# Spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.



## WriterCTaylor (Jul 11, 2011)

I know this topic has probably been discussed before, but I am more than a little annoyed. I recently purchased an e-book of short stories. It was a horror book concentrating on zombies and there were a few reasonably well known authors stroies there. (Not everyone's cup of tea, but I felt like it at the time.) I was really enjoying it until about half way through when the book became peppered with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. I know some people don't mind, but for me it breaks my concentration and pulls me out of the story. I know from writing my own novel the amount of work that goes into proof reading, editing and copy editing, but it has to be done or the product is inferior.

I got the feeling that a group of authors were asked to sumbit and they quickly wrote something or submitted older stories that they hadn't proof read.

Some people say you can return the book etc, but I shouldn't have to do that in my opinion.

Does this annoy anyone else or am I wrong to expect quality?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't think you're wrong to expect quality, but the fact is there will be books you'll get -- both independently published and traditionally published -- where the proofing is not up to par.  Here's what you can do:

First, go to the book page at Amazon and scroll down and provide feedback.  As far as I know, this does not stay with Amazon; they pass it on to the author/publisher. Books have been known to be pulled and when they come back the errors have been fixed.

If it's within 7 days, ask for your money back.  It's no different than buying a radio and getting home and finding that it doesn't work.  Return it.  In fact, Amazon has been known to refund kbook money even after 7 days if the reason for the return is bad formatting.

Many will also advocate providing feedback directly to the author/publisher.  Not my thing, but lots of folks do.  I'd suggest the old saw "you catch more flies with honey" applies here:  definitely let them know what disappointed you but use the nicest possible language to do so.  Honestly, though, I'm not convinced this will have much effect with a large publisher.

As to whether it annoys me:  probably depends on my mood at the time, how well I liked the stories otherwise and, yes, how much I'd paid for the thing in the first place.  Yes all books published should look professional, but I'm likely to give a bit of a pass to a book that's only a couple of bucks where I wouldn't if I just spent $11 or $12 on the thing.

N.B.  The above is My Opinion Only.


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## Harry Shannon (Jul 30, 2010)

Absolutely. Some mistakes will always get through. Amazon sent us a notice about an error in grammar in my co-written novel, and we promptly corrected it and uploaded the file again. I love it. That part of ebooks is terrific, because the work will eventually end up as close to clean as human beings can ever manage to get anything.

I am terrible at proofing, and don't even notice smaller errors, but there is a point of critical mass, i.e. a distraction that takes me out of the story. That's not okay, we pay good money of entertainment, and human error is understandable, laziness and sloppiness are not.


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## patrickt (Aug 28, 2010)

The worst I've had were older books that were processed through an OCR and then had no proofreading. Writing to the publisher got a response that was exsuses for why they couldn't proofread so for now, I always order a sample of any book from Pegasus. I suspect they fly under other names.

I've read a few books that were simply sloppy but I understand that some new authors get their books on Amazon with minimal review. I suppose I support that in theory and will suffer through the bad ones.

Then there is the problem of college graduates who can't spell and don't know grammar who are working in publishing.


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## LaRita (Oct 28, 2008)

In the last week, I have found the following in a series I'm otherwise enjoying:

"grizzly" remains (grisly)
"liable" suit (libel)
"effluent" family (affluent).

These are definitely not scanning errors, just poor editing; they did annoy me because I got distracted from the story.


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## wordsmithjts (Nov 14, 2011)

I hate to see poor spelling and simple grammar mistakes in novels. This just show that the publisher just doesnt care about this book. As an author you must check your books out before they hit the stores to make sure they are just the way you want them. 
Of course having a few errors is no big deal if its a great story and a great book. I can look past that. Sometimes you dont even notice if you are so engrossed in the story.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Human error may be understandable, but it seems to frequently be an excuse for not putting forth the effort to make a quality product. I started reading/collecting back in the early fifties, and the sorts of errors I see nowadays were almost non-existant back then. Most of my reading back then was of books published in the 30/40/50s and those books were of excellent quality, proofing-wise. Rarely an error of any kind. They are a pleasure to read. 

I know there are people out there who care... the conversion to ebook of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe series by Random House is a model for everyone to follow. Out of the 35 or so books in the series that I have so far, I think there were something like half a dozen errors that I caught in total.

