# PW2: firmware 5.4.2.1 available



## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Saw this on MobileRead. No word yet on what it actually does...or if it improves anything:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_left_cn?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201307450

Anyone want to play guinea pig? I'm not messing with it yet as I'm jailbroken for custom fonts.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'll take a look...thanks, Victoria!

Betsy


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I'll take a look...thanks, Victoria!
> 
> Betsy


Fingers crossed for an on/off switch to hide greyed out books. Or something. And a way for multiple users on one account to see only those collections they choose.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

It can't get worse, I'd say. 


Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> It can't get worse, I'd say.
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX.


Now you've gone and jinxed it.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Since I jumped into the last disaster, I will let you much braver soles (hi Betsy) test it first.

Steve


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

The first attempt to update failed, error 4.  Not sure what error 4 is, but perhaps it was a problem with the download.  Trying to freshly download.

EDIT:  The file size was off, so downloading again....a slow process on my netbook.

UPDATE SUCCESSFUL.  Off to explore.  Will report in.

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Redownloaded and installing.  I think the first download was incomplete, based on the file size....


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> Fingers crossed for an on/off switch to hide greyed out books. Or something. And a way for multiple users on one account to see only those collections they choose.


Given that it was an upgrade from 5.4.2 to 5.4.2.1, I didn't expect anything much, and haven't seen any differences so far, certainly not in the way collections are handled or Goodreads.

Betsy


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Given that it was an upgrade from 5.4.2 to 5.4.2.1, I didn't expect anything much, and haven't seen any differences so far, certainly not in the way collections are handled or Goodreads.
> 
> Betsy


Sigh. Wishful thinking, I suppose. Thanks for letting us know.


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## kansaskyle (Sep 14, 2010)

I tried out the new upgrade.

It seems a bit faster to open Collections from the home screen, and books; however, that might be me imagining things and/or a restart of my PW2.

Other than that, I haven't seen any changes in the Collections or GoodReads.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

That would be an improvement, though.  And maybe better battery management -- I've noticed lately, not having changed my usage pattern substantially, that I'm only getting a few days battery life.  Like 3 or 4 if I'm lucky.  A far cry from the 2 weeks I used to get.  I'm sure it's to do with the cloud collections.  I'm nearly to the point of deleting them all, it's THAT annoying.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

The whole thing annoys me so much I'm not reading on my PW as much as I used to...I'm using my Fires more. 

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> That would be an improvement, though. And maybe better battery management -- I've noticed lately, not having changed my usage pattern substantially, that I'm only getting a few days battery life. Like 3 or 4 if I'm lucky. A far cry from the 2 weeks I used to get. I'm sure it's to do with the cloud collections.  I'm nearly to the point of deleting them all, it's THAT annoying.


I am glad that you mentioned the battery issue, because I also have noticed with my PaperWhite 2 that I seem to be recharging much more than I used to. I also suspect has something to do with the much-despised update.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

I also agree. I notice I have to recharge a lot more with my PW2.

Steve


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## avivs (Oct 17, 2011)

yep, my battery on my PW2 is much weaker than the first PW.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

It's not a weaker battery -- it's a more energy using firmware -- namely the cloud collections thing.  We all need to tell Kindle support -- in this case, I'd even use the word 'complain'.  It's just not as good a device NOW as it was when I bought it just 3 months ago -- and I haven't done anything to cause the problem.


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## backslidr (Nov 23, 2012)

The cloud collections don't take up hardly any space. Since I removed all the books from the device and left them greyed out in their collections I havent had any battery issues and it no longer freezes up and reboots. I don't know if that means its a software problem or not. Could just be that they're using cheaper parts in order to keep the cost down and it isn't working out so good.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

It's not a matter of taking up space--that doesn't affect battery life for the most part (although if you have so little available space that your device can't cache data, that could be an issue), I believe it's a matter of the software needing to refresh more to keep up with collections on the device.

And again, if you can no longer have collections on the device to get the device to work the way it should, it's a bad update.

Betsy


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## kansaskyle (Sep 14, 2010)

I observed reduced battery life on my PW2 compared to my PW soon after upgrading.  I'm not seeing the three or four days that others mentioned.  It is more like 10 days or so for me between charges whereas before I was seeing around 14 days.  

Cloud Collections and Goodreads could be factors for those that leave wi-fi turned on all the time due to background updates/checks; however, I leave wi-fi turned off until I need to download new content.  

I was wondering if it was due to some of the other new/improved features such as better resolution, updated light, the Vocab Builder that takes cycles to add words you look up, etc.

In theory, the 25% faster processor should improve battery life because things run faster, which results in less power use to process a given command (e.g., refresh a page).


