# What Does "Crossing Genres" Really Mean?



## CarmenConnects (Oct 15, 2012)

I dislike the notion of pigeon-holing books into specific genres.  Some great books have combined genres--Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer was history-mystery-paranormal while the fantasy-mystery-romance mix is gaining popularity. But are readers intrigued or turned off by mixed genre books? And where should bookstores shelve them?


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't really think there are a lot of true combining genre books or crossing. What they usually are are subgenre's within a genre. For example if its a romance, it can be a lot of different sub genre's including sci fi, fantasy, PNR, etc.  

For other genre's same thing. What I do not like is when authors think they need to "change" a genre since you know, their book is such a special snowflake it will re-invent the genre.  . Then you either end up with a book that fits perfectly fine within that genre just as it is, or its not that genre at all and the author isn't very clear on what it is and is unfamiliar with the genres. 

There is always general fiction for stuff that doesn't fit properly into other genre's. Don't try to make a square fit into a circle I say.  

I don't think properly marking books is pigeon holing. Its providing a reader with what they are looking for. If I order a chocolate ice cream at the ice cream shop, then I don't want to end up with vanilla in my cone.


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## rejrej1 (Nov 4, 2012)

There are certain types of science fiction books I like, so on those sites I check the "sub-genres" to see, including romance or apocolyptic. Your example is a good one, though. Abraham Lincoln - Vampire Hunter: a historical horror fantasy? I don't know if you could "sub-genre" that one accurately!


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## kaytheod (Nov 6, 2012)

I've always thought that mixing a good mystery in with an intriguing fantasy world makes a story richer. Maybe that's why urban fantasy is so popular since it combines the two plus, usually, a romance. Good writing is good craft, and I don't think matters what the story elements are.

Maybe all the concern about drawing boundaries came from corporate publishers concern with marketing. It's easier to sell if you can push people into neat little boxes.


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## LISADAY12 (Oct 9, 2011)

kaytheod said:


> I've always thought that mixing a good mystery in with an intriguing fantasy world makes a story richer. Maybe that's why urban fantasy is so popular since it combines the two plus, usually, a romance. Good writing is good craft, and I don't think matters what the story elements are.
> 
> Maybe all the concern about drawing boundaries came from corporate publishers concern with marketing. It's easier to sell if you can push people into neat little boxes.


I agree there. And I believe today's reader discovered they don't like boxes. Hence the explosion of readers reading Indie works and small ebook publishers. Try selling a book you label a romance to a large publisher and it's rejected because it didn't follow the "Rules of a romance." Send if down the line with a difference label and it's picked up. Hey--two people falling love.-love story= Romance. Apparently not always....


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Well if an author tries to pitch a book that isn't a romance as romance to a publisher, of course they aren't going to be picked up. Why would they peeve off their readers by selling something that it isn't. 

Same goes for other genres.


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

The problem with cross-genres is indeed that physical bookstores were and are usually willing to shelve a book in only one place.  

And that's one big advantage of Amazon and all ebook sellers - there's no problem in multi-tags.

Readers and reading tastes are a separate issue.  Each genre has certain protocols, or expectations that readers have about the story.  If there's a cosy-mystery with a dead body in a room with a door locked from the inside, a solution which has the murderer teleporting out of the room would be irritating and even unaccepted.  But teleportation is fine in a science fiction story.

So the challenge to the cross-genre writer is to blend genres in a way that doesn't violate any expectations for each genre.


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## Lensman (Aug 28, 2012)

Publishers like books to fit into niches - it makes marketing far easier. There are books that don't easily fit into an existing niche - if they become popular, sometimes they sire a new heading. Urban fantasy did not exist as a genre until the 80s - steampunk ditto. But in both cases there were novels that fit into that new niche well before it became formalised.


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

Carmen hit the nail on the head straight away. Where do you shelve cross-genre books? It's generally down to which of the two (or more) genres in a book is most prominent. I love it when authors cross genre boundaries, and my favorite crosses are detective-supernatural and sf-horror.


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## lvhiggins (Aug 1, 2012)

PaulLev said:


> The problem with cross-genres is indeed that physical bookstores were and are usually willing to shelve a book in only one place.
> 
> And that's one big advantage of Amazon and all ebook sellers - there's no problem in multi-tags.


