# Shogun (Update: I just finished it! 3-9-10



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm currently reading Shogun at my sister's recommendation. I never saw the mini series. So far it is very good, but have to struggle a little with the multiple characters,(and keeping up with who is who and what they are), Japanese names for things and complicated story line. I'm currently on Kindle page 3000 or somewhere thereabouts and the book is appox 22,000 kindle pages. It's really good so far. Without giving any of the book away, for those of you who have read it, did you like it? It kind of reminds me of the movie The Last Samurai so far., which is one of my favorite movies.

*Update I just wanted to update everyone to say I have JUST finished the book not one minute ago and it was wonderful!!!!

This book has given me a fascination of Japanese culture of that time. I'm not sure how much of the culture still exists, but I am really taken by how they enjoyed life and how they thought about things. Like one of the posters to this post said, they were such clean people, even in the 1600s, while people from Europe stank from not taking baths but every month or so or even way more. Can we say "pew?"  Oh you men, you would have loved to have lived in this time and place where a man was absolute ruler and a woman's duty was to her husband, and courtesans and consorts were a man's right and it was considered very normal.

However, though Japanese culture of this time had a wonderful way to view life and death, the paradox is that they killed and committed honorable suicide (seppuku) with equal ferocity.

The book was totally enthralling and I could NOT wait to read it when I was away from it. Along with all the chopping off of heads, seppuku, samurai, dameiyos (sp), and fighting and conspiring for power, there was a wonderful, beautiful love story throughout that would make any woman's heart melt. But lastly, the falling in love with another culture by a great man was what made this book for me. It was wonderful, a masterpiece of a book. Now I want to buy the mini-series but can't begin to imagine it doing the book justice. Funny, after getting at least halfway through the book, all I crave to eat is charcoaled fish, rice, and pickled vegetables........*


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> I'm currently reading Shogun at my sister's recommendation. I never saw the mini series. So far it is very good, but have to struggle a little with the multiple characters,(and keeping up with who is who and what they are), Japanese names for things and complicated story line. I'm currently on Kindle page 3000 or somewhere thereabouts and the book is appox 22,000 kindle pages. It's really good so far. Without giving any of the book away, for those of you who have read it, did you like it? It kind of reminds me of the movie The Last Samurai so far., which is one of my favorite movies.


I have never read it. Let me know how you like it when you finish it.


----------



## JeanThree (Feb 22, 2009)

I loved it, one of my favorite books.Have fun!


----------



## Wheezie (Oct 28, 2008)

I almost gave up on it at about 10% through, but I'm glad I stuck with it. It's probably one of the best books I ever read. Once you start getting in to the flow of the the names and the language, it's much easier. I loved it so much I then read Clavell's TaiPan, which I probably like at little more just because the language seemed to flow easier.


----------



## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

I read it many years ago, possibly after the mini-series came out.  I enjoyed it, but it's not something I would reread. I'd say keep reading.

Mike


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I own the hardcovers (two volumes), have read them several times and recently read it on the Kindle. Needless to say it's one of my favorite books. I wish Clavell had written a dozen sequels.


----------



## Raffeer (Nov 19, 2008)

I  read it many years ago. Still remember how wrapped up in it I got. Stick with it. The names will sort themselves out. Also I read Clavall Tai Pan after, enjoyed that too. Shogun, maybe because it was the first contact I had had with the culture really moved me.


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Maybe this picture of Osaka Castle will put you in the mood to finish Shogun, Rhonda:










Many years ago when I first visited Osaka on a trade mission, a dinner meeting was scheduled at a lobster restaurant called Osaka Joe's. On the evening of the meeting I told the taxi driver to take me to Osaka Joe's but I ended up at Osaka Castle. It turns out that _jo_ in Japanese is _castle_.


----------



## Figment (Oct 27, 2008)

I remember _Shogun_ as a "summer book" many, many years ago (when I was a teen). I remember sitting on the porch and reading it by the hour. I loved it!


----------



## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

My husband just finished reading it (again) last week. I also picked up Tai-Pan







for him, he shall be starting that soon. He really likes military novels, and is intrigued by Japanese culture. Myself, I doubt I will ever pick the book up.


----------



## GreenThumb (Mar 29, 2009)

I also read it many years ago.  I remember I had to start writing down names and translations of words and phrases, so I could keep track.  I still have that old piece of yellow legal paper in the book.  Great book!


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> Myself, I doubt I will ever pick the book up.


You're missing a great love story.


