# Konrath's Ebook Company for Libraries



## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

I've got a start-up platform for indies, aimed at selling ebooks to libraries. It's called EbooksAreForever.com

I want your ebooks.

Info here: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/03/ebooks-for-libraries.html


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Ooh. New toy.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

I'm in.

Anything I can do to support the guy who changed my life, I'm on it.


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## GoneToWriterSanctum (Sep 13, 2014)

I do not accept VerticalScope's Terms Of Service on Kboards, and have asked for my account to be deleted, along with all of my posts.

If you are here as a result of a Google search, _*leave now*_. The owners of this site are interested only in your possible ad revenue.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Fantastic, Joe! Thank you for creating this. It must've been a huge task.

Question: Does EAF allow me to offer my permafree ebooks to libraries for free?


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## Harvey Click (Oct 28, 2013)

Your site says selling books through eBooksAreForever shouldn't conflict with the KDP Select exclusivity contract, but I'm confused as to why it wouldn't. Could somebody explain this?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Thank you so much for starting this!


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

I'll jump in here to help with some of these answers. 

@BeccaMills - Permafree is completely fine. From our FAQ page:

it’s important to note that this represents a pricing strategy for the consumer marketplace and has little to do with the library ebook marketplace. Consumer strategies do not equal library distribution strategies. Whether or not you have a permafree title available to readers will have no bearing on if that same title is available to patrons of a given library. For library patrons, all ebooks are permafree, which is one of the things that make libraries so awesome.

@ HarveyClick - the "It shouldn't" portion was a holdover from an earlier version of our beta testing. We've had many authors contact Amazon and ask specifically about Select, and as everyone here probably knows, Select doesn't allow for a title to be available for purchase anywhere else - libraries included. They don't stipulate whether that means consumer marketplace or library distribution marketplace. A sale is a sale. 

We're working on various ways to sidestep this issue, but right now, the short answer is that Amazon will always say it breaks the terms of Select.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

August Wainwright said:


> @BeccaMills - Permafree is completely fine. From our FAQ page:
> 
> it's important to note that this represents a pricing strategy for the consumer marketplace and has little to do with the library ebook marketplace. Consumer strategies do not equal library distribution strategies. Whether or not you have a permafree title available to readers will have no bearing on if that same title is available to patrons of a given library. For library patrons, all ebooks are permafree, which is one of the things that make libraries so awesome.


Thank you, August. I'm still not entirely clear, though. If I'm invited to join EAF and upload a novel I've been offering for free on all the retail sites, can I ask EAF to offer that book to libraries for $0.00, or must libraries pay $7.99?

If the answer is "$7.99," I understand. I don't fully follow what Joe explained about API and so forth, but I can see there must have been substantial costs involved in setting EAF up. Perhaps giving books to libraries for free isn't in the cards because that 30% of $7.99 is needed to run the site.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

August Wainwright said:


> We're working on various ways to sidestep this issue, but right now, the short answer is that Amazon will always say it breaks the terms of Select.


I'll add this:

Amazon is aware I'm doing this.

So far, Amazon doesn't seem to care.

Will they care at some point in the future? I've had titles in Overdrive and KDP Select for years and had no issues. Amazon doesn't seem to consider the library market to be competition.

Now Amazon has spiders, or some other programs, searching the Internet for titles that are in KDP Select to make sure they are exclusive and not on Nook or Kobo or iTunes or whatever.

EbooksAreForever is a private site. Its catalog isn't available to the public, unless the person registers. In theory, Amazon's bots can't find the catalog.

Will it become a problem in the future? I hope not. But if it does, I'll address it.


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## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

Exciting news. Thanks for pioneering this, Mr. K.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Becca Mills said:


> Thank you, August. I'm still not entirely clear, though. If I'm invited to join EAF and upload a novel I've been offering for free on all the retail sites, can I ask EAF to offer that book to libraries for $0.00, or must libraries pay $7.99?


I think being able to "donate" ebooks to libraries the same way we donate paper books is a good idea, Becca.

So far, we're only offering ebooks for sale. But we're still in Beta. I can foresee a day when we can also offer libraries free titles. We're not there yet, though. So if you put your permafree title into EAF, we'd charge libraries the same price we charge for all other ebooks.

We've found that libraries aren't as interested in buying individual titles as much as they are many books at once. EAF breaks it down so libraries can buy the whole catalog with one click. Then, as titles are added, they can buy those with one click.

Or they can buy entire genres, or specific authors' entire oeuvre, etc.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2015)

Kindle Unlimited was supposed to be a library slayer, but it seems EbooksAreForever is a Kindle Unlimited slayer. Obviously you can't be in Select and sell through EAF. 

I think just as KU ate big indies' sales and replaced them with low paying borrows, which drove them out of KU, I think the remaining big sellers will go for EAF and the big check in the hand instead of the borrows at an ever degrading borrow price KU is offering month after month. 

The only way Amazon can fight EAF is by actively offering big selling indies a big advance for their future borrows on KU or a steady, high borrow price.

KU is a mess at the moment, so Go JOE!!! Hope you succeed.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Jack,

Thanks for sharing this! [br][br]You're welcome to promote your business and website here in the Writers' Café![br][br]Now that you have an official thread, you'll want to add your listing to our Yellow Pages Listing, found here:[br]http://www.kboards.com/yp/[br][br]The listing is free to KB members and is completely self-service; you can add and edit your listing from the page. More information on our Yellow Pages listing can be found here.[br][br]In your thread here, we ask that the same basic rules be followed as we have for authors in the Book Bazaar: you may have this one thread about your service and must post to it rather than start a new thread each time. New threads about the service wil be removed. Please bookmark this thread so that you can find it again to post to. And, you may not make back-to-back posts to the thread within seven days. If someone responds (such as this post), you may reply but otherwise must wait seven days, thanks![br][br]Betsy[br]KBoards Moderator [br][br]Note that this welcome does not constitute an endorsement or vetting of a service by KBoards. Members should do due diligence when considering using a service, for example, by asking KB members for feedback and doing an Internet search such as "service provider name" complaints.


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## nonbreaking space (Dec 11, 2014)

i could only imagine the PR nightmare for amazon if they don't let select authors give/sell their ebooks to libraries...


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I think being able to "donate" ebooks to libraries the same way we donate paper books is a good idea, Becca.
> 
> So far, we're only offering ebooks for sale. But we're still in Beta. I can foresee a day when we can also offer libraries free titles. We're not there yet, though. So if you put your permafree title into EAF, we'd charge libraries the same price we charge for all other ebooks.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Joe. $7.99 may sound like a lot compared to $0.00, but considering what libraries are being forced to pay now, I bet it will strike them as an amazing deal.

How interesting about libraries wanting to buy entire oeuvres/genres/catalogs. Thinking about it, though, it makes sense -- without shelf space as a constraint, why have librarians spend time making decisions about individual books?

Hmm. But I imagine that makes curation especially important. Gonna prepare myself for a "thanks, but no thanks." 



drno said:


> Kindle Unlimited was supposed to be a library slayer, but it seems EbooksAreForever is a Kindle Unlimited slayer. Obviously you can't be in Select and sell through EAF.


Huh. Now there's a thought. Wow.


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## Tom Wright (Jan 15, 2015)

I signed up as soon as I read the blog post. Thanks for posting. I'm hopeful this goes good places.

(And I put a thank-you to you and your blog in my very first book. Reading your blog got my writing in the first place.)


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## charlottehughes (Dec 18, 2014)

You go Joe,
Love all your innovations, I applied


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## Janet Michelson (Jun 20, 2012)

What a game-changer! This will be a big win for libraries and indie authors. Hey, if you ever see that Joe guy, tell him he's awesome!


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

@BeccaMills
_*
How interesting about libraries wanting to buy entire oeuvres/genres/catalogs. Thinking about it, though, it makes sense -- without shelf space as a constraint, why have librarians spend time making decisions about individual books?

Hmm. But I imagine that makes curation especially important. Gonna prepare myself for a "thanks, but no thanks." *_

You hit the nail on the head here. A large part of what we've spent the last few months doing is getting libraries to articulate how they would choose to buy ebooks if the slate was wiped clean. It comes down to ease of use, budget sustainability, and having popular titles available (amongst lots of smaller issues).

Unfortunately, the consumer marketplace and library marketplace are going to be very different, and will require unique approaches to both. And to what you've said, curation is *HUGE*. There's nothing to love about the idea of having to send Bookbub style rejection notices, but curating the collection we offer as it grows is quite possibly the single most important aspect to the ease-of-use mentioned above. Our goal is to become so ingrained in the library purchasing procedure that we can eventually open it up a bit.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Just requested an invite. Thanks Joe and August.


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## baldricko (Mar 14, 2014)

Thanks to both of you. I will support this. Have filled out the form.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

August Wainwright said:


> @BeccaMills
> _*
> How interesting about libraries wanting to buy entire oeuvres/genres/catalogs. Thinking about it, though, it makes sense -- without shelf space as a constraint, why have librarians spend time making decisions about individual books?
> 
> ...


Yes, this makes perfect sense to me, August. Boy does it sound like a daunting time commitment, though. Just working your way through the hundreds of applications this thread is likely to generate ... yikes.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

I have signed up with my legal name which has books, but most of my backlist is under another name, how would you know that during the review process of my application?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Just let August know via email, Vivi.


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## tknite (Feb 18, 2014)

Huh, this sounds like it has some real potential. I signed up.


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

Does this mean that Joe at al., are curating the submissions?

Hmmm ... after years of Joe touting indie pub with no curation as the way to go, I am having a little trouble with this new tack. I happen to be in favor of curation, but I also care who is doing it.

Please correct me if I am wrong about this.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks Joe, I will.


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## Cactus Lady (Jun 4, 2014)

This is awesome. I would love to get into libraries, and libraries need all the help they can get to build good ebook collections at a reasonable price. I've sent an email to the address in the blog post.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

@MaggieDana

The curating is done in steps, where some is automatic, then it graduates to being seen by human eyes. I can promise that every title available in the collection right now was approved "by hand". 

That being said, Joe's not doing the curating. His titles are available and that feels a bit like conflict of interest, which I'm sure he'd agree with. Additionally, the aspect of curating books for the consumer marketplace is not necessarily the same as curating for the library marketplace. Librarians, and those who purchase on behalf of the library, are in need of a curated collection of ebooks because the alternative is Overdrive offering over a million ebooks, at high prices, with no idea how often the title will be read. 