I've even seen ebooks with duplicate chapters (This is familiar. Didn't I just read this?). And then there was the one with all the editing info left in the book, strike-throughs and all. And the one with the French-specific letters that converted to multiple garbage characters.

Honestly, is it so difficult to even run a spell-checker on a manuscript? 

Mike


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## Tess St John (Feb 1, 2011)

Errors drive me nuts.

I saw an antique show not too long ago and they authenticated a first edition GONE WITH THE WIND by the typos in the book...I guess the human factor will always be a part of publishing.


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## GerrieFerrisFinger (Jun 1, 2011)

Most definitely return the book if the errors are many and the book is not what is promised.


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## brianjanuary (Oct 18, 2011)

For me, a few mistakes are fine, but a plethora gets very annoying, very quickly. I have come across some pretty egregious errors (spelling, grammar, fact-checking) in quite a few legacy-published novels, so the problem doesn't occur in just self-published works.

And (sound of teeth gnashing) I just found a missing period I didn't catch in my own novel!

Well...nobody's perfect!

Brian January


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

jljarvis said:


> * Or is it just me? (I know it's "Is it just I?" That's a whole other discussion: When correct grammar parts ways from common parlance and sounds weird.) But my real question is: How many passes does it take before you're satisfied that your manuscript is ready to publish? For me, it's at LEAST three, but usually more like five. (I don't hire it out. I probably will when the balance sheet--which is now on a roll of Scott tissue--looks better.)


Worthy of discussion, no doubt. . .but probably that discussion is best had in the Writer's Cafe.


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## Darlene Jones (Nov 1, 2011)

Annoys the heck out of me. The mechanics of writing are vital to a smooth and pleasurable read.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

_***again. . . a reminder. . . we're in the Book Corner so the topic should be addressed from the point of view of readers, even if you're also a writer.  And, please, no links or other self-promotion. Thanks!_


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I know that you can't trust spell checkers, but they still have their uses.


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## Todd Trumpet (Sep 7, 2011)

It's rare that I read a book - _any _book - that doesn't have some typos.

I recently finished reading the 11-novel HORNBLOWER SAGA by C.S. Forester. This is a series of books that has been around for 50+ years and been published in many forms...

...yet every book in the most recent trade paperback edition contained some errors.

I guess it's just impossible to completely proof any book, but I agree with the notion that the more typos a book contains...

...the less I value it...

...or its content.

Todd


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## Kim Sheard (Nov 13, 2011)

I seem to have a threshold at which I get pushed over into annoyance because of errors. Strangely enough, if they are present pretty much from the start, I have a higher tolerance for them than if they start cropping up part way through; which essentially makes me feel as though someone just got lazy. But errors throughout do affect my opinion about the professionalism of the writer/publisher. 

I know that no editor or publisher can guarantee 100% that there will be no errors after the editing and proofreading process - I am attempting to be on that side of the table myself just now, so I know that things can slip through - but it should be something that happens occasionally, not consistently. And frankly, I have found a higher incident rate of errors in ebooks than paper... which I have always put down to a lower level of interest or care from the publisher. 

Until recently, the digital copy of the book wasn't the one that was getting much exposure, so I suppose it wasn't being given the resources needed. As with any other medium switching to digital, it will take a bit of time before the processes catch up with the demand.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Interestingly, I was just reading a review of The House of Silk: A Sherlock Holmes Novel in the Washington Post. Guy gave it a great review but did note that twice there was a misspelling of Edgar Allan Poe and Mary Morstan (Watson's wife). He was reviewing the paper book . . . so it's not a problem just with the "e" variety.


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## mscottwriter (Nov 5, 2010)

> First, go to the book page at Amazon and scroll down and provide feedback. As far as I know, this does not stay with Amazon; they pass it on to the author/publisher. Books have been known to be pulled and when they come back the errors have been fixed.


I had no idea that you could do that! I'm glad to find that out. Next time, I'll know where to go.

And, btw...the correct way to say it is: "Is it just I." Once a grammar teacher, always a grammar teacher, lol.


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## normcowie (Jun 21, 2011)

I think it's rare to find a book, any book, professionally edited or otherwise, where there isn't something the editors missed. I just read best selling author Barry Eisler's new book and there was a point where the same sentence was repeated. Did it kill my enjoyment of the book? No. Did it make me think less of the book? No. I just smiled and moved on.

