# So you didn't like the Paperwhite/Voyage, now what? The solutions thread



## FearIndex

I thought it might be helpful to start a thread for those of us who are looking for an alternative after whatever disappointment they had with the Kindle Paperwhite. We already have a perfectly good thread for discussing the exchanges and display issues and whatnot (here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,128460.0.html), so this not about those, this is about the alternatives to looking for the perfect PW... Also, I know many people are perfectly happy with their Kindle Paperwhites, so this thread is not for them. Be happy and in peace. 

I'm thinking here we could discuss the alternatives and solutions. For those of us who were disappointed by the Kindle PW and are returning it, or are not going to use it as their main Kindle, or want to mod it to be suitable, what are you going to do or read on instead? What is your solution? I know I certainly faced this question when I came to the conclusion I just don't want to read on the frontlit screen in the dark (my review: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129852.0.html) which is my main reading time (I may still use it in well lit situations, though, because it works well there for me)... What alternatives have you pondered and what did you decide?

To start off, I had three ideas I'm planning to explore or explored. First one I put into action today by ordering the new black baby Kindle. I'm hoping the new version is a slight upgrade from the baby Kindle 4, which I think might serve my needs well. I am adding to it a new case, since I was disappointed with the old Amazon lighted cover. I'm trying the TeckNet Kindle Lighted Leather Cover With Integrated Flexible Reading Light Book Style. I'm not perfectly satisfied with my old Kindle 4 setup to go back to it and my old Kindle 3 is in other use... and Kindle 2, while still perfect and adorable, is just feeling like it belongs to a museum.

I also had an alternative that I didn't do, but did ponder: modding my old Kindle 4 Amazon lighted leather case to fix the most glaring issue with it - the glare. It shines in my eyes when reading in the bed, so I looked for some purpose made shield to put on it (I didn't find any though) or wondered if I could minimize the glare with a piece of masking tape or something. This could have made my existing Kindle 4 more bearable in the now-necessary longer run... But in the end I chose the upgrade above. I'm hoping the new baby Kindle and a new, more suitable case will tide me over to whenever Amazon comes up with something new I just have to have again.

The other thing, funnily enough, I'm going to keep me eye on is the possibility of a lighted third-party case for the Kindle Paperwhite, because I'm not returning the PW for various reasons. I know this may sound a bit crazy, but turning the frontlight to minimum, in a lighted room does create a fairly nice result. If Amazon could allow turning the frontlight completely off, it would be even better. A lighted case for the Kindle PW might be the solution for me, because I don't like using a table lamp or the frontlight, but do like the PW best otherwise. Maybe even a small penlight or something might be suitable, I did use something similar with Kindle 2 way back when.

So, I'm also looking for a third-party lighted cover for the Paperwhite as well. If anyone has any suggestions on that, I'd be pleased to hear.

Not optimal, but this is my dual approach. What is yours?


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## bordercollielady

I returned my PW.  I won't go into all the reasons here - except that I need/want page turn buttons.  So for now - I am happily engaged with my K3 right now.. reading under my lamp.  And I sent an email to Amazon requesting a PW with buttons or else a K3 with that screen.  Actually - I would really prefer the latter so I can reuse all my Oberon covers.    I think they will eventually do something for those of us that are not "touch" lovers for whatever reason.


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## Me and My Kindle

I like the Paperwhite. My only real issue with the Paperwhite is that sometimes that light just doesn't feel _natural_. At the end of the day, I shut down my computer, and I like to think that I've freed myself from all that technology and electronic gizmos. So for now, I still find myself going back to the older Kindles sometimes - and the fact that they're _not _lighting up feels comforting and old-fashioned -- almost like it's a _traditional_ Kindle.

So for that reason, I was going to suggest that people might want to try to find a Kindle DX if they don't like their Kindle Paperwhite. Instead of a _brighter _screen, it gives you a _larger _screen. So it's improving contrast the old-fashioned way. Also, besides the larger screen, I hear Amazon is discontinuing them -- they've stopped listing the Kindle DX at Amazon.

So that makes it feel like a quaint collector's item!


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## larryb52

you are going to have to trust me on this but try a regular 69 kindle has a very white screen & nice dark text... this reader should not be confused with last years, this years has a black bezel & newer screen, just a suggestion , I do want a PW but I want to see it fixed first...


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## parakeetgirl

larryb52 said:


> you are going to have to trust me on this but try a regular 69 kindle has a very white screen & nice dark text... this reader should not be confused with last years, this years has a black bezel & newer screen, just a suggestion , I do want a PW but I want to see it fixed first...


This is what I decided to go with after I canceled both PW orders. The new basic Kindle has a great screen. I have it in a lighted case that I got for $18 but I also use the KF HD for most of my in the dark reading.


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## FearIndex

Thank you for the suggestions guys! I'm sure our ideas can be helpful to many. (And yes, I am now going to try the $69 Kindle next.)



FearIndex said:


> The other thing, funnily enough, I'm going to keep me eye on is the possibility of a lighted third-party case for the Kindle Paperwhite, because I'm not returning the PW for various reasons. I know this may sound a bit crazy, but turning the frontlight to minimum, in a lighted room does create a fairly nice result. If Amazon could allow turning the frontlight completely off, it would be even better. A lighted case for the Kindle PW might be the solution for me, because I don't like using a table lamp or the frontlight, but do like the PW best otherwise. Maybe even a small penlight or something might be suitable, I did use something similar with Kindle 2 way back when.


I gave this idea of using the Kindle Paperwhite, frontlight to a minimum, a go with my existing Amazon lighted leather cover for Kindle 4. Of course the PW won't fit, and the unadjustable light on this cover is far from optimal anyway, but placing the PW on top gives some idea how its display would behave in such a case. I took the thus-modded PW with me into a dark room and the result looks good. The frontlight disappears completely and while the lighted cover doesn't generate an uniform light, instead it hotspots on the top as usual for these lights, but it also doesn't create any other distinct unevenness and most importantly for me it also lights up the bezels and surroundings a bit so it feels more like reading a book under a light than reading a screen... On the downside, compared to the Kindle 4, the fonts do seem less black on the PW than on the Kindle 4 even in this setup. And I think having the option to turn off the frontlight alltogether would be best. Perhaps Amazon could add that and tweak the PW fonts to become darker in a future update. The other downside to this, in my view, is that the PW couldn't power the light like the baby Kindle 4/5 can, so adding batteries would add bulk to any such case.










I think Kindle PW with a lighted cover could be a good solution for some. Use the frontlight in well-lit situations and the light on the cover when reading in complete darkness, especially if one could find a case with an adjustable light... Amazon, an option to turn off the frontlight and darker fonts, please.


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## northofdivision

If you have the k4 non touch, you can always just use your lighted case on the new basic 69$ kindle. exact same specs and ppi. have gotten a few threads on how much better the new basic is in regard to font and contrast than the k4 nt which i have and think is great. I saw this tip on another thread but you can just flip the orientation for the screen and have the light come up rather than down which may be better for you. 69 dollars for the smallest/lightest amazon ereader on the market (and supposedly great screen) is a steal (seems completely negligible when viewing the specs but holding the PW in one hand and my k4 nt is very noticeable and i find myself saying "if only the PW was this small and light).


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## Gone 9/21/18

I  don't dislike the PW and I'm keeping it. I had enough Amazon reward points that I paid less for it and the case than for a Baby Kindle. However, there are a couple of things that keep me from being truly happy with it - the Airplane feature is a PITA to get to and if I'd known you couldn't go forward or back a chapter easily I wouldn't have bought it. My guess is I'd be happier with a Baby Kindle except, and it's a big except, I live way out in the country, have no wifi unless I drive 15 miles, and need 3G. So I'm keeping the PW and using it in preference to the K3 right now because of size and the light for reading in bed.


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## mlewis78

I bought the new $69 kindle yesterday and love it.  My K4 (silver) is still good, so I didn't have to buy the new one, but I love the darker black text and the black frame.  I use a clip-on light for most of my at-home reading, but I don't take out the clip-on light, because it turns itself on in my bag.  

A lot of people don't like the Mighty Bright Xtra Flex 2 (they say it's too heavy), but this is the only one that is bright enough for me.  I can position it perfectly for even light on the screen.  I appreciate this light all the more after seeing customer photos of the PW lighted screen.  I have had kandles that don't work at all now (bulbs burned out).  I also have the Verso-like Nook clip on light, but it's not bright enough for me and the short neck has limited range.

I also have the K4 Amazon lighted cover.  I find it OK but not as satisfactory as the MB XtraFlex2.  Light is a little uneven and shines in my eyes if the Kindle tilts forward a little.  I occasionally use it anyway, mostly for reading away from home (although most of that reading is on the subway, bus or office breaks where there is enough light not to use the cover's light).


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## FearIndex

Thank you for the great tips on lights, cases and experiences on the new small Kindle. I agree, it sounds promising and I look forward to sharing my experiences on that compared to the PW.

As for anyone wondering why I don't go back to an older Kindle instead of PW, I wasn't completely satisfied with the Kindle 4. The cover was the biggest culprit, but also the contrast and the looks good be better. I used it anyway, but it was a bit mixed bag. The last generation I was fully satisfied with was Kindle 3, which I have given away to family. But I do prefer now the smaller form factor of non-keyboard Kindles anyway, so it isn't as simple as trying to get that back or buying a new Kindle 3 Keyboard. I was really looking forward to the PW as something that would move me forwards from the lackluster Kindle 4 experience (granted, most of which was because of the poor Amazon lighted cover that generation), while keeping that small form-factor... Last year I kind of settled on the Kindle 4, but now I don't want to settle with the PW or with the 4, but finally find a solution I'm fully satisfied with. So, I will try to get it either with the $69 Kindle and/or with new cases and lights. Or maybe something else someone suggests here. 

Oh the darn progress of technology, I was perfectly happy with my Kindle 3 back then...


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## xtine911

Interesting thread  

I've read of a lot of people with otherwise "defective" screens still enjoying using their PWs during the day. I wonder if by using an external booklight at night, but still turning up the built-in PW lights, a nice white screen could be achieved, sans the pink/green blobs?


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## FearIndex

Well that was quick, my black "$69" Kindle just walzed in. I'll start comparing it with the Kindle 4 and Kindle PW later today. It will take until next week before I'll get my new third-party case for it, though, but I at least I can report my experiences on the reader itself - which is probably most interesting for any readers here anyway. Externally the new "$69" baby Kindle is packaged just like Kindle Paperwhite, in that same kind of black Kindle box. The side simply reads Kindle instead of Kindle Paperwhite. It also shipped without any external packaging in Europe too, just that black box.



xtine911 said:


> I've read of a lot of people with otherwise "defective" screens still enjoying using their PWs during the day. I wonder if by using an external booklight at night, but still turning up the built-in PW lights, a nice white screen could be achieved, sans the pink/green blobs?


I will try that later too. That's a good question.


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## xtine911

FearIndex said:


> I will try that later too. That's a good question.


I hope it works  I'm in a similar boat as you, in that I have a PW coming to me overseas via a forwarder, so returning a "defective" Paperwhite would be a huge and expensive hassle. I'm thinking I may just live with whatever is sent to me, maybe using it with a book light as well, if the screen does turn out to have problems.


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## JamescCamp

This may be blasphemy on this forum, but ...

I like having a full tablet. That way I can use the Kindle app, but also other e-book apps to get a different selection of books, and I can read comics and magazines on it.

I was hoping Kindle was going to release a colour e-ink device this fall, but for some reason they still think the market 'isn't ready for it', and so I bought a Nexus 7 instead. I love it.


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## Ann in Arlington

JamescCamp said:


> This may be blasphemy on this forum, but ...
> 
> I like having a full tablet. That way I can use the Kindle app, but also other e-book apps to get a different selection of books, and I can read comics and magazines on it.
> 
> I was hoping Kindle was going to release a colour e-ink device this fall, but for some reason they still think the market 'isn't ready for it', and so I bought a Nexus 7 instead. I love it.


My understanding is that it's not so much that the market isn't ready, as the technology isn't. People will expect certain things with color -- video, image manipulation, etc -- that isn't yet possible with color eInk.


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## HappyGuy

Since I don't often read in bed, I use my good ole KK for much of my reading. For those times when I just HAVE to read in bed I use my Fire HD. Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones, but I've never had a problem reading on a back-lit screen, although I don't really enjoy reading on my computer monitor. So, as an alternative, might I suggest the Fire HD?


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## TraumaDoll

Having participated in a similar discussion elsewhere, some thoughts:

--If you like and can read books on tablet, possibly a Kindle Fire, or the iPad Mini should be announced officially on Oct 23 (probably worth waiting to buy until then, as they may be priced very competitively)

--Kobo Glo has decent reviews and should be available in US soon (fingers crossed). Yes, this would mean needing to 'free' your Amazon books and may not be worth the effort for some, but the lighting does seem better.

For those keeping older Kindles, I've seen the following lights recommended a lot:

http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Bright-TravelFlex-Light-Silver/dp/193500932X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350575848&sr=8-1&keywords=travelflex

http://www.amazon.com/Accessories-Eluminator-Booklight-Universal-un1-e3-abs-w/dp/B0080A56RE/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350575862&sr=1-3&keywords=m-edge+e-luminator+book+light

(I think you can get this one for free if you buy a case directly from M-Edge)

This one looks interesting if you want a light powered by your Kindle:

http://www.amazon.com/Grantwood-Technology-SimpleLight-Attaches-Keyboard/dp/B0057WTEWQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350575941&sr=8-1&keywords=kindle+keyboard+light

(Think Amazon lighted case but cheaper and no case.)

My personal solution for now has been to revert to using my Kindle Keyboard, snagged a new case and the TravelFlex light linked above. It's a little bulky but it was a cheap interim solution.


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## teralpar

JamescCamp said:


> This may be blasphemy on this forum, but ...
> 
> I like having a full tablet. That way I can use the Kindle app, but also other e-book apps to get a different selection of books, and I can read comics and magazines on it.
> 
> I was hoping Kindle was going to release a colour e-ink device this fall, but for some reason they still think the market 'isn't ready for it', and so I bought a Nexus 7 instead. I love it.


I feel the same way about reading on my Nexus 7. For me, it's much easier on my eyes than the original Kindle Fire. On the original KF, I could only read on the Kindle app using the Sepia background, the white background was hurting my eyes. On my N7, I can read fine on the white background, it almost reminds me of reading on the Paperwhite, except the light on the N7 is even. Of course, in a lit room or outside I still read on my beloved Kindle Touch. So buying a PW would be unneccessary for me at this point.


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## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> Well that was quick, my black "$69" Kindle just walzed in. I'll start comparing it with the Kindle 4 and Kindle PW later today. It will take until next week before I'll get my new third-party case for it, though, but I at least I can report my experiences on the reader itself - which is probably most interesting for any readers here anyway. Externally the new "$69" baby Kindle is packaged just like Kindle Paperwhite, in that same kind of black Kindle box. The side simply reads Kindle instead of Kindle Paperwhite. It also shipped without any external packaging in Europe too, just that black box.


I will have to leave comparisons of the new $69 Kindle, Kindle 4 and PW until later, but I did unwrap the new baby Kindle I got as a potential solution to my PW disappointment. First impressions: Packed like PW. It also is very nice black and, boy, after all the question marks about the screen on the PW... This one is just perfect. Not perfect in the sense that PW can be, you know with just slight issues, but perfect in the sense true e-ink experience is perfect. No questions asked perfect. Perfect.

We are off to a good start, the new baby Kindle and I. Will report back with details later on.


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## CAR

FearIndex said:


> I will have to leave comparisons of the new $69 Kindle, Kindle 4 and PW until later, but I did unwrap the new baby Kindle I got as a potential solution to my PW disappointment. First impressions: Packed like PW. It also is very nice black and, boy, after all the question marks about the screen on the PW... This one is just perfect. Not perfect in the sense that PW can be, you know with just slight issues, but perfect in the sense true e-ink experience is perfect. No questions asked perfect. Perfect.
> 
> We are off to a good start, the new baby Kindle and I. Will report back with details later on.


Wow your description of your new $69 Kindle reminded me of my old Sony PRS-505. I had to go find it again.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare)

ellenoc said:


> I don't dislike the PW and I'm keeping it. I had enough Amazon reward points that I paid less for it and the case than for a Baby Kindle. However, there are a couple of things that keep me from being truly happy with it - the Airplane feature is a PITA to get to and if I'd known *you couldn't go forward or back a chapter easily * I wouldn't have bought it. My guess is I'd be happier with a Baby Kindle except, and it's a big except, I live way out in the country, have no wifi unless I drive 15 miles, and need 3G. So I'm keeping the PW and using it in preference to the K3 right now because of size and the light for reading in bed.


I think it's been discussed before but isnt the chapter thing a software issue? If so, with enough complaints they could send out a fix for it. I would like that too.


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## mooshie78

Lursa (aka 9MMare) said:


> I think it's been discussed before but isnt the chapter thing a software issue? If so, with enough complaints they could send out a fix for it. I would like that too.


Yeah, it's a software thing. If they bring it back, hopefully its something you can toggle on and off. I don't like swiping up/down to jump chapters as I rarely need to jump chapters and it's too easily to do accidentally. And it's nice being able to swipe up/down to get a speck of dust of the screen without jumping chapters/pages too.

But some people do jump chapters a lot, so they should add an easier option for doing so for those who need it.


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## berfles

I kind of want to get the $69 Kindle to "upgrade" from my K3 keyboard, but I think I'd miss the keyboard...  I do use it from time to time, and moving around with a directional pad seems like it would be a complete pain.

Are there any comparisons between the K3 keyboard and $69 Kindle screen?


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## sparklemotion

berfles said:


> Are there any comparisons between the K3 keyboard and $69 Kindle screen?


The new $69 kindle has much better contrast.


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## FearIndex

So, starting my experiences with the new $69 Kindle vs. Kindle PW and other models. For brevity, I will name the new black "$69" dollar non-touch Kindle as the "Kindle 5". I will refer to the previous generation, grey "$79" Kindle as the "Kindle 4".

The box:

As I said before, Kindle 5 comes in black, angled and rip-sealed a box very similar to Kindle PW - so it has the dark look, instead of the brown boxes of past generations. On the side reads Kindle on shiny black, instead of Kindle Paperwhite. Inside the USB cord (white) and a couple of pieces of paper, just like on the PW.

The looks:

At first glance the Kindle 5 is just like the Kindle 4, only black, with a white Kindle logo on top (where as Kindle 4 is two-tone grey with a grey logo). The buttons are the same: power on the bottom, two page change buttons on each side and four buttons + the five-way controller on top.

From the top Kindle 5 looks a little shinier, where as the Kindle 4 is bit more matte. Things are reversed on the back, which is more matte on the Kindle 5. The black back of Kindle 5 feels a little more rubbery than the grey-painted back of Kindle 4, there may be either a change of material or coloring process on the back.

Kindle 5 colors are pretty much like those on the Kindle Paperwhite, although PW has a rubbery edge, where as Kindle 5 edge is plastic. Of the three, the grey Kindle 4 seems least prone to fingerprints, Kindle PW most prone - and Kindle 5 in between. It is possible that the bezel on Kindle 5 is the same material as Kindle PW, but Kindle 5 did feel a little less prone to fingerprinting than PW.

Overall, the differences between Kindle 4, 5 and even PW are very subtle. PW is a little larger and certainly heavier, but overall all three devices look very similar next to each other. I do prefer the dark, singularly black look of the Kindle 5 and Kindle PW over the grey fourth generation, the two-tone grey is a little busy on the previous generation. The fifth generation black may look a little more plasticy than the fourth generation grey due to being a little shinier, but it also looks more durable and in the end, probably helps the screen pop out better too.

Amazon lighted leather cover:

Kindle 5 obviously fits the (disappointing) black Kindle 4 lighted leather case from Amazon. The holder part of the case is black or dark grey, much darker than the grey Kindle 4, but lighter than the Kindle 5. So the lighted leather case fits both Kindle 4 and Kindle 5 equally well or bad, however you want to look at it, neither blend in with the case colors. Not that it really would bother anyone. If you like the Amazon lighted cover for Kindle 4, it will work equally well with the Kindle 5 too. (I don't like the case on either one and am looking forward to receiving an alternative I have ordered. More on that when it gets here.)

Safe to say, the black Amazon leather case for Kindle PW is miles above and beyond the Kindle 4 leather case. The official PW case is very high quality and the magnetic closing mechanism (which turns Kindle PW on and off as needed) is obviously a great bonus over the Kindle 4/5 case, which has no such feature and is inferior in quality too. So, if you can live with the PW and without a case light, the Kindle PW leather cover from Amazon is certainly wondeful.

The software:

The new Kindle 5 runs software version 4.1.0, exactly the same as has been updated to my grey Kindle 4 - so functionally expect these devices to be identical. Of course this version is a far cry from the Kindle PW software, missing cover view, missing changeable fonts and missing X-Ray. It does have parental controls and panel view for comics, though, but it is a much simpler, more traditional Kindle experience. If you want the latest goodies, you better keep your eyes on the touch-enabled Kindles.

Kindle 4/5 does have some things Kindle PW doesn't, though, such as easy chapter skip, reading progress bar on the bottom and four-way screen rotation, since Amazon has decided to simplify certain software features in the PW.

The screen:

This was, of course, the (at least temporary) deal-breaker on the Kindle PW for me. I like the pure e-ink experience without integrated lights - and the screen-likeness - adding those introduced to e-ink. Obviously Kindle 5 is pure e-ink, no capacitive touch layer or frontlight light guide layer like on the Kindle PW. Just that magical e-ink right there, on top of the screen.

When the frontlight is set to minimum on the PW in a well-lit room, it doesn't really look all that different compared to the Kindle 4 and 5, so those additional layers on top aren't that much of distraction when the frontlight is not visible. The topmost layer on all three Kindles shines under a light in a very similar way, so in a lighted room without the Kindle PW frontlight glaring, they look quite the same.

Differences in the screens start to appear when looking closer. Compared to Kindle 4/5, the Kindle PW screen, even with the frontlight to minimum, looks more washed out. The fonts are not nearly as black on the PW. Although font-to-font differences are part of the reason, I doubt they are the whole reason. It seems that the higher resolution and those two additional layers on top of the PW screen are resulting in a lower contrast on the PW compared to the higher-contrast Kindle 4 and 5.

Comparing the new Kindle 5 to Kindle 4, I can confirm the differences many have reported here. While the technical specs are roughly the same, it is clear that there is more than just a bezel-color change going on. The black bezel on Kindle 5 does increase the contrast somewhat, but the text on Kindle 5 is definitely darker than on Kindle 4 and darkest of the bunch here. (My old Kindle 2 looks really washed out next to the Kindle 5.)

I don't know how much it is because of a new screen or font adjustments on the Kindle 5 - I'm guessing it is a new screen, because the software on my  Kindle 4 and 5 is the same. 

The verdict:

I am yet to get a satisfactory reading lamp for either the Kindle 5 or Kindle PW (if I'm ever going to get such a thing), so comparisons in the dark will have to wait. I will also do comparisons with Kindle 3 Keyboard and more PW testing later on, as has been suggested above. But for now, in a lighted room, which one of these feels the best when reading?

Holding in front of me, without covers, all three: Kindle PW, Kindle 5 and Kindle 4... it is clear that two of these look better and one is the best. Unfortunately for the PW, the ones that look better are Kindle 4 and 5. Even though the PW can be made whiter by turning the light up, it still doesn't really feel white, as much as glowing - and the e-ink magic, to me, is lost. Kindle 4/5 may be "pocket book drab" in the color of their page, but the great contrast, black text, flawless screen (no light unevenness to think about, like on the PW) just put the baby Kindles miles above the PW. They are just that much better.

The PW does have an edge when displaying pictures due to the added resolution, but when displaying text it seems to loose that - the text on Kindle 4/5 looks sharper, crisper, where as the added resolution on the PW seems to just make the text feel more shallow somehow.

As for the best of the bunch, clearly Kindle 5 is superior to all of the three. The difference compared to Kindle 4 is distinct enough. Whether it is the bezel color or the screen or whatever, definitely the blackest text can be had on the new Kindle 5.

Wow. It's just wonderful. I better go read now! I'll look into lighted cases, PW under lighting, Kindle 3 Keyboard comparisons and so forth later, when I get the goods and the times.


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## maries

FearIndex - my husband and I both have K3s and I thought of getting him a Paperwhite but not so sure between the screen issues and lack of page turn buttons.  Your review of the K4/5 sounds like this might be a better upgrade to test out but I have some questions.  It is harder to start up with a WiFi only compared to one with 3G?  Often I buy books on line and have them sent to my kindle, but if you want to purchase through the Kindle, how do you navigate on the K4/5 without a keyboard or touchscreen?  Thanks.


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## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> So, starting my experiences with the new $69 Kindle vs. Kindle PW and other models. For brevity, I will name the new black "$69" dollar non-touch Kindle as the "Kindle 5". I will refer to the previous generation, grey "$79" Kindle as the "Kindle 4".
> 
> ...
> 
> Differences in the screens start to appear when looking closer. Compared to Kindle 4/5, the Kindle PW screen, even with the frontlight to minimum, looks more washed out. The fonts are not nearly as black on the PW. Although font-to-font differences are part of the reason, I doubt they are the whole reason. It seems that the higher resolution and those two additional layers on top of the PW screen are resulting in a lower contrast on the PW compared to the higher-contrast Kindle 4 and 5.


Here is a picture of my Kindle Paperwhite (left) and the new $69 Kindle "5" (right), showing a page out of The Hobbit:










Font settings are default in both books and they were loaded from the cloud at the same time, so they are the same edition.

The frontlight is at its minimum on the PW and the room is lit by natural light falling slightly on both devices.

Font in Paperwhite: Caecilia, size 4. Font in Kindle: Regular, size 3.


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## FearIndex

maries said:


> FearIndex - my husband and I both have K3s and I thought of getting him a Paperwhite but not so sure between the screen issues and lack of page turn buttons. Your review of the K4/5 sounds like this might be a better upgrade to test out but I have some questions. It is harder to start up with a WiFi only compared to one with 3G? Often I buy books on line and have them sent to my kindle, but if you want to purchase through the Kindle, how do you navigate on the K4/5 without a keyboard or touchscreen? Thanks.


Setting up the Wi-Fi, assuming you have Wi-Fi set up at your home is just a matter of selecting the network on startup and entering the password. Couldn't be simpler. Of course entering text on the five-way controller is slower than a real keyboard, but for such short phrases such as passwords and search words I'd say it works very well. The lack of keyboard was never a problem for me on the Kindle 4 and Kindle 5 seems the same.

Purchasing books on the Kindle 5 (based on my experiences on the nearly identical Kindle 4) is very simple. Click to the store via a menu, enter a partial (or full if you wish) search word and the scroll the list that appears with the arrow keys. Not really a problem of any sort. There is an on-screen keyboard you navigate with the five-way controller, selecting one letter at a time. It works well for what it is.

If you want to write notes or use the experimental web browser for, say, writing on KindleBoards.com then I'd recommend against the Kindle 5. You can do that too, but obviously writing is slow for such purposes. But if your need is simply the occasional search word to the Kindle Store (or that Wi-Fi password), I'd say from personal experience you are good to go with the Kindle 5. Personally I mostly need just the page change buttons.

I had my issues with Kindle 4, with the Amazon lighted cover I didn't like and the partial screen refreshes that were the only option in the original software - the latter (and more) has been changed in software updates since and Kindle 5 is much more of a mature device to get now, than Kindle 4 was - or Kindle PW is either. Kindle 5 seems sort of fool-proof. It just works, it is the pinnacle of the traditional Kindle. (I'd recommend some other cover, though, because the Amazon Kindle 4/5 cover light shines in your eye too easily and the build quality of that cover just isn't worth the asking-price.)

As for 3G, obviously a Wi-Fi only version won't work in places were 3G is but Wi-Fi isn't available, so that depends on your needs. Personally I didn't find the lack of 3G a major issue on my Kindle 3 or 4 (I have it on 2 and PW, but for no reason really, I hardly ever use the 3G).


----------



## FearIndex

One more thing: Kindle 4, 5 and Kindle PW do not have support for audiobooks, text-to-speech or audio of any kind. If that is important, then they are of course a no go.

But for pure reading, $69 Kindle 5 does seem the most promising for me at the moment...


----------



## tiktokman

My $69 Kindle (replacement for two defective PWs) is out for delivery today.


----------



## FearIndex

Continuing with my comparisons of the new $69 Kindle "5" with other Kindles. My Kindle 4 and Kindle PW comparison is a few messages up here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129956.msg1921055.html#msg1921055

This time I have the Kindle 3 aka Kindle Keyboard black (or graphite) version to compare to, my old Kindle that I have given to a family member and missed a bit during the past year of lackluster Kindle 4 experience (mostly due to the Amazon lighted case).

The look:

Kindle 3, this dark version (it was also available in white back in the day), is still a lot lighter than the black Kindle 5 and Kindle Paperwhite are. Kindle 3 is a little easier on they eyes as a color, but also doesn't give as much contrast next to the screen as the pitch black Kindle 5 does. Also the Amazon Kindle logo on Kindle 3 is more grey than the whiter Kindle logo on the new Kindle 5. So, the new model is a bit more "striking" in appearance, where as Kindle 3 comes across a little softer with its softer hues and rounder corners. Both look good though, Kindle 3 is still a remarkably good looking piece of kit.

Amazon lighted leather cover:

In my view Kindle 3 has the far superior Amazon lighted leather cover compared to Kindle 4 and Kindle 5. The leather on the front and back is much better, the case is more substantial (Kindle 4/5 case is a bit of a joke here), it has a closing rubber band (Kindle 4/5 case doesn't)... and the light on the Kindle 3 does not shine in your eye when reading in bed (Kindle 4/5 lighted case shines disturbingly in your eye). So, if you had the Amazon lighted leather cover for Kindle 3, don't expect the new case to be as good. It isn't. The only thing better about the new Kindle 4/5 case is that the Kindle sits tight inside it, not moving in those metal clips like the Kindle 3 does in its case.

Kindle PW non-lighted Amazon leather case is high quality, though, so if you opt for the PW then that is a fine case.

The software:

Kindle 3 also received the "Kindle 3.4" software update recently (roughly equivalent to the new Kindle 4.1 on Kindle 4/5), so software-wise the Kindle 5 and Kindle 3 are pretty much equal when updated. Of course Kindle 3 has some features Kindle 5 does not, namely audiobooks, text-to-speech and the experimental MP3 player, because the new Kindle 5 lacks any kind of audio hardware (Kindle 3 has both a speaker and a headset connector).

Kindle 3 does not have, even after the software updates, the partial screen refersh option Kindle 4 introduced and Kindle PW and Kindle 5 have too. Later Kindles do the "blink" between pages only after each six pages or so, unless you turn every page refresh on in the settings. Some may like this and if they do, Kindle 5 certainly offers this bonus over Kindle 3.

The screen:

Kindle 3.4 software update included new, darker fonts, so the difference of contrast between Kindle 3 and Kindle 5 is not quite as much as it was when comparing the Kindle 3.1 software to Kindle 5. Still, Kindle 3 has nothing on Kindle 5 when it comes to the screen. Kindle 5 clearly has superior black text. Otherwise the color of the Kindle 5 background looks similar to Kindle 3, so both still retain that greyness in the background so inherent to e-ink.

Disturbingly, Kindle 3 contrast seems better than that of Kindle PW. Certainly not glowing praise (no pun intended) for PW...


----------



## FearIndex

xtine911 said:


> I've read of a lot of people with otherwise "defective" screens still enjoying using their PWs during the day. I wonder if by using an external booklight at night, but still turning up the built-in PW lights, a nice white screen could be achieved, sans the pink/green blobs?


OK, so since the other solution (aside $69 Kindle 5) I have been researching is "fixing" the Paperwhite screen, using a lighted case or a clip-on light... I tested this tonight as well.

Indeed, you can overpower the frontlight light guide with an external light and the result will be more even than without. One of the main light uniformity issues I have with the PW is that the bottom of the page, when reading in the dark, is much whiter than the top of the page. When you have a clip-on or case light lighting up the top of the page, the result is much more even, even if the frontlight is in use. It probably won't hide the LED shadows on the bottom of the page, but it will help hide other issues with the light guide uniformity. Also, because now the bezel is lighted as well by the external light, it is less taxing and less screen-like to look at the device in darkness, because the whole face of the device lights up, not just the display.

So, I'd chalk this up as a "potential" solution for some people. I have had moments when tuning a little PW frontlight up in good ambient lighting really adds a nice effect, or more whiteness plus more light on the screen to actually help reading, without being disturbing e-ink-wise. So, in darkness if one adds an external light (either in a case or some other clip-on light or a table light) with sufficient lighting power, it should help in a similar manner.

That said, I think the best potential for me, with the PW, would be to be able to turn off the frontlight completely and use only a lighted case. Although, now, considering how much better I see the $69 Kindle 5 being contrast-wise, I have a hard time seeing myself returning to the PW.


----------



## maries

I plan to stop at Best Buy sometime to see the Paperwhite but thinking of just sticking with the KK for now.  I like the physical page turn buttons for reading on the KK.  My hope is that the next Paperwhite will have these plus they will have worked out some of display issues.  I get excted about new technology but don't want to jump for something new that isn't quite what I want or still has bugs to work out.  Maybe the mini-ipad announcement next week will distract me from even thinking about the Paperwhite.


----------



## FearIndex

One more report for today. I plopped the $69 Kindle 5 inside the Kindle 4 Amazon lighter leather case, to tide me over until a hopefully better case arrives. It actually sits in it a little better than Kindle 4, the page buttons are not hindered by the case as they are on Kindle 4 a little, and the black frame feels more at home inside the quite black case (although the case bezel is not quite as dark as Kindle 5). Anyway, the Kindle 4 official case works great with the Kindle 5, if you like that case that is. I will read on this until the new third-party case arrives...

So, it is dark here and I turned on the Kindle Paperwhite and the Kindle 5 (with the case light) on, side by side. There was one distant light on in the room, so it wasn't pitch dark, but very dark in the corner I was in. I pushed the PW up to 24/24 brightness to see how these two compared.

While the PW does send a more similar amount of light over the full page, there really is no contest in my eyes. The text on the Kindle 5 is super-black and the case light does make the background seem whiter too. While the PW page is fairly white (although somewhat uneven) thanks to the frontlight, the text is simply washed out in comparison. I dropped the PW frontlight to half (12/24) and the washing out of the text became a little less, but now the page was also much darker than the Kindle 5 under the case light. And the blacks still looked grey or even blue on the PW.

