# Picture is Worth 1000 Words?



## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I think this probably speaks for itself. 









Happy one year anniversary to me under my new plan. (don't 1-star me, please, or be mean. This is a celebratory post and also illustrating a point I've made before. If it makes you angry, think about why that is, don't take it out on my books.)


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## JRHolmes (Mar 6, 2014)

Congratulations on the success. This change has obviously worked well for you and is strong support for your opinions regarding writing for with attention to the prevailing market.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2015)

I don't know why anyone would be angry at you for being successful - congrats! You came up with a great marketing plan, wrote good books, and that's why you have those numbers to reflect it. I think you SHOULD be able to post a congratulatory post for yourself!


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

Absolutely awesome! Congratulations!!!!!


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## Adair Hart (Jun 12, 2015)

Holy smokes!    You're rocking it Annie!   Congratulations!


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## CarolynVMurray (Mar 13, 2015)

Angry!!!  I am just filled with enormous optimism, to know that this is possible. Thirty-seven books is a huge body of work. Truly, truly happy for you.

(And among all the other contributing factors, another good lesson on the importance of great covers.)


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

If only there was a pattern. Strong covers, a genre in favor, writing to the tastes of readers and pricing appropriately, valuing marketing as a tool to gain visibility, staying nimble, high quality finished product, regular and prolific releases, long hours of backbreaking work...

Nah.

Never mind.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Lol Blake. Shush 

Mind you, 37 titles is a bit of a misleading thing. 2 are under another pen name, another 5 are under yet another. Neither pen name makes more than 5-10 bucks a month, and those are the good months. Of the remaining 30, I think as many as 9 or so are permafree. The majority of sales happen on the 20sided books, the GPC novellas secondary, and a couple of novels that are alone as first in series with no follow up.  So... 5 books account for 90% of my sales, with another 3 novellas and a bundle, plus two novels, accounting for most of the rest of that. So, I'd say 11 titles make up 99.999% of what I earn.

I actually had more titles when I started 2014, but they are unpublished now because they sold pretty much nothing ever. I think I was over 40 titles at one point before I started culling my author profile and killing dead titles.

Quantity is good and nice and all and will give you options (provided it is quantity that people actually want, which many of my old things were, being over-priced short stories). Quantity without a plan to support it... not as good. As I think I demonstrate here. Quality, paying attention to what readers want, and having a solid plan and supporting and/or changing it as needed matter a lot more.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. You inspire me to write more/write better.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2015)

This. Is. Incredible.

It couldn't happen to a better writer. You put in the work, you were honest with yourself about what needed to change, and you did what it took. Your self-awareness and advice here is something I value so much. I've been a lurker fan for a while. This post made me smile.

And who the hell would be angry? You are a beacon of hope, Annie B. But it takes some hard f-ing work and talent. Stoked for you.


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## henderson (Jul 14, 2014)

Congratulations!!!

Thanks for sharing.

Here is to continued success.


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Annie,

What is your routine/strategy for "paying attention to what readers want" ?


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow, wow, wow, those are awesome figures!! Congratulations!!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

JessHayek69 said:


> Annie,
> 
> What is your routine/strategy for "paying attention to what readers want" ?


Read the genre you want to write in. Know what people who read that genre love and want. Know who you are writing for before you start writing. I made a list of everything I love to read about, then looked at what genre fit most of it. Then I picked that genre (urban fantasy) and reverse-outlined a bunch of bestselling and well-selling books in the genre (I read a ton of UF so I already knew a lot of the tropes etc) and looked at how each book and each longer series was structured. I then took my list and crammed pretty much all of it into the series, knowing I was aiming these books at a market best defined as "people who love books like Dresden Files and are giant nerds and gamers"...

Not saying you can't have success other ways, but in my experience, if you can't clearly and easily define the kind of reader you are writing for, it's going to be a very tough road to sales and money. There is a reason that when querying editors and agents, you are supposed to come up with an "elevator pitch"... I keep that in mind still when writing now even though I don't query anymore, and I make sure that whatever I'm writing has a pitch that I can explain in a line or two to anyone. I wouldn't undertake writing a book without having the concept and target audience nailed down like that first, personally.


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## JeanetteRaleigh (Jan 1, 2013)

Holy Annual Salary Batman!  That is awesome


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Annie B said:


> Read the genre you want to write in. Know what people who read that genre love and want. Know who you are writing for before you start writing. I made a list of everything I love to read about, then looked at what genre fit most of it. Then I picked that genre (urban fantasy) and reverse-outlined a bunch of bestselling and well-selling books in the genre (I read a ton of UF so I already knew a lot of the tropes etc) and looked at how each book and each longer series was structured. I then took my list and crammed pretty much all of it into the series, knowing I was aiming these books at a market best defined as "people who love books like Dresden Files and are giant nerds and gamers"...
> 
> Not saying you can't have success other ways, but in my experience, if you can't clearly and easily define the kind of reader you are writing for, it's going to be a very tough road to sales and money. There is a reason that when querying editors and agents, you are supposed to come up with an "elevator pitch"... I keep that in mind still when writing now even though I don't query anymore, and I make sure that whatever I'm writing has a pitch that I can explain in a line or two to anyone. I wouldn't undertake writing a book without having the concept and target audience nailed down like that first, personally.


Thanks Annie


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## R. M. Webb (Jul 24, 2014)

So cool to see. I have the utmost respect for you as a writer and publisher. Congratulations on reaping the rewards of you intelligent hard work. (Some people work hard, some people work smart, you seem to do both!)


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2015)

Annie B said:


> Read the genre you want to write in. Know what people who read that genre love and want. Know who you are writing for before you start writing. I made a list of everything I love to read about, then looked at what genre fit most of it. Then I picked that genre (urban fantasy) and reverse-outlined a bunch of bestselling and well-selling books in the genre (I read a ton of UF so I already knew a lot of the tropes etc) and looked at how each book and each longer series was structured. I then took my list and crammed pretty much all of it into the series, knowing I was aiming these books at a market best defined as "people who love books like Dresden Files and are giant nerds and gamers"...
> 
> Not saying you can't have success other ways, but in my experience, if you can't clearly and easily define the kind of reader you are writing for, it's going to be a very tough road to sales and money. There is a reason that when querying editors and agents, you are supposed to come up with an "elevator pitch"... I keep that in mind still when writing now even though I don't query anymore, and I make sure that whatever I'm writing has a pitch that I can explain in a line or two to anyone. I wouldn't undertake writing a book without having the concept and target audience nailed down like that first, personally.


Damn. That's some stellar advice.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Annie, no. Just no. You did not give the advice you paid for a chance. Did you put your 10 years in yet? How do you know these few dollars made aren't an anolmaly? If you want to still be writing into the next decade... wait, let me clarify... if you _need_ to still be writing a novel a month and a short story a day 20 years from now to keep your head above water, then you're going to have to pace your sales better.

Think about it. Do you really want to be retired at 50 and living on the Mediterranean, writing when the muse strikes you and chastising yourself for no longer being a "real" writer because you're not putting in 12-hour work days?

And I know it _feels_ like real money, but it isn't. I know you can pay off bills and buy nice things with it, but what you earn so quickly is going to evaporate just as quickly. Because that's what money does. Besides, writers need all that stress from unpaid bills to fuel their writing.

With patience, forbearance and long practice, you should be able to overcome this disadvantage you've put yourself at. And remember, every time you feel a 5-figure month closing in on you, we're here to help.

Chin up. if you persevere, you _can_ be a real writer ... one day.


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## AmberDa1 (Jul 23, 2012)

Congratulations, Annie!


