# A Different Approach to BookBub (Final Update, four weeks later)



## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

I have a BookBub ad on Friday for Fallen Out, my newest novel. If you remember last time, I set up a number of smaller ads scheduled three days apart for two weeks before the BookBub ad to slowly push it up the ranking. It did do better than the previous ad, reaching #58 in Paid Kindle. The first time, Fallen Palm started at #17K or so and last time, Fallen Hunter started at about #7K. 

Fallen Out hasn't been ranked any worse than #3656 since it launched on 5/30 and has been bouncing between #1500 and #2500 all this month. With the better ranking this time over the other two times, I'm waiting until the day before the BookBub ad to run the other ads to see what a big push all at once will do.

I have a Kindle Countdown Deal scheduled to start tonight and extend through the 4th at $.99. On Thursday, I'm running the following ads: ENT, FussyLibrarian, KBoards, Kindle Books and Tips, and Fiverr. The Countdown Deal, starting 36 hours before all those, should push Fallen Out into the top 1000 in Paid Kindle, then with all those ads on Thursday, it should rise close to #500. 

Starting from that higher platform, I'm looking for at least a top 50, but am really hoping for a top 20 in Paid Kindle. The Countdown Deal starts at 9:00 pm EDT tonight, but I'll have to manually adjust the price in the UK store. When I set up the KCD, the price in the UK was too low and I changed it. Then the date of the BB ad was within the 30 day window for a price change. I went ahead and set it up for 8/2, the earliest it would let me. But, I still have to manually lower it just before the BB ad comes out.

I'll post here in the morning, exactly where the book is in ranking, when the KCD starts and keep everyone apprised of each days results. This should be pretty interesting.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne,
I regret to inform you that you will not be getting a sale from me with this bookbub ad.  Amazon is mean and will not let me buy the book again.

Seriously good luck.


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## abishop (May 22, 2014)

Thanks for posting all of this info on your sales and tactics, Wayne. It's great info.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> I regret to inform you that you will not be getting a sale from me with this bookbub ad. Amazon is mean and will not let me buy the book again.
> 
> Seriously good luck.


LMBO!! Yes, I've been lazy. I wrote four books in eleven months, or 2.75 months per book, but I'm only half way through my current WIP after two months.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne,
You have been working hard and are probably finding less time to write now than previously.
If I remember right, you did very little marketing while you still had your other job.  Your priorities have now shifted.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> You have been working hard and are probably finding less time to write now than previously.
> If I remember right, you did very little marketing while you still had your other job. Your priorities have now shifted.


Yeah, that's the ticket. I'm not lazy, I'm just spending more time 'marketing'. Wanna buy my book? 

Seriously, yeah, In the last two months, I've created a number of spread sheets to more closely monitor daily sales and more importantly, the tax implication from those sales. I'm also spending a lot more time on more than a half dozen social sites (which I hate) promoting my books and my visibility. I've also been updating my four previous books with corrections to a number of minot things. I'll be uploading new editions just before I publish this WIP. Lastly, this book will be longer than the others. It's already the same length as Fallen Out and the characters are still working up to heading to the Bahamas.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Take your time.  I want the new one to be good not rushed.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Up and running. The Kindle Countdown Deal has started and the price is confirmed at $.99. Since I record sales on a spreadsheet every night at 9 pm, I set the Kindle Countdown Deal to start at that time.

Fallen Out is currently ranked at #1798 in Paid Kindle. By morning, I hope that will be close to #1500. 

By tomorrow evening, I hope it will be close to the #1000 spot and continue to climb Thursday due to the KCD, which runs through the 4th and the ads for ENT, FussyLibrarian, Fiverr, KBoards, and KB&T.

By the time the BookBub ad appears Friday morning, I hope to be inside the top 900 in Paid Kindle. Since my normal sales is about 60, selling over 100 a day for two days shouldn't be out of the question.

By Friday night, I hope to be inside the top 100 and with luck inside the top 20 by Saturday morning. 

A great way to end a month and start a new one.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Good luck Wayne! Don't be discouraged tomorrow…..I've found that Kindle Books and Tips and ENT, your two big ones, don't start showing results until late afternoon (for Kindle books and Tips, the email goes out around 3 ET, and early evening for ENT, the real impact for ENT comes when you are posted to the FB page.) Those two together should be powerful. Wouldn't be surprised to see you break top 500.


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## Wired (Jan 10, 2014)

Good luck with your promotion! What fiverr ads do you run?


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Wayne, please post frequently. I am very interested in how this all goes. My BB ad is Monday (freebie) and I'll keep you posted on those results as well.

John


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Although Fallen Out didn't reach 1500 over night, it made substantial gains. After ten hours on the Countdown Deal, it's up to #1612.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> I regret to inform you that you will not be getting a sale from me with this bookbub ad. Amazon is mean and will not let me buy the book again.
> 
> Seriously good luck.


It's easy, Cin, just go to your account on Amazon and delete the book. Amazon will let you buy it again anytime you want


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Pixel of Ink picked you up today, so you should do very, very nicely.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

SevenDays said:


> Pixel of Ink picked you up today, so you should do very, very nicely.


Very cool!! I wasn't aware they did pro bono advertising.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Approaching the top 1000 now. #1,112 in Paid Kindle. As afternoon moves into evening, I'll get even more sales. I'm certain to crack the top 1000, before the first ad appears. Well, paid ad. Thanks Pixels of Ink for picking up on the Countdown Deal.

Still about 20-24 hours until the first paid ad and about 44 hours until the BookBub ad. The Kindle Countdown Deal has already sold over 115 copies, which is about 45 more than a full day's average. Average daily sales for Fallen Out are about $140. The KCD needs to generate 200 sales to equal that.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

A strange coincidence Wayne. I ran a bookbub ad yesterday and POI advertised my freebie 2 Days before. A surprise to me but may help prove your theory. Perhaps the combination helped propel it into the #1 free spot.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Rayven T. Hill said:


> A strange coincidence Wayne. I ran a bookbub ad yesterday and POI advertised my freebie 2 Days before. A surprise to me but may help prove your theory. Perhaps the combination helped propel it into the #1 free spot.


Good job, Rayven.

For those not familiar with what I'm doing, allow me to explain. I don't believe there's any such thing as a BookBub tail, though it's spoken of on here a lot. When you have a BB ad, you sell a ton of books really fast on the day of the ad. Sure there will be a few sales the day after and the day after that, which can be attributed to people not checking their email the day of the ad. But the vast majority of the higher sales for days and weeks after the ad, I feel are mostly attributed to the ranking.

Amazon's algorithm to determine ranking is based on a lot of things, primary of which is sales per hour and per day. To a much smaller degree, it includes sales over weeks and months and a steady climb. A few months ago, I tried an experiment. Instead of placing smaller ads after BB, I placed a series of ads spaced three days apart for three weeks before the BB ad. That book slowly, but steadily climbed up the rankings and I had a far better experience both on the day of the ad and for many weeks after.

My theory is simply this: The higher the launching platform, the higher the orbit. Kinda like why the shuttle used boosters to get off the ground, allowing the main engines to push further into orbit, after they burned out.

This launch is guaranteed to start from a much higher platform. If I'm right, it will not only go higher, but maintain orbit for much longer. Who knows. Maybe it'll never come down.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Wayne,
I don't think I've seen anyone do this before, front-load all the ads and then not do any after BB. It will be interesting to watch. Thanks for sharing your data real-time, I always enjoy these posts. 

Oh, and I see you just broke through the 1000 level, at #969. Awesome!


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

Agreed Wayne. My freebie was hanging around the 100 rank for quite awhile. POI knocked it down to the 60's and then bookbub finished the job. The book's history of having a faIrly good ranking seemed to have aided bookbub.

And since my other books have decent rankings as well, I expect any buyers that got the freebies should bring them down more because of the long term effect rather than just a short burst.

One more point. When you get into the top 10 or so, a lot of other sites will pick up the book, helping to keep the rankings high.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Good job, Rayven.
> 
> For those not familiar with what I'm doing, allow me to explain. I don't believe there's any such thing as a BookBub tail, though it's spoken of on here a lot. When you have a BB ad, you sell a ton of books really fast on the day of the ad. Sure there will be a few sales the day after and the day after that, which can be attributed to people not checking their email the day of the ad. But the vast majority of the higher sales for days and weeks after the ad, I feel are mostly attributed to the ranking.
> 
> ...


This strategy worked for me, Wayne; although it was purely by accident. I signed up for a $10 cross-promo, partnered with two other authors two days before my BookBub. We pimped each others books on FaceBook, blogs and Twitter. So I was shooting up the charts for 48 hrs, then my BookBub hit and my book hit #1 in the entire store and stayed there for 36 hours. It was a nice ride. I had 56,000 (free) downloads from just 'Zon.com store. I didn't run any ads before or after, IIRC.


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

Hi Wayne,

I wanted to ask how you go about securing the promos.  I imagine you applied for the Bookbub ad first - Did you give them a specific date or small window?  Or just let them pick?  And then once you got a firm date from them, you applied for specific dates at all of the other sites?  Did you have to do any wrangling with the other sites to get the day you want?

