# 'Write every day' and other bad advice



## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

My personal writing philosophy is to treat every piece of writing advice as merely an opinion and to question and test the ones that I think might help me. 

'Write every day' is the one piece of 'conventional writing wisdom' that people espouse as though it is a fact and it annoys the hell out of me. By all means, write every day if you want to, but it's not a one-size-fits-all method that will make you a better writer. The only certainty if you follow this 'rule' is that you will write every day. Good for you.

My advice - which is only an opinion, remember - is to question closely all writing advice to check if it is right for you, as an independent creative individual, or only to the person whacking you over the head with it.  For example, I find most of the advice given by Stephen King, one of my all time favourite authors, to be useless. Why? Because I'm not Stephen King.

I invite you to post any other set-in-stone pieces of advice here so we can kick the crap out of them and see if they are of any use


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Tell your partner you love them every day.

But only if you do love them.


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## The Bass Bagwhan (Mar 9, 2014)

Never kill (off) the dog...


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## SeanDGolden (Jan 28, 2015)

"A real writer doesn't care about making money, they write because their demons make them write."


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## bwcolborne (Jun 11, 2014)

adverbs are evil(ly)!!!!!


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## Ian Jaymes (Jan 22, 2015)

never draw to an inside straight.

oh wait... wrong forum.


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## Gone Girl (Mar 7, 2015)

We miss you, Harvey Chute.


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

buy low, sell high, and never invest in internet stocks?

Write every day is excellent advice for those of us who are plodders, working every day to get a few more words out. Of course, the extreme other end of the spectrum holds John Ringo, who only writes when the muse strikes. Once it does, he will write  literally up to 20,000 words/day, sometimes forgoing minor things like food and sleep (but not coffee). At over three million books in print, it clearly works fine.

It takes all kinds to feed the readers!


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Glad to hear not everyone manages to write every day, no matter how seriously they take their work.


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

I tend to be a binge writer. I'll go through phases of writing 5000+ a day, then a month (or more) of nothing. 

I'm not sure if this is good or not? How much is my creative process & how much is a lack of discipline that is hindering me? 

I'm all for breaking the rules but I like to be sure of my reasons for doing it. 

In other news:

"Write what you know" is my pet piece of totally misunderstood & misapplied advice.


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## Joseph J Bailey (Jun 28, 2013)

Avoid purple prose.

I prefer indigo.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

You must use an editor.


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

SeanDGolden said:


> "A real writer doesn't care about making money, they write because their demons make them write."


My demons are mean bastards!


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Size doesn't matter.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Only write in the most popular genres. Writers in niche genres do not make any money.

No!


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## Jane Killick (Aug 29, 2014)

Treat advice on writing as advice and not a rule.

So, someone advises you, if you want to be a writer, you should write every day. You look at the experience of that person, you think about the idea, you see the logic, so you try it. But you find it doesn't work for you. That is fine.

Another person advises writing in a series. You give it a go and it's a success! That's wonderful.


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## Konstantine (Apr 13, 2015)

SteveHarrison said:


> My personal writing philosophy is to treat every piece of writing advice as merely an opinion and to question and test the ones that I think might help me.
> 
> 'Write every day' is the one piece of 'conventional writing wisdom' that people espouse as though it is a fact and it annoys the hell out of me. By all means, write every day if you want to, but it's not a one-size-fits-all method that will make you a better writer. The only certainty if you follow this 'rule' is that you will write every day. Good for you.
> 
> ...


Following (the) King's advice would help us _become _like him, if we were diligent at it. I cannot see how advice like "writing 90% of your sentences in active and not passive" or "write 2,000 words a day no matter what" could be useless. And the thing about 'writing everyday will make you better', is a misunderstanding. No one ever really claimed that this will necessarily make you "better". But it _will_ make you more prolific. We all know that getting that first draft down (even if it's total sh*t) is a goal that a big % of writers do not even reach. I think the advice to write everyday is geared toward helping a writer reach that goal and not to be a better writer, per se. There are _so _many more things that are needed to make one a better writer. I only wrote this, by the way, for the benefit of any people reading this thread; it's not against the OP himself. Because I know that many budding writers can benefit from King's advice, so we wouldn't want to turn someone off from looking into it 

As for your request to mention other supposedly set-in-stone advice...um, I guess the one about 'not needing to outline a novel' is something I don't get. Sure, not everyone gives this advice, but I can't see how we can write in a stream of consciousness manner and expect to get anywhere meaningful. Ironically, I'm pretty sure King espouses this philosophy, too, doesn't he? lol


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

Konstantine said:


> As for your request to mention other supposedly set-in-stone advice...um, I guess the one about 'not needing to outline a novel' is something I don't get. Sure, not everyone gives this advice, but I can't see how we can write in a stream of consciousness manner and expect to get anywhere meaningful. Ironically, I'm pretty sure King espouses this philosophy, too, doesn't he? lol


I both agree and disagree, depending on what we mean by outlining. It depends on your process, the way your brain works etc. Sometimes outlining kills it for some people - or at least outlining in too much detail. I think plotting vs pantsing is a spectrum, not an either/or.

I suspect even most pantsers have some idea when they start writing. It may not be fleshed out or complete, but that's an outline all the same. And even if they don't know the conclusion, at some point during the process they'll work it out. And there's always rewriting and editing.

But even if it is almost completely steam of consciousness, the brain is an amazing thing. I've let my story have its way and noticed foreshadowing and events leading into other things that I didn't even realise I was putting in at the time. Creative people's brains tend to have a way of creating meaning and connection between things, even if they aren't fully conscious of doing it at the time.

So I don't think we can say nothing meaningful can be written that way. Some people flourish with the outline, some with letting their subconscious have free rein for a bit. Or, a mixture of both.


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## Douglas Milewski (Jul 4, 2014)

Wait until your ready.

In every art and sport, except writing, you learn to present immediately. For your first piano recital, you are bad. At your first little league game, you are bad. Your first performance will be bad. The experience is necessary to build your skills. Same with writing. Don't wait until you're good. You need to learn the game just as much as you need to develop your writing.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

I keep being told that I need to sacrifice goats, and it was no help what-so-ever!

Even sacrificing bunnies didnt do anything at all for my writing or my sales, and everyone swore that would work.

But the sky-clad dancing under a full moon was a winner!

So I recommend you ignore the sacrificing bit (though I have yet to try a pony which I heard might do the trick) and just get naked and howl at the moon. If the press catch you doing it then weirdly I found that that helps sales even more, yay!


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Some stuff is helpful, but the truth is no one really knows what they're doing. There are no "real" rules when it comes to writing. Balance is my favorite word, you need to find it in your life and writing. 

And everyone knows the Amazon gods have an unquenchable thirst for unicorn blood. Come on, Evenstar


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

Evenstar said:


> So I recommend you ignore the sacrificing bit (though I have yet to try a pony which I heard might do the trick) and just get naked and howl at the moon. If the press catch you doing it then weirdly I found that that helps sales even more, yay!


Ha! That's my strategy and I'm sticking to it goddamit!


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

There are two golden rules when it comes to writing.

But no one knows what they are.

My personal bugbear is: "Write drunk. Edit sober."

I can assure you it's entirely possible to do both of them drunk...


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

You are a one, Andrew.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I try


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

Based on the advice given here I tried the sky clad dancing and howling at the moon thing. My neighbours are sueing!

Cheers, Greg.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Based on the advice given here I tried the sky clad dancing and howling at the moon thing. My neighbours are sueing!
> 
> Cheers, Greg.


Maybe because you're not Evenstar....


Betsy


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

I like the advice to write every day. Certainly, while producing a first draft that system works for me.

My least favorite advice is "write what you know." That's all I do, write what I _don't_ know: historical, suspense, sf, fantasy.


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

No I think it has more to do with a sudden, unexplained and completely coincidental outbreak of hysterical blindness!

Cheers, Greg.


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## doolittle03 (Feb 13, 2015)

"Write books that people want to read."

No one knows what that is until the books sell. 

As they say: If it works, you're golden. If not, you're a bum.


