# What Does it Take to Get Picked Up by Amazon's 47North?



## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

Or another one of their imprints? I have no interest in selling my work to a tradpub house, but Amazon is a whole other animal from all that I've read. Since I'm already selling almost exclusively with Amazon anyway, it seems like the best of both worlds to get signed by them and have them pimp my books to their millions of eyeballs per hour. I know there are a few here who have already signed up with one of Amazon's imprints in the past, so if they could chime in with how they got onboard -- whether approached or through submissions -- I'd love to hear it. Did you have a bestseller if you were approached? How big of a bestseller was it? Did you have an agent at the time? How did it work? No need to discuss contract terms -- unless you feel like PM'ing me and doing so, I would love to hear it .  

TIA


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

jackcrows said:


> Or another one of their imprints? I have no interest in selling my work to a tradpub house, but Amazon is a whole other animal from all that I've read. Since I'm already selling almost exclusively with Amazon anyway, it seems like the best of both worlds to get signed by them and have them pimp my books to their millions of eyeballs per hour. I know there are a few here who have already signed up with one of Amazon's imprints in the past, so if they could chime in with how they got onboard -- whether approached or through submissions -- I'd love to hear it. Did you have a bestseller if you were approached? How big of a bestseller was it? Did you have an agent at the time? How did it work? No need to discuss contract terms -- unless you feel like PM'ing me and doing so, I would love to hear it .
> 
> TIA


I just got approached (by Montlake) in December. I'm talking to them now. I don't know if others have submitted to them cold, or what. It seems like they cherry-pick among authors who sell well. (To make it clear, they didn't say, "We WILL publish you." They said, "we'd like you to submit your next series to us, if you're interested.")

At the time, I said I wasn't sure, but now I'm interested, because boy, do they push their authors! And I could still keep my own series up--and I think the increased visibility I'd get through them would be great for my own books, too. Plus, she told me they do both developmental editing and copy editing, which I'd really like. I feel like a good editor might help me take my writing to the next level.

Interestingly, they only approached me after I had my second book of my second series out, and they approached me about doing another series more like that--not the books that got me known in the first place. She basically said that they were interested because I'd shown I wasn't a one-trick pony, that it wasn't just the novelty New Zealand factor. Which is interesting to me, because I was very nervous about writing a different type of book, and if I'd just been thinking about selling, I would never have done that. But all the good stuff that's happened with Amazon has happened because I took that risk and did that second series.

Your question about sales stats: I'd been selling really well for a full year before they approached me.

Hope that helps. I'm actually quite excited about the idea of going the hybrid route with them and hope it works out. Best of luck to you with it.


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## RichardWolanski (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm curious about that too, I know one of my favorite authors Christian Cantrell is on 47North.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> I just got approached (by Montlake) in December. I'm talking to them now. I don't know if others have submitted to them cold, or what. It seems like they cherry-pick among authors who sell well. (To make it clear, they didn't say, "We WILL publish you." They said, "we'd like you to submit your next series to us, if you're interested.")
> 
> At the time, I said I wasn't sure, but now I'm interested, because boy, do they push their authors! And I could still keep my own series up--and I think the increased visibility I'd get through them would be great for my own books, too. Plus, she told me they do both developmental editing and copy editing, which I'd really like. I feel like a good editor might help me take my writing to the next level.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, Rosalind. That's what I seem to be hearing. They take your bestselling series into consideration in terms of approaching you, but they prefer to get a new series instead.

Good luck with Montlake if you do sign up!


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

Amazon's imprints work the same way most trade publishing houses do...meaning they contact you or you submit to them via an agent. Or, at least, that's my understanding. I believe they have an unsolicited MS policy and yep, they do :http://www.apub.com/contact/submissions

So, if this something you're interested in pursuing and Amazon *hasn't contact you*, your best bet is to start querying agents to submit on your behalf. But, with that said, I will warn you: Agents aren't looking to submit to one house only, they are looking to get your the best deal and help mold your career. Agents invest (well, good agents invest) a lot in a writers career ... time, attention, edits, conversation, hand holding (basically, whatever the client requires) ... they don't want to be limited to one submission platform and one set of eyes because if that doesn't go well, they've invested in someone and something with zero return. So, if you don't want to be trade published elsewhere, and your firm on that, then you may want to rethink the whole idea together (not trying to be a Debbie-downer or anything, just honest).


