# Is this company legit? Author Incubator



## Blerg et al. (Mar 27, 2015)

Anyone familiar with Angela Lauria's company "Author Incubator"?


Edited: They are hiring staff and editors. (I don't live in the area but I'm looking for a friend.) So I'm curious what kind of business they run, not whether I should publish with them.


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## Blerg et al. (Mar 27, 2015)

Acheknia said:


> Never heard of it so I Googled, didn't read it all, just enough to say RUN!
> 
> _Edited to remove link. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


See, I read that. Then on the second page, the owner of that website claims that the owner of the company once flirted with him and said he was her ex boyfried even though he wasn't...wierd. A red flag on both parties.

---

They are hiring staff and editors. (I don't live in the area but I'm looking for a friend.)

I'm not saying they are a vanity press. That is for other people to determine. But even if they were, some vanity presses aren't bad to work for, even if I would never publish with one.

I'll edit my original post to make it more clear.


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

Here's what Dr.(?) Lauria has to say about her books and programs:

She gave away 1500 free eBooks - not to help people solve problems, but just to find people with a problem she can charge them for: * "...if you use your book to find 20 people with the problem you solve and then sell those people a $5,000 program, you can have a $100,000 book launch without a huge marketing budget and pre-established audience."* (https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/292984)

In short, she doesn't care if anyone buys her books, only that enough people read them and enough of those readers then sign up for the programs she offers. It's not illegal or even immoral. Shrewd, yes, but she is not interested in writing as a career, or even hobby, as most authors are. Perhaps looking to see how many of her books are best sellers would be a good indicator if she can follow through on her promises. _Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach _(G. B. Shaw)?

As to the site denouncing the woman and her work... welllll, maybe not so much. Many of the claims there appear as wild as some made by Ms Lauria on any number of her sites (most notable is the number of best sellers she has published, but that doesn't mean they weren't best sellers on a less well known BSL). A huge difference, though, is that the alleged scammer uses a name that can be researched, but the scam-claimer is completely anonymous. Even hides identity of owner of the domain name behind a privacy guarantor. That says more about her/his program than everything the expose site says about Lauria.

My money goes on both being less than preferred business partners.

If Friend has a problem he/she thinks can be solved by the business, maybe Friend should invest in that solution. There is a reason it's called _investing _*not *_a sure thing_.

On the other hand, there's a different glove, and if Friend is looking for employment and the business is hiring people with her/his talents, they can submit an application and see what shakes out. Who knows, maybe Friend will make a lot of money there and treat her/his friends to dinner or a drink.


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## Blerg et al. (Mar 27, 2015)

Thanks OhMo, for looking into it. 

I've seen all I need to see. 
It's not a blatant scam, so I'm going to keep my trap shut and let said friends make their own choices.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

It's a blatant scam if they claims and promises are false.

Illegal? In some places, yes, some not. 

Immoral? I'd say so, if they're lying in order to entice suckers to pay money for things that never get done.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> Immoral? I'd say so, if they're lying in order to entice suckers to pay money for things that never get done.


Unethical behavior, which we see a lot of in this business. It shows up just about everywhere, though. Hucksters. Shysters. Snake oil salesmen. Ponzi schemes. Every segment of business and faith has them.

If it were my friend, I'd at least let them know the company isn't all that honest, and let them determine if they can live with whatever scammy crap they'll probably have to do to make a buck.


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

David VanDyke said:


> It's a blatant scam if they claims and promises are false.
> 
> Illegal? In some place,, some not.
> 
> Immoral? I'd say so, if they're lying in order to entice suckers to pay money for things that never get done.


What's the scam? Doesn't take a lot to find information, in well respected journals, that contradicts what the anonymous complainer said. Any verifiable evidence Lauria makes false claims and promises?

In what jurisdiction is it illegal? Maybe links to reports of arrests or law suits won against the woman might give the assertion of illegality credence. One case of sour grapes, generally, is not sufficient evidence to indict, much less convict.

What makes her business immoral? What evidence is there she is lying or not performing the tasks she says she will perform for her clients? One instance of anonymous sour grapes & whining does not make a business or individual immoral. A claim on the scam site states there are a number of people unhappy with services received, and promises to publish those stories, yet two years (according to ICANN, the website went up in 2016) after the website was put up, no one else's story has been told. Where was the claimed class action lawsuit filed? When?

