# My Book Cave - New Content-rated Ebook Promotion Site



## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm involved in managing a new site for author promotions, and we are looking for great books to promote (sorry, no erotica at this time). All promotions are FREE, if you are approved, but the catch is you need to rate your book according to its heat, violence, and language. We are officially launching our site with giveaways, ads, and publicity in a few weeks, but we are already up and running with awesome subscribers and authors.

As an author myself, I'm excited about this concept-l've had my share of readers are either upset because my story is too clean or hate that it's too passionate and violent. This way there are no surprises and that should mean better reviews for us. You will find the author submission link in the footer of the main page. Here is the URL, and happy promoting! https://mybookcave.com/.


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## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

I neglected to mention that before you submit, you should read their guidelines. They will only promote books with a 4.0 or higher rating (on Amazon) and novellas only if they are free. We have some author tips on the FAQ to help!


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2015)

According to your site, in addition to no erotica, the site will also will not promote any LGBT fiction, correct?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Anma Natsu said:


> According to your site, in addition to no erotica, the site will also will not promote any LGBT fiction, correct?


Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I might not have noticed since I don't do erotica and hence had no reason to look at that part. It is too bad. I was thinking of trying it out, but won't use an advertiser that discriminates against LGBT.


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## SasgoraBooks (Aug 27, 2015)

Is there a word length limit on what you except? Also, are there guidelines on how to rate the criteria, like 5 F-bombs equals such and such rating?


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## KDKinney (Aug 16, 2015)

Bookmarked. Will check this out.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I might not have noticed since I don't do erotica and hence had no reason to look at that part. It is too bad. I was thinking of trying it out, but won't use an advertiser that discriminates against LGBT.


Ditto


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

> You could have a very mild book in sex and violence, but over ten curse words, and it'd still go into the Adult+ rating.


Under these standards, the majority of YA fiction I've read would be considered adult. I have no horse in this race, because I don't plan on submitting for the same reasons mentioned above, but I find this policy to be a terrible indicator of ratings. Under these guidelines, a 50K book with a curse word every 20 pages would constitute an adult rating? Even PG-13 films have considerable more cursing, including, on occasion, the dreaded 'f' bomb. There's a reason books aren't rated the same way we arbitrarily rate other forms of media.

I don't understand the reasoning behind marking content adult for cursing, even when a book lacks sexual or violent situations. I don't understand it in the same way that violence is more acceptable than sex. It's a personal hangup of mine.

Obviously, going into the future, you're going to want to capitalize on this service and start charging. If someone submits a book that's listed as Adult, will they be paying the same price as someone who lists their book as All Audiences, even though their reach will suffer? I'm sure there are readers out there who desire a service like this, but for me, I'm not digging it.

Good luck with your endeavor, however.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Teyla Branton said:


> I neglected to mention that before you submit, you should read their guidelines. They will only promote books with a 4.0 or higher rating (on Amazon) and novellas only if they are free. We have some author tips on the FAQ to help!


I was quite impressed with your first post, thought it a refreshing change, but then this post reveals it is just another site which only wants books which are already selling. What a shame.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

This is a new site, so I don't think they have a firm grasp on who their subscriber base is. It's a niche category so the readership could be difficult to build, but so are cookbooks and religious fiction. It's entirely within the site's purview as to what they will and will not promote, as it's my right to take issue.

The wording in the OP also doesn't inspire much goodwill at this time.



> and we are looking for great books to promote (sorry, no erotica at this time)


Of course the OP probably didn't intend for her words to be taken the way I took them, but I take issue with the grammatical construction of the sentence. For me, it implies erotica is inherently the opposite of the preceding phrase,


> great.


 Again, none of this affects me on a personal level. I don't write erotica or LGBT fiction at this point in time.

Someone will come along, or already has and I've missed the ship, and build a mailing list specifically for readers of LGBT literature. I've seen my fair share of promotion sites who refuse LGBT listings, and it's always over moral objections. These objections stand hand-in-hand with puritan morality; sex is bad, violence is fun. So, I'll wait for an LGBT list and the first day it arrives in my inbox, I'll throw a tantrum because I'll be enraged that I had to subscribe to such a mailing list in the first place.

Inclusion hurts nobody. Exclusion hurts those that are already marginalized, and I'm not referring to actual pain. I'm referring to the very same idea that LGBT has to be its own damn category/genre in the first place.

