# Publishing short romance ebooks on Amazon



## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

Hi everyone! I'm a new member but a long time writer. I have never published anything before, unless you count having 2 poems published in poetry books. But poetry doesn't make money, and takes a lot longer to produce than fiction or non-fiction. I only recently decided I want to get paid for my writing. And I realized my favorite (and easiest) thing to write is romance. Actually what I have written I think would qualify more as erotica. I have about 20 stories, but they are pretty short, 3000 words on average. I could make them longer if that's what it takes, though.

So my question is, how likely is it that I could rework these 20 stories (all standalones) and publish them on Amazon and make about $1000 a month? I don't even need more than that, really. I just bought an ebook on how to do this and the author said it's easily possible to make $2000 a month. I don't even need that much, so I thought maybe by publishing what I already have (after making them longer if necessary), that would be a good start. Of course I would continue writing more, but I need the income to start coming in ASAP. 

I learned that the romance/erotica genre is the biggest selling genre, so I got hopeful I could make 1G a month doing this. Then I read something online saying Amazon changed something about how romance ebooks show up under searches or something along those lines, and now most people only earn about $50 a month. That bummed me out. So I thought I would ask in a forum to get multiple opinions.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

I think Amazon has a 5,000 word minimum length for shorts, so they would either need to be longer or bundled together.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

5k words works best for erotica.

Paranormal romance seems to do best starting at 15k words. I'm not sure about other kinds of romance, but I suspect you're going to have to consider writing 30-45k novella's in order to make a decent income off romance. 

3k is just too short, unless you bundle them.

I'd also advise staying out of KU if you're doing doing short stories. You'll get paid in peanuts. So consider going wide; B&N, iBooks, Kobo, etc. This is because KU 2.v pays per page, not 10% reach like before. So a 5k story comes out to about 20 pages, but you'll get paid only like $0.10 ....


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

AliceWE said:


> I think Amazon has a 5,000 word minimum length for shorts, so they would either need to be longer or bundled together.


There is no wordcount minimum at Amazon. I have published standalone shorts under 5000 words without any problem, though personally I wouldn't go under 2500 words.


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## Kendall York (Jul 31, 2015)

Thanks for all this advice, everyone. I just published three "new adult" romance shorts on KU and have been wondering if it was the right move.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

CoraBuhlert said:


> There is no wordcount minimum at Amazon. I have published standalone shorts under 5000 words without any problem, though personally I wouldn't go under 2500 words.


Thank you for that, someone told me it was 5k. I have learned something today


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## lyndabelle (Feb 26, 2015)

CoraBuhlert said:


> There is no wordcount minimum at Amazon. I have published standalone shorts under 5000 words without any problem, though personally I wouldn't go under 2500 words.


I started out with 3500 word shorts and have been getting much longer with my stories, avg. 5k-7k now. I noticed the complaints about the stories being too short were more prevalent with the 3500 stories, and have tapered off writing them. I've been naturally writing longer stories as I keep going through the months, having started all of this back in February. It works better to have longer stories in KU2 (current Kindle Unlimited program).

I found starting out, it did help to have some stories in KU, and I did place a series wide to get some feelers out on how the royalties would pan out. I'm finding that just writing MORE stories, and keeping the flow going, is working the best. I try to put out a story every 2-3 weeks. I've got two erotic shorts that I'm working on as well as a Time Travel Romance novel and other ventures. Check out cover designers on the board, and see if you can get an editor and beta reader too. That REALLY helps.

Check out these threads too: 
HOW ARE THE EROTICA WRITERS DOING?
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,209685.0.html

THe 7 Day Erotica Challenge
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196306.0.html


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Navigator said:


> 5k words works best for erotica.
> 
> Paranormal romance seems to do best starting at 15k words. I'm not sure about other kinds of romance, but I suspect you're going to have to consider writing 30-45k novella's in order to make a decent income off romance.
> 
> ...


I've done 3500 before, but that's as low as I've ever gone and 5k is much better.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

I figured they were too short, I was already planning on writing longer ones anyway. I was mostly curious if my $1000/mo expectations were off, within a few months of publishing 20 or more of them. I am most of the way through this book and it sounds like it's very possible, so I'm hopeful!

Thanks for your replies and advice, everyone!


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Are you writing erotica or romance? They are two different genres with different readers.

That short short length is ok for erotica, I'm still seeing some short erotica under 5k on amazon and smashwords.

For romance, in my opinion that is far too short. You will get 1 star reviews complaining about the book being too short. 20-25K novellas are popular in romance. Novels (especially part of a series) are even more popular. You can write shorter novels around 50k. I love reading shorter novels that I can read in one to two days.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

No one can guarantee that you'll make $1000 a month. You could make just enough to pay one bill every month or enough to quit your job. 

If you want to give yourself the best chance, read bestsellers in your genre (short erotica, novella length romances or novel length romance novels) and write something similar. Write a lot and publish a lot. You could break out with one book or one series. You could also make a steady income every month and work towards your financial goal gradually. 

If you want to write short erotica, read the threads on here about writing short erotica. If you are a new author you might find that you have to write more books to make money in the short erotica market. A few authors have gone wide. Quite a few erotica authors are writing novellas or novels now, some have moved over to writing romance. 

Lurking on reddit I see that the erotica authors still doing ok have got large catalogs already and write fast.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

mica said:


> Are you writing erotica or romance? They are two different genres with different readers.
> 
> That short short length is ok for erotica, I'm still seeing some short erotica under 5k on amazon and smashwords.
> 
> For romance, in my opinion that is far too short. You will get 1 star reviews complaining about the book being too short. 20-25K novellas are popular in romance. Novels (especially part of a series) are even more popular. You can write shorter novels around 50k. I love reading shorter novels that I can read in one to two days.


