# Who hates self-promoting? Here's a healthy alternative...



## markobeezy (Jan 30, 2012)

I absolutely abhor self-promoting. I've now written 3 books and 1 short story and all of my family/friends/coworkers are always saying, "Mark, you need to promote your books! Get on websites, social media, visit bookstores..etc.."

The problem is, who likes to self-promote? Don't you feel like a total douchebag for telling people (essentially demanding their money) that your book is worth their time? Shouldn't they make that decision on their own without feeling intimidated or begged or pestered? I don't know, maybe it's just me. I definitely know that I can't just sell my books to my family and friends, partially because it feels like you're constantly "hustling" them for their money. Those kinds of dynamics can ruin an otherwise healthy relationship.

For 2013, I've resolved to just write and write write write write until people (or big publishing companies) are pursuing _me_. I'm done resembling one of those fools out in the parking lot trying to sell CD's out of his trunk to anyone who walks by. Or how about that guy who approached people while they are pumping their gas and asks them for money in exchange for pumping their gas/wiping windshields/airing up their tires.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm planning on getting into more group promotions, at least I don't feel stupid marketing work from people I know and who I think rock  Makes me feel a lot better than just marketing my own stuff.


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## bnapier (Apr 26, 2010)

Yeah, I hate self promotion, too. I keep hearing that the more titles you have available, the better your chances of "making it" become.  Maybe that's the ticket.  And if so, best of luck to you!


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## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

Hate self promotion and apparently suck at it. I'm also just planning on writing more stuff, and tweet/fcebook announce it so my dozens of followers and hope for the best.


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## Ian Fraser (Mar 8, 2011)

Same. I find it very difficult to change gears from 'writing mode' into 'sell my titles!' mode. 

I mainly just keep on writing and adding to the supply of works I have online, awaiting the glorious day of either being 'discovered' - or until some bright spark gets the idea to offer PR services for those of us who suck at self promoting...


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Ian Fraser said:


> or until some bright spark gets the idea to offer PR services for those of us who suck at self promoting...


This 
Of course, it's easier to just whip up an affiliate site and hustle freebies.

However, how many of us would make it worthwhile for such an entrepreneur? We've cut loose from agents and publicists - are we now realizing that we do need to spend money on PR? It may become necessary for some of us who'd rather just write.


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

I totally agree. I hate self-promotion and I'm very bad at it.  So what's an author to do?  I have two self-published ebooks that were doing OK when I was able to do the shameless thing, posting regularly on amazon discussions. Now that author self-promotion is banned on amazon, I'm selling just a handful a month.  In the meantime, I've written another novel, of which I'm very fond (who of us isn't fond of our progeny?) But I can't muster the energy to put it in ebook form, knowing that if I'm lucky, I'll probably only sell a handful.  I truly admire those who really go to bat for their books.  But for me, it's just very frustrating.


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## gljones (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm with everybody else on here, I seriously despise self-promotion and have done very little of that.  I've been lucky enough to get to a modest level of sales without feeling like a used car salesman and for that I'm grateful.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

THANK YOU.

This has been my plan from the very beginning--and hey, something's working, because I'm selling books.  Not enough to live on (yet), but sales are growing.  In fact, they're up an order of magnitude from this month last year.

Best of luck!


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## markobeezy (Jan 30, 2012)

Wow. I'm blown away by these responses. I was expecting a lot of...

"If you wanna make money, you better get some attention!" (My dad's tone)

"Don't be lazy! Marketing is part of being an author! You can't just _write_ and expect to be successful!" (Successful author from 1970's tone)

"You don't even _want_ to be an author" (Successful, shrill female romance author) (No offense ladies, some of you are wonderful authors)

Thanks ya'll for commisserating with me on this one! Hopefully we can all just keep racking up the novels and getting the kind of attention we really want! (monetary) Lol j/k but not really!


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm another one that hates self-promotion.  I don't mind blogging because it's something I've been doing for years anyway and my writing blog is more a collection of ideas for me as a marketing tool.  

I have the added problem that I feel my writing kind of slips between the cracks - too much sex for family-friendly sites, too little for the pure erotica ones.  

On the other hand, while I think word of mouth is the best form of marketing, even if you write the best book ever... or a whole raft of them, who is going to spread that word of mouth if you are stuck at the back end of the Amazon rankings?  

The group promotion idea sounds awesome.  Definitely easier to push someone else's work plus I think it holds more weight coming from someone else.  Just need to find my group.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

kathrynoh said:


> The group promotion idea sounds awesome. Definitely easier to push someone else's work plus I think it holds more weight coming from someone else. Just need to find my group.


I found a lot of people through twitter (as a reader first usually) and through going from blog to blog with interesting subjects.


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

Yep, another loather of self promotion here. Can't do it for the life of me. 

I think I have the same plan as you....write, write, write.

I'm bringing out two new stories in different genres so hopefully that will generate some new sales!


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## Mari Biella (May 10, 2012)

I _hate _ promoting my own book, and I'm useless at it anyway. Promotion, in my experience at least, exercises a completely different set of muscles to those you use when you're writing - muscles that, in my case, are very undeveloped!

I think that some kind of group promo or, less formally, authors just helping each other out - not by shilling or spamming on one another's behalf, but just supporting one another - is an attractive alternative. And of course, there's really no substitute for just keeping on writing to the highest of your ability and hoping for the best. Perhaps I'm being unduly optimistic, but I like to think that if your books are good then there's a fair chance that they'll get noticed anyway, sooner or later.


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## Catana (Mar 27, 2012)

I don't write for a mass market, so the kind of promotion that's supposed to be so necessary just wouldn't work for me -- even if I were inclined that way. To Donna Callea, I have to say, just keep going. December was a "good" month for me, with 22 sales between two novels and two stories. I've had worse months and better months, but I'm commited to writing, and improving my writing, whether it sells or doesn't.

My main "self-promotion" is my writing blog. I think that brings me a new reader every now and then, but mostly, it's valuable for the opportunity it gives me to think out loud and for the discussions with other writers that help me keep going, even through difficult times. I comment on blogs, when it makes sense. And that's pretty much it. I do keep looking for ways to promote that will fit my reclusive temperament, and new opportunities are always appearing. The most important thing is the writing. The second is being alert for new ways to engage with potential readers. Experiment. Try out new sites. Discard what doesn't work or isn't worth your time. Keep writing.


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

Catana said:


> I don't write for a mass market, so the kind of promotion that's supposed to be so necessary just wouldn't work for me -- even if I were inclined that way. To Donna Callea, I have to say, just keep going. December was a "good" month for me, with 22 sales between two novels and two stories. I've had worse months and better months, but I'm commited to writing, and improving my writing, whether it sells or doesn't.
> 
> My main "self-promotion" is my writing blog. I think that brings me a new reader every now and then, but mostly, it's valuable for the opportunity it gives me to think out loud and for the discussions with other writers that help me keep going, even through difficult times. I comment on blogs, when it makes sense. And that's pretty much it. I do keep looking for ways to promote that will fit my reclusive temperament, and new opportunities are always appearing. The most important thing is the writing. The second is being alert for new ways to engage with potential readers. Experiment. Try out new sites. Discard what doesn't work or isn't worth your time. Keep writing.


Great advice. Thanks.


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## edmjill (Dec 19, 2012)

As much as I hate self-promotion, it's a necessary evil.  Whenever I take a time-out from it, I find myself worrying...  I'm really not sure how effective it is, though, but I know that NOT doing any of it will mean less awareness, so I chug along. 

As someone else mentioned above, group promotions are a great idea (as long as you have a good team).


