# A place for those of us NOT selling over 1,000 books a month ;)



## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

With all the talk this week of how many here are selling over 1,000 books per month (for some, many times that number--congrats to all, btw!) I thought it would be fitting to have a place for all the rest of us who are NOT selling that many. I'm not talking about new authors who are just getting started, but about authors (like me) who been around a few years, have a bunch of positive Amazon and Goodreads reviews, have websites, facebooks pages, and twitter accounts promoting our work, and even some dedicated "fans" who promote for us, and yet are not selling thousands of books per month. 

So, what are we doing wrong? Or should it be, what can we do better?
If our books are receiving nearly unanimous positive reviews (telling us we have a decent product), what else can we do to make them sell better?
Is it really a matter of genre? If we are NOT writing paranormal romance (or one of the other "hot" genres right now) is there any hope of us achieving such huge sales?

Speaking now purely for myself, I have sold just over 2,500 copies of my one book in the past 12 months (combined ebook and paperback). That's averaging over 200 books per month, which I used to think was pretty decent for a first time "hobby" writer. Then I see how many people are selling 5 to 10 times that number and I have to step back and reevaluate what I'm doing.

So, anyone else here in the same boat and feeling a bit frustrated? 
Any of the huge sellers here care to share some sage advice to us so-so sellers?


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi Joseph,

I know how you feel.

I've been writing (and selling) fiction since 1998.  I sold my first story to an ezine in 1998.  I've sold dozens of stories and poems since then.  I'm the author of three novels, one of them traditionally published.  I've been reviewed in big places such as Library Journal, Booklist, and Publishers Weekly.  I sell all right -- last month I sold 400+ ebooks, and I've sold 50-something so far in January (it's currently Jan 4 in the afternoon).

Firefly Island has 21 Amazon reviews averaging 4.7 stars.  Flaming Dove has 19 Amazon reviews, and averages about 4.5 stars.  So I get good reviews, but I'm not yet selling thousands of books a month.

Sometimes I've toyed with the idea of writing Young Adult Paranormal Romance.  I might sell more that way, maybe even a LOT more.  But... I love epic fantasy too much.  I love swords, crossbows, dragons, wizards, monsters.  I love the adventure and romance of it all.  So I keep writing epic fantasy, even if it's not a "hot" genre, and I'll keep writing it.  I don't want to sell out.  I write what I love.

I do only have standalone novels out there.  I'm currently working on an epic fantasy series -- there will be at least three books, probably more.  I'm hoping that with a series out there, I too will join the 1k-a-month club.  In fact, I intend to.

Daniel


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## julieannfelicity (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm in the same boat ... not frustrated ... rather discouraged.  

I'm hoping (fingers & toes crossed) I can get my other books done, so I can see if I can achieve success like the others.

I would say 200 books a month is wicked pissa (in my lovely Boston accent)!  I'm happy if I can sell 10 a month.


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## Valmore Daniels (Jul 12, 2010)

FWIW, I think there are *a lot * of authors on KB that should be in the 1k club.


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## James Everington (Dec 25, 2010)

I'd agree, 200 a month sounds okay to me - but I'm sure it's like a pay increase: as soon as you reach a certain number it seems to small...


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## Debra L Martin (Apr 8, 2010)

Hi Joe,

I'll join your club.  Not selling thousands of copies either.  I am having my covers tweaked, but the new ones are ready yet.

Funny thing is, I'm mostly known for my blog where I promote other indie authors with interviews, guest spots and panel discussions.  I've even started doing reviews, but the books aren't all indie just for some variety.

So, when people see my name - they see a blogger and a reviewer and not so much a writer.  Funny thing is I started the blog to spread the word about the books, but it has morphed into something totally different.  

Maybe when Dave and I get our next book out there, we'll see better sales.  At least that's the plan.

Deb


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

I prolly don't count yet. I've amassed pub credits the traditional way in magazines and journals as well as commercial nonfic while I wrote what I loved in the way of novels. I've been writing for years. I published my first real short when I was 24 in a real mag. I'm 44 now. i just started Kindling the end of Septmember, so I don't have a Kindle audience ... yet. but I'm slowly building.

I'll check back when i can hit your numbers, Joe.
grin


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

James Everington said:


> I'd agree, 200 a month sounds okay to me - but I'm sure it's like a pay increase: as soon as you reach a certain number it seems to small...


Well, 200 per month was the average for 2010. My monthly sales were more of a bell curve, peaking in March when it sold 450 copies (and reached the top 300 for a day). Since then sales have slowed down to a steady 80-100 per month for the past 3 months or so. Now I'm not complaining because I came into writing as a "hobbyist" (I'm a career scientist in my day job) I am amazed that anyone wants to spend between $3 and $14 for something I wrote. It's just when I saw how many authors here were selling that many books, it just sort of floored me, and made me wonder if I have been setting my sights too low.


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## John Hartness (Aug 3, 2009)

One thing I've done today is to release more backlist stuff. I found Scrivener to be a very easy tool to do my own ebook conversion, so now I plan to follow Dean Wesley Smith's model of releasing short stories as stand-alones for $.99. I've got one in the upload process, along with a book of poetry that I had avoided putting up on Kindle because I couldn't see it making back the money I spent on converting it. Now that I can do my own simple covers and conversions, my overhead is low enough to release these things that I expect to sell less of. Because backlist increases visibility, which in turn increases sales. I hope.


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

I have two novels up, one I wrote with a sincere belief that it might help someone avoid drug addiction, the other strictly for commercial appeal. You can guess which one is hot and which is snot on a prison outhouse. I'm not frustrated, but for the life of me I can't figure how to attract readers outside of the demographic that purchase my novels. My thing is attracting diverse readers, not just a specific audience. There's an old saying, "When you compare you come up short." Props to those who post great numbers, but that doesn't at all help me achieve my goal. And keep in mind that there's thousands of writers out there, published and unpublished, who have been working hard for that big break. I think they're called mid-lists authors.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm in the same boat. My fantasy novel has been available for the Kindle since late July, and sales did climb steadily, then leveled off for Sept-Nov at right around 100 per month. Dec sold 119, but only because I put it on sale after Christmas.

It has 18 reviews, all 4- and 5-stars from "regular" readers as well as bloggers. I tweet it and FB about it and post in the Amazon discussion forums where it's prudent to do so, but the sales just aren't coming. I revamped the cover, rewrote the blurb, and had two 99c sales. The only thing I haven't tried was _raise_ the price.

Venom has only been out a month, and December was great. Come January 1, poof! Sales have all but stopped. I figured I'd try raising the price on it to see if that would help (I just did it last night, so it's too soon to tell.) I've got Carl from http://extendedimagery.blogspot.com/ working on a new cover (may as well try it), and I've alternated two blurbs to see if one is more effective than the other.

It has 8 reviews, all 5-stars from regular readers and bloggers. Maybe sci-fi thrillers are passé, but everywhere I go, people tell me how much they LOVED it. Unfortunately, those few voices aren't enough to stir up more sales.

Am I too impatient? I'd just like to see steady growth, not an explosion.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Valmore Daniels said:


> FWIW, I think there are *a lot * of authors on KB that should be in the 1k club.


This ^^^


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## John Hartness (Aug 3, 2009)

I also started a 3-month Kindle Giveaway on my blog, so maybe that will kick-start some sales, as people can get extra entries if they answer trivia questions about the books. I also made it a "winner's choice" contest, where the winner can pick from a Kindle 3, Nook or a $200 Amazon gift certificate, just so I don't leave out someone who already has a Kindle. I'll let you know if I make my $200 back.


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

I think the trick is to appreciate the progress. I'm up to between 1-2 books every day now. That won't impress a lot of people on this board, but it is a big step forward... and I think Luminous and Ominous can do better than that with some more promotion. I have a KND sponsorship coming up later this month.

I'm also planning to write and release 4 books this year. If each one makes a similar step up in sales like I just did.... I'll really be getting somewhere.

Of course, I'd love to make that jump up to thousands a month that I see so many of my great friends here doing..... It just hasn't happened yet.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

modwitch said:


> Well, here's some math I did.
> 
> If it takes me 500 hours to write, edit, format, promote a book, and I want to be paid $50/hr (pretty solid!), then I need to sell 12K copies at $2.99 over the life of my book. If I want to sell that many in 5 years, I need to sell about 200 books a month. 10 years, 100 books a month.
> 
> ...


I think this is a reasonable way to look at it. And if you can put three hours a day into the writing, you can produce two books a year at your rate. After five years you could have ten books and...the math looks better like that.


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

I would also never try to write in a "hot" genre just for the sake of boosting sales. Now, that's easy for me to say because I'm not writing for a living. It does, however, affect what I hope to write next. I currently have 7 writing projects in various states of completion. If I spend all my time this year finishing the sequel to Cyberdrome, I have to acknowledge that that particular sub-genre (realistic near-future 'quest" in a computer-generated virtual reality) is pretty dang small and all the work I will put into it better be for the love to writing, and not for the monetary payoff. 
Now with the release of the movie, "Tron: Legacy" there might be a boost in sales this year, but I'm not counting on it. Movie-genre popularity seldom translates into matching book-genre sales, I think. In other words, my particular story might do much better as a movie than a book--but I have no control over that...


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Joseph Rhea said:


> I would also never try to write in a "hot" genre just for the sake of boosting sales.


I agree - I don't want write what I don't love to read. That'd be pointless, and I'll bet the readers could tell.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Joseph Rhea said:


> I would also never try to write in a "hot" genre just for the sake of boosting sales.


I'm doing this now, and there were moments when I felt like I was selling out because I was writing paranormal romance, but that quickly faded as I got into my story and really made the genre my own. It's not vampires, werewolves, or any of the like, and so I think I did something original with the genre and the characters that'll both fit into the genre and make it stand out.

Realistically, there are romantic elements in my YA series, especially toward the end, and so depending on how you look at it the jump isn't that big.

I can't wait to release _Inevitable _at the end of the month!


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm late to this party, but sign me up anyways.

As I said somewhere else, I'm so envious of the people selling a book at day, I could eat my cell phone. 

I don't see any problem in writing for a market. Since my contemporary romance isn't selling, I'm betting that my Paranormal will. I knew after a year of shopping my first book around that the contemporary market was cold.


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## Philip Chen (Aug 8, 2010)

Hey, don't forget about me.  Move over will ya!


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

foreverjuly said:


> I'm doing this now, and there were moments when I felt like I was selling out because I was writing paranormal romance, but that quickly faded as I got into my story and really made the genre my own. It's not vampires, werewolves, or any of the like, and so I think I did something original with the genre and the characters that'll both fit into the genre and make it stand out.
> 
> Realistically, there are romantic elements in my YA series, especially toward the end, and so depending on how you look at it the jump isn't that big.
> 
> I can't wait to release _Inevitable _at the end of the month!


You know there is certainly nothing wrong with moving over to a "big-selling" genre if you have the skills to do so. As I said, I sort of have the luxury of not having to pay bill with my writing, but if I were trying to make it as a full-time writer, you can bet I would be paying much more attention to what is selling right now and what the future trends might be. And I think a good writer can "own" almost any genre if he/she has the skill set and works hard at it. Kudos to you for having the guts to step outside your own safe zone!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Joseph Rhea said:


> You know there is certainly nothing wrong with moving over to a "big-selling" genre if you have the skills to do so. As I said, I sort of have the luxury of not having to pay bill with my writing, but if I were trying to make it as a full-time writer, you can bet I would be paying much more attention to what is selling right now and what the future trends might be. And I think a good writer can "own" almost any genre if he/she has the skill set and works hard at it. Kudos to you for having the guts to step outside your own safe zone!


Thanks, yeah, I'm pretty much doing this for a living at the moment, and so I think you've got a good idea of the mindset I'm at here. I don't want to copy anything that's already out there, but I want to go where the readers are. Hopefully stretching out like this will get a few more eyes on what I've already released.

There are definitely some props due to those who can stick to what they know and love as well. Valmore has actually really surprised me with what the sci-fi genre can do. Hopefully you'll be able to tap into that more with your upcoming sequel.


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

I've joined the e-revolution in November 2010, and no, I'm not selling thousands yet, so I am joining this club. 

Daniel - I think fantasy can be very successful as well, no need to switch genres. Fantasy is where my heart has always been, too. My first publisher had told me, "Write some contemporary stuff first, let's make you a name, and then we'll see." It was over 10 years ago; he didn't think fantasy would sell well, either. With the classics like _Narnia_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ out there, with a strong following wanting more, I just don't know why people seem to have this opinion. Let's prove them wrong!


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

There've been times when I hesitated to post my monthly numbers.  For the first few months I didn't, because I was in that 1-2 books a day (or less) club.  At some point I sold a hundred in a month and that, from my perspective, was pretty darn good.  Still nowhere near the 1k a month club, but they're steadily rising.  

I'm good with whatever happens at this point, because there are a lot of factors you can't control, like getting that magical bit of exposure at just the right time or when that critical mass will launch you into the stratosphere.  For now, I'm just thrilled that some stranger, somewhere in the world, thinks the story I've written looks like it's worth reading.  

In one respect I'm inspired by others' impressive numbers, but maybe we shouldn't spend so much time comparing ourselves to each other and just get on with writing and enjoying what comes our way.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

My nightmares often involve the good fantasy writers on this board who don't sell a ton of books despite putting out great material (many of them have posted in this thread). This really, really concerns me about the viability of traditional fantasy as an indie writer. No doubt it can be pulled off as people like Michael J Sullivan and David Dalglish have shown. Then again, those guys have been exceptional cases. Writing in this genre doesn't seem to be comparable to writing in the hottest genres, but given enough hard work and the right circumstances, at least there's a chance of significant success.