I haven't done any serious promo yet, but it seems like there could be a lot of juggling involved between promos and pricing, especially for someone on multiple platforms.

Best of luck!  I can't wait to see how it goes.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

It's an interesting tactic. I hope it goes well for you! It'll be really cool if it works out as well as you're hoping.

In my experience, I have most definitely seen a distinct tail with BookBub, but with a series it is a long-lasting tail. And launching from my then-usual rankings (at the time of my last BB ad, all my books were hanging around 20,000 - 30,000 without any promotion, just AlsoBought and placings on Top 100 genre lists) I got all the way up to #3 in the whole store. You can't go a whole lot higher than that.  Also, by putting the first in a series into BB, I saw sustained sales from that ad which went on for almost eight weeks and earned me $8000 before it levelled back off to my usual, pre-BB sales. So I did definitely note a tail with BB.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

EllisaBarr said:


> Hi Wayne,
> 
> I wanted to ask how you go about securing the promos. I imagine you applied for the Bookbub ad first - Did you give them a specific date or small window? Or just let them pick? And then once you got a firm date from them, you applied for specific dates at all of the other sites? Did you have to do any wrangling with the other sites to get the day you want?
> 
> ...


Yeah, when BookBub accepts you, it's usually well down the road, rarely within the next week. I always apply with an open date, choosing the earliest and latest dates their calendar shows. But, I always make sure the book I'm applying is available to do the Countdown Deal. It makes a huge difference. After that, I apply to the smaller ads for the specific date. Some ask what your second and third choice would be and I enter the same date with a note that if it's not available, I'll pass on advertising with them this time. There are plenty of advertising sites out there, I just tend to stick with the ones I know did well for me in the past.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> It's an interesting tactic. I hope it goes well for you! It'll be really cool if it works out as well as you're hoping.
> 
> In my experience, I have most definitely seen a distinct tail with BookBub, but with a series it is a long-lasting tail. And launching from my then-usual rankings (at the time of my last BB ad, all my books were hanging around 20,000 - 30,000 without any promotion, just AlsoBought and placings on Top 100 genre lists) I got all the way up to #3 in the whole store. You can't go a whole lot higher than that.  Also, by putting the first in a series into BB, I saw sustained sales from that ad which went on for almost eight weeks and earned me $8000 before it levelled back off to my usual, pre-BB sales. So I did definitely note a tail with BB.


My experience was the same. My contention is that it's not a BB tail, but rather a ranking tail. Sure BB supplies the ranking, but their part is done within a day or two after the ad. The day of the ad, I'd suspect that 95% of the email recipients open it and buy or don't buy. The next day, there may be another 3% or 4% of recipients open it for the first time. I doubt if any recipients open a BB email four or more days after it was sent out.

So the tail has more to do with how you rank due to the ad, than the ad itself. Yeah, it's splitting hairs, I know. Here's what my Author Rank in Action/Adventure looks like over the last two BB ads I placed. Pretty easy to tell what day they were.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh Wayne.  Know some people use a previewer and do not have to open the e-mail.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh Wayne. Know some people use a previewer and do not have to open the e-mail.


True. What I'm talking about are those who for one reason or another don't even look at the ad from BookBub until days after the ad was sent out. For instance, when I went down to Beaufort a few weeks back, I didn't even look at any incoming email until I got home. Four days of BookBub ads were waiting for me. I deleted two and opened the two most recent.

Calling it a BookBub tail implies the people are opening the ad for days and weeks after. But, like everyone else, I'll still use the term, inaccurate as it may be.

I'd hoped to hit #900 by Friday morning when the BB ad comes out. But, I'm there already. Currently at #906, with 311 sales. That's already 50% more revenue than this book usually generates in a day. Say what you will about Select, but the Kindle Countdown Deal works.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Congrats on your sales.  Though I thought they meant the tail was because BB got their rankings up, not late email readers.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> My experience was the same. My contention is that it's not a BB tail, but rather a ranking tail. Sure BB supplies the ranking, but their part is done within a day or two after the ad. The day of the ad, I'd suspect that 95% of the email recipients open it and buy or don't buy. The next day, there may be another 3% or 4% of recipients open it for the first time. I doubt if any recipients open a BB email four or more days after it was sent out.
> 
> So the tail has more to do with how you rank due to the ad, than the ad itself. Yeah, it's splitting hairs, I know. Here's what my Author Rank in Action/Adventure looks like over the last two BB ads I placed. Pretty easy to tell what day they were.


That hasn't been my experience (after several Bookbub ads in a host of different genres). The biggest sales come the day of the mailing, sure. But I get decent sales for as long as I've told BB the book will be on sale--seems obvious to me that people are going to their site and picking books from there, in addition to just opening the mail. In fact, I had one book where they accidentally left out some of the vendors on the email (so they refunded some of the ad purchase price, which was decent of them, and I was satisfied), but I got sales for the # of days I'd told BB the book would be on sale, even from those other sites. The day it no longer appeared on the BB site, sales dropped dramatically, even though I had yet not put the price change through and the book was still on sale for several more days.

For more sales after the day of a BB ad, leave the book on sale for another few days and make sure BB knows it.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

1001nightspress said:


> That hasn't been my experience (after several Bookbub ads in a host of different genres). The biggest sales come the day of the mailing, sure. But I get decent sales for as long as I've told BB the book will be on sale--seems obvious to me that people are going to their site and picking books from there, in addition to just opening the mail. In fact, I had one book where they accidentally left out some of the vendors on the email (so they refunded some of the ad purchase price, which was decent of them, and I was satisfied), but I got sales for the # of days I'd told BB the book would be on sale, even from those other sites. The day it no longer appeared on the BB site, sales dropped dramatically, even though I had yet not put the price change through and the book was still on sale for several more days.
> 
> For more sales after the day of a BB ad, leave the book on sale for another few days and make sure BB knows it.


Absolutely!! Mine's hardly a Countdown Deal in the true sense. It's set at $.99 for the entire six days. Two days before the ad, to start the climb and four days after.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

First 24 hours just ended. I recorded 251 sales of Fallen Out since 9 pm last night when the price dropped. But the graph shows 434. Keep in mind the graph shows orders, not completed sales. Also, it starts at midnight Pacific time and I'm on the east coast. My 251 sales are from 9 pm Eastern to 9 pm Eastern, while the graph's 434 orders are from 3 am Eastern to 9 pm Eastern. Confused?

As far as ranking goes, it went much better than I predicted. Yesterday, I posted that I was hoping to go from #1798 to near #1000. Currently, Fallen Out is ranked #875 in Paid Kindle.

Since the graph shows way more orders than sales completed, I feel confident that when I check in the morning, the rank will be near #800. The ads will start to appear about 9 am and continue to appear until after noon. I'm now hoping to hit #500 at least before the BookBub ad goes out Friday morning.

See you in the morning.


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## AJStewart (May 10, 2014)

#371 at 9pm PT. Well done Wayne, great result.
And thanks for sharing.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Looking good, Wayne!!!


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Loving this thread, Wayne!

Good to see that at least for some there is some scientific predictability in what for many (certainly for me) seems to be a totally random experience.

Looking forward to seeing where you end up and if you consistently meet or exceed your predicted goals.

My guess is "exceed" by 10% - 15%


Philip


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## coolpixel (Sep 17, 2012)

Wayne,

do you price the BookBub deals at 0.99 too?

i presume this is the process you follow

secure BookBub date
set up a KCD deal window so that the BB date falls within that window
set up other promos in the run upto BB

if i remember right, the other promo sites you use is ENT... or are there others?

lastly, which are these social sites you mentioned in a previous post.

thks


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Good job, Rayven.
> 
> For those not familiar with what I'm doing, allow me to explain. I don't believe there's any such thing as a BookBub tail, though it's spoken of on here a lot. When you have a BB ad, you sell a ton of books really fast on the day of the ad. Sure there will be a few sales the day after and the day after that, which can be attributed to people not checking their email the day of the ad. But the vast majority of the higher sales for days and weeks after the ad, I feel are mostly attributed to the ranking.


Actually, I believe the ranking boost and boost to visibility is exactly what is meant when we discuss the Bookbub tail. At least, that's what I always assumed. I don't think anyone seriously believed that people were still clicking BB emails THREE MONTHS LATER! Come on Wayne, be sensible. No one ever thought that. No, we were always talking about the BB EFFECT, and that effect is ranks/visibility.

Just my opinion of course... yada yada, don't kill me or shoot the messenger etc etc


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## Nancy Warren (May 5, 2014)

This is a really interesting strategy, frontloading ads. I like your rocket booster analogy. I think I did something similar by accident. I had a BB ad July 2 for Frosted Shadow, a freebie. I'm not in Select and I've never tried to make something permafree on Amazon before so I was terrified it wouldn't go free in time. It did, with about a week to spare. I never mentioned it anywhere but strange random sites started picking it up and I had 20K downloads before the BB came out. It was already pretty high in the free rankings and then went to #1 free either the day of or the day after BB I forget. 

The huge impact, of course, is on sales of the second mystery in the series which is $3.99 and I'm definitely still noticing the boost. 

It's great fun to watch your progress. Thanks for sharing.

Nancy


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## Amber Rose (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm in the +2GMT time zone, and Fallen Out is ranked #256, so ...well done!!

