# Raising Chickens and Poultry



## Annalog

Table of Contents (Thanks, Carol, for the idea!) Perpetually under construction. 

NOTE: March 2013 - It appears that Facebook has changed the URL of many of the older photos. I will fix the broken links in the future.

*Table of Contents* (In progress - page numbers assume oldest posts first and 25 posts/page)

Chickens
Order chicks: April 7(page 6)
Chicks arrive: May 19 (page 8-9)
First egg: September 21 (page 14)
Broody hen: November ()
Chicks hatching: December ()
Mr. Milquetoast: (page 24)
Chicken recognition: (page 24)
Other chicken photos:
Dominique bantams with German shepard (page 6)

Chicken feed recipe for free-range chickens
Soaking chicken to treat dehydration (page 31)
Chicken Moat (page 2)
Coccidosis info (page 11)
SCD - Sudden Chicken Death
Butchering and processing chickens

Ducks
Guinea fowl
Predators
Coops, Pens, and Brooders
Etsy (discontinued) Coop photo (page 4)
Chicken tractors (page 7)
Chicken coop tour: (pages 19-22)

Helpful Links: page 3 including Henderson's Handy-Dandy Chicken Chart, Things to consider and more links (page 7)
OCD/Monk (page 3)
The Good Life/Good Neighbors (page 2), Chicken coop (page 3)
Old garden plan (page 4)

Recipes
Egg custard
Deviled Eggs
Sponge cake and Tiramisu

Silly stuff:
KindleBoards Chicken Watch (page 6)


*Original post:*


Brendan Carroll said:


> Maybe we should start a chicken thread so we won't upset the sticklers?  But my bump today is related. I put away the last of my Christmas decorations today and restored my kitchen and dining room (too bad there's no quick restore button on them) anyhoo, that would be redecorating with the chicken collection. I'd love to see pictures myself. I'm going to be moving soon and maybe, just maybe I'll find the right place to raise a few or try my hand at it, at least. I would love to have my own fresh eggs.


As requested -- A chicken thread.  Some urban areas allow keeping a few (2-4) hens. (One chicken by itself does not do well.)



Carol Hanrahan said:


> Annalog, We want pictures! Are you anywhere near Bisbee? I LOVE Bisbee!


Do you want pictures before the chickens arrive?  Right now photos would show area with grey and red 12" concrete pavers and empty planter made from 8"x8"x16" cement blocks near a garden with winter-killed ferns (asparagus) and, 60' away, a 8'x12' white shed with faded blue trim raised onto on 4" peeled logs for the move. These would probably be boring pictures.  Now if I have the camera when the roadrunner or quail are out, that would be a bit more interesting.  Actually, it will probably take until this weekend before I can take photos as it is dark during the week when I leave home and return. 

After thinking about the chickens we had when I was young, I think I will probably buy a few bantam chicks as well as the other chicks (Barred Plymouth Rock and New Hamshire or Rhode Island Red).


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## Annalog

This year it *finally * looks as if we are actually going to get chickens. About 12 years ago we moved to an acre in rural Arizona (just outside Benson). About 6 years ago DH finally agreed that it would be OK for us to have chickens. (He is not crazy about birds but knows I like them.) I have spent the time researching, planning, and preparing a safe area for keeping happy chickens.

I will be ordering 25 chicks, probably in February or March. My current plan is 10 straight-run (as hatched) Barred Plymouth Rock, 10 straight-run New Hampshire or Rhode Island Reds, and 5 assorted bantam pullets. My primary goal is to keep chickens for eggs but also to be able to have a couple roosters (one Rock and one Red) so that we can let one or two of the hens raise some chicks each year.

I am having a difficult time deciding between the New Hampshire and the Rhode Island Reds. My understanding is that the Rhode Island Red roosters are more aggressive than the New Hampshire roosters. If it turns out that all of the roosters that we raise are aggressive, I will only keep the least aggressive one. Based on what I have read, the odds are that will be a Barred Plymouth Rock.

Reasons for keeping Barred Plymouth Rocks: Friendly, hardy, easy to keep chicken. Good dual-purpose chicken, good layer of brown eggs and good chicken for meat. Breeding Barred Plymouth Rock hen with red (New Hampshire or Rhode Island Red) rooster results in Black Sex-Link chicks (easy to identify roosters/pullets as chicks). I want to keep a rooster with the hens to maintain a flock of Barred Plymouth Rocks.

Reason for keeping New Hampshires: Good dual-purpose chicken, good layer of brown eggs and better chicken for meat. Supposed to be less aggressive than Rhode Island Red.

Reason for keeping Rhode Island Reds: Good dual-purpose chicken, better layer of brown eggs and good chicken for meat. Unfortunately supposed to be aggressive.

Whether New Hampshires or Rhode Island Reds, I want to keep a rooster with the hens to maintain a flock of red chickens.

Reason for keeping hybrid (Black Sex-Link) chickens: Hybrid chickens are often supposed to be better at production (eggs or meat) than either parent breed.

While I want to focus on eggs, not meat, I also do not want to have to worry about DH getting attacked by a rooster (or hen). If any of our chickens are to be butchered, I will be doing that to ensure that the chicken is treated well and handled properly.

Any advice on how to decide?


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## Rasputina

When we had the property, we have since moved, we had a variety of poultry. Chickens, mostly aracanas and bantums with a couple RI reds and orpingtons, geese, a mix of Africans and white Chinese and some turkeys. A couple of mallard ducks also and some guinea fowl. We ate the turkeys but the rest we kept for eggs and just because I enjoyed them. I miss having them, the geese were great watch dogs, but boy their droppings are high in ammonia. 

We choose breeds based on a combo of me liking their looks to how good of layers they were. If your flock will be small then I'd focus on the breeds laying season and possibly egg size. Although I didn't mind the smaller eggs the arcanas tend to lay because their eggs are so variable in color and pretty plus we always had more eggs than we could eat and I often ended up giving the extras to the pigs.


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## Brenda Carroll

Hey, great! I'll be getting back to this thread again for more information and yes, I want to see pictures as you build your area and get ready so I can have step-by-steps... just in case.


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## Annalog

Rasputina said:


> ... We choose breeds based on a combo of me liking their looks to how good of layers they were. If your flock will be small then I'd focus on the breeds laying season and possibly egg size. Although I didn't mind the smaller eggs the arcanas tend to lay because their eggs are so variable in color and pretty plus we always had more eggs than we could eat and I often ended up giving the extras to the pigs.


I am hoping to maintain a flock size between 12 and 18 hens. Even with small eggs from the few bantams, the Barred Rocks and either NH or RI reds should lay more than enough large brown eggs for DH and me, our local extended families, and our nearest neighbors (in hopes they won't change their minds about wanting to live near chickens ). If we have too many eggs, there are some people at work who have expressed an interest in occasional eggs.

In terms of the looks of the chickens, I grew up with a flock where no two chickens looked the same. I am torn between variety and maintaining breeds. I want to experiment with common traditional breeds before attempting the rarer ones.



Brendan Carroll said:


> Hey, great! I'll be getting back to this thread again for more information and yes, I want to see pictures as you build your area and get ready so I can have step-by-steps... just in case.


I will take and post photos. I also plan to post links to Web sites and books I have found helpful. For example, _Chicken Coops: 45 Building Plans for Housing Your Flock_

is a book I used to get many of the ideas that I hope to implement in my chicken coop. I liked the nesting box from one, the chicken run from another, etc. I think I saw the book at Border's a year or two ago. I bought it immediately.  The coops shown range in size from ones for a couple hens to large farm flocks.


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## kevindorsey

I've raised little chicklets as a child in an urban environment, and unfortunately it didn't end up with a happy ending    One of a chicks fell down from my balcony.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Awww, Annalog. I just got back from Tucson. Spent New Year's there! I must have driven through Benson on the way to Bisbee from Tucson? (That was last year's trip)
Back on topic: Great thread! 'Cept it makes me want chickens again..... 

When we were in Tucson, we went to a mini ranch where the owner raised the sheep, llamas, goats and alpacas to get the fleeces to spin her own yarn to sell. She gave us a tour, and the first group we encountered were the geese - she said they were fantastic guards for the property. Have you considered geese at all?

I agree about the RI red roosters being aggressive.


Spoiler



Ted, the rooster in my story Baling, was a RI red, although now come to think of it, I never stated it in the book!


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## Annalog

Off topic: Carol, on your trip from Tucson to Bisbee, you probably drove through either Benson (small town at junction of I-10 to SR-80) or Sierra Vista (large town on SR 90 quite a distance after leaving I-10).

On topic: I have not considered geese for a couple reasons. First, I never could get DH to agree to geese. (Chickens were hard enough!) Second, our property does not have either a fence or wall around it. Instead the fence at the front is only a boundary indicator so that people riding horses can see the edge of the drainage area and the only other fence (temporary) is around the vegetable garden attempt to keep the javalina out. (I suspect that it is the tumbleweeds that I let grow against the temporary fence that really keep the javalina out.  )

The vegetable garden will eventually be surrounded by gates and cement block planters topped with a welded wire fence. Around that will be a chicken moat (fenced chicken run surrounding the garden). The inital outdoor area for the chickens will be a chain-link dog run/kennel (8'x13')

Thanks for the confirmation about RI red roosters. I was leaning toward the NH instead. Also, the lighter color of the NH should blend in better. That might make them a bit less noticable to flying predators. (A concern even if all planned areas for the chickens will be roofed.)



kevindorsey said:


> I've raised little chicklets as a child in an urban environment, and unfortunately it didn't end up with a happy ending  One of a chicks fell down from my balcony.


Kevin, too bad about the sad ending -- a chick gone before its time.  How high was that balcony?


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## LCEvans

I love chickens! I had lots of them when we lived in Florida. One thing about straight run--every time I ordered straight run, I ended up with about 90% roosters.


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## Annalog

LCEvans said:


> I love chickens! I had lots of them when we lived in Florida. One thing about straight run--every time I ordered straight run, I ended up with about 90% roosters.


Your comment got me to calculate the difference in cost between ordering 70% pullets/30% male chicks versus straight run. $1.50 to $1.70 difference per 10 chicks for the breeds I am considering. (EDIT: Plus $1 extra fee each order type. That is still only about $5 extra to get the ratios I want. ) Thanks, I will probably order specifically pullets/males for each breed. Now I need to determine how many males I should buy in order to get one rooster that is friendly for each breed. My initial feeling is 3 Barred Rock and 4 New Hampshires. I order an extra bantam pullet instead. 

Revised plan:
6 Barred Rock pullets
3 Barred Rock males
6 NH red pullets
4 NH red males
6 assorted bantam pullets
---
25 chicks for goal of a dozen hens laying medium/large eggs, variety of bantam hens laying small eggs, at least one friendly rooster (hopefully two), at least one good broody mother hen, and only a few extra roosters. I will be able to convince DH that all extra roosters will end up at my mom's house (especially as most will). 

I am hoping that 18 hens and 2 roosters will get along OK. If not, I can set up a smaller coop for some of the hens and a rooster.


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## Carol Hanrahan

7 males?  Is that alot?  Or is that to get whittled down to just one or two?  Do you really need a rooster if you just want eggs?  Or will you want your flock to grow?


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## LCEvans

Roosters are fun and beautiful and you get used to the crowing. Send pictures when you get your flock. I remember how excited I was when my new hatchlings arrived. However, I raised quite a few eyebrows at work when I announced that I had to leave early to go by the post office and pick up some chicks.


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> 7 males? Is that alot? Or is that to get whittled down to just one or two? Do you really need a rooster if you just want eggs? Or will you want your flock to grow?


That is to get whittled down to just one or two. I want to maintain a breeding flock for a few reasons. 

First, I might want to raise heritage chickens and want to practice/learn on a couple more common breeds.
Second, I want to limit the chickens I add to the flock from outside. I am hoping to keep healthy chickens without medications.
Third, my mom will only eat organic chicken and has not been happy with what is available. While I only want eggs, I am hoping I can provide an occasional chicken for her. I think that 5 extra roosters should be about right to determine if I can continue with this plan. I also know that if I am going to breed chickens, I will need to cull them as well.
Fourth, I am curious about selecting for characteristics in breeding. I am also curious about hybrid chickens. That is why the Barred Rock/Red combination which results in Black Sex Link chicks. If I am able to provide chicken for my mom, I would prefer to identify the roosters early and not get too attached to them.
Fifth, I remember how much fun we had watching mother hens with chicks when I was young.

I also remember quite a variation in rooster temperament with the chickens we had when I was a kid. Some were mild tempered, some were mean, and some were in between (aggressive but not mean). My mom butchered the mean ones. Little Twerp was one of the roosters that was very protective of the hens, aggressive but not mean. He would attack if he thought we were a threat. On the other hand, he did not continue attacks after he made his point.


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## Annalog

LCEvans said:


> Roosters are fun and beautiful and you get used to the crowing. Send pictures when you get your flock. I remember how excited I was when my new hatchlings arrived. However, I raised quite a few eyebrows at work when I announced that I had to leave early to go by the post office and pick up some chicks.


Fortunately I am able to work from home sometimes. I plan to do that on the days the chicks are expected since I work an hour from home (and the post office where the chicks would be delivered).

I haven't even ordered the chicks and I am getting excited!


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## Carol Hanrahan

I think watching a mother hen with her chicks would be so much fun!  For now, I'll just have to enjoy virtually, so when you can, post pictures!  Hopefully SOON!


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## Annalog

Considering we still need to move the shed, disinfect it, add insulation, chicken door, etc., as well as order the chicks, it will be a while before I can post fun pictures. I did take photos this morning (shortly before sunrise) of the shed and the area where it will go. Very unexciting pictures so far. 









Future location of chicken coop (east of large shed and west of garden). The main part of chicken coop and part of chicken pen will be shaded by large shed during the hottest part of summer days. The large shed will also provide shelter from coldest winter winds. Mesquite trees will provide partial windbreak from winds from the northeast. Door will lead from chicken pen into future chicken moat (under tree and around garden to the right). (Garden to the right is planned to be surrounded by four 36 foot planters topped with fencing on the outside edge. Chicken moat to be fenced area surrounding outside planters.)









Current location of 8x12 shed that will be moved 60 feet and converted to chicken coop. Closest row of pavers is part of ramp we need to finish to get shed up to final location. Next row is where shed door will be. An interior hardware cloth wall will be added to separate small storage area from chickens. The interior wall will have a people door into chicken area.









Planter end showing 1/2 inch hardware cloth gopher barrier.

1/2 inch hardware cloth will also be used as rodent barrier on bottom of chicken coop and chicken pen. Gophers, rats, and mice are making our local lumber yard very happy each time I buy another 100 foot roll of 4 foot wide 1/2 hardware cloth! I have become good at folding hardware cloth boxes. (Origami knowledge is very useful!)


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## Carol Hanrahan

Looks good Analog.  What will be in the planters?  Flowers, vegetables, cacti?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Looks good Analog. What will be in the planters? Flowers, vegetables, cacti?


Perennial fruit -- Current plan is strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, grapes, kiwifruit. Planters inside the garden are for vegetables. East of the garden I hope to eventually have an orchard (currently two apple trees). On most of our acre, not visible in photos, we left the native plants. All the trees on our property were there when we bought it except for three we planted that are also native to the area (Arizona Ash and two Desert Willows).


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## Meredith Sinclair

Annalog said:


> Considering we still need to move the shed, disinfect it, add insulation, chicken door, etc., as well as order the chicks, it will be a while before I can post fun pictures. I did take photos this morning (shortly before sunrise) of the shed and the area where it will go. Very unexciting pictures so far.
> 
> Future location of chicken coop (east of large shed and west of garden). The main part of chicken coop and part of chicken pen will be shaded by large shed during the hottest part of summer days. The large shed will also provide shelter from coldest winter winds. Mesquite trees will provide partial windbreak from winds from the northeast. Door will lead from chicken pen into future chicken moat (under tree and around garden to the right). (Garden to the right is planned to be surrounded by four 36 foot planters topped with fencing on the outside edge. Chicken moat to be fenced area surrounding outside planters.)
> 
> Current location of 8x12 shed that will be moved 60 feet and converted to chicken coop. Closest row of pavers is part of ramp we need to finish to get shed up to final location. Next row is where shed door will be. An interior hardware cloth wall will be added to separate small storage area from chickens. The interior wall will have a people door into chicken area.
> 
> Planter end showing 1/2 inch hardware cloth gopher barrier.
> 
> 1/2 inch hardware cloth will also be used as rodent barrier on bottom of chicken coop and chicken pen. Gophers, rats, and mice are making our local lumber yard very happy each time I buy another 100 foot roll of 4 foot wide 1/2 hardware cloth! I have become good at folding hardware cloth boxes. (Origami knowledge is very useful!)


Nice work Annalog! Just a weird question.. Is there a pattern with the pavers? I followed your progress on the BUMP thread and wonder now what the deal is with the two different color pavers...   I just HAVE to figure this out!


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## Annalog

Meredith Sinclair said:


> Nice work Annalog! Just a weird question.. Is there a pattern with the pavers? I followed your progress on the BUMP thread and wonder now what the deal is with the two different color pavers...   I just HAVE to figure this out!


There is method to our madness. 

Grey pavers generally indicate where chickens will be and red pavers indicate where we will be. However, the two rows of red pavers in the middle of the grey pavers include two broken pavers and six pavers that are slightly different in size and surface than the rest of the pavers. These will be hidden under the coop. The next row that has six red pavers is because we ran out of grey pavers and did not want to buy more. The grey pavers beside the planter and the two in the front right corner represent where there may eventually be a second chicken door for that day, far in the future, when the chicken moat makes it all the way around the garden. The rest of the red pavers in the front represent the storage/people access area of the shed. The three rows of red pavers at the left, next to the large shed, is the people path between the chicken coop and the large shed. The open bag of sand marks the end of the coop and beginning of the pen.

I picked grey for the chicken areas as I suspect that the chicken poop will be a bit less noticeable on those than on the red ones.  

I still have some pavers to move and lay before we can put the chicken pen (dog kennel) in. The red pavers between the grey pavers close to the tree will be removed and six of the grey pavers will move to that end once it is filled and level.


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## Meredith Sinclair

Annalog said:


> There is method to our madness.
> 
> Grey pavers generally indicate where chickens will be and red pavers indicate where we will be. However, the two rows of red pavers in the middle of the grey pavers include two broken pavers and six pavers that are slightly different in size and surface than the rest of the pavers. These will be hidden under the coop. The next row that has six red pavers is because we ran out of grey pavers and did not want to buy more. The grey pavers beside the planter and the two in the front right corner represent where there may eventually be a second chicken door for that day, far in the future, when the chicken moat makes it all the way around the garden. The rest of the red pavers in the front represent the storage/people access area of the shed. The three rows of red pavers at the left, next to the large shed, is the people path between the chicken coop and the large shed. The open bag of sand marks the end of the coop and beginning of the pen.
> 
> I picked grey for the chicken areas as I suspect that the chicken poop will be a bit less noticeable on those than on the red ones.
> 
> I still have some pavers to move and lay before we can put the chicken pen (dog kennel) in. The red pavers between the grey pavers close to the tree will be removed and six of the grey pavers will move to that end once it is filled and level.


See, as I worked it out in my head I kinda thought that the red was for you guys... glad I was on the right thought path... (sorry, you had to go through that long explanation... I'm just a bit OCD. (OK, I'm almost as bad as MONK!) Can you imagine him going through there and doing that thing he does, tilting his head back and forth and holding out his hands in front of him?  

Great work, can't wait to see the chickens. We had Rhode Island Reds, Domineckers, and Bantams when I was growing up... and DUCKS... I LOVED the ducks! The RIR's were really huge!


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## Annalog

Meredith Sinclair said:


> See, as I worked it out in my head I kinda thought that the red was for you guys... glad I was on the right thought path... (sorry, you had to go through that long explanation... I'm just a bit OCD. (OK, I'm almost as bad as MONK!) Can you imagine him going through there and doing that thing he does, tilting his head back and forth and holding out his hands in front of him?
> 
> Great work, can't wait to see the chickens. We had Rhode Island Reds, Domineckers, and Bantams when I was growing up... and DUCKS... I LOVED the ducks! The RIR's were really huge!


I am also a bit compulsive and that is why I tend to write long explanations. I almost edited that reply to add that I tried to put the broken pavers where they would not be directly supporting the shed.  (I had to look up the Monk reference as we haven't had broadcast, cable, or satellite channels at our house for 4 or 5 years. The description of him tilting his head made me think of chickens and other birds. )


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## Brenda Carroll

Annalog said:


> I am also a bit compulsive and that is why I tend to write long explanations. I almost edited that reply to add that I tried to put the broken pavers where they would not be directly supporting the shed.  (I had to look up the Monk reference as we haven't had broadcast, cable, or satellite channels at our house for 4 or 5 years. The description of him tilting his head made me think of chickens and other birds. )


OK, Miss Annalog, thank you for the explanation you gave Miss Meredith who is liable to ask most anything about most everything...  but we love her anyway. Now I have two questions. One is on topic and the other is simply curiosity. First of all, we never had a 'chicken moat' that I remember. What is that? Secondly, if you had no broadcast, cable or satellite channels at your house, then what do you watch on your television? It always scares me to think that there are people out there without televisions....


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## Anju 

I'm fine with the chickens, just forget the roosters!  We always manage to have one across the street that wakes up east coast time!


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## Brenda Carroll

Oh, my how you tear out my heart, Miss Anju!  How can say such a thing about us fine crowing roosters?  You know one of my favorite commercials is that one with the woman in bed who is unable to sleep and then she sits up and there's a rooster sitting right on her footboard. I know how she feels, but you have to admit that's a fine looking rooster.


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## Annalog

Brendan Carroll said:


> OK, Miss Annalog, thank you for the explanation you gave Miss Meredith who is liable to ask most anything about most everything...  but we love her anyway. Now I have two questions. One is on topic and the other is simply curiosity. First of all, we never had a 'chicken moat' that I remember. What is that? Secondly, if you had no broadcast, cable or satellite channels at your house, then what do you watch on your television? It always scares me to think that there are people out there without televisions....


Answer to on topic question:
Similar to how a regular moat (wide ditch fortification often filled with water) surrounds a castle or town to provide a deterrent to people that would attack what is inside the moat, a chicken moat is a fenced area that surrounds a garden (usually vegetable) to provide a deterrent, in the form of chickens, to insects that would attack the garden. Essentially, it is a wide path fenced on both sides around the garden; the outside fence keeps the chickens from getting out (or predators from getting in) and the inner fence keeps the chickens out of the garden. The chickens get more room to run around and have more area for hunting insects. (EDIT: Also, similar to some regular moats, the moat can be empty or the gates can be opened and the area "flooded" with chickens. )

Answer to other question:
Don't be scared; we have a television (actually two but only use one).  We watch DVDs and video tapes. We also use the television for video games (Wii and original Nintendo). DH watches television more than I do, mostly because I have an hour commute in each direction and I attend yoga classes after work twice a week. I normally read or use the computer instead of watching television.

We used to have satellite service. We are out of range of broadcast TV without a very large antenna. The noise when the wind blew through the antenna was fairly loud. When we got satellite service, we took down the antenna. When DH realized that he was spending too much time watching TV, he decided to cancel the satellite service. Since I rarely watched TV, this was not a problem for me. He still spends almost as much time watching TV.  I sometimes watch a movie or old show (such as The Good Life/Good Neighbors) with him. I also spend one night a week with my mom. She tapes "Dancing with the Stars" and we watch that together.

On topic part of answer to second question:
It is highly likely that one of the roosters we keep will be named "Lenin" after the rooster belonging to the Goods. (About seven minutes in to this section of the second episode: 



) 
Some incarnations of the coop design have involved making the coop look a bit like the ones in "Chicken Run" with a 17 painted on the side. "Rocky" might be a good name for the other rooster, possibly the Barred Plymouth Rock although that is a different breed (Rhode Island Red) than the "Rocky" in the movie. (EDIT: On the other hand, a New Hampshire rooster looks a bit like a RI and could be named "Rocky" and the Barred Rock rooster could be named "Lenin" instead.) One of the old satellite dishes will be attached to the chicken coop with a heavy wire running to ground to serve as a lightning rod.


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## Anju 

Oh the roosters come and the roosters go, and they are handsome looking critters - just NOT at 4:30 IN THE MORNING


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## Annalog

Anju No. 469 said:


> I'm fine with the chickens, just forget the roosters! We always manage to have one across the street that wakes up east coast time!





Anju No. 469 said:


> Oh the roosters come and the roosters go, and they are handsome looking critters - just NOT at 4:30 IN THE MORNING


Thanks for reminding me to check again with the neighbors across the street. While we checked with our neighbors before deciding to keep chickens and roosters, I had forgotten that the neighbors across the street are new ones.

There are other roosters around the neighborhood but they are several houses (acres) away. We will be insulating the coop (walls, roof, and floor) which should help with the sound as well as heat/cold when the chickens are in the coop. In addition, for all but the neighbors on the side of the property where we will be keeping the chickens, there will be an additional building (either the large shed or our house) between the coop and the neighbors. (The ones closest to the chickens have said that they love the sound of crowing roosters and miss it.  ) Finally, DH is a light sleeper so I will use "crowing at inappropriate times" as well as "inappropriate aggression" as selection criteria for roosters that will end up at my mom's house. 

EDIT:


Annalog said:


> ... We are out of range of broadcast TV without a very large antenna. The noise when the wind blew through the antenna was fairly loud. When we got satellite service, we took down the antenna. ...


DH was the one bothered by the wind noise at night. I am sure he will be bothered by roosters that crow when he wants to be sleeping. I am sure that DH will alert me long before the neighbors do if we have a rooster that crows too often or too loudly.


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## Anju 

Our roosters and chickens are I guess what you call free-range, in the street, they roost in the trees, they drive the dogs crazy!


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## Meredith Sinclair

Annalog said:


> I am also a bit compulsive and that is why I tend to write long explanations. I almost edited that reply to add that I tried to put the broken pavers where they would not be directly supporting the shed.  (I had to look up the Monk reference as we haven't had broadcast, cable, or satellite channels at our house for 4 or 5 years. The description of him tilting his head made me think of chickens and other birds. )


Well, yes, Anna I do believe Monk could be compared to a chicken... in more ways than one. You can check him out on YouTube too... well, he used to have some on there, I'm not sure if he still does.


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## Annalog

Anju No. 469 said:


> Our roosters and chickens are I guess what you call free-range, in the street, they roost in the trees, they drive the dogs crazy!


That sounds like more than just free-range. Does anyone own them or are they wild?

We let the chickens loose during the day when I was a kid but they were always closed into the coop before the sun went down. (If we left them out too close to sunset, a coyote would get one.)


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## Annalog

Meredith Sinclair said:


> Annalog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am also a bit compulsive and that is why I tend to write long explanations. I almost edited that reply to add that I tried to put the broken pavers where they would not be directly supporting the shed.  (I had to look up the Monk reference as we haven't had broadcast, cable, or satellite channels at our house for 4 or 5 years. The description of him tilting his head made me think of chickens and other birds. )
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, Anna I do believe Monk could be compared to a chicken... in more ways than one. You can check him out on YouTube too... well, he used to have some on there, I'm not sure if he still does.
Click to expand...

I did find the following on YouTube. He did not look too chicken to me. Well maybe like a chicken as chickens are very brave when necessary.


----------



## Meredith Sinclair

Annalog said:


> Well, yes, Anna I do believe Monk could be compared to a chicken... in more ways than one. You can check him out on YouTube too... well, he used to have some on there, I'm not sure if he still does.
> I did find the following on YouTube. He did not look too chicken to me. Well maybe like a chicken as chickens are very brave when necessary.


OK... NOW I MISS MONK! Oh, no... his Final Season is over and all I have left of the time I spent watching him over the years are a few favorite episodes that are 'protected' on my DVR...    I am sooo sad now... I LOVE the 
"Monk Under Pressure" YouTube video.  I am such a huge OCD geek!


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog - That is such a neat idea of having the moat!  Now do the chickens really keep the pests out of the garden?  In theory it sounds great, does it really work?  I like the idea of them having a big run.
My aunt keeps hers in a fenced in yard.  Once a fox got in and killed almost everyone of her chickens - and would have if she had not arrived home in time to scare him away from finishing them off.  She told me that foxes will kill all the chickens, even though they can only carry one off at a time.


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Annalog - That is such a neat idea of having the moat! Now do the chickens really keep the pests out of the garden? In theory it sounds great, does it really work? I like the idea of them having a big run.
> 
> My aunt keeps hers in a fenced in yard. Once a fox got in and killed almost everyone of her chickens - and would have if she had not arrived home in time to scare him away from finishing them off. She told me that foxes will kill all the chickens, even though they can only carry one off at a time.


Carol, I do not know if it will really work for keeping pests out of the garden or not. (Certainly not until the garden is surrounded. ) I suspect that it will reduce the number of pests in the garden but not eliminate them. On the other hand, it will certainly provide more area for the chickens to range and more opportunity for them to eat various insects.

Part of what has delayed us getting chickens after DH finally agreed I could keep them has been ensuring that they will be as protected as possible from predators, rodents, and other hazards. I don't think we have foxes in the area but we do have cats, dogs, coyotes, javalina, skunks, hawks, owls, and snakes. A chicken-killing dog will also kill as many chickens as possible. The coop and pen will be surrounded on all sides, including top and bottom, with welded wire or metal with maximum opening of .5 inch.

The chicken moat, however, will not be quite as secure but it will be more secure than a fenced yard open to the sky. There will be welded wire fencing on both sides but the openings will be larger. The plan is to use the welded wire fencing with the closer spacing at the bottom to keep out rabbits, to cover the sides with bird netting or chicken wire over the welded wire fencing to keep out wild birds, and to cover the top with shade cloth or other material over welded wire. The top covering is to hopefully prevent wild bird droppings from falling where the chickens will have access in addition to providing much needed summer shade.

EDIT: Compulsive paranoia in overprotection of chickens -- Is that a sign of OCD? (Obsessive Chicken Defense)


----------



## Anju 

Annalog said:


> That sounds like more than just free-range. Does anyone own them or are they wild?
> 
> We let the chickens loose during the day when I was a kid but they were always closed into the coop before the sun went down. (If we left them out too close to sunset, a coyote would get one.)


They are owned by the house across the street, they do feed them, but that's all I am aware of. Sometimes some disappear but I don't know if that is from the street dogs that roam at night, or if they actually eat them, or other critters around like the free meal. They did have ducks, but the next door neighbor has taken them over and even tho they are out all day, at night they put them up. Also sometimes cars roaring down the street will make the flock smaller.

I have always been a city girl so this has been quite a watching experience for me


----------



## Brenda Carroll

Annalog said:


> That sounds like more than just free-range. Does anyone own them or are they wild?
> 
> We let the chickens loose during the day when I was a kid but they were always closed into the coop before the sun went down. (If we left them out too close to sunset, a coyote would get one.)


I've been wondering. If I get a place far enough from busy roads, can I just have a nice chicken coop and a small yard fenced off and just let the chickens roam free (outside the fence) during the day. Will they come home in the evenings on their own? I could have a fenced... well-secured top and bottom... for days when I would not be home to let them out and in. Would this work do you think?


----------



## Annalog

Brendan Carroll said:


> I've been wondering. If I get a place far enough from busy roads, can I just have a nice chicken coop and a small yard fenced off and just let the chickens roam free (outside the fence) during the day. Will they come home in the evenings on their own? I could have a fenced... well-secured top and bottom... for days when I would not be home to let them out and in. Would this work do you think?


I believe it depends on the neighborhood and the chickens. Our chickens did not range very far and there were enough houses that the coyotes did not come in very often. (Neighborhood dogs were a bigger problem for us when I was a kid. Where I am now, it is the wildlife that is the bigger problem.)

Chickens will come home to roost if they have already formed the habit of roosting where you want them to be at night. If they form a habit of roosting elsewhere first (such as in trees) then getting them to roost in a coop can be a problem.

It is definitely possible to keep chickens without the extensive work I am doing. As I mentioned above, I believe I have a case of OCD (Obsessive Chicken Defense).


----------



## Meredith Sinclair

Annalog said:


> It is definitely possible to keep chickens without the extensive work I am doing. As I mentioned above, I believe I have a case of OCD (Obsessive Chicken Defense).


Hmmmm... that is not the OCD I was talking about Annalog.


----------



## geoffthomas

Annalog,
Side note:
I must say that I applaud your selection of an episode from the Good Life.
When we lived in London for three years it was "new" and we loved the Goods.
We have the entire run on DVD now just because we like it - almost as much as Fawlty Towers.

sorry to digress.
Always loved their bits about chickens.


Just sayin......


----------



## Annalog

Meredith Sinclair said:


> Hmmmm... that is not the OCD I was talking about Annalog.


I am compulsive and easily become obsessed with various topics for short periods.  My daughter used to tell me I had OCD. I would say that since it did not interfere with my life, I could not have a disorder. She would reply, "But Mom, you make everyone around you crazy!"  Now she has a job in the public health field and says, "Mom, I agree that you don't have OCD. When I find out the name that describes what you do have, I will let you know."  For now, I can focus on Obsessive Chicken Defense!


geoffthomas said:


> Annalog,
> Side note:
> I must say that I applaud your selection of an episode from the Good Life.
> When we lived in London for three years it was "new" and we loved the Goods.
> We have the entire run on DVD now just because we like it - almost as much as Fawlty Towers.
> 
> sorry to digress.
> Always loved their bits about chickens.
> 
> Just sayin......


Thanks! We have them on DVD as well. DH and I have enjoyed watching the Goods since we first saw the show on PBS over 30 years ago. I remember the first time we saw the episode "The Early Birds." At that time, DH and I both worked in a toy store. It was December and we had been putting in very long hours. We had difficulty staying awake long enough to eat dinner after work. We laughed hysterically watching that episode; sometimes laughter is better than sleep. 

Back on topic : An episode, "Our Speaker Today," with wonderful bits about chickens including a very nice backyard chicken coop model:


----------



## ak rain

both places I have seen with chickens have danger from above - hawks- that go after chickens so watch for that.
sylvia


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## Annalog

We moved the shed farther than we expected. It now has less than 20 more feet to move.  More pictures below.









Shed viewed from where it will end up. The shed was turned 180 degrees during the move so that the door is on the far side.









View from far corner of house. Yucca is blocking view of where shed will end up. Tall (+6 ft.) yellow ferns is 4'x4' planter with asparagus. (I need to cut ferns down before spring. ) Pipes on left will become chicken pen (chain link dog kennel). I did not notice bird (hawk?) in the sky when I took the photo.









Our neighbor heard us using our ride-on mower when we were trying to move the shed. It took us over an hour to move the shed about 6 feet (downhill away from final location). Our neighbor saw us, came over, and asked us what we were doing. After we told him, he asked if we wanted him to bring over his tractor and help us move the shed. (He is semiretired and restores tractors at home.) With his help we turned and moved the shed to its current position. We were careful to ensure that the tractor did NOT drive over the septic tank.  However the shed did roll over septic tank with no problems. 
















The shed did put a dent in the awning downspout; fortunately the awning supports were not affected. One of the many holes that rodents made under the shed. We did not know when we only put pavers under the shed supports that we would have many problems with rodents. The rodents, especially gophers and rats, are why I garden with 1/2 inch hardware cloth, concrete blocks and pavers.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Lotsa progress being made here!


----------



## geoffthomas

I really appreciate the perspective you have given us of Arizona vegetable gardening.
My big problem is deer and rabbits and squirrels and chipmunks.  The chipmunks like to eat the crocus bulbs, among other things.
The rabbits just like to chew on anything green.
And the squirrels will jump into an enclosure secured from deer and rabbits and burrowing things and chew a tomato without eating it.

If we get a groundhog in the neighborhood, all is lost.  They eat a lot of everything.  And are not afraid of much. They have to be trapped and "eliminated" or the garden is gone.
But I never had to deal with gophers and rats - The chipmunks are actually kinda benign compared to them - I suppose?

Thanks for the pics and info - keep 'em commin'.


----------



## Anju 

I agree - love the pics!


----------



## Annalog

The gophers we have are pocket gophers, not the ground squirrels that are sometimes called gophers. (My mom, in Tucson, has problems with ground squirrels.) When I gardened in Tucson, I used to complain about the caliche (cement-like rocks/layers in ground) that required digging out with pick and crowbar. When we looked for property, I was happy to find an acre with no caliche. Little did I know that the absence of caliche would give the gophers and other burrowing rodents rapid underground access to my garden! My first realization came when I went out to the garden to harvest tomatoes and found that all the tomato roots and the bottom couple inches of stem had been eaten while the rest of the tomato plant was left hanging from the supports but with no contact with any remaining roots. Gophers love to eat the roots of almost anything but seem to especially like the roots of fruit trees, vegetables, and anything else I want to plant.  Now that I line all planting areas with 1/2 inch hardware cloth supported by cement blocks, the gophers seem to be stymied. 

We do have rabbits and deer in the area. The deer have not bothered us but apparently are a problem for nearby farms. There are often rabbits on our property (usually jackrabbits but sometimes cottontails) but the fencing seems to keep all but the young rabbits out of the garden. We often see one young rabbit watching us while we are working outside during the spring and summer. The rabbits have not been a problem as they seem to prefer the native plants instead of our vegetable garden. 

EDIT:


geoffthomas said:


> If we get a groundhog in the neighborhood, all is lost. They eat a lot of everything. And are not afraid of much. They have to be trapped and "eliminated" or the garden is gone.


It seems to me that our gophers are similar to a groundhog except that they mostly eat roots. Ours are not afraid of much. When one got into the garden, the garden was destroyed before we could get rid of the gopher. Once DH saw a pair sunning themselves in front of the large shed. They seemed to be laughing at DH. Some neighbors who have tried to poison them have said that they find the poison pushed out of the tunnels. Unfortunately that results in other wildlife, such as quail, eating the poison. I don't like to use poison. However, we did buy some rodent bait sticks that we put in the enclosed crawl space under our house where only very determined burrowing rodents could find it. (We had mice eat several holes in our home water supply during a bad drought a couple years ago and had to replace nearly all of the hot and cold water lines.) The crawl space is now enclosed by a block wall and we have not had any rodents under the house to eat the poison. YEAH!

I would like to have a King snake or a gopher snake decide to move onto our property. There are certainly enough rodents in the area to keep a snake well fed. While we have seen a few snakes on our property, none have stayed long. I would not want a rattlesnake to move in and those have been seen in the neighborhood.


----------



## Annalog

geoffthomas said:


> I really appreciate the perspective you have given us of Arizona vegetable gardening.


My current Arizona vegetable gardening is in a rural semi-high desert area. When I gardened in an urban area of Tucson, the main problems were dealing with caliche, providing drip irrigation, providing enough shade (growing lettuce on the north side of taller plants), choosing appropriate varieties (cherry and plum tomatoes instead of beefsteak), and growing vegetables during the correct season (cool weather plants in fall instead of spring). That seems much easier when I look back.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Do you have roadrunners?  What do they eat?  Oh, the snakes, I suppose....  I guess every location comes with it's own problems.  Think you got rid of one problem, then something else comes along.
Don't know how you would encourage the right kind of snake to come live there.


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## Annalog

Mostly we see the roadrunners eating lizards. According to Wikipedia: "It mainly feeds on insects, small reptiles, rodents, tarantulas, scorpions and small birds, as well as fruit and seeds." We have all of those on our acre.  We have a couple fairly large horned lizards that I hope never make a meal for anything else as they eat ants.

When I was moving and laying the pavers a week ago, DH and I saw a roadrunner hunting on our acre each day.

We are trying to have a garden and chickens while still encouraging most of the wildlife (including the tarantulas ). This is probably not the most sensible plan  and it is certainly not the easiest.  So far, the only wildlife we do not want around are the gophers, rats, and mice. However, for those rodents, we are only actively trying to prevent adding to their food sources. We do not try to kill them unless they cross the perimeter of our house. Unfortunately trying to remove everything that would support the rodents would also remove everything that supports the quail, roadrunners, lizards, rabbits, etc.


----------



## Annalog

Rasputina and any others who have kept a variety of chickens or poultry, did the various sizes get along OK as chicks? I am thinking of ordering 6 bantam chicks with 19 larger chicks. Should I be concerned about the bantam chicks surviving with the others? Should I order another larger breed, such as ameraucanas, instead of bantams?

Rasputina, you mentioned having chickens, geese, ducks, guinea fowl, and turkeys. Were these all together or separated? 

Thanks,
Anna


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## Carol Hanrahan

I wonder if a dog would scare the gophers away?  Do you have a dog?


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## ak rain

horned lizards are getting rare keep looking for them. Roadrunners were introduced to me as Paisanos (countrymen) I still like that name.
sylvia


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I wonder if a dog would scare the gophers away? Do you have a dog?


We do not have a dog. In order for a dog to scare them away, it would need to go into the burrows. We do have two cats but we keep them inside.

Since we do not have a fence or wall around our property yet, we cannot keep a dog or cat outside as they would either get hit by a car or could become coyote food.


----------



## Annalog

ak rain said:


> horned lizards are getting rare keep looking for them. Roadrunners were introduced to me as Paisanos (countrymen) I still like that name.
> sylvia


We do not see the horned lizards often but during the spring and summer I see fresh horned lizard scat daily from two different lizards (one much larger than the other).  We are happy to keep the large ant hills if only to keep the horned lizards fed and happy.

When I was digging in the garden in 2002 to bury a wire cage, a previous gopher deterrent attempt before I tried partially raised beds, I took these photos.








I was in a large hole (4'x8' that was about 3 feet deep) when I took the photos of this horned lizard. The lizard let me go into the house, come back with a camera, get back into the hole, and then take photos for about 10-15 minutes. It was an amazing experience.








It seemed as if the lizard wanted me to get various poses!








This lizard stood his ground!








The photos are as taken by the digital camera. The effects are only due to shooting the picture into the sun.

The following is from the same year but a different day. I almost missed seeing this tarantula on a pile of dirt. We do not kill tarantulas as they are a beneficial and long-lived spider. These spiders reach maturity at around 8-10 years. The males usually live about 10 years and the females about 20. I do not know which this is, but we kept seeing what appeared to be the same tarantula for about 10 years. We found a dead tarantula 2 years ago.  I have not seen one on our acre since. 









EDIT for on-topic content: Desire to protect various lizards has influenced fencing choices. Not only do we want to protect the chickens from various predators and pests but we want to protect the lizards from the chickens.  In addition, loose bird netting will not be used anywhere most lizards or snakes have access as we do not want the reptiles trapped in the netting.  The lizards have it tough enough evading the roadrunners; we do not want to add to their difficulties.


----------



## Annalog

ak rain said:


> ... Roadrunners were introduced to me as Paisanos (countrymen) I still like that name.
> sylvia


Sylvia, I had not heard that name for roadrunners. It is a good name.


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## Annalog

It has been years since I first looked into keeping chickens. I need to check into current information so I thought I would make a list of Web sites for reference. These are what I found from a quick search. I will add comments and sites as I have time to check them out or get feedback.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/
http://urbanchickens.org/
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/about/
http://www.urbanchickens.net/
http://urbanchickenunderground.blogspot.com/
http://www.madcitychickens.com/
http://citychickens.com/
http://www.mybackyardchickenfarm.com/
http://organicchickens.homestead.com/index.html
http://successwithpoultry.blogspot.com/2007/05/laying-hens.html
http://www.ithaca.edu/staff/jhenderson/chooks/chooks.html I am glad I found this again. It was useful in helping me pick which breeds I wanted (non-agressive, hardy in both heat and cold, good dual-purpose egg layers). I knew there was one other breed I considered that I had forgotten: Delaware. 
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/BRKPoultryPage.html
http://www.livingthecountrylife.com/animals/poultry/
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Happy-Homesteader/What-is-Your-Favorite-Backyard-Chicken-Breed.aspx
http://www.mypetchicken.com/default.aspx Has a chicken breed selection tool; answer six questions and it provides a list of breeds that fit the answers.
http://atlantachickenwhisperer.blogspot.com/
http://www.backyardpoultrymag.com/
http://www.gardengirltv.com/


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog, I was thinking of you this morning as I was fixing some eggs for breakfast for my son and myself.  Ok, it was almost lunch - he's a college student, still on break, and tends to sleep rather late.  But I'm enjoying having him home.
So I was wondering how long it will be before you are cracking your own eggs for breakfast!  Won't that be so fun!


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## Annalog

It will be fun. Good question. We hope to finish moving the shed this weekend. Then I need to clean the shed, add insulation, build a brooder, and order the chicks. I read somewhere that March is a good time to start chicks as then they mature as the days are still long. Chicks are supposed to take about 5 months until they are mature enough to start laying eggs. So, assuming I can get the coop and brooder built in time, DH and I should be eating the first eggs from our chickens in July.

EDIT: If the weather stays nice here, we might finish the coop earlier so we could have eggs in June. The breeds of chickens I am ordering are supposed to mature moderately early or very early.

EDIT: I will definitely order the chicks after insulating the shed and starting the brooder but probably before finishing the brooder.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog - update!  Update!  Any progress?


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## Annalog

Carol, I hope to have a great update to post later today. Yesterday I finished site preparation for the shed/coop. I assembled 4' and 3' wide sections of hardware cloth (welded wire screen) to make a 10'x15' mat to keep rodents out from under the coop. If the shed does not finish moving today, it is NOT because I did not get the site preparation done in time.  Plan for today: rotate the shed nearly 90 degrees while moving it to line up with the final destination and then move it about 20 feet to final location. I will post pictures later today. Hopefully the shed will be in place to turn into a coop.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

This is the first time I visited this thread.  I found it unexpectedly fascinating.  Now I'm hooked.  Better than a PBS series!

Betsy


----------



## Annalog

Betsy, thanks for the compliment! Now that I have to keep this thread going for my KB friends I cannot let anything stop me from getting chickens this year!


----------



## Annalog

Current weather reports are that a winter storm is moving in and should arrive in a couple days. It has been overcast and fairly cool for the past few days. However the weather stayed nice for this weekend. This was great for us as we needed the ground to stay dry in order to move the shed. 









Yesterday DH laid out 4"X4"x8' Trex with the goal of sliding the shed to turn it nearly 90 degrees and line the shed up with the final location. (These Trex pieces are several years old. We have used these for several purposes so far. Eventually these will be the base of a greenhouse.)
















Because of the problems we have had with various types of rodents, I want to make it very difficult, if not impossible, for rodents to get under or into the chicken coop. Therefore I want to completely cover the bottom of the coop with 1/2 inch hardware cloth (welded wire screen). The widest I can purchase this material is 4 feet wide. The shed is 8 feet wide and I need some extra to attach to the sides of the shed base. The picture on the left shows two 4' sections 15 feet long. The roll in the background is the remainder of a 100' roll. The picture on the right shows the finished 10'x15' mat where a 3 foot wide section has been added.
















The picture on the left shows a 3 inch wide section folded up along one edge. The picture on the right shows the result of adding second piece with a section folded down, interlocking the two, and then flattening to make a seam (four layers thick).
















To keep the mat from shifting, I put the 12" pavers on top of the leading and trailing edges.
















The tires on the ride-on mower needed air. However the threads on an adjustment bolt on the air compressor were stripped. (DH said it was the regulator that had the stripped threads.) DH sent me to Ace Hardware to get the next larger size bolt, tap, and appropriate drill bit. While I was gone, he moved the shed part way by lifting and sliding it using a digging bar as a lever. This chewed up the edge of the supporting 4"x4"s. Fortunately, about this time, our helpful neighbor with the tractor came over and offered to use his tractor to pull the shed the rest of the way around the turn.
















We then jacked up the shed, pulled the Trex out, put cement blocks underneath the shed. We slid logs under the shed and on top of the blocks. This raised the shed high enough so that it could be pulled onto logs on the paved area. Meanwhile, our neighbor drove his tractor back to his property and then backed up as close a possible to where the chicken coop will be. (EDIT: The tractor cannot be seen in the photo. It is on the far side of the mesquite tree that is behind the large shed.) The picture on the left shows the shed ready to move. The straps that went around the shed were attached to a chain that was attached to the back blade of the tractor. The picture on the right shows the blocks and one log left behind after pulling the shed forward.
















The picture on the left shows the shed, still up on the logs, after disconnecting the tractor and the strap. We sent our helpful neighbor home with promises of butterscotch brownies (blondies). (I delivered those a few hours ago. ) The shed is only slightly crooked but was moved farther than I had wanted.


Spoiler



"A Block Too Far" might be a good name for the movie. 


















I ran around taking photos while DH took a break.
















This area will get an 8'x13' chain link dog kennel converted to a chicken pen. There was planned to be just enough room to walk between the back of the pen and the mesquite tree. (The front of the chicken coop cannot be farther forward than where I put the pavers or it would be in the way if we ever have to access the septic leach line.)
















DH finished his soda so our break was over.  We rolled the shed forward about a foot. It was easy to push as the area is very level.  DH lifted the front of the shed with the lever and I pulled out the front log. The shed slid back a couple inches when DH set it down. That will just have to be OK.  DH lifted the back of the shed while I pulled out the rest of the logs. DH set the shed down without getting hurt. 









The Chicken Coop has landed!
















Look Ma! One hand! --- Boy this shed is heavy! (DH posed for photos. )
















We can finally open the door of the shed. It has not been possible for a while as the shed has not been sitting level. It may have been easier to move if it had been empty!























DH practicing for the caber toss! Putting the logs back into the front fence. How many more logs are there?

Next on my agenda: Empty, clean, insulate, remodel, paint coop.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog - So Impressive!  Great pictures!  I think those chickens are going to have a palatial abode!
I esp. loved "The chicken coop Has Landed"!  I see dark clouds in the sky though.  We are getting the first of these rains right now in So. Cal.  Is this the storm you will be getting?  Good thing it all got moved before it gets soggy - well, does it get soggy in the desert?
And now you can add "Origami hardware cloth specialist" to your resume!


----------



## Annalog

Carol, Thanks! Yes, we often see our storms come from So. Cal. It does get soggy in the desert if the rain has time to soak in before it runs off. Usually the winter storms soak in and the summer storms run off. The soil we have on our acre has very few rocks and is almost half clay. When it is wet, we can become several inches taller walking across the yard due to the accumulation of mud on our shoes.

I have found that it is fairly easy to fold hardward cloth as long as I am wearing good gloves!


----------



## ak rain

you are so making me miss home. I live in Alaska right now but I grew up outside Barstow CA. on the mojave desert. sometimes not often but sumetimes i miss that bright sun.
sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, I grew up in the desert and did not really understand until I was an adult how dark winters were in the north. It was not until I was sent on business trips to Sweden in the winter that I found out how it would be possible to see day only during lunch and sometimes not see the sun for weeks. However I did get to see more snow than I had ever seen before. 

I did appreciate it that the sun came out a few times today, twice while I was taking pictures.


----------



## ak rain

oh the sun and open and stars the desert would be great. the memories come from raising chickens too. I don't think I have seen so much work and detail going into preparations. i sure hope it goes well for you. I can still imagine the heat. as i said you put more clothes  on but only take so much off...
sylvia


----------



## Annalog

I especially like the combination of wide open valleys surrounded by mountains and hills.

I easily get overheated and often say the same thing about clothes. 

The work and detail is due to multiple factors. 


First, I am a compulsive and detail-oriented person. I am also what I call a "lazy perfectionist." I am willing to put work in up front if it means less work later. (No weeding or tripping where there are pavers, better conservation of water, less dust, ...)  Also, we are planning on retiring here. I am currently physically up to work now at 55 that I may not be able to do later. (The work and detail related to the chickens is trivial compared to that related to the vegetable garden and future orchard. The chickens will have a place in the future orchard as well. ) (


Spoiler



Another example -- What kind of person would use bullets for this answer? As my daughter has said, "Mom, it is not OCD but it is related."


)
Second, we have had so many problems with gophers, mice, and other rodents that I have nearly become paranoid about them. (Wait, it is not paranoia if the rodents are really out to get me and my stuff.  What they did to our water lines resulted in a long delay of both the chickens and the greenhouse, not to mention a long winter with no hot water. We became very good at taking SHORT showers. ) 
Third, DH does not want to deal with chickens but I am sometimes sent on long business trips. Therefore, I have to set up the chicken area so that DH can care for them without too much effort or getting in with the chickens. (DH only likes birds from a distance. It probably does not help that, when we were dating, Little Twerp (the rooster we had at the time) would attack him. ) A additional benefit is that whatever makes it easier for DH will also make it easier as we age  and fit with my innate lazy streak .
Fourth, both DH and I want to keep providing habitat and support for the local wildlife and limit our longtime impact on the desert while still enjoying gardening, chickens, model railroading, etc. We love sitting outside and watching the wildlife and the desert. (This may be futile as it seems many of our neighbors take the opposite approach. Our acre is becoming a refuge.) This has affected my choice of materials, location, methods, etc. The structures and garden are clustered where the ground was already disturbed due to prior activities on the land. The house was placed for best solar effect and least impact on fragile plant desert life.
Fifth, neither DH nor I want to have to deal with the aftermath of a predator getting at the chickens.
Finally, if chickens end up not working out for us, the coop can turn into a potting shed or something else.


----------



## ak rain

I would like to see it and it all makes sense to me. I hope the chickens follow the plan
sylvia


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog - any rain yet?  We've had it steady now since about 4pm last night.  I'd say it's getting soggy here.


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## Annalog

No rain yet. It is overcast and cool, less than 60 degrees F.

I am hoping that today I can attach the hardware cloth mat to the bottom sides of the shed. I may need to go buy some 1"x2" strips and drywall screws since I think the wood supports under the shed are too old to use staples.


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## Meredith Sinclair

Here is a pic. of what my brother's rooster "Rosey" who scared me to DEATH as a young child. He would spur my tiny legs anytime I went in the backyard! My brother used to scare me with him and let him out to keep me from bothering him and his friends...


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## Annalog

Meredith Sinclair said:


> Here is a pic. of what my brother's rooster "Rosey" who scared me to DEATH as a young child. He would spur my tiny legs anytime I went in the backyard! My brother used to scare me with him and let him out to keep me from bothering him and his friends...


What a terrible thing for your brother to do, especially if he was showing the rooster that you should be attacked! Aggressive hens are bad enough; aggressive roosters can be very scary.


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## sem

"aggressive roosters can be very scary." But properly cooked - very tasty!


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## Annalog

sem said:


> "aggressive roosters can be very scary." But properly cooked - very tasty!


That was my mom's approach to inappropriately aggressive roosters.  The rooster that was more aggressive than Little Twerp ended up on the table. Little Twerp would chase away any threats he saw to his flock.


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## Anju 

I am about to be aggressive to the stupid roosters across the street   they staryted at 4:30 AM - are they on East Coast time I wonder


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## Betsy the Quilter

One of our neighbors had a rooster for awhile.  Haven't heard it lately.  Either they ate it or a fox did.  

Btsy


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## Annalog

Anju No. 469 said:


> I am about to be aggressive to the stupid roosters across the street  they started at 4:30 AM - are they on East Coast time I wonder


Do you have any neighbors who turn on a light at 4:30 AM? Any motion-detection lights that go on? (I just checked an almanac and it should not be moonrise.)

Any possibility of help from your neighbors with the roosters? Can you suggest they throw a neighborhood barbecue? Or if you throw a barbecue, possibly in anticipation of your new house, could they supply the roosters?


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## Brenda Carroll

Any new pictures to share?  Just wondering...


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## Anju 

Surely you joke?  You didn't see the house across the street in another thread?  Roosters come and roosters go, but I think it is from the illegal rooster fights, or maybe they eat them.  These are the same people who had a dalmatian tied up on a 6 ft. rope, if it was that long, and it barked all all night!  No dog pounds here.  Oh I could tell you some stories about these people, but won't upset you.


----------



## Annalog

Anju No. 469 said:


> Surely you joke? You didn't see the house across the street in another thread? Roosters come and roosters go, but I think it is from the illegal rooster fights, or maybe they eat them. These are the same people who had a dalmatian tied up on a 6 ft. rope, if it was that long, and it barked all all night! No dog pounds here. Oh I could tell you some stories about these people, but won't upset you.


Dona, I posted the suggestion the day before I saw the photo in the other thread. I have had neighbors in the past where the best option was to move away. Good that you have a plan for a new house in place.


----------



## Annalog

Brendan Carroll said:


> Any new pictures to share? Just wondering...


It has been a soggy week in Arizona. This morning at my house there was sunshine followed by snow, hail, rain, more sun, more rain, etc. We are very glad we finished moving the shed before this storm system arrived! 
















The ground is soft and soggy. The high winds earlier in the week blew down the end of our fence. Fortunately this is really easy to fix. 
















We had so much rain that there is actually standing water as the ground is fairly saturated.































The mountains all around us have snow.









The sky is still cloudy.























I did get the wire cut on two sides of the shed. One side has the wire folded. After all sides are cut and folded, then I will attach 1"x2" wood over the top of the wire to finish it.


----------



## Meredith Sinclair

Annalog said:


> What a terrible thing for your brother to do, especially if he was showing the rooster that you should be attacked! Aggressive hens are bad enough; aggressive roosters can be very scary.


Well... he was a BOY... that is what they do right? He is a uear and a half older than me so he was young too... BUT Rosey scared me to death! I let the boys play GI Joes in the backyard and I played Barbies in the safety of my own room...


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## Trilby

http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=38844543


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## Annalog

Trilby,
What a beautiful chicken coop! Is it your husband who designed this or is it one you are considering for purchase? I love how the feed tube was made to look like a chimney. I also like how the use of a standard pet watering dish was used as a water source that could be refilled from outside the coop. (It looks just like one of the water dishes we use for our cats.) The covered outside ramp/staircase is adorable. It looks as if it could be used as a chicken tractor and moved around to give the chickens access to different areas of the lawn. It looks nice and compact for 2-4 hens in an urban setting.


----------



## Trilby

Annalog said:


> Trilby,
> What a beautiful chicken coop! Is it your husband who designed this or is it one you are considering for purchase? I love how the feed tube was made to look like a chimney. I also like how the use of a standard pet watering dish was used as a water source that could be refilled from outside the coop. (It looks just like one of the water dishes we use for our cats.) The covered outside ramp/staircase is adorable. It looks as if it could be used as a chicken tractor and moved around to give the chickens access to different areas of the lawn. It looks nice and compact for 2-4 hens in an urban setting.


I got an email from Etsy.com yesterday that had that picture in it. So I thought I'd post it  I'd love to have that coop myself, my girls have pets that I think would love to live in that house! lol I think it would work well with rabbits as well as chickens.


----------



## Annalog

Trilby said:


> I got an email from Etsy.com yesterday that had that picture in it. So I thought I'd post it  I'd love to have that coop myself, my girls have pets that I think would love to live in that house! lol I think it would work well with rabbits as well as chickens.


The description says it should work with bunnies. However I would think the rabbits might chew on the wood or would dig their way out of the bottom. (Since I have never kept rabbits I do not really know. However the Guinea pigs and hamsters my sister kept would chew on everything.) I would also probably replace (or cover) the chicken wire with welded wire (hardware cloth) because chicken wire will not stand up to determined animals, especially predators (including dogs).


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## Annalog

Finished cutting the excess hardware cloth today. While working on this, I have been thinking that I will need easier access to the east side of the coop. (I am getting too old to work in tight places. ) I was also thinking again about DH's suggestion that we put the chicken pen 90 degrees to the coop instead of in line with it. However, instead of the extra part of the pen sticking out to the west, I was thinking of putting it to the east. This means that I will not finish the planter on that side and will give access to that space to the chickens as part of the chicken moat. I will need to steal some space from one of the garden aisles.

Compulsive person that I am, I have an Excel spreadsheet for tracking garden info. While I don't normally recommend Excel for drawing, it has worked well for my garden. (Maybe using foot square pavers for the garden aisles has something to do with that. )









The garden is only partially complete. (North is at top of plan.) The south corner blocks (east and west) with asparagus are finished and growing asparagus. The attached square blocks are also finished. The south, east, and west 4'x8' areas need to be redone to prevent gopher access. The north section has not yet been started. None of the exterior planters are finished; the planter section that was the closest to being finished will now be part of the chicken moat. The bordering area in yellow is the planned chicken moat. The pale blue will be the exterior chicken moat fence. The grey area with darker grey dots represents the exterior garden fence (interior chicken moat fence). (


Spoiler



I am not excessively compulsive. I can make my garden unsymmetrical, well at least the bordering planters and access gates. 


) The vegetable garden plan is intended to support a four-year rotation plan: Legume, Fruiting, Leafy, Root. The areas identified as "Herb Cmpst Chickn" are intended to have compost piles or pots growing herbs or plants for the chickens.


----------



## geoffthomas

I am more impressed than I can tell you.
I have "raised bed" garden areas with 8 foot deer guard and 3foot rabbit fencing.
No need thus far to put a wire grid on the ground because all we get right now are the occasional small mole.
It is the hungry deer, rabbits or chipmonks and the capricious squirrels that I worry about.
I like the raised beds because it allows me to focus my soil improvement efforts.
I make my own compost - wonderful rich black humus and work it into the beds constantly.
Can't make enough to improve the "yard" so the grass and trees will just have to struggle on.

But I have never been as organized as you are.

I just had to say that.
I am enjoying your "blog" - please keep the progress pics coming.


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## Annalog

Geoff, the planning may be organized but some of the rest of my life isn't! Did you see the big tumbleweed in first picture I posted in this thread/blog? Tumbleweeds don't really belong in an organized garden!  Some of the planning is due to the several gopher setbacks and some is due to trying to think of ways to make sure that I can still be gardening when I don't have either energy or time. (Also, a lot of the garden planning was done in the evenings on business trips when I could not garden at all.)

I agree about focused garden areas (raised beds, sunken beds, etc.). When I gardened in Tucson, I used sunken beds to concentrate the water in addition to the compost.

Using 12" square pavers in the garden paths helps me conserve water in the garden, eliminates weeds in the paths, and provides a clean (not dusty or muddy) surface to walk on. Finally, the pavers also prevent me from accidentally kneeling on scorpions as they spend the day UNDER the pavers instead of under other types of surface cover that is easily disturbed by knees.


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## B-Kay 1325

Just thought I would ask "What's going on with the Chicken Coop?"  Haven't heard anything in a while and was just wondering.


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## Annalog

The last weekend of January had some sunny hours. I attached the hardware cloth to the bottom of the shed/coop-to-be. I then reassembled the planter next to the coop-to-be and moved the uncomposted remains of a couple compost piles into the temporary planter. (The compost piles were in two of the garden beds.) This is the planter from a previous post that I suspect will eventually become a walkway for the chickens and me. In the meantime it will make a good place to compost away from the garden beds. (I did not download the new photos so an old one will have to do. )









I found some unused insulation at the back of the shed/coop-to-be that I will be able to use between the roof rafters. I moved some items out of the shed but still have a lot to do inside the shed.

The first weekend of February: I spent most of Saturday working on a computer belonging to a relative. It was cold and rainy most of Sunday.

During the week I leave for work just after the sun rises and return home around sunset. Therefore not much gets done outside during the week at this time of the year.


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## B-Kay 1325

Thank you for the up-date.  I don't know anything about raising chickens but have found this thread to be very entertaining.  I can hardly wait until you tell us that you have actually put some chickens in the new coop.


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## Annalog

I think it will be at about a month before I can order the chicks. I think I will put a comfy chair in the coop so that I can read to the chicks from my K2. 
















Since the base of the planter is already in place, I decided to restack the concrete blocks to use as a temporary compost bin. Some brush piles and uncomposted items from a couple compost piles have been consolidated. The blocks placed sideways are so that nothing will fall into the holes when lifting a wheelbarrow full of stuff over the side. I also found some ancient bags of dehydrated squash chips to add to the compost pile. (I think I dehydrated those over 5 years ago; definitely stale!)
















Furring strips were used to finish the edges of the hardware cloth blocking rodent access to the space between the 4x4 joists under the shed. (There is a large tumbleweed in the background of this picture that will eventually be composted. Tumbleweeds compost easily but have a lot of seeds. Fortunately the little tumbleweed plants are easy to identify and pull in a garden. When very small they are also tasty immediately after pulled up.  However wilted tumbleweed plants are hazardous to eat due to the possible existence of alkaloids.)

I use a homemade sifter to separate composted from uncomposted items. (The expanded metal screen is similar to those used to protect screen doors.) DH made this for me more than 25 years ago to separate pieces of caliche from the rest of the soil when I was gardening in Tucson. The length of the legs in back was to allow the screen to be supported over a wheelbarrow while using the front handles for shaking the soil through the screen. It turned out to be much faster to just prop the screen over where the soil should go, throw the dirt at the slanted screen, and let the larger pieces (rocks, sticks, etc.) fall down the front to be scooped up.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog,
Great to see your progress.  I've been gone for 3 weeks - but you've been busy!  Can't wait to see the little chicks!


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## Annalog

This weekend I was able to empty the shed (or at least clear the floor ). I tried to sweep out the dust but it was too fine so I used a ShopVac to remove the dust and spider webs. I talked with a local feed store owner and verified that March/April was the best time here to raise chicks. I also checked that bleach would be fine to use on those areas where there appears to have been mold or mildew. The first picture shows looking into the shed to the back wall (north) and the next shows the front wall with the door (south). I think we will only need to add insulation to the ceiling, the south wall and door, and between the studs of the south 4 feet of the east and west walls. Since the chickens will not have access to those areas, I won't need to worry yet about protecting the insulation from the chickens. Also, this is the area that will receive the majority of the summer heat. If I need to insulate any walls in the chicken area, it will be the east wall with the window.
















I stapled the hardware cloth to the top of the threshold and on the floor along the inside. The door now closes easily from the inside as well as from the outside. 
















I will need to screen the inside opening of the turbine fan with hardware cloth to keep curious chickens away. I love how no rain comes in this opening.  The two light fixtures and the lower shelf will be moved into the bigger shed. The upper shelf will stay but I will probably need to screen out the chickens. I am thinking of having doors hinged from the rafters and attaching to the bottom front edge of the shelf when closed and to the rafters when open. I will still need to screen in the ends of the shelves and extend the shelves into the areas between the 2x4 studs (or at least block those areas with hardware cloth).


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog, will you be working more on the chicken palace this weekend? 

Do you place an order for the chicks, or just get them from the feed store?


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## Annalog

I am not sure how much I will get done on the chicken palace this weekend or next. I am leaving for town in a couple minutes to donate blood at the Red Cross followed by working on a computer for a relative. Tomorrow my mom, sister, and I will be participating in a charity walk. Next weekend is Matsuri (A Festival of Japan) in Phoenix where I will be helping teach origami in the booth and helping with the origami exhibit.

I am planning on ordering the chicks. If everything works out, maybe I will get a couple turkey poults from the feed store next year.


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## Annalog

I cleaned half of the chicken coop-to-be with a bleach and water solution. However it is now raining with 100% chance of rain tomorrow. 

For those interested, I need to put in a door for the chickens so that it will be a two-door coop.  (See How to tell you grew up in the suburbs...) However, I do plan on putting in a third door eventually. What will it be then? Still not a sedan. 

EDIT: Removed spoiler tag.


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## luvmy4brats

Hatchback??


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## Annalog

luvmy4brats said:


> Hatchback??


Yes!  (The third door won't go in until I want to separate the chickens by breed and have the hens hatch chicks!)


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## tessa

luvmy4brats said:


> Hatchback??


very good !

tessa


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog - I've been wondering about your chicken coop!
I've been spending an inordinate amount of time over at the bald eagle thread (Kindleboards photo gallery)  I don't know how to do the link.  Been watching the eagle cam.  Has anyone else?
I really want one of those portable chicken coops!


----------



## Annalog

Carol, those portable chicken coops are very nice, especially for a few hens. Thanks for mentioning the Bald Eagles thread. I had not seen it.

Yesterday the forecast for today was 100% chance of rain. Now it is 90%. We still have not seen rain but the wind has been strong all day.
















This morning I started cutting extruded foam insulation for the ceiling of the coop-to-be. This is 2'x8' tongue and groove one inch thick insulation we had left over from a couple years ago due to replacing spun fiberglass insulation under our house that had been ruined by packrats. (The packrats had only gotten to the insulation under half of the house. ) The saw, yardstick, cutting guide, and spring clamps shown are the same ones we used back then.  Due to the wind in the morning, I worked in the area between the two sheds.  The first picture shows just after cutting a 14.5" section; the second picture shows just before cutting the last 14.5" section from what was an 8 foot long panel. Of course I moved the yardstick out of the way and the insulation over so that I did not try to saw through the stick or the cement blocks. 
















The pieces of insulation fit between the 2x4 roof joists flush with the bottom edge and with an air space between the insulation and the roof. The tongue on one piece fits into the groove in the adjacent piece. (I will be glad when DH moves those lights out of the shed. )
















The turbine fan cannot be covered so I left that area open.
















While I was working on insulation (and taking pictures ), DH started digging the trench to carry electricity to the coop-to-be. While the coop and larger shed will eventually use solar power for most purposes, the chick brooder and power tools in the larger shed will need more power. DH is digging the trench at an angle to avoid disturbing the anthill that helps keep the horned lizards fed. 






































DH said, "My dad said I could not dig a straight trench. He is right but I can straighten a trench after I dig it." DH can also dig a straight trench when there is a guide line (or pavers) marking one edge.  This trench eventually needs to be 18 inches deep so it needs to be another 6 inches deeper. DH did not disturb either of the two water lines that cross the trench. 









The wind speed increased so that I could not cut the insulation outside. Since the clouds started moving in, we stopped for lunch. I downloaded the pictures from my camera, reduced their size, and uploaded them to my Facebook page. However, while it was still very windy, it did not start raining. I moved my insulation cutting to inside the coop-to-be and finished over half of the ceiling. It is already much warmer inside the coop. 

Next weekend we put in the flooring. I saw that the plastic wading pools are now available. As soon as we find someone we can borrow a truck from, we will bring one home to form the base of the chick brooder. This week I will get the two heat lamps and some other materials. If all goes well, I will be ordering chicks in the next two weeks.


----------



## Annalog

Lots of delays, mostly for good reasons (visiting granddaughters) but one not so good reason. 

I have the heat lamps and the plastic wading pool but the flooring did not yet go in. The trench is just over 1/2 finished, i.e. it is 18 inches deep for 1/3 of the length but not quite that deep for the other 2/3. DH was working on the electrical boxes when his electric screwdriver went into the index finger of his left hand. After cleaning and bandaging his finger I went outside to put away tools and lock up. When I came back in DH agreed that we should drive to urgent care as neither of us liked look of his finger and the injury was at the first joint. We saw the nurse about an hour later. She asked DH questions and started his finger soaking in bowl of something red. During the doctor exam we were happy to learn that all DH needed was antibiotics (he had a tetanus shot about 4 years ago) and prescription strength ibuprofen. Also, DH did not appear to have damaged the nerve along the outside of the finger as the feeling was coming back. We were both glad that we had taken the granddaughters back to their mom (our daughter) before DH's minor injury!

The ordering of chicks will have to be in April.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Oh, my, it makes me cringe reading about it (similar to people sewing their fingers with the sewing machine).  Did he need stitches?  How's he doing today?

Betsy


----------



## Annalog

He is feeling better today. No stitches but the wound opened and bled when he took off the bandage after his shower. I added more of the antibiotic ointment along with a new bandage. He is doing fine now. (He is napping in his recliner. )

Following spoiler to prevent more cringing. It is also off topic. 


Spoiler



When I was 14 or 15 I put a sewing machine needle through the middle finger of my left hand. The needle went through the nail, missed the bone, and came out the other side and hit the plate of the sewing machine since my hand was moving the fabric. It took a few seconds for me to figure out why the machine had stopped sewing.  I was also surprised that my finger did not hurt. I backed the needle out of my finger and it still did not hurt and it was not bleeding. Then I shook my hand, blood started flowing, and my finger hurt! 


 That turned out OK as well.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I was just telling someone yesterday that quilters occasionally sew through their fingers!  Glad yours turned out ok!  And that your husband is doing well.

Betsy


----------



## Annalog

I was sewing a patch (actually two -- a dragon combined with a flame) on a pair of jeans when I sewed through my finger.

DH felt so much better after his nap that we put the pegboard up over the ceiling insulation. As soon as we get electricity out to the shed/coop-to-be I am ordering the chicks. I am not waiting to finish the floor as I can finish the floor later.


----------



## Annalog

Finally finished digging the trench today! DH cannot dig long as the wound in his finger starts bleeding. I cannot dig long as I do not have the arm strength necessary. Also, I needed to stand in the trench to reach the bottom and DH dug it less than a foot wide. Unfortunately I am wider than that! I had to stand with one foot behind the other.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog,
Sorry to hear about all the injuries!  Hope your DH is mending!
Happy to know things are moving along on the coop!  When will the chicks arrive?  And what kinds are you getting?  Don't you just love Spring?  Baby chicks and baby eagles and planting of the roses - that's what I did today.  I have a few too many rose bushes you see......


----------



## Annalog

Carol, I do not know when the chicks will arrive. With the trench to get electricity to the coop finished, I went online to order the chicks a short while ago.   The hatchery I want to order from, as well as all the others I checked, are out of the chicks of the breeds that I want. The site for the hatchery I want to order from says that the three breeds that I want are sold out until May. The breeds I want are Barred Plymouth Rocks, New Hampshire Reds, and Ameraucanas. I would be happy with assorted bantams in place of Ameraucanas. This particular hatchery will not let me order online for chicks that are not available in the next four weeks. Therefore I will be phoning them on Monday to see if they will let me place my order that way for a future date when I can order:

6 Barred Plymouth Rock pullets,
6 New Hampshire Red pullets,
6 Ameraucana pullets (or assorted bantam pullets),
3 Barred Plymouth Rock males,
4 New Hampshire Red males

25 chicks

EDIT: I am upset with myself for not ordering the chicks earlier as soon as it looked like we would be ready for the chicks in April. However I wanted to be sure we would be ready for the chicks when they arrived. At least I know we will be ready. However by May I will need to worry more about keeping the chicks cool than about making sure they are warm enough.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Who would have thought a hatchery would be sold out?  How far away is the hatchery?  Do you try to stay local so the chicks don't have to travel too far?  Or does it matter?


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## Annalog

The hatchery I want to order from,  Ideal Poultry Breeding Farms, is in Texas which is fairly close. Most of the popular hatcheries appear to be sold out of pullets and straight run chicks while males are available. March and April (spring/Easter) are the most popular times for chicks so I should not be surprised.

I chose Ideal because they are certified as Avian Influenza and Pullorum-Typhoid clean and they do NOT automatically vaccinate for Marek's Disease. Many hatcheries automatically vaccinate for Marek's Disease. My understanding is that the vaccination of a bird for Marek's Disease will bring the disease with it and that all later birds must also be vaccinated for Marek's Disease. Since the disease does not seem to be prevalent in this area, I would prefer not to have my chicks vaccinated.