----------



## Paegan (Jul 20, 2009)

I have read it multiple times.  It is one of my "stuck on a deserted island" books.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Paegan said:


> I have read it multiple times. It is one of my "stuck on a deserted island" books.


Wow maybe I should think about reading this book.


----------



## askenase13 (Mar 1, 2009)

I am a huge James Clavell fan.  My favorite it Tai Pan, which is my all time favorite novel.  (It is set in Hong Long in the q1840's and deals with the clipper ships and trading wars between rival companies).  I enjoyed Shogun very much, but there is not much ACTION in the book as compared to Tai Pan.

I think you'll really enjoy the plotting and intrigue among the characters, especially Toronaga.


----------



## RavenclawPrefect (May 4, 2009)

Shogun is a great book!  I read it after the mini series came out, when I was in high school.  I went on to read the others in the series by James Clavell.  I have to agree, Tai-Pan was and is my favorite (and please, don't go see the horrid movie by the same name)


----------



## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

The summer I was 14, my whole family read this book -- we kept passing it back and forth with multiple bookmarks in it and arguing about where someone left the book because someone else wanted to read it. We named our new puppy Lord Yoshi Toranaga Sama!

It really is an incredibly fun, compelling read. I've been contemplating getting it on Kindle for a reread ...


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

It there somewhere I can get a list of  characters  for Shogun? If I decided to read it. It would help me to have a list.


----------



## Neekeebee (Jan 10, 2009)

My recommendation: Don't stop reading it in the middle like I did. I read the first 2/3 and really loved it. Then, I got busy with other stuff, and picked it up again about 1/2 year later. Even with much re-reading (skimming parts and reading 100 pages over) I just couldn't get back into the book. I did make myself finish, but it was never the same.

I have _Tai-Pan_ sitting in my Kindle. Keep meaning to get to it...

N 

P.S. Jeff, your "Osaka Joe" story made me laugh out loud!


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Is Shogun stand alone or do the rest of his books continue the story?


----------



## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

As far as I know, Shogun stands alone. He basically put enough material for an entire series into one book!


----------



## dpinmd (Dec 30, 2009)

I read it years ago as a (very heavy) hardcover.  Loved it!  (I loved the miniseries as well, but if I had to choose, I preferred the book.)


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Anne said:


> It there somewhere I can get a list of characters for Shogun? If I decided to read it. It would help me to have a list.


Try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dgun_(novel)



Anne said:


> Is Shogun stand alone or do the rest of his books continue the story?


It stands alone.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Try this:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dgun_(novel)
> 
> It stands alone.


Thank you Jeff


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Thalia the Muse said:


> As far as I know, Shogun stands alone. He basically put enough material for an entire series into one book!


Thank you


----------



## RavenclawPrefect (May 4, 2009)

All of his Asia novels stand alone but there are mentions in each of them of events that have occurred in others.  Noble House refers to Tai-Pan, King Rat and Shogun.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RavenclawPrefect said:


> All of his Asia novels stand alone but there are mentions in each of them of events that have occurred in others. Noble House refers to Tai-Pan, King Rat and Shogun.


Thanks you Ravenclaw for the information.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

I think I will read Shogun after I finish reading The Women in White.


----------



## Neekeebee (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm currently reading _Shike_ by Robert J. Shea, which reminds me a lot of _Shogun_. It was recommended by someone on KB a while back, and is available in Kindle format for free from the author's son's website (just google "Shike"). It is very good, and probably just as lengthy as _Shogun_.

N


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Neekeebee said:


> I'm currently reading _Shike_ by Robert J. Shea, which reminds me a lot of _Shogun_. It was recommended by someone on KB a while back, and is available in Kindle format for free from the author's son's website (just google "Shike"). It is very good, and probably just as lengthy as _Shogun_.


Do you have a Kindle version? All I could find on Amazon was a $149.00 hardcover and some used paperbacks for $12.00. The only free version I found was HTML.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Neekeebee said:


> I'm currently reading _Shike_ by Robert J. Shea, which reminds me a lot of _Shogun_. It was recommended by someone on KB a while back, and is available in Kindle format for free from the author's son's website (just google "Shike"). It is very good, and probably just as lengthy as _Shogun_.
> 
> N


Thanks I just download it


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Anne said:


> Thanks I just download it


From where?


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Do you have a Kindle version? All I could find on Amazon was a $149.00 hardcover and some used paperbacks for $12.00. The only free version I found was HTML.