_Edited to remove quote of now deleted post. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. I will pass on the comments from everyone. They are still adjusting ratings and so forth. Just like movies, swearing will push up the rating level, but I agree that the adult should be a little more broad. As for the choices about the genres offered, there are only so many they can do starting out, so the limitation isn't to hurt or discriminate against anyone. They have chosen to launch the business with the most popular genres among their subscribers. But, again, I'll pass on the comments. There are a lot of genres they would eventually like to add or separate.

And come on--can we give everyone the benefit of the doubt? I'm not sure why anyone would be upset about the comment that they aren't accepting erotica. No insult was intended, so please don't take offense! These are rated books and the readership really isn't there for that audience. There are a lot of sites that do promote erotica. I don't think it's necessary that we demand that they accept sweet romances or children's books, right? Each site has a target audience.

To answer the question about length, it's all on the website, but adult and teen books need to be 50,000. Childrens and non-fiction can be less. They only accept novellas if they are free.

As I said before, it's a new site, and it's free.


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## jrwilson (Apr 7, 2015)

Just submitted.  Thanks.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

You misunderstand.

We are not upset at all about not accepting erotica. Many sites limit genres. Erotica is a genre.

LGBT, however, is NOT a genre. It's a persuasion. There will be LGBT characters in many books, including virtually all of mine. I strenuously object to being rated on that. LGBT people are part of life, and not accepting them to me is like "no blacks", "no women", "no greenies". IMNSHO that's discrimination and will get people's backs up. It's not about the erotica at all.


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## James R Wells (May 21, 2015)

Teyla Branton said:


> As for the choices about the genres offered, there are only so many they can do starting out, so the limitation isn't to hurt or discriminate against anyone. They have chosen to launch the business with the most popular genres among their subscribers. But, again, I'll pass on the comments. There are a lot of genres they would eventually like to add or separate.


But the site guidelines don't have a limited list of genres - only exlcusions. So saying "... genres offered, there are only so many they can do " doesn't appear to be an accurate description of the site guidelines.

One exclusion is erotica, which is understandable for any number of reasons. The other notable exclusion is LGBT, which is hard to construe in 2015 as anything other than discriminatory.

And perhaps it goes to the definition of LGBT. What about novels that include LGBT characters because of, you know, reality? Mine does. As well described below ~



Patty Jansen said:


> You misunderstand.
> 
> We are not upset at all about not accepting erotica. Many sites limit genres. Erotica is a genre.
> 
> LGBT, however, is NOT a genre. It's a persuasion. There will be LGBT characters in many books, including virtually all of mine. I strenuously object to being rated on that. LGBT people are part of life, and not accepting them to me is like "no blacks", "no women", "no greenies". IMNSHO that's discrimination and will get people's backs up. It's not about the erotica at all.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

I would like to point out that I _MAY HAVE_ had a little bit of wine last night


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## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

James R Wells said:


> And perhaps it goes to the definition of LGBT. What about novels that include LGBT characters because of, you know, reality? Mine does. As well described below ~


Good question, and one I just brought up to them today. I need to come up with a proposal, lol. (That's what I get for opening my mouth.)

My Book Cave is all about giving readers the option to choose content before they buy the book. If LGTB is not a genre, or shouldn't be a genre, and is included with all the other books, what would you suggest to give subscribers the option not to receive books with those elements? Because just as it is important to give some the option to have certain elements in the books they read, some people (and I say some people because I'm not thinking of anyone specific) think it's every bit as important to give options to readers who don't want those elements. Which is why the content ratings evolved in the first place.

I suspect a check box of some sort would probably offend some people, unless there were also check boxes regarding race, religions, ethnicities, and so on. But I'd love to present a concept, if any of you have ideas that are inclusive while still allowing everyone options, because everyone has reading preferences, which are just as valid as anyone else's. Their goal really is to get great books to subscribers.

I appreciate the input! I'm not sure that putting labels on the owners or anything is helpful, though, or accurate. Programming a good site is extremely difficult, as any of you into programing know (I'm not a programmer, but I've seen enough to recognize the challenges and logististics of book ratings), and I think they've done a good job in making it easy for authors and readers.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> My Book Cave is all about giving readers the option to choose content before they buy the book. If LGTB is not a genre, or shouldn't be a genre, and is included with all the other books, what would you suggest to give subscribers the option not to receive books with those elements? Because just as it is important to give some the option to have certain elements in the books they read, some people (and I say some people because I'm not thinking of anyone specific) think it's every bit as important to give options to readers who don't want those elements. Which is why the content ratings evolved in the first place.


