# Why are my erotica titles not selling on Amazon?



## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

Any thoughts on why my erotica titles aren't selling on Amazon?

I am seeing good sales on all other channels, I have permafree entries into series, and none of the titles are in the adult dungeon - but they're just not doing anything.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Covers?  Your name is more prominent than the images, that seems to be backwards to me.


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

Agree, especially in the Amazon thumbnail they are so dark that it's hard to even make out the shapes and tell what it's supposed to be. I read your blurbs and they seem direct and fine. Also, do you have one free so readers can try you out? With as big of a backlist as you have, maybe that would be worthwhile? 

Good luck with improved sales!


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

I used to sell well on Amazon, with the same covers, so not that.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

I think it's your covers. They are so dark, all I can see is your name. On Amazon you are up against so many HOT covers that grab people's attention that they might be skipping right over yours.


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

Alexis-Shore said:


> I used to sell well on Amazon, with the same covers, so not that.


Dare I say that the market has moved on and the covers have not?


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

theblether said:


> Dare I say that the market has moved on and the covers have not?


Good point.


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

Yeah, those covers aren't helping you any. I would change that up first.


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

Covers are too dark for me. I wouldn't be interested. The prominent name distracts.  I'd recommend swap sizes of name- and title fonts.


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback, much appreciated x


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## Carol Davis (Dec 9, 2013)

Agreed.  On my laptop those covers look black, and I don't think having an author's name as the predominant image works at all unless you're Stephen King.


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

I tried to find the blog but couldn't. Selena Kitt wrote an article where she pointed out the Amazon in their battle against erotica started filtering it and labeling it Adult. books tagged with the Adult label are buried strictly in the erotica basement never to see the light of _normal _books day. My erotic sales are down too in the last few months, but then again all my sales have been down, since the Great Amazon Free-For-All started. If I find the article I'll post the link.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I would say definitely the covers. They are too dark.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

You can check adult dungeon status at http://www.salesrankexpress.com/? Books that are blocked will have a red ADULT tag on them. It's only a few.

The covers are dark, but I actually like the concept (Maya Banks uses the same thing), but they say more erotic romance than pure erotica and the blurbs aren't giving enough information to really identify with or get interested in the characters which you'd need for a romance. Also, some of the blurbs are collections of single lines. I'd move towards getting that to be more of a coherent paragraph. You might want to include a word count, particularly for anything short.

Also the $1.99 price point is supposedly a dead zone that sells worse than $.99 or $2.99.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

Alexis-Shore said:


> I am seeing good sales on all other channels, I have permafree entries into series, and none of the titles are in the adult dungeon - but they're just not doing anything.


How are you marketing them?

I see that most people posting above dislike your covers. I admit that I'm not greatly enamored by them, myself, either, but I think they will be only a partial explanation at best, because (a) you used to sell them well with these covers, and (b) you sell them elsewhere with these covers.

So I suspect that isn't actually the _primary_ reason.

Which takes us back to where we started. You're commenting that they're not selling, so the obvious starting-point is to ask how you're marketing them, so we can start thinking about why that might not be working at Amazon but apparently is working in other places.

There are some very Amazon-specific issues involved in marketing, in this genre, which don't apply elsewhere, and my suspicion is that these are the areas to which you need to pay attention.

It may be that (although your books aren't in the dungeon) people are simply not seeing them as often as you'd like. If that's the case, these two little books may be of *great* assistance for Amazon sales:
http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Blogging-Facebook-Guerilla-Marketers-ebook/dp/B007XVWEIU/
http://www.amazon.com/Fiction-Kindle-Marketing-Amazons-Ecosystem-ebook/dp/B00BR6G3ZW/


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks Zoe.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Yup, the only thing I see on my Kindle screen is a black cover with a huge author name.

I looked at the covers at Amazon and they're pretty dark there, too.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

Maybe it's the name? People see it so prominently that they think it is the title then they assume that they've already read it?


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Yes, I actually thought they were thrillers with the prominent name and murky images. I also can't tell one from another very easily.

I would guess that this category is getting pretty crowded on Amazon and you are getting lost in a sea of much more obvious covers.


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

zoe tate said:


> How are you marketing them?
> 
> I see that most people posting above dislike your covers. I admit that I'm not greatly enamored by them, myself, either, but I think they will be only a partial explanation at best, because (a) you used to sell them well with these covers, and (b) you sell them elsewhere with these covers.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting about those books, Zoe! I think I'll get them too, because I can't sell my self published erotic romance on Amazon either. Or anywhere else very much, for that matter...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I agree with everyone about the covers.  I had to squint to see the pictures.  Now in the interest of being fair.  I will read one of your freebies.
I didn't bother to look at the blurbs.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Alexis,
Can you please look at the "The Billionaire's Fixer?  I just opened it and it looks like I came in mid-scene.  Opening line is "Are you wet?"