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

Pity Amazon doesn't have a children's  imprint.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> I just got approached (by Montlake) in December. I'm talking to them now. I don't know if others have submitted to them cold, or what. It seems like they cherry-pick among authors who sell well. (To make it clear, they didn't say, "We WILL publish you." They said, "we'd like you to submit your next series to us, if you're interested.")
> 
> At the time, I said I wasn't sure, but now I'm interested, because boy, do they push their authors! And I could still keep my own series up--and I think the increased visibility I'd get through them would be great for my own books, too. Plus, she told me they do both developmental editing and copy editing, which I'd really like. I feel like a good editor might help me take my writing to the next level.
> 
> ...


That's cool. Where did they contact you? On your site? Here?


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> That's cool. Where did they contact you? On your site? Here?


They emailed me. Because Amazon knows where you live! And then we talked on the phone. It was pretty awesome.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

AshMP said:


> Amazon's imprints work the same way most trade publishing houses do...meaning they contact you or you submit to them via an agent. Or, at least, that's my understanding. I believe they have an unsolicited MS policy and yep, they do :http://www.apub.com/contact/submissions
> 
> So, if this something you're interested in pursuing and Amazon *hasn't contact you*, your best bet is to start querying agents to submit on your behalf. But, with that said, I will warn you: Agents aren't looking to submit to one house only, they are looking to get your the best deal and help mold your career. Agents invest (well, good agents invest) a lot in a writers career ... time, attention, edits, conversation, hand holding (basically, whatever the client requires) ... they don't want to be limited to one submission platform and one set of eyes because if that doesn't go well, they've invested in someone and something with zero return. So, if you don't want to be trade published elsewhere, and your firm on that, then you may want to rethink the whole idea together (not trying to be a Debbie-downer or anything, just honest).


I know all about agents and tradpub houses, thanks. Let's not derail this Amazon Imprint thread with the Evils of TradPub. We all know what they are. Thank you.


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## AshMP (Dec 30, 2009)

jackcrows said:


> I know all about agents and tradpub houses, thanks. Let's not derail this Amazon Imprint thread with the Evils of TradPub. We all know what they are. Thank you.


It wasn't my intention to derail any thread. I don't think trade publishing evil -- case in point, I have a lit agent and am out on submissions. I was just sharing with you what I know be to true.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

beccaprice said:


> Pity Amazon doesn't have a children's imprint.


Give them time, I'm sure they'll have one eventually.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

AshMP said:


> It wasn't my intention to derail any thread. I don't think trade publishing evil -- case in point, I have a lit agent and am out on submissions. I was just sharing with you what I know be to true.


No worries. Thanks for the information. From what I hear, Amazon's imprints are light years better than anything tradpub could ever offer.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Most of the time it appears 47North (and the other imprints) go out hunting for you. That's mostly what happened with me (which I had to initially turn down due to legal horror agent reasons, eventually approached them again later when signed with legitimate agent). I know of vague rumors and hearsay of what they look for, if that helps: authors with a steadily growing list of books, significant sales, overall good reviews, a strong carry-over from early books to later if it's a series, and the ability to consistently sell (i.e. you're not bouncing from 150k ranking to 1k and then back due to Bookbub, but instead showing the ability to hang around over months of time).

And I'm sure you have to at least be a competent writer. Maybe. I mean, they signed me...