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## jlee745 (Jul 27, 2010)

I only have the book I'm reading downloaded and I am having to recharge weekly.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

kansaskyle said:


> I observed reduced battery life on my PW2 compared to my PW soon after upgrading. I'm not seeing the three or four days that others mentioned. It is more like 10 days or so for me between charges whereas before I was seeing around 14 days.
> 
> Cloud Collections and Goodreads could be factors for those that leave wi-fi turned on all the time due to background updates/checks; however, I leave wi-fi turned off until I need to download new content.
> 
> ...


The better resolution, updated light and Vocab Builder were there before the "Cloud Collections" update and battery life on mine was great; the decreased battery life is definitely since the update. (I had a release date PW2 with pre-cloud collections firmware.)

Betsy


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## GBear (Apr 23, 2009)

Once again, thank you to the canaries in the coal mine who warned some of us to stay away from the "STOOPID," "much-despised" update!

All, please continue to direct your complaints to Kindle Support in hopes that they will recognize and correct the errors of their ways, and we can all be happy Kampers again.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> The better resolution, updated light and Vocab Builder were there before the "Cloud Collections" update and battery life on mine was great; the decreased battery life is definitely since the update. (I had a release date PW2 with pre-cloud collections firmware.)
> 
> Betsy


My experience is the same as Betsy's. It's mighty disappointing.

I suppose I could get better life by turning the wireless off except when I "need" it, but it's a BAD update if it requires me to drastically change the way I do things in order for my experience to approximate what I was happy with. And I'm not convinced it'll actually rectify anything.

Besides, if I do that, any time I want to move anything into or out of a collection on the device, I'll get a message reminding me that the cloud collections won't update. BUT I DON'T WANT THEM TO.

I seriously think I'm just going to delete all collections and hope that it works at least as well as the ORIGINAL kindle from 2007/2008.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Really, my PW2 was my favorite Kindle of all time, and I feel they've ruined it.  I barely pick it up, using my HDX7 even for reading more.  I can keep all the cloud collections I set up for books when the HDX got them, and still see only books on the device if that's what I want to see.

  

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm the same way -- though I do use it the most still because it's got the best screen.  But it's not as good as it was when I got it.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Strange that everyone seems to be having difficulty with the new upgrade.

Perhaps it's the way I use my Kindle, but it hasn't really bothered me much and I haven't noticed any battery issue since I got it.  

I can see how it can be a problem if you want to find a book you haven't yet loaded and instead of just unloaded books in the cloud like before you get all of them and have to see which hasn't got a tick by it, but having the unloaded books greyed out on the device list I think could be very handy, especially if you make it a habit to put a book in a collection immediately you buy it. I guess I just don't spend a great deal of time scrolling through my collections - on the cloud or the device - for it to really affect me. I buy a book, download a book, put it in the appropriate collection(s) and then read it.

I buy very few books ahead of the time when I read them, preferring to use the Amazon wish list instead for most 'TBRs', so I don't have any problems hunting around for books I haven't read yet in the new system. Also, I'm the only user on the account, which of course makes things simpler. 

For me, the PW2 is still my go-to Kindle.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah -- it's probably down to the way we've gotten used to using our kindles.  I do tend to buy faster than I can read.  I had been used to putting them in a collection called 'fiction' on whichever device I sent it to. Over the years I've had many devices and different ones as my 'main reader'.  Also, MANY BOOKS.

So MY problem, was that when I got the 'cloud' collections, it included the many many versions of collections from all the devices I'd ever had over the last nearly 6 years!   

As to seeing the grayed out books, I have no problem with that.  When I'm viewing the 'cloud', I think it's great that I can see what else I might have put in a specific collection and be able to see easily whether or not it's on the device I'm holding.  MY problem is that the 'device' view is basically exactly the same.

PLUS, I can conceive of wanting different collections on different devices.  When I choose "device" then, I should only see the collections I have on that device.  And I'm just one person.  If I was sharing my account with several others -- which I know many here do -- I'd have to also always see all their collections.  It's just unweildy.  I like 'cloud collections'; I just want also 'non-cloud' or 'device only' collections. 

And I've noticed, I think, a slowdown in response time and a definite higher battery usage.  If WiFi is off, things definitely slow down and I keep getting reminders that wifi is off or I'm not in range when I try to do anything.

Oh -- and they've switched up the sharing stuff too -- I used to be able to post directly to FB; now I HAVE to go through Good Reads and haven't, in fact, figured out how to get a book share on FB at all without going to my computer first.  That's a step backwards, though a minor thing overall.

Bottom line: it's making me change the way I've gotten used to using the device.   In the past, as I got new devices or software enhancements came along, I could use or not the new features but I could basically still use the device the same way I did when I got my first one in 2008.  I've embraced the enhancements over the years and now, to get a similar experience, the best thing for me to do is go BACK to 2008 -- remove ALL collections from all devices and not even use them. 

