# Did you do better or worse with KU2? (POLL)



## Sara Evans (Aug 7, 2015)

Now that KU2 payouts have been announced at *$.005779* per page read, are you better or worse off?

And if so, why do you think?

Don't forget to mention what type of books you primarily write: short serials, children's, non-fiction, full-length novels, etc...


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Worse, but expected.
My erotica pen name hasn't had a release out in months. Those were 5K-9K shorts.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

A lot better. More than double.
I write full-length novels.


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## ccasey (Feb 7, 2013)

Way, way worse but I'm OK with that.

Mine are extremely short reference pieces and I _knew _that the previous payout was tilted very unfairly in my favor. I'm glad that novel writers are getting an improved payout because I am also an avid reader and KU subscriber; I want to see more books available from great authors.

I never considered pulling my short reference works from KU. I believe that all those borrows boost the ratings and make my booklets more visible to everybody, including the non-subscribers who purchase them, which is now the main source of income. I don't even look at the borrows any more.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Much worse. Lol, Amazon is now my fourth highest vendor. It was passed up by BN last much. Bad showing by Amazon.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

My book in KU is a 29k novella. About 30% less on KU, so overall about 15% lower overall. It _is_ only a novella. I don't have a problem with that. My next book is a novel, should be 60k and if it follows a similar trajectory, KU2 will be a winner for me on that book by about 20%.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Way, way better, but that's because I joined Select for the first time last month.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I only got in the last week of July, but since I put my lowest selling books in Select, I'm definitely doing better. Basically, I'm using KU2 to revive my older books. Those that are still selling wide will stay wide.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Sara Evans said:


> Now that KU2 payouts have been announced at *$.005779* per page read, are you better or worse off?
> 
> And if so, why do you think?
> 
> Don't forget to mention what type of books you primarily write: short serials, children's, non-fiction, full-length novels, etc...


Wasn't expecting it till Monday, and I am having a problem with the maths, but price wise I think it is about the same.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> Way, way better, but that's because I joined Select for the first time last month.


I've been with select most of the way through. I am still puzzled as to how to work it out, but I'll take others' word for it.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

Down 70 percent from June.


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## karynlawrence (Jan 6, 2015)

Way, way better-- approximately twice what I did last month. I write full length novels.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Doglover said:


> I've been with select most of the way through. I am still puzzled as to how to work it out, but I'll take others' word for it.


Multiply total pages read by 0.005779 to get the dollar figure, yes?


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## Clare W (Aug 13, 2015)

Compared to what I used to get paid for borrows, I'm getting about the same for pages read in KU2. I write non-fiction and my books are priced at $2.99 and $3.99. But one important point is that I'm talking relatively low numbers. I sell a lot more than were ever borrowed / paid on a per-page basis. For July my KU2 income was 1/7 of the total income (while in June it was 1/5 of total income).

Clare


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## Clare W (Aug 13, 2015)

> Multiply total pages read by 0.005779 to get the dollar figure, yes?


Even easier - go to the prior months royalties in your reports and scroll to the right to see what they paid you!

Clare


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

I estimate KU2 cost me about $75 last month versus what I would've earned in KU1.  This month it'll be much worse.  Most of what I have in KU is short romance.


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

Way, way better - I write epic fantasy novels (l-o-n-g).


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## Jerry Patterson (Nov 20, 2013)

Short romances.  KU down from $2200 to around $500.


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## bobfrost (Sep 29, 2013)

I did about the same. Switched hard to novels as soon as the announcement hit in June. With a boatload of effort, I made roughly the same kind of money I've been averaging (around the 30k mark). I thought KU 2.0 would spell disaster for me, and it did spell disaster for almost my entire back catalog, but at the end of the day hard work and determination (and maximizing the pay-plan) won the battle and kept me afloat. If things stay similar with the per-page rate going forward, I'll go UP in August.


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## Mxz (Jan 17, 2015)

A lot worse.  Between my pen names I have a novel, short stories, and novellas.  The most I got for one short story is $0.15 per read.  I had to put my novel in to try and make more (I wish I had put it in before).  My sales now are about 20% of what I had before.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

I think know is when we'll see the mass exodus... Or not


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## RyanAndrewKinder (Dec 14, 2014)

Way, way worse.

My book is a nonfiction book of writing prompts. It is not meant to be read through in one sitting so this really stings. For July I am slated to earn $12.62 from page reads. The previous months? I averaged about $100-150 from book lends, sometimes higher.

I have an important decision to make because my kdp enrollment ends again tomorrow. Go wide or stick with it. I'm thinking the former. Amazon doesn't care about reference books with this move.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Mitns said:


> A lot worse. Between my pen names I have a novel, short stories, and novellas. The most I got for one short story is $0.15 per read. I had to put my novel in to try and make more (I wish I had put it in before). My sales now are about 20% of what I had before.


My very short story made 0.07 cents! But that's ok; it is only one.

What I wish to know is, for people who have been with book report since before this, now we know the amount we are getting per page read, will book report include those number in its ka ching?


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Way, way better. I write 75-80K word mysteries and have 3 in KU. I've been in Select for over a year.


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## Kimberly Van Meter (Apr 22, 2011)

I was one of the few who did better. KU1 killed me; KU2 gave me new life. I'm heartbroken for the people on the opposite side of the spectrum. I truly know how devastating it is to have your income cut in half or worse.

Kim


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

I think I have a mixed package; I have $4 for one book which would have been $1.35, then the same for some shorter books. It all adds up very nicely, so I'm not complaining.


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## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

much much better


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## Mackenzie Morgan (Dec 3, 2010)

PaulineMRoss said:


> Way, way better - I write epic fantasy novels (l-o-n-g).