It was a bit jarring.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Add another vote for one saying it might have something to do with your covers. Definitely too dark, in my opinion. I personally buy books as much for the covers as for the blurb. The cover is usually what draws me in initially, and then I read the blurb.

I'd say gloss up your covers a bit more to make them catch the eye of potential readers/customers.


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

Boyd said:


> What categories are you putting them in?
> 
> If it's Fiction > Erotica then full stop, that's an easy fix.


Not sure what you mean by this.

I'm using the keywords that will put the books into the erotica sub categories:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A3RTWC5Y4P5391


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

portiadacosta said:


> Thanks for posting about those books, Zoe! I think I'll get them too, because I can't sell my self published erotic romance on Amazon either. Or anywhere else very much, for that matter...


Which is crazy because you have gorgeous covers. What are you using for keywords?


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## LeeBee (Feb 19, 2014)

Agree with everyone about the covers. I would never bother clicking them. Too dark to see what they are, and the titles are so tiny, it's not worth the effort to even look. I don't care what your name is, if I am not already a fan - the titles, however, might tell me something that would entice me... if I could see them.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh I asked my husband what he thought the books were.  He said black covers and I have no idea what they are.  He also said he could tell something was on them but not what.
He is more visually oriented than I am.


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

Boyd said:


> When amazon asks you to pick categories to put your fiction into (not the keywords) which is section 3. 3. Target Your Book to Customers:
> 
> Those are the categories I'm talking about. They play a big role on where you are seen whether or not you are in the adult dungeon.


I know that much, but you seemed to be implying they might in the wrong category ...


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

No, that makes sense, thanks Boyd.


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

I've re-categorised my permafree entry titles. Let's see if that gives a boost to the freebie downloads.


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

Daizie said:


> Which is crazy because you have gorgeous covers. What are you using for keywords?


Thanks! I've been using keyword strings based on the content ie. bdsm type keywords for the bdsm books, menage for the menage and so on. I've been studying the Amazon lists of keywords for various erotica sub categories and trying to pick appropriate ones.


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

Boyd said:


> I'm sorry, not what I meant...
> but if they are in Fiction > Erotica your second category will not show up and only folks searching a certain way will find it  That's all I meant.
> 
> I don't put anything in the Fiction > Erotica category for that reason, and I've had better luck using Fiction > romance > erotic or Fiction > Romance > (whichever genre is closest).... then using keywords to hone it in further.
> ...


Is it possible to change categories to get out of 'erotica'? I've heard people say that once you're in, you can't get out again. I would like that to be wrong because if I knew now what I knew when I first uploaded some of my stuff, I would have done things differently!


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

Boyd said:


> I tried searching for your book from amazon's main page "object of desire". After 3 pages the search results weren't even close, so I checked salesrankexpress.com and it doesn't show up as an adult label... so I went into the kindle store on amazon.com and I was able to find it... so I am guessing yours is also in fiction > erotica which is the same as the adult dungeon. If you remove that category and use another one...


Yes, I've always put my work in erotica and romance>erotica. Mostly they're short, and so they don't have a full romantic 'arc' so I wasn't sure I could really justify putting them in romance.

Thanks for the reminder about weekends and Carlos F! Shudder...


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## Kate Oscar (Mar 12, 2014)

Is there ever a situation where one would want to file a book under erotica?


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## CrissyM (Mar 14, 2012)

I have to agre with everyone. It's your covers.

It isn't just that the market has moved on, it's that there are TONS of new erotica writers out there, so you have to really grab peoples attention with first looks or why would they bother reading your work? 

Plus the prominent author name, and sark smoky image makes me think "Murder Mystery" not erotica. I can't even tell what the title might be from the thumb nail so I probably won't take a second look at it unless I have read your work before.


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

portiadacosta said:


> Is it possible to change categories to get out of 'erotica'? I've heard people say that once you're in, you can't get out again. I would like that to be wrong because if I knew now what I knew when I first uploaded some of my stuff, I would have done things differently!


It is possible to move out, but you have to Amazon sometimes to get your books switched to romance. Both JA Huss and Blair Babylon had their books changed within the last couple of weeks. Both authors saw a huge reduction in sales/DLs when they manually switched to erotica.


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## jamielakenovels (Jan 14, 2014)

Besides the covers, I'd definitely say think about switching genres. For example, when I switched from gay erotica category to gay romance I sold 5 times as many copies overnight (literally overnight). That was the only change I made, just switching categories.


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## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Cover fashions change also.  About two years ago I think there were a lot of those really dark covers around.  At the moment lighter and brighter definitely does it - at least quite visible anyway.

