# An ebook that is nothing but pedophilia smut



## Guest (Jun 5, 2011)

A friend on FB approached me because she was being harrassed by an author after posting a one star review. She wanted to know what I thought so I waded through just over half of the book and also gave it one star--saying it was nothing more than a thinly-veiled highly descriptive account, "confession" of repeated rapes of a young girl.

I understand writing about child rape & abuse is not illegal, but am considering calling Amazon about this particular book.

Even more interesting, I posted a warning to readers after seeing this man pump his book on another FB page, and promptly received a scathing PM. Many of his "reviews" appear to be fake, tho that's not easy to tell. Many are 5 stars, which blows my mind. It's no _Lolita._

Should I shrug it off and move on, or should I email/call Amazon and ask them if it meets their criteria?


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

I would go on the Amazon guidelines and specifically look to see if it violates any one of them.  If it does, it would be reasonable to report it.  Amazon should have a certain level of quality on their site.

If it doesn't, I would just let your review do it's work.  Don't reply to the author.  If you get into a public internet fight with him, it will just increase his sales.


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Report it.


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## Tom Junior (Apr 4, 2011)

I'd report it. Theres a difference between writing about child abuse (from a sympathetic stand point) and publishing stories glorifying it. I hate this kind of stuff, if things are as you say, I hope they remove it!!!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Truthfully, that is how I always felt about Lolita, a novel which I was never able to finish. It turned my stomach. It can't hurt to report it, but I'm afraid I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## TWGallier (Apr 21, 2011)

Report it.  Just hearing about it disturbed me.


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## RonnellDPorter (Apr 20, 2010)

What is this book? I want to sample it to see if it's really just an account, or just a controversial novel? Because it's not exactly clear which it is, fiction or memoirs...


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

While I agree with reporting it, you only read half of it.

Remember that American Psycho only reveals itself in the last few chapters. If you hated the book, sure give it a bad review, but if you didn't actually read it all it may be unfair to report it. Might be best to get the author to justify it to Amazon or whomever instead, rather than just pull it. Last thing we want is pedo publishings, but we also don't want draconian thought police.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

swolf said:


> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall


This.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Amazon actually has content guidelines for KDP. If you think the novel violates the guidelines, which can be found here, report it.

If it doesn't violate the guidelines, then let your review speak for itself and move on.

Quotes about freedom of speech have nothing to do with this particular case. When you agree to Amazon's terms, you also agree to play by their rules.

EDIT: And as others have said, a bad review is not an excuse for harassment.


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## greenpen (May 30, 2011)

You did the best you can do; you wrote the review, gave it a 1-star rating, and I'm sure you'll now spread the word to avoid the book. That's enough.
[/quote]

A one star rating doesn't give an author the right to harass anybody though.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

_"You don't only defend free speech for things you like, otherwise it's not free. Everyone has a right to say and write what they want as long as they are no inciting violence or lying with intent to defame someone... Period. No exceptions."_

Freedom of speech does not oblige anyone to publish or sell another's work.


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## Gordon Ryan (Aug 20, 2010)

swolf said:


> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall


And here all these years I've attributed this quote to Voltaire.

Gordon Ryan


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## antares (Feb 13, 2011)

MikeAngel said:


> Should I shrug it off and move on, or should I email/call Amazon and ask them if it meets their criteria?


What does your heart tell you to do? In the end, you have to live with yourself.

Me? Were I persuaded it was unredeeming pedophilia, I would email Jeff Bezos with cc to Amazon and state my case.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

_"And for this reason, I won't shed a tear if Amazon removes such a book, but the demands to remove above are not based around a concern for the Amazon TOS..."_

Could be. But Freedom of Speech does not depend on our reasons for speaking.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2011)

RonnellDPorter said:


> What is this book? I want to sample it to see if it's really just an account, or just a controversial novel? Because it's not exactly clear which it is, fiction or memoirs...


I thought I'd posted a reply but don't see it so much have accidentally trashed it. I'm torn whether to report the book, but not torn about the content & intent of it. You might want to look at it for yourself. I couldn't stomach reading the whole second half but jumped around through it to confirm it was more of the same as the first half.

To me pedophilia is over the line, and anything that glorifies it or explains it away or presents it as titillating. This book does it in spades, in my opinion. And, while I'm as Libertarian as the next guy, I do draw the line at exploitation or destruction of children. The book is:

_Not Easily Washed Away: Memoirs of a Muslim's Daughter_, by Brian Arthur Levene.

Now here is the abusive FB personal message that caused me to block this man and report him. I have no clue about some of his rantings, and evidently he thinks my FB contact Irene Cole is me as well. There were several bad ratings on this book and several 5 stars that sounded like they were describing something entirely different.

His PM:

[edited by moderator. PM me if you have any questions, Mike. --Betsy]


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

This supposed author is calling you racist when he put out the book he did?  His book is nothing more than child porn using the current environment of islamaphobia to peddle it.


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## greenpen (May 30, 2011)

I have just done something about it. Watch out for the UK newspapers: Sun, Star, Daily mirror, and The Independent. They all have a link to the web page. Let's see whether they do anything about it.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

kyrin said:


> Amazon actually has content guidelines for KDP. If you think the novel violates the guidelines, which can be found here, report it.