I'm curious though...the countdown deal says that the price will go from $0,99 to $5,69 in four days, but the "digital price" is showing as $2,99. I think the difference is the premium we pay when not in the US. Do you know if that is the case? I know that we pay more for a lot of the books becasue of the download fees, but $2,69 "extra" seems like a lot for Amazon to charge.....


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

coolpixel said:


> Wayne,
> 
> do you price the BookBub deals at 0.99 too?


Yes, all the ads are at $.99.



> i presume this is the process you follow
> 
> secure BookBub date
> set up a KCD deal window so that the BB date falls within that window
> set up other promos in the run upto BB


Right on the money.



> if i remember right, the other promo sites you use is ENT... or are there others?


ENT, Fiverr, KB&T, KBoards, and FussyLibrarian, this time. I've also used BookGorilla, eBookSoda, GoodKindle and, BookSends effectively. They just couldn't do it today.



> lastly, which are these social sites you mentioned in a previous post.


Facebook and Twitter, of course. I count KBoards as a social site, also. Then GoodReads, LinkedIn, a couple of Marine Corps discussion forums, and boating discussion forums.



Mark E. Cooper said:


> Come on Wayne, be sensible. No one ever thought that. No, we were always talking about the BB EFFECT, and that effect is ranks/visibility.


Of course not, I like BB Effect better. My point is that after looking at a lot of others data and my own data, there's a direct correlation between the length of the tail and the pinnacle ranking achieved. It stands to reason the higher the ranking before BB (selling 1000+ in one day) the longer the tail. Not just the sales tail, but the Author Ranking tail as well.



Nancy Warren said:


> The huge impact, of course, is on sales of the second mystery in the series which is $3.99 and I'm definitely still noticing the boost.


Sell through to other titles is the ultimate tail, whether your ad is for free or $.99. Fallen Out is a prequel and was written for two reasons. First, to answer the many questions my readers had about the characters' back stories and secondly, as a low priced launch to the other books.



Amber Rose said:


> I'm in the +2GMT time zone, and Fallen Out is ranked #256, so ...well done!!
> 
> I'm curious though...the countdown deal says that the price will go from $0,99 to $5,69 in four days, but the "digital price" is showing as $2,99. I think the difference is the premium we pay when not in the US. Do you know if that is the case? I know that we pay more for a lot of the books becasue of the download fees, but $2,69 "extra" seems like a lot for Amazon to charge.....


This, I have no idea about. I wanted to set up a Countdown Deal for the UK also, but the regular price wasn't high enough. Once I changed it so that it would be, it fell within the 30 day cutoff for the Countdown Deal. I'll be lowering it manually tonight for the BB ad.

I was astounded at the results so far for the Countdown Deal. I woke up this morning to 350 sales since 9 pm last night and a ranking of:
#227 Paid in Kindle Store
#21 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Military
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
#5 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery

Probably a couple more, but these are the ones I'm watching.

The first ad should be out in an hour or so. There's a chance, due primarily to ENT and Fiverr, that it could reach #100 before the BookBub ad comes out tomorrow. That's a LOT more than I expected.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Nancy Warren said:


> This is a really interesting strategy, frontloading ads. I like your rocket booster analogy. I think I did something similar by accident. I had a BB ad July 2 for Frosted Shadow, a freebie. I'm not in Select and I've never tried to make something permafree on Amazon before so I was terrified it wouldn't go free in time. It did, with about a week to spare. I never mentioned it anywhere but strange random sites started picking it up and I had 20K downloads before the BB came out. It was already pretty high in the free rankings and then went to #1 free either the day of or the day after BB I forget.
> 
> The huge impact, of course, is on sales of the second mystery in the series which is $3.99 and I'm definitely still noticing the boost.
> 
> ...


I am so glad to hear this about sales of the second book. I have a BB coming on Monday Aug 4, a freebie too. But after reading Wayne's I was starting to think I had messed up by going freebie, as in, why? But your comments about sales of the second book have given me hope. Thanks for that. Next time, Wayne, if BB will have me again, I'll try the .99 variety too. You're a very ingenious guy!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

John Ellsworth said:


> I am so glad to hear this about sales of the second book. I have a BB coming on Monday Aug 4, a freebie too. But after reading Wayne's I was starting to think I had messed up by going freebie, as in, why? But your comments about sales of the second book have given me hope. Thanks for that. Next time, Wayne, if BB will have me again, I'll try the .99 variety too. You're a very ingenious guy!


Thanks, John. But, it's nothing that others can't pick up reading on here. I'd seen a number of people mention how they'd accidentally scheduled a Countdown Deal or other ad on the wrong day and how much better their BookBub ad did. A few months ago, I started looking more in depth at ranking before and after BookBub ads. They're pretty easy to spot on the Amazon's genre best seller lists. They appear in the top 20 out of nowhere with a low price, shoot to #1 in hours and fade away a few days later. All I did was follow them on EBookTracker. I figured if it worked accidentally for folks on here, why not try it intentionally? When I did it with Fallen Hunter two months ago, I had a whole lot better results than with Fallen Palm two months before that. I can already tell that this one will eclipse what Fallen Hunter did.

Part of me would love to do a freebie on BookBub and I actually wrote Fallen Out to be permafree. There's just something that goes against the grain of my psyche to give anything away, with the exception of my Church and other charities. Fallen Out only took seven weeks from start to publish, including beta reads, proofreads, editing and cover. It's barely the minimum BookBub will take at 153 pages. From the day after it published it's been my best seller by more than 200% over any of my other books. Give it away? Hmmmm, that's gonna take some arm twisting.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne,
As the queen of cheap/free, let me tell you something.  If it is selling very good, do not give it away.  That would be shooting yourself in the foot with a 357.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Yes, very ingenious nonetheless to have spotted that trend!

As far as giving away books, there are two distinct schools of thought on that (at least two). Some people on here swear by permafree and others won't give anything away (except to Church and select charities). Nick Stephenson has a terrific two-part posting on this that is part anecdotal and part statistical. Something in me wants to try what he says. Nick's link is http://noorosha.com/breakingfree/ if you're interested. The other half of the permafree solution, of course, is that all of one's eggs aren't in one basket, by selling on non-Zon platforms. As a business person this makes some sense to me.

As somewhat of a newbie here, the conclusions I am drawing are twofold: KCD works. Permafree works. I'm beginnng to think that KCD might be the answer to the author with perhaps only standalone books, while the author with a series will want to try the permafree route.

I plan to keep on reading posts like yours and the others on here, for guidance. Thank goodness for all we can learn on these boards!


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> As the queen of cheap/free, let me tell you something. If it is selling very good, do not give it away. That would be shooting yourself in the foot with a 357.


Cin, I have a friend, another writer well-known on Amazon, who told me he has given away 250,000 books in twenty months. He believes that strategy accounts for why he is selling 1000 books/day.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Want a reader's opinion on the best way to get major book sales.
Write a few great books and market the heck out of them.

@John,
Can you ask your friend how well his book was selling before he started giving it away?  And if you whisper me his name, I will check him out.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Note to self, 
Make sure to read a post properly before asking a question.    And John I think I know your friend's name.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

I agree that permafree works but you still need to market the book. It has worked for me, but there are obviously other alternatives as Wayne has proven.


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## AJStewart (May 10, 2014)

With the advent of KU, does permafree have a future? I have my 3rd and 4th books in my series in the pipeline, and I was thinking of going permafree with the 1st, but Wayne has shown that at $0.99 there is still a good result to be had. For me it's not about the money or whether it is free - I am ok with loss leaders - but more the idea that at $0.99 readers have some skin in the game, are more likely to read the book, and are more likely to buy a subsequent full price books. Then there is the notion that with a free book you get a lot of tire kickers who would not regularly try your stuff but do it because it's free, then slam you in reviews because it wasn't a book they were ever going to like.
But then there are many permafree case studies that show it works...
I guess it's back to marketing rule #1: Test, test, test.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> As the queen of cheap/free, let me tell you something. If it is selling very good, do not give it away. That would be shooting yourself in the foot with a 357.


Not a chance of that happening. A .40, .45, 9mm, .223, .30-30, .30-06, or 12 ga, maybe. I don't own a .357. Used to have two, rifle and pistol. Wish I still had that rifle.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

AJStewart said:


> With the advent of KU, does permafree have a future? I have my 3rd and 4th books in my series in the pipeline, and I was thinking of going permafree with the 1st, but Wayne has shown that at $0.99 there is still a good result to be had. For me it's not about the money or whether it is free - I am ok with loss leaders - but more the idea that at $0.99 readers have some skin in the game, are more likely to read the book, and are more likely to buy a subsequent full price books. Then there is the notion that with a free book you get a lot of tire kickers who would not regularly try your stuff but do it because it's free, then slam you in reviews because it wasn't a book they were ever going to like.
> But then there are many permafree case studies that show it works...
> I guess it's back to marketing rule #1: Test, test, test.