Melody


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

Boyd said:


> I'm sorry, not what I meant...
> but if they are in Fiction > Erotica your second category will not show up and only folks searching a certain way will find it  That's all I meant.
> 
> I don't put anything in the Fiction > Erotica category for that reason, and I've had better luck using Fiction > romance > erotic or Fiction > Romance > (whichever genre is closest).... then using keywords to hone it in further.
> ...


I'm curious about the category change, too. I've abandoned trying to choose a non-erotica main category because my chosen keywords always shove me back into erotica. How are my erotica readers going to find my books based on keywords if I'm not using erotica-related keywords? I should add that I am currently NOT using erotica categories for mine, yet they only show up in the erotica categories due to the keywords I've chosen.

Also, to the OP, I agree with the others about the cover designs. Your covers are too dark to see what's going on, particularly at thumbnail size.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Covers. They're hard to see on the computer, and can't imagine how difficult they are to see on a device like a Kindle.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

Boyd said:


> The keywords will definitely get you into the sub categories  They will not move your main category, and if it's fiction > erotica; your search-ability will be extremely difficult for a new author. For folks who have a bigger mailing list and a reader base... it may not be that big of a deal, but for me.... Having my stuff behind the adult filter (self imposed or not) hurt sales tremendously.


If only that were the way it actually worked. If you search for my latest book under Paranormal Romance (one of my two chosen categories, the other is Contemporary Fantasy), the book doesn't show up. In the book's sales page, however, it is very clearly ranked in the top 100 of one of the Erotica subcategories, and DOES show up when you search in the erotica subcategories.


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

Wow I'm using some of this advice! I had no idea that listing it as Fiction > Erotica was bad. 

Mine are 5000 word short stories that are pretty much 3000 words of sex, but I'm going to go ahead and change them to Fiction > Romance > Erotica to try and boost visibility.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

Boyd said:


> http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2013/04/30/survival-tips-for-the-pornocalypse-erotica-writers-get-armed-and-ready/
> 
> I've been doing this and following Selena and Kmatthews' methods since october. This blog post pretty much explains what I'm talking about.... Believe me or not, but I don't think anybody would doubt the validity of the blog post


Reading that now (I'd seen it but hadn't read it before). It looks like my third book HAS been adult filtered. That's the only one, though (for some reason when I published it 2 weeks ago I DID choose an erotica category, so that may have had something to do with it).

Any suggestions why it got filtered? Would just having it in the Fiction>Erotica category cause them to flag it as adult, or could it be something about the cover, description, or title? If I had to guess, it's because I put "anal sex" in the description...

That doesn't explain why my first two books, which are not adult filtered, only show up in erotica searches rather than in the categories I've put it in (they do show up in an all department search of their titles, at least).

I'm not meaning to be testy, and I appreciate the help a lot. I'm just trying to understand how things work so I can navigate the waters appropriately.


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

JessePearle said:


> Reading that now (I'd seen it but hadn't read it before). It looks like my third book HAS been adult filtered. That's the only one, though (for some reason when I published it 2 weeks ago I DID choose an erotica category, so that may have had something to do with it).
> 
> Any suggestions why it got filtered? Would just having it in the Fiction>Erotica category cause them to flag it as adult, or could it be something about the cover, description, or title? If I had to guess, it's because I put "anal sex" in the description...
> 
> ...


Yes. The bare breasts are too visible. You can't even have hand bras without Zon freaking out, and you just have a transparent bar across them.


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

I agree. My immediate reaction was it's the cover of book three that's doing it.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

Daizie said:


> Yes. The bare breasts are too visible. You can't even have hand bras without Zon freaking out, and you just have a transparent bar across them.


Thanks. I'm contemplating leaving it alone, just to see if it makes an obvious difference in sales. It's one book and the third in a series... I'll be more conscious of the potential filtering issues for the rest. Who knows, maybe it doesn't matter so much for a series? I should mention that it IS selling decently for the first two weeks since I published it (better than the second in the series for the two-week span).


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

I do love the cover. It's so pretty.


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

Useful advice about the change of category.  I'll have to try that.  Must restrain myself from doing it now though.


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

Just wondering... has anyone managed to get their categories changed ie. out of fiction>erotica and into something like romance>contemporary, *without* actually petitioning Amazon to do it? 

And many thanks for all the advice on this thread, guys! 

Edited to add:

Now I think about it, I've a horrible feeling that since I changed my keywords to more erotic ones, in strings, that sales have got worse. Although with so few, it's hard to tell...


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

Just changed "Worth her weight in gold" from Erotica->Romance to Romance->Erotica through the KDP interface and it was approved ( though I'm still ranking in the Erotical->Historical subsection ).

