# Thoughts on 70% Royalties and Smashwords/Kindle/Kobo/Nook



## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Endurance has been live for less than a week, and I've made about $4000.

I do understand the 99 price point, because it does prompt more impulse buys, but 35 cents a book vs. $2.04 a book is a huge difference, and I encourage people to consider raising their prices, because I'm proving that people will still pay $2.99. Your ranking may drop, but you have the opportunity to make more money.

I gotta ask you guys something, and I want you to really think about it.

What's more important, the happy feeling you get seeing your Amazon rank and sales volume, or the ability to make more money?

I'm just as obsessive about checking my ranking as anyone. And I want to be read by as many people as possible.

But I also want to make a living at this. And if a higher price means fewer sales but more overall money, that means I'll go with more money every single time I have that option.

I was a #1 Kindle bestseller for six weeks, with a free ebook called SERIAL. The bragging rights are great, but that earned me $0.

When all is said and done, no one but me cares about how many books I sold, or how how high I peaked on the charts. But actually making some money--that has real value.

This could open up into a discussion paralleling what the traditional publishers have been moaning about--that cheap ebooks devalue other books.

I've countered that specious argument with "the value of a book is how much it earns." So my $2.99 ebook is more valuable than a lot of $9.99 bestsellers, because I'm making more money than they are.

That begs the question, though. How valuable is a 99 cent ebook vs. a $2.99 ebook?

I'll be totally honest. When I raised my prices to $2.99, I was concerned I would lose sales and ranking. And I did lose sales and ranking, but my $$$ went up.

So I encourage all of you to really think about why you became writers, and what it is you want out of this business. If it's bragging rights that no one but you cares about, keep your prices low. If it's the ability to really supplement your income, you should experiment with price and find that sweet spot where you have the most profit.

_But I just want to be read._

I understand. I feel the same way. If someone likes what they've read, there's a good chance they'll buy more. So it's a smart idea to have a low-priced ebook, like a loss lead for a department store.

At least, that's the reason we all want to be read, right? So people read more of our stuff and we can get paid for it?

Because, lemme tell you, the joy of getting fanmail wears off. Sounds callous, but its true. Having fans is nice, but I can't keep up with my fanmail, because if I try to I lose valuable writing time.

At any given moment, I can be pretty sure that someone, somewhere in the world, is reading one of my books. That's a nice feeling, but it won't pay my mortgage.

Eventually all writers reach a point where wanting to be read is replaced by wanting to be paid.

If you have ten ebooks selling 20 copies a day at 99 cents, you're making $70 a day. If you have ten ebooks selling 10 copies a day at $2.99, you're making $204 a day. Big difference.

Also, keep in mind that a sale does not guarantee the book will be read. The "I just want to be read" argument really doesn't hold much water because we can't prove people are actually reading us, except for the few reviews we get. It isn't really "I want to be read" because we have no way to know we are. The reality is "I want to sell books and see my numbers", sort of like Skinner pigeons pecking at a lever to get a treat--I say this being guilty of it myself.

I'll also say something that many people don't want to hear, just to foster some thoughts. I've been wondering for a while why some of my ebooks sell much better than others. The reason may actually be: some of my books are better than others.

While a low price and a good cover does sell books, ask yourself: are people buying the book because it's good, or because it's cheap? A cheap, crummy book isn't a bargain, and won't get you read, and won't win you fans, and won't get you repeat sales.

So let's open this up to discussion. What are your goals? Why are those your goals? And how is your current price point helping you reach your future goals?


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Agreed.  "Firefly Island", my own novel, usually sells for $2.99.  Currently it's on sale for 99 cents, but it's going back to up $2.99 next week.  A buck is great for the occasional sale, but $3 makes more sense for the "usual" price.  After all, we need to earn some money from our writing, money that can keep us afloat as we write more books.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

_If_ we sell.


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

Under Endurance, must you ALWAYS price at over 2.99? Is that the locked-in price?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Vyrl said:


> Under Endurance, must you ALWAYS price at over 2.99? Is that the locked-in price?


To get 70% royalty, the book must be between $2.99 and $9.99.

Rereading my post, it sort of sounds like a call to arms. And maybe it is.

How much value would a writer's group for Kindle authors have?

AKA - The Association of Kindle Authors.

I think that should be a separate thread...


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I talked about this on another thread a bit, but I'll repeat my main points here. First of all, I think people tend to think being on genre bestseller lists is solely an ego thing (or a "happy feeling," as you put it). It's not. You yourself have said that it's one of the best ways to get noticed. Therefore, when we debate raising our prices, I think this is a very valid question-- _in the long haul_, will raising prices kill my sales? In the short run, I might make more, but if my books are no longer on genre lists and people aren't seeing them, isn't there a real chance they might stop selling altogether?

Another good question is, what about novellas? I think my novels are worth $2.99 from a market standpoint. But novellas? I have a couple of novellas through a small press, and they can be obtained on Amazon for $2.50. That same publisher has novellas by other authors (including very well-known ones) available for as low as $2.00 on Amazon. I'm happy to charge what the market will bear, but I don't think $2.99 for a novella by a relatively unknown indie romance author is going to be a good price point (this may vary in other genres; I'm just basing this on my observations of my own genre). I really wish Amazon would allow a sliding scale-- 70% royalties for full novels (say 50,000 words and up) priced at $2.99, and novellas priced at, say, $1.99. As it is, I have a lot of novellas, and I plan on keeping them at 99 cents. The novels I will raise to $2.99 (except for my most recent, which I'll keep on sale for a couple of week) and see what happens. But I do hope it doesn't have a seriously adverse effect on my sales.


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> To get 70% royalty, the book must be between $2.99 and $9.99.


Can you price some at $2.99, and others at lower prices, getting 70% for the $2.99 books and 35% for those below the line? Or must all books under one authors' name be, henceforth, priced at 2.99 + or you're kicked out of the system?


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## swcleveland (Jun 6, 2010)

John Fitch V said:


> _If_ we sell.


John, I feel your pain.

Pale Boundaries had ZERO sales at $2.50. I dropped to .99 and averaged 2 sales a day for a week, then it came to a screeching halt again. I've had no reviews from that week of sales, so I have to assume that there's more to sales volume than just price. Maybe I'm just really bad at marketing 

Scott


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

I'm raising the price of my books to $2.99.  I agree with Jack.  We have to value our own work.

Let me say that I love a bargain as much as the next person.  I've purchased my share of 99 cent novels with the attitude of what do I have to lose.  And I've read some very good 99 cent novels.  I've even promoted my own books as 99 cent bargains.  But if I keep them at rock bottom prices indefinitely, what does that say about their worth?  Or my worth as a writer?

I put my heart and soul and years of work into my writing.  I'm proud of my books.  I don't expect anyone to pay top dollar for them at this point.   But it seems to me that Amazon's new royalty model is saying $2.99 is the lowest price readers can expect to pay for an ebook that's in the same league as other ebooks by serious, professional, living authors.

As a reader, I'm no longer going to search for bargain novels priced at less than $2.99.  
As a writer, I'm going to take the plunge, take a deep breath, and up my prices to $2.99 while repeating the mantra: They're more than worth it.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> As a reader, I'm no longer going to search for bargain novels priced at less than $2.99.


How about novellas?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

>>>it is, I have a lot of novellas, and I plan on keeping them at 99 cents.

Have you considered bundling four together and pricing that at $2.99? That gives the reader a bargain, but you make a lot more $$$.


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

I've just got the one book out, and am working on book #2. When I decided to self-published, I began by offering it for free on my website (it's still available for free, for that matter). A month later, I made it available on Kindle for .99.

Sales picked up when a member here posted a link to the free version...apparently readers were willing to shell out the buck for an official Amazon copy. Over the course of a year, word-of-mouth helped me to get into the top 1000 where (after a brief, exciting boost to #49) I've remained fairly steadily. I average between 25-30 copies sold per day.

Last month, I raised the price to 1.99, which Amazon promptly reduced back to .99. The upside: I still get royalties based on the 1.99 price. Whee!

I'm keeping it where it is, even though I'm confident I could raise it to 2.99 and still keep my sales going strong. Once the new book is out, I'll release that at the 2.99/70% royalty rate. I'll decide then what to do with book #1. 

It's not a matter of keeping the sales rank up, but of making it an easy decision for readers to take a chance on an unknown, self-published author. Reader feedback runs along the "this book is worth more than .99, I'll definitely buy her next book" lines. Only time will tell if it'll pay off...although I feel confident that it will.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

swcleveland said:


> Pale Boundaries had ZERO sales at $2.50.


I encourage experimenting. If sales are flat, change the cover. Change the title. Change the book description.

Also, look at the free sample of your book, read it, and try to judge if it immediately grabs people, or perhaps needs a better hook, or a faster opening.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> Have you considered bundling four together and pricing that at $2.99? That gives the reader a bargain, but you make a lot more $$$.


*Shrugs* I have two contemporaries I could bundle. I have a sci-fi romance spoof that has no resemblance to anything else I've written. I don't really think it belongs with anything else. I plan to write a sequel this summer, and I might consider bundling the two of them then. But right now I don't think it would fit with anything else.

At any rate, my master plan for keeping my name out there involves writing lots and lots of novellas. I just can't see charging $2.99 for them.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

While I was reading 5 new replies were posted. This must be a hot topic.

If I had a new one to put out now, I would go $2.99, but would there be any benefit to raising the price on one that's been online for a couple of years and has total sales under 100? The new one I have is with the agent, and I don't know what she's doing, if anything.

And Jack/Joe: $4,000 smackeroos? Geez, that would be, like, a real job. It would pay the rent NOW, not after the years I am facing for the traditional system to work (if it ever does.)


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> >>>it is, I have a lot of novellas, and I plan on keeping them at 99 cents.
> 
> Have you considered bundling four together and pricing that at $2.99? That gives the reader a bargain, but you make a lot more $$$.


That's exactly what I plan to do. I might release a few at 99 cents just to see if people see a single novella as more like a novel, but a collection as more like an anthology of "short" stories - and which they'd prefer.

The other thing is that there is always the possibility of sales. At least through Smashwords and their coupons. Or have an entry book at a lower price. I think a super cheap price only works when it feels like a deal - either a temporary promotion, a coupon, or at least in comparison to other prices. Otherwise it loses its impact after a bit.

Camille


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

Jack/Joe... 

You have one freebie title and all the rest are at 2.99. Your rate is 70% giving you approx $2.10 per sale. OK very cool.

But then I notice some of your best-sellers have been priced by amazon at $1.59. Is Amazon taking a loss on these titles? If so, why?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

_Last month, I raised the price to 1.99, which Amazon promptly reduced back to .99. The upside: I still get royalties based on the 1.99 price. Whee!
_

and

_But then I notice some of your best-sellers have been priced by amazon at $1.59. Is Amazon taking a loss on these titles?
_

Amazon reduces book prices to match prices on their competitor's sites. It's 99 cents probably because you have it on Smashwords, B&N, iTunes, iPad, Sony, or Kobo at 99 cents.

For those who have $2.99 books that are lower process elsewhere, Amazon will only pay 70% of the lowest price.

For example, I list ORIGIN at $2.99, but it is $1.59 on Kobo. So Amazon put it on "sale" for $1.59, and I only get 70% of $1.59, not $2.99.


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm seeing more and more people saying they don't put much faith into 99c books and I'm pretty sure the less spent on a book, the longer it can take to get around to reading it.  I only have short story collections on Kindle. I won't be raising the price on those.  I plan on putting a $2.99 price on any novel I upload to Kindle though.  I figure people can sample my writing and see if they feel it's worth that price.  If I only had one book on Kindle then I might not price it that way but it makes sense to me to have a range of prices as an unknown.

I'm not expecting to earn a fortune.  As it is I only sell on average around one copy a day - but I have time, I'm just starting out with ebooks, I'm still learning and I'm open to change and progress.  The thing about pricing is we can change it if it isn't working, along with covers, descriptions and promotional techniques.  It would be better for indies if $2.99 became the new typical price especially with the 70% royalty rate but I'm sure a lot of people will go back to 99c before looking for other reasons why they might not be selling.  I couldn't buy a cup of coffee in Dublin for the price of a $2.99 book so I feel like it is a reasonable price point for a decent book.  It would also be good if the new royalty rates  applied to the bargain prices of below $2.99.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Endurance has been live for less than a week, and I've made about $4000.
> 
> I do understand the 99 price point, because it does prompt more impulse buys, but 35 cents a book vs. $2.04 a book is a huge difference, and I encourage people to consider raising their prices, because I'm proving that people will still pay $2.99. Your ranking may drop, but you have the opportunity to make more money.
> 
> ...


With a couple of posts today you have ensured that I will never buy another one of your books.


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Amazon reduces book prices to match prices on their competitor's sites. It's 99 cents probably because you have it on Smashwords, B&N, iTunes, iPad, Sony, or Kobo at 99 cents.
> 
> For those who have $2.99 books that are lower process elsewhere, Amazon will only pay 70% of the lowest price.
> 
> For example, I list ORIGIN at $2.99, but it is $1.59 on Kobo. So Amazon put it on "sale" for $1.59, and I only get 70% of $1.59, not $2.99.


Fantastic! And thanks for answering


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

R. Reed said:


> And Jack/Joe: $4,000 smackeroos? Geez, that would be, like, a real job. It would pay the rent NOW, not after the years I am facing for the traditional system to work (if it ever does.)


When has the traditional model ever worked?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

John Fitch V said:


> When has the traditional model ever worked?


With my first Jack Kilborn novel, Afraid, I sold about 50,000 copies. That earned me $30,000. That's pretty good for a traditionally published book, and more than most of my professional peers earn.

But Kindle offers an opportunity to do even better than that. Trapped and Endurance will each earn more than $30,000. It may take a year or two, but they will.

The traditional model worked for a few people. Perhaps this new model will only work for a few people as well, but I think it will work for a greater percentage of writers than the traditional model has.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Okay, here's a reader's point of view.  As an intro to a new author, I like the cheapest price available.  So, if you want to hook readers, price one of your books (the first in a series, perhaps) at 99 cents.  Price the rest at $2.99 or even $3.99 or $4.99, that's most reader's cut point for e-book.   And keep the low price for a good long time.  Discounting something for a month may get you new readers in that month, but remember, unlike brick and mortar stores, your book will be on the kindle for more than just that month, and people buy their e-book readers throughout the year.  So pick one as a "loss-leader" to hook the customer into your brand. 

And remember, just because you've been writing a long time and don't consider yourself a "new" writer, you're new to new kindle/ipad/whatever readers.  

If you're writing to make money (and there's nothing wrong with that), price as high as you think you can get. 

As for the novella question, I always ask an author to tell me length (either print or amazon locations, NOT file size), and I'll pay 2.99 for something over 100 pages.  I won't pay even 99 cents for a short story, but I will happily pay 5.99 for an anthology.  Just my idea of value for my buck.


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## Gus Flory (Oct 13, 2009)

I'll be going up to $2.99 in a couple days. We'll see how it goes.


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

Good question, Jack, and something I've been pondering. I was selling my 492 page historical (White Seed: The Untold Story of The Lost Colony of Roanoke) for $4.99 and averaging about twenty copies a month. I reduced the price to 99 cents and I've sold 150 so far this month and might make two hundred. I have noticed that most of folks who bought it also bought other 99 cent or free books. I think a lot of these folks are probably 'stocking up' on cheapies and may not get around to reading it for months. But, some of the purchasers are historical fiction fans, the readers I want to get the word out.

But, yes, I do feel bad to be essentially giving a book away, a book that I spent years getting ready. And I've intended to raise it back up, probably in August. I don't know if I'll go back up to $4.99, but at least to $2.99. Yes, it's always bothered me that there is this growing perception that anything on the internet, be it music, books, art... you should be able to get it for free.

There may well turn out to be a two tiered system and I know where I want to be.

So, I'm with you on not 'giving it away.' But I may wait till August to raise my prices. I'm thinking maybe when I launch a book I'll keep the price at 99 cents for the first month or so, then move it up to where it should be.

Best!

Paul Clayton

WHITE SEED: The Untold Story of the Lost Colony of Roanoke


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## Gus Flory (Oct 13, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Okay, here's a reader's point of view. As an intro to a new author, I like the cheapest price available. So, if you want to hook readers, price one of your books (the first in a series, perhaps) at 99 cents. Price the rest at $2.99 or even $3.99 or $4.99, that's most reader's cut point for e-book. And keep the low price for a good long time. Discounting something for a month may get you new readers in that month, but remember, unlike brick and mortar stores, your book will be on the kindle for more than just that month, and people buy their e-book readers throughout the year. So pick one as a "loss-leader" to hook the customer into your brand.
> 
> And remember, just because you've been writing a long time and don't consider yourself a "new" writer, you're new to new kindle/ipad/whatever readers.
> 
> ...


Great advice!


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Okay, here's a reader's point of view. As an intro to a new author, I like the cheapest price available. So, if you want to hook readers, price one of your books (the first in a series, perhaps) at 99 cents. Price the rest at $2.99 or even $3.99 or $4.99, that's most reader's cut point for e-book. And keep the low price for a good long time. Discounting something for a month may get you new readers in that month, but remember, unlike brick and mortar stores, your book will be on the kindle for more than just that month, and people buy their e-book readers throughout the year. So pick one as a "loss-leader" to hook the customer into your brand.
> 
> And remember, just because you've been writing a long time and don't consider yourself a "new" writer, you're new to new kindle/ipad/whatever readers.
> 
> ...


As always, Scarlet, thanks for the reader POV.

Joe, you're aren't trying to keep us from undercutting you, now are you  Just kidding.

My books are on a sliding scale and always have been. I do not plan on offering any new books under $2.99. The books I have now will be changing prices, but I do plan on leaving at least one at an intro $1.99 price tag. The anthologies are going to be $1.99 as well (which means Sage will go up in price as soon as Amazon moves it off its current sale price of 79 cents.)

This is a great discussion!


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

scarlet said:


> Okay, here's a reader's point of view. As an intro to a new author, I like the cheapest price available. So, if you want to hook readers, price one of your books (the first in a series, perhaps) at 99 cents. Price the rest at $2.99 or even $3.99 or $4.99, that's most reader's cut point for e-book. And keep the low price for a good long time. Discounting something for a month may get you new readers in that month, but remember, unlike brick and mortar stores, your book will be on the kindle for more than just that month, and people buy their e-book readers throughout the year. So pick one as a "loss-leader" to hook the customer into your brand.


I agree with this philosophy. It's good to have at least one loss-leader. Jack/Joe has a freebie, and that probably helps to support his larger sales.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I really don't feel that 99 cents is "giving" a book away.  I've made my car payment the past two months.  Not a huge amount, but a lot more than I made in the past writing for small presses.  I can easily see myself making quite a bit more down the line, if trends continue.   

That being said, my major concern here is that we don't start dissing other authors.  For example, the idea (which I've seen a couple of places now) that wanting to be highly ranked on genre bestseller lists is an ego thing, rather than a sensible career move, seems to me a bit dismissive.  I'm sure there is ego involved for most of us, but it also makes sense to want to be highly rated, and thus more visible.  I'd also hate to see people being criticized because they want to stick with the 99 cent price point because they feel like they owe it to their readers or whatever.  People may have good and valid reasons for not wanting to go up to $2.99.

But again, I do plan on raising my novels to $2.99.  However, they've never done well at that price point before, so I admit to a certain amount of trepidation.  By raising some prices I'm throwing a wrench into a system that has been working fairly well for me.  We shall see.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> Joe, you're aren't trying to keep us from undercutting you, now are you  Just kidding.


LOL. I'm fine with being undercut, and all authors should be, because we're not in competition with each other. If the books are under three bucks, a fan can buy you, me, and seven others (or more) for the same price as a new hardcover.

We're no longer in a world of "I have a limited budget, so I can buy this OR this."

The world is now "I can buy both, and still have money to spend.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

intinst said:


> With a couple of posts today you have ensured that I will never buy another one of your books.


Um, why?

I have to ask because from what you chose to quote, you appear to object to a writer making a living. It's not like he's advocating cranking up prices to 14.99. Given Amazon's rules, 2.99 is the price point where those of us who _aren't_ Joe Konrath could actually make enough money to give us the leeway to keep writing.

I always love this crap about how writers shouldn't care about making a living. In Hollywood, where everyone else has a sweet deal, and talks money all over the place, and it's all greed greed greed - when a writer asks about getting paid everyone looks at him as if he just farted in public. And very often, all the writer asked is "am I going to be paid scale?" (i.e. the minimum professional rate)

Look, we all write for the love of it. We all write because we can't NOT write, and we all consider the golden rule of _writing_ to be "thou shalt not bore the reader." But we still all have to pay the bills. We all have to eat. And publishing is NOT the same activity as writing. Sorry to burst your bubble (if your bubble wasn't too thick to burst).

Camille


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> We're no longer in a world of "I have a limited budget, so I can buy this OR this."
> 
> The world is now "I can buy both, and still have money to spend.


Jack, I have to disagree with this. A lot of people are in the situation of having to be very budgeted (there have been a number of threads on that subject) and may be very sensitive to price point.

Another thing to remember is that people are more likely to one-click something at 99 cents, but may sample something at a higher price first. So make sure your sample is not full of filler, and gets right to the first chapter of your book.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

_For example, the idea (which I've seen a couple of places now) that wanting to be highly ranked on genre bestseller lists is an ego thing, rather than a sensible career move, seems to me a bit dismissive. _

That's a good point, but it's only valid for people who are on the bestseller lists, and I'd guess the majority isn't. I may be wrong, though.

Wanting to keep your ranking on a bestseller list is obvious, because it is self-fulfilling. The more browsers who see you on the list, the more who will buy you, which keeps you on the list.

But unless you truly do some experimenting, it's a faulty, untested premise. Are you sure you would fall off the list if you raised your prices? I raised all my prices, and didn't fall off a single list. I lost a few spots, but the books are still there.

How do you know, unless you try, if a 99 cent book on a bestseller list earns more than a $2.99 book off a bestseller list? We can guess this might be the case, but we have to prove it. Or else you're just defending a guess, not a fact.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Um, why?
> 
> I have to ask because from what you chose to quote, you appear to object to a writer making a living. It's not like he's advocating cranking up prices to 14.99. Given Amazon's rules, 2.99 is the price point where those of us who _aren't_ Joe Konrath could actually make enough money to give us the leeway to keep writing.
> 
> ...


Amen, Camille. And you just got me to buy your book. Check your numbers in.... mark.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Jack, I have to disagree with this. A lot of people are in the situation of having to be very budgeted (there have been a number of threads on that subject) and may be very sensitive to price point.


Please elaborate.

So 99 cents is okay, but $2.99 is not? Or are we talking the difference between $2.99 and $9.99?

Until ebooks, the only place to get a book for $2.99 was at a used bookstore. I've shopped at many used bookstores (I have about 5000 paperbacks) but when the books were less expensive I always found myself buying more.

For example, if I went to a bookstore to get the new Robert B. Parker in hardcover, I paid my $25 and left without buying anything else. But if I went to the paperback exchange, I always left with a bag full of books, because they were so cheap.


