# Redacted



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

************

Post redacted. Sorry. It was a good one...


----------



## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Amazon sends out recommendation emails based on sales on a roughly 2-week cycle. The engine gets tickled based on sales (or possibly rank but it works out about the same - I've definitely seen what I think is a rank threshold where I can usually tell if a title is still eligible or not) and seems to smooth out spikes by looking at an average over X number of days. Not all titles are on a Monday schedule, but Steel Magnolia's are. And no, I'm not going to share what I think that rank threshold is because I need to keep a few bottles of secret sauce on my shelf  Others with enough eligible titles, though, should be able to figure it out since it really isn't wizardry or rocket science but very simple statistical analysis.


Do you know any more about these emails? Not how one qualifies for them, but who they go to and what they include? Are there ten books, one book, etc. As someone who buys a lot of books on Kindle,I'm wondering if I've ever gotten one.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Are you signed up to receive emails?
I know I am and get the recommended ones.

Now at Phoenix,  I am  always getting your box sets recommended to me.  In emails and on the website.    
But then Amazon tends to recommend kboarders to me more than other authors.


----------



## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Thank you for that information. That's really helpful!


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Hmmm ... interesting. Thank you for sharing this info, Phoenix.


----------



## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Very interesting and thank you Phoenix for sharing.


----------



## LifesHumor (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks for the information.

I went to Amazon yesterday, and they asked if I wanted to sign up for an Amazon Delivers Romance newsletter for new releases.


----------



## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for sharing. I've heard others mention that the more you sell (maintain ranking over a period of time) the more Amazon returns the love.

But you managed to explain it in a way that makes sense to me. Thanks!


----------



## Kristy Tate (Apr 24, 2012)

I've had friends tell me that they received an email blast from Amazon with my book along with other like-minded books in it. I think one reason may be that they (my friends) had bought my book. I wish I knew more than that.


----------



## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

As far as I can see, there are two types of emails:

The mass ones for each genre. Do you get notified if you're in this? I have no idea. I'm waaaaayyyyyy too small fry to ever be included in any of those.

Then there are the ones that are a lot more small scale and are based on recent visits. This is how Amazon is always recommending my own books to me because I don't actually have a valid Amazon account, because I never buy anything there. But this is obviously triggered by page visits. I think you can guess how to get more of those sent out to people. Even though this is much smaller scale, it's something you can actually be proactive in.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

************


----------



## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Thanks for the answers, Phoenix and others. I just looked at my account marketing email preferences for Amazon and kindle books was not checked. Do you think that's what would trigger receiving these sorts of emails?

I ask simply because that seems to be the easiest way to see this for myself.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

************


----------



## Kevin Lee Swaim (May 30, 2014)

So, let me get this straight.

Step 1. Sell a lot.

Step 2. You might get sent out in an email blast that will help you sell a lot.


Uhm, Yeah, I'm still working on Step 1....


----------



## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Kevin Lee Swaim said:


> So, let me get this straight.
> 
> Step 1. Sell a lot.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think that's about how it works. lol


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

************


----------



## Joseph J Bailey (Jun 28, 2013)

Nice observation and thanks for sharing!


----------



## Mike Dennis (Apr 26, 2010)

Hasn't it always been known that if you sell a lot of books, Amazon takes over and promotes you internally, thereby selling even more books? If you're selling hundreds of books a day, Amazon would only be too happy to give you a boost.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Mike Dennis said:


> Hasn't it always been known that if you sell a lot of books, Amazon takes over and promotes you internally, thereby selling even more books? If you're selling hundreds of books a day, Amazon would only be too happy to give you a boost.


Sure, but now we know something more specific: Amazon looks at the data across regular two-week periods, so you need to shape your sales to stay high a fortnight at a time.

It looks from Phoenix's graph that averaging about 70 sales/day is enough to trigger inclusion in an email. I can report that averaging 20 sales/day is not. Alas.


----------



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Mondays, as far as I can tell. That's when I always gets reports that my book is in emails and my sales spike. Every other Monday for me, usually, depending on how much my various books are selling.