That differs from when I read a book where the author misuses 'its' and 'it's' or 'their' and 'there.' If the same error repeats, it will probably bug me.


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

Errors definitely pull me out of the story. A few I can forgive, more than that it needs to go back for more editing.


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

It does bother me but I realize that I'm a little more sensitive to this than others. Usually I consider a book with 5 or so pretty good. When you start hitting 5-10 then I'm on the line. Anything over that is a problem and really detracts from the story. If it gets really bad I just stop.

And just a note, what we're all talking about is actually proofreading not editing.


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## cindyvine (Jan 13, 2011)

We have to remember some books are written in British English so the grammar and spelling might be a little different.  That doesn't make them poorly edited.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

fayrlite said:


> And just a note, what we're all talking about is actually proofreading not editing.


Yep. It's one of those things I don't even bother to point out to people any more, much like all the people that say fonts when they mean type families or typefaces.

Mike


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

jmiked said:


> Yep. It's one of those things I don't even bother to point out to people any more, much like all the people that say fonts when they mean type families or typefaces.
> 
> Mike


lol I suppose so. I'm sure I'm guilty of that.


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## WriterCTaylor (Jul 11, 2011)

brianjanuary said:


> For me, a few mistakes are fine, but a plethora gets very annoying, very quickly. I have come across some pretty egregious errors (spelling, grammar, fact-checking) in quite a few legacy-published novels, so the problem doesn't occur in just self-published works.


I agree. I can handle the odd mistake, but this book got to the point there were several per chapter. At first I thought it was intentional because one of the stories was being written by a person who had been bitten by a zombie and was slowly turning into one. I thought it made sense that he was having trouble writing given the circumstances. Then the next story had mistakes and the next one and the next one.

Glad to see it isn't just me, or is it just I...now I'm confused.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Minor typos and errors dont really bother me that much in indies, self-pubs, small pubs. But I seem to find almost as many such things in mainsteam published ebooks. And that does bother me, because I am usually paying top dollar for those. To me, there is no excuse, when charging a premium, not have have the best OCR software AND proofreaders.

I can deal with some errors. I dont focus on 'proprieties' when reading for pleasure, it doesnt bother me unless it's very bad and makes it difficult to understand the writing. 

What does bother me is the big pubishers charging big prices for sloppiness.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

jljarvis said:


> In recent years (before I switched primarily to ebooks) it got so I was finding typos in pretty much every mass market paperback that I read. And these were from major publishers. Given the resources at their disposal, I found this inexcusable. I'm more forgiving of indie authors. But I have my limits there, too. It's a grind to proof a manuscript multiple times*, but it has to be done. It's well worth the effort.


Agreed.


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## Louie Flann (Aug 3, 2011)

I have noticed typos is on-line newspapers. NYT, Washington Post, Daily Beast, and Huffington Post.

I know that these people are under deadlines but aren't editing and proofreading an integral part of the writing process?


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## Jim Krieger (Oct 8, 2011)

We all have a threshold for error tolerance.  It just gets to the point that you are looking for thenext typo and no the next plot turn.  But it is unavoidable to some degree.  I had two separate professional editors review my book and readers still found a couple of mistakes.  I can stand maybe ten scattered through a book, but ten a chapter puts it in the unfinished pile.


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## Erick Flaig (Oct 25, 2010)

WriterCTaylor said:


> At first I thought it was intentional because one of the stories was being written by a person who had been bitten by a zombie and was slowly turning into one. I thought it made sense that he was having trouble writing given the circumstances.


This is the greatest thing I've ever read about proofreading or editing. I'm putting it above my monitor for when I re-write. Thank you for making my day!


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2011)

I might read over some errors, but too many would be distracting for me as well.

On a side note, I realized recently that many people really don't know there are different style guides for spelling and punctuation! I can't tell you how many times someone from the UK has thought I was spelling words wrong lol.

Yours in Books,
Shana


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Readers should demand the highest possible quality in works they acquire (be it for oodles of $$$ or for free), because we invest time in the reading, and if its a chore, it might be better off washing the dishes or balancing our check books. Is there a forgiveness factor - to forgive is divine, but most authors can't afford to err,. They should be gracious when a reader turns a blind eye to a typo or an unintentional grammar error (as a reader, my grammar may be different from Faulkers and indeed, Practchett's).