As we continue forward, we will be leaning on the librarians themselves to help in this curation process. It should only get better the more we learn.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

tagging so I can read this when I'm actually awake enough to comprehend!


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## erikhanberg (Jul 15, 2011)

I have a good relationship with my local library (I have chaired the "Tacoma Reads Together" initiative for the last five year). If you are looking for inroads into new libraries, let me know and I can try to hook you in with Tacoma Public Library or the Pierce County Library system!

Submitted my books, so you can find my email there. Good luck! I love the idea for this service!


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## Alex Owens (Mar 24, 2011)

Just want to chime in with something I noticed on the site in the FAQ's:



> However, we're currently only taking requests if you've sold more than 1000 ebooks and have gotten more than 100 reviews on your backlist. Even if you meet that criteria, we're currently taking a limited amount of authors during the current closed Beta period.


I've met the #'s sold requirement, but I'm not sure about the # of reviews. It would probably come down to what/where reviews count towards that ambiguous line in the sand. I'm going to pretend to be an optimist today and go with "every review you have ever received, anywhere, will count"


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I've met the sales requirements on my books, but only one has more than 100 reviews. They are part of a series so if I include reviews of the Omnibus and reviews on other sites, they would count. The one that has met the requirement is my best seller and was the first book in the series initially.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I've met the sales requirements on my books, but only one has more than 100 reviews. They are part of a series so if I include reviews of the Omnibus and reviews on other sites, they would count. The one that has met the requirement is my best seller and was the first book in the series initially.


They said 100 reviews on your *backlist*. Five or six books gave me over 100. So, I'll go ahead and submit and see what happens.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

Count me in! I have ALWAYS been bothered by the way that distributors gouge public libraries for e-books. I think this is a GREAT idea!


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Joe
most of my books (15 of the 22) go back over 30 years and the 15 were revised and republished with a small publisher 4-5 years ago. Of course, with the small publisher I haven't seen much money or many reviews (and have no way of gathering any reviews they might have had 20-30 years ago, of course) and are anxiously waiting for their rights to come back to me this year so I can self-publish all of them as well. Whereas my 7 self-published (since 2012...and thanks to your blog I started self-publishing in 2012 and finally am making money- thank you!) some have over 100 reviews. Two of the self-published fall into the other category, backlist...they were published in 2003 and 2006 and I have no old reviews for them. I will still submit my self-published eBooks though and add the other 15 as I get them back. See what happens. Thanks Joe. You are the reason I have hope for the future. Self-publishing forever!


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

Great opportunity Joe! I've signed up.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Great idea! I'm registered. Whether I get accepted or not, good luck with it.


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## Cactus Lady (Jun 4, 2014)

> However, we're currently only taking requests if you've sold more than 1000 ebooks and have gotten more than 100 reviews on your backlist. Even if you meet that criteria, we're currently taking a limited amount of authors during the current closed Beta period.


Oh, well, that counts me out then.  Now I'm kinda embarrassed


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

Kyra Halland said:


> Oh, well, that counts me out then.  Now I'm kinda embarrassed


Don't feel embarrassed. That criteria leaves a tremendous amount of us out.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Pity you're not accepting non-fiction.  Why is that? I would think there is a huge demand from library users for good non-fiction titles.

Philip


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

No non-fic?  OK then I'm doubly out.


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## Shei Darksbane (Jan 31, 2015)

This sounds AWESOME and I totally want to be a part of it some day when my book is all finished. 

Do you need help from locals to get in touch with libraries? My local library is small but they have an ebook catalog and they are part of a networked system with the Greater Birmingham Area and all the libraries here are kinda linked up.


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## Kathy Clark Author (Dec 18, 2012)

*One item I do not understand*

If I give you my paypal email address and paypal password, which is not required to deposit money into my account, my account can be drained by anyone with those two items.

*Are you sure this is correct? Email address and password?*


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

This is the best thing I've heard in a long time. Excited to have a chance of being a part of it.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Kathy Clark a.k.a. Bob Kat said:


> *One item I do not understand*
> 
> If I give you my paypal email address and paypal password, which is not required to deposit money into my account, my account can be drained by anyone with those two items.
> 
> *Are you sure this is correct? Email address and password?*


Um, DO NOT EVER give ANYONE your PayPal password. EAF doesn't ask for your PayPal password, but even if they did, DO NOT EVER give ANYONE your PayPal password.

You might be getting confused by them asking for an email/password combo to create an EAF account. That's just so you can login to their site.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

Kathy Clark a.k.a. Bob Kat said:


> *One item I do not understand*
> 
> If I give you my paypal email address and paypal password, which is not required to deposit money into my account, my account can be drained by anyone with those two items.
> 
> *Are you sure this is correct? Email address and password?*


No, we would never ask for your PayPal password. When you are creating an account, you must enter an email address, an active PayPal address, and then choose a password for your account on EAF.

I'll look into possibly clarifying that on the signup page, in case anyone else comes to a similar conclusion.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2015)

Whether Amazon cares or not?

Amazon will only care if the venture takes off. Then it'll care a lot and it'll send someone to login and take a look.

Until then it's not an issue.

I'd recommend having a fallback plan in case it takes off and Amazon says - We changed our minds and now we care.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

Philip Gibson said:


> Pity you're not accepting non-fiction. Why is that?


@Philip - Non-fiction is coming soon. There's a few technical reasons why we started with fiction only, but the main reason was because we want to take some time to rethink what "non-fiction" means in terms of libraries. Personally, I think libraries stocked with some of the excellent guides that exist online today could create a new kind of "education" setup. Most people who want to learn a programming language, for instance (or tips on writing great prose), don't think to turn to the library for that information; but I think with the right vetting in place (which is easier said than done), many of the great guides/tools/ebooks/pdfs that exist online could and should end up in libraries.

So we're putting plans together to tackle non-fiction from that perspective.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

ireaderreview said:


> Amazon will only care if the venture takes off. Then it'll care a lot and it'll send someone to login


I'd like to think I have a pretty good business relationship with Amazon. When they do object they won't send someone to login. They'll call me. They know my number.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Exciting times. I've applied, but I'm not sure a Brit is allowed into American libraries


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Exciting times. I've applied, but I'm not sure a Brit is allowed into American libraries


No, we keep them out less that funny spelling infect the libraries. Must...save...the....children.


Betsy


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> No, we keep them out unless that funny spelling infect the libraries. Must...save...the....children.
> 
> 
> Betsy


Ha! I actually did put in my post something like "must spare the kiddies the horror of Brit spelling" but I bottled it, and deleted that part.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

This is such a great idea that someone was bound to give it a go, and I'm glad it's Joe. I was hoping Smashwords and B&T Axis 360 were going to get indies into libraries but it didn't quite come off.

Libraries are key to pushing ebooks into the mainstream. Every high school has a library, every college/university has a library. There are over 100,000 libraries in the USA with total expenditures of over US$20 billion, while Canada has over 16,000 and they collectively spend nearly $4 billion (source).

Too bad I don't have 100 reviews. Do 1 stars count as ten? They certainly hurt like they do...*


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

This is beyond awesome.

The first thing I did when I got my e-reader was to get a library card. 
Around here the local libraries draw on a central database of titles. I was miffed by the lack of selection. I'm not a devourer of books and when I didn't get my book finished by the allowed time, it already had a waiting list to get it back. What a pain.
This could really turn things around.
(And another reason to get your back matter in ship-shape)


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## charlottehughes (Dec 18, 2014)

Philip Gibson said:


> Pity you're not accepting non-fiction. Why is that? I would think there is a huge demand from library users for good non-fiction titles.
> 
> Philip


Agreed, hope it is in the works for later.. When I read at the library its almost always nonfiction, whereas I buy the fiction, dunno why


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## charlottehughes (Dec 18, 2014)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I'd like to think I have a pretty good business relationship with Amazon. When they do object they won't send someone to login. They'll call me. They know my number.


Yes but do they have your library card number?


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Kyra Halland said:


> Oh, well, that counts me out then.  Now I'm kinda embarrassed


Me, too. Sigh. I didn't realize 100 reviews were required.
Sometimes it just seems so hard to get over the barriers, doesn't it?


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## Kathy Clark Author (Dec 18, 2012)

Makes sense now.

When you see on one line email address for PayPal and on the next line password your mind thinks they are related


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Looks like a very interesting idea.

Good luck.


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## MikeMcEachern (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks for sharing this, it is a great idea!


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm going to bet that Amazon won't get squiffy about this opportunity. Yes, it is against the exclusivity clause for Select, but it's for libraries. The PR for squishing this idea would probably outweigh the relatively minor (to them) issue of selling to libraries. For one thing, libraries are theoretically a finite market. Kind of. Not entirely of course, but once they have the 3 copies of a book, they won't need to purchase more of them. At least not for a great while which is why I used the qualifier "kind of." At any rate, libraries are not competitors of AMZ and never will be. Now, what they might do to KU. Heh heh heh... 

Anyway, I already signed up to initiate the vetting process. 

And a huge THANK YOU and   to Joe and August for this spectacular project. I can't imagine how much time and effort this must have cost you, and I appreciate it very much.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Took a look and I find it all pretty awesome.  Count me in...assuming I make the cut, but even if not then count me in as a supporter.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

That was fast. I applied yesterday and got accepted this morning. Have started uploading my books. Thanks Joe.


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## GoneToWriterSanctum (Sep 13, 2014)

I do not accept VerticalScope's Terms Of Service on Kboards, and have asked for my account to be deleted, along with all of my posts.

If you are here as a result of a Google search, _*leave now*_. The owners of this site are interested only in your possible ad revenue.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Ha! I actually did put in my post something like "must spare the kiddies the horror of Brit spelling" but I bottled it, and deleted that part.


But that was my favourite part!


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Amy Corwin said:


> Me, too. Sigh. I didn't realize 100 reviews were required.
> Sometimes it just seems so hard to get over the barriers, doesn't it?


The problem is that there are some crappy ebooks. But unless we read every single title, we can't know what's good and what's bad. So we're crowdsourcing and letting readers decide for us.

Being 100% open to all titles means there will be libraries who will get complaints from patrons about certain titles that don't measure up. That means those libraries will be reluctant to continue buying our catalog if it includes some stinkers.

One bad apple truly spoils the bunch.

