# Looking for a beta read / critique? (Formatting now available!)



## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

***JUNE 2017 UPDATE***
Some of the information in the original post is no longer accurate. I am working on going through it and updating it completely. However, you can check out all the new goods at our site: http://frostbitepublishing.com


I have been waiting for either my 1,000th post or 100th beta read transaction before posting this, but realized that those numbers are just very arbitrary. I am currently at 900 posts and 90 beta transactions. Close enough!

In 2012 and far into 2013, I struggled to find consistent, honest, valuable, timely beta readers for my wife's manuscripts. As some of you that have been around long enough to read my past posts already know, I handle the business side in our relationship so she can focus on writing. I never thought something as seemingly simple as finding beta readers that met all those criteria would be so hard. Often times the only people who would agree to do so were already fans of the books/series, so they never had anything substantial to say -- definitely nothing critical that would help improve the book(s). And, in true telemarketer fashion, I thought to myself, "Hey, there's got to be a better way!" And so, I offered a fan of the genre, who had never read any of the books, money to beta read. It came back awesome. I immediately re-uploaded the book with the changes and reviews started to come back more positive (this was an already published book, which isn't normal to have 'beta read', but still). I continued to do this to improve new works.

In late 2013 I began seeing a lot of posts here and other author-centric places looking for good beta reads and critiques, and I often threw out my thoughts on it. Some agreed. Some didn't. In either case, there was still the problem of actually finding someone trustworthy to do it ... especially now that money was in the equation. So, I decided to become that trusted person.

It began with a rinky-dink website on blogger, but has since been re-developed in 2014. As I mentioned earlier, we are up to 90 beta transactions and have never received negative feedback. Most of our customers have been from KBoards due to my signature (man I still always want to type 'KindleBoards'!). We have also grown from two beta readers to seven and are looking at adding an eighth in order to keep up with demand.

Here are some of the publicly-given testimonials for our beta reading service.

"_Outstanding service! Not only did it help improve my characters and story-line on the whole, having a chapter by chapter analysis enabled me to make the chapters themselves flow much better. Having a beta reader who knows how to make my story pop is an invaluable tool._" - KBoards member & Author

"_I was delighted with the speed and professionalism of Frostbite Publishing's beta service. The critique was exactly what I wished for: honest, helpful and encouraging. I will definitely reach out to Frostbite again for my next project._" - KBoards member & Author

"_I was surprised at how quickly my manuscript was returned. Usually speed can denote sloppiness, but everything was perfect!_" - Unsolicited beta customer

After trying out this business in sort of a 'private' setting (no posts, advertisement, etc) and being successful, I have decided it has been polished enough to bring to the forums.

If you have a new manuscript that needs beta read, or a previously released novel you are wanting to touch-up with a critique, please consider using our service. As stated earlier, I have definitely been in the position of needing these and there being seemingly no one qualified to give me what I required. We're here to fill that gap.

If you are interested in learning more about the service itself, you can either continue reading or visit our website at http://www.frostbitepublishing.com and click Services > Beta Read / Critique at the top. Our public testimonials are listed on the homepage.

As a warning, the content below this sentence is a direct copy+paste from our website. I wanted to put it here in order for everyone to be able to read it all without following a link if they would like. If you have any specific questions about a beta read, the process, etc, please either PM me here or direct inquiries to [email protected]

--- Enjoy this random polar bear to break up the seemingly endless wall of text! ---









*Beta Reader / Critique*

Do you need your manuscript critiqued, or your soon-to-be book beta read? Are you simply curious what a critique/beta read is, and how they are beneficial to authors? If so, you have come to the right place.

_*What is a beta reader?*_

A beta reader is someone who reads your story before it is published. A good beta reader is someone who is a reader first, not a writer, editor, or publisher. Ensuring the person beta reading your work and leaving feedback is an avid fan/reader in your book's genre is essential. Beta readers are not, however, editors. It is not their expertise or job to fix grammar or spelling. Many beta readers will make note of these mistakes as they catch them, but your work should be traditionally edited as well.

_*What does a beta reader do, then?*_

Since a great beta reader is already a fan of the genre, they are able to give unique insight into the mind of potential fans. Having an agent or editor tell you what people want to read is swell, but your main concern as an author should be the reader. They are the ones who will be buying your work. Here are a few of the things a typical FBP beta reader will do.

Let you know if the beginning of the book made them want to continue, or stop. (Many buyers will read the beginning of your book through samples. It needs to be compelling and hook readers early on in order to convert to sales and potential fans.
Report inconsistencies (This character was said to have brown hair in chapter three, but suddenly, in chapter sixteen, they have black hair.)
Report on plot holes
Report on overall flow (Does each chapter flow well into the next? Is it easily understandable for the reader? Are there parts that are potentially confusing and could be re-written?)
Suggest changes to make the story better
Report on characterization (Who did the reader like? Who was compelling? Which characters were flat and not developed enough?)
Give deep insight into your story from the mind of an avid reader in your genre
Highlight any noticeable grammar mistakes
Give 100% honest feedback (Having a friend or family member beta read is great, and I advocate it. However, they can sometimes be biased. Having a 'stranger' do your beta reading generally harbors better results.)

*What does a beta reader NOT do?*

Catch all grammar and spelling mistakes (Although most beta readers will catch many, this is a job for an editor and/or proofreader, not a beta.)
Line by line analyses (Our beta readers will comment heavily on each chapter and the overall book. There will be notes during the chapters as well; however, they will not make suggestions line by line. This is the job of a Line Editor.)
Rewrite (A beta reader will not rewrite any portion of your book or try to change the voice.)
Comment on formatting errors (Formatting at this stage may not be complete. In general, the beta reader will not comment on any formatting mistakes such as margins, tabs, double-spacing, etc.)
Public review (A beta reader will not leave a review of your book on any website.)

*Why should I have my manuscript beta read?*

Beta readers give you great, un-biased, helpful advice from a reader's perspective before your work is in front of the public eye. This can help to ensure you have not overlooked something vital within your novel and receive backlash from readers/reviewers when your story is live. It is amazing, but a writer can still miss things after reviewing and editing their manuscript a dozen times. This does not mean the writer/editors are not good at finding mistakes or that the writing itself is bad; it is just a normal product of the human mind. Similarly, writers can often be too hard on themselves and their story. They may try to over-complicate it, or believe it is not packed with enough to keep readers engaged. A beta reader will let you know all of this. This does not mean you need to take every single thing a beta reader says to heart. The process is immensely helpful, but in the end it is up to you to make the right changes in order to make the book better for readers.

The beta reader observations that match your own, or that nagging feeling you had in your stomach that something just wasn't quite right in a certain chapter or scene, will jump out immediately. Beta readers are often times great at pointing out things the writer knew they should have done differently, but for some reason, did not. Observations that do not resonate with the author for any reason should not be dismissed, though. Likewise, do not take a beta reader's negative comments personally. All of our beta readers are tactful, but foremost they are honest. Consider each one as you make your next sweep through the manuscript. Also, do not dismiss what a beta reader has said simply because you do not want to implement the time and effort required to change something. Ask yourself "If I changed this to match their suggestions, would it make a better scene? Would it make for a better book?"

Another great thing about beta readers is that you can have many. Often times if you have multiple beta readers and several comment on the same thing, you know there is some definite change to be made with that section.

*What do I receive with an FBP beta read?*

Once your manuscript has been accepted, and a beta reader matching your needs and genre has been chosen, they will receive your story as well as a document of forms. The forms are setup similar to surveys, but contain mostly open-ended questions. The form has three parts.

*The Beginning:* How did the story start out? Was it compelling? Would you continue reading this for leisure? Would you buy this book based on the beginning?
*The Chapters:* Each chapter has its own survey page for the beta reader to fill out. They will comment here on any inconsistencies, plot holes, and any other problems with that individual chapter as well as its relationship to the rest of the story.
*The Overall:* This is where the beta reader will point out any overall problems with the story. They will rate it for readability as well as how likely they would be to continue reading other works by this author based on the story. The beta will also be asked to fill out similar questions as the per-chapter summaries about characterization, plot, and inconsistencies.