Well it's both, really. I'd say 75% is leading up to sex and 25% is sex. It gets pretty erotic but honestly I would prefer to tone that part down. I read that Amazon might think it's too smutty and put you in the Adult dungeon and i'm sure you all know what that is, lol I just learned about it tonight. I do not want my books to go there. I just wrote them this way originally because they were aimed at a group of online friends, we all wrote them and shared them with each other, and they wanted raunchy stuff, lol I will lean towards straight up romance in my next ones though.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> Well it's both, really. I'd say 75% is leading up to sex and 25% is sex. It gets pretty erotic but honestly I would prefer to tone that part down. I read that Amazon might think it's too smutty and put you in the Adult dungeon and i'm sure you all know what that is, lol I just learned about it tonight. I do not want my books to go there. I just wrote them this way originally because they were aimed at a group of online friends, we all wrote them and shared them with each other, and they wanted raunchy stuff, lol I will lean towards straight up romance in my next ones though.


Ok but there is a difference between erotica and romance.

Are you writing erom (erotic-romance) or contemporary or na romance?

Are you writing erotica shorts?

Erotica gets put in the adult dungeon for all sorts of reasons. Read the threads Lyndabelle posted above, you will learn more about what will get you thrown in the dungeon. Read Selena kitts blog.

In my opinion you need to do some research to know a little more about your genre and a bit about self-publishing.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

mica said:


> Ok but there is a difference between erotica and romance.
> 
> Are you writing erom (erotic-romance) or contemporary or na romance?
> 
> Are you writing erotica shorts?


Since I'm new to publishing I guess I can't label what I have, I just know it has romantic parts and erotic parts. I've never put it into a category before. I'll have to study what each genre actually means and what it includes to know what mine is specifically.



> Erotica gets put in the adult dungeon for all sorts of reasons. Read the threads Lyndabelle posted above, you will learn more about what will get you thrown in the dungeon. Read Selena kitts blog.
> 
> In my opinion you need to do some research to know a little more about your genre and a bit about self-publishing.


I did click on those links and read the first page, but they're both too long to read in their entirety. I read on another site though that it was mostly certain graphic words and too provocative covers. I want my stuff to be pretty mild, I am probably going to edit what I have and make it more rated R than X, lol


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> I did click on those links and read the first page, but they're both too long to read in their entirety.


Well, I'm afraid you're going to be reading a lot if you expect to sell your work. Might as well start now. You're going to be reading about the writing end, and the publishing end, and you're going to be reading the genre/genres you want to write and sell books in.

It's possible to make very good money writing erotica. Could you make $1000 a month? Maybe. If you write good books and hit the right kinks. If you publish frequently. You could make more than that. But you're going to have to work for it.

You can get pretty raunchy, but you have to know what's accepted so far as content, covers, titles and blurbs. The only way to do that is to study the market and read reputable blogs, such as Selena's, and forums for erotica writers. Do a search for Dirty Discourse. It's a paid membership blog (still $10 yearly, as far as I know), but there are many, many erotica and romance/erom writers there, many of them sell extremely well.

Just a reminder for this forum: we aren't allowed to link to any site with erotic content, including sales sites, , blogs or other forums, nor can we have pictures with such content, which means no links to your books in signatures. Read the forum rules!


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> Since I'm new to publishing I guess I can't label what I have, I just know it has romantic parts and erotic parts. I've never put it into a category before. I'll have to study what each genre actually means and what it includes to know what mine is specifically.
> 
> *I did click on those links and read the first page, but they're both too long to read in their entirety.* I read on another site though that it was mostly certain graphic words and too provocative covers. I want my stuff to be pretty mild, I am probably going to edit what I have and make it more rated R than X, lol





she-la-ti-da said:


> Well, I'm afraid you're going to be reading a lot if you expect to sell your work. Might as well start now. You're going to be reading about the writing end, and the publishing end, and you're going to be reading the genre/genres you want to write and sell books in.


^ ^
This is what I was going to say.

GaiaGoddess, I spent weeks researching my genres (contemporary and na romance) and I am not finished researching. If you want to make $1000 a month then you will need to do a little research and some experimenting. 
That means reading a long thread which is filled with erotica authors who might be able to give you a little advice that could save you getting dungeoned, being banned, writing books which just don't sell (I'm not saying all the answers are on here or on dirty discourse or reddit) but you might learn something that helps you.
Reading bestsellers in your genre (especially your niche/kink for erotica) can help you understand what is selling, you can get an idea of what covers work, what length and so on.....

Have you given your work to anyone else to read? You need to know where to place your story, if it's romance or erotica.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

I will continue to do research, I only started yesterday, really. I just wanted a general answer so I knew what was possible. That book helped me a lot, I finished that. I work 2 jobs right now which is why I want to focus what little free time I have on writing. If my stuff is too smutty for romance it would be easy to change after it's written. I just want to get them written ASAP because working 2 jobs I hate is affecting my health and I need to quit.

The only people who have read my work are the 20 or 30 women who were also writers, we all shared them with each other. Everyone came back for more and begged me to write new ones all the time, so I guess my stuff is pretty good, coming from readers!


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> Well it's both, really. I'd say 75% is leading up to sex and 25% is sex. It gets pretty erotic but honestly I would prefer to tone that part down. I read that Amazon might think it's too smutty and put you in the Adult dungeon and i'm sure you all know what that is, lol I just learned about it tonight. I do not want my books to go there. I just wrote them this way originally because they were aimed at a group of online friends, we all wrote them and shared them with each other, and they wanted raunchy stuff, lol I will lean towards straight up romance in my next ones though.