So the "x amount of sales and reviews" criteria is the only way we've found to weed out potential bad apples. But it's flawed. I personally know it is flawed. I've launched books recently, and they've gotten surprisingly few reviews. I'm pretty sure I know how to write after doing it for 20 years and selling millions of books, but some of my own titles would be rejected by EAF according to my own criteria.

Does anyone know a better way to judge quality other than sales and reviews? We'd love to hear it.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> The problem is that there are some crappy ebooks. But unless we read every single title, we can't know what's good and what's bad. So we're crowdsourcing and letting readers decide for us.
> 
> Being 100% open to all titles means there will be libraries who will get complaints from patrons about certain titles that don't measure up. That means those libraries will be reluctant to continue buying our catalog if it includes some stinkers.
> 
> ...


How about if the book had gone through some other curation process? For example, one of mine was included in a StoryBundle, which required someone to read through it and verify that it passed the quality test before inclusion in the bundle. Just throwing this out there as an idea.

My review numbers are generally low and it pretty much beats the crap out of me how to get more people to actually write them.


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## Reaper (Nov 5, 2013)

What a fantastic idea! I don't quite qualify yet (my book will be completed any decade now), but best of luck. I'd love to see this take off.


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## KOwrites (May 23, 2011)

Nice! I applied for admission. Joe Konrath, you are the reason I decided to self-publish. Don't let that influence your decision about my application. 

I'm so excited that you are doing this! 

The website is stellar, by the way.


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## PatriceFitz (Jan 8, 2011)

Applied, accepted, loading up!

Absolutely thrilled to be part of sharing books and reading with library patrons around the country.  I was one of those kids (weren't we all?) who would take out the limit of ten books at every visit, and come back as soon as my parents would bring me again to return those and get more.  

I can't say enough good things about libraries and librarians.  I think they are part of what is good about the U.S.  What could be better than putting information and entertainment into citizen's hands for free?  

Thanks, Joe and August!  A super venture--it's wonderful that you were willing to invest your time, talent, and money in something that's a win, win, win all around.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Jack Kilborn said:


> But that was my favourite part!


Ha! Quick question, Joe. I haven't received a refusal or an acceptance. I assume you'll let me know one way or the other? Or should I assume no reply is bad news?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Another question. I have several series that I've also bundled into boxed sets. Would it be best to upload on the individual books or just the boxed sets? Would you accept both the individual books in the series and the boxed set?


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

Is it 100 reviews per book or per "series" or back list?

Does Goodreads count or is it just Amazon?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Does anyone know a better way to judge quality other than sales and reviews? We'd love to hear it.


How about allowing authors who have already been admitted to the catalog to suggest or nominate new authors? People who are already in the catalog should have a strong incentive to keep up the catalog's quality in order to protect their own access to libraries. Perhaps you could spot-check the work of a statistically meaningful portion of the nominated authors, just to keep tabs on things. With a nominating system, the more people who are admitted to the catalog, the more eyes you'd have out there searching for new gems. You'd get exponential growth. Getting quality books by up-and-coming authors into the catalog early would, in turn, make it even more attractive to libraries.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Does anyone know a better way to judge quality other than sales and reviews? We'd love to hear it.


You are going to have to read....at least a little.

Reviews are too easy to game on Amazon, that's not a good indicator of quality.

I recently did a review swap with another author. I read his book and gave him some harsh feedback offline, as the book was not ready for publication. I did not want to review it because it was still too far from complete..

He would pass your review criteria and was pseudo-shocked that I said his book wasn't ready. It appears most of his reviews have been review swaps where no one actually reads each other's books...


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

Regarding this: I'd like to think I have a pretty good business relationship with Amazon. When they do object they won't send someone to login. They'll call me. They know my number.

That's good if Amazon will contact you first and work out an arrangement.

What do you think that arrangement will be? A limit on sales to libraries? something else?

Do you think you need to have more of a fallback plan than 'a pretty good business relationship with Amazon.'?


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Amazon stabbed both Smashwords and D2D in the back after stringing both along for a long time so there's always the chance that they turn on this as well, but it's a small risk and well worth taking. 

Libraries are the next big step for indie publishing and it may take someone with a profile to break down the barriers for the rest of us.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

Thanks for sharing that Herc. Could you please add more context. What exactly was the situation with Smashwords and D2D and Amazon?

GoodReads is also interesting.

first Amazon pulled their API from them, since they said you can only use Amazon's API if you stop linking to other stores.

Then, later, Amazon bought them.

Worth keeping in mind for the future. If your friendly business relationship doesn't work, they're going to pull a carrot and stick with you.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

ireaderreview said:


> Thanks for sharing that Herc. Could you please add more context. What exactly was the situation with Smashwords and D2D and Amazon?


Amazon promised both Smash and D2D that they would partner with them and then inexplicably pulled the plug. Both had to backtrack on promises they'd made their customers. But this is taking the thread off topic and we should return to discussing Mr Konrath's latest venture.

I know that, when I was last teaching, all the kids read articles etc on their smartphones/netbooks. This was just before tablets got big so I would imagine that this would have increased the uptake of digital reading. I found the biggest obstacle to ebooks in libraries was the librarians who, almost universally, love their books and are reluctant to consider anything that isn't paper. Hopefully, Joe can change their minds.


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## bethrevis (Jul 30, 2014)

I thought we were supposed to email for approval/an invitation before we do the application?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

bethrevis said:


> I thought we were supposed to email for approval/an invitation before we do the application?


That's what I thought too. I sent a request email a few hours after it was posted here. Was I supposed to actually submit via the form?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

MaryMcDonald said:


> That's what I thought too. I sent a request email a few hours after it was posted here. Was I supposed to actually submit via the form?


I believe so. But if you write under a pen name and submit the form under your legal name, you have to email to let them know. Otherwise, they won't find your books.


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## lvcabbie (Jun 11, 2011)

JA Konrath, an indie author who has a lot of best-sellers on Amazon, is starting a new service that seems to be a fantastic idea.

He explains what it's all about @ http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/03/ebooks-for-libraries.html and the link to the site is http://www.ebooksareforever.com

I've signed up and am just waiting for the confirmation email to go on to the next step. I am certainly going to tell my publisher about it!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi!

Jack has a thread here about it--I'm going to merge this with it!

Betsy


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

ireaderreview said:


> Do you think you need to have more of a fallback plan than 'a pretty good business relationship with Amazon.'?


My fallback plan is I pull my ebooks from KDP Select, and then blog about it. That's the limit of what I can do.

I'll never be able to compete with Amazon, or offer what Amazon can offer. But I can focus on areas Amazon doesn't care about. Innovation interests me. If I ever make a business decision based on fear, I shouldn't be trusted to run a company.

If Amazon does begin to care about the library market, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. But this market is so vastly different from a consumer market, it's practically the opposite of it. Readers aren't our customers. Consumers aren't our customers. Tax funded public institutions are our customers.

So far Amazon hasn't cared about Overdrive, which was just sold to their competitor Rakuten for a few hundred million bucks. If Amazon does begin to care about EAF, I'd be tickled, and would enjoy talking to them about it.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

I think there's a lot of authors that are on the line about moving out of Select, and if Amazon gets pushy about selling to libraries, especially if your venture is a success, authors are going to leave Select in droves. That's not good for Amazon.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I've got a start-up platform for indies, aimed at selling ebooks to libraries. It's called EbooksAreForever.com
> 
> I want your ebooks.
> 
> Info here: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/03/ebooks-for-libraries.html


COOL STUFF. Will bookmark


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I imagine you're pretty inundated with requests so can you give us an idea of your response time? It's been hard keeping my fingers crossed all this time and my candles are pretty much burnt down by now.


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Joe, someone else has asked here before...I also sent an email introducing myself a few days ago. Do I have to now wait until I'm officially accepted by you or August to fill out the actual application form? I've not heard an answer back so far. Also, is it 100 reviews per title (on Amazon and Goodreads only) or for all my back list which goes back to 1984? And as I mentioned in my recent email to you what happens if a book is 20-30 years old and I no longer have access to their old reviews before the Internet and Amazon? Just wondering. I really want to submit some of my titles.  [email protected]


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

Rayven T. Hill said:


> I think there's a lot of authors that are on the line about moving out of Select, and if Amazon gets pushy about selling to libraries, especially if your venture is a success, authors are going to leave Select in droves. That's not good for Amazon.


But KDP Select deserves that. What are they doing for indies remaining exclusive to Amazon? Nothing. The times that Amazon could threaten writers are gone. Amazon's share of the book market is going down, not up.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Kathryn Meyer Griffith said:


> Joe, someone else has asked here before...I also sent an email introducing myself a few days ago. Do I have to now wait until I'm officially accepted by you or August to fill out the actual application form? I've not heard an answer back so far. Also, is it 100 reviews per title (on Amazon and Goodreads only) or for all my back list which goes back to 1984? And as I mentioned in my recent email to you what happens if a book is 20-30 years old and I no longer have access to their old reviews before the Internet and Amazon? Just wondering. I really want to submit some of my titles. [email protected]


All good questions, Kathryn. I know August is going to post a long answer very soon.

Short answer: we got a whole lot of emails, and it's taking longer than we'd guess. The 100 reviews/1000 sales is more of a guideline for us than a rule.

The message we haven't properly conveyed is how different EAF is from any other ebook platform. Our customers aren't readers. They're libraries. Libraries are looking for specific things, and looking to buy our entire catalog. That means we need to pay close attention to the curation process, especially at the beginning, because we want to offer a quality variety of genres, in somewhat even numbers relative to their popularity.

So if you've got some romances, but we've got twice as many romance titles as mysteries, we won't need more romance titles until we grow larger.

Remember how BookBub was once cheaper and more open to submissions, and as it grew it began to charge more and be more selective?

We're going to be the opposite, because our customers are different. We need to start with tight reigns on content, but as we grow, those reins will relax and more books will get in.

If you're not approved, that doesn't mean you won't be approved next month, even if nothing changes.

My ultimate goal is to have a place where all authors have the opportunity to reach libraries. But think about it from our end. Let's say we have a catalog of 10,000. Libraries buy the whole catalog. But it turns out that 500 of those ebooks, over the course of a year, have never been checked out by library patrons.

Should we keep offering those titles, if patrons aren't reading them? isn't that a waste of the library's money? Doesn't it make our catalog less valuable to libraries, because we're selling them ebooks that they aren't using?