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

I've settled for the $2.99 price. Not because I'll get the 70% royalty and make more profit. And not because I think my work is worth more than 99 cents.

I tried the 99 cent experiment briefly and was not impressed. Yes, more sold, but not that much more. Certainly not the 10x many touted. But then I'm in a niche, rather than a standard thriller, mystery, romantic comedy or vampire tale, so I expect that. My humble sales are no surprise. It's about maintaining steady sales, or better yet, steadily growing sales, not the absolute number or sales rank. Compare to yourself yesterday, not others today.

For those who argue, "but I want to be read by as many..." I suspect a great many of the copies I distributed during the surge of free and 99 cent sales very well may be going unread as we speak. People buy during a sale for the sake of grabbing a deal. I'd prefer someone pays the price and buys the book because they are interested in the story and would like to read it, I hope, sooner rather than later, if ever. Once lost among a thousand other cheap titles, the odds of getting read plummet.

My work will be read, I am confident. There is no need to hurry up the process by putting items "on sale." It's not like I have an inventory to clear out before having to pay taxes on it. Finding your audience takes time, one must be patient. And no, the whole world is not anyone's audience. Any author who believes that is in for a rude awakening and perhaps a shattered ego. The world is full of different tastes. Some like this, some like that.

Though I've said it above, that I'm not adopting the $2.99 price because I think my work is worth more than 99 cents, I do think any novel is worth more than a bag of chips. The earlier message about novellas, sure, I wouldn't force a higher price for shorter length works, but you can't blame Amazon for not being willing to reward low-profit items with the larger cut. As a retailer, they have to draw the line somewhere, and they have--$2.99. Below that the royalty drops. Fair enough.

And that brings me to the biggest reason I've adopted the $2.99 price. A reason that may not have been considered yet. I've seen nothing discussed about it, though perhaps I missed it. I look at it this way--none of this would be possible without Amazon. Kindles, indie authors, this very board wouldn't exist. We'd either be traditionally pubbed and broke or vanity pubbed and broke. But Amazon changed all that. They are an innovative leader. They are winners, not only in general, but likely the most winningest idea in publishing today. Most others (B&N, Apple) are following their stellar example of how they are MAKING the book business become.

Amazon wants ebooks priced between $2.99 to $9.99. That's a fair price range for both author and reader. I trust that Amazon has chosen these price points wisely, and further trust they will continue to exist to the benefit of indie authors and readers alike. In this case, I will gladly follow the leader, and so I choose the $2.99 low end (since I'm an unknown indie). I urge all others to do the same and allow Amazon to take us where we're all headed.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> Amazon wants ebooks priced between $2.99 to $9.99. That's a fair price range for both author and reader. I trust that Amazon has chosen these price points wisely, and further trust they will continue to exist to the benefit of indie authors and readers alike. In this case, I will gladly follow the leader, and so I chose the $2.99 low end (since I'm an unknown indie). I urge all others to do the same and allow Amazon to take us where we're all headed.


And let the publishers twist their ankles jumping on the bandwagon


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

scarlet said:


> Jack, I have to disagree with this. A lot of people are in the situation of having to be very budgeted (there have been a number of threads on that subject) and may be very sensitive to price point.
> 
> Another thing to remember is that people are more likely to one-click something at 99 cents, but may sample something at a higher price first. So make sure your sample is not full of filler, and gets right to the first chapter of your book.


This is a good point, and I have to say that I am one of those people who can't afford to buy every book that looks interesting. But this is why I am a heavier and heavier user of Smashwords. The sample there is long enough that I can sit down and read the sample in my normal reading conditions, for as long as I would normally read in a session. I don't really get hooked on a sample which is too short, so I'm still left dithering about whether I can afford this book over that book. I wish Amazon would include a larger sample than they do, but we just have to be careful about our front matter.

And this is a lesson to those who aren't sure if it's worth the effort to put their book at Smashwords - yes it is. You may not sell a lot, but people like me will look for your samples there, and even if we don't particularly want to read your book ourselves, if we've read enough of the sample, we can still recommend it to friends who have different tastes. (I do it all the time.)

And to John Fitch: thank you! (And that sale officially makes this my best month so far, such as it is...)

Camille


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Please elaborate.
> 
> So 99 cents is okay, but $2.99 is not? Or are we talking the difference between $2.99 and $9.99?
> 
> ...


When people are budgeting everything in their lives, yes, the 2 dollars between 99 cents and 2.99 make a big difference for them, just as it makes a difference for you on your royalities side.

And I'm a bit confused at your analogy of the used bookstore/hardcover, since it seems to suggest that the lower the price, the more you buy. So why not just lower your price?

One thing I find important to keep in mind is that we can't look at the old brick and mortar sales strategies for e-books. There are a lot more authors available, and as I already said, new readers coming on board all the time.

But in the end, each author must figure out what works for them.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> How do you know, unless you try, if a 99 cent book on a bestseller list earns more than a $2.99 book off a bestseller list? We can guess this might be the case, but we have to prove it. Or else you're just defending a guess, not a fact.


Oh, I agree completely, Joe. This is why I'm taking a shot at $2.99, even though I haven't been able to move books at higher prices in the past. I'm gambling that I'm well enough known now that people will keep buying my books, to certain degree at least. I'm just saying there are good and valid reasons for people to hesitate, too. And once you lose your momentum, it can be hard to get it back.



> That's a good point, but it's only valid for people who are on the bestseller lists, and I'd guess the majority isn't. I may be wrong, though.


Okay, that's fair. Yes, if you're not on a genre bestseller list somewhere, then rankings don't matter all that much. I agree.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

scarlet said:


> And I'm a bit confused at your analogy of the used bookstore/hardcover, since it seems to suggest that the lower the price, the more you buy. So why not just lower your price?


The goal is to find that "sweet spot" of sales vs. profit. I could lower my price and sell more copies, but I wouldn't make as much money.


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

I think it's important to consider whether or not you're audience building... 

If your audience is large enough and loyal enough to support the higher price point, then fantastic. But if you're selling 4 or 5 times the amount you would at 2.99, then it may be worth considering keeping the lower price. Also, different audiences have different price sensitivity, so I think each author will have to feel their way. 

One other point, I don't think it's fair or a good idea to make blanket judgments on others based on the price of their books. There are many services/products which demonstrated value by giving away products or pricing them very low in order to enter the market. George R.R. Martin started selling paperbacks at the, then very low price of 3.99, and did very well entering the market. Later, his hardbacks sold for 30+. 

Just some thoughts...


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Vyrl said:


> One other point, I don't think it's fair or a good idea to make blanket judgments on others based on the price of their books. There are many services/products which demonstrated value by giving away products or pricing them very low in order to enter the market. George R.R. Martin started selling paperbacks at the, then very low price of 3.99, and did very well entering the market. Later, his hardbacks sold for 30+.
> 
> Just some thoughts...


Good point. And I think it's also important to not assume things about readers based on how much they are willing to pay for books.


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## Barbara Morgenroth (May 14, 2010)

I would love to raise my price to $2.99 but both of the books with images in my sig are fairly short.  One's a semi-recipe book and the other is for middle readers.  If length is an element in the price equation, then my book/work isn't worth as much as an adult novel.  Neither of these fall into a category which is hot hot hot like a police procedural, so I don't think there's the kind of traffic other genres get.  I was planning to raise the price to $1.99 after July 4 if only because psychologically that's not a price point I'm comfortable with.

Robin


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

To the poster who said authors should mention the number of pages, I would only add that the publishing world goes by number of words. Our page count is different depending on the format, print or digital. Even the file size for digital isn't an accurate estimate of what you're buying as someone informed me on another forum. 

That said, I say go for the higher price point. We love writing, but we like to eat too. Pricing low only deflates the value of all your time and hard work.

Joyce


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Vyrl said:


> I think it's important to consider whether or not you're audience building...
> 
> If your audience is large enough and loyal enough to support the higher price point, then fantastic. But if you're selling 4 or 5 times the amount you would at 2.99, then it may be worth considering keeping the lower price. Also, different audiences have different price sensitivity, so I think each author will have to feel their way.


Exactly. Do I think my book is _worth _ more than .99? Absolutely. But I'm thinking long-term.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Good point. And I think it's also important to not assume things about readers based on how much they are willing to pay for books.


So what's a fair price for ebooks? Again, I ask out of genuine curiosity.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

intinst said:


> With a couple of posts today you have ensured that I will never buy another one of your books.


Yes, like another poster asked, what is the problem? Writers spent countless months/years, on a book and while we all want people to read our stuff, getting paid for our efforts shouldn't be a bad thing. Heck, my husband has been laid off for 2 years. Thankfully, he already had a side business as a photographer, but in these times, people don't want to pay for photography either. He does youth sports, and would put pics up on a website for parents to view and purchase. He actually had one guy ask him how to get the watermark off the picture on the website because the guy wanted to print it at home and not order it. Uh...duh! You buy it! Grrr...


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

MaryMcDonald said:


> He actually had one guy ask him how to get the watermark off the picture on the website because the guy wanted to print it at home and not order it. Uh...duh! You buy it! Grrr...


Did you kick him? 'Cause I woulda.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

I hiked the price of _The Ryel Saga_ from 99 cents to $2.99 a month ago. It made no difference at all in sales; I've always averaged 5 or so a day. Amazon glitched my listings during the first two weeks of June, making the book unavailable for purchase, but it's still been a pretty good month.

To draw people away from the now-obsolete duology, I priced each volume at $6.99, but people still buy them every once in a while. Very many readers think nothing of paying 7 or more bucks a book, no matter who's written it. Bless them!

My short fiction will stay at 99 cents. They're the gateway drug. 

May we all prosper,

CK


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Jack, I have to disagree with this. A lot of people are in the situation of having to be very budgeted (there have been a number of threads on that subject) and may be very sensitive to price point.
> 
> Another thing to remember is that people are more likely to one-click something at 99 cents, but may sample something at a higher price first. So make sure your sample is not full of filler, and gets right to the first chapter of your book.


I"m with Scarlet on this one. I sell cozies--which often means a retired set who are quite used to and comfortable with getting books from a library, a library sale or used. I'm on a budget myself. Now, I do buy books that are under 5 dollars and range from that 99 cent to 5 dollars; more in a few cases where I like the author--BUT even at 2.99, it is either or. I don't go buy two books at that price. I read one and then go hunt for the next book I want to read.

The point is that I think what Kindle has done isn't just attract people who bought at 14.99 and 25 bucks--it has created an entire set of sales that used to belong to the library or used--but our books are now in the right price range for those who only have a few bucks a month to spend on entertainment.

I am thrilled to be selling in that range--because it's the most common range where I have purchased for the last several years (at least 10.)

Maria


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## Barbara Morgenroth (May 14, 2010)

I don't know what the right price in general, as a blanket statement, is for an ebook.  The economy may feel a lot worse to some people than others, it might be better in some parts of the country than others.  I would bet people along the Gulf Coast aren't splurging on books right now.  To some industries, the downturn may not be so evident.  As always, I'm willing to pay more for a book I know I will return to many times in the coming years, than something disposable, for 2 hours of entertainment but I'm on a budget.  The good part is that we can change the price any time we like.

Robin


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> _Last month, I raised the price to 1.99, which Amazon promptly reduced back to .99. The upside: I still get royalties based on the 1.99 price. Whee!
> _
> 
> and
> ...


But Joe--isn't Kobo's price their discount, not yours? In other words isn't your list price $2.99? There have been multiple discussions on how the discounting is based on LIST prices elsewhere, not specials a particular site may choose to offer.

And Amazon has my book on sale for 79 cents. It is on Kobobooks for that, but the list price is still 99 cents, which is where I set the price.

Maria


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

MariaESchneider said:


> But Joe--isn't Kobo's price their discount, not yours? In other words isn't your list price $2.99? There have been multiple discussions on how the discounting is based on LIST prices elsewhere, not specials a particular site may choose to offer.
> 
> And Amazon has my book on sale for 79 cents. It is on Kobobooks for that, but the list price is still 99 cents, which is where I set the price.
> 
> Maria


The price I have on Amazon is the price I set. It hasn't been discounted. No, I'm not bitter about this.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

John Fitch V said:


> The price I have on Amazon is the price I set. It hasn't been discounted. No, I'm not bitter about this.


no, no, not bitter at all...


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

As a reader and not a writer, anything under $7 I consider to be a good price.  I may not be the 'average' buyer - but this is how I look at pricing.


My book wishlist has a group that range from around $4.50 to $6.99.   These I'll just buy when I'm ready to read them.  Mixed in there are books from smaller presses, indie authors as well as the big boys.  Books priced higher than that need to meet my other price points, but that's a different conversation ....  There are also books priced $4 and under on my list - and these are pretty much all independent authors.  

In an ebook oriented world, I tend to think that indie authors are on a more equal footing with publishing companies and I don't mind if their books are priced in the same range as them.  I read traditionally published authors I'm not familiar with - I won't usually pay over $13 for these unknown authors, but I'll pay a 'paperback' price.  I don't see a reason not to treat independent authors the same way and hold their pricing, reader reviews and all that to the same criteria.   

Where I may be thinking a little counter-intuitively is that I'm more likely to buy a full sized novel by an independent author priced over $4 than I am one priced at $.99.   I know it's possibly unfair, but for the lower prices novels, when I'm not familiar with the author, I scrutinize the reviews much more closely to determine if it's an edited, serious publication or a vanity novel ...  

Now, if a book is $4 and discounted lower, I'll assume its a sale or, as Scarlet suggested, a hook to get me to try it before reading all the rest of the your novels ...


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So what's a fair price for ebooks? Again, I ask out of genuine curiosity.


Fair is very subjective. As I said, I'm willing to pay up to $5.99 for a novel, up to $9.99 if it's something I really want. I've even gone over the 9.99 cut point for something I REALLY, REALLY wanted. I do tend to look at length/price ratio, but that's just me. There are people who won't pay $9.99 for anything. People who will quickly buy at 99 cents but balk at $2.99.

So, it's up to the author to set their price. Some people will buy, some people won't. Don't take it personally if someone doesn't want to pay it. On the flip side, readers need to not take it personally when an author (or publisher) sets a price that they consider too high.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

MariaESchneider said:


> no, no, not bitter at all...
> [/quot e]


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> But Joe--isn't Kobo's price their discount, not yours? In other words isn't your list price $2.99? There have been multiple discussions on how the discounting is based on LIST prices elsewhere, not specials a particular site may choose to offer.
> 
> And Amazon has my book on sale for 79 cents. It is on Kobobooks for that, but the list price is still 99 cents, which is where I set the price.
> 
> Maria


In the terms of service, Amazon says if you want the 70% royalty rate, you must agree that you can't sell your book for less than $2.99. If you sign up for 70%, they will pay you 70% of the lowest price it is available on the internet. If Kobo sells it for less, Amazon will match it, and base the rate on their price.

If you opt for 35%, Amazon will still match competitor's prices, but you get it on the list price, not their sale price. But there is a cap for this, so you can't sell on Kobo for 99 cents and Amazon for $9.99 and expect Amazon to put you on sale for 99 cents and still make 35% of ten bucks.

Got it?


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

scarlet said:


> I do tend to look at length/price ratio, but that's just me.


I'm with you on this. I'm willing to play much less for a novella than for a full length novel.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> In the terms of service, Amazon says if you want the 70% royalty rate, you must agree that you can't sell your book for less than $2.99. If you sign up for 70%, they will pay you 70% of the lowest price it is available on the internet. If Kobo sells it for less, Amazon will match it, and base the rate on their price.
> 
> If you opt for 35%, Amazon will still match competitor's prices, but you get it on the list price, not their sale price. But there is a cap for this, so you can't sell on Kobo for 99 cents and Amazon for $9.99 and expect Amazon to put you on sale for 99 cents and still make 35% of ten bucks.
> 
> Got it?


I understand what you are saying, but that is not the way I read the contract. I'll go back and read it again, but it's my understanding that yes, they may match prices BUT they pay on list price so long as I am not the one discounting.

thanks.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

scarlet said:


> Fair is very subjective. As I said, I'm willing to pay up to $5.99 for a novel, up to $9.99 if it's something I really want. I've even gone over the 9.99 cut point for something I REALLY, REALLY wanted. I do tend to look at length/price ratio, but that's just me. There are people who won't pay $9.99 for anything. People who will quickly buy at 99 cents but balk at $2.99.
> 
> So, it's up to the author to set their price. Some people will buy, some people won't. Don't take it personally if someone doesn't want to pay it. On the flip side, readers need to not take it personally when an author (or publisher) sets a price that they consider too high.


Terrific answer.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

I think that's what we're doing.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Joyce DeBacco said:


> To the poster who said authors should mention the number of pages, I would only add that the publishing world goes by number of words. Our page count is different depending on the format, print or digital. Even the file size for digital isn't an accurate estimate of what you're buying as someone informed me on another forum.
> 
> That said, I say go for the higher price point. We love writing, but we like to eat too. Pricing low only deflates the value of all your time and hard work.
> 
> Joyce


I ask for page length of a print editon (most people know what their page length would be in a soft cover book) or amazon locations. Word count does not mean anything to me (I mean I can't convert a word count into a length, it's not the reference I get), and file size means absolutely nothing for me. Personally these days I prefer locations, since I do all my reading on amazon. Wish amazon would give that info as part of their kindle book info, but the don't, so I ask the author.

Also, I don't ask only to get a length/price ratio, I also like to know how long something is before I invest my time.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> I understand what you are saying, but that is not the way I read the contract. I'll go back and read it again, but it's my understanding that yes, they may match prices BUT they pay on list price so long as I am not the one discounting.
> 
> thanks.


These are the new terms of service. The brand new ones. Unless something changes before July 1.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I ask for page length of a print editon (most people know what their page length would be in a soft cover book)...


I'm reluctant to list it that way, because it varies so wildly. The novel I just put up, _Love Remembered_, is 110,000 words long, which ought to make it somewhere between 300 and 400 pages in a standard mass market paperback. The edition my prior publisher issued in trade paperback, however, was only 251 pages long. The HTML version is only 222 pages long. My first book, which WAS released in mass market, was about 98,000 words and 325 pages-- but larger print could have easily added fifty pages to the length, had the publisher wanted to do that. This is why I tend to refer to my books in word count-- it never varies. Actual page length can vary in a big way.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Patrick L. Halliwell said:


> "our system automatically performs a random check on the price of your title on other sites. If it finds a price lower than the one you had quoted for your Kindle version, the Kindle title will be made unbuyable on our site, irrespective of whether it was a discounted price or not."


That's not what I've been told. And it really doesn't make sense for Amazon to do that.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Stepping in as a reader I'll say I tend to pay between $4-$11 a book. I don't pay much attention to who publishes it. What I do pay attention to is- in this order: 1) the description. If I can't read it and stay interested, which is actually very common, I don't know who writes them, but some are unintelligible, I won't sample it. 2) The sample, if it is formatted badly, the sample is to small to tell if I like the writing, or the writing is just bad I won't buy it. 3) If I won't pay $9.99 for it, I won't pay $2.99, and if I won't pay $2.99 I won't pay .99 cents. Because it is my time that is the most valuable part of what I spend reading. 
My advice is to work on the skills in writing and presentation if you want to make a living at writing. I think writers need return customers and word of mouth. Which means not only do you have to sell the book, but people have to read it. 
And, my only comment on Intinst's post is I get what he is saying. I got the same put off'ish feeling reading the OP.  I  think authors should make money, as I spend plenty every month helping that cause, but, IMO, it wouldn't hurt for authors in these parts of the forums to keep in mind readers do lurk and we don't see ourselves as your wallets. Just sayin...


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> That's not what I've been told. And it really doesn't make sense for Amazon to do that.


The contract I read referred to list price. That may indeed be changing when we opt in at the end of the month. From reading ONE other author post--if the price is ZERO on another site, they asked the author to either make it equal or remove the book from Amazon. I do not recall if they actually froze the book until the price was changed or if there was a window of opportunity to change it.

It's gonna get hairy out there...and mileage may truly vary...


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

daringnovelist said:


> Um, why?
> 
> I have to ask because from what you chose to quote, you appear to object to a writer making a living. It's not like he's advocating cranking up prices to 14.99. Given Amazon's rules, 2.99 is the price point where those of us who _aren't_ Joe Konrath could actually make enough money to give us the leeway to keep writing.
> 
> ...


Well as readers we all have our I just can't buy this author list, the OP isn't on my do-no-buy list but I've added another one  .
Yes, I know you don't care. That'll teach me


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

LauraB said:


> it wouldn't hurt for authors in these parts of the forums to keep in mind readers do lurk and we don't see ourselves as your wallets. Just sayin...


Readers are hugely important. Which is why I offer readers great books at low prices. If I thought of readers as nothing but wallets, I'd charge $9.99.

If a reader likes an author's work, I don't believe $2.99 is too much to pay. And by paying $2.99, the reader gives the author a much bigger profit--bigger than they get from buying a $25 hardcover.

The more money authors make, they more time they can devote to writing and giving readers more good books.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> If a reader likes an author's work, I don't believe $2.99 is too much to pay.


Neither do I, that is why I pay more than that 90% of the the time.



> The more money authors make, they more time they can devote to writing and giving readers more good books.


Really...thanks you for the lesson, who'd a thunk...

You writers just carry on...


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LauraB said:


> Well as readers we all have our I just can't buy this author list, the OP isn't on my do-no-buy list but I've added another one  .
> Yes, I know you don't care. That'll teach me


If you'd actually pay attention, you'd know that I am also a person who can't afford to pay more than 99 cents for most books. A higher price really puts the squeeze on me. While not everybody here is a writer, EVERYBODY here is a reader, and understands well the problems of being a reader.

But though I can't afford higher prices, I don't get snarky about the fact that a publisher (and that's what we're talking about here - publishing not writing) has to charge enough to cover costs and make a living. It IS a business, and yes, we need to discuss business matters.

You're saying that writers have no business talking about the business of publishing. Which is simply another way of saying that writers have no business making a living. If you're going to make a living you HAVE to talk about this stuff.

I care about whether my readers can afford my work. I care about whether I can afford to read. But you are correct, I don't care if you are offended by the need of writers to make a living.

Camille


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

John Fitch V said:


> And let the publishers twist their ankles jumping on the bandwagon


Yep. Chapter two in this unfolding saga. If nothing else, the next few years of the publishing industry's evolution will be an entertaining tale to behold. How it will end, who knows, though I might predict, more people reading than ever before. In that respect, we're all part of a great change in human history. Regardless of sales rank, profits, or who wants to read my work, I am honored to be involved.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> If you'd actually pay attention, you'd know that I am also a person who can't afford to pay more than 99 cents for most books. A higher price really puts the squeeze on me. While not everybody here is a writer, EVERYBODY here is a reader, and understands well the problems of being a reader.
> 
> But though I can't afford higher prices, I don't get snarky about the fact that a publisher (and that's what we're talking about here - publishing not writing) has to charge enough to cover costs and make a living. It IS a business, and yes, we need to discuss business matters.
> 
> ...


Very nicely put. This is The Writer's Cafe after all, and if we can't discuss the business aspects of writing and publishing on this board, where can we discuss it?

