# Sterling & Stones' Story Shop app



## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

I see Sterling & Stone's new Story Shop kickstarter has begun. Looks interesting... I'd certainly like to play around with a world/story building programme like that, see what it could do for me. If anything.

Anyone else interested in the thing?

(EDIT: I just noticed their total aim: $80,000! Blimey. That's quite a high target..!)

(EDIT 2: I didn't link to it, in case that's not the done thing)

(EDIT 3: No, I don't know the Stelring & Stone people. This is not an ad on their behalf, you cynical MONSTER)


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

When they did their first kickstarter, I really thought it was amazing. Jumping a motorcycle over a shark. But two sharks? WOW!


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Speaker-To-Animals said:


> When they did their first kickstarter, I really thought it was amazing. Jumping a motorcycle over a shark. But two sharks? WOW!


?


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Put the link up. I can't find it. Kickstarter's search stinks.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

It's a jumping the shark joke. I used to enjoy their show, but it seems to me their primary raison d'etre has changed from writing to selling (overpriced and largely worthless) services to writers.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Word Fan said:


> Put the link up. I can't find it. Kickstarter's search stinks.


Okay, if it's allowed: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1027829739/storyshop-write-better-stories-faster


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Speaker-To-Animals said:


> It's a jumping the shark joke. I used to enjoy their show, but it seems to me their primary raison d'etre has changed from writing to selling (overpriced and largely worthless) services to writers.


Ah! Okay; I think this looks pretty nifty myself, though. Potentially cool little tool.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Speaker-To-Animals said:


> It's a jumping the shark joke. I used to enjoy their show, but it seems to me their primary raison d'etre has changed from writing to selling (overpriced and largely worthless) services to writers.


I've been listening to the SPP for two years now and as far as I can remember, this is only the second time they've done a Kickstarter and it's really the first service they've offered to writers.

With Fiction Unboxed, they got a lot of people wanting to know about their process, so they decided to let people in on the ground floor with a project specifically designed for that. But to do something like that meant taking time off from their other projects, so a Kickstarter was understandable. And if you weren't interested in their process, you could just ignore it. I'm comfortable with my process, so I ignored it. There were a few episodes where they talked about it a bit too much to my liking but they quickly stopped after that.

And Story Shop seems like a really great app. I've never been able to find something that really suits me for plotting, but from the demo video and what they've talked about, it seems like something that's totally worth the investment.

I'm curious about this multitude of useless, overpriced services they've been pushing on authors. Maybe my podcast app conveniently has a streaming issue every week when they advertise them?


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

How much was the "Worldbuilder's summit?"


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Speaker-To-Animals said:


> How much was the "Worldbuilder's summit?"


Oh, you're right. My bad. That's three services they've offered in the past two years, all of them you could easily ignore and still listen to the podcast for free. Those shysters. Especially since we all know convention halls are rented out for free.


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## TFHinton (Jan 8, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've been listening to the SPP for two years now and as far as I can remember, this is only the second time they've done a Kickstarter and it's really the first service they've offered to writers.
> 
> With Fiction Unboxed, they got a lot of people wanting to know about their process, so they decided to let people in on the ground floor with a project specifically designed for that. But to do something like that meant taking time off from their other projects, so a Kickstarter was understandable. And if you weren't interested in their process, you could just ignore it. I'm comfortable with my process, so I ignored it. There were a few episodes where they talked about it a bit too much to my liking but they quickly stopped after that.
> 
> ...


Amen.

I don't mind them pushing a couple of things if they want, honestly - they give soooo much value and 170+ 1 hour+ podcasts is not something to be taken lightly.

I love the look of the Storyshop app and was the third backer this morning (I've gone for the 8 months level being a little too skint to go for lifetime access). I really hope it gets backed - I was actually coming on Kboards to make my very own discussion topic about it...


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## KGorman (Feb 6, 2011)

I like them, I'm sure the app will be great, but I can't justify spending that cash on something that I'm not sure will help me plot... especially when I have Scrivener and such.

Maybe if I had a higher production rate and many, many more series than the current four I'm planning? And when I have more disposable income?

I'm also a bit jaded against subscription services, which it looks like this app will be. I'm still holding out on giving Adobe my money every month just to get Photoshop. I don't need to edit those covers _quite_ yet.

I still listen to their podcasts, though.


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## notmylespaine (Oct 8, 2015)

This seems like a good tool for new writers, but once they get the hang of it I don't see any reason to keep paying for the monthly subscription rather than just doing/organizing everything themselves.


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## JLCarver (Sep 13, 2015)

Deleted


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

KGorman said:


> I'm still holding out on giving Adobe my money every month just to get Photoshop.


I tell everyone who says this to look at Adobe Photoshop Elements. It's at version 14 now and is only $63.24 today on Amazon for a PC/Mac double-version disc.

You get a great Photoshop without all of the extra never-used bells-and-whistles, and you get to keep the original install disc (no download of a file that you accidentally delete or crash), and you get several year's worth of use out of the program for less than a year's worth of subscription costs. We are still using version 12 and have had no need to upgrade yet.


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## garyjonas (Feb 24, 2013)

I've never met the Sterling & Stone guys, but I feel like I know them thanks to their podcast, and Write Publish Repeat.  The app looks like it will be extremely useful.  Most of the things they're talking about are easy enough to do in Scrivener, but the app would make things much more convenient, and with future iterations it will work on my phone or iPad no matter where I go--have a few minutes while standing in line?  Work on the plot or add details to a character.  If this gets funded, I'll use it every day, so I backed it.  As I type this, they're a quarter of the way there.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

I'll have to think about this one. I love the guys though and am certain it will be a quality project. I noticed that our own Libbie Hawker plays a role in one of the rewards!


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> Oh, you're right. My bad. That's three services they've offered in the past two years, all of them you could easily ignore and still listen to the podcast for free. Those shysters. Especially since we all know convention halls are rented out for free.


You missed the "Stone Table" mastermind thing they just had, which was similar in cost to the Worldbuilder Summit thing. (Did they do two of those, or maybe a second one is coming up?)

I think it's true that they've transitioned a fairly significant portion of the business to writer services since the success of Write, Publish, Repeat, but it's not enough to drive me away from their entertaining show. (I'm liking their choice of guests a bit less lately--but recently there was a really knowledgeable woman on getting physical books into stores, and the return of Ed Robertson to the show, both great.)

EDIT: $9.95 a month subscription service for this? Personally, I wouldn't need it for free, but that seems like _really_ overpricing the service being offered.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

J. Tanner said:


> You missed the "Stone Table" mastermind thing they just had, which was similar in cost to the Worldbuilder Summit thing. (Did they do two of those, or maybe a second one is coming up?)


