# I think I hate Amazon's review system



## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

Is it me, or people down-vote reviews just because they don't agree with the score?  Drives me nuts.  Personally, I up-vote any review that gives me an idea of whether or not I'll like a book, or if it's one I already read I'll up-vote it if they give good reasons why they hated it even if I loved.  The only ones I down-vote are the "This sucks!" or ones that give faulty information.  


Grrrrr.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

I up-vote and down-vote based on whether the review helped.  I've up-voted positive reviews and I've up-voted negative reviews.  It's about whether the review helped me, not the stars.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

But, yes.  People do do that.  I've pretty much stopped posting reviews because I had my less than stellar reviews down-voted for no reason I could see other than I gave it a 2-star review ...


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

It really has nothing to do with how helpful something it, just whether or not people like it.


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

I have downvoted reviews if I've read the book and think the review is purposely misleading.  I can't abide that kind of thing.


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## emalvick (Sep 14, 2010)

Personally, I've written a lot of reviews and at one point worried about the helpful and not-helpful votes, but I think there is more to it than that.  In a few cases I've written critical reviews of products (not only books) and have found that a couple of helpful votes with helpful comments suggest that it only takes one helpful vote to justify the review.  

I think that if you have a thoughtful review to give whether good or bad, give it.  The audience you are targeting may be small, but in my own shopping I rely on the best written reviews and not the best ratings.  A well written review goes a long way, and I've even purchased items based on highly critical reviews because I could see where the reasons for criticizing might be characteristics I like in an item.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

foreverjuly said:


> It really has nothing to do with how helpful something it, just whether or not people like it.


Except that the question asked is "Was this review helpful to you?" It could be a 1 or 2 star review and actually be very helpful because it explains what the reviewer found wanting. It could also be a 5 star review that just says "this was awesome" which is really not helpful at all.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Except that the question asked is "Was this review helpful to you?" It could be a 1 or 2 star review and actually be very helpful because it explains what the reviewer found wanting. It could also be a 5 star review that just says "this was awesome" which is really not helpful at all.


Oh, yes! You're absolutely correct, I didn't fully articulate that most people treat it as though it is just whether they like something or not. I'm well aware that in reality it is asking something very different.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Except that the question asked is "Was this review helpful to you?" It could be a 1 or 2 star review and actually be very helpful because it explains what the reviewer found wanting. It could also be a 5 star review that just says "this was awesome" which is really not helpful at all.


Yes, I think what people are saying is that the system is being abused and people don't use it as it's meant to be used. Tripadvisor has the same voting system on reviews and there are tons of complaints about how people just down-vote reviews they disagree with, not on how helpful it was. I'm actually highly suspicious that the owners/staff of places reviewed on Tripadvisor get their friends and family to down-vote bad reviews and up-vote good reviews. Every negative review I've ever posted there gets far more down-votes than up-votes even though my reviews are very detailed. It's a common theme among all reviews too, not just mine. This is why I stopped posting reviews on Tripadvisor and why I won't post reviews on Amazon - I post to Goodreads instead which only has a "like" button for reviews and there's no down-vote option.


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## tbrookside (Nov 4, 2009)

I see a lot of people say that they won't review because they're concerned that they'll get negative votes, but I've never really understood why.

The negative votes really have no impact on anything other than what reviews show up first.  All the reviews still count, no matter how many negative votes they get.  

Unless you're really competitive about your reviewer rank, what's the downside to having someone vote down your review?

I'd hate to think that people are being bullied out of leaving reviews because of an anonymous voting system that doesn't really end up doing anything tangible anyway.


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## SuzanneTyrpak (Aug 10, 2010)

emalvick said:


> Personally, I've written a lot of reviews and at one point worried about the helpful and not-helpful votes, but I think there is more to it than that. In a few cases I've written critical reviews of products (not only books) and have found that a couple of helpful votes with helpful comments suggest that it only takes one helpful vote to justify the review.
> 
> I think that if you have a thoughtful review to give whether good or bad, give it. The audience you are targeting may be small, but in my own shopping I rely on the best written reviews and not the best ratings. A well written review goes a long way, and I've even purchased items based on highly critical reviews because I could see where the reasons for criticizing might be characteristics I like in an item.