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> With patience, forbearance and long practice, you should be able to overcome this disadvantage you've put yourself at. And remember, every time you feel a 5-figure month closing in on you, we're here to help.
> 
> Chin up. if you persevere, you _can_ be a real writer ... one day.


LOL
Congrats Annie and thanks for sharing!


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## AllyR (Oct 21, 2014)

Congratulations! Wow! Thank you so much for sharing.


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## Thisiswhywecan&#039;thavenicethings (May 3, 2013)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Annie, no. Just no. You did not give the advice you paid for a chance. Did you put your 10 years in yet? How do you know these few dollars made aren't an anolmaly? If you want to still be writing into the next decade... wait, let me clarify... if you _need_ to still be writing a novel a month and a short story a day 20 years from now to keep your head above water, then you're going to have to pace your sales better.
> 
> Think about it. Do you really want to be retired at 50 and living on the Mediterranean, writing when the muse strikes you and chastising yourself for no longer being a "real" writer because you're not putting in 12-hour work days?
> 
> ...


^^^^
Wins the Internet.

And congrats to Annie!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Annie, no. Just no. You did not give the advice you paid for a chance. Did you put your 10 years in yet? How do you know these few dollars made aren't an anolmaly? If you want to still be writing into the next decade... wait, let me clarify... if you _need_ to still be writing a novel a month and a short story a day 20 years from now to keep your head above water, then you're going to have to pace your sales better.
> 
> Think about it. Do you really want to be retired at 50 and living on the Mediterranean, writing when the muse strikes you and chastising yourself for no longer being a "real" writer because you're not putting in 12-hour work days?
> 
> ...


So the maximum amount of work for minimum returns plan WAS the key all along? Damn, guess I needed to give it 10 years instead of 4...  This is like the best thing I've ever read. My face hurts from laughing. I can almost hear their voices saying this, that's the sad part


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

Huge congrats!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Goulburn (May 21, 2014)

Congratulations, Annie. Thank you for sharing.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Just for data sake, I counted and I have 15 paid titles under this pen name. 5 of them account for almost all of my sales, as I said, with 6 others picking up the bulk of the leftover sales (the other 4 are collections of short stories and a novella which barely sell, maybe 10-30 copies a month if they are having a good month most of the time). The three collections and the novella that aren't in the main 11 titles earned me less than 1600 of the July to July time-frame, for example, and over 800 of that 1600 was earned by just one of those collections alone.

So... yeah. Quantity isn't always the answer. _What_ you have up and what you _do_ with it is far more important, in my experience, than how much you have. It's as possible to make very little on a lot of titles as it is on a few, just as it is as possible to make a lot on a few titles instead of many.


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Annie B said:


> Just for data sake, I counted and I have 15 paid titles under this pen name. 5 of them account for almost all of my sales, as I said, with 6 others picking up the bulk of the leftover sales (the other 4 are collections of short stories and a novella which barely sell, maybe 10-30 copies a month if they are having a good month most of the time). The three collections and the novella that aren't in the main 11 titles earned me less than 1600 of the July to July time-frame, for example, and over 800 of that 1600 was earned by just one of those collections alone.
> 
> So... yeah. Quantity isn't always the answer. _What_ you have up and what you _do_ with it is far more important, in my experience, than how much you have. It's as possible to make very little on a lot of titles as it is on a few, just as it is as possible to make a lot on a few titles instead of many.


Annie,

How far do you plan to continue the 20-sided stories? How many more sequels?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

This current story arc will wrap up with book 7. After that I have at least books 8 and 9 planned out (which will be pretty stand alone without too much of a bigger over-arching story) and at least 3 side-character novels. Then I have another bigger story arc planned, but it'll entirely depend on a) how I feel, b) how well they are still selling, and c) what else I have going on that might need my attention.

I have a lot of other series I'd like to work on, as well as other pen names I'd like to develop, but 20sided will definitely continue to be at least a 2 to 3 book a year series for the foreseeable future since I still have ideas.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

Annie B said:


> Then I picked that genre (urban fantasy) and reverse-outlined a bunch of bestselling and well-selling books in the genre (I read a ton of UF so I already knew a lot of the tropes etc) and looked at how each book and each longer series was structured.


Annie, if you don't mind me asking--what method did you use for reverse outlining? I've tried this a bunch of times but usually get a few chapters in and then give up.


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Continues to dream of just a fraction of Annie's success...  

Thanks again for sharing. It is definitely inspiring


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## Janeal Falor (Oct 25, 2014)

That's phenomenal, Annie! Congrats!


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## sugarhit (Feb 9, 2015)

Congratulations!!! I wish you much success



mshistory said:


> I don't know why anyone would be angry at you for being successful - congrats!


Because


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Great results.  Definitely provides a nice counterpoint to the whole, "just publish what you love without regard to market and eventually success comes" theory that tends to circulate.

As always, there are many ways to find success and many paths up the mountain.  But to say that some paths are riskier, tougher, and more thankless ways up the mountain--I think is a fair point.

Continued success, Annie!


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## TaxationIsTheft (Apr 15, 2015)

That is awesome, Annie. So much great advice in this thread, too. Congrats!


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## Susanne123 (Jan 9, 2014)

Way to go Annie!!!! Just love it.


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## GretchenPaintedQuill (Jun 3, 2015)

WOW!!!! Congrats!  As a total newb to the publishing world I find your success extremely inspiring!  

Now what the heck!?!  How do we learn what you've learned  What made you start this "new plan" and can you point me to any particular resources that helped you learn how to implement it?  

(Excuse me while I remove my jaw from the floor and start stalking your former forum posts!)


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## Lucas (Jul 15, 2014)

The numbers, they blind me! Congrats! (Your marketing style is surgical, it's like art).


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## SunnyDay913 (May 5, 2015)

Congratulations, Annie, and thank you for sharing your success with us! I can't tell you what it means to see other indie authors catapulting to success...it gives us newbies a reason to keep on pluggin' away. I was wondering if you might share a bit about your marketing strategy? I see that you are permafree. Do you promote the first using the book advertising sites (e.g., Freebooksy, ENT, and so on), or are you making use of Facebook ads or extensive social media or perhaps something else?


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Awesome post, Annie, and congratulations to you on some well-earned success. I don't think anyone doubts it's just going to get better for you from here.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Annie, no. Just no. You did not give the advice you paid for a chance. Did you put your 10 years in yet? How do you know these few dollars made aren't an anolmaly? If you want to still be writing into the next decade... wait, let me clarify... if you _need_ to still be writing a novel a month and a short story a day 20 years from now to keep your head above water, then you're going to have to pace your sales better.
> 
> Think about it. Do you really want to be retired at 50 and living on the Mediterranean, writing when the muse strikes you and chastising yourself for no longer being a "real" writer because you're not putting in 12-hour work days?
> 
> ...


Laughing so hard I'm almost crying ...


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

Annie, this is brilliant and inspiring and I love every single damn one of these kinds of posts. I'm sure you've detailed ad nauseum on other spots on the boards a little bit more about what exactly you did differently in the last year as opposed to the six months before that. If you've got a good post that already does that, could you link to it? Otherwise, would you mind just a few bullet points talking about what you've done differently?

Thanks! Dan.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

It wasn't six months that looked like that. That's just what Bookreport had that I could screenshot.  It was four years. I started self-publishing in July of 2010. Other than one blip of success (which I didn't follow up, sigh), those years looked like that for most of it. Occasionally I got frustrated and tried things, but I had people I trusted telling me that I was just getting impatient and hurting the long-term potential of my career with the things I was trying (like Select in the early days and perma-free etc), and I stupidly listened because I thought they had more success than they had and they had tons of experience in publishing. What I ignored was that they had experience in the OLD world of publishing and I believed their excuses and sometimes outright lies about how they were doing under the new models. 

