# Fantasy Writers :) How do you address a King? Is "Sir" Okay?



## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Kind of a stupid question but I find many different things on Google. I know it can be different things. But, I used just "sir." 

"Yes sir," the man said.

But, will readers get upset about this? My fantasy is set in a medieval type of time period. I was just wondering if I should change it to "sire", "my lord" etc? Or is just using "sir" perfectly fine?


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## dorihoxa (Feb 12, 2016)

I use Highness, sometimes Majesty. I see no problem with Sir.


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## J.A. Sutherland (Apr 1, 2014)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forms_of_address_in_the_United_Kingdom

Your Majesty, and thereafter as "Sire"


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

thanks guys. "Sire" just seems weird in text. I almost feel like it looks like I spelled sir wrong lol. Just seems kinda weird in text to me.


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

'Your grace' is one I hear a lot.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Also, this is another little question I have. Is there a comma before the word sir? Here is an example:

The guard was quick to agree. “Yes, sir. What should I tell Duncan?”

Is there always a comma before sir in dialogue? Like a pause? Because, I don't pause when I say "yes sir" in real life. That is why I am confused.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2016)

Referring to a king as "sir" would be weird. Sir is an actual title for a knight. 

In most fantasy, the king (or queen) is the top of the totem pole and has a unique set of honorifics. You wouldn't use a generic honorific to address the most powerful person in the land. 

Your Grace
Your Majesty
Your Eminence
etc. etc.


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## SandraMiller (May 10, 2011)

I've seen "Yes, sir" and "Yessir" (more casually). I don't think it's actually correct without the comma, but I could be wrong. Maybe I'm just used to seeing it like that 

I've used "your Grace," "your Majesty," "your Highness," and even "my Lord King" to address a king. I don't think I would have anybody call him sir unless they were an outsider unfamiliar with the culture, but I think a lot of that depends on the context of your story, and the formality of your court.

And, of course, whether you want an excuse to behead anybody


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## Shiriluna Nott (Aug 26, 2014)

I use "Highness" or "Majesty", and rarely "Sire" when addressing the King of the country. One of the foreign leaders in my world is addressed as "Your Grace."

"Sir" I use when addressing lords/other high ranking officials.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Sire means father. I find it a weird form of address.

That said, what do you call a king? *Whatever he wants you to call him.* This is fantasy, so you can make up your own form of address.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Shiriluna Nott said:


> I use "Highness" or "Majesty", and rarely "Sire" when addressing the King of the country. One of the foreign leaders in my world is addressed as "Your Grace."
> 
> "Sir" I use when addressing lords/other high ranking officials.


I suppose "your Highness" would be good. I hear that a lot.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

Your Majesty for the king or queen. Your Highness for a prince or princess. Your Grace for a duke or duchess. My Lord or My Lady for those below that level.


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## H.C. (Jul 28, 2016)

"Sir" would irk me as a reader. Just my two cents...


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

dragontucker said:


> Kind of a stupid question but I find many different things on Google. I know it can be different things. But, I used just "sir."
> 
> "Yes sir," the man said.
> 
> But, will readers get upset about this? My fantasy is set in a medieval type of time period. I was just wondering if I should change it to "sire", "my lord" etc? Or is just using "sir" perfectly fine?


A King should be addressed as Your Majesty or Sire. Sire does not apply to anyone else and Your Highness is for princes, princesses and other members of the royal family, never for a king or queen. Sir is not perfectly fine.

Of course, I write history, not fantasy but I imagine the same applies.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Lee Sutherland said:


> 'Your grace' is one I hear a lot.


In Hollywood and television, Your Grace is often wrongly used. It should be used only for a duke or duchess or for an Archbishop. But then in films Sire is used all over the place wrongly.


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## PatriciaThomson (Mar 23, 2016)

dragontucker said:


> Also, this is another little question I have. Is there a comma before the word sir? Here is an example:
> 
> The guard was quick to agree. "Yes, sir. What should I tell Duncan?"
> 
> Is there always a comma before sir in dialogue? Like a pause? Because, I don't pause when I say "yes sir" in real life. That is why I am confused.


Yes, there should always be a comma.

As far as addressing a king goes, you'll never go wrong with "Your Grace." The use of "Your Majesty" didn't really get cemented until the sixteenth century.

/history nerd


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

PatriciaThomson said:


> Yes, there should always be a comma.
> 
> As far as addressing a king goes, you'll never go wrong with "Your Grace." The use of "Your Majesty" didn't really get cemented until the sixteenth century.
> 
> /history nerd


Kings have never been called Your Grace. The Anglo Saxon Chronicles, started in the time of King Alfred (pre Norman Conquest) used the term His Majesty. They would not be called Your Eminence, either. That would be for a high churchman.


