# Osama bin Laden is dead



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

President Obama is making an announcement.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Wolf Blitzer needs a vacation, he just said 

"The body that was killed was in fact Osama bin Laden"


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## mom133d (aka Liz) (Nov 25, 2008)

And the President has yet to make the official announcement. Why does he need to if the reporters are playing his hand? I kinda hope he announces something else.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

He'll probably announce the details, just to confirm them.  You know how easily the different news sources can disagree on the factual details...


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

The NY Times web site has a live feed that should start in about 25 minutes:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/live-video-of-president-obamas-address/


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## Mollyb52 (Jan 4, 2009)

Hell has a new resident.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

And here's CNN's:

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3&hpt=C1


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

Mollyb52 said:


> Hell has a new resident.


Well, it would if it existed, that is...


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

The president has to craft a message so that he can take credit for this, without making the doves mad.

Just sayin.....


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

mom133d said:


> And the President has yet to make the official announcement. Why does he need to if the reporters are playing his hand? I kinda hope he announces something else.


The exact wording is important to help this be as well-received as possible abroad, especially in the Arab world. Now that the news has leaked, they are no longer rushed and can take time to fine-tune things. With the revolutions in the Arabworld, and allegations we have tried to assassinate Khadafi deliberately, this is delicate.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

CNN.com finally got a story up: (lots of background here for those who may be too young to have followed the news ten years ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/01/bin.laden.obit/index.html?hpt=T1


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

News reports say Osma Bin Laden has been killed in Pakistan


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

But of course NATO has tried to kill Khadafi.
The biggest issue is to finesse the binLaden death so that he does not cause more problems as a dead martyr than a live leader-in-hiding.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I just read that this happened a week ago? Makes sense. They had to confirm the DNA.


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## Cindy416 (May 2, 2009)

Woohoo!!!


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Obama just said that he had authorized the operation TODAY.  News sources said it happened a week ago, and that they needed that time for DNA identification.     What's the scoop?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Obama just said that he had authorized the operation TODAY. News sources said it happened a week ago, and that they needed that time for DNA identification.   What's the scoop?


I noticed that too. We'll have to wait for the news people to catch up now.


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## jonathanmoeller (Apr 19, 2011)

Holy CRAP!

If this is true, it's astonishing. I honestly thought bin Laden would die in his bed of old age.


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## CaedemMarquez (Mar 23, 2011)

As you may or may not have heard by now, Osama Bin Laden is dead. The reports that I have heard are that he is dead because of a bomb. He has been dead about a week but the news was only released today because the DNA report came in confirming it was him. Lastly, his body is apprently in the custody of the United States.

Update: Reports are now that he was killed today in a fire fight in Islamabad, Pakistan. The earlier radio report I heard was wrong.

So if you desire, post how you feel with a poem or a sentence.

_You took ours.
We took you.

We are still standing.
You are not._

Nothing groundbreaking but a bit cathartic.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Or in his cave, anyway.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Or in his cave, anyway.


Turns out - he was in a mansion just outside of Islamabad.


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## kdawna (Feb 16, 2009)

My son called to tell me, he had served in Iraq so he is thrilled!


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## Hayden Duvall (Mar 24, 2011)

I wish they could have captured him alive.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Hayden Duvall said:


> I wish they could have captured him alive.


Just curious -- is that because you think it was wrong to kill him, or because you think something could have been gained by having him in jail, and if the latter, what?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Hayden Duvall said:


> I wish they could have captured him alive.


His trial would have been a nightmare.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

If he had been captured - there would have been a jurisdictional issue - who should try him?
And who knows if he would "slip away".  Many in the country he was staying in were his supporters.
This is best.


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## spotsmom (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm glad he wasn't taken alive.  Then he might have had a civilized death...

Wonder if the 72 virgins turned out to be men.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Let's take a moment to honor and remember all those that bin Laden killed and to thank all those who've given so much to bring bin Laden to justice.


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## kaotickitten (Jan 9, 2011)

Hayden Duvall said:


> I wish they could have captured him alive.


While Pakistan says it helped us (yeah right sorry don't believe that). I highly doubt they would have let us carry him out quietly or judiciously. Too many supports of his over there. He would never have seen the inside of a court room. So this is justice for the families of 9/11.

Oh and there is a hell and he will spend eternity there, Mollyb.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Jeff said:


> Let's take a moment to honor and remember all those that bin Laden killed and to thank all those who've given so much to bring bin Laden to justice.


Amen.


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

Jeff said:


> Let's take a moment to honor and remember all those that bin Laden killed and to thank all those who've given so much to bring bin Laden to justice.