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## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

Konstantine said:


> Following (the) King's advice would help us _become _like him, if we were diligent at it. I cannot see how advice like "writing 90% of your sentences in active and not passive" or "write 2,000 words a day no matter what" could be useless. And the thing about 'writing everyday will make you better', is a misunderstanding. No one ever really claimed that this will necessarily make you "better". But it _will_ make you more prolific. We all know that getting that first draft down (even if it's total sh*t) is a goal that a big % of writers do not even reach. I think the advice to write everyday is geared toward helping a writer reach that goal and not to be a better writer, per se. There are _so _many more things that are needed to make one a better writer. I only wrote this, by the way, for the benefit of any people reading this thread; it's not against the OP himself. Because I know that many budding writers can benefit from King's advice, so we wouldn't want to turn someone off from looking into it
> 
> As for your request to mention other supposedly set-in-stone advice...um, I guess the one about 'not needing to outline a novel' is something I don't get. Sure, not everyone gives this advice, but I can't see how we can write in a stream of consciousness manner and expect to get anywhere meaningful. Ironically, I'm pretty sure King espouses this philosophy, too, doesn't he? lol


That's a good response. I have no problem with anyone giving advice - the good stuff can save you a lot of time and grief - but it's the presentation of an opinion about writing as fact and the assumption of one-size-fits-all solutions which really annoys me. If something is accepted as truth without being questioned, it stifles individuality and prevents writers from find their own voice. But, hey, that's my opinion.


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## Kevin Lee Swaim (May 30, 2014)

Never fry bacon while naked.

Ignore that advice at your own peril.


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## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

Kevin Lee Swaim said:


> Never fry bacon while naked.
> 
> Ignore that advice at your own peril.


Even I wouldn't question that advice...


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

jcthatsme said:


> But even if it is almost completely steam of consciousness, the brain is an amazing thing. I've let my story have its way and noticed foreshadowing and events leading into other things that I didn't even realise I was putting in at the time. Creative people's brains tend to have a way of creating meaning and connection between things, even if they aren't fully conscious of doing it at the time.


So true. I tend to splatter the opening chapters with all sorts of not-fully-resolved references that later throw up some interesting connections. The current WIP derives from a throw-away line from two books earlier. And sometimes the foreshadowing happens without any conscious intervention, which seems miraculous when it happens, especially when it resolves a tricky plot conundrum.

To get back on topic, I actually think the advice to write every day is good advice for anyone who otherwise has trouble finishing a book. It gets you into the habit of writing and (maybe more importantly) of setting aside time for writing. If the writing is entirely optional then there's a good chance it won't happen.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I think the best advice is if some piece of advice or truth doesn't work for you, don't panic. It doesn't mean you can't still make it, it just means you have to find another way. I too do not and cannot write every day. I can let myself get depressed about my lack of consistency, or I can give up that nonexistent goal and stick with what DOES work for me, and that's tracking progress per project with deadlines for specific milestones. I do remember as a young writer thinking I was a poser or something because I didn't feel the urge to write some fiction every single day.


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## Raquel Lyon (Mar 3, 2012)

The 'write what you know' thing didn't work for me. Adding parts to my stories about things that have actually happened to me has resulted in readers saying that they're unbelievable and people wouldn't act like that! Ho-hum.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

Advice is just advice.

It's not an edict or a law or even passive-aggressive manipulation. It's meant to help those who seek it out. If you don't need advice, why go looking for it? 








A lot of people need advice to help them get started. Eventually, we all decide what works for us. That doesn't make it "bad".


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

But it's not just advice, it's exchanging ideas. It helps to know how others write, how they want to write, and why they write like they do. Personally, I think that having an insight into how others write definitely helps me with my writing, even if I completely reject the methods they use.


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

I figured anyone who chimed in with a comment/advice was giving an opinion, not a fact.

Do we need to start prefacing things with 'IMHO'? Is that something that is no longer understood as implicit?


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Its not a bad advice.

Especially if you add a "Try to" at the start of it. It helps. You practice writing, and sometimes editing is part of that process too. By doing it everyday you make sure other things in your life don't get in the way of you doing what you like. Even once sentence is enough. Even if its bad. You can edit it out later on a better day, when you have more/better inspiration. The point is to practice. And I'm sure that was a good rule back when some of you were in literature/writing classes. It shouldn't be a bad rule all of a sudden.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Alex Volta said:


> Its not a bad advice.
> 
> Especially if you add a "Try to" at the start of it.


Do. Or do not. There is no try.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Show, don't tell. Yes, I understand the premise for this. However, some things need to be told. After all, it IS tell me a story, not show me a story. Too much "show" and I find the book shallow. Give me some background and some internal dialog, growth, etc please. I'm not all about action.


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

Raquel Lyon - so true! We put in a little easter egg for one of our beta readers of a scene where somebody tries to steal food off another person's plate, and ends up with a fork through their hand. 

We got a one-star specifically calling out that scene as completely unbelievable. 

Not only did it really happen, according to all participants and bystanders in the emergency room (by all accounts, half the fraternity had to escort "Mooch" to the emergency room after the cinnamon roll incident), that was one of the longest times to stitch up a hand (after fork removal). The doctor was shaking with laughter, you see, and had to stop every other stitch to say "You ain't gonna do that again, now are ya, boy?" or "You learned that one right good, now didn't you?" and let out a belly laugh before resuming the sewing. 

The reader who was the holder of the food (stabber of the fork, too), came to us complaining about the review. All we could do was laugh, and dramatically claim we'll never steal cinnamon rolls off his plate to see for ourselves!


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## Mark at Marble City (Aug 17, 2013)

"Kill your darlings."


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## Peter Spenser (Jan 26, 2012)

Evenstar said:


> I keep being told that I need to sacrifice goats, and it was no help what-so-ever!


There must have been static on the line. What I said was, "establish goals."


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Konstantine said:


> As for your request to mention other supposedly set-in-stone advice...um, I guess the one about 'not needing to outline a novel' is something I don't get. Sure, not everyone gives this advice, but I can't see how we can write in a stream of consciousness manner and expect to get anywhere meaningful. Ironically, I'm pretty sure King espouses this philosophy, too, doesn't he? lol


Yes, I thought I read somewhere that King is a pantser, although I could be wrong about that one. At any rate, there's no reason to disparage us pantsers. I have tried to outline, and it just doesn't work. I wish that it did, but I can't think of any plot twists and turns until I actually come to them through my "stream of consciousness." Yet my books come out pretty coherent, except for my very first one. 

It does seem that plotters can't understand pantsers. I even remember reading a book by Janet Evanovich about writing and she said, in no uncertain terms, that you can't let the character dictate how the story goes, in that pantsers tend to say that they just write and let the character decide where to go and what to do. You, as a writer, have to control the character. I took that as an admonition against pantsing.

I am going to keep trying to outline, because I think that would make for a much less frustrating process. I'll see how it goes.

As for silly advice, I would say 1) never start a book with a description of the weather; 2) never info dump; and 3) never describe the character by having him or her looking in the mirror, would be my top three. Seen too many bestsellers with one or all of these to think that these nuggets have much value to a writer.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

anniejocoby said:


> Yes, I thought I read somewhere that King is a pantser, although I could be wrong about that one. At any rate, there's no reason to disparage us pantsers. I have tried to outline, and it just doesn't work. I wish that it did, but I can't think of any plot twists and turns until I actually come to them through my "stream of consciousness." Yet my books come out pretty coherent, except for my very first one.


I don't think "stream of consciousness" means what the guy you're quoting thinks it means. 

(I'm also a panster--although I've been toying with _Take Off Your Pants_--so I agree with you. The twists and turns don't happen for me until I get there, or close to it.)


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

jcthatsme said:


> I suspect even most pantsers have some idea when they start writing. It may not be fleshed out or complete, but that's an outline all the same. And even if they don't know the conclusion, at some point during the process they'll work it out. And there's always rewriting and editing.


The idea of those who write rules is that they like to tell those who are different to them to stop now, you're making me uncomfortable. Part of the rule-maker's argument is usually to tell that different person what they are really doing and that it is really not that different from what the rule-maker is doing so you may as well officially join the in-team. You can probably see where this is heading like a night train coming down the tracks that you have got your foot stuck in.

No, discovery writers are not outliners who are not prepared to admit it. They write as the first reader, they do not want to know the ending (or even the next chapter) because they would not want to know that in a book they are reading, so they want the same experience in the book that they are writing. Forget talk about articles of clothing and use the preferable term of discovery writing. We discovery the story as we write it. I might have a vague notion of what would be a nice ending but the journey to get there might make the planned ending inappropriate. By the time the (new?) end is reached the first chapter may no longer be suitable and so nothing is left of the novel that was in my head before the writing phase began.

So the one rule to rule them all that I throw in Mount Doom is "My way or the highway."



Caddy said:


> Show, don't tell. Yes, I understand the premise for this. However, some things need to be told. After all, it IS tell me a story, not show me a story. Too much "show" and I find the book shallow. Give me some background and some internal dialog, growth, etc please. I'm not all about action.