I can't afford to pay much for books either, but I'm already working overtime at my day job. I would much rather not work overtime and spend that time writing.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

daringnovelist said:


> You're saying that writers have no business talking about the business of publishing. Which is simply another way of saying that writers have no business making a living. If you're going to make a living you HAVE to talk about this stuff.


No I'm not. If you read my post you'll find 90% of the books I buy are above the $2.99 price point your discussing. I discussed quality in my post as a reason I may not buy.



> But you are correct, I don't care if you are offended by the need of writers to make a living.
> 
> Camille


Again, never said it. I said that quality of format matters. Quality of writing matters and that when posting on a public type forum people who may not understand your craft may take your posts in a different light and be put off.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Very nicely put. This is The Writer's Cafe after all, and if we can't discuss the business aspects of writing and publishing on this board, where can we discuss it?


Really Well ok. But then maybe they need to change the blurb on the forum page because it says:


> * "Come in, grab a cup of coffee and chat with our authors. " *


Forgive us readers for taking that to mean what it says


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

LauraB said:


> Stepping in as a reader I'll say I tend to pay between $4-$11 a book. I don't pay much attention to who publishes it. What I do pay attention to is- in this order: 1) the description. If I can't read it and stay interested, which is actually very common, I don't know who writes them, but some are unintelligible, I won't sample it. 2) The sample, if it is formatted badly, the sample is to small to tell if I like the writing, or the writing is just bad I won't buy it. 3) If I won't pay $9.99 for it, I won't pay $2.99, and if I won't pay $2.99 I won't pay .99 cents. Because it is my time that is the most valuable part of what I spend reading.
> My advice is to work on the skills in writing and presentation if you want to make a living at writing. I think writers need return customers and word of mouth. Which means not only do you have to sell the book, but people have to read it.
> And, my only comment on Intinst's post is I get what he is saying. I got the same put off'ish feeling reading the OP. Not that I don't think authors should make money, as I spend plenty every month helping that cause, but, IMO, it wouldn't hurt for authors in these parts of the forums to keep in mind readers do lurk and we don't see ourselves as your wallets. Just sayin...


Thanks Laura for the listing of what you look for. It always helps me to hear what readers are eyeballing (even if I've heard it before; everyone is a little different).

I thought Intinst was a GIRL. Ohboy.  I better start paying more attention to those little ribbon things next to the names...



Maria


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

EllenFisher said:


> I'm reluctant to list it that way, because it varies so wildly. The novel I just put up, _Love Remembered_, is 110,000 words long, which ought to make it somewhere between 300 and 400 pages in a standard mass market paperback. The edition my prior publisher issued in trade paperback, however, was only 251 pages long. The HTML version is only 222 pages long. My first book, which WAS released in mass market, was about 98,000 words and 325 pages-- but larger print could have easily added fifty pages to the length, had the publisher wanted to do that. This is why I tend to refer to my books in word count-- it never varies. Actual page length can vary in a big way.


Ellen, there's a standard way to count for mass market fiction (I don't have the exact formula, but you should be able to google.) When readers ask me for this info, I can provide location total or I count the number of full words on a page in a paperback and then figure out an approximation. It's not going to be an exact science, but I *totally* understand wanting to know if I'm downloading a short story, a novella (which can be anywhere from 20k to 65k) or a full-length novel. I'm one of those who will not pay the same price for a short/novella/novel. My anthologies as collections are under 65k, even though they have three and five smaller novellas in each. My novels I only call novels if they are above 70k (which if I recall correctly is 240 to 270 pages depending...)

FWIW.

Maria

P.S. at 110k words it should be well over 400 pages and closer to 500 for mass market--but in trade it would still be closer to 300 to 400, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is there.


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

LauraB, you are very welcome here, and I for one highly appreciate your contribution to the discussion. Your "reader's perspective" on this topic is very helpful to me as an author. I am saddened that you won't buy a $2.99 ebook, but fully appreciate your reasons why. I can only hope that a reader such as yourself stumbles upon my work and finds it enjoyable at any price, then becomes a voice that spreads word of mouth, as you pointed out, our deserving reward for investing skill in writing and presentation. Your initial post said it very well.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LauraB said:


> No I'm not. If you read my post you'll find 90% of the books I buy are above the $2.99 price point your discussing. I discussed quality in my post as a reason I may not buy.


I'll admit, I was reacting to several of your posts in a row. You obviously have something positive to contribute to this discussion, so why the hostile attitude?

Here are some quotes:

"IMO, it wouldn't hurt for authors in these parts of the forums to keep in mind readers do lurk and we don't see ourselves as your wallets. Just sayin..." and "Really...thanks you for the lesson, who'd a thunk... You writers just carry on..." and "Not that you care."

That right there expresses the attitude that writers shouldn't talk about business matters in this forum. When you combine it with the fact that this is a place for writers, and the subject line is clearly business talk, it is effectively the same as objecting to writers making a living - because you have to talk about it to do it.

As I said, I respect the positive information you contribute, but can you give us a break on the hostility? Nobody here has expressed hostility or disrespect toward readers (we ARE readers). Do we really deserve the attitude?

Camille


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## AnnaM (Jul 15, 2009)

I raised the prices on my books to 2.99 a few weeks ago. My readers were telling me (especially in feedback on the first book in the series) that I was pricing them too low.  Not kidding -- look at the reviews. You'll see comments like "a great read for a way-too-low price", "incredibly low price", "I couldn't believe it was only 99 cents", "a steal at the price", "good novel at an unbeatable price", "worth every penny."

Clearly these readers had a quality expectation (low?) for a 99 cent book, and their comments were saying I'd cleared the bar by a considerable distance. 

Unbelievably, readers are telling me my work (especially the first book) is still a bargain at 2.99. 

When I raised to 2.99 I did slip slightly in the rankings, but did not lose revenue. I'm looking forward to July, when my royalties go to 70% and I'll double my earnings. With this new incentive I'm also working double-time to get my next book out.

Joe is right. Authors should be open to experimenting with price, and they shouldn't sell themselves short.


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## LauraB (Nov 23, 2008)

William, I didn't say I won't buy a book for $2.99. I said 90% of the books I buy are above $4.00. I do buy some for less. But how much they cost isn't the deciding factor for me.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I lowered the price of one book from $2.99 to .99 for a couple of weeks. So far, I've outsold May, but not by enough to justify keeping the price at .99. I always planned to raise it to 2.99 on the 27th and that's still my plan.



Jack Kilborn said:


> >>>it is, I have a lot of novellas, and I plan on keeping them at 99 cents.
> 
> Have you considered bundling four together and pricing that at $2.99? That gives the reader a bargain, but you make a lot more $$$.


I have two novelettes about ready to go and I plan on pricing them at .99 when they are released. I also figured on bundling four of them together in one volume for $2.99 at some point. Good for the reader, good for me. I'll still offer them as singles since I plan on a mix of genres and time periods. Gives the reader more choice.


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

LauraB said:


> William, I didn't say I won't buy a book for $2.99. I said 90% of the books I buy are above $4.00. I do buy some for less. But how much they cost isn't the deciding factor for me.


(BIG SMILE) Then I still have a chance. I like the deciding factors you listed, and consider the opinion of readers, favorable or not.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

LauraB said:


> William, I didn't say I won't buy a book for $2.99. I said 90% of the books I buy are above $4.00. I do buy some for less. But how much they cost isn't the deciding factor for me.


Laura, I appreciate your stopping in to visit and comment. I wish more readers would! As you noted, the board description encourages interaction.

$2.99 really isn't much to pay for a book. I think a Big Mac costs about the same... 

CK


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> Laura, I appreciate your stopping in to visit and comment. I wish more readers would! As you noted, the board description encourages interaction.
> 
> $2.99 really isn't much to pay for a book. I think a Big Mac costs about the same...
> 
> CK


And a book doesn't raise your cholesterol or put on pounds.


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## Kristen Painter (Apr 21, 2010)

Heart Of Fire is at 2.99 and has been since about the 20th. The next book I put out will be at that price point, too. I think it's helped sales since I bumped it from 1.99. Perceived value and all that.

As a reader, I'm very willing to pay 2.99 or more, depending on the book.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> And a book doesn't raise your cholesterol or put on pounds.


It can, however, cause palpitations, fibrillations, high blood pressure, cold sweats ... 

All that excitability for $2.99 sounds like a killer steal.

CK


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

LauraB said:


> Really Well ok. But then maybe they need to change the blurb on the forum page because it says:
> Forgive us readers for taking that to mean what it says


No one says readers can't come in, but nowhere does it say we can't talk about pricing and such either. Or should we censor ourselves here?


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

MaryMcDonald said:


> No one says readers can't come in, but nowhere does it say we can't talk about pricing and such either. Or should we censor ourselves here?


Mary, I'm confused. Maybe I missed a post, but where does it say the writers can't talk about pricing and other issues?


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> In the terms of service, Amazon says if you want the 70% royalty rate, you must agree that you can't sell your book for less than $2.99. If you sign up for 70%, they will pay you 70% of the lowest price it is available on the internet. If Kobo sells it for less, Amazon will match it, and base the rate on their price.


Hmm, good information. Makes me wonder if it wouldn't be better for me to pull my books off Kobo, which hasn't provided keywords or search categories, in order to get Amazon's 70% on the full $2.99. (Got onto Kobo through Smashwords.)


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## JoeMitchell (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm new here, and find this whole discussion very enlightening and also somewhat disturbing.  I wrote a very long novel, I think, compared to some others.  Writing a good story was my main focus, and though I tried to absolutely minimize the length of the book, it's all so intertwined that I ended up with 170,000 words.  I tried to cut it in half, but so much of the ending depends on the beginning I just made the decision to let it be long.  Once the book was done and edited, I did some quick research that led me to the faulty conclusion that most ebooks were priced at $9.99.  After being told that this was too high for a new author, I went ahead and lowered the price to $7.99.  Now I'm starting to think that a huge number of authors sell for $0.99?  Did I make a mistake charging so much for this, my first novel?  I don't want anyone to think I'm overcharging, and I want people to read my book and feel like they got a good value.
I'd like to ask your opinions, if you would be so kind to help a new author who's still in shell-shock from the whole process of self-publishing.  Assuming the novel is at least a good read, and accounting for it's unusually long length (170k words, 452 pages in trade paperback), would $5.99 be more appropriate, or should I consider going all the way down to $2.99 to help build an audience for the sequels?


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Ootwah said:


> I'm new here, and find this whole discussion very enlightening and also somewhat disturbing. I wrote a very long novel, I think, compared to some others. Writing a good story was my main focus, and though I tried to absolutely minimize the length of the book, it's all so intertwined that I ended up with 170,000 words. I tried to cut it in half, but so much of the ending depends on the beginning I just made the decision to let it be long. Once the book was done and edited, I did some quick research that led me to the faulty conclusion that most ebooks were priced at $9.99. After being told that this was too high for a new author, I went ahead and lowered the price to $7.99. Now I'm starting to think that a huge number of authors sell for $0.99? Did I make a mistake charging so much for this, my first novel? I don't want anyone to think I'm overcharging, and I want people to read my book and feel like they got a good value.
> I'd like to ask your opinions, if you would be so kind to help a new author who's still in shell-shock from the whole process of self-publishing. Assuming the novel is at least a good read, and accounting for it's unusually long length (170k words, 452 pages in trade paperback), would $5.99 be more appropriate, or should I consider going all the way down to $2.99 to help build an audience for the sequels?


Speaking as a reader and stating (once again) that it's only my opinion, I think with the length of your book, the 5.99 price point might be best for the first book. Or maybe a lower price until the sequel is finished and then raise the price of the first book and discount the second.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Ootwah said:


> I'm new here, and find this whole discussion very enlightening and also somewhat disturbing. I wrote a very long novel, I think, compared to some others. Writing a good story was my main focus, and though I tried to absolutely minimize the length of the book, it's all so intertwined that I ended up with 170,000 words. I tried to cut it in half, but so much of the ending depends on the beginning I just made the decision to let it be long. Once the book was done and edited, I did some quick research that led me to the faulty conclusion that most ebooks were priced at $9.99. After being told that this was too high for a new author, I went ahead and lowered the price to $7.99. Now I'm starting to think that a huge number of authors sell for $0.99? Did I make a mistake charging so much for this, my first novel? I don't want anyone to think I'm overcharging, and I want people to read my book and feel like they got a good value.
> I'd like to ask your opinions, if you would be so kind to help a new author who's still in shell-shock from the whole process of self-publishing. Assuming the novel is at least a good read, and accounting for it's unusually long length (170k words, 452 pages in trade paperback), would $5.99 be more appropriate, or should I consider going all the way down to $2.99 to help build an audience for the sequels?


I just published my second book about six weeks ago, 161K words. I initially priced it at $2.99, dropped it to .99 as a special promotion for two weeks, and I'll be raising it to $2.99 again tomorrow.

Yes, we put a lot of effort into our writing, and we want to be paid for it, but you don't just start up a business and charge top dollar. You have to establish your reputation for quality and service. You have to advertise and discount and run sales and you have to be prepared to put every penny back into the business until people trust you enough to shop at your store or buy your widgets. Writing, IMHO, is no different.

I find $2.99 to be a good price point for me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I've enjoyed this discussion immensely. Jack, we can always count on you to get a good discussion going.  And, just to be clear, this IS the Writers' Cafe and shop talk is certainly appropriate, and we definitely want the readers to feel free to express their points of view, which I think is very useful to the Authors.

My price point is what I used to pay for paperbacks... It's an interesting discussion. For the June Quasi-Offical Book Game, I'm reading Predictably Irrational







, which is about why people make the decisions they make, and a lot of so far has to do with purchasing decisions. The author talks about anchor prices, which relate to the initial price one is willing to pay for an item. The paperback price is my anchor. For a lot of ebook purchasers, the anchor price is $9.99, the relatively arbitrary price that Amazon picked for NY Times bestsellers, thus the uproar over the recent pricing changes. For others, the anchor is the hardback price, so they're willing to spend much more for an ebook, as it is still less than they used to pay for books.

For many readers of Indie fiction, the .99 price has become an anchor...but as new readers come to the fold, I think $2.99 will be a new anchor and books will sell. This is still a very new market, a lot of dust has to settle...

As I said, Jack, you always start good discussions...I've got several of your books on my TBR list....I think I'm going to start Afraid soon.

Betsy


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Wait a minute - so when Amazon discounts a book, it's because that book is selling for less elsewhere?

It's been a mystery to me why one of my books is now $2.39 - but, after reading Jack's posts, I think it must be because Kobo is selling it at that price.

Not sure I like letting someone else control the price - and, thus, my Amazon royalties.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Ootwah said:


> ...Once the book was done and edited, I did some quick research that led me to the faulty conclusion that most ebooks were priced at $9.99. After being told that this was too high for a new author, I went ahead and lowered the price to $7.99. Now I'm starting to think that a huge number of authors sell for $0.99? Did I make a mistake charging so much for this, my first novel?


Oh, no, you didn't make a mistake - because that's the great thing about ebooks. Nothing is permanent. It isn't like physical books which only have a narrow window of opportunity before they are tossed out of the bookstore.

People who price their books at 99 cents (including myself) are not so much selling their books as promoting them. It's a way to get attention from people who would not even look at your books otherwise, and it's also something that I think is just good customer service - to offer a bargain for those who can't afford more, even if it's temporary or by coupon. If you price higher it may take longer to build up your audience. But anything under 10 dollars is not outrageous - it's just that people only tend to pay that for books they already know they want.

For a saga-sized book, 2.99 might be a "sale price" and 5.99 or 6.99 might be the more permanent price - and even that is a bargain compared to the big commercial books. (I have a long one coming up as well, and it won't split up properly either - I expect I'll put that at 3.99 at first and see how it goes.)

Camille


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> Wait a minute - so when Amazon discounts a book, it's because that book is selling for less elsewhere?
> 
> It's been a mystery to me why one of my books is now $2.39 - but, after reading Jack's posts, I think it must be because Kobo is selling it at that price.
> 
> Not sure I like letting someone else control the price - and, thus, my Amazon royalties.


My guess is that the discounting going on now has nothing to do with the new contract. Three of my books are discounted on Kobo, but only the oldest book has been discounted by Amazon. Amazon did discounting last summer as well--and I don't think anyone had books on Kobo.

Might be best to read the contract in full before making any rash decisions. And of course visibility counts for something...so would a sales report from the various vendors...


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## Bridget S (May 23, 2010)

Since mine is just a collection of three short stories, I'm happy with my 99 cents.  I'm working on four more short stories, with the same main character, but they aren't summer related.  I might put all seven in a collection and change the title, but I'm not sure about $2.99.  Since my sales aren't going through the roof, I don't want a $2.99 price to scare people away.

I'm kind of cheap   I usually go to the public library to get all my books.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> My guess is that the discounting going on now has nothing to do with the new contract. Three of my books are discounted on Kobo, but only the oldest book has been discounted by Amazon. Amazon did discounting last summer as well--and I don't think anyone had books on Kobo.
> 
> Might be best to read the contract in full before making any rash decisions. And of course visibility counts for something...so would a sales report from the various vendors...


Yeah, I definitely have to figure this out before the new terms kick in - and, you're right, it would help to get a sales report.

As far as visibility goes, I don't see how I'm getting any there - I've been in touch with them and told that the only way to have keywords and categores is to include them in the description provided to Smashwords.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

TC Beacham said:


> Not sure I like letting someone else control the price - and, thus, my Amazon royalties.


When a retailer discounts your book they absorb the loss of profit and pay you based upon your suggested retail price.


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## LCEvans (Mar 29, 2009)

$2.99 is a cheap price for the amount of work that goes into writing a full length novel and that's the amount I'm going to charge for my new books. Night Camp is a children's book and will stay at $.99. I won't raise the price of We interrupt This Date until I publish my next book. In addition to being a writer, I'm also an avid reader and I buy a lot of books. Even when I put myself on the reader's side of the fence, I still think $2.99 is cheap. With samples available, I can tell whether I want to spend the money on the book before I buy, so I don't worry about wasting money. Usually I can tell after reading a few pages of a sample whether I'm going to like the writer's style, so I often look for "search inside the book" if the title has a print edition. I check that rather than bothering to download a sample that I may not read right away. When I go with search inside, I buy the Kindle versions of the books I like right away, rather than waiting until after I have time to read a downloaded sample. For novellas or short stories (not collections) I think $.99 is fair.

Linda


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jeff said:


> When a retailer discounts your book they absorb the loss of profit and pay you based upon your suggested retail price.


True so far, but Jack posted this:

"In the terms of service, Amazon says if you want the 70% royalty rate, you must agree that you can't sell your book for less than $2.99. If you sign up for 70%, they will pay you 70% of the lowest price it is available on the internet. If Kobo sells it for less, Amazon will match it, and base the rate on their price."


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> My price point is what I used to pay for paperbacks...


Same here, although I'll only pay that much for fave authors.

We talk about the ebooks, but what about the paperbacks? I used to be unhappy with the price I have to charge for paper books, but I realized that they are trade size and priced appropriately for that size. I think it's still a lot to pay for an unknown author, but I don't have much say in setting the price.



> For many readers of Indie fiction, the .99 price has become an anchor...but as new readers come to the fold, I think $2.99 will be a new anchor and books will sell. This is still a very new market, a lot of dust has to settle...


I agree. $2.99 will become the new $.99 for full-length novels.



> As I said, Jack, you always start good discussions...I've got several of your books on my TBR list....I think I'm going to start Afraid soon.
> 
> Betsy


I think I'd be _*Afraid*_ to read it.  I'm reading some of the Jack Daniels short stories instead.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

TC Beacham said:


> True so far, but Jack posted this:
> 
> "In the terms of service, Amazon says if you want the 70% royalty rate, you must agree that you can't sell your book for less than $2.99. If you sign up for 70%, they will pay you 70% of the lowest price it is available on the internet. If Kobo sells it for less, Amazon will match it, and base the rate on their price."


I think that means that Amazon will match the lower price if you (not another retailer setting a discount) set your retail price on Kobo below the price you sell to Amazon. If what they paid you was predicated on a competitive retailer's price the opportunity for collusion would make it illegal.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I think that means that Amazon will match the lower price if you (not another retailer setting a discount) set your retail price on Kobo below the price you sell to Amazon. If what they paid you was predicated on a competitive retailer's price the opportunity for collusion would make it illegal.


I really hope that's the case!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Same here, although I'll only pay that much for fave authors.


I agree, I won't pay that much for just anyone, just that it's pretty much my top limit except for an occasional purchase--like some of the Book Game books.


> I think I'd be _*Afraid*_ to read it.  I'm reading some of the Jack Daniels short stories instead.


I'm *Afraid* of that, too....only going to read it in the daytime. 

Betsy


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> Wait a minute - so when Amazon discounts a book, it's because that book is selling for less elsewhere?
> 
> It's been a mystery to me why one of my books is now $2.39 - but, after reading Jack's posts, I think it must be because Kobo is selling it at that price.
> 
> Not sure I like letting someone else control the price - and, thus, my Amazon royalties.


Yes.

You do control the price. Just price it higher on Smashwords to match Amazon.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

Ootwah said:


> I'm new here, and find this whole discussion very enlightening and also somewhat disturbing. I wrote a very long novel, I think, compared to some others. Writing a good story was my main focus, and though I tried to absolutely minimize the length of the book, it's all so intertwined that I ended up with 170,000 words. I tried to cut it in half, but so much of the ending depends on the beginning I just made the decision to let it be long.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand my head just spun.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

Bridget S said:


> I'm kind of cheap  I usually go to the public library to get all my books.


Stegman is an Irish name? ;p


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Yes.
> You do control the price. Just price it higher on Smashwords to match Amazon.


Or if Kobo keeps it up and doesn't make up for the lost income in sales - you opt out of the Kobo channel.

Because in the end, no matter what you do to set your price, you could end up the victim of a price war. Kobo drops the price, so Amazon does, so B&N does, which means raising it on Smashwords doesn't do you good for nearly three months, in which time, Amazon keeps the price low to match B&N, which means B&N discounts further when the new price comes through to match Amazon.

Not to be a fearmonger - that sort of problem WILL get sorted out. Our best option is to be reasonably patient and always prepared for a short term mess as the big retailers jockey for position.

Camille


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

One question: so does giving the book in pdf away on your website prevent you from getting the new 70% terms even if Smashwords etc. all have it at 2.99?


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

*Dropping pennies into the bucket*

Here's my take: authors have the right to set their book at any price they wish via the DTP (unless they have that nice little thing called an agency model contract), and readers have the right whether or not to buy your book at said price.

Put it this way: were you all up in arms about the Agency 5 raising prices from $9.99 to $12.99 or higher? (Oh, wait, silly me, don't forget about the sliding scale for MMPB-based Kindle releases) If you were, then you'll probably be against us indie authors who want to make sure they are taking advantage of what _Amazon_ is giving us.

If you don't like it, exercise your opinion with your credit card, your debit card, your gift card; read: however you're paying for books by not buying them at that price, or forward the author a kind note explaining your position. If you don't mind the bump up (oops, I just said that dreaded word), we appreciate your continued support, and we can't wait to bring you another fantastic book.