Since my writing pace is slower, my hope is to reach a level like Valmore Daniels has, where one book can sell 1K+/month. Then again, 200 or 300 a month could be decent if you can average those sales for 5-10 years. Who knows what the future will be like, though.


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## kyrin (Dec 28, 2009)

Valmore Daniels said:


> FWIW, I think there are *a lot * of authors on KB that should be in the 1k club.


This is true. There is a lot of talent here. I think it comes down to time and reaching the right people. I still haven't figured out how to do that but I keep trying. Some months, especially my first few, I've gotten a little frustrated.

My first book was on Kindle in November of 09 but I really didn't get many sales till September of last year. Before then, I wasted a lot of time trying to get reviews. I also marketed it poorly while I neglecting the little things which by themselves don't seem like much but together can have a big effect.

Since then, my sales have fluxuated. I've been in the 1k club one month and dropped out of it the next. This month, I might be close to 1k but who knows. The month I sold over 2000 books, I had a lot of things going for me. I've lucked out and been in the Amazon lottery. The previous month I had a UK sponsorship on KND which paid off in terms of gaining some fans. The month I dropped down to a little over 500 books was in December. I spent most of my time focusing on releasing my lastest book. I slacked off a bit in terms of marketing and visiting my usual haunts. I also want to blame the release of Cataclysm because WoW is the devil. It digs its claws into me and drags me away from writing. Worse, it might have eaten some of my potential readers. This month, I'm hoping to get back in the 1k club and make my sales a bit more consistent.

It's hard to pinpoint what someone can do better because it's going to vary from person to person. In my case, I had to work on my blurb, cover art and really think about who my readers are and how to reach them. I wrote a contemporary/urban fantasy tale but it's not a paranormal romance. Some might say it's not even an urban fantasy story. It's an adventure story with fantasy elements set in the present day. Marketing it to the the Twilight crowd or someone who had a diffterent definition of urban fantasy wasn't working. I had to change who I marketted my book to and it's categories.

I have some other thoughts but they're a bit jumbled right now but someone else probably has better and clear ideas than I do.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Laura Lond said:


> Daniel - I think fantasy can be very successful as well, no need to switch genres. Fantasy is where my heart has always been, too. My first publisher had told me, "Write some contemporary stuff first, let's make you a name, and then we'll see." It was over 10 years ago; he didn't think fantasy would sell well, either. With the classics like _Narnia_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ out there, with a strong following wanting more, I just don't know why people seem to have this opinion. Let's prove them wrong!


Epic fantasy is like rock music.

The old classics will remain classics. Nobody's going to forget the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, or Led Zeppelin. They established themselves when the genre was hot. But if these bands started out in 2011, nobody would give them the time of day. Today it's pop, or the high way.

Same as _Lord of the Rings_ or _Narnia_. Those books would probably not be published today.

Most rock musicians continue to rock because, well, they're rockers. They don't want to sell out, and start releasing pop or hiphop. A few do this (Santana or Chris Cornell come to mind). They end up looking silly, in my opinion--goofy old men desperate for the kids' wallets. The others keep rocking, and playing for their fans and themselves. They'll never reach the success of a girl pop group, or a boy band. Nor will they reach the success they would have in the 60s and 70s. But they're rockers. So they rock.

I'm a fantasy writer. Epic fantasy is no longer as popular as it once was. It's rock music. The classics linger, but few new voices are breaking few. Some are, and that's great. Look at Sullivan or Dalglish. Those guys are awesome. Young Adult Paranormal Romance is literature's pop music -- it's fun, it's easy to digest, it's sweet. The kids love it, and they buy it in droves. Nothing wrong with that. Some writers switch to YAPR and succeed; I'm sure Jason will do well, and won't look nearly as foolish as Santana or Cornell releasing a pop album. I know Jason; he's a terrific writer, a very nice guy, and I wish him well. But others like us, well.. we stick to writing about swords and battles and monsters and magic. We might sell less than YAPR, but that's okay. We stay true to ourselves.


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## MCM (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm nowhere near 1,000 a month, but it's entirely my fault. My blurbs suck and my marketing efforts are flimsy... when I write my books, I can fairly consistently have thousands of people watch me do it, but it never translates into sales. I'm gifted that way. I gave away 100 copies of my latest book (print and ebook) in November, and got no reviews out of it. Might be a question of waiting, or just that I have abysmal luck.

That said, I'm going to make a concerted effort to improve, this year. One of the titles I almost see as disposable (feels strange to say that) is consistently my best-seller, and I think it's because of the cover. I'm trying to replicate the shock value across the other books in the next few weeks. If that doesn't work, I'll have to go back to building my mind control machine, because otherwise I'll never get to 1,000 books a month...


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

modwitch said:


> I guess what I'm trying to say is that a book that steadily sells 100-200 copies a month can make you a very decent income for the hours put in, over the lifetime of the book.


This is an excellent point, Debora. Listening to some of the most vocal people on this board (it's natural for the most successful to want to talk more), it's easy to get a distorted view of what constitutes success. For me, I have a long term goal of making my living at this, and it combines not only the money I make from my own publishing company, but the books I plan (and hope) to continue to sell to large publishers, as well as short stories and other income streams.

100 sales a month, across all channels, at even 3.99 is a little over $20,000 in six years. Probably 90% of novels sold to NY these days have advances less than that. Once I realized that, it's made it easier to consider publishing under my own imprint the FIRST option rather than a backup plan.

Now, I'm hoping lightning strikes, but I'm not counting on it. My goal is just to continue to steadily write the best books I can, month after month, year after year. In fact, even if lightning strikes, it's still the same plan.

And actually, my measure of success for a book is far lower. The math I was working on when 
I started to get serious about being a writer-publisher rather than just a writer was 1 sale a day at 3.99, which would be $10,000 in ten years. 30 sales a month across all sites, both electronic and POD.

I'm no where near the all-stars on this board, but I've already far surpassed my expectations for how I'd be doing at this point. So I'm happy.


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## JL Bryan (Aug 10, 2010)

Hey, a club for me!

I've gone from selling about 20-30 a month in July to 360 last month.  I just put out two new books and I have a big blog tour starting on Jan. 15.  So I may get closer to the 1k club this month.  But who knows?  So far, I'm happy with the growth and happy this opportunity even exists.


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## parKb5 (Jan 4, 2011)

Last month I only sold 20 books! Although it was my first month so hopefully sales will pick up. Any strategies that anyone uses to increase sales that you care to share would be GREATLY appreciated.


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## LarryEnright (Nov 27, 2010)

So, I'm thinking of using the MS Word find-and-replace feature on Four Years from Home to change all instances of "person" to "zombie" and "jerk" to "vampire" and maybe "love-hate relationship" to "passionate romance." Change the cover, new title, and voila! 

In the meantime, can I join your club, too?



Larry


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

Daniel Arenson said:


> Epic fantasy is no longer as popular as it once was.


Actually, I completely disagree with this. There's a huge, huge demand for new epic fantasy authors right now, which is why there's so many independent authors doing well in that genre. Have you read this story?

Read that and tell me there's no demand . . .

I've got a couple writer friends who signed with Tor, because they're hungry to find the next Jordan.


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## Cliff Ball (Apr 10, 2010)

I would love to get 100 a month sold first, and I was halfway to accomplishing that goal last month. This month, I will definitely hit over 100 sold, thanks to my KND sponsorship. My problem is, how the heck do you keep momentum going with the sales?  I think it really helped to change the covers to my novels, since my sales have had an uptick since I did so, now, I just need to figure out the best hook with my blurbs, which I'm now working on.  Too bad none of my relatives are very good at word of mouth, one of my aunts is a Flight Attendant on Southwest, she could do wonders for my sales!


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

Daniel Arenson said:


> Some writers switch to YAPR and succeed; I'm sure Jason will do well, and won't look nearly as foolish as Santana or Cornell releasing a pop album. I know Jason; he's a terrific writer, a very nice guy, and I wish him well.


We'll see!


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

Daniel Arenson said:


> Same as _Lord of the Rings_ or _Narnia_. Those books would probably not be published today.


That's certainly true; I've often thought of that. LOTR would stand no chance with today's publishers...


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

Laura Lond said:


> I've joined the e-revolution in November 2010, and no, I'm not selling thousands yet, so I am joining this club.
> 
> Daniel - I think fantasy can be very successful as well, no need to switch genres. Fantasy is where my heart has always been, too. My first publisher had told me, "Write some contemporary stuff first, let's make you a name, and then we'll see." It was over 10 years ago; he didn't think fantasy would sell well, either. With the classics like _Narnia_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ out there, with a strong following wanting more, I just don't know why people seem to have this opinion. Let's prove them wrong!


I think any genre is feasible when you're talking about writers making $2 or more a sale and getting to keep their books listed for years. What traditional publishers consider to be good sales numbers don't really matter for self-publishing writers.

The toughest part is getting people to even notice your book. It's not a matter of genre. There are paranormal romances doing great and others that aren't really selling, from what I can see. In fact, I think some niche genres can really be a good bet. I believe there's someone writing military SF who is selling quite well, and my guess is that's a small genre but there just are few new military SF books being produced so the market is a bit starved for new ones. He's better off being one of the few fish in a tiny pond rather than one of the large schools of fish in the paranormal romance ocean.


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## M.S. Verish (Feb 26, 2010)

Is there a club for those of us who sell less than 100...or even 10 a month?  

We can't wait to have our first 100 sale month...if it ever happens. Glad (or is it 'sorry'?) to see we're not the only ones struggling despite our efforts. And if it never does happen for us, we're still glad that we selling those couple books a month. Even one book is still an accomplishment.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

Can I join please. I've only been around since October and sales have been rising steadily although I am struggling to break into the US market for some reason.

But last month I reached 200 which actually doubled my previous best month, I reduced my price to 99 cents though.

I raised the price to $2.99 yesterday and I'm still getting some sales, so all's good for me. My sequel is being edited and I'm hoping will be on sale at the end of the month.

Fingers crossed sales increase for both books then and I'm able to make the step up to the other club then! 

Mel


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

melcom said:


> Can I join please. I've only been around since October and sales have been rising steadily although I am struggling to break into the US market for some reason.
> 
> But last month I reached 200 which actually doubled my previous best month, I reduced my price to 99 cents though.
> 
> ...


200 sales a month at 2.99 is $400, or almost $5000 a year. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Great job!


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## JoeMitchell (Jun 6, 2010)

I've been thinking about paranormal romance too. I'm still working on my series, which I hold near to my heart and don't want sully by rushing things, but I'm also trying support myself, and selling a ridiculous amount of PR books would really help me feel less rushed. Speaking of rushes, I see this time as being very much like the California gold rush in the mid 1800's, and we're in the first wave of claim-stakers. There will be many, many more behind us hoping to see the elephant. The faster we can get books published now, this year, the better chance we have of getting noticed and catching on. It's a lot of pressure. Logic says, if you can write what's selling now, do it, and quickly. I haven't taken the plunge yet like Jason, but my wife hears me speculate about it all the time.


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## Dawn Judd (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm definitely nowhere near 1000 a month.  (haven't even hit 100 a month yet)  But I'm excited about the increase in sales over the last couple of months.  It's encouraging and makes me want to keep trying.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2011)

JoeMitchell said:


> Speaking of rushes, I see this time as being very much like the California gold rush in the mid 1800's, and we're in the first wave of claim-stakers. There will be many, many more behind us hoping to see the elephant. The faster we can get books published now, this year, the better chance we have of getting noticed and catching on. It's a lot of pressure. Logic says, if you can write what's selling now, do it, and quickly. I haven't taken the plunge yet like Jason, but my wife hears me speculate about it all the time.


I think that's a great analogy, Joe. I'll be sure and let you know if there's any loot in PR for guys like us. Course Shard Mountain is already doing amazingly well!

To add a little more about my experience, I had the idea of the fantasy element for the story first, and then thought about whether to blow it up into a large-scale epic or have it be something smaller between just a few characters. It just worked better as a small-scale romance. So I was receptive to the idea of cracking into the genre, but I never would have if my ideas never led me there.


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

Just a note to the newer authors here, my writer's-journey is probably a good example of the importance of patience and persistence in Indie publishing (that's a lot of p's in one sentence!) 

I self published my paperback way back in January 2008, and then (reluctantly) uploaded it to Amazon for the brand-new Kindle a month or so later. I think the Kindle had only been out for a few months at that point, so I didn't expect many sales from it. Then I just walked away from it all. No blogging, no forum posting, no nothing. I had self-published something that took me 7 years (part-time) to write and polish (and re-polish) and I didn't really care about sales. For the next two years the book sold something like 2-3 copies per MONTH--just by word of mouth, I guess. During this time I was actually revising the opening chapters of the book (because I'm a perfectionist and couldn't seem to let go of the story and move on to the next) and in December 2009 released the 'final" version of the book. It was at this same time, I discovered the Kindle forums and began talking about the book. After coming up against the (now well-known) hostility on the Amazon boards, I was directed here and over the course of the last year, met all of you. That's also when my sales went from 2 per month to several hundred per month. So, even though I sold 2,500 copies of my book in 12 months, I only sold 40 or so the proceeding 24 months. 

So, in summary, the two most important 'P' words for Indie success are "patience" and "persistence". 
And I guess "posting" is important too, so that's 3... 

sorry for rambling--hope it helps someone...


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## Ali Cooper (May 1, 2010)

Well of course we'd all like to sell 1000s every month but we're also learning that however good a book might be it's very much down to genre and pricing.

