# Submit tax info or books removed from sale



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I just had reason to visit my bookshelf, and got a warning splattered over the screen: you must submit tax info or books will be removed from sale.

This is new.

A new form of terrorism, I surmise.


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2013)

Yeah I just went through it, not providing anything more than my name and address which they already had as default. Took 2 minutes. Said I would hear from them if there are any problems. Hope not


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

We got the same thing. Weird 'cause all the info was right. We just submitted with same info as before and the message went away..


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

How did you do that? I need to apply for a stupid [expletive] US tax ID number first


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

I didn't get that message.Where is it?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

It's at the top when you go to your bookshelf.


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

Not on mine. And my account says 'tax information complete'.


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

I got my ITIN number two years ago and filled in all the forms and sent to Amazon then. Maybe it's just for people who didn't?


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

Annoying.  i just filled it out then it said I had 30% withholdings so have messaged them to confirm that the form I sent to them was still valid.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

Patty Jansen said:


> How did you do that? I need to apply for a stupid [expletive] US tax ID number first


Patti - I filled in the form just now and you only have to have a tax ID number if you're a U.S. citizen, resident etc. I got right to the end with just my name, address and Amazon account login. I don't know if they will come back to me later on it, of course, but the message has disappeared for now.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

I submitted all mine. I'm a little bit annoyed they didn't offer this method before I bloody posted my W8-BEN to Amazon. After all that I just had to electronically sign it online. 

Oh well, no more withholding tax for me, yay!


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## Jac1106 (Jan 13, 2012)

I don't have a US TIN and I completed the "tax interview" just now.

Ugh, the 30% withholding rate is applicable not just to USA but to Canada, Japan, and India sales as well.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

J.A. Cynth said:


> I don't have a US TIN and I completed the "tax interview" just now.
> 
> Ugh, the 30% withholding rate is applicable not just to USA but to Canada, Japan, and India sales as well.


Are you in the UK? If you google for how to get a EIN as a non-US author there's a really good blog post on how to do it. You just ring up the helpline and they sort it out over the phone. I was on hold for nearly an hour, so it'd be cheaper to skype if you can.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I think there are two things going on here. The "tax interview" is so that your "electronic" signature is legal and so that they get the permission to send your statements via email.

This has nothing to do with requiring US tax ID or the 30% withholding tax. You still have to get those forms. I've got them here and will be mailing them. I don't have the time to worry about phone calls. I never knew you *could* mail them. I thought you *had* to ring up for an EIN. I'm happy to mail them. That gets them out of my hair. I have time.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

sarahdalton said:


> Are you in the UK? If you google for how to get a EIN as a non-US author there's a really good blog post on how to do it. You just ring up the helpline and they sort it out over the phone. I was on hold for nearly an hour, so it'd be cheaper to skype if you can.


I HATE making phone calls and HATE it even more when I'm put on hold. The Amazon page tells you how to do it. Newsflash: you do not HAVE to get up at stupid times and make this phone call. You can simply mail the forms!


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> I HATE making phone calls and HATE it even more when I'm put on hold. The Amazon page tells you how to do it. Newsflash: you do not HAVE to get up at stupid times and make this phone call. You can simply mail the forms!


For an ITIN, right? But then you have to mail them your passport or driver's license. You can't send the W8-BEN without a Tax Identification Number, or I guess you could, but they would still withhold your tax.

I hate making phone calls but made an exception this time as it took me an hour to get my reference number as opposed to about 6 weeks. Not to mention the expense of sending my passport to America. And I made the phone call at 5pm. It really wasn't that much of a big deal.

Anyway, each to their own!


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## Jac1106 (Jan 13, 2012)

SarahDalton,

No, I'm not in the UK, and the USA doesn't have a tax treaty with my country of residence right now. I'll apply for a US TIN next year after I move to another country.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

J.A. Cynth said:


> SarahDalton,
> 
> No, I'm not in the UK, and the USA doesn't have a tax treaty with my country of residence right now. I'll apply for a US TIN next year after I move to another country.