That is not what show don't tell means. It is not action vs story it is telling something that you could have told in story form or revealed through the dialogue. The problem is clearest in clunky dialogue that shows and tells:

"I don't love you any more, we should go our separate ways," he said.
"I can't believe you are saying this to me," I responded with a lack of credulity in my eyes at what I was hearing.

Another big dialogue fail is to have a dialogue that shows some interchange between the characters and then write:
"We then chatted on about how the discussion made us feel and gradually we came to understand each other."
The reader wants to read that dialogue, not read about it.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

SteveHarrison said:


> My personal writing philosophy is to treat every piece of writing advice as merely an opinion and to question and test the ones that I think might help me.
> 
> 'Write every day' is the one piece of 'conventional writing wisdom' that people espouse as though it is a fact and it annoys the hell out of me. By all means, write every day if you want to, but it's not a one-size-fits-all method that will make you a better writer. The only certainty if you follow this 'rule' is that you will write every day. Good for you.
> 
> ...


I think this only matters when you get people who say "REAL WRITERS write every day"

Real writers lol please!!!!

Next they will tell you, that you have to sip on lattes, visit a starbucks to write and jot in a moleskin and only write literature.

Anyone can write. Few write well. END OF STORY!

Doesn't matter if a person writes every day
Doesn't matter if they can bang out 10,000 words vs 1,000
Doesn't matter if they can outline in 1hour a book

What matters is DOES IT SELL? ARE YOUR REVIEWS GOOD? Would someone read your book a second time (If not, maybe you aren't a REAL WRITER.... just a writer LOL )


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Mercia McMahon said:


> The idea of those who write rules is that they like to tell those who are different to them to stop now, you're making me uncomfortable. Part of the rule-maker's argument is usually to tell that different person what they are really doing and that it is really not that different from what the rule-maker is doing so you may as well officially join the in-team. You can probably see where this is heading like a night train coming down the tracks that you have got your foot stuck in.
> 
> No, discovery writers are not outliners who are not prepared to admit it. They write as the first reader, they do not want to know the ending (or even the next chapter) because they would not want to know that in a book they are reading, so they want the same experience in the book that they are writing. Forget talk about articles of clothing and use the preferable term of discovery writing. We discovery the story as we write it. I might have a vague notion of what would be a nice ending but the journey to get there might make the planned ending inappropriate. By the time the (new?) end is reached the first chapter may no longer be suitable and so nothing is left of the novel that was in my head before the writing phase began.
> 
> ...


Yes, I understand what it means. The problem is too many people say "Show, don't tell" for everything. I probably worded it wrong, but I still stand by saying that providing information sometimes works quite well versus showing. I think it works better in omniscient. I'll try to explain better. For example, in the 2nd book of Gastien, I want people intimately familiar with how Montmartre was in the late 1800's. Many people would scream "Don't info dump!" "Show through dialog!" "Let it be part of the story!" Yet, because it's a historical novel and there were so many artist who are now famous there, and so much of it was new and different, using dialog wouldn't work without leaving out huge parts of information. Or it would make the dialog ridiculous. So a detailed description was necessary. Which isn't an info dump always, but many scream it for every single instance an author provides such. Anyway, I'm in a hurry, so don't know if this makes sense...I'm simply answering what the OP asked.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

SteveHarrison said:


> My personal writing philosophy is to treat every piece of writing advice as merely an opinion and to question and test the ones that I think might help me.
> 
> 'Write every day' is the one piece of 'conventional writing wisdom' that people espouse as though it is a fact and it annoys the hell out of me. By all means, write every day if you want to, but it's not a one-size-fits-all method that will make you a better writer. The only certainty if you follow this 'rule' is that you will write every day. Good for you.
> 
> ...


I think "write every day" is sound advice that would yield excellent results for anyone self-publishing. My problem is that I'm (apparently) incapable of doing it. This advice might irritate you, but it's not bad advice. 

"The only good thing to do with good advice is pass it on; it is never of any use to oneself." 
Oscar Wilde


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Denise Templey said:


> +1
> 
> My version of that would be:
> Don't make peanut brittle in a bikini.
> (Sugar has a high melting point...ouch)


That's the truth. One time--_just one time_--I stuck my finger in the pot while I was making caramel. Never again ...


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Write every day is great advice. No, I can't do it either.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Konstantine said:


> Following (the) King's advice would help us _become _like him, if we were diligent at it. I cannot see how advice like "writing 90% of your sentences in active and not passive" or "write 2,000 words a day no matter what" could be useless. And the thing about 'writing everyday will make you better', is a misunderstanding. No one ever really claimed that this will necessarily make you "better". But it _will_ make you more prolific. We all know that getting that first draft down (even if it's total sh*t) is a goal that a big % of writers do not even reach. I think the advice to write everyday is geared toward helping a writer reach that goal and not to be a better writer, per se. There are _so _many more things that are needed to make one a better writer. I only wrote this, by the way, for the benefit of any people reading this thread; it's not against the OP himself. Because I know that many budding writers can benefit from King's advice, so we wouldn't want to turn someone off from looking into it
> 
> As for your request to mention other supposedly set-in-stone advice...um, I guess the one about 'not needing to outline a novel' is something I don't get. Sure, not everyone gives this advice, but I can't see how we can write in a stream of consciousness manner and expect to get anywhere meaningful. Ironically, I'm pretty sure King espouses this philosophy, too, doesn't he? lol


I don't outline at all and I don't write in a stream of consciousness manner. "Pantsing" (a stupid word, but the one that's been chosen by the masses) does not = stream of consciousness. Stream of consciousness = stream of consciousness. I also don't see people preaching "pantsing"...if anything it's the other way around. There are only a select few (I include myself in this category) that can churn out 100k plus books without an outline and (dare I say) do it well. Yes, King doesn't use an outline, but he definitely doesn't recommend it for others, it just works for him.

One size doesn't fit all, and using an outline is not the "right" way to do it. There is no right way. It's what works.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Mercia McMahon said:


> That is not what show don't tell means. It is not action vs story it is telling something that you could have told in story form or revealed through the dialogue. The problem is clearest in clunky dialogue that shows and tells:
> 
> "I don't love you any more, we should go our separate ways," he said.
> "I can't believe you are saying this to me," I responded with a lack of credulity in my eyes at what I was hearing.
> ...


This is still opinion and not fact. Lee Child has made an incredible living and he tells and doesn't show ALL the time. The reader may or may not want to read that dialogue...depends on the reader. Clearly, Child's readers are quite happy with his methodology.

You may think those are dialogue fails or that that's how it should be done...but the fact of the matter is that many don't agree with you, many are perfectly fine with that dialogue and method of story telling. You may not like it but the fact is we don't have a fiction handbook, there are no set in stone rules when it comes to methodology in fiction.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

anniejocoby said:


> As for silly advice, I would say 1) never start a book with a description of the weather; 2) never info dump; and 3) never describe the character by having him or her looking in the mirror, would be my top three. Seen too many bestsellers with one or all of these to think that these nuggets have much value to a writer.


But those books are best-sellers.

That advice is intended to help new writers sell books, because few readers will buy a book by an author they've never heard of which starts with a description of the weather, is followed by a few pages of info-dump, then ends the chapter with the main character looking at themselves in a mirror. Unless it's very well done.

If you're Stephen King or J.K. Rowling, you don't have to care about any of that, because your readers know the book will get better, and may not even read the first chapter before buying it. If you're Joe Newbie, you don't want to do thing that will encourage readers to move on to the next book on their recommendations list.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Don't clutter your writing with dialogue tags. 

Apparently in literally fic circles dialogue tags have a bad rap. They make reading so much easier though. I want to enjoy the witty banter, not struggle to figure out who is talking. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Lee Swaim (May 30, 2014)

SevenDays said:


> That's the truth. One time--_just one time_--I stuck my finger in the pot while I was making caramel. Never again ...


I should mention that there is another, similarly correlated rule.

Don't chop jalapenos for salsa and then use the bathroom. Even washing your hands beforehand won't remove the capsaicin.

Much too perilous!


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin Lee Swaim said:


> I should mention that there is another, similarly correlated rule.
> 
> Don't chop jalapenos for salsa and then use the bathroom. Even washing your hands beforehand won't remove the capsaicin.
> 
> Much too perilous!


I have a "good friend" who knows all about that. That same friend also knows about getting jalapeno in her eye.

My friend is an idiot.


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## Keith Soares (Jan 9, 2014)

Graeme Hague said:


> Never kill (off) the dog...


