# 3.1 discussions and comments



## jd78 (Dec 8, 2009)

3.1 preview is available and one of the things mentioned in the overview is real page numbers!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_rel_topic?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200529700


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

Looks good. Just waiting for the forums to comment on whether or not the new update will break the jailbreak or screensaver hack.


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## fuschiahedgehog (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm gonna wait a bit too.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Awesome.

And it includes the ISBN of the print version it's getting the page number from so you know which version of the print book to cite!


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## JetJammer (Jan 18, 2009)

I really want to try the patch, but I just got a replacement kindle for one that wasn't working.  I suppose I should make sure the new one really works for a while before I mess it up...

Hmm, although, I actually LIKE the percentage instead of page numbers.  Guess I'm in the minority though.


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## auge_28 (Oct 3, 2010)

Is this only for K3?
I have a K2, are they still supporting it, updating the software?


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

I think, like most electronic devices, that previous generations of Kindle no longer have updates in development.


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## ice-9 (Dec 7, 2010)

Page numbers will be very cool.  This will also make buying from Amazon preferable to other sources of the same book, for those who value the page numbers.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2011)

I just got my K3 on Saturday and I'm no chicken, I'm going to upgrade once I get home


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## beckyj20 (Jun 12, 2010)

Now I wish I had the K3.   I think they should still upgrade the k2's!


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## Sunnie (Apr 3, 2010)

It says it's for latest Gen, meaning K3.


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## jd78 (Dec 8, 2009)

trksh22 said:


> I just checked the ebsite and they have an Early Preview Release software for devices with serial B006 and B00A... whatever those are??


B006 is K3 3G+Wifi

B00A is K3 3G+Wifi European

and

B008 is K3 WiFi


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## Peep (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. You guys are too fast. I caught that it was K3 and deleted my message, only to realize I already had replies.

Whoops! 

The lack of updates really makes me hate the Kindle (but I still love it, if that makes sense). It's just really annoying! I look forward to the hack that will get K2 and K1 users the same features.


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## grizedale (Sep 2, 2010)

StaceyHH said:


> Looks good. Just waiting for the forums to comment on whether or not the new update will break the jailbreak or screensaver hack.


Installed 3.1 and screensaver hack still works fine


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## Neo (Mar 30, 2009)

grizedale said:


> Installed 3.1 and screensaver hack still works fine


Yaayyyy! Thank you for risking it and for letting us know


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## tsrapp (Jan 3, 2011)

Oh this will be nice!!  I'm going to wait for it to go fully live though


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## jhall124 (Dec 2, 2010)

3.1 installed.

I'll keep everyone posted concerning any issues...

I will also post on my blog (http://myfirstereader.blogspot.com).


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## jhall124 (Dec 2, 2010)

jhall124 said:


> 3.1 installed.
> 
> I'll keep everyone posted concerning any issues...
> 
> I will also post on my blog (http://myfirstereader.blogspot.com).


It's only been a few minutes but here's my early preview:

1. I "really" like the new magazine/newspaper layout.
2. Location numbers are replaced by % read (post update books).
3. Custom screensaver pics are "still" there...whew.


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## meljackson (Nov 19, 2008)

Can you only see the page numbers by pressing the menu button?

Melissa


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Also updated and everything looks good.

I haven't found a book yet with page numbers, but I only tried a couple so far.


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

Starting the download..  extremely SLOW so far.


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

grizedale said:


> Installed 3.1 and screensaver hack still works fine


Seconded.

I really like what they've done to the magazine layouts. The Sections & Articles page had a major facelift.

(edit: and yay! I'm no longer in the Jane Austen category... that took a while.)


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## Belle2Be (Aug 29, 2010)

JetJammer said:


> I really want to try the patch, but I just got a replacement kindle for one that wasn't working. I suppose I should make sure the new one really works for a while before I mess it up...
> 
> Hmm, although, I actually LIKE the percentage instead of page numbers. Guess I'm in the minority though.


I like it too. Better than page numbers. Especially when I made my excel sheet, and noticed the locations to page numbers completely varies book by book. Even the same book in different formats (hardback, different ages of paperback) are different. Locations are the same.


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

It's really too bad they don't do something for all those who spent money on the DX.  It's the latest generation large format Kindle, after all.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

i just did the update. I have the 3g + wifi (us) and I had the 3.03 . I did the update, and it updated, restarted, then updated and restarted again. Had me worried but all went well.

The % read is all you see on the bottom of the page of a book unless you hit the menu, after I hit menu it shows page number (a range) and locations. So the % read is still the 1st thing you see. I like that as well.


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

LauraB said:


> i just did the update. I have the 3g + wifi (us) and I had the 3.03 . I did the update, and it updated, restarted, then updated and restarted again. Had me worried but all went well.
> 
> The % read is all you see on the bottom of the page of a book unless you hit the menu, after I hit menu it shows page number (a range) and locations. So the % read is still the 1st thing you see. I like that as well.


Do you have a book with page information in it? I'm not seeing any.


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## karichelle (Dec 28, 2010)

I had to hit Menu and "Goto" to force an already-downloaded book to download the page numbers as well. There was a slight delay before the box came up, and when it did, page was an option, and now the Page shows alongside Location when you hit menu.


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

karichelle said:


> I had to hit Menu and "Goto" to force an already-downloaded book to download the page numbers as well. There was a slight delay before the box came up, and when it did, page was an option, and now the Page shows alongside Location when you hit menu.


I've tried that on a number of books so far, and I'm not seeing any page information. On what book did you get this to work?


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## FSkornia (Feb 22, 2009)

Any other early adopters notice that the 3.1 update plays screwy with the sorting order? I used to be able to have all my collections at the top of the title list in a specific order using special symbols. The underscore (_) still takes precedence, but the 3.1 software seems to ignore the dot (.) and use the first letter after the symbol.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

somehow the books I bought during updating and after updating no longer show up...


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

On the strength one observation, I updated. Works fine for me, screensavers intact, library intact. Woo!


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Basilius said:


> Do you have a book with page information in it? I'm not seeing any.


Yes. The first two I opened have it. Haven't checked others. I opened the book I'm reading and see the %. Then hit menu. What I see then is the big menu box, and the % is there. Next to that, on the same line it says "page 133 of 589*locations 2982 of 13109". Wish I knew how to do a screen shot.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Saw the notice about the update via Kindle Daily Post when I got home from work. Downloaded, copied and updated right away. Took about 5-6 minutes to complete the update and then everything was square. . .still in the middle of my newspaper but working fine so far. I honestly don't care much about page numbers but it will be helpful for those who need to cite things. . . . .

Here's the page at Amazon that tells what else the update encompasses. http://www.kindlepost.com/2011/02/early-preview-of-free-software-update-for-kindle-.html


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

I installed it a few minutes ago.

I'm glad they kept the locations as well as adding page numbers. What's amazing is that you enter a Go To as either a page number or a location. Given their history for only doing things halfway, it was a pleasant surprise.

I'm amazed that page numbers showed up on a relatively obscure book I bought several weeks ago that was published in 1939: _The Problem of the Green Capsule_ by John Dickson Carr.

Now if they would just put justification control back.

Mike


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

kiazishiru said:


> somehow the books I bought during updating and after updating no longer show up...


That happened to me, I had to turn on wireless and sync then they showed up.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

LauraB said:


> That happened to me, I had to turn on wireless and sync then they showed up.


It is generally a good idea to turn on wireless and sync anytime you do a restart or, in this case, an update.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

LauraB said:


> That happened to me, I had to turn on wireless and sync then they showed up.


I always have wireless on, I even rebooted a couple of time with and without wireless on. Turned it on, off everything, synced a couple of times... nothing...


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

FSkornia said:


> Any other early adopters notice that the 3.1 update plays screwy with the sorting order? I used to be able to have all my collections at the top of the title list in a specific order using special symbols. The underscore (_) still takes precedence, but the 3.1 software seems to ignore the dot (.) and use the first letter after the symbol.


My symbols are still working.. I use ` ( and {


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Luvmy4brats said:


> My symbols are still working.. I use ` ( and {


Mine are as well. I use } ~


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## Ctychick (Jan 5, 2011)

So just to clarify, you don't see the page number on the actual page, like you did with percentages and locations? Instead you have to go to  the menu? If so, a definite step in the right direction, but I'd rather see it right on the page like you do in a book. 

Personally, I was getting used to thinking in terms of percentages rather than pages, LOL, but now my book club is 1/2 Kindle users, 1/2 traditional book. Discussing specific passages from a book is much easier if we can all be "on the same page", no pun intended! 

It's nice to know Amazon listens to its customers!


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

they took location off the page and now both page and location show up when you push menu. 
I really like it, less clutter and useless stuff on my page, either percentage or pagenumber is fine with me though, but percentage alone is just fine ^^


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

It shows up on the page after you hit menu. So you can check what page your on without getting out of the book, but can't keep the page number visible as you read.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Ctychick said:


> So just to clarify, you don't see the page number on the actual page, like you did with percentages and locations? Instead you have to go to the menu?


