# Kindle 5



## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

So now that we've seen Amazon's latest offerings, I'm looking ahead to the 5th generation. To be honest, I wasn't thrilled with the newest Kindles. I despise the placement of the page turn buttons on the non-touch version, and I can't stand that they left off page turn buttons on the touch version. I have an iPad and I dislike swiping for page turns and I accidentally turn pages all the time when I read on it. I'd much rather have buttons on the side like the K3 for turning. Also, I feel like the aesthetic design of the new Kindles looks... cheap. The Nook Simple Touch is much prettier to look at, to be honest. And then perhaps the most egregious sin, in my book, is limiting the free 3G to only wikipedia and the Amazon store. I enjoy having 3G on my Kindle to check email, blogs, and to have in case of emergencies (as I can't afford internet on my phone). With all these things in mind, here's what I would like to see in the K5:

- Touchscreen
- Page turn buttons on the sides of the device
- 3G internet without limits, or at least granting access to email- an email Kindle active content perhaps? Sort of like an app?
- Better industrial design- black and/or white instead of the plasticky cheap-looking silver. Maybe rubberizing it a little bit?


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2011)

The 5th Generation is already out. It's called the Kindle Touch and the "Baby Kindle'.  The Kindle Keyboard is considered 4th Gen.

And seriously, we haven't even gotten the Kindle Touch in our hot little hands yet. Is there really any need to start criticizing it already and making demands for the next gen? 

As for you wanting free unlimited/restricted 3G, are you willing to pay more for it? If you want to do email and surf the web, get a tablet and a data plan. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Amazon to foot the bill. I'm sure it's not cheap for them as it is.  Besides, almost everyone has WiFi access now. And why would they put page turn buttons on the Touch version? That makes no sense. It's got a touchscreen for a reason,


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

NYCKindleFan said:


> The 5th Generation is already out. It's called the Kindle Touch and the "Baby Kindle'. The Kindle Keyboard is considered 4th Gen.
> 
> And seriously, we haven't even gotten the Kindle Touch in our hot little hands yet. Is there really any need to start criticizing it already and making demands for the next gen?
> 
> As for you wanting free unlimited/restricted 3G, are you willing to pay more for it? If you want to do email and surf the web, get a tablet and a data plan. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Amazon to foot the bill. I'm sure it's not cheap for them as it is. Besides, almost everyone has WiFi access now. And why would they put page turn buttons on the Touch version? That makes no sense. It's got a touchscreen for a reason,


Keyboard kindle is the third generation.

I will reserve judgement on the turn buttons until I have time to use my new kindle touch. The nook touch has them but it takes so much force to use them that they are a moot issue for me. It is painful for me. But I originally thought using my thumb to stretch to the screen to tap or swipe would be painful and it isn't.

What I would like to see is a 9.7 in touch screen at a much lower price point. I have given three DXs as gifts, but to be honest I have a hard time justifying the price when I look for myself.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

NYCKindleFan said:


> The 5th Generation is already out. It's called the Kindle Touch and the "Baby Kindle'. The Kindle Keyboard is considered 4th Gen.
> 
> And seriously, we haven't even gotten the Kindle Touch in our hot little hands yet. Is there really any need to start criticizing it already and making demands for the next gen?
> 
> As for you wanting free unlimited/restricted 3G, are you willing to pay more for it? If you want to do email and surf the web, get a tablet and a data plan. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Amazon to foot the bill. I'm sure it's not cheap for them as it is. Besides, almost everyone has WiFi access now. And why would they put page turn buttons on the Touch version? That makes no sense. It's got a touchscreen for a reason,


I already have a tablet, and as I mentioned before, I can't afford 3G internet on my phone, much less on a tablet. I just liked having the 3G internet access as a back-up, and reading blogs on the Kindle in article mode is actually very pleasant.

Also, as I mentioned in my original post, I have an iPad that I occasionally read on. After reading on a Kindle with page turn buttons, I find the swiping/tapping on my iPad to be obnoxious and conducive to accidental page turns. I was very disappointed to see that the new Kindle dropped the buttons, and in a few reviews I have read, the reviewers also found the lack of page turn buttons to be a downgrade to the reading experience. The Nook kept the page turn buttons and made a slightly larger side bezel, which makes the device much easier to hold and read (especially one-handed). I wish Amazon would do something similar to the Kindle. If I didn't read using a cover, I'm not sure how I would hold onto the device (that goes for my K3) as Amazon keeps making the side bezels skinnier and skinnier.

And one of my friends got the K4, and really, the new placement of the page turn buttons is incredibly obnoxious.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

On the $79 kindle, the button positioning felt strange but no where near how the K3 felt after the K2.  I really had difficulty with it because I went from pressing down into the bezel to pressing a button that goes down past the bezel edge (best I could describe it).  It felt like it was going to tip with every page turn.  Eventually I became accustomed and it felt natural.