Ahh, that makes sense! Hope it works out for you.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

sarahdalton said:


> For an ITIN, right? But then you have to mail them your passport or driver's license. You can't send the W8-BEN without a Tax Identification Number, or I guess you could, but they would still withhold your tax.
> 
> I hate making phone calls but made an exception this time as it took me an hour to get my reference number as opposed to about 6 weeks. Not to mention the expense of sending my passport to America. And I made the phone call at 5pm. It really wasn't that much of a big deal.
> 
> Anyway, each to their own!


You don't need any of that for an EIN.

Seriously, look on the information that KDP gives for that. Yes, it used to be only on this English lady's website, but it's on the KDP info as well. They even have an example how to fill in the form.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> You don't need any of that for an EIN.
> 
> Seriously, look on the information that KDP gives for that. Yes, it used to be only on this English lady's website, but it's on the KDP info as well. They even have an example how to fill in the form.


I've already got mine so I don't need to. If it's all there then great -- good luck to everyone else getting their EINs.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Weird, no message on my Bookshelf. That's odd.


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## Jac1106 (Jan 13, 2012)

David, go to Your Account. Under your name and address you'll see Tax Information and whether yours is complete or not.


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## RockyGrede (Apr 19, 2013)

Had this today too. For a second, I thought it was a straining order against my account.

I'm based in the UK, do I still have to fill it in?


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

Could I please have some help? I'm stuck on this question because I don't know what it means. Do I answer yes or no?

"Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits?"


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Ryan Sullivan said:


> Could I please have some help? I'm stuck on this question because I don't know what it means. Do I answer yes or no?
> 
> "Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits?"


I can't remember which one that was or what I put! Is it the one about fiscal transparency?

Can you copy and paste all the info? It might jog my memory. I had my partner on hand to help and I can't remember what we discussed.


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

It looks something like this.

*Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits? 

Yes O

No  O

Income may be derived by either the entity receiving the item of income or by the interest holders in the entity or, in certain circumstances, both. An item of income paid to an entity is considered to be derived by the entity only if the entity is not fiscally transparent under the laws of the entity’s jurisdiction with respect to the item of income.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm at the same question as Ryan, this is the explanation that comes with the question: (ah, ryan already posted)


I thought I was done with this when I send my W8 form 1,5 months ago, but this question just confuses me and google is not much help...


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Ryan Sullivan said:


> It looks something like this.
> 
> *Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits?
> 
> ...


Right, so me and my partner (neither are tax experts so please take this with a pinch of salt) decided that what they are talking about is earning the income, putting said income into an account and paying yourself a wage, or your hypothetical colleagues/interest holders a wage. Since I don't do that then it's a no.

Basically if the income from your sales is your income then you click no. Does that make sense?


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks Sarah! I sort of thought that might mean it after running it through google translate (I'm Dutch so I was hoping it might make more sense in Dutch, or at least give me a clue).


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Kia Zi Shiru said:


> Thanks Sarah! I sort of thought that might mean it after running it through google translate (I'm Dutch so I was hoping it might make more sense in Dutch, or at least give me a clue).


It doesn't make much more sense in English to a native speaker either! I hate tax speak.


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

So, I would say "no", because I'm not holding the revenue in an account to distribute to various employees as their wages? (Or to distribute to myself as my own wage?)

Whereas if I was doing so as part of a business, I would say yes?


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## Jac1106 (Jan 13, 2012)

Ryan, can you post the question that came before that one?


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Ryan Sullivan said:


> So, I would say "no", because I'm not holding the revenue in an account to distribute to various employees as their wages? (Or to distribute to myself as my own wage?)
> 
> Whereas if I was doing so as part of a business, I would say yes?


Yes, that's how I would interpret it.


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

J.A.: It was, "Do you have a TIN."

Sarah: Thanks, I'm going to go ahead and say "No".


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

Okay, I've got through it.

Hopefully I don't run into any trouble having used my old address. I thought it'd be better to use that one, though, because I haven't updated my address with the IRS yet. I only moved at the start of August.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

My tax info says complete, I did the ITIN and W8-BEN thing last year. Strangely the date says received aug 2013 for some reason but 0% withholding is confirmed so I am not messing with it.