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

Shakespeare uses "my liege" quite a bit. Also "your grace" and "your majesty." Sometimes "my royal sovereign."  Saying "yes sir" is modern.

In Henry V, Westmoreland says to the king:

They know your grace hath cause and means and might;
So hath your highness; never king of England
Had nobles richer and more loyal subjects,
Whose hearts have left their bodies here in England
And lie pavilion'd in the fields of France.


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## Joseph Malik (Jul 12, 2016)

There should be a comma before "sir" unless you're using the colloquial "yessir."

This ended up a thousand words long, so it's now a blog post.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

Sorry, would this not depend on the setting?

In the great hall where the king is dispensing justice:  sire, majesty, lord, and maybe a whole long list of honorifics
at dinner with family and friends:  shortened down in informal (a lot more sire)
In a military setting where long titles can get stuffed because you are going to lose the war: Lord, sire, sir.

then again your fantasy.  you lay out the rules.  Correct?


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

Wow, lots of replies. I didn't see mine so I'll add to the post. I use Lord and Lady for nobility while using Master and Lady for civilians. It's my world so that's what I do, hehe 

I can say that I use the title KING as well. (King, Queen, Duke, Duchess, Count, Countess, Baron, Baroness, etc.)


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

"Sire" is probably best.  "Your Majesty," too.  I've seen "my liege," too, but I think that only applies if the country is actually using a feudal system and the person speaking has the king as their liege lord.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

I've seen various forms of address used in fantasy books, but the most common one for king was "Sire", with a few "Your Majesty" too.

If you call your nobility Lady and Lord, the commoners could be Master and Mistress, rather than Master and Lady.


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## J.A. Sutherland (Apr 1, 2014)

Fantasy worlds may be, well, fantasy, but words still have meanings that carry baggage in readers. Unless your intent is to challenge something in the reader and make a point, it's best to stick with the meaning readers know (even if it's only some readers). 

The thing about using existing terms in a fantasy setting with a changed meaning, is that some people already know the existing terms. If I read fantasy and the king is referred to as "your grace", I know that's wrong and it irritates me -- those who don't know, won't care, but those who do will. So it's a losing proposition, because the reader reactions are either ambivalence or negative. 

"Cool! The king in this fantasy world is addressed like an archbishop! How original!" said no reader ever.

Now if a new term is used, "Why, yes, Your Mightiness, right away, Poobah-man." that's different, because then it's part of the new world.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Doglover said:


> Kings have never been called Your Grace.


Source, please. Because the Internet (and my history nerdiness, too) says you're wrong and Patricia is right.

Also, OP, no. Not sir. Never sir. Do you read the genre you write? How do they do it?


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## J.A. Sutherland (Apr 1, 2014)

shimmering said:


> Perhaps this is wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_(style)


If you're writing a history, absolutely use it. But if you're writing a fantasy, then you have to overcome the baggage of three centuries of different usage in some readers' minds. Is it worth the cost? That's the writer's decision.


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## william J.roby (Jun 17, 2016)

'Your Grace' is the correct form of address for dukes and duchesses.
'Your Majesty,' seems the one to use for kings or queens, though I'm quite sure, as already noted on this forum, that 'Sir' or 'Sire'
( but the latter seems a bit antiquated now ) is acceptable, just as I understand 'mam' ( pronounced long as in 'arm' and not as in 'jam' )
is alright to use for a queen.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

dragontucker said:


> Kind of a stupid question but I find many different things on Google. I know it can be different things. But, I used just "sir."
> 
> "Yes sir," the man said.
> 
> But, will readers get upset about this? My fantasy is set in a medieval type of time period. I was just wondering if I should change it to "sire", "my lord" etc? Or is just using "sir" perfectly fine?


No, 'sir' is not all right if you are aiming to use what was used in the middle ages. On the other hand, it's your fantasy world so you can do what you want. But a medieval king would not have been addressed as sir. In the middle ages almost all kings were addressed as 'Your Grace'. Many people don't realize that so you often see 'Your Majesty' used although that is an anachronism.



J.A. Sutherland said:


> Fantasy worlds may be, well, fantasy, but words still have meanings that carry baggage in readers. Unless your intent is to challenge something in the reader and make a point, it's best to stick with the meaning readers know (even if it's only some readers).
> 
> The thing about using existing terms in a fantasy setting with a changed meaning, is that some people already know the existing terms. If I read fantasy and the king is referred to as "your grace", I know that's wrong and it irritates me -- those who don't know, won't care, but those who do will. So it's a losing proposition, because the reader reactions are either ambivalence or negative.
> 
> ...


I am afraid you-along with a couple of other people in this thread-are the ones who are mistaken. "Your Grace" or even "My Lord" was the correct term of address in England until Henry VIII decided he was a 'majesty' because the French king was, although it was used _occasionally_ after Richard II. Your Grace was always correct in Scotland for addressing their king. 