When I make a purchase for any product, I usually look at the negative and the positive reviews--so much of it is subjective, and I just want to get a feeling about what I'm buying. I do the same thing for recipes online!


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## Cathymw (May 27, 2010)

tbrookside said:


> I see a lot of people say that they won't review because they're concerned that they'll get negative votes, but I've never really understood why.
> 
> The negative votes really have no impact on anything other than what reviews show up first. All the reviews still count, no matter how many negative votes they get.
> 
> Unless you're really competitive about your reviewer rank, what's the downside to having someone vote down your review?


I was wondering the same thing. I will say it's very annoying when you're trying to read all the reviews and have to click around to finally read all the reviews. I wish they'd just have them in chronological order (newest first).

But when I'm reading reviews, I tend to click on all the star levels and read a sample at each level.


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

I've been an Amazon book review junkie (not writing reviews but reading customer reviews) for the past decade.  I considered it great research, both as a reader and writer, just to see what people liked or didn't like and why.  I never pay attention to the votes in deciding whether I find a particular review helpful or not, but have thought on occasion that the system was being abused for certain books. 

That said, discerning readers can usually tell the difference between a thoughtful review and a review with an agenda--for instance, those "this is awesome" reviews with no explanation never sway me.  Also, sometimes I've seen negative reviews where it seemed that the reviewer had a hidden agenda that had little to do with the quality of the book in question but more to do with that particular reviewer's own issues.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

And what difference does it make if someone votes down your review?  Trying to understand here.


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## terryr (Apr 24, 2010)

I vote on reviews based on the decision making information they give me, whether they steered me away from buying a dud or helped me pick a winner. The stars don't matter as much as the insights the review might give combined with a perusal of a sample (or Look Inside on a print book)


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

KindleChickie said:


> And what difference does it make if someone votes down your review? Trying to understand here.


For books with a lot of reviews, the up or down vote can affect which reviews come up first on the review section of the page. If a review gets a lot of helpful votes, that review moves to the top of the page. I've rarely seen reviews at the top of the page (positive or negative) that weren't thoughtful critiques. However, I'm sure some great reviews get buried if the voting process is abused.


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## Cathymw (May 27, 2010)

purplepen79 said:


> That said, discerning readers can usually tell the difference between a thoughtful review and a review with an agenda--for instance, those "this is awesome" reviews with no explanation never sway me. Also, sometimes I've seen negative reviews where it seemed that the reviewer had a hidden agenda that had little to do with the quality of the book in question but more to do with that particular reviewer's own issues.


On that note, while reading reviews of an author I had just met, I read a vicious one-star review that seemed totally out of line with the rest of the reviews. So I asked the author of the book about it. Seems that this other person had gotten upset at him during a writer's conference critique workshop because Dave (the author) wouldn't let him go ahead of someone in the critique order.

The wanna be line-cutter retaliated by writing a nasty review of his book.

But yes, I think you can tell the difference between a real review and one that has their own agenda (or one where it's obviously the author's best friend or mom or something.)


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## purplepen79 (May 6, 2010)

Interesting story about the vengeful reviewer.  All reviews are subjective, some more so than others.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

You can't control people, no matter how hard you try. Personally, I like taking a look at more critical reviews, even if they aren't the first to pop up on the page. At the very least, you want to see both sides of the story before you make a purchase, no?


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

tbrookside said:


> I see a lot of people say that they won't review because they're concerned that they'll get negative votes, but I've never really understood why.
> 
> The negative votes really have no impact on anything other than what reviews show up first. All the reviews still count, no matter how many negative votes they get.
> 
> Unless you're really competitive about your reviewer rank, what's the downside to having someone vote down your review?


Because it promotes negativity and it's completely unproductive. It's not about competitiveness because I don't care how many "likes" I get on Goodreads compared to someone else's review, it just about wanting to voice my opinion without some petty, gutless and anonymous abuse of the system. On Goodreads, there is the option to comment on a review so if you disagree, you can say so. But it's rare that anyone does because it's not anonymous. People are so gutless sometimes and I'm not going to waste my time getting involved in community that supports that kind of petty negativity.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

KindleChickie said:


> And what difference does it make if someone votes down your review? Trying to understand here.