Prices will get sorted out, whether it be when the market settles itself and the Agency 5 realize Joe's position all along, which is readers like OURSELVES -- notice I put myself, an author, in that -- enjoy LOW-COST eBooks.

(Yes, call me a sheep that grazes in the field o' Konrath.)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

foreverjuly said:


> One question: so does giving the book in pdf away on your website prevent you from getting the new 70% terms even if Smashwords etc. all have it at 2.99?


Good question. I'm sure that will cause a problem. You've priced your book less (in this case, waaay less) than you have it on Amazon.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Yes.
> 
> You do control the price. Just price it higher on Smashwords to match Amazon.


The price I've set at both Smashwords and Amazon is $2.99, but Kobo discounts it once Smashwords sends it there. Will that be a problem as far as Amazon's new terms go?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> The price I've set at both Smashwords and Amazon is $2.99, but Kobo discounts it once Smashwords sends it there. Will that be a problem as far as Amazon's new terms go?


You'll get 70% of the Smashwords price, assuming Amazon discovers it and price matches it.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> One question: so does giving the book in pdf away on your website prevent you from getting the new 70% terms even if Smashwords etc. all have it at 2.99?


Amazon is scanning competitor's sites, looking for price matches. I don't believe they are scanning authors sites.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I think $2.99 is a fair price to pay for an ebook.  I've spent a lot more than that on a DTB when I really wanted to read it.

I am planning on raising my price to $2.99, even though I'm scared to death that no one will want to take a chance on an unknown author at a dollar more than they were trying me out for.  Hopefully it will still look like a good deal.  *Crosses fingers and hopes for the best come July 1st*

Also scared to death that my book won't become 'unavailable for purchase' when I change my price, like what has happened to some indie authors.  Ack... I might go crazy then.

Vicki


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Victorine said:


> Also scared to death that my book won't become 'unavailable for purchase' when I change my price, like what has happened to some indie authors. Ack... I might go crazy then.
> 
> Vicki


I changed my price a couple of weeks ago and it took less than 24 hours to come back up. When we all clog up the system next week, it might take a little longer. I'm raising my price back to $2.99 tomorrow. I'll let you know how long it takes to go live again and if the opt-in button shows up.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Amazon is scanning competitor's sites, looking for price matches. I don't believe they are scanning authors sites.


Thanks for the answer, Jack!


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

Supposedly Apple requires the same price as elsewhere, too (not that the iBookstore is looking like a big factor). Really, does anyone expect Kobo to last the winter? I see Amazon, Google (soon), B&N, and Apple in that order as the places to be. But simply price all your books the same everywhere and be done with it. If not, take them off Smashwords because you will never make up the difference.

I had $1.99 and 99 cent novels--and pretty consistent sales. Since I knew they were going to $2.99, I didn't invest much attention in monitoring, but today I noticed the $1.99 one, though selling less, made about 50 percent more than the faster-selling 99 cent novel. I moved it to $2.99 and just by ranking it is pretty much in the ballpark of what it was. I even had a reader visit my site and buy one directly and gush happily about how nice it was to find a cheap copy ($2.99) when NY is so high. So $2.99 is a bargain for a good book and a rip-off for a bad book (those terms used generically-I wouldn't say mine are good or yours are good--that's for the buyer to decide). Today, reader determines the value and worth, not the author.

After agent cut, I was making about 45 or 50 cents per mass market paperback, so to me selling a 99 cent ebook is almost as good as that. Selling a $2.99 ebook will be four times better than that. And I know for a fact my $5.59 NY ebook is not moving much. So I think this 70-percent royalty is the most incredible offer to writers in the history of publishing.

And yet many indies will still be heading downward to $1.99 and 99 in a few months, when they don't get many sales. And it may be they are bad writers. Maybe the audience is very small. Maybe it's just a bad cover, bad luck. Maybe you never market (though if you're on KB, this probably isn't you). Maybe it's not about anything but that you're not selling much. 

I will leave my collections at 99 cents--what's been surprising to me is that my collections have been selling almost as well as my novels, and in some cases better, and it has to be price--because my paper collections are slooow sellers. So I think the short form has been helped by Kindle but I also cram lots of stories in them, between 14 and 20 per collection. In fact, I think at low prices Kindle shoppers are just as likely to snap up all your books at once instead of try one-buy one. I've even marketed as "Buy them all for the price of one paperback."

But here's why I think you should set at $2.99 and take the money now . . . this will not last. NY will be coming down, and some of it will be coming down like a bucket of bricks. Leisure is already putting their name authors like Keene and Laymon at $2.99 in ebook, and soon you will be competing with the majority of the midlist. (That's why I foresee many indies going back to 99 cents later this year). And the upper levels will all come down, too. There's no way it can't. And publishers will start dumping out their lower-level backlist at bargain prices, writers they don't give a crap about (and, yes, there are SOME lol, called "most of them"), and flood all those dead, out of print books when NY decides to really make some e-money. Sadly, those writers will get nickels per sale.

Now, I am not just preaching doom and gloom because you have a window here. NY hasn't even begun to compete with you yet. But it gets worse. Look how fast it took Amazon to reach 5 million paper titles. In two years, there will be 10 million ebooks for sale.  I am not sure anyone will pay anything for a standard, text-only ebook in 10 years. That's when you will have to get even more creative. This is the Golden Era. Get you some gold, or copper, or whatever. Pay attention and prepare for the next era, because there are going to be a lot of them. And I am ecstatic about it all. I hope you are, too.

Scott


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

I'll be taking them off Smashwords as soon as PubIt! goes live.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

I am a little worried that I'm in the Golden Era, and that in a few years it will pass my by and my books will be dead in the water. At the same time, having a bunch of out of print books dumped into the pool doesn't necessarily spell doom and gloom. If they're out of print, small-time, and not marketed, that puts them a little bit closer to me in terms of competition. It'll make things harder, though, that's for sure.

You know what the counter to that is? Massive growth in the e-book market. Who cares if you double the books people can buy if you quadruple the number of buyers. I've tossed my lot into this e-book thing and with fingers crossed am hoping I can ride the initial waves to something successful.

David Dalglish


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## William Campbell (Feb 11, 2010)

scottnicholson said:


> If not, take them off Smashwords because you will never make up the difference.


I'd recommend that authors leave their books on Smashwords. Just opt-out of the other retail chains if pricing is a problem, or up the price at Smashwords to compensate for it.

The reason I suggest this is that I have seen more than one reader comment that the Amazon sample is too short. I agree and Amazon is not offering us any way to adjust the sample size. Many potential buyers surf over to Smashwords to absorb the more generous sample, which is author-adjustable, the suggested default being 50% of the work. Then the reader buys it (or not) via their Kindle.

Authors exist to serve the reader. Don't take away a convenience that some have voiced approval for, even if only a few. Think hard before dumping Smashwords. Also consider, Smashwords is international without additional fees. That has value that Amazon has yet to give--you guessed it--to the reader.

Me, I'll price the same across the board and let the retailers duke it out. Great, a sale, some competition. Good for the reader. So the royalty is reduced a fraction, so what? It's still above traditionally published royalties for paper copies (depending on your ebook pricing of course, but in my case even 50% is better; 70% is awesome). Let us not whine about pennies of royalty revenue.

Do what is good for the reader first, then what is good for the author.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

William Campbell said:


> I'd recommend that authors leave their books on Smashwords. Just opt-out of the other retail chains if pricing is a problem, or up the price at Smashwords to compensate for it.
> The reason I suggest this is that I have seen more than one reader comment that the Amazon sample is too short.


Not only that, but Smashwords is the easiest way to offer free or discounted copies to reviewers and others.

The big thing right now is just to realize that this is going to be complicated no matter what you do. Smashwords isn't to blame for those complications -- they're actually making it easier. We were able to shoot from the hip for a while, but now it looks like we will have to plan and strategize a little more, which is actually a good thing.

But the first thing is, once we've all scared ourselves with all the things that might happen, we need to wait and see what WILL happen.

Camille


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Question for all of you Kindle authors who have fiddled with your price:

Does your book *always* become unavailable for purchase for a while when you change your price?  

If so, how long is it usually unavailable?

Does this make it hard to get your sales back up to where they used to be?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Vicki


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I've only changed the price once (on two books) and it didn't APPEAR to become unavailable - but I had no way of testing it, since I had already bought my own copies for testing earlier.  Amazon, of course, puts up that message that it's unavailable whenever you make ANY change, even though the old version is completely available.  (I've changed covers a couple times and the DTP said they were unavailable, but the old version was available.)

Camille


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Victorine said:


> Question for all of you Kindle authors who have fiddled with your price:
> 
> Does your book *always* become unavailable for purchase for a while when you change your price?
> 
> ...


1. Always. It doesn't have to be just the price; it can be anything at all.

2. Days, always. Weeks, the last time.

3. It makes it next to impossible, actually.

I've just submitted a new version of _The Ryel Saga_ and am living in resigned dread until it goes live. Feh.

CK


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Having been watching this forum all day, even though I am brand new I have decided to raise all my prices to $2.99. I know it is very risky because I am unknown, but I just want to get this done and over with so that I can think about promoting and the next book. My book 'Cries in the Dark' is still free on Smashwords, but I will probably change that tomorrow. If you want to look for it on Smashwords-the only way I could find it was to go: free e-books and then longest over 25,000, it is over 87,000 words. I may do the coupon thing on Smashwords if that is still allowed. I am thinking I will probably opt out of B&N and KObe for now because of the time they take to change prices.

I hope I have made the right decision, but I think my book is worth $2.99 even if no one else does. I thank everyone who has or will participate in this forum;
the different opinions have helped me to make a decision.

Ann


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

I just pulled the trigger. Let's see what happens.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

You know it's not as bad as having cancer or something, and that's the way I've been treating it. So silly I know. I can just readjust my prices if I don't sell anything. The world is still going round on its axis. Now I'm feeling better about it. The glass of wine helps too!

Ann


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

I've reuploaded new files, images, descriptions, etc for my first book about...15 times (no joke). I've never found it to be unavailable for purchase, especially for weeks at a time. I've gotten sales for it within minutes of hitting the publish button, and for entire days afterward. And my sales have remained steady throughout.

David Dalglish


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## traceya (Apr 26, 2010)

Hi all,
I've read through this thread with great interest and my husband [thankfully not an author] made an excellent point - Mercedes don't discount their cars to ridiculous levels, they expect you to pay their prices because they are offering a top quality product.

The world markets have been absolutely flooded with cheap versions of goods, largely Chinese made, that devalue the market as a whole - perhaps by offering ebooks at $0.99 and other similar prices we are doing the same thing. If I go to a bookstore to buy a paperback novel [this is in Australia of course] I can expect to pay upwards of $10. It is very, very rare to get a NEW book for less than that and those that are priced lower are often jumbled together in a junk bin of 'buy 3 for the price of 1' and, as a reader, I tend to ignore them because I think they're unsellable junk.

I also wonder if Amazon have not come up with the new pricing structure for the sole reason of making $2.99 the new lowest price - they have an excellent reputation as an online book seller and probably don't want their entire range devalued by huge amounts of $0.99 titles.

I've so far priced Erich's Plea at $1.99 and my short stories at $0.99. I think the shorts are fairly priced but realistically I think Erich's Plea is underpriced. It's a good novel that I put a lot of hard work into - once I release the sequel, Ursula's Quest I will be moving my prices to a higher level. I now have grave doubts as to whether I should EVER have offered it that low - perceived value and quality of work.

Getting back to the main point though, we as authors must remember that our work is of high quality and we should not sell ourselves, our work, our readers or the industry as a whole short by continually driving the market price down. Think about it in relative terms - $1 is ridiculous you pay more than that for a can of Coke or a cup of coffee - why shouldn't a book - whether it's electronically delivered or otherwise - be priced at significantly more than what you'd pay for a cup of coffee?

Do we really want this industry to lose credibility by titles that are priced ridiculously low?

You get what you pay for - and most readers I believe would NOT consider $2.99 as a minimum to be too much to pay for a book - whether it's electronic or otherwise it's still a book!

I truly believe that if we value our work then we should stop selling ourselves as if we are a $2 junk shop trying to shift low-quality, low-grade product. I personally think my work is of a higher quality than $0.99, it's worth more than a can of Coke.

Cheers,
Trace


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## karencantwell (Jun 17, 2010)

Question because I'm very new to this:  I see a lot of people saying they are getting better sales because it's priced at .99 cents.  Because people are willing to take a chance.  Are Kindle readers SEARCHING based on price?  Is there a specific way random Kindle readers are finding your books specifically because of the price?  Then they see the cover, like the title and description and buy?  Is that the only way they found your book in the first place - by price?

I put my book up 10 days ago at the $2.99 price (liked the 70 percent royalty) and I felt $2.99 was still a steal for those used to buying books for $15.00 - $25.00.  I promoted immediately on my website, blog, etc.  I'm assuming most of my sales are coming directly from my promotion, so would the .99 cents matter?

I ask, because I have toyed with the idea or lowering it for a while just to see if my sales would go up.  Would love advice/info from the experienced crowd here!  

BTW, I'm still inclined to stay at $2.99 for many reasons.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Writers have to eat, too.


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## kayakruthie (Jan 28, 2010)

I raised the price on "Primal Wound" from .99 to $2.99 yesterday, and my ranking plummeted 1,200 points.  Of course, it's not about ranking, but selling books to people who want to read them.  Until there are established ebook venues for promotion and critical review (that provide as much exposure as the established promotional venues for DTBs), the 99 cent price point may still be the best promotional tool.  

We'll see how it goes.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

My two .99 cent books are not my bestsellers. My $2.99 book is my bestseller, without a doubt.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

John Fitch V said:


> My two .99 cent books are not my bestsellers. My $2.99 book is my bestseller, without a doubt.


Of course, that may have nothing whatsoever to do with price...


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

Some people may not enjoy fantasy, or I'm marketing them wrong. Who knows?


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

scottnicholson said:


> Supposedly Apple requires the same price as elsewhere, too (not that the iBookstore is looking like a big factor). Really, does anyone expect Kobo to last the winter? I see Amazon, Google (soon), B&N, and Apple in that order as the places to be. But simply price all your books the same everywhere and be done with it. If not, take them off Smashwords because you will never make up the difference.
> 
> I had $1.99 and 99 cent novels--and pretty consistent sales. Since I knew they were going to $2.99, I didn't invest much attention in monitoring, but today I noticed the $1.99 one, though selling less, made about 50 percent more than the faster-selling 99 cent novel. I moved it to $2.99 and just by ranking it is pretty much in the ballpark of what it was. I even had a reader visit my site and buy one directly and gush happily about how nice it was to find a cheap copy ($2.99) when NY is so high. So $2.99 is a bargain for a good book and a rip-off for a bad book (those terms used generically-I wouldn't say mine are good or yours are good--that's for the buyer to decide). Today, reader determines the value and worth, not the author.
> 
> ...


Scott, Kobo has been around quite a while. They are a Canadian distributor for stores in Canada--they got into the e-book thing as side a while back. I'm guessing that with a foot in the traditional world, they'll be around.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

William Campbell said:


> I'd recommend that authors leave their books on Smashwords. Just opt-out of the other retail chains if pricing is a problem, or up the price at Smashwords to compensate for it.
> 
> The reason I suggest this is that I have seen more than one reader comment that the Amazon sample is too short. I agree and Amazon is not offering us any way to adjust the sample size. Many potential buyers surf over to Smashwords to absorb the more generous sample, which is author-adjustable, the suggested default being 50% of the work. Then the reader buys it (or not) via their Kindle.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Smashwords serves a market that Amazon can't touch--Sony devices, off-brand ereaders, and I even have a few fans who read on the screen. At least one reviewer wanted PDF. Smashwords is small now as far as sales, but Mark and others there have a real can-do attitude. They are TRYING and working their butts off--this is not something to be taken lightly. You have someone working that hard, there will be some success. I tip my hat to those guys. It's not perfect and I get as mad as anyone at the delays and some of the format challenges, but I have the upmost respect for the hours put in, the networking they do--and the living the dream. That kind of energy is gold.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Victorine said:


> Question for all of you Kindle authors who have fiddled with your price:
> 
> Does your book *always* become unavailable for purchase for a while when you change your price?
> 
> ...


Vicki the NEW price is unavailable--the old stuff is still there for sale. I've had sales continue as always whether I updated a cover, a new version or a price.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> Vicki the NEW price is unavailable--the old stuff is still there for sale. I've had sales continue as always whether I updated a cover, a new version or a price.


Ditto.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

karencantwell said:


> Question because I'm very new to this: I see a lot of people saying they are getting better sales because it's priced at .99 cents. ...
> 
> I ask, because I have toyed with the idea or lowering it for a while just to see if my sales would go up. Would love advice/info from the experienced crowd here!


What I've noticed is that there are lots of places to promote 99 cent books specifically - and some of these are very well followed and successful. So in a word, yes, there are people looking for books at that price. However, there comes a time when you've saturated that market. (And I suspect that if you don't specifically promote in those areas, the price doesn't do you much good.)

Camille


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

Last night I upped the price of one of my books to $2.99.  This morning it looks like I've sold at least two at the new price, and my sales ranking is better than it was last night--even though, according to DTP, the book is still in the publishing process rather than live.  Go figure. Needless to say, I'm very surprised and pleased.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> You'll get 70% of the Smashwords price, assuming Amazon discovers it and price matches it.


Thanks! As long as Amazon isn't going by the Kobo discount price, guess I won't opt out of distribution at Kobo.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Staying pat for ethical reasons. My already pricey (oooo) 3.99 books, will receive some benefits, but I can't see raising the $ .99 ones and taking advantage of my readers or potential readers. I'm not a traditional publisher, and I'll not abandon the reader for mammon.

Edward C. Patterson
Sorry, I have this thing about readers being more valuable that shekels. I'm an Amazon partner, but I won't shill


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Sorry, I have this thing about readers being more valuable that shekels. I'm an Amazon partner, but I won't shill


So shouldn't all your books be 99 cents, then?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> Thanks! As long as Amazon isn't going by the Kobo discount price, guess I won't opt out of distribution at Kobo.


Amazon IS going by the Kobo discount price, and Kobo is via Smashwords.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Amazon IS going by the Kobo discount price, and Kobo is via Smashwords.


I'm getting confused.

A couple of pages back I posted to you:

"The price I've set at both Smashwords and Amazon is $2.99, but Kobo discounts it once Smashwords sends it there. Will that be a problem as far as Amazon's new terms go?"

And you posted:

"You'll get 70% of the Smashwords price, assuming Amazon discovers it and price matches it."

So, will Amazon use the price I set at Smashwords when the new terms kick in, or the discount price Kobo has chosen on its own?


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

I was equating Smashwords with Kobo, which is incorrect.

If you publish on Kobo, through Smashwords, and Kobo discounts it, that's the price Amazon will base their 70% on.

Bottom line: if your ebook is available anywhere for less than the Amazon price, Amazon will use that price as the discount, and will give you 70% royalties on that price.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> I'm getting confused.
> 
> A couple of pages back I posted to you:
> 
> ...


TC, so far as I know Joe is the ONLY one who has seen the new contract (and actually signed it). What he is telling us is that if Amazon sees a lower price, they are going to match it and you will be paid on that lower price. The old contract specifically states that if you LIST at other locations and a vendor choose to discount it--IF Amazon matches the discount, you will be paid on the LIST price.

Now, until you have the contract in hand, you'll be paid on List. Joe is reading from a new contract (he's in the Beta program.) I think the best thing to do is wait until you click on the contract on Amazon . Read it there and see whether they will pay based on list or on retail discounts.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So shouldn't all your books be 99 cents, then?


Amazon doesn't permit books of a certain file length to be $ .99 as per contract.  But that being said, the issue is not the price, its RAISING the price on the backs of readers. If you want to price a book initially at $2.99 that's one thing. But if you have priced it at $ .99, and not stated it's a promotion, there is no marketing reason to raise the price and expect to keep the good will of your customer. Of course, when I was an evil Marketing Director, I did such things, _mea culpa_, but now is my chance to stand up for something. Pricing is not the issue. Raising the price for no cost reasons is the issue.

I know I stand alone in this, and it's alright. But everyone captains their own ship, and when mine sinks, y'all can raise a glass on the yachts as they sail off into the sunset.

Edward C. Patterson


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

The other $2.99 thread has shown me a lot of authors are concerned about the upcoming royalty change.

I was too, for a while. But I've managed to zen it down.

On July 1, if you have books priced between $2.99 and $9.99, DTP will give you the option to take the new 70% royalty rate. Once you choose that option, it will take a few days for the rate to kick in, but your ebooks will be live that entire time.

However, if your ebooks are available anywhere else on the internet for less than your listed Amazon price, Amazon will match that price, and only pay you 70% of that price.

For example, if you have a $2.99 price list for Amazon, and a $2.59 price on Kobo, and Amazon finds out, they will change your price to $2.59, and that's the price you'll get the 70% royalty on.

Smashwords, which I love, uploads my books to Kobo, B&N, and iPad. But those companies take their jolly time uploading these books, and changing prices.

I switched all of my Smashwords titles to $2.99 a month ago. But B&N and Kobo are still selling them for less. As such, Amazon is selling several of my titles at the same price. As such, I'm making 70% on $1.59, not $2.99.

My first response was to panic. 

My new response it to just let it slide.

Eventually, it will all work out. If I'm earning a bit less on some titles until the transition fully goes through, it'll be okay. And 70% on $1.59 is more money than 35% on $1.99, so I'll still be earning more while things get sorted out.

As Douglas Adams said: Don't Panic!

This is all good. Being fearful, angry, or depressed isn't going to help the situation. And, in reality, the situation doesn't actually need help. It just needs time to sort itself out.

Relax. That's what I'm doing.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> TC, so far as I know Joe is the ONLY one who has seen the new contract (and actually signed it). What he is telling us is that if Amazon sees a lower price, they are going to match it and you will be paid on that lower price. The old contract specifically states that if you LIST at other locations and a vendor choose to discount it--IF Amazon matches the discount, you will be paid on the LIST price.
> 
> Now, until you have the contract in hand, you'll be paid on List. Joe is reading from a new contract (he's in the Beta program.) I think the best thing to do is wait until you click on the contract on Amazon . Read it there and see whether they will pay based on list or on retail discounts.


Thanks Maria!  Then for me it doesn't makes sense to have it on Kobo. I'd have to raise the price at Smashwords enough so that Kobo's price remains $2.99, and that isn't fair to Smashwords customers.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I was equating Smashwords with Kobo, which is incorrect.
> 
> If you publish on Kobo, through Smashwords, and Kobo discounts it, that's the price Amazon will base their 70% on.
> 
> Bottom line: if your ebook is available anywhere for less than the Amazon price, Amazon will use that price as the discount, and will give you 70% royalties on that price.