So we're taking things slow, building slow, selling slow, getting data and feedback along the way.

August and I are both authors. We don't like excluding people. We know what it feels like to be excluded. It sucks.

We're working on ways to reduce the number of titles we reject, but we're always going to have to reject some. If libraries value our catalog because we're doing the vetting for them, we have to vet or else the catalog loses value.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> I imagine you're pretty inundated with requests so can you give us an idea of your response time? It's been hard keeping my fingers crossed all this time and my candles are pretty much burnt down by now.


At this point, it would be a week or a bit more. We do apologize for this--it wasn't our intent.

Not only have there been a lot of submissions, but many of them we're "on the fence" about and have to discuss case-by-case.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> At this point, it would be a week or a bit more. We do apologize for this--it wasn't our intent.
> 
> Not only have there been a lot of submissions, but many of them we're "on the fence" about and have to discuss case-by-case.


No problem. It's best to know wait time up front.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

Rayven T. Hill said:


> I think there's a lot of authors that are on the line about moving out of Select, and if Amazon gets pushy about selling to libraries, especially if your venture is a success, authors are going to leave Select in droves. That's not good for Amazon.


The question is, how many of those in select have 100 reviews? With that sort of criteria I don't think it would push many to leave select if Amazon pushed against the idea.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

Decon said:


> The question is, how many of those in select have 100 reviews?


I disagree. Joe is storming the beach. He needs the best sellers first. The midlisters and the nolisters can come later, maybe much later or never.

Joe, just ask people to tell you how many books they sold or how many they've sold of specific titles which they want to put in your system. This will expedite your curation process.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

drno said:


> I disagree. Joe is storming the beach. He needs the best sellers first. The midlisters and the nolisters can come later, maybe much later or never.
> 
> Joe, just ask people to tell you how many books they sold or how many they've sold of specific titles which they want to put in your system. This will expedite your curation process.


Not that I wouldn't want to put all of my backlist into the catalog, but I know the ones that sell and the ones that barely sell. It might cut down on the _maybes _if we tell you what our best sellers are. That way you won't have to curate a whole backlist for each author. I've got over 40 titles. There are additional books I co-wrote which I wouldn't be able to put in your catalog.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

I think that creaming off all the bestsellers on the criteria mentioned is a bad idea, but its Joe's business.

He's offering them a bundle at a lower price than they can get from the Trad books... there's the value. Many quality trad books struggle to get 100 reviews. 

Just a personal opinion, but he should be looking for a mix with the bundles just like owners of video libraries did in the past when they were looking for value for money and the numbers on the shelves to attract library members.  Hell, that's exactly what Amazon have done with indies for them to sell kindles and to boast a huge catalog. (Not sure if that's the case now)If he gives them all Warner video film type books from the start, where does he go from there? Especially with the value of future bundles. 

Quality yes, but all bestsellers with stacks of reviews?

A book with over a 1000 sales and 100 reviews is as good as most trad books, but at the price mentioned against what the libraries pay now to trad-publishers, he is underselling if they are all that criteria without them being a mix.

What was it he once said. Something similar to .... At 99c for a self-published book, trad books need to be 10 times better in quality at the prices they charge.

Don't get me wrong. I think it is a fantastic idea.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

I don't think he's trying to sell CHEAP books to libraries, but INDIE written books. Libraries at the moment don't buy indie books and by giving them popular, well written indie books he can break open this market for indies. I have no problem waiting till best selling indies break open the library market for the rest of us indies. 

Kindle Unlimited is slowly becoming a bust for me. First my revenue was going up, then sales were eaten by borrows and now my borrows are declining. What Viola Ward was saying about her best selling books in KU is now happening with my rent money selling books in KU. So it's time for something different.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

I think a wide selection of genres is a very good idea and the collection should contain a good selection of lit fic, because librarians like that sort of thing, and a good selection of academically based non-fiction, because it will add gravitas.

(Hey, it's worth a try...)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Decon said:


> A book with over a 1000 sales and 100 reviews is as good as most trad books, but at the price mentioned against what the libraries pay now to trad-publishers, he is underselling if they are all that criteria without them being a mix.


I believe it's 100 reviews over your _backlist_. At 100 reviews per book, over half of Nora Robers books wouldn't qualify.


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## JeanetteRaleigh (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm planning to add mine in the next week or so.  I have a recommendation for everyone.  Contact your local library and send them the link.  

Update:  Oops...missed the 100 reviews requirement.  Have to wait...but I did contact the library.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

Hey everyone. Apologies for the slow response.

First off, I want to thank everyone for the outpouring of support in what we're attempting to accomplish with EAF. For so many people to reach out and say they'll have our back regardless of whether they're approved during this beta period is a huge validation of what we've been doing on a daily basis for over 9 months. So, again, thank you.

Next, a few people have asked if no-response equals a no to your invitation; this is not the case at all. Because of the strong response, we were completely inundated with requests, and to do justice to each author, the normal 24-48 hours approval process may take a bit longer. Bear with us; we'll get to everyone and send a response regardless of the decision. If you've applied and don't receive notification within 7 days, go ahead and reach back out.

Many have asked about the issue of legal name vs. pen name. If you signed up using your legal name and it doesn't reflect the name your books are published under, you can shoot us an email to let us know. It helps, but it's not at all necessary. Because of the fact that each account is approved individually, if we have no idea what books a name represents, we'll reach out to you. It will never be a case where we can't find your books, so we automatically reject you.

I also want to take some time to speak about the curated aspect of what we're doing. In a perfect world, it wouldn't be necessary. But the important thing that we need to continue to convey (and probably do a better job of) is that the consumer marketplace and library marketplace are two different entities. Joe has hit on this in a few of his responses. There are many things that would be expected when it comes to Amazon/B&N/Kobo/Apple/etc, that simply don't work the same way for libraries. Mostly, this is due to the fact that the consumer reader market is growing (depending upon who you ask of course), where as library budgets are shrinking - and they're shrinking while ebook prices are continuing to climb.

So before we can service a ton of indie authors, we have to supply a set idea of where things will go. That's what we're doing right now. Libraries have asked for something that essentially works the opposite of how Overdrive/3M works. We want to deliver upon that request.

When it comes to curating, it's a necessary evil. Many of you have already pointed out the fallacy in saying "1000 sales, 100 reviews" or asked if 100 reviews means across all titles, or every title. I want to be 100% clear and open in saying that these things aren't concrete. One author _may_ be rejected when they obviously have over 1000 sales... or 100 reviews; others may be accepted with only a few reviews. Like Joe has said, reviews are much harder to come by now, and we know that. We've come across books that are obviously of high quality that have few sales, and fewer reviews. And we've accepted some of those titles. We won't automatically turn you away because of lack of reviews. Unfortunately, though, we also can't automatically accept based entirely on hitting certain thresholds.

To finish all necessary testing before our official launch, we need to control both _quality_ and _quantity_ of titles, as well as the number of titles per genre. We can't go to launch with 80% of our titles being mystery titles; which may lead to someone who passes all the criteria we've set being temporarily denied at this point. Being denied access now doesn't mean you'll be denied in 2 weeks, or 2 months. Overall, there are various factors that go into the curation process, of which number of reviews, number of titles, whether your books are in a series, estimated sales figures, cover art, book description, current genre saturation, library interest, and overall availability are just a few.

We have many different features we plan to add to this curation process, and things should become more clear as we move forward.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Best of luck guys.

It's an ambitious project (most people have no idea how much work it will be) and it sounds like you have a reasonable plan going forward.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

August Wainwright said:


> Hey everyone. Apologies for the slow response.
> 
> First off, I want to thank everyone for the outpouring of support in what we're attempting to accomplish with EAF. For so many people to reach out and say they'll have our back regardless of whether they're approved during this beta period is a huge validation of what we've been doing on a daily basis for over 9 months. So, again, thank you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update! I had a assumed by this time I had be rejected without noticed - but I guess I just need to wait a bit longer.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2015)

Yes, this exactly:

Best of luck guys.

It's an ambitious project (most people have no idea how much work it will be) and it sounds like you have a reasonable plan going forward.


*****
A big victory for indie authors if this happens. Much credit to Konrath, Wainwright, etc. for taking a shot. Huge project - hugely ambitious and difficult.

One Q - now that Kobo/Rakutan has bought Overdrive (and its library sharing app) is there an opportunity to talk to them and leverage their new found relationship with libraries. I'm sure Rakutan would LOVE to get more love from indie authors.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks, August. I know you guys are doing this thing right after many months work.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

ireaderreview said:


> One Q - now that Kobo/Rakutan has bought Overdrive (and its library sharing app) is there an opportunity to talk to them and leverage their new found relationship with libraries. I'm sure Rakutan would LOVE to get more love from indie authors.


I'm sure Rakuten will attempt to find ways to integrate Overdrive on Kobo devices but, as of right now, my personal feelings are that this may end up hurting libraries in the long run. I have no factual information to base that opinion on, but Rakuten is a conglomerate that does over 5 billion a year in revenue. Although there are plenty of integrations that Kobo and Overdrive could implement to help both authors and libraries, I wonder how much emphasis will be put on returning solid margins over innovating in the library marketplace.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

August Wainwright said:


> I'm sure Rakuten will attempt to find ways to integrate Overdrive on Kobo devices but, as of right now, my personal feelings are that this may end up hurting libraries in the long run. I have no factual information to base that opinion on, but Rakuten is a conglomerate that does over 5 billion a year in revenue. Although there are plenty of integrations that Kobo and Overdrive could implement to help both authors and libraries, I wonder how much emphasis will be put on returning solid margins over innovating in the library marketplace.


That's the big difference, isn't it? You're looking to accommodate libraries with ever shrinking budgets and they're looking to exploit libraries until they've sucked out every drop of money they can.

Not that you're being altruistic, but you've found a niche that seems like a win-win-win for libraries, indies and you guys. Fingers crossed, candles lit that it all works out.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

ireaderreview said:


> I'm sure Rakutan would LOVE to get more love from indie authors.


No doubt. But Overdrive has to deal with publishers, and publishers are the ones making most of the demands and causing most of the problems for libraries. And I'm sure Rakuten isn't going to change Overdrive's business model, which is dependent upon licensing.

Even if Overdrive opened up to indies, there would still be animosity with libraries because they're squeezing them rather than trying to work with them.