Well, F.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

C. Gockel said:


> Don't clutter your writing with dialogue tags.
> 
> Apparently in literally fic circles dialogue tags have a bad rap. They make reading so much easier though. I want to enjoy the witty banter, not struggle to figure out who is talking.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, but I agree with that advice when two people are talking to each other. It isn't hard to know who it talking, as a new paragraph starts each time. For me, seeing "he said" "she said", over and over jars me out of the story and I don't finish.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> Yeah, but I agree with that advice when two people are talking to each other. It isn't hard to know who it talking, as a new paragraph starts each time. For me, seeing "he said" "she said", over and over jars me out of the story and I don't finish.


If the "saids" get in the way, you can solve it with action.

He narrowed his eyes at her. "Are you calling me a fool?"
"If the shoe fits." She shrugged.

I can't keep up, even when it's only two characters.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Caddy said:


> Yeah, but I agree with that advice when two people are talking to each other. It isn't hard to know who it talking, as a new paragraph starts each time. For me, seeing "he said" "she said", over and over jars me out of the story and I don't finish.


I agree, in my opinion there shouldn't be a need for excessive dialogue tags if the author knows what they're doing. Excessive tags are distracting and show a lack of confidence, again, in my opinion.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

That burying your book under a crossroad, naked, at midnight and invoking the devil will get you more sales.

It only works if you call the media.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

C. Gockel said:


> Don't clutter your writing with dialogue tags.
> 
> Apparently in literally fic circles dialogue tags have a bad rap. They make reading so much easier though. I want to enjoy the witty banter, not struggle to figure out who is talking.


I think you have to strike the right balance. I've read books that had a dialogue tag after every piece of dialogue, but I've read other books with pages of dialogue that didn't use any tags. Even if it's only two people talking, I say every five-to-ten lines, throw in a tag just as a helpful reminder. I can sometimes lose track of who's saying what if it goes on for a long time without a tag.

As for the "write every day" advice, I think that's very good advice because it gets you into the habit of producing work on a consistent basis. The longer my periods of writing inactivity, the harder it is to get back into it. If you do it every day, or at least on a frequent basis, then it becomes a lot easier to approach.

I don't write every day, but I try to. There are days when there's just too much going on or when I'm just burned out and tired. But I've found that by trying to write as often as I can, I've significantly minimized author burnout.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

C. Gockel said:


> If the "saids" get in the way, you can solve it with action.
> 
> He narrowed his eyes at her. "Are you calling me a fool?"
> "If the shoe fits." She shrugged.
> ...


Yeah, it's nice to see some of the above, otherwise short sentences of dialog can read like gunfire (Which can work well for bantering or jabbing at each other).


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## The Bass Bagwhan (Mar 9, 2014)

Gunna stick my oar in about dialogue tags.
Ther are three situations for using tags — assuming that what and how something is being said doesn't identify the character speaking.

First, when it's simply not clear who is speaking or it's helpful to remind the reader during a long conversation.

Second, when the tone of the dialogue might be ambiguous and needs clarifying. E.g. "Are you serious?" Might be puzzled, surprised, angry, mocking, etc...

Third, it can be a sneaky way of reminding your reader of the environment they're in. E.g. Blob shouted above the noise of the engines, "We need dialogue tags!" (Thus starting a fresh debate on the necessity or not of an exclamation mark)

Back to breakfast... Have a good Sunday!


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Rules are meant to be broken anyway.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

SevenDays said:


> Do. Or do not. There is no try.


I didn't realize we were in bootcamp 

Jokes aside, somebody with two day jobs, kids, spouse, and perhaps two dogs, might only be able to resort to "Try". And on a good day - succeed to get on the table and typewriter machine or notebook, or computer, and actually start writing. Juggling through all those things and still having time for yourself is commendable to say the least. Writing requires a lot of time if you plan on producing some results from it. These "try as I might" people don't have that luxury for the most part.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Alex Volta said:


> I didn't realize we were in bootcamp
> 
> Jokes aside, somebody with two day jobs, kids, spouse, and perhaps two dogs, might only be able to resort to "Try". And on a good day - succeed to get on the table and typewriter machine or notebook, or computer, and actually start writing. Juggling through all those things and still having time for yourself is commendable to say the least. Writing requires a lot of time if you plan on producing some results from it. These "try as I might" people don't have that luxury for the most part.


If you want it bad enough, you'll make the time.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> If you want it bad enough, you'll make the time.


I suppose that's true, but it depends on if you think wanting it badly enough to neglect your family, mental and physical health and other responsibilities is actually a good thing or likely to make you a better writer. I know I do much better work when I'm not neglecting other things and people for it. And that having a rich and balanced life is also good for my writing.

ETA: I've had to learn to fit short writing bursts into my day. Not everyone can manage that. There's no shame in Alex's scenario, for example, and trying.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

eleanorberesford said:


> I suppose that's true, but it depends on if you think wanting it badly enough to neglect your family, mental and physical health and other responsibilities is actually a good thing or likely to make you a better writer. I know I do much better work when I'm not neglecting other things and people for it. And that having a rich and balanced life is also good for my writing.
> 
> ETA: I've had to learn to fit short writing bursts into my day. Not everyone can manage that. There's no shame in Alex's scenario, for example, and trying.


Exactly. Spot on. There are a lot of other factors to consider and this is another example of "one size doesn't fit all". A man has got to know his limitations.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

SteveHarrison said:


> My personal writing philosophy is to treat every piece of writing advice as merely an opinion and to question and test the ones that I think might help me.
> 
> 'Write every day' is the one piece of 'conventional writing wisdom' that people espouse as though it is a fact and it annoys the hell out of me. By all means, write every day if you want to, but it's not a one-size-fits-all method that will make you a better writer. The only certainty if you follow this 'rule' is that you will write every day. Good for you.
> 
> ...


The one that annoys me is that when writing I mustn't 'head hop'. So even if written in the third person, it is from the point of view of only one person unless I change scenes with a section break. Ok, I find it hard to do because I want to tell the reader what the hero is thinking there and then, not afterwards. I have never thought about it much but after reading this, I took particular notice of the books I was reading by some of my favourites, and guess what? They head hop all over the place. As long as it is perfectly clear who is thinking or feeling what, who cares?

And I agree; love Stephen King and we are not him, are we?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

eleanorberesford said:


> I suppose that's true, but it depends on if you think wanting it badly enough to neglect your family, mental and physical health and other responsibilities is actually a good thing or likely to make you a better writer. I know I do much better work when I'm not neglecting other things and people for it. And that having a rich and balanced life is also good for my writing.
> 
> ETA: I've had to learn to fit short writing bursts into my day. Not everyone can manage that. There's no shame in Alex's scenario, for example, and trying.


Here's how I look at it--if you have time to go on social media, message boards, watch TV, etc., then you've got time to write. I'm not talking about neglecting anything, I'm talking about learning to prioritize. If all the would-be writers I've known in my life took all that time they spend on message boards and Facebook and Twitter complaining about not having enough time to write and spent half as much time actually writing, they could put out at least a book a year, if not more.

If writing is important to you, then you'll turn off the TV or the Internet and spend at the very least five minutes writing something. And if that's too much to ask of you, then maybe writing's not for you.


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## sabot03196 (Sep 14, 2014)

A.A said:


> That burying your book under a crossroad, naked, at midnight and invoking the devil will get you more sales.
> 
> It only works if you call the media.


I believe they are minions of the Dark One, so you're still covered. I mean look at the state of the world, he's a busy guy.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

As a writer, there's no law that says you have to write every day.  Each writer has a schedule that works for her/him.  An hour a day...  five minutes a day...  maybe not writing for days at a time.  (Best is when you can schedule a whole day or block of time for writing.  ) As long as the mental wheels are turning, that's fine, it's part of the creative process.  YES, someone can not type a word for months and still be a writer.  Because chances are when he/she does get back to the keyboard, there's a partial manuscript waiting there, having been painstakingly penned over the course of months or even years, as time and inspiration permit.  

A writer who "only" publishes one book a year, or every two (or more) years?  Yeah, that never happens.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Alex Volta said:


> I didn't realize we were in bootcamp
> 
> Jokes aside, somebody with two day jobs, kids, spouse, and perhaps two dogs, might only be able to resort to "Try". And on a good day - succeed to get on the table and typewriter machine or notebook, or computer, and actually start writing. Juggling through all those things and still having time for yourself is commendable to say the least. Writing requires a lot of time if you plan on producing some results from it. These "try as I might" people don't have that luxury for the most part.