Me personally, I found the $79 kindles highlighting and note taking beyond annoying.  It took extra presses of the center button to start and stop actions.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Perhaps I'm unusual, but I've had 4 different eInk kindles and I haven't had any trouble adapting to each of them. 

The K1 had a large side page turn button which a lot of people complained they pushed accidentally.  After a day or two, I'd unconsciously worked out how to pick it up and it almost never happened.  

I also had a DX. Controls slightly different, in different places, sleep mode activated differently.  Again, I had no trouble adapting.  And, in fact, switching between the two devices.

I next got a K3. . again, slightly different than the DX. . .flat selector instead of a joystick was the main difference, and the slider switch was on the bottom.  Nope, no problem adapting.  

And now I have a K4 as well.  Definitely different than the K3(Keyboard).  Push button rather than slider, different page turn buttons.  And still no problem adapting and, again, switching between the two.

The Fire, which I should get today, will be number 5 and I don't anticipate any problems with it either. . .I've already read through the Users' Guide twice. 

Honestly, at this point, I can't think what a gen 5 eInk kindle could have that I'd want.  I briefly thought about the Touch, but, really, I'm extremely happy with my basic Kindle.  And my Keyboard Kindle.  And don't see where Touch has any added value for me.  I'll be interested to see the "x-ray" thing at work at some point. . .but I'm not a "look it up while reading" sort, so it isn't a feature that's worth extra money to me either.  

But, see, that's the great thing:  there are a lot of different price points with varying feature sets. . . .really, there should be something for just about anybody!


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

Well if we're going to talk K5:

Color e-ink display
large screen version for magazines, cookbooks, and graphic novels
tags for books instead of just collections
ability to have the covers of books you purchased be your screensavers
ability to highlight and send email when error found from within the book (instead of having to go to Amazon website and send a message explaining the issue)
arrives in box made from Godiva chocolate


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

Better contrast eink screen is about the only thing that would get me to consider upgrading from my K3. 

I don't use it nearly as much now that I have an iPad 2 and iphone 4s, mostly just in bed. So not much incentive to upgrade. A better screen would probably entice me though as I still find the K3 screen a bit too gray for my liking.


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## Hadou (Jun 1, 2011)

I'd like color eInk display and possibly better PDF support.  And maybe an included app that would let me know just which Mega-Bucks slot machine would hit the jackpot on the next pull.


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## KayakerNC (Oct 7, 2009)

mooshie78 said:


> Better contrast eink screen is about the only thing that would get me to consider upgrading from my K3.


The better contrast screen made me upgrade from my K1 to a K3 keyboard, which was taken over by my wife. She, in turn, upgraded to the K4NT because of the price, size and screen of the K4NT, and the K1 has gone on to a friend's teen-age son, an avid sci-fi reader.
Everybody is happy with their Kindles, but never say never. Amazon has some very persuasive powers.


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## dbeman (Feb 23, 2011)

Who knows what difference a year could make, but at this point I honestly don't see a new Kindle hardware option being necessary considering the choices that are already available. The only significant upgrade I could think of at this point would be a color e-ink screen; but I'm afraid the ship may have sailed on that concept since the LCD tablets are more versatile, cheaper to produce, and appeal to a wider market.


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## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

dbeman said:


> Who knows what difference a year could make, but at this point I honestly don't see a new Kindle hardware option being necessary considering the choices that are already available. The only significant upgrade I could think of at this point would be a color e-ink screen; but I'm afraid the ship may have sailed on that concept since the LCD tablets are more versatile, cheaper to produce, and appeal to a wider market.


Agreed. Aside from the e-ink diehards on sites like this, I just don't think there's a big market for color e-ink readers. Most people who want a color tablet want it to be able to do video, games etc. that e-ink tech will probably never be able to do.

I think e-ink in general will eventually die off once there's screen tech out there that can switch between LCD and an e-ink like mode. Once that's out and prices drop on it so they can include it in a $200 or so Kindle Fire like tablet I'm not sure there will be much need for e-ink dedicated readers. People who just want to read will by one of those tablets and just leave the screen in the e-ink like mode.


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## caracara (May 23, 2010)

Well I want my phone and Kindle in one.

Back-light touchscreen phone about the size of iPhone, flip it open to have e-ink display that would then be twice as big as the touchscreen part.  Page turn buttons on the e-ink. Option to completely turn off the touchscreen to conserve battery when needed. Packaged with a chocolate shake.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

There's definitely room for improvement with contrast. Hopefully the next e-ink screen to be released will be completely black and white, rather than black and light-grey. And there's always room for improvement regarding software, though as mentioned, my key hardware issue is the omission of side page turn buttons on the Kindle Touch. True, I haven't used the KT yet, but given my experience reading on my iPad, I greatly prefer having side buttons to swiping/tapping.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

One thing that I have noticed is a lot more people upgrade every other generation than every generation.  So, I think that those of us getting Touches will be less likely to buy the K5 then people who are keeping their K3's.  I am upgrading from a K2, and I am apparently in plentiful company.  