However... i would have answered yes to the question discussed here. I am not a tax specialist or any kind of expert, but it seems to me that the operative words here are "derive income"

We all derive income (receive money) from publishing our books through kdp. That's our royalties. So the question becomes for UK writers Do you receive money for which you can claim treaty benefits? The entire point is that the tax treaty between UK and US gives us the ability of paying 0% tax in the US and pay it all here in the UK. That's what article 12 means.

So I think the answer should be yes. This is serious stuff. Before answering I think you should phone IRS or at least HMRC... i would trust IRS over our HMRC though.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I've got the message as well, Patty.

I'm looking into it - but I'm pretty sure it means I need to apply for an ITIN. 

Blah. More hoops to jump through, more paperwork.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Steve Vernon said:


> I've got the message as well, Patty.
> 
> I'm looking into it - but I'm pretty sure it means I need to apply for an ITIN.
> 
> Blah. More hoops to jump through, more paperwork.


Actually, I don't think so, but now I've discovered I can do it by mail, I'll do it anyway (and email Amazon to hold my payments until it's sorted).

You should apply for an EIN. Follow instructions on the KDP site. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH less hassle.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

markecooper said:


> My tax info says complete, I did the ITIN and W8-BEN thing last year. Strangely the date says received aug 2013 for some reason but 0% withholding is confirmed so I am not messing with it.
> 
> However... i would have answered yes to the question discussed here. I am not a tax specialist or any kind of expert, but it seems to me that the operative words here are "derive income"
> 
> ...


That's what I thought at first, but it's this bit:

"An item of income paid to an entity is considered to be derived by the entity *only if the entity is not fiscally transparent under the laws of the entity's jurisdiction* with respect to the item of income."

that confused me.

I'm now thinking that I've done this the wrong way around. Argh!

Sorry, Ryan.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm doing it step-by-step.

Amazon has asked to complete the tax interview. I just did that. They said they'll get back to me when they've reviewed the info. 

Paperwork scares the bejezus out of me.


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

That's all right, Sarah. Looks like I can't go back and change it, though.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

I've had another think about this income question. So, the question is:

*Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits?

with the stipulation:

"Income may be derived by either the entity receiving the item of income or by the interest holders in the entity or, in certain circumstances, both. An item of income paid to an entity is considered to be derived by the entity only if the entity is not fiscally transparent under the laws of the entity's jurisdiction with respect to the item of income."

I AM fiscally transparent because the income of my company flows through to me. I'm not claiming to invest my money. I'm claiming all the profit as my income.

So I'm NOT an entity, and can NOT claim treaty benefits (ie. get tax back from the IRS on investing money back into the company).

So I click no.

Here's the wikipedia entry for fiscally transparent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow-through_entity

If anyone understands this better please chime in!


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm not sure about UK, Catherine. For me, it would be my TFN (Tax File Number).

BUT I left that area blank because I have no access at all to my TFN. It's buried in a filing cabinet at a different house.


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## Skate (Jan 23, 2011)

Under the Tax interview, they're asking for my bank details. Dare I believe they're actually going to start paying me (an Aussie) by EFT?  

ETA. Ah no, when I press the drop down box to select a country, Australia is not there. Burst that bubble of hope!


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

Catherine Gardiner said:


> What a Foreign Tax Identification Number if I am in the UK? Would it be my NI number?


If you're in the UK, I would think you need to be registered self-employed with HMRC to pay taxes on your royalty income, in which case your UTR (Unique Taxpayer Reference) is your tax identification number. It should be on your paperwork from HMRC.


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

OK, after some deep thinking, it seems to me that the fiscally transparent question is about the difference (in UK terms) between a sole trader and a limited company. As a sole trader, you are the business and the business is you, and any business income is also your personal income. If you're the director of a limited company, the company is a separate legal entity - any business income belongs to the company until the company pays you a wage (or dividends). I think most of us are registered sole traders, so we are fiscally transparent. Does that sound reasonable?