I have decided that when I phone tomorrow that I will simplify my order which should result in earlier chicks. I have decided on:
12 Barred Plymouth Rock straight run chicks
13 New Hampshire Red straight run chicks


----------



## Annalog

A few advantages to the delay:
Ordering straight run and only two types will be less expensive.

I should have time to finish the floor.

I will definitely will have an opportunity to learn about providing chicken for the freezer. Also that may be delayed to when it is a bit cooler.

I will be more likely to order turkey poults along with more chicks of different breeds next spring.

I will have more incentive to put in timed lighting to encourage egg laying this fall/winter so that the hens do not moult  this winter. Also more time to learn if I have any hens that become broody.

/Posted from K2.


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## Carol Hanrahan

You posted that from your K2?  I'm impressed.


----------



## Annalog

Yes, my previous post was posted from my K2 and then when I saw I had left out a couple words, I edited it from the K2 as well. The post before it was also edited from my K2 when I saw it was missing a word. A post I read said it had been posted from their Kindle. I figured that meant that either KB had changed its logon protocol or that Amazon had improved the Kindle browser so that it could handle the KB logon. I suspect the latter.  My K2 remembers that I am logged on just as it remembers my Gmail logon. Of course those are forgotten sometimes during a reset. It is handy when I am away from computer access.

What does not work is anything that requires cursor coordination, such as looking at spoiler text, or multiple windows, such as spell check. Preview also did not work. As long as the post can be done with normal typing, it seems to be working fine. (I also turned off images so that the pages would load faster. )


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

How do you turn off images?
When I was visiting my Dad last Feb., I did use my K2 to check Kindleboards, but never considered posting from it.  Now, I will have to figure it out!


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## Annalog

While in the browser or browser bookmarks, press the Menu key. Choose Settings from the Menu. This will bring up the browser settings page. One of the choices ie Disable/Enable Images.  

In order to logon and post, I use Advanced mode on setting menu and have Javascript enabled on the setting page..


----------



## Annalog

I received an electronic indoor/outdoor thermometer for my birthday. The outdoor part is wireless with a range of 100 feet. Last evening I finally put batteries in the two parts and put the outdoor part on the shelf in the chicken coop and the indoor part a shelf on the wall closest to the coop but in the house. The low and current temperature is 45 F. I will check the high tonight.

EDIT: The high was 85 F. I am definitely going to need to adjust the brooder temps for day/night.


----------



## Annalog

I received two e-mails from Ideal Poultry. The Ameraucanas and New Hampshire Reds are available for me to order by phone for shipping on May 17, 2010. Hopefully I will be able to order the Barred Plymouth Rock chicks as well.


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## B-Kay 1325

Annalog, I watched the Martha Stewart show totally devoted to Chickens this weekend and thought about you.  It was a very interesting program and I throughly enjoyed it.  A lot of the audience were there with thier own chickens.  She had a lot of information about raising chickens and receiving chicks through the mail with all the particulars about what to do when you receive them.  The FLN channel runs reruns of her shows from the previous week on the weekends early in the morning.


----------



## Annalog

Thanks for the information B-Kay! I just checked her site and it looks as if the show (or at least some more information) will be  is already in the show archives tomorrow or the next day. Since DH and I do not have access to broadcast, cable, or satellite TV, the Internet will have to do.  EDIT: I will watch it tonight.  Second edit: Apparently this is just a preview until sometime in the future. 

I already have the heat lamps. I have checked out our three local feed stores and will be picking up the non-feed supplies (pine shavings, feeder, water dishes, etc.) this weekend. I will wait until the week before the chicks arrrive to buy the chick starter feed (unless I get enough space cleared in the freezer).


----------



## Annalog

I phoned Ideal Poultry and the person I spoke with suggested I wait to order until I get the third e-mail saying the Barred Plymouth Rock chicks will be available. I expect that will be in the next few days and the two e-mails I already received say I have until April 7th to place my order and not lose my reservation for the chicks. Due to this, I have once again changed my planned order. If nothing else changes, I will order:
10 Barred Plymouth Rock straight run chicks
11 New Hampshire Red straight run chicks
4 Ameraucana pullets

25 chicks

The order is simplified but I will still have three types of chickens. I will just cross my fingers that the standard run chicks will not be more than 60% male. I will also hope that all four Ameraucana chicks will be pullets even though the Ameraucana roosters have beautiful coloring. 

EDIT: Actually, as long as the straight run chicks are no more than 80% male, I will have enough hens to hatch chicks for next year.


----------



## Annalog

My chicks are ordered and will be shipped on May 17th. They should arrive on the 18th or 19th! I am so excited!       

EDIT: The wiring will be finished this weekend. I hope to finish the flooring the following weekend. I will work on setting up the brood area and adding insulation and pegboard to the south walls. After that I will work on the interior wall and the outside pen area.

Yesterday the high temperature in the coop was 77 F and the low last night was 37 F. I need to start looking for a thermostat to control the electricity to one of the two heat lamps so that one can be on all the time and the other can be on only when it is cooler in the brood area. The chicks are supposed to be kept at 95 F day and night for the first week and then the temperature should drop by 5 degrees a week until the temperature reaches 70 F.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Ohh, Annalog!  How exciting!  Now that the chicks are ordered, you really have a deadline!  That will spur you on - like you even need that!   Still it will be more exciting working on the coop now that you know it will soon be full!  We want pictures of course!


----------



## Annalog

I will certainly take and post pictures. 

Today I was reminded that I will be away on vacation in Sedona for a week in early June when the chicks are less than a month old. DH could not get the week off so he will be home after the first three days. We will need to make arrangements for chick-sitters while he is gone.

EDIT: Added missing spaces and letters that I missed when posting from K2.   Also, I will still be gone the entire week as this year my mom can come to Sedona with us.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Chick-sitters!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Chick-sitters!


 Too bad we cannot get a couple broody hens to come sit on our chicks!  (Wait, at three weeks they should be too big to fit under a couple hens. )

When I corrected my K2 typing in the earlier post, I used the Spell Check feature. It wanted to change "chick-sitters" to "hucksters". I do NOT want hucksters to watch my chicks!  (Neighbors and coworkers of DH are the most likely candidates for our watchers of chicks. )


----------



## Annalog

Thanks to the information from B-Kay, I just finished watching the Martha Stewart Chicken show. It is possible to watch the entire show or to watch segments (~ 10 min) of the show. There is a commercial before each segment.


----------



## Annalog

Yesterday DH finished the electrical wiring and put the florescent lights back up. The switched outlets worked! (Today his parents came to visit. His dad, an electrician, checked the wiring and found DH had wired it incorrectly. We would have been shocked if we had used it while grounded. It is now wired properly!) I insulated the door and part of the south wall before running out of Liquid Nails for Interior and Foamboard projects. 

This morning DH and I were discussing the interior wall and the planned nesting boxes. Of course the plan for the wall has changed once again.  Now the door into the chicken area will be on the east and not lined up with the exterior door which is on the west end of the south wall. Instead the nesting boxes will be on the west end directly in front of the door. The opening for the movable nesting boxes will be big enough to push a wheelbarrow through when it is time for completely cleaning the coop. Since the two doors will not be lined up, that will make it a bit more difficult for chickens to get out if the exterior door is left ajar accidentally.


----------



## jamaesi

This should be a good first post for me, here are some pictures of my dominique bantam hens when they were just little peeps along with Mr. Mom Zahi, my German Shepherd dog. They're called German /Shepherds/ for a reason, they're herding dogs!  Zahi loves herding his chickens around the lawn and keeping them safe from any prowling cats or raccoons.



















And here they are all grown up "enjoying" the couple feet of snow that was recently dumped on us. Raya is in front, Sakina is behind her.










I also have two Australorp hens, Calaeno and Asterope. The Australorps are great layers and the bantams, amazingly enough, are as well. I get 1-3 eggs daily from my little flock. I couldn't ever imagine eating my own chickens, eggs are all I want from them. As a bonus they take care of kitchen scraps, provide free landscaping as they edge along the fence and garden beds so we don't have to, and to top it all off they de-bug the lawn. They're also free entertainment- it's so fun to watch them go about their day. What more could you ask from them?


----------



## Annalog

jamaesi said:


> This should be a good first post for me, here are some pictures of my dominique bantam hens when they were just little peeps along with Mr. Mom Zahi, my German Shepherd dog. They're called German /Shepherds/ for a reason, they're herding dogs!  Zahi loves herding his chickens around the lawn and keeping them safe from any prowling cats or raccoons.
> ...
> And here they are all grown up "enjoying" the couple feet of snow that was recently dumped on us. Raya is in front, Sakina is behind her.
> ...
> I also have two Australorp hens, Calaeno and Asterope. The Australorps are great layers and the bantams, amazingly enough, are as well. I get 1-3 eggs daily from my little flock. I couldn't ever imagine eating my own chickens, eggs are all I want from them. As a bonus they take care of kitchen scraps, provide free landscaping as they edge along the fence and garden beds so we don't have to, and to top it all off they de-bug the lawn. They're also free entertainment- it's so fun to watch them go about their day. What more could you ask from them?


Jamaesi, thanks for sharing the pictures of your hens with us.  Your hens are adorable and you are so lucky to have such a good dog for guarding your chickens. I bet Mr. Mom Zahi also protects your hens from other dogs as well as from the prowling cats and raccoons. With all of that snow, I bet you have a nice cosy coop for your hens. I am looking forward to hearing more about your chickens and seeing more pictures. 

I am honored you decided to put your first post here!  You will also want to post in Introductions & Welcomes so that others can welcome you to KindleBoards.


----------



## angelad

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Ohh, Annalog! How exciting! Now that the chicks are ordered, you really have a deadline! That will spur you on - like you even need that!  Still it will be more exciting working on the coop now that you know it will soon be full! We want pictures of course!


Yes, pics or it didn't happen


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## Annalog

angelad said:


> Yes, pics or it didn't happen


Fairly boring pictures of the pegboard ceiling, lights, lightswitch, conduit for the wiring, wireless thermometer, and filled in trench? With materials in the way for the next activities, the coop is currently quite messy. OK, I will try to remember to take pictures and post them tonight.  I ordered the chicks by telephone and did not receive an e-mail confirmation therefore I won't be able to take a picture of the order.  The chicks won't arrive until mid-May; unless I have access to a time machine, pictures of my chicks will need to wait until they arrive. 

EDIT: Photos of new work on coop will need to wait for another day.


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## Carol Hanrahan

We'll wait with you, Annalog!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> We'll wait with you, Annalog!


Does that make it a KindleBoards Chicken Watch?


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## Carol Hanrahan

Absolutely!

My DD1 is vegan, as she is against animal cruelty.  I asked her this weekend if I had hens in the backyard, and took good care of them, would she eat the eggs?  She said yes.  Unfortunately, DH would have a cow if I did, and I have two golden retrievers.  DD1 is away at college, so the whole scenario would never happen.  Maybe some day, but not very soon!  Oh well...... 

So I'm living vicariously through you, Annalog!


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## Annalog

Photos to prove it happened:






















Conduit with wire in trench at least 18 inches deep from house to chicken coop.























Wire waiting for outlets and switches. Pegboard up on ceiling to cover wire and insulation.























Trench filled in from house to chicken coop.









Wireless thermostat and styrofoam insulation waiting to be installed.























Let there be light! Let there be light switches! (Lights plugged into pair of switched outlets. Other outlets are not controlled by the switch.) Insulation on door and part of south wall. Waiting for corners to be framed to finish so that I can put up more pegboard.


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## Annalog

Carol, if you keep chickens and DH has a cow and you both treat them well then DD1 could have eggs AND milk and cheese.  Of course then DH would need to figure out what to do with the calves or he would end up with a herd! Could the retrievers be taught to herd cows? 

EDIT: If the retrievers were busy herding the cows then they might be too busy to attempt to retrieve the chickens.


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## Annalog

When does a KindleBoards Chicken Watch start? When the chicks are ordered (April 7th)? When the chicks are shipped (May 17th)? When the eggs are put into the incubator (April 24/25th)? When the eggs are laid (up to 10 days earlier - April 14th - 24th)? When the eggs are fertilized (a day earlier - April 13th - 23rd)? When the hen and rooster mate (usually 4 to 10 days before that - April 3rd - April 19th)?

Any opinions?


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## B-Kay 1325

I think that since you have a ship date the "KindleBoards Chicken Watch" should start.  Just MHO


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## Annalog

KindleBoards Chicken Watch it is. Below are my favorites of the watches and clocks I found on Amazon:






There were even more cute timers:




(No, it is not OCD! )


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## Annalog

This is being posted from my netbook while I am sitting in the chicken coop. The chickens will be in range of our wireless network.  The strength is ranging between 4 and 5 bars out of 5. I need to find out what it will take to set up a Chicken Cam.  (EDIT: Without spending too much money!)


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## Annalog

I saw some beautiful chickens at the Pima County Fair today. I did not realize how large some chickens could be! There were some that looked too big for me to pick up. One was a white Plymouth Rock rooster and another was a black Sumatra rooster. The matching hens were nearly as large. The barred Plymouth Rock hens that were there were closer to the size I expected.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Ooooh, yeah, a chicken cam! I LOVE that idea! Oh, I hope it's not too expensive! That would be fun!
Annalog, I just can't do chickens or cows when we live on such a tiny lot in So. Cal. in an urban area. No room for a cow. I did bring 4 chicks home one Easter when the kids were little. DH was not happy. We had to give them away to a trainer at the stable where I keep my horse when they got large. She had them for awhile, we even got some eggs from them.


Spoiler



Unfortunately, the coyotes were just too aggressive and bold and they would jump out right in front of people to grab one. I was very sad.


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## Annalog

Carol, I am sorry to hear about the fate of your chickens. I think the source of my OCD (Obsessive Chicken Defense) is due to experiences with chickens, dogs, and coyotes when I was young.

So far, Chicken Cam looks to cost a couple hundred dollars. It is a bit steeper than I hoped (especially just after DH and I gave each other matching netbooks).



Carol Hanrahan said:


> ... Unfortunately, DH would have a cow if I did, and I have two golden retrievers. ...


I did not seriously expect you and DH to keep chickens and cows. It was intended as a very bad pun.


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## Annalog

We made progress on the coop today. DH finished the corners so that it will be possible to put up pegboard to cover wiring. I finished the insulation on the south wall (except for over the door). DH put up pegboard on south wall. I covered insulation on door with two layers of Contact vinyl (clear vertically, white horizontally). I put vinyl floor in. DH and I moved stuff back in to coop. DH keeps talking about what a nice workshop the coop will be when I am tired of chickens.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog said:


> . DH and I moved stuff back in to coop. DH keeps talking about what a nice workshop the coop will be when I am tired of chickens.


LOL!


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## Annalog

Photos of most recent work:















DH added 2x4s to finish corners and then helped to clear the coop so that I could clean the plywood floor and put vinyl flooring down. Pegboard on south wall is complete. Piece cut from 4'x8' sheet to fit roofline was used over the door opening. 























Vinyl flooring is in place but not attached. A single 8'x12' sheet was cut to fit the corners and doorway so that the flooring could curve 4" up the walls. That should make for easier cleaning. We will put white tempered board (without holes) on the lower half of the walls in 8'x8' area allocated for chickens and white pegboard on the upper half of the walls and in the 4'x8' area allocated for access and storage by south wall and doorway. Additional wiring and insulation needs to go in first.  The markerboard is temporary in that position; I hope to find a way to fit it above the light switch; I may need to cut an inch or two off the width.























NW, NE, and SE corners of floor show how a single 45° cut was made and the vinyl overlapped. The SE corner shows how the flooring will be against the wall after the tempered board is in place. At that time we will cover the edge with something and attach it at each vertical 2x4. The interior wall will also be fastened to the floor joists and anchor the flooring in place under the wall. There may also be a board attached to the floor in the 8'x8' section as an anchor for a temporary dividing wall for the times I want to separate the flock. Hopefully the floor will hold up for years as it will be covered with 3-6 inches of pine shavings where the chickens will be. If not, it will be relatively easy to replace since the vinyl is not glued down.































DH thinks the coop would make a great workshop. (All the pegboard is his idea. ) The power outlets in the ceiling were very handy for running the power saw and charging the batteries for the other power tools.  The tools remain for building the interior wall next weekend. The interior wall will go across at the 2x4 where insulation stops in the first photo of this set. The door in the interior wall will be in front of where chair is placed. The shelf on the long wall must come down before the wall is built. Pegboard organizing set on wall from our local Ace hardware store, source of the 2x4s, drywall screws, foamboard glue, etc. as can be guessed from the trash bag hanging on the wall. 
















View from outside. The large shed near the coop would make a better workshop if it was possible to get inside without tripping over stuff.  I do not know how DH got the power saw out by himself!  (Future project to clear and organize that shed. We may have to build a carport or garage first. ) More stuff stacked against back (north) wall.























Bag of pine shavings in preparation for chicks. I needed to get it inside before the expected rain arrives in the next couple days. Half of the shavings fit in one tub with the other half, still in the bag, in the other tub. The wireless thermometer is in the pool.


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## geoffthomas

Thank you so much for continuing to provide the pics.
It is fascinating to watch the progress.
And to anticipate the arrival of the chicks.
I know that we are not allowed to do this - zoning laws forbid it.
And I suspect that we do not have the patience to take care of a bunch of chickens over the long-haul.
But we have some friends who have about 50 acres and they have enough chickens that they provide fresh eggs often.
But I never have seen how they went about it.

So thank you again.


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## Annalog

You are very welcome GeoffThomas. I should add the notice that this is how a couple aging geeks with book knowledge and about 10 years from retirement approach keeping chickens. We are a bit like the Goods from Good Neighbors/The Good Life but a lot more cautious.

Since we are in a rural area the zoning rules are not a problem. However DH heard from the neighbor across the street that he had a deed restriction concerning chickens. The only restriction we remember from 15 years ago was we could not have horses but across the street could have one horse per acre. We spent part of this weekend searching for the deed paperwork but with no luck. It was not where it was supposed to be. We found other papers, just not the ones we wanted. We don't think we would have bought the property with restrictions for chickens or goats. More searching to do.


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## geoffthomas

Yeah the Good Life was one of our favorite shows when we lived in London.
I am sure that you are more sensible than Tom and Barbara.


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## Annalog

geoffthomas said:


> Yeah the Good Life was one of our favorite shows when we lived in London.
> I am sure that you are more sensible than Tom and Barbara.


 I certainly hope so!

Wait, both DH and I are still employed and hoping to stay so until everything is paid for and set up. Yes, I think that is more sensible.


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## Brenda Carroll

Hey, Miss Annalog!  Haven't checked in here in a while and see that you are making grand progress on your chicken coop.  I have only recently retired and am about to move to a rather rural setting.  I asked the HOA if having chickens was permitted and they said as long as there were no crowing roosters, free-ranging chickens or large permanent structures, they had no problem with it.  So I'm thinking of investing in a small chicken coop for say 4-6 laying hens?  One of those that you can move around the yard to spread the wealth so to speak.  What do you think?


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## Annalog

Brendan Carroll said:


> Hey, Miss Annalog! Haven't checked in here in a while and see that you are making grand progress on your chicken coop. I have only recently retired and am about to move to a rather rural setting. I asked the HOA if having chickens was permitted and they said as long as there were no crowing roosters, free-ranging chickens or large permanent structures, they had no problem with it. So I'm thinking of investing in a small chicken coop for say 4-6 laying hens? One of those that you can move around the yard to spread the wealth so to speak. What do you think?


Hello Brendan, while I have not yet had chickens of my own, I have heard that either a small mobile or stationary coop can work very well for keeping a few chickens.

Some things to consider:

Since chickens are flock birds, you need at least two to have happy chickens.
How big does the structure need to be? Each hen needs 2-3 square feet of shelter space and 3-4 square feet of outside space. This is the reason why many of the small coops for 4-6 hens have two levels with the shelter above at least part of the outside area.
How big is the area in the yard for a movable coop? Is the area easy for moving the coop? How many times can the coop be moved before the coop is back on the original location? Will the vegetation have time to recover? 
Moveable coops are great in the spring, summer, and fall. What will the climate be like in the winter? Is there a sheltered space where the movable coop and hens can stay in the winter?
Most of the chicken droppings fall under the roosts. Is that part of the coop easy to clean?
A nesting space (about a cubic foot) is suggested for every 4 hens in order to prevent the waiting line from getting too long in the morning. .
Is the shelter strong enough to protect the hens from predators? Remember that 'chicken wire' is not very strong. If the coop is in a fenced/walled area, then it might not need to be as strong.
Remember to protect the top so that hawks and owls cannot get to the chickens.
Remember that wild birds can carry diseases that can make your hens sick. 

There are many sites with information on the Internet. Some are:

http://www.backyardchickens.com/
http://urbanchickens.org/
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/about/
http://www.urbanchickens.net/
http://urbanchickenunderground.blogspot.com/
http://www.madcitychickens.com/
http://citychickens.com/
http://www.mybackyardchickenfarm.com/
http://organicchickens.homestead.com/index.html
http://successwithpoultry.blogspot.com/2007/05/laying-hens.html
http://www.ithaca.edu/staff/jhenderson/chooks/chooks.html I am glad I found this again. It was useful in helping me pick which breeds I wanted (non-agressive, hardy in both heat and cold, good dual-purpose egg layers). I knew there was one other breed I considered that I had forgotten: Delaware. 
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/BRKPoultryPage.html
http://www.livingthecountrylife.com/animals/poultry/
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Happy-Homesteader/What-is-Your-Favorite-Backyard-Chicken-Breed.aspx
http://www.mypetchicken.com/default.aspx Has a chicken breed selection tool; answer six questions and it provides a list of breeds that fit the answers.
http://atlantachickenwhisperer.blogspot.com/
http://www.backyardpoultrymag.com/
http://www.gardengirltv.com/


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## Annalog

Some of the chicken tractors from BackYardChickens.com:








http://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=22688-kycklingars-4x10-tractor









http://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=1642-tractor









http://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=37843-the-garden-ark









http://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=3402-Portable_Coop


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## geoffthomas

I saw the friends mentioned above who have chickens tonight.
So I asked them how many they have.
18 hens now laying.
And 33 peeps on the way.

That is more chickens than I thought they had.


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## Brenda Carroll

Wow! You really know your chickens, Miss Annalog!  Well, I like the white coop myself.  About four hens and about two acres of fairly flat ground to move it around.  The winters are mild and the chickens will be safe from extreme cold in the winter.  SE Texas normally has mild winters with only a few freezes and sprinkles of snow... normally.  Not this year, however, but let us hope that the ice age is not upon us, brought about by global warming, of course.  Do you happen to know what it takes to drag one of these babies around the yard... flat yard?

Thank you for all the trouble.  I will go and look at the websites and put them on my favorites.


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## Annalog

geoffthomas said:


> I saw the friends mentioned above who have chickens tonight. So I asked them how many they have. 18 hens now laying. And 33 peeps on the way. That is more chickens than I thought they had.


Thanks for letting me know that. It suggests that I might not be too crazy for having 25 chicks on order in the hope of having a dozen laying hens.


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## Annalog

Brendan Carroll said:


> Wow! You really know your chickens, Miss Annalog! Well, I like the white coop myself. About four hens and about two acres of fairly flat ground to move it around. The winters are mild and the chickens will be safe from extreme cold in the winter. SE Texas normally has mild winters with only a few freezes and sprinkles of snow... normally. Not this year, however, but let us hope that the ice age is not upon us, brought about by global warming, of course. Do you happen to know what it takes to drag one of these babies around the yard... flat yard? Thank you for all the trouble. I will go and look at the websites and put them on my favorites.


I am away from highspeed Internet and posting from my K2. I don't remember which one was white. However some are easy to move while others are difficult. Most have wheels on at least one end. I saw one which was mounted on skids and pulled by a riding mower. The chicken tractors are usually moved at the speed that the chickens inside can walk.
EDIT: The white one is nice. That one has removeable wheels. It is also set up nicely for containing the hens inside the structure for moving. (I know chickens can be trained to go into a shelter when called for treats. )


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## Annalog

The hatchery I ordered the chicks from should have put the eggs that will hatch into my chicks in the incubators at the beginning of this week. (Does that sentence have too many prepositional clauses?) The chicks should arrive in three weeks.

The interior wall did not get built last weekend as allergy medication and power tools do not mix safely. However my plans for portable roosts/brooder have been greatly simplified and will bear a striking resemblance to saw horses. (Is DH secretly working on turning the coop into a workshop? ) Saw horse brackets have been purchased as well as most of the lumber and insulation. (I am glad my Prius can easily transport 8' 2x4s as well as 2 foot wide insulation sheets that are 8 feet long.   The lumber yard people are surprised when they see me load the materials into my car.  However we still need to use a pickup truck to get the 4'x8' sheets of whiteboard and pegboard home.)

I found some vents intended for use under eaves that we will use to increase the air flow in the coop after the chicks are fully feathered. These have resolved one of the problems that DH and I have been discussing.

This morning DH mentioned that he is thinking of putting a rabbit fence in to enclose the area between the sheds and the house, as well as around the garden. This will make work on the chicken moat and garden easier as well as providing a place where we can let the chickens roam while under supervision.  (And he still says that he does not like chickens; he calls them cannibalistic dinosaurs. He is such a sweetheart! )


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## Annalog

Chicks are due to arrive in just over two weeks. According to Stages in chick embryo development:


> By the seventh day, digits appear on the wings and feet, the heart is completely enclosed in the thoracic cavity, and the embryo looks more like a bird.


The interior wall did not get built this weekend either. However, the lumber is cut for the two saw horses that is the basis of the brooder and the future roosts. I attached to legs to the brackets. The step left is to attach the horizontal piece of wood. However, in their current state the saw horses do not take up much space. I wll finish them next weekend, hopefully after the interior wall is built. I attached wood trim around the covered insulation on the door to keep the Contact liners in place.


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## Annalog

It was still light when I arrived home from work today. Since it wasn't windy, I cut insulation for the section with the wiring for the door. (EDIT: I cut more insulation Wednesday after work. ) My goal is to have as much ready for this weekend as possible. 

I bought a 25 pound bag of organic chick starter/grower. I put it into airtight containers and then put those into the freezer so that the chicken feed would stay fresh; it should also kill any insect eggs present.


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## Angela

Annalog, I grew up out in the country and we almost always had chickens. First for the eggs, secondly for the meat. I absolutely hated the days I would look into the backyard and see Daddy setting up the big iron kettle on the fire to boil water. This meant it was time to move some of the chickens from the coop to the freezer!! I would go hide, but I was always found. It didn't bother me to see Daddy kill the chickens, my problem was that my job was to pluck feathers. I hated that so much that even to this day I can barely touch a raw chicken. I was one happy young homemaker the first time the grocery store began carrying frozen chicken pieces that I didn't have to cut up or touch!! 

I love fresh farm egss, but don't know that I could raise chickens on my own, but I admire you and the work you are doing!


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## Annalog

Thanks Angela! We had bantam chickens when I was growing up. The eggs were wonderful. It was years after I left home before store eggs started looking or tasting normal to me. The only chicken that ended up on our table was one bantam rooster who kept attacking us until my mom put a final stop to his activities. She took care of him while we were at school. She had grown up on a farm where she and her mom were responsible for hundreds of chickens. They provided eggs and meat for local stores. I am only going to keep a dozen or so.

I will also be keeping the chickens first for the eggs and secondly for the meat. It will be my job to kill, pluck, clean, and freeze any chickens that we or my mom eat.


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## Annalog

Bump: Came home to find that DH had worked on the chicken coop walls. Thump: In the process, he tore the vinyl flooring in a few places along the walls. I will have to see what I am going to do to fix it.


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## Annalog

I plan to upload pictures tomorrow. 

Yesterday DH bought regular (brown) hardboard in Benson for the lower four feet of the walls in the area where the chickens will be. He cut the board and set it in place. It was when he set the last piece down that he tore the vinyl flooring. I decided this morning that using a vinyl repair kit on the vinyl in the chicken coop will be good practice for repairing the small tear in the vinyl flooring in the kitchen. For the last several years the tear has had a brick sitting on it while waiting to be repaired.

This morning I cut all of the insulation for the bottom four feet of each wall; I glued the insulation on the east and west walls. After lunch, we bought a gallon of semigloss exterior latex paint. DH set all three sheets of hardboard up on the saw horses that will eventually become the roosts. I painted each of the sheets of hardboard with two coats of paint. While each sheet dried I glued the insulation in place. I would phone DH to come help me move the painted (top) sheet to the coop. He would go back inside and I would start on the next sheet, etc. After the three sheets were painted and in the coop, I took the saw horses apart and put two coats of paint on each of the pieces of wood. The sun set before I finished so DH set up some lights so I could see to finish. I used almost 3/4 of the gallon of paint. 

When we were out shopping after lunch we also bought an inexpensive box fan at Wal-Mart. While we were there DH saw a small window-style air conditioner for $98. He suggested we buy that instead of the box fan. We didn't. Later he said that the air conditioner would come in handy when I got tired of chickens and he would then have a great workshop.


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## Angela

> When we were out shopping after lunch we also bought an inexpensive box fan at Wal-Mart. While we were there DH saw a small window-style air conditioner for $98. He suggested we buy that instead of the box fan. We didn't. Later he said that the air conditioner would come in handy when I got tired of chickens and he would then have a great workshop.


LOL


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

I don't know how I've been missing this thread.  Got caught up tonight though! 
Great progress, Annalog!  I can almost hear those chicks peeping!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I don't know how I've been missing this thread. Got caught up tonight though!
> Great progress, Annalog! I can almost hear those chicks peeping!


The chicks should arrive in a week and a half. The chick embryos should have their feathers and their egg tooth by now.  They should hatch in just over a week.


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## B-Kay 1325

Wow it's getting close!!  Will you receive a shipping notice when they actually ship?  You have made great progress.


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## Annalog

B-Kay, I doubt I will get a shipping notice as the chicks must be shipped the day they hatch. The hatchery sets eggs in the incubator based on the promised orders. I expect a phone call from the post office when they arrive instead.


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## B-Kay 1325

Oh that's great.  I used to pick up our PO box mail for the Title company I worked for and it was always great fun when the chicks arrived, they sure make a lot of noise!  I can hardly wait for your pictures both of the coup and the babies when they get there.


----------



## Annalog

Photos of most recent work:






















DH cut hardboard (brown) for the lower half of walls for chicken area. (Local suppliers carry unpainted for same price as painted hardboard in Tucson. However driving a pickup truck to Tucson would double the price after adding cost of gas. We bought one gallon of latex exterior semigloss High Hiding White paint for less than the price of the gas. We stacked all three cut sheets outside on the sawhorses that will become the roosts. I painted smooth side of each hardboard sheet with two coats (probably really one and a half coats as I did not wait for first coat to dry completely). I cut and glued insulation while waiting for each hardboard sheet to dry. The two rows of insulation covering the lower 4 feet of the walls is glued on the west and east walls but not the north wall. I am leaving that unglued so that it will be easier when we work on putting in the chicken doors. The remaining insulation will be glued after we finish that project (probably in a couple months).
















DH accidentally tore vinyl flooring when test fitting hardboard on north wall. It tore along the wall and in the northeast corner. Next weekend I will practice my vinyl floor repairing skills. 
















The three sheets of painted hardboard in place. Each is currently held by only one drywall screw. More will be added. 























Saturday I took the sawhorses apart, painted the wood, and reassembled. Today I cut the wood for the roost. I painted the lumber for the roost, interior wall and door. DH measured and then cut the painted wood for the wall and door. I painted the cut ends. Since the paint is not yet completely dry, I stacked it on the sawhorse and on cardboard boxes when we put everything away for the night. The wood on the boxes is for the wall, most of the wood on the sawhorses is for the door and roosts but the one piece in back is for the wall. The wood in the pool is what was leftover. These will be used to support food and water dishes; some might be used for other purposes.
















With the last bit of paint, I painted the frame around the window and what I could around the door before I ran out of paint. I used the entire gallon in two days. (The paint I bought at Ace was already the correct color and did not need to be mixed. However one of the helpful people at our local Ace Hardware put the can in the machine so that the paint was completely mixed. I did not need to stir the paint with the paint stick at all. ) I love buying just enough paint and not having any left over.  The two round metal items are the chicken watering containers that my mom used with our chickens when I was young. After cleaning them, I will use them with my chickens after they grow up a bit; otherwise they might fall in and either drown or get chilled. 
















The first picture shows the east wall and the southeast corner. The end of the hardboard on the east wall marks edge of the interior wall. This is the side where the interior door will be. The second picture shows the west wall and the southwest corner. The end of hardboard on the west wall marks other edge of the interior wall. This is the side where the nesting box will be.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Wow, Annalog.  That's alot of progress!


----------



## Annalog

I am beginning to see the "light at the end of the tunnel!" While I had wanted the interior wall in place weeks ago, at least all of the painting has been completed more than a week before the chicks are due to arrive. While I know the fumes from latex-based paints are not supposed to be harmful, I also know that birds are more sensitive to what is in the air. The glue we use to attach the Styrofoam is also latex-based (so it doesn't "eat" the Styrofoam insulation. ) While I doubt I will have that finished, at least all of the lower insulation is done. I am also trying to convince DH that all of the vents should be put in this weekend before the chicks arrive. That way there will be plenty of airflow. 

The boxes of cardboard boxes from earlier photos are now going to be recycled. I had planned to use some as a draft barrier around the chicks. However DH was tired of me moving the boxes in and out of the coop. He found some of the flat panel monitor boxes that had not been broken down for storage and suggested I use those instead. (I brought them home from work a while ago because they were NOT being recycled. The boxes can be seen behind the saw horses in one of the photos above.)

DH says that with the wood already cut and painted that it will be less than an hour to build and put up the interior wall frame and only a little longer to build and put up the door. (I say that the time estimate needs to be doubled or tripled. ) I can attach the hardware cloth to the wall and door after the chicks arrive.

As soon as the wall frame is in place then I can start the temperature tests on the brooder. 

EDIT: Corrected typo.


----------



## Angela

Looking good!!


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## LCEvans

You've been working so hard! Can't wait to see pictures of those chicks.


----------



## Annalog

Thanks! I am counting down the days until the chicks arrive. They will either arrive one week from today or the next day. 

Last night I ordered a wireless Internet Webcam from Amazon. The price had been reduced by $30 and DD had sent me a $30 Amazon giftcard for Mother's Day with the suggestion I spend it on books or something for the chickens. Here is hoping that the webcam works as well as was described in some of the reviews.


----------



## geoffthomas

Just writing to add my encouragement.
And to thank you for sharing this experience with us.
It is stimulating. Thought-provoking. 
I admit that right now I am too busy with getting the vegetable and flower gardens in shape to consider any other project.
And we are specifically not zoned for animals kept outside the house.

Just sayin.....


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## Annalog

geoffthomas said:


> Just writing to add my encouragement.
> And to thank you for sharing this experience with us.
> It is stimulating. Thought-provoking.
> I admit that right now I am too busy with getting the vegetable and flower gardens in shape to consider any other project.
> And we are specifically not zoned for animals kept outside the house.
> 
> Just sayin.....


Thanks! I am afraid I have let my work in the vegetable garden slide while working on the coop. I am hoping to have some time left for the garden this weekend. I have a place to compost the chicken droppings and will certainly need to have more prepared garden space to use it once it is composted. 

EDIT: I also have to add that the encouragement I received here has probably prevented me from postponing the chicks another year when the inevitable delays occurred.


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## Annalog

The chicks should be hatching tonight or tomorrow morning since they are  to be shipped tomorrow. They should arrive Tuesday or Wednesday at my local post office.

The interior wall and door frame were assembled today. The brood area with heat lamps is setup and waiting for chicks. I started the temperature tests while working in the brood area putting down wood chips, supports for food and water dishes, and paper towels to cover the wood chips for the first few days while the chicks are learning where to find food and what it looks like. (Don't want them eating wood chips!) The wood chips should be drying during the temperature test. 

With just one heat lamp on, the  temperature was originally too hot by more than 10 degrees F directly under the lamp. I raised that lamp about 4 inches and the temperature is closer to 95 F. I have a second heat lamp on a timer so that it should turn on a couple hours after sunset and turn off a couple hours after sunrise. I will find out tonight what adjustments I should make before the chicks arrive.

Tomorrow I will notify my local post office that I am expecting chicks and then I will drive to work in Tucson. While there, I should receive both the Web cam I ordered and my replacement Kindle. (Do not fall asleep while reading your Kindle and then drop it over the side of the bed, especially if there is a wastebasket, shoes, or something else lumpy for it to fall on. ) I will be working from home Tuesday and Wednesday so that I can pick up the chicks soon after the Post Office calls.


----------



## Annalog

Photos of most recent work:






















Yesterday the white hardboard walls were attached, the old shelf was removed, and I attempted to patch the tears in the vinyl flooring. The repairs were partly successful. This morning, after the patches had cured, we attached the water resistant hardboard strips over the edge of the vinyl flooring. The bottom of these strips was rested on a 2x4 on edge to have a consistent height from the floor. This height is also the minimum depth I want for the floor litter (pine shavings). I cleared most of the coop while DH went to Ace for more drywall screws of the correct length. He then attached one side of the short horizontal bar and then laid out the interior wall frame on the floor for assembly.

Since the interior wall frame is slightly narrower than the inside of the coop and only as tall as the shortest wall, we did not have to do anything special for the ceiling lights. Currently the wall frame is attached to the side walls with only one screw in the middle of each side. More screws will be added after the side walls are finished. The short horizontal bar marks top of nest boxes to be added later.
















Box of full size door hinges DH has been waiting to use for years! They were bought by a neighbor at an auction (city or school district). DH attached the hinges to door frame; only two of the four holes in each plate fit on the door frame. Therefore DH cut off part of the hinge plate on one side of each hinge. The door will collapse long before these hinges do! The pattern on the vinyl floor was helpful for keeping everything fairly square without using a framing square! 























With the wall frame complete, I set up the brooder area. The saw horses will be future roosts but for now one will support the heat lamps. The boxes originally contained flat panel monitors. I took several boxes home when everyone in the office got a new monitor. (EDIT: The sturdy boxes with handles seemed wasted going to recycling.) Does using 12 computer monitor boxes for the draft barrier and temporary wall identify this as a geek's brooder?

After setting up the heat lamps and starting the heat test, I added the pine shavings, feeder supports (2x4 scraps left from wall frame construction), and paper towels. The three inches of pine wood shavings are covered with paper towels for the first couple days while chicks learn what food looks like and where it can be found. I don't want baby chicks eating the wood shavings instead! (This would pack in their crops and then they would starve.)
















I am using two heat lamps. One will be on all of the time, at least at first. The other will be on only at night. The goal is a temperature of 95 F for the first week and then reduced by 5 degrees F each week until the chicks are old enough to maintain their body temperature. I am using chain as a support so that it is easy to raise or lower the heat lamps for temperature control. Also, the chicks can control their temperature by their distance from the heat lamps. The second photo shows the timer I am using for one heat lamp.
















The rest of the wood shavings have been put into the brooder. The small red rake was purchased specifically for the coop for use as a coop pooper scooper (OK, poop rake ). It has not been used outside so should not have wild bird disease contamination. The thin cardboard (inside of wrapping paper rolls) is taped across all box boundaries and goes to the floor under the litter. This should keep the small chicks in the brooder area. (EDIT: The fact that I had several of these stiff paper wapping paper liners is a sign that I am a paper folder who keeps these for use when buying large sheets of special paper. ) The boxes will be removed when the birds are able to fly over the boxes. By that time there should be wire on the interior wall frame and door. There is no water or food is in the containers yet. However the containers are over the hidden wood supports. 

Normally brooders do not have obstructions, such as the saw horse legs near the edges of the brooder. There could be a problem with chicks piling up in the various corners. However, if the temperatures are anywhere close to correct and the chicks are of normal chick intelligence (they should as none are turkey poults ), I do not expect a problem as I tried to make sure that each of the tight areas either have two exits/entrances or has a wide enough passage for at least two chicks.


----------



## Annalog

The brooder temperature was fairly stable during the night but a little cool. I had left the window open as a worst case test. I suspect the temperature will be fine with the window closed. If not, I can certainly lower the heat lamp. I am ready for the chicks to arrive and their new home is ready for them.


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## B-Kay 1325

This is getting exciting!  Are we now on "Official Chick Watch"?  I don't think "I" have ever said that before!! lol


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## Annalog

B-Kay 1325 said:


> This is getting exciting! Are we now on "Official Chick Watch"? I don't think "I" have ever said that before!! lol


 It certainly depends on the type of chicks, doesn't it?

Yes, we are definitely on "Official Chick Watch"! I was late in to work today because I stopped at my local post office this morning. (They open at 8:30.) The instructions from the hatchery suggested notifying my local post office about the pending arrival of chicks. The person at the window called my letter carrier up to the counter to speak with me. (Love small town post offices!) He took my name, address, and both phone numbers (home and cell). He said that they know by 7 AM if chicks have arrived and asked when it would be OK to phone. I said anytime. He said I could come any time after I receive the phone call and then explained how to get to the loading dock and where I would find the buzzer. I will be ready to leave the house tomorrow morning ( and the next day if necessary) as soon as I get the phone call. 

I also received an e-mail late on Saturday saying my Web cam will be waiting at the appropriate Tucson post office for where I work. So today I should receive my replacement Kindle and new Web cam. So today is *Replacement Kindle Watch* and *Web Cam Watch*. After I get the Web Cam set up, hopefully before the chicks arrive, then we can use it for *Chick Watch*!  If I have the Chick Cam working before the chicks arrive then I will post when I am leaving to pick up the chicks.


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## Annalog

I did get a shipping notification (I actually received two sent a minute apart. I hope this does not mean I am getting two boxes with 25 chicks each! ):
Just a Reminder!

Ship Date:5/17/2010
  
Ship To:ANNA ...

Your poultry order has been shipped today. You should expect delivery within 72 hours. If you have any problems, please report them within 4 days of arrival. We appreciate your business and are looking forward to providing you with "Ideal Poultry". 
Ideal Poultry Breeding Farms Inc.
PO Box 591
Cameron, TX 76520
254-697-6677


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## B-Kay 1325

This is great news!  I will be chaperoning a middle school music department trip to Disneyland for the next few days with my DD#1 & GD, but I will have my netbook with me and will be checking on the delivery progress.


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## Annalog

Both the replacement K2 and the Web Cam arrived at work today. Can you believe that my new-to-me refurb K2 is taking second place to the Web Cam?


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## Annalog

No Webcam, messed up home network, posting from K2. Going offsite to attempt fix after turning on heat lamps and filling waterers.


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## Annalog

I am currently sitting outside our local public library using their wireless. I think I now know how to fix our router. I have to fix that in order to be able to work from home. First, however, I am off to Walmart to buy a thermometer for the brooder. I should not leave the wireless one in there with the chicks.  I hope the call to pickup the chicks is in 45 minutes and not tomorrow.


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## Annalog

Posting from home after fixing router settings. However Webcam is still not connected to Internet. Picked up to outside thermometers and a box of parakeet grit (chick grit) at Walmart. I turned on the heat lamps and put two filled chick waterers in the brooder before leaving earlier this morning. Brooder is up to 80 F from 64 F. If it is not close to 95 F when I get the phone call from the post office (assuming they call today instead of tomorrow), then I will lower one of the lamps a bit before I leave to pick up the chicks.

I am glad I woke up before my alarm went off this morning as I have been running around like a


Spoiler



silly person (not a reference to chickens missing important bits )


 this morning.


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## Annalog

Chicks must be coming tomorrow. I will think of today as a practice run. Back to focusing on work.


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## Betsy the Quilter

We can't wait!!!

Betsy


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## Annalog

Betsy the Quilter said:


> We can't wait!!!
> 
> Betsy


I am having a difficult time waiting as well. I went to lunch very early so that I could vote, stop at the post office to verify that the chicks were not there, buy some chicken scratch and two more bales of pine shavings, and then get some lunch. It seems similar to when I was buying accessories before my first Kindle arrived. (At least I should not have to find a home for my purchases due to receiving a different 'version' of chicks!)  I still have 1/3 bale left from the first bag of shavings and I will need to freeze nearly all of the 50 pound bag of scratch.  I bought the scratch so that I can give the chicks the smaller bits their first day or two; according to some sources it is supposed to keep them from "pasting up" as it is more like what they would eat first when raised by a hen. However after the first couple days, they aren't supposed to eat scratch until they are older. (Scratch is cracked grains which are high in fat and low in protein.) Instead they will be eating "chick starter" which is higher in protein, lower in fat, and has added vitamins and minerals.


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## Annalog

Scratch in ~2 pound bags and in freezer. Used Magic Bullet to turn a cup of scratch into chick scratch. (First time I used it since I bought it on a clearance sale.) Timer set to turn on heat lamp by 5 AM. Web cam still not recognized in wireless mode. I will have to take normal pictures.  I am stopping before I am too tired. Early morning tomorrow.


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## Annalog

The chicks have arrived! 
I was up early to turn the second brood light on; the first was on a timer and came on a few hours earlier. I went back inside to get my camera and the chick scratch and decided to carry the house phone out with me, even though it was about 40 minutes to 7 (time I was expecting the call). I was still outside at just after 6:30 when the phone rang. The chicks were waiting for me at the post office. I did not go back inside to post as I had my purse with keys and drivers license with me. I left to go get the chicks instead.

At the post office I found my box of chicks on a table in the inside part of the outside loading dock. I pushed the buzzer to see if I needed to sign anything. I looked though the holes in the sides and the chicks seemed OK. I put the box of chirping chicks in the passenger seat and drove home. Chicks can be very noisy and some have distinctive cheeps.

I opened the box in the coop and gave each chick a drink of water and put it in the brooder where there was food sprinkled on the paper towels and more water in a container.

The chicks are drinking, eating, pooping, sleeping, and running around. They are peeping much more quietly now. I will post pictures soon.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Woohoo! Can't wait to see pics

Betsy


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## Annalog

First pictures (more to follow):








Shipping box filled with chicks.









Chicks! They are peeping very loudly.









Each chick was given a drink of water and put in the brooder.

















Chicks in the brooder less than 15 minutes after arriving home.

Edit for change in FB photo URLs.


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## Angela

Woo Hoo!! Congrats and they are sooooo cute!


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## Annalog

It is two and a half hours after the chicks arrived home (three hours since the post office called) and the chicks are fairly quiet with quiet peeps and cheeps. Occassionally there is a loud cheep. They are eating, drinking, sleeping, walking around, jumping over the long feeder, and investigating everything. I have not yet been able to get a good picture of a sleeping chick. Some sprawl out as if they are dead while others sit with their beak touching the paper towels. Some chicks will walk over the sleeping chicks.

I will now eat breakfast and get to work. 

Rest of the photos from this morning:








View from the back of the coop. Still very soon after chicks arrived.









View from the east side of the coop. Still very soon after chicks arrived.































































The Barred Rock chicks are dark grey with white spots, the New Hampshire Red chicks are yellow, and the Ameraucana chicks are brown with spots or stripes.

Edit for change in FB photo URLs.


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## drenee

So cute.  Thank you.
deb


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## Margaret

Very cute!  Thank you for posting them!


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## Annalog

On behalf of the chicks, thanks for the compliments.  

We had a power outage in the coop a couple hours ago. I was in the coop at the time since I have setup a laptop workstation and had just logged in to my work network and e-mail. I walked to the house and saw that the house had electricity. I checked the circuit breaker box; all were OK but I turned off and on all the ones I thought might cover the coop circuit. I walked back to the coop -- still no power. Fortunately the brooder had gotten a little warm and the chicks were spread over the cooler part of the brooder and were just starting back to the warmer section. 

I sent e-mail to notify people at work that I would be taking the whole day off instead of just the morning. I phoned DH and let him know what happened. He had me flip the correct breaker again; that did not work. I asked where he kept the LONG outdoor extension cord and then hung up the phone; I set that up and plugged in the heat lamp about the time all the chicks were gathered in the warmest section of the brooder. I called DH back again and he suggested it might be the GFI circuit in the bathroom; I reset that, checked the coop, and let DH know that was the problem and electricity is once again flowing to the coop.

It is nearly 1:00 PM and I have not yet eaten breakfast. Time to get some lunch.


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## Maxx

Awwwww, so cute.  I'm glad you got the electricity back on quickly.  What a worry!


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## Annalog

The last time I checked on the chicks they were all asleep. Time for me to go to sleep as well.


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## Betsy the Quilter

So cute!  Glad that you got the power back quickly.  Thanks for sharing the pics!

Betsy


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## Annalog

Thanks! Last night when I asked DH again if I should worry about the power going off, he said it should be OK. Then he said that the GFI outlet may be wearing out (~15 years old) and that if it happens again then we should buy a new GFI outlet. I think I will buy one today when I am in Tucson. 

I have two heat lamps in the brooder. The night lamp is on a timer so both are on at night but only one is on in the day time. Both were 250 W bulbs. Yesterday afternoon, because the chicks were too warm during the warmest part of the day, I bought a lower wattage bulb (125 W) to replace the one in the day lamp. That let me lower the lamp closer to the chicks again.   

I woke up a bit after 2 AM this morning and checked the wireless thermometer that I put on top of the cardboard boxes near the heat lamps where it seemed to be about 15 F lower than under the heat lamps. It had read 85 F when I went to sleep but was now 75 F. I dressed in workout clothes and went out to check if the heat lamps needed adjusting. The chicks were sleeping gathered, but not huddled, under the heat lamps. I adjusted the night lamp lower and waited to see how the chicks reacted. While I was waiting I replaced some of the paper towels covering the litter. I then adjusted the day lamp lower as well knowing that it would be getting colder until after sunrise. When I went back to bed, the chicks were sleeping in little groups spread about halfway out from the lights.  

The chicks remind me of a group of toddlers. When one sees something it wants, it heads straight for it and just walks over others that are sleeping in its path.  

This morning the wireless thermometer read 65 F but the chicks were spread out in the warmer third of the brooder. It looks as if I have the lights adjusted OK for now. The timer will turn off the night lamp about an hour after I leave for work. I am sure the chicks will be OK during the day.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Yay Annalog!  So cute!  
I've been in Illinois visiting my Dad.  right now I'm in the Student Union at U of I campus.  One of the rare moments I have internet.  So, obviously checking up on KB!
I can't believe you finally got the chicks!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Yay Annalog! So cute!
> I've been in Illinois visiting my Dad. right now I'm in the Student Union at U of I campus. One of the rare moments I have internet. So, obviously checking up on KB!
> I can't believe you finally got the chicks!


Yes, they are finally here!    

Now I just have to make sure they stay healthy. I understand the first few weeks can be the most difficult.


----------



## Annalog

Second day with chicks (chicks 4 days old): 
Three of the four Ameraucana have visible muffs. (See 5th picture of second group which as an Ameraucana chick next to the red waterer.

Tonight a moth flew into the brooder. The chicks chased the moth until one caught and ate it. Actually several chicks caught it but were not successful in keeping it long enough to eat.

I came home today to find that one of the waterers had spilled and it was surrounded by wet litter. This area was just past where I could easily reach. I also noticed that some of the chicks had 
'pasted up" (a condition caused by stress and being dehydrated where gooey poo sticks to the vent and dries, preventing the chick from being able to poo.) If not treated by removing stuck poo, the chick will die. In addition, I had forgotten to open the window so the coop was a bit too warm. Therefore it was a good time to put the chicks in a box, remove all the dirty paper towels, remove the wet litter, and put in clean paper towels before returning the chicks to the brooder, one-by-one, after checking the chick for "pasting up" and removing any dried poo. I had to get into the brooder in order to do most of this. I put clean litter and paper towels on the bottom of a large plastic tote with a bottom area about twice as large as the shipping container. The chicks have definitely grown as I do not think they would have fit in the original box; they certainly would not have stayed in it! While the chicks hated being caught, most fell asleep soon after finding there was no water or food in the tote.  I had to pick poo from 5 chicks today (and picked poo from two yesterday).

When I put the chicks back in the brooder, I gave them only water at first then I added the container of chick scratch and grit and then several hours later added the chick starter. I read on one site that I should have done this at the beginning.

I removed one sawhorse from the brooder so that it would be easier for me to move around.


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## B-Kay 1325

Annalog, it was great seeing the pictures.  I was unable to access the internet during my trip except for the night we arrived, so this is the first time I've been able to check this thread.  The chicks all look healthy and it sounds like you are a new mom and having all the same new baby issues.  Keep posting new pictures!


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## Annalog

I plan to post more photos tomorrow afternoon or evening. It has been difficult to find time between learning how to take are of the chicks and work. 

With the days now getting into the low 90s F, cooling the coop during the day is becoming as important as heating the coop at night. I set up a fan but it was not enough. DH installed one of the vents I had bought.  He will put in the others that will be easy to reach; the ones that will eventually be in the brooder area will have to wait. The chicks do NOT like the sound of an electric saw!

The chicks seem to like the sound of me singing!  That shows that they are tone deaf or very polite.  I know when I am singing off key; I just cannot make my voice hit the notes I hear in my head.  

The chicks have temporary names. There will be no permanent names until we know that we will be keeping a specific chicken permanently. The Ameraucanas are supposed to be pullets but the stated accuracy is only 90% so one might be a male. The darkest red/brown Ameraucana is currently named Ginger; I hope she stays the color she is. The other that is slightly lighter is currently named Cinnamon. The two with chipmunk stripes are Chip and Dale. All of the New Hampshires will be called Nuggets until I learn which are pullets and if one of the roosters has a temperament for keeping. The Barred Rocks will be called Tenders; one of these roosters should definitely have a good temperament.


----------



## Annalog

Too tired to post photos. DH and I got up early, went to Ace Hardware, and then put more vents in the coop. My mom and sister came from Tucson to see the chicks. I went back to Ace Hardware after they left to see about evaporative cooling for the coop. I bought a curtain rod for the window and 4 yards of cheesecloth. After putting up the curtain rod, I folded the cheesecloth, got it wet, and then hung it over the curtain rod. I turned on the box fan and the coop cooled down. If this works when it gets warmer, it will be a lot less expensive than either a cooler or an air conditioner.


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## LCEvans

So cute! I really love chickens and can't wait until I'm able to have some of my own. Wow, you are so busy taking care of them, even getting up at night. You're a good mom.


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## 908tracy

Oh Anna, I am so excited for you!!! Those chicks are just darling! You really are doing this all the way, even getting up during the night. You go girl!!! 

Give those peeps a gentle squeeze for me from Jersey okay? =)


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## Annalog

Thanks LCEvans and Tracy! I will definitely pass on the greetings and compliments to the chicks. Some of the chicks are starting to show some curiosity and interest, instead of panic, when I appear and talk to them. DH and I just finished putting in the fourth and last vent on the west (taller) side of the coop. I had to stand on a step stool inside the brooder to do some of the work. This was NOT popular with the chicks.

This morning, after I had fed the chicks and was cleaning and filling the waterers, Dale, one of the Ameraucana pullets, somehow got her foot caught in the long feeder.  She started squawking and trying to get away from the feeder. I had to pull the feeder toward me before I could get a hold of Dale. Once I could hold her a little closer to the feeder it was possible to get her foot loose. I held her until she calmed down and I could check to see that her foot, toes, and leg seemed to be OK. When I set her down, she ran to the farthest corner where the rest of the chicks had gathered and were huddled. All the chicks became very quiet and then appeared to be sleeping. They stayed that way for about 15 minutes before some started wandering around again. Eventually Dale got up again and seems to be walking and acting normally. Panic over! I checked that feeder to see if I had closed it improperly. I had not. It seems that there is no way to close that feeder without some place that an adventurous chick could get a foot stuck. (Some of the chicks have been trying to walk along the top of this feeder.) The base of this feeder is now in the window sill holding water for the cheesecloth curtains. I won't use it as a feeder until the chicks are too large to get their toes stuck in it.


----------



## drenee

Wow, I'm glad you were there when it happened.
deb


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## Annalog

drenee said:


> Wow, I'm glad you were there when it happened.
> deb


So am I!


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## Annalog

Another long day with no time to post photos. It is difficult to believe how fast the chicks are growing. Some of the chicks can already jump/fly half the height of the brooder. Two keep trying to get on top of the feeders. Therefore I spent today covering the internal wall and door with hardware cloth. One more day of work is needed on that before I will stop worrying about a chick getting out of the brooder when I am not there. In the meantime, before I leave the coop I double stack the boxes that make up the brooder wall.

All of the Ameraucana pullets have tiny tail feathers. Four of the New Hampshire chicks have tail feathers and only one Barred Plymouth Rock chick has noticeable tail feathers. Two of the Barred Plymouth Rock chicks periodically have standoff fights; They jump up and bump chests a few times until one of them gets turned around. Both of them are the lighter grey with irregular white patches on their heads. These are two of the signs of  Barred Plymouth Rock cockerels.


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## Jen

Those are the cutest things I've ever seen!  I love them!!


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## Annalog

Thanks Jen! I have been taking photos since but have not had time to post them. They are changing so fast! At only a week and two days old, at least four fly well enough to perch on top of the water and feeder jars. More chicks are getting wing and tail feathers. Those with wing feathers are getting feathers along the top edges of their wings as well as at the ends.

Not only do I have two rows of boxes so that the wall of the brooder is too tall for them to fly out, but yesterday I finished the wire on the internal wall and extended the brooder area to the wall. This has nearly doubled the area that the chicks have access to as it it is now 4'x8' instead of 4'x4.5'. Last night I rearranged most of the stuff in the coop to improve access and usability. 

I bought new quart mason jars (instead of using old mayo and spaghetti sauce jars). The new jars are much easier to handle and fit the waterers better. I filled 4 quart jars with the mixed chick starter (1/2 non-medicated organic 22% protein chick starter/grower crumbles and 1/2 non-medicated Purina Sunfresh 18% protein chick starter/grower crumbles).

Tonight I will be staying at my mom's house. (I usually stay there one night a week to visit.) That means that DH will be taking care of the chicks tonight and tomorrow morning. This will be practice for when he needs to take care of the chicks for a week in early June.

I have not had time to work on the Webcam.  But the chicks are healthy, seem to be happy, and are doing well.


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## B-Kay 1325

Great news, can hardly wait for the updated pictures.  Post them when you can.  
This is a fun and interesting thread.


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## Annalog

My attempts at keeping the chicks cool enough during the day were not successful so yesterday I purchased a window air conditioner at Wal-Mart for just under $100. DH installed it today but has to redo it tomorrow as it is currently not possible to pull out the filter to clean it. This is because it is not installed in a window but in a hole in the coop wall. This air conditioner does not have a thermostat so I hooked it up to the time I had been using for the fan. Since air conditioners work better with less outside airflow, I blocked the opening to the turbine fan.

I made a mistake in trying to temporarily block the wall vents. A gust of wind blew the 6"x14" piece of siding (similar in thickness to plywood but a bit lighter) into the coop. It fell into the brooder and DH saw it land on a yellow (New Hampshire) chick.    I jumped into the brooder, pulled out the siding blocking the second vent, and then looked for the injured chick. Most of the chicks were huddled in the far corner.  I crawled under the heat lamps (off) and watched the chicks until I spotted the injured one. I scooped it up and held it carefully. The wings seemed limp but the wings and legs looked OK. The only visible injury was spots of fluff missing in a line over the backbone which were probably rubbed off when the chick got out from under the piece of siding. When I set it down, it seemed unable to put weight on one leg. I picked it up again and tried to calm it. Meanwhile, I was giving DH instructions so that I could block off part of the brooder as a quiet area for the injured chick. I put one waterer and one feeder in this section along with the chick and a paper towel with mash (a chick favorite).

When I set the chick down, it headed for a corner and lay down. I watched the chick for a while and then went inside to check the Internet for advice. Apparently I had done most of the right things. It was also suggested that another chick be with the injured chick to keep it company, preferably a smaller female chick. 

I went out to do this and found that the injured chick had eaten a little and was cheeping to the other chicks. I put a smaller female chick in with the injured chick but that just made the new chick cheep very loudly to the others. It was so distressed that I put it back with the others. Since the injured chick was able to walk a bit by now, I removed the divider and let it be with the rest of the flock. This made the injured chick much happier. Since then it has been sleeping most of the time. It does get up to eat and drink. I have been checking on it periodically. 

In the morning I should know if the chick is going to survive.


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## Annalog

Chick seems OK this morning and probably won't even have a limp.


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## geoffthomas

Anna,
That is good news.
I was "pulling" for the little chick.
We have become virtual foster family for your flock.

More pics (when time permits) please.


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## Annalog

Chick update: I suspect that by tomorrow I will not be able to tell which chick was hit by falling siding as their back feathers are now starting to come in. (I was thinking that I might name that one "Chicken Little" as "the sky was falling" but it is difficult to tell the New Hampshire chicks apart.)

Since it doesn't have a thermostat, I have the air conditioner on a timer so that it is on for 30 minutes and then off for 30 minutes for the hottest part of the day. I can then check the min/max on the wireless thermometer to see if that was OK. 

Yesterday evening DH and I verified that the newest plan for the outside chicken run will work. It is the best so far as it gives them access to more shaded space under the old mesquite tree. We only had to cut off one more tree limb for it to work. (The tree limb was already damaged and half dead so it should not hurt the tree.) The shade should cover just over a third of the expanded planned chicken run.

Task list: Feed and water chicks (try not to spend too much time watching them), remove screen protector from broken Kindle and put on replacement, pack broken Kindle for return to Amazon before the time runs out, resize and post photos, get Webcam working, ...


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## Carol Hanrahan

A Webcam?  We get a Webcam?!!!  Hooray!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> A Webcam? We get a Webcam?!!! Hooray!


Only if I can get it to work wirelessly without a computer as it is supposed to. Currently it is unhappy with the wireless router provided by our ISP.


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## drenee

I've got my fingers crossed for the webcam too.  
Carol and LL and I need something to replace our eagle cam in a few short weeks.
deb


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## Carol Hanrahan

That's right, Deb.  I wish we could band Stormy somehow and keep track of him!  I will surely miss him.  Annalog, you're on the hook now.  We need your chicks!


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## Annalog

I haven't yet dealt with the broken Kindle or gotten the Webcam working but I have resized some of the photos and uploaded them.
















19 May, still the first day the chicks arrived. They are three days old. After I put down fresh paper towels and all of the feeders and waterers. Barred Rock chick sleeping on its side.
















20 May, three days old, the chicks lined up at the feeder. The chicks had tipped the green and white waterer a little and water had soaked into the litter below it. After I had to fight with working in the tight space under the two sawhorses, I removed one sawhorse. It made a big difference when I had to crawl under the heat lamps to change or add paper towels.























21 May- 4 days old. Chicks should be kept between 90 and 95 F the first week. This chick seems comfortable. This roost design does not match what I have done.  _Raising Chickens for Dummies_ says NOT to use cardboard boxes for brooders. Well, the chicks are "outside the box" so I think that is OK. 
















I took out the paper towels as the chicks seem to be finding and eating food just fine. Besides, they keep digging out the wood chips and playing with them anyway. I don't think the paper towels are doing much now to stop them from eating the wood chips. Eating, drinking, pooping, sleeping - main activities in life of a chick.  (Not having the chicks on paper towels feels like no longer having to change diapers! )
















New Hampshire chick sleeping. Look, I'm balancing on the feeder!









23 May - Six days old. Cinnamon and a Nugget (NH) posing for the camera. (Until I can tell the pullets from the cockerels, all New Hampshires are called Nugget and the Barred Plymouth Rocks are called Fillet. With the way some of the chicks that I suspect are cockerels are acting, I have given up on calling them Tender. )
















Sleeping - three New Hampshires, one Barred Rock, and three Ameraucana. Ameraucana from left to right: Chip, Cinnamon, Dale. Two New Hampshires, three Barred Rock, and one Ameraucana: Ginger.


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## Annalog

I have been trying to get the chicks let me pick them up without chasing or trapping them. So far three or four of the NH (New Hampshire) and one of the Barred Rocks (BR) let me pick them up. I normally use one hand to scoop the chick up with my hand under their chest and stomach and their legs between my fingers. I use the other hand to steady their back if they try to fly. The BR likes to jump on the back of my hand instead.  I then lift the chick up so that it is just above the level of the boxes (one row) so that I can easily pet/rub the chick around its head, neck, back, wings, and chest. When the chick is calm, I put the chick back in the brooder. A few of the chicks come over and 'ask' me to pick them up. The BR seems to love getting rides up and down and would stay for me to do that several times in a row. The Ameraucana are much more skittish and difficult to pick up. I was only able to pick up Ginger once and she was unhappy the entire time. I will have to focus on a time when I am either inside the brooder or the chickens have been given the run of the 8'x8' space.

Geek Alert and Pun Warning

I had said earlier that the names were temporary and that chicks would only get permanent names when I was sure that the chick was a pullet (hen) or was one of the two roosters that we were keeping. Since the four Ameraucanas are all supposed to be pullets, I had given them temporary names of Ginger, Cinnamon, Chip, and Dale. Since their feathers have started coming in, Chip and Dale no longer look like chipmunks. I have changed their names to Clove and Nutmeg, partly because of their current coloring. That makes the four Ameraucanas (Ginger, Cinnamon, Clove, and Nutmeg) the four Pumpkin Pie Spice Girls. 

Of the ten Barred Plymouth Rock chicks, based on feather and leg coloring, I am fairly certain that the nearly black one with a white dot behind each eye is a pullet. I have started calling her Rosemary. I think that another two are probably pullets and a third might be a pullet. I am fairly certain that there are three that are cockerels and another two that might be cockerels. That leaves one BR that I cannot decide whether it is more likely to be a pullet or a cockerel. If I am lucky and have four BR pullets, then they will be the Scarborough Fair girls (Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme).

It will not be possible to tell which are likely to be pullets or cockerels with the NH until they are older. I am planning on naming the pullets with other spice/herb names. If one is the right color / temperament, I might call one Saffron with a nickname of Mellow Yellow. 

Rooster names of Rocky, Fowler, and Lenin/Lennon are still planned.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Love the pics Annalog!  and the names too!  What happens if you pick up and play with and sort of get attached to a cockerel?  

Quick funny story - once my cousin was visiting my aunt out in the country.  They decided to have fried chicken for dinner that night and my aunt told my cousin to go out and pick the chicken out.  Well, she picked it up and played with it.  At dinner time - she wasn't hungry!


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## Betsy the Quilter

Webcam?  What kind of webcam did you get, Annalog?  I'm interested in getting a webcam for the birdnest outside...

Betsy


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Love the pics Annalog! and the names too! What happens if you pick up and play with and sort of get attached to a cockerel?


I am planning on keeping two cockerels, one NH and one BR. They will stay named Nugget or Fillet until I am sure which cockerels I am keeping. Requirements for a cockerel to stay are: 

friendly - does not attack DH, daughter, or granddaughters
relatively quiet - does not crow excessively at night or early morning
does not attack other rooster
Not meeting the first two items is a guaranteed one-way ticket to the freezer. Not resolving the last with at least an armed truce could mean a one-way ticket for one of them. I expect that most cockerels will fail at least one of the requirements. I have black Velcro leg bands for use to identify birds that have earned a one-way ticket. I have other colors for use if I need to identify birds with an exemption.

I am trying to not get too attached to any chick that is not obviously a pullet. If one of the Ameraucanas turns out to be a cockerel I may be unhappy.



Carol Hanrahan said:


> Quick funny story - once my cousin was visiting my aunt out in the country. They decided to have fried chicken for dinner that night and my aunt told my cousin to go out and pick the chicken out. Well, she picked it up and played with it. At dinner time - she wasn't hungry!


I suspect that most, if not all, of the chickens destined for dinner will either spend time in the freezer first or be delivered to my mom for her dinner.

Mom also has first dibs on any culled hens as she has some recipes from her childhood intended for "stewing hens" that she wants to eat again. These recipes require chicken with meat that is not tender or soft or the result is mushy. (She has tried with regular and organic chicken from the store but that did not work.) I expect this to be the most difficult as it will mean dispatching a chicken I have had for at least two years. Therefore, if a hen is mean or unfriendly, it will probably be culled sooner than friendly hens. However, any hens that become favorites, like Hat and Bourbon from when I was a kid, will not be culled even if they stop laying and do not start again. If I am lucky enough to get a good broody mother hen, she will stay as well.


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## Annalog

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Webcam? What kind of webcam did you get, Annalog? I'm interested in getting a webcam for the birdnest outside...
> 
> Betsy


I bought the Cisco-Linksys Wireless-N Internet Home Monitoring Camera.


I have not gotten the Wireless feature to work.  Also this camera is definitely for inside use only. It would not work for an outside birdnest. 

I saw your Webcam setup for bird nest watching--any suggestions? thread today. After I bought mine, I also heard that wireless was probably not a good idea. However, I do not want a computer on all the time in the coop and it is too far to run cable.

EDIT: I am glad you are getting more replies to your thread than I did on mine (Wireless Web cam suggestions?). Maybe I should have realized that no responses meant that Wireless wasn't a good idea.  I am looking forward to seeing the result of your thread for when I want to put an outdoor Webcam in to watch the chicken run.


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## B-Kay 1325

Annalog, thanks for the pictures and the amazing information.  I grew up in the city and didn't even realize where the meat came from until a neighbor lady decided to "harvest" her own chickens one Sunday morning (I don't know where she got them as she did not raise them).  Needless to say me and my brothers and sisters told our Mom that her usual Sunday dinner of fried chicken was not a good idea.  We didn't eat chicken for several weeks after that.  I definitely do not want to meet my meat before I eat it. LOL


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## Ann in Arlington

I will admit that my first thought on seeing the pictures of the chicks was "Aren't they cute?  Someday they'll be delicious."


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## prairiesky

I am sooo happy to have found this thread.  I am loving your endeavor and your photos.  I have toyed with the idea to get a few chicks for a backyard coop (in the city).  After reading your thread, I am realizing that it may be more than I bargained for.


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## Annalog

prairiesky said:


> I am sooo happy to have found this thread. I am loving your endeavor and your photos. I have toyed with the idea to get a few chicks for a backyard coop (in the city). After reading your thread, I am realizing that it may be more than I bargained for.


Two to six chickens in a backyard city coop is MUCH easier than what I have been doing. Many of my precautions are because I do NOT have a fence or wall around my property and I DO have many types of predators in the area who would love to eat chicken. Also, I want a breeding flock with two breeds of chickens. This means a bit more work and preparation than is necessary for a few hens in the backyard.

Also, since I had not raised chicks myself, I was being more cautions and careful than has turned out to be necessary. I will write a post in a couple weeks listing my lessons learned, what worked well, what didn't, and what was unnecessary.

EDIT: My guess on time necessary to take care of a few chickens, once the brooder and coop are set up, would be 15 minutes in the morning and again at night with an hour or so once a week for clean-up and maintenance. However, I would expect that at least another hour a day would be spent just watching and playing with the chickens.


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## Annalog

We did not get the two chicken doors in the coop today but framing and outside doors should be in tomorrow. I want the bottom of the chicken doors to be two feet above the floor. This morning DH was trying to convince me that this would be impractical. I finally found a picture on the Web of what I wanted and he reluctantly agreed. During breakfast I found out that the reason he wanted the chicken doors lower was so that "when I get tired of chickens" the chicken doors will be perfect to have garden railroad trains go in and out of the shed.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Analog, do you have to worry about foxes? My aunt had a fox get over a 6' fence into her chicken yard. He had killed all of them but 2 - one had flown over that fence and perched in a tree. Even though the fox could only carry one chicken away - he killed as many as he could. My aunt said that's what foxes do.


Spoiler



She knew that fox would be back, and was waiting for him with her shotgun. She got him, too. I know that is offensive to many people. After that story, I can see why fox hunts were started.


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Annalog, do you have to worry about foxes? ...


No foxes. Coyotes, dogs, skunks, hawks, owl, snakes are the main predators I need to worry about. These are the ones I have focused the defenses against. If a mountain lion or bobcat comes around, I will just hope the defenses are good enough.

When we had chickens when I was a kid, sometimes coyotes would come and take and kill a single chicken.


Spoiler



However a couple times neighborhood dogs got in, killed every chicken they could catch and left them all. EDIT: Mom cleaned up the mess before we got home from school.



That is why I am so careful about protecting my chickens.


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## corkyb

Oh my this is terrible.  
Paula ny


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## Annalog

I added spoiler tags to my previous post  as well as an aditional sentence.


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## Sean Sweeney

Ann in Arlington said:


> I will admit that my first thought on seeing the pictures of the chicks was "Aren't they cute? Someday they'll be delicious."


Mmmm nuggets.


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## Annalog

After working on the coop over the weekend, we have finished most of the work on the lower half of the walls. As a result, I have been able to rearrange the boxes so that the chicks now have access to 3/4 of the 8'x8' space and they are only blocked from the area around the interior door. That will let DH feed and water them without being bothered by the chicks while I am away next week.

Some of the chicks have been getting a bit rougher in their determination of the flock pecking order. I suspect that most of the more aggressive behavior has been from cockerels as these chicks have slightly larger combs than the more passive chicks. A couple of the chicks have moved from just seeking who can keep their head higher while staring at the other chick, to pecking on the other chicks head, to pulling on head feathers and not letting go. DH told them that cock fighting is illegal but the cicks did not pay attention. They did stop temporarily when I yelled "NO!" at them.


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## Annalog

Ann in Arlington said:


> I will admit that my first thought on seeing the pictures of the chicks was "Aren't they cute? Someday they'll be delicious."





John Fitch V said:


> Mmmm nuggets.


The yellow/orange ones are named Nugget while the black and white ones, especially those with more white than black, are named Fillet for a reason.


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## Sean Sweeney

The weasel is like me when it comes to chicken.


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## Annalog

Since I am working from home today, I checked on the chicks at lunchtime. Four of the NH chicks with the largest combs have red areas where the wattles will be. These chicks are almost certainly cockerels. Six of the eleven NH chicks have combs significantly larger than the other NH chicks. Therefore, my current estimate for the NH chicks is 6 cockerels and 5 pullets.

I could not see any red wattle areas on the BR chicks but based on feather coloring and comb size, I am still hoping for 4 hens and 6 cockerels. However I would not be surprised to have only 3 pullets.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Is that more cockerels than you were hoping for, Annalog?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Is that more cockerels than you were hoping for, Annalog?


Yes but but it is better than 90%. It is still possible that 90% of the BR are cockerels as only one BR is definitely a pullet; I am optimistically hoping that there are two or three more BR pullets.


Spoiler



Since I am only keeping two cockerels, more cockerels does mean more chicken for my mom.



It appears that most of the NH chicks and some of the BR chicks are now showing red wattle areas. The combs on a couple of the NH cockerels are turning from orange to red.