So, my guess is that there won't be a lot in the K5 to grab my attention; but there probably will be in the K6.
Elaine 
Norman, OK


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

Real folders that nest - not just collections.


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## Mark_51885 (Sep 30, 2011)

I would have to believe within the next of couple years someone is going to deliver an edge-to-edge screen.    I came to Kindle with the K4, so this is all new to me.  (Yes, I have been reading paper books up until 2 weeks ago and didn't realize what I was missing).    I was actually surprised by how big of a border is on the K4, Touch and my coworkers nook.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

Mark_51885 said:


> I would have to believe within the next of couple years someone is going to deliver an edge-to-edge screen. I came to Kindle with the K4, so this is all new to me. (Yes, I have been reading paper books up until 2 weeks ago and didn't realize what I was missing). I was actually surprised by how big of a border is on the K4, Touch and my coworkers nook.


These devices need bezels, though, especially with the move to touch screens. You have to have something to hold onto.


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## musclehead (Dec 29, 2010)

The K5 needs 3G, Bluetooth, front and rear facing cameras, microphone, and a mondo processor. Think iPad, but fun-sized. (Yes, I'll pay for the data plan.)


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

musclehead said:


> The K5 needs 3G, Bluetooth, front and rear facing cameras, microphone, and a mondo processor. Think iPad, but fun-sized. (Yes, I'll pay for the data plan.)


Why? I have no desire to take pictures with my Kindle. I want to read books. I have a camera on my iPhone and it's subpar, so now I'm shopping for a small camera that can actually handle action shots of a toddler. The more stuff you add the more it jacks up the price and the more compromise you end up making. My iPod has a lot more space for music then my iPhone, but I could deal with the fact that I can't actually carry all of my music or videos (compromise). It's okay for quick snaps for Facebook posts, but not for pictures in the photo album.

I want the K5 to be optimized for reading and the prices to continue to drop so that almost anyone can afford one, from the poor inner city kid who get it through a library or school to the rich housewife slipping it into her designer handbag.


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## NightGoat (Feb 2, 2011)

musclehead said:


> The K5 needs 3G, Bluetooth, front and rear facing cameras, microphone, and a mondo processor. Think iPad, but fun-sized. (Yes, I'll pay for the data plan.)


Yep, and with Seymour Duncan pickups and a decent flanger.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I love the page turn buttons on the side of my $79 kindle.  When I first saw it online, I couldn't see the side buttons and thought that the lower center ones were for page turns.  I was wrong.


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## PhillyGuy (Dec 18, 2010)

NYCKindleFan said:


> If you want to do email and surf the web, get a tablet and a data plan. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Amazon to foot the bill.


A data plan? How many of these are seamless across most international boundaries, the way the 3G K3 -- at least when bought in the US -- is? A data plan might be worse, for someone like myself who is more oriented towards text than graphics, besides costing more money.

Amazon has been offering access to international cellphone network based internet, that works fairly well for text-only web sites and for the mobile gmail interface, without a data plan, at least since 2010. And they have made a boatload of money at the same time, growing to become the world's 41st biggest company by market capitalization. Bigger than Citibank. Bigger than McDonald's. Yes, they have made lesser profits than those two others, but apparently the billion dollars plus a year Amazon does make is enough for them to continue to innovate.

What I would like to see in a K5 is higher contrast, lower prices, and nothing taken away. If they do that, it's reasonable to expect they can remain in business for decades to come.

Bezos often points out in interviews that Amazon has a low margin strategy. This Jeff Bezos statement is a bit self-serving but has some truth to it:


> There are two ways to build a successful company. One is to work very, very hard to convince customers to pay high margins. The other is to work very, very hard to be able to afford to offer customers low margins. They both work. We're firmly in the second camp. It's difficult-you have to eliminate defects and be very efficient. But it's also a point of view. We'd rather have a very large customer base and low margins than a smaller customer base and higher margins. . . .
> 
> I'm a big fan of all-you-can-eat plans, because they're simpler for customers.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

NYCKindleFan said:


> The 5th Generation is already out. It's called the Kindle Touch and the "Baby Kindle'. The Kindle Keyboard is considered 4th Gen.


Also, I didn't mention this before, but I thought I should clarify:

The Kindle Keyboard is just the Kindle 3 renamed. The KK is 3rd gen, and the new K4 and Kindle Touch are 4th gen.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd also suggest being careful with using "KK" as shorthand for the K3 now Keyboard. . . .when the K2 came out it was common to see KK meaning "Kindle Klassic" for the 1st gen Kindle.