Thanks Jack!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)




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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Amazon doesn't permit books of a certain file length to be $ .99 as per contract.  But that being said, the issue is not the price, its RAISING the price on the backs of readers. If you want to price a book initially at $2.99 that's one thing. But if you have priced it at $ .99, and not stated it's a promotion, there is no marketing reason to raise the price and expect to keep the good will of your customer. Of course, when I was an evil Marketing Director, I did such things, _mea culpa_, but now is my chance to stand up for something. Pricing is not the issue. Raising the price for no cost reasons is the issue.
> 
> I know I stand alone in this, and it's alright. But everyone captains their own ship, and when mine sinks, y'all can raise a glass on the yachts as they sail off into the sunset.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


It seems like you're really trying to do the right thing by your readers, but what about yourself as a writer? Writers deserve to make at least a royalty of $2.09 per full-length novel. And, when compared with the prices of traditionally published ebooks, even $2.99 is a steal!


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Amazon doesn't permit books of a certain file length to be $ .99 as per contract.  But that being said, the issue is not the price, its RAISING the price on the backs of readers. If you want to price a book initially at $2.99 that's one thing. But if you have priced it at $ .99, and not stated it's a promotion, there is no marketing reason to raise the price and expect to keep the good will of your customer. Of course, when I was an evil Marketing Director, I did such things, _mea culpa_, but now is my chance to stand up for something. Pricing is not the issue. Raising the price for no cost reasons is the issue.
> 
> I know I stand alone in this, and it's alright. But everyone captains their own ship, and when mine sinks, y'all can raise a glass on the yachts as they sail off into the sunset.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


No one is hoping you sink, Edward. We all like you and are rooting for you.

But you don't think it's a tad hypocritical to say that it's wrong for me to raise my prices to $2.99, which is still less than some of your prices? Or a tad disingenuous to speak about not screwing the reader on pricing, yet still charging more than the lowest price you can?

I can see how your marketing director background can make you think differently on this topic, but you're sort of painting the rest of us as unethical, which I don't believe is true. There's a throwing stones/glass houses thing that needs to be addressed first.

If all of your books were the same low price, you'd have a solid foundation to stand on, and your opinions would carry more ethical weight.

No offense meant at all. I just don't dig someone insinuating I'm a price gouger, yet selling his ebooks for more than mine are.

Unless I'm off base here...


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Just raised the price on Catherine and the Captain back up to $2.99 from $.99. It's still available at the $.99 cent price.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> No one is hoping you sink, Edward. We all like you and are rooting for you.
> 
> But you don't think it's a tad hypocritical to say that it's wrong for me to raise my prices to $2.99, which is still less than some of your prices? Or a tad disingenuous to speak about not screwing the reader on pricing, yet still charging more than the lowest price you can?
> 
> ...


Guess I struck home. Over and out.

ECP


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

$2.99 at Smashwords still comes out to less at Kobo - so wouldn't we have to raise the price at Smashwords above that to compensate for the discount at Kobo (if we wanted to make 70% on $2.99)? I'm thinking that wouldn't be fair to my Smashwords customers, but the Kobo discount isn't fair to me. I'll have to think about it.

On edit: I wonder if we could request that Kobo not discount our books.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Another quick point--my early Jack Daniels novels are in multiple paperback printings, and with the latest printing, their cover prices went up $1. I had no say in this--it was a corporate decision. But it didn't bother me. Things go up in price. 

If I'd been told, when I first started on DTP, that one day there would be a 70% royalty for $2.99 ebooks, I would have priced them there at the very beginning. I don't believe raising my prices because the Amazon rates have changed is screwing over my readers.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Guess I struck home. Over and out.
> 
> ECP


Thank you, Ed.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

I had _The Ryel Saga_ at 99 cents from the time it came out (the end of January) until this month. The book sold extremely well, and I was delighted to have acquired so many readers.

Why did I up the price to $2.99? Because I considered that it's a big book (500 pages if it were paper), and a good book (I didn't come up with that opinion myself--it took a lot of reviews during its duology days to convince me). From hanging around other boards I've realized that most readers think $2.99 is a bargain price for a novel whether it's indie or trad published, and are glad to support new authors of merit. I like to think I'm one of them. 

CK


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Just raised the price on Catherine and the Captain back up to $2.99 from $.99. It's still available at the $.99 cent price.


Heehee...and I snagged it at 99 cents 10 minutes ago before the price change went into effect.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> I had _The Ryel Saga_ at 99 cents from the time it came out (the end of January) until this month. The book sold extremely well, and I was delighted to have acquired so many readers.
> 
> Why did I up the price to $2.99? Because I considered that it's a big book (500 pages if it were paper), and a good book (I didn't come up with that opinion myself--it took a lot of reviews during its duology days to convince me). From hanging around other boards I've realized that most readers think $2.99 is a bargain price for a novel whether it's indie or trad published, and are glad to support new authors of merit. I like to think I'm one of them.
> 
> CK


I would buy Carolyn's books at $9.99, but I did get them $ .99. They are towers of craft and masterly written.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

intinst said:


> Thank you, Ed.


Your welcome, Intinst

Edward C. Patterson


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Hi, Jack--

not sure why this is a new thread and not part of the $2.99 discussion?  I'm inclined to merge it at this point...but I'll give you a chance to convince me...

Betsy


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Steph H said:


> Heehee...and I snagged it at 99 cents 10 minutes ago before the price change went into effect.


Good for you, Steph.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Bottom line: if your ebook is available anywhere for less than the Amazon price, Amazon will use that price as the discount, and will give you 70% royalties on that price.


I don't think that's correct. The author/publisher sets the suggested retail price and has no control over the actual retail price set by a merchant. I'm almost certain that Amazon is obligated to pay the author/publisher based upon the lowest suggested retail price. Otherwise, if Barnes & Noble, Borders, Kobo, or any other retailer, was to decide to give your book away, Amazon would do the same and you would receive nothing. That's a license to steal.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I don't think that's correct. The author/publisher sets the suggested retail price and has no control over the actual retail price set by a merchant. I'm almost certain that Amazon is obligated to pay the author/publisher based upon the lowest suggested retail price. Otherwise, if Barnes & Noble, Borders, Kobo, or any other retailer, was to decide to give your book away, Amazon would do the same and you would receive nothing. That's a license to steal.


Sounds logical to me. Anyway, we'll know for sure in a few days.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Betsy,

It probably deserves its own thread because there are a lot of writers confused about it.  Joe has a contract in hand that MAY or MAY NOT match the announcement contract that was put out in Jan.  So he is the only one with an actual version of how things will work.  None of us have access to that contract and the current one apparently differs SIGNIFICANTLY in List price versus discounted pricing.  

This is causing some people to discuss how to price on various sites not WHETHER to raise prices.

Maria


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

While the actual subject of the threads are quite different, the other thread has spent an awful lot of time discussing the 70% royalty issue..and I haven't seen anything here that wasn't covered there...just sayin'....I'm still thinking about it.  

Betsy


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

"You will adjust the List Price as required to ensure that, at all times that the Digital Book is available for sale through the Program, the List Price does not exceed the lowest of: (a) the lowest suggested retail price or equivalent price for any digital or physical edition of the Digital Book; (b) the lowest price at which you list or offer any digital or physical edition of the Digital Book on any website or other sales channel; and (c) any maximum List Price we provide from time to time in the Program Policies..."


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

I think it will be wonderful to get a 70 percent royalty.  I understand that Amazon is doing this to lure more successful authors into the fold.  But it seems like a great boon to relatively new indies like me.  I hope that readers will come to view $2.99 as a great deal/bargain price for full length novels by serious, professional, living authors.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think the $2.99 price and the 70% royalty issue are so intertwined, at least in the discussions here, that I am going to merge these two threads.  I'll leave the 70% subject as the current subject.  Jack, if you want to change it, you can go to the very first post in the thread and change it there or let me know and I'll change it for you.

Thanks everyone for your understanding and for the interesting discussion.

Betsy


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I would buy Carolyn's books at $9.99, but I did get them $ .99. They are towers of craft and masterly written.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


/blush

Ed, thank you! How kind of you to say that.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jeff said:


> "You will adjust the List Price as required to ensure that, at all times that the Digital Book is available for sale through the Program, the List Price does not exceed the lowest of: (a) the lowest suggested retail price or equivalent price for any digital or physical edition of the Digital Book; (b) the lowest price at which you list or offer any digital or physical edition of the Digital Book on any website or other sales channel; and (c) any maximum List Price we provide from time to time in the Program Policies..."


It's those words "or offer" that seem to include the discounted price at Kobo. Wonder if we can request that Kobo not discount our books.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> It's those words "or offer" that seem to include the discounted price at Kobo. Wonder if we can request that Kobo not discount our books.


I believe Mark is in discussion with them. But again, I wouldn't worry too much. It will all sort itself out.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I believe Mark is in discussion with them. But again, I wouldn't worry too much. It will all sort itself out.


No worries - just gathering info. Mark is in discussion with Kobo about the discounts? (I was just about to email him.)


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Y'know...I just checked Kobo. I'm not in there.

I am in Diesel eBooks, though. For $2.49.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

David McAfee said:


> Y'know...I just checked Kobo. I'm not in there.
> 
> I am in Diesel eBooks, though. For $2.49.


Through Smashwords?


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

TC Beacham said:


> Through Smashwords?


Gotta be. I never signed up with Diesel.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

David McAfee said:


> Gotta be. I never signed up with Diesel.


Wow, I've never even heard of Diesel - guess I'd better check them out.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

TC Beacham said:


> It's those words "or offer" that seem to include the discounted price at Kobo. Wonder if we can request that Kobo not discount our books.


The key word is "YOU": "...the lowest price at which *you* list or offer..."

If you list your books to all merchants (and on your own web sites) at the same price, you'll be fine. The price that retailers ultimately set for your books is not in your control. You cannot legally be held accountable for the action of others.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> The key word is "YOU": "...the lowest price at which *you* list or offer..."
> 
> If you list your books to all merchants (and on your own web sites) at the same price, you'll be fine. The price that retailers ultimately set for your books is not in your control. You cannot legally be held accountable for the action of others.


If you agree to the terms of service for Smashwords, I'm sure it says that some of the places it uploads books to have the right to discount your books.

So if Kobo discounts you, you in fact agreed to it, and can be held accountable by Amazon, which has the right to price match. It's not as if Kobo is selling your books without your permission.


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## Vyrl (Jun 7, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So what's a fair price for ebooks? Again, I ask out of genuine curiosity.


The audience decides the fair price with ebooks, even moreso than with paper books. For example, we have the 9.99 price rebellion. And clearly, since there's no printing involved, only electrons, then the value of the book is fiat -- meaning based on demand and perception only.

In short, the market will always seek the highest value for the lowest price and that's what's a little scary to some people.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So if Kobo discounts you, you in fact agreed to it, and can be held accountable by Amazon, which has the right to price match.


If you're right, no one should agree to the contract unless they plan to offer their books exclusively to Amazon. Otherwise, Amazon could engage in a price war that cost them nothing.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> If you're right, no one should agree to the contract unless they plan to offer their books exclusively to Amazon. Otherwise, Amazon could engage in a price war that cost them nothing.


I believe it's fair for Amazon to ask you don't sell for less elsewhere, and fair for them to match that price if you do.

Amazon only discounts if you signed with another company who discounts.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> On July 1, if you have books priced between $2.99 and $9.99, DTP will give you the option to take the new 70% royalty rate. Once you choose that option, it will take a few days for the rate to kick in, but your ebooks will be live that entire time.


Thank you! That's exactly what I wanted to know.

Vicki


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Another good reason for me to avoid Smashwords.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jeff said:


> If you're right, no one should agree to the contract unless they plan to offer their books exclusively to Amazon. Otherwise, Amazon could engage in a price war that cost them nothing.


Or if they go their Smashwords dashboards and opt-out of distribution channels that discount. I must not have read the fine print because I didn't realize Kobo discounted.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Amazon doesn't permit books of a certain file length to be $ .99 as per contract.  But that being said, the issue is not the price, its RAISING the price on the backs of readers. If you want to price a book initially at $2.99 that's one thing. But if you have priced it at $ .99, and not stated it's a promotion, there is no marketing reason to raise the price and expect to keep the good will of your customer. Of course, when I was an evil Marketing Director, I did such things, _mea culpa_, but now is my chance to stand up for something. Pricing is not the issue. Raising the price for no cost reasons is the issue.
> 
> I know I stand alone in this, and it's alright. But everyone captains their own ship, and when mine sinks, y'all can raise a glass on the yachts as they sail off into the sunset.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


I respect your position of course - and I do see where you are coming from marketingwise - but I do think you're mistaking one business model for another.

Unique items like books have a whole different business model. Because the customer only buys each book once, you aren't actually raising the price on your customers. People who have bought that book aren't coming back every week to buy the same book. People who haven't bought it haven't looked at the price. Unless you've done something to establish an expectation before they buy - for instance all your books are always priced the same way or you've heavily advertised it - then you are not actually meeting or betraying customer expectations.

Like I said I respect your stand and don't want to discourage you from doing it. I just want to point out that unless you actually advertise what you're doing, your customers are not going to know if you raised your prices or not - they're just going to notice that there are some bargains in the bunch. And I think they'll appreciate that.

Camille


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

My tendencies are to see corporations as the Evil Empire, but everything I understand about Amazon's practices makes me think their policies are all about supporting the authors.

1) If we price our books at 2.99 -- not .99 -- we get an amazingly better royalty. I'm going to be putting up a novella soon, and I'm going to list it at 2.99. Because of the higher rate, I'm able to work with a paid editor. As an experiment, the editor is going to get a percentage of sales.

My thought is that a great read, well-written and well-edited - even at novella length - is still worth 2.99 to the reader, and that the 2.99 price point will support the production of a better book than the .99 price point will.

I may sell fewer books at first. But of it is a good read, over time I will sell more.

So it's good for the author, the reader, and ultimately Amazon.

2) Amazon will discount our prices and our royalty payments if some other retailer discounts our books.  The solution is to not allow those retailers access to our books.  Of course, that's good for Amazon because their "shelves" will have more titles available.  But it's good for the authors because it keeps us out of price wars. And we can always keep our books on Smashwords where readers can chose among file types and we can control our prices.

Someone said on one of the threads, in effect, grab this great deal for authors now because soon it will go away.  Too-good-to-be-true kind of thinking.

I think that's false logic.  Amazon has discovered how to side-step the middle man. They've created the closest thing so far to a straight line from author to reader:

author -->Amazon -->reader
reader -->Amazon -->author

Why mess with such elegance? It is in Amazon's best interest to make sure authors get a nice slice of this pie.  I mean, who is baking the pie, after all?


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Raised the price to 2.99 and woke up without any extra sales for the first time in a long time.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

foreverjuly said:


> Raised the price to 2.99 and woke up without any extra sales for the first time in a long time.


When I lowered my price to $.99, I didn't wake up to any extra sales either.  Yes, I've sold a few more books, but not enough to justify pricing at $.99.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

TC Beacham said:


> Or if they go their Smashwords dashboards and opt-out of distribution channels that discount. I must not have read the fine print because I didn't realize Kobo discounted.


As does Barnes & Noble, Apple, Sony, Google and Amazon.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> When I lowered my price to $.99, I didn't wake up to any extra sales either.  Yes, I've sold a few more books, but not enough to justify pricing at $.99.


Looks like it's just impossible for any of us to win. When can we schedule our pity party for?


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

If we decide to opt-out of one of the distribution channels at Smashwords, anyone know how long it takes to remove the book? (Hopefully not as long as changes take.)


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> As does Barnes & Noble, Apple, Sony, Google and Amazon.


So perhaps the magic price point is $3.49, which will allow for discounting?

That makes more sense than avoiding other retailers. I don't believe anyone has gotten Smashwords numbers yet, but I don't plan on opting out on anything until I know what kind of money I'm earning. There's gotta be some magic formula.

Fer example, if I price at $2.99, Kobo discounts to $2.59, so Amazon discounts to $2.59, but the Kobo sales make up for the 24 cents difference, then it makes sense to keep the price as-is, doesn't it?


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So perhaps the magic price point is $3.49, which will allow for discounting?
> 
> That makes more sense than avoiding other retailers. I don't believe anyone has gotten Smashwords numbers yet, but I don't plan on opting out on anything until I know what kind of money I'm earning. There's gotta be some magic formula.
> 
> Fer example, if I price at $2.99, Kobo discounts to $2.59, so Amazon discounts to $2.59, but the Kobo sales make up for the 24 cents difference, then it makes sense to keep the price as-is, doesn't it?


Sure, if there are plenty of sales. But if 99% of our sales are at Amazon it makes no sense to get 70% of $2.59 instead of $2.99 - the lack of sales reports isn't helping.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So perhaps the magic price point is $3.49, which will allow for discounting?
> 
> That makes more sense than avoiding other retailers. I don't believe anyone has gotten Smashwords numbers yet, but I don't plan on opting out on anything until I know what kind of money I'm earning. There's gotta be some magic formula.
> 
> Fer example, if I price at $2.99, Kobo discounts to $2.59, so Amazon discounts to $2.59, but the Kobo sales make up for the 24 cents difference, then it makes sense to keep the price as-is, doesn't it?


Yeah, but just remember to be in the iBookstore, your price has to end in .99.

Camille


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

daringnovelist said:


> Yeah, but just remember to be in the iBookstore, your price has to end in .99.
> 
> Camille


Steve Jobs and his .99 thing. I say make all Apple products .99 cents, and maybe I'll buy something Apple-related.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> So perhaps the magic price point is $3.49, which will allow for discounting?
> 
> That makes more sense than avoiding other retailers. I don't believe anyone has gotten Smashwords numbers yet, but I don't plan on opting out on anything until I know what kind of money I'm earning. There's gotta be some magic formula.


I wasn't suggesting that we avoid other retailers, I was trying to point out that for Amazon to hold us accountable for a retailer's price was ludicrous.

With all retailers, my 800 page books are set at a suggested retail price of $3.99 and $2.99 for the 400-500 page books. I have no control over what price they set to consumers. The last time I looked the only merchants holding the suggested retail price were Amazon and Smashwords.



Jack Kilborn said:


> Fer example, if I price at $2.99, Kobo discounts to $2.59, so Amazon discounts to $2.59, but the Kobo sales make up for the 24 cents difference, then it makes sense to keep the price as-is, doesn't it?


Yes, it would make sense if you actually got the sales from Kobo. But if the sales all come through Amazon you've lost the revenue. Then, just for sake of argument, what if Kobo or B&N or somebody else decides to start a price war and drops the price of your book again and again?

If Amazon's new contract is what you say it is (and I hope you're wrong) we'll be at the mercy of the retailers.

Might I suggest that we make no decisions about withdrawing from Smashwords Premium Distribution until we and our lawyers can review the new contract?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Jeff said:


> I wasn't suggesting that we avoid other retailers, I was trying to point out that for Amazon to hold us accountable for a retailer's price was ludicrous.


But I don't think that's what they're doing. They're offering a compromise between models. We'd like a higher royalty, they (like every retailer) want the power to price competitively. But the higher royalty punishes them for competing if they have to pay it on the list price. (Seventy percent is not a trivial amount.) In return for the higher percentage, we agree to give them a break when the competition tries to screw them.

We both benefit from the discounted promotion.

Yes, I am concerned about getting squeezed in a price war, but 1) that's more likely to happen with bestsellers, and 2) you're going to see a lot of authors opting out of stores that put us in that position.

Camille


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I wasn't suggesting that we avoid other retailers, I was trying to point out that for Amazon to hold us accountable for a retailer's price was ludicrous.
> 
> With all retailers, my 800 page books are set at a suggested retail price of $3.99 and $2.99 for the 400-500 page books. I have no control over what price they set to consumers.


But you do have control over the sites you allow to sell your work. If they discount, and that bothers you, then don't sell to them. However, if you're looking to hit a certain price point, the retailers all seem to discount by a fixed amount. So I suppose you could list at a higher price to get the amount you really want, and then the customer would be happy because they see they're getting a discount.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

daringnovelist said:


> But I don't think that's what they're doing. They're offering a compromise between models. We'd like a higher royalty, they (like every retailer) want the power to price competitively. But the higher royalty punishes them for competing if they have to pay it on the list price. (Seventy percent is not a trivial amount.) In return for the higher percentage, we agree to give them a break when the competition tries to screw them.


You make a very good point.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> you're going to see a lot of authors opting out of stores that put us in that position.


If that happens, they'll probably stop discounting. So this will all be sorted out on its own.

BTW, this is an interesting look at economics on a mini scale, and how competition and price wars eventually must reach an equilibrium.

Worst case scenario, if this takes a few months to sort out, we could just keep increasing prices by ten cents until we hit the sweet spot.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Worst case scenario, if this takes a few months to sort out, we could just keep increasing prices by ten cents until we hit the sweet spot.


I'm much too lazy. I'll just watch you.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I'm much too lazy. I'll just watch you.


I'm already worn out. 

I may just give up and price everything at 99 cents.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I may just give up and price everything at 99 cents.


Hahaha. That'll be the day.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> I may just give up and price everything at 99 cents.


Joe, I triple dog dare you.


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

Looks like two threads were merged…

On $2.99: I definitely plan to raise my prices to $2.99 within the next day or two. 6x the royalty is just too much to pass up. And, going back to Jack's first post, I'm moving down the same path he's already tread (not that I'm as far down it as he is). But most of us are so excited by our first sales and readers the first few months, we don't care about money at all. Eventually, we realize that, if we really love writing and want to do more of it, we need to pay rent. Not get rich, but make enough so I can spend time writing another book (and cover design, formatting, blogging, promoting, etc.) instead of working at a day job.

Authors making a living benefits readers too. For authors I enjoy, I'm glad they're making enough money to write a book or two a year for me to enjoy, instead of stopping writing or putting out a book every decade.

As for 70% and discounting: it's a sticky situation. I raised my prices on Smashwords (and my own website) last week. I don't have control over how long it takes Smashwords/retailers to update that price. And I don't have a say in how retailers discount it. I guess the only option is to opt out entirely, but I'm sure even that will take months to happen -- and I don't think it's fair to penalize us while we wait on retailers.

Another problem is, I don't know if it's worth sticking with the Smashwords retailers, since I uploaded my books in November, they went live on B&N, etc. in late January, and I don't have the first clue if I've sold 1 book or 100 through any Smashwords retailer. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say pull them all and I'll stick with Amazon, they report my sales instantly and pay me every month. For all I know, the retailer sales are just a rounding error, and I wouldn't let that hurt my Amazon royalties.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

Pricing is so very weird.  Someone just paid 1.99 for Blue Amber at Smashwords - when it's basically free (name your price).

Why would they do that? It's two chapters, an extended prologue to a book that hasn't come out yet. I don't think it was one of my friends - they all downloaded it when I put it up.

As they said in Shakespeare In Love, it's a mystery.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

David Derrico said:


> Another problem is, I don't know if it's worth sticking with the Smashwords retailers, since I uploaded my books in November, they went live on B&N, etc. in late January, and I don't have the first clue if I've sold 1 book or 100 through any Smashwords retailer. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say pull them all and I'll stick with Amazon, they report my sales instantly and pay me every month. For all I know, the retailer sales are just a rounding error, and I wouldn't let that hurt my Amazon royalties.