Friday I am leaving on a week-long vacation with my mom. I am working on making everything for DH to care for the chicks while I am gone. DH will be in Phoenix for a couple of those days for a work training session. He is making arrangements with a coworker who has chickens to feed, water, and check on the chicks for those days.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Oooh, have fun with your Mom on vacation!  Take lots of pictures!  Going anyplace special?  mmmmm??  Enquiring minds want to know! 
I bet those chicks will grow alot while you are away!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Oooh, have fun with your Mom on vacation! Take lots of pictures! Going anyplace special? mmmmm?? Enquiring minds want to know!
> I bet those chicks will grow alot while you are away!


Sedona, AZ - lots of hiking in beautiful places planned.

I expect the chicks will grow a lot. I hope that they do not forget me. I have been working on getting them comfortable with me handling them. I know DH will not be handling them.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog - are you back from vacation?  I hope you and your Mom had a nice time!  
This thread sank about 4 pages!
How are the chicks?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Annalog - are you back from vacation? I hope you and your Mom had a nice time!
> This thread sank about 4 pages!
> How are the chicks?


I returned from vacation late last night. Mom and I had an incredible time (hiking, sightseeing, hot air balloon ride, and 24 hour jeep rental). I did slightly hurt my right knee and ankle; nothing serious but annoying.

The chicks have grown! When I left, many were still at least half fuzzy down, now only a few chicks still have visible fuzz. They now look like small chickens. The differences between cockerels and pullets is becoming more pronounced.

Saffron and one other chicken seemed to remember me and the chicks, as a group, seem to be about the same in terms of friendliness and comfort around people.

This morning I worked on the chicken pen area. I finished laying the blocks for the support of the frame; I wore wrist support the entire time. Then, after rearranging the chicken area in the coop, I drove to Tucson for an origami club meeting and to buy more insulation and a chain link gate support bracket. Just before heading to checkout for the building materials, DH phoned. He had been working too hard in the nearly 100 F degree heat and had developed heat exhaustion. Fortunately he recognized the symptoms and got in the shade, and then inside the air conditioned house before it got too bad (no muscle cramps or fainting). He phoned me so that I could keep checking on him by phone. I reminded him about drinking water. He is now OK.

In rearranging the chicken area, I finally removed all of the cardboard boxes so the chicks have access to the entire 8'x8' area. Yesterday, while I was still gone, DH put up a 6 foot wire shelf in the chicken area. DH put it up about two feet lower than I had wanted but I think it is going to work out OK.

I think that six different chickens let me hold them today. I am not certain as a couple chicks wanted to be picked up several times.

I hope to get caught up with pictures soon. However I am trying to get the pen ready well enough so that the chicks can use it. They need access to the outdoors as soon as possible.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Great progress!  Yes, pictures, please, but only when you get time.


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## Annalog

DH had to take it fairly easy yesterday but he took down the pegboard on the back wall so that he could stub in the wiring and I could finish putting up the insulation. (It is great for us, as well as the chickens, that the coop has AC. ) I also put two coats of paint on various pieces of the chicken doors that DH cut on Saturday before he recognized the heat exhaustion symptoms. 

I raised the feeders and waterers another couple inches by placing the 2"x4" supports on 4"x8"x16" blocks instead of just double stacking them. My goal is to keep the food and water at the level of the chicks backs. That limits the amount of litter and poop that gets into the food and water. The chickens do not seem to have any concept of where the stuff they are scratching in is going! 

The chicks are five weeks old today. (Happy first day of Summer!) Only a couple still have baby fuzz sticking to their feathers. The differences between pullets and cockerels is becoming more noticeable. I am hoping that there will be four Barred Plymouth Rock pullets but only one is definitely a pullet. It still looks as if there will be five New Hampshire pullets. This morning Saffron jumped onto my shoulder from the top of one of the feeders while I was holding another chick. While she likes sitting on my shoulder now, that might not be possible (or desirable) later.


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## Annalog

Important Tip: Do NOT wear cut-offs or shorts in chicken coop when you have pink/red heat rash on your legs unless you want to do the Chicken Dance! Apparently the chickens thought I had spread wonderful chicken treats on my legs that they needed to peck.

EDIT: Fixed typo.


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## Carol Hanrahan

HaHa!  That is too funny, Annalog!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> HaHa! That is too funny, Annalog!


Yes, but true! Chickens seem to be very good at noticing any irregularity, especially if it is red.

I wear an old pair of running shoes when I go out to the chicken coop. The right shoe has a hole by my little toe. The chickens like to peck at my sock there. Freckles and age spots are other favorites of the chicks when I am holding them. I should have known better than to wear short jeans this morning so soon after vacation. (Sunscreen and heat for me are a certain way to break out with heat rash. It was a choice between red legs due to sunburn or heat rash. I decided that heat rash was the lesser of two evils. )


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## Annalog

DH and I got the chain link dog kennel put together over the weekend. However since I do not yet have the top covered or the smaller mesh hardware cloth on the inside of the chain link, the chickens can only go outside when I am out there with them. (Do not want hawks and owls to take any chickens and some of the chickens think they are small enough to go through chain link fencing.) 

Yesterday I saw a partial double rainbow on my drive home. We often get rainbows here before the rain, especially when there is rain verga (rain that evaporates before it hits the ground). Since there was almost an hour before sunset, I opened the chicken door to let the chickens out into the nearly finished pen. One chicken came out. After about 10 minutes the rain verga turned into rain. The chicken was not sure what was hitting it. It also tried to get the drops that hit the ground. However it only took the chicken about a minute to decide it should go back into the coop. Therefore I have at least one chicken that is smart enough to go in out of the rain!  It then took me a couple more minutes to get the coop door unwired and closed. By that time DH had come outside to see if I was smart enough to come in out of the rain! 

I am hoping to finish the pen and catch up with posting photos this weekend.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Looking forward to pics!


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## Annalog

Looking forward to getting them posted!


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## Annalog

I still have not had time to post pictures.    

With the hotter weather, I have been spending all of my time trying to keep the chickens as cool as possible. They were showing early signs of heat stress each time the temperature increased. They would be better for a few days as we figured out an additional way to help keep them cool. Then the temperature would go up again.   Their water containers are filled each morning with all the ice my freezer ice maker can make. The window air conditioner and the box fan are both running full time during the day while at night the AC unit is set to fan and the box fan is running as well. The outside yard has had a mist system added but they currently only go outside in the afternoon when their yard is shaded and we are home. I hope to get their shade cloth installed this weekend. The hardware cloth canopy is nearly finished. With the canopy and shade completed, they will be able to go outside anytime they want to during daylight hours.

Other news: Weekend before last some of the cockerels started trying to tread the pullets. We also heard some attempts at crowing but never got to see which ones were crowing. This past weekend, the Barred Plymouth Rock cockerel with the largest comb started crowing repeatedly when I was filling the food and water in the morning. Yesterday one of the New Hampshire cockerels also started crowing. When the chickens are outside, the cockerels seem to fight a bit more aggressively.

The chickens have had intermittent access to the outside for the last couple weeks. I knew that this meant they would be exposed to the Coccidia parasites that cause coccidiosis. Because of this I was planning on completely changing the litter over the weekend. I have also been watching their droppings for changes that would indicate infection. I did not get the litter changed as I ran out of time but I did buy the bales of shavings. On Tuesday one of the New Hampshire pullets was showing signs of illness: hunched posture, fluffed feathers, slightly listless, and one eye was closed. However these signs could indicate other problems such as respiratory infection, sinus infection, or injured eye. I also saw a couple droppings that were a little too runny. I changed the litter Tuesday night. I was planning on isolating her in a rabbit cage that I had bought used as soon as I cleaned it in the morning. However, Wednesday morning the pullet was much better as her eye was open, she was no longer hunched, and she ran to eat the morning mash. She now appears completely fine. I suspect that she had a combination of mild coccidiosis aggravated by heat stress.


----------



## sem

Being a chicken Mommy seems like an awful lot of work! (and worry)


----------



## Annalog

sem said:


> Being a chicken Mommy seems like an awful lot of work! (and worry)


Especially if you start with 25 chicks. It is LOTS easier with two to four from the feed store!


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## Carol Hanrahan

How do you treat a chicken with the coccidia parasite?  Can they die from it?  How serious is it?  goodness, Annalog, with how busy you've been, no wonder there's no time to post pics!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> How do you treat a chicken with the coccidia parasite? Can they die from it? How serious is it? goodness, Annalog, with how busy you've been, no wonder there's no time to post pics!


Yes, chickens can die from this. From http://www.millerhatcheries.com/Information/Diseases/coccidiosis.htm



> ...
> How do coccidia harm chickens?
> 
> Several factors influence the severity of infection. Some of these are:
> 
> * The number of oocysts eaten. Generally, an increase in the number of oocysts eaten is accompanied by an increase in the severity of the disease.
> * Strain of coccidia. Different strains of a species may vary in pathogenicity.
> * Environmental factors affecting the survival of the oocysts.
> * Site of development within the host. Coccidia that develop superficially are less pathogenic than those that develop deeper.
> * Age of the bird. Young birds are generally more susceptible than older ones.
> * Nutritional status of the host. Poorly fed birds are more susceptible.
> ...
> 
> How will I know when my chickens are infected?
> 
> The most easily recognized clinical sign of severe cecal coccidiosis is the presence of bloody droppings. Dehydration may accompany cecal coccidiosis. Coccidiosis caused by E. tenella first becomes noticeable at about three days after infection. Chickens droop, stop feeding, huddle together and by the fourth day blood begins to appear in the droppings. The greatest amount of blood appears by day five or six and by the eighth or ninth day the bird is either dead or on the way to recovery. Mortality is highest between the fourth and sixth days. Death may occur unexpectedly, owing to excessive blood loss. Birds that recover may develop a chronic illness as a result of a persistent cecal core. However, the core usually detaches itself by eight to ten days and is shed in the droppings.
> ...
> A few good management practices are listed that will help control coccidiosis. Contact your veterinarian for full details.
> 
> * Anitcoccidial drugs mixed in the feed are used to limit high levels of infection.
> * Keep chicks, feed and water away from droppings.
> * Roost birds over wire netting if brooding arrangements make this possible.
> * Place water vessels on wire frames to eliminate a concentration of wet droppings, in which the chicks can walk to pick up or spread the disease.
> * Keep litter dry and stirred frequently. Remove wet spots and replace with dry litter.
> * Avoid overcrowding.
> * If coccidiosis does break out, start treatment immediately.
> ...


Most medicated feed has a chemical that inhibits the active transport of thiamine in the parasites. (Some people say this also affects absorption of thiamine (B1) in the chickens as well.) While the medicated feed has the drug at a low level to prevent infection, this drug and others (such as sulfonamides) can be used at higher levels to treat active infections. However it is also suggested to rotate drugs for them to be effective as the coccidia become resistant. There are several varieties of coccidia that can infect chickens and each has somewhat different impact.

From http://www.baycox.com/78/Control-of-Coccidiosis-in-Chicken.htm:


> In the breeders segment, unlike broilers, mild infections are desirable to induce a challenge immunity. If this immunity is not achieved, there is a danger of considerable damage being caused by coccidiosis in subsequent commercially important periods. This is the reason for the increase in the use of a coccidial vaccine in this segment. Nonetheless, it is important to balance the severity of the infection and the therapeutic treatment.


While I am not concerned about "commercially important periods," I am interested in letting my chickens breed and raise chicks. The non-drug approach is to let the birds develop an immunity to the local types of coccidia and to practice all of the good hygiene and nutrition suggestions. This is the approach I am taking. I am also watching the birds and their droppings so that if it appears that there is an outbreak of coccidiosis I can start treatment by medicating their water.

It is my understanding that coccidiosis is usually not a problem for someone with just a few chickens in an area where chickens (or related birds) have not been kept before. It is also usually not a problem when a mother hen raises chicks as the chicks develop an immunity from contact with the droppings of the hen. (I have learned that I should have exposed my chicks when they were just a few days old. However by the time I learned that they were 3 weeks old. ) However I have more than a few chickens  in an area with a large quail population. Some of the coccidia that infect quail can infect chickens. Also until I finish the outdoor pens, as the chickens grow the space is becoming a bit more crowded than I would like it to be. I should have the first pen finished (without all of the shade cloth) tomorrow so that the chickens can go outside when they want to during the day instead of just in the evenings after I get home from work.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog, I've been gone for a few weeks.  Can you update us?


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## SarahBarnard

Oh wow, chickens.....
I have 4 but I didn't raise them myself.


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## Annalog

All of the chickens appear to be healthy and doing well. The top couple roosters are crowing very well. Fortunately the insulation we put in the coop seems to help with the noise until I let them out in the morning. Even more important is that our nearest neighbor likes the sound of crowing roosters. 

I have been spending nearly every free minute working on something for the chickens. DH has been helping as well.

The chicken pen is finished well enough for the chickens to be out all day. Of course they go into the coop when it is too hot or when it is raining very hard. The pen has 1/2 inch hardware cloth (welded wire mesh with 1/2 inch square openings) on the bottom 3 feet inside the 6 foot chain link. The top of the 8' x 13' pen has a framework of PVC pipe that is covered with hardware cloth as well. This is to keep hawks and owls out and the chickens in. There is also shade cloth covering the center 3/5 of the pen. In addition to providing shade, this also reduces the impact of many of the thunderstorms and rain showers. The temporary ramp we put in (a couple scrap pieces of outdoor siding sitting on cement blocks) is still in place and the chickens seem to like that they can walk under it as well as over it.

We finally finished putting up the insulation and pegboard inside the chicken coop. However DH still needs to cut out the openings in the pegboard for the vents. Fortunately it is pegboard and the holes, as well as the open chicken door, seem to provide enough ventelation. We have also added 7 more feet of roost along two walls. We shortened the legs of the sawhorse roosts to 30 inches from 48 inches. This provided some more space as well as made it easier for the larger roosters to get up the ladder and onto the roosts. With the chickens growing, I have added a hanging feeder and waterer and have been able to now only use two jar waterers as well as the two larger outside waterers and the inside hanging waterer.


----------



## Annalog

Now that the chickens have nearly enough space and we have the cooling under control, I have been able to spend the last couple weekends working on the nesting boxes. (At least one of the pullets made a sound that reminded me of the cackle that hens do after laying an egg. Many of the pullets have started sitting the way I remember laying hens sitting.)

I built the nesting boxes out of PVC, hardware cloth, AstroTurf, and vinyl siding. (We had a lot of cut pieces of the siding left after adding a wall under our house after rodents ate our plumbing a couple years ago.) I designed the nests so that the eggs should roll out of the nest and into the people area of the coop. In addition, since the nesting boxes are made of plastic and metal, they should be easy to clean. Since I did not glue the PVC together, the boxes will be easy to disassemble or change. The chickens can still walk in the area under the nests so they have not lost any of their space. However, since it was late today (7 PM) when I finished putting the nesting boxes in the coop and let the chickens back in, I am not sure how the chickens will like them. I do know that the chickens do not seem afraid of the changes. (DH says that is because I change the arrangement in either the coop or the pen at least once a week; the chickens are used to everything changing. ) I do know that at least one chicken has tried to sit on top of the nesting box and has learned that the slant top does NOT allow roosting. I only have a couple more additions to the nesting box and then I should be ahead of the chickens needs for a little while. I have tons of pictures to post as soon as I can organize them and get them loaded.


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## Annalog

I read that adding 1 tablespoonful of apple cider vinegar to a gallon of water for the chicken waterers will reduce the bacteria and algae that grow in the water. It is also supposed to be good for the chickens. I have been doing this for the last week and it is amazing how much easier it is to clean the waterers, how clean they stay, and how much better the chickens seem to like the water. I bought unfiltered apple cider vinegar so that the "mother" is still in the vinegar. (Again, it is supposed to have more health benefits for the chickens that way.)


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## LCEvans

Good idea with the healthful vinegar. I use that myself and it cured my acid reflux.


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## Annalog

LCEvans said:


> Good idea with the healthful vinegar. I use that myself and it cured my acid reflux.


After reading some of the benefits for people of unfiltered apple cider vinegar and also smelling it morning and evening when I change the chicken's water, I was planning on buying two bottles when I go to the store today. That way I will have one for the house and one for the coop.


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## SarahBarnard

I add apple cider vinegar to the hens drinking water too - and a crushed garlic clove now and then too, and sometimes a drop or two of washing up liquid. The Garlic is a general conditioner for the hens and they seem to like it. It's anti-bacterial too. The washing up liquid is a worm deterrent.


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## Annalog

SarahBarnard said:


> I add apple cider vinegar to the hens drinking water too - and a crushed garlic clove now and then too, and sometimes a drop or two of washing up liquid. The Garlic is a general conditioner for the hens and they seem to like it. It's anti-bacterial too. The washing up liquid is a worm deterrent.


Thanks for the tips.

Have you noticed if the garlic affects the flavor of the eggs? (My chickens are 12 weeks old today so they are not quite old enough to lay eggs. I am eagerly waiting for them to start laying even though I know that should be at least a month away. )

A drop of liquid soap to about how much water? Two or three liters?

What kinds of hens do you have? How long have you kept chickens? Any other suggestions? Pictures?


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## SarahBarnard

A couple of drops of liquid in a drinker - which is erm, dunno, about 3 litres I think. It's not an exact thing, but my hens haven't had worms yet in 3 years.

No, nothing they eat seems to affect the flavour of eggs.

I started by rescuing 3 hens from an intensive battery farm and they were in a dreadful state when they arrived. They all recovered and then we lost one to a sudden death and one had to be rehomed but the third is still with us, although she doesn't lay any more.

I currently have my last rescued hen, a Cuckoo Maran, a Whitestar and a Black Rock.
This is them.








Left to right they are:
Rainbow the oldest and the rescued hen.
Rocky the Black rock - pale brown eggs, lays daily like clockwork.
Cookie the Cuckoo Maran - Huge dark brown eggs, and she's the one furthest away. Lays erratically but most days. 
Comet the Whitestar - white eggs, and she's the white hen. Skinny looking bird and small eggs but lays every day.


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## SarahBarnard

Slightly better pic.









Having a rest on some grass clippings from the mower.
Rainbow, Rocky and Comet.


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## Annalog

Sarah, your hens are beautiful and look very contented. Thank you for posting the photos.


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## SarahBarnard

Thanks Anna,
I wouldn't be without them now, and I won't buy eggs again!


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## Carol Hanrahan

Wow, beautiful hens, Sarah!  I'm living vicariously through both of you now! 

Annalog, thanks for the update!  Can't wait to see the pictures - but I can wait.  You're awfully busy!


----------



## Annalog

Annalog said:


> ... Of the ten Barred Plymouth Rock chicks, based on feather and leg coloring, I am fairly certain that the nearly black one with a white dot behind each eye is a pullet. I have started calling her Rosemary. I think that another two are probably pullets and a third might be a pullet. I am fairly certain that there are three that are cockerels and another two that might be cockerels. That leaves one BR that I cannot decide whether it is more likely to be a pullet or a cockerel. If I am lucky and have four BR pullets, then they will be the Scarborough Fair girls (Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme). ...


I was not lucky. It appears that Rosemary is the only pullet out of the ten Barred Rocks since the other nine Barred Rock chickens are growing saddle feathers. Fortunately, it still looks as if the 11 New Hampshires are 6 cockerels and 5 pullets. It appears that all four Ameraucanas are pullets. Summary: 15 cockerels and 10 pullets. WAY too many roosters!

Note for future: Do not order straight run of varieties that can be sexed based on feather coloring. I now know that Barred Rocks can be sexed based on feather coloring.

*Does anyone know a good way to weigh a chicken?* I need to decide which roosters stay and which do not. Since all of the roosters still seem very well behaved, I am probably going to decide mostly based on how well the roosters meet the standard for their breed. Part of that standard includes their weight.


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## SarahBarnard

I'd let them mature and then give them a cuddle! That way you get an idea of the size and solidity of the breast meat and legs. Or see if you can pop them in a box and weigh that way? Weigh the box first. Weigh them while asleep? 

Never tried so these are only ideas.


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## Annalog

SarahBarnard said:


> I'd let them mature and then give them a cuddle! That way you get an idea of the size and solidity of the breast meat and legs. Or see if you can pop them in a box and weigh that way? Weigh the box first. Weigh them while asleep?
> 
> Never tried so these are only ideas.


Good ideas. I spend time already trying to cuddle as many of the chickens as will let me do so without them getting upset. (The ones that don't want to cuddle still like to come close to me, even if it is just to peck at my shoelaces. ) Your box suggestion made me wonder if I could make a perch to sit on top of a scale. I could then cuddle the chicken and then put it on the perch to record the weight (less the weight of the perch). This morning, as the chickens were leaving the coop, I was thinking that a good time to weigh each chicken would be either as they were all coming out or all going back in to the coop.

I am going to have to put ID bands on their legs soon so that I can make sure I can tell them all apart. The four Ameraucanas (Ginger, Cinnamon, Clove, and Nutmeg) and the only BR pullet (Rosemary) are all easy to identify. However the 9 BR cockerels all look quite a bit alike. Three of the NH pullets are very similar in looks and the NH cockerels seem to come in pairs (a couple with large black Vs around their hackles, another couple with small black Vs, and the others with no Vs but seem redder). Also, since they are still only 3 months old, their looks keep changing.


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## Andra

OK, this is too funny.  I read the latest entries on this thread and the google ad at the bottom was "Build a Chicken Coop."


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## Annalog

Andra, I saw that ad last night and smiled. 

EDIT: And it is there again!


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## Annalog

Intense rain and thunder storm last night. Water somehow got into an outside electrical box at our house but the GFI acted as it should and cut off power to that circuit.  Result is that the chicken coop has no power.  Good thing it is now cooler outside and they like to be outside under the shade cloth, especially if the coop is too warm.

Roosters are becoming very vocal and are fighting more. I think of Dona when I hear the roosters crow. I will need to start dealing with some of the roosters this weekend. A friend told me she has a friend who says that "chicken soup cures crowing."

The combs of many of the hens are growing and turning red (from a pinkish orange). I believe that this is a sign that they are getting closer to laying.


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## Betsy the Quilter

I so enjoy reading this thread...it always makes me smile!

Betsy


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## SarahBarnard

Annalog said:


> The combs of many of the hens are growing and turning red (from a pinkish orange). I believe that this is a sign that they are getting closer to laying.


Yes!








The inset image is Comet when we first got her - note the tiny pale pink comb.
Main pic is the same bird in full lay - note the huge deep red comb!


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## Annalog

Betsy, your smiles make me smile. 

Off Topic:
I needed a smile as I am in a doctors office - gastroenterologist. That means I will need to drink that awful stuff in the near future in order to be 'scoped.' One of the joys of aging.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Just found this thread and enjoyed reading through it.  We had chickens when I grew up -- I sure miss fresh eggs.  I buy them once in a while from people around here, but the one neighbor who had become my regular supplier moved.  Most people here seem to do without the roosters (which is good--I'm in a subdivision, no acreage).  But the demand for free-range eggs is such that some people pay 3 dollars a dozen...I don't get them unless I'm trading my veggies for them.    Great thread with such details!

Maria


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## Annalog

Sarah, I am looking forward to when I can look at your post on a computer instead of on my K2.


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## Annalog

Maria, I am glad you found this thread and hope you find a new local supplier of eggs soon.


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## B-Kay 1325

The Goggle ad now says "Indulge your taste buds!  BUFFET At Harrah's Rincon".  Somehow seems a bit harsh! LOL

Annalog, I love this thread, keep posting please.


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## Annalog

Annalog said:


> Sarah, I am looking forward to when I can look at your post on a computer instead of on my K2.


Wow! What a difference!



B-Kay 1325 said:


> The Goggle ad now says "Indulge your taste buds! BUFFET At Harrah's Rincon". Somehow seems a bit harsh! LOL
> 
> Annalog, I love this thread, keep posting please.


I am starting with just two roosters. Definitely not enough for a buffet!


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## SarahBarnard

Annalog said:


> Wow! What a difference!


Huge difference and with the size of that comb if she wasn't laying me a beautiful white shelled egg every day I'd be worried I'd got a boy there. But apparently that's the way of the breed. She has an enormous long tail and is a skinny thing, but tough.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, are you getting eggs yet?  If not, how soon?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, are you getting eggs yet? If not, how soon?


Not yet but I hope soon. I have to reduce the rooster population this weekend as they are getting too rambunctious.


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## SarahBarnard

Chicken for dinner?


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## J.M Pierce

Wow! How did I miss this thread. I love chickens. I come from a long line of chicken farmers. My great grandparents back in the late 1800's started a chicken farm in Northwestern Kansas. Some of my earliest memories were playing on their farm in the early 70's (my great grandmother lived to be 103!). They also had an orchard with apples, pears, and peaches just to the north of the chicken yard, which at the time was about ten acres. Grandma Henkel loved it when the grandkids came because two things happened that she didn't have to do. My siblings and I would go to the orchard and see how far we could toss rotten fruit off of the ground and into the chicken yard. So grandma's orchard got cleaned up and the chickens got some extra food!

Fast forward to now, my modest little farm houses thirteen chickens. My flock consists mostly of Auracana's and Auracana crosses, the exceptions being one Plymouth barred hen, and one Butter Cup hen. I really like the large green and blue eggs the Auracana's provide and they lay nearly every day.

Who would have thought I'd ever find fellow chicken enthusiasts on the kindle forum? Too neat.

Take care all!

J.M.


----------



## Annalog

SarahBarnard said:


> Chicken for dinner?


Eventually. 



J.M. Pierce said:


> ... Fast forward to now, my modest little farm houses thirteen chickens. My flock consists mostly of Auracana's and Auracana crosses, the exceptions being one Plymouth barred hen, and one Butter Cup hen. I really like the large green and blue eggs the Auracana's provide and they lay nearly every day.
> 
> Who would have thought I'd ever find fellow chicken enthusiasts on the kindle forum? Too neat.
> 
> Take care all!
> 
> J.M.


Welcome J.M.! I would love to see photos of your flock. Also, any advice would be much appreciated!

I am still looking forward to the hens starting to lay. I suspect that they are currently too busy running from the roosters to think about laying eggs.


----------



## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> Eventually.
> Welcome J.M.! I would love to see photos of your flock. Also, any advice would be much appreciated!
> 
> I am still looking forward to the hens starting to lay. I suspect that they are currently too busy running from the roosters to think about laying eggs.


Thanks!

In my experience it takes a little time for the hens to settle down and start laying. I had trouble with a feral dog getting into my hen house the first year every few months (the problem is gone  ) and every time it got in, whether it killed a hen or not, all of them stopped laying for a month or so. They are very sensitive to external stress I think. Usually, the flock will go into moult all at the same time and that shuts down any egg production for a month or so. That'll happen at least a couple times a year. This year has been the best year for my flock. I went for a six month stretch, including the hot summer months, with getting nine to ten eggs per day out of a flock of thirteen hens. It was awesome!

I'll try to post some pics on Monday. I'm getting ready to head out of town tomorrow morning. Best of luck to you and take care!

J.M.


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## J.M Pierce

So I couldn't wait! I guess I don't have any current images of my flock so I'll show off these from three years ago. This is my son holding each. He wanted to take all of his animals to school for show and tell. Well, as you can imagine, hauling a flock of chickens into a grade school wasn't going to work out, so we took pics.

This is a little Bantam hen.









This was my favorite hen of all time. We called her "Briches" which is what my great grandma always called pants. I was so bumbed when this hen passed away.









And this was our first rooster named Captain Jack. He was a pussycat! My son was so proud of this picture. (Me too!)









Looks like I definately need to get some new pics. In the mean time, I hope you like these. Have a great night.

J.M.


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## Annalog

J.M., thanks for posting the pictures. Your son is very cute and he is holding some very nice looking chickens. That picture with Captain Jack is definitely a winner!

Have a safe trip!


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Maria, I am glad you found this thread and hope you find a new local supplier of eggs soon.


Maybe someday. But it's not looking likely at the moment. Perhaps I'll talk husband into just a couple... 

Meanwhile, I'm stuck with supermarket eggs. Hmph.


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## Annalog

Do not read the following if you do not want to know about how I have fewer roosters in the coop.

I have culled two of the roosters this morning and hope to cull another three tomorrow morning. Then there will 10 roosters and 10 hens. I hope to then cull another six roosters next weekend and maybe two of the remaining four the weekend after.

I followed the information on the YouTube videos of Joel and Daniel Salatin of Polyface Farm. (Kill cones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pRXhY5LFCE, evisceration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRF4EFOW2Vk, poultry parting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUHK-FMzOuc) Instead of metal cones, I used two vinyl traffic cones from Lowe's set upsidedown on two 2x4s set on two sawhorses. I had trimmed about 4 inches from the tip of each cone.

I did not separate the roosters or put them in cages the night before. Instead I took all of the food out of the coop last night just before "lights out" and then took the two roosters out, one at a time, this morning before the sun came up. This way there was less stress for the roosters while still allowing for at least 8 hours to clear food out of their system.

I had hoped to start at 5 am but it was just before 6 before I was ready for the roosters. I went into the coop while all the chickens were still up on the roosts. A couple of the roosters had already started crowing as it was possible to see some light in the east. I picked up one of the smaller Barred Rock roosters, held it right side up with one arm while able to hold the feet with the other hand or use that hand to open and close doors. I carried the rooster to the prepared area and put it into the traffic cone head first. I used a knife to cut the carotid arteries while holding the roosters head. The rooster seemed calm the entire time but I cannot say the same for myself. It was over very quickly.

I do not yet have any way to heat water outside for scalding so I did that in my kitchen. I used a kitchen trash bag to carry each rooster into and out of the house. I plucked the feathers outside and then carried the bird back into the house for evisceration and cooling in ice water. I was a bit surprised that it was as easy as Joel made it look on the video. (It was certainly easier than some of the other videos, Web pages, and books made it look.) The crop of each bird was completely empty and there seemed to be nothing in the intestinal tract except for inside the gizzard. I am not sure if this was partly due to luck and that the two smaller roosters were lower on the pecking order and therefore ate less than the top roosters or if the 8 hours at night in the coop without food will always be sufficient.

DH fed the rest of the chickens and let them out of the coop and into their pen while I was working on scalding and plucking.

I will be cutting up the two chickens after finishing this post.

While this went easier than I expected neither DH nor I want to eat chicken for a while.


----------



## Annalog

Do not read the following if you do not want to know about how I have fewer roosters in the coop.


Annalog said:


> I have culled two of the roosters this morning and hope to cull another three tomorrow morning. Then there will 10 roosters and 10 hens. I hope to then cull another six roosters next weekend and maybe two of the remaining four the weekend after.


Change in plans already. I will not cull any roosters tomorrow. Instead I will work on saving more ice, making more room in the freezer, and regrowing thumbnails. (I messed both of mine up pulling out pinfeathers.) I now plan on cullling four to six roosters next Saturday, none the weekend after that (Grandparents Day for youngest GD that Friday), and then more the Saturday after that.

I forgot to mention that I used the Hard Scald method (138-148° F for 30-75 seconds) which is common in the U.S. and removes the outer layer of skin as well as loosens the feathers.

The roosters I culled today were both Barred Rock. I put the following in the freezer:

*Chicken Part**Rooster 1**Rooster 2*Boneless and skinless breast and tenders6 oz8 ozThigh and drumstick with skin16 oz16 ozWings with skin and wingtip6 oz6 ozBack, neck, remaining ribcage, and skin16 oz20 ozTotal44 oz (2 lb 12 oz)50 oz (3 lb 2 oz)

I will be more experienced and organized next time and hope to be able to also save the feet, heart, liver, and gizzard. While none of these are parts I normally eat, I understand the feet add collagen to chicken stock and the others are certainly good in turkey gravy so should be good in chicken gravy. The organs of the two roosters looked very healthy. I also recognized the gall bladder and it should be easy to remove from the liver.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, you continue to amaze me.  Sounds like it went pretty smoothly and with little distress, which is a good thing!


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## Annalog

The information I found on www.backyardchickens.com and the information from the Salatins of Polyface Farm helped me quite a bit. (Of course, finding the info was helped greatly by Google. )


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## Annalog

During the last week the tensions have climbed in the coop. Of the 23 chickens, 10 are hens and 13 are roosters. The roosters have become more aggressive toward each other and some of the hens are banding together to avoid the roosters. On entering the pen to put the chickens in the coop for the night, DH saw one of the roosters laying on its side. As it started to get up, one of the roosters attacked it.

Do not read the following if you do not want to know about how I have fewer roosters in the coop.

I started at 4 a.m. this morning and culled 5 roosters: 3 Barred Rock and 2 New Hampshire. I did a bit better this time but the sharper knife I bought still is not good enough. DH started a fire in a portable outdoor fireplace and we used that to keep already heated water hot. It worked but it was hard to regulate the water temperature. It was much faster and nicer to pluck the chickens outside. However, either due to the water temp variability or due to me working on five chickens instead of two, there were more feathers and pin feathers left on the chickens I still took the chickens inside for evisceration. 

This time, while all five roosters had empty crops, two roosters still had poop at the end of their intestinal track. I was able to keep that from tainting the meat. I cut up the chickens and vacuum-packed them with a brand new FoodSaver after freezing the meat.

Two of the Barred Rocks had a lot of fat and one of the New Hampshires had a couple small bruises that looked as if they had been caused by pecking.

The hens now outnumber the roosters 10 to 8. I want to get the number of roosters down to two so that means 6 more roosters need to be culled. I also learned that five chickens is really too many for me to do in one morning. My current plan is to cull three roosters in two weeks and then three more a week or so later. It is possible that I will decide to keep two New Hampshires instead of one of each as both DH and I prefer the temperament of the New Hampshires.


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## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> During the last week the tensions have climbed in the coop. Of the 23 chickens, 10 are hens and 13 are roosters. The roosters have become more aggressive toward each other and some of the hens are banding together to avoid the roosters. On entering the pen to put the chickens in the coop for the night, DH saw one of the roosters laying on its side. As it started to get up, one of the roosters attacked it.
> 
> Do not read the following if you do not want to know about how I have fewer roosters in the coop.
> 
> I started at 4 a.m. this morning and culled 5 roosters: 3 Barred Rock and 2 New Hampshire. I did a bit better this time but the sharper knife I bought still is not good enough. DH started a fire in a portable outdoor fireplace and we used that to keep already heated water hot. It worked but it was hard to regulate the water temperature. It was much faster and nicer to pluck the chickens outside. However, either due to the water temp variability or due to me working on five chickens instead of two, there were more feathers and pin feathers left on the chickens I still took the chickens inside for evisceration.
> 
> This time, while all five roosters had empty crops, two roosters still had poop at the end of their intestinal track. I was able to keep that from tainting the meat. I cut up the chickens and vacuum-packed them with a brand new FoodSaver after freezing the meat.
> 
> Two of the Barred Rocks had a lot of fat and one of the New Hampshires had a couple small bruises that looked as if they had been caused by pecking.
> 
> The hens now outnumber the roosters 10 to 8. I want to get the number of roosters down to two so that means 6 more roosters need to be culled. I also learned that five chickens is really too many for me to do in one morning. My current plan is to cull three roosters in two weeks and then three more a week or so later. It is possible that I will decide to keep two New Hampshires instead of one of each as both DH and I prefer the temperament of the New Hampshires.


You are a machine Anna!


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## Betsy the Quilter

Ooh, Anna,

I have so much respect for you!  (My grandmother used to get live chickens from the "chicken lady" in Hibbing, so I guess she must have done this, too.  My mom spoke of it.)

I always find your writing in this thread fascinating!  You've got a mini blog going here!

Betsy


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## Annalog

J.M. Pierce said:


> You are a machine Anna!


Not really, I agonized quite a bit to decide which roosters should go first.



Betsy the Quilter said:


> Ooh, Anna,
> 
> I have so much respect for you! (My grandmother used to get live chickens from the "chicken lady" in Hibbing, so I guess she must have done this, too. My mom spoke of it.)
> 
> I always find your writing in this thread fascinating! You've got a mini blog going here!
> 
> Betsy


Thanks Betsy! Hibbing has been mentioned in this thread! (I forget if it has been mentioned earlier.)


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## Annalog

It is now certain that at least two of the remaining Barred Rock roosters are trying to prevent most of the other chickens from accessing food and water.  These two roosters station themselves between the various food and water stations and chase the others away. They are not eating or drinking most of the time but are keeping sentry. I have added more food and water locations at different levels (accessible from floor, roost, shelf) so that they cannot block them all.

DH had taken today off so that he could get tires in Tucson for his truck. He will be picking up another chain link dog kennel (6' x 10') and some plywood at Home Depot. If he has not already done it by the time I get home from work, I will move the three compost bins to a new location and off from a 4' x 8' garden bed surrounded by walkways made of pavers. We will assemble the kennel, add a roof that used to shade a porch, attach plywood at one of the corners to make a wind break, add the outdoor roost from the other pen, and move in the bullies. I will continue to add roosters to the "isolation pen" until I have a peaceful environment in the chicken coop and attached pen. The isolation pen is mostly out of sight of the other pen so the hens and remaining roosters should not continue to feel intimidated.

It certainly would have been much easier to just have hens! It would have been easier to have had a second pen from the beginning but I was short on time. Funny how it is possible to find the time when problems arise.  

I am nearly certain that the two roosters I keep will both be New Hampshires. There is at least one New Hampshire rooster that stays with a group of five or six hens and appears to be protecting them. There are at least three New Hampshire roosters that seem to be very tolerant of other chickens (hen or rooster).


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## Annalog

I have had a few different hens fly to either my shoulder or my arm. It is ok when they land on my shoulder but when a four pound weight suddenly lands on my wrist when I do not expect it, my arm usually drops.


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## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> I have had a few different hens fly to either my shoulder or my arm. It is ok when they land on my shoulder but when a four pound weight suddenly lands on my wrist when I do not expect it, my arm usually drops.


How much fun is that!


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## Annalog

Annalog said:


> I have had a few different hens fly to either my shoulder or my arm. It is ok when they land on my shoulder but when a four pound weight suddenly lands on my wrist when I do not expect it, my arm usually drops.





J.M. Pierce said:


> How much fun is that!


It is wonderful when I can support them! When I cannot, I feel as if I have let them down. Fortunately when that happens they flap their wings and fly down to the floor or ground.


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## Annalog

Do not read the following if you do not want to know about how I have fewer roosters in the coop.

Yesterday I culled three Barred Rock roosters and two New Hampshire roosters. I put the following in the freezer in vacuum sealed packages:

*Chicken Part**Roosters 3-7**Total*Boneless and skinless breast and tenders3 @ 9 oz, 2 @ 10 oz 47 oz (2 lb 15 oz) (1.33 kg)Thigh and drumstick2 @ 16 oz, 2 @ 17 oz, 1 @ 18 oz 84 oz (5 lb 4 oz) (2.38 kg)Wings with skin and wingtip2 lb 1 oz 33 oz (2 lb 1 oz) (.94 kg)Back, neck, remaining ribcage2 @ 14 oz, 3 @ 16 oz 76 oz (4 lb 12 oz) (2.15 kg)Total 290 oz (18 lb 2 oz) (8.22 kg)


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## J.M Pierce

Hello Anna!
Hey, do you free range your chickens? If yes, do you feed anything to supplement? I just thought I'd share my supplement feed with you. I buy a 50 pound bag of sweet stock (percentage doesn't seem to matter), a 50 pound bag of cracked corn, a 50 pound bag of milo, and a 50 pound bag of layer granules. I mix these up in equal proportions (a little lighter on the layer than the rest) and then keep it all in a thirty gallon barrel. The reason I mix a little lighter on the layer formula is that I read (can't remember where   ) that it has too much of something that can be harmful to the roosters. Anyway, my flock seems to flourish on this diet, and coupled with the swarms of grasshoppers that we've had this year, they are fat, sassy, egg laying machines! That and two hundred pounds of feed only costs me around forty bucks when I do it this way!

Good luck with everything and take care!

J.M.


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## Annalog

Hello J.M.!
I do not yet free range my chickens as we do not yet have a fence around our acre to protect the chickens from free ranging coyotes and dogs. However we have plans to add a wall across the back and a fence down the sides and across the middle of the front. We also have plans for a chicken moat around the garden which will be finished earlier. We will probably put in some temporary fencing between the two sheds (large shed and chicken coop and the two nearest corners of the house so that we can let them range supervised fairly soon.

I will keep your supplement feed formula in mind as it sounds good. I am currently pulling up plants from the yard (clumps of grass with seed heads, sunflower plants, purslane, tender tumbleweeds, etc.) and putting them in the pen each morning before I let the chickens out and then leave for work. I am also adding healthy treats from my kitchen when available. I think I read that it was the added calcium in the layer formula that was not good for roosters to have too much.  I am currently putting out some game bird mash in the outside feeders in addition to the layer formula. (I had gotten the game bird mash one week while waiting for unmedicated chick starter/grower mash to arrive after I had run out of the first couple bags.) I delayed a few weeks in switching from starter/grower to layer pellets. As soon as I can separate the roosters I will be able to feed them differently.


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## Annalog

We did not get the new pen started yesterday. DH is taking today off so that he can move the three compost bins and start the pen setup. He will need to wait until I get home to attache the chain link to the pen. I hope we can move the roosters tomorrow morning.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, nice to get caught up on your chickens!  They are keeping you busy!


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## Annalog

Carol, they certainly are! 

I talked with DH on the phone late this morning. He did not get very far with the "Isolation Area" prep before his allergies struck big time. I spoke with him a little while ago and he is doing much better but I suspect that it won't be until tomorrow night that the bullies will get moved. Fortunately adding the additional temporary food and water locations has resulted in the intimidated chickens getting more to eat and drink.

DH said he got the walkways cleared but did not get the compost bins moved. If so, then I suspect I will be getting out the long extension cord and some lights on stands so that I can continue working after the sun sets. 

ETA: When I phoned to say I was starting my hour-long drive home, I asked DH to get out the extension cord and the work lights so I could move compost. I got two of the three bins moved. I stopped then as I could not see around the third bin well enough. I did see a full grown centipede run away as I was scooping the last of the second bin.


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## Annalog

I finished moving the third compost bin before starting work today. The contents of the three bins are now in two bins. The compost was long overdue for turning.  

I am working from home today and had hoped to start assembly of the pen at lunch and finish after work. However DH phoned me on his way to work to make sure I had the doors locked. He saw some sheriff officers had their guns drawn and were searching the desert across the road behind our back yard. I had seen a sheriff's van go past slowly while I was shoveling compost this morning and had thought nothing of it.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Wow, Anna, you made my skin tingle with that last post!  Take care!  Eeeessshhhhh......


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Wow, Anna, you made my skin tingle with that last post! Take care! Eeeessshhhhh......


I still do not know what was going on this morning or if it is still going on. I am staying in the house until I know it is OK or DH gets home. So much for working in the garden beginning setup of the pen during lunch.

When I was working in the garden this morning, my view of the road was mostly shielded by a 4' x 4' block of asparagus and several mesquite trees. I had only noticed the sheriff vehicle because of the noise as it was driven on the gravel shoulder of the road. That caused me to look up and see the flashing lights. However I did not see anything else. I don't know why I was not more curious but I did wonder if anyone had complained about the roosters. Then I thought that could not be it as there are at least four other roosters in the area based on what I can hear in the morning.


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## Annalog

The excess roosters will not be moved to the pen until this weekend as the pen is still not built. I missed working on it during lunch as I did not know if the sheriff officers were still out hunting someone or something. I went out after work and carried the corner pieces out and put them in in their approximate locations. I was walking back to start carrying the cross bars when I felt something bite my knee. I hurried into the house so I could see if something had crawled up my leg. It was a red ants, one on my knee and one on my shoe. I had two bites on my knee. I put ammonia and ice on my knee followed by hydrocortisone cream. My knee is now swollen at the top of the kneecap. Since I am driving to Chandler (outside Phoenix) after work tomorrow to attend Grandparents Day at my granddaughter's school, the pen will need to wait until Sunday morning as I will not be home until late on Saturday.      DH has instructions for the multiple food and water locations so I should not return to starving hens.

As to the officers this morning, DH suspects drug runners as he did not see any border patrol cars. The road behind our house is the one that goes from Benson north through Cascabel and Redington. It is apparently a favorite route for smuggling drugs and people as it avoids Tucson. It is also a shorter, not faster, route to Phoenix from Douglas.


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## Carol Hanrahan

So If you're living on a drug runners route, maybe you should get some geese.  I've heard they're excellent watchdogs!   (I'm as chicken as your hens!   )


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## Annalog

First egg today! One of the Easter Eggers laid a beautiful green egg today. I think it was Ginger but I am not sure. It was about half the size (length) of a large egg.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Yay!  Soon you will be flush in eggs!  Green - that is cool.  I heard once the egg color corresponds to the hen's ear color.  Is that true?


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## Annalog

My understanding is that most chickens with white earlobes lay white eggs, chickens with red earlobes lay brown eggs, and chickens that lay blue or green eggs usually have white red earlobes. However one of my not-quite-Ameraucana hens has white earlobes. Due to the beards and muffs, I cannot see the earlobes on the other three. The 4 Easter Eggers do have the typical slate/olive green legs of Ameraucana chickens. I hope that at least one of them will lay blue eggs. 

EDIT: According to Henderson's Chicken Breed Chart, Ameraucana and Araucana chickens are supposed to have red earlobes. I am going to have to check the color of Cinnamon's ear lobes. (She does not have a muff and almost no beard.)


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## Annalog

Today there was another pullet egg. This one was a bit larger and a pale brown that almost looks pink so it must have been from one of the New Hampshire hens.

For the second night in a row, DH and I had a Good dinner: 1/2 fried egg with toast.


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## J.M Pierce

I lost one of my old Auracana hens yesterday.  

I don't know how old she was, but I've had her for four years and she was an older girl when I got her. Rest is piece Pip!


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## Annalog

J.M. Pierce said:


> I lost one of my old Auracana hens yesterday.
> 
> I don't know how old she was, but I've had her for four years and she was an older girl when I got her. Rest is piece Pip!


J.M., I am sorry to hear about your Auracana hen. I am sure she will be missed. Rest in Peace Pip.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> My understanding is that most chickens with white earlobes lay white eggs, chickens with red earlobes lay brown eggs, and chickens that lay blue or green eggs usually have white red earlobes. However one of my not-quite-Ameraucana hens has white earlobes. Due to the beards and muffs, I cannot see the earlobes on the other three. The 4 Easter Eggers do have the typical slate/olive green legs of Ameraucana chickens. I hope that at least one of them will lay blue eggs.
> 
> EDIT: According to Henderson's Chicken Breed Chart, Ameraucana and Araucana chickens are supposed to have red earlobes. I am going to have to check the color of Cinnamon's ear lobes. (She does not have a muff and almost no beard.)


Catching up on reading all about your culling and aggressive roosters! Wow! You and my grandma--you go girls!

As for the earlobes, we (grammy) had all white chickens of unknown origin. We still got green and bluish eggs once in a while, but most were white, with brown being the second most common color. I never really checked the earlobes since I didn't know they HAD earlobes.


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## Annalog

The earlobes are those spots on the side of their heads that are below the ears, behind and below the eyes, and above and behind the wattles. Some are small and some are large. Google "chicken earlobes" to see images and diagrams.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> The earlobes are those spots on the side of their heads that are below the ears, behind and below the eyes, and above and behind the wattles. Some are small and some are large. Google "chicken earlobes" to see images and diagrams.


Sure, I see that *now* but since grammy's chickens are long gone there is no way I'd remember if they were different colors/shapes/sizes. According to my memory there were no earlobes.  I remember the wattles. All red.

On a completely different subject, I hope that you are able to compost your chicken shavings/droppings. I cannot find a single chicken owner around here with a compost pile for sale. We have horse and cattle compost fairly readily, but turkey and chicken? Only from a few of the big mulch places and they want...gulp, 45 dollars a yard--no delivery.

The garden will be composted horse manure even though I really wanted bird or guano droppings. Yes, I really said that.


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Sure, I see that *now* but since grammy's chickens are long gone there is no way I'd remember if they were different colors/shapes/sizes. According to my memory there were no earlobes.  I remember the wattles. All red.
> 
> On a completely different subject, I hope that you are able to compost your chicken shavings/droppings. I cannot find a single chicken owner around here with a compost pile for sale. We have horse and cattle compost fairly readily, but turkey and chicken? Only from a few of the big mulch places and they want...gulp, 45 dollars a yard--no delivery.
> 
> The garden will be composted horse manure even though I really wanted bird or guano droppings. Yes, I really said that.


I am definitely composting my chicken droppings and used litter! I am looking forward to using the compost in my garden. 

I suspect that most of the white chickens your grandmother had had white earlobes since they laid white eggs and since you did not notice the earlobes. (How noticeable would white skin be among white feathers?) Also, the few that had red earlobes would not be too noticeable as the earlobes would blend into the red wattles.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> I am definitely composting my chicken droppings and used litter! I am looking forward to using the compost in my garden.
> 
> I suspect that most of the white chickens your grandmother had had white earlobes since they laid white eggs and since you did not notice the earlobes. (How noticeable would white skin be among white feathers?) Also, the few that had red earlobes would not be too noticeable as the earlobes would blend into the red wattles.


The year I was able to get chicken compost, I had THE best garden--huge tomato crop. Alas, that was many years ago and now that I'm moving the garden and starting over...there is none to be found so it is horses for now...


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## Annalog

Somehow one of Easter Eggers got into people side of the coop yesterday. DH found her there when he checked on them after getting home from work. The hen was OK but had knocked stuff over trying to get back to the chicken side of the coop. He said she was happy to go through the people door when he opened it. DH did not find any eggs. (I stayed at my mom's that night since she started chemo again that day.) 

Tonight I found a green egg in the rollout section of the nesting box and a broken green egg shell (completely eaten) under the shelf. After we get the roosters moved out this weekend I will block access to the shelf.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Maria, I wonder if you might ask at your local farmers market - if someone there sells eggs - if they have chicken poop for compost?

Ana - the broken egg shell?  An accident or?


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## Annalog

Carol, I think your idea of asking at farmers markets is a great one.

I think the broken egg was an accident since the shelf is over four feet above the floor and is not intended for use by the chickens. However the timid chickens are currently using it to keep away from the roosters. I am sure the egg fell by accident as there is little room and no ledge on the shelf. It may have cracked or broken from the fall. I hope the egg was eaten only by roosters who will be moved to the new pen tomorrow as I do not want egg eating to become a habit. 

I was encouraged to find the one egg in the rollout nest after I had put the wooden eggs there. I am not sure if that is how the one hen got out as I had not yet secured the backs of the nests.


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## MariaESchneider

We do have a new farmers market.  I suspect that their compost might be outside my price range.  They charge 4 dollars a dozen for eggs (outside what I can afford, I'm afraid).  But next time I am there, I will definitely ask.  

I think most people keep a fairly small flock and if they garden as well as have eggs, they probably don't get a lot of extra.  The town here had grown so much that farmers, eggers and ranchers have been pushed further out in recent years!


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## Annalog

Yesterday I found another small green egg on the shelf. Today I found three eggs: a small green egg on the shelf, another small green egg on the floor, and a green egg in the nest. The green egg in the nest was as long as a large egg from the store but much smaller in diameter. I suspect that all four Easter Eggers are now laying. 

I checked the earlobes on the Easter Eggers this morning. All four have white earlobes but the one with no beard or muff has a mottled red and white edge to her earlobe. 

DH and I finished the Rooster Retreat (or Bachelor Pad) this afternoon. The 6'x10' pen has a wire mesh roof, shade cloth, and a shelter with roosts. (Not only should they be safe from cats, dogs, coyotes, hawks, and owls but they should also be safe from the four vultures that were circling overhead today.) After I set up the food and water, I moved in three Barred Rock roosters and one New Hampshire rooster. These are the four roosters that were causing the most trouble to the other chickens. (None of the roosters were ever agressive toward me or DH.)

After these roosters had been gone from the coop for a while, I could tell that the remaining chickens were much calmer. There is still one New Hampshire rooster that needs to be moved to the Rooster Retreat as he tries to keep the other chickens from eating. However, a few of the hens were ignoring him as he could not guard all four feeders on the floor as well as the one on the shelf. I will move him tomorrow. That will leave three roosters (one Barred Rock and two New Hampshires) in with the ten hens in Cluckinghen Palace. Hopefully they will stay friendly with each other and the hens. It will be great if the remaining roosters do not also change into bullies.


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## Annalog

I am not sure when the roosters in the Retreat started crowing this morning but it was at least 30 minutes before the sun came up.


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## MariaESchneider

Maybe with less roosters around the other roosters won't feel as competitive and won't need to be bullies!


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## MariaESchneider

P.S.  Grammy always said that some roosters crowed at all hours of the night and day.  I know some of hers would crow in the daytime; I remember it quite well.  Peacocks from the neighbors used to make an unholy noise whenever they felt like it (usually early afternoon.)  Grammy didn't keep many roosters.  We must have had 20 chickens, but I'd venture to guess no more than 4 roosters and usually 2.  But memories aren't perfect.  I could be wrong.


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## Annalog

I know that my roosters crow all day but most often in the morning and late afternoon. I moved the fifth rooster into the Retreat this morning. The three remaining roosters in the coop are still acting mellow. (EDIT: Yes, I know it is too early to tell.  ) More of the hens are going into the outside pen and they definitely seem much more comfortable. 

I fixed french toast this morning with the five eggs I had in the refrigerator (the four small eggs and one long egg). It turned out that the long egg was a double-yoker! This was just barely enough for four pieces of french toast, two for DH and two for me. Not great for losing weight but yummy!


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## Carol Hanrahan

That is so cool you are using your eggs!  Yay!


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## Annalog

Tonight I did not see the egg on the floor as it was partially covered with litter. It was unbroken until I stepped on it!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> That is so cool you are using your eggs! Yay!


Thanks, I think it is cool also.

This morning I heard the roosters start crowing at 5 AM but only because I was already awake.


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## Thea J

Hello,

I've seen this thread title and never bothered to investigate until today. Now I'm fascinated and delighted with your tales of chickens. Being a city person, I've never lived with chickens, so this drama has me spellbound. YAY for the chickens!


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## Annalog

Hello Thea. Glad you enjoyed the thread so far. I have been surprised by the interest in this thread. I also continue to be fascinated by the chickens..


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## Rita

Hey everyone! I'm new to your chicken thread also. I live on a farm and we started with just a few chickens years ago, but lately it seems like we've had a population explosion! These things are procreating like crazy!   I love having the fresh eggs to bake with, but I told my husband and son we're going to have to get rid of a few roosters because we are being over run. The hens when they're in the laying mood have taken over our two dog houses to lay their eggs. I don't know what our poor dogs are going to do this winter.   I don't mind the chickens or even the roosters crowing, but we have three guineas that just drive me crazy. They bark and bark and bark all the time. Well I call it barking anyway because they don't make the clucking sound that a chicken makes. We used to keep them in a coop, but the last few years they run free range. I kept hoping a coyote or fox would catch the guineas, but no such luck. I have said I was going to start target practicing, but my husband loves those stupid guineas.


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## Annalog

Welcome Rita. You make me glad that I did not get guineas! I read that they are wonderful for eating bugs from the garden without disturbing the plants too much.

Do your chickens have their own coop? Are their nesting boxes in the coop and the hens are ignoring them? Do they lay in the winter? How well do your dogs get along with the hens? Are the dog houses big enough for the dogs and the chickens? Can you tell that I spend too much time on the Random Question Thread?


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## Annalog

Rita, what kinds of chickens do you have? I would like my hens to raise some families but I have been told that my hens are not likely to become broody and I do not really want to incubate the eggs. I would much rather that the hens do most of the work. (I am a mom to my daughter and I have raised one set of chicks. I would rather be grandmother to the next generation.  )


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## Rita

Annalog said:


> Welcome Rita. You make me glad that I did not get guineas! I read that they are wonderful for eating bugs from the garden without disturbing the plants too much.
> 
> Do your chickens have their own coop? Are their nesting boxes in the coop and the hens are ignoring them? Do they lay in the winter? How well do your dogs get along with the hens? Are the dog houses big enough for the dogs and the chickens? Can you tell that I spend too much time on the Random Question Thread?


Thanks Annalog. We only have three guineas now, but I can't stand them. They get on my porch and are so loud and they poop every where. They are great tick eaters, but I would rather deal with the ticks!! They are also better watch dogs than my dogs. You always know when someone is around.

No, our chickens don't have a coop any longer. We had one with nesting boxes but we had a hard time getting them to go in at night. They roost in our trees. Yes, they do lay in the winter, but not as well. We have two dogs outside and they ignore them. The chickens ignore the dogs too.  The dog houses are regular sized and in the winter we usually have to run the chickens out so they dogs can get in.

I'm not really sure what kind of chickens they are. They are all mixed and come in a multitude of colors. I don't blame you in not wanting to incubate the eggs. That is way too much work.


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## Annalog

Rita, how big are your chickens compared to the guineas? How big are the eggs compared to eggs from the store? How far from the ground (or nearest jumping place) are the low branches of the trees? If they are not much bigger than the guineas then I think you might have bantam (smaller sized) chickens. If so, that would explain why they are brooding the chicks as the nesting instinct has not been bred out of them as much.

We had a mixed flock of bantam chickens when I was young. They were a lot of fun and some were very lovable and intelligent. They were also great flyers.


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## Betsy the Quilter

I soooo love reading this thread.  It always makes my day when there is an update.  Rita, post some pictures!!

Betsy


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## Annalog

Rita, I agree with Betsy. Please post some pictures.


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## LCEvans

Rita, I want to see pictures of the guineas. I love them, too, though I admit they are noisy. I would so love to have chickens again, but our neighborhood would not allow. I keep saying I'm going to get a 6 foot tall privacy fence and hide the chickens. Of course, I wouldn't be able to have any roosters. 

Linda


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## Rita

Annalog said:


> Rita, how big are your chickens compared to the guineas? How big are the eggs compared to eggs from the store? How far from the ground (or nearest jumping place) are the low branches of the trees? If they are not much bigger than the guineas then I think you might have bantam (smaller sized) chickens. If so, that would explain why they are brooding the chicks as the nesting instinct has not been bred out of them as much.
> 
> We had a mixed flock of bantam chickens when I was young. They were a lot of fun and some were very lovable and intelligent. They were also great flyers.


Annalog...Never once have our guineas laid eggs. They all the look the same to me so I don't know whether we have all females or all males.  The guineas are about the same size as our chickens. The branches they roost on are probably 6 - 7 feet off the ground. My husband says the chickens have some game in them, but are not bantams. We used to have some bantams a long time ago. I'm not very good with the different chicken breeds. That is my husband and son's department. 

I do have a picture of one rooster and one black chicken we have, but none of the guineas. I will try and take some pictures tomorrow.








[/URL][/IMG]







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Rita

Well I've tried posting the pics, but I guess I'm not doing it right. I click on the post image icon and go to Flickr and copy the BBC Code and then paste it between the img, but when I preview it doesn't show anything. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Annalog

Rita said:


> Well I've tried posting the pics, but I guess I'm not doing it right. I click on the post image icon and go to Flickr and copy the BBC Code and then paste it between the img, but when I preview it doesn't show anything. What am I doing wrong?


Rita, if you copy the BBC Code, then you can just paste that without clicking on the post image icon first because the BBC Code already has the img tags contained in it.

When you use the post image icon, then what you want to paste is just the address of the image which is usually something like: 


Code:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/numbers/morenumbersandletters.jpg

Depending on which browser you are using, you can usually get the address of the image by right-clicking on it, selecting Properties, and then selecting and copying the address assuming you are using Windows.
I...m/4088/5037325225_db5625f2a2.jpg[/IMG][/code]


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## Annalog

Rita, that is a beautiful hen and a handsome rooster!

Bantam chickens can be almost any breed; it does not mean that they are one of the Game breeds. According to Henderson's Chart, it appears that adult bantam chickens weigh between 1 to 2.5 pounds (usually less than 1 kg) depending on the breed while adult standard chickens weigh between 4 to 10 pounds (1.8 kg to 4.6 kg). It is because of the weight difference that bantams can usually fly higher. It is also why younger chickens can fly better than full grown chickens. My young but standard size chickens can easily fly/jump up 4 or 5 feet but only the smaller hens can fly up over 6 feet. The larger roosters already hesitate jumping down more than 3 feet. I make sure there is plenty of pine shavings (litter) cushioning their landings.

While bantam chickens might be 1/4 to 1/3 the size of a standard chicken, their eggs are just a bit smaller than a small standard chicken egg.

It is also possible that the chickens are crosses between the smaller and larger chickens so could be any size in between.


----------



## Annalog

Annalog said:


> I know that my roosters crow all day but most often in the morning and late afternoon. I moved the fifth rooster into the Retreat this morning. The three remaining roosters in the coop are still acting mellow. (EDIT: Yes, I know it is too early to tell.  ) More of the hens are going into the outside pen and they definitely seem much more comfortable.  ...


Yes, it was definitely too early to tell! This morning the largest of the three remaining roosters in the coop, a New Hampshire, was fighting with the Barred Rock rooster. He had the Barred Rock trapped in the corner under the nesting boxes when I came in to clean and fill the food and water containers. I moved the New Hampshire off from the Barred Rock and kept him away while waiting for the Barred Rock to get up. The Barred Rock, on the other hand, stayed down until long after the New Hampshire left the coop. When he did get up I saw that he had some blood on the feathers on his head from a small cut/bite on the back of his comb. It had stopped bleeding and he seemed to be OK. I kept working in the coop with other tasks until I could be certain that he was OK and saw that the larger rooster did not want to attack the other as soon as he went out into the pen. By the time I left for work, they all seemed to be getting along OK again. Other than getting out of the way during active fighting, the hens did not seem upset at all. In fact, several of them came over to look at the Barred Rock while he was laying down in the corner.

Note: It is probably an indication of how mellow these roosters are toward people that the rooster on the top of the pecking order did not seem to mind me moving him off the other rooster. Neither rooster showed any aggression toward me.

I will be at my Mom's house tonight so I updated DH and asked him to pay attention to how the roosters were behaving. I will probably need to move another rooster to the Retreat this weekend. I am going to need to decide which one. 

There was another green egg in the coop last night. It was on the floor in the corner.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> I know that my roosters crow all day but most often in the morning and late afternoon. I moved the fifth rooster into the Retreat this morning. The three remaining roosters in the coop are still acting mellow. (EDIT: Yes, I know it is too early to tell.  ) More of the hens are going into the outside pen and they definitely seem much more comfortable.
> 
> I fixed french toast this morning with the five eggs I had in the refrigerator (the four small eggs and one long egg). It turned out that the long egg was a double-yoker! This was just barely enough for four pieces of french toast, two for DH and two for me. Not great for losing weight but yummy!


Double yokers are a sign of good luck!!!


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## Rita

P9300065 by Serendipity1964, on Flickr

P9300067 by Serendipity1964, on Flickr

P9300072 by Serendipity1964, on Flickr

P9300078 by Serendipity1964, on Flickr

P9300073 by Serendipity1964, on Flickr


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## Rita

Annalog,

Thanks for your help on posting pictures! The last picture is of one of our dogs laying by the tree where the guineas were cooling off. You'll probably notice feathers in that picture too. We heard a commotion last night and something caught one of the chickens. Too bad that whatever it was didn't get those guineas!!!


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## Annalog

Thanks for posting the pictures Rita. You have a nice looking flock. Glad I could help with the picture posting.


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## Carol Hanrahan

I have a question.  Today I bought eggs at Costco.  The carton said the hens were fed and all vegetarian diet.  Well, chickens in the backyard eat bugs, don't they?  So what is the benefit of an all vegetarian diet?


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## Annalog

I have been at my mom's house the past couple days so DH has been collecting the eggs and feeding the chickens. A brown egg was laid by a chicken while on the roost. It fell and broke. DH accidentally cracked another egg (green) on the door handle. There were also four small green eggs and a medium brown egg that made it into the refrigerator.

DH had noticed both New Hampshire roosters holding the Barred Rock down a couple different times. When I arrived home today, I saw that they had bitten off the back point of the Barred Rock's comb. I moved the remaining Barred Plymouth Rock rooster to the Retreat. I sat in the Retreat for about half an hour so that I could verify that the roosters were getting along OK. For a while, the timid Barred Rock spent a lot of time hiding behind me while I was sitting on one of the blocks. At one point, he jumped up and was sitting on my head.  It took me a while to get him down. I eventually got him to move to my back and then to jump off.  By the time I left, they were all fairly calm.  

We had french toast for dinner again. The seven eggs had nine yolks (two double yolkers - one green egg and one brown egg) and I was able to make 8 pieces of french toast. We had sliced strawberries instead of syrup. Yummm!!! (The chickens got the strawberry hulls, tops, and bruised spots. They loved that!)


----------



## LindaNelson

This is so cool...I have laying hens too. Ours love to eat bugs as much as they like to eat our left over veggies. They have been so much fun. We don't have any roosters. Just hens. We have 2 Buff Orphingtons, 2 Americanas, and 4 Plymouth Rocks. The Buffs are a year old now and the other 6 are juvies.
It is funny to hear the Buffs during the day. Sometimes they sound like they are giving out lessons on how to lay eggs. Other times their cackles sound like they are telling jokes.
We have not bought eggs over a year now and when we have had eggs at a resturant, you can really taste the difference between fresh home grown eggs and old store bought eggs.
I like the quote found in an article in the magazine 'Backyard Poultry' "An egg a day keeps the butcher away"


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I have a question. Today I bought eggs at Costco. The carton said the hens were fed and all vegetarian diet. Well, chickens in the backyard eat bugs, don't they? So what is the benefit of an all vegetarian diet?


Others may be able to answer this better than I can.

My understanding is that chickens need some animal protein (especially if bugs are considered animals). Chickens will eagerly eat bugs, worms, eggs (cooked and uncooked), cooked poultry, and all sorts of other protein. However some poultry feed is made with animal by-products. Depending on the source and treatment of the animal by-products, this could lead to a potential for diseases to be passed to the chickens through the chicken feed. According to "Minimizing Microbial Contamination in Feed Mills Producing Poultry Feed" by Gary D. Butcher and Richard D. Miles (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm054):


> •Each feed ingredient used in the milling of finished feed has its own unique risk of being contaminated. High risk ingredients should be screened carefully. Generally, animal proteins have higher levels of salmonella contamination than do plant proteins. Poultry offal meal and feather meal should be considered high risk ingredients. These products often contain the same serotypes that are concurrently identified as causing contamination in local poultry populations. Adequate records should be kept on each feed ingredient supplier, including baseline quality control data.


While the feed I buy may be "vegetarian" (the ingredient list is outside and I have not checked it when writing this post), I know my chickens are eating bugs and other non-vegetable protein.


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## Annalog

LindaNelson said:


> This is so cool...I have laying hens too. Ours love to eat bugs as much as they like to eat our left over veggies. They have been so much fun. We don't have any roosters. Just hens. We have 2 Buff Orphingtons, 2 Americanas, and 4 Plymouth Rocks. The Buffs are a year old now and the other 6 are juvies.
> It is funny to hear the Buffs during the day. Sometimes they sound like they are giving out lessons on how to lay eggs. Other times their cackles sound like they are telling jokes.
> We have not bought eggs over a year now and when we have had eggs at a resturant, you can really taste the difference between fresh home grown eggs and old store bought eggs.
> I like the quote found in an article in the magazine 'Backyard Poultry' "An egg a day keeps the butcher away"


Hi Linda, welcome!
I also read that quote in "Backyard Poultry"! I saw your post as I was getting read to quote from the Guest Editorial by Gail Damerow in the October/November 2010 issue:


> A _Backyard Poultry_ reader recently asked me why I use layer ration containing no animal by-products, when I have stated many times that chickens are not vegetarians and therefore require animal protein in their diet. The reason is simply that I don't trust animal protein sources used in any comercial ration. I feed an all-vegetable based ration because my chickens roam pasture and orchard and get plenty of animal protein by eating lots of bugs, worms, and other small protein-laden critters. Chicken keepers whose flocks lack foraging opportunities must either provide animal protein in some form (such as purposely raising worms or grubs) or feed a ration containing animal protein.


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## Annalog

Linda, I am looking forward when more of my hens are laying (or when the eggs get a bit bigger) as I hope to not need to buy any more eggs. The most recent brown egg that made it safely out of the coop was a medium sized egg and had a double yolk.  The shell on the egg was especially smooth and a very light brown which is supposed to be characteristic of eggs laid by New Hampshire chickens.


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## Rita

Did everyone see the pictures of the guineas I posted? They are as ugly as they sound!


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## Annalog

Rita said:


> Did everyone see the pictures of the guineas I posted? They are as ugly as they sound!


They are pretty below the neck.   Guinea heads always make me think of turkeys or vultures.


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## LCEvans

Rita, I saw your guinea pictures. I still think guineas are neat, but, yes, their heads aren't very attractive.

Linda


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## Annalog

Rita said:


> Annalog...Never once have our guineas laid eggs. They all the look the same to me so I don't know whether we have all females or all males.  ...


Rita, according to this page, http://www.guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/guineas/sexing/, the males have a one syllable sound (CHI-CHI-chi-chi-...) and usually has larger wattles than the female who makes a two syllable sound (buck-wheat, buck-wheat). I could not play these particular sound recordings but if all three guineas sound alike and they do not say buck-wheat, then they are probably all males.


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## Annalog

DH is taking care of the chickens until Monday as I am going to Disneyland with our daughter and two granddaughters (9 and 13). DH found a membrane egg (no shell) in the outdoor waterer.


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## Rita

Annalog said:


> Rita, according to this page, http://www.guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/guineas/sexing/, the males have a one syllable sound (CHI-CHI-chi-chi-...) and usually has larger wattles than the female who makes a two syllable sound (buck-wheat, buck-wheat). I could not play these particular sound recordings but if all three guineas sound alike and they do not say buck-wheat, then they are probably all males.


It must be all males that I have then. That one syllable sound is what they make.


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## Annalog

Rita, at least you do not have to worry about one of them showing up with newly hatched keets.


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## Carol Hanrahan

How many eggs a day are you getting now?
I went to our farmer's market yesterday, paid 4.75 for a dozen of the organic free-range eggs.  He had duck eggs too.  1.00 each.  anyone know anything about duck eggs?  Are they any good?  He also had quail eggs - they are so small - how do people use them?


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## Annalog

Carol, we are averaging just over two eggs a day. DH told me on the phone last night that we had 14 eggs in the fridge and that he had stepped on another one. (I have not been home since Wednesday morning due to spending two days at Disneyland with daughter and granddaughters. I will be back home after work today. ) I will definitely be cooking with eggs tonight!


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## Annalog

I came home yesterday to find 4 eggs; today there were 5 eggs. I suspect the average number of eggs is going to stay up for a while. Thursday I will take half a dozen to my mom. Dinner tonight used the 7 oldest eggs. I will probably make custard this weekend.


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## geoffthomas

So glad to see that you are now getting the results of your hard work.

My friends who have chickens are regularly supplying others with excess eggs.

Please keep the "egg-log" going.


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## Annalog

The six eggs (3 green and 3 brown) I am taking to my mom today are the four that were laid yesterday and two from the day before. Since I used seven eggs for dinner again last night, that leaves six eggs at home. (I have been using the oldest eggs first but giving the newest eggs to my mom. ) I still have to take pictures of the membrane egg that DH found last week.

Although we have 6 hens that lay brown eggs (5 New Hampshire and 1 Barred Rock) and 4 that lay green eggs, most days we are finding 2 green eggs and 2 brown eggs. I suspect that all of the Easter Eggers are laying but not all of the other hens are laying yet. 

I have also noticed that the yolks of the brown eggs are much darker (nearly orange) while the yolks of the green eggs are lighter (medium yellow). All of the eggs have firm round yolks and firm whites which is a sign of fresh eggs. I know why my mom would cut into the white when frying eggs; the eggs cook faster when the white is thinner.


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## Annalog

Five eggs (three brown and two green/blue) yesterday and again today. All but one laid in the nesting boxes.  One of the brown eggs is larger than a large store egg. It is probably from one of the hens who started laying first.  One of the eggs today is a pale brown/pink egg. I think that one might be from the Barred Rock hen. I have already told Mom not to buy any more eggs, especially for Thanksgiving. Between pies and breakfast for visiting family, she usually buys six dozen. At this rate, saving eggs would mean that the oldest eggs would be less than 10 days old.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Five eggs (three brown and two green/blue) yesterday and again today. All but one laid in the nesting boxes.  One of the brown eggs is larger than a large store egg. It is probably from one of the hens who started laying first.  One of the eggs today is a pale brown/pink egg. I think that one might be from the Barred Rock hen. I have already told Mom not to buy any more eggs, especially for Thanksgiving. Between pies and breakfast for visiting family, she usually buys six dozen. At this rate, saving eggs would mean that the oldest eggs would be less than 10 days old.


Let me repeat my earlier assertion. I am soooo jealous!!!!

You are the coolest kid on the block!


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Let me repeat my earlier assertion. I am soooo jealous!!!!
> 
> You are the coolest kid on the block!


Thanks Maria! I have never been the "coolest kid" before.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Yes we are all living vicariously through you!  I bet those eggs taste good, too!  Custard, pies, breakfast, yum!  And what is a membrane egg?

A naked egg has had the shell dissolved by covering the egg in vinegar for 24 hrs.  I wonder what that looks like?  Boy the things you learn from Google.........


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Yes we are all living vicariously through you! I bet those eggs taste good, too! Custard, pies, breakfast, yum! And what is a membrane egg?
> 
> A naked egg has had the shell dissolved by covering the egg in vinegar for 24 hrs. I wonder what that looks like? Boy the things you learn from Google.........


Except in this instance the egg was laid by the chicken before the shell was added to the egg. It was not necessary to remove the shell by putting it in vinegar. The egg had a fairly thick, almost leather-like, cover. It was partially opaque but the yolk was still visible inside.


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## Annalog

Only three eggs today - two green and one brown.

I had not realized how easy homemade baked custard was to make! 2 cups milk, 1/3 cup sugar, 1/8 tsp. salt, 2-3 beaten eggs, and 1 tsp. vanilla all mixed together, pour in small bowls and sprinkle nutmeg on top, and bake at 325 F for an hour with bowls on a towel in a pan filled with an inch of hot water. I used 4 eggs as three were small. It turned out perfectly!  (Recipe from old _Joy of Cooking_ cookbook)


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## ak rain

That custard sounds good be sure to look up Flan that is good too and very simalar and uses lots of eggs
sylvia


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Except in this instance the egg was laid by the chicken before the shell was added to the egg. It was not necessary to remove the shell by putting it in vinegar. The egg had a fairly thick, almost leather-like, cover. It was partially opaque but the yolk was still visible inside.