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## hauptmann (Nov 18, 2011)

ScaryMerry (awesome username BTW),

I agree with you on all points.  And I find it pretty annoying that you cannot express your views without someone jumping right in to tell you that you are WRONG and stupid.  ie "Why would you want that so and so feature?".

The removal of the 3G browsing and the physical page turn buttons were why I did not order a Kindle.  Both were cost cutting measures so that Amazon could increase it's profits.  Despite the "explanations" that they were for a "better user experience".  I am sure Amazon didn't receive mass complaints that one could do "too much" over 3G or that having buttons as an option as the STR does was a deal breaker.

I voted with my wallet and my vote was "no".  Though I am sure an Amazon fan will be along shortly to tell me that Amazon doesn't need my money and is making millions to somehow validate their opinion.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

hauptmann said:


> ScaryMerry (awesome username BTW),
> 
> I agree with you on all points. And I find it pretty annoying that you cannot express your views without someone jumping right in to tell you that you are WRONG and stupid. ie "Why would you want that so and so feature?".
> 
> ...


Thanks!

And I wouldn't have an issue with the lack of 3G browsing if it hadn't been included in the first place. It annoys me when companies "upgrade" a product and then take away functionality. And as PhillyGuy mentioned, it's fantastic to have when traveling. My grandpa in Tennessee has no wifi, and usually I'm cut off from all communication with the outside world when I visit him for a week three or four times a year. With my Kindle, I can at least check my email, facebook, and news blogs. Even better was when I studied abroad in London and did not have reliable access to wifi. It was an excellent lifeline.


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## hauptmann (Nov 18, 2011)

I understand and agree.  My issue was that they removed a feature that many people loved and lied about why.  In customer service responses they kept saying things like "we constantly work to improve the user experience and believe this choice was for the best".  Even with the touch interface it is not going to replace a real browser but as you said is an excellent "lifeline" at times for email or maps etc.  And the price remained the same so the money they saved on 3G bandwidth all goes right into their pockets.  If they had just been honest about it and I would have less ire toward them.  

Also the way they initially didn't mention this change, then obfuscated it with "wording", then finally came out and admitted it.  For me I can't reward slimy behavior like that with my money.  And by removing the 3G browsing they removed any incentive I had to buy a Kindle over the competition since they no longer offered anything "better".


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

bordercollielady said:


> Real folders that nest - not just collections.


x10


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

hauptmann said:


> I understand and agree. My issue was that they removed a feature that many people loved and lied about why. In customer service responses they kept saying things like "we constantly work to improve the user experience and believe this choice was for the best". Even with the touch interface it is not going to replace a real browser but as you said is an excellent "lifeline" at times for email or maps etc. And the price remained the same so the money they saved on 3G bandwidth all goes right into their pockets. If they had just been honest about it and I would have less ire toward them.
> 
> Also the way they initially didn't mention this change, then obfuscated it with "wording", then finally came out and admitted it. For me I can't reward slimy behavior like that with my money. And by removing the 3G browsing they removed any incentive I had to buy a Kindle over the competition since they no longer offered anything "better".


Oh, I'm still keeping my K3 over the temptation of the Nook Simple Touch because of that dirty partitioning that B&N does. They advertise the device as having 2GB of memory, but in truth only 1GB is available to users and only 250MB of that is available for non-B&N content. As most of my content is from non-DRMed sources and entirely sideloaded, that's a dealbreaker for me. At least Amazon is honest about the space available to users and doesn't dictate how you use that space.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

I agree with Ann that most designs can be adapted to...my beef is with the primitive software capabilities *directly related to e-books and reading.*

That is where I would like them to focus, where I would like to see progress. I want an e-reader, that's all I want from my K3. I like it, alot. But the organizational capabilities are a simplistic travesty and they just came out with 3 new models with NO improvement.

I have all sorts of devices and may someday get a tablet....all I want is a FULL FEATURED e-reader. I'd like to see the reader-focused features improved, in a big way. More visibility into book content, more consistency enforced on publishers, much more flexibility in organizing content, easier navigation for bookmarking, notation, etc etc etc functions.

I only use the keyboard for creating collections and rare other functions....so touch or other mechanisms for that are fine for me...or keeping the physical keyboard...I dont care. I only use it for housekeeping, not entertainment or browsing, etc.


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## Snorkledorf (Oct 18, 2009)

1,000 random thoughts:

Color e-ink (well, maybe one of these years). LCD screens pull too much power to maintain the Kindle's killer feature: weeks between charges. And they're only easy to read if you spend all your reading time away from sunlight. 

Kindle 2's physical page turn buttons that hinge inward. 

Kindle 3's graphite & rubberized feel. I never needed a skin for it!

Higher-grade / higher-contrast e-ink screen, even if it costs more

Password protection option for each Kindle Store purchase (including the "Buy me Now Now Now!!" link from samples) so I can hand it to my friends without them making accidental purchases

Samples that I buy get automatically replaced with the new file, automatically inherit any categorization, and any markup gets transferred over too. 

