# BookBub Blamed for Limiting New Writers



## LynPerry (Apr 8, 2013)

In the comment section of Joe Konrath's recent post, "Quitter, Quitter," author RJ Jagger explains that he's given up on writing and will be taking down his books due to lack of sales. He blames BookBub, among other reasons:

_Why did sales fall off? I attribute a lot of it to Bookbub, which has wedged its way between authors and readers and now sells the top 100 free spots. Those spots used to go to authors who earned the right to be there, not bought it._

According to his website and Amazon page (or her site/page, RJ Jagger is a pen name for a Denver trial attorney), Jagger has published over 20 thrillers since 2006. In a previous blog post by Konrath, Jagger (or someone using that name) commented that his earnings peaked in 2011 at $142k, but have since plummeted.

Two questions. 1) With that kind of success, would you keep striking the hammer if the sales numbers dramatically changed, or would you give up? And 2) Is BookBub a culprit in this?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Part of his problem may be he did too many free promos with different books.  I looked and I have picked up 9 of his free.    But no I don't think it would be an advertiser's fault.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I suppose it depends on how much effect big discounts and freebies have on eventual sales. That can change at any time.

True, last time I ran a Bookbub promo, I got 7400 downloads over two days. 
Right now I started a freebie run today without Bookbub and so far I'm at 798. That's after knocking on a LOT of doors to get listed _anywhere_ I could AND paying Bookblast.
I'm currently #8 in free Science Fiction. That puts me above Hugh Howey. Does it stay there? Hell no. Hugh does and that's nothing to do with Bookbub.

It's what happens after those sales that matters. Bookbub can only provide spikes. After that the book must stand on its own.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Bookbub won't take my non-free ad, so yes, it's all their fault.  

Amazon probably has a BookBub tweak in their algorithm already. That was mentioned as a reason the staying power of a BookBub doesn't last as long as it use to. Amazon turning against free promos probably has more to do with any big changes than anything external.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I think if I had to go back to work for a significant period of time, it would be really tough for me to take. I'd feel like a failure, and it would be hard to pick myself back up. I think I would, though. I'm kind of insanely stubborn about this writing thing. It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do. The minute I knew the alphabet, I started writing stories. I don't think I'd quite know who I was if I wasn't writing. But a big, big plummet like that? Yeah, that would probably put me in a deep, dark depression for a while.


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## wilsonharp (Jun 5, 2012)

Many indie writers shout from the remnants of the shattered gates, "The Gatekeepers are Gone!", with a giddy sense of abandon.

But many, many readers desperately want gatekeepers. They don't want to slog through the slush pile to find quality writing. They don't want the thrill of excitement of discovering an unknown writer. They want someone they trust to say 'these books are good'.

Bookbub and other e-mail services are stepping in and becoming the new gatekeepers for those readers.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I think I'd make sure I saved enough of that 142k to work through any lean years and keep writing. It's called being a freelancer. There are ups and downs all the time. I certainly wouldn't unpublish. That's like deciding since the price of beef has gone down this season, you might as well shoot all your cows and bury them in lye and go work at Walmart. Not exactly a sound business decision, in my opinion.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

wilsonharp said:


> But many, many readers desperately want gatekeepers. They don't want to slog through the slush pile to find quality writing.


So true. Earlier today I showed my mother (age 74) how to use her new Kindle. 
She got a bit flustered with the Amazon web site, especially since it kept telling her to go buy things at .ca (no "Look Inside" there, which I didn't know)
In the end, I simply emailed her a list of those "gatekeeper" web sites that she could use to find highly rated books. In the end, it will save her a lot of time and frustration.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Quiss said:


> I suppose it depends on how much effect big discounts and freebies have on eventual sales. That can change at any time.
> 
> True, last time I ran a Bookbub promo, I got 7400 downloads over two days.
> Right now I started a freebie run today without Bookbub and so far I'm at 798. That's after knocking on a LOT of doors to get listed _anywhere_ I could AND paying Bookblast.
> ...


You should poke that Hugh guy in the nose. Just kidding. This author reminds me of the email I got once. The reader asked when the rest of my books would be free.

What?

Well, if authors are making each of their books free at one time or another, then I can see how readers would expect it.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I wish there were 1,000 more services just like Bookbub so that we could all get sales. If you are a venture capitalist reading this, then hear, hear. Make a bunch of email lists like Bookbub has. Advertise them to READERS. We especially need a Bookbub equivalent in the UK.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Doomed Muse said:


> I think I'd make sure I saved enough of that 142k to work through any lean years and keep writing. It's called being a freelancer. There are ups and downs all the time. I certainly wouldn't unpublish. That's like deciding since the price of beef has gone down this season, you might as well shoot all your cows and bury them in lye and go work at Walmart. Not exactly a sound business decision, in my opinion.


^^ This


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Looking at his latest release, it appears he has not cultivated an email list, at the very least to help is launches. It's a shame, but maybe writing isn't for him.


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## @Suzanna (Mar 14, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Part of his problem may be he did too many free promos with different books. I looked and I have picked up 9 of his free. But no I don't think it would be an advertiser's fault.


Don't underestimate the potential downfall of doing too many freebie giveaways with different titles. There are authors whose books I'll probably never purchase, even though I read their books, because they're constantly putting different books up as freebies. After a while, your readers will notice and they'll stop buying your books, choosing to wait, instead, for your next freebie giveaway.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Alan Petersen said:


> Bookbub won't take my non-free ad, so yes, it's all their fault.
> 
> Amazon probably has a BookBub tweak in their algorithm already. That was mentioned as a reason the staying power of a BookBub doesn't last as long as it use to. Amazon turning against free promos probably has more to do with any big changes than anything external.


Yep. Blaming BookBub is just utterly incorrect. 2013 is radically different from 2012 or 2011 or 2010. Unless you create a direct line between you and your readers, you can't expect past success to continue to any degree.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

If he's been publishing since 2011, and has netted upwards of $140k, then what's happening to his books, like what he's doing to his career by "bowing out" now (very publicly a cynic might say), is no ones fault but his own.

This man has made $140k in roughly +/- three years.  THREE YEARS.  That's more money than people working at Target or McDonalds or a thousand other places could net, money many writers can only dream about when they're looking at their $20.00 checks.  But the bigger issue is WHERE ARE HIS READERS?  To turn that kind of profit, you have to have some sort of a fan base.  So, where did they go?  With a following large enough to churn out that kind of cash in a short period of time one would think he shouldn't need Bookbub to make his numbers buoyant.  

It's easy to blame other people for one's own issues.  It's easier to point fingers at everything that's unfair than it is to look harder at the problem.  With that said, my guess?  This guy gets in his own way an awful lot.  Case in point?  Yanking his books because he doesn't like the way marketing works. One part of that equation he can control, the other he can't.  