Well said.

About Obama's statement, I noticed the time difference too. Maybe it will be clearer tomorrow. A week ago was Easter Sunday.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

KathyCarmichael said:


> About Obama's statement, I noticed the time difference too. Maybe it will be clearer tomorrow. A week ago was Easter Sunday.


My son suggested that the speech may have been written a week ago, held pending DNA matching, then delivered tonight without updating the teleprompter.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

Everyone woke up when dad announced it at our home. Watching news.


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## tecwritr (Oct 28, 2008)

It happened today.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Jeff said:


> Let's take a moment to honor and remember all those that bin Laden killed and to thank all those who've given so much to bring bin Laden to justice.


Amen.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

tecwritr said:


> It happened today.


How can you be so sure? Some news sources are saying it was today, while others say it was last week.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Jeff said:


> Let's take a moment to honor and remember all those that bin Laden killed and to thank all those who've given so much to bring bin Laden to justice.


Many people have worked hard for ten years for this, giving a great deal of their time and energies. Alas, as Geoff pointed out in chat, their work continues.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Jeff said:


> My son suggested that the speech may have been written a week ago, held pending DNA matching, then delivered tonight without updating the teleprompter.


That makes sense. And they would not have known a week ago that the DNA match would take an entire week (surprising actually that it did).


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

[quote author=Reuters]The United States believes that three adults besides Osama bin Laden were killed in *Sunday's raid* in Pakistan and that one of the dead was an adult son of bin Laden, a senior Obama administration official said.[/quote]

I'm going to stop reading news stories until tomorrow.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

And it doesn't say _which_ Sunday?

Maybe by tomorrow the various news outlets will have things sorted out....


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

Gotcha.   Well done troops and special ops that were involved. From the American people, thank you.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

Well that's just made my year, let alone my day! Good going troops.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

If it did happen last week then withholding that information could have also been a security measure.  Can you imagine how much terror could have been wrought at the royal wedding with all those people in one place?  Not to mention, it would have really overshadowed the happy event.


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## Joshua Rigley (Mar 19, 2011)

People are celebrating in the streets, screaming "USA! USA!" and waving American flags. If this is how good we feel over the death of Osama Bin Laden, I can't even imagine how happy the world was to hear of the death of Hitler and the end of WWII.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm glad the guy didn't  die of old age, and it was our guys that had a hand in it.  He got what he wanted (martyrdom).  I'm very proud of our military soldiers.  But this does not give me any sense of completion.  This is going to be a long fight, and not just on the battlefield and in the  secret services, but also in the courts and in politics, society.  These people have the long view.  Americans need to look at this the same way.


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## Rex Jameson (Mar 8, 2011)

I knew this bottle of Jack Daniels would come in handy. I watched the President's speech earlier. It was pretty wild watching the celebrations in Times Square and in front of the White House.


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

I made a post on it on my blog entitled, "Harry Truman Wins World War II". I thought the title was fitting. For those who can't be bothered to visit a link, the entirety is posted here:



> *Harry Truman Wins World War II!*
> 
> I usually don't post anything overly political on here as I try to maintain a sense of goodwill toward everyone; however, the recent events have propelled me to speak my mind (oh dear...). Osama bin Laden is dead, and that is good, but is everyone treating it as a Harry Truman moment?
> 
> ...


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

I'm just sorry it took ten years to give him this message:


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

Goodness, I thought this thread would have been fifty pages long by now.  I guess it is nightime.  It is daylight here in Australia and the media has been going haywire.  He couldnt have been taken alive, but as a young 25 year old friend of ours is serving in Afghanistan at the moment, we are concerned about retaliation.  But I am pleased he is gone.


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## Val2 (Mar 9, 2011)

News here in Spain is that he's already been buried at sea, so no grave to dig up or place for a shrine to be built.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

it was nine pm when it hit the west coast so. most of america had settled down for the night


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

The speech started at 11:35 pm EDT, my husband couldn't stay up any longer...he missed it by five minutes...

http://nyti.ms/j70kVC article with more details.

Betsy


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

I remember when 9/11 happened we had just gone to bed; it was 10.30 pm.  Hubby was listening to the radio, and he heard that a plane had hit the Tower.  He got up and turned to CNN and after 10 minutes got me up. We couldn't believe what we were watching, and what might happen next.  At 4.30 am we went to bed but not to sleep.  We knew the world had changed forever.  The first visions did not censor anything.  Later, certain film clips were removed for obvious reasons. I think this will be another one of those times when people remember exactly what they were doing when they heard the news.