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## T. B. Crattie (Aug 6, 2012)

It seems that the prevailing paradigm for a successful indie writer is to write a whole lot of books (shorts, novellas) in a popular genre (romance, erotica, YA, sci-fi, horror). Then self-promote like crazy in all types of ways (Facebook, blogs, mailing lists, GoodReads, Library Thing, etc.) that build "relationships" with readers.

I'm afraid I have a problem with making a goal of churning out product. I just can't see how there can be real quality at such huge rates of production. (Of course I could be wrong; I often am.) I think the indie ebook market has the reputation of being glutted with books (shorts, novellas) of rather low quality. On the other hand, it seems, there are a lot of indie authors who are successful with following the paradigm. And more power to them. People are buying and reading their work.

A person can only do what he or she is comfortable with. I'm hopelessly old-fashioned. I'm going to turn out a book a year, the best one I can do. I'll probably continue with doing a blog to help with promotion because I enjoy it. It gives me a chance to put up some of the pictures I've taken at remote locations in the British isles and to link to small regional Brit papers that I enjoy reading.

And I would like to point out that my own personal paradigm of writing and promoting has not exactly been what a reasonable person would call "successful" in terms of selling books. (So far.)

(I would also like to point out that Sir Richard Branson began his Virgin empire by selling used vinyl out of the trunk of his car. )


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## JHarte (Jul 10, 2012)

Maybe the problem is how you're looking at it. Self-promo sounds conceited, but it's true that if you don't tell people about your books, no one can buy them. In my mind, marketing is about matching consumers with what they want. If you know your market, hang out where it hangs out and have what it wants, then marketing isn't so bad. Also, instead of you tooting your horn, you can find others to toot for you. Referrals carry much more weight than just about any other type of marketing. My beta readers are a big help in this area. 

I'm still new at the whole thing, but my focus has been on cultivating "fans" through social networking, blogging and a newsletter. Plus with KDP Selects free days, you can get your book in front of a lot of people. Once that happens, my goal is to encourage them to connect with me, give feedback etc. It's a slow process, but readers do like to feel accessible to authors. I've asked my followers (and I don't have many yet, but they are engaging) about story ideas, cover feedback, and more. I've also given them free stuff.


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

While everyone here is looking, I'd like to point out that every one of my books is worth your time and money. Especially the most expensive one. I'd check them all out if I were you.


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## Keith Blenman (May 31, 2009)

Total agreement here. I've been posting blogs, tweeting, updating my facebook page, and pushing my latest book in all the forums I can find. It really doesn't seem worth it. A few years ago every forum post or discussion would pretty consistently lead to sales. In the Book Bazaar here, my threads would be on the first page for a couple of days regardless of whether or not somebody commented. Now it seems as though there are so many of us doing these same things that it's progressively more difficult to catch the attention of potential readers. I also work and am going back to school for the third time. So I'm sure like many of you, I'm busy as it is without all the promotion stuff. I also keep second guessing myself. "Is it the book description? The book cover? Am I not doing something other authors are? What's their secret?" I still definitely prefer writing and publishing this way over sending out manuscripts and getting rejection letters or no response at all. At least like this people are actually able to see my work. I just wish I could reach that point where they'd tell each other to read my stuff instead of me having to broadcast it all the time.


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## whatdanwrote (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm definitely going to write more. I have my book in Select, and it seems silly with one book. At least if you have two, the people who get it for free might buy the other. I'm also going to put up my second book on wattpad.com. I'm more interested in writing than self-promoting (who isn't), and I figured it's another way to hopefully get people interested in the other book I have.

We'll see how that goes.


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## Shadow XX (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm quite careful about how I self-promote, and try not to do it in a way that makes me feel like I'm hustling people. If I ever do feel like a particular bit of promotion is harassing people I stop and do something else.

One "ethical" way of promoting your work is to provide something useful for free (maybe a link directory, or a how-to guide, or some useful articles) and include a link to your other work at the end. Readers get something of value from the free resource, and your work gains visibility without you having to shove it in people's faces.


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## jennybizz (Jan 16, 2012)

I read some good advice a few months ago that I have been taking to heart. Blog about your industry. If you are writing fiction - blog about fiction writers. If you write erotica, like me, blog about erotica related topics. I have a page on my blog for my erotica titles and then the rest of my blog is just erotica related stuff. It's fun to write and it gets more readers - I also promote other erotica writers, so it doesn't get boring.


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

I used to be on all of them, and even a forum that instructs on how to effectively spam (Zen Duck). What a time sink that was, never mind the unethical considerations of the entire mindset you have to have for that effort to be worth it.

I kick myself when I think of all the hours spent on those sites and outlets over the years. If I had been writing, say 3000 wpd I'd have triple the number of books, which is a far better catalyst for success that badgering people to death.

Marketing is for the most part an effort to compensate for shoddy writing. Most spammers can't write. What they can do, is copy/paraphrase what *real* writers have already written, change the cover slightly, and pass it as their own. Ninety-nine percent of em.


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## MPTPGV (Jul 28, 2012)

Well, if you listen to other authors, it would seem that that is all correct.  I mean, JA Konrath said that he's watched all his information become for naught.  He doesn't tweet anymore, he doesn't blog nearly as much, he doesn't go on Facebook, he shut off Google+, he just writes.  I believe the secret to today's success is to put out a ton of writing.  Write short-stories, write novelettes, write novellas, write novels, write non-fiction. 

There are things we can do with our writing and publishing that leads people to make the decision that our writing is important. 

Brand It!  Make your covers recognizable that when people see it they immediately know it's one of your books.  Fiction writers, write a series.  If you don't have a series, which I myself am guilty of not yet having, make sure your covers are serialized.  Use the same color palids, or, at least the same design.  If you look at old James Patterson Novels, they were drawn the same way, the titles all look alike, not just Alex Cross either, all his books had a similar cover design with different images. 

Make sure you have an author page for every pen name you write under, right now, there's no problem making multiple author central accounts, and you're allowed three names on each account. 

I'm releasing five novels this year under a pen-name (three were written in the last two years and I've just really discovered self-publishing as a viable option--I know, I'm way behind the curve)... three of these titles, though not a series, use a form of Oral Biography to tell the story.  Make omnibus collections with books with similar themes.  Nora Roberts would produce thirteen books a year, but, several of those books were collections of her previous books.  String together short stories of similar themes and put them together. It's not just more writing.  It's more packaged titles as well. The more publications you have, the more of a chance for people to buy your work. 

Book Descriptions: The only form of marketing you can completely control, make sure your book description is clear and concise and powerful and gripping and have a call of action in it.  Come And Join The Character On The Journey... Experience The Romance of A Lifetime... Feel The Gut Wrenching Horror That Awaits You... Call them to buy your book and experience something. 

I do recommend Librarythings if you're not on KDP Select, or goodreads if you've made a hard copy.  Doing free giveaways definitely adds to your sales and to people who want to check out your book and gives you a great opportunity for reviews.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

Soothesayer said:


> Marketing is for the most part an effort to compensate for shoddy writing.


Say huh? In what mystical universe do you reside that only the best books make the bestseller's list with no marketing whatsoever? I'm curious. I want to move there.   Because the bestsellers' list I see often contain a lot of drek.

In both 2010 and 2011, over 320,00 NEW TITLES were published (numbers for 2012 haven't been released yet from Bowkers). That is only counting new releases in print by trade publishers. That doesn't include ebooks, public domain books, and indie books in print. There are well over a million ebooks for sale just on Amazon. Please explain to me how you expect the average customer to find your book with *no marketing *on your part? Osmosis? Black Magic? Book Fairy waving her wand over your title? Fairy dust?