Edward C. Patterson


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## WriterCTaylor (Jul 11, 2011)

cindyvine said:


> We have to remember some books are written in British English so the grammar and spelling might be a little different. That doesn't make them poorly edited.


I'm aware of British English as I'm a New Zealand author and we use the same. My book was changed by the publisher to American spelling, but I have no issue with that because that is where they are based. I am talking about the spelling mistakes and errors that are incorrect in any grammar.


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## Skate (Jan 23, 2011)

As someone said, every book will have some mistakes, even if it's a missing comma or two, but slack editing is not good. I sometimes wonder if people actually know the difference between some words. My pet hates are 'your' for 'you're', 'whose' for 'who's' (basic third grade stuff) and 'passed' for 'past' (eg I went passed the shop instead of I went past the shop). The problem with those is that spellcheck doesn't pick them up and some authors seem to rely on spellcheck for editing. I stress 'some'. A lot of books I've read have been very well edited.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

WriterCTaylor said:


> I'm aware of British English as I'm a New Zealand author and we use the same. My book was changed by the publisher to American spelling, but I have no issue with that because that is where they are based. I am talking about the spelling mistakes and errors that are incorrect in any grammar.


I don't think the poster to whom you were responding was directing the comment at anyone in particular. . . but it is not too unusual to see a review of a book complaining about things like misspellings and misplaced quotation marks that are not 'wrong', just British standard when the reviewer was expecting US standard or vice versa.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I recently wrote a review of Stephenie Myers's "Twilight" for my blog.

Here is what I put in the Editing Section:

In the opening chapters, the author switched verb tenses once, then I came across this sentence:

"The room was familiar; it had been belonged to me since I was born."

My son's girlfriend checked her paper copy of the book, and strangely, this error did not appear.

A little further in, readers find out that there was a _*moat*_ of dust in Bella's room. Yep, those people need a maid.

Anyway, after that, I turned off my editor brain to try to get into the story. There certainly weren't enough errors to rate this section, but I wanted to mention these because it truly annoyed me that the publisher would leave such errors in the Kindle version, but have them corrected for the print one.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

LaRita said:


> In the last week, I have found the following in a series I'm otherwise enjoying:
> 
> "grizzly" remains (grisly)
> "liable" suit (libel)
> ...


BWAA HAAA HAAA HAAA .... an effluent family of grizzlies are liable to be many things .... poor Goldilocks ....


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

With regards to errors, personally I find that formatting errors and continuity errors bother me more.  Two examples: I was reading an excellent story a few months back and due to off formatting bug the text became black on a black background.  Yeah that made it a little hard to read, but I managed to get through it by changing some settings.  In another, several times throughout the story the author would kill off a character only to have that character show up in the next chapter.  There was really no excuse for that and it definitely pulled me out of the story.

I can handle the occasional typo.  As an indie author, as much as I try my best (and usually with 3rd party eyes looking at it as well) I know a few will slip by.  However, when I do find them in my own stuff / am notified of them I make it a point to fix them and post a new version as quickly as possible.  I'll also reach out to other authors via either email or private message if I find anything glaring in something of theirs I'm reading.  

I am reminded of one of my calculus teachers with regards to typos.  Some teachers would kill you for the slightest error.  If he found that you, say, accidentily  added instead of subtracted (as long as the rest of your work was sound) he'd take off one "stupidity" point and let the rest slide.  I take a similar approach to typos.  As long as the story is good the occasional one here and there doesn't pull me out of  it.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Geoffrey said:


> BWAA HAAA HAAA HAAA .... an effluent family of grizzlies are liable to be many things .... poor Goldilocks ....


It just kills me that the grizzlies are doing so well in this economy while the rest of us struggle.

Sincerely, Goldilocks


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## Julia444 (Feb 24, 2011)

I find it irritating, as well.  The errors are in print books and e books, and even on television.  When I watch the nightly news, I generally find at least one typo per night. Sometimes it's a misspelled name in a caption; other times it's a misspelled city on the weather map!  One weather error was so egregious that I wrote an e-mail to the station.  Instead of "Partly Sunny," the words on the screen read "Partly Simmy."  To make matters worse, that graphic was up for a good two minutes.