If there's a scam or immoral/illegal act(s) being performed, available evidence indicates it is the anonymous complainer doing them, and not the target business.

_Edited to remove link. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

she-la-ti-da said:


> Unethical behavior, which we see a lot of in this business. It shows up just about everywhere, though. Hucksters. Shysters. Snake oil salesmen. Ponzi schemes. Every segment of business and faith has them.
> 
> If it were my friend, I'd at least let them know the company isn't all that honest, and let them determine if they can live with whatever scammy crap they'll probably have to do to make a buck.


What verifiable acts or statements by Lauria or her business are unethical or dishonest? What is the "scammy crap"? What specific and verifiable evidence is there that Lauria is a huckster, shyster, snake oil salesman, or is running a Ponzi scheme?

Why is there such a rush to crucify a public figure - or anyone for that matter - based on unverified and unverifiable claims made by one anonymous person?


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

OhMo said:


> What's the scam? Doesn't take a lot to find information, in well respected journals, that contradicts what the anonymous complainer said. Any verifiable evidence Lauria makes false claims and promises?


Sure. The claim of author money made vs. the evidence of the book ranking.

One blatant lie exposes the entire enterprise.

From her "Our Results" page:

MAJEED MOGHARREBAN

Majeed went from broke with a book idea to #1 bestselling author with $500,000 in revenue in four months!

Here's Mogharreban's Amazon page. Two books, rankings in the 700,000s. So, an utterly false claim.

https://www.amazon (dot) com/Majeed-Mogharreban/e/B01MTAYDN6

And that's just one. But one big lie is enough to indict.

***Note: I'm not blaming Mogharreban the author in any way. The author is the victim, not the scammer, as far as I can tell.

Additionally, Mogharreban's Amazon author page doesn't even have a picture or a bio. How good can the advice of this service be if it doesn't even address the basics of setting up an author page? Mogharreban has a website, LinedIn profile and other professional-looking web presence touting him as a speaker on business and enterpreneurship, so I doubt he was simply negligent in setting up his Amazon page.

Why the rush to expose? Because this behavior hurts us all, especially new authors.


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

David VanDyke said:


> Sure. The claim of author money made vs. the evidence of the book ranking.
> 
> One blatant lie exposes the entire enterprise.
> 
> ...


How good can the advice from Lauria's service be? Apparently good enough to garner half a million dollars in revenue for the author chosen as an example. So, I ask again, what is the scam? *He *says he made $500,000.00 using her system. How does that make him a victim? Did she promise him a million dollars in four months? How does her service make anyone a victim?

Reference used: www.theauthorincubator.com

What's the lie - blatant or otherwise? Where did anyone state that Mogharreban is an *Amazon *best selling author? I read the blurb and watched the video, and not once was Amazon mentioned concerning this author. A simple 'net search reveals he lives in Quebec, Canada, is involved in the "self help" and "motivational speaking" industries, and one can view many photographs of him, if that is what is desired. A searcher is also shown links to YouTube videos he has created with more visual imaging.

Don't you think that such a terrible person involved in cheating people out of millions of dollars would have been sued multiple times by those she cheated and by state and federal government agencies? Yet, searches for _Angela Lauria _or _Angela Lauria lawsuits_ does not reveal any lawsuits, past or present, but she and her business are given positive mentions in more than one respectable and respected journal. Entrepreneur Magazine link was provided earlier, and here's a link to a positive result published by Huffington Post in an article - not an advertisement: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/finding-your-path-to-leading-a-life-of-purpose-passion_us_58f9084be4b0de26cfeae1cf

Just maybe, for those who *really believe* they are being hurt by Angelia Lauria, her business, or any of the testimonials on her websites (yes, she has more than one), contacting the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and filing a complaint at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/?utm_source=takeaction#crnt&panel1-1 would be more productive and beneficial than supporting a two year old hate campaign on the internet. There's also all the Attorneys General in all the states. Unless folks just want to pretend to be morally outraged about it like Mr. Anonymous Whiner?