Frankly, in my opinion the Kindle 5 is so superior under even this crappy Amazon case light that there is no contest in my eyes. I will see if I can capture the effect on camera, it does seem a little hard to photograph though. Somehow it is like the case light just makes Kindle 5 black seem blacker, whereas on the PW the frontlight just makes its black seem a little glowing and vague - not a good thing when the blacks on the PW are more grey of the two even without the frontlight glowing.

By the way, there is some additional discussion the $69 Kindle 5 here, for those who are interested in it and missed these: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129685.0.html


----------



## larryb52

i like e ink and like the k5 a lot & to be honest since I have yet to find a device I don't want   I'll probably reorder the PW as I did like it for its over all effect, it however did not hold up at night...I have been warned by my wife not to get the ipad mini , I guess I better listen, I like taking naps on the sofa but don't want to sleep there at night with the cat...


----------



## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> So, it is dark here and I turned on the Kindle Paperwhite and the Kindle 5 (with the case light) on, side by side. There was one distant light on in the room, so it wasn't pitch dark, but very dark in the corner I was in. I pushed the PW up to 24/24 brightness to see how these two compared.
> 
> While the PW does send a more similar amount of light over the full page, there really is no contest in my eyes. The text on the Kindle 5 is super-black and the case light does make the background seem whiter too. While the PW page is fairly white (although somewhat uneven) thanks to the frontlight, the text is simply washed out in comparison. I dropped the PW frontlight to half (12/24) and the washing out of the text became a little less, but now the page was also much darker than the Kindle 5 under the case light. And the blacks still looked grey or even blue on the PW.
> 
> Frankly, in my opinion the Kindle 5 is so superior under even this crappy Amazon case light that there is no contest in my eyes. I will see if I can capture the effect on camera, it does seem a little hard to photograph though. Somehow it is like the case light just makes Kindle 5 black seem blacker, whereas on the PW the frontlight just makes its black seem a little glowing and vague - not a good thing when the blacks on the PW are more grey of the two even without the frontlight glowing.


This is how it looks, managed to get it on "film". Paperwhite left, $69 Kindle 5 right in the Amazon lighted cover (for Kindle 4/5). (PW propped up to same height as Kindle 5 in cover for the photo.)










Much blacker text on the $69 Kindle 5.


----------



## Leslie

The text on your PW is much lighter than mine.

L


----------



## Raffeer

I returned my PW today when I finally accepted the fact that I really preferred my K4. Lighting is not an issue in my life. DTB's worked in planes with an overhead beam, K4's do also. In my bedroom I prefer a bedside lamp. The lack of a dedicated Home screen annoyed me and although I did like the time estimates they were not enough to make up for the lack of buttons. Reading on my Fire HD is not a problem although the weight can be a turnoff. I have a cover with an easel back so it's my choice while eating.
I'm waiting for Amazon's next best thing. The November Fire I guess.


----------



## mooshie78

Leslie said:


> The text on your PW is much lighter than mine.


Same here. May just be the picture though I guess.

I will say the text on mine is a tad lighter than on my K3 when I compared them side by side. So I do think the touch and/or light layers make a tad of difference. But it wasn't enough to bother me given how much better I like the lit screen compared to having to use external light and deal with ambient shadows etc.


----------



## xtine911

FearIndex said:


> Indeed, you can overpower the frontlight light guide with an external light and the result will be more even than without. One of the main light uniformity issues I have with the PW is that the bottom of the page, when reading in the dark, is much whiter than the top of the page. When you have a clip-on or case light lighting up the top of the page, the result is much more even, even if the frontlight is in use. It probably won't hide the LED shadows on the bottom of the page, but it will help hide other issues with the light guide uniformity. Also, because now the bezel is lighted as well by the external light, it is less taxing and less screen-like to look at the device in darkness, because the whole face of the device lights up, not just the display.


Thank you for the update, it's good to know that at least there's a "workaround" to fix the lighting issues, even if having to use an external light seems counterintuitive to what the PW is supposed to be.


----------



## Leslie

Raffeer said:


> The lack of a dedicated Home screen annoyed me


Not sure what this means? Can you explain?

L


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Leslie said:


> Not sure what this means? Can you explain?
> 
> L


I think Raffeer is referring to the lack of a home screen button; the fact that, while in a book, one must tap on the top of the screen and then the home button.

Betsy


----------



## bookie

FearIndex said:


> Continuing with my comparisons of the new $69 Kindle "5" with other Kindles. My Kindle 4 and Kindle PW comparison is a few messages up here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129956.msg1921055.html#msg1921055
> 
> This time I have the Kindle 3 aka Kindle Keyboard black (or graphite) version to compare to, my old Kindle that I have given to a family member and missed a bit during the past year of lackluster Kindle 4 experience (mostly due to the Amazon lighted case).
> 
> The look:
> 
> Kindle 3, this dark version (it was also available in white back in the day), is still a lot lighter than the black Kindle 5 and Kindle Paperwhite are. Kindle 3 is a little easier on they eyes as a color, but also doesn't give as much contrast next to the screen as the pitch black Kindle 5 does. Also the Amazon Kindle logo on Kindle 3 is more grey than the whiter Kindle logo on the new Kindle 5. So, the new model is a bit more "striking" in appearance, where as Kindle 3 comes across a little softer with its softer hues and rounder corners. Both look good though, Kindle 3 is still a remarkably good looking piece of kit.
> 
> Amazon lighted leather cover:
> 
> In my view Kindle 3 has the far superior Amazon lighted leather cover compared to Kindle 4 and Kindle 5. The leather on the front and back is much better, the case is more substantial (Kindle 4/5 case is a bit of a joke here), it has a closing rubber band (Kindle 4/5 case doesn't)... and the light on the Kindle 3 does not shine in your eye when reading in bed (Kindle 4/5 lighted case shines disturbingly in your eye). So, if you had the Amazon lighted leather cover for Kindle 3, don't expect the new case to be as good. It isn't. The only thing better about the new Kindle 4/5 case is that the Kindle sits tight inside it, not moving in those metal clips like the Kindle 3 does in its case.
> 
> Kindle PW non-lighted Amazon leather case is high quality, though, so if you opt for the PW then that is a fine case.
> 
> The software:
> 
> Kindle 3 also received the "Kindle 3.4" software update recently (roughly equivalent to the new Kindle 4.1 on Kindle 4/5), so software-wise the Kindle 5 and Kindle 3 are pretty much equal when updated. Of course Kindle 3 has some features Kindle 5 does not, namely audiobooks, text-to-speech and the experimental MP3 player, because the new Kindle 5 lacks any kind of audio hardware (Kindle 3 has both a speaker and a headset connector).
> 
> Kindle 3 does not have, even after the software updates, the partial screen refersh option Kindle 4 introduced and Kindle PW and Kindle 5 have too. Later Kindles do the "blink" between pages only after each six pages or so, unless you turn every page refresh on in the settings. Some may like this and if they do, Kindle 5 certainly offers this bonus over Kindle 3.
> 
> The screen:
> 
> Kindle 3.4 software update included new, darker fonts, so the difference of contrast between Kindle 3 and Kindle 5 is not quite as much as it was when comparing the Kindle 3.1 software to Kindle 5. Still, Kindle 3 has nothing on Kindle 5 when it comes to the screen. Kindle 5 clearly has superior black text. Otherwise the color of the Kindle 5 background looks similar to Kindle 3, so both still retain that greyness in the background so inherent to e-ink.
> 
> Disturbingly, Kindle 3 contrast seems better than that of Kindle PW. Certainly not glowing praise (no pun intended) for PW...


 Wow! Thank you for your very detailed review! I have been thinking about updating from KK to K5 (not interested in PW for many reasons). I now see NO reason to do so and will go kiss my KK and give it some over-due love it so deserves!


----------



## berfles

I went to Best Buy last night to see this new display and compare it, and of course some moron broke the display unit already


----------



## FearIndex

bookie said:


> Wow! Thank you for your very detailed review! I have been thinking about updating from KK to K5 (not interested in PW for many reasons). I now see NO reason to do so and will go kiss my KK and give it some over-due love it so deserves!


Thank you. 

Yes, the reasons to upgrade from Kindle 3 to Kindlle 5 are smaller form-factor and much blacker text in $69 Kindle 5 - but other than that, considering all the features (like audio and hardware keyboard) Kindle 3 has, there are certainly plenty of reasons to stick to Kindle 3 too!


----------



## FearIndex

xtine911 said:


> Thank you for the update, it's good to know that at least there's a "workaround" to fix the lighting issues, even if having to use an external light seems counterintuitive to what the PW is supposed to be.


I think the trick with the frontlight is, use external lighting and then set the PW frontlight as low as you need to achieve whiteness, but avoid glowing and lighting the text too much. For example, when reading with overhead lighting on the PW, I have been experimenting with as low as 3-8 (out of 24) brightness settings. Enough to increase the whiteness of the background and tenderly light up the screen to provide additional lighting to help reading, if the overhead lighting is not completely sufficient. If the external lighting is good enough, any unevenness of the frontlight tend to disappear too in this case.

So definitely, there is hope with the many adjustable settings of the frontlight and experimenting with different external lights, even if the PW frontlight isn't your favourite. But of course it may turn out, like with many people, that you actually like the PW frontlight as it is. Do report back what your solution was.


----------



## xtine911

Thanks, FearIndex, will definitely keep you posted, although it may be a while before I get my hands on my Paperwhite. I'm hoping I'll like it enough to use as is too, without the need for external lights 

Thank you for your patience in testing out the PW (and the K5), I've enjoyed reading your reviews


----------



## FearIndex

mooshie78 said:


> Same here. May just be the picture though I guess.
> 
> I will say the text on mine is a tad lighter than on my K3 when I compared them side by side. So I do think the touch and/or light layers make a tad of difference. But it wasn't enough to bother me given how much better I like the lit screen compared to having to use external light and deal with ambient shadows etc.


If your Paperwhite text is a tad lighter than your Kindle 3 text, then we probably have the same darkness on PW and it is just the pictures that seem different. Because that is exactly how I'd describe the Paperwhite text darkness, a tad lighted than on my old Kindle 3.

The problem for me, now, of course is that Kindle 5 text is much darker than Kindle 3. It is really quite black, so it is much darker than Kindle PW. So now the Kindle PW text looks really washed out in comparison.


----------



## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> So, starting my experiences with the new $69 Kindle vs. Kindle PW and other models. For brevity, I will name the new black "$69" dollar non-touch Kindle as the "Kindle 5". I will refer to the previous generation, grey "$79" Kindle as the "Kindle 4".
> 
> ...


I settled down to read properly for the first time last night with the $69 Kindle 5, temporarily in the Amazon lighted leather case for Kindle 4/5. The light still shines in my eye when reading in bed and I hate that, but obviously that is why I have another lighted cover on order... Hopefully next week.

However, since this was the first time reading on Kindle 5 in my usual reading spot and time (not just testing it in front of the computer), it was interesting to see how it felt. For the past week and a half I had been reading on my Paperwhite, trying to keep the frontlight in a low setting to settle reading it in the dark. Before that, I had been using the same lighted case on the Kindle 4.

I didn't really expect that much of a difference to the previous devices, but I must report I did. Not so unexpectedly, it was relaxing to finally read without having to think about a frontlight. For some reason the Paperwhite experience has become a little bit taxing both on the eyes and emotionally, it takes away from diving into the book because I've become too conscious of the device standing between me and the text. Kindle 5 definitely has that uniform, paperlike screen, I've come to love and expect from Kindles that allows you to forget you are reading on a gadget. I can't shake it, reading on Kindle PW is a bit like reading on a tablet. Not quite, but a bit. And it doesn't help that the light isn't fully uniform either.

The unexpected bit was how black the text on Kindle 5 felt in action. I was really surprised by it, even though I had discussed it here and taken photos of it. But picking the Kindle 5 up in my usual reading place and time, really underlined how different it felt to the PW and even to Kindle 4. The text really is black. This is helped by the black bezel on Kindle 5, which lights up a little less under the case light, meaning the screen becomes lighter in comparison to the bezel - compared to the grey/silver Kindle 4. The end-result is excellent and somewhat shockingly good. I can not seem to praise this new Kindle 5 screen enough. This is how e-ink was always supposed to look like.

I will give, though, points to Kindle PW for navigation. Although I know some people lament the loss of chapter skip shortcut (which the Kindle 5 has and PW doesn't), I don't use that other than accidentally when it just is annoying. Changing pages on the PW, to me, is really nice even though I first thought removing the page change buttons sucked. Combine this with the "Go To" touchable chapter list in the PW, it is definitely easier to get around the book in PW. I got quickly back to the groove of using the buttons, but credit where credit is due - the touch interface in PW works really well. Although getting to home screen is easier on the Kindle 5, thanks to that button.


----------



## FearIndex

Since this is the "solutions thread" for dislikes in Kindle PW, one of those angles is finding solutions that fix those dislikes.

I think there are two topics that have been brought up elsewhere, that I'd like to quote here:

- One is how easily Kindle PW gets fingerprints on the bezel. Out of my Kindle 2, 3, 4, 5 and PW, the PW is easily the most prone to this, while the matte Kindle 4 and older are the least prone to this problem. If this bothers you (it doesn't bother me), aside from a case that covers the bezel, many have used "skinning" as the solution. A black skin (or any skin of course) would also allow hiding the white Kindle logo, if that is distracting for you. DecalGirl is recommended by many: http://www.decalgirl.com/

- Second is the suggested books on the home screen that appear on Kindle PW even when it is not a special offers model. I haven't tried the trick myself, but using Parental Controls to hide the Kindle Store behind a password is said to hide those book suggestions. Also, you can use List View for the home screen to hide the suggestions, although that hides all book cover pictures as well.


----------



## Leslie

FearIndex said:


> - One is how easily Kindle PW gets fingerprints on the bezel. Out of my Kindle 2, 3, 4, 5 and PW, the PW is easily the most prone to this, while the matte Kindle 4 and older are the least prone to this problem. If this bothers you (it doesn't bother me), aside from a case that covers the bezel, many have used "skinning" as the solution. A black skin (or any skin of course) would also allow hiding the white Kindle logo, if that is distracting for you. DecalGirl is recommended by many: http://www.decalgirl.com/


I agree with this. I found the black was a fingerprint magnet, more than any other Kindles have been. I put a skin on it to solve that problem. I also realized I didn't like the black so much which is why I ordered the $69 in graphite.



> - Second is the suggested books on the home screen that appear on Kindle PW even when it is not a special offers model. I haven't tried the trick myself, but using Parental Controls to hide the Kindle Store behind a password is said to hide those book suggestions. Also, you can use List View for the home screen to hide the suggestions, although that hides all book cover pictures as well.


Keep in mind that in cover view, the panel of four other books (today, "Popular Mysteries & Thrillers") only show on page 1 of the home screen. Once you swipe to the next page, you'll see six of your books, nothing else.

I find List View much more practical than cover view, IMHO.

L


----------



## Sunshine22

Leslie said:


> I find List View much more practical than cover view, IMHO.
> 
> L


Agree, especially on the home page. What would be perfect, IMO, would be if we could use list view for the home page and then cover view once we were in a collection, because I do like seeing the book covers.

And I also agree with the dislike for the black matte bezel, I much prefer the dark silver bezel of my KTouch... but a Decalgirl skin fixed that problem!


----------



## skyblue

I am returning both 3G and wifi Paperwhites due to shadows, mottling, sallow screen, short battery life, and lack of contrast. Like *Happy Guy*, I am reading on my *Fire HD*. It has a pure white background, great contrast, no shadows or mottling, and decent battery life.


----------



## mooshie78

The finger prints are a bit annoying.  I love the black bezel otherwise though.  I like black gadgets in general, and for reading I like the contrast of a black border around a white screen--be it my PW or reading on my black iPad 2.


----------



## FearIndex

Tried the parental controls on my PW and using them does hide the suggested books on the home page and allows one more row of the first page of books to show (like said above, other pages of own books always show full page, so the suggestions are only an issue for the first page). The problem with that is the Store is disabled, instead of just password protected. I had to go turn off parental controls before I could access the store.


----------



## manou

bookie said:


> Wow! Thank you for your very detailed review! I have been thinking about updating from KK to K5 (not interested in PW for many reasons). I now see NO reason to do so and will go kiss my KK and give it some over-due love it so deserves!


I'm in the same boat, I was mulling over updating from my dearly beloved KK to the PW - whenever it might be available in Hong Kong. Looking at several pictures posted and the reviews here, on mobile read as well as on Amazon I decided that there is absolutely no good reason for me to do so. I love TTS, I love the page turn buttons and I love the e-ink screen (espcially after the last firm ware update). Instead I rewarded my KK with a new name (Esmerelda Weatherwax) a new cover and a new pink clip on book light


----------



## CAR

manou said:


> I'm in the same boat, I was mulling over updating from my dearly beloved KK to the PW - whenever it might be available in Hong Kong. Looking at several pictures posted and the reviews here, on mobile read as well as on Amazon I decided that there is absolutely no good reason for me to do so. I love TTS, I love the page turn buttons and I love the e-ink screen (espcially after the last firm ware update). Instead I rewarded my KK with a new name (Esmerelda Weatherwax) a new cover and a new pink clip on book light


I just got my PW yesterday and I will be posting a review soon. One of the main reasons I ordered the PW was no book-light needed. Would never would carry a book-light with me, and hated those times when the light was just a little too dim. So the K5 would not be a option for me over my KK.


----------



## FearIndex

CAR said:


> I just got my PW yesterday and I will be posting a review soon. One of the main reasons I ordered the PW was no book-light needed. Would never would carry a book-light with me, and hated those times when the light was just a little too dim. So the K5 would not be a option for me over my KK.


I have noticed that clip-on lights are fairly popular on this forum (a newbie observation). However, I'd personally never want to use any kind of clip-on light that wasn't an integral part of the cover. It would seem like a hassle having a light with you. I'm looking for a more integrated solution personally (having used the Amazon lighted covers on Kindle 3 and Kindle 4).

So, to CAR and others opposed to carrying book lights, are you also against using Kindle covers that include an integrated light? The Amazon lighted leather cover for Kindle 3 for example, I felt, was a pretty excellent leather case, that also included a reading light for those occasions that the regular lighting wasn't enough.

This picture has the Kindle 5 (right) in the lighted Amazon case:


----------



## CAR

FearIndex said:


> I have noticed that clip-on lights are fairly popular on this forum (a newbie observation). However, I'd personally never want to use any kind of clip-on light that wasn't an integral part of the cover. It would seem like a hassle having a light with you. I'm looking for a more integrated solution personally (having used the Amazon lighted covers on Kindle 3 and Kindle 4).
> 
> So, to CAR and others opposed to carrying book lights, are you also against using Kindle covers that include an integrated light? The Amazon lighted leather cover for Kindle 3 for example, I felt, was a pretty excellent leather case, that also included a reading light for those occasions that the regular lighting wasn't enough.
> 
> This picture has the Kindle 5 (right) in the lighted Amazon case:


Yes its kinda funny, my wife has a lighted cover for her K3 and she still uses a book light sometimes. BTW on that picture was the PW light on 24? The text contrast on my PW looks much better at 18.


----------



## FearIndex

CAR, yes the PW was on 24. It is blacker on lower settings I guess, but even when the light is to minimum, the text is not as black as on $69 Kindle 5:


----------



## manou

I have Amazon's cover with the built in light as well for my KK and love it, especially when travelling. However sat home sometimes I prefer to read with a clip on light.


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## northofdivision

wow. the font darkness on the 69 dollar kindle next to the pw in that in the dark picture is crazy. the pw font looks terrible next to it. reminds me of when i first turned on my k3 and said "wow, these fonts are beautifully black." might have to sell my k4 and pick that new basic up. crap that font looks good. loving the pw screen texture though. perplexing because the ppi on the PW is 216 and the basic is the same as the k4. *shrug*


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## CAR

northofdivision said:


> wow. the font darkness on the 69 dollar kindle next to the pw in that picture is crazy. the pw font looks terrible next to it. reminds me of when i first turned on my k3 and said "wow, these fonts are beautifully black." might have to sell my k4 and pick that new basic up. crap that font looks good. perplexing because the ppi on the PW is 216 and the basic is the same as the k4. *shrug*


Well you do have a extra layer you are looking thru that is not really being used in that picture. FearIndex you had me convinced to try the $69 Kindle and the lighted cover. Until I looked at the reviews for the lighted cover... did you have problems with the page turn buttons with the cover on?


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## FearIndex

CAR said:


> Well you do have a extra layer you are looking thru that is not really being used in that picture. FearIndex you had me convinced to try the $69 Kindle and the lighted cover. Until I looked at the reviews for the lighted cover... did you have problems with the page turn buttons with the cover on?


Actually, I don't like the official Amazon Kindle 4/5 lighted cover either. I like the idea of a lighted cover that takes its power from the device - the Kindle 3 Keyboard Amazon lighted cover for example is, in my view, excellent. However, the Kindle 4/5 official lighted cover is not the best: the light has a tendency to shine in your eyes when reading in bed and the quality of the cover is a little suspect.

The cover has also interfered with the page turn buttons for some people. For me, it was really minor with the Kindle 4 - not a problem. And for some reason with Kindle 5 there is no problem at all, is it the new slicker material or is it a hair smaller or something. My main gripes with the official Kindle 4/5 cover were the light angle and the quality (not worth the price in my opinion).

I am currently thinking the TechNet lighted cover for Kindle 4/5 would be a better solution, because the light is adjustable and its design is such that it shouldn't affect the page turn buttons either, it also takes its power from the device and the reviews are good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008635H4M/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=electronics


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## FearIndex

northofdivision said:


> wow. the font darkness on the 69 dollar kindle next to the pw in that in the dark picture is crazy. the pw font looks terrible next to it. reminds me of when i first turned on my k3 and said "wow, these fonts are beautifully black." might have to sell my k4 and pick that new basic up. crap that font looks good. loving the pw screen texture though. perplexing because the ppi on the PW is 216 and the basic is the same as the k4. *shrug*


It is really perplexing. One would thing the increased resolution in the PW would allow for sharper fonts, not the other way around, but definitely the crisper fonts are in the $69 Kindle 5 - and Kindle 4 too. Even Kindle 3 Keyboard is a tad bit darker/crisper than the PW, even when the PW frontlight is to the minimum. I'd attribute a part of this on the new PW screen and the two layers (touch, light) on top of it, part on the software. So I think there is some hope that future updates bring a little darker fonts to the PW. Indeed currently Caecilia and Helvetica fonts are darker than other fonts on the PW, the one in the pictures is Caecilia though, so it is using one of the darker fonts already. Swap to Baskerville or Palatino and the PW will look even less dark than in those pictures.


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## FearIndex

I have been doing these comparisons between other Kindles in this thread...

$69 Kindle 5 vs. Kindle Paperwhite vs. $79 Kindle 4 here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129956.msg1921055.html#msg1921055
And Kindle 3 Keyboard vs. $69 Kindle 5 vs. Kindle Paperwhite here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129956.msg1921549.html#msg1921549
And my Kindle PW review is here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,129852.0.html

Now it is time to put the venerable Kindle 2 against both the Kindle PW and the $69 Kindle 5. Is either a good upgrade from Kindle 2?

The looks:

The white Kindle 2 has held up remarkably well. While I think Kindle 1 was a bit weird looking, Kindle 2 already has that timeless design most Kindles have. Kindle 2 is, however, next the Kindle PW and Kindle 5, absolutely huge which makes its 6" screen seem smaller than the rest although it is the same size.

Out of the three, I think Kindle PW looks, with its very simple lines and rubbery sides, the best and Kindle 5 and Kindle 2 are tied for second position. All look good, Kindle 2 is just a lot bigger and heavier than the rest.

$69 Kindle 5 is the smallest and lightest, if that is a consideration. It is a LOT lighter than Kindle 2 and even Kindle PW.

Amazon lighted leather cover:

Kindle 2 didn't have a lighted Amazon leather cover, but it did have a very good regular leather cover from Amazon, much like the Kindle 3 non-lighted cover. Kindle PW also has a very nice non-lighted leather cover from Amazon, which closed up actually looks a bit like the Amazon 2 cover because they both have a metallic Kindle logo on them - something Kindle 3 or Kindle 4/5 lighted cases didn't have.

Only lighted case is for the Kindle 4/5, but as far as non-lighted cases go, Kindle 2 and Kindle PW have the better ones. Kindle 4/5 also have an official non-lighted case, but it lesser quality of all these. Kindle PW case is the best with the magnetic closing mechanism and the device sitting tightly inside it. Kindle 2 case lets the device wobble a bit in its metallic clips, but is otherwise a very solid, high-quality cover.

So, if you are used to and like the Kindle 2 cover from Amazon, upgrading to Kindle PW with Amazon cover is a safe bet. The Kindle 4/5 official case is a bit more of a mixed bag. Perhaps consider an alternative there, for example: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008635H4M/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=electronics

The software:

Unlike Kindle 3 Keyboard, which still runs pretty much the latest Amazon features (not quite all, but most), Kindle 2 software is starting to show its age. It too did get a 2.5 software update, which brings crisper fonts, collections and social media support, but there is a lot more missing than on the Kindle 3 Keyboard which is fairly equal to Kindle 5 in software-terms.

Some new things Kindle PW and Kindle 5 would bring to a Kindle 2 owner are the option for partial page refershes (instead of blink after each, this is not available on Kindle 3 either), support for panel view comic books and children's books, parental controls and some other smaller features. Kindle PW would also include X-Ray, translator, cover view for books etc. that Kindle 2 or Kindle 5 don't have.

Not to mention that the new devices are inherely a lot faster and run their software better. So, in terms of new software features, the upgrade certainly carries weight. However, again as a reminder, Kindle PW or Kindle 5 do not support audio of any kind! So if you need audiobooks or text-to-speech, consider upgrading your Kindle 2 to Kindle 3 aka Kindle Keyboard (still sold by Amazon).

The function:

There are a couple of things I must mention about the Kindle 2, when compared to Kindle PW and Kindle 5. First is, since it is bigger, the second generation Kindle does probably have the best hardware keys and page change keys of all Kindles. PW obviously is touch only (but works well both in page changing and virtual keyboard), Kindle 5 has smaller page change keys that are harder to hit (not hard, but harder than Kindle 2) and no hardware keyboard, so if you must have a keyboard, Kindle PW's virtual one is better than the scroll-character-by-character Kindle 5 keyboard which is fine for short search words, but not much else. Kindle PW's virtual keyboard may be the best keyboard in any Kindle. The Kindle 5's 5-way controller is a bit better than the control knob on Kindle 2, in my opinion, though.

The second thing is the overall speed at which the devices operate. Kindle PW is fastest, Kindle 5 is fast enough and Kindle 2 slow as molasses. So, the newer Kindles change pages faster, operate menus faster, do everything faster. It is a quite distinct difference between Kindle 2 and later Kindles. Even Kindle 3 Keyboard is a lot faster than Kindle 2, which is in a slow-league of its own.

If you need hardware keyboard, an upgrade to Kindle 3 aka Kindle Keyboard might be useful. It is a lot faster than Kindle 2 and has a better screen.

The screen:

Kindle 2 screen was a controversial star of its time, not unlike Kindle PW now. It had less contrast than the first Kindle and the infamous sun fade problem plagued some units.

Looking side by side at Kindle 2, Kindle PW and Kindle 5... I can safely say that the controversial-in-itself Kindle PW has finally found an earlier Kindle which is beats in text blackness. So if you are upgrading from Kindle 2 to Kindle PW, you should see an increase in text blackness on the new device (the PW frontlight is a different consideration though, you might or might not like it, remember it can't be fully turned off). The Kindle 2 is clearly the most light-texted one of these all and it also has a darker background than the others. The Kindle 2 software update up to 2.5.8 does make the fonts a little crisper compared to 2.3 though, but still not enough to touch the Kindle PW.

However, again, the undisputed king of black text is the $69 Kindle 5. It is so much blacker than either of the two competitors, new or old, that it isn't really funny anymore. For me, best of bunch is again the $69 Kindle 5. Kindle 5 has by far the best pure e-ink experience and for plain old reading its size and feature-set are pretty much perfect, if that is sufficient for your needs. If you need audio features or hardware keyboard and are coming from Kindle 2, consider the Kindle 3 aka Kindle Keyboard instead - it is still sold by Amazon. If you want all the latest software tricks, Kindle PW is the way to go, but beware of the frontlight - you may love it or hate it.


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## FearIndex

Maybe some of you guys with experience on third-party lighted Kindle covers or clip-on lights want to chime in, how would you light up the Kindle PW (assuming frontlight-dislike)?

Still thinking about lighting up the PW as well, not sure, but looking at it. I am yet to find any real good covers that would include a light, I'm guessing some third-party Kindle Touch cases might be workable, but they seem awfully bulky and I dislike the idea of covering the Kindle PW bezel with a cover. I'd like to keep it as lightweight as possible, that's why I have preferred the Amazon lighted leather cases that have been very slim and light for what they are.

One option would be some kind of a clip-on light. This page lists some clip-on lights: http://www.squidoo.com/light-for-kindle

These two looked fairly interesting to me. Especially the first one seems kind of nice:

Verso Clip-On Reading Light for Kindle (Graphite)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verso-Clip-On-Reading-Kindle-Graphite/dp/B003FZA1OW/

Verso Rechargeable Arc Light for E-Readers - Graphite - Frustration Free Packaging
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verso-Rechargeable-Arc-Light-E-Readers/dp/B004D39RM2/

First one is probably the less intrusive of the two, but having to swap batteries every five hours of reading does not appeal to me at all - considering I've been spoiled by Kindle-powered reading lights since the Kindle 3 and Amazon lighted leather cover. The rechargeable model would at least be separately rechargeable without battery swapping. Still, the idea of adding a separate light, and one that doesn't get its power from the Kindle so needs charging/battery swapping, to my reading setup does not seem all that appealing. I like having a Kindle (with light) that is like a book, just open it and read, charge from one port both the device and the light. A separate clip-on light would indeed ruin that...

If anyone comes across a lighted cover that is suitable for Kindle Paperwhite, do post a link. Thank you. At least until I have setlled onto a satisfactory lighted case for the $69 Kindle 5, I'll keep looking at Kindle PW lighting solutions as well. And judging by the posts above, others who like PW but dislike reading it in the dark, might be interested in such solutions also.


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## Ann in Arlington

For my money, the front light Kindle PW is vastly superior to any clip-on or case-mounted lighting I've used -- and I've had a Kindle since July of 2008 -- the original wedge shaped "K1".  I've used the "kindle kandle", the flex light, and one or two others I can't recall the name of.  All did the job, but none as well as the integrated lighting of the PW for me.

All clip-on lights or case-mounted lights, in my opinion, have the problem of a 'glare point'.  You can work around it depending on how you hold the device, but it's there.  

And, FWIW, I think the lighted case for the K4 is extremely cleverly designed.  A great improvement to the lighted case for the K3K which I actually never bought because I didn't like how it lighted the device, and felt like the extending arm could easily be broken.  It also added weight, mostly at the top, which made the whole thing feel a bit top heavy to me.  The K4 case really solved all those problems, but there's still the 'glare point'. 

So. . . .I clearly don't have the problem . . . .but I can say that when looking for lights for my K1, K3, and K4, I looked for light weight lights that were flexible.  I did not want too much weight that could affect how I held the device or made it more fatiguing.  And flexibility meant I could move the light source to minimize glare rather than having to tilt the kindle.  More generalized, or 'soft', light sources also made for less glare.


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## mooshie78

Agreed.  For me the PW beats the crap out of any clip on light I used with my K1, K2, or K3.  They all have the glare point Ann notes, I always found it hard to get the screen lit etc.

The PW is clearly not for everyone as some have commented that they think it looks too much like an LCD screen when the lights up, some can't find one they don't notice color blotches on etc.  So its definitely a YMMV situation as everyone's eyes, preferences, quirks etc. are different.

I personally don't mind reading on LCD screens, so that's moot for me.  And I still find the PW screen is easier on the eyes than an LCS as the light isn't shining directly out form the screen as the screen is just glowing.  So it's near perfect for my needs.  Nice, evenly lit screen, whiter background with the light on (hate the drab grey of e-ink) etc.


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## FearIndex

Appreciate the comments Ann and mooshie78.

On the topic of Kindle 3 lighted cover, I never broke mine or felt it would be easily broken during the years of use. It is very durable and high quality. Also the Kindle 3 light doesn't shine in the eyes when reading in bed because the light points more downwards, unlike the Kindle 4 cover which many people comment does shine in the eyes when reading in bed. Kindle 4 does light the screen from the middle which some may prefer, whereas Kindle 3 case does it from the side though, which may affect preferences of course. I own both Kindle 3 lighted cover and Kindle 4 lighted cover from Amazon (Kindle 3 passed onto family now though). I greatly prefer the Kindle 3 case, both from lighting perspective and quality perspective, over the Kindle 4 case from Amazon.

It is true that the light both Kindle 3 and Kindle 4 Amazon lighted covers produce has hotspotting (in other words, an intense ball of light in one place) and from that bright spot it falls gradually darker towards the edges. However, personally I find that more pleasing to the eyes than the unevenness of Kindle PW frontlight and especially the LCD-likeness of the frontlight. I do appreciate that your mileage does vary, so anyone pondering this should try the lighted cases and the PW frontlight themselves to see which they like the best.


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## bordercollielady

My favorite reading light is the Lumatec - its very light and the LEDs are soft. The light is big enough that it doesn't glare like some of the others

http://www.amazon.com/Lumatec-Everest-Reading-Light/dp/B0001FUJLO

It also has a cord that you can wrap around your neck instead of attaching it to your cover.


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## FearIndex

Thanks for the great tip bordercollielady!

This also looks promising, great thing about it seems that it charges through micro USB, so it could be charged using the same charger as the Kindle:

Verso Rechargeable Wrap Light for E-Readers - Graphite
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004D39RMW/


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## tiktokman

After sending back two Paperwhites that I could not read on for more than 15 minutes without getting a headache I received my $69 Kindle on Friday. The contrast is so much better and the text much more crisp on the $69 Kindle. I read with the smallest font setting, typeface 'condensed', line spacing 'small' and WPL at 'default'. I have read for several hours over the last few days with no fatigue and the finally have the ability to get lost in a book again. 

If I need to read at night in a dark room I'll just use my iphone or ipad with the background set to black and the font set to white. 

