# Kindle Library Books



## caryanne2 (Jul 22, 2010)

I sent Kindle CS a question asking if borrowing library books through overdrive.com will be possible on the kindle in the near future, and if not, why. Their response was that they haven't made an announcement about a kindle update, so they can't answer my question. Do you think this means library books for kindle are coming soon??


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## Tom Diego (Jun 30, 2010)

An interesting response to be sure!  I believe that Amazon will have to offer support for ePub at some point, just perhaps not with the same features available such as bookmarks, annotations, and font choice.  It would surprise me if they did this soon though.


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## Jen (Oct 28, 2008)

I read that as more of an "I have absolutely no idea how to answer your question" response!  I wish, though!


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## waynep (Dec 22, 2009)

I would not care about the notes etc. If Kindle was more supported with Overdrive, then I would not longer be on the fence. K it would be. I was leaning towards the K but I found our local Library Overdrive capability and realize it's a feature I would kind of like to have. Not to decide if the larger inventory of books for the K out weighs the Overdrive feature of the Nook.


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## kimbertay (Sep 16, 2009)

While I have come to terms with not being able to get library books on my Kindle I think that Amazon could win over a lot more people if they could get library books on their Kindle.  I've heard a lot of people say "Well, I won't get a Kindle because I can't get library books on it!" and that is why they end up going in another direction for their e-readers. 

After using my Kindle for nearly a year I would not switch just for the library option but it would be extra nice and good for Amazon's business IMO.


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## caryanne2 (Jul 22, 2010)

I think you may be right Jen. Reading that again does make it sound kind of "wishy-washy". They don't really answer my question at all. I agree though that if Kindle offers library support they would get a lot more customers.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

caryanne2 said:


> I agree though that if Kindle offers library support they would get a lot more customers.


Given the various estimates of 1 or 2 or 3 million Kindles sold, it seems like they've got plenty of customers without offering such support.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Adobe makes the software that is used as the DRM for library books. I would expect to hear of a deal between Adobe and Amazon prior to any announcement of being able to use library books on the Kindle.


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## Lisa M. (Jun 15, 2010)

I really believe this will happen, and soon (within a year or so) I think. Amazon is just too smart not to go for it.


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

caryanne2 said:


> I sent Kindle CS a question asking if borrowing library books through overdrive.com will be possible on the kindle in the near future, and if not, why. Their response was that they haven't made an announcement about a kindle update, so they can't answer my question. Do you think this means library books for kindle are coming soon??


I have to say that my interpretation of that response is that the CS rep who sent it can only tell you what the company tells him/her and since the company has made no announcement either way about library books, CS had no information with which to answer your question one way or another. Personally I wouldn't hold my breath!


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## CoolMom1960 (Mar 16, 2009)

I get really frustrated with our library's selection of books available from overdrive.  They are soon going to offer e-books but the selection of audiobooks is slim so I can't imagine the ebooks would be any better.


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## tsemple (Apr 27, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> Adobe makes the software that is used as the DRM for library books. I would expect to hear of a deal between Adobe and Amazon prior to any announcement of being able to use library books on the Kindle.


Actually the deal that has to happen is not with Amazon and Adobe, but Amazon and Overdrive. Overdrive is DRM agnostic. In addition to Adobe DRM for ePub (& PDF I think) it supports Mobipocket DRM, Microsoft ebook DRM, and audiobook DRM. It would be relatively easy to add Kindle format & DRM to the mix, since it would be pretty much the same as the already-supported Mobipocket (which Amazon owns).

Amazon is not likely to start using ePub, as should be obvious at this point. They are totally committed to MOBI format. So they don't need to support Adobe DRM. But with Kindle the market leader, there is pressure for Overdrive to offer a solution for it, and Amazon can't much like it that its customers are forced to buy competing devices just to borrow from the library. They'd prefer everyone had a Kindle, and therefore preferentially purchased ebooks from Amazon rather than a competitor. It's one of the few features that would drive people to purchase something other than a Kindle, and it is a hole they'd like to plug.