----------



## G. Henkel (Jan 12, 2010)

Not wanting to be the party pooper here, but aside from an interesting read, your original post doesn't really contain any actionable information—or am I missing something?


----------



## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Nothing actionable, just informative. 

Sell more and you will be featured more, and sell more... Repeat.


----------



## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for the helpful insight. Too bad my sales are spread across 12 books. (Note to self: write 1 book to rule them all...at least for a 2-week cycle)


----------



## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

the publisher and I are running a $0.99 sale for Immortal which started on 5/7 and goes to 5/31. BookBub isn't until 5/27, but I've been running promos off-and-on from the 7th forward. My biggest day in terms of sales rank, so far, has been 5/18, which was a day _after_ one of the promos. It was also the day after a podcast interview with me went live. I had attributed the bump in rank to the things that happened on the 17th, but... 5/18 was a Monday.

So, maybe?


----------



## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

Guido Henkel said:


> Not wanting to be the party pooper here, but aside from an interesting read, your original post doesn't really contain any actionable information--or am I missing something?


 the actionable part is to keep your sales high and even- try to eliminate huge spikes and valleys, which means (as long as you are selling enough) spreading out promos rather than stacking them on the same day.


----------



## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

dkgould said:


> the actionable part is to keep your sales high and even- try to eliminate huge spikes and valleys,


I'm going to just eliminate the valleys - I'm fine with the spikes


----------



## N.D. Taylor (Jun 17, 2014)

Amazon helped us. Based on your 2 week cycle hypothesis, we released our science fiction novel on the 23rd. 








Minimal promo, maybe $1 a day on FB ads and I saw a few lower sales on the days I cut the ad off and let the book promote itself. Not much. My ads ran out yesterday while I was in a school review session and I forgot to renew them.

Hopefully we made threshold, we've been sitting between #8-12,000 for the past couple days. Not as many sales as we were spoiled on, but we have our fingers crossed that it doesn't end. We've never had a book sell like this. 
But the spike came EXACTLY after two weeks, and we wept all day because we had no clue. No idea. We thought someone on a blog or a website promoted us without saying. Now that I've read this thread, it makes sense.

So you don't need to sell in the hundred book range. Amazon will help you if you just sell consistently.


----------



## Guest (May 21, 2015)

Guido Henkel said:


> Not wanting to be the party pooper here, but aside from an interesting read, your original post doesn't really contain any actionable information--or am I missing something?


She's just pointing out that there is an actual reason for certain sudden spikes that has nothing to do with gremlins or black magic. Folks sometimes get a little crazy trying to figure out a one or two day spike and think there is something mysterious going on. It's just Amazon doing their thing.


----------



## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

There are some actions you can take to help your chances.

One of the ways I help cement my Also-Boughts is to promote the newer books in my genre. Granted, it's a nice thing to do regardless, but if you use YASIV or a google search (do a search of your ASIN site:amazon.com) you can see the books where YOUR book is in the first row of Also Boughts. Therefore, promoting THAT book's link on your social media #1 looks great to readers, but does have the added the benefit of giving them something other than talking about yourself, but yet, your book is still there. 

Another way is to make sure your book is at least in one category you can chart on as either a Hot New Release or Bestseller. There are a TON of lists out there on Amazon that only take a few sales to chart on. Also, consider a preorder, preorders are eligible for special email blasts (I've received New from Elizabeth Ann West to my own email account), so if you have a readership you can get to say buy your preorder on one specific day, you can bump your ranking and hopefully trigger an email alert.

I have also noticed that Amazon takes into consideration YOUR past customers. If a reader downloads a free book for example, he or she is classified as a customer of yours. Amazon emailed people who had downloaded Cancelled years ago when I released Horses, people I didn't tell about The Trouble with Horses, that's how they knew I had published a new book.

Basically, everything you do to get people to go to your Amazon book page, through blog posts, discussions, social media, advertising, increases the chances that Amazon is going to pick up some slack and help remind that potential customer you have a product they might want.