If quitting seems like the ONLY viable option to "give the finger to the man" that's a pretty poor way of doing it.  His books will disappear, his name will fade, new writers will emerge, new writers will sell books ... and in six weeks time Bookbub will still be a best seller machine and no one will remember him or his pity party.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

**********


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

LynPerry said:


> Two questions. 1) With that kind of success, would you keep striking the hammer if the sales numbers dramatically changed, or would you give up? And 2) Is BookBub a culprit in this?


Question 1.
My first thought is that the author did not sit down and develop a business plan. It took me about a year and a half of following posts, blogs and recording my own numbers before I really REALLY understood the power of luck and sales patterns. I earn roughly 50% of my yearly book revenue in Dec, Jan, Feb. That money has to be put away to cover the slow months of July-Aug where I can go an entire week without a sale. Also I am fully aware of the power of what I like to call, $10,000 weekends. This is when luck strikes and in a short period of time you pull in a crazy amount of money. This money can't be counted on to happen regularly and you need to have a plan for it when it does happen.

Question 2.
I think this is an interesting observation. I would be interested in seeing the data on bookbub results. How often their ads put books into the top 100 and for how long. How many stick past the day of the ad. How long it takes to fall off etc. As for the notion that people buying top 100 slots through bookbub as the reason your book doesn't sell is a bunch of sour grapes if you ask me.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2013)

Bookbub certainly cleaves the indy camp in two: those that can pay them and those that can't.


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## MitchHogan (May 17, 2013)

Advertising isn't buying people to buy your book. That's the worst logic I've heard in a while. It's getting your book noticed by more people, who then make up their own mind whether or not to buy your book. Plenty of Bookbub promotions don't do as well as others because of the books cover or blurb or reviews etc. People still have to want to buy your book.

Is a tv ad buying people to buy a product? Is a billboard buying people to buy a product? Is an ad in a magazine buying people to buy a product?
No, no, and no. Get over it.

Edit: for full disclosure I have a Bookbub promo soon


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Those who dont adapt with the market can always blame it.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

wilsonharp said:


> Many indie writers shout from the remnants of the shattered gates, "The Gatekeepers are Gone!", with a giddy sense of abandon.
> 
> But many, many readers desperately want gatekeepers. They don't want to slog through the slush pile to find quality writing. They don't want the thrill of excitement of discovering an unknown writer. They want someone they trust to say 'these books are good'.
> 
> Bookbub and other e-mail services are stepping in and becoming the new gatekeepers for those readers.


You can sell books without Bookbub and the others. We still have direct access to readers they're not all on Bookbub's mailing list. So the gatekeepers of the past are still gone, and I'm still giddy.

Bookbub doesn't read the books they promote, so it's not like those books have been stamped for quality assurance. If readers want some to tell them "these books are good", well that's all they're getting. Bookbub is a reference checker and those references (reviews) can be faked. But they're brilliant marketers, and they write great blurbs. I pursued their blurbs just to learn.


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

I've seen a few people say they're going to unpublish because things are no longer selling. A lot of them are still selling better than I am after 18 months of slog. It's just petulance. Sure, stop writing, but unpublish? Why? In the words of Eric Cartman, "Screw you guys, I'm going home!"


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't doubt that Bookbub has been quite disruptive to how the Top 100 works. Although I would not lay all the blame at their feet either. Marketing has changed markedly and you can still hold your own if you put in the effort.

Also, organic success is still possible. I've made it to #4 free with zero promotion just this year.

I think the problem with a service like Bookbub is that they likely control the 'churn' of the Top 100. They email, what, twice a week? And all those books hit their respective top 100s as a general rule. Do readers dictate the Top 100 or does Bookbub dictate to readers? Do books shut out of Bookbub have an uphill battle? I think so, but again, you have to account for the Bookbub factor in your marketing.

Bookbub may find themselves on the wrong end of the algo in the future as Amazon could decide not to allow an outside party to have such a prolonged effect on their top 100 lists. Especially if it gets to the point where the only books to hit Top 100 are Bookbub books and everyone else is shut out no matter what they do.

M


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Giving up on writing? I respect the individual's choice to do what is best for them and their unique life. That's sane.

Taking the books down? That seems crazy. Unless it's making you crazy, in which case taking it down is sane.

As for the author in question's specific career, I'd have to read the books and really look in detail at everything in order to even begin to have an opinion.

This ain't one-size-fits-all publishing.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

ChrisWard said:


> I've seen a few people say they're going to unpublish because things are no longer selling. A lot of them are still selling better than I am after 18 months of slog. It's just petulance. Sure, stop writing, but unpublish? Why?


It makes little sense to me, either. I've unpublished a few books recently, but only because I want to revise them and re-release them; in some cases, under my name instead of the pen name I first used. Just because a book's not selling today, that doesn't mean it won't sell in the future.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

I suspect in RJ Jagger's case the problem is he/she has an expensive lifestyle the author has grown accustomed to and doesn't care to abandon. If the novels aren't bringing in enough to support that lifestyle, then the author has to concentrate on lawyering full-time to keep the money coming in.  

That's regrettable. A struggling writer's strongest psychological armor in the long climb towards having an actual writing career is being resistant to the lure of material goods.  Also, as others have noted, don't take your books down. They might suddenly come into vogue and sell like crazy, or some movie producer might chance across one of your novels and decide to film it, which can change your career dramatically--if you have titles out to have a career with.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

If you read the author's comment, though, he gives two reasons for deciding to quit and unpublish. One is that BookBub has ruined his chances by "coming between the author and the reader." But the other reason is "to get haters out of my life."

I somehow suspect there's more to his decision than BookBub. Just a hunch. And he's not a new author if he's been publishing since 2006. Plus he says he's written 20 books and made tons of money and doesn't need anymore.

No one HAS to be a writer. If he's not enjoying it, then yeah, why not quit? I suppose the point of taking books down then, in addition to getting away from the haters, is so that you don't have to deal with it anymore (updates, taxes, whatever).


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## VEVO (Feb 9, 2012)

$142K + $80K + 28K = $250,000 in the last 3 years

That's a lot of money.

But if he quits, why removes the books from sales?

_My goal at this point it to remove all my books from the public. I've already removed 3 or 4 from all sales outlets._

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2013/10/guest-post-by-tom-keller-and-konrath.html?showComment=1381002797502#c1771300084589496920



> Joe, congrats on the huge sales. My story is exactly the opposite. After several years of very hard work I got to a high of $142K in 2011, down to $80K in 2012, and will be lucky to get $28K in 2013. At this point I'm lucky to sell 5 or 10 books a day. The downward spiral has been difficult to take and I really don't have any idea why it happened; but it definitely has. I've tried every way I could think of to reverse the trend but nothing has worked. I've finally had to admit to myself that I had a go at it but now it's over.
> 
> To keep myself sane, at this point I've quit writing and have moved on to other interests. it still nags me though that I failed. Anyway, congrats to you and those like you who have found a way to make it work. You've been able to do something I couldn't and I have to respect you for that.
> 
> RJ Jagger


http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2013/10/quitter-quitter.html?showComment=1381758634339#c6015068263669891828



> Always keep in mind that there is much, much more in life than writing. I wrote 20 books in 8 years, enjoyed most of it, met a few good people along the way and made a few bucks.
> 
> A few months ago I decided to quit.
> Why?
> ...