So far the only lies I've seen are from the anonymous whiner. No one is being hurt except, maybe, Angela Lauria as the target of so much unfounded ire.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## Blerg et al. (Mar 27, 2015)

I would caution against even well-meaning jokes, if they could be misconstrued as thinly veiled threats. Especially when posting from a new account with so few posts to its credit. It's harder to judge the tone and intentions of someone with whom the community is not familiar.

But I thank you for taking the time to look into the matter and your even-handed treatment of the subject, acknowledging the shaky evidence on both sides.
--
My take on why some reputable business publications have reported on this company:

I think the self-help space has more room/tolerance for this kind of company and a greater willingness to gamble. Regardless of whether the company is using their clients money wisely, there are more folks in that community for whom these fees are a drop in the bucket. Though plenty of others sinking their life savings into their first book, I'd wager...

Also, if one of the publisher's strategies is to use books as a marketing tool for promoting services as a speaker and consultant, then theoretically a small number of sales could net you a large amount of money from other sources. It does give the publisher a certain amount of deniability when making claims about profits.

_Edited to remove quote of now-moderated material. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

- Carl Sagan

No legitimate publicist makes such extraordinary claims.

There is no evidence whatsoever to back up the extraordinary claims.

"Prove it's not true" is not evidence something is true.

I'm not taking the anti/scam site as evidence. I'm only looking at the site itself, looking for any evidence of the extraordinary claims. It's not there. In fact, looking at what we can check of the evidence for the extraordinary claims, it contradicts the claims.

And, amusingly, all the usual tactics--obfuscation, attacking the whistleblower, etc.--are themselves evidence the critics are on the right track.

And again, bottom line, it's incumbent upon those with extraordinary claims to provide extraordinary evidence.


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

So, I got intrigued with the arguments back and forth and had to go check out the website.
All I'm seeing is a writing coach website. Yes, maybe there are high claims, but there are some people out there that do need someone to help them write a book. I don't think celebrities can do it all on their own. 

It all doesn't seem like a scam, but just a writing coach pitch towards self-help and speakers to help bolster their message as speakers. Nonfiction is big in the talk circuit, and I can see why having a book would help give credence to any speaker's talk. Not to mention making money. Doesn't really look like there is anything wrong. The money number claims maybe, but after 11 years of self-publishing, I've seen the ropes.  

I mean, I'd bypass this personally since I can do things on my own and self-teach. Not to mention I am a fully credentialed teacher and taught over 500 kids to read and write over 18 years. So, I know a thing or two about teaching writing. So, the those that can't--teach philosophy is crap. Teaching is very hard, and nothing better to feed the soul. But I digress.

There are some people that need help in learning to write. But I hope anyone starting out just researches well to find what they need to get started. I did that 10 years ago, and found writing groups in my genre to help. Plus, on-line writing courses are another great way. I took 3 courses on-line through my college when I was recuperating for my health a few years ago. Who are we to say what a person's writing process would be or what will help them the most. A writing coach can be helpful to many people while others may prefer on-line writing courses like me. It really depends on the writer and if they have the drive.

I'd recommend to your friend to maybe try it out. Helping people with writing can be rewarding. ;-)


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Wow. This is intriguing to dig down into a little, just to see the mechanics of the PR machine at work!

Take the HuffPo article referenced by OhMo, written by Richard Lorenzen. Richard Lorenzen owns a PR company, Fifth Avenue brands. One of their clients is The Author Incubator. Wandering over to Majeed Moghabarran's website, I look at his Results page: testimonials from Erika Flint, one of The Author Incubator's clients, and Angela Lauria (president of The Author Incubator). Whew. Very interwoven.


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

nomesque said:


> Wow. This is intriguing to dig down into a little, just to see the mechanics of the PR machine at work!
> 
> Take the HuffPo article referenced by OhMo, written by Richard Lorenzen. Richard Lorenzen owns a PR company, Fifth Avenue brands. One of their clients is The Author Incubator. Wandering over to Majeed Moghabarran's website, I look at his Results page: testimonials from Erika Flint, one of The Author Incubator's clients, and Angela Lauria (president of The Author Incubator). Whew. Very interwoven.


Very interwoven. Neat that you dug even further and brought out some additional information without the rhetoric and buckets of adjectives.