From that link:



> Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with some examples of prohibited content:
> 
> *Pornography*
> 
> Pornography and hardcore material which depicts graphic sexual acts.


That's just what we need to do; start reporting fellow authors who we think have violated Amazon's guidelines.

This isn't about the first amendment. Amazon is a private business and can censor any book they choose. This is about authors wanting to shut up other authors because they disagree with what they're writing.

With children of my own, the thought of anyone harming them or any other child disgusts me. However, there are no children being harmed by this book. Just as there are no people being harmed by books that graphically depict murder and violence.


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## Philip Chen (Aug 8, 2010)

Report it. Child rape is abhorrent. Using it to sell books is .... I would be banned if I said what I wanted to say.


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## TWGallier (Apr 21, 2011)

swolf said:


> From that link:
> 
> That's just what we need to do; start reporting fellow authors who we think have violated Amazon's guidelines.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. Censorship hurts us all. So this leaves me torn. It is only a work of fiction, but any depiction of children being harmed in any way, shape, or manner disturbs me. And I don't even have children, or even want them. I'm way too old to raise children now.

It's not our job to be the PC police, either. But the thought of this book disturbs me. So I'm torn.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

Report it.  As a parent, this frightens me on a whole different level.


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## greenpen (May 30, 2011)

TWGallier said:


> I agree with you. Censorship hurts us all. So this leaves me torn. It is only a work of fiction, but any depiction of children being harmed in any way, shape, or manner disturbs me. And I don't even have children, or even want them. I'm way too old to raise children now.
> 
> It's not our job to be the PC police, either. But the thought of this book disturbs me. So I'm torn.


I find the sexual element abhorrent. I write stories where all sorts of people come to sticky ends, but there sure aint any descriptions of kids being sexually assaulted by their parents or other adults, related or otherwise. I think I am correct is saying that it is illegal to publish such material in the UK.


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

swolf said:


> With children of my own, the thought of anyone harming them or any other child disgusts me. However, there are no children being harmed by this book. Just as there are no people being harmed by books that graphically depict murder and violence.


I think I'm going to cut out all the nasty stuff in my book now. So my thriller will now be about a guy who wakes up one day, nothing happens, he goes to sleep that night, the end. 

It really depends upon how graphic the book is and what the actual message of the book is. Is the book meant to shock for a reason? That is what I would want defined before reporting the book.

Personally I find the entire topic abhorrent, but in my book research I have seen some really disturbing figures of just how common abuse is. So we can't just ban discussion of this or any other topic, lest it continue to be an issue that is ignored.


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Not to defend pornography and crazed Facebook slammers, but I followed that author to his publisher's page and read his biography. He states that the book was inspired by his wife's life, and she co-wrote it. That may color things a little differently - it may be a kind of catharsis for his wife. Or not. I haven't read the book at all, and have no plans to.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

I just emailed the link to a friend who is an anti-child porn activist. She is the woman who campaigned to have other pedophilia related material removed from Amazon -- she was recently on Anderson Cooper talking about it. I will be interested to see what she has to say about it.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

That didn't take long -- she emailed right back and said she was downloading the sample and would get back to me...


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

From reading the description it seems like it's the novelization of a true story. I think I'd let the market determine whether this one sells or sinks.


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## Jennybeanses (Jan 27, 2011)

Several of the five star reviews do look faked, but there are several things about this that disturb me more than that. The title of this thread is, "An ebook that is nothing but pedophilia smut." While I loathe pedophiles, and trust me, I do, the way you approached this feels all wrong. The main subject of your actual post seemed like it was about the author harassing you and your friend on FB on account of your bad reviews and efforts to spread the word about why this book was wrong. 

Now that all this controversy has been stirred up, the book is going to sell more just so people can see what all the fuss is about. It happened a few months ago when that weird Pedophile's guide (can't remember the name atm,) went big. The guy who wrote it wound up in the top ten because people drew so much attention to it, and before Amazon finally decided to remove it, the author made bucketfuls of cash.

I think it's sad that anyone would try to make money off the pain and suffering of an innocent, but it's even worse when all the negative press draws attention that actually helps the author in question. 

Yeah, some of the reviews look fake, and the author went too far by contacting reviewers who didn't like the book, but why the reviewers would draw more attention to the author by posting controversial opinion on public sites like FB is beyond me. People are naturally drawn toward that kind of crud, and when you start pouring so much attention into it, it's like pouring gasoline on an inferno. 

If you don't want to see this kind of book on Amazon, contact Amazon and ask them if it violates their terms. Chances are, it doesn't because 1. Lolita... and 2. It passed through their scrutinizing team which has become very strict when it comes to erotic content. It doesn't hurt to contact Amazon to express your concerns, but drawing more attention to the book by blowing it up on public forums is probably only going to help the author sell more books.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

greenpen said:


> I find the sexual element abhorrent. I write stories where all sorts of people come to sticky ends, but there sure aint any descriptions of kids being sexually assaulted by their parents or other adults, related or otherwise. I think I am correct is saying that it is illegal to publish such material in the UK.





tim290280 said:


> Personally I find the entire topic abhorrent, but in my book research I have seen some really disturbing figures of just how common abuse is. So we can't just ban discussion of this or any other topic, lest it continue to be an issue that is ignored.