As for the maybe maybe not OT bit: currently working with both Orbit (trade pub) and 47North (Amazon), I'd so far say I haven't experienced drastic differences between one or the other, other than superior digital sales with 47North. And in that regard, well...duh. But of course paper sales for Orbit wallop 47North. Again...duh.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish said:


> Most of the time it appears 47North (and the other imprints) go out hunting for you. That's mostly what happened with me (which I had to initially turn down due to legal horror agent reasons, eventually approached them again later when signed with legitimate agent). I know of vague rumors and hearsay of what they look for, if that helps: authors with a steadily growing list of books, significant sales, overall good reviews, a strong carry-over from early books to later if it's a series, and the ability to consistently sell (i.e. you're not bouncing from 150k ranking to 1k and then back due to Bookbub, but instead showing the ability to hang around over months of time).
> 
> And I'm sure you have to at least be a competent writer. Maybe. I mean, they signed me...
> 
> As for the maybe maybe not OT bit: currently working with both Orbit (trade pub) and 47North (Amazon), I'd so far say I haven't experienced drastic differences between one or the other, other than superior digital sales with 47North. And in that regard, well...duh. But of course paper sales for Orbit wallop 47North. Again...duh.


That's what I hear. They want people who have been around, who sell, and who has enough of what they perceived a fanbase to launch a new series with. Did they ask for a new series from you as well?


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

jackcrows said:


> That's what I hear. They want people who have been around, who sell, and who has enough of what they perceived a fanbase to launch a new series with. Did they ask for a new series from you as well?


Aye, they were more interested in a new series over an already published series...which is a switch. When they'd first contacted me about six months prior, they wanted to buy something already on sale. However, from keeping an eye on them it does seem they're more and more interested in new works and less in the ones already self-pubbed.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish said:


> Most of the time it appears 47North (and the other imprints) go out hunting for you. That's mostly what happened with me (which I had to initially turn down due to legal horror agent reasons, eventually approached them again later when signed with legitimate agent). I know of vague rumors and hearsay of what they look for, if that helps: authors with a steadily growing list of books, significant sales, overall good reviews, a strong carry-over from early books to later if it's a series, and the ability to consistently sell (i.e. you're not bouncing from 150k ranking to 1k and then back due to Bookbub, but instead showing the ability to hang around over months of time).
> 
> And I'm sure you have to at least be a competent writer. Maybe. I mean, they signed me...
> 
> As for the maybe maybe not OT bit: currently working with both Orbit (trade pub) and 47North (Amazon), I'd so far say I haven't experienced drastic differences between one or the other, other than superior digital sales with 47North. And in that regard, well...duh. But of course paper sales for Orbit wallop 47North. Again...duh.


David, do you do anything on your own too? Or is it all split between Orbit and 47?


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

beccaprice said:


> Pity Amazon doesn't have a children's imprint.


Your wish has been granted!

http://www.apub.com/imprint-detail?imprint=11


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

KayBratt said:


> Your wish has been granted!
> 
> http://www.apub.com/imprint-detail?imprint=11


Kay, I almost PM'd you recently to ask about Montlake. Do you like working with them? (PM me back if that seems better, and if you wouldn't mind sharing.)

Your covers are gorgeous, by the way.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

KayBratt said:


> Your wish has been granted!
> 
> http://www.apub.com/imprint-detail?imprint=11


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> Kay, I almost PM'd you recently to ask about Montlake. Do you like working with them? (PM me back if that seems better, and if you wouldn't mind sharing.)
> 
> Your covers are gorgeous, by the way.