For me it was a blow to my ego. I spend time putting together a honest opinion of a book and then only input I got back was negative. It may be foolish, but after a few where the only thing I could think someone didn't like was I didn't give a stellar review, I just decided not to bother.

I started doing reviews because it was fun. I stopped because sometimes it wasn't.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

KindleChickie said:


> And what difference does it make if someone votes down your review? Trying to understand here.


Assuming this is directed at me, though maybe you meant in general. It really makes no difference, it just irritates me.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

Nope it was just a general question.  Not barb pointed at anyone.  


I am a very different type of personality and a lot of things that usual people talk about I just dont get.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I have been on amazon for years, but never really reviewed. Its mostly that I have problems expressing myself in the written word the way I want to. I don't know why, but it is a difficult thing for me to do to write reviews. So I decided when I started reading the Indy Author to try again and give reviews. 

My very first review I did was voted down. To be honest I am very gun shy now. This might not mean anything in the big picture, but I only have 3 reviews total and I don't want this to reflect on who people see my reviews when they click on my profile. Its hard enough for me to put thoughts down, its a bit of a blow when I am told my review is not helpful.  

When I read other reviews I envy people that can write so well and it all makes sense. Oh well.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

VHopkins_Author said:


> Frankly, I'm not too keen on the review system anywhere - Amazon, Goodreads, etc. As an author, I've had a few disgruntled readers vote me down on various sites because I disagreed with them regarding a matter in the Phantom of the Opera community.


Well, I think that creates a stronger argument for authors not participating in online communities than it does for review systems. I'm not saying author's shouldn't be posting here, I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome - but you do run the risk of getting involved in a disagree that reflects poorly on you. You can't blame the review systems for that.


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## redshift1 (Jun 20, 2009)

Atunah said:


> I have been on amazon for years, but never really reviewed. Its mostly that I have problems expressing myself in the written word the way I want to. I don't know why, but it is a difficult thing for me to do to write reviews. So I decided when I started reading the Indy Author to try again and give reviews.
> 
> My very first review I did was voted down. To be honest I am very gun shy now. This might not mean anything in the big picture, but I only have 3 reviews total and I don't want this to reflect on who people see my reviews when they click on my profile. Its hard enough for me to put thoughts down, its a bit of a blow when I am told my review is not helpful.
> 
> When I read other reviews I envy people that can write so well and it all makes sense. Oh well.


Not to worry Amazon reviews are loaded with people with personal agendas who's votes make sense only to themselves.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

Atunah said:


> I have been on amazon for years, but never really reviewed. Its mostly that I have problems expressing myself in the written word the way I want to. I don't know why, but it is a difficult thing for me to do to write reviews. So I decided when I started reading the Indy Author to try again and give reviews.
> 
> My very first review I did was voted down. To be honest I am very gun shy now. This might not mean anything in the big picture, but I only have 3 reviews total and I don't want this to reflect on who people see my reviews when they click on my profile. Its hard enough for me to put thoughts down, its a bit of a blow when I am told my review is not helpful.
> 
> When I read other reviews I envy people that can write so well and it all makes sense. Oh well.


Sounds rough. Sorry, Atunah. If it makes you feel any better, I've had a fair number of my reviews voted down, typically when I'm giving the book two or three stars. It can definitely be disheartening, but it's impossible to expect everyone follow the rules, be it on websites or on the streets. Otherwise, the world would be a much healthier and crime-free place!


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## Cathymw (May 27, 2010)

Okay, I can see now why it's upsetting to be voted down.  It does seem discouraging, especially if you're trying to provide a service (either to the author by recommending him or her, or the reader to warn them about content --- good or bad).

When did Amazon install the voting up and down reviews options?


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

This is one reason I don't like reviewing fiction @ Amazon. When I was a soapmaker years ago, I had no problem reviewing books related to Soapmaking, but I had a basis for my reviews, I knew what was right and what was HORRIBLY wrong with some of them. I felt comfortable with my knowledge, and my ability to give a quality review based on facts.
I get uncomfortable reviewing pleasure reading because what I find good might not be what someone else finds good, and then what's the point?