You will receive all of these forms as soon as the beta reader has finished and submitted them. If you have any specific questions or specifics that a beta reader should keep an eye out for that our forms would not cover, please ask; we may be able to include this on their form/survey itself. Likewise, if you would prefer your beta reader to fill out a completely different form or questionnaire that you provide, we are happy to accommodate.

*Who are the beta readers?*

Our beta readers are, first and foremost, avid readers of their specified genres. We carefully select beta readers based on a number of criteria, including but not limited to: honesty, tactfulness, quality, speed. Our beta readers are consistent in the time it takes them to deliver back a concise, informative critique. We do accept requests to become a beta reader. If you are interested please visit THIS LINK. Applicants who do not follow the specified instructions at the link provided will be denied without response. Not currently accepting new beta-readers.

If you would like to browse our current list of beta readers, please follow the link provided below.
Click Here

*How long does this take? Can I have more than one at a time?*

The amount of time required for a beta read is subjective due to each manuscript being of a different length. In general, however, our beta readers can each do a full length novel a week (75k).

If you are interested in having multiple beta readers at a time, that is perfectly fine. If a specific beta reader has been requested and they are currently already obligated to another beta reading project, we will let you know.

*How much does it cost?*

Our pricing is extremely reasonable when compared to any competing manuscript critique service across the web. In fact, our rates are often hundreds of dollars cheaper. Cheapness, in this case however, does not denote quality. Our beta readers are able to do this service at such a low price because they enjoy it. Not only do they love reading in their specified genre, they feel thrilled to help an aspiring or established author perfect their work for other readers to enjoy.

Our pricing for beta reading and critiquing a manuscript is currently a low $0.001 per word. To determine the price of beta reading your manuscript, simply plug in the actual word count (not including title, front matter, chapter headings, and back matter) and multiply the number by .001. At this time the minimum purchase amount for a beta read is $15.00. For examples of this pricing model, please see the chart below.

_*Word Count	Beta Read Price*_
<15k - $15
30k - $30
50k - $50
80k - $80
100k - $100
150k - $150
250k - $250

*I'm sold, how do I submit my manuscript?*

Let me first say that we are extremely happy you have chosen to trust in our great team of dedicated beta readers. In order to start the process simply fill out the below form and we will contact you soon after about your request. We look forward to working with you, and our beta readers can't wait to read your book!

----

For you KBoarders still reading, if you are interested in submitting now, you can find the form at the bottom of the service page at this link: http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/beta


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## C Ryan Bymaster (Oct 4, 2013)

Hey All!

I've used Frostbite for three of my books so far and I plan on using them in the future. Fast turnaround, honest feedback, and they even ask if there are any specifics you want the beta reader to pay attention to as they read your MS. (And they won't miss a thing, trust me)

Best of all, the low price! If you want to save on the cost of an editor this is the definitely way to go to get your book where it needs to be.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words. 

It was a pleasure working with you (on all three projects!).


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Four new projects for KBoards members have been completed since my last post in this thread -- still accepting new clients!


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## Lyoung (Oct 21, 2013)

Bookmarked! I hope you'll have space for me when I publish in the next couple of months.

Thank you!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Lydia Young said:


> Bookmarked! I hope you'll have space for me when I publish in the next couple of months.
> 
> Thank you!


Hi, Lydia. Looking forward to receiving that manuscript! 

---
We had three new orders come in tonight, but still very much welcome new requests. If you have any questions, please don't be shy -- ask here, send me a private message, or shoot us an e-mail at FBP {at} frostbitepublishing {dot} com.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Two of our beta readers finished up their current projects today. Get your requests in now!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

I can also vouch for the quality of this service. I do have two other beta readers I work with, but the input I've gotten from Arynn is thoughtful and complete. Their turnaround times are very good, too. Right now I'm planning to use Frostbite's beta-reading services for all my books.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

ChristinePope said:


> I can also vouch for the quality of this service. I do have two other beta readers I work with, but the input I've gotten from Arynn is thoughtful and complete. Their turnaround times are very good, too. Right now I'm planning to use Frostbite's beta-reading services for all my books.


Thank you for the kind words, Christine! Hope to see you again soon. 

We received two new requests today, but still have more slots open.


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## callan (Feb 29, 2012)

Adam Poe said:


> We received two new requests today, but still have more slots open.


Well, I'd like to try this service out, so I'll take one of them. I've submitted my details through your website.

BTW, this is a great idea--I have beta readers, but no one ever is available when I need them--and one of my 2014 goals is to create a publishing schedule and stick to it.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

callan said:


> Well, I'd like to try this service out, so I'll take one of them. I've submitted my details through your website.
> 
> BTW, this is a great idea--I have beta readers, but no one ever is available when I need them--and one of my 2014 goals is to create a publishing schedule and stick to it.


Happy we could help you out, Cal.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Wrapped up four more today. Several beta readers still open.


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## Connie Chastain (Jun 25, 2011)

Bookmarked, and keeping you in mind for when my manuscript reaches critique stage.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Connie Chastain said:


> Bookmarked, and keeping you in mind for when my manuscript reaches critique stage.


Thanks Connie


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Emily and Stephanie are both booked for the next 7-10 days but are currently open after that. Arynn is locked in for the foreseeable future (Paranormal is awfully popular  ). Denny has a new read starting next week. All other beta readers *on our list* are currently available!


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

wow. I love this idea and will def use FB in the future, unless one of them is willing to beta 20K as an episode 8 of a 9 part series. LOL In which case, Huzzah! Have I got a 20K episode 8 for you!.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Welcome to KBoards! You're welcome to promote your business and website here in the Writers' Café, but we ask that the same basic rules be followed as we have for authors in the Book Bazaar: you may have _one_ thread and must post to it rather than start a new thread each time. New threads will be removed.

Please bookmark this thread so that you can find it again to post to. And, you _may not make back-to-back posts within seven days_. If someone responds (such as this post), you may reply but otherwise must wait seven days, thanks!

Ann
KB Moderator


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

theaatkinson said:


> wow. I love this idea and will def use FB in the future, unless one of them is willing to beta 20K as an episode 8 of a 9 part series. LOL In which case, Huzzah! Have I got a 20K episode 8 for you!.


Well, it may not be as thorough as it would be if the beta had read the previous installments ... but we wouldn't turn it down. 



Ann in Arlington said:


> Welcome to KBoards! You're welcome to promote your business and website here in the Writers' Cafe, but we ask that the same basic rules be followed as we have for authors in the Book Bazaar: you may have _one_ thread and must post to it rather than start a new thread each time. New threads will be removed.
> 
> Please bookmark this thread so that you can find it again to post to. And, you _may not make back-to-back posts within seven days_. If someone responds (such as this post), you may reply but otherwise must wait seven days, thanks!
> 
> ...


lol, Ann. I have been here for a few years and have had other promo/book threads regarding other services in which I have known and followed the rules on. Weird seeing the 'Welcome to KBoards' message!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Adam Poe said:


> Arynn is locked in for the foreseeable future (Paranormal is awfully popular.)


Oh, noes!!!! I'm going to need her in about a week or so! 

Do bribes of chocolate/extra cash flung in her direction work??


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

ChristinePope said:


> Oh, noes!!!! I'm going to need her in about a week or so!
> 
> Do bribes of chocolate/extra cash flung in her direction work??


lol

She's actually been keeping an eye on your website/release date and told me she would make an exception to fit you in for that series. You're safe!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Oh, thank goodness! I was having a major panic attack!  

I'm going to finish it up this weekend and be polishing it next week, so I should have it by Friday at the latest. I'll contact you via your website when I'm ready.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

Just signed up to use Lee on my fourth book. We'll see how it goes.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks everyone!

