# Why are US readers so intolerant of UK English/grammar?



## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


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## amyates (Feb 17, 2014)

It doesn't bother me personally, but I just realized (or realised  ) the other day that all of my favorite fantasy authors are Brits. So . . . 

Sadly, I'm not sure it occurs to some readers that there are differences between British and American English. It's unfortunate that you're getting burned for it. Sorry!


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Because they don't know it is UK spelling and grammar. They see something they've never encountered before and assume it's a typo or misspelling.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I like British-isms.  

I just hate when I forget which way to spell something.  :-D


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Well now if you had read it to us, we would be happy little larks.  
Seriously,  some people just do not understand that there is more than one flavour/flavor of the English language.  I would not worry about the reviews.  The Scottish English writers have the same problem.  I know of at least two authors, I proofed for and the only problem was the reviewer didn't know there is more to the English language than meets the eye.


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

Should I think about putting in some kind of regional disclaimer on the product page then? Though that might look very unprofessional or suggest I'm looking for a free pass of some kind. It's also obv from my author page that I'm a Brit but don't think that matters


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

I agree. It's rather unfortunate that we have to drop our own way of doing things. I did the same with dropping all of my Canadaisms.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Where are your books set?  It might help to put the setting in the blurb.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

KaiW said:


> I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


Apparently it can be. 

Can't add a lot to Carol's answer, above.

Some US readers seem unaware that "US English" has so many differences from "Rest-of-the-world English" and think anything unfamiliar to them must be a "mistake". Trade publishers have standard systems in place for UK and US editions (and these days virtually no UK fiction publisher is going to accept fiction without some kind of arrangement in place for a US edition) but as _self_-publishers, it's something we have to worry about, especially for digital sales.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


No.

It's just that we 'Mericans think our way's not only right, but "the most right."

Even though many Americans can't even spell, or they write literature that spells like a Prince lyric. (I Would Die 4 U!)

Better recogniZe. 

LOL


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

KaiW said:


> Should I think about putting in some kind of regional disclaimer on the product page then? Though that might look very unprofessional or suggest I'm looking for a free pass of some kind. It's also obv from my author page that I'm a Brit but don't think that matters


We in 'Merica like our Brits like we like our doctors.

Safely ensconced inside a TARDIS. 

That said, could I interest you in a trade? I'll gladly give you Justin Beiber, Miley Cyrus, Charlie Sheen, AND Lindsay Lohan, straight up, for one Hugh Laurie.

I miss Dr. House....


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

I wouldn't generalize. I received a so-so review from a British reader because I used Americanisms.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Neverland said:


> I did the same with dropping all of my Canadaisms.


I haven't dropped my Canadaisms. Don't plan to either. I still spell words like colo*u*r, labo*u*r, cent*re*, etc.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm an American who uses British spelling unintentionally, because so much of what I read is from British authors that I unconsciously soak it in. My editor catches my inconsistencies between American and British spelling and converts them all to American. Since I and most of my audience are Americans, I'm good with that. But really, I think consistency is the most important thing, choosing one spelling and sticking with it. Then too, when I'm faced with a chance to exercise my rights in writing however I want or writing how the broadest portion of my audience wants, I usually decide in favor of whatever gets me the fewest complaints via reviews. I have to feel pretty strongly about something before I'm prepared to take a hit for it. It's unfair but it happens to a lot of people here who use UK spelling. As someone posted upthread, a lot of Americans never see anything but US editions, so they get confused by the unfamiliar. You have to decide how important this is to you and if it's something you're prepared to get occasionally dinged for. 

P.S. I get UK reviews that say "You can tell the author is an American." So you can't please everybody.


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## Jj2011 (Oct 1, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


It depends. R ur characters supposed to be Brits or Americans and where is the setting? I think someone asked this but u never replied. If ur writing Brit when the characters r supposed to be Americans then it's another story. If ur characters r Brits then I guess u have to decide if it's important enough to cater to ur biggest potential audience pool or not. Is it fair? Absolutely not, but let's face it we all cater to our audiences because we want what they have -- their money.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

CraigInOregon said:


> We in 'Merica like our Brits like we like our doctors.
> 
> Safely ensconced inside a TARDIS.
> 
> ...


That would be classified as cruel and unusual punishment and inhumane to boot.

Oh and shall I pass the biscuits?


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Fictionista said:


> I haven't dropped my Canadaisms. Don't plan to either. I still spell words like colo*u*r, labo*u*r, cent*re*, etc.


Ditto. And I so far haven't received any bad reviews for it (though now I probably will.  ).

I have hopes that one day the American population will catch on to the rest of the world that there's more than one English spelling. 

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Should I think about putting in some kind of regional disclaimer on the product page then? Though that might look very unprofessional or suggest I'm looking for a free pass of some kind. It's also obv from my author page that I'm a Brit but don't think that matters


I wouldn't say it's unprofessional at all. I've seen a few books include a disclaimer at the beginning that said something along the lines of, "This book is written in British English, which has grammatical and spelling practices that differ from other forms of English."


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

In all my fantasy works I use grey for gray. I like the e better. As a former teacher of English in the US, I can honestly say that I worry about American students. They doesn't know nothin' bout how to spell and use grammar. Most reviews I read about spelling and grammar complaints are full of misspellings and grammar mistakes themselves! Throw those reviews in the dust bin straight away! LOL!


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

When I was London, we got into a similar discussion. I asked why do British bands sing in American?

_Because they sell more records in America._

Don't you guys think that's weird and a little insulting?

_Nah. Never thought much about it. _

I will say that I read the "Look inside" for FSOG and noticed the girls refer to their "flat" which stood out like a sore thumb for Pacfic Northwestern students, who would say "apartment." If your characters are American, I don't think you can get away with writing British.

If you are writing British characters, I get annoyed when the dialog and spelling are clearly American.

I feel like part of the "feel" of a British novel is in the spelling and turns of phrase- if that is where your novel is set, don't change it to please a few people who don't get it.


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## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

MyraScott said:


> I will say that I read the "Look inside" for FSOG and noticed the girls refer to their "flat" which stood out like a sore thumb for Pacfic Northwestern students, who would say "apartment." If your characters are American, I don't think you can get away with writing British.


You know, 50 Shades sold more than a few copies in the US. Clearly you can get away with it.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I don't understand how Americans can not have seen real* English even if books released in America are in American English. Do people not use the internet or do they only read stuff on the web written by other Americans?

*I hate the term British English. I mean, you don't say Spanish Spanish 

Being Australian, we use a lot of British and US terms interchangeably. For example, I'd say couch or sofa, apartment or flat (although usually a flat is one storey building). I do find if I have the choice, I'll try to use the American word in my writing but half the time I can't remember which is which.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

rosclarke said:


> You know, 50 Shades sold more than a few copies in the US. Clearly you can get away with it.


And she's survived more than a few 1-star reviews as well, hasn't she? So, really, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## jillb (Oct 4, 2014)

I studied under a British based education system and was always praised in English class - I even won an Oxbridge writing award. But when I suffered when I attended college in the US. All my instructors thought my style was "strange" and my spelling was "weird". These were coming from writing tutors. Americans in general are simply not used to British English. It takes a while to "convert" over. I often revert to Brit spellings and grammar but the word processor thankfully, often catches it. A  disclaimer would help. If your book is set in the UK or the Commonwealth, I agree with the others - just put a disclaimer in the blurb.


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## evawallace (Aug 7, 2014)

Spelling is only one problem. British humour is also difficult to get across especially sexual references. Products are also a problem, they've only heard of Hershey's chocolate, Cadbury's doesn't exist. I love the Yanks ( No offense intended) but I feel it's difficult to explain the differences when all they want to do is read the bloody book!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

evawallace said:


> Spelling is only one problem. British humour is also difficult to get across especially sexual references. Products are also a problem, they've only heard of Hershey's chocolate, Cadbury's doesn't exist. I love the Yanks ( No offense intended) but I feel it's difficult to explain the differences when all they want to do is read the bloody book!


The bunny delivers Cadbury Cream Eggs. They are an Easter treat.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm Australian, my books are set in Australia - my editor is in the US, so I tend to work with her to ensure everything reads in the most global way possible - AU/UK spellings, but altering the occasional phrase so that it parses to American eyes.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Maybe there really are some legit errors.  American readers find them in books by Americans as well.

Although I doubt it.  You're probably correct.

I occasionally get dinged for "lots of errors" in my Cold Cases, many of which are because one of my characters don't talk good (intentional).


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

British spellings don't bother me at all. I've spent a lifetime reading books and articles in both British and Amerian English, so I automatically adjust my thinking to the version being used in the specific work I'm reading.

The only British-ism that distracts me sometimes is punctuation, such as when I see titles without the period, Mr Jones instead of Mr. Jones. I'm also distracted by punctuation placed outside quote marks, such as "I need a glass of water". But those are very minor things that don't detract from my enjoyment of the writing.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't see any book links below your signature, and don't know what kind of books you write. So, I think it might depend on the education level of your audience, or that particular reader. In my case, it is unlikely that a reader picking up up most of my books would assume an "error" where the spelling was intentional (I sometimes _choose_ British spelling, or to play with a word and misspell it). But it's possible that, if a random survey of students at a Texas University were any indication (most didn't know who won the Civil War, or which country the U.S. won its independence from), that it's sheer ignorance.

I think that a prominent notice in the front matter, one that gives a few specific examples of British/American spelling differences, might help.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

CraigInOregon said:


> We in 'Merica like our Brits like we like our doctors.
> 
> Safely ensconced inside a TARDIS.
> 
> ...


Oi. Justin Bieber is Canada's fault. Just sayin'...

(Sorry, Canada. I love you! )


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

I think a disclaimer goes a long way. I also won't change my spelling and grammar.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I have no intention of changing either. I've read a couple of books set in the US with US spelling and grammar but the author obviously isn't American. It ends up being very jarring though I guess if it was done well I wouldn't have noticed at all.


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## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

kathrynoh said:


> I don't understand how Americans can not have seen real* English even if books released in America are in American English. Do people not use the internet or do they only read stuff on the web written by other Americans?
> 
> *I hate the term British English. I mean, you don't say Spanish Spanish


This confuses me too. I mean, it's all English. And considering how many dialects and varieties of English there are, it surprises me that everyone loses their mind when they don't understand a word or when they see a different spelling. Is it so hard to use a dictionary? I kind of like the term British English rather than real/proper English (just like Castilian Spanish for European Spanish), but calling it English English would be hilarious. I might have called it Bloody English once.