Thanks, Rosalind, for the compliment. I love my covers too. In regards to Amazon, I actually have 5 books with three imprints. AmazonEncore, Amazon Publishing, and now my series with Lake Union. After they picked up my first (already self-published) book, Silent Tears, I wrote a novel and they declined it. Then I wrote another and it was picked up. Then the Scavenger's Daughters series was picked up. _So lesson there is just because you are already an Amazon imprint author, don't think they'll resign you automatically. You have to keep writing better books!_ They really took a chance on me because I write in such a narrow niche. And I LOVE working with Amazon. Biggest perk for me? Because of working with a developmental editor, I believe my writing has gotten a lot stronger. And a DE doesn't 'change' your work. They show you the weak areas and advise you to dig deeper to change it. All that digging has helped me become a better writer. As for advertising, they do push their books a good bit, I'd say. The pushes are more spread apart now that there are so many Amazon pubbed authors, but I am thankful for every single marketing strategy they implement. (Silent Tears was at #48 overall today because of yesterday's push!) Also, my team is a dream to work with and though they've gotten much busier the bigger they get, I can still expect an answer from them in a decent amount of time about any concerns. I truly feel like my acquisitions editor has my best interest at heart, and he was instrumental in the creation of my series and even coming up with an awesome series name. He really cares and it feels like it's more than sales, it's that he likes to assist his authors in realizing their dreams. Sounds cheesy, but it's true. I don't know if all the imprint editors are that way, but mine rocks.

I can also say this, getting an Amazon imprint contract is much harder than it used to be and I agree that from what I've seen, they are mostly picking up never-before-published material for launching. Also, about agents. I approached my agent *after* Amazon approached me and she was fine with agenting me on just my Amazon deal. That could be because I already had an offer in hand, or it could be because she already had an author with them and knew they were a solid deal.

The only downer I can think of to working with Amazon Publishing is that now that so many are signing on, the pub dates are getting harder to snag and scheduled out further than we'd all like. It would be the same with any trade publisher, but when compared to the instant gratification of self publishing at our disposal, it makes waiting for your pub dates akin to mental torture. (It also makes us look like petulant brats for being so impatient, but there you have it) 

Overall, at this point in time I still think an author is getting an amazing gift to be signed with Amazon Publishing.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

KayBratt said:


> Thanks, Rosalind, for the compliment. I love my covers too. In regards to Amazon, I actually have 5 books with three imprints. AmazonEncore, Amazon Publishing, and now my series with Lake Union. After they picked up my first (already self-published) book, Silent Tears, I wrote a novel and they declined it. Then I wrote another and it was picked up. Then the Scavenger's Daughters series was picked up. _So lesson there is just because you are already an Amazon imprint author, don't think they'll resign you automatically. You have to keep writing better books!_ They really took a chance on me because I write in such a narrow niche. And I LOVE working with Amazon. Biggest perk for me? Because of working with a developmental editor, I believe my writing has gotten a lot stronger. And a DE doesn't 'change' your work. They show you the weak areas and advise you to dig deeper to change it. All that digging has helped me become a better writer. As for advertising, they do push their books a good bit, I'd say. The pushes are more spread apart now that there are so many Amazon pubbed authors, but I am thankful for every single marketing strategy they implement. (Silent Tears was at #48 overall today because of yesterday's push!) Also, my team is a dream to work with and though they've gotten much busier the bigger they get, I can still expect an answer from them in a decent amount of time about any concerns. I truly feel like my acquisitions editor has my best interest at heart, and he was instrumental in the creation of my series and even coming up with an awesome series name. He really cares and it feels like it's more than sales, it's that he likes to assist his authors in realizing their dreams. Sounds cheesy, but it's true. I don't know if all the imprint editors are that way, but mine rocks.
> 
> I can also say this, getting an Amazon imprint contract is much harder than it used to be and I agree that from what I've seen, they are mostly picking up never-before-published material for launching. Also, about agents. I approached my agent *after* Amazon approached me and she was fine with agenting me on just my Amazon deal. That could be because I already had an offer in hand, or it could be because she already had an author with them and knew they were a solid deal.
> 
> ...


Thank you SO MUCH for the detailed response. When the acquisitions editor said "developmental editor" to me, that was when my ears really pricked up. I feel like I've learned so much over the past couple years, and that I'm so much better than I was then, but I'd love to have somebody help me with that, somebody who could pinpoint the weak spots as you say. So, yes, it's the marketing that appeals to me, but it's also the editing.