I once read that every actor, director, producer, etc. in the American film industry is either related to someone else in the industry or was vetted by someone within the industry. In short, an actor (or director, etc.) who wants to succeed in Hollywood cannot do it without the help of those already there. Advertisements and trailers for new releases are often over the top, and so many of the films are just plain terrible copies of a previous movie, yet there is no clamor about Hollywood being a scam. Maybe not a great analogy, but there it is. One does not succeed in any business without the help of their peers.

Could the preponderance of positive information, no matter its source, be indicative The Author Incubator is a legitimate business actually helping - and not harming - people? I mean there are only two sources of negative information - the anonymous whiner's two year old website that, despite promises, hasn't been updated since its inception, and a few people here with no personal experience with the company and have yet to provide any verifiable information describing the scam they see.

The group seems split along hard lines about the company, but I'll stand behind my original suggestion to Blerg et al. I'd also like to know if they are still hiring editors and how to apply.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

OhMo said:


> Very interwoven. Neat that you dug even further and brought out some additional information without the rhetoric and buckets of adjectives.
> 
> The group seems split along hard lines about the company, but I'll stand behind my original suggestion to Blerg et al. I'd also like to know if they are still hiring editors and how to apply.


I don't have a horse in this race. *shrug* I can see why people are concerned though - you might not be aware that the self-publishing sector of the industry has been particularly plagued with scammers, snake oil salespeople, and people just out for a quick buck... and some of them have brought a lot of disrepute to the sector as a result. Indie authors are, hence, a cautious bunch. If something looks great, we've discovered, it's probably made from plywood and fools' gold.

I don't know you at all, and I'm sure you have the best of intentions in defending this company. I've got to tell you, though - partly because of the relative newness of your account and the deletion of your intro post - you're starting to do their reputation more harm than good, and that last sentence of yours sounds like an appalling attempt by an employee to sound like an enthusiastic stranger. Again, I'm sure it's pure coincidence, since you joined before this thread was started. But it's like in a movie where someone's energetically assisting and the person in trouble yells, "You're making it worse! Stop helping me!" 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2018)

From the website, it appears to be your typical "self-help" guru who charges way to much to tell people things they could figure out with a Google search and a little common sense. A wannabe Tony Robbins. I'm not personally impressed. She comes across as a self-absorbed narcissist to me (what in the 666 Planes of the Abyss is up with the ballroom poses?), which is not someone I would want to work for. But presenting yourself as a prima donna isn't necessarily a scam or immoral. Just not going to attract potential employees that don't want a high-maintenance boss. 

From a marketing standpoint, she is not selling "successful writing" she is selling a "lifestyle." Again, look at the website. Her photo choices. The font choices. Even the color scheme. NONE OF IT is actually WRITER-Focused. It is entirely "Join the 1%" focused. As a publishing professional, that isn't what I do. That isn't really my focus. 

Whether or not the job offers are legit, well, WHAT ARE THEY PAYING? If it is some commission/royalty split scheme...run. Run fast. Run long. But run. If it is a competitive rate that conforms to industry standards, well, okay then. She may come across as a diva, but if she is offering industry rates for the job then maybe we need to actually know the particulars to make a decision.

I find the entire self-help/life coach industry somewhat distasteful. That is my personal opinion. My distaste for it doesn't make it unethical per se. You would have to zero down to the methodology used. 

And whether or not the stories about her are true is besides the point. The problem is that those stories are out there, easily found, and impacting her reputation. As a potential employee, you are colored by your association to your employer. The Court of Public Opinion is a 1000x more dangerous than a Court of Law, because at least in a court of law there is a presumption of innocence. A company that claims to help authors become bestsellers SHOULD be able to manage their own PR better to protect their image. The issue, for me, is not that the stories may or may not be true. The issue is that the company has done such a poor job of protecting their image and reputation. When your own reputation is that much out of control, I question your ability to help me.