Current Availability

*Amanda *- 7/19+
*Arynn *- N/A
*Lee *- 7/14+
*Carlos *- 7/12+
*Denny *- 7/16+
*Emily* - 7/12+
*Stephanie *- N/A


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Denny completed a beta read of my dystopian fairy tale, _The Tree Hugger_, last week.

It was my first experience with using Frostbite, which I discovered here on this thread, and I was totally 100% satisfied with the experience. I'll definitely be using FB with all my future releases. Very professional and pleasant to deal with

THANKS, ADAM & DENNY!!!!!!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Can I book Arynn for next January? (I'm only slightly kidding....)


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

heidi_g said:


> Denny completed a beta read of my dystopian fairy tale, _The Tree Hugger_, last week.
> 
> It was my first experience with using Frostbite, which I discovered here on this thread, and I was totally 100% satisfied with the experience. I'll definitely be using FB with all my future releases. Very professional and pleasant to deal with
> 
> THANKS, ADAM & DENNY!!!!!!


Thank you so much for the kind words, Heidi! I'm glad you found the service helpful.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

ChristinePope said:


> Can I book Arynn for next January? (I'm only slightly kidding....)


lol

I will see what she says tomorrow.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Looking for more submissions! Amanda just finished three Paranormal Romance betas and is now free. Lee and Denny are now free as well!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Oh my. I'll certainly be using one of your beta readers here really soon. =D Bookmarked!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Cryptic Fawn said:


> Oh my. I'll certainly be using one of your beta readers here really soon. =D Bookmarked!


Looking forward to it


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Spots open!


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## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

With whom, Adam?


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## callan (Feb 29, 2012)

I should also chime in here. Carlos was fast and efficient with Company Daughter, and I would ask for him again.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> With whom, Adam?


Currently Amanda has four scheduled back-to-back. Arynn is not available. Lee is pending a non-fiction beta. The others listed are available immediately - http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

callan said:


> I should also chime in here. Carlos was fast and efficient with Company Daughter, and I would ask for him again.


Thanks, Cal!


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Adam Poe said:


> Currently Amanda has four scheduled back-to-back. Arynn is not available. Lee is pending a non-fiction beta. The others listed are available immediately - http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders


Ooh, glad I got my books scheduled, lol!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

heidi_g said:


> Ooh, glad I got my books scheduled, lol!


Yep, good plan - she has six in the queue.


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## Erin Satie (Mar 21, 2014)

I tried this. The reader I got HATED my book & so you can take my response with a grain of salt, if you like. 

So, pro: the reader was definitely honest. I don't mean that sarcastically--honesty can be hard to come by.

But, con: the reader was not USEFUL. I had a strong impression that my reader disliked my work and THEREFORE had not done a good job with her critique. Which is fair enough, if you're not paying the person, but particularly aggravating when you are. I basically paid for a snarky goodreads review of my book. And while those snarky reviews can be really helpful when telling other readers whether or not to click "buy", they're really not helpful to the author--in this case, me--at all.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey Erin - I sent you a followup e-mail regarding this, as well as refunded part of the beta reading cost. I'm sorry that Emily did not make a good match for your writing style and story.

---

Bump+Status: Amanda, Denaya, and Stephanie are pretty fully booked but we are able to add to their queue. Lee currently has one in the pipe; Emily is fully available.

---

I recently had an issue with Bluehost's mail service in which it was not forwarding all messages to the webmail client. It has been resolved. If you have put in a request in the last two weeks but still have gotten no reply, please shoot us a new e-mail to FBP {at} frostbitepublishing {dot} com.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Lee and Emily are both open immediately. Amanda will be available again starting Sept. 2nd.

Submit!


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

I used Emily to get a beta-read on my middle grade novel. I thought she did an excellent job. Was very happy with her critique. 

Rue


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Just got another beta read back from Frostbite. Really, really helpful! Thanks Amanda and Adam  Honestly, I'd rather hear it from a beta reader than a reviewer!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks Rue and Heidi


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Pretty well booked right now, but always looking for more authors.


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## Azalea (Mar 22, 2014)

Bookmarked! I think this could be an extremely useful service, and I'll likely be using it within the next month. Thanks, Adam.


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Just want to pop in and say I've received my third beta read from Frostbite, this one from Sheila, and I remain very satisfied with their services and am super happy they exist!


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Sheila has completed a second beta read for me, and it was so helpful. I had a list of questions based on her feedback, and appreciate the time she took to offer thoughtful answers.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks again for the kind words, Heidi!

We are still (and always) looking for more beta manuscripts, though our 'regulars' list is getting (thankfully) 'full'. 

Also, as an exciting piece of news, we will be revamping the entire website soon to be more appealing, relevant, and user friendly, as well as working to add an editing service. I am in talks with a professional editor I have used on a freelance basis before. If all goes well, I will be starting a post about the new service in the next couple of months. Super excited!


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## Rae Scott Studio (Jan 26, 2014)

I am going to bookmark this. I have spent forever looking for GOOD beta readers that didnt tell me how to write my book. LOL While I have 2 now I am positive at the rate I am going at some point soon in the future they will not be available when I need them.


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## August8 (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm going to bookmark this page too! So many great reviews. 

Hopefully it won't be too long before you hear from me


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks Rae and August - looking forward to it!


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## SofiaM (Feb 12, 2014)

Sheila just did the beta read for my newest book.  She was excellent and objective.  Lots of good tips included - and it was quickly done as well.  

Thanks to Adam, who gave great communication during the process.  I will certainly use the service again.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

SofiaM said:


> Sheila just did the beta read for my newest book. She was excellent and objective. Lots of good tips included - and it was quickly done as well.
> 
> Thanks to Adam, who gave great communication during the process. I will certainly use the service again.


Thanks, Sofia!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

I completely re-designed the website about a month ago and hired on some more bodies. Looking for more work now! If you need beta reading or formatting, be sure to check us out!

http://frostbitepublishing.com


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

This is awesome. I have had such bad luck finding beta readers and the ones I did use didn't offer much helpful advice at all. I am bookmarking your site and going to contact you with my next project.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Sherry_Soule said:


> This is awesome. I have had such bad luck finding beta readers and the ones I did use didn't offer much helpful advice at all. I am bookmarking your site and going to contact you with my next project.


Awesome! Looking forward to hearing from you soon.


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## Reaper (Nov 5, 2013)

Excellent Adam, I'll be looking at contacting beta readers in February, I'll make your site my first port of call!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Steven McKinnon said:


> Excellent Adam, I'll be looking at contacting beta readers in February, I'll make your site my first port of call!


Awesome! - Looking forward to it!


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Although I think that fans of a series can make excellent beta readers, I think that beta readers are probably the thing NO ONE can skip on, and too many people do because they don't know how to find beta readers.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

C. Gockel said:


> I think that beta readers are probably the thing NO ONE can skip on, and too many people do because they don't know how to find beta readers.


Thanks CG!  I agree, of course.


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

Just wanted to mention how pleased I am with Adam's offerings. The beta reader I team with has been amazing. the turn around is pretty durn quick, and the feedback has been critical for me. I just can't gush enough about how happy I am to have found them here.

Since my first beta read with Frostbite, I now run everything through their beta reader service.


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## Jomill (Dec 6, 2014)

How you got someone who can beta read literary fiction?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

theaatkinson said:


> Just wanted to mention how pleased I am with Adam's offerings. The beta reader I team with has been amazing. the turn around is pretty durn quick, and the feedback has been critical for me. I just can't gush enough about how happy I am to have found them here.
> 
> Since my first beta read with Frostbite, I now run everything through their beta reader service.


Thanks for the kind words, Thea. Amanda is starting your new beta on Monday (after she finishes current)!



Jomill said:


> How you got someone who can beta read literary fiction?


Yes, we have done several. Generally Sheila takes these. You can find her profile at: http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Just sent my latest to Frostbite for a beta read. They provide such a great service!