But that solution won't work for others!  I only have a couple of cloud collection devices; and I don't have many books on the HDX so loosing my book collections there is no big deal.  But, again, if I was one of several folks sharing an account who all had new-ish devices . . .   I BET there have been many cases of folks seeing lots of random collections suddenly showing up and they innocently deleted them -- not for their device, those are Mary's books -- not realizing they're also deleting them on Mary's device.  Bad implementation.

Understand:  I'm something of an Amazon fan girl. I think they sort of blew it with this update.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Linjeakel said:


> Strange that everyone seems to be having difficulty with the new upgrade.
> 
> Perhaps it's the way I use my Kindle, but it hasn't really bothered me much and I haven't noticed any battery issue since I got it.
> 
> ...


It probably works for a lot of people...but it doesn't for me.

The primary reason I bought a Kindle was so I could take a library of books with me wherever I go. So I like to have 80 or 90 books with me, at least. I'm like the person who was starving once, now I want an excess of the item.

I didn't use to care about collections, never particularly wanted them, but if we're going to have them, the way it's configured now makes no sense.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Are we that atypical of the average Kindle user. While some of us like the new changes, or are indifferent to them, a lot of us hate them. I don't understand how Amazon can ignore this.

Steve


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

I don't think we can say yet that Amazon is ignoring this. Fixing complex software takes time, and having been in that industry, I don't think we can say for certain that enough time has passed that we can definitively say Amazon isn't going to take action. (How I wish I still had a friend who worked in the Kindle division! Alas, he's long since moved on to another company.)

Other than the battery issue and the more frequent crashes, I honestly don't care about 5.4.2. After I took the plunge and spent a few hours cleaning up my collections, it's been mostly a non issue for me. But that's because I'm the only person on my account, I keep nearly everything on my device, and I'm not a Goodreads power user. I know others are not nearly so fortunate.

And I'm a firm believer in giving the customer options for customizing their user experience when it comes to software, rather than the company just assuming a one size fits all solution is the way to go. That means I'm philosophically opposed to this setup _even though it works for me_. So I'm still hoping Amazon cleans up Collections to make them usable again for everyone, not just those who happen to conveniently fit the new system.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> I keep nearly everything on my device.


Do you not have very many books, then, on your account, Victoria? I couldn't possibly keep "nearly everything" on my device, except perhaps on my K1 with the hugh SD card I have installed.


Betsy


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## booklover888 (May 20, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Really, my PW2 was my favorite Kindle of all time, and I feel they've ruined it. I barely pick it up,


That is exactly how I felt. I suggest all of you do as I did, contact them, letting them know they ruined it, and see if you can return it for a full refund. I replaced mine with a used Kindle Touch.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I don't want to replace mine; I want them to fix it.  And fortunately, I have other options (a Kindle Touch, a basic Kindle, a Kindle 1, an HDX7 and an HDX8.9 as well as an iPad, an iPod Touch and a Galaxy S2).

But I agree, contact Amazon.

Betsy


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Do you not have very many books, then, on your account, Victoria? I couldn't possibly keep "nearly everything" on my device, except perhaps on my K1 with the hugh SD card I have installed.
> 
> 
> Betsy


Currently around 650 books on the device, about 95% of which were from Amazon and therefore appear in Cloud Collections, not just on device. And I have 40 Collections currently. I went through a two year period where I didn't buy much, and I stopped downloading every freebie I saw early on, or it might be double that by now.  Even with that much, it's still showing 488 MB free.



booklover888 said:


> That is exactly how I felt. I suggest all of you do as I did, contact them, letting them know they ruined it, and see if you can return it for a full refund. I replaced mine with a used Kindle Touch.


Sorry, I don't consider that a solution. You couldn't pay me to go back to the Touch. It was a great device for its time, but it's antiquated, slow, and lacks an onboard light, so no, it's not an adequate substitute for a PW. (Yes, I've tried both, my Touch is still fully operational--and completely ignored.)


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Well I took the plunge and updated my PW2. Its been 10 minutes and nothing disasterous has happened. No 600 greyed out entries, no page after page of collections, no disaster. But there is still time ......

Steve


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> Currently around 650 books on the device, about 95% of which were from Amazon and therefore appear in Cloud Collections, not just on device. And I have 40 Collections currently. I went through a two year period where I didn't buy much, and I stopped downloading every freebie I saw early on, or it might be double that by now.  Even with that much, it's still showing 488 MB free.


Ahhhh... I have almost 2000 books, most of them not free, all of them from Amazon.