For me the Paperwhite is one or two revisions from being usable (if ever). I had the Kindle Touch and loved it so there must be something with the 3rd overlay that breaks the reading experience for me.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare)

mooshie78 said:


> Agreed. For me the PW beats the crap out of any clip on light I used with my K1, K2, or K3. They all have the glare point Ann notes, I always found it hard to get the screen lit etc.
> 
> The PW is clearly not for everyone as some have commented that they think it looks too much like an LCD screen when the lights up, some can't find one they don't notice color blotches on etc. So its definitely a YMMV situation as everyone's eyes, preferences, quirks etc. are different.
> 
> I personally don't mind reading on LCD screens, so that's moot for me. And I still find the PW screen is easier on the eyes than an LCS as the light isn't shining directly out form the screen as the screen is just glowing. So it's near perfect for my needs. Nice, evenly lit screen, whiter background with the light on (hate the drab grey of e-ink) etc.


Totally.

And I think the new PW screen...one that is not defective...is great. Have used one and like it.

OTOH, I ended up buying the Fire HD yesterday, lol. After weighing many factors.

Love everything about it except the extra weight. But the reading screen, with the Sepia setting, makes for a very nice "softer" reading environment IMO.

If I have anything left after the holidays, I may still splurge and get the PW but my K Keyboard still functions just fine for home reading. The Fire will commute with me.


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## mooshie78

Yeah, I don't mind reading on a back lit screen at all.  I just have no real use for a 7" tablet--I need the 9.7" iPad screen for a lot of my work PDFs and other tasks.  And I don't really want two tablets in different sizes--and also don't like that pretty much all tablets other than the iPad are 16x9 widescreen ratios rather than 4:3.  I find 16x9 screens too narrow for reading in portrait orientation, and too wide in landscape.

So I just keep a Kindle as I like the smaller and lighter form factor for curling up and reading a novel.  The longer battery life is nice too.  But I do still do a good bit of reading on my iPad between newspapers and PDFs of scholarly journal articles for work.


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## CAR

FearIndex said:


> Maybe some of you guys with experience on third-party lighted Kindle covers or clip-on lights want to chime in, how would you light up the Kindle PW (assuming frontlight-dislike)?


I would not recommend a PW to anyone, if you are not going to use the light. I explain why in my PW review here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,130000.msg1926357.html#msg1926357


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare)

mooshie78 said:


> Yeah, I don't mind reading on a back lit screen at all. I just have no real use for a 7" tablet--I need the 9.7" iPad screen for a lot of my work PDFs and other tasks. And I don't really want two tablets in different sizes--and also don't like that pretty much all tablets other than the iPad are 16x9 widescreen ratios rather than 4:3. I find 16x9 screens too narrow for reading in portrait orientation, and too wide in landscape.
> 
> So I just keep a Kindle as I like the smaller and lighter form factor for curling up and reading a novel. The longer battery life is nice too. But I do still do a good bit of reading on my iPad between newspapers and PDFs of scholarly journal articles for work.


It's all about portability for me and a 10" tablet will not do it. Love the 7" format and have been shopping the Samsung and Nexus for awhile. I dont need to work on mine...I have a light wt work laptop...that I can take with me (but prefer not to!).

I do love the ergonomics (basically it comes down to weight with the new Fire...the last one was a little squared off box...this one is shaped just like the PW) of the e-readers but will have to deal with it. It's still worlds better than a book.

I like to be able to get info and get directions and pull up the Web fast when I'm out and about...and the larger screen...larger than my smartphone...feels like luxury. Plenty of room for maps and Web pages.

And the screen definition is amazing on the Fire. Very impressive.


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## FearIndex

CAR said:


> I would not recommend a PW to anyone, if you are not going to use the light. I explain why in my PW review here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,130000.msg1926357.html#msg1926357


Fair points there. The existence of two additional layers on top of e-ink certainly puts the PW at a disadvantage if you don't prefer the frontlight. However, some may prefer the additional software features and the touch it has (I know I would), so solving the lighting/contrast issues somehow (maybe a combination of future software updates from Amazon for increading font darkness and turning off the frontlight completely) with a clip-on light or a lighted cover, might be useful for some.

Personally, I'm first going to look if the new third-party cover I ordered for the $69 Kindle 5 works well, because the screen on the $69 Kindle 5 is just so great that I don't know if PW can ever match that for me. Alongside that I'm still looking forward to whatever software updates (maybe in the areas I mentioned) Amazon comes up with for the Kindle PW and if third-parties come up with good lighted covers compatible with the PW - the latter probably won't happen for obvious reasons (unless there are many people like me), so a clip-on light may be the only way to go if that is something I'd decide to do.


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## mooshie78

Lursa (aka 9MMare) said:


> It's all about portability for me and a 10" tablet will not do it. Love the 7" format and have been shopping the Samsung and Nexus for awhile. I dont need to work on mine...I have a light wt work laptop...that I can take with me (but prefer not to!).


Yeah, portability is less of an issue for me. I do have a light laptop that I use for any work that requires typing (when not at home or the office where I have desktops).

But being a college professor/researcher I do a ton of reading of scholarly journal articles, and I need the bigger screen for those since most are pages too big for a 7" screen (especially with all the tables and figures). Some are even too big for the iPad screen even (i.e. 8.5x11" pages with two or three columns of small print text) and end up having to get read half page at a time in landscape which is annoying.

The portability issue is also kind of moot for most guys I think. Since we don't have purses, we're going to need a briefcase/attache bag or back pack to carry a 7" or 10" tablet around, where as for you gals a 7" tablet will easily fit in most purses thus very easy to take everywhere. No tablet is portable for me--heck even my Kindle isn't really--since I don't normally have any kind of bag with me when out and about. Other than going back and forth from work where I have my attache bag with my iPad and any documents/books I'm carrying around for current work. My iPhone is my only real portable gadget since that can go in a pocket and is thus always with me.


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## FearIndex

I am yet to receive my new lighted cover, but I have been happy reading the $69 Kindle 5 otherwise. When reading in the dark, the black bezel really lets you get lost in the book, it just "goes away" more so than the previous grey Kindle color does. It is more susceptible to finger prints, if you have greasy fingers or so, but not a problem. Luckily as someone wrote in another thread, the grey $69 Kindle 5 seems to be having the new screen too, so you can choose do you want more immersive black or more finger-print forgiving grey.

I was commenting on the PW quality in another thred (quote below) and it got me thinking - after all the hassle with the PW screen and all, it feels good to be "home" with a product that just works... The $69 Kindle 5 is really a mature product that does the "Kindle thing" remarkably well.



FearIndex said:


> Whatever your feelings on the PW frontlight, I think it is pretty obvious there is more quality variance on the PW than usual. Not just yes/no, defective/not-defective type of problems, but a wide range of different anomalies regarding the screen - different hues and spots in varying places, different levels of brightness, specs and lines, etc. Clearly they are still trying to figure out a consistent assembly process for the frontlight/screen. I think mine is one of the better ones, but it still looks like a gamble... and I'm not very fond of the frontlight even in better form.
> 
> Some people also have tilted screens (screen not glued on fully straight compared to bezel) on the PW, mine is also a little tilted. I checked all my four other Kindles and none of them had tilted screens.
> 
> I hope they get the PW consistency better soon. Consistency is important, there shouldn't be this much variance between units. Thinking about it, I doubt I have yet seen anyone saying they received multiple PW units (be it for partners or replacements) that looked the same! Many people seem to comment how different their particular units look like when compared side by side. That is pretty bad for a consumer electronics product.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare)

mooshie78 said:


> Yeah, portability is less of an issue for me. I do have a light laptop that I use for any work that requires typing (when not at home or the office where I have desktops).
> 
> But being a college professor/researcher I do a ton of reading of scholarly journal articles, and I need the bigger screen for those since most are pages too big for a 7" screen (especially with all the tables and figures). Some are even too big for the iPad screen even (i.e. 8.5x11" pages with two or three columns of small print text) and end up having to get read half page at a time in landscape which is annoying.
> 
> The portability issue is also kind of moot for most guys I think. Since we don't have purses, we're going to need a briefcase/attache bag or back pack to carry a 7" or 10" tablet around, where as for you gals a 7" tablet will easily fit in most purses thus very easy to take everywhere. No tablet is portable for me--heck even my Kindle isn't really--since I don't normally have any kind of bag with me when out and about. Other than going back and forth from work where I have my attache bag with my iPad and any documents/books I'm carrying around for current work. My iPhone is my only real portable gadget since that can go in a pocket and is thus always with me.


HUh, and all this time I thought you were a woman! LOL

We are doing an e-reader pilot here at work and the intent is to find out which e-readers do much of what you described for employees that travel. Like readng .pdfs, etc. I'm piloting a Nook Simple Touch and find .pdfs scope really well to it. I do like the e-ink screen for .pdfs.

So anyway, YES! For someone who always in the past kept a paperback book in her purse everywhere she went....a Kindle is a boon and the Fire isnt too bad either, just heavier.


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## mooshie78

lol 

Yeah, for me no e-readers work since the PDFs I read are full of tables and diagrams (lots of statistical analyses) that can't be reflowed to work on a small screen.  Only option is a big screen tablet, reading them on a laptop, or just printing them out.  For people dealing with PDFs that are just text, those can often be reflowed and would work well on a Kindle/other e-reader or small screen tablet.


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## FearIndex

Got the new third-party TeckNet cover for my $69 Kindle 5!

First impressions here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,130865.0.html


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## FearIndex

I have posted by early review of the TeckNet lighted $79 Kindle 4/$69 Kindle 5 cover here:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,130865.msg1930814.html#msg1930814

Here is a comparison shot:










The TeckNet cover is nice, but I'm not quite convinced of the bluer hue of the TeckNet light. This will require further experimenting.

I also how one new idea, to create a "hood" for the lighted Amazon leather cover to remedy the "it shines in your eyes" problem. I will see how those experiments compare with the TeckNet.

Oh boy, why didn't I just stick to my Kindle 3 Keyboard and the Amazon lighted cover for that!


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## bordercollielady

I like the blue light.. soothing to the eyes.


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## FearIndex

bordercollielady said:


> I like the blue light.. soothing to the eyes.


Yes, I'm pretty sure that is one of those things that comes down to personal preference - and also to what one is used to. Because I'm used to the warmer Amazon light, the blue is a bit strange. Glad to hear you like it!

I'll continue looking at different options and will settle on something eventually.


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## FearIndex

OK, so another angle to this... fixing the Amazon $79 Kindle 4/$69 Kindle 5 lighted cover... with a piece of cardboard.

Turns out, a potentially great solution! Here's what I made earlier...

More photos: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,131020.0.html










No more light shining in my eyes, yay!


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## FearIndex

A week and a half ago I came to the conclusion I can't stand the Kindle Paperwhite frontlight or the Kindle 4 official lighted cover's light shining in my eyes when reading in the dark (which is when I do most of my reading) and set out to find a solution... I wanted a Kindle upgrade and a perfect light solution.

I think I've come to a solution now, so here's a summary of the three options I listed in my starting message on this thread - and how those turned out for me:

*1) Using a lighted cover or clip-on light with Kindle Paperwhite, to avoid using frontlight*

This is certainly an option I could research more than I have, but the lack of suitable lighted covers (and not really a desire to go the clip-on route because PW is quite heavy as it is) means it hasn't gone and probably won't go anywhere. Also the PW clearly has inferior text blackness compared to the $69 Kindle 5, which together with the touch and light layers detract from that superior e-ink experience I so love. Upsides for the PW would be the touch interface and better software features, but I don't think those alone can push me away from the baby Kindle 5 as my primary reader. I'll keep the PW, though, and see how the software and accessory options develop over the year, but I see a passive future for the PW for the time being.

This is what a lighted cover could look like with the Kindle PW:










*2) Finding a better lighted cover for the new $69 Kindle 5, one that won't shine in the eyes*

The other option has been to upgrade to Kindle 5, which should be an upgrade over Kindle 4 (and as we now know, is), and at the same time find a better cover, one that improves on the lackluster Kindle 4/5 official cover and especially won't shine in my eyes. Black Kindle 5 is the easy part, and as reviewed above in the thread, indeed is a meaningful upgrade over its last-year predecessor thanks to the darker color and blacker text on screen.

As for the case, it turns out, the options are rather limited. Most lighted covers still use separate batteries and can be quite bulky (not much better than using a clip-on light). The only example I found is the TeckNet lighted cover mentioned and linked to earlier in this thread, which does have an adjustable light arm meaning it can be pointed away from the eyes. TeckNet does integrate almost as well as the official cover with the Kindle 4 and 5 (and takes its power from the device which is great), but I'm not a big fan of the bluer hue its light produces.

Official lighted cover for $79 Kindle 4/$69 Kindle 5 on the left, TeckNet cover on the right:










*3) Modding the Amazon official lighted cover, so it won't shine in the eyes*

Third option, that I didn't really consider much at the time of starting this thread, was modding the Amazon lighted cover to fix the glare issue. This option became a more potential one once I saw how much better the new Kindle 5 is compared to the PW in my opinion and started to think of sticking to Kindle 5 instead of Kindle PW. What sealed the deal was that the TeckNet cover wasn't looking like the perfect solution to my woes either - so I set out to mod the case. Turns out, just a piece of cardboard and double-sided tape and no light shines in the eyes anymore. KimberlyinMN and others have also used gaffer's tape, which seems like another great solution for this problem. The key is to use something thin and adhesive that can cover the top of the light extending somewhat beyond the light arm towards the right and the bottom of the Kindle.

Here is my black cardboard in use, it stops the glare and still allows normal operation (opening, closing etc.) of the light and case:










So, I think I've got a solution I am finally happy with! Kindle 5 is superior to Kindle 4 thanks to the new blacker text on the screen - and with the modded lighted cover the most glaring problem is fixed, without taking away from the utility of the cover. In the end, the differences are minor compared to my Kindle setup of the last 12 months: the case is the same plus just one piece of cardboard, the new $69 Kindle 5 is mostly the same as the old $79 Kindle 5, plus a blacker color and blacker text that add a lot of contrast.

But minor as it may be, it all adds up to a major difference! Finally, something to rival my old Kindle 3 Keyboard in every way (that I foolishly gave away to family at the time I got the Kindle 4), just in a smaller, niftier package... At least judging by the reading marathon of last night, I am finally content in a way I haven't been with either Kindle 4 or Kindle PW. 

End of this rant!  Feel free to post your solutions though, if you have been struggling like I was. Now, off to read...


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## NanD

I hate the hotspot a light causes. If my PW wasn't a good one, I probably would have gotten the Fire instead.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


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## FearIndex

NanD said:


> I hate the hotspot a light causes. If my PW wasn't a good one, I probably would have gotten the Fire instead.


I know some feel that way. Personally I find a single light hotspot less troubling than four small ones at the bottom and other uneveness of the PW screen. Overall I feel the lighted cover with $69 Kindle 5 is the more even light compared to PW frontlight. YMMV. 

Completely other issue is does one like the PW frontlight. It looks completely different than e-ink with reading light. Some like it, others do not.


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## FearIndex

Discussion about the Kindle 3 Keyboard vs. Kindle PW elsewhere prompted me to think about something:

I wonder if the current Kindle 3 Keyboard has now the same screen as the $69 Kindle 5? It might simply because sourcing screen parts is easier if you use the same one, unless Amazon has excessive old stock of K3K. Kindle 3 Keyboard with the new darker screen might be excellent. Who knows if the internals are now a little faster too, component changes and revisions over long-lived hardware is nothing new after all. Anyone have experience of a fresh Kindle 3 Keyboard? Almost tempts me to buy a new Kindle 3 Keyboard and check it out.  Oh well, I do think the new slimmer cases (with a glare-fixed light) are probably better than the old Kindle 3 Keyboard book-style though, so I think not.

By the way: I have been very happy with my $69 Kindle 5 with "glare-fixed" lighted cover. So in that sense my initial feelings on this solution have remained the same. I'm not sure a K3K with its thicker lighted cover would actually feel like an improvement for me now, even if the internals and screen were updated. I am spoiled by the thin and small $69 Kindle 5 Amazon case.

That said, if anyone has experience of a new late 2012-purchased Kindle Keyboard vs. an old 2010 version, feel free to share.


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## SandyLu562

My K3K is about a year old now and still works fabulously. I dl'd the most recent software update and am enjoying that. The covers I use are the lighted Amazon cover and several M-edge covers with their flexible, lo-med-hi booklight. 

The M-edge is what I ended up using even though the light has to be babied along. It gradually looses it's ability to bend and also looses the ability to lock into the semi-upright position most comfortable for reading. After returning one light, I just use a rubberband to hold it in place for easy reading.

The Amazon lighted cover light was comparatively weak and didn't really shine well on the Kindle. Bending it with a pair of long-nose pliers sort of worked. The steel is very springy and difficult to bend permanently. Also didn't want too much of a bend that would make the light difficult to push back into the cover.

I resisted the GlowNook for several months; finally succumbed this summer and haven't used my Kindle or Sony 650 Touch since! I love the lighted screen and the font choices as well as sizes so I can read without my glasses. The screen is clear enough to turn off the light in well-lighted areas and there are physical page turn buttons on both sides of the screen; top pages forward and bottom pages back. Even tho I'm right-handed, I usually hold e-readers in my left hand so end up using the physical page turn buttons most of the time. I wish the touch page turn could be changed like the Sony so that touching at the left edge of the screen would page forward (well the Sony is a swipe).

The light on the Nook tends to have dark shadows in some areas of the page sometimes. This varies by page rather than by book although some books seem to have much larger, darker areas. There is no screen discoloration. I can live with the shadow areas as they aren't usually large or especially dark.

Nighttime reading is so enjoyable now that I don't have to try to keep a light at the proper angle for reading in bed! 

 Now the new Kindle Fire HD 8.9" screen is calling me for magazines and Amazon Prime LOL


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## Jodi O

I use my KK with the Amazon lighted cover, have been for about two years. Nothing else has called to me. I like the idea of the Paperwhite, and not having to use an external light, but I will wait for V2. I will probably not leave the Kindle family simply because of the labor involved in converting and sorting my entire library...again.


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## GBear

Desertway said:


> I use my KK with the Amazon lighted cover, have been for about two years. Nothing else has called to me. I like the idea of the Paperwhite, and not having to use an external light, but I will wait for V2. I will probably not leave the Kindle family simply because of the labor involved in converting and sorting my entire library...again.


I was right where you are, and probably still am, but the PW I saw at Best Buy was very tempting...


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## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> Discussion about the Kindle 3 Keyboard vs. Kindle PW elsewhere prompted me to think about something:
> 
> I wonder if the current Kindle 3 Keyboard has now the same screen as the $69 Kindle 5? It might simply because sourcing screen parts is easier if you use the same one, unless Amazon has excessive old stock of K3K. Kindle 3 Keyboard with the new darker screen might be excellent. Who knows if the internals are now a little faster too, component changes and revisions over long-lived hardware is nothing new after all. Anyone have experience of a fresh Kindle 3 Keyboard? Almost tempts me to buy a new Kindle 3 Keyboard and check it out.  Oh well, I do think the new slimmer cases (with a glare-fixed light) are probably better than the old Kindle 3 Keyboard book-style though, so I think not.
> 
> By the way: I have been very happy with my $69 Kindle 5 with "glare-fixed" lighted cover. So in that sense my initial feelings on this solution have remained the same. I'm not sure a K3K with its thicker lighted cover would actually feel like an improvement for me now, even if the internals and screen were updated. I am spoiled by the thin and small $69 Kindle 5 Amazon case.
> 
> That said, if anyone has experience of a new late 2012-purchased Kindle Keyboard vs. an old 2010 version, feel free to share.


I just wanted to share a few notes after six+ months using the $69 Kindle "5" with the lighted Amazon leather cover plus the carboard glare-fix on the lighted cover I mentioned earlier in this thread... Again, this was after my disappointment with the Kindle Paperwhite and the $79 Kingle "4" with lighted Amazon leather cover and after testing various other things and solutions, some of which are linked in my signature and covered earlier in this thread.

I must say I have been very happy and have stopped looking for any other solutions (at least until the next big Kindle launch comes, you never know...). The $69 Kindle in black is really great contrast-wise and looks better in the black leather case than the previous $79 Kindle in grey did. The glare-fix (a piece of cardboard taped to the light) also fixes most of my issues with glare from the cover light and I really appreciate the improved screen on the latest baby Kindle, much better black text than in any other Kindle. Also, compared to where $79 Kindle 4 started, the Kindle 4/5 software has also matured nicely. Overall these small improvements and fixes push this to the best Kindle experience I've had. Finally.

A few niggles remain. The cover light is quite bright on the top bezel, meaning a little glare shines via the top of the Kindle. Some matte covering would help, but I haven't bothered. It is not much, but still I can't help thinking that Kindle 3 had the absolutely best lighted cover in this regard - it didn't bother me in any way. Nevertheless, the small form-factor of the Kindle 4/5 and its leather cover is certainly an improvement over Kindle 3, so there are always tradeoffs. (I love the small size.) The black $69 Kindle also likes fingerprints a little too much, but that is a minor worry.

I've read a great number of books with this combo in the past six months and after lackluster experiences with $79 Kindle 4 and Kindle Paperwhite, I'm finally as happy and happier as I was with the great Kindle 3.  So, thinks works for me.


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## Vicki G.

Quite interesting that this thread should just "pop up" when I logged in as I've been having a number of Kindle issues as well.  I had a Paperwhite with a splotchy screen.  Sorry, splotchy is the only way I can think to describe it.  Text was lighter in some places, darker (or bolder) in others.  Weird!!  I messed around with this PW for months thinking it was my eyes/glasses.  Finally I called Kindle CS and they agreed to send me a new unit.  It arrived and it was better - much better BUT...  the font still wasn't as dark/bold as on what I had to compare it to, namely the Touch.  Around this time I decided to sell my old Kindles - the Touch and a KK.  Of course, the KK sold first.  I wasn't too happy about it but conceded that I didn't need 3 Kindles.  I think it was the first time I've ever sold an electronic device and immediately wished I hadn't.  I was reading on here one day how a lot of people are going back to the KK because of the font.  I usually have sufficient light wherever I am reading.  If not, I turn on a lamp so the lighting isn't an issue for me.  I ended up looking around and buying a used/like new KK from Amazon.  Found my Oberon cover that I love but never was particularly happy using because I thought it weighed too much and think that this is my perfect Kindle!!  It feels like I'm reading a leather bound book, the Oberon cover is the absolute perfect one for me - Bold Celtic Knot in Saddle (not made any more in this color), put the charm on the bungee which feels kinda like an old bookmark and I'm happy as the proverbial pig in manure.  

But WAIT!!!  Something inside was pulling me towards the $69 Kindle 4 - or is it a 5 now since the newest one?  Anyway, I digress.  I ordered it.  OMG!!  I can't believe how clear and sharp and DARK the font is!!!  I had actually thought of the $69 Kindle to stay in my purse for reading at work.  And I'm thinking that is probably what I will do with it.  I just can't get past how good the Oberon feels now.  And I was one of the people who hated Oberons because of the weight, etc.  Yeah, I know... get an Oberon for the Baby Kindle but I don't think it would feel as good.  Maybe... later.

The moral of this story is I think the font contrast is far superior on the screens with lower resolution.  One has to give up a number of bells and whistles that make the newer Kindles more obedient but I'm willing to do that for the clear, crisp, dark text.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it!


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## Ann in Arlington

A note about font contrast. . . . I don't see the difference you all describe between my PW and my basic Kindle BUT -- with the PW you can set the refresh to happen every page, rather than every 6th page or so, and that will work better for some people. From the home page, use the menu icon to go to settings and then reading options.  Turn Page Refresh ON.

For me, as I've said before, the PW is the best kindle I've owned.  I really prefer it over the basic just because of ease of control (touch screen vs 4 way toggle). The screen contrast seems about the same, but I prefer the PW lighting system to the cover-with-light which puts a bright spot on the screen of my Basic.  The size of either one is way better.  Before that I had the keyboard model.  Also great. . . . but the keyboard made it big.  Though it's size/shape/design was a definitely improvement over the original Kindle I had before that.  (Mind you, the little silvery thing that ran up and down when you turned the scroll wheel was slick.  )

In short, it seems to me each newer model has gotten better (though I never have owned a 2nd gen or Touch model).

I completely agree that having a back up is a good thing.


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## Vicki G.

Ann, I wish I could see your PW.  Not being sarcastic, I really DO wish I could see it.  I would much rather use my PW because of all its bells & whistles.  I happen to be one of the ones who loves the "how much time left" feature but, of course, it isn't available on the lower resolution screen (KK & Baby) Kindles.  I also love that Collections are alphabetized.  Soooooo, what does one trade off for?  I just pulled up a page on the Baby and the same page on the PW.  The font is washed out on the PW.  The color of the text is gray, not black.  I can make it better, not good but better - by using either Helvetica or MT Chinese Surrogate font BUT what does one do when the book has Publishers Font and can't be changed?  I'm really not happy having to give up my PW but my eyesight is just too bad to deal with less quality if I don't have to.   

P.S.  I even got paranoid about my eyesight and had others look at the PW compared to the Baby.  They also see the difference a mile away.  Maybe I should invite Uncle Jeff over for Show-And-Tell?  

P.S.  When are you going to get around to Buried?  It is very good.


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## Ann in Arlington

The font on my PW is plenty dark, and I've seen several others belonging to other folks.  I've never seen one where I'd characterize the print as 'gray'.   Maybe you should consider returning it for a replacement.  I assume you've played with various light levels and put the refresh on every page.  Or maybe you can find someone else in your area that has one so you can compare to figure out if it's the way your eyes see it, or if it truly is different.

As to my reading bar. . . . .I'm actually reading about 3 or 4 things, though only 2 show, and have way more than 2 in TBR as well. . . .no clue when I'll get to any particular book!   'Bout the only thing you can count on is the Recently read titles. . .though, even there, the one is actually a DNF.


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## CAR

Wow I was surprised to read this thread again.      Two Paperwhites here and we both love them.   But if we did not like them, we would have something else.  A e-book reader is too personal of a item, to keep something you do not like.


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## NightGoat

CAR said:


> Wow I was surprised to read this thread again.  Two Paperwhites here and we both love them. But if we did not like them, we would have something else. A e-book reader is too personal of a item, to keep something you do not like.


I like brussel sprouts, others not liking them doesn't detract from my enjoyment. I always say "More for me!" 
Now maybe you can get that third PW.


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## FearIndex

While I wait for the international shipment of my Kindle PW2 (ships the 15th - still time to cancel, keep those experiences coming please), I'm already bracing for a disappointment and decided to "refresh" my $79 Kindle 4 official lighted Amazon case, which I use with my black $69 Kindle 5 (and before that with my grey $79 Kindle 4). I have been using the case with a piece of cardboard (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,131020.0.html) since last October and with that fix, to fix the light from shining to my eyes, it has indeed worked very nicely.

I absolutely love the $69 Kindle 5, it is a great e-ink experience with the best text blackness of any Kindle. If it weren't for the advanced features in the PW, I wouldn't be eyeing the PW2 upgrade at all (I also have PW1 but I don't like the screen/light).

I was thinking about the purple version of the cover, to get some new color (a gret picture review here: http://the-gadgeteer.com/2011/11/20/kindle-lighted-leather-cover-review/) but unfortunately the non-black $69/$79 Kindle 4/5 covers have a grey interior, whereas the black has a darker interior. Even though the black cover predates the black $69 Kindle 5 by a year, its darker interior fits my black $69 Kindle 5 much better than a grey interior would. In fact, it fits the black Kindle much better than the grey Kindle it was originally bought for. So I'm afraid non-black cover could clash and lighter grey look a bit cheap too.

Anyway, since I had some quality concerns with this case (light shining to eyes without the cardboard patch, leather quality not up to other official Kindle covers, a bit too tight fit hindering button presses on some), I decided to see if two years in production had helped any. I'll get fresh leather on the same go. Judging by the recent reviews it probably hasn't improved, but we'll see. I'll put the 2011 bought Amazon Kindle Lighted Leather Cover, Black against the 2013 bought Amazon Kindle Lighted Leather Cover, Black and see if anything is different.

Has anyone else noticed any evolution in the "little" Kindle lighted (or non-lighted) official case over the past two years? Or have the niggles remained absolutely the same?

I'll post more when I get the new case... and of course when I get PW2.


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## FearIndex

I decided to order two more colors of the lighted baby Kindle cover, as I'm upgrading a family member to $69 Kindle 5. I'll see what the differences in colors are, for myself, then. I also ordered a spare Kindle 5, just in case Amazon's e-ink plans progress as badly as they have. I think, even with the compromise that it is, $69 Kindle 5 remains the best pure e-ink experience on Kindle, with unrivalled text blackness and contrast.

I'll report on the cases when I get them. I'm still thinking a black decal to lessen light glare would be a good addition.

As for the PW2, there is some good (but unfortunately bad sounding) discussion in the defective PaperWhite (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,128460.525.html) thread. Solution for one poster was to stay at Kindle Touch. Rational choice for me would be to cancel the PW2 order, but I guess I'll wait for more experiences still. The international shipping isn't until 15th.


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## FearIndex

Still waiting for the international PW2 shipping date...

In the meanwhile, my Kindle upgrade project is progressing. Amazon (and UPS) really surprised me again with their shipping speed. An order made Friday afternoon shipped on Saturday and delivered Monday morning. This was default, standard shipping. It may not seem that out of the ordinary, but the distance was from U.S. to Northern Europe, through customs and all. Slight problem that one of the items ordered didn't ship yet, although it was marked as in stock (the olive green lighted cover), but Amazon shipped all it could immediately at no extra cost, so I'm more than happy so far with this round of service. The last piece will arrive when it does, no problem.

Anyway, I got some new $69 Kindle 5 covers to play with and install for family etc. There were some small differences in the 2011 vs. 2013 version of the $79/$69 Kindle 4/5 official lighted covers, most significantly a slightly different light, requiring slightly different modding. The new light is more benign, and easier on the eyes, but would seem to require a little more light power in the form of a reflective cardboard mod. Anyway, not to crowd the wrong threads, I put those into their own thread here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164293.0.html










So far it still seems the best Kindle for me is a cardboard-modded $69 Kindle 5, although I'm still thinking which cover color to keep for myself. The light grey interior of the colored covers is something to get over, but I'm still considering it. I'm also looking at DecalGirl for made lessening the shinyness of the black baby Kindle front bezel, I think that might be useful in perfecting the experience.

Or maybe Paperwhite 2 will surprise me when the international orders finally ship next week?


----------



## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> In the meanwhile, my Kindle upgrade project is progressing. Amazon (and UPS) really surprised me again with their shipping speed. An order made Friday afternoon shipped on Saturday and delivered Monday morning. This was default, standard shipping. It may not seem that out of the ordinary, but the distance was from U.S. to Northern Europe, through customs and all. Slight problem that one of the items ordered didn't ship yet, although it was marked as in stock (the olive green lighted cover), but Amazon shipped all it could immediately at no extra cost, so I'm more than happy so far with this round of service. The last piece will arrive when it does, no problem.


I continue to be impressed by Amazon's logistics operation. Originally the whole shipment was promised by Wednesday (standard shipping over the pond), yet most items already arrived on Monday from Philadelphia. It seems the last piece was (literally) partying it up in Las Vegas and shipped Monday for a delivery tomorrow, which means the whole thing should still arrive by Wednesday - Amazon just shipped the items separately straight from whatever warehouses apparently had the items available the fastest, at no extra cost, even though I had selected group items together. I appreciate their effort.

I will continue experimenting with different Kindle 4/5 covers and maybe the DecalGirl skins, while I wait for my PW2 experiment... ever in search of perfection. 

As I posted on the accessories forum here with a pic, I got to modding the new cases with glossy cardboard to help the case light brightness a little.


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## FearIndex

If anyone is interested, I did some weight comparisons with a scale:

$69 Kindle 4B/5 naked: 168 grams (approx. 5.93 ounces)
$69 Kindle 4B/5 with official lighted cover: 313 g
PaperWhite 1 3G: 220 g
PaperWhite 1 3G with official case: 355 g

PaperWhite 2 is 6 grams lighter than PW1 and 3G looses 9 grams by official numbers, so PW2 Wi-Fi with official case: approx. 340 g

The above-mentioned olive green Kindle cover also arrived today, in 2011 Kindle packaging no less and with the old colder, brighter light... more on that in the accessories section: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164293.msg2358676.html#msg2358676

What I'm going to do next is check out the different cases and baby Kindles I have for the best case color/LED color combinations, because there are differences in the case lighting. Also I need to determine which colors go well together - I'll try to snap a shot in daylight at some point of the cases.


----------



## FearIndex

So, again time to recap this year's $69 Kindle 5 setup/upgrade adventure. In the appropriate areas of the forum I have posted my experiences with the different Kindle lighted cover colors and the DecalGirl matte skin (see end of message for a few pics and links). Anyway, where does this leave me with the $69 Kindle 5? Well, I'm upgrading some family from older Kindles with the $69 Kindle 5 now that it seems that is the pinnacle of regular e-ink experience on Kindle for now. I still think the Paperwhite is a bit polarizing to replace our Kindle use, the pure e-ink experience has plenty of upsides in my opinion and the frontlight still a bit controversial. Barring any surprises, the baby Kindle and the covers is what me and my relatives will be using for the next year. Those Kindle 3 Keyboard uses finally retiring.

With the Kindles and the lighted leather covers there is still a bit of puzzle to come to terms with. The grey-interiored colorful covers would work better with the grey baby Kindle, where as the black ones work better with the black Kindle. It really down comes to personal preference and maybe a little experimenting. Also all the covers have somewhat different LED lights, which come down to personal preference quite a bit. Someone may like less bright, someone more bright, so I still need to see how we'll mix and match the devices and the covers. There is also the question of what kind of cardboard etc. fixes I will do on the cases to avoid light shining into the eyes, matte black is the easy fix, but with glossy white cardboard one could adjust the light brightness on the Kindle a bit.

Then there is the DecaGirl option. I got a couple of the matte black film and so far have put it on one Kindle to test out. It does disperse the light on the top of the Kindle and hides the bright logo and fingerprints, but it also adds a bit of a brownish tint to the device and a (light-dispersing) texture to the bezel. Time will tell. I will probably be toying with these different variables in the coming weeks and months still.  It really comes down to personal preference who likes what, in these terms. We'll just pick what feels natural in the longer term.

Anyway, I still have the Paperwhite 2 on international pre-order (they start shipping on the 15th) and if I keep it that way, I will be sure to write my review on it to the reviews section of this forum. But as for $69 Kindle 5 I'll now get back to reading on it, just got a new book to celebrate yesterday... 