----------



## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Elizabeth,
I always love how YASIV spawns all of those connections with my book sitting like a spider in the middle of the web, but, aside from my own books pointing to each other, all of the arrows lead away and not to my book.   So doesn't that tell me what books my books are leading readers to instead of what books mine is showing up in? (Does that make sense? I got a little tangled there.)


----------



## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I like to use the google method.

So you go to google.com and put in the ASIN and site:amazon.com. For The Blood We Spill I got these results (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=B00LBLMZVY+site:amazon.com)

I had to scroll down, and part of the problem is this is an older book (2014), but I DID find that on Page 6 of this book, http://www.amazon.com/Death-Bruce-Kohler-Short-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B004QOAVSW your book is in the Also Boughts.

And unfortunately, this is a way you can learn if the Zon's recommendation system is NOT working for you and work on ways to fix that, either with a sale advertising etc. , that will ALWAYS shuffle your also boughts. I got lucky when I released A Spring Sentiment because Death Comes to Pemberley the miniseries came out on TV. Guess who's book was in the first page of Also Boughts? Mine.

The other thing about using the google method is it gives you # of results. In this case, 40. Your permafree title has 186 results (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=B004TMPMJE+site:amazon.com)

I had to go through a few pages of results, but if you look on this book, your book is in "What other items do customers buy after viewing this item? section http://www.amazon.com/Betsys-Sweet-Revenge-Pin-Up-Princess-ebook/dp/B00OJXRK9I


----------



## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks, Elizabeth!  So helpful!!


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

************


----------



## TestingEnabled (May 14, 2015)

This might happen with some freebies, too. I've gotten spikes on freebies I can't really explain as I wasn't really promoting them at the time. Just suddenly there's a spike, not quite BookBub numbers but a good spike still. I'm not saying for sure, but because you're pointing it out, I'm not just wondering if that's the case. Otherwise, they're just random really good days.


----------



## lisamaliga (Oct 28, 2010)

There aren't any secrets here.
You know that old saying about the rich getting richer...


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

************


----------



## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Your time wasn't wasted. I know a lot of us--including me--are very grateful. It's definitely made me think about the potential and how I can use it. So, thank you! 

(I think sometimes people forget that we're not all at the same knowledge level or whatever.)


----------



## TaxationIsTheft (Apr 15, 2015)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I like to use the google method.
> 
> So you go to google.com and put in the ASIN and site:amazon.com.


Thank you for this little tip. I was actually clicking on titles in my also boughts to see if I was appearing in their's and figured I was missing something. I got some fascinating results!

Also, Phoenix, thanks for sharing this info. I'm still trying to figure out what Amazon's cadence is regarding emails, but I'd had a sudden, HUGE spike one Tuesday about three weeks after my release date. I figured I'd finally started getting some "also-bought juice," but wondered about emails (that particular Tuesday was also a big romance release day with some big name authors having new books come out). This might be a stupid question, but hey, we're all still learning here, but does Amazon let you know when your book has been featured in an email blast? Or do you just have to hope someone you know (or you) gets an email with your book in it and tells you?


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> My apologies if the _why_ was already common knowledge. I didn't think I'd ever seen it discussed elsewhere in such granular terms, but it seems a lot of you already had a good handle on how this all works. I'll refrain from sharing such in the future if it's nothing more than a waste of time for us all.


Please ignore the stuff and nonsense and keep sharing, Phoenix. I think most of us who've been around a while know you're one of a handful of people who've generated almost all the concrete info indie writers have about how Amazon works.


----------



## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Good points, Elizabeth!
> 
> You can also further refine your Google search to make it easier to catch just the alsobots by searching:
> 
> ...


Do I keep the brackets, Phoenix? 
I second the gratitude about your having started this thread. HUGELY helpful to me. THANK YOU!


----------



## N.D. Taylor (Jun 17, 2014)

Your time is NOT wasted and it certainly helped me. We've spent weeks wondering how we got a spike and how to recreate it. Now you've my co-author and me information we didn't have before. I appreciate it immensely and am glad you shared this with us.


----------



## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Donna White Glaser said:


> Do I keep the brackets, Phoenix?


You don't need the brackets.