Oh, I agree with you. I just wanted to quote Yoda.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I am kind of with Perry on this one. Write when you can, when you have to, when you want to, but if you're going to be a writer you will have to actually write at some point. No getting round that bit. Nope.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

OK, folks, I don't think anyone ever said that someone who never wrote was a writer.  It was the writing every day that was specifically addressed.

Let's move on.  I'm reviewing the thread.

Betsy


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## Dennis E. Taylor (Feb 10, 2015)

My advice: Never take advice.

But if I take your advice, then I'm not taking your advice to not take advice. But if I don't take your advice, then I'm acutally taking your advice to not take advice. IF I TAKE YOUR ADVICE TO NOT TAKE ADVICE THEN I'M NOT (smoke starts to pour out of ears) TAKING ADVICE TO TAKE ADVICE. BUT IF I TAKE ADVICE TO NOT ... (falls over, dead)

And that, Scotty, is how it's done.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

my goal is to have this discussion continue and continue civilly.  I've removed some posts that I think were taking the thread away from that goal, and some posts that referred to them (including some of mine).

Let's move on, OK?

Betsy


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Don't cook bacon in the naked 

Seriously,  Write for yourself, Write what inspires you, let the story out that keeps you up at night and quit worrying about the money.. It will come


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Here's how I look at it--if you have time to go on social media, message boards, watch TV, etc., then you've got time to write. I'm not talking about neglecting anything, I'm talking about learning to prioritize. If all the would-be writers I've known in my life took all that time they spend on message boards and Facebook and Twitter complaining about not having enough time to write and spent half as much time actually writing, they could put out at least a book a year, if not more.
> 
> If writing is important to you, then you'll turn off the TV or the Internet and spend at the very least five minutes writing something. And if that's too much to ask of you, then maybe writing's not for you.


I see your point when you break it down like that. The idea of, essentially, doing something to further your career everyday is a good one. If someone is just doing it for a hobby...then yeah...they can do whatever, advice doesn't matter. But if you have a realistic goal like becoming a full time writer then doing SOMETHING to further that every day should be a priority and I don't think that's asking too much.

I wouldn't even say that's one size fits all advice. Perhaps if they're burned out on writing one day they can edit. Even reading a book, in my opinion, is a positive step forward. In my opinion, reading is a bit like studying if you're a writer, no matter what you read, you're studying words, how that particular author put them together, and it flexes your 'creative muscles'.

Anyway, I'm glad you broke it down beyond simply "if you want it bad enough".


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

JV said:


> Anyway, I'm glad you broke it down beyond simply "if you want it bad enough".


I think the general philosophy can be extended to lots of other things in life. A lot of people want to lose weight, for example, and (medical conditions aside) that's easy _if you want it enough_. You simply eat less and exercise more. The problem is that most people want to eat nice food and sit on their arses _more_ than they want to diet and exercise. As soon as the desire to be thin outweighs the desire to lie face down in a pile of chocolate, that's when the weight starts to come off. Same with writing - if you want it enough you will do your level best to fit it in.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Lydniz said:


> I think the general philosophy can be extended to lots of other things in life. A lot of people want to lose weight, for example, and (medical conditions aside) that's easy _if you want it enough_. You simply eat less and exercise more. The problem is that most people want to eat nice food and sit on their arses _more_ than they want to diet and exercise. As soon as the desire to be thin outweighs the desire to lie face down in a pile of chocolate, that's when the weight starts to come off. Same with writing - if you want it enough you will do your level best to fit it in.


Except some people hurt like hell when they exercise and it's a vicious cycle. I know this is going off subject, but yours is another "one size fits all" assumption. Do you realize how many people on this board you just insulted? So easy to point fingers and assume you have the answer.  And thank you for assuming I "lie face down in a pile of chocolate". I was thin for years and had a modeling portfolio. THings changed that are frankly none of your business, but thank you for judging me. Your prejudice stuns me. It's very irritating that fat people seem to be a target perfectly okay to mock, criticize, and judge. Because we all know thin people have no imperfections. I was certainly perfect when I was thin.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

"Kill your darlings!" Seems a bit perverse to me. Especially as advice often given to comedy writers in the form: "Find what you think is your best joke and remove it."



> The earliest known example of the phrase is not from any of these writers, but rather Arthur Quiller-Couch, who spread it in his widely reprinted 1913-1914 Cambridge lectures "On the Art of Writing." In his 1914 lecture "On Style," he said, while railing against "extraneous Ornament":
> 
> If you here require a practical rule of me, I will present you with this: 'Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it-whole-heartedly-and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder your darlings.
> 
> More at: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/10/18/_kill_your_darlings_writing_advice_what_writer_really_said_to_murder_your.html


Philip


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Caddy said:


> Except some people hurt like hell when they exercise and it's a vicious cycle. I know this is going off subject, but yours is another "one size fits all" assumption. Do you realize how many people on this board you just insulted? So easy to point fingers and assume you have the answer.  And thank you for assuming I "lie face down in a pile of chocolate". I was thin for years and had a modeling portfolio. THings changed that are frankly none of your business, but thank you for judging me. Your prejudice stuns me. It's very irritating that fat people seem to be a target perfectly okay to mock, criticize, and judge. Because we all know thin people have no imperfections. I was certainly perfect when I was thin.


I'm sorry if you were offended, Caddy. That wasn't meant to be personal, merely flippant.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> If you want it bad enough, you'll make the time.


Maybe if you cut contact with your friends and/or cut sleeping hours. But that would make you better writer, not necessarily a better person. Or healthier. Sleep-deprivation brings with itself whole plethora of health problems.

And nobody wants to be friendless. You may have your family and pets, but that shouldn't be a substitute for friendship too. Not in my book anyway. If you lead a very busy life, trying to make time for writing is good enough. On those rare days the "try" leads to actually "having" time, its worth it.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

I wouldn't mind lying face down in a pile of chocolate.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Lydniz said:


> I'm sorry if you were offended, Caddy. That wasn't meant to be personal, merely flippant.


Me being offended shouldn't be what you apologize for. What you said is what needs apologizing for. You may see it as flippant, but the message was clear: Fat people are lazy and constantly eat, and those of us who aren't fat are superior to them. It's a message repeated over and over. I hope you don't think I'm savagely attacking you, but I do hope you know I am dead serious.

People used to think it was flippant to say all blacks are lazy. All women are air-heads. Gays are perverts. The thing is, those messages were anything but a joke. I stuck up for those rights and I stick up for the rights of all humans.

Being fat isn't a crime or a personality defect. And the sooner people who aren't fat realize it, the better. Sometimes fat can be changed, if the person wants to and has the ability. Attitudes are much harder to change. So are superiority and bigotry. However, "fat" isn't something to be ashamed of. Feeling superior to others or being a bigot is.

ETA: I sincerely hope you are neither. At the best, this will simply give you something to think seriously about before deciding it's okay to hold fat people up as an example of people who don't "try hard enough to be acceptable".


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

UnderCovers said:


> At least draw to a double gut shot... Sheeze, what is this world coming to?


Always draw to a double gutter. It's almost impossible to detect.

Here are the best two pieces of advice I've ever heard (about writing):

1. Be entertaining. Nothing else matters.

2. Write the book you want to read.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Caddy said:


> Me being offended shouldn't be what you apologize for. What you said is what needs apologizing for. You may see it as flippant, but the message was clear: Fat people are lazy and constantly eat, and those of us who aren't fat are superior to them. It's a message repeated over and over. I hope you don't think I'm savagely attacking you, but I do hope you know I am dead serious.
> 
> People used to think it was flippant to say all blacks are lazy. All women are air-heads. Gays are perverts. The thing is, those messages were anything but a joke. I stuck up for those rights and I stick up for the rights of all humans.
> 
> ...


This isn't the thread to discuss this. All I will say is that I had no intention of insulting anyone, I don't believe I feel superior to anyone, and I evidently picked a bad example, for which I apologise. Now that's all I'm going to say on the subject.


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## GoneToWriterSanctum (Sep 13, 2014)

I do not accept VerticalScope's Terms Of Service on Kboards, and have asked for my account to be deleted, along with all of my posts.

If you are here as a result of a Google search, _*leave now*_. The owners of this site are interested only in your possible ad revenue.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Lydniz said:


> This isn't the thread to discuss this. All I will say is that I had no intention of insulting anyone, I don't believe I feel superior to anyone, and I evidently picked a bad example, for which I apologise. Now that's all I'm going to say on the subject.