The problem is that most folks don't know how to market correctly, confuse activity with accomplishment, and look for the quick fixes instead of adopting long-term plans. But it is a fantasy to think that no marketing is required for a good book. I have read dozens of wonderful books that never made the bestseller lists. And I have had the misfortune of stumbling across truly heinous abominations that had no business killing trees that somehow sold a lot of copies.


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## StephenBrennan (Dec 21, 2012)

I hate self-promotion too.  Probably because everyone and their dog is doing it.  Oh look...the dog just had puppies...  

If you look in the Book Bazaar, or worse the Amazon discussion forums, you'll find a whole slew of threads promoting a book.  It's depressing to look at.  More than that, the customers are becoming sensitized to it and will often react negatively.  I once made a post on Reddit to promote my book, and some guy came out of the woodwork to harass me.  He stated with authority that horror is a shit genre, that I was viral marketing (like it was morally wrong), and that he could get any book he wanted for free off Piratebay (yes he actually bragged about ripping off authors).

But I digress.  Yeah, like many of you I'm trying to tear myself away from marketing to just write more books.  The more the better.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

MPTPGV said:


> Well, if you listen to other authors, it would seem that that is all correct. I mean, JA Konrath said that he's watched all his information become for naught. He doesn't tweet anymore, he doesn't blog nearly as much, he doesn't go on Facebook, he shut off Google+, he just writes.


*
Right - but Konrath DID do all that stuff before he made it big.*

And, how many of you have looked at a Konrath's books lately? Who's talking about Konrath these days? No one. Because Konrath's *not talking to us *right now.

*He's got a platform that he can use ANY TIME HE WANTS*. So you can go and compare yourself to him, but unless you've got a list like he does, or a blog like he does, or a twitter account like he does, you'll never be in his position to ignore the world and write and make the level of money he does.

And I have no idea what Konrath's sales are right now, but I'm betting they're not as big as they were when he was promoting himself all over the place. That's just how it works. When you lose the buzz you lose the sales. Not all of them, of course. He's still a huge player in this business, but last year you could do anything without talking about Konrath. And now? He's busy writing. Good for him, he's putting out more product. And at some point in the future he'll be back on that blog, and he'll have soemthign to say, and all of us will hop on over and listen and learn that he just put out a new book and some of us will buy it. Maybe because it has a nice cover, or maybe we like the blurb (both of which are promotional tactics BTW) or maybe we just want to read the story.

I'm not saying he SHOULD go back to the level of promotion he was doing - he probably doesn't need to because he's already obtained a level of notoriety that is self-sustaining. And I'm not saying that everyone should promote themselves, but ya know - just because some people don't like to sell things - doesn't mean they can accuse those of us who do, of this:



> Marketing is for the most part an effort to compensate for shoddy writing. Most spammers can't write. What they can do, is copy/paraphrase what *real* writers have already written, change the cover slightly, and pass it as their own. Ninety-nine percent of em


It's painful for me to read these threads because I see what the underlying sentiment is. You don't like it - so you want to _pretend _it makes no difference. You want to _pretend _that promotion is for people trying to cover up shoddy writing, or that all promotion is spam, or just to give yourself an excuse to not do it.

Folks, advertising makes a difference. Regardless of whether you pay for ads, hang out in this forum, give away bookmarks on a street corner, sponsor a Rafflecopter, post to a Facebook page, or write on your blog. If it had no measurable results, it wouldn't be a billion dollar business.

*If you don't want to do, then don't. But leave the rest of us who ARE good at it, and who DO make more sales with it, and who DO acquire readers and connections through it, alone. There's no need for the pathetic insult like the one I quoted above. *


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## MPTPGV (Jul 28, 2012)

A few other thoughts on promoting your book. 

Use free giveaways
Contact blogs
Write press releases
Release Articles (If you're a fiction writer, write about the self-publishing process, write about editing, write about sentence structure, write about metaphor, write about character development, write about story development, write about pov, write about show don't tell, write about breaking rules... and people will come to buy your books to see how you use the things you write about.  If you're writing romance, write romance advice, write sex advice... You can write articles on anything, if you don't want to write them for 30 dollars you can get other people to write a crap load for you.  Then you pay to have them submitted to all the major article outlets (20 to 50 dollars at most) and you have dozens if not hundreds of links pointing to your book, and lots of readers who might be interested in checking you out).  Four hundred words, or, roughly, an hour of writing and editing, two hours tops.   If you did this 5 times a month, you're not marketing, you're giving them wonderful advice and they're rewarding you by deciding you're a person they want to read.
The major thing I notice people don't do is have a lot of work out.  I've gone over 200 Indie authors right now, a good some of which are on this board, I've calculated their current selling ratios.  Of the 15 I found that had more than 12 books is a specific niche out, 80% were getting over a thousand sales a month.  12 books in one niche.  I haven't found anyone that wasn't making good sales with over 30 publications no matter if they were 20 pages or full books.   WRITING as the op said is his intention IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IF YOU PUBLISH IT ALL!


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

StephenBrennan said:


> I once made a post on Reddit to promote my book, and some guy came out of the woodwork to harass me. He stated with authority that horror is a [crap] genre, that I was viral marketing (like it was morally wrong), and that he could get any book he wanted for free off Piratebay (yes he actually bragged about ripping off authors).


I use to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee. 

Anyone seen this YouTube spoof for Skyrim? (At work so can't look it up myself). If you played the game, it is funny. In the game, random guards will often say to your character "I use to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee." In the video, the cartoon Dragonborne responds with something like "You...use to be an adventurer..._like me_. But ONE ARROW and now you're not." Then he goes on with a long list of things that have happened to him (stabbed, bludgeoned, shot, set on fire, attacked by dragons, attacked by bandits, attacked by necromancers, etc, etc) "But you took ONE ARROW and now you're not an adventurer."

These conversations really remind me of those random guards.

Those of us who market, and know how to market, really don't want to here this silliness about your single arrow to the knee. Marketing really is like adventuring. You get shot at. You get attacked. You get set on fire. But if you keep going, and you learn to adapt and shrug off the pain, there is this nice treasure chest at the end of the dungeon.

Or, you can go back to being a guard in Whiterun and admire my sweet dragonbone armor. Because "just writing and not marketing" is just doing a guard patrol around the same area each day, hoping someone notices what a great guard you are. Marketing is going into those dark, forgotten places and coming out with bruises and loot.


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## Catana (Mar 27, 2012)

"Brand It! Make your covers recognizable that when people see it they immediately know it's one of your books. Fiction writers, write a series. If you don't have a series, which I myself am guilty of not yet having, make sure your covers are serialized. Use the same color palids, or, at least the same design. If you look at old James Patterson Novels, they were drawn the same way, the titles all look alike, not just Alex Cross either, all his books had a similar cover design with different images."

_Not_ a good idea unless you write in just one genre. Like anything else, branding can be carried too far. If covers are supposed to convey something about the subject, then trying to make one style work for every book is a recipe for disaster. Even within a genre, books benefit by having covers that are distinctive in some way. Why would you force the appearance of serialization where it doesn't exist?


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## pjmorse (Dec 7, 2012)

MPTPGV said:


> Brand It! Make your covers recognizable that when people see it they immediately know it's one of your books. Fiction writers, write a series.