I have three erotica books in the dungeon and three out. None of them are bestsellers and I'm not quitting my job on them, but the dungeoned books (breeding kink) sell better than my non-dungeoned books as long as I periodically point people in their direction.


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## dianapersaud (Sep 26, 2013)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I will continue to do research, I only started yesterday, really. I just wanted a general answer so I knew what was possible. That book helped me a lot, I finished that. I work 2 jobs right now which is why I want to focus what little free time I have on writing. *If my stuff is too smutty for romance *it would be easy to change after it's written. I just want to get them written ASAP because working 2 jobs I hate is affecting my health and I need to quit.
> 
> The only people who have read my work are the 20 or 30 women who were also writers, we all shared them with each other. Everyone came back for more and begged me to write new ones all the time, so I guess my stuff is pretty good, coming from readers!


You REALLY need to do your research. Heat level doesn't make it erotica.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

Just what is the difference between erotica and steamy romance?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm not a short form reader. I'm having trouble envisioning a 3,000 word romance.


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## amy_wokz (Oct 11, 2014)

Kim Fox and Ruby Shae write 15-20k word eroms that sell well. If you can publish those types of books every 2-3 weeks, $1,000 per month is attainable. Your first attempts may wobble, but you'll soon get your balance. Covers and blurbs are important, too. Part of your research can include joining their mailing lists and asking them writing questions via e-mail. They are very open and helpful. Good luck and have fun!


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> Since I'm new to publishing I guess I can't label what I have, I just know it has romantic parts and erotic parts. I've never put it into a category before.


Romance can run the gauntlet from clean to explicit sex scenes. It's not how graphic the scenes are that determine if it's romance, erotica or even chick-lit. It's to do with the nature of the plot, tropes and journey of the characters.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

amy_wokz said:


> Kim Fox and Ruby Shae write 15-20k word eroms that sell well. If you can publish those types of books every 2-3 weeks, $1,000 per month is attainable. Your first attempts may wobble, but you'll soon get your balance. Covers and blurbs are important, too. Part of your research can include joining their mailing lists and asking them writing questions via e-mail. They are very open and helpful. Good luck and have fun!


I just checked out both of those authors and literally ALL they write about is men who shapeshift into bears!? What is that, lol I write normal human stories, lol But honestly their writing didn't seem all that special, of course I couldn't see any of the erotic parts, just the first chapter, but I think I write better than that. So yeah, I can't write about women having sex with bears, if that's what it takes to make a living at this.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I just checked out both of those authors and literally ALL they write about is men who shapeshift into bears!? What is that, lol I write normal human stories, lol But honestly their writing didn't seem all that special, of course I couldn't see any of the erotic parts, just the first chapter, but I think I write better than that. So yeah, I can't write about women having sex with bears, if that's what it takes to make a living at this.


*golf clap* Good job, you just insulted the reading habits of every shifter erotica READER who wanders into this board. Good thing you haven't announced your pen name yet so they won't know who to avoid as "willing to take money while laughing at them."


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Hero_Huggins said:


> Just what is the difference between erotica and steamy romance?


Erotica is focused on the sexual journey of the characters. There may be some romantic elements, but the main thing is the sex.

Steamy romance, like all romance, is focused on the romantic journey of the couple. The main goal is the falling in love, with a happily ever after or happy for now ending. There are some things to avoid in romance, but the level of sex is not one of them (well, I guess "inspirational" or "clean" or "sweet" romances would be different  ).

OP, I can understand wanting to make money so you can quit a job you hate. Pretty much everyone can agree with that. But, writing isn't an easy, slap-something-up and make easy cash method. It takes work to write what people will pay for. Yes, even erotica and romance.

In fact, I'd say it's pretty hard to do well in these genres, unless you put in the work, practice and learn all you can. It's going to take time. How much depends on you and how fast you can pick up the information you need. If you don't have a lot of time, I'd focus on the Dirty Discourse forum. Everything you really need to know, you'll find there. There are forums for erotica and romance, so it's in one place, there are folks who are making the bucks -- and those who aren't, but are trying -- so you'll get all sides of the market.

If you aren't in KU, and can't afford to buy a lot of books to study, look at the top 100 free lists for erotica and romance. Lots of selling authors have freebies. Download the books with plots similar to what you want to write that are high on those lists, and read. Study them: the writing, the covers, the blurbs, the titles. You can learn a lot by reading what's selling well. Don't do just one day, but spend some time watching the lists to see what stays on top, what takes it's place, what gets high but doesn't last, and so on.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I just checked out both of those authors and literally ALL they write about is men who shapeshift into bears!? What is that, lol I write normal human stories, lol But honestly their writing didn't seem all that special, of course I couldn't see any of the erotic parts, just the first chapter, but I think I write better than that. So yeah, I can't write about women having sex with bears, if that's what it takes to make a living at this.


Research the genres you plan to write in. Read books in that genre until you're blue in the face. This cannot be stressed enough. You need to get a feel for the a genre before attempting to write in it.


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## Rachel E. Rice (Jan 4, 2014)

It took four months of writing loads of shorts each week to reach four figures. However that was in KU1. When I was poised to make more money after writing over sixty 5-6 thousand words of short erotica and erom, KU2 happened, and I lost 70 percent of my income on Amazon. 
I began writing erotica, and switched to erom, when I discovered a subgenre which is conducive to my voice and style. I had very few readers then and not many more now because I don't advertise and I made my own covers, which could be one reason I was slow to pick up readers.
Nevertheless, I have so many short reads(80-90) I began putting them in box sets and enrolling them at other vendors. "Nothing is wasted." 