So I ended up in Jan of 2014, with over 40 titles up, I sold 18 copies, total. I had high pricing, because I was told that only bargain hunters who don't really care about reading books and won't become "real" fans would read cheap books. I had no freebies, because perma-free is stupid and devaluing my work. I was writing whatever I felt like and nothing thinking about genre or market until after it was done, because I was told not to let readers into my writing space and not to worry about a market for a thing until it was done already. Stuff like that. Frustrated, I dropped my prices completely across the board to what I saw on the top 100 lists in my genres. I made 9 titles permafree. In Feb, I sold 61 copies.  Sharing that information with my mentors (KKR and DWS) got me banned from workshops and told I was an idiot and was in a hurry and was ruining my career. They told me I'd sold more copies because my work had gotten better (work that was years old, mind you, nothing new released, so not sure how it magically became better written, but when I tried to point that out, I got shouted at). 

Anyway, I realized I had to make a real change and to start following advice that demonstrably worked. I unpublished a lot of older work. I re-covered stuff. And I started to plan a new series, something that would be written with the market in mind. I joined some indie groups with people who sold very well, and I asked questions and listened. I vetted the people I was listening to, also. If they seemed cagey about earnings, or their rankings and reviews and presentations didn't match up, I ignored them. I'd learned the hard way, but I feel strongly if people are going to give advice, and especially if they are going to charge money for it, they should be held up to a very high standard and be willing to let their own results come under the microscope. I tried to take everything I'd done wrong, everything people like KKR and DWS advise (beyond the common sense stuff like writing a lot, obviously), and do the opposite. 

I was drowning in medical debt, on bed rest for first 6 months of 2014 I was so sick, and looking at the end of my writing career because by November of 2014, I knew we wouldn't be able to pay rent anymore, much less the medical bills. My husband had a job that was barely keeping a roof over our head, but we were out of options and our expenses were more than our income, especially with the medical bills.  I took a huge risk when I put my covers and editing on a nearly maxed out credit card, but it was at the point where I had nothing much left to lose, either.  It was either make this new plan work, or quit for the foreseeable future and try to find something else I could make money at while this sick.

So here was my new plan and the best advice I can give:
1) Write a series with readership and market in mind. Know your genre, its tropes and what readers really love about THAT genre, then make it your own without breaking genre conventions.
2) Invest in your business. Covers, formatting, editing etc. Don't skimp. You want wow-factor covers, if you can, that fit the genre and market straight at your target readership. Plan for success, don't just tell yourself you'll upgrade later if you have success.
3) Release first book cheap or free (especially if you don't have a built-in audience of thousands for whatever the genre is). No barrier to entry. You want to suck them in.
4) Release often. Something every month is best, but every 3 months is about as far as I'd space things out. (Health issues are making me take longer this year, and it shows in my earnings. I've lost tons of money by having to release every 4-5 months).  This is especially important with the first three books in a series, in my experience. After that people are generally hooked or not and will wait a little longer (though there will still be a drop that is scary the longer you take to release something new and you could lose all momentum if you take too long).
5) Trap as much reader engagement and information as you can. Mailing list is king with that, but also have calls to action for reviews etc.
6) Promote! Market! This doesn't mean spamming things everywhere, but it does mean paying attention to what sites and what kind of marketing are working for people who sell much better than you in your genre. It means being willing to monkey with pricing, with blurbs, with doing cooperative things with other writers like box sets etc, and just continually trying new things to keep the existing works paying out.


There are multiple ways to get financial success and wide readership. This is just what I did, so it's the advice and experience/results I can offer up.


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## Nick Endi Webb (Mar 25, 2012)

Annie B said:


> 1) Write a series with readership and market in mind. Know your genre, its tropes and what readers really love about THAT genre, then make it your own without breaking genre conventions.
> 2) Invest in your business. Covers, formatting, editing etc. Don't skimp. You want wow-factor covers, if you can, that fit the genre and market straight at your target readership. Plan for success, don't just tell yourself you'll upgrade later if you have success.
> 3) Release first book cheap or free (especially if you don't have a built-in audience of thousands for whatever the genre is). No barrier to entry. You want to suck them in.
> 4) Release often. Something every month is best, but every 3 months is about as far as I'd space things out. (Health issues are making me take longer this year, and it shows in my earnings. I've lost tons of money by having to release every 4-5 months). This is especially important with the first three books in a series, in my experience. After that people are generally hooked or not and will wait a little longer (though there will still be a drop that is scary the longer you take to release something new and you could lose all momentum if you take too long).
> ...


This should be pinned. Except that would make for stiffer competition. Nothing to see here, folks! Move along!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Kenzi said:


> Annie, if you don't mind me asking--what method did you use for reverse outlining? I've tried this a bunch of times but usually get a few chapters in and then give up.


I dunno how other people do it. I just read the book and make a note each chapter of what happens in a very general way. So it might be like:

Chapter 1: MC introduced, status quo shown, problem #1 appears
Chapter 2: Antagonist appears, problem 1 solved but leads to bigger problem
Chapter 3: Emotional conflicts with MC and friends

Etc. Just the major events and emotional beats so I can see the structure and how the flow of the book goes. It'd probably be tough to figure out which book I'd reversed outlined just from what I write down, since I make pretty general notes. I don't want to copy other books, I just want to see what the beats are, how action and both external and internal conflicts etc. Once you do that for five or ten books in your genre, you start to see a lot of similarities, and it can be a good guide for how to know you are hitting the beats too.

I also write down common elements and themes etc, for the same reason.


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

Annie, thank you! I really appreciate your generous response


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

Awesome original post--still blinking from the numbers!!  And followed by even more awesome words of wisdom. Thank you so much, Annie.

(But sheesh I wish all the successful writers/publishers/sellers in this cafe would stop talking about *hard work*. Y'all sound like my mother. )


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm not angry at your success, you've obviously found what works for you and that is awesome, but I fail to see why you can't let go of your anger at DWS and KKR. Their way didn't work for you (and maybe didn't work for them, I'm not privy to all their pen names and works), so why not let it go and be happy?

_Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

she-la-ti-da said:


> I'm not angry at your success, you've obviously found what works for you and that is awesome, but I fail to see why you can't let go of your anger at DWS and KKR. Their way didn't work for you (and maybe didn't work for them, I'm not privy to all their pen names and works), so why not let it go and be happy?
> 
> _Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


I am sure Annie is capable of managing her own emotional health.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

Annie B said:


> I dunno how other people do it. I just read the book and make a note each chapter of what happens in a very general way. So it might be like:
> 
> Chapter 1: MC introduced, status quo shown, problem #1 appears
> Chapter 2: Antagonist appears, problem 1 solved but leads to bigger problem
> ...


Thanks, Annie. I think my problem is that I'm trying to outline with too much detail. I'll try it like this and see if it works out. My NA and stepbrother books sell really well, but my shifter romances are just dead. They sell very little, and I think it's because I'm not hitting the right tropes and genre expectations. Most of my comments are along the lines of "not what I expected" or "great but different." I'm going to try outlining a stack of shifter books to see if that will help.



Daniel Kenney said:


> Annie, thank you! I really appreciate your generous response


This! Thanks so much for sharing what works for you. It's a huge help to the rest of us tiny prawns.