The weather person wrote back to me personally, saying that there was no editor--it was just her, and her screen had gone down right before the forecast.  She had to re-type the material rapidly, and she made mistakes.

But that's the problem: there was no editor.  She was left to do the work herself, hastily, and the result was an on-air embarrassment.  In some cases I suppose the errors are due to a lack of money and less editorial staff.  

In other cases, (as in e-books) the authors should be more careful about proofing the books that they submit.  They do have the chance to preview books through the Kindle viewing window before they click "publish."

Julia


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## WriterCTaylor (Jul 11, 2011)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> In another, several times throughout the story the author would kill off a character only to have that character show up in the next chapter. There was really no excuse for that and it definitely pulled me out of the story.


I can't say I've found that before. I would be very disappointed if I read a story where the author hasn't kept track of their own characters. As many others have said a few spelling mistakes are not going to kill a story for you, but if there are mistakes right through the manuscript it destroys the story.

It also makes me wonder if the author is proud of their work and what their motivation is. Are they a lover of writing or do they just want to get as many books out there as possible regardless of the quality to make money?

Some people probably don't care what the author's motivation is, I know.


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## Tempo (Nov 15, 2011)

There's definitely a difference between someone making a few genuine mistakes and someone who is not that great at grammar and spelling in the first place. I've always wondered what the equivalent of this is in other arts. A painter that can't stay between the lines? A singer who is always off-key? Those aren't forgivable in their own realms so I can't rightly say it should be forgivable in the literary world.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

WriterCTaylor said:


> I can't say I've found that before. I would be very disappointed if I read a story where the author hasn't kept track of their own characters. As many others have said a few spelling mistakes are not going to kill a story for you, but if there are mistakes right through the manuscript it destroys the story.
> 
> It also makes me wonder if the author is proud of their work and what their motivation is. Are they a lover of writing or do they just want to get as many books out there as possible regardless of the quality to make money?
> 
> Some people probably don't care what the author's motivation is, I know.


I'm not sure. All I know is that this definitely wasn't a first time author. They had plenty of other material available (although I haven't bothered to read any of it.)

For a while there I was wondering if maybe it was some sort of satire that was just going over my head. After all doing that for comedic purposes could be pretty funny. However, no. As far as I am aware this was marketed as a pure horror novel, and not even one where such occurances could be explained by the supernatural. It was just exceptionally poor editing as far as I could tell.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Tempo said:


> There's definitely a difference between someone making a few genuine mistakes and someone who is not that great at grammar and spelling in the first place. I've always wondered what the equivalent of this is in other arts. A painter that can't stay between the lines? A singer who is always off-key? Those aren't forgivable in their own realms so I can't rightly say it should be forgivable in the literary world.


With singing, I suppose it would be consistently not hitting the notes, or getting the rhythm wrong. But it has been a very long time since painting has a agreed upon system of what is "correct" like we have with grammar or spelling. Maybe if they are clearly attempting to do a realistic drawing, but get the proportions or perspective wrong? I dont think there is an easy equivalent in any of the visual arts.


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## CJBranscome (Oct 25, 2011)

Did you know there are reasons why we can't spot our own typos? 

Essentially, our eyes are a little too helpful.

Also, publishers are not hiring the crackerjack proofreaders/copyeditors they used to hire. I think copyeditors across industries are the first to go when the economy experiences a downturn. The idea is that everyone can edit their own stuff, but science says that may not be true.

I have some ideas about how to work around our eyes and list them on the blog. 

Happy reading & writing this Thanksgiving Day! 

CJ


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Yes--that's very true. 
In one of my psychology classes back in college, they mentioned a study where there were photos of a person standing against a highly patterned wall. Most people never realized that in one of the pictures, the head was missing.

The mind supplied what should have been there, rather than what was there.

The same is true when you're trying to edit your own work. You know what it should be saying. Your mind will tell you it is saying that.

And once your editor has gone through your manuscript a few times, the same phenomena will happen to him/her. That's why most publishers use a different person, a separate copy editor, to find any remaining errors. That copy editor's eyes and mind are fresh.

It's also why readers find all our mistakes--they don't have a "preconception" of what it should be saying so they see what it is actually saying.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

CJBranscome said:


> Did you know there are reasons why we can't spot our own typos? I wrote about it on my blog: http://bit.ly/rGZDeh
> 
> Essentially, our eyes are a little too helpful.
> 
> ...