Isn't that more a group mastermind thing, rather than a general author service, as such? Not a group you can just pony up money to join, I mean. It's as much for them as the others involved.

Anyway, they're certainly about the fiction first and foremost still, all this stuff is extra, like all the free podcasts. Pay, use, or ignore. At no point do I think they're trying to fleece any writers, it all comes from a good, genuine place. Or they're really good actors.


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

Matthew Stott said:


> Isn't that more a group mastermind thing, rather than a general author service, as such? Not a group you can just pony up money to join, I mean. It's as much for them as the others involved.


I could be wrong--I gloss over non-applicable stuff like I suspect you do--but I think others paid to be there, both subsidizing their appearance and profiting their company. Could be wrong.

I agree they're fiction-first but as I edited in above, I think this service is fleece-worthy pricing.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

J. Tanner said:


> I could be wrong--I gloss over non-applicable stuff like I suspect you do--but I think others paid to be there, both subsidizing their appearance and profiting their company. Could be wrong.
> 
> I agree they're fiction-first but as I edited in above, I think this service is fleece-worthy pricing.


I think without knowing the ins and outs, the 'why' of the cost, I wouldn't be comfortable agreeing with that. But being a kind hearted soul, I'll assume the best for now, heh!


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

I'm really excited about the app, and pledged for lifetime access. Those guys have always been really helpful, and from the looks, their business is bigger and better then it's ever been. So far almost 25,000 dollars worth of people agree. If that's what you call "jumping the shark" and "selling out", then sign me up. 

Although where I'm from we just call that "being successful".


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

Did they do the Stone Table thing? They mentioned it...and then never mentioned it again (afaik).


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Logan R. said:


> I'm really excited about the app, and pledged for lifetime access. Those guys have always been really helpful, and from the looks, their business is bigger and better then it's ever been. So far almost 25,000 dollars worth of people agree. If that's what you call "jumping the shark" and "selling out", then sign me up.
> 
> Although where I'm from we just call that "being successful".


Lifetime? We got ourselves a big spender...! I couldn't stretch to that this month, but might increase my pledge come pay day...


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

I'm in, although I admit I took the eight month plunge instead of the lifetime. I just hate committing to something over a lifetime before I know how much use it will be to me.

However, fifty bucks? I've definitely gotten more than $50 worth of information/entertainment out of SPP, so I'm happy to support them. I think they are good guys, and I trust them.


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

Diane Patterson said:


> Did they do the Stone Table thing? They mentioned it...and then never mentioned it again (afaik).


I think they mentioned in passing on a recent show that Sean had just returned from it with little additional commentary about the event itself. Could be wrong...


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

I used to be one of their bigger cheerleaders. I still love their show, but I was turned off by their advertising 99 Designs. I know they are probably getting money for it, and I'm hoping the money goes towards producing the show.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

Moist_Tissue said:


> I used to be one of their bigger cheerleaders. I still love their show, but I was turned off by their advertising 99 Designs. I know they are probably getting money for it, and I'm hoping the money goes towards producing the show.


As truly awful as their ad reads are for 99 Designs, I have a hard time counting that as selling out.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2015)

Shawn Inmon said:


> As truly awful as their ad reads are for 99 Designs, I have a hard time counting that as selling out.


Agreed. Small way for the show to actually help pay towards its hosting and production costs.

(and I suspect if they stopped doing them, long time listeners would complain LOL I've noticed on the Q&As now they are even getting folks sending in ones that sounds like a mix of real questions and a lead in for the ad read LOL)


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Yeah, lots of podcasts get sponsered advertising, that's a very normal thing. Hosting costs for a podcast build, for one thing. Some ask for you to throw in a pound or two a month on Patreon to go towards it, others get sponsors.

(I actually only tried 99 Designs because I kept hearing about it on their show, and I got the cover in my sig. Advertising apprently works on my easily led mind...!)


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## Misty Archer (May 6, 2015)

Matthew Stott said:


> (I actually only tried 99 Designs because I kept hearing about it on their show, and I got the cover in my sig. Advertising apprently works on my easily led mind...!)


I love your cover in your sig - it is gorgeous and just right for your book - the other covers on your website are lovely too.

I am debating on funding this - I think it could be very useful, but then I could also write something myself given a few weeks, which would work for me too.

I am probably going to land on the side of funding - more tools for authors can only be a good thing. Writing is like fitting a massive jigsaw together - I enjoyed the hunt for fragments on the dining room table - favourite jigsaws Waddington's Shaped Jig-Map series - but the picture on the box was really useful for building the skeleton quickly.

Anything that helps me get an overall view and world build would be fantastic.

At the moment I am not writing much due to a long overdue and imminent carpal tunnel op, but I have written a lot this year and still find myself dealing with the structure - the story is busting out all over the place, but I feel it needs a little more cohesiveness to work as a finished book/series.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

WallpaperStories said:


> I love your cover in your sig - it is gorgeous and just right for your book - the other covers on your website are lovely too.


Oh, thanks very much!


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2015)

It's interesting to me that some consider it "fleece worthy". I'm not a planner so the app has little value for me, but I still may contribute as a way to show my support because these guys give fellow indies an incredible amount of free, usable knowledge in the form of their multiple podcasts, their blog, their forums, and their overall accessibility. I mean seriously - they just launched multiple new podcasts, all with additional info, for free (and none with the 99Designs ad reads if it really bugs you LOL). They could easily to like a lot of other successful folks and do free teasers then push $1,000 courses to get any actionable details.

Building an app isn't cheap - they have to pay for the developers, the cloud hosting, etc. Yes, they are successful, all making full time livings from their writing, but that doesn't mean they can afford to just throw $80 grand on this app and give it away. The app pricing is inline with what I've seen on other subscription-based services, and while I normally avoid the model as a whole, it is one I can understand for something like this where it will include hosting your content for you so it's accessible anywhere. And, of course, if the price seems to high, can just not use it. That doesn't make them scammy or fleecy or anything else. For many folks, it would be worth $9.99 for a web/app based site where they can build and access a story bible from anywhere at anytime.



J. Tanner said:


> I think they mentioned in passing on a recent show that Sean had just returned from it with little additional commentary about the event itself. Could be wrong...


Yep, I listened to that episode this morning, episode 179.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

The product is basically a wiki for your own world, but you know what? If it's slick and easy to use they've got my money. Subscription services aren't popular, but there is something to be said being able to access your data anywhere via the web.