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## mariehallwrites (Mar 14, 2013)

If he's had 9 free books   as someone on here has mentioned, then I attribute that most of his problem lies right there. I like to make the first books in my series perma frees, as a lure to bring readers in, to let them take a chance on me. But that's it. After that my books, every last one of them above 30k words, goes into the 70% group of at least being priced at 2.99 or higher. At present I have 2 free books and likely, that's all it will ever be. I've got 3 series out right now. 2 of them are paranormals and 1 contemporary romance. So I set 2 books, 1 paranormal and 1 contemporary free. Just so that readers of both genres (since they don't always crossover) can discover my books. The third series I have out (I just released book 1 last month) I set to 3.99 from the get go and there it shall remain unless I decide to do a VERY short promo for it. Likely when I release book 2. Honestly, I cannot see how anyone could think to set 9 books free and expect their readers to continue buying knowing the habit of the author is to eventually drop everything to free.


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## Desmond X. Torres (Mar 16, 2013)

VEVO said:


> $142K + $80K + 28K = $250,000 in the last 3 years
> 
> That's a lot of money.
> 
> ...


The original post you refer to I saw on JAK's blog and it gave me a 'uh oh!' moment. I'm just starting out. Yeah, I saw the second post too...

I wanted to send Jager an email and went to his site. After wasting time there, I gave up.
His website is not reader friendly at all. All it does is show book after book after book that he's put up. The same artwork style, the same genre (noir mystery). Pretty limited stuff.

I wanted to tell him that, but his site has not a single link back to the author that I was able to find. If it's there in fact, he didn't make it easy.

He's a trial atty, btw. And my understanding is they do pretty good for a paycheck. I don't know if he's a DA or in private practice, but either way, being in a courtroom gives one a decent lifestyle.

IMHO... he didn't want to change an iota of what he was about as a writer, and so the market changed and his sales dropped. I do wish him good luck, but frankly I think his 'failure' is more his fault than Bookbub's.


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## Bookside Manner (Aug 24, 2013)

Edward M. Grant said:


> Just because a book's not selling today, that doesn't mean it won't sell in the future.


This! My sales figures for my debut novel were lame for about its first year. But I always got good reviews, and managed to get enough of those to snag ENT and BookBub promos, and now I get decent sales (for me) beyond the promo spikes.

The good thing about indie publishing is that you don't have a timeline for when you must make sales. If a book takes a while to find its audience, it doesn't matter - there are no paperback deals contingent on its first few months of sales. Of course, there's greater pressure if one is making a living off writing. There's nothing keeping this fellow from going back to the day job, at least part time, and continuing to write and publish.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2013)

Edward M. Grant said:


> It makes little sense to me, either. I've unpublished a few books recently, but only because I want to revise them and re-release them; in some cases, under my name instead of the pen name I first used. Just because a book's not selling today, that doesn't mean it won't sell in the future.


This leads me to believe that it's either short-term thinking or a simple hissy-fit. You tellin' me those books aren't going to be up again in a year, two?


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## Robert Gregory Browne (Mar 10, 2011)

Bookbub is an advertising service. They're selective about who they advertise because they don't want to chance alienating the readers on their mailing list. I wasn't aware that they ever listed authors' books for free, but I'm sure that was for a limited time while they grew their list—which is standard for a service of that kind. They do have to make a living as well, and growing a mailing list is no easy task.

I'll never understand authors who are unwilling to pay for advertising. Would a plumber open his shop and merely sit there, hoping to get calls, without telling anyone he was in business? Would you start a restaurant without investing in space and furniture and kitchen utensils and, most importantly, food? No, of course not.

Indie publishing is a business. You have to invest in the business to make it grow. The best investment right now happens to be Bookbub simply because of the reach it has and the loyalty of its readers.

The failure of free promos has nothing to do with Bookbub and everything to do with the saturation of free books in the marketplace, many readers being wary of free books, and Amazon's apparent reluctance to give them the prominence they once did (although there's no real proof of that). So what do you do? You do reduced price promos instead, and Bookbub is there to help you do that.

My last three promos with Bookbub have been extremely successful, easily returning my investment within hours and then some. Without their reach, this would not have happened.

Do I wish there were more Bookbubs out there? Definitely. But they have nothing to do with the failure of anyone's books. NOBODY knows what makes one book or one author succeed over another. It's all black magic and fairy dust.


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## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

Robert Gregory Browne said:


> NOBODY knows what makes one book or one author succeed over another. It's all black magic and fairy dust.


So THIS! That's definitely one thing that has remained true between traditional publishing and indie publishing. Ha! 

I just recently had a Bookbub free ad for the first book in my YA series BRIGHTEST KIND OF DARKNESS. I did that in conjunction with the release of book #3 in the same series, DESTINY. BKoD went all the way to #6 on the Amazon free store. It's at #28 right now, I think. I also had a book that Bookbub rejected, HARM'S HUNGER, (the first book in romance series), so I decided to put HH to free and see what it did on its own without a major promo push. With HH, that's the first time I've received a significant payment from Smashwords. The book took off on iTunes and all the books in the series moved into the top 100 for a fair bit of time. HH is still sitting in the top 200 and I'm thinking of ways to boost it yet again. Well, other than writing the next book in the series...that's always a natural booster. 

I think this marketing thing is all about trial and error. Some things work for some genres and not others. It's all about being willing to experiment and adapt...to find the RIGHT way to advertise your particular books to reach the broadest audience possible.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> Those who dont adapt with the market can always blame it.


Indeed.

Looks like an unfortunate public tantrum to me.

Now I wonder, who can I go blame? Hmm.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Well Bookbub helped me. Before I ran an advert with them I'd sold less than 100 copies in 6 months. They help new writers too. 

I'm sorry, but as a self-published author I have full control over every aspect of my book, and if I fail to sell enough copies the only person I will be blaming is myself. Yes, Bookbub is great for those who can get it, but it isn't the only method out there. He needs to seriously think about his business plan and get on with it instead of complaining.


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## AworkInProgress (Sep 5, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> You should poke that Hugh guy in the nose. Just kidding. This author reminds me of the email I got once. The reader asked when the rest of my books would be free.
> 
> What?
> 
> Well, if authors are making each of their books free at one time or another, then I can see how readers would expect it.