Amazon lighted leather covers, olive green, wine purple, black:










More: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164293.msg2358676.html#msg2358676

DecalGirl matte skin on the left:










More: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164514.0.html


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## FearIndex

How does Kindle DX "Graphite" compare to my other Kindles:

As an unexpected lateral move in my search to find the perfect Kindle e-ink reading experience (earlier in this thread I've looked at Kindle PW, 5, 4, 3 and 2, see above and my signature), I bit when Amazon.com lowered their Kindle DX "Graphite" pricing to $189 (down from previous $239 and original $379) and the leather cover to $9.99 (down from $49.99). Here are my impressions.

Kindle DX "Graphite" is in many ways an odd creature. Living in the twilight of Kindle generations long gone - remaining (now on fire sale, perhaps for the last time) only for the lack of a similar-sized replacement or slow sales, probably both. But it was odd already the day it was born, sort of a member of the third-generation Kindle family, but then again not. In many ways, the Kindle DX, still on sale during the sixth (!) Kindle generation, is a second-generation Kindle. That's almost four generations separating it from the latest Paperwhite 2 and yet, there they still are, sold side by side on Amazon.com.

Kindle DX in the middle (inside cover in the top picture), Kindle 2 (left) and Kindle 3 on the sides:










Bigger picture: http://imageshack.us/a/img844/9132/t90k.jpg










Bigger picture: http://imageshack.us/a/img713/2751/dp6g.jpg

Hardware:

This age difference becomes obvious when you open the packaging (which is, by the way, exactly like those larger, boxier second and third-generation Kindle packages were). Initially Kindle DX looks like a giant Kindle 3 Keyboard (Kindle DX has a 9.7" screen compared to regular 6"), but holding it in your hand it actually feels like a giant Kindle 2.

The back is the obvious giveaway: it is metallic like on Kindle 2, not rubbery plastic like on Kindle 3 Keyboard. The shade of the metal is darker to match the graphite front (which, by the way, is the same color as the darker Kindle 3), but the feel in your hand is very Kindle 2 - also, it feels quite heavy, almost a monster next to the diminutive latest $69 Kindle 5. To perfect the nostalgy trip to simpler Kindle times, the button layout is nearly identical to Kindle 2, down to the little 5-way joystick (now only in graphite) and menu, home and back keys lining the right-side page change keys. To make the confusion complete, it uses the same font as Kindle 3, printed on a Kindle 2 button layout. (Unlike any other button-Kindle, the Kindle DX does not have page change keys on the left side, which is rather unfortunate in my use.)

Interior hardware of Kindle DX "Graphite" is also a mix and match of the second and third-generation Kindles. It has a version of the third-generation "pearl" e-ink screen (resolution 824 x 1200 vs. 600 x 800 normally), but only the same amount of RAM as Kindle 2 (half that of Kindle 3), so it runs a version of the Kindle 2 software (2.5.8 was pre-installed). And just like Kindle 2, there is no Wi-Fi. This global version of Kindle DX "Graphite" comes only with 3G, which does work very well of course. Then again, Kindle DX has the Kindle 3 storage capacity of 4 GB - twice that of Kindle 2, $79 Kindle 4/$69 Kindle 5 and Kindle PW1/PW2.

There is of course the keyboard too, shaped a little differently than on Kindle 2, but otherwise the same. I do like the fact that relatively the keyboard on the Kindle DX seems to take less space than on a Kindle 2 - those flat keys actually take up less vertical space than the Kindle 2 keyboard does. Finally as an unique touch, Kindle DX has an accelerometer and an auto-rotate option in the "Aa" menu, in addition to the usual manual rotation modes. (All of this applies to both the older white and newer graphite Kindle DX from 2009 and 2010 respectively, the only different is the screen, case color and the U.S./3G wireless variants.)

As a small reminder of years past, Kindle DX also comes standard with a (U.S.) charger, in addition to the USB cable - just like the first Kindle generations did.

Screen:

The big thing, literally the big thing, about Kindle DX is of course the screen. It has grown 3.7" from the regular Kindle and by 224 x 400 in pixels to 824 x 1200 pixels (beating even the PW, which is 758 x 1024). The pixels haven't increased quite as much as the screen-size has, though, so PPI is down from 167 ppi on regular non-PW Kindles to 150 ppi on the Kindle DX. Indeed, Kindle DX has the worst pixels-per-inch of any Kindle. The PPI isn't bad, but it is noticeably more pixellated than the average Kindle. It isn't really visible once you get to reading though, but on broader inspection it isn't hard to see.

Looking at the Kindle DX screen and my old Kindle 3 Keyboard side by side, they are definitely of the same breed. Text blackness is pretty much equal, meaning blacker text than Kindle 2 or my Kindle PW, but less black than on my $79 Kindle 4 and $69 Kindle 5. All in all, the contrast is perfectly fine. I'd call it good, even.

The screen is surprisingly nice. It does take some getting used to, reading from such a large e-ink screen, but it is surprisingly appealing. I like this Kindle DX, I really do. There is some of that magic there that made me fall in love with the earliest Kindle generations. It's just a really nice no-compromises, if anything a little classical flare, regular e-ink reader with a big screen.

Software:

The software is, basically, Kindle 2. About the only thing extra is the above-mentioned automatic screen rotation which works as advertised, but I turned it off from the "Aa" menu because I can't see myself using it much. The larger screen and resolution means more text fits onto the screen and the software makes good use of this. Compared to modern Kindles, it does seem pretty slow though, and there is no option for partial screen refreshes - although the 2.5 softare update has some things like Facebook integration, popular highlights and PDF pan & zoom. As the latter suggests, you can also read PDFs on it (transfer via USB cable or email), which I will get back to in a moment.

Something maybe forgotten in this day an age of glossy black, small Kindles are some of the features Kindle DX has, that Kindle Paperwhites or $69 Kindle 5 do not have. The most important thing is the audio, not only are there speakers on the bottom, there is also a standard 3.5" headphone jack on the top. The headphone placement is a bit odd, but if you need it, it is there (again, it is the same place as in Kindle 2 reminding us of that heritage). What this enables in software, then, are text-to-speech, audio book support and "experimental" MP3 player, which modern e-ink Kindles do not have.

PDFs on Kindle DX:

Logically PDFs sound like a really good potential use of the big screen, but the reality was rumoured to be rather tedious. To quickly test, I loaded four PDFs onto the Kindle DX:

- the Kindle user guide PDF (2.6 MB, 145 pages, https://kindle.s3.amazonaws.com/Kindle%20User%27s%20Guide,%204A%20Ed.%20-%20English.pdf), just as an example what reading a book-like basic PDF would feel like

- an an issue of Engadget Distro e-zine (14.8 MB, 110 pages, http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/distro/072613_DISTRO_book.pdf), full-pictured magazine-like content, but still meant for tablet-sized viewing

- an European Space Agency ESA white paper (12.5 MB, 202 pages, http://www.esa.int/esapub/br/br250/br250.pdf), a landscape PDF with two magazine pages on each page

- another ESA white paper (5,1 MB, 48 pages, http://www.esa.int/esapub/br/br176/br176.pdf), this time in portrait A4 pages

What I noticed with the PDFs is: When they work, they actually work really well, if you don't have to pan and zoom, because that's a pain (you press Aa, then choose from fit-to-screen, 150%, 200%, 300% or actual size - and the use the joystick to move around the screen) and you can't reflow a PDF. But if you do just fit-to-screen, and thanks to the size of the Kindle DX there is plenty of screen, reading is no easier or harder than reading any Kindle book. For example, the Kindle user guide PDF works really well, I'd even go as far as to say it works better than the included Kindle book version.

Engadget Distro works really well too, it opens up snappily - only some pages with larger pictures tend to load maybe a second or so, other pages load immediately. The font size on Engadget Distro is fine, after all it is sized for iPad viewing which is similarly sized. I do wish Amazon added a 110% option to the size options (or a custom percentage), though, because the Distro has quite wide margins and enlarging the page just a little would enlargen the fonts just so. Color pictures display perfectly adequately in grey and the PDF layout is reproduced faithfully. All in all, if you are just going to read page by page (and not expect going on a fast page-browsing session) from beginning to end, reading Engadget Distro on Kindle DX is very possible. (Too bad Engadget cancelled the magazine itself.)

The biggest challenge was always going to be the "A4 paper" test. An A4 paper, the standard paper size on Europe, is somewhat larger than the entire surface area of Kindle DX - and much larger than its 9.7" screen. The ESA paper is roughly "A3" size, which means two A4 papers side to side. This was a good test to see if the landscape mode helps any and how to pan and zoom such large pages... Well, it wasn't too promising, it actually just crashes the Kindle and reboots automatically. It shows the first page, but no matter what I do, crash is the end-result. Reading online this is something that sometimes happens on e-ink readers, most probably the reader runs out of memory. I'm fairly certain editing the PDF in Adobe Acrobat to smaller size, splitting it or maybe a different version would do the trick - but one needs to be aware of this.

The A4 sized ESA white paper fared better technically and seems to work perfectly, layout-wise. Pragmatically, there are problems. At portrait fit-to-screen, the text becomes quite small. Not impossible to read small, you can still read it, but still a little zooming would do good. If you push the zooming to the lowest level, 150%, it divides the page into roughly four segments that you have to switch between using the joystick. Quite tedious to read a single line and have to pan (rather slowly as you can imagine from e-ink) right just to read the end of the line and then back left to read the next line. Again, having a 110% or 120% zoom options would help because the document has quite large margins and there would be room to zoom a little to make the fonts larger, but 150% is just too much.

How about that landscape mode, then? Well the auto-rotate works quite nicely, it takes a while to react but that's better than suffering from random rotations. This mode does make the use of page turning buttons a little awkward, they are, on the bottom (or if you flip, they are on the top but their direction isn't reversed so arrow "up" actually means "go down" - originally Kindle DX had the less ambiguous NEXT/PREV PAGE printed here like Kindle 2, the "Graphite" version mimicking Kindle 3 has confused this functionality). The good news, though, is that in landscape mode the page is fit to fill the screen sideways and pressing next or previous page takes you to the next or previous segment of the page, so you don't have to pan using the joystick. If you get comfortable with the orientation, this way any regular-sized PDF is probably quite readable. I just wish there were page turning buttons on the shorter edges for this otherwise very useful orientation! Letting the user change to next page with the space bar would be an easy fix, because it is suitably located.

Leather cover and weight:

As the Kindle DX is based on the second-generation Kindle (and probably for practical considerations due to its size), it doesn't have the third-generation Kindle support for lighted covers. Amazon does still sell the regular official leather cover for Kindle DX, though, with the diminutive price sticker mentioned at the start of my post. Judging by Internet posts, this is a revised version of the cover for the "Graphite" generation: The original Kindle DX cover from 2009 has the metallic Amazon Kindle badge on front and no rubber band to close it, similar to the official Kindle 2 leather cover - the older DX cover does apparently use magnets for closing though and is heavier. The leather cover I received is like the Kindle 3 Keyboard non-lit leather cover, with a rubber band with its attached leather Amazon Kindle badge and no metallic badges.

So, this cover belongs to the third Kindle generation and just like the second and third-generation Kindles, the cover attaches to the Kindle via two metallic prongs, the bottom one you first slide the Kindle into and then pull to top one down to fit into the Kindle and lock it into place (to remove, just reverse the process). Once in the case, the Kindle is protected quite well, because the open sides of the case protrude significantly over the edges of the device itself - and you can keep the whole thing closed using the rubber band. When reading, the front of the cover turns to the back of the reader, although it seems a little stiff at least at first.

I do have to say, in and out of the cover, and especially in, Kindle DX is pretty hefty. Without the (non-lighted) cover it weighs 536 grams and with it, 900 grams. In comparison, $69 Kindle 5 is 168 grams naked and 313 grams in its lighted cover, Kindle Paperwhite 3G is 220 grams and 355 grams in its non-lighted cover (all numbers as measured by me on the same scale). So to read, it is probably easiest to rest it onto a pillow or at least on your legs when reading sitting up. Just for comparison, an iPad 4 weighs 650 grams, so Kindle DX is in the same ballpark, less than that without a cover. That said, this doesn't seem to be any kind of a show stopper, but it is something to understand.

Summary:

In the context of my search for the perfect Kindle reading experience, Kindle DX is definitely the odd one out. I wanted to get in on this classic action before the chance is gone. Who knows when we'll see anything of the sort from Amazon, if ever. I do have to say, I wish it was this easy to like the latest Kindles. It really is easy to appreciate the pure, no issues e-ink experience on the Kindle DX and the full host of controls and features of a classic e-ink reading device. The only gripe, really: I wish they hadn't lost the left-side page changing buttons and had better buttons for landscape reading. I get it that it may be too heavy to hold one-handed, and those buttons would have lessened the holding area, but still I do miss them.

Anyway, adding a third-party clip-on light onto the cover could make this a serious contender. Then again, I don't read newspapers or scientific papers on Kindle, and the DX is a bit large for just getting lost into fiction, so there's that... But nevertheless, the first impression is I do like it a lot. Makes for a potentially very useful machine for reading PDF manuals that have larger pages than can be comfortably read on a regular Kindle.

Funny thing. There were moments when I held the Kindle DX in my hands and got the distinct impression I was looking at an enlarged Kindle 3 - the leather cover hides the difference of the back and looking from an angle even the keyboard down there looks pretty similar. It felt almost comical, like the device was a mockup of sort, a joke.

But it's a good joke.


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## FearIndex

Thanks to some friends/relatives, I had a chance to briefly check side-to-side four $69 Kindles in black (aka Kindle 5 or Kindle 4B to some folks). As some have had different experiences as to how black the $69 Kindle text actually is, I thought it would be useful to see what the variances are - so people can adjust their expectations and understand where others may be coming from. There are some differences between late 2012 and late 2013 models, at least if these samples are anything to go by.

Differences between late 2012 and late 2013 $69 Kindles:

- Late models have 2013 copyright on the box and a smaller Kindle logo on the box (like Paperwhite 2)
- Not sure if this is a model or U.S. vs. international model, but out of these the 2012 model has a B023 and 2013 models 9023 serial number
- All the 2013 models have slightly warmer screen backgrounds and little less black text than the 2012 model, 2012 is blackest/coldest

All of these Kindles, in isolation, are perfectly fine screen-wise. But it is in comparison that one can see the difference.

Here is a photo, the 2012 model in the bottom left corner which has visibly the blackest blacks.

The camera/ambient lighting makes the two top Kindles look a little more grey texted than they actually are, but all three 2013 models do have greyer text than the 2012 model:










Bigger photo: http://imageshack.us/a/img41/4633/a8vr.jpg

Of course, even in the grey $79 Kindle aka Kindle 4 launch in 2011 some were reporting contrast issues, so these may be overall variances - or they may be year-to-year differences. But it is good to understand that some contrast variance will be part of the game even on the $69 Kindle. Like I reported on the lighted Kindle covers LED differences, some variance is there too.


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## Toby

Thanks again for a great review. I have the K4 & though the text is dark & very readable, I was curious about the K5. Now, that you said that it might or might have darker text, I'll wait, since my K4 is still going strong.


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## FearIndex

Toby said:


> Thanks again for a great review. I have the K4 & though the text is dark & very readable, I was curious about the K5. Now, that you said that it might or might have darker text, I'll wait, since my K4 is still going strong.


Yes, it would be interesting to see other impressions on 2013-bought $69 Kindles. Are the all a little lighter than late 2013 $69 Kindles or is it just some batch or unit to unit variances?


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## FearIndex

Finally got my Paperwhite 2, it is here on the right, next to a PW1 on the left:

I have posted my first impressions review and a bigger picture in the review section.


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## northofdivision

Personally, I'm a big fan of the older Sony 650prs 6" and 350prs 5" (be sure not to get the prs300 *older model*) Paid 30$ each for them...The font pack allows you about 20 fonts with control over font weight, contrast and tons of personalization controls. If you're able to do a little workaround with calibre in regard to files, they're amazing readers that give you both touch turning via screen or manual button page turning. Build quality is amazing. Unfortunately, if you're azw only Kindle files and don't have .mobi and .epub, many of us are stuck in Amazon's book ecosystem. Truly a shame because they're great readers. Latter pic are my PW2 and K4 with personalized screensavers.


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## FearIndex

Thank you for adding those insights and images to the discussion, northofdivision!

I must look into the alternatives one day.

Many PW type of device likers have considered Kobo Aura.


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## northofdivision

I'm very curious of the Kobo Aura.  That flushed bezel is appealing and I wonder how it performs/build quality.  

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## SusanCassidy

The K5 is, and always has been, the Kindle Touch, not the 69 Basic version.


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## Ann in Arlington

SusanCassidy said:


> The K5 is, and always has been, the Kindle Touch, not the 69 Basic version.


Actually, it seems to me that most people call the touch, the touch. And the basic, the basic...or mini or baby. Most don't use K4 or K5 because of the high possibility of confusion.

Betsy will correct me if necessary, but I actually thought the touch and the first basic model came out at the same time, so to say one is 4 and the other is 5 is a bit arbitrary.

It is true that one could go by the firmware main numbers, but by that criteria, the PW is also 5. 

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk HD


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## Toby

You are right, Ann. I also call my K4 the baby kindle, but don't here as I don't want to confuse people. The PW2 is really the 6th generation of kindles - the K4 & Touch, the K5 & PW1, now the PW2.


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## Ann in Arlington

Toby said:


> You are right, Ann. I also call my K4 the baby kindle, but don't here as I don't want to confuse people. The PW2 is really the 6th generation of kindles - the K4 & Touch, the K5 & PW1, now the PW2.


People would totally understand 'baby kindle'. 

As to the other, I think the thing is the tree has branched -- hence the confusion.

So K1 is the root.

Then K2.

Then a single branch off the K2 part of the trunk to the DX. Which later was upgraded to the DXG -- little better screen etc.

Then the K3 on top of the K2 part of the trunk -- but it came in multiple flavors: with or without WiFi. So did the trunk branch there or what? I don't think so, really, they're just some leaves. 

On top of THAT is the basic and the Touch and the trunk definitely branches here, I think, because you're talking about two very different input systems. The later PW's grow off the Touch side of the trunk. The basic side has an updated model, but I think it's the same OS number.

Fires are whole 'nother tree from a cutting someone took at the Touch level.  It mutated.


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## Toby

Yes, that too.


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## FearIndex

SusanCassidy said:


> The K5 is, and always has been, the Kindle Touch, not the 69 Basic version.


I disagree. Not all call it that.

I agree that the logic of using the firmware major number exists on some forums - and Kindle Touch was called 5 in some places, because of its firmware. But that logic fell flat on its face when PW also became 5. Is it also Kindle 5?

There is pertinent logic behind calling $69 Kindle the Kindle 5. It is the fifth product to bear the name "Kindle", without any other monikers. Kindle was first, then Kindle 2, then Kindle 3 (only later renamed Kindle Keyboard), then just Kindle (fourth generation) and then a new Kindle with a new color and a new pricepoint, aka Kindle 5. Wikipedia calls the $69 Kindle as Kindle 5, as do many on KB.

I can see that there is some logic to calling Kindle 5 just a variant of Kindle 4, and thus Kindle 4B, but I also think calling it the Kindle 5 is way more logical than labeling Kindle Touch as Kindle 5, which seems very illogical because it isn't called "Kindle" at all, but "Kindle Touch". It isn't fifth Kindle Touch either, it is the first Kindle Touch. And even if we were to think Kindle Touch should be Kindle 5 because it is the fifth Kindle model, it should be called Kindle 6 because of Kindle DX.

And... PW isn't called Kindle 5, why would it be, it is called Kindle Paperwhite and logically PW2 is Paperwhite 2, not suddenly something else due to firmware numbering.

Really, I have been trying to make the "Kindle Touch is Kindle 5" logic work in my mind, but I just can't see how we can justify calling it that anymore. It just doesn't work. We could decide to call the $69 Kindle black as Kindle 4B instead of Kindle 5, I can see some logic in that, but I think calling it Kindle 5 makes sense as it was announced as part of the fifth-generation and the grey color was faded out.

Let's face it: Amazon changed the game and numbering Kindles by their firmware versions no longer works. It makes more sense to number them by their name and how many generations there are of that name. Hence Kindle Touch is Kindle Touch, if there ever is another Kindle Touch, the next one would be Kindle Touch 2. PW is PW or now PW1, PW2 is PW2, the next one is PW3 etc. It just makes so much more sense than looking at the firmware numbers.

Just my opinion, of course.


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## FearIndex

Good points Ann, about the branching.



Ann in Arlington said:


> Then a single branch off the K2 part of the trunk to the DX. Which later was upgraded to the DXG -- little better screen etc.


DXG being called that instead of DX2 would support calling the $69 Kindle black as Kindle 4B instead of Kindle 5, the upgrade was similar in nature.

I have nothing against Kindle 4B as a name, I think it makes sense. I think calling Kindle 4B as Kindle 5 also makes sense to me, the fifth-generation product named "Kindle". I could also live with calling DXG the DX2, but I agree DXG is so widely used and makes sense, there is no point in trying to change that.

But I don't see any current logic in calling Kindle Touch the Kindle 5. I think if some call it that, a change - due to later events if nothing else - would seem warranted.


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## northofdivision

Ok. Baby kindle it is! 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Ann in Arlington

FearIndex said:


> Good points Ann, about the branching.
> 
> DXG being called that instead of DX2 would support calling the $69 Kindle black as Kindle 4B instead of Kindle 5, the upgrade was similar in nature.
> 
> I have nothing against Kindle 4B as a name, I think it makes sense. I think calling Kindle 4B as Kindle 5 also makes sense to me, the fifth-generation product named "Kindle". I could also live with calling DXG the DX2, but I agree DXG is so widely used and makes sense, there is no point in trying to change that.
> 
> But I don't see any current logic in calling Kindle Touch the Kindle 5. I think if some call it that, a change - due to later events if nothing else - would seem warranted.


Note that Amazon never called any of them K1 or K2 or anything. When there was one Kindle it was kindle. When the next model came out, it was the Kindle. If they every referred to the earlier one, they called it the 'previous generation'. And as soon as they released more than one distinctly different new one in the same year, the numbering stopped working. 

When they released the Touch and the basic, the basic is the Kindle, and the Touch is the Kindle Touch. At that time they had not yet phased out the K3 so they referred to it as the Kindle Keyboard. And they've always called the PaperWhite the PaperWhite. _WE Here_ specify PW1 or PW2 to distinguish which model year it's from. Though they do have the indicator on the strip across the top of "New" on the WiFi only model. Presumably when the "New" 3G model is available they'll note it there as well, but currently the 3G model for sale is last year's model.

As to the DX, again, amazon only ever called it the DX. They did specify when they released one that would work internationally. When they did the slight upgrade, they changed the case cover to dark gray or 'graphite' and people here decided to use DXG to distinguish it from the previous year's models.


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## FearIndex

Ann in Arlington said:


> Note that Amazon never called any of them K1 or K2 or anything. When there was one Kindle it was kindle. When the next model came out, it was the Kindle. If they every referred to the earlier one, they called it the 'previous generation'. And as soon as they released more than one distinctly different new one in the same year, the numbering stopped working.


Good point. I actually remembered they called Kindle 2 by a number, but now that I check you are right they didn't. iPad confusing my mind, maybe! My receipt for it says "Kindle Wireless Reading Device (6" Display, Global Wireless, Latest Generation)". It wasn't even that many years ago, but so the memory plays tricks. 

I didn't think they called the next one Kindle 3 though, as I do remember the ambiguity there. It was "Kindle Wireless Reading Device, Wi-Fi, 6" Display, Graphite - Latest Generation". I tried to point out that the Kindle Keyboard moniker came later - thus it was logical for us to call it Kindle 3, because it was the third product named Kindle without other monikers.

I think the numbering works best when you simply associate it with the name of the product and the generation. So, products named Kindle 1-5, products named Kindle Paperwhite 1-2, products named Kindle Touch 1-1 so far...  I do agree sometimes it might be useful to skip advancing the number and just call the product by a new color, like DXG or maybe 4B instead of 5.

The big "problem", of course, is what to call it if Amazon ever launched a completely new basic Kindle? To me, Kindle 6 would make sense, but what about all those people who feel the $69 Kindle is Kindle 4... Then again, if they feel Kindle 5 is Kindle Touch, Kindle 6 should work for them too.


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## Linjeakel

I think we should just blame Amazon for the confusion!

They always called each new 6" model just 'Kindle' as there was only one available at a time. When that changed they realise they'd have to distinguish different models and realised it was too late for numbering so they picked a feature of the design to use. The basic Kindle was just the Kindle, the one we all called K3 became the Kindle Keyboard and the (then) new touch screen model the Kindle Touch. Now we have two generations of Kindle Paperwhite.

I think that in future, all new models except the most basic one at the time, that have a significant new feature, will be known by a name reflecting that feature, like Kindle Paperwhite, but whereas we distinguish between the generations by using numbers, Amazon will just use the name to refer to the current model and refer to the older generations of the same model as 'previous' generation.

Something to remember is that the vast majority of Kindle owners probably don't belong to any boards like this or have a lot of contact with other Kindle users outside their own circle and have no idea what people call the different models. They just have their 'Kindle' and that's it - they're too busy reading to care!


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## HappyGuy

Well, at least it's not as bad as it is with cars where each one seems to have an obligatory 2 letters and a number designation (BX3, ZR5, OH3, etc.) which have NOTHING to do with the release number of the auto!


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## Leslie

This refers to e-Ink Kindles, not the Fire.

Digging deep, I have discovered that Amazon actually refers to Kindles by generation, based on the Firmware they are running. They also refer to them by name (ie, Keyboard, Touch). 

Kindle (1st generation), Firmware 1.2
Kindle (2nd generation) and DX, Firmware 2.5.8
Kindle Keyboard (3rd generation), Firmware 3.4
Kindle (4th generation), or "the baby Kindle", Firmware 4.1.1

All the Kindles with the Touch screen are in the 5th Generation (the dawning of the Age of Aquarius?)

Kindle Touch (5th generation), Firmware 5.3.7
Kindle Paperwhite, 1st generation (5th generation), <-- I don't have my 1st gen PW with me to check the Firmware version, and I don't see it listed on the Amazon site (doing a quick scan)
Kindle Paperwhite, 2nd generation (5th generation), Firmware 5.4.0

That's clear as mud...LOL.

L


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## Toby

Very insightful. I do call my DX the DXG.


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## Leslie

I just checked and my Kindle Paperwhite 1st generation (5th generation) has Firmware 5.3.8

L


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## MamaProfCrash

Well, there is a DX and the DXG. The DX was introduced when the Kindle 2 International came out. It had a white bezel. 

The DXG has a black bezel and the Pearl e-ink screen, it was released about a month before the K3 was introduced.

The only difference between the two is the screen but it is a big difference.


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## Trophywife007

Not to put too fine a point on it... (but what the heck, why not?) there was the US DX and the DXi before the DXG.  Oy!


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## simonz

Here is my experience with the PW1.

After reading the comments on this thread, I canceled my PW2 order, as it seems like a small incremental upgrade from my PW1.  I like the PW1, but not in love with it.  At times it seems hard on the eyes.  It's either too bright and washed out or dim and grey. My other Kindle is the K3 Keyboard with an Amazon lighted cover with the notorious two hook connecting hinge. This is an improvement over the K2, but I never did like the Amazon cover or other lighting solutions available.

I did take note of the posts by FearIndex on this thread about the $69 K5 having the best contrast and that matching the Amazon lighted cover is a good pair. So, I ordered both and took them for a test drive.  So far this is the best Kindle combination I have owned.  The K5 e-ink screen is excellent and when using the light it is very pleasing to the eyes.  The black bezel helps bring out the contrast of the screen more than the K3 graphite version. It's good to have the physical page buttons back vs the touch screen on my PW1. Some how the K5 seems more responsive and has apparent faster page turns than the PW1.  It is a gem of a e-reader.

I'll give away the K3 Keyboard and keep the PW1 as a backup, with the K5 the primary reader.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare)

simonz said:


> Here is my experience with the PW1.
> 
> After reading the comments on this thread, I canceled my PW2 order, as it seems like a small incremental upgrade from my PW1. I like the PW1, but not in love with it. At times it seems hard on the eyes. It's either too bright and washed out or dim and grey. My other Kindle is the K3 Keyboard with an Amazon lighted cover with the notorious two hook connecting hinge. This is an improvement over the K2, but I never did like the Amazon cover or other lighting solutions available.
> 
> I did take note of the posts by FearIndex on this thread about the $69 K5 having the best contrast and that matching the Amazon lighted cover is a good pair. So, I ordered both and took them for a test drive. So far this is the best Kindle combination I have owned. The K5 e-ink screen is excellent and when using the light it is very pleasing to the eyes. The black bezel helps bring out the contrast of the screen more than the K3 graphite version. It's good to have the physical page buttons back vs the touch screen on my PW1. Some how the K5 seems more responsive and has apparent faster page turns than the PW1. It is a gem of a e-reader.
> 
> I'll give away the K3 Keyboard and keep the PW1 as a backup, with the K5 the primary reader.


Did you try the Simple Light by Grant Technology for the K3? It was a very good solution, totally adjustable, and uses the battery of the Kindle. It attaches to the side and I had a lightweight flip style cover and could leave the light on it at all times. I dont know if they still make the light but I love mine. Of course, I do like the (even less than perfect) lighting of the PW1 better but it's a really nice accessory. Was cheap too.


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## FearIndex

simonz said:


> Here is my experience with the PW1.
> 
> After reading the comments on this thread, I canceled my PW2 order, as it seems like a small incremental upgrade from my PW1. I like the PW1, but not in love with it. At times it seems hard on the eyes. It's either too bright and washed out or dim and grey. My other Kindle is the K3 Keyboard with an Amazon lighted cover with the notorious two hook connecting hinge. This is an improvement over the K2, but I never did like the Amazon cover or other lighting solutions available.
> 
> I did take note of the posts by FearIndex on this thread about the $69 K5 having the best contrast and that matching the Amazon lighted cover is a good pair. So, I ordered both and took them for a test drive. So far this is the best Kindle combination I have owned. The K5 e-ink screen is excellent and when using the light it is very pleasing to the eyes. The black bezel helps bring out the contrast of the screen more than the K3 graphite version. It's good to have the physical page buttons back vs the touch screen on my PW1. Some how the K5 seems more responsive and has apparent faster page turns than the PW1. It is a gem of a e-reader.
> 
> I'll give away the K3 Keyboard and keep the PW1 as a backup, with the K5 the primary reader.


Thank you for your comments, simonz. Great to hear I could help.

While I personally thought the lighted cover in Kindle 3 was the best Amazon lighted cover so far, I do agree it is a big cumbersome in some ways. While the Kindle 3 cover had the best light in my opinion, the tight fit of the Kindle 4/5 cover is an improvement from a practical point of view. Personally I wish the Kindle 4/5 cover would match the great light of the Kindle 3 cover and the quality of its leather, but can't have everything. 

I will probably keep a PW2, but the one I'm having is likely going back for replacement. I can't stand the crooked screen.

As for my main reading partner, the $69 Kindle 5 with the official Amazon lighted cover and my cardboard mod to cover light glare from shining into eyes is still my preferred solution. It is just excellent. I'd love to have some of the PW features there, but for pure reading pleasure it is the best I have found for myself.


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## FearIndex

I thought I owed you guys one more report, so here goes...

Well, I decided to get a replacement for my PW2 - mostly due to its slanted screen and secondarily because of the pin-hole or two. Getting a replacement was a bit hard, because the Amazon support spent the better part of one day forwarding me from one attendant to another - I went through like 15 different people, each time getting to re-explain and most of the time asked for some info or another before being forwarded again - eventually forcing me to try another day. Re-trying next day it was sorted out on the second attendant and I got the replacement quickly.

Turns out, I got a good one. The new screen isn't quite as bright as the first PW2, it is somewhere in-between my PW1 and the first PW2 in brightness, but that's actually a good thing - the light is more even. There is none of the bottom right corner light-leakage and overall the "stage lighting" on the bottom edge of the new unit is the least pronounced of the three. I mean, like on all PW2s I believe, the stage lighting still shows there when you look very closely, but compared to the glare in PW1 it has now practically disappeared. The screen is yellowish like the first PW2, but it is a nice shade. PW1 with the light on looks very blue compared to the two PW2's.

The most important thing is, my second PW2 screen is straight and there are no pin-holes or specks I can see. I can't begin to describe how big of a difference this actually makes. There are no glaring defects with the screen, like there has been with my PW1 and PW2, which takes one major hurdle out of the way of enjoyment. I can now look at the menu without seeing crooked top bars and patchy, uneven corner graphics that really take away from the quality feel - let alone reading slanted text on my previous PWs. As far as what one can expect to get from a PW2, I believe, this unit is a keeper. So, unless something surprising surfaces over the next days, the first PW2 is going back and this one stays with me. Text blackness is okayish, like on all my PWs, clearly less black than my $69 baby Kindle, but it isn't bad. I think the text blackness on the new may be a sliver under the first PW2, but it is okay in both - not great, but okay.

That's the good news. The bad news? Well, the lighting of course isn't perfectly even - and when using the light high up, the text gets that milky look that happens on all PWs. Looking at a lit screen is still more taxing to the eyes in darkness than using a top down reading light that shines more evenly all over. The middle of the screen is still darker than the corners, but on the new PW2 unit this seems more even than before - the edges are more even and the darker area sort of expands more evenly in the middle making it look a lot more natural than the patchiness of either of my older units. For whatever reason, the remaining unevenness of the PW2 lighting seems to bother me much less on the new unit than before. Has it improved enough to cross a mental threshold? I don't know, but I do know it is good enough to keep anyway. The PW1 is actually quite terrible compared to the latest PW2 unit I got, no wonder I didn't get along with it. The first PW2 was still noticeably bad in my eyes (although better than the PW1), but the new PW2 invoked a better feeling.

I actually never expected to use the new PW2 that much, because the $69 baby Kindle is that good and I believe the PWs front-light technology has some inherent limitations (less "natural" e-ink feeling). The $69 baby Kindle, especially the late 2012 units I've seen, have such superior text blackness that the PW2 can't come anywhere close. I also think the case light in the baby Kindle is easier on the eyes in the dark than the PW2 lighting is. But, given my low expectations, I was positively surprised with the replacement PW2. When the screen is finally sort of good enough, it is easier to look past it and at the actually nice features the PW2 has and give it a serious go without cringing.

I don't know, maybe I'll actually get to read some on the darned thing...


----------



## FearIndex

Second part of my replacement Kindle PW2 report:

So, something I never properly (outside of testing runs) did with the first PW2 because I was too annoyed by the flaws on its screen, I actually settled in to read - in darkness - with the new PW2. My best comparison being the PW1 last year, which I also used to do some actual reading on, before settling onto the much nicer basic $69 Kindle for my daily Kindle for the past year.