I currently use Scrivener for all this, so I love the idea that I can import from their platform.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Logan R. said:


> I'm really excited about the app, and pledged for lifetime access.


Same.

I just love "OMG totally jumping the shark, fleecing everyone, greedy b***ards. Still love the [free] show though."

Yup. Sounds about right.

For the record, this is the first time I've given them money for anything other than a book, and yet I still managed to get 170-some-odd (some very odd) hours of value out of them before yesterday, for absolutely nothing. If that's greedy and fleecing, the world could use a lot more of it.


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

Anma Natsu said:


> Building an app isn't cheap - they have to pay for the developers, the cloud hosting, etc. Yes, they are successful, all making full time livings from their writing, but that doesn't mean they can afford to just throw $80 grand on this app and give it away.


Never said they should give it away. Didn't see anyone else say anything close. The absolutely should charge a reasonable fee for it. Cloud storage is dirt cheap though.



> The app pricing is inline with what I've seen on other subscription-based services, and while I normally avoid the model as a whole, it is one I can understand for something like this where it will include hosting your content for you so it's accessible anywhere.


Here's where we seriously part ways. It doesn't feel like half the cost or value of Photoshop. It doesn't feel like higher cost or value compared to Prime or Netflix. Out in the real world, I'm tangentially involved in a far more complex, expensive, and data intensive product that includes a subscription model. The base subscription: $5 a month. It feels more like a slightly specialized Evernote to me. Evernote's free to start with $25-$50 a year subscriptions. That seems like a more reasonable range to me.



> And, of course, if the price seems to high, can just not use it. That doesn't make them scammy or fleecy or anything else. For many folks, it would be worth $9.99 for a web/app based site where they can build and access a story bible from anywhere at anytime.


"If you don't like it, no one's forcing you to use it" point is a given, and a discussion killer. We can't criticize pretty much anything without invoking that possible shutdown defense.

Like most of the people in this thread, I really like these guys. I think they are getting a lot of rope on this pricing based on good-will and their cult of personality (which shouldn't be taken as a slight). I think if this were just a product on the market by a faceless entity, people would be WAY more critical. But time will tell I guess. Both Fiction Unboxed and their Platinum Reader program felt overpriced to me too. One succeeded, one failed. So I admit the possibility that enough people will disagree with me over the long haul to make it a success. (I have little doubt it will get funded.)


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2015)

J. Tanner said:


> Here's where we seriously part ways. It doesn't feel like half the cost or value of Photoshop. It doesn't feel like higher cost or value compared to Prime or Netflix. Out in the real world, I'm tangentially involved in a far more complex, expensive, and data intensive product that includes a subscription model. The base subscription: $5 a month. It feels more like a slightly specialized Evernote to me. Evernote's free to start with $25-$50 a year subscriptions. That seems like a more reasonable range to me.


I don't disagree with you here (other than PhotoShop being worth the monthly cost or any other Adobe product - their monthly pricing is just ridiculous and I refuse to do it; fortunately I got CS6 before they went CC though so I have that option  It is all about perceived value. For me, Evernote looked interesting but not worth paying for as it offered nothing new that I needed. StoryApp, likewise, isn't really worth $10/mth to me since it doesn't help me as a writer (not a planner and don't do series), but if I did the kind of series and serials they did, it might be.



J. Tanner said:


> "If you don't like it, no one's forcing you to use it" point is a given, and a discussion killer. We can't criticize pretty much anything without invoking that possible shutdown defense.


I specifically made that point because I got the impression it was seen as "scammy" or "fleece job" which it isn't - they are offering an app, they aren't just taking money and running. Whether it is over priced is another matter, and maybe it is. But that doesn't make it a scam or some other nefarious issue - maybe they have misread the market on pricing models, or it's still up in the air. They've been pretty responsive to feedback, so I think if people more reasonable noted that it is high price compared to some services, like Office and the ridiculously overpriced Adobe model, they might listen and reevaluate. I suspect the pricing in part is looking at other services regularly used by indies, like MailChimp ($30+/mth) and Booklaunch ($5-10/mth)


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Anma Natsu said:


> I don't disagree with you here (other than PhotoShop being worth the monthly cost or any other Adobe product - their monthly pricing is just ridiculous and I refuse to do it; fortunately I got CS6 before they went CC though so I have that option  It is all about perceived value. For me, Evernote looked interesting but not worth paying for as it offered nothing new that I needed. StoryApp, likewise, isn't really worth $10/mth to me since it doesn't help me as a writer (not a planner and don't do series), but if I did the kind of series and serials they did, it might be.
> 
> I specifically made that point because I got the impression it was seen as "scammy" or "fleece job" which it isn't - they are offering an app, they aren't just taking money and running. Whether it is over priced is another matter, and maybe it is. But that doesn't make it a scam or some other nefarious issue - maybe they have misread the market on pricing models, or it's still up in the air. They've been pretty responsive to feedback, so I think if people more reasonable noted that it is high price compared to some services, like Office and the ridiculously overpriced Adobe model, they might listen and reevaluate. I suspect the pricing in part is looking at other services regularly used by indies, like MailChimp ($30+/mth) and Booklaunch ($5-10/mth)


I have no insights on pricing, but I chose lifetime because I LOATH monthly subs. My yearly office, domains, webhosting, accounting, FB ads, and monthly MC subs are more than enough for me! As for price in general of THIS app, I think it's more than likely a product of dividing the development costs by the number of writers the SPP guys hope/guess will want it.

As they said from the start. They want this for their own work, but it won't be made if it doesn't fund. It isn't a case of leaving features out if they don't get enough money. It simply won't get built at all.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

I have no interest in the app, but _Yesterday's Gone_ is pretty good, as far as I've gotten into it. I still listen to the podcast, but only when someone interesting is on. I always listen to Better Off Undead, though, because that's mostly Dave's stories, and he's my favorite. Sean and Johnny are a little bit too self-congratulatory for me sometimes. I'm not saying it's without merit, but that still doesn't mean I want to listen to it.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

J. Tanner said:


> Like most of the people in this thread, I really like these guys. I think they are getting a lot of rope on this pricing based on good-will and their cult of personality (which shouldn't be taken as a slight). I think if this were just a product on the market by a faceless entity, people would be WAY more critical. But time will tell I guess. Both Fiction Unboxed and their Platinum Reader program felt overpriced to me too. One succeeded, one failed. So I admit the possibility that enough people will disagree with me over the long haul to make it a success. (I have little doubt it will get funded.)


