# Do authors lose money by having their books in libraries?



## sixnsolid (Mar 13, 2009)

I've been contemplating some of the discussions in the media about ebooks vs DTB's and the financial ramifications of each media. I know there are some smart KBers who have examined these issues far more in depth that I have, so please indulge my ignorance...

If authors lose money on ebooks don't they also lose money on library books? Are library editions more expensive (remember, I'm ignorant here) to offset the profit loss? Is it okay to lose money on library books because libraries are good things? Are library sales so minimum in the big picture it doesn't really matter? Please school me....

These are the things I ponder after night two of no sleep with high fever/summer virus/seizure precaution kiddo, forgive my loopiness


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## Shandril19 (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm not a library expert, but here's what I've gathered from what I've read.

Library systems generally buy books at the bulk list price, which may be more than a "retail" price due to retailer discounting, but is not a drastically increased price to cover lost revenues.

As to whether authors/publishers lose money overall through libraries, it's a mixed jury and there are a lot of factors.  Publishers don't get paid (in the US anyway - some other countries actually do pay out royalties based on circulation rates) for circulation of library copies, but some library reads turn into purchases by someone who liked it, or recommended it to friends who bought it, or suggested it for book club selections, etc.  Or it may translate into a purchase of another book by the author, etc.

Another factor is that libraries are more steady purchasers than the popular public.  They purchase copies of books/authors that never made a bestseller list.  So while a publisher may "lose" money on a bestseller library sell, they "make" money where the rest of the distribution is a loss (bookstores that send back unpurchased copies, etc).  So it helps even out the publishers catalog.


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## Carld (Dec 2, 2009)

As Shandril19 says it seems to be a mixed bag. I don't think every library withdrawal equates to a lost sale (that's RIAA logic), but there's probably some loss. However, libraries also act as free advertising. I can't even count the number of authors I've discovered browsing the library shelves over the years and that I've gone on to buy. Also a lot of what's in the library is older stuff that, until the advent of online ordering, you couldn't buy anyway since your local bookstore didn't carry anything but the latest hot sellers and a few classics.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Ask your librarian how much it would cost to replace a lost book. I think you will be surprised by how much more expensive the books are. Libraries pay more, mainly because the book is going to be loaned out.


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## pacificd (Apr 24, 2010)

Writing does not make money....PERIOD

no one should write for money. Unless of course you are Sarah Palin.

I know proffs who have books used all over the county and they only clear and extra 10-20k a year from those.

I say free content up


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Do not assume that a person would buy a book that is not available at the library. Chances are they will just borrow another book that _is_ available.

I don't believe that libraries pay more for books. I have had to replace two library books; one that my dog chewed up, and another that my husband left on a plane. I did not have to pay list price for either, but there was a $5 fee for both for their processing costs.


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

I've certainly never thought of them that way. In fact, when I sometimes see that my book is listed in a library somewhere (some have online catalogues and it will show up in a search or something), it gives me a thrill. I just think that there are people out there reading and enjoying it. And that someone thought it was worth buying for or donating to a library.

I'm a heavy user of libraries … they're wonderful places, paid for by our tax dollars, that allow everyone to enjoy reading, whether you can afford $26 hardcovers or not. I'm proud to have my books there.

As for whether you lose sales or not, all I know is that if you took a list of the Top 500 best-selling authors, it's a fair bet that every single one of them has books in most libraries in the country. So, I'd rather be a part of that list.


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## Melonhead (Jan 1, 2010)

Libraries buy most books at a discount, ours are 33 to 40% for popular titles, much less for reference books or obscure/foreign titles. The extra cost to replace lost items is for the processing, cataloging and staff time to order and process a book.

Lost books cost a lot in staff time to replace, which is why the fees are charged. When your librarian tells you they'd rather have the book back than the money (list price plus a fee) _believe him!_.