I haven't read the book either, but I found some of the opinions on here very surprising. There shouldn't be child rape in books, ever? I agree with Tim - it happens in real life, every day. It seems absurd to me that we should keep it out of books and make it illegal to write about. That seems like the same thing as ignoring the problem. I'm not making any comments on this particular book since I have no idea what's inside it, but I would never immediately discard a book, simply because it describes a child's rape. What's next? Murder is disgusting and illegal, so let's ban that from books?


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## Larry Buttram (May 15, 2011)

Mike,

I haven't read the book and I don't intend to, however I have one comment which I hope is appropriate.

I remember a sermon our minister gave many years ago about some of the horrible things found in the Bible--rape, murder, incest, etc. He said there were a number of differences in how the Bible treats these issues from how they are presented today. The Bible doesn't go into graphic details; the Bible doesn't glorify sin; and the Bible shows that there are always consequences from our actions. 

In a couple of my books I deal with some tough and 'mature' topics, but I never use obscenity, never show graphic details, always show it as being evil, and always show that there's a consequence for our sins. From what you're saying it appears this author doesn't do any of these things. In any case, I applaud your concern and efforts. And you have my sympathy for the message your received from him. Thanks for caring.

Larry Buttram


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Does anyone else feel that the vagueness of Amazons's Content Guidelines is a little frightening? In the future, I may rely on Amazon money for my living, and something like this:



> What we deem offensive is probably about what you would expect. Amazon Digital Services, Inc. reserves the right to determine the appropriateness of Titles sold on our site.


doesn't give me any idea at all about what is or isn't offensive. I mean, I write YA books. My teenagers are sexually active. There aren't sex scenes, per se, but there are set ups and cutaways. Is that too offensive? It was too offensive for parents of a student at the school I teach at, who went to the school board about me, outraged.

Guess there's nothing I can do about this, however. I'm going to pretend I never saw those Content Guidelines and go along my merry way.

In regards to the original comment, I'm with others who think that fiction itself is not hurting anyone. I'm not in favor of censorship. (Of course, it seems Amazon is, and they can censor whatever they want for any reason. Their right, of course. But totally terrifying.)


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

I haven't read the sample but from reading the comments on Goodreads the impression I get is that the story is very important and relevant but that the graphic nature of the descriptions of the rapes are borderline. There are lots of books that deal with pedophilia -- Dennis Lehane's _Gone Baby Gone_ being a good example, as is Lolita -- but neither of those go into graphic, detailed descriptions of the acts.

As I've said, I haven't read it but if the descriptions are as graphic as some people indicate there is a fine line between good fiction and titillation for pedophiles.

There is a discussion in the romance forum on Amazon about descriptions of rape in romance novels. Apparently some readers get turned on by reading graphic descriptions of rape and some are repulsed by it. The question lies in where one draws the line.


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## Abigail (Apr 27, 2010)

I can't just sit on the fence here. I too have written about child rape, abuse, child trafficking. I certainly didn't write as titilation, but to educate. The amount of people that look away when they suspect abuse is going on is unreal, if they knew what does go on and how it makes a child feel then more people may stand up and stop this. I foster kids, I know it still goes on. Sorry, but I also agree that just because something is illegal like rape, murder, whatever... It doesn't mean you shouldn't write about it.


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## Jennybeanses (Jan 27, 2011)

Kathleen Valentine said:


> I haven't read the sample but from reading the comments on Goodreads the impression I get is that the story is very important and relevant but that the graphic nature of the descriptions of the rapes are borderline. There are lots of books that deal with pedophilia -- Dennis Lehane's _Gone Baby Gone_ being a good example, as is Lolita -- but neither of those go into graphic, detailed descriptions of the acts.
> 
> As I've said, I haven't read it but if the descriptions are as graphic as some people indicate there is a fine line between good fiction and titillation for pedophiles.
> 
> There is a discussion in the romance forum on Amazon about descriptions of rape in romance novels. Apparently some readers get turned on by reading graphic descriptions of rape and some are repulsed by it. The question lies in where one draws the line.


Kathleen, I agree that there's a fine line between titillation and good fiction. The impression I got from the author's website is that the book was co-written with his wife, and it's not entirely fictitious, but experiences she endured as a child, so when do you draw then line in an actual memoir? Maybe it was only titled as fiction to protect the people in the story?


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

_"so when do you draw then line in an actual memoir?"_

I think the line was drawn at #1,364,061. That's the book's ranking. It seems the system is working. Let's see how far it moves up the ranks now that it's getting lots of attention.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> Does anyone else feel that the vagueness of Amazons's Content Guidelines is a little frightening?


Perhaps. I do not doubt in the least that some of what I write might be considered "pornographic" by some readers. I think, however, that Amazon leaves the definition vague intentionally, allowing for somewhat random enforcement. In the past, they've shown themselves willing to delete titles involving incest and underage sex. They could conceivably start deleting more general erotica and romance too, but I doubt they will. It's a matter of balancing sales against complaints and bad publicity, I suspect.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Abigail said:


> I can't just sit on the fence here. I too have written about child rape, abuse, child trafficking. I certainly didn't write as titilation, but to educate. The amount of people that look away when they suspect abuse is going on is unreal, if they knew what does go on and how it makes a child feel then more people may stand up and stop this.