Betsy


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Ahhhh... I have almost 2000 books, most of them not free, all of them from Amazon.
> 
> Betsy


Yeah, trying iPad reading for two years definitely slowed my acquisition rate WAY down. Tablet reading just has way too many possible distractions for me, and I hardly read at all. No reading=no buying either. Getting the PW2 was eye-opening; I went from being pretty uninterested in reading back to voraciously consuming (and buying!) everything in sight again. But that gap puts me well behind most long timers here in terms of overall library size.

I *am* annoyed that they went down in terms of onboard storage though instead of up. I don't *want* to store everything in the cloud (especially if they're not going to seperate out the on device books!) I don't like having to be tied to wifi constantly just to use a device. And I'd pay more if they'd bring back the SD card option!


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah, Steve, that's what I thought too when I first updated. Didn't look so bad. Then the collections from a dozen or so past and present Kindles started populating. And even that wouldn't be so bad if I knew which was whose.  But instead of seeing them by Kindle name like we could before, now they're all just there in one big unspecified pile. All 14 pages worth of collections in my case. The grayed out titles when I'm in "Device" view are a minor annoyance in the sense that I can delete them easily enough. The major annoyance about that, though, is that I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO.  Device view should be what's on the device.  Period. As far as that goes, it should only show me the Collections on this particular device, not every device that was ever on my account.  If they think that type of view is useful for some, it should've been added as a third option for viewing content, rather than displacing the view of what's on the specific device that we had pre-update. 

Maybe they're trying to discourage multiple folks on one account, but that horse left the barn long ago. I still love my PW2 and it's brought me back to reading on a Kindle (I'd been reading on my iPad Mini with the Marvin app for most of 2013) but now that I've got my PW2's home page back to a more manageable state (although I still don't need to see my daughter's PW2 collections on my PW2) I'm back to leaving wifi off - don't want to deal with other collections the other people on my account may add. And I know I may have hosed somebody on my account by deleting some collections and I'll feel bad when they get a new device. But I'll be blaming it on Amazon. And when they see my Collections on their Home Page, I'm pretty sure they'll understand. 

STOO. PID.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

stevene9 said:


> Well I took the plunge and updated my PW2. Its been 10 minutes and nothing disasterous has happened. No 600 greyed out entries, no page after page of collections, no disaster. But there is still time ......
> 
> Steve


I'm quoting myself above because I was wrong. Before this latest update I had no problems at all with kindle freezes. In the 2 days since I've updated I've had 3 freezes that have caused my to have to reboot my PW2. Amazon's really starting to make me dislike my kindle.

Steve


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

Meemo said:


> Yeah, Steve, that's what I thought too when I first updated. Didn't look so bad. Then the collections from a dozen or so past and present Kindles started populating. And even that wouldn't be so bad if I knew which was whose. But instead of seeing them by Kindle name like we could before, now they're all just there in one big unspecified pile. All 14 pages worth of collections in my case. The grayed out titles when I'm in "Device" view are a minor annoyance in the sense that I can delete them easily enough. The major annoyance about that, though, is that I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO. Device view should be what's on the device. Period. As far as that goes, it should only show me the Collections on this particular device, not every device that was ever on my account. If they think that type of view is useful for some, it should've been added as a third option for viewing content, rather than displacing the view of what's on the specific device that we had pre-update.
> 
> Maybe they're trying to discourage multiple folks on one account, but that horse left the barn long ago. I still love my PW2 and it's brought me back to reading on a Kindle (I'd been reading on my iPad Mini with the Marvin app for most of 2013) but now that I've got my PW2's home page back to a more manageable state (although I still don't need to see my daughter's PW2 collections on my PW2) I'm back to leaving wifi off - don't want to deal with other collections the other people on my account may add. And I know I may have hosed somebody on my account by deleting some collections and I'll feel bad when they get a new device. But I'll be blaming it on Amazon. And when they see my Collections on their Home Page, I'm pretty sure they'll understand.
> 
> STOO. PID.


I think you misunderstood my post. After my first update I hade all those things. 600 greyed out entries, etc. I have cleaned them up but was fearful to do this newest update. And as I have said in another post, I have now had mutiple freezed in my PW2 after this new update, none before. The first update had all the greyed out stuff and extra collection. I already lived through that hell.

Steve


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Ah, Steve, gotcha - I forgot I was on the "update to the update" thread. Since I'm keeping wifi off now maybe I can avoid this update for a while.


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## jlee745 (Jul 27, 2010)

My pw2 updated on its on last night. Took a little bit 4 them to put out the update.


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## KindleGirl (Nov 11, 2008)

Mine started updating on it's own last night and then said there was an error and couldn't update. Never had that problem when it updates itself. Not really too worried about it since there have been complaints. Some day maybe I'll take the time to do it manually if it doesn't automatically update by itself again.