I think the continued success of things like teen vampire novels is partly due to the recession. It's escapism into a slightly different (but not too different) world. And if they're teen friendly they're not going to be too tragic or gruesome.

So I'd rather liken writing to rock climbing rather than running a race. You're competing with yourself - if you're competing at all.

If I can get to the stage where I can earn maybe £800 a month from writing and top it up with a bit of guitar teaching then I'll be far better off than I am now. And with the growing e market and once I get the next book up - and of course, when I sort out US tax - that should be possible.

I don't want to get into books for 99c. To me, if you're writing the sort of books that take a year or more of research and serious work then that's seriously undervaluing what you do. But if someone's penniless I'll happily send them a free e copy. Otherwise I'd far rather aim at 3000 copies of a title at $2.99 than 20000 at 99c.

Also, I don't like this idea of writing as quickly as possible and turning out several books a year. I'd rather go for quality.


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

Love to join this thread.  I've sold 715 since June.  I market like an insane person, perhaps I'm not finding the right places to market, maybe my audience is niche.  I have reviews where people LOVE the world and the characters and others who really aren't into it.  

I'm not disappointed at all with my sales, I'm pleased with them, but I would love a place on this board to talk to others who are selling approximately the same amount.

Dawn


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## Consuelo Saah Baehr (Aug 27, 2010)

I have six titles and I only sell one or two copies a day.  However, each month gets better so I'm thinking it is a matter of time.  I just re-edited two of my titles and reformatted (with Jeff's help) so they look more professional.  I'm pretty sure I caught 99 percent of the typos and oddities. 

Sales in the U.K. keep increasing, too and I do very little marketing over there.  Reviews are beginning to come in and they help.  Guest blogging and interviews help, too. 

I still get excited when the "unit sales" number goes up one or two. 

I love hearing the huge success stories.  They allow me to believe that anything is possible in this whimsical, unpredictable e-world.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

I'd volunteer to be the Treasurer of this little group, but the coffers are empty.  I am too considering a career in the paranormal genre.  Way I see it, it's better being paranormal than normal--I hope.


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

Ali Cooper said:


> Also, I don't like this idea of writing as quickly as possible and turning out several books a year. I'd rather go for quality.


Well, I'm not going to get into an argument about speed vs. quality, because it's one of those arguments that's been done to death, but let me just say this: Speed of writing has nothing to do with quality. My writing speed is the same whether I write one book or four a year: two to three pages an hour of drafting speed. Really, really slow compared to most professional writers I know. I just work more hours at it than most people. I've sold two books to Simon and Schuster and over 40 short stories to professional markets, so I guess editors agree with me.

So let's just nip that one in the bud right now, k?

Practice makes perfect. Writing more = writing better.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

JoeMitchell said:


> I've been thinking about paranormal romance too. I'm still working on my series, which I hold near to my heart and don't want sully by rushing things, but I'm also trying support myself, and selling a ridiculous amount of PR books would really help me feel less rushed. Speaking of rushes, I see this time as being very much like the California gold rush in the mid 1800's, and we're in the first wave of claim-stakers. There will be many, many more behind us hoping to see the elephant. The faster we can get books published now, this year, the better chance we have of getting noticed and catching on. It's a lot of pressure. Logic says, if you can write what's selling now, do it, and quickly. I haven't taken the plunge yet like Jason, but my wife hears me speculate about it all the time.


You know who made money during the gold rush? The people selling equipment to the miners. That's what you need to do. 

The problem with trying to write a romance is...do you know that genre? If you don't read it, or when you do read it you don't enjoy it, can you really write one that will sell?


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

I get excited when I sell 1 book a day. It's funny how our perspectives and expectations constantly adapt to fit the change in situation. I published on Kindle fairly recently, November 22 of last year. It's inspiring, breath-taking and intimidating to read the posts of the 1,000 books a monthers. I'm glad that they do share their numbers and stories, as there's plenty to learn from them. However, patience, as several have already remarked on this list, is obviously the key. Patience, contentment and the willingness to keep on slogging away.

I have an epic fantasy trilogy (written primarily for me, as I love that genre, regardless of what's hot or not), plus two short story anthologies (one sci-fi and the other humorous urban fantasy). My financial goal for them is to earn out the cost of a decent, used minivan (two little kids, plus one more on the way - the old Volvo station wagon is not cutting it any more; 225k miles on it; gotta hand it to Volvo for making sturdy cars).

Now, if I can grow to sell 2 books a day, I will become more than excited. Rapturous, I suppose. For now, writing is my avocation; farming is my vocation. Perhaps, some day, writing will be my vocation and gardening some rhubarbs and cabbages in the backyard will be my avocation. If not, that's fine. Or maybe I should just become a stagecoach robber and loot all the gold getting carted down out of the Sierras.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

Scott William Carter said:


> Well, I'm not going to get into an argument about speed vs. quality, because it's one of those arguments that's been done to death, but let me just say this: Speed of writing has nothing to do with quality. My writing speed is the same whether I write one book or four a year: two to three pages an hour of drafting speed. Really, really slow compared to most professional writers I know. I just work more hours at it than most people. I've sold two books to Simon and Schuster and over 40 short stories to professional markets, so I guess editors agree with me.
> 
> So let's just nip that one in the bud right now, k?


I think for a lot of people speed and quality have an inverse relationship. I am one of those people. Give me 12 months to write a novel and it will turn out better than if you give me 6 months to write the same novel. 18 months will produce a better novel than 12 months, etc. I think most people are like that, but not everyone is if we take everyone at their word.

But this thread shouldn't turn into a debate about fast writing, re-writing, and all of that stuff. We have Dean's blog for those discussions


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Ewww.  Finally.  A thread with my name on it.  

December sales:

Amazon U.S.: 4
Amazon U.K.: 1
B&N PubIt: 1


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

MosesSiregarIII said:


> I think for a lot of people speed and quality have an inverse relationship. I am one of those people. Give me 12 months to write a novel and it will turn out better than if you give me 6 months to write the same novel. 18 months will produce a better novel than 12 months, etc. I think most people are like that, but not everyone is if we take everyone at their word.
> 
> But this thread shouldn't turn into a debate about fast writing, re-writing, and all of that stuff. We have Dean's blog for those discussions


Moses, why is it I get the feeling that no matter what point I'm trying to make, you think the opposite? 

You're right, I'm not going to debate this (or at least I'm trying not to), but it's actually the reverse. There is a point where it's too fast, of course, when you're rushing, but if you give people more time, they generally rewrite something to death and kill the natural voice in it, destroying the fresh voice which is what attracts someone to an author in the first place.

But there is no right way. Only your way. I'm just saying it's best not to make blanket statements like "I'm going for quality," implying that only writing one book a year is the way to go.


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## JoeMitchell (Jun 6, 2010)

Asher MacDonald said:


> You know who made money during the gold rush? The people selling equipment to the miners. That's what you need to do.


We're seeing that happen now as people offer their services for editing and book covers. On a larger scale, it's Amazon, Smashwords, Apple, and Pubit selling the tools, getting paid a percentage of everything we make.



Asher MacDonald said:


> The problem with trying to write a romance is...do you know that genre? If you don't read it, or when you do read it you don't enjoy it, can you really write one that will sell?


There's actually a very sweet paranormal romance in Shard Mountain. I don't promote it that way because it's only a small part of the story, but I really liked how it came out. That's what made me think that if I tried to write a good PR, I could probably pull it off. I'm sticking to my series for now though.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

Scott William Carter said:


> Moses, why is it I get the feeling that no matter what point I'm trying to make, you think the opposite?
> 
> You're right, I'm not going to debate this (or at least I'm trying not to), but it's actually the reverse. There is a point where it's too fast, of course, when you're rushing, but if you give people more time, they generally rewrite something to death and kill the natural voice in it, destroying the fresh voice which is what attracts someone to an author in the first place.
> 
> But there is no right way. Only your way. I'm just saying it's best not to make blanket statements like "I'm going for quality," implying that only writing one book a year is the way to go.


Well if there's no right way, then it's not true that giving people more time kills their voice. Because some people will write better if you give them more time if everyone is different, right (EDIT: You said "generally." Okay, that may or may not be true)? Some people are rewriters and some are not. Some do better with rewriting (most people, IMO) and some say they do not do better with rewriting. If we're going to say that there's no single right way, then we have to really say there's no right way. There are plenty of good authors who do it both ways.

I think it's fine for someone to say they're "going for quality" if _for them_ spending more time on a project produces a higher quality work. Count me in with that group. I'm someone that adds to my first drafts. Some people take more things out than they put back in when they do revision. I'm someone that cuts a little, but adds more than he cuts.

Btw, I have no intention or desire to be your opposite man--seriously. Let's be friends.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

julieannfelicity said:


> I'm in the same boat ... not frustrated ... rather discouraged.
> 
> I'm hoping (fingers & toes crossed) I can get my other books done, so I can see if I can achieve success like the others.
> 
> I would say 200 books a month is wicked pissa (in my lovely Boston accent)! I'm happy if I can sell 10 a month.


I'm in your boat. And I've spent so much time marketing, I haven't had time to write. It's time to turn that around.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

Betsala said:


> I'm in your boat. And I've spent so much time marketing, I haven't had time to write. It's time to turn that around.


The problem, you see, is that everyone is a little nuts.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I second the person who said you have to know the genre to sell ANY romance novels. If you want the Romance in the genre you have to know the tropes and use the ones required. Otherwise you will crash and burn.

Too many times people say "Eh, I'll write a romance and make a lot of money."

For example, Harlequin has dozens of blogs and spends thousands of hours teaching writers how to write romance novels for them. It really is a tricky genre to write, with or without the 'paranormal.'


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## Debra L Martin (Apr 8, 2010)

Wow, I'm glad to see that I'm not alone when it comes to sales.  I've never commented in any of the other sales threads because I was just not selling at the level that some other authors were on this board.  I say bravo to them as I try to figure out what they're doing that I'm not.

One of my new year's resolutions, however, is to give my writing and marketing top billing before I do any blog work.  Maybe one of these days, I'll be able to join those 1K sales club too.

Deb


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I second the person who said you have to know the genre to sell ANY romance novels. If you want the Romance in the genre you have to know the tropes and use the ones required. Otherwise you will crash and burn.
> 
> Too many times people say "Eh, I'll write a romance and make a lot of money."
> 
> For example, Harlequin has dozens of blogs and spends thousands of hours teaching writers how to write romance novels for them. It really is a tricky genre to write, with or without the 'paranormal.'


I'll admit that the thought has crossed the animal part of my brain: "Write PNR."

And then my rational brain said, first of all, you wouldn't enjoy it. Second, you don't read romance books, you don't understand women as well as you probably think you do, and you'd suck at it while abandoning what you're really passionate about.

It would be a fun challenge and I think if I had a year or two to research the genre (i.e. actually read some of it) I _might_ be able to write something passable, but that'd still be a longshot for me. I respect anyone that can be that flexible to try it and I say more power to 'em if they can pull it off in a soulful way.


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## Judi Coltman (Aug 23, 2010)

MosesSiregarIII said:


> The problem, you see, is that everyone is a little nuts.


Wow! Wish I had thought of that!


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I second the person who said you have to know the genre to sell ANY romance novels. If you want the Romance in the genre you have to know the tropes and use the ones required. Otherwise you will crash and burn.


I agree. If it's not a genre you read & love, how do you know what the genre's fans are looking for? I find it hard to believe I could find instant success in a genre I don't read simply because it's hot. Does every writer who writes a paranormal romance story sell 1000+ per month? I seriously doubt it.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

I, for one, am still at the point where I wonder if every other sale is just my mom trying to boost my self esteem.

It seems like a lot of the people in here are sci-fi/fantasy writers.  I wonder if we're just looking at the principles that work for marketing romance novels and trying to apply them to our own genre.  The markets are generally completely different.  Romance novels are usually targeted toward females, for one thing, generally either teenagers or middle aged women.  Fantasy is more directed at nerdy males under 40.  

Nerdy males under 40 are also known to buy a lot of gadgets, like the ereaders and smartphones, so there has to be a user base out there.  Maybe we're just not reaching them by sticking to writing forums and blogs?  I've yet to even see an indie review site with a strong sci-fi/fantasy focus.  Everywhere I go, as I said in another thread, the fantasy genre has been bitten by a vampire.  Has anyone had a different experience?


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## WestofMars (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm also coming late to this party -- but I know exactly why my sales aren't so great. Of my three books, two are short story anthologies. They are linked stories and feature the characters in my novel. (I bet you can look at my sig and figure out which is which!)

I'd never meant for the stories to be anything other than blog fodder, but my readers wanted them in a book. I'm waiting on my cover artist for the third collection, and there will be one more, possibly two, behind it. Originally, it was going to be a print thing and I wasn't even going to bother with an ISBN or anything. It was going to be straight vanity. A keepsake for the shelves.

But... my readers didn't like that, either. I figured if they were willing to spend the money, I was willing to give 'em what they wanted.

You'll notice they're not very good with writing reviews.  

As I've expanded beyond that initial audience and spent more time here (at the encouragement of one of them), I've seen my sales slowly starting to rise. Hopefully the reviews will follow, and things will snowball from there. 

And yes, I have more irons in the fire than Demo Tapes anthologies. Absolutely.