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## worktolive (Feb 3, 2009)

To be honest, I never even notice the up/downs when I'm reading reviews. I just read the reviews and make my decisions based on the actual words in them, not other people's votes about them. 

Same goes for my own reviews. I write the review to express my opinion. I couldn't care less whether other people vote it up or down. I never go back and check reviews I've previously written so I don't actually know whether people have voted on mine. Maybe I should do that (off to check some of my recent reviews....).


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Arkali said:


> Is it me, or people down-vote reviews just because they don't agree with the score? Drives me nuts. Personally, I up-vote any review that gives me an idea of whether or not I'll like a book, or if it's one I already read I'll up-vote it if they give good reasons why they hated it even if I loved. The only ones I down-vote are the "This sucks!" or ones that give faulty information.
> 
> Grrrrr.


Well, it's not the system so much as you can't fix stupid. I vote like you do -- I can make a different decision from the reviewer while still learning something from the review. I also review a fair amount, but don't let the negative votes get me down, just as I don't when marked unhelpful in the discussions. Unless someone tells me what their issue is with the review, I can't tell if they have a valid point or not, and so I don't care.

I think that unless it's a real hot button issue or book that most people score the reviews right. There've been a couple reviews where I expected to catch a hard time and didn't and I think it's because I remained respectful and explained myself clearly. There is only one review that caused me a really hard time and where someone manage to extrapolate from a positive review and a mention of loving Barbies as a kid that I allow my husband to walk all over me and beat our kids. I don't have kids. I'm married to a guy who has the patience of Job and a heart of gold. The whole thing was -- strange. At least the guy explained his opinion though and so I respect that.

All I can even suggest is that the button is changed to ask if the person found the review thoughtful or informative. Even that's not foolproof. The fool always wins.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

Daniel Arenson said:


> I up-vote and down-vote based on whether the review helped.


This.

Mostly.


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## LCEvans (Mar 29, 2009)

I, too, look at whether the review was helpful. But Amazon does rank reviewers based on how many helpful or not helpful votes they receive. I've had one top Amazon reviewer tell me that she's sure some other Amazon reviewers deliberately vote her reviews down to get themselves ranked above her. I don't know how true this is, but the whole system seems so petty. Yes, there are some really trollish people out there doing their dirty work. 

Linda


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2010)

_Rallying the troops_ is a common tactic self-publishers use to vote down reviews they feel are "unfair" (i.e. oh no! I didn't get a five star review). I've seen countless threads in writer forums where an author starts a thread about a bad review, and it goes on for five pages with everyone dumping on the reviewer and then going to the review to give it a thumb's down. Unfortunately, I've even seen a few of these here. You want to fight the practice? Make sure you open your mouth when you see a fellow author whining about a bad review and asking people to vote the review down. The practice of giving thumbs down to negative reviews is a direct result of a hyper-sensitive desire to "supporting" other authors. There is a fine line between supporting someone and enabling bad behavior, however, and your lament regarding this practice is evidence of that line being crossed too often.


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

A troll and her sock puppet recently voted down all of my 4 and 5 star reviews of a certain author's books, purely out of some kind of grudge they have against that author.  It really angered me.  (and yes, I am pretty sure that it was said troll and sock puppet).  

Another positive review I posted by a fairly controversal author got voted down, because there are so many "haters" of that author.  I didn't discover this until later...and had initially wondered if the unhelpful votes were the result of my review being so brief.  LOL

I also notice that almost every 1-2 star review that I post on amazon gets "voted down" but presumed fans of that book/film.  Whatever happened to respecting other people's opinions...?

This also happens on IMDB.  Sometimes sites where things are supposed to be beneficial get muddied by morons who make a game of starting flame wars, trolling, and being genuine douchebags.  It's the price we pay for technology...and a lot of immature people having internet access.


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## Laurensaga (Sep 29, 2010)

I just recently got intothe reviews and I'm slowly trying to weed my way through.  Personally I'm not trying to get any votes. I could care less.  I write the review because I want to provide information. Whether someone likes it or not is nor skin off my back.