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## J.A. Cipriano (May 27, 2014)

It appears this website is down. It worked yesterday though.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

JACipriano said:


> It appears this website is down. It worked yesterday though.


The host had a 15 minute maintenance today, but it should be working now.

Is it still showing as down for you?


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## WPipp (Dec 9, 2014)

Adam,

It looks like your domain name expired on the 12/8.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

WPipp said:


> Adam,
> 
> It looks like your domain name expired on the 12/8.


That is really odd as I recently renewed my domains for another 9 years with a promo deal! Thanks for the heads up on what you all are seeing. Contacting Godaddy now.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Resolved - They had the wrong PayPal account. 

If anyone is still having trouble, please let me know!


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## Alex Rogers (Jan 7, 2014)

Bookmarked!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Lee and Sheila are both available immediately.

Formatting is currently available immediately.

Check us out!

http://frostbitepublishing.com


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Sheila available immediately.
Amanda available in ~one week.
Lee available in ~one week.

Formatting available immediately.


Isn't it about time you had your NaNoWriMo novel beta read?


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Just received an amazing beta read from Sheila for the second installment of my fantasy series. What a huge help!!!!! Thank you, Sheila and Adam


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

heidi_g said:


> Just received an amazing beta read from Sheila for the second installment of my fantasy series. What a huge help!!!!! Thank you, Sheila and Adam


Thanks again, Heidi!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Lee and Sheila is available again. Amanda will be in 3-5 days.


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## Reaper (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi Adam,

Does your beta reading service cover creative non-fiction as well?

Many thanks!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Steven,

Thanks for the reply. We do. Lee generally covers creative non-fiction beta reads depending on the specific sub-genre. Shoot me a PM or e-mail us with more information and we can go from there.


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## Reaper (Nov 5, 2013)

Excellent, thanks Adam. I'll be in touch soon!


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Hi Adam,

I booked a beta reader for one of my mysteries yesterday, but I didn't get transferred to paypal. Has my request gone through? Do I pay at the end, rather than when I book the beta reader?
Geraldine


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

hardnutt said:


> Hi Adam,
> 
> I booked a beta reader for one of my mysteries yesterday, but I didn't get transferred to paypal. Has my request gone through? Do I pay at the end, rather than when I book the beta reader?
> Geraldine


Geraldine,

I e-mailed you earlier today. Please let me know if you still haven't received the reply.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Hi Adam,

Thanks, I received your (very comprehensive) email. Bookmarked. I'll leave it to you to decide which of your readers will make the best match. But if you can just remind them that British spelling and slang is used in this book, please? Also, it would be helpful if your reader notes if the meaning of any specific slang isn't clear from the context.

I'm impressed by the many favourable responses you've received on WC. Sending my book now! No immediate urgency. Within a month is fine.

Thanks.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

We're quickly nearing our 200 beta read milestone! 

Why not help us get there by giving our beta reading service a try and seeing what all the fuss is about?


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

I used Adam's beta reading service this month and I was very pleased with my beta reader (Sheila) for my mystery.

She caught a couple of places where I'd used the wrong name (Gawd!), pointed out areas where the plot could be made a little clearer and queried the British slang she was unable to find explained online, as well as making comments on each chapter's contents.

I'll definitely be booking Adam and Sheila again. Highly recommended. 5 Stars!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

hardnutt said:


> I used Adam's beta reading service this month and I was very pleased with my beta reader (Sheila) for my mystery.
> 
> She caught a couple of places where I'd used the wrong name (Gawd!), pointed out areas where the plot could be made a little clearer and queried the British slang she was unable to find explained online, as well as making comments on each chapter's contents.
> 
> I'll definitely be booking Adam and Sheila again. Highly recommended. 5 Stars!


Thank you for the kind words! I hope to hear from you again soon.


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## harker.roland (Sep 13, 2014)

Definate bookmark for later. What a great service!


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## Annabel Chant (Feb 24, 2015)

Hi, I just wanted to add to others comments, and say what a fantastic service! It's my birthday today, and I've just received the feedback on the first book in my series. I couldn't have asked for a better birthday present! I'm stoked! Loved the humour in the comments, too.  

Thanks so much to Sheila, and to Adam for arranging it all!

Annabel


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

I'll add my recommendation, too. I've used Frostbite twice now for beta reading, and both times had excellent feedback in a very timely manner. The beta readers make comments inline, do a chapter by chapter analysis and an overall assessment. It's really excellent value for money.

I'll certainly be using them again.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thank you for the kind words Pauline and Annabel!


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## Aya Ling (Nov 21, 2012)

Just wanted to chime in with my recommendation as well! Sheila completed my 100k novel in 8 days, and caught loads of errors that slipped past multiple readers. Definitely will use them again


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Aya Ling said:


> Just wanted to chime in with my recommendation as well! Sheila completed my 100k novel in 8 days, and caught loads of errors that slipped past multiple readers. Definitely will use them again


Thanks for the kind words, Aya! The turn-around time would have been a few days quicker at that length, however Sheila was in queue at the time.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

We recently passed the 200 mark on number of paid beta reads. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has submitted a manuscript. KBoards was a huge chunk of that number!


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## JKata (Dec 9, 2014)

This looks like a great service. Do you, by any chance have beta readers who specialize in historical romance, specifically Regency/Victorian period?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi Joy. You can check out our beta readers and their profiles here - http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders

Anna and Sheila both have experience with reading historical romance novels.


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## JKata (Dec 9, 2014)

Thanks, Adam. I'll check them out.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

Hi Adam, do you have anyone who is familiar with upmarket contemporary or literary fiction?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Laura Rae Amos said:


> Hi Adam, do you have anyone who is familiar with upmarket contemporary or literary fiction?


Laura - Yes. Anna has the most experience (and interest) in your genre. Sheila has also done a few literary betas, but not as many as Anna.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks!


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

Just wanted to say I had a great beta read by Carlos. I felt like he really paid attention to the book, and he made a couple of great suggestions that I've integrated into the story. I'm very happy!


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Thank you for providing such a wonderful service to the writing community. Sheila did a great job with the beta read for my cozy mystery. I'm glad she enjoyed the story.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words Darcy and Anne!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I might contact you soon, I've only had one beta reader so far (whom I found on Reddit) and I'd love a second opinion. Does the manuscript have to be in a particular format? Mine's all up on Wordpress, but I could create a bunch of Word documents.

Would any of your beta readers enjoy a dark superhero deconstruction?


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Hi Adam

This sounds like a really great service!

I wanted to ask, I tried figuring out going post by post, page by page, but I'm not sure I have the full scope, so if its not a bother, would you mind listing all the genres you guys cover there? I'm versatile with genre so I kinda have to know this lol

Also, I'm very very low on budget now, and the little that I have I try to frugally prioritize on varied necessities, but I'm gonna save up some stuff on the side for precisely this service. Not only beta-reading, but I'd also like to try formatting and editing services, which I think you mentioned are in plans, and by the time I contact you as a client, I think they will be in play. So like many others I'm bookmarking you guys for near future 

PS: Do you offer any other payment method other than Paypal?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

C. Rysalis said:


> I might contact you soon, I've only had one beta reader so far (whom I found on Reddit) and I'd love a second opinion. Does the manuscript have to be in a particular format? Mine's all up on Wordpress, but I could create a bunch of Word documents.
> 
> Would any of your beta readers enjoy a dark superhero deconstruction?


Sorry for the late reply. On top of a crazy week, I somehow didn't get the notice that the thread had been replied to like I normally do.

As long as the manuscript is in a format Microsoft Word can open, we can use it. This is because the beta reader(s) use Word's Track Changes function.

As far as dark superhero, I would recommend either Kyle or Carlos (though we have several more who enjoy the genre). You can check our list of readers and their profiles here -> http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders

Looking forward to hearing from you soon!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Alex Volta said:


> Hi Adam
> 
> This sounds like a really great service!
> 
> ...