Content warnings for sex (including gay sex) -- yup. Violence? -- yup. Bad language? --yup.

But I simply cannot see why gay characters should be put in special boxes for existing, because we'd all agree that if there was a content warning about "includes black people", that would be downright discriminatory.

I think you're (or the developers) are overthinking this. I would think that some people would object to sex, gay or not, but if there are gay characters in the book and no sex? I very much doubt too many people would object to that. OK, someone is going to come along and say I don't know how [insert adjectives I shouldn't probably say on this board] some people are, but then again, those people would not be browsing general books, because they'd be pretty much offended by life itself, and would stick to very limited suppliers of their choice.

Again, IMNSHO, I think that by attempting to pander to those people (who would not shop at a general site), you offend far more people than you retain. I really do think that you should be careful to market yourself as something clearly-defined, not try to be everything. You're either a conservative religious-based site and cater to those people, or you're a site where mothers can safely buy books for their young teens if they're worried about them being exposed to certain content, or for people who have exceeded their swear-quota for the year.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

Teyla Branton said:


> My Book Cave is all about giving readers the option to choose content before they buy the book. If LGTB is not a genre, or shouldn't be a genre, and is included with all the other books, what would you suggest to give subscribers the option not to receive books with those elements?


But the current system isn't anything at all like this though, right? You don't have the option of filtering books by individual content, just an arbitrary equation of content? Some people may have no problem reading about violence, but want to avoid sex. There isn't measures in place to filter these books to particular readers tastes. Other sites have content filtering, but they're indicated based on individual attributes. I believe Fussy Librarian has filters for violence and sex, and maybe a few others.



> I suspect a check box of some sort would probably offend some people, unless there were also check boxes regarding race, religions, ethnicities, and so on.


Unfortunately LGBT is a category despite my personal reservations about it. It's really a simple solution to have readers check the boxes of the genres they want to receive, and not check the genres they don't want to read. I think the problem we've run into, between your company and the members here, is that there was a specific mention of excluding this one genre (plus erotica). There was no specific mention of disregarding any other genre that wasn't named. When it's phrased this way, it doesn't give much credence to the idea the exclusion is for the sole reason of not having the audience.



> I appreciate the input! I'm not sure that putting labels on the owners or anything is helpful, though, or accurate.


Are the 'labels' factual, or necessary? Maybe not, but there's a history of promotion sites (as well as every other facet of existence) excluding LGBT fiction, and it's hard to believe it's because there's a lack of an audience. LGBT fiction is a booming market, so for me, at this point in time, I'm automatically inclined to call BS when the genre is excluded because of a lack of an audience.



> Programming a good site is extremely difficult, as any of you into programing know (I'm not a programmer, but I've seen enough to recognize the challenges and logististics of book ratings), and I think they've done a good job in making it easy for authors and readers.


I appreciate the efforts, and I'd love to see more promotional sites giving the bigger guns a run for their money. However, and I say this not with malice or ill intent, but I think the system is incredibly flawed for the reasons mentioned in my first paragraph. Take away the LGBT issue, and I still think you've got a very flawed rating system. Readers don't discriminate against various 'offenses' equally, and the ratings should reflect that. There should be different ratings for Language, Violence, Sexual Content, etc...


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

A character in one of my medieval novels is homosexual; does that mean you wouldn't accept my book?


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

Doglover said:


> A character in one of my medieval novels is homosexual; does that mean you wouldn't accept my book?


I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she's referring to fiction classified as LGBT.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

K.B. said:


> I don't think that's what she's saying. I think she's referring to fiction classified as LGBT.


Yes, but didn't someone point out that LGBT is not a category, not a classification at all? I could be wrong, I often am, but it seems to me that people here are objecting to the assumption that LGBT is another branch of erotica. I am just asking for clarification. As already said, she may as well have a box to tick with says: 'no blacks' or 'no Asians'.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Content warnings for sex (including gay sex) -- yup. Violence? -- yup. Bad language? --yup.
> 
> But I simply cannot see why gay characters should be put in special boxes for existing, because we'd all agree that if there was a content warning about "includes black people", that would be downright discriminatory.
> 
> ...