Pretty soon after joining kboards I was more than a little shocked to find that it was almost expected that indies would be giving away their books for free on mass. And while I'm still not to keen on the idea I've learned a lot more since my first little browse through the board. But I can safely say I now understand why so many people wait for free days. I recommend new books to people elsewhere online and through word of mouth and it never fails that someone says they're going to wait for it to be free.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

I do kind of agree with him that bookbub owns the top slots on amazon free (though I'd say top 20, not top 100). I've had a free book really moving up the ranks, then it was just like it hit a ceiling at around #20. The jump in sales after that was just so high, I wasn't going to reach it. I've written about it on my blog before.

However, that doesn't mean I'm going to give up publishing! I'm still getting moderate success from my books, and as my backlist grows, I'll probably consider bookbub (or whatever's big at the time, these things tend to change.)


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

I've seen this kind of thing before. A writer is convinced that his or her work is so great that the world needs to read it. When that doesn't happen to the expectations of ridiculous natures, they throw up their hands and decide to quit. The sad thing is: He was already becoming successful (according to his data) and then had a slow turn. His response should have been to change his business model to adapt to the market but instead he wanted the market to change to suit his needs, kind of like the legacy publishers keep hoping will happen for them.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

SBJones said:


> Question 2.
> I think this is an interesting observation. I would be interested in seeing the data on bookbub results. How often their ads put books into the top 100 and for how long. How many stick past the day of the ad. How long it takes to fall off etc. As for the notion that people buying top 100 slots through bookbub as the reason your book doesn't sell is a bunch of sour grapes if you ask me.


I am such a data geek, and have been watching exactly this for a while because I find it so interesting, the bookbub effect. For a few weeks now I've been looking at the books on sale for .99. I note what the ranking is when I receive the bookbub email, then check it a few hours later, that evening, then next am and a day or two later. What I've seen on average, is that the books that have great covers and a commercial sounding premise (as opposed to a niche type of thing), will either get very close to the top 100, or even blast into the top 50. I saw a cozy mystery author who was sitting around 250k ranking, zoom into the top 100. The ranking is often the highest the next morning, very early, and then drifts down from there. Some books manage to hang out in the top 100 for a few days before drifting down. By the end of the week, most are back or close to back to their pre-bookbub ranking.

This is just a small sample that I looked at, over several weeks and I only looked at books at the .99 cent point.

I think Bookbub is doing it right, making sure that the books they choose will be the most commercially appealing options. There are other competitors coming up though, The Fussy Librarian looks very promising and there will be others. Bookgorilla's results are improving. I tracked them a bit too, and while they aren't getting Bookbub results, their list size is increasing and their results seem to be too.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

PamelaKelley said:


> The ranking is often the highest the next morning, very early, and then drifts down from there. Some books manage to hang out in the top 100 for a few days before drifting down. By the end of the week, most are back or close to back to their pre-bookbub ranking.


That's it right there, isn't it?
BookBub can give you a boost but they won't let you keep advertising the same book week after week. 
So at best it's good for a spike. After that your stuff has to stand on its own. The blip of great visibility can gain eyeballs for the rest of your inventory. 
So having a backlist is rather important for BookBub to create any longer-term results.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2013)

The net is like quicksand, you sink fast if you don't adapt to the situation.

Amazon wants to sell lots of Kindles, so welcome all free promo sites, we'll PAY YOU FOR TRAFFIC.

Indie authors have a small window of time to make big names for themselves, since out of the Gate traditional pubs say what's a Kindle?

Amazon sells MILLIONS of ereaders, now kindles are branded and traditional publishers start to realize, no name authors are selling millions of books.

Now Amazon has a branded device, the need to push FREE is over, since book BUYERS now have kindles enmasse, and they will pay 9.99 for a KING, Brown or Rice new title and even get some old titles for 4.99.

Does Amazon 'need' Free traffic now? Not really, but it was genius to use Free to get kindles into the #1 eBook reader position.

Will there always be FREE ePubs? You bet, from 1996 to 1999 we ran the largest FREE eBook network in the world, mega millions in downloads, and it was mostly classics in nice PDF formats and when book readers saw the Free stuff they came enmasse and we had new authors there and they sold stuff being just on the platform.

I applaud Bookbub, they are the survivor of the 'free push sites', they built a huge opt-in email list and now press a button and have 250K in some genres of kindle and nook owners wanting free or cheap books.

So if your title can get into bookbub, which is basically what 5 reviews and either free or under 2.99, you are basically in for a minor fee.

I'd gladly give bookbub their 40 to 150 bucks for every title we have, since I know how much it would really cost to get a book into 10K to 100K new hands.

If the book is actually read and if only a minor percentage ends up BUYING other titles and going to sites in the books, 40 to 150 bucks is CHEAP as far as creating new buyers for an author and traffic to sites associated with that author.

Just pay bookbub the nominal fees they charge, the reason is, if you tried to buy that level of exposure on say Google, you would spent 100 times what bookbub is asking for.

Bookbub has a ton of power and look for a buyout of it soon by a publisher.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Avis Black said:


> I suspect in RJ Jagger's case the problem is he/she has an expensive lifestyle the author has grown accustomed to and doesn't care to abandon. If the novels aren't bringing in enough to support that lifestyle, then the author has to concentrate on lawyering full-time to keep the money coming in.


This. People keep saying "$142K? ZOMG!!!" but they're forgetting an important point. R.J. Dagger is described as a trial attorney. Let's assume he or she quit his job to write full time. So if sales fall and he's no longer bringing in $142K a year, then it would be rational to quit writing and go back to lawyering. (I don't know what firm this individual worked for, but $142K would actually be on the very low end for salary at most urban "Big Law" firms, so to go below that would be a major pay cut...not one that would be easy to stomach.)

That being said, it doesn't make sense to unpublish...just stop writing and focus on the lawyer job instead.


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## Catchy (Mar 3, 2012)

I don't get the "giving up on writing" thing at all. The author might be a great writer...it sounds like the author was not such a great business person/publisher. They're not the same thing. For some people it really is necessary to hire experts, that's business. Selling books is a business. Writing books is an art.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

adonipub said:


> The net is like quicksand, you sink fast if you don't adapt to the situation.
> 
> Amazon wants to sell lots of Kindles, so welcome all free promo sites, we'll PAY YOU FOR TRAFFIC.
> 
> ...


Five reviews are HIGHLY unlikely to get you into Bookbub and anyone who thinks their fee is nominal has a different budget than I do. You won't get a Bookbub ad in my genres for forty bucks, that's for sure. (I don't think in any genre, but I didn't check)

Try 400 bucks and a heck of a lot more reviews than that or an ongoing relationship with them to get your book in there. Nor do they require under $2.99 but they do require at least a 50% discount.

ETA: Just to keep any discussion of prices there realistic I checked since I don't run ads for free novels (I only have one that's perma-free & I don't advertise it) Only 3 genres are $50 for an ad for a free promo. Most start at over $100. 99 Cent promos run between $100 and $500 with most genres over $200. $2.99 promos are likely to get you into the $1000 range in cost.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> Try 400 bucks and a heck of a lot more reviews than that or an ongoing relationship with them to get your book in there. Nor do they require under $2.99 but they do require at least a 50% discount.