Thank you. Accepted.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Alex Volta said:


> Maybe if you cut contact with your friends and/or cut sleeping hours. But that would make you better writer, not necessarily a better person. Or healthier. Sleep-deprivation brings with itself whole plethora of health problems.
> 
> And nobody wants to be friendless. You may have your family and pets, but that shouldn't be a substitute for friendship too. Not in my book anyway. If you lead a very busy life, trying to make time for writing is good enough. On those rare days the "try" leads to actually "having" time, its worth it.


Hyperbolic much? Is this argument with me causing you to cut contact with your friends and/or cut sleeping hours? Is this discussion causing you to neglect your family or pets? If the answer is no, then you clearly have time to argue with me on KBoards on this, so that means you have time to write.

If you have time to argue with complete strangers on the Internet, then how can you tell me it's difficult to try to find time to write and still maintain a straight face?


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

Caddy said:


> Me being offended shouldn't be what you apologize for. What you said is what needs apologizing for. You may see it as flippant, but the message was clear: Fat people are lazy and constantly eat, and those of us who aren't fat are superior to them.


I don't think she actually said anything about fat people. She just used an example of people wanting to lose weight. Which can touch a nerve, but that doesn't mean she can't say it. It's your nerve - it's her thoughts.

I've been thin, I've been fat. Currently fatter than I'd like. And after a while of my desire eat pizza outweighing my desire to be healthier, I essentially agree with the original comment.

There can be a million other factors at play - health, stress, time - but at the end of the day, I know that if I want to lose weight, I have to choose what my priorities are out of all the things that are in my control.

I think that's all she was saying.

And back to writing, it's the same. If you want to be a writer, you'll make writing a priority, by changing things that are in your control to make more time for it.

Of course, that doesn't mean that doing so is easy, trying to keep the balance and sanity.


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## jcthatsme (Mar 19, 2014)

David VanDyke said:


> 2. Write the book you want to read.


This has always been my favourite. I remind myself of it whenever I need to cut through the fog of all the other advice and remember what I'm actually doing it for.

To write what I want to write, not what anyone else might think I *should* write.


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## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

jcthatsme said:


> This has always been my favourite. I remind myself of it whenever I need to cut through the fog of all the other advice and remember what I'm actually doing it for.
> 
> To write what I want to write, not what anyone else might think I *should* write.


That's the heart of the matter, JC.

You might add, write whenever you want to write, however much you want to write, as infrequently as you want to write and never, ever, ever, ever take any notice when someone tells you, if you don't do X, how can you hope to be a writer.

If you write, you are a writer.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

No argument I'm just going to send my hitman over to meet your hitman


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> If you have time to argue with complete strangers on the Internet, then how can you tell me it's difficult to try to find time to write and still maintain a straight face?


Eh, speaking for myself, arguing on the internet, watching TV, reading, social media etc are things I can do while doing other things--I watch TV while socializing with my family and cleaning the kitchen, play games while socializing with my brothers, read on the bus with a toddler asleep on my lap, check Facebook and Google+ while the kettle boils, and I'm currently checking KBoards on my tablet while eating breakfast with my son perched on my lap watching maths videos on the iPad. None of those leisure activities require my full attention or shortchanging anyone, is my point.

When I write, I write. It needs a focused session of time to immerse myself fully. It's not a multitasking thing. Do I plot and imagine while pushing a pram or a swing? Damn straight. But words through keyboards are different, and require a reasonable amount of time and concentration. It's been hard enough to learn to up my word count by grabbing every extra fifteen minutes when I can (oh God I love my Alphasmart) because I used to take fifteen minutes just to settle into the groove. I write every day, because I have the luxury to do so. (And it was much easier when working full time, ironically, because my evenings were more my own.)

I am never going to judge someone with heavy work obligations and family obligations for not putting "write every day" above all else. And I'm not going to judge someone constantly exhausted for needing chilling time. They write when they can. Good for them for writing at all.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

eleanorberesford said:


> I am never going to judge someone with heavy work obligations and family obligations for not putting "write every day" above all else. And I'm not going to judge someone constantly exhausted for needing chilling time. They write when they can. Good for them for writing at all.


If you're going to accuse me of judging people for not writing every day, perhaps you should try actually _reading_ what I said on the subject of writing every day:



Perry Constantine said:


> As for the "write every day" advice, I think that's very good advice because it gets you into the habit of producing work on a consistent basis. The longer my periods of writing inactivity, the harder it is to get back into it. If you do it every day, or at least on a frequent basis, then it becomes a lot easier to approach.
> 
> I don't write every day, but I try to. There are days when there's just too much going on or when I'm just burned out and tired. But I've found that by trying to write as often as I can, I've significantly minimized author burnout.


Understand? I said writing every day is good advice but that the key point is to write on a consistent basis and not make excuses about why you don't have time. I never said anyone who doesn't write every day isn't a real writer--those are words others (such as yourself) have put into my mouth.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

Tapatalk seems to have eaten my reply, so:

I was responding to the idea that posting on Kboards or doing anything else means you have time to write. That's not actually true, and I was giving example of why other leisure activies aren't equivalent and it's not just a matter of exchanging one for another.

I apologise if saying that *I* don't judge other people for not writing every day seemed like a personal accusation against *you* rather than saying how I feel. (I do think "write every day" can be very bad advice because it can set people up for failure. "Write when you can" is better.) It wasn't meant as an attack on you personally, just the general topic. I'm sorry if I expressed it in a way that felt like I was putting words into your mouth.

I do write every day.  I just don't think it's always advice that fits everyone.

And now I'm bowing out for a bit because my little boy wants to play shops, and pretend play is also not a multitasking activity.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

"I want to be a world-class athlete, but I refuse to train on a schedule. I'll only train when I feel like it, but still expect—as if by magic—to be a world-class athlete."

Yep. Good luck with that. 

Is "practice" really such a dirty word?

"I want to get better at this thing I want to do, but I'm not going to practice or push myself."

Again. Good luck with that.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

Over time I've totally developed my own system of writing, promoting, release schedule, etc. It's all become pretty efficient. I work obsessivley at it because when I see others like successful pro athletes, musicians, etc, they worked on their skill in some form 24/7. So for me personally I feel this is necessary.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Oh, for heaven's sake. Writing every day is neither good, nor bad, nor required in order to be a good/successful writer. Like any other piece of advice, it's simply that--_advice._ Like all advice, it guarantees nothing. "Writing every day" does not automatically equal quality writing. Writing without a set schedule--daily, weekly, sporadically or whatever-- is not necessarily indicative of a lack of determination, nor does it mean such writing would necessarily be sub-par.

What works for some won't work for others. I was pretty sure this thread made that clear. (And I know that people here would never look down on others who don't share their opinions or work habits, or think those people don't really "want" to be writers. Because that's what 11-year-olds do.)


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## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

Nicknacks said:


> I think "write every day" is great advice if you look at it from the perspective of honing your skills and forming habits. If I were an Olympic swimmer, I'd practice every day. If I were a prima ballerina, I would work out every day. I want to be a prolific writer and a career author. So, yes, I write & read every dang day (even if it's a mere line here or there, a quick edit, a small poem for my kids).
> New writers or people who "don't have time" don't lose anything by being advised to work on that writer muscle every day - a few minutes at a time, to make it a natural part of their lives. It's not a recipe for failure if they actually enjoy writing - why else would they do it? How can they get better/faster/stronger if they don't do the thing that they need to do to get the thing done? (That made sense in my head ).
> 
> Shrug. I don't think a lot of these "bad" pieces of advice are bad at all... except for the cooking naked thing. I mean - who does that?? On the other hand, don't tell me. I'd rather not know


'Write every day' isn't bad advice, despite the provocative title of this thread. 'Write every day' is, at best, a suggestion for those who don't know how often to write or those looking for time management ideas. This suggestion becomes bad when it is prefaced by 'you should...' or 'to be a writer, you must...' or 'how can you call yourself a writer if you don't...'

There is no evidence that writing every day will make you a better writer and there is no evidence that it won't. Try it or don't; it's your call. For me, I don't want to write every day and wouldn't even if I could. I think about my writing every day, which is far more valuable to me as preparation for my writing sessions.

Writing, to me, is the way I use my creativity to express myself. I don't want to write like anyone else. I want to write like me. I want to find my own voice, which is why a hate the thought of being compressed into a small writing space where I have to do this, or must write like that. I read advice and I'm always interested in the experiences of other writers, but I rarely accept anything purely on face value.

Every writer you admire has a list of elements that led to their success, but those things are personal to them and not necessarily to you (though they might!). They have 'an answer' to a question which has no 'the answer.'

