# What's the deal with Twilight?



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Ok- as someone who hasn't read the series I shouldn't be over critical. But I didn't really like the sample and I've been warned off of reading the books from several friends who described it as "preteen hormonal drivel with no plot". As that is kind of harsh I thought I'd ask for the scoop from more people who have read the books, so I'm not going by just one or two people's opinions.

What did you enjoy about it? Does it get better after the sample? 

Or useful criticism if you didn't enjoy it?


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

I haven't read any of the books but was warned off by the flyleaf of the first in the series, (Twilight)

Vampires are undead creatures of hell, not romantic heroes.  They are incapable of love.  Love is antithetical to their entire nature.  I will never willingly read another novel in which vampires are treated as loving, caring heroes.  Ann Rice already destroyed the mythos.  I won't encourage its further denigration.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I haven't read any of the books but was warned off by the flyleaf of the first in the series, (Twilight)
> 
> Vampires are undead creatures of hell, not romantic heroes. They are incapable of love. Love is antithetical to their entire nature. I will never willingly read another novel in which vampires are treated as loving, caring heroes. Ann Rice already destroyed the mythos. I won't encourage its further denigration.


Good point! The fact that it is a romantic novel where it doesn't seem to portray vampires as having any real problems- not even sunlight- is a throw off.

Any suggestions of good novels where vampires are still treated as, well, vampires? The only one I'm thinking of now is Dracula. It doesn't really seem like there are too many classical vampire novels after Anne Rice romanticised them.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Good point! The fact that it is a romantic novel where it doesn't seem to portray vampires as having any real problems- not even sunlight- is a throw off.
> 
> Any suggestions of good novels where vampires are still treated as, well, vampires? The only one I'm thinking off now is Dracula. It doesn't really seem like there are too many classical vampire novels after Anne Rice romanticised them.





















They Thirst
Midnight Mass

Only the first one is available on Kindle.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Oh 'Salem's Lot! Of course! I enjoyed that book. Haven't read the others, hopefully they'll come out on Kindle eventually.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> 'Salem's Lot
> Fevre Dream
> They Thirst
> Midnight Mass
> ...


Ooh looks like Fevre Dream is available on Kindle.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Ooh looks like Fevre Dream is available on Kindle.


It wasn't a week ago! Hooray! Fantastic book! My second favorite vampire novel.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

All that one clicking got somewhere! That gives me hope!


----------



## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Vampires have been romanticized a lot. Dracula, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Fright Night.....


----------



## Kirstin (Oct 29, 2008)

I read them all....  I liked them but didn't love them.  They did keep me entertained though.


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Ok- as someone who hasn't read the series I shouldn't be over critical. But I didn't really like the sample and I've been warned off of reading the books from several friends who described it as "preteen hormonal drivel with no plot". As that is kind of harsh I thought I'd ask for the scoop from more people who have read the books, so I'm not going by just one or two people's opinions.
> 
> What did you enjoy about it? Does it get better after the sample?
> 
> Or useful criticism if you didn't enjoy it?


Read them all, enjoyed them. YA is my guilty pleasure. If you don't like much other YA fiction, you probably won't like these either - they're pretty typical, but I find them fun. However, I also enjoyed the sample enough that I wanted to see what would happen next. Now that I think of it though, the sample of the first book was pretty bland because nothing much happened. Bella moves to Forks, sees Cullens in the cafeteria, Edward is in her bio class and seems to hate her.


Spoiler



He's really a vampire! And they're going to fall in love! But you don't really get into any of that yet.


 So I might suggest trying the sample of the next book to see if that captures your interest a little more.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

marianner said:


> Read them all, enjoyed them. YA is my guilty pleasure. If you don't like much other YA fiction, you probably won't like these either - they're pretty typical, but I find them fun. However, I also enjoyed the sample enough that I wanted to see what would happen next. Now that I think of it though, the sample of the first book was pretty bland because nothing much happened. Bella moves to Forks, sees Cullens in the cafeteria, Edward is in her bio class and seems to hate her.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Thanks Marianner, that's good advice. Though it is a shame that not much happens in the first book. I do like some YA fantasy fiction. I like His Dark Materials, and the Abhorsen trilogy- btw if you haven't read either of those and like fantasy I would recommend both those series.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Did I mention my love for _The Prydain Chronicles_?


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

OH yes! The Prydain Chronicles! I keep clicking for the kindle version, hopefully they will have one up eventually.


----------



## Anniehow (Oct 28, 2008)

It certainly isn't going to increase your IQ, but it is very good.  I don't know what is it about it that grabed my attention, but it's a really engaging love story.  It is very easy to read because it's YA.  
I was unsure after reading the first chapter, because of it's "high school" overtones but I persisted, and I fell in love with the story.

To Bacardi Jim...your post is exactly how the male character feels about himself, he loaths what he is and what he craves.


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

I just finished Twilight.  It is a teen type novel but since all the teens are reading it I thought it was something I could talk about with teens and pre-teens. They are all obsessed with the series...and the movie is coming out next week so there will be a lot of hype about it.  Kind of why I read the Harry Potter books.  All the kids read them and it is a good way to connect with kids...common ground.  Having said that I enjoyed the book, it's an easy read,  and am now reading New Moon which is the next one in the series.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Anniehow said:


> It certainly isn't going to increase your IQ, but it is very good. I don't know what is it about it that grabed my attention, but it's a really engaging love story. It is very easy to read because it's YA.
> I was unsure after reading the first chapter, because of it's "high school" overtones but I persisted, and I fell in love with the story.
> 
> To Bacardi Jim...your post is exactly how the male character feels about himself, he loaths what he is and what he craves.


The only thing worse than vampires falling in love is _high school_ vampires falling in love.

*shudders*


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Though it is a shame that not much happens in the first book. I do like some YA fantasy fiction.