Anyway, the first thing any pure e-ink lover probably faces with reading a lighted e-ink screen in the dark is trying to come into grips with the tablet or LCD-like feeling. I didn't get into e-ink because it looked like a screen, but because it looked nothing like a screen. The paperlikeness is the magic that attracts me to e-ink and has allowed me to embrace digital books in a way no tablet of mine has ever been able. Those reading in the dark probably know what I mean.

Put the Paperwhite 2 light to the max and no matter any clever frontlight trickery involved, it looks just like an LCD and nothing like electronic paper. I must sing a little praise at this point, though, the consistency of the lighting has gotten to such a level that it didn't give me any worries even when reading in the dark. The light is stronger around the edges than the middle, but it doesn't seem splotchy or patchy anymore. To say it is even or perfect would be a lie, but I do feel it is relatively consistent and personally I got into grips with it very quickly. This is high praise coming from someone who did NOT get into grips with my PW1's screen experience, even though it isn't anywhere as bad as some I've seen online.

So, it became a question of adjusting the PW2 light and could I read comfortably at a level that didn't feel like reading on an LCD in the dark. In the end I read a good hour+ on level 7 I think. It was pleasant enough to the point I forgot about the reader and I do like the touch interface, I already liked it on the PW1 even though I expected to hate the lack of page changing buttons. The touch became especially nice when I had to look up some words in the dictionary, the explanation opening in a nice big window on the screen much appreciated too. I put the new PW2 in my old PW1 official case, and the magnetic cover on/off feature is great too. Also, I appreciated the clearly less weight in my PW2 Wi-Fi compared to PW1 3G.

It is far too early days to say whether or not the PW2 can compete with my trusty baby Kindle, because even at level 7, when reading in the dark some of the e-ink feeling is still lost. Good news is, the screen quality itself was fine and didn't bother me anymore, what bothers me if anything if the principal limitation of this technology concept - it looks like a screen, not like paper. Reading in lighted rooms PW2 works much better because you can actually use the light to control the whiteness of the screen while still looking like electronic paper, the darkness reading scenario continues to be the one area where frontlighted e-ink has a hard time competing with regular e-ink in an integrated lighted case.


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## mlewis78

I don't like reading on my PW2 in a dark room either.  It's too much like a back-lit screen.  I tried it a couple of times and then could not fall asleep afterwards.  My eyes were bothering me.

I wondered about this when the PW1 came out.  In the ads you can see the light on the reader's face, just like it is with a backlit screen.

But I like my PW2 a lot for reading in a moderately- to well-lit room.


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## Leslie

I also don't like reading the paperwhite in a completely dark room. But it works great if I am in a hotel, for example, and the bedside light is not too bright. With the PW, I am able to read (easily and comfortably) whereas with old Kindles, I couldn't have. I was never a fan of portable book lights.

L


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## Ann in Arlington

It actually never occurred to me that the point of the light was to be able to read in a completely dark room. I always considered it as a supplemental source that added just enough to make it comfortable when you are in an area where the lighting is not ideal. Like Leslie, I've never really found clip on book lights suitable. 

As to the ads. . . .of course you see light on the person's face: the screen reflects the light. If it didn't you wouldn't see it.  I think it's still probably better than shining _directly_ into your face, which is the case with most tablet devices -- sort of like how looking at the full moon is fine but you don't want to stare into the sun.  But it's probably something that some people will be more sensitive too than others.

That said, once or twice, I have used it very successfully when I was reading in bed and The Hubs wanted to go to sleep. Usually this isn't a problem because I'm in bed long before he is and am well asleep before he even comes up. But occasionally he comes up the same time or shortly after me. Anyway, for some reason he doesn't care if the radio is playing but claims he can't sleep if there's any light.  (I totally don't get that. I can close/cover my eyes but there's no way I can put in a big enough ear plug to not hear the radio!)

So I put off the bedside lamp and put the light on the PW down low enough for me to be able to see without glare. Given that it was not pointing toward _him_ it didn't bother him. Of course, I could have just stopped reading and gone to sleep myself -- but I didn't want to.  It worked just fine and, as my eyes adjusted to the surrounding darkness, I found I could lower the light to a very very low setting and still see just fine.


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## FearIndex

Thanks for the comments, guys. I already thought last year that one problem with I had issues with PW some others didn't face, was because I read in the dark (with the help of the lighted covers) and many others use external lighting. I will have to see if I can settle on a light level that would be comfortable in the dark - the $69 Kindle with its integrated light works well in the darkness scenario for me, but of course I would love to be able to enjoy some of the advanced features in PW2 when reading in darkness too.

Third report with the replacement PW2:

This time I got to reading during the dark evening, but with some in-door lighting. I think this was the best Paperwhite reading experience so far for me. I still think PW2 works best when there is some other light/lighting available, the contrast between dark surroundings and a lit screen isn't so big then. Also, one can use the light to whiten the page and increase reading lighting just so, without making it look like an LCD screen...

I was reading at light level 15, which does make the screen glow a little, but the overall experience was pleasant. There were a moment or two when I noticed unevenness in the lighting in the middle of the screen, but it was more academic than a worry - as said, the evenness has improved to a reasonable level. I got lost in the book and that's a good thing. Changing pages and using the dictionary with touch is very nice, that part I liked especially considering the page changing keys in the $69 Kindle are a bit small.

The swipes and the touch areas are a bit confusing when reading on left and right hands alternatively, but I mostly got used to it - sometimes I was changing pages into the wrong direction. Using the dictionary in PW2 requires long pressed of the word, because there are other functions (highlighting etc.) there as well. In my use it would be nice if only a short press would be needed for the dictionary, but still using the dictionary is much easier on the PW2 than on the $69 Kindle.

I was reading with Caecilia at size four and found the blacks perfectly serviceable. I didn't feel like needing to hack in darker fonts or the like. Looking side by side with the $69 Kindle, the blacks on the PW2 are clearly worse, but they were good enough to read on today. The slightly decreased weight of the PW2 compared to PW1 (especially since mine are PW2 Wi-Fi vs. PW1 3G) is also welcome, although with the case it is still a little heavier than the lighted $69 Kindle. The official PW2 cover works very nicely too and the quality is higher than that of the $69 Kindle case - love the magnetic on/off latch.

I'm especially impressed with the PW2 main menu, with the books and sharp graphics, now that my screen isn't slanted and the lighting is even enough to get to appreciate the graphics. A splotchy, crooked screen really messes with the beauty of this - and with my replacement PW2 I can finally use that menu in a way that let's me enjoy it.

I still think there is the possibility I will never get to grips with reading on the PW2 in "absolute" darkness. It is possible it isn't very goot at that, for my use, because keeping the light low enough makes it harder to read. But so far I am genuinely warming up to the PW2 otherwise - as long as one can find a unit they are comfortable with, unfortunately that is still quite the hit and miss...


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## MamaProfCrash

I read in a completely dark room and love it but that is me


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Me, too...I love that I can move from a lit room to a dark room and keep reding.  I hardly ever trip  over anything. 


Betsy


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## VictoriaP

Another full dark reader here, and for me, the PW2 is hands down more evenly lit than any book light or lighted cover I've ever seen.

That said, I do best reading at 14 in an average lit room, dropping it down to about 10-11 in full dark. At that lower level, I do see a bit of shadowing in the center of the screen when I first start. However, after a minute or so of reading in the dark like that, I stop noticing it. It seems to be way less distracting than other lighting setups I've used.

FearIndex, I'm glad to see your replacement PW2 is working out a bit better for you!


----------



## FearIndex

VictoriaP said:


> Another full dark reader here, and for me, the PW2 is hands down more evenly lit than any book light or lighted cover I've ever seen.
> 
> That said, I do best reading at 14 in an average lit room, dropping it down to about 10-11 in full dark. At that lower level, I do see a bit of shadowing in the center of the screen when I first start. However, after a minute or so of reading in the dark like that, I stop noticing it. It seems to be way less distracting than other lighting setups I've used.
> 
> FearIndex, I'm glad to see your replacement PW2 is working out a bit better for you!


Thank you. I'd say it is working significantly better than the previous units.

Yes, I think the unevenness of the PW2 light guide shows the most at around 10+ in dark. Put the light very high or very low, the unevenness of darker middle and lighter edges shows less. The "stage lighting" on the bottom is still there, too, but it is a LOT less pronounced than on the PW1 - again, that too shows most in the middle brightness range. I also agree no clip-on or integrated cover light is fully even either. That just bothered me less because it isn't part of the screen, but a light that lands on the entire device - it feels natural, the way it falls down on the page like any external lamp. The expectations for the quality of a light integrated into the screen itself are higher, at least for my perception.

That said, I'm not too worried about light evenness when it is at the level my replacement PW2 has reached. If they can improve on the quality assurance and deliver this consistently by PW3, or even better, I think the frontlighting will get out from its infancy and more e-ink enthusiasts will enjoy it too. The biggest deal, still, for me with PW2 is reading in complete darkness. I love the pure e-ink feeling with a good integrated reading light in the cover, it looks and feels like snuggling into bed with a good book and a flashlight or something. PW2 does feel quite a bit like reading on a screen and that is the biggest drawback for me.

I read in complete darkness yesterday, light at 7 again, and it worked OK though. Light evenness wasn't any kind of issue, a bigger one was that the text and the page were feeling quite dark by that stage - but going much up from the light level would have meant getting that LCD feeling (and disturbing future sleep) and that's no good either.

Anyway, at the very least I'm liking the PW experience finally, with my replacement PW2. It just remains to be seen if the PW experience itself is the best (or not) for my particular use cases. Anyway, I'm keeping this unit - it is a keeper.


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## FearIndex

Paperwhite 2 status update:

So, the first Paperwhite 2 is going back, has been wrapped for UPS and will return to base. The second Paperwhite 2 is a keeper, as I said, and nothing has happened to change this - so I'm sticking to it.

In fact, I am happy to report I have completed two books on the PW2, which is two more than I ever completed on my PW1. I have actually not read on my $69 Kindle 5 that much since getting the replacement PW2, although no denying the basic Kindle has better blacks, and a better screen/light for reading in "absolute" darkness. There is still newness to the PW2 that makes it intriguing to try out.

Most of my reading on the PW2 has been in the dark, though, but some with some ambient lighting - the light is quite nice and useful in the latter scenario. In the dark I use 6-8, in some ambient lighting maybe 10(ish) light levels. As said, the screen isn't completely evenly lit, and this shows best in the middle light levels when there is little ambient lighting to even it out, go very low or very high and any unevenness hidden better. I think 10-15 is probably the "worst" range. But also as said, my PW2 is good enough to have crossed a very important mental threshold and I do get lost into reading on it. I wouldn't have completed two books on it, if this weren't the case.

I still think reading in darkness is a little problematic. Not because of screen quality issues, I don't see any significant unevenness in levels 6-8, and text blackness is OK... but the screen is pretty dark at that stage and going much up gets jarring and weary on the eyes, when there is very little or no ambient lighting. The contrast between the lit screen and the dark surroundings is very sharp (unlike on a case-lit basic Kindle) and the e-ink feeling is replaced by a more screen-like experience. No doubt, PW2 with its extra layers does look more screenish and less like paper, compared to the basic Kindle. Then again, I seem to nowadays spend maybe 30 seconds of pondering that and next time notice two hours later that I should have gone asleep an hour ago. Perhaps it just really is good enough for me.

One thing I do love almost unequivocally is the PW2 software. It really is nice to use pop-up footnotes and finger-pointing for footnotes and dictionary - that is a major, major upside in my use. Also, writing text is much easier on the touchscreen than on the $69 Kindle 5 of course. Finally, the cover view is just so nice and really makes the books I'm reading that bit more concrete. Were Amazon to make a non-lit version of this device, with a lighted cover integration, and I'd be all over that in three microseconds. I know PW2 has many other kinds of great features too, but I don't really use or need any others. One thing I miss from the $69 Kindle 5 is the reading progress bar. I wish they'd give that back.

Anyway, I now have two Kindles I keep charged and will alternate between them as I see fit, PW2 and the $69 Kindle 5 in the official lighted cover. I am glad to see I can enjoy both now.

Finally, updated PW2 to 5.4.2 yesterday and have Goodreads even on my international Amazon.com account, which is nice although I don't expect to use it anytime soon. Let's close with just a note on how the Cloud Collections work - not an issue for me since I don't use collections, but I did explore how they behave.



> By the way, I explored today how the Cloud Collections actually work.
> 
> Turns out, only "Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HD (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HDX, and Kindle for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch" actually update Cloud Collections in real-time as of now. Make cloud changes on these devices/apps, and they will show in other listed devices/apps.
> 
> For any other Kindle or Kindle app, including Kindle for PC which I tested quite a bit today (the latest version), category import is a one-time, one-way deal. One-time meaning the time you update to 5.4.2 or the time you register a device or reading up for the first time. So, the first time you update or register a 5.4.2 PW2, it will import collections from Kindle for PC and other types of older devices, but after that if you change something in those older devices or the current Kindle for PC version, those changes will NOT come to PW2.
> 
> Of course it is possible Amazon will update other apps and devices to support "real-time" Cloud Collections later.
> 
> Here is Amazon's help text on it:
> 
> "To import a collection: With Cloud Collections, collections are automatically stored in the Cloud and can be synced between Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HD (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HDX, and Kindle for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch reading apps.
> 
> Note: Importing collections from other devices or reading apps to Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HD (2nd Generation), Kindle Fire HDX, and Kindle for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch is currently limited to the first time you register the device or reading app."


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## FearIndex

Next report:

Paperwhite 2's magic fading a little?

Reading l_macd's comments (over at MobileRead) on PW2 reading in low-light got me writing some of the thoughts last night's reading session invoked me with the PW2. As my relationship with my PW2 "normalizes", as the newness rubs off but also as I get accustomed to it, I think I'm beginning to really feel the one big thing I always - even before seeing a Paperwhite 1 - thought is the problem with this technology.

First of all, I don't find my PW2 screen defective or with major issues. Its lighting is even-enough, the screen isn't crooked and doesn't have pin-hole, the text blackness while not at $69 Kindle levels is still more than passable. I like the resolution and graphics it shows, the beautiful UI etc. PW2 screen, for me, has crossed a mental threshold and I think my replacement unit represents what one could call a "good PW2". It is a keeper. I can read on it without noticing flaws in the screen, they got the technology to that point - and for that I applaud Amazon. Fix the QA and get this into every buyers hands and lots less would complain.

But, and there is this one constant "but", that I feared would be there from the moment I pre-ordered the Paperwhite 1 before its release last year - and last night began to feel affecting the enjoyment again. I don't feel like I'm reading a book, I feel like I'm reading a screen. I think the fact that I've been reading non-fiction on my PW2 so far has shielded me from this, but trying to settle into fiction I found myself having difficulty of suspending disbelief, living the author's world.

The one thing that has been great since my first Kindle, the Kindle 2, is reading it at night, like a book. With the Kindle 2 I used an external reading lamp, but since Kindle 3 the integrated lighted covers have removed the necessity of a reading lamp. And with this setup, e-ink does its magic beautifully for me, I feel like tucked in with a good book, the darkness and the written world taking me away to places. That has, for me, been the magic of e-ink - it replicates a printed book, the integrated lighted covers and e-books just making it all more convenient than real books.

And I'm just not sure PW2 does that sufficiently in my reading scenario. Were I to use external lighting, obviously I could turn the PW2 light down and be content, but even that isn't quite as simple. On PW2 the text isn't, thanks to those light and touch layers, quite there on the top of the screen like printed text or regular e-ink is normally. Also, were I to use such external (e.g. clip-on) lighting as I do with regular e-ink Kindles, the slightly more textured layers on top of PW2 screen would show more than the even e-ink of regular Kindles, further decreasing the look and feel of a faux printed page because with a light so close those things matter. And of course, since PW2 doesn't support reading lights, a clip-on light would need to be battery powered - further inconvenience.

PW2 is probably at its best when reading in sufficient ambient lighting, with its own light set just so that it isn't visible, but helping offset insufficient ambient lighting. I can see how PW2 does help in these scenarios. But in darkness, I feel like needing to push the lighting way down (to 6-8 range) to decrease the feel of looking at an LCD screen, and then it becomes awfully dark - and still, with the slightly bluish (it is bluish in that scenario even though my PW2 looks quite yellow compared to PW1) rectangle staring you in the face in the darkness, I just can't quite espace the feeling that I'm looking at a screen, even squiting at a screen because making out the text gets a bit harder at those light-levels...

Last night, for the first time since I got the replacement, good PW2, I not only thought of returning to my $69 Kindle "5" again (I've done that often as I've compared these moders), I actually set out to do so after a stint on the PW2 - but then felt so tired that decided to go to sleep instead. Didn't happen last night, but for the first time it almost did.

The saddest part is, with PW2 and the $69 Kindle "5", I feel like I'm going to have to compromise one way or the other. I like the touch page change on PW2 (although it could do with a little more configurability), the tapping dictionary and footnote pop-ups, the cover view and the generally far more pleasant UI that adds a nice little touch to the experience - those are important things and I'd love to love the PW2 because of them. On the basic Kindle I like the reading progress bar, but most importantly the darker text and more paper-like/reading-lamp like reading experience - where it just gets easier to dive into the world of the book.

Either way, seems like I'm going to have to compromise.


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## Ann in Arlington

And I still like mine just as well as I always did.   Which is: a LOT!


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## Betsy the Quilter

FearIndex--

You're thinking WAY too much, LOL! Just read! 

I'll confess, I don't much care what I read on, it's all about the same reading experience for me. (My options are K1, K4, Touch, PW, Fire HDX 7" or 8.9", iPad, iPod Touch, Samsung Galaxy S2, and I've read on all of them. And on paper, including cereal boxes, if I have to.) I'll read on what is handy. And charged. (I guess I'm kind of a reading, er,


Spoiler



slut


. I read the one I'm with.  But my PW gets the nod because of weight, battery life, ability to read in virtually any lighting conditions and general ease of use.

Just read. 

Betsy


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## FearIndex

Betsy the Quilter said:


> FearIndex--
> 
> You're thinking WAY too much, LOL! Just read!


This would be a very quiet forum if everyone was just reading. No? 

Joking aside, trust me when I read - I read. Testing sessions aside, when I actually dive into a book, it is to enjoy the book. I only analyze the reader when I'm reporting on it.

But then, that is the problem isn't it... if something in the process bothers diving in, or staying under the spell of the book, then that something is bothersome. It isn't a voluntary effect, whatever "breaks the spell" can certainly vary individually, but if something does, it can be really hard to just bypass it. Those not bothered by the same thing can certainly suggest "just deal with it", but that is pretty easy to say if one is not bothered by the same thing. Much harder to do for someone who is bothered by that thing. In general, the average user is bothered by fewer things than a more knowledgeable enthusiast, so certainly ignorance can be bliss. 

I got through several Kindle generations before I felt the need to think about it. The PW set that in motion and truth be told, I'm still not convinced. But my second PW2 has certainly gotten closer to convincing me, so points for Amazon for that. There is progress, for sure.

For those not concerned by these issues, I recommend ignoring me. I'm not trying to make anyone see issues they are not bothered with, just to help those who are.


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## lindnet

FearIndex said:


> The saddest part is, with PW2 and the $69 Kindle "5", I feel like I'm going to have to compromise one way or the other. I like the touch page change on PW2 (although it could do with a little more configurability), the tapping dictionary and footnote pop-ups, the cover view and the generally far more pleasant UI that adds a nice little touch to the experience - those are important things and I'd love to love the PW2 because of them. On the basic Kindle I like the reading progress bar, but most importantly the darker text and more paper-like/reading-lamp like reading experience - where it just gets easier to dive into the world of the book.


I'd have to agree with this part. I still read on both of them and wish I could have a device with the best of both.


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## FearIndex

lindnet said:


> I'd have to agree with this part. I still read on both of them and wish I could have a device with the best of both.


Thanks for sharing. I fear that the regular e-ink Kindle will eventually be dropped by the wayside, instead of developed further. I prefer the Kindle ecosystem and do like Amazon for many reasons, but the compromises mentioned have certainly made me more conscious of the competition - and I wonder if eventually there will become a day when I have to buy a device outside of the Kindle range. I don't want to, I'd like Amazon to continue developing the best book-like reader experience, but instead they seem to be moving towards tablet type of products even for their e-ink readers.


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## Betsy the Quilter

FearIndex said:


> This would be a very quiet forum if everyone was just reading. No?
> 
> Joking aside, trust me when I read - I read. Testing sessions aside, when I actually dive into a book, it is to enjoy the book. I only analyze the reader when I'm reporting on it.
> 
> But then, that is the problem isn't it... if something in the process bothers diving in, or staying under the spell of the book, then that something is bothersome. It isn't a voluntary effect, whatever "breaks the spell" can certainly vary individually, but if something does, it can be really hard to just bypass it. Those not bothered by the same thing can certainly suggest "just deal with it", but that is pretty easy to say if one is not bothered by the same thing. Much harder to do for someone who is bothered by that thing. In general, the average user is bothered by fewer things than a more knowledgeable enthusiast, so certainly ignorance can be bliss.


I understand that if something bothers you, it bothers you. I guess my thought was more "get past it" not "just deal with it." Sometimes things bother me when I first use something or do something, but eventually I stop noticing it. If you don't, that's a problem, I agree.

My perspective comes from the fact that I get so deep in reading, very little bothers me (ask my husband or my elementary school teachers who were always catching me reading under my desk). I can understand preferences, though.

I do admit to not ever thinking that reading any of my Kindles was like reading a paper book. Better, yes, but never like it.  But then, I guess I'm apparently an average user, blissfully ignorant and not technologically knowledgable. 

Betsy


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## FearIndex

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I understand that if something bothers you, it bothers you. I guess my thought was more "get past it" not "just deal with it." Sometimes things bother me when I first use something or do something, but eventually I stop noticing it. If you don't, that's a problem.


That is not bad advice. Sometimes that can work. For most of the year, I just read - as you may have noticed from me popping in here when new Kindles come.  Last year I went through quite a bit of trouble finding a good Kindle setup within a few weeks, but once I did, I read on that until the PW2 release. Year before that, I had some issues with the $79 Kindle 4S, but after a few evenings of adjustment I got into reading on that and did so until the late 2012 Kindle releases etc. So, at some point, no matter what one is dealing with, it is good to learn how to settle onto something. I agree with that general sentiment. My replacement PW2 is still new to me, but give it some time and I've settled onto some rhythm and that's that. Until then, I think these posts may help someone and I've liked writing them. Maybe PW3 next? 



Betsy the Quilter said:


> My perspective comes from the fact that I get so deep in reading, very little bothers me (ask my husband or my elementary school teachers who were always catching me reading under my desk). I can understand preferences, though.


Sure, I get that. Many enthusiastic readers don't literally notice the world around them when reading. That's the target here, for me too. When you have the reading experience that let's you do that, that's priceless.



Betsy the Quilter said:


> I do admit to not ever thinking that reading any of my Kindles was like reading a paper book. Better, yes, but never like it.  But then, I guess I'm apparently an average user, blissfully ignorant and not technologically knowledgable.


I know, I may be in a minority - and the market certainly seems to be moving into a different direction. I guess most love e-ink because of sun-light visibility and long battery life. Both of those are pretty much irrelevant to me, although I do like both, I rarely require either. What got me personally hooked was the fact that e-ink looks so much like a real book and so little like a screen. PW1/PW2 have lost a little of that magic for me, but I'm torn because they have other stuff I love to have.

Even knowledgeable enthusiasts are bothered by very different things, so my comments are not meant to suggest lack of knowledge by anyone else - just more of a general, self-deprecating acknowledgement that the average person targeted by e.g. Amazon probably doesn't care about any of this, most wouldn't dream of registering on a forum even. I don't know if any of you guys frequent e.g. home theater forums, but the range of likes and dislikes enthusiasts can bicker over is staggering - the only constant usually is, the "average user" probably wouldn't even know where to look for most of the stuff people debate over, let alone be bothered by them.


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## Betsy the Quilter

FearIndex said:


> What got me personally hooked was the fact that e-ink looks so much like a real book and so little like a screen.


Different takes on things--I never thought that the eink screen looked like anything but a screen, albeit a really cool, easy to read, screen. But again, the fact that something is a screen doesn't bother me--it's what I can do with that screen that matters to me.

I never got the romanticism, sometimes expressed here, of missing the feel and smell of paper, either. I just want to read, and my Kindles let me do that more and better than ever.

Different strokes for different folks.

Betsy


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## FearIndex

We are the same on "paper smell", "paper feel" etc., I don't care about such things either. But - and this is where we differ, I see - I do like the fact that regular e-ink reading does look like printed text. Printed text is easier on the eyes than a screen, and it is also less distracting than a lighted screen, because it feels so "natural".

I do admit I like using book-like covers for e-readers. That feels sort of fitting, but mostly I like them because they are practical.


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## Betsy the Quilter

FearIndex said:


> We are the same on "paper smell", "paper feel" etc., I don't care about such things either. But - and this is where we differ, I see - I do like the fact that regular e-ink reading does look like printed text. Printed text is easier on the eyes than a screen, and it is also less distracting than a lighted screen, because it feels so "natural".


I love the look of the eInk screen, and agree that eInk is easier on most people's eyes than a backlit screen, so, I guess it's "book-like" in that way. I'll meet you there. 

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

FearIndex said:


> I do admit I like using book-like covers for e-readers. That feels sort of fitting, but mostly I like them because they are practical.


That is important for many people, to feel like you are holding a book in your hands. The guy who enabled me into Kindle feels that way. Used to do his reading on a Kindle with a cover that would let him hold it open in two hands like a book. I never understood how if the book experience was so important to him, he got past the fact that he was always only reading the right page of the book! Now he reads on a big tablet set up so it is split into two pages like a book. As for me I don't care about such things, as Ann _our local god who might be a Time lord_ put it I just want to read!


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> As for me I don't care about such things, as Ann put it I just want to read!


I think the "other Ann" might have been the one to say that.


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## FearIndex

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I love the look of the eInk screen, and agree that eInk is easier on most people's eyes than a backlit screen, so, I guess it's "book-like" in that way. I'll meet you there.
> 
> Betsy


Sounds fair enough!


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## The Hooded Claw

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I think the "other Ann" might have been the one to say that.


Oops, I have made a correction before the cattle prod comes out!


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> Oops, I have made a correction before the cattle prod comes out!


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## mlewis78

I agree that there is a compromise, but I don't have any problem escaping into the book with my PW2.  My concern is that the light has almost the same effect on my eyes as reading on a tablet.  If I read in bed, the light is in my eyes, but if I use my basic kindle with a clip-on light (Mighty Bright with two bulbs), it doesn't have the effect of light shining in my eyes.

I think that my eyes are more light sensitive than most and that is why most people don't notice this.


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## FearIndex

mlewis78 said:


> I agree that there is a compromise, but I don't have any problem escaping into the book with my PW2. My concern is that the light has almost the same effect on my eyes as reading on a tablet. If I read in bed, the light is in my eyes, but if I use my basic kindle with a clip-on light (Mighty Bright with two bulbs), it doesn't have the effect of light shining in my eyes.
> 
> I think that my eyes are more light sensitive than most and that is why most people don't notice this.


I agree that the frontlight in PWs does not seem or feel to me much different from LCD backlight, thus there is a tabletty feeling when reading on a PW in the dark. This is one angle to why the "page of a book" feeling is lost a little to me on the PW.

Read on the PW2 again last night, light level 6 or 7 I think. Quite blue-looking at this level, pretty dark too but perfectly serviceable. But the compromise and different feel to it is there. Time will tell. Good news is unevenness really isn't at problematic levels (for me) anymore.

Final point, a recent study found that looking at a computer screen before going to sleep can hurt your sleep due to the light shining in your eyes. I wonder if PWs are worse than case-lighted basic Kindles in this regard. Probably. With the case light the lighting more naturally disperses in the surroundings and only reflects towards you, PW is more jarring. OTOH, PW light is adjustable if you can deal with dark pages, which I guess is a plus.


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## FearIndex

This was just a great quote from another site, pseudonym bounce, I had to post it here too - this really reflected well how I feel about the Paperwhite and other frontlit e-ink readers compared to basic Kindle and many other non-lit e-ink readers:



> With my old Kindles and even the Touch I had stolen, there was something of the feeling I had when I was young curled up with a book. PW2 just feels to me like one more screen in my day.


Could not have said it better myself.


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## Ann in Arlington

FearIndex said:


> Final point, a recent study found that looking at a computer screen before going to sleep can hurt your sleep due to the light shining in your eyes. I wonder if PWs are worse than case-lighted basic Kindles in this regard. Probably. With the case light the lighting more naturally disperses in the surroundings and only reflects towards you, PW is more jarring. OTOH, PW light is adjustable if you can deal with dark pages, which I guess is a plus.


I doubt it.

The light is not the 'bluish' color of most tablets -- and the blue light is the real problem for affecting sleep patterns -- nor does it shine directly into your eyes. It is reflected. Of course, on a tablet, the effects can be ameliorated by adjusting the brightness and, if reading, using the sepia setting instead of black on white. And on the PW the light level can be turned way down if there's not a lot of ambient light as well.

I personally find an external clip on light or the case light as is on my basic Kindle to be more annoying and more fatiguing for my eyes and hands because there is 'spot glare' and I have to keep adjusting the angle to keep it off the bit I'm reading. Plus it affects the weight and balance as I hold it. The even lighting of the PW is far superior for me.

That said, I generally don't read in full dark. There is, at least, a bedside lamp, so the lighting on the PW just serves to even things out.


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## FearIndex

My PW2, by the way, on low light levels (like 6-7) is quite blue - even though it is more yellow than my PW1 upwards to the scale.

Anyway, read on the PW2 again last night quite successfully on the 6-7 levels, it is a perfectly acceptable reading experience for me. It does look like a screen, but then it does look like a perfectly acceptable screen. I haven't gotten around to charging my $69 Kindle "5", it was out of juice after my category testing. I'll probably keep both in play and rotate as I see fit, both are now quite usable - even if different compromises.

One more thing about why the PW looses that magical e-ink feeling: dust. I happened to notice this since there were a few dust particles on both of my active-use Kindles.

Seems like a very easy way to notice the difference is dust on the screen. On non-lighted Kindles, like the $69 Kindle "5", if there is dust on the screen, it looks like that dust is on the page of a book - like on printed text basically. Very similar to how dust would look were it on your page of a book. E-ink at its purest is very "magical", it generates e-ink particles right on top of the screen, like it were actually printed there.

On PWs, dust looks quite different. You don't see the PW touch and light layers that sit above its e-ink screen (other than their slight fuzzying/less blackening effect) normally, but if you have dust on the screen or a pin-hole on top on the page (like my first PW2 had), you probably immediately notice a big difference to basic Kindles - the dust is floating above the text, clearly and significantly above the text.

And that is one moment (there are others), where PW looses that e-ink magic and you look like you are looking at a window, instead of a page of a book.


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## Toby

I would not want to go back to a kindle with a cover with the light or a separate light. The lights uneven, heavier cover, having to move the light out of the way. I read my K4 in a lighted room, with a light weight cover on it. I gave my lighted cover away. I read my PW lying down in the dark, but like you, I have more trouble seeing the print. I started to tip the PW towards the back & am seeing the text better. It looks darker. I have sensitive eyes, so I can't see if the light is too low on the PW, but I am able to adjust the light to a nice glow. I agree that I have no problems reading in a lighted room. Maybe, it's a combination of room light & if you are sitting up or lying down reading.
M


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## Betsy the Quilter

I love my PW in the dark.  I usually bump the font size up one or two in low light, though.

Betsy


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## Toby

I do too. I love the front lit lighting. It's even lighting, no more fiddling with lights blocking the page or having to hold a kindle in a heavy lighted cover or lights in ghe cover glaring in my eyes when lying down reading. However, the text does not always look as dark as I would like. Sometimes the text looks gray instead of black. Other times, the text look black. Today, I sat up in a lit room reading on my PW1, & the text looked gray.


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## FearIndex

I appreciate your experiences Betsy and Toby. We all have different likes and that is good to note in the discussion.



Toby said:


> having to hold a kindle in a heavy lighted cover or lights in ghe cover glaring in my eyes when lying down reading.


Just to note, Kindle PW, even PW2, is still heavier when using an official (non-lighted) Amazon case, than $69 Kindle in an official lighted Amazon case. Just a reference for those who use cases anyway. It is true the $69 Kindle official lighted case does have a tendency to shine into eyes, which luckily is fixable with a bit of felt tape or a piece of cardboard as in my signature.



Toby said:


> However, the text does not always look as dark as I would like.


That, of course, is an issue with PWs. The light as well as the extra layers on top of the e-ink screen will take away a little of the text blackness, especially depending on circumstances. You say it happens in certain lighting situations for example, which to me suggests top top-most additional layers (light and touch) on the PW will reflect some ambient lighting and thus make the text appear less black. This is not a problem on the basic $69 Kindle, because it has no additional layers on top of the e-ink screen.


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## FearIndex

A little kudos to the Paperwhite 2 software:

The Vocabulary Builder. I actually always liked the feature, it is very well made in my opinion, but had turned it off because it adds another "book" on the front page (I'd prefer it to just occupy a menu entry or leave the "book" optional) and I didn't think I'd need it. Then today I found myself discussing a word/phrase I had looked up on the PW2 dictionary the previous night, from a book with a little more archaic language. I couldn't quite remember what it was and it actually took me considerable time to find the phrase. You bet Vocabulary Builder is turned back on. With it, it wouldn't have taken me more than 20 seconds to re-discover the word that explained the phrase.

Some more recent notes on the PW2, pretty much just confirming past feelings:

It is a personal preference thing, of course, but I feel the need to fiddle with the PW light to keep it from being too bright (often to the point that it is actually a little too dark but that's the way I think it is "best"). I usually vary between 6-10 nowadays (6 in darkness, around 10 in varying levels of ambient lighting). Definitely there is a more screen-like ambience with PW2 than with basic, non-lighted Kindles. Last night I read in darkness at 6. It was OK, and the light was perfectly acceptable evenness wise etc. (didn't bother me), but not really that great an experience, quite like a dark LCD. I think I may go back to reading on my $69 Kindle "5" in darkness with the lighted cover. But the PW2 is nice for its other features, like touch page change and touch dictionary/footnotes (and Vocabulary Builder), in my opinion.


