# 'You're not a real writer"



## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

That's what I was told today.

My response?

"Well, then I'll make sure to contact all my bill collectors and let them know they're not being paid with real money."


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Ty Johnston said:


> That's what I was told today.
> 
> My response?
> 
> "Well, then I'll make sure to contact all my bill collectors and let them know they're not being paid with real money."


Well now do you write or do you type? LOL.
You look real to me but what do I know? I'm just a giant smiley that lives in a water slide.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

I'm agree I'm not a real writer.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2013)

Ty Johnston said:


> That's what I was told today.


I've read that often enough, but haven't been told it (yet). Your response was perfect.

If I may be so bold: What type of person said that to you (agent, family member, etc)?


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## maineavalanche (Mar 22, 2013)

The odd thing to me is even if you never made money at writing, it doesn't mean you're not a real writer.  If you're writing your books and putting the manuscript in a drawer, you're still a real writer.  I guess I just don't get some people's narrow-mindedness.


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## Vivienne Mathews (May 7, 2013)

Well, of course you're not. Just like indie film makers aren't real film makers. That's why no one ever goes to the Sundance Film Festival or honors the creators of those (_clearly fake_) works of art with Oscars, SAG nominations, or Spirit awards.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

ejgodwin said:


> If I may be so bold: What type of person said that to you (agent, family member, etc)?


It wasn't someone in my personal life, I'll say that much. If I say anything else (ie., it's a trad writer, a reader, an English teacher, a book shop manager, etc.), then _someone _would get into the whole tearing them down thing, and I'm not into that. I dealt with the person as an individual, not as a representation of their profession or whatever clique one could toss them into.


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## RMHuffman (Apr 1, 2013)

Yeah, what sort of situation could possibly result in such a condescending declaration? Context, please! And hey - if fake writing pays too, it's still all good, right?


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

What's a 'real' writer?


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm going to guess that based on whoever you were talking to's definition, I paid off one house, bought another, paid for two vehicles, a daughter's hospital bills from her birth, weeks and weeks of movie night snacks, a vacation to Colorado...aaaaaaall with absolutely not-real money.

Crap.

I hope the cops never find out.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

DAWearmouth said:


> What's a 'real' writer?


I don't know, but I'm aspiring to become one. Maybe. It sounds kind of like an unfriendly atmosphere though, with people saying mean things.


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## Vivienne Mathews (May 7, 2013)

DAWearmouth said:


> What's a 'real' writer?


One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> I don't know, but I'm aspiring to become one. Maybe. It sounds kind of like an unfriendly atmosphere though, with people saying mean things.


I'm scared that it means I'll have to pose 'naturally' for a silly photo in a library or the countryside, possibly wearing a chunky scarf and pretentious hat.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


Where do I sign up?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Ty Johnston said:


> That's what I was told today.
> 
> My response?
> 
> "Well, then I'll make sure to contact all my bill collectors and let them know they're not being paid with real money."


Awesome response!  What did the person say back? I hope he/she felt silly.

I never had anyone act like that about my writing, but I had a patient at work who was currently receiving a breathing treatment from me (I'm a respiratory therapist). Just as we finished up, he said something like, "It must be boring to watch people breathe all day." Unlike you, I did not think up a good response at the time. I mumbled something about other things like taking care of ventilator patients, then left the room. Twenty feet from the room, I thought of a great response and wanted to run back and blurt it out. *sigh* See, we go to all codes in the hospital and are the ones called by the doctors and nurses when someone is having trouble breathing. What I *should* have said was, "You're right...it does get boring watching people breathe all day. It doesn't get exciting until they stop."

I keep hoping I'll get a chance to use it someday, but haven't yet.


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## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

Crap. Are you telling me this world isn't real?  I should have known. I would have never earned enough money for a living just with my books in a real world.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I actually had someone say to me, "She's a NYT's best seller...of REAL books."

I don't think she meant to offend. I think she just didn't know how to differentiate between ebooks and paperbacks.

It just sort of grated on me.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Awesome response!  What did the person say back? I hope he/she felt silly.


They were stunned into silence for a good while.


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## jonathanmoeller (Apr 19, 2011)

A long time ago, I realized that if a person doesn't have the ability or the authority to stop me from getting paid for my writing, then...well, their opinion of my writing doesn't really matter. That doesn't mean I'm a jerk about it, of course. There's too much gratuitous jerkdom in the world already. No need to add to it.

So I politely acknowledge their opinion, and then forget it about it. Though I'm told that saying in a monotone "I politely acknowledge your opinion" is a _slightly _jerky thing to do.


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

Did someone say alcohol?


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

ask 'em what they've written....


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2013)

Ty Johnston said:


> They were stunned into silence for a good while.


Love it!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Whenever I run up against someone with a negative or ignorant attitude, I just think to myself, "They don't know, what they don't know." I actually feel a little smug that I know something they don't.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


Oh, I knew I was doing something wrong. I have it backwards.

Darn!


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


I like the cut of your jib.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Perfect response!


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## MarcyB (Feb 10, 2013)

You know, when I started this venture I had a good friend tell me that the first thing I had to do was look in a mirror and call myself a writer. In other words, I had to believe in myself, so who cares what some uninformed person thinks, right? Yes, easier said than done. Also, I am a school librarian, and last week I read a book to the elementary kids called, _The Library Mouse_. In the book the students look in an empty tissue box with a banner above it that says, "Meet the Author." There is a little mirror inside, placed, of course, by the mouse.  Anyway, I made a similar one, and the kids got to meet the author. I told the kids that any time they write they are the author of their own words. Today I had a kindergarten student bring me a book he had "written" and illustrated. Of course some of the pages were glued together, and he can't spell yet, but he beamed with such pride because _he_ was the writer of his own words. Whether you are a maker or money or not, you are a real writer. Don't let anyone tell you differently!!!! Best wishes.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


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## dianasg (Jan 8, 2010)

MarcyBlesy said:


> You know, when I started this venture I had a good friend tell me that the first thing I had to do was look in a mirror and call myself a writer. In other words, I had to believe in myself, so who cares what some uninformed person thinks, right? Yes, easier said than done. Also, I am a school librarian, and last week I read a book to the elementary kids called, _The Library Mouse_. In the book the students look in an empty tissue box with a banner above it that says, "Meet the Author." There is a little mirror inside, placed, of course, by the mouse.  Anyway, I made a similar one, and the kids got to meet the author. I told the kids that any time they write they are the author of their own words. Today I had a kindergarten student bring me a book he had "written" and illustrated. Of course some of the pages were glued together, and he can't spell yet, but he beamed with such pride because _he_ was the writer of his own words. Whether you are a maker or money or not, you are a real writer. Don't let anyone tell you differently!!!! Best wishes.