Unlike most of the people on this thread, I'd never heard of these guys. They have no "cult of personality" cred going for me, or my wife, but we both looked at what the app will do and ponied up money for the Kickstarter, because those features will be worth $10 a month for us. I only wish we could have afforded the lifetime membership instead of 18 months.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

toying with the idea of grabbing a lifetime level. I don't plot (not yet anyway) but I can see how this would be helpful to me. I am always searching through my older books looking for information on various characters and tidbits of data. I'm determined to become more organized and think this could help. But like many people, I loathe subscript services.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

KL_Phelps said:


> toying with the idea of grabbing a lifetime level. I don't plot (not yet anyway) but I can see how this would be helpful to me. I am always searching through my older books looking for information on various characters and tidbits of data.


The @ and # functions alone had me reaching for my wallet. I'm really really psyched about it. I went with the lifetime. These guys aren't going anywhere, and I trust that it will be useful to me for at least long enough to get my "money's worth" - whatever that means.


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## JayBrenham (Sep 11, 2015)

I jumped in on the 5 dollar level to get the character DNA questionnaire. I am seriously contemplating doing the lifetime because I think I would use this program. Especially when I saw there were still 299 early bird specials still available! I don't think its a question of if these guys can deliver. They have a pattern of delivering products to the market.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

I looked at the royalties coming in next week and went ahead and upgraded to the lifetime level tonight. My wife and I joke we share a brain, but unfortunately our shared brain is as absent minded as our individual brains.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

locked in the early bird lifetime, figure I can always downgrade before it ends if I change my mind


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

they upped the number of available lifetime early birds from 100 to 200. now nearly half funded


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Matthew Stott said:


> Yeah, lots of podcasts get sponsered advertising, that's a very normal thing. Hosting costs for a podcast build, for one thing. Some ask for you to throw in a pound or two a month on Patreon to go towards it, others get sponsors.
> 
> (I actually only tried 99 Designs because I kept hearing about it on their show, and I got the cover in my sig. Advertising apprently works on my easily led mind...!)


I listen to a ton of non-writing-related podcasts, and sponsored advertising is the norm. In fact, its relative rarity in the realm of writing podcasts stands out.

Most other podcasts I listen to have ads every episode for Mailchimp, NatureBox, Casper beds, Blue Apron, MeUndies... the list of regular podcast advertisers goes on and on.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> I listen to a ton of non-writing-related podcasts, and sponsored advertising is the norm. In fact, its relative rarity in the realm of writing podcasts stands out.
> 
> Most other podcasts I listen to have ads every episode for Mailchimp, NatureBox, Casper beds, Blue Apron, MeUndies... the list of regular podcast advertisers goes on and on.


Yeah, some of the other podcasts I listen to, like WTF, or How Did This Get Made, seem to reel off a list of advertisers every episode.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

I can't think of any podcasts I listen to that don't have some type of sponsorship


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

I actually find the 99 Designs ads pretty funny. The guys are incredibly tongue in cheek about the whole thing.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

RKC said:


> I actually find the 99 Designs ads pretty funny. The guys are incredibly tongue in cheek about the whole thing.


That kind of ad-reading works far better than straight "here's our sponsor" ad reads. They're savvy marketers, even though it looks like they're goofing around.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Shelley K said:


> That kind of ad-reading works far better than straight "here's our sponsor" ad reads. They're savvy marketers, even though it looks like they're goofing around.


Oh yeah, definitely. I don't know about you guys, but when I hear a regular ad read begin, I tune out. In the case of the Kobo ads on The Creative Penn, I just skip ahead. But the SPP "bad" ad reads are entertaining, so I listen to those.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Oh yeah, definitely. I don't know about you guys, but when I hear a regular ad read begin, I tune out. In the case of the Kobo ads on The Creative Penn, I just skip ahead. But the SPP "bad" ad reads are entertaining, so I listen to those.


it's definitely entertaining, doesn't make me more or less inclined to use the service but I appreciate the effort and entertainment. Standard ad copy is mind numbing and like you I just tune it out


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## Dan Weber (Oct 6, 2014)

Bump! 5 days left and over 80% funded! Pretty impressive.

As a reforming pantser I could actually use this NOW for my WIP with multiple POV... 

Went with the lifetime as I hate monthly subscribing fees, plus I've been listening to these guys for free since almost Day 1 of their podcast and have gotten more than that dollar amount of value out of them over the years.


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## Joe M (May 23, 2015)

Like the show and their writing books and courses, but the app isn't something I'd use. They mentioned on the show that this was a viability test, and I'm not sure just supporting them just because I like them would be good for anyone. 

Sent from my LG-F410S using Tapatalk


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

I enjoy their podcast and found _Write. Publish. Repeat._ hugely useful. This app, though--I do all this in Scrivener and can't see a need for getting it. I wish them the best with it.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> I enjoy their podcast and found _Write. Publish. Repeat._ hugely useful. This app, though--I do all this in Scrivener and can't see a need for getting it. I wish them the best with it.


I completely understand, but you don't do this with scrivener. Neither do I because scrivener isn't database driven.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I completely understand, but you don't do this with scrivener. Neither do I because scrivener isn't database driven.


Maybe not the exact same layout, but all the content is there--characters, settings, beats, pictures, etc. This app would be redundant for my purposes.

EDIT: Not to mention the data has to be accessed online, and it's a subscription fee. My data in Scrivener is on my hard drive and cost me a one-time fee for the software and infinite (presumably) updates.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> Maybe not the exact same layout, but all the content is there--characters, settings, beats, pictures, etc. This app would be redundant for my purposes.


Hmmm. I think the biggest strength of this is how it uses linking to interconnect things. So I have all my characters, and the settings, and other bits 'n' pieces in scrivener at the moment, but they are just separate pics and files. The app should connect the dots for me. So I click one colour of link and I go to the setting linked to character a in scene b etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it makes what I already do easier and quicker... hopefully.

EDIT: Yeah I went lifetime to avoid subs. I have MC, Office 365, webhosting, and various others subs already. I don't need a new one.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I guess what I'm trying to say is it makes what I already do easier and quicker... hopefully.


Cool; I hope it works out great for you!


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Hmmm. I think the biggest strength of this is how it uses linking to interconnect things.


Yeah, I pledged because I want those @s and #s. LOL And in fact, that too is something you can do in Scriv, make links like that, but because--as you said--Scriv isn't database driven, then I have to remember to go change links if I change a name or location or what-have-you. I ended up not doing that after the first time I discovered how much sheer work I was making for myself. I think this will be a fun little tool. So it's my Christmas present to myself.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Well, I realized today that I'd been contemplating paying someone three times the cost of the lifetime subscription to do a series bible for just one series, so I decided this was a better use of those funds.  I backed the project and really hope they'll make their goal. They're getting close!