Oh, I didn't mean to imply that nothing happens in the first book, just that nothing happens in the _sample_! The first one is probably my favorite, actually. If you've seen the trailer for the movie, it seems like they actually stick pretty closely to the book.



Snapcat said:


> I like His Dark Materials, and the Abhorsen trilogy- btw if you haven't read either of those and like fantasy I would recommend both those series.


Thanks for the recs - I'll check them out!

You might also want to try _The Host_, also by Stephenie Meyer. It's marketed more toward adults, although it is appropriate for teens as well. I loved it, better than Twilight, IMO.


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I read the first 3 at the insistence of my oldest daughter. I didn't really care for them. I won't let My 2nd daughter read the last one because I haven't read it yet. From what I hear it's not quite appropriate.


----------



## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> I like His Dark Materials, and the Abhorsen trilogy- btw if you haven't read either of those and like fantasy I would recommend both those series.


Oh, I'll 2nd the Abhorsen trilogy. Kinda out there, but pretty good.


----------



## Tris (Oct 30, 2008)

Yeah, I'm in the "read it, and liked it, but not in love with it" camp.  I read the entire series this summer mainly because when I first saw the covers and I thought they looked cool and were everywhere in the bookstores.  The second reason was that it was based in WA, something that doesn't happen very often. 

I also agree that the first book isn't too thrilling or anything, but you have to consider the author wrote this as a series.  As in all series the first book is meant mainly to set the tone or background of the characters.

To me the series is very YA, and a very fast read.  Now if I can only stop my cousins and people asking me questions about WA (particularly about where the novel is set, Forks and La Push). 

Tris


----------



## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

(pout) I was so disappointed with the series. I read it when I first came out (thought it was okay...I've read better vampire novels) and then other girls (most of whom don't read often) at my high school started reading them. Then my high school schoolmates went crazy for it...That got annoying, but I was lucky and graduated from high school before it got really bad. Then my best friends had to suffer another year of the "OMG" girls. During my last year of high school, my most common question to my classmates was: "So what other books do you like?" or something along those lines. My most common reply: "This is the only books I've finished" Although that may have just been my high school.

I admit I was okay with the first and I am curious about the movie, but I am afraid to wonder to the movies this weekend with it being the debut weekend. When first the first Twilight book, I liked it. I reread read it a month or two later, then was okay with it. (which it somewhere close to like, but not hating) As for the rest of the series, my like started to dissolve into disappoint with each passing book and the last one did for me. I gave away my copies, minus the last one. I also must admit, the guy (Robert....i don't know the rest of his name) is hot, but I recognized his hot-ness when he was in Harry Potter.


----------



## cindy86488 (Oct 29, 2008)

VA you said you've read better vampire novels, I'm new to the genre (I totally enjoyed the 'Twilight' books) do you have any suggestions?  I love to get advice from other readers, I've found of my most favorite books this way.


----------



## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I LOVE The Hallow Series By Kim Harrison.
1st book is called "Dead Witch Walking." I love Kim Harrison little bits of humor in the book. Its a more adult than Twilight, but it isn't as smutty as some vampire series I have read.

Micheal Romkey's books were good.

I really like the first couple of books of the Anita Blake Series by Laurell K Hamilton, but later in the series it gets really...adult

There is also a vampire manga (japanese comic) called Vampire Knight that I love. I'll link it http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/. Its also available in English in bookstore, but the releases take much longer. This is due to the translations. Its easier to read online.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Vegas_Asian said:


> (pout) I was so disappointed with the series. I read it when I first came out (thought it was okay...I've read better vampire novels) and then other girls (most of whom don't read often) at my high school started reading them. Then my high school schoolmates went crazy for it...That got annoying, but I was lucky and graduated from high school before it got really bad. Then my best friends had to suffer another year of the "OMG" girls. During my last year of high school, my most common question to my classmates was: "So what other books do you like?" My most common reply: "This is the only books I've finished" Although that may have just been my high school.
> 
> I admit I was okay with the first and I am curious about the movie, but I am afraid to wonder to the movies this weekend. When first the first Twilight book, I liked it. I reread read it a month or two later, then was okay with it. (which it somewhere close to like) As for the rest of the series, my like started to dissolve into disappoint with each passing book and the last one did for me. I gave away my copies, minus the last one. I also must admit, the guy (Robert....i don't know the rest of his name) is hot, but I recognized his hot-ness when he was in Harry Potter.


The whole Twilight craze made me wonder if there was actually something to those books, but from all the people I have asked that have read them there really isn't apparently. It seems to me to be similar to the whole Harry Potter phenomenon- books that popularized reading for people that generally don't like to read. Harry Potter was hailed as being genius sheerly on the "it got kids to read" factor but I didn't see anything special when I read it. -shrug- Maybe I'm just missing something.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

cindy86488 said:


> VA you said you've read better vampire novels, I'm new to the genre (I totally enjoyed the 'Twilight' books) do you have any suggestions? I love to get advice from other readers, I've found of my most favorite books this way.


Have you read 'Interview with the Vampire'? If you want a novel where vampires have more human qualities I think that one does well.

If you want a novel where vampires are more of a monster, then 'Salem's Lot' is a good one.


----------



## cindy86488 (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks VA, the 'Dead Witch Walking' sounds like a definite purchase.  I just read about the 'Outlander' series also, I LOVE hearing from other readers about their favorites, thanks again for the tips!!

I also read (and loved) the Harry Potter books, to each his own I guess.  That's what's great about these boards, I'm learning about all kinds of new authors.  I know some of us 'older' gals can always learn from you younger folks, so I truly appreciated you taking the time to post.