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## CandyTX (Apr 13, 2009)

Mine get voted up and down. Sometimes I know it's because that particular review I did may not have been helpful, but more often than not it's because I gave something 2 or 3 stars and they didn't agree with me. I think people don't understand the difference between AGREE and HELPFUL.

Ya know what though? Even if they chose to mark it as not helpful, at least they read it. I try my hardest to make my review about why *I* liked it and why *I* didn't like it. I gave a KB author's short story a 3 star the other day and explained why it didn't 100% appeal to me. He contacted me and said he actually liked the review because I made sure to say who WOULD like the book and specifically WHY I didn't like it. It wasn't the writing, the writing was good... it was just the content wasn't my thing. My point is that made me smile because even though I wasn't boiled over, I liked it okay, I knew that others would like it and I always try to convey that - who the book would appeal to and why. Darn it, I must be doing something right.

Of course, I'm sure people will mark it unhelpful eventually if they read it and loved it because obviously mine isn't helpful if I don't agree with them, right? *laughing*

Like I said, I figure someone read it (hopefully!) and took time to click "not helpful" on the review, so that's a win-win for me.

But really freaking annoying. I'm actually a top 1000 reviewer (hey, I'm easily amused!) now so I see a lot of drive by unhelpful clusters now and then. Eh, life goes on. If I fall out of the top 1000, such is life.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

LCEvans said:


> I, too, look at whether the review was helpful. But Amazon does rank reviewers based on how many helpful or not helpful votes they receive. I've had one top Amazon reviewer tell me that she's sure some other Amazon reviewers deliberately vote her reviews down to get themselves ranked above her. I don't know how true this is, but the whole system seems so petty. Yes, there are some really trollish people out there doing their dirty work.
> 
> Linda


If any one person votes on another member's reviews, their votes cease to count -- good or bad. They are listed under a reviewer's stats as fans when a more accurate term is people who have voted on a reviews ___ amount of times. It's kinda wacky. There's also an indication their previous votes are scrubbed. That's Amazon's answer to the above. 

[URL=http://www.amazon]http://www.amazon.com/review/top-reviewers/ref=cm_cr_tr_link_1[/url] (See last column.)

I think Amazon feels that calling them fans simplifies things and perhaps eases the ache at knowing votes -- even good ones -- are not being counted.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I actually like Amazon's system, but I agree that it is abused.  Sometimes with targeted abuse and that really stinks.

The system *should* work fine without the trolls.  Unfortunately, there are trolls, and idiots.

Vicki


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2010)

Victorine said:


> Unfortunately, there are trolls, and idiots.


Sometimes I down-vote a review if I think the reviewer tried too hard to come up with a clever name. I think that disincentive helps him or her realize there are better ways to spend time.

Edit: Like "Pot-O-Gold Reviews" or something. It was just a joke anyway. *adjusts collar*


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Huh? A name?


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## emalvick (Sep 14, 2010)

I mentioned earlier that I am one that thinks one helpful vote makes me feel like my review did good.  When I think of how I read other reviews, another pointed out about reading the review and not paying attention to the votes.  I generally follow a similar agenda, and if anything I go by the size of the review (which is why I am adding this post).  If a reviewer is going to write something substantial, than they generally care, and more often than not the review is good.  Of course there will be a rant here and there, but generally they are good.

As far as reviewer rankings, I'm not sure why they even matter.  I can't say I've often come across top reviewers, and while I have seen Amazon's statement of what it takes to get towards the top, it still seems vague. 

In my own reviews, I often like to present my point of view as a mostly alternative type of reader when it comes to books.  While I read a lot, I don't find myself well read.  I am an engineer and literature was never a strong point of mine.  I like lit for the entertainment value, and I love reading the classics and other literary books for the thought value they often give.  But when it gets to the details, I am not one to be truely critical as those with a real literature background may have.  I don't often grasp the underlying themes that may accompany a book (a downfall of mine when I was in school).  As a result, I often present my book reviews from that perspective with the hopes that others of a similar perspective might find them helpful but often with the down votes from those who find my perspective worthless (you'd be amazed at how many down votes I get for not being considered literate enough).  