I'd say do not pull them until at least after the first real reports at the end of July (and I'd wait until at least October - when more of the bugs have been worked out of the system). As you mentioned, pulling them sooner will not make much difference in the current mess (because the response time is so slow) so it doesn't hurt to wait until you find out if there really is any reason to pull.

Camille


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

I'm with Mr. Derrico on this.  If it looks like Smashwords (which hasn't sent me anything about sales in three months) is going to hurt my Amazon sales, I'll pull my books from there.  Sadly that will take them off the premium distribution which gets them into Barnes & Nobles, etc.  DIYD/DIYD.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> I'd say do not pull them until at least after the first real reports at the end of July (and I'd wait until at least October - when more of the bugs have been worked out of the system). As you mentioned, pulling them sooner will not make much difference in the current mess (because the response time is so slow) so it doesn't hurt to wait until you find out if there really is any reason to pull.
> 
> Camille


That's probably true. We won't know if its going to mess them up for awhile. But if it does... well, we'll see.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Brendan Carroll said:


> I'm with Mr. Derrico on this. If it looks like Smashwords (which hasn't sent me anything about sales in three months) is going to hurt my Amazon sales, I'll pull my books from there. Sadly that will take them off the premium distribution which gets them into Barnes & Nobles, etc. DIYD/DIYD.


You can choose where it gets distributed to in the manager. I immediately pulled mine from Amazon because I already have it there. I'll yank it from B&N as soon as I'm able to get it there myself. Probably the same with Apple. Before long Smashwords will be completely obsolete.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

Remember, PubIt is coming soon. So unless you want your books on Kobo and Libre and Sony, there will be no need for Smashwords, really.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> You can choose where it gets distributed to in the manager. I immediately pulled mine from Amazon because I already have it there. I'll yank it from B&N as soon as I'm able to get it there myself. Probably the same with Apple. Before long Smashwords will be completely obsolete.


I think Smashwords will always be useful to some authors and not to others. Depends on how flexible you want to be.

Ed Patterson


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I think Smashwords will always be useful to some authors and not to others. Depends on how flexible you want to be.
> 
> Ed Patterson


That is true. It has been good in many ways for me, but I wrote to them about my account and no answer. It's like it's suspended in the twilight zone... not that TWILIGHT zone, the other one. No vampires.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Brendan Carroll said:


> That is true. It has been good in many ways for me, but I wrote to them about my account and no answer. It's like it's suspended in the twilight zone... not that TWILIGHT zone, the other one. No vampires.


You're already starting to sparkle.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> That is true. It has been good in many ways for me, but I wrote to them about my account and no answer. It's like it's suspended in the twilight zone... not that TWILIGHT zone, the other one. No vampires.


Mark didn't answer you. I'm surprised. Send me an email and perhaps I can intercede. In the name of the Fahter, the Son and the OEBD, amen.

Ed Patterson


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

> Amazon doesn't permit books of a certain file length to be $ .99 as per contract. Grin But that being said, the issue is not the price, its RAISING the price on the backs of readers. If you want to price a book initially at $2.99 that's one thing. But if you have priced it at $ .99, and not stated it's a promotion, there is no marketing reason to raise the price and expect to keep the good will of your customer. Of course, when I was an evil Marketing Director, I did such things, mea culpa, but now is my chance to stand up for something. Pricing is not the issue. Raising the price for no cost reasons is the issue.
> 
> I know I stand alone in this, and it's alright. But everyone captains their own ship, and when mine sinks, y'all can raise a glass on the yachts as they sail off into the sunset.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Ah, wise one--I did raise the price of "Thief" but that is in anticipation of a higher cost to produce--I hired an artist to redo the cover. She's not done yet, but that is the reason for the increase in the price. So I do get what you're saying. Now whether the buyer thinks he/she is getting a better product just because of the cover...well that remains to be seen. But everyone wants an "attractive" book and...the cover is part of that. So hopefully the "better" cover justifies the price because artists have to eat too and in order to pay them...well, my costs went up!

Re: Smashwords. Totally agree. It is obviously providing a service for some of us. I think they will actually get larger and better as time goes on. Distributing manually to forty different sites with forty different files just does not make sense FOR ME. Others may find ways to work with these things and be fine with that.

Maria


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> Ah, wise one--I did raise the price of "Thief" but that is in anticipation of a higher cost to produce--I hired an artist to redo the cover. She's not done yet, but that is the reason for the increase in the price. So I do get what you're saying. Now whether the buyer thinks he/she is getting a better product just because of the cover...well that remains to be seen. But everyone wants an "attractive" book and...the cover is part of that. So hopefully the "better" cover justifies the price because artists have to eat too and in order to pay them...well, my costs went up!
> 
> Re: Smashwords. Totally agree. It is obviously providing a service for some of us. I think they will actually get larger and better as time goes on. Distributing manually to forty different sites with forty different files just does not make sense FOR ME. Others may find ways to work with these things and be fine with that.
> 
> Maria


Bingo - Value added. Relaunch.

Edward C. Patterson

PS: I too have suffered. Because I offer a book on Smashwords for free that I offer at Amazon for $ .99, I had to raise the price from $ .00 to $ .99 on Smashwords (a few moments ago - which will trickle up to the other outlets).     Smashwords is important if you wish to reach readers, and as we all know, the one constant in this business is readers.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Bingo - Value added. Relaunch.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson
> 
> PS: I too have suffered. Because I offer a book on Smashwords for free that I offer at Amazon for $ .99, I had to raise the price from $ .00 to $ .99 on Smashwords (a few moments ago - which will trickle up to the other outlets).     Smashwords is important if you wish to reach readers, and as we all know, the one constant in this business is readers.


If we do decide to opt out of an outlet where our books are already available, do you happen to know how long it would take to pull them?


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> If we do decide to opt out of an outlet where our books are already available, do you happen to know how long it would take to pull them?


TC remember they stay up--because they have to be available for redownloading by anyone who has purchased. And I believe it is the same length as ANY change. So 8 weeks for B&N, 1 week for Apple, and so on. This is AFTER a new shipment has been made (in which case, the shipment would have to include instructions to opt out/remove from new sales.)

Were I you and you want to do this, I'd write to Mark. Let him know you want them pulled and also mark the books as opt out.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> TC remember they stay up--because they have to be available for redownloading by anyone who has purchased. And I believe it is the same length as ANY change. So 8 weeks for B&N, 1 week for Apple, and so on. This is AFTER a new shipment has been made (in which case, the shipment would have to include instructions to opt out/remove from new sales.)
> 
> Were I you and you want to do this, I'd write to Mark. Let him know you want them pulled and also mark the books as opt out.


The lack of control over pricing really bugs me - I'd never have opted in at Kobo if I thought a discount there would interfere with Amazon's new terms. But Mark has been great and I agree, emailing him is a good idea.


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

I'd really *hate* to pull it from Smashwords distribution -- I think they're great and I'm really rooting for them. But if their distribution / slow updates / lack of control over retailer discounts gets in the way of Amazon royalties? I don't think even Mark Coker would want his authors to lose money over something like that. Amazon would be pretty much forcing my hand if they are sticklers about it.

I'm sure they'll get it all straightened out though. I hope Mark is aware of the issue? Maybe he can come to an agreement with Amazon or something?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I just want to reiterate this, because it's hard to keep in mind when we're talking about big retailers who hold a lot of power like Amazon.

But, retailers are our partners, and we have to be careful not to shoot them in the foot in our efforts to take care of ourselves.  "They're more powerful than I am so why should I look out for them?"  Well, because they have power to look out for you.  

So try not to think of yourself as a customer, but as a business person.  And as a business person you have to consider more than just one or two things when making a partnership.  For instance, you may think "I can get to iBookstore by myself, so why should I use Smashwords?"  Well, it depends on how much business you're doing, but when you consider the ups and downs, remember that dealing with all those retailers yourself takes your precious time.  Are you doing well enough to hire someone?  Are you doing so poorly that the positives don't outweigh the negatives?  Furthermore, Mark Coker has a lot more leverage than you do when one of the retailers has a policy that hurts the indies.

The ability to give a free book with a simple coupon code means really valuable marketing strength.  There's a great value in ease of customer service.

As for Amazon, as I mentioned, they provide us with an unprecedented opportunity.  They're asking for flexibility in pricing to allow them to stay competitive. 

IMHO, these two partners are worth some compromise, or at least giving them a few months to work out improvements.

Camille


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> IMHO, these two partners are worth some compromise, or at least giving them a few months to work out improvements.


Agreed. Besides, it isn't like there are only a finite number of sales, and you have to make sure each sale is for the most you can earn.

If you're selling 5 a day now, there's no reason to think you won't be selling 5 a day tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. This is an endless tail.

So today, you might be losing a few cents. But you won't be losing sales. And the lower price does tend to sell better, even if it isn't a higher profit.

Cutting off distribution to five major players--iPad, Nook, Kobo, Sony, and Smashwords--without even seeing your numbers yet, doesn't seem like the wisest move.

What happens if Nook really takes off? If Sony drops their prices to $79 and beings selling like crazy? What if Kobo and Libre and Borders suddenly take the lead? How many books is iPad selling anyway?

I'm going to wait until all the data comes in, and not give myself an ulcer worrying about when prices will change. They WILL change. I'm sure Mark is working his best on it. I'm going to cut him some slack and see what happens.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

TC Beacham said:


> If we do decide to opt out of an outlet where our books are already available, do you happen to know how long it would take to pull them?


Quite some time. It has taken on average 4 months for each of the outlets to show my books, except Apple, which only took a week. That means, if I opted out, you would need for the next cycle. (I think). One of the reasons I opted out of Amazon Kindle on Smashwords was due to duplicating stuff (although you could sell a book of $ .01 on Amazon via Mobipocket - no more).

Edward C. Patterson


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

David Derrico said:


> I'd really *hate* to pull it from Smashwords distribution -- I think they're great and I'm really rooting for them. But if their distribution / slow updates / lack of control over retailer discounts gets in the way of Amazon royalties? I don't think even Mark Coker would want his authors to lose money over something like that. Amazon would be pretty much forcing my hand if they are sticklers about it.
> 
> I'm sure they'll get it all straightened out though. I hope Mark is aware of the issue? Maybe he can come to an agreement with Amazon or something?


I emailed Mark and he is not aware that Amazon will be using discounted prices beyond our control to determine our royalties - he believes they will use the price we listed at (which is what I thought until reading this thread), and asked me to send the details. Perhaps Jack will send him a copy of the document he has.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> However, if your ebooks are available anywhere else on the internet for less than your listed Amazon price, Amazon will match that price, and only pay you 70% of that price.


Jack, please see my post above - according to Mark's email, he doesn't know about this.

One other question: Since the 70% deal depends on a book being at least $2.99, I would think we wouldn't even qualify for the program if someone is selling it for below $2.99 - no?


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Quite some time. It has taken on average 4 months for each of the outlets to show my books, except Apple, which only took a week. That means, if I opted out, you would need for the next cycle. (I think). One of the reasons I opted out of Amazon Kindle on Smashwords was due to duplicating stuff (although you could sell a book of $ .01 on Amazon via Mobipocket - no more).
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Bummer!

If I decide to opt out, I'll probably go back to a special price until I qualify for the new terms. Though I think $2.99 is still quite a deal, my sales have tanked since the recording glitch. (If these numbers are now correct.)


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

I think Mark Coker wears a halo and I bless him daily, but B&N, Kobo, etc. have been so slow to list my books correctly (if at all) that I've opted out of every one of them as of last night. I'll opt in again when they've gotten their act a bit more together. 

CK


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I have opted out of all of them too. I was afraid that they would drop the price below $2.99, and mess up the 70% royalty on kindle.
Ann


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

But opting out won't get you out of them instantly - it will take months. Especially when you don't actually know the results yet - but you WILL have some first results in just a few weeks.  (And if they're good, you'll be starting over from scratch, and it will take months to get back in again.)

It makes sense to stay out if you're out, but if you've opted in, then opting out before you have the info is shooting yourself in the foot.

Camille


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> But opting out won't get you out of them instantly - it will take months. Especially when you don't actually know the results yet - but you WILL have some first results in just a few weeks. (And if they're good, you'll be starting over from scratch, and it will take months to get back in again.)
> 
> It makes sense to stay out if you're out, but if you've opted in, then opting out before you have the info is shooting yourself in the foot.
> 
> Camille


The money hasn't been that significant, and really, a well-run outfit shouldn't take months. I'm perfectly happy to let the smoke clear a bit. 

CK


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> But opting out won't get you out of them instantly - it will take months. Especially when you don't actually know the results yet - but you WILL have some first results in just a few weeks. (And if they're good, you'll be starting over from scratch, and it will take months to get back in again.)
> 
> It makes sense to stay out if you're out, but if you've opted in, then opting out before you have the info is shooting yourself in the foot.
> 
> Camille


Actually, Smashwords has made it easy to get on board with B&N and iPad. The iPad stand-alone is so complicated and requires a Mac, that to there's no better way to go for that platform. And If B&N slashes it price, it's not your list and therefore you're not in violation. The reason my books on Amazon are discounted reflects B&N discounts. Even the PODs, which are distributed by Ingrams, via CS (that is Amazon) are discounted to reflect B&N discounts. Now I have little clue what I'm selling on B&N or iPad (will some day), but something is being sold (there are reader stars - 5-stars thank God for most of the works - same on Kobobooks), and that discount is pressing Amazon's discount - one that I can parley into new readership. 

Ed Patterson


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I thought that according to the new contract which we have not seen if you price your book at $2.99 and Kobe or any of the others decide to discount it Amazon penalizes you.

Ann.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> The money hasn't been that significant, and really, a well-run outfit shouldn't take months. I'm perfectly happy to let the smoke clear a bit.
> 
> CK


But the first real numbers haven't been reported yet. Yeah the early ones were, while they were just getting started. The first real full quarter will only be reported in July. That's a few weeks, what harm would it have done to wait? If it turns out better than you thought, you've lost a whole quarter with zero to gain for having done it.

I guess that's what I want to know - what on earth do you GAIN by opting out before the July numbers come in? It's not like it will drop out of the catalog one jot earlier than simply changing the prices would have.

Camille


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I thought that according to the new contract which we have not seen if you price your book at $2.99 and Kobe or any of the others decide to dicount it Amazon penalizes you.
> 
> Ann.


I don't think so. Your set a LIST price to the retailer, and have no control or RESPONSIBILITY for the retail price. If that were the case, no one would sign the Amazon contract. If that is the case, no one should, but I'm positive that it isn;t the case. And I believe that those who have been in the beta-program have already stated that on this thread.

Ed Patterson


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I thought that according to the new contract which we have not seen if you price your book at $2.99 and Kobe or any of the others decide to dicount it Amazon penalizes you.
> 
> Ann.


That's debatable. I'd advise waiting until you see the actual contract before making a decision. Three days isn't going to make any difference either way.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I don't think so. Your set a LIST price to the retailer, and have no control or RESPONSIBILITY for the retail price. If that were the case, no one would sign the Amazon contract. If that is the case, no one should, but I'm positive that it isn;t the case. And I believe that those who have been in the beta-program have already stated that on this thread.


The text that I've seen floating around the Internet is commission based upon the suggested retail price as you suggested, Ed. However, those in the beta program say that's incorrect and that the commission/royalty will be based upon the lowest available retail price.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jeff said:


> The text that I've seen floating around the Internet is commission based upon the suggested retail price as you suggested, Ed. However, those in the beta program say that's incorrect and that the commission/royalty will be based upon the lowest available retail price.


I would think that a discount which puts the price below $2.99 may disqualify the book from the 70% entirely, since $2.99 is the stated lower limit.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> The text that I've seen floating around the Internet is commission based upon the suggested retail price as you suggested, Ed. However, those in the beta program say that's incorrect and that the commission/royalty will be based upon the lowest available retail price.


Correct.

From DTP:

"How are royalties calculated? If you select the 35% royalty option, your royalty will be 35 percent of your list price for each unit sold. If you select the 70% royalty option, your royalty will be 70 percent of the list price (but if we sell at a lower price to match a competitor's price, you will receive 70% of our sale price) for each eligible book sold to U.S customers, net delivery costs, and 35 percent of the list price for each unit sold to non-US customers. For full details, terms and conditions, see the Pricing Page and Terms and Conditions."


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Correct.
> 
> From DTP:
> 
> "How are royalties calculated? If you select the 35% royalty option, your royalty will be 35 percent of your list price for each unit sold. If you select the 70% royalty option, your royalty will be 70 percent of the list price (but if we sell at a lower price to match a competitor's price, you will receive 70% of our sale price) for each eligible book sold to U.S customers, net delivery costs, and 35 percent of the list price for each unit sold to non-US customers. For full details, terms and conditions, see the Pricing Page and Terms and Conditions."


Thanks for posting this paragraph. If the discount drops the price below $2.99, does the book still qualify for the program ($2.99 being the lower limit)?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

TC Beacham said:


> Thanks for posting this paragraph. If the discount drops the price below $2.99, does the book still qualify for the program ($2.99 being the lower limit)?


Sounds like it does only your royalty will be 70% of the Amazon sale price, not the list price.

In any case, I'm sticking with Amazon. It's all too complicated for me.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Sounds like it does only your royalty will be 70% of the Amazon sale price, not the list price.
> 
> In any case, I'm sticking with Amazon. It's all too complicated for me.


It really is complicated at this point. Amazon states that $2.99 is the lower price limit if you want the 70% royalty, so if the discount knocks the price out of the range it's not clear if you can still be in the program.

I just raised my price in order to qualify, but discounts I had nothing to do with could disqualify me - in which case, I'll probably go back to a lower price.

Oh well - by the end of this week, things should clear up.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> From DTP:
> 
> How are royalties calculated? ...


Thank you. That's very clear.

I think I'm going to stay with the 35% option.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> But the first real numbers haven't been reported yet. Yeah the early ones were, while they were just getting started. The first real full quarter will only be reported in July. That's a few weeks, what harm would it have done to wait? If it turns out better than you thought, you've lost a whole quarter with zero to gain for having done it.
> 
> I guess that's what I want to know - what on earth do you GAIN by opting out before the July numbers come in? It's not like it will drop out of the catalog one jot earlier than simply changing the prices would have.
> 
> Camille


I'm not sure about opting-out before those reports - but might lower my price again if I don't qualify for the new terms.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I agree, Jeff. I'm staying with the 35% option with my 750 page books also. I'm not a very good Three Card Monte player.  

Ed Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I've been doing just fine at $2.99 since February. I'm not changing what works and I'm definitely going to opt-in.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Eventually all writers reach a point where wanting to be read is replaced by wanting to be paid.


Going back to the OP that started this discussion - there was no "eventually" for me. One of the many things that turned me away from any effort to be traditionally published was realizing the kind of money I'd get for doing so many things I'd hate doing. People keep mentioning that "average" first advance of $5,000, but published authors who had every reason to know what they were talking about told me that for my kind of genre writing a first-timer would be much more likely to get $2,500. In return for that (and same would hold true for $5,000 actually), I'd be sucking up to people I didn't like and doing things that I didn't like and generally degrading the quality of my life. I had other ways to earn a living and preferred them all.

So I left my books sitting on my hard drive and expected that hard drive to go to the dump along with many of my other possessions after I died, books still there and unread. I had no urge to stick them on the Internet and get them "just read" for free. When I first heard about indie publishing, after I got over disbelieving that Amazon could be letting people publish for free, I couldn't get in gear fast enough. Since reality has exceeded my expectations, I can't tell you for sure what I my goal was when I first uploaded to DTP, but I know it was along the lines of - if it only makes $100 that's better than sitting on my PC never bringing in a cent for all that work. So for me having something read and making some income from it are inextricably entwined. I would have been very unhappy with a traditional deal where I got the advance and the book was such a failure no one read it. Nor would I be happy with thousands of readers if I got nothing or next to nothing for my work.

As to the $.99, I have to admit I always avoided it as a reader. I'm on a tight budget and a bargain-seeker in many ways, but I never got over the get-what-you-pay-for syndrome my mother drummed into me, and somehow $.99 for a book was just too cheap for me to believe it could have value. So as an author I never wanted to go there either. Although I have considered it many times because of the reports of greatly increased sales, I never could quite make myself do it. Oddly enough I've downloaded and enjoyed many free books. The human mind is a wonderful thing, and for me "free" is a promotion; $.99 is cheap. The $1.99 price I have on my books is less than I'm completely comfortable with, so I'll be happy with the raise to $2.99 in many ways and just have to hope it's at least a wash financially.

The reports that Amazon will still pay 70% on less than $2.99 if it finds my books are selling for less somewhere else is heartening to me. If that's the case I feel a lot less inclined to simply pull my books from Smashwords. I thought the 70% deal meant if they found my book for sale for $1.99 still at B&N then I'd be flipped back to the 35% royalty again. Still getting 70% but on the $1.99 for a couple of months is something I can live with, so I hope that interpretation is correct.


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

Yeah, so long as Amazon gives us 70% of the discounted price, I'm actually not gonna lose any sleep over it. I mean, if they lower the price, we should get enough extra sales to make up for the lower royalties anyway. So long as we still get the 70%, the rest can work itself out, I suppose.

Now, if Amazon would just pretty pretty please finish up the price change so my books aren't still "unavailable" -- argh.

For the record, when changing the price from $0.99 to $2.99 through DTP, a warning came up that the books would be unavailable for 24 hours if I raise the price by that amount. I did it very late last night -- _Right Ascension_ says "unavailable" on the product page but I somehow got a sale (and royalty) at the new price, _Declination_ seems to be ready to go at $2.99, and _The Twiller_ is still up for $0.99. Odd.

Hopefully the fact that B&N and Kobo are discounting my first book to $0.79 isn't messing things up and making my book unavailable! THAT would be a problem.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Might I add, $ .99 is not cheap - it's "inexpensive" and if the book is bad, it's not a bargain. I had the same trepidations about lowering my prices to $ .99 and did it at first as a promotion, but then readership increased (I mean those who read and provided me with feedback. Where do you get that feedback other than reviews? Here at Kindleboard and not by coming here to sell a book or promote a doctrine. Kindleboards is for readers. Authors that stay authors live in a a bubble. Authors who are readers, swim with the other readers, and those readers might read your books and give you feedback. The best feedback is that your book is being read. Better, if it's liked or loved, but read is the most important beat). Since kindleboard readers are not enthusiastic about book hawking, but do appreciate authors, I removed the promotional aspect from those books and left them at $ .99. I left a few (the big


Spoiler



ass


 700 pagers at $ 3.99, which is known as the Blue_Goddess sweet spot, named after Blue_Gopddess, an Amazon threader of prominence). But elloc, I agree, it's scary when you make a price change. In my case, raising the price sends the wrong message to my readers and encourages other authors to go skinny dipping in stormy waters. To each his own. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

TC Beacham said:


> It really is complicated at this point. Amazon states that $2.99 is the lower price limit if you want the 70% royalty, so if the discount knocks the price out of the range it's not clear if you can still be in the program.
> 
> I just raised my price in order to qualify, but discounts I had nothing to do with could disqualify me - in which case, I'll probably go back to a lower price.
> 
> Oh well - by the end of this week, things should clear up.