----------



## cindy86488 (Oct 29, 2008)

Snapcat, I have read and totally enjoyed "IWaV" (many years ago), there are so darn many new books, a book really has to be exceptional for me to re-read it on my Kindle.  I did, btw, LOVE the Twilight series.  I hooked my older sister on them (she's 46) and she and I have a movie date to see the first movie on its opening weekend.  We haven't spent time together in probably 5 or 6 years, so it's been a positive 'guilty pleasure' for us


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Count me in as a fan of the Twilight series (I've read the first two). Granted, it's a shallow teen love story in many respects - but the characters are so well-drawn that you find yourself caring about them, and the author does an excellent job with the setting. The first book is slow and overlong - far from perfect - but I found myself charmed enough to continue on with the second. I'll likely read 3 and 4 on the Kindle.

As for Harry Potter, calling it a "book for people who don't like to read books" is nonsensical IMO. I can rail against J.K. Rowling all night for being too shortsighted to support the Kindle and for pettily suing the creator of a encyclopedia about the books, but she is a gifted writer who has crafted an absolutely amazing body of work with the HP series.


----------



## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

cindy86488 said:


> I did, btw, LOVE the Twilight series. I hooked my older sister on them (she's 46) and she and I have a movie date to see the first movie on its opening weekend. We haven't spent time together in probably 5 or 6 years, so it's been a positive 'guilty pleasure' for us


Beware of the possible overwhelming number of tweens and teens at the Twilight movie.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

1) God, I hate morons!
2) As to Philip Pullman's _His Dark Materials_ series: While marketed as a YA set of books, this is primarily (and, I believe, solely) because his protagonist is a teenage girl. This is pretty advanced stuff, from both a literary and philosophical standpoint. It is, essentially, the tale of a man who


Spoiler



discovers that God is both a lying conman and comatose who storms Heaven in a war to become the new God


 and his teenage niece who is kidnapped by even eviller forces. I absolutely would NOT permit my teen to read these books unless I were absolutely certain and confident in their religious education. The books are a direct affront and challenge to both Christianity and Judaism. This is not necessarily a bad thing in YA literature (heck, the _Narnia_ series is nothing but an endorsement of Christianity), but it DOES merit being warned in advance, especially for parents.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

I'll just add that as a "recovering Catholic," I found the series morally bankrupt in a way I hadn't felt since I read American Psycho.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

*waits on Snapcat's response*


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

CS said:


> As for Harry Potter, calling it a "book for people who don't like to read books" is nonsensical IMO. I can rail against J.K. Rowling all night for being too shortsighted to support the Kindle and for pettily suing the creator of a encyclopedia about the books, but she is a gifted writer who has crafted an absolutely amazing body of work with the HP series.


Well in my opinion, (which is apparently the minority here, and apt to call down the wrath of the legions of Harry Potter fanatics, lol) J.K. Rowling is one of those people that has interesting ideas and characters, but just isn't a very good writer. She writes IMO, like someone that constantly has a thesaurus out to see how many ways she can make "he said" into a long paragraph overusing adjectives and adverbs in every cliched way. I know that she is insanely popular, but usually novels that are immediately popular do not often stand the test of time or become classics. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with this inherently, even if these books do not end up "classics", everyone likes comfort food or comfort novels, and that shouldn't limit anyone's enjoyment of such a set of novels. I just think that the Harry Potter mania has made people ignore much better novels, (especially in the YA age bracket) in favor of the Harry Potter series and its multiple clones that have popped up since.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> *waits on Snapcat's response*


Haha ok give me a second after writing the Harry Potter response. Phew. LOL


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Well in my opinion, (which is apparently the minority here, and apt to call down the wrath of the legions of Harry Potter fanatics, lol) J.K. Rowling is one of those people that has interesting ideas and characters, but just isn't a very good writer. She writes IMO, like someone that constantly has a thesaurus out to see how many ways she can make "he said" into a long paragraph overusing adjectives and adverbs in every cliched way. I know that she is insanely popular, but usually novels that are immediately popular do not often stand the test of time or become classics. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with this inherently, even if these books do not end up "classics", everyone likes comfort food or comfort novels, and that shouldn't limit anyone's enjoyment of such a set of novels. I just think that the Harry Potter mania has made people ignore much better novels, (especially in the YA age bracket) in favor of the Harry Potter series and its multiple clones that have popped up since.


I heartily endorse this sentiment. EXCEPT.....there weren't any YA books of equal quality being written at the same time, were there?  (And yes, I've read every HP book at least twice.)


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> 1) God, I hate morons!
> 2) As to Philip Pullman's _His Dark Materials_ series: While marketed as a YA set of books, this is primarily (and, I believe, solely) because his protagonist is a teenage girl. This is pretty advanced stuff, from both a literary and philosophical standpoint. It is, essentially, the tale of a man who
> 
> 
> ...


When I read the series I took it less on the standpoint of: the tale of a man who


Spoiler



discovers that God is both a lying conman and comatose who storms Heaven in a war to become the new God


 and more of the tale of a man who


Spoiler



is aware of the corruption of organized religion and storms Heaven in a war to become the new God, but is stopped by a brave girl who fights on the side of good. "The Authority" is more of a corrupt, false god, still "a lying conman and comatose", but the book doesn't rule out the idea of a true "real" God.


 LOL which is pretty much what you said but there is a slight difference and it seems important enough for me haha. But I can see how these are ideas that possibly are a little too controversial for children, and I'm sure parents who want to tell their children what to believe in find this series at fault. Even so, or maybe because of this,  I really enjoy Pullman's exploration of such themes as well as his writing style and the worlds he created.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Snapcat:  I'm not offended by Pullman's message (well, I am a little bit) so much as the marketing of the books to curious/rebellious teens.

Surely you will agree with me that the novels require some level of religious education (beyond Sunday School) to appreciate both their message and their worth?