I will try to answer your questions.
1. Just because Amazon came out with KU, that does not mean every kindle owner will use it. In reader forums, I think the split is about 50/50 right now. It may be less than that for getting a subscription. So I don't think it will have much impact on those that pick up permafree.
2. Most readers that buy several books could not tell you whether they got the book free or they paid for it. Yes, you will get one or two "bad" reviews because it was not something one normally read, but by the same token, you will pick up more readers than you get bad reviews. Here is the biggie and it is huge. The readers you need in the beginning are the voracious readers. We have to buy cheap/free to keep up with our habit. We also take chances on new authors.

Now I am going to totally use and abuse Wayne. About 8 months ago, I didn't know Wayne from Adam. He came in here and acted very professional. Now I didn't realize that I liked sea adventure. It had never piqued my interest before. However, Wayne piqued my interest and a friend recommended him with a guarantee. So I decided to try Fallen Palm. I loved it. Needless to say, I now own and have read all of Wayne's books. Note the key word here is READ. He is one of a less than a handful of authors that I read as soon as I buy or con a friend into buying the book for me. It is obvious to me as a reader that he is very invested in his books.

I was talking to someone while ago about this thread and price of books, the key point to selling books is write a good book and invest yourself in it. If you really believe in your book then others will too. This means using good marketing techniques.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

AACCHH!! I feel so abused.   Thanks for taking a chance, Cindy and for talking me up all over the net.

Four of the five ads are out now and just in time. Sales started to slip an hour ago and Fallen Out fell to #240. I'm hoping the ads will hold me through the day, until the evening hours when sales usually go up. If I can remain in the 200's, there's a real good chance that the BookBub ad in the morning will give me enough push to make the top 20 in Paid Kindle. That will take more than 1200 sales per day. I got 1267 with Fallen Hunter two months ago.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> AACCHH!! I feel so abused.  Thanks for taking a chance, Cindy and for talking me up all over the net.
> 
> Four of the five ads are out now and just in time. Sales started to slip an hour ago and Fallen Out fell to #240. I'm hoping the ads will hold me through the day, until the evening hours when sales usually go up. If I can remain in the 200's, there's a real good chance that the BookBub ad in the morning will give me enough push to make the top 20 in Paid Kindle. That will take more than 1200 sales per day. I got 1267 with Fallen Hunter two months ago.


I was gentle. I left the whips in the drawer. I hope the ads do hold you up. I think I mentioned you the other day too.


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## spike Pedersen (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm all ears here! Good information.
Thanks for the inside scoop.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Cindy has an affinity with water, SEALs, bathtubs, jets, and lavendar bubbles.


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## AnthonyJMelchiorri (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks for all the info, Wayne.

All this talk of the BookBub tail actually got me thinking (and I know this was mentioned on another thread before). Since I've only got one novel out right now and I'm only only moving a couple a day when I don't promote it, my ranking fluctuates quite a bit. I noticed the rankings moving considerably even after I hadn't made another sale yesterday. Well, I checked my KDP reports and all the sudden more borrows popped up from almost a week ago. 

Since my book is in select, more KU borrows are showing up as people read finish that first 10%. Those people borrowed it on promo-heavy days. I presume they saw the book in ENT or Kindle Books and Tips or they picked it up because it was just high in the ranks on those days.

Anyway, I'm actually seeing a prolonged rank spike. It's not like my book is ranked highly anyway, but there is actually a tail because those KU readers are just now reading it. If it were a normal sale on that day, I wouldn't have that prolonged rank increase.

Soooo...that's an awfully convoluted way of saying that maybe, due to Kindle Unlimited, the effects on rank and visibility will be even more prolonged. People will 'borrow' the book through KU and read it sometime down the road. But, even though the borrow is recorded on the day they first picked it up, the rank increases actually occurs when they read that 10%.

Okay, I feel like I'm talking in circles but I hope that makes sense. I'm interested in seeing how KU plays into this strategy for you, Wayne.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Good question Anthony. Since KU started my borrows went from about 7 a day across all four titles to an average of about 30 a day. Borrows of Fallen Out dropped 50% yesterday and today, while the average across all four stayed close to 30. I guess for a buck, some would rather own it and some of those that bought it, maybe borrowed the others.


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## AJStewart (May 10, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> I will try to answer your questions.
> 1. Just because Amazon came out with KU, that does not mean every kindle owner will use it. In reader forums, I think the split is about 50/50 right now. It may be less than that for getting a subscription. So I don't think it will have much impact on those that pick up permafree.
> 2. Most readers that buy several books could not tell you whether they got the book free or they paid for it. Yes, you will get one or two "bad" reviews because it was not something one normally read, but by the same token, you will pick up more readers than you get bad reviews. Here is the biggie and it is huge. The readers you need in the beginning are the voracious readers. We have to buy cheap/free to keep up with our habit. We also take chances on new authors.
> 
> ...


All good points, well made. Thanks. I agree on Wayne - I also recommended him to a few people on forums after reading Fallen Out.



Wayne Stinnett said:


> Good question Anthony. Since KU started my borrows went from about 7 a day across all four titles to an average of about 30 a day. Borrows of Fallen Out dropped 50% yesterday and today, while the average across all four stayed close to 30. I guess for a buck, some would rather own it and some of those that bought it, maybe borrowed the others.


Wayne, have you noticed any effect on sales after the launch of KU? I ask since you tend to price at 3.99, so a KU borrow is less revenue for you (still good, but less!).


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

AJStewart said:


> Wayne, have you noticed any effect on sales after the launch of KU? I ask since you tend to price at 3.99, so a KU borrow is less revenue for you (still good, but less!).


Not really anything dramatic, AJ. Sales across all four dipped maybe 5% after KU, but borrows went up about 400%. All told, net daily revenue stayed about average, not counting the first week when KOLL borrows are always high. I'd estimate that for every lost sale, there were 1.2 or 1.3 borrows, which made up for the lost revenue. This tells me that people on KU are now more apt to read an unknown writer's work, where before the $3.99 price tag was a line they wouldn't cross.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

*********


----------



## AJStewart (May 10, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Not really anything dramatic, AJ. Sales across all four dipped maybe 5% after KU, but borrows went up about 400%. All told, net daily revenue stayed about average, not counting the first week when KOLL borrows are always high. I'd estimate that for every lost sale, there were 1.2 or 1.3 borrows, which made up for the lost revenue. This tells me that people on KU are now more apt to read an unknown writer's work, where before the $3.99 price tag was a line they wouldn't cross.


Interesting, thanks Wayne.


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

Hey Wayne. Sounds like a hell of a plan. 

I tried getting on with Bookbub three or four times with different books, but could never get there interest

I'll be monitoring your progress. LOL, (Lots of Luck)


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> You might want to readjust expectations, Wayne. KU is heavily affecting the Top 100 ranks and the competition is a lot tougher.
> 
> 1266 sales (no, really) was good for #107 on Sunday (618 sales was good for #4 on BN, though).
> 1040 sales was only good for #127 the Tues after KU debuted.
> ...


Interesting. My last BB ad was on 5/31 and 1267 sales got it to #58. I'll compare that to tomorrow's results.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> You might want to readjust expectations, Wayne. KU is heavily affecting the Top 100 ranks and the competition is a lot tougher.
> 
> 1266 sales (no, really) was good for #107 on Sunday (618 sales was good for #4 on BN, though).
> 1040 sales was only good for #127 the Tues after KU debuted.
> ...


Phoenix, as a somewhat new guy here, I want to be sure what this means when you say "KU is heavily affecting the Top 100 ranks and the competition is a lot tougher."

How is KU affecting the top 100 ranks? I'm sure you're right, I just don't understand the variables in the equation--what they are.

Thanks.

John


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

*********


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Sounds like you were lucky enough to run on a slow sales day .
> On June 12, it took 1665 sales to hit #47.
> On Jun 5, 1427 for #53.
> On May 12, 1139 for #78.
> (We run a lot of BB ads.)


Possibly. Do you know what the rank of those books was before the ad?


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

*********


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Sounds like you were lucky enough to run on a slow sales day .
> On June 12, it took 1665 sales to hit #47.
> On Jun 5, 1427 for #53.
> On May 12, 1139 for #78.
> ...


Wow. Thank you. I am totally blown away by this information.

Now to read it ten or twelve times and try to understand it...


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Now 48 hours into this promo and about 12 hours until the BookBub ad comes out.

In that 48 hours, Fallen Hunter rose from #1798 in Paid Kindle to a peak of #227 at 9 am this morning using only a Kindle Countdown Deal. The five less expensive ads I ran today started about 9 am and maintained it in the 200-300 range, as sales from the KCD fell off. It fell to #268 at 7 pm and is now at #246. It sold a total of 828 on the Month to Date Unit Sales report and 1,016 orders on the Dashboard graph. A lot of today's gain on both have been in the last few hours, so it should ride in the 200-300 range over night.

I'll post the overnight stats in the morning just before the BookBub ad is sent out. I'm hoping for a launch from about #300, at least.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Current history (past 2-3 days or so) seems to have been removed from the algos, so it's pretty much raw sales for a book scrabbling up the ranks in a short period of time.


Is this conjecture, hypothesis, or fact. I'll make a call in the morning and see how the algorithm has changed.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Awesome analysis, Phoenix! Thanks!! 