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## sandynight (Sep 26, 2010)

Now this is a place for me. I was 3 sales away last month from 100.  
Sometimes I look at my book and think...oh what have I done? I'm an avid reader of romance, thrillers, horror, mystery, paranormal, crime, YA, and I started my book while studying Harlequin but while writing I really got into reading Hard Case Crime books, so my book is like a collision of Harlequin and Hard Case. I haven't done any marketing except posting here occasionally, I'm not sure where to go with promoting it but I have gotten sales, so I guess I'll work on second book which is looking to be about the same...Harlequin colliding with Hard Case Crime.


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

According to wikipedia, paranormal romance is:

_Paranormal romance is a sub-genre of the romance novel. A type of speculative fiction, paranormal romance focuses on romance and includes elements beyond the range of scientific explanation, blending together themes from the genres of traditional fantasy, science fiction, or horror. Paranormal romance may range from traditional category romances, such as those published by Harlequin Mills & Boon, with a paranormal setting to stories where the main emphasis is on a science fiction or fantasy based plot with a romantic subplot included. Common hallmarks are romantic relationships between humans and vampires, shapeshifters, ghosts, and other entities of a fantastic or otherworldly nature.

Beyond the more prevalent themes involving vampires, shapeshifters, ghosts, or time travel, paranormal romances can also include books featuring characters with psychic abilities, like telekinesis or telepathy._

My upcoming zombie novel *does *have a romantic subplot, but it's between two people rather than between a person and a zombie. Vampires are so much more versatile in this respect. They can talk and fly, even run a nightclub. Zombies just bite your nose off when you lean in for a kiss. Talk about a mood killer.

Oh well. I'm going to keep plugging away at my spy thrillers and horror novels. They're keeping me entertained at the moment, they're selling, and my readers seem to enjoy them. That's enough motivation for me.


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## 28612 (Dec 7, 2010)

I've spent most of my publishing life in print, starting in 1990. All but one of my Kindle books were previously print published. 

I'm not turning my back on print publishing, but what draws me to self-publishing is to write exactly what I want to read -- thereby assuring that I'll please at least one person  

Some can write whatever the market desires at the moment, and more power to them. Before anyone tries that, however, I urge each writer to look into her/himself to gauge what that might do to your joy in writing. If you're one who can follow the market's flow, great. If you're not, you can damage your relationship with your writing. IOW, tend the muse. If you're not writing, you have nothing of any kind to sell.

The other aspect that's had me squirming reading this thread is promotion. If gonzo promotion is required to hit the top selling numbers, I'm staying in my quiet little corner and being extremely happy with those readers of exquisite tast  who find me on their own.


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## Michael Crane (Jul 22, 2010)

*waves*

Hi.  My name is Michael, and I'm an al----whoops.  Wrong meeting.  Sorry!

I'm not too upset.  I sell short stories/collections.  Those are TOUGH sells.  Yet, I'm still extremely proud of how many books I've been selling since I started publishing for the Kindle.  My stuff has reached more people than it would've had I just sat on it.  Feedback's been good, sales have been steady--only makes me want to work harder.


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## donna callea (Dec 25, 2009)

Let's face it.  We all want to sell lots of books.  If we write well, write what's popular, and are skillful at promoting, we probably have a chance at succeeding.  But I think, unless the gods of fortune decide to smile down upon me, I'll be lucky to just keep plodding along.

I write what I want to write, and I do it as well and as carefully as I possibly can.   But my novels are difficult to categorize. They don't fit well into specific (and popular) genres, and I'm not really a very good at promoting them -- although I try.

Most months I'm lucky to sell 200 copies combined of my two books.  Selling 1,000 a month would be amazing-- and no one would be more amazed than me.  I have no idea what I could do to make that happen.  I think maybe it's best for me to just write and not worry about numbers. But it's hard not to be envious of those indies who obviously have the golden touch.


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## mattposner (Oct 28, 2010)

I haven't really wanted to admit my low sales -- not good publicity, like that. But I will admit it now. I had a surge my first two weeks in October, constituting about 20 copies sold, mostly people I know so it didn't really count, and then dropped down to the level of two or three per week sold to total strangers, where I have been since.

I sell diddly-squat on barnesandnoble.com. Everything is on amazon.

No reviews yet from the popular blogs and no way of knowing if the reviewers I submitted to are going to choose to mention my books and I don't know how much those reviews would generate for me in terms of sales.

I could tell more stories like this but no one really needs to read about them. The point is, marketing and sales seem very frustratingly trial-and-error and heavily based on luck, where things you work hard on don't work, while paradoxically, a success can come out of nowhere for no clear reason. Plus I work three teaching jobs (one full-time and two part-time) which means that I only have energy and time to do a little self-promotion per day, and not every day, in between trying to negotiate learning-disabled kids through behavioral issues, self-esteem issues, and the NY state English Regent's.

The advice I've seen here that I value most is to have longevity and just a lot of stuff out there so you look established and your various works can cross-pollinate. Focusing on quality to build up audience slowly seems like advice I can deal with because I have great faith in my quality and the audience isn't going to build fast regardless, because that just isn't the way it's going for me. All the same, I've been very frustrated and bitter about e-book marketing -- seems like nothing I did worked the way I wanted -- to the point that my focus (besides writing) is now on preparing to market my CreateSpace edition to independent bookstores.

My genre -- magic and teens -- was popular when I started writing it, but I took too long to come to market and the genre has been supplanted by paranormal romance (teens and vampires etc). I'm not switching genres, though. I view it as my goal to re-invigorate the genre rather than abandon it, because the best work in a genre will perhaps be done by people who really love it. I have to, and you guys have to also, believe that you are as good at your genre as the hot print authors are. I have to believe I'm as good as JK Rowling, Eoin Colfer, Rick Riordan. In fact, I intend to prove I'm better before my series is through. You guys who are thinking of genre-switching, in my view anyway, define your competition in the genre you like and be better.

Getting too tired to keep writing this now. It is written with great respect for you all but much fatigue. Let's keep this thread going as long as possible!

Matt

P.S.


Michael Crane said:


> *waves*
> 
> Hi. My name is Michael, and I'm an al----whoops. Wrong meeting. Sorry!
> 
> I'm not too upset. I sell short stories/collections. Those are TOUGH sells. Yet, I'm still extremely proud of how many books I've been selling since I started publishing for the Kindle. My stuff has reached more people than it would've had I just sat on it. Feedback's been good, sales have been steady--only makes me want to work harder.


Damn right.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

I've only hit 100 books in a month once... last July. I strive for it every month, and I just fall short. I just don't think people are talking about my books, even though they leave nice reviews. TBTC has 13 five-star reviews, but I've only sold a little over 400. Galaxy has six four-star reviews, and just went over 100... I dropped the price of Galaxy to .99, and I've sold 10 copies in the US this month (well, in the past 30 hours).

I mention them here, Amazon boards, Facebook, Twitter. 

Helloooooooo out there!!!


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

John Fitch V said:


> I've only hit 100 books in a month once... last July. I strive for it every month, and I just fall short. I just don't think people are talking about my books, even though they leave nice reviews. TBTC has 13 five-star reviews, but I've only sold a little over 400. Galaxy has six four-star reviews, and just went over 100... I dropped the price of Galaxy to .99, and I've sold 10 copies in the US this month (well, in the past 30 hours).
> 
> I mention them here, Amazon boards, Facebook, Twitter.
> 
> Helloooooooo out there!!!


You're actually doing well. And I wouldn't worry about word of mouth. I don't think it's how most people are finding new authors online. They find them mostly by Amazon's recommendations (or B&N's) and by browsing by category or price. And of course sampling.

And honestly, I wouldn't "strive" for sales at all. It's always better to focus on what we can control.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I've been busy all day so just saw this thread. I think the thread is a very good idea. I was feeling, oh so lonely out there. I first published at the end of June and had several very slow months, 7,3,16,16,15 if I recall. Then I dropped my price to 0.99C. For the last two months I have sold over 200 per month and it looks as if I may do likewise this month. To get to 200 I have to keep my price down, and I have to spend a lot of time promoting. Those of you who have counted hours writing your books have not, I think, added in promotion which just wears me out.
I am pleased that I have gone from 16 to over 200, but I'm not happy with the price. I haven't even made back the price I paid for editing yet. I am pleased with most of my reviews, and am aware of some mistakes I made in writing this book. This is not a hobby for me, I'm semi-retired and would like to stop working also have quite a few debts. I'm playing with the next book, and I'll admit I've been toying with vampires and romance, neither of which is a genre that I would normally touch. 
I would really like to spend less time promoting or make my promoting more effective. I know I am not spending enough time writing. My sales are much better in the UK. I don't know why. Because my book is about animal rights I was half expecting some serious controversy from those who steadfastly believe in animal research. I have not seen that, except possibly in one review. I would like to continue including animal issues in my writing. The first thing I need to do is decide what I'm going to write next and stick with it.
I like to hear the figures of all those doing so well, but it also feels like a sword plunged through my heart especially when they say,"Oh I don't bother promoting."
Ann


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I would like to add that I'm feeling a lot of pressure. I can see where Indie publishing may be a great opportunity. Perhaps my last opportunity because I'm not a teenager, and I keep thinking don't blow it, but i'm not sure what steps to take next.
Ann


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

sandynight said:


> Now this is a place for me. I was 3 sales away last month from 100.
> Sometimes I look at my book and think...oh what have I done? I'm an avid reader of romance, thrillers, horror, mystery, paranormal, crime, YA, and I started my book while studying Harlequin but while writing I really got into reading Hard Case Crime books, so my book is like a collision of Harlequin and Hard Case. I haven't done any marketing except posting here occasionally, I'm not sure where to go with promoting it but I have gotten sales, so I guess I'll work on second book which is looking to be about the same...Harlequin colliding with Hard Case Crime.


That's your tag line: Harlequin meets Hard Case.

Find a book that is like yours -- that is selling well -- and set a google alert for the author's name and one for the book's name. As the alerts come in, note the web sites where the book/author is being talked about. Put together a promo/request for review email and send it to the operators of those sites.

Some won't respond. Others will be happy to read and review your book right now! Most will respond and explain how busy they are but that they would be happy to put you in their queue and it might take a few months. Thank them, get them the file (never expect a reviewer to pay for the book) and wait.

And write the next book while you're waiting.

Fun times!


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

I really appreciate everyone's honest comments. This has been a sobering thread, especially with all of the "OMG I'm selling a million ebooks" threads recently.

I'm at a weird place because I only have this novella out that's a long teaser (I think I've had around 2,000 downloads so far, most of them free at Smashwords and B&N), so I have no idea how many ebooks I'll sell per month when my novel comes out. I can see from this thread and others that it can be anywhere from 10-20/month or up closer to 1,500 a month for a Fantasy or Sci-Fi novel (that is what I like to call the "Valmore Daniels Mile-High Club" ). I'm making plans for the best, and I will fire all of my guns to try to make that happen, but I'm also trying to be ready for the worst because clearly a lot of indie writers aren't meeting their goals yet and it can take a while to reach a level of sales that you're really happy with.


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

You know what I want to see?  Less emphasis on copies sold and more on net revenue.  How about a $1000/month club instead?  

But then, most people are going to be like me and have a hard time talking about money in public (except in the most general terms), so it's probably a non-starter.  

Still, there's lots of ways to get to $1000 that are more within your control:  going with a higher price, having more titles for sale, getting into more markets, etc.  I don't like all this emphasis on 1000 sales.  In fact, I'm coming to think that thread is doing more harm than good, creating subtle pressure for writers to do whatever it takes to get a high ranking (like lowering the price) rather than to have a long term strategy that maximizes revenue.  I know others will see it differently, and that's fine, different strokes for different folks, but that kind of thread would be more in line with my goals.


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

Let me add my voice to those of you saying this thread was a very good idea. Sometimes when I see author after author selling thousands I begin to wonder what I may be doing wrong - and I am certainly doing a few things wrong  - but the truth is that only the very lucky suddenly sell thousands after playing this game for a month or two. Most authors have to work hard and be patient.

No one should get discouraged that they aren't immediately in the top 1% of independent authors.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I've been busy all day so just saw this thread. I think the thread is a very good idea. I was feeling, oh so lonely out there. I first published at the end of June and had several very slow months, 7,3,16,16,15 if I recall. Then I dropped my price to 0.99C. For the last two months I have sold over 200 per month and it looks as if I may do likewise this month. To get to 200 I have to keep my price down, and I have to spend a lot of time promoting. Those of you who have counted hours writing your books have not, I think, added in promotion which just wears me out.
> I am pleased that I have gone from 16 to over 200, but I'm not happy with the price. I haven't even made back the price I paid for editing yet. I am pleased with most of my reviews, and am aware of some mistakes I made in writing this book. This is not a hobby for me, I'm semi-retired and would like to stop working also have quite a few debts. I'm playing with the next book, and I'll admit I've been toying with vampires and romance, neither of which is a genre that I would normally touch.
> I would really like to spend less time promoting or make my promoting more effective. I know I am not spending enough time writing. My sales are much better in the UK. I don't know why. Because my book is about animal rights I was half expecting some serious controversy from those who steadfastly believe in animal research. I have not seen that, except possibly in one review. I would like to continue including animal issues in my writing. The first thing I need to do is decide what I'm going to write next and stick with it.
> I like to hear the figures of all those doing so well, but it also feels like a sword plunged through my heart especially when they say,"Oh I don't bother promoting."
> Ann


Hi Ann.

We've been leapfrogging each other for a few weeks, and I agree with you the promoting side of things is both daunting and draining! I called a halt to it 2 days ago and upped the price of my book to $2.99. I'm still selling some books, but I'm actually finding the time to write again. Hopefully the sequel will be out at then end of this month, the editing is going well so far. I've cut back a few hours too, now I only work 12 hours a day instead of 14!!