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## garyjonas (Feb 24, 2013)

Congratulations on your success, Annie!  You rock!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

she-la-ti-da said:


> I'm not angry at your success, you've obviously found what works for you and that is awesome, but I fail to see why you can't let go of your anger at DWS and KKR. Their way didn't work for you (and maybe didn't work for them, I'm not privy to all their pen names and works), so why not let it go and be happy?
> 
> _Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


Because they are continuing to sell advice they know doesn't work. As as I said in one of my posts, I think people who sell advice and are held up as "gurus" or whatever should be held to a high standard. I hold Konrath and Hugh and people to a high standard also, for hte same reason (though they give away their advice for free). Real careers are at stake, and people should have real, honest information on which to base their decisions. So yeah, people potentially hurting careers through (in my experience and opinion etc) poor advice and poor representation of the actual results of that advice makes me unhappy. Not just because it hurt my career for years, but because I know people, good writers who work very hard, who continue to pay for that bad advice, and who live in a world of frustration wondering what is going wrong and just praying for that promised "long-term success" that never seems to show up.

For me, if you are going to give advice (and especially beg for money for it and/or sell it for money)... you should be able to stand up to scrutiny and be able to offer up real data that is supported by outside sources as well for your results, or you are potentially misleading people who will go on and make real decisions about real careers, potentially causing themselves real harm because of poor or incomplete information.

And yes, I feel strongly about that. Strongly enough that I came back from being anon here on Kboards, because I realized if I am going to give advice and share my experiences, I should back it up with real information anyone can go check. As you can see in the original screenshot right here in this thread, I am literally putting my results out there for people to take or leave as they will.


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

Annie B said:


> Because they are continuing to sell advice they know doesn't work. As as I said in one of my posts, I think people who sell advice and are held up as "gurus" or whatever should be held to a high standard. I hold Konrath and Hugh and people to a high standard also, for hte same reason (though they give away their advice for free). Real careers are at stake, and people should have real, honest information on which to base their decisions. So yeah, people potentially hurting careers through (in my experience and opinion etc) poor advice and poor representation of the actual results of that advice makes me unhappy. Not just because it hurt my career for years, but because I know people, good writers who work very hard, who continue to pay for that bad advice, and who live in a world of frustration wondering what is going wrong and just praying for that promised "long-term success" that never seems to show up.
> 
> For me, if you are going to give advice (and especially beg for money for it and/or sell it for money)... you should be able to stand up to scrutiny and be able to offer up real data that is supported by outside sources as well for your results, or you are potentially misleading people who will go on and make real decisions about real careers, potentially causing themselves real harm because of poor or incomplete information.
> 
> And yes, I feel strongly about that. Strongly enough that I came back from being anon here on Kboards, because I realized if I am going to give advice and share my experiences, I should back it up with real information anyone can go check. As you can see in the original screenshot right here in this thread, I am literally putting my results out there for people to take or leave as they will.


So much this. There are so many people who admire your courage to speak out, to own your success and to change your tactics in the face of people who put you down when you disputed their methods. Your success inspires others and you have clearly shown evidence to support your methods.

You gave everything to your dreams and now it's giving back  congrats!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Kenzi said:


> Thanks, Annie. I think my problem is that I'm trying to outline with too much detail. I'll try it like this and see if it works out. My NA and stepbrother books sell really well, but my shifter romances are just dead. They sell very little, and I think it's because I'm not hitting the right tropes and genre expectations. Most of my comments are along the lines of "not what I expected" or "great but different." I'm going to try outlining a stack of shifter books to see if that will help.
> 
> This! Thanks so much for sharing what works for you. It's a huge help to the rest of us tiny prawns.


Yeah, definitely just keep track of what the common things are between the books. Usually 10 is a good number, and to make sure you are reading things that sell well, but also things that sell well for more than a month or two. I've found that helps, to study the books that don't just rise high, but the ones that rise up and stick. But I'm a crazy heavy reader and believe in reading widely, no matter what you are writing. Genre familiarity is good though, for sure.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Annie B said:


> For me, if you are going to give advice (and especially beg for money for it and/or sell it for money)... you should be able to stand up to scrutiny and be able to offer up real data that is supported by outside sources as well for your results, or you are potentially misleading people who will go on and make real decisions about real careers, potentially causing themselves real harm because of poor or incomplete information.
> 
> And yes, I feel strongly about that. Strongly enough that I came back from being anon here on Kboards, because I realized if I am going to give advice and share my experiences, I should back it up with real information anyone can go check. As you can see in the original screenshot right here in this thread, I am literally putting my results out there for people to take or leave as they will.


Yeah, kudos to you for having the guts to put yourself out there in this way. Part of me wants to but I just don't wish to deal with the inevitable blowback.

I really respect the folks like you and Amanda and Hugh, Konrath, etc. who are out and about making bold statements with your name on the line.

Personally I don't have the courage, I'm just saying that I appreciate you do.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2015)

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing. There is so much information out there, it can be overwhelming. As a numbers person, I love to see theories backed up with results and your experiences are timely for me. I did the shotgun thing (even worse, in a niche genre!) and have 3 series started but no discernible improvement in sales. I decided it was time for a change of approach, to rationalise and do some research. I'm about to rebrand my main series (5 books out) and make #1 permafree. I'm ditching the other 2 non-starter series and I'm researching a larger genre and planning a whole new series based around what sells. Fingers crossed I can come back in a couple of years with results like you have.


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

Congrats! Go you! You've proven if you stick to your guns and do what your heart and brain tells you to do, you will succeed. Thanks for sharing!


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

Tilly said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for sharing. There is so much information out there, it can be overwhelming. As a numbers person, I love to see theories backed up with results and your experiences are timely for me. I did the shotgun thing (even worse, in a niche genre!) and have 3 series started but no discernible improvement in sales. I decided it was time for a change of approach, to rationalise and do some research. I'm about to rebrand my main series (5 books out) and make #1 permafree. I'm ditching the other 2 non-starter series and I'm researching a larger genre and planning a whole new series based around what sells. Fingers crossed I can come back in a couple of years with results like you have.


Hey kudos to you with this plan. It's so hard to change lanes when you've worked so hard! The business of selling well is about shaking things up sometimes and taking risks. Taking risks can be difficult even for the most courageous. I wish you much success and hope to hear good news over the next year. Keep us updated.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2015)

KJC said:


> Hey kudos to you with this plan. It's so hard to change lanes when you've worked so hard! The business of selling well is about shaking things up sometimes and taking risks. Taking risks can be difficult even for the most courageous. I wish you much success and hope to hear good news over the next year. Keep us updated.


thank you 
There's a great quote by Einstein, that goes something along the lines, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
What I was doing, wasn't getting me the results I wanted, so I decided to change course. It's great to hear that its working for Annie. I'm hoping a little of the k-boards success mojo rubs off if I hang around here long enough! lol


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

Tilly said:


> thank you
> There's a great quote by Einstein, that goes something along the lines, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
> What I was doing, wasn't getting me the results I wanted, so I decided to change course. It's great to hear that its working for Annie. I'm hoping a little of the k-boards success mojo rubs off if I hang around here long enough! lol


I have been here a long time (this isn't my first profile) and I can see you have the attitude that tends to do well. Even though I think I am doing well, I have some regrets and wish I had taken more risks and been more flexible at the start.


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## My Dog&#039;s Servant (Jun 2, 2013)

At the end of a trying day and a weekend with internet down (for a large swath of the island), I'm catching up....and what a way to catch up!  Whoo Hoo! and HOORAY! for you!  That is truly an achievement worth celebrating, Annie!  You've just brightened my evening!


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

My Dog's Servant said:


> At the end of a trying day and a weekend with internet down (for a large swath of the island), I'm catching up....and what a way to catch up! Whoo Hoo! and HOORAY! for you! That is truly an achievement worth celebrating, Annie! You've just brightened my evening!


Your profile name rocks.


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## My Dog&#039;s Servant (Jun 2, 2013)

It's called truth in advertising.    I'm presently here with a dog on either end of the couch and one on the floor at my feet. If they had fingers, they'd be pointing at the clock and telling me it's time for dinner. As it is, they're just sort of staring mournfully at me, reminding me they're fading away......  So.......Now that I'm feeling really energized from Annie's wonderful thread, I guess I'll get up and go feed 'em.