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Well in my opinion, (which is apparently the minority here, and apt to call down the wrath of the legions of Harry Potter fanatics, lol) J.K. Rowling is one of those people that has interesting ideas and characters, but just isn't a very good writer. She writes IMO, like someone that constantly has a thesaurus out to see how many ways she can make "he said" into a long paragraph overusing adjectives and adverbs in every cliched way. I know that she is insanely popular, but usually novels that are immediately popular do not often stand the test of time or become classics. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with this inherently, even if these books do not end up "classics", everyone likes comfort food or comfort novels, and that shouldn't limit anyone's enjoyment of such a set of novels. I just think that the Harry Potter mania has made people ignore much better novels, (especially in the YA age bracket) in favor of the Harry Potter series and its multiple clones that have popped up since.


I disagree wholeheartedly with your charge that she's not a very good writer. It takes talent to create a magical world, yet make it accessible and *relatable* to readers of all ages, while populating said world with a variety of rich, fully-realized characters, and elaborate plots, situations, and themes.

Yet, she's not a good writer because she writes "long paragraphs" and is guilty of, IYO, "overusing adjectives and adverbs in every cliched way"?

There's more to good writing than just the technical aspect. It's important, to be sure - but I've read many a writer who can "cross their t's and dot their i's," so to speak, and are still horrendous bores. With that said, I don't even know if I agree with you about her "poor" technical form.

As for whether her novels will stand the test of time and remain classics for the ages, neither of us has any way of knowing that for certain. Nevertheless, I'm willing to bet that Harry Potter will still be read in 50 or - dare I say - 100 years from now.

Since you feel the HP series has caused people to "ignore much better novels (especially in the YA age bracket)," I'd love to hear what some of these other novels might be.  I'm always in the mood for a good read, and if you can recommend books even better than the HP series without mentioning LOTR or Narnia (or even His Dark Materials or A Series of Unfortunate Events, neither of which I really have any interest in), I'm all ears.


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

Anything that gets kids reading is a good thing (with minor exceptions)...The Twilight series and the Harry Potter books have done that. They are both not literary masterpieces but pretty entertaining and the kids read them.  
The best vampire books...Ann Rice's ...Interview with a Vampire series.  I can't remember all the titles off hand but They were all good.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

CS said:


> Since you feel the HP series has caused people to "ignore much better novels (especially in the YA age bracket)," I'd love to hear what some of these other novels might be.  I'm always in the mood for a good read, and if you can recommend books even better than the HP series without mentioning LOTR or Narnia (or even His Dark Materials or A Series of Unfortunate Events, neither of which I really have any interest in), I'm all ears.


Well obviously I've already said how I feel about Harry Potter, and as you are entitled to your opinion and I won't go more into detail about mine. But as for YA fantasy literature- obviously you have already mentioned some of the obvious including Dark Materials, LOTR, Narnia. I would also check out Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain, the Dark is Rising series, A Wrinkle in Time series, The Abhorson Trilogy, The Earthsea Cycle, The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, The Once and Future King (Including Sword of the Stone), The Enchanted Forest Chronicles, Stardust, Black Unicorn, Howl's Moving Castle, Alice in Wonderland, Peter and Wendy, Bruce Coville's Into the Land of Unicorns, etc, etc. I'm sure there are so many. I guess it depends on what exact age group you want.  If you aren't sticking to fantasy, there are also YA classics such as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, and Treasure Island.

I would also suggest The Neverending Story, The Last Unicorn, and Watership Down which are among my favorite novels.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Snapcat: I'm not offended by Pullman's message (well, I am a little bit) so much as the marketing of the books to curious/rebellious teens.
> 
> Surely you will agree with me that the novels require some level of religious education (beyond Sunday School) to appreciate both their message and their worth?


I agree with you on that count, I think I was listing His Dark Materials as more of a series I enjoy and consider worth reading and not necessary thinking about what age group should read it  But yeah I could see how it possibly would be better appreciated by an older audience despite its marketed reading level.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> Anything that gets kids reading is a good thing (with minor exceptions)...The Twilight series and the Harry Potter books have done that. They are both not literary masterpieces but pretty entertaining and the kids read them.
> The best vampire books...Ann Rice's ...Interview with a Vampire series. I can't remember all the titles off hand but They were all good.


I agree reading is good. lol. I guess there are just so many good books out there I wish those kids would move on to a wider range. Some people just don't devour books as much as us kindle devotees I suppose.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Well obviously I've already said how I feel about Harry Potter, and as you are entitled to your opinion and I won't go more into detail about mine. But as for YA fantasy literature- obviously you have already mentioned some of the obvious including Dark Materials, LOTR, Narnia. I would also check out Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain, the Dark is Rising series, A Wrinkle in Time series, The Abhorson Trilogy, The Earthsea Cycle, The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, The Once and Future King (Including Sword of the Stone), The Enchanted Forest Chronicles, Stardust, Black Unicorn, Howl's Moving Castle, Alice in Wonderland, Peter and Wendy, Bruce Coville's Into the Land of Unicorns, etc, etc. I'm sure there are so many. I guess it depends on what exact age group you want.  If you aren't sticking to fantasy, there are also YA classics such as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, and Treasure Island.
> 
> I would also suggest The Neverending Story, The Last Unicorn, and Watership Down which are among my favorite novels.


Have you read the new Disney/Hyperion Peter Pan books? _Starcatchers_ was pretty meh, but _Shadow Thieves_ was faily entertaining. I haven't read _Rundoon_.


----------



## Yollo (Nov 10, 2008)

His Dark Materials: I saw Compass on the shelves of the YA section years ago, and read it, and was probably way too young to have been reading it. Most of it went over my head. Upon a rereading, I was AMAZED at all the things I had missed and all of its messages. I highly reccomend the series, but not to younger people.

HP/Twilight: I read these books for entertainment, not for quality of writing or lasting value. So, I couldn't care less if they're well written, if they hold my attention I'm pleased with them. I never picked them up expecting high literary achievment.

Peter Pan: I read Starcatchers and Thieves, and then dropped the series. Neither of them really held my attention enough to merit reading the third. However, if somebody says it was really good I may end up reading it.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

I'll also mention that we own the entire _Unfortunate Events_ series, and they frequently caused me to laugh out loud, despite their being incredibly formulaic.