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## mikeschr

I've owned almost every Kindle since the K3, churning through them so that I usually have only a couple at once.  I liked the paperwhite well enough, but in the end I couldn't get past the feeling that I wasn't looking at the words, but a screen that the words were behind.  I read for a while on the iPad mini Kindle app - the best non-e-ink experience I've had, easily - but again, it had the feeling of a screen.  Every time I move on to something else, I end up coming back to non-lit e-ink.  I still have my Touch, and when I saw recently that the basic Kindle seems to be disappearing from stores, I decided to grab one.  Just after that, the DX went to $169, and I grabbed one of those, too.  Basic e-ink seems to be the only way for me to feel like I'm reading the words and not a screen, which seems essential for me to escape into the book.


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## Toby

I have the K4, the basic kindle. If you had the K4, can you tell me if the K5's, basic kindle, has darker text than the K4?


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## mikeschr

Toby said:


> I have the K4, the basic kindle. If you had the K4, can you tell me if the K5's, basic kindle, has darker text than the K4?


It sounds like you have the basic Kindle with the gray bezel, and want to know if the newer basic Kindle with the black bezel has darker text. In my experience, yes, the text looks a little darker.


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## Toby

Thank you for your answer. FearIndex said the same thing, but she said that she was not sure if the text was as dark on the K5 as when the K5 first came out.


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## Ann in Arlington

FWIW, with the light all the way down, I don't see any difference bewteen an ordinary eInk screen (as is on my basic Kindle) and the PW2 screen.


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## FearIndex

Ann in Arlington said:


> FWIW, with the light all the way down, I don't see any difference bewteen an ordinary eInk screen (as is on my basic Kindle) and the PW2 screen.


The difference then, is much less, that is true. I still think blacks are inferior on the PWs and the additional layers can show especially if you have dust or something on the screen that floats way above the text, whereas on basic Kindles it floats right on the text, making it look more paper-like, but I get it that others feel differently. I also think the topmost layers in PWs may also reflect ambient light a little more than just the e-ink screen, some others have also noted a slightly increased washout potential. But yes with those small caveats in mind, turn down the PW light and it does look e-ink-like, not screen-like - I agree.

Way back last year I actually pondered getting a clip-on light for PW and using it with the light turned off, but lack of suitable integrated casing and the above cons in mind I forgot about it.


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## fancynancy

Same here except that I can't read at all on my ipad mini, but, although it seems odd to me, I love to read on my iphone 5. It's the only non-e-ink device I enjoy reading on. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with that. Less screen to cause glare? Easy to hold in my (small) hand? Not really sure.



mikeschr said:


> I've owned almost every Kindle since the K3, churning through them so that I usually have only a couple at once. I liked the paperwhite well enough, but in the end I couldn't get past the feeling that I wasn't looking at the words, but a screen that the words were behind. I read for a while on the iPad mini Kindle app - the best non-e-ink experience I've had, easily - but again, it had the feeling of a screen. Every time I move on to something else, I end up coming back to non-lit e-ink. I still have my Touch, and when I saw recently that the basic Kindle seems to be disappearing from stores, I decided to grab one. Just after that, the DX went to $169, and I grabbed one of those, too. Basic e-ink seems to be the only way for me to feel like I'm reading the words and not a screen, which seems essential for me to escape into the book.


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## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> A little kudos to the Paperwhite 2 software:
> 
> The Vocabulary Builder. I actually always liked the feature, it is very well made in my opinion, but had turned it off because it adds another "book" on the front page (I'd prefer it to just occupy a menu entry or leave the "book" optional) and I didn't think I'd need it.


More of a note to myself, but tip for some others who may have missed it: On the cover view page, selecting "Books" from the selector on the right side of "On Device", will hide non-book items such as the Vocabulary Builder cover shortcut and Dictionary collections, that I found completely unnecessary to see there. I like to have Vocabulary Builder enabled, because I've actually had need for it from time to time, but I don't need to see it on the front page - I'd rather just keep the books I'm currently reading there. Same with the Dictionaries, good to have for obvious reasons, but no need to see them in the cover view. I assume this would also hide the FreeTime cover shortcut, were it enabled on the device.

Anyway, just completed my third book on the PW2, reading mostly in darkness. Yes, it is screenlike, not paperlike like basic e-ink, but it also quite acceptable reading experience and the software is very nice. Still, grabbing that next piece of fiction will probably happen on the $69 Kindle...


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## Betsy the Quilter

FearIndex said:


> More of a note to myself, but tip for some others who may have missed it: On the cover view page, selecting "Books" from the selector on the right side of "On Device", will hide non-book items such as the Vocabulary Builder cover shortcut and Dictionary collections, that I found completely unnecessary to see there.


Good tip^. Just to note, if (generic) you are subscribed to any newspapers, magazines or blogs on your eInk Kindle, it will also hide those. So don't think you aren't getting the Times or Amazon Daily anymore; they're just hidden! 

Betsy


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## Toby

I got my $69 Basic Kindle for $49 from Best Buy today. That's the K5. The text is darker & the screen is whiter than the K4, Basic Kindle! I am so psyched that I decided to get it. I never thought that there was going to be that big a difference, even though it states that on the kindle page. I had thought that the text was already dark on the K4, but now the text looks gray in comparison to the K5.


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## FearIndex

Toby said:


> I got my $69 Basic Kindle for $49 from Best Buy today. That's the K5. The text is darker & the screen is whiter than the K4, Basic Kindle! I am so psyched that I decided to get it. I never thought that there was going to be that big a difference, even though it states that on the kindle page. I had thought that the text was already dark on the K4, but now the text looks gray in comparison to the K5.


This of course has been my experience as well (see my Kindle 5 review in the signature), although in the text darkness there is some variance (see $69 Kindle screen variances in my signature).

I think, text darkness and contrast-wise, $69 Kindle - some call it Kindle 4B, others Kindle 5 - is by far the best Kindle of them all. PWs can be made white with the light, but it also muddies the text easier - and the extra layers on top of the e-ink screen on PWs mean that some of that blackness and contrast is lost, even more so depending on ambient lighting conditions when those extra layers reflect some light.

I have gotten used to my PW2 by now, it has very nice software and is overall a nice product when you finally get a good unit without screen faults, but as far as text blackness and "paperlikeness" goes the $69 Kindle is currently the un-beaten Kindle champion in my experience. I have the $69 Kindle in my active reading arsenal for those late-night fiction sessions where I want the most paper-like feeling possible...


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## Toby

I have to agree with you. I love everything about the PW except for the text darkness. Maybe in the next version, the text will be darker, bolder & that we can adjust the font to the size that is right for us. I would love to be able ro pinch & zoom to adjust the font size.


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## Ann in Arlington

Toby said:


> I have to agree with you. I love everything about the PW except for the text darkness. Maybe in the next version, the text will be darker, bolder & that we can adjust the font to the size that is right for us. I would love to be able ro pinch & zoom to adjust the font size.


You can. If you pinch, the Aa sizing menu will pop up and the text will resize down one. If you opposite-of-pinch the sizing menu pops up and the text resizes up one.

I think the darkness is just fine. It's no worse than any other kindle I've had and better than most, given the ability to light it for greater contrast. That said, I've always found the best font choice is Caecilia -- the default. I like some of the others, but do find I need a larger size to read them most comfortably, just because of the weight of most of the lines, and I prefer more lines on a page. And serifs. I would not object to easily installed alternate font choices, but don't _need_ them.


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## Toby

Thanks Ann! What I mean is that the font choice is too small or too big. Being able to pinch & zoom the size like on a tablet. Not being limited in font sizes. Maybe, this is not possible with eInk. I will check your choice of font again.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Toby said:


> Thanks Ann! What I mean is that the font choice is too small or too big. Being able to pinch & zoom the size like on a tablet. Not being limited in font sizes. Maybe, this is not possible with eInk. I will check your choice of font again.


Just to note, you can't infinitely adjust the size on the font in all apps on a tablet; probably not even most. On the Fire, you can do it in things like the browser, your email and probably Office documents; I haven't tried it. You can't do it in the Kindle app on the Fire--you have 10 options move up and down by tapping on them in the Font menu. The iPad and iPhone apps work the same way--you have discrete steps to move through, though there seem to be more of them.

EDIT: I also tried Nook, iBooks, Kobo, PlayBooks, Marvin and Stanza on my iPad.  Of these, only Stanza, no longer supported, allowed pinch and zoom to change the font. iBooks did for a PDF but not for a book. The rest had the same tap up, tap down to change the font as the Kindle apps do. It seems that there are issues doing it in a reading app. 

Betsy


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## Toby

That's what I meant.   Thanks for the clarification, Betsy! I thought that I had seen this awhile ago, the pinch & zoom for any text size, in a book on an android tablet, from google play store, on TV. I don't know if this is true, because maybe it was just adjusting the size to the set sizes not shown. I don't have any android tablets other than amazon to test out.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Yes, perhaps the Google Play app, PlayBooks, is different on Android.  On my iPad, you couldn't pinch and zoom....


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare)

Ann in Arlington said:


> It actually never occurred to me that the point of the light was to be able to read in a completely dark room. I always considered it as a supplemental source that added just enough to make it comfortable when you are in an area where the lighting is not ideal. Like Leslie, I've never really found clip on book lights suitable.
> 
> As to the ads. . . .of course you see light on the person's face: the screen reflects the light. If it didn't you wouldn't see it.  I think it's still probably better than shining _directly_ into your face, which is the case with most tablet devices -- sort of like how looking at the full moon is fine but you don't want to stare into the sun.  But it's probably something that some people will be more sensitive too than others.
> 
> That said, once or twice, I have used it very successfully when I was reading in bed and The Hubs wanted to go to sleep. Usually this isn't a problem because I'm in bed long before he is and am well asleep before he even comes up. But occasionally he comes up the same time or shortly after me. Anyway, for some reason he doesn't care if the radio is playing but claims he can't sleep if there's any light.  (I totally don't get that. I can close/cover my eyes but there's no way I can put in a big enough ear plug to not hear the radio!)
> 
> So I put off the bedside lamp and put the light on the PW down low enough for me to be able to see without glare. Given that it was not pointing toward _him_ it didn't bother him. Of course, I could have just stopped reading and gone to sleep myself -- but I didn't want to.  It worked just fine and, as my eyes adjusted to the surrounding darkness, I found I could lower the light to a very very low setting and still see just fine.


Ah. Didnt realize that alot of people dont read with no other light. It's not super common for me either, altho I will (& like to) read in a room with very soft ambient light and frequently in deep shade. But I do camp or occasionally share a motel room with others and do have total dark.

I love the PW1 for that (no PW2 yet). My light setting for myPW is 13 and it works for me for ALL environmental lighting except perhaps direct sunlight which I avoid mostly anyway.

It's great on my eyes. The only thing I'll say about reading in total darkness, like camping, is it's usually not for hours....I'm usually too tired to read for more than an hr...so there may be something there that affects others.


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## FearIndex

It's now been a few months since I received the replacement Paperwhite 2, with the better screen. I must say it has become my primary Kindle and the $69 Kindle 5 is doing backup duty. I'm still not 100% convinced I'd like to read all kinds of content from the more computer-like PW2 screen, it does feel a little more clinical than basic e-ink, but so far clearly it has crossed a threshold for me and is sufficiently good for the other benefits (e.g. greater user-interface) of PW2 to push me to returning to it. 

Myself, I haven't had issues with the PW 5.4.2 Cloud Collections, because I don't really use collections. The latest .1 update also went fine, happened automatically via Wi-Fi and all is well in that regard.


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## Ann in Arlington

FearIndex said:


> It's now been a few months since I received the replacement Paperwhite 2, with the better screen. I must say it has become my primary Kindle and the $69 Kindle 5 is doing backup duty. I'm still not 100% convinced I'd like to read all kinds of content from the more computer-like PW2 screen, it does feel a little more clinical than basic e-ink, but so far clearly it has crossed a threshold for me and is sufficiently good for the other benefits (e.g. greater user-interface) of PW2 to push me to returning to it.
> 
> Myself, I haven't had issues with the PW 5.4.2 Cloud Collections, because I don't really use collections. The latest .1 update also went fine, happened automatically via Wi-Fi and all is well in that regard.


Maybe try turning the light down for most reading. I find I only need it really up much if the ambient lighting is pretty low. And even then, not much. But, for me, it's definitely much more comfortable than a backlit screen.

The other day, I was reading a magazine -- yeah, on that archaic paper stuff  -- and I found myself thinking, "why can't I see this very well?" I looked up and realized that dusk had fallen, and there just wasn't as much light. And I couldn't turn it up.  When I'm reading on my PW I don't even notice when the light is going until it's well gone. 

If you don't use collections, you won't have problems with the way they've implemented 'cloud collections'. Actually, even now, if you start setting them up you probably won't have issues. It'll be all you know and you don't have 'ghost' collections floating around. And I'd guess it's not too bad if it's your only device, really. But for those of us who've been living in the kindle ecosystem -- along with our sisters and our cousins who we reckon by the dozens -- for 5 years or more . . . . all those collections become an issue. You know, when, say 4 people share an account, and each has their own set of collections that suits their organizational mindset. Well, now, if they're all on PW'13s or HDX Fires, they all have to have the SAME collections. No choice. That's just not right.


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## FearIndex

Ann in Arlington said:


> Maybe try turning the light down for most reading. I find I only need it really up much if the ambient lighting is pretty low. And even then, not much. But, for me, it's definitely much more comfortable than a backlit screen.
> 
> The other day, I was reading a magazine -- yeah, on that archaic paper stuff  -- and I found myself thinking, "why can't I see this very well?" I looked up and realized that dusk had fallen, and there just wasn't as much light. And I couldn't turn it up.  When I'm reading on my PW I don't even notice when the light is going until it's well gone.




As you guys may recall, I read almost exclusively in the dark or nearly dark. With basic, light-covered e-ink readers I do get that "tucked in with a flashlight" feeling, which is very cozy with certain types of reading fiction. PW2 experience is different, less paperlike, more screenlike and it sets a little different mood. In my circumstances I've pretty much narrowed down the suitable light range to 6-8 on PW2, more is too much, less than that is too little to be readable - so depending on the little ambient light that is there, I usually adjust within that range.

As I've mostly read on the PW recently, certainly it seems to work well-enough for me. I like selecting the book from the visual menu, tapping words to get their definition, the pop-up footnotes (very useful in some books that rely heavily on footnotes) etc. goodies on PW2. And the touch page-change works just fine for me, something I already liked on PW1 even though I otherwise didn't like PW1 much. A little of that e-ink magic is lost, so I'll keep my $69 Kindle 5 around... I have a feeling I may still want to return to it once the PW2 novelty wears off and the book material requires it.

Anyway, PW2 seems like a much improved experience over PW1 for skeptics like me - once you get a good unit.



Ann in Arlington said:


> If you don't use collections, you won't have problems with the way they've implemented 'cloud collections'. Actually, even now, if you start setting them up you probably won't have issues. It'll be all you know and you don't have 'ghost' collections floating around. And I'd guess it's not too bad if it's your only device, really. But for those of us who've been living in the kindle ecosystem -- along with our sisters and our cousins who we reckon by the dozens -- for 5 years or more . . . . all those collections become an issue. You know, when, say 4 people share an account, and each has their own set of collections that suits their organizational mindset. Well, now, if they're all on PW'13s or HDX Fires, they all have to have the SAME collections. No choice. That's just not right.


Yep, I tested the Cloud Collections when the PW2 upgrade first came around with my PW2 vs. my other non-Cloud Collection Kindles and I do get why it is annoying. Hope they fix it soon for you guys!


----------



## mlewis78

I used my PW2 exlusively for a few months after I bought it around October 1st.  But last month I read a very long novel, The Goldfinch.  At the 60% point, my eyes were very strained after spending 2 hrs one night and 3 hours the next night reading this.  I decided to go back to my basic Kindle (2012 model) with clip-on (Xtra Flex 2) light and used it for the rest of the book.  I really want to love the PW2 and I did get a good unit, but the basic one seems to like my eyes more.  The Helvetica (sans serif) font is much thicker and bolder on the basic kindle.  The font on the PW2 is thinner.  Not really noticeable when one reads on the PW2 all hte time.  Since then I have not been reading for long spells late at night.  I've been doing more of my reading while exercising and using the PW2; also reading on the train.

I do like the convenience of not clipping on the light and I never take the light with me outside of my home.  I don't need the light when on the subway or while on break in an office.  I am dividing my reading time between the PW2 and the basic kindle.


----------



## Toby

I reading the Goldfinch now. It's really good. Did you like the book? 
I definitely like the font width & darknness, better contrast on the Basic Kindles the best, as you said. Easier to read, but I like the touch screen & light & the other things on the PW.


----------



## mlewis78

Toby said:


> I reading the Goldfinch now. It's really good. Did you like the book?
> I definitely like the font width & darknness, better contrast on the Basic Kindles the best, as you said. Easier to read, but I like the touch screen & light & the other things on the PW.


I have mixed feelings about The Goldfinch. It was just good enough to keep reading. Started out in a way that I thought it would be very good. In my opinion it is overrated by book critics. After a while I just wanted to finish it, so I had some long reading sessions and then rediscovered my basic kindle. I had not looked at my basic kindle in a while, and was surprised at the font on it being thicker, darker and more distinct than on the PW2.

I think that the front light on the PW2 is more like backlighting than using a book light. The source of light is front of my eyes. With the clip-on book light, the brighter the better, but with the front light on the PW2, overbrightness hurts my eyes. I keep it at 10 or 11, sometimes 9 and don't read on it in the dark. Sometimes I cannot see the little numbers at the bottom (percentage, number of minutes left, location, etc.) unless I turn up the light. Then I need to turn it down again when reading the book text.


----------



## Toby

I read my blogs on my Basic Kindles in a lighted room & my books on my PW2 in bed, in the dark, unless I need to use the page flip or whatever it's called, when studying a book, I will also use in a lighted room.


----------



## Atunah

I haven't read on my PW1 since I got the basic kindle 2 months ago. I was just never completely happy with my PW. The font, and mostly the way it read. I said it somewhere else before and its so hard to describe, but its like looking through a milky window for me. I think its a combination of the extra layers and the light and the font. It just never looked like nice e-ink to me. From my first kindle (k1), the letters kind of sat right on top of the surface. For lack of better explanation. That is what made it closest to print for me. I didn't get that with the PW. 

The contrast for me is so much better with the basic and I finally found a happy size to read on. It was always either too small or too large with the PW.

I haven't bothered with a lighted cover though, too expensive for what I paid for the basic. I just do what I did before getting the PW, read with a lamp, even at night. 

Readability is my #1 with the kindle and the basic has the best of such of all the kindles I own. 
I have been able to read faster and more books again too. I couldn't figure out what was going on for a year, I thought I had reading ennui or something. It was the paperwhite.


----------



## FearIndex

Atunah said:


> I haven't read on my PW1 since I got the basic kindle 2 months ago. I was just never completely happy with my PW. The font, and mostly the way it read. I said it somewhere else before and its so hard to describe, but its like looking through a milky window for me. I think its a combination of the extra layers and the light and the font. It just never looked like nice e-ink to me. From my first kindle (k1), the letters kind of sat right on top of the surface. For lack of better explanation. That is what made it closest to print for me. I didn't get that with the PW.
> 
> The contrast for me is so much better with the basic and I finally found a happy size to read on. It was always either too small or too large with the PW.
> 
> I haven't bothered with a lighted cover though, too expensive for what I paid for the basic. I just do what I did before getting the PW, read with a lamp, even at night.
> 
> Readability is my #1 with the kindle and the basic has the best of such of all the kindles I own.
> I have been able to read faster and more books again too. I couldn't figure out what was going on for a year, I thought I had reading ennui or something. It was the paperwhite.


I agree completely with Atunah's description - and it applies to (a good) PW2 as well, if a little less than to PW1. And of course if your PW1/PW2 is a "bad" unit, the problems are even worse than that.

For me, I guess, PW2 has crossed a threshold where these problems aren't stopping me from reading on it. So out of novelty and other conveniences PW2 brings, I've stuck to reading on it recently.

I'm sure a mere few minutes on the $69 Kindle "5/4B" would make me consider PW2 quite horrible again.


----------



## FearIndex

Reporting back, I have been happy with the Kindle Paperwhite 2 for the past year. While the first generation didn't do it for me, and the second generation had to go through a unit exchange to get a workable screen, the current one I have has been uniform enough screen-wise to blend into the background and pretty great otherwise. Screen uniformity has not been a problem at all with the replacement unit, in theory it is not perfect, but in practice it very works well at the low light-levels I used it (7- at night mostly. I was troubled by uniformity in first generation and the first PW2, but this one I am not bothered by. The blacks of the text are still a far cry from what my $69 Kindle 5 has, and the screen frontlight looses some of that pure e-ink magic and replaces it with some milky screenness, but the device has been very convenient and I've gotten used to a little less black text. I have read many books happily. I have also mostly read on the Paperwhite 2 exclusively due to the improved software over the $69 Kindle 5 (the latter just starts to feel pretty old, can't be helped).

Looking at the new Kindle generation, I have ordered both the Voyage and the new basic Kindle. Latter could have actually been perfect for me, were it not for two things: They decided to forgo the reading light cover and connectors and decided to make it pretty huge and not too attractive, judging by the photos. Yet, I'm still interested enough to add the new basic Kindle to my collection and see how the e-ink experience on it fares against other Kindles. Because if one looks back at some of the first posts of this thread back in 2012, a front-light-less Kindle Paperwhite is exactly what I've been clamoring for, for a while - and the new Kindle is pretty close to that. I might see if the new basic Kindle with some external light or lighted cover could be made to work...

Kindle Voyage looks a bit of a mixed blessing too, as that flush screen gives out a distinctly tabletty feel in photos. I will have to see in person whether or not that detracts from the "page of a book" feeling further. I have also liked the fact that the recessed screen offers some additional protection. Finally, the origami covers seems a bit too tablet-like for me, as I have preferred the book-like feel of past Kindles in their official covers - although covers, of course, can probably be fixed with third-party solutions, if one is willing to take the time and expense to look for a good one (I prefer covers that fit extremely snugly like the official ones, can't stand covers that have straps over the Kindle).

One thing I originally expected to not like on the Paperwhites, but have actually liked a lot, is the touch screen. Changing pages with touch is very convenient and I haven't missed the page turning keys personally, even though I used to love them on older Kindles. It is actually a strange thing, but I don't consider the new page changing solution in the Kindle Voyage as necessary as I once would have. In fact, in photos it looks a bit ugly, but I guess in practice it may be great.

In any case, I am glad Amazon continues to cater to the e-ink/serious reader demographic. I appreciate it and the fact that they didn't forget about the basic Kindle this time either. Although I have absolutely no pressing reason to upgrade, I am happy to continue with my Kindle hobby and support the new e-ink models.


----------



## CAR

FearIndex said:


> Kindle Voyage looks a bit of a mixed blessing too, as that flush screen gives out a distinctly tabletty feel in photos. I will have to see in person whether or not that detracts from the "page of a book" feeling further. I have also liked the fact that the recessed screen offers some additional protection. Finally, the origami covers seems a bit too tablet-like for me, as I have preferred the book-like feel of past Kindles in their official covers - although covers, of course, can probably be fixed with third-party solutions, if one is willing to take the time and expense to look for a good one (I prefer covers that fit extremely snugly like the official ones, can't stand covers that have straps over the Kindle).


I found this item posted on Amazon the other day: Link: http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00IU7COAE. It is a full cover screen protector for the Kindle Voyage, and looks very interesting. Also the number of covers listed for the KV has multiplied 10 fold in the last few days.


----------



## MagicalWingLT

I had the Moshi iVisor for my iPhone 4 up to this past July. It was awesome. I was looking for it for the iPhone 5S but didn't see it so I thought maybe they didn't make any or went out of business. I'm glad to see this and saved the link for later.

PS I just found this youtube video/review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-vZqmdwWSo

The screen doesn't look like that of a tablet. Looks the same as all the other kindles. My only concern is the blacks as from looking at the video they didn't look dark.


----------



## CAR

MagicalWingLT said:


> I had the Moshi iVisor for my iPhone 4 up to this past July. It was awesome. I was looking for it for the iPhone 5S but didn't see it so I thought maybe they didn't make any or went out of business. I'm glad to see this and saved the link for later.
> 
> PS I just found this youtube video/review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-vZqmdwWSo
> 
> The screen doesn't look like that of a tablet. Looks the same as all the other kindles. My only concern is the blacks as from looking at the video they didn't look dark.


It is very hard to tell how black the text on a e-reader is in a video. But I can say that if the text is not darker on the Kindle Voyage then my Paperwhite, it will get returned. So I have my fingers crossed


----------



## FearIndex

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I also noticed the screen protector by chance yesterday. I have a similar "hard" screen protector on a camera and I must say compared to some of the harder-to-apply screen protection films, this type of product is usually much easier to install, although it might also be a little more susceptible to moire effect - if a part of the hard protector gets stuck against the screen tighter than the rest in use it looks a little odd until you re-attach the protector. I have no experience with Moshi iVisor products in particular (nor with Kindle Voyage obviously), though, to know whether that would be an issue in this case.

I use screen protectors quite a bit with phones, tablets and the like (usually the glossy film type), but have never done so with Kindle since I always cover them in official cases and they have recessed screens. This will be the first flush-screen Kindle. The problem with flush screens and cases is that if sand or something gets between the closed lid of the cover and the flush screen, it is scratch time when the case presses the grit towards the screen.

Considering that the additional layers (touch and frontlight) do destroy some of that paper-like e-ink feeling on the PW1/2, I'm not yet personally too keen on the idea of adding one more layer on top of the Voyage. But I guess this is something that you'll "know" only when you have the device in hand and see what feels natural... Still, to this date, it bugs me to see a piece of dust on the PW2 screen because it makes it immediately obvious how the text is not on the top of the screen but two layers down (the frontlight only makes this realization worse) - on the $69 Kindle 5 (and any non-frontlit Kindle since, at least, Kindle 2), any dust on the screen would seem like it is immediately on the text, like on a real page of a book and a top-down light helps with that feel too.

Can't help it, PW2 is more screen-like than older Kindles, even if I do like it by now. With PW2 you are looking at a window into the book, with $69 Kindle 5, you are looking at the page of the book. I doubt Voyage can do much to alleviate the PW-like feeling. The flush screen might even make things worse, but let's hope not.

What is nice about flush screens is cleaning them is easier when stuff doesn't get stuck in the corners of the screen and, of course, they do look nicer.


----------



## Ann in Arlington

CAR said:


> I found this item posted on Amazon the other day: Link: http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00IU7COAE. It is a full cover screen protector for the Kindle Voyage, and looks very interesting. Also the number of covers listed for the KV has multiplied 10 fold in the last few days.


I'm seeing the same two pages I saw a few days ago . . . . . I go to a kindle page and click accessories and then click 'covers and cases' for the Voyage. Are you finding more some other way?


----------



## CAR

Ann in Arlington said:


> I'm seeing the same two pages I saw a few days ago . . . . . I go to a kindle page and click accessories and then click 'covers and cases' for the Voyage. Are you finding more some other way?


I typed in the Amazon search box: Kindle Voyage covers. And yes I got a much larger list with some as low as $7 - $ 8 range. Also found some sleeves too. I will check again later today.

I did check again, here is one cover for 7.99 that looks interesting http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00NSBYPNQ . I also have found covers for the KV by Poetic and Fintie. The trick is when you search on the Amazon website, select "ALL" departments in the search box then use "Kindle Voyage cover" as the search term. Also do not pick a department on the drop down menu on the right side of the page. For some odd reason if you pick Kindle as a depatment on that drop down, you get a MUCH more limited search.

Note: The power button opening on the back "may" be missing from some covers.


----------



## MagicalWingLT

This one looks cool. Not sure if it has the sleep/wake when closing the case.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Voyage-Case-Premium-E-Reader/dp/B00NTDBZEA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1412310885&sr=8-3&keywords=Kindle+Voyage+Case


----------



## Gone 9/21/18

CAR said:


> II also have found covers for the KV by Poetic and Fintie. The trick is when you search on the Amazon website, select "ALL" departments in the search box then use "Kindle Voyage cover" as the search term.


I originally purchased an Amazon cover for my PW. I loved the snug fit and quality, but it was so _heavy_. When I found myself wishing again and again for something lighter and a way to stand the PW up, I ordered a flip cover from Poetic. It doesn't begin to be the quality of the Amazon cover, but it's much lighter, it's pleasant to hold, and it makes a great easel-type stand with 2 choices of angle. It does turn the PW on when you open the case, or at least awaken it from screensaver mode.

So I ordered the equivalent Poetic cover for my new Voyage. It won't be delivered until a week after the Kindle, and on the product page the pics are of the cover for the PW. I'm taking it on faith that the new cover won't interfere with the page turn buttons, which are the main reason I'm indulging in this expensive new toy. If not, back it goes, although it won't be a terribly expensive mistake, $9.90 total.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Voyage-Case-SOPHISTICATION-Manufacturer/dp/B00NQI9R48/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1412369824&sr=8-4&keywords=poetic+kindle+voyage+case+flip


----------



## MsScarlett

I've had pretty good luck with Poetic covers.  I have one on my Fire now.  I think I'll give this one a try!


----------



## FearIndex

Personally I have had official Kindle covers (lighted variant where available) on all my Kindles, starting with the first international one: Kindle 2. I have only had one third party cover (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,130865.msg1930814.html#msg1930814), which in the end I didn't use for very long due to light quality issues. All of these covers have been the kind where the Kindle itself, its top/bezels, is not "covered" by straps or parts of the covers insides, but instead the Kindle is mated with the case through its back/sides. All of them have also been of the "book-like" format, ones that open like a book.

I have ordered the official case for the Voyage, and I expect it to be the snug fit I am used to, but since I prefer the book-like cases and it is going to be an origami stand instead this time, I am wondering if there are good recommendations on book-like cases that snugly fit the Kindle (mold around its back/sides in this case, since there are no case connectors) and do not cover its bezel area with straps or the like? Would that apply to, say, Poetic?


----------



## Ann in Arlington

Check out the accessories forum -- there's a thread discussing cases that are expected to be available.


----------



## FearIndex

Thank you.

Found the thread and agree it is a better place for discussing Kindle Voyage cases: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,195433.0.html


----------



## FearIndex

Well, well, well... The Verso Clip Light for e-readers is pretty nice with Kindle 7.  This harks back to the first post of this thread, where I pondered if a Paperwhite with its screen light turned to low as possible might work with a lighted cover/clip-on light. This setup is pretty close to that and half a book later I'm actually very pleased with it. Less than stellar practicality aside (as the light basically needs to come off when I stop reading), the setup does work very well. Time will tell if this is better for me than Paperwhite 2 or Kindle Voyage.

For details, I have posted my Verso Clip Light for e-readers review. I will also update my Kindle (7th Generation) review later with more on this.


----------



## FearIndex

Back to Kindle Voyage.

Moving discussion from the Voyage first impressions thread here, so as to not bog down the impressions with the screen quality and how to measure/photograph it discussion:



FearIndex said:


> Unfortunately scanner isn't going to be the solution either. While ingenious in its own way, and I applaud Eltain Publishing for giving it a go, it will light up the light guide from the front, so that the powerful light will reflect back from the screen. This will definitely be more powerful than any light difference the Voyage LEDs could generate while travelling over the light guide and it will even things out.
> 
> I think Amazon saying to us some gradient is normal, as someone got from CS, is probably as realistic as their eventual photographic update on Paperwhite 1 unevenness. It is also the logical conclusion - the LEDs are at the bottom only, so some fade is expected to happen over that space. It seems certain level of unevenness is normal with the technology. PW1 has the "stage lights" and splotches (which PW2 reduced), Voyage has the gradient - and both at least seem to have higher than non-lit e-ink variance in their screen quality. Now, what the real variance is between great units and bad units, that is much harder to ascertain and of course very interesting to anyone who is picky about these things and interested in knowing how long to play the replacement game.
> 
> I dedicated a long thread onto So, you didn't like Paperwhite... (see my signature) I wonder come mid-November if Voyage requires similar treatment.  I doubt it, since the near-perfect answer is already in Kindle (7th Generation). But I am interested in seeing if Voyage is good enough for me, since PW2 after one replacement is good enough, even though I know it is not really perfect - it is good enough.
> 
> I guess, for some of us, the frontlit e-reader game has become a game of good enough. I guess a little sad in its own way.





FearIndex said:


> I understand the Kindle (7th Generation) is not perfect for all. The 3G point is a great one, no argument from me there - if you need 3G, Kindle (7th Generation) will not be the solution (unless you can use tethering/mobile Wi-Fi hotspot on a mobile phone for example and live with that additional work). Also, some don't like the IR touchscreen or the size of the device, so it is not really a perfect replacement for a Kindle Voyage in that sense either. What I meant, but probably conveyed a little badly, was that I probably won't be hunting for a solution like I did around PW1 (and dedicated a long thread for) if Voyage fails me, because I already have a nice solution in the Kindle (7th Generation) that fits my particular needs. My Voyage won't ship until mid-November due to supply constraints at Amazon.
> 
> As for "good enough", I am not saying you are accepting good enough, I am saying people sensitive to such issues are generally accepting good enough - this has, in my opinion, been evident on many e-reader forums (not just related to Kindle!) since the release of the frontlit e-ink genre. The technology is imperfect and seems to create a greater than usual variance between particular units too, which is logical considering there are now LED variances and lightguide layer alignments and qualities to ponder, not just the e-ink screen there. The front light has added another variable - and thus another source of uncertainty - to the e-ink reader. Unlike the backlight, the frontlight is also quite new as a concept, so the technology is yet to evolve over decades. The majority of people probably are not sensitive to the issue, but for those that are, it has added an unfortunate twist into enjoying the high-end of e-readers since the Paperwhite 1 and its competitors launched.
> 
> I hope that makes sense as an explanation?  It is not meant to suggest people should be bothered by something they are not. Merely reflections on what it is like for those that are sensitive to it.