Squeezing works when there is no alternative. EAF wants to be the alternative.


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Thanks Joe for the answers. I'll wait patently until I hear something. Or not. But you didn't answer me about the fact that some of my back list is so old (back to 1984) and I have no access to reviews for them. Like my first book, Evil Stalks the Night (horror, Leisure paperback 1984) sold over 60,000 copies that I know of back in the day, but I hardly ever saw any reviews on it. But, then, that was 1984. It, Witches, and my Egyptian Heart (time travel romance) all sold well for Leisure and Zebra paperbacks back in their time and all my old books have been in libraries since 1984 - the unrevised version paperbacks anyway. I've revised all of them in 2010 since then. With me you'd have a smorgasbord....I've published horror, romantic horror, time travel, thrillers, suspense and murder mysteries since 1984. I'm just a storyteller. If I don't get accepted now I'll just try again later as my last 15 older books revert back to me from my last publisher in the next two years. This is a great idea, though, Joe!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Got my reply.      But I'm not surprised and I might try again down the road. 

Best of luck to all of you that get in. 

It might be nice to see some figures after the official launch.


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Got my reply.    But I'm not surprised and I might try again down the road.
> 
> Best of luck to all of you that get in.
> 
> It might be nice to see some figures after the official launch.


I'm in the same boat.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Curation is a very important aspect of EAF. One that makes it valuable to libraries. 

Imagine being a buyer for a large library, with a $50k budget to spend on ebooks. Imagine you could buy them from Amazon.

What would you buy?

Let's say you buy all the bestselling authors that you already know about; what next?

Do you begin to look at rankings? Customer reviews? Genre bestseller lists?

You're looking for ebooks that your patrons will borrow. What would happen if you bought 5000 ebooks last year, and 12 months later 1000 of those ebooks you bought haven't been checked out even once?

Creating a catalog for EAF isn't easy. We're curating so libraries don't have to. Rather than buy titles one at a time, libraries can buy thousands of titles with one click. We're saving them a lot of time, and a lot of money.

But we have to make sure the content the libraries are buying is going to be used by their patrons.

If an ebook has only a single Amazon review, and it is ranked 900,000, including it in the EAF catalog means we're running the risk of selling the library a book their patrons won't ever borrow. If we have hundreds (or thousands) of titles that patrons don't borrow, the library will stop buying our catalog.

It means we'll no doubt miss out on some great books in the beginning. That's unfortunate. August and I are discussing ways to work with authors who may not have a lot of sales yet. We don't want to pass up good books.

However, look at it from our perspective. We're only potentially valuable to libraries if we serve those libraries' patrons. If a patron used the EAF app to download ebooks from our catalog, tries five titles, and can't get through any of them because they aren't good, that patron will stop borrowing our titles because they no longer trust us, and libraries will stop buying our catalog.

This isn't an open playing field like Amazon, where consumers choose what to buy and are picky. To a library patron, all ebooks are free. Patrons will likely assume, if the library bought it, that the book is good. But if it isn't good, and neither are the next few that patrons tries, our company won't be in business for long.

Imagine you own a buffet restaurant. To stay in business you'll need to offer customers dishes they'll eat. If you serve something that no one eats, you wasted money, plus you risk customers not coming back because they didn't like your selection.

It may be okay if you have four or five dishes out of fifty that customers don't care for. But what if 1/3 to 1/2 of your dishes aren't ever touched? How long will you stay in business?

EAF wants to connect authors and readers through libraries. But to do that, we need to have libraries trust our curated catalog, and show them that their patrons like our titles.

That means vetting, and saying no to some people.

At first.  

In the future, we'll have a system in place where libraries can acquire our catalog risk-free, and where authors can earn money forever. All authors, no vetting, no curation.

But first we have to take our baby steps, make some inroads, and get into the black.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Hey Joe/ August, I wish you much luck in the venture, mostly for the sake of libraries and readers.

I assume EAF won't ever be concerned with offering print books to libraries. As a future-facing business, that makes sense. But what about digital audiobooks? It seems to be that libraries would gobble those up too.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

You guys are walking a fine line and I don't envy you in this process.

By presenting yourselves as the best avenue for self-published authors to get into the library system, you open the doors to authors who have had difficulty getting their books into OverDrive or 3M - which is good.

By then saying you will only take best sellers, or exceptional titles that have already developed a following, you slam that door back in their faces again.

It's a business decision, we get it.

Independent authors can already get their books in OverDrive today.  Mine are.  I've not sold 1000 books yet across all channels, but because I have a group of followers who are young and enthusiastic library users, several librarians requested my books directly. Since they are in the Overdrive catalog through SmashWords, they were purchased by those libraries and are available to their users.  Two of these libraries actually bought physical books as well which was a pleasant surprise.  All driven by their patrons. I did have to make my books available through Smashwords to OverDrive and the CreateSpace Extended Distribution programs - and then get someone to ask enough times for the library to order them.

Will my books be checked out and read by anyone other than the small group who requested them?  Not likely this year, but time will tell.  They will probably tell their friends who like Epic Fantasy, and that will generate a few more borrows.  The libraries will do OK with my books and this clique of kids, but it will be short lived, I'm sure.  Will the fact that my books were ordered by specific libraries mean that more will order them?  Not likely, and I understand the reasons why.

I don't expect to be included in your project, although I applied.  I'm unknown, have a low sales ranking, few reviews, and certainly no one will be clamoring for my books to be added to the available books in your vetted selection.  

It's OK. I get it.

We will likely be reading about your acquisition by Rakuten or someone else in the future for a very large sum of money, and we will all be very proud of what you accomplished along the way.  Don't be strangers when that happens.

I hope every library in the country buys into your concept and your catalog.  I seriously do - even though I know my chances of being included are somewhere between zero and none.

We all wish you only the best.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

thewitt said:


> I don't expect to be included in your project, although I applied. I'm unknown, have a low sales ranking, few reviews, and certainly no one will be clamoring for my books to be added to the available books in your vetted selection.
> 
> It's OK. I get it.
> 
> ...


This.

The problem with going by Amazon rankings is that many authors rankings have dropped into the cellar since KU, mine included. As I said earlier, I know which of my books sells and where those books sell. Nearly two years with D2D and as of yesterday, I've sold 7059, but that does include first in series permafree.

I understand your curating process and why you have to do it that way. I also understand why I was turned down and that's okay with me.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

thewitt said:


> By then saying you will only take best sellers, or exceptional titles that have already developed a following, you slam that door back in their faces again.


At this point in the game, it's not about getting a shipment or two into libraries. Smashwords has already done that with their library direct program and, just so you know, that was also a selection of the bestselling titles in each genre from their site.

What indies need is for someone to break down the bias against non-trad published books in the library industry. Having a big name like Konrath involved could thaw up attitudes. If attitudes change, then there will be a multiplicity of ways of getting into libraries. There's Smashword's library direct and Axis 360 from B&T (also through Smash) just to name two, and I'm sure D2D has something available as well.

In the age of the internet, one distributor does not sit on a niche long and if Konrath can break down the door, then it doesn't matter if he'll take your book or not. If he won't take it, then someone like Smash or D2D will.

I live in Australia and we usually are at the back of the line when it comes to stuff like this, and even my local library can get hold of my books if they want to. But they won't. In fact, they won't buy anything that hasn't got a recognized publisher's label on it. Which is strange because if they adopted indies, then publishers will panic and probably start treating them with the respect they deserve (they currently charge 3x cover price for an ebook that the library can only lend out 26 times, which is insane).

It's not that libraries *can't* buy indy titles, it's that they *won't* buy indy titles, and changing that attitude will benefit us and our readers (and the libraries as well).


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> I live in Australia and we usually are at the back of the line when it comes to stuff like this, and even my local library can get hold of my books if they want to. But they won't. In fact, they won't buy anything that hasn't got a recognized publisher's label on it. Which is strange because if they adopted indies, then publishers will panic and probably start treating them with the respect they deserve (they currently charge 3x cover price for an ebook that the library can only lend out 26 times, which is insane).
> 
> It's not that libraries *can't* buy indy titles, it's that they *won't* buy indy titles, and changing that attitude will benefit us and our readers (and the libraries as well).


I'm also an Aussie, and can vouch for the no-indies bias here in our libraries. I offered them my 3 Montlake books for free and they almost wouldn't take them because they'd never heard of Montlake. I had the devil of a time convincing them it wasn't a mickey mouse publishing house that I'd set up in my basement. They didn't want to know about my indie books, even though I was happy to donate them too. I can't see indie books becoming acceptable in Australian libraries within the next 5-10 years, sadly.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

CJArcher said:


> I can't see indie books becoming acceptable in Australian libraries within the next 5-10 years, sadly.


I'm not that pessimistic. It's all about attitude at the moment, I reckon. Libraries are getting screwed by publishers and they don't like it one bit. If they lose their bias against indies, they can use us like Amazon uses us. 'Look at all these great books!' they will say, 'and all for a song! Why would we pay $50 for one of your crappy books when we can get 50 of these great books for the same price! And have them forever!'
To protect culture!' the publishers will say, red faced and righteous. 'The English language, decent covers! Have you no decency, getting into bed with that lot?'
'Pffft,' the libraries will say.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

My county library bought two of my print books.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

thewitt said:


> I'm unknown, have a low sales ranking, few reviews, and certainly no one will be clamoring for my books to be added to the available books in your vetted selection.


Although the process, for now, will be a little selective (remember, this is still in beta testing and won't fully launch until later this year), I want to make sure it's clear that we're not simply asking for bestsellers from big-named authors. We've already flagged a few titles that have almost no reviews, and are nowhere near the bestsellers list, because we believe it's a fit for the libraries we're working with right now.

A lot of support messages we're answering are asking specifically about reviews and are bypassing the MORE important aspects of established fan-base, whether your books are in a series or not, cover art, book description, current genre saturation, library interest, and overall availability. Reviews are just one of the many things we look at.

To be more specific, I responded to an author who was upset at being denied access at this point. Their issue was that they had received 200+ reviews on book 1 in a series, and over 300 reviews of the combined series. They demanded to know why they were being left out when they clearly met the criteria. However, the first book in the series was set as permafree and most of the reviews weren't entirely favorable. Further reviews of later books in the series showed constant reader frustration with the lack of editing involved. At that point, no amount of reviews and/or sales would make those titles a good fit for a collection of curated titles.