----------



## RovingSoul (Oct 27, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> I just finished Twilight. It is a teen type novel but since all the teens are reading it I thought it was something I could talk about with teens and pre-teens. They are all obsessed with the series...and the movie is coming out next week so there will be a lot of hype about it. Kind of why I read the Harry Potter books. All the kids read them and it is a good way to connect with kids...common ground. Having said that I enjoyed the book, it's an easy read, and am now reading New Moon which is the next one in the series.


What's your version of kids? I'm 19, and all my friends are so obsessed with the books that I refuse to read them. I did that with Harry Potter as well though, and when I finally read them I fell in love. However, I think that the romantisizing of vampires is not only irritating, but dangerous. I have several friends who are so obsessed that they have started engaging in dangerous pasttimes. Drinking blood is just the start.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

RovingSoul said:


> However, I think that the romantisizing of vampires is not only irritating, but dangerous. I have several friends who are so obsessed that they have started engaging in dangerous pasttimes. Drinking blood is just the start.


Thank you. I couldn't agree more.


----------



## RovingSoul (Oct 27, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I'll also mention that we own the entire _Unfortunate Events_ series, and they frequently caused me to laugh out loud, despite their being incredibly formulaic.


Those books depress me. The kids can never catch a break.


----------



## Mnemosyne (Oct 31, 2008)

I've got pretty much the same opinion as others here of Twilight. I read it purely for enjoyment, not literary heaven. I don't have a problem with romanticizing of vamps (all kinds of evil creatures have gotten that treatment in stories before, and will continue to, I'm sure), but rather with the characters constant lack of self-esteem. Bella is never good enough, everything is always her fault, she doesn't deserve to be treated well...Edward's not much better. I enjoyed the story, but that got on my nerves. SM's "The Host" is a MUCH better read, but her main protaganist in that book has the same issue.

Nemo


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Have you read the new Disney/Hyperion Peter Pan books? _Starcatchers_ was pretty meh, but _Shadow Thieves_ was faily entertaining. I haven't read _Rundoon_.


No I haven't, I didn't know about that series. Thanks for the suggestion though. There is also "Tigerheart" which is another take on Peter Pan that I've started, but haven't gotten far yet because with Kindle overload I'm spending most of my time looking through samples of everything  But I enjoy it so far.


----------



## Yollo (Nov 10, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I'll also mention that we own the entire _Unfortunate Events_ series, and they frequently caused me to laugh out loud, despite their being incredibly formulaic.


These were great, and I loved each and every one of them. Even The End, which most people hated because it didn't tie up any loose strings, but for me I saw that as the biggest Unfortunate Event of them all.


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Well obviously I've already said how I feel about Harry Potter, and as you are entitled to your opinion and I won't go more into detail about mine. But as for YA fantasy literature- obviously you have already mentioned some of the obvious including Dark Materials, LOTR, Narnia. I would also check out Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain, the Dark is Rising series, A Wrinkle in Time series, The Abhorson Trilogy, The Earthsea Cycle, The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, The Once and Future King (Including Sword of the Stone), The Enchanted Forest Chronicles, Stardust, Black Unicorn, Howl's Moving Castle, Alice in Wonderland, Peter and Wendy, Bruce Coville's Into the Land of Unicorns, etc, etc. I'm sure there are so many. I guess it depends on what exact age group you want.  If you aren't sticking to fantasy, there are also YA classics such as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, and Treasure Island.
> 
> I would also suggest The Neverending Story, The Last Unicorn, and Watership Down which are among my favorite novels.


Wow, LOTS of great recommendations. I love stuff with a time travel theme. I assume A Wrinkle in Time deals with that (or am I wrong) and I know the movie version of The Dark Is Rising has elements of it, but is it a major part of the books as well?


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

CS said:


> Wow, LOTS of great recommendations. I love stuff with a time travel theme. I assume A Wrinkle in Time deals with that (or am I wrong) and I know the movie version of The Dark Is Rising has elements of it, but is it a major part of the books as well?


There is time travel in both series. I'm not sure how the books compare the the movie because I haven't seen the movie version of the Dark is Rising. I do prefer the Wrinkle in Time quartet though


----------



## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

cindy86488 said:


> VA you said you've read better vampire novels, I'm new to the genre (I totally enjoyed the 'Twilight' books) do you have any suggestions? I love to get advice from other readers, I've found of my most favorite books this way.


If you like YA, L.J. Smith's Vampire Diaries are pretty good, as I recall. I don't think they're available on the Kindle, although I have heard that she is publishing a new one soon, so maybe someday. She also has several other fantasy series: Secret Circle (witches), Forbidden Game (demon), and Night World (all manner of supernatural creatures). Also a nice website with some short stories you can read for free.


----------



## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I liked Amelia Atwater-Rhodes's books better than Twilight. It was one of the first vampire books I read.









(Not yet on Kindle)


----------



## RovingSoul (Oct 27, 2008)

Vegas_Asian said:


> I liked Amelia Atwater-Rhodes's books better than Twilight. It was one of the first vampire books I read.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, Hawksong, SnakeCharm and FalconDance aren't vamp books (although they are excellent). She does have some though, and they are rather out of the ordinary. Vamps


Spoiler



can turn into tigers


 and this sort of thing.


----------



## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

CS said:


> Wow, LOTS of great recommendations. I love stuff with a time travel theme. I assume A Wrinkle in Time deals with that (or am I wrong) and I know the movie version of The Dark Is Rising has elements of it, but is it a major part of the books as well?


I love the time travel stuff too. I don't have much to say about the Harry Potter books as I have never read them. I have seen all the movies and they were entertaining, but never caused a desire to read the books... now that I am kindling, I may never read them unless the author folds and gives in!!