To be fair, the book is more romance than erotica so it wasn't a lie to push it in there.  I'd not be able to do the same with things like "One Way Ticket".


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

NicoleSwan said:


> Just changed "Worth her weight in gold" from Erotica->Romance to Romance->Erotica through the KDP interface and it was approved ( though I'm still ranking in the Erotical->Historical subsection ).
> 
> To be fair, the book is more romance than erotica so it wasn't a lie to push it in there. I'd not be able to do the same with things like "One Way Ticket".


Thanks, Nicole!

Next week, I will try to recategorise 'Fire and Ice' via the interface. I can put my hand on my heart and say this *is* a romance. It's very sexy, but the storyline is quite a sweet romance arc. Several of my others also follow a romance arc and end with HEA or the definite promise of it. So, if F&I gets approved, I'll try with those others.

But there are some that I'll probably leave as is, because nobody could really call them romances and AMZ probably wouldn't entertain a change.


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## Grace Elliot (Mar 14, 2011)

On a theme - as a reader - how do readers find erotica books if the search is filtered?
As an experiment I put 'erotica' into the search bar on Amazon and didn't get a chart (ie top 100) 
So how do fans of the genre find new authors and books?


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## Tia K (Sep 28, 2013)

I'll go with the others. its the covers. iv had difficulties to tell what are those about and as you know i messaged you to ask what to get. if you remember.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Grace Elliot said:


> On a theme - as a reader - how do readers find erotica books if the search is filtered?
> As an experiment I put 'erotica' into the search bar on Amazon and didn't get a chart (ie top 100)
> So how do fans of the genre find new authors and books?


You get to the chart after searching for something and finding something on the chart. Books in erotica are NOT hidden from general search. That's the "adult dungeon" aka ADULT tag. It's different from just being in erotica.

But absolutely, finding the TOP 100/HNR for erotica is a PITA. Its something that people come across mostly by accident.


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

One downside of shifting to the Romance->Erotica category, you miss out on all the sub-genres and subsequently can lose your top-100 rankings even when you're holding the same overall Amazon rank ( I was sitting at #2~9 in Erotica->Historical and #50~#99 in Erotica->Romance ).


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## Spinneyhead (Nov 4, 2010)

Well, I've moved a few of my longer form erotica out of erotica and into Romance>erotica. I can at least claim that they have romantic arcs, in amongst all the other stuff. Let's see what happens to them.....


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

Just moved "Holiday Release" over to the Romance->Erotica , again, no complications.  I did reword the blurb to shift the presentation slightly. 

Now to sit back and see if anything happens.

Also, my "Worth her weight in gold" shift still hasn't regained any Top-100 categories, so it seems that is going to be one of the penalties if you are already riding high on the ranks.  Fortunately "Holiday Release" is going through a very quiet spell, so no harm.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2014)

I was also going to suggest the covers. And this is no judgment. My own I think are a bit outdated now, too.


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

TheForeverGirlSeries said:


> I was also going to suggest the covers. And this is no judgment. My own I think are a bit outdated now, too.


Covers can be a real tricky thing to judge on... one thing we personally have to be careful of is getting bored of our own covers simply because we see them every day and eventually are over exposed.

That said, I agree, the OP's covers could do with a bit of a livening up, even just a easing off the darkness?


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

It's odd because my covers are darker on this site (and elsewhere) than they actually are on Amazon. Not sure why.

But anyway, thanks for all the feedback, much appreciated x


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Alexis-Shore said:


> It's odd because my covers are darker on this site (and elsewhere) than they actually are on Amazon. Not sure why.


They're really dark on Amazon for me, just like in your signature. I have an older monitor, so it could be that, but if that's a problem for me, then other customers must have this issue as well.

Edited to note: not that I'm a customer, just that I meant that people looking at your books could have the same broke-and-can't-afford-a-newer-computer problem.


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes, it can be very difficult to gauge colour & brightness on most screens.  Even if you have a perfectly calibrated display you'll still be fighting with the ones that aren't.  Just have to shoot more for a middle-ground :\


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

NicoleSwan said:


> One downside of shifting to the Romance->Erotica category, you miss out on all the sub-genres and subsequently can lose your top-100 rankings even when you're holding the same overall Amazon rank ( I was sitting at #2~9 in Erotica->Historical and #50~#99 in Erotica->Romance ).


I started thinking about this after I switched it. My three erotica books are pretty much just straight erotica. Won't I get hammered by reviewers for having it in the Romance>Erotica sub genre as opposed to just straight erotica? There's really no romance at all in these books.


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

JRODell said:


> I started thinking about this after I switched it. My three erotica books are pretty much just straight erotica. Won't I get hammered by reviewers for having it in the Romance>Erotica sub genre as opposed to just straight erotica? There's really no romance at all in these books.