In contrast, there have been multiple debut novels (with little or no reviews), as well as other books that have great covers, great blurbs, and great author interaction with readers on various sites. Maybe these books haven't taken off yet; maybe the author hasn't run promotions; or maybe they haven't found the right audience. Regardless, these types of books are FAR more valuable to us - and more importantly, to libraries - then poorly edited, poorly represented books that have lots of reviews.


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

@August

Are you accepting children's (middle grade) series?


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

Maggie Dana said:


> Are you accepting children's (middle grade) series?


Absolutely. But, during this initial beta period, it will be to a slightly lesser degree than ya/new adult/adult fiction. That is entirely based on the desires of the libraries we're working with at this time.

Overall, though, children's books - especially those written by indies and small press pubs - have an extremely difficult time catching on and they're a great fit for public and school libraries.


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## Deborahsmith author (Jul 23, 2013)

So . . . this business will help authors offer their work to libraries for free or for a very small one-time payment? And the ebooks will not be DRM protected? 

This will only make money -- and earn new readers -- for a handful of authors. The rest will be selling out for zippo, AND opening their ebooks to a whole new avenue for piracy. 

Libraries are strapped for acquisition money. They're not going to invest much money (or time) in searching through herds of unknown authors (whose books are not being requested by patrons); books that have no source credentials that librarians routinely use to justify a purchase i.e. Library Journal, School Library Journal, and other major reviewers. They're already swamped with choices that DO have those credentials. 

Librarians are not prejudiced against indie authors. They acquire very few traditionally published books, too. This new venue is not going to change that situation.


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## Deborahsmith author (Jul 23, 2013)

August Wainwright said:


> Absolutely. But, during this initial beta period, it will be to a slightly lesser degree than ya/new adult/adult fiction. That is entirely based on the desires of the libraries we're working with at this time.
> 
> Overall, though, children's books - especially those written by indies and small press pubs - have an extremely difficult time catching on and they're a great fit for public and school libraries.


Ditto. Libraries almost NEVER acquire JV fiction that hasn't been reviewed by School Library Journal or other notable industry sources for JV books.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Deborahsmith author said:


> Libraries are strapped for acquisition money. They're not going to invest much money (or time) in searching through herds of unknown authors (whose books are not being requested by patrons);


Agreed. Which is why we're offering an entire, vetted catalog that will integrate with the library's catalog, will be owned forever by the library, and can be bought inexpensively with one-click.

No searching for titles. No ongoing licensing fees. No restrictive DRM or proprietary format. No having to buy titles one at a time. No losing those titles if the format changes, or if the library changes its AIP.

We're approaching libraries and saying, "Here is a catalog of 2000 ebooks. They've sold millions of copies on Amazon. They're yours, forever, without any license restrictions. We'll help you integrate them into your system and lend them to your patrons. And they're cheaper than anything you're buying anywhere else."

The idea is to do the curation so libraries can spend their time, and money, helping patrons in other ways. EAF's titles have already proven successful; indies account for 1/3 of all ebooks sold, and we're offering the big names and the bright up and comers.

The library market is very different than the consumer market. Libraries aren't browsing Amazon, searching for a book to read. They want to acquire many different titles, easily and cheaply, that a cross-section of their patrons will enjoy.


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## MTM (Aug 9, 2011)

I still have not heard my fate. Waiting anxiously with fingers crossed.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

MTM said:


> I still have not heard my fate. Waiting anxiously with fingers crossed.


No need to wait anxiously or cross fingers. If you aren't accepted this time, you will be eventually.

Our business model is going to change, and our plan is to take all comers.

But before that happens, we need a core catalog, and we need to start selling that to libraries and build a rep in the industry. We need to roll out our app. We need to tweak our API so it plays well with everyone.

Then we'll launch phase two, and start accepting a lot more titles. It will be less about vetting for libraries, and more about allowing library patrons to do their own vetting, like customers do on Amazon.

EbooksAreForever isn't meant to be an exclusionary club. It needs to be exclusionary for a while, for libraries to catch up with the tech we're planning to unroll. But the end goal is to be one-stop-shopping for all libraries in the world to have unlimited access to all ebooks in the world.

We have a looooong way to go before we get there. So being told we can't use your titles right now isn't a true rejection; it's only a delay.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Deborahsmith author said:


> Libraries are strapped for acquisition money. They're not going to invest much money (or time) in searching through herds of unknown authors (whose books are not being requested by patrons); books that have no source credentials that librarians routinely use to justify a purchase i.e. Library Journal, School Library Journal, and other major reviewers. They're already swamped with choices that DO have those credentials.
> 
> Librarians are not prejudiced against indie authors. They acquire very few traditionally published books, too. This new venue is not going to change that situation.


The problem for libraries is that trad publishers are hostile and often charge them exorbitant fees for limited licences.

Penguin Random House, for example, offer a perpetual licence for their ebooks, but charge 3 to 4 times the hardcover price to purchase, while Harper Collins offers their books at, or below, hardcover price, but each book has a limit of 26 borrows before the licence must be renewed.

Indie books are very low cost, most are high quality (even trad publishers are grudgingly accepting this) and they offer a perpetual licence that, under this model, can be used by multiple patrons at the same time (other publisher, including indie aggregators, allow one borrow at a time per licence).

Indie published literature *will* become a mainstay in libraries in the fullness of time because they provide very good literature at a very low price. With his profile, Joe may be able to make the fullness of time come about earlier.

Smashwords already has most of their premium catalog on Overdrive (and Axis 360, and have a Library direct program), so getting into the system is not a problem for indies. We are at the last hurdle and now just need to get into the actual libraries.

Ebooks are still new and the industry is still evolving. Eventually, the distinction between paper and electronic books will fade, but until that time comes, we need people like Joe to spread the word to anyone who will listen, and even to some that won't.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

Deborahsmith author said:


> So . . . this business will help authors offer their work to libraries for free or for a very small one-time payment?


Not sure I understand what you're asking here. Absolutely ZERO of the ebooks we'll be carrying will be free. All authors will earn 70% royalties on sales made into libraries. Can you clarify your question?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Deborahsmith author said:


> So . . . this business will help authors offer their work to libraries for free or for a very small one-time payment? And the ebooks will not be DRM protected?
> 
> This will only make money -- and earn new readers -- for a handful of authors. The rest will be selling out for zippo, AND opening their ebooks to a whole new avenue for piracy.


Getting your ebooks into libraries provides people who want to read them for free with a safe and legal way of doing so. Libraries could well become an anti-piracy influence. Currently, their ebook offerings are too limited and inconvenient to function that way. Maybe EAF could change that. Who'd want to risk picking up malware from a torrent site if your local library were just as easy to use and had as large a selection?


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## Felix R. Savage (Mar 3, 2011)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Our business model is going to change, and our plan is to take all comers.


I also emailed you expressing interest. Very excited about this project! Haven't heard back from you yet, so plz let me know if I should resend the details of my titles. Happy to help out in any way I can.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

My college age daughter and her friends are huge library readers, and regularly ask the library to buy books that they find on Amazon but are not in the library's Overdrive catalog.  My books ended up in several libraries that way, and I'm sure other independent authors have had the same thing happen.

Getting in the library's catalog is a good thing.

I'm completely for this project and all that it stands for - the initial vetting process included, even though I can practically guarantee that my books will not be included...

I'm still 100% in favor of the effort.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

August Wainwright said:


> Not sure I understand what you're asking here. Absolutely ZERO of the ebooks we'll be carrying will be free. All authors will earn 70% royalties on sales made into libraries. Can you clarify your question?


On the blog, you state: "EbooksAreForever distributes to libraries at $7.99 for full length novels, and $3.99-$4.99 for shorter works. "

But on ebooksareforever, it says, "All of our titles are currently priced at $4.99 for novels, and $1.99-$2.99 for shorter works." http://ebooksareforever.com/support/libraries

Am I missing something, or is this an oversight?


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

@Rayven T Hill

Good catch. Just an oversight from an earlier FAQ that hadn't been updated yet. Updated now. Thanks.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

August Wainwright said:


> @Rayven T Hill
> 
> Good catch. Just an oversight from an earlier FAQ that hadn't been updated yet. Updated now. Thanks.


Great. And I see you've updated the price of my books from $4.99 to $7.99 as well.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm not getting how you eventually will include ALL ebooks. No curation at all. Won't that destroy the model you are building? How will that work?

Philip


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2015)

I really hope this succeeds because it sounds like a wonderful (and needed) service. But I do think basing participation on AMAZON reviews and sales misses the mark. Amazon targets a specific demographic and type of buyer who often does not frequent libraries. A demographic that will often be at the polar opposite end of the scale for a library system's patronage. The demographic that shops a lot on Amazon is not the same demographic that goes to libraries.

Just a random example, you have a book like The Lesser Dead, which won multiple awards including a ALA Best Horror of the Year. But is only has 36 reviews and a sales rank of over 260,000. In standard KB parlance, that makes it a poor seller. Go through a lot of the recent RUSA winners, and many of them aren't considered big sellers on Amazon. But libraries love these titles.

I unfortunately don't have a good answer that doesn't require a lot of actual manpower. It might be worthwhile to see if you can actually get some librarians involved if you have already had communications with some. Maybe even a volunteer program where librarians that assist with curating get the collection free for their library. Not only would it help with curating, but having actual librarians involve can only help increase the prestige of the service once it is going.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

@Julie



Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> But I do think basing participation on AMAZON reviews and sales misses the mark. Amazon targets a specific demographic and type of buyer who often does not frequent libraries.
> 
> It might be worthwhile to see if you can actually get some librarians involved if you have already had communications with some. Maybe even a volunteer program where librarians that assist with curating get the collection free for their library. Not only would it help with curating, but having actual librarians involve can only help increase the prestige of the service once it is going.


Reviews and sales are only a small portion of what dictates inclusion at this point. I think people grab onto reviews because they're the single most quantifiable aspect, but that's also the reason reviews aren't the only thing we look at. So I agree with your point about the book you highlighted. From an earlier post:

_Overall, there are various factors that go into the curation process, of which number of reviews, number of titles, whether your books are in a series, estimated sales figures, cover art, book description, current genre saturation, library interest, and overall availability are just a few.
_
And, as for bringing libraries into the curation process, that's exactly what we've begun testing and hope to rollout in full later this year. It's human, which means it's going to be very difficult to scale, but we have plans to do exactly that.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2015)

August Wainwright said:


> @*****
> 
> Reviews and sales are only a small portion of what dictates inclusion at this point. I think people grab onto reviews because they're the single most quantifiable aspect, but that's also the reason reviews aren't the only thing we look at. So I agree with your point about the book you highlighted. From an earlier post:
> 
> ...