Abigail, I agree completely. My first career was as a therapist and I worked on some pretty ugly cases back in the days when no court wanted to hear about it. It was awful. The novel I am working on right now deals with incest and it's long-range effects. My point is there is a difference between dealing with the issues and describing the acts in prolonged, graphic detail. No one who has dealt with people dealing with the long-term effects of childhood sexual abuse wants to read the graphic details of the actual acts.


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## RebeccaKnight (May 1, 2011)

Jessica Billings said:


> I haven't read the book either, but I found some of the opinions on here very surprising. There shouldn't be child rape in books, ever? I agree with Tim - it happens in real life, every day. It seems absurd to me that we should keep it out of books and make it illegal to write about. That seems like the same thing as ignoring the problem. I'm not making any comments on this particular book since I have no idea what's inside it, but I would never immediately discard a book, simply because it describes a child's rape. What's next? Murder is disgusting and illegal, so let's ban that from books?


I'm of two minds, and this thread is helping me solidify my feelings. My stomach ties in knots at the idea of a "titillating" child rape scene in a book .

However, George R. R. Martins's A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE series has naked 13 year old girls all the way through it, having sex, and being lusted after by WAY older men. It's creepy, but it would be "historically accurate" if we're thinking of his fantasy world as a version of our Medieval times. So... where do we draw the line?

Censorship is probably the wrong way to go, but publicly hating this dude's book is a-ok!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Hating the book, if you've read it, and are hating it because of the content and not because of the author's behavior is one thing. Hating it because other people are or the author is rude, obnoxious, etc, is not so cool.


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## RebeccaKnight (May 1, 2011)

Monique said:


> Hating the book, if you've read it, and are hating it because of the content and not because of the author's behavior is one thing. Hating it because other people are or the author is rude, obnoxious, etc, is not so cool.


Just to clarify, this is what I meant. If you've read it and hate it, hopefully it will stay at the bottom of the rankings with your honest 1-star review weighing it down.

But yes, let's not all light our torches until we've read it and been disgusted, and not light them at all if we (like me) choose not to.


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

swolf said:


> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall


^^

As a parent, the fact that people only want to defend free speech when they agree with the subject matter frightens me on a whole different level.

If actual children are being raped by this book, then by all means report it to Amazon. If not, then don't.


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

T.J. Dotson said:


> I'd report it. Theres a difference between writing about child abuse (from a sympathetic stand point) and publishing stories glorifying it. I hate this kind of stuff, if things are as you say, I hope they remove it!!!


^^ That!


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## Charliegirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ultimately, it's not our choice, it's Amazons.

Amazon has already pulled books off the shelf that they found too graphic in nature. There was that "how to molest kids" book that got pulled and I stand by amazons choice to do that 100%. In fact, I e-mailed Amazon and told them that they should do it because I was already planning to self publish my book and a ton of people were about to boycott amazon. Why should some psychopaths need to write a how to book to help other scum bags score on kids destroy amazons reputation and cause them to loose so many customers? Amazon is still hurting form the backlash of that incident.

If it's really as bad as you say, report it. It's not just about "freedom of speech" guys, if a lot of these kinds of books are allowed on amazon it could destroy the company's reputation as a whole and hurt YOUR sales. Would you rather have 2,000,000 fantasy, sci-fi, comedy, romance readers flocking to the site or 2,000,000 kiddie fiddlers who have no interest in your lame, "non-baby-rapey" book.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

I read the sample, which spanned the first four chapters. With greatest respect to those who may disagree, I found nothing in these first four chapters in any way titillating or gratuitous.

This is what I found. There were three brief instances of descriptions that would have to be considered sexual. The first involved kissing, with no mention of genital sexuality. The second was a mild, non-explicit description, and the third was a brief but graphic description of genital sexuality. As far as sexual content, that was all I found. In the broader context of the book, which focussed on the young woman's endurance of psychological abuse--mostly centred on the fact that she was the first-born and brought shame to her father's extended family because she was a girl, not a boy--the brief mentions of sexual abuse were merely part of the depressing reality of this young woman's life.

I saw absolutely nothing in the sample that would cause me to believe this book is pornographic. Nothing.

This book appears to be the story of one woman's life growing up in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. She does question some of her society's values, but she seems to do this as a faithful Muslim. I saw no attacks on Islam. She questioned things like her father's ability to beat a street vendor nearly senseless with a stick--and get away with it. In fact, the street vendor, as she relates, was thrown in jail and only released after the vendor apologised profusely to the girl's mother for what the father had claimed was an insult. But the author makes it very, very clear in this passage that the abuse of the vendor had nothing to do with Islamic law, and had everything to do with her father's political connections, which she stated were against the laws of Allah.

I found absolutely nothing in the sample that denigrated Islam. I cannot imagine that any Muslim--unless she belonged to the shameful political organisations mentioned in the book--would find any of this material in any way offensive.

Now, I did find at least two formatting errors (chapters beginning in the middle of a page rather than on a new page) and one grammatical error (second person and third person references in the same sentence, "one should do this because you need to prepare"--or something like that). These errors were relatively glaring, and I would not consider any such work to be ready for publication. However, in the grand scheme of things, these remain relatively minor and forgivable errors.