Hi Alex, thanks for the reply!

We do just about any genre. Currently, though, we do not have anyone who specializes or vastly enjoys non-fiction nor M/M erotica. The genres listed on each beta reader's profile are simply their favorites, and not the limit to what they read or have beta read.

As far as additional services, we currently offer beta reading and formatting. Editing is still being implemented but unfortunately doesn't look like it will be ready for public launch until mid/late Summer.

Let me know if you have any more questions!


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Adam Poe said:


> Hi Alex, thanks for the reply!
> 
> We do just about any genre. Currently, though, we do not have anyone who specializes or vastly enjoys non-fiction nor M/M erotica. The genres listed on each beta reader's profile are simply their favorites, and not the limit to what they read or have beta read.
> 
> As far as additional services, we currently offer beta reading and formatting. Editing is still being implemented but unfortunately doesn't look like it will be ready for public launch until mid/late Summer.


Thank you very much for the reply Adam! 

From what you told me then, I'd definitely will be using your services .



> Let me know if you have any more questions!


Well yes, I actually had one more, that you probably missed in my last post:



Alex Volta said:


> PS: Do you offer any other payment method other than Paypal?


I'm sure it was accidental. By the sound of it, you guys had a pretty busy, hectic week, so these things can happen .


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## Guest (May 3, 2015)

What does a beta reader NOT do?

Take money to read your work.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

DanaE said:


> What does a beta reader NOT do?
> 
> Take money to read your work.


Hm, I guess that depends on your definition of beta reader. I've always sought paid beta readers, because I don't want the person who's critiquing my work to have any reason to not be completely honest. That lets out most of my lovely, supportive family and friends, as well as anyone who is a huge fan and can't wait to read the next book for free. I want a person who wants to be paid, so we're both seeing it as a professional contract, not a favor.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

DanaE said:


> What does a beta reader NOT do?
> 
> Take money to read your work.


Before KBoards, I wasn't aware of paid beta reading, either. But, having read through many threads over the years, I've learned that there definitely is such a thing and that, as Maria says and as the many other posters in this thread have indicated by their use of the service, many authors prefer paid beta-readers.

Just goes to show that, as we say many times here, there is no one path.

Betsy


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Alex Volta said:


> Well yes, I actually had one more, that you probably missed in my last post:
> 
> I'm sure it was accidental. By the sound of it, you guys had a pretty busy, hectic week, so these things can happen .


Woops! We receive our payments through PayPal but the invoice itself can be paid with any* credit or debit card.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Adam Poe said:


> Woops! We receive our payments through PayPal but the invoice itself can be paid with any* credit or debit card.


I think we could arrange something when the time comes. I have a debit card with Payoneer, and I think its allowed for transfers between Payoneer and Paypal to take place when it comes to funds. I'll look into it.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

DanaE said:


> What does a beta reader NOT do?
> 
> Take money to read your work.


I used this service and I got an excellent beta read from Anna. I have absolutely no regrets about paying for a beta read because it was timely, thorough, and very professional, and the price was perfect. I would absolutely do it again!

Of course, you don't have to pay for beta readers, and if you're lucky enough to have a stable of quick, honest, thorough beta readers, then more power to you! But free beta readers come with their own drawbacks too. They sometimes fail to deliver feedback because they get too busy, or they can't explain exactly what they're thinking because they haven't worked with authors before, or if they're friends, they may spare you the honest truth about something because they don't want to hurt your feelings. Hiring a professional beta is hardly a "wrong" thing to do.


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## heidi_g (Nov 14, 2013)

Belated thank you to Sheila and Adam for all their help with my Daughter of Light trilogy. Sheila has been such a wonderful reader.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks Laura and Heidi! Hope to hear from each of you again before too long.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey everyone. I thought I would pop in to let everyone know what is going on really quick.

We just moved across the country and missed a bit of e-mails on the way due to bad hotel internet. It seems as the auto-responder on the contact form did not function properly to let everyone know, either.

As you can imagine, I have a ton of business e-mails and inquiries to catch up on from the two weeks or so of our move, however I will be responding to each today.

Thanks again,
Adam


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## Susanne123 (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm quite new to posting on K-boards and usually just post cheerleading messages, but I did want to say that I used Adam's services and had Sheila do a beta reading of my mystery. I have critique partners, but I wanted fresh eyes, so to speak. A person's time is so valuable, that I had no issue with paying for this service (in fact, I think the fee is on the low side).

The beta feedback was amazing. Sheila was fast, but I could tell she'd read everything carefully because of her comments. I really just wanted to know if the mystery made sense, and where I'd gone off the rails. I got all that and more.

I'd watched Adam and Lindsay Buroker's podcasts, so I had some familiarity with Adam, and I had trust/comfort in that. 

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this service.


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## TromboneAl (Mar 20, 2015)

I realize that publishing is closed right now, but on this page:

http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/publishing/

It says that the formatting, book cover, marketing, etc. is FREE. I must be misunderstanding something.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

TromboneAl said:


> I realize that publishing is closed right now, but on this page:
> 
> http://www.frostbitepublishing.com/publishing/
> 
> It says that the formatting, book cover, marketing, etc. is FREE. I must be misunderstanding something.


Those are services that are used on any books that we completely publish for authors who want to do none of it themselves. For authors publishing their own books, each of those services are associated with a cost.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Susanne123 said:


> I'm quite new to posting on K-boards and usually just post cheerleading messages, but I did want to say that I used Adam's services and had Sheila do a beta reading of my mystery. I have critique partners, but I wanted fresh eyes, so to speak. A person's time is so valuable, that I had no issue with paying for this service (in fact, I think the fee is on the low side).
> 
> The beta feedback was amazing. Sheila was fast, but I could tell she'd read everything carefully because of her comments. I really just wanted to know if the mystery made sense, and where I'd gone off the rails. I got all that and more.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words, Susanne!


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

I've had some poor experiences with "free" beta readers, just picking people up on sites like Goodreads. Some good ones, too, don't get me wrong, but it's fairly random. I can go for weeks and only get "yeah, it was good," or I can get some more in-depth analysis, such as inconsistencies. A paid service, I feel, would add consistency and I'll know what i'm getting, so I've been looking for something efficient like this.

How far in advance do we need to book? I'll have done my own first sweep by July 1st. Is there a waiting list?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

We're closing in on *THREE HUNDRED* betas! Thanks to everyone who has entrusted us with your manuscripts!


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## phyler (Oct 10, 2015)

Don't do it. Horrible, useless waste of time and money. The "feedback" was an absolute joke. Seriously, the reader seemed more interested in making jokes and cutesy comments to show how clever they were than making actual, thoughtful feedback about the ms they were getting paid to read. 

If you're not satisfied, expect a guilt trip about how much they get paid (fyi, they charge the same as everyone on fiverr who does beta reading and proofreading--and there's plenty to choose from--but you can easily get a refund on fiverr if you're not happy). Avoid these amateurs.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

phyler said:


> Don't do it. Horrible, useless waste of time and money. The "feedback" was an absolute joke. Seriously, the reader seemed more interested in making jokes and cutesy comments to show how clever they were than making actual, thoughtful feedback about the ms they were getting paid to read.
> 
> If you're not satisfied, expect a guilt trip about how much they get paid (fyi, they charge the same as everyone on fiverr who does beta reading and proofreading--and there's plenty to choose from--but you can easily get a refund on fiverr if you're not happy). Avoid these amateurs.


Hello Phyler. Yes, I know it is you as you are the only unhappy author I can think of out of our near 300 completed reads. Thanks for making an account here to complain rather than e-mailing me directly.

'Phyler's' beta reader, for .001c/word, read her 122k word manuscript and left 315 comments within. This is in addition to answering five questions _per chapter_ via secondary survey as well as additional questions provided by the author. These answers totaled a whopping 4.2 thousand words of information and suggested changes to improve the manuscript.