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

nomesque said:


> I don't have a horse in this race. *shrug* I can see why people are concerned though - you might not be aware that the self-publishing sector of the industry has been particularly plagued with scammers, snake oil salespeople, and people just out for a quick buck... and some of them have brought a lot of disrepute to the sector as a result. Indie authors are, hence, a cautious bunch. If something looks great, we've discovered, it's probably made from plywood and fools' gold.
> 
> I don't know you at all, and I'm sure you have the best of intentions in defending this company. I've got to tell you, though - partly because of the relative newness of your account and the deletion of your intro post - you're starting to do their reputation more harm than good, and that last sentence of yours sounds like an appalling attempt by an employee to sound like an enthusiastic stranger. Again, I'm sure it's pure coincidence, since you joined before this thread was started. But it's like in a movie where someone's energetically assisting and the person in trouble yells, "You're making it worse! Stop helping me!"
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Strange how asking for verifiable evidence of wild accusations are considered defense of anything. When you don't have a horse in the race or a dog in the hunt, and don't want others to comment on your posts or ask you questions, perhaps not posting would be the better choice.

I ask questions because I don't know it all. I also appreciate others' opinions on issues when the opinions fit the issues. It's how I learn - by reading, asking questions for clarification, listening. And thinking in place of blindly following the opinions of those who pretend moral outrage at people or organizations with which they have no first hand knowledge or experience.

And, if we're "just being honest" making comments on how other's remarks are perceived, I must say yours come off as part of the latter. Pretending moral outrage of any intensity is merely a cover for an inability or refusal to think and weigh facts. And if you want to say you're not pretending - well, you'll never convince me.

Now you know a little about me, and I have a challenge for you and everyone else who "think" or "believe" the business asked about in the original post is a scam or harmful to others in any way: Stop selling your books. Give them away and expect nothing in return. Why? Because that is what ya'll are asking of Dr. Lauria - to cease and desist in her chosen profession. Your dislike of it, and my skepticism of it, do not make her a liar, cheat, shyster, thief, or anything else other than someone making their way in the world. *Unless there is some verifiable evidence to the contrary, she has done nothing illegal, immoral or wrong,* and a bunch of your owe her a heap of apologies.


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## William Meikle (Apr 19, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The issue is that the company has done such a poor job of protecting their image and reputation. When your own reputation is that much out of control, I question your ability to help me.


This.


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## OhMo (Apr 1, 2018)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> From the website, it appears to be your typical "self-help" guru who charges way to much to tell people things they could figure out with a Google search and a little common sense. A wannabe Tony Robbins. I'm not personally impressed. She comes across as a self-absorbed narcissist to me (what in the 666 Planes of the Abyss is up with the ballroom poses?), which is not someone I would want to work for. But presenting yourself as a prima donna isn't necessarily a scam or immoral. Just not going to attract potential employees that don't want a high-maintenance boss.
> 
> From a marketing standpoint, she is not selling "successful writing" she is selling a "lifestyle." Again, look at the website. Her photo choices. The font choices. Even the color scheme. NONE OF IT is actually WRITER-Focused. It is entirely "Join the 1%" focused. As a publishing professional, that isn't what I do. That isn't really my focus.
> 
> ...


I did not see any of those stories 'out there' except for the anonymous whiner with the website. But, I also did not drill down more than a couple pages of search results. Care to share links to some of those stories? And, if those stories are out there, are they hearsay or first person experiences, and what do you suggest the business do about them? Perhaps the business is more interested in conducting business than they are in swatting flies and other irritating insects.

Going further, anyone not interested in the truth of what is said about any business or any person seems to be in full support of lying, stealing, cheating, and other nefarious, dishonest, and dishonorable acts to get their way. I don't see this one with any middle ground - the only alternative to truth is lies, and one who doesn't support truth supports the other. One who doesn't care if someone else speaks lies - well, that speaks volumes about the listener.

Amazing how the issue moved from _the business is a scam_ to _the business isn't a scam, it just ignores lies others tell about it_. Maybe the real issue has always been that way too many people don't care about truth, and would rather follow the dishonest crowd because it's easy, or dishonesty in others makes them feel their own dishonesties are OK.

Duty, honor, integrity aren't just words or ideals practiced by famous people about whom history is written; they should be the foundation of every writer's life. As writers, I believe we do have a duty to care about truth and to see it is put forth as the only argument in any revelation or discussion. And if we don't have the truth, to demand it.