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

Mine didn't have any problems updating when I finally turned my wi fi back on. I haven't' noticed any changes yet but I haven't read on it a whole lot since last night either. I am hoping the battery doesn't start to have issues like so many of you are saying you are now having. I love my PW2 for the very reason that the battery life is so awesome on it.


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## Susan J (May 14, 2010)

I know that I spend a lot of time reading so my battery life was never as good as expected on any of my Kindle e-ink readers.  

The PW2 seems much worse than any of the others, including the PW1 , and I just thought that it was also because I keep it bright around level 18.  I have to charge it nearly every day.  I also have never had so many freezes before.  I do have thousands of e-books , which is not unlike what I used to have in hardback books before I have spent the last several years taking boxes to the library.

I don't want to be limited in the number of books that I can have.  I would delete more from the cloud but I like the feature whereby when I pull up a book to purchase that if I have it in my library, I get that reminder across the top of the product page.  Some books are so forgettable that it is easy to repurchase by mistake.


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

Just in case this is the reason, have you checked to see if a book is still indexing. You can type in a bunch of letters on your kindle in the search area. It will affect the battery. I find the battery on my PW2 about the same as my PW1. How many hours do you read daily on your PW2?


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## Susan J (May 14, 2010)

Toby said:


> Just in case this is the reason, have you checked to see if a book is still indexing. You can type in a bunch of letters on your kindle in the search area. It will affect the battery. I find the battery on my PW2 about the same as my PW1. How many hours do you read daily on your PW2?


I checked the indexing and it is working properly. Since I'm retired and reading is my favorite activity, it varies (probably correlated to my enjoyment of the current book ) but I would guess at least 6 hours a day.

Amazon product page: _A single charge lasts up to eight weeks, based on a half hour of reading per day with wireless off and the light setting at 10. Battery life will vary based on light and wireless usage_

So up to 28 hours which I can divide in half by my use of almost double lighting level. I think the major drop comes with turning wifi on which one has to do to change anything in collections, etc.

I can't run the PW2 done to the low battery notice since it will slow down if not freeze before it gets there so I charge it when it has about 25% left to avoid problems. It's not a major issue for me since I have several chargers with long cords and it charges fairly quickly compared to some of my other devices.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to turn on wifi every time you change something with Collections - that's just so it will immediately sync up with Cloud Collections. I've assumed I  can make changes with wifi off and whenever I turn wifi on, any changes I've made will sync up. Of course you know what they say about assuming....  But if it can't, it's another addition to the STOOPID List. (Or maybe add me to the list for assuming. )


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## Susan J (May 14, 2010)

Meemo said:


> I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to turn on wifi every time you change something with Collections - that's just so it will immediately sync up with Cloud Collections.


Thanks. Yes, you are right. I guess I am just so used to turning it on for translations and other things that I just got in the habit of doing that for everything. Hmmm, maybe changing that habit might add a bit more time on the battery.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Meemo said:


> I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to turn on wifi every time you change something with Collections - that's just so it will immediately sync up with Cloud Collections. I've assumed I can make changes with wifi off and whenever I turn wifi on, any changes I've made will sync up. Of course you know what they say about assuming.... But if it can't, it's another addition to the STOOPID List. (Or maybe add me to the list for assuming. )


Well, no. But you get a reminder that nothing you do counts until you do turn it on. So if you're moving several books you get the same warning every time and there's no option to say, "don't show me this again." And it does slow things down.

If I'm in "on device" I shouldn't need to talk to the cloud at all -- I should be able to move things all I want. Whether I'm on a wifi network or not.


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## Wisteria Clematis (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm starting to get seriously miffed that Amazon has made no indication yet that they'll be addressing all these problems. I have been laboriously downloading all my new book purchases to my computer and transferring them to my PW2 because that is preferable to being stuck with this upgrade. I've had numerous kindles since the very first one was released and during those years have created many, many collections which are no longer relevant to me. And I really don't want to go through the hassle of having to delete pages and pages of them. 

However it is extremely aggravating to realize that I spent the extra money for a 3G model so I could have the advantage of connecting no matter where I was (I travel quite a bit) and now because of the upgrade I'm not even turning the wireless on at all. And I will definitely let Amazon know how I feel about this but I am also losing hope that it will make the slightest bit of difference to them.

Wisteria


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## CAR (Aug 1, 2010)

Wisteria Clematis said:


> I'm starting to get seriously miffed that Amazon has made no indication yet that they'll be addressing all these problems. I have been laboriously downloading all my new book purchases to my computer and transferring them to my PW2 because that is preferable to being stuck with this upgrade. I've had numerous kindles since the very first one was released and during those years have created many, many collections which are no longer relevant to me. And I really don't want to go through the hassle of having to delete pages and pages of them.
> 
> However it is extremely aggravating to realize that I spent the extra money for a 3G model so I could have the advantage of connecting no matter where I was (I travel quite a bit) and now because of the upgrade I'm not even turning the wireless on at all. And I will definitely let Amazon know how I feel about this but I am also losing hope that it will make the slightest bit of difference to them.
> 
> Wisteria


I might be wrong on this but... I thought updates only come over on WiFi and not 3G?