Things that Duokan already has:
Manually settable screen full-refresh (flash every X page turns)
PDF cropping
Good PDF contrast

PDF navigation that actually works. 

Custom fonts / more font selections. 

Custom screensavers. Book covers as an option, but with an per-book/per-tag opt-out for e.g. "Vulcan Love Slave."

Cover browsing. 

Password-protect folders so Kindle-wielding dissidents can avoid persecution (and no one had to know that I'm reading "Vulcan Love Slave").

Full-screen reading, with no permanent progress bar. Duokan's single pixel progress indicator is an acceptable compromise. (If I want to know how far into a book I am, I can always hit the Menu button.)

ePub support, at least for manually-loaded content. Including ePub 3 please. 

Touch screen keyboard. 

Touch-screen input for hand-drawn markup. Circles, lines, arrows, random squiggles. All viewable as an overlay as I read the page, not only hidden under an anonymous little number like at present. Text reflow makes this difficult, but not impossible. (They might anchor each block of squiggles to a text location and let them reflow together...)

Touch screen disable-able for "Ziplock bag in the bathtub" mode. 

Text notes displayed as inline text blocks, that the book text dynamically flows around (or hidden like they do it now, if you prefer).

Alignment options enabled (Left/full/right?)

Some sort of ability to quickly flip through many sections of a book (think multiple post-its/fingers-in-the-pages). Not so useful for fiction, but often indispensable otherwise.


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## Nulke (Mar 5, 2011)

PDF text reflow would be a nice addition to the next Kindle, particularly as Sony Readers (PRS series) have had that capability for a long time. Also was disappointed with the fact that you can no longer read books in landscape mode on the Kindle Touch.


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## NightGoat (Feb 2, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I'd also suggest being careful with using "KK" as shorthand for the K3 now Keyboard. . . .when the K2 came out it was common to see KK meaning "Kindle Klassic" for the 1st gen Kindle.


Is the K3/KK the only version of Kindle (not including the DX) that has a graphite model? If so, maybe we can call it KG, KKG, K3G.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

I want the K5 to be a tool on a Swiss Army knife. After I peel an orange with the blade, tighten some screws with the screwdriver, and open a bottle of wine with the corkscrew, I could fold out my Kindle and read.


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## Snorkledorf (Oct 18, 2009)

Ooh, speaking of color e-ink, did you see E Ink's Triton technology yet? I'm guessing that in it's current form it's still too expensive for Amazon's bargain-basement pricing model (and the colors are still a bit muted TBH), but at least there's hope on the horizon!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks there's been a bit of . . . .passionate? . . . . language used. . . . . .I would caution against getting too worked up.  And not to assume malice -- on the part of Amazon or any member -- when it's probably more a case of ignorance or apathy, or just having to make a decision and randomly doing X.

It is true that features have changed as the kindle has evolved -- some added and some removed.  From all I've read amazon is very long term oriented -- unlike many big companies.  My opinion, from reading about their corporate culture, ideals, and goals, is that they act for what they think will be best for most of their consumers which will, in turn, help their bottom line.  But, you know, sometimes they get it wrong.  My suggestion, if you're unhappy with something they've changed, is to send a courteous email with your reasoned response and feedback.  They don't know how customers feel unless we tell them, and they'll listen better if we're polite.   

FWIW, re: the change in 3G web access. . . .I remember thinking way back when I got my first K1 -- wow, that's pretty amazing that Amazon is paying for that with basically no restrictions.  Now, I personally found the experience to be way to slow for efficiency, so never used the browser.  Of course I did use 3G for it's main reason for being -- downloading books wirelessly.  But I know a great many folks like and use the browser for email.  

From the first, the terms of service said that the cost (at that time 'free') was subject to change. Now, they've not changed the cost directly, but have limited the use of 3G.  Honestly, based on dimly remembered cost analysis and actuarial courses in college, I can't blame them for that.  It seems to me that they're trying to bring the price down as far as they can on all models so that more people can afford them. . . . .so that they can sell more books and magazine subscriptions.  The monthly charges to ATT, even with a good discount in place for volume, had to have been fairly high in the grand scheme of things.  

But it is possible that I'm not as bothered by the action because I never really used the web browsing capabilities. 

As to what I'd want to see in a 5th gen Kindle. . . . . . .honestly, I just want to read books, blogs, and the daily newspaper. . . .I think my basic K4 is just about perfect.  Of course, I felt the same way about my K1 and my K3. . .so it's possible that I'd find a K5 perfect too -- whatever features it had.