Catherine Gardiner said:


> okay, I have one of thos. thank you. geez, this is really stressing me out.


No problem. I'm always worried when I talk to other writers about being registered for taxes that they'll say, "What do you mean, taxes on my royalties? What taxes?" That would be awkward.


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## Ryan Sullivan (Jul 9, 2011)

Skate said:


> Under the Tax interview, they're asking for my bank details. Dare I believe they're actually going to start paying me (an Aussie) by EFT?
> 
> ETA. Ah no, when I press the drop down box to select a country, Australia is not there. Burst that bubble of hope!


You got me a bit excited! But I think that list has been there for a long time.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Alex Jace said:


> If you're in the UK, I would think you need to be registered self-employed with HMRC to pay taxes on your royalty income, in which case your UTR (Unique Taxpayer Reference) is your tax identification number. It should be on your paperwork from HMRC.


This is what I did, too.



Alex Jace said:


> OK, after some deep thinking, it seems to me that the fiscally transparent question is about the difference (in UK terms) between a sole trader and a limited company. As a sole trader, you are the business and the business is you, and any business income is also your personal income. If you're the director of a limited company, the company is a separate legal entity - any business income belongs to the company until the company pays you a wage (or dividends). I think most of us are registered sole traders, so we are fiscally transparent. Does that sound reasonable?


Phew, I think this is what I was trying to say in a round about way. So you clicked no as well, Alex?


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I am wondering how to fill out the damn form if you are a company, because my Amazon payout have been going into my company account.


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

Alex Jace said:


> OK, after some deep thinking, it seems to me that the fiscally transparent question is about the difference (in UK terms) between a sole trader and a limited company. As a sole trader, you are the business and the business is you, and any business income is also your personal income. If you're the director of a limited company, the company is a separate legal entity - any business income belongs to the company until the company pays you a wage (or dividends). I think most of us are registered sole traders, so we are fiscally transparent. Does that sound reasonable?


I'm finding this quite complicated, so here's another attempt to rephrase this fiscal transparency concept so I can get my head around it.

As a sole trader, I am a person who is also a business. I'm Alex Jace (the person) but also Alex Jace (the business). Any royalty income paid to Alex Jace (the business) flows immediately through to Alex Jace (the person) because we are one and the same. The business is a _flow-through entity_ because all income flows immediately through to the person. This makes me _fiscally transparent_.

Both Alex Jace (the person) and Alex Jace (the business) are potentially liable for taxes. In order to avoid double taxation, ie. paying tax on the same money first as a business and then as a person, the business does not attract tax liability in its own right. Money flows right through it without stopping. Tax liability falls on Alex Jace (the person) who then files a self-assessment tax return with HMRC.

So if you're a UK sole trader, you fall under the US definition of a fiscally transparent entity. I think.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Catherine Gardiner said:


> I know all about paying taxes (in the UK) it is sometimes I get easily stressed and this tax interview on KDP is stressing me out because I am scared I am doing it wrong. I mean, do I still need a EIN or not and can I submit that at an later date, on my warning it said that I have until 10th October or my book is pulled.


I think Amazon are legally obliged to collect a W8-BEN from all traders, but I'm not sure if they need the EIN or ITIN at the same time. You could try their support if you're worried about that one.

There was an option to click through to the form without any Tax Identification Number so that makes me think that you CAN submit the W8-BEN to them without a number.


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

By the way, the Amazon help page states that you can retake the interview at any time, so if you messed anything up, you should be able to double back and redo.



sarahdalton said:


> Phew, I think this is what I was trying to say in a round about way. So you clicked no as well, Alex?


My Amazon tax information is already complete (with a big green tick!) so this interview hasn't come up for me. I don't remember this exact question being asked when I went through my EIN interview, but they did check that I was a sole trader rather than a limited company, so I imagine that was the same question phrased in a more helpful way.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Alex Jace said:


> By the way, the Amazon help page states that you can retake the interview at any time, so if you messed anything up, you should be able to double back and redo.
> 
> My Amazon tax information is already complete (with a big green tick!) so this interview hasn't come up for me. I don't remember this exact question being asked when I went through my EIN interview, but they did check that I was a sole trader rather than a limited company, so I imagine that was the same question phrased in a more helpful way.