So I think a deal is likely in the works, but a licensing agreement is more complicated than the technical issues, probably involves securing lending rights from publishers as well, and so it may take some time. But I'd be surprised if it drags out another year like this.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

My local library has no e-books of any kind, nor any plans for the near future for them...Our local bookstore is Walmart... this is why I got a Kindle.


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## tsemple (Apr 27, 2009)

BTackitt said:


> My local library has no e-books of any kind, nor any plans for the near future for them...Our local bookstore is Walmart... this is why I got a Kindle.


You might check this wiki page on mobileread.com: http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries. There may be other options where you live. For example, while our local libraries are barely even open, I learned that I can get free online access to the ebook collections of several of the larger public California libraries by applying in person at one of their branches.


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## tubemonkey (Aug 10, 2010)

caryanne2 said:


> Their response was that they haven't made an announcement about a kindle update, so they can't answer my question. Do you think this means library books for kindle are coming soon??


No, it means they're giving you the brushoff and have no intention of adding the feature.

Pity, the ability to checkout library books is what tilted me to the Nook. My son, on the other hand, doesn't care about library books and wants a Kindle.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

tsemple said:


> Actually the deal that has to happen is not with Amazon and Adobe, but Amazon and Overdrive. Overdrive is DRM agnostic. In addition to Adobe DRM for ePub (& PDF I think) it supports Mobipocket DRM, Microsoft ebook DRM, and audiobook DRM. It would be relatively easy to add Kindle format & DRM to the mix, since it would be pretty much the same as the already-supported Mobipocket (which Amazon owns).
> 
> Amazon is not likely to start using ePub, as should be obvious at this point. They are totally committed to MOBI format. So they don't need to support Adobe DRM. But with Kindle the market leader, there is pressure for Overdrive to offer a solution for it, and Amazon can't much like it that its customers are forced to buy competing devices just to borrow from the library. They'd prefer everyone had a Kindle, and therefore preferentially purchased ebooks from Amazon rather than a competitor. It's one of the few features that would drive people to purchase something other than a Kindle, and it is a hole they'd like to plug.
> 
> So I think a deal is likely in the works, but a licensing agreement is more complicated than the technical issues, probably involves securing lending rights from publishers as well, and so it may take some time. But I'd be surprised if it drags out another year like this.


This makes sense to me. . . .in fact, it's probably the first argument I've read that makes me think that maybe, one day, Amazon WILL allow library book borrowing via Kindle.


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## tubemonkey (Aug 10, 2010)

tsemple said:


> Amazon is not likely to start using ePub, as should be obvious at this point. They are totally committed to MOBI format. So they don't need to support Adobe DRM. But with Kindle the market leader, there is pressure for Overdrive to offer a solution for it, and Amazon can't much like it that its customers are forced to buy competing devices just to borrow from the library. They'd prefer everyone had a Kindle, and therefore preferentially purchased ebooks from Amazon rather than a competitor. It's one of the few features that would drive people to purchase something other than a Kindle, and it is a hole they'd like to plug.


That's me. No library books, no Kindle.


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## Carld (Dec 2, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> Adobe makes the software that is used as the DRM for library books. I would expect to hear of a deal between Adobe and Amazon prior to any announcement of being able to use library books on the Kindle.


Only for ePubs and PDFs. Amazon and Overdrive could add Kindle support for Overdrive mobi files pretty easily I think. It's not as good as full support, but it ought to be trivial to implement.


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## bookie (Apr 3, 2010)

I initially bought a Sony Touch specifically to be able to get the library books. Overdrive has some software issues that is challenged when a reader has different formats on it. This results in some library books opening; others say 'protected page'. Response from Overdrive on various forums: 'we are aware and are working on the problem'. According to the forum dates, this is not new and long overdue for a fix. I am now reading my way thru the Sony and once empty will only use it for downloading library books.