No, it's actually pretty simple. The 2.99 number is the LIST price - the one you set. The "discount price" is a separate number set by the retailer - and that's what the customer actually pays. As long as you set your list price between 2.99 and 9.99 for all vendors, you will get 70 percent of whatever Amazon customers pay. THAT number is variable but you are still ahead no matter what because you get double the royalty.

The other question is what deal Smashwords has with those other retailers. If they offer a discount, do we get a percentage of the discount price or the list price? (This is probably something that will change back and forth - since the whole process is new.)

Camille


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> No, it's actually pretty simple. The 2.99 number is the LIST price - the one you set. The "discount price" is a separate number set by the retailer - and that's what the customer actually pays. As long as you set your list price between 2.99 and 9.99 for all vendors, you will get 70 percent of whatever Amazon customers pay. THAT number is variable but you are still ahead no matter what because you get double the royalty.
> 
> The other question is what deal Smashwords has with those other retailers. If they offer a discount, do we get a percentage of the discount price or the list price? (This is probably something that will change back and forth - since the whole process is new.)
> 
> Camille


Well, that does sound pretty simple! I've been dealing with an attorney this week and paying attention to every little detail of her crazy legalese - maybe it's rubbing off here. lol


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## Dennis Phillips (Jun 19, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> To get 70% royalty, the book must be between $2.99 and $9.99.


Jack,
When does the 70% royalty go into effect? Is it June 30? I was originally priced at $4.99 until I read Karen's McQuestions interview with Konrath and she said a good price (among other things) sells books. I dropped mine to $2.99, but I think she was talking $1.99. I agree, there has to be a point of diminishing returns. Yeah, you can get noticed for .99, but you make nothing.
Dennis


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## Jay Hartman (Mar 19, 2009)

We started out with our short stories all at $1.25 on a scale that where the price would increase based on the number of sales. When we realized that would be impossible to enforce, we raised short stories to $1.50 across the board. Our novellas sell for $2.99. We have one full-length novel at the moment at $7.99. I did a LOT of research (ten years, actually) into ebook pricing and I know it's possible to make money at these prices. How do I know? Because we're doing it. So if you work at the marketing and get the reviews and get quality content out there, people WILL pay for it. There is no value in undervaluing.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

Dennis Phillips said:


> Jack,
> When does the 70% royalty go into effect? Is it June 30? I was originally priced at $4.99 until I read Karen's McQuestions interview with Konrath and she said a good price (among other things) sells books. I dropped mine to $2.99, but I think she was talking $1.99. I agree, there has to be a point of diminishing returns. Yeah, you can get noticed for .99, but you make nothing.
> Dennis


You also make nothing if you don't sell any books. Today is my 2nd day at 2.99 and I'm working on a goose egg. Had 2 yesterday, which would equal 6 .99 sales, slightly more than my average. We'll see what happens, but selling 0 books is unsustainable.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> You also make nothing if you don't sell any books. Today is my 2nd day at 2.99 and I'm working on a goose egg. Had 2 yesterday, which would equal 6 .99 sales, slightly more than my average. We'll see what happens, but selling 0 books is unsustainable.


But I'm selling more of my 2.99 than of my .99 books. (And today was a goose egg for both for me.) I think that it depends on the book, but it also depends on your patience level and how you market. 0.99 is easy to market - you can get on all sorts of lists and in blogs. But it isn't the only way to sell, and that audience can be got through special offers of Smashwords coupons too.

Not that I'm advocating that everybody raise their prices. I just think you should think twice before believing that it's _necessary_ to sell. There may be some other thing that's even more important, if you have the patience to find it.

Camille


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

NY Publishing has been going on and on about "raining" consumers to accept a $9.99, or $12.99 price point. That's ludicrous. Most customers don't want to pay that. They've shown they'll pay $7.99 for a paperback, and resent paying more for something intangible.

But on the other end of the scale, it seems silly that an interested consumer wouldn't pull the trigger on a $2.99 price. Ebooks are still too new, and $2.99 is well below average for books, and ebooks. It's erroneous to believe that readers have been conditioned, so quickly, not to buy anything over 99 cents. I know this, because my two bestselling ebooks are $2.99, and I have other ebooks doing well at $4.99, $6.99, and $7.99. In fact, my poorest seller is my 99 cent one.

If you aren't selling at $2.99, you should be experimenting with other things--the cover, the description, the opening of the novel--before automatically dropping the price.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

Jack Kilborn said:


> NY Publishing has been going on and on about "raining" consumers to accept a $9.99, or $12.99 price point. That's ludicrous. Most customers don't want to pay that. They've shown they'll pay $7.99 for a paperback, and resent paying more for something intangible.
> 
> But on the other end of the scale, it seems silly that an interested consumer wouldn't pull the trigger on a $2.99 price. Ebooks are still too new, and $2.99 is well below average for books, and ebooks. It's erroneous to believe that readers have been conditioned, so quickly, not to buy anything over 99 cents. I know this, because my two bestselling ebooks are $2.99, and I have other ebooks doing well at $4.99, $6.99, and $7.99. In fact, my poorest seller is my 99 cent one.
> 
> If you aren't selling at $2.99, you should be experimenting with other things--the cover, the description, the opening of the novel--before automatically dropping the price.


Are you sure name recognition isn't more of a factor than you think? There has been mention of having a loss leader throughout this thread, and for those of us with just one book, that may be all we've got going for us. Certainly no one's going to argue that there aren't a variety of factors that work into a sale, and I accepted your original numbers.

I'll just have to go on my own experience here: I had a steadily selling book, I raised the price to 2.99, and unless the 4am crowd does something unexpected I'll have my first day without a single sale (on a day I published a guest post on a blog with 1100 followers). I'll stick it out for a while, but it might just not work out for us as it does for you.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> You also make nothing if you don't sell any books. Today is my 2nd day at 2.99 and I'm working on a goose egg. Had 2 yesterday, which would equal 6 .99 sales, slightly more than my average. We'll see what happens, but selling 0 books is unsustainable.


To get an accurate sense of if its working or not, I'm pretty you need more than two day's worth of data.

DTP has spoiled authors. Instant sales info is unheard of elsewhere in publishing. I don't have an accurate count of how many print novels I've sold until 18 months to 2 years after the publication date, and even then it isn't 100% accurate.

There are a lot of factors in play when it comes to sales. Normal fluctuations occur. If you're experimenting with change (new cover, new price, new description, new draft of the manuscript) you need a least a month of data before drawing conclusions.

Also keep in mind that DTP has been acting goofy lately, and some sales may not be getting reported.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

My experiment in pricing Elfhunter at 2.99 has been interesting and might be helpful. 

First, I had said from the beginning that the 0.99 price was an introductory offer, so I really shouldn't have to worry about 'betraying' my readers. No one has yet complained of being betrayed by a money-grubbing author...notice I said 'yet'. I think it's interesting that my most recent review states what a bargain the books are at 2.99.

Second, my sales TANKED at first. They have since rebounded. Granted...my first few sales days in June were record days for some reason (my hypothesis is bargain hunters, as I gave plenty of warning of the impending price increase). That made the 'tankage' more obvious. Now sales have leveled off at a respectable level--about what they were late last year. (Not Konrath, but not bad. I'm hoping they continue to rebound.) 

It is difficult to watch those rankings drop. At 0.99 they ranged between 2,000 and 4,000...rarely EVER out of top 100 in Epic Fantasy. Now they are still (usually) in the top 3-5,000...but they have gone all the way down to 8,000 and they do drop out of epic once in a while. That was painful. (Well...yeah, I got spoiled.) Now I need to grit my teeth and see what happens. Any good scientist knows that more data over a longer time tells a more complete story. 

Another interesting statistic--before the price increase, over 80% of visitors to the (kindle) book site purchased it. Now, that number is down to 77%. What that seems to tell me is that folks may be considering the purchase a little harder, checking the book out a little more carefully before they one-click. That doesn't seem a bad thing to me. Maybe they are putting the book on a 'wish list' or maybe they're deciding it's not for them. 

One thing is for certain--I'd rather have fewer readers who have a greater likelihood of loving the book than more readers with a lesser likelihood of loving it. Bad reviews I DON'T need.  

All in the interest of science, don't ya know...time will tell. These are good, long reads and an excellent value at 2.99. Still mulling over the 'loss leader' idea.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Just want to say hi to the readers on this thread.   

Edward C. Patterson


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## Dennis Phillips (Jun 19, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> You also make nothing if you don't sell any books. Today is my 2nd day at 2.99 and I'm working on a goose egg. Had 2 yesterday, which would equal 6 .99 sales, slightly more than my average. We'll see what happens, but selling 0 books is unsustainable.


I had originally priced mine at $4.99. It seemed that anyone could afford that. Now I've dropped it to $2.99. I spend that much on a snack sometimes. Kids pay $4 for Starbucks coffee and think nothing of it. The folks at CreateSpace think we are way underpriced--even at $4.99. I think the idea is that the perception would be that if it is really cheap, then it must be garbage. I just have a hard time seeing that someone would pay .99 for a weeks worth of entertainment, but they wouldn't pay $2.99? It just doesn't make sense to me.


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

Just asked this question on another thread.  But does anyone know if we have to actually do something June 30 if our books are already priced at $2.99.  Do we have to go to DTP and click something?  Or is it automatic and Amazon just assumes if our books are $2.99 or more we'd like the 70 percent royalty instead of 35 percent?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

donna callea said:


> Just asked this question on another thread. But does anyone know if we have to actually do something June 30 if our books are already priced at $2.99. Do we have to go to DTP and click something? Or is it automatic and Amazon just assumes if our books are $2.99 or more we'd like the 70 percent royalty instead of 35 percent?


It can't be automatic because those who opt-in must accept the terms of the new contract. Those in the beta group say that there's a button on their control panel.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff said:


> It can't be automatic because those who opt-in must accept the terms of the new contract. Those in the beta group say that there's a button on their control panel.


It's a whole new control panel design. You'll be required to check a box that states you're the copyright owner, change your price if needed, and then check a box to choose the new rate. Then it will take a day or three to update into the system. It also estimates what your delivery fee will be, bases on size of the file. My novels are all between 3 cents and 6 cents, which is deducted from the royalty.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I assume that if you are not opting in, you just leave things as they are.

BTW, DTP is running mainta\enance tonight from 9 PM, so no one panic if it's down.

Ed Patterson


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I assume that if you are not opting in, you just leave things as they are.
> 
> BTW, DTP is running mainta\enance tonight from 9 PM, so no one panic if it's down.
> 
> Ed Patterson


Correct.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

Question to anyone: Can Nook users buy at Amazon - is there an app? (Searched but didn't find anything.)


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> Correct.


Danke schoen, Herr Kilborn 

Der Meistersinger von Grafenwoehr


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## lib2b (Apr 6, 2010)

TC Beacham said:


> Question to anyone: Can Nook users buy at Amazon - is there an app? (Searched but didn't find anything.)


Anyone can _buy_ Kindle books, but if you're asking if Nook users can _read_ a Kindle book on the Nook, then the answer is sort of, but not without jumping through many hoops, and only if it doesn't have DRM. I have bought a couple Kindle books through Amazon, and to put them on my Nook, I have to:
a) download it to my computer with the Kindle for PC app, 
b) find the book file on my computer and rename the extension to .mobi,
c) use Calibre to convert the .mobi file to a .epub file, and 
d) hook my Nook up to the computer and sideload the .epub file on to it.

There's no Kindle app for the Nook that automatically allows reading the files, and the Nook doesn't support the amazon/mobi format anyway, so a format conversion is necessary. The steps above only work if the book does not contain DRM. If a book for the Kindle contains DRM, Nook users are out of luck unless they want to read on their computers with the Kindle for PC app or have some other mobile device that has a Kindle app (I personally have no desire to actually read books on my PC, and I have no other devices that there's a Kindle app for).


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## Carol Hanrahan (Mar 31, 2009)

Took the plunge and put Baling up to 2.99.  
Going to keep the short stories at 0.99 though.


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## TC Beacham (Nov 23, 2009)

lib2b said:


> Anyone can _buy_ Kindle books, but if you're asking if Nook users can _read_ a Kindle book on the Nook, then the answer is sort of, but not without jumping through many hoops, and only if it doesn't have DRM. I have bought a couple Kindle books through Amazon, and to put them on my Nook, I have to:
> a) download it to my computer with the Kindle for PC app,
> b) find the book file on my computer and rename the extension to .mobi,
> c) use Calibre to convert the .mobi file to a .epub file, and
> ...


Thanks so much for the explanation - very helpful!


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Jay Hartman said:


> We started out with our short stories all at $1.25 on a scale that where the price would increase based on the number of sales. When we realized that would be impossible to enforce, we raised short stories to $1.50 across the board. Our novellas sell for $2.99. We have one full-length novel at the moment at $7.99. I did a LOT of research (ten years, actually) into ebook pricing and I know it's possible to make money at these prices. How do I know? Because we're doing it. So if you work at the marketing and get the reviews and get quality content out there, people WILL pay for it. There is no value in undervaluing.


Jay, I'm curious, who is "we"? Are you a publisher or something? Just asking for clarity's sake, thanks.

And also, increasing price based on number of sales? How does that work?


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> It's a whole new control panel design. You'll be required to check a box that states you're the copyright owner, change your price if needed, and then check a box to choose the new rate. Then it will take a day or three to update into the system. It also estimates what your delivery fee will be, bases on size of the file. My novels are all between 3 cents and 6 cents, which is deducted from the royalty.


Thanks for the info. Guess I could have waited until tomorrow to change the price.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Dennis Phillips said:


> I just have a hard time seeing that someone would pay .99 for a weeks worth of entertainment, but they wouldn't pay $2.99?


A week's worth? Is this the world's longest book, or are you assuming the world's slowest readers?


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

ellenoc said:


> A week's worth? Is this the world's longest book, or are you assuming the world's slowest readers?


It nearly ALWAYS takes me over a week to read a novel. I don't think that's a slow reader. That's a half hour or so a day. That's all I have time for. Plus, I like to make them stretch out, especially if I'm enjoying it.

I've never understood how someone can read 3-4 books a week.

But that's just me.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

Back to the topic, I changed mine to $2.99 five or six days ago. I wanted to avoid jamming the queue when the switch day comes (tomorrow).

So far sales are sluggish, but the money would be about the same once the 70% kicks in. I expected this, especially since I went early. My hope is that as more join the fold, my price will become more the norm and not the exception.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Dave Dykema said:


> I've never understood how someone can read 3-4 books a week.


And I've never understood how someone can take a week to read a book unless they don't particularly like it and it's a chore, but that's just me. Even so, the fact that someone reads a book at a slow or fast rate doesn't change the amount of entertainment, assuming they do read at anything like the same speed. Half an hour a day for a week is still 3.5 hours, and so is sitting down and reading a book all in one 3.5 hour session. So I don't agree that you can call a book a week's worth of entertainment. IMO the more fair comparison is with other entertainment that lasts in the 3-4 hour range.

And back on the subject, I hope you are right. We're probably all going to have to wait and see for quite a while before we can draw any conclusions, and the answer for one may not be the answer for another. Already some people are saying their sales increased/decreased/stayed the same when they raised their price to $2.99. Since I have dial up, whenever I want to do something that matters with Amazon, Smashwords or another outfit like that, I take my netbook to the library and use their wi fi, so I'm going to wait a day or two after the end of the month and hope any crowd that negatively affects Amazon's servers is reduced.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

OK, so Joe, please tell me if I have this correct.

With the new royalty rate, Amazon will pay 70% of the list price for all books priced between $2.99 and $9.99, less delivery fees of 3-6 cents, depending on file size. UNLESS the book is found available elsewhere at a lower price, in which case Amazon will drop the price of the book on their site. If said drop results in the book falling below the $2.99 minimum, then it will not be eligible for the program.

Is that correct?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

David McAfee said:


> OK, so Joe, please tell me if I have this correct.
> 
> With the new royalty rate, Amazon will pay 70% of the list price for all books priced between $2.99 and $9.99, less delivery fees of 3-6 cents, depending on file size. UNLESS the book is found available elsewhere at a lower price, in which case Amazon will drop the price of the book on their site. If said drop results in the book falling below the $2.99 minimum, then it will not be eligible for the program.
> 
> Is that correct?


The way I read it, the *list *price of $2.99 makes you eligible as long as your book is *listed *at $2.99 or more on the other sites. If the other sites discount your book, and amazon has to follow suit, you'll still get 70% but only on the discounted price.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

David McAfee said:


> OK, so Joe, please tell me if I have this correct.
> 
> With the new royalty rate, Amazon will pay 70% of the list price for all books priced between $2.99 and $9.99, less delivery fees of 3-6 cents, depending on file size. UNLESS the book is found available elsewhere at a lower price, in which case Amazon will drop the price of the book on their site. If said drop results in the book falling below the $2.99 minimum, then it will not be eligible for the program.
> 
> Is that correct?


Not quite (but close). If your "list price" is between 2.99 and 9.99, then you are eligible to sign up for the higher royalty program. They will pay you 70 percent of the actual price (discounted or not), minus the delivery fee.

There are two prices on every book. One is "list" which is what YOU set. The other is the one the customer pays, or what is sometimes called the "discount" price (even when it's not discounted). The list rules whether you are eligible, the discount rules what you get.

The question is whether 70 percent of a discount is better than 35 percent of list - and since they are usually the same price, I think the 70 percent is still a better deal.

(It does look, though, as if the new wording on the agreement does include giveaways on your own website, but not coupons.)

Camille


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Will the switch tomorrow begin just after midnight?

Ann


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Well, the old DTP is operating, while all of Amazon is down. Evidently their new changes for Windows Explorer 8 blew up (at least I was getting reformatting for Exlorer 8 error messages). The new DTP is sunsetting Windows Explorer 6 support. So we all might have a vacation from selling. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

BIG PROBLEM.

I just got an email from Amazon that they pulled my titles since the list price on Kobo still says $0.99 (who knows how long it will take Smashwords/Kobo/B&N to get it updated) and the new price I entered through DTP is $2.99.

So the slow speed of updates to Smashwords retailers has now caused my book to be pulled from Amazon. I've lost 2 days of sales and who knows how many more. Yes, 2 days of Amazon sales is more than 8 months of Smashwords sales all put together. I am less than thrilled.

Who knows what will happen July 1, or if I can even qualify for 70%. This has to be affecting others as well, unless you thought to raise your prices through Smashwords months ago?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

That's rough, David. I can see that you won't get 70%, but why would they pull the titles altogether?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

David Derrico said:


> BIG PROBLEM.
> 
> I just got an email from Amazon that they pulled my titles since the list price on Kobo still says $0.99 (who knows how long it will take Smashwords/Kobo/B&N to get it updated) and the new price I entered through DTP is $2.99.


Contact Mark Coker. You're probably just the first. It might help to work through Smashwords, who has some leverage with Kobo.

We did discuss that this would be likely to happen. Even if Amazon is forgiving, their automated systems would trigger, and we'll have to get it straightened out.

(Just remember folks that pulling your titles from anywhere will NOT speed things up, so it's better to keep your head and work on one problem at a time. And also remember that Mark Coker did not cause this problem.)

Camille


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> That's rough, David. I can see that you won't get 70%, but why would they pull the titles altogether?


Because the current (old) DTP contract says you can't sell it for less elsewhere.

That means, if you opt in to distribution through Smashwords, it prevents you from updating your Amazon prices for 3 months or however long it takes changes to show up at retailers. That is a very, very big problem. A dealbreaker, in fact.

I don't know if I should re-publish at 99 cents or what, right now my book isn't being sold at all.

PS: I emailed Mark this morning, no response. I emailed again with this latest info a little while ago.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

David Derrico said:


> PS: I emailed Mark this morning, no response. I emailed again with this latest info a little while ago.


He often doesn't respond until he has something to say - which may not be until he's had a chance to talk to Kobo and others. (And he's probably getting a lot of similar emails from more than just you.)

Camille


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

David Derrico said:


> Because the current (old) DTP contract says you can't sell it for less elsewhere.
> 
> That means, if you opt in to distribution through Smashwords, it prevents you from updating your Amazon prices for 3 months or however long it takes changes to show up at retailers. That is a very, very big problem. A dealbreaker, in fact.
> 
> ...


It makes sense to republish at 99 until you can raise your prices at Smashwords. 35% of 99 is more than 70% of nothing.

Keep us posted.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

David Derrico said:


> I just got an email from Amazon that they pulled my titles since the list price on Kobo still says $0.99 (who knows how long it will take Smashwords/Kobo/B&N to get it updated) and the new price I entered through DTP is $2.99.


That's crazy. The current agreement says that you agree not to offer your books for sale at a lower suggested retail price, but it doesn't have any language that would justify removing your titles if a retailer sets a lower price.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

That's horrible. Given the sheer amount of time it takes for Smashword price changes to hit everywhere else (and we're talking months here for some) I'd recommend not selling anything on Smashwords for a little bit until all the nitty gritty details come out. Poor Dave might have to wait 3 months for the price change to finally hit Kobo (or even longer) before he'd finally be allowed to raise his prices on Amazon...or potentially even publish them at all. If Amazon starts yanking titles (glances around warily at his own books) then Smashwords might start actually costing authors money instead of helping them.

Ugh.

David Dalglish


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

That's really... unpleasant.  I really hope it's an automated response, and Amazon will realize it's not the way to go.  Reducing the price would be one thing.  Yanking everyone's books is just going to tick a lot of authors off and create a great many problems all around.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I think because I put my book up very recently then upped my price and opted out of everything before I had been accepted, I will avoid this problem. But really who knows, and when I want to sign up later it will take time.

Ann


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I think because I put my book up very recently then upped my price and opted out of everything before I had been accepted, I will avoid this problem. But really who knows, and when I want to sign up later it will take time.
> 
> Ann


I've had my books at $2.99 for a while in anticipation of the 70% royalty. I decided against Smashwords because of the shear amount of work to format my books for them. In hindsight, it was a good decision.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Look, folks, nobody realized that this was coming, but hindsight is 20-20.

The lesson here is to not raise a price until you know you are actually eligible.  You agreed to the terms, so you're responsible for it.  And just because you opted out doesn't put you in the clear - it takes just as long to do that as it does anything else.

For those for whom it isn't too late, don't raise your prices on Amazon right away.  DO raise your prices on Smashwords and other places you use.  (It's probably a bad idea for everyone to raise prices right this second anyway, because Amazon is having enough problems with its systems.)

Give it a week or two for the prices to trickle through, and CHECK your prices to see if they're all where they are supposed to be. If it's taking too long, write to Mark (but give it a chance first, because he's working on getting the retailers to speed it up) and see if he can goose your title.

Camille


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

daringnovelist said:


> Look, folks, nobody realized that this was coming, but hindsight is 20-20.
> 
> The lesson here is to not raise a price until you know you are actually eligible. You agreed to the terms, so you're responsible for it. And just because you opted out doesn't put you in the clear - it takes just as long to do that as it does anything else.
> 
> ...


Or stay pat. 

Ed Patterson


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

David Derrico said:


> BIG PROBLEM.
> 
> I just got an email from Amazon that they pulled my titles since the list price on Kobo still says $0.99 (who knows how long it will take Smashwords/Kobo/B&N to get it updated) and the new price I entered through DTP is $2.99.