Cool blog post! I'd heard of the idea of changing the typeface, but not the margins or reading backwards. The video did not play for me - maybe I dont have the right browser plugin?

And one small thing, hope you dont mind me commenting on this - I struggled a bit to read your post because the text is centered. I find left justified text a lot easier to read as my eye does not keep having to jump to a new place at the beginning of each new line.


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## monicaleonelle (Oct 7, 2010)

I've found that the best person to give feedback to is the author, especially if you want to see the errors fixed in future additions. This is true for indie and traditionally published authors. Why? They care the most--it's their baby. And often, the author may have had it right but the book errors happen because of an editor or a typesetter (or a Kindle formatting issue). Sometimes the error is out of the author's control, but they will be on top of fixing it.


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## RJ Locksley (Oct 21, 2011)

As a reader I get very twitchy about spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors. It's like fingernails on a blackboard. If I spot an error on the first page, or multiple errors in the first chapter, I usually stop reading. It's not that I blame the author - not everyone is good with the technical stuff, and not everyone can afford to hire a freelancer. Sometimes even the professionals have difficulty producing clean, error-free copy.

Anecdote: About eight months ago, I was interning in a production department when a particular book was going to press. The page proofs had been checked by the author, the editor, the copy-editor, the proofreader and the production controller, sometimes more than once. I was checking one last time that all the pages were in order when I did a slight double-take.

The italics were messed up. All of them. On every single page.

I spent the next two days industriously marking up more than three hundred pages. I probably made over a thousand corrections. Anyone want to know the proofreader's mark for DON'T ITALICISE THIS? It's engraved in my memory.

Conclusion? Multiple professionals can read a book over and over again and still mess up badly. So I try to cut self-published authors some slack.

PS: If you're coming across errors in a recently released, traditionally published novel, whether print or e, the publisher might appreciate it if you dropped them a line. They can add those fixes to the reprint file to be corrected in the next edition.


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## N S Cooke (Sep 27, 2011)

My first book took me about eighteen months to complete - the first draft; about thirteen readings; then to proofing, and _oh_ the debates we had on words, phrases etc. And finally, the release of the book; and I'm still not happy. I'm going to do a second edition and swap a chapter around for greater impact when I finish my next novel.

However, after all this - I am sure there will be the odd mistake. But I'm darned if I can find it when I look! It's when you don't look and are haplessly reading through that the buggers turn up.

All the best

Nick


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

We're currently screening for copy editors, and it's amazing to me how many editors/writers aren't aware of common mistakes (at least, I thought they were common!) We put together a quiz and the results have not been as great as I would have hoped, though we're had some promising responses. My point would be that there are a lot of people who do think they are good with grammar and punctuation, but they still make a lot of common errors. I've even had a few people who took the quiz argue with me over the answers...to which I could do little more than provide resources and then listen to them tell me our publishing house is too picky in regards to correct grammar/punctuation. That said, we're really not looking for perfection. The most surprising result so far is that those testing highest on the his quiz are WRITERS...NOT editors! Ha. Go figure, right?


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## BRONZEAGE (Jun 25, 2011)

Lursa (was 9MMare) said:


> I can deal with some errors. I dont focus on 'proprieties' when reading for pleasure, it doesnt bother me unless it's very bad and makes it difficult to understand the writing.
> 
> What does bother me is the big pubishers charging big prices for sloppiness.


That. I cannot remember the last Big 6 title that didn't have major or repeated typos throughout. One speculates that proofing is being sent to overseas shops where English is not the first or even second language.

Most recent example was a Helen Hollick work, I Am the Chosen King. It also needed basic editing to get rid of overused phrases like "louring skies" and using the trite lip-biting thing to show a character is anxious.


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## CJBranscome (Oct 25, 2011)

mashadutoit said:


> Cool blog post! I'd heard of the idea of changing the typeface, but not the margins or reading backwards. The video did not play for me - maybe I dont have the right browser plugin?
> 
> And one small thing, hope you dont mind me commenting on this - I struggled a bit to read your post because the text is centered. I find left justified text a lot easier to read as my eye does not keep having to jump to a new place at the beginning of each new line.