And did anyone notice that they're linking to it over on your dashboard at Kobo Writing Life? I thought that was very cool of them.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

Oh cool!  I hadn't logged into Kobo lately since I pulled into Select for awhile.

They'd mentioned both Kobo and Draft2Digital have signed on as sponsors


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## TJBlain (Mar 4, 2014)

I've listened to all of the podcasts that deal with StoryShop and their vision of what it will be, and I think it sounds really interesting. Anything that can help keep relationships between people, places, and time lines straight is a good thing in my book. Pun intended.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Gosh, a little over a day left and $4000 to go. It's going to be tight...!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Now it's just $2,700 and some change to go. It keeps inching up, so don't despair! (Yet.)


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

Only $1,200 to go now, so it's definitely going to fund. 

I am torn between giving it a try and jumping in with a lifetime subscription. I'll have to decide soon, because the lifetime subscription goes away as soon as the Kickstarter ends.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Shawn Inmon said:


> Only $1,200 to go now, so it's definitely going to fund.
> 
> I am torn between giving it a try and jumping in with a lifetime subscription. I'll have to decide soon, because the lifetime subscription goes away as soon as the Kickstarter ends.


Shawn, I was in that exact same place yesterday before I took the plunge. But then I realized how much it would cost for me to pay someone else to track this stuff, and tried to calculate how much time I've wasted going back through previous books trying to find the information I needed, and at that point it became something of a no-brainer.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Well, it's fully funded! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1027829739/storyshop-write-better-stories-faster


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

ChristinePope said:


> Shawn, I was in that exact same place yesterday before I took the plunge. But then I realized how much it would cost for me to pay someone else to track this stuff, and tried to calculate how much time I've wasted going back through previous books trying to find the information I needed, and at that point it became something of a no-brainer.


Yeah, you're right. I just jumped up to lifetime access. Never have to worry about a subscription fee that way.


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Shawn Inmon said:


> Yeah, you're right. I just jumped up to lifetime access. Never have to worry about a subscription fee that way.


Yay! I'm so happy it got funded -- I can't wait to start playing with it!


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm resurrecting this thread because I was wondering if anyone had heard anything about when the app was going to be ready. I left a message on the Kickstarter page several days ago, and crickets.

If it's delayed, fine. I'd rather have a notification that it wasn't going to be able to launch on schedule instead of complete radio silence. When someone's sitting on a chunk of my money and isn't being communicative, I start to get cranky.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Wasn't May mentioned as a launch date for the initial version? Or am I making that up..?


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2016)

Posted on the Kickstarter an hour ago from Sean:



> Hi everyone!
> There's a GREAT update coming. Josh and Seth are inches away, and we keep being "ALMOST" ready for an update, but any update would be "THERE'S A REALLY AWESOME UPDATE COMING" and not much more than that. But ... THERE'S A REALLY AWESOME UPDATE COMING.
> We're very, VERY close. Thank you so, so much for your patience!


Considering they just did their Smarter Artist summit and Johnny is working on his move to Texas, not surprising there was a delay in response


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Anma Natsu said:


> Posted on the Kickstarter an hour ago from Sean:
> 
> Considering they just did their Smarter Artist summit and Johnny is working on his move to Texas, not surprising there was a delay in response


Thanks. They must have seriously just posted that after I checked again this morning...I wanted to make sure they hadn't responded before I posted this here. Figures.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

They gave the Smarter Artist Summit a sneak peek at what they had so far but I wasn't there, so not sure how close to finished it is. I've just been figuring April's not over yet.


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

Jim Johnson said:


> Not to mention the data has to be accessed online, and it's a subscription fee. My data in Scrivener is on my hard drive and cost me a one-time fee for the software and infinite (presumably) updates.


Yes, I agree. I went to the One Year Sub Page - they had set the payment to recur in perpetuity.

That's duplicity - buy for one year - in perpetuity - and it breaches Consumer Law in several countries.

It has also been found to build distrust because it removes consumer choice and if a person dies and the executor does not pick up the payments they then go on after death - FOREVER.

If they offer a year - even for a beta app like this is - then they must offer a year - not perpetuity.

I think the app has much to offer - not now, but in the future - I am sure comparative pricing would render the app beyond the appetite for most writers. It needs to be price comparative and also offer a clear and honest path for purchase. The NPV of this app to me does not correlate with the product value and its current pricing arrangement.


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I completely understand, but you don't do this with scrivener. Neither do I because scrivener isn't database driven.


So, you make a simple TABLE - Headings: CULTURE - CULLED ITEMS (FROM EVERYWHERE) - CHARACTERS - STORY WORLDS - PLOT SKETCHES

Use your imagination for what you add to the table - use S&S topics - adapt storylines for plot sketches. You really do not need this app to do that if you have Scrivener. The app is a reworking of the old unloved - but still purchasable StoryStructure (Mac and Windows). There is nothing new here at all.

I'm working on the beta of Scrivener 3 at the moment and it is simply delicious! The Tables function really works.

'Go figure', as they say in the classics.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Ghostly said:


> Yes, I agree. I went to the One Year Sub Page - they had set the payment to recur in perpetuity.
> 
> That's duplicity - buy for one year - in perpetuity - and it breaches Consumer Law in several countries.


How strange that all my app subscriptions do just that, then. Dropbox, Office 365, Adobe CC, Book Report, Backblaze, World of Warcraft ... all renew monthly or yearly, until I specifically ask that they stop.

And when I die, I imagine the payments will stop as soon as the paycheck that covers them stops getting deposited in the bank. I'm not worried about it.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

I had an email about this and read the site, listened to their latest podcast, but I'm still not entirely sure what it does.

A way to help plan your story and keep track of it and its characters? Well, they say it's not like anything currently available. Which is fine. Great, even. With my new (rather complex) series currently one book into a first draft, I'd love a better way of keeping up with story progression, characters, etc.

I'd be interested to try this out. But instead of a free 30 day trial you have to pay up front then (presumably) ask for a refund within 30 days if it's not for you. Unless I'm reading that wrong. There doesn't even appear to be a demo video up, so I have no clue how it works, and I have no idea if I'll have the time to thoroughly explore it within the first 30 days. A Scrivener-style trial would garner far more interest IMO.

I like these guys, and I think they've added a lot to the Indie community - i've certainly learned a lot - but I'm dubious about this. I guess I'll wait until people start recommending it before I invest in the time needed to experiment properly.