If your books are really erotica, then that's where they belong. That category (Romance>Erotica) is a more comfortable fit for books that can go either way, steamy and explicit but with a romantic component. Many authors have success in the Erotica category, so it's not all bad, unless you are Adult-filtered.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah, please don't put straight out erotica in romance. It just leads Zon to crack down more on us.


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

I have another one. This is a book by a friend and it got flagged as "adult". Would the cover have been the reason? (It's a girl's scantily-clad backside, but otherwise nothing overtly sexual) - or is it the description?
http://www.amazon.com/My-Totally-Crazy-Love-Life-ebook/dp/B005IC37QY

He only just published at the beginning of the month and I'm trying to give him some tips to improve his ranking.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

JRODell said:


> I started thinking about this after I switched it. My three erotica books are pretty much just straight erotica. Won't I get hammered by reviewers for having it in the Romance>Erotica sub genre as opposed to just straight erotica? There's really no romance at all in these books.


Yes, you'll get hammered, deserving so. I personally would hammer a book if its sold as romance and its anything but. I have done so before.

I am a bit disappointed how throwing erotica in romance so casually is suppose to be ok as seen as in this thread. Here is the thing, if you do that and its not romance, I don't want to see any threads ever here complaining about "bad" reviews, or how the readers "didn't get it" and all that. 

I guess what readers want doesn't seem to matter anymore, as long as its good marketing.  Although how it can be that when romance readers are being deceived and those looking for erotica wouldn't really look in romance.

I guess now I know why the romance category has been loaded with erotica lately.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

JessePearle said:


> I have another one. This is a book by a friend and it got flagged as "adult". Would the cover have been the reason? (It's a girl's scantily-clad backside, but otherwise nothing overtly sexual) - or is it the description?
> http://www.amazon.com/My-Totally-Crazy-Love-Life-ebook/dp/B005IC37QY
> 
> He only just published at the beginning of the month and I'm trying to give him some tips to improve his ranking.


The cover. I'd consider removing the bit about the "innocent young girl" though before asking to have the adult tag removed.


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## Jay Walken (Feb 7, 2013)

deedawning said:


> I tried to find the blog but couldn't. Selena Kitt wrote an article where she pointed out the Amazon in their battle against erotica started filtering it and labeling it Adult. books tagged with the Adult label are buried strictly in the erotica basement never to see the light of _normal _books day. My erotic sales are down too in the last few months, but then again all my sales have been down, since the Great Amazon Free-For-All started. If I find the article I'll post the link.


I'm surprised you're able to get naked people in your covers. I thought that even g-strings and cupped breasts were blocked--Meaning, they send you to the adult dungeon. Short of wearing a tie and a suit, I think that erotica covers need no more than a suggestion of not-visible nudity.


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## Jay Walken (Feb 7, 2013)

JessePearle said:


> I have another one. This is a book by a friend and it got flagged as "adult". Would the cover have been the reason? (It's a girl's scantily-clad backside, but otherwise nothing overtly sexual) - or is it the description?
> http://www.amazon.com/My-Totally-Crazy-Love-Life-ebook/dp/B005IC37QY
> 
> He only just published at the beginning of the month and I'm trying to give him some tips to improve his ranking.


Well, I can't say much for my own blurbs, my books are hardly selling (and I certainly welcome any feedback). But as far as this blurb, I am surprised that it gets him into the adult filter. There's not a single dirty word in there. (Is "sex" a dirty word now?). If at all, I'd probably cut out the last two lines, which sound too self-approviing:

Read the book and have one hell of a good time while you're doing it. 
And by the way, it really is very well written.

Is it possible, besides, that erotica readers want real, unadorned smut, and not "well-written" books? Don't know, I'm no expert at this genre.


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

Will the word "Sex" in the title get you buried in the dungeon?


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

JRODell said:


> Will the word "Sex" in the title get you buried in the dungeon?


Yes.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

Jay Walken said:


> And by the way, it really is very well written.
> 
> Is it possible, besides, that erotica readers want real, unadorned smut, and not "well-written" books? Don't know, I'm no expert at this genre.


IMO, anything in the description that says 'well written' sounds like 'the author/publisher is trying to prove themselves' to me. It's like saying 'there are absolutely no spiders in this box of chocolate covered cherries.' Why are you telling me about spiders? Is there something I should know?


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

Alexis-Shore said:


> Yes.


Damn. Now I have to come up with a new title. I really liked "Sex Zombies from Mars" too. It was so campy.


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## Huldra (Nov 7, 2013)

MonaM said:


> It's like saying 'there are absolutely no spiders in this box of chocolate covered cherries.' Why are you telling me about spiders? Is there something I should know?


*Puts away box of chocolates* So thanks for that imagery...