Aww, this was such a sweet story. Thanks for sharing!

To the OP: touché!


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

A real writer drinks bourbon, deciphers Sanskrit, hits on flappers, and makes love in the Serengeti, _all at the same time_.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

superfictious said:


> A real writer drinks bourbon, deciphers Sanskrit, hits on flappers, and makes love in the Serengeti, _all at the same time_.


Done.


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## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

What is the requirement?  I thought when I covered my rent I can say I am one... I have and I started to think when I can do that for a living...

I don't think it's tied with money that explicily, but it is something that you do as a primary means of getting paid, and it is your job. So that's my definition.  When you are done writing, you are an author of a book. While you write, you are a writer.

It's definitely being up when others are asleep and wondering if you are really trying to fake your way out of a real job and career. YMMV


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

Ty Johnston said:


> Done.


This pleases Hemingway.

See Hemingway approve.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

If the government considers what you do to be taxable, you're a real writer.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Way back when Writers' Cafe was pretty new, there was a discussion like this. At that time someone posted a couple of sentences with a sentiment similar to what Ty said. I printed it and stuck it on the side of my PC.

_"Not having the status and legitimacy of being a "real writer" sure does burn. I guess I'll just have to rub some money on that."_

To be honest, since I'm a mercenary witch, I never felt much burn. From the beginning what I felt was closer to exultation over finding a bearable way to relieve financial distress.


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## Christopher Gray (Feb 27, 2013)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


I've resembled that remark on occasion


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## Joshua Dalzelle (Jun 12, 2013)

Avis Black said:


> If the government considers what you do to be taxable, you're a real writer.


Ha! Best answer yet...


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## AnitaDobs (Sep 18, 2012)

I've always liked Stephen King's definition of a 'real writer' (not saying it's the only one though.)

'If you write and get paid for your writing, you're a writer.'

It'll do me.

+1 on Avis' answer.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

At least they used the word "writer" when they accused the OP. "Writer" makes the statement refutable in the sense that almost everyone is a writer, including that 1st grader on her first writing assignment to the 103YO memoirist. Anybody who writes is technically a writer.

However, what I have heard is more insulting. I have heard people insinuate that if you selfpub you are not a real "author." Somehow the idea is to tie the word "author" to a "real" publisher as in legacy/traditional publisher.

As far as I am concerned, if you are published at all -- selfpub or tradpub -- you are technically an "author." The rest of us are mere writers.

A possible definition of a writer:









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190662893/

And a bonus quote:









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190662879/


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

There's this guy I know that's always telling me I'm not a real writer, that all my stuff sucks, that I'll never amount to anything--all the good stuff. I really wish I wasn't so mean to myself all the time.

Of course, I've been told that my _entire genre_ isn't real writing, so I don't actually care about 'real' writing anymore.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

It is awkward, explaining what you do.

I gave books to some people at my local Starbucks, but then after that, I was asked by the barristas I didn't know that well, if I was the author whose books were in the break room. But I just wanted my coffee. I didn't want to have to be in an awkward conversation with someone trying to figure out (a) how much money I make and (b) how much of a sex freak I am for writing erotic romance. 

The only logical solution was to move to a new neighborhood. I will not tell the new barristas. I will not tell anyone.


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## jesrphoto (Aug 7, 2012)

Quiss said:


>


I love this.

I really think sometimes people get snarky or down putting because they can't fathom finding success at something you love, which is a very unfortunate for them. I sometimes get the same snark or nay-saying in my line of work.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

My kid asked me once when I was going to write "real books" (in relation to my non-fiction ones, I mean--he has no idea about the erotic stuff). So I asked what a 'real book' was. He said, "One with pictures."


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

1001nightspress said:


> So I asked what a 'real book' was. He said, "One with pictures."


This. Is. Awesome.


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## 10105 (Feb 16, 2010)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


Drat. I thought that was a real jazz musician. Oh, wait. We drink alcohol at night and alcohol in the morning. Sorry.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Vaalingrade said:


> Of course, I've been told that my _entire genre_ isn't real writing, so I don't actually care about 'real' writing anymore.


See, that's part of the elitism that seems to run rampant through the literary world, though at various levels by different institutions or individuals. I occasionally see a little of this in other professions, but not to the levels I see in writing and publishing.

_Your _genre isn't real writing. Or because you aren't doing _X_, it isn't real writing. Or because you haven't published with a certain type of magazine or publisher, it isn't real writing. Or because you didn't study under a certain professor or at a particular school or because you haven't read all 5,000 works by some Renaissance poet who nobody knows the name of any more, or because you haven't read all 500 lost works of some great pulp writer from the 1920s. There's always something, something that is supposed to _put you in your place_.

Geez, after a while it gets to the point where too many voices are starting to sound like Tolstoy or John Gardner, or even Jonathan Franzen, all writers I enjoy but also writers with extreme viewpoints on what is and is not writing, or even "art."


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

Avis Black said:


> If the government considers what you do to be taxable, you're a real writer.


If you get that W-2 from Amazon, it counts. The government says so. 

But then, this also was a thought.


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## D.L. Shutter (Jul 9, 2011)

> There's always something, something that is supposed to put you in your place.


I think this captures the elitist sentiment perfectly. A legacy writer who (no offense to anyone) has never earned out a 5k advance and is still in a cubicle 9-5 is perfectly legit and noteworthy but an indie(s) making 5, 10, 20K a month (especially if it's in one of those _lowbrow_ genre's) is still a phony. Or lazy for not doing it right. Or not considered a _successful_ writer until they've sold 500k titles, or got a movie deal, or 10 foreign print deals, or....etc. Somehow the first 10, 20 or 50k indie sales, that may equal or surpass what your avg. legacy writer sells in a few years, never counts.

Redonkulous.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2013)

superfictious said:


> A real writer drinks bourbon, deciphers Sanskrit, hits on flappers, and makes love in the Serengeti, _all at the same time_.


