# Moonfire Trilogy Launch UPDATE: day 2



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

OK, a lot of people have been talking about launch plans, and I don't want to hijack anyone else's thread. I mentioned on the no-bestseller thread that I'm looking at launching a trilogy later this year.

I've opened a scrivener file and wrote 10,000 words out of 240,000. Ouch.

A lot of planning needs to go into this. Not the writing. I pants and I will pants this. I have full confidence that 1. I can write this, and 2. I can do so within the time frame. Hey, it's only 1474 words a day.

But I haven't done much in the way of new releases lately. I have released lots of books, but they've all been subsequent books in series, and so are reliant on book 1. This is the first time in a loooooong time that I'm starting something new. Well, sort-of.

The Icefire Trilogy has been my overall biggest seller. It's pulled in about half my total income from writing since I started. I've promised people a second trilogy for yonks. So I'm going to write this. It's a 15-years-later thing, but it's designed with different characters and you absolutely do not need to have read the first trilogy to understand the new one. I'm hoping the referral engine will work both ways.

First, these parameters are set:
- Launch date of the first book: 24 August at the very latest
- The books will be, and will remain, wide. The existing trilogy has sold MUCH better on other platforms than on Amazon, and I'd be NUTS to try this in Select. Select is not an option.

Now we get into the murky bits.

At the moment: the covers.

The first three books have these covers:










I did these myself, and they're sort-of modelled on the pale epic fantasy covers by Brent Weeks, Brandon Sanderson and others. The books used to have other covers, which I also made. I never saw much difference in sales after the change. I quite like the covers, except for the typography on book 3.

I want to make clear from the covers that the books are in the same world, but different, so I made these covers for the second series:










Months ago, I sourced an absolutely awesome cover designer to do all six, but meanwhile, the Australian dollar tumbled, and to do all six books (and I couldn't just do the three), I'm looking at $6000 of my money, on top of edit/proofread/format, before I could publish these.

Seriously, YIKES!

So yeah, I have a bit of a will-I-won't-I thing about using these covers I made, going with that cover designer or finding someone else to do it. Maybe. I don't know. Talk to me about what you think. I have plenty of time to make up my mind. My question: is it worth spending (a lot of) money getting covers, given the current ones?


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## Gone Girl (Mar 7, 2015)

We miss you, Harvey Chute.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

I like the second trilogy's covers MUCH better than the first. They're more visually arresting. $1,000 per a cover is pretty much hugely expensive - just be sure that they'll be awesome sauce if you go that route. Also, do you need to read the FIRST trilogy to get into the second? If not, just let the covers for the second set stand as a higher grade until the funds come back to redo the first set.


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> So yeah, I have a bit of a will-I-won't-I thing about using these covers I made, going with that cover designer or finding someone else to do it. Maybe. I don't know. Talk to me about what you think. I have plenty of time to make up my mind. My question: is it worth spending (a lot of) money getting covers, given the current ones?


I wouldn't. I think the ones you made look great, and have exceptionally good branding for fans who liked the first trilogy. My instinct is to say that re-branding the second trilogy would not be nearly as effective as sticking with the branding fans-who-loved-the-first-trilogy will immediately recognize.

Besides, $6,000 for something that *might* make slight improvement, but might very well also *damage* recognizability for your core fans? Yeah, I wouldn't do it.


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## Marina Finlayson (May 2, 2014)

I think your ones look fab. The pro ones would have to be pretty darn special to be worth paying that much more, when these are so nice anyway, and very clearly branded.

And I love your thread title!


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## Adair Hart (Jun 12, 2015)

Another vote for keeping the covers as you have them displayed.  I love those swords, especially the ones on the second set,  and think the branding is spot on.  

Bookmarking this thread, so in late August when the first book launches, we can all pop some virtual champagne!


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## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Have to agree, the covers look pro, Patty. I know people sometimes consider swords cliche, but there's nuance here I'm really enjoying.


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## Raquel Lyon (Mar 3, 2012)

I have nothing to add to what the others have said already. Your new set of covers look great and more 'pro' than a lot of other 'pro' ones I've seen. Save your money. They'll do the job admirably.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Another vote for keeping the covers you've already made. They are branded in such a way that it's obvious they're related to the original series, BUT they're new. Love it. Don't change it. 

Good luck with this new spin-off series, Patty! It's so much fun starting a new project. Have you put it up on iBooks yet?


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## scifi365 (Sep 12, 2014)

Is that $6,000 US Dollars or AUD? Even if it's Australian dollars, that's still $4,300-ish USD. So, go with your covers. They're awesome-ness (yes, that is a word.)


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

The way I'd look at it is this - will the $6000 have a decent ROI. 

Your covers look great. They definitely don't look *home made* and clearly spell out the genre. Say your covers would rate a 7/10. is it worth the investment to go from that to say a 9/10?  I'd say not. If you were going from something that say 3/10 then yeah.

It's not just the actual cost of $6000 but also looking at, if you are going to spend $6000, would the jump in cover design be worth it compared to say the extra sales from pumping that extra $6000 into promotion (I'm not even sure how you'd spend that much on a promo budget). If you look at it from that angle, you'd evaluate it looking at the ROI you'd expect from your promotion $ vs the ROI you' get from fancy new covers.

I hope that makes sense. I have a cold at the moment and my brain is fuzzy.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

I really like those covers!


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

Yet another vote here for your own covers (is it a landslide yet?). The second set, in particular, is very striking, and the branding is terrific.


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## George Saoulidis (Feb 2, 2016)

The original ones need some contrast between elements, the blade and the background more specifically. They are very good otherwise.
The designer ones are badass. They will sell.
I'm not sure I understand your situation, but why don't you settle this with the designer? How about paying him a downpayment and doing a personal signed agreement you'll pay the rest in a year? He can take one glimpse on your library and see you are in it for the long haul, it is a minor risk for him.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

George Saoulidis said:


> The original ones need some contrast between elements, the blade and the background more specifically. They are very good otherwise.
> The designer ones are bad*ss. They will sell.
> I'm not sure I understand your situation, but why don't you settle this with the designer? How about paying him a downpayment and doing a personal signed agreement you'll pay the rest in a year? He can take one glimpse on your library and see you are in it for the long haul, it is a minor risk for him.


I'm not sure you understand this. There are no designer covers in this thread. Both these sets I've done myself. I've not committed with anyone, and the designer I picked out knows nothing of this at all. I just know the prices, and I know that since I picked out the designer, currency changes have made this designer so much more expensive. If I do one book, I have to do all six.

Kathryn gets my dilemma. I love awesome cover design, but once covers convey genre and are decent, extra money spent on them might be pure luxury. I'm doing the pure luxury thing with the Ambassador covers by Tom Edwards, but I'm not sure it's a good business decision spending that much on these covers while the first three books, with the top three covers, are selling OK. I somehow doubt that spending three cool grand on those covers will make the books sell that much better.

OK, it looks like the covers will stay.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> OK, it looks like the covers will stay.


Are you crazy? Of course those covers should stay! I've been lucky enough to have some great artists, illustrators and designers working on some of my books, and I'd have been delighted had the publisher come back with covers as strong as these. You've done an amazing job, and I don't know how much better covers you'd get for that $6,000. Certainly not better enough to generate $6000+ in income, I wouldn't imagine.

Stick with your version. They're great.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

For me, it would depend on what the prior series was doing in sales and what the reasonable expectation would be. I'm for wow factor covers, personally, but if the sales of potential of this series doesn't justify it (given that you should have some idea of audience since it is related to the other series), the ones you made are probably good enough.


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## Allyson J. (Nov 26, 2014)

D-C said:


> Another vote for keeping the covers you've already made. They are branded in such a way that it's obvious they're related to the original series, BUT they're new. Love it. Don't change it.


Yep. This. They look great.


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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

Unless that 6k can get you covers made of actual, lickable chocolate delivered straight to the Kindle (shut up it could happen), stick with the ones you posted here. They are GORGEOUS! They also, IMO, give your books a bit of a "highbrow" look that could cross over well into print or more "literary" places. 