It's just like checking the time. Push Menu, and the time appears at the top, and the locations and page numbers at the bottom.

Mike


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## karichelle (Dec 28, 2010)

Basilius said:


> I've tried that on a number of books so far, and I'm not seeing any page information. On what book did you get this to work?


Bloodroot by Amy Greene


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## RiddleMeThis (Sep 15, 2009)

Can anyone take screenshots and upload them to a photo sharing site so those of us on the fence about the new update can see? 
Thanks!


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

I got page numbers on Empire, The Glass Castle, Drood, Tic Tock, Olive Kiteridge, and Water for Elephants. There were only 4 on my first two screens that don't have page numbers. The three that don't are from mobile reference.


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

Yippeee!!! It's done! I now have the page & loc numbers & loc %!!!
This will be great for students as well as others reading the book together, like book clubs.
I also hope they give this software for the KDXG since that just came out last July. I also hope the older KDX & K2 get it as well. 
Thank You Amazon & this group for letting me know about the update!!! I'm a happy camper.
If anyone does all the other things that this software gives, let us all know how it's done. I see the sharing bit listed in the settings.


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## mikeschr (Dec 7, 2010)

StaceyHH said:


> I think, like most electronic devices, that previous generations of Kindle no longer have updates in development.


That much is true, but what makes Amazon different is they have updates in development for one current device (K3) and not another (DX). You can imagine how this makes DX owners feel.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

mikeschr said:


> That much is true, but what makes Amazon different is they have updates in development for one current device (K3) and not another (DX). You can imagine how this makes DX owners feel.


Well, the DX uses the version 2.X software, which is not the latest generation. I sympathize with your feelings, Maybe they will update the DX to 3.X at some point. I'm a bit puzzled as to what could be that different enough in the hardware to require a different version of the OS.

Mike


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I like the new newspaper layout.

I never had a problem with locations but don't mind that it only shows percentage.  And it's easy to pop up the menu to see what the total is.

Someone said they figured out how to tell what paper version the pages referred to. . . .just curious, but where do you get that info?


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Ann, you have to pull up the book  the isbn number in the description on amazon gives. Can you search for books on amazon by isbn? I've never tried.


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## GMUHistorian (Jul 1, 2009)

I didn't know about this update until Len Edgerly tweeted about it. (If he had it on his last podcast...I'm a little behind...) I can honestly say this made my day. 

I just downloaded the update and it works perfectly. 

As a historian this is absolutely an amazing thing for me. 

Ironically enough, 24 hours ago the Chronicle of Higher Education published an article on this issue. The author wrote, "The Kindle, developed by Amazon, does away with page numbers entirely." It appears the author didn't call Amazon even to see if they'd comment on the issue. The MLA said they were considering whether to "accommodate" location numbers. Now they don't have to.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Someone said they figured out how to tell what paper version the pages referred to. . . .just curious, but where do you get that info?


If you look on the product page of the Kindle store, it will have an entry under Print Length that says:

Page Numbers Source ISBN: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

The ISBN will tell you which DTB the page numbers are from.

Mike


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## ff2 (Oct 20, 2010)

Basilius said:


> I've tried that on a number of books so far, and I'm not seeing any page information. On what book did you get this to work?


Supposedly this newly free one:

http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Folks-Ask-Creatures-ebook/dp/B004DI7IJG/

_--- please do not add your own affiliate codes, even to a freebie_


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## GMUHistorian (Jul 1, 2009)

LauraB said:


> Ann, you have to pull up the book the isbn number in the description on amazon gives. Can you search for books on amazon by isbn? I've never tried.


Yes and it's quite easy. All you have to do is put the ISBN, or the ISBN-13, number in the search box at the top. You actually don't even need to change the category to "books." I just tried this with the ISBN-13 and ISBN numbers for Laura Hillenbrand's Unbroken and Amazon correctly found the book, and nothing else.


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## ireadbooks (Jan 11, 2011)

ff2 said:


> Supposedly this newly free one:
> http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Folks-Ask-Creatures-ebook/dp/B004DI7IJG/?tag=arcadata-20


Um, _so_ not free


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## GMUHistorian (Jul 1, 2009)

Basilius said:


> I've tried that on a number of books so far, and I'm not seeing any page information. On what book did you get this to work?


I've had it work on Dr. James Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me; Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol and Get Some by Daniel Birch.

The only books it appears not to work on are the free classic books. For example, I don't have page numbers for F. Scott Fitzgerald's This Side of Paradise or Tales of the Jazz Age.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2011)

I have to admit this makes me angry. The one thing I really don't like about Amazon is how they toss their previous Kindles aside like garbage as soon as they release a new version. Most other companies support at least one previous generation of their products. Even Microsoft continues to provide updates for previous versions of Windows. It sucks that Amazon won't do the same for us K2 users.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

jmiked said:


> If you look on the product page of the Kindle store, it will have an entry under Print Length that says:
> 
> Page Numbers Source ISBN: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
> 
> ...


Ah! So it's not _on_ the Kindle. . . it's just available information. Gotcha!

Thanks!


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Someone said they figured out how to tell what paper version the pages referred to. . . .just curious, but where do you get that info?


On Amazon, the description of the Kindle version of a paginated ebook includes the ISBN for the book used as page reference.


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## Neekeebee (Jan 10, 2009)

I have to say, I kind of miss the loc. # being listed at the bottom of the page next to the % read.  I wish there were some option to allow that or the page # to show up without my having to hit the Menu button.

N


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## perryluvr (Feb 7, 2010)

JetJammer said:


> Hmm, although, I actually LIKE the percentage instead of page numbers. Guess I'm in the minority though.


You're not alone... I love the percentage too. I don't necessarily need to know what page # I'm on. If you do the update, do you still get the percentage if you want it?


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

If you get the update the percentage is the only thing that shows on the bottom of the page as you read it. You have to hit the menu button to see the locations, and page numbers if available.


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## smwoodcrafts (Jan 19, 2011)

Question before I upgrade. If I do the "jailbreak" for the screen saver hack, then I can upgrade and have the screen saver?

Thanks,
smwoodcrafts


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## gdae23 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks for the alert, and now I've updated too. Thanks especially to you brave folks who tested this out first so I didn't have to wonder what would happen when I tried it! 

After I did the update, I had to turn the wireless on and do a sync before the page numbers showed up, but now I have them on quite a few of the books I bought from Amazon, but not all. It's a nice start, though. I don't have any newspapers on the Kindle at the moment, so I'll have to buy tomorrow's paper and test that part of it out. I like the new options.


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## spotsmom (Jan 20, 2011)

I updated, and my jailbreak was still intact.  Screensavers intact.  Whew!!  It did take me 2 tries to figure out that when I pressed the "Menu" key that the page number was down on the bottom line (next to the percentage).  Don't know where I thought it would be...  Duh...


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## book_lover (Feb 1, 2011)

Am I the only one who feels like this is a step backward? I have marvelled more than once with my brother (both of us fairly recent Kindle 3 owners) at how thoughtfully and intelligently Amazon's engineers implemented various features in the Kindle, in an age when so many devices seem to have glaring issues on a fundamental level -- that you'd think would be obvious to the people who designed them -- that were not addressed before release.

That page numbers are being added is nice. It's not crucial to me, but I certainly don't mind it; and I'm very happy to see that they are still keeping page locations, which I would not want to see go.

But why in the world are they changing it so that you can only see pages/locations by pressing the menu button? I can't believe I'm the only one who likes, whether it's a real book or ebook, to flick my eyes over the page number on every page turn. This should always be displayed, just as it is now!


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## rahrah12 (Jan 28, 2011)

I just updated...at first I only saw the percentage until I read that you have to hit the "menu" button...don't know how I feel about that but I love how they kept locations & the page number.

All of my handful of books has it so far...


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

book_lover said:


> Am I the only one who feels like this is a step backward?


Maybe. 

It's a matter of indifference to me, I don't look at any of those things, except very rarely. I use the percentage figure all the time.

Mike


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## book_lover (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, you could very well be right, Mike. Perhaps I am part of a tiny minority.

I just wish they'd give us a choice on things like this, allowing people to choose how page numbers/locations, etc. are displayed from the settings screen. I don't know anything about the Kindle OS, but I'll bet it wouldn't be that difficult to do, based on the degree to which you can customize settings on other portable devices.


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## bwbollom (Jul 30, 2010)

I always use %...never cared for locations. I am SO glad that they added page numbers. This will take away one of the major things that anti-Kindle people always point to, and will also make citations for books on my K3 so much easier once I start my next research project! Very happy with the update so far!