No. That's a real archeologist. A real writer wears a fedora and a wool scarf (male version), drinks fine wine, refers what he/she does ONLY as "the craft" and NEVER just "writing", will write a 400 page mystery novel and speak as if it will change the way people think and feel about the world in spite of the fact it's just a d*mn story, and behave as if what they do is on the same level of importance as curing cancer or feeding starving children.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> My kid asked me once when I was going to write "real books" (in relation to my non-fiction ones, I mean--he has no idea about the erotic stuff). So I asked what a 'real book' was. He said, "One with pictures."


Aww.  How sweet.

I'm considering writing a series of kids' books for my little dude, but I don't think I'd publish them. I don't think the stabby SM Reine brand would do well with mushy sweet rhyming books for preschoolers, and I'm waaaay too lazy to have another pen name.


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## Gennita Low (Dec 13, 2012)

Vivienne Mathews said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


Drat. Does lunch count?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Ty Johnston said:


> That's what I was told today.
> 
> My response?
> 
> "Well, then I'll make sure to contact all my bill collectors and let them know they're not being paid with real money."


Haha!

Yeah, the only time I hear this is from writers who are aspiring to be traditionally published, *and* think it's the only way to be a "real" writer. Whenever I hear it, or its variants, I like to point out that one of my books has more reviews than ANY of the books either of my TWO former literary agents has ever represented, presumably indicating that more people have actually, you know, READ my books. That makes my writing real enough to me, and probably makes it real enough to my former agents, too.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

smreine said:


> Aww.  How sweet.
> 
> I'm considering writing a series of kids' books for my little dude, but I don't think I'd publish them. I don't think the stabby SM Reine brand would do well with mushy sweet rhyming books for preschoolers, and I'm waaaay too lazy to have another pen name.


I got my own back when he went to college. Suddenly he was all over mom's books. "On your knees, dude!" I told him. "BEG for the books!"


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## RaeC (Aug 20, 2013)

BrianDAnderson said:


> No. That's a real archeologist. A real writer wears a fedora and a wool scarf (male version), drinks fine wine, refers what he/she does ONLY as "the craft" and NEVER just "writing", will write a 400 page mystery novel and speak as if it will change the way people think and feel about the world in spite if the fact it's just a d*mn story, and behave as if what they do is on the same level of importance as curing cancer or feeding starving children.


No one told me I'd need a fedora...


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

I think that when you're so busy writing that you forget to move or eat... that makes you a real writer.  

I have an abnormally low tolerance for alcohol (sick on half a glass of wine). Are other vices allowed? Or am I now kicked out of the club?

Or, is it more like being like Pinnocchio? I want to be a REEEAAALLLLL writer!

Or like Jackie Paper?


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## Raquel Lyon (Mar 3, 2012)

1001nightspress said:


> I got my own back when he went to college. Suddenly he was all over mom's books. "On your knees, dude!" I told him. "BEG for the books!"


Is it just me, or does knowing what kind of books you write make this statement sound a little weird?


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

Rlyon said:


> Is it just me, or does knowing what kind of books you write make this statement sound a little weird?


All I'll add is ... if you wrote a book about it, Amazon would probably pull it.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Rlyon said:


> Is it just me, or does knowing what kind of books you write make this statement sound a little weird?


LOL. That was still the non-fiction! Suddenly required reading in some classes.  NOT the erotica! He still doesn't know. He'll never know. There are some things a kid doesn't need to know about his mom.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

I guess what they meant is: You're not a traditionally published author.


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## Daphne (May 27, 2010)

I subscribe to Terry Pratchett's definition of a writer in "Snuff":
Vimes "had heard that writers spent all their day in their dressing gowns drinking champagne." - Pratchett's foot note - "This is, of course, absolutely true."

Look! - I have both. I must be a real writer.



(Actually, the champagne isn't mine, but the dressing gown part is close to the truth.)


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## Shane Ward (Jan 25, 2013)

Ty Johnston said:


> That's what I was told today.
> 
> My response?
> 
> "Well, then I'll make sure to contact all my bill collectors and let them know they're not being paid with real money."


I guess you have a fan... Die hard one at that. In the end just ignore them, In the end, critiques are nothing more than intellectual essays on one's impressions.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

Excellent response 

It reminds me when one of my friends asked me what I did all day. When I told her, it was a case of 'wow, you wouldn't have time for a real job'. 

That's right, because I have a job and it's called writing, LOL!

Definition of publishing: to make your work available to the public.


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## Steamdave (Sep 24, 2013)

I get the "real writer" thing a lot.
When I published with small indie publishers, I was not a real writer because I was not with a major.
When I published with a major, I was not a real writer because it was short stories, not a novel. 
When I published in academical journals, I was not a real writer because it was, you know, science research stuff.
When I published in the gaming industry I was not a real writer because it was gaming, not fiction.
When I published in a charity collection, I was not a real writer because it was charity work.
When I started self-publishing, not only I was not a real writer, but I was further downgraded to "filthy self-publisher, one that's not good enough to find himself a real publisher".

And don't get me started about what they tell me when I say that writing two blogs in two languages is writing.

There's a lot of highly opinionated individuals, out there - and they knickers can get really in a twist when they find out you write to pay your bills.

Ty's response is excellent.
My response, alas, can't be printed in polite company


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

To be honest, I don't think this issue has anything to do with how much money you make as a writer in hopes of justifying someone's belief of yourself as a writer. More often than not, this criticism comes from people who see "you're not a writer" as some kind of passive-aggressive assault on someone in a way that has absolutely no defense. No matter what you do, the bar is always set just a bit higher than you have already achieved so that the person making the comment can feel superior in some ridiculous way.

When I first started out writing, I used to get these comments from non-writers all the time, quite often with the other correlated throw-away comment of "I've been meaning to write my own book, but I just haven't found the time to do it yet" which is passive-aggression trying to say: "I'm too important to waste my time on writing, but I'm obviously smart enough to do all of the work you've been doing for decades."

Whenever I run into one of these people, and you run into them all the time, I immediately delete them from my life and seek out other colleagues or friends. If it's someone I can't avoid, then that person gets second class citizenship status from me to the point where nothing that person says is of any significance to me whatsoever. There are way too many people out there who want to make themselves feel better by bringing down others. Don't enable them, and their job is that much harder.