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## Tristan Cruz (Apr 2, 2014)

I work with a few Brits in my day job and love hearing them speak. They say thing like, "Ta" for Thank you, and learnt for learned. I rather enjoy it. And the sweet accent of female Brits or their cute children. Love hearing them speak. Why, even when they are angry it sounds nice and not angry. I love reading knowing it has British lingo because then I'm reading in that accent. These ignorant wankers giving you bad reviews need to bugger off.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I've concluded through experience that it is certainly the case that American readers are far less tolerant of British conventions than vice-versa and so now I only use American spelling even though I'm a Brit. Hopefully, it does not annoy my British readers.

One thing about punctuation (Mr with or without the period - Mr. etc.) I was sure I learned in school in England that abbreviations of ordinal numbers (1st, 2nd 3rd, etc.) should be followed by a period, i.e. 1st. 2nd. 3rd., etc.) But I recently had a reader say he downgraded his review from 4 stars to 3 stars because he found my consistent use of the period in phrases like "6th. Fleet" to be extremely annoying.

So I googled the usage and found he seems to be right - no period needed.  But I was sure I learned that in school in England.

Was I wrong?

Philip


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

I've seen disclaimers before and recommend that for those readers uneducated that their English isn't the only English.

Even US English has some details that most folks would assume are incorrect. (Periods and commas can sometimes go outside quotation marks, for instance. It's in the _Chicago Manual of Style_.)



kathrynoh said:


> *I hate the term British English. I mean, you don't say Spanish Spanish


Actually, you do say "Latin American Spanish" and "Castilian". There's no such thing as "Spain Spanish" because Spain has multiple languages. I've been told by someone who grew up in Spain that Basque and the other languages aren't even comparable to what's globally called "Spanish", and they aren't mutually comprehensible. I've read Italian is similar, where the source region makes such difference that at least one regional version (Milanese) is a completely different language.

(My above paragraph illustrates the technically correct way you can place periods outside quote marks even in US English.)

I speak Latin American Spanish, but my vocabulary is heavy on the Guatamalan and Peruvian. The latter in particular gets me in trouble, because some of the words are actually Quechua (Incan). It's really awkward to have someone stare at you blankly when you're saying "I like your sweater."

ETA: The Guatamalan has gotten me in trouble, too, because the polite-for-Guatamala "Have a nice day" = "Have a nice day (now leave now)" in other dialects. I did that for years before anybody bothered to tell me why they were laughing.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> That would be classified as cruel and unusual punishment and inhumane to boot.
> 
> Oh and shall I pass the biscuits?


Fish fingers and custard... LOL.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Oi. Justin Bieber is Canada's fault. Just sayin'...
> 
> (Sorry, Canada. I love you! )


My point is, I still miss Hugh Laurie. Yes, even from his Blackadder years, not just as Dr. House.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Because they think US grammar/spelling is right whilst UK grammar/spelling is wrong?

They are Americans though, so you'll have to forgive their ignorance.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I don't think it's that big of a problem.

As many US readers are charmed by UK English/grammar. I know I love it. All those extra u's and everyone is drinking tea.

All things being equal, I'd buy a UK book over a US book anytime.

Caveat: the book must be set in the UK. If a bunch of Americans are taking the lift and going out for a pint, I'm going to be scratching my head.


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## Jj2011 (Oct 1, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Because they think US grammar/spelling is right whilst UK grammar/spelling is wrong?
> 
> They are Americans though, so you'll have to forgive their ignorance.


And I bet u would do a jig if it meant u would sell more books to us big ol dumb Americans huh? Yuk yuk.


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## evawallace (Aug 7, 2014)

Jj2011 said:


> And I bet u would do a jig if it meant u would sell more books to us big ol dumb Americans huh? Yuk yuk.


We'd all like to sell more books to them thar yankies, whether their dumb or not.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I LOVE Americans! It's the Brits that won't buy my stuff   Yeah I know, shocking right? Seriously though, when I started in early 2000s I used to get reviews telling me off for writing colour honour realise my (correct right!) way, and not color honor realize. So to head of some of those kindly emails and reviews, I just put a foreword in my books explaining my methods along with a pronunciation guide for special made up words. It has cut down on the surprise factor that causes the complaints I think.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2014)

This does seem to be a problem for many authors. 

My books are set in England with English characters and all of my spellings reflect that. If I were to set a book in the US with American characters then I would have to change accordingly. 

If the response about spelling bothers you then add the disclaimer. You will still get people commenting because they believe that they are correct and you have misspelled.


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## batmansero (Oct 10, 2014)

I just realised the book I published last night is written in New Zealand English.  Why is that odd?  Normally I Americanize it before hitting publish.  If anyone mentions it, I'll just point out this book in particular is set in NZ so um...totally did it on purpose!


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

I love British spelling, slang, and phrasing. As for why people give bad reviews for it? I chalk it up to ignorance. Coupled with that is a lack of desire to find out. They see it and it's spelled differently than they're used to and they chalk it up to not having it edited. And that's sad. I remember when I was in grade school, we had a whole lesson block on differences in British and American English, including British terminology (torch / flashlight, lorry / truck, pram / buggy, etc.)

On a practical note, one of my clients put a note at the front of her books that her books are set in Australia and have been edited using British spelling and style guidelines. Not sure if it helped or not, but it's worth doing, I think. If your target audience is young enough, you could even have a glossary at the back that might be pretty cool.

Another option is partial localization. Localization being changing the language to fit a different demographic, which is similar to but different from translation. An example of this would be using American style for punctuation, American spellings, but still retaining British phrasing (or a combination of the above). In my experience, the punctuation can often be more jarring for Americans than spelling and terminology. Single quotation marks instead of double, commas and periods outside of quote marks, no periods with some abbreviations--that sort of thing can throw readers off a good bit. 

Anyway, sorry you're getting hit with that--it sucks.And I hope some of the suggestions help


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

MyraScott said:


> If you are writing British characters, I get annoyed when the dialog and spelling are clearly American.
> 
> I feel like part of the "feel" of a British novel is in the spelling and turns of phrase- if that is where your novel is set, don't change it to please a few people who don't get it.


Totally agree.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

So... the only tutorial you'll ever need...


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Well now if you had read it to us, we would be happy little larks.
> Seriously, some people just do not understand that there is more than one flavour/flavor of the English language. I would not worry about the reviews. The Scottish English writers have the same problem. I know of at least two authors, I proofed for and the only problem was the reviewer didn't know there is more to the English language than meets the eye.


or meets the aye


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## CelinaGrace (Nov 20, 2013)

I like the idea of a disclaimer at the start of a book. Might try that with my next one.
I've had exactly the same problem with my US reviews (although don't think I've got any one-stars specifically because of the 'typos') It's extremely irritating but luckily, those reviews are balanced out by some lovely ones by US readers who are rather more clued-up about the differences.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Jj2011 said:


> And I bet u would do a jig if it meant u would sell more books to us big ol dumb Americans huh? Yuk yuk.


Not perforce.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Perry Constantine said:


> I wouldn't say it's unprofessional at all. I've seen a few books include a disclaimer at the beginning that said something along the lines of, "This book is written in British English, which has grammatical and spelling practices that differ from other forms of English."


This is what I've started to do and I put it right under the title/author on the first page. Also, because I recall several readers complaining they couldn't understand some of the language used, I put explanations of slang expressions as well as examples of Brit v US spelling at the end.

I don't feel I could be true to my characters if I started to put American English into their mouths. Apart from anything else, I'm not sufficiently familiar with American slang. I'm also likely to offend British readers if I disown my own cultural inheritance. I'm roughly 50/50 in sales in the two countries, so it's a bit of a balancing act. How fortunate then, that I'm a (so-called) 'Balanced' Libran, with the symbol of the scales.

I'm hoping these additions will save me from a lot of grief and one star reviews.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

One more thing. I use one epub to rule all the channels muhahaha. There's no way I would change everything to having separate ASIN/books spelled for .com, .Au, .UK etc. Think of the marketing horror! And what about ranking in lists and cats. NO!

So I often write stories set in other worlds, and everything is spelled in Brit English. BUT I also have a couple of series set in America and THOSE are spelled in Brit English too, BUT I use american terms for things like lifts = elevators etc. Since the foreword, I rarely get complaints. I sometimes think we should have an import label for the .com store the way vinyl and CDs used to. It might even gather a little cache


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I have ALWAYS had problems with this sort of thing.

For starters, I write for a Nova Scotia publisher - but I also write for my indie releases which mostly sell to Americans. 

And I have received a few one-stars regarding my faulty grammar and spelling errors - which I directly attribute to my Canadian spelling.

I have my Spell-Check set to American spellings to try and combat this tendency of mine - but it still doesn't seem to help all that much.

The funny thing is I really don't enjoy most British writing. My wife adores her British historicals and her parlor/parlour mysteries - but I can only take so much of the British dialect before I reach for a Joe Lansdale, Raymond Chandler or Stephen Hunter novel.

I am a great fan of Guinness stout, though. I don't really care HOW you spell that stuff just so long as you pour it in my glass!


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Steve Vernon said:


> I have ALWAYS had problems with this sort of thing.
> 
> For starters, I write for a Nova Scotia publisher - but I also write for my indie releases which mostly sell to Americans.
> 
> ...


England is a horrible place to set a book in modern times (IMO of course!) Historicals though of any stripe set here= great. The reason is, nothing exciting EVER happens here now. So, ye olde England is great for stories. United Kingdom = NO! All in my opinion as a Brit of course, no offense meant to anyone blah blah and etc


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

TARDIS.

It cannot be stressed enough.

TARDIS.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> The reason is, nothing exciting EVER happens here now.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2109210/Missing-builder-John-Iveson-fed-pigs-farmers-bitter-row-debt.html


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

Bluebonnet said:


> British spellings don't bother me at all. I've spent a lifetime reading books and articles in both British and Amerian English, so I automatically adjust my thinking to the version being used in the specific work I'm reading.
> 
> The only British-ism that distracts me sometimes is punctuation, such as when I see titles without the period, Mr Jones instead of Mr. Jones. I'm also distracted by punctuation placed outside quote marks, such as "I need a glass of water". But those are very minor things that don't detract from my enjoyment of the writing.


I saw an article on writing on the web somewhere, that mentioned the British grammar is to have the punctuation outside of quote marks, not when I was at school in the UK it wasn't! This is a mistake someone has perpetuated somewhere, it is not a British thing as far as I am aware.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Nic said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2109210/Missing-builder-John-Iveson-fed-pigs-farmers-bitter-row-debt.html


I remember reading a short story years ago about a murderer who disposed of the body to the pigs. The pigs were then slaughtered and their remains fed to something else and so on until the hens were pecking at the final remains until no trace could ever be found of human remains.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I remember reading a short story years ago about a murderer who disposed of the body to the pigs. The pigs were then slaughtered and their remains fed to something else and so on until the hens were pecking at the final remains until no trace could ever be found of human remains.


It seems to be happening pretty regularly. There's a lot of rather intriguing murder going on in the United Kingdom, with a lot of British authors doing eminently well writing contemporary police procedurals, thrillers and horror.