You have to google it and downloaded it from the son's website. I put shike free e-book and found the website. Then I download the kindle verison.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Here is the link for http://manybooks.net/titles/shearother08shike.htmlshike. I hope the link works

Shike link above


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Anne said:


> You have to google it and downloaded it from the son's website. I put shike free e-book and found the website. Then I download the kindle verison.


Ah, thanks:

http://manybooks.net/titles/shearother08shike.html

EDIT: The formatting is pretty bad.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Ah, thanks:
> 
> http://manybooks.net/titles/shearother08shike.html


You are welcome. I just posted the link too LOL


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Anne said:


> You are welcome. I just posted the link too LOL


I saw that but you had some extra characters after .HTML so I was afraid it might not work on all browsers. Thanks again.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Ah, thanks:
> 
> http://manybooks.net/titles/shearother08shike.html
> 
> EDIT: The formatting is pretty bad.


I have not looked at it yet. I am going to give it a try when I am ready to read it.


----------



## askenase13 (Mar 1, 2009)

I was the person that posted the Shike book.  I liked it very much, and I thought the formatting was fine.  In fact, the Clavell new kindle releases had many more typos.

Shike is like Shogun, but with no western character at the center.  It is very long, dragged a little in the middle.  But I thought the last portion and big sea battle at the end were terrific.

BTW, for those that read TaiPan especially, I always pictured Sean Connery as Dirk Struan.

And the Noble house mini-series was pretty good- but as always, the book is MUCH better.  (Starred Pierce Brosnan, by the way.)


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

askenase13 said:


> I was the person that posted the Shike book. I liked it very much, and I thought the formatting was fine. In fact, the Clavell new kindle releases had many more typos.
> 
> Shike is like Shogun, but with no western character at the center. It is very long, dragged a little in the middle. But I thought the last portion and big sea battle at the end were terrific.
> 
> ...


Thanks I looked at it last night and the formatting did not look that bad to me either.


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

askenase13 said:


> ...and I thought the formatting was fine.


Just to clarify for anyone interested: The author's son has requested that readers send "fixed" chapters to him by email. After looking at the document in that light it seemed to me that 100% needed to be reformatted to fix paragraph alignment, indents, page breaks, etc., so I may have overstated by saying it was "pretty bad". The document is perfectly readable. Thanks for mentioning the book. I'm looking forward to reading it.


----------



## Neekeebee (Jan 10, 2009)

Sorry I neglected to post the link with my recommendation of _Shike_ earlier. Yes, there are quite a few errors in the file, most of which are capital "E" instead of cap "F", e.g. "Eirst" instead of "First", and sometimes Shike appears as something like "[email protected]&." After a while, the errors didn't really bother me too much, and there weren't too many other problems.

It is quite a long read, about 12000 loc, divided into about 4 books, but IMHO, well worth the time. Hope you all enjoy!

N 

P.S. Thanks, Askenase13, for posting about the book on KB earlier; I never would have found it otherwise!

Edited to add: Oh, and the TOC doesn't work after the first 20 chapters or so.


----------



## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Shogun and Gai Gin -  two of my all time favorites, but yes, you almost need a character map to keep track of things.

Clavell's other books (Tai-Pan, King Rat and Nobel House) are about China and follow one family. They are stand alone books, but I'd recommend reading them in order as they make much more sense.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

FearNot said:


> Shogun and Gai Gin - two of my all time favorites, but yes, you almost need a character map to keep track of things.
> 
> Clavell's other books (Tai-Pan, King Rat and Nobel House) are about China and follow one family. They are stand alone books, but I'd recommend reading them in order as they make much more sense.


Thanks I wanted to know if there was an order I should read them. Should I read Gai Gin after Shogun?


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Neekeebee said:


> Sorry I neglected to post the link with my recommendation of _Shike_ earlier. Yes, there are quite a few errors in the file, most of which are capital "E" instead of cap "F", e.g. "Eirst" instead of "First", and sometimes Shike appears as something like "[email protected]&." After a while, the errors didn't really bother me too much, and there weren't too many other problems.
> 
> It is quite a long read, about 12000 loc, divided into about 4 books, but IMHO, well worth the time. Hope you all enjoy!
> 
> ...


Thanks for letting us know about the free copy. I am looking forward to reading it.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

FearNot said:


> Shogun and Gai Gin - two of my all time favorites, but yes, you almost need a character map to keep track of things.
> 
> Clavell's other books (Tai-Pan, King Rat and Nobel House) are about China and follow one family. They are stand alone books, but I'd recommend reading them in order as they make much more sense.