[edit: I found a video buried in "help and resourses" https://storyshop.uservoice.com/]


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

lilywhite said:


> And when I die, I imagine the payments will stop as soon as the paycheck that covers them stops getting deposited in the bank. I'm not worried about it.


You need to get a lawyer's opinion on that to protect your estate. Contracts signed before a Will is executed are usually enforceable against an estate.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Ghostly said:


> You need to get a lawyer's opinion on that to protect your estate. Contracts signed before a Will is executed are usually enforceable against an estate.


You are being literally ridiculous. If I let payment lapse on a software subscription, then I stop being able to use the software. That is the entirety of what happens. Every time my bank issues a new credit card because of some fraud alert, I end up losing access to at least a couple of subscription services because the payment bounces. I go put my new payment info in, and Bob's your uncle. If I didn't, then obviously they wouldn't turn my stuff back on.

I obviously don't know everything about how every situation would be handled--there may be intricacies involved if you live in a specific country, for example, or have a certain business setup, and definitely everyone should review the TOS for themselves with those things in mind--but you're in here crying that _They'll still charge you *even when you're dead*!_ and that's by and large just a silly, showboating statement.

I get that you've got a bug up your butt about this software; I don't know why but I guess I also don't care why? Bottom line: I subscribe to a lot of the major creative/design/business software, and the TOS here is no different than those.

It sounds like this isn't the software for you, and fortunately no one is making you use it. Maybe you can just let other grownup folks make their own decisions?


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

lilywhite said:


> You are being literally ridiculous.
> --but you're in here crying that _They'll still charge you *even when you're dead*!_ and that's by and large just a silly, showboating statement.
> 
> I get that you've got a bug up your butt about this software; I don't know why but I guess I also don't care why? Bottom line: I subscribe to a lot of the major creative/design/business software, and the TOS here is no different than those.
> ...


Well, there you go - giant leaping to extraordinary conclusions.

Looks like I have to throw away my Law Degree in Contract Law in the face of your withering logic and profound legal reasoning.

I was doing nothing more that expressing a concern, as a 'heads up' to fellow writers, who are not always astute about 'wordly' matters such as legal terms in contracts.

This is simple enough, I think, that even a legal sage like yourself, will comprehend it. In essence contracts in perpetuity can run in perpetuity. I'm saying nothing more than 'be careful'.

http://tesslimited.co.uk/2016/06/05/everything-you-need-to-know-about-in-perpetuity-contracts/

Essentially, an 'in perpetuity' agreements lasts for the entirety of the customer's life, and in some cases, even after death, the costs may pass on to next of kin.

and:

From Addisons

•	Whether a commercial contract is a "perpetual contract" - that is, it does not specify an end date and does not confer any right to terminate - may not always be clear on its face.  
•	Where a commercial contract is a perpetual contract, Australian courts, for example, appear willing to imply that the parties to the contract must have intended the contract to be terminable, whether on reasonable notice or potentially at will, however such a right is not automatic and will depend on whether it can be implied in the particular circumstances.  
•	However, all due care should nevertheless be taken to remove any ambiguity surrounding the term of a contract as there is still room for dispute:  the contract must continue for such time as will enable that party to recoup its expenditure. 
Dispute 2: a party may argue that it has suffered loss because insufficient notice of termination was given. 
A terminating party must give enough notice to allow the relationship to be brought to an end in an orderly way and the parties to enter into alternative arrangements. 
It is prudent to ensure that express termination rights are included in agreements to protect the parties, even where a "rolling" or more flexible term of contract is desired. 
What Constitutes a Perpetual Contract? 
A "perpetual contract" is generally one that does not specify an end date and does not confer any rights to terminate the contract. However, it is not always readily apparent whether an agreement is perpetual or whether it in fact has a finite term.


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## Steve Voelker (Feb 27, 2014)

lilywhite said:


> How strange that all my app subscriptions do just that, then. Dropbox, Office 365, Adobe CC, Book Report, Backblaze, World of Warcraft ... all renew monthly or yearly, until I specifically ask that they stop.
> 
> And when I die, I imagine the payments will stop as soon as the paycheck that covers them stops getting deposited in the bank. I'm not worried about it.


Yep. I really can't think of many subscriptions I have that DON'T auto-renew. 
Still, if that is the kind of thing that bothers you, then good work with the heads up.

As far as the actual software, I shelled out for the lifetime membership back in the Kickstarter. I figured I had gotten a lot of good advice from those guys for free over the years, and that was a good way to show them some support.

I don't see myself transferring the work from any existing series into it, but I am planning to start a new series soon, so I will test it out then and report back my findings for anyone interested.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Here's what S&S says about their subscription model:



> At the end of each Billing Cycle, your Subscription will automatically renew under the exact same conditions unless you cancel it or Wizard Stick Studio, LLC cancels it. You may cancel your Subscription renewal either through your online account management page or by contacting Wizard Stick Studio, LLC customer support team.


Here's what Netflix says about their subscription model:



> The membership fee for the Netflix service and any other charges you may incur in connection with your use of the service, such as taxes and possible transaction fees, will be charged on a monthly basis to your Payment Method on the calendar day corresponding to the commencement of the paying portion of your membership. In some cases your payment date may change, for example if your Payment Method has not successfully settled or if your paid membership began on a day not contained in a given month. Visit our website and click on the "Billing details" link on the "Your Account" page to see your next payment date.


Here's what Hulu says:



> Your subscription will continue in effect on a recurring basis corresponding to the term of your subscription unless and until you cancel your subscription or the account or service is otherwise suspended or discontinued pursuant to these Terms. You must cancel your subscription before your next renewal date in order to avoid the next billing. We will bill the periodic subscription fee plus any applicable taxes to the Payment Method you provide to us during registration (or to a different Payment Method if you change your account information). If you cancel your subscription, cancellation will be effective at the end of the current Billing Period - this means that you will have continued access to your subscription for the remainder of that period, but you will not receive a refund. You can cancel your subscription by logging into your Hulu Account and following the instructions on your Account page on the Hulu Site or in the settings of our mobile application. If you pay for the Services through your account with a third party (e.g., Apple iTunes) and want to cancel your subscription or manage your billing, you may need to do so through your account with such third party.


So please explain to me why S&S is apparently violating the law, but Netflix and Hulu aren't. Like StoryShop, both Netflix and Hulu have automatic renewals unless the user cancels.