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## MarilynVix (Jun 19, 2013)

OhMo said:


> I did not see any of those stories 'out there' except for the anonymous whiner with the website. But, I also did not drill down more than a couple pages of search results. Care to share links to some of those stories? And, if those stories are out there, are they hearsay or first person experiences, and what do you suggest the business do about them? Perhaps the business is more interested in conducting business than they are in swatting flies and other irritating insects.
> 
> Going further, anyone not interested in the truth of what is said about any business or any person seems to be in full support of lying, stealing, cheating, and other nefarious, dishonest, and dishonorable acts to get their way. I don't see this one with any middle ground - the only alternative to truth is lies, and one who doesn't support truth supports the other. One who doesn't care if someone else speaks lies - well, that speaks volumes about the listener.
> 
> ...


Well, I was taking this as a debate where people were looking at what they thought about this company from the website. In the end, that is what is out there for a company to pitch itself. Plus, if people want to search to find out more about a company, that's just good sense so they can form their own opinion. Whether it's truth or not, it's more people figuring their own truth so they can make a business decision whether to work with a company or not. That's just good sense. People are just offering their opinion to help people make an educated decision. More than not, everyone will figure out their own truth when they read the facts presented to them.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

OhMo said:


> Strange how asking for verifiable evidence of wild accusations are considered defense of anything. When you don't have a horse in the race or a dog in the hunt, and don't want others to comment on your posts or ask you questions, perhaps not posting would be the better choice.


Riiiiiight. I literally said nothing about not wanting others to comment on my posts or ask me questions. So - huh?



OhMo said:


> I ask questions because I don't know it all. I also appreciate others' opinions on issues when the opinions fit the issues. It's how I learn - by reading, asking questions for clarification, listening. And thinking in place of blindly following the opinions of those who pretend moral outrage at people or organizations with which they have no first hand knowledge or experience.


Great! Listening and questioning to learn is good.



OhMo said:


> And, if we're "just being honest" making comments on how other's remarks are perceived, I must say yours come off as part of the latter. Pretending moral outrage of any intensity is merely a cover for an inability or refusal to think and weigh facts. And if you want to say you're not pretending - well, you'll never convince me.


Errrr... what? Moral outrage? Where? Mate, I'm pointing out that your comments on this moved from questioning to downright defense a few posts ago, and that the owners of the site might not thank you for - as I said, doubtless accidentally - bringing the company into further disrepute. I mean, you basically said, "Gee, I'm keen to work there myself! I wonder how I could find out how to apply!" (Uhhhh, look at their Careers page? Use their Contact page?) Again, since you seem to feel that people replying to you are a monolith of hate rather than several very different authors with varying opinions: I'm not saying you're a company employee. I'm saying you're starting to give that impression, and The Author Incubator might not appreciate the assistance.



OhMo said:


> Now you know a little about me, and I have a challenge for you and everyone else who "think" or "believe" the business asked about in the original post is a scam or harmful to others in any way: Stop selling your books. Give them away and expect nothing in return. Why? Because that is what ya'll are asking of Dr. Lauria - to cease and desist in her chosen profession. Your dislike of it, and my skepticism of it, do not make her a liar, cheat, shyster, thief, or anything else other than someone making their way in the world. *Unless there is some verifiable evidence to the contrary, she has done nothing illegal, immoral or wrong,* and a bunch of your owe her a heap of apologies.


1. Know what about you? What personal information have you offered?

2. Don't be bleeding ridiculous. For a start, I'm not asking her to do anything (where are you getting that impression?). I haven't uttered a word against the company. In fact, nobody in this thread has asked her to stop what she's doing, that I recall. A few have expressed doubt about her business methods, and they've warned friends and associates to be wary.

3. Even if someone had said, "Angela Lauria [sorry if spelling's incorrect, I can't see the rest of the thread to check atm - damn phones] needs to cease her business immediately," that's not the same as working for free. False equivalency.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

OhMo said:


> Amazing how the issue moved from _the business is a scam_ to _the business isn't a scam, it just ignores lies others tell about it_. Maybe the real issue has always been that way too many people don't care about truth, and would rather follow the dishonest crowd because it's easy, or dishonesty in others makes them feel their own dishonesties are OK.


Not amazing at all. You're talking to several different people, all with their different opinions about said company. *shrug*


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Seems to be getting a bit heated in here. Locking for discussion.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


ETA: We'll be leaving this one closed.


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