Also, I'm totally fangirling you, because your plan sounds really close to my plan for my next sci-fi romance trilogy. "I pants and I will pants this" is my new theme song.

If you want to try a different artist, you could do so for box sets or "limited edition anthologies" (because these look like they'd be more at home with the "limited edition anthology" set than the "box set" set. But honestly, your covers are superb. Go pants and spend the money on editing, promoting, and champagne for when you hit a list.


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## Azalea (Mar 22, 2014)

The second set of covers is much stronger than the first. It seems you've improved as a cover designer over time?  
I agree with George S. about the contrast on the first set (either the background or the swords, or both, need more), and would add that the images behind the sword are a little bit less clear and "popping." I'm not a great typographer, but I can still see the obvious difference there, too. 

Since you obviously have the skill, in your position I'd reassess the first set and re-do them myself. That way you can keep both your obvious branding for the existing fans, get a jump in quality in the cover set that would receive a bigger "step" up, and keep your money in your pocket. 

As others have said, the second set is very good, and I'm not sure how much better they'd get without spending a significant amount of money.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Azalea Ellis said:


> The second set of covers is much stronger than the first. It seems you've improved as a cover designer over time?
> I agree with George S. about the contrast on the first set (either the background or the swords, or both, need more), and would add that the images behind the sword are a little bit less clear and "popping." I'm not a great typographer, but I can still see the obvious difference there, too.
> 
> Since you obviously have the skill, in your position I'd reassess the first set and re-do them myself. That way you can keep both your obvious branding for the existing fans, get a jump in quality in the cover set that would receive a bigger "step" up, and keep your money in your pocket.
> ...


This is what I would do, too. Tweak the first set to improve the typography at the least. That ampersand is just awesome. 

I really love the second set and have a hard time imagining how a designer could improve on it short of hiring out for custom illustration. But then if you did that, you've got enough skill to do the typography yourself.

Best of luck with the pantsing!

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> OK, it looks like the covers will stay.


Yes! I love the covers.


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## Craig Martelle (Feb 6, 2016)

Your original covers are great. They will get your readers to give the books a try.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

Your covers are great, Patty! No need to waste money hiring someone to do what you've already done better. Wish I had your skills!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

OK, since I have established that the covers will do the job...

(I'm making some changes to the original trilogy, I may do an ampersand thingie on those, too, and probably get rid of that bevel effect--hey, the joys of being able to change things!)

...Launch and pricing.

I'm thinking I might do a 99c pre-order starting late May and finishing on 24 August. When, or just before, book 1 goes live, I'll put up a pre-order of book 2 for 24 September and book 3 for 24 October if I feel confident enough that I'll make those dates. At this point, that should be doable, but life happens. I put up a preorder for a different book this week and the book is essentially done already. I might put up pre-orders for those books on other platforms as soon as I have something that resembles a manuscript. I could even just put the cover on Apple.

Question: would you go 99c or $2.99 for the first book?


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## Tulonsae (Apr 12, 2015)

Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

I also love your covers, Patty.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> OK, since I have established that the covers will do the job...
> 
> (I'm making some changes to the original trilogy, I may do an ampersand thingie on those, too, and probably get rid of that bevel effect--hey, the joys of being able to change things!)
> 
> ...


Going for a release every three months you should do well whatever.

I was planning to release my first at 99c for a week and run some promo's in opening week (the advantage of pre-order), then bump the price up to normal.

That's with a new trilogy though... With yours, I'd be tempted to just go for $2.99 from the get go as you already have an audience that will give you an initial bump to help with the algo's.

Good luck!


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## Nicholas Erik (Sep 22, 2015)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - and even though you said you were keeping the covers, I'll throw it out there anyway - is getting just one of the covers redone.

Book 1 of your existing series. 

Then you can split test the fancy new cover versus your original. That will cost $1000, so not chump change, plus there are gonna be some ad costs. But you could get a definitive picture by tracking A) downloads with your original cover vs. B) downloads with your "new and improved" cover. Also, click-through-rate on Facebook ads. That type of stuff. You already have all the data for Cover A - or can easily get it - so it would be a fairly straightforward test that would give you a definitive answer. 

Would give you a very clear picture of whether or not to move forward and whether the outlay would be worth it. Maybe your downloads triple or something. That'd be cool. On the other hand, maybe the original cover generates more downloads. So it stays. FWIW, they're well-designed, definitely look pro, and get the fantasy theme across, so I think they're already doing their job. 

Finally, if you're "stuck" with the $1,000 cover in the event it "loses," you could maybe either A) ask the designer to change the title and use it for a standalone/new series/special story in the same series (bonus for subscribers etc.) or B) use it for some sort of limited edition - maybe a signed paperback or hardback or something that you could upsell to your mailing list, on one of the little winding paths you send them off on depending on where they click?

Nick


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## scifi365 (Sep 12, 2014)

With all due respect, Nicholas Erik, you can't split test anything where you don't have access to all the data. Maybe you get more click throughs on Facebook for Version A, maybe you sell more in the period where you're showing the A variant. And what have you learnt from this? Absolutely nothing. A/B testing only works when you are sending 50% of the traffic to version 1 and 50% to version 2 and you can be sure you can track the sales difference (or whatever metrics you are measuring) back to the Version that sent the traffic.  Amazon (or Kobo) or whomever has the end point data and you don't.

You would also need to be able to somehow switch the covers on a third party landing page according to which of the A/B variants are sending that traffic. Otherwise, you can have cover A showing on the Facebook ad and Cover B showing on the Amazon landing page. So, what would you learn from this? Well, if you actually had access to the data (and, of course, the other data points like how many Amazon originated clicks the page showing Cover B was getting), you might learn something.

But, really, you can't do this. You'll make really bad decisions.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update:

I've completed 20,000 words and am really liking the story and characters so far. I'm sure there will come a time that I hate them, because there always is and I know that's OK.

In addition to keeping the covers, I think I will go with the 99c pre-order for 3 months starting 26 May to 24 August. 

I've decided to, instead of having other covers done, to spend some of that money on upgrading the first trilogy. That was the first ever complete series I brought out, and my writing style has changed quite a lot. Then I'll look at those covers, and might do the ampersand thing for those covers as well.


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## Tulonsae (Apr 12, 2015)

Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## George Saoulidis (Feb 2, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> Then I'll look at those covers, and might do the ampersand thing for those covers as well.


Yes, I think the ampersand looks wicked cool. Good luck!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Book 1 ampersandified. Hmmm. Not sure.


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## Abderian (Apr 5, 2012)

I think it looks great.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

It's a simple ROI calculation. If the first trilogy, with those covers, brings in half your revenue, and the second set of covers are even nicer and will be recognizable to your fans, are you better off with designer whiz-bang covers that may or may not increase sales? Or should you spend the money on promotion? You'd have to sell, what, 2000 books just to pay off the covers?


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

I think the covers you made are fantastic.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> Book 1 ampersandified. Hmmm. Not sure.


Oooh! Shiny! 

Could you try a different colour on the ampersand or maybe lighten it? I think it's too close in colour to the handguard of the sword/dagger and the E and I kind of disappear against it.

But otherwise I think it looks awesome! Nice upgrade. 

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Tulonsae (Apr 12, 2015)

Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Book 1 ampersandified. Hmmm. Not sure.


Ah, this is nitpicking but the two problems I have with the cover is that I can't tell what the background is behind the sword--is it an icy mountain range, a snowflake, something else? I get the 'ice' part but not the 'fire' part so much.

Second thing is the blurb at the top--is that meant to be Kevin J Anderson, the co-author of some Dune books with Brian Herbert (among many other titles)? Saying 'author of the Dune novels' doesn't seem quite right; I'd say Frank Herbert would carry that title.

Nitpicking, like I said.