I sure appreciate your taking the time to answer. Thanks again.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Thank you SO MUCH for the detailed response. When the acquisitions editor said "developmental editor" to me, that was when my ears really pricked up. I feel like I've learned so much over the past couple years, and that I'm so much better than I was then, but I'd love to have somebody help me with that, somebody who could pinpoint the weak spots as you say. So, yes, it's the marketing that appeals to me, but it's also the editing.
> 
> I sure appreciate your taking the time to answer. Thanks again.


Seconded. Thank you for your great response, Kay.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I don't suppose anyone already with Amazon would mention my name to Two Lions, their Children's imprint. I just had a great free run through Select, and I have this fantastic story that hasn't been published yet...


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

PamelaKelley said:


> David, do you do anything on your own too? Or is it all split between Orbit and 47?


Ten books self-pubbed, six books with Orbit, three with 47North.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm afraid I'm no help because they approached me.  It was one of those a lightning bolts out of the sky moments and the only wisdom I can share is 'always be prepared in case opportunity knocks'.  But I'm hearing from most of the recent 47North authors that they had agents who submitted for them.  The nice thing is that these authors have varied publishing histories.  Some are huge sellers, some are coming out with a very first book.  What I appreciate most about 47North is that when they pick up new talent, quality trumps quantity.  They are a wonderful publisher to work with and am I very proud to be signed with them.


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish said:


> Ten books self-pubbed, six books with Orbit, three with 47North.


It's so great to see you've been able to move on from that old bad situation to your much better new one, David.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

jnfr said:


> It's so great to see you've been able to move on from that old bad situation to your much better new one, David.


No kidding.


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## scribblr (Aug 20, 2010)

jackcrows said:


> Did you have a bestseller if you were approached? How big of a bestseller was it? Did you have an agent at the time? How did it work? No need to discuss contract terms -- unless you feel like PM'ing me and doing so, I would love to hear it .
> 
> TIA


As with the many of the other respondents here, I was approached by 47North. They contacted me by email to set up a conference call. I didn't then, and still don't, have an agent. I've had a number of best selling books in the sci-fi genre on Amazon and have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When you have a big pie, everyone wants a slice. The trouble with publishers is that they want most of the pie. I declined 47North's offer for several reasons. First and foremost, the contract they offered licensed my books to them for the term of copyright. That means 70 years beyond my death. Perhaps they've changed that now, but back in 2012, they would have owned my books forever. Second, when you consider that Amazon has about 60% of the eBook market, the royalty rate they were offering was no better than that offered by trad publishers, which I have also turned down. Third, Barnes and Noble will probably never sell the books offered by an Amazon imprint in their store, unless it's on a case by case basis arranged through agreement between the store manager and an author. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in every case I've heard of where a B&N store has an Amazon imprint in stock, that was the case, and it was limited to one store or a small area. Fourth, Amazon imprint eBooks will never be available in any other eBook store. I make enough from my sales through stores other than Amazon to enjoy a comfortable living. Would Amazon, with their marketing capability on their own website, sell enough copies to make up for that? Yeah, that's probably a given, but I already have that extra income, so I would just be shifting the royalties, and I would be getting a fraction of the Net I get from those other stores.

The folks at 47North were very pleasant to talk with and negotiate with, but at the end of the day, the terms of the deal just weren't right for me. We all have to decide what we want out of Indie publishing, and if 47North is your goal, go for it.

Good luck. Keep writing and keep working to improve your skills. When your sales and ratings begin to reflect success, 47North will be in touch.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> I just got approached (by Montlake) in December. I'm talking to them now. I don't know if others have submitted to them cold, or what. It seems like they cherry-pick among authors who sell well. (To make it clear, they didn't say, "We WILL publish you." They said, "we'd like you to submit your next series to us, if you're interested.")
> 
> At the time, I said I wasn't sure, but now I'm interested, because boy, do they push their authors! And I could still keep my own series up--and I think the increased visibility I'd get through them would be great for my own books, too. Plus, she told me they do both developmental editing and copy editing, which I'd really like. I feel like a good editor might help me take my writing to the next level.
> 
> ...