The reason your book sells well in the UK is because they/we are supposed to be notorious animal lovers, despite rising figures in the amount of dogs being abandoned or ill-treated.
If only we all sold at $2.99 then not only would we all be making some money, we could all get back to doing what we love, WRITING!

Mel


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## Derek J. Canyon (Sep 1, 2010)

I recently blogged my daily and monthly sales numbers for my first 3 months (Oct, Nov, Dec) self-pubbing my ebooks. You can read the whole deal here.

I have two cyberpunk (not the hottest genre) books for sale, a full length novel (Dead Dwarves Don't Dance) for $2.99 and a 3-short-story-collection (Dead Dwarves, Dirty Deeds) for $0.99. In those 3 months I made about $200. Certainly not much to jump up and down about.

Monthly sales numbers









Daily sales numbers









If you look at the daily sales chart, you'll see that I had an uptick in sales soon after I released my 2nd book. I think that the number of titles published is the biggest contributor to the 1000/month club.

If you look at this table (admittedly incomplete), you'll see that of the 54 authors in the 1000+/month club, the distribution is as follows:










With only 35% of these authors having 2 or fewer titles available, I think the best thing to do to reach 1000 books a month is put out more titles. If 1000+ sales/monthis the definition of success, then the best strategy is to put out more books.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2011)

Love all the chart action, Derek.  I have a sample of your novel on my kindle and hope to check it out soon. 

It's been less than a month since I published my first ebook, and I can't really complain, but I'll just say that I can commiserate with the folks in this thread much more in the big-success-stories thread at this point. *g* I'm doing a middle-grade children's story (yeah, and there are about as many kids as you'd think with kindles ) and a fantasy series that doesn't fit into any neat categories. It was briefly in the epic fantasy bestseller list (thanks to a KN sponsorship, though I'm one of the ones that didn't quite make back the money the ad cost), and it's soooo not epic. 

I'll just take this brief moment to rant that the Amazon categories for fantasy suck.  Where is Steampunk? Swords and sorcery? Dark fantasy? Comic fantasy? Science-fantasy? 

I feel like some of the other genres are better broken down, thus making it easier to get into an appropriate list where someone might find you. 

Maybe it's all in my imagination though! I guess I could try writing to Amazon.


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## tbrookside (Nov 4, 2009)

I committed very early to the proposition that embracing indie publishing made sense because if you sold even _one_ book, you'd realize more revenue than you'd get if you pursued traditional publishing and didn't get published.

I think that still holds. I sit and fume when I have bad sales days, but I try to remind myself: in 2010 I sold almost 2000 books and made some money, and those sales and that income would have been completely out of reach just a few years ago. If I complain about my sales too much, in a way I'm spitting in the face of the great gift that has been given to me by the indie publishing revolution.

My only real concern is my [apparent] utter inability to add "fans". My first book sells, but not my others. My third book I completely discount, because it's a fairly obscure elaborate joke that I put together mainly for my own amusement - but I'm genuinely disturbed that my second release didn't sell well. That to me says that people are buying my first book, but not becoming "fans". And that implies that any additional books I write will encounter diminishing returns. That makes it a little harder to stay motivated.


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## tbrookside (Nov 4, 2009)

LKRigel said:


> Find a book that is like yours -- that is selling well -- and set a google alert for the author's name and one for the book's name. As the alerts come in, note the web sites where the book/author is being talked about. Put together a promo/request for review email and send it to the operators of those sites.


That is an awesome idea and a way to use Google Alerts that I had never considered.

Thank you for posting this.


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## Ali Cooper (May 1, 2010)

For anyone getting offended at the speed vs quality thing.

No offence was intended and speed and quality are probably not the right words.

But what I'm getting at is the insistence by some of the high number sellers that to do well you must produce lots of books as quickly as possible.

For many books, no matter how much high quality writing you can produce in a short time and no matter how many hours you are able to work there will be research which will take the time. And if you get 99% of it thoroughly covered, there will be readers who will find mistakes in the other 1%. Plus you are often reliant on other people at their convenience for the info.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> Find a book that is like yours -- that is selling well -- and set a google alert for the author's name and one for the book's name. As the alerts come in, note the web sites where the book/author is being talked about. Put together a promo/request for review email and send it to the operators of those sites.


Great idea, LK!

Thanks for the charts, Derek. That really put things into perspective. I think that a good number of folks who sell over 1000 per month give a ton of books away. That's one thing I haven't tried yet, though I've done giveaways for a handful here and there. Getting lots of copies into the hands of readers will get more people talking about them.


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## RobynB (Jan 4, 2011)

julieannfelicity said:


> I would say 200 books a month is wicked pissa (in my lovely Boston accent)! I'm happy if I can sell 10 a month.


Boston accents are the best!  And I agree: 200 books WOULD be wicked pissa with jimmies on top.


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## Julie Christensen (Oct 13, 2010)

I agree with an earlier poster that there are a lot of writers on this board who deserve to be in the 1k club, and higher.  I hope you guys don't mind me posting on this thread, even though I've somehow mangaged to sell more than 1k.  

I read your comments and how well you've all done with reviews, how hard you have worked with promotion, and how good your covers look.  The only thing I can think of is that you aren't high enough in the Amazon ranking system to get them to start suggesting your novel.  There are too many of you for me to check on your ranks, but for me, my book started selling a lot when I hit about 1200.  

So, here's my idea.  What if some of you do kind of a lottery thing where you each agree to buy each other's books on a given day.  If everyone drops their book to 99 cents, and a big number buy one book on the same day, wouldn't it make sense that Amazon will see the book suddenly move up in rank and start promoting it?  My book started really moving up in the ranks when I hit 25-35 books a day.  One other idea, have any of you purchased advertising on the KBD?  From the posts I've seen, people sell about 200 books in a day with those ads, and they aren't very expensive.  

I think all of you should be patting yourselves on the back for writing a book, and many of you, for writing many books.  It's an amazing acheivement that many people only fantasize about.  Second, you're getting great reviews, so you know you wrote a great book!  Hang in there!

Julie


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

OK, this might be a dumb move, but I figured I'd try it. I'm doing an ebook download challenge, giving out a Smashwords coupon code on my web site for free copies of Venom for a week. If getting a whole bunch of readers is the key, then what better way than to throw books up into the air like money?


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

KBD? What's that?


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## JL Bryan (Aug 10, 2010)

Daniel Arenson said:


> Some writers switch to YAPR and succeed; I'm sure Jason will do well, and won't look nearly as foolish as Santana or Cornell releasing a pop album. I know Jason; he's a terrific writer, a very nice guy, and I wish him well. But others like us, well.. we stick to writing about swords and battles and monsters and magic. We might sell less than YAPR, but that's okay. We stay true to ourselves.


I had kind of the reverse thing happen.

I wrote Jenny Pox as a horror novel, because that's a genre I write. Plot logic pretty much dictated that the characters were teenagers, because certain things had to happen early in their lives. I really had no idea about YA paranormal as a genre, or "paranormal" as distinct from "horror." I figured if it had vampires or supernatural monsters, it was horror. But Jenny Pox has been extremely successful among YA paranormal readers, and a few have called it the best YA paranormal they've read. So, that's pretty crazy that it's doing well in a genre I didn't even know about when I wrote it.


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## Julie Christensen (Oct 13, 2010)

David McAfee said:


> KBD? What's that?


Kindle Book of the Day. There are some threads about what kind of success people have had. Another is KND, Kindle Nation Daily. I signed up for that one for February. It cost about $80. A lot of posters here have seen giant jumps in sales on that day. There is a wait - I signed up in Oct or Nov and got Feb, which was perfect for me b/c i wanted my book advertised just before Valentines Day.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

The results for the KBBoTD vary widely. I don't think the average sales from a KBBoTD would come anywhere near 200, though.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi gang. Not at 1K yet--but hope to be soon!

I've definitely seen an increase in sales since releasing my novel *Vestal Virgin*--for both of my books.

*Vestal Virgin* was published mid-December, and I had it introductory priced at .99 cents through January 1st. Last month I sold over 350 books (most in those two weeks). Now I've raised the price of *Vestal Virgin* to $2.99, but my short story collection *Dating My Vibrator (and other true fiction)* remains at .99 cents. Sales have slowed, but I'm making about the same money. I sold about 60 books on January first, and a total of 110 books in January.

It's a process. I'm working on another novel, and I'm sure it's publication will boost my sales again. But, for me, writing a novel takes about a year--especially when it involves a lot of research. Okay, gotta get off these boards and write!

Suzanne


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## JL Bryan (Aug 10, 2010)

LKRigel said:


> That's your tag line: Harlequin meets Hard Case.
> 
> Find a book that is like yours -- that is selling well -- and set a google alert for the author's name and one for the book's name. As the alerts come in, note the web sites where the book/author is being talked about. Put together a promo/request for review email and send it to the operators of those sites.


It's also good to use Google Alerts on your own books and keep track of all the bloggers who have liked them. That way you have a network of people to contact for reviews when your next book comes out. I've gotten some good reviews that I wouldn't have known about.

Suzanne--I actually just one-clicked Dating My Vibrator. The cover has made me laugh enough times that I'll spend the 99 cents.


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## rcanepa (Jul 1, 2010)

Oooo, a thread for me.  *pulls up a comfy chair*

I've read every post in this thread but don't have time to respond to all of them (I should be revising my next book, after all).

But I'm glad for this thread.  As I see everyone in other threads post about their wild successes (which I am THRILLED for those people!), I have been telling myself that to compare myself to others is foolish.  I'm sure there's a proverb or something in there somewhere.

I think a lot of my trouble is with Norton's Ghost's subject.  My next book is a quicker, more straightforward read, and I'm hoping that one will see more success.

Beyond that?  I'm happy and doing just fine with myself.  I'm writing, releasing stuff to the world, and every single reader that tells me they like it is like walking on a cloud.  That feeling will never get old, and the scarcer those responses are, the sweeter they taste.


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## julieannfelicity (Jun 28, 2010)

JL Bryan said:


> Suzanne--I actually just one-clicked Dating My Vibrator. The cover has made me laugh enough times that I'll spend the 99 cents.


Wait 'til you read the part about


Spoiler



the Frosty fight


! That was my *FAVORITE* part of the book.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Interesting article on how some people are manipulating the Amazon rankings: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jan/05/amazon-ebook-manipulate-kindle-rankings


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## rcanepa (Jul 1, 2010)

I've been wondering if it was possible to repeatedly buy your own book and thus change the rankings.  You'd think they would have thought of that.  Heh.  *I* would have, and I'm just one programmer, what to speak of having a whole army of programmers available.

As far as I know, he would have had to have multiple accounts to post all those reviews, no?  And to have bought something with all of them?  If so, they would appear in the systems as no different than any other person's account.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

julieannfelicity said:


> Wait 'til you read the part about
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Thanks Julieann! A lot of people like that part. 

I forgot to mention--for me, writing is a passion. I don't want to make it a job (I've had enough jobs in my life). So I write what I love to write.

Who knows, maybe historical suspense with elements of romance and fantasy will be the next big hit! (Describing my novel, not my short stories--would have to throw in some horror and a few zombies to describe my dating life.)


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Exactly. He'd have had to spend quite a bit of money to do that. I'm not one to try to game any system (I'm a play-by-the-rules kind of girl), but with these beans spilled, I have to wonder a) how many authors have already done it, b) is Amazon going to revamp their ranking system/algorithm to prevent it in the future.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

kcmay said:


> Interesting article on how some people are manipulating the Amazon rankings: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jan/05/amazon-ebook-manipulate-kindle-rankings


That author claimed Amazon was hypocritical for removing his book. I don't see the hypocrisy. The guy was telling people how to game the system and clearly that's not in Amazon's or readers interest. So they yanked it and then put it back up with all the fake reviews gone.

Anyway, it's always been clear to me that if you could figure out a way to buy 10-15 copies of your book from different accounts in a short time you could zoom up in the rankings.


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## Julie Christensen (Oct 13, 2010)

Asher MacDonald said:


> Anyway, it's always been clear to me that if you could figure out a way to buy 10-15 copies of your book from different accounts in a short time you could zoom up in the rankings.


Famous writers do this all the time. They get special interest groups to buy their books in bulk to shoot them to the top of the best seller lists. I don't believe there is anything wrong with a small group of authors organizing to buy each others books to push up their sales rank, to get more advertising. You still have to have a good book, if you want to stay high in the ranks. Nothing wrong with a little targeted marketing to make people aware of you and your great reviews.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

With Gifting of ebooks now, all one has to do is gift the heck out of it. Offer it for free on the Amazon Kindle facebook page to the first x people who respond, and x sales all in a short period will shoot your ranking up and maybe even get you on the Movers & Shakers list.


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## Derek J. Canyon (Sep 1, 2010)

I did some analysis of the 1000+ Sales/Month Club authors and posted my results here:

Keys to epublishing success?


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## rcanepa (Jul 1, 2010)

An interesting look at the numbers.  Thanks.  Increasing my number of books available has been my goal for a while now--this is definitely another kick to do so.


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## John Hartness (Aug 3, 2009)

I agree with your post on the importance of a backlist. It's one reason within the past two days I've uploaded a short story, a poetry collection and revised my short story/narrative non-fiction collection. These aren't within the same genre as my novel work, but the more places my name can be seen, the better. I plan to release a collection of funny short non-fiction pieces within the next week or two called "Hey Y'all Watch This!," and then take a little time to release shorts while I'm finishing novel #3. Hopefully these pieces will make back what I'm spending on them, which is zero cash. So anything is a bonus!