Ahem, anyway--since this seems to be the current 'how-to-erotica Thread of Awesome', I have a wee question or two for you experienced ladies and gents.

Am I understanding the Adult Prison-guidelines correctly if I assume that naughty KEYWORDS get your book locked up too? I.e. 'forced non-con fisting extravaganza' will land you behind digital bars, even though your cover, title and blurb are all pretty demure?

And if that's the case... how do you direct traffic to your work of smut, if keywords, cover, blurb and even categories need to be somewhat downplayed?


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## Daizie (Mar 27, 2013)

SWilder said:


> *Puts away box of chocolates* So thanks for that imagery...
> 
> Ahem, anyway--since this seems to be the current 'how-to-erotica Thread of Awesome', I have a wee question or two for you experienced ladies and gents.
> 
> ...


That's the problem, discoverability while trying not to get the ban hammer of people like Carlos F. Authors want the right readers to find their work. But non-con, dub-con/reluctance and pseudo-incest are not only being Adult filtered but often blocked. It's a rough road for writers of edgier stuff, NPI.


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## LaurindoJones (Mar 25, 2014)

The book that's here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005IC37QY/

I certainly will look into the marketing stuff-thanks Jesse for letting me know about this site and the discussion.

As to "well-written" at the end of my book's description, it didn't go in by accident. I sent a lot of years writing copy, and I think it's probably true that long copy sells, as they say. So if someone is going to read all my description and get to the end, why not toss in that reassurance. After all, the book is clearly smut. And so much of the stuff on Amazon can't make that claim. I don't think it is like saying there's no spiders in the chocolates. I think its more like saying _really good chocolate_.

But that's just me.


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## Huldra (Nov 7, 2013)

LaurindoJones said:


> The book that's here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005IC37QY/
> 
> As to "well-written" at the end of my book's description, it didn't go in by accident. I sent a lot of years writing copy, and I think it's probably true that long copy sells, as they say. So if someone is going to read all my description and get to the end, why not toss in that reassurance. After all, the book is clearly smut. And so much of the stuff on Amazon can't make that claim. I don't think it is like saying there's no spiders in the chocolates. I think its more like saying _really good chocolate_.
> 
> But that's just me.


I believe the point being made is that, even when you buy chocolate, if you're in the mood for really good chocolate, you don't pick the ones that say 'REALLY GOOD CHOCOLATE' in bright yellow on the package. You (general you) pick the ones in fancy wrapping that are priced as a quality product--the ones that LOOK like they're super yummy. I suppose it all goes back to the whole 'show, don't tell' concept.


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## Huldra (Nov 7, 2013)

Daizie said:


> That's the problem, discoverability while trying not to get the ban hammer of people like Carlos F. Authors want the right readers to find their work. But non-con, dub-con/reluctance and pseudo-incest are not only being Adult filtered but often blocked. It's a rough road for writers of edgier stuff, NPI.


Well... I suppose I'll get my keywords changed into something slightly less straight forward then, and hope that the code is crackable by readers. 
(Plus get a US tax number asap and make the hike to Selena Kitt's site)


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## Aero (Jan 17, 2014)

JRODell said:


> d*mn. Now I have to come up with a new title. I really liked "Sex Zombies from Mars" too. It was so campy.


Would "Dyslexic Xes Zombies from Mars" work?  It might just open you to a whole new readership!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Atunah said:


> . . . *I am a bit disappointed how throwing erotica in romance so casually is suppose to be ok as seen as in this thread.* Here is the thing, if you do that and its not romance, I don't want to see any threads ever here complaining about "bad" reviews, or how the readers "didn't get it" and all that.
> 
> I guess what readers want doesn't seem to matter anymore, as long as its good marketing.  Although how it can be that when romance readers are being deceived and those looking for erotica wouldn't really look in romance.
> 
> I guess now I know why the romance category has been loaded with erotica lately.


I noticed this too.


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

Atunah said:


> I am a bit disappointed how throwing erotica in romance so casually is suppose to be ok as seen as in this thread.
> I guess now I know why the romance category has been loaded with erotica lately.


I see the error in this and have since corrected the mistake.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

To those that put well-written in the description:  I always pass those up.  Every book I have ever gotten that said well-written was not even readable.
  Let the reader decide.  What you think is well-written may be total crap to someone else.  

If your book isn't selling it is probably lack of visiblity.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

cinisajoy said:


> To those that put well-written in the description: I always pass those up. Every book I have ever gotten that said well-written was not even readable.
> Let the reader decide. What you think is well-written may be total crap to someone else.
> 
> If your book isn't selling it is probably lack of visiblity.


Plus, "well-written" is harder to defend when a simple spell check of the blurb would catch errors.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

crebel said:


> Plus, "well-written" is harder to defend when a simple spell check of the blurb would catch errors.