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## WrittenWordMediaTeam (Oct 23, 2012)

Personally, I like the "&" update. As a note, we typically recommend $0.99 for preorders  Best of luck with the writing and launch!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> Ah, this is nitpicking but the two problems I have with the cover is that I can't tell what the background is behind the sword--is it an icy mountain range, a snowflake, something else? I get the 'ice' part but not the 'fire' part so much.
> 
> Second thing is the blurb at the top--is that meant to be Kevin J Anderson, the co-author of some Dune books with Brian Herbert (among many other titles)? Saying 'author of the Dune novels' doesn't seem quite right; I'd say Frank Herbert would carry that title.
> 
> Nitpicking, like I said.


This is the time for nitpicking, because I'm making other changes to the books.

The background is frost on a window with the sun shining through. All the backgrounds are texture rather than having to represent a recognisable thing.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update: 41k written on book 1. I started on 19 Feb so that's not bad going.

I started the upgrade on book 1 of the first series.

I'm quite tempted to put the pre-order at $2.99. I'm doing my second-ever pre-order right now. I've written to my mailing list that they can still get the book for 99c for a day, but I won't let anyone else except my mailing list know when the book is going to be at 99c. This is an experiment and I might do it with this new series if it works well enough.

I also sent an announcement to my mailing list that I'm writing this new series right now, after promising them for a few years.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> Update: 41k written on book 1. I started on 19 Feb so that's not bad going.
> 
> I started the upgrade on book 1 of the first series.
> 
> ...


I might be wrong about this, but I thought that all pre-orders got charged at the lowest price, even if you make a price change. So, if you have the book for 99c at some point, that is going to be the price. I'm just going on hearsay but it might be worth checking out.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

kathrynoh said:


> I might be wrong about this, but I thought that all pre-orders got charged at the lowest price, even if you make a price change. So, if you have the book for 99c at some point, that is going to be the price. I'm just going on hearsay but it might be worth checking out.


Nononono, what I'm doing is a pre-order for full price, wait until it goes live, THEN make it 99c for one day and email the list about it, to goose the algorithms.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Patty Jansen said:


> Nononono, what I'm doing is a pre-order for full price, wait until it goes live, THEN make it 99c for one day and email the list about it, to goose the algorithms.


You might have to wait more than 24 hours after it goes live or the pre-orders will be refunded the difference. It might be 48 hours? I can't remember. I've gotten refunds this way before though when a book went live and the price dropped immediately.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Annie B said:


> You might have to wait more than 24 hours after it goes live or the pre-orders will be refunded the difference. It might be 48 hours? I can't remember. I've gotten refunds this way before though when a book went live and the price dropped immediately.


I always intended to wait at least a week.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Your alsoboughts will be pretty established by then, though hopefully a big push can change them to reflect things that are being published and selling well in the week you do it. The pre-order is going to dilute them anyway though, so I suppose waiting a whole week won't matter in the end.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Megan B said:


> That's an interesting idea. When I did my 4.99 preorder, I sold it on my Payhip store at 99 cents just for the first day and only told my newsletter subscribers. I wanted to be able to give them a deal and I knew Amazon would never pricematch it. But I really like the idea of doing a one day sale at the big retailers a week or so after, hopefully goose rankings a bit but not lose too much in the process. Hmm...


This is exactly the idea. In the past, I've seen a good response from a 99c release for the mailing list, but I also like the pre-order option, because pre-orders is a kind of set-and-forget thing that cements the sale for you, because if you make them wait three months, they might still wander away.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

About 60k into book 1. I'm seeing the shape of this thing now, although I'm not writing as fast as before, I'm doing a lot of editing as I go. I can have this done & ready to go to the editor within a couple of weeks.

I'm still thinking about the best strategy.

I've got a book on pre-order now, ready to go live on 24 May (different series).

I could NOT do a pre-order for book 1 of the new series, but simply upload it live in late June, AND upload a 3-month pre-order for book 2 at the same time. I should be able to have a fairly complete draft of book 2 finished by the end of June. Maybe I could do a 2-month pre-order.

I presume you can bring a live date forward without punishment?


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

I actually really like the covers you did! Wish I had your skill. Regarding pre-orders, I don't know if that's the best option or not for you. It would probably help you in iBooks if you were able to get a lot since they all count towards your release day rank, and if iBooks is a big seller for you that might be valuable. On the other hand if you've got a huge mailing list that you know will result in a rush of sales when you send out an email blast, then you may not want to do pre-order since it'll be better to do an email blast on release day. The nice thing about pre-orders is that I think they'll give you visibility on Amazon's HNR lists longer than if you don't do pre-order, but I don't know if that matters to you.


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> pre-orders is a kind of set-and-forget thing that cements the sale for you, because if you make them wait three months, they might still wander away.


This is the exact reason I use pre-orders.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

With the no-preorder first book and pre-order second book at the same time, I could potentially get the best of both worlds.

Maybe I could do a pre-order for book 1 only on non-Amazon platforms, because they still drop all the pre-orders in your ranking on the day it goes live.

My mailing list is 4100 at the moment but growing frightfully fast right now. I'm sure that if I email them and the book is 99c I could easily get 1-200 sales. I guess that's worth something. It could then also be worth something if I have book 2 already on preorder when book 1 is available.

Gah! Decisions!


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> With the no-preorder first book and pre-order second book at the same time, I could potentially get the best of both worlds.
> 
> Maybe I could do a pre-order for book 1 only on non-Amazon platforms, because they still drop all the pre-orders in your ranking on the day it goes live.
> 
> ...


In that case, I think you should leave off on pre-ordering for book 1 on Amazon, and then if book 1 is doing well and people are clamoring for a sequel you should definitely put book 2 up to capitalize on the potential gold rush there.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I think I'll do no pre-order book 1 and pre-order book 2 at the same time. I'll let the time in between book 1 and 2 depend on how far I am in the writing process. I've almost finished book 1, am aiming for a 24 June release date, and have started to think about booking some promo.

I will ask for people interested in ARCs, but sadly my experience with ARCs is rotten. It probably doesn't help that for the past two years I've only released subsequent volumes in series, and ARC readers might not have read those. I sent out 14 ARCs for my recent pre-order, but I have yet to receive a review. This is the story of my life. I don't know what else to do to get people to review. I've done Netgalley (bleh, people review on Netgalley and don't post to Amazon), LibraryThing (very spotty, readers are often fellow writers looking for return favours).

What promo sites take new releases?


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> I will ask for people interested in ARCs, but sadly my experience with ARCs is rotten. It probably doesn't help that for the past two years I've only released subsequent volumes in series, and ARC readers might not have read those. I sent out 14 ARCs for my recent pre-order, but I have yet to receive a review. This is the story of my life. I don't know what else to do to get people to review. I've done Netgalley (bleh, people review on Netgalley and don't post to Amazon), LibraryThing (very spotty, readers are often fellow writers looking for return favours).
> 
> What promo sites take new releases?


Have you seen Hungry Author's New Release Promo thread? They're very effective for new releases AND their package includes ARC reviews. They're increasing their rates starting April 1st so if you want to use them I'd pre-pay for a spot now.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Not sure if it was mentioned already, but someone made a good point over in my launch thread, with a pre-order, everything is in place to purchase promos. As someone without a mailing list, that might be enough to convince me.

CM


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> What promo sites take new releases?


PMed you!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

CM Raymond said:


> Not sure if it was mentioned already, but someone made a good point over in my launch thread, with a pre-order, everything is in place to purchase promos. As someone without a mailing list, that might be enough to convince me.
> 
> CM


Hmmm, yes, this is true.

OK, so, option 3: have a short (like, 1-month) pre-order in order to get an ASIN so that I can apply for promos, but don't tell anyone about it until the book is live.

Just listened to your podcast, btw.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Just listened to your podcast, btw.


THE Patty Jansen listened!

I can die now...

Hey, I meant to tell you this a while ago...

a late night, I was a few fingers into a glass of scotch, writing my Middle Grade fiction book (please don't look at it) and I couldn't come up with a name. Shifted to KBoards and you had several posts happening...