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## Philip Chen (Aug 8, 2010)

I surely hope that our country and the world do not let their guard down.  Killing bin Laden may have cathartic value, but it does not mean that terrorism has ended.  The root causes of this enmity are deep and pervasive, terrorists like bin Laden merely exploited this enmity for their own purposes.  The funny thing is that bin Laden and his ilk have killed as many, if not more, true followers of Islam than their avowed enemy: westerners.


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## micki (Oct 8, 2010)

Susan in VA said:


> Obama just said that he had authorized the operation TODAY. News sources said it happened a week ago, and that they needed that time for DNA identification.   What's the scoop?


I reckon so it didn't dampen the Royal Wedding. However, that said. Mugarbe in Zimbabwe has killed hundreds and thousands of his own people, far more than Bin Laden and yet he is invited to the Pope's beautification - now that is sick


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

God bless our troops and their Commander in Chief.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Mehryinett (Feb 19, 2011)

There's a very good piece about the current state of Al Qaeda in this blog, republished from a magazine called Foreign Affairs: http://allthingscounterterrorism.com/foreign-affairs-article-how-al-qaeda-works/


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

mickip said:


> yet he is invited to the Pope's beautification - now that is sick


I have long given up understanding that particular element of our world. As for letting guards down, of course they won't do that, Bin Laden was a figurehead but not the mastermind in recent years. And I think the delay, perhaps even the reason why there was no honeymoon, was because of the announcement today. There was no mention of having to return to work so quickly, and he could have been granted leave, but that became the reason/excuse for no travel.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

They are reporting this morning that Bin Laden's son and two women who were being used as shields were also killed. 

I think burying him at sea was an excellent idea. No body, no memorial, no gathering place. DNA testing is still going on.

The credit goes to the CIA operatives who risked their lives to find him and the Navy Seals who risked their lives to get him with minimal loss of life.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Joshua Rigley said:


> People are celebrating in the streets, screaming "USA! USA!" and waving American flags.


Quite honestly (and no offense intended to anyone), this gives me a chill, and not in a good way. I understand that this is a major step in the fight against terrorism, and that achieving this step has cathartic value for many, and perhaps even brings a sense of closure to those immediately affected by terrorist attacks. And I respect the hard work of those who worked so long to help bring this about, and those who went in and did the job. But street scenes of joy and screaming are just too reminiscent of all the crowds we've seen chanting anti-West slogans and burning U.S. flags. This is not a soccer game. This is not a playground retaliation game. A person responsible for the death of thousands was killed -- this is justice and this is a necessary step in making the world a safer place, but is it really cause for public displays of _gleeful joy?_ Haven't civilized nations evolved beyond that?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> I think burying him at sea was an excellent idea. No body, no memorial, no gathering place. DNA testing is still going on.
> 
> The credit goes to the CIA operatives who risked their lives to find him and the Navy Seals who risked their lives to get him with minimal loss of life.


Agreed. I'm sure a huge amount of planning and preparation must have gone into this, and they all deserve the credit.


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## Tippy (Dec 8, 2008)

In memory of all his victims across the world.  We must also keep our service men and women in our prayers.  I fear things will be very tense for quite awhile.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Quite honestly (and no offense intended to anyone), this gives me a chill, and not in a good way. I understand that this is a major step in the fight against terrorism, and that achieving this step has cathartic value for many, and perhaps even brings a sense of closure to those immediately affected by terrorist attacks. And I respect the hard work of those who worked so long to help bring this about, and those who went in and did the job. But street scenes of joy and screaming are just too reminiscent of all the crowds we've seen chanting anti-West slogans and burning U.S. flags. This is not a soccer game. This is not a playground retaliation game. A person responsible for the death of thousands was killed -- this is justice and this is a necessary step in making the world a safer place, but is it really cause for public displays of _gleeful joy?_ Haven't civilized nations evolved beyond that?


It makes me uncomfortable as well.

However, I think that the more thoughtful people in our society, while pleased that Bin Laden is dead, are behaving in a more reserved way. There are baser elements in every society, including America, and those are the unabashed ones in the streets with their hearts on their sleeves.

It's a good reminder (to me, at least) not to judge other nations only by the vocal elements we see on TV and the internet who take to the streets at the drop of the hat and behave in a similar way...


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm so confused by the timestamps in this thread.  I didn't know about this until I saw the front page of the paper this morning.  Usually I'm up to the minute in current events but now I'm wondering if I was walking around last evening not knowing this.

The earliest time stamp in this thread is 7:00 p.m.  Does that mean it didn't break until midnight EST?  I hope so...