Same here.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

I did much much better but that's because I had a BB at the end of June and another in July, plus a new release last day of the month. With regard to the new pricing scheme, my books are all over the place, KENPC-wise, so I think the same amount of reads would have meant just about the same income, or a slight dip. I just had a lot more eyeballs on my work, and added something to my catalogue.


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## Sara Evans (Aug 7, 2015)

RyanAndrewKinder said:


> Way, way worse.
> 
> My book is a nonfiction book of writing prompts. It is not meant to be read through in one sitting so this really stings. For July I am slated to earn $12.62 from page reads. The previous months? I averaged about $100-150 from book lends, sometimes higher.
> 
> I have an important decision to make because my kdp enrollment ends again tomorrow. Go wide or stick with it. I'm thinking the former. Amazon doesn't care about reference books with this move.


Seeing such a sharp contrast, I looked over you book and sales numbers. Might I make a suggestion?

According to the TOC the prompts are listed by number. There's really no reason for me as an author to move deeper into your book if I've already found a prompt at the beginning that has spurred inspiration. If you categorized the prompts into subjects, an author would be more likely to flip through to that section of the book. I would be willing to bet that you would see an increase in pages read...especially if you had a final chapter that read "Saved the Best for Last."


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## Ceteris Paribus (Jul 31, 2015)

I did slightly worse than in June, but then June was my best month ever with a successful new title coming out. 
I still made more than enough in July for all my bills and living expenses, although the KENP allotments of my romance novels are rather stingy, especially for the last one (a mere 310 for some 64 000 words). I had not quite 300 000 KENP in July, but it looks I shall do rather better in August. Staying in KU for the time being.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

My 622 KENPC book earned me $3.60 as against a sale at $2.99 or a borrow at $1.35.


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## Indiecognito (May 19, 2014)

Worse, but I'm doing fine so I won't howl about it. I feel bad for those hit so hard that they've had to rethink their lives. And I still don't like the month-to-month uncertainty of payouts. That is the primary reason that I'm taking a lot wide.


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## doolittle03 (Feb 13, 2015)

Worse by $62.24 (CAD), but I think there's hope to do better eventually. Book length is 90K to 18K. The blue line doesn't mean anything to me. The bookkeeper in me would love to have a flat rate for a borrow regardless of length but I'll play the hand I'm dealt.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Indiecognito said:


> And I still don't like the month-to-month uncertainty of payouts. That is the primary reason that I'm taking a lot wide.


Yeah, it is pretty weaselly behaviour by Amazon and is one of the reasons I steered clear of Select for so long. For now I've got round the problem by setting the KENPC to 0 on Book Report so I don't think about borrow amounts.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

Way, way worse...


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> My 622 KENPC book earned me $3.60 as against a sale at $2.99 or a borrow at $1.35.


Anyone selling 600 page novels for 2.99 and locked in the old KU will of course be doing much, much better in KU2. That's because in the old KU, you were getting ridiculously ripped off! But thanks to KU2, now everyone gets ripped off.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Anyone selling 600 page novels for 2.99 and locked in the old KU will of course be doing much, much better in KU2. That's because in the old KU, you were getting ridiculously ripped off! But thanks to KU2, now everyone gets ripped off.


Apart from those selling 600 page novels for 2.99, of course.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> Way, way better, but that's because I joined Select for the first time last month.


Same here. I put my new romance series in mid-July. If I'm doing my math right, that's a very nice bonus! (Adding the total KENP's x .005779)


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Cool, Stacy! I like your new photo, by the way.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Anyone selling 600 page novels for 2.99 and locked in the old KU will of course be doing much, much better in KU2. That's because in the old KU, you were getting ridiculously ripped off! But thanks to KU2, now everyone gets ripped off.


But I'm not getting ripped off - am I ?


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

Lydniz said:


> Apart from those selling 600 page novels for 2.99, of course.


Under the old system these authors could have been advised to rewrite to shorter lengths and release in installments. They would have made a HELL of a lot more money. Most folks already figured that out and either did that or didn't get into KU in the first place. Those who just lobbed it in KU with that price point and page count probably weren't selling that well and were desperate for any measure to work.

KU1 paid a lot better by the page for any writer willing to release shorter works. I'm sure most sensible writers were willing. Thus, the amount of one's writing has reduced for everyone. As far as KU is concerned anyway.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

You're getting a bonus over a sale- definitely not ripped off. 

And clearly, everyone isn't getting ripped off in KU2.  The only ones getting "ripped off" or "negatively impacted" are people who write short works and the people who tailored their strategy to the $1.30 payout for a browse of the first few pages.  And children's authors. That certainly isn't everyone, although I'm sure some people feel like they are "everyone."


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Under the old system these authors could have been advised to rewrite to shorter lengths and release in installments. They would have made a HELL of a lot more money. Most folks already figured that out and either did that or didn't get into KU in the first place. Those who just lobbed it in KU with that price point and page count probably weren't selling that well and were desperate for any measure to work.
> 
> KU1 paid a lot better by the page for any writer willing to release shorter works. I'm sure most sensible writers were willing. Thus, the amount of one's writing has reduced for everyone. As far as KU is concerned anyway.


I was a fan of a bestselling author - until he/his publisher decided they could earn more by writing the books in installments (can't think of any other reason for doing that). It annoyed me so much that I simply stopped reading that author's books . I'm sure I'm not the only reader who gets annoyed when they find the end of the book is not really THE END.


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## kcmorgan (Jan 9, 2013)

Better. I write under a variety of lengths, genres and names. About a week into KU2 I pulled my shorts and stuck in a novel. Though now I'm stuck with a serial that doesn't really have a decent price point. Over a month since KU2 and I'm still trying to decide what to do with it.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Under the old system these authors could have been advised to rewrite to shorter lengths and release in installments. They would have made a HELL of a lot more money.