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

My Dog's Servant said:


> It's called truth in advertising.  I'm presently here with a dog on either end of the couch and one on the floor at my feet. If they had fingers, they'd be pointing at the clock and telling me it's time for dinner. As it is, they're just sort of staring mournfully at me, reminding me they're fading away...... So.......Now that I'm feeling really energized from Annie's wonderful thread, I guess I'll get up and go feed 'em.


I have the same problem with my cats.


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## Michael Kingswood (Feb 18, 2011)

Big congrats, Annie.    Always great to see a good person do well.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Annie B said:


> So here was my new plan and the best advice I can give:
> 1) Write a series with readership and market in mind. Know your genre, its tropes and what readers really love about THAT genre, then make it your own without breaking genre conventions.
> 2) Invest in your business. Covers, formatting, editing etc. Don't skimp. You want wow-factor covers, if you can, that fit the genre and market straight at your target readership. Plan for success, don't just tell yourself you'll upgrade later if you have success.
> 3) Release first book cheap or free (especially if you don't have a built-in audience of thousands for whatever the genre is). No barrier to entry. You want to suck them in.
> ...












But seriously, great post. I'd add it to Russell Blake's 'My System Spelled Out' and SM Reine's latest one as essential reads for newcomers and veterans alike.

I can't pretend I'm anywhere near as successful as you, but I too went from following a methodology of releasing whatever I wanted without much attention to the market, to a system similar to the one you describe - writing stuff I enjoy writing/reading that also happens to have a market, branding it well, pricing it well, promoting it well.

Not so coincidentally, I went from consistently making three figures a month to consistently making four or five figures a month. And some of that money is on the older stuff, which I rebranded, lowered the prices of, etc. The bulk of it's on my newer series though, which has a lot of parallels with your Twenty Sided Sorceress in that I wrote it with a keen awareness of what readers actually want, how to package it, etc.

So thanks for all the advice over the last few months. And massive congratulations on your latest milestone.


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Annie, I'm SO SO SO damn happy to see you rocking the world! Congratulations for having the guts to come back strong after falling down hard. The story of the medical issues you had to deal with moved me to tears.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and numbers too. I love the idea of reverse-outlining. I never thought of doing it, but I'm definitely going to get my ass on the couch today, read a few books and do what you described. There's certainly a formula (I know that sounds dry, but it's the best way to describe it) to putting beats and twists in the plot at the right places, at the right moments, and this formula needs to be analyzed, learned and practically applied.

Keep strong, and keep shining and sharing! I'm still waiting for the day to see your name on that Forbes list, darlin'.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

You've always been so courageous and generous, and, from one Annie to another, I thank you! You're an inspiration to us all, and keep on spreading your message about what works.


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Annie, I have a question: do you outline? 

How do you treat series? Do you have ideas for several books and outline the series or do you outline book 1 only, write it, then start working on book 2?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Jessie Jasen said:


> Annie, I have a question: do you outline?
> 
> How do you treat series? Do you have ideas for several books and outline the series or do you outline book 1 only, write it, then start working on book 2?


I outline. I usually go through 2-5 outlines per book, so they aren't set in stone, I have one before I start and then adjust it as needed as the book takes shape.

For series, I do a general outline also and know where I'm going and what I'm trying to accomplish. For me, I don't like to start writing until I can see the book running in my head like a movie. And the movie still changes.

I also use the 2k to 10k technique of doing a quick pre-write of any scene before I write it. Usually just a paragraph jotted down before I start a scene where I outline what has to happen, what emotional and plot beat I want to hit, etc. It really helps me focus and makes the writing go much more quickly.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Incredible results, congratulations and thanks for sharing your success and tips.


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## Gone Girl (Mar 7, 2015)

We miss you, Harvey Chute.


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## delly_xo (Oct 29, 2014)

Annie B said:


> I also use the 2k to 10k technique of doing a quick pre-write of any scene before I write it. Usually just a paragraph jotted down before I start a scene where I outline what has to happen, what emotional and plot beat I want to hit, etc. It really helps me focus and makes the writing go much more quickly.


I love that technique. I've found it to be extremely helpful in my own writing. 
Congrats on your amazing success and having the courage to take risks!


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Annie, I have another question: how much marketing and promoting do you do? How often? Which strategies work best for you and which sites do you use?

I image that even though you have a lot of books written, just having them sit there won't churn the sales. Is my assumption correct?

Thanks so much!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't do that much advertising. I've had one Bookbub (in May). I've used Freebooksy and ENT a couple times, and a few runs with smaller sites like Bknights etc. I just started messing with FB ads last month with okay results but nothing special (I'm still a newb at them, ha). 

Mostly the marketing I do is through pricing (making things free or cheap), or through doing stuff like multi-author bundles (first book in the 20sided series has been in three so far, and I've done two others with other books of mine). And a lot of it is the passive kind, ie keywords and cover art and stuff like that. 

So... I'm not the best marketer.  It's something I need to work on, but I only have so much energy and time, so I do what I can. I get ads when I can, I try to make sure covers, categories/keywords, blurbs, and all that are as good as I can make them, etc. I have a mailing list that I use to notify of new releases. I occasionally update my blog or FB fan page with new release stuff. I talk about random shit on Twitter (not sure that really counts as marketing, ha, since I hardly ever mention my books). 

I've tried a lot of different things and had pretty mixed results. Blog tours didn't work for me at all. Sending out review copies was mostly a waste of time (I got a few off LibraryThing, but it was like 2-4 reviews per 100 copies sent out).  Doing Kindle giveaways and FB parties were a total waste of my time and resulted in freeloaders on my mailing list who unsubscribed as soon as I sent a real message once the giveaways were over.  So I stick with the websites that give some return when I can get them, I'm going to keep trying with FB ads, and I'm going to keep doing the more passive stuff, but I don't know if I'll ever be on any cutting edge of marketing. I'm too lazy.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Annie B said:


> I don't do that much advertising. I've had one Bookbub (in May). I've used Freebooksy and ENT a couple times, and a few runs with smaller sites like Bknights etc. I just started messing with FB ads last month with okay results but nothing special (I'm still a newb at them, ha).
> 
> Mostly the marketing I do is through pricing (making things free or cheap), or through doing stuff like multi-author bundles (first book in the 20sided series has been in three so far, and I've done two others with other books of mine). And a lot of it is the passive kind, ie keywords and cover art and stuff like that.
> 
> ...


Marketing can be a time sink. I do about the same as you, Annie. I have a few promo lists that I use, and collaborating with other authors works well. But there's only so much time, and I'd rather be writing, because ultimately, a new book is the best form of marketing you can do (in my opinion).


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## Overrated (Mar 20, 2015)

Thank you,  Annie,  for this post.  I loved reading your posts as the cat,  too. They make sense.  What I really love is that you're transparent and willing to put yourself out there in the name of helping others.  It's very brave and I applaud you. It's also hard to change gears and admit that in spite of the blood,  sweat,  and tears we are not on the right track.  Very hard.  Thank you for sharing that and what you changed.  

This attitude is one of the things I love best about the indie world.  We share.  We back up our statements with real data. And we're willing to share.  It's so appreciated. 

Thank you.  Big, huge congratulations.  You deserve it.