FearIndex said:


> People sensitive to screen variances aren't really having an issue with photographs. I think it is the people who don't care about the issue that make more hay about photos. Those sensitive to the issue just want more information so that they can decide what the best possible outcome can be, so to know how many times go for replacements. Photographs are one source of information.
> 
> In the end, what makes or breaks the experience is the unit in people's hands. But what if you get a bad one? And then another? And then another? If someone can post photographs of a unit that looks perfect even to the sensitive one, that gives hope. Keep on playing the replacement game. If all the photos show certain qualities, and do it consistently over number of angles and lighting situations and cameras and different posters, then it probably won't be worth their trouble - and also saves the dealers from having to replace unit after unit for such particular people. We crowdsource a realistic understanding of the product and the situation, which will help our online friends to make their purchase decisions better.
> 
> What I've noticed is some people take their product experience very personally, and perhaps take offence if they feel they are being questioned, while others take a more brutally objective look at products and reviewing products online. It sucks for both parties when these views clash, and I hope it is clear for example myself, no offence is meant if I ponder the wider view on the technology, over the experiences of single individuals. To me it seems like the reality is, a lot of the text commentary is very subjective. If I say my screen is perfect, and I have no history as an objective reviewer, it is very hard to know what value to place on my opinion. It is not that it would be a lie, I doubt most people lie at all about such things, it might just be my subjective experience doesn't see the issue an other person would see.
> 
> That's where photographs, imperfect as they may be, can help because they are more objective - especially when shot from many angles, under many lights, perhaps on many cameras - than just a word. If I get a perfect Voyage screen, I'll be sure to photograph the heck out of it and plaster it everywhere for scrutiny, because I know that will help a great number of uncertain people. Most of them just want a good unit, a good reader.





FearIndex said:


> What you do with your reader and your time is certainly your prerogative, it was merely a friendly suggestion. I do stand by my opinion, though, that a number of photographs shot from different angles at different lighting situations would allow valuable information to be gathered, even when a single photograph might mislead. If an issue shows in most photographs, then it probably is real, not just a camera or ambient light doing tricks. I think the notion that photographs are completely useless has reached an unrealistic level recently. They are imperfect, but gather enough of them, they are not useless.
> 
> Amazon customer service says a gradient is normal, according to reports. Common sense says a gradient is likely when the lights are only on one end of the device. The assumption that they are all affected by this to some extent is not an unreasonable one, in my opinion, especially given the wider history of e-reader frontlights suffering from unevenness. Where Voyage owners, like you or in the future myself, can make a difference is offering information on the extent of unit-to-unit differences. If you really have a non-gradient unit (or even a nearly non-gradient one), one where the light guide alignment and LED variance have hit a perfect balance, that is valuable information for someone thinking how long or much to play the replacement game! I can't stress this enough, most of us who are sensitive to these issues just want a good e-reader. When I finally got a good enough PW2, I read on it a year. Perfect it is not, for those more particular than me, but also it doesn't mean I was out to bash it. If we know there is real hope, given our particular perception, that is a great gift other owners can pay forwards.
> 
> But as it stands, it is unfortunately impossible to say whether or not you have a non-gradient Voayge or if your individual perception is just not sensitive to the gradient. A scanner will make even an unlit Kindle screen perfectly lit, so that's not the solution, unless you can scan without a light (which is basically what a camera, non-flash, does). I am not doubting your honesty, mind you, not at all. I am just saying we have no way of knowing whether or not your eyesight is representative of those who have an issue with the Voyage gradient. You might be sensitive to the PW1, which to be honest was pretty glaring in its shortcomings, but that doesn't mean you are necessarily sensitive to the Voyage issue.
> 
> Put it this way, even if I don't see anything wrong with my Voyage, doesn't mean someone else couldn't have an issue with the particular unit. Our perception varies. Posting photos in enough numbers would help people who are more sensitive to the issue than myself. That doesn't mean there is any obligation to post photos, but it also doesn't mean it would be pointless to do so.


----------



## GBear

I'm a little hesitant to add fuel to the fire, but here goes.  

Just about any cover light that I've used, and most reading lamps for that matter, result in some degree of gradient lighting on the Kindle screen (or even on a book). With the Amazon cover light on my K3, the gradient was huge, although I lived with it because I was so happy to have a convenient built-in light. I've also got lots of books - more and more as time passes - with yellowed and tattered pages. So what is our "gold standard" that we are holding these new Kindles up to when complaining about gradients, uneven lighting, and color variance from white?

If it's the even lighting of the backlit screen that many of us stare at all day, I can understand why seeing an uneven frontlit screen can be distracting. However, e-ink is designed to specifically avoid being backlit and, for many, harder on the eyes. In the world of frontlit screens, with either internal or external lighting, I find my PW2 to be about as good as it gets from a lighting perspective.

I haven't read on a basic Kindle as my last unlit Kindle was the K3, so I'll acknowledge that other devices may have better contrast. To me, the built-in, automatic light feature is so valuable that I can look past this. My only real desire is for a few more font sizes so I can make finer adjustments when needed.

Would some of the people who are bothered by the PW2 and Voyage screens be happier with a tablet (weight and battery life aside)?


----------



## FearIndex

GBear:

I don't see why anyone would need to add fuel or there be a fire, but discussion like your post is great!  I'm not blind, of course, I can see that this topic causes irritation in some people, but personally I don't think it should. An analytical approach doesn't have to be controversial. The screens are what they are, the analysis is to find out what exactly. It definitely isn't anything personal for anyone, I hope.

As for reading lights causing gradients, hotspotting etc., that is obviously true. Here is a picture I took for unit-to-unit variance comparisons of $69 Kindle 5 lighted leather covers here on KBoards - we can see both a gradient and a hotspot (as well as unit-to-unit variance on these cover lights):










Similar effect, although with less hotspotting and from a different angle, exists of course with the Kindle 3 lighted cover as well.

Back when Paperwhite 1 came, I made the argument that an unevenly lit screen (be it front or backlit) is more bothersome to some people than a lamp that casts an uneven light. The reason is that the latter does so very naturally, and smoothly, whereas Paperwhite 1 suffered from multiple uneven areas of lighting - at the very least the stage-lighting, but also in many cases (if not all) of colorful splotching. (Of course, another group of people hate integrated or clip-on lights and prefer frontlights.)

A lamp also casts its light not only on the e-ink screen, but over surrounding surfaces as well. So certainly there is a difference between how some people perceive a lit screen, compared to how they perceive light falling down on surfaces. The contrast of the lit screen compared to its surroundings is higher and also the light being inherent to it, any defects are more glaring - and also beyond adjustability by the user.

Now, if the only thing Kindle Voyage has, is a smooth vertical gradient, that is certainly an improvement over the unevenness of the Paperwhite. Even my second Paperwhite 2, which is perfectly usable for me, is not completely even - there are areas of the screen that are a bit darker than others and there is no "natural" logic to it, unlike there would be on how a lamp's light falls on a surface. Even my good PW2 is a little splotchy and my PW1 is a lot splotchy, although not as bad as some samples online have been known to be.

I haven't paid enough attention, and haven't seen a Voyage in person yet, to know whether or not there is more to it than just a lightess/color temperature gradient, but if it is just a gradient issue, then certainly that should be okay for some more people. Gradient is probably better than splotchiness, right? It still doesn't solve the contrast to the surroundings in a dark setting (a reading lamp is more forgiving by nature), but certainly it can be an improvement over the Paperwhites.

The point of the frontlight discussion, analysis and photographs isn't - for me anyway - to say what should bother who (we are all individuals there, some people like frontlights and can't stand lighted covers for example and that's perfectly okay of course) or even find out who is bothered by what, but to find out what the unit-to-unit variance is, what the products are like, what is reasonable to expect when buying the product etc.

I agree perfectly with Ann and Betsy, for example, on the fact that what matters is which e-reader fits your use and preferences. That's the individual bottom line, what will I like to read on. That's the gold standard. But to get there, people need information and when a product type has certain characteristics some find problematic, it helps to hash out those characteristics to help find out what is the right product for a particular user.

Understanding what the Voyage screen is like, what the variance is between units, that seems like a useful discussion for those looking for replacements.

p.s. Tablet certainly might be helpful to some. Though not even all LCD backlights are even. There have been cases of at least monitors and all-in-one computers having issues amongst very particular users when there has been color temperature or brightness variation over the screen. It is useful to know this, so that those who are bothered by such things can avoid such products or wait out until the issue is fixed etc.


----------



## Toby

Today, I went to the Eye Doctors. I mentioned about my contrast issues reading with the PW's in the dark. He told me that there was a study that said that some people have contrast sensitivity. So that's why some of us have trouble reading on the PW & others don't. I am so excited to finally get a concrete answer.


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## mlewis78

After I had an eye exam in late June and got new lenses in July, I liked my PW2 much, much better.  Haven't been reading a lot outside of during my ride home on the subway, but before I got the new lenses, my eyes hurt a lot the morning after I'd read on my paperwhite for an hour or so just before going to sleep.


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## FearIndex

Good points, Toby and mlewis78.

Contrast sensitivity is an actual concern amongst e.g. diabetics, but of course can affect to various degrees us non-diabetics as well. Our eyesight certainly can be very different. As can our reading circumstances of course - for example, someone mostly reading in some sun or ambient light, will probably have a different experience than someone who reads mostly in complete darkness. So when these things are compounded in online discussions, no wonder it is hard to judge how applicable the experience of others is to your own.

Pics can help!


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## northofdivision

For those with android devices, the app Moonreader has some ridiculous and amazing features. I prefer e-ink but if i'm reading on a tablet, Moonreader get my applauds. 2 page view and animated page turns and the killer feature of the app, autoscrolling (where you just press it and the screen scrolls. For the laziest of people out there while laying in bed, all you do is prop it up on a pillow or stand and you can set the speed in which is scrolls. There's something really soothing about falling asleep to a scrolling screen of the words of your novel.



JamescCamp said:


> This may be blasphemy on this forum, but ...
> 
> I like having a full tablet. That way I can use the Kindle app, but also other e-book apps to get a different selection of books, and I can read comics and magazines on it.
> 
> I was hoping Kindle was going to release a colour e-ink device this fall, but for some reason they still think the market 'isn't ready for it', and so I bought a Nexus 7 instead. I love it.


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## Ann in Arlington

northofdivision said:


> For those with android devices, the app Moonreader has some ridiculous and amazing features. I prefer e-ink but if i'm reading on a tablet, Moonreader get my applauds. 2 page view and animated page turns and the killer feature of the app, autoscrolling (where you just press it and the screen scrolls. For the laziest of people out there while laying in bed, all you do is prop it up on a pillow or stand and you can set the speed in which is scrolls. There's something really soothing about falling asleep to a scrolling screen of the words of your novel.


See: that would drive me nuts!  Plus, I don't want to fall asleep while I'm reading and have the book go on. How will I know where I left off!? 

I also don't see any need for a two page spread on a tablet or animated page turns. But that's just me, of course.


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## northofdivision

Ann in Arlington said:


> See: that would drive me nuts!  Plus, I don't want to fall asleep while I'm reading and have the book go on. How will I know where I left off!?
> 
> I also don't see any need for a two page spread on a tablet or animated page turns. But that's just me, of course.


Haha. Definitely not for everyone, Ann.  On big tablets, the 2 page spread is kind of a neat feature.


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## FearIndex

My Kindle Voyage was just delivered. Won't have time to get to it and to play with it until later today, though. I look forward to putting it through its paces this weekend and report back.


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## FearIndex

Got the Kindle Voyage and will have to read it some to form opinions. Screen: The gradient is there, top part is clearly less bright than bottom and more yellow. This is unlike PW2 which may be more splotchy but PW2 is also brighter at top. The lightguide is also pretty "noisy" when displaying uniform blacks on major light levels, including a few brighter specks - maybe more so than the PWs - these issues don't show when reading text or using lower light levels though. On the upside contrast and text blackness do seem up.

Pressure page buttons feel controversial. Not sure I would use them, but time will tell. Regular physical buttons would seem better and touchscreen may be better than this. How the origami cover attaches is interesting though.


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## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> Got the Kindle Voyage and will have to read it some to form opinions. Screen: The gradient is there, top part is clearly less bright than bottom and more yellow. This is unlike PW2 which may be more splotchy but PW2 is also brighter at top. The lightguide is also pretty "noisy" when displaying uniform blacks on major light levels, including a few brighter specks - maybe more so than the PWs - these issues don't show when reading text or using lower light levels though. On the upside contrast and text blackness do seem up.
> 
> Pressure page buttons feel controversial. Not sure I would use them, but time will tell. Regular physical buttons would seem better and touchscreen may be better than this. How the origami cover attaches is interesting though.


Just posted my early review, considering a replacement due to uneven screen light - it is hard to find a good balance where the top would be lit well enough while the bottom wouldn't be lit too much, when reading in dark.


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## FearIndex

As I mentioned in the other thread, my search for the perfect e-ink reading experience seems to continue - or stay put, if you want to look at it this way. The Kindle Voyage I have is not working out due to too dim top part of the screen, making the rest of the ponderings quite academic. No point in looking at things like cases and PagePress usability, when the screen is just not performing in my use scenario. It isn't even the pin-hole or two, which are very minor and don't show when reading, or the uneven color of the screen when lit, it is just the fact that the top is too dim to read at the light level I want.

Here's what I've decided to do:

- Kindle Voyage is going back as a return

I just put in orders for two things:

- Kindle Voyage 3G (I'll re-use the origami cover for this)
- Kobo Aura H20 with sleep cover

The former is another shot at the Voyage, hopefully a better unit with the 3G batch. I've had the sporadic 3G version of Kindle, if I'm waiting for another (with international shipping exchanges are always slow anyway), might as well see the 3G version through. I know the shortish wait to the 3G version won't allow for any significant changes to the manufacturing process, but perhaps some early kinks get figured out - or I just get lucky with a second unit (or not).

The latter is my first non-Kindle e-ink reader. Having been an avid Kindle reader since 2009, my only experience of other readers come from shop demos. But I hear lots of good about the screen and the evenness of the frontlight on Kobo Aura H20, several people who have been disappointed by Paperwhites and Voyage have sworn H20 is significantly better. I will have to check it out, even though I'm doubtful and I'm not looking forward to leaving the smooth Amazon purchase experience and find it unlikely I would change my daily driver platform.

In the end, my Kindle (7th Generation) with the Verso clip-on works pretty great for me as is (only unoptimal part is the non-chargeable and a little impractical clip-on), so I don't really have to do any of this, but Voyage has enough good to give it another go (the new contrasty, sharpy e-ink screen itself really is nice, too bad the lighting lets it down) and the competition is something my level of enthusiasts really owe to themselves to check out at this point, I think... 

All in all, I'm not feeling too bad about this, and it certainly isn't unexpected. It is the frontlit e-reader experience these days, it is what it is. Moving on to solve it.


----------



## Toby

Sorry, FearIndex. I hope the next Voyage you get is great. Let us know how you like the Kobo Aura H20.


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## FearIndex

Thanks, Toby. It is a struggle to buy Kindles these days.  I posted some more experiences from last night into the review.

I will surely let everyone know how it plays out...


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## PixelKnight

I think you're going to enjoy the Kobo Aura H20! Take a bubble bath with it


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## FearIndex

PixelKnight said:


> I think you're going to enjoy the Kobo Aura H20! Take a bubble bath with it


That certainly puts a new spin on reading on it naked...


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## kc8172

Hello just to add I do not the Voyage but I had a Kobo Glo that was far superior to the Paperwhite 2 as far as even lighting. I left it on the the airplane and I never got it back. Enjoy your Aura H20, I am jealous, I look forward to your review.


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## sseverus

FearIndex said:


> The latter is my first non-Kindle e-ink reader. Having been an avid Kindle reader since 2009, my only experience of other readers come from shop demos. But I hear lots of good about the screen and the evenness of the frontlight on Kobo Aura H20, several people who have been disappointed by Paperwhites and Voyage have sworn H20 is significantly better. I will have to check it out, even though I'm doubtful and I'm not looking forward to leaving the smooth Amazon purchase experience and find it unlikely I would change my daily driver platform.


I too was disappointed with the Kindle Voyage and purchased a Kobo H20. I like it very much and found the screen much more uniform than the Voyage I received although it is somewhat less responsive. What makes the Kobo special in my view is the ability to side-load fonts (I use Charis SIL Modified) and the available patches that allow you to modify most side-loaded fonts (margins, size & weight) to your satisfaction. I use Calibre to handle my Amazon e-books and usually convert them to epub using Calibre formatting options (header & footer adjustments) that I like. I then convert the epub to kepub format using an available plugin although this step is not necessary as the H20 handles epubs just fine. Certainly this doesn't qualify as a "smooth" experience but Calibre makes it pretty easy. In short, the H20's larger screen, fewer page turns and font customization makes it all worth it IMO.


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## northofdivision

sseverus said:


> What makes the Kobo special in my view is the ability to side-load fonts (I use Charis SIL Modified) and the available patches that allow you to modify most side-loaded fonts (margins, size & weight) to your satisfaction. I use Calibre to handle my Amazon e-books and usually convert them to epub using Calibre formatting options (header & footer adjustments) that I like. I then convert the epub to kepub format using an available plugin although this step is not necessary as the H20 handles epubs just fine.


Fonts through sideloading via Calibre. That sounds awesome. That extra inch sounds nice but i really am a fan of 6" and below with one hand. 233grams is pretty impressive for a 6.8inch though. Voyage's 181 grams though. Glad there are some great options out there for ereaders.


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## sseverus

northofdivision said:


> Fonts through sideloading via Calibre. That sounds awesome. That extra inch sounds nice but i really am a fan of 6" and below with one hand. 233grams is pretty impressive for a 6.8inch though. Voyage's 181 grams though. Glad there are some great options out there for ereaders.


No, you sideload fonts by loading them directly to a fonts directory on the H20 not through Calibre. I use Calibre to manipulate ebook settings. After applying certain patches to the H20 available on Mobilereads you can select and adjust the fonts you have sideloaded just like the built-in fonts. I understand not all sideloaded fonts work as they should but the two I have tried so far work great. Enjoy your Kindle.


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## northofdivision

sseverus said:


> No, you sideload fonts by loading them directly to a fonts directory on the H20 not through Calibre.


thanks for clarifying. may have to pick one of those up...on that note, for those of you that don't need front lit lighting, the now old sony prs350 and sony prs650 (the 5" and 6" touch models with fwd/back buttons) readers are dirt cheap new/used and you can upgrade to prs+ free firmware for a good dozen of fonts which are all pretty incredible with all kinds of text weight and line spacing and other customization. Calibre accommodates both readers so your collection just gets ported. keep the 6" in my car and the 5" in my peacoat.


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## FearIndex

Thanks for the discussion, guys. My Kobo Aura H20 with the cover should be here mid-week. Kindle Voyage 3G gives a mid-December shipping date. I'm actually looking forward to checking out the competition, because it has been a while since I've toyed with shop demos of such.

In the meanwhile, I've still been reading on the Kindle Voyage and the uneven lighting is still bad - it just is so bright down and so bleak up. Not unusable, but worth replacing. The pinholes, luckily, have not bothered in reading at all, as they have been very minor - but the unevenness of the lighting (the gradient or half/half situation) is bothersome.

Kobo has been receiving great praise for two generations now on screen light evenness, compared to the Kindle. They must be doing something right.


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## FearIndex

OK, just got the Kobo Aura H20 with its official sleep cover.

The screen actually looks pretty awesome. The frontlight is very even, the screen is very sharp, the blacks are very good, and the a-little-bigger-than Kindle inch size is actually very impressive too. It isn't huge like DX, but it makes the average Kindle look like a paperback to Kobo's hardback. Had the Paperwhites or the Voyage looked like this from the box, I doubt I'd ever had to gone through as much pain as I have trying to get to grips with it.

Kobo definitely has the edge on frontlight evenness by a large margin, their warmer light is also more pleasant and contrast is better - it is basically just easier to find a low light setting to read on. I have to put the Kindle Voyage for example on a much higher light level to be able to read, whereas the text still pops out even when Kobo clearly has less frontlight going on, it must have something to do with how the frontlight is made...

I will have to play some more with it to form deeper impressions, but clearly all the hooplah about Kobo's better frontlight evenness wasn't hot air... Now, time will tell about the rest of the features, but so far so good. The amount of configurability is pretty impressive on the Kobo, after coming from the austere Kindle.


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## Toby

Sounds good so far. Is the screen as light as Basic 7th G? Looking forward to more reviews. Thanks for posting.


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## FearIndex

Toby said:


> Sounds good so far. Is the screen as light as Basic 7th G? Looking forward to more reviews. Thanks for posting.


While we must assume some e-ink-to-e-ink variance between Kobo Aura H20 units as well, like with any e-ink screened device, I must say now that you ask - the Kobo Aura H20 is significantly lighter backgrounded than either my Kindle Voyage or Kindle (7th Generation). This is with the light turned all the way off - on the Kobo you can actually turn the light completely off, unlike on Kindle Paperwhites and Voyage. Text blackness, too, is one of the best I've seen.

The screen, actually, is a little puzzling because it is so much better than anything I've seen on any Kindle, ever. It is very sharp and the frontlight very even - not perfectly even probably, but a significant improvement over my replacement Paperwhite 2 which so far has been my most even frontlit e-reader - and without the blur/milkyness introduced by the Paperwhite frontlight.

Outwardly the Kobo Aura H20 actually looks quite a bit like the Kindle (7th Generation), although a little better proportioned on the bottom and a little larger due to the larger screen. The material quality may be a tad bit under the Kindle, but not by any significant margin. Sleep cover is similar to auto on/off Kindle (7th Generation) official book-like cover. The touch is IR like on the Kindle (7th Generation) and Kindle Touch, which I personally consider a bonus, because there is one layer less between myself and the e-ink goodness.

I read some on the Kobo last night in complete darkness and really enjoyed the frontlight in my difficult reading scenario. There was none of that "I need to get used to this" feeling, it just clicked instantly, the screen.


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## alicepattinson

Thanks for this


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## simonz

Thank you FearIndex for your detailed reviews of the PW2, Voyage, and now the Kobo Aura H2O. After reading about issues with the Kindle Voyage, which I had high hopes for, I went to the "darkside" and ordered the Kobo Aura H2O with the matching case. I'm looking forward to a larger screen, even lighting, better contrast, improved readability in poor lighting, choice of many fonts, and more configuration options. Now for the 7-10 day wait.


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## northofdivision

FearIndex said:


> As I mentioned in the other thread, my search for the perfect e-ink reading experience seems to continue - or stay put, if you want to look at it this way. The Kindle Voyage I have is not working out due to too dim top part of the screen, making the rest of the ponderings quite academic.


Just posted my review of my first impression and it looks like our eyes are seeing he exact same thing on the Kindle Voyage. Feel your pain. Have you tried the Aura 6" with the lighting? (not the newest waterproof one) curious if that's a good one lightwise.


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## Toby

Thanks again for the review. Sounds great. I like the Voyage, except the fact that now the newest update is now causing problems with me putting books into my collections. It's not responding right. I'm going to have to restore both my PW2 & Voyage.


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## FearIndex

Thanks, guys. 



northofdivision said:


> Just posted my review of my first impression and it looks like our eyes are seeing he exact same thing on the Kindle Voyage. Feel your pain. Have you tried the Aura 6" with the lighting? (not the newest waterproof one) curious if that's a good one lightwise.


I have heard many times that Kobo's latest two generations (Kobo Aura H20, the waterproof one, included in that) have been good light evenness-wise, but I have no personal experience of the predecessor. I will be posting more experiences on the Kobo Aura H20, though, as I get them.

Kindle does of course have a superior bookstore experience, and in some ways superior software, but when just in a book reading it, Kobo does have better configurability for various things like fonts, controls, status indicators, screen refresh frequency and the like. Kobo isn't quite as smooth as Kindle software-wise, but then when in a book, that doesn't really matter much.



simonz said:


> Thank you FearIndex for your detailed reviews of the PW2, Voyage, and now the Kobo Aura H2O. After reading about issues with the Kindle Voyage, which I had high hopes for, I went to the "darkside" and ordered the Kobo Aura H2O with the matching case. I'm looking forward to a larger screen, even lighting, better contrast, improved readability in poor lighting, choice of many fonts, and more configuration options. Now for the 7-10 day wait.


Thank you and good luck!

I look forward to hearing your experiences with the Kobo Aura H20. When I have time and more experience under my belt, I will jot down something more coherent about the Kobo here too.

By the way, lest it sound that way to anyone, it is not my intention to hype up the Kobo at the cost of Kindle either. Kindle does have many strongsuits and I appreciate what Amazon is doing. My Kindle Voyage 3G remains on order. But it has to be said again, the Kobo Aura H20 screen really is a lot better than any Kindle I've seen, so in that department Kobo is better and since that is the entire reason for being for this thread, I have focused on that in my initial impressions. Kindle may be better in other areas and I hope to explore and talk about that later on.


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## dowisetrepla

The only issue with Kobo is that their customer service is terrible. I actually switched from Kobo to Kindle because of this. I had the Kobo Glo and after 3 months it stopped working. I called customer service and they claimed that since I "couldn't prove" that I didn't break it myself (I didn't, I just went to use it one day & the screen was frozen. I tried everything. It's been over a year and it's still frozen sitting in the box) that they wouldn't do anything. They suggested that I buy another one. They were very rude, so I switched to Kindle.


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## simonz

My Kobo Aura H2O arrived a few days ago and I've had a chance to use it. Here are my first impressions of the Kobo vs the PW2.

The Kobo screen is beautiful, large, clear, with even lighting, and great contrast. The text is crisp and doesn't have a slightly smudgy look that my PW2 has. Because of its slightly large size, reading with the Kobo feels like a hardcover book vs. the PW2 like a paperback. There are several fonts faces and options to choose from. My favorite font option is the setting for "Font Weight" (boldness). Also, the line spacing on the Kobo has several settings vs 3 on the PW2. I have always been frustrated with the Kindle fonts as they always seemed to thin to me and have now way to make them bolder.

The Kobo UI is not as responsive and intuitive as the Kindle. This is where the PW2 shines. On the Kobo there are times when it takes a couple of touches before it recognized, this is especially true when setting check boxes in the Settings interface. The PW2 has a nice and snappy virtual keyboard; on the Kobo I often pressed the wrong keys and sometimes I had to press twice to get it to respond.  The page turns on the Kobo are slower than on the PW2. Page turns on both devices work on every press. The Kobo has an adjustable page refresh rate from 1-6 page turns vs the PW2 has on/off setting. One nice built in touch setting on the Kobo is that a vertical swiping left side of screen adjusts screen brightness without going to a menu.

The Amazon ecosystem is really nice so that readings can be synced across several devices and with books not purchased on Amazon. With the Kobo system, this is possible for books purchased from Kobo only. I'll continue to purchase my books on Amazon and use Kobo for side loaded books.

I'll will use both the Kobo and PW2. For home use and extended reading sessions the Kobo. For when I'm out and about, the PW2.


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## Toby

Thanks for the reviews/experience with Kobo & their CS.


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## FearIndex

Thank you for the very thorough first impressions post, simonz, your experiences are very much in line with mine - Kobo Aura H20 has superior screen, superior frontlight and configurability and on the flipside Kindle gets some wins on ecosystem and software usability/speed. Anyway, Kobo Aura H20 continues to impress overall and I'll try to find time to really review it later on. In any case, the Kobo screen REALLY is that good, I have no bad words about the screen or its frontlight and that's saying a lot, coming from someone who loves e-ink but has had issues with all the past frontlit Kindles to some extent...

In the meanwhile, my Kindle Voyage 3G got bumped up to December 1st from around the 18th, so perhaps I get to compare it with the Kobo Aura H20 already next week. Not that I'm really expecting the Voayge to be much better than my first (it can be worse), but I will try this one replacement. Game of luck, unless they made manufacturing improvements for the 3G run, which seems unlikely given the schedule.

Last night I read on my Kindle (7th Generation) and the Verso clip-on light, because it was nearby and I enjoyed that. Kobo Aura H20 and Kindle (7th Generation) are probably my favorites at the moment... Kobo has the best screen and frontlight, but for a non-lit e-reader Kindle (7th Generation) is a very balanced product. Both are very similar when held in hand, being IR touch e-ink readers both with similar shapes, although Kobo is of course a little larger due to larger screen.


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## Toby

FearIndex how do you know the K7 is IR Touch? I just looked at Amazon & didn't see that listed. Just curious.


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## GhiiZhar

I received my Voyage last Saturday, and returned it a few days later due to the uneven brightness/yellow tint problem reported here and elsewhere.

I used the refund to buy a Galaxy Tab S, not as a replacement, but because I have been wanting one for a while, and Samsung dropped the price $100 for the holidays. I did think I would try using it for reading ebooks until the Voyage screen problem is completely resolved, and I would buy another.

However, backlit LCDs are not comparable to e-ink when it comes to reading books.

So I just ordered a 2014 PW (now $99) to replace the Voyage that I bought to replace my PW2 which I sold to buy the Voyage


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## FearIndex

GhiiZhar: Thanks for the comment and good luck with your latest order!  Anecdotal as it may be, I have heard good things about the 2014 Paperwhite. I think just like with PW2, Amazon has been making gradual improvements to the frontlight and the Paperwhite by now is a pretty mature product. I think the Voyage will probably take a year to see significant improvement in frontlight evenness, and two years down the road be a lot less a game of luck, if the Paperwhite example is anything to go by.

Toby: I think the IRness of the basic Kindle (7th Generation) was widely reported on launch, but I'm not sure if Amazon has put it onto their website(s) per se. In any case, the IR bands are clearly visible and one of the dismantling sites also did the Kindle (7th Generation) and found the IR system inside, they posted the name of the company making it too. This photo of mine showing my first faulty Kindle (with the glue sticking out) also shows the IR band circling the screen, although poorly due to lighting...










Owning a lot of Kindles and one Kobo, it is easy to tell apart the Kindle (7th Generation) and Kobo Aura H20 due to the fact that their screens are clearly more recessed than the screens of other readers, due to that IR touch band around the screen. I don't have a Kindle Touch, but if I did I'm sure it would similarly stick out. Capacitive touch on the Paperwhites and Voyage is more even and thus hidden, although may add a bit more to the layering on top of the e-ink screen.

_Edited to shrink image slightly to accommodate those using mobile devices or older monitors. Thanks for understanding. --Betsy_


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## Toby

Thanks FearIndex for letting me know. Amazon did not mention it on their page & I was wondering about it. I still have my Touch. Yes, there are no layers, because there was no lighted screen. The text is darker, but because the screen is so dark, I always have to have the Amazon Cover's light on to see the words. Not my favorite Kindle. Liked the touch aspect, not the dark screen. My Baby K5 has a much lighter screen. As you have said, screens may vary. I can't wait to see your comparison of the Kobo to the Voyage. Today, during  the day, I had the Baby K5, the PW2, & my Voyage sice by side. My Voyage has a warm yellow light that is even, but the text is darker on the V. than the PW2, which has a whiter light. If I turn the light all the way down on the PW2, the text looks as dark as the Baby. However, the fonts on the V. & the PW2 are different than the Baby. What I don't understand is why Amazon will not concentrate on the features that you mentioned that you liked on that Kobo has on it's reader. I want to adjust the size of the text & the boldness. It's either the text is too small or too large or the letters are not being bold enough. On the Baby, the letters are bolder. Why would Amazon thin the letters down! Uggg!


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## northofdivision

Anyone have comparisons on the baby Kindle vs the current 79$ dollar Kindle? I went to get my hands on the latter at Best Buy and it's very clunky and chunky to me compared to the baby Kindle (The screen looked quite nice). Anyone real happy with the latter who has had the former?


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## FearIndex

northofdivision said:


> Anyone have comparisons on the baby Kindle vs the current 79$ dollar Kindle? I went to get my hands on the latter at Best Buy and it's very clunky and chunky to me compared to the baby Kindle (The screen looked quite nice). Anyone real happy with the latter who has had the former?


I'm sure you've read it, so hopefully others can help you out with opinions, but for others I will mention I broach the topic in my "$79" Kindle review - and I have both the baby Kindle and that new basic Kindle. But then I've always used them with covers, so a covered Kindle (7th Generation) feels about the same as a covered $69 Kindle 5, comparing with the official covers, since the new cover is a bit lighter built than the old one. Of course the new Kindle is larger when used without cover, though, it is built like the Kindle Touch for obvious reasons (IR touch).

Personally I have no qualms about the size or the weight of the new basic Kindle, but it is somewhat larger than the previous baby Kindle.


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## FearIndex

Toby said:


> Thanks FearIndex for letting me know. Amazon did not mention it on their page & I was wondering about it. I still have my Touch. Yes, there are no layers, because there was no lighted screen. The text is darker, but because the screen is so dark, I always have to have the Amazon Cover's light on to see the words. Not my favorite Kindle. Liked the touch aspect, not the dark screen. My Baby K5 has a much lighter screen. As you have said, screens may vary. I can't wait to see your comparison of the Kobo to the Voyage.


Thank you, Toby.  Yes, e-ink screens definitely vary in text and background darkness even between a single generation (I have some $69 Kindle 5 comparisons in my signature). It is possible you would have been able to get a lighter screened Kindle Touch simply by exchanging it at the time even.

I will hopefully get my Voyage 3G later this week, and owing to Amazon's generous holiday season returns period I still have the current Voyage, so I will be able to compare those two units to the Kobo Aura H20 and the Kindle (7th Generation) for some further views on the matter. I'm still going to share some more experiences with the Kobo Aura H20 too, but haven't had the time yet.


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## Toby

I hope your next Voyage is better. I can't wait until you get it to hear from you. It could be that the yellow glow will bother you, so if the color is even on the screen, go to a book & read for awhile, which I'm sure you will do anyway, then see what you think. In other words, if the screen color is even for you, don't concentrate on the color, but concentrate on the words. 
    My Voyage is still buggy when putting books in the collection, but I haven't done anything about it yet. Reading on it has been great.


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## FearIndex

Toby said:


> I hope your next Voyage is better. I can't wait until you get it to hear from you. It could be that the yellow glow will bother you, so if the color is even on the screen, go to a book & read for awhile, which I'm sure you will do anyway, then see what you think. In other words, if the screen color is even for you, don't concentrate on the color, but concentrate on the words.
> My Voyage is still buggy when putting books in the collection, but I haven't done anything about it yet. Reading on it has been great.


Interestingly, it wasn't the screen color shift that bothered me on my first Voyage (although it, of course, is there), it was the diminishing light on the top part of the screen. I have read one full book on that Voyage, so it isn't impossible certainly to use it, but it never was as pleasant as I would have liked. My eyes get a bit weary at trying to make out the text at the top, while being bombarded with too much light at the bottom. When my reading scenario is a dark room with frontlight as low as possible, because I don't want to feel like looking at a screen, it definitely brings out any weaknesses in the screen much more easily than with people who may have other lighting available (daylight, bedside lamp etc.) or who prefer a high light setting on the device anyway (it is my experience high light settings help alleviate most frontlight issues).