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## kb7uen Gene (Mar 13, 2009)

The DXG is current and we haven't seen an update for some time.  The page number feature would be very welcome along with the web kit and other features of the Kindle 3, but it seems Amazon has forgotten that there are Kindle 1, 2, DX, and DXG owners out here.  What gives?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over the lack of voice menus in the DXG, in fact, I would see it as a real waste to add it to a Kindle which has such a large display when the Kindle 3 is better suited for that if a Kindle owner can't see.

By the way, for the first time tonight, I read my book on my Samsung Epic Android phone while riding on a dark transit bus.  I had synced my book on the DXG before shutting it down and when I started up Kindle for Android, I immediately synced with the Amazon servers and picked up where I left off on the DXG.  That is really cool to say the least.  The other thing that surprised me was reading with the finger page turning instead of buttons, it was actually very natural and after a very short time, it became something I did without thinking to do it.  Which means that it doesn't have to be a Kindle to forget you're holding a device instead of a book while reading.  This could explain some of what has the publishers so jumpy and afraid of the whole ereader and ebook change that has taken place.  They can't control the fact that a person can read and forget they are holding a device.

Gene


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm frustrated.. it just won't download on my laptop.. never had that problem before.. just churns at 0% and eventually says it cannot downlod


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

Seamonkey said:


> I'm frustrated.. it just won't download on my laptop.. never had that problem before.. just churns at 0% and eventually says it cannot downlod


it might be too busy right now...

And my books showed up 4 hours after I ordered them... I think they are just a bit too busy with the update right now...


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## Fireheart223 (Oct 3, 2010)

LauraB said:


> i just did the update. I have the 3g + wifi (us) and I had the 3.03 . I did the update, and it updated, restarted, then updated and restarted again. Had me worried but all went well.
> 
> The % read is all you see on the bottom of the page of a book unless you hit the menu, after I hit menu it shows page number (a range) and locations. So the % read is still the 1st thing you see. I like that as well.


I've actually come to prefer the % read, so I'm glad that hasn't changed


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Purely a hypothesis, maybe somebody else can confirm or prove me wrong...

In order to work page numbers properly and accurately, there must be some sort of lookup table within the book that links location number to page number. This is necessary to allow for variations in pagination (eg short pages at ends of chapters, diagrams, intentional page breaks etc). It can't be done by a simple calculation of (say) 1 page for every 6 locations.

Therefore there is a small (but significant) amount of work the Kindle has to do to find and display the page number. In view of the fact that the Kindle developers have been working hard to increase page turn speed, maybe they decided that they didn't want to add this overhead to the processing for every single page turn to get and display information that (no disrepect to book_lover) very few people look at very often.

We expect page turns to be almost instantaneous, and would complain if it was (say) 0.1 second slower. We accept that pressing the menu button takes a moment to bring the menu up, and if it takes 0.1 second longer we don't care.

Thoughts, anybody?


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I installed the update, but most of the books I'm reading these days are from sources other than Amazon, so I haven't seen the pages.  Doesn't really matter to me as long as I have locations, percentage and can search for text. I did look at one book I'd bought from Amazon and the page numbers option was grayed out.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks:  I've merged a couple of threads on substantially the same topic. . . .please don't start new threads to discuss aspects of the 3.1 update.

Discussion of inability to or a potential way to (eventually) do the sleep picture and font modifications after the update is in Tips Tricks and Troubleshooting.


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## CoffeeCat (Sep 13, 2010)

JetJammer said:


> Hmm, although, I actually LIKE the percentage instead of page numbers. Guess I'm in the minority though.


While there are some instances where I wouldn't mind having page numbers, I also like the locations percentage better.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> .....Someone said they figured out how to tell what paper version the pages referred to. . . .just curious, but where do you get that info?


Look on the Amazon product page for any Kindle book, if under 'product details' it includes "Page Numbers Source ISBN: xxxxxxxxxxx" and gives you a number, that tells you the exact edition the page numbers match. If that's not there, then there probably won't be page numbers available on Kindle for that book.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

I downloaded the update last night - on all  the  books I opened (all bought at Amazon)  -  I  still see %'s -  and when I hit  MENU (while my wireless is on) - I don't  get Page numbers.   Are there only certain books where this works?  What determines  that?


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

book_lover said:


> Am I the only one who feels like this is a step backward? ...
> But why in the world are they changing it so that you can only see pages/locations by pressing the menu button? I can't believe I'm the only one who likes, whether it's a real book or ebook, to flick my eyes over the page number on every page turn. This should always be displayed, just as it is now!


I think that the issue is that some people would want to see percent, some want to see page numbers, some want to see locations (since people have gotten used to that). It would be too cluttered to show ALL of this on the bottom line. So they show only percent (the most popular, probably) and the rest you see with menu. Of course, the best option would be if there were settings where you could decide what to display. But Amazon has been resistant to giving a lot of settings and choices, probably because they want to keep it simple for technophobes.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

I have books this morning that show page numbers that didn't last night. I left the 3g on last night. I wonder if you has to do something, like indexing, to get them in the books?


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Morf said:


> Purely a hypothesis, maybe somebody else can confirm or prove me wrong...
> 
> In order to work page numbers properly and accurately, there must be some sort of lookup table within the book that links location number to page number.


I don't know about mobi files, but with ePubs, I've looked at the "guts" of the HTML that is the basis of ePub, and there are html tags that are used to indicate page numbers. If a device doesn't have the software to display the page numbers, these tags just don't get used. Each device can choose how to use or not use the info.

One thing I wonder about is that the content of one screen could have words from two different pages. If you were citing something, you might cite the wrong page, though it would be pretty close. Also I guess you could increase the text size until just a few words of what you are citing fill the screen, then your page number is correct.

I am happy with how they did this. I guess I'd be happiest if they gave the option of page number on the screen while reading, but I am glad they don't force us to have BOTH page numbers and locations while reading - too cluttered.

*Periodicals:*
Although I was happy with the title bar going away on the K3, to make things less cluttered and have more lines of text on the screen, I'm strangely not as excited about the title bar going away on periodicals. I kind of liked periodicals looking different than books, with the title bar as a kind of masthead. It does allow one extra line of text (I happen to have two K3s here, one updated, one not, if anyone wants comparison screenshots - just ask). I do like the new section pages in periodicals. At first I was concerned when I couldn't find the issue date, which used to always be in the title bar. It wasn't there, and wasn't there when I pressed menu. But it shows up if you press the center of the 5-way (which brings up the sections page).


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

LauraB said:


> I have books this morning that show page numbers that didn't last night. I left the 3g on last night. I wonder if you has to do something, like indexing, to get them in the books?


Ok - I didn't leave my wireless on overnight. Will try that.

Just turned wireless back on and checked again. Grisham's Confession now has page numbers. I like it. Shows % all the time, and when I hit Menu -I get page numbers and location numbers.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

One more thought about periodicals. The progress bar at the bottom used to represent one section, with dots marking the divisions of that section into articles. Now the progress bar represents only that article. I guess I like that. Whether you like it or not might depend on what you are reading. With my Asimov Sci Fi, I'm reading short stories and novellas, so I do like that the progress bar shows me how far through that story I am, rather than how far through that section (with lots of stories) I am. It makes it easier to see how far from the end I am. Some people might prefer the way it was, if they are reading something with very well defined sections, and want to know how far through that section they are.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

I notice they've simplified the locations too. It used to display the first and last location on the page (with the total locations on the right) but this was confusing people because the last location was only partially displayed so it might show "Locations 1120-42" which represented locations 1120 to 1142. Now it only seems to show the first location on the page and the total (ie, Location 1120 of 3124) - it's less specific but also less confusing. Of course if they'd just displayed it as 1120-1142 it also would have been less confusing.   Not that I look at locations much anyway, I tend to stick to the percentage.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Got the update. Since I had to restart to get the update working I took the opportunity to change some of my sleep-pics too. Everything works fine - firmware updated, new sleep-pics are showing up.  Noticed that when I do a "Go To" "Pages" is an option (although currently grayed out).

Can someone give us some titles of books that have page numbers? I haven't run across any currently on my K that have that option.  Thanks!


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

I listed several higher in thread, I read other titles in the thread along the way. I'm on iPhone, otherwise I'd type them out again.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

Are they abandoning locations, or just adding page numbers when available? After all, we indies often don't have a print edition to reference for page numbers.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Adding page numbers when available.


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## smwoodcrafts (Jan 19, 2011)

Not sure I want to upgrade to 3.1 as I've heard it doesn't allow jailbreaking after loading. I just jailbroke mine install the screensaver hack and noticed I was running 3.0.2. can someone direct me to 3.0.3 firmware. Everything on Amazon is 3.1.

smwoodcrafts


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

R. Reed said:


> Are they abandoning locations, or just adding page numbers when available? After all, we indies often don't have a print edition to reference for page numbers.