I have a feeling after a couple of months things will simmer down a bit.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks, Phoenix! As usual, I learned much from your analyses. I also learned from current experience how KU-affected rankings also affected the visibility to get on the NYT and USAT lists. The sale numbers are there but the ranking is higher than previous experience and thus, less visibility/sales.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Love this thread Wayne. You're teaching me so much. I've just noticed you're at #210! How exciting!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Woke to another surprise. I was sure Fallen Out would slip a little during the night. It didn't. It actually gained near 100 spots.

Current ranking:
#181 Paid in Kindle Store
#15 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure (Knock, knock, Hugh)
#5 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense
#4 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery
#3 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > War & Military
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
#1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures 

From 9 pm last night to this morning, it sold an additional 319 copies bringing it to 1,147, since going on sale 57 hours ago. With the BookBub ad due out in about three hours and having 48 hours ranked better than #300, a month inside the top 2000 and never having been ranked lower than #3500, I think it stands a pretty fair chance of breaking the top 20. All I need is about 1200-1500 sales from BookBub today.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Woohoo! I can't wait to try some strategies once I have a couple more books out. It's really inspiring watching what you're doing. Thanks for sharing!


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Along the lines of when to place ads to maximize ranking, I noticed J.A. Konrath's Whiskey Sour being promoted all over the place last week on a Countdown deal. It climbed up the rankings, and with 2 days to go, he unveiled a BookBub ad which shot the book up to #11 in overall paid.

Whether others can duplicate this will be interesting, because J.A. is obviously a very popular and well known author, with a number of successful series. On the flip side of the coin, this book has been out for many years and has been promoted a lot. So you would think there would be some diminishing returns, but apparently not, it keeps selling and selling. 

Just some food for thought.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I love the concept of stacking ads, but its painfully hard to coordinate. I mean, you go to BB and you almost HAVE to tell them that they have a free hand with the promo date. Let us assume your begging pays off and you get a date. With that in hand, you go to ENT and tell them you MUST have date X and they are nope! Two weeks later okay? And its the same with other places.

HOW do you dictate a precise date for so many diverse promo sites and get them all to agree?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Mark, I'm not sure it's really necessary to stack other promotions with BookBub. Both times I've done BookBub I've done no additional promotions, and got up to #7 and #3 in the free store, and saw the rest of my books (full price) get up to about the 10,000 rank and hang there for a long time.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Mark, I'm not sure it's really necessary to stack other promotions with BookBub. Both times I've done BookBub I've done no additional promotions, and got up to #7 and #3 in the free store, and saw the rest of my books (full price) get up to about the 10,000 rank and hang there for a long time.


Good point, my greed is showing. But the point is the same regarding stacking and dates. Do you tell them the date they WILL use then? I haven't had a lot of luck doing that. I usually tell them I am flexible and let them fit me in.


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## David J. Rollins (May 1, 2014)

This is a great thread. I'm really learning a lot from it.

Wayne, When you get a chance, can you share what Fiverr promotion you used.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I love the concept of stacking ads, but its painfully hard to coordinate. I mean, you go to BB and you almost HAVE to tell them that they have a free hand with the promo date. Let us assume your begging pays off and you get a date. With that in hand, you go to ENT and tell them you MUST have date X and they are nope! Two weeks later okay? And its the same with other places.
> 
> HOW do you dictate a precise date for so many diverse promo sites and get them all to agree?


As you said, get the BookBub date first. It's usually far enough out, that the smaller advertisers won't have a problem promoting your book on the day you choose. I just tell them if that date's not available, I'll pass and advertise with someone else. There are so many to choose from.



Mark E. Cooper said:


> Good point, my greed is showing. But the point is the same regarding stacking and dates. Do you tell them the date they WILL use then? I haven't had a lot of luck doing that. I usually tell them I am flexible and let them fit me in.


With BookBub, you have to be completely flexible. They're that big. With the others, I approach it like they're not doing me a favor, I'm allowing them to make money by advertising for me.



David J. Rollins said:


> Wayne, When you get a chance, can you share what Fiverr promotion you used.


BKnights gets the best results by far. Plus, if you mention you're from KBoards, BK will do all five gigs for only $5.

Fallen Out just appeared on the BookBub website a few minutes ago. The email should be going out any minute. It's now ranked at #179 and sold 133 copies since midnight Pacific time.


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## David J. Rollins (May 1, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> BKnights gets the best results by far. Plus, if you mention you're from KBoards, BK will do all five gigs for only $5.


Awesome! Thanks.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Mark, I'm not sure it's really necessary to stack other promotions with BookBub. Both times I've done BookBub I've done no additional promotions, and got up to #7 and #3 in the free store, and saw the rest of my books (full price) get up to about the 10,000 rank and hang there for a long time.


I'm sure every approach and all added promo efforts yield additional benefits, but I tend to agree with EL. My recent free BB promo went extremely well, and I did no other promo with it. Maybe it could have been better, but it was definitely good enough for me. 

You are an inspiration, Wayne. Go, go...


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Excitedly checking this thread to see your results, Wayne .


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## Ronny K (Aug 2, 2011)

Just got the blast...


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Gennita Low said:


> Excitedly checking this thread to see your results, Wayne .


Still waiting on the BookBub email. Sometimes it's as early as 11 am and sometimes as late as 2 pm. Not a lot of sales generated from it being on their website. Up to 163 for the day now. Ranking slipped slightly to #183 a few minutes ago. I have things to do today to get ready for a trip in the morning. Wish they'd hurry up and get that email out.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne I see you.  Some pretty heavy hitters today in the bookbub ad.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne I see you. Some pretty heavy hitters today in the bookbub ad.


Finally!

Cindy (and everyone else), you should snag Jinx's book. It's #5 in her series and I'm currently reading #4. GREAT books. Start with the first one, Just Add Water, though.

The ad was emailed at 12:40 EDT and Fallen Out is currently ranked at #186, with 167 sales for the day.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne,
Grabbed Jinx's book.  Now if you want a good romance, grab Bella Andre.  I saw she had an ad today too.

Though can someone answer me this.  Why do I get bookbub e-mails?  It seems I have most of those advertised.  And actually talk to several of the authors.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> Grabbed Jinx's book. Now if you want a good romance, grab Bella Andre. I saw she had an ad today too.
> 
> Though can someone answer me this. Why do I get bookbub e-mails? It seems I have most of those advertised. And actually talk to several of the authors.


Maybe someone else enrolled you and used your email. ??

Rock on, Wayne!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

John Ellsworth said:


> Maybe someone else enrolled you and used your email. ??
> 
> Rock on, Wayne!


No. I actually signed up a couple of years ago. Before I found this place. It is just getting harder for me to find books that I didn't pick up in a previous promotion. This could lead to it's own thread. How long till ads become ineffective for the reader?

Matter of fact, I get all the big advertisers. 
Any more I see a book I think will be good, there is a 50/50 shot that I will get an Instant Order Update (IOU) from Amazon letting me know hey silly you picked up the book last year.

Edited to add: Wayne I just used you again.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> Grabbed Jinx's book. Now if you want a good romance, grab Bella Andre. I saw she had an ad today too.
> 
> Though can someone answer me this. Why do I get bookbub e-mails? It seems I have most of those advertised. And actually talk to several of the authors.


Bookaholism is a serious condition. The first step is admitting you have an addiction. 

One hour and forty-five minutes into the BookBub ad and current orders are at 1,050, up almost 900 sales since it came out. That already doubled the cost of the ad, right there. Ranking actually slipped two spots to 188, but rankings lag behind sales by four to six hours. I don't expect any movement there until dinner time. But, sales right now are enough to break the #100 mark.

Gotta cut the grass. I'll update again in a couple of hours.


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## Anthony M.C. (Jul 31, 2014)

I love hearing about this stuff. It's like tinkering with a puzzle, and then tokens pop out! Thank you for writing about your experience with this.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne,
I just got my I loveEbooks email.  Care to guess who was first in the email?


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> I just got my I loveEbooks email. Care to guess who was first in the email?


I can beat that. I got a Kindle Books and Tips email and guess whose book was third in the selection and whose book was seventh in the selection.

The same seasoned seafarer.

Philip


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Wayne,
> I just got my I loveEbooks email. Care to guess who was first in the email?


Really? I never even heard of that one. What was it, something to do with it being on a Coundown?



Philip Gibson said:


> I can beat that. I got a Kindle Books and Tips email and guess whose book was third in the selection and whose book was seventh in the selection.
> 
> The same seasoned seafarer.
> 
> Philip


I had a KB&T promo yesterday, when did you get it?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Wayne,
It means you are doing so well, you were picked up by others free.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I had a KB&T promo yesterday, when did you get it?


Yesterday.

Did you use Ebookbooster? That site submits the book to dozens of other sites on your behalf and can account for being promoted in a site you've never heard of.

Looking at your latest ranking:



> #191 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
> #1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures
> #3 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > War & Military


Philip


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Philip Gibson said:


> Did you use Ebookbooster? That site submits the book to dozens of other sites on your behalf and can account for being promoted in a site you've never heard of.