Lessons learned: It takes a large readership to make any kind of money in KU2 whether you write short or long.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

Dragovian said:


> *golf clap* Good job, you just insulted the reading habits of every shifter erotica READER who wanders into this board. Good thing you haven't announced your pen name yet so they won't know who to avoid as "willing to take money while laughing at them."


I'm not laughing at them as in making fun of them, I'm mostly shocked and confused. I just don't get how 2 of the biggest selling authors write about something I didn't know existed. And is there actually a fetish out there where women really want to have sex with bears for real? I guess I just don't understand the concept. But more power to them if there is a market for that. I just know I can't write that. And I'm sure there is a market out there for women who want to read what I write, I'm not worried about not getting readers. Every woman I know likes man/woman sex.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

she-la-ti-da said:


> Erotica is focused on the sexual journey of the characters. There may be some romantic elements, but the main thing is the sex.
> 
> Steamy romance, like all romance, is focused on the romantic journey of the couple. The main goal is the falling in love, with a happily ever after or happy for now ending. There are some things to avoid in romance, but the level of sex is not one of them (well, I guess "inspirational" or "clean" or "sweet" romances would be different  ).
> 
> ...


Thanks for all that information! It's good to know there are free ebooks out there, the first chapter that is free doesn't give a good enough indication of everything you want to know.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I'm not laughing at them as in making fun of them, I'm mostly shocked and confused. I just don't get how 2 of the biggest selling authors write about something I didn't know existed. And is there actually a fetish out there where women really want to have sex with bears for real? I guess I just don't understand the concept. But more power to them if there is a market for that. I just know I can't write that. And I'm sure there is a market out there for women who want to read what I write, I'm not worried about not getting readers. Every woman I know likes man/woman sex.


Shifter romance (bears and wolves) has nothing to do with having sex with animals (that's bestiality and it's usually sex with horses or dogs), it's more about being with a strong alpha man that will love and protect you. These women become their longterm mates.

I should have mentioned that the man shifts from his animal form when he is coupling with the woman.

These are very popular fantasy stories much like vampires were very popular a couple years ago.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

OP, right now, the answer to your question in no. You do not know enough about romance or erotica and you are not showing a willingness to do the work and research it takes to build a backlist. Erotica is very competitive and requires a lot of research and understanding of what readers want. Same for romance (though it if likely to fare better with KU 2 than erotica is).


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## Callaghan (May 5, 2014)

I think you'll find that most people that have reached their monthly income goals have had to put in a lot of research time before they were successful. I read message boards and did my research for 2 months before publishing and still didn't have a homerun in erotic romance for months.

If you plan on going exclusive with Amazon you need to understand the Kindle Unlimited program forwards and backwards and how the numbers play out.

Let's put sales of books aside and look at KU borrows and how many pages would have to read for you to make $1000 per month. 
(Disclaimer: I was generous with my rounding to create easier to read numbers. Also, math may be wonky. It's not my strong suit.)

20 books - averaging 3000 words.
Going by a 200 words per page, you would get a KENPC of 15 pages. Let's be generous and round that up to 20.
Last month we were paid per page 0.005779.
A 20 page book would earn you about 12cents.
You would need approx 173,000 pages read to earn $1000.
8650 people would need to borrow your books in 1 month and read them thru completely to earn $1000.
Let's say you bundled all the books. 60,000 words - you were lucky and got 300 KENPC. You would need 575 people to borrow your book and read it through completely to earn $1000.

A good place to check out real numbers that people new to publishing their erotica are earning is the Subreddit: EroticAuthors on reddit.com. 
In fact, I'm looking at a new post this week of someone who has published 90 titles (lots more details in the post) and earned approx $350 (US) on his catalog and most of that came from actual sales.

Run your own numbers and see what it really takes to earn $1000 a month and decide if you are willing to put as much work into it as it will require.


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## dirtiestdevil (Aug 20, 2014)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I'm not laughing at them as in making fun of them, I'm mostly shocked and confused. I just don't get how 2 of the biggest selling authors write about something I didn't know existed. And is there actually a fetish out there where women really want to have sex with bears for real? I guess I just don't understand the concept. But more power to them if there is a market for that. I just know I can't write that. And I'm sure there is a market out there for women who want to read what I write, I'm not worried about not getting readers. Every woman I know likes man/woman sex.


Sounds like you're all set! Post up your success thread in a week or so and let all your fellow kboarders know how you attained your goals! 

We here have much to learn! And are always eager for new info.


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

GaiaGoddess, welcome to kboards. I've spent the past week investigating this very question, and unfortunately, the answer to your question is no. You probably can't make $1000 a month writing erotic romance short stories about vanilla heterosexual couples.

If you want to make money writing erotic short stories, then they need to be erotica, and they need to be certain kinks. If bear shifters sound strange to you, then you probably aren't ready for the kinks that make money in erotica shorts. I'm celebrating my one-year anniversary as a published author of erotic romance today, and I can't handle those kinks. They make me queasy, and I write kink. Just not _those _kinks.

It sounds like you should be looking at the erotic romance market, which means novellas rather than short stories, or possibly serials (5,000-10,000 word installments of a continuing story or linked stories). But you need to understand what sells, and right now, what's selling is bear shifters, billionaires, and stepbrothers. If you want to make $1000 a month on erotic romance novellas, then be prepared to write alpha males, in whatever incarnation is currently popular. (Once you develop a loyal fan base, then you won't need to be so market-driven.)

You don't need to tone down your content. Please don't change what's inside the book to R-rated. If you want to make money in romance novellas, then you probably need to write fully realized sex scenes, and it sounds like that's already what you're writing. Avoid nudity and sexual positions on the covers, and avoid the words in your blurb that will likely get you dungeoned, and you should be fine. Put your books under Romance, not under Fiction > Erotica on Amazon. Learn about using keywords to get you into the categories you want.