----------



## RovingSoul (Oct 27, 2008)

Angela said:


> I love the time travel stuff too. I don't have much to say about the Harry Potter books as I have never read them. I have seen all the movies and they were entertaining, but never caused a desire to read the books... now that I am kindling, I may never read them unless the author folds and gives in!!


She won't. But you really should read them, as they are infinetly better than the movies.


----------



## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

RovingSoul said:


> She won't. But you really should read them, as they are infinetly better than the movies.


Then I would need to find someone to borrow from, cause I don't want to purchase them.


----------



## RovingSoul (Oct 27, 2008)

Angela said:


> Then I would need to find someone to borrow from, cause I don't want to purchase them.


Well, you could try a library.


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

The Harry Potter books are so so so much better than the movies. I actually haven't seen the movies beyond the third one.

Yet another example where the book is better than the movie which I find to be true 99% of the time.

L


----------



## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

RovingSoul said:


> Well, Hawksong, SnakeCharm and FalconDance aren't vamp books (although they are excellent). She does have some though, and they are rather out of the ordinary. Vamps
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Her first books like, In the Forest of the Night, Shattered Mirror, Demon in my View, and Midnight Predator. They are really short, but I had them originally about 5-6 years ago. My favorites are Shattered Mirror, and Demon in my View. Like you said they aren't Great, but I like them better than Twilight and it introduced me to another genre of reading I had not explore yet.


----------



## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Angela said:


> Then I would need to find someone to borrow from, cause I don't want to purchase them.


I'm sure they have them all at your local public library.


----------



## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Leslie said:


> The Harry Potter books are so so so much better than the movies. I actually haven't seen the movies beyond the third one.


Absolutely. I've lost track of how many times I've read the books. I love ferreting out all the clues and following up all the classical and mythological references. JKR is absolutely brilliant.

Have you read the schoolbooks? They're a lot of fun. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, and Quidditch Through the Ages. I've got Beedle the Bard on pre-order.



> Yet another example where the book is better than the movie which I find to be true 99% of the time.
> 
> L


So, true. Except LotR. Peter Jackson did a wonderful job.

In the case of the Potter books, I have to say they got the casting absolutely right. Unfortunately Steve Kloves gave Hermione all Ron's best lines when Rupert could have delivered them so much better than Emma. Then Alphonso Cuaron came along and added in shrunken heads. (shudder)


----------



## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

gertiekindle said:


> So, true. Except LotR. Peter Jackson did a wonderful job.


That he did. I was very skeptical at first. Thought there was no way the movie could do the story justice. I still would have like to have seen more, but a 5 or 6 hour movie might have been a bit tough to sit through!!


----------



## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Angela said:


> That he did. I was very skeptical at first. Thought there was no way the movie could do the story justice. I still would have like to have seen more, but a 5 or 6 hour movie might have been a bit tough to sit through!!


I think it worked because PJ removed whole sections such as Tom Bombadil to preserve the integrity of what he kept.


----------



## Selcien (Oct 31, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Vampires are undead creatures of hell, not romantic heroes. They are incapable of love. Love is antithetical to their entire nature. I will never willingly read another novel in which vampires are treated as loving, caring heroes. Ann Rice already destroyed the mythos. I won't encourage its further denigration.


I'm sorry but this post of yours is rubbish. Okay, maybe I'm taking it the wrong way, which I do do from time to time, but it seems to me that you have an overly strict interpretation of vampires, and that you expect everyone else in the world to adhere to your interpretation, like you're talking about fact rather than fiction.

Anne Rice most certainly did not destroy the mythos, she merely interpreted it in a way that suited her, which is the very same thing that every single other person who has ever written a vampire story has done, the only true difference between the interpretations is whether you like them or not.

Further more, adding "I won't encourage its further denigration" after having already accused Anne Rice of having destroyed the mythos strikes me as being nothing more than elitist nonsense, as if you're going to ignore an interpretation merely because you're "too good" for it. Of course, if you were to take what you said literally, which I'm all too good at (i.e. I have a habit of taking things literally), it would be quite impossible for the mythos to be denigrated if it had already been destroyed, so if it's being denigrated then it very clearly wasn't destroyed, but then if it wasn't destroyed then it's not being denigrated, in fact, it's only you that's having the problem, the mythos itself is perfectly fine.

It's cool that you don't like certain interpretations, I personally hate the whole "no reflection" bs (I've never understood just how it was supposed to be possible for a creature that clearly exists in a physical state to not cast a reflection like everything else that has a physical form), but to act as if some interpretations are somehow superior, truer, than other interpretations is naive, and suggests that you think fiction should be limited, depending on how you feel about the subject matter, when in fact, the greatest thing about fiction/imagination is that anything can be anything at all.


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

Being a 52 YO male, I absolutely hated *Twilight*. I tried to read it because of the up coming movie and well it has vampires in it. I gave it to the cook/waitress at my local Huddle House. She and her daughter love it.

I did read Stephenie Meyer's "_*The Host*_" I liked it. It's no prize winning piece of literature but it was a fun read for me. I thought it was 20 times better than *Twilight*


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Selcien said:


> I'm sorry but this post of yours is rubbish. Okay, maybe I'm taking it the wrong way, which I do do from time to time, but it seems to me that you have an overly strict interpretation of vampires, and that you expect everyone else in the world to adhere to your interpretation, like you're talking about fact rather than fiction.
> 
> Anne Rice most certainly did not destroy the mythos, she merely interpreted it in a way that suited her, which is the very same thing that every single other person who has ever written a vampire story has done, the only true difference between the interpretations is whether you like them or not.
> 
> ...