Indeed. You can cut down on the amount of self-promotion you need to do with the right branding. I know, I know, don't judge the book by its cover, but cover designs should scream genre. I want my book to roar, "I'm a comic mystery! If you like Carl Hiaasen, pick this up!" I spent a lot of time looking at the covers of the authors who are successful in my chosen genre. And the next book cover should also be in that design family.

But self-promotion can be rough. I'm an introvert, and I always feel bad with the self-promoting. I try to put myself on auto-pilot when it's promotion time.


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## StephenBrennan (Dec 21, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I use to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
> 
> Anyone seen this YouTube spoof for Skyrim? (At work so can't look it up myself). If you played the game, it is funny. In the game, random guards will often say to your character "I use to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee." In the video, the cartoon Dragonborne responds with something like "You...use to be an adventurer..._like me_. But ONE ARROW and now you're not." Then he goes on with a long list of things that have happened to him (stabbed, bludgeoned, shot, set on fire, attacked by dragons, attacked by bandits, attacked by necromancers, etc, etc) "But you took ONE ARROW and now you're not an adventurer."
> 
> ...


"I once took an arrow to the knee. I stood to rejoin the battle, and a legion of trolls 1-starred me on Amazon."


Just seems like self promotion is getting less productive. Somewhere out there is a 400 pound shut-in with nothing else to do with his time except destroy some random person he saw online.

EDIT: Actually I should differentiate between paid self-promotion like banner ads, and the personal touch stuff like forum posts. People don't usually feud against banner ads.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

StephenBrennan said:


> Just seems like self promotion is getting less productive. Somewhere out there is a 400 pound shut-in with nothing else to do with his time except destroy some random person he saw online.


I do almost NO forum marketing. I have a signature here on KB and once in a while I post a new release in the Bazaar. But I rarely actively promote my books on a forum. Forum promotion is chasing one sale at a time. I can't be bothered with that.

Most of my marketing efforts go into public relations and paid advertising. This summer was my best summer in business in the last ten years. I had a new release, but most of my efforts over the summer were actually going into the eFestival of Words Virtual Book Fair. The PR boost from the festival increased my company's visibility and drove traffic to my site, which in turn created sales.


Spoiler



And it had the added benefit of boosting a lot of other authors as well. many of the award winners have told me they saw increased traffic and sales after the event.


. It was a powerful marketing tool that paid dividends. I run a charity writing competition each year. I invest a lot of money in prizes and promotion for the contest, which again increases my overall company profile and drives traffic to my site.

And even on those rare times when I do promote in a forum, it is usually to promote things like I just mentioned above. Nobody will attack you for promoting a competition to fund a children's charity. Nobody with real credibility anyway.  I got enormous support from the KB community with the festival. Nobody felt I was self-promoting. For most people, I was leveraging my resources to promote others.

The point is, there is so much more to marketing than spamming forums hoping someone clicks the link and buys your book. This is what I mean my long-term planning.


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## MPTPGV (Jul 28, 2012)

*If you don't want to do, then don't. But leave the rest of us who ARE good at it, and who DO make more sales with it, and who DO acquire readers and connections through it, alone. There's no need for the pathetic insult like the one I quoted above. * 
[/quote]

I love marketing. I understand why some people don't. I have 2,647 twitter followers. I've made an internet presence for myself. As my posts point out I believe in doing a lot of things. I'm just saying, writing is the number one thing you must do. Yes a website and talking to your readers is important. However, I haven't gotten a single email from my readers. I've given away roughly 12,000 copies of books, I've sold 500 copies, and I haven't gotten a single person who's sent me an email. These are non-fiction books however. My big book Trick Yourself skinny, sold 20 copies it's first month without being on KDP select, because my other two books supported it. The more books you have out, the less you have to market, because the more your books market for you. When I do a free giveaway, my total sales numbers jump usually by 50. I did a giveaway accidentally, forgot about it, got only 500 downloads with no advertising, I still got 20 additional sales in the weeks after.

There's no one with 30 Branded publications who are not doing well. I have a friend who has 15 books out of varying sizes, nothing bigger than 65 pages. He's done no free-giveaways. He's done no marketing outside of blogging. There's no brand, no continuation, two gay vampire erotica stories, a book on werewolves, a book on debt, a book on writing, a book on weight loss, an autobiography (part 1), and yet he's sold 500 copies in the last 5 months.

Quantity does produce sales. Quality produces word of mouth. Quality Quantity, that's the marketing Anthem of 2013 in my opinion.


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## olefish (Jan 24, 2012)

markobeezy said:


> For 2013, I've resolved to just write and write write write write until people (or big publishing companies) are pursuing _me_. I'm done resembling one of those fools out in the parking lot trying to sell CD's out of his trunk to anyone who walks by. Or how about that guy who approached people while they are pumping their gas and asks them for money in exchange for pumping their gas/wiping windshields/airing up their tires.


I fail to see why a man trying to sell cds out the back of his truck is a fool. He's working for his dreams to get noticed. Why is he a fool?


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

MPTPGV said:


> There's no one with 30 Branded publications who are not doing well. I have a friend who has 15 books out of varying sizes, nothing bigger than 65 pages. He's done no free-giveaways. He's done no marketing outside of blogging. There's no brand, no continuation, two gay vampire erotica stories, a book on werewolves, a book on debt, a book on writing, a book on weight loss, an autobiography (part 1), and yet he's sold 500 copies in the last 5 months.


Fifteen titles at 100 sales a month = 7 sales per title per month. *That would bankrupt me*. I'd still be paying off the cost of the book covers at those rates (forget paying editors or proofreaders). Seven sales per title per month is not a success story. It proves the fallacy of the quantity argument. The only way you make money with quantity with such low sales number is if you have zero expenses. If you have no expenses for your cover, no expenses for editing, for proofreading, for formatting, etc.


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## KM Logan (Jun 2, 2012)

I guess I'm "over it" then again I was also in sales before becoming a SAHM too, so I have a different perspective when it comes to promotion.  You have to look at promotion from the perspective of, you're not asking people for money, you're giving them something of value.

When someone takes their groceries to the checker, they don't just expect to leave with a bunch of free food, no they pay for it, because the groceries have value.  If what you have has value, don't feel bad telling people about it.  Apparently your friends and family think your work has value, otherwise they wouldn't be encouraging you to promote it.

If you feel guilty doing it yourself then pay someone on Fiverr to do it for you


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## Linda Ash (Jul 13, 2010)

I hate self promotion, too. I used to sell homemade candy at the farmer's market. That was almost easy because I hade free samples of my wares out on the table and they spoke for themselves. I almost always sold out. I've done a few book signings at farmer's markets and although I don't have free samples of my writing out on the table, I usually bring my drop spindle and spin while at the table. This brings people over, we start a conversation, which I can usually steer toward the books. 

Other than that, I rarely take on, in Julie's words, the adventure of self-promotion. I do know that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but I've never been a noisemaker.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

JanneCO said:


> You don't like it - so you want to _pretend _it makes no difference. You want to _pretend _that promotion is for people trying to cover up shoddy writing, or that all promotion is spam, or just to give yourself an excuse to not do it.
> 
> If you don't want to do, then don't. But leave the rest of us who ARE good at it, and who DO make more sales with it, and who DO acquire readers and connections through it, alone.


I'm not pretending marketing doesn't work or trying to insult those who choose to do it. I choose not to do much of it, but I concede it works for many people. And not marketing doesn't mean selling a book a month any more than marketing means trying to compensate for shoddy writing. My books have been bringing in three to five times the amount I need as supplemental retirement income for over two years, and if I had to market aggressively to do that, I'd choose some other way to earn the money.