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

Yesterday, I took my PW2 out with me. I normally leave WiFi on, but I put airplane mode on. Then, I figured it's time to deal with these collections. It said that I needed a WiFi connection. I didn't have WiFi where I was, so I tapped ignore. Then, when I decided to turn airplane mode off, no settings were found. It disappeared. So, I tapped the store icon. Finally, the settings appeared. I thought my Kindle broke. I use airplane mode all the time on my Fires when I take it out, to save the battery, since I can't get WiFi. I won't do it anymore on my PW2.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> If I'm in "on device" I shouldn't need to talk to the cloud at all -- I should be able to move things all I want. Whether I'm on a wifi network or not.


You are preaching to the choir, sister. I just sideloaded a few books yesterday and moved them into Collections. And got the message each and every time. That's just dumb. And STOOPID too.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

stevene9 said:


> Are we that atypical of the average Kindle user. While some of us like the new changes, or are indifferent to them, a lot of us hate them. I don't understand how Amazon can ignore this.


This reminds me of the past Paperwhite discussions where some of us had trouble with the PW1/2 screen and light experience (and some still do). In those cases we probably were a minority. Big enough I guess for Amazon to improve things in PW2 but not big enough for them to remove the frontlight technology.

In this case, I think people with issues with the collections are probably a minority. This time, I have absolutely no problem with 5.4.2 or the .1 update on my PW2. I've actually been using it as my primary Kindle once the replacement brought me one with a more even light/screen - my $69 Kindle 5 with lighted cover has been serving as a backup. I guess most people are like me when it comes to collections, they just don't have enough books, collections or multiple users on their account for them to even notice the problem.

Still, I wish they'd fix this. I for one know the feeling of having an issue with Kindle and the desperation of seeing Amazon mostly ignore it and continue on that road I find unpleasant. I hope, for those who feel badly about this one, get their fix soon. I think the biggest obstacle to that is if Amazon has some kind of strategic plans for Cloud Collections (like using them to lessen the use of multiple account users). If not, I'd expect to see an off switch sooner rather than later.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Really, my PW2 was my favorite Kindle of all time, and I feel they've ruined it. I barely pick it up, using my HDX7 even for reading more. I can keep all the cloud collections I set up for books when the HDX got them, and still see only books on the device if that's what I want to see.


Once I believe I was told to not think too much and just read on the thing... 

On a more serious note - and out of curiosity: Do the Cloud Collections affect the actual reading experience? Do you guys shuffle that much in the book menu that it really hinders your everyday reading? Or is this more of a general annoyance?

I must say it hard for me to know the actual concerns when my use is merely keeping some active books on the device and then clicking them open. The use of the menus is so little that in reality it doesn't matter too much what happens there, if the actual page reading experience works for me.

Anyway, clearly a failure of an update from Amazon when considering their most active readers.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

CAR said:


> I might be wrong on this but... I thought updates only come over on WiFi and not 3G?


I think that's true with newer devices . . .and the older devices that didn't have WiFi aren't getting updates any more.



Toby said:


> Yesterday, I took my PW2 out with me. I normally leave WiFi on, but I put airplane mode on. Then, I figured it's time to deal with these collections. It said that I needed a WiFi connection. I didn't have WiFi where I was, so I tapped ignore. Then, when I decided to turn airplane mode off, no settings were found. It disappeared. So, I tapped the store icon. Finally, the settings appeared. I thought my Kindle broke. I use airplane mode all the time on my Fires when I take it out, to save the battery, since I can't get WiFi. I won't do it anymore on my PW2.


Yes. This is what I've noticed too. When you try to do something that it thinks it ought to need a connection for, when, really, there's no way it should, it gets balky. Everything fixes itself when you get back on the 'net. But you shouldn't HAVE to be on line to move a book into or out of a collection On YOUR DEVICE!   



Meemo said:


> You are preaching to the choir, sister. I just sideloaded a few books yesterday and moved them into Collections. And got the message each and every time. That's just dumb. And STOOPID too.


Can I get an AMEN!

Seriously -- I got fed up and decided, you know what? With my very first Kindle, the ORIGINAL wedge shaped one, there were no collections, and I was just fine. So the other day I deleted 'em all. And the device is much happier now. Battery usage is not nearly as fast -- and I'm still leaving wifi on all the time. It's a minor inconvenience that has solved what was becoming a significant annoyance for me. But, it's a shame. I'll be letting Amazon know I've taken this step back to make the thing work as it ought.