The fact that other women tell you that your books are good and ask for more doesn't mean that you can make money selling them in the very competitive market that is the Kindle store. Seriously. Being a good writer is SO MUCH LESS IMPORTANT than being a good storyteller. (Have you read _Fifty Shades of Grey_? If the answer is no, drop everything and go do that. Don't tell me you can't because the prose is so awful. People in your target market DON'T CARE.)

A year from now, you could easily be making $1000 a month on erotic romance novellas (no guarantees, though). But you will have to work your tail off. Not only writing a ton of books, but learning about the market and the craft, and marketing the heck out of your books. If you're already working two jobs, this will be a third full-time job on top of that. This is not something you do in your spare time if you want to make a steady good income from it. You are starting a small business. Be prepared to work all the time, especially at first. Be prepared to have no social life. Be prepared for exhaustion and too little sleep, at least until you know what you're doing and can settle into a routine.

You have to be hungry. You have to want this more than you've ever wanted everything, or you won't make it. THIS IS NOT A GET-RICH QUICK SCHEME. It's a lot to learn, for very little reward in the beginning. The early months (sometimes years) are apprenticeships until you become a master crafter.

Professionals don't look at the work of more successful authors in their field and say, "I could write better than that." Professionals recognize that the successful author understands something that they don't, and they read the book to figure out what that is. Those authors are giving the audience what they want. They're not wasting their time on highly nuanced prose if it doesn't pay for them to do that. It doesn't matter how good a writer you are. Writing genre fiction means writing for the market, not your college English professor.

I hope I haven't scared you off. This gig can be very rewarding if you lay the groundwork first. If you want to write romance, then I recommend you join the Romance Writers of America and go to the local chapter meetings. You will learn so much, and it's a very supportive community, just as kboards is.


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## Northern pen (Mar 3, 2015)

want to make money ? write a novel.

Seriously, the numbers favor longer stories by far.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Robyn Wideman said:


> want to make money ? write a novel.
> 
> Seriously, the numbers favor longer stories by far.


Yes I agree but the OP was talking about writing short erotica or romance and some writers prefer writing short books.

GaiaGoddess, If you look at the amazon bestsellers list and the most popular amazon author ranks for erotica, you'll find quite a lot of novella length or novel length erotica now. 
If you are writing erotica then check out reddit where there are lots of erotica authors discussing these issues. It has already been said, the authors making 4 and 5 figures a month writing short erotica are the ones who started months/years ago and have multiple books and box sets.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

So in a nutshell, the author of that book was lying? lol She said it took 3 months to earn $2000. I suppose it's always possible. But I won't expect it. 

As for my writing, I don't want to change my style, I don't want to write like a high schooler, I am proud of the way I write. I have written poetry all my life and that comes out in my short stories. If that is like being overqualified for the job, I don't care, I'm not going to change to make money. I would rather write what naturally flows through me. I mean what's the point of being an artist if you're just gonna follow a formula everyone else follows? I guess if I don't make money from this, so be it.


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## GaiaGoddess (Aug 31, 2015)

Crystal_ said:


> OP, right now, the answer to your question in no. You do not know enough about romance or erotica and you are not showing a willingness to do the work and research it takes to build a backlist. Erotica is very competitive and requires a lot of research and understanding of what readers want. Same for romance (though it if likely to fare better with KU 2 than erotica is).


I may not know enough about what's selling, but now i'm realizing that's not what is important to me anymore. I would rather make $2.00 a month with my own style than $2000 with someone else's. And it isn't that i'm not willing to do research, I spent my whole night off doing research, but I work 14 hours most days. There literally isn't enough time. I am not going to skip sleep for this, nothing is worth slowly killing yourself over.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I may not know enough about what's selling, but now i'm realizing that's not what is important to me anymore. I would rather make $2.00 a month with my own style than $2000 with someone else's. And it isn't that i'm not willing to do research, I spent my whole night off doing research, but I work 14 hours most days. There literally isn't enough time. I am not going to skip sleep for this, nothing is worth slowly killing yourself over.





 GaiaGoddess said:


> So in a nutshell, the author of that book was lying? lol She said it took 3 months to earn $2000.


GaiaGoddess, You have not been clear about what you are writing so it's difficult to tell you what threads or books to read, it's difficult to give you specific advice. 
There are other forums that would be helpful for erotica authors. 
There are books that you could read to understand more about self-publishing.

There are so many different kinks/niches within erotica that you can choose to write but you need to learn a bit about those kinks. That's easy to do, ask the authors writing those kinks. Read those kinks (download some of the bestsellers).

There are very successful authors on here writing erotica and romance, some share their success stories and give really good advice.

If you want people on here to advice you, help you, guide you then please be more clear about what you are writing. *Could you give a brief outline of your work. *If you want to make good money from writing then you should be a little more clear about what you are writing (erotica or romance), what your goals are and you could do with a plan.

It's not about writing some short erotic stories and throwing them up on amazon and watching the dollars role in. That book you read about making $2000 within 3 months, when did that author write this book, a year ago? a few months ago? In KU1? It has been explained already that things have changed in the past few weeks and KU2 is quite different from KU1.

That's why I said you need to learn a bit about what is going on in self-publishing today because it seems that you know very little about what is going on right now.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

GaiaGoddess said:


> * I work 14 hours most days.* There literally isn't enough time. I am not going to skip sleep for this, nothing is worth slowly killing yourself over.


I wanted to say, i understand that you have to work long hours but so do other authors. Some authors are juggling children, jobs and busy lives but if you want to write and make some money out of it, you need to commit some time to this. It might take a bit longer.