This is exactly how I'm feeling about this. You're going to lose a whole lot of readers and writers who might otherwise be interested in promoting on your site if you're excluding books based on some aspect of the characters. Creative people don't tend to like prejudice of any kind and KBoarders tend to be a rather open-minded group of creatives.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Teyla Branton said:


> My Book Cave is all about giving readers the option to choose content before they buy the book. If LGTB is not a genre, or shouldn't be a genre, and is included with all the other books, what would you suggest to give subscribers the option not to receive books with those elements? Because just as it is important to give some the option to have certain elements in the books they read, some people (and I say some people because I'm not thinking of anyone specific) think it's every bit as important to give options to readers who don't want those elements. Which is why the content ratings evolved in the first place.


LGBT isn't an "element." It's a characteristic of a person. I think the reason an LGBT label was created for books is because LGBT characters were originally hard to find in fiction and it helped people who wanted to read about them. It's the same reason classes on Women are labeled that way in colleges because it was once rare for history to be viewed from a woman's perspective. To me, excluding LGBT books is like setting up a college curriculum that purposefully excludes any courses that focus on women's perspectives. Since writers are trying to diversify their characters in modern literature, it seems to me there could be a long list of topics and character types that might offend readers with closed minds.


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## Marseille France or Bust (Sep 25, 2012)

I just submitted my Kickstarter book. Love the site. Very professional. Thank you for offering another avenue where we can get the word out about our books for free. There are very few free, quality sites out there, and this is one of them.

I do have a erom paranormal romance releasing Oct. 15 that I wish I could promote on the site. But it doesn't fit their requirements, so I'll have to keep looking elsewhere. I've already added it to 23 other sites.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

heading out the door for an all day show, no time to deal with this. Locking for now (apologies to the OP for locking your service thread). Ann will review or I will later.

Joe, posting something against forum decorum and then saying it is okay for us to delete it doesn't mean it's okay to post. In fact, it kind of signals that you know you are being inappropriate.

Betsy
KB Mod

--------------
After much discussion, we've decided to re-open the thread after a major clean up. Comments derogatory toward the OP as well as toward other members -- and ensuing commentary -- have been deleted. _-- Ann_


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## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

PatriceWilliamsMarks said:


> I just submitted my Kickstarter book. Love the site. Very professional. Thank you for offering another avenue where we can get the word out about our books for free. There are very few free, quality sites out there, and this is one of them.


I hope your book does great! And I hope you'll submit other qualifying books in the future. New sites grow faster when they are able to feature authors with great books, so I appreciate the support. Our subscriber base is increasing daily, though it is interesting that many sign up for the same ratings. It'll be interesting to see if that changes in a year from now when we have tens of thousands of new subscribers.



K.B. said:


> But the current system isn't anything at all like this though, right? You don't have the option of filtering books by individual content, just an arbitrary equation of content? Some people may have no problem reading about violence, but want to avoid sex. There isn't measures in place to filter these books to particular readers tastes. Other sites have content filtering, but they're indicated based on individual attributes.


This is in the works and will go live soon, but it will be within the existing rating system. Readers will pick an overall rating, but submitting authors will click boxes under each topic (sex, kissing, language, violence, etc) and from what they choose, they'll be placed into a rating category. For example. Your book may be rated Adult for one or two things, and Moderate in others, but the Adult rating will apply. However, the listing will say why: Adult for language, extensive and gruesome violence. Or Moderate for language. Or Mild+ for passionate kissing, language). So it'll actually be a lot like the movies ratings that tell you why the rating was chosen. Because having 150+ ratings for all the difference possibilities is a programming nightmare and it dilutes potential readers. But adding a content note will help subscribers decide if they want to go ahead with the book regardless of the rating. We all know that a great description and cover sell books, so with this system, we feel readers will subscribe to more categories and find more books they'll love.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Teyla,

Just so you're truly "official":

Welcome to Kboards!

You're welcome to promote your business and website here in the Writers' Cafe!

Now that you have an official thread, you'll want to add your listing to our Yellow Pages Listing, found here:
http://www.kboards.com/yp/

The listing is free to KB members and is completely self-service; you can add and edit your listing from the page. More information on our Yellow Pages listing can be found here.

In your thread here, we ask that the same basic rules be followed as we have for authors in the Book Bazaar: you may have this one thread about your service and must post to it rather than start a new thread each time. New threads about the service will be removed. Please bookmark this thread so that you can find it again to post to. And, you may not make back-to-back posts to the thread within seven days. If someone responds (such as this post), you may reply but otherwise must wait seven days, thanks!