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## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

I occasionally get the opposite response too.  I was with my husband at an international scientific conference.  (In Waikiki, no less).  We were having drinks with a guy he's known for years, the chair of the chemistry department at a major university.  They talk about the science biz for an hour while I sit there like a bump on a log. But who's going to complain at a beachfront café in Waikiki?  I participate a bit now and then, because I do actually know a lot of science, even though I'm a nobody because I only have a B.S.  Finally the friend realizes how rude he is and asks what I do.  The "little lady" is inferred. You can see that he's expecting not much of an answer.  I said, "I'm a novelist."  The whole atmosphere immediately changed.  You could see him try to process the information that I do actually have a brain in my head.  I was treated with a lot more respect after that.


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## Steamdave (Sep 24, 2013)

sarbonn said:


> More often than not, this criticism comes from people who see "you're not a writer" as some kind of passive-aggressive assault on someone in a way that has absolutely no defense. No matter what you do, the bar is always set just a bit higher than you have already achieved so that the person making the comment can feel superior in some ridiculous way.


I agree - it's just a form of aggression, they are basically losers.
Some people get their kicks that way.
And yes, ignoring them is the best response, because you deny them the attention they crave.
But sometimes, giving them a modicum of that attention, by reacting very rudely *before* you start ignoring them, is somewhat gratifying


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Maybe it's because I look like I can fold someone around a lamp post, but I rarely get these rude remarks. Most of the time, when people ask me what I'm doing (because I'm often writing on my iPad with bluetooth keyboard in a playground full of screaming children), and I reply that I'm working on my novels, people tend to be in awe. They're even more awed that I write in another language than Dutch.

I'm also an avid motorcyclist, and I read on American forums that non-Harley riders are often asked by non-riders when they're going to buy a 'real bike' (meaning 'a Harley'). Like, that huge BMW R1100GS is obviously a sissy bike... Nobody ever would say something like that to me, not even when I'm tooling around on my Vespa PX200. Maybe because they know such questions are rude, and rudeness can be reason for people to become violent to other people.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Steamdave said:


> But sometimes, giving them a modicum of that attention, by reacting very rudely *before* you start ignoring them, is somewhat gratifying


Gratifying, perhaps, but it can also draw negative attention to you and your work.

You could also confront them about their rudeness. "Do you have any idea how rude your remark/question was, or have you never learned any manners?"


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## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

> Maybe it's because I look like I can fold someone around a lamp post, but I rarely get these rude remarks


 I envy you. For a person who is well documented to be of well above average intelligence, I can be very dumb sometimes. It took me most of my lifetime to realize that most people seem to assume that someone who is very short could not possibly be intelligent. It must be that they see you as a child, subconsciously. Hidden behind a computer, I can finally be taken seriously.


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

brendajcarlton said:


> I occasionally get the opposite response too. I was with my husband at an international scientific conference. (In Waikiki, no less). We were having drinks with a guy he's known for years, the chair of the chemistry department at a major university. They talk about the science biz for an hour while I sit there like a bump on a log. But who's going to complain at a beachfront café in Waikiki? I participate a bit now and then, because I do actually know a lot of science, even though I'm a nobody because I only have a B.S. Finally the friend realizes how rude he is and asks what I do. The "little lady" is inferred. You can see that he's expecting not much of an answer. I said, "I'm a novelist." The whole atmosphere immediately changed. You could see him try to process the information that I do actually have a brain in my head. I was treated with a lot more respect after that.


+1

Scientist types (and I am one, so I can testify to this) alternate being snobbish towards people who traffic in words and being in awe of them. It all spawns from having no clue how to put two sentences together. The ones who can (both write and do science) are much more understanding.

Having worked in the science world for many years, I'm constantly amazed at how much the literary world traffics in glory, not money. The constant search for status is more extreme in the arts than any other field I've worked in. Which is bizarre, because people almost invariably get into the arts for the love. This glory-focus is one reason I love the radical nature of indie publishing. Totally turns that world upside down.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Works for me.  If what I'm doing is fake, then I need to hallucinate a lot more.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

1001nightspress said:


> LOL. That was still the non-fiction! Suddenly required reading in some classes.  NOT the erotica! He still doesn't know. He'll never know. There are some things a kid doesn't need to know about his mom.


After multiple proofreaders, my 16 year old granddaughter told me she found a mistake in my book. She pointed at the paragraph which I proceeded to read out loud to find the error (stray quotation mark sneaked in somehow). She interrupted my reading, "Grandma, stop! I can't believe my grandmother wrote this." I said her grandmother, Sheryl, didn't write it; Sheryl, the author, wrote it.

Incidentally, my scenes all stop at the bedroom door. This is as sexy as it gets, but she was horrified:
_He needed to see her. He needed to touch her naked body and feel her hands running all over his._


----------



## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

> After multiple proofreaders, my 16 year old granddaughter told me she found a mistake in my book. She pointed at the paragraph which I proceeded to read out loud to find the error (stray quotation mark sneaked in somehow). She interrupted my reading, "Grandma, stop! I can't believe my grandmother wrote this." I said her grandmother, Sheryl, didn't write it; Sheryl, the author, wrote it.
> 
> Incidentally, my scenes all stop at the bedroom door. This is as sexy as it gets, but she was horrified:
> He needed to see her. He needed to touch her naked body and feel her hands running all over his.


LOL. If there is one constant in all of human history, it is that every generation thinks that they invented sex.


----------



## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

I liked the OP's response. Nice.


----------



## Steamdave (Sep 24, 2013)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> Gratifying, perhaps, but it can also draw negative attention to you and your work.


Granted.
And I'm never rude in public, and never when this can reflect negatively on my work.
On my blog, on mailing lists and forums, as a rule I ignore this sort of attacks or, if the "not a real writer" bit comes from someone that seems reasonable but prejudiced, I try to talk it out and explain how things stand.
I like debates. 
With people that meeting me socially blurt out the "not a real writer" bit, maybe with a little smirk, I normally counter with some flippancy ("I'm not even a real person, how could I be a real writer?") or with some snappy retort that simply tells them to back off ("Are you giving away badges?")
My rudeness is pretty lightweight


----------



## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

brendajcarlton said:


> I envy you.


Don't. There are advantages to being larger than average, but also disadvantages.


----------



## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Excellent response to a not so nice remark.

If it makes you feel better I know a nurse who works private duty in high tech patient's homes (critical care stuff with babies on respirators, etc). other nurses have commented that she's not a "real nurse" because she doesn't work in a hospital.      