Indeed. I just got turned down for the .99 category in horror, which would have set me back $140. I imagine it's because I only have 6 reviews. Most genres promoted there are far more expensive than that.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Catchy said:


> I don't get the "giving up on writing" thing at all. The author might be a great writer...it sounds like the author was not such a great business person/publisher. They're not the same thing. For some people it really is necessary to hire experts, that's business. Selling books is a business. Writing books is an art.


But what if he doesn't enjoy it anymore? For many people, writing is not about art, but about business. The selling and the writing are intrinsically tied, so yes, I can totally understand giving it all up if you're no longer making money and are not enjoying it anymore.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Interesting thread. Speaking strictly as a reader here, I'm asking: Isn't one of the benefits of self-publishing a direct connect with readers? If your readers like your books, you don't have to "buy" their patronage. So, blaming BookBub is... an excuse? Perhaps the author needs to look in the mirror and write better books. Just saying.

Having said that, to cover my bases, I need to say that I'm a struggling writer myself, so I can't cast the first stone, but I am a successful avid reader and I am picky about what I read, so that's the POV I'm posting this.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

I wonder if he'll give me his books to publish under my name?


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Quiss said:


> That's it right there, isn't it?
> BookBub can give you a boost but they won't let you keep advertising the same book week after week.
> So at best it's good for a spike. After that your stuff has to stand on its own. The blip of great visibility can gain eyeballs for the rest of your inventory.
> So having a backlist is rather important for BookBub to create any longer-term results.


Doing what you can to get those BookBub readers onto your own mailing list would also be a long term boost. I've bought many books off Bookbub's mailers and I'm surprised at how many authors don't have a "join my newsletter/mailing list" blurb in their front or back matter. Focusing on short-term gains from that one ad versus long term.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Interesting thread. Speaking strictly as a reader here, I'm asking: Isn't one of the benefits of self-publishing a direct connect with readers? If your readers like your books, you don't have to "buy" their patronage. So, blaming BookBub is... an excuse? Perhaps the author needs to look in the mirror and write better books. Just saying.


The concept of a direct connection to readers is nice, but not a reality. I've sold tens of thousands of books over the last few years. I don't have tens of thousands of followers on Facebook or Twitter and whatnot. Most people who buy my books don't communicate with me in any way (which I am thankful for, considering as it is I already get hundreds of emails a week and I don't know if I COULD feasibly communicate with all of them if they did contact me!) I love getting fan emails much like I love eating dark chocolate. Sure, I could eat dark chocolate all day long, but it wouldn't be healthy.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The concept of a direct connection to readers is nice, but not a reality. I've sold tens of thousands of books over the last few years. I don't have tens of thousands of followers on Facebook or Twitter and whatnot. Most people who buy my books don't communicate with me in any way (which I am thankful for, considering as it is I already get hundreds of emails a week and I don't know if I COULD feasibly communicate with all of them if they did contact me!) I love getting fan emails much like I love eating dark chocolate. Sure, I could eat dark chocolate all day long, but it wouldn't be healthy.


Thanks, Julie! Good points!

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "connect" -- I meant that if readers like an author's books, they will keep buying more books by the author. I guess I should say "tribe" or "readership base" or maybe even "fan club." As a reader, I don't contact 99% of my favorite authors, but I do read their books and even tweet announcements. The authors don't know I exist most of the time, except those who email me or send me direct messages to thank me for one thing or another. But they have "connected" with my pocketbook LOL 

But yes, I agree with you about communication with readers. Not all readers want to talk to the authors they read. I'm one of those. I try to limit my interaction with the authors I read so that it doesn't influence my reading and reviews...  I eat way too much chocolate when I read...


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

This strikes me as more crybabying over BookBub not being "fair" to all writers. That seems totally ridiculous to me. The BookBub ads aren't expensive compared to how much income they generate, and as for accusations that they only accept well-known authors in the first place...that's just false. I ran a successful freebie campaign with them this summer and I'm a nobody.

The idea that they're "selling the free spots" just seems silly to me. BookBub is nothing but a tool to get your book in front of fresh eyes. It streamlines discoverability. No reader is going to download your free book if it's not interesting to them in SOME way -- cover, concept, reviews, whatever. No one just mindlessly downloads every single freebie that BookBub sends to their inbox. I've been a subscriber to BB for about a year and a half, and I think I've downloaded maybe five free books that whole time and purchased about ten. Only the books that interested me. I found it useful as a reader to have the direct mailer, so I didn't have to hunt for those books that caught my eye. But not every book they send my way catches my eye.

All that is to say that the books which make the Top 100 Free DO deserve to be there. It wasn't enough just to pay for a BookBub ad: they had to do their primary job of attracting reader attention and holding it long enough to get the reader to click that download button. It's no different from what your book does without BookBub, just sitting on that virtual bookshelf.



LynPerry said:


> Two questions. 1) With that kind of success, would you keep striking the hammer if the sales numbers dramatically changed, or would you give up?


I'd be asking myself what I need to change in my strategy to get close to my previous success. What are readers saying about my books? Are they losing interest because they feel too derivative? Is something about my style, my characters, my plots failing to hold the attention of the people who buy one book, so they're not inclined to buy another? How can I serve the people who pay my bills better? What is my work missing that they wish it had?

What are the authors who are still selling at high volume doing that I'm not doing? (Aside from BookBub promotions...) Cover, blurb, intelligent advertising with an advertising partner that actually gets good results (such as, hey, BOOKBUB)? Am I expecting the hard work I put in two years ago and got me to $140K to continue to sell my books today, or am I finding ways to keep my brand in front of fresh eyes right now? Am I changing my strategy to keep in step with changes in technology and zeitgeist? Or do I just want to rest on my laurels?



> And 2) Is BookBub a culprit in this?


Nope. I don't think so.


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## Missy B (Aug 20, 2012)

Suzanna Medeiros said:


> Don't underestimate the potential downfall of doing too many freebie giveaways with different titles. There are authors whose books I'll probably never purchase, even though I read their books, because they're constantly putting different books up as freebies. After a while, your readers will notice and they'll stop buying your books, choosing to wait, instead, for your next freebie giveaway.


This. There's an author whose work I'd pay for. Through the nose. I'm impatiently waiting for a new release. But, every single one of her books have been free. Since I owned the paperbacks of most of them (that I hadn't read into tatters,) I totally downloaded them. I look out for the ones I don't have on the Kindle app. And I'm a loyal fan. I can't be the only one who does this and more than likely folks who aren't loyal fans.