You could have advised me to do that till you were blue in the face and I wouldn't have done it, even if it meant I could be sitting here right now in gold underwear with diamond-encrusted tassels. I write what I write. It's my choice. Nobody is ripping me off.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Anyone selling 600 page novels for 2.99 and locked in the old KU will of course be doing much, much better in KU2. That's because in the old KU, you were getting ridiculously ripped off! But thanks to KU2, now everyone gets ripped off.


Everyone? Did you skip over all the posts declaring they have done much better out of the new system?


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> Cool, Stacy! I like your new photo, by the way.


Thank you!


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## Mip7 (Mar 3, 2013)

Way, way better -- full length novels -- I just checked my royalties and was shocked, first 5-figure month! That's double my best past month. Most was from KENPC.

I released a new work in late June and it did pretty good, ranked in the 600's for a week or so (down to around 2,000) now.

Suddenly expensive book promos make a lot more sense for me. 

And man -- I need to produce faster.


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## LittleFox (Jan 3, 2015)

Much, much worse. I was writing short erom serials and full length UF novels (two separate names). I went from 4 digits a month down to 2 this month. It's not unexpected, I've shifted focus onto other streams of income while I build up my UF instead. I completely dropped the erom, it's not worth the effort any more.


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## kcmorgan (Jan 9, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Under the old system these authors could have been advised to rewrite to shorter lengths and release in installments. They would have made a HELL of a lot more money. Most folks already figured that out and either did that or didn't get into KU in the first place. Those who just lobbed it in KU with that price point and page count probably weren't selling that well and were desperate for any measure to work.
> 
> KU1 paid a lot better by the page for any writer willing to release shorter works. I'm sure most sensible writers were willing. Thus, the amount of one's writing has reduced for everyone. As far as KU is concerned anyway.


What you're forgetting is the pool is set regardless of number of sales. So even if every novel writer broke their books up by chapter, the payout overall (across all books in the pool) wouldn't have increased, instead people would have just gotten like 70 cents a book instead of 1.35 and Amazon would have had a zillion extra "books" on their site because of it.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

MyraScott said:


> You're getting a bonus over a sale- definitely not ripped off.
> 
> And clearly, everyone isn't getting ripped off in KU2. The only ones getting "ripped off" or "negatively impacted" are people who write short works and the people who tailored their strategy to the $1.30 payout for a browse of the first few pages. And children's authors. That certainly isn't everyone, although I'm sure some people feel like they are "everyone."


OK but in the old system if you wrote a 100k book and put in KU you got $1.35.

If you wrote TEN 10k books instead you got $13.50

For the exact same amount of writing. 100k book writer was getting ripped off under the old system.

Under the old system, writer had to write 5k or 10k or 15k or 20k or whatever minimum and they'd get their 1.35 royalty for a borrow. Doesn't matter who you are that deal was for everyone.

Now you have to write over 200 pages for that. 20, to 200. Same system for everyone. Your work is worth less.


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## going going gone (Jun 4, 2013)

Better, but I have only one full-length novel in. 

If I can make as much from a rental as a sale, they might convince me to put them all in KU. I just don't make that much elsewhere, and before, my concern was that rentals were undercutting my sales. (Why buy when you can rent? some readers must think this.) If I was getting half as much for a rental as a sale, there was no appeal to KU except for perhaps attracting a few readers. But if I get the same for rental as sale, then it matters not a bit to me which it is, right? So I'll watch another payout and perhaps go all in at Amazon.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

kcmorgan said:


> What you're forgetting is the pool is set regardless of number of sales. So even if every novel writer broke their books up by chapter, the payout overall (across all books in the pool) wouldn't have increased, instead people would have just gotten like 70 cents a book instead of 1.35 and Amazon would have had a zillion extra "books" on their site because of it.


Incorrect. There was pressure on Amazon to keep the payout over 1.30, due to the flack it received after lowering the rate from 1.50 something.


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## kcmorgan (Jan 9, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Incorrect. There was pressure on Amazon to keep the payout over 1.30, due to the flack it received after lowering the rate from 1.50 something.


Considering they did actually change the system, I think my assertion they wouldn't have kept paying 1.35 if everyone chopped up their books to game the system has been more than proven with the existence of KU2.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

kcmorgan said:


> Considering they did actually change the system, I think my assertion they wouldn't have kept paying 1.35 if everyone chopped up their books to game the system has been more than proven with the existence of KU2.


Yeah. That remains to be seen. But the scenario in itself is ridiculous. Only the smart / non-stubborn ones would have cut up or changed strategies.


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## LizB (Oct 25, 2013)

I did way worse. My books are between 50 and 60k, so we aren't talking shorts here trying to "game the system."


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## J.J. Thompson (Aug 10, 2013)

Much better, but I write full length novels at 110K words plus, so that helps.


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## Sara Evans (Aug 7, 2015)

Lydniz said:


> Cool, Stacy! I like your new photo, by the way.


I love the retro 1920's look of your photo. It's beautiful.

How did you do it?


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## Anjasa (Feb 4, 2012)

I lost 74% of my income from June to July. I write short & long, but it was only the shorts selling before now. Novels are my passion but not my income, so now I'm going to have to stop writing fantasy and start writing something else that sells for me.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

My earning have doubled,  with no ads or new titles.
Cozy Mysteries, average 30 chapters
Looking forward to seeing what happens with next months new release.


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## Kathy Clark Author (Dec 18, 2012)

The total  money is a wash.  The readers seem to be reading the books all the way through.  not sure how to evaluate given the two variables changed in July on per book and per page.  My per page estimate did guess high by $0.0002.  Not too bad but value of being a good guesser is zero.


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## Sara Evans (Aug 7, 2015)

Victoria LK said:


> My earning have doubled,  with no ads or new titles.
> Cozy Mysteries, average 30 chapters
> Looking forward to seeing what happens with next months new release.