Perfect.

So, there is a Jansen in the book.

(And he's a nice guy.)


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Patty,

If I'm keeping score, here's the way I see it (from my launch thread):



> Pros:
> If we get the print edition up, our ARC team can post reviews and have them on the ebook on the day of release.
> Also boughts will populate.
> The page is set up and ready to go so that we can book promotions for the release date.
> ...


(And there I go, quoting myself.)


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

jazzywaltz said:


> Have you seen Hungry Author's New Release Promo thread? They're very effective for new releases AND their package includes ARC reviews. They're increasing their rates starting April 1st so if you want to use them I'd pre-pay for a spot now.


I saw that, thanks. I might consider them. I realise that this is my once-in-two-year opportunity to do a big launch, since most of what I've published in the last two years have been sequels, and it's really hard to do promo for those, apart from running some ads for book 1, and applying to Bookbub and failing to get in. Why-oh-why-oh-why do they only take two of my titles that they have featured before.

(if you're Bookbub, be warned, because I'm going to submit books you haven't featured before every Sunday morning until you're sooo fed up with me that you *have* to take them).


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update: I'm going to make 70k today.

I started off really strong, doing 3-4k per day but have dropped back to 1-2k because I've had to do other stuff and also because I'm running into a mess and need to sort out some plot bits before I progress.

I will need at least another 2-3 weeks before book 1 is done. I'm at the point where I need to decide where to break the book to go into book 2. 

I've decided I may  have time for some quick beta reads before handing it to the editor. Interested? It's epic, post-apocalyptic fantasy, quite dark. One of the characters is extremely crude so there is some foul language. Plenty of violence but little sex (yet).


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## GwynnEWhite (May 23, 2012)

I love your covers. The speak the genre and look really eye-catching.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> I presume you can bring a live date forward without punishment?


Yep, you can bring it forward as much as you like. I do it all the time.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

BLEEEAAARRGHHH! Blurbs!

It's HARD to write a blurb for a third of a concept. If I was writing a blurb for the trilogy, I'd give away a bit more of the concept, but then I'd give away too much of the first book. So for the first book, I ended up with this:

The entire world laid to waste. There are no second chances.

The ancient machine that produced icefire was destroyed twenty years ago, but the deadly magic is again on the increase. No one understands why or where it's coming from.

Massive changes in weather patterns plunge the northern half of the inhabited world in deep drought. People are once again fleeing, but nowhere is safe.

King Isandor sends people to investigate a place in the mountains, but two patrols both vanish. It appears that, after having suffered badly in wars, the neighbouring country Arania is on the offensive. Their culture is harsh and their barbarism knows no boundaries. 

Meanwhile two young meteorology students make a string of discoveries that will change the way the people understand the world. They're on the threshold of the age of enlightenment, but vital knowledge necessary to save their world may well get lost in the increasing threat of war.


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## Felix R. Savage (Mar 3, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> The entire world has been laid to waste. There are no second chances.
> 
> The ancient machine that produced icefire was destroyed twenty years ago, but the deadly magic is again on the increase. No one understands why or where it's coming from.


This opening bit is great.



> Massive changes in weather patterns plunge the northern half of the inhabited world in deep drought. People are once again fleeing, but nowhere is safe.


Still hooked.



> King Isandor sends people to investigate a place in the mountains, but two patrols both vanish.


"A place"? C'mon. What kind of place? Aaand I've now perked up thinking King Isandor is the MC ... but apparently not?



> It appears that, after having suffered badly in wars, the neighbouring country Arania is on the offensive. Their culture is harsh and their barbarism knows no boundaries.


Not really seeing how this ties in to the weather changes, unless Arania is blamed for the loss of the patrols, in which case say so.



> Meanwhile two young meteorology students make a string of discoveries that will change the way the people understand the world. They're on the threshold of the age of enlightenment, but vital knowledge necessary to save their world may well get lost in the increasing threat of war.


Are they the MCs then? Are they personally on the threshold of the age of enlightenment (makes me think of this http://allpoetry.com/Annus-Mirabilis ) or is their world?

It sounds like a gripping setup, but my interest waned proportionally to increasing confusion about who might be the MC and what the stakes are for them. I get that it's probably a multiple main character epic plot. Those are hell to write blurbs for. I have not yet done it successfully myself. But I think you need to give us a sense of the story and the stakes for at least one main character.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

It's epic fantasy. There *is* no main character. There are three threads with five characters who each get the POV.


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## Felix R. Savage (Mar 3, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> It's epic fantasy. There *is* no main character. There are three threads with five characters who each get the POV.


That's what I figured. And I know it's disgustingly difficult. When I was trying to do this, I looked at the blurbs for Game of Thrones and Sanderson's epic fantasy.

If there's no MC, you have to find the throughline (my editor calls it the overplot) and make that be the "story" of the blurb. So which is the throughline of *this book*? Is it the return of Icefire? That sounds more like the throughline of the whole trilogy. Is it the business with Arania? Or is it whatever the meteorology students are getting up to?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Felix R. Savage said:


> That's what I figured. And I know it's disgustingly difficult. When I was trying to do this, I looked at the blurbs for Game of Thrones and Sanderson's epic fantasy.
> 
> If there's no MC, you have to find the throughline (my editor calls it the overplot) and make that be the "story" of the blurb. So which is the throughline of *this book*? Is it the return of Icefire? That sounds more like the throughline of the whole trilogy. Is it the business with Arania? Or is it whatever the meteorology students are getting up to?


All three of those intermesh and turn out to be related, but it's not until the end of the trilogy that it becomes obvious. I was not joking that it's hard to write a blurb for one third of a story.


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## Kyra Gregory (Aug 9, 2013)

I adore those covers and think you should probably stick with them. $6,000 for new ones just seems crazy when you've got those gorgeous things to work with.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Bold thread rename!

I've almost completed book 1. It will go live on 24 June.

I have decided to have a 3-4 week "secret" preorder (meaning I won't announce or advertise it anywhere), so that I have links to submit to promo sites and that they might actually give me spots close after the book goes live. Also so that I can make a print version live so ARC readers can post reviews.

I've got one promo ready, plus my own promo. I have some ideas for further promo.

Book 2 will also go on pre-order when book 1 goes live.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

That's pretty much what I plan to do for my sci-fi series once I finish writing a bunch of sequels for other series. I've always wanted to do a three book launch with pre-order.


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## Lia Cooper (Jan 28, 2014)

Well Patty all I can say re: the covers is that I think the second set gives off all the right visual cues that it's related to the first series while also looking fresh and updated.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Yes, the updated covers are much better. $1000 is very expansive for a cover, have you tried Deranged Doctor Design? they are very affordable + you only pay if you're satisfied with the end product which is super cool.


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## K.J. Garnet (Mar 24, 2016)

Another vote for those covers. Good luck with the launch!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Stage 1 is complete:

Website re-hash, mostly behind the scenes (but oh boy it was a lot of work before I could do this). I'm on a new server, I've nuked my blog and put up a page with a slightly modified blurb and a publication date. See? Nothing said about a pre-order: http://pattyjansen.com/2016/03/28/sand-storm-book-1-of-the-moonfire-trilogy/

ETA: also uploaded the new cover and updated version of book 1. *drums fingers* Come on, Amazon, do you know that Kobo and Google Play had this up hours ago?


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> Bold thread rename!
> 
> I've almost completed book 1. It will go live on 24 June.
> 
> ...