Bookbub isn't the problem. Yes, I think they have become the new gatekeepers. Does that still involve some of the same problems? Yes. Folks who can afford the price of bookbub are getting the spotlight. *shrug* It is what it is. Will I quit writing because of crap sales? Nope.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

What exactly am I suppose to do as a reader, sift through the 1000's of freebies every day myself? It was easier years ago when there weren't that many freebies. Now without some filter, its a lake. 
So sites like bookbub filter for me. Filter by genre and also somewhat by quality. By that I only mean I don't have to look at the 100's of horrible things that pop up every day. I don't have to explain those. Those who put those out would first off never pay for an ad and of course would never make it onto the bookbub list. 

Then there are those quality books who's authors can't afford an ad, which I can understand, or just can't get quite approved. Those I find on other sites that cater to the genre I read. It can be blogs, reader forums, etc. 

Bookbub isn't the only thing one can find books on. Even free ones. I still only get what I actually want, even if its free. 

I actually found that I buy way more off the bookbub list than I get freebies. Many times I already own the freebie when it pops up. There are a LOT of repeat freebies, especially in romance. 

I know some say they want to see everything, no "gatekeepers" no filters. But that doesn't work in reality. Most of us always get stuff filtered somehow. Friends, online groups, blogs, forums, email services like bookbub, they all in a way filter books for us. 

I think its silly to throw in the towel just because one doesn't make it onto one out of many filters. There are millions readers out there that don't have a subscription to bookbub. And even those of us that do do not use it as the only way to find and buy books. Its a good one, but not the only one.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm totally biased, having just had a fabulous run via Bookbub.

The process turned me into a subscriber; I'm glad to have a few suggestions in my mailbox every day.

Whatever power Bookbub has, though, could fade over the next year, as other similar services have done. Others will crop up. As has been mentioned, we really need a Bookbub-on-Trent (har har) for our UK readers. (I was disappointed in the teeny results there.) I also think the focus on Amazon is too USA. My books sell at least 30% internationally--UK and Australia, primarily--and iTunes is huge for those sales. If I only read on my iThing, Bookbub would be less useful to me, given all the Amazon only titles. Apple allows free days whenever you want, so there are tons over there to sift through as a reader.

Just my 2 pennies.


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

IMO, while I can understand and respect his wishes to remove his books from sale, I think it's silly. They're not hurting him being up. Unless he's like me where the simplest out-of-place thing sits on my conscience nagging me.  

Concerning BookBub: I was a subscriber for a few months before I stopped being one. I enjoyed what they had to offer on the rare occasion, but their emails were too frequent (daily!), and most of the time the books presented just weren't to my tastes (and yes, I DID request specific genres I enjoyed the most). I agree with Atunah that while BookBub is a fantastic filtering service, it's not the ONLY way readers find books.


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

When I quit, I'm going to blame all the other authors out there for ruining my career. GRRR! AUTHORS! Writing books that distract readers from my brilliance!

Seriously, though, I have no opinion on this. I don't know enough about anything to opine. Bye.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The concept of a direct connection to readers is nice, but not a reality. I've sold tens of thousands of books over the last few years. I don't have tens of thousands of followers on Facebook or Twitter and whatnot. Most people who buy my books don't communicate with me in any way (which I am thankful for, considering as it is I already get hundreds of emails a week and I don't know if I COULD feasibly communicate with all of them if they did contact me!) I love getting fan emails much like I love eating dark chocolate. Sure, I could eat dark chocolate all day long, but it wouldn't be healthy.


A direct connection with readers is gold and should be part of any indie's plan. I love getting emails from readers. If I had too many, I'd hire someone to help. I hope I have that problem. As it is, I can handle a few emails a day.

The most critical kind of direct connection is a new release newsletter. Not only does it appear this fellow didn't have one, and let all of those fans slip through his fingers, there's no contact info on his site. If he had bothered to make a connection with his readers, I guarantee his new release would have sold more than a handful of units and have a few reviews instead of the zero it has 6 weeks out.

Find ways to connect with your readers as much as you can, I say!


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

The great free runs of 2011 definitely warped my buying habits toward some writers -- I recently made a catalogue of my books in Calibre and noticed I had SIXTEEN books from an author whose work I've never bought (or read) -- they were all free on Amazon. (And I realize that some of them are anthologies, so...more than 16.) Given my current speed of reading through all the books I've downloaded, I might never get to this person's work. And yet this writer did pretty well, as I understand it. 

Things have changed. There has to be new ways of growing your audience.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Bookbub turned me down for my ad a month ago, but I've made 10K in the last few weeks, so I think I managed to cozy up to few eReaders without them.

I think when the passion dies, maybe it IS time to look at other things to do. For most of us, our passion for THIS keeps us going.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

TexasGirl said:


> I think when the passion dies, maybe it IS time to look at other things to do. For most of us, our passion for THIS keeps us going.


Like someone upthread said as well, maybe it was just time for that author to do something else. While it's a bit weird that s/he'd blame it on haters and BookBub, it could just possibly be that time.

Many years ago my passion was web design and over the years I made a decent bunch of cash with it. Then I discovered self-publishing. Years ago I would have thought myself nuts to get so far only to dump it for something else. But why not? Time for a change. So now I think THIS is what I want to do forever. Never say never. And never burn bridges.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Meh, passion is overrated. Ya gotta do something to keep yourself busy.


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

Mimi said:


> Meh, passion is overrated. Ya gotta do something to keep make yourself busy money.


Fixed that for you.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Mimi said:


> Meh, passion is overrated. Ya gotta do something to keep yourself busy.


My passion as your most ardent fan will never die.


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## MGalloway (Jun 21, 2011)

Atunah said:


> Bookbub isn't the only thing one can find books on.


The other side of this is that are there hundreds, maybe thousands, of ways to reach potential readers. Some outlets are more productive than others, however. Some are free, others low-priced, and others incredibly expensive. The only "limit" is one's imagination.


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## Robert A Michael (Apr 30, 2012)

Blaming Bookbub for a skewed market and effecting the Top 100 free is like blaming Superbowl ads for drunk driving. In ANY business, you want to invest revenue back into the business. Most times, this takes the form of marketing. 

I sell enough books to pay for my website, Office 365, some marketing, and an espresso from Starbucks. My plan is to maintain that same level of revenue distribution until this thing implodes. No quitting (thanks, JK). No excuses. No complaining. No pointing fingers at phantom gatekeepers or a silly market, or book distributors. 

The truth is: as long as I continue to enjoy what I do, why would I quit? I wrote for thirty years with only piles of yellowed and frayed type-written pages, hundreds of spiral notebooks, dozens of digital files in more than six formats (three different hard drives, CD-RWs, SD cards, thumb drives, etc) to show for it. Rejection letters. A dream of being discovered. If I was willing to keep writing, keep dreaming all those years, why would I quit when faced with a little adversity?

And, why would I lay the blame for my success at the feet of a marketing juggernaut? Seriously. Is he thinking that Bookbub is deliberately trolling him, doing its best to keep the man down?