I love your author puppy picture.


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## Lisa Blackwood (Feb 1, 2015)

PaulineMRoss said:


> Way, way better - I write epic fantasy novels (l-o-n-g).


Me too.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

LizB said:


> I did way worse. My books are between 50 and 60k, so we aren't talking shorts here trying to "game the system."


I don't understand how the change in KU would have hurt you. I have a 60K novel, KENPC at 321. That works out to $1.85 for a full read. Less than I make on a sale, but more than the $1.35 per borrow in the old KU.


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## Sara Evans (Aug 7, 2015)

brkingsolver said:


> I don't understand how the change in KU would have hurt you. I have a 60K novel, KENPC at 321. That works out to $1.85 for a full read. Less than I make on a sale, but more than the $1.35 per borrow in the old KU.


Most books are not read cover to cover. With the old program if a reader quit 12% into the book the author was paid the $1.35. With the new system only books that connect with readers will get a full read through. Here is an article on the subject with data from Kobo.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/10/kobo-survey-books-readers-finish-donna-tartt

Here are some highlights from the article:

Pulitzer Prize winner _The Goldfinch_ - Only 44.4% read
_Twelve Years a Slave_ - Only 28.2% read

_Rotten to The Core_ by Casey Kelleher was the most completed book with 83%

I have seen other studies that place the average read-through-rate around 50%


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

I'm making a lot more than a 1.35 a book now. Way better.


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## LizB (Oct 25, 2013)

brkingsolver said:


> I don't understand how the change in KU would have hurt you. I have a 60K novel, KENPC at 321. That works out to $1.85 for a full read. Less than I make on a sale, but more than the $1.35 per borrow in the old KU.


I think my KENP was off because my 58k novel was 219


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## KinkyWriter (Mar 17, 2015)

Ahh!!!

Now I'm nervous 

I was going to enroll my first erom novellas (40K words each) in KU2 next week but like I feared... I really think KU2 is only mean't for novel length books. They seem to be profiting more than shorter works. 

Yeah, KU2 is great for visibility for the new author like myself but after reading on here it seems I'm better off going wide from the start and consistently publish to gain exposure (that I wouldn't have with KU2).

Ah, fiddle sticks 

Thoughts?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I did better. I was between 'better' and 'way better'. To earn what I did with page reads in July, I would've had to have had about 180 more borrows. Basically, more borrows than I've ever had before--and that's comparing July to June, when June I was only two weeks past a really successful BookBub ad for a free book and had more borrows than I've ever had before. I'm pretty sure July's total number of borrows would have been lower if it was tallied the old way. Also, I had goofed in July and accidentally took four of my series books out of KU for five days. (still kicking myself over that one!) If my books hadn't fallen out accidentally, my month would probably have had at least another 40k page reads. Maybe more because I lost a lot of momentum after that happened.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm another one for whom it's way, way better, but then my romances range from 84,000 words to 138,000 words, so my KENPCs are high.


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## kcmorgan (Jan 9, 2013)

KinkyWriter said:


> Ahh!!!
> 
> Now I'm nervous
> 
> ...


A 40k book should net you over a buck a read through. And given that it's an unknown name, I'd probably go KU with it and promote my butt off. People are far willing to take a risk on something for free, than something that cost money, so if I was holding books that brought over a buck a read through and no one knew me from Adam, I'd definitely go KU.


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## Michael Murray (Oct 31, 2011)

Lydniz said:


> You could have advised me to do that till you were blue in the face and I wouldn't have done it, even if it meant I could be sitting here right now in gold underwear with diamond-encrusted tassels. I write what I write. It's my choice. Nobody is ripping me off.


Installments aren't actually new - no one performed the Illiad in a single night, nor are shorts new: there are 884,421 total words in Shakespeare's 43 works for an average word count of ~20k- he wrote to the market - 'not that there's anything wrong with that...'


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## Penang (Jun 28, 2011)

I did better, doubling my KU payout from the previous month. Assuming full read through I had about 5 fewer borrows than in June. I write full length novels 63K-83K.

Interestingly enough as of today I am exactly at half the borrows I had last month, so I'm on target to hit the same # of borrows again.


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## KinkyWriter (Mar 17, 2015)

So in conlusion...

To be successful in KU2 you need to write more than 40k words per book, yes? 
(with the obvious of the book being good enough to read through)

If you write shorts, KU2 is not your friend. Including erotica, cookbooks, children's books...

It's novels or bust...

I think I got it...


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

brkingsolver said:


> I don't understand how the change in KU would have hurt you. I have a 60K novel, KENPC at 321. That works out to $1.85 for a full read. Less than I make on a sale, but more than the $1.35 per borrow in the old KU.


I wondered about that as well. I have a few books which are about 45,000 words, which may have made a bit less than the per borrow rate, but I also have some heavy ones which have made up for it. Of course, they have to be read all the way through, which mine have.


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

I did better, but I write novels. The only reason I didn't do a lot better was because the number of borrows went down for some reason.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I can't say I'm doing better or worse simply because I just enrolled two shorts to get the "five free days" at the end of July, so any borrows at all has been a bonus. It was one I wasn't even aware of so I'm pleasantly surprised at the thousands (hopefully) tens of thousands, of page reads.


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## kcmorgan (Jan 9, 2013)

KinkyWriter said:


> So in conlusion...
> 
> To be successful in KU2 you need to write more than 40k words per book, yes?
> (with the obvious of the book being good enough to read through)
> ...