About 8 weeks ago, I bought a K2i on Ebay in essentially brand new condition. Thought I got a good deal, but now wishing I'd waited as I would hop on that graphite in a heartbeat. If I sold the K2, I'd go for the K3


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## Tom Diego (Jun 30, 2010)

bookie said:


> About 8 weeks ago, I bought a K2i on Ebay in essentially brand new condition. Thought I got a good deal, but now wishing I'd waited as I would hop on that graphite in a heartbeat. If I sold the K2, I'd go for the K3


The prices for the Kindle 2 have gone up on eBay. You can probably get more than you paid for it, or at least break even after fees and Amazon's cut. You may also be able to sell it through the Amazon Marketplace. Definitely worth checking out!


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Bookie, I thought the problem with the two different formats on my Touch was a Sony issue instead of an Overdrive issue.  Have I been wrong, or am I reading your post wrong?
Thank you,
deb


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## CaroleC (Apr 19, 2010)

tsemple said:


> You might check this wiki page on mobileread.com: http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries. There may be other options where you live. For example, while our local libraries are barely even open, I learned that I can get free online access to the ebook collections of several of the larger public California libraries by applying in person at one of their branches.


Wow! It's worse than I thought in Louisiana. I only saw one e-book library, and apparently it has a total of only 283 books.  Plus, the books I saw listed looked pretty boring. But, a library in my neighborhood is being rebuilt (it was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina), and once it is open again maybe they will have e-books.

Good thing that in my case I really wanted my Kindle for reading Amazon books of my choice, and that I don't mind paying to do that.


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## NightReader (Apr 25, 2010)

It looks to me like Overdrive is moving towards 100% Adobe Digital Editions and away from mobi.  They tout ADE in their sales pitch towards libraries.

And, at least with my library, ADE is all that is offered.

While supporting mobi might not be a huge technical problem, I don't think libraries are in a position to support dueling formats.  I would imagine they would have to buy twice as many licenses that way (one ADE and one Mobi for each book) and I don't see them doing that in this economy.

From where I've been sitting and watching it looks like Overdrive and libraries in general consider the format war over and they've settled on ADE.  

So, the question to Amazon, and I guess it's always been the big question, is:  Do they want the Kindle to be "my e-reader" or do they only want to be "one of my e-readerS"?

If they want to keep me locked into their hardware and their store, they need to bend to read ADE.  Otherwise, at some point I'm going to have to buy a different reader (most likely a Nook) and then I will have the ability to shop between readers and stores.


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## tubemonkey (Aug 10, 2010)

NightReader said:


> From where I've been sitting and watching it looks like Overdrive and libraries in general consider the format war over and they've settled on ADE.


Whichever way it's headed, standardization on one format is for the best.


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## caryanne2 (Jul 22, 2010)

NightReader said:


> It looks to me like Overdrive is moving towards 100% Adobe Digital Editions and away from mobi. They tout ADE in their sales pitch towards libraries.
> 
> And, at least with my library, ADE is all that is offered.
> 
> ...


My library has 958 mobi books out of 3274 total books. Some of the mobi books are exclusively mobi, others have epub and adobe pdf versions.

I agree with your statement about amazon...do they want kindle to be my e-reader or one of my e-readers....I can't seem to justify the purchase of another ereader just to read ebooks. Especially because after searching the internet and boards like this I found a very uncomplicated way (no python scripts or anything difficult like that) to be able to read ebooks on my kindle, of course they are limited to mobi books only. They get deleted from my kindle after the 14 day lending period just like they would if I used a nook or sony ereader to borrow them. I went through the 958 available and found no less than 75 that I put on my must read list and plan on downloading 2 or so a week until I get through them (hopefully by then amazon will let us use the library natively...). My solution isn't the greatest, but I have no guilt in doing it because Amazon refuses to give a straight answer about it and real library books are free to everyone so library ebooks should be free to everyone also.


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## Carld (Dec 2, 2009)

tubemonkey said:


> Whichever way it's headed, standardization on one format is for the best.


As long as that one format isn't PDF.


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## Tom Diego (Jun 30, 2010)

tubemonkey said:


> Whichever way it's headed, standardization on one format is for the best.


Standardization on one format stifles technological progress. The market should determine the best format at any point in time (although BetaMax was an exception and some think that Blu-ray was another!)


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## laurie_lu (May 10, 2010)

Lisa M. said:


> I really believe this will happen, and soon (within a year or so) I think. Amazon is just too smart not to go for it.