Congrats, Rosalind! I'm having so much fun reading about everyone's progresses and successes!!!


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

scribblr said:


> As with the many of the other respondents here, I was approached by 47North. They contacted me by email to set up a conference call. I didn't then, and still don't, have an agent. I've had a number of best selling books in the sci-fi genre on Amazon and have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When you have a big pie, everyone wants a slice. The trouble with publishers is that they want most of the pie. I declined 47North's offer for several reasons. First and foremost, the contract they offered licensed my books to them for the term of copyright. That means 70 years beyond my death. Perhaps they've changed that now, but back in 2012, they would have owned my books forever. Second, when you consider that Amazon has about 60% of the eBook market, the royalty rate they were offering was no better than that offered by trad publishers, which I have also turned down. Third, Barnes and Noble will probably never sell the books offered by an Amazon imprint in their store, unless it's on a case by case basis arranged through agreement between the store manager and an author. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in every case I've heard of where a B&N store has an Amazon imprint in stock, that was the case, and it was limited to one store or a small area. Fourth, Amazon imprint eBooks will never be available in any other eBook store. I make enough from my sales through stores other than Amazon to enjoy a comfortable living. Would Amazon, with their marketing capability on their own website, sell enough copies to make up for that? Yeah, that's probably a given, but I already have that extra income, so I would just be shifting the royalties, and I would be getting a fraction of the Net I get from those other stores.
> 
> The folks at 47North were very pleasant to talk with and negotiate with, but at the end of the day, the terms of the deal just weren't right for me. We all have to decide what we want out of Indie publishing, and if 47North is your goal, go for it.
> 
> Good luck. Keep writing and keep working to improve your skills. When your sales and ratings begin to reflect success, 47North will be in touch.


I pretty much agree with everything you said. Just one question. Did you think in terms of a book (or series) with Amazon simply to benefit from their added marketing push on the Amazon sites in terms of not just selling the contracted books but expanding your overall fanbase. It seems if they moved an extra 10,000 units on Amazon, for example, you might pick up some thousands of new readers for other books. Just curious on your thinking on this.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

scribblr said:


> As with the many of the other respondents here, I was approached by 47North. They contacted me by email to set up a conference call. I didn't then, and still don't, have an agent. I've had a number of best selling books in the sci-fi genre on Amazon and have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. When you have a big pie, everyone wants a slice. The trouble with publishers is that they want most of the pie. I declined 47North's offer for several reasons. First and foremost, the contract they offered licensed my books to them for the term of copyright. That means 70 years beyond my death. Perhaps they've changed that now, but back in 2012, they would have owned my books forever. Second, when you consider that Amazon has about 60% of the eBook market, the royalty rate they were offering was no better than that offered by trad publishers, which I have also turned down. Third, Barnes and Noble will probably never sell the books offered by an Amazon imprint in their store, unless it's on a case by case basis arranged through agreement between the store manager and an author. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in every case I've heard of where a B&N store has an Amazon imprint in stock, that was the case, and it was limited to one store or a small area. Fourth, Amazon imprint eBooks will never be available in any other eBook store. I make enough from my sales through stores other than Amazon to enjoy a comfortable living. Would Amazon, with their marketing capability on their own website, sell enough copies to make up for that? Yeah, that's probably a given, but I already have that extra income, so I would just be shifting the royalties, and I would be getting a fraction of the Net I get from those other stores.
> 
> The folks at 47North were very pleasant to talk with and negotiate with, but at the end of the day, the terms of the deal just weren't right for me. We all have to decide what we want out of Indie publishing, and if 47North is your goal, go for it.
> 
> Good luck. Keep writing and keep working to improve your skills. When your sales and ratings begin to reflect success, 47North will be in touch.


That's interesting. I always read that Amazon's terms were incredibly more favorable than tradpubs, but to hear that it's almost the same (or at least not incredibly much, much better) is a bit of a surprise.