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

_"So please explain to me why S&S is apparently violating the law, but Netflix and Hulu aren't. Like StoryShop, both Netflix and Hulu have automatic renewals unless the user cancels."_

Exactly - UNLESS THE USER CANCELS

*I have not claimed for a moment that S&S are violating the Law.* The focus here is NOT S&S or the potentially brilliant StoryShop app, it is focussed on the CONTRACT. I'm saying a year in a contract should mean a year - not perpetuity. Why don't they say this is a contract in perpetuity which you pay off at $99 a year? Because it is. It is not a contract for a year. It is a contract in perpetuity. It simply is. I hope you 'get' that.

If S&S set the year payment up as a terminating subscription then I would have no problem. They would supply the subscription service for a year and then I would HAVE to CHOOSE to renew if I wanted to continue the service.

If you die with all of your affairs in order then good on you. If you don't, then a contract in perpetuity still runs in perpetuity if you failed to cancel it. If the vendor has continued to supply the service specified in the contract after your death then your estate or next of kin CAN be sued for outstanding services supplied. It is unlikely, but it is legal.

Perpetuity in Law means perpetuity - UNLESS THE USER CANCELS the contract, or the the vendor cancels the contract, or the banking agency cancels the contract. The contract continues until the contract is cancelled.

The S&S and Hulu 'conditions' examples you give are reasonable definitions of a contract in perpetuity - not a terminating contract. The Netflix example is about transaction fees and taxes and not a condition expressed about the term of the contract.

If you have a Legal definition of perpetuity that does not legally mean perpetuity can be enforced, and don't have to use weasel words to explain it I would like you to explain that to me. After all I had the good grace to address your mistaken assertion that I had impugned S&S. I had not - anywhere, at any time. You twisted my comments about the 'contract' to mean I had some unspecified concern about S&S. I did not. I also enjoy S&S, and if their one year StoryShop subscription was a one year terminating subscription and not an undertaking in perpetuity then I too would enrol in a heartbeat.

There is no need to kill the messenger just because the message perturbates your world.

I wish you a happy, ordered and eternal life and many joyful subscriptions in perpetuity.


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

Steve Voelker said:


> I will test it out then and report back my findings for anyone interested.


VERY interested and appreciative of any thoughtful and honest review - with gratitude.

I came across this rather similar offering from Britain.

Story Planner (storyplanner.com). Seems like a reasonable model for an online story development offering. You get to try the whole Premium set of options for free for a week. It is an accumulation paradigm - what you write in one panel is added to what you write in another panel and presented at the end as a box that contains all of the text you have written - needing punctuation and a little faffing about - but good enough to for you to know exactly what is afoot with your story.

_Story Planner offers online templates, or 'plans', to help you structure and develop your story. Plans range from character questionnaires (to help you get to know your characters) to story outlines that provide a structure to an entire novel. There is also a category for screenwriters.

To use a plan at Story Planner simply create an account and select the plan that interests you. Text prompts will ask you about your story, and from there you can add notes. You can save your plan and come back to it later, or export it as a document to print or use in a word processor. Your Story Plan can guide you as you write, or can simply be a way to store notes on your work in progress. And if you need some guidance, a step by step guide to using Story Planner can be found here.

Some writers prefer to write without any planning, but others struggle to write 75,000 to 120,000 words without any sort of plan. Story Plans don't make for formulaic stories, instead they help you define the key moments in your story and harness your creativity to create compelling scenes.

And if you don't like using traditional story structures, we have some free plans to try, like the Tentpole Method and a simple Chapter Outline. You might also find other elements of Story Planner useful such as character questions or guidance on writing log lines and synopsis.

Your plans remain private and are only visible to you. The plans you write are stored securely on our server and we have no access to them. You own the copyright of all the work you create at Story Planner. No one can read your Story Plans at the Story Planner website.

The best way to choose a plan is to browse all the plans and try out a few. You have access to all the plans regardless of your level of membership. But if you want the ability to save and edit unlimited plans you will need to be a Story Planner Premium member. To learn more about the benefits of Premium membership click here.

If you want unlimited access to Story Plans you will need to upgrade to Premium Membership. If you decide not to pay for Premium Membership the best way to switch to another plan is to export your current plan to PDF, text, or to a Word document then save it. When you have exported your plan you will need to delete your current plan and create a new Story Plan.

A Basic Story Planner account lets you use one Story Plan, while a Premium Membership plan allows unlimited use of any Story Plans. You also get a neat display of all your project files in the 'My Story Plan' section of your account. This means that your novel might have plans for characters, a story outline, a log line, a synopsis and even a query letter ready to send - all kept neatly in the same place.

It's $15 for three months or $40 for a year (that's $3.33 a month, less than a decent cup of coffee!)_


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## S.G. Seabourne (Oct 27, 2016)

Ohhh. Going to check out Storyplanner.
As for Storyshop... I'm interested, but I think I'll save the free month try-out for when their word processing feature comes online. From the podcast, it'll be able to format into ebook files. That's worth money to me.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

It's an annual subscription. This is not unusual. My Skype number does this as well. Every year, it automatically renews unless I cancel it. My Bluehost account automatically renews every two years unless I cancel it. My VPN service automatically renews every year unless I cancel it. My cell phone contract as well automatically renews every two years unless I cancel it. Same for my Internet service.

Maybe I'm an idiot but I don't see why StoryShop is different. It says right on the page that it's an annual subscription with monthly subscriptions coming soon. If you choose to buy, on the checkout page it again says it's an annual subscription and you have to tick a box saying you've read and agree to the terms. The terms state very clearly it's a subscription model. I know I'm not the legal expert you are, but it wasn't that hard to find the part about subscriptions in the terms. It also confers upon both the company _and the user_ the right to cancel _at any time._ It's right under the heading labeled "Subscriptions." Maybe that was too vague?

Quoting again since you keep focusing on this idea that apparently we don't have a right to terminate:



> At the end of each Billing Cycle, your Subscription will automatically renew under the exact same conditions *unless you cancel it* or Wizard Stick Studio, LLC cancels it. *You may cancel your Subscription renewal either through your online account management page or by contacting Wizard Stick Studio, LLC customer support team.*


So once more, how is this different from any other subscription service? Every single one I've ever used doesn't ask me to renew, it just automatically renews unless I cancel. You have the ability to cancel your StoryShop account at any time, so what's the problem?


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Ghostly said:


> I was doing nothing more that expressing a concern, as a 'heads up' to fellow writers, who are not always astute about 'wordly' matters such as legal terms in contracts.


Weird, it looked to me like you created a sock puppet account because you have some sort of ax to grind.

Oh, well. Tomato/tomato.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Ghostly said:


> I came across this rather similar offering from Britain.
> 
> Story Planner (storyplanner.com).


Oh, I get it now. 

Your software looks very nice, but this is a poor way to call attention to it.