I'd say you could probably get away with 20-30k novellas and still have it be worth it depending on how many novellas you wrote and if they were in a series. Like if you have eight 20k romance novellas that people can't put down, you're still golden. But if you write 5k stroke? Ha! Enjoy your 8 cents a pop. (Is laughing to hide her tears cause stroke was her biggest money maker in June). And anyone who would suggest to just write 10 times more stroke per book they have now just doesn't understand how much "popping" would be required to move that much product. LOL


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## HillOnLong (Oct 11, 2014)

kcmorgan said:


> I'd say you could probably get away with 20-30k novellas and still have it be worth it depending on how many novellas you wrote and if they were in a series. Like if you have eight 20k romance novellas that people can't put down, you're still golden. But if you write 5k stroke? Ha! Enjoy your 8 cents a pop. (Is laughing to hide her tears cause stroke was her biggest money maker in June). And anyone who would suggest to just write 10 times more stroke per book they have now just doesn't understand how much "popping" would be required to move that much product. LOL


However, because novellas make so little money in KU2.0, it might not make a lot of sense to market them and that might be the crux which breaks their viability (at least for people who spend money on promoting their books). It's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. You might be spending the same amount on marketing as previously, but you might make 20-50 % less, depending on how much less your novellas are worth in KU 2.0. Now, if the promo sites keep their current prices (which they undoubtedly will), you might just have to stop marketing novellas because the ROI is no longer there and that kills the earning potential of novellas even more.

Personally, I spend enough money on promoting my books that losing 40 % of my income for novellas means that promoting them is no longer worth the investment. Therefore, going long is the only option for me.


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## azebra (Jul 30, 2011)

Middle grade fiction here. Things were about the same for me. I'm not complaining.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

brkingsolver said:


> I don't understand how the change in KU would have hurt you. I have a 60K novel, KENPC at 321. That works out to $1.85 for a full read. Less than I make on a sale, but more than the $1.35 per borrow in the old KU.


I have a 63k novel in KU and I only have a 270 KENPC. I just redid the formatting last night, hoping to change the number, but it's still the same. :/


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I have a 63k novel in KU and I only have a 270 KENPC. I just redid the formatting last night, hoping to change the number, but it's still the same. :/


Could it perhaps be the amount of dialogue? My book comes in at over 800 KENPC and it isn't so heavy on dialogue, so I wondered...


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## Michael Murray (Oct 31, 2011)

I still think it makes sense to break long works up for discoverability - turn a 120k into 3 40k and you get 3x the keywords, 3x the free days, and 3x the covers that might show up on a search, same number of words and same payout. On my other pen name, my 3 20k series books with one free do better KENP than my 1 120k, even though the first one is free. I agree with Shane, this really lowers the potential payout per word for everyone.


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## Ros_Jackson (Jan 11, 2014)

Better, mainly because I wasn't in Select before and I put a long novel in. It's 801 KENPC, so quite chunky.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Sara Evans said:


> I love the retro 1920's look of your photo. It's beautiful.
> 
> How did you do it?


Were you asking me that or Stacy? My avatar is not me, I'm afraid. It's just a picture I found years ago. I'd totally wear that hat, though.


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## NS (Jul 8, 2011)

Love KU 2! KU1 killed me. I write full length stand alones.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

I had the good fortune of running a BB promotion in mid-July. Prior to that, I was getting 800 page reads a day. After the promotion, I averaged 20,000+ page reads a day for the rest of the month. Even in mid-August I am still getting close to 10,000 page reads a day.

The interesting thing here is that in the past, a BB promotion during KU1 would increase my borrows by about 3x. I would typically have about 100 borrows a month, earning maybe $130. After a BB promotion, I'd get 300 borrows and $400 for a couple of months before borrows slid back down. Clearly KU2 has been an unexpected joy!


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Ted Cross said:


> I did better, but I write novels. The only reason I didn't do a lot better was because the number of borrows went down for some reason.


I thought we no longer had any indication how many borrows we had?


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

lilywhite said:


> I thought we no longer had any indication how many borrows we had?


Well if I understand it right, KU1 registered any time someone read more than 10% of your book, so I saw a certain number of these per month, but with KU2 the number of people reading has dropped, though it looks to me as if the few who are reading are reading all the way through (I keep seeing reads that add up to my KENPC). So I make more in KU2 due to the payout, but for some reason I am getting fewer actual readers.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Ted Cross said:


> (I keep seeing reads that add up to my KENPC)


I guess this is the part that's hanging me up. Like, for example, yesterday one of my books had 10108 page reads. The KENPC is 415. So I could say, "Oh, I have 24 complete readthroughs" but a) the number is not PRECISELY divisible by my KENPC, b) I don't think most folks are reading my book straight through in one day (yours are quite long as well, aren't they, Ted?), and c) I have no illusions that everyone who borrows reads all the way through. So I just don't know how people are so confident that they can calculate their number of borrows.

I only ask because I would REALLY like to feel I could accurately pin down borrow numbers, as that would give me an idea of whether people are quitting my book partway through.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Michael Murray said:


> I still think it makes sense to break long works up for discoverability - turn a 120k into 3 40k and you get 3x the keywords, 3x the free days, and 3x the covers that might show up on a search, same number of words and same payout. On my other pen name, my 3 20k series books with one free do better KENP than my 1 120k, even though the first one is free. I agree with Shane, this really lowers the potential payout per word for everyone.


Breaking books up and trying to fleece the system is one of the biggest reasons Amazon changed the system. Most readers don't like chopped up books and a lot of them complained.


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## Cege Smith (Dec 11, 2011)

Honestly, I don't think my increased success in July had anything to do with KU1 vs. KU2.  I had the fortune of being part of a wildly successful box set that released in June and carried the first title in my newest PNR serial. I released #2 at the end of June, #3 in July, and #4 will drop next week. I get more pre-orders, more page reads, and more mailing list sign-ups with each title being released.

I have another long-running serial in KU and just released Part 10 in July. That serial isn't nearly as popular as the one that started in the box set, but once the story sucks them in I have a lot more for them to read once they get invested in the characters. I'm also getting crossover between the two serials. 