This happened to grammy's eggs sometimes. I remember being *fascinated* by it as a child. (I collected eggs for grammy quite often. LOVED it. The chickens were all free range and often laid eggs in the barn, in the woodpile--it was like an Easter egg hunt all year long!) On the rare occasion I found a membrane egg, I remember holding it VERY carefully to take to mom or grammy. They never seemed as impressed as I was. They can also be colored--the 'leather' membrane was often greenish or brownish. Weirdest looking things I had ever seen as a kid.

No idea what causes it. I'm sure google knows...


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog said:


> I had not realized how easy homemade baked custard was to make! 2 cups milk, 1/3 cup sugar, 1/8 tsp. salt, 2-3 beaten eggs, and 1 tsp. vanilla all mixed together, pour in small bowls and sprinkle nutmeg on top, and bake at 325 F for an hour with bowls on a towel in a pan filled with an inch of hot water. I used 4 eggs as three were small. It turned out perfectly!  (Recipe from old _Joy of Cooking_ cookbook)


Oh Anna, how could you! Oh no wait! My brother is coming to visit on Wed., and I need a dessert recipe! Yay! You saved the day! <remember to get milk at grocery>


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Oh Anna, how could you! Oh no wait! My brother is coming to visit on Wed., and I need a dessert recipe! Yay! You saved the day! <remember to get milk at grocery>


According to my mom, who does not like nutmeg, cinnamon is even better when sprinkled on top. Neither of us mix the spice in the custard.  Found the following online:

This recipe is from _Joy of Cooking_, 1964 edition. If you want to unmold the custard, use the larger quantity of eggs. The greater the proportion of yolk, the more tender the custard will be. You may even use 2 egg whites to 1 yolk for a quite stiff custard.

~~~​
*Baked or Cup Custard*​
2 cups pasteurized milk
¼ to ½ cup sugar or 1/3 cup honey
1/8 teaspoon salt 2 to 3 beaten whole eggs or 4 egg yolks
½ to 1 teaspoon vanilla
1/8 teaspoon nutmeg, optional 
Blend milk, sugar and salt. Add in and beat well eggs, vanilla and nutmeg.

When this is all well-beaten, pour it into a baker or into 5 individual custard cups. Place the molds in a pan of water in 300 F oven for 1 hour or more.

Chill and serve

Makes 5 servings.

Edit to add link with recipe above, one for Cremé Brulee, and a Baked Custard that is cooked in the microwave. 
Baked Custard - it's easy


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> This happened to grammy's eggs sometimes. I remember being *fascinated* by it as a child. (I collected eggs for grammy quite often. LOVED it. The chickens were all free range and often laid eggs in the barn, in the woodpile--it was like an Easter egg hunt all year long!) On the rare occasion I found a membrane egg, I remember holding it VERY carefully to take to mom or grammy. They never seemed as impressed as I was. They can also be colored--the 'leather' membrane was often greenish or brownish. Weirdest looking things I had ever seen as a kid.
> 
> No idea what causes it. I'm sure google knows...


I remember reading that it is most likely when the internal egg process is either starting up or ending so membrane eggs should be most common with young hens, old hens, and also just before or after moulting.


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## Annalog

Major Thump: Went out to close the coop door this evening and found the top rooster dead in the dust bath area with no sign of cause of death. He was only 5 months old and looked fit and healthy this morning. The other rooster in the coop looks fine but a bit upset. There was not a fight as there was no blood, cuts, bruises, or pulled feathers. The hens all look OK. Learned from search on the Internet that sudden chicken death occurs from various causes. I can only hope it was due to something such as a heart defect and was not due to something contagious.

Bump for the day: The hens laid 7 eggs (3 green and 4 brown). Six were laid in the nesting boxes and only one was laid on the floor.


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## Annalog

The sun had set as I was driving home yesterday so DH and I had to check the rooster and the pen using flashlights yesterday. As soon as the sun comes up, I am checking the pen area again for anything unusual. Then I am going to clear everything out, turn the ground with a shovel, and rake it before I let the chickens out. I will  be looking for snake holes, scorpions, and centipedes. I am not going to do a necropsy this time but may do one if another chicken dies suddenly in the near future.


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## Annalog

I raked out everything loose in the pen, and turned over the ground in the two dusting areas and the food/water area. I did not find anything unusual.

I raked the dusting area level where I found the rooster. I then laid pavers over that space so that now the two feet closest to the coop is completely paved. I then let the chickens out. They inspected the changes and acted normally. The remaining rooster seems to have realized he is now the top rooster and is trying to crow. His crow sounds very strange. Hopefully he will learn to crow soon.

While I was working in the pen, I heard the cackle of a chicken who has laid an egg. A little while later I hear some strange noises but that stopped before I could check on the chickens. I went into the coop after I let the chickens into the pen. I saw what looked like a piece of brown paper on the floor by the back wall. It was the remains of another membrane egg. Apparently it was laid this morning and then broken and eaten. 

I fluffed up and raked all of the litter and added new wood shavings on top. I did not find any more egg remains or anything else unusual.


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## Carol Hanrahan

I hope no other chickens meet with an untimely demise!  Would a scorpion be able to kill a chicken?  I wonder if the rooster would be curious about a scorpion and get too close?


----------



## Annalog

I do not know if a scorpion or centipede could kill a chicken but I do know that they burrow under soil and rocks.If one was in the dirt in the dust bath area then it would be disturbed by a dust bathing chicken and sting it. However, I did not see either of those this morning.


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## Annalog

In addition to the membrane egg, the hens laid 4 brown eggs and three green eggs so eight out of ten hens laid an egg today. 

I worked from home today so that I could keep checking on the chickens. They are all fine. At lunch I gave them some apple cut into small pieces (no apple seeds) and the heels from a loaf of 9 grain bread. The remaining rooster picked up a piece of apple, made a calling noise, and then gave the apple piece to a hen. He did that three or four more times. He did not eat any apple until all of the hens were eating apple. I do not remember the other rooster doing that. However I remember Little Twerp, a rooster from when I was a kid, doing that with treats and his hens.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, I made the custard and it was a great success!  I served it chilled with fresh blueberries!
Be sure to get the recipe to Shizu for the cookbook collection!  Thanks!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, I made the custard and it was a great success! I served it chilled with fresh blueberries!
> Be sure to get the recipe to Shizu for the cookbook collection! Thanks!


Carol, I am glad the custard worked well for you! I am going to have to get some fresh berries!

I checked this thread after putting my second batch of custard in the oven.  I am experimenting with this batch. I wanted to use 5 eggs so I filled my 2 cup Pyrex measuring cup to the top (maybe 2.5 cups) with milk, I used 1/2 cup and a bit more of sugar, I guessed at the salt, and put in 1 1/2 tsp. of vanilla. This worked out the the maximum my small mixer bowl will hold. I sprinkled a bit more nutmeg on top than I did the first time. I bought a set of Pyrex baking/storage cups. It was more than the 4 cups would hold so I also filled a small Corell bowl. (I need to get another set of the Pyrex bowls as I think this would fill 6 of them.) I will send the recipe to Shizu after I see how the experiment turns out.

Seven eggs yesterday and six today. The shells of the eggs are getting a little thicker and much stronger. Most of the brown eggs are medium to large in size. The green eggs are smaller. All the chickens are still OK.  After giving a dozen eggs to my mom and making custard tonight, I still have 14 eggs left and only one egg is more than 2 days old.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> I do not know if a scorpion or centipede could kill a chicken but I do know that they burrow under soil and rocks.If one was in the dirt in the dust bath area then it would be disturbed by a dust bathing chicken and sting it. However, I did not see either of those this morning.


I am pretty sure that chickens eat centipedes and scorpions without any real trouble. You are in Az so you have the more deadly kinds of scorpions, but I've no idea if a sting would bother a chicken!


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## MariaESchneider

T.L. Haddix said:


> Okay, I avoided this thread because I love chickens. Had my first real-life chicken encounter in 2003 when we lived in a different area temporarily, and one of our neighbors had a boat load of chickens which they let just run wherever. They are such cool creatures, and ever since then, I've wanted a chicken or ten. Anyhow, I kept seeing this thread and kept avoiding it because I knew I would end up with chicken envy. I finally bit the bullet tonight, and I am fascinated. The rooster sharing his treat with the hens - that is the cutest thing! I'll definitely be checking back, and I know now that I don't want chickens - too much work (and yes, I'm honest enough to admit I'm too lazy). I'll just admire your chickens via KB. Thanks for posting all this!


We all suffer from chicken envy here...well really, I only want the eggs.


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## Annalog

T.L., I am glad you enjoyed reading this thread and I am even gladder that my neighbors are not like the ones you lived near for a while with the chickens and pit bulls!

Today I put some small zucchinis that were past their prime in the outside pen. I had not cut them up and the chickens did not know what to do with them. They stayed far away as if the vegetables might be dangerous. So I broke the zucchinis into chunks. The rooster came over and pecked a couple pieces to see what they were. He must have decided that they were safe as he called the hens over. This evening I gave them some more apples and they all came running. The rooster again made his "come and get some treats" call to the hens. 

Keeping a few hens does not need to be this much work. I am a bit compulsive, paranoid, and a perfectionist as my family will attest. (If they read this I am sure they would say "More than a bit!"  ) 3 or 4 hens should be easy. However I started with 25 chicks, 15 of which turned out to be roosters. Not as easy. 

I took 6 eggs to my neighbors on the side closest to the chickens. I had wanted to verify that they were still happy with us keeping roosters. They said they only hear the crowing when they are outside and that they are happy that we have both hens and roosters. (I should probably 'bribe' the neighbors on the other side and across the street as well.  )


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> I am pretty sure that chickens eat centipedes and scorpions without any real trouble. You are in Az so you have the more deadly kinds of scorpions, but I've no idea if a sting would bother a chicken!


I am also sure that a chicken would eat a centipede or scorpion without much trouble if it saw it. I now believe that the rooster died due to some internal defect. All of the other chickens seem very healthy.


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## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> I do not know if a scorpion or centipede could kill a chicken but I do know that they burrow under soil and rocks.If one was in the dirt in the dust bath area then it would be disturbed by a dust bathing chicken and sting it. However, I did not see either of those this morning.


Sorry to hear about your rooster. 

There is no way a centipede could harm a chicken, their sting is just not potent enough, but a scorpion, depending on the species, may be able to do harm. I've had this happen in my flock before (rooster dies for no reason) and attributed it to too much calcium. I think we've talked about this before, but the layer formulas can actually be harmful to roosters. I know you're aware of that and mention it only because that's what I've always attributed my roosters' death to. If you figure something else out I'd be very anxious to hear it.

Hope all is well!

J.M.


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## LCEvans

I'm sorry to hear about your rooster, too. Poor guy. Once one of our chicken fell between the wall and a double rack of nests and we didn't know. We were in the coop regularly picking up eggs, so if she had struggled or made noise we could have saved her. We didn't find her until she was very dead and I cried so much. It's sad to lose an animal.


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## Annalog

Thanks J.M. and LC. LC, I am sorry about your hen, even if it was a while ago.

J.M., thanks for letting me know that I do not need to worry about the centipedes. I will think about the calcium and see what I can do to keep the rooster that is in with the hens from getting too much.


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## Annalog

Still getting 5-7 eggs a day (2 or 3 green/blue and 3 or 4 brown).

This morning I let the chickens out into the pen and all seemed OK. I went into the coop to clean/fill water and food containers. There were small spots of blood on the food container, the two walls above the perches, and various other places. It looked as if a bleeding chicken had flown back and forth across the coop. After finishing in the coop, I went back into the pen with some extra scratch. I sat on a block and put the scratch around me so that I could inspect the chickens. I noticed that Rosemary, the only Barred Rock hen, had a large scab on her comb and dried blood on the feathers of her left wing but she seemed to be moving normally. All of the other hens looked OK. Rosemary finally let me pick her up, pet her, and check the skin under her feathers. I could not find any injuries except for the one on her comb. I think the blood on her wing feathers was from her head resting there while she was sleeping. Either the rooster was a bit rough or there was a "pecking order" scuffle a bit rougher than usual. Rosemary is smaller than the New Hampshire hens and about the same size as the Easter Eggers. I suspect that Rosemary is near the bottom of the pecking order.

Since Rosemary does not act afraid of any of the other chickens and all of the chickens were calm this morning, I am leaving everything as it is for now. However I plan to do a good "fall cleaning" of the coop this weekend or next (depending on the weather) so that any recurrence will be easily noticeable. (One of the advantages of white walls is that everything shows up.)


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## Annalog

Saturday the hens laid 9 eggs: 4 green, 4 brown and 1 membrane egg. I got some feed without calcium that should be good for the roosters.

Yesterday I took six eggs to the neighbors on the other side. They let me know that they also like the crowing roosters. I am very lucky to have neighbors who like the sound of roosters crowing!

Today there were again 9 eggs, 4 green and 5 brown. I fixed french toast again for dinner using so little milk that I used 6 eggs for 7 pieces of bread. Between the homemade custard and french toast, I am going to need to be careful to not gain any weight.


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## MariaESchneider

Hmph.  I bought eggs at the store yesterday...hmph.


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Hmph. I bought eggs at the store yesterday...hmph.


Maria, I thought of you this morning as I was taking a back road to work from my polling place. A sign was posted by the road: "Eggs are back! $3 a dozen." I hope you can find some good fresh eggs nearby at a reasonable price.


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## Annalog

Bump for today: 10 eggs from 10 hens! Every hen laid a beautiful egg today.   

I fixed a scramble of hash browns, onions, sausage, and scrambled eggs for dinner tonight. We will have custard for dessert.


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## geoffthomas

Kewl Anna.
You are getting "pay back" for all your hard work.

You have brightened our days with this terrific "blog".

Just sayin....


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## Annalog

Thanks Geoff. 

Yesterday they again laid 10 eggs.    I am taking "half dozen" cartons each to my mom, sister, and in-laws today. It has been over a week since I have found any eggs on the floor. All the hens are now laying their eggs in the nests.

Since I am staying at my mom's tonight, DH will be collecting the eggs and taking care of the chickens tonight and tomorrow morning. I made sure he knew where I kept the egg cartons as it is now easier to carry an empty carton out to the coop instead of carrying a few eggs by hand to the house.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Maria, I thought of you this morning as I was taking a back road to work from my polling place. A sign was posted by the road: "Eggs are back! $3 a dozen." I hope you can find some good fresh eggs nearby at a reasonable price.


Ah well, at least I have some. The right egg will come along...



Have a save visit with your mom.


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## Annalog

Some of the hens are taking a break as they laid six eggs yesterday and six the day before. So far today they have laid six eggs and a couple hens are sitting in the nests.

This morning I found a rodent hole had been dug up into the center of the chicken pen into the bottom of their dust bath area. That changed my plans for the day. So far, DH and I have dug 2/3 of the pen almost 1 foot deep, put down 1/2 inch hardware cloth (wire mesh), and filled back in. We are taking a break before we finish.

The chickens panicked when DH came into the pen carrying a shovel so we closed them into the coop. When DH went inside, I opened the coop door and a couple hens came out. The rooster was not happy about that and tried to block the door to keep the rest of the hens from going into possibly dangerous territory. One hen pushed past him anyway and he was obviously upset but did not move from the doorway. When DH came back into the pen, the hens went inside again. This was repeated the next time DH went inside. However by that time we had filled the first third again. One of the hens found some grain in the dirt. The rooster saw that, jumped into the pen, and started calling the hens as if he had found the grain just for them.


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## Annalog

I came back to the pen and the chickens were taking dust baths and scratching in the dirt. DH took a nap while I worked outside in the pen awhile. The chickens were calmer as I dig and move slower so that I can work longer.  One of the chickens found a grub and then more chickens were finding grubs and other insects in the soil. They were very excited and happy to be finding yummy bugs to eat.  I finally woke DH and we finished the work in the pen before the sun set. When I went into the coop to change the water and put out their evening mash, I found four more eggs. That makes 10 eggs today!


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Some of the hens are taking a break as they laid six eggs yesterday and six the day before. So far today they have laid six eggs and a couple hens are sitting in the nests.


6 eggs! Those slackers...


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> 6 eggs! Those slackers...


LOL

In the first week of November (1-7), the ten hens laid 58 eggs so that means an average of 5.8 eggs per chicken for the week. (10 hens sure makes the math easy!  )

Over the course of yesterday, the chickens went from being afraid of the shovels to having no fear of them unless we accidentally dropped a clod of dirt. Occassionally a hen would not move when I was scooping a pile of dirt and was carried a short distance on top of the dirt on the shovel.  The rooster liked perching on the top of the mound of dirt and crowing. This morning the ground in the pen was mostly level but I expect to find a couple dust bath holes when I come home tonight.


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## Annalog

I read somewhere that hens stand up to lay their eggs. This seemed strange since most of the time when the hens are in the nest, they seem to be sitting down. Today when I went into the coop, two hens were sitting in the nest on one side and another hen was standing on the other side. I looked and saw no eggs. I looked again and the standing hen laid an egg.  She stayed standing for a short while and then left the nest. I waited for the egg to dry and then took it into the house.  I am glad I have wire mesh for the back of the nests instead of wood.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> I read somewhere that hens stand up to lay their eggs. This seemed strange since most of the time when the hens are in the nest, they seem to be sitting down. Today when I went into the coop, two hens were sitting in the nest on one side and another hen was standing on the other side. I looked and saw no eggs. I looked again and the standing hen laid an egg.  She stayed standing for a short while and then left the nest. I waited for the egg to dry and then took it into the house. I am glad I have wire mesh for the back of the nests instead of wood.


BUT, did you check back under the sitting hens to see if they laid eggs too?  Maaaybe they do both!!


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> BUT, did you check back under the sitting hens to see if they laid eggs too?  Maaaybe they do both!!


No, I have not reached under any sitting hens for eggs.  Since all 10 hens share the same two nests, I usually find a group of eggs on each side. Therefore, I would not know for certain when I reach under a sitting hen and find an egg if she had laid it or not. (Of course if it was one of the four wooden eggs that stay in the nests I would know that she had NOT laid it. ) However, since the hens usually sit in the nests facing out and with their rear end facing the wire mesh backs of the nests, I would still be able to see an egg being laid if the hen is sitting down. So far I have only seen one egg laid. (They are better at waiting than I am.  ) I have seen hens get up after sitting in the nest and no egg is in the nest.


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## Carol Hanrahan

I bet some of those hens are just shy......
You need an egg collecting basket!  My aunt has one that is filled with straw and is so cute!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I bet some of those hens are just shy......
> You need an egg collecting basket! My aunt has one that is filled with straw and is so cute!


I was thinking of making one but so far I just carry an old egg carton out to the coop.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> No, I have not reached under any sitting hens for eggs.  Since all 10 hens share the same two nests, I usually find a group of eggs on each side. Therefore, I would not know for certain when I reach under a sitting hen and find an egg if she had laid it or not. (Of course if it was one of the four wooden eggs that stay in the nests I would know that she had NOT laid it. ) However, since the hens usually sit in the nests facing out and with their rear end facing the wire mesh backs of the nests, I would still be able to see an egg being laid if the hen is sitting down. So far I have only seen one egg laid. (They are better at waiting than I am.  ) I have seen hens get up after sitting in the nest and no egg is in the nest.


And never reach blind into a henhouse. My neighbor (back home where my parents live) was out very early one morning, collecting eggs from the henhouse. She had a row of those little boxes inside the pen--reach in, check for eggs, put in basket, next little house. Reach in, very soft fur...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Sprayed in the face by a skunk. I kid you not. It had gotten through the chicken wire that night and was still dining on eggs.

Poor thing. Luckily her head was turned sideways so she didn't get sprayed in the eyes. But. For weeks...and I do mean weeks...She did tell us that tomato products gets rid of the burn/sting. But not the smell.


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> And never reach blind into a henhouse. My neighbor (back home where my parents live) was out very early one morning, collecting eggs from the henhouse. She had a row of those little boxes inside the pen--reach in, check for eggs, put in basket, next little house. Reach in, very soft fur...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Sprayed in the face by a skunk. I kid you not. It had gotten through the chicken wire that night and was still dining on eggs.
> 
> Poor thing. Luckily her head was turned sideways so she didn't get sprayed in the eyes. But. For weeks...and I do mean weeks...She did tell us that tomato products gets rid of the burn/sting. But not the smell.


Oh dear, poor thing. I am glad she is OK and did not get sprayed in the eyes.

This story makes me very glad that I wear a headlamp when it is dark to watch for snakes. We also have skunks in the area but I only saw a live one once.

This morning I had to break the ice covering the outside water dishes. I will probably need to make some changes in the morning routine. My current chicken-tending outfit consists of jeans and a short-sleeved shirt. I might have to add a long-sleeved shirt as well.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Oh dear, poor thing. I am glad she is OK and did not get sprayed in the eyes.
> 
> This story makes me very glad that I wear a headlamp when it is dark to watch for snakes. We also have skunks in the area but I only saw a live one once.
> 
> This morning I had to break the ice covering the outside water dishes. I will probably need to make some changes in the morning routine. My current chicken-tending outfit consists of jeans and a short-sleeved shirt. I might have to add a long-sleeved shirt as well.


If you do see a skunk (and eventually you will because they will eat chicks and eggs) just remember: He/She/It has the right of way!!!! That back end means business!!!!

Friend was fine. The hospital where she worked even made her take the first week off. It's cruel of me, but I love telling the story because I have such vivid memories of it.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Maria, I vote you win the prize for "Story of the Day" with that one!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Maria, I vote you win the prize for "Story of the Day" with that one!


I agree!



MariaESchneider said:


> If you do see a skunk (and eventually you will because they will eat chicks and eggs) just remember: He/She/It has the right of way!!!! That back end means business!!!!
> ...


I plan to yield the right of way to skunks, rattlesnakes, mountain lions, gila monsters, and tarantulas for various reasons. Each has an end that means business. The skunks have an effective aerosol delivery system while the others make their points in different manners.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> I agree!
> I plan to yield the right of way to skunks, rattlesnakes, mountain lions, gila monsters, and tarantulas for various reasons. Each has an end that means business. The skunks have an effective aerosol delivery system while the others make their points in different manners.


Thanks Carol.  

The gila monsters aren't *quite* as bad, although they can be rather aggressive if disturbed (or in a bad mood.) The trouble with them is they blend and tend not to move until you're close.

Mountain Lions. Yeah, well, let's just hope yielding the right of way is *enough* cooperation for Mr. or Mrs. Mountain Lion.

Tarantulas don't bother me. Very non-aggressive and mild unless you provoke them. Slow moving unless after food. Just don't go around trying to pet them and I think you're safe. 

Rattlesnakes...at least they have a warning sound--although my younger brother mistook one for a "tire losing air" once. Good thing he didn't lean over too close to check. Mom thought one was cicadas once--and *that* snake was the largest we ever saw. Turned out there was a den nearby and my word. That thing was HUGE. I never need to see any snake that large.

One of these days I am going to post a salad dressing recipe for you (uses 3 eggs!) Do you like ceasar dressing?


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## Annalog

Maria, tarantulas do not bother me but I still yield the right of way to them. During the first 10 years in our current home we would regularly see a tarantula on our property. We did not want it to move away. Unfortunately we found it dead a couple years ago..


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## Annalog

Question below:

Thursday or Friday one of the New Hampshire hens became broody. I was fairly certain Saturday. I worked in the coop refreshing the litter and completely changing the litter in the nesting boxes in the hopes that she was not broody or that the disturbance would cause her to change her mind. After all, it is mid-November! Sunday morning I saw that she had spent the night in the nest. Definitely broody. I took the wooden eggs out of the nests; after all, the hens are now regularly laying in the nests and do not need reminders. This morning she is still sitting in the nest. I tried to shift her to a floor level location but that only resulted in undo attention from the rooster and the other hens. She is back sitting in an empty nest.

I have some wire cages, I think they were for rabbits. I could clean one up and put it in the coop under the nesting boxes. Then she could nest there with her own food and water. She could see the other chickens but not be disturbed by them. I would give her some eggs to sit on. If they hatch, it would be in December. (I know that most of the eggs being laid are fertile.) I do want a broody hen or two in the spring. This would let me know if she is a good mom or at least give her practice. Since this is semi-high desert in southern Arizona it will get down to 10 F a few nights during the winter and the day time temperatures will vary widely from cold to warm. 

I could let her continue to sit in the current nest. She would continue to pull eggs in from the other chickens but I would be collecting them when I get home from work. She would either get fed up or sit for three weeks and have no chicks to show for it. I do not know if this would stop her from being broody again or being a clueless mom when she is.

Any recommendations which I should do or additional suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Anna


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Question below:
> 
> Thursday or Friday one of the New Hampshire hens became broody. I was fairly certain Saturday. I worked in the coop refreshing the litter and completely changing the litter in the nesting boxes in the hopes that she was not broody or that the disturbance would cause her to change her mind. After all, it is mid-November! Sunday morning I saw that she had spent the night in the nest. Definitely broody. I took the wooden eggs out of the nests; after all, the hens are now regularly laying in the nests and do not need reminders. This morning she is still sitting in the nest. I tried to shift her to a floor level location but that only resulted in undo attention from the rooster and the other hens. She is back sitting in an empty nest.
> 
> I have some wire cages, I think they were for rabbits. I could clean one up and put it in the coop under the nesting boxes. Then she could nest there with her own food and water. She could see the other chickens but not be disturbed by them. I would give her some eggs to sit on. If they hatch, it would be in December. (I know that most of the eggs being laid are fertile.) I do want a broody hen or two in the spring. This would let me know if she is a good mom or at least give her practice. Since this is semi-high desert in southern Arizona it will get down to 10 F a few nights during the winter and the day time temperatures will vary widely from cold to warm.
> 
> I could let her continue to sit in the current nest. She would continue to pull eggs in from the other chickens but I would be collecting them when I get home from work. She would either get fed up or sit for three weeks and have no chicks to show for it. I do not know if this would stop her from being broody again or being a clueless mom when she is.
> 
> Any recommendations which I should do or additional suggestions?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Anna


Way outside my realm of expertise. I do know a lady who raised many a chick--and had to have a little setup in side with a heat lamp (in fact I recall her telling someone else to have such a thing ready to go because sometimes something would happen to the mom chicken or the chicks would get wet or it would snow...)

I can ask her if you want. She's on a completely different board...


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## Annalog

Maria, I am not too concerned about the chicks since I have all the equipment (heat lamps, chick feeders, etc.) from raising these chickens from three-day old chicks. I know that if the mom chicken cannot care for them that I can. 

I am mostly wondering if it will make a difference to the future broodiness of this hen if I do not let her sit on eggs but let her stay in the nest. While she grumbles at me when I reach under her to take the eggs away, she does not peck at me or get extremely upset. She just give me a disgusted look and settles farther down into the nest.

Unless I hear that it is not a good idea, I will probably just let her be broody but keep taking the eggs away each day. 

While it would be great if all the hens were laying full time through the end of the Thanksgiving (USA) weekend, one broody hen out of ten just means 9 dozen eggs instead of 10 over the next two weeks. (Pumpkin pie, Butterscotch brownies, breakfasts for visiting relatives, etc. has required 8 dozen eggs in years past. )


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## Carol Hanrahan

I think it would be fun to see if she would hatch a little brood!  I say go for it!  She could be the Queen Hen!  And we would all love to hear her progress!

Anna, I think I would have gained about 50 lbs. eating all the yummy things you can make with those eggs!


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## Annalog

Carol, I will check when I get home to verify that one of the cages will fit easily in the coop under the nesting boxes. If so, I might try letting her hatch some eggs.

However, I cannot let her hatch eggs where she is because I have seen the hens move eggs from one side of the nest to another because I did not get the dividers in so it is two connected communal nests. I once left three white wooden eggs in the west nest and one wooden egg on the far side of the east nest. The next time I was in the coop, all four eggs, along with five freshly laid eggs, were in the west nest. Four other eggs were in the east nest. Therefore it would be impossible to guarantee that the same eggs are always in the nest.

ETA: There is a short divider between the east and west nests. In order to move an egg from one nest to the other, the chicken would need to move the egg to the front walkway then move the egg across and back into the other nest.


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## Carol Hanrahan

How funny - I never thought of hens moving eggs!  I wonder what goes through their heads while they are moving them?  Silly hens!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> How funny - I never thought of hens moving eggs! I wonder what goes through their heads while they are moving them? Silly hens!


A broody hen needs to rearrange her eggs periodically during the day so that the developing chick does not stick to the shell. If I remember correctly, it is necessary to "turn" the eggs in an automatic incubator at least once a day if it does not do that automatically. (I remember reading that the eggs are tilted from one side to the other but not actually turned over.) I also remember reading that the hen should rearrange the eggs so that the ones on the edges get moved to warmer spots and vice versa.

It is possible that when a hen sees another egg that she might think it had rolled away and needs to be brought back to the nest. However I also read that someone watched one of her broody hens reach under a nearby broody hen and steal an egg from under the other hen. In that instance, maybe she thought the other broody hen had "stolen" her egg. 

I cleaned up one of the cages and set it up under the nesting boxes. I cut one of the empty paper feed bags in half lengthwise to cover the wire at the bottom of the cage before adding wood shavings. Several other hens came over to investigate and one of the Easter Eggers acted as if she wanted to sit on the wooden eggs. I lured them outside with scratch and put the broody hen in the cage. I temporarily closed the cage door while I fed and watered the roosters. I came back and all the chickens were back in the coop, the hen was upset, and the rooster was complaining. I decided to open the cage door and let her out instead of setting up water and food for inside the cage. (If I could have worked from home today I probably would have decided differently.) I fastened the door so that it would stay open. I will see what I find when I get home.



Carol Hanrahan said:


> ... Anna, I think I would have gained about 50 lbs. eating all the yummy things you can make with those eggs!


So far I have not gained any weight from the eggs. (That is good as I need to lose about 70 lbs. instead! ) I suspect that the reason I have not gained is that the things I am fixing from the eggs (with the exception of the butterscotch brownies) are lower in calories than what the dishes are replacing. For example, a 3/4 cup serving of egg custard cooked in its own dish is less fattening than an unmeasured bowl of ice cream. A homemade breakfast burrito with Tillamook cheese, onions, sausage, salsa, and eggs on a whole wheat tortilla is better for me, has fewer calories, and is more filling than two or three Breakfast Burritos from McD. What saved me from the butterscotch brownies was taking half to my work and sending the other half with DH so I could only eat a couple pieces.


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## Carol Hanrahan

You are smart to give some of the goodies away!  I do that too, when DD's friends come over - they are always glad to oblige!  Teenagers are always hungry!  Even the tiny ones - sometimes I think they eat the most!  
Well, I'm off to visit my Dad for a couple of weeks, and again, no internet.  So I will be interested to see what transpires while I'm gone!  Have a Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> You are smart to give some of the goodies away! I do that too, when DD's friends come over - they are always glad to oblige! Teenagers are always hungry! Even the tiny ones - sometimes I think they eat the most!
> Well, I'm off to visit my Dad for a couple of weeks, and again, no internet. So I will be interested to see what transpires while I'm gone! Have a Happy Thanksgiving!


Happy Thanksgiving to you also!

I only made the Butterscotch Brownies as both where I work and where DH works were having pot lucks. I will make two batches again for Thanksgiving with one batch each going to my family and my in-laws. I once entered the recipe in a diet site that calculated calories for a recipe. I determined that these have 100 calories per cubic inch; they are evil!


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## Annalog

Today I marked four of the brown eggs with an X and date (11-16 because I forgot the date) and left them under the broody hen.  I told DH so that when he collects eggs tomorrow so that he knows to leave the marked ones under the hen. We will see if she stays broody for another 3 weeks. Since I could not convince her to move, I will have to make sure I have a place ready for her and the chicks (if any) before hatching day.


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## Annalog

My "nesting boxes" are not really boxes. Instead it is a long and mostly open raised area with a cover. It is as if it is two double boxes with a low divider in between. There is a ladder up to the nesting boxes but most of the hens walk along the roost and jump in to the nesting area. If "x' identifies a wire wall, "|" identifies an opaque wall, ":" identifies a floor ridge with vertical supports, "____"identifies a walkway, "." identifies a roost, and "abcd" identifies spaces where a hen could nest comfortably, then the nesting box area could be drawn as:
xxxxxxx
|ab:cd|
|_____|
.
.
The broody hen was nesting in space d. When DH collected the eggs on the 18th, he did not notice that one of the marked eggs had been moved to space a. He just checked that four brown eggs were under the broody hen. I noticed this on the 19th and marked another egg. I do not know if it was laid on the 18th or 19th as the laying hens continue to lay in all the spaces. Most of the time, the area is treated as two nests, "ab" and "cd".

Yesterday the broody hen had moved all her eggs to space c. Also, a couple hens have started laying on the floor again. Today it appears that a second hen, the Easter Egger Ginger, appears to be broody. She took over space d with all of the eggs that the first broody hen was sitting on. The first broody hen has moved to space b and is sitting on new eggs. A few things are clear: My broody hens do not seem to care which eggs they are sitting on as long as they can sit on eggs. The hens move the eggs around, even across or around the ":" low divider.

Since I am saving up eggs for my mother and mother-in-law to use for Thanksgiving, I am putting the "questionable" eggs in a specially marked carton for DH and I to use. This carton got the collected marked egg that had been in the nest for two days under the broody hen. It also gets the eggs found on the floor and those that are a bit dirty (usually faint blood streaks or tiny bits of poop). While the germinal spot is usually about the size of a pinhead, the marked egg had a spot about 4 or 5 times bigger.

From http://www.kidwings.com/eggs/eggdevelopment/germinal.htm:
*Germinal Spot*

The germinal spot has many other names: germ cell, blastodisc, and vesicle. The germinal spot is a small white dot on the egg yolk. It is connected to a white tube (called the "nucleus of Pander) that goes to the center of the yolk (called the Latebra). The germinal spot is what will develop into the embryo and finally into the chick. As it begins to develop, it must stay on top of the egg yolk. The chalaza helps the yolk spin which keeps the germinal spot on top of the yolk.

The blastodisc divides to form three different layers: the ectoderm, the mesoderm, and the endoderm. Each layer changes into a certain part of the bird. The ectoderm forms the skin and nervous system. The mesoderm forms the muscles, heart, skeleton, and kidneys. The endoderm forms the stomach, liver, and lungs.


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## Annalog

I "harvested" the two largest roosters from the rooster retreat today. I had planned on three but I could not catch the third one. Next time I will need to start 2 hours before sunrise instead of just one if I want to catch the roosters sleeping on the roosts.  The one I could not catch has always been the most skittish of all of the roosters. He flies very well for such a large chicken. Since we are currently in a week of warmer weather, the remaining roosters should be OK.

I used my new propane cooker (similar to a turkey fryer) for heating the scald water this time. I followed the instructions from The Deliberate Agrarian: How To Properly Scald A Chicken (My Never-Fail Technique). What a difference that made! The first chicken was easier to pluck than the previous ones and the second one was perfect! I vacuum-packed each bird whole (nearly ) in a FoodSaver bag so they will be ready for roasting. I packed the necks separately. The necks were nearly .5 lbs while the birds were 4.25 .bs and 4.75 lbs. I will need to get out the instructions for my tabletop rotisserie but I think it will handle up to a 5 pound bird. 

The internal organs looked healthy but there was more fat than I expected. I suspect that the roosters are not getting as much exercise as they are not fighting over the hens or chasing the hens. No more scratch with corn for the roosters.


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## Annalog

While I had hoped for 7 or 8 dozen eggs to split between my family and DH's for the Thanksgiving weekend, I have more than 4 dozen now and may have another dozen or two by Thursday and another dozen and a half by Saturday.  I will bring what I have into town tomorrow so that the eggs will be available in advance. (ETA I will keep the oldest dozen for baking.) The eggs I keep will be used on Wednesday to make two batches of Butterscotch Brownies, one for my family and one for the in-laws.

Ginger decided not to keep sitting on eggs so the broody hen is back in her previous location.


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## mcostas

I just discovered this thread! I hadn't gone through all 70 something pages yet, but I thought I would post a pic of my chickens! I started out with 5 dark brahma chicks and wound up with 3 roosters and one hen (one died as a chick).

I put the word out that I needed more hens, so a coworker gave me 3 bantems, 2 roosters and one hen! I actually found someone that needed banty roosters for his little hens, so that was a happy ending.

I'm going to have to "do something" with my roosters when they stop being cute and all, but for now everyone seems happy. The little banty hen gets picked on some, nothing serious so far. Dark brahmas are supposted to be a docile bird, I guess it's true.

I started out with a chicken tractor but soon made a pen out of a 10x10 kennel. It has wire over the top and hardware cloth around the bottom, so nothing can get in. This spring I'm getting sexed biddies, maybe next fall I can get some eggs.



















THey are like pet bedroom slippers. They have eaten all the bugs in the yard and help compost leaves. My doggies and chickens get along as well.


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## Annalog

Mcostas, what a wonderful place you have for your chickens! Thanks for posting the photos.

How old are your chickens? They certainly look mellow and unafraid of your dogs. All of them look so peaceful and happy. It makes me smile to look at the pictures! 

It is possible that one or both hens are laying eggs but hiding them. (I found online that Brahma chickens mature slowly. The hens start laying at 5 or 6 months; the bantam hen would probably start laying earlier.) When we had chickens when I was young, we would have to hunt every day to find where the chickens laid their eggs. Even after my father put nests in their coop, a few of the hens continued to hide their eggs under bushes or behind plants. If you have a nest in the coop then put a couple golf balls or wooden eggs in the nest. You may find that your two hens may start laying their eggs in the nest. (It is supposed to be that when the hens see a group of eggs that tells them it is a safe place to lay their eggs.)


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## mcostas

I dont' think they are laying yet, they only get to free range when we are home. There are days they don't get out at all. I think they were hatched around july. I hope the roosters don't mature till I can get more biddies but I know that's not going to happen. 

It's wierd, one of the little banty roosters tried to crow in the short time I had him, but the big fellas have not even tried yet. 

I have lots of stuff in their pen that they like, like logs to hop on, leaves to scratch, places to roost, they don't seem to mind staying in every now and then. I am allowed 5 hens but I may only keep 4 when all is said and one, due to their large size. 

I am going to make another coop before that happens though, the one they are using now should be fine till I get more birds, since I will soon be down to 2 hens. 

I wish I lived where I could have a larger flock and a rooster, I'll bet these guys would be so pretty!


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## Annalog

mcostas said:


> I dont' think they are laying yet, they only get to free range when we are home. There are days they don't get out at all. I think they were hatched around july. I hope the roosters don't mature till I can get more biddies but I know that's not going to happen. ...


If the Brahma hen hatched in July then the she would be 5 months old in December. Assuming that is autumn where you live, then she would probably not lay until the days start getting longer in the spring. The same is probably true of the bantam hen as well. Since my chicks hatched in May, the hens were old enough to start laying before the days started getting too short. (Also, since I have lights on timers in the coop, primarily so I can see to feed and water the chickens before and after work, the light helps the hens keep laying eggs during the winter.)



mcostas said:


> ... It's wierd, one of the little banty roosters tried to crow in the short time I had him, but the big fellas have not even tried yet.
> ...
> I wish I lived where I could have a larger flock and a rooster, I'll bet these guys would be so pretty!


I am not surprised that the little bantam roosters started crowing before the bigger roosters. The smaller chickens seem to mature faster than the larger ones. My Easter Egger hens are smaller than the New Hampshire hens but Easter Eggers feathered out and matured faster than the rest. I had thought they were older but they just matured faster.  Hopefully roosters will mature slower in the winter. I have heard that it is easier to find homes for roosters in the spring.

I agree that those roosters would be very pretty. They are pretty now and should be beautiful when their hackle and saddle feathers grow out. It is too bad that you cannot keep a rooster where you are. At least you are allowed 5 hens.


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## Annalog

The low outside at our house last night was 10 F while the low inside the chicken coop was 21 F. All of the water containers froze as well as our pipes. I opened a gallon of bottled water and heated some to make warm mash for the chickens (as well as for hand washing and tooth brushing ). 

The chickens seem OK except for one that I noticed yesterday seemed a bit hunched and withdrawn. She did not come running to eat mash last night. She seems the same this morning.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> The low outside at our house last night was 10 F while the low inside the chicken coop was 21 F. All of the water containers froze as well as our pipes. I opened a gallon of bottled water and heated some to make warm mash for the chickens (as well as for hand washing and tooth brushing ).
> 
> The chickens seem OK except for one that I noticed yesterday seemed a bit hunched and withdrawn. She did not come running to eat mash last night. She seems the same this morning.


That is cold--but they should be able to handle it. I know my gram's chickens did. It probably bothers some chickens more than others. Keep us posted. Sounds like you could have had roosters for thanksgiving!!!


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> That is cold--but they should be able to handle it. I know my gram's chickens did. It probably bothers some chickens more than others. Keep us posted. Sounds like you could have had roosters for thanksgiving!!!


If it wasn't for the ones in the family that insist on turkey, many of us would have been happy with a few roasted roosters instead.

The three breeds of chickens that I have are supposed to be OK with both the heat and the cold. They are certainly dry and protected from drafts which is supposed to be what they need to be OK in the cold. I read that it is best to not add heat to the coop so that they will be OK if we lose electricity. I will need to figure out what to do to keep the water from freezing. I am thinking of getting a couple styrofoam chests to put over the outside water at night and bringing one of the coop water containers into the house each night. That way the coop will have warm water in the morning.

This morning, however, I boiled some water and poured it over the ice in the metal containers and put the glass containers in the sun which melted enough so that I could remove the ice in the bowl and let the liquid water from the jars into the drinking bowl.

EDIT: I also need to keep 3 or 4 gallon containers of water in the house instead of in the coop. That way I will always have water ready in the morning.


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## Annalog

The rooster in the hen house has been pecking DH aggressively the last few times he has fed the chickens. Tonight the rooster was pecking me any time I reached for the food or water dishes. This was the last friendly New Hampshire. The only friendly rooster left is the timid Barred Rock. DH cannot deal with aggressive roosters. I may need to delay the final decisions on the rooster to keep for another week.


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## Annalog

Tomorrow I will be going on the Third Annual Chicken Coop Tour as it is the first one I heard about before it was over. (Thank you Google alerts. ) I bought a ticket before they were sold out. The money goes to a local charity. The PDF map lists 15 coops while the Google map link shows 16. I need to decide which coops I want to see the most, based on descriptions in the PDF doc, as they are open from 10 AM to 3 PM and are spread over a wide area. I am planning on two hours of driving time and three hours of coop time. 

I will be wearing shoes I never wear around my chickens, probably old hiking boots, and the various coop owners will have shallow trays of bleach water for all visitors to step in or walk through.


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## J.M Pierce

My seven year old son just joined 4-H and guess what he wants to do? Raise chickens! Yeah for me...er...uh...I mean him! I told him I would build him his own coop in the spring and then we'd order some chicks (whatever kind he wants). I also told him that he would be responsible for feeding,watering, cleaning and anything else that might need to be done. We are very excited for spring!


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## Annalog

J.M. Pierce said:


> My seven year old son just joined 4-H and guess what he wants to do? Raise chickens! Yeah for me...er...uh...I mean him! I told him I would build him his own coop in the spring and then we'd order some chicks (whatever kind he wants). I also told him that he would be responsible for feeding,watering, cleaning and anything else that might need to be done. We are very excited for spring!


Happy news!!!


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## Annalog

Annalog said:


> The rooster in the hen house has been pecking DH aggressively the last few times he has fed the chickens. Tonight the rooster was pecking me any time I reached for the food or water dishes. This was the last friendly New Hampshire. The only friendly rooster left is the timid Barred Rock. DH cannot deal with aggressive roosters. I may need to delay the final decisions on the rooster to keep for another week.


I decided to put the timid Barred Rock rooster, Mr. Milquetoast, in with the hens and the possibly misnamed New Hampshire rooster, Lennon, in with the other roosters in the Rooster Retreat. I made the switch today as I was going to be home for the day and the weather for the next several days is mild. The switch seemed to go well for most of the day. The roosters seemed to be getting along and the hens were not worried about Mr. Milquetoast at all.

I tried putting an apron from Hen Savers on Ginger as she has a bare patch due to feathers broken by Lennon treading her. I could not get it over both wings. I made another one to match but with a slightly longer piece of elastic. The result was that two of the hens started picking on her. I took the apron off. I may try again if the bare patch gets bigger.

DH and I worked outside much of the day in order to keep checking on the chickens. Shortly before sunset there was a fight in the Rooster Retreat and Lennon tried to exit through the chain link fencing. I rushed into the Rooster Retreat while DH went to the outside where Lennon's head, neck and one shoulder were sticking out. I went to the back of the shelter, pushed the other roosters away, and worked with DH to get Lennon loose. I carried Lennon back to the hen pen while DH closed the door to the coop with Mr. Milquetoast inside the coop.

I sat on one of the blocks and checked out Lennon. His chest and side were warm but he seemed OK. I set him on the ground and he could not walk on his right leg. He would hop on the other leg each time he put the right one down. I picked him up again, calmed him down, and checked him over again. I did not find anything that seemed broken or out of place. He wanted down so I put him down again. This time he took some steps, hopped some more, and then took fairly normal steps again. I stayed watching him for a while hoping it was just bruises. As time passed, he walked more normally. Meanwhile it was getting dark and the remaining hens wanted to go inside. I went into the coop to get Mr. Milquetoast while DH went into the pen. When I had Mr. Milquetoast and was out of the coop, DH opened the coop door and let Lennon and the hens into the coop and then closed the coop door. I carried Mr. Milquetoast around into the pen. I set up a large box on its side as a temporary shelter with wood shavings inside. However, no matter how many times I put him in the box, he kept going to the top of the steps to the coop door.

Tomorrow I plan to let five of the hens outside with Mr. Milquetoast and keep the other five inside with Lennon. I cannot let Lennon and Mr. Milquetoast be together unsupervised. I cannot put Mr. Milquetoast back in with the other roosters as they are upset and acting more aggressive than usual.

My current plan is to build nesting boxes for the Rooster Retreat, process the three roosters there this weekend, and move Mr. Milquetoast and five hens in. I plan for those hens to be the Barred Rock hen Rosemary, and the four Easter Eggers, Ginger, Nutmeg, Cinnamon, and Clove.


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## Annalog

Yesterday was much less stressful than today. I visited 10 of the 15 coops on the Food Conspiracy Co-op's 2010 City Chickens Coop Tour.























First coop I visited (#13 on tour list) - 8 hens, 2 roosters, a peacock, milk goats, and horses. The coop is in a pen surrounded on all sides and on top with chicken wire.























This is a neat way to turn a covered bucket into a chicken feeder! A view of the roost. The chickens enjoy the shade under the coop.























The rooster walks a guard circuit around the coop, checking on the peacock and bantam rooster.























The bantam rooster is not impressed by the standard rooster. The milk goats are friendly and like to climb.
















The male goats are also friendly and one is a unicorn!

More pictures of coops on the tour later.


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## Annalog

This morning I lifted Lennon down from the roost because he seemed afraid to jump down. Once again he was hopping on one foot but after a while started walking with a limp instead. Only Rosemary, the Barred Rock, wanted to go out into the pen with Mr. Milquetoast; the rest turned around and went back inside. I closed the coop door and then I caught each of the Easter Eggers and carried them to the pen. I scattered scratch as a treat in the pen and the coop. All the hens seemed happy by the time I left for work. Chickens can be bribed with treats. 

Tomorrow is the earliest that chicks might hatch under the broody hen. Due to yesterday's activities I did not finish the brood area. It will be a busy week.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Getting caught up on all that has gone on in the last two weeks!  I think this is my favorite thread!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Getting caught up on all that has gone on in the last two weeks! I think this is my favorite thread!


Welcome back Carol! I hope you had a wonderful visit with your dad.


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## Annalog

I let the hens into the coop as soon as I got home from work. Mr. Milquetoast was a bit rough with the hens today. The only egg I could find outside had been eaten. At least two of the Easter Eggers waited to lay until I let them back into the coop.

Tomorrow morning I am going to put Mr. Milquetoast back in with the other roosters. I will add a step (cement block) inside the coop so that Lennon can get out more easily. He is still limping but seems to get around OK.


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## Annalog

Continuing with the coop tour photos:























Second coop I visited (#1 on tour list) - 5 hens, residential neighborhood. The coop/nesting shed is open to the north. The first photo was taking while facing west. The structure also contains a cactus "greenhouse" which also serves as a way to prevent the chickens from sneaking out. The container is filled with crushed oyster shell for the hens.































The roost and nesting area is decorated with advertising images. With three nesting boxes for five hens, there should never be a waiting line.  the shelter is double-walled with insulation to protect the hens against summer heat.


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## Annalog

Mr. Milquetoast is back in the Rooster Retreat. Lennon is limping but doing OK. (I hope he doesn't start biting DH again. I hope he can give peace a chance.  ) I found an eaten egg inside the coop this morning. I hope it was just due to the stress of yesterday.


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## Annalog

Continuing with the coop tour photos:
















Third coop I visited (#2 on tour list) - 15 hens, residential neighborhood. Chickens eating a lettuce treat. All of these heavy breed hens lay brown eggs, some "chocolate" brown.























The coop is open to the south. A short door for chickens is built into the door for humans.
















The coop was built around an existing tree for shade. Inside of the coop shows roosts on the back and side walls. This one made me think of a party sun room for chickens. I can imagine the chickens on the roosts chatting away.


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## Annalog

Continuing with the coop tour photos:
















Fourth coop I visited (#3 on tour list) - 6 hens, residential neighborhood. Sunshade over gate kept chickens from jumping over.
















A rabbit hutch converted to a nesting box. View from the other side.


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## Annalog

Continuing with the coop tour photos:























Fifth coop I visited (#5 on tour list) - 3 hens, residential neighborhood. Garden boxes in front yard. Nest boxes (possibly made from old cabinet or bookcase). Ramp might be so that chickens can access compost.
















Sixth coop I visited (#4 on tour list) - 22 hens and 2 turkeys, residential neighborhood. Chicken tractor contains both hens and turkeys. One of the turkeys in under the nesting box on the right.


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## Annalog

Continuing with the coop tour photos:
























Seventh coop I visited (#11 on tour list) - 6 hens. "Chickstine Chapel" is open to the east.

The structure is built of a combination of PVC pipe and metal pipe. I think the lower sections are cattle panels. The photos are of half of the chicken area. I took the pictures while standing in the "front room" of the structure. This room has a small outdoor table and a couple chairs and is accessed by a door to the outside. This means it is necessary to go through two doors to in order for the chickens to get loose without going through or under the chicken wire walls. Zip ties (wire ties or cable ties) were used to attach the chicken wire to the pipes.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Who knew chicken coops could be so creative!  Anna, is your chicken coop going to be on the tour next year?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Who knew chicken coops could be so creative! Anna, is your chicken coop going to be on the tour next year?


I doubt they would want my coop on the tour as it is more than 50 miles from Tucson. It would take 2 hours of the 5 hour tour time just to drive here and back.


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## Annalog

I was going to spend tonight at my Mom's house but DH phoned me before I left work to ask me what he should do because a chick had hatched. I phoned my Mom to let her know why I would not be coming over.

DH and I went out to the coop as soon as I got home. He showed me the empty eggshell. I looked under the hen and found a second empty eggshell and a very wet chick. 









The hen had been holding the chick between her wing and her body until I looked under the hen and this chick flopped down.









I helped the hen get the chick back under her wing.

I have put a short burlap barricade across the lower part of the nest opening in case the chicks try to wander tonight. Tomorrow morning I will move the hen, chicks, and eggs to a floor-level prepared area.


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## Annalog

This morning I decided to wait until evening to move the chicks, eggs, and hen since the hen looked so peaceful and the chicks could not be seen or heard.
















I started the setup of an area for the hen and chicks the day before they hatched. This gave time for the other chickens to explore and then become bored with the area. Tonight I added chick food (starter/grower) and water, moved the eggs, the hen, and then the chicks to the area. The hen settled on the eggs fairly quickly. The hen can get out and back in on her own if she wants to. One of the chicks got back under mom before I was ready to take pictures. 
















Mom called the chicks over to the food (ground scratch) in the shallow dishes and showed them how to eat it. The two chicks after eating their fill. The three chicks that have hatched so far are all New Hampshires.
















Not sure if he knows he is a dad but Lennon was watching me to make sure his hens were all OK. Lennon and the hens were listening to the momma hen and the chicks on the other side of the cardboard box barrier.























The three chicks are back under momma hen (probably between her body and wings). Burlap covers most of the wood shavings so the chicks are less likely to eat the litter. Looking in over the box barrier. The other hens can stand on these boxes to look at the hen and chicks. Finally, looking at momma hen through the wire wall from the people part of the coop. She now has all of the eggs and chicks under her. She has also moved back into the corner and seems settled for the night.


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## Annalog

View through the chicken door from the pen. The mother hen is behind the box near the wall. (I used two of the boxes I had used for the brood area when these chickens were chicks. The tops are covered with paper feed bags so that the chickens cannot get to the box handles.) The space above is where she was before I moved her. The hens often walk along the sawhorse roost to get to the nesting area. View of Lennon and some of the hens looking through the door from the people part of the coop. (A couple of the hens often try to get into the people part of the coop. I usually close the outside door so the hens are easy to put back into their section of the coop.) The back of Rosemary's head three days after Mr. Milquetoast pulled out many of the feathers on her head. Rosemary is looking into the people side of the coop.


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## Carol Hanrahan

How exciting to have little chicks again!  Congratulations all around!  They are adorable!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> How exciting to have little chicks again! Congratulations all around! They are adorable!


Thanks Carol. The hen is still sitting on the eggs so a few more might hatch. She seemed happy last night that she did not have to leave the nest to show the chicks how to eat. I hope today she shows the chicks how to drink water. Since tomorrow is Saturday, I will be able to check during the day to make sure that they are drinking as well as eating.


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## Annalog

Since the chicks hatched, the temperature in the coop has ranged from 35 F to 77 F. The temperature this evening in the coop was 68 F.






































After I put fresh food in the dishes, the chicks were quick to come out to eat. They went straight to the food. By the time I made it back with my camera, they had started wandering. They ate again and then seemed to ask, "Mom, can we go back under your wings?"

It is just a few days less than 7 months ago that I received the 25 chicks that had been shipped the day they were hatched.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Any names for the babies yet?  Have any more hatched?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Any names for the babies yet? Have any more hatched?


No names for the babies yet especially as I have no idea if they are pullets or cockerels. However I am considering naming the mom either Sage or Thyme. I haven't decided if she is a wise and sage hen or one who is willing to take the time to sit on eggs.

Today through the weekend are when I would expect chicks if any more are going to hatch. For the first four or five days after I put the first eggs under the hen I was able to keep track and collect the freshly laid eggs. After that the pencil markings had been mostly worn off the eggs so I left the additional brown eggs that the other hens laid in the nest. If the hen keeps sitting on the eggs, I will leave them until at least Sunday morning. After that I will probably take the unhatched eggs out.


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## Annalog

The nine laying hens are currently laying between four and eight eggs a day with six eggs on most days.

New routine: 
Before sunrise, fill two gallon jugs with warm water with 1 Tbs apple cider vinegar. Go into chicken pen and fill empty water dish of automatic waterer with warm water. (It is empty because the water is turned off in case it freezes) Open chicken door in coop. Chickens rush outside. Carry water into coop. Empty, clean, and fill waterers. Fill two Tupperware cereal bowls with organic layer pellets, add warm water to make mash, and set on cement blocks in coop. Half of the chickens rush into coop to eat mash while the other half wander in. Carry food and water to Rooster Retreat to clean and fill containers. Go back to coop to put a little scratch in the treat bucket. Carry the treat bucket to the pen and scatter the scratch around. All the chickens rush outside to eat the scratch. Close the chicken door in the coop. Walk inside the coop, move the portable roost and hanging feeder, move the box from in front of the nursery door, open the door to the mother hen and chicks area. Mother hen rushes out to look for mash spilled on the litter. When she finds it, she calls the chicks to come eat it. If she doesn't find any, she spills some on the litter and then calls the chicks. Meanwhile I remove the dirty chick waterer, remove any wet litter, refill the feed dishes with chick starter/grower and grit, and put in a clean and filled chick waterer. I put momma hen back in, she rushes out while I put a couple chicks in, I put momma hen in again, she and a chick rush out while I put another chick in, repeat until all three chicks and the momma hen are in the nursery area. Momma hen sits back on the eggs while I close the door to the nursery area. I put the box back in front of the door and put the end of the portable roost against it. I put the hanging feeder back. I go back out to the chicken pen and open the chicken door. Some of the flock rush back into the coop, some hunt for scratch, and some sit on the outside portable roost waiting for the first rays of the sun. (Time elapsed is 30-45 minutes depending on how much time I spend watching the chicks and hens.)

I leave for work and then come home after sunset.

I put a headlamp on and walk out to the chicken pen. I verify that no chickens are in the pen and close the chicken door. I empty and clean the automatic water dish. I check both 2 gallon waterers (chicken pen and Rooster Retreat) to see if they need cleaning and refilling. I refresh waterers in the coop as needed which usually means just dumping the water in the dish into a bucket and letting the dish refill. I check on the momma hen and chicks to see if they need anything. I count and check the flock to make sure each one is OK. I collect the eggs and go into the house to fix dinner. (Time elapsed is about 15 minutes.)

Weekends provide more time for visiting with the chickens. I would have more time during the week if I did not spend two hours a day driving to and from work but then I would not be able to keep roosters.


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## Annalog

I am very glad that I count my chickens every night! Tonight, after doing all of the chores, I counted my chickens and found I was missing a hen. I counted again and then went out to the pen to see if a chicken was there. I did not see any. I went into the coop and counted a third time and checked by breed. Rosemary, the Barred Rock hen, was the one who was missing. I was still missing a chicken. I went to the house to get a lantern. I checked the pen, checked the trees, walked around the house, checked the garden and around the rooster pen. I was beginning to worry that a hen had been stolen. I checked my memory to see if I could have let a hen get out. I checked the pen again and this time I did a check of the fencing and ground to see if there were any signs of escape. When I got to the corner where the automatic water dish sits I saw the movement of something small that made me think it was a mouse. I brought the light closer. It was the head of Rosemary. She had crawled through the 6"x6" holes of two cement blocks until she was completely inside and her head had reached the fence. I moved the water dish to the side, moved the outside block, and then carefully lifted the block containing Rosemary. She crawled forward out of the block and then walked slowly to the stairs to the coop. I opened the coop door and she went into the coop. I closed the coop door, left the pen, and went into the coop to verify that Rosemary was OK. She was eating mash, drinking water, and wandering around the coop. I checked her feathers and she seemed dry. It had been raining lightly but only her head was damp. She did have some chicken poop stuck to her feathers. I removed that and then left her with the other chickens. I hate to think how she would have been in the morning after spending the night stuck in a cold concrete block.

I will continue to compulsively count my chickens every evening.


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## Carol Hanrahan

I'm so glad you did the head count too!  Rosemary was a lucky hen!  Did you move the blocks so that couldn't happen again?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I'm so glad you did the head count too! Rosemary was a lucky hen! Did you move the blocks so that couldn't happen again?


Not yet. When I left for work this morning I had not yet figured out how I can have both the water dish and have it not happen again. I realized during lunch today that I could turn the blocks 90 degrees and put cap blocks on top. I will do that after I get home.

I use these cement blocks for several purposes. The stairs to the chicken door from the pen to the coop are made of these blocks. I can turn the steps and add cap blocks. There are blocks in the coop turned the same way that I use as tables for the waterers and to set the bowls of mash on. The step I added inside the coop after the rooster hurt his leg is one of these blocks. The holes in the blocks inside the coop are usually filled with litter so I think those are OK.


----------



## sem

I used to raise chickens some years ago - they all died of old age - I have a book full of chicken stories. I always thought that they spent their quiet time thinking of ways to do themselves in - if there is any way to get their heads in something, believe me, they will! They rarely are able to get said head out of where ever afterward.

Glad that you counted!


----------



## Annalog

Sem, I guess this means that Rosemary has spent the most time thinking or was the first to come up with an idea.


----------



## Annalog

sem said:


> I used to raise chickens some years ago - they all died of old age - I have a book full of chicken stories. I always thought that they spent their quiet time thinking of ways to do themselves in - if there is any way to get their heads in something, believe me, they will! They rarely are able to get said head out of where ever afterward.
> 
> Glad that you counted!


Sem, I would love to read those chicken stories! Because they are curious, single-minded, and easily distracted, my chickens sometimes remind me of cats and two-year-olds. I often think cats and two-year-olds seem spend their time thinking up ways of getting into mischief.


----------



## drenee

All caught up on the chicken thread.  
I did not realize you would have babies so soon.
Thank you for sharing.
deb


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

How many babies now?


----------



## Annalog

drenee said:


> All caught up on the chicken thread.
> I did not realize you would have babies so soon.
> Thank you for sharing.
> deb


I had not expected a hen to go broody so quickly but I am glad I let her sit on eggs. The three chicks are cute and the hen is a good mother. This morning I removed the unhatched eggs, cleaned out the dirty litter, and added fresh wood shavings. I think I will wait at least another week before I see how the other chickens react to the mom and chicks. So far I am only letting the mom and chicks out into the main coop area when the only other chickens in the coop are hens in the nests. I am now blocking the area with a single box so that the chickens can see in and mom and chicks can see out.


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> How many babies now?


Just the three. None of the other eggs hatched and a couple had started to spoil.


----------



## Annalog

With the momma hen busy taking care of the chicks, the other nine hens laid 9 eggs two days last week, 8 eggs two other days, and 7, 6, and 4 eggs the other days for an average of more than 7.25 eggs per day. Either the lights being on from 6 AM to 9 PM each day is truly working or those hens know it is holiday baking season.  

I was asked if I had chicks a couple weeks ago when I bought two chick waterers at a local feed store. I said that three had hatched and that I was surprised that the hen had gone broody in November. He then asked if my hens were still laying and, when I said that they were laying very well, he replied that most people were complaining that their hens had stopped laying. I mentioned that I had lights on in my coop so that I could feed and water the chickens before and after work. He said that explained it and that he had recommend lights to the others. I suspect it is also explains why the hen figured it was OK to go broody. After all, the length the lights are on matches summer days and the winter weather here is more like spring weather farther north.

I am glad, however, that the sun will start rising earlier each day. With the rain this morning, it was especially dark and the hens stayed in the coop when I opened the door to the pen. It was a bit crowded in the pen when I set up barricades in order to open the chick nursery doors while keeping the other chickens out of that area. It worked but was not as easy as when the chickens all go out into the pen.   Fortunately the sky was clearing as I left for work and some of the hens had gone into the pen.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> With the momma hen busy taking care of the chicks, the other nine hens laid 9 eggs two days last week, 8 eggs two other days, and 7, 6, and 4 eggs the other days for an average of more than 7.25 eggs per day. Either the lights being on from 6 AM to 9 PM each day is truly working or those hens know it is holiday baking season.
> 
> I was asked if I had chicks a couple weeks ago when I bought two chick waterers at a local feed store. I said that three had hatched and that I was surprised that the hen had gone broody in November. He then asked if my hens were still laying and, when I said that they were laying very well, he replied that most people were complaining that their hens had stopped laying. I mentioned that I had lights on in my coop so that I could feed and water the chickens before and after work. He said that explained it and that he had recommend lights to the others. I suspect it is also explains why the hen figured it was OK to go broody. After all, the length the lights are on matches summer days and the winter weather here is more like spring weather farther north.
> 
> I am glad, however, that the sun will start rising earlier each day. With the rain this morning, it was especially dark and the hens stayed in the coop when I opened the door to the pen. It was a bit crowded in the pen when I set up barricades in order to open the chick nursery doors while keeping the other chickens out of that area. It worked but was not as easy as when the chickens all go out into the pen.  Fortunately the sky was clearing as I left for work and some of the hens had gone into the pen.


Definitely not egg season in the store--prices are close to double what they were a few months ago!

Merry Christmas to you and your happy hens!


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Definitely not egg season in the store--prices are close to double what they were a few months ago!
> 
> Merry Christmas to you and your happy hens!


Merry Christmas to you, Maria. Thank you.

I am glad I don't need to buy eggs this time of year. I will be baking two batches of butterscotch brownies tomorrow and each batch uses 5 eggs.


----------



## Annalog

My chickens and I send best wishes for all.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog, I think you have the happiest hens west of the Mississippi!
Happy Holidays!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Annalog, I think you have the happiest hens west of the Mississippi!
> Happy Holidays!


Thanks, Carol, and Happy Holidays!


----------



## intinst

Thought of you and this thread when I found this picture, so had to post it here.


----------



## Annalog

intinst said:


> Thought of you and this thread when I found this picture, so had to post it here.


Thanks Intinst! What a wonderful image!


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, How are the babies doing?  We need an update!


----------



## MariaESchneider

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, How are the babies doing? We need an update!


Or eggs. We could always use the eggs.

The Superbowl is nearing and I always make deviled eggs for the Superbowl. See, right there, that's at least a dozen eggs needed.


----------



## Annalog

Egg update: There are currently 4 dozen eggs in my fridge. 2 dozen are going to work tomorrow and a dozen to family members. Stop by and you can have a dozen too. 

Chick update:








The three chicks are growing! Their bodies are feathered and one of them likes flying to the top of momma's back. However she does not let the chick stay there long enough for a picture. 

I am taking most of next week off so that I can chick-proof the chicken pen, add a chick-only area next to the nursery, and change the nursery so that momma hen and chicks can enter and leave whenever they wish. That will also mean that any other chickens can enter the nursery which is why I am adding a chick-only area.

Momma hen has figured out how to get out of the nursery but she has not figured out how to get back in.

When the chicks have tried to join the other chickens during morning and evening mash feeding time, the chickens have been mostly accepting of the chicks. However there is one hen who makes sure that they know that they are at the bottom of the pecking order.


----------



## Annalog

Chicken update:















Lennon checking to see that I was not disturbing his chicks or hens. When he was sure that they were OK, he went back to eating. 
















Rosemary and an Easter Egger sitting in the two nests.
















Another Easter Egger waits her turn while two other chickens are at the chicken door to the pen.


----------



## B-Kay 1325

Annalog, I love this thread!!  It is very interesting and fun to read, the pictures are great and complete the telling of the story.  Please keep the updates coming!


----------



## Annalog

Thanks! Life has been a bit hectic lately. Spending time with the chicks and hens has often been the calmest part of my day. A sitting hen is definitely focused. 

Maria, thanks for reminding me about deviled eggs. I have the eggs and Claussen dill pickles and need to get some horseradish mustard.


----------



## Angela

Finally caught up. I love reading your chicken adventures and am excited about the new babies!


----------



## Annalog

Momma Thyme has decided it is time to leave the chicks alone for part of the day. I have been giving the chicks more time in the coop while I am present to make sure that all is OK. Until today I have made sure that the rooster, Lennon, was outside. Today I let the chicks out while Lennon was in the coop. Thyme and the chicks were in the nursery area with the doors open. Lennon decided he wanted to check out the nursery area. While Thyme stayed between him and the chicks, Lennon seemed interested in them and definitely NOT agressive.  Another hen also came into the nursery area and started to peck at the chicks. I pushed her away and out of the area. I also stopped her from comming back. Lennon looked at me as if he approved. Usually he would consider pecking me if I upset one of the hens. This time he looked at me and decided to stay where he was. Eventually he came out of the nursery area and I closed the doors.

Today I covered the outside door to the chicken pen with hardware cloth. I have one more section of chain link to cover in order to make it difficult for the chicks to get out. 

I am also planning on making a couple chick-safe boxes so that the chicks will have places where they can go that the adult chickens cannot. One will be for in the coop and the other for the pen. Then I will be able to let the chicks out of the nursery unsupervised.


----------



## Annalog

Today  I covered the last lower section of the chain link in the chicken pen so that it would be difficult for the chicks to get out of of the pen. I was unsuccessful in making chick-safe boxes but I rearranged the blocks in the steps from the pen to the coop so that the chicks have several cubby holes that they can hide in. I also removed the hardware cloth from the nursery doors and raised the doors a few inches so that the chicks can go through and under the doors but full-sized chickens cannot.

I am typing this post from inside the chicken pen. Several of the hens are watching me as if they are trying to figure out what I am doing. Rosemary just jumped up on my leg and pecked on the netbook.  I have spent quite a few hours in the pen so that I can watch to make sure3 the chicks are OK. Several of the hens peck at the chicks and some have pulled out a feather or two. The chicks are very good at running or flying away. Sometimes they call out and Momma Thyme comes running to protect them. The chicks have also run behind where I am sitting as then the other hens cannot get to them. Occasionally they run behind Lennon and he will protect them from the other hens.

I have taken some pictures but my camera needs new batteries. I  will post them soon.

One of the chicks just flew up to my shoulder, walked down my arm, and then did it again and again.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Thanks! Life has been a bit hectic lately. Spending time with the chicks and hens has often been the calmest part of my day. A sitting hen is definitely focused.
> 
> Maria, thanks for reminding me about deviled eggs. I have the eggs and Claussen dill pickles and need to get some horseradish mustard.


Chop bacon very fine and then fry until crisp. Add to whatever your recipe is (I used about two tablespoons of peppered bacon--only the centers per dozen eggs!)


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Chop bacon very fine and then fry until crisp. Add to whatever your recipe is (I used about two tablespoons of peppered bacon--only the centers per dozen eggs!)


I hadn't considered bacon in deviled eggs before. Sounds interesting.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Sounds good - I've never heard of bacon in deviled eggs either.  Now I'm hungry.


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## MariaESchneider

It's more like bacon bits, than bacon.  Oh--I should also have said that if you use bacon, don't add any salt to the recipe.  The bacon adds a nice touch of salt (and in my case pepper since I use the peppered bacon).  You can use 1 tablespoon per dozen if you're not sure.  I think the original recipe might have been one tablespoon and to be honest, I don't measure.  I just take the meaty part of the bacon, chop some bits and then eyeball it when adding to the yolks.  They soften in the mix so don't be afraid to crisp the bits, just don't burn them!

Gosh.  I sure could use some deviled eggs now...starved!!!


----------



## Annalog

The chicks seem to be doing fine on their own. Momma Thyme is away from them most of the time now. The chicks spend their time together and have no trouble going from the coop to the pen and back. I checked on them after lights out tonight and found that Momma Thyme was sitting on the cement block that is used as a step up to the door to the pen and the three chicks were sitting on the litter in front of her, close enough to snuggle for warmth if necessary. The transition from nursery to flock seems to have gone smoothly.


----------



## Annalog

Momma Thyme must have started laying again as today there were 6 brown eggs (and two green ones). She had become broody by November 12. After hatching and raising the chicks, she started laying again by January 17. She might have started laying a few days ago but I cannot be sure. In any case, approximately 9 weeks when she was not laying eggs. (less than a week for me to decide to let her keep some eggs, 3 weeks to hatch the chicks, a little over 4 weeks for her to decide the chicks did not need her full time attention, and less than a week more for the chicks to be pretty much on their own.) 

I hope she waits a while before becoming broody again as we often have very cold weather in March and April. The current chicks will be completely feathered by then but it would be very cold for younger chicks.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, We need updates!  Or pics!  Or eggs!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, We need updates! Or pics! Or eggs!


Update:
The hens are busy laying eggs. Sunday 8 eggs, Monday 8 eggs, Tuesday 8 eggs, Wednesday 5 eggs (half the hens took the day off  ), Thursday 8 eggs.

The three chicks are growing. I need to take new photos. I suspect that two are roosters because they have red wattles showing and the other one might be a hen as I do not see any wattles on that chick yet. The chicks still tend to stay together as a couple of the hens pick on them. However the chicks are good at keeping away from those hens.

Lennon, the rooster, definitely considers the chicks part of his flock. In the evenings I put chick mash in the chick nursery area. The chicks are usually in one of the nests so I pick them up one at a time to move them to the nursery. The chicks usually squawk and make a fuss. Lennon then becomes protective of them and tries to peck my hands or arms to let me know I am disturbing his flock. He does not listen when I tell him I am just trying to make sure that the chicks get to eat their food in peace.  The chicks often run out of the nursery to eat the layer mash and then run back to the nursery.


----------



## Annalog

Update:
Last night the temperature inside the coop had a low of 33 F while outside it was 17 F. Today the high inside the coop only reached 44 F when it had been reaching a high in the mid 60s. We are expecting single digits tonight and tomorrow night with a wind chill of -3. When I got home from work today, the temperature inside the coop was 32 but it had been down to 31. All the chickens were inside the coop. The water in the chick waterer had ice. I filled all four waterers in the coop with warm water. The temperature inside the coop went up to 34 F after I closed the chicken door to the pen.

I hung up the heat lamp I used last year with the chicks with a red heat lamp bulb. It is hanging near the ceiling and will be on all night unless I see that the temperature climbs significantly in the next hour. (The temperature went up to 35 F inside the coop after about 1/2 hour. However, since there is a turbine fan in the roof of the coop, I expect that much of the heat will go outside. I don't want to block the opening as it provides ventilation.) While the chickens and chicks in the coop should be fine without the heat lamp, the change in weather has been so sudden that I think that the extra heat from the lamp should be OK for them. There are still four roosters in the rooster retreat; they were already huddled in their shelter away from the wind. I hope they will be OK since there is no electricity there for a heat lamp. It is dry with no precipitation expected this week, just cold and windy.

EDIT: The heat lamp will stay on since the coop temp is now down to 33 F with it on.


----------



## Annalog

Update:
We had a low of 11 F last night (wind chill -7) and it was 12 F when I fed the chickens this morning. The low inside the coop was 23 F with the heat lamp on all night. The waterers in the coop had some ice but I was able to empty them and fill with warm water. The chicks and chickens were fine but eager for their warm morning mash. The hens rushed outside when I opened the coop door and sprinkled their morning scratch around the pen. I left the chicken door to the pen open. This caused the temperature in the coop to drop to 22 F by the time I left for work but since the sun is up and the temperature is supposed to get up to 34 F. I don't think the coop temperature will get too much colder, especially as I am leaving the heat lamp on. It is better for the chickens to have access to the pen and fresh air as long as they can go into the coop whenever they want. 

The roosters came out of their unheated retreat at sunrise. I did not see any sign of frostbite on their combs. Since their waterer was completely frozen, I put a large water dish (weighted crock intended for dogs) in their pen so that they would have liquid water.

Tonight I will clean the outside waterers and then bring them in the house so that it will be easy to fill them with warm water in the morning.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Update:
> We had a low of 11 F last night (wind chill -7) and it was 12 F when I fed the chickens this morning. The low inside the coop was 23 F with the heat lamp on all night. The waterers in the coop had some ice but I was able to empty them and fill with warm water. The chicks and chickens were fine but eager for their warm morning mash. The hens rushed outside when I opened the coop door and sprinkled their morning scratch around the pen. I left the chicken door to the pen open. This caused the temperature in the coop to drop to 22 F by the time I left for work but since the sun is up and the temperature is supposed to get up to 34 F. I don't think the coop temperature will get too much colder, especially as I am leaving the heat lamp on. It is better for the chickens to have access to the pen and fresh air as long as they can go into the coop whenever they want.
> 
> The roosters came out of their unheated retreat at sunrise. I did not see any sign of frostbite on their combs. Since their waterer was completely frozen, I put a large water dish (weighted crock intended for dogs) in their pen so that they would have liquid water.
> 
> Tonight I will clean the outside waterers and then bring them in the house so that it will be easy to fill them with warm water in the morning.


This cold has been brutal. I'm in Texas where we get one or two hard freezes (near 20 usually). We've had three straight days where it didn't get above freezing and the nights have been 14, 18 and tonight another 18--tomorrow we might climb above freezing. The feral cat has even decided she can stand to sleep a few hours indoors and she is one tough kitty. She made the first day, night and second day outside, but once she came in for food and noticed it was warm, she was loathe to go back out and stay there. We've got a cat door and she's been using it. When we close the big door, she gets mad, but she's having to live with it closed a good part of the time. I'm not opening the door very wide or very often when it's 25 for the high of the day.

Glad you have that heat lamp. That's got to help some and block some of the cold drafts. We should be better by Sat and I expect your weather should improve too!


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> This cold has been brutal. I'm in Texas where we get one or two hard freezes (near 20 usually). We've had three straight days where it didn't get above freezing and the nights have been 14, 18 and tonight another 18--tomorrow we might climb above freezing. The feral cat has even decided she can stand to sleep a few hours indoors and she is one tough kitty. She made the first day, night and second day outside, but once she came in for food and noticed it was warm, she was loathe to go back out and stay there. We've got a cat door and she's been using it. When we close the big door, she gets mad, but she's having to live with it closed a good part of the time. I'm not opening the door very wide or very often when it's 25 for the high of the day.
> 
> Glad you have that heat lamp. That's got to help some and block some of the cold drafts. We should be better by Sat and I expect your weather should improve too!


I don't think it got above freezing here today. I am surprised that the bowl of water I put in the rooster pen did not freeze. All of the other water outside was frozen solid. The prediction for our low tonight is 7. I hope the roosters in their unheated shelter do OK again tonight. At least it is currently calm and their shelter keeps them out of the wind.

I brought all of the frozen outside waterers into the house. I put them in the shower and hope the ice melts enough tonight so that I can clean them and fill them with warm water.

The waterers inside the chicken coop had ice in the bowls but the chickens had pecked through the ice on the surface and the water underneath was still liquid. The thermometers in the coop, at my eye level, said the coop temperature was 38 F but it must have been cooler by the floor. I refilled all the waterers in the coop with warm water and also put 5 gallon jugs with warm water on the people side of the interior door.

I found the square of foam insulation that fits the opening to the turbine fan in the roof. I put it so that it partially blocked the opening and the temperature in the coop rose to 41 F but has dropped back to 40. I will leave it in place tonight and then take it back out in the morning.

It is supposed to get to 47 F tomorrow with a low of 20 F with the weekend a bit warmer yet. We will be back to normal temperatures.


----------



## Annalog

Update:
The low at our house was 7.5 F according to our digital inside/outside thermometer. The low in the chicken coop was 23 F. The foam insulation square fell down during the night but at least the coop started the night above freezing.

The roosters were fine and crowing this morning when I carried the waterer with warm water out to their retreat. The hens rushed out of the coop when I opened their door. Their outside waterer is also filled with warm water. (Ice from the waterers is still melting in my shower. ) The small waterers inside the coop had ice filling the bowls but the water in the jars was still liquid so those were easy to clean and fill this morning. All the hens and chicks are doing fine. I am glad that today will get above freezing and that the weekend will be warmer.


----------



## Annalog

Tomorrow I will be making a second chick nursery. One of the chicks today got its head stuck and possibly tore the skin on the back of the head. He was released and no blood was seen. Later a chick, probably the same one, got stuck in a different place. When I found the chick, it was in shock and the skin on the back of its head and neck from just below the back of the comb, just behind the ears, and down to just above the back was missing. There was some blood but not much. I suspect that the damage was done by one or more adult hens.

I brought the chick into the house. I set up a box with wood chips and a chick waterer in the shower in the master bath while DH held the chick and put triple antibiotic ointment where the skin is missing. The chick calmed down, so we put it in the box where it seems to be resting comfortably.

I checked on the Web and it seems we did most of the right things so far. In the morning I will clean the area again, try to bring the edges of skin closer together if possible, add more antibiotic ointment, and make sure the chick has food, water, and warmth. I will then set up an area in the people side of the coop where the chick can be safe but near the other chicks.

Based on the Web information, if we can prevent an infection, the wound should heal, some skin and feather might grow back, and the chick should be OK.


----------



## Annalog

Update: The chick did not survive the night. I saw this morning that there was an additional wound beside the tail and under one wing that we did not see last night. I do not think it would have made much difference if we had known as there was very little additional bleeding.


----------



## prairiesky

Well, nuts.  I was hoping the little guy was OK.  I wonder what was so serious as to kill him.  Didn't sound that bad.


----------



## Annalog

prairiesky said:


> Well, nuts. I was hoping the little guy was OK. I wonder what was so serious as to kill him. Didn't sound that bad.


I suspect that it was the shock and possibly earlier blood loss that we did not see.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Sad to hear this, about the chick.  Will you still make the other nursery?


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Sad to hear this, about the chick. Will you still make the other nursery?


I will not make the other nursery yet as the two remaining chicks stay together and use the current nursery. I do have the materials for making an isolation nursery so it will be easy to do if it is necessary.

Instead, DH and I are working on getting the fencing done so that we can let the chickens have a larger area to roam in during the day. In addition with access to more plants and bugs to eat, with more space, the chickens that are lower on the pecking order will have more places to go to get away.


----------



## Annalog

Only Mr. Milquetoast is remaining in the Rooster Retreat. I hoped I could move Lennon in with Mr. Milquetoast but it did not work out. DH and I are working on fencing so that the chickens will be able to range outside the pens.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, how are the babies?  They must be getting big!  Any plans for more egg hatching?


----------



## MamaProfCrash

I have enjoyed reading this topic. Chickens are way more work then puppies but you get eggs so it is worth it.


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, how are the babies? They must be getting big! Any plans for more egg hatching?


Carol, the babies are about half the size of the hens. 

All plans for egg hatching are up to the hens. Ginger spent a lot of yesterday in one of the nests but did not spend the night there so she is not broody yet. If one of the hens becomes broody then I will move her and some eggs to the nursery.

I am hoping that DH and I will be able to get enough fencing up by the end of this weekend to allow Mr. Milquetoast to test it.


----------



## Annalog

ProfCrash said:


> I have enjoyed reading this topic. Chickens are way more work then puppies but you get eggs so it is worth it.


Welcome ProfCrash! The 10 hens were very good girls yesterday as they laid 10 eggs. It is not very often that all the laying hens each lay an egg so I get excited when it happens.  However they have been laying 8 or 9 regularly with one day a week where they lay 5 or 6.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, you are our resident expert, so I have a question for you.  I've been watching the eagle cam, and she laid two eggs about two days apart.  If they both hatch, fingers crossed, will they also hatch a day or so apart?  How does that work?


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, you are our resident expert, so I have a question for you. I've been watching the eagle cam, and she laid two eggs about two days apart. If they both hatch, fingers crossed, will they also hatch a day or so apart? How does that work?


Is the eagle sitting on the eggs yet?

I am not sure if it is the same for eagles as for chickens but with chickens, the embryos in the eggs don't really start developing until the hen starts sitting on the eggs. It is almost as if the eggs wait in stasis. This is so that a hen can lay eggs over the course of a week to 10 days before starting to sit on the clutch of eggs. Once she starts sitting, the embryos start to develop. This lets the eggs all hatch within a day or two of each other instead of the several days it took from when the first was laid until the last was laid. Chicken eggs incubate for about 21 days before they hatch. A hen is supposed to wait a day or two for the eggs to finish hatching. Baby chicks are able to eat and drink on their own the same day that they hatch although they can survive OK for three days without eating or drinking. This is a characteristic common with birds in the pheasant family. This allows the hen to wait a bit for the remaining eggs to hatch.

However, since eagles are in a different bird family, I am not sure how much the above will apply.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

She was sitting on the first egg immediately, since it is so cold there in W. Va.  She and the male take turns sitting on the eggs.  Sometimes one brings a meal to the nest for the other to eat.
I guess I thought that all birds would incubate their eggs the same way.  Last year, there was only one chick.  That's why I was wondering!
It's amazing that chicken eggs can wait so long until the hen sets on them!


----------



## Annalog

Birds in the pheasant family (chickens, turkeys, quail, etc.) tend to have nests on the ground and raise fairly large clutches (possibly so that one or two will survive). The chicks are precocial and able to move and to feed as soon as they hatch. Adults lead them to food sources and the young feed on their own. 

Birds that nest in trees tend to have much smaller clutches and the chicks need a lot of care before they are able to feed themselves.

This makes a big difference in how the birds care for their young.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Very interesting about the sitting and hatching.

It's warmed up here; I expect the weather is much nicer for you as well.  I spent the day lugging dirt around (my passion is gardening since I cannot have chickens.  Hmm.  I cannot imagine doing both...that would be a ton of work.  But of course, I would do it, if circumstances were right!)

At any rate, it has been 70 for a couple of days and a nice week to come.  Full speed ahead!

(Yes, we had deviled eggs for Superbowl.  YUM.)


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Very interesting about the sitting and hatching.
> 
> It's warmed up here; I expect the weather is much nicer for you as well. I spent the day lugging dirt around (my passion is gardening since I cannot have chickens. Hmm. I cannot imagine doing both...that would be a ton of work. But of course, I would do it, if circumstances were right!)
> 
> At any rate, it has been 70 for a couple of days and a nice week to come. Full speed ahead!
> 
> (Yes, we had deviled eggs for Superbowl. YUM.)




I have to start working in the garden this weekend. I still haven't cleared the dead asparagus ferns.


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## MariaESchneider

Since we moved the garden to a new location (for many long and boring reasons) it was...an incredible amount of work.  I had to move all the bricks/rocks because we do a raised bed here (limestone bedrock).    Then we had to haul...oh I guess it ended up being about 2 cubic yards of dirt/compost and so on.  Mixing it, planting and then keeping the onions and lettuce covered during the freeze...somehow it was just a huge, huge amount of work.  I usually look forward to garden with a nearly blinding passion, but I must admit, all that work sure put a damper on things.  I still have some very large rocks that need to be moved and one section in the new area has to be properly erected.  I planted snap peas yesterday and  since some were in pots I need to get the trellis up...whew.  Just whew.


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## Annalog

Maria, how is the garden growing? did you get the trellis up? I still have not finished cutting down the old asparagus ferns. I have neglected the garden since focusing on the chickens. However I do need to start planting again, if only to keep the chickens in fresh greens. 

Last week the hens were laying five or six eggs a day. Yesterday they only laid three eggs. I suspect that they will take a break and start moulting soon.

I also let Mr. Milquetoast out of the rooster retreat so that he could wander around the garden. I thought he would make a good test chicken (guinea pig?) to see how the rest of the chickens might act when we finish the fencing and can let them range a bit. Mr Milquetoast stayed fairly close to his pen. I had thought he would head straight to the pen containing the hens and Lennon.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Maria, how is the garden growing? did you get the trellis up? I still have not finished cutting down the old asparagus ferns. I have neglected the garden since focusing on the chickens. However I do need to start planting again, if only to keep the chickens in fresh greens.
> 
> Last week the hens were laying five or six eggs a day. Yesterday they only laid three eggs. I suspect that they will take a break and start moulting soon.
> 
> I also let Mr. Milquetoast out of the rooster retreat so that he could wander around the garden. I thought he would make a good test chicken (guinea pig?) to see how the rest of the chickens might act when we finish the fencing and can let them range a bit. Mr Milquetoast stayed fairly close to his pen. I had thought he would head straight to the pen containing the hens and Lennon.


Hey Annalog,

The garden is going pretty darn well! I just got another bucket (small bucket thing I use) of lettuce! I can't believe how much I'm enjoying lettuce! I'm not much of a salad person, but all these different lettuces are intriguing. I've never had arugula, but am finding it has a very nice little peppery taste that I really like.

The beans are all up and the earliest planted are producing a couple of pods every other day (they are snap peas). I've been collecting those two and 6 pods for 3 weeks and almost have enough for a side dish. I think I'm going to use them in a salad with the greens. But I want to try making my own dressing...so we'll see how it all goes!!! I find that I get all this stuff picked and then after watering and whatnot, I'm too lazy/tired to do things like make dressings, pizza dough and the rest of dinner...

We're going to have a few cold nights, so I brought the cuc pots in. There are no cucs in them yet, darn it. They aren't germinating. I may end up buying plants or starting over. They're cold sensitive, but it hasn't been cold so I'm not sure why they haven't come up. Stubborn.

Most of the onions made it (to my surprise). It will be months yet before even the green ones are ready, but it's a pretty happy sight seeing all those green things!!!

Those lazy chickens of yours!!!  At least Mr. Milquetoast didn't go running off into the wilderness to strut his stuff!! That's good news.


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Hey Annalog,
> ... The beans are all up and the earliest planted are producing a couple of pods every other day (they are snap peas). I've been collecting those two and 6 pods for 3 weeks and almost have enough for a side dish.
> ...
> Those lazy chickens of yours!!!  At least Mr. Milquetoast didn't go running off into the wilderness to strut his stuff!! That's good news.


Have you been blanching and freezing the peas or just keeping them in the fridge? When I was gardening and harvesting veggies that needed cooking, I would either throw them in with other veggies when I did not have enough to cook alone or blanch and put in the freezer.

I am glad the hens are slowing down. They need to take a rest after laying so well all winter.


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## MariaESchneider

Snap peas don't do great in the freezer.  They get stringy and limp.  They'll get a little limp in the fridge, but I can either stir fry them and that sort of evens them out, or in the salad it won't be so noticeable.  So I decided.  

I love the things.  Texas isn't really the best place to grow them, but they do okay in the winter.  I am hoping for a  bumper crop when they all get going.  Keeping fingers crossed!!!


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## Annalog

That makes sense. I think it was green beans that I froze most often.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> That makes sense. I think it was green beans that I froze most often.


Those do freeze well. They don't grow much better here than snap peas so I go with snap peas because I like them better. Too bad snaps get soggy and waterlogged and just ick in the freezer. Not that we have enough to freeze with me eating them all!


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## Annalog

Lennon's leg appears to have gotten worse quickly. He and some of the hens were pecking at the bad joint. He has been limping more lately and not putting weight on the leg except when he has to. I will try to examine it closely after I get home this afternoon.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Lennon's leg appears to have gotten worse quickly. He and some of the hens were pecking at the bad joint. He has been limping more lately and not putting weight on the leg except when he has to. I will try to examine it closely after I get home this afternoon.


Just like cats--can't leave those spots alone--they worry them to infection!!! Hope he gets better soon!

M


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## Annalog

Sad news first:


Spoiler



Early Sunday I was able to examine Lennon's leg while DH was holding him. It was worse than I had thought. The joint had come apart and his leg was infected. It did not look as if it could heal well enough for him to ever walk on it again. We decided that it would be best to end his pain.



Other news:
DH hired a friend of the family to help him put up fencing around the property. It looks as if we will have an area where we can let the chickens range under supervision in two weeks.

I cleared out the litter from the chicken coop. I was using the "deep litter" system over the winter. The litter in the 8' x 8' area was at least 6" deep so that made 32 cubic feet of used litter. It was windy outside so I transported the litter to the compost pile in a covered bin that probably held about 1.5 cubic feet (~ 13 gallons). That made for several trips. 

After about 5 trips, I noticed that one of the hens had blood on her rear end. I called DH away from fencing to hold the hen. Fortunately it was a superficial skin injury and not an internal injury. I sent DH in for peroxide, clean paper towels, etc. I cleaned the hen and put her out in the pen by herself so the other chickens would not keep pecking on her. I then cleared the area that had been used as the chick nursery. I set up that area as an isolation area for the injured chicken and moved her in. I kept making trips taking out old litter. After I had about half the area cleared and swept, I put fresh wood shavings down there and moved the various chicken "furniture" to the clean area. (Chicken furniture includes the movable roost and 8" x 16" x 8" cement blocks used as steps and tables for water and food dishes.) By the time I finished taking all of the old litter out and replacing it with fresh, I could see that the injured hen was not going to be OK in the separate area. She kept trying to get out and the other hens were trying to help. Not only did she keep tipping over the water and food containers but I was afraid that she would hurt herself worse. By this time her injury had stopped bleeding so I let her out.

The events of this weekend have helped me convince DH that we need a third pen and shelter so that we have the ability to separate chickens when necessary. That will let us have the regular area for the flock, the rooster retreat, and a recuperation area.


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## MariaESchneider

Sorry about rooster... 

That composting is a lot of work, but it will be worth it.  My tomato plants are HUGE--and they are living off of turkey compost.    It's the way to go.

I just wish the tomatoes would HURRY up.  

If I get chickens I want a mobile pen with the bottom that is a drop door.  That way you wheel the pen to the area you want and dump the litter...I wonder if I can send you picture.  Maybe you could make that your third pen!


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## Annalog

Thanks Maria.

A mobile pen won't work for us right now for a couple reasons. First, since the yard is not fenced, I am worried about safety at night from large predators. Second, most of our acre is desert with wild quail. I do not want to disturb the wild habitat any more than necessary.  The fencing we are putting in has the main quail area on the outside.

However, after we finish the fencing and the back wall, I can see uses for a mobile pen, or chicken tractor, or two as well as the main coop/pen, secondary/isolation coop/pen, and rooster retreat. By that time I hope to have a small orchard to move the rooster retreat into so that it is not in the middle of the vegetable garden.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Thanks Maria.
> 
> A mobile pen won't work for us right now for a couple reasons. First, since the yard is not fenced, I am worried about safety at night from large predators. Second, most of our acre is desert with wild quail. I do not want to disturb the wild habitat any more than necessary. The fencing we are putting in has the main quail area on the outside.
> 
> However, after we finish the fencing and the back wall, I can see uses for a mobile pen, or chicken tractor, or two as well as the main coop/pen, secondary/isolation coop/pen, and rooster retreat. By that time I hope to have a small orchard to move the rooster retreat into so that it is not in the middle of the vegetable garden.


The amount of work in that last paragraph is...mind BOGGLING.


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> The amount of work in that last paragraph is...mind BOGGLING.



Fortunately, much of the work is already done. 


Annalog said:


> ... However, after we finish the fencing and the back wall, I can see uses for a mobile pen, or chicken tractor, or two as well as the main coop/pen, secondary/isolation coop/pen, and rooster retreat. By that time I hope to have a small orchard to move the rooster retreat into so that it is not in the middle of the vegetable garden.


The main coop/pen is essentially finished. All it needs is a second chicken door put into the back. The area for the secondary pen is identified beside the first pen and the second chicken door will open into it. Yesterday DH and I identified where we could put the secondary/isolation coop so that both coops could use either pen.