Discussions like this don't need to insult one side or the other. Knowing all the possibilities helps people trying to decide what to do. When I first read Dean Wesley Smith's arguments that promotion was a waste of time for those with only a few books out, I felt enormous relief. Just seeing that advice from someone who had been in the business a long time and earning a living writing let me relax about doing things my way.


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## MPTPGV (Jul 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Fifteen titles at 100 sales a month = 7 sales per title per month. *That would bankrupt me*. I'd still be paying off the cost of the book covers at those rates (forget paying editors or proofreaders). Seven sales per title per month is not a success story. It proves the fallacy of the quantity argument. The only way you make money with quantity with such low sales number is if you have zero expenses. If you have no expenses for your cover, no expenses for editing, for proofreading, for formatting, etc.


I don't spend that much money on those things at all. I think my covers are pretty good, I can't imagine them any other way, I paid only five dollars for them.

Time will tell, I have a 30 book non-fiction series coming out, I have six of these books written. There short books, there dense with information, and I'll see what they do.

I have two erotica series that I'm releasing under two pen names that both play off each other. I'm writing 10,000 words a day, so it's part of reality that I could actually do this. Time makes converts out of everyone. I plan on marketing.

Outside of Goodreads, Book Blogs, Article Submission, Youtube Videos, Press Releases, Librarythings, and Wattpad (if you're doing YA Stories), what techniques do you use to market. I have 2,647 twitter followers, none of them paid for, none of them even following because I followed them, all of them organic from my postings on sites. I give weight loss tips daily, I get retweets, I get viral responses, I get no extra sales, or even downloads. Twitter is a bust for me. I have a facebook group with nearly 300 people in it, still nothing. I've built an email list of nearly 50 people, but only get about 20 people to open the email when something's free or discounted.

What other marketing is there to do to get your book out there? Or does that cover it.


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## Catana (Mar 27, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Fifteen titles at 100 sales a month = 7 sales per title per month. *That would bankrupt me*. I'd still be paying off the cost of the book covers at those rates (forget paying editors or proofreaders). Seven sales per title per month is not a success story. It proves the fallacy of the quantity argument. The only way you make money with quantity with such low sales number is if you have zero expenses. If you have no expenses for your cover, no expenses for editing, for proofreading, for formatting, etc.


Julie, I agree with you, up to a point. But first, comparing a publisher's marketing, costs, and sales with a single writer's is comparing apples and oranges. From his perspective, he may be doing very well. Not everyone wants to focus tightly on just a few genres. Nor is the bottom line their primary motivation for writing. That said, he'd probably be doing better if he wasn't so scattered and would pursue some of those avenues further than he's done. Or maybe he's just getting started and hasn't decided where to focus his attention.

These discussions disturb me when viewpoints are presented as if they're the only viable solution. I doubt that you meant to come across that way, but it still looks very much like "My way is the only right way."


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

Catana said:


> *****, I agree with you, up to a point. But first, comparing a publisher's marketing, costs, and sales with a single writer's is comparing apples and oranges. From his perspective, he may be doing very well. Not everyone wants to focus tightly on just a few genres. Nor is the bottom line their primary motivation for writing.


And that's cool. If someone is publishing simply because they enjoy the process and they get giddy just because some random stranger bought a book, that's wonderful. The beauty of self-publishing is you can just goof around and maybe make a few bucks in the process. But, go back and read the actual post I quoted. That wasn't simply the comment of a simple author stating a personal preference. It was a sweeping statement claiming that everyone who produces volume is "doing well." I simply think it is important to clarify what the poster was considering "well" so that there was real perspective. Sure, lots of folks don't really think about sales volume. But you and I both know most people here didn't get into self publishing to sell 7 copies a month (heck, whenever I've pointed out that, statistically, the average self published book sells less than 200 copies in its lifetime, I've about had my head ripped off). Many of them got into it so they could effectively be their own publishers, which puts them more on my footing than just being a single author playing around with the tools. They are looking to generate real income, if not full time income at least enough to pay a few bills.

If someone is content where they are, that's beautiful. People should develop their plans based on their own goals. My point was merely that this concept of "quantity" instead of marketing is logically flawed and that when we look deeper at the numbers they don't always say what people would want us to think they say.


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## Natasha Holme (May 26, 2012)

I don't mind marketing. I'm a web developer and absolutely loved building my website. I also love hanging out on Twitter and Goodreads, and I enjoy thinking up new ideas to gain attention.

The best boon for me has been meeting and working with Helena Whitbread, historian and editor of The Secret Diaries of Miss Anne Lister. I got in contact with Helena because both Anne Lister (who lived two hundred years ago) and I are lesbians who wrote millions of words of diaries in our own codes based on the Greek alphabet.

Happily for me, Helena is excited by my work and is generously giving me her time and promoting me amongst her contacts. Getting an important published author onboard has been my greatest self-promotion strategy so far.


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## MPTPGV (Jul 28, 2012)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> And that's cool. If someone is publishing simply because they enjoy the process and they get giddy just because some random stranger bought a book, that's wonderful. The beauty of self-publishing is you can just goof around and maybe make a few bucks in the process. But, go back and read the actual post I quoted. That wasn't simply the comment of a simple author stating a personal preference. It was a sweeping statement claiming that everyone who produces volume is "doing well." I simply think it is important to clarify what the poster was considering "well" so that there was real perspective. Sure, lots of folks don't really think about sales volume. But you and I both know most people here didn't get into self publishing to sell 7 copies a month (heck, whenever I've pointed out that, statistically, the average self published book sells less than 200 copies in its lifetime, I've about had my head ripped off). Many of them got into it so they could effectively be their own publishers, which puts them more on my footing than just being a single author playing around with the tools. They are looking to generate real income, if not full time income at least enough to pay a few bills.
> 
> If someone is content where they are, that's beautiful. People should develop their plans based on their own goals. My point was merely that this concept of "quantity" instead of marketing is logically flawed and that when we look deeper at the numbers they don't always say what people would want us to think they say.


I'm sorry, my post might have been a bit inaccurate as I was writing it. what I was saying is that with no marketing, no cohesion of thought, no branding, just a hodge-podge of random brain farts (my friends description for his writing) he made a thousand dollars in 5 months.

I've done right now only the KDP select with my 3 books, I've sold five hundred copies in 4 months, and I've sold 24 copies right now--as I've just checked, in the last 3 days. Mine are genre specific, niched, and put together perfectly. They're three weight loss books obviously. Yes, marketing works, but, production can do the same thing. Especially however if that production is niche based and focused.

If you write 20 erotica stories in a series you're likely to start picking up readers without much effort. If you write 4 or 5 mysteries around a single character you're likely to start picking up readers wtihout much marketing. On site branding (covers, stories, and the such), graphic book description, good tags, can get your book selling without off-site marketing.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> In both 2010 and 2011, over 320,00 NEW TITLES were published (numbers for 2012 haven't been released yet from Bowkers). That is only counting new releases in print by trade publishers. That doesn't include ebooks, public domain books, and indie books in print. There are well over a million ebooks for sale just on Amazon. Please explain to me how you expect the average customer to find your book with *no marketing *on your part? Osmosis? Black Magic? Book Fairy waving her wand over your title? Fairy dust?


Oh please. Spare me your melodramatic angst. I am doing "*no marketing*" right now, and my books are not only selling, sales are increasing. Just because you don't know how readers will find you, doesn't mean they won't (or can't).



> The problem is that most folks don't know how to market correctly, confuse activity with accomplishment, and look for the quick fixes instead of adopting long-term plans.