I'm not seeking perfection on the screen by no means, I know that even LCDs and LED screens have imperfections that are inherent to those technologies (light bleed, dead pixels, some even have had color tints/fades etc.), just a balance where I can fade such things out of my mind. My first two PWs (PW1 and first PW2) were not enough, but my second PW2, while definitely not perfectly even (there are darker areas in the middle), was perfectly serviceable so that I could fade that out and go on enjoying the reading again and - indeed - enjoy the device as well.

Let's see what the Voayge number 2 brings.


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## Toby

I'm crossing my fingers for you.


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## FearIndex

Got the new Kindle Voyage 3G a couple of nights ago.

I can't say it is a major improvement over the previous one, though it may be a small, if somewhat controversial improvement: It doesn't have the annoying bright pinhole glaring on the hillside every time the Kindle boots, which is good (even though it didn't bother actual reading), and it also has a slightly brighter light, which is good, and overall the light is more even, but also with a bit more pronounced color gradient than the previous one - perhaps due to the more powerful light making the bottom whiter while leaving the top yellower.

Clearly Amazon has got their work cut out for them to calibrate the light guide process so that the light is directed all the way up to the top of the screen, now it seems somewhere around the middle the frontlight starts "loosing light" even if the bottom LEDs in themselves would be powerful enough, so the top remains a little darker and yellower. Considering Kobo Aura H20 is very even, with the same setup of lights only at the bottom, and even Paperwhite 2 managing a bright top, it shouldn't be impossible. It just seems as it stands, if these examples are anything to go by, Kindle Voyage isn't quite there yet.

I have to update the review soon (and add my Kobo Aura H20 musings), but after a couple of nights the new unit seems it like a slight improvement for my reading scenario - very low frontlight levels and reading in the dark. The new unit lights up the top a little better, making a difference. On the other hand, the color gradient is visible when reading on higher light levels (on lower levels it becomes more of a brightness gradient). In any case, it does strike me how cold the Kindle Voyage (both units) frontlight is when reading on those low light levels, it makes the page seem almost blue.

I'll add one positive thing, though, now that I have the origami cover, I've actually used it at times to stand up the Kindle. Maybe I'm in the middle of some serious reading and need a snack, well, prop-up the Kindle in the kitchen and the reading doesn't have to stop.  Still, overall I would prefer a book-like cover (and know many third party options exist) and I absolutely hate the origami cover and the rear power button getting in each others way when the Kindle has turned off while cover is still open... Rear power button, seriously Amazon? And a magnetic cover that covers that rear power button when opened? Sheesh...

Anyway, barring some unexpected product breakdown, I'm keeping the new Kindle Voyage 3G and returning the old one. I think this is what the product is like I'll not bother myself with it more, the new one corrects the pinhole and adds the 3G option, so that's nice. Next round, next year, maybe. If history is anything to go by that's how long it takes to see real improvement in the manufacturing process. Now I just have to decide in which order I expect to use the current set: Kindle (7th Generation), Kindle Voyage 3G, Kobo Aura H20 and get on with the reading. But I guess I'll have to leave something for the updated review...


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## Broadus

As always, good review, FearIndex. Thanks for sharing. I suspect you are right about the next Voyage being markedly improved.

That is certainly my experience with the Paperwhite. I returned my PW1 because of the "smudges" and pink/green (or was it blue--can't remember) issues. It took me till this past Black Friday sale to give the Paperwhite another go, and the latest version is a great improvement. It is definitely a keeper, and $99 made it a good deal.


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## FearIndex

Thank you.

I have now posted my Kobo Aura H2O review and the 3G/replacement addendum to my Kindle Voyage review.

There are also some frontlight comparison photos behind those links.

Next: A good book.


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## Toby

Another good review.


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## northofdivision

FearIndex said:


> Got the new Kindle Voyage 3G a couple of nights ago.
> 
> I can't say it is a major improvement over the previous one, though it may be a small, if somewhat controversial improvement: It doesn't have the annoying bright pinhole glaring on the hillside every time the Kindle boots, which is good (even though it didn't bother actual reading), and it also has a slightly brighter light, which is good, and overall the light is more even, but also with a bit more pronounced color gradient than the previous one - perhaps due to the more powerful light making the bottom whiter while leaving the top yellower.


Interesting, Fearindex. Thanks for the review. So you're saying that the Voyage 3g has more of a lighter bottom but a yellower top screen in regard to the light grid than what you saw on the Voyage wifi? Does this bother you less because you see less of it on lower light settings. We seem to have the same usage (reading in the low lighting or the dark and not needing the light in the day). At the lower settings (Let's say 9 and below), you can read well with the 3g without the more yellow upper 1/3 bothering you?


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## AuthorMore

I think the Voyage is going to be great, I have not used it yet, but watched reviews on Youtube and so far think it looks like the best Kindle yet.


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## FearIndex

Thank you, guys. 



northofdivision said:


> Interesting, Fearindex. Thanks for the review. So you're saying that the Voyage 3g has more of a lighter bottom but a yellower top screen in regard to the light grid than what you saw on the Voyage wifi? Does this bother you less because you see less of it on lower light settings. We seem to have the same usage (reading in the low lighting or the dark and not needing the light in the day). At the lower settings (Let's say 9 and below), you can read well with the 3g without the more yellow upper 1/3 bothering you?


Well, I wouldn't say it doesn't bother me at all, but otherwise your analysis is correct - it feels better on those lower light levels than the first Voyage and the color gradient diminishes, although brightness gradient to an extent is still there.

This is indeed an intriguing question, since these device variances and personal preferences are not always so linear, so easy to interpret. What is undisputed is that my second Voyage (the 3G), has brighter frontlight than the first (the Wi-Fi). Set both on any level and the second Voyage will be brighter. It also doesn't have the pinhole of the first, which is a minor bonus.

After this it gets a bit more vague. Is the difference just LED tolerances (second Voyage having brighter LEDs?) or is it about the frontlight layer alignment too? You can check out the photo, for what limited it is worth, here and you may notice that the top seems brighter on the second Voyage (leftmost Voyage on the photo, next to the Kobo). The gradient, on the photo, is less pronounced in that second Voyage. This is in line with the idea that the light is brighter, so it will throw a longer beam so to speak, or it could also be caused by the frontlight layer itself.

But, and this is the interesting "but" you so accurately point out, when the light is up high, it doesn't mean the screen is more even, it just means the bottom lights up higher and then still fades towards the top. It just starts whiter and brighter on the bottom. Indeed, on brighter settings, this makes the gradient perhaps a bit more visible on the second, more brightly lit Voyage than on the first one, because the bottom is so lighted and white, the darker top seems more yellow in comparison. Is this caused by simply different LED tolerances, or different frontlight layer alignment/calibration, hard to say. All I know is, I can't just up the light one notch on the first Voyage to match the effect of the second, it will get too bright in comparison if I do that and look definitely different.

Roll down into lower settings and darkness reading, the brighter light on the second Voyage lasts a bit better towards the up of the screen, and as the lower light settings generally hide some of the color shift part of the gradient, the overall effect improves on lower light settings.

The question is: Does it improve enough to be a daily reader and not just a plaything? Time will tell.


----------



## Gone 9/21/18

I'm not sure if this is the right place, but rather than start a new thread, I'll post here. The 3G modem in my Voyage stopped working the night of 12/1. I called Amazon the next day 12/2. I don't have wifi. Instead of offering to replace it, which I expected, the Amazon people jacked me around for more than half an hour, press this, reboot that, etc., and when it started working again declared it fixed. 

The same problem reoccurred 12/5, so the fix lasted 3 days. I didn't get around to calling again until today. Call me naive, but I expected them to replace the thing without a quibble. Instead they started the same baloney as last time, first saying I need to update to the latest software - as if that should have anything to do with the modem quitting. As it happens, I only have 3G so I can't upgrade from home, and when over the weekend I took the thing to the library and got on its wifi, the upgrade option was still grayed out. To download the upgrade to my PC via dial up would take hours and probably fail at some point anyway.

So next they give me the old maybe the weather is bad and that's why the modem isn't working. (a) I got my first Kindle in May of 2008. I've had the K1, KK, and PW1, and not one of them ever failed to connect via 3G from my house; (b) I still have my Kindle Keyboard, and it's connecting just fine.

When did Amazon get so resistant to replacing a defective device? One of the things that's made me an Amazon fan is that they've always been generous about that sort of thing. My KK had the spontaneous rebooting problem, and they replaced it twice with barely a murmur. This time I feel I had to get unreasonably angry with some twinky who showed signs of never having seen a Voyage before before I got an offer to replace the new Voyage with a refurbished one.

I'm still so mad right now I'd like to throw things. If the new/old one has any problems, I'm just going to return it, order a PW (unfortunately I gave my PW1 away when I got the Voyage), and save a lot of money.


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## Andra

As you know that is out of character for Amazon. I might try again but this time insist on speaking to a supervisor and mention that you will be returning it if they can't/won't replace it.


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## skyblue

ellenoc said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place, but rather than start a new thread, I'll post here. The 3G modem in my Voyage stopped working the night of 12/1. I called Amazon the next day 12/2. I don't have wifi. Instead of offering to replace it, which I expected, the Amazon people jacked me around for more than half an hour, press this, reboot that, etc., and when it started working again declared it fixed.
> 
> The same problem reoccurred 12/5, so the fix lasted 3 days. I didn't get around to calling again until today. Call me naive, but I expected them to replace the thing without a quibble. Instead they started the same baloney as last time, first saying I need to update to the latest software - as if that should have anything to do with the modem quitting. As it happens, I only have 3G so I can't upgrade from home, and when over the weekend I took the thing to the library and got on its wifi, the upgrade option was still grayed out. To download the upgrade to my PC via dial up would take hours and probably fail at some point anyway.
> 
> So next they give me the old maybe the weather is bad and that's why the modem isn't working. (a) I got my first Kindle in May of 2008. I've had the K1, KK, and PW1, and not one of them ever failed to connect via 3G from my house; (b) I still have my Kindle Keyboard, and it's connecting just fine.
> 
> When did Amazon get so resistant to replacing a defective device? One of the things that's made me an Amazon fan is that they've always been generous about that sort of thing. My KK had the spontaneous rebooting problem, and they replaced it twice with barely a murmur. This time I feel I had to get unreasonably angry with some twinky who showed signs of never having seen a Voyage before before I got an offer to replace the new Voyage with a refurbished one.
> 
> I'm still so mad right now I'd like to throw things. If the new/old one has any problems, I'm just going to return it, order a PW (unfortunately I gave my PW1 away when I got the Voyage), and save a lot of money.


I've had a similar experience with my *Kindle Fire 7 HDX*. My issue is with the battery not charging. I posted this problem in the Kindle Fire forum. Today I spent another 35 minutes with a supervisor to replace the *THIRD REFURBISHED Fire HDX* they've sent me in 3 months. I've asked for a NEW unit, but they've sent me refurbished each time. To say I'm frustrated with Amazon Kindles is putting it mildly.

This supervisor insists that I will receive a new Kindle Fire this time. I'm not holding my breath. He also had the audacity to ask for a good review for his service. I told him I was reserving judgment until the next unit arrives.

I agree, the service is not what it used to be, but then again, I am not too sure about the quality either.


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## Gone 9/21/18

Well, now that I've had time to calm down, I realize the KK replacements I received were refurbished, and the third one I received has worked in a stellar manner from the day it came. To be honest the first two were probably fine. You may remember the Amazon case for those had metal hooks that went inside the Kindle. It was a neat way to fasten the cover, but while Amazon never admitted it, it became more or less accepted that the cases were causing the rebooting problem in a lot of the KKs. I returned that case when I read about the case causing the problem, and I think that's why my third KK never froze or rebooted.

Wish I hadn't been so quick to give my PW1 away, although I was never in love with it. Sounds like the PW2 might be a decent bet if the next Voyage is still a PITA. I'm not spending time on the phone with Amazon once a week over an item that expensive.


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## Toby

I'm sorry you both had bad experiences with CS. That must have been very frustrating.   Ellenoc, let us know if your next Voyage works. Skyblue, same thing. Let us know what happens.


----------



## FearIndex

As some of you may have read from my review here in KBoards - Kindle Oasis 3G (Black) review by FearIndex - I got my Kindle Oasis two and a half months ago to complement my active range Kindle Voyage, new Kindle basic and the Kobo H2O, all of which had their unique strengths and weaknesses. I still think the Kobo H2O has the best frontlight of all of these and am still a bit partial to the externally lit pure e-ink readers like Kindle 3 with its lighted cover...

The Kindle Oasis was a mixed bag too, especially its frontlight with its horizontal frontlight gradient. Fast forward two-three months and three-four books later, I must say I have grown very accustomed to the Kindle Oasis. It is now my only daily reader.

It almost seems like the horizontal gradient difference has grown lesser over time. I am now comfortable at swapping the reader to either reading orientation - this used to be the worst moment where the gradient changing from left to right could be most jarring. I'm not saying the gradient or any other unevenness isn't there anymore at all, but I have pretty much stopped seeing it. The light setting I've chosen seems good for my situation. The light cones on the side, those I don't notice at all anymore when reading, I had forgot about them completely. I would say I notice the gradient less than I did on the Voyage, which I eventually got used to as well.

Screen brightness I have settled on 7 for total darkness as well as natural light. It has pretty much stayed there.

I understand the screen light is a subjective experience (and there is too much unit to unit variance), so this is just mine. I don't think it is technically perfect at all, but it has gotten to the point where I really do forget about it while reading. So that's good.

I have also stopped using the touchscreen for page changes nearly completely. The new page keys are very good. Sometimes, depending on my posture, I will also drop the cover and enjoy the "nekkid" reading ergonomics. The magnetic cover makes that easy as pie, but this is usually for shorter periods. The new angled/asymmetrical ergonomics, plus the physical buttons of the Oasis certainly make single-handed reading very nice. But the new cover is good too, so mostly I just leave it on. Also, the location of the power button is now much better than on the Voyage. Those times the reader powers off while cover is attached and open, using the button is much easier to resurrect it (on the Voyage it meant opening the case up and finding the power button behind).

Really, the only thing I hate at the moment are the battery warnings when the cover starts running low. I would definitely like an option where only the total battery would cause a warning, not the cover battery. Also, as a software suggestion, I would prefer to be able to lock the page numbers/location in the bottom bar, now I sometimes (like on previous touch Kindles) accidentally change that mode and I don't want to know things like time estimates. I would also prefer to have, in addition to a lock bottom info mode, an option to get back the old Kindle reading bar. I think that was the best. I would lock that in place, if available.


----------



## Gone 9/21/18

Seeing this thread active made me realize I never updated re my Voyage. The refurbished one has always worked fine, although I never liked it all that much. I'm one of those who wanted buttons again passionately, but the fake buttons on the Voyage never did it for me. The screen is flawless but the white of it is too glaringly intense for me.

So I now have an Oasis and am in love with it. It's everything the Voyage IMO is not. There are still a few things I'd fix, change, but none of them are enough to keep me from loving the device.



FearIndex said:


> Really, the only thing I hate at the moment are the battery warnings when the cover starts running low. I would definitely like an option where only the total battery would cause a warning, not the cover battery. Also, as a software suggestion, I would prefer to be able to lock the page numbers/location in the bottom bar, now I sometimes (like on previous touch Kindles) accidentally change that mode and I don't want to know things like time estimates. I would also prefer to have, in addition to a lock bottom info mode, an option to get back the old Kindle reading bar. I think that was the best. I would lock that in place, if available.


FearIndex has hit upon several things on my wishlist. I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate the battery warning over just the cover's charge, but I think if the unit switched to the device battery when the cover battery reached a certain low level and there was no warning until the device then hit a certain level, it would be a far better thing for those of us who read in the cover. A way to lock in the ever-changing location/time to end indicator would be nice. I think when the device is put in landscape mode, everything should change, including the home screen and store, and I think the buttons should work everywhere.


----------



## barryem

I find the Voyage nearly ideal.  I don't care about buttons and I leave those turned off.  I don't like the self-adjusting light feature so it stays turned off.  To me the Voyage is a smaller and lighter Paperwhite that's more comfortable to hold.  Not that the Paperwhite was uncomfortable.

I keep the light as dim as I can comfortably read with so there's no glare at all.  On any of them if I turn the light too high it seems glaring.

I'm an old guy now and I've been reading steadily since I was a kid and I remember once as a young teen laying in bed trying to imagine how to improve on a book.  I always read paperrbacks and I found the idea of a huge crease bending the page in the center to be awkward and distracting when I thought about it.  Of course I never thought about it while I was reading but while thinking about it I decided the perfect way to read would be a small flat slab that had a scroll of paper in it that I could just move up as needed to read farther down the page long book.  I thought about that a lot of times with many variations but I never really expected to see it.

Then I got my first Palm Pilot and there it was.  It was too small and the screen was poor but it was close enough and I was in love.  It just kept getting better and better till today I have my Voyage, which far exceeds my original wish.

I didn't get the Oasis although I have no doubt that it's better.  Rhe tiny battery in it makes me nervous that it won't last long and it's just too expensive for what might turn out to be a year or two.  However I keep hoping the next new Kindle will be that small and light and pretty much the same thing but with a large battery and no battery cover.  I'll get that one.

Barry


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## northofdivision

Fear Index, do you think Amazon will ever make a front lit e-reader to your standard? I'm surprised Kobo got the lighting completely right for me but wonder what's next in e-ink tech that could get those who see Kindle lighting as problematic (myself included) satiated. 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## FearIndex

northofdivision said:


> Fear Index, do you think Amazon will ever make a front lit e-reader to your standard? I'm surprised Kobo got the lighting completely right for me but wonder what's next in e-ink tech that could get those who see Kindle lighting as problematic (myself included) satiated.


A good question. I have no insight into the Amazon R&D process, so it is very hard to base my opinion on anything other than the existing historical record. Given the historical perspective, I fear Amazon may not ever quite get where I'd like them to be with frontlights and where I think Kobo got with their frontlight. Indeed, the Voyage and Oasis are actually worse in some respects than Paperwhite 2 - introducing their respective vertical and horizontal gradients from whiteish to yellowish. Paperwhite 2 is probably the best frontlight from Amazon to me, but still inferior to the Kobo H2O frontlight.

But of course, the Kindle Oasis is a great e-reader in other respects and I've gotten used to the frontlight. Kobo H2O lacks the convenience of the Kindle bookstore and my other Kindles have their cons compared to the Oasis too. I still notice the gradient at times (it hasn't disappeared or anything), but overall I get along with the Oasis - as I did the Voyage after one replacement.

I think I would still really prefer Kindle 3 -like lighted cover and no frontlight as optimal, with a modern spec reader like the Oasis, but one must go with what is available. I do like the basic touch Kindle and the purity of no layers (not even a capacitive touch) above the screen. It is just inconvenient with an external light for me and the size/specs aren't the greatest anymore, but I do like the purity of that plain e-ink screen...

Still, I do think I should check out the newest basic Kindle in white at some point.


----------



## FearIndex

Heh, I got to thinking it and put in an order for the new white basic Kindle, with the white cover and the white recommended reading light.

I want to see what it feels like - and the return to white is interesting too. I did like the previous basic Kindle and then-recommended Verso clip light (reviews in my signature), but the size/weight of the Kindle and the impracticality of a separate reading light eventually gave it a back seat compared to my other e-readers.

I wonder if the white is jarring with a light or compared to the greyness of the screen - or if the low screen resolution feels terribly outdated. We shall see.


----------



## barryem

I think a lot of people make the mistake of comparing ereaders with one another instead of comparing the reading experiences on those ereaders.  I'm not accusing you of this.  I have no idea how you decided you don't like the Kindle's front light.  But I do know a lot of people do that.

I currently have all 3 Paperwhite models and a Voyage and a Kobo Aura.  I did have a Kobo Glo (not HD) as well, which I gave to a friend who needed one.  The Aura probably has the worse front lighted screen of any ereader.  The Kobo Glo was much more evenly lit.  All 4 of my Kindles have better lighting than my Aura, by far.  Even the first generation Paperwhite, which was far less even than the later ones.

If I put these side by side it's really hard not to pick the Paperwhite 3 has having the best screen with the best lighting.  There's no contest.  And the Kobo Aura looks terrible by comparision.

That said, I read on all of them and, while I prefer the Voyage for reading, because it's more comfortable in my hand, the differences in my reading experiences on them are so slight I'd be happy with any of them as my only reader.  Actually I'd be miserable with only one reader but if I had to have just one I'd prefer a Voyage but any of them would be fine.

It's kind of like kicking the tires on cars before you buy.  One will always feel best but how much does that say about the quality of the car.  I, being smarter than to fall for that old tire kicking thing, picked my cars by turning on the radio.  If it gave me Beethoven, Bach or Vivaldi that was the car for me. 

Barry


----------



## FearIndex

barryem said:


> I think a lot of people make the mistake of comparing ereaders with one another instead of comparing the reading experiences on those ereaders. I'm not accusing you of this. I have no idea how you decided you don't like the Kindle's front light. But I do know a lot of people do that.


Fair comment, especially when people make decisions based on initial impressions. As for me, basically the experience comes from owning the products - basically most Kindles and some competition - and through having exchanged a number of e-ink Kindles as well, so seeing multiple units of some (not a huge number, but still giving some added perspectives). I have read on all of them and actually would agree that one thing that has pushed me towards Paperwhite 2, Voyage and Oasis has been the overall improvements in the reading and usability experience. I've read on them despite the frontlight, not because of it. Paperwhite 1 was too poor to really read on, though - that's when this thread was originally started.



barryem said:


> I currently have all 3 Paperwhite models and a Voyage and a Kobo Aura. I did have a Kobo Glo (not HD) as well, which I gave to a friend who needed one. The Aura probably has the worse front lighted screen of any ereader. The Kobo Glo was much more evenly lit. All 4 of my Kindles have better lighting than my Aura, by far. Even the first generation Paperwhite, which was far less even than the later ones.


It is my understanding that Kobo Aura H2O is the one where Kobo really got the frontlight right. I don't claim expertise on the Kobo range, but that is consensus that I got at that time and did buy a H2O based on those recommendations and deemed it the most even frontlight I've had (if you want to see how I came to these conclusions, my signature has my local reviews). It still remains so.



barryem said:


> If I put these side by side it's really hard not to pick the Paperwhite 3 has having the best screen with the best lighting. There's no contest. And the Kobo Aura looks terrible by comparision.


It is quite possible Paperwhite 3 is an improvement over Paperwhite 2, which was already an improvement over Paperwhite 1. Also I believe Aura H2O has a better frontlight than e.g. previous Aura. And I'm sure there are unit to unit differences in all of these.

Too bad the Voyage and Oasis introduced the colored gradients. I don't have a Paperwhite 3, I do have 1, 2, Voyage and Oasis plus most of the non-lit Kindles.



barryem said:


> It's kind of like kicking the tires on cars before you buy. One will always feel best but how much does that say about the quality of the car. I, being smarter than to fall for that old tire kicking thing, picked my cars by turning on the radio. If it gave me Beethoven, Bach or Vivaldi that was the car for me. .


While overall I agree, the value of the combination of features that a product has certainly ends up being a subjective observation. I don't quite agree the overall analysis of the frontlight itself would be, though. There certainly is empirical evidence available that suggests certain trends and qualities that objectively differ between the frontlights of different products. While one may have their preferences, and unit to unit variance is sometimes too high, and observation has its limits, things like evenness are not exactly subjective.

Given time and enough experiences between the products, some trends certainly become visible. As an extreme example, I think most by now would agree the Paperwhite 1 frontlight was an uneven product with high probablity of both stagelighting and splotchiness. The Voyage/Oasis widely have a high probability of color gradient, and Oasis may have a higher probability of stagelighting than Voyage (and the location of the lights on the side may be more disturbing) etc...

By the way, I do agree the Kindles overall are far superior e-readers compared to the Kobo Aura H2O. So above is commentary on the frontlight only. My personal favorite e-reader would mix and match features from a range of products.

I'm still reviewing my Kindle order to Amazon that I started yesterday. I think I'll give the new basic Kindle and perhaps the Paperwhite 3 a personal try, too. It has been a constant struggle to find the most suited Kindle since the good old days of the Kindle 3 and the lighted cover. I guess that anxiety really captures my personal troubles with the frontlit Kindles... they have features I like, and the basic Kindles have been left by the wayside, but at the same time I am not quite as enamored with the reading experience I was with the earliest Kindles and the way the "pure" e-ink was paperlike instead of screenlike.


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## FearIndex

Just revised my order to Amazon, ordered both the black and white new basic Kindle and the white Paperwhite 3 plus Amazon covers in a couple of colors as well as Belkin lights in both black and white. I will revisit the idea of using an external light and the optimal color combination for that. The Paperwhite 3 has added to see if it might strike the best compromise in frontlit screen quality and offer an improvement in overall device aesthetics.

Let's see if any of these are enough to unseat the Oasis.  I do like the new fresh device and case colors Amazon has come up with. Always did like my Kindle 2 appearance.


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## barryem

I wasn't really trying to influence your choice with my comments. I felt like I was participating in a discussion, not trying to sell anything.

I have a Voyage and it's what I use about half the time.  It's screen seems perfect to me.  I prefer the color of the Paperwhite 3's screen when they're side by side but they seem equally even and I've never seen any kind of color shifting.

I live in a retirement home and, being a geek, I'm the one everyone comes to for help with their ereaders so I've seen a lot of them.  I've never see a color gradient on any of them.  Maybe that's just a matter of luck or maybe it's just something my old eyes can't see.  By the way this is my second Voyage.  My first. although it's screen was perfect, had a faulty 3G radio so it was replaced after about a week.

Something else to consider is that the variations from one unit to the next are usually more pronounced than the variations between models.  always been true of e-ink screens.

I probably do half my reading on my Voyage.  I probably do about 1/3 of the rest of  my reading on the Paperwhite 1.  In the house my Voyage is my first choice usually.  When I go outside I usually take the Paperwhite 1, since it's the one I care least about losing.  If I come back in I usually won't change readers to continue the session so I read with it both indoors and outdoors.  I have to agree it's screen light is the least even of my Kindles but once I start reading I don't notice that.  I just read and it's fine.

If you think about how you read paper under a light, that's almost never even.  The portion closest to the light will be brighter.  Or, if it's placed completely perpendicular to the light a portion will have just a bit of glare.  It's not particularly uneven but it's not very even either.  And nobody really cares.  For some reason I think we tend to be fussier with the lighting on Kindles than with paper.

Barry


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## FearIndex

Yes yes, I was just moving the conversation along in response. As you may notice, I am fairly passionate about the e-ink screen.  Always looking for the perfect solution in an imperfect e-ink world...

I appreciate your notes, barryem. Very fair messages.

Personally, not to argue any point, but to further share my experience, a few more comments:

I have discussed extensively both the unit to unit variance of e-ink and/or frontlight as well as the reading light evenness question in my previous posting history, so these are not new topics or ideas for me either.

I have personally owned something like five different $69 basic Kindles and seen the non-lit screen variations within the same model - not to mention a bunch of other Kindles of course. There are variations in both background and text lightness/blackness and even in e-ink ghosting qualities. The front-light layers add their own to the mix. Also, I know the Kindle 3 cover light (still my favorite Kindle were it not so outdated now) casts an uneven light. Most external lights of course do. There are even unit-to-unit variances in the lights of Amazons (and others) lighted covers, I've explored these in my signature reviews.

That said, my personal experience, armchair research and analytical judgement says there are obvious trend differences between e-ink product models as well. Certain things are more likely to happen in certain models, for a multitude of reasons. For example, I find a non-lit e-ink reader a much safer purchase because there is less (none) layer alignment issues. On the other hand, different frontlit models do have their usual characteristics, even if all can be affected by unit-to-unit variance.

There is IMO sufficient and mounting evidence that this is the case. Paperwhite 1, very likely to have stagelighting and splotches, much less likely than in a Voyage, for instance. Reverse, Voyage much more likely to have a yellow-to-white top-down gradient than the Paperwhite 1.

As for the uneven reading light, the thing is - and I certainly acknowledge this part of the experience is subjective - an uneven light is less disturbing than a screen that appears to be uneven. The latter, to me, is simply more jarring since it happens in a well-defined box. A light covers all surrounding surfaces as well, so the transitions are more benign and natural. But a lit screen is very defined, very sharp contrast to the outside world. If it is uneven, it shows up differently compared to external lighting.

So, while the unevenness or nature of an external light is not insignificant (an insufficient light or light of too strong color, for example, do bother me), the threshold to an acceptable result is lower due to no expectation in the brain that this box would be of an even color.

As for paper (especially cheaper paperbacks) being uneven too, which is an argument by some, I don't consider that relevant to people sensitive to screen evenness. Paper is a physical object that is attached to each page that is read. It does not remain same uneven when you turn the page. And if one page is bad quality, no problem, the next is better, or the next book anyway... For a light background that remains the same behind a wall of text every page (like on an e-ink reader for mainly novel reading) the expectations of evenness and quality become more easily higher, because it has to stand the test of reading over and over again... and an uneven background there tends to jump out.


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## barryem

I guess what it amounts to is that I'm not bothered much by an uneven front light and you are.  I was just reading for a few minutes on my Kobo Aura, easily the most unevenly lit reader I have.  It's splotchy and varied compared even to my Paperwhite 1, my most uneven Kindle.  In fact I'd feel safe betting that it's the most unevenly lit ereader screen ever made. 

However, it fits my hand perfectly.  It's far and away the most comfortable reader to hold for extended periods.  It weighs practically nothing.  It's exactly what an ereader should be and if it had the same feature set and mode of operation of my Kindles it would be my favorite reader.  The screen is the worse of them all but it's still just fine.  That doesn't bother me.  If only it had Kindle features. 

Barry


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## FearIndex

barryem said:


> I guess what it amounts to is that I'm not bothered much by an uneven front light and you are. I was just reading for a few minutes on my Kobo Aura, easily the most unevenly lit reader I have. It's splotchy and varied compared even to my Paperwhite 1, my most uneven Kindle. In fact I'd feel safe betting that it's the most unevenly lit ereader screen ever made.
> 
> However, it fits my hand perfectly. It's far and away the most comfortable reader to hold for extended periods. It weighs practically nothing. It's exactly what an ereader should be and if it had the same feature set and mode of operation of my Kindles it would be my favorite reader. The screen is the worse of them all but it's still just fine. That doesn't bother me. If only it had Kindle features.


Interesting to hear your experiences. Always nice to gain perspectives! Thank you.

I understand that how much and what type of unevenness bothers people is subjective. I also agree that e-reading, like anything else, is a question of the whole experience, not just a part of it. Hence why I don't read on Kindle 3 anymore, even though in many ways it was the most successful Kindle for me... it is just outdated by now in so many respects, for me. And why Paperwhite 2, Voyage and Oasis in the end, after some unit replacements, became workable for me... most of the time. They have some very nice features to compensate any screen issues.

One thing that I've noticed that affects the screen evenness question is the reading situation. I have noticed that many people most bothered by the unevenness are people who read in the dark, like myself. Darkness (without other lights) clearly makes the unevenness more apparent as there is very little to no external lighting to even it out. I am often surprised how even frontlit Kindles look in daylight. The problem is that is not my usual reading scenario.

All this said, I notice the Oasis gradient sometimes still, but other than that I read a lot of books on it. It is an ideal design in so many other ways.


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## FearIndex

FearIndex said:


> Heh, I got to thinking it and put in an order for the new white basic Kindle, with the white cover and the white recommended reading light.
> 
> I want to see what it feels like - and the return to white is interesting too. I did like the previous basic Kindle and then-recommended Verso clip light (reviews in my signature), but the size/weight of the Kindle and the impracticality of a separate reading light eventually gave it a back seat compared to my other e-readers.
> 
> I wonder if the white is jarring with a light or compared to the greyness of the screen - or if the low screen resolution feels terribly outdated. We shall see.


Got these devices and posted a bit of a review. I must say I like the colors of the latest round of Amazon Kindle products - and the updates are improvements.

That said, I think the Kindle Oasis remains an imperfect but best Kindle at the moment.


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## barryem

FearIndex said:


> All this said, I notice the Oasis gradient sometimes still, but other than that I read a lot of books on it. It is an ideal design in so many other ways.


I haven't actually seen an Oasis. I've just read and watched a lot of reviews. I like the idea of it and it's small size. I'm concerned about the longevity of that too-small internal battery so I decided not to get one. Still I'm tempted. I also don't care for buttons and that wide bezel to accomodate tham is a bit off-putting. Probably if either of those weren't concerns I'd eventually talk myself into one. As it is, I doubt if I will. Too bad. I really think I'd like reading on it.

Barry


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## ShinyTop

I cannot speak to the design team of the Oasis so they may have made one bezel wider only to accommodate the page turn buttons.  My love of that wide bezel is I finally have a reader I can easily and comfortably read one handed.  I can use one hand laying down, sitting up, it truly does not matter.  The page turn buttons are a plus.  The light weight without the cover is another huge bonus for extended reading sessions.  I am either blessed with an even screen or eyes that do not see the variation in color many have posted about.  

Battery life of the smaller battery is also of little importance.  I have reached the stage i life I can replace the Oasis annually if I had to but I imagine it will last much longer than that.  I do all my reading outside the cover but place it in the cover whenever I am not reading.  I also only use in my home or rented place when on vacation.  When about town and I want to read, say at the dr's while waiting, I use the Kindle app on my phone.  I find it perfectly adequate to use and I always have it with me so no need to remember additional items that could get lost.

I have been reading on the Kindle app on my phone for many years.  My first Kindle reader was the Voyage so I don't have the long experience with various models that some have.  I had a passing interest in the giant Kobo Aura One (7.8 screen) but the bezels are thin without page turn buttons so I doubt its one handed ease of use.


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## barryem

Like you I read on my phone when I'm out and about.  The doctor's office; waiting in line at the grocery, etc.  The Kindle app is okay but I prefer Moon+ reader because I can scroll instead of paging.  If the LCD didn't give me eyestrain if I read too long that would be my preferred way of reading.  For me it's just right.

Whatever I'm reading on I hold it with one hand and turn pages with the other.  When I had a Kindle 3 with buttons, also a Kindle 4, I did the same thing.  If I didn't keep my hands away from the button I was always turning pages accidentally.  I found it much more efficient to turn pages with the other hand, kind of like I always did with papeer.

Now with the touch screen I do the same thing.  I'm able to use one hand for both holding it and turning pages.  My thumb can manage the page turns.  But that's awkward and using the other hand for that is an old habit.

By the way, someone, I think on Mobilereads, suggested a tablet romote control for page turns.  I just got one a few minutes ago but I haven't tried it yet.  This will have no practical value for me since I don't read on a tablet but for people who do it's said to work well.  I want to try it for controling the volume while watching videos, etc.

Barry


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