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## rcanepa (Jul 1, 2010)

John Hartness said:


> I agree with your post on the importance of a backlist. It's one reason within the past two days I've uploaded a short story, a poetry collection and revised my short story/narrative non-fiction collection.


Only downside to the "more stuff out there!" idea is to ensure that we release quality works. Otherwise they might do more harm than good. I have some other works I can release, but of course have to spend some time going over them first and re-evaluating their worth.


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

Derek J. Canyon said:


> I did some analysis of the 1000+ Sales/Month Club authors and posted my results here:
> 
> Keys to epublishing success?


Interesting numbers.. I should have #3 (first in my zombie series) out in about 6-8 weeks. Then it's back to working on the sequel to Patriot Paradox (my other series).

I, for one, find it incredibly inspirational to see these numbers. Yeah, it's depressing to realize that that kind of success, if it comes, is probably 2-3 books down the line, but I'm in this for the long haul. Even if I weren't making money, I'd still write.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

In my case, Kinshield is the first novel I feel was good enough to publish. My previous novels stink, and would take a lot of work to get them ready. Besides, I have better ideas now.


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

kcmay said:


> The results for the KBBoTD vary widely. I don't think the average sales from a KBBoTD would come anywhere near 200, though.


I didn't seem to sell *any* extra books on the days when I sponsored the Kindle boards with a banner. I sold the same number (3) the day before and 3 the day after. It's impossible to know how many samples were downloaded and later read, but that didn't seem to work out so well for me.

I have a KBBOTD sponsorship scheduled for a month or so from now, but I doubt it will help much more than the banner did.


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

Make room for one more! I've been around since September. I averaged about 30 a month Sept -Nov then more than doubled that last month with 81. Still, that was largely due to a kindle nation sponsorship which btw I thought would bring in much bigger numbers. I spend quite a few hours a day promoting and have joined forces with a couple of indie writer groups to promote each others work. 

I believe that my cover art along with a few other monster mistakes I made in the beginning have a lot to do with my slow success. I've received few but good reviews including a "Top Pick" 5 star review from Night Owl Reviews. So I believe I've written a good story. But I still think my blurb and cover are lacking greatly. For those of you who've talked about revamping or redoing your covers do you mean you redid them entirely or just tweaked the original. I'm hesitant to change my cover only because I already did once. But it's ALWAYS on the back of my mind. 

As far as releasing another book, I'm working on it. But we all know what its like to try to find the time to write while trying to promote. Then theres that other little thing that always seems to get in the way. Life!


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

tbrookside said:


> My only real concern is my [apparent] utter inability to add "fans". My first book sells, but not my others.


I just went into the .prc file of my first book and added a preview first chapter to the next book with a link to the amazon product page. I don't know if it will help, but why not make it easy for readers to get the next book while they're thinking about it?


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## RyanMWilliams (May 28, 2010)

Me too. It seems like thinks are slowly getting better, but boy does it take time! That said I'm in this for the long haul. I keep writing, keep trying to improve and at the same time also improving on the publishing front. I've been doing free weekly ebook releases for awhile now and hopefully that helps. But I still have a ways to go before I even hit the 100 per month. December was a good month, probably the closest I've gotten, but I'd like to see it continue.


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

NoahMullette-Gillman said:


> I didn't seem to sell *any* extra books on the days when I sponsored the Kindle boards with a banner. I sold the same number (3) the day before and 3 the day after. It's impossible to know how many samples were downloaded and later read, but that didn't seem to work out so well for me.
> 
> I have a KBBOTD sponsorship scheduled for a month or so from now, but I doubt it will help much more than the banner did.


Yeah, me either. I actually didn't sell any the day of my sponsorship.
Dawn


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

I wonder if its genre related? Or maybe the audience is sick of them? 

To be fair, it could be my banner, cover, blurb, or preview, but the feedback I have gotten from readers, reviewers, and fellow authors so far argues against that....


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## Mr. RAD (Jan 4, 2011)

Add me to the list.  

I've been around for almost three weeks now and have sold only two copies of my offering.  Perhaps that isn't enough time to gauge my success or failure; however, I've read in these forums where many authors were selling at least 10 copies of their works within the first few weeks of release.  That makes me feel... well... like a loser.

Hopefully, I'll revoke my membership to the Pathetic eBook Sales Club (2 sales a month or less) and become part of more prestigious groups.  May other authors avoid this club.  Being a member sucks!


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

Mr. RAD said:


> Add me to the list.
> 
> I've been around for almost three weeks now and have sold only two copies of my offering.  Perhaps that isn't enough time to gauge my success or failure; however, I've read in these forums where many authors were selling at least 10 copies of their works within the first few weeks of release. That makes me feel... well... like a loser.
> 
> Hopefully, I'll revoke my membership to the Pathetic eBook Sales Club (2 sales a month or less) and become part of more prestigious groups. May other authors avoid this club. Being a member sucks!


When the numbers are small, ten vs. two is meaningless. Don't get hung up on it.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

EliRey said:


> Make room for one more! I've been around since September. I averaged about 30 a month Sept -Nov then more than doubled that last month with 81. Still, that was largely due to a kindle nation sponsorship which btw I thought would bring in much bigger numbers. I spend quite a few hours a day promoting and have joined forces with a couple of indie writer groups to promote each others work.
> 
> I believe that my cover art along with a few other monster mistakes I made in the beginning have a lot to do with my slow success. I've received few but good reviews including a "Top Pick" 5 star review from Night Owl Reviews. So I believe I've written a good story. But I still think my blurb and cover are lacking greatly. For those of you who've talked about revamping or redoing your covers do you mean you redid them entirely or just tweaked the original. I'm hesitant to change my cover only because I already did once. But it's ALWAYS on the back of my mind.
> 
> As far as releasing another book, I'm working on it. But we all know what its like to try to find the time to write while trying to promote. Then theres that other little thing that always seems to get in the way. Life!


Never too late to change your cover art. Ronnell on these boards does nice work at a reasonable price. And for my two cents, even as a non-romance reader, I'd say get a new cover. There's nothing enticing about the one you have. It looks like one of those syrupy sweet greeting cards elderly relatives hand out. I mean, I went to the Amazon page and your book has "some adult content." There is nothing in your cover to suggest that. In fact, your cover suggests otherwise.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> Yeah, me either. I actually didn't sell any the day of my sponsorship.
> Dawn


Don't feel bad guys. My banner was yesterday and only sold 7 copies.

KCMAY -- If you gift a book, does that show up as a sale and move you up in the rankings?


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Don't feel bad guys. My banner was yesterday and only sold 7 copies.


I just wouldn't spend the money for this again. There are so many different places now to get 30 dollars or more advertising for ONE day... not worth it to me.

Dawn


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> I just wouldn't spend the money for this again. There are so many different places now to get 30 dollars or more advertising for ONE day... not worth it to me.


There are places to advertise for an entire month for $5 or $10. Banners at the nookboards are $20 per month, but they do rotate a bunch more than here.

Dawn, I think that if the gift recipient accepts your gift book, it's a sale. If they turn it into a gift cert and buy something else, you're outta luck.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

kcmay said:


> There are places to advertise for an entire month for $5 or $10. Banners at the nookboards are $20 per month, but they do rotate a bunch more than here.
> 
> Dawn, I think that if the gift recipient accepts your gift book, it's a sale. If they turn it into a gift cert and buy something else, you're outta luck.


After spending the $40 here, I'd be reluctant to pop that much down anywhere else but Kindle Nation Daily. I don't mind spending a little cash, but has anyone had any success on these other sites? And if they have, which ones?


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> Yeah, me either. I actually didn't sell any the day of my sponsorship.
> Dawn


same here. I sold none the day of my banner for Anomaly. I'm disappointed, but I figure i at lleast owed the boards that cash anyway for all the help I've gotten here. I've tweaked my covers, rewritten the horrible blurbs and lowered prices to no real effect. I'm building, but verrrrrry slooooowwwwly. I've got decent reviews, so I too figure I might have a passable product. sigh. patience, thea, patience.

i have no doubt I should be doing more, but sheesh, I'd like to get writing again.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2011)

I've said it before: Book ads are the newest author scam.

(Hyperbole, sure, but there's some truth in it.)


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

Asher MacDonald said:


> Never too late to change your cover art. Ronnell on these boards does nice work at a reasonable price. And for my two cents, even as a non-romance reader, I'd say get a new cover. There's nothing enticing about the one you have. It looks like one of those syrupy sweet greeting cards elderly relatives hand out. I mean, I went to the Amazon page and your book has "some adult content." There is nothing in your cover to suggest that. In fact, your cover suggests otherwise.


Thank you Asher. lol I was about to post a whole new topic asking for votes on my cover. This was always supposed to be a temp. But every time I'd start working on another one I'd get so fed up I'd finally decide this ones not so bad. I think I will get someone to do it for me. Since I've spent countless hours looking through stock photo sites and free font sites. I'm so sick of it. I'd so much rather be writing!

Thanks again... runs off to look for Ronnell.


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> I've said it before: Book ads are the newest author scam.
> 
> (Hyperbole, sure, but there's some truth in it.)


I can't tell you how many emails I get each week wanting me to pay $30 or so to advertise as some random site's book of the day... 
At the very least its an example of the makers of mining equipment making more money than the miners.....


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## Sharlow (Dec 20, 2009)

LKRigel said:


> I just went into the .prc file of my first book and added a preview first chapter to the next book with a link to the amazon product page. I don't know if it will help, but why not make it easy for readers to get the next book while they're thinking about it?


I just did this with my newest book. I'm hoping to see some good results from that.


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## Sharlow (Dec 20, 2009)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> Yeah, me either. I actually didn't sell any the day of my sponsorship.
> Dawn


I haven't tried any of these yet, but I do have a virtual tour starting later this month through pump up your books. I'm hoping that will boost sales by getting me more exposure on the web.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I just finished a round of cover tweaking before I published with PubIt! 

I was amazed to have the book show up in 24 hours.

I'm hoping that I can graduate to the '1 book a day' sales club. Because 3 a month is just depressing. How do you check book rankings on B&N?

The next book is coming out soon.


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## Tanner Artesz (Feb 2, 2009)

I'll join. I average 3-5 sales a month for 3 books. I thought sales would pick up after the trilogy was complete, but they didn't. I think most of my problem is the fact that I couldn't sell a glass of water to someone dying of thirst in the middle of the desert for a penny if my life depended on it. Like many on the thread, I write fantasy and will continue to do so for the most part. I know I will never write a PNR. I don't enjoy reading them and would hate writing one. The attempt would probably be horrid as a result.

My goal at the moment is to get new readers. If 3-5 a month goes up to 5-10 a month, I would be happy (for a while, anyway). If anyone has ideas or suggestions, I'm all ears!

Tanner


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

I can't read every post in this thread so let me just respond to the starter.  Yes, I've been feeling frustrated (as far as getting my work out there) for the last eleven years or so.  Kindle has made things a lot better.  I'm not yet in the 1K Klub (use it, everyone) but I'm working as hard as the proverbial one armed paper hanger.  Maybe next month, maybe March...  I'll get there.  But until then, I'll hang out with you all and enjoy it.  Best!


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

kcmay said:


> Dawn, I think that if the gift recipient accepts your gift book, it's a sale. If they turn it into a gift cert and buy something else, you're outta luck.


Wait, what? I'm lost.
Dawn


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> I've said it before: Book ads are the newest author scam.
> 
> (Hyperbole, sure, but there's some truth in it.)


But, I thought you were running banner ads on your blog??

Dawn


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## Derek J. Canyon (Sep 1, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I just finished a round of cover tweaking before I published with PubIt!
> 
> I was amazed to have the book show up in 24 hours.
> 
> ...


KA Jordan, log in to Pubit and click the My Sales tab.


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## Jason G. Anderson (Sep 29, 2010)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> Wait, what? I'm lost.


When you gift someone an ebook, they have the option of either accepting it, or getting the cash value added to their account instead. If they accept the book, it gets counted as a sale for you. If they take the cash, there's no sale recorded.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

LOL, I will join... seeing as how I haven't sold a single copy of anything yet.

And don't give me that "you have to actually finish a novel to sell it" garbage... sick of that excuse! 

Yeah, it's late and I'm in a silly mood, procrastinating my word count for ROW80...

...better get off of here and into my manuscript or I'll be off KB for a week. (A self-imposed punishment if I don't churn out 4K a week on my novel during ROW80.)

After all, these things don't write themselves, as they say.

So my response to the mysterious, know-it-all they is: "Why the #)$( not?!?"

And just to cap off tonight's silliness... anyone think this blurb above my name would increase my sales, once I release EMBER? LOL...  jk


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

jasonga said:


> When you gift someone an ebook, they have the option of either accepting it, or getting the cash value added to their account instead. If they accept the book, it gets counted as a sale for you. If they take the cash, there's no sale recorded.


Yes, I know but I never mentioned "gifting" Kindle books so I have no idea why KC is explaining it to me. Perhaps she's talking to someone else named "Dawn"?

Dawn


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## Nicki Lynn Justice (Jan 2, 2011)

Hey!

I posted my first novel on Jan 1, and sold 2 ... to family members!!! At least it's something. 

One thing I noticed is that when I search under romantic suspense looking for my book, I get bored before I get anywhere near to where it is. So I guess just doing nothing wouldn't work well. 

Sounds like reviews really help. I would imagine you would need reviews from your customers, as well as other places. "Nightowl" was mentioned in this thread.