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

Perry Constantine - nope the checkout page sets out the 'In perpetuity' conditions. I guess you looked at that before you replied. Why the Advocacy here? I am not against the software at all - I said I went to the checkout page to BUY it - it was then that I discovered the conditions that ONLY appear at checkout. No need for Ready Fire Aim at all.

Lilywhite - you now graduate with a PhD in Conclusion Jumping. Just plain wrong AGAIN! Assumptions WRONG! Conclusions WRONG! Vindictiveness Unnecessary. What are you retaliating against? I have NO connection with that British Software, as you assert - I first saw it as a recommendation earlier in _*this thread*_ and followed it up and thought it had some merit. Interesting that you HAPPEN to use EXACTLY the same language and syntax that Seth (the developer) used when I wrote to him addressing my concerns about the issue of a contract in-perpetuity. Of course I am concluding nothing from that strange coincidence - your words - his words EXACTLY the same. Chance of course - BUT! Heavens, I almost jumped to a conclusion about you - how does it feel?


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

lilywhite said:


> Weird, it looked to me like you created a sock puppet account because you have some sort of ax to grind.


If I was a betting person... this ^ is where I would be putting my money. Brand new user who pops up resurrects an old thread just to trash talk the software/developers.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

Ghostly said:


> VERY interested and appreciative of any thoughtful and honest review - with gratitude.
> 
> I came across this rather similar offering from Britain.
> 
> ...


I went and checked out the Story Planner site. Very cool. I'm going to give the free trial a go. I like that you're given options of various story planning methods: Libby Hawker's Take off Your Pant's is there, as is Michael Hauge's 3 act structure as well as Randy Ingermanson's, Snowflake method and many others.

Lots to investigate . . .


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## Lefevre (Feb 1, 2014)

Does anyone here remember the program "dramatica?" Isn't the S&S app the same thing?


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## Ghostly (Apr 7, 2017)

AliceW said:


> If I was a betting person... this ^ is where I would be putting my money. Brand new user who pops up resurrects an old thread just to trash talk the software/developers.


Crickey! I'll take that bet. What are the stakes on offer?

Where did I trash-talk the developers?

Where did I trash-talk the software?

You guys raised the issues around the software and the developers. Are you having subconscious misgivings and maybe experiencing cognitive dissonance after plonking down your hard earned?

Please, Canonize both - but I think they are all still alive - the developers and the software. It still doesn't change the contract even if you confer Sainthood on them.

I talked about the contract. Didn't you actually READ the contract. You are required to tick that you have indeed, read the terms and conditions. THAT is precisely what makes it a contract. Surprised at how a few writers don't appear to read - Look, yes; read, no.

The FACT is that if you die and _are unable to cancel the contract_ it will run in-perpetuity with the $99 amount recurring each and every year until it is cancelled by _someone_.

Here is what it says - even on the front page, before you get to the checkout:
*Recurring Totals*
Subtotal	$99.00 / year
Tax	$0.00 / year
*Recurring Total	$99.00 / year*
First renewal: 2018-04-12

You do know what *Recurring* means - don't you? You do know what $99 */ year* means, don't you?

Here are their conditions - other companies have similar conditions - but that does not lessen the risk to your estate one iota. One or a hundred companies doing the same thing are still setting the same trap requiring you to pay for a service they have not yet delivered - in perpetuity:

_Subscriptions

Some parts of the Service are billed on a subscription basis ("Subscription(s)"). You will be billed in advance on a recurring and periodic basis ("Billing Cycle"). Billing cycles are set either on a monthly or annual basis, depending on the type of subscription plan you select when purchasing a Subscription.

At the end of each Billing Cycle, your Subscription will automatically renew under the exact same conditions unless you cancel it or Wizard Stick Studio, LLC cancels it. You may cancel your Subscription renewal either through your online account management page or by contacting Wizard Stick Studio, LLC customer support team.

A valid payment method, including credit card or PayPal, is required to process the payment for your Subscription. You shall provide Wizard Stick Studio, LLC with accurate and complete billing information including full name, address, state, zip code, telephone number, and a valid payment method information. By submitting such payment information, you automatically authorize Wizard Stick Studio, LLC to charge all Subscription fees incurred through your account to any such payment instruments.

Should automatic billing fail to occur for any reason, Wizard Stick Studio, LLC will issue an electronic invoice indicating that you must proceed manually, within a certain deadline date, with the full payment corresponding to the billing period as indicated on the invoice.

Fee Changes

Wizard Stick Studio, LLC, in its sole discretion and at any time, may modify the Subscription fees for the Subscriptions. Any Subscription fee change will become effective at the end of the then-current Billing Cycle.

Wizard Stick Studio, LLC will provide you with a reasonable prior notice of any change in Subscription fees to give you an opportunity to terminate your Subscription before such change becomes effective.

Your continued use of the Service after the Subscription fee change comes into effect constitutes your agreement to pay the modified Subscription fee amount.

Refunds

Except when required by law, paid Subscription fees are non-refundable.
_


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Ghostly said:


> Perry Constantine - nope the checkout page sets out the 'In perpetuity' conditions. I guess you looked at that before you replied. Why the Advocacy here? I am not against the software at all - I said I went to the checkout page to BUY it - it was then that I discovered the conditions that ONLY appear at checkout. No need for Ready Fire Aim at all.


It's not advocacy, it's about setting the record straight. You're going after S&S for something that is standard with subscription models. And those terms don't _only_ appear on the checkout page. On StoryShop's main page, you scroll to the bottom and the terms and conditions are _right_ there. I've linked to them several times in this thread.

Go on. Go to the main page and scroll to the bottom. Second link underneath the resources heading reads very clearly: Terms & Conditions

Wow! Wonder what that could possibly be?

I notice that you still have not answered my question--how is StoryShop different from Skype, from Bluehost, from my VPN, from any number of subscription services that automatically renew every single year? You've made several posts since I asked that question, yet you have not been able to answer it. You're more interested in feigning outrage because people are questioning why a newly registered user has only posted in this thread where they've thrown odd accusations against StoryShop while simultaneously advocating StoryPlanner. It's a bit suspicious.

Oh, and that StoryPlanner program you just happened to stumble upon? They don't have any terms on their website. You're bashing StoryShop for not showing terms until you check out (false, by the way), but StoryPlanner never shows you terms. At all. When you click on the subscription plan, it takes you straight to PayPal and asks for money. Doesn't state if it's a recurring subscription, doesn't state cancellation terms, doesn't state anything.

But StoryPlanner is the above-board one, while StoryShop is apparently shady. Sure, nothing suspicious about your motivations at all.


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