Once this beta read was returned, 'Phyler' claimed she couldn't use the Word documents and said the read was useless. This is after agreeing to my first two e-mails which clearly stated our process required the use of Word and track changes (and sending a Word readable manuscript). Despite this, I did some research and was able to provide 'Phyler' with a .PDF version of the manuscript which included all track changes and comment mark-ups.

Once this was sent, 'Phyler' replied and stated the feedback process was useless and that she could not make sense of it. This is after agreeing to the process I outlined in our original e-mail (as anyone else here has e-mailed me regarding beta reads know, I explain exactly how the process is done and even include links to examples). She demanded that Sheila take the forms back and re-do all interior comments and track changes into the survey file instead, including listing which page/section each one came from. This seemed extremely redundant and unnecessary as the comments/changes were already marked *ON* the page they were from.

I gave 'Phyler' a large discount (90$ instead of 122$) due to the beta read taking several more days than originally planned thanks to her beta reader becoming sick as well as her disappointment with the process (the process that she agreed to in the beginning). Despite this, 'Phyler' said she had re-written some of the book and demanded Sheila re-do those chapters completely (for free). This is when I gave the 'guilt trip' about how much the beta was getting paid. After Paypal and business cuts in addition to the large discount we gave off the original 122$, Sheila walked away with roughly 70 dollars for over 30 hours of work. That's barely more than two dollars an hour for the quality content provided. Phyler was unconcerned and thought her reader should do new, additional re-worked chapters for free--out of the goodness of their heart, I suppose.

Lastly, 'Phyler' said she had additional, follow-up questions for Sheila. Sheila has specifically said that she will not take direct e-mails from anyone for security and privacy reasons, but is happy to answer any additional questions an author has (this was stated to Phyler as well). As such, the author only need send the questions to me and I auto-forward them to Sheila. 'Phyler' refused to do this process and never sent her follow-up questions. Instead, her last e-mail regarded how she would run my business instead. This was on 9/4/2015, more than a month ago now.

Perhaps 'Phyler' was under the impression she would receive complete content or developmental editing. If so, though, I am unsure how she took the explanation of what we do and our process from both our website and my initial e-mails to her to mean that. We provide a beta reading service as such that our readers read the manuscript and give as detailed account of what they think throughout the read as possible. We do this for a very reasonable price juxtaposed to the time it takes. We are able to do this because the beta readers are fans of the genres and generally enjoy the work. Still, we are running a business, and can't give away extra worked hours for additional processes requested after the job agreed upon has been completed.

_Edited to remove links and identifying info. --Betsy_


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Contacted you via your site, Adam.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Rickie Blair said:


> Contacted you via your site, Adam.


Replied.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Hi Adam, 

I understand the desire to defend your service, but putting even a paragraph of the author's manuscript up for public consumption is a step too far.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

There have been reports . . . . locked while we review . . . it will likely be tomorrow before it's re-opened.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Unlocked. Posts have been edited or removed.  Let's keep it civil here.  

Note that civil constructive honest feedback on services is appropriate in vendor threads, and how the vendor responds to such feedback is instructive.

Also note that any service is bound to have an unhappy customer now and then.  No service is for everyone.  Again, how the vendor responds to that customer is often instructive.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Adam,
In light of the unfortunate samples you did post here (that were thankfully removed), I think it would be a good idea if you worked with one of your clients to see if they would allow you to post samples like that on your site. I found that the ones you posted here were insightful to the type of feedback your betas provide.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Will C. Brown said:


> Adam,
> In light of the unfortunate samples you did post here (that were thankfully removed), I think it would be a good idea if you worked with one of your clients to see if they would allow you to post samples like that on your site. I found that the ones you posted here were insightful to the type of feedback your betas provide.


Thanks for the suggestion, Will. 

The three images I posted should have only showed the beta readers comments, survey, and track changes numbers and nothing else (the actual author's manuscript pieces cropped out). At least that is what I see when I go to the hosted links, now. I did use the webhost's image cropping tool, though, so it might have been showing the cached, original images at first. As these images do not contain any portion of the manuscript, I'd like to re-post them but am leery since they were still removed. I have a whole bunch of formats/betas/site designs to do this week, but have added this bit you suggested to the ever stacking virtual queue!


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

I've used Adam's services several times and have zero complaints. The job of a beta readers is not to edit the book, but to give overall impressions, point out weaknesses, and flag plot holes.

The helpful suggestions I've received have undoubtably resulted in better books.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Adam Poe said:


> The three images I posted should have only showed the beta readers comments, survey, and track changes numbers and nothing else (the actual author's manuscript pieces cropped out). At least that is what I see when I go to the hosted links, now. I did use the webhost's image cropping tool, though, so it might have been showing the cached, original images at first. As these images do not contain any portion of the manuscript, I'd like to re-post them but am leery since they were still removed.


Adam, to be specific, the links you posted were not removed because they contained manuscript content (though I didn't check the links until this morning when I read the report), but because they contained work product between you and a client without, as far as I can tell, the client's permission to post it. That is not something we would allow here, any more than we would allow posting of email communications between you and the client without mutual consent.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## JLCarver (Sep 13, 2015)

As someone who has worked in customer service for the majority of my working life, and who has also been in the management side of customer service and staff management for a number of years, my initial gut reaction to reading the post directed at the customer was... well, not the most favorable.

That said, Adam, I would not hesitate to use your services. I also found the links you posted to be quite enlightening, and I think you provide a great service to authors looking for an honest review of their work. And I don't think this situation is something that you should be solely judged upon. You have some great reviews in this thread, and those speak a great deal to the services you provide. I do think this situation is a learning experience, however.

Were you justified in calling out this customer for an unfavorable review? I think you were to a degree. Despite the often stated "rule," the customer is _not_ always right, and in this case, it seemed to me, as an outside observer, that this customer was trying to get more than what he/she paid for. And if the examples you posted were any indication of the work you gave this person on their entire manuscript, I'd say what they did receive was great. (Maybe you can post up some example comments from a fake manuscript or even one of your own pieces as an excellent example of the work you offer.) And you, as the service provider, went above and beyond trying to accommodate this customer's needs by providing alternate methods to view the product, even if he/she was unable to take the intended value from the work. It seems to me to be one of those situations where, no matter what you did, the customer simply wasn't going to be happy. And that's just the way it is sometimes. All you can do is shrug, apologize, and walk away.

The only thing I would have done differently if I were in your shoes--and this is an outside critique of this situation only, not of you as an individual or of your business--is I would have handled it in private. Publicly, all that needs to be said is a quick note to the customer, posted on these forums in response to their post to thank them for their comments and to say that you will contact them directly to discuss the situation further. That sets a tone of professionalism that, I think, a lot of people could respect. And I offer this suggestion based on my own experiences. I TOTALLY understand the desire to crucify an annoying customer. Trust me, I do. I was a flight attendant for years before my current job. If those cabin doors could be opened in flight, I might have happily considered leaving a trail of overly entitled passengers all across the states. And I've been in some face-to-face confrontations that became, unfortunately, more public than I would have liked. One such instance had a customer who threatened to become violent to the point that the police were called to meet the flight--working in customer service can be like going into a war zone sometimes.

But I learned from that experience and others, I learned the lessons from my mistakes--I've made plenty of them--and I now search for ways to deescalate the situation while still maintaining a high level of professionalism with other customers. My rule of thumb is that, whenever possible, other customers shouldn't know that there is a problem. You don't want their experience to be ruined because you have a squeaky wheel elsewhere in the store (or sitting in the cabin on the plane).

And understand that I'm only trying to be helpful. Again, I want to stress that I'm not calling you or anyone else out by my response here. I hope you'll take it for what it is. And you're welcome to take this advice and toss it in the can. I respect that, and it won't change my opinion of your business or of anyone else. I still believe that what I saw of your work was a strong selling point. I even bookmarked your business page as it's something I could definitely see myself using in the future.