Which leads me to another rant: Why would Amazon "fix" algorithms to nerf sales? Regardless of what caused the sales (free days, Bookbub, a run on smut, a particularly good affiliate store, etc), what benefit would the 'Zon have in slowing those sales? They are in business to sell books. Lots of books. If something works, good. If anything, the algorithm tweaks are probably attempts at making sales stronger. I understand the logic: Amazon is trying to limit access to discounted books. It still makes no sense. Amazon CREATED the concept of competitively priced books! 

Do the algorithm changes effect us negatively sometimes? Sure. But, to assume they are out to limit the capabilities of one particular entity that drives readers to their store seems to be a poor assumption. 
Sorry for the rant. Back to writing.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Right conclusion, wrong reasoning.

Yeah, it's crappy that it's pay-to-play and bloody expensive at that, but all business is pay-to-play and somewhat scummy about it, so what are you going to do?

The real problem is that Bookbub has no real competition, no natural predators. And like the mighty white-tailed deer, nothing good comes from something with no natural predators.

Unlike the mighty white-tailed deer, Bookbub isn't doing headers into people's windshields looking for sex. No, it is having an undue amount of influence on the industry.

As it stands, the choice is currently play ball with them or bow your head and slog the upstream path. The problem is that since you can't *just* play to pay directly, there is a LOT of encouragement of intra-industry dirty pool, especially fake reviews.

Think about it: not only do you *have* to reach their stupid minimums (which have now been made nebulous), but so do your competitors (or perceived ones. As entertainers with no time slots or theater capacities, we don't actually have competition perse, but everyone pretends we do).

Assume your 'competitor' is coming by their requisite reviews honestly. You have two glorious avenues to sink them on it. One, you can nail them with fake reviews to lower their rating. Or two, you can discourage gaining honest reviews by means of, for example, accusing people who send gift copies or ARCs of 'buying' reviews. This is an excellent way to scare newbies off of building themselves up and in the case of fake reviews, the culture does most of the work for you by instilling in them the idea that not only should they never fight back against toxic reviews, but they shouldn't even be monitoring them!

While there are places like KBoards, which are nothing but healthy and friendly to newbies, the actual environment of the industry is not one conducive to any but the hardiest (not necessarily the best) to flourish. At the moment, there's no barrier for entry, but also no reliable 'starting place'. You just dive into the cuisinart and hope you can dodge the blades.

While I think there should be more actually fair and open platforms to nurture the still growing (and awkward) industry, ultimately, the actual damaging effects Bookbub is having on the industry will ease as new competitors enter the arena and we are no longer a horde of piglets trying to suckle on just one sow. Once the chances of even being allowed to buy advertising is no longer luck of the draw, there will be less pressure to spike others or artificially inflate ourselves. And when that happens, there will actually be room for more new, unestablished writers to start making inroads again.


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## olefish (Jan 24, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> While I think there should be more actually fair and open platforms to nurture the still growing (and awkward) industry, ultimately, the actual damaging effects Bookbub is having on the industry will ease as new competitors enter the arena and we are no longer a horde of piglets trying to suckle on just one sow. Once the chances of even being allowed to buy advertising is no longer luck of the draw, there will be less pressure to spike others or artificially inflate ourselves. And when that happens, there will actually be room for more new, unestablished writers to start making inroads again.


The price of advertising will always high. There are after all only top ten free spots, and the number of writers are growing, which means the price of advertising will only increase in the future.

As more and more indies know to deliver a professional looking product, Bookbub resorts to more and more whimsical reasons for rejection. They either have to increase prices or make it harder to make the cut, and so indy landscape is becoming more and more rarefied. Perhaps more Bookbub alternatives might mitigate the cost a little bit, but the end game is the same and even perhaps makes things worse. We find ourselves needing more and more downloads to make the top ten spots, which further diminishes the power of free.

That said, I don't understand Jagger's gripe. He made well. Bookbub isn't the reason why his books are stalling. And bookbub only delivers spikes in sales. You can't sustain a career by playing the slot machines with Bookbub, at some point you need a steady cadre of readers.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

The issue with the pricing as it is now is that it isn't tiered. You have a lot of sites that don't work, some sites that work okay, and Bookbub. That, and only the Top Ten will do, which isn't sustainable for the industry. We shouldn't be able to expend cash to get that kind of status.

Eventually, there will be steps in between as the superpower-by-default thing Bookbub has diffuses across the industry. You'll have sites that will give you a nice boost when you're at, say the 100bpm (book per month) level and 1,000, and 10,000 instead of things you basically have to alpha strike and pray you meet requirements of like BB.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Forgive me if I don't shed any tears for this writer. I'd give my right boobie to make 5 to 8 sales a day. Heck, I'd give both of them. (I can see the naughty word list growing as I type.)

The thing is, what worked for this writer in 2006 isn't going to work now. Stuff that worked six months ago probably won't work now. It's a whole new ballgame, and he/she hasn't been practicing his/her batting skills. Tough. If you can't make a base hit, then maybe it's time to retire from the game.

Maybe that's harsh, but writing has never been an easy business, and sales aren't guaranteed, no matter how many scammers claim otherwise. Me, I'm in it because I love to write, and I think I can do it well enough to even make a little money at it.

So this writer -- and all the others out there who think the same way -- can take their ball and go home. More readers for me.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

Suzanna Medeiros said:


> Don't underestimate the potential downfall of doing too many freebie giveaways with different titles. There are authors whose books I'll probably never purchase, even though I read their books, because they're constantly putting different books up as freebies. After a while, your readers will notice and they'll stop buying your books, choosing to wait, instead, for your next freebie giveaway.


I think the magic sauce for freebies is usually older titles and/or first books in series. Then driving the freebie readers to author sites and/or amazon pages to buy books.

Then if you don't push the fact on your blogs and stuff, you are doing free stuff, most people won't check your author pages on amazon to see what's free today.

I honestly believe the 5 free day select promo in conjunction with bookbub is every authors most effective marketing tool. And bookbub limits an author to only 1 title every quarter I think, so that's 1 title a quarter to do massive free with.

That one bookbub promo every quarter, generates 10K to 100K free new readers for an author and it usually converts in the next few months to many sales, if the author has other titles or a series to push.

I think that's the one limit on bookbub, an author can't do more than 1 book a quarter, or is it the same title per quarter.

bookbub is picky on who they promote and then they do have a governor in place as to how often an author can appear.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

Robert Gregory Browne said:


> My last three promos with Bookbub have been extremely successful, easily returning my investment within hours and then some. Without their reach, this would not have happened.


When you start to look at Indie authors that have separated from the pack, the 1% of indie authors that do 99% of paid sales, you see one common item in the equation. BOOKBUB.

Yet another author agreeing BOOKBUB has the initial push power to get an Indie author into 10K to 100K new readers hands, then, if the author has skill, his other works will sell to new fans.