^ THIS ^

They preferred to stay with the % because books that did not have hardcopy equivalents don't usually have pagenumbers, thus rendering pagenumbers useless.

So in theory all the ebooks with hardcopy (paperback or hardcover) editions should start showing page numbers, and those without hardcopy editions should not show them (unless added by the creator of the file before putting it online)
Plus give em some time to implement the pagenumbers to the vast amount of ebooks they have.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

It just occurred to me - I assume page numbers will only work on book bought from Amazon? As I mentioned earlier, ePub files do have real page number tags... not sure how mobi handles it.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

They aren't abandoning locations, they just moved them to the menu. When I open a book I see a % read, I have to hit the menu while in the book and then I see locations on every book. I only see page numbers on books it is available. But I do have page numbers available on books this morning that didn't have them yesterday.


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## flutterby (Aug 11, 2010)

LauraB said:


> I have books this morning that show page numbers that didn't last night. I left the 3g on last night. I wonder if you has to do something, like indexing, to get them in the books?


I haven't checked my kindle yet, but I would guess that because on amazon last night, the update was listed as a preview, each day more books will begin to show the page numbers. Or, maybe that's just wishful thinking?


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## Matt C (Feb 8, 2011)

Hi gang. I found out about this update last night and ran it before going to bed. It all went fine. I've only got one book so far which has page numbers (naturally, that would be Joshua's book on Kindle Formatting!).

So this is now driving me nuts... seeing as I've been toying with making eBooks this last week, does anyone know what the HTML tag/code is to insert page numbers? I'm happy with my formatting results, but this'll make me _really_ happy!


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

I left mine to try the download again at midnight pacific but it timed out eventually.


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## stormhawk (Apr 29, 2009)

JetJammer said:


> Hmm, although, I actually LIKE the percentage instead of page numbers. Guess I'm in the minority though.


no, you're not. I'm fine with locations and page numbers. Heck, I have a kindle 1, used to hand-calculate percentage and then page number for listing progress on goodreads.

It's not losing a percentage, it's gaining a page number (for some books).

3.1 install was seamless. Haven't hit any books with enabled page numbers yet, though. I guess I'll have to read something popular.


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## PraiseGod13 (Oct 27, 2008)

I've gotten used to locations.... and definitely like %.  I got the update last night but still haven't found a book that shows page numbers when I click on menu and "Go to".  "Page" is there.... but always gray (not bold so I can choose it).


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## guybell (Feb 3, 2011)

The new update took just slightly longer than my last (3.0.3) but installed perfectly. Not all books have the page numbered option and it may be grayed out. "The Girl Who Kicked The Hornets' Nest" is page numbered if anyone wants to test their update.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Reading this thread has gotten me to at least download the update to my computer. I am a waffler  . Heck, I had just about talked myself into putting 3.03 beta on after weeks and weeks of waffling and now there is this one   

Life and updates just pass me by because I can't make my mind up


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Atunah said:


> Life and updates just pass me by because I can't make my mind up


No point being in a rush when dealing with Kindle updates considering you're not able to revert them. I've applied the 3.1 update to my Kindle and it all seems fine excluding the lack of jailbreak and hacks for others. I've still got full access to this Kindle but others won't.


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## Edge (Mar 6, 2009)

I am pleased with the update. I think this is a good move forward, and I like that Amazon is listening to the user base.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't do any jailbreaks or hacks, I have no interest in them so mine is "clean". 

I am still thinking


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Atunah said:


> I don't do any jailbreaks or hacks, I have no interest in them so mine is "clean".
> 
> I am still thinking


In that case then I'd say just wait a couple days to see if there are any showstopper bugs that have slipped past Amazon. 3.0.1 looked fine and even went to release status with automatic upgrades but it had some slowdown issues caused by temperature sensitivity.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Matt C said:


> So this is now driving me nuts... seeing as I've been toying with making eBooks this last week, does anyone know what the HTML tag/code is to insert page numbers? I'm happy with my formatting results, but this'll make me _really_ happy!


I'm pretty sure that the page numbers aren't actually encoded in the book itself, as none of the books on my K3 that now have page numbers were re-downloaded.

I suspect that the process is that at some point the ISBN is used to acquire the number of pages from the printed book info Amazon, and the percentage information (displayed at the bottom of the Kindle screen) is used to calculate the page number. The page count is probably stored in a file on the Kindle, either in the system folder or maybe in the file that contains the last page read.

When you do a restart or resync, the OS probably grabs all the page number counts for the books you have on your Kindle. This info may even be aggregated in your account.

All hypothesis, of course.

Mike


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

jmiked said:


> The page count is probably stored in a file on the Kindle, either in the system folder or maybe in the file that contains the last page read.


A .apnx file will appear for any eBooks which have page numbers.

Sherlock Holmes - The Adventure of Wisteria Lodge is a free book that has support for page numbers. What is odd is that it lists "Print Length: 68 pages" on the Amazon.com page but the Kindle has it as 31 pages. This may just be a side effect of "This book was converted from its physical edition to the digital format by a community of volunteers."


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## MeganW (Dec 28, 2008)

Also neat bonus feature, if you download a sample of a book that has page numbers, the samples have them too. This is great b/c it shows the actual number of pages in the sample. I just downloaded a sample of Stephen King's book, It, and it displayed pages 1-71. When I went to page 71, that was the last page in the sample.

And by the way, that's a very nice-sized sample! 71 pages of the actual novel, not including everything else in the beginning -- cover, reviews, table of contents, etc.


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

Seamonkey said:


> I'm frustrated.. it just won't download on my laptop.. never had that problem before.. just churns at 0% and eventually says it cannot downlod





Seamonkey said:


> I left mine to try the download again at midnight pacific but it timed out eventually.


I'm having the same problem. Guess I'll try again later.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Well its updating right now. I just put it aside and leave it alone for a while. I didn't have any issues transferring the file, it only took seconds really.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

MeganW said:


> Also neat bonus feature, if you download a sample of a book that has page numbers, the samples have them too. This is great b/c it shows the actual number of pages in the sample. I just downloaded a sample of Stephen King's book, It, and it displayed pages 1-71. When I went to page 71, that was the last page in the sample.
> 
> And by the way, that's a very nice-sized sample! 71 pages of the actual novel, not including everything else in the beginning -- cover, reviews, table of contents, etc.


Ahh. Thats great if the samples can also contain page numbers. Also great that "It" is 71 pages. I've had samples which just gave you the preface + TOC and thats it!


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Atunah said:


> Well its updating right now. I just put it aside and leave it alone for a while. I didn't have any issues transferring the file, it only took seconds really.


It'll take a few minutes to do the update. As with the previous updates, it'll claim that its successfully applied the update several times and also restart a few times. Just leave it alone until it gets back to the contents home screen.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I think all went well, it just rebuilt the home screen filling up my collections. I turned on Wifi now and will not touch it as I assume it will do some sync and stuff so I'll let it do its thing first. 

I did copy my kindle folder first to the desktop just in case. I have a mix of amazon and non amazon books, but it would give me at least an idea what books I had on there to re load if needed. 


eta: First thing I notice, its much snappier. Moving around is snappy now. I never got the 3.03 so I had the "old" 3.02. Meaning I put on 3.02 way back to fix the slow page turns some of us had in September. Or whenever it was.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Just a tip about the new periodicals layout. When you have the different sections listed in the left column, and you highlight one, and the articles in that section are listed on the right, if there are more articles that can fit, there are "next" and "prev" links at the bottom of the list. But you don't need to move the cursor all the way down there. The next and back page turn buttons do the same thing. I discovered this by accident.


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## sparklemotion (Jan 13, 2011)

Nice update! I like having page numbers, so will definitely be applying this when I get home from work. yay!


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## ApK (Feb 4, 2011)

Edge said:


> I am pleased with the update. I think this is a good move forward, and I like that Amazon is listening to the user base.


I'm not.
As I said on another forum, I find it hard to believe that Kindle users were clamoring for advertising at the end of all their books ("recommendations") and these other ways to get the Internet's nose in their business, without even the choice to turn the new feature off and preserve the reading experience they signed up for.
New features can be fine, but I'm looking for updates that improve the functionality and performance of the features I bought the Kindle for.

I'd suggest that anyone who has an opinion on the matter, pro or con, send an email to
[email protected]
and tell Amazon what they think.

ApK


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## Kristan Hoffman (Aug 6, 2009)

I've only had my Kindle since xmas, so I've never gone through a software update before. I know this is an "early preview" release, so does that mean when it's "finalized," they will notify people or suggest that we update? Or is it completely up to us users to learn about updates and decide whether or not to do them?

Just wondering, thanks!
Kristan


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Kristan Hoffman said:


> I've only had my Kindle since xmas, so I've never gone through a software update before. I know this is an "early preview" release, so does that mean when it's "finalized," they will notify people or suggest that we update? Or is it completely up to us users to learn about updates and decide whether or not to do them?