And I'll add my thanks to Phoenix (and Elizabeth). Again, not to pile on Guido, but this is valuable information which *is* actionable. It means that paying attention to the two week blocks and the timing of your promotions to coincide and trying to create a smooth volume chart rather than spiking all will increase your chances of success. That's definitely actionable, it's just not a step by step with exactly what to do.


----------



## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

edwardgtalbot said:


> You don't need the brackets.


Thanks!


----------



## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks for the helpful information Phoenix.

It is ironically a bit frustrating when we have sales coming from where/how we don't know. I just realized one of my books was nearing the end of its current Select enrollment and I had neglected to use any of the promotion tools (countdown or 5 free days) we are allowed. So I set up a countdown with no promotions expecting no results and thinking I'd cancel it after a couple of days and go back to full price.

But to my surprise, the book is selling with no promotion from me so I'm wondering if Amazon sends out emails to promote its Countdown program.

Philip


----------



## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Thank you. This is really helpful information. It explains why I get a spike on Mondays after a week of ads sometimes.


----------



## My Dog&#039;s Servant (Jun 2, 2013)

I get a number of these Amazon emails--romance, mystery, sf/fantasy, mixed--but they increasingly are loaded with titles from Amazon imprints.  Romance one I received in this morning's email is led by a Nora Roberts title, but everything else shown is Montlake.  That's not to say I don't get ones with indie recommendations--got one with one of Yoda's titles included not too long ago--but these days they really do seem to be loaded with Zon imprints.....  Or am I just not receiving all of them?


----------



## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't find the Yasiv method OR the Google method to be super great for finding incoming also boughts. 

They appear to have the same limitation in being able to crawl the sites. I get the same books, and it's only a tiny percent of the actual books. I can click around and find a lot more incoming also boughts on Amazon manually by going down related book rabbit holes, plus looking at my own books. Neither method shows all the books in my own series, even though all the books in the series have all the other books as also boughts.


----------



## mickeywrites981 (May 9, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up!!


----------



## My Dog&#039;s Servant (Jun 2, 2013)

I should add that I do occasionally get an email that seems specifically tailored to a recent search/purchase.  But these messages don't seem to be regular or even the bulk of what I do receive.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Well now, I personally think that Phoenix should take a little bit of her time and write Vet Tales 2.    
  Love you Phoenix.


----------



## Mike Dennis (Apr 26, 2010)

Becca Mills said:


> Sure, but now we know something more specific: Amazon looks at the data across regular two-week periods, so you need to shape your sales to stay high a fortnight at a time.
> 
> It looks from Phoenix's graph that averaging about 70 sales/day is enough to trigger inclusion in an email. I can report that averaging 20 sales/day is not. Alas.


Repsectfully, Becca, "shaping your sales to stay high" isn't the real trick here. It's getting them to those lofty heights to begin with, and therein lies the true rub. If one of my titles was selling 70 books a day, I'd be ecstatic. Instead, I'm sweating out each individual sale and I don't think I'm alone here. The lines on my KDP sales dashboard are measured in increments of one, not hundreds. High sales simply beget more high sales, thanks to Amazon's internal promotion.


----------



## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> Sure, but now we know something more specific: Amazon looks at the data across regular two-week periods, so you need to shape your sales to stay high a fortnight at a time.
> 
> It looks from Phoenix's graph that averaging about 70 sales/day is enough to trigger inclusion in an email. I can report that averaging 20 sales/day is not. Alas.


My accidental promotion month is following this approach by--if you can't guess--accident. It may even be working.


----------



## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> I'll refrain from sharing such in the future if it's nothing more than a waste of time for us all.


Not a waste of time. Some of us have even bookmarked this thread.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Mike Dennis said:


> Repsectfully, Becca, "shaping your sales to stay high" isn't the real trick here. It's getting them to those lofty heights to begin with, and therein lies the true rub. If one of my titles was selling 70 books a day, I'd be ecstatic. Instead, I'm sweating out each individual sale and I don't think I'm alone here. The lines on my KDP sales dashboard are measured in increments of one, not hundreds. High sales simply beget more high sales, thanks to Amazon's internal promotion.