So really I don't think KU had any change in impact to me, but everything else I'm doing in terms of gaining visibility was what pushed my July earnings up 30% over June. (Serial-length definitely still works in my world.)


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## glc3 (Jun 24, 2009)

It all evened out. I write both novellas and shorts with a few bundles thrown in. I made less through KENPC on the shorter books, but much more on the longer works with KENPC than I would have made through a sale.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Breaking books up and trying to fleece the system is one of the biggest reasons Amazon changed the system. Most readers don't like chopped up books and a lot of them complained.


I prefer to write novels because I have the best ROI with them compared to novellas.

That out of the way, I am seriously uncomfortable with this attitude about length of work and the propriety. The idea that novels should be of a certain length, or should not be chopped up and published as separate parts, and this concept of "fleecing the system" needs to be unpacked.

First, the novel itself has changed historically and is not anything like the first novels that came out in the 18th Century. Seriously -- read one from the early days of novels. The modern novel is different. It can change in length from 40K words to Stephen-Kingesque George RR Martin length. It can be told from different POVs, and have chapters of a word long or pages and pages and pages. IOW, the novel is fungible historically and there is no single authoritative definition of what a novel is. Authors can break conventions if they choose. Readers will decide if they like what the author has done.

Second, publishing has had very many different forms since the start of the novel's existence, from pamphlet serials to actually breaking up novels into parts and publishing them separately, to posting a page a day on Twitter or giving them away free on websites, to writing 1,000 page tomes that have three books all mushed up into one loooong volume. They're all legitimate forms of publishing novels. There are no laws governing length and how a novel should be published. There is convention, and usually those conventions arose due to some kind of external limitation -- like the printing process, the binding process, technology, cost, etc. It's not a moral issue, in other words and I hate that people are turning it into a moral issue.

A novel's length and method of publishing is not a moral or ethical matter. It is a matter of preference on the part of the author, the reader, the publisher, the retailer, the marketplace.

If an author wants to break a novel up into 23 chapters and post them as individual short stories, and if it is not against the TOS of a retailer, and if readers are willing to buy each instalment, then more power to the author. If this goes totally against the wishes of the reading public, said author will not make any money.

Voila!

The market will take care of the practice.

Third, the concept of fleecing -- what a loaded word.

If the payment structure of KU 1.0 encouraged authors to break up their novels and publish in parts, it was because the payout structure was flawed. Why should a novelist who sells a novel at $3.99 and gets a revenue cut of $2.79 accept only $1.33 for a borrow? It makes financial sense for an author to publish a novel in 2 or 3 parts so that they don't lose money.

It was Amazon's fault for creating a flawed program, not the authors who responded to a clear market signal. There was no fleecing. There was a rational response to a market force.

KU 1.0 obviously did not meet Amazon's goals for the program. Whether this was due to customer dissatisfaction or author dissatisfaction or the financials, it was Amazon's mistake. Amazon learned from its mistake. Authors now have a new reality and will respond as they did to KU 1.0. They will try to write longer works that have high read through. They will take advantage of a new payout system and some may earn MORE for a borrow that for a sale. Is that unethical? Will that mean the authors are fleecing the system? Are they gaming the system?

No. They are responding to signals that Amazon is giving re: what will make money.

Will this create great fiction? Not necessarily. It will create page-turning fiction which has nothing necessarily to do with quality or worth. These authors are not fleecing the system by responding to the market forces in KU 2.0 and I think we should take the moralizing out of the equation.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

Erotic shorts. I was getting the page equivalent of a lot of full reads,  but at 10-20 cents per read-through, there's just no way it could be anything but "much much worse".


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

Sela, would you say it was a rational response for everyone to break up their novels for KU1? It didn't for a moment cross my mind to do such. I have a brand to protect and hope to be in the business for a long time. You don't bolster your brand by irritating your readers. 

Rational perhaps for the short-termers, and those with no desire to make a career of it. Not only was it irrational for brand-builders, but potentially suicidal, especially in a structure that so obviously was wrong and would be fixed and fixed soon.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Sela said:


> I prefer to write novels because I have the best ROI with them compared to novellas.
> 
> That out of the way, I am seriously uncomfortable with this attitude about length of work and the propriety. The idea that novels should be of a certain length, or should not be chopped up and published as separate parts, and this concept of "fleecing the system" needs to be unpacked.
> 
> ...


Where did I say anything about length? I'm specifically talking about people taking something that was written as one book and the hacking it up into bits and pieces to make a buck. There's a difference between a true short story or serial and hacking up a book.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Will C. Brown said:


> Worse, but expected.
> My erotica pen name hasn't had a release out in months. Those were 5K-9K shorts.


Same here. Mine disappeared to the bottom of the barrel lol

But im back to regular novels now.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Where did I say anything about length? I'm specifically talking about people taking something that was written as one book and the hacking it up into bits and pieces to make a buck. There's a difference between a true short story or serial and hacking up a book.


Even while you don't write down the word "length" in your post, it is there by implication since a part is not the same length as a whole.

What do you think about plotting a novel and then writing it in parts and releasing those novella-length parts separately instead of as a single longer novel? I don't mean writing it as a television series episode form. I mean plotting a book in three or four acts and publishing each act as a novella? Does that qualify for your notion of hacking up a book into bits and pieces?

Aren't all of us writing a particular format, whether longer novels, shorter novels, long novellas, short novellas, long short stories, short short stories, to make a buck? Why are you privileging a particular format and process?

Isn't the reader the ultimate judge and not other authors, who may prefer to write in a particular format?