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## belindaf (Jan 27, 2011)

I think it could be a lack of education about British-English nuances causing you issues. I read a lot of it. Some of my best writing pals are Brits and I love their work (Peter Labrow, Shaun Jeffries, and Marissa Farrar among them). I've had extensive conversations with them about the translation (or lack thereof) between American and British English catch phrases. Yes, Kathrynoh, I can see your point about Spanish Spanish, but there really is a huge disparity in how we write versus UK authors. I didn't look at your book, but is there something on it that identifies it's written by a UK author? Maybe you need a disclaimer on your description if it's that big of a problem.I'm not sure. At any rate, I'm sorry you're dealing with it.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


Don't worry about it; they are not representative of all Americans who are smart enough to figure out the British spellings. Keep in mind the American superiority complex; those that are flogging your book always think they're correct, don't realize that the UK came before the United States, and that proper English comes from England. They slept through history class.

Write another book.


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

CraigInOregon said:


> TARDIS.
> 
> It cannot be stressed enough.
> 
> TARDIS.


MUST have TARDIS.


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## Christine_C (Jun 29, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


I feel like there needs to be a PSA about this! There is confusion on both sides, though Brits are more aware of US spelling. But they're sometimes frustrated by an apparent overabundance of commas.

In the US we need a comma before a conjunction when joining two main clauses. In the UK this looks like a superfluous comma, but it's not a mistake. So the grammar differences work in our favo(u)r, I guess.


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

Thanks all, I might think about a adding a disclaimer if people think it doesn't look too odd. For those who asked, my books are set in the UK but to confuse the issue my MC is American! I don't make it easy on myself....


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Put a disclaimer in the description to say it's a 'British version'.

I'm British but I write in American. My books are set in America, which helps, but I decided to keep my text American because 90% of my readers are American. Plus, UK readers don't mind seeing American spellings (we're familiar with it anyway) whereas American readers aren't familiar with it, so they'll complain. 

(Edited to add: I have disclaimers notifying readers that the books are 'American versions')


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Unfortunately, ebooks open to the first page of the story, so most readers will never see a disclaimer if it is in the front matter.


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## Steve W. (Feb 23, 2011)

I find readers don't care, but my beta readers sure do: "What the heck is a chesterfield?" "Why is there a toilet in the washroom?" "Why are you using Kms and not miles?" "What's a toque? ... Oh, well why didn't you just call it a snow-hat?"


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## M. Frank Parsons (Sep 23, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


Because it's wrong.

American's (in general) don't care how YOU spell something, or what YOU call it. If its a torch, a boot, a Loo, a lorry or a Bobby, you're wrong.

Keep Britishisms out of books for Americans. This is why Queen Rowling had the title of her first book changed.

Individual people might not be bothered, but your reviews say the general populace is. There is no U in color, or flavor, BTW


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## mikeycampling (Oct 5, 2014)

My entry into the ABNA was criticised as having a typo when I knew it was correct, and that drove me wild.  We also have slightly different colloquialisms it seems. 

I have seen some writers put a note in the front saying, "I am a British author and I use British spellings." It might be worthwhile.  I guess it doesn't help that traditionally published books are often translated into US spellings. On the Self Publishing Podcast they once discussed whether there was a British version of the Harry Potter books.  I almost fell off my chair.


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

M. Frank Parsons said:


> Because it's wrong.
> 
> American's (in general) don't care how YOU spell something, or what YOU call it. If its a torch, a boot, a Loo, a lorry or a Bobby, you're wrong.
> 
> ...


Well thanks but they're not 'wrong' actually, just grammatically different. And as my books are written for an international audience, I have no desire to change each one simply to accommodate one particular market. My original question was how can it be such a bother when it is the same language with some variations?

And must admit I am a bit surprised to hear that some US readers may not have come across UK English before when its usage isn't especially rare, but given some of the reviews that does indeed seem to be the case. When readers have contacted me to compliment the story but point out obvious US/UK spelling issues, I worry about coming across as patronising if I make a case for regional discrepancies.

May well just have to suck it up though, as to be fair the majority of US reviews are positive, I just worry that the 'grammar errors' ones are turning off potential readers....


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## mikeycampling (Oct 5, 2014)

Mr Parsons - I hope your tongue is in your cheek.  I seem to recall that Americans refer to the language they use as English.  I believe that Rowling changed her title because the publishers thought the American populace wouldn't understand it.  Similarly, The Madness of King George III was not the third film in a series.


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## M. Frank Parsons (Sep 23, 2014)

mikeycampling said:


> Mr Parsons - I hope your tongue is in your cheek. I seem to recall that Americans refer to the language they use as English. I believe that Rowling changed her title because the publishers thought the American populace wouldn't understand it. Similarly, The Madness of King George III was not the third film in a series.


Only slightly in cheek.

If I was off-base, this thread would not exist because there would be no claims of poor grammar.

Americans can be an ignorant bunch about certain things. As an American living in America, I know these things.

As far as his American readers are concerned, he's wrong. Fix it or don't; his American readers have spoken and they say he's wrong.


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## M. Frank Parsons (Sep 23, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Well thanks but they're not 'wrong' actually, just grammatically different. And as my books are written for an international audience, I have no desire to change each one simply to accommodate one particular market. My original question was how can it be such a bother when it is the same language with some variations?
> 
> And must admit I am a bit surprised to hear that some US readers may not have come across UK English before when its usage isn't especially rare, but given some of the reviews that does indeed seem to be the case. When readers have contacted me to compliment the story but point out obvious US/UK spelling issues, I worry about coming across as patronising if I make a case for regional discrepancies.
> 
> May well just have to suck it up though, as to be fair the majority of US reviews are positive, I just worry that the 'grammar errors' ones are turning off potential readers....


OK, don't change your books. But when an American correctly tells you that you spelled 'valor' wrong, you know why.

Argue with your customers all you want. The question was asked and answered. Your acceptance of the answer is irrelevant.

Your points are valid, but there is obviously an issue, which is the 'alternative' spelling of certain words. Since the audience clearly does not accept these alternate constructs, they judge you for it, rightly or wrongly.

The customer says you're wrong. The customer is always right (even when they're an idiot).


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't use American spellings, and as it happens I've never been marked down for it. That extends beyond my self-publishing adventures and into large amounts of non-fiction article writing for AOL, TripAdvisor, and a whole bunch of others.


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

Eh, if you think US vs UK  English is bad, I am delighted to not be able to repeat for you the long-winded diatribes about Castellano vs. Espanol, and how the people who speak, read, and write that other stuff clearly have no idea ( or no intelligence, or are uncivilized / overbred ), etc. ad nauseum. 

Besides, it's far less, um, entertaining, to read it than it is to see it shouted across the fence. 

Anyway, this is not exactly an english-centric problem. It pops up everywhere there's language drift. If your French is good enough, you can learn all sorts of insults and jibes by following people glaring daggers at each other over French vs. Cajun vs. Quebecois vs. the various African patois. ("You learned your French from a Mauritian?!?! Ignore everything they taught you about pronunciation! They're All Wrong!")


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## Rae Scott Studio (Jan 26, 2014)

I like and have used UK language my entire life (born and bred USA so I have no clue why) I was CONSTANTLY getting nailed for it in school til I got a teacher who is obsessed with England and travels over the pond every single summer for several months. First person that EVER got it.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

M. Frank Parsons said:


> American's (in general) don't care how YOU spell something, or what YOU call it. If its a torch, a boot, a Loo, a lorry or a Bobby, you're wrong.


Given that fewer people speak and write American English than British English I'd disagree there. If American readers wish to show off their ignorance about other kinds of English, they're free to do so.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Carol (was Dara) said:


> P.S. I get UK reviews that say "You can tell the author is an American." So you can't please everybody.


Same here. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. 

I'm so used to reading either, that I don't even _see_ the UK English anymore. Or sometimes I do, but it doesn't bother me in the least. Most people are the same way. I suppose the only thing you can do, short of paying to edit an entirely different version and publishing accordingly, is put the disclaimer at the front.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

M. Frank Parsons said:


> This is why Queen Rowling had the title of her first book changed.


Nah, I heard it was because Americans don't have philosophers and wouldn't know what one was


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

KaiW said:


> Should I think about putting in some kind of regional disclaimer on the product page then? Though that might look very unprofessional or suggest I'm looking for a free pass of some kind. It's also obv from my author page that I'm a Brit but don't think that matters


Check out the Glossary of Angela Verdenius, which you can see in the look inside here - http://www.amazon.com/Fall-You-Gullys-Book-ebook/dp/B00O349DAM/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1415898008&sr=1-1&keywords=angela+verdenius

She starts with a paragraph that also includes a reference that some words are spelled differently. MOST notes re US/UK split are going to be overlooked, but I think setting it up as a glossary that comes before the story is eyecatching. It does cut into your look inside - but that's mostly a problem for shorter works. Also, Angela sells quite well, so I don't think it's cutting into her sales.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Nic said:


> Given that fewer people speak and write American English than British English I'd disagree there. If American readers wish to show off their ignorance about other kinds of English, they're free to do so.


True that the total number of British English speakers is greater than American English because you have to throw in India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, NZ, etc. But the number of ebook buyers speaking American English is greater than those speaking British English. That second fact is the relevant fact if you're a self-published author trying to make a living.

Consequently, if I were a British English writer, I would consider uploading the British English version for world rights minus the United States and uploading a US rights only American English version. But, more likely, I'd just have my work edited for American English to avoid version confusion and have it in the form most presentable to my primary audience.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

This is bringing up another thought.  I read a book by a London  author about a character that had gone to a small town in Texas in the middle of summer.  Two things in the book struck me as odd being  a Texan.  One she had her female character wearing a suit jacket.  A regular summer dress would have been more feasible.  About the only two places in Texas you will see a full suit in the summer is either a pallbearer at a funeral or going to Federal court.  And that is for guys only.
Other thing that struck me was her and the male main character were going to the bar to have one drink and they took a taxi.  I have never seen anyone take a taxi to a bar. Home from one yes.  
I did learn both were common practice in London.  

So wherever you set your book, learn about the local customs first.    Summer in Texas is usually at least 36° Celsius midday.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Unfortunately, ebooks open to the first page of the story, so most readers will never see a disclaimer if it is in the front matter.


This is why we put our disclaimers at the top of the page on chapter one. Tens of thousands of books later, and we haven't had a single 'full of errors' type of review since doing this.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> Consequently, if I were a British English writer, I would consider uploading the British English version for world rights minus the United States and uploading a US rights only American English version. But, more likely, I'd just have my work edited for American English to avoid version confusion and have it in the form most presentable to my primary audience.


That's only if you care about this. I don't. I'm not going to change my native language for a few quid.