I get it, Mike. Hey, I'm the person who went a couple years making nothing because all I had was one free book to my name ... having set it free because it sold zero. My second book is selling, but not enough to prompt Amazon to promote it -- no biweekly sales spikes, here. Nevertheless, I think the idea is to gather knowledge, even if it doesn't apply to you now, so that when one of your books does get some traction, you're prepared to maximize it. That might mean spacing out promotions, or whatever. I won't devote a lot of time to thinking about it now, since it doesn't apply to me, but I'll sure as heck come back to this thread if I ever find myself selling enough for it to matter.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Well now, I personally think that Phoenix should take a little bit of her time and write Vet Tales 2.
> Love you Phoenix.


Sigh. One day  And thank you for stalking our box sets enough that Amazon keeps throwing them at you!


----------



## caleemlee (Aug 5, 2011)

Hi Phoenix-

I love it when you share algo stuff!  Any ideas if price plays into the two week sales window? IE- if we drop the price for a few days, it spikes sales and then it continues to sell at original point?  I've seen this happen in our reports, but hadn't guessed the pattern.  Thank you for sharing!


----------



## Midnight Whimsy (Jun 25, 2013)

Great info, Phoenix, thanks for sharing. I went to check my inbox and discovered that Amazon recommends one of my books to me every Wednesday -- I hadn't realized it was so regular! It's probably mostly because I refresh my book page several times a day though, haha.

M.W


----------



## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Phoenix knows her stuff.

We've played this game with Amazon for years. 

Our ranking threshold for dystopian is about 4800, give or take. I know if a title can hold that rank for about two days, Amazon will start helping us promote. In action/adventure, it takes a rank of about 1200.

So we do our marketing with that goal in mind. Want actionable items?

We pop social media first, then the banners on selected websites. If that doesn't get us there, we have a few smaller sites to bolster, like BKnights and others. Lately, a quick $20 Facebook PPC ad has helped more than any other.

If the book still isn't hitting it's mark, then we go with Google display ads (Not PPC) and more FB PPC.

The key is timing, spread, and pace.

Amazon is like any other retailer - they go with momentum.

For years, I and others have been posting that Amazon is the most powerful book marketing engine on the planet. I always advise new authors to take every advantage they offer, manipulate everything in your power. You'll sell more books, and it's all for free.


----------



## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

AubreyGross said:


> This might be a stupid question, but hey, we're all still learning here, but does Amazon let you know when your book has been featured in an email blast?


No, you just watch for the signs, until you're on a semi-predictable schedule.



Donna White Glaser said:


> I always love how YASIV spawns all of those connections with my book sitting like a spider in the middle of the web, but, aside from my own books pointing to each other, all of the arrows lead away and not to my book.  So doesn't that tell me what books my books are leading readers to instead of what books mine is showing up in?


I have the most success with going to my author page and checking the "Customers Also Bought Items By" column. When I select those authors' names and click through to their pages, my books are consistently in their books' also boughts. Yasiv, while interesting, only catches a small number of the books linking back to me.


----------



## TestingEnabled (May 14, 2015)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Phoenix knows her stuff.
> 
> We've played this game with Amazon for years.
> 
> ...


If anyone else doesn't notice, this is absolute gold. Thanks, Joe! And thank you, Phoenix!


----------



## Sally C (Mar 31, 2011)

This is really interesting and valuable info, Phoenix, thanks so much for sharing!


----------



## WHDean (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks for sharing, Phoenix (and Joe). 

I have a question for both of you that follows up on a question I posed in the other thread about earnings. I was concerned there that a book that reaches rank by discounting could still earn much less than a lower-ranked book at a constant (higher) price. The intuitive reason for this is that a book that rises at a discounted price will fall just as quickly when the price goes up. For such a book to hold rank once the price rises (and hence outperform a lower-ranked book with a constant price) some other factor has to come into play. I suggested in the other thread that (in short) price sensitivity could be that “x factor” if price sensitivity decreases as a book increases in rank. In the simplest terms, this “x factor” is that consumers are willing to pay more for a higher-ranked book, so discounting to reach rank isn’t self-defeating.  