No, the problem is that people fail to recognize that the best promotion is a new book. In other words, you'll accomplish a heck of a lot more if you put all that time and energy into writing, writing, writing, as the OP said.



> But it is a fantasy to think that no marketing is required for a good book. I have read dozens of wonderful books that never made the bestseller lists. And I have had the misfortune of stumbling across truly heinous abominations that had no business killing trees that somehow sold a lot of copies.


You don't need to make a bestseller list to be a success, even from a purely commercial definition of success. Also, this is an art, and quality is subjective. Just because you found something abominable doesn't mean that it somehow doesn't "deserve" the success that it enjoys. That way of thinking lies madness.

At the end of the day, the only things that truly matter are that you write, that you finish what you write, and that you put your work on the market (and keep it there) once it's finished.


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## markobeezy (Jan 30, 2012)

I wasn't looking for this discussion to turn ugly, I just wanted to vent on a Thursday morning...

Here's the thing...I think you should all buy 400 copies of my book. Each. That way, we'll all have done something that we can agree on.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

markobeezy said:


> Here's the thing...I think you should all buy 400 copies of my book. Each. That way, we'll all have done something that we can agree on.


Silly wabbit. Do it this way:

BUY MY BOOK, DAMMIT
(Hugh Howey)


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## C.P.D.Harris (Dec 30, 2012)

I think many people are uncomfortable with self-promotion. We all hate our twitter feeds, e-mail, and facebook being spammed by pointless adds we aren't interested in. I used to work in facebook games, and that was much worse than just about anything authors get up to. The key is finding the correct balance I'd guess. If you aren't comfortable with some aspect of your self-promotion efforts there is a good chance that your audience will pick up on that, so get into it slowly if you need to.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

Joe Vasicek said:


> Oh please. Spare me your melodramatic angst. I am doing "*no marketing*" right now, and my books are not only selling, sales are increasing. Just because you don't know how readers will find you, doesn't mean they won't (or can't).


You have a blog. You have a FB page. You are on Goodreads. You've done guest posts on other people's blogs. No, I'm not stalking you. I simply did a quick Google search and...low and behold...you are marketing. Perhaps you don't call those activities marketing, but that is what they are.


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## Catana (Mar 27, 2012)

I think what it boils down to is that some books will take off and sell like crazy without the author doing anything that resembles marketing, and some will sit and collect dust no matter how much marketing the author does. Most of us are somewhere in between. What's right for us is something that only we can determine, via experimentation. And what represents success is also something that only we can determine.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

I blog because I like blogging.  I don't do it to sell books, and I don't actively push my books (other than the links on the sidebar, which maybe get one or two clicks every other day).

I do guest posts because I enjoy it.  When I first started publishing, I did it to sell books, and it failed miserably.  If I've gotten any fans through the blog tours I tried to put together, I can probably count them on my fingers.

My FB page is a ghost town.  I only ever post there when I have a new blog post, and even then, only occasionally.

I set up my Goodreads page sometime last year and only ever touch it when I have a new book come out.  Even then, it's a pain in the butt to figure out (again) how to create a new book listing.  Goodreads is like an Escher-esque labyrinth to me, and I don't use it much as a reader or a writer.

All of these are things that pop up if you do a search for "joe vasicek." But how many people on average do that every day?  Only people who already know who I am.  So...yeah.

If your argument is that writers must actively and consciously work to attract new eyeballs to their books in order to keep from being lost in the flood of content, I am proof that that is wrong.  Yes, I am accessible to my readers.  Yes, I have a marketing plan--one that consists mostly of things that I only have to do once and can forget about afterward.  I also have a promotion plan, which is basically "don't worry about promotion until you have ten novels out." And guess what?  In spite of however many bazillion jillion books are published each minute / hour / day / week / month / year / decade / century / millenia / geologic era, readers are still finding my books.

The best thing writers can do is to stop worrying about all that stuff and just write.


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

Im a very shy and retiring type - I hate even using phones and going out.  I'd rather stay at home and not go anywhere where there are crowds.  Which means self promoting is something that gives me sweats even thinking about.

Sadly it is something that has to be done I think.  I've tried the whole 'just write and wait to be discovered trick.'  I've had some people say nice things about my work but it hasnt resulted in even being closed to being discovered.  So there is nothing for it but to take the self-promoting plunge I fear.


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## JHarte (Jul 10, 2012)

jennybizz said:


> I read some good advice a few months ago that I have been taking to heart. Blog about your industry. If you are writing fiction - blog about fiction writers. If you write erotica, like me, blog about erotica related topics. I have a page on my blog for my erotica titles and then the rest of my blog is just erotica related stuff. It's fun to write and it gets more readers - I also promote other erotica writers, so it doesn't get boring.


I read a blog or book that said to be careful about blogging about writing if you're a fiction writer because you're more likely to attract people who want info about writing, but may not be a market for your fiction books. I sometimes blog about writing, as well as my updates, but I also review books or blog about tv/movies that are in my genre. In essence, I try to blog about the stuff my target market (people who read my fiction) want to read about.

I disagree with the other person in this discussion who said marketing is done by people who can't write. If you don't have the distribution reach provided by big publishers, you have to get your books in front of people or they won't know about them. Having a ton of books alone doesn't solve that problem. I think having more books gives your fans more to buy, allows you to appeal to a variety of people, and leads to more referrals, but one book or ten books won't matter if people don't know about them. You have to market in a way that works. Forum marketing doesn't work unless you write non-fiction. I think it is much harder to market fiction than non-fiction (I do both), but I find that I sell way more ebooks in fiction than non-fiction. For non-fiction, print seems to sell better in my experience.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Joe Vasicek said:


> The best thing writers can do is to stop worrying about all that stuff and just write.


Really? This is the BEST advice a writer can follow? Seriously?

And Julie's right. You have explored, and continue to use, a lot of very diverse marketing options, yet you're best advice is for others to NOT do it. It makes no freaking difference if you ENJOY blogging and guest posts! I enjoy it too, but when I do it, it's marketing and a waste of time because I recognize and call it what it is. But when you do it, it's not because you have some strange unverifiable definition of self-promotion.

That makes no sense.

I think you should take your own advice though. Stop blogging. Delete that website, and Facebook page, and never add another book to Goodreads.

You come back and tell us how it goes.

And edit to say:" Not only what I said above but additionally - you're either running a freaking KDP free day today or you're on perma-free. But that's not self-promotion, right? 

*I think we should all look up the definition of MARKETING.*


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

I have to join the reluctant promoter group.  

So far, I've done very little. I'm part of a group blog with four other writer friends. I tweet (and while I'm not sure it does blip-all for my books, it is fun at times), and I'm in Select, because it seemed an easy promo avenue (not sure that still applies, but I've always been a sucker for easy). That's it. And I won't be adding any promo tasks to that short list in 2013. The truth is that since starting self-publishing--about a year ago--I've spent more time worrying about promo than actually doing any and accomplished very little other than filling my writer's soul with should-dos and guilt.

So moving forward into the new year, it's going to be writing more and promo--ing less. I think it will make life more...serene.


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## 48209 (Jul 4, 2011)

There's one thing I don't hear enough of on this board: "What works for one won't work for all."

I always find it interesting. Of all the groups to understand that there's no magic bullet, it seems like it should be the indie group.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

What I've found "worth it":
1 Reading books about craft and editing
2 Reading blogs about self-pubbing written by successful people who understand why they're successful
3 Having a foundation of website/Facebook page/email newsletter

What is not worth it for me:
4 Most paid advertising 
5 Kissing ass of strangers hoping they'll buy my book
6 Twitter
7 Blogging of any kind

I think the OP is referring to #5 as something he wants to quit. The kissing ass of strangers. Who likes that? I mean, be nice, sure, be normal, but trying to make people like you? Barf. Just say no to ass-kissing and tweeting.