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

I came up against this issue recently in one of my books where an English character was talking about a friend in the hospital.  In England, people tend to omit 'the' before hospital ("He's in hospital"), but I knew that American readers would think it was a typo so I used 'the' anyway.  The character spent a lot of time in the US so I (hopefully) will get a pass on that one from people who know better.  On a personal note, I grapple with the spelling differences on a weekly basis.  I'm an American and I've lived in England for 7+ years ~ my children are in English schools learning, naturally, English spellings.  'Manoeuvred' was on this week's list and I had to look it up to make sure my son was right because it wouldn't have been right in the US!


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## Tristan Cruz (Apr 2, 2014)

Yeah, the final thought here I think is all judgment toward any kind of British lingo would be based on pure ignorance, and that's something none of us want to be is ignorant.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I can honestly say nobody has ever dinged me for my British English and I've never had to put a disclaimer. However, my books are terribly, terribly British and readers know what they're getting before they buy it.

Also - and someone correct me if I'm wrong here - I believe that the 'ise' = British, 'ize' = US thing is a Microsoftism, which sprang out of the same brain that wrote the MS spell check and has now got us all spelling Argentinian as Argentinean (argh, kill). As I understand it, 'ise' and 'ize' have always been pretty much interchangeable.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

It has always been ize here long before MS.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Lydniz said:


> I can honestly say nobody has ever dinged me for my British English and I've never had to put a disclaimer....


Dat coz you is lucky missy. Innit...

For books that aren't overtly British themed, disclaimers solve the problem beautifully!


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

KaiW said:


> Why are US readers so intolerant of UK English/grammar?


For those of us old enough to remember the American Revolution, we still hold a grudge.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Colin said:


> Dat coz you is lucky missy. Innit...


I must have been. I think I'll go and write a nice passive-aggressive disclaimer for my next series.


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## Tim_A (May 25, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> Also - and someone correct me if I'm wrong here - I believe that the 'ise' = British, 'ize' = US thing is a Microsoftism, which sprang out of the same brain that wrote the MS spell check and has now got us all spelling Argentinian as Argentinean (argh, kill). As I understand it, 'ise' and 'ize' have always been pretty much interchangeable.


Both are correct in British. essentially the difference is that "ise" is favoured by the Cambridge university style guide and "ize" by the Oxford university style guide (aka "Oxford spelling").

The OED gives the first usage of the word "organize" as being 1425, and "realize" in 1611. "ise" spellings were not recorded until 1755.

BUT there are words that are always spelt (;-p) with an ise in British: advertise, exercise, compromise, promise, surprise... There are also "yse" words: analyse, paralyse etc. which are never spelled with a z.

(OUP blog: http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/03/ize-or-ise/)


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Tim_A said:


> Both are correct in British. essentially the difference is that "ise" is favoured by the Cambridge university style guide and "ize" by the Oxford university style guide (aka "Oxford spelling").
> 
> The OED gives the first usage of the word "organize" as being 1425, and "realize" in 1611. "ise" spellings were not recorded until 1755.
> 
> ...


Phew. Not completely wrong, then!


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## Tim_A (May 25, 2013)

swolf said:


> For those of us old enough to remember the American Revolution, we still hold a grudge.


That's okay, we'll let you back in. Just make us all a nice cup of tea, and fix your spelling.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Mumble mumble mumble mumble TARDIS.

Mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble British Things mumble mumble mumble.

Mumble mumble mumble fish fingers and custard mumble mumble mumble.

Mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble Margaret Thatcher and Hugh Laurie!

Mumble mumble mumble College Humor mumble mumble mumble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UsGEyz_2rE

Mumble mumble mumble Matt Smith, Karen Gillan, Peter Capaldi, Jenna-Louise Coleman and Arthur Bloody Darvil!

With love, to all my Jack-the-Ripper's native country fans, LOL 

Now go make me some more Doctor Who and Sherlock, please.


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## Flopstick (Jul 19, 2011)

I refuse to pander to American insularity because, unlike most American companies, I don't think that Americans are stupid. Obviously if one of my characters is American, I'm going to try to make them sound American, but other than their dialogue I'm going to write in my native English. There is no earthly reason that a US reader can't follow it just as easily as I can follow American literature. It's character building, and horizon-broadening, and educational, and other good things. I am sorely tempted to start putting a small roundel or a Union Jack on my covers though, just to make it clear to any potential reader who doesn't like even the _tiniest_ challenge.

edit - actually, no, there should be a kitemark for books that can be guaranteed to be free of confusing foreign words. A bald eagle silhouette, or a pyramid with an eye in it or something. That would work better.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Lydniz said:


> I must have been. I think I'll go and write a nice passive-aggressive disclaimer for my next series.


Aggressive-passive-passive-aggressive-aggressive-passive disclaimers work best. Keeps the punters confused and willing to obey your every command!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Colin said:


> Aggressive-passive-passive-aggressive-aggressive-passive disclaimers work best. Keeps the punters confused and willing to obey your every command!


What does football have to do with it?


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Monique said:


> What does football have to do with it?


 Surely you mean soccer, Monique?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Colin said:


> Surely you mean soccer, Monique?


Exactly!


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

Monique said:


> Exactly!


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Tim_A said:


> That's okay, we'll let you back in. Just make us all a nice cup of tea, and fix your spelling.


Um, see, the thing is, we sort of dumped all our tea in Boston Harbor...


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

swolf said:


> For those of us old enough to remember the American Revolution, we still hold a grudge.


We wash our collective hands of that little mishap. Whoever it was that thought a mad German-born king would do a good job of running our country/empire must have been a tad flaky.

Anyway, a belated apology, and we promise not to hassle you again.....but do try your bestest to learn our f**king language at some point.


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## von19 (Feb 20, 2013)

We're intolerant about everything: race, religion, sex, sports team, etc ... just consider it another thing to add to the list. No biggie.


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## 67499 (Feb 4, 2013)

Great, provocative thread.  Fun to recall that for many decades after WW2 the problem was the reverse - US publishers seeking to sell books in UK would convert them from American to British English and then sell the Brit version on both sides of the pond.  Because Americans tolerated Britishisms in their texts while the Brits did not tolerate Americanisms.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Some Americans dislike British spellings/grammar.
Some don't care.
Some actually like it when a book is set in Britain or the characters are British.

General statement generally miss a few important points.

Oh, and someone mentioned the Harry Potter books.  A funny thing to bear in mind is that the last 2 (or maybe 3) books were NOT converted to American English because the publishers wanted to get the books to Americans quickly.  This let to a continuity mistake between the first book and one of the latter ones.

Oh, second note, I do actually say "Spanish Spanish" to people to differentiate from the Puerto Rican, Dominican, Mexican and Peruvian Spanish that my co-workers speak.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

David S. said:


> Most Americans can't even properly read and write in our own language, much less yours, so there's that.
> 
> Personally, I rather enjoy UK English, but that's just me.


Agree on both points!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Has anyone mentioned:

Handbag, pocket book, purse, wallet?

A purse is where you put your money before slipping it into your handbag. A man carries a wallet.

From watching US TV programmes I assume a pocket book is a wallet and a purse is handbag


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Not sure if this is a north of England expression or even if it's still being used, but we used 'dead' a lot.

It was dead good. He's dead boring. It's dead old-fashioned.


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## Christine_C (Jun 29, 2014)

Augusta Blythe said:


> I came up against this issue recently in one of my books where an English character was talking about a friend in the hospital. In England, people tend to omit 'the' before hospital ("He's in hospital"), but I knew that American readers would think it was a typo so I used 'the' anyway. The character spent a lot of time in the US so I (hopefully) will get a pass on that one from people who know better. On a personal note, I grapple with the spelling differences on a weekly basis. I'm an American and I've lived in England for 7+ years ~ my children are in English schools learning, naturally, English spellings. 'Manoeuvred' was on this week's list and I had to look it up to make sure my son was right because it wouldn't have been right in the US!


I lived in the US for 2/3 of my life and UK for 1/3. My spellings and phrases are a mishmash of both. Hopefully my editor will catch it all... 
I did read a book recently written by an American set in the UK that was embarrassingly inaccurate in its understanding of British culture and phrasing. The main character kept saying something like "I'm right tired now."


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Unfortunately, ebooks open to the first page of the story, so most readers will never see a disclaimer if it is in the front matter.


Moving my disclaimer immediately! Thanks for the reminder.


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## LKWatts (May 5, 2011)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


I have the exact same problem. A Step Too Far is the book I'm most proud of but the Americans seem to hate it. I think I have only two nice reviews on Amazon.com


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Hiya, I haven't read past the first page of this thread but just for reference here is the disclaimer that goes in the front of every single one of my books:

*This book was written, produced and edited in the UK, where some spelling, grammar and word usage will vary from US English.*

I don't assume my audience should know the difference, but then I do write for teens, and we all know how they can be 

Edited to add: I put in a bit "about the book" recapping the blurb and then the disclaimer goes under that. My books seem to open at that page rather than Chapter One (because I use Heading One font for both) so it is always seen. Hope that helps!


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## chris56 (Jun 8, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Has anyone mentioned:
> 
> Handbag, pocket book, purse, wallet?
> 
> ...


Actually, purse, handbag and pocketbook all mean the same thing. I never refer to my handbag as a handbag or a pocketbook - I always call it a purse. I have a wallet that I keep inside my purse and that's where I keep my money and credit cards.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

chris56 said:


> Actually, purse, handbag and pocketbook all mean the same thing. I never refer to my handbag as a handbag or a pocketbook - I always call it a purse. I have a wallet that I keep inside my purse and that's where I keep my money and credit cards.


Thanks for clarifying .


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Men carry wallets here too.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Unicorn said:


> That's like how we use wicked here in Maine, US and Eastern Canada: It is wicked good. He's wicked boring. It's wicked old-fashioned. I've always been told it's the thing that "brands" my lingo "distinctly Scottish". Every time I use "wicked ___" someone will say to me "there you go talking like a Maine Scotsman again".


It's funny, here in the NW, I would associate _wicked funny, wicked good, _ etc., with the latest trend in slang. Wickedly funny, wickedly good, etc., sounds more British to me. As far as Scottish lingo goes, that, too, must be a regional thing, because my family is Scottish and I would never have associated _wicked good_ with the Scots. I suppose it depends on which region of Scotland they came from originally and what part of the US they landed in. Our language has become a beautiful hodgepodge over the centuries.