Sounds awesome. I just get twitchy whenever I see Amazon reviews as a perceived requirement for everything.


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## RipleyKing (Mar 5, 2013)

And what about those real-time sales stats? Do we get a dashboard? What?


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

RipleyKing said:


> And what about those real-time sales stats? Do we get a dashboard? What?


Yes, every author/publisher account comes with full sales data. We're also working to build in-depth reporting features that will bring authors closer to library patrons than ever before. Giving authors and publishers access to that data is important to us. It's our belief that library patrons may very well behave different than consumers, and thus different marketing strategies may work better or worse. We also want to share the patron experience with the library (which is what they've asked for) so how and what data is made available to authors is a top priority.


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

Philip Gibson said:


> I'm not getting how you eventually will include ALL ebooks. No curation at all. Won't that destroy the model you are building? How will that work?
> 
> Philip


I'm curious about this, too.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Received my very polity rejection email today, as expected.

Unknown author, published first book in December 2014, second in February 2015.  Only 5 reviews on Amazon, 7 on Goodreads, a few scattered around other sites.  Slow but steady sales.

I am not surprised.

I think my next blog post will be about the Catch-22 of being a new self-published author.


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## RipleyKing (Mar 5, 2013)

> Received my very polity rejection email today, as expected.
> 
> Unknown author, published first book in December 2014, second in February 2015. Only 5 reviews on Amazon, 7 on Goodreads, a few scattered around other sites. Slow but steady sales.
> 
> ...


Don't feel bad. The quality of the content is more important to us, and to our readers. You should read my latest blog post.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2015)

RipleyKing said:



> Don't feel bad. The quality of the content is more important to us, and to our readers. You should read my latest blog post.


I read your blog post and to your request I say: I don't support your blogging and therefore I have not bought your book.

In regards to some writers being excluded from the first round, I say: when the marines storm a beach, their numbers don't include the ---, the very --- or the ---. They have a place under the sun, surely, but not during the first wave.

I find it somewhat amusing to read the attempts to bully, browbeat or even shame Joe Konrath into allowing some to join the first wave. Just because you're not part of the first wave, doesn't mean it's ok to grab a machinegun and try and mow down the ones, who are in the first wave. I hope Konrath doesn't listen. It's not about individual indies at the moment. It's about establishing an indie presence in the library system of America.

PS: KU is a mess at the moment and alternative sales channels are always good to have.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

RipleyKing said:


> Don't feel bad. The quality of the content is more important to us, and to our readers. You should read my latest blog post.


I don't feel bad. Honestly. I did not expect to be accepted, but I had to try 

I seriously hope this effort is wildly successful. My sales are climbing slowly, and it will only be a matter of time before readers are asking for my books at the library


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Philip Gibson said:


> I'm not getting how you eventually will include ALL ebooks. No curation at all. Won't that destroy the model you are building? How will that work?


It's a good and fair question.

Our model is meant to change as the market evolves. Our short term goals follow the basic framework of how the industry currently functions.

Our longterm goals involve innovating within the industry to introduce new ways for libraries and their patrons to access our catalog. That's really all we can say about it at this point.

I know that I may sound cryptic, but until we've established ourselves as a player in this market, we're not going to reveal longterm strategies. We have competition. Letting them know our business plan serves no purpose.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Sounds awesome. I just get twitchy whenever I see Amazon reviews as a perceived requirement for everything.


I agree.

As we mentioned upthread, we want to do the opposite of what Bookbub does. They've become more restrictive with requirements over time.

Our goal is to become less restrictive over time, invite more people to the party, and share the wealth.

This has always been a big deal with me. No one helped me get published, and I struggled. When I finally broke into the industry, I saw how wasteful and archaic and one-sided it was. I've tried to learn all I could, and pass that along so other authors could benefit. So others wouldn't have to struggle as much as I did.

I finally reached a point where I believed the system was no longer satisfactory for authors' needs. The only way to fix the industry flaws I perceived was to start my own business and do it myself.

I want every writer to be able to reach every reader on the planet, and I want every person on the planet to have access to ebooks.

EbooksAreForever is my first salvo. There will be others.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

thewitt said:


> I think my next blog post will be about the Catch-22 of being a new self-published author.


There has always been that Catch-22. When I was new, it was "You can't get published without an agent, but you can't get an agent unless you're published."

It will be considerably easier, and take considerably less time, for your ebooks to get into EAF than it took me to find a publisher.

We don't have an ETA yet. All we've done has taken longer to do than we anticipated. If we rejected you, follow our progress and watch for when we make an announcement that we are actively seeking submissions to expand our catalog, and we're re-evaluating titles we previously passed on.

Dunno when that will happen. But it WILL happen. And when it does, you WILL hear about it.

I'm not shy when it comes to getting the word out.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

drno said:


> I find it somewhat amusing to read the attempts to bully, browbeat or even shame Joe Konrath into allowing some to join the first wave. Just because you're not part of the first wave, doesn't mean it's ok to grab a machinegun and try and mow down the ones, who are in the first wave. I hope Konrath doesn't listen. It's not about individual indies at the moment. It's about establishing an indie presence in the library system of America.


I listen to everyone.

Listening doesn't mean I agree, but I do register authors' concerns. August and I are authors. We don't like rejection, or being excluded.

I just did a long post about copyright reform.

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2015/03/on-copyright-again.html

TLR - My stance on copyright reform, if implemented, could likely mean I'd make less money. I'm against laws I find to be unfair, even though those same laws are making me rich. Because I feel it is for the common good.

I feel EbooksAreForever is for the common good. For libraries, for readers, and for authors.

Being elitist isn't good. It sucks. I don't like gatekeepers.

But if you want to win in baseball, it means some players will play, and some will be stuck on the bench for a bit. For us to get a toehold in this industry, we have to launch with a vetted catalog that we believe represents our strongest chance at success. It doesn't mean the benched players are unwanted; they'll play eventually.

Amazon reviews and ranking are imprecise indicators of quality. We know this. We're doing our best to factor this into our judgement process.


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## scribblr (Aug 20, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> There has always been that Catch-22. When I was new, it was "You can't get published without an agent, but you can't get an agent unless you're published."


I didn't believe that one because it would have meant that no author would ever get published, but I did listen to: 'If you self-publish, no publisher or agent in the world will ever touch your work.' That's why I ignored self-publishing opportunities for so long. Amusingly, it was after I self-published that trads and agents began offering me contracts to publish my books or represent me.

I sent you an email expressing my interest in the EAF last month but haven't heard back so I guess you're not interested in my work at this time. I wish you and August outstanding success in your efforts to break down another Indie author barrier.


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## lvcabbie (Jun 11, 2011)

Just curious. How long do you take to sort through and reply to applications to join?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Usually, the process is fast, within 24 hours.

But we've gotten a lot of requests, and they continue to come in, so it is taking over a week. Apologies.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

My guess is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're going to let library patrons access the catalog directly. 

If the library already has the book licence, then the patron will be able to borrow it right away. If not, they can request the library buy a licence (remember this is a cheap, perpetual, multi-user licence that I'm sure libraries will grow to love).



*must stop editing post....must stop editing...must*


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> My guess is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're going to let library patrons access the catalog directly.


Right. When the patron apps (on iOS, to be followed by various Android builds) are available after we fully launch, patrons will be interacting with the purchased collection directly. We'll have various ways for the patron to interact with books that both have, and have not, been purchased by their library.


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Dear Joe
I sent in an email on March 26 asking for five of my eBooks to be included and haven't heard back anything yet. Should I resend the email? I've been published since 1984 (writing since 1972) and have had 22 novels published...15 are still with a publisher and I begin getting their rights back in May 2015, but five are eligible since I self-published them (thanks to your blog). I'm interested in submitting these five eBooks of mine. Three dinosaur thrillers and two murder mysteries. You can find them here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3AKathryn+Meyer+Griffith&keywords=Kathryn+Meyer+Griffith&ie=UTF8&qid=1398959191 Thank you, author Kathryn Meyer Griffith [email protected]


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

What about books in KU? If they're available on your site are they violating Selects T&C as they are technically for sale elsewhere?
Great job, best of luck!


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

Yeah! My three Dinosaur Lake books were just approved and I accepted, got PayPal (for the first time ever) and uploaded all three (hope I did it all right)...thanks Joe and August! I can't wait to see how this new venture unfolds. This is all so exciting! Just like my self-publishing adventure has been since I began it in 2012. Always so much to learn and so much more to learn. I am also feeling very grateful to Joe and KBoards and all the great help I've received along the way of my self-publishing journey. I couldn't have done all I've done without KBoards and everyone's help! THANK YOU ALL!


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2015)

1) This is a good idea: I know that I may sound cryptic, but until we've established ourselves as a player in this market, we're not going to reveal longterm strategies. We have competition. Letting them know our business plan serves no purpose.

Keep things close to your chest. Lots of big fish keeping an eye out to see what you do.

2) Tip of the Hat for this:

As we mentioned upthread, we want to do the opposite of what Bookbub does. They've become more restrictive with requirements over time.

Our goal is to become less restrictive over time, invite more people to the party, and share the wealth.

This has always been a big deal with me. No one helped me get published, and I struggled. When I finally broke into the industry, I saw how wasteful and archaic and one-sided it was. I've tried to learn all I could, and pass that along so other authors could benefit. So others wouldn't have to struggle as much as I did.

I finally reached a point where I believed the system was no longer satisfactory for authors' needs. The only way to fix the industry flaws I perceived was to start my own business and do it myself. 

I want every writer to be able to reach every reader on the planet, and I want every person on the planet to have access to ebooks. 

EbooksAreForever is my first salvo. There will be others.


*****
a) The aim should be to help more and more authors, not less and less.

b) The only way for the broken system to be fixed is by authors (ideal) or by someone who treats authors with fairness (hard to see who that'll be).

If you think about it, a system where you have to advertise for people to find your book, is fundamentally broken. There should be Discoverability so readers can find good books and good authors AUTOMATICALLY, not based on who is the best marketer or has the most money.

c) This is a worthy and honorable goal: I want every writer to be able to reach every reader on the planet, and I want every person on the planet to have access to ebooks. 