Ouch. Agreed.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

"Well-written" has no place in a book description. That's like saying "this book is full of words." The reader is going to assume these things until proven otherwise. 

Also, erotic romance in which actual romance and a HEA/HFN are present are fine in romance categories. Straight-up erotica belongs in romance like it belongs in spiritual self-help.


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## Twizzlers (Feb 6, 2014)

crebel said:


> Plus, "well-written" is harder to defend when a simple spell check of the blurb would catch errors.


I always wonder when a reviewer gives a 1-star and says "typo ridden" if they're talking about misspellings or if they really notice misplaced commas and the like?


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

JRODell said:


> I always wonder when a reviewer gives a 1-star and says "typo ridden" if they're talking about misspellings or if they really notice misplaced commas and the like?


I don't review, so in this case I was referring to the blurb of the "well-written" book where "zeigiest" (even this post doesn't want me to type that) is used instead of "zeitgeist". I think there could be lots of reason a reviewer might say "typo ridden", but if they were strong enough in knowledge of the rules (I'm not) to be bothered by misplaced commas, etc., I think they would talk about grammar rather than typos. Who knows? I tend to notice misused words rather than minor typos that are in most books (traditional and self-published). The particular typo I mention above jumped out at me _because_ the book was being billed as well-written. It may very well be, but the blurb doesn't convince me enough to find out.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

JRODell said:


> I always wonder when a reviewer gives a 1-star and says "typo ridden" if they're talking about misspellings or if they really notice misplaced commas and the like?


I don't think I've ever reviewed as much, but I've seen both misspellings and grammatical errors that should've been caught (and, I should note, not just in self-published books).


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## Huldra (Nov 7, 2013)

Just a quick note to say I think I've solved the mystery of the Romance--->Erotica subcategory.

It's for the co.uk site, which doesn't have erotica subcategories. Might be worth checking it alongside straight-up erotica and see if you can get into both.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Boyd said:


> http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2013/04/30/survival-tips-for-the-pornocalypse-erotica-writers-get-armed-and-ready/
> 
> I've been doing this and following Selena and Kmatthews' methods since october. This blog post pretty much explains what I'm talking about.... Believe me or not, but I don't think anybody would doubt the validity of the blog post


Did Selena take down that awesome post? I remember reading it a while back and went to track it down today. It's posting a 404 error.


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## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Have your sales improved?  I like your covers and the darkness too but I think the large author name bothers me.  Not only is it too big for an erotica author name (many erotica authors have really tiny author names on their books) but the thick huge bold lettering makes me think it is some type of thriller at first glance.  Maybe using a more dainty font, a skinnier one or a script font and then make the title big instead of your name?  Just bouncing around ideas...


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## jcalloway (Jan 10, 2014)

Donna White Glaser said:


> Did Selena take down that awesome post? I remember reading it a while back and went to track it down today. It's posting a 404 error.


http://selenakitt.com/blog/survival-tips-for-the-pornocalypse-erotica-writers-get-armed-and-ready/

Looks like she reformatted her blog so the links are all slightly off.


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## AnyaWrites (May 16, 2014)

Donna White Glaser said:


> Did Selena take down that awesome post? I remember reading it a while back and went to track it down today. It's posting a 404 error.


Yes it's slightly different. You can find the link at http://selenakitt.com/blog/survival-tips-for-the-pornocalypse-erotica-writers-get-armed-and-ready/ now.


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## AnyaWrites (May 16, 2014)

jcalloway said:


> http://selenakitt.com/blog/survival-tips-for-the-pornocalypse-erotica-writers-get-armed-and-ready/
> 
> Looks like she reformatted her blog so the links are all slightly off.


You were too quick for me.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for helping me find it!


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## Alexis-Shore (Feb 20, 2011)

Melody Simmons said:


> Have your sales improved?


Yes, they have thanks. They are what I would expect now based on sales on other channels.


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## Jeanne Lynn (Nov 19, 2012)

jcalloway said:


> http://selenakitt.com/blog/survival-tips-for-the-pornocalypse-erotica-writers-get-armed-and-ready/
> 
> Looks like she reformatted her blog so the links are all slightly off.


In her blog post, Selena Kitt advises erotica writers to try to put their books in the "romance" category rather than erotica.

From Selena Kitt's blog post on the pornocalypse: "If your book has two characters who fall in love and have a happy ever after, put it in romance. I don't care if they're men, women, or giant mutant chipmunks. Put that book in romance."


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## Melody Simmons (Jul 8, 2012)

Jeanne Lynn said:


> In her blog post, Selena Kitt advises erotica writers to try to put their books in the "romance" category rather than erotica.
> 
> From Selena Kitt's blog post on the pornocalypse: "If your book has two characters who fall in love and have a happy ever after, put it in romance. I don't care if they're men, women, or giant mutant chipmunks. Put that book in romance."


