# The Spear of Destiny & Area 51



## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

Ok, I'm driving down to Nevada on Tuesday to film with a SyFy crew on the show *Ancient Artifacts*, which is new. The topic is the Spear of Destiny, and I'll be talking about how if it came to the US it ended up at Area 51. I've written about this topic and researched it extensively, but I'm open to more input before we film on Thursday. Do you believe that the Spear still exists? Is the one in Europe a fake? Was Patton killed because of it? All sorts of neat and interesting theories. Did Majestic-12 take it?


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## traceya (Apr 26, 2010)

Sorry Bob I have to confess I'm not a believer in the Spear of Destiny for the same reason that I'm not a believer in finding the Ark of the Covenant. As you may already know I'm a Christian, albeit a slightly esoteric one, but the whole point of much of God's Word revolves around not worshipping idols. God buried Moses personally so that no one would know where the great prophet was buried and thus have it become a shrine and a site of worship which would detract from worshipping the true God [totally my own personal beliefs here btw] so to follow from that reasoning it's highly unlikely that objects like the Spear of Destiny or Ark of the Covenant or Noah's Ark etc will EVER actually be found and proven because they would almost immediately become focuses of worship or, as God says, idols.

On another note I think your books look absolutely fascinating and would love to chat with you in greater depth


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## Indy (Jun 7, 2010)

Okay I confess that I saw Constantine and still managed to forget that I ever heard of the spear of destiny.  Having looked it up kinda quickly, I have a question.  The thing was used to harm Christ; wouldn't that make it sort of a cursed item, and not one to be revered?


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## Ian Fraser (Mar 8, 2011)

first off, I don't believe Patton was killed because of anything esoteric - he wanted to move in on Russia, and the higher ups were against it. It was easier for the OSS (the forerunners of CIA) to simply kill him. especially given that he was a very good potential future President. he was very popular with the public. Other forces didn't want him in any political race.

As far as Area 51 goes, that's been the scene of disinformation since Kenneth Arnold first saw what a journalist coined 'flying saucers.' If you look at the pix of what Arnold drew - they're clearly a) not circular and b) are Stealth wings. Yet the circular shape notion persisted and was promoted heavily in media and subsequent psy-ops. I veer towards applied Nazi technology disguised as 'extraterrestrial aliens.' It took nearly forty years for what Arnold drew and people were saying they saw, to be revealed as 'Stealth' technology. Its standard knowledge that military tech is anywhere from a decade to two or three decades ahead of civilian technology. Most of what is called 'UFO' (IMHO) are black ops projects. You might also want to read the book by Jane's Defence Weekly (A globally respected military hardware journal) editor Nick Cook 'The Hunt For Zero Point' ( http://www.amazon.com/Hunt-Zero-Point-Classified-Antigravity/dp/0767906276 )- looking at the subject of 'UFO' and advanced Nazi technology. (Given that the Third Reich already had guided heat seeking missiles and other advanced tech by the mid forties, them having a form of propulsion the ignorant would think were aliens, is not inconceivable.) Look at the so-called 'foo fighters' - these were automatic flying balls designed to follow engine exhausts and emit EMP's to try switch off airplane engines. It was just pure luck that the various advances by the Germans came too late to be entirely applicable to the war effort.
It was Nazi tech that helped NASA land people on the Moon - thanks to the data detailed in decompression chamber experiments in WWII concentration camps. 
Werner von Braun was just one of thousands of overt Nazi scientists grabbed by the Allies and put to work either by NASA or the Dpt of Energy (those famous A-bomb tests that irradiated soldiers and helped cause the rise of cancer in modern America, were often overseen by the same scientists who watched torture unfold in concentration camps in the name of science. Look up 'Operation Paperclip' - the classified program which facilitated Nazi scientists and their work easy passage into America.
As for Majestic 12 - take a look at the killing of the Secretary of Defence James Forrestal in '49 - and ask yourself 'why.' There were murky figures lurking in the political arena in the tail end of the war and well into the 50's - when MKULTRA formally began, leading to the gradual assassination and death squads programs that one by one, killed off just about every effective 'progressive' political figure in US politics.