Ann
KBoards Moderator

_(Note that this welcome does not constitute an endorsement or vetting of a service by KBoards. Members should do due diligence when considering using a service.)_


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## Claire Ryan (Jun 7, 2012)

I submitted the first book of my epic fantasy - it's pretty light on swearing, sex and violence, so I'm guessing it'll play well to a more conservative audience.

Worth a shot anyway.


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## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

quote author=Ann in Arlington link=topic=223596.msg3137061#msg3137061 date=1445022155]
Teyla,
Just so you're truly "official":
Welcome to Kboards!
[/quote]

Thank you for the welcome. Getting used to the forum has been challenging actually, so I'm grateful to have the tips

[


Claire Ryan said:


> I submitted the first book of my epic fantasy


Looks like a fun book! Hope it does really well for you.


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## LilithKDuat (Apr 22, 2015)

Since I write erotica I can't take advantage of your site, which is fine.
However, I was going to show it to two of my author friends but since they're both queer and have queer characters, I won't. Not until the LGBT policy is changed.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up! Will definitely check it out.

As far as the LGBT thing goes, I don't see it as being any different than saying "we don't promote genre romance" or "we don't promote science fiction." Genre LGBT is not everyone's thing. So what? If you're going to force promo sites to promote it, are you also going to force readers to read it?

Disappointed to see that the mods removed all of my posts but kept the pile-up on the OP that derailed the thread in the first place.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

I have a suggestion. When you reject a book that meets all your guidelines, you might provide a reason as to why.


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## Christine_C (Jun 29, 2014)

Joe Vasicek said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Will definitely check it out.
> 
> As far as the LGBT thing goes, I don't see it as being any different than saying "we don't promote genre romance" or "we don't promote science fiction." Genre LGBT is not everyone's thing. So what? If you're going to force promo sites to promote it, are you also going to force readers to read it?
> 
> Disappointed to see that the mods removed all of my posts but kept the pile-up on the OP that derailed the thread in the first place.


It just says "At this time, My Book Cave does not feature erotica, serials, poetry, or LGTB." So that depends what is meant. If it means "no LGBT erotica," then fine.

If it means they won't feature any books with gay characters even if it's, say, a totally clean YA book or mystery, then that's pretty outrageous.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Joe,

as you well know, civility is required here.  Your pruned posts, along with a few others, crossed the line.  And you were aware of it, as you stated in your post that you knew I would remove it.

As far as members (civilly) stating that they would not use a service because of exclusions or requirements, several different restrictions have been commented on, not just LGBT:  erotica, swearing, and a requirement for 4.0 in reviews, just off the top of my head.  This kind of feedback is useful both for our membership and for the vendor--and then each group can decide how they want to proceed.  

And the response by vendors to negative feedback is also important.  Teyla has been very civil and measured in her responses despite some of the posts here.

If you have any further comments about the moderation of this thread, please PM me so as to not derail Teyla's thread again, thank you.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## 67499 (Feb 4, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> But I simply cannot see why gay characters should be put in special boxes...


As usual, Patty nails the fundamental issue. I think the site has something to offer readers. But my comic crime series has a lesbian as a main character, so her mere participation in the stories excludes the series from consideration. That's too bad. I really think the folks setting up this new site haven't completely thought through the issue and will now, in response to this thread. We can give them a break.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I think it's interesting that, reading back through the thread, no explanation of the meaning of this LGBT exclusion has been offered. The site owner hasn't explained whether this means books that are specifically in some way "about" LGBT (meaning, what? Erotica? Though that would seem to be covered by the "erotica" exclusion; M/M romance? What, exactly?) Or whether it means books that have LGBT characters.

(Some of my books do; some don't. Because life's kinda like that. It has gay people in it.  )

As a startup site, it seems important to realize that you'll be putting lots of people off with an unexplained exclusion like that. It comes off as, "We don't approve of homosexuality, and neither do our readers." If that's what you mean, or if it isn't--you might want to make that clearer.

_Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> I think it's interesting that, reading back through the thread, no explanation of the meaning of this LGBT exclusion has been offered. The site owner hasn't explained whether this means books that are specifically in some way "about" LGBT (meaning, what? Erotica? Though that would seem to be covered by the "erotica" exclusion; M/M romance? What, exactly?) Or whether it means books that have LGBT characters.
> 
> (Some of my books do; some don't. Because life's kinda like that. It has gay people in it.  )
> 
> As a startup site, it seems important to realize that you'll be putting lots of people off with an unexplained exclusion like that. It comes off as, "We don't approve of homosexuality, and neither do our readers." If that's what you mean, or if it isn't--you might want to make that clearer.