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

daveconifer said:


> I'm so confused by the timestamps in this thread. I didn't know about this until I saw the front page of the paper this morning. Usually I'm up to the minute in current events but now I'm wondering if I was walking around last evening not knowing this.
> 
> The earliest time stamp in this thread is 7:00 p.m. Does that mean it didn't break until midnight EST? I hope so...


The president didn't make the formal announcement until after 11:30pm but the news networks had it long before that.

My daughter heard it while watching the baseball game but that was late at night, too. She called me to turn on CNN. I know that was after 11.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> The president didn't make the formal announcement until after 11:30pm but the news networks had it long before that.
> 
> My daughter heard it while watching the baseball game but that was late at night, too. She called me to turn on CNN. I know that was after 11.


Thanks Gertie.

Now that I think about it, I was editing like a good little independent writer. My fingers were in my ears...


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## Guest (May 2, 2011)

This was my favorite part of the news conference.


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## deanfromaustralia (Mar 24, 2011)

What I'd like to know is why media outlets insist on calling him Osama when it's Usama. It's always been Usama.


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## Cindy416 (May 2, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> This was my favorite part of the news conference.


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

The reason Bin Laden was a threat was because he had money.  That is the lifeblood of terrorism.

As far as taking him alive, based on my own background in Special Operations, I'd say that wasn't an option.  There would be no point to it.  Double-tap in the head and it's no longer an issue.

If the chain of command hadn't been so screwed up, SF would have had him at Tora Bora almost ten years ago.  But the need for us to send everything up for approval slowed everything down too much.  Kudos to ST-6 for a job well done.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

It should have happened much sooner. I have to agree that scenes of celebration are in execrable taste, but human nature hasn't changed much over the centuries. This was something that had to be done. It was justice. Cheering about it is about the same as having goodies while watching a hanging--says bad things about human beings and our development.

Western Civilization? Well, one might remember what Gandhi said. It would be a nice idea.


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## Cindy416 (May 2, 2009)

Bob Mayer said:


> The reason Bin Laden was a threat was because he had money. That is the lifeblood of terrorism.
> 
> As far as taking him alive, based on my own background in Special Operations, I'd say that wasn't an option. There would be no point to it. Double-tap in the head and it's no longer an issue.
> 
> If the chain of command hadn't been so screwed up, SF would have had him at Tora Bora almost ten years ago. But the need for us to send everything up for approval slowed everything down too much. Kudos to ST-6 for a job well done.


I agree wholeheartedly.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I find it interesting that the President officially announced it at 11:35 or so.
There was some talk a little earlier.
But in that same news broadcast they showed tape of the young people celebrating in the streets "in front of the white house". Wow that was a quickly organized beer-blast demonstration.

Just sayin......


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

Joshua Rigley said:


> People are celebrating in the streets, screaming "USA! USA!" and waving American flags. If this is how good we feel over the death of Osama Bin Laden, I can't even imagine how happy the world was to hear of the death of Hitler and the end of WWII.


It would've been something to experience!


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

Nice blog post on the Harry Truman moment.

This has been a long time coming.  I heard the palace (cough, cough) was about 100 yards from a US military outpost.  I hope that isn't true.

I think those in NYC have great reason to celebrate-- their city was directly wounded in a way no other was.  I will admit to feeling a little chill at the flag waving and USA-chanting, but then I remember the parades on VE day and other days like that.  (Well, I remember hearing about them, lol.)

So many Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, and Sailors are still in Afghanistan and Iraq-- keep them in your prayers, please.


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

deanfromaustralia said:


> What I'd like to know is why media outlets insist on calling him Osama when it's Usama. It's always been Usama.


Fox News has been spelling it Usama.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Bob Mayer said:


> As far as taking him alive, based on my own background in Special Operations, I'd say that wasn't an option. There would be no point to it. Double-tap in the head and it's no longer an issue.


I was thinking the same thing. Or should I say 'hoping' since don't have the special forces background you have, Mayer.

As somebody else said, capturing him alive would have created so many nightmarish problems that this guy isn't worth...


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

caseyf6 said:


> This has been a long time coming. I heard the palace (cough, cough) was about 100 yards from a US military outpost. I hope that isn't true.


The news articles say:
"two-story house 100 yards from a Pakistani military academy "

Just sayin......


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## Erick Flaig (Oct 25, 2010)

Many thanks to our fine men and women in uniform who pursued Osama and finally were able to take him out.  As for celebrating, YES.  It's a celebration!  A mad dog has been removed from the world's neighborhood.  I put my flag up and would have shot the gun off the porch if I didn't live in town.         

Osama has just met his maker, and I bet he found out his name wasn't Allah.