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## hauptmann (Nov 18, 2011)

They removed the 3g browsing to cut costs yet the cost of the device remains the same.  That isn't good for the consumer but rather good for Amazon.  I along with many others did send emails when this came to light.  I even went to the ECR level and got nothing but party line excuses. Removing 3g browsing saved money but that savings was not passed on to the consumer.  I would have preferred it stay as it was but if they are going to cut a feature that costs them, NOT pass that savings on, and then claim it is to make things "better" for the consumer I will call them outright liars.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

The didn't remove the 3G browsing capability on the Keyboard model. They simply didn't add it to the touch model. Instead, they added Touch and the x-ray feature.

Best as I can tell they sell the things darn near at cost, hoping to make money on content purchased. Again, I can only say that I understand their desire to reduce their 3G bill to ATT given the extremely slim profit margin on the actual device.

I would also guess. . .though I have no empirical data. . . .that _most_ people barely used the 3g for web browsing. Which, I realize, on the one hand argues for why bother to remove the ability. Obviously I'm not privy to Amazon's internal discussions. I can say, however, that of the 8 or 10 people I know who have kindles -- none of whom are on KindleBoards -- none of them ever use the browser and a couple didn't even know the option was there. So, though not having it on the Touch is clearly a big negative for you, I think it's quite possible that for a large majority of their customers it's completely a non-issue.


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## hauptmann (Nov 18, 2011)

Do you get some sort of renumeration from Amazon Ann?  You are a vehement supporter and seem to go out of your way to justify things in their favor.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

I understood why they removed it, but in my eyes they've lost their edge over the competition. Though on the other hand, B&N's memory partitioning for non-B&N content has kept me from being a Nook customer. Ugh, I just wish they had kept side page turn buttons on the Kindle Touch and then I might have gotten a new Kindle. Hopefully they'll add them to the next iteration of the device, otherwise I may be switching over to the Nook, content restrictions or not. I'd just have to suck it up and get a microSD card.


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## Snorkledorf (Oct 18, 2009)

Well giving them the benefit of the doubt, reducing their costs by removing unrestricted 3G browsing could just as well have allowed them to apply the money saved to e.g. the touch system or some other part, while keeping the price about the same. Amazon has a track record of running as a low-margin company, doesn't seem likely they'd suddenly change tactics and go for gouging instead.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

hauptmann said:


> Do you get some sort of renumeration from Amazon Ann? You are a vehement supporter and seem to go out of your way to justify things in their favor.


I wouldn't characterize it as 'vehement'. I'm simply stating my opinion based on the reading I've done.

I've not always agreed with every move Amazon has made -- in fact, you'll note, I've stated neither agreement nor disagreement with their decision regarding 3G on the touch -- I've only expresssed what I understand to be their reasons. If they find that they have read their customers wrong and a majority really do want it back, I won't be a bit surprised to find it comes back; they'll try to find a way to make it happen. They are not afraid to say when they've been wrong.

For example: in the early days there was a book that someone had put up for sale on Amazon -- a well known title. It was discovered that the person selling it was not the rights holder and it was not in the public domain. Amazon pulled the book, but ALSO removed it from the devices of those who had purchased it in good faith. Great brouhaha ensued and Amazon apologized within a few days acknowledging that the move had been "stupid" (Jeff Bezos word, not mine). In the end, anyone who'd had the book removed was refunded the price of the book PLUS given a $10 credit as an apology. So, in the end, while they made a dumb move, they acknowledged it and fixed it. And it hasn't happened again.

I will admit that I have been an Amazon customer for 15+ years -- because I've been routinely pleased with their product selection, pricing and service. Not everything has always been perfect, but even when a product isn't what I expected or doesn't arrive on time or something, I've always, in the end, been satisfied with their problem resolution and customer service. I have never felt like I've been ripped off. If I had, I'd not still be a customer, most likely. While it's true that past behavior is not a 100% accurate predictor of future behavior, it's a pretty good indicator. I've heard Jeff Bezos' talk about his vision and his perspective and haven't seen anything in how the actual business is run, that indicates he's just angling for positive press and a good quote.

As always, of course, this has been MY experience and MY response to that experience. YMMV as they say. And that's o.k. too.


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## SamIam (Mar 3, 2011)

R. M. Reed said:


> I want the K5 to be a tool on a Swiss Army knife. After I peel an orange with the blade, tighten some screws with the screwdriver, and open a bottle of wine with the corkscrew, I could fold out my Kindle and read.


Wouldnt that be nice


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## Meka (Sep 8, 2011)

As long as Amazon provides me with free 3G to shop the Kindle store via my Kindle I am a happy camper  , If I want to check email or surf the net I have my Blackberry and laptop for that. The main thing I would like in a K5 is nestable collections and the ability to set the order of my collections on the home screen anything else would be iceing on the cake.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

I'm in the group that values the Kindle as a reading device and prefers to keep it that way. Thus, I'm not (yet) buying the Kindle Fire which offers more functions at the cost of the eink screen and low cost. 