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## lmckinley (Oct 3, 2012)

From Wikipedia:

The American Marketing Association defines marketing as "the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large."[1]

JoanneCO is right I guess, that even a simple, one time, 'hey, new book here!" or a blog on marginally related subjects counts as marketing.

Not that it matters really, but it's always nice as a writer to know precisely what a word means.

I personally love to hear authors say that they are doing little promotion and still selling books because I'm not planning to promote. I'm also not trying to earn a full time income from this, so that gives me more freedom. I shared my first short story on my regular FB page which I use anyway, and sold six copies. This made me happy. Obviously, different things work for different people. It seems that some on here feel criticized for taking marketing seriously. I'm not sure why, since everyone seems to agree its a good thing when done well.

I think the real question is this:
What are good ways to spread word about your book beyond saying: Hey, buy my book! over and over again. Julie seems to have some terrific ideas, which are unfortunately beyond the scope of most authors. Still, good marketing i.e. not hard selling are obviously welcome to many of us reclusive writer types.

Clearly, writing more books takes a lot of time but also pays off. But there may other ways to 'promote' in a way you feel comfortable with. Takes a little thinking outside the box maybe? I'm rambling now.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

Good luck. I hope that works.  I have 20 books and novels out there - and I still have to self-promote and I still have to hold down a full-time day job.  So, I am going to keep pimping myself and my work by updating my blog, Facebook, Twitter, Google+, LinkedIn, Kindleboards, Goodreads, writing press releases and doing whatever I can to get the word out.


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## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

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## Guest (Jan 4, 2013)

JanneCO said:


> Really? This is the BEST advice a writer can follow? Seriously?
> 
> And Julie's right. You have explored, and continue to use, a lot of very diverse marketing options, yet you're best advice is for others to NOT do it. It makes no freaking difference if you ENJOY blogging and guest posts! I enjoy it too, but when I do it, it's marketing and a waste of time because I recognize and call it what it is. But when you do it, it's not because you have some strange unverifiable definition of self-promotion.
> 
> ...


I think you should reread my previous contributions to this discussion and not put words in my mouth.

I never said that writers should deliberately ignore everything having to do with marketing and promotion. I said that writers shouldn't worry that readers aren't going to be able to find their books. Instead, they should focus their energy on writing more and better books. Certainly, we all should be open to exploring a variety of avenues for advancing our careers. But you can have a writing career without ever getting listed on ENT or POI; you can't have a writing career if you don't write.

Yeah, I have a few perma-free titles. It's something I could do once and not ever bother with again. I don't try to get them listed anywhere, except once, when I joined a group promo just to see how it worked. I enjoyed it, so I might do something similar again sometime. Or maybe not. I'm not too worried about it--in fact, I'm not worried about it at all.

I follow my own advice. I don't worry about marketing or promotion--I worry about putting new words on the page and keeping to a regular publishing schedule. If I do anything related to marketing or promotion, it's because I enjoy doing it--not because I'm scared that I'll be a failure if I don't.

I never said that when you do marketing, it's "a waste of time because [you] recognize and call it what it is." Don't be so full of yourself to interpret my opinion as a personal barb. If marketing is something that you enjoy, more power to you. Just don't try to scare or guilt other writers into thinking that they're doing it wrong if they don't take your approach.

By definition, there's only one thing that a writer must do: write. The moment a writer stops writing, by definition, he/she is no longer a writer. Everything else--and I do mean everything--is optional. We all have to set our own goals, define what "success" means in our own individual context, and strike out on our own path to achieve it. And if I'm going to follow my own path, I can't afford to let other people scare me or guilt me into following theirs. I have to have the courage to make my own.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2013)

lmckinley said:


> I think the real question is this:
> What are good ways to spread word about your book beyond saying: Hey, buy my book! over and over again. Julie seems to have some terrific ideas, which are unfortunately beyond the scope of most authors. Still, good marketing i.e. not hard selling are obviously welcome to many of us reclusive writer types.
> 
> Clearly, writing more books takes a lot of time but also pays off. But there may other ways to 'promote' in a way you feel comfortable with. Takes a little thinking outside the box maybe? I'm rambling now.


1. It's important to have an attractive cover and a compelling book description.
2. Permafree can give your other books a boost, if they're all in the same series.
3. Social media can help if you're good at it, but it's not essential.
4. Keeping an email list is probably the best way to tell people about your next book, since everyone who signed up already wants to be updated. Just don't spam them.

Honestly, I think the big elephant in the room (forum?) is that some of us think that the problem is with our marketing, when really, it's with our craft. If your book isn't selling, maybe it's not a very good book. No hard feelings, though--just write another one. With time and practice, your craft will improve and your books will get better. Certainly, I think that should be the main focus of our attention, rather than worrying how readers are going to find our books. That's what Amazon has algorithms for, and who knows how all of those work?


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## 60865 (Jun 11, 2012)

kathrynoh ... I'm starting and doing erotica too ... want to assist in plan making and cross promote ?
Actually I've been searching the internet for all the ways to promote erotica and I'm putting together a list of the sites and facebook pages. That's my January project.

Anyone who wants to join for erotica is welcome.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Marketing is for the most part an effort to compensate for shoddy writing. Most spammers can't write. What they can do, is copy/paraphrase what *real* writers have already written, change the cover slightly, and pass it as their own. Ninety-nine percent of em


What's a real writer? How do they differ from writers?


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

Terrence OBrien said:


> What's a real writer? How do they differ from writers?


A writer is someone who can write FICTION as well as non-fiction. Simple.

I have heard from so many SEO spammers who publicly claimed that they could write non-fiction all day, but writing fiction was usually outsourced to Indian outfits (or Content Authority). Places like Zen Pond, Affiliate Sites, Warrior Forums and other scumbag hangouts.

Honestly, they're not doing us any favors.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> A writer is someone who can write FICTION as well as non-fiction. Simple


.

Ok. So what's a real writer?



> More elbow patches, corduroy and ascots?


An iPhone cover that looks like a Moleskine notebook?


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Okay, I am doing a two-day free run for the new release (Catalyst) starting tomorrow.

I've sent info about this to every freebie-hustling place I can get my hands on, including two paid ones (low end). The big ones (POI, ENT etc) are of course ignoring me because I don't yet have enough reviews for the new release, so hopefully I can get some eyeballs on the smaller sites.
I've posted on a few forums and will hit Snick's List, Addicted, etc tomorrow as well as Twitter and G+.

In terms of author self-promotion, this is currently the best I know how to do. If this doesn't do it, I don't know what could, without shelling out the huge bucks (or hiring someone to do it for me).

Although time-consuming, this did NOT take away time I should/could be using to write. I worked my way through these places over the past two weeks when I did NOT feel like writing.

There is no reason why writing and marketing have to be mutually exclusive. It'd rather just be writing, too, but few of us have the luxury of doing only what pleases us.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

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## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

Soothesayer said:


> A writer is someone who can write FICTION as well as non-fiction. Simple.


No, a writer by definition of a career is some who writes and gets paid for it. I was writing when I was five, but I could not be referred to as a writer. Some might say I'm not a writer now, but that's purely a subjective judgement on their part, and not an actuality based on the job title of 'writer'.



Soothesayer said:


> ...Warrior Forums and other scumbag hangouts.


Wow.