Does anyone know of any sites that indie authors can send an ebook to and perhaps get a review?

Or am I attaching too much importance to reviews?

Thanks,
Nicke Lynn


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## jhendereson (Oct 22, 2010)

This thread confirmed what I suspected: there's a slew of members here who don't weigh in because their numbers do not match the heavyweights. I think it's a credit to one's character when he or she can admit that their hard work has yet to produce desired results. "A club" doesn't sit well with me because it sounds restrictive, exclusive. Honestly, I love this forum. Where else can you get free info on writing and how-to-improve sales? My opinion: you gotta be a tad insane to write fiction. You know what you're putting down is not true, yet you experience the scenes, fall in love with the characters, and after all that you gotta go back and edit the dang thang. And woe to anyone who criticizes the fantasy construction. Yes, a writer has to be a tad insane. I sincerely hope everyone here on this forum accomplish their goals and much more. Best of luck to each and all.


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## JoeMitchell (Jun 6, 2010)

I keep seeing people talk about their friends and family buying their books.  Before I published, I read that a self-published book, no matter how well written, could only expect to ever sell about 50 copies, and most of those to family and friends.  I decided then that I wanted none of that, and sent a copy of my book to everyone I know, just to get that out of the way.  Every ebook I've sold was bought by a stranger.  I made sure of it.  My sister did end up buying two copies of the trade paperback though.  She donated one to her local library and told me about it later.


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## MosesSiregarIII (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm coming to the conclusion that relatively traditional fantasy is a feast or famine genre to write in. Among indies, you've got your Sullivan, Pratt, Dalglish, (Ty) Johnston, and Larson (I think he belongs there--not sure). These folks are reaching tons of readers.

And then you've got your unwashed masses. There isn't a whole lot of middle ground.

It's a bit like that in traditional publishing, too. You've got your Martin, Jordan/Sanderson, Goodkind, Brooks, Rothfuss, Erikson, and so on. Those dudes are rock stars, generally with hugely successful series. And then you've got your midlist.

If you get over the hump into breakout territory, it's GREAT. If not, it's not so great.

You can sort of say that for any genre, but I think it's truer of more traditional fantasy.


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## Jason G. Anderson (Sep 29, 2010)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> Yes, I know but I never mentioned "gifting" Kindle books so I have no idea why KC is explaining it to me. Perhaps she's talking to someone else named "Dawn"?


Looks like KC mixed up who asked the question - the original poster was in post 123.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2011)

jhendereson said:


> "A club" doesn't sit well with me because it sounds restrictive, exclusive.


This is how I feel as well.



Dawn McCullough White said:


> But, I thought you were running banner ads on your blog??
> 
> Dawn


That should tell you right off it's a scam!


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

> Before I published, I read that a self-published book, no matter how well written, could only expect to ever sell about 50 copies, and most of those to family and friends. I decided then that I wanted none of that, and sent a copy of my book to everyone I know, just to get that out of the way. Every ebook I've sold was bought by a stranger. I made sure of it.


That's a great policy. I gave out a bunch to my family, but my grandmother insisted on paying, despite my protests. In my opinion, the real frustration with giving books to family is that they only thing inside the book that a lot of them seem interested in reading is signature.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

jasonga said:


> Looks like KC mixed up who asked the question - the original poster was in post 123.


Oopsie! That'll teach me to post when I'm... uh... not paying attention!


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## JL Bryan (Aug 10, 2010)

Dawn McCullough White said:


> But, I thought you were running banner ads on your blog??
> 
> Dawn


But Jason does it ironically.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I had a sale on B&N!

My first sale this year. My sales are so pathetic - e-books sold like hotcakes. B&N is getting hit so hard their software crashes - and I had no sales until today.



This is going to be my game changer:

Swallow the Moon


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2011)

JL Bryan said:


> But Jason does it ironically.


Haha, and that makes all the difference. As long as you're doing it to mock other people, that makes it ok.


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## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

JL Bryan said:


> But Jason does it ironically.


lol yeah... that was me being "funny".

Dawn


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

JoeMitchell said:


> I keep seeing people talk about their friends and family buying their books. Before I published, I read that a self-published book, no matter how well written, could only expect to ever sell about 50 copies, and most of those to family and friends. I decided then that I wanted none of that, and sent a copy of my book to everyone I know, just to get that out of the way. Every ebook I've sold was bought by a stranger. I made sure of it. My sister did end up buying two copies of the trade paperback though. She donated one to her local library and told me about it later.


I have done the same thing. My F&F all get signed copies of the paperback. Plus none of them own kindles, or other ebook readers.

I may not be selling in the thousands just yet...

However, I am not entirely disappointed. I'm a n00b at this ebook thing, after all.

I just need to get better at marketing...
And, maybe re-do a couple of my covers.


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## WestofMars (Sep 16, 2009)

You know, gifting books to the family is a smart idea. (My mom insists on paying for them anyway. I don't argue, since print copies are way more expensive than digital copies. Go figure.) And now I'm mulling over ideas of how to get people to donate print copies to their local libraries...

For all the low sales, we've got some slick ideas happening here. 

Oh, and for the record, I do well at B&N. I funnel sales through Smashwords; I figure the 10% in royalty I give up outweighs the trouble all you guys seem to be having, with formatting and sales reports and such. But I'm still not in the 1k club yet. Trevor's a hard sell -- once people meet him, they love him. But getting them over that initial hurdle seems tough.


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## Victoria lane &amp; R.T. Fox (Nov 10, 2009)

Wow a group for me I have been writing for so long and still can get it going. But one day someone will fine my books and like them. Now it time HELP HELP. Ha Hi at least I can still laugh


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

This may turn out to be a really dumb idea, but I decided to try an experiment. I've got some targeted marketing going on right now to give away copies of Venom. If I give away 300 copies, and 10% of the people read it, that's 30 more people who're talking about my book on Facebook, whatever forums they visit, to their friends, and so on. Compared with potentially tens (or hundreds!) of thousands of readers, a few hundred freebies is a drop in the bucket. I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of buyers are people who won't ever see my Facebook posts or tweets or blog. The buzz I generate now may fizzle when the promo is over, but hopefully I'll have gotten a few more readers in that time -- readers who are social media types that enjoy talking about books with others. 

I'll let you know how it goes.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I haven't been making many comments but am reading. I took my B&N away from Smashwords and will put my book through pubit. Does anyone have any idea how you sell in B&N? I gave away hundreds of copies on Smashwords when I started, and I do not think that generated one sale or review. This week I gifted six copies from Us to UK don't know if that helped or not, but I've paid $30.00 for an ad and sold 4. This way I pay ~$6.00 minus my royalty, I sell 6 if they accept the gift and pick up some good Karma in UK. Don't know if that helped or not, have five returns this month, prior to that had only one or maybe two since the beginning.
As for relatives --none of my relatives could figure out how to download my book I gave them free copies and I don'tthink any of my friends bought either. All my sales are strangers except those I gift.
Ann


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

kcmay said:


> This may turn out to be a really dumb idea, but I decided to try an experiment. I've got some targeted marketing going on right now to give away copies of Venom. If I give away 300 copies, and 10% of the people read it, that's 30 more people who're talking about my book on Facebook, whatever forums they visit, to their friends, and so on. Compared with potentially tens (or hundreds!) of thousands of readers, a few hundred freebies is a drop in the bucket. I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of buyers are people who won't ever see my Facebook posts or tweets or blog. The buzz I generate now may fizzle when the promo is over, but hopefully I'll have gotten a few more readers in that time -- readers who are social media types that enjoy talking about books with others.
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes.


Are you talking about gifting 300 copies, or just e-mailing them freebies?


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Are you talking about gifting 300 copies, or just e-mailing them freebies?


Oh no -- I'm talking Smashwords coupons.  I've had a great response so far. Yesterday I gave away 25 copies. Today 89 so far. I hope to reach 300 by the time my promo is over, but more would be good, too. Yesterday, most of the people were coming from Facebook. I'll be curious what Google Analytics has to say about today's hits. I send people to my web site to get the download & coupon info so I can track where they're coming from. This tells me where my marketing efforts are most effective.

The side benefit that I didn't realize when I started this is that Smashwords registers these freebies as sales. Thus, the book is the 4th best-selling full-length book on Smashwords at the moment. I feel like such a cheater!


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## WestofMars (Sep 16, 2009)

KC, why do you think so many of us love Smashwords so much  

I'm curious to hear how this is going to work out for you. Please keep us posted!


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

I know the reason I like smashwords is because they give you the option of putting stuff free. Now if amazon would let you put stuff free, that would be a different story.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

kcmay said:


> This may turn out to be a really dumb idea, but I decided to try an experiment.


I don't think there's any such thing as a dumb idea when it comes to book promotion--we're all just floundering around trying to find the magic formula. And that's just the thing...I'm so glad Joe started this thread, because it has confirmed for me what I've suspected all along: we can keep tweaking our covers, our blurbs, our blogs, our sigs, and of course, our books, but at some point, there's just an element of good fortune over which we have no control.

I've at least sampled many of y'all's books, so I know this is not a thread full of hacks. You're talented, creative, and heaven knows, hard-working people. IMHO, many of the authors in this thread are every bit as good as the authors ranking near the top at Amazon. In most cases, the only reason they're there, and you're here is some serendipitous happenstance that no amount of blogging or forum-posting or Facebooking can create.

I'm not saying you should stop trying--you can't win if you don't play--but we should all stop beating ourselves up for not making the 1K "cut". As previous posters have pointed out, I've sold a lot more books since I published last summer than I did the whole five years before!

 Maria


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

foreverjuly said:


> Haha, and that makes all the difference. As long as you're doing it to mock other people, that makes it ok.


If banners are scams, and you're already posting a bundle on Kindle Boards, then what's a non scam way to promote?


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## Julie Christensen (Oct 13, 2010)

Even though my first book is selling really well, my second, Seaching For Meredith Love, is going more slowly.  So, I just offered 25 free review copies to anyone who was willing to write a review after reading.  I posted it in the Book Bazaar and on the Kindle Facebook page.  I got an instantaneous response from FB.  23 people immediately responded.  I also got two responses on Book Bazaar.  I had planned to send people my mobi file, but after a couple of posts on this thread, and a comment from a FB kindle owner about how to upload files, I decided to gift them the book instead.  When I began, my book rank was 90,747.  A few hours later, it was 5,052.  This is a big deal, because as KC and Victorine have said, Amazon starts promoting you once you reach a certain rank.  Plus, if I get even half of these readers to review my book, I'll have 12 reviews!  So, folks, something to think about in terms of getting yourself higher in ranks to start selling more.  It cost me 25 bucks!  And if these readers like my book, maybe they will buy my other one.  Not a bad deal, I'd say


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## kayegeorge (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm brand new on Kindleboards and easily fall into this category! I also want to test the signature, picture, whatever stuff I just did and see what it looks like. I have a short story collection on Kindle now, but it's a warm up for when I put my novel there next summer. It will be traditionally published in May, then I plan to convert it to ebook and make it available there, too.


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

Julie Christensen said:


> When I began, my book rank was 90,747. A few hours later, it was 5,052. This is a big deal, because as KC and Victorine have said, Amazon starts promoting you once you reach a certain rank. Plus, if I get even half of these readers to review my book, I'll have 12 reviews! So, folks, something to think about in terms of getting yourself higher in ranks to start selling more. It cost me 25 bucks! And if these readers like my book, maybe they will buy my other one. Not a bad deal, I'd say


Yep! If your book is 99c, it's one way to get the ball rolling. Some of us have spent more than that for advertising that didn't pay off, so $50 for a guaranteed bump in the ranking -- can't knock it! One can hope that it'll kick off other sales.

But the thing to remember is that it's not *all* about rankings. People somewhere are talking about and recommending the top books to others. Ever hang out in a book-related forum and count how many times The Hunger Games is mentioned? A ton. My guess is that people talking about a book spurs many more sales than mere Amazon rankings.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

kcmay said:


> Yep! If your book is 99c, it's one way to get the ball rolling. Some of us have spent more than that for advertising that didn't pay off, so $50 for a guaranteed bump in the ranking -- can't knock it! One can hope that it'll kick off other sales.
> 
> But the thing to remember is that it's not *all* about rankings. People somewhere are talking about and recommending the top books to others. Ever hang out in a book-related forum and count how many times The Hunger Games is mentioned? A ton. My guess is that people talking about a book spurs many more sales than mere Amazon rankings.


It's a chicken and egg kind of thing though. How many people were mentioning the Hunger Games when it was ranked 60,000th? But if you're in the low 1000's or 100's, there's more people to mention your book.

Amazon sends me recommendations by email for example, and a couple of weeks ago I got one that recommended I buy Imogen Rose's Portal Series. That probably happened because her rank is good. So yeah, if gifting $50 worth of books is going to make for an awesome rank, I'd say it's well worth it.


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## JoeMitchell (Jun 6, 2010)

Julie Christensen said:


> When I began, my book rank was 90,747. A few hours later, it was 5,052. This is a big deal, because as KC and Victorine have said, Amazon starts promoting you once you reach a certain rank.


That is very interesting and useful information, Julie! Thanks for posting that. This gifting books as part of an honest promotion seems like a good way to boost your rank from obscurity up to where books that are selling reside. I like this idea because it's good for everyone involved and isn't really gaming the system. Please keep us updated on how this affects your book's rating, if it stays up there or sinks back down over time. If it stays or gets better, that might be a clear indication of Amazon helping out by showing your book to more people.