I think you're right! It's so nice of them to phrase the question in a way that barely resembles the English Language.


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## Faye Hunter (Jun 5, 2013)

For the derived income question, if you click YES the final W8EN form has a box checked stating that the applicant is "not an individual...". So I had to go back and change the answer to "no" to uncheck that box on the file form since I am an individual.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Faye Hunter said:


> For the derived income question, if you click YES the final W8EN form has a box checked stating that the applicant is "not an individual...". So I had to go back and change the answer to "no" to uncheck that box on the file form since I am an individual.


That is huge, and completely proved me wrong  I'm glad it's finally answered though. I was getting stressed out on all your behalfs.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

Amazon says they received my tax info on 8/9/13. But I know I haven't updated anything in my profile recently - definitely not earlier this month.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Zoe Cannon said:


> Amazon says they received my tax info on 8/9/13. But I know I haven't updated anything in my profile recently - definitely not earlier this month.


Mine was the same. I am guessing that the machine in the background at Amazon HQ simply looks stuff up from the previous tax year, and if it was valid just reuses it and the date becomes this year. Just a guess, but I had the big green tick with this year's date and I KNOW I did all my tax and ITIN last year.


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## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

I'd be really careful if they say you've updated your details.

Last time I did that by accident, and then the payments I'd put on hold because I'd not submitted my tax number yet, was then payed... with the tax I'll probably never get back taken off. They apologised and told me if you change any personal info, then a hold you put on your payments will automatically go back to 'pay you' status.

If you don't want to be paid yet, fire off an email telling them so again. Because it hurts when they auto pay with a big chunk off tax taken off (they don't hold it for you anymore, you have to go through the IRS to get it.)

I put this link on the other thread, it generally answers all the EIN questions:

http://catherineryanhoward.com/2012/02/24/non-us-self-publisher-tax-issues-dont-need-to-be-taxing/

Although it does sound as if Amazon has some strangely worded form going on.


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Oh joy, just got this tonight... put all the information in that I could think of... and had to dig through my huge piles of paperwork to find the IRS original... submitted the W8, but now it says "invalid tax information", but doesn't tell me *what* is invalid


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

*Update: found the issue.  I was submitting as an organisation (my sole-trading name here in Australia), but instead I needed to use my actual personal name associated with the EIN, anyhow, seems happier now.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

I got the same warning. I physically mailed a W8BEN to Amazon and got confirmation that the withholding rate would be 0%, conform the tax treaty with the Netherlands. Of course, I've arranged for an EIN before I sent in the information.

Basically, this is a new automatic W8BEN for me, and I had to answer some questions and give my EIN again. The information is still valid, but I guess they want to update the tax information.


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

I find it so odd that some people are affected and other's aren't. I keep heading to my dashboard to see if I've been affected...but as yet, haven't received anything. I suppose it's because my EIN details are already filled in and I've been paid by EFT for several months now? Who knows. I hate when Amazon start changing things. :|

Geoff


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## murmcd (Oct 11, 2010)

i posted this on KDP last year for UK authors, it takes about 5 minutes to apply for the W8BEN and has links to completed examples. Hope it helps

STEP 1

Call - 001-267-941-1099 any time after noon UK time (quietest then)

Phone number for IRS who will give you your EIN Number for the W8 form. You don't need to do anything before making the call, nor do you need to give anything other than your home address

STEP 2

Fill in the W-8BEN form (a) below as per the example (b)

a. Form W8

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/opt/general/test/W8BEN.V182333671.pdf

b. Example form - replace x's in question 6 with your EIN number that they give you on the phone call and cross the EIN box NOT the SSN or ITIN box

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/opt/general/test/W-8BEN_with_Affidavit_Example_Individual.V182374240.pdf