The rooster retreat is already built so that it is easy to disassemble and reassemble. The pen for the rooster retreat could then be picked up and moved out of the garden as long as we do it before the garden wall is added.

The main yard fencing should be finished in two or three weekends since it is only enclosing a fraction of the acre.

The small orchard is already started as I planted two apple trees in 4' x 4' planter a couple years ago. Last year one of the trees produced an apple. Both trees made it through the rough winter and they are looking very healthy. We already have the water plumbed for the next planter area. As soon as that planter is in place and trees planted, I will consider the area a very small orchard. (I am not sure that two trees counts as an orchard but I think four trees might qualify. )

The back wall will take a while but we cannot start until we have a discussion with county planning because the end of a flood management berm is on our property. We want the wall just inside the property line and that would prevent access to the last 10-20 feet of the berm. We need to learn if that would be allowed. (I am hoping so as we are willing to build the wall so that it would act just like the berm. We will put in water flow access just the way they specify.)


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## Annalog

DH found a 7.5' x 13' chain link dog kennel kit to match the one we used for the first chicken pen. This will be much better than the 6' x 10' kennels that carried by Home Depot and Lowe's. Yeah! However, this meant that I spent yesterday clearing more ground for the base area. I will need to re-lay the pavers as well.

Mr. Milquetoast was free-ranging most of yesterday. He was well behaved around visitors; he tended to stay either close to the hens or in his own pen. One of the visitors, a 7 year old boy, had fun feeding scratch grain, a few seeds at a time, to the hens. He helped gather eggs and kept watch hoping to see a egg being laid. However, the hens had more patience than he did.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> DH found a 7.5' x 13' chain link dog kennel kit to match the one we used for the first chicken pen. This will be much better than the 6' x 10' kennels that carried by Home Depot and Lowe's. Yeah! However, this meant that I spent yesterday clearing more ground for the base area. I will need to re-lay the pavers as well.
> 
> Mr. Milquetoast was free-ranging most of yesterday. He was well behaved around visitors; he tended to stay either close to the hens or in his own pen. One of the visitors, a 7 year old boy, had fun feeding scratch grain, a few seeds at a time, to the hens. He helped gather eggs and kept watch hoping to see a egg being laid. However, the hens had more patience than he did.


A watched hen never lays!!!


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> A watched hen never lays!!!




The only eggs I saw laid by hens was when I was in the coop for other reasons.


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## Annalog

Double bump today.

The 10 hens each laid an egg so 10 eggs for today. 

Mr. Milquetoast learned how to exit the garden. He learned how to get to the other side of the hen pen. He also explored the back of our house. But the best part was that Mr. Milquetoast asked me to pick him up three different times to pet him. He also flew up to my shoulder when I was sitting down. He is such a sweetheart.


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## tsilver

Never having had experience with animals of any kind or living on a farm, I was curious about this thread.  What in the world could be interesting about chickens and poultry, I thought.  To my surprise, I found this thread quite interesting and entertaining and it surprised me that a chicken or rooster could have enough personality to be given a name like Mr. Milquetoast.  Fascinating!


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## Annalog

Terry, I am glad you found this thread worth reading!

Last night in KB chat, I told about Mr. Milquetoast flying up to my shoulder. (He really jumped as he is too large to fly well.) After I said that he was too big  to be a parrot, two different people suggested pirate names for me. One name was "Long John Anna" which led to thoughts of me with an eye patch while wearing long red thermal underwear. The other name was "Long Anna Silver". Would that make us related? 

This morning Mr. Milquetoast got out when I brought his food and water. I let him stay out while I took care of my other chicken care tasks. When I picked him up to put him back in his pen for the day, he cried. (OK, he made a quiet sound that let me know how sad he was and how much he wanted to flirt with the hens.) I am determined that we will get the fencing done around the yard so that he can be outside safely when I am not outside with him.

Of the 15 roosters from the original 25 chicks, only two roosters had enough personality for names (One of the six New Hampshires and one of the nine Barred Plymouth Rocks). Mr. Milquetoast was the one who always seemed to look to me to protect him from the other roosters. I think he still acts as if I am his mother.


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## tsilver

Hi Anna

Maybe we would be chicken-in-laws?    Do you have a picture of Mr. Milquetoast?  I would love to see what the little rascal looks like.

Terry


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## Annalog

Hi Terry,
I like the idea of being chicken-in-laws.

I need to take new pictures of Mr. Milquetoast. I should also have DH take a picture of Mr. Milquetoast when he is sitting on my lap so it is clear why I think he is too big to act like a parrot. 

I also need to take pictures of the coop and pen improvements-in-progress. DH added a second chicken door to the coop but forgot to add the additional layer of masonite to act as a spacer. The door fits too tightly to open! Another weekend until I will be able to use it to let the chickens out of the coop.

Anna


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## tsilver

I'm curious Anna.  What is the meaning of "Origami Desert Willow Blossom?"  Are you Indian and is that your Indian name?


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> I'm curious Anna. What is the meaning of "Origami Desert Willow Blossom?" Are you Indian and is that your Indian name?


 "Origami Desert Willow Blossom" is not my Indian name but it would make a good one.  My main genetic heritage is German and Dutch from my mother's side of the family and Welsh and English from my father's side of the family. However my father's great grandmother was Cherokee and my two granddaughters are members of the Tohono O'odham Nation.

The Desert Willow (Chilopsis linearis) is one of my favorite trees and the flower is one of my favorite flowers. While the drooping shape and leaves resemble that of a willow, it is in the catalpa family instead.

While I have been folding origami models from books since I was 9, and folding paper cups, paper airplanes, and gum wrapper chains even earlier, the flower in my avatar is the first representational origami model that I designed from scratch. The flower is a simplified version as it has four petals and the real one has five.









I posted the above photo in the show off your Avatar thread where I have a longer description and a link to more images of my origami work.

I also posted photos on the What do we look like, anyway? thread of me wearing two of the origami outfits I designed from an origami module that I designed.

Finally, to stay on topic , I modified a fold from an origami box to fold the metal mesh (hardware cloth) into a very large "box" to prevent rodents from digging into the chicken pen but to allow the chickens to dig "dust bath" areas in the pen.


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## CaitLondon

My mother-in-law raised the best tasting chickens by making sure they had plenty of lettuce and greens. They were just different tasting than grocery store's.

Never been fascinated with chickens as I had to clean out the coop when younger.


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## Annalog

I took these photos after I got home from work today. DH wasn't going to get home until after the sun set. Mr. Milquetoast was calm enough for me to take the photos of us while I held the camera.
















Mr. Milquetoast standing on my shoulder. He is really too big to act like a parrot. ;-)
















Mr. Milquetoast at the pen gate. For size comparison, the cement block behind him is 16 inches high (or long) and 8 inches by 8 inches on the end. The red cement pavers are 1 foot square. One of the young cockerels, almost 4 months old, is standing in the coop door. Mr. Milquetoast is almost 11 months old.
















Mr. Milquetoast standing on my lap while I am sitting on a block. His spurs are growing.























Mr. Milquetoast strutting and dancing for the hens. He loves to watch them. The hens watch as well.
















Preparing the area for the second chicken pen. The second chicken door is almost done. It still needs painting and a handle. The temporary planter is currently being used as a compost bin but will be removed when we closer to finishing the chicken moat.































There are a couple perches inside the rooster retreat. Unless it is cold, rainy, or very windy, Mr. Milquetoast likes to sleep on top of the shelter. He is still below both a shade cloth and a wire roof; he is safe from predators. While there is a ladder he can use at the back, Mr. Milquetoast usually jumps the first 4 feet and flies the last foot to get to the top of the shelter.































He likes being petted and also scratched under his feathers.































Close ups


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## Annalog

CaitLondon said:


> My mother-in-law raised the best tasting chickens by making sure they had plenty of lettuce and greens. They were just different tasting than grocery store's.
> 
> Never been fascinated with chickens as I had to clean out the coop when younger.


Hi Cait. I give my chickens plenty of greens, fruits, and vegetables as well. It makes for great tasting eggs. Another difference in the taste between grocery store chicken and those raised in home flocks, is that the chickens get more exercise.

Fortunately it is dry here and it is relatively easy to keep the coop fairly nice. However, like other birds, chickens will leave their droppings wherever they happen to be.


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## tsilver

I agree that Mr. Milquetoast is too big for a normal sized pirate.  Can chickens see things directly in front of them?  Their eyes seem to be placed for side-seeing rather than frontal seeing.
Anna, you look like a friend of mine named Susan who lives in California.


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## Annalog

I think that chickens can see directly in front of them because they have no trouble picking up seeds on the ground with their beak and I do not see them look to the side before pecking at a seed or a bug. Instead they will go straight for it. Also, I get the impression that Mr. Milquetoast and the other chickens will stare directly at their planned landing spot before jumping up to it. On the other hand, they seem to prefer looking at distant objects with just one eye at a time. Therefore, I suspect that chickens have a very narrow field immediately before them that they can see with both eyes but that most of their field of vision is monocular.

ETA Correction: I was watching the chickens peck grain from the ground and saw that they seem to peck in one direction and then back in the other direction. It could be that they are looking first to one side and then the other instead of directly where they are pecking. While I can see both eyes of a chicken when I look at them from directly in front of them, it is certainly possible that they do not have any overlap in field of vision between their eyes.

Funny that you should mention that I look like your friend Susan. I apparently have a doppelganger that has lived in Tucson, AZ. My doppelganger's grandson thought I was his grandmother. (I learned from his dad that the little boy could not figure out why I was playing with two little girls in a McD play area and was ignoring him.) Several years ago, my doppelganger drove a car like mine and had a passenger in the car that looked like my husband. My mom honked and waved to my doppelganger at a traffic signal on a day when I was not on that side of Tucson. People have stopped me to ask why I did not say hi to them and then realized that I was someone else. I would like to meet my doppelganger to see how much we really look like each other.


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## prairiesky

Your Mr. Milquetoast is a very handsome bird.  No wonder the hens love him.  He is magnificent!


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## Annalog

Thank you, Prairiesky.


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## Annalog

If what I found at http://animalbehaviour.net/JudithKBlackshaw/Chapter3f.htm is correct, then my first impression about how chickens see was correct. According to that page:


> Chickens have panoramic vision of about 300°, and possible binocular vision of 26°.


I found some sites that confirmed the above and others that said that chickens were like pigeons and had no binocular vision or depth perception.

Then I found the following from _Storeys Guide to Raising Chickens_:


> The eyes on the sides of a chicken's head give it a larger range of peripheral vision but a smaller range of binocular vision, compared to birds and other creatures (including humans) with eyes at the front, who focus on objects with both eyes. By contrast, a chicken has a right-eye system and a left-eye system, each with different and complementary capabilities.
> The right-eye system works best for activities requiring recognition, such as identifying items of food. the left-eye system works best for activities involving depth perception, which is why a chicken watching an approaching hawk is likely to peer warily at the raptor out of its left eye.


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## tsilver

Complex little creatures aren't they?  By the way, Anna, let's see if there are any similarities between you and my friend Susan (who might be your doppleganger     Susan was adopted; has retired from government work (Social Security Admin), was married three times, has had three sons plus two stepsons and a stepdaughter; her husband's name is Patrick and is called Pat.  Susan and Pat may have been in Arizona on one of their frequent travels.

Terry


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Complex little creatures aren't they? By the way, Anna, let's see if there are any similarities between you and my friend Susan (who might be your doppelganger  Susan was adopted; has retired from government work (Social Security Admin), was married three times, has had three sons plus two stepsons and a stepdaughter; her husband's name is Patrick and is called Pat. Susan and Pat may have been in Arizona on one of their frequent travels.
> 
> Terry


Hi Terry. I don't see many similarities. I was not adopted; I am still working and have never worked for the government; I only married once and am still married; I have one daughter and no sons. My Tucson doppelganger seems to have lived in Tucson for many years and worked as a nurse for at least part of that time. I suppose it is possible that I have had several doppelgangers over the years and that Susan is the current incarnation of my doppelganger.


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## Annalog

Luvmy4brats said:


> Hatchback??


Today the chicken coop has graduated from a two-door coop (coupe) to a three-door coop (hatchback).  The second chicken door still needs painting but it now has a handle and can be opened and closed.

Although we do not yet have the second pen in place, I opened the second chicken door. Most of the hens were in the pen and saw me throw scratch on the ground by the other door. Five of the hens figured out that they needed to go back into the coop and come out the other door. The rest stayed in the pen and hoped I would throw scratch through the chain link fencing. (I am softhearted and eventually did.  ) Since Mr. Milquetoast was also outside, he and the hens got to visit. Eventually I put Mr. Milquetoast back in his pen so that I could get the hens to go back into the coop. Three went in easily but I had to encourage the last two.


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## Amy Corwin

Hi!
We used to raise chickens -- mostly Araucanas -- but over the years, the foxes and possums found ways into the coop and the last one died a few months ago.
We're now looking at moving the coop somewhere else, because it backed up to the woods (which back up to a swamp) and it was a constant fight to keep the critters out. I can't tell you how many times I found some old rat snake bulging with eggs.

For a while, when I heard a squawk in the coop at night, I'd just go out with our lab. If it was a possum, the lab learned to just pick up the possum by the scruff, carry it through the gate, and drop it in the woods. Problem solved for the night.  They rarely returned (at least that night).

Anyway, we want to move the coop into a place that gets more sun and fewer critters and start again. I really liked the Araucanas, although we had quite a mixture of different chickens for a while including some Rhode Island Reds and tiny Japanese bantams.

Does anyone else have problems with critters raiding the coop?
Does anyone have a "henspa"? That's one of those mobile pens and I've been wondering if that might be the solution to our problem, since we could move it to safer locations when necessary.


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## Annalog

Hi Amy, since I have not yet had experience with mobile pens and predators, I have changed the title of the thread to hopefully attract answers. 

I know that I have seen various examples of mobile pens and chicken tractors that seem to protect the chickens from predators but many do not. I think the more protective ones have wire floors, sturdy wire and/or wood sides, and a raised floor shelter for the chickens where they can be closed in at night. 

It was loss of chickens to coyotes in my childhood that led me to essentially creating a chicken fortress. 

Here's hoping for additional answers!

Anna


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## MariaESchneider

My gram had problems with skunks (getting the eggs) and coyotes.  But generally, having cinderblocks at the bottom and chicken wire fencing kept things out (The cinderblocks were so the skunks couldn't dig under).  Partially buried cinderblocks is better than just set ones.  Bricks would probably work as well.

In Texas those mobile pens are very popular.  It's what I would get if I could have chickens...

Maria


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## Amy Corwin

Thanks--that's good to know re: the mobile pens. We might end up getting one of those. Part of the problem is that critters found the pen and since it never moved, they just kept coming back to the same spots and searching for weaknesses.

We used chicken wire and wood to build our pen (it was a super-deluxe condo) but we found that critters dug up under the back wall of the pen, even though we buried the wire. Didn't bury it deep enough, I guess. And of course snakes go right through the chicken wire.

We've got coyotes now, too. This is gross, but we recently lost one of our dogs and buried her. About a week later we went back and there was only a deep hole. Couldn't even find a tuft of hair to rebury. Made us very sad. I can't believe coyotes would dig that deeply (we buried her about 4 feet down) and do that, but there you are.


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## Amy Corwin

Here is a picture of our rooster which I took about this time last year (before he passed away).

He roamed the backyard at will since it was fenced and with the dogs, he was safer there than letting him into the yard/woods.


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## Annalog

Amy, what a beautiful rooster in a wonderful backyard! I can see how the woods would provide cover for predators.

You might want to consider small mesh (1 inch or 1/2 inch depending on the size of the snakes) welded wire (hardware cloth) to keep out the snakes. It is also stronger than chicken wire. Chicken wire often will not keep out determined predators as it is not as stable and the openings can be made larger or the wire moved by diggers. (We had gophers move 1 inch chicken wire that we had buried 3 feet underground to protect our garden. It did not stop them. However the hardware cloth did stop them.) 

I have read that when it is not possible to dig deep enough to bury the wire, it sometimes works to have the wire go out along the ground a couple feet or more (like a skirt) and then either cover it with a few inches of dirt or blocks. Supposedly most digging animals will try to dig near the fence. When they find horizontal wire, they might back up a foot and try again but give up if they keep hitting wire.


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## Annalog

Amy, were you thinking of having the mobile pen in your fenced backyard or in the unfenced part of your yard?


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## Amy Corwin

Hi!
I was thinking that if we bought (or made) a mobile henhouse (aka Chicken Tractor) that I could move it both into the yard and into a section of our yard by our pond. We have about an acre fenced in where the dogs roam--and they are well behaved and don't bother chickens. And we have a small section of a grassy area by our catfish pond which would benefit from chickens .

So I was thinking if I had a mobile henhouse, I could move it around.

We originally built the chicken condo behind the house to keep it out of sight, but we've since decided that was a bad move because that's where the woods start. We have about 20 acres, only 3 acres are cleared where the house, fenced yard, and catfish pond are. The rest is behind the house and our acres blend into a swamp, so you can imagine....

It's been a challenge, but it took about 5 years before the critters finally figured out ways to get into the coop. We've had the coop for about 15 years now, so it was only the last 10 years that we had serious problems. that's why I let the chicken population decline--so we could decide if we needed to move it, where to move it to, and what to do about it in general. I miss my chickens though. So I want to get started again.


----------



## Annalog

Hi Amy,
I think that sounds like a very good idea, especially as it is possible to buy or make mobile henhouses that are good looking. While it does not seem as if you are in an urban setting, the urban chicken coops and chicken tractors have provided examples that look great.

Last night I started searching for chicken tractors that protect the hens from predators but I was interupted while I was on the first site. However, that site suggested that at least one corner, preferably two, should have solid sides as chickens will run to the corners and predators can reach through chicken wire or chain link fencing to catch and kill the chickens. The example given was for raccoons but I would think that other predators could do the same. I do know that my chickens always seem to gather in the corners when they panic.

Soon I need to build at least one more pen that I plan to make as a chicken tractor. I need another pen so that I can separate the young cockerels from the hens.

On a different note, as of this morning, all of my chickens finally have names.

*Mr. Milquetoast* is the Barred Plymouth Rock rooster; he has a mild temperament.
*Thing 1* and *Thing 2* are the two New Hampshire cockerels; they tend to stick together and get into trouble.
*Ginger*, *Cinnamon*, *Clove* and *Nutmeg*, the Pumpkin Pie Spice Girls, are the four Easter Eggers (ordered as Ameraucanas). Ginger was one of the first chicks named due to her color and attitude.
*Rosemary* (the lone Barred Plymouth Rock hen), *Thyme* (the New Hampshire hen that was broody last winter), *Sage* and *Parsley* (also New Hampshire hens) are the Scarborough Fair Spice Girls. Rosemary was the other chick named early due to the white spots that looked like ear rings and because I was certain that she was going to be a hen.
*Saffron* is a New Hampshire hen I named early as she was "mellow yellow".
*Cumin* is the remaining New Hampshire hen.
I hope to get photos of each chicken so that I can post each with their name. I only made a small change in our original chicken naming plans. According to plan, the hens are all named after spices. The original plan for roosters intended to be kept was to name them after roosters or chickens from TV or movies (Rocky, Fowler, *Lenin/Lennon*, etc.). I have expanded that to include book and cartoon characters. Chickens with uncertain status will continue to have generic food names such as Nugget, Tender or Fillet.


----------



## tsilver

Anna, I'm looking forward to pictures of your named chickens to see if I can spot differences. To me, chickens of the same breed all look the same--at least at this time. As I become more familiar with chickens, maybe I will see differences.  

Terry


----------



## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Anna, I'm looking forward to pictures of your named chickens to see if I can spot differences. To me, chickens of the same breed all look the same--at least at this time. As I become more familiar with chickens, maybe I will see differences.
> 
> Terry


I think it depends on the breed and the specific chickens. Because the New Hampshire chickens look so much alike, I could not name them until I saw the differences in the specific hens. Since I now only have one Barred Plymouth Rock hen and one rooster, those two are easy. The two young cockerels, Thing 1 and Thing 2 are currently easy but may become more difficult as they get older and achieve their final feather coloring. Since the Easter Eggers are not purebred examples of their breed, they are a bit easier as they do not look as much alike.

It is going to be interesting to try to get pictures that will let me highlight the differences in the chickens but that will be my goal for the evenings and next weekend.


----------



## Annalog

It is not easy to take portrait pictures of chickens! As soon as I am ready to take the picture, the chicken moves! I have several pictures that are either blurry or where the chicken has moved out of the frame.

I finally posted and labeled the photos on my Facebook page. However, since it is late, I will only post the photos of the Pumpkin Pie Spice Girls here tonight. I will post the others later.














































*Clove* is one on the Easter Eggers with many of the characteristics of the Ameraucanas except for her color pattern. In addition, the feathers on the back of her head remind me of a ducktail hairdo.































*Nutmeg* looks a lot like Clove but without the prominent ducktail and with a slightly different comb.































*Cinnamon* is the only one of the Easter Eggers without a significant beard. She also does not have spots on her chest as Clove and Nutmeg do. The last photo was supposed to be a front view of her face but she ducked! (EDIT - I was so tired last night that I did not see that I typed Nutmeg instead of Cinnamon. Cinnamon is the Easter Egger without a beard or muff.)
















I believe *Ginger* is a Black Gold Easter Egger, another non official color for Ameraucanas. She is bearded. She is also the shyest of all of the chickens. Sage is with Ginger in the second picture.

All four of the Easter Eggers have slate colored legs and lay green or blue eggs. I am not sure which hen lays which color/shape of eggs but one lays a large pale blue egg, one lays a large green egg, one lays a green egg that is long but narrow, and one lays a small green egg.


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## tsilver

I've been studying the pictures and on close inspection I do see differences.  I can understand that differences will be more obvious when you deal with them every day and get to know their individual personalities.  Great pictures Anna.


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> I've been studying the pictures and on close inspection I do see differences. I can understand that differences will be more obvious when you deal with them every day and get to know their individual personalities. Great pictures Anna.


Thanks, Terry. I posted the pictures of the Easter Eggers first as it is easier to see the differences between them. It is definitely more difficult to distinguish the chickens from still photos than from seeing them in person. Their individual personalities and behaviors play a large part for me in identifying each chicken. For example, Saffron is the most friendly of the hens and comes running. Thing 1 always jumps up on a perch, hoping I will feed him there, when I feed the chickens in the coop. Rosemary is always first out of the coop when I open the door to the pen.

There are pairs of New Hampshire hens where I am not always sure from photos which hen is which but I can always identify when I see them in person. Saffron and Cumin both have small combs but only Saffron has black tips on the feathers at the base of her neck. Sage and Parsley both have large combs but with different shapes. Sage's comb bends more and Parsley's comb stands up more but that is not always apparent in the photos.

I hope to post the rest of the pictures this evening.


----------



## geoffthomas

Anna,
Just a quick note to let you know that I follow the thread.
As I have nothing to add, I don't post.
But I wanted to let you know that I enjoy this thread very much.
Thank you for sharing with us.

Just sayin......


----------



## MariaESchneider

Amy Corwin said:


> Here is a picture of our rooster which I took about this time last year (before he passed away).
> 
> He roamed the backyard at will since it was fenced and with the dogs, he was safer there than letting him into the yard/woods.


GORGEOUS!!!


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## Annalog

You are very welcome, Geoff. Your post caused me to see that I had mistyped the name of one of the Pumpkin Pie Spice Girls so I have corrected that in the post above.

Thing 1 and Thing 2 are the two surviving chickens of the three chicks that hatched in mid December. They look and act like awkward teenages as they are just four months old. Both are cockerels (young roosters). I have not heard either one crow yet but Thing 2 definitely is the more mature of the two. One way to identify that they are male is that the feathers on their necks have pointed ends and are shiny with brighter colors. Hens would have rounded ends on their feathers.































Thing 1 is timid around the other chickens and is on the bottom of the pecking order. Only a couple of the feathers at the base of his neck have black edging. It is difficult to tell from the photos, but the color of his comb and wattles is currently less red and more orange that of Thing 2.































Thing 2 has black edging on the edges of his cape feathers that is part of the standard for the New Hampshire breed. His comb and wattles are redder although not as large and red as they will be when he is older.


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## Annalog

Amy Corwin said:


> Here is a picture of our rooster which I took about this time last year (before he passed away).
> 
> He roamed the backyard at will since it was fenced and with the dogs, he was safer there than letting him into the yard/woods.





MariaESchneider said:


> GORGEOUS!!!


I agree!!!

Amy, was he a Faverolle? Another breed?


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## Annalog

The Scarborough Fair Spice Girls are Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme. Rosemary is the leader as she is nearly always the first one out of the coop in the morning. She is also easy to identify as she is the only Barred Plymouth Rock hen.
















*Rosemary* is easy to identify.  Some chickens have earlobes that are flat against their head while other chickens have earlobes that stick out or hang down. In the first picture, Rosemary's ear is the grey circular area to the right of her eye. Just to the right and below that is her earlobe. Hers stick out and hang down. It is also easy to see in the first picture that her comb is not flat but in the second picture it is difficult to see that.














































*Parsley* has a comb that large with a nearly circular lobe in the back with two thinner lobes in front with a gap before the rest. Her comb has a center section that leans to the left while the front and back lean to the right.
















*Sage* currently has a small bald spot at the back of her comb. Her comb is very wavy.














































*Thyme* is the hen that was broody in November and December. So far she is the only hen who took the time to hatch eggs and raise chicks. Her comb is also large but mostly flat and leans far to the right. She has almost no black on her neck and cape feathers. The last picture is of Parsley and Thyme.


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## Annalog

The last two Spice Girls are Saffron and Cumin. Both of these hens have small combs even though they are laying eggs. Combs and wattles are redder and larger when the hen reaches maturity and starts laying eggs. When they moult and stop laying eggs for a while, their combs will shrink and become less red. However I know that all of my hens are laying eggs as some days I have six brown eggs from six brown egg laying hens and some days I have 4 green/blue eggs from the four Easter Eggers.














































*Saffron* has black edging on her cape feathers. It is difficult to see in these photos as the feather ends are frayed. The hens should moult soon.































*Cumin* does not have black edging on her cape feathers. Unfortunately these photos do not illustrate that. The last picture shows Mr. Milquetoast in the pen with some of the hens.


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## tsilver

Thanks Anna for showing all the differences.  It's amazing that when you're unfamiliar with chickens, you can't tell them apart.  It makes me think of people who say they can't tell people of other races apart.  I've heard whites say they can't tell Chinese or African people apart and those people saying all whites look alike.  When they get to know each other, they see the individual differences and not just the skin color.


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## Annalog

Hi Terry. You are very welcome. I think it is very similar and also interesting on how our brains do so much that we are are not conscious of. 

I did not understand "they all look alike" until the time when my daughter asked me to pick up her daughter, my granddaughter, from a new daycare. At that time my GD was about 18 months old and I had not seen her for a few weeks. I arrived at the daycare and was identifying myself. The person pointed to a group of young children playing together and I realized that I could not identify my own granddaughter. They all looked alike! I was beginning to panic when my GD noticed me. She stood up and ran to me with her arms outstretched and calling, "Grandmommy!" I was saved from the embarrassment of not bring able to recognize my own granddaughter! I spent the rest of the day trying to memorize as many features and characteristics of her face that I could.


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## Annalog

I do not remember where I read it but there have been studies of chickens and their abilities to identify other chickens. I think they found that chickens could identify around 20-25 individuals as part of their flock and maybe another 25 as neighbors. Apparently the rest remained as strangers. I wonder if the chickens thought that after flock and neighbors, "They all look alike?"


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## Annalog

J.M. Pierce said:


> My seven year old son just joined 4-H and guess what he wants to do? Raise chickens! Yeah for me...er...uh...I mean him! I told him I would build him his own coop in the spring and then we'd order some chicks (whatever kind he wants). I also told him that he would be responsible for feeding,watering, cleaning and anything else that might need to be done. We are very excited for spring!


J.M., Is it spring yet where you are? Is your son's 4-H project still raising chickens? I was thinking about 4-H projects when I went to the Pima County Fair a week or so ago.


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## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Looks like it is a cycle. Going back to old days when there were no poultry forms. Organic gardening and growing fruits/veg at home may be similar thing.


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## Annalog

*DrDln* (dr.s.dhillon) said:


> Looks like it is a cycle. Going back to old days when there were no poultry forms. Organic gardening and growing fruits/veg at home may be similar thing.


We had a small flock of chickens at home when I was in Jr. High/High School. It took me years after moving away from home to get used to "store eggs." It has taken years to get to a position where I could have my own chickens.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, I finally got caught up with your thread!  Been on vacation, so I'm glad to read that everyone is doing well!  Mr. Milquetoast is sure handsome!


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## Annalog

Thanks, Carol! I will pass the complement on to Mr. Milquetoast. 

My mom bought a small watermelon recently that was a bit woody inside. She gave it to me and I gave it to the chickens in the morning (along with carrot peels, vegetable stems, etc.) before going to work. When I returned home, all that was left was thin sections of the watermelon rind. Another morning I gave them some leftover macaroni and cheese (whole grain shells, milk, cheese). I suspect it was completely gone before I arrived at work. When the chickens see me enter the pen with either a plastic bag or a metal pan, they come running even faster than when they see me carrying the scratch bucket. They certainly love their treats!


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## MeiLinMiranda

Chickens LOVE watermelon! Dang I miss my chooks. We had an extra lot and kept ours in a tractor, but when we sold our lot we gave 'em away.  I miss them enough that I may even break down and build a coop. I hate coops because I'm not good at cleaning 'em. That's what was nice about the tractor: No cleaning!


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## Annalog

MeiLinMiranda said:


> Chickens LOVE watermelon! Dang I miss my chooks. We had an extra lot and kept ours in a tractor, but when we sold our lot we gave 'em away.  I miss them enough that I may even break down and build a coop. I hate coops because I'm not good at cleaning 'em. That's what was nice about the tractor: No cleaning!


I wish I could have stayed to watch them eat the watermelon. It is great to see them happy and excited.

I am very glad for the features and conditions that make my coop easy to keep clean. I used as much plastic and vinyl as possible (vinyl flooring and nesting boxes made of pvc pipe instead of wood). All the wood I used have two coats of paint. Cement blocks are used as steps and chicken tables. I use the "deep litter" method with wood shavings so I only need to clean the coop 2 or 3 times a year (beginning of warm weather, after end of summer rainy season, beginning of fall). The rest of the time I am either adding clean shavings to the top of the litter, stirring the litter with a small plastic rake to fluff it up, or sprinkling some scratch on the litter so that the chickens stir it and keep it fluffy, dry, and nearly odor free.  I have no dropping boards or pits to clean.    The dry climate here helps as well as it keeps the droppings dry. My biggest problem is the dust that accumulates. (I am tempted to get a leaf blower to blow the dust out of the coop. )


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Sorry about rooster...
> 
> That composting is a lot of work, but it will be worth it. My tomato plants are HUGE--and they are living off of turkey compost.  It's the way to go.
> 
> I just wish the tomatoes would HURRY up.
> 
> If I get chickens I want a mobile pen with the bottom that is a drop door. That way you wheel the pen to the area you want and dump the litter...I wonder if I can send you picture. Maybe you could make that your third pen!


Hi Maria, how are the tomatoes doing? Have you started harvesting them?

Do you still have a picture of the mobile pen with the drop floor? If so, please either post it or send it to me. DH and I are beginning to see an end to the fencing work. In addition, one of the two young cockerels is beginning to make a nuisance of himself with the hens. I am tempted to make him a mobile pen guinea pig as soon as the perimeter fencing is complete.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Hi Maria, how are the tomatoes doing? Have you started harvesting them?
> 
> Do you still have a picture of the mobile pen with the drop floor? If so, please either post it or send it to me. DH and I are beginning to see an end to the fencing work. In addition, one of the two young cockerels is beginning to make a nuisance of himself with the hens. I am tempted to make him a mobile pen guinea pig as soon as the perimeter fencing is complete.


Picked the first roma and some of the Juliets (grape sized tomato). Slim pickings but they are pickins!!!! I ate the roma today for lunch even though they are much better in salsas and pasta. Two more will be ripe tomorrow and in about a week....the real ones should be turning!!! I check them 4 times a day...

I have the picture, but I don't know how to upload it! Let me see if I can find a link to the ad where I got the picture in the first place. If not, I will try to upload. I think I figured it out once. But maybe not...


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## MariaESchneider

I think to make pictures work, I have to upload them to somewhere and link?

At any rate, the two pictures I have are of a standard mobile chicken coop.  The one I liked better had the roost part up off the ground so that you could open a door underneath and basically "dump" the chicken poop/shavings.  I don't have a picture of that one, which would be the most useful.  The guy who used to make them apparently isn't selling them at the moment.  But it was a chicken coop on wheels about as tall as me--instead of the walls going all the way to the ground all way way around, it was a coop on stilts, basically.  The front must have opened down so the chickens could climb in it and then close at night.  And the "floor" at least in the back part was a door as well that could swing down to empty the shavings.  

Argh.  Maybe I need to draw it...


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> I think to make pictures work, I have to upload them to somewhere and link?
> 
> At any rate, the two pictures I have are of a standard mobile chicken coop. The one I liked better had the roost part up off the ground so that you could open a door underneath and basically "dump" the chicken poop/shavings. I don't have a picture of that one, which would be the most useful. The guy who used to make them apparently isn't selling them at the moment. But it was a chicken coop on wheels about as tall as me--instead of the walls going all the way to the ground all way way around, it was a coop on stilts, basically. The front must have opened down so the chickens could climb in it and then close at night. And the "floor" at least in the back part was a door as well that could swing down to empty the shavings.
> 
> Argh. Maybe I need to draw it...


Hi Maria, you don't need to draw it as your description is perfect! I have the picture uploaded now in my mind.  Thanks!

In answer to the picture question: Yes, the pictures need to be somewhere on the Web so that the link can be put inside the img tags.


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Picked the first roma and some of the Juliets (grape sized tomato). Slim pickings but they are pickins!!!! I ate the roma today for lunch even though they are much better in salsas and pasta. Two more will be ripe tomorrow and in about a week....the real ones should be turning!!! I check them 4 times a day...


Yummy!


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## Annalog

Bump! 10 eggs from 10 hens today and they laid 8 eggs yesterday. Good girls!


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## MariaESchneider

Me and my tomatoes are jealous!

Oh, good, I'm glad you can picture it.  The thing I liked about it was that the part where the chickens could roost could be rolled to a compost area (or just moved around so that you could empty the shavings in different spots.)  The thing about grandma's coop was that it had to be shoveled out.  Having done the job a few times, I was pretty enamored of the idea of just unlatching a panel and letting the shavings fall.  Latch it back up and put in fresh shavings (I'm not sure how that was done--from the front?  Maybe the top opened too!) and they could roost away.

I would lock any latches.  Racoons can unlatch simple latches and for that matter so could a fox (although foxes aren't as good at climbing).  So you'd have to make sure only humans had the key...

We'll be having chicken salad sandwiches with fresh garden lettuce, tomatoes and onions!  (Celery is store bought.  Pecans were from Auntie's yield last year.)  Shh.  Don't tell the chickens.


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## Annalog

I am jealous of your tomatoes and lettuce.! I won't tell the chickens as they would want to eat it all (


Spoiler



including the chicken salad sandwiches 


)!

With my current coop arrangement, I need to scoop the litter into tubs and carry it through both the inner and outer doorways. Last time that took over a dozen trips. I am glad that I don't need to do that more than two or three times a year. Mobile pens with easy cleanout arrangements are much easier.

I will make sure that any latching mechanisms are human-operable only.


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## J.M Pierce

Hey there! I haven't been around for a while and thought I'd stop in. Our flock is laying like crazy right now. We've added some Black Sex Link to the group and look forward to watching them grow. My son is now in 4-H and we are in the middle of building him his own coop. Lot's of fun! I'll try to get some pics of the two roosters we raised over winter. They are Cornish x Auracana's and are GIGANTIC and beautiful!


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## J.M Pierce

I just picked up some Silver Laced Wyandotte chicks!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so excited!


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## Carol Hanrahan

Visiting this thread to get my usual dosage of chicken envy!


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## Annalog

J.M., New chicks, new roosters, and new coop! Wow! I am looking forward to hearing how your son's 4-H project goes. Will you be posting pictures of his coop as well as of the roosters and the new chicks? I am excited for you. They sound beautiful.


----------



## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> J.M., New chicks, new roosters, and new coop! Wow! I am looking forward to hearing how your son's 4-H project goes. Will you be posting pictures of his coop as well as of the roosters and the new chicks? I am excited for you. They sound beautiful.


I will absolutely post pics! The structure itself is not much to look at, but I am proud of it for the fact that we didn't spend a dime on it except for the paint (not painted yet). We recycled a bunch of wood that had been laying around in the garage, wood shed, etc. We even found a bi-fold door in the rafters of the garage! I told my son that we would paint his coop white and then he could paint pictures on the walls. It's been fun for the two of us to work on this together! Next year we'll rework the main coop (it's getting a little old and rickety). Love is definitely in the air in the hen house, too. All of my poor hens are bald backed from the roosters affection! I've got to admit that I hate seeing them that way, but know that it's a natural thing and I'll deal with it.

Take care!

J.M.


----------



## Annalog

J.M., I am definitely looking forward to pictures of a coop built of all recycled materials (except for paint)!

Any tips for helping hens with bald backs would be appreciated! Four of my hens have bald backs, three are thinning, and three are pretty good at avoiding the roosters. I tried aprons on some of the hens earlier but it just seemed to cause the other hens to pick on the hens wearing aprons. Do I need to make aprons for all the hens or do you have some other suggestions?

Take care!
Anna


----------



## J.M Pierce

Well, it was a B.E.A.UTIFUL day here in Kansas, so I took some pics.

To answer your question, Anna, I'm not sure you can avoid the bald backs this time of year. It is just the result of overly amorous roosters. If you have multiple roosters, as I do, it compounds the problem. For my girls, the minute one rooster jumps on, the other two immediately follow. Like I said, it drives me nuts, but I just have to learn to deal with it. It usually mellows out in a month or so.

Now for the pics!

This is a 75% Auracana/25% Cornish. Check out the breasts on these GIANTS. I did this cross intentionally to create a big meat chicken that laid big green eggs. So far, the project is looking good! This is rooster #1 from the cross. My daughter calls him Tot.









This is a sibling to the rooster above. I LOVE THE COLOR ON THIS ROOSTER! There are a ton of subtle markings. My son calls him Daffy.









This is a rooster that we inherited last fall. He is a 50% Red Leghorn and 50% Auracana. I call him Curly. (Note the hen with the crowned comb in the background)









This is the hen in the background of the pic above. She is a "Buttercup". I've never seen another one, but her comb is really neat. She's getting older, but still looks nice.









Here's a pic of a portion of the flock. I have a lot of Auracana and Auracana cross hens. I love the big green eggs and they lay a lot of them. Note the black hen in the center. She is an OLD Auracana that is the last surviving member of my original group of chickens. Believe it or not, she has spurs that are as long or longer than any of my three roosters. For the first year of her adult life, I thought she was a rooster. It wasn't until I watched her get mated, and then subsequently sitting on eggs, that I realized. Crazy.









Our new Black Sex Link group of kids. They didn't sit still very well. The Silver Laced Wyandotte Chicks were still a little stressed from the move so I opted not to take any pics of them. Will get some soon though.









And last is Gage standing in front of his new hen house. It turned out well.


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## Annalog

J.M., if the bald backs are inevitable, then I am glad I have shade cloth over the pen. Otherwise I would need to put sunscreen on my hens. (I am going to need to sew seven more aprons so that I can put one on each hen. Maybe if they are each wearing an apron then they will leave the aprons alone.)

Great pictures! Tot, Daffy, and Curly are good looking roosters. I saw a couple Sicilian Buttercup chickens when I went to the county fair a few weeks ago. Your Buttercup hen has a great comb. What a lucky flock to have so much greenery! The grass and other plants here have only started getting green in the last couple weeks; most of the ground is still plain dirt.

Gage looks proud of his new hen house and rightly so!


----------



## Annalog

We had a busy weekend. Yesterday DH and helpers stretched the 70 foot section of 6 foot chain link fencing on the northwest side of our acre. The two front 70 foot sections of 4 foot fencing across the middle (separating the 'front' from the 'back') are up but not stretched. There is an 80 foot section of 6 foot fencing where the poles are in place but not the fencing on the southeast side of the acre. After that is finished, we just have the ~200 foot temporary fencing to put in near the back (east) of the acre. (The temporary fencing will be taken down after we put a block wall across the back to block the noise from the road.)

Today DH and I put together the second chain link dog kennel kit for the chickens to use as a pen. I still need to put a roof on it before it can be used by the chickens when we are not outside with them. (Yesterday DH saw a red-tailed hawk that he thought was checking out the chickens. Today I saw four vultures circling while I was working outside. When I said "HAWK!" while looking at them, Mr. Milquetoast looked at me as if I was mispronouncing the the word and was misidentifying the threat since the birds were not hawks. )

Recent pictures:















The first picture is of the 8 eggs that were laid on Easter Day. That makes them Easter Eggs. The second is of the eggs that were laid on 28 April. Each of the hens laid an egg!























Second dog kennel to be used as an additional pen for the chickens. The frame is assembled but the chain link has not yet been attached.




























































Corner and door detail photos. DH put the door on with the hinges on the wrong side. He corrected it after I took these pictures but before we put the chainlink on. The last two pictures are of the original pen. That door does not have regular hinges. While the pens are otherwise nearly identical, the first was from FenceMaster while the second is from PetSafe. The door on the old pen is about two inches wider than the door on the new pen.























Mr. Milquetoast inspecting our work. He is a good supervisor. However, he did sneak in between the two pens while we were putting the chainlink on the new pen. We had to slide the pen over in order to get him out.













































Another difference with the two pens is that the FenceMaster kit had one large roll of chainlink while the PetSafe kit came with two smaller rolls. Indstead of following the PetSafe instructions, I decided to connect the two rolls into one as I did not want a gap in the fencing. I propped the two ends of fencing on the front and back of the box and then took a single wire from the far end of one piece and used it to weave the two pieces together. This is done by making sure the ends and extra wire match in orientation and then twisting the extra wire into the two ends. The reverse is done to shorten the chainlink fencing to make it the right size when it is stretched around the frame.























The chainlink has been added to the frame and the door has been changed to open with the hinge closer to the coop and the latch at the corner. The frame is up on blocks so that I can add the wire ties to the bottom (every third diamond) and at the top (every fifth diamond). The two ends of fencing are on each side of the door. These gaps will be covered when I put the 1/2 inch hardware cloth on the door. If I followed the instructions instead of joining the two rolls, there would be another gap at the back corner of the pen. The last picture is of the chicken door that I painted Saturday afternoon. What is wrong with this?













































After the chainlink was cut out from in front of the door, the chickens used it. The blocks under the frame have been removed but other blocks have been added to make steps for the chickens. Of course I cannot let them be in the new pen alone until I put a roof on it. The mesquite tree to the north hangs over the area where the chicken pens are. This helps shade them in the summer but I will still put shade cloth over the new pen. The last picture is a chickens eye view of the tree. (Since the picture is taken from near the ground looking up, I did not say "a birds eye view" even though chickens are birds. )


----------



## J.M Pierce

WOW! Your chickens are living uptown. Very nice!


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, J.M. While the kennel kit is new, of the chainlink we are putting in, all of the gates and more than half of the fencing was bought used. It was originally surrounding a house built in the 1920s. That house is falling apart and the Friends of the Library bought it for expansion of the local library. DH bought the fence from them and spent several weekends taking the fence down and carting it home. The old house is to be used for demolition practice after the Friends give the property to the city.

I suspect that, until we finish the perimeter fencing, my chickens might think that they are in prison instead of uptown as the hens and the two cockerels only get to be in the coop and the pen. Mr. Milquetoast is in solitary confinement in a nearby pen and only gets to free range on weekends and some evenings for good behavior. (Of course he is always good.  ) He does sometimes get to visit the hens but then the cockerals are closed into the coop. Even when the day comes when we can let them free range, they will not have access to the lush greenery your flock enjoys. It is dry and hot in the desert. At least ther is shade from the mesquite trees. I suspect that after we can let the chickens free range that none of the tumbleweed plants will grow past the green stage to the tumble stage.


----------



## J.M Pierce

It's awful nice of you to give Mr. Milquetoast conjugal visits!  I'm sure HE appreciates it, but the hens...HA!


----------



## Annalog

The hens seem to like Mr. Milquetoast and gather next to the side of the pen near him when he is outside. In addition, Mr. Milquetoast waits for the "ready" signal from a hen and does not force his attentions. On the other hand, the hens do not like Thing 1 and Thing 2 and let them know it. Unfortunately Thing 2 is a determined teen with no manners. If I cannot get separate quarters for them finished next weekend then I will probably move them to the rooster retreat and move Mr. Milquetoast in with the hens.


----------



## tsilver

Hi Anna and all chicken people. Just checking in to see how everyone is doing.  I enjoy evesdropping on all the chicken talk. 

Terry


----------



## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> The hens seem to like Mr. Milquetoast and gather next to the side of the pen near him when he is outside. In addition, Mr. Milquetoast waits for the "ready" signal from a hen and does not force his attentions. On the other hand, the hens do not like Thing 1 and Thing 2 and let them know it. Unfortunately Thing 2 is a determined teen with no manners. If I cannot get separate quarters for them finished next weekend then I will probably move them to the rooster retreat and move Mr. Milquetoast in with the hens.


That's pretty neat. Isn't it fun how each has their own personality, especially the roosters. We had a rooster named Captain Jack that was extremely tame. Gage used to hold him when he was just a little boy.



tsilver said:


> Hi Anna and all chicken people. Just checking in to see how everyone is doing. I enjoy evesdropping on all the chicken talk.
> 
> Terry


Hi Terry!


----------



## Annalog

J.M. Pierce said:


> That's pretty neat. Isn't it fun how each has their own personality, especially the roosters. We had a rooster named Captain Jack that was extremely tame. Gage used to hold him when he was just a little boy.


Yes, it is fun. I often recognize a specific chicken first from personality and habits and then confirm by appearance.



tsilver said:


> Hi Anna and all chicken people. Just checking in to see how everyone is doing. I enjoy evesdropping on all the chicken talk.
> 
> Terry


Terry, I was thinking of you yesterday while I was working on the pen. I was wearing a hat with a large brim to keep the sun from my face. I was sitting on a block adding the chainlink ties to the bottom rail when Mr. Milquetoast jumped up onto my shoulder from behind me. There I was, Long Anna Silver, with a rooster on my shoulder!

After he got into a stable position, he bent down, put his head past the hat brim, to look me in the face. After he made eye contact, he looked straight ahead to the closed chicken coop door, essentially pointing his head and neck at it. After a few seconds, he bent down to look me in the face again. He repeated this a few times. I am positive he was asking me to open the coop door so that the hens could come out. When that did not work, he jumped down and stalked away. Sometimes I think that Mr. Milquetoast thinks that I am not too bright as I often do not do what he obviously wants me to do.


----------



## tsilver

that's great that Mr. Milquetoast is able to communicate with you--or at least is trying.

Terry


----------



## Annalog

tsilver said:


> that's great that Mr. Milquetoast is able to communicate with you--or at least is trying.
> 
> Terry


He is a great communicator. Both DH and I usually understand what he wants very well. Watching him think is a lot like watching a toddler think and figure something out. Fortunately he doesn't have tantrums when he does not get his way. Once he pecked me very softly on the arm while clucking at me when I took him away from the hens earlier than he wanted. I talk to him much the same way I talk to a toddler. I know that he does not understand what I say but he does seem to get something from my tone of voice, body language, etc. He certainly seems to understand that I am trying to communicate back even if it does not always result in what he wants.


----------



## J.M Pierce

Annalog said:


> He is a great communicator. Both DH and I usually understand what he wants very well. Watching him think is a lot like watching a toddler think and figure something out. Fortunately he doesn't have tantrums when he does not get his way. Once he pecked me very softly on the arm while clucking at me when I took him away from the hens earlier than he wanted. I talk to him much the same way I talk to a toddler. I know that he does not understand what I say but he does seem to get something from my tone of voice, body language, etc. He certainly seems to understand that I am trying to communicate back even if it does not always result in what he wants.


So very neat!


----------



## Annalog

Sad day today.

I was working from home today as I was feeling a bit under the weather. All the chickens acted normally when I fed them and let them into the pen this morning. I went out to the coop after lunch to collect eggs and connect a timer to the air conditioner as it is an inexpensive one without a thermostat. After I hooked up the timer and collected the eggs, I saw that one of the hens appeared to be laying in the litter as if she had been dusting. However, her head was down and the eye I could see was closed. She did not move when I entered the chicken part of the coop. I saw that she was not breathing and was definitely dead. It was Saffron. I took her out of the coop and examined her. I did not find any injuries or sign of illness. 

I put her in the shade by the house, went inside, washed carefully, phoned my mom, searched the Internet for information, and decided to do a necropsy as I needed to know why she had died. Warning: The next paragraph contains the description and results of the necropsy. (Short version is that it appears she had been bleeding internally and may have had too much fat.)

I put on disposable gloves with long cuffs and took a plastic bag intended for kitchen wastebaskets and three empty plastic grocery bags. I turned the kitchen bag inside out and set it on an old counter/sink combination removed when my sister did remodelling. We have it set up outside. I covered that bag with the grocery bags trapped two edges under weights so that the bags would not blow away. I checked the outside of Saffron again more carefully and did not see anything unusual. I located the crop and made a cut over it. I noticed that there was more fat under the skin than I expected. I opened the crop and the contents seemed normal and did not smell. I was surprised to see some short stick-like items. It turned out that these were segments of mesquite bean pods. I then made a cut below the base of the breastbone to access the abdomen. Again there was more fat than I expected. Also there was a lot of softly clotted blood. It appears that she had been bleeding internally. The blood seemed to be mostly outside the abdominal cavity but under the skin. One of the causes for sudden death that I had seen mentioned on-line was internal bleeding due to an injury, especially if the chicken was also large and fat. Saffron was not large but she did have a layer of fat. I checked the intestines and they seemed normal. There was another large tube that I did not remember from when I processed the roosters. I believe that this was the oviduct. It did not appear unusual as far as I could tell. There were at least three large yolks attached to the ovary. The liver, gizzard, and organs that were easy to access looked normal. Nothing looked like the disease pictures I saw in Google Images. I did not see any worms. I then turned the kitchen bag right-side out around Saffron in order to bury her.

I buried Saffron under a pair of mesquite trees next to where we buried Buttons, our cat who passed away a few years ago. This area is covered with stepping stones.

RIP Saffron


----------



## MariaESchneider

Aw. Sniffle.  Sorry to hear this.


----------



## Annalog

Chicken fat reducing plan: From now on, the chickens will get only half the amount of scratch I had been sprinkling in the pen in the morning. I will also cut the amount of mash (moistened layer pellets) by half each morning and evening. They will still have dry layer pellets available all day and all the fresh fruit and vegetables I can get for them. I hope to double the area they have to run around in by next weekend. 

It is possible that the chickens panicked outside in the pen when I was in the coop cleaning the dust from the air conditioner and other areas of the coop on Saturday. If so, maybe that was when Saffron was injured.


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Aw. Sniffle. Sorry to hear this.


Thank you, Maria. Saffron was the other chicken who would sometimes jump on my shoulder. She was the friendliest of all of the hens. I will miss her.


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

I am kind of confused without reading all the messages. Is this thread for, against, neutral about using chickens as food? I thought this will be more about organic farming.


----------



## tsilver

Anna, I'm sorry that you lost Saffron.


----------



## Annalog

*DrDln* (dr.s.dhillon) said:


> I am kind of confused without reading all the messages. Is this thread for, against, neutral about using chickens as food? I thought this will be more about organic farming.


This thread is about sharing information about raising chickens (or other poultry) in a backyard or very small farm setting. There are many reasons to keep chickens, some of which are as livestock animals, as show animals, or as pets. It is up to the individual reader or poster whether or not to eat eggs or chicken. However, I suspect that most of us who have hens in our backyard do collect and eat the eggs.

For me: I would like to eventually have enough experience to keep one or two flocks of heritage breeds of chickens in order to help preserve some genetic diversity. I am learning with more common backyard breeds instead. My main reason is to keep hens for their eggs but have also processed the excess roosters for the freezer in a way that caused as little stress to the roosters as possible.

If your confusion is because my burying Saffron seems inconsistent then I will provide my reasons. I found Saffron dead of unknown causes. I do not know how long that she had been dead but I do know that she was cold. She would not have been safe to process for eating for multiple reasons. I needed to do the necropsy in order to determine what I should do to try to prevent other chickens from dying This, however, did not mean that I should just throw her away when I finished. Therefore I buried her.

The hens get names that are spices because I need to remember that they may become food. However I also know that some chickens, such as Mr. Milquetoast, will become pets. Pet chickens will not be processed as food.

I hope this answers your question.


----------



## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Anna, I'm sorry that you lost Saffron.


Thank you, Terry. She was a very good chicken. I hope that I can prevent any more hens from ending the same way.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Thank you, Terry. She was a very good chicken. I hope that I can prevent any more hens from ending the same way.


And you already know that it is *not* your fault. It may have nothing to do with the way you were feeding them!!! Some chickens just differ and of course it's fine to change things in the hopes of it helping, but do not blame yourself. Sometimes Gram found chickens dead. She *always* blamed coyotes, which of course was silly because no coyote worth his salt was going to kill the chicken and *leave* it. But then she'd yell at grandpa that he wasn't keeping the coyotes away...

Just gram's way of dealing with things.

As for this thread, it is all things chickens. And all things friends. It doesn't have to "be" anything or everything to everyone.

Hugs,
Maria


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> ... As for this thread, it is all things chickens. And all things friends. It doesn't have to "be" anything or everything to everyone.
> 
> Hugs,
> Maria


{{{Hugs Maria}}} You said it better than I did.

You are also correct that no coyote worth his salt would ever kill a chicken and then leave it. (Some dogs might but coyotes -- never!)

Yes, I do know that it is not my fault that Saffron died. It could be the change in weather, unknown stress, calcium problems, etc. I know that sometimes it just happens.

I also know that I want to be able to "fix" it so it won't happen again as that is my way of dealing with things. (One of the ways my compulsive engineer personality shows.) While it might seem strange to others, I actually felt better after I did the necropsy because it let me convince myself that I had not missed anything noticeable earlier and it gave me some ideas to try even if those ideas might not really make a difference.

And I know that, no matter what I do, keeping chickens means risking losing them as well. That is the way of life.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Hi Anna.  Getting caught up again on your thread.  Sorry to hear about Saffron.  I'm glad your chickens have such a wonderful caretaker!
Just back from a trip to UK, where I saw two chicken tractors!  One was wooden, the other plastic!  Anyway, I thought you you and your chickens!  I hope you have a nice weekend!


----------



## J.M Pierce

Sorry to hear about Saffron. Chickens are sure easy to get attached to.


----------



## scl

We had a pet duck when I was in high school.  She laid enormous eggs that my mother made into truly fabulous brownies.


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, Carol and J.M. Chickens, and other birds with personality, are certainly easy to get attached to. I spent last night at my mom's house. (I try to visit one night a week.) It was difficult for me to be away from the chickens this time. I asked DH over the phone last night and this morning if all the chickens were OK and if he had counted them.  He hadn't counted them but was sure they were all fine. Four days and all the chickens seem well. It is probably time for me to stop worrying about something contagious.

Carol, funny you should mention plastic chicken tractors as I have been thinking that maybe I should build a couple plastic chicken tractors for Thing 1 and Thing 2 to try out.


----------



## Annalog

scl said:


> We had a pet duck when I was in high school. She laid enormous eggs that my mother made into truly fabulous brownies.


Did your pet duck have other duck friends or was she a lone duck? Last year, a duck laid a nest of eggs under a bush in the parking lot where I work. We think she had flown over from a nearby park that has a lake. Someone came to move her and her nest to a more appropriate location.

While I don't think I have ever eaten duck eggs, I have heard that duck eggs are richer than chicken eggs and great for baking.


----------



## scl

Daisy was a Peking Duck, lot's bigger than a mallard.  She started out with a sibling, 
but it didn't last long.  She lived a couple years in a pen in the back yard.  My Uncle 
lived next door and she'd follow him around the yard when he let her out.  Her eggs
were BIG compare to extra large chicken eggs from the store.  We never ate them
as eggs, always baked in something.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

I was on the Oxford Canal over in UK, and there were so many mallards with their babies!  It was so fun to see them swimming around - I wanted to bring one home!  Once, I leaned over the boat as if to catch one and they all started paddling furiously towards me!  They thought I had food!  So then of course I felt bad.... and didn't do that any more.  There were also swans on the canal.  I saw one with 3 goslings (baby swans), the others I saw were setting on their nests.  In fact, one nest had a detour sign around it so people wouldn't walk too close to the nest!  I did feed one, one morning.  I heard they are officially owned and protected by the Queen.  That being said, in London, at Harrods, in the food court, you could buy an ostrich egg for 29 pounds, or about 45 dollars.  They said one ostrich egg was the equivalent of at least a dozen chicken eggs.  In the grocery stores, most of the eggs were sold as a 6-pack.  I also saw coots and moorhens on the canal.


----------



## Annalog

Carol, I keep reading your post and wishing I could be there to see all the different birds.

Here I am hoping to see baby quail soon. I am seeing several quail pairs, male and female.

ETA missing "v". My netbook has been having trouble with that letter. I will try compressed air on the keyboard tonight.


----------



## Annalog

Tomorrow the chickens, except for Thing 1 and Thing 2, will be one year old. They will be getting a cabbage and tree trimmings. I am also planning on giving them a little scratch inside the coop in the evening. 

I spent most of the weekend clearing an 8'x8' area under the mesquite tree north of the chicken pen. I will be building a small duplex chicken retreat there. My current plan is to set up two side-by-side 4'x8' pens with small shelters. Thing 1 and Thing 2 will get to test them as soon as the structures are ready. My plan is to have these structures so that they can fit over my 4'x8' garden beds. They won't quite be chicken tractors as I won't be able to move them with the chickens inside.


----------



## NapCat (retired)

Happy Birthday to Anna's very special chickens !!!


----------



## tsilver

How nice NapCat.  Happy birthday to the chickies, Anna.


----------



## JRTomlin

Happy birthday to the chickies...  

27 pages on chickens is fairly astonishing. On a Kindle forum at that. 

I'm much too lazy to raise them myself but I wish I knew someone who did. I LOVE fresh eggs.

Sorry. Just popped in because..., well, 27 pages on chickens?! Wow. LOL


----------



## Annalog

NapCat said:


> Happy Birthday to Anna's very special chickens !!!


NapCat, Thank you from my chickens and me.


----------



## Annalog

tsilver said:


> How nice NapCat. Happy birthday to the chickies, Anna.


My chickies and I thank you, Terry!


----------



## Annalog

JRTomlin said:


> Happy birthday to the chickies...
> 
> 27 pages on chickens is fairly astonishing. On a Kindle forum at that.
> 
> I'm much too lazy to raise them myself but I wish I knew someone who did. I LOVE fresh eggs.
> 
> Sorry. Just popped in because..., well, 27 pages on chickens?! Wow. LOL


Thank you for the birthday wishes, JRTomlin.

The chickies went crazy over the cabbage today. They had a very happy birthday.


----------



## Annalog

Today the chickens received a treat of cut apples, leftover vegetables, and a dozen scrambled eggs to commemorate the one year anniversary of their arrival. (The eggs were a few left over from April and ones that had slightly dirty shells.) They usually fight over scrambled eggs when they get them so this time there was plenty for all. (Usually they only get one or two at a time when an egg has a cracked or dirty shell.) Even Thing 1, who is at the bottom of the pecking order, was able to have some.

Note: I always scramble any eggs I give to the chickens for two reasons. Cooking the eggs should kill any bacteria that might be in the eggs and also changes the appearance and taste so that the chickens will not associate scrambled eggs with the eggs in the nests.


----------



## tsilver

Note: I always scramble any eggs I give to the chickens for two reasons. Cooking the eggs should kill any bacteria that might be in the eggs and also changes the appearance and taste _so that the chickens will not associate scrambled eggs with the eggs in the nests. _ 
[/quote]

Anna: I love your thoughtfulness towards your chickens. I think that's why I got interested in this thread. You're one of the good guys 

Terry


----------



## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Note: I always scramble any eggs I give to the chickens for two reasons. Cooking the eggs should kill any bacteria that might be in the eggs and also changes the appearance and taste _so that the chickens will not associate scrambled eggs with the eggs in the nests. _
> 
> Anna: I love your thoughtfulness towards your chickens. I think that's why I got interested in this thread. You're one of the good guys
> 
> Terry


Thanks, Terry. I do try to be one of the good guys. I want my chickens to be as happy and stress free as possible.

However, in the spirit of full disclosure, the primary reason I do not want to have the chickens associate the scrambled eggs with the eggs in the nests is so the chickens will not eat the eggs in the nests on their own. I have read too many stories about how difficult it is to break a hen of the habit of eating eggs in the nest. It is better to never let them form that habit in the first place. It is also the reason why I still leave a wooden egg in each nest even though the hens know where to lay. A wooden egg will not break open when a hen pecks at it. Hopefully the hen learns that pecking eggs leads to frustration and does not lead to food.


----------



## Annalog

I worked outside today and nearly finished the base of the Duplex Retreat. The base is 8'x8', one cement block high, with a row of cement blocks making two 4'x8' sections. I hope to get at least one of the pens built so that I can move Thing 2 out of the hen house. I had asked DH to build two shelters similar to the one in Mr. Milquetoast's Rooster Retreat. However, when he was at Home Depot yesterday, he saw a composter kit that he thought would work as a chicken shelter. He bought two. If it does not work then we can use them as composters.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, here is a book that might interest you and other poultry fans! I believe it was only recently released!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, here is a book that might interest you and other poultry fans! I believe it was only recently released!


Thanks! I have downloaded the sample and expect buy it by tomorrow if it is anything like the review.

My nine girls laid nine eggs today! I was surprised as they have been slowing down and most days this last week they only laid 4 or 5 eggs.


----------



## Annalog

Although I worked outside both days this past weekend, I was not able to finish enough of the rooster duplex to move in a rooster. 

Fortunately I went to work on it as soon as I arrived home after work this afternoon. I was surprised to see an adult quail sitting on the unfinished base and calling. I looked down and saw that over a dozen baby quail had gotten into the base but could not get out. I walked over to where the adult was sitting and the adult flew to the west and kept calling the babies. The babies were feathered but could only jump up about 6 inches and not the 8 inches that they needed to get out of the base. The babies ran to the other end of the base. I tipped one of the cement blocks over to make an opening. When I walked back around to the other end, most of the babies ran out and hid in a brush pile to the east. One chick ran into the corner behind a partial bag of wood shavings. I encouraged it to the opening and it joined its siblings. Meanwhile the adult was still over to the west. I walked back around and to the west of the calling quail. This caused the adult quail to fly to the top of the brush pile where the chicks were hiding. I breathed a sigh of relief knowing the family was reunited. I checked in the holes of each of the cement blocks to make sure that no other baby quail were trapped. I then filled each of the holes with dirt or shavings. I also put the rest of the shavings in the nearly finished half ramped up at one end so that baby quail could get out. I also left the block out on the other half so they cannot be trapped there again. Also, about 15 minutes after I let the baby quail escape, a hawk circled overhead. I suspect the babies would have been dinner for the hawk if I had gotten home just a few minutes later.


----------



## Annalog

Carol, thank you again for posting about _The Chicken Chronicles_ by Alice Walker. I bought it last night and am already over halfway through it as it was so difficult to put down last night. Each chapter is an essay or poem that speaks to me.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Yay, Anna!  So glad you are enjoying the book!  and the baby quail incident - whew!  You were there in the nick of time!


----------



## NapCat (retired)

Annalog said:


> I suspect the babies would have been dinner for the hawk if I had gotten home just a few minutes later.


Great save, "Momma Anna" !!


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Yay, Anna! So glad you are enjoying the book! and the baby quail incident - whew! You were there in the nick of time!


I finished the book this morning and I definitely enjoyed it!


NapCat said:


> Great save, "Momma Anna" !!



I am sometimes an "unthinking Anna" ! If I had not left the rooster duplex base as it was, the baby quail would not have been trapped in the first place. I had forgotten to leave a way out for little creatures. I should have remembered as I always try to leave a path of rocks or sticks out of water basins outside.

After I put the 1/2 inch hardware cloth around the frames, then the chicks will not be able to get in to be trapped. Until then, both halves of the rooster duplex base will have escape routes.


----------



## Annalog

The high/low display showed 95F/60F for yesterday. I will be changing the settings on the AC so that it runs all day instead of on for an hour and off for half an hour. I have the outside mist system on from when I feed them in the morning until I get home from work. They seem to prefer that end of the pen. 

Possibly related -- only 4 eggs yesterday.


----------



## Annalog

I finished the first half of the Rooster Duplex around 4PM and moved Thing 2 into it. He was not too happy about it but settled down fairly quickly, especially after I gave him some mash and some scratch. Thing 1 was being chased by a couple hens and he tried to go through the chain link hoping to join his brother. I stopped him before he hurt himself.

After sunset, Thing 2 had not yet found the perch in the shelter in the duplex. I went in, caught him, and put him on the perch. He settled down and was still on the perch when I checked on him about 15 minutes later. The hens were noisy so I checked on them. It seems that the hens are trying to work out a new pecking order. I set the lights to go off earlier so that they would settle down. It appears that Sage is now at the bottom of the pecking order along with Thing 1.

I will be starting on the second half of the duplex after work tomorrow. I hope after both roosters are out that the hens will become calmer.

As I was asked about the source of the names for Thing 1 and Thing 2, the following is the source.

_The Cat in the Hat_ by Dr. Seuss was written in 1957 and is one of the first books I read. (_Green Eggs and Ham_ was the first book I read. )

Thing 1 and Thing 2 can bee seen sitting back to back on the image below.

When the roosters were named, they looked as much alike as Thing 1 and Thing 2. The only difference I could find was in the number of blacked tipped cape feathers. Thing 2 had more. Now, Thing 2 is much larger and more mature. I suspect that as Thing 1 matures, the two will look alike again.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, any plans for more chicks? Either from your hens or on order? 


Spoiler



I know last year, some of them went into the freezer...


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Anna, any plans for more chicks? Either from your hens or on order?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I know last year, some of them went into the freezer...


I was hoping that one of the hens would go broody so that we could have some chicks. However, I think that the summer heat may be causing the hens to moult. Today there were only three eggs.

I am not planning on ordering any chicks this year but if none of the hens sits on eggs, I will probably buy more chicks next year. I will be looking for a second hatchery so that the chickens should be unrelated to my current chickens. If I do not have a reliably broody hen then I will also need to get a few Silkies for brooding.


----------



## tsilver

What are silkies, Anna?  Also, don't all chickens get broody if you don't remove their eggs?


----------



## Annalog

tsilver said:


> What are silkies, Anna? Also, don't all chickens get broody if you don't remove their eggs?


Silkies are a breed of chicken. Mostly as a result of breeding for more production of eggs and meat, the instinct to go broody has been bred out of many of the chicken breeds. Apparently many of the chickens of dual purpose breeds, such as New Hampshire and Barred Plymouth Rock, have also been selected to not go broody. Many of the chickens available no longer fit the standard for their breeds. Certainly none of the hens I have are as large as the APA standard says they should be. I was apparently very lucky to have had one of my hens go broody last November.

Although I collect the eggs each evening, I do leave wooden eggs in the nests at all times. So far, Thyme has gone broody once and none of the hens have been sitting on the eggs in the afternoon or evening when there are several eggs in at least one nest.

According to Wikipedia:


> The Silkie (sometimes spelled Silky) is a breed of chicken named for its atypically fluffy plumage, which is said to feel like silk. The breed has several other unusual qualities, such as dark blue flesh and bones, blue earlobes, and five toes on each foot (most chickens only have four). They are often exhibited in poultry shows, and come in several colors (red, buff, blue, black, white, and partridge).
> 
> In addition to their distinctive physical characteristics, Silkies are well known for their calm, friendly temperament. Among the most docile of poultry, Silkies are considered an ideal pet. Hens are also exceptionally broody, and make good mothers. Though they are fair layers themselves, only laying about three eggs a week, they are commonly used to hatch eggs from other breeds and bird species.


Pictures from the article:


----------



## Angela

Just catching up on the chicken news. Hard to believe they are a year old!! Sorry about Safron. I would love to meet Mr M, he sounds like a sweety. None of our chickens were ever pets, only food.


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## Annalog

Angela said:


> Just catching up on the chicken news. Hard to believe they are a year old!! Sorry about Safron. I would love to meet Mr M, he sounds like a sweety. None of our chickens were ever pets, only food.


Thanks, Angela. Time flies (and more reliably than chickens  ). It is difficult to believe for me as well that I have had chickens for just over a year. Mr. Milquetoast is certainly very friendly for a rooster. He is friendly with DH and definitely sweet with me. I am curious if he would be that way with other people.


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## MariaESchneider

You and the quail story are hilarious.  I can soooo picture you fretting.  

Quail are adorable--even the adults.  We have them all over NM.  They love the grain for the horses and cows.


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## JimC1946

A true story from my childhood:

One pet tradition that would be seriously frowned on today was parents getting their kids baby chickens for Easter. I have no idea how this custom started, and eventually it became unfashionable, since the animals usually died within a few days. Apparently, the chicks that stores sold for Easter were young roosters which are usually killed after birth anyway, so some enterprising poultry producer came up with the idea of dyeing the rooster chicks with food coloring and selling them. They were cute, but many kids mistreated them, and parents got tired of having chicken poop all over the house. When I was about eight years old, Janis and I got two of these little chicks for Easter. We took good care of them, keeping them outside in a homemade chicken coop. They were dyed green and red, and we named them Sonny and Reddy after two TV cartoon characters. They actually flourished and grew for several months till the food coloring was almost worn off and they were beginning to crow. Our parents then suggested that we take them out in the country to where one of our relatives lived. There they would live with the other chickens and have a long, happy life. For several years afterward, every time we went to see our relatives, they would point out Sonny and Reddy, although they looked just like the other chickens to us. Many years later, when Janis and I were in our late-teens, our mom casually remarked that our relatives had killed and eaten Sonny and Reddy a few days after we left them. Parents could be unspeakably cruel at times.


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## SandraMiller

OMG--my jaw dropped when I read that.  That must have been very upsetting to hear about!  One of our cats got run over and my younger sister (25 now) still thinks she ran away...

We live out in the country on a dirt road on a hillside, where people like to drive out and dump the animals they don't want anymore.  We've had a few dogs, LOTS of cats--but last year somebody took the cake and dumped off three roosters!  They were really pretty birds, but not very friendly.  Two disappeared right away into the woods and were never seen again, but one has hung around our place and decided he likes us.  A neighbor gave us three white broiler hens earlier this year, so he really thinks he's something now.  I never expected to like chickens so much, they really do have personality!


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## Annalog

Maria, you are correct. Fretting is an apt description. 

Jim, what a terrible way to find out!

Sandra, I bet the rooster looks especially handsome when he is strutting for the girls.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Jim, my Dad talks about the little green chicks that he and his brother would get for Easter.  He's going to be 90 in a couple of weeks!  It was different back then.


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## MariaESchneider

Just thought I'd mention that Sponge Cakes require a lot of eggs.  I've seen recipes with as many as 11 egg yolks (Much more common to be 5 or so).  I'm making one today, but I can't recommend it yet because it is still in the oven and sponge cakes are funny.  They aren't the easiest cake to me.  Require a lot of air with them thar eggs!


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## Annalog

Are you making angel food cake or something else with the extra egg whites?


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Are you making angel food cake or something else with the extra egg whites?


I did some research and found that lots of people separate the eggs, whip the whites separately and fold them in (the yolks also require a lot of whipping.) Originally sponge cake seems to have been invented for the purpose of using up yolks, but I've seen enough recipes recommend the whipped whites that I decided to try that. It *looks* good and *smells* good, but it's very hot so there have been no tasting sessions.

I generally have more whites than yolks (I make my own salad dressings and creamy dressings require yolks.)

I only made sponge cake because the plan was to make tiramisu today only the boxed cake I thought I had...was not there.  Thus I needed some sort of cake-like object and had to resort to figuring out what kind would work best in Tiramisu.


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## Annalog

Tiramisu always looks so yummy! Fortunately I don't like coffee which protects me from that temptation.


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Tiramisu always looks so yummy! Fortunately I don't like coffee which protects me from that temptation.


Fortunately I don't either, so I just leave that part out!!!

Even in restaurants though, the coffee element is almost non-existent. I usually complain about the tiniest bit of coffee flavor and I've had it several times in restaurants where I can't taste coffee. It may be because they use espresso which is brewed differently.

I add extra chocolate to make up for the lack of coffee. NO complaints so far!!!


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Fortunately I don't either, so I just leave that part out!!!
> 
> Even in restaurants though, the coffee element is almost non-existent. I usually complain about the tiniest bit of coffee flavor and I've had it several times in restaurants where I can't taste coffee. It may be because they use espresso which is brewed differently.
> 
> I add extra chocolate to make up for the lack of coffee. NO complaints so far!!!


The one time I ordered tiramisu at a restaurant it had a strong coffee flavor. That has scared me off ever since. 

Ever since the mention of tiramisu yesterday on the Pound-A-Week Club thread ("There is no known defense in the Universe against Tiramisu"), I have been wondering if recipes for tiramisu would work if the cake/ladyfingers were dipped in a dark chocolate beverage instead. Until I lose 70+ pounds, I don't really want to know.


----------



## MariaESchneider

The best tiramisu is not "dipped" -- the espresso is brushed on with a cooking brush.  So there is *barely* any.  Enough to get the cocoa an edge.  I use a layer of cocoa that is supposed to be "sprinkled" -- mine is more of a "spread" across the cake.  Then the layer of cream/cheese/egg mix.  Then cake, cocoa...repeat as many times as you like.  When the whole thing is layered, I finish with a sprinkling of semi-sweet or milk chocolate (grated).  Mine turned out lopsided (all my cakes do--it's a Maria-signature thing!  )  But boy.  It's pretty darn tasty!

I'll try to take a picture of it for the blog.  It's our anniversary cake (I decided this after spending half the day making it.  Anniversary isn't until later in the month, but we can't eat ALL our favorites on that day so it must be spread out!!!)


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> The best tiramisu is not "dipped" -- the espresso is brushed on with a cooking brush. So there is *barely* any. Enough to get the cocoa an edge. I use a layer of cocoa that is supposed to be "sprinkled" -- mine is more of a "spread" across the cake. Then the layer of cream/cheese/egg mix. Then cake, cocoa...repeat as many times as you like. When the whole thing is layered, I finish with a sprinkling of semi-sweet or milk chocolate (grated). Mine turned out lopsided (all my cakes do--it's a Maria-signature thing! ) But boy. It's pretty darn tasty!
> 
> I'll try to take a picture of it for the blog. It's our anniversary cake (I decided this after spending half the day making it. Anniversary isn't until later in the month, but we can't eat ALL our favorites on that day so it must be spread out!!!)


Looking forward to the pictures. 

Happy Anniversary in advance!

Have all of your lopsided cakes been baked in the same oven? If so, your oven might not be level or may have one side hotter than the other.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> Looking forward to the pictures.
> 
> Happy Anniversary in advance!
> 
> Have all of your lopsided cakes been baked in the same oven? If so, your oven might not be level or may have one side hotter than the other.


No, I've been rather infamous for lopsided cakes since I started baking at age 6 or so.  Some are more lopsided than others, but for tiramisu, I had to cut one layer into two (I baked in a toaster oven because of the heat here--104 today). Weeeeelll. It's hard to cut a cake exactly in half and all that. Ergo, we have Lopsided!!! Technically the cake should have been cut into 3 or even 4 thin layers to be a true tiramisu masterpiece. But I figured that I'd go for "edible" and "looks like a cake" rather than, "So after you dropped it on the floor, you pieced it together"


----------



## MamaProfCrash

I learned how to make tiramisu when I was studying in Milan. I was taught to dip the lady finger like cakes into the espresso very quickly. I think there are different recipes with different techniques. Mine came from an Italian Grandmother so I am going with it is pretty darn authentic Italian Tiramisu. (winks)


----------



## MariaESchneider

ProfCrash said:


> I learned how to make tiramisu when I was studying in Milan. I was taught to dip the lady finger like cakes into the espresso very quickly. I think there are different recipes with different techniques. Mine came from an Italian Grandmother so I am going with it is pretty darn authentic Italian Tiramisu. (winks)


Completely agree--but the amount of espresso soaked up depends very heavily on the cake--the spongier ones that are sold in the stores couldn't be dipped if you wanted to--they would dissolve! There's not enough cake and too much air. So they'd turn soggy. Homemade cakes on the other hand--and depending on thickness--completely different. I posted a picture to my blog of one piece of the tiramisu (I took a picture of the whole thing, but it was dreadfully lopsided!)

www.BearMountainBooks.com

The cake I made turned out to be a decently dense sponge cake. I think I'll use cake flour next time (assuming I have any.) It was a nicely firm cake and could easily have withstood lots of espresso for those who like that flavor. I'm *still* not certain I got enough cocoa power in that middle layer...


----------



## Annalog

ProfCrash, I am glad to hear that I had not misremembered about ladyfingers dipped in coffee. 

Maria, the tiramisu in your photo looks yummy, especially knowing that it contains NO coffee of any variety!  By the way, that slice did not look lopsided to me.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> ProfCrash, I am glad to hear that I had not misremembered about ladyfingers dipped in coffee.
> 
> Maria, the tiramisu in your photo looks yummy, especially knowing that it contains NO coffee of any variety!  By the way, that slice did not look lopsided to me.


Thanks. The first slice fell over. I got smart. I took one from a different side that looked more balanced. So yeah, there's kind of odd cuts now where it looks like someone wanted a piece right out of the center of a different side. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do for the sake of art!!!

It's even better second day. The Italian cream cheese had time to set up. I have this tendency to eat cakes and other desserts before they are cooled or set...last mousse pie I made was still pretty ... unset when we had the first serving!


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Hungry hungry hungry.


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## kCopeseeley

It's so weird.  I thought this was an actual thread about raising poultry. I was going to ask advice about chicken breeds and good layers, because my husband and I are going to buy some pullets on Saturday. hahaha

Is the title a joke?


----------



## MariaESchneider

kCopeseeley said:


> It's so weird. I thought this was an actual thread about raising poultry. I was going to ask advice about chicken breeds and good layers, because my husband and I are going to buy some pullets on Saturday. hahaha
> 
> Is the title a joke?


 Did you read any of the posts before the Tiramisu discussion? Yeah, I took it off-track with a food discussion (again) because I know chicken owners are always looking for recipes that use a lot of eggs...but start at the beginning. Tons of great info.


----------



## Annalog

kCopeseeley said:


> It's so weird. I thought this was an actual thread about raising poultry. I was going to ask advice about chicken breeds and good layers, because my husband and I are going to buy some pullets on Saturday. hahaha
> 
> Is the title a joke?


Welcome. Yes, this thread is intended to be about raising poultry but sometimes we do get off track.

On page 3 is a post with links to sites I found helpful. Most useful to me when I was looking to choose which breeds of chickens I wanted was Henderson's Handy-Dandy Chicken Chart. I was looking for breeds that were non-agressive, hardy in both heat and cold, and good dual-purpose egg layers. I chose Barred Plymouth Rocks and New Hampshire chickens with a few Ameraucana pullets as well so that I could have some blue/green eggs along with the brown ones. All three breeds have been laying very well since last year, especially since I had lights on in the coop during the winter so they had 11-12 hour days. The Ameraucana pullets are not standard colors so are officially Easter Eggers.

The Ameraucana hens are definitely more skittish than the other two breeds but the four of them have been laying an average of 2 eggs a day. The New Hampshire and Barred Rock hens have been laying large eggs and the five hens are still laying 3 to 5 eggs a day. (Exception was day before yesterday when there was only one brown egg. Yesterday there were 5. )

In addition to hens that are good layers, what other characteristics or requirements do you have? How many chickens are you planning on keeping? Are you planning on buying pullet chicks or ones that are a month or so old? Do you have a coop or area for them already?


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## Annalog

Also, while working on separate housing for my three roosters, I have been looking at several plans for "chicken tractors". I realized that one of the things I have noticed about my chickens is that they love to get as high as they can. However, most of the chicken tractors and many coop/pen plans are just tall enough for the chickens with no opportunity for the chickens to jump up on blocks, perches, etc. I am glad that I had decided to build all of the structures for my chickens so that I could stand easily in them as this has also allowed me to put in items at various heights for the chickens to jump and perch on. I think this helps the chickens stay entertained, healthy, and happier than they might be otherwise. This is not to say that chickens cannot be healthy and happy without this but I do know that my chickens certainly take advantage of the available height.


----------



## MariaESchneider

Gram's chickens had perches too.  Their sleep boxes and lay boxes were up (Several rows) and they liked to be-bop along the various rows and fly there when we went in.  It was their little security.  They do like cinderblocks for some reason too.  Don't know what is up with that.  Maybe because they stay coolish during hot days?


----------



## Annalog

Page 9 in this thread has the posts from when the box of 25 chicks that I ordered arrived so posts around that section discuss raising small chicks.

September 21 (page 14) is when we found the first egg laid by the chicks that had hatched in mid May.

Pages 19-22 contain pictures I took during a chicken coop tour as well as one of my hens going broody in November and hatching chicks in December.

Page 24 has pictures of my favorite rooster, a Barred Rock named Mr. Milquetoast, sitting on my shoulder. Not much help on which breeds lay well but an example of a friendly rooster.  That page also has the beginning of a set of photos that show how I recognize individual chickens.

Hope this helps.

Post your questions and we will try to answer them. We love to talk about chickens!


----------



## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Gram's chickens had perches too. Their sleep boxes and lay boxes were up (Several rows) and they liked to be-bop along the various rows and fly there when we went in. It was their little security. They do like cinderblocks for some reason too. Don't know what is up with that. Maybe because they stay coolish during hot days?


My chickens seem to love the cinderblocks also. I find the blocks handy to provide chicken-sized tables.

The inside of our coop has perches along two walls, a movable perch near a third wall and the nest boxes on the fourth wall. The chickens seem to love to walk along the perches to get to the nest boxes, almost as if they are trying to never touch the floor.  Also, those chickens lower on the pecking order seem to use the high places to get away from other chickens until things settle down.


----------



## kCopeseeley

Annalog said:


> In addition to hens that are good layers, what other characteristics or requirements do you have? How many chickens are you planning on keeping? Are you planning on buying pullet chicks or ones that are a month or so old? Do you have a coop or area for them already?


Thank you sooo much for the links!!! When I was a child/teenager, we raised chickens -a small flock of about 6 Rhode Island Reds. They were nice, and from what I remember, good layers, but someone else recommended red star, so I thought I'd look around to see what else is out there. 

We bought some property that has what was formerly a dog run, so it is all fenced off and rather large, our plan was to convert a large shed already on the property into the coop, with some nice shelves and perches for roosting and then we were going to chicken wire the top so no one was fluttering out. Ideally, I would like to let them be free range at some point, but there would have to be some fence building involved, so that won't happen for a few years, probably.

We want to get ones that are about a month old, I think chicks would be a little too much for us, at this point. We haven't decided about how many. I was under the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong!) that different breeds like different amounts of crowding? So I figured the breed we decided on would indicate what kind of square foot to chicken ratio we ended up with.

Thanks for the help! It's been so many years (like 15) since I last helped out with chickens, that I'm at a bit of a loss as to specific dos and don'ts.


----------



## kCopeseeley

Annalog said:


> Hope this helps.
> 
> Post your questions and we will try to answer them. We love to talk about chickens!


Thanks a lot!!! It does help. On a side note: has anyone here ever raised ducks? I never had, but the husband is making noises about those. I told him next year, if the chickens work out, but I did wonder if anyone had tried it.


----------



## Annalog

kCopeseeley said:


> Thanks a lot!!! It does help. On a side note: has anyone here ever raised ducks? I never had, but the husband is making noises about those. I told him next year, if the chickens work out, but I did wonder if anyone had tried it.


I have not raised ducks but I know that others who have posted on this thread have had ducks.



kCopeseeley said:


> Thank you sooo much for the links!!! When I was a child/teenager, we raised chickens -a small flock of about 6 Rhode Island Reds. They were nice, and from what I remember, good layers, but someone else recommended red star, so I thought I'd look around to see what else is out there.
> ...


As I have found out during this past year, it is better to have more room and fewer chickens than the other way around! While different breeds or sizes of chickens may "tolerate" different amounts of crowding, I think that the chickens actually "like" as much room as they can get.  I also think that the minimum square footage usually listed for chickens is too small.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Anna, Have you considered putting in a sort of "Table of Contents" on the first post of this thread?  It seems it would be quite helpful to others who want to find that info you posted earlier, about which pages to find what info.  Anyway, it was just an idea!


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## kCopeseeley

Annalog said:


> I also think that the minimum square footage usually listed for chickens is too small.


Good to know! I'm really excited to get started.  I'll let you know how it goes. I'm sure I'll have more questions.


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## Annalog

Carol, the Table of Contents idea is a great one! I will do that this weekend. (I am staying at my mom's tonight and will be trying to fix her computer. I hope it just needs a new fan.)

ETA: Knowing how I get distracted (Look, shiny squirrel! LOL), I put a Table of Contents placeholder in the original post as well as a link to the first of the posts above with the main info. I still plan to start a real Table of Contents this weekend.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Just be sure the tiramasu recipes make it into your table of contents!


----------



## Annalog

How did you know I was thinking about a set of recipe links in the ToC?


----------



## Annalog

kCopeseeley, did you get the chicks this weekend?

I finally finished the rooster duplex and moved Thing 1 into it. Thing 2 is already in the other half. I will post pictures when I can.


----------



## Annalog

When I moved Thing 2 to the rooster duplex a few weeks ago, he flew/rammed into the door a few times during the day and then settled down. Other than a very short initial panic, he did not seem upset but was determined to see if he could get out.

When I moved Thing 1 to his half of the rooster duplex, his initial panic seemed similar in that he flew at the door once. However, he cried when I left the pen. I went back in and he sat on my lap with me petting him for about half an hour before he was ready to explore his new bachelor digs. I then left the pen but continued working outside on other projects. He still looked as if he was terrified. I let Mr. Milquetoast out as I normally do on weekends and evenings. Seeing Mr. Milquetoast calmly wandering around and checking out everything  seemed to help calm Thing 1. However, he started crying again in the evening. He also knocked his food dish over. Eventually he jumped on top of his shelter, as Thing 2 had already done, and settled down for the night. He was fine this morning but ate much of his scratch while standing on my lap.

The hens seem much calmer with the roosters nearby but out of their coop and pen.


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## B-Kay 1325

Anna, I follow this thread religiously (even though I don't post very often) and in your post today you mentioned that Thing 2 "cried" when you left his pen.  Please tell me how does a rooster cry and how can you tell?  I have never been around a chicken coup and had no idea that chickens or any other bird "cries".


----------



## MamaProfCrash

I would imagine it would be something similar to a dog crying or whining. You can hear the different tone and know that they are upset.


----------



## Annalog

B-Kay 1325 said:


> Anna, I follow this thread religiously (even though I don't post very often) and in your post today you mentioned that Thing 2 "cried" when you left his pen. Please tell me how does a rooster cry and how can you tell? I have never been around a chicken coup and had no idea that chickens or any other bird "cries".





ProfCrash said:


> I would imagine it would be something similar to a dog crying or whining. You can hear the different tone and know that they are upset.


This is it exactly. I almost wrote "whining" but "crying" was closer to how I thought he felt. He was making small whining sounds and his body was shivering all over. He was standing a bit crouched and looking at me. It made me feel as if he was a small child crying for his mother. I went into the pen and sat down and he came right over and jumped on my lap. He also kept looking me straight in the eyes as if he was trying to make me understand what he wanted. (Several of the chickens do this, especially Mr. Milquetoast, Rosemary, Cumin, and Ginger. Saffron and Lennon used to do this as well.)

The chickens make several different sounds besides clucking, cackling, and crowing. They can coo, whine, and growl. A couple chickens make sounds like a duck, some make sounds that remind me of a whinny, and once I heard a sound like a pig's oink. I am often surprised at the sounds they can make.


----------



## B-Kay 1325

Thank you for the explaination, as I said, I have never been around chickens and didn't know that they make all those different sounds.  Very interesting.  Looking forward to the pictures of the Rooster duplex.


----------



## Annalog

kCopeseeley said:


> ... We bought some property that has what was formerly a dog run, so it is all fenced off and rather large, our plan was to convert a large shed already on the property into the coop, with some nice shelves and perches for roosting and then we were going to chicken wire the top so no one was fluttering out. Ideally, I would like to let them be free range at some point, but there would have to be some fence building involved, so that won't happen for a few years, probably. ...


kCopeseeley, I was thinking of you while outside with the chickens yesterday evening. One of the hens was sticking her head and neck out through the chain link fencing on the pen where I have not yet covered the bottom of the fencing with hardware cloth. If your former dog run has fencing such as chain link with large openings, you may want to add a smaller mesh covering to the lower two or three feet so that the chickens do not try to go through the fencing. When they panic or when they want something on the other side, chickens often seem to think that if their head can fit through an opening, then the rest of their body will somehow fit as well.


----------



## kCopeseeley

Annalog said:


> kCopeseeley, I was thinking of you while outside with the chickens yesterday evening. One of the hens was sticking her head and neck out through the chain link fencing on the pen where I have not yet covered the bottom of the fencing with hardware cloth. If your former dog run has fencing such as chain link with large openings, you may want to add a smaller mesh covering to the lower two or three feet so that the chickens do not try to go through the fencing. When they panic or when they want something on the other side, chickens often seem to think that if their head can fit through an opening, then the rest of their body will somehow fit as well.


Thanks for the heads up! We bought a bunch of chicken wire for the top, because we live near a big field and I'm terrified of hawks. I will add that to the list.

I have another question for the poultry experts:

We have acquired 3 year old chickens that were all part of the same flock. They have their own pecking order (hahaha) and they get along well together. We would ideally like to add two more chickens to the flock, but I've heard they're not so friendly to new members being added.

Then I read somewhere that if you put them in at night, the transition seems to go better. Is this an old wives' tale or does this have practical applications?


----------



## Annalog

kCopeseeley said:


> Thanks for the heads up! We bought a bunch of chicken wire for the top, because we live near a big field and I'm terrified of hawks. I will add that to the list.


Also, when chickens panic, they tend to flock to a corner. Some animals, such as raccoons and weasels, take advantage of this and deliberately scare the chickens into a corner so that another one can grab the chicken through the fencing in the corner and pull or bite its head off. This is another reason to use a small mesh wire, such as 1/2 inch hardware cloth, around the pen. It is also why all "chicken tractors" should have at least one corner made of a solid material so that the chickens can go to a safe corner.



kCopeseeley said:


> I have another question for the poultry experts:
> 
> We have acquired 3 year old chickens that were all part of the same flock. They have their own pecking order (hahaha) and they get along well together. We would ideally like to add two more chickens to the flock, but I've heard they're not so friendly to new members being added.
> 
> Then I read somewhere that if you put them in at night, the transition seems to go better. Is this an old wives' tale or does this have practical applications?


Hopefully one of the experts will answer this one. I have also heard that if it is possible to have the new chickens nearby for a few days where the two sets of chickens can see and call to each other but cannot mingle, that that will also make the addition to the flock easier. (This is similar to keeping a new cat in a separate room so that the original cat and the new cat can smell and get to know each other under the door first.) I have also heard that it is important to keep the new additions separate for a week or so to make sure that the chickens are well and will not introduce disease into an existing flock.

However, the only additions to my flock so far have been the three chicks that hatched in December. I lost one of the chicks due to it being pecked on by one of the hens. One recommendation I have is to make sure that there are plenty of places for a chicken to get away from the other chickens and to make sure that there is no place where a chicken can get stuck.


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Anna,
I just got back from a quick trip to Illinois to surprise my Dad for his 90th birthday!  While I was there, the Sangamon County Fair was going on in the thriving metropolis of New Berlin.  We decided to go.  At the ticket booth, my Dad announced it was his 90th birthday that day, and the guy taking his ticket said, "Really?  You got nothing on me, I'm 98!"  We had a good laugh.  Now, back on topic, and the whole reason I'm posting here....  We went over to see the poultry entries.  Oh my, they were beautiful!  I've never seen so many breeds, and the judging was over, and they were packing up to leave.  Now, I thought, Anna should show her chickens!  I'll have to suggest it when I get back to Kindleboards!  
Do you think you might ever be interested in showing your beautiful ladies?


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> ... We went over to see the poultry entries. Oh my, they were beautiful! I've never seen so many breeds, and the judging was over, and they were packing up to leave. Now, I thought, Anna should show her chickens! I'll have to suggest it when I get back to Kindleboards!
> Do you think you might ever be interested in showing your beautiful ladies?


Hi Carol! I am glad you had a good time with your dad, had some laughs, and were able to see some chickens. It sounds like a great visit.