There are a lot of nice, intelligent (and helpful) people on warrior forum. Scumbags?


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

In my best Jeff Foxworthy voice:

If your cover is anything but a white background with plain black title – you might be a self-promoter.
If you fill out a blurb – you might be a self-promoter.
If you enter keywords or tags – you might be a self-promoter.
If you fill out the author bio on AC – you might be a self-promoter.
If you’ve ever told another living soul that you write books – you might be a self-promoter.

After reading through three pages of posts, it occurs to me that the issue isn’t self-promotion, but rather how far you go to be a book peddler. By the purest definition, any of the above would have to be considered marketing/promotion. 

I’m not sure it matters to me where anyone else draws the line. You can call me a book-slut, page-stitute, or an ebook pimp, I don’t care and why should anyone else? If you hate marketing, don’t do it. If you only write for the art and don’t care about sales, then that’s cool. If your goal is to make a quick buck and move onto the next get-rich scheme, more power to ya.

Mrs. Nobody writes poetry. She doesn’t share her work with anyone. On vacations, during family events and at special times, she scratches out some lines and denotes the date/time/situation. Those sheets go into a notebook that I didn’t even know existed for over 10 years of marriage. She uses the poems like photographs, pulling out a prose from the past to read and remember how she was feeling. She has zero desire to publish, sell or share with anyone. To me, that’s the only example of a “pure” writing I can think of.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

POI picked up my freebie today!
I'm gobsmacked. Self-promo is a good thing.  No wonder the downloads are piling up.

Joe, I was touched by what you said about your wife. Heck, us girls are ALWAYS touched when someone speaks highly of their better half


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## Hans Cummings (May 16, 2011)

I loathe tooting my own horn. I have a bit of that George McFly complex. "What if they didn't like it? I just don't know if I could take that kind of rejection."

Obviously, I haven't let that cripple my aspirations, as I have three books for sale now. I have a Facebook page, a Google Community, and a Twitter account. I don't do a lot of self-promo, though. I'll tweet about sales once a day, otherwise, I might tweet a link to my books a few times a week. I tweet more regularly than that, just trying to be personable and talk about my writing when it enters naturally into the conversation. Some people think I should mention my books every chance I get, at work meetings, at gatherings of friends, to cashiers at the store, but I find that highly obnoxious. I hate when people push the hard sell on me and I refuse to do it to other people.

But, that sort of thing works for some people. I'm not going to claim my way sells books. I haven't had a Zero-sale month, but if I sell half-a-dozen titles a month, I feel like I've had a decent month (good thing I have a day job). The authors I've seen having success with that kind of heavy marketing often have dozens of titles to sell and already had a name for themselves when they started self-publishing. It might work for you, too. It might not. There's a happy medium somewhere, and it's up to each author to find that happy medium for themselves.

Writing is my favorite part of the craft. Revisions after being edited are hard. Not because I'm afraid of wiping out huge swathes of text (if I was afraid of that, I wouldn't send it to an editor), but because I usually am tired of the story by then. Final layout and crafting the cover are OK; I just wish I could get everything right on the first try. But when it comes to marketing. Ugh. Hate it. I suck at writing blurbs and I know what reaction I have to someone getting in my face and telling me that I must read a thing (or watch it) because it is right up my alley: I immediate gain an irrational dislike and aversion to that thing (especially if it's someone I don't personally know and trust to understand my preferences).

It's difficult and sometimes discouraging. Once I get book 4 out, I'm thinking of contacting a publicist and seeing what my options are in having someone else do some marketing for me. I'm already not breaking even on my books (editing and genre-appropriate cover art get expensive), so if I can afford some more expenses, I'm OK with that 'cause I'm looking at the big picture and not looking to make a quick buck.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> .
> 
> Ok. So what's a real writer?
> 
> An iPhone cover that looks like a Moleskine notebook?


Oh, now this would be very impressive. 

While I'm on record as a reluctant promoter, probably because I can never figure out the most effective way to go about it, I _am_ going to do a bit of paid advertising this coming year. Trying for the ENT book of the day is my first effort.

I guess I'd be more accurate if I called myself a minimalist promoter. Now that I think about it, maybe my sales reflect this.


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

Here is the marketing I plan to avoid: Plugging links to my book daily, weekly, or even monthly on Twitter.
Why? Because I see 100s of these in my own Twitter feed constantly. And you know what? I never click on them. And I NEVER buy them.

What I will do: HAVE A WEB PRESENCE.
Maintain my blog. Be _available_ on Facebook (author page). _Have_ a Twitter account and respond to fans, people who are interested, and be a real person. I won't link my book, but it might be visible in my profile. _Be_ on Goodreads and keep it up to date. I'm sure I can spend 30m or less on it to add a book. I wouldn't know, as I don't have Goodreads yet (no books out, though I have one in editing).

"Promotion" I plan to do:
Interviews, and notifying freebie or cheap reads sites. Some guest posts if requested. But just at the start, to kick off the book. Then it's back to writing.

So write, write, write, be available, kick off your books, write, write, write.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Dalya said:


> What is not worth it for me:
> * * *
> 5 Kissing *ss of strangers hoping they'll buy my book


This one makes me smile. One of the things that made me decide traditional publishing wasn't for me years ago was the necessity of kissing nether parts of strangers (agents and editors). The fact that the majority of the ones I met were the kind of strangers I'd never normally have anything to do with made the prospect even less appealing.


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## AKMartin (Jul 21, 2012)

I am not sure self-promotion sits well with many but at the same time always has to be done, by and far I think group promotions work best for all, with a number of authors getting together pooling resources , that way feels more like an exhibition of work , rather than a self-promotion exercise


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2013)

Ryan Sullivan said:


> What I will do: HAVE A WEB PRESENCE.
> Maintain my blog. Be _available_ on Facebook (author page). _Have_ a Twitter account and respond to fans, people who are interested, and be a real person. I won't link my book, but it might be visible in my profile. _Be_ on Goodreads and keep it up to date. I'm sure I can spend 30m or less on it to add a book.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm doing. And all I'm really going to do for the foreseeable future.

Time to get back to writing.


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## Linda Ash (Jul 13, 2010)

Joe_Nobody said:


> In my best Jeff Foxworthy voice:
> 
> If your cover is anything but a white background with plain black title - you might be a self-promoter.
> If you fill out a blurb - you might be a self-promoter.
> ...


Ha! I guess I'd have to agree with this. And by the way, for anyone who's interested, I also sell handspun yarns on Etsy, www.wisewomanherbals.etsy.com. (See how I snuck that in there? )


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

It's horrifying to think someone might succeed by adopting a strategy that differs from mine.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

I think of publishing as a business, and as with all business ventures, marketing is an important part, whether you do it yourself or pay someone else to do it.


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## L.Miller (Oct 17, 2012)

Not that I'm even in the same stratosphere most of the folks here are (still just developing professional habits, never mind a career), but this is something I do think about even now. One problem I've seen mentioned but not really expanded upon is reader resistance to advertising. I think it's even more prevalent among my own demographic, eighteen-to-thirty. To reach those readers really the best thing you can do is exactly what most authors are describing here: be there, generate cool content for a blog, don't sound like you're selling stuff.

I think one potential solution for some authors may be collaborating on projects with others outside our own art: artists, photographers, musicians. I'm thinking in particular of Neil Gaiman. I didn't find him browsing at the bookstore--he was mentioned in a couple times in a Tori Amos song and I became intrigued. I don't know, I just think people in the other branches of art have learned to build projects that raise visibility for everyone involved. It's something we could learn from.


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