STEP 3

post form to

Amazon.com
c/o Vendor Maintenance
PO Box 80683
Seattle, WA 98108-0683


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I just checked mine. It says my tax info is complete and that they received it yesterday. Weird - they didn't receive it from me! Maybe they just updated their system with the info they already had from me.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

GWakeling said:


> I find it so odd that some people are affected and other's aren't. I keep heading to my dashboard to see if I've been affected...but as yet, haven't received anything. *I suppose it's because my EIN details are already filled in and I've been paid by EFT for several months now?* Who knows. I hate when Amazon start changing things. :|
> 
> Geoff


I also filled in my W8BEN about a year ago and have been paid by EFT exclusively, but I still had to jump through the hoops again.


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> I also filled in my W8BEN about a year ago and have been paid by EFT exclusively, but I still had to jump through the hoops again.


AFAIK you have to send in the W8BEN yearly as a non US citizen. .

CD

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk 4


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

CeeDee said:


> AFAIK you have to send in the W8BEN yearly as a non US citizen.


If that's the case I'll have to do this same thing next year again. If you know what to check, it's a minor hassle.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

CeeDee said:


> AFAIK you have to send in the W8BEN yearly as a non US citizen. .


I'm glad I scanned a copy of my first one, then.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> If that's the case I'll have to do this same thing next year again. If you know what to check, it's a minor hassle.


Back when I used to have a US stock trading account for stock options in my last job, they made me send one in every year or three. I don't remember the exact time, but it was a regular occurrence.


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Woke up this morning (thank goodness!), all the tax stuff is good.


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

fyi for Aussies

I rang 7.05am this morning,

was on hold for about 30 seconds

Took about 20mins to give the details and was given the EIN


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I filled out my tax info long ago so when I check my account now it says "complete". Judging by the date shown (August 2013) it looks like Amazon automatically checked/updated my info a few days ago, making sure I was current.


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## cwashburn (May 20, 2013)

My understanding of the W-8BEN form is that it is a declaration that you are not a US resident and don't owe tax to the US and therefore the 30% withholding is no longer necessary.


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Out of curiosity - if you paid 30% tax before on your cheques, and now have submitted the W8BEN, will Amazon issue you a new cheque reimbursing you at the new tax rate ( in my case, came out at 5%)


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

With the W-8BEN form, part 8, for SW do I put both email address for pen names?


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

MrPLD said:


> Out of curiosity - if you paid 30% tax before on your cheques, and now have submitted the W8BEN, will Amazon issue you a new cheque reimbursing you at the new tax rate ( in my case, came out at 5%)


I think it depends on whether you have an EIN or ITIN


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

If you have two accounts with Smashwords (one fore each pen name), I'm guessing you need one form for each account.

If you have a publisher account with Smashwords, you'll need the email address they use to pay you.


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> If you have two accounts with Smashwords (one fore each pen name), I'm guessing you need one form for each account.
> 
> If you have a publisher account with Smashwords, you'll need the email address they use to pay you.


Thanks
I will contact SW and see what they say


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

I had this


Patty Jansen said:


> If you have two accounts with Smashwords (one fore each pen name), I'm guessing you need one form for each account.
> 
> If you have a publisher account with Smashwords, you'll need the email address they use to pay you.


I contacted Smashwords about this a couple of weeks ago. As long as all the details on your second account are an exact match to your first, then they'll apply the W8BEN to your pen name account. Took about a week and a few emails back and forth, but it was sorted pretty quickly.


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

Dara England said:


> I filled out my tax info long ago so when I check my account now it says "complete". Judging by the date shown (August 2013) it looks like Amazon automatically checked/updated my info a few days ago, making sure I was current.


Same here. I just checked my information and it says they received tax information on 08/26/13. Well, they received it A LONG time ago, so I suppose they've been going through everyone's accounts and checking.

Geoff


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

GWakeling said:


> I had this
> I contacted Smashwords about this a couple of weeks ago. As long as all the details on your second account are an exact match to your first, then they'll apply the W8BEN to your pen name account. Took about a week and a few emails back and forth, but it was sorted pretty quickly.