If it is an early preview release then they just put it on the website and you go there to do a manual update if you want to try it.

If it turns into a regular release then they'll auto upgrade any Kindle that has wireless left on but its not done in one big load. They do it by batches over a couple weeks so your Kindle may not be immediately upgraded.

The upgrade process is a bit odd and slightly worrying the first time you do it as it actually says it has successfully updated then it reboots and starts the upgrade process again which now takes longer to do. It'll say successful again and restart yet again. It is totally finished when its back at the home screen where you select the book you want to read.

You can't downgrade on a Kindle 3. You can only go to a higher version. Its not possible to go back to a previous version.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

Kristan Hoffman said:


> so does that mean when it's "finalized," they will notify people or suggest that we update? Or is it completely up to us users to learn about updates and decide whether or not to do them?
> 
> Just wondering, thanks!
> Kristan


If you leave your Kindle in sleep mode with Wireless turned on, Amazon will eventually push down the update.. When you turn on the Kindle -if that happened - if you hit MENU/SETTINGS/MENU while on the HOME page - you will see "Update your Kindle" not greyed out.

Having said that - it has never happened to me. I always did it manually.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

bordercollielady said:


> If you leave your Kindle in sleep mode with Wireless turned on, Amazon will eventually push down the update.. When you turn on the Kindle -if that happened - if you hit MENU/SETTINGS while on the HOME page - you will see "Update your Kindle" not greyed out.


That option in the menu is only for the manual update you do by copying the update onto the Kindle. The auto update which downloads itself over wireless starts by itself. My Kindle went from 3.0 to 3.0.1 sometime during the early hours of the morning so by the time I woke it, it had already upgraded.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

Tiersten said:


> That option in the menu is only for the manual update you do by copying the update onto the Kindle. The auto update which downloads itself over wireless starts by itself. My Kindle went from 3.0 to 3.0.1 sometime during the early hours of the morning so by the time I woke it, it had already upgraded.


hah! Sorry - shows that it has never happened to me...


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

ApK said:


> I'm not.
> As I said on another forum, I find it hard to believe that Kindle users were clamoring for advertising at the end of all their books ("recommendations")


I don't know about that. Paperbacks always have several pages of ads for other books at the end, I've always liked that. I've found some of my best reads that way.


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## Kristan Hoffman (Aug 6, 2009)

Tiersten said:


> If it is an early preview release then they just put it on the website and you go there to do a manual update if you want to try it.
> 
> If it turns into a regular release then they'll auto upgrade any Kindle that has wireless left on but its not done in one big load. They do it by batches over a couple weeks so your Kindle may not be immediately upgraded.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation/warning, haha. I'll probably let it auto-update, then.

Speaking of which... My K3 wifi is currently at 3.0.2, but I know there's a 3.0.3 out there, right? So does that mean I never got upgraded b/c I typically have my wifi turned off? Or was 3.0.3. just a beta?

As for 3.1 features, I'm pretty happy about page numbers, although I'm less excited to hear that they/the locations are not always visible. I wonder what the rationale for that is.

The ads/recommendations at the end don't bother me, because just like the reading discussion questions and whatnot, I probably just won't look at them.

And I don't read periodicals, so I guess I'll never know what the "old" layout looked like. 

Has anyone noticed changes to anything beside the highlighted features? (Like maybe the web browser experience or something?) Just curious.

Kristan


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Kristan Hoffman said:


> Speaking of which... My K3 wifi is currently at 3.0.2, but I know there's a 3.0.3 out there, right? So does that mean I never got upgraded b/c I typically have my wifi turned off? Or was 3.0.3. just a beta?


3.0.3 never left Early Preview status so it never got pushed out for auto update.



Kristan Hoffman said:


> Has anyone noticed changes to anything beside the highlighted features? (Like maybe the web browser experience or something?) Just curious.


They've updated quite a lot of the stuff inside and people are reporting it does feel faster in general. The majority of the changes appear to be bug fixes and not new features. As you're currently on 3.0.2, the browser has gotten some important fixes in 3.0.3 and 3.1 such as the ability to type in text boxes which wasn't reliable in 3.0.2. People weren't able to log into the mobile Gmail page on 3.0.2 as an example.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

bordercollielady said:


> hah! Sorry - shows that it has never happened to me...


 No need to know for most people anyway! It should just work and do whatever is necessary.


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## Kristan Hoffman (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks, Tiersten!! I feel like you're my own personal Amazon answer buddy. 

Kristan


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

ApK said:


> ...and these other ways to get the Internet's nose in their business, without even the choice to turn the new feature off and preserve the reading experience they signed up for.....
> I'd suggest that anyone who has an opinion on the matter, pro or con, send an email to
> [email protected]
> and tell Amazon what they think.
> ...


I like that they added the option to turn off having your underlining and annotations, so they aren't public unless you want it to be. I don't care about the recommendations at the end of books as long as they stay there. It is easy to ignore.


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## sparklemotion (Jan 13, 2011)

LauraB said:


> I like that they added the option to turn off having your underlining and annotations, so they aren't public unless you want it to be. I don't care about the recommendations at the end of books as long as they stay there. It is easy to ignore.


Same here, I don't mind, I'll just ignore them same as I did in paperbacks. I upgraded and it went off without a hitch, yay. It went fairly quickly too. I love having the page numbers. Every book I checked of mine has them.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Ok, I am really really loving the new layout for magazines. I get Readers digest and I used to get it in paper. What I liked about it there was that I could just simple go to whatever sections I wanted to read first. Sometimes I just want to read the funny stories. On the Kindle it was ok, but it was not as easy to find this. It wasn't listed nice enough for that. Now its is so simple and everything is there on one page. Now when I go up and down on the left column, it gives me all the pieces within that section on the right column without having to click around. Just using the arrows on the 5 way. 

This is way more fun now reading it. 

I also kind of like the "before you go" feature. I could care less about the facebook or twitter thing,  I don't do either, but I do like the list of what others bought that bought this book and other books by same author. 
I think this would be a neat way for publishers to put in other authors that write in the same genre maybe then the book you just read. 
Right now its just the what others bought and other books. I like it and its just a page not intrusive or anything. Just like it was the last page in a book with clickable web links so you get the Hand of Kindle.  

As long as they don't use it to give me female viagra ads after reading a romance I am cool  

And my Kindle is still a lot snappier  

Me happy so far


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## AndyP (Dec 28, 2010)

ice-9 said:


> Page numbers will be very cool. This will also make buying from Amazon preferable to other sources of the same book, for those who value the page numbers.


ePub supports page numbers. All my wife's purchased content on her nook show page numbers.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

I did an update and it went smoothly.  I like that we now have page numbers, but I wish they were there the whole time, instead of having to hit Menu to see them.


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## AndyP (Dec 28, 2010)

Does anyone know if the page number information is in the azw file, or is the Kindle pulling down extra information?  I tend to unswindle my purchases and am wondering if I will lose page number information.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Best as I can tell it is NOT embedded in the file.  It's information that the Kindle somehow gets from Amazon. My basis for this conclusion is that you won't see page information unless you've turned on wireless.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

AndyP said:


> Does anyone know if the page number information is in the azw file, or is the Kindle pulling down extra information? I tend to unswindle my purchases and am wondering if I will lose page number information.


Yes, it does appear as if it's information that is not embedded in the original file because if it were - we'd all have to re-download all of our books. But when we downloaded all of our books through the current update, the page numbers were not an option.


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## berfles (Sep 22, 2010)

I was extremely excited about page numbers because locations are stupid.  I did the update, turned wireless on, and synced/checked for updates for my books and get no pages.  So The Stand, Swan Song, and a new one I just bought have no page numbers?

Pretty useless for me, yay.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

The page numbers are strange. The look like they refer to a specific location. I did a "Go To..." page 3 with a small font size and back paged three times to the first page, no problem.  Greatly increased the font size and did a "Go To ..." page 3 again. It took me to the same place and took me 7 back pages to get to the first page.  Interesting.


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## RiddleMeThis (Sep 15, 2009)

HappyGuy said:


> The page numbers are strange. The look like they refer to a specific location. I did a "Go To..." page 3 with a small font size and back paged three times to the first page, no problem. Greatly increased the font size and did a "Go To ..." page 3 again. It took me to the same place and took me 7 back pages to get to the first page. Interesting.


They refer to the pages in a specific edition of the printed work. Its not 3 Kindle pages, its 3 PRINT pages.


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## AndyP (Dec 28, 2010)

DYB said:


> Yes, it does appear as if it's information that is not embedded in the original file because if it were - we'd all have to re-download all of our books. But when we downloaded all of our books through the current update, the page numbers were not an option.


Not really. The page numbers could be in the file, but we've never been able to see them due to firmware limitations. I'll have to unswindle a azw into a mobi file and see if I keep my page numbers.