No, I paid for the KB&T ad. I'll have to remember Ebookbooster, though.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

It's 5 pm, a little over four hours since the ad came out and the ranking has finally take a turn upward after another slide from #186 to #198 at 3:30. Current ranking is #191, with 1657 orders on the dashboard. The next ranking update should be in about fifteen minutes. If there's a drastic upswing, that'll mean there's about a five hour lag between sales and ranking. Something good to know, I guess.

If all 1600 orders are processed today (before midnight Pacific time) that should be good enough for a top 20 ranking. Right now only 678 of those orders have been processed and appear on the Month To Date Unit Sales. If the current rate continues (114 per hour since the ad), I should end the day with about 1600 sales.

Time will tell, but I'm anxious to see the results of this experiment. With a five hour lag, the peak ranking probably won't be reached until morning.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

MrAzzatagoestotheinternet said:


> This is one of the most exciting things I've seen on the internet in a long time. You can do it, little book! Climb! Climb!


Book should now be only minutes away from orbital insertion (the top 100 paid).

Hopefully Wayne has its descent engines fully fueled for when it begins its controlled, powered descent for an eventual soft landing (the top 20 paid).

This is as good as witnessing an Apollo Moon mission (something I've been doing every day for weeks now while researching my next book.)

"Wayne, we have polled the room and you remain GO for orbital insertion at this time!"

Philip


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## LeahEmmaRose (Mar 16, 2014)

I am seeing #60 Paid in Kindle Store now!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Ranking just updated. Moved from #191 to #60 in Paid Kindle, with 1981 orders, 878 sales, and 39 borrows. 

Currently #1 in Sea Adventures, #2 in Mystery, #2 in War & Military, #3 in Mystery, Thriller & Suspense, #6 in Action & Adventure Fiction.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Philip Gibson said:


> Book should now be only minutes away from orbital insertion (the top 100 paid).
> 
> Hopefully Wayne has its descent engines fully fueled for when it begins its controlled, powered descent for an eventual soft landing (the top 20 paid).
> 
> ...


Philip, did you grow up near me?


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

LeahLurker said:


> I am seeing #60 Paid in Kindle Store now!


We copy on the ground! Fallen Out is now in secure orbit, preparing to fire its engines for a powered descent into the top 20 paid.



> #60 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
> #1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures
> #2 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery


Congratulations Wayne! You're doing a fine job so far.

Philip


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Philip, did you grow up near me?


On the Space Coast you mean? No, I grew up on the Yorkshire Coast. Still enthusiastically followed all the Apollo missions though.

When do you expect/hope to begin powered descent into the top 20 paid?

Philip


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## LeahEmmaRose (Mar 16, 2014)

When I search the Top 100 Paid from the main Kindle eBooks page, Fallen Out is ranked at #56. The climb continues. This is so exciting! I am watching and learning. Thanks and good luck, Wayne!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

As a kid and later as an adult, except for when I was away in the service, I got to watch every launch from my front yard. From Mercury to the Shuttle 17, the only night launch of the Apollo program, and many of the Shuttle launches. Apollo 17 lit the night sky just after midnight. I watched as the Challenger exploded. Growing up, I wanted to be an astronaut. My dad's heavy equipment company was one of the contractors that built the landing strip at Kennedy. My brother and I worked for him and ran front end loaders, pushing dirt out into the swamp for months.



Philip Gibson said:


> When do you expect/hope to begin powered descent into the top 20 paid?


I'm hoping the next update will put me in the top 40 and with luck the top 20 by midnight. I won't be able to stay up for it. We're leaving tomorrow to spend a few days at the beach, in Charleston.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

LeahLurker said:


> When I search the Top 100 Paid from the main Kindle eBooks page, Fallen Out is ranked at #56. The climb continues. This is so exciting! I am watching and learning. Thanks and good luck, Wayne!


I'm seeing it on the Top 100 page as #60. With a cool little arrow pointing UP.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I'm seeing it on the Top 100 page as #60. With a cool little arrow pointing UP.


I copy that... #60 at this time. What is this "little arrow" of which you speak?

Probably a dumb question, but since I don't get huge paperback sales myself: Does this ranking come as a result of paperback sales through CreateSpace?



> #1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures


Philip


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I'm hoping the next update will put me in the top 40 and with luck the top 20 by midnight. I won't be able to stay up for it. We're leaving tomorrow to spend a few days at the beach, in Charleston.


I admire your stoic detachment. If it were me, I wouldn't be able to resist staying up for the landing. It was 5 in the morning in England when Neil Armstrong stepped onto the lunar surface in 1969 and I was the only one of my circle of friends who stayed up all night to watch it.

Luckily, it's still morning here in Laos so I should be able to catch a successful landing of your high-flying book.

I feel like Walter Cronkite.

Philip


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Philip Gibson said:


> I copy that... #60 at this time. What is this "little arrow" of which you speak?
> 
> Probably a dumb question, but since I don't get huge paperback sales myself: Does this ranking come as a result of paperback sales through CreateSpace?
> 
> Philip


On the Top 100 Paid Kindle page, each book is marked with an arrow to show whether it's moving up or down in rank. This is Kindle only, so far I've only sold one paperback today.

Latest update has it at #53, with 2150 orders, 1313 completed transactions, and 46 borrows.

This beats my last BookBub ad, so I'm already elated. Last one peaked at #58 about 4 am the next day.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> On the Top 100 Paid Kindle page, each book is marked with an arrow to show whether it's moving up or down in rank.


I see it now. Thanks. Currently, the books immediately in front and behind yours are moving down so you are certainly guaranteed more upward momentum.

Philip


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## LJ (Feb 14, 2014)

Yay, Wayne!!! I am sending all good karma your way! This is awesome!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Latest update has it at #41 (first book on page 3 of the top 100 Paid Kindle) and climbing, with 2,268 orders, 1,619 completed transactions, and 50 borrows. Sell through to the other three titles are up considerably, also. About 80% higher than the previous month's average on all three. 

These numbers put it inside the top 20 and there's still five hours left in the day. Another 400 completed transactions before midnight Pacific time could mean a top 10, some time around 8 am my time. 

I'll be up about 6 to update again, before we leave for Charleston. In my book, this is a game changer. At least for me. No more ads after BookBub. My goal going forward is to do whatever I can to get the book into the top 1000 before the BookBub ad. Time will tell, but I think the tail on this ad will far surpass my previous ones. It's all about visibility.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

We copy you on the ground.



> #41 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
> #1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > War & Military


Next step - Page 2 of the top 100 paid.

Wonder why your sell-throughs have occurred so quickly.

Philip


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Just in case Wayne is sleeping, here is the latest:



> Amazon Best Sellers Rank: *#23 Paid in Kindle Store* (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
> #1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures
> #1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Action & Adventure
> #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > War & Military


Next step: Page 1 of the top 100 paid. Only 4 more places to get into that and then, one would expect, massive sales resulting from that massive visibility, quite apart from sales as a direct result of his ads.

Philip


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

Nice!


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## CristinaRayne (Apr 17, 2014)

Congrats Wayne!


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## jjfoxe (Apr 24, 2013)

7.23AM GMT - so 2.23 EST

I see it as #18 in the Bestsellers.

Awesome!


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

Yup, I see it, too on #18 with the little arrow, still pointing up 08:25 am MESZ (MiddleEuropeanSummerTime  ) you beat me to it, jjfoxe! 








But the best was, as I got to the kindle ebooks department *homepage*, Fallen Out, Fallen Pride and Fallen Hunter waved at me and shouted: buy me! Sorry folks, got you already.


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

9:13 a.m. CEST

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #15 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > War & Military
#1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures

Congrats, Wayne.


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

Phenomenal success Wayne! Let's get her to number 1!


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

Whooohooo! Go Wayne, go!


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## Nancy Warren (May 5, 2014)

WOO-HOOOO!! This has been so much fun to watch. Really exciting stuff.

You have changed my marketing plans around BB going forward dear Wayne. Oh, and for me, just being ranked so near Lee Child would be swoonworthy.

Enjoy the ride.

Nancy


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

As Jesse would say: Unbelievable!

Thanks everyone. What a ride. Good thing I don't sleep much, or I'd have missed it. While I predicted it and the math said it was doable, I still can't quite get my head around it. Oh, I know it's not going to last long. But, man! How cool is that?



Philip Gibson said:


> Wonder why your sell-throughs have occurred so quickly.


It's not really been all that fast. This started Wednesday night and Fallen Out is a short read, only 53K words. The sell through is from those who bought early on in the Countdown Deal. July's averages were Palm - 30, Hunter - 29, and Pride - 29. As of last night at 9 pm, when I record daily sales, it was Palm - 48, Hunter - 36, and Pride - 29. Since 9 pm, 25, 27, and 14, respectively.

Here's all the stats as of right now:
Dashboard orders - 2517
MTD unit sales - 2432
Borrows - 62
Sales have nearly caught up to orders. This might explain the middle of the night dumping some have experienced. After midnight Pacific, sales for the day are over and the calculations are handed off to a different computer maybe. That's what I'd do, if it were me. One computer handles running sales figures and a different one handling the closed receipts for the previous day.

Now, ranking. This is so cool. I have all the genre pages that it appears in open.