Look at JK Rowlings personal story, she had a young daughter, very little money, on benefits and took a few months to write the first Harry Potter book.

From your posts it seems like you are looking for a quick way to make cash writing erotica or romance. This is not a get rich quick scheme.

There are ways to make this easier for yourself. Such as cutting out things that suck up your time (like watching TV). i used to spend my lunch hour at work surfing the internet to find out more about self-publishing and I only watched a couple TV shows a week. I would read a book on the way to and from work too. I worked a few extra shifts to save for book covers.

I saw this as a future career/business and I wanted it bad and so I did whatever I had to do to research, write and publish.


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## countwordsmith (Aug 13, 2015)

I don't believe you have to change your "style" of writing, and you don't have to read Fifty Shades to make money with erotic romance, maybe even erotica. However, you do need to understand your market far better than you do. You don't have to dumb down your writing, provided you don't write as if it's a research paper.

Yes, you can make $1000 in three months, maybe even less time. However, you will probably only do it if you again understand what the readers want, and if you write longer pieces.

The fact that you had never heard of shifter romance (bears, etc.) says you don't know what the readers are buying. The fact that you thought people were writing that women were having sex with animals says you don't know. Let me make it plain. Bear Shifter romance is simply a man and a woman falling in love and having sex in the story. The difference is, he can ALSO shape shift into a bear. He is ALSO very alpha in attitude. His shifting usually happens during a fight with an enemy or whatever, not in the bedroom. Shifter romance is one of the hottest if not the hottest in erotic romance right now.

Aside from shifters, you can do contemporary, but as has been said, erotica tends to lean toward kink because everyone has seen regular sex a million times, and it's old. That's why they figure out these different additions to liven up same old sex.


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

To be perfectly honest, gaiagoddess, it doesn't sound like you're ready to publish in erotica or erom right now.

There is money to be made in erotica and erotic romance. You _have_ to know the market. You _have_ to know the ins and outs of publishing in short erotic fiction. You _have_ to know about the different kinks and niches, which sell well and which don't, how to watch the best seller lists, what on the covers sells or even can get you dungeoned. You _have_ to know what the face of the competition looks like, you _have_ to know how to leverage what you're writing. You _have_ to know when and if you should change/drop pen names. 
You _have_ to be able to write quickly to build up your catalog.

Most of all you _have_ to have patience and to spot the signs on when you need to shift directions. The days of rapid moneymaking are winding down, especially if you don't know what you're doing. It can be done but you _have_ to know what you're doing.

That means research. Reading and studying to stay on top of this rapidly shifting genre.

Many fabulous writers have gone before you and paved the way. You'd do well to study what they're doing and emulate their success (in whatever form you want that to take).

But you _have_ to know this business in order to make money in it. And you _have_ to be willing to work for it because it is not an easy path.

_edit_

A thought occurred to me while I was taking the garbage to the road.

All of the above is what any writer would do when self-publishing. I think a disconnect occurs when people think of erotica and erotic romance as just being something you _can_ get away with throwing it up on Amazon and the 'erotic' part of it will sell itself.

That is not the reality of erotica anymore. It hasn't been the reality of erotic romance or romance for a long time.


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## amy_wokz (Oct 11, 2014)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I may not know enough about what's selling, but now i'm realizing that's not what is important to me anymore.


I'm glad your post has resulted in increased insight on your part. Self-growth is good. By all means, write for yourself and find joy in it. But I hope one day you will also realize that writing for others holds the greatest joy. Godspeed.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

GaiaGoddess said:


> So in a nutshell, the author of that book was lying? lol She said it took 3 months to earn $2000. I suppose it's always possible. But I won't expect it.
> 
> As for my writing, I don't want to change my style, I don't want to write like a high schooler, I am proud of the way I write. I have written poetry all my life and that comes out in my short stories. If that is like being overqualified for the job, I don't care, I'm not going to change to make money. I would rather write what naturally flows through me. I mean what's the point of being an artist if you're just gonna follow a formula everyone else follows? I guess if I don't make money from this, so be it.


The author of that book may not have been lying, but the book was written before the payment rules on Kindle Unlimited changed. A lot of people got into erotica because under the old payment system you could churn out 3500 word short stories and make $1.30 every time someone borrowed them. A lot of those people made a lot of money very quickly, but when Amazon changed the system in July to pay $0.0057 per page read, most of those people lost 95% of their income overnight. Under the new system today, a full read on a 5000 word short only gets you about 15 cents, not $1.30. So what was possible when that book came out is simply not possible today.

The cold, hard truth is that for most people writing erotica right now sales are flat-lined in the Amazon store. The heavy consumers of erotica got Kindle Unlimited subscriptions to save money, and so sales at the normal $2.99 price point have tanked hard. With the shorts in KU only worth a fraction of what they were a couple of months ago, a whole lot of people are getting out of the erotica business and either going back to their day jobs or switching to other genres. The people making money on erotica right now are the ones with large back catalogs that are all in Kindle Unlimited, and the ones who can either write 5000 words a day or hire ghostwriters to do it for them. It's purely a numbers game, and the people who can crank out tons of content are the only winners.

I'm not trying to discourage you from writing, but I don't want you to be misled by what you read in that book. I've been writing fairly vanilla heterosexual erotica shorts (for the most part), usually with a more romance-y bent, since 2011. It's what I like and it's what I enjoy writing, but I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't sell nearly as well as almost anything else which is centered around the various sexual kinks. Yes, you can make money at it. Yes, you can get fans. You're never going to get into the Top 100 Erotica Authors list with it, but it's not a complete waste of time.