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## berfles (Sep 22, 2010)

Are they going to be adding page numbers to books all periodically or is whatever they have right now all there's going to be?  I'm still annoyed that none of mine even have page numbers.


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

It isn't a case of being patient.  I've tried two computers now (on the same network, though) and left one update running overnight even but it just times out.. never gets above 0%.

And I have never had a problem grabbing an update.. K1, K2, DX, K3, I've had some automatic updates but more that I've pushed, plus one on K3 that the Amazon CS pushed directly to my K3 because of a very early problem I got to test.

So, frustrating for sure.


But I can still read and really didn't miss page numbers anyway.  I just like to be with the latest update.


----------



## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

I got the 0 thing when I tried to save it to documents on my computer, so what I did was just click run or open?, & then I see that it is supposed to download to a folder that I can't find. Then, I save it once again to documents on my computer. It finally works. I will always get the message that it's too big a file for AOL to open. Just click "okay".        Whatever that means, I don't care, because it will eventually download. 
After all that, I drag & drop the 3.1 to the kindle, a space (or in my case, the word kindle) that is just above the documents, audible, etc. folders. Then, I eject kindle, click menu, settings, menu, download, okay & the kindle dowes the rest.
Hope I did not confuse you.


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## MartyS (Feb 3, 2011)

Just did the update.

The browser seems faster when loading complex pages.

I'm seeing page numbers on a few of my books, some new some old.

I could do without the % or locations or page numbers on the screen all the time, just show me the bar along the bottom and move all the numbers to the menu button.  I'm sure everyone has their own preference for this so it really should be an option, I'd say add it to the aA key menu along with font size and text to speech.


----------



## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm holding off on the update for a while as there's nothing that I'm desperate to get. The 'public notes' and 'before you go' features are of no interest, the periodicals changes will be nice but the page numbers don't bother me. I have no need to cite them and as long as I can see how far through a book I am, I don't care if it's percentage, locations or pages. (Also with about half my reading material being non-Amazon the feature won't work for those anyway).

What I _am_ concerned about is what I read elsewhere on KB yesterday that once you have the update, not only can you not install the jailbreak or a hack but if, like me, you already have one on, you can't _uninstall_ it. What happens if the next update can't be put on at all until you uninstall your hacks (as has happened before) but the uninstaller no longer works? I think I'd like to wait and see what our technical geniuses come up with first.


----------



## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

okay I am embarrassed to ask... but how do I update to this new 3.1 you all talk about? I went to 'Manage my kindle" but see nothing of an update. Am I missing something? if it weren't for you guys and KindleBoards I wouldn't know there was an update. Shouldn't Amazon have told me

So could someone guide me as to where to find the link? and then what do I do? do I download to my computer, then when I sync my kindle the update will occur? Thanks!!


----------



## WilliamM (Feb 10, 2009)

Bonbonlover said:


> okay I am embarrassed to ask... but how do I update to this new 3.1 you all talk about? I went to 'Manage my kindle" but see nothing of an update. Am I missing something? if it weren't for you guys and KindleBoards I wouldn't know there was an update. Shouldn't Amazon have told me
> 
> So could someone guide me as to where to find the link? and then what do I do? do I download to my computer, then when I sync my kindle the update will occur? Thanks!!


if you are a facebook user they announce things on the kindle facebook page. Thats where i usually hear about updates and such first


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Linjeakel said:


> What I _am_ concerned about is what I read elsewhere on KB yesterday that once you have the update, not only can you not install the jailbreak or a hack but if, like me, you already have one on, you can't _uninstall_ it. What happens if the next update can't be put on at all until you uninstall your hacks (as has happened before) but the uninstaller no longer works? I think I'd like to wait and see what our technical geniuses come up with first.


Yes. 3.1 disables the jailbreak installation and the installation of non official updates i.e. hacks. The uninstall packages for the hacks are actually packaged up as an update. This means whatever is on the Kindle will stay on the Kindle with 3.1 as you are currently not able to remove it.


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## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

Fuzzy Dunlop said:


> if you are a facebook user they announce things on the kindle facebook page. Thats where i usually hear about updates and such first


nope, I don't do facebook. It seems like there should be some link or mention on Amazon's manage your kindle page... but I don't see any.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Bonbonlover said:


> okay I am embarrassed to ask... but how do I update to this new 3.1 you all talk about? I went to 'Manage my kindle" but see nothing of an update.


Go to the Amazon firmware page for the K3 and just follow the instructions there. Early Preview releases don't automatically get sent out and applied to all K3s. You have to do it manually. If they change it a normal release then it will slowly get sent out to all K3s in batches.



Bonbonlover said:


> So could someone guide me as to where to find the link? and then what do I do? do I download to my computer, then when I sync my kindle the update will occur? Thanks!!


Download the relevant file for your model of K3. Plug in your K3. Copy the file and put it into the root of the K3 so not documents etc... Eject your K3. Go to the menu and select update. It'll take a few minutes to do and will say it is successfully completed more than once and also reboot more than once. When the Kindle is back at the collections page then its done.


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## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

Tiersten thank you so much!!!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

berfles said:


> I was extremely excited about page numbers because locations are stupid.


Well, I'd disagree with that.  Locations make a lot of sense I think when there are 8 different sizes of print. A location always refers to the same place in the text, no matter how big the the print on the page, and is actually more specific than just a page reference.

That said, for those who need to cite from books, having page numbers and info about what edition they refer to will be useful. I expect that Amazon is working on getting reference editions linked as quickly as possible. But the update isn't even an official release yet. . . .

Also, remember that a lot of indie books are never released in print so may never have a paper edition to reference for page numbers. 

Incidentally, here's a link to the page at Amazon where you can find 3.1 if you want to install it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=help_search_T1_1-4?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200529700&qid=1297254546&sr=1-4


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Well, I'd disagree with that.  Locations make a lot of sense I think when there are 8 different sizes of print. A location always refers to the same place in the text, no matter how big the the print on the page, and is actually more specific than just a page reference....


I'd have to agree with Ann on this. I can understand if you need to cite page numbers in a report etc or if you're reading/working alongside someone else who's using the paper version, that page numbers can be extremely useful. But locations aren't "stupid" - if like me you just want to know how far along you are in a book, what's left, how long the book is, how much you've read that day etc, then pages, locations or percentages will all do the job quite easily and in fact I'd say that locations are slightly more precise. Each version of a printed book will be slightly different from another - small PB, large PB, HB etc - but on everyone's Kindle, be it K1, 2 or 3 or even DX and whatever font size, line spacing etc is being used, a location will always be the same. I think it's a pretty clever idea myself.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

The page numbers aren't embedded in the file. Books with page numbers have a new .apnx file that gets downloaded. There's also an .ea file that gets downloaded for the rating stuff at the end.


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## ApK (Feb 4, 2011)

Linjeakel said:


> I'd have to agree with Ann on this. I can understand if you need to cite page numbers in a report etc or if you're reading/working alongside someone else who's using the paper version, that page numbers can be extremely useful. But locations aren't "stupid" - if like me you just want to know how far along you are in a book, what's left, how long the book is, how much you've read that day etc, then pages, locations or percentages will all do the job quite easily and in fact I'd say that locations are slightly more precise. Each version of a printed book will be slightly different from another - small PB, large PB, HB etc - but on everyone's Kindle, be it K1, 2 or 3 or even DX and whatever font size, line spacing etc is being used, a location will always be the same. I think it's a pretty clever idea myself.


Absolutely. In a few years, as ebooks continue gain in popularity, I predict academic citations will need to be in some standardized location form, like character or word count.
You'll hear "You cited a PAGE NUMBER? That's stupid! Where am I going to dig up some archaic paper edition of that book?!?"

ApK


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## berfles (Sep 22, 2010)

Linjeakel said:


> I'd have to agree with Ann on this. I can understand if you need to cite page numbers in a report etc or if you're reading/working alongside someone else who's using the paper version, that page numbers can be extremely useful. But locations aren't "stupid" - if like me you just want to know how far along you are in a book, what's left, how long the book is, how much you've read that day etc, then pages, locations or percentages will all do the job quite easily and in fact I'd say that locations are slightly more precise. Each version of a printed book will be slightly different from another - small PB, large PB, HB etc - but on everyone's Kindle, be it K1, 2 or 3 or even DX and whatever font size, line spacing etc is being used, a location will always be the same. I think it's a pretty clever idea myself.


I constantly look through the physical copy of a book just to see what page I'm actually on, I've read books my whole life with pages and I just like knowing. I like the percentages too, but I'll never like locations, and hopefully Amazon gets many more books to be compatible in the near future.


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## grjag (Jun 18, 2009)

For the casual reader, I really like Marty's suggestion for the future (ie: being able to choose in the menu which you would like displayed--percentage, locations, or page numbers).  I doubt I will use the page number option very often.  I've gotten used to the percentages.