I agree with PaulLev. Genres were made to help pigeonhole books so the bookstore knew where to shelve them. A lot of really good cross-genre books never got published because of this. But the practice is becoming archaic due to the rise of ebooks, and I think we see a lot more cross-genre books because of it.


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

lvhiggins said:


> I agree with PaulLev. Genres were made to help pigeonhole books so the bookstore knew where to shelve them. A lot of really good cross-genre books never got published because of this. But the practice is becoming archaic due to the rise of ebooks, and I think we see a lot more cross-genre books because of it.


Having said which, when people search for various kinds of books -- even ebooks -- they still largely search in terms of genre classification. There's an extent to which the notion of genre is bogus, since all (good) writers are different, but the majority of people enjoy certain general types of fiction and seek that out, and dislike other types of fiction and avoid it, so we're never going to totally escape the concept of 'genre.'


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

Tony Richards said:


> ... the majority of people enjoy certain general types of fiction and seek that out, and dislike other types of fiction and avoid it, so we're never going to totally escape the concept of 'genre.'


Agreed. That's what I was referring to the second part of my post above, when I said protocols or reader expectations of stories can't be trampled. But they can indeed be deftly bent and successfully re-shaped by authors.


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## lvhiggins (Aug 1, 2012)

Tony Richards said:


> Having said which, when people search for various kinds of books -- even ebooks -- they still largely search in terms of genre classification. There's an extent to which the notion of genre is bogus, since all (good) writers are different, but the majority of people enjoy certain general types of fiction and seek that out, and dislike other types of fiction and avoid it, so we're never going to totally escape the concept of 'genre.'


Absolutely. Genres are a time-tested publishing strategy aimed to help readers find the kind of books they like. The advantage of the e-book world is that a search for, say, "sci-fi" will bring up a wider range of books (including those that straddle genres) than you would see if you were perusing a bookstore sci-fi shelf. In a bookstore, those fringe/cross-genre books may have been shelved elsewhere, or would never have been published, if they were too hard to pigeonhole.


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## CarmenConnects (Oct 15, 2012)

PaulLev said:


> So the challenge to the cross-genre writer is to blend genres in a way that doesn't violate any expectations for each genre.


A really excellent dialogue going here! I especially appreciate the way Paul captured the critical point above. Many of us agree that combining genres can make for a richer reading experience but quality is still key.


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## NancyHerkness (Aug 1, 2012)

As people have noted, genre classification has several useful purposes:

1) It tells booksellers where to shelve books (although I once found my contemporary romance SHOWER OF STARS shelved in sci-fi because the hero was a meteorite hunter, so even marking the spine "romance" doesn't always work);

2) It tells readers what expectations will be satisfied by the book (a happy ending, a solved mystery, lots of action);

3) It allows publishers to target their marketing more effectively.

That said, I love the online ability to cross-classify books.  It opens up the parameters of writing within a genre, something romance writers have been doing for a long time without being able to market their books effectively to a broader audience.  Thanks to online booksellers such as Amazon, authors have so much more power to reach readers who might not buy their work if it was classified as straightforward "romance".  Marketing can both sliced thin and carefully targeted.  It gives writers a wonderful flexibility.

I love this brave new world!


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## SteveScaffardi (Sep 6, 2011)

PaulLev said:


> The problem with cross-genres is indeed that physical bookstores were and are usually willing to shelve a book in only one place.
> 
> And that's one big advantage of Amazon and all ebook sellers - there's no problem in multi-tags.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with Paul! When I first saw this post, the first thing I thought was that genres are simply there to help the bookstores out!

Although I think tags are a great way to describe a book, I do think that there can sometimes be a downfall in that what I tag a book as could be completely different to the next person, so now you have too many genres!

But as author, surely the whole point is that you are being creative, and you tell the story however you want to tell it. Why should you be restricted to what line the story should follow. If you want to write about a time traveling elephant who has fallen in love with a princess from a plane far, far, away, then all them power to you!

Noe come on, who else would like to read that book!!


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

There's one thing I disagree with Paul over. I don't _have_ expectations of genres ... I want genre writers to wow me, do something that I'd never before expected from that type of writing. William Gibson's _Neuromancer_ was an extremely good case in point -- it took a lot of stuff from earlier science fiction, but then wove it into a completely different cloth.