Rant over.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> "I want to be a world-class athlete, but I refuse to train on a schedule. I'll only train when I feel like it, but still expect--as if by magic--to be a world-class athlete."
> 
> Yep. Good luck with that.
> 
> ...


Kind of a straw man, isn't it? No one said writers shouldn't write regularly or expect to be brilliant without practice. All I see is acknowledgements that adults have complex lives and responsibilities, and that simplistic advice and arbitrary rules don't recognise that.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

eleanorberesford said:


> Kind of a straw man, isn't it? No one said writers shouldn't write regularly or expect to be brilliant without practice. All I see is acknowledgements that adults have complex lives and responsibilities, and that simplistic advice and arbitrary rules don't recognise that.


Not a strawman at all. You see it as 'acknowledgements that adults have complex lives and responsibilities' I see it as people making excuses not to write. If you want to write you will; if you don't want to write you won't. Simple as that. If you want to be good at something you need to practice. Simple. If you don't want to practice, then you don't want to get better. Simple fact. If you only practice when you feel like it, or schedule time only once every third blood moon following a leap year on a Tuesday, you're not going to get better on any noticeable time scale. Sure, a few hundred million years down the line you might have improved enough to publish... or you know, you could shoot for 5000 words in a week and sort out the specifics as you strive toward that goal. Because *gasp* it's work.

When I see people complain about there complicated lives I just shake my head and think okay, they don't actually want to write. Yet, magically, they still complain. Everyone's lives are complex and filled with responsibility. If you think of your writing time as 'found time', then you're sunk. If you really want to write you'll carve that time out bleeding and quivering from other things. Even if it's 15-20 minutes in the morning before the SO and kids crawl out of bed to make your life a wall-to-wall living hell for the next 16-18 hours... if you want to write, you'll _*make*_ the time. You need to watch the news after work, or your programs, or binge watch something on Netflix / Hulu, or check Facebook and Twitter obsessively, or you need a few hours of quiet time to yourself after everyone else has gone to bed... Okay, but don't turn around and bitch about not having time to write. You do have the time, you're just choosing not to write and spending that time on other things instead.

If your day is so utterly packed with things you actually _have_ to do to _physically survive from day to day_, then you need to let the dream go until your life settles down. Come back to it when you can carve time off to write that won't also result in your near-term death. No harm, no foul. Short of that you're not being creative enough with your time management and simply whinging. I mean come on, really? Thirty minutes in a day is impossible? You can't write on your lunch break? Before the SO and kids get up? After they've gone to bed? Can't dictate into your phone on the commute to work? Can't write something long-hand on the train to and from work? Can't thumb a few passages whilst you're standing on line at the DMV or bank? Can't cut an hour of sleep three days a week and pound out whatever you can get done?

That don't work? You need a few hours of pure quiet and uninterrupted solace to get into the grove and wrote? You're being so precious with your writing that you won't get anything done. The world will never perfectly bend to your notion of the tortured artiste and 'allow' you to write. Stop being afraid of producing something and get your butt in the chair and write something. Writers write. It's just that simple.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

(head-->desk)


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

Self edited for snark.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Not a strawman at all. You see it as 'acknowledgements that adults have complex lives and responsibilities' I see it as people making excuses not to write. If you want to write you will; if you don't want to write you won't. Simple as that. If you want to be good at something you need to practice. Simple. If you don't want to practice, then you don't want to get better. Simple fact. If you only practice when you feel like it, or schedule time only once every third blood moon following a leap year on a Tuesday, you're not going to get better on any noticeable time scale. Sure, a few hundred million years down the line you might have improved enough to publish... or you know, you could shoot for 5000 words in a week and sort out the specifics as you strive toward that goal. Because *gasp* it's work.
> 
> When I see people complain about there complicated lives I just shake my head and think okay, they don't actually want to write. Yet, magically, they still complain. Everyone's lives are complex and filled with responsibility. If you think of your writing time as 'found time', then you're sunk. If you really want to write you'll carve that time out bleeding and quivering from other things. Even if it's 15-20 minutes in the morning before the SO and kids crawl out of bed to make your life a wall-to-wall living hell for the next 16-18 hours... if you want to write, you'll _*make*_ the time. You need to watch the news after work, or your programs, or binge watch something on Netflix / Hulu, or check Facebook and Twitter obsessively, or you need a few hours of quiet time to yourself after everyone else has gone to bed... Okay, but don't turn around and b*tch about not having time to write. You do have the time, you're just choosing not to write and spending that time on other things instead.
> 
> ...


Dayum. I don't even know where to begin. I will say this - I don't write every day. In fact, when I finish a novel, I typically take at least a week off of writing anything at all, sometimes even longer. Sometimes, gasp, I'll go an entire month without writing a single word. I'll binge on Netflix, bad TV, and reading gossipy magazines, but I refuse to write. That's because I know that if I force myself to write when I'm not feeling it, it becomes a chore and it saps my creativity. I start to hate my WIP, and the ideas don't come. I start to resent it.

But, if I give myself a little time to break and recharge, I can generally come back and get some good work done - when I'm ready, and not a second before. I still manage to produce a novel every two months. That's my process, and I'll never apologize for it. You might say that I'm not really a writer because I don't have the mental energy to get at this every single day. I don't really care. It works for me, and that's all that matters.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Not a strawman at all. You see it as 'acknowledgements that adults have complex lives and responsibilities' I see it as people making excuses not to write. If you want to write you will; if you don't want to write you won't. Simple as that. If you want to be good at something you need to practice. Simple. If you don't want to practice, then you don't want to get better. Simple fact. If you only practice when you feel like it, or schedule time only once every third blood moon following a leap year on a Tuesday, you're not going to get better on any noticeable time scale. Sure, a few hundred million years down the line you might have improved enough to publish... or you know, you could shoot for 5000 words in a week and sort out the specifics as you strive toward that goal. Because *gasp* it's work.
> 
> When I see people complain about there complicated lives I just shake my head and think okay, they don't actually want to write. Yet, magically, they still complain. Everyone's lives are complex and filled with responsibility. If you think of your writing time as 'found time', then you're sunk. If you really want to write you'll carve that time out bleeding and quivering from other things. Even if it's 15-20 minutes in the morning before the SO and kids crawl out of bed to make your life a wall-to-wall living hell for the next 16-18 hours... if you want to write, you'll _*make*_ the time. You need to watch the news after work, or your programs, or binge watch something on Netflix / Hulu, or check Facebook and Twitter obsessively, or you need a few hours of quiet time to yourself after everyone else has gone to bed... Okay, but don't turn around and b*tch about not having time to write. You do have the time, you're just choosing not to write and spending that time on other things instead.
> 
> ...


QFT.

I remember an interview a while back on Rocking Self Publishing where Simon Whistler talked to an author (can't recall his name now) who said that he wrote his book with two thumbs on his iPhone's notes app while at his son's sporting events. Chuck Palahniuk wrote Fight Club during spare moments while working as a diesel mechanic.

If you want it bad enough, you'll find the time.



anniejocoby said:


> Dayum. I don't even know where to begin. I will say this - I don't write every day. In fact, when I finish a novel, I typically take at least a week off of writing anything at all, sometimes even longer. Sometimes, gasp, I'll go an entire month without writing a single word. I'll binge on Netflix, bad TV, and reading gossipy magazines, but I refuse to write. That's because I know that if I force myself to write when I'm not feeling it, it becomes a chore and it saps my creativity. I start to hate my WIP, and the ideas don't come. I start to resent it.
> 
> But, if I give myself a little time to break and recharge, I can generally come back and get some good work done - when I'm ready, and not a second before. I still manage to produce a novel every two months. That's my process, and I'll never apologize for it. You might say that I'm not really a writer because I don't have the mental energy to get at this every single day. I don't really care. It works for me, and that's all that matters.


Giving yourself a break isn't the same thing as what FBH is talking about. This is about people who will perpetually complain that they don't have time to write but are somehow able to find the time to complain about the lack of time, surf the Internet, watch Netflix, play video games, etc. Judging from your signature, you clearly aren't one of those people because you are writing consistently.

It's not about every day, it's about consistency.