Tai-Pan, King Rat and Nobel House. Is this the order I should read them?


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Anne said:


> Tai-Pan, King Rat and Nobel House. Is this the order I should read them?


_Shōgun_ is set in feudal Japan, 1600
_Tai-Pan_ is set in Hong Kong, 1841
_Gai-Jin_ is set in Japan, 1862
_King Rat_ is set in a Japanese POW camp, 1945
_Noble House_ is set in Hong Kong, 1963
_Whirlwind_ is set in Iran, 1979

The books all stand on their own but I suggest that you read _Tai-Pan_ before _Noble House_.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeff said:


> _Shōgun_ is set in feudal Japan, 1600
> _Tai-Pan_ is set in Hong Kong, 1841
> _Gai-Jin_ is set in Japan, 1862
> _King Rat_ is set in a Japanese POW camp, 1945
> ...


Thank you Jeff


----------



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

I am now 23 percent into this book (kindle page 6,100 of 26,000) and now find myself having a hard time putting it down, and counting the hours until I can get BACK to it!  Really great book so far!


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> I am now 23 percent into this book (kindle page 6,100 of 26,000) and now find myself having a hard time putting it down, and counting the hours until I can get BACK to it! Really great book so far!


It is good to know you are enjoying shogun. I think I will read it next after I finish The Women in White. Which I am enjoying.


----------



## luvmyBOB (Jan 7, 2010)

With all this chat I am going to have to download a sample of Shogun.  (One click is costing me way too much so I am now getting the sample first to make sure it is worth the "click".)  I have been in a reading slump so maybe this will help.


----------



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

Just a word of caution to those who are going to read it.  At the beginning was a mass amount of information overload as far as names go, so many different rulers of different areas of feudal Japan (1600s) and it was very confusing at first.  If it was not suggested by my sister, who I share similar tastes with, I may have given up on it after Kindle page 1000 or something.  But here I am on Kindle Page 7,000 and know more about who is who and it is now so fascinating.  So don't give up, just know it may, or may not be a struggle at first, but well worth it in my opinion.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> Just a word of caution to those who are going to read it. At the beginning was a mass amount of information overload as far as names go, so many different rulers of different areas of feudal Japan (1600s) and it was very confusing at first. If it was not suggested by my sister, who I share similar tastes with, I may have given up on it after Kindle page 1000 or something. But here I am on Kindle Page 7,000 and know more about who is who and it is now so fascinating. So don't give up, just know it may, or may not be a struggle at first, but well worth it in my opinion.


Thanks for letting me know that. After all I have heard about how good the book is,I will try not to give up.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

After all the talk about Shogun I could not wait to start it. I read a little bit last night. So far I like it. I am still reading The Women in White so I will switch back between the two books.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Here's the site for Shike...the author's books are available in HTML format.
http://bobshea.net/

Betsy


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Here's the site for Shike...the author's books are available in HTML format.
> http://bobshea.net/
> 
> Betsy


Thanks Betsy I already have the books. I am sure there are others that would love to have them.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

I got to stay home today because of the snow. I will be able to read more of Shogun .


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Does anyone know how many chapters there are in Shogun?


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

After searching all over I finally find a Character list in a review that someone did for Shogun

http://www.amazon.com/review/R15F1833JA77RT/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encoding=UTF8&cdPage=1&newContentNum=4&newContentID=Mx1AOKN82MCLNOP#Mx1OZVY40H6QWFY

I still wish I could find a better character list.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

I am bumping this thread up. Shogun is a good book. I am glad I saw this thread and started to read the book.


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm about half way finished with _Shike_ and am enjoying it. Other than being a long novel of Japan I don't really see any similarity between _Shike_ and _Shogun_ yet. The formatting isn't as bad on a Kindle as it is on the Kindle for PC app.


----------



## Victoria lane &amp; R.T. Fox (Nov 10, 2009)

Great book, but the movie was better.


----------



## askenase13 (Mar 1, 2009)

For those of you exploring Shogun for the first time (or Shike), I strongly recommend Clavell's novel Tai Pan, which, for me was better than Shogun.  It is set in Hong Kong and Macao in the 1840's and is a battle between two owners of clipper ship companies for domination of the China trade.  More action than Shogun, and the main character, Dirk Struan, really dominates the action, unlike Shogun where Blackthorne watches Toronaga dominate the action.  Similar intrigue and culture exposure.  (For me, I always see Sean Connery as Struan.)