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

thesmallprint said:


> Sela, would you say it was a rational response for everyone to break up their novels for KU1? It didn't for a moment cross my mind to do such. I have a brand to protect and hope to be in the business for a long time. You don't bolster your brand by irritating your readers.
> 
> Rational perhaps for the short-termers, and those with no desire to make a career of it. Not only was it irrational for brand-builders, but potentially suicidal, especially in a structure that so obviously was wrong and would be fixed and fixed soon.


I think that it was a rational response to a new market condition. Not everyone responds the same way to a new market condition. Some do, some don't. As to protecting a brand, that is one strategy and one I follow, but it is not the strategy of every author. Some are there to make as much money as they can in the short term and keep moving from one format to another. They will respond to different market conditions. Others pursue one path regardless of market conditions.

Many authors were told subtly and not so subtly that shorter formats were the wave of the future and adapted, writing short formats instead of longer and making more money in KU than they could make outside of it. They were being rational based on the information they had at the time.

Yes, there were true scammers who scraped content from Wikipedia and published as 10 page scamlets in order to make $1.35 when the unsuspecting KU reader opened their booklet, but they should be differentiated from those who legitimately responded to market signals to write shorter length works or to publish their novels in parts instead of a longer whole.

All I am trying to say is that I don't like the moralizing I see taking place. I am sure that there were many authors who responded to the market signals of KU 1.0 and the talk around length at the time and started to write shorter episodes or published novels in parts instead of longer formats in order to earn income.

There's nothing immoral about that rational response to a new market condition.

If anyone is to be blamed, it is Amazon for creating a flawed system that went against their own customer preferences. In doing so, they created a new market condition and signal that ultimately pissed off their customers and which led to a new market condition and signal.

To which authors must now respond if they want to make a buck in KU 2.0...


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Sela said:


> Even while you don't write down the word "length" in your post, it is there by implication since a part is not the same length as a whole.
> 
> What do you think about plotting a novel and then writing it in parts and releasing those novella-length parts separately instead of as a single longer novel? I don't mean writing it as a television series episode form. I mean plotting a book in three or four acts and publishing each act as a novella? Does that qualify for your notion of hacking up a book into bits and pieces?
> 
> ...


I think there's a difference between plotting a full novel and plotting a serial or short story. There were some people who told me I should break apart my books to specifically get more money out of KU. Are you telling me that's not unethical? I never said a thing about length. I stand by the fact that hacking up books is not the way to go and I do believe it's one of the reasons we have the new system. I don't care about the length of something. I care about purposely hacking a book up just to fleece people. If you feel otherwise that's certainly you prerogative. I am never going to be a proponent of hacking up books to make a profit.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I think there's a difference between plotting a full novel and plotting a serial or short story. There were some people who told me I should break apart my books to specifically get more money out of KU. Are you telling me that's not unethical? I never said a thing about length. I stand by the fact that hacking up books is not the way to go and I do believe it's one of the reasons we have the new system. I don't care about the length of something. I care about purposely hacking a book up just to fleece people. If you feel otherwise that's certainly you prerogative. I am never going to be a proponent of hacking up books to make a profit.


I agree there is a difference between plotting a novel and a serial or short story. I don't think an author is fleecing people if they write a novel in 3 parts or 4 parts instead of one if that means they won't lose money under a payment system like KU 1.0 just as I don't think an author is fleecing people if they take a series of novellas and publish them as a whole in order to make more for a borrow under KU 2.0 than they make as a sale. An author can sell their collection of 3 novellas that sell individually for 99c each and get $1.02 via sales individually but get $3.50 for a full read through of the collection if their KENP is 615. They make way more money in KU 2.0 than if they sell that series of novellas for 99c each.

Is that fleecing?

Or is that smart pricing and a rational response to a new market condition?

See - no moralizing.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Sela said:


> I agree there is a difference between plotting a novel and a serial or short story. I don't think an author is fleecing people if they write a novel in 3 parts or 4 parts instead of one if that means they won't lose money under a payment system like KU 1.0 just as I don't think an author is fleecing people if they take a series of novellas and publish them as a whole in order to make more for a borrow under KU 2.0 than they make as a sale. An author can sell their collection of 3 novellas set for 99c each and get $0.99 but get $3.50 for a full read through of the collection if their KENP is 615. They make way more money in KU 2.0 than if they sell that novel for 99c.
> 
> Is that fleecing?
> 
> ...


And yet that's not even what I was talking about. I have a problem with people taking a book that was meant to be published as one story and hacking it up to charge more for readers. I'm never going to like it. It's not the same thing as a serial or trilogy. I don't care what anyone says. It's not the same thing. Period. Have a nice rest of your weekend.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> And yet that's not even what I was talking about. I have a problem with people taking a book that was meant to be published as one story and hacking it up to charge more for readers. I'm never going to like it. It's not the same thing as a serial or trilogy. I don't care what anyone says. It's not the same thing. Period. Have a nice rest of your weekend.


But it was what you were talking about by implication. Three novellas written as novellas but smooshed together into a longer format and put into KU 2.0 earns more for a borrow than via individual sales at 99c each.

That's not fleecing. It's responding to market forces.

You -- and by 'you' I mean the collective 'you' -- can choose to respond or not to those market forces but it doesn't make you morally superior one way or another.

Which is the whole implication of your (as in the particular you) statement.

Have a nice day.


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

lilywhite said:


> I guess this is the part that's hanging me up. Like, for example, yesterday one of my books had 10108 page reads. The KENPC is 415. So I could say, "Oh, I have 24 complete readthroughs" but a) the number is not PRECISELY divisible by my KENPC, b) I don't think most folks are reading my book straight through in one day (yours are quite long as well, aren't they, Ted?), and c) I have no illusions that everyone who borrows reads all the way through. So I just don't know how people are so confident that they can calculate their number of borrows.
> 
> I only ask because I would REALLY like to feel I could accurately pin down borrow numbers, as that would give me an idea of whether people are quitting my book partway through.