_Lolita_ contains non-graphic sexual musings. _Not Easily Washed Away_, at least in this sample, contains brief and sometimes graphic sexual descriptions. To those who may wish to agitate against child pornography, I find no basis for any such action in either of these two books. My recommendation, for those opposed to gratuitous descriptions of sex involving minors, would be to start a movement against Thomas Pynchon's novel, _Gravity's Rainbow_, which contains several explicit, erotic descriptions of sex with a twelve-year-old girl. However, I know many--including myself--consider this novel to be a breathtaking, exemplary work of fiction. It would be a shame to ban this book, but if we are to judge based entirely on content some consider offensive, this book would have to be at the top of the list of those banned. Again with greatest respect to those who may believe otherwise, I would quietly oppose any such ban of Pynchon's masterpiece.

I urge everyone--especially authors--to make informed decisions based on facts, rather than making statements that may not have a basis in fact or reality. I respect the person who started this thread, since he based his comments about the book on having read half of it. Perhaps the second half of _Not Easily Washed Away_ would change his opinion, but I respect what he wrote here, because it is based on fact. Now, it seems to me entirely possible that if I paid $10 to read the remainder of the book I would come away with quite a different impression. Nevertheless, that would in no way decrease my respect for him, since again he was basing his comments on his observations of the book, which are valid and useful to read. On the other hand, I have read many subsequent comments on this thread that were made by people who, by their own admission, have not read any part of the book. I have to believe that at least some of those who posted these comments would find _Not Easily Washed Away_ to be informative and thought provoking literature that shares nothing in common with pornography.

Why contribute negative comments about something you have not read? Why not try to remain positive, give the benefit of the doubt, and most importantly, refuse to make comments about something with which you have no personal knowledge? Why defame a fellow author without justification? I find nothing pornographic or defamatory to Islam in the sample of the book I read. I see no issue with the book, but I do find issue in the manner in which some have chosen to comment.

Let's be nice to each other, guys. Let's be positive and supportive, unless we know with absolute certainty that someone is breaking the rules or poses some grave threat to society. Otherwise, let's celebrate the grand diversity available in our world. That's what authors are supposed to do, isn't it? Be nice.


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## Steve Silkin (Sep 15, 2010)

valeriec80 said:


> Does anyone else feel that the vagueness of Amazon's Content Guidelines is a little frightening? ...
> 
> What we deem offensive is probably about what you would expect. Amazon Digital Services, Inc. reserves the right to determine the appropriateness of Titles sold on our site.


No. I think that's perfect. On a case-by-case basis, the people at Amazon can decide if they want to participate in publication, distribution and retailing of any book, just like any other publisher, distributor or retailer. A detailed list of what kinds of sex, violence, incitation to racial hatred or other political and religious or anti-religious opinions are "allowed" or "not allowed" would be absurd.

Judging by your description of your books, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I don't think your books even approach the line where they would ever be questioned by anyone.

As for the book in question in this thread, I have not looked at it and won't. However, from reading the thread it appears it's advertised as a co-written memoir? By a victim? If that's the case, I would not support its suppression and would question the wisdom of anyone who would.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Thank you, Pearson.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Am I the only one that finds this to be like a lynch mob going after that author now? And if "Irene" really is the OP giving reviews of other authors with a "hidden" name on Amazon, sorry I find that a bit weird. Then after that the issue was taken to Facebook to create a mob it seems like. Not by the author of the book. 

Now I am awaiting all the ones jumping in claiming to have read the sample and giving one star reviews to this author. 

This things is really really sad to me. Most jumping right in with the pitchforks did so without the facts. All they hear is 
Pedophilia and off they go.

I don't blame that author for getting somewhat defensive for being caught in a mob like that. 

eta: As I typed Pearson Moore posted. I agree with that post.


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## RebeccaKnight (May 1, 2011)

Pearson, you are a cool dude  .  Thank you for bringing us back to logical ground.


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Very thoughtful post, Pearson. What you describe seems to fit with the author's biography, which stated that he and his wife co-wrote the book, which was about her life. There are many reasons besides pornography that someone might write about pedophilia. I believe Lolita was to bring it to our attention - and I can't tell you how it made my skin crawl! I can't imagine how it wasn't banned in the 1950s, but in a sense it was a very important work for that era, when everything unpleasant was buried in denial.

Another skin-crawling book was Slammerkin, about a 14-year-old prostitute. It was very beautifully written, as was Lolita, and I'm sure the story had a lot of truth to it.

I still have no intention of reading this book. But if the author's wife was trying to get her childhood off her chest, it could be that she was just using the book as a catharsis, and her husband wasn't quite skilled at writing beautiful prose that makes you agree to overlook the content. It may have come off as prurient instead.


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## RebeccaKnight (May 1, 2011)

Totally agree.

Two words:  Taxi Driver


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## Mike Dennis (Apr 26, 2010)

Very provocative post, David.

I would let it go with a one-star rating. If any group of individuals gets all heated up and storms the Amazon gates demanding they pull this "offensive" book, and if Amazon indeed pulls it, then they might be coming after your books next. Or mine. Once such groups taste the sweet wine of success and validation, they start looking around for other "offensive" works.