I'm doing something similar, the difference is that part 1 or season 1 I intend to be free - haven't' told anyone (only one super engaged AR posted a review, I haven't emailed her with the link to the book which proves super fans will go the extra mile, LOl!) but Amazon is lagging with the price-matching. If by 30th they don't price-match I'll pull in Select and will haev a free 4 days promo. But once my book is free on Nook and Apple, they ought to price-match. it's very frustrating how Amazon wants all the indie books to be in Select.
The complete novel --seasons 1,2&3 will go live on 19th next month and will haev another pre-order with the antagonists' story. I'm very excited about those two books. I'm using your promo and E.B. Brown's. I guess that's the other promo you're gonna use, isn't it?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Antara Mann said:


> I'm doing something similar, the difference is that part 1 or season 1 I intend to be free - haven't' told anyone (only one super engaged AR posted a review, I haven't emailed her with the link to the book which proves super fans will go the extra mile, LOl!) but Amazon is lagging with the price-matching. If by 30th they don't price-match I'll pull in Select and will haev a free 4 days promo. But once my book is free on Nook and Apple, they ought to price-match. it's very frustrating how Amazon wants all the indie books to be in Select.
> The complete novel --seasons 1,2&3 will go live on 19th next month and will haev another pre-order with the antagonists' story. I'm very excited about those two books. I'm using your promo and E.B. Brown's. I guess that's the other promo you're gonna use, isn't it?


Nope. Well, I will use E.B. Brown's promo, but I'm going to throw some serious money at this promotion, seeing as the previous series is responsible for half my income, and I'll be targeting some bigger sites.

If Amazon wouldn't price-match, I'd 1. re-send the email to KDP, hoping you'd get a less snarky person. Give them links where the book is free, then if they still didn't price-match it, I'd 2. Put the MOBI book free on my website and tell people to go there, or use Smashwords to deliver the MOBI version. If you get a lot of downloads from Apple, let's see how quickly they catch on, then if they still wouldn't price-match it, I'd, 3. Simply pull the book from Amazon altogether. Maybe re-upload later. Seriously, I hate it how people let Amazon dictate their publishing decisions.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update:

I finished book 1. 

Doing a re-read before it's going to an editor who is going to read it for plot, character and tension. I haven't done this before--always having relied on volunteer readers--but I feel like I can't demand any kind of turnaround from people I'm not paying. Also, I've found beta readers a bit of a hit an miss. Some are really good, but others don't give the type of comments I want, so I figure it's better to pay someone I can tell what I'm after, who has the training and experience to deliver it, and do so on time. Well, that's the plan. We'll see how it goes.

It's the first time I've used a developmental editor, but I figured I'd invest the money I saved by doing my own covers.


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## Samuel E. Green (Nov 26, 2015)

Just wanted to chime-in and say that I think your covers are superb! They're genre-specific and would definitely make me want to pick them up.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update:

Finished book 1, about a quarter into book 2.

I sent book 1 to Mary Novak, a developmental editor who has been recommended by several people.

My brief for her was to look at character, pacing and what I call "sequelitis", issues to do with the fact that this is a follow-up series. I want the book not to read like a sequel to someone new to the world.

I had a call with her this morning. She made some excellent suggestions and I will be swapping some chapters around and adding some stuff to one of the POV threads which was a bit lame.

In the end, I am quite convinced that there isn't enough butt in the world that this book is going to kick. If you're a reader of fantasy at least.

Next, I'll make these changes, talk to her again and send it to my line editor. This is the first time I've used two people, and I like it. I'll be doing more of this for future new series.

First: Going to Supanova Melbourne on Wednesday!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update: still working on edits for book 1. 25k done on book 2. I've slowed down because I've been away, and because of all these hundreds of people entering their books in this dratted cross-promo 

Also because I'll definitely make deadline and I'm not so worried about it anymore.

I'll have another talk with Mary about making the ending as cliffhangery as possible.

I've hauled the current draft (pretty close to what will be released, 88k at the moment) through Vellum and am uploading pre-orders on Apple, Kobo and GP. Shoot! Forgot to make a file for B&N. Better do that, too.

ENT has agreed to take the book on 25 June.

I'm still torn on whether I'll do a pre-order on Amazon. Probably not, but I'll probably very quietly upload it a few days prior to 24 June, so that ARC readers can post their reviews.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm launching my UF wide on June 29th, so we'll be around the same week. Different genres, but it'll be interesting to see how the launches perform wide as opposed to all the recent KU launches.

Good luck, Patty!


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Whenever I see those covers, I think PATTY JANSEN. I've seen them a lot. The branding is awesome.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

D-C said:


> I'm launching my UF wide on June 29th, so we'll be around the same week. Different genres, but it'll be interesting to see how the launches perform wide as opposed to all the recent KU launches.
> 
> Good luck, Patty!


Is this a new book or one that's in KU at the moment?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Whenever I see those covers, I think PATTY JANSEN. I've seen them a lot. The branding is awesome.


I'm two-thirds through the update of the first trilogy. You'll see that book 1 and 2 have the new covers already. Book 3 is coming up.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> Is this a new book or one that's in KU at the moment?


New book. Chaos Rises.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I've put it up for pre-order on Amazon and Apple, hoping to slip it under the radar of my Amazon readers, but they've found it anyway. I'll drop the price to 99c release week. The higher price now will deter all but the most devoted fan (who'll still get the 99c price tag on release). I have Barbarian lined up. ENT declined me on the reasoning they don't book more than 30 days ahead *ahem* So I've applied again, citing you  (btw, this isn't all I'm doing, but I don't want to hijack your thread  ).


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

D-C said:


> I've put it up for pre-order on Amazon and Apple, hoping to slip it under the radar of my Amazon readers, but they've found it anyway. I'll drop the price to 99c release week. The higher price now will deter all but the most devoted fan (who'll still get the 99c price tag on release). I have Barbarian lined up. ENT declined me on the reasoning they don't book more than 30 days ahead *ahem* So I've applied again, citing you


I'm looking at it now on Amazon... Audio coming?


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I'm looking at it now on Amazon... Audio coming?


Yes, I have Hollie signed up.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

D-C said:


> Yes, I have Hollie signed up.


Cool. I'll wait for that then.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

D-C said:


> I've put it up for pre-order on Amazon and Apple, hoping to slip it under the radar of my Amazon readers, but they've found it anyway. I'll drop the price to 99c release week. The higher price now will deter all but the most devoted fan (who'll still get the 99c price tag on release). I have Barbarian lined up. ENT declined me on the reasoning they don't book more than 30 days ahead *ahem* So I've applied again, citing you  (btw, this isn't all I'm doing, but I don't want to hijack your thread  ).


I got into ENT based on my history with them. I've used ENT a lot, have run banner ads with them in the past.


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## MKK (Jun 9, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> I'm still torn on whether I'll do a pre-order on Amazon. Probably not, but I'll probably very quietly upload it a few days prior to 24 June, so that ARC readers can post their reviews.


Is it because of the dangers of a missed date or loss of 'surprise' for the majority of your readers?


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

D-C said:


> I've put it up for pre-order on Amazon and Apple, hoping to slip it under the radar of my Amazon readers, but they've found it anyway.


I'm pretty sure Amazon emails people who've bought your previous series to tell them about the preorder, so that could be how they found it.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

MKK said:


> Is it because of the dangers of a missed date or loss of 'surprise' for the majority of your readers?


I imagine it's because any pre-orders on Amazon boost ranking now, which is damn-near useless unless you can sustain hundreds of pre-orders a day for week after week. Better to have the visibility boost all at the same time. (On Amazon, anyway. This doesn't apply to iBooks and elsewhere, they dump sales/rankings boosts on release day, where it's most valuable).


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Rinelle Grey said:


> I'm pretty sure Amazon emails people who've bought your previous series to tell them about the preorder, so that could be how they found it.


Yes, they do, and yes they did.  It's okay, a handful here and there I can live with. As Patty says, having the sales link up early does come in handy for promo sites etc.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> I got into ENT based on my history with them. I've used ENT a lot, have run banner ads with them in the past.


Ah-ha! That explains it.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

D-C said:


> Yes, they do, and yes they did.  It's okay, a handful here and there I can live with. As Patty says, having the sales link up early does come in handy for promo sites etc.


And for getting the audio done.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> And for getting the audio done.