My college years taught me that I didn't need to know every fine detail of books as my science classes were tough enough.  I took literature classes and read the books for relaxation and actually didn't do too bad as a result.  The by product is that I discovered all sorts of authors, novels, short stories, drama, etc that I loved because I didn't stress myself out for every detail.  One of my favorites was the Divine Comedy as translated by Don Ciardi.  I read the Inferno in class and finished the remainder on my own.  I wrote Amazon reivews not as a critic of the Divine Comedy or an expert on the many translations but as a reader who thought it was a good story and could appreciate what the Ciardi translation gave.  I know it may not be the best translation (it is the only one I've read), but I could appreciate the way it was related to me through the translation and provide a review from that perspective.  Strangely, it has been one of the most popular reviews I've written (it isn't saying a whole lot), but that convinced me that there is something to being honest and targeting anyone in the audience.  

The heck with the trolls.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

emalvick said:


> The heck with the trolls.


Agreed


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

emalvick said:


> As far as reviewer rankings, I'm not sure why they even matter. I can't say I've often come across top reviewers, and while I have seen Amazon's statement of what it takes to get towards the top, it still seems vague.


I don't know if I count as a top reviewer. I am ranked high enough to have a badge. (I'm sure there are many others around these parts with an even higher ranking.) What it takes to get high enough for a badge is to just keep reviewing and every once in a while it helps to review something really popular while it's still new -- like a Kindle. What it takes to really get in the upper echelon, where I'm decidedly not, is even more reviewing. Beyond that, if it's important to the person, they might have a strategy to avoid unpopular reviews and books on religion and politics -- unless they're going to review with the tide. Sometimes a negative review can capture the general hatred of something and still be advantageous.

There are very honest top reviewers out there. Some of it becomes semantics though. I think that a truly honest reviewer hands out some lower ratings too, but some top reviewers are very cautious, many with a policy of never being negative. Admittedly, some don't do it for reasons other than ranking and just a general philosophy of life. By negative I don't mean nasty, just handing out a star ranking under 4 stars. Since I look at reviews as a way to help consumers, I'm proud of my willingness to be (kindly) critical and think the people who do so are the ones who are providing the best service to the reader or buyer. However, I also understand that people review as an enjoyable hobby and so aren't obligated to review in a way they don't like.

More than you wanted to know, huh?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

It never occurred to me to go back and check to see how people liked my reviews. I'm not sure what my score is on that. I did find that someone gave a very derogatory comment to one of my reviews, but I didn't see the comment until many months after I'd posted the review. They basically accused me of being a shill for the author. The book was on the NY Times bestseller list, so it certainly didn't little old me to get sales.  

I think because I posted the review around the time I was doing lots of reviews on a writing site, where I'd use the terms like 'main character' instead of using the mc's name. The person thought I hadn't read the book because of that. 

On reviews of my book, there are a couple of down votes that came after a minor brouhaha on the Amazon Kindle forum. It was somebody's idea of revenge on me.


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## emalvick (Sep 14, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> I don't know if I count as a top reviewer. I am ranked high enough to have a badge. (I'm sure there are many others around these parts with an even higher ranking.) What it takes to get high enough for a badge is to just keep reviewing and every once in a while it helps to review something really popular while it's still new -- like a Kindle. What it takes to really get in the upper echelon, where I'm decidedly not, is even more reviewing. Beyond that, if it's important to the person, they might have a strategy to avoid unpopular reviews and books on religion and politics -- unless they're going to review with the tide. Sometimes a negative review can capture the general hatred of something and still be advantageous.
> 
> There are very honest top reviewers out there. Some of it becomes semantics though. I think that a truly honest reviewer hands out some lower ratings too, but some top reviewers are very cautious, many with a policy of never being negative. Admittedly, some don't do it for reasons other than ranking and just a general philosophy of life. By negative I don't mean nasty, just handing out a star ranking under 4 stars. Since I look at reviews as a way to help consumers, I'm proud of my willingness to be (kindly) critical and think the people who do so are the ones who are providing the best service to the reader or buyer. However, I also understand that people review as an enjoyable hobby and so aren't obligated to review in a way they don't like.
> 
> More than you wanted to know, huh?