Censorship has no place in the art world, of which literature is a major component. I know, pedophilia smut doesn't really qualify as "literature", but that's your opinion. The fact is, someone wrote that book and he/she has every right to publish it. By the same token, the public has every right not to buy it, which is what generally happens with these types of books.

Every few years, people get all lathered up over serial killer novels and how the victims are always women. The underlying opinion is that something "should be done" about it. You see where you can go with this. First pedophilia books, then serial killer novels. What's next? _The Godfather_? Then what? Stephen King?

You and I have the right to be offended at this book, or at any book for that matter, but we don't have the right to silence the writer. Instead, we should all celebrate the fact that we live in a society where such material CAN be sold.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2011)

Okay, in follow up there are a couple of points I'd like to make.

First, the argument that since child rape & abuse exist in our world, it is okay to graphically depict them in writing--that argument simply rings hollow to me. 

Second, unlike Lolita and other such books, this book deals repeatedly with graphic rape of a young girl--and not all of these are in the sample. If you wish to read the entire book, then you may judge it more clearly. That being said, anyone who has not read the book is entitled to express an opinion about the subject matter, about censorship, about Amazon's policies, etc. The fact that my stomach could not stand to continue reading beyond the halfway point, and that I had to spot check the rest of the book later, convinces me that I find it abhorrent. 

PS - Irene Cole is on FB; I am not Irene Cole and she is not me. I have never met Irene Cole nor have I met Mr. Levene. 

Third, there was no "mob" except one that fell on my head when I posted after the ad for the book last week, that readers should be warned of graphic child rape. 

Fourth, I gave the work one star based on what I felt was not only a surplus of graphicness aimed purely at titillation, but also a poorly written work. As a college writing instructor for a few years, I've had to evaluate literally hundreds of writing pieces, so I've had a bit of practice at this.

Fifth, the idea that this was the writer's wife's "catharsis" should not even be an issue--if she wanted catharsis she could have written it and put it in a drawer somewhere. 

Now I understand writers like Swolf who write graphic sex scenes being uneasy about censorship (I like his stuff, btw), but this is about glorifying or presenting with titillating detail and description of several sexual acts of sodomy and rape of a child. And I draw the line at children, as we all should. The idea that there must be some higher purpose in a work like this is rubbish. The purpose works to the enjoyment of pedophiles, who don't get my sympathy.

I don't care if objecting results in a short term gain of book sales for Mr. Levene. NOT objecting would result in long term continued destruction of some children--and it's not a reach to think some pervert will read this book and try to act these details out. 

I realize the law in the UK differ from ours in the US. I believe that shows how torturous the line can be drawn. If the US Supreme court cannot define pornography, but knows it when it sees it, I don't expect Amazon or anyone else to. One factor makes this issue much more identifiable--the age of the victim. 

One other word to those of a liberal mindset--there IS evil in the world and it's fine to write about evil--without that element much fiction could not exist. But glorifying it or presenting it as some cultural norm that the girl might eventually "enjoy" is unredeeming.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2011)

Mike Dennis said:


> Very provocative post, David.
> 
> I would let it go with a one-star rating. If any group of individuals gets all heated up and storms the Amazon gates demanding they pull this "offensive" book, and if Amazon indeed pulls it, then they might be coming after your books next. Or mine. Once such groups taste the sweet wine of success and validation, they start looking around for other "offensive" works.
> 
> ...


You make your points well. I do feel, however, that I have a responsibility to stand up against evil, whether presented as a "novel" or a "memoir" (which is it?) or a gun in my face. I celebrate a society where children are protected, and those who want to hurt them are punished and/or removed. I celebrate a society wise enough to know the difference between books on serial killers and ones that depict and thereby glorify child rape. Censorship has its limits as does freedom of speech. Just as you are not allowed to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater if there is no threat, you should not be allowed to publish which aim evil at children. This to me is not a slippery slope but a firm, unshakable position of morality.

_"Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 
Woe unto the world because of offenses!" _ - Matthew 18: 4-7 KJV


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## greenpen (May 30, 2011)

It always seems to be the case that the person being metaphorically torn to pieces is seldom there to state their case. Perhaps somebody should invite him here? Just a thought. Or could it be that his position is indefensible?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks--

I've just read through this thread.  I think it's a fair discussion, though at this point, it seems to be more about the book (thus Book Corner material) than MikeAngel's original question, which to me was more Cafe material.  At this point, however, I'm inclined to leave it here in the Cafe.

When I first started reading, I, too, was a little concerned about a lynch mob forming, but I think instead a frank and open discussion is going on, and as such, perfectly suitable to our forum as long as it stays as civil as it has been.  There was good advice given to Mike on how to handle his original issues.  I did remove the private message, as that falls under the "What Happens Outside KindleBoards" rule--it is just between Mike and the other person on another forum.  It's perfectly appropriate, however, to discuss the book itself by author and title, just as we would any other book here that we like or don't like.

Just my two cents worth...

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

MikeAngel said:


> One other word to those of a liberal mindset--there IS evil in the world and it's fine to write about evil--without that element much fiction could not exist. But glorifying it or presenting it as some cultural norm that the girl might eventually "enjoy" is unredeeming.