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## BruceS (Feb 7, 2009)

In spite of the fact that amazon warns that the update will not install if any hacks have been applied, I tried it with the screen-saver one still installed.

The update installed with no problems and I still see my own pictures when the K3 goes into sleep mode.

I don't know whether the uninstall script for the screen-saver would still work, but I doubt it. 

I also don't know whether the update would install if you had the font hack installed. I found the fonts supplied with 3.0.2 good enough and never tried to install the font hack.

Edit: I now see that this has already been mentioned in Tips, Tricks & Troubleshooting.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

berfles said:


> I constantly look through the physical copy of a book just to see what page I'm actually on, I've read books my whole life with pages and I just like knowing.


As do I. It also provides a sense of the size of the book.

Locations do this as well but the numbers are so large and mount so quickly they still almost appear random.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

berfles said:


> I constantly look through the physical copy of a book just to see what page I'm actually on, I've read books my whole life with pages and I just like knowing. I like the percentages too, but I'll never like locations, and hopefully Amazon gets many more books to be compatible in the near future.


The thing with page numbers is that they change depending on which version of the book you're reading.. are you reading the hardback, trade paperback, or the mass market paperback? Each one of those has a different number of pages.. at least with locations, there's one version and it doesn't change.


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## MartyS (Feb 3, 2011)

Elk said:


> As do I. It also provides a sense of the size of the book.
> 
> Locations do this as well but the numbers are so large and mount so quickly they still almost appear random.


I quickly got used to the dotted line under each title that lets you know what the size of the book is, but it is nice to now have that linked to actual pages.

If they are going to keep something displayed on top of the progress bar all the time, I'd say put the last page number or last location on the right side, and keep the percentage to the left (although it's not that hard to figure out the percentage from looking at the progress bar). Then they can just have a simple menu option for which number to put on the right (page or location).


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## LaRita (Oct 28, 2008)

Luvmy4brats said:


> The page numbers aren't embedded in the file. Books with page numbers have a new .apnx file that gets downloaded. There's also an .ea file that gets downloaded for the rating stuff at the end.


So I'm wondering, how much space do all these extra files eat? I have over 800 books, and adding several hundred extra files (even small ones) seems like it could significantly reduce the total space available for more books. Just a thought.


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## Elk (Oct 4, 2010)

The files are tiny.

And with only 800 books you have a long way to go before running into a space issue.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I have some epub readers (Sony, Nook, Bookeen) and have noticed that the page numbers are not the same as the pages in a paper book.  There are many fewer pages in the epub edition than in the paper books, whether hard cover or paperback.


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## Matt C (Feb 8, 2011)

Luvmy4brats said:


> The page numbers aren't embedded in the file. Books with page numbers have a new .apnx file that gets downloaded. There's also an .ea file that gets downloaded for the rating stuff at the end.


So is it possible to create page numbers for an eBook you publish yourself onto Amazon which doesn't have a print edition? I'm thinking along the lines of the similar principle of referencing the toc.ncx file in the .opf when building the book to create navigation points.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Tiersten said:


> That option in the menu is only for the manual update you do by copying the update onto the Kindle.


Not exactly true. I ususally leave my wifi off. Once I was having reboot problems and called Amazon CS. They told me to turn on wifi and see if the "update" was greyed out. It wasn't, so they said to click on it and it downloaded the update from the wifi amd installed it. It isn't only for installing something you've brought over from your computer.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Matt C said:


> So is it possible to create page numbers for an eBook you publish yourself onto Amazon which doesn't have a print edition? I'm thinking along the lines of the similar principle of referencing the toc.ncx file in the .opf when building the book to create navigation points.


You might ask this in the Writer's Cafe. . .I think there's a thread discussing the update as it affects self-publishers. . . .


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

stevene9 said:


> Not exactly true. I ususally leave my wifi off. Once I was having reboot problems and called Amazon CS. They told me to turn on wifi and see if the "update" was greyed out. It wasn't, so they said to click on it and it downloaded the update from the wifi amd installed it. It isn't only for installing something you've brought over from your computer.


The CS pushed updates aren't like the regular updates. Your Kindle gets a message to tell it check for a special update on their servers and to enable that option. They can make it auto update as well.

There are actually several different kinds of OTA update for the Kindle. Generally the one used for all K3s is the FC02 type.


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## hidden_user (Dec 20, 2010)

I did the update last night and there were no problems. Previously I had installed the Jail Break and Screensaver hack and upon the routine completion of the 3.1 update, my screensaver was still there. WOooHOoo !!!

I do have some concerns however ...

- I read on here that once the 3.1 update is installed, it's impossible to use the uninstall software for the jail break and screensaver hack. Therefore, my concern is that if something happens and I need to use the Kindle warranty for some reason, Amazon with say that I voided the warranty by installing the hack(s).

- I feel that with as many people who have installed the jail break and SS hack and found they are MUCH happier with the display now ... that should send a message to Amazon that perhaps they should incorporate a feature into the Kindle software that would allow end users to customize their screensaver without using third party or unauthorized software. Why not?

- If in some future update, Amazon DOES include a software feature to customize the SS, I'm concerned that since I now can not uninstall the jail break and SS hack ... there may be a software conflict.

- What I wish I had done was make an image to my hard-drive of the Kindle files as they were from the factory, before installing the hack(s). That way, I could have at least manually returned the kindle to factory software condition in consideration of the above listed concerns.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

hidden_user said:


> - I read on here that once the 3.1 update is installed, it's impossible to use the uninstall software for the jail break and screensaver hack. Therefore, my concern is that if something happens and I need to use the Kindle warranty for some reason, Amazon with say that I voided the warranty by installing the hack(s).


Yes. 3.1 prevents hacks from being installed or uninstalled as they're all just a packaged update file. No idea about the warranty.



hidden_user said:


> - What I wish I had done was make an image to my hard-drive of the Kindle files as they were from the factory, before installing the hack(s). That way, I could have at least manually returned the kindle to factory software condition in consideration of the above listed concerns.


You can't do that without using USB network and having knowledge of UNIX command line tools. The firmware is not accessible to users normally and you can't back it up via the USB drive that appears when you plug it in.

Even if you do make a backup, its not currently possible to restore that backup. Amazon haven't released a full firmware image for the K3. All the updates have been patches which alter the existing files. Creating a custom update may or may not work depending on how the files are validated. Even if it does work, its a big risk of killing Kindles without extensive testing.


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## hidden_user (Dec 20, 2010)

> Even if you do make a backup, its not currently possible to restore that backup. Amazon haven't released a full firmware image for the K3. All the updates have been patches which alter the existing files. Creating a custom update may or may not work depending on how the files are validated. Even if it does work, its a big risk of killing Kindles without extensive testing.


So am I to understand that the jail break and SS hacks alter/modify/change the firmware of the Kindle? ... which is not visible when using the USB and examining the resulting "Kindle drive" files.

I was under the impression that the hacks changed/added to/modified visible files. If the hacks modified the firmware, which is not visible ... then I understand that backups/copying of visible files and reinstalling/copying them back to the "Kindle drive" would NOT restore the Kindle to a factory software state.

I just didn't realize the hacks modified the firmware I guess. AND IF SO, leads to another concern ...

- Since the firmware has been modified by third party software, future updates from Amazon may not work or install successfully/correctly.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

hidden_user said:


> So am I to understand that the jail break and SS hacks alter/modify/change the firmware of the Kindle? ... which is not visible when using the USB and examining the resulting "Kindle drive" files.


Yes. The jailbreak, font and screensaver hacks all add files to the Kindle in the non accessible firmware area. Thats why they don't cause the update to fail. The official updates checks the validity of all the firmware files it knows about. Any additional files created by hacks aren't looked at. The 3 listed hacks above don't currently modify any system files but other hacks may do which is why they've always had to be uninstalled first.



hidden_user said:


> - Since the firmware has been modified by third party software, future updates from Amazon may not work.


Yes. Thats why its best to remove all hacks before doing an update because it may interfere or it may end up like the 3.1 where you can't uninstall it afterwards.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

At the moment, there are two options for getting 3.1 and also allowing hacks.

The first is that a custom 3.1 update is made that intentionally allows hacks still.  There are a few issues with this though.

1.  Amazon won't like us distributing their firmware but in a modified state.  Nearly all manufacturers will not appreciate people doing this so it isn't just Amazon.
2.  Only works for people with a Kindle that isn't already on 3.1 as we'd be using the old jailbreak.
3.  You'd be diverging slightly from the official firmware and this may cause some issues in the future but you could probably do a special update to fix any issues if they appear.
4.  It will be a support nightmare to do this as people have enough trouble with the official firmware updates breaking their Kindles.  You'd have to put strict warnings of potential for damage around this custom 3.1 and attempt to indemnify yourself against any outcomes.  The Kindle user applies this update at their own risk.