Ah yes, that was a bonus, actually. I didn't plan it that way, but had an 'oh yeah, I can claim it on ACX now' moment. Doh.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I've still got to do audio. I don't have any of my books in audio and it's becoming this huge friggin ELEPHANT that's somewhere in this room. I just don't have the time or inclination to dedicate any time to it. I never listen to audiobooks and couldn't give two stuffs about them, but I know a lot of people do. Add to that that I have to give another third party another 10% off RRP to even be able to list them and my motivation sinks further south than Antarctica.

I'm going to have to employ a VA to do this, because I don't want to do it.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

D-C said:


> Ah yes, that was a bonus, actually. I didn't plan it that way, but had an 'oh yeah, I can claim it on ACX now' moment. Doh.


This is so important to my income, that I plan to do preorders wide for the first time, but paperback preorder only on Amazon. I'll claim the PB, get the audio done, then arrange the release of the kindle version the same day as the audio.


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## Jane Killick (Aug 29, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> but paperback preorder only on Amazon.


I thought you couldn't do that ... ?


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> I've still got to do audio. I don't have any of my books in audio and it's becoming this huge friggin ELEPHANT that's somewhere in this room. I just don't have the time or inclination to dedicate any time to it. I never listen to audiobooks and couldn't give two stuffs about them, but I know a lot of people do. Add to that that I have to give another third party another 10% off RRP to even be able to list them and my motivation sinks further south than Antarctica.
> 
> I'm going to have to employ a VA to do this, because I don't want to do it.


I feel the exact same way. Granted, I'm not selling nearly as much as you are, but I plan to eventually.

So I have wondered for a long time at what point I should consider doing it, and how much time I would have to spend listening to them to make sure they were done right . . . I don't like audiobooks, so that would be a boring and annoying chore for me. One of those "I'd rather be writing, and I think that's more valuable anyway" things.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

UnicornEmily said:


> I feel the exact same way. Granted, I'm not selling nearly as much as you are, but I plan to eventually.
> 
> So I have wondered for a long time at what point I should consider doing it, and how much time I would have to spend listening to them to make sure they were done right . . . I don't like audiobooks, so that would be a boring and annoying chore for me. One of those "I'd rather be writing, and I think that's more valuable anyway" things.


I'll wait until I'm approached by a company wanting to do it for me. This means *they* will see value in doing it at the level I'm selling. Then I'll hire someone to do it for me direct for a one-off cost without giving anyone a cut of my sales.

I get asked about audio often enough that I know I really should do it.

I just have no interest in audiobooks whatsoever.

Anyone recommend a VA? PM me.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update: launch set for 24 June.

I'm starting to book promos. So far, I've got:

25 June ENT
26 June nothing. I hate promo on weekends
27 June Hungry Author new release service
28 June
29 June mailing list (4500 people, hopefully a bit more by then)
30 June
1 July
2 July SFF cross promo
3 July SFF cross promo
4 July probably stay away from this day, or might book something non-US-y, like Ebooksoda or Booktastik
5 July
6 July
7 July move up to $2.99?

There are lots of empty dates. I'm planning some awesome stuff with my SFF cross-promo author peeps that they will hear about soon.

I'll do my best to poke Bookbub to see if they will take the Icefire Trilogy omnibus for 99c, but they surprised me by taking Ambassador for next week, and I hope I'll still have a chance for the trilogy, otherwise it will have to be later in the year. I'm yet to do a 99c Bookbub!


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## crusoe (May 6, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> I'm yet to do a 99c Bookbub!


I hope you'll let us know how that goes! That's what I'm aiming for, too, but later in the year when my ducks are lined up in a row (since I've heard the 1st Bookbub is the most potent, anyway)

Thanks for sharing your schedule like this, Patty. Wishing you a *blockbuster* release!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Got the go-ahead from Book Barbarian. Booked for the 28th.

Bookbub will probably have to wait a bit. I would like to do one when I have book 1 and 2 out and book 3 on pre-order. But I can try. I've found the perceived wisdom that the first Bookbub on a title is the most successful to be emphatically NOT true. It depends on a lot of things: your placing, what else is on that particular day and other stuff you can't control.

I've found preorders good for retaining series readers, especially for later volumes where you can't do as much promo. I have Blue Diamond Sky on preorder (to release on the 24th this month) and I already have more preorders for that than I would expect to have sales in the first month.

ETA sent out an email to my list last night asking for ARC readers. I don't "do" the team thing, but build a new ARC team segment for each release, because people have more/less time as time progresses. Also because I write in two genres.

Got the go-ahead from my developmental editor, so I need to do a little clean-up this weekend and send the book to the line editor. Woo-hoo!


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## crusoe (May 6, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Got the go-ahead from Book Barbarian. Booked for the 28th.
> 
> Bookbub will probably have to wait a bit. I would like to do one when I have book 1 and 2 out and book 3 on pre-order. But I can try. I've found the perceived wisdom that the first Bookbub on a title is the most successful to be emphatically NOT true. It depends on a lot of things: your placing, what else is on that particular day and other stuff you can't control.


Thanks for this perspective, Patty. I do find it fascinating how little we authors can agree on when it comes to promotion. It really depends! Anyway, thanks for responding. It helps


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update:

Ambassador book 5 went live today, so I just put the book up for pre-order on Amazon, mainly so that I have an ASIN and link to enter into promotion fields.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Pre-orders are live on most sites except Smashwords. I'm waiting for my formatter to complete the final version. He also gives me a Smashwords file that I can drop into InDesign and make a print book. That will probably happen next week. I'll make that live so that when I send out the ARCs, people can post their reviews so that hopefully the books won't be entirely review-less when it goes live.

I've also booked FKBT.

I'm dropping some major dosh on this promo, but I've decided I'm going to start something new every year and repeat (and hopefully fine-tune) this exercise.

Book 2 is at 73k, but I've made a page for it: http://pattyjansen.com/2016/05/28/sea-sky-moonfire-trilogy-book-2/

Publication date is a bit tentative. I'm not sure whether to put a 2 month or 3 month preorder on it. I'll decide when book 1 goes live.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm barrelling ahead with a three-pronged Break-the-Internet launch strategy:

1st section: Paid ads (updated)

24 June Bargain Booksy, mailing to section of mailing list, start of Facebook ads
25 June ENT, FKBT, Facebook ads
26 June Book Gorilla on a different book in my list, Facebook ads
27 June Hungry Author new release service, Facebook ads
28 June Book Barbarian, Facebook ads
29 June mailing list section, Facebook ads
30 June Freebooksy on free book 1 in related series, Facebook ads
1 July Facebook ads (parts 2 and 3 of the launch kick in)
2 July SFF cross promo, Facebook ads
3 July SFF cross promo, Facebook ads
4 July probably stay away from this day, or might book something non-US-y, like Ebooksoda or Booktastik (still haven't done this), Facebook ads
5 July
6 July
7 July move up to $2.99?

Parts 2 and 3 of the launch strategy are designed for maximum exposure, and especially part 3 is intended to break the internet. Next week, the authors in the SFF promo group will get an email that uncovers part 2. For part 3... shhh. It's still a secret. I'll update.


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## Matthew Eliot (May 4, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> I'm barrelling ahead with a three-pronged Break-the-Internet launch strategy:
> 
> 1st section: Paid ads (updated)
> 
> ...


Awesome. Best of luck, Patty! (Although you probably won't need it.)


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## crusoe (May 6, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> I'm barrelling ahead with a three-pronged Break-the-Internet launch strategy:
> 
> 1st section: Paid ads (updated)
> 
> ...


I want to thank you so much for sharing your plan. It helps me see which sites are worth it, and I find it inspirational, too. Thanks again, Patty, for all that you do.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

crusoe said:


> I want to thank you so much for sharing you plan. It helps me see which sites are worth it, and I find it inspirational, too. Thanks again, Patty, for all that you do.


I have a giant spreadsheet set up in Numbers that will tell me which sites were worth it. I have advertised at most of these sites before, but the funny thing is the better you sell pre-promo, and the more books you have, the more these promotions help.