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## Shei Darksbane (Jan 31, 2015)

Thanks so much Annie! You're a daily inspiration to me, doing what I hope to do one day. 
I really love the data and immense amounts of information you've given. This thread is brilliant.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2015)

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your lack of BS when it comes to what you share here. Your posts really hit home with me. I suffer from a chronic illness that makes getting an ordinary job difficult. (Not impossible, but life becomes unbearable and tends to make my auto-immune issues worse) So the energy I used to put into my old job I now spill into my books and I feel lucky that I live in a time where this is even an option. I really appreciate you being candid about what works for you and what doesn't. You're not someone who complains or curses the industry. You get that none of us are entitled to crap and that we have to earn what we get by staying on top of what works and what doesn't and by becoming better writers. When you aren't here for a couple days I get bummed.

Also, I am on book 2 of the Twenty-sided Sorceress series (Murder of Crows) and you can plain write. Loved the first book.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Annie, no. Just no. You did not give the advice you paid for a chance. Did you put your 10 years in yet? How do you know these few dollars made aren't an anolmaly? If you want to still be writing into the next decade... wait, let me clarify... if you _need_ to still be writing a novel a month and a short story a day 20 years from now to keep your head above water, then you're going to have to pace your sales better.
> 
> Think about it. Do you really want to be retired at 50 and living on the Mediterranean, writing when the muse strikes you and chastising yourself for no longer being a "real" writer because you're not putting in 12-hour work days?
> 
> ...


Ah, I'm bang on track. Thank you, Phoenix!

And congratulations, Grumpy Cat Woman. I'm jealous!


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## J.A. Cipriano (May 27, 2014)

I just wanted to say that as soon as I saw the cover for the first twenty sided book, I had to click it. Then when I read the blurb I had to own the book. That's pretty powerful when you consider I personally have bought exactly 5 books this whole year and three of them were ones I'd been wanting a long time but my library refused to stock...


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## J.J. Fitch (Jun 17, 2015)

Annie B said:


> I think this probably speaks for itself.


It really does! Thank you for sharing this and inspiring so many of us!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Just shows that the harder you work the luckier you get   Congrats.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Jan- in many ways, yes   But it isn't just hard work, I've found. It's also working hard on things that have a chance, and working smart too 

BelleAC- thanks. That's always nice to hear!  And yeah, chronic illness takes a toll on life and energy that is hard to explain to healthy people. It sucks. Hugs.


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## Shei Darksbane (Jan 31, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> I can't tell you how much I appreciate your lack of BS when it comes to what you share here. Your posts really hit home with me. I suffer from a chronic illness that makes getting an ordinary job difficult. (Not impossible, but life becomes unbearable and tends to make my auto-immune issues worse) So the energy I used to put into my old job I now spill into my books and I feel lucky that I live in a time where this is even an option. I really appreciate you being candid about what works for you and what doesn't. You're not someone who complains or curses the industry. You get that none of us are entitled to crap and that we have to earn what we get by staying on top of what works and what doesn't and by becoming better writers. When you aren't here for a couple days I get bummed.


+1 Chronic illness. >_< I feel you both so much. It's hard going non-stop all the time while dealing with chronic illness. (Of course, stress really exacerbates everything for me, and I've noticed that the closer I get to a deadline the more unbearable my OCD becomes).

I also really appreciate Annie's candor. Always have. Thanks so much for giving us newbs a chance to get it right early on.


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## ToniD (May 3, 2011)

Eye-popping  

Smarts and talent and go a long way. Congrats Annie.


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## DaniO (Oct 22, 2012)

Thanks so much for sharing this. It's a huge help. I just picked up Justice Calling from the co.uk store. It's not my usual genre, but the blurb hooked me.


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

Annie B said:


> I dunno how other people do it. I just read the book and make a note each chapter of what happens in a very general way. So it might be like:
> 
> Chapter 1: MC introduced, status quo shown, problem #1 appears
> Chapter 2: Antagonist appears, problem 1 solved but leads to bigger problem
> ...


Thanks for this, I'm definitely going to try it!


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## DawnLee (Aug 17, 2014)

Truly inspiring, and you've earned every dime. I so admire your work ethic.

Nonetheless; I don't care how much money you make, you're still NoCat, simply because NoCat makes me happy and my happiness is really what this is all about.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

great job!

I would never one-star you or anyone


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## Midnight Whimsy (Jun 25, 2013)

Congrats, Annie! That is absolutely fantastic, and I can't say thank you enough for all the thoughts, strategies, and info you've shared in this thread and others.  Would you be willing to discuss your pricing strategy for the 20-sided series? I'm thinking of changing the prices on my series but scared to make a change and tank my sales...

Thanks!

M.W


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

It's easy. .99 for first, 2.99 for second, 3.99 for 3 and 4 etc. When sales of 1 flagged, I applied for a BB and set it to perma-free.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

Congratulations Annie! Super inspiring. Thank you for sharing all this advice.


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

I know I'm late to this party, but I just followed a link from another thread here and was blown away. Congrats! And congrats on the Alfie! Very cool, and very inspiring!


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I love these threads.  They make me look at my pile of unfinished work and realize it really is worth it to keep going.  I may never have this level of success, but I have something to shoot for.

Thank you for sharing with us!


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## KGorman (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks for sharing! This is definitely kicking me back into production mode after a few days off! Congratulations!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks 

I'm chewing my nails off today though. #39 in the store. WEEEEEEEEEE

Aiming for the USAT list this week. We'll see I guess. I'm gonna sing the doom song now


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Congrats, congrats, congrats! 

You give me courage to play with my pricing. I've done well with 3.99 across the board, but Book 1 is a year old now, ranking has dropped significantly, and things are  due for a shakeup. Who knows what might happen if I play with the pricing!

Still, it's scary.


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Annie B said:


> Thanks
> 
> I'm chewing my nails off today though. #39 in the store. WEEEEEEEEEE
> 
> Aiming for the USAT list this week. We'll see I guess. I'm gonna sing the doom song now


Number 25 when I just checked. The only sensible response I could think of was to buy my own copy.

Break a leg. And congrats.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

#21 now  Might be the peak, but it was a helluva day.


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Congratulations Annie! I just got my copy and can hardly wait to read it.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

How'd I miss this thread? Congrats, and good luck on the USAT! Go go go!

Being _wrong_ never felt so right, huh?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Seem to have peaked today at #21 on Amazon and #3 on B&N. I can live with that. Still only about halfway to enough sales for the USAT list, but I have promo lined up for this week too, so here's hoping!


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## aimeeeasterling (Sep 22, 2014)

Annie B said:


> Thanks
> 
> I'm chewing my nails off today though. #39 in the store. WEEEEEEEEEE
> 
> Aiming for the USAT list this week. We'll see I guess. I'm gonna sing the doom song now


Wow! It looks like your box set is at #23 paid now. That's amazing!


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## Ros_Jackson (Jan 11, 2014)

Congratulations. What shocks me is how little you made with the same number of titles, and how fairly small tweaks of strategy and branding have made a huge difference. 

Your pen names that haven't taken off suggest that it's not something you can easily repeat. I presume you've used a similar pricing strategy with them, good covers, writing to market but in different genres? It's my feeling that if you make just one mistake (such as not releasing often enough, covers that aren't quite right, the wrong kind of marketing) your books won't see success. Is that what you think happened with your pen names?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Ros_Jackson said:


> Congratulations. What shocks me is how little you made with the same number of titles, and how fairly small tweaks of strategy and branding have made a huge difference.
> 
> Your pen names that haven't taken off suggest that it's not something you can easily repeat. I presume you've used a similar pricing strategy with them, good covers, writing to market but in different genres? It's my feeling that if you make just one mistake (such as not releasing often enough, covers that aren't quite right, the wrong kind of marketing) your books won't see success. Is that what you think happened with your pen names?