Best of luck!


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## Karin Kaufman (Jan 9, 2011)

Kathryn Meyer Griffith said:


> I sent in an email on March 26...


I'm a little confused. I thought we were supposed to register, not send an email (unless we were asked for clarification). Have I got that wrong? All I did was register.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Karin Kaufman said:


> I'm a little confused. I thought we were supposed to register, not send an email (unless we were asked for clarification). Have I got that wrong? All I did was register.


I emailed and registered. Joe and co replied about a week later and asked me to upload certain series.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Karin Kaufman said:


> I'm a little confused. I thought we were supposed to register, not send an email (unless we were asked for clarification). Have I got that wrong? All I did was register.


Registering is all you need to do. We're just very behind in responding.


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## Karin Kaufman (Jan 9, 2011)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Registering is all you need to do. We're just very behind in responding.


Thanks, Joe! I know you must be swamped.


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## Deborahsmith author (Jul 23, 2013)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Agreed. Which is why we're offering an entire, vetted catalog that will integrate with the library's catalog, will be owned forever by the library, and can be bought inexpensively with one-click.
> 
> No searching for titles. No ongoing licensing fees. No restrictive DRM or proprietary format. No having to buy titles one at a time. No losing those titles if the format changes, or if the library changes its AIP.
> 
> ...


As an author and small press publisher, I've sold books to libraries for 25 years. I know the challenges and I've sat with librarians at ALA events, discussing the details. Konrath is throwing a catalog of mostly obscure titles at them that will make little to NO money for the authors who are desperate to get into the library system. Librarians will ignore them. So will most patrons. Discoverability will continue to be the Waterloo that most authors can't survive. Konrath will make money with this business, but it will do little to benefit anyone besides him and the best known of the indie authors, while opening the doors to ebook piracy on a scale far greater than now and further de-valuing books in our marketplace.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Deborahsmith author said:


> As an author and small press publisher, I've sold books to libraries for 25 years. I know the challenges and I've sat with librarians at ALA events, discussing the details. Konrath is throwing a catalog of mostly obscure titles at them that will make little to NO money for the authors who are desperate to get into the library system. Librarians will ignore them. So will most patrons. Discoverability will continue to be the Waterloo that most authors can't survive. Konrath will make money with this business, but it will do little to benefit anyone besides him and the best known of the indie authors, while opening the doors to ebook piracy on a scale far greater than now and further de-valuing books in our marketplace.


Once you start mentioning piracy and devaluing books, you can no longer hide your agenda. Those are the two most tired scare tactics in the industry, not just against Konrath, or against Amazon, but against all ebooks in general. (You won't get far on kboards bringing up 10-year-old arguments that have already been ignored).

What exactly are you warning authors about? From my perspective, there's a new potential revenue stream. It might make money. It might not. It might make a lot. It might make a little. But there's no loss here. That's like warning all but "the best known indie authors" not to list on B&N because they won't make money there.

It might be true, but where's the harm?


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## GoneToWriterSanctum (Sep 13, 2014)

I do not accept VerticalScope's Terms Of Service on Kboards, and have asked for my account to be deleted, along with all of my posts.

If you are here as a result of a Google search, _*leave now*_. The owners of this site are interested only in your possible ad revenue.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Just a note to say we're still going through submissions. It's taking much longer than we expected.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

I applied 3/31 and heard back yesterday, so it looks like it's running less than two weeks. Not bad, IMO, given the onslaught.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

How did I  miss this? I'll be throwing some your way. Thanks.


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## Windvein (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, as a point of data, I'll admit I was rejected. Congrats to everyone who made it in. I'd be curious to know how many titles they'll be offering initially.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey Joe,
Nothing to offer you but best wishes and good luck.  
cin


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Just a note to say we're still going through submissions. It's taking much longer than we expected.


I got my rejection e-mail.Thank you very much.


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## Deborahsmith author (Jul 23, 2013)

August Wainwright said:


> Not sure I understand what you're asking here. Absolutely ZERO of the ebooks we'll be carrying will be free. All authors will earn 70% royalties on sales made into libraries. Can you clarify your question?
> [/quote
> 
> 
> ...


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I submitted over a month ago, I think when this thread was 2 pages long, and I just received an email detailing they would like part of my catalog. I think that's a lot less about me being me and more about the genre I write in always being a hot borrow at the library.  But just wanted to share that they are still working through requests.

I think this system will eventually work well for all involved. For me the single author publisher, I get access to a readership that Julie rightly points out, still isn't Amazonified.  But I also know from running a reader group more and more readers ARE using their library system to get ebooks on their devices. They DO get frustrated when libraries don't have a book, especially a top indie they are hearing about all over their social media groups, and they also get frustrated when they have to "wait in line" for a digital product which makes NO SENSE at all. 

I look forward to the day in a few years when I'm ready to shop for publishers for my non-JAFF historical fiction that I can say "I have X titles in Y library systems across the US." thanks to EAF. At this point, I could care less if I make a dime from the library. And as my books are already pirated on sites in exchange for virtual currency in a video game, I'm okay with that, too, if it should happen. LOL And if EAF never takes off (not doubting Joe and his team, just the nature of startups in general), I won't regret contributing what I can to the collective to help the path be easier for all in 5 to 10 years.


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## jaxspenser (Aug 17, 2014)

I just applied today... crossing my fingers on getting into a great endeavor!

Cheers,

Jax
141


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I just got an email informing me...



> This is a notification to inform you that the books you've added to eBooksAreForever.com are now available to patrons of Califa Library Group.
> We are focused on providing as many great books, to as many library patrons, as we possibly can. So if you have more books you can add to the collection, please do. And if you've already added your entire catalog, then we'll say thank you and we look forward to spreading your stories to readers nationwide.


At the start, I was informed I should add my Merkiaari Wars series. This email now seems to ask me to add the rest of my books in my other series. Anyone else doing that?


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## jenminkman (Mar 2, 2013)

I got that email too! Nice to know we're side by side in the same library, Mark  I went back to my dashboard and added a new book in a series I recently finished writing. Since they bought the first two, they might be back to buy Book 3 later!


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## nightfire (Mar 22, 2012)

Jack Kilborn said:


> My fallback plan is I pull my ebooks from KDP Select, and then blog about it. That's the limit of what I can do.
> 
> I'll never be able to compete with Amazon, or offer what Amazon can offer. But I can focus on areas Amazon doesn't care about. Innovation interests me. If I ever make a business decision based on fear, I shouldn't be trusted to run a company.
> 
> ...


Excellent attitude. Will share this with our authors as well. I am a little behind the eight ball and wasn't aware of this until Shawn Inmon recently mentioned it!


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## LG Castillo (Jun 28, 2012)

I got the email too! They bought my entire catalog.







Off to write more books!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I just got an email informing me...
> 
> At the start, I was informed I should add my Merkiaari Wars series. This email now seems to ask me to add the rest of my books in my other series. Anyone else doing that?


I only put up the one series they requested, but now it does sound as if they want everything. So one of my projects for this weekend is getting the other ones up there.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I've uploaded 3 of my 4 series. If I get told off, I'll know not to do the fourth  I just checked payments tab too. I have royalties!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2015)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I've uploaded 3 of my 4 series. If I get told off, I'll know not to do the fourth  I just checked payments tab too. I have royalties!


Will you share with us how much you were paid and how many libraries bought your books?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

drno said:


> Will you share with us how much you were paid and how many libraries bought your books?


Looks like novels are $5.59 and shorts are $2.79. That's for one order. Based on the email we got, my _guess_ is that that order covers many of the libraries in California. This is what Wikipedia says about the Califa Library Group:



> The Califa Library Group is a not for profit membership cooperative serving libraries and information organizations in California.
> 
> Established in 2004 with LSTA funding from the California State Library, Califa collaborates with members and provides leadership for cooperative negotiations to help ensure that members receive quality information resources. With over 220 members, including most of the public libraries, Califa is the largest library network in California.
> 
> Califa's membership includes all sizes and types of libraries -- academic, research, public, school, corporate, medical, law, and special. A Board of Directors, elected by and from the membership, governs Califa, which is based in San Mateo, California with an office in Los Angeles.


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## lvcabbie (Jun 11, 2011)

I guess if we don't get a reply, we've been rejected.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

lvcabbie said:


> I guess if we don't get a reply, we've been rejected.


When I applied, it took about three weeks to get an answer. They were sending replies to everyone, so far as I could tell.


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2016)

Is anyone making money with Joe Konrath's Library company? How much have you made in the past year from this platform? Thank you for any updates!!!


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

drno said:


> Is anyone making money with Joe Konrath's Library company? How much have you made in the past year from this platform? Thank you for any updates!!!


Nope.

I had one pay day soon after it went live, then silence.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Nope.
> 
> I had one pay day soon after it went live, then silence.


I sent them an application over six months ago and have never received any reply (was supposed to be within 2 weeks).


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Nope.
> 
> I had one pay day soon after it went live, then silence.


Ditto. Pity as it seemed like there was lots of momentum at the time, but all has since slowed (at least as far as we know)


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## A Dark Path (Aug 24, 2015)

Am I interpreting this correctly? The author gets a one-off payment everytime a library (or area group of) picks up a copy of his/her book, and then that book is forever in the system -- with no further financial benefit to the author(s), yes? Or am I missing something?

Edit: I just realized how long ago this thread started.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Interesting.  A week or so ago someone who is part of an author group I'm in mentioned that he was on a panel that included someone who buys for libraries and the person was raving about EbooksAreForever and how their subscribers are reading self-pub books at a rate of 44:1 over trade published.  But I guess once they buy that one copy of the book, that's it for the author?


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2016)

Is the company still alive?


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Libraries are going to be a hard nut to crack for self-published authors, so we should cut folk who are trying a little slack. 

Librarians have to be very careful about how they spend their every dwindling resources, and taking a gamble on a bunch of (as they see us) wild eyed amateurs is not the path to job security. Indie published books will need to be far more mainstream before librarians start to seriously consider adding self-pubbed books to their collections. But when it finally happens, look out. Indie books are far cheaper to acquire than trad published ebooks, and don't have ridiculously restrictive clauses attached to their licensing agreements (such as being restricted to just 24 borrows before the license expires!).


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I sold one set of books there last June. Nothing moving since. I think they may have given up.


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