So just put the original email address on the form and then email them that have a pen name?


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## GWakeling (Mar 23, 2012)

leearco said:


> So just put the original email address on the form and then email them that have a pen name?


Yes, if you're sending your W8BEN, fill in the details of your main account with your proper name, tax info etc on the form itself and then send it. Fill this information out on your pen name accounts too. Make sure the details are exactly the same - name, spellings, EINs etc and then email them to apply the information to your pen name account. You'll probably have to wait a while until they've applied the details to your main account first - a red box will appear at the top of your account page to show they've received the form.

I had to juggle a bit as I hadn't put my name in exactly the same (Geoff instead of Geoffrey), but they were very good and it didn't take long.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Got my EIN, tried to do the tax interview, but it gives "invalid". Maybe I'm being too impatient.

Boo. Hiss.


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## Keith Taylor (Mar 12, 2012)

For those of you who have received this warning and entered the information, did the warning message vanish instantly or did you have to wait a while? I completed the interview a couple of hours ago but it's still listed as invalid


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Invalid means that something went wrong. It means that your information is either incomplete or incorrect. In my case, it might be because I got my EIN only an hour before trying and it simply hadn't filtered through the servers yet. 

I'll try again tomorrow. If it's still listed as invalid, I will start pestering KDP staff, although I'm sure they're 200% overrun with similar inquiries.


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Invalid means that something went wrong. It means that your information is either incomplete or incorrect. In my case, it might be because I got my EIN only an hour before trying and it simply hadn't filtered through the servers yet.
> 
> I'll try again tomorrow. If it's still listed as invalid, I will start pestering KDP staff, although I'm sure they're 200% overrun with similar inquiries.


Mine says invalid too


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## Keith Taylor (Mar 12, 2012)

I managed to briefly remove the invalid warning by clearing the field in the middle of the questionnaire that establishes my home country as the United Kingdom. Unfortunately that left me with a 30% withholding rate.  WTF, Amazon?  All of my details are correct and identically match the W8-BEN I sent on behalf of Amazon, Smashwords and others.  This is driving me up the wall.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Theres's a box you can tick to say that you only got your EIN in the last 60 days, which tells them the system won't recognize it yet. It's really easy to miss!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Theres's a box you can tick to say that you only got your EIN in the last 60 days, which tells them the system won't recognize it yet. It's really easy to miss!


Yayayayayay! That was the problem.


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## Keith Taylor (Mar 12, 2012)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Theres's a box you can tick to say that you only got your EIN in the last 60 days, which tells them the system won't recognize it yet. It's really easy to miss!


I've had my EIN well over a year, unfortunately.


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## leearco (Jul 17, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Theres's a box you can tick to say that you only got your EIN in the last 60 days, which tells them the system won't recognize it yet. It's really easy to miss!


That seems to have been the problem with mine too

thank you


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Yay. Glad it's sorted.


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## Saffron (May 22, 2013)

I completed the form. The alternative was worse.

I am subject to the 30% witholding tax because the procedure in the UK for claiming the exemption under the treaty is a real hassle. You have to send your passport away, which means if you need it, you don't have it.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Saffron, you can still ring and get an EIN as listed earlier in this thread. You don't need to send your passport away for it, you just need to answer some questions over the phone.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Saffron, please read this: http://catherineryanhoward.com/2012/02/24/non-us-self-publisher-tax-issues-dont-need-to-be-taxing/

Do it. Also read the info that's on the KDP website about this issue. They also explain how to get an EIN.

All those little blue links on your KDP dashboard that say "more info" and "need help?"

Read them.


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## D.G.K. (Sep 4, 2013)

sarahdalton said:


> I can't remember which one that was or what I put! Is it the one about fiscal transparency?
> 
> Can you copy and paste all the info? It might jog my memory. I had my partner on hand to help and I can't remember what we discussed.