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 29, 2014)

Carol (was Dara) said:


> I'm an American who uses British spelling unintentionally, because so much of what I read is from British authors that I unconsciously soak it in. My editor catches my inconsistencies between American and British spelling and converts them all to American. Since I and most of my audience are Americans, I'm good with that. But really, I think consistency is the most important thing, choosing one spelling and sticking with it. Then too, when I'm faced with a chance to exercise my rights in writing however I want or writing how the broadest portion of my audience wants, I usually decide in favor of whatever gets me the fewest complaints via reviews. I have to feel pretty strongly about something before I'm prepared to take a hit for it. It's unfair but it happens to a lot of people here who use UK spelling. As someone posted upthread, a lot of Americans never see anything but US editions, so they get confused by the unfamiliar. You have to decide how important this is to you and if it's something you're prepared to get occasionally dinged for.
> 
> P.S. I get UK reviews that say "You can tell the author is an American." So you can't please everybody.


I was also doing this intentionally. I finally figured out that I'm supposed to spell traveled with on L and gray without the E.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I use grey, myself. I just like it better.


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## mikeycampling (Oct 5, 2014)

It's been mentioned that the way ebooks open at the 1st page means that people won't see a disclaimer in the front matter.  I'm thinking of putting one at the end, in the about the author bit and perhaps mentioning it where I ask for a review.  That way, a potential reviewer might see the light before posting a review complaining about the grammar (which is what the original thread was about).


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


It doesn't bother me in the least. But then again, I realize and recognize what's happening and don't assume that they're grammar errors. In my books and stories, I frequently put in British characters and they speak their own language. So far, I haven't had any complaints although my new book has a lot more of it so we'll see.  For those who don't get it, maybe you could put British Author prominently in the description of your book? Not sure what else you can do.


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## Tim_A (May 25, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Not sure if this is a north of England expression or even if it's still being used, but we used 'dead' a lot.
> 
> It was dead good. He's dead boring. It's dead old-fashioned.


*Dead*, when used as an adverb means precise / exact / complete / total, & it's used quite extensively in that sense:

dead ahead 
dead astern 
dead stop 
dead level
dead centre - inc top/bottom/front/back dead centre etc in engines
dead reckoning (navigation)
dead on
dead right
dead heat (i.e. a tie)
dead ringer (meaning an exact duplicate or doppleganger)
dead beat
dead set on / dead set against
etc.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

mikeycampling said:


> It's been mentioned that the way ebooks open at the 1st page means that people won't see a disclaimer in the front matter. I'm thinking of putting one at the end, in the about the author bit and perhaps mentioning it where I ask for a review. That way, a potential reviewer might see the light before posting a review complaining about the grammar (which is what the original thread was about).


no matter where you put a disclaimer, in the front, in the back, in the middle of a chapter, some people will never see it and some will skim it. and some will read it and forget it immediately.

this is one of those issues that pops up periodically and my advice to the authors is always, just accept the fact that there are a lot of readers out there and you can't please them all.


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## Perro Callejero (Dec 23, 2013)

It goes both ways.  I've had my American English criticized in reviews on co.uk.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Um, see, the thing is, we sort of dumped all our tea in Boston Harbor...


You should have flogged it back to us. Just business Guv


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> You should have flogged it back to us.


OK, what does 'flogged' mean here?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> OK, what does 'flogged' mean here?


It means to sell.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> It means to sell.


So glad Cherise asked, because I was totally confused.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

It bothers me because I'm not used to it so it throws me off and distracts me from the story sometimes, but I'd never 1 star someone for it.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Marcos Fenton said:


> It goes both ways. I've had my American English criticized in reviews on co.uk.


You're not supposed to say that in this thread. 

And don't you mean "criticised" ?


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

What on earth is a Pocket Book?

it sounds like a small note pad that a writer such as myself might keep in their handbag for jotting down things that come to mind on their WIP? Or am I way off?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Pocketbook one word can refer to either a wallet or a handbag/purse.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I read Pocket Book and thought of the little books I had as a kid.  I wondered who had brought up Pocket Books? 

I honestly had no idea you mean pocketbook.  That's what my grandma called her purse/handbag/clutch/carryall thing with some sort of handle.  

It is sort of an old-fashioned word where I am from, but could be regionally popular.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

So hang on, let me be clear on this, it can be either a purse _or_ a handbag? Even though the word makes no sense as either? how peculiar!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Evenstar said:


> So hang on, let me be clear on this, it can be either a purse _or_ a handbag? Even though the word makes no sense as either? how peculiar!


My thinking too, that's why I asked.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Ok here in the US a purse and handbag are interchangeable. Both mean place to put your wallet and other things. 
Wallet generally means place for money,  credit cards, rewards cards and id.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

The funny thing about English is that because we have borrowed words from some many places, there are sometimes multiple words meaning the same thing.  And that sometimes words mean different things in different areas.  I've always found it better to figure out what a word means in context then to claim a word is wrong.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

My grandmother had a coin purse in her purse.  Amusing thing about that is that every so often,  she would have to clean out the coins from the bottom of her purse and put them in either her coin purse or whichever grandchild was around later greats.  She also left change all over the house.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I'm fairly sure that pocket book used to be the British English word for a man's wallet, before we started calling it a wallet.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

MeganBryce said:


> I'd never heard pocketbook until I read Janet Evanovich and Stephanie Plum and I'm in the western US. I thought it was a wallet... but I think it's a purse.


Me, too. I was completely confused by the term, because where I'm from, pocket book is an alternate term for a paperback book. Though I think Stephanie Plum's pocketbook is a handbag, since she puts her gun into it. And you can't put a gun into a wallet.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

According to Miriam Webster it's a purse or handbag. But I'd always thought it was synonymous with wallet, but for women. It folds open like a book and you store it in your pocket. You can't do that with a purse or handbag!

I think we all need to go back to carrying reticules. 

Rue


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

ruecole said:


> According to Miriam Webster it's a purse or handbag. But I'd always thought it was synonymous with wallet, but for women. It folds open like a book and you store it in your pocket. You can't do that with a purse or handbag!
> 
> I think we all need to go back to carrying reticules.
> 
> Rue


We need to carry the tiny lines in a telescope's eyepiece? 
And I have made the other reticules but never embellished one.


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

MyraScott said:


> I read Pocket Book and thought of the little books I had as a kid. I wondered who had brought up Pocket Books?
> 
> I honestly had no idea you mean pocketbook. That's what my grandma called her purse/handbag/clutch/carryall thing with some sort of handle.
> 
> It is sort of an old-fashioned word where I am from, but could be regionally popular.


"Pocketbook" is still widely used for handbag/purse by a lot of older people in the southern U.S.

What confuses me is the trendy term, "wearing your bag" instead of "carrying your bag." I can understand how you could stretch the definition to "wearing" it if you have a shoulder bag or a waist purse, since those are hands-free, but still, "wearing" something makes me think of clothing and jewelry.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

My whatever you want to call it can either be carried on my shoulder or crossbody or worn as a backpack.  The last was most handy on vacation and it was doubling as a camera bag.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> It means to sell.


Thanks!



ruecole said:


> But I'd always thought [pocketbook] was synonymous with wallet, but for women. It folds open like a book and you store it in your pocket.


This was my understanding as well.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Now who wants some biscuits?    
And what do you want with them?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

MeganBryce said:


> Gravy.


Sausage, plain or red eye?


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

Red eye, of course!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

"catswallop"

"bangers and mash"

"brain *******" (NOT what you think...nothing lifestylish, just MEATBALLS WRAPPED IN INTESTINES AND SERVED WITH GRAVY)

"bubble and squeak"

"lighting a ***" (NOT what you think, 'Mericans! They're referring to Winston Gold 100s and the like...)

"fairy cake" (Again, NOT what you think, 'Mericans! It means cupcake.)

"marmite" (Sounds like a Doctor Who villain, but it's a rather disgusting food.)

==

Seriously, England? And you expect us 'Mericans to cede control of the language to you wan-kers?

Seems a bit wonky to me, so I'll quit yakking as I am a bit zonked.


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## Raquel Lyon (Mar 3, 2012)

Marmite's actually quite delicious, and I'll have my biscuits dunked in a nice cup of tea, please.


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

> Seriously, England? And you expect us 'Mericans to cede control of the language to you wan-kers?


You had our language and you abused it, mangled it, strangled it and infected it with an irritable vowel syndrome virus. But at least we can still (just about) understand you.

So peeps, high fives to you all.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Now who wants some biscuits?
> And what do you want with them?


I've seen what you lot call biscuits and I want no part of it.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Me, too. I was completely confused by the term, because where I'm from, pocket book is an alternate term for a paperback book. Though I think Stephanie Plum's pocketbook is a handbag, since she puts her gun into it. And you can't put a gun into a wallet.


Yeah, the Dutch also use pockets (short for pocket books) to refer to the smaller mass market paperback size (since they fit into your pocket), I had to double check the use of the word yesterday as it seemed (to me) like a word that we might have borrowed from English, apparently... no clue...


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Raquel Lyon said:


> Marmite's actually quite delicious, and I'll have my biscuits dunked in a nice cup of tea, please.


The description I read described it as "akin to salty motor oil."

Pass, unless that description's way off!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Colin said:


> You had our language and you abused it, mangled it, strangled it and infected it with an irritable vowel syndrome virus.


An' that's just what we did to it that's repeatable via Forum Decorum!

You should check into what we did to the language ... after dark! 

Hint: Only Whitechapel natives like Jack the Ripper and Jihadi John would not blush!


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

CraigInOregon said:


> An' that's just what we did to it that's repeatable via Forum Decorum!
> 
> You should check into what we did to the language ... after dark!
> 
> Hint: Only Whitechapel natives like Jack the Ripper and Jihadi John would not blush!


Wicked!


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Kia Zi Shiru said:


> Yeah, the Dutch also use pockets (short for pocket books) to refer to the smaller mass market paperback size (since they fit into your pocket), I had to double check the use of the word yesterday as it seemed (to me) like a word that we might have borrowed from English, apparently... no clue...


I always suspected it was borrowed from English, too, but it might be one of those "fake English" import words.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

MeganBryce said:


> My mom just went to Australia for a vacation (holiday  ) and I told her the only thing I wanted was vegemite. I have no idea what I'm going to do with it...


It's great for greasing engines.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

MeganBryce said:


> And here I was thinking it had something to do with toast.


Oh yes, you can grease toast with it too.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Lydniz said:


> Oh yes, you can grease toast with it too.


Try the cheesybite vegemite - it's even better.


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## Ceinwen (Feb 25, 2014)

MeganBryce said:


> And here I was thinking it had something to do with toast.


Put it on toast and then melt cheese over the top. Heaven.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2014)

Yours may be the first book they've read that wasn't by an American author. Not sure how to educate them in a tactful manner. Most folks reading the reviews will understand what is happening. I would, anyway.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

You can't win with some readers either side of the pond. 

I published my individual shorts with 2 versions. (Between 5,000/10,000 words per story.) One for the  UK and one for the US, with links for the customer to decide which version. I had the odd review say I'd done it to bulk up the page count. Ah well...like I say, you can't win.