I feel the same way. It's like the question of why LGBT characters makes a book unacceptable to the site isn't important enough to explain. I wonder what their stance is for LGBT authors who label themselves that way in their bio, but submit a book without LGBT characters. Would that be acceptable? I would really like to see this clarified.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, civil questions to the vendor about what kinds of books will be allowed on the site are legitimate.  Speculation is not nor are posts that attribute motivation to the vendor/site.

Thanks,

Betsy


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## TRB (Mar 7, 2013)

brkingsolver said:


> I have a suggestion. When you reject a book that meets all your guidelines, you might provide a reason as to why.


I think so too! But it does make it more time-consuming and more expensive. Book editors do have the option to include the reason for rejection (called Submission Codes), but they must do it by hand, so it's not required. If there is no reason stated, it could simply be that they have too many books in that genre within a certain time frame. They promote only one one book of the same genre/rating each day. I don't know any particulars about anyone's books here, but if there are two many negative reviews talking about typos, or if the first bit of the story doesn't grab them, or they think it won't resonate with the subscribers as well as another book offered at that time, books might also be rejected. They also have a designer looking at covers now. Doesn't have to be extraordinary, it just needs to be appealing.


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## Claire Ryan (Jun 7, 2012)

The Meldling got accepted 

I shall report back with results once the promo is over.


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

Teyla Branton said:


> Good question, and one I just brought up to them today. I need to come up with a proposal, lol. (That's what I get for opening my mouth.)
> 
> My Book Cave is all about giving readers the option to choose content before they buy the book. If LGTB is not a genre, or shouldn't be a genre, and is included with all the other books, what would you suggest to give subscribers the option not to receive books with those elements? Because just as it is important to give some the option to have certain elements in the books they read, some people (and I say some people because I'm not thinking of anyone specific) think it's every bit as important to give options to readers who don't want those elements. Which is why the content ratings evolved in the first place.


Okay - here's the thing. The reader isn't receiving the book. They are receiving a promo for the book. They can always choose not to buy it. If you had a place for readers to opt IN for receiving LGBT books (which several sites have) - that would be acceptable to authors because we can then also narrow our audience to those more likely to be interested in our specific book.

The problem is, you are instead EXCLUDING books with those characters, which is highly discriminatory. As a writer of LGBT romance, there are plenty of sites where I just buy in to the romance category and I know some readers will elect not to buy my book (just like they might choose not to buy for a variety of other reasons). Basically, I over-pay for a broader audience than probably benefits me, but I'm not EXCLUDED from being able to promote.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I think my earlier post got modded because I didn't express myself clearly enough, so I'll try again. My point was that I WOULD, as a reader and a writer, make assumptions about a site that didn't accept books that had LGBT characters. I'd assume that the site was for readers with a particular socio-religious bent. I think most people would assume that. That's the only reason I'd be able to come up with for that exclusion. And those readers would be unlikely to enjoy my books, as people have sex outside of marriage and sometimes use bad language (as well as there being gay characters included), so there'd be no point in advertising on that site. 

So that was my point. Not whether or not a site can exclude books on whatever basis--far as I'm concerned, it's their site, and they can do what they want. Just that I think the OP might consider making it clearer what that exclusion actually refers to, because I personally was confused. (LGBT isn't a "category," I don't believe, so it's a bit hard to figure out what that is referring to.)


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## AveryCockburn (Jul 5, 2015)

IreneP said:


> Okay - here's the thing. The reader isn't receiving the book. They are receiving a promo for the book. They can always choose not to buy it. If you had a place for readers to opt IN for receiving LGBT books (which several sites have) - that would be acceptable to authors because we can then also narrow our audience to those more likely to be interested in our specific book.
> 
> The problem is, you are instead EXCLUDING books with those characters, which is highly discriminatory. As a writer of LGBT romance, there are plenty of sites where I just buy in to the romance category and I know some readers will elect not to buy my book (just like they might choose not to buy for a variety of other reasons). Basically, I over-pay for a broader audience than probably benefits me, but I'm not EXCLUDED from being able to promote.


Ditto to all of this. I think most authors of LGBT fiction prefer to have a targeted list so we know readers who want our books will see it and those who don't, won't. I'm reluctant to pay much for a site without an LGBT-specific list--not because I think they're bad, but because my marketing budget is more effectively spent elsewhere.