At the end of the day you need to decide what to write based on what your goals are. If you just love to write and it's not about the money, then you can just write whatever you enjoy writing. If you want to make a career out of it and get rid of the day jobs, then you're going to have to write to the market. That means you study what sells and what other people are doing that works, then pick a genre/niche based on that information and carve yourself out a piece of it. The only other option is to write what you want to write and pray that you hit the lottery with it. Only the odds of having a runaway bestseller that way aren't even as good as winning the lottery, so keep that in mind.

Whichever way you decide to go, good luck.


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

GaiaGoddess said:


> So in a nutshell, the author of that book was lying? lol She said it took 3 months to earn $2000. I suppose it's always possible. But I won't expect it.


I'm sure the author wasn't lying. What she said may have been perfectly true two months ago. The climate has changed.

Also, she was probably talking about kinky erotica. My impression is that you write erotic romance. When you say your work is 75% romance and 25% erotica, I suspect what that really means is that your work is 100% erotic romance with 25% sexual content. A book can't be both erotica and romance. They're two completely different genres.



GaiaGoddess said:


> I'm not going to change to make money. I would rather write what naturally flows through me. I mean what's the point of being an artist if you're just gonna follow a formula everyone else follows? I guess if I don't make money from this, so be it.


Okay, that's completely different than what you said before. We were giving you advice about how best to make money. I assumed that maybe you wanted to quite one of your jobs and were looking for an alternative source of income. If making money fast isn't the objective, then you can focus more on the prose. You can tell the stories you want to tell. Understand, it might end up being a slower build to find your audience. And keep in mind that in today's market, the majority of readers are looking for caretaker alpha heroes.

Want to shut down a panel on writing heroes at a Romance Writers of America conference? Ask them how to write beta heroes. Silence.

Just be careful of talking about "formula" when it comes to romance. It's form, not formula. It's tropes--tried and true themes that readers love, which every story puts a unique spin on. And it's current trends, which writers of shorts can cash in on if they act fast.

It's not selling out to tell the story of your heart in a way that taps into what the readers are currently looking for. That's just good business. Indie authors (all authors, really, but especially indies) are both artists and business people. Sometimes, that means you need to compromise a little, even if that just means postponing a story until the market is more favorable, and working on what's hot today.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I feel like alpha hero is a poorly defined term. I've seen heroes with vastly different behavior described as alpha. Generally, it means strong, protective, and not emotionally demanding, which can fit a broad range of personalities from playful and witty to strong and silent.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

I would be interested to know from those who write in a series where each one is around 30 to 50k if you have had success in KU or outside of KU with the series?


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Rachel E. Rice said:


> It took four months of writing loads of shorts each week to reach four figures. However that was in KU1. When I was poised to make more money after writing over sixty 5-6 thousand words of short erotica and erom, KU2 happened, and I lost 70 percent of my income on Amazon.
> I began writing erotica, and switched to erom, when I discovered a subgenre which is conducive to my voice and style. I had very few readers then and not many more now because I don't advertise and I made my own covers, which could be one reason I was slow to pick up readers.
> Nevertheless, I have so many short reads(80-90) I began putting them in box sets and enrolling them at other vendors. "Nothing is wasted."
> 
> Lessons learned: It takes a large readership to make any kind of money in KU2 whether you write short or long.


Yes that is probably what happened to 90% of erotica writers. I dabbled in it a bit and was pulling in around $1000 before KU2 came in and killed it lol.

In many ways though I'm kind of thankful.

1. I didn't like writing in that genre ( bored me )
2. I think KU2 has leveled the playing field. Kicked out a huge whack of people who can only write short works and can't finish a novel. This means more opportunity to excel.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

mica said:


> I should have mentioned that the man shifts from his animal form when he is coupling with the woman.


Actually i've read a few where they were bears when they had sex. It's kind of borderline bestiality but they won't see it like that. Bears, Wolves etc are just meant to be all the rage. I think its the left overs from the twilight days lol


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

GaiaGoddess said:


> So in a nutshell, the author of that book was lying? lol She said it took 3 months to earn $2000. I suppose it's always possible. But I won't expect it.
> 
> As for my writing, I don't want to change my style, I don't want to write like a high schooler, I am proud of the way I write. I have written poetry all my life and that comes out in my short stories. If that is like being overqualified for the job, I don't care, I'm not going to change to make money. I would rather write what naturally flows through me. I mean what's the point of being an artist if you're just gonna follow a formula everyone else follows? I guess if I don't make money from this, so be it.


She wasn't lying. That was back in KU1 when erotica shorts were quick and easy to bang out.

We are now in KU2 ( whole different ball game ) You need longer works.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

hunterone said:


> She wasn't lying. That was back in KU1 when erotica shorts were quick and easy to bang out.
> 
> We are now in KU2 ( whole different ball game ) You need longer works.


Technically, no one "needs" to write longer work.

Short stories can still make you plenty of money. You just have to write more of them. That's all.


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

Navigator said:


> Technically, no one "needs" to write longer work.
> 
> Short stories can still make you plenty of money. You just have to write more of them. That's all.


If you're going to write shorts and hope to make money, it's probably best to bundle them, though, so you get more page reads per purchase/borrow.

I don't think you necessarily need to _write_ more of them. You just need to sell more pages, whether that's more stories or more sales of the same story.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

The only way to know what is going to happen with your fiction is to publish it. You've been given a lot of excellent advice here. But if you have 20 stories, put them up. If they float, great. If they don't, try again. No one can guarantee that doing X or Y is going to make you a winner. All you can really do is try.


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## Tstarnes (Sep 25, 2013)

I am finding the conversation in this thread endlessly interesting.  I have been getting a lot of advice from various places, mostly a group of authors who are writing erotica.  I was actually thinking my book (since I am just finishing my first novel) would be labeled as erotica since it has explicit sex scenes in it.