I don't know if I'd call Jim's post "rubbish," but it does seem extremely silly for him (IMO) to talk about FICTIONAL creatures being "denigrated" somehow or "incapable" of a certain character trait. While I do understand that there are some accepted conventions about vampires, there's no reason authors should feel bound to follow or honor those conventions. If they have their own ideas that go against traditional vampire folklore, so what? Vampires have remained popular and relevant throughout the ages mainly because they have evolved over time. Look at how different Dracula is from, say, The Lost Boys or Fright Night. But they're all acceptable interpretations. Twilight is too, and I'd imagine Ann Rice's version is fine as well (I haven't read any of her books). You may not agree with certain interpretations of the vampire, but there's no such thing as "right" or wrong" in fiction.


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

Selcien said:


> I'm sorry but this post of yours is rubbish. Okay, maybe I'm taking it the wrong way, which I do do from time to time, but it seems to me that you have an overly strict interpretation of vampires, and that you expect everyone else in the world to adhere to your interpretation, like you're talking about fact rather than fiction.
> 
> Anne Rice most certainly did not destroy the mythos, she merely interpreted it in a way that suited her, which is the very same thing that every single other person who has ever written a vampire story has done, the only true difference between the interpretations is whether you like them or not.
> 
> ...


You are correct--something that has been "destroyed" cannot suffer further denigration. It would have been more appropriate for me to say that Rice "trashed" the mythos, which has subsequently denigrated even further.

And calling me an elitist is like calling mud dirty.


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> You are correct--something that has been "destroyed" cannot suffer further denigration. It would have been more appropriate for me to say that Rice "trashed" the mythos, which has subsequently denigrated even further.
> 
> And calling me an elitist is like calling mud dirty.


Don't you think it's a bit silly to be elitist about vampires?


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

Sheesh! Come on, folks. I was merely expressing (strenuously) my opinion on vampire novels. OF COURSE readers and authors can interpret anything they want any _way_ they want. Particularly when dealing with fiction. I was expressing _my_ interpretation of the vampire as a literary creature and _my_ displeasure with authors who try to take monstrous creatures that have haunted my nightmares since childhood into tragic/romantic/heroic/cuddly figures. *YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!*

Ok?


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Sheesh! Come on, folks. I was merely expressing (strenuously) my opinion on vampire novels. OF COURSE readers and authors can interpret anything they want any _way_ they want. Particularly when dealing with fiction. I was expressing _my_ interpretation of the vampire as a literary creature and _my_ displeasure with authors who try to take monstrous creatures that have haunted my nightmares since childhood into tragic/romantic/heroic/cuddly figures. *YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!*
> 
> Ok?


Ok. 

So I'm guessing you don't like Buffy The Vampire Slayer either?


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

CS said:


> Don't you think it's a bit silly to be elitist about vampires?


Hell, I'm elitist about toilet paper. 



Spoiler



Charmin Rules!


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Selcien said:


> I'm sorry but this post of yours is rubbish. Okay, maybe I'm taking it the wrong way, which I do do from time to time, but it seems to me that you have an overly strict interpretation of vampires, and that you expect everyone else in the world to adhere to your interpretation, like you're talking about fact rather than fiction.
> 
> Anne Rice most certainly did not destroy the mythos, she merely interpreted it in a way that suited her, which is the very same thing that every single other person who has ever written a vampire story has done, the only true difference between the interpretations is whether you like them or not.
> 
> ...


I love how riled everyone got about us stating our opinions- mine about Harry Potter and Jim's about vampires. Everyone is entitled to disagree, and I actively encourage all of you to disagree. 

But I guess for some reason I can see the ridiculousness of vampires being creatures that feel great love. Its like saying fluffy bunnies are creatures of evil.

Which I suppose has been done. Bunnicula anyone? Lol.

This whole Twilight thing is getting pretty disturbing though. http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Twilight-Fans-Turn-Into-A-Violent-Mob-10828.html


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> But I guess for some reason I can see the ridiculousness of vampires being creatures that feel great love. Its like saying fluffy bunnies are creatures of evil.


----------



## ScottBooks (Oct 28, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Which I suppose has been done. Bunnicula anyone? Lol.


Bunnicula?? Have you never seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? The terrifying and all powerful Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog?

I spit in Bunnicula's general direction


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> I love how riled everyone got about us stating our opinions- mine about Harry Potter and Jim's about vampires. Everyone is entitled to disagree, and I actively encourage all of you to disagree.
> 
> But I guess for some reason I can see the ridiculousness of vampires being creatures that feel great love. Its like saying fluffy bunnies are creatures of evil.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... Riled? Me? No, not quite.

I simply disagreed and stated my own opinion.

No anger here, and not sure why you think there was.


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

ScottBooks said:


> Bunnicula?? Have you never seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? The terrifying and all powerful Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog?
> 
> I spit in Bunnicula's general direction


Too slow.


----------



## ScottBooks (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Too slow.


I didn't know how to spell Caerbannog


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks for lightening this up Bacardi Jim...As I'm drinking a bacardi and diet coke as I type!


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> Thanks for lightening this up Bacardi Jim...As I'm drinking a bacardi and diet coke as I type!


I'm a Bacardi & Pepsi man myself.

And the thanks goes to Snapcat... for setting me up so well.


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

I am usually a coca cola girl in a pepsi cola town!


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

I like Dr Pepper, please don't hate me.

oo another kindle phrase popped into my head.


----------



## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Coke makes me violently ill and I don't read vampire books (although I loved Barnabas Collins).  Are we having fun, yet?   

Vampyre, I'm a Pepper, too.


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

When a restaurant doesn't have coke...I get water!


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> When a restaurant doesn't have coke...I get water!


If the restaurant doesn't have chardonnay, I go somewhere else! LOL

L


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

So i guess you are a McD's kinda person he?


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

Leslie said:


> If the restaurant doesn't have chardonnay, I go somewhere else! LOL
> 
> L


I'll drink to that!


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

CS said:


> Hmmm... Riled? Me? No, not quite.
> 
> I simply disagreed and stated my own opinion.
> 
> No anger here, and not sure why you think there was.


I wasn't targeting this specifically at you, I didn't say you were angry. I was just pointing out that in general, people get passionate defending their favorite books I guess.