Don't go there, Mike. Don't make it an insult to liberals or an issue of political leanings. Book burning and suppression are also evil, as we've tried to explain to you.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

And if this thread goes political, I'll have to lock it.

Betsy


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

MikeAngel said:


> And I draw the line at children, as we all should.


I disagree completely. I think the line should be drawn at real life. So as long as a book is not actually harming anyone in real life, thought crimes hurt no one.


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## Susan Umpleby (Dec 20, 2008)

I just finished reading the sample for this book and Pearson is correct. While not very well written from a literary standpoint, there is nothing pornographic about it. It isn't a novel at all. It is a memoir co-written by Brian Levene. It describes the horrendous things her father did to her. We are horrified by such things, but shouldn't try to sweep it under the rug when a sufferer tells about it.

Granted it is much better written, but would you call for the removal of Dave Pelzer's _A Child Called It_? It is graphic in its details of the abuse he suffered at his mother's hands. Does giving those details make it nothing but smut? If he had suffered sexual abuse in addition to the rest would telling about it just as graphically have been a Bad Thing?


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## Rex Jameson (Mar 8, 2011)

Authors censoring the true story of another guy's wife? 

Are you freaking kidding me?

P.S. I would seriously email the child activists you guys talked to and relate the story behind the story before they actively lobby to censor it.

"Think of the children." If it's based on a true story, then it is thinking of the children. If this is happening in any part of our society, hiding it just helps it continue because no one believes this thing happens. It's like censoring all books on Hitler, because the thought of someone committing genocide is so abhorrent to you that you can't think anyone would possibly try to get into the murderer's head to understand how they work and most importantly, some of the signs that might indicate how to recognize genocide is taking place when no television camera will dare venture into the area.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2011)

I have had my say here. I thank you for yours and for the understanding Quilt-lady comments. I don't believe in condoning bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior, nor do I think the sample is sufficient to justify a judgment. I'm not encouraging you to buy the book, but not easily washed away is aptly named. 

I also disagree that censorship is always bad, just as free speech should always be unlimited. Civilized folks need some limits to speech as well as to what is publishable; we need to protect the most vulnerable among us or we are not civilized. Such books merely incite those who would see children as fair game for their depravity.


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## Rex Jameson (Mar 8, 2011)

I can assure you that children were abused before this story came out, and it will unfortunately continue far into the future. I have several friends that were sexually abused growing up without the need for Lolita or any other literature to aid their tormentors. Some of these friends are men now (one of them is a practicing psychiatrist because of his years of torture and wanting to help others), but the majority of them are women. The worst thing that probably ever happened to them was the years it continued where no one noticed and it became something that they had to tolerate and maybe even embrace just to survive.

We can sweep such things under the rug as a society if you want. However, censorship for the sake of hiding true stories under a rug is an errant justification for suppressing free speech, and you can dress it up with a wig and a bonnet, but it's still just suppressing a true story about a woman that grew to tolerate and embrace her torture to survive a torturous adolescence (from what I understand from everyone's comments). Since I have heard very, very detailed first-hand accounts from friends and loved ones that needed to share their experience, I have no intention of ever reading this book, but I would still fight for any victim to have the right to tell their story - no matter how uncomfortable it makes readers. Even if it weren't a true story, since I literally know more than a half dozen people that have gone through this thing with uncles, stepfathers, babysitters, and various other trusted adults, I would never condone suppressing the story because this behavior is not as much of an outlier in our society as we'd like to think.

For those parents in this thread that think a book like this is the real threat to your kids, the only real threat is not opening dialog to your kids to make sure that this kind of thing is not happening. These predators thrive on parents believing nothing like this would ever happen to their kids, and from the true stories I've heard, they most often open up with lies about how their parents would disown them if they spoke out against them (or maybe that they would hurt their parents with such stories) after time spent grooming the kid for the relationship. The worst thing you can do, as a parent, is NOT discuss this with your kids and make sure they understand expressing feelings about inappropriate touching is appreciated by you, as a parent. Because kids are often scared to death of disappointing or hurting their parents and will push that stuff deep down inside.


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Evil is the forcing of one's will upon another, causing the recipient to suffer harm from it. This includes rape, murder, slavery, brainwashing... Think of any situation where a individual is duped or enslaved or forced into deprivation by someone else, and you have evil. The word "involuntary" is key. There are various degrees, but you can't censor all evil, and you can't cherry pick the evil things you personally dislike the most.

Censorship does not save people from harm, it rather imposes ignorance upon them, and ignorance is not a good thing, even for people who like it and revel in it. When you support censorship, you are determining the entirety of what you and I have access to, and therefore can know and understand. You don't get the privilege of knowing something I can't know, if you vote for ignorance, because you get sucked into it as well. You may like it there, but others may not. When you foist ignorance on them, they feel involuntarily suppressed.

You also don't get to object when someone else censors something you don't feel is "evil." Many people think that guns are evil. Or eating animals is evil. Or drilling for oil is evil. If they have the same say that you demand with book censorship, you have to live with what they decide as well, and like it, because the world is not yours to rule.