"Your Grace" is ALSO used to archbishops, not exclusively used to them.

These are the kinds of tiny details that are extremely easy to get wrong in historical fiction. A lot of writers do, including some good ones. For God's sake, do not depend on Wikipedia, however in this case even Wikipedia has it right. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majesty#In_the_United_Kingdom

In historical fiction, never take ANYTHING for granted. Just because many kings are now called Your Majesty doesn't mean they always were.

ETA: French kings _may have_ always used Majeste (damn accents won't show properly but there should be one). I know for a fact they were in later periods, but I'd want to do proper research that it isn't an anachronism before I wrote about French royalty. Assumptions tend to bite one on the ass.

In a fantasy where anachronisms are not an issue, if it were me, I'd probably go with Your Majesty because, like J.A. probably most people don't realize that using it is mostly an anachronism.


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## jvin248 (Jan 31, 2012)

.

Depends if the King/Queen is a wicked tyrant or if the country is in the middle of a war or at peace where more flowery titles are used. 

“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard (from Conan The Barbarian)

.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

On a side note, I have seen letters written to England's King Edward I in which he was referred to as "Dread Lord" which I assume was considered a compliment.


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## Joseph Malik (Jul 12, 2016)

JRTomlin said:


> On a side note, I have seen letters written to England's King Edward I in which he was referred to as "Dread Lord" which I assume was considered a compliment.


That's it. From here on out, I'm having my sergeants call me "Dread Lord Malik."


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Joseph Malik said:


> That's it. From here on out, I'm having my sergeants call me "Dread Lord Malik."


I'm sure that will go over well.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Another side note, I just remembered that GRRM uses 'Your Grace' in The Game of Thrones. He doesn't get everything right. Sadly, I'd argue with aspects of his battles, but there he has it correct. But not being GRRM, I think I'd still go with Your Majesty to avoid people telling you you have it wrong.


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## Joseph Malik (Jul 12, 2016)

JRTomlin said:


> I'd argue with aspects of his battles


You'd be right to.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Wow so many replies here!! Thanks everyone  I am still not sure what I am going with. I am gonna have to use "find and replace" function. I wrote sir. I hate doing find and replace because if I misspelled sir, I might miss one lol. Hopefully I didn't forget the r when I wrote it. To me, "Grace" sounds like something you would say to a Queen.


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## noirhvy (Dec 29, 2015)

Fictional British Navy Captain Horatio Hornblower had to deal with a Central American Banana Republic ruler who insisted he be called "EL Supremo," or The Almighty. He demanded a 24-gun salute because mere kings only got 21 gun salutes.
There was no Shaw of Iran. He was "Shaw en Shaw," or a "King of Kings." Think big.


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## Mikaela Copy Editor (Jun 3, 2015)

"Sir" would be disrespectful to call a king. "Your Highness" and "Your Majesty" are usually the go-to options. Used in a sentence, "sir" replaces someone's name, so you should follow the same comma placement rule. For example, "Sir, are you hungry?" or "Are you hungry, sir?"


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

dragontucker said:


> Wow so many replies here!! Thanks everyone  I am still not sure what I am going with. I am gonna have to use "find and replace" function. I wrote sir. I hate doing find and replace because if I misspelled sir, I might miss one lol. Hopefully I didn't forget the r when I wrote it. To me, "Grace" sounds like something you would say to a Queen.


Use whatever sounds right to you. (except maybe 'sir' lol) It's your world.

Grace in that meaning has nothing to do with gender or even elegance, but refers to the sovereign's honor and dignity. But I don't think you'd meet any criticism whatsoever by not using it. 

ETA: Grace in this sense relates to the verb usage which you rarely see any more. As a verb it means to bring honor to something. Someone might say:

_He is one of the finest actors ever to grace the stage._

It is more likely now to be used sarcastically though.


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## Mikaela Copy Editor (Jun 3, 2015)

dragontucker said:


> To me, "Grace" sounds like something you would say to a Queen.


You should watch (or read) Game of Thrones! You wouldn't believe how common usage of "Your Grace" is in that series. I can hear Sansa saying it now!


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## Parker Rimes (Jun 23, 2016)

brkingsolver said:


> Your Majesty for the king or queen. Your Highness for a prince or princess. Your Grace for a duke or duchess. My Lord or My Lady for those below that level.


I agree. SIR is only for kights.


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## Parker Rimes (Jun 23, 2016)

LOL. I meant knights, of course.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

In your defense, I'm pretty sure if I ever met a kight in a dark alley that I'd call him 'sir'. 

ETA: Aaaand to address one more minor issue an archaic definition of 'sire' is: "a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king". It is always good to remember that word usages change over time.


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## Nicksm28 (May 16, 2016)

There's no one right answer. I used "My King."


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