Snobbery invades all walks of life I guess.


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> *and rudeness can be reason for people to become violent to other people.*


LOL. I'm imagining this being said in a Mafia boss kind of voice.


----------



## Andrea Harding (Feb 27, 2013)

brendajcarlton said:


> LOL. If there is one constant in all of human history, it is that every generation thinks that they invented sex.


Personally I think it's just a 'family' thing... I don't really want to think about my relatives doing the things I've done or had done to me - it has an 'ick' factor for me. When my friend tells me about the seriously embarassing sexual stuff her mother likes to discuss with her I just think 'Good for her, I hope I'm that... active? at her age!'


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

brendajcarlton said:


> I envy you. For a person who is well documented to be of well above average intelligence, I can be very dumb sometimes. It took me most of my lifetime to realize that most people seem to assume that someone who is very short could not possibly be intelligent. It must be that they see you as a child, subconsciously. Hidden behind a computer, I can finally be taken seriously.


AH -- but at least you're probably viewed as attractive because of your size. I'm nearly six feet tall, which for a woman is apparently FREAK PROPORTIONS. I was not asked on a date until I was 30 years old (I had to do all the asking prior to that), and I've been rejected by men more times than I can count because "you're too tall to be pretty." (Most of them just said "you're too tall," but a few were kind enough to tack on the last bit as well.)

Weird how people assume attributes based on physical appearance. Weird, and stupid.

(The hell of it is, I grew up feeling like I was petite and feminine because my sister is 6'2". I am the shortest one in my family.)


----------



## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> AH -- but at least you're probably viewed as attractive because of your size. I'm nearly six feet tall, which for a woman is apparently FREAK PROPORTIONS. I was not asked on a date until I was 30 years old (I had to do all the asking prior to that), and I've been rejected by men more times than I can count because "you're too tall to be pretty." (Most of them just said "you're too tall," but a few were kind enough to tack on the last bit as well.)
> 
> Weird how people assume attributes based on physical appearance. Weird, and stupid.
> 
> (The hell of it is, I grew up feeling like I was petite and feminine because my sister is 6'2". I am the shortest one in my family.)


At 5'4 1/2" I tower over most of the women in my family (they're all 5'2" and under and the men are around 5'7") and always thought I was so tall. Lol

Well, they built an entire industry around women your height (fashion models are tall) so there.


----------



## Andrea Harding (Feb 27, 2013)

LBrent said:


> Well, they built an entire industry around women your height (fashion models are tall) so there.


I'm inclined to agree - at 5'9 I'm very tall for a female where I live, but from the age of 15 to 19, I used to wear four inch heels because I wanted to be more than 6ft!

These days comfort wins out though...


----------



## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

> AH -- but at least you're probably viewed as attractive because of your size. I'm nearly six feet tall, which for a woman is apparently FREAK PROPORTIONS. I was not asked on a date until I was 30 years old (I had to do all the asking prior to that), and I've been rejected by men more times than I can count because "you're too tall to be pretty." (Most of them just said "you're too tall," but a few were kind enough to tack on the last bit as well.)
> 
> Weird how people assume attributes based on physical appearance. Weird, and stupid.
> 
> (The hell of it is, I grew up feeling like I was petite and feminine because my sister is 6'2". I am the shortest one in my family.)


Yes, that's true, but that territory comes with fending off the creepy gropers.  There are pros and cons to everything, I guess. I am 5'1" and a smidge. I lie on my driver's license and say 5'2", rounding up, not that I'm neurotic about it or anything. My son, my son-in-law and my stepson are 6'1", 6'4" and 6'5" respectively. I keep saying I am going to put a picture of me with them on Facebook, with the caption: Me and my boys. Mess with me now!


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

sarbonn said:


> To be honest, I don't think this issue has anything to do with how much money you make as a writer in hopes of justifying someone's belief of yourself as a writer. More often than not, this criticism comes from people who see "you're not a writer" as some kind of passive-aggressive assault on someone in a way that has absolutely no defense. No matter what you do, the bar is always set just a bit higher than you have already achieved so that the person making the comment can feel superior in some ridiculous way.
> 
> When I first started out writing, I used to get these comments from non-writers all the time, quite often with the other correlated throw-away comment of "I've been meaning to write my own book, but I just haven't found the time to do it yet" which is passive-aggression trying to say: "I'm too important to waste my time on writing, but I'm obviously smart enough to do all of the work you've been doing for decades."
> 
> Whenever I run into one of these people, and you run into them all the time, I immediately delete them from my life and seek out other colleagues or friends. If it's someone I can't avoid, then that person gets second class citizenship status from me to the point where nothing that person says is of any significance to me whatsoever. There are way too many people out there who want to make themselves feel better by bringing down others. Don't enable them, and their job is that much harder.


This is my take on it, too, and also my way of dealing with it.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Ty Johnston said:


> That's what I was told today.
> 
> My response?
> 
> "Well, then I'll make sure to contact all my bill collectors and let them know they're not being paid with real money."


Gee, I haven't gotten that one in a long time. I thought those days of nascenit jealousy and traditional bias were over. But perhaps i never bothered me much.(Us gay folk are told we're not really people most of our lives, and that's white noise now, unless you're in Uganda, whhere you ight swing for it . . . or Wyoming where you'd decorate a fence). I didn;t think people remembered vanity publishing anymore . .. you know, they're not really publisher folkds. 

Edward C. Patterson


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> LOL. That was still the non-fiction! Suddenly required reading in some classes.  NOT the erotica! He still doesn't know. He'll never know. There are some things a kid doesn't need to know about his mom.


HA! I'm glad you cleared that up, because I was a little  there for a second.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> (The hell of it is, I grew up feeling like I was petite and feminine because my sister is 6'2". I am the shortest one in my family.)


I had almost the exact opposite in my family. My dad once said something like, "You're kind of tall."

Me: "Dad, I'm 5'2"...maybe."

Dad: "Yes, but in this family, you're one of the taller ones."

And he was right. I have one sister who is 4'11 and another 5'0. My older sister is practically a giant at 5' 4".

Also, I have a brother only 5' 3" and my dad is about 5'6" or so. Luckily, my short brother has a big personality and his height never seemed to be a big factor in anything. He married a woman a little taller than he his, but being a short man is probably as hard for them as it is being a tall woman.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> See, that's part of the elitism that seems to run rampant through the literary world, though at various levels by different institutions or individuals. I occasionally see a little of this in other professions, but not to the levels I see in writing and publishing.