Thank you! I'm so sorry the video did not play. Here's the youtube link. I hope it works! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubNF9QNEQLA

Regarding the centering (and no, I don't mind you mentioning it!), I am an academic by training, and I tend to go on and on and on when I write, so I was trying to use a blog I like as a model and that author centers her text and doesn't write much per post. I felt that centering it would keep me from going on and on and on. I'll definitely go back to the left justified for things that have some substance like this post.

I hope the video works!

CJ


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## CJBranscome (Oct 25, 2011)

Amy Corwin said:


> Yes--that's very true.
> In one of my psychology classes back in college, they mentioned a study where there were photos of a person standing against a highly patterned wall. Most people never realized that in one of the pictures, the head was missing.
> 
> The mind supplied what should have been there, rather than what was there.
> ...


That's interesting about the head missing. I think this is why people are terrible at accident recollections as well. If I'm ever robbed, I'm almost positive I'll be the victim going, "Well, I think it was...a...person?"

I'm editing a textbook, and five people have worked on the editing (as you mentioned, it gets passed around). One chapter had a typo in the second line and five people missed it. I just happened to see it on the most recent read, but I'm not sure how. I sent the two sentences to my co-author and she said it took her several reads to find the error in those two sentences. It was very depressing. What ELSE have we missed?!

CJ


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## Iain Manson (Apr 3, 2011)

Lursa (was 9MMare) said:


> Minor typos and errors dont really bother me that much in indies, self-pubs, small pubs.


Well, it bothers me, because sloppy writing shows disrespect for the reader. We should expect the same standards from indie books as we do from those put out by the Big Six. Why should careless writing matter less in some books than in others?

It sounds kind-hearted to say that we must be tolerant of the mistakes made by the little people, but really it's patronising. I don't want to be judged by a lower standard just because I'm not with a big publisher.

To go off at something of a tangent, it's worth bearing in mind that English spelling was something of a free-for-all before Dr Johnson published his famous Dictionary in 1755. With small deviations here and there, his orthography has gained universal acceptance, and spelling mistakes grate on most of us.

Might I suggest the public execution of some of the worst offenders, in order (as Voltaire put it in a slightly different context) to encourage the others? Wouldn't do any harm, would it?


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Iain Manson said:


> Might I suggest the public execution of some of the worst offenders, in order (as Voltaire put it in a slightly different context) to encourage the others? Wouldn't do any harm, would it?


Actually, when we are pilloried and catch a few tomatoes, it does us good. I have an editor and a strict editing process (elaborate, in fact), which wasn't in place with my first four books (I've published 1. I've been writing for fifty years and thought that that was the ticket on the train to perfection. Little did I realize that editing and proofing is not the author's task alone, BUT the author's responsibility alone. When I was praised for my authorial attributes, but pilloried for editorial lapses, I developed my process (and got me an editor) before I had garnered enough veggies for a stew. Those easily books were relaunched. One is my bestseller. However, as the feedback poured in, the comments on the occasional lapse lessened, and I became a microbe hunter with the intensity of Mao Tse-tung searching his underwear for lice at an Edgar Snow interview. So, the pillory is a good device to teach us authors that it's unacceptable to pass gas and call it perfume. However, let's leave the executioner for Ko Ko in _The Mikado _ (although Gilbert executed many a colleague and several critics).

Edward C. Patterson


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## brianjanuary (Oct 18, 2011)

I have found a number of spelling, grammatical, and factual errors not only in Kindle books, but in legacy-published books as well, so no one is immune! 

It seems to me that the world has become so fast-paced that things are just rushed out there--maybe just to make a dollar--or (hopefully not), people just don't know the difference anymore!

Brian January


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

brianjanuary said:


> I have found a number of spelling, grammatical, and factual errors not only in Kindle books, but in legacy-published books as well, so no one is immune!
> 
> It seems to me that the world has become so fast-paced that things are just rushed out there--maybe just to make a dollar--or (hopefully not), people just don't know the difference anymore!
> 
> Brian January


If authors make readers their number one priority, the rest falls into place.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Colin Taber (Apr 4, 2011)

I can overlook a few errors, 1 every chapter would be the limit of my tolerance (for punctuation and such). Incorrect word usuage is another matter. I find that like hitting a wall. Usually that will stop me reading if I'm already not hooked in by the story.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Iain Manson said:


> Well, it bothers me, because sloppy writing shows disrespect for the reader. We should expect the same standards from indie books as we do from those put out by the Big Six. Why should careless writing matter less in some books than in others?
> 
> It sounds kind-hearted to say that we must be tolerant of the mistakes made by the little people, but really it's patronising. I don't want to be judged by a lower standard just because I'm not with a big publisher.
> 
> ...