I think it will happen too. Over at Amazon's own Kindle forum, this library issue is always coming up. Many posters have purchased 2nd ereader devices to read free library ebooks on such as the Nook. So you must assume the Amazon moles are reading these posts on their own forum and using that information. I bet they hate to read how the Nook or Sony Reader is being purchased for this purpose.


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## tubemonkey (Aug 10, 2010)

Tom Diego said:


> Standardization on one format stifles technological progress. The market should determine the best format at any point in time (although BetaMax was an exception and some think that Blu-ray was another!)


As long as the market determines the standard format, technological progress isn't stifled. No one is being stopped from developing something else.


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## tubemonkey (Aug 10, 2010)

laurie_lu said:


> I think it will happen too. Over at Amazon's own Kindle forum, this library issue is always coming up. Many posters have purchased 2nd ereader devices to read free library ebooks on such as the Nook.


This is what happens with multiple formats - VHS vs Betamax, Blu-ray vs HD DVD. I'm getting the Nook primarily because of library books; and it will be my only one. I have no intention of buying a second ereader because of format support. My son, otoh, wants a Kindle (which is why I'm here).


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## panhandlejane (Jul 12, 2010)

I love my K2, which I haven't had very long.  I didn't even consider the library book issue when buying because my local library did not have access.  I prefer Amazon's custimer service to B&N's on-line service, so I did not seriously considerthe Nook.  Then I spent $15 for a library card to the Philadelphia Free Library for audiobooks and they have a huge collection of OverDrive epub and pdf books.  I am frustrated!


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## caryanne2 (Jul 22, 2010)

panhandlejane said:


> I love my K2, which I haven't had very long. I didn't even consider the library book issue when buying because my local library did not have access. I prefer Amazon's custimer service to B&N's on-line service, so I did not seriously considerthe Nook. Then I spent $15 for a library card to the Philadelphia Free Library for audiobooks and they have a huge collection of OverDrive epub and pdf books. I am frustrated!


Boston's public library cards are free if you have a MA address. So if you have a friend from Massachusetts you can get a library card....they have just under 1000 mobi books that are easily converted to be read on the Kindle!


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## dsgilbert (Sep 29, 2010)

I am most disturbed that I just purchased a Kindle and am finding that I cannot download library books to be read on the Kindle. I understand Amazon would love  us to all buy every book but that is totally unreasonable. My Kindle will be returned if I cannot find a solution to this. The DRM stuff should not be an issue since it is borrowing the same as one does a hardback or audiobooks. The authors have already received their royalities or whatever from the purchase of the hardback books as they have from the sale of ebooks.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

dsgilbert said:


> My Kindle will be returned if I cannot find a solution to this.


It's not just the DRM, but the format. If you could find a way to break it, you'd still have to convert a majority of them to .mobi. More trouble than it is worth.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

DH and I love our Kindles (he has my old K2 and I have a K3).  If my daughter who is in her late 20's and just a few years out of grad. school wants an eReader for Christmas we will be getting her a Nook.  She uses the local library system exclusively rather than purchasing anything.  She has school loans to repay and she says she NEVER reads a book more than once so there is no reason to buy it.  Our local library system does not support Kindle but does support the Nook and Sony Reader so she'll be getting a Nook.  The amusing thing is that she's the one that suggested to DH that I should have a Kindle and arranged for the purchase of it for my birthday last year, now she'll be getting a Nook.

If our library books were able to be downloaded to Kindle she'd be getting one but since she uses the library only there is no reason to  buy a Kindle no matter how much better it is than the Nook.  The Nook is the only way to go for her.

It's sad.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

dsgilbert said:


> I am most disturbed that I just purchased a Kindle and am finding that I cannot download library books to be read on the Kindle. I understand Amazon would love us to all buy every book but that is totally unreasonable. My Kindle will be returned if I cannot find a solution to this. The DRM stuff should not be an issue since it is borrowing the same as one does a hardback or audiobooks. The authors have already received their royalities or whatever from the purchase of the hardback books as they have from the sale of ebooks.