At this time, I am not planning on showing my chickens. The last two times I went to the local county fair, I downloaded the PDF files describing the rules and process of showing chickens. (I did this because the time before, I went to the fair on a day when there were no chickens and this was the only way I could find to know when I would see chickens.) I was not happy about some of the restrictions and conditions. In addition, I have read some sites describing the process of showing chickens. The chickens that are shown will be exposed to possible disease from the other chickens and would need to be isolated after being brought back home for some number of days or weeks. In addition, there is a lot of work to get the chickens ready to show and to have the chickens become used to staying in a cage and examined by strangers so that the chickens will not be too stressed by the entire process.

Since my chickens were not vaccinated for various diseases, such as Marek's Disease, when they were chicks, I do not want to take the chance of having them exposed to diseases that they have not developed an immunity to.


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## Carol Hanrahan

I had no idea it was all so complicated!  I can see your reluctance to show them, and I agree with you.  
One lady took one of her hens out to transfer her to a "going home" pen, and you could just tell how much she loved that hen!  She crooned and petted her.  And there were three eggs in the first three hen cages, and it was all I could do to try NOT to steal them!  I did find an errant feather, black and white striped, from an empty cage that I sneaked into my bag though!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> I had no idea it was all so complicated! I can see your reluctance to show them, and I agree with you.
> One lady took one of her hens out to transfer her to a "going home" pen, and you could just tell how much she loved that hen! She crooned and petted her. And there were three eggs in the first three hen cages, and it was all I could do to try NOT to steal them! I did find an errant feather, black and white striped, from an empty cage that I sneaked into my bag though!


Some of the rules are specifically targeted to limit the spread of disease. Others are to limit liability. A few of the rules on the PDF I downloaded:

In all cases, management reserves the right to reject entirely or accept conditionally any entry. Any bird that is unsightly or shows symptoms of disease or parasites will be removed from the show area and entry fee will be forfeited.
The show management will not be responsible for any damage or death in transit or during the show. Every precaution will be taken to insure against such hazards.
All eggs laid during the show are the property of the _____ Fair and will be removed by the poultry department personnel.
The poultry department personnel will be responsible for the feeding and watering of entries. Feed will be provided by the poultry show. Arrangements for exhibits requiring special feed must be made with the superintendent prior to the acceptance of the entry.
Exhibits not picked up by 8:00 pm ______ will be disposed of at the discretion of the superintendent.
Release time 6:00 pm _______. All birds MUST be out of the barn by 7:00 pm. _____ will not be responsible for birds left after this time. THE BARN WILL BE SPRAYED IMMEDIATELY AFTER RELEASE TIME: THE SPRAY CAN KILL THE BIRDS. Release slips will be available from the show Superintendent and re required to remove birds.


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## Annalog

Due to the weather, including hot winds from the west, I have started spraying the roof of the coop and the surrounding garden area with water. I did this a couple times on Saturday, several times on Sunday when the smoke from the fire far to the west (Monument Fire near Sierra Vista, AZ) was filling the valley, and twice this morning before leaving for work. This kept the coop temperatures below 100 F since I started spraying on Saturday. 

This morning I thought of a way we could put shade cloth so that it will be a couple feet above the coop roof. That should allow the turbine fan to exchange the air while keeping the coop a bit cooler. DH thinks the design will also hold up to the winds.


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## Annalog

Construction of Rooster Duplex:

Some of the photos of the completion of the first and second half of the rooster duplex have been lost, probably due to low battery power.

21 May 2011






















Location of Rooster Duplex is on the east side of a large mesquite tree. The base is partly outlined in order to lay the walkways. A small mesquite tree was in the way of the north wall of the duplex. DH cut it down, I dug around the base (photo), and DH cut the stump below ground level with an electric chainsaw.























The base of the duplex was leveled. The walkways are not level. The first picture shows, after the blocks were filled with dirt, where the baby quail were able to get in but not get out. The first photo shows the view from the southeast, the other two are taken from the north.























The area between the pens for the hens and the rooster duplex is completely paved. This lets me dump out the rooster's water dishes without worrying about mud.  DH brings me more pavers! <3 The mesquite branch was a few inches too low. DH kept hitting his head. I put a stack of cement blocks under it and raised it just over 4 inches. After this picture was taken, pipe insulation was added to the block for padding for the branch. Last week, the blocks were turned 90 degrees to allow for a wider walkway.























After the walkway was laid and leveled, the duplex base blocks and the edge pavers were lifted; hardware cloth was put down to keep out rodents and snakes larger than 1/4 inch. The pavers and blocks were then relaid. Dirt was used over the hardware cloth to level the pavers. The nearly finished base of the duplex.























There is a step in the walkway just past the duplex. A mist system is installed along the north edge of the pens used by the hens. The mist cools the area between the hens and the roosters in their duplex. The hens and roosters also share the shade of the mesquite tree.























Mr. Milquetoast on an inspection tour. The pavers are over the holes in the blocks where the PVC pipe will go. The rest of the holes in the blocks will be filled with dirt.

22 May 2011






















The PVC framework is primarily 1" pipe with 1 1/4" pipe used for the door. The shelter is a new compost bin placed up on 8" blocks to make the doorway taller. The first photo is the view from the east. The second photo is from the southeast. It also shows a half bale of shavings in the west half and the bag in the east half. It is the east half where the quail chicks were trapped temporarily. The block behind the bag of shavings was removed until I was ready to finish the duplex.























View looking down into the compost bin before the short sawhorse was added to be used as a roost. Eventually each half of the duplex received a full bag of shavings. View of the duplex framework, base, and paver edging from the west while standing at the base of the mesquite tree. (It is actually two trees growing side by side.)

22 May - 12 June 2011






















View of the base of the mesquite tree, corner of the hen pen, and the nearly finished half of the duplex. Several photos are missing. The first half of the duplex was finished by attaching shade cloth to the top and part of the north side. The shade cloth also hangs down a couple feet on the west side. The framework was then covered with hardware cloth on the top, sides, and the door. Thing 2 was moved in to his half of the duplex. The next photos show how 1 1/4" PVC pipe and fittings fit over 1" pipe. The 1" pipe has been painted tan to protect it from UV rays. (Too late to go back and paint the other pipe.) I ran out of paint so the door is not painted.























Thing 2 is checking out the result of our work. This shows how close the two halves of the duplex are. Because of the available pipe fittings, the bottom edges of the frame are not all at the same level. I took advantage of this to raise the bottom edges of the adjoining walls so that the water lines for the dishes could go between the two halves. The remaining space was filled with cement blocks 4 inches high. After the door frame was finished, DH and I carried it to an open space so that I could attach the shade cloth to the top and add the hardware cloth to the west side. We then carried it back and finished attaching the hardware cloth to the east side, the top, and then the door.























Chain link door hardware fits the 1" PVC pipe. The hardware cloth and shade cloth were attached to the pipe with zip ties (cable ties). When these start breaking, I will replace them with wire. The automatic pet waterers did include a drawing of a hen in the list of suggested pets. I am using the 4 quart Plastic Waterers for the roosters. When it is hot, they like to stand or sit on their water dishes. This, of course, means that I need to empty the dishes each morning, if not more often.


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## kCopeseeley

Annalog said:


> Construction of Rooster Duplex:
> I am using the 4 quart Plastic Waterers for the roosters. When it is hot, they like to stand or sit on their water dishes. This, of course, means that I need to empty the dishes each morning, if not more often.


That is beautiful! Thanks for sharing the pictures. I got a lot of great ideas, even though we don't have roosters. 

I have to change our waterer twice a day. The hens have plenty of shade, but that doesn't seem to matter. hahaha


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## Annalog

It reached 103 F inside the coop yesterday. I am not sure if it was due to the heat or because they wanted their own wading pool but the hens tilted their automatic watering dish so that the water kept running. Their pen was flooded by the time I was home frome work. Some hens were wading, some were walking on the blocks, while the rest stayed on the small section of dry ground near the steps into the coop. I will see if the water level has gone down this morning.


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## NapCat (retired)

Anna's new chicken coop...


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## kCopeseeley

It hit 102 the other day, and I put out a couple of shallow tubs of water so they could wallow if they wanted.  They seemed to enjoy it.


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## Annalog

NapCat said:


> Anna's new chicken coop...


That is beautiful!


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## Annalog

kCopeseeley said:


> It hit 102 the other day, and I put out a couple of shallow tubs of water so they could wallow if they wanted. They seemed to enjoy it.


This particular automatic waterer was one that they often stood in. It is up on a cement block. I think more than one chicken was trying to stand in it at one time and they knocked it off the block.

When I went outside this morning, the pen was 3/4 damp and 1/4 dry. The damp ground could easily support chickens but I did not trust it to support me.  I scooted along the blocks on the east edge of the pen while holding on to the chain link fencing behind me (similar to movie and TV scenes of people on ledges outside windows on tall buildings) so that I could deal with the waterer without stepping in wet sandy clay. I put the waterer back where it belonged, turned the water on so that it could fill, and then turned the water off so that the pen could not flood again. I will rearrange the blocks so that the waterer will be safer. There is also a 40+ year old 2 gallon metal waterer that my mom used with the chickens when I was much younger. They cannot wade in that one or knock it over.


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## Annalog

Last weekend, when I was at the local Ace Hardware, I was asked if my chickens had a Jacuzzi yet. Maybe the hens are trying to tell me something!


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## Annalog

Maybe the hens flooded their pen to trick the small frogs into comming out of hibernation before the summer rains! Today, when I opened the door to the second pen, I saw Rosemary run out and catch and eat a small frog. Chickens are definitely omnivores!


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## Carol Hanrahan

Who knew chickens would eat frogs!  Yuchhh!
Anna, how warm can it get before the chickens are distressed by the heat?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Who knew chickens would eat frogs! Yuchhh!
> Anna, how warm can it get before the chickens are distressed by the heat?


If it moves, is smaller than the chicken, and the chicken can kill it, then chickens will probably eat it.

From what I have read, it depends on whether the chickens have previously been exposed to heat, the type of chicken, how fat or thin the chicken is, etc. According to World Poultry (www.worldpoultry.net), chickens are stressed by heat at temperatures lower than 100 F, egg shell quality is affected at 100 F, chickens are at a risk of death at 105 F, and 116 F is lethal to chickens. I figure that if I feel hot, then the chickens are definitely feeling hot and stressed.

Chickens start breathing through their mouths when they are hot. As they get hotter they start panting and holding their wings away from their bodies. They eat less and drink more water. Egg production goes down.

While my chickens are breathing through their mouths and sometimes hold their wings away from their bodies, they are alert and active. I feed them early and late in the day when it is cooler.

Today, by spraying the top of the coop with water several times during the day, the AC and fan were able to keep the coop temperature from going over 100 F. It is cooler outside in the pen, under the shade, where the mist system is spraying water all day long. It actually feels several degrees cooler there.

The forecast for today was 108 F with some clouds and lower temperatures (103 f) for the rest of the week. I did see some clouds half and hour ago when I went out to spray the coop again. Hopefully we are past the worst bit of the summer.

Hopefully, the monsoon will arrive soon and rain will drop the temperatures considerably.


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## Annalog

The forecast for lower temperatures was wrong; it was 109 F here yesterday. The inside of the coop reached a high of 106 F. However the chickens are doing well with the shade, mist system, air movement from the AC and box fan, and plenty of water. The 9 hens are usually laying 3 or 4 eggs a day but yesterday they layed 6 eggs, 4 brown and 2 green. Clouds are appearing in the south but no rain yet.


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## Annalog

The clouds I mentioned were for yesterday afternoon. No clouds this morning but I could tell that the humidity was way up from our normal range of single digits to the teens. Monsoon will be soon. 

The chickens seem acclimated as I am no longer seeing any "stress" poops (loose and runny).


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## Annalog

Wednesday night it finally rained.The humidity was up on Thursday so the AC could work well. The high in the coop yesterday was only 95 F, so much better than 104F.


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## Carol Hanrahan

How long do the monsoons last?  When they're over, will the temps be lower?  Those are some pretty hot days!


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> How long do the monsoons last? When they're over, will the temps be lower? Those are some pretty hot days!


Between 4 to 6 weeks depending. The temps will be lower during monsoon but the humidity will be higher. Usually when we get to September, the weather is perfect. However, this year has not been "usual."


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## Annalog

Cinnamon, the Ameraucana/Easter Egger hen without a beard, was acting strangely Friday morning. She did not rush to eat the scratch with the other hens and went back into the coop to sit. As I was not going to be home Friday night or all day Saturday, I asked DH to check on her in the evening and morning and keep me updated. She has continued to act uninterested in food. I returned home late on Saturday and this morning Cinnamon was acting even more lethargic. I suspect that she is egg bound. 

I checked the eggs for the last few days and there are none of the long green ones. I had not determined which of the Easter Eggers was laying the long eggs but I was worried that the hen would have trouble with those eggs getting stuck or broken inside the hen. I now believe it is Cinnamon who laid those eggs.

One of the recommendations for egg bound hens is a soak in a warm tub and some gentle massage. I set up a 15 gallon metal tub filled half way with warm water (same as a baby bath). I readied an old bath towel for drying Cinnamon afterwards. I fetched Cinnamon and stood her in the tub. I kept holding her so that she would feel stable; I had one hand on her back and one on her chest. She calmed down quickly. I had DH stand beside me and hold his hand on her chest so that I could massage her. I also checked her temperature and it seems normal. She does not feel as if she has an infection due to eggs broken internally. After about 5 minutes, she suddenly seemed more alert and active. After15-20 minutes, she had enough and wanted out. I put her on the towel, wrapped her, dried her a bit, and then took her into the coop. While she was still wrapped in the towel, I set her down and unwrapped the towel. She waited a little while and then walked away. She started preening her damp feathers. 

I had to leave for Tucson but DH will be checking on the chickens during the day and reporting to me. Hopefully the warm soak will have worked.


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## tsilver

I'm glad Cinnamon is feeling better.  I didn't know the hens had a problem with their eggs.


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## Annalog

Cinnamon update: She is doing well but has not laid an egg. I believe this means that she was dehydrated but not egg bound. All the other hens and the roosters are doing well. Monsoon is here, the temperatures are down, the humidity is up, but we have only had a few rains at our house. However the last thundershower soaked Mr. Milquetoast while he was free ranging. He shook himself mostly dry and marched around until he was dry according to DH. When I arrived home, Mr. Milquetoast was dry, soft, and fluffy.


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## Annalog

The hens have been laying eggs for over 9 months. Today I was finally able to associate a specific egg with a specific hen: Clove is the hen that lays the large blue eggs.  I suspect that Cinnamon laid the long green eggs but since two of the Easter Eggers (supposed to be Ameraucanas) stopped laying at the same time, I am not certain. Yesterday the 9 hens laid 6 eggs.


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## RuthMadison

How cool! I have always wanted to raise chickens!


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## Annalog

RuthMadison said:


> How cool! I have always wanted to raise chickens!


Welcome, Ruth! Chickens can be very entertaining and fun to be around.

Don't let the beginning of this thread scare you off from raising chickens.  Starting with 3 or 4 pullets or hens is much easier than how I started. It is often possible to start with older chicks or young chickens (pullets if female) instead of starting with day-old chicks.


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## MariaESchneider

Send those monsoons to Texas as soon as you're done with them.  We're parched and hot here.  Methinks if I had chickens they'd be needing a lot of water to wallow in.  It's been 100 for days on end.

Glad Cinny (I don't know how to spell it without looking!) is feeling better!


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> Send those monsoons to Texas as soon as you're done with them. We're parched and hot here. Methinks if I had chickens they'd be needing a lot of water to wallow in. It's been 100 for days on end.
> 
> Glad Cinny (I don't know how to spell it without looking!) is feeling better!


100+ and 50% humidity - Yikes! At least we rarely get both of those at the same time.

In addition to providing water to wade in, another thing I was doing for the chickens last year was filling the waterers with ice every morning so that they would have cool water to drink during the day. If I had not put in the mist system, I would have needed to do that this summer as well. If I had been doing that this year, maybe Cinnamon would not have become dehydrated. I am glad she is back to being her normal perky self.

Today has been a great day for connecting eggs with chickens! I saw Rosemary, the lone Barred Rock hen, standing over her recently laid egg waiting for it to dry. Now I know that the large pale brown eggs are laid by Rosemary.


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## MariaESchneider

We tried providing ice water for the cats one year.  Junior smelled it, poked at the ice and asked to go outside.  Once outside he promptly went to the old water bucket that had been sitting all day in the hot sun--and had a nice long drink!


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## Annalog

This week, each of the chickens laid at least one egg. One day there were 8 eggs, 5 brown and 3 green. That meant that all five of the brown egg laying chickens laid an egg. Another day there were 7 eggs, 3 brown and 4 green/blue. That meant that all four Easter Eggers laid an egg. I can now identify each green/blue egg with a specific hen. Clove lays the large blue eggs, Ginger lays the large green eggs, Cumin lays the small round green eggs, and Cinnamon, the chicken who was dehydrated the other week, lays the long green eggs. She finally laid an egg yesterday after not having laid an egg for a couple weeks.

Yesterday it rained and all three roosters stayed on top of their shelters instead of going inside and staying dry. They were soaking wet when I checked on them yesterday evening. This morning, each one was dry and fluffy.

I let the hens out to free range for an hour and a half when I got home from work today. I had moved the uncomposted material from the compost area near their pen door to a composter farther away. The remaining material was nearly composted. Most of the hens started scratching in the compost and eating the bugs they found. Rosemary found a small centipede, killed it, and then ate it. When it started getting dark after sunset, all the hens went back into the coop on their own.


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## spotsmom

I'm glad to hear that The Things and Mr. Milquetoast are fluffy!!


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## MariaESchneider

Annalog said:


> This week, each of the chickens laid at least one egg. One day there were 8 eggs, 5 brown and 3 green. That meant that all five of the brown egg laying chickens laid an egg. Another day there were 7 eggs, 3 brown and 4 green/blue. That meant that all four Easter Eggers laid an egg. I can now identify each green/blue egg with a specific hen. Clove lays the large blue eggs, Ginger lays the large green eggs, Cumin lays the small round green eggs, and Cinnamon, the chicken who was dehydrated the other week, lays the long green eggs. She finally laid an egg yesterday after not having laid an egg for a couple weeks.
> 
> Yesterday it rained and all three roosters stayed on top of their shelters instead of going inside and staying dry. They were soaking wet when I checked on them yesterday evening. This morning, each one was dry and fluffy.
> 
> I let the hens out to free range for an hour and a half when I got home from work today. I had moved the uncomposted material from the compost area near their pen door to a composter farther away. The remaining material was nearly composted. Most of the hens started scratching in the compost and eating the bugs they found. Rosemary found a small centipede, killed it, and then ate it. When it started getting dark after sunset, all the hens went back into the coop on their own.


I hate centipedes...

I just read that free range eggs are higher in omega 3! I need free range eggs.


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## Annalog

MariaESchneider said:


> I hate centipedes...
> 
> I just read that free range eggs are higher in omega 3! I need free range eggs.


I don't like centipedes either but apparently Rosemary loves them to death! 

While we don't have the area ready for unattended free-ranging, I can let the chickens out to free range if I am in earshot or nearby.  I was sent to see a cardiologist by my regular doctor so that I could have a stress echocardiogram to verify that everything was OK. I asked the cardiologist about the number of eggs I eat. After questioning me about what I fed my chickens, he said I did not need to worry about eating my chickens eggs. Plants, bugs, vegetables, exercise, etc. meant good fats in the eggs instead of bad ones. I also think that happy chickens will mean better quality eggs than eggs from stressed and unhappy chickens.


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## MariaESchneider

Generally speaking eggs aren't really bad for you anyway.  All that hype about cholesterol was before they separated out the good and bad cholesterol types.  But I can believe that a chicken fed a steady diet of one kind of meal isn't going to be as healthy as one that gets out and eats... centipedes.  Gross as THAT idea is!!!


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## Annalog

Bags of poultry feed are usually sewn closed with a thick cotton thread with one of two stiches that can be pulled loose from one end. (One type of chain stitch uses two threads while the other type is a chain stitch with a single thread.) Cotton thread can be composted but do not compost the thread in an area where the chickens will have access unless you cut the thread into very short segments. 

When the chickens scratch in the compost, the thread can get wrapped around one or both feet. The thread is strong enough that the chicken cannot break the thread and the thread could cut into their legs if they pull hard enough. Fortunately I was watching my hens while they were free ranging and digging in the compost pile and saw a hen get stuck in a thread. I believe that I have removed all the threads from the compost pile but I will continue to watch them while they are free ranging.

Today Cinnamon caught, killed, and then ate a small centipede. That makes two hens so far that have done that. I hope this means that this will mean a reduction in the centipede population on our acre!


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## Annalog

Also, I really like the recycled sink that we put on blocks at one end of the garden. I am using it as a laptop table since the wireless signal is good in this location outside. I can post to KB while watching the chickens.   

Mr. Milquetoast is crowing at the setting sun and he, and Things 1 and 2 are clucking at the hens. Half of the hens have gone inside while the rest are still digging in the compost pile for bugs.


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## Annalog

Thing 1 and Thing 2 and the Rooster Duplex:























Thing 2 and Thing 1 in their rooster duplex. The first photo shows how the water lines (blue) go between the two frames while the water dishes are within the frames. Each rooster has his own shelter, water dish, and food dish. The doors are latched at the top while the concrete blocks keep the bottoms of the doors closed.
















Walkway between hen pen and rooster duplex. A moveable fence panel is attached to the corner of the rooster duplex. Walkway blocked with fencing panel with Mr. Milquetoast standing in the walkway. 23 June 2011
















Walkway between hen pen and rooster duplex, looking west. A small movable fence panel is attached to the hen pen at the corner near the yellow pot. It rests against the hen pen when not in use. The next photo shows the opening blocked by the fencing panel. The stack of blocks raises a tree branch a few inches so that we don't bump our heads.  So far, roosters have not tried to go between the stack of blocks and the corner of the duplex.























Thing 2 looking into the hen pen this morning while I was doing morning chores.
















Thing 2 looking at me. Thing 2 raising his hackles and challenging Thing 1.























More photos of Thing 2.




























































Photos of Thing 1. He usually knocks his food dish over.


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## prairiesky

Thing 1 and Thing 2 are quite handsome roosters.  You have a chichen condominium happening.


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## PhoenixS

What lovely boys you have, Anna! I was directed this way by one of the moderators who said there was a chicken thread going on . I have an assorted flock in North Texas that are all free-ranging except for 2 roosters who pester the girls too much. In all, there are 19 in the flock now. I've sold surplus eggs when the girls were younger and there were more of them. I don't slaughter them -- vegetarian, you know. 

May I share some of my pics? (These are from an old post on my blog.)






























































I'm sure there's a lot to learn from this thread. Others' experience really is the best teacher! Thanks for sharing your journey, Anna.


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## Annalog

prairiesky said:


> Thing 1 and Thing 2 are quite handsome roosters. You have a chichen condominium happening.


Thanks Prairiesky


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## Annalog

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> What lovely boys you have, Anna! I was directed this way by one of the moderators who said there was a chicken thread going on . I have an assorted flock in North Texas that are all free-ranging except for 2 roosters who pester the girls too much. In all, there are 19 in the flock now. I've sold surplus eggs when the girls were younger and there were more of them. I don't slaughter them -- vegetarian, you know.
> 
> May I share some of my pics? (These are from an old post on my blog.)
> ...
> I'm sure there's a lot to learn from this thread. Others' experience really is the best teacher! Thanks for sharing your journey, Anna.


Phoenix, what great photos! Thank you so much for posting! The Polish (?) chickens reminded me of Hat and Beanie from the bantam flock we had when I was a kid. You also have some lovely roosters!

Love the artwork on the coop. DH and I are especially impressed with the trompe l'oeil door and window box!

I am looking forward to learning more from you.


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## spotsmom

FINALLY!!!  Photos of The Things!!  Thanks so much, Anna.  now I can picture them in their "natural habitat".  Must say, though, I do believe I like Mr. Milquetoast better.  Great photos!


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## PhoenixS

Thanks for the compliments, Anna. I've had the chicks for almost 5 years now, but I still feel like such a novice at this.

Where did you live when you had Polish? I'm finding that the more "exotic" hens and roo-boys seem quite frail. None have survived long, especially in the triple-digit summers  

Your setup sure beats carrying around pails of water! Like Maria, I'm in Texas too and keeping everyone cool and hydrated is a challenge. I laughed reading about the kitty that turned its nose up at the ice water. Along those same lines, during the winter I haul warm water out to the chicks, yet they usually head for any icy water that's standing around. Go figure!


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## Annalog

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Thanks for the compliments, Anna. I've had the chicks for almost 5 years now, but I still feel like such a novice at this.
> 
> Where did you live when you had Polish? I'm finding that the more "exotic" hens and roo-boys seem quite frail. None have survived long, especially in the triple-digit summers
> 
> Your setup sure beats carrying around pails of water! Like Maria, I'm in Texas too and keeping everyone cool and hydrated is a challenge. I laughed reading about the kitty that turned its nose up at the ice water. Along those same lines, during the winter I haul warm water out to the chicks, yet they usually head for any icy water that's standing around. Go figure!


It has only been just over a year keeping chickens for us and I definitely feel like a novice.

I grew up in Tucson, Arizona. When we had the mixed flock of bantams (both hens and roosters) we lived in the foothills to the west of Tucson. We had triple-digit summers but that did not seem to bother the chickens. There were a lot of large palo verde trees and creosote bushes around to provide shade. Also, their coop was on the north side of the house and that provided shade for them as well. Hat, the Polish hen, was a bit more nervous than the other hens. When one of the hens became broody, my mom let her hatch eggs from several other hens. One of the chicks had a little tuft of feathers on his head. He must have been Hat's son, so we named him Beanie.

This was about 40 years ago. I think that chickens must have been less inbred and hardier then as the Polish chickens were out free ranging just like the other chickens. It is also possible that Hat was not purebred. We had just gone to a local feed store and picked out a bunch of chicks that we liked. We raised them in the family room and when they were big enough to stay outside, My dad turned an old swing set into a chicken coop. He covered the frame with chicken wire and added a roof to the top third with a roost going the length of the swingset. At one end he added a shelter that included nesting boxes. The door was at the end and we had to duck under the cross piece.

I do carry water out to the chicken coop every day. I usually carry three one gallon jugs of water with a little apple cider vinegar in each gallon. I use it for the water containers inside the coop and to make the mash for the chickens. I only have the automatic waterers in the hen pen and in the rooster duplex. Mr. Milquetoast has an old 2 gallon metal waterer that my mom used with the flock when we were kids. We had two of those and I now have them both. The other is in the hen pen as backup for the automatic waterer.


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## Annalog

Somehow, last night when I put the hens to bed, I forgot to close the coop door to one of the pens and also left that pen door unlatched. this morning, I was surprised to see the hens in the pen and in the garden. Fortunately they all stayed in the fenced area.

We had a heavy rain last night and the bedding (wood shavings) in the rooster duplex was soaked. I let Thing 1 and Thing 2 take turns free ranging while I shoveled out their pens and then added fresh wood shavings. I put most of the shavings under their shelters where it would stay drier. It was funny but each rooster made a nest in the shavings under the shelter and then started clucking, cooing, and growling. I think they were trying to convince the hens that they had made a good place to lay eggs.


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## tsilver

Hi Anna - Haven't seen posts from you for awhile.  Missed reading about chicken life.

Terry


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## Annalog

Terry, work life has been a bit hectic lately and chicken life was mostly going along on an even keel.

When I dug out the two bales of wood shavings out from under a stack of stuff so that I could clean the rooster duplex, I also thought that the coop was overdue for a cleaning. I went to the feed store for more wood shavings. They were out but they had a truck making rounds that would bring bags of shavings later in the day. I overheard that the price of alfalfa would be going up so I decided to get a bale. (I had read on-line recently that a diet higher in fiber and lower in calories, along with shorter day length, might help trigger hens to go into molt.

While taking down totes from a shelf in the coop, I found a blue egg that Clove must have laid months ago. Definitely time to clean!

I spent most of yesterday and today cleaning and rearranging. More after my next break from working outside in the heat.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Getting my "chicken fix"!  Great pictures posted!


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## Annalog

Hi Carol!

Yesterday I saw I needed to change the shelf paper (chicken feed bags cut in half lengthwise), dust (chicken dust gets everywhere and sticks), and replace the shower curtains that are supposed to act as a barrier to the chickens to keep them off the shelf and the containers on the shelf. Unfortunately I cut them an inch too short and the chickens shredded them. I left it alone as the chickens seemed to stop flying up to the shelf. This time I am going to cut the curtains longer so that I can clip them to the bottom of the wire shelf. I decided to look for tan vinyl shower curtains so that the dust would not show.  DH asked if I could fit a bookcase into the storage side of the chicken coop. He was finally ready to put together the steel storage shelving unit I brought home for him about three years ago and the 25+ year old imitation wood (chipboard) bookcase he had been using in the storage shed was in his way. Yes, I am dusting and redecorating for chickens! (And DH)  

ETA: A year later I learned that the bookcase was a bad idea as it provided hiding places for mice.


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## Annalog

While clearing out the storage section of the coop, I found that the AC unit had been leaking water into the wall instead of putting it outside where it belonged. The plywood floor under the vinyl flooring was wet 7 feet away where the bookcase was going. We turned off the AC and put it on fan only. We made sure that the box fan would run day and night with a few half hour breaks for the motor to cool. DH will be taking out the AC unit and putting it back in with a pan to make sure the water goes where it belongs. The wood flooring is open to the air under the coop and should dry out OK, especially after monsoon is over.


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## Annalog

I took pictures yesterday but was too tired to post them. This morning, after feeding the hens, I tried to look on top of one of the totes to see there was evidence that a hen had been up there. Big mistake! I must have put a little too much pressure on the tote as the entire shelf came loose from the wall and fell on to the roost below. Fortunately no hens were on the roost. One of the totes fell off the shelf but did not hit any chickens. The three of the four hens that were in the coop ran outside while the fourth ran under the nesting boxes before going outside. I took the remaining totes down, lifted the shelf from the roost, and then took the all of the totes outside. I took the hens their scratch next so that I could check to see that they were all OK. I let Mr. Milquetoast out to free range. As soon as he was near the hen pen, all of the hens started telling him how I had scared them and that they were NOT happy with the current situation. (They had been quiet earlier and had just glared at me.) After a couple minutes of non-stop chattering, they quieted down again. By the time I left for work, all the chickens were acting as if nothing had happened.

DH came out while I was finishing the morning chicken chores. He checked out the shelf and suggested a couple ways he could fix it. He also put the totes in another shed. The bottom of the curtains tore on one side but I will be able to use them again after the shelf is repaired. All is well but it was an eventful morning.


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## tsilver

Were your ears burning Anna when the hens were discussing your behavior with Mr. Milquetoast?  You should have taken a picture.  Poor babies!


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Were your ears burning Anna when the hens were discussing your behavior with Mr. Milquetoast? You should have taken a picture. Poor babies!


I did take a picture of the problem shelf and a picture of the hens after they had calmed down. However I did not take a picture of them discussing my behavior with Mr. Milquetoast. I am curious whether they will still be glaring at me when I get home from work today.

If DH fixes the shelf today, then the hens may be glaring at him instead.


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## Annalog

DH fixed the shelf yesterday by replacing the plastic clips that held the back of the shelf to the wall with metal loops. The supports under the shelf stayed the same. They appear to be OK after being bent back down to the correct position. (They had bent down when the shelf came loose from the wall and I had bent them up when getting the shelf out of the way of the hen's roost.) I reclipped the shower curtains in place but currently nothing is on the shelf.

Seven eggs yesterday (5 brown, 2 green) with no stress marks so the hens seem to be doing OK after the crashing shelf.

On the weekend, I noticed that the spurs on Thing 1 are grey and short while the spurs on Thing 2 are longer and yellow. I suspect an infection, fungus, or similar problem, I checked out what was available at the feed store. I purchased a bottle of Vetericyn Gel and I am spraying it on Thing 1's spurs at least once a day. This morning the spurs are looking better but are still grey. (Vetericyn Gel is a pH neutral combination of water, polysilicate gel, boric acid, hypochlorous acid, and a couple salts. It is safe if licked and contains no antibiotics.)


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## Annalog

When I came home from work today the yard was covered with large, fat, yellow caterpillars with black stripes and a horn on one end. The hens who love killing and eating centipedes and grubs are leaving the caterpillars alone. I wonder what they know that I don't?


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## Annalog

This morning I saw Thing 1, Mr. Milquetoast, and some of the hens kill and taste a few of the white-lined sphinx moth caterpillars. The chickens are interested in them but act as if the caterpillars taste odd. Some of the hens tried to steal caterpillars from other hens and then got their own. However, while a hen with a caterpillar would keep it away from other hens, I did not see any chickens actually eat these caterpillars. They did seem to be having fun finding and catching the caterpillars.

The chickens only have access to a small fraction of the caterpillars covering our yard. Most of the caterpillars are busy eating tender green plants or quickly traveling from one plant to another. I hope to see many of the white-lined sphinx moths later this year.


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## Annalog

Today I painted 12 pieces of 10 foot long 1" PVC pipe with primer paint. I will be using the PVC pipe next weekend to roof the second pen for the hens. The paint should help protect the pipe from UV so that it will last longer and not get brittle. I added 5 feet to the length of the planter-in-progress. I used the two rows of cement blocks of the planter to hold the pipe for painting. It worked very well.

After the second pen has a roof and surround the lower part of the chain link with harware cloth, I will be able to let the hens into both pens when we are not home.

DH and I are going on a week-long vacation in a month. The chickensitters we have can only come once a day to feed the chickens, change the water, and gather the eggs. I want to be able to leave the doors from the coop to the pens open all the time while we are gone so that the hens are not stuck in the coop. The hens are good coming into the coop after sunset so they will be in the coop at night. I just need to be sure that no critters, such as hawk or owl, can get into the coop.


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## Annalog

This morning I let Mr. Milquetoast out to free range before feeding the other two roosters. I put the two wire gates closed for the "rooster duplex lobby" as I usually do. These gates do not currently have latches. I opened the door to Thing 2s pen. He went to the end of the hen as he usually does and I started by filling his food bowl. I looked around and saw that he had left the lobby by forcing his way between the end of the gate and the pen. There was nothing between him and Mr. Milquetoast but about 5 feet of space. Thing 2 was standing still as if he was surprised that he was outside. I yelled "NO! NO!" while rushing through the gate. I picked up Thing 2 and took him back into the lobby. I set up the two cement blocks so that Thing 2 would think the way was blocked. I was able to finish with no other incidents. I am very glad that there was no rooster fight and that I am not currently dealing with an injured rooster.

I have added latches for the gates to the list of stuff I will be buying at Ace Hardware today!


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## Annalog

The excitement for today was what I found under the 2 gallon metal waterer outside in the hen pen. Normally I find pill bugs and desert cockroaches on the concrete paver when I pick up the waterer to empty the dish. None of those were there today. In their place was a fairly large scorpion (body over 1 inch wide and length, with stinger, about 4 inches long). My first reaction was to drop the waterer onto the scorpion. (I don't think I made any noise but, if I did, it would have been "WAWH!" I slid the waterer a few inches along the paver before I picked it up again. That took care of the scorpion. 

I know that there are lots of small, less than an inch long, scorpions on our property but I don't remember seeing one that large here. It may just be that I normally don't pick up stuff they hide under. I usually see the smaller ones when I am digging or laying pavers or blocks.


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## tsilver

Are all scorpions poisonous?  You have an exciting life in the chicken world Anna.  Glad you didn't get stung.


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Are all scorpions poisonous? You have an exciting life in the chicken world Anna. Glad you didn't get stung.


According to Wikipedia, only 25 species have venom dangerous to humans. One of these is the Arizona Bark Scorpion. If I over estimated the size, which is certainly possible, the scorpion I found could have been a full grown bark scorpion if it was only 3 inches long instead of 4. I suspect that most of the scorpions in this area are bark scorpions. Only if the scorpion is definitely larger than 4 inches would I not worry too much.  The area where I live is a prime habitat for bark scorpions. In addition, adding the water and food for the chickens has increased the amount of prey available for the scorpions. According to the Wikipedia, "The bark scorpion is nocturnal, prefers to ambush its prey, and usually feeds on crickets or roaches."


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## Annalog

Yesterday, when I went out to turn on the mist system to help keep the chickens cool, I saw that a LBB (little brown bird, probably a sparrow or wren) was stuck in Thing 2's pen. Apparently the bird had gone through the opening around the door latch but forgot how it had gotten in. It was trying to find an opening in the back wall. I let Thing 2 out, left the door open wide, and then got the bird to fly past me and out the door. Thing 2 went back in his pen, I closed the door, and all was well. Neither Thing 1 or Thing 2 seemed concerned about the bird and Thing 2 was not bothering the bird.

Today it rained so I could not finish painting the PVC for the roof on the second hen pen. I do have the framework assembled and ready to paint.


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## Annalog

Yesterday I finished painting the PVC but soon after the paint dried we had lightning, rain and hail. The drainage culvert that carries water under the road behind our house had so much water flowing through it that the drainage ditch filled faster than it could drain. The water rose to within a couple inches of the top of the three foot tall water control berm. The berm becomes shorter as it gets to our property until it is just a few inches high and  ends on our property. We had extended the berm about 10 feet several years ago when it rained enough that the water flowed around the end of the berm. There was even more water this time. The water flowed around the end of the berm and then west across the north third of our property. This is the area behind our house where we have our garden, the chickens, and the large shed. The water completely filled a 4' by 8' by 2' deep hole in the garden. It flowed over the pavers under the chicken coop. It filled the chicken pens about 4 inches deep. 

During one of the breaks in the rain, we went out to check on the chickens. When Rosemary decided to explore one of the pens, the water came up to the feathers on her leg. Mr. Milquetoast was soaking wet. I picked him up and put him under the shelter in his pen. Both Thing 1 and Thing 2 had stayed dry in their shelters.

This morning, all of the water had either drained away or soaked into the ground. No serious damage was done.


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## Annalog

Today I have to finish the roof on the second chicken pen. It has been raining all week. I am happy we are finally getting rain but it has put a damper on my work outside. This morning I cleaned out the rooster duplex as the wood shavings were soaked. Thing 1 dumps his food bowl over every day. The result was pretty stinky mixed with wet wood shavings! Hopefully DH can fix two 2.5 gallon water bottles as rainproof and nondumpable food dishes for Things 1 and 2.

Off to find my gloves and wire cutters for the hardware cloth roof.


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## tsilver

Anna:  I really enjoy your reports.  You're like one of the early pioneer women.

Terry


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Anna: I really enjoy your reports. You're like one of the early pioneer women.
> 
> Terry


Thanks, Terry!

Fortunately, unlike early pioneer women, when the braided clothesline cord I was using to open the coop doors broke, I was able to drive down to our local Ace Hardware, buy 1/8 inch wire cable and cable clamps. (I learned about cable clamps from one of the helpful Ace folks. I definitely like the clamps with bolts and nuts better than the ones that need to be hit with a cold chisel! ) Now both chicken coop doors have wire cable instead of cotton cord for opening and closing. I won't need to worry about those cables breaking and dropping a door on one of my hens! (The door just missed hitting Rosemary when the cord broke!)

I cut four 10' pieces of 4' wide hardware cloth for the roof. I 'sewed' two pieces together using wire and a whip stitch so that I would have a piece 8' wide. Silly me, when I put the wire on the roof framework, there was a 4 inch gap on each side. I should have measured and checked the other roof. (That one had a cap covering a gap in the center.) It was too late to change so I continued. The gap is probably too small for a predator (owl, hawk, cat) to get in. In addition, I attached the shade cloth so that the gap is covered.I finished attaching the shade cloth about 15 minutes before sunset.


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## Annalog

DH was probably laughing at me this morning when he looked out the window and saw me sitting in the Rooster Retreat with Mr. Milquetoast standing on my lap. He certainly would have laughed if he had heard me telling Mr. Milquetoast to be good and not give the chickensitter a difficult time. 

DH did laugh at all the notes and signs I put up for the chicken sitter. 1/10 concerning the cats and 9/10 concerning the chickens. 

The chickensitter was surprised at how calm and mellow all three of the roosters are. She had chickens years ago and their roosters were much more agressive.

I will miss my chickens this week. But I will have fun on vacation.


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## SarahBarnard

Annalog said:


> When I came home from work today the yard was covered with large, fat, yellow caterpillars with black stripes and a horn on one end. The hens who love killing and eating centipedes and grubs are leaving the caterpillars alone. I wonder what they know that I don't?


We have some bright green caterpillars that the hens refuse to eat. The caterpillars grow on my broccoli and cabbage plants. The hens eat the same plants but the caterpillars are ignored.


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## Annalog

Sarah, I wonder how the hens know which are OK to eat and which are not? After our recent rains I found a dead Colorado River Toad in the pen. I was glad that the hens did not eat it as those toads are poisonous.

My chickens also love the plants in the cabbage family. They ate the stem of a cauliflower until it looked like a misshapen egg and then until it was gone.


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## SarahBarnard

Hi Annalog!
How's it all going? 

I have no idea how they know, but those caterpillars walk out of the pen while others have no chance of escape.


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## tsilver

Enjoy your vacation Anna.


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## Annalog

Hi Sarah, it is going fine. Some of the hens have finally started moulting. Cinnamon finished and has a beautiful new set of feathers.

Thanks, Terry. DH and I have arrived safely in Sedona. We both like the place we are staying. Our cell phones do not work anywhere near our room and we don't have Internet access either. This is not a problem; we just drove to dinner and phoned family with "safe arrival" calls. My K2 is getting a good signal so I can post this. 

I brought 10 eggs laid by our hens and will be fixing a couple for breakfast before we go hiking. The room has a full kitchen with dishwasher. (Actually kitchen, living room, bedroom, and bathroom.)


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## MamaProfCrash

OUr dogs have been enjoying snacking on tomatoes, cucumbers, and non spicey peppers. They have yet to try and eat any of the spicey peppers (250,000 scoville units and up). I think they can smell the difference and stay away from the hot ones.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some type of color marking or scent to the poisinous animals that cause the chickens to avoid them.


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## Annalog

ProfCrash, I agree. The chickens must be following some warnings, visual, smell or taste, that stopped them from eating the Colorado River Toad when they ate other toads. I had read that chickens are opportunistic feeders and will often eat things that are hazardous. I am glad that there are warnings that the chickens follow.


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## Annalog

The two back-to-back vacations were wonderful but the chickens are glad I am back home!

The first week both DH and I were on vacation (Sedona, Flagstaff and a model railroad convention). The chickensitter came once a day, afternoon or early evening, to collect the eggs and feed and water the chickens. (She also brought in the mail and fed and watered the cats.  ) Mr. Milquetoast and the Things were very well behaved for her. 

We were home for two days before I needed to leave for the second trip (visit DD and GDs followed by origami convention). I fed the chickens well and fixed everything up so that DH would have an easy time taking care of the chickens. DH did an adequate job taking care of the chickens but not in the manner to which they were accustomed.  They were very happy to see me come home! Now they can expect mash morning and night as well as fresh goodies. 

More of the hens are moulting and therefore they are laying fewer eggs (2 dozen eggs a week instead of 3.5 dozen). I will need to take pictures this weekend of hens in various stages of moult.


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## Annalog

Ice on the water dishes in the pens for the hens; hoses to the automatic waterers frozen but no ice in the dishes in the rooster duplex. We added a tarp covered by latticework to the north half of the shelter for Thing 1 and Thing 2. That addition held up to the 50 mph gusts on Friday and kept the inner shelters protected. It appears to have kept their water from freezing last night as well. 

Cinnamon has gone broody and is now sitting in a nest nearly all of the time. We left the one egg under her yesterday and will add all of the brown eggs laid today and tomorrow. Hopefully chicks will hatch in 4 weeks. I am hoping for at least a couple Barred Rocks. I am glad that Cinnamon has stopped laying eggs as her eggs are not the right shape, too long, and sometimes have cracks covered with more eggshell. It would be safer for her to not produce any more eggs. A cracked egg inside a hen is very bad for her. We cannot afford to have her "fixed" if there is even a vet in the area that does that procedure.

ETA: Related questions posted on Another truly random question thread.


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## Annalog

Three brown eggs were laid yesterday and DH set them by Cinnamon that evening. She immediately rolled each one under her. I don't know if she gets off the next at other times but she does go out to the pen each morning when I put out the scratch and the mash. (I used this opportunity to remove the one wooden egg that was in the nest.) After eating some scratch and mash, as well as stretching her legs and enjoying the sunshine, she goes back in to sit on the eggs.


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## Annalog

I worked a couple hours late yesterday. When I phoned on my way home, DH asked me to check on Cinnamon. He was concerned that she had gotten off the nesy when he put the hens in and gave them their evening mash.When I did, I saw that she was sitting on eggs in the wrong nest, two blue and two wooden. I moved her to the correct nest and took all the eggs out of the other nest.

New instructions for DH: Take in any eggs in the west nest, take in all green eggs, and leave all brown eggs in the east nest. If only one nest has eggs in it then Cinnamon will not get confused. She is not our brightest hen.


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## Annalog

A few days ago Parsley went broody as well and is sitting on the nest with Cinnamon. It is just as well as the other hens keep laying eggs in that nest so that there were too many for Parsley to cover at one time. A few chicks could hatch as early as 28 November but most of the eggs would hatch in early December. Now I need to decide when to move Parsley and Cinnamon to the lower area. Last year, I did not move Thyme and her chicks until the chicks were a day old.


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## Annalog

With temperatures dropping, I decided to add another bale of wood shavings to the coop so that the litter would be deeper and warmer. I already had the bale in the coop (on the shelf behind the flowered shower curtain). All I did was cut one end of the bag open, fluff the shavings as I pulled them out of the bag, make a pile in one corner of the coop, and then rake the shavings around fairly evenly. 

Most of the hens went to the opposite corner of the coop or hid under the nesting boxes. They were acting worried as if I had not done this many times in the past. Only Rosemary and one other hen stayed close to scratch through the shavings. As soon as I finished, I scooped some scratch to sprinkle over the new shavings. I put a little at the landing to the nest so that Cinnamon and Parsley would not feel left out.

Now all the hens are happy instead of worried.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Today was "chick day" at the feed store by my horse's barn.  I saw the little chickies - they were so cute!  Unfortunately, DH and 2 dogs prevent me from getting any.  

So I come to Annalog's thread to get my fix!


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## Annalog

Long overdue update:
Cinnamon and Parsley were not successful in hatching chicks. I am planning on rebuilding the nesting boxes so that there will be more nests and so that it will be easier to separate broody hens so that the other hens will not keep adding eggs under sitting hens.

We had a pair of large hawks perching on garden structures during the coldest part of the winter. During this time, we did not let any of the chickens free range. We also saw very few quail or other birds around. After a few weeks, the hawks moved on but we still only let the chickens out of their pens when we were also outside. We are seeing lots of sparrows but only a few quail.

DH has been working on a patio at one end of the house. He needed more cement blocks than he had brought home so decided to take some of the ones from inside the hens' pen. When he lifted the cap block, he found lots of insects in the cement block openings. The hens happily gobbled all the bugs that they could catch. He left the cap blocks off of a few of the cement blocks remaining in the pen. Now we shift the cap blocks every few days. 

All 9 hens are laying and I collect 4 or 5 eggs each day.


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## Annalog

Southern Arizona had a winter storm warning earlier today. The forecast earlier today was that the low tonight would be 18 F. After the past few weeks of warm days and nights above freezing, I was concerned that Mr. Milquetoast would get too cold roosting on the top of his shelter after getting used to the warmer weather. The other two roosters have more protection from the wind on top of their shelters but Mr. Milquetoast's shelter is in a more open area.

When it is raining or very cold at sunset, Mr. Milquetoast will roost inside the shelter. We did have snow, hail, and rain earlier today. However, the sun came out a few hours before sunset. As I expected, he roosted on top of his shelter instead of inside. Just before it was too dark to see, I went out and lifted Mr. Milquetoast down from his high roost. He perched on my arm but did not want to get on the roost inside the shelter. Instead, he decided to walk up my arm and roost on my shoulder instead. He was very calm the entire time but seemed puzzled by what I was doing.

I used my cell phone to call DH inside the house to see if he could come out to help me with Mr. Milquetoast. During the phone call, Mr. Milquetoast walked across the back of my neck to my other shoulder. I started laughing and dropped my head a bit. That led to Mr. Milquetoast putting one foot on my head. I decided to duck under the roost and that caused Mr. Milquetoast to get on the roost. DH was very happy to hear that he did not need to put his shoes back on and go out into the cold. 

I let DH know that I would stay outside with Mr. Milquetoast until I thought he would stay put inside his shelter. I petted him while he made cooing sounds and settled into his resting position. I then closed the shelter door on the side he was on and kept petting him. By this time it was quite dark inside the shelter. I closed the other door and waited to make sure that he did not jump down. After a few minutes he stopped cooing and seemed to be asleep so I left and closed his pen door.  

I checked a few hours later to confirm that he stayed sleeping inside his shelter. Now the weather reports say it should only get down to 24 F but I am still glad that Mr. Milquetoast is in his shelter protected from the wind.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Love this story, Annalog!


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## Annalog

Betsy, when I was kneeling on the ground in the doorway of the shelter and digging my cell phone out of my pocket, I was wishing that I could get a photo or a video to post here. When he climbed on my shoulder as he used to do when he was younger, I thought of those earlier times. It made me very happy that he still trusts me that much even though I have not had as much time to spend with him during the winter. I am glad that spring is here.


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## MamaProfCrash

That is adorable.


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## Annalog

ProfCrash said:


> That is adorable.


Thanks!

Now that it spring, the sun is rising at least 30 minutes before I should leave for work and setting at least 30 minutes after I get home. That leaves a bit of time to be outside with the chickens before it is time to make sure they are in their respective shelters (coop, rooster retreat, or rooster duplex). 

I left out the following as I thought it was TMI:


Spoiler



I was kneeling on the ground when on the phone and then on my hands and knees when ducking under the perch. Fortunately the ground was dry and relatively clean in that area but I would have acted exactly the same if it wasn't. (I did put the cell phone away before putting that hand on the ground.) This morning, however, that particular situation had changed a bit.


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## tsilver

It'sgood seeing you again on NQK and hearing all the chicken news.

Terry


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## Annalog

Thanks, Terry!

The past several months have been hectic. I am happy that life is currently providing some time for NQK and my friends on KB.


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## Annalog

Hopefully last night was the last for  temperatures in the low 20s until fall. Tonight should be around 30 F and the chickens should be aclimated OK for that. 

Last night Mr. Milquetoast knew what to expect and stepped onto the perch inside the shelter when I lifted him down from the shelter roof. I petted him for a while before he settled down to sleep for the night. I checked an hour later to verify that he had stayed inside the shelter. Once again, he was a very good rooster.


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## Meb Bryant

I really enjoy your thread, Anna. We have pet chickens living in two coops in order to separate the Bantam rooster (Teensy) from the giant red rooster we call Red. Clever, huh? They think they're house pets and come to the back door on their days out. Our customers fear Red and walk a wide berth around him until I show how tame he is, unless your name is Teensy.

When I dig up worms, they only eat grubs and don't know what to do with earthworms. We live on an acre and one-half and they keep the bugs under control; rarely do we find snakes (thank goodness).

Keep us updated on your flock.


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## Annalog

Thanks, Meb. Love the names of your roosters! They remind me of names our chickens when I was in high school. The names included Little Twerp, Hat, and Beanie. (Little Twerp was a small rooster who could be annoying but he did guard his flock. Hat was a Polish hen and Beanie was her son.) My mom brought some chicks home and we raised them in the house until they were old enough to fly and their coop was finished outside. One hen, Bourbon, would fly up to my sister's window and she would let Bourbon in. One winter, when Bourbon became broody, my mom moved her nest inside the house to the space that had previously been set up for a mother cat and her kittens. Bourbon lived a long and healthy life and was welcome inside the house. Bourbon got her name because my dad said she was the color of a fine Kentucky whiskey. 

I haven't dug up any earthworms since I have had the chickens but the chickens certainly get excited when they see a grub. The first hen to grab the grub runs away so that she can eat it before another hen tries to take it away.


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## Annalog

Now that DH is retired, he is spending time outside on various projects around the house. He lets the chickens free range when possible. DH used Mr. Milquetoast's name from the beginning and will now refer to Rosemary by name. Since those are the only two Barred Rock chickens, or "black and white" as DH knows them, they are easy to recognize.

DH has his own name for one of the other hens, Number Nine. He says that she is one of those "Ameri somethings" (Ameraucanas). She is the hen who is still outside the pen in the evening and all the other hens have gone inside. DH counts the hens, reaches 8, and then goes looking for "Number Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine". (I think she is Nutmeg but DH cannot point her out to me.)

I am glad that DH has gone from tolerating the chickens to liking them.


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## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

It's interesting to read all these news about chickens and poultry. I never thought there is so much interest. It's lot more than chicken and eggs.


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## Annalog

*DrDln* (dr.s.dhillon) said:


> It's interesting to read all these news about chickens and poultry. I never thought there is so much interest. It's lot more than chicken and eggs.


DrDln, thank you for finding this thread interesting and seeing that "It's lot more than chicken and eggs."

I believe that this thread is also about our relationships with and responsibility toward domestic fowl in our care. Even though they are considered livestock, this is not much different, if at all in some instances, from our relationships with pets such as cats or dogs.

I have been interested in birds since I was very young. (We had a budgerigar/parakeet named Mack when I was a toddler. I have been told that we played together a lot and that he would frequently sit on my head or shoulder.) While chickens won't win prizes as the most intelligent birds, I think some are much smarter than they are given credit for. I certainly know that they can communicate with me and can recognize us.


Spoiler



I know that there are some chickens and other birds waiting at the Rainbow Bridge.



ETA: A few months ago someone told me, after they heard that I had chickens, that they could not understand why people kept birds, lizards, or other such creatures as pets as it could not be possible for those animals to have a relationship similar to those that people have with cats and dogs. I had not realized how much that conversation had bothered me.


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## Annalog

Yesterday I arrived home from work in time to see DH and Mr. Milquetoast working together in getting all the hens into the coop. Mr. Milquetoast started herding the hens toward their pen when it started to get dark. DH stayed at the back to make sure one of the hens did not slip away. (DH can count much better than Mr. Milquetoast. ) When all the hens and Mr. Milquetoast were in the pen, DH closed the pen door. Mr. Milquetoast stood behind the hens, waiting for them to go up the steps and into the coop. DH closed the coop door and opened the pen door. Mr. Milquetoast then walked out of the hen pen and over to his Rooster Retreat. DH followed and then called to me asking for some chicken feed because the hens had spilled or eaten most of Mr. Milquetoast's food. (I don't know why the hens seem to like his food more than theirs; it comes out of the same bag. ) DH filled Mr. Milquetoast's feeder while I gave the hens their evening mash and counted them one more time before locking the people door. DH commented how Mr. Milquetoast worries unless he knows that all of the hens are safe for the night. 

Mr. Milquetoast is not the only one who worries.


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## tsilver

Mr Milquetoast is quite a gentleman, the way he cares for his ladies


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## Annalog

That is true most of the time, Terry. There are other times when he definitely isn't. 

Also, his name no longer fits in term of how he acts around the other roosters. Mr. Milquetoast is definitely at the top of the pecking order and the alpha male.


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## tsilver

What happened to make Mr Milquetoast the alpha male?  Did you enrich his  diet?  Or did a lady chick convince him that he was Number One?

Terry


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## Annalog

Neither, Terry. 

Mr. Milquetoast used to be one out of 15 roosters. (The 25 chicks I ordered turned out to be mostly male.) His strategy for dealing with this situation was to avoid fights and spend lots of time on top of the shelter in the Rooster Retreat. I did not keep any rooster that was aggressive to either me or DH. Eventually there were only two roosters, Lennon and Mr. Milquetoast. Lennon was kept with the hens because he was the same breed, New Hampshire, as most of the hens. As a result, he was the father of the two roosters that hatched the first year. Unfortunately Lennon died due to an injury he had received earlier from the aggressive roosters. That left Mr. Milquetoast as the only adult rooster while Thing 1 and Thing 2 were growing up and staying with the hens. We let Mr. Milquetoast free range whenever possible and he developed the normal rooster behavior. (Strut to impress the hens, tempt them with food, show them good nesting areas, challenge other roosters. The roosters are always separated by fencing of some type. Challenges look like posturing in front of a mirror where the fence material is the mirror.) As the Things got older, Thing 2 started acting like a young male and would not leave the hens alone. I built the Rooster Duplex to house Thing 1 and Thing 2. We do not let the roosters out together so it is possible that Thing 2 also thinks he is alpha male but he does not get as much free range time. Thing 1 seems to think more about food and backs down from challenges.

As a result, the hens, Mr. Milquetoast, DH, and I all think of Mr. Milquetoast as the alpha male rooster.

ETA: Added "rooster" to the above sentence. All the chickens know that DH and I are not chickens or in the pecking order. None of the roosters challenge us. 
Also added some clarification.


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## Annalog

The Things, Mr. Milquetoast, and the Spice Girls (Rosemary, Parsley, Sage, Thyme, Cumin, Ginger, Cinnamon, Clove, and Nutmeg) are enjoying the warm weather but staying in the shade. Since the temperatures are supposed to reach the high 80s today and then into the 90s this weekend, I turned on the AC in the coop this morning so that the eggs would stay fresh during the day. I will be setting up the outdoor mist systems this weekend.


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## geoffthomas

One more Happy Birthday, Anna.


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## Annalog

Thank you, GeoffThomas, for the birthday wishes!


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## tsilver

Happy Birthday Anna.  How did Geoff know  Is he a chicken person also?


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## Annalog

Thanks, Terry!

Geoff has been posting to this thread since page 2 soon after I started the thread after several Good Morning posts mentioning chickens.

Also, both Geoff and Intinst have honored me with special Happy Birthday posts on The (Almost) Official Happy Birthday Thread such as the following cake images posted by Intinst:


intinst said:


> 3/30/12
> Annalog
> *Happy Birthday!*





intinst said:


> *3/30/11*
> I couldn't find an Origami cake so I hope this will do.
> Wishing you a very Happy Birthday!
> Annalog


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## Annalog

It was not windy today so I was able to move compost to the planter I recently rebuilt that is on the east side of the coop. 

The chickens helped by eating grubs and cutworms from the planter and compost. (They also helped by producing much of the compost. )

The planter has 1/2 inch hardware cloth along the bottom to keep out gophers. It is built of 8x8x16 cement blocks that are stacked in a running bond pattern without any mortar. The outside dimensions: 4 feet wide x 2 feet high and 10 feet long. The base of the planter has been in place for a while but I recently shortened it by 2 feet. It already contained some composted litter from when the chickens were young almost 2 years ago.

I was originally going to line the inside of the planter with landscape weed barrier cloth to keep the soil from seeping between the blocks. I used empty paper feed bags instead. I had been saving all the bags from the chicken feed, scratch, and wildbird seed. I have used some for purposes such as shelf paper in the coop but the stack of empty bags has been growing. This let me use a few dozen.  The bags are at least 3 layers of paper thick, uncoated, and with very little print or dye so I do not need to worry about added chemicals in the planter. Also, since I did not cut the bags open, there are at least 6 layers of paper between the soil/compost and the blocks. By the time they decompose in the planter, the soil should be stabilized.

With all the litter from the coop (wood shavings and chicken droppings) and other stuff I have been composting for the last couple years (when I was not gardening ), I should be able to nearly fill the planter without adding much soil.

I plan to add a trellis next to the coop. This year I plan to plant luffas and zuchetta rampicante (a type of climbing mild zucchini) so that they shade the wall of the coop this summer. I will also plant some other vegetables there. Eventually this bed should have a climbing perennial fruit after I see how the veggies do in this spot.

With all of the finished compost I moved today, I now have a place to put the old litter in the coop when I clean it tomorrow. 

Edit: Corrected the height of the planter to be the final height measured from the garden path instead of the height as seen from the yard.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Annalog,
Nice to see the chickens are keeping you busy.  Now that it is Spring, has the egg production increased?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Annalog,
> Nice to see the chickens are keeping you busy. Now that it is Spring, has the egg production increased?


The 9 hens are laying between 3 to 7 eggs a day, usually 4 or 5. Today was 3 green eggs and 1 brown. Yesterday was 4 brown and 1 green.


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## tsilver

Anna
The way you're always working and planning, you make me think of pioneer women. I bet you would have fit right in--probably would have been a leader.


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## Annalog

tsilver said:


> Anna
> The way you're always working and planning, you make me think of pioneer women. I bet you would have fit right in--probably would have been a leader.


Terry, I am usually planning on how to reduce the amount of work. 

Also, the only kind of multitasking I am good at is combining a repetitive physical task, such as shoveling, with a thinking task. Since I am usually thinking about how to reduce the physical task, it is as if I am doing a form of "Time and Motion" studies on my activities. However I focus on optimizing effort, enjoyment, reuse, and benefits instead. (Yes, I am a geek!)


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## spotsmom

Just catching up on your thread, Anna. Mr. Milquetoast Rules!!!


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## Annalog

spotsmom said:


> Just catching up on your thread, Anna. Mr. Milquetoast Rules!!!


I agree, SpotsMom!!!


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## Annalog

Happy Easter to all! The hens are celebrating by laying green, blue, and brown eggs.


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## Annalog

After drawing several plans for a three-nest raised nest box to be built from PVC pipe, I bought the fittings over the past few weekends. Just as I was about to start building, DH asks me if I would like a six-nest kit (two rows of three) from a catalog as an anniversary present. (He knew that the fittings I bought could be used for other structures and would not be wasted.) We checked where in the coop the kit would fit but I decided to build the one I designed instead.

Of course, as soon as I cut the pieces for the top, I wondered if I should build a six-nest version instead. I went through four or five design iterations while checking the fittings I had available. (Ace Hardware was closed on Easter Sunday. ) I started building a six-nest version, changed the design again, and finished the framework of a raised six-nest nest box that I am happy with. I hope, after I finish the rest, that the hens will be happy with it as well.

While I was cutting pipe, I was thinking of "measure twice, cut once." For me, it should be "design several times, measure twice, cut a few pieces, assemble, design some more, measure, cut, assemble, design, measure, cut, assemble." Since all the designs were based on three nests wide and the same fittings, all the cut pieces were still the right size and were used in the structure.


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## geoffthomas

Anna,
It is the final result that matters.
And the good intentions.

Just sayin......


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## Annalog

Thanks, Geoff!

Building with PVC pipe and fittings reminds me of building with Tinker Toys when I was a kid. Because I don't glue the pipe into the fittings, I can always disassemble one structure and build another. After I replace the current nest box with the new one, I will disassemble the old one and turn it into something else.


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## MamaProfCrash

Why the new nesting boxes?


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## Annalog

ProfCrash said:


> Why the new nesting boxes?


The current nesting box has two large nests where I had originally intended 4 smaller ones. This has caused some problems when a hen currently in a nest does not want to share with a waiting hen. It has also caused problems when a hen becomes broody and wants to sit on the eggs. The new nesting box will take less space and have more nests. The individual nests will be smaller than the current nests but larger than the ones originally planned. Hopefully this will remove any need for hens to share the same nest but still provide nests that the hens find comfortable. The space saved on the people side of the coop could be used for either a broody hen or for raising chicks.


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## Annalog

I learned today that DH has his own names for Thing 1 and Thing 2. BC (Big Comb) is his name for Thing 1 while LC (Little Comb) is his name for Thing 2.


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## Annalog

I started at sunrise this morning to finish the coop spring cleaning. Unfortunately I found that mice had moved in to the coop. (Fortunately I had let DH sleep in because he would have been unhappy about dealing with the mice or seeing how the chickens dealt with them. I had finished cleaning out all the old litter and mouse nests and put in fresh wood shavings by 8 AM. I was headed into the house to take a shower just as DH was coming outside to see if I wanted to go out for an anniversary breakfast; I did but after a shower. 

We worked on the rest of the coop after breakfast and after a long lunch and shopping trip. We got to a good stopping place just after sunset. We have granddaughter plans for tomorrow so we will finish and take pictures later.


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## Carol Hanrahan

Yes, I was going to ask for pictures!
Happy (belated) Anniversary!  How many years?


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## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> Yes, I was going to ask for pictures!
> Happy (belated) Anniversary! How many years?


39 years and our 6th Friday 13th anniversary.


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## Annalog

I took these photos Sunday afternoon on 15 April, 2012. This is the result of the work DH and I did Friday and that I finished on Sunday afternoon. Remaining tasks: wash coop walls and roosts, finish back of nest box properly, move bookcase back to east wall, clean Rooster Duplex for Things 1 and 2, finish garden area in order to move Rooster Retreat with Mr. Milquetoast closer to the hens. Those tasks will need to wait a while.
















When the sun was setting and the nest box still wasn't finished, DH thought of blocking the opening with the bookcase and a scrap piece of wood. This is temporary as the fan needs to blow into the coop in a week or so when the hot temperatures arrive. Until then, this will keep the hens on their side of the coop. (The chicken coop is protected from afternoon sun and most prevailing winds by the larger shed to the west. The chickens know that there is a door to their pen at the end of the walkway but that it is usually closed. They will follow us down the walkway and expect us to open the door.) The bookcase belongs against the wall shown in the second picture. The buckets belong where the bookcase is. The feed belongs in two of the empty buckets.
















Ginger waiting for me to put mash on the table.  This photo shows why I need to wash the walls! Cinnamon (blue/green egg) and two New Hampshire hens (brown eggs) laid their eggs on the floor as they are not happy with the new nest box.
















The top row of the nest box shows how there are three nests across with a walking space at the front of the nests. The next picture shows how there are two rows of nests with a space underneath the bottom row. I cut empty feed sacks in half lengthwise along the side pleats to put over the 1/2 inch hardware cloth (wire mesh) on the bottom of each nest. The front edge of the paper is covered with plastic door mats with slits for the nest sides. Wood shavings are on top of this. The door mats provide a stable footing for the hens. The paper is to keep the wood shavings from falling through the wire mesh and because I could not find mats as large as the ones I had before. Two nests have a wooden egg to show the hens that this is a good place to lay eggs. 
















This shows the portable roost in front of the top row of nests. Hens can step across from roost to nest and back if they want to. However, the roost is placed at right angles to how it was placed before. While watching the hens, I saw that they did not like jumping up to the roost. I later put the roost back as it was before so that one end was by the chicken coop door and the other end was by the middle nest. The hens like that better as they can jump from the door or from the blocks and then walk along the roost to the nest. The second picture shows the floor area under the bottom row of nests. This nest box does not have horizontal pipe connecting the bottoms of the legs so it should be much easier to clean under this nest box. The first day, two chickens laid eggs on the floor under the nests.
















This shows the side of the nest box. The top has vinyl skirting that we removed from under our house when we added the skirting wall. This is tilted so that no chickens can sit on top of the nests. Mr. Milquetoast tried flying up to sit there on Friday but he slid off both times. He stopped trying after that. Wire blocks the sides of the nests but not the floor area. By Sunday, I realized that too much light was entering the nests from the side as it faces the window on the east wall. That makes the hens unhappy so I cut another feed sack in half and blocked the light on this side.























Dollar store shower curtains on a metal rod block access to the shelf. The bottom edges of the curtains are attached to the wire shelf with office binder clips. The chickens have not complained about my decorating choices.  The center picture shows various "chicken furniture".  The two 8"x8"x8" blocks function as steps for the chickens going in and out of the two chicken coop doors. Each door goes to roofed chainlink pens that are 7'x13'. The chickens need to enter the coop to go from one pen to another. The 8"x8"x16" blocks are used as tables for mash and water dishes. There is a dry food container hanging on a chain from the ceiling. The third picture is of the extra water dishes and the container of oyster shell attached to the lower part of the door. I am standing with my back to the end of the nest box.































Rosemary, the Barred Rock hen who needs to grow new tail feathers, and a New Hampshire hen decide to check out the people side of the coop. I opened the door and they decided to take the shortcut to their side of the coop.
















Meanwhile, another New Hampshire hen heads to the asparagus bed by jumping over the compost area that will eventually be a planter. (Yes, I know I need to cut out the dead ferns from last year and should have harvested some spears from this year.) The sink on the end of the planter was removed when my sister redid her bathroom. It is very handy in the garden!
















Mr. Milquetoast was trying to keep the hens in the pen but gave up after the first few snuck past him.























Ginger is standing on the steps to the east chicken door. The west pen has hardware cloth lining the lower half of the chain link as that is the pen we had when the chickens were young and small enough to get through chain link. Mr. Milquetoast and hens. The east pen is where the chickens get kitchen scraps such as carrot peelings and celery. (Yes, they also get my McDonald's oatmeal if I forget to eat it before lunch.  )

More pictures another day.


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Why not raising veges and fruits...lol
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,68083.75.html


----------



## Annalog

*DrDln* (dr.s.dhillon) said:


> Why not raising veges and fruits...lol
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,68083.75.html


Why not both? 

The chickens have been helping for gardening efforts this year in many ways. They have been cultivating the soil to remove invasive weeds, grubs, cutworms, and centipedes. I am hoping that they will like to eat the grasshoppers, locusts, and tomato hornworms later in the season. The chickens also eat many parts of the fruit and vegetable plants that we do not or cannot eat. In return, they provide nitrogen enriched droppings for our compost piles which is especially useful for us as our compost piles are carbon high and need more nitrogen. I am eagerly looking forward to focusing on the vegetable garden this year. Other than the two apple trees, the sweet fruits will need to wait at least another year. Fruit such as squash and tomato should be growing in the vegetable garden.


----------



## Annalog

More of the photos from Sunday afternoon on 15 April, 2012. Also, the hens seem to be used to the new nests as they have laid their eggs in the top row of nests for the last three days. The second row of nests look to have been used as waiting areas but no eggs have been laid in that row.
















Thing 2 in his side of the Rooster Duplex. He is standing on his automatic watering dish. Thing 1, in the east half of the Rooster Duplex, is standing on his short saw horse roost. The black plastic compost bin serves as a shelter and roosting platform. The two sides of the Rooster Retreat are set up as mirror images of each other. The Things often mirror each other but decided to be different for these photos. 
















The north half of the Rooster Retreat is protected by tarp-covered insulation boards that are in turn covered by latticework. This provides protection from wind, heat, and cold. The south half is open to air circulation but is covered by shade cloth. The access to sun and fresh air is helpful summer and winter. The mesquite trees to the west of the Rooster Duplex have just started getting their leaves. Soon the trees will be providing more shade. The next photo shows the walkway between the Rooster Duplex and the two pens for the hens. Their pens also have shade cloth and will be getting some shade from the mesquite tree. On the far side of the pens, it is just possible to see Mr. Milquetoast's Rooster Retreat. It is nearly 20 feet away. My goal is to eventually move it so that it is about 8 feet east of the Rooster Duplex.
















One of the hens is resting the paved part of the walkway between the pens and the duplex. Beside her is one of the holes the hens have dug for "dusting." They like to dig holes and then lay on the cool earth they have uncovered. The stack of blocks on the right raises one of the mesquite branches a few inches so that DH does not hit his head on the branch when going into Thing 2's pen. More hens. When either DH or I are outside, the hens usually come over to see what we are doing. I think they are hoping that we will uncover yummy bugs or other treats for them. If I come into the yard carrying a bag, bowl, or bucket, the hens come running, certain that I have kitchen scraps.
















Another view of the walkway. It is clear that I have lots of work to do in my garden! The hens like to go into Mr. Milquetoast's Rooster Retreat and eat his food.


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## Annalog

This afternoon, when I went into the coop, something fell from the windowsill and scuttled away. It was too large to be a mouse. When I found it, I saw it was a very large lizard; one of the types with a thick body such as an iguana or chuckwalla. It was about half a foot long, not counting the tail, and very fast. It ran to the pen door but I did not want it in the pen as the hens would attack it. I used the plastic rake to encourage the lizard to leave via the people door but, as it climbed over the short barrier door, it fell into the water bucket. I tilted the bucket and the lizard scrambled out and through the outer door. I hope it found a safe place out of the sun.


----------



## EthanRussellErway

I took my son and two of my foster kids to Olsen's grain a few days ago, and of course they decided we needed baby chicks.  They are just too cute.  Had to explain that even though our yard is big, we weren't equipped to venture into the world of chickens just yet.  Hopefully next year!


----------



## Annalog

EthanRussellErway said:


> I took my son and two of my foster kids to Olsen's grain a few days ago, and of course they decided we needed baby chicks. They are just too cute. Had to explain that even though our yard is big, we weren't equipped to venture into the world of chickens just yet. Hopefully next year!


Smart to be prepared. Much better experience that way!


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## SarahBarnard

~sigh~ 
Lovely pics. I miss my hens...


----------



## Annalog

SarahBarnard said:


> ~sigh~
> Lovely pics. I miss my hens...


They do find their way into our hearts. <3


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## Annalog

Fixed the opening between the people and hen side of the coop so that the box fan can blow into the top row of nests and the rest of the coop just in time for summer weather! Although record high temperatures for the date in other parts of the state, it only reached 91 F here. The high in the chicken coop was 97 F with the air conditioner and box fan running. I do not want to think how hot it would have become without the changes and me spraying water on the coop roof three times today. There are also two mist systems running all day, one around the hen pens and one around the Rooster Retreat.


----------



## Annalog

The new nesting box makes it easier for me to watch the hens from the people side of the coop as the light barriers are on the sides. This morning I watched Clove, one of the Easter Eggers (not quite Ameraucana), steal a wooden egg from a neighboring nest so that she could sit on two wooden eggs. She rolled the egg out of one nest, rolled it along the walkway in front of the nests, and then rolled it into her nest. I hope this means that she is going broody. It would be great if at least one hen wants to hatch eggs when it isn't winter time. 

Less than a week until their second birthday.


----------



## tsilver

Anna:

I enjoyed reading about the happenings in Chicken World and knowing by your comments  that you as well as your feathered citizens are well and thriving,  I always get good vibes from your corner of the world.

Terry


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, Terry.

I spent Friday after work, Saturday, and half of today at my mom's house. (She fell a couple weeks ago but we did not find out that she had a compression fracture of T11 vertebrae until ten days later.  My sister and I have been helping Mom as much as we can.) When I came home today I had fresh watermelon rinds for the chickens. Those rinds were down to thin skins in about an hour. 

Later in the day, while the hens were free ranging and DH was home, I went shopping. When I walked through the gate carrying a bag, Rosemary and Thyme came running at top speed and flapping their wings. I felt bad that I did not have a treat for them; they looked so expectant and excited!


----------



## Annalog

Happy Birthday to Mr. Milquetoast and the Spice Girls (Ginger, Cinnamon, Clove, Nutmeg, Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, Thyme, and Cumin). They hatched two years ago today. I will be stopping at the grocery store on my way home to buy their birthday watermelon and veggies. Thing 1 and Thing 2 will be two years old on December 8th but they will also share in the birthday goodies.


----------



## Meb Bryant

I have an announcement: we have a new grandchicken hatched today. Crazy Momma (a gift from a customer who stays in a perpetual brooch state) is a game hen who lays white eggs, but is only allowed to sit on tame brown eggs. A stillborn earlier this week had us worried she wouldn't have anybody for the nursery.

She has one egg left, which might be a double yoke. Do they hatch?

BTW, chicks raised by insane hens, although birthed by calm hens and sweet roosters, are crazy as bed bugs too. I guess it's nurture, not nature, in the poultry world.


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## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> I have an announcement: we have a new grandchicken hatched today. Crazy Momma (a gift from a customer who stays in a perpetual brooch state) is a game hen who lays white eggs, but is only allowed to sit on tame brown eggs. A stillborn earlier this week had us worried she wouldn't have anybody for the nursery.
> 
> She has one egg left, which might be a double yoke. Do they hatch?
> 
> BTW, chicks raised by insane hens, although birthed by calm hens and sweet roosters, are crazy as bed bugs too. I guess it's nurture, not nature, in the poultry world.


Meb, congratulations on the grandchicken. Will pictures be possible? 

Nurture is very important in the poultry world. If by "crazy" you mean skittish, is it possible to handle and play with the chicks after they are a few days old or does Crazy Momma make that impossible? According to what I read, chicks raised by hens, even tame ones, tend to be more skittish than chicks raised by people because they have less human interaction. When Thyme hatched chicks, after the chicks were almost a week old, I would add time for play every time I changed the water, food, etc. It seemed to help. But Thyme is relatively calm.


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Annalog said:


> Why not both?
> The chickens have been helping for gardening efforts this year in many ways. They have been cultivating the soil to remove invasive weeds, grubs, cutworms, and centipedes. I am hoping that they will like to eat the grasshoppers, locusts, and tomato hornworms later in the season. The chickens also eat many parts of the fruit and vegetable plants that we do not or cannot eat. In return, they provide nitrogen enriched droppings for our compost piles which is especially useful for us as our compost piles are carbon high and need more nitrogen. I am eagerly looking forward to focusing on the vegetable garden this year. Other than the two apple trees, the sweet fruits will need to wait at least another year. Fruit such as squash and tomato should be growing in the vegetable garden.


You have some great ideas. I will not raise chickens and poultry. I am not too good at gardening either. But I have three citrus plants and also some almond, plum, and apricot fruit trees. These are all doing great. This will be the first year that I will get plums, apricots, and few almonds. I really love to look at these plants growing...


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## Meb Bryant

Annalog said:


> Meb, congratulations on the grandchicken. Will pictures be possible?
> 
> Nurture is very important in the poultry world. If by "crazy" you mean skittish, is it possible to handle and play with the chicks after they are a few days old or does Crazy Momma make that impossible? According to what I read, chicks raised by hens, even tame ones, tend to be more skittish than chicks raised by people because they have less human interaction. When Thyme hatched chicks, after the chicks were almost a week old, I would add time for play every time I changed the water, food, etc. It seemed to help. But Thyme is relatively calm.


I fear for my face when I get near Crazy Momma's new chick. I will have to stalk that chick with a large fishing net. You're so right...the chicks I raised are like dogs with feathers. Her offspring are like bats out of hell. Thankfully, I hand raised the roosters or they would be dinner.

I'll try to learn how to upload my camera and put the pics up here.


----------



## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> I fear for my face when I get near Crazy Momma's new chick. ...


It may be easier in a few weeks when the chick is exploring away from Crazy Momma.

How does Crazy Momma or the other "bats out of hell" react if you sit quietly nearby? I do that periodically as a few of my hens are more skittish than the others. Of course the scratch sprinkled near my feet doesn't hurt the response either.  I am sure they think of me as "bringer of treats." 

I saw my mom tame a very skittish adult hen when I was young. It took many days of catching the hen and then holding her quietly and petting her until she calmed down. (I think she did that two or three times a day for a couple weeks.) After a while, the hen would run to my mom to be petted before the hen would eat. While that would not work with a hen with chicks, it might work with a couple of the others.


----------



## NapCat (retired)

Annalog said:


> Happy Birthday to Mr. Milquetoast and the Spice Girls (Ginger, Cinnamon, Clove, Nutmeg, Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, Thyme, and Cumin).



Belated Birthday wishes from all of us at the Lighthouse Ranch


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## Annalog

Mr. Milquetoast and the Spice Girls thank all of their friends at the Lighthouse Ranch!


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## Meb Bryant

I wanted to give an update on our baby chick hatched 3 weeks ago. Baby Jack (named by grandson) was almost kidnapped by a kindergartner yesterday. Crazy Momma (hen's name) flew to the rescue and thwarted the kidnapping attempt. The kindergartner, although unharmed, learned a valuable lesson when the entire flock jumped into the fray. I was like an interceptor missile between the flock and the child.


----------



## Annalog

This morning I finally gave Thing 2's half of the rooster duplex the spring cleaning it needed. (It is amazing how much time I now have; layoffs will do that.) I will clean Thing 1's side when it is cooler, either this afternoon or Thursday morning. When it was cooler a few weeks ago, DH filled in hole in the garden and laid pavers so that we can  move Mr. Milquetoast's rooster retreat closer to the other chickens. He will like that and it will free a garden bed for monsoon planting.

Now to find some new egg-based main  dishes.


----------



## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> I wanted to give an update on our baby chick hatched 3 weeks ago. Baby Jack (named by grandson) was almost kidnapped by a kindergartner yesterday. Crazy Momma (hen's name) flew to the rescue and thwarted the kidnapping attempt. The kindergartner, although unharmed, learned a valuable lesson when the entire flock jumped into the fray. I was like an interceptor missile between the flock and the child.


WOW! I was wondering how the chick was doing but I never would have thought he could be napped by a kid!

So glad no chick or child was harmed!


----------



## MamaProfCrash

Sorry to hear that you were laid off. At least you have a good source of food to make life a bit easier.


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, ProfCrash. I am close to retirement age so DH and I are doing OK. As long as one of us finds a job by the end of the year, we don't need to worry. (If DH had not retired last year, we would not need to worry about health insurance.)


----------



## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> I wanted to give an update on our baby chick hatched 3 weeks ago. Baby Jack (named by grandson) was almost kidnapped by a kindergartner yesterday. Crazy Momma (hen's name) flew to the rescue and thwarted the kidnapping attempt. The kindergartner, although unharmed, learned a valuable lesson when the entire flock jumped into the fray. I was like an interceptor missile between the flock and the child.


Meb, if you need help posting photos, PM me.


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## Meb Bryant

Annalog,
I am getting closer to Crazy Momma, but she is still a fierce protector of the chick. Today she was outside the nest and Baby Jack couldn't find the door, so it screamed and panicked. Crazy Momma did not attack me, as usual. We are making strides. lol


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## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> Annalog,
> I am getting closer to Crazy Momma, but she is still a fierce protector of the chick. Today she was outside the nest and Baby Jack couldn't find the door, so it screamed and panicked. Crazy Momma did not attack me, as usual. We are making strides. lol


That Crazy Momma seems to be getting used to you being close is good to hear, Meb! She may remember you protecting Baby Jack by staying between him and the chicknapper.


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## Annalog

The litter (wood chips and chicken poop) that has been composting for two years has been moved into a raised bed planter on the east side of the coop. It has been mixed with sifted desert soil. (Sifted by putting half inch hardware cloth over the top of the planter. If it did not go through the screen, it was brushed into the path.  ) There is an 8 inch space above the soil/compost. I planted seeds today and put the screen back on top so that the plants will be safe from the chickens until I get a trellis built and temporary fencing. I posted what I planted in 
Why not raising Veges and Fruits?

The chickens helped in the composting by stirring the compost while looking for bugs, in addition to providing the poop. 

Happy Summer Solstice!


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## Annalog

I added a mist system (6 misters) to the roof of the coop in an attempt to keep the coop cooler. If this works then we can stop spraying  the roof with water every couple hours.


----------



## Annalog

Annalog said:


> I added a mist system (6 misters) to the roof of the coop in an attempt to keep the coop cooler. If this works then we can stop spraying the roof with water every couple hours.


It is working as well as spraying the roof. However there is now more water pooling between the planter and the coop. I am off to Ace Hardware for a gutter to add to the coop. I will have the runoff go to the planter. 

I noticed that one of the recent winds broke the zip ties holding the latticework in place over the north side of the Rooster Duplex. I used wire this time to hold the latticework in place.


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## Annalog

The Easter Egger (almost Ameraucana) hens are much less active in this heat than the Barred Rock and New Hampshire hens. The Easter Eggers sit at the north end of the pens directly under the mist system while the other hens will rush out the pen door as soon as I open it to let them free range. The first Easter Egger to come out of the pen is always Cinnamon, the one without a beard. She doesn't seem to  mind the heat as much as the others. I wonder if it is because she is missing the beard feathers that are typical of Ameraucanas.

Since it has been too hot most of the day for the chickens to want to be in the sun, I put the last of the bale of alfalfa in the east pen and have given the hens extra veggies. This lets them be active outside in the shaded pen. (The shade  cloth is two years old and holding up well.)

I am definitely hoping monsoon arrives soon. This afternoon we got the clouds and wind but no rain.


----------



## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> Annalog,
> I am getting closer to Crazy Momma, but she is still a fierce protector of the chick. Today she was outside the nest and Baby Jack couldn't find the door, so it screamed and panicked. Crazy Momma did not attack me, as usual. We are making strides. lol


Meb, are you still making progress with Crazy Momma and the chick? The chick must be getting pretty big by now.


----------



## Annalog

Planting seeds in the garden can be challenging while the chickens are free-ranging.


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## Annalog

Three hens, Rosemary, Parsley, and Cumin, are fearless when either DH or I are digging in the garden. They like to check for bugs just inches away from the shovel or where we are throwing the dirt. They trust us to watch out for  them.


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## Annalog

This summer, mice have moved in to the hen coop and are also digging into the Rooster Duplex. I am currently trying Oil of Peppermint to cause them to move elsewhere. (Apparently mice are allergic to peppermint.) Yesterday I put drops of the peppermint oil on cotton balls and put them various places on the people side of the coop. I left the hen doors open last night for additional ventilation as I have read that the peppermint fumes could cause problems for the hens. Currently the hens do not seem affected. I added more peppermint oil today, this time on small pieces of paper towel. I am not putting the oil directly on anything in the coop so that it will be easy to remove if I notice the hens having problems.

The chicken food is stored in covered plastic buckets that the mice cannot get in. However there is a hanging feeder and the food that the hens spill while eating. The food in the Rooster Duplex can also be accessed by mice. I am now planning on taking the feeders out of the coop and duplex each evening.

Any other suggestions for getting rid of mice without endangering the chickens?

ETA: Found 1 Mouse + Vegetable Oil = Mess and will also try used kitty litter.


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## Annalog

Did not see any mice this morning but that may be because they were sleeping or out this early in the morning. It is not often that I wake the hens in the summertime. They all stayed on their roosts while I cleaned and filled their water containers and put out mash and dry food. The roosters, however, had been awake for at least an hour.  Only Thing 1 walked around outside while I was in his pen. All three roosters looked as if they thought I was crazy feeding them before sunrise. Couldn't I tell it was too early? Rosemary was first out in the pen to eat the scratch. I finished all the chores before sunrise and was back in the house by 5:15 AM. Plenty of time to shower, dress, eat, drive 50+ miles to Bisbee and find a good parking spot. Taking both Kindles AND a paper library book to jury duty.


----------



## Meb Bryant

Annalog said:


> Meb, are you still making progress with Crazy Momma and the chick? The chick must be getting pretty big by now.


Crazy Momma is still Crazy Momma, but after we killed a 4 1/2' chicken snake Saurday night, she is less leary of us. While I was in hot pursuit of knocking the snake out of one hen house, it threaded through the cyclone into the adjoining hen house. My husband was screaming, "Your daughter is on the phone." "I'm yelling not now, killing snake." He continues to scream at me until he finally hears snake. I hear him scream into the phone, "Your mother is killing a snake and all hell is breaking loose."

We were alternating pens keeping roosters separated, holding the halogen light on the culprit while trying to do him in. The hens were screaming and Baby Jack almost layed an egg (although she's only 10 weeks old) The ONLY chicken to aid in the attack on the snake was...Crazy Momma. She's a fierce warrior.


----------



## Annalog

Meb Bryant said:


> Crazy Momma is still Crazy Momma, but after we killed a 4 1/2' chicken snake Saurday night, she is less leary of us. ... The ONLY chicken to aid in the attack on the snake was...Crazy Momma. She's a fierce warrior.


Wow! It sounds as if she may consider you allies.


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## Meb Bryant

Annalog,
We both looked that snake in the eye and thought, "This is the big one." My sweet tiny rooster (who's never pecked anybidy in 9 years) got tired of us trying to pull the snake out of the cyclone and wasting his sleeping time. So he started pecking my husband's arm which was holding the snake's head in shears. We looked like the three stooges. The snake wasn't happy either.


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## Annalog

The peppermint oil seems to have moved most of the mice out of the coop but into the rooster duplex. However it appears that mouse scouts (no nests or babies) stayed in the coop. Taking down the feeders every night helped. 

This morning, since chance of rain is down to 20%, I took everything out of the people side of the coop and have the stuff on the patio table and chairs out in the sun. I took a shower and will go out for breakfast. 

I am stopping at Ace on the way home to  see what open shelving is available. The bookcase is not going back into the coop as it provided hiding places for the mice. Everything that goes back into the coop will be in closed plastic containers with at least a couple inches of open space to prevent hiding places. The exception will be open cans of fresh, used kitty litter. I sent several opened tunafish cans, that I had been saving for this purpose, through the dishwasher yesterday. I will be cleaning the coop today and expect this will be a three or four shower day. 

I will tackle the rooster duplex another day.


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## prairiesky

I had no idea that keeping a few chickens would be soooo much work.  It makes me tired, just hearing of the work you do.  Getting a few chickens sounds like such as good idea; until I come here to read your blog.  I do love hearing about your spice girls etc.  Easier to read than to do.....


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## Annalog

Keeping a few hens, especially if you have a fenced yard, is easy. Learning how to keep a small flock that includes roosters with the intent to hatch chicks is more work. Especially when in an area with few fences and while trying to encourage some of the local wildlife, such as the quail, hummingbirds, horned lizards, and roadrunners. That means, for me, no use of poison except walled away under the house (for termites and mice) 

Also, I usually want to design and build things for myself. Buying a coop and run kit would be too easy! 

Most of the time, caring for the chickens takes 15 minutes in the morning and evening. 

Also, we have had problems with mice long before we had chickens. About five years ago mice nested under our house and chewed holes in the water lines. The work to prevent future occurrences of that took most of a summer.

Maybe DH and I always seem to find the most difficult way to solve problems!


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## Annalog

Annalog said:


> .... I will be cleaning the coop today and expect this will be a three or four shower day. ...


I seriously overestimated how bad the coop cleanup would be. Emptying the people side this morning before breakfast and moving out the bookcase by myself was the worst part; the rest turned out to be the normal cleaning the coop needed anyway. While I am not yet finished, today will only require two showers as I did not start back on the coop until long after lunch.  I found no sign of mice in the chicken side of the coop which is not surprising as the hens kill any mice they can reach.

I also think I found what attracted the mice. The air conditioner was dripping inside the coop again. DH will need to fix that after he gets home tomorrow.


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## Annalog

I cleaned the coop with white vinegar which mice are supposed to hate but is safe for chickens. (Bleach is not as safe for chickens or me.) I did not have time to put the tuna cans of used kitty litter in the people side of the coop before dark and dinner.

When I went out after dinner and after the lights were out in the coop, there were three mice trying to hide from the light from my headlamp. After I placed the cans in appropriate places, I decided that I needed to use the live mouse trap lent to me by the local feed store where I buy my organic layer feed. While I suspect that the kitty litter may discourage new mice, I doubt that the ones who have already decided that the coop is there home will not leave. I wore gloves while handling the trap and added three slices of apple with peanut butter. I placed this on the floor in the people side of the coop. I will see what I find tomorrow morning.


Spoiler



I am not looking forward to disposing of mice. 



Update: The live trap attracted only lots of ants. It is no longer in the coop. I hope it was the cat smell from the kitty litter and not the light that chased them away as I cannot stand guard in the coop all night.


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## Annalog

Forgetful Anna -- Smart chickens. I was hungry and decided to fix dinner early before rounding up the free-ranging chickens. (I  usually round up the chickens first.) However by the time I finished eating dinner, I had forgotten that I had not put the chickens in their pen. After it was dark outside, DH asked me if I had put the hens to bed yet. Yikes, I had completely forgotten about them. I put on the headlamp and went outside. I did not see any chickens in the pens and shut the doors to the coop. Mr. Milquetoast was perched on top of the structure in his pen so I closed that door as well. I checked inside the coop. Seven hens were perched on the roosts and the other two were walking around. All was well. The hens had put themselves to bed.


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## Annalog

Garden and chicken crossover post. I have learned that my chickens like to eat oat plants more than they like to eat rapeseed (canola) plants.  One month from planting seed to feeding chickens.



Annalog said:


> ... Planted a new 4x8 garden bed with oats and rapeseed as a cover crop and chicken treats. ...


The heat and lack of rain is causing the oats and rapeseed (canola) I planted to wilt. I watered them last night and let the chickens in to that garden bed this afternoon. Happy chickens.


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## Annalog

Another garden and chicken crossover post. Warning: Chickens are omnivores.

While using a garden fork to turn over the remains of the oat and canola plants that had been demolished by the chickens, I dug up an underground nest of mice. The hens were out in the garden at the time. Hens are faster than mice.


----------



## Annalog

Annalog said:


> ... I also think I found what attracted the mice. The air conditioner was dripping inside the coop again. DH will need to fix that after he gets home tomorrow.


It is more than two weeks after "tomorrow" but the air conditioner dripping was fixed, we hope, today. (The air conditioner dripping was also a problem last summer and was supposed to be fixed "when the weather was cooler". Of course, by then DH had forgotten it needed fixing. )

The humidity has gone up so much that there was now standing water on the floor under the air conditioner. DH took the window air conditioner down and partially disassembled it. He also drilled holes in the bottom of the unit so that the water should drip away from the outside of the coop. I cleaned the various parts and the "window" sill while he worked on the sheet metal tray that would go over the sill and under the air conditioner to keep any water from dripping down the coop wall. The air conditioner was cleaned, dried, reassembled, and replaced in the opening in the side of the coop. The air conditioner blew cool air when I turned it on.  Everything was completed and put away before it became windy and before the storm clouds arrived. We should learn soon if our efforts to stop the water inside the coop are successful.


----------



## NapCat (retired)

From all of us at the Lighthouse Ranch...Have a Happy Day !!


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## Annalog

Thanks, NapCat, for the Red Hen Boogie!


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## Annalog

This summer has seemed even hotter than last year. There is an air conditioner and a fan running nearly continuously inside the coop, there are water misters on the roof of the coop and around the perimeter of the pens, and the hens and the Things have water dishes that they can stand in to cool their feet and legs.

Cinnamon started acting listless on Monday. She definitely was not doing the Red Hen Boogie! 

When she was completely uninterested in scratch (chicken candy) Tuesday morning, I decided to give her a soak in a tub of cool water. This helped last summer when she became overheated and possibly dehydrated. Since she is one of the timid Easter Egger hens, the fact that I could just pick her up from the roost was a sign she did not feel well.

This time the soak in the tub did not work as well as last time but she did perk up a bit. After changing the water in the tub, I decided it should be Spa Day for as many hens as I could catch. I decided that the hens that were the easiest to catch needed the soak in cool water the most. Thyme, Ginger, and Saffron also got to soak in the tub. All of them seemed to enjoy it once they realized it was safe. During the afternoon, when I let the hens free range, Cinnamon decided to stay in the pen.

I also added a bit more apple cider vinegar when I filled the water containers inside the coop. They seem to drink more water when I do that.

It rained yesterday and cooled off a bit but this morning Cinnamon was still listless. Once again, she essentially ignored scratch I held in front of her. However, she did jump down and investigate it after I moved away. We had a few more thunderstorms today. While it was cool this afternoon, Cinnamon decided she would explore outside the pen today. She seems nearly back to normal.


----------



## Annalog

During the heat of summer, most of the hens have stopped laying. I have been getting one or two brown eggs a day. The blue/green eggs from the Easter Eggers have been nonexistent. The past couple weeks there have been a few membrane eggs which is a sign of hens beginning or ending a period of laying eggs. Today there was a very pale blue egg! One of the Easter Eggers has started laying again.


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## Annalog

I have purchased a shirt with the design below from shirt.woot.com.  I missed it when it was the shirt of the day. 








In all the years I have played Zelda, I never thought of attacking the chickens. I see it was just as well.


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## Annalog

Today DH wanted to let the cats out into the backyard since it has cooled off. He is also hoping that the scent of the cats will deter rodents. I made sure Mr. Milquetoast and the other chickens were in their pens. Anytime a cat was in view of Mr. Milquetoast, he and the other two roosters, Thing 1 and Thing 2, started loud alarm calls (same call a hen makes shortly after leaving the nest after laying an egg).

I stayed near the chicken pens until both cats were back inside. I also found a squash that had grown too big and cut it up for the hens. I picked some large purple beans and distributed those to the roosters and hens.

Yesterday the hens laid four eggs. Autumn and slightly cooler weather have arrived!


----------



## Annalog

This past week one of the metal poultry watering fountains, that my mom used in the 60s and 70s when we had chickens, sprung a leak.  I will need to decide what to use it for now. 

For now I put the other metal fountain in Mr. Milquetoast's Rooster Retreat but I will need to decide if I should try to repair it, buy another metal one or get another automatic waterer.

  

or


----------



## Annalog

Because it was windy, I went out a little earlier than usual to put the chickens in their coop for the night. I thought that a few of the hens did not want to go through the pen door because it was early. Then I saw what the hens saw:























Behind the chair was a Gila monster; it was about a foot long. I do not know if this fellow was there a couple hours earlier when I was sitting in that chair. 

We carefully moved the chair to get some better photos.
















DH and I got all the hens in their coop before taking the photos above.

ETA: I read online that a chicken will die in 20 seconds to 7 minutes if Gila monster venom is injected into its chest. It was not clear if that was from a bite or during an experiment. Gila monsters eat eggs, baby rodents, and small birds. I could not find if Gila monsters would attack chickens that got too close or if chickens would either attack or avoid Gila monsters. I did let Mr. Milquetoast out of his pen this morning but I am not sure if I should let the hens free range or if I should put Mr. Milquetoast back into his pen. The chain link fencing will not keep the Gila monster out. The hen pen that has the 1/2 hardware cloth along the bottom few feet won't keep it out either as Gila monsters can climb.

Second ETA: I decided to let the hens free range this afternoon as usual. All the hens were fine when I put them in the coop and the roosters were fine in their pens. We will just be careful.

From Wikipedia:


> ...
> It is estimated that the Gila monster spends 95% of its time underground in mammal burrows or rocky shelters. It is active in the morning during the dry season (spring and early summer); later in the summer, it may be active on warm nights or after a thunderstorm.
> ...
> lt feeds upon small birds, mammals, frogs, lizards, insects, and carrion. The Gila monster feeds primarily on bird and reptile eggs, and eats infrequently (only five to ten times a year in the wild), but when it does feed, it may eat up to one-third of its body mass. It uses its extremely acute sense of smell to locate prey, especially eggs. Its sense of smell is so keen that it can locate and dig up chicken eggs buried 15 centimetres (5.9 in) deep and accurately follow a trail made by rolling an egg.
> ...


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

What did you do with the Gila Monster?  Do you think there are more of them?  He looks creepy.......


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## Annalog

We left the Gila Monster alone and have not seen it since. I would not expect to see many as they are a protected species and are fairly rare, especially in areas with a lot of people. I was surprised to see this one.

I have been careful to have a light when I go outside after dusk or before sunrise. Of course, I would be doing that anyway as rattlesnakes are also still about at this time of year.

Also, I have not seen any mice for the last few days. The changes we have made recently, plus the two predators (Colorado River toad and Gila Monster), seem to have thinned the rodent population. As the food supply moves, so do the predators.


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## Annalog

Cleaned the two halves of the Rooster Duplex Sunday and Monday. Each half took about 2 hours for the post-monsoon autumn cleaning.

Cleaning the Rooster Retreats involves carrying the compost bin out, washing it and letting it dry in the sun, carrying out the two cement blocks used as chicken tables, washing them and letting them dry in the sun, standing inside the pen and shoveling out the used litter into a wheelbarrow, dumping the used litter in the planter currently being used for composting, bringing the bin and blocks back, adding a bale of wood shavings, replacing the water and food dishes, and fetching the appropriate rooster.

I did some remodeling by adding 11 capstones to one side and 14 capstones to the other side of which 4 capstones are shared. Hopefully the remodeling will prevent mice from digging behind the interior shelters where the roosters cannot go.

When I let Thing Two back into his half of the duplex, he went straight to the fluffy shavings inside the shelter, made a nest, settled down, and started calling (cooing) to the hens that he had a perfect place for them to lay eggs. 

Mr. Milquetoast also tries to show the hens where to lay their eggs. Since he has access to the coop, he often gets into one of the lower nest boxes and calls the hens. The hens, however, always use the upper nesting boxes since those are higher and cooler. It is funny to see a large rooster sitting in a nesting box intended for a much smaller hen.


----------



## JRTomlin

I"ve always been tempted to try raising chickens if I ever lived somewhere it was a possibility. This in spite of having been traumatized as a child by my grandmother's Rooster-From-Hell. If I did, I"m sure they'd never lay and egg and I'd get a bee hive and get stung for good measure, so maybe I should stick to city living and find eggs at the farmer's market.


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## Annalog

DH had been traumatized by his grandfather's chickens when he was a child. He was sure that he would not like the roosters. Therefore, temperament was one of the characteristics I used when deciding on which breeds of chickens I would get. I chose relatively mellow breeds. Mr. Milquetoast was the smartest and friendliest of the roosters from the box of 25 chicks. (I was hoping for more hens and fewer roosters. ) However, in my opinion, any Rooster-From-Hell is a candidate for Coq au Vin!

Now DH and Mr. Milquetoast are good buddies, especially as the two work well together to round up the hens in the evening.

We did have a swarm of bees try to move into one of the sheds. I sprinkled a lot of ground cinnamon around the inside of the shed and the bees left. (I had read online that bees do not like cinnamon.)


----------



## Annalog

I learned the other evening that the hens are afraid if I enter the coop wearing a navy shirt and tan pants. I think the shirt might look like an owl or hawk. I will need to keep a light-colored shirt handy and change if I need to check on the chickens after work.


----------



## Fredster

Lots of chickens here, maybe 50 or so. Egg production has been abysmal the last week or so. Shorter days, and all that. Monday was a 4-egg day!

Slackers, the lot of 'em.


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## Annalog

So two eggs a day from my nine hens isn't too bad.


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## Annalog

My  chickens seem afraid of me when I wear my work clothes for my new job (tan pants and navy shirt). I thought that maybe the dark shirt made them think of hawks. Today I learned that the shirt color does not matter; it is the tan pants. Maybe they make me look like a dog or coyote? 

Rosemary has been acting unwell the past few days starting about the time the weather turned colder. She was out hunting bugs with the other hens today but still is not back to normal.


----------



## Annalog

After about a week of getting better and acting nearly normally, Rosemary took a turn for the worse today and stopped eating and drinking. I have been trying to get water with electrolytes into her but could only get her to accept a few swallows. I bought some live mealworms to tempt her but she was not interested. We have isolated her from the other hens by setting up an area on the "people" side of the coop with a heat lamp, food, water, perch, and litter. She and the other hens are separated by the screen door.


----------



## NapCat (retired)

*ROSEMARY*


----------



## Annalog

Rest in peace, Rosemary. She died in her sleep this evening. 

Rosemary was the smartest and most adventurous of the hens. She was usually the first hen out of the coop each morning, the first to arrive to hunt for grubs when we dug in the garden, and the farthest from the pen when the hens were free ranging. Rosemary was small for her breed (Barred Plymouth Rock) but that did not stop her from maintaining her place in the flock.

We will miss her.


----------



## NapCat (retired)

So sorry Anna~
GoodBye Rosemary, Thanks for being such a happy presence on the KB


----------



## Annalog

Thank you, NapCat.

Today she will be laid to rest under the mesquite where Buttons, our loved cat, Lennon, my loved and musical rooster, and Saffron, my mellow hen, have been buried. Eventually we will put a bench there for contemplation and meditation.


----------



## MamaProfCrash

How long do most chickens live?


----------



## B-Kay 1325

Anna, I'm sorry for your loss.  I know how much your flock means to you and I'm sure that placing Rosemary with the other beloved pets and the placement of a bench will give you many happier memories and contemplation (also should make for a nice reading spot).

Brenda


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## Annalog

MamaProfCrash said:


> How long do most chickens live?


The natural lifespan of chickens is in the 8 to 20 year range depending on breed. Some production breeds live 2-3 years. Meat hybrids rarely survive past 6-8 months due to rapid growth and heart failure.


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## Annalog

B-Kay 1325 said:


> Anna, I'm sorry for your loss. I know how much your flock means to you and I'm sure that placing Rosemary with the other beloved pets and the placement of a bench will give you many happier memories and contemplation (also should make for a nice reading spot).
> 
> Brenda


Thank you, Brenda.


----------



## spotsmom

Oh gosh, Anna, I'm so sorry to hear about Rosemary!!!  Sounds like she was quite the girl.  I'm glad she's being buried with some of her friends.  I'm thinking of you.


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, SpotsMom.


----------



## Annalog

Three days ago I attached a tarp (9' x 12') over the roof, top three feet and northern back of Mr. Milquetoast's pen. We attached  two 4' x 8' plastic lattice panels over that on the roof and plan to put more over the tarp on the sides and back. He is not sure he likes the addition but I was glad that we did it before the winter storm blew through here yesterday. It kept him dry through the freezing rain and I am sure it was warmer for him since he usually sleeps on top of the interior shelter instead of inside it.


----------



## Carrien

Hi
I just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed your thread...and your passion for your flock, . A few years ago we stored our boat in this guys yard and we were there early spring to get ready for the season and I was sitting on the ground doing bottom paint when this hen came over checked out what I was doing and decided to sit on my lap....I wasn't sure what to do....the owner said oh she likes you, she wants to be petted...so I gently petted her and she was making I guess chicken noises very softly which brought the other hens and there must be a hierarchy as one bumped her off my lap to get on and I couldn't stop laughing...my husband was saying come on paint...I said I can't I have a chicken on my lap.....I never thought of chickens as friendly and when I read your blog I think of those chickens.  They were small and red in color but glossy feathers, I don't recall what kind they were.
Thanks
Carrie


----------



## Carol Hanrahan

Oh that is funny!  A chicken on her lap!

Sorry about your loss, Anna.  (I'm just catching up on your thread.)

8 to 20 years is amazing!  I never knew a chicken could live that long.


----------



## Annalog

Carrie, thanks for telling about the hens. I can picture them on your lap!

Thank you, Carol.


----------



## Annalog

DH and I are going on vacation with our daughter and granddaughters to Orlando and Disney World. 

We have someone coming over once each day to feed the chickens, collect eggs, feed the cats, etc. Therefore we will be leaving the two chicken doors from the coop to the covered outside pens open so that the hens can be outside during the day. We started leaving one door open about a week ago so that the hens could get used to the colder nighttime temperatures; three days ago we started leaving both doors open. The hens like this as they don't need to wait for us in the morning. The forecast for the next eight days has temperatures ranging from 26 F up to 53 F with skies ranging from clear to mostly cloudy so that should be fine for the hens and the roosters. (ETA: Our outdoor thermometer said 19 F and inside the coop was 27 F. Still OK.)  They will not get to do any free ranging while we are gone so I am expecting  them to complain to me when I get back. (The cats will complain to DH.) 

The "chicken sitter" came over last week so that I could show her the changes since last year and to reintroduce her and the roosters. I wanted to verify that the roosters would still be calm and well behaved. They were all very good boys. 

Hopefully all will go as smoothly for the chickens and the "chicken sitter" this year as it did last year.


----------



## Annalog

After a night of 10 F where our house pipes froze because we did not leave a faucet dripping, we had four nights of single digit (6 F for two nights) temperatures. I added a double layer of garden frost protection cloth to the uncovered front of Mr. Milquetoast's pen roof as well as a red spotlight. I did not make changes to the Things pens as they have insulation between two layers of tarp and are able to share their draft-free space. I also added a red spotlight inside the coop so that the hens water would not freeze solid in the glass jars. I kept 8 gallon jugs of water in the coop as all of the outside water hoses were frozen. 

Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning, Thing 2 (also known as BC for his big comb and wattles) had frostbite on the back of his comb and bottom edges of his wattles. I put triple antibiotic cream on the frost bite and shea butter on all of his comb and wattles. Thing 1 (or LC) had a small spot of frostbite and received the same treatment. Mr. Milquetoast only received the shea butter treatment.

This morning Thing 2's comb and wattles look much better. Only one small blister left and only one point is dark. Thing 1 also looks better with no blisters and one dark point. The low last night was 19 F and no more single digit temperatures are forecast for the next  week or so.


----------



## HAGrant

Annalog, I'm sorry you lost Rosemary. but I love reading this thread. It's so refreshing. I feel like I've taken a trip out to the country. We had banty chickens as pets when I was a child and named them after the Beatles. They were colorful little birds that ranged across the yard. Ringo, a beautiful black rooster with bright feathers, would run up the driveway to greet us when we pulled in from school.


----------



## Annalog

HAGrant, I can picture Ringo running up the drive to greet you.  When the hens are out one or two will run to greet me, usually Parsley and Cumin. I still miss Rosemary.


----------



## NapCat (retired)




----------



## Annalog

Wonderful!


----------



## HAGrant

NapCat said:


>


I love this photo!

Here's a chicken story. I volunteered for Mother Teresa's order in Washington, D.C. for several years in the mid-1990s (volunteered/lived in the building, the way some people work for the Peace Corps). There were about 60 sisters in the building, 5 or 6 who ran the building and the rest who lived in two groups who were there to reflect before they took final vows.

A retired volunteer named John was always playing pranks on the sisters. When Mother Teresa came to visit the week of her birthday, he set up a treasure hunt that ended with a birthday cake with trick candles on the kitchen table. Mother Teresa tried and tried to blow the candles out, but she couldn't do it. She took the cake back into the convent, saying, "Come, my sisters, together we can do this." (true story - I have dozens of them)

John played a lot of other tricks. One year he gave them two lambs, not the kind in the freezer, but the ba-ba woolly walking around kind. The lambs lived in a wooded, fenced area beside the building until they got too smelly and then went to a farm.

Back to the chickens, one year John gave the sisters a bunch of chicks. The chicks grew up to be a flock of large white chickens that ran around outside. A mean white rooster ruled over the harem and would try to attack people who went in that area (which was a problem, because the sisters hung their laundry out to dry there). However, everybody else loved the chickens. The building had an AIDS hospice (there was little medicine for AIDS at the time and people just died, very sad), plus elderly homeless who lived there in a different wing; they all loved watching the chickens from the windows.

One day all the chickens vanished. Stunned, I asked a sister what happened to them. She took a finger and made a knife gesture across her throat. "_How could you do that_?" I asked her. She told me that it wasn't her group. "It was the other sisters," she said. "I am like Pontius Pilate. I wash my hands of it."


----------



## Annalog

HAGrant, Thanks for telling us that story!


----------



## Annalog

Update: None of the roosters seem to have had any permanent damage from frostbite. Thing 2 still has some blisters that are healing well. New skin is growing under the blistered areas. 

The hens seem to miss eating the ice I would dump from the water dishes each morning.

Four hens are back to laying regularly.


----------



## ak rain

So I plan to build a chicken pen this spring and get just meat birds this summer. We won't be ready for chickens this winter.
We plan on Red Rangers from http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/index.html
I have a month before I can order and the grounds gotta thaw before I can put in posts

Wish me luck
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Wishing you luck and a wonderful experience. I forget, have you raised chickens before?

I looked at Google images and they look like New Hampshires in color but heftier in build. Will you be processing them yourself or having someone else do it?


----------



## ak rain

My family had/has chickens when I was a kid.  This is the first on my own. So now as I should be thinking about retiring I am thinking chickens and garden.  We well be processing them ourselves. 
Only getting about 6 chickens.  I agree on raising, my husband agrees on processing. 
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, six chickens is a good number to start with. Sounds as if you and your husband have a plan.


----------



## Annalog

This morning one of the roosters, BC aka Thing One, suddenly flew up and landed on my forearm near my elbow. He seemed pleased with his lofty location and started crowing. Fortunately his head was above mine.  He stayed perched there for a few minutes while I walked around and then he flew down. It was a pleasant surprise this morning.


----------



## ak rain

Our plan is evolving and I am getting 6 egg layers and letting my husband choose the meat birds. What changed is a friend who has chickens says she can take my egg lagers this winter if I can't house them.  
Sylvia


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Annalog said:


> Meat hybrids rarely survive past 6-8 months due to rapid growth and heart failure.


I wonder if that's the concern people have about eating such mass production and prefer home raised poultry. If I live on a farm, I would like to raise my own chicken and veges and fruits too. Thanks Anna for the great info that you always provide, even about veges and fruits on the other thread.


----------



## ak rain

The chicken coop floor is in and on Tuesday walls are going up.  Friends are giving us some roofing and a window!  I love living in a friendly community.

Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

ak rain said:


> The chicken coop floor is in and on Tuesday walls are going up. Friends are giving us some roofing and a window! I love living in a friendly community.
> 
> Sylvia


Sylvia, wonderful and exciting!


----------



## ak rain

Analog have you tried the deep litter method?  I think I'm going to try that.
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, I use the deep litter method and love it! The hens love it also. My coop is a converted 8'x12' shed where the chicken area is 8'x8' and the remaining 4'x8' area is for storage. To make it easier for deep litter on one side and no litter on  the other side, the door between the two is split like a Dutch door except that the lower door is about a foot high. The lower door stays shut except when I am replacing all the litter. The rest of the time it stays shut and I step over it and up into the coop. If I were to do it over again I would probably make the lower door just a couple inches taller.

I live where it is dry most of the year so I am not sure how it acts differently here from where it is more humid. I use a small rake intended for use under shrubs to stir the litter where the hens haven't done it for me; they skip the areas directly under the roosts and between "chicken furniture" (water and food stands, blocks added as steps up to chicken doors, etc.).

I clean out all the litter two or three times a year, once after the summer rainy season, once in the spring, and sometimes in the fall. The litter goes from the coop to a long raised bed that I am using as a compost bed. The chickens love to dig in the compost bed looking for bugs.  I start the litter a couple inches deep and add more as needed until it is 4 inches deep. After that most of the new litter comes from me cleaning the nesting boxes (small or mixed wood shavings) and putting the old nest box material on top of the litter. The litter doesn't get much deeper than 5-6 inches as it breaks down over time.

Anna


----------



## ak rain

Thak you analog I have been reading on it.  Moisture is an issue I do worry about .  I do live in a rain forest after all.  My shed kit into coop is 8 x 7 .

Fun stuff
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

R.I.P. Sage.

Sage was always the most stately and somber hen. Last night she developed breathing problems, apparently from hitting her chest on a block from a short fall. As I was at work at the time, DH set up an isolation area for her after one of the other hens seemed to be attacking her. I checked on her after I returned home and she seemed to be resting comfortably. I could not tell if she had drunk any of the water or eaten any of the mash that DH had put out for her. This morning she was worse and appeared dehydrated. I tried to give her some water using a dropper but it did not help. I tried holding her with her head down and massaging her crop in case there was a blockage. I held her various ways but nothing helped. It was too late. I put her out of her misery and did a necropsy. I found an injury that looked to be a few days old. Also, she was much fatter than I expected. DH and I buried her near the other animals that have died.

No more scratch for the chickens except on rare occasions. 

Sage will be missed.


----------



## MamaProfCrash

Poor Sage.


----------



## geoffthomas

Sorry about Sage.
Happy about your birthday, Annalog.
Enjoy the day.


----------



## B-Kay 1325

Sorry about Sage, hope you are doing ok.


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, MamaProfCrash, Geoff, and B-Kay.

I worked yesterday until 10 PM and did not have the ability to reply earlier as KB seemed to be having problems before I left for work. 

DH and I are doing OK. So is the rest of the flock according to DH. I am currently at my mom's house, posting from my K2, as she wanted to see me on my birthday.


----------



## Annalog

DH told me a story about Mr. Milquetoast the other day. 

DH has been digging a long trench for water and electrical lines from the house to the shed by the future location for a greenhouse. The trench is a couple feet deep (whatever the local code is for buried electrical lines). It was a little after 1:00 pm and Mr. Milquetoast walked across the yard and up to the trench, looked at DH, chattered, looked at the hen house, hopped over the trench, walked to the gate to the front yard, looked around, walked back to the trench, looked at DH, chattered, looked at the hen house, hopped over the trench, and slowly walked back to the hen house, periodically looking back at DH. DH said that it was perfectly clear that Mr. Milquetoast said, "OK, I see that you are busy but it is time to let out the hens. I don't see Mom around. Come on, it won't take long."


----------



## ak rain

Here are the birds I ordered.  8 layers listed below and 6 more meat birds   14 birds total the meat birds come may 2 and layers June 1st
AMAF Easter Egger Female 2 
BARF Barred Rock Female 2 
BUOF Buff Orpington Female 2 
SLWF Silver Laced Wyandotte Female 2

Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, that is going to be a beautiful flock of laying hens!


----------



## Annalog

Recently I took a dozen eggs to a nearby farm to be incubated and hopefully will have chicks May 7th.


----------



## ak rain

Good luck Annalog,  I have a three year hope of using a broody hen to hatch some eggs. I still wait for my 8 layers and 15 meat birds.  I have to get that fence built.  Annalog are your eggs under a bird or in a incubator?  
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, the eggs are in an incubator. I had one hen, Thyme, become broody and hatch three eggs back when the hens were 7 months old. I kept waiting for her or another hen to go broody but it has not happened again. I figured I could not wait much longer if I wanted chicks with Mr. Milquetoast as the father. I was going to build my own incubator but then found someone who will hatch the eggs for me.


----------



## Annalog

Although there were no chickens on display at the Pima County Fair today when I was there, I did get to watch the arrival and check in process for three bantams that looked to be Serema chickens (smallest breed) and three other chickens that might have been Plymouth Rocks (two barred and one white). The chickens were inspected, probably for health and parasites. The chickens seemed very calm.


----------



## ak rain

County fair would be fun. 
Annalog have you tried using fermented feed
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

ak rain said:


> County fair would be fun.
> Annalog have you tried using fermented feed
> Sylvia


No. Do not know about it. What is it and what are the benefits?


----------



## ak rain

I found this link. I have been researching this I am keeping my meat birds (rangers) and layers together. 
Check this out

http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.ca/p/fermented-feed.html

Similar idea as sourdough started I think. Some sites talk real fancy adding meat and I don't think I will go there but same feed (chick food and later grower) and water with ACV. Then stir

Easier to digest, more nutrients digested, increased immunity is what I am seeing

Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, Sylvia! I have been feeding my chickens wet feed (mash) since they were little as they liked it better. I will need to try sprouting and fermenting also.


----------



## Annalog

Annalog said:


> Recently I took a dozen eggs to a nearby farm to be incubated and hopefully will have chicks May 7th.


Glad I posted here! I seem to have lost the paper on which I wrote the "due date" and was expecting a phone call yesterday.

I have a box ready to use for the chicks. All it needs is for me to turn on the heat lamp, adjust the lamp height for the right temperature, and add food, water, and chicks.


----------



## Sean Sweeney

The SO and I are considering raising chickens next year. We're thinking about it.


----------



## Annalog

Sean Sweeney said:


> The SO and I are considering raising chickens next year. We're thinking about it.


Thinking and preparation make it so much easier.


----------



## Sean Sweeney

Annalog said:


> Thinking and preparation make it so much easier.


*nods* It's a year away.


----------



## Annalog

This morning I received a phone call from the person incubating a dozen eggs from my hens. The first of the eggs had started pipping Monday evening. Seven chicks had hatched by Wednesday morning and another had started pipping. I brought home 8 chicks as one other chick had gotten mixed in with my chicks. My chicks have a Barred Rock father (Mr. Milquetoast) and the hens are either New Hampshire or Easter Egger while the other chick is 100% Barred Rock. All of the chicks, however, looked look like Barred Rock chicks. The person did not want to accidentally keep a hybrid chick since he wanted to keep his flock entirely Barred Rock. The other chick that was starting to hatch was not finished hatching. I will find out later if that chick finished hatching successfully and when to bring it home.
























About an hour after arriving home, they are settled in with water, dry food in feeder, and moistened food (mash) on a concrete block.


----------



## Annalog

The chick with the spot behind each eye and the lighter color grey reminds me of Rosemary as a chick.
















The chicks did not seem to like the flash from the camera at first.































Sleeping chicks will flop down anywhere. I hope the large white or yellow spots on the heads does not mean that many chicks will become roosters. It would mean that if these were 100% Barred Rock chicks. However, as the father is a Barred Rock, all of the chicks have one Barred Rock gene. If the hens had been Barred Rock with the rooster New Hampshire, then only the male chicks would have a Barred Rock gene and spots on their heads and all the female chicks would have been solid black with no white spots (Black Sex Link). (Edited to clarify.)
















One more undignified sleeping chick pose. Why are the chicks lined up? Are they already planning an escape?


----------



## ak rain

Way fun Annalog.  
I have to wait 17 more days 
Sylvia


----------



## prairiesky

What fun!  I feel as if I had just brought some chicks home.  Keep those photos coming.


----------



## Annalog

ak rain said:


> Way fun Annalog.
> I have to wait 17 more days
> Sylvia











Chicken Watch for Sylvia!

Are you ready for the chicks? The following is from an article on raising chicks in a Purina newsletter I received today:


> Once you've ordered your chicks, you need to prepare for their arrival. You will need the following equipment and supplies:
> 
> Safe, clean, draft-free room or building
> Heat lamps and/or brooder stove
> Litter
> Brooder guard
> Feeders
> Waterers
> Sanitizing solution
> Cleaning brushes
> Rake
> Pitchfork or shovel (for large areas)
> Egg flats or shallow pans
> Purina® Start & Grow® Poultry Feed


My brooder guard is a very large cardboard box and I do not use Purina® Start & Grow® Poultry Feed. 

It would be great if you could post photos.


----------



## Annalog

prairiesky said:


> What fun! I feel as if I had just brought some chicks home. Keep those photos coming.


OK, more photos:






















I dug up some fairly "clean" dirt from inside one of the hen pens in order to give the chicks some experience with dirt, something to investigate, and a start on exposure to help their immune systems while they still have their initial resistance. I think one found a dried piece of grass.























The lighter chicks still seems more interested in what I or the camera is doing. One chick finds a small rock while a couple chicks hang out at the water cooler. 























The chicks are in a big cardboard box that I got at the big box store where I work. The wire covering the box will be needed in a while to keep the chicks from getting out. The pegboard on the side is because the wire is not quite wide enough. The low heat lamp is on all of the time. The higher lamp is on a timer to come on a night. The power strip and timer are over the door into the main part of the coop. The power strip is plugged into a ceiling outlet.























Parsley is sitting in one of the nests. One of the Easter Eggers is in the doorway to the west pen. Concrete blocks serve as steps and "chicken furniture."

I just received a phone call that the last chick to hatch is ready to pick up and the other four eggs are not likely to hatch. 8 out of 12 is better than what I was expecting considering that half of the eggs were older than they should have been.


----------



## ak rain

Annalog said:


> Chicken Watch for Sylvia!
> 
> Are you ready for the chicks? The following is from an article on raising chicks in a Purina newsletter I received today:My brooder guard is a very large cardboard box and I do not use Purina® Start & Grow® Poultry Feed.
> 
> It would be great if you could post photos.


I have a wooden brooder box coming that I will bleach and clean
Heat lamp and red bulb for warmth, I have paper towels for first days and fir shavings to follow. Chick feeder and waterer and glass pebbles for safety. Scrubber good idea feeds been ordered hope it get here soon. I even have a thermometer 
Yours looks great. My coop still needs work and fence not started and the bears are awake now.
Do I sound like a first time mom? I feel like one! Yes I will try to post pictures
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, I was surprised that a thermometer was not on their list. I am so glad I bought a wireless remote thermometer before my first batch of chicks three years ago. It has been wonderful to know the temperature where the chicks or chickens  are without going outside in the middle of the night. I also felt like a first time mom. 

The newest chick is doing fine with the rest of the chicks who are a day or two older. They are all acting normally for young chicks: eat, sleep, poop, scratch under chin, sleep, stretch, drink, poop, sleep, run and flap, eat, sleep, repeat.


----------



## Annalog

The youngest chick is doing well with the other chicks. Many chicks have added new behaviors including grooming their feathers and scratching for food.

I gave them a few asparagus leaves broken into tiny bits this morning after replacing all of the paper towels that are covering the wood shaving litter in the bottom of the box. 

The temperature got down to 87 F during the night but they all seemed OK this morning when it was back up to 90 F. I am trying to keep it around 95 F their first week.


----------



## kCopeseeley

Awww... Annalog, those babies are so cute.  I had to come back and post here to update everyone on my chicken experiences.  2 years ago I had just gotten 3 chickens from a chicken owning friend of ours.  You all gave me such great advice and I was hoping to get some more.

Now we have 6 hens (having introduced three week old chicks to a broody mama who adopted them last year)!  And last night we added 5 day old chicks to another broody mama who has adopted them as well!  We love our chickens.  I bring them treats (raisins and cranberries) and leftovers and I make my little "come chicken" noise and they all come running from different corners of the yard.

I do have an issue though.  I've noticed that one of my hens is now an egg eater!  I read a bunch of stuff online about what to do for an egg eater and the easiest/most effective thing I tried was to darken the nesting area.  They said, "if the chicken can't see the eggs, she won't eat them."  So, figuring that the culprit was most likely our broody hen, who literally had to be kicked off the nest to go get food and water, I followed the instructions.

For a while, it seemed to work so well!  We got our eggs and no one was eating them.  Then I noticed a sudden drop in laying a week or so ago and when my husband was in his shop, he noticed that a hen had laid an egg in there and eaten it!

So now they've figured out my trick and are outsmarting me by laying elsewhere!  I've tried switching to a high protein/high calcium feed, but that hasn't seemed to change any behavior.  I should also mention that they are free-range birds.  We let them wander around the yard at will during the day and we don't clip their wings in case they need to get away from a hawk or something.

Anyone had this happen before?  I'm at my wits end!


----------



## Annalog

Thanks, kCopeseely.

I don't know of anything by experence since I have never had a persistent egg eater although I have had hens occasionally eat membrane or brokn eggs. I always keep wooden eggs in the nests so that the hens expect most eggs to be hard and not edible.


----------



## kCopeseeley

I tried the "hard egg" trick first.  They rolled them out of the nest and then laid an egg and ate it!  

I must have super chickens! hahaha


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, how are the baby chicks? Did they arrive OK?

Our chicks are getting a bit too active for their box. DH and I started converting the old PVC nesting box structure into a chick nursery. The main reconstruction and cleaning is finished and it is drying in the sun. Final assembly and chick moving day is tomorrow.


----------



## ak rain

The first batch came today!  I have 16 chicks and 8 more just shipped.  
I will try post some pictures later.
Sylvia


----------



## ak rain

I have pictures on my phone and tablet (both Apple) I can't figure out to get them on here.

I have had a struggle in the past 24 hours. My chicks shipped the day befor a holiday and just the distance being shipped to alaska I had 16 chicks and I lost 4 I think that we made it over the ruff part and 12 chicks look great. 

I now have 11 rangers and one unknown named unique
8 more are coming any day now.
Any hints on photos?
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Hi Sylvia,
Check out the How to insert a picture into your post thread. Essentially you first put the photo on a site that stores and displays photos (Facebook, flickr, etc.) and then link to the photo on that site from your post.

Shipping can be stressful for chicks and a longer distance and a holiday as well must have been tough! Be sure to notify the company about the losses. They may give you a credit or send new chicks.

Keep checking the chicks for "pasty butt" for at least a week. My first set of chicks was shipped and they had incidents of pasty butt for a while. Since my current batch of chicks only had to travel two miles only the chick that hatched a couple days late had a problem with pasty butt.

I agree that you are probably past the rough part. Glad you have 12 sturdy chicks!


----------



## ak rain

I think I have one with mild pasty but that I am watching I am doing three checks a day. I use these times for TLC too.  Still waiting for last shipment they pased through Seattle this mornin
So I expect them tomorrow I hope weather clears its raining now. Must have visibility to fly and all mail flys in.


----------



## Annalog

I moved the chicks to their larger pen yesterday. However, since we had not finished the front, I covered the opening with cardboard. This made it nearly as dark as their cardboard box brooder had been. Today I worked on the front and finished the lower section with screen. Then half of the chicks, mostly the bigger ones, seem to have stuffed crops. I think the silly birds have started eating the wood shavings.   I have gone back to covering the shavings with paper towels. At 3 ½ weeks old they should know the difference between food and bedding. Maybe the extra light confused them. Hopefully none of them will get impacted crops.


----------



## ak rain

Ooh good luck Annalog 
Tell me what happens.  I have my layers now and boy they are way cute. I am trying to come up with pictures. 
I have o straw now but want to change to shavings. I don't want them to eat the shavings.

So I started with 24 birds lost 4 in the first 24 hours now I have one more having difficulty but 19 strongish pretty good and I hope for that one named bug.
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sending healthy thoughts for Bug and the others!

It looks as if my chicks are fine and I probably worried without cause. I suspect that I changed too many things at once and confused the chicks. I put small fluffy shavings in the new space when the cardboard brooder had large and stiff shavings. I had changed the type of feed dishes as well. 

They shredded the paper towels by this morning. I have removed most of the soft  shavings and shredded paper towels and replaced with the larger shavings. I put one of the old feeders back with the chicks but they are eating from both old and new.

I only see a couple large crops now and that may be due to the chicks eating like pigs after I gave them some mash.

I can tell from some droppings that at least one chick has flown up and perched on the bars a couple feet above the floor.


----------



## Annalog

Hi Sylvia,
How are the chicks doing? Did Bug pull through?
Anna


----------



## ER Pierce

from one chicken momma to another - Hello! We have 7 7 week old chickens and 6 adults. My rooster is named Jim - he's been in our family for five years. He's an Americana and he's gorgeous! We have an orpington rooster as well. Two Polish Frizzle hens, an amerciana hen, two barred rocks, one mixed barred rock and new hampshire reds. Oh, and one silkie.


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## ak rain

Bug died that was the most upsetting so total of 5 deaths out of 24 chicks.

On a up note 19 strong baby chicks left and life is busy! Thursday morning my meat bird brooder light burned out. My DH on watch.. Considered this an emergency, yes, and put all birds in one brooder. This was planed for in 3 or 4 days.  Panic on my part layers are a few days younger and smaller in development from meat birds.  Meat birds are red rangers and layers are all dual purpose larger breeds but slower getting to that weight.  Everyone has weathered the move ok I worry like a new mom but can sleep happen.  There is some need for the chick layer or meat to run the length of the brooder into sleeping group which causes an uproar. There is also a few that jump into a group my DH describes it as a "cannonball" 
I am relaxing a little they are settling a little too.  I have some pictures and am trying to post using the links suggested. 
Sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Sylvia, I worried like a new mom with my first brood and like a mom again with this brood. I hope your chicks are doing well.

Time flies better than chicks.  The chicks have gone from trying to fly to deliberate wing assisted jumps. When we open their door to feed them, some of the chicks jump up to perch on the bottom of the opening. From there the most adventurous jumps to the top of the door and then to the top of their pen.

Yesterday, when the oldest chicks were seven weeks old, I heard a sound that might have been an attempt at crowing. Some of the chicks are developing larger combs and wattles. A couple are definitely going to be hens. I am still hoping for at least 4 hens but I am certain about there being at least 4 roosters.


----------



## Annalog

Time flies too fast! The chicks are now over three months old. Definitely 5 cockerels (young roosters) and 4 pullets (young hens). The cockerels have been crowing for a while and acting like teenagers.

Seven of the nine chicks have single combs which is normal for both Barred Plymouth Rock and New Hampshire chickens. One of the cockerels has what looks like a rose comb (or maybe a large pea comb) and the remaining cockerel has a comb that looks like a single comb with the base of the back part of the comb shaped like a donut or bagel at the bottom. I think these last two cockerels were the ones that hatched from green/blue eggs laid by the Easter Egger hens. (Those hens have pea combs.)









Image from External Anatomy of Poultry Kept on Small or Backyard Flocks: Chicken

The cockerel with the rose comb has been maturing more slowly than the other cockerels. His comb turned red a couple weeks after the other cockerels had red combs. (The pullets still have pink combs.) He is at the bottom of the pecking order for the cockerels. The rooster with the combination single and rose comb is at the top of the pecking order.

Yesterday DH saw that the cockerel at the top of the pecking order was chasing and attacking the cockerel at the bottom of the pecking order anytime the cockerel with a rose comb went into the pen. The cockerel at the bottom of the pecking order spent most of his time cowering in the coop with many of the feathers on his head pulled out and a small cut on the side of his face.

DH came to get me and we put Blu-Kote on the bare patch and the cut on the cockerel's head and then tried to figure out how we were going to resolve the problem. DH and I have been working on getting new pens ready for BC and LC (Thing One and Thing 2) but those are not yet finished.

We tried putting the pullets in with the hens so that the cockerels would not have pullets to fight over. The hens pecked at the pullets and the cockerels did not stop fighting. The pullets tried to go through the fencing between the two pens. That was not going to work.

After trying some other possibilities, we eventually put the four cockerels (head cockerel and his three accomplices) in Mr. Milquetoast's pen. The remaining cockerel and the four pullets are staying in the chick pen and the chick section of the coop. The remaining cockerel did not go out into the chick pen until this morning. I think he was afraid he would be attacked again.

Mr. Milquetoast gets to stay with the hens in the coop at night but gets to patrol outside the pens during the day as usual. We set up a water bowl and food dishes in one of his favorite shady spots as he doesn't have access to his pen while the rowdy cockerels are in it.

The rowdy cockerels were not happy yesterday and during the early evening but seemed calm and were not fighting with each other. They were still calm this morning.

Everyone seemed OK this morning when I was setting out the morning mash, cleaning the water dishes, etc.


----------



## spotsmom

I thought I'd take advantage of being the 1,000th reply to your thread by telling you that I spent quite a lot of time at our county fair looking at the various types of chickens and roosters.  of course, none were as wonderful as yours.


----------



## Annalog

spotsmom said:


> I thought I'd take advantage of being the 1,000th reply to your thread by telling you that I spent quite a lot of time at our county fair looking at the various types of chickens and roosters. of course, none were as wonderful as yours.


Wow, 1000 replies!

I bet many of the hens and roosters were more beautiful and as friendly. However I can't see how any could be smarter or more helpful than Mr. Milquetoast.


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## spotsmom

Mr. Milquetoast is a Stud Rooster!


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## Annalog

spotsmom said:


> Mr. Milquetoast is a Stud Rooster!


I agree!


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## Annalog

When I was feeding the chickens this morning, BC (Thing One) was standing on top of his shelter instead of waiting by the door to be let out. His short perch (short saw horse) was knocked over and there were holes in the litter. I set the perch back in place and then spotted the rattlesnake coiled between the cement blocks. I backed away and told DH. We tried to get BC out without getting too close to the snake but BC just kept backing up. I got some scratch and shaking a bowl of that finally changed the single track in the rooster's brain from "snake!" to "food!" BC came out of his pen and we put him in one of the unfinished pens. We put LC (Thing Two) in the other unfinished pen. We then phoned what we thought was the appropriate agency. In less than an hour someone came out with one of those long handled tools to take care of the snake.

Everyone is now back in their normal place.


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## MamaProfCrash

Yikes.


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## Annalog

MamaProfCrash said:


> Yikes.


I agree.

I am glad that this happened on my day off, or at least when I had the morning off, as I was feeding the chickens. DH is not quite as observant or as light on his feet. He would have been more likely to have been bitten.

I checked on the Arizona Rattlesnakes page of the Arizona Game and Fish Department. The snake was either a Mohave Rattlesnake or a Western Diamond-back Rattlesnake as it had diamonds on its back and black and white rings on its tail. I think it was a diamondback. It was about 3 feet long so it was not full grown but it was not a juvenile either.


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## Annalog

Doing the chicken chores at 5 am while wearing a headlamp results in lots of crowing from the roosters. I suspect all the neighbors know when I need to leave early for work when DH is not home.


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## spotsmom

I found out who my neighbors were when we got 2 mini donkeys...

I am so glad there are no rattlers where I live.


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## Annalog

A few days ago Parsley was acting lethargic and some of the other chickens were pecking her. We separated her from the others by moving her to the foyer of the chicken coop (the part that is normally people only). It seems that she has an impacted crop. We are following the suggestions at http://www.greenmuze.com/blogs/green-muzings/2208-chicken-impacted-crop-or-sour-crop.html. She seemed to be getting better until this afternoon after we let her free range a bit on her own. I hope it was just that she got a little tired.


----------



## Annalog

Parsley has recovered from her impacted crop. 

However, Ginger is not doing well. DH separated her from the others when he noticed. He told me when I got home and I checked on her. I did not think she looked good but he said she was better than before. She is about the same this morning. Not sure how she will be when I get home. 

On a lighter note, two of the pullets are laying.


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## ak rain

hi annalog,
my birds should be laying any day.I feed them fermented feed. this is a wet feed that is said to be easier to digest so more nutrients are absorbed. they seem to like it. i do schedule the feed, twice a day. this makes it harder to leave for the weekend but i am trying it.  i cant wait for that first egg, i keep looking. hope your impacted crop one continues to improve. 
sylvia


----------



## Annalog

Hi Sylvia,
First eggs are exciting and fun.  Three of my four pullets are now laying. We are trying to get the young ones accepted into the older flock. Yesterday DH let the pullets out to free range and herded them over to near the other pen before he let the older hens out. The older hens mostly ignored the younger ones while Mr. Milquetoast kept going back and fourth between the two groups.

Parsley is doing well; the only remaining sign is that she still seems a bit thinner than she was before. However, it turns out that Ginger was not sick. She seems to have a dislocated or broken hock joint (joint between feathered and scaly parts of the leg. I was not able to relocate the tendons in the joint and neither of the vets in Benson treat chickens. Ginger seems comfortable in the place we set up for isolated chickens; she is eating and drinking. We are at the "wait and see" stage.


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## ak rain

I dislike wait and see stages I hope it resolves soon. I just added a light to my coop. Still waiting


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## Annalog

Sylvia, waiting is tough. How many hours of light are they getting? Also, mine are a month older and have only been laying for a couple weeks.


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## ak rain

I've been told they need 14 hours so I have light now and am looking for a timer.
Low light does affect egg production. There is a debate do you provide  light? Or do you allow down time?  Ak is known for short days so I add light. My mom lives in Mohave desert she does not add.  
Sylvia


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## Annalog

I bought my timers at Ace Hardware; I have the round ones with the three prong outlets and the half hour tabs for turning the power on or off. I provide 12-13 hours of light with a 1/2 hour night light afterwards to ensure that the chickens have enough time to roost after the main light goes off. The main reason I provide light is so that I can feed the chickens before and after work in the winter. My hens seem to take turns taking breaks.


----------



## Annalog

A few days ago Ginger, the hen with the dislocated hock joint, became more alert and started eating more. Then we noticed that she was standing for short periods. Today she would take one or two limping steps before sitting again. We are hopeful.


----------



## Annalog

Today Ginger asked to go into the chicken part of the coop by standing by the door. I lifted her over the lower part of the door and put her into the coop. She then limped over to the chicken door but she could not hop up to go through the door. I then picked her up and took her outside so that she could visit with the rest of the flock on the other side of the chain link fencing. She seemed happy and settled down. One of the hens pecked at her once through the fence but the rest seemed to accept her. We will be giving her as much supervised outside time as possible. She continues to improve and is now able to stand on her good leg and use the foot on the injured leg to scratch near her face. She is also walking farther between rests.


----------



## NapCat (retired)

Anna
As I was ordering my favorite calendar for 2014 (WOODEN BOATS, not CATS as one would expect). I came across this:

Enjoy !


----------



## spotsmom

Sending positive thoughts for Ginger Chicken!


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## Annalog

NapCat said:


> Anna
> As I was ordering my favorite calendar for 2014 (WOODEN BOATS, not CATS as one would expect). I came across this:
> 
> Enjoy !
> ...




WOODEN BOATS makes sense as a great place to put a hammock for napping at the Lighthouse Ranch.


----------



## Annalog

spotsmom said:


> Sending positive thoughts for Ginger Chicken!


Ginger sends her thanks! She is doing much better and is now able to navigate up and down 8 inch steps. However we cannot leave her alone with the flock unsupervised as a couple of the hens peck her and she is not up to holding her own. She does get free range time, dust bathing time, and supervised time with the flock. She is active, alert, has a good appetite, and seems happy.

I have spent much of the past week at my mom's house and have had limited access to the internet. While I have been away, DH has apparently made a few changes. I will see what he has been up to when I get back home tomorrow.


----------



## Annalog

I have read in many places that once someone starts raising chickens, their flock size will increase as much as possible. This is certainly true for us.  We currently have 19 chickens (7 hens, 3 roosters, 4 pullets, and 5 cockerels) housed in 4 pens with small structures inside and a divided coop with two pens attached. I plan to purchase more chicks (pullets) in the spring so that we will have multiple breeding flocks and hopefully hens that will be broody so that we won't need to incubate the eggs.

Tomorrow DH and I will be remodeling the coop again to make it easier to care for the two flocks currently sharing it.


----------



## Annalog

ak rain said:


> I've been told they need 14 hours so I have light now and am looking for a timer.
> Low light does affect egg production. There is a debate do you provide light? Or do you allow down time? Ak is known for short days so I add light. My mom lives in Mohave desert she does not add.
> Sylvia


Sylvia, have your hens started laying yet?


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## Annalog

Yesterday's minor remodel turned into a major remodel with the discovery of two mouse colonies in the walls. Fortunately they had done no structural damage. We added metal flashing to the base/floor of the east and north walls (behind the masonite and under the new vinyl flooring). It was 9 pm before we were at a point where we could bring in the older flock. The hens were sleeping clustered on the outside steps while Mr. Milquetoast was perched as a sleeping sentry. The younger flock was on their outside coop.

Earlier at sunset, while DH was in Tucson buying the flashing and I was cutting hardware cloth for the new construction, Mr. Milquetoast stood in the open doorway to the gutted coop and crowed repeatedly while staring at me as if to say, "What have you done? Where are my girls going to sleep?" 

The current state of the coop is that the perimeter walls, the center flock dividing wall, and the flooring are complete with clean litter on the floor. Remaining to do: wall and doors to separate the chicken area from the storage area.

Probably the best part of the delay is that it appears that Ginger has been accepted by most of the flock. Only Parsley and Nutmeg seem to be picking on her and they let her avoid them. After we finish the front dividing wall, we will leave the door on that side open so that Ginger has a choice where to sleep and so she has a place to avoid the bullies.

Today it is raining and I am working so we probably won't finish until tomorrow.


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## B-Kay 1325

That sounds like a major undertaking, glad that Ginger is doing better.


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## ak rain

Annalog said:


> Sylvia, have your hens started laying yet?


hey I've been digging out snow paths for my chickens. Yes everyone laying this week the eighth egg came. From my Easter eggers its one rich green and one pink. the pink would pass for light brown all other eggs are brown. i am having so much fun with them. this summer we once again get chicks but only meat birds. ( i did both meat and layers this last summer) we ate our turkey today and its something to say we raised our own bird. i have been able to give 4 dozen eggs away and that feels good too. i dont know if i want to sell eggs (they go for $4-$5 per dozen here) we'll see what happens. I am still feeding fermented chicken feed. annalog i hope your birds are doing well this winter season. enjoy watching the days get longer. sylvia


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## Annalog

Sylvia, glad to hear that you are having fun with your birds. Snow paths would certainly be rare here! All my chickens are doing well.

Did you raise the turkey with the chickens or separately?


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## ak rain

Turkeys were actually raised with friends. We went in together as group. They free ranged together and had seperated coops and runs if locked up. We well have turkeys this next year and well be in same situation. 
Sylvia


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## Annalog

ak rain said:


> Turkeys were actually raised with friends. We went in together as group. They free ranged together and had seperated coops and runs if locked up. We well have turkeys this next year and well be in same situation.
> Sylvia


Great setup.


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## Annalog

Mr. Milquetoast is acting lethargic and is dehydrated. We have been trying to get him to drink fluids but have not been very successful.


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## LBrent

Oh no.

I hope he gets better soon.


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## prairiesky

I am so sorry to hear that.  He is the king of roosters.  Please keep us posted.


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## Annalog

Thanks!

I have been trying to get him to drink with little success. He was not even tempted by broth. This morning I made oatmeal and added water until it was cool enough and fairly thin. He would not let me feed it to him but when I set it down, he drank and ate some while the hens ate it also. Mr. Milquetoast gave a good crow after several drinks and bites. I have a second batch of oatmeal ready for DH to fix tonight while I am at work.


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## Annalog

R.I.P. Mr. Milquetoast


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## prairiesky

Oh no!  This makes me so sad.  I am so sorry for you.  I know he was special to you.


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## B-Kay 1325

Anna, I am so sorry to hear of your loss.  I know that Mr. Milquetoast was one of your favorites (if not the favorite), take care of yourself and hang in there.


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## Annalog

Thank you, Prairiesky and B-Kay. Mr. Milquetoast was my favorite and special. I am glad that we have eight of his offspring to carry his genes into the future.


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## LBrent

OMG, I'm sorry.

RIP.

He will be missed.


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## Annalog

Thank you, LBrent.

Yesterday Mr. Milquetoast was laid to rest under the mesquite where Buttons, our loved cat, Lennon, my loved and musical rooster, Saffron, my mellow hen, and Rosemary, our smart and adventurous hen, have been buried. Eventually we will put a bench there for contemplation and meditation.


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## LBrent

Well, if it makes you feel better, just know that he lived out his roostery destiny.

Sounds like he had a great life.


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## MamaProfCrash

Annalog said:


> R.I.P. Mr. Milquetoast


(hugs)


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## prairiesky

Animals add so much to our lives.  Do you know what happened to him?


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## Annalog

I am not sure what caused Mr. Milquetoast to stop eating and drinking. It was something internal. It could have been an infection, a tumor, or something similar. I do not think it was an impacted crop as there was no sour smell and I could not feel anything there. I did not do a necropsy to try to determine what happened. Other than being dehydrated, lethargic, and not eating or drinking, he showed no other symptoms.


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## Carol Hanrahan

There is an interesting article on the intelligence of chickens in the February issue of Scientific American.  
Sorry about Mr. Milquetoast.


----------



## Annalog

Carol Hanrahan said:


> There is an interesting article on the intelligence of chickens in the February issue of Scientific American.
> Sorry about Mr. Milquetoast.


Thank you, Carol.

I will find and read the article. I just read the first couple paragraphs available free online from Scientific American and the comments led to upc-online.org and then to a link to an article by one of the authors, http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/bts/vol15/iss1/6/. Thanks for the information.


----------



## Annalog

R.I.P. Parsley and Nutmeg.

Parsley (a New Hampshire Red) and Nutmeg (an Easter Egger) both died today. Parsley had been lethargic for a while and I had thought that she might be egg bound as some of the older hens recently started laying again. However, when Nutmeg also started acting lethargic, I noticed that she also had diarrhea. There were no signs of respiratory symptoms, swelling, or anything other than digestive/intestinal symptoms and lethargy. We separated them from the rest of the chickens. I am not sure of the cause but I have started all of the chickens on a wormer that kills three types of worms. They are also getting yogurt and apple cider vinegar for intestinal support. All of the other chickens currently seem well. Hoping for a good outcome.


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## MamaProfCrash

Sorry to hear about Parsley and Nutmeg. (Hugs)


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## Annalog

Thanks, MamaProfCrash.


----------



## NapCat (retired)




----------



## Annalog

Thanks, NapCat.


----------



## Annalog

Ginger, the hen who could not use one leg less than six months ago, is now getting into the nests and looking as if she will start laying soon. I am not sure how much she is jumping or flying but we have found her in each of the three nests over the past week.  We are glad that she is doing so well.

I have been digging in the garden beds the past few weeks. The chickens have been helping by eating bugs, grubs, wireworms, and weed sprouts as they are uncovered. They seem convinced that it is our job to insure that the shovels or garden forks used will not hurt them. A few of the hens seem to like riding a shovel full of dirt up to the wheelbarrow.  Sunday, three hens were each trying to eat the same centipede; it was a serious game of "keep away."


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## Annalog

I have ordered some additional chicks (split a 25 chick order with another person). The chicks are expected to ship around 21 May. I will be getting some New Hampshire pullets, some Barred Rock pullets, and some bantam chicks (white Silkie). I hope that some of the bantam chicks will turn out to be hens as they are supposed to be great mothers and frequently go broody. My goal is to develop a strain of mellow chicks that will be the descendants of Mr. Milquetoast and Lennon, my first two mellow roosters. (Thing 1 and Thing 2 (also known as BC and LC) are descendants of Lennon and the other roosters are the descendants of Mr. Milquetoast.


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## Meb Bryant

My feathered friend, BIG RED.


----------



## Annalog

He is a beautiful rooster!


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## prairiesky

Well, I am happy to see that Mr. Milquetoast lives on.  And, Big Red is a handsome guy Meb Bryant!


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## Meb Bryant

Annalog said:


> He is a beautiful rooster!


Thank you. He's extremely intimidating to our visitors. lol Better than a watchdog.


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## NogDog

Just for you, Anna:

Have you hugged your chicken today?


----------



## Annalog

NogDog said:


> Just for you, Anna:
> 
> Have you hugged your chicken today?





NogDog said:


> Just for you, Anna:
> 
> Have you hugged your chicken today?


Thanks, NogDog. That is adorable. The hen obviously likes to be hugged and the rooster is comfortable with the situation.

We currently have 7 roosters and 9 hens with several pullet chicks due to arrive in May. The three roosters that share a pen are referred to as the Three Stooges. The one that appears to be completely Barred Rock is not comfortable with people. While the three were out free-ranging the other day, I had that one standing on my lap and was petting his neck so that his eyes were starting to close and he was beginning to get comfortable. Meanwhile, the one at the bottom of the pecking order was watching and apparently wanting the same treatment. That one then jumped up to land on my left forearm causing the other rooster to run away. After I got him off my arm and onto my lap, he got his desired petting. Some chickens love it while others don't.


----------



## Annalog

R.I.P. Thing 2 (a.k.a. LC). 

He died yesterday and I buried him today under the mesquite trees where the others are buried. He was three years and five months old. He seemed fine four days ago and, other than not eating and becoming weak, he did not show any signs of illness or injury.

Thing 2 was the smartest of Lennon's two offspring. We will miss him.


----------



## loonlover

Sorry to hear this, Anna.  Always tough to lose one of our family.


----------



## B-Kay 1325

Sorry Anna.


----------



## Annalog

Thank you, LL and B-Kay.


----------



## Annalog

I received email that the chicks shipped today. They should arrive Thursday or Friday. 



Annalog said:


> I have ordered some additional chicks (split a 25 chick order with another person). The chicks are expected to ship around 21 May. I will be getting some New Hampshire pullets, some Barred Rock pullets, and some bantam chicks (white Silkie). I hope that some of the bantam chicks will turn out to be hens as they are supposed to be great mothers and frequently go broody. My goal is to develop a strain of mellow chicks that will be the descendants of Mr. Milquetoast and Lennon, my first two mellow roosters. (Thing 1 and Thing 2 (also known as BC and LC) are descendants of Lennon and the other roosters are the descendants of Mr. Milquetoast.


----------



## Annalog

DH and I finished feeding the chickens a little after 7 this morning. Since we had not received a phone call from the post office, we decided that the chicks were not coming today and went out to eat breakfast. We stopped at the post office to ask when the chicks should arrive in the morning but they were not open yet. I asked DH to drive around back so that he could see where to pick up the chicks tomorrow morning. I went up the stairs while he parked the car. A box of chicks was on the counter and it had my name on it.  I peeked inside to check that they were OK and headed back to the car with them. When we returned home, DH found that the post office had phoned at 7:30. I had set up a metal tub with shavings and the remote temperature sensor and had hung up the heat lamp but had not added the paper towels or water. I added those and moved the chicks from the shipping box to the tub. I made sure each chick got a drink and checked for pasty butt. All were OK except for one chick, a New Hampshire, who looked as if her backside had been coated with raw egg. She is OK but is fed up with me trying to get her feathers cleaned. I got her cleaned up enough so that at least she should be able to poop OK. 

After all the chicks seemed to be drinking water OK, I added a couple trays with food. Those trays were soon buried under the chicks! They acted as if it had been days since they had eaten. Wait, it had been! After about 10 minutes chicks started falling asleep. DH went out to buy some bolts to build a brooder since we could not find the large cardboard box I had saved from last summer specifically to use the next time we had chicks (120 quart Coleman ice chest box). While at the store, DH phoned to say where he thought the cardboard box may have been put. What is where it was. I set it up and moved the chicks. They now have plenty of room.


----------



## spotsmom

Do hens of Mr. Milquetoast's breed look like him, or only the roosters?  Can you tell I know nothing about chickens?  When I got goats, I had to ask the person I got them from to teach me to differentiate from straw and hay...


----------



## Annalog

Of Mr. Milquetoast's offspring, the hens look more true to his breed than the roosters. The roosters have some red feathers and some lighter feathers around their necks. Mr. Milquetoast's coloring dominated over that inherited from the hens. I will need to post some pictures.


----------



## B-Kay 1325

Glad to hear the chicks arrived in good condition.  Have fun being the mother hen. lol


----------



## prairiesky

New chicks...yeah!


----------



## spotsmom

Annalog said:


> Of Mr. Milquetoast's offspring, the hens look more true to his breed than the roosters. The roosters have some red feathers and some lighter feathers around their necks. Mr. Milquetoast's coloring dominated over that inherited from the hens. I will need to post some pictures.


Please post some photos!!


----------



## Meb Bryant

Crazy Momma (the only game hen in my flock) has been sitting on six eggs for 28 days, well past the 21 day hatching time. Feeling sorry for her empty nest, I purchased 3 Red Island Red and 3 Ameraucana chicks. Crazy Momma tried to accept the pullets, clucked softly to the chicks, and even rolled the rotten eggs from her nest as a show of acceptance.

Although I had fed and watered the chicks before introducing them to their new mother, they began to attack her face and peck at her beak. Crazy Momma, the ruling hen in our yard, took offense to the brutal attack and went 'Rambo' on the troublesome young'uns. She mortally wounded Fiske, the only black Ameraucana, before I could rescue the chick. I violently tossed Crazy Momma from the cage and left the chicks alone and alive. They made it through the night and seemed quite happy this morning unaware of the nurturing they'd missed out on.

I learned two lessons from this experiment. If introducing new chicks to a hen, make sure they all resemble in order for them to blend in. And, chicks from a hatchery have no idea what a mother is!


----------



## Annalog

Meb, so sorry the purchased chicks did not work out with Crazy Momma! That is sad about Fiske. Were they just a couple days old or were they older? The chicks that arrived here Thursday morning already seem fairly independent and inquisitive. They peck at everything, including each other's beaks. The wing feathers on the standard chicks (New Hampshire and Barred Rock) have more than doubled in size and they are only 5 days old. I had forgotten how quickly they grow.


----------



## geoffthomas

So Anna, how are the new chicks doing now?
Did the one with the dirty bottom do ok?


----------



## Annalog

One of the Barred Rock chicks died when the chicks were a couple weeks old. I suspected coccidosis so I added medication to their water for a couple weeks. All the rest, including the one that had the dirty bottom, have been doing well and growing. I had them in a three level brooder that I made.  We have been building a new 10' x 10' pen with internal coop (rebuilt rooster retreat) to make room for the chicks.

Earlier this week we moved the older hens, the five remaining from the original chicks, to a new pen and coop. After cleaning their old coop (half of the original coop), we moved the 13 chicks in. The chicks seen happy to have the additional space. They are a good illustration of the phrase "when pigs fly" as food seems to be their primary motivation.


----------



## spotsmom

Anna!  I am going tomorrow to the (very) local Garden and Chicken Coop Tour!  I hope to see some Milquetoast chickens.  If there are some "creative" coops, I'll take a photo for you. I know there's one in the town north of here shaped like a race car.


----------



## Annalog

spotsmom said:


> Anna! I am going tomorrow to the (very) local Garden and Chicken Coop Tour! I hope to see some Milquetoast chickens. If there are some "creative" coops, I'll take a photo for you. I know there's one in the town north of here shaped like a race car.


Sounds like fun! I am interested in what you like best.


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## spotsmom

I have returned from the coop tour!  Although we stopped at about 10 places, there really was only one worth even mentioning.  It was so clear to see that the woman really loved her chickens, and took immaculate care of them.  She had a lot of room for them to roam around, plus had specific chicken houses for them to roost and stay in the winter when it gets -30 degrees.  

She had all different types, but my favorites had feathered feet!  There were dark gray ones and golden ones and white ones.  She has hens that lay green eggs, dark chocolate eggs, as well as the usual brown and white ones.  And she had a couple that had "hats" on their head! And about 3 very vocal roosters (that I totally enjoyed). And some young chicks that were so cute. I took a couple of photos, but I have no clue how to post them here.

Although she didn't have a world class rooster like Mr. Milquetoast, I enjoyed seeing her flock.  Didn't hurt that she also had a couple of Nigerian Dwarf goats!


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## Annalog

-30 degrees! Yikes! Did the special coops have extra insulation or heat? How did the other 9 places cope with such cold winter nights?

"Hats" on chickens are cute and so are feathered feet. 

When I was thinking about getting goats, Nigerian Dwarfs were at the top of my list.

Thanks for posting about the coop tour.


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## Annalog

Time flies, even if chickens don't.  One of the Silkie pullets appears to be broody (sitting on a nest and wantintlg to hatch chicks). If she stays on the nest for the next couple days, then I will give her some eggs from the young flock with BC (Thing One). It would be wonderful to hatch some of his offspring (grand chicks of Lennon).


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## Chuck Habakkuk

I had a neighbor once who kept chickens in a coop in his yard, but his neighbor went to every common council meeting from January of 2012 until just a few weeks ago complaining for his allergies. Now that guy was gentle as a lamb so I don't think he'd do anything, but somethin' broke into that coup and left nothing but the woodplanks behind. There was a sheriff's deputy who came out and he said it was raccoon what did it. I think it was one of them common councilmen coming by and gettin' rid of a nuisance to his weekly minutes.


----------



## Annalog

Chuck Habakkuk said:


> I had a neighbor once who kept chickens in a coop in his yard, but his neighbor went to every common council meeting from January of 2012 until just a few weeks ago complaining for his allergies. Now that guy was gentle as a lamb so I don't think he'd do anything, but somethin' broke into that coup and left nothing but the woodplanks behind. There was a sheriff's deputy who came out and he said it was raccoon what did it. I think it was one of them common councilmen coming by and gettin' rid of a nuisance to his weekly minutes.


Very sad.

Glad my neighbors like my chickens and very glad my coops and pens are designed to keep out winged and four footed predators. Any predators here have to be able to open doors.


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## Annalog

The broody Silkie is sitting on three eggs. If all goes well they should hatch by 4 January 2015.


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## NapCat (retired)

Annalog said:


> The broody Silkie is sitting on three eggs. If all goes well they should hatch by 4 January 2015.


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## Annalog

The broody is still sitting on the eggs. One of the other Silkies is also laying her eggs in the same nest so I remove the extras when I see them. 

I need to decide on names for the Silkies. I plan on staying with herb, spice, and plant names for my hens. I am thinking of Arrowroot for the broody as her comb looks a lot like an arrow. I am considering Tapioca for the smallest one, Marshmallow for the bearded one, and maybe Peppermint for the one with a red spot for a comb. Yucca, Parsnip, Cotton, and Milkweed have also been suggested. Any other suggestions for white and fluffy hens that look large cotton puffballs the size of small chickens?

The broody hen sits as still as a stone most of the time that either DH or I are in the coop. Neither of us have seen her eat or drink since she became broody. However, she must get off the nest sometimes as it is clean with no poop in it. She does grumble a bit when I lift her to look for the extra Silkie eggs. I have put a small dish of chick food in the nest and occasionally and treats, such as scrambled egg. While I don't see much chick food disappear, the treats certainly disappear. Of course, it could be another hen eating the treats.


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## Annalog

I am way behind in posting!

Arrowroot hatched two chicks on January 3rd. One is Mr. Milquetoast's first grandchick and the other is Lennon's first grandchick so the lines of my first two roosters continue. The third egg never developed at all so wasn't fertile. She is very protective of the chicks and I am still having a difficult time getting photos. Arrowroot screeches and attacks us if we get too close.

On January 18th Tapioca, the smallest Silkie, was broody so DH gave her three eggs, some from timid Timmy's flock (all offspring of Mr. Milquetoast) and some from BC's (Thing One's) flock. DH didn't remember which flock provided one and which two. The eggs are due to hatch Sunday. Sometimes the two chicks that Arrowroot hatched get in the nest with Tapioca. She tolerates but ignores them.

We named the other two Silkies Peppermint and Marshmallow. Marshmallow went mud bathing during the rains last week and was messier than a S'More! Marshmallow doesn't like the chicks and Peppermint ignores them. I hope we don't have to split them up when Tapioca's chicks hatch.

We currently have four flocks of hens. The Silkies are one flock, Timmy and his four hens are another flock. BC and his eight hens are another flock. And the remaining original hens (Ginger, Clove, Cinnamon, Thyme, and Cumin) are the fourth flock. 

We have four additional roosters. The Lone Ranger is in a pen by himself and has his free ranging time first thing in the morning. The Three Stooges (Achilles, Crooked Toe, and Pure Bred) are in two pens and free range together. Timmy's flock and the old hens free range together and then BC's flock and the old hens free range together. The Silkies are too timid to go free ranging as we cannot easily pick them up or herd them. 

Yesterday we made plans for increasing the coop by combining that shed with the large one next to it, resulting in a 12'x22' shed. That is planned to happen after we finish the greenhouses with central shed so that we can empty and move the existing large shed. The pens used for the hens and roosters will be exchanged and all will end up with more space.

I am not sure if it was Cinnamon or Clove but at least one has come out of retirement and started laying eggs again. We found a large blue-green egg on Saturday and another one yesterday. We don't think that it was Ginger as she wasn't cackling and the other two were. Both have combs that have gotten larger and redder so it could be both of them.

That's all for now.


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## prairiesky

Thanks for the update...I always look forward to hear how your chickens are doing.


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## Annalog

This afternoon Pure Bred has been renamed Ajax and Crooked Toe has been renamed Odysseus. Now the Three Stooges are named Achilles, Ajax, and Odysseus. Achilles had earned his name by biting my ankles. (Yes, I realize that is backwards.) We will still refer to the trio as the Three Stooges. However we never called any of them Larry, Moe, Curly, or Shemp.


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## prairiesky

Do you have photos of the silkies?  Will the chicks look like the hens?  The rooster?  You don't have a silkie rooster do you?


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## Annalog

I hope to post photos but am having some technical and time difficulties. One chick looks like a Barred Rock chick (mostly black with some white) and the other is a New Hampshire(yellow and orange/red). I don't have a Silkie rooster, or any rooster, in the pen with the Silkies so none of the Silkie eggs are fertile.


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## Annalog

Our Silkie Tapioca has been sitting on three eggs that were due to hatch tomorrow. This morning DH drove to our daughter's house and I did not get home from work until after 6pm. So, of course, one of the chicks hatched today and fell out of the nest. When I came home I fed all the chickens and fed the Silkies last. I checked under Tapioca, found the empty eggshell, but no chick. I did not hear any young chick cheeping but did hear the two one-month old chicks. I looked back under the nesting boxes and saw the small, still chick, a New Hampshire. I picked it up and it moved. I put it under Tapioca, added more nesting material, and added a temporary cloth barricade to keep the chick in the nest overnight. By the time I was finishing the barricade, the chick was cheeping. Tomorrow morning I will try to move Tapioca, chicks, and eggs to a floor nest before I go to work. Hopefully the other eggs will hatch tonight. DH will not be home until tomorrow afternoon.

Hoping that I got the chick back to Tapioca in time. Glad it was a warm day here. High of 80°F in the coop and just over 70°F when I got home.


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## Annalog

The little chick seems OK this morning; all Tapioca will let me see is two little yellow feet standing under her. Another chick hatched, a BR/barnyard mix. I removed that shell and decided to not move them until tomorrow when I have the day off. Instead I added a small saucer (red plastic peanut butter jar lid) of water and some chick food. DH will be home by noon today and can check on them then. So far, one of Timmy's chicks hatched and one of BC's chicks hatched. If the third egg hatches, we will then know which flock supplied two eggs.


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## prairiesky

Yeah, the little peep made it!  Good save.


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## Annalog

Removed a third eggshell from under Tapioca but she would not let me see the chicks. I will know for certain tomorrow.


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## B-Kay 1325

Hi Anna, it's good hearing about the flock again.  Glad to hear you have chicks again.


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## Annalog

This morning I moved Tapioca and the three chicks to a floor nest and learned that the third chick is a Barred Rock/barnyard mix. After Tapioca settled on the chicks, I put water nearby and fresh food in front of her. Soon she was showing the first little chick how to eat. That little New Hampshire chick seems completely recovered from its first day adventures.


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## NapCat (retired)

How great to be hearing of new lives starting in the "Anna's Henhouse"....Keep that good news coming !


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## Annalog

The good news is that none of my chickens are vampires! The bad news is that the garlic I planted in the Fall under the apple trees has been eaten down to the ground and partly dug up.  I have now covered the space around and between the two trees with lattice. I hope that the remaining bulbs resprout.

I have a second bed of oats that I planted just for them but it isn't ready yet.


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## SunshineOnMe

Awww Congrats on the three new chicks!!


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## Annalog

One of the chicks that hatched a little over two weeks ago is blind. At first I thought that it was just slow but it became clear when Tapioca started taking the chicks outside that one of the black chicks could not see how to hop up the steps. I was away from home for 5 days and DH told me about it over the phone. DH has been carrying the chick outside when Tapioca takes the other two out and then he brings it back inside when they come in for the night. The chick seems healthy and happy and is just a little smaller than the other two. It seems to be eating and drinking well.

Arrowroot has started laying eggs again. Also, another of the original hens has also started laying again, this time it is one of the New Hampshire hens.


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## prairiesky

Ah!  Sorry the little peep is blind.  I had a dog who had both eyes removed and did remarkably well though blind.  Hopefully your little one will do well.


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## Annalog

I have been reading up on blind chickens. Apparently many can do well, especially if they are hens in a small flock with an environment that doesn't change much. Also I have learned of instances where a buddy acts as a seeing eye guide chicken. We will be sure to keep the food and water in the same spots.

We are planning on rebuilding the coop and the nearby shed as a bigger coop with three internal coops instead of the two we have now. I will set one up with easier access for blind or other special needs chickens. This project is planned for after we finish the greenhouses.


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## SunshineOnMe

Annalog said:


> One of the chicks that hatched a little over two weeks ago is blind. At first I thought that it was just slow but it became clear when Tapioca started taking the chicks outside that one of the black chicks could not see how to hop up the steps. I was away from home for 5 days and DH told me about it over the phone. DH has been carrying the chick outside when Tapioca takes the other two out and then he brings it back inside when they come in for the night. The chick seems healthy and happy and is just a little smaller than the other two. It seems to be eating and drinking well.
> 
> Arrowroot has started laying eggs again. Also, another of the original hens has also started laying again, this time it is one of the New Hampshire hens.


 Aww I am sorry the chick is blind. Hopefully it adjusts quickly as he/she grows.


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## Annalog

The blind chick is still doing well with the other two chicks that are the same age. However the older two chicks that are a month older started picking on the younger chicks, especially the blind one as it doesn't run. Monday we put those two in a separate pen. They are fully feathered and nearly as big as the Silkies. DH tried to free range them with Timmy's flock but, while Timmy accepted them, the hens picked on them. We will try them with Lone Ranger today if we can get them to come our of their new pen.


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## NapCat (retired)

Annalog said:


> "...learned of instances where a buddy acts as a seeing eye guide chicken. .."


Isn't that just amazing ??!!


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## Annalog

NapCat said:


> Isn't that just amazing ??!!


I think so also. Many of the guide chickens have been roosters. I also read of multiple instances where a rooster has raised newly hatched chicks after the hen died by keeping them warm. And leading them to food and water. I am not surprised as the roosters are very attentive to the hens and show them good nesting sites, dust bathing sites, and tasty food. A rooster calling to the hens to come over for a treat sounds like a mother hen calling to her chicks.


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## Annalog

R.I.P. Peppermint. We found her on the floor this morning under the roost. She seemed OK yesterday and laid an egg. I  did not see any injuries. She was 10 months old.

The other Silkies and the chicks seem fine.


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## prairiesky

Awww, shoot.  So sorry!


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## Annalog

prairiesky said:


> Awww, shoot. So sorry!


Thanks, PrairieSky. I was reminded on a Silkie thre.ad on BackYardChickens.com that a hard peck or bump on their head can cause brain damage or death as they often have an opening in their skulls. Maybe she ran into something. We do keep them separated from the larger chickens for that reason.


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## Annalog

Arrowroot has gone broody again so I gave her 5 eggs to hatch. 3 are from BC's flock and 2 are from the old flock. I am not sure which of the old hens are laying but one egg is brown (either Thyme or Cumin) and one egg is green (either Clove or Cinnamon as I doubt that Ginger can get up into the nest). Since the old flock free ranges with both BC's flock and Timmy's flock, either rooster could be the sire for those two eggs. These eggs should hatch April 7th.

The two older chicks that we had to put in a pen by themselves because they were picking on the blind chick are doing well. I am letting them free range with the old flock and Timmy's flock. However one of the hens in Timmy's flock picks on them. They will need to stay in the separate pen until they are bigger.

The blind chick is still doing well and is just a little smaller than its sibling. It is now able to perch on low items and has gotten on top of an 8" block at least once. The young chicks are getting their teenage feathers and the two from Timmy's flock are feathering completely black with no white barring unlike their older sibling who looks like a Barred Rock.


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## Annalog

I was wrong; Ginger can get into the nests of the retirement coop. I saw her there this morning. I don't know if she is thinking about laying eggs again but we do know that both of the remaining original New Hampshire hens, Thyme and Cumin, and at least one of the original Easter Eggers, Clove, Cinnamon, and Ginger, are laying eggs again. They will be 5 years old in May.

The chickens were getting grumpy with me as I woke them up three mornings in a row; I needed to feed them before sunrise in order to get to work on time since DH was at our daughter's house helping with various projects. He is back and I am working evenings for the weekend. The Three Stooges are currently free ranging and the other flocks will have their turns later.


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## Annalog

I thought that I heard quiet cheeping coming from Arrowroot this morning after feeding the chickens so I checked under her after all the chores were done. One of the chicks, apparently a New Hampshire, had zipped off the end of its shell and was resting in the shell. This was the first time I had seen a still wet chick under one of the Silkies. I reached past the chick and removed an egg that one of the other Silkies, Tapioca, had added to the nest. Arrowroot was calmer about that than in the past. Also, the last two morning the blind chick has been in the nest with Arrowroot. I suspect that the blind chick has been hiding from Tapioca who is weaning her chicks. I am sure that the blind chick is confused by the change in behavior of its mom. However, the blind chick is doing well and seems content most of the time.


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## Annalog

Three New Hampshire chicks have hatched so far. Still left is the Easter Egger egg and another New Hampshire egg. I am not sure if the remaining NH egg is from the old flock (5 year old hens) or not as I forgot to mark the eggs. However, if at least one more chick hatches, then at least one chick will be from the old flock. &#128035;&#128513; So far it appears that BC is the sire of all the chicks hatched as none are black or barred.








Arrowroot and a chick.


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## Annalog

Blind chick and hatch mates with Tapioca when little:
















Blind chick and sibling a couple weeks ago:


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## Annalog

Last week Tapioca went broody again so on Tuesday, 19 May, DH gave her 6 eggs from BC's flock. The expected hatch date is 9 June. We set up a shelter outside in the pen for the blind chick so that she would have a place to hide from the other chickens, when necessary. She now has her own food and water in the shelter so that she can eat in peace. The youngest chicks join her sometimes and she comes outside with the others at least once a day.


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## Annalog

For some reason, Achilles and Odysseus have been fighting off and on. They would square off, have a staring contest, and then jump at each other. After a couple times, theywould act like buddies again.We would separate them when they didn't stop. After a few days of this, they seemed back to normal. We were wrong. The third time I went out the back door, there were puddles of blood on the porch. Achilles was standing in the shade between the coop and the house so we went looking for Atlas and Odysseus. Those two were in the shade on the other side of the shed. We checked them over and they were both fine. They wen  into one of the rooster pens and we went back to check over Achilles. We found that he had completely broken off one of his spurs, flush with his leg. We washed both feet and legs as they were covered with blood. I sprayed his foot and open wound with Vetricyn, covered the wound with a gauze bandage and taped it. He was no longer bleeding and did not seem to be in any pain except when I put on the bandage. He is now in a pen by himself. I have now bought more gauze and some vet wrap so that DH or I can do a better job bandaging him next time.


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## Annalog

On the 10th, three chicks hatched under Tapioca. Yesterday, Tapioca abandoned the remaining two eggs. One was not fertile and the other was not fully developed. I am not sure when the sixth egg disappeared. 

Earlier in the week both Arrowroot and Marshmallow decided to go broody together in the same nest. On the evening of the 10th, when they were both outside for a short break, I removed the six Silkie eggs and replaced them with five from BC's flock and one from the old New Hampshire hens.

I removed the bandage from Achilles leg on Tuesday and he seems to be healing well. There is a small nub where the spur is growing back.


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## Annalog

Excitement this morning. Tapioca, the smallest hen, kicked both Arrowroot and Marshmallow off their nest and then kicked the eggs out as well, apparently so she could move her three chicks in. Two eggs were broken, one cracked, and three seemed OK. All three hens were out in the pen. I put the four eggs in an upper nest, cleaned the coop, added new litter, reset the lower nests, and then put the eggs back in the lower nest. I tried to put the broody hens in through the coop door but they were panicky and came back out. I then picked them both up and carried them around to the people door while DH closed the coop chicken door. Marshmallow settled on the nest but the other wanted out. We opened the chicken door. Marshmallow stayed on the eggs. We will see if any hatch; the due date is July 1, three days from now.


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## Annalog

Three chicks hatched between the evening of June 30 and the morning of July 1. Two are yellow, New Hampshire, and one is black, part Barred Rock. The black chick has some problems. First, when DH saw it Tuesday evening, it had a piece of eggshell stuck to its head. However, the two mother hens would not let either of us near it. Yesterday morning we could see that the shell was gone. Yesterday evening, I was able to see the black chick in the chick food plate and it was not walking properly due to spraddled legs. I went inside and prepared a bandaid by cutting it in half lengthwise. I went back outside, caught the chick, and had DH hold it while I put the bandaid on as a leg support (http://www.poultryhelp.com/spraddle.html). While I had the chick, I could also see that there was a patch bare of feathers on its head where it had been stuck to the shell. I put the chick back with the mother hens but they were so busy attacking me that I could not see how the leg support was working. I hope to see that it can stand today.


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## prairiesky

I would have never thought there could be so much drama in raising chickens.  It's not just buy a coop, put some hens in it and gather eggs, is it?


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## Annalog

Prairiesky, I am certain that if I had just had hens then there would have been a lot less drama! Most of the drama has either involved roosters, raising chicks, broody hens, or chickens of different ages.

I have also been affected by "Chicken Math" which is the desire to add or multiply chickens. 

Current count:
5 hens from original set of chicks
6 roosters - first or second generation offspring of original flock
12 young hens - 4 second generation and 8 from hatchery
3 young Silkie hens - from hatchery and broody much of the time.
8 young pullets and cockerels hatched by Silkies, probably 4 of each gender but not sure about the 3 youngest
6 young chicks - 3 about a month old and the 3 new ones
====
40 chickens ranging in age from a few days to a couple months over 5 years old

Finally, most of the time is calm and happy. It is fun to see the chickens free ranging, running to see if we brought treats, and "helping" while we garden by eating bugs and getting in the way of garden tools. DH and I both love watching and listening to the chickens. The roosters crow, call the hens to treats, sound alarms, and tell everyone when it is time to settle down for the night. The hens have their own conversations and are the ones to let us know if we are too late with breakfast. The chicks are busy learning about the world, playing, eating, and sleeping. I can no longer see myself without chickens.


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## Annalog

Three chicks hatched yesterday: two BR mix and a New Hampshire. The two eggs that didn't hatch are under another broody hen.


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## NapCat (retired)

Annalog said:


> It is fun to see the chickens free ranging, running to see if we brought treats, and "helping" while we garden by eating bugs and getting in the way of garden tools. DH and I both love watching and listening to the chickens. The roosters crow, call the hens to treats, sound alarms, and tell everyone when it is time to settle down for the night. The hens have their own conversations and are the ones to let us know if we are too late with breakfast. The chicks are busy learning about the world, playing, eating, and sleeping. I can no longer see myself without chickens.



Anna;

Having followed your hectic life for several years, I love this image !!
Thanks for Sharing and Keep Happy, my friend.

'da Cat


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## Annalog

More rooster drama. Thursday morning, after I left for work and before DH went out to put Odysseus and Atlas back in their pen so that Timmy and his hens could go out for their free-ranging time, Odysseus caught his comb on something and separated the back half of his large comb at the base from his head leaving an open wound and the comb flopped to one side. DH tried to hold it in place but couldn't find a way to bandage it. It was bleeding slowly and intermittently and the rooster didn't appear to be in pain. Atlas wasn't bothering him either. It was dark by the time I got home so I looked up what I could find on the internet but only found suggestions for cutting the loose part of the comb off. I was very concerned about that for multiple reasons, one of which was the predictions of lows of 24°F and 17°F for Monday and Tuesday. After seeing the wound and spraying it with Bluecoat, I went to check the internet again. The back of the comb was turning dark and not promising. DH mentioned Superglue so I added that to the search. The info I found were promising but only if done immediately after injury. I decided that even if it didn't work, it would at least give the wound on his head protection from the freezing temperatures for the next few days. We headed to Walmart to get the small single use gel tubes in the office supply area as the craft ones had additives to limit gluing skin and a "craft fragrance." Back at home I had DH hold Odysseus while I cleaned the wound again, opened the Superglue tube, and then used the glue to tack the comb in place in several spots. We continued to hold him and the comb in place while the glue set and the fumes dissipated. After I let go of the comb, we waited a bit longer to see what happened when Odysseus shook his head. The comb stayed in place and he seemed much happier. This morning the back of the comb is returning to its normal color. We will be treating it with Neosporin and watching to see how it does but, for now, it looks promising.


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## Annalog

Quick update. Odysseus and his comb are OK. Arrowroot was very broody a few weeks ago so we gave her four eggs from BC's flock. Last week all four hatched resulting in three New Hampshire chicks and one Barred Rock mix. All the other chickens are doing fine.


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## Annalog

Happy birthday a day early to the Spice girls Ginger, Clove, Cinnamon, Cumin, and Thyme. They all hatched either six years ago tomorrow. At least half of these 6 year old hens are still laying eggs occasionally as last week DH collected 6 eggs in one day from their pen that they share with 3 younger hens and a rooster. I would not be surprised if all of them are still laying, although Ginger probably only lays eggs rarely, if at all. I wish that I could be there to give them their birthday watermelon!


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## Betsy the Quilter

Anna, still love reading about your chickens, and share things from this thread with my hubby. He wants to know how many you have now.  He grew up Arlington, VA during WW2 when it was normal for people to have chickens in their yards in (what is now) the heart of Arlington, a busy suburb of DC.  Some people had them in their basements!  

Betsy


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## Annalog

Current count:
5 hens from original set of chicks 6 years ago - Ginger, Clove, Cinnamon, Cumin, and Thyme
7 roosters - BC (Thing One), Son of BC, Timmy, Lone Ranger, Achilles, Odysseus, and Atlas
14 younger hens - 7 second generation and 7 from hatchery - one named Anoia (Goddess of Things That Get Stuck in Drawers)
  1 younger hen - Blind Belle
3 Silkie hens - from hatchery and broody much of the time.
4 young chicks 
====
34 chickens ranging in age from a couple months to 6 years old

We have given or sold some of the younger chickens hatched by the Silkies. The Silkies are unhappy if we don't give them eggs to hatch when they are broody but if we kept all the chicks that they raise then we would be overrun by chickens. BC, Son of BC, and Timmy are with small flocks of hens and the remaining roosters are bachelors. The silkies and Blind Belle are in a coop with attached pen without a rooster. 

DH acquired an injured, unaltered tom cat from the neighbors across the street. This cat, Kiki, had been living outside and did not get along with their dog. Kiki had been hanging around our house lately and eating the food left out for a feral cat that had showed up months ago. Kiki had a respectful, but standoffish, relationship with the chickens. DH took the Kiki to the vet to have the injury treated and to be neutered. Since the cat was a bit wild and he could not bring it inside with our other two cats, DH set up the recovering cat in Mr. Milquetoast's old pen.This let DH give the meds to Kiki and kept Kiki safe. In a couple days, the roosters became comfortable with Kiki there. Now that Kiki is completely recovered, he spends the day ranging with his pen door open and at night he is safely in the pen with the door closed. DH says that Kiki has become very friendly and nearly purrs.

A few days ago Kiki killed a mouse in the garden. After playing with it for a while he stepped a bit away from the mouse. DH says that Kiki looked shocked when one of the hens darted in and stole the mouse. We will see how having an outside cat works with adult full size chickens. Since the silkies, blind Belle, and the young chicks are not allowed to leave their pen, we don't have to worry about them and the cat.


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## Annalog

Yesterday, while cleaning out the coop, DH and I decided to rearrange it again. We replaced the larger nesting boxes on both sides with smaller ones and changed them from the outer walls to the inner ones. We had hoped that this would stop the Silkie from being broody as she was sitting on infertile eggs. Nope, she spent a long time looking for the eggs that we had thrown out. She also wouldn't let the other chickens into the coop. So we gave her four of the fertile eggs collected that day. She immediately settled on the eggs and didn't get back up. We don't need more chicks but at least she is happy. The rest of the chickens on both sides of the coop kept investigating the changes and finally determined their favorite new roosting spots.


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## Annalog

Usually the hens ignore the large black ants in the yard. This morning, while free ranging during a light rain, the hens were eating the ants. Do wet ants smell better, taste better, look yummier? Fewer ants for the horned lizards today.


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## NapCat (retired)

Annalog said:


> Usually the hens ignore the large black ants in the yard. This morning, while free ranging during a light rain, the hens were eating the ants. Do wet ants smell better, taste better, look yummier? Fewer ants for the horned lizards today.


Maybe a wet ant looks like it is chocolate covered


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## Annalog

Sylvester, the cat formerly known as Kiki, is still living happily with us and still spends each night in Mr. Milquetoast's old pen. He has put on more muscle and looks great. Ants, similar to the one in the post above, are often seen carrying some of his dry cat food into their nest. Sylvester is making a dent in the rodent population.

The cockerel and pullets have been moved out of the pen chick/Silkie/special needs pen as they were picking on Blind Belle. Belle is doing great and cimes toward us when we enter the pen as she knows that we bring food and treats. 

Yesterday, DH saw BC sitting with one of his hens while she was laying an egg. We will watch to see if he does this frequently or just with his favorite hen.


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## geoffthomas

So Anna, is there anything new going on in the chicken coop?


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## Annalog

Life has taken many turns the past few years. We plan to be moving within the year. We found good homes for most of our chickens, with each rooster and his hens going to a new home together. We only have one hen left and hope to find her a good home soon, possibly with one of the homes where some of our other chickens are. I will post some of the stories later.


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## loonlover

So good to see a post from you. We comment every once in a while about Annalog's chickens and wonder how things are going for you and yours. Will look forward to your stories.


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## sjc

Annalog:  So good to see that smiling face and read about Sylvester, the animals n DH. Xoxo
HI LOONLOVER!!!! Speaking of DH.... Xo


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## Annalog

2019 is continuing to have its ups and downs. I didn't post back in May when my mother passed away after her cancer moved into her bones. She was in home hospice at my sister's house at the time and it went as well as it could have done.

My mother started running in local race events at the age of 77. Her first race was Run with the Roosters 2009. Over the years she earned medals by placing, often first, in her age category. She didn't let bad knees, cancer, chemo, or compression fractures in her back stop her. It took a broken hip to slow her down. My sisters and I pushed her in her wheelchair in the last race she was in September 2018. The Everyone Runs/Everyone Walks races put on by Steve Landau and his family were always her favorite.

This year, at the 2019 Run with the Roosters race, many of us in the family ran or walked this 5 mile race, either in Tucson or virtually from far away. Before the race, the race director, Steve Landau, spoke about celebrating life, focusing on my mother's achievements and also the birth of his first grandchild just hours before. It was a wonderful way to start the race.

My mom must have been there in spirit as I ended up walking with a woman who I learned rescued older chickens and ducks. During the race we became friends and arranged to have me take Ribbon, our lonely hen, to her place after the weather cooled a bit in Tucson. Almost three weeks ago, I took Ribbon to her house to meet Eileen and her chickens. I have been getting regular updates via text and phone calls. Ribbon has made friends with a hen and a rooster.

My husband and I miss having chickens around but it will not be possible to take chickens with us when we move.


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## crebel

Thanks for the update, Anna and my sympathies on the loss of your indomitable mother.  I miss hearing from you here at KB.


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## Annalog

Thanks! Life has truly been crazy for a while, some good, some sad, some happy, and some bad. Hopefully I will find more time with internet access to stay in touch. <3


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## Annalog

R.I.P. Ribbon

I learned yesterday that Ribbon passed away a few hours before I wrote the upate post. Probably due to her age and possibly the warmer temperatures, she developed ascites (water belly) a couple weeks after the move. She had settled in and seemed to be enjoying everything when she took a turn downhill. The vet drained the excess fluid but could not determine if the cause was due to her reproductive system shutting down, heat stress, cancer, heart problems, etc. She then had several good days but was still having some issues with fluid accumulation. 

Eileen did everything possible. She had kept Ribbon inside her house during the evenings and nights, along with Lazarus (a rescue rooster who Ribbon liked) ever since Ribbon arrived to help her acclimate to the change in climate. She took her to the vet when this problem arose. She made sure that Ribbon had good time with a friendly hen in the coolest place outside during the day. She made sure that Ribbon knew that she was as loved there as she had been here. She provided Ribbon the chicken flock activities that we no longer could.

Good bye Ribbon. We miss you.


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## loonlover

So sorry to hear about Ribbon. It sounds like you did well by her to the end. Those of us who have followed this thread from the beginning know the good life your chickens enjoyed.


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## jakecrew

Thanks for sharing


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## Annalog

You are welcome. DH and I certainly miss having chickens. I will find a way to be with chickens after we move.


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## Annalog

My niece in the north east of the US has gotten six chicks, five pullets and a cockerel. She has been posting photos, videos, and updates on Facebook. The chicks are being raised in an alcove of their house, safe from their dogs and cats. She and her housemates are looking to buy a nearby farm together soon. That, and hearing neighborhood roosters crow, is currently the closest I am to chickens. The more I work in my vegetable garden, the more I miss them.


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## Sandpiper

Even though I've been there only once years ago, when I think of roosters crowing I think of Key West.  Gotta go back . . . one of these days.


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