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## Philip Chen (Aug 8, 2010)

I understand that when Osama entered his maker's house, he was met by Patrick Henry who said, "How could you have desecrated my land" and struck Osama with his cane. Following that James Madison plummeled Osama with his bare fists. Thomas Jefferson followed and whipped him with his riding crop. Then George Wahington came and gave him a swift kick with his boot.

Bloodied, Osama called out to his maker and plead, "What happened to the eight virgins, you promised me?'

His maker replied, "Virgins? I said Virginians".

[My embellishment of an old joke.]

I think that all of us are pleased to see that this criminal has been dealt with and hope that the true believers of Islam will start to prevail in the Arabic world and give the true meaning to the Koran; not the corrupted reading that Osama bin Laden and his bullies had used to defend their cowardly actions against their own people and the rest of the world.


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

deanfromaustralia said:


> What I'd like to know is why media outlets insist on calling him Osama when it's Usama. It's always been Usama.


Really? I live in Adelaide too and here they have always used Osama. Actually, I never seen him called Usama here, so not sure what you have been seeing.
And technically, from wikipedia, Usama isnt correct either:
_Variations of Osama bin Laden's name

There is no universally accepted standard for transliterating Arabic words and Arabic names into English;[9] bin Laden's name was most frequently rendered "Osama bin Laden." The FBI and CIA, as well as other US Governmental agencies, have used either "Usama bin Laden" or "Usama bin Ladin", both of which may be abbreviated as "UBL". Less common renderings include "Ussamah Bin Ladin" and "Oussama Ben Laden" in the French-language media. Other spellings include "Binladen" or, as used by his family in the West, "Binladin". The spellings with "o" and "e" come from a Persian-influenced pronunciation also used in Afghanistan, where bin Laden spent many years.

The Arabic linguistic convention would be to refer to him as "Osama" or "Osama bin Laden", not "bin Laden" alone, as "bin Laden" is a patronymic, not a surname in the Western manner. In its expanded form, it means "Osama, son of Mohammed, son of 'Awad, son of Laden".

Osama bin Laden's admirers have referred to him by several aliases and nicknames, including the Prince/Al-Amir, the Sheikh, Abu Abdallah, Sheikh Al-Mujahid, the Lion Sheik,[10] the Director.[11]_

Re the celebrations, I can totally understand why people are celebrating. The fall of Saddam Hussein was celebrated openly by (some) Iraquis, but I dont think his death was. Unfortunately people go overboard and the media will focus on that. That is what they do.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Amazingly apropos to the current situation:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

~ Martin Luther King, Jr


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## Pushka (Oct 30, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Amazingly apropos to the current situation:
> 
> "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
> 
> ~ Martin Luther King, Jr


And a great and wise man he was. But, how then, do we reconcile those words with war. Can we even try?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Pushka said:


> And a great and wise man he was. But, how then, do we reconcile those words with war. Can we even try?


I'm not sure I'm clever enough to answer that, but your assigned reading for this week is Terry Pratchett's _Jingo_.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Pushka said:


> And a great and wise man he was. But, how then, do we reconcile those words with war. Can we even try?


For extra credit, watch Samuel Fuller's movie, 'The Big Red One'

He spends two hours showing us that war is something that only a madman would have anything to do with, then at the climax shows us why war is sometimes the only thing to do. Key tagline "The only glory in war is surviving." Great movie. Fuller was a combat veteran, and it shows.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Amazingly apropos to the current situation:
> 
> "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
> 
> ~ Martin Luther King, Jr


It appears I was somewhat taken in by a FaceBook hoax. The actual quote, from one of his sermons, does not include the first sentence. It _still_ pertinent and essentially helps to describe my mixed feelings on the subject, but is not as glaringly apropos (which should have been my first hint):

"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence and toughness multiples toughness in a descending spiral of destruction."


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Pushka said:


> And a great and wise man he was. But, how then, do we reconcile those words with war. Can we even try?


I think they can be reconciled because sometimes war is the only option, _necessary_ to protect humanity from something even worse. That does not mean we have to rejoice in its effects.

Someone used the expression "a mad dog" -- think of it like that -- if there were a rabid dog loose in a small town, someone would have to kill it lest it harm people. Then afterward people would feel relief that they were now safe, and they might celebrate _being safe _(and perhaps celebrate the heroism of whoever killed the dog), but that doesn't mean they'd be celebrating the _death _of a living creature. There's a fine line.

Or, perhaps closer to home for many of us, what if you have a wasp nest next to your front door? You need to remove it, right? And when it's done, by whatever method, you say _Phew, glad that's taken care of, now I won't be stung_, but you don't feel glee and joy at the demise of the wasps.


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