If I had to say one word to an Indie author not selling, I would say, well two words. Actually 3.

BOOKBUB
Select
BACKLIST (More than 1 book in catalog)

If you can get onto the bookbub promo site (they reject most authors), then, you run that freebie to a select for 5 days and after the 10K to 100K downloads come for free, your backlist lights up.

Almost every 'indie over nite success' that puts up a blog has mentioned bookbub, as something they did, the few that don't mention them probably used them too.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

Monique said:


> If I had too many, I'd hire someone to help. I hope I have that problem.


And then you wouldn't have a direct connection anymore. You would be creating the illusion of a direct connection, but you would be placing an employee between you and the reader.

You would also be adding overhead to your cost of production.

The situation is very similar to what we have seen happen in the corporate world. Being connected 24/7 was supposed to make our work lives easier. Instead, the boss now expects you to answer his phone calls when you are on vacation, or at your kid's soccer game, or in the middle of your spouse's birthday dinner, or your son's graduation. Clients expect you to return their emails within minutes, and why did it take you 10 hours to respond? (Beside the fact that they are five time zones away from you and the email was sent at 10 PM YOUR time and you were asleep and didn't see it until 8 AM your time when you actually checked you emails.

I'm not saying one shouldn't communicate with readers (I have a mailing list and FB and Twitter and all that). But I'm saying it is neither a magic bullet nor is it practical to try to connect with EVERY reader. You need to strike a balance that is sustainable.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> Unlike the mighty white-tailed deer, Bookbub isn't doing headers into people's windshields looking for sex.


BUT LIBBIE HAWKER IS!



> Assume your 'competitor' is coming by their requisite reviews honestly. You have two glorious avenues to sink them on it. One, you can nail them with fake reviews to lower their rating. Or two, you can discourage gaining honest reviews by means of, for example, accusing people who send gift copies or ARCs of 'buying' reviews. This is an excellent way to scare newbies off of building themselves up and in the case of fake reviews, the culture does most of the work for you by instilling in them the idea that not only should they never fight back against toxic reviews, but they shouldn't even be monitoring them!


See, here's what I don't understand. Why do so many authors go into this with the expectation that they'll get reviews immediately? Why are they looking at it as a short-term game for each book and not a long-term one? I'm honestly asking this question, not being rhetorical. Is it because we're all still used to thinking about books in the old model, where each book had maybe six months to be all it could be, and then it would slowly trickle toward OutOfPrintdom? Maybe that's it.

It's not a short-term game anymore. The best thing you can do to ensure your book's (long-term) success is not to buy advertising or any other promotional effort. It's write a really good book, and then write another really good book. And keep doing that for a long time, until you have multiple really good books. Promotion and marketing are important aspects to any business, but if you don't have a solid foundation nothing will stand on it anyhow.

Authors have to think long-term now. This stopped being a short-term game in 2009.



> While there are places like KBoards, which are nothing but healthy and friendly to newbies, the actual environment of the industry is not one conducive to any but the hardiest (not necessarily the best) to flourish. At the moment, there's no barrier for entry, but also no reliable 'starting place'. You just dive into the cuisinart and hope you can dodge the blades.


That is very true. I've thought about starting a blog aimed specifically at people who are just starting out, but I won't have the time to do it until I make the switch to full-time writing. It's just too much work to juggle right now. But resources are lacking, or at least difficult to find.



> While I think there should be more actually fair and open platforms to nurture the still growing (and awkward) industry, ultimately, the actual damaging effects Bookbub is having on the industry will ease as new competitors enter the arena and we are no longer a horde of piglets trying to suckle on just one sow. Once the chances of even being allowed to buy advertising is no longer luck of the draw, there will be less pressure to spike others or artificially inflate ourselves. And when that happens, there will actually be room for more new, unestablished writers to start making inroads again.


I'm starting my own, but it's only for historical fiction. I'm really looking forward to launching it. I love BookBub -- they worked with me and my promotion worked out really well for me. I'll use their service again. But there is definitely room for more lists like theirs, especially lists with narrow focus.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Free eBooks said:


> I honestly believe the 5 free day select promo in conjunction with bookbub is every authors most effective marketing tool. And bookbub limits an author to only 1 title every quarter I think, so that's 1 title a quarter to do massive free with.


I'm a bit confused. You keep recommending that authors put their books into Select and run the 5-day free promo, but your avatar talks about free books available on both Kindle and Nook.

So which is it? If an author is in Select and doing the 5-day free promo, then their books are limited to Kindle, and are not on Nook. So are you encouraging Kindle-exclusivity or not?


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

I did a Bookbub ad on 9/30 and closely monitored stats, so I can give hard numbers as to marketing effect. 

I lowered the price of the first book in a series from $5.99 to .99 on the same day that I released the third book in the series. I had not pushed this series prior to release of the third book, but my auto-buy readers have already read it. I have done no marketing for the book prior to the ad.

The rank of the book was 11,114 prior to the ad. By midnight-ish on the Bookbub day, ranking had dropped to #8 in the overall store. Each morning, I updated ranking on a spreadsheet and the next 15 days the ranking did the following:

9, 11, 35, 73, 90, 134, 202, 223, 271, 292, 341, 336, 315, 305, 321

Ranking of the second book in the series (still priced at $5.99), went from 12,488 the day of the sale to #941 in the overall store. It's 1185 this morning.

Ranking of the third book in the series started at 12,490 on release day (actually went live two days before the ad, but I didn't promo it), dropped to #490 in the overall store the day of the ad, and is #600 this morning.

So yes, the huge effect of Bookbub only lasts a couple of days, but the residual effect is still enormous. Release week, I sold approximately 10,500 copies of the launch book and hit #56 on the USA Today list.

Bookbub is still, by far, the most effective tool I've found for gaining new readers as far as paid marketing goes. Now, what smart authors do is try to convert those readers to newsletter subscribers. Those people are your autobuys. You want to collect as many of them as you can. So remember to put a newsletter sign-up link immediately following the end of your story.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

As always, fantastic data Jana.


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## zzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2011)

Writing is all I've ever wanted to do. I couldn't imagine giving it up even if I was making nothing at it.


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## LynPerry (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks for the great discussion, everyone. Learned tons.
What other services are out there that can compete with BookBub?

I subscribe to http://ereadernewstoday.com/, 
and http://bookvibe.com/ - Are there any others you like?


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> I'm starting my own, but it's only for historical fiction. I'm really looking forward to launching it. I love BookBub -- they worked with me and my promotion worked out really well for me. I'll use their service again. But there is definitely room for more lists like theirs, especially lists with narrow focus.


Me too. There are still millions and millions of readers who don't use BookBub; just focusing on a subsection could be lucrative for all involved. I'm looking into starting one for lesbian fiction.

Good luck with yours, El.


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