the numbers, _etc._, were displayed on the screen and on paper by using (I believe) Postscript. The looked great and were resizable with no loss of quality. Now, Word creates a graphic of the formula that doesn't display as well.


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## TheNovel Factory (Feb 17, 2016)

dmsinclair said:


> Does Novel Factory save your work as individual RTF or TXT files, or does it keep it all in one big file in a format that only it can open?
> 
> This to me is one of Scrivener's great strengths. I can't tell you how many bits of writing I have from decades ago that I can't open anymore because the app I created them in no longer exists. In a thousand years when I am a cyborg brain in a jar, even if I don't own Scrivener anymore I'll still be able to read all my ancient work because it's in RTF files that are readable by anything, on any platform.


Because it's a lot more hands on with the data, The Novel Factory actually has it's own file format, so yes, I'm afraid you would need to use The Novel Factory to open the files. However, the current desktop version comes with a lifetime licence, so you theoretically should always have access to it.

However, I can see your point and see how having plain text files is an advantage from that point of view : )


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