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## Sharlow (Dec 20, 2009)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I had a sale on B&N!
> 
> My first sale this year. My sales are so pathetic - e-books sold like hotcakes. B&N is getting hit so hard their software crashes - and I had no sales until today.
> 
> ...


I think you should start writing fantasy if you don't already, and then put on your covers your last name and not your first, just like Swallow the Moon. People see that fantasy font and the name Jordan, and boom, a whole bunch of people will be checking your work out that may not of before.


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## mattposner (Oct 28, 2010)

meromana said:


> I don't think there's any such thing as a dumb idea when it comes to book promotion--we're all just floundering around trying to find the magic formula. And that's just the thing...I'm so glad Joe started this thread, because it has confirmed for me what I've suspected all along: we can keep tweaking our covers, our blurbs, our blogs, our sigs, and of course, our books, but at some point, there's just an element of good fortune over which we have no control.
> I've at least sampled many of y'all's books, so I know this is not a thread full of hacks. You're talented, creative, and heaven knows, hard-working people. IMHO, many of the authors in this thread are every bit as good as the authors ranking near the top at Amazon. In most cases, the only reason they're there, and you're here is some serendipitous happenstance that no amount of blogging or forum-posting or Facebooking can create.
> I'm not saying you should stop trying--you can't win if you don't play--but we should all stop beating ourselves up for not making the 1K "cut". As previous posters have pointed out, I've sold a lot more books since I published last summer than I did the whole five years before!
> 
> Maria


Yes, Maria, there is no magic formula. You try whatever you can and wait for luck. Nothing works until it works. Talented people here moved on from print publishing due to random elements, not lack of being deserving. Thanks for saying it so well.

Matt


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## Author Eyes (Nov 26, 2009)

I too, am late to join this club. When _Radium Halos_ came out last year, there was initial interest, but nothing like what I'd hoped. I've been struggling and juggling a day job in the middle, trying to find ways to get the word out to new readers.

One thing that occurred to me late in the game is that since the novel takes place in a small town in Illinois, and is based on a true story, I have started promoting it more heavily in that state, and particularly in the Chicago area. That seems to be making a difference.

With _Celebrities for Breakfast_, I get feedback and reviews that people enjoy it, but I have a feeling it appeals more to an older demographic, and most of them don't read ebooks!! Looks like we might be releasing it in the future as a paperback as well.

Best of luck to all of us!


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

Sharlow said:


> I think you should start writing fantasy if you don't already, and then put on your covers your last name and not your first, just like Swallow the Moon. People see that fantasy font and the name Jordan, and boom, a whole bunch of people will be checking your work out that may not of before.


I think I should use my husband's name - he's Robert Jordan.


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

Fellow posters beware!
Since I started this thread three days ago, my fairly consistent daily sales of 3-4 books per day have dropped to 1 per day (my lowest rate ever!!) 

Maybe it's not such a good idea after all to be telling the world we are *not* top sellers? People like to buy what's hot, and we're admitting we are just warm.

Okay, I take it all back! I'm really selling tens of thousands of books per month, it's just that I didn't want to brag about it!
My book is so HOT right, you had better buy it before a publisher forces me to charge $20 for it!

Will that help? Is the big "L" any less visible on my forehead?


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

Julie Christensen said:


> Even though my first book is selling really well, my second, Seaching For Meredith Love, is going more slowly. So, I just offered 25 free review copies to anyone who was willing to write a review after reading. I posted it in the Book Bazaar and on the Kindle Facebook page. I got an instantaneous response from FB. 23 people immediately responded. I also got two responses on Book Bazaar. I had planned to send people my mobi file, but after a couple of posts on this thread, and a comment from a FB kindle owner about how to upload files, I decided to gift them the book instead. When I began, my book rank was 90,747. A few hours later, it was 5,052. This is a big deal, because as KC and Victorine have said, Amazon starts promoting you once you reach a certain rank. Plus, if I get even half of these readers to review my book, I'll have 12 reviews! So, folks, something to think about in terms of getting yourself higher in ranks to start selling more. It cost me 25 bucks! And if these readers like my book, maybe they will buy my other one. Not a bad deal, I'd say


Indeed, if they accept the book, and it seems they have from the jump in rankings, it is a very good promotion. You spent $25 -- that's less then you'd spend for an ad on these boards, and I know those ads don't always result in 25 sales. I think it's a smart promotion. I hope people don't figure out they can get Amazon to give them a gift card instead. That would be my only worry if this becomes a common marketing tactic.


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I think I should use my husband's name - he's Robert Jordan.


Ha ha. Man, there's an indie author with the last name of Patterson and I was curious about how that was working out. I went to Amazon and did a search in books on "Patterson" and his book popped up in a middle of a list of James Patterson's books! His name was even sort of done like it was on a few of Patterson's books, with the first name small and the last name in big letters.

How good is that? To have your book displayed right in the middle of a list of James Patterson's books? And on the first page of results too!


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

Joseph Rhea said:


> Maybe it's not such a good idea after all to be telling the world we are *not* top sellers? People like to buy what's hot, and we're admitting we are just warm.
> 
> Okay, I take it all back! I'm really selling tens of thousands of books per month, it's just that I didn't want to brag about it!
> My book is so HOT right, you had better buy it before a publisher forces me to charge $20 for it!
> ...


You're inferring an interesting question for those of us who don't sell too many books: how big a percentage of our current buyers are simply members of this Kindleboard? Or, is that something we needn't worry about/depend on?


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

Christopher Bunn said:


> You're inferring an interesting question for those of us who don't sell too many books: how big a percentage of our current buyers are simply members of this Kindleboard? Or, is that something we needn't worry about/depend on?


Well, it's more than that. I know first hand that this site and these discussions are read by quite a few people who are not members. By "first hand" I mean that things I have stated here have been quoted by several outside sources--once last year by a UK new organization and just last month by a Japanese blogger. You'll find the quote, "A science-fiction author named Joseph Rhea appears to have been the first to notice the change. On Jan. 15, Amazon announced an expansion of its Digital Text Platform to non-U.S. authors, but made no mention of DRM changes" all over the place. And that's just one quote--there have been many more.

Lots of people are reading what we write here. Sometimes that's good, sometimes, not so much...


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## Julie Christensen (Oct 13, 2010)

Asher MacDonald said:


> I think it's a smart promotion. I hope people don't figure out they can get Amazon to give them a gift card instead. That would be my only worry if this becomes a common marketing tactic.


I realized that might happen, but I figured, anyone who tries to cheat me out of 99 cents is too low for me to worry about. Plus, I think most people have good intentions. The post on FB was moved down so fast by other posts that I got all of my respones in about an hour, and then nothing. Many of them also emailed back to tell me they had gotten the book, which I thought was really nice.


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

I just saw this thread. Most of you are way ahead of me. Nothing I have out is a hot genre. I like paranormal, but romance is icky. My best potential seller is tied up with my agent, who is getting a lot of polite rejections. If her contract runs out with no results, it will be up on Amazon soon after that.


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## DavidRM (Sep 21, 2010)

Joseph Rhea said:


> Fellow posters beware!
> Since I started this thread three days ago, my fairly consistent daily sales of 3-4 books per day have dropped to 1 per day (my lowest rate ever!!)
> 
> Maybe it's not such a good idea after all to be telling the world we are *not* top sellers? People like to buy what's hot, and we're admitting we are just warm.


I don't think I've even posted on this thread...but my sales this week have been a bit sparser than I like. Maybe just *reading* this thread is eroding our standings... 

"Fooled by Randomness" is a great book to read if you find yourself looking for reasons why one day's sales are up or down from another day's. We humans try very hard to apply meaning to meaningless data. 

-David


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

DavidRM said:


> "Fooled by Randomness" is a great book to read if you find yourself looking for reasons why one day's sales are up or down from another day's. We humans try very hard to apply meaning to meaningless data.
> 
> -David


I'm a science/math/programmer guy and spend a lot of time each day dealing with chaos, chance, and random numbers. Also your statement that "humans try very hard to apply meaning to meaningless data" is almost a direct quote from one of the characters in my book. Is that a random happenstance?


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## DavidRM (Sep 21, 2010)

Joseph Rhea said:


> I'm a science/math/programmer guy and spend a lot of time each day dealing with chaos, chance, and random numbers. Also your statement that "humans try very hard to apply meaning to meaningless data" is almost a direct quote from one of the characters in my book. Is that a random happenstance?


Well, you know, the way *I* perceived it, your character's quote (B) came *after* my post (A), and everyone knows that if B follows A, A caused B... 

I'm a software guy, myself. Been a professional programmer for nearly 20 years. I'll pull the sample for your book and give it a whirl. If people are quoting me, I want to know who they are...

-David


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## Joseph Rhea (Nov 9, 2009)

DavidRM said:


> Well, you know, the way *I* perceived it, your character's quote (B) came *after* my post (A), and everyone knows that if B follows A, A caused B...
> 
> I'm a software guy, myself. Been a professional programmer for nearly 20 years. I'll pull the sample for your book and give it a whirl. If people are quoting me, I want to know who they are...
> 
> -David


[geek/on]

As a programmer, you gain some geek-points by going here - it describes the computer games & simulations that came before my book. I still drive around inside the "real" Cyberdrome from time to time these days, watching the life forms evolving inside (using genetic algorithms), and wonder if I might create the world of my own story someday... 

[geek/off]


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

Irony - I'm selling books on B&N - but I have no idea how many. 

Howabout I change my name to Roberta Jordan Patterson?


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> Irony - I'm selling books on B&N - but I have no idea how many.
> 
> Howabout I change my name to Roberta Jordan Patterson?


Or you could just go by Larsson. I think he'll have three of the top ten for the next year. Too bad he's not around to appreciate it.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Or you could just go by Larsson. I think he'll have three of the top ten for the next year. Too bad he's not around to appreciate it.


And speaking of cause & effect....many wonder if Larsson's books would have been a fraction as popular (or ever been published) had he not died first...


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## Tanner Artesz (Feb 2, 2009)

izanobu said:


> Tanner- my suggestion would be to commission a professional artist/designer to do covers for you. I think that would be the easiest improvement. Your covers don't draw me in, personally, and don't seem unified or to scream "epic fantasy trilogy". I know others have had good luck getting more sales by improving the covers, so that's my suggestion from looking at your books.


Thank you, Izanobu. I totally agree with you about my covers. They definitely lack draw appeal. I will work on that forthwith!

Tanner


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## Sharlow (Dec 20, 2009)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I think I should use my husband's name - he's Robert Jordan.


How cool is that! That's exactly what i was thinking for who's name yours looked like. Caught my eye like a shot as I like Robert Jordan's work.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

Sharlow said:


> How cool is that! That's exactly what i was thinking for who's name yours looked like. Caught my eye like a shot as I like Robert Jordan's work.


hehehehe. If only I wrote fantasy instead of women's fiction....


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## Manley (Nov 14, 2010)

meromana said:


> And speaking of cause & effect....many wonder if Larsson's books would have been a fraction as popular (or ever been published) had he not died first...


That's an interesting question, and might be true. I haven't read them, but I know they are quite popular. Sadly, there are tons of authors and other artists who never achieve fame until after death...kinda sucks for them and their families.

Also, in reply to original posting, I'm selling about 1-2 books per day of Bloated Goat. That is the only book I currently have out, and for now, I am fine with those numbers. Just like the OP, I have a different full-time career, and so selling books to make a profit isn't important.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Manley said:


> That's an interesting question, and might be true. I haven't read them, but I know they are quite popular. Sadly, there are tons of authors and other artists who never achieve fame until after death...kinda sucks for them and their families.


A couple months ago, my husband stumbled upon a story of the untimely death of a woman with a name similar to mine. He wondered (tongue-in-cheek) if perhaps people would think she was me, and that my book might jump to #1 on Amazon as a result. A rather extreme method of promotion, but not out of the question...

 Maria


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I am trying to give away some free books on Twitter and Facebbok. I'm getting zilch response. Got great response from UK and not bad response from US. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?
Ann


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## kcmay (Jul 14, 2010)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I am trying to give away some free books on Twitter and Facebbok. I'm getting zilch response. Got great response from UK and not bad response from US. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?
> Ann


Did you post the giveaway info on the Amazon Kindle and/or nook walls? I did - a short post without an image or glaring link thing - once or twice per day. So far, I've gotten a terrific response.

Here's what I did:

1. Post on FB that I'm giving away copies of my (genre) (title). Give them the link to my web site. You could instead ask them to PM you their email address and do it privately.
2. On the home page of my web site I added the download link to Smashwords and the coupon code along with my "terms" (don't copy the file and email it to friends).

This way, Google Analytics tells me where traffic is coming from (the vast majority from FB, a handful from twitter, etc.) and what they click on once they get to my site. Many go exploring to see what else I've written, and a few have also downloaded my novella and/or purchased Kinshield. Smashwords, of course, tells me how many copies were "purchased" with the coupon code. I can compare GA with SW and see what percentage of people who go to my web site actually download the book.

Once this experiment is over, I'll compile data and share it with y'all.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Thanks for the info.
Ann


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## Paul Clayton (Sep 12, 2009)

Count me in (the club), Joe.  For me things have been steady, which is nice.  There seem to be these mesas that you reach.  Sometimes you're on them a long while, sometimes you fall off.  I've had major spikes in sales, but things seem to be pretty steady, especially for White Seed, at around 500 +/- a month, which I'm very happy with.  Sure I'd like 500 sales a day, but I'm not going to beat myself up because I haven't achieved that yet.  I believe I'm building an audience and there will be more books.  And no, I'm not going to change course and start writing in the trend genre of the moment.  Slow and steady... as you know.


Best!


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