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## scribblr (Aug 20, 2010)

Jay Allan said:


> I pretty much agree with everything you said. Just one question. Did you think in terms of a book (or series) with Amazon simply to benefit from their added marketing push on the Amazon sites in terms of not just selling the contracted books but expanding your overall fanbase. It seems if they moved an extra 10,000 units on Amazon, for example, you might pick up some thousands of new readers for other books. Just curious on your thinking on this.


The trad publishers I've talked to have wanted to lock me into writing trilogies for them. I would have been much more amenable to a single book deal, with first refusal rights on a next book, but they haven't been receptive. 47North wanted me to sign for four books. I would have done one, with a five-year license.

However, on another important issue, the trad publishers are finally starting to loosen up a bit. An agent told me she won't agree to a contract that contains a non-compete clause, and the publishers are accepting that. Now if the Big 5 would just loosen their stranglehold on the 25/75 rate. Eventually, they'll have to, but they want to take advantage just as long as they can.


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## scribblr (Aug 20, 2010)

jackcrows said:


> That's interesting. I always read that Amazon's terms were incredibly more favorable than tradpubs, but to hear that it's almost the same (or at least not incredibly much, much better) is a bit of a surprise.


I don't know what they are currently offering. My offer came in April of 2012. The rate was 35% of Net. Random House only offered me 25% of Net. BUT, Random House sells to the entire market place. In other words, 100% of potential readers can buy your book. Amazon is by far the biggest reseller, but they only sell to 60% or 70% of the market place. 25% of 100% is 25%, while 35% of 70% is 24.5%. So yes, 47North's royalty rate is higher, until you do the math.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

beccaprice said:


> Pity Amazon doesn't have a children's imprint.


Yet. I expect it. I mean, they just launched a Christian imprint, after all. How far off can children's books be?


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish said:


> Ten books self-pubbed, six books with Orbit, three with 47North.


And millions in an off-shore account, I'm sure...  lol


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

scribblr said:


> I don't know what they are currently offering. My offer came in April of 2012. The rate was 35% of Net. Random House only offered me 25% of Net. BUT, Random House sells to the entire market place. In other words, 100% of potential readers can buy your book. Amazon is by far the biggest reseller, but they only sell to 60% or 70% of the market place. 25% of 100% is 25%, while 35% of 70% is 24.5%. So yes, 47North's royalty rate is higher, until you do the math.


Food for thought. Thanks for your experiences, scribblr.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Yet. I expect it. I mean, they just launched a Christian imprint, after all. How far off can children's books be?


Kay posted this in response to that...



KayBratt said:


> Your wish has been granted!
> 
> http://www.apub.com/imprint-detail?imprint=11


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## Jude Hardin (Feb 5, 2011)

I signed a four-book deal with Thomas and Mercer, the last of which was released November 2013. The ebook royalties are better than what you'll get with traditional publishers (they don't have to discount to themselves, so their net is automatically twice that of another publisher), but most brick and mortar stores refuse to stock Amazon titles. So it's kind of a tradeoff. And as far as I know they still only accept agented submissions. Unless they contact you directly, of course.


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

Jude Hardin said:


> I signed a four-book deal with Thomas and Mercer, the last of which was released November 2013. The ebook royalties are better than what you'll get with traditional publishers (they don't have to discount to themselves, so their net is automatically twice that of another publisher), but most brick and mortar stores refuse to stock Amazon titles. So it's kind of a tradeoff. And as far as I know they still only accept agented submissions. Unless they contact you directly, of course.


Thanks for the info, Jude. I've been following you from Joe's blog and was hoping you'd chime in. How's iSEAL doing, by the way? I know you were pretty high on it while you were writing it. Did it hit as you expected?


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## NedMarcus (Dec 29, 2017)

A useful thread. Is the situation still the same with 47 North and the other Amazon imprints? Does anyone have more recent experience?


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