Some of the suggestions that pertain to reading, I like very much, such as nested collections.

But I'm a "dedicated device" kind of guy. I'd rather have several pair of scissors in different sizes, and lots of specialized knives (my tomato slicing knife is a particular favorite), and a couple of different corkscrews, and lots of screwdrivers, etc. over a Swiss Army Knife...though I have one of those, too, that I keep in the glove box for emergencies.

That said, I also love my smartphone because it does a lot of things adequately. 

But for reading, give me my Kindle!


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## parakeetgirl (Feb 27, 2009)

I bought the Baby Kindle and the Fire and am very happy. I've had all generations of the Kindle and IMO, they keep getting better. The removal of the 3G web browsing just isn't a big deal to me. I'll go out on a limb and state that to the majority of people , it isn't a big deal either. It never was an optimal experience anyway. 

I also like how Amazon continues to support the Kindle Keyboard. There are plenty of choices available for ereaders, go with what makes you happy.


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## alaskazimm (Dec 25, 2010)

ScaryMerry said:


> I understood why they removed it, but in my eyes they've lost their edge over the competition. Though on the other hand, B&N's memory partitioning for non-B&N content has kept me from being a Nook customer. Ugh, I just wish they had kept side page turn buttons on the Kindle Touch and then I might have gotten a new Kindle. Hopefully they'll add them to the next iteration of the device, otherwise I may be switching over to the Nook, content restrictions or not. I'd just have to suck it up and get a microSD card.


I got the Nook Touch over the Kindle Touch because of the lack of page turn buttons on the Kindle. With a microSD card in the Nook, the content is integrated seamlessly in the library. So far I'm really liking the Nook Touch and to me it's an improvement over my K3 Keyboard.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

alaskazimm said:


> I got the Nook Touch over the Kindle Touch because of the lack of page turn buttons on the Kindle. With a microSD card in the Nook, the content is integrated seamlessly in the library. So far I'm really liking the Nook Touch and to me it's an improvement over my K3 Keyboard.


I just can't bring myself to give a company my money that knowingly lies to consumers (they did the same thing with the Nook Tablet, allowing only 1GB of the 16GB storage for non-B&N content) and tries to dictate how I use the space on the device that I paid for. Amazon does that too, to a certain extent, but not nearly as heinously as B&N has and continues to do.


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## alaskazimm (Dec 25, 2010)

ScaryMerry said:


> I just can't bring myself to give a company my money that knowingly lies to consumers (they did the same thing with the Nook Tablet, allowing only 1GB of the 16GB storage for non-B&N content) and tries to dictate how I use the space on the device that I paid for. Amazon does that too, to a certain extent, but not nearly as heinously as B&N has and continues to do.


I guess I don't see the lie. B&N says the Nook has x amount of memory and it does. No matter what device you buy, all the memory listed won't be available for your use (because of the os) and I have yet to see any maker state that in the advert. This is one of those things that leads to useless class action law suits that only enrich lawyers like the "how many bytes in a gigabyte?" nonsense from a few years ago.

I bought the Nook before I heard about the memory allocation and for me it's not a big deal. I can put a 32 gig SD card in and have more books than I can read in a lifetime.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

alaskazimm said:


> I guess I don't see the lie. B&N says the Nook has x amount of memory and it does. No matter what device you buy, all the memory listed won't be available for your use (because of the os) and I have yet to see any maker state that in the advert. This is one of those things that leads to useless class action law suits that only enrich lawyers like the "how many bytes in a gigabyte?" nonsense from a few years ago.
> 
> I bought the Nook before I heard about the memory allocation and for me it's not a big deal. I can put a 32 gig SD card in and have more books than I can read in a lifetime.


The SD slot is one thing that makes this much more appealing to me than the Fire. How is the Wi-Fi Web browsing? Pretty fast? Can you load iTunes music onto it?


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

alaskazimm said:


> I guess I don't see the lie. B&N says the Nook has x amount of memory and it does. No matter what device you buy, all the memory listed won't be available for your use (because of the os) and I have yet to see any maker state that in the advert. This is one of those things that leads to useless class action law suits that only enrich lawyers like the "how many bytes in a gigabyte?" nonsense from a few years ago.
> 
> I bought the Nook before I heard about the memory allocation and for me it's not a big deal. I can put a 32 gig SD card in and have more books than I can read in a lifetime.


The difference is that Amazon up front tells you that you can use 3 of the 4GB and if you go to third party sellers, they say the same. The Nook is advertised as having 2GB, but you only learn that you can use 1GB of that in a tiny footnote on the B&N page and then that you can use only 250MB of that for non-B&N content in another tiny footnote. Third-party Nook sellers just say that the device has 2GB of memory and leaves it at that. Seriously, check the Best Buy pages for the devices.