I publish 2 versions of my full length books, or compilations and restrict the rights. In my first book, I'd left "do you 'fancy' a coffee" in the American version, because the character was English, but got pulled for it. The same with "fancy dress party" instead of "costume party." I only publish the American version with Create Space as the stories are set in the US and I can't see that you can restrict rights the same as kindle.

In a UK version I'd left it as "sidewalk" because it was set in the US, and got pulled in a review for it not being "pavement"

In the UK, publishers of most American books only change double quotes to single and adjust punctuation quirks, but leave the spellings as American. I always change the spellings for the respective territories.

Really Amazon are at fault here and not the author, because they only list "English" at upload. When I spoke to Amazon about the problem, they said put a UK or US flag on the different versions!!!!! Yeah, right.


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## John F (May 19, 2014)

Why do you think so? I certainly am not, nor are any of my friends. Of course, few of them read imported English editions. American editions of British books are typically copyedited by the American publisher to conform with American spelling and American-style punctuation. Shakespeare is an exception.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

MeganBryce said:


> My mom just went to Australia for a vacation (holiday  ) and I told her the only thing I wanted was vegemite. I have no idea what I'm going to do with it...
> 
> And I have never heard of red-eye gravy (I obviously need to spend some time in the south), so sausage! With LOTS of pepper.


red eye gravy, fry you up some ham slices. Remove ham from pan. Pour a cup or two of coffee in drippings. Serve over your choice of bread.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Bluebonnet said:


> "Pocketbook" is still widely used for handbag/purse by a lot of older people in the southern U.S.
> 
> What confuses me is the trendy term, "wearing your bag" instead of "carrying your bag." I can understand how you could stretch the definition to "wearing" it if you have a shoulder bag or a waist purse, since those are hands-free, but still, "wearing" something makes me think of clothing and jewelry.


It strikes me (but I'm no fashion guru), that this would be the sort of bag that someone like Posh Spice would wear, that costs several thousand quid. A 'designer bag'. You'd definitely 'wear' that! Or I would. If I had one.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

John F said:


> Why do you think so? I certainly am not, nor are any of my friends. Of course, few of them read imported English editions. American editions of British books are typically copyedited by the American publisher to conform with American spelling and American-style punctuation. Shakespeare is an exception.


That's something I'd never do or allow to be done. I'm British, I write British English. I'm not going to "translate" my language into another version or style just because a few very rare readers can't be bothered to educate themselves a bit. With but minor effort it's possible to get enough of a grasp of BE to read it. Just as I do, when reading American or Canadian authored books.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Been following this thread with interest. One of my books received a comment from an American reviewer that it was riddled with errors and made-up words. That puzzled me for days until I realised that the reviewer didn't know that British English has differences from American English. As for the made-up words, a couple of characters are Welsh and use the occasional Welsh word (e.g. _cariad_, which means love: How are you, _Cariad_?)

I considered for only a moment inserting some sort of disclaimer, but dismissed the idea. Like others have said, we can't please everyone and I don't want to waste time trying to. Besides, I grew up reading authors like Stephen King and Peter Straub. Part of the attraction for me was encountering Americanisms and puzzling out what they meant from context. It took me years to work out what on earth a Twinkie is.

And Marmite? People tend to either love or loathe it. I'm firmly in the second camp. We refer to films or books that people tend to either love or hate (with very few falling in the middle) as Marmite films/books. _The Blair Witch Project_ is a good example. I happen to love that film, but know many people who hate it.


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## Jj2011 (Oct 1, 2014)

Nic said:


> That's something I'd never do or allow to be done. I'm British, I write British English. I'm not going to "translate" my language into another version or style just because a few very rare readers can't be bothered to educate themselves a bit. With but minor effort it's possible to get enough of a grasp of BE to read it. Just as I do, when reading American or Canadian authored books.


LOL That's the kind of integrity/stubbornness u can afford to have...when ur not selling a lot of books.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Jj2011 said:


> LOL That's the kind of integrity/stubbornness u can afford to have...when ur not selling a lot of books.


Or a ton of books.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

cinisajoy said:


> Or a ton of books.


beat me to it.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I was under the impression that a marmite was a small furry rodent of some kind?

Nevermind, that's a _marmot. _


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

MyraScott said:


> I was under the impression that a marmite was a small furry rodent of some kind?
> 
> Nevermind, that's a _marmot. _


A marmite is a young marmot - both delicious spread on toast.


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## John F (May 19, 2014)

Nic said:


> That's something I'd never do or allow to be done. I'm British, I write British English. I'm not going to "translate" my language into another version or style just because a few very rare readers can't be bothered to educate themselves a bit. With but minor effort it's possible to get enough of a grasp of BE to read it. Just as I do, when reading American or Canadian authored books.


In American publishing, copyediting to conform to the publisher's house style, including American spelling, is normal and ordinarily not subject to the author's veto. I've been rereading classic detective novels by Margery Allingham, Edmund Crispin, Michael Innes, Ngaio Marsh, and others in American editions and all have been copyedited in this way. Whether any of the words have been changed in the process for the benefit of American readers, I wouldn't know.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

John F said:


> In American publishing, copyediting to conform to the publisher's house style, including American spelling, is normal and ordinarily not subject to the author's veto. I've been rereading classic detective novels by Margery Allingham, Edmund Crispin, Michael Innes, Ngaio Marsh, and others in American editions and all have been copyedited in this way. Whether any of the words have been changed in the process for the benefit of American readers, I wouldn't know.


I don't have an American publisher, wouldn't want one, and the British publishers I worked and work with have that veto in their contracts at my request.

As a reader I find the willingness of Americans to forego the original texts in lieu of what can only be a second-rate translation puzzling. I try to read as much as I can in its original language.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Colin said:


> A marmite is a young marmot - both delicious spread on toast.


Think we have a winner.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Nic said:


> I don't have an American publisher, wouldn't want one, and the British publishers I worked and work with have that veto in their contracts at my request.
> 
> As a reader I find the willingness of Americans to forego the original texts in lieu of what can only be a second-rate translation puzzling. I try to read as much as I can in its original language.


Reading a British author whose work has been edited by the American standard for spelling and grammar would be like watching Downton Abbey with American voice overs. Why bother?


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## Peter Spenser (Jan 26, 2012)

KaiW said:


> I can't understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language?


Because they're ignorant fools. Why do you think?


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## John F (May 19, 2014)

vlmain said:


> Reading a British author whose work has been edited by the American standard for spelling and grammar would be like watching Downton Abbey with American voice overs. Why bother?


Actually, they're not at all alike. You don't read "Downton Abbey," you hear it, and you don't know or care how the words in the script happen to be spelled. When Hercule Poirot speaks with a French accent, his part isn't phonetically spelled to sound French; it's in ordinary English, and the actor provides the French accent out of his own knowledge and technique, with perhaps some help from a coach. Similarly a British accent when the drama calls for it.

Here's why bother. In narrative and expository prose (poetry is a different issue), authors spell words as comes naturally to them and their presumed readers. Surely they don't intend to attract readers' attention to the spelling as such, distracting them from the story. British authors such as George Orwell doubtless want all their readers to respond similarly, including Americans whom they hope will buy their books. Normalizing to American spelling and punctuation for "Animal Farm" and "1984" helps make this happen. Not doing it makes a fetish of what publishers and textual scholars significantly call "incidentals," at the expense of substance, and pointlessly makes the writing harder to read.

This is surely a trivial matter compared with translation into another language, which publishers routinely do. Neither a British nor an American house would publish Umberto Eco's novel as "Il nome della rosa," in Italian. And if they did, we wouldn't buy it because we, or at least I, wouldn't be able to read it.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

John F said:


> Normalizing to American spelling and punctuation for "Animal Farm" and "1984" helps make this happen. Not doing it makes a fetish of what publishers and textual scholars significantly call "incidentals," at the expense of substance, and pointlessly makes the writing harder to read.


I contend that - for me - American English is anywhere close to "normal". If my texts get translated, or rather disimproved, into American English, then they haven't been "normalised". Depending on which genre we're talking here, I place importance on every single word, on every nuance and on every pronunciation. There's a reason why I prefer flat over apartment, boot over trunk, or pavement and footway over sidewalk. There's also a reason why I place my punctuation where I do, and why I don't want it done differently.

If, by the way, you are incapable of "hearing" punctuation, spelling and choice of words while reading BE vs. AE, then I'm rather sorry for you. It's something only exercise and empathy can change.

That British books have been harmed, lessened and even downgraded by being "translated" into American English, have lost their tone and voice, isn't an idea I've come up with first. You seem to be unaware of that. May I point out that this was rather evident with the Harry Potter books? They certainly aren't the pinnacle of literature. Still, it was so obvious that even American readers went out of their way to acquire the original British versions.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

John F said:


> Actually, they're not at all alike. You don't read "Downton Abbey," you hear it, and you don't know or care how the words in the script happen to be spelled.


I _hear_ what I am reading. When I read a book by a British author, in its original format, I hear that British accent in my head. Change it to an Americanized version, and it loses that. For me, anyway. It loses some of the allure. It becomes a different experience.



John F said:


> This is surely a trivial matter compared with translation into another language, which publishers routinely do. Neither a British nor an American house would publish Umberto Eco's novel as "Il nome della rosa," in Italian. And if they did, we wouldn't buy it because we, or at least I, wouldn't be able to read it.


That's not a comparison. You are talking about two completely different languages. Of course it would need to be translated for most English speaking readers. That's not at all the same thing I was talking about. There are differences between British English and American English, but it's still English, and American readers can still read and understand a book written by a British author. Some American readers may not know that the British spell things differently, but they don't need a translator to help them understand the story.

Yet, I suspect there are American readers, who also speak Italian, who have read both versions of Eco's novel. I personally know a few American readers who have read the original version of Les Miserables. They did it because things get lost in translation and reading it in its original French was a completely different experience.


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

vlmain said:


> Some American readers may not know that the British spell things differently, but they don't need a translator to help them understand the story.


This is what I'd hoped and for the most part it's true, except for those who seem to find it a turn-off. For example, "Great story but the British spelling ruined it." 
Have since decided to include a disclaimer, fingers crossed somebody reads it!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

CraigInOregon said:


> "catswallop"


Never heard of this one, do you mean "Codswallop?"


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## John F (May 19, 2014)

vlmain said:


> That's not a comparison. You are talking about two completely different languages. Of course it would need to be translated for most English speaking readers.


It's relevant, because in both cases the "sanctity" of the author's original down to the last minute detail is not observed, for the benefit of ordinary, average readers in other countries, and for the author's sales. 