The other option is to insist everybody installs and gets working the USB networking addon for the Kindle and then types in commands precisely to their PC and their Kindle to restore the ability to install/uninstall hacks. 

1. Requires the Kindle not to be on 3.1 as again, it'd be currently using the existing jailbreak.
2. The support nightmare problem that if the user doesn't know precisely what they're doing then they can completely kill the Kindle and it would require servicing by Amazon.

The breaking the Kindle issue wouldn't be too much of a problem if we've got a recovery mechanism to wipe a Kindle and restore it back to factory condition with the official firmware.  We don't however so this is a bit of a problem and its deterring me and others from making either of these options at the moment...

The TLR summary is that it is possible to have 3.1 with hacks if they've not already upgraded to 3.1 but its not for the average end user yet and that people should wait for a jailbreak + not apply 3.1 if they do care about hacks.


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## hidden_user (Dec 20, 2010)

Well, I had 3.03 and then installed the JB and SS hacks. I did not uninstall the hacks obviously, before updating to Amazon 3.1. I guess only time will tell what the ultimate outcome will be, but I don't think I'm much alone in this dilemma. 

I love my static SS display. If push had come to shove and discussion here had shown that it was impossible to retain the SS hack with the 3.1 update ... I simply wouldn't have updated. There is no feature in the 3.1 update that surpasses the wonderful ability to display a user selected SS.


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## Kristan Hoffman (Aug 6, 2009)

hidden_user said:


> I love my static SS display. If push had come to shove and discussion here had shown that it was impossible to retain the SS hack with the 3.1 update ... I simply wouldn't have updated. There is no feature in the 3.1 update that surpasses the wonderful ability to display a user selected SS.


Wait, is it even possible not to update? I was getting the impression that updates got "pushed" to your Kindle... Am I misunderstanding?

Kristan


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Kristan Hoffman said:


> Wait, is it even possible not to update? I was getting the impression that updates got "pushed" to your Kindle... Am I misunderstanding?


If the firmware does go into general release status then it will be automatically delivered over wireless but all these early previews won't update automatically.

2 ways to prevent your Kindle from ever doing an update.

1. Never turn on wireless.
2. Modify the firmware to prevent it from doing an auto update.

Neither option is really great...


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## hidden_user (Dec 20, 2010)

> 2 ways to prevent your Kindle from ever doing an update.
> 
> 1. Never turn on wireless.
> 2. Modify the firmware to prevent it from doing an auto update.
> ...


Or just don't ever use the "Update Your Kindle" feature found under Menu>Settings>Menu.
I would think one would still have to "Update Your Kindle" even if the firmware update was "pushed".


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

hidden_user said:


> Or just don't ever use the "Update Your Kindle" feature found under Menu>Settings>Menu.
> I would think one would still have to "Update Your Kindle" even if the firmware update was "pushed".


No. It can and will do it automatically. My Kindle went from 3.0 to 3.0.1 sometime during the night. I initially only noticed because the screensaver was different from the night before. I try to avoid the creepy Emily Dickinson screensaver and thats what appeared when I looked in the morning


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## hidden_user (Dec 20, 2010)

Tiersten said:


> No. It can and will do it automatically. My Kindle went from 3.0 to 3.0.1 sometime during the night. I initially only noticed because the screensaver was different from the night before.


AHHhhhhh ... well shoot, I guess there will always be the possibility down the line that I "bricked" my kindle by installing the JB and SS and then installing 3.1 ... I just don't know it yet DOH !!!


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## Kristan Hoffman (Aug 6, 2009)

Tiersten said:


> 2 ways to prevent your Kindle from ever doing an update.
> 
> 1. Never turn on wireless.
> 2. Modify the firmware to prevent it from doing an auto update.
> ...


Okay, gotcha. I mean, I'm not one for "jailbreaking" my devices anyway (even though yes, I kind of hate the screensaver) so it's not really a concern, I was just making sure I understood.

What I REALLY hope is that the next official release takes into account some of what we've talked about -- i.e., making pages/locations/% an always-visible feature, with the user able to set which they see; and custom screensavers, or at least the ability not to display of some of the images we hate lol.

Kristan


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

hidden_user said:


> AHHhhhhh ... well shoot, I guess there will always be the possibility down the line that I "bricked" my kindle by installing the JB and SS and then installing 3.1 ... I just don't know it yet DOH !!!


The jailbreak is safe and the screensaver one looks to be pretty safe as well so I don't think you've got anything to worry about for those two.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

Kristan Hoffman said:


> What I REALLY hope is that the next official release takes into account some of what we've talked about -- i.e., making pages/locations/% an always-visible feature, with the user able to set which they see; and custom screensavers, or at least the ability not to display of some of the images we hate lol.


Yeah. I'd like those options as well. I've just learnt to live with Emily occasionally staring... 

Adding some extra settings to change what is visible, custom screensavers and maybe some more fonts would cover the vast majority of what people are after when they alter their Kindle. Amazon do appear to be listening as they've just added the page feature...


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

Seamonkey said:


> It isn't a case of being patient. I've tried two computers now (on the same network, though) and left one update running overnight even but it just times out.. never gets above 0%.
> 
> And I have never had a problem grabbing an update.. K1, K2, DX, K3, I've had some automatic updates but more that I've pushed, plus one on K3 that the Amazon CS pushed directly to my K3 because of a very early problem I got to test.
> 
> ...


Seamonkey, I had the same thing happen the night before last, and all day yesterday. Last night about a half hour after your post quoted above, I tried once more and BINGO! It downloaded in about five seconds. I don't think I did anything different. I can't explain it. Just keep trying...


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## heragn (Nov 3, 2009)

When is the new patch due to go live?  I can't wait to get it but don't want to go through the hassel of downloading to pc, connecting to pic and then updating.  Anyway to get it from "update your kindle" now?


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

heragn said:


> When is the new patch due to go live? I can't wait to get it but don't want to go through the hassel of downloading to pc, connecting to pic and then updating. Anyway to get it from "update your kindle" now?


No idea. Last version that went to release status with auto update was 3.0.1. 3.0.2 and 3.0.3 stayed forever in early preview.

At the moment there, the only way to get 3.1 is to download and copy the file over. You could try asking Kindle CS if they can push the firmware update out to you over wireless?


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## smwoodcrafts (Jan 19, 2011)

hidden_user said:


> Well, I had 3.03 and then installed the JB and SS hacks.


Do you still have the 3.0.3 bin file for wireless only?

smwoodcrafts


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## MartyS (Feb 3, 2011)

Tiersten said:


> No. It can and will do it automatically. My Kindle went from 3.0 to 3.0.1 sometime during the night. I initially only noticed because the screensaver was different from the night before. I try to avoid the creepy Emily Dickinson screensaver and thats what appeared when I looked in the morning


Yea, when I got mine it automatically updated from 3.0.0 to 3.0.1 when I registered it (got it at Target), it never asked if I wanted to update, it just said it was doing it.

Just wondering, has anyone ever tried going back to older firmware using the old bin files? Just in case the jailbreak and screensaver hacks need to be uninstalled before they get updated?

I almost tried it with the 3.0.2 bin file when mine had trouble coming out of sleep mode after updating to 3.0.3, but then I did a few resets and it started working normally again.


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## Tiersten (Sep 6, 2010)

MartyS said:


> Just wondering, has anyone ever tried going back to older firmware using the old bin files? Just in case the jailbreak and screensaver hacks need to be uninstalled before they get updated?


You can't do that with the K3 firmware images. They're all one way only as internally they're patches on existing files which can't be reversed.


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## Jodi O (Mar 3, 2010)

I have over 900 books on my Kindle. Having that many does not slow down reading, but it does slow down menu navigation, and paging through collections. Is there anyone out there who also has a large library and has updated to 3.1? Has there been any performance enhancements? Thanks.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I got about 600 books on it now and my kindle is much faster with 3.1 than it was with 3.02. I never got around going to 3.03 so I don't know if that one would have fixed that already. I had one of the older versions of 3.02, not the newer one recent kindles have been shipped with that was suppose to be just like 3.03. 

Don't know if that helps.


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## r0b0d0c (Feb 16, 2009)

heragn said:


> When is the new patch due to go live? I can't wait to get it but don't want to go through the hassel of downloading to pc, connecting to pic and then updating. Anyway to get it from "update your kindle" now?


I've had all 3 generations of Kindle, and have NEVER had a firmware update happen automatically - and I keep wireless "on" all the time! (for updates on periodicals and blogs) I typically wait about a week, then do the computer download and transfer to Kindle (it's always been VERY fast and without any glitches.) This time, I decided to download it on day 1, and the update was again trouble free.

I don't know if Amazon EVER does an automatic update on "Early Preview Release" firmwares, do they? (which 3.0.3 and 3.1 both listed as being)


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