It seems to exist in lots of parts of the literary world. Anyone notice the distinction some independents make between professional and amateur authors?


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

It is odd that this attitude exists in the literary world while Indie Film Makers and Indie Music Artists are not treated in this manner.  In the past ten years the Academy has awarded 87 Oscars to Independent Films over 22 categories.  It's interesting that they are winning to accept Indies into their prestigious awards ceremonies while Indie Authors are shunned on most levels.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Lady Vine said:


> LOL. I'm imagining this being said in a Mafia boss kind of voice.


I look like a cross between Buddha and Tony Soprano...


----------



## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Duane Gundrum said:


> When I first started out writing, I used to get these comments from non-writers all the time, quite often with the other correlated throw-away comment of "I've been meaning to write my own book, but I just haven't found the time to do it yet" *which is passive-aggression trying to say*: "I'm too important to waste my time on writing, but I'm obviously smart enough to do all of the work you've been doing for decades."


That says a lot about you, Duane. It's not that they think you're wasting your time, it's that they have other priorities, like vegging out in front of the television. And that's their prerogative. We all have 24 hours in a day, but we divide our time according to our priorities.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Would you rather be known as a real writer with 100 sales/month, or a pretender with 10,000 sales per month?

I'll take the sales over the label, and gleefully concede I'm an amateur wanna-be pretender..


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I'd actually settle for the 100 sales a month.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

LeonardDHilleyII said:


> It is odd that this attitude exists in the literary world while Indie Film Makers and Indie Music Artists are not treated in this manner. In the past ten years the Academy has awarded 87 Oscars to Independent Films over 22 categories. It's interesting that they are winning to accept Indies into their prestigious awards ceremonies while Indie Authors are shunned on most levels.


... Apart form those who matters most: the readers.

Most of the time, I don't think the readers care who publishes their book. If it's professionally written, edited, designed and covered, they wouldn't even question the "validity" of it.


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## elalond (May 11, 2011)

IMO as long as your books are real for readers, you are a real writer,  no matter how many people say otherwise.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

There's a rabbit test we can give you to verify whether you're a real writer or not. A real writer would be able to turn the following sentence into a tragedy by adding one word: The bunny squatted and pooped perfect pellets.


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## Nathalie Hamidi (Jul 9, 2011)

vrabinec said:


> There's a rabbit test we can give you to verify whether you're a real writer or not. A real writer would be able to turn the following sentence into a tragedy by adding one word: The bunny squatted and pooped perfect pellets.


The TRAGIC bunny squatted and pooped perfect pellets.

or...

The GINORMOUS bunny squatted and pooped perfect pellets.

Both valid, me thinks...   
Second one is heart-wrenching and fills my heart with horror.


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## elalond (May 11, 2011)

Nathalie Hamidi said:


> The TRAGIC bunny squatted and pooped perfect pellets.
> 
> or...
> 
> ...


I'll give you the horror.

The bunny squatted and pooped perfect pellets on my freshly waxed parquet, then with its strong back legs squashed them into the pores of the wood.

I admit, I used more than one word, but * she puts her hand on her chest, just over her collarbone* I'm an artist and I won't allow myself to be boxed by limitation imposed by others.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

I thought the bunny test involved injecting them with pee and then killing them.* Guess that's probably the test to see if you're a horror author.

* No, seriously, this is an old pregnancy test. They would kill the rabbit to see the effect that the possibly pregnant woman's urine had on the rabbit's ovaries. I didn't make this up, I am not THAT weird.


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## Lindy Moone (Oct 19, 2012)

I was advised just today (by a long time acquaintance who got in touch after a few years) to stop writing and "do something else" because, after all, being at the computer wasn't healthy. This is AFTER I had told her I was proofing a novel for print, which was AFTER she had asked me whether I was still writing. Clueless! Do some people actually not know the difference between writing and typing? (Wait. Don't answer that!)

So I ignored the insult, because I honestly don't think she meant it as such. (She's never read any of my writing, so it can't have been meant as a dig.) I asked her what _she _was doing lately, and she started by saying she does "nothing." (She said it proudly, possibly because she is a woman of considerable inherited "means.") But when pressed, she did admit she "does" travel. I wanted to ask, "And what do you do with it?" Wish I had.

(Is it nasty to wish, just for a second, that the tragic, Ginormous bunny would squat on her face? Yes. Yes, it is nasty.)


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Lindy Moone said:


> I was advised just today (by a long time acquaintance who got in touch after a few years) to stop writing and "do something else" because, after all, being at the computer wasn't healthy. This is AFTER I had told her I was proofing a novel for print, which was AFTER she had asked me whether I was still writing. Clueless! Do some people actually not know the difference between writing and typing? (Wait. Don't answer that!)
> 
> So I ignored the insult, because I honestly don't think she meant it as such. (She's never read any of my writing, so it can't have been meant as a dig.) I asked her what _she _was doing lately, and she started by saying she does "nothing." (She said it proudly, possibly because she is a woman of considerable inherited "means.") But when pressed, she did admit she "does" travel. I wanted to ask, "And what do you do with it?" Wish I had.
> 
> (Is it nasty to wish, just for a second, that the tragic, Ginormous bunny would squat on her face? Yes. Yes, it is nasty.)


Let me give the rabbit some of vr's beer and streudel first. ;0


----------



## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Let me give the rabbit some of vr's beer and streudel first. ;0


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## Clarketacular (Mar 3, 2013)

I haven't gotten that one yet, but I have gotten the strange attitude that people don't really care if I get paid for my work, the implication of which is that they feel writing is not "real work". Just because I enjoy it doesn't mean it's not real work. That frustrates me.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> AH -- but at least you're probably viewed as attractive because of your size. I'm nearly six feet tall, which for a woman is apparently FREAK PROPORTIONS. I was not asked on a date until I was 30 years old (I had to do all the asking prior to that), and I've been rejected by men more times than I can count because "you're too tall to be pretty." (Most of them just said "you're too tall," but a few were kind enough to tack on the last bit as well.)
> 
> Weird how people assume attributes based on physical appearance. Weird, and stupid.
> 
> (The hell of it is, I grew up feeling like I was petite and feminine because my sister is 6'2". I am the shortest one in my family.)