FWIW, Bookbub recently had a post on their blog about the very high levels of engagement (click-throughs and downloads) in two of their smaller lists: LGBT and African-American books. Just something for the OP to consider, since engagement through affiliate links is what makes a list profitable, if I'm not mistaken.


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## Maia Sepp Ross (May 10, 2013)

I might just be having Sunday Brain, but I'm still not clear on the LGBT issue. 

I write Women's Fic and Sci Fi. All my books have gay characters in them. Would my books be accepted?


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## AveryCockburn (Jul 5, 2015)

JLCarver said:


> In the interest of fairness, I don't see any references to LGBT on their site anymore, unless it's hidden somewhere, and I didn't dig deep enough. But I went through all their submission info, and it seems to only list erotica as the one genre they don't accept. I would still like some confirmation, but I think it's a good sign. I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. And their site looks great too.


It was there as of last night, but it looks like they've changed the guidelines on the site to eliminate the exclusion, which I for one appreciate. Maybe it was the feedback offered here that changed their policy. Perhaps I'll submit my gay romance when I do my next promo, as it meets all the other requirements.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2015)

Doglover said:


> I was quite impressed with your first post, thought it a refreshing change, but then this post reveals it is just another site which only wants books which are already selling. What a shame.


Unfortunately, it is just another Amazon-centric discount site. I don't really see what this site is going to do that other larger services aren't already doing. The only people who can use a service like this are those who are exclusive to Amazon (and thus can use the sales pricing) or those who want to jump through hoops and pray Amazon price-matches in time for the promotion. The site is going after the same demographic as every other mailing list.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Unfortunately, it is just another Amazon-centric discount site. I don't really see what this site is going to do that other larger services aren't already doing. The only people who can use a service like this are those who are exclusive to Amazon (and thus can use the sales pricing) or those who want to jump through hoops and pray Amazon price-matches in time for the promotion. The site is going after the same demographic as every other mailing list.


I have never noticed before, because I have always been exclusive with Amazon for most of my books. It is always links to Amazon, reviews on Amazon, isn't it? Nobody cares what the book is doing elsewhere.


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## Nancy_G (Jun 22, 2015)

I submitted and was turned down.  Must be the dark grittiness of my book.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Nancy G said:


> I submitted and was turned down. Must be the dark grittiness of my book.


Did they say why?


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## Nancy_G (Jun 22, 2015)

Doglover said:


> Did they say why?


I can't find the response now, but I think something like it wasn't the right fit for them? Not specific at all as I remember.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Nancy G said:


> I can't find the response now, but I think something like it wasn't the right fit for them? Not specific at all as I remember.


That is a catch all, isn't it? I seem to recall getting a very polite rejection letter from an agent forty years ago which used those exact words!


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## ShawnB (Oct 19, 2015)

Hi, I'm Shawn, and I'm also working with My Book Cave. We're actually asking if the moderators will allow me to takeover and post a new thread. The continuous pileup posting about LGTB, when the OP was obviously working on a solution, was frustrating to my co-worker. She had some past experiences with being targeted online, and with the tone that prevailed here, despite the moderators best efforts, she felt it was better to bow out, and concentrate on her job of marketing the site and writing her own books. So I'll be answering questions when I'm here at the office and can get away from site development and my own writing (which I don't plan on posting about).

Actually, My Book Cave gives preference to authors who sell with all vendors. We firmly believe that authors can and should gain a strong foothold in all markets, Kobo and Google included. I am personally surprised at how authors give all their books only to Amazon. There are ways to get your books noticed on other sites and make real money, and while it takes time to grow a following, it is done by serious authors all the time. Most months, one third of my income is from other platforms, and sometimes it goes as high as forty or fifty percent, depending on promotions I do with other authors. As MBC grows, we hope to see more and more authors who have diversified. For example, as much as I dislike any Apple hardware, iBooks is a great source of income to me. This is one of the reason I've invested thousands of dollars in MBC. I wanted to see more sites that market to all ereader owners. Just the amount of reading people do on phones is huge--many of them iPhones.

I feel the most important thing about My Book Cave is that we are rating books. If you don't feel that way, then maybe the site isn't for you as a reader. But I know from personal experience that I hate being surprised by drawn-out sex scenes in my hard science fiction. And while I don't generally mind cursing, books with extensive swearing make me feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of lazy high school dropouts with no creativity. It's just plain tedious to wade through. But others may feel completely different--and that's why I help start My Book Cave. So that readers have a choice before they buy.