I'm talking from the perspective of a former editor for two American book publishers (now retired). What I've described is what happens and why it happens. Of course you are entitled to see things your way - and if this kind of thing matters so much to you, to order your books from England. (Though you may not be able to do that with Kindle books.) But it's a safe bet that if you're an American, you've been reading Americanized editions of British (and Canadian and Australian) books all your life, and I don't suppose you've even noticed it.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

I have an American proofreader who lets me know if I have any glaring words that the US market wouldst understand. I don't mind tweaking grammar slightly if it still reads right here as well


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

John F said:


> But it's a safe bet that if you're an American, you've been reading Americanized editions of British (and Canadian and Australian) books all your life, and I don't suppose you've even noticed it.


I take it you noticed that you're in a forum of - mainly - self-publishing and indie-published authors/readers who're reading ebooks commonly edited to the expectations of their authors or small presses? What may have been relevant for the trad publications you edited is irrelevant for people having a choice.

Additionally I can affirm that quite a few of my American friends do order books from the UK. With the various Harry Potters, Neil Gaimans and Terry Pratchetts, not to speak of Scottish and English crime writers, this hasn't been the spleen of a few individualists.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Evenstar said:


> Never heard of this one, do you mean "Codswallop?"


Guilty.

I plead exhaustion.  LOL


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## Susan Alison (Jul 1, 2011)

CraigInOregon said:


> "catswallop"
> 
> "brain *******" (NOT what you think...nothing lifestylish, just MEATBALLS WRAPPED IN INTESTINES AND SERVED WITH GRAVY)
> 
> ...


This wonker is very pleased to adopt catswallop instead of codswallop - of course I won't use it around my feline-loving friends, but I think it gives a much better, altogether furry-and-clawy vibe. Yeah! Thank you for that!

I will leave on your sidewalk, and possibly in your pocketbook, too, the marmite and the ******* - *shudders* - you're welcome!

I have equally intolerant UK friends who won't even read American authors because of the language they use. (You can take that use of 'language' either way.) I would lose enormous swathes of favourite books if I were to stop reading US writers. Still - I suppose at least if they won't even read them, then they're not going to leave reviews. Of any sort. So maybe it's a good thing.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

I'm a UK author. My novel is set in the UK and features British detectives hunting a killer in the UK. There's only one American. And he's a bit of a tosser  (albeit with good intentions). It is written in British-ese.

A while ago, however, I wrote a novel under a pen name featuring an American detective (not a tosser) set in America with all American characters. I wrote this in American-ese and employed and American proof-reader to ensure any Britishisms were banished.

It just makes sense to do it that way IMO.

I think an all-American cast written in British-ese (and vice versa) would jar quite badly.

That said, if - in some dream world - my work takes off spectacularly and it starts to attract those sorts of comments I am not beneath hiring someone to translate it to Americanese if it helps over there.

_edited to conform with Forum Decorum -- no promotion in the WC, thanks. --Ann_


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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

Oh, and it's Brain's ******* - Brain and Co being the manufacturer. not what they are made of.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Lyndawrites said:


> Oh, and it's Brain's ******* - Brain and Co being the manufacturer. not what they are made of.


So, 'made not born' is your counter-argument? A controversial choice... LOL

Fans of "minced pork liver and heart, wrapped in bacon, with onion and breadcrumbs" will possibly be surprised.

*shudders*

Liver and heart, wrapped in bacon? No wonder your dentistry is the envy of no one, England!  I'm not sure I'd be less appetized if it were a tobacco-based dish!


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Craig, you'd be surprised, as ******* are very tasty. As are black pudding (blood) and haggis (who knows?!).

And you haven't lived if you haven't tasted spotted dick or toad in the hole.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

hardnutt said:


> And you haven't lived if you haven't tasted spotted dick or toad in the hole.


We had spotted dick once a while at school when I was a kid (in England).
We called it "dead fly pie."
Still ate it though.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Flay Otters said:


> We had spotted dick once a while at school when I was a kid (in England).
> We called it "dead fly pie."
> Still ate it though.


Lovely with runny custard.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

hardnutt said:


> Lovely with runny custard.


That custard _was_ awfully runny - and pale. Not the good, thick yellow stuff my mother made.
Such memories of school dinners.


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## ScarlettParrish (Nov 23, 2014)

I used to write for Loose Id and they were BIG on changing things to suit American readers. They'd say "Our readers won't understand such-and-such." They weren't interested in me saying my characters aren't American, so why should they speak as if they are? Too, they were assuming all of their readers were American.

My attitude is, if you don't know what a specific word means, the context should make it clear. And you've learned a new word.

Totally Bound used to get dinged in reviews a lot for typos and errors which were actually Britishisms, so now they've started releasing two versions of each book, the other being for American readers, which disappoints me. We don't get special Britbooks from the U.S. so why should we pander to them?

If you don't know what a word means, use a dictionary. It's how most of us learned our mother tongue.

Then again, you get certain authors (Josephine Myles, SA Meade), who are praised for the very Britishness of their novels, and rightly so.

I'm just going to carry on writing my characters as my own nationality. If readers don't like it? They can buy someone else's books. But it just boggles my mind that readers would object to the fact different countries have different dialects.


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## ScarlettParrish (Nov 23, 2014)

vlmain said:


> It's funny, here in the NW, I would associate _wicked funny, wicked good, _ etc., with the latest trend in slang. Wickedly funny, wickedly good, etc., sounds more British to me. As far as Scottish lingo goes, that, too, must be a regional thing, because my family is Scottish and I would never have associated _wicked good_ with the Scots. I suppose it depends on which region of Scotland they came from originally and what part of the US they landed in. Our language has become a beautiful hodgepodge over the centuries.


I've never heard _anyone_ say "Wicked good." It doesn't sound Scottish at all.

(And just to clarify, Scottish _is_ British, being as we are, still part of Britain, post-referendum. A lot of people use English and British interchangeably, when they are not the same thing.)


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

ScarlettParrish said:


> (And just to clarify, Scottish _is_ British, being as we are, still part of Britain, post-referendum. A lot of people use English and British interchangeably, when they are not the same thing.)


Indeed. When I first set foot in the New World (back in the 1790s) I was at great pains to explain the difference (and similarity) between England (Scotland, Wales), Great Britain, and the United Kingdom.
Sadly, the glazed looks and shrugs have caused me to cease my efforts.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

Don't look at me. I read so much British fiction as a child that I could hardly believe it when my spelling teacher insisted the correct spelling for the word was color.  I can still remember how shocked I was.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Carol (was Dara) said:


> Because they don't know it is UK spelling and grammar. They see something they've never encountered before and assume it's a typo or misspelling.


Yeah, I know. For instance, my sister was reading one of my books and I mentioned "hiccoughing." It's a perfectly legitimate way to spell "hiccuping" but, since she had never seen that word before, she thought that it was misspelled. She then said that I should change it because many readers would assume that that way that I spelled it was wrong. I changed it for that reason alone.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

metwo said:


> Don't look at me. I read so much British fiction as a child that I could hardly believe it when my spelling teacher insisted the correct spelling for the word was color.  I can still remember how shocked I was.


This thread has been an eye opener for me. I always thought most people knew there was a difference. Maybe it's a regional thing. I grew up in a state that borders Canada, so maybe I was exposed to the different spellings more than others who didn't.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

ScarlettParrish said:


> And just to clarify, Scottish _is_ British, being as we are, still part of Britain, post-referendum. A lot of people use English and British interchangeably, when they are not the same thing.


I'm forever reminding people that 'England' isn't a synonym for 'Britain'. I tell them I'm both Welsh and British, but I'm not English. It often falls on deaf ears.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Sam Kates said:


> I'm forever reminding people that 'England' isn't a synonym for 'Britain'. I tell them I'm both Welsh and British, but I'm not English. It often falls on deaf ears.


I wonder why so many have a problem with that. No one seems to have trouble understanding the difference between Germany and Europe--except for maybe Miss America's Map Girl:


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

vlmain said:


> I wonder why so many have a problem with that. No one seems to have trouble understanding the difference between Germany and Europe--except for maybe Miss America's Map Girl:


Beats the heck out of me. The historical reasons are fairly complex, but the simplistic position is: Britain = England, Scotland and Wales. UK = Britain + N. Ireland.

Ooh - that clip is painful.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Sam Kates said:


> Beats the heck out of me. The historical reasons are fairly complex, but the simplistic position is: Britain = England, Scotland and Wales. UK = Britain + N. Ireland.
> 
> Ooh - that clip is painful.


The good news is that it's only the U.S. Americans who have trouble with it. All the other Americans understand, perfectly.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

vlmain said:


> The good news is that it's only the U.S. Americans who have trouble with it. All the other Americans understand, perfectly.


Touche.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Tearing my hair out lately. I'm a UK author and all of my books are written in UK English and professionally edited/proofed etc but I am constantly getting one-starred on .com for 'grammar errors'. We Brits happily tolerate Americanisms and recognise/appreciate the differences, so I cant understand why this bothers so many US readers to the level that they can't get past the language? Is it really that bothersome?


When in Rome? I suggest you have an American edition as well as a Brit edition.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Sam Kates said:


> I'm forever reminding people that 'England' isn't a synonym for 'Britain'. I tell them I'm both Welsh and British, but I'm not English. It often falls on deaf ears.


I think most welsh people forget that Wales is not in fact a Country, it is a Principality


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

DarlaBooks said:


> When in Rome? I suggest you have an American edition as well as a Brit edition.


I actually tried to do this when I first published. Amazon doesn't allow it


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

DarlaBooks said:


> When in Rome? I suggest you have an American edition as well as a Brit edition.


I think the point of the OP was that if we Brits can put up with/understand/appreciate American literature in its original form, why can't Americans (as in US citizens) put up with, etc ours?


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Evenstar said:


> I think most welsh people forget that Wales is not in fact a Country, it is a Principality


Not sure quite what point you're making. Wales is as much of a country as England or Scotland. The sovereign state is the UK.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Thread is making me nervous. I'm writing a book which contains Lee Harvey Oswald's Russian wife posting on an imaginary social media account. She knew very little English at the time of JFK's assassination and her spelling and grammar would have been extremely bad.

Will I get panned for this if I construct her posts with copious spelling and grammar errors as I imagine she would have done?


Philip


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Sam Kates said:


> I think the point of the OP was that if we Brits can put up with/understand/appreciate American literature in its original form, why can't Americans (as in US citizens) put up with, etc ours?


Yes. And I think the answer is that most Americans simply aren't exposed to it. US books/media/culture is exported with far more frequency than any foreign media, etc is imported.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Monique said:


> Yes. And I think the answer is that most Americans simply aren't exposed to it. US books/media/culture is exported with far more frequency than any foreign media, etc is imported.