Until you get 1 star reviews from romance readers saying the book was all sex and no romance...


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Melody Simmons said:


> Until you get 1 star reviews from romance readers saying the book was all sex and no romance...


Haha, yea. I'd be upset if I bought what I thought was a romance and it turned out to be just mostly erotica.


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## Jeanne Lynn (Nov 19, 2012)

Melody Simmons said:


> Until you get 1 star reviews from romance readers saying the book was all sex and no romance...


I agree. I just thought it was interesting that she gave out that advice.


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## Paranormal Piper (Sep 24, 2012)

Jeanne Lynn said:


> I agree. I just thought it was interesting that she gave out that advice.


I don't know if she's updated that info but, if I remember correctly, the original post is fairly old. The erotica rules are always changing. Once upon a time ago, 50 Shades would've been classified as Erotica but now it's Romance. Still good advice if there's actually romance in the story but the plot and characters need to back that up. Just tacking on an HEA doesn't automatically make an erotica into a romance.


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## mikakay (Jul 27, 2014)

I seem to be having the same problem so this thread arrived just at the right time.


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## jimbro (Jan 10, 2014)

portiadacosta said:


> Mostly they're short, and so they don't have a full romantic 'arc' so I wasn't sure I could really justify putting them in romance.


You can still legitimately label them as romance even if they lack the full romantic arc and HEA ending: They would just be poorly written romance . There are a lot of those.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

This may improve sales in the short term, but if its not a romance, it's just making indies look bad and will lead to more issues with books being monitored and blocked. If it's not a romance, don't put it in romance. If you're not sure, the best thing to do is read some mainstream erotic romance and learn the differences.


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## Honeybun (Nov 25, 2012)

OT:

Cryptic, I absolutely LOVE your user pic with they licky cat!!!!!!!!!


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

Kat S said:


> This may improve sales in the short term, but if its not a romance, it's just making indies look bad and will lead to more issues with books being monitored and blocked. If it's not a romance, don't put it in romance. If you're not sure, the best thing to do is read some mainstream erotic romance and learn the differences.


Except Amazon isn't playing fair. They've gamed the system, so the authors are playing along by their rules. If you could put your stuff in Romance or Erotica and it was just as easy to find either place, I think 96% (approx) of Erotica writers would put their stuff in Erotica. But under Amazon's current system, if you label your stuff Erotica, there's a huge chance your stuff will simply vanish into a dungeon and then you have to start playing games with the good people at KDP to get it listed somewhere else.

I don't understand why all of these stores make it so difficult for Erotica. It is BIG BUSINESS for them. They already suppress it on the Bestseller lists (basically, if they didn't, the bestseller lists would be wall to wall porn). They allow pretty foul movies to be sold from their storefront.


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## AnyaWrites (May 16, 2014)

Diane Patterson said:


> Except Amazon isn't playing fair. They've gamed the system, so the authors are playing along by their rules. If you could put your stuff in Romance or Erotica and it was just as easy to find either place, I think 96% (approx) of Erotica writers would put their stuff in Erotica. But under Amazon's current system, if you label your stuff Erotica, there's a huge chance your stuff will simply vanish into a dungeon and then you have to start playing games with the good people at KDP to get it listed somewhere else.
> 
> I don't understand why all of these stores make it so difficult for Erotica. It is BIG BUSINESS for them. They already suppress it on the Bestseller lists (basically, if they didn't, the bestseller lists would be wall to wall porn). They allow pretty foul movies to be sold from their storefront.


This^^

PS. I love your book covers Diane!! I'm usually too impatient to read mysteries, but I can't pass yours up!


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## Honeybun (Nov 25, 2012)

Diane Patterson said:


> Except Amazon isn't playing fair. They've gamed the system, so the authors are playing along by their rules. If you could put your stuff in Romance or Erotica and it was just as easy to find either place, I think 96% (approx) of Erotica writers would put their stuff in Erotica. But under Amazon's current system, if you label your stuff Erotica, there's a huge chance your stuff will simply vanish into a dungeon and then you have to start playing games with the good people at KDP to get it listed somewhere else.
> 
> I don't understand why all of these stores make it so difficult for Erotica. It is BIG BUSINESS for them. They already suppress it on the Bestseller lists (basically, if they didn't, the bestseller lists would be wall to wall porn). They allow pretty foul movies to be sold from their storefront.


I second Anya... ^^This ^^


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Ada O'Flaherty said:


> OT:
> 
> Cryptic, I absolutely LOVE your user pic with they licky cat!!!!!!!!!


Daww, thanks! I thought it was hysterical.


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