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## SailorMerry (Dec 18, 2010)

Lursa (was 9MMare) said:


> The SD slot is one thing that makes this much more appealing to me than the Fire. How is the Wi-Fi Web browsing? Pretty fast? Can you load iTunes music onto it?


I don't know- we're talking about the e-ink devices.

And no, you can't put your iTunes music on the Nook Tablet because it only lets you use 1GB of its advertised 16GB for non-B&N content. Sure, you could always put it on a microSD card, but that's ridiculous, given that the device has 16GB of storage natively. Not even Apple is that bad- the vast majority of the media I have on my iPod did not come from Apple.


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## alaskazimm (Dec 25, 2010)

ScaryMerry said:


> The difference is that Amazon up front tells you that you can use 3 of the 4GB and if you go to third party sellers, they say the same. The Nook is advertised as having 2GB, but you only learn that you can use 1GB of that in a tiny footnote on the B&N page and then that you can use only 250MB of that for non-B&N content in another tiny footnote. Third-party Nook sellers just say that the device has 2GB of memory and leaves it at that. Seriously, check the Best Buy pages for the devices.


OK. I see what you're saying now. I never really looked at the specs like that. Usually just read the reviews and I don't remember any saying that.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

ScaryMerry said:


> I don't know- we're talking about the e-ink devices.
> 
> And no, you can't put your iTunes music on the Nook Tablet because it only lets you use 1GB of its advertised 16GB for non-B&N content. Sure, you could always put it on a microSD card, but that's ridiculous, given that the device has 16GB of storage natively. Not even Apple is that bad- the vast majority of the media I have on my iPod did not come from Apple.


I'm sorry, I should have clarified that I was asking about the new Nook tablet (if I didnt)

If I can put my iTunes music on the SD card and listen to it on the device, what's the problem?

Have you priced other high-memory tablets (32+)? They are alot more than $250. It could serve many purposes, maybe even mine.


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## DramaMom (Feb 1, 2010)

alaskazimm said:


> I got the Nook Touch over the Kindle Touch because of the lack of page turn buttons on the Kindle. With a microSD card in the Nook, the content is integrated seamlessly in the library. So far I'm really liking the Nook Touch and to me it's an improvement over my K3 Keyboard.


I've been looking at the Nook Color/Touch but what do you do with all your Kindle books?


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## alaskazimm (Dec 25, 2010)

DramaMom said:


> I've been looking at the Nook Color/Touch but what do you do with all your Kindle books?


I use Calibre to convert them to epub and they load just fine.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

Lursa (was 9MMare) said:


> The SD slot is one thing that makes this much more appealing to me than the Fire. How is the Wi-Fi Web browsing? Pretty fast? Can you load iTunes music onto it?


You can put your music purchased thru itunes as long as you convert it to a compatible format first.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

DramaMom said:


> I've been looking at the Nook Color/Touch but what do you do with all your Kindle books?


You can also root the nook touch and run the kindle app for aneroid. Check youtube.


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## smithbell811 (Nov 21, 2011)

I have 200$ and would like to buy kindle, is there any chance of getting one.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2011)

smithbell811 said:


> I have 200$ and would like to buy kindle, is there any chance of getting one.


Um, yeah..on Amazon.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

alaskazimm said:


> I use Calibre to convert them to epub and they load just fine.


Note that in order to do this with books purchased from Amazon you must strip DRM which is at least against Terms of Service. They won't convert otherwise. . . .


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

smithbell811 said:


> I have 200$ and would like to buy kindle, is there any chance of getting one.


 I'll sell you my old one!  Mind you, it only cost me $189 and it's a 16 months old but. . . . .

Seriously, though, welcome to KB! You don't say where you're located but if in the US you have some options. You can purchase directly from Amazon.com, or various models of Kindle -- from the basic $79 model up to the Kindle Fire which is $199 -- are available at electronics stores and other department type stores.

If you're outside the US, not all models are as readily available.


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## alaskazimm (Dec 25, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Note that in order to do this with books purchased from Amazon you must strip DRM which is at least against Terms of Service. They won't convert otherwise. . . .


Yes, which is why I didn't specify how to do so.


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## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

KindleChickie said:


> You can put your music purchased thru itunes as long as you convert it to a compatible format first.


Thank. Not the answer I wanted, but helpful.


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## RobertKindle (Nov 22, 2011)

Kindle 5 series (my guesses)

Kindle 5 - 4 GB Memory, regular buttons, WiFi, improved e-ink screen
Kindle 5 Touch - 4 GB Memory, regular buttons as well as the touch screen, WiFi or WiFi+3g, improved e-ink screen
Kindle 5 Color - 4 GB and 8 GB model, regular buttons as well as a touch screen, WiFi or WiFi+3g, color e-ink display
Kindle Ice - 16 GB model, WiFi or WiFi+3g with two 3g services; the free one for the books/magazines/newspapers and a paid one for the data heavy digital content.


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