From DTP:

Books in this category will not be removed/unpublished/banned from the website, but will be made unbuyable for a short time, to let other parts of our price matching logic catch up. We'll work on the wording of that message to make it more clear.


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

Jack Kilborn said:


> From DTP:
> 
> Books in this category will not be removed/unpublished/banned from the website, but will be made unbuyable for a short time, to let other parts of our price matching logic catch up. We'll work on the wording of that message to make it more clear.


Haha, thanks, after they told me I needed to republish to get it live again, which I just did back at 99 cents (being up at 99 cents is better than being down at any price).

Sigh.


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## JA Konrath (Apr 2, 2009)

I've asked DTP several other specific questions, and also emailed Mark Coker. I'll post the results here.

No one should panic. This will all get worked out.

But if you're worried about losing your ranking, or spots on bestseller lists, it would make sense to change your Amazon prices to match your Kobo and B&N prices, and then change them back when everything gets straightened out. 

Depending on what I hear, I may go that route. Can't hurt to have a "sale" for a few days on Amazon.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Does anyone have a list of all the places one needs to check to see what effect Smashwords has had? I know about B&N, Sony, Kobo, but the other day there was a post mentioning some obscure place and the poster said it had to have been through Smashwords because that's the only place other than Amazon he'd put the book.


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## Dennis Phillips (Jun 19, 2010)

ellenoc said:


> A week's worth? Is this the world's longest book, or are you assuming the world's slowest readers?


You're right. Maybe the worlds slowest readers. I guess I'm thinking of someone who works a regular job and reads for entertainment in their spare time. Mine is 149,000 words. Took me a week in my spare time when I finished it to read through from start to finish, but I'm probably easily distracted too.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

My big guys are 225,000 words - but my readers are fast.  

BTW, everything is back to normal and the sales are pouring in. Thanks, Readers - you're my heroin. 

Edward C. Patterson
BTW: A good place for some of those royalties are here, to the best website on the web. See Donate button at the bottom of the page.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

Kobo had my book discounted to $.79. Maybe that's where the $.79 price came from on Amazon when I had the problem last week. I raised Smashwords to $2.99 to match Amazon, we'll see what happens.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Ellen, I think it was diesel.

Ann


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I see the new contract, I see the control panel, but I don't see where I press to make a decision. Am I just not seeing right or is it not there yet?

Ann


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## D.A. Boulter (Jun 11, 2010)

Go to 'Bookshelf', choose 'Actions' from your book title, choose 'edit book details', go down to the bottom of the page and click on 'Save and Continue' and you'll be on the page where you make your decision for price and royalty.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

The new control pael


Spoiler



sucks


. No more month to date reporting. What were they drinking and where were the betas?

Edward C. Patterson


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## Kristen Painter (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't like the new control panel either. It requires me to do math. Hello, I was an English major! For a reason!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I'll adapt, but my accounting system for Kindle was based on the old report. Remeber, I have 15 books and a sale this morning was mystery meat. I tracked it down using other tools, but not much thought has gone into this. And I suspect the new contract option might have some chutes and ladders. But that's not my concern.

Ed Patterson
How was eclipse, everyone? I'm going Friday.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

It looks like crap on Google Chrome. Nothing is lining up correctly. And who had the idea of just 3 day sales or a week instead of month? Were betatesters just all super happy to get their 70% early that they didn't bother to, you know, say anything? And dear lord, my weekly has all 3 books separated several times, giving me each weeks worth of each book. It is an unreadable mess.

David Dalglish


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## D.A. Boulter (Jun 11, 2010)

Half-Orc said:


> It looks like crap on Google Chrome. Nothing is lining up correctly. And who had the idea of just 3 day sales or a week instead of month? Were betatesters just all super happy to get their 70% early that they didn't bother to, you know, say anything? And dear lord, my weekly has all 3 books separated several times, giving me each weeks worth of each book. It is an unreadable mess.
> 
> David Dalglish


How about your 'previous months and year to date'? I've not been here long enough to see one of those reports. Does it look like it makes sense? Agree with you on the beta testers -- or on Amazons lack of response to their complaints (if any).


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

I need to switch comps, this one can't open that old file. I feel really, really bad for people with more books than me. I have only 3, but when click "Weekly reports" I have 12 total listings. Someone like Ed is going to have like 40. Throw in the formatting problems, the fact that it doesn't fit on the page (yes, Amazon, I'd love to see average file size and avg delivery charge so I have to scroll to the right in both the regular window and browser window all to see the actual money total, that information is just soo much more crucial), just unbelievable.

David Dalglish


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## Kristen Painter (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, for a moment I thought I had 14 returns, not sales. Hard to tell when it's not lining up. Guess we need to send some emails, huh?


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I agree.  It is an unreadable mess.  I have to scroll around to see anything, and it's going to take some real effort to figure out what I've earned monthly per book.  I have six titles, and can't figure out how to see the title and the total at the same time. Ugh.


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## D.A. Boulter (Jun 11, 2010)

Ain't it great to see all those cheerful faces out there, beaming in pleasure at what Amazon hath wrought?  I can now go to bed happy in the knowledge that all my fellow authors are filled with joy.  

What makes it all worse is the sad thought that many people worked hard on what they thought would please us.  I'm sure--if they happen to watch these boards at all--that they are now feeling like we feel when we get a 1-star review.  We worked very hard on that novel, put our hearts and souls into it and they trashed it.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

So the weekly information page works (at least shows data) for you guys?

My transactions from 6/27-6/30 works, view weekly sales report does nothing, and view previous months' and YTD report looks just like it always did.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Thanks DA got it. Ann


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Dave Dykema said:


> So the weekly information page works (at least shows data) for you guys?
> 
> My transactions from 6/27-6/30 works, view weekly sales report does nothing, and view previous months' and YTD report looks just like it always did.


Yep. That's what mine does, too.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Did y'all catch the little note at the top and the bottom that 70% royalty may not be available in all territories where the book is sold?  That means extra columns. 

I keep track of my sales on a calendar, so I can work with this. I don't put them in a manual spreadsheet until the end of the month.  I think where the real mess is going to come in is downloading the sales report at the end of the month.

The two extra days I took downloading new files means I can't opt in for the one that is priced at $2.99 until it's published.  In the meantime, everything is being shown as in review or publishing.  

I'm guessing that since they didn't allow us to opt in until today, they plan (hope) to have everything back up tomorrow.


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

I got a fright when I first looked at it and seemed to see lots of refunds.  It's nice to have the option for more details but the old simple way was good enough for me.  Maybe it'll be easier to get used to once a new month starts and all the old data clears.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

farrellclaire said:


> I got a fright when I first looked at it and seemed to see lots of refunds. It's nice to have the option for more details but the old simple way was good enough for me. Maybe it'll be easier to get used to once a new month starts and all the old data clears.


The new month starts in the middle of a week. NOW that's a complication.  I have Windows Explorer 6 at work, so I wont be able to check anything during the day, which might be a good thing. (I think I have 2 sales - he says, checking his ranking).

Ed Patterson


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## tbrookside (Nov 4, 2009)

Yeah, like Ed, I have that IE 6 problem.

I predict that I will have a complete nervous breakdown by the end of the week.

And I only have two books.  If I had as many books to check as Ed, I wouldn't make it to the end of the day.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I have IE7 at home - so I get to do math and scratch my head there.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I upgraded to IE8 last night, but I actually use Firefox. I tried downloading the May report but it wouldn't open for me.  

I think we've been spoiled with all these instant updates. Others have complained about not getting any reports at all from the other publishing sites. Sure, I'd like to obsessively check my sales every half hour, but maybe I should just chill out and write what I want to write and publish when I want to publish and get paid 70% for it (35% where the 70% isn't available  ).


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Gertie, you know darn well rational thought isn't welcome in these boards. Go take your patience, and your calmness, and your...your...smelly face elsewhere!

David Dalglish


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

"While a low price and a good cover does sell books, ask yourself: are people buying the book because it's good, or because it's cheap? A cheap, crummy book isn't a bargain, and won't get you read, and won't win you fans, and won't get you repeat sales."

Agree. Cheap and crummy may sell you once, and earn you 35 cents. But for some of us, cheap, but not crummy, may be the only way to break out of the pack. I'm testing that out now with White Seed. Having published four books commercially, I think I know when a book is ready. And White Seed is ready. So it will remain 99 cents for August, then in September will go up to $2.99 or $3.99. And in August I'll be launching the first book in my Calling Crow series (formerly published by Putnam Berkley) for $0.99. That will be a one month special. And the second and third, and my book of Scifi stories, The Blue World and Other Stories. It's all good.

Paul Clayton

WHITE SEED: The Untold Story of the Lost Colony of Roanoke


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

callingcrow said:


> Agree. Cheap and crummy may sell you once, and earn you 35 cents. But for some of us, cheap, but not crummy, may be the only way to break out of the pack. I'm testing that out now with White Seed. Having published four books commercially, I think I know when a book is ready. And White Seed is ready. So it will remain 99 cents for August, then in September will go up to $2.99 or $3.99. And in August I'll be launching the first book in my Calling Crow series (formerly published by Putnam Berkley) for $0.99. That will be a one month special. And the second and third, and my book of Scifi stories, The Blue World and Other Stories. It's all good.
> 
> Paul Clayton


I think that's fine, to start out at 99 cents. It's a great way to get noticed. And it's not like it's costing you anything... you're making a little bit of money. Hopefully you'll get noticed and climb the charts. 

Vicki


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

There are times when I'm glad I'm not young, having climbed the ladder, slid down the chute and now dwell in the Forest of Arden.   

Ed Patterson


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Patrick L. Halliwell said:


> Maybe this constitutes some kind of disarmament program


I laughed.


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## zoewinters (Jun 18, 2009)

On the DTP forums a DTPadmin said they are seeing the complaints and they are working on improving it. They obviously didn't realize how important month-to-date reporting is to a lot of us. I find it really annoying and frustrating too, but Amazon seems to be really good about fixing things when they get enough complaints. I'm sure their email box has been flooded with this issue also. So they know how we feel about it and I'm pretty confident we'll get our month-to-date reporting back, and that they'll try to address other issues that are cropping up.

Z


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Agreed, Zoe.  This is the shakedown cruise and we have to expect some glitches, like my books not being available under the new rate, yet.  

Amazon has always responded positively to us before and I expect they will this time, too.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

That's true, and I've been on the Kindle since Novermber 18th 2007 and have seen it all.  

Ed Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Since my books are still in the "publishing" phase after opting in, I wonder if I'll be getting 70% on the sales I made today. 

Anybody "live" yet?


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

zoewinters said:


> On the DTP forums a DTPadmin said they are seeing the complaints and they are working on improving it. They obviously didn't realize how important month-to-date reporting is to a lot of us. I find it really annoying and frustrating too, but Amazon seems to be really good about fixing things when they get enough complaints. I'm sure their email box has been flooded with this issue also. So they know how we feel about it and I'm pretty confident we'll get our month-to-date reporting back, and that they'll try to address other issues that are cropping up.


They are aware of the complaints, and I was shocked to receive an actual phone call from the guys at DTP asking for my thoughts and other feedback on the change. They were VERY receptive and clearly interested in listening to feedback and improving the reports. They are reading the DTP feedback forums and listening.

I told them (among other things) that simply restoring the old month-to-date sales totals would go a LONG way towards removing 95% of the complaints and confusion, and my impression was that they are working on getting those back soon.

Unfortunately, due to technical complications with the new royalty rates and price-matching policy (where royalty rates could fluctuate from day to day), they said real-time royalty data isn't possible right now, only weekly reports. My suggestion was (a) put back the month-to-date unit sales, (b) put "June royalties through the week ending June 26," updated weekly, and (c) if possible, make the archive into daily sales instead of weekly sales -- that way we don't have weeks spanning across multiple months, we can always add daily numbers into weekly subtotals if we want, and it can help us track daily sales even if we're not up at 3 AM one day.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

That sounds good. Thanks for the advocacy. I've rejiggered everything to work with the weekly reports and the incremental reports. I also find them more accurate. So although I'm used to the month-to-date after 34 months, I'll roll with the reporting punches. 

Ed Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

There's a place to click on sales 6/27/10 through 7/1/10.  It looks more like the old report, so at least we can get numbers sold in real time updates.

It's right next to "weekly reports"


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Hey, guys - This thread seems to have had a lot of posting by experienced people, so I thought I'd go back and pick it up and ask here. I saw something on a blog the other day that said it was a violation of the Amazon DTP Agreement to divulge sales figures. Unable to believe it, I then went and printed out the Amazon DTP Agreement and looked for the information and this is what I found. Section 7 says that you agree not to divulge "Amazon Confidential Information" and then defines that as follows:

"* * * (3) any sales data relating to the sale of Digital Books or other information we provide or make available to you in connection with the Program."

I realize the way to find out for sure would be to ask Amazon DTP, but I'm still mulling this over myself. I take this to mean none of us should be saying, "I sold x copies today," or "I sold x copies since I raised my prices," or "I sold x copies last month." Am I wrong? It makes no sense to me that they are against such information getting out as surely knowing how well others are or are not doing might affect new authors joining the program, but there it is.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Since Jack has given us his sales figures, I'm sure it's okay to divulge our own. I think they mean total amazon sales, not an individual's sales. If we find out that Amazon has sold a million ebooks in the last 24 hours, we shouldn't divulge that.

That's just my humble opinion. I could be completely wrong.

Just reread it.

"* * * (3) any sales data relating to the sale of Digital Books or other information *we provide or make available to you in connection with the Program."*

I bolded what I think is the relevant wording. I don't know if that applies to our individual sales reports or overall Amazon reports.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I read it to mean that we shouldn't divulge our own sales or the content of our agreement.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I read it to mean that we shouldn't divulge our own sales or the content of our agreement.


I haven't anyway except in a general sense.

On the other hand, Jack has given us his sales figures. Karen McQuestion's sales figures have been published.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

ellenoc said:


> Hey, guys - This thread seems to have had a lot of posting by experienced people, so I thought I'd go back and pick it up and ask here. I saw something on a blog the other day that said it was a violation of the Amazon DTP Agreement to divulge sales figures. Unable to believe it, I then went and printed out the Amazon DTP Agreement and looked for the information and this is what I found. Section 7 says that you agree not to divulge "Amazon Confidential Information" and then defines that as follows:
> 
> "* * * (3) any sales data relating to the sale of Digital Books or other information we provide or make available to you in connection with the Program."
> 
> I realize the way to find out for sure would be to ask Amazon DTP, but I'm still mulling this over myself. I take this to mean none of us should be saying, "I sold x copies today," or "I sold x copies since I raised my prices," or "I sold x copies last month." Am I wrong? It makes no sense to me that they are against such information getting out as surely knowing how well others are or are not doing might affect new authors joining the program, but there it is.


That section also begins with prohibiting

"(a) issue any press release or make any other public disclosures regarding this Agreement or its terms; "

Whoops! That means by quoting that you can't quote or disclosed sales information, you've disclosed the terms of the agreement and are thus in violation of the agreement.

   

Ed Patterson
The line to the nut house forms behind me


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Whoops! That means by quoting that you can't quote or disclosed sales information, you've disclosed the terms of the agreement and are thus in violation of the agreement.


Cute. Since the confidentiality doesn't affect anything already publicly available and one can get to and read the agreement without actually publishing a book, I don't think that's the problem.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

ellenoc said:


> Cute. Since the confidentiality doesn't affect anything already publicly available and one can get to and read the agreement without actually publishing a book, I don't think that's the problem.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I hope people can continue to report individual sales. I really find that info inspiring.
Ann


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Only 23 today, 8 from Kindle. Up to 130 for the first 4 days.

Ed Patterson


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I think if posting sales figures were against our contract, someone would have gotten on Joe Konrath's case a long time ago.  He's always been open about his sales, posting pictures of his DTP dashboard and such.  And Amazon would have told him not to if that's what they meant by that clause.

Just my two cents worth.

Vicki


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

Wow, David Derrico, someone is actually LISTENING to authors? I have already cast Amazon as the best publisher in the history of the world, but now they go up to universal scale...

Scott


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I think if posting sales figures were against our contract, someone would have gotten on Joe Konrath's case a long time ago. He's always been open about his sales, posting pictures of his DTP dashboard and such. And Amazon would have told him not to if that's what they meant by that clause.
> 
> Just my two cents worth.
> 
> Vicki


But it's a brand new contract with new clauses and he didn't post a screenshot for last month, I believe. That's what makes me pause.

It would be an odd change though imo, after all, Konrath's posting of his sales has encouraged a lot of people to forsake pursuing book deals to self publish on Kindle.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Yes, but at the same time, Amazon may fear that a bunch of indie authors posting they have only say, five sales for the month, might convince others that the DTP isn't worth the time and effort. More likely, though, is that they worry that another big-name author like Konrath jumps ship but then ends up without anywhere near the same success.

Daivd Dalglish


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Well, the contract is only amended - most of it is the same old contract. The new stuff is tacked onto the end. 

Ed Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Those are pretty much standard clauses. If you're concerned about the clause, then just talk about your sales in general terms.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm not concerned about any of it. I just love to type endlessly on any subject. Let's talk about inflation in Namibia.  

Ed Patterson


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I'm not concerned about any of it. I just love to type endlessly on any subject. Let's talk about inflation in Namibia.
> 
> Ed Patterson


You know, when I woke up this morning, I said to myself, "Gee, I wish I could do something about inflation in Namibia." Then i decided to do something about breakfast instead.


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## SpearsII (Jan 16, 2010)

This is a very interesting topic.  When my wife's book was first on kindle we priced it for $.99. After a couple of months of I raised it to a $1.99 in anticipation of the moving to a 2.99$ price and higher royalties. It cut our sale almost directly in half. July first I again raised the price to $2.99 and I was expecting maybe another drop in sales. So far that that has not happened. Its very early in the month still but we are selling at about the same pace as last month. We are still selling at about half the sales of our $.99 price and getting 70% on 2.99. I am starting to believe that the arguments for $.99 ebooks aren't as strong as I first thought them to be. Its hard to say for sure thought and each author has to follow his own pricing path, but I think there is something to $2.99. We have a paperback copy of the book which also is a factor I think. When most publishers price kindle edition of their paperbacks at $9.99, I think it makes ours looks like a paperback with a kindle edition at a bargain price. I of course can't really know what readers are thinking so it is all a bit of speculation on my part, but I do know moving to $2.99 has not been the kiss of death for our sales.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

A Namibian breakfast is less than $ .99. In fact, tht's about a month's sllary.

Ed Patterson


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

SpearsII said:


> This is a very interesting topic. When my wife's book was first on kindle we priced it for $.99. After a couple of months of I raised it to a $1.99 in anticipation of the moving to a 2.99$ price and higher royalties. It cut our sale almost directly in half. July first I again raised the price to $2.99 and I was expecting maybe another drop in sales. So far that that has not happened. Its very early in the month still but we are selling at about the same pace as last month. We are still selling at about half the sales of our $.99 price and getting 70% on 2.99.


That's great news &#8230; earning 6x the royalties on 1/2 the sales will triple your income.

I know there's a part of us that wants the maximum number of readers &#8230; but, I dunno, I do get more of a warm and fuzzy feeling from someone who thought my book was worth _paying_ for, as opposed to someone who might have downloaded it for free. And I feel GREAT when readers write to me and say my book is worth more than the 99 cents they paid. So, it does feel nice when readers start paying $2.99 for your books. Now, they want to read your books because the writing looks good -- not just because they're SO cheap they don't have much to lose.

And, with Amazon giving us a HUGE incentive to pick that price point, that's the cherry on top. *I think Amazon has very good reasons for picking the range they have*, and I think the $2.99 - $9.99 range is good for readers, authors, and the future of e-books. I think books at the low end of that range are still a tremendous value for readers, while providing authors a chance to maybe improve their books through hiring cover artists or editors or formatters &#8230; and to improve their writing by earning enough to continue to write more books. Win-win in my book.

_Disclaimer: these are just my own opinions, and I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to price their books._


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Following up on what you said, David, I think someone who bought the book at $2.99 is more likely to read it than if they paid $.99.  I've got a tone of free and 99 centers in my TBR that I may or may not get to.  

So if your goal is money, price it at $2.99.  If your goal is readers, price it at $2.99.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I've got 8 books (DTBs) on my shelf, bought at $200.00 each (one at $ 180.00 and 2 at $ 220.00) that I haven't read yet. But on the shelf is better than not, for me. I'll read 'em. I have one of them going on my bedstand now (each is over 1,000 pages each so it might take time). Damn I wish they were $ .99 and on the Kindle.  

Edward C. Patterson


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2010)

I raised my price to $2.99 last month as an experiment and sales remained the same. However, once the 70% option kicked in sales died completely. Nothing for 5 days now - which is the biggest drought I've had since publishing last September.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

derekprior said:


> I raised my price to $2.99 last month as an experiment and sales remained the same. However, once the 70% option kicked in sales died completely. Nothing for 5 days now - which is the biggest drought I've had since publishing last September.


I really think there was a general holiday slump. I noticed a slump on blog traffic and on my eHow articles as well. (Hey, there were even fewer people at the fireworks last night - although there was no dearth of wild, illegal amateur fireworks shows all around.)

Camille


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

It's so hard to tell with the new reporting system. So far, this week's report looks pretty normal, but I'm waiting for a full week with everything live and in place.


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## David Derrico (Nov 18, 2009)

derekprior said:


> I raised my price to $2.99 last month as an experiment and sales remained the same. However, once the 70% option kicked in sales died completely. Nothing for 5 days now - which is the biggest drought I've had since publishing last September.


Now that is just bizarre.

I do think it's important to take a breath and give it a little time to see the real numbers. The holiday weekend could be doing all kinds of things to sales, so it might take a couple weeks or a month to get a really solid idea.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2010)

derekprior said:


> I raised my price to $2.99 last month as an experiment and sales remained the same. However, once the 70% option kicked in sales died completely. Nothing for 5 days now - which is the biggest drought I've had since publishing last September.


Yeah, things have been really slow. I'm hoping it has to do with the holiday, though I also feel like my efforts to get the word out are stagnating. That said, things have seemed kind of dead around here lately too.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

No new sales since I changed the price, but I sold, um, three last month and I am used to long periods with none.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2010)

R. Reed said:


> No new sales since I changed the price, but I sold, um, three last month and I am used to long periods with none.


I'd recommend expanding on that product description. Just a couple lines? Give us a sense of what the book feels like, describe it a little so reader's will know if it fits in with their tastes. Is it action? humor? I'm not sure.


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## Cristian YoungMiller (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks everyone for this blog. It was extremely helpful for me when I was trying to decide on a price for my latest book *'The First Day After Life'*. What I decided to do was create 2 versions of my book. That way I didn't have to give a way the book for 35 cents each. That would be hard to do for me since my other books have a premium price.

So what I did was I created 1 version of the book that only included part 1 of the book. I charged 99 cents for that on Kindle. I then made the complete version of the book $3.99. I just released the book today so I don't know how effective that strategy will be. But the idea did come out of reading pages and pages of this blog. So thanks again everyone.


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