One pen name is literary fiction, all short stories, no new titles published in it since 2012. The other is a thriller pen name, one free short, one novel, nothing new published in that since 2012 either. So... not really surprising that they don't sell. The thriller actually did okay for a couple months back in 2011 when it was first published, and was one of my first big mistakes. Instead of following up what was working, I followed my muse and wrote other stuff. Meanwhile a book at 5.99 that was selling 50-100 copies a day and paying my rent for a brief but awesome period never got any follow-up and sales predictably died out. So that's why my pen names don't do anything. I have never given them any support and haven't bothered with them at all in years. Nothing sells forever without some kind of help to keep it visible. 200 sales one month can quickly become 2 sales by month six and no sales at all in a year.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Number 20 paid on Amazon. I hadn't peaked at 21 after all. Whew.

Bookbub really is fun, apparently


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Congratulations! 



> So... yeah. Quantity isn't always the answer. What you have up and what you do with it is far more important, in my experience, than how much you have. It's as possible to make very little on a lot of titles as it is on a few, just as it is as possible to make a lot on a few titles instead of many.


I agree. I made more when I had two books out, than I do now. What's the difference for me? I stopped marketing. Free was not a substitute, like I had hoped, but just one tool. Plus, genre hopping hurt. 
Time to kick it back up.


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

Congratulations! Snagged a copy and can't wait to read it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

I preordered the paperback, and it just came yesterday, so you might be seeing a new wave of reviews as the paperback people get theirs. Man, that was slow getting to me. Not sure if reviews help ratings or it's just sales.


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

Lisa Grace said:


> I agree. I made more when I had two books out, than I do now. What's the difference for me? I stopped marketing. Free was not a substitute, like I had hoped, but just one tool. Plus, genre hopping hurt.
> Time to kick it back up.


+1


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

CONGRATS!!!! That is awesome.


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## DaniO (Oct 22, 2012)

Congratulations, Annie. 
I just got my copy from the UK store


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I am maybe 500-800 sales off from hitting the USAT list, if my calculations and the data I've gathered from people who hit the lists recently are correct. I might be able to shove over the finish line by Sunday night. Fingers crossed for me!? I'm shamelessly using kittens to advertise the sale, too  https://www.facebook.com/101511573251896/photos/a.208272635909122.47891.101511573251896/878255005577545/?type=1&fref=nf


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

That kitty is a good salesman! Got my copy. Really enjoyed the first book, so it wasn't a hard sale.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2015)

Just downloaded it on BOTH my amazon accounts because I would love to be the two downloads that put you over to make the list. Either way, you rock the house and I'm hoping for a great update come Sunday!


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## 25803 (Oct 24, 2010)

Just snagged my copy and shared on FB.

Thank you, Annie! I sincerely hope you achieve the USA Today list!!!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks, guys. Glad to see kitten power working, haha.  I'm maybe 500 sales short (if what people reported hitting list last week was like, anyway), with two days to go. Crossing toes and fingers now. Gonna be close.


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

Good luck, Annie!! I'm crossing every crossable part of my body for you.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Just grabbed it, really rooting for you to make it Annie.


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## LittleFox (Jan 3, 2015)

First of all, thanks for sharing all of the information, it's really given me a push, and a bit of hope. 

Secondly, good luck! I shared on my social media and highly recommended as I enjoyed reading them.


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## Howietzer (Apr 18, 2012)

Wow, sorry I didn't see this before... Bravo Annie!!!


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Congrats Annie. And thank you for sticking up for noobs who fall for these things. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gone Girl (Mar 7, 2015)

We miss you, Harvey Chute.


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## bohemianedu (Jul 24, 2014)

Congratulations, Annie. I've visited your blog and find it really helpful. I can tell you're on your grind! Seriously, congrats!!!!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks guys   By my rough calculations, I need 150-200 sales in the next 24 hours to have a real shot, which seems maybe possible, so... yeah. Stressing out, haha.


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Bought it and shared it.


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

Jessie Jasen said:


> Bought it and shared it.


Me too, but in the UK store, hope it helps...


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Liz French said:


> Me too, but in the UK store, hope it helps...


Won't count toward the USAT list, but thank you! I <3 UK readers too


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## Escapee (Jan 31, 2014)

Damn you, Annie B! I bought and read your trilogy and now I have to read the rest of the series when I'm supposed to be working on my next book!!! (by the way, hurry up and publish book 6 will ya  )


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I hit the USAT list, btw. Thanks to everyone for their help!  #109.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Congratulations!


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## Janeal Falor (Oct 25, 2014)

Congrats on hitting the list! That's awesome!


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

Congratulations!!!


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

Well done, Annie!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Annie B said:


> I hit the USAT list, btw. Thanks to everyone for their help! #109.


Ooooh, congratulations!!! Fantastic!!!


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Never doubted it! Huge congrats!


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

Wooo, congratulations!


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## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah girl! Congrats!


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

The power of the kitten. Congrats!


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2015)

Yes!!!! Such awesome news.


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## Marina Finlayson (May 2, 2014)

Thought you must have made it when I saw the Bestseller tag on your box set on Amazon. Congratulations!


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## Lady Q (Jun 27, 2015)

Awesome! Congrats.


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## Shayne Parkinson (Mar 19, 2010)

Congratulations, Annie!


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

\o/


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Go Grumpy Cat, go!  

You're ahead of Amy Poehler and Gillian Flynn.


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## Northern pen (Mar 3, 2015)

Cat power for the win.

Congrats!


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Amazing, well done Annie!


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## Lunachick (Jan 2, 2015)

Well done Annie 🎇


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## Ros_Jackson (Jan 11, 2014)

ConCatulations!


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Congrats! You are so inspiring!


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## missielady (Aug 26, 2015)

I hadn't clicked on this card before. What an inspiration. Contratulations!


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## Clementine (Jun 12, 2015)

Awesome news. Congratulations! It's clear that you've worked hard for it.


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

That is is awesome!! Congrats. 
Your posts are so inspiring. Thank you for that.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Made of awesome. So totally.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm coming late to this thread, but wow am I glad I found it. Thanks for sharing all this awesome info, Annie, and congratulations on all your success!


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Annie B said:


> Read the genre you want to write in. Know what people who read that genre love and want. Know who you are writing for before you start writing. I made a list of everything I love to read about, then looked at what genre fit most of it. Then I picked that genre (urban fantasy) and reverse-outlined a bunch of bestselling and well-selling books in the genre (I read a ton of UF so I already knew a lot of the tropes etc) and looked at how each book and each longer series was structured. I then took my list and crammed pretty much all of it into the series, knowing I was aiming these books at a market best defined as "people who love books like Dresden Files and are giant nerds and gamers"...
> 
> Not saying you can't have success other ways, but in my experience, if you can't clearly and easily define the kind of reader you are writing for, it's going to be a very tough road to sales and money. There is a reason that when querying editors and agents, you are supposed to come up with an "elevator pitch"... I keep that in mind still when writing now even though I don't query anymore, and I make sure that whatever I'm writing has a pitch that I can explain in a line or two to anyone. I wouldn't undertake writing a book without having the concept and target audience nailed down like that first, personally.


I just saw this thread, so first, yowza! Congrats and thanks for sharing and contrasting the two methods in such an eye-popping manner!

I really like what you said here (quote above). I know a lot of writers say that they avoid reading in the genre they write because they don't want to be influenced or to subconsciously start copying, but I think it's very important to keep a pulse in your genre. It's like Target and Wal-Mart not visiting each others stores to see what's going on. What's working, what isn't.

I'm lucky, I like reading the genre I write in any way, so I never considered not reading it once I published.


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## Covervault (Mark) (Sep 29, 2015)

Happy and grateful for you Annie.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Bumping for reasons.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Wow, Annie. That is very inspiring! Congrats on the success!

May I ask, is your marketing / rebranding plan posted somewhere?