I wish you all the success! I really think you're on the right track!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for the shoutout, Rayven.


JL, thanks for commenting. I too worked in the customer service industry as a manager for years before this (it is the job I left to pursue self-employment full time). I can relate with sometimes wanting to throw crazy customers out of a plane!  I actually have a super laid back/calm personality, though I know it is hard to convey tone on the internet or in text. My intent on the reply wasn't for crucifixion as you stated, but to state the actual facts. This incident actually occurred over a month ago and I had not thought about it since, so it threw me off guard a bit. I even re-read the post several times before posting it to make sure it didn't sound angry and instead was just stating actual fact in place of opinion. But, as I said, things often sound different to others (especially when reading with no sign of tone/etc.). But, anyway, any damage inflicted (if any) via review or reply has been done and I accept that. At least I've still never replied to any of our book's one star reviews!  

As far as providing more examples of the work we actually do, I've taken the advice and sent out some requests to repeat customers. It was something already on the to-do list, but the repeated advice to do so here has made me bump it up a few notches. 

Thanks again!


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## TromboneAl (Mar 20, 2015)

I have about three chapters to write for my 60K word WIP. What's the current availability look like, and is it possible to reserve a spot (I'm guessing: no  ).

Also, is your editing service likely to start soon?

Thanks.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

TromboneAl said:


> I have about three chapters to write for my 60K word WIP. What's the current availability look like, and is it possible to reserve a spot (I'm guessing: no  ).
> 
> Also, is your editing service likely to start soon?
> 
> Thanks.


You can definitely reserve a spot. The wait time is different for every one of our beta readers, though. Who were you considering? ( http://frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders )

As far as editing, we are behind on this due to the increased popularity in our beta reads, formats, and website designs. As such, we will be unable to start the editing service until after the new year.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2015)

You mentioned earlier that your betas will do just about any genre, but that none specialize or particularly enjoy M/M romance.  I'm trying to line up some betas for my novel Deviations, which is a bit "different", and wondered if any of your betas would be okay with a young adult (16+) romance with two bi-male teen characters and three teens in an alternative relationship and dealing with various issues including physical/emotional abuse by parents, bullying, and mental health issues including PTSD and depression? It does have sex and occasionally semi-crude language.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Anma Natsu said:


> You mentioned earlier that your betas will do just about any genre, but that none specialize or particularly enjoy M/M romance. I'm trying to line up some betas for my novel Deviations, which is a bit "different", and wondered if any of your betas would be okay with a young adult (16+) romance with two bi-male teen characters and three teens in an alternative relationship and dealing with various issues including physical/emotional abuse by parents, bullying, and mental health issues including PTSD and depression? It does have sex and occasionally semi-crude language.


Sheila has done all our M/M betas in the past and would have no issues with these topics.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2015)

Awesome, thanks


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## TromboneAl (Mar 20, 2015)

Adam Poe said:


> You can definitely reserve a spot. The wait time is different for every one of our beta readers, though. Who were you considering? ( http://frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders )


Thanks. I haven't decided who yet.

I've gotten critiques on individual chapters on this and other books, and critiquers can be so different. So, I'd really like to see some sample critique excerpts somehow.

Concerning the terminology, this could just as well be called a developmental edit as a beta read, right?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

The images were intended to only show the beta readers comments and survey, not the author's work. Unfortunately it was not cropped efficiently (which I fixed when alerted). Even so, it showed less of the beginning of the novel than the 'look inside' or 'sample' on retailer sites. Which, I agree, as already stated, was too much.

Other than that I have nothing much to say. This thread has already been moderated regarding the issues, no reason bringing them back up here. As I said before, tone is hard to infer on the internet and what is done is done. I will leave what I posted there as the facts are still true. Also, I didn't 'trash' anyone or 'put her info online'. If anyone has more to say or questions regarding the exact incident, feel free to PM me. 

Regarding beta reads in general. If anyone has had (or has in the future) a problem with the service or quality of work, I'd appreciate the initial concerns being brought up via a reply e-mail in which I always end the beta return with "If you have any questions, concerns, or issues regarding the beta read, please let me know. If you have any additional questions for the beta reader or need clarification on something they said please send me a new e-mail and I will get back to you as soon as possible." This way not only can I work to correct the individual problem, but I can work to make the company better for future jobs and situations. If after this effort you are still not satisfied, by all means feel free to let people know in a constructive way with the facts you have so they can decide whether the service is for them or not.

Thanks again.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

TromboneAl said:


> Thanks. I haven't decided who yet.
> 
> I've gotten critiques on individual chapters on this and other books, and critiquers can be so different. So, I'd really like to see some sample critique excerpts somehow.
> 
> Concerning the terminology, this could just as well be called a developmental edit as a beta read, right?


Al, already replied to you via e-mail before I noticed this post. However I will reply for others that may have the same question - beta reading is not developmental editing, though it can definitely help in that regard. Beta reading is simply detailed feedback from an avid reader of your genre. The beta readers type down there thoughts on every aspect of your novel as they read. They are readers, not editors or writers, in hopes that it will shed more light on what the typical paying reader will like/dislike.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Thread locked for a bit while I review.

Betsy
KB Mod



reopened -- note that personal attacks will not be allowed to stand and that refusal to moderate oneself, may result in being put on post approval. -- Ann


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## phyler (Oct 10, 2015)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> note that personal attacks will not be allowed to stand


Shouldn't that long post Adam wrote about someone who didn't even post here, which included her name (I assume that's what that was) and details of their private communication, be removed then? Seems a bit strange to take down the post that called him out on it, but not the post itself.

Although, it may just need to have the personal info redacted and left for posterity, so that people know what the response to a negative critique will be.


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## TromboneAl (Mar 20, 2015)

Glad this thread got unlocked again.

I had a great experience with Adam's beta reading service (FrostBitePublishing.com). I ordered a beta read on Oct 30, and Amanda finished reading my 66K-word book on Nov 3. That's right, four days. I had to check to back to confirm that it really was that fast.

She gave me just the feedback I needed to have confidence in my work, and alerted me to some problems.

For example, there was an age discrepancy concerning one of my characters.

Also, she reported that the ending felt like a cheat (kind of _deus ex machina_). I agreed, and realized that I had left out some important stuff, and needed to stress some other things.

The beta report comes with a form in which the reader fills out some information on each chapter and answers some general questions (e.g. which was the most memorable scene, character, etc.).
*
I highly recommend this service.* I have beta readers, but this is a good adjunct to that. Hold on, let me check ... yes, "adjunct" means what I thought it meant.


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## phyler (Oct 10, 2015)

TromboneAl said:


> I highly recommend this service.


Good for you, buddy. I don't. We're both allowed to have opinions, right? That _is_ how forums work, isn't it? Reporting both positive and negative experiences?

I didn't get any of that kind of valuable feedback. It was like my reader had an open valve in their brain and put every thought down, whether or not it was relevant to my writing. There was no thoughtful analysis like it sounds you got (and you had a different reader--hint, Adam: mine wasn't done recently). I didn't find Adam to be professional or organized in his communication, and I don't find him professional here. Still think what he did to that girl in response to my post is horrifying.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

phyler said:


> Good for you, buddy. I don't. We're both allowed to have opinions, right? That _is_ how forums work, isn't it? Reporting both positive and negative experiences?


Not with comments like this. Forums like kboards are for civil discussions. But constant rhetoric like yours isn't civil and brings down the over all discussion.
We get it, you don't like his service, but you already had your say, there's no need for constant parroting. Especially bringing down somebody else's post just because you believe you had bad service.


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## phyler (Oct 10, 2015)

JalexM said:


> Not with comments like this. Forums like kboards are for civil discussions. But constant rhetoric like yours isn't civil and brings down the over all discussion.
> We get it, you don't like his service, but you already had your say, there's no need for constant parroting. Especially bringing down somebody else's post just because you believe you had bad service.