FearIndex said:


> Once I believe I was told to not think too much and just read on the thing...


Which is why I took all the collections away.  



> On a more serious note - and out of curiosity: Do the Cloud Collections affect the actual reading experience? Do you guys shuffle that much in the book menu that it really hinders your everyday reading? Or is this more of a general annoyance?


It's a general annoyance. When kindles first came out there were no collections and people _clamored_ for a way to organize their books. Collections were introduced I think with the 2nd generation device as an update about 6 months after the original release -- so sometime around summer/fall of 2009. People who do have lots of books, and/or lots of users on their accounts, used them to figure out who was reading what and keep things sorted. I had a couple of categories for things I wanted on the device always, but didn't want just sitting there on my home page because I only referred to it now and again. Things like emergency contact number lists and such like. It was a convenience.

With the cloud collections implementation as it is, that convenience is LOST. Because I have to have on my main device all the same collections as on my secondary device (assuming both are 'cloud collection compatible') That would be an annoyance if, for example, I shared an account with my husband who had a whole different set of collections. And there are folks here where that's the case.

The other thing, as I've mentioned, is that when it first 'goes there' it imports _every collection you've ever had from every device you've ever had_. I had random collections I'd made and then deleted/rejected 4 years ago pop up.  Where's the sense in that? I don't even _OWN_ the device that collection was on.

Finally, the _need_ of the device to 'phone home' every time you open anything from in a collection, or want to move anything in or out is annoying, as I've noted here. If you're not on a network, it acts weird. If you are, it's just slow. AND the whole thing definitely drains the battery much faster.



> I must say it hard for me to know the actual concerns when my use is merely keeping some active books on the device and then clicking them open. The use of the menus is so little that in reality it doesn't matter too much what happens there, if the actual page reading experience works for me.
> 
> Anyway, clearly a failure of an update from Amazon when considering their most active readers.


The menus work fine. It's the in and out of collections, or selecting a book that's in a collection that mostly affects responses. If the book is just on the home page, it always opened just fine and worked just fine to read. I don't actually have _that many_ books on the device. A little over a hundred. It is true that if you start getting to about 50% of stated capacity, response suffers -- that's because there's no where to store stuff while things are getting moved. At least, such was my experience on one of my earlier devices that did get quite full.  I get that. But this device is 'rated' at 1100 books. No way I should be having such laggy response when I've barely got a tenth of that!  And you know what? I don't any more now that I've removed all my collections and am just dealing with books. But I shouldn't have to do that either. 

Oh, and FWIW, there was no change at all when my device went to the 5.4.2.1 version.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Fair enough, very good description of how the problem hinders day-to-day collection usage.

It is a shame that Amazon has managed to mess up a long-time feature. Judging by the lackluster Goodreads implementation, it doesn't seem like their heart is really in supporting the e-ink products. Seems like the tablets are getting more love these days.


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## a_boo (Feb 3, 2014)

Does anyone else have a problem with their PW2 screen becoming unresponsive at times?

I have a PW1 and it has always been fine but I bought my Mum a PW2 for Christmas and it occasionally doesn't register paper turns etc.


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

My collections are working fine but the last few times when I am at the end of the book I have had a hard time getting the menu button at the top to respond to me. It doesn't want to pop up for some reason. Last night it took me five tries to get it to finally appear. After it finally does, then it is fine again.

I haven't had any other issues so far *keepsfingerscrossed*


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## KindleGirl (Nov 11, 2008)

a_boo said:


> Does anyone else have a problem with their PW2 screen becoming unresponsive at times?
> 
> I have a PW1 and it has always been fine but I bought my Mum a PW2 for Christmas and it occasionally doesn't register paper turns etc.


Yes, I've had this problem. I'll swipe to turn the page and nothing happens, or it takes a long time to turn. By that time I've swiped it again. It happens here and there, but I've had it happen every time I read.


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## Wisteria Clematis (Oct 29, 2008)

a_boo said:


> Does anyone else have a problem with their PW2 screen becoming unresponsive at times?
> 
> I have a PW1 and it has always been fine but I bought my Mum a PW2 for Christmas and it occasionally doesn't register paper turns etc.


Mine has frozen 4 or 5 times and then somehow rebooted itself. When that happens my place in the book is lost and I have to try to figure out where I was. I'm keeping a close record of this in case I need to send it back. My PW1 has never, ever done this. In fact, I have owned just about every version of kindle and none have ever had any problems. I guess I was lucky. I have less than 100 books on the PW2 so I don't think memory can be the problem. I hate the thought of having to send it back because I don't have the upgrade installed on it and I'm afraid a replacement would have that darn cloud collections issue.