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## Jo Clendening (Apr 9, 2011)

So wonderful! I love seeing how hard work, excellent writing, great covers and persistence pays off. I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in wondering how things went in the last year too?


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Hah! I'm a contributing part of the money earned from those new covers. I love Annie Bellet! And yep, I can say with honesty that I wouldn't have looked twice at the original covers that hid very awesome stories. Old thread but the message still stands - need covers to reflect the genre and catch the eye if you want to sell.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

SA_Soule said:


> Wow, Annie. That is very inspiring! Congrats on the success!
> 
> May I ask, is your DWS/KKR plan posted somewhere?


You could go read Dean's blog I guess. But I don't know why you would want a plan that makes you pennies... It's a terrible plan.

What I think you were asking is for my post-KKR/DWS plan, the one that has made me over 800k in the last 3 years and involves doing pretty much the opposite of everything they say? That plan is pretty much outlined by me in this thread if you read the first few pages. Hope that helps.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Annie B said:


> What I think you were asking is for my post-KKR/DWS plan, the one that has made me over 800k in the last 3 years and involves doing pretty much the opposite of everything they say? That plan is pretty much outlined by me in this thread if you read the first few pages. Hope that helps.


Sorry for the confusion. And that is what I meant, so thank you, Annie.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Annie B said:


> What I think you were asking is for my post-KKR/DWS plan, the one that has made me over 800k in the last 3 years and involves doing pretty much the opposite of everything they say? That plan is pretty much outlined by me in this thread if you read the first few pages. Hope that helps.


Annie, you need to write a "how to" guide next!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

SA_Soule said:


> Annie, you need to write a "how to" guide next!


Nope. I am not a guru. Any information I could put into a how-to guide is stuff you can get for free or cheap from smarter people than I am. I have zero interest in selling advice to other writers 

If you want good information, here are some of my favorite resources (if it will help  )
amazon.com/Step-Self-Publishing-BOOT-CAMP-Launching-ebook/dp/B06ZZM1PY5/
amazon.com/Steps-Self-Publishing-LOVE-MONEY-Self-Published-ebook/dp/B00XIQ1Z7A/
amazon.com/2k-10k-Writing-Faster-Better-ebook/dp/B009NKXAWS/
amazon.com/Take-Off-Your-Pants-Outline-ebook/dp/B00UKC0GHA/

For free: http://russellblake.com/ (lots of blog posts with great tips from a proven seller)
http://susankayequinn.com/for-authors (most of her stuff in the ebooks can be found here with some hunting around)
http://www.robertjcrane.com/p/indie-author-advice.html

That should be enough to get anyone started...


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Annie B said:


> Nope. I am not a guru. Any information I could put into a how-to guide is stuff you can get for free or cheap from smarter people than I am. I have zero interest in selling advice to other writers  That should be enough to get anyone started...


Thanks for the links. (I was only partially serious.)

And I only meant because you offer a ton of insightful, inspiring, and thoughtful advice in your posts to other writers on kboards. Success stories like yours are what gives a lot of hope and encouragement to struggling self-publishers. Plus, the "how-to" could be free...  (_I am only teasing, Annie_)

Oh! And i bought a few of your books and can't wait to read them. Love your UF covers!


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

SA_Soule said:


> Plus, the "how-to" could be free...


But Annie's time isn't free. Especially if people expect her to write, edit, format and market a "how to" book - all for free.

There's also a lot of people who think there is some secret magic formula to selling well and if they simply knock together parts A, B and C they will have "success". Those people then tend to retaliate if such "how to" books don't explicitly spoon feed them said magic formula and (rather understandably) busy authors don't want to deal with that fall out.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Tilly said:


> But Annie's time isn't free. Especially if people expect her to write, edit, format and market a "how to" book - all for free. There's also a lot of people who think there is some secret magic formula to selling well and if they simply knock together parts A, B and C they will have "success". Those people then tend to retaliate if such "how to" books don't explicitly spoon feed them said magic formula and (rather understandably) busy authors don't want to deal with that fall out.


I was only teasing about the free part and meant no disrespect.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Puddleduck said:


> Annie - I just finished reading the first book in your series, and I had a couple questions I was wondering if you could answer, related to your approach with this series.
> 
> 1. What word count do you aim for with each book?
> 2. How long does it take you to write one of these?
> ...


I was wondering the same things after reading a few of the books in the series, Annie. _Really enjoyed them, too!_

Was there a reason that you decided to have such short books (are they considered novellas?)?

Is your UF series more like a serial? And if it is, do you mention that anywhere?

~ ~ ~

I have a UF (YA) serial, but each book does have some plot resolution and each one is about 75k words. I do include that the books are a serial and published in sequential installments at the bottom of my blurb in an attempt to avoid negative reviews.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

They aren't a serial. Each book is written with more or less a contained story (except books 5, 6, 7 which are the boss fight portion of the bigger story). It's a series.  I wrote them short because I came from short story writing and I like the 30k-50k length a lot. I was also basically on bed rest while writing books 1 and 2 after nearly dying, so I didn't exactly have a ton of spare energy.  I don't consider them novellas because after the first two they are all more than long enough for the SFWA definition of a novel (over 40k) and also Bridges of Madison County was 32k words and everyone calls that a novel, so that's my bar for being a novel   Others might disagree, but I don't care so save it 

They've gotten longer as the series goes on but I'll probably keep the last two down to around 50k like book 8 was because that's the upper length for them. If I had to do it over again (and wasn't sick) I'd have gone for 70k instead from the start because I think that length has more potential in terms of staying power and promotion opportunities.  I won't be writing a book under 60k again for that reason going forward.

People have argued for dozens of threads here what the difference between a serial and a series is, so I won't rehash that. For me, a serial means a single story/plot line broken up into multiple, usually quite short, installments.  A series is novel-length works that might follow a main over-arching plot but also have other plots within each book. That doesn't mean the books can't have cliffhangers etc. A Song of Ice and Fire is a series. If it were published chapter by chapter, it could be argued it were a serial, but it ain't. We don't see a lot of true serials anymore because publishing a work in a broken-up way like that isn't popular anymore. (amazon even tried to make it work with Kindle Serials but dropped that like the dud it was very quickly).  So when in doubt, if you have novel-length work, it's probably a series, not a serial.

My writing times are all over the place because of illness and mental health issues, so I'm not a good example of that. At the moment I'm releasing one or two books a year. I don't recommend this.  I releases the first two books 3 weeks apart, and that helped me gain momentum. I wish I hadn't had to slow down after book 4, but life and health weren't on my side. I do feel like it's a testament to my writing skill though that the series is still making me six figures a year despite that slowness and I feel like it shows that quality really does matter. The beautiful covers don't hurt, either.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

The beautiful covers certainly catch the eye, but it's the geek references and kick butt action that keep me reading them. As a gamer chick, I appreciate that.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Annie B said:


> They aren't a serial. Each book is written with more or less a contained story (except books 5, 6, 7 which are the boss fight portion of the bigger story). It's a series. I wrote them short because I came from short story writing and I like the 30k-50k length a lot. I was also basically on bed rest while writing books 1 and 2 after nearly dying, so I didn't exactly have a ton of spare energy. I don't consider them novellas because after the first two they are all more than long enough for the SFWA definition of a novel (over 40k) and also Bridges of Madison County was 32k words and everyone calls that a novel, so that's my bar for being a novel


Thank you for taking the time to explain. I hadn't read all the books in the series yet, and they just seemed very short to me personally compared to the other UF novels that I've read. (BTW, I sent you a DM)


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## Whatever Writer (Jun 20, 2017)

I appreciate everything that was written throughout this post  As someone struggling and learning the hard way, it's great to see an underdog story!


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Congrats! Keep rocking that thing, Annie


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