/geek mode off


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

Bob Mayer said:


> "...I'm driving down to Nevada on Tuesday..."


Have a great visit here....weather-wise, you could not have picked a better time....

P.S. When I need a break from the desert, I stomp around your neck of the woods (Port Townsend/Whidbey Island)


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

Yes, I know about Paperclip, used it extensively in book, and the reality is Area 51 is labeled that because military training bases have training areas named with number.  Groom Lake is the longest landing strip in the world.  And I use a German scientist as the center of the book, via the OSS.  And Patton, well I have The Line kill him in another book because he was such a troublemaker--some generals are good war generals, but not good peacetime ones.  Unfortunately, nowadays, we seem to have only the peacetime, political ones.  I'm just having fun, tossing things out there.  But I've also found truth is indeed stranger than fiction.  In my novels I try to use 95% fact and then throw in a little dose of fiction like:  the aliens did it.  I find the not worshiping idols thing a bit weird given the numbers of churches, artifacts, etc involved in organized religion but I will not delve deeper into that.  Actually, Barry Sadler wrote a pretty cool series, Casca the Eternal Mercenary, with the protagonist being the Centurion who thrust that spear into Christ's side and was cursed to wander the world forever, always fighting.
It's fiction and the crew is from the SyFy channel.


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## Ian Fraser (Mar 8, 2011)

re Groom Lake - I used to read, back in the mid 90's and early 'net days, an online newsletter called The Desert Rat, covering the goings on in the region.
Given the ability well back in the 60's to cause the dissolution of memory by chemical means, and control the brain (Jose Delgado's famous stopping a charging bull experiment comes to mind) the whole alien meme and 'alien abduction' nonsense, I think helps hide advanced military tech and keeps the credulous busy with fanciful ideas. 
Ever run across the late Phil Schneider - and what he was saying? Or William Cooper? (of 'Behold a Pale Horse' fame)? Funny how both ended up dead.
Nonetheless, the 'aliens' meme remains popular to the public. I think its the perfect smokescreen. 
/geek mode off


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

Oh yeah-- perfect smokescreen.  If I was really gonna hide something, I'd put it on Johnston Atoll.  No one can drive up there and no one wants to go there, given what they're publicly doing.


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## traceya (Apr 26, 2010)

Totally agree with Ian's comments re Black Ops technology being mistaken for UFO's. I've never really been able to buy into the whole alien thing personally - not that I think they don't possibly exist I just don't buy the idea that they're dropping in here performing anal probes or whatever and then just flying off again. When ET lands I think we'll all pretty much know about it - just my opinion of course.
And yes Bob, you're totally correct that there are thousands of 'idols' in multitudes of church's around the world but they're all man things with no real spiritual background [again just my opinion] whereas objects like the Spear, if it existed, do have a greater spiritual significance, although I think Tab's right when she says that from a Roman point of view the spear would be nothing but a spear - Christianity was a barely recognizable and tiny off shoot cult of Judaism. The Romans of the time had no idea what Christ would eventually come to mean so it's highly doubtful they would've done anything with the spear other than spear somebody else.

Very interesting discussion btw


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

T.L. Haddix said:


> Okay, I'm talking completely out of my big toe here, and I know next to zilch about the history of the alleged spear, but if I were to speculate, I would say no. The reason behind that is simple - think of who Jesus was to the Romans in those days. Most of his followers were humble folk, and I just can't see a Roman soldier handing his weapon over because it pierced the side of the messiah of a then-small cult. From a logical perspective, it doesn't make sense.
> 
> The ark of the covenant makes sense, that it would still exist. It was a revered object, and would have been protected by the powers that be. The holy grail, if indeed the cup Christ used at the Last Supper, would even make sense, ditto the shroud of Turin. But the spear? No. I just don't buy it. Be neat if it were, though.
> 
> So you're going on set with SyFy? How freakin' awesome is that?!? Okay, geeky moment over, lol.