Censorship is a very effective ploy in restrictive societies. Think of political prisoners in Siberia and China - the quelling of voices, and the punishment of dissidents who say and write things the Thought Police don't like. 

It isn't even effective. A university professor once conducted an experiment with his literature class, by handing them a list of banned books. They were advised they could choose any book EXCEPT for books on that list to read and write a report on for class. The result? Every student read every book on the Banned Books list. That was kind of the professor's intent, and they all fell right into his trap.

Nobody here is saying that child rape is a good thing. But "saving" people from the ghastly skin-crawling effect of reading about it is a disservice to the children who must endure it because you willingly won't look, and won't allow anyone else to look either. If you won't look, you won't know. If you don't know, you won't help. 

If creeps sneak through, that's the risk we take for living in a free society. It beats the alternative.


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

You gave a lot of publicity to something that should have been ignored.


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Bob Mayer said:


> You gave a lot of publicity to something that should have been ignored.


Seriously. This thread has received a ton of hits.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

A thread like this makes me thankful I'm not a moderator.


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

MikeAngel said:


> I also disagree that censorship is always bad, just as free speech should always be unlimited. Civilized folks need some limits to speech as well as to what is publishable; we need to protect the most vulnerable among us or we are not civilized. Such books merely incite those who would see children as fair game for their depravity.


Exactly! I believe in freedom of speech...but I also believe in exercising such freedoms with responsibility.


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

xandy3 said:


> Exactly! I believe in freedom of speech...but I also believe in exercising such freedoms with responsibility.


But I get to define "responsibility," whether you agree with me or not. And I get to enforce it. Fair enough?


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

MikeAngel said:


> Fifth, the idea that this was the writer's wife's "catharsis" should not even be an issue--if she wanted catharsis she could have written it and put it in a drawer somewhere.


Jaycee Dugard has a memoir coming out next month called "A Stolen Life," written by a ghostwriter. Ms. Dugard, you will recall, was kidnapped at age 11 and sexually abused for the next 18 years. She bore two children who were fathered by one of her abductors. Her lengthy captivity involves almost unimaginable instances of pedophilia and other forms of child abuse. Perhaps part of the reason she is sharing her story is that she hopes it will prove cathartic. Should she have just written a journal and shoved it in a drawer? Should Amazon refuse to sell "A Stolen Life"?


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## Steve Silkin (Sep 15, 2010)

Mike McIntyre said:


> Jaycee Dugard has a memoir coming out next month called "A Stolen Life," written by a ghostwriter. Ms. Dugard, you will recall, was kidnapped at age 11 and sexually abused for the next 18 years. She bore two children who were fathered by one of her abductors. Her lengthy captivity involves almost unimaginable instances of pedophilia and other forms of child abuse. Perhaps part of the reason she is sharing her story is that she hopes it will prove cathartic. Should she have just written a journal and shoved it in a drawer? Should Amazon refuse to sell "A Stolen Life"?


The argument over the transcript of her grand jury testimony is actually an interesting case study in this discussion. Attorneys for newspapers argued that it should be made public - and one of the arguments they used was that she was publishing the memoir. The judge disagreed, and in fact rather vehemently, and only allowed release of a partial/redacted transcript.


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

B. Justin Shier said:


> A thread like this makes me thankful I'm not a moderator.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

xandy3 said:


> Yeah, why is this thread not locked yet?


Yeah, let's censor a thread about censorship.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the civil discussion in this thread. We moderators are of course watching it. Not to censor it, but because - in our experience - threads that get into a  "freedom of speech" theme often deteriorate in the same way that happens to threads about DRM, politics, religion, and computer operating systems. In the end, everybody gets riled up and no one changes anyone else's mind about it.


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

Harvey said:


> In the end, everybody gets riled up and no one changes anyone else's mind about it.


Well said, Harvey.

Actually the last sentence that I quoted applies to about %50 of the threads on these boards. LOL 

Not to offend anyone, that's just IMO.


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## Brian Arthur Levene (Feb 19, 2011)

I AM THE CO-AUTHOR of the book Not Easily Washed Away: Memoirs of a Muslim's Daughter. Everyone that has come across this man has referred to him as a nuisance, except for his three friends who he admits to being "buddies" with that's been stalking the Amazon pages. Therefore, I will ignore this garbage but what I WILL NOT IGNORE is someone referring to myself and my wife as writing "Kiddie Porn, Anti-Islamic sentiments, and Pornography," OR TRYING TO BAN THIS BOOK and you and your friends will see that in the upcoming weeks Mr.Fears. But I don't understand how a person who claims he was a professor in a university can make these claims about the book I wrote with my wife. I will let the book speak for itself. I have slashed the price to half for 48 hours of every version of the book so that people can see the contents and not just the excerpt and decide what is really going on here. Afterwards, you are welcome to post any negative reviews or comments. Really, this is not about my book but more about me standing up to Fake Book Editors, Online Stalkers, Scammers, Jealous authors, and people who cant sell books and everyone will see that soon enough.


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## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

Well, geez, they say there's no bad publicity.  So, it sure seems like everyone is now talking about this book.  Let's see if sales spike while the controversy rages.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

thread locked while moderators discuss. . . .

/ Update from Harvey: We are keeping the various threads on this topic locked.


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