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

Tony Richards said:


> There's one thing I disagree with Paul over. I don't _have_ expectations of genres ... I want genre writers to wow me, do something that I'd never before expected from that type of writing. William Gibson's _Neuromancer_ was an extremely good case in point -- it took a lot of stuff from earlier science fiction, but then wove it into a completely different cloth.


Here's a little elaboration on what I mean, Tony. Let's say you decided to have dinner in an Italian restaurant, because you were in the mood for Italian cuisine. If the menu you received, once you were seated, contained nothing but sushi and teriyaki, you would certainly be surprised, and, depending how much you were in the mood for calamari or veal piccata, you might even be annoyed enough to leave the restaurant. Of course, you might decide to try the sushi after all, because you like that, too. Or, you might try a Japanese dish that was deliberately designed to encompass Japanese and Italian cuisines - if that was to your liking, then that would be an example of a successful blending of genres. But all of what's going on in the above situation has to do with expectations of the diner - which I think is a fair analogy to expectations of the reader.

Steve and Carmen - thanks!


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## donnettetxgirl (Nov 9, 2012)

From first hand experience I understand why an author has to put their book into a specific category.

But I completely dislike the way most agents and publishers will shy away from a multiple-genre book. To me they are the most interesting reads. I get a flavor of all the different genres I like wrapped in one book.

Donnette Smith


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## Steverino (Jan 5, 2011)

CarmenConnects said:


> I dislike the notion of pigeon-holing books into specific genres. Some great books have combined genres--Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer was history-mystery-paranormal while the fantasy-mystery-romance mix is gaining popularity. But are readers intrigued or turned off by mixed genre books? And where should bookstores shelve them?


I think "genre" is becoming an old-fashioned word, like "paper." All this talk of sub-genres might say something about our human need to categorize, but it isn't very useful for books. Is romantic sci-fi different from sci-fi romance? I'd leave that for the academics.

Tags, on the other hand, are inclusive, and more importantly, useful. I don't know where bookstores should shelve all these glorious hybrids. But you can store my books in the cloud.


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

Steverino said:


> you can store my books in the cloud.


Good line!


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## Debbie Bennett (Mar 25, 2011)

Things like sf and fantasy, though, are more "settings" than genre. A fantasy can be a fantasy simply because it's set in an alternate world where magic is used, for example. There still has to be a story within that world - something's got to happen and that might determine the actual genre. A murder in a fantasy world for instance will be classified in fantasy but is unlikely to be stuck on a shelf with crime books. Although historical crime seem to blur the boundaries.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Steverino said:


> I think "genre" is becoming an old-fashioned word, like "paper." All this talk of sub-genres might say something about our human need to categorize, but it isn't very useful for books. Is romantic sci-fi different from sci-fi romance? I'd leave that for the academics.
> 
> Tags, on the other hand, are inclusive, and more importantly, useful. I don't know where bookstores should shelve all these glorious hybrids. But you can store my books in the cloud.


Sorry as a reader I disagree. There is nothing old fashioned about getting exactly what I want and pay for. Like I already said earlier, if I order chocolate ice cream, that is what I want. Not strawberry, not vanilla, but chocolate.

That is what genres do for readers. Period. And a sci fi romance is a romance. A romantic sci fi might or might not be romance. There is a difference and anyone that reads and writes romance knows that. No academics needed. 

I can't say I have ever bought books based on tags. The tags on amazon are pretty useless most of the time as they are either put up by authors that just want to sqeeze their book into anything they can or by readers and some of them are really off for whatever reason.

A genre tells me exactly what I need to know and I can go from there. I am not a child, I am an adult reader and I know what I want.

So for me genre classification is especially important for books. I can't even imagine going to the library or books store without any genres. How would I find anything I want to read. And there are no tags in bookstores. And to me a book is a book. A ebook is exactly the same book that the paper version. I do not talk about books in a either or. The book is the book and there is a file version and a paper version. Same product in its meaning. So they should be categorized exactly the same.

My library categorizes the paper versions of books in the same respective genres as the ebooks.

It works. Tags can be helpful to add stuff, but they can never replace a genre category.


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