Thanks for the info. I guess I was mostly just commenting that those with badges (I have seen a few) seem to be so few and far between that I'm not sure about those who only worry about their reviewer ranking. I do realize that there are a lot like yourself, probably most of those with badges, that care about what they write as the most helpful votes do seem to follow the most thorough reviews, which often end up as the featured review for a product. That is often key. It also seems to help to review items quick as a later review often gets lost whether people find it helpful or not. That has become a reason why in my own reviewing, I won't often review items that have had a lot of reviews unless I feel I am really contributing to the "conversation" held in the reviews. Meaning, I don't care so much as if I get helpful votes or not, but a vote (good or bad) at least means people are reading a review. When items have 100's of reviews, it is easy for your review to never be seen.


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

MaryMcDonald said:


> On reviews of my book, there are a couple of down votes that came after a minor brouhaha on the Amazon Kindle forum. It was somebody's idea of revenge on me.


People really need to knock that crap out, and be mature.

I know of another indie author going through something similar.

What's wrong with people? Stuff like that is why I stay away from IMBD and "Survivor Sucks" anymore. Too much immature activity online.


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## A_Hamm (Oct 8, 2010)

I’ve been writing reviews on Amazon for several years and a little over a year ago I was invited into the “Vine Voice” program.  (This means I get free stuff in exchange for reviews.)  I don’t know the exact formula, but one of the criteria for getting into Vine is having a high percentage of helpful votes.  My percentage has plummeted since joining.  From a few comments and discussions, I’ve deduced that this is mostly because there are people who vote down any Vine review purely because they are jealous that I got the book or other product for free.

This shouldn’t matter to me since I never set out to earn a top reviewer badge or anything, but it still bugs me a little.  I understand the need for the big green “this is a Vine review” label.  It feels like a big “vote against me” sign though.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

A_Hamm said:


> I've been writing reviews on Amazon for several years and a little over a year ago I was invited into the "Vine Voice" program. (This means I get free stuff in exchange for reviews.) I don't know the exact formula, but one of the criteria for getting into Vine is having a high percentage of helpful votes.


Really? As far as I know, there's no official list anywhere of how to get into Vine and I've seen some gawd-awful reviews from Vine members. My theory is that they like a mix of demographics and recruit accordingly based on buying history -- that explains the mix of abilities.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

I wonder too about Vine -- there are certainly some people in that program who write barely coherent reviews and have a high percentage of negative votes.

I suspect a lot of it has to do with just posting a huge number of reviews.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Thalia the Muse said:


> I wonder too about Vine -- there are certainly some people in that program who write barely coherent reviews and have a high percentage of negative votes.
> 
> I suspect a lot of it has to do with just posting a huge number of reviews.


I've heard of people who got asked after only a handful of reviews. It's one of the greatest mysteries, ever. That, where Hoffa is buried, and what's up with the Bermuda Triangle.


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## A_Hamm (Oct 8, 2010)

Now I'm a little embarrassed because I could have sworn the invitation said something about helpful votes, but I guess I just imagined that.  I dug through my old email because I was so sure (good thing I never delete anything) and it only said that Vine is for "our most valued customer reviewers."  That’s pretty open to interpretation.  I've definitely seen some bad Vine reviews and I always thought it was people who had been doing it a long time and got bored with writing reviews but not bored with getting free stuff.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> I've heard of people who got asked after only a handful of reviews. It's one of the greatest mysteries, ever. That, where Hoffa is buried, and what's up with the Bermuda Triangle.


Totally off-topic, but Michelle, I just want to say that is a gorgeous collie / sheltie (can't tell size with nothing for scale in the photo) - s/he looks so happy it makes me smile every time I see your avvie


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## unknown2cherubim (Sep 10, 2010)

A_Hamm said:


> Now I'm a little embarrassed because I could have sworn the invitation said something about helpful votes, but I guess I just imagined that. I dug through my old email because I was so sure (good thing I never delete anything) and it only said that Vine is for "our most valued customer reviewers." That's pretty open to interpretation. I've definitely seen some bad Vine reviews and I always thought it was people who had been doing it a long time and got bored with writing reviews but not bored with getting free stuff.