Now here’s my question. Are you suggesting that the “x factor” is not decreased price sensitivity but the marketing push from Amazon that kicks in once a book reaches a certain rank? If so, I’m not going to ask you for the exact rank. My question, rather, is whether you’ve found that the losses incurred from discounting to achieve rank are made up for by the marketing push you get from Amazon for passing a certain rank threshold? Of course, this probably wouldn’t speak to the question of whether indie books earn more than trad books of comparable rank. But that’s only a side issue. The real question is whether there’s a net gain in discounting to achieve a high rank because the Amazon push earns more than rank alone would suggest.


----------



## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

WHDean said:


> Thanks for sharing, Phoenix (and Joe).
> 
> I have a question for both of you that follows up on a question I posed in the other thread about earnings. I was concerned there that a book that reaches rank by discounting could still earn much less than a lower-ranked book at a constant (higher) price. The intuitive reason for this is that a book that rises at a discounted price will fall just as quickly when the price goes up. For such a book to hold rank once the price rises (and hence outperform a lower-ranked book with a constant price) some other factor has to come into play. I suggested in the other thread that (in short) price sensitivity could be that "x factor" if price sensitivity decreases as a book increases in rank. In the simplest terms, this "x factor" is that consumers are willing to pay more for a higher-ranked book, so discounting to reach rank isn't self-defeating.
> 
> Now here's my question. Are you suggesting that the "x factor" is not decreased price sensitivity but the marketing push from Amazon that kicks in once a book reaches a certain rank? If so, I'm not going to ask you for the exact rank. My question, rather, is whether you've found that the losses incurred from discounting to achieve rank are made up for by the marketing push you get from Amazon for passing a certain rank threshold? Of course, this probably wouldn't speak to the question of whether indie books earn more than trad books of comparable rank. But that's only a side issue. The real question is whether there's a net gain in discounting to achieve a high rank because the Amazon push earns more than rank alone would suggest.


This is a volatile question. I'm not either Phoenix or Joe, but my own experience with pricing has been that the fewer-copies-at-higher-price question is only a good one if you're talking about a book that actually moves a decent number of copies per day. I have had a publisher overprice my books into oblivion, and I know I'm not alone. I've also found I sold more copies of books at higher prices than at lower prices. But being overpriced to oblivion meant sticking with a $9.99 price point when the market expected $5.99, while selling more copies at a higher price meant going from $0.99 to $2.99.


----------



## Wolfpack (Jun 20, 2013)

This is an outstanding thread. Thanks for sharing Phoenix and Joe.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Our ranking threshold for dystopian is about 4800, give or take. I know if a title can hold that rank for about two days, Amazon will start helping us promote. In action/adventure, it takes a rank of about 1200.


So there are different thresholds for different genres. This makes perfect sense, since the emails I get from Amazon are genre-based.


----------



## Mike Dennis (Apr 26, 2010)

Becca Mills said:


> I get it, Mike. Hey, I'm the person who went a couple years making nothing because all I had was one free book to my name ... having set it free because it sold zero. My second book is selling, but not enough to prompt Amazon to promote it -- no biweekly sales spikes, here. Nevertheless, I think the idea is to gather knowledge, even if it doesn't apply to you now, so that when one of your books does get some traction, you're prepared to maximize it. That might mean spacing out promotions, or whatever. I won't devote a lot of time to thinking about it now, since it doesn't apply to me, but I'll sure as heck come back to this thread if I ever find myself selling enough for it to matter.


Now that you put it that way, I see you're right, Becca. It's not necessarily what we're doing now, but should the occasion arise (and I DO hope it will) that I'm selling a lot of books, I'll know how to get the most out of any promos Amazon might see fit to give me.


----------



## TaxationIsTheft (Apr 15, 2015)

Carol (was Dara) said:


> No, you just watch for the signs, until you're on a semi-predictable schedule.
> 
> I have the most success with going to my author page and checking the "Customers Also Bought Items By" column. When I select those authors' names and click through to their pages, my books are consistently in their books' also boughts. Yasiv, while interesting, only catches a small number of the books linking back to me.