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## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Not a strawman at all. You see it as 'acknowledgements that adults have complex lives and responsibilities' I see it as people making excuses not to write. If you want to write you will; if you don't want to write you won't. Simple as that. If you want to be good at something you need to practice. Simple. If you don't want to practice, then you don't want to get better. Simple fact. If you only practice when you feel like it, or schedule time only once every third blood moon following a leap year on a Tuesday, you're not going to get better on any noticeable time scale. Sure, a few hundred million years down the line you might have improved enough to publish... or you know, you could shoot for 5000 words in a week and sort out the specifics as you strive toward that goal. Because *gasp* it's work.
> 
> When I see people complain about there complicated lives I just shake my head and think okay, they don't actually want to write. Yet, magically, they still complain. Everyone's lives are complex and filled with responsibility. If you think of your writing time as 'found time', then you're sunk. If you really want to write you'll carve that time out bleeding and quivering from other things. Even if it's 15-20 minutes in the morning before the SO and kids crawl out of bed to make your life a wall-to-wall living hell for the next 16-18 hours... if you want to write, you'll _*make*_ the time. You need to watch the news after work, or your programs, or binge watch something on Netflix / Hulu, or check Facebook and Twitter obsessively, or you need a few hours of quiet time to yourself after everyone else has gone to bed... Okay, but don't turn around and b*tch about not having time to write. You do have the time, you're just choosing not to write and spending that time on other things instead.
> 
> ...


Writers often complain they don't have enough time to write - I do it myself - but your argument is simplistic. I assume you have the ability to turn on your writing creativity at will and be able to write at a moment's notice and for short periods of time. I, and I'm sure many others, can't do that or perhaps don't want to do that. Thirty minutes or even an hour of free time is completely useless to me as writing time. My output and frustration the many times I have tried, is worse than not writing at all. I wasted a lot of time discovering this, but it did lead me to where I want to be.

After many years I have decided that my writing routine is best served by a minimum of one single four hour session a week, usually on a Saturday afternoon. If I get a second session on the weekend, I count myself privileged. If I feel like it, I might write a page or two on a week night after work, but only if I feel like it. However, last week I wrote six pages over four weeknights, so perhaps I am becoming prolific!

I realise that in your eyes I am a failure and will never amount to much, writing-wise. But why do you care what others do? I count myself very lucky in that I have a very balanced and comfortable life with my family, work and writing all slotting neatly into place, with one book published and another progressing nicely. I read all the comments here about people writing thousands of words a day, filling every waking hour or free moment hunched over their keyboards and completing book after book at astounding and very impressive rates. I think, wow, that's terrific and I'm very impressed. But I also think, thank goodness I'm not like that. I am doing exactly what I want to do at my own pace and thoroughly enjoying the experience.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

anniejocoby said:


> I don't really care. It works for me, and that's all that matters.


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## Trans-Human (Apr 22, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Hyperbolic much? Is this argument with me causing you to cut contact with your friends and/or cut sleeping hours? Is this discussion causing you to neglect your family or pets? If the answer is no, then you clearly have time to argue with me on KBoards on this, so that means you have time to write.
> 
> If you have time to argue with complete strangers on the Internet, then how can you tell me it's difficult to try to find time to write and still maintain a straight face?


First of all, I'm not arguing. I use a very different tone if I;m arguing with somebody. I'm sharing my thoughts, and defending my position on a given topic. And you have a very snarky way of twisting things out of context. Whether with other people or for yourself (like with that other member after me).

Me? I admit that my job is keeping me from spending more time on writing, but being 26 with 35 works in que, with several being groomed for release, I can't complain, and it seems I do have time. So its not about me then. Do I have to be intimately connected to a situation to be able to sympathize with other people's lives? I'm defending them because a couple of posters made it seem like you can't let yourself entertain the mindset of "Trying", you either do it or don't, and how they are just making excuses or being "lazy". Which is stupid because there are thousands of reasons why somebody can't actively practice writing on regular basis.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Jena H said:


> (head-->desk)


Yep, pretty much. This thread has jumped the shark.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

anniejocoby said:


> Dayum. I don't even know where to begin. I will say this - I don't write every day. In fact, when I finish a novel, I typically take at least a week off of writing anything at all, sometimes even longer. Sometimes, gasp, I'll go an entire month without writing a single word. I'll binge on Netflix, bad TV, and reading gossipy magazines, but I refuse to write. That's because I know that if I force myself to write when I'm not feeling it, it becomes a chore and it saps my creativity. I start to hate my WIP, and the ideas don't come. I start to resent it.
> 
> But, if I give myself a little time to break and recharge, I can generally come back and get some good work done - when I'm ready, and not a second before. I still manage to produce a novel every two months. That's my process, and I'll never apologize for it. You might say that I'm not really a writer because I don't have the mental energy to get at this every single day. I don't really care. It works for me, and that's all that matters.


Difference being is that whilst you're actively producing when you're on and during that period of taking a break you're not also complaining that you 'don't have enough time to write'. I'm not railing against someone's process or how they choose to write. I'm railing against the mealy-mouthed excuses some people use to feel okay about not writing. Are you writing regularly and producing prose? Then you've won. Good on ya and keep up the good work. On the other hand, if you're not producing generally and also complaining about not having enough time to write but you're binge watching Daredevil on Netflix... they you have zero sympathy from me.

The closer to 'every day' writers get the better it is because it's a more consistent and generally higher output. The constant practice works those muscles and gets them in and keeps them in better shape. It's not the right way, and it might not even be the best way, but for a lot of starting writers it's the only way to get their asses in gear and BIC and actually writing. That routine to kick things off initially till they find the right pattern that works for them. The trouble isn't that 'write every day' is somehow 'bad' advice, it's that there are people who need an extra bit of motivation and those who don't. If you don't then 'write every day' looks like terrible advice; if you do then 'write every day' looks like mana from heaven. Simply because a few of the writers here don't need that particular piece of advice does not magically transform it into 'bad' advice. It's just advice that's not meant for you, that doesn't mean it should be banished to a gulag and those who think it's useful or good should feel bad.

Just because it's advice that you don't need doesn't mean it's bad, it just means you're not the target audience. Simply because something doesn't apply to you personally doesn't mean it's useless. Men don't need tampons, but that doesn't mean the product shouldn't exist. Women don't need jock straps, but that doesn't mean the product shouldn't exist. Not every thing ever built or made, not every single piece of wisdom or advice ever uttered needs to be universally useful or applicable for its existence to be justified.


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## EthanRussellErway (Nov 17, 2011)

That being said, write every day.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

SteveHarrison said:


> Thirty minutes or even an hour of free time is completely useless to me as writing time. My output and frustration the many times I have tried, is worse than not writing at all. I wasted a lot of time discovering this, but it did lead me to where I want to be.
> 
> After many years I have decided that my writing routine is best served by a minimum of one single four hour session a week, usually on a Saturday afternoon. If I get a second session on the weekend, I count myself privileged.
> 
> I am doing exactly what I want to do at my own pace and thoroughly enjoying the experience.


Oh, you tortured artistes with your mealy-mouthed excuses


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## EthanRussellErway (Nov 17, 2011)

Unless you miss a day, then write the next day.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

*makes note to add "mealy-mouthed" to the filters.*

No, seriously, folks....let's stop characterizing each other's posts and putting words in each other's mouths.



eleanorberesford said:


> Self edited for snark.


*Adds bonus points to EB's account for self control.*

Reminder, it's not necessary to respond to every post and it's okay to let someone else have the last word. Just sayin'.

Be happy. 

Betsy
KB Mod


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> The closer to 'every day' writers get the better it is because it's a more consistent and generally higher output. .
> 
> Just because it's advice that you don't need doesn't mean it's bad, it just means you're not the target audience. Simply because something doesn't apply to you personally doesn't mean it's useless. Men don't need tampons, but that doesn't mean the product shouldn't exist. Women don't need jock straps, but that doesn't mean the product shouldn't exist. Not every thing ever built or made, not every single piece of wisdom or advice ever uttered needs to be universally useful or applicable for its existence to be justified.


"The closer to 'every day' writers get the better it is because it's a more consistent and generally higher output." Unprovable, not to mention subjective.

"Just because it's advice that you don't need doesn't mean it's bad, it just means you're not the target audience. Simply because something doesn't apply to you personally doesn't mean it's useless." And yet some on here have repeatedly questioned the determination and "will" of those who don't follow this advice and write every day--regardless of reason--and concluding they obviously "don't want" to write. Again, specious, unprovable, and subjective.


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## SteveHarrison (Feb 1, 2015)

eleanorberesford said:


> Oh, you tortured artistes with your mealy-mouthed excuses


No, I'm just lazy and lacking ambition.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Lol, those that need to write every day to get work out, great! And those that don't have to write every single day yet manage to produce work, great too! Publish and repeat, and pat yourself on the back for getting your work out there.

Stop caring about what works for others and just do what works for you.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

SteveHarrison said:


> No, I'm just lazy and lacking ambition.


Tortured artistes get to wear black eyeliner.


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