It's harder for you since you have multiple people reading at once, while for me I generally see one reader at a time reading my book, so over two or three days it adds up to my KENPC.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Sara Evans said:


> Most books are not read cover to cover. With the old program if a reader quit 12% into the book the author was paid the $1.35. With the new system only books that connect with readers will get a full read through. Here is an article on the subject with data from Kobo.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/10/kobo-survey-books-readers-finish-donna-tartt
> 
> ...


Does this mean that we can pat ourselves on the back for every one of our books that was read to the end


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

A partially read book under KU 2 is better than a return. At least we get paid something even if it's only pennies.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> A partially read book under KU 2 is better than a return. At least we get paid something even if it's only pennies.


I like this logic. I don't know why, but I do. It's sad, really, that we have this mindset.
I am one of the few who don't like the subscription model that society has come to adopt for creative people (artists, musicians, authors, etc.) because I feel like it does devalue the years/hours/etc. of hard work that these people had put into creating the content and they're only getting paid pennies (often times less) for it. But unfortunately, this is the way that technology and the mainstream media has gone, and all we as authors can do is accept it or get left behind. So we've come to the point where we're conditioned to accept the fact that half a penny is considered awesome. We're taking what we can get, no matter how low the offer is. Call it desperation or whatever. But that's just the way things have become these days for subscription-based creative content on the Internet.

...And before anyone trolls/flames me, I'm not complaining about this. Just stating my observation. And I've learned to accept this fact and will adapt, just like everyone else. So I'm going to grit my teeth and try KU2.

I had tried KU before when it was KU1, but had no results in sales or borrows (literally zero). But I'm going to give KU2 a try with my two short stories that are not selling anywhere. They are wide, and none are selling on any of the vendors. At this point, getting paid a few pennies for a couple of pages is better than getting paid zero for no sales. These shorts have been great for doing these sorts of experiments on.

I wish everyone the best of luck. It will be interesting to see what the next big thing will be in store for authors in selling their works.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2015)

Sorry, but I think indie authors are going the way of Barnes & Noble.
If we stay on the path, we'll end up like Barnes & Noble, searching for a new income stream to replace books.

Let's recap the Barnes & Noble saga.

It started becoming the big book store when it realized that it could stock huge buildings with merchandise (books) on consignment. In other words, get new books that did not have to be paid for until 60 to 90 days down the road.

When the bills came due, why just start returning unsold books for credit.

In it's race to become the big book chain, Barnes & Noble provided nice comfortable areas were folks could come in for a couple of hours and READ. Got kids? Park them in the carpeted children's area while you continue reading with coffee and pastry from the Barnes & Noble café.

Barnes & Noble began going down hill because it lost sight of its true purpose: To SELL books, not become the nicest library in town.
Internet commerce is just the final nail in its coffin. Potential readers could fingerprint its stock, take the kiddies back home, then later buy a book or two through the net.

Now Barnes & Nobel, which catering to the "library" crowd, missed the boat on ebooks. Barnes & Noble is trying new revenue streams by stocking games and puzzles, leather bound blank notebooks. Etc.

But back to us.

We are becoming used to the idea that we should let the "library" crowd access our books, leaving a half-penny in our Tip Jar for each page read.
Oh, we jump for joy. We're getting all this exposure. And half-pennies really do add up over time.

Barnes & Noble forget that its mission was to SELL books.
What is our mission?

Hold on to your day job. If you have left it, beg to return until we find other revenue streams. We need to learn how to create PRODUCTS that we can SELL. Perhaps making toys would be the way to go.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Okey Dokey said:


> Sorry, but I think indie authors are going the way of Barnes & Noble.
> If we stay on the path, we'll end up like Barnes & Noble, searching for a new income stream to replace books.
> 
> Let's recap the Barnes & Noble saga.
> ...


My mission is to get readers to READ my books, by whichever means. Getting paid is a bonus as I would never rely on royalties for my income (learnt that from trad pub days)


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Okey Dokey said:


> Sorry, but I think indie authors are going the way of Barnes & Noble.
> If we stay on the path, we'll end up like Barnes & Noble, searching for a new income stream to replace books.
> 
> Let's recap the Barnes & Noble saga.
> ...


Sorry, but Barnes & Noble's financial problems did not stem from how they designed their stores. B&N had been using this store design format since the 1990s and they were profiting from it. The casualties back then were the small, independent bookstores.

B&N was doing okay until 2008 when Kindle began to get a foothold in the market, and the e-book revolution began. It was also due to B&N's inability to market the Nook anywhere near as successfully as Amazon did with the Kindle. That's where B&N's financial woes began. By 2010, B&N's profit was in a tailspin.

Amazon simply built a better mousetrap, in the same way iTunes built a better delivery system to access music -- which is why record stores went under. B&N's decline is simply due to the advancement of technology and an inability to adapt to that world. Not because they focused on sofas and coffee bars.


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

Much, much worse. I'm down so much I haven't even bothered checking the percentage.

I write a wide mix of shorts, serials, novellas and novels under several pen names. It's been extremely dismal overall.


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I was a fan of a bestselling author - until he/his publisher decided they could earn more by writing the books in installments (can't think of any other reason for doing that). It annoyed me so much that I simply stopped reading that author's books . I'm sure I'm not the only reader who gets annoyed when they find the end of the book is not really THE END.


Sorry, I have the attention span of a drunken gnat. I actually prefer short installments. Especially in KU because... um... they don't cost anything extra.


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## 4eyesbooks (Jan 9, 2012)

Much, much worse, but I figured kidlit authors would not do well in this new model so I pulled all my titles from exclusivity last month.  Now I can go wide when I have a new release this fall and for the Christmas buying season.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

TOS.


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