My say was removed, which is the point. Adam trashed some completely unrelated person because I left a critical comment, and I called him out on it. That was removed. Now people are going out of their way to say "no, his service is the best!" after I pointed out that he retaliated in a horrific way, and against the wrong person. That isn't "parroting", let alone "constant parroting" (not sure how you're quantifying "constant" here, btw). I also didn't bring down anyone's post. It sounds like trombone dude got a good service, and I re-stated what was removed, which was my contrasting experience. If someone hadn't read my previous post, which is now gone, they wouldn't know why exactly I didn't like the service.

Frankly, the overall discussion here could use some balance if the policy is to remove, police, or dogpile on anyone who dislikes the thing you like. If people want to come at me for dissenting, we'll keep discussing why.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

phyler said:


> My say was removed, which is the point. Adam trashed some completely unrelated person because I left a critical comment, and I called him out on it. That was removed. Now people are going out of their way to say "no, his service is the best!" after I pointed out that he retaliated in a horrific way, and against the wrong person. That isn't "parroting", let alone "constant parroting" (not sure how you're quantifying "constant" here, btw). I also didn't bring down anyone's post. It sounds like trombone dude got a good service, and I re-stated what was removed, which was my contrasting experience. If someone hadn't read my previous post, which is now gone, they wouldn't know why exactly I didn't like the service.
> 
> Frankly, the overall discussion here could use some balance if the policy is to remove, police, or dogpile on anyone who dislikes the thing you like. If people want to come at me for dissenting, we'll keep discussing why.


No it wasn't, check the last page. Your comment is still there. Many people dislike many things, but there are ways to go about it. You responding to other people who enjoyed his service in a condescending matter is not civil and doesn't keep balance. You're not the hero we need.


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## phyler (Oct 10, 2015)

JalexM said:


> No it wasn't, check the last page.


Different post, bud.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

I locked this thread while I reviewed.  I'm going to reopen it.  

Phyler, your point has been made.  Several times.  Five of your six posts to this forum and this thread are still in place for other members and lurkers to read and consider, along with Adam's responses. The post that was removed went over the line into personal attacks.  Additional posts about the same user experience are not needed in this thread.  Please move on.  Everyone, let's move on.  If you have an experience with Adam's service that you'd like to share, and haven't yet, this is the place for it. 

Betsy
KB Mod


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## phyler (Oct 10, 2015)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Folks,
> 
> I locked this thread while I reviewed. I'm going to reopen it.
> 
> ...


The real issue now imo is the post Adam made trashing that girl. That whole rant is a personal attack, and I find it offensive that you would remove my post calling him out on it (rather than remove whichever part you found objectionable), but leave that post about her up. It's a bit selective, isn't it?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Phyler,

potentially identifying information was removed from Adam's original response to you.  Feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss the moderation of this thread further.  Move on.

Betsy


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## KGorman (Feb 6, 2011)

Thought I'd give my review.

I had one of Adam's beta readers, Kyle, read my book Into the Fire prior to its re-launch about a month ago. I found the service to be quick (sent the manuscript on Sept 18 and got it back on the 25th), professional, and incredibly useful. Kyle even caught a grammar and spelling errors that had slipped in--something I do not expect beta readers to do.

In all, it was a positive experience, and I have already booked another beta read from them.


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

I've used Frostbite's beta reads twice. Both times I had a tight deadline, and Adam was able to slot me in quickly. I received exactly what was promised - feedback from a reader about what they thought of my story: what they liked, what they didn't like, plot holes, inconsistencies, and typos they noticed. The feedback was thorough and helpful. I would definitely recommend it.


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## PJ_Cherubino (Oct 23, 2015)

I just got my beta read surveys back from Frostbite today. My reader was Kyle. 
His running notes were very succinct and to the point. They were presented in brief bullet points. I could tell the read was very thorough. He grasped all the main points in the story and responded to each.

The feedback gave me a huge confidence boost to: 1. Know where I stand with the story and 2. to change the things that can push the story over the top.

Oh, and he also took the time to mark up typos! A beta reader who does that is worth his weight in dilithium crystals.

I would and I will use Frostbite's services again.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Just filled out the contact form for something a little, um, last minute.

Also, here's a friendly bump.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Phew, we've been deep in queue for months! We've even had to bring on new readers, one of which has already been officially added on the site as a full-timer!

We're *always *looking for more authors, though!


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## Drake Green (Jul 25, 2015)

I have a couple quick questions about submitting manuscripts. What format is preferred? PDF? .docx? .azw3?

Ok, another question if Adam is reading this: At the moment, how deep is the queue for beta reading a manuscript? I have a crime thriller that will should be through with editing this week, but how long until it gets in front of a beta reader with Frostbite?


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Drake,

Sent you an email yesterday! Sorry for the late reply on here ... didn't see the automated email notification for the PM until now.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

We are actually semi-caught up in a few reader queues! Get your beta reads in before they fill up for months again!   


Current start date availability

Amanda: 5/13
Marcus: Available immediately!
Lee: 5/14
Sheila: 5/30


Formatting availability
5/8


Web design availability
Full site: 5/25
Landing Page: Available immediately!


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## WriterADHay (Oct 12, 2016)

Hey, Adam!  

Just a quick question. Do your beta readers critique manuscripts from the Thriller Genre?

Amelia


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Yep! We have several readers that read thrillers. You can see the list of our current readers here: http://frostbitepublishing.com/betareaders


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## 88149 (Dec 13, 2015)

Just got a great read from Adam and company on first book in my historical trilogy. Prompt, excellent communication, helpful feedback. Five-star.


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

I have not updated this (or bumped it) in forever for several reasons. Firstly, we have been overwhelmed by the number of beta reads we've received! We are on track to pass our 600th this week! Also, I've been incredibly busy with the business itself and simply have not made my way to the forums in quite some time. Hopefully I can remedy that soon. 

Anyway, I recently re-designed our entire site to make everything more clear and concise. Feel free to check it out at http://frostbitepublishing.com. We also have a few 'apprentice' beta readers to help pick up some of the queue times.

I hope to hear from more of you soon!


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## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

We've been so busy that I've let this thread sleep for way too long. I will update the main post soon™, but suffice to say we are still doing beta reads, edits, formats, and web design every day! We are always looking for more authors.


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## writersean (Mar 2, 2019)

I found Frostbite Publishing's formatting service to be incredibly sloppy.
Back in December, I hired Adam to do the electronic and print editions for a nonfiction book and the print edition for a novel.
He sent back the print edition of the nonfiction book with no paragraph indents and missing the table of contents. When I asked him to fix these, he did so, but sent back a version with a smaller font, messing up my page count and thus my cover size. He eventually fixed this, although we had to go back and forth numerous times to fix the Smashwords edition as well as various formatting errors. Every time he fixed one problem, he'd add another mistake. It didn't help that he'd go silent for days at a time with no explanation.
The novel was even worse. Adam deleted the scene breaks in the print edition for no apparent reason (those never got replaced) and couldn't get the back matter correct, continually messing up the spacing, indents, and italics. Each section of the back matter (about the author, nonfiction books, novels) had a slightly different formatting. All Adam had to do was copy my original, but that seemed impossible for him. He'd fix the problem in one section, only to have that formatting bleed over to the other sections. This went back and forth for weeks. Finally, to make one listing fit in a single page, he deleted a line of text without telling me. When I pointed this out, Adam put it back in by deleting a line break (without asking me), and when I asked him if he had deleted any other lines of text, he didn't reply.
That was six weeks ago. Silence ever since. He also ignored my email repeating the question. When I asked for a 50% refund considering the long delays and imperfect final result, that email was also ignored.
While Frostbite Publishing's website says they do layout and formatting in 2-5 days, the novel took four weeks and the nonfiction book six weeks, and I still didn't get a satisfactory product. My release schedule got messed up twice and I had to spend an inordinate amount of time going through the books with a fine-toothed comb looking for formatting errors and missing text.


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