I am also having this same problem, there seem to be an array of answers with no definite resolution. If anybody knows this would be great! I can't seem to find the answers anywhere either. I have emailed KDP and received an answer like, as a tax specialist. Really? I'm don't know anybody of this nature and sure am not going to hire someone for the answer, why can't it be spelled out in real English? Are we, the publishers, the transparent entity? Is it our income this pertains to or KDP as the keeper of the income? This form asks things differently than the W8 we print off from the IRS site. Incidentally, I was told by the IRS that even if you fill out KDP w8 you should still fill out the hard copy and mail it to them. I hope somebody can answer soon.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

My warning didn't come back up since last Sunday, so apparently I appeased the IRS... I've run through all options and something finally caught on.

Two things - make sure you put 'no' at derive income (unless you're not the author getting royalties), and make sure to use the name the IRS has for you. No, three things, make sure you insert the EIN exactly as the IRS has send you, with dashes and whatever.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> My warning didn't come back up since last Sunday, so apparently I appeased the IRS... I've run through all options and something finally caught on.
> 
> Two things - make sure you put 'no' at derive income (unless you're not the author getting royalties), and make sure to use the name the IRS has for you. No, three things, make sure you insert the EIN exactly as the IRS has send you, with dashes and whatever.


Mine is still being carried across the Pacific Ocean in an outrigger canoe.

(I mean--why else would it take four weeks to get here?)


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Mine is still being carried across the Pacific Ocean in an outrigger canoe.
> 
> (I mean--why else would it take four weeks to get here?)


Has the warning returned/persisted? If not, the information you provided is agreeable to the IRS.


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## D.G.K. (Sep 4, 2013)

AnitaDobs said:


> I'd be really careful if they say you've updated your details.
> 
> Last time I did that by accident, and then the payments I'd put on hold because I'd not submitted my tax number yet, was then payed... with the tax I'll probably never get back taken off. They apologised and told me if you change any personal info, then a hold you put on your payments will automatically go back to 'pay you' status.
> 
> ...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

sarahdalton said:


> For an ITIN, right? But then you have to mail them your passport or driver's license. You can't send the W8-BEN without a Tax Identification Number, or I guess you could, but they would still withhold your tax.


I didn't have to do any of that. Went to a lawyer, spent 20 minutes, came home, had a latte, waited a few weeks, got my number in the mail.


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## RosieB (Feb 1, 2014)

Did anybody ever find out a definitive answer to the tax interview question from Amazon? Where it says:

"Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits? Income may be derived by either the entity receiving the item of income or by the interest holders in the entity or, in certain circumstances, both. An item of income paid to an entity is considered to be derived by the entity only if the entity is not fiscally transparent under the laws of the entity's jurisdiction with respect to the item of income."

I have no clue what this means! I'm replying as a publishing company, for which I have an EIN. But I'll be filling out my tax return as a sole trader, trading AS (publisher). Any advice would be much appreciated...


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

RosieB said:


> Did anybody ever find out a definitive answer to the tax interview question from Amazon? Where it says:
> 
> "Do you derive the income for which you can claim treaty benefits? Income may be derived by either the entity receiving the item of income or by the interest holders in the entity or, in certain circumstances, both. An item of income paid to an entity is considered to be derived by the entity only if the entity is not fiscally transparent under the laws of the entity's jurisdiction with respect to the item of income."
> 
> I have no clue what this means! I'm replying as a publishing company, for which I have an EIN. But I'll be filling out my tax return as a sole trader, trading AS (publisher). Any advice would be much appreciated...


No, you don't derive income. You're the publisher.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

sarahdalton said:


> For an ITIN, right? But then you have to mail them your passport or driver's license. You can't send the W8-BEN without a Tax Identification Number, or I guess you could, but they would still withhold your tax.
> 
> I hate making phone calls but made an exception this time as it took me an hour to get my reference number as opposed to about 6 weeks. Not to mention the expense of sending my passport to America. And I made the phone call at 5pm. It really wasn't that much of a big deal.
> 
> Anyway, each to their own!


I live in the UK and I didn't have to send my passport off to the US. I had to go to a solicitor's office, one that was authorised as a Notary (I think!). They were able, for a fee, to check my passport and fill in a form that I could send off to Amazon.


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