#13 in Books > Literature & Fiction
#6 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction
#1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure
#1 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Sea Adventures

#14 Paid in Kindle Store
#10 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction
#5 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction
#3 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Sea Adventures
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > War & Military
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Action & Adventure > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery

I hypothesized this based on what I learned right here on KBoards. Anyone new to this forum and seeing this, should dig deep into what's been posted on here. There's a vast well of knowledge to be found here. I noticed a few months ago that someone post how they had messed up and placed other ads on the wrong day, BEFORE their BookBub ad and got better than usual results. I started researching on here for others that made that same _mistake_ and found a few more. Last May, I did it intentionally, mostly to see how other ads worked on full price books and set one up every three days for two weeks before a BookBub ad. But, also to test a theory. My own results were much better than my previous BookBub ad where I'd done the same as everyone else and back loaded ads to prop the tail.

When Fallen Out was published it moved up the rankings to the top 2000 pretty fast, mostly on the tail of that other BookBub ad, as it was released the day before the ad. The higher visibility kept it around the 2000 mark and I saw an opportunity to see just how high a book could go, based on a higher than usual ranking. I spent a few dollars now and then during the last two months to keep it around #2000, then a few more dollars in late July to try to move it closer to #1000. I set up the Kindle Countdown Deal to start two days prior to BookBub and knowing that it would peter out after just one day, stacked five ads the day before BookBub.

While the results of one book aren't conclusive and I'd like to see a bunch of others in different genres do the same thing, I'm pretty sure this is true. The higher a book is before BookBub, the higher it will go because of BookBub. Also, and this will be born out over the next several weeks and maybe even months, the higher a book gets during a BookBub ad has more to do with how long the tail is, than placing other ads after it to prop the tail up. I have absolutely no promotions planned for this book. I'll go out on a limb and say that Fallen Out will stay in the top 1000 for at least a week and won't fall out of the top 2000 until summer is over.

Is this ride over? I'm not sure. I'd like to think it's not, based on the five hour lag of ranking over sales. Dare I dream of a Top 10?


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## Nancy Warren (May 5, 2014)

Wayne, I for one would love to try your method. My problem is that BB always rejects my 99 cent ads. I've only ever been accepted for free. I'm going to try for one when the third book of my romance series comes out. It won't be apples to apples because I will ask for free again so I don't get rejected and have to wait 30 days to try again. Oh, and those books aren't in Select, either, so no countdown. Never mind, I'll do my best to follow your path 

Congrats again, this has really been fun for the fans watching from home.

Nancy


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

We copied you down, Wayne. You had a bunch of guys about to turn blue here... we're breathing again... thanks a lot.


Philip


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Congratulations, Wayne! You've done an amazing job, and you've helped all of us. Thank you!


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Congratulations, what a fantastic week this has been for you!


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## 75910 (Mar 16, 2014)

Congratulations Wayne!  Awesome stuff.


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

It's still on the front page and pointing up! 

15.22 GMT+1


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Congrats! Great ride!


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## Simon Denman (Aug 2, 2014)

I once made the mistake of running a BookBub Freebie ad on the first day of a 3-day promo.
Had over 20,000 downloads on that day, but of course in spite of various ads on all the other free book promo sites I could find, the subsequent days yielded significantly less and as a result, Amazon's algorithms saw the negative trend and promptly dropped it like a hot potato. So although it was one of the biggest promos in terms of total downloads, it was my worst ever in terms of follow-on sales at full price after it had ended.

Since this, I've always tried to save BB or other big-audience ads until the last day and this seems to work much better. So what you've described here makes perfect sense to me. 

Great to have it confirmed though, and I'll definitely try a 99c ad next time. Thanks for all the detailed information - really helpful.


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## Ronny K (Aug 2, 2011)

Amazon Author Rank #65 Overall

Man, oh man. My little Wayne is all grown up!!! Super inspiring.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

17:03 GMT+1 and #24 Paid, although with an upwards green arrow.

Thanks for posting all this info Wayne - it's *really* interesting, and it's so cool to read about your success!


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## Randall Boleyn (Mar 8, 2012)

I've learned a lot watching you the past year, Wayne. You worked your butt off, thought the processes through, and did it the old-fashioned way- you earned it! Congrats


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## MorganKegan (Jan 10, 2013)

I think the "#1 Best Seller" badge on this is pretty cool:


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Hell of a ride, Wayne! Congrats. And thanks for sharing the details. With all the changes, it's nice to see that info again from a top seller!


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## PenIt (Mar 27, 2014)

I have been a lurker here for quite a while, but could not resist posting today.  Wayne, I have seen your rank on Amazon for your current book and as of 3:22 PM CST today your new book, Fallen Out is at # 29 in ALL of Amazon and # 1 in 3 sub genres - War and Military, Sea Adventures, and Mystery.  That is certainly impressive and congratulations to you for that!.  

Now, the reason for my post?  Have you noticed that YOU, Wayne are currently #68 in the top 100 Authors on all of Amazon?  Congratulations to you on your new successful career that you began just over a year old. 

Also, a sincere Thank You for motivating the rest of us to give it all we've got and never give up


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you for sharing your observations, Wayne. Very good info. I'm forever thankful to people like you who share great information like this.

Congratulations on a fantastic promo!


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Wayne,

I might have missed it on this long thread--How many days are you keeping your price at .99 cents?


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

Wayne--had a thought. 

Since you've managed a top 100 rank for all authors on Amazon--think it's 78 right now--what could you have managed to do with overall author rank had you done a one or two day blitz where the whole series is at .99 cents?

I am planning to work some magic with my next BB ad on the 15th of August. And the thing is, mine is for the second book in my series. 

I am toying with the idea of running the whole trilogy at .99 cents for three days. I know I've read on here in the past that BB will mention for authors (if they request) that a discount is being run on all books in the series. A kind of pull-the-trigger-now on the whole series blurb to their mailing list. 

I know this would mean a lot less in total revenue. Sell-through counts for a lot, especially in your situation where you're selling at 3.99 per book on the others in the series (not to mention you've got 4 in the series--I believe--as opposed to 3). The trade-off in overall author rank might be nowhere near worth it. But I'm wondering--could you have made top 20 overall authors you think with that sort of sales blitz? Either way I am taking cues from you. I normally just let BB do its thing. This time, I'm booking up some other ads too. 

So far I'm doing BB on book 2 and a number of other bookings for book 1.


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## Maia Sepp Ross (May 10, 2013)

Way to go, Wayne! And a big thanks for all the info.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks for all the kind words, y'all. We just arrived in Charleston and will be here for a couple of days, for our oldest daughter's baby shower. This will be our 4th grandbaby and second grandson. 

I'll try to answer all your questions here in one post, but the third floor pool, overlooking Charleston Harbor and a cold rum drink beckon.



PenIt said:


> I have been a lurker here for quite a while, but could not resist posting today. Wayne, I have seen your rank on Amazon for your current book and as of 3:22 PM CST today your new book, Fallen Out is at # 29 in ALL of Amazon and # 1 in 3 sub genres - War and Military, Sea Adventures, and Mystery. That is certainly impressive and congratulations to you for that!.
> 
> Now, the reason for my post? Have you noticed that YOU, Wayne are currently #68 in the top 100 Authors on all of Amazon? Congratulations to you on your new successful career that you began just over a year old.
> 
> Also, a sincere Thank You for motivating the rest of us to give it all we've got and never give up


I'm honored you came out of the shadows here on my post, PenIt. Yes, and I was at #65 early this morning. Very humbling considering the company we all keep.



Marian said:


> Wayne,
> 
> I might have missed it on this long thread--How many days are you keeping your price at .99 cents?


It's at $.99 until Monday night. In hindsight, I think next time I'll leave run the Kindle Countdown Deal two days before and only one day after BookBub. Fallen Out sold hundreds today from the exposure and would likely have sold that many at regular price.



Joseph Turkot said:


> Wayne--had a thought.
> 
> Since you've managed a top 100 rank for all authors on Amazon--think it's 78 right now--what could you have managed to do with overall author rank had you done a one or two day blitz where the whole series is at .99 cents?


I considered doing just that with Fallen Palm, Joseph and am kicking myself for not following through on my instinct. Sell through is already in the hundreds and could be in the thousands at $.99. 
[/quote]

More later. Sailor Jerry is calling......


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Quite a run, Wayne!


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Thank you for sharing all this! Congratulations and keep on writing!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

This will be my last update until Fallen Out falls out (see what I did there?) of the top 100 or next Friday, whichever comes first. 

It's fallen to #65 now, but the rate of fall has decreased. I'm still hoping to stay in the top 100 for a while longer. More importantly, it's at #6 in Action Adventure and #2 in Mystery, Thriller, & Suspense. It would have to drop to #110  or #370 to be out of the top 10 of each of those genres, respectively.

The ad was just over 48 hours ago. Since then, I've sold 3244 copies of Fallen Out just in the US, where I normally sell 120 in that time. Sell through has resulted in 153 sales of Fallen Palm, 121 sales of Fallen Hunter, and 97 sales of Fallen Pride, where these would normally have sold 60 each in that time. Total revenue over average is at $3120, not counting borrows or paperbacks, both of which are up a lot. Cost of the ad was $300, so the ROI is more than 1000%, again, not counting borrows or paperbacks.