You should return it then. Because, though the Amazon format is just a protected flavor or Mobi, you'd need to violate your terms of service to manipulate the device to use mobi formatted library books. And for other formats, you'd have to strip DRM from the library book to convert it to a readable format. So if you really want library books, you need another device. 

If I wanted library access I'd look at Kobo. . . . .


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## shalym (Sep 1, 2010)

This really isn't an issue for me in CT--statewide, there are only 305 books available to borrow, and of those 305, only 139 are fiction.  I looked at the first 50 titles, and found 4 books that I would be interested in reading, only 1 of which I don't already own.  Interestingly enough, there are also books listed on there that are in the public domain, and are available for free anyway.

Maybe someday, if more e-books are available to borrow, it may be an issue.  Right now, not so much.

Shari


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

drenee said:


> Bookie, I thought the problem with the two different formats on my Touch was a Sony issue instead of an Overdrive issue. Have I been wrong, or am I reading your post wrong?
> Thank you,
> deb


Deb, it's a Sony problem, not an Overdrive problem. I used to have a Sony and had that problem all the time. I now have a Nook and you can have both formats on it at the same time, no problem.


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## Roger Knights (Sep 12, 2010)

A good (4-star) guide to free books for the Kindle can be bought at the Kindle store for $2. It's Michael Gallagher's "Free Kindle Books and How to Find Them."

The best entry it suggests to start with is the Kindle-formatted (small screen) site: 
http://mnybks.net/

Here are topic-relevant quotes I copied from various threads on Kindle-related sites. I didn't make note of the authors at the time:


> Thanks for all the good info, LHN! I, too, have been looking for free eBooks for my kindle. I have just started working my way thru this web site:
> http://ireaderreview.com/2008/01/19/free-books-for-the-amazon-kindle/
> 
> As for the Project Gutenberg, I carry James Adcock's delightful recommendation and way for accessing that for the Kindle.
> ...


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

Lisa M. said:


> I really believe this will happen, and soon (within a year or so) I think. Amazon is just too smart not to go for it.


Your keyboard to Jeff Bezos' ears!


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Given the various estimates of 1 or 2 or 3 million Kindles sold, it seems like they've got plenty of customers without offering such support.


You must understand how big corporations like Amazon work, though. There's no such thing as plenty enough with them. With them it's always, "We made $1 million? Why didn't we make $2 million; We made $2 million? Why didn't we make $5 million?; We made $100 million? Why didn't we make $1 billion?" etc., etc. That aside, would supporting the use of library books help their bottom line? I don't really know.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

kimbertay said:


> After using my Kindle for nearly a year I would not switch just for the library option but it would be extra nice and good for Amazon's business IMO.


It might help sell more Kindles, but it wouldn't be good for Kindle book sales. I'm reading library books on my nook - and tracking how long it'll take the nook to pay for itself. These are books I'm not buying from B&N (or Amazon).

So the question is what's the business model? Is it the razor/razor blade model? Or in techier terms, the printer/printer cartridge model? Sell the printer cheap, make the "real" money on the printer cartridges? As the price of Kindle and other readers comes down I suspect that's the model. I have a nook I bought from eBay, I've never spent a dime on books from B&N (have some freebies from them though) - they've not made a penny on me. I sure can't say that about Kindle/Amazon.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

BTackitt said:


> My local library has no e-books of any kind, nor any plans for the near future for them...Our local bookstore is Walmart... this is why I got a Kindle.


My local library doesn't either. I'd had a Sony reader in addition to my Kindle, but switched to nook when I found I couldn't read my freebies from B&N on the Sony, but could put Sony books on a nook. The switch was logical. Library books weren't a factor.

_*UNTIL*_ I found out there *are* libraries outside my local area using Overdrive that you can access (either free for a nominal fee). I can access one library in my state free, and I have a $15 card for the Free Library of Philadelphia (I live in Florida). I've had the nook less than 2 months & I'm on my 4th library book now, and will be downloading *Fall of Giants* from the library today.

That could change as things progress - the free library may start charging, and the Philly library may raise its rates as more and more out-of-staters pick up cards. But for a while, I'll keep mixing in free library books with my Kindle books.


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