This is helpful. I've been trying to figure out what it is supposed to mean when a person is a Vine reviewer. I very rarely write reviews but I read them and use them all the time in my decision-making.

What am I supposed get from a Vine reviewer that other reviewers can't give me?

As far as using reviews to make my buying decisions, I actually look at the spread as well as representative reviews from each star level. If there are a lot of high or low stars then I investigate why. I prefer a review that contains both pros and cons over one which is basically all negative or all positive.

I thought I read somewhere that people tend to review positive to reinforce their own choices, at least subconsciously.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Arkali said:


> Totally off-topic, but Michelle, I just want to say that is a gorgeous collie / sheltie (can't tell size with nothing for scale in the photo) - s/he looks so happy it makes me smile every time I see your avvie


That's Ferguson -- he's a Sheltie. LOL, no one is going to care about this, but ... one of the ways you can tell if you can't see the size is that Shelties have a definite "stop" which just means forehead. Collies tend to have more of a slope from the top of the head to the muzzle. He actually is a character. He liked to fling himself at the ground, no matter what the time of year or weather. Grass, leaves, snow...


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

unknown2cherubim said:


> This is helpful. I've been trying to figure out what it is supposed to mean when a person is a Vine reviewer. I very rarely write reviews but I read them and use them all the time in my decision-making.
> 
> What am I supposed get from a Vine reviewer that other reviewers can't give me?


I think it's more what the pubs and writers get -- people are more likely to take the plunge if there are reviews, even if some are negative. A lot of what Vine gives out are ARCs. (Advanced copies, in various stages of "doneness.") They want there to be reviews in place when the book is made available. Of course, the reviews help the buyer in all the usual ways, but there is no advantage to the buyer specifically that the review was generated by Vine.

The Vine program isn't just books, but that is definitely the majority of what is offered. 2 newsletters a month to pick from. The first one is smaller and supposed to be based on the preferences and tastes of the potential reviewer. The next newsletter, coming a week later, is the huge leftovers list and has all the remaining inventory.


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## Anne Victory (Jul 29, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> That's Ferguson -- he's a Sheltie. LOL, no one is going to care about this, but ... one of the ways you can tell if you can't see the size is that Shelties have a definite "stop" which just means forehead. Collies tend to have more of a slope from the top of the head to the muzzle. He actually is a character. He liked to fling himself at the ground, no matter what the time of year or weather. Grass, leaves, snow...


Actually, I do care about that  I love dogs and used to run classes in basic obedience. Anywho... question for you - how much energy would you say shelties have? Do they need a lot of daily exercise, or are they good if you just toss a ball for them a few times and let them chase it? We've got a mini-poodle and he's great - he gets enough exercise just through us playing with him and is pretty laid-back in the house. Thanks!


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Arkali said:


> Actually, I do care about that  I love dogs and used to run classes in basic obedience. Anywho... question for you - how much energy would you say shelties have? Do they need a lot of daily exercise, or are they good if you just toss a ball for them a few times and let them chase it? We've got a mini-poodle and he's great - he gets enough exercise just through us playing with him and is pretty laid-back in the house. Thanks!


I think a Sheltie's #1 need even more than exercise is attention -- they're definitely one of the breeds who like to be part of the pack. they need time with their people and to do something. So, while they don't need long walks, they thrive with some obedience work and playtime of some sort. (Even just putting them through their command paces during commercials.) I think a game of fetch or frisbee time, along with short walks, is sufficient as they need some exercise, but really just want to be with you. If you want to take it to the next level, they're excellent at obedience, flyball, and agility because they're smart and seem to have "team spirit." I suppose I'd call their energy level adaptable, based on the activity level of their owners. They are infamous barkers though and will just up and "talk" with fairly little provocation and that might encourage your poodle to join in. (Individuals will vary of course.)


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## HeidiHall (Sep 5, 2010)

I love reading reviews (good and bad) and have found them very useful in my decision-making. I don't bother to vote-down a review, but if one is helpful I "say" so. Negative reviews that are vicious for reasons unrelated to the actual product are always obvious to me and quickly ignored. I never realized that clicking on the "found this helpful" button had any effect on the status of the review though. Good information.


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