That ROI is nearly double my last BookBub ad after 48 hours.

Now, back to the pool and another rum drink. The girls are at a baby shower, then we're meeting our son at the beach.


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

That's excellent, Wayne. The rum sounds good too.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

What goes up, must come down. But, I'd hoped it would stay in the Top 100 a while longer. At 1:30 this morning, it dropped to #101 and then #125 at 4:30. It seems to be holding fairly steady in the 125-130 range, currently at #128. In the main two genres, it's #11 in Action/Adventure and #5 in Mysteries, Thrillers & Suspense. It'll go back to regular price tonight. Today's sales have already surpassed the average revenue for July at full price. Next weekend, I'll have a better idea of what the tail is going to look like and will post a graph then.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

You had no further ads after the Bookbub one, right?

Maybe consider some descent engines/parachutes (smaller promo sites) to slow down the descent post Bookbub for a softer landing with your next experiment.


Philip


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Philip Gibson said:


> You had no further ads after the Bookbub one, right?
> 
> Maybe consider some descent engines/parachutes (smaller promo sites) to slow down the descent post Bookbub for a softer landing with your next experiment.
> 
> Philip


First BB ad had no promos before or after it. The second one had several promos before and after it. This one had the Countdown Deal start two days before the ad and all the promos one day before. I'll have to wait at least a week to see how this tail goes, but with the next one I already have a couple of ideas. The Countdown Deal will start three days before, but will only run for one day after. That will put it in the higher ranks at regular price. Those searching the rankings for a new read won't know it was on sale the day before and it could increase revenue a lot. Also, on the last one, I ran a Countdown Deal on one other book and launched Fallen Out the same day at $.99. If possible I'll repeat that and run Countdown Deals on all titles.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Wayne, could your book work in the mystery/thrillers category too? Theoretically, with 1.5 million on that list, you could possibly double your results.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

PamelaKelley said:


> Wayne, could your book work in the mystery/thrillers category too? Theoretically, with 1.5 million on that list, you could possibly double your results.


They fit nicely there. I've only been waiting for my income to rise enough to afford it. My next ad will be for Fallen Pride, in mystery/thriller at $1.99 (currently $3.99 with half the profit going to Wounded Warrior Project). Already planning to release my next book around it. I'll submit it the beginning of next month, for an early October ad.


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## nico (Jan 17, 2013)

Wayne,

You're truly an inspiration. We're planning our next launch right now—book 3 in our novel series—so fingers crossed that 'Bub will have us. Never tried using them before!

Thanks again for all the amazing details and congrats on the success...in writing and life.


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## AJStewart (May 10, 2014)

Wayne
I've been away from the boards actually writing for the last couple days, but I wanted to add my voice to the chorus of thanks for sharing this info in so much detail. It's both intimidating and encouraging at the same time. Well done on your results.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

This is exactly what sell through should look like after a BookBub ad. Fallen Out was in the ad and now all four are ranked in series order at the top of Sea Adventures. I anticipate the other three swapping positions during the next week or so, but this was too cool to not capture.










Before the ad, the other three were averaging 29 to 30 sales per day each, very consistently. Over the last week since the ad, Fallen Palm has averaged 65, Fallen Hunter 52, and Fallen Pride 42 per day.

Fallen Out has dropped to #552 now and has been at full price since Monday night. Total sales of all four books since the ad on 8/1 are now at 5696. Some time early last Saturday, my total book sales went over the 25,000 mark and I didn't even notice it. I hit both the 15K and 20K mark last month. If sales suddenly dropped to what they were before the ad, I'll pass the 30K mark in two weeks.


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## Anthony M.C. (Jul 31, 2014)

Looks like a great success. I noticed you went from ~50 to ~70 reviews on Fallen Out as well. Great job on building such a strong series of books. I'd consider that a valuable milestone to have under your belt.


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## sunnywriter (Aug 7, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


>


Great results. Reminds me of when a country's athletes sweep gold, silver, and bronze in a single event at the Olympics. Thank you for sharing the sequential promo-chaining idea in the original post. I wonder what the results might be for a permafree work. Getting (hopefully) massive amounts of readers through the multiple ads and their effects on the charts to spike a mailing list's growth, perhaps.


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## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

Hi Wayne! Congratulations - this was exciting to watch and is a very convincing experiment. It was enough to convince me! 

Since you said that you were interested to see how it would work for others, I wanted to pop in and let you know what my promotion plan for August will be. I have a .99 non-fiction listing on Bookbub for August 22nd.

Two notable differences being: 
1) This is a non-fiction book.
2) It is a stand alone book. 

Here is my promotion schedule: 

The Fussy Librarian - August 18th
Fkbooksandtips - August 19th
Bknights on Fiverr - August 19th
Choosy Bookworm - August 19th
Bargain Ebook Hunter - August 19th & 20th
Ebooksoda - August 20th
Awesomengang - August 20th & 21st 
Bargainbooksy - August 21st
Ereander News Today (ENT) -  August 21st
Bookbub - August 22nd
Kindle Fire Department/Booksends - August 23rd
Bookgoodies - The whole week

Pixel of Ink - submitted (no goat sacrificed in the name of saving animals so this will work against me  )
Books on the Knob - submitted (no response)
Ereaderbuddy.com - submitted (no response)

I can keep you posted on my final stats if you'd like.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Absolutely, Tricia. That's a strong lineup. Is your price being reduced through a Kindle Countdown Deal?


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## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Absolutely, Tricia. That's a strong lineup. Is your price being reduced through a Kindle Countdown Deal?


It is not, I will be setting it to $.99 for two weeks straight.

A little history here - the last time I did this in February, I only had ENT and FKBooksandtips with the promotion. And, I scheduled those on the same day. The God's smiled upon me that day as I ended selling close to 2,000 copies on Amazon. The more amazing thing? B&N kept me on their front page under their great reads for under $1 section and I made close to $3,000 in a week from that exposure. The result? #23 on the NY Times Ebook Bestsellers list.

So, based on that, I have kept my book available on all channels though I have been tempted to pop it back into KDP.

(and it was a cold, sad day when B&N bounced me off of their front page. Sales came to a screeching halt and then tapered back into a nice elevated level for a few more weeks).


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

It's now been two weeks since the ad and at 8:30 this morning, Fallen Out fell below the #1000 mark for the first time. It's rallied back to #942 now, but will likely continue to drop. It did stay in the top 1000 for a week longer than I figured it would, though.

Total sales (including borrows) of Fallen Out as of right now is at 4,468, with 2,496 on the day of the ad. Sell through to the other three books has been tremendous. Fallen Palm has sold 776, Fallen Hunter 684, and Fallen Pride 579, where each had sold 390, 362, and 377, respectively, for the two weeks before the ad.

Leaving out the day of the ad, here's what the two weeks before the ad and the two weeks after the ad look like. Both graphs are for all books.



















July's total revenue for Kindle sales was $13,195. Currently, August sales are already at $12,208. I should pass July sales late on the 15th, or early on the 16th. This has by far been my best BookBub results and I plan to do exactly the same next time and hope to plan that around the launch of Fallen Mangrove in early October.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Wow! That's an unbelievable run. Thanks for sharing, Wayne!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

We all know BookBub sells books and the huge numbers are really great to see. But, using front loaded ads, how long does the tail last? That's the real question. So, this will be my last update on this thread.

First, just a reminder of the day of the ad and the days immediately following. On the day of the ad, 8/1/14, I sold 2645 total books, of which 2,496 were the book in the ad, Fallen Out. The following day, I sold 786 books, 621 were the book in the ad. On 8/3, I sold 568 total and 382 were the book in the ad. From 8/4 to today, it's bounced up and down in a slow drop, but only fell below 150 sales across all four titles this weekend. Holiday weekends are terrible. Still, sales of the book in the ad were higher for the last four days than they were almost any day in July, so realistically, the tail isn't over yet.

From 7/1 to 7/29 (the day before the Kindle Countdown Deal started), sales of the book in the ad ranged from 50 to 125, averaging 63.9 per day. 

From 8/4 (when sales dropped considerably after the BookBub ad) to 8/29, sales of the book in the ad ranged from 60 to 160, averaging 73 per day.

Now, we jump ahead to today. I've had 11,309 total sales to date across all four titles, 5323 (almost half) were the book in the ad. Sell through to the other books in the series has been phenomenal. Contrasted to July's 6,283 total books, August has been a he11 of a ride. Total income so far this month is WAY more than I ever dreamed was possible, over $20,400 just from Kindle sales. 

Things I'll do different next time: 
1) Set up Countdown Deals for the other books, for two days only, the day of the ad and the following day.
2) Set up at least three smaller promos after BB.
3) Set the Countdown Deal for the book in the ad to end the day after the ad to reap the income from those visibility sales.

I'll be applying with Fallen Pride in a couple of weeks, to try to get a BB date early in October, when my fifth book, Fallen Mangrove is due out.

Thanks everyone for all your sage input and thanks for all the intel I've been able to glean from these boards. This is without a doubt the BEST source for self-publishing marketing ideas anywhere.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Thank YOU for sharing all your stats with us. I'm glad August was so fruitful for you. Hopefully, it portends future growth for your writing as you continue to publish.


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