Is the answer, then, that the US is too insular and less open to outside influences? Looking from the outside, we might perceive this to be so in some aspects of life (prime example: sport), but in the arts? The US embraced The Beatles - its students study Shakespeare (don't they?) - many of my American online friends enjoy TV programmes (shows) like Dr Who and Downton Abbey. Difficult to see why that tolerance of a different culture doesn't extend to the modern written word.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Sam Kates said:


> Is the answer, then, that the US is too insular and less open to outside influences? Looking from the outside, we might perceive this to be so in some aspects of life (prime example: sport), but in the arts? The US embraced The Beatles - its students study Shakespeare (don't they?) - many of my American online friends enjoy TV programmes (shows) like Dr Who and Downton Abbey. Difficult to see why that tolerance of a different culture doesn't extend to the modern written word.


And at least one town has a Globe Theater.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Sam Kates said:


> Is the answer, then, that the US is too insular and less open to outside influences? Looking from the outside, we might perceive this to be so in some aspects of life (prime example: sport), but in the arts? The US embraced The Beatles - its students study Shakespeare (don't they?) - many of my American online friends enjoy TV programmes (shows) like Dr Who and Downton Abbey. Difficult to see why that tolerance of a different culture doesn't extend to the modern written word.


There are 7 million people in NYC alone.
Some of them care about the difference between American and British dialects.
Some of them don't care.
Some of them are just trying to figure out how to read the street signs.

So making generalizations about Americans, or Englishman, or Welsh people or Scots or Germans or Italians (all of whom live in NYC) always strikes me as funny.

Some people will read a book and think that British spelling is fine.
Some will read it and think it looks funny but move on with their reading.
Some will read it and think it looks funny and must be wrong.
Some will leave a review stating there are typos.

There are all kinds of people in the world, and all kinds of things to care about. 
Accept the things you can't change, change things you can (if you want to) and don't stress.

Live is too short for all the fun things you have to do.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Sam Kates said:


> Is the answer, then, that the US is too insular and less open to outside influences? Looking from the outside, we might perceive this to be so in some aspects of life (prime example: sport), but in the arts? The US embraced The Beatles - its students study Shakespeare (don't they?) - many of my American online friends enjoy TV programmes (shows) like Dr Who and Downton Abbey. Difficult to see why that tolerance of a different culture doesn't extend to the modern written word.


Yes, we are insular. There are lots of reasons for it, not the least of which is geography. But, reasons aside, we generally are. There are some exceptions like Dr. Who and Downton Abbey, but they are only a few in a vast sea of American culture and probably not embraced by anything close to the majority. Heck, the middle of our country is insular (in many ways) from the coasts.

I don't think American culture isn't open. We welcome it and then subsume it to the point that it's no longer its native whatever but an American version of it.


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## Bluebonnet (Dec 15, 2013)

Philip Gibson said:


> Thread is making me nervous. I'm writing a book which contains Lee Harvey Oswald's Russian wife posting on an imaginary social media account. She knew very little English at the time of JFK's assassination and her spelling and grammar would have been extremely bad.
> 
> Will I get panned for this if I construct her posts with copious spelling and grammar errors as I imagine she would have done?
> 
> Philip


I don't understand. JFK was assassinated in 1963. No Internet (for the public) back then, therefore no social media. How would Marina Oswald get the idea for an imaginary social media account in 1963? Or are you writing a fantasy/science fiction story and using Marina as a character?

To answer your question, in my opinion, yes, it would be all right to include spelling and grammar errors in dialogue/diaries/social media posts/text messages, etc., of any character.

ETA: Philip, I'm sorry, please disregard my first paragraph about the Internet. I just looked at the books in your sig and realized your stories are "what if" plots where you speculate about how historical events might have unfolded if there had been modern social media available.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Bluebonnet said:


> I don't understand. JFK was assassinated in 1963. No Internet (for the public) back then, therefore no social media. How would Marina Oswald get the idea for an imaginary social media account in 1963? Or are you writing a fantasy/science fiction story and using Marina as a character?
> 
> To answer your question, in my opinion, yes, it would be all right to include spelling and grammar errors in dialogue/diaries/social media posts/text messages, etc., of a character.


All his books are history presented in social media format. 
He literally transcribed a ton of dialog from Nasa and the media to do the Houston books.
It is cool because you always know who is speaking.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Monique said:


> Yes, we are insular. There are lots of reasons for it, not the least of which is geography. But, reasons aside, we generally are. There are some exceptions like Dr. Who and Downton Abbey, but they are only a few in a vast sea of American culture and probably not embraced by anything close to the majority. Heck, the middle of our country is insular (in many ways) from the coasts.
> 
> *I don't think American culture isn't open. We welcome it and then subsume it to the point that it's no longer its native whatever but an American version of it.*


What Monique said.

We even have a term for this phenomenon: the US is a 'melting pot'.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Bluebonnet said:


> To answer your question, in my opinion, yes, it would be all right to include spelling and grammar errors in dialogue/diaries/social media posts/text messages, etc., of any character.


Thanks. But my concern, after pondering this thread, is that some native users of English (not only Americans) will think that Marina Oswald's poor English is my poor English and slam me for it.

I have lived abroad most of my life as a teacher of English and am well-versed in the errors non-native users make when speaking and writing English. I believe I can do a very credible job of presenting how Marina would have expressed herself.

I'm just a bit fearful of the reaction some might have to it, since there will doubtless be some who don't get the fact that I am writing it in Marina's voice, and not my own.

Philip


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Philip... don't worry about that.  You have a different set of readers.  If you make Marina talk properly,  it will look like you didn't do your research.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

The annoyance between American and British readers and writers can sometimes (albeit rarely) work both ways. In Thailand, I had a British friend who had bought his 4-year-old son an ABC picture book and was absolutely appalled that, even though the book had only 26 words, the very first word was spelled incorrectly.

The book had 'axe' spelled as 'ax' on the first page.

My friend couldn't understand how the publishers could have been so careless.


Philip


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Philip... don't worry about that. You have a different set of readers. If you make Marina talk properly, it will look like you didn't do your research.


Thanks for that.

Since the book is a "What if... ?" anyway, there could be a workaround. I could posit that Marina Oswald had her American friend, Janet, type out her posts for her due to her own poor English.

Not gonna do that though; it'll be much more interesting and credible to present her words as I think she would present them herself.

Publish and be damned, I say and never mind the naysayers.

Philip


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Philip Gibson said:


> The annoyance between American and British readers and writers can sometimes (albeit rarely) work both ways. In Thailand, I had a British friend who had bought his 4-year-old son an ABC picture book and was absolutely appalled that, even though the book had only 26 words, the very first word was spelled incorrectly.
> 
> The book had 'axe' spelled as 'ax' on the first page.
> 
> ...


Ax is spelled correctly.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> Ax is spelled correctly.


No, it's not. 1-star.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

telracs said:


> There are 7 million people in NYC alone.
> Some of them care about the difference between American and British dialects.
> Some of them don't care.
> Some of them are just trying to figure out how to read the street signs.
> ...


Yes to all that. I have followed this thread with interest because I have been fascinated with American culture since a teenager (Stephen King has a lot to answer for). Not stressing, honestly. Genuinely curious about the answer (if there is one).


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Monique said:


> Yes, we are insular. There are lots of reasons for it, not the least of which is geography. But, reasons aside, we generally are. There are some exceptions like Dr. Who and Downton Abbey, but they are only a few in a vast sea of American culture and probably not embraced by anything close to the majority. Heck, the middle of our country is insular (in many ways) from the coasts.
> 
> I don't think American culture isn't open. We welcome it and then subsume it to the point that it's no longer its native whatever but an American version of it.


I know someone who thinks pizza is an American invention. When I told her it originates in Italy I don't think she believed me.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Sam Kates said:


> I know someone who thinks pizza is an American invention. When I told her it originates in Italy I don't think she believed me.


LOL. I believe that.

Also, anecdotally, I have two sets of friends who just got back from Italy. (They are unrelated and traveled independently.) Their one complaint? The food. They all believe that American Italian is far superior to Italian Italian.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Monique said:


> LOL. I believe that.
> 
> Also, anecdotally, I have two sets of friends who just got back from Italy. (They are unrelated and traveled independently.) Their one complaint? The food. They all believe that American Italian is far superior to Italian Italian.


Here's another one, quite true. I (and my wife, daughters and brother0 went to New York City two years ago with my parents for their golden wedding anniversary. We stayed in Little Italy, not far from Chinatown. My dad, who has always expressed distaste for 'foreign food', astonished us all by stating that he wanted to go for a Chinese meal. So we went and he professed to thoroughly enjoy the food, although to us it wasn't so different to the Chinese food we can get on our doorstep. Since he still refuses to eat Chinese food at home, we don't know whether he believes American Chinese food to be superior to Welsh Chinese food...

There's an apt saying from the north of England: there's nowt as queer as folk. (P.S. I love my dad.)


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Ax is spelled correctly.


Not if you are British.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Philip


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Yes


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Monique said:


> LOL. I believe that.
> 
> Also, anecdotally, I have two sets of friends who just got back from Italy. (They are unrelated and traveled independently.) Their one complaint? The food. They all believe that American Italian is far superior to Italian Italian.


I ran into such people in the US as well.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

I'd say couch or sofa, apartment or flat (although usually a flat is one storey building). 

Yes but in the US it would be  single STORY building and not "storey"

At the end of the day it is Amazon who is at fault. At upload there is only "English" as choice of language. The poor reader has no idea.


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## Donnarich (May 7, 2014)

As an American and a proofreader, I find the UK spelling confusing somewhat and I can only imagine what other readers think when the majority tend to lean towards the US spelling.  My eyes automatically stop when I seen defence and realise and favour and colour etc. because it's not how we spell it.  Idioms are also a conundrum for many because we don't get ones like "took a piss" etc. I have authors asking me to leave the spelling but correct the idioms.  If you're getting reviews about typos, the spelling maybe the real culprit. There's nothing wrong with using UK spelling, but if you want to appeal to the masses, perhaps the US spelling would be a better choice, just sayin


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

We put prominently placed disclaimers in all of our UK English books and don't get any review problems. Also, it is a way of educating those readers who are unaware of different forms of the language. 

If people can't get past the fact that English is not just American English, we are happy for them to not buy our books. However, what can really  damage a book's chances of success from a marketing standpoint is one star, 'full of typos' reviews. Happily, the disclaimers stop these. 

Just sayin'. 

Edited to add: British idioms are left alone if we feel they can be understood in the context of the story/narrative/dialogue.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Sam Kates said:


> Not sure quite what point you're making. Wales is as much of a country as England or Scotland. The sovereign state is the UK.


I wasn't making any point, I was making a joke. I'm surprised you haven't been on the end of _Wales is a Principality_ before. I'm Welsh through and through, I figured you would get it... but nevermind


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Evenstar said:


> I wasn't making any point, I was making a joke. I'm surprised you haven't been on the end of _Wales is a Principality_ before. I'm Welsh through and through, I figured you would get it... but nevermind


Oops! Must have had my sense of humour dial turned down. Sorry!


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