This is surprising. Where did you grow up? I'm six feet tall and haven't had this experience. I'm wondering if it's a regional thing. BTW my sister is 6'1"


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Who was it who said that when he told someone he was a writer, they wrote down "unemployed" under job description?

That says it all. You can't win the argument (don't even bother) when people have that kind of mindset against writers. Yesterday someone told me to "get a job" when I said I am a writer. As if being a writer isn't a job. Tell that to all the indie authors on this board paying mortgage by writing books. Sure, I'm not there yet since I'm struggling to publish. So I get all the insults on your behalf LOL.

It's the same when I tell people I'm a mom. They look at me like "so what's hard about being mom?" I tell you that being a mom to a teenager is harder than being an IT programmer, both of which I've done.

Humans. What to do about them. LOL. I guess I'll go write more books...


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Humans. What to do about them. LOL. I guess I'll go write more books...


Make them characters in your stories and kill them off....


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> I was advised just today (by a long time acquaintance who got in touch after a few years) to stop writing and "do something else" because, after all, being at the computer wasn't healthy.


Seems if I just do it "somewhere else," many people don't care what I do. Harsh.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

VydorScope said:


> Make them characters in your stories and kill them off....


LOL. Good one!


----------



## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

I dunno. In my office, I was asked to make a 10-minute presentation next Monday (to about 100 co-workers) about my books. Apparently, folks are curious. 

I have no idea what I’m going to talk about, apart form “Er, yeah! Here’s my book! It has a cover and some words inside! Any questions?”

I’m preparing the best one-liners to fend off the usual questions of who’s my publisher and what is my usual print run.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

If you were a real writer, you could churn out a novel every day.   If Betsy were a real quilter, it would only take her an hour from start to finish to make a king size double wedding ring quilt.  If someone was a real cross-stitcher they could do a 250,000 stitch on 32 count linen wall hanging in less than a day.    A real knitter/crocheter can turn out a large man's sweater in 3 hours.  Cause you know, none of this stuff is hard and we are just sitting on our backsides anyway.

Now before you all throw Atlas Shrugged and the entire works of Shakespeare at me and Betsy starts stitching me, please know that I am teasing.   Though Betsy could probably do a doll house size patchwork quilt in an hour.    I know it takes forever to make a double wedding ring quilt.    It takes me a day to do less than a 6" square cross stitching.   Now on the crochet thing: I did have someone ask me for crocheted Dallas Cowboy pajamas and he wanted them in 2 days.   That was good for a laugh.   Yes, he got turned down for various and assorted reasons.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

I've never received the "you're not a real writer" comment in person, although some of the people who discover that I self published let their disdain show in other ways. As a result, I just tell people about my day job (software developer) when they ask what I do. I have nothing to prove to anyone but myself and my readers. The payments I got from the retailers this month are proof enough for me.

However, I have been told I wasn't a real writer on my blog. I published a post about how I use a beat sheet to organize my stories. Here's one of the responses I got. The commenter used "You Suck" for his post name:

[quote author="You Suck"]
Now that anyone can self-publish, everyone and their mother claims to be a "Writer" LoL. One look at your "beat sheet" is proof enough of that (you don't even title the necessary stages of plot let alone explain them, LoL). And before you respond (or, more likely, delete my comment as fast as possible so no one else happens to see it) PLEASE list the publishing house that you sold your original work to . . . EXACTLY. You, sir, are NOT a writer, and thus should stop 1. claiming to be, and 2. stop claiming you possess knowledge that would help other writers. 
[/quote]

I could have deleted the comment, but I let go through. Here was my response:



> I approved the above comment because it demonstrates something that everyone who self publishes will have to deal with at some point or another: haters.
> 
> I have no idea who "You Suck" is because the coward refused to use his/her own name. That's okay. This anonymous attempt to tear down my confidence and disparage my work means nothing to me.
> 
> ...


----------



## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

DRMarvello said:


> I've never received the "you're not a real writer" comment in person, although some of the people who discover that I self published let their disdain show in other ways. As a result, I just tell people about my day job (software developer) when they ask what I do. I have nothing to prove to anyone but myself and my readers. The payments I got from the retailers this month are proof enough for me.
> 
> However, I have been told I wasn't a real writer on my blog. I published a post about how I use a beat sheet to organize my stories. Here's one of the responses I got. The commenter used "You Suck" for his post name:
> 
> I could have deleted the comment, but I let go through. Here was my response:


Dude, clearly you're not a writer if you don't title the necessary stages of plot. What's the matter with you. Title those, and THEN you can call yourself a writer.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Dude, clearly you're not a writer if you don't title the necessary stages of plot. What's the matter with you. Title those, and THEN you can call yourself a writer.


See this is where I can excel!

Stage 1: The Start
Stage 2: The Middle
Stage 3: The End

There!


----------



## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

vrabinec said:


> Dude, clearly you're not a writer if you don't title the necessary stages of plot. What's the matter with you. Title those, and THEN you can call yourself a writer.


I know, I know. I really should have considered myself lucky that an expert came along to set me straight.



VydorScope said:


> See this is where I can excel!
> 
> Stage 1: The Start
> Stage 2: The Middle
> ...


Thank you. I'll try to remember those for my next novel.


----------



## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

DRMarvello said:


> I know, I know. I really should have considered myself lucky that an expert came along to set me straight.
> 
> Thank you. I'll try to remember those for my next novel.


Just remember... if your doing EPIC FANTASY there are two more stages...

Stage 1: The Start
Stage 2: The Middle
Stage 3: The False End
Stage 4: The End
Stage 5: The Overly Long Epilogue


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

vrabinec said:


> Dude, clearly you're not a writer if you don't title the necessary stages of plot. What's the matter with you. Title those, and THEN you can call yourself a writer.


I agree. Man, you failed big time on that.

I wonder what that person would say to me? I don't ... wait for it ... plot before I do a complete first draft. Then I step back and look where I can add or remove.

My plot stages are:

1. No book. 
2. Have book.

Clearly I'm not real. I'm also imagining the ridiculously expensive hand-made Swiss chocolates I'm having now that I bought with my latest Amazon check.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Austin_Briggs said:


> I agree. Man, you failed big time on that.
> 
> I wonder what that person would say to me? I don't ... wait for it ... plot before I do a complete first draft. Then I step back and look where I can add or remove.
> 
> ...