From what I am reading here, it seems people are saying that, even if a book has explicit sex, as long as that isn't the focus of the book (which it isn't for my book).  I just wanted to double check this since I am very close to putting the first book in my series up on Amazon, and didn't want to put it in the wrong place.

Also, it seems I keep hearing that erotica sells better than romance?  Is this true?


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Andrea @ ArtWellPub said:


> If you're going to write shorts and hope to make money, it's probably best to bundle them, though, so you get more page reads per purchase/borrow.
> 
> I don't think you necessarily need to _write_ more of them. You just need to sell more pages, whether that's more stories or more sales of the same story.


Oh yes, very true.

And pick a niche you know you can write it, and then do your best to dominate that niche.



Tstarnes said:


> I am finding the conversation in this thread endlessly interesting. I have been getting a lot of advice from various places, mostly a group of authors who are writing erotica. I was actually thinking my book (since I am just finishing my first novel) would be labeled as erotica since it has explicit sex scenes in it.
> 
> From what I am reading here, it seems people are saying that, even if a book has explicit sex, as long as that isn't the focus of the book (which it isn't for my book). I just wanted to double check this since I am very close to putting the first book in my series up on Amazon, and didn't want to put it in the wrong place.
> 
> Also, it seems I keep hearing that erotica sells better than romance? Is this true?


I'd say no, it's not true. Romance tends to be much longer, and longer books do tend to sell better and have a longer tail (as in, when you do a promo, the lasting effects of the promo lasts longer than on a short story).


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Tstarnes said:


> I am finding the conversation in this thread endlessly interesting. I have been getting a lot of advice from various places, mostly a group of authors who are writing erotica. I was actually thinking my book (since I am just finishing my first novel) would be labeled as erotica since it has explicit sex scenes in it.
> 
> From what I am reading here, it seems people are saying that, even if a book has explicit sex, as long as that isn't the focus of the book (which it isn't for my book). I just wanted to double check this since I am very close to putting the first book in my series up on Amazon, and didn't want to put it in the wrong place.
> 
> Also, it seems I keep hearing that erotica sells better than romance? Is this true?


Both romance and erotica can have explicit sex.

Basically, Romance is focused on the development of the relationship between the characters. Erotica is focused on the sexual experience or journey of the characters. 
If you have explicit sex scenes and a HEA you could be writing erotic romance.

To understand the difference between romance and erotica try these threads. They are short.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=183329.0
http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=213782.0


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

Romance sells better than erotica, but the rules are a little different for shorts. You can charge more for short erotica ($2.99 vs. $0.99) if you hit certain kinks. Otherwise, you need to have very high sales/borrows to make any money writing shorts.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

GaiaGoddess said:


> I'm not laughing at them as in making fun of them, I'm mostly shocked and confused. I just don't get how 2 of the biggest selling authors write about something I didn't know existed. And is there actually a fetish out there where women really want to have sex with bears for real? I guess I just don't understand the concept. But more power to them if there is a market for that. I just know I can't write that. And I'm sure there is a market out there for women who want to read what I write, I'm not worried about not getting readers. Every woman I know likes man/woman sex.


NO..no..no..no..no.....

The draw for those romances is the ultimate alpha-male. The main male character is the perfect blend of man and primal beast. So usually, he's direct and fearless in his pursuit of the female MC. Sex in those books never happens in animal form. Also, power is a dynamic here. This supernatural male has the power to shape change into the ultimate protector. There's typically a scene where he uses his power to become a vicious beast to protect the heroine.

We're talking cave man, primal, bestial male here.. not an actual animal. He's still sweet, loving, and kind to his mate.

But no on the animal sex/bestiality thing, that's not what these books are about.


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## MMacLeod (Sep 21, 2015)

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that quality writing is only half the battle. Sure, you might read something that is already published, even something published by a big traditional publisher and know in your heart that what you write is at least as good, if not better. But if you don't reach the readers, it doesn't matter. For every one minute you spend writing, you need to spend at least a minute, probably two or three, marketing your work and establishing yourself as an author. Whether you self publish or go through a traditional publisher, you won't make many sales just by tossing your work out there and hoping readers buy it. Be prepared that to be successful, you'll have to do a lot of research and spend a lot of effort in promoting what you've produced.

One other thing, you'll be more successful if you can identify what is going to be the next big trend and get in on it early, rather than coming in late to a trend that is about to be played out.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Nicole Carlson said:


> Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that quality writing is only half the battle. Sure, you might read something that is already published, even something published by a big traditional publisher and know in your heart that what you write is at least as good, if not better. But if you don't reach the readers, it doesn't matter. For every one minute you spend writing, you need to spend at least a minute, probably two or three, marketing your work and establishing yourself as an author. Whether you self publish or go through a traditional publisher, you won't make many sales just by tossing your work out there and hoping readers buy it. Be prepared that to be successful, you'll have to do a lot of research and spend a lot of effort in promoting what you've produced.
> 
> One other thing, you'll be more successful if you can identify what is going to be the next big trend and get in on it early, rather than coming in late to a trend that is about to be played out.


Disagree on all counts.

Not that this isn't one way, because it is. But it's only one way. You don't have to follow trends (or "the next big thing"), and, man, I'd TOTALLY disagree that the writing isn't what counts. You HAVE to write a compelling story, even if your prose skills aren't the best. (And I'd argue that prose skills help a whole lot, too.) If you don't write a compelling story, though, all the marketing and money in the world won't sell your book.

"Good writing" doesn't have to mean flowery prose, especially in genre, or metaphors or what-have-you. In romance, I'd argue that it means communicating vital, real characters and genuine emotion. And I'd argue that it's absolutely essential if you want to succeed.


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