That's what I was afraid of. 

I found the same thing with YASIV, too. The number of results it gave me versus the number of books where mine is also an also bought was way low.


----------



## R. M. Webb (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm also adding my thanks to Phoenix for the original post and for all those who've chimed in with more information. I'm not yet playing the same game you guys are, but I fully intend to join you. This information helps so much as I ready myself to step up and play with the big boys. Thank you for taking the time to share.


----------



## Thisiswhywecan&#039;thavenicethings (May 3, 2013)

Every time I see a post from Phoenix (and from Joe) I find something to add to my business plan. Big smoochies to them for sharing!


----------



## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> As far as I can see, there are two types of emails:
> 
> The mass ones for each genre. Do you get notified if you're in this? I have no idea. I'm waaaaayyyyyy too small fry to ever be included in any of those.
> 
> Then there are the ones that are a lot more small scale and are based on recent visits. This is how Amazon is always recommending my own books to me because I don't actually have a valid Amazon account, because I never buy anything there. But this is obviously triggered by page visits. I think you can guess how to get more of those sent out to people. Even though this is much smaller scale, it's something you can actually be proactive in.


I'm sure there's a third type - emails of new books from authors you've 5-starred before, even if it's a lonngggg time (even years) since you reviewed their book and even if you've only been to any of their book pages a couple of times.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

A.A said:


> I'm sure there's a third type - emails of new books from authors you've 5-starred before, even if it's a lonngggg time (even years) since you reviewed their book and even if you've only been to any of their book pages a couple of times.


Amazingly enough, no. I have never gotten an email based on my reviews.


----------



## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Our ranking threshold for dystopian is about 4800, give or take. I know if a title can hold that rank for about two days, Amazon will start helping us promote. In action/adventure, it takes a rank of about 1200.


This is really interesting! Anyone with experience in contemporary romance know what it takes to get some Amazon love? 
Thanks for starting this thread, Pheonix, I've learned so much. And to everyone who chimed in with even more information, you guys are the best!


----------



## bang on the drum (Nov 2, 2015)

Bumping this excellent thread with a question I fully expected to find answered here:

Is numerical rank all that matters? Is the KU-vs-sale constitution of that rank irrelevant to Amazon? 

I have books with decent ranks solely from KU reads, and almost no sales. Will those books be treated the same as equally ranking books that achieved their ranks through sales?


----------



## bendanarama (Jul 25, 2015)

PhoenixS said:


> Yep, that first step's the doozy
> 
> Here's a peek at the cycle from one of our older boxes where the spikes from the mails show up nice and clear. Not all of the spikes are this easy to spot, but many times they are. Especially for titles selling consistently otherwise with no other promo interfering.


Your chart. I ENVY IT.


----------



## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

*************


----------



## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Phoenix.

Thank you so much for this post. Read all four pages and gleaned enough helpful info to help me craft a low budget marketing strategy. 

Please don't stop sharing.


----------



## JessieVerona (May 10, 2013)

I'll second that! I always learn something when Phoenix posts!


----------



## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you so much for this.
I had a spike on a Monday the first week of November and was wondering about it. Your explanation helps me understand to a degree. I was putting it down to readers "filling up their Kindles for the week" on Mondays. it makes more sense that my book's performance over the previous two weeks kicked off an email that went out on Monday. (I don't get those emails--I'll have to check my account settings.)

I have seen a subtle shift in buying patterns over the last few months from the bigger sales days being Fri/Sat/Sun to Sun/Mon/Tue, and it may even just be more like Mon/Tue. I was wondering about it, but as I said, just put it down to a slight change in buying patterns on the part of readers instead of something Amazon might or might not be doing.

I'm now thinking I need to track each day's pattern (instead of just monthly totals as I do now) with an eye toward which day to use for new releases and which day(s) are better for promo. I had previously used Thursday when possible to "prime" readers for buying on Th/Fri/Sat. I thought people might be looking for entertainment options like new books on those days.

You've encouraged me to look more closely at the daily data and revise my thinking. I appreciate  that.


----------