ditto, ditto, ditto


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## Glenn Bullion (Sep 28, 2010)

traceya said:


> Totally agree with Ian's comments re Black Ops technology being mistaken for UFO's. I've never really been able to buy into the whole alien thing personally - not that I think they don't possibly exist I just don't buy the idea that they're dropping in here performing anal probes or whatever and then just flying off again. When ET lands I think we'll all pretty much know about it - just my opinion of course.
> And yes Bob, you're totally correct that there are thousands of 'idols' in multitudes of church's around the world but they're all man things with no real spiritual background [again just my opinion] whereas objects like the Spear, if it existed, do have a greater spiritual significance, although I think Tab's right when she says that from a Roman point of view the spear would be nothing but a spear - Christianity was a barely recognizable and tiny off shoot cult of Judaism. The Romans of the time had no idea what Christ would eventually come to mean so it's highly doubtful they would've done anything with the spear other than spear somebody else.
> 
> Very interesting discussion btw


I've always found it to be that people who say "i don't buy into aliens" are aliens themselves. Misdirection, as it were.

Hmm.....


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

They're all around us. Like right over-- there.
Oh yes, black ops technology has been mis-identified all the time for UFOs. When the SR-71 was first being flown, it's weird shape, high speed and altitude, etc. jolted a lot of people.

_--- edited... no self-promotion (book covers, web links, mentioning your book/blog/etc.) in posts outside the Book Bazaar forum. please read our Forum Decorum thread. future posts containing self-promotion *will* be deleted without notice._


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

"spear of destiny"--no.  Maybe, somewhere, there remains the spear or portions of it that was used to pierce Jesus, but fanciful powers?  Nope.

Patton died in a car accident.  Plain and simple.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Of course the objects in question existed.  And I guess if they are still around, they may hold some power.  They'd certainly be sacred (although no need to worship them and I'm not sure why anyone would think so.)  The possibility always exists for something like that to be abused.

I really enjoy books that speculate and use such objects a the Holy Grail, Spear of Destiny and such.  I'm less interested in the conspiracy type theories of modern man, but that's probably because my knowledge of history isn't strong enough to recognize the fact/fiction parts.


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm a fiction writer.  I take facts and put different twists on them.  I do find people who say "Plain and simple" as if they were standing there and saw it happen as hard to swallow as those who say the Spear of Destiny was behind the atomic blasts at the end of World War II.  
I don't pretend to know the answers unlike our news channels that tell us what to think.  As someone once said "The truth is out there" but no one really knows what it is.  We have best guesses and best conclusions based on evidence.  But the evidence has been wrong more often than people realize.  I did extensive research into Patton's death for a book-- talked to the nurse who took care of him after his accident.  Had access to recently unclassified documents and also the archives at my Alma Mater, West Point, which also happens to have been Patton's.


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## Bob Mayer (Feb 20, 2011)

As I've mentioned earlier, I embrace not knowing.  I've learned then what I start believing I really know something, I'm usually wrong.  I don't think there are aliens at Area 51, but I do think there's some very strange stuff.  The Black Budget is huge and there's no oversight for what it's being spent on.
Most people think I make my science fiction up, but I use 95% fact and then add in fictional reasons.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Spear of Destiny - I couldn't read all of these posts because I'm too lazy so if anyone has said this already, I'm glad to know that someone else knows the truth about the Spear of Destiny. 
The Romans used their spears to pierce the sides of crucifixion victims in order to make sure they were dead before taking them down. The Roman Soldier who pierced Christ's side was a member of the Christian Cult. Once he had pierced the Christ's side, he preserved the spear point with the blood on it because the blood was "Holy Blood". The spear did not hurt the Christ because he had already passed on from his material body when he was speared. How do I know this to be true? I'm psychotic psychic.

As far as where it is now, how it was passed down or who had it? I don't know, but it makes a good story at any rate.

Area 51? Some of best friends are from Area 51 and they are not aliens, they are citizens.


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