Most authors we've met at libraries, bookstores and library conferences are happy to have their books in libraries. Most folks who use libraries wouldn't buy the book anyway, but if they read it and like it they can recommend it to others and spread the buzz. You know, the more it's seen, the more it will be seen, and all that.

Anything that promotes books and reading is all good!

Ellen


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

For publishers and non-successful authors it's probably a good thing since libraries by books that wouldn't sell that many copies to consumers.

For successful authors, I'm sure they probably lose some potential sales as I'm sure a decent number of people who read say John Grisham's latest book from the library would have bought a copy if that was the only way to read it.

But for obscure titles, libraries are probably a saving grace as they buy books that would have sold very limited numbers to the public I'd think.


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

In Australia, we have a central governing body called "Public Lending Rights" and "Electronic Lending Rights".  You need to register your books first.  They calculate the number of books that would be in libraries, based on your sales figures.  And authors get a percentage of that.  Guesstimates all round I reckon. The publisher also registers and they get a percentage too.


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## roderpol (Jun 15, 2010)

Will there ever be digital libraries where you can loan an e-book? It seems technologically feaseable, at least with a closed system like the kindle...


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## Pirate (Jul 5, 2009)

pacificd said:


> Writing does not make money....PERIOD
> 
> no one should write for money. Unless of course you are Sarah Palin.
> .....
> ...


Lots of people write books for profit, besides Sarah Palin.

Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
Barach Obama
Al Gore
George Stephanopoulos
James Carville

Just to name a few.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

roderpol said:


> Will there ever be digital libraries where you can loan an e-book? It seems technologically feaseable, at least with a closed system like the kindle...


Some libraries already have e-books. They're generally in epub format, so only readable on devices that support that format. There was in the past some way to get them on Kindles, but it required a lot of work so I never tried it.

Also the Nook has an e-book lending feature built in as well.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

I think something to consider here is not the money potentially lost by having books in the library, but the worth of the extra exposure.  Sure, a few people will read your book for free from the library, but those people will talk to other people who talk to other people.  Anything that gets your work out there and read by someone is worth it (except for perhaps online piracy which is just too easy and can reach far too many people).  It takes little steps to become big enough that you can make a living out of it, and I believe libraries are an integral part of that.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Scheherazade said:



> (except for perhaps online piracy which is just too easy and can reach far too many people).


Yep, as well as the pirates getting to keep a copy of it rather than just borrow it. If you want to own something you have to buy it or receive it as a gift from someone who bought it.


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## Joel Arnold (May 3, 2010)

My thought on libraries is simply this:

Libraries promote reading. As a writer, I want a population that reads.

Joel Arnold


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2010)

sixnsolid said:


> I've been contemplating some of the discussions in the media about ebooks vs DTB's and the financial ramifications of each media. I know there are some smart KBers who have examined these issues far more in depth that I have, so please indulge my ignorance...
> 
> If authors lose money on ebooks don't they also lose money on library books? Are library editions more expensive (remember, I'm ignorant here) to offset the profit loss? Is it okay to lose money on library books because libraries are good things? Are library sales so minimum in the big picture it doesn't really matter? Please school me....
> 
> These are the things I ponder after night two of no sleep with high fever/summer virus/seizure precaution kiddo, forgive my loopiness


Libraries are one of the largest markets for books, and for many specialized subject one of the only markets. Your question takes a micromanagement approach to sales, assuming each sale must generate X revenue. In truth, a long-term marketing plan realizes some sales will be "loss leaders" sold below premium for a long-term objective.

While libraries don't pay retail, they also generally only buy hardcovers, and hardcover books have larger mark-ups than paperbacks. So authors actually see a larger net royalty on hardcovers than on paperbacks or digital products.

Of course, the discussion about libraries is mute for most self-publishers, as marketing to libraries takes an enormous amount of time, effort, and resources. For the traditional mass market publisher, libraries are an important market. But for the self-publisher, you are mostly targeting direct consumers. if you happen to end up in some libraries, it equates to a bit of credibility, but not really a market I would chase.