I have asked myself many times over the past month why I chose to write this series, but then again I didn't know that sales on the Ambassador series were going to blow out because of Bookbub, I do have the next book in that series slated in, and the Icefire series has been my best-selling series to date, and I have promised people a second trilogy for years. I've made it so that the new series is an entry point. So I hope it will all be OK.

*fingers crossed*

It's kinda nerve-wracking.


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## Abderian (Apr 5, 2012)

Best of luck, Patty.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

crusoe said:


> I want to thank you so much for sharing you plan. It helps me see which sites are worth it, and I find it inspirational, too. Thanks again, Patty, for all that you do.


Same here. I totally appreciate your starting this thread!


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## crusoe (May 6, 2015)

Just did a bit of research on FKBT. Very interesting. Their Alexa web ranking is almost exactly the same as BookGorilla (300K Global, and 70K for USA), but FKBT is a flat rate of $30 while BG is a bit more.

Of course, I don't know how big their lists are, but it's an interesting datapoint. FKBT appears to be offering an excellent deal, and I look forward to working with them in July.

Incidentally Patty, I'd love to hear what gave you the single most bang for your buck. (Besides Bookbub of course, hah.) I have a Numbers spreadsheet too, but I haven't bought as many ads thus far. July will change that.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

crusoe said:


> Just did a bit of research on FKBT. Very interesting. Their Alexa web ranking is almost exactly the same as BookGorilla (300K Global, and 70K for USA), but FKBT is a flat rate of $30 while BG is a bit more.
> 
> Of course, I don't know how big their lists are, but it's an interesting datapoint. FKBT appears to be offering an excellent deal, and I look forward to working with them in July.
> 
> Incidentally Patty, I'd love to hear what gave you the single most bang for your buck. (Besides Bookbub of course, hah.) I have a Numbers spreadsheet too, but I haven't bought as many ads thus far. July will change that.


It's going to be really hard to separate out the influence from individual sites. I bought FKBT primarily because of the new book service and also because they'd run my books for free (without me submitting). I figured I better give something back. Er. That reminds me of something else I intended to do.

I haven't actually applied to Bookbub for quite a while. I'd like to run the box set of the previous series for 99c, but I don't want to do that until I have book 3 of this series on pre-order at the very latest. I could apply for a Bookbub for this book but... seriously, they're not going to take it with zero reviews. I might try when book 2 goes live.

Part 2 of the launch promo is starting to roll out, although some of it was stymied by my own failed attempt at cleverness (hint to self: tick-boxes are there for actually, y'know, ticking)


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Launch day -2

I did the marketing SFF podcast. I uploaded the pre-order for book 2, which I've set at 20 September. I might not do a preorder for book 3, but instead angle for mailing list signups.

Three people have reviewed book 1 (two have also ordered the print book).

Despite my secret preorder, I have 50 preorders for book 1.

I have not written a single word today.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Ambitious. I love it. Good luck.


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## crusoe (May 6, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Despite my secret preorder, I have 50 preorders for book 1.


Jinkies! I thought my pre-order numbers were pretty good, but damn, to get those numbers without doing advertising. Good job.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

crusoe said:


> Jinkies! I thought my pre-order numbers were pretty good, but damn, to get those numbers without doing advertising. Good job.


No, not good. I've heard of people having thousands. I had a few hundred on the last book that went live, but that was after a Bookbub on book 1 of the series.

Anyway, the first books have gone out, because it's been the 24th in Australia for nine hours.


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## KingSweden (Dec 16, 2013)

Your covers are awesome, I would pay for covers you made. I don't see why you want to change them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Happy Launch Day....almost. It's not the 24th on this side of the pond yet. I can't wait to watch you rock some bestseller lists and break the internet.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Lisa_Blackwood said:


> Happy Launch Day....almost. It's not the 24th on this side of the pond yet. I can't wait to watch you rock some bestseller lists and break the internet.


I hope so!

I'm nervous. I'm meant to be writing, but I can already see that very little writing will be done this weekend.

I started today (US today that is, because the book is already live in Australia) with a Robin Reads ad on a different book and that's doing very well. 800+ downloads so far and a handful of sales on subsequent volumes.

Here is another argument for pre-orders: at the moment, both Apple and Kobo are dragging their feet at putting up the preorder for book 2. Kobo acknowledges having some sort of tech issue. Apple is typically silent about it, but I uploaded book 2 preorder on Monday. For once, B&N is NOT the last venue to make it live. Grrr. At least, it's not my main funnel book, and links in the back will be going back to my website but still GRRR.

Got two more reviews from the ARCs overnight. It's looking good.

Now I need to make and upload some Facebook ads.


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## nigel p bird (Feb 4, 2011)

Good luck.


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## JaclynDolamore (Nov 5, 2015)

Best of luck! I can't focus during Book Happenings either... the nerves!!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

The preorders went out to buyers. Have not sold a single copy since. Everyone is watching the news.

I've spent hundreds on this, and yeah, it's probably a waste. I've decided to can the Facebook ads. I'm not going to throw good money after bad. I'll see what happens in a few days' time. Unfortunately, my most expensive ads were scheduled in the first few days.

*cries*
*gets bottle of wine*


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## spellscribe (Nov 5, 2015)

Oh Noooo Patty!!! That's horrible. Still, you'll bounce back. It might be a slower start and a slightly muffled bang, but it'll bang! Just give it a day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cxxxxxxx (May 30, 2015)

I dunno. Rather than contemplate the implications of Brexiting, people might turn to escapist literature instead! I know I would. Crossing my fingers this works out for you anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

Christina Ochs said:


> I dunno. Rather than contemplate the implications of Brexiting, people might turn to escapist literature instead! I know I would. Crossing my fingers this works out for you anyway.


I think you're right. Maybe apocalyptic is the new hot genre to get into now! 

<<< Edit: I think I may have to change this now...


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## shunterni (May 2, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> The preorders went out to buyers. Have not sold a single copy since. Everyone is watching the news.
> 
> I've spent hundreds on this, and yeah, it's probably a waste. I've decided to can the Facebook ads. I'm not going to throw good money after bad. I'll see what happens in a few days' time. Unfortunately, my most expensive ads were scheduled in the first few days.
> 
> ...


Oh no, that's terrible news. My big adds start today too D: Maybe people will want to read something dystopian to take comfort in? That's all I can hope. Either way, I'll split my bottle of wine with you.


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## crusoe (May 6, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> The preorders went out to buyers. Have not sold a single copy since. Everyone is watching the news.
> 
> I've spent hundreds on this, and yeah, it's probably a waste. I've decided to can the Facebook ads. I'm not going to throw good money after bad. I'll see what happens in a few days' time. Unfortunately, my most expensive ads were scheduled in the first few days.
> 
> ...


Oh, Patty, I'm so sorry. I guess that's the risk of advertising.

You deserve the wine. Christina might have a point though.

Anyway, weather the storm, and you'll eventually make it to a bright morning. Endurance. Endurance!


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## Abderian (Apr 5, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> The preorders went out to buyers. Have not sold a single copy since. Everyone is watching the news.
> 
> I've spent hundreds on this, and yeah, it's probably a waste. I've decided to can the Facebook ads. I'm not going to throw good money after bad. I'll see what happens in a few days' time. Unfortunately, my most expensive ads were scheduled in the first few days.
> 
> ...


Ugh, so sorry, Patty. That's terrible bad luck.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> Everyone is watching the news.


Which will last for about 3 days and then the rest of the world will shrug and go back to their regular scheduled programming (or reading one hopes.) Readers are going to read. And most of your ads aren't until next week, right?


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Lisa_Blackwood said:


> Which will last for about 3 days and then the rest of the world will shrug and go back to their regular scheduled programming (or reading one hopes.) Readers are going to read. And most of your ads aren't until next week, right?