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

askenase13 said:


> For those of you exploring Shogun for the first time (or Shike), I strongly recommend Clavell's novel Tai Pan, which, for me was better than Shogun. It is set in Hong Kong and Macao in the 1840's and is a battle between two owners of clipper ship companies for domination of the China trade. More action than Shogun, and the main character, Dirk Struan, really dominates the action, unlike Shogun where Blackthorne watches Toronaga dominate the action. Similar intrigue and culture exposure. (For me, I always see Sean Connery as Struan.)


Thanks I am thinking about reading Tai Pan after I finish Shogun.


----------



## Christopher Meeks (Aug 2, 2009)

I had read it as a thick paperback long ago and remember loving it. In the intervening years, I realize that my sense of things Asian grew from this book--which is to say that the Asians in this story often appreciated things of beauty in a meaningful way. I'd never been much into history, but Shogun made history come alive. For instance, one of the things that's stayed with me is that many Europeans at one time thought that taking baths was terrible for a person, so a bath once a month was "normal." People used perfume to mask the stench. God, that must have been awful. 

This also reminds me of when I spent my junior year abroad in Denmark and learned that the Danes thought the Americans were rather obsessive about showering. Most people there seemed to shower every two or three days, but I needed my daily shower. I don't remember any Danes stinking. Rather, I loved their country.

I have so many books I want to read, I'm not sure I'll ever reread Shogun, but it led to a Clavell marathon for me at the time--"Tai-Pan," "Noble House" and "King Rat." From there I went onto James Michener, so I liked the thick books for a while. Clavell has remained more vivid than Michener.


----------



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

I just finished this wonderful book a few minutes ago.  Please see my update in the original post.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Rhonda: Thanks for the Update. I am still reading Shogun and I am enjoying it. What are you reading next?


----------



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

Anne said:


> Rhonda: Thanks for the Update. I am still reading Shogun and I am enjoying it. What are you reading next?


Probably Wuthering Heights.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> Probably Wuthering Heights.


Let me know how you like it.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> I just finished this wonderful book a few minutes ago. Please see my update in the original post.


Are you going to read any other of James Clavell's Book's?


----------



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

Probably not for awhile.  Usually when I finish a huge book, my next book will be a shorter one.  Also, I try to change up the subject matter entirely on my next book.  Keeps things fresh for me.  I have still not really decided for sure which book I will read next.  I started on Wuthering Heights today, but somehow converted over to The Last of the Mohican's.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> Probably not for awhile. Usually when I finish a huge book, my next book will be a shorter one. Also, I try to change up the subject matter entirely on my next book. Keeps things fresh for me. I have still not really decided for sure which book I will read next. I started on Wuthering Heights today, but somehow converted over to The Last of the Mohican's.


I am the same way after I finish Shogun. I will take a break before I read another book by him. I will read the other books at some point. Let me know how you like The Last of the Mohican's


----------



## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

I really think my abiding fascination with feudal Japan came from that book! Well, that and the Pillow Book of Sei Shonagon -- but I don't know if I would have read The Pillow Book if I hadn't read Shogun first.


----------



## RhondaRN (Dec 27, 2009)

Thalia the Muse said:


> I really think my abiding fascination with feudal Japan came from that book! Well, that and the Pillow Book of Sei Shonagon -- but I don't know if I would have read The Pillow Book if I hadn't read Shogun first.


Ahhhh.....I know what "pillowing" means now!


----------



## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

RhondaRN said:


> Probably Wuthering Heights.


In my humble opinion "Wuthering Heights" is the greatest English-language novel! But that's just me.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

DYB said:


> In my humble opinion "Wuthering Heights" is the greatest English-language novel! But that's just me.


Thanks I have Wuthering Heights on my TBR List.


----------



## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

RhondaRN said:


> Ahhhh.....I know what "pillowing" means now!


I know what pillowing is now too.


----------



## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

This article isn't "Shogun" related, but it is about ancient Japan. It describes the ritual of self-mummification that some Japanese monks performed. It's pretty disturbing, though, so proceed with caution.

http://cogitz.com/2009/08/24/sokushinbutsu-self-mummified-monks/


----------



## Malweth (Oct 18, 2009)

This thread made me get the book. Started it 26 April 2010 and just finished it today, 14 July.
I've been reading it for a while, but it doesn't seem like a long book! It's very readable and accurate (for historical _fiction_).

I've already purchased Tai Pan, though I may wait a bit before starting it.


----------