In fact, a new author rating system will start later today or tomorrow that will allow us to better place the books and every single book will have the reason it is rated that way. So readers can better choose. People who want rated books tend to be more conservative, so our featuring choices will reflect that. Also, we have several different people approving books, and there will be some irregularities and differences of opinion there. One is a professional editor and too many errors in the previews will flag a concern for her. Covers that aren't eye-catching, not enough reviews, or too many negative reviews all saying the same thing will also be a concern. Like it or not ratings are a reflection of that readers are feeling about the book, and that must be taken into consideration, especially when we are offering free features. I've actually asked the editors to pay more attention to poor blurbs because I've noticed we've approved some that aren't that great. You need a great blurb to sell a book. You don't want a summary of the book, you want something that grabs the reader. And then, of course, we have the book itself. Our focus is to find well-written books, and as more and more authors submit, we'll have more to choose from and to offer to our readers.

We have news releases going out by a professional company that hits thousands of print and online newspapers, as well as and large site promotions coming up next week, and we hope that just having your books on the site will help residual sales. Our Facebook views are way up, for instance, and we have begun tweeting books for up to a week after the promotion using different hashtags. As yet, it's impossible to tell what action (aside from emails) will sell a specific book, but we are giving our authors everything we can, especially given the free price tag, and we believe that will increase substantially as more and more readers discover rated books.

I'm sure I left some questions out, but hopefully I will get them later.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

"Actually, My Book Cave gives preference to authors who sell with all vendors." 

So now you are prejudiced against writers who give Amazon exclusive rights? That lets me out then.

I'm not at all impressed with this. So you make half your income from other sites? Good for you, doesn't mean the rest of us could or even should. Why don't you give equal importance to everyone, instead of preference to non-Amazon exclusive authors.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2015)

> She had some past experiences with being targeted online, and with the tone that prevailed here, despite the moderators best efforts, she felt it was better to bow out, and concentrate on her job of marketing the site and writing her own books.


The tone was in direct response to the fact that it appeared your site was discriminating against a segment of the population and treating the very existence of a gay person in a book as "dirty." Your co-worker failed to provide a clear answer to the questions, which led to increased frustration by posters.



ShawnB said:


> Actually, My Book Cave gives preference to authors who sell with all vendors. We firmly believe that authors can and should gain a strong foothold in all markets, Kobo and Google included. I am personally surprised at how authors give all their books only to Amazon.


And yet your demand that books be placed on sale at 50% or more plays precisely to Amazon. Particularly for those of us that do not play the "follow the bouncing price" game, it is frustrating that your site ultimately is just another discount deal list. But there are only two ways to run a "sale" on Amazon: be exclusive, and you get to run short term sales. Or if you aren't exclusive, lower your price at a vendor that allows it and hope Amazon price matches.



> Like it or not ratings are a reflection of that readers are feeling about the book, and that must be taken into consideration, especially when we are offering free features.


Ratings on Amazon are a reflection of authors jumping through hoops to obtain reviews because sites like your require reviews. Sites like yours are, in fact, the reason why review sellers make so much money. There is no place to advertise a new release without reviews, but you can't get reviews without either giving away hundreds of copies for free or selling a lot of books. But you can't give books away to people who don't know it exists and you can't sell books without promoting them. But sites like yours don't promote books without reviews.

I don't personally take issue with a rating system per se. There are readers who want clean books, and I respect that. But other than filtering for sex and bad words, I, unfortunately, see nothing new and interesting about your service. It is just another discount seller pandering to the bargain basement crowd. I don't know if the world needs yet another discount outlet. I wish if someone was going to invest thousands of dollars in something, it would be a genre-specific service to promote books to readers who maybe just want a damn good book and aren't overly concerned about the perpetual sales mentality that permeates indie marketing. I desperately would be interested in a service that could filter by genre, or actually help me find books with strong female characters, or identify books with minority protagonists that aren't "minority" titles. But nobody ever goes in that direction. Everybody goes for the low-hanging fruit of the discount deal crowd.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I just want clarity on one issue:

_"People who want rated books tend to be more conservative, so our featuring choices will reflect that."_

So you were/are discriminating against LGTB books? You want to cater to a conservative crowd and LGTB books are a poor match for that audience?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

Ann and I literally just got in our cars from having lunch together...she's driven off and I used my phone to look something up and saw the report.  We'll both be home in the next hour and will review the thread.

EDIT:  I apologize for this taking so long to resolve..entirely my fault.  This issue will be resolved later today.

Betsy


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