LOL

Well, as a professional writer, I can easily see how authors can let even egregious mistakes get thru. I can proof my own work but for it to be effective, I need some time in between. Otherwise it's almost useless...I see what I thought I wrote....and miss the two 'the's' in a row or the wrong tense.

That's why there should _always _ be editors and I usually hold them as accountable as the writers. The writer's job is to write and be understood. The editor's job is clean up....at varying levels, depending on the situation.

I just finished The Jakarta Pandemic. Aside from some typos (but not more than I've seen in mainstream published fiction) the tenses switched more than a teenage girl's crushes. It was the author's fault but I'm guessing there was no editor. For the author to miss it, is somewhat understandable...for an editor it was completely inexcusable IMO. It was a pretty good book tho and once I recognized it was frequent, I just ignored it.


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## CJBranscome (Oct 25, 2011)

Lursa (was 9MMare) said:


> Well, as a professional writer, I can easily see how authors can let even egregious mistakes get thru. I can proof my own work but for it to be effective, I need some time in between. Otherwise it's almost useless...I see what I thought I wrote....and miss the two 'the's' in a row or the wrong tense.


It seems more and more companies are of the mindset that professional writers can edit themselves and no longer keep the sharp editor on staff.

I'm with you on the tense change. That drives me crazy!

CJ


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

Iain Manson said:


> Well, it bothers me, because sloppy writing shows disrespect for the reader. We should expect the same standards from indie books as we do from those put out by the Big Six. Why should careless writing matter less in some books than in others?
> 
> It sounds kind-hearted to say that we must be tolerant of the mistakes made by the little people, but really it's patronising. I don't want to be judged by a lower standard just because I'm not with a big publisher.
> 
> ...


We should also look for quality in terms of technique and story. There is some very lovely-edited garbage out there, too, ya know?

As they say, no sense polishing a turd. (though I guess in some places, they like polished turds lol)

In all seriousness though, I like a good story with great execution that is polished. But if I had to pick between a book with great execution and some typos, OR a typo-free, punctuation-perfect, piece of flatly-written drivel... well, I'll take my typos, please. (Though I rather not have to choose!)


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

CJBranscome said:


> It seems more and more companies are of the mindset that professional writers can edit themselves and no longer keep the sharp editor on staff.
> 
> I'm with you on the tense change. That drives me crazy!
> 
> CJ


Just for the record, and not that I use it often, but there is an author technique during action sequences to shift the tense from past to present and back again. Now this is a difficult technique to master and is not excuse for tense agreement within a clause. Still, the reason its used is a sleight of hand for temporal distortion, usually shortening ther number words necessary to lengthen the time period. Tought I'd mention it, since it's in the legal battery of authorial wonders.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Tim C. Taylor (May 17, 2011)

WriterCTaylor said:


> I'm aware of British English as I'm a New Zealand author and we use the same. My book was changed by the publisher to American spelling, but I have no issue with that because that is where they are based. I am talking about the spelling mistakes and errors that are incorrect in any grammar.


Although many major publishers let a few errors few (as an editor myself I guess I spot them more readily) indie's should aspire to be as error-free as possible. Each error takes me out of the story. A few errors I can survive with a good story, but the cumulative effect of many errors will make me stop reading.

As for the fact that there are many variations of English. I'm glad you get changed to American English. I'm British and do the same with my own fiction (and use American proof readers deliberately). But I publish other authors and some use British spellings. I've had Amazon pull a book due to complaints of multiple typos. Amazon couldn't actually tell me what they were (though they insisted they existed and needed to be corrected). I'm convinced it was a reader who thought British spellings were typos.


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## WriterCTaylor (Jul 11, 2011)

I have to admit I am a little surprised at the differing levels of tolerance. While some can't stand a single error in an entire book, other people actually have a limit that if reached, they will put the book down. I don't have a limit as such, but if there is a combination of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and poor story line, the book goes in the 'give to someone else' pile.


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