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## ReginaLovesHer Kindle (Nov 30, 2009)

roderpol said:


> Will there ever be digital libraries where you can loan an e-book? It seems technologically feaseable, at least with a closed system like the kindle...


Check out www.overdrive.com and see if your library has this capabilty.


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## D. Nathan Hilliard (Jun 5, 2010)

I honestly can't imagine a book being checked out at a library being the cause of a lost sale. I can only see it as welcome exposure. Besides, as a writer my main objective is to get read...period. If that happens at a library, that's fantastic.


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## ReginaLovesHer Kindle (Nov 30, 2009)

I do not think they lose money in the big picture.  Libraries can introduce readers to authors they might not be willing to buy, but are willing to read.  Readers may be willing to purchase the next book written by that author if they have fallen in love with their writing style -- I know I have had this happen to me before.  And for all of the other reasons mentioned above.

Additionally, I think there is a bigger picture beyond the profits of a writer in terms of what benefits a library brings to a community.  Every time I go to the library I see people I know -- people I might not run in to otherwise.  Libraries and the gather place they provide, are such an important resource to have.  They bring communities together, provide a place to do research, gather and keep knowledge, a place to connect to the internet, listen to music and watch movies.  Many people have a desire to read beyond the ability to purchase every new book.  I think you can tell alot about a community by examining its library system.  I have read over 90 books this year, there is no way I could afford to buy all of those books.  I have 4 kids, 2 voracious readers (the other two are too young to read, but love being read to) -- thank you to the library we can go weekly (sometimes more often as we live a block away) and check out numerous books.  And browsing through the stacks I can see my kids' excitement and love for reading go.  I love libraries.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

I have actually read books from the library, then gone out and bought my own copies because I loved them so much. But basically, I'm with Joel -- libraries promote the habit of reading, and that can only help writers.


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## s0nicfreak (Jun 10, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> Ask your librarian how much it would cost to replace a lost book. I think you will be surprised by how much more expensive the books are. Libraries pay more, mainly because the book is going to be loaned out.


Uh, I'm pretty sure she will tell you the price you would have to pay, not the price the library would have to pay.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

I've worked in a library--libraries generally pay about 40 percent off list.  Sometimes they can get a better discount.  So basically they pay what a bookstore is paying.  

If you lose the book, you'll pay list plus fees (that pay for all the hoopla we had to do to take a book out of the system.)  The library may or may not choose to use the money to replace that title.  Often, they would use the money to get a different book.  This is why you cannot 'replace' the book yourself.  

That said, most library users are both book buyers and library users.  If they can't afford books, authors certainly aren't losing anything to the library reader.  The library does BUY the book so the author gets at least one sale.  Libraries give authors exposure.  Authors can do signings at libraries, give talks (some libraries pay authors to do so) and can also ask local librarians for special shelf placement.  

I've written a couple of articles on my blog the subject if anyone is really interested. 

Maria


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

One more thing--never, ever lose an audio book from a library.  Those things have a list price that is sometimes near 70 dollars. In my library where I worked, you would have paid 70 (list) plus 7 dollars processing fee, PLUS any late fees while you looked for said audio book.  Late fees on audio??  A buck a day...

That 7 dollar processing fee applied to ANY book, no matter the cost.  So a hardback lost or damaged would cost you 25 plus 7, plus late fees.  And if you're thinking of just turning in that book that you accidentally dropped in the mud and kicked around...we had to inspect every single book that came in.  If it were damaged, there was at least a charge for the damage (sometimes 50 cents for a torn page and sometimes the book price plus that ole fee if the damage was considered bad enough.)   

Libraries don't actually make money, but they do try very hard to take care of the books...


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## ReginaLovesHer Kindle (Nov 30, 2009)

That is why I love the overdrive.com component of my library -- audio downloads are so much easier.


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