Wisteria


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## loonlover (Jul 4, 2009)

a_boo said:


> Does anyone else have a problem with their PW2 screen becoming unresponsive at times?
> 
> I have a PW1 and it has always been fine but I bought my Mum a PW2 for Christmas and it occasionally doesn't register paper turns etc.


My PW2 has frozen around a half dozen times since October. I usually do a reset and it has always kept my place in the book or game I have been playing. It has happened more times while playing a game than while reading.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

FearIndex said:


> Once I believe I was told to not think too much and just read on the thing...


And yes, I am just reading on the thing. That's the only thing I do. I took the opposite tact from Ann. I only browse my collections on my Fires. Once I find a book I want to read, I open that book on the Paperwhite. And only read. I don't go to Home (well, I do once to pick the book), I don't browse the books on the device.

So, essentially, this update has turned the Paperwhite into a one book at a time device for me. It's virtually useless to me for what I bought my original Kindle for--which was to have a library with me at all times.

Edit to add: And I've voiced my opinion of the update, and passed it on to Amazon. I won't be re-posting my opinion about the update into every thread. Only posted here to address your comment to me. 

Different strokes.

Betsy


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

a_boo said:


> Does anyone else have a problem with their PW2 screen becoming unresponsive at times?
> 
> I have a PW1 and it has always been fine but I bought my Mum a PW2 for Christmas and it occasionally doesn't register paper turns etc.


Ever since this latest update my kindle freezes about once a day and has to be rebooted. Never froze before this update.

Steve


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## Muddypawz (Jan 13, 2009)

a_boo said:


> Does anyone else have a problem with their PW2 screen becoming unresponsive at times?
> 
> I have a PW1 and it has always been fine but I bought my Mum a PW2 for Christmas and it occasionally doesn't register paper turns etc.


My PW2 updated last night and besides it adding collections that have been unearthed from the dead (from years back), I also immediately began noticing poor response on the screen, including delays in page turns and top section not appearing or lagging before finally becoming visible. I'm furious at what they've done!


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## Eilene (Oct 29, 2008)

I still have version 5.4.0 on my PW2...should I keep this & not update?


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## GBear (Apr 23, 2009)

Eilene said:


> I still have version 5.4.0 on my PW2...should I keep this & not update?


That's the version I have, and I'm sticking with it until there is a version that fixes the issues introduced with Cloud Collections. These problems would really impact me as they have others. There are people who don't use collections and/or keep very few books on their Kindle, and these folks mostly aren't particularly bothered by 5.4.2+. However, I don't recall anyone stating that they actually benefited from the firmware update.

The drawback of trying not to update is that you need to leave WiFi off (or risk sporadic use of it) to avoid automatic updates, so you lose the benefits of wireless downloads, syncing, shopping, etc. That's a trade-off I'm willing to make, but you may decide otherwise for yourself.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

They do push updates out when they're first released. Some folks here did a manual update -- weren't really happy with the way the cloud collections was implemented -- and so many of the rest of us didn't bother. I did get it pushed to me a week or so later though. But that was SEVERAL weeks ago and it's possible they're no longer pushing. So, if you don't have it, you might not get it unless you bother to do so.

The goodreads implementation is only o.k. -- though there are a lot of things you _can't _ do with it -- like put books on any but 'reading', 'read', and 'to be read' shelves. And that implementation broke the FB linkage. I used to post to FB when I finished a book; the star rating would go to my collection listing on Amazon and my friends could see what I'd read and we'd discuss. Helped me keep track of what I read and give me something to share on FB. NOW, the post doesn't go to FB so where I used to share with FB friends, I can not any more. And I am not really a GR user so that was a step backward for me. I've still used the 'rate and share' when I finish books, but only to get the rating on Amazon so I know what I've read; haven't been to the GR site in weeks.

The update also adds kindle free time which is probably not a bad thing if you share you kindle full of 'grown up content' with a youngun. But I don't.  So I've not played with it really at all to see how well it works.

And we've discussed the EPIC FAIL of the cloud collections implementation ad nauseum. My 'fix' was to delete all my collections -- I only used a half dozen anyway and don't really share my account. That's definitely fixed the battery drain issue I was having as well as the laggy response when moving things into and out of collections -- ESPECIALLY annoying if not on WiFi as you keep getting a warning with every thing you try to do that you're not connected. Yeah, I know, it's o.k. And you can't even click a "don't show me this again" button. 

Honestly, though I've been a HUGE kindle fan since my first device in July of 2008, I would NOT recommend this update. Up 'til now each new device was an improvement and each software update was an improvement. Not the case here: the update makes it not as good as it was when I purchased it and only marginally better than the PW'12 based on an improved lighting design and better screen. But, honestly, at this point, if someone was coming from a Touch or Keyboard or earlier device, I'd very possibly recommend a PW'12 over the PW'13 because you won't have to worry about this buggy (though they call them 'features') update.


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