Share the chocolates or it didn't happen.


----------



## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Share the chocolates or it didn't happen.


+1


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Share the chocolates or it didn't happen.


Come on over! I also have wine.


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm not a real writer? Hey! Who have you been talking to....it's all lies! Lies I tell you!


----------



## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

People who write books actually have it a bit better than other kinds of writers.

TV and Movie writers are largely ignored because everyone knows that the REALLY important people when it comes to movies are the directors and actors, for example.

And dear lord, comics. I did a webcomic for three years with my best friend as the artist. I did writing duties, ran the site, modded the forum, did all the talky stuff--not to mention created the series, universe and most of the characters... and yet was constantly accused of taking advantage of the _real_ talent. I'm not knocking her talent or contribution, but it was clear that the assumption is that the writing in comics can be done by any monkey with a keyboard.

...That it _is_ being done by any monkey with a keyboard and the title Editor over at the Big Two nonwithstanding.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Dude, clearly you're not a writer if you don't title the necessary stages of plot. What's the matter with you. Title those, and THEN you can call yourself a writer.


Wait a minute. Don't forget diagramming sentences. How can you possibly write in English if you can't diagram a sentence? You know, like so:









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190736490/

"There once lived, in a sequestered part of the county of Devonshire, one Mr Godfrey Nickleby: a worthy gentleman, who, taking it into his head rather late in life that he must get married, and not being young enough or rich enough to aspire to the hand of a lady of fortune, had wedded an old flame out of mere attachment, who in her turn had taken him for the same reason." - Charles Dickens, Nicholas Nickelby, Chapter 1, Paragraph 1a 
http://www.classicreader.com/book/303/1/


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Wait a minute. Don't forget diagramming sentences. How can you possibly write in English if you can't diagram a sentence? You know, like so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I just had a seizure at the sight of that.


----------



## Guest (Oct 22, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Wait a minute. Don't forget diagramming sentences. How can you possibly write in English if you can't diagram a sentence? You know, like so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some things you just can't unsee...


----------



## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)




----------



## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

VydirScope: LOL! Good one! 

Well, folks, we've all passed the test. We can now declare ourselves real writers. We have "seen" it. Your certificate is in the mail... via Kobo.

I guess I'd better get back to work... These dog days of summer -- what! It's not summer anymore? Fall are wearing me down...









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190720094/


----------



## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Austin_Briggs said:


> Come on over! I also have wine.


Note to self: Austin Briggs. From Switzerland. Has expensive chocolate and wine.

I must never let my wife know you exist.


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## R. K. Clark (Oct 6, 2011)

DAWearmouth on October 08 said:


> One that drinks coffee at night and alcohol in the morning.


You mean I've been a real writer since college? I wish someone would have told me this!


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

When you don't have an agent or publisher, the same special box can be checked by claiming real or professional writer status.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

JanThompson said:


> Wait a minute. Don't forget diagramming sentences. How can you possibly write in English if you can't diagram a sentence? You know, like so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That just gave me acid reflux. I think I threw up in my mouth a little.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

cinisajoy said:


> If Betsy were a real quilter, it would only take her an hour from start to finish to make a king size double wedding ring quilt.


Art quilters are told all the time that they are not "real quilters." If it isn't done by hand and go on a bed, it's not a quilt. *shrug* Their biases are their problems, not mine. People who don't know me have no power over me....

And the sentence diagram graphic is going to give me nightmares...

Betsy


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Art quilters are told all the time that they are not "real quilters." If it isn't done by hand and go on a bed, it's not a quilt. *shrug* Their biases are their problems, not mine. People who don't know me have no power over me....
> 
> And the sentence diagram graphic is going to give me nightmares...
> 
> Betsy


In a quick look at 3 quilts, one is hand done and the other two are machine done. All three were made by the same person. I think (I am not gonna go get it out of the closet) the king size double wedding ring was pieced by hand and machine quilted. It was a wedding present from my grandmother. After she finished it, she threatened to smother me with it if the marriage did not work. Yes, the marriage worked and yes the quilt stayed on the bed for years. It is now put up because it was getting a touch worn. 
So whether you machine or hand sew a quilt, it is a ton of work.

Lesson here is : *People that are not artists (creative) have absolutely no clue as to the work involved.*
This does not apply to those married to the artists.


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## Blerch (Oct 17, 2013)

I became convinced that I was a real writer when I started losing sleep due to:

- excitement over a scene I wanted to write
- too many ideas were flooding into my head (due to lack of alcohol)
- that sentence diagram

Seriously. If I have a dream about that, I'm going to write a short story where it destroys New York City. Or something.


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## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

"And you madam are no lady."  Was that Winston Churchill or maybe W.C. Fields?  I can't remember.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Art quilters are told all the time that they are not "real quilters." If it isn't done by hand and go on a bed, it's not a quilt. *shrug* Their biases are their problems, not mine. People who don't know me have no power over me....


In my history of hobbies, I was an avid quilter once among other fun stuff. When I was a newbie, I got the idea that the "right" way to make a quilt was entirely by hand. It started out as a labor of love, but after weeks, it just fizzled into plain labor. So I bucked status quo, whipped out my sewing machine, and finished the quilt in a day. I still have it. Thereafter I made lots of quilts -- baby quilts, throws, bedspreads, etc. With my handy, dandy Singer. In fact, I even used my serger every now and then to cut and edge at the same time. As such, I didn't belong to any quilting guild. Too hybrid for the purists LOL.

In some sort of the same way is being a writer. The idea of branding a writer as "real" or not stemmed from the mindset that a writer's "worth" is provided by literary agents and publishers. Who died and made them gods? Some people say ya gotta go through the teeth-pulling ritual of querying agents and being rejected and querying again, as if through that process is the cleansing of your soul. If that is the truth, then why is the stinky slush pile always there?

Reality check: agents are mere mortals, not demigods, and rejection letters are not your tickets to paradise. Do I want an agent? Oh yes, that would be fun and might open more doors if I can keep my royalties up and whatever other fine prints and caveats, but I won't get an agent at the expense of my craft and creative freedom.

One thing I remind myself - if my self worth is determined by another mere mortal, then my self worth is subject to change as the weather changes, but if my self worth is based on the divine, then it is well with my soul. But this is just me. To each his/her own.









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190717810/


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