I agree, but I think they will go back even sooner. I don't think thatthe UK EU exit will make a difference in book sales generally speaking. The downloads of my perma-free in the UK tripled in the last couple of hours, going from 15 to 44 now. So it seems to me people all of a sudden decided they want to read books. In other words, I'm seeing the opposite happening. I'm more worried about the pound crashing, as 80 % of my sales are in the UK.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> The preorders went out to buyers. Have not sold a single copy since. Everyone is watching the news.
> 
> I've spent hundreds on this, and yeah, it's probably a waste. I've decided to can the Facebook ads. I'm not going to throw good money after bad. I'll see what happens in a few days' time. Unfortunately, my most expensive ads were scheduled in the first few days.
> 
> ...


I bought a copy!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks all for your support.

Bargain Booksy went out today. I think sales are still being updated (I hope). I'll update a bit later. All sales are in the US. The UK is pretty much a wasteland at the moment. I always sell well in the UK. Germany and France are a wastelend, too. I usually sell a few there, too. B&N hasn't updated yet (neither has Google Play or Apple), but I sold a handful of copies on Kobo.

I think I'll just be over there in the corner doing promo stuff to see if we can salvage the latter half of the promo.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I'm sorry, Patty! I really hope it picks up for you. I know how much effort you've put into this release!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Day 1 update.

Advertiser: Bargain Booksy

Sales: 
Amazon: 29
Kobo: 4

B&N and Apple haven't reported yet. GP is also 1-2 days behind.
The Amazon sales weren't too bad, especially considering there was not a *single* sale from the UK, Germany or France, where I would normally expect to sell.

I did start a small Facebook ad, but only for the US.


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## Abderian (Apr 5, 2012)

My Kindle account is with Amazon UK and I bought a copy, so that's odd if you had no sales reported.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Abderian said:


> My Kindle account is with Amazon UK and I bought a copy, so that's odd if you had no sales reported.


Oh noes, it's the evil banking collapse of D00m!

Er. I've found that sales from non-US, non-UK countries can take a few days to show up.

Thanks, by the way!


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## angela65 (Oct 8, 2014)

So sorry to hear this, Patty.   Hopefully, your sales will be more optimistic soon.


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

So sorry to hear your launch went badly, Patty. I do hope that it picks up soon... but in the meantime, have you considered taking another look at your blurb? I'm not an expert on blurbs or anything, but I had a look at yours and it's pretty dry. Others might disagree but I just don't get excited or get much of a sense in the way of conflict or tension when I'm reading it. You may want to look into making it punchier.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

jazzywaltz said:


> So sorry to hear your launch went badly, Patty. I do hope that it picks up soon... but in the meantime, have you considered taking another look at your blurb? I'm not an expert on blurbs or anything, but I had a look at yours and it's pretty dry. Others might disagree but I just don't get excited or get much of a sense in the way of conflict or tension when I'm reading it. You may want to look into making it punchier.


Thanks but I didn't hear the part where I publicly asked for crits. Plenty of people have said they thought it sounded interesting, and when you ask for commentary, people will always say *something*. I asked people behind the scenes who knew the story.


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## jazzywaltz (Jan 3, 2016)

Patty Jansen said:


> Thanks but I didn't hear the part where I publicly asked for crits. Plenty of people have said they thought it sounded interesting, and when you ask for commentary, people will always say *something*. I asked people behind the scenes who knew the story.


I didn't give you a critique (which would have been much longer), just started my opinion, which last time I checked I didn't need permission to do. But since you clearly are in no need of my opinion or assistance, I'll go back to work.


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

jazzywaltz said:


> I didn't give you a critique (which would have been much longer), just started my opinion, which last time I checked I didn't need permission to do. But since you clearly are in no need of my opinion or assistance, I'll go back to work.


You don't need permission, but it's a bit of a custom on Kboards not to offer opinions on cover/blurb/etc unless the OP specifically asks for it. Besides, judging by the book's present ranking, they seem to be working fine after that initial hiccup.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Sorry if I came across snarky, but I *did* ask for feedback behind the scenes, of readers of the actual genre, which is epic fantasy. I also looked a lot of Epic fantasy blurbs, and many are world-based, because readers like the sweeping worldview. Funny thing is I listened to Bryan Cohen talking about effective blurbs on a podcast (can't remember which one it was) and he cited the blurb for Eye of the World as good and effective for the genre. It's entirely world-based, with not a single character mentioned.


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

Your covers are great, Patty Jansen. They are branded as your covers. 

A $1000. cover designer could create something traffic stopping. But, it would have a little of their signature to the cover. What you have is a professional cover that has your signature look to it. I feel that works. 

Wishing you ongoing success.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Update day 2: 66 sales. I also have the first pre-order for book 2. Someone reads really fast.

The UK is still dragging its feet, but will probably catch up later, but maybe not until the SF/F promo next weekend.

The launch relied quite heavily on social media. If the whole of social media is going goo-goo over some issue, that's a bad time to be launching a book. There has been some improvement today, since both promos I used are heavily US-centred.

Anyway, the book is inside the top 5000 (my lofty goal--ahem. It's epic fantasy, OK?).


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## Tuttle (Jun 10, 2010)

Patty Jansen said:


> Update day 2: 66 sales. I also have the first pre-order for book 2. Someone reads really fast.


Hi!

I spent all weekend reading books by kboards authors because that's how I defined self-care for a self-care weekend . Pre-ordering in order to not have to think about when releases happens is nice! Books just show up, and I don't have to pay attention to it. I could get a better price, during release, or I could not have to worry if release is during a busy work week and if I'd forget about it.


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## Tuttle (Jun 10, 2010)

Multiple of the people I'm on mailing lists of do a one day sale after release, so I do pay more for those, but worth it for convenience. Many I end up paying lowest price because of the price decrease. Either way, I love pre-orders as a reader.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Glad to see you're starting to get sales and a nice rank. Good luck with the launch. I'm highlight you in my newsletter later this week (Friday). I was going to do it Monday, but that one is an Urban Fantasy group, so I changed it to Friday.


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## Jack Krenneck (Feb 9, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> Sorry if I came across snarky, but I *did* ask for feedback behind the scenes, of readers of the actual genre, which is epic fantasy. I also looked a lot of Epic fantasy blurbs, and many are world-based, because readers like the sweeping worldview. Funny thing is I listened to Bryan Cohen talking about effective blurbs on a podcast (can't remember which one it was) and he cited the blurb for Eye of the World as good and effective for the genre. It's entirely world-based, with not a single character mentioned.


I'm pretty familiar with epic fantasy (as a reader and writer), and it's certainly true that some blurbs take the "worldview" approach.

Looking at the _Eye of the World_ example, a few things jump right out at me. I read that book when it first came out, and the back cover (I just checked my bookshelf) has the same worldview quote, although a slightly fuller version of it. _The Belgariad _(David Eddings) from about the same period had a similar worldview beginning before drilling down to the main character.

In each case, I bought those books because of the worldview perspective. But the reason I did that was because they hit, pitch perfect, the notes of classic epic fantasy, which was exactly what I wanted to read. It was a green light to me, and I drove right on ahead. I did that because I knew precisely what I was going to get, and I didn't need to be hooked by character or conflict or tension. The _genre _was the hook.

But your book doesn't come across as classic epic fantasy, and the blurb isn't hitting those same notes. You're tapping in to a slightly different audience. Are you sure they'll respond to the worldview approach?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> But your book doesn't come across as classic epic fantasy, and the blurb isn't hitting those same notes. You're tapping in to a slightly different audience. Are you sure they'll respond to the worldview approach?


Quoting here because I'm going to let this thread die and I'll report to my private groups. At this point in time, I've sold well over 200 copies of the book and some ads are still going off in the next few days.

I'm not sure of anything, neither do I believe anyone else is. At this point in time, however, I'm not looking to change the blurb. I may well want to look at it at some point in the future. However, this is what I've decided to go with, and I'm really not asking for people to put magnifying glasses onto it *at this point in time*. I've spent many, many years in writer's groups and know when you ask for feedback, people will always say *something*. I will ask for it when I'm looking to make changes.

I'll go and complete book 2.


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