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


>


Bwahaha I forgot about Monty Python!


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I'm a Bacardi & Pepsi man myself.
> 
> And the thanks goes to Snapcat... for setting me up so well.


Pepsi. Yuck. Its Coca-cola all the way. Don't you get me riled up! LOL


----------



## Snapcat (Nov 3, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> When a restaurant doesn't have coke...I get water!


Me too! Or iced tea.


----------



## Cowgirl (Nov 1, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> Pepsi. Yuck. Its Coca-cola all the way. Don't you get me riled up! LOL


You're my kinda of girl


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Cowgirl said:


> You're my kinda of girl


I don't drink much soda but when I do, it's Coke.

L


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

In Waco, Texas, home of Dr. Pepper, them is fightin’ words.


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Jeff said:


> In Waco, Texas, home of Dr. Pepper, them is fightin' words.


Heck, I live in Maine, Moxie country! LOL...

L


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

We actually have a Dr. Pepper museum in Waco. As a displaced Yankee – never mind – you get it.


----------



## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Jeff said:


> We actually have a Dr. Pepper museum in Waco. As a displaced Yankee - never mind - you get it.


I do.

L


----------



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Snapcat said:


> I wasn't targeting this specifically at you, I didn't say you were angry. I was just pointing out that in general, people get passionate defending their favorite books I guess.


No worries. But since I'm one of the people who disagreed with you, I figured I'd at least explain my side of it.


----------



## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I am going to start a COke or Pepsi poll in Not Quite Kindle


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Don't forget Dr. Pepper - its misunderstood.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Vegas_Asian said:


> I am going to start a COke or Pepsi poll in Not Quite Kindle


Pepsi will lose, badly.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Don't forget Dr. Pepper - its misunderstood.


I'm a Pepper!


----------



## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

My man! 

You're always welcome in Waco at the Doctor Pepper Museum and Hall of Fame.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Anybody else notice that Selcien has been working on a reply for some six hours now?  I guess the topic has been so derailed that even Lewis and Clark couldn't find it again.


----------



## Selcien (Oct 31, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Sheesh! Come on, folks. I was merely expressing (strenuously) my opinion on vampire novels. OF COURSE readers and authors can interpret anything they want any _way_ they want. Particularly when dealing with fiction. I was expressing _my_ interpretation of the vampire as a literary creature and _my_ displeasure with authors who try to take monstrous creatures that have haunted my nightmares since childhood into tragic/romantic/heroic/cuddly figures. *YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!*
> 
> Ok?


You were being melodramatic.

As for what you said here, it's quite clear that we're not going to see things eye to eye 'cause while you say that authors can interpret anything the way that they want you still hold it against them (are displeased) if they don't interpret things the way that you want them to. You're intolerant as you cannot bear to see vampires in any other form than what your own rigid interpretation dictates that they should be.

It's one thing to have an opinion, quite another to be so firmly locked into that opinion that you cannot accept anything that strays from it. It's like you're not even the least bit curious as to see what can be done with vampires and insist on getting the same old vampires over and over, etc...

Further more, you know the true nature of a vampire, no matter what any author does with them the most that they'll ever be able to do is to subdue their true nature. No matter how tragic/romantic/heroic/cuddly a vampire is, there is always that monster lurking inside of them, waiting for the moment when they can break free.

Seriously. Take a close look at Louis. Despite his pathetic humanity (i.e. being a whiny baby) he was still a monster. I mean,


Spoiler



he forever damned Claudia to a child's body and he betrayed his own creator


, hardly something that would demonstrate his "soulful" qualities. People can be messed up in the brain, don't see any reason why a vampire couldn't be either, and Louis was most definitely a vampire who was messed up in the head.


Spoiler



My personal take on it is that Lestat botched things up when he made Louis, he was simply an unsuitable host


.



CS said:


> So I'm guessing you don't like Buffy The Vampire Slayer either?


Actually, there were quite a few interesting things that were glossed over in the show, one must simply think about the circumstances, rather than accepting things exactly as shown.

For example, the romance between


Spoiler



Buffy and Angel


, if you were really to think about that, you would be able to see just how gross it is. Vampires are undead, cold, reanimated corpses. Just imagine the coldness of death she had to have felt when she touched him, and later on when she touched


Spoiler



Spike


.

Also, there's the matter of


Spoiler



Angelus


. If you've seen some really violent films, or clips on youtube (some of the Japanese films do not hold back with the explicit violence), than simply applying that kind of violence to him will allow you to see the monster that he really is, the monster that could never have been shown because of the ratings. Even the most incompetent of the vampires in the show were monsters, it's just that most of the violence was glossed over.



Bacardi Jim said:


> Anybody else notice that Selcien has been working on a reply for some six hours now? I guess the topic has been so derailed that even Lewis and Clark couldn't find it again.


I neglected to hit "notify".

Oh, and Mountain Dew for me, although I did have a bit of variety this past week as I had bought a case (24 cans) of Dr. Pepper.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

*shakes head*
*gives up*


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm not sure riled=angry, but I've enjoyed this debate on the merits of current vampire literature!  I've been fascinated ever since my brother took a course on Frankenstein and Dracula on his way to an English major in college.

Betsy


----------



## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Dr. Pepper all the way...

typical conversation heard in the south...

"Woud you like a coke?"

"Sure, what cha got?"

"Dr. Pepper, RC, Root Beer"

'I'll take a Dr. Pepper"


----------



## ScottBooks (Oct 28, 2008)

I spent my elementary years in Atlanta where everything is indeed referred to as coke. Orange soda, Pepsi, Tab; everything is called Coke. (I do know why this is).


----------



## Selcien (Oct 31, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> *shakes head*
> *gives up*


How about this then. I've just read some user reviews on amazon for _Fevre Dream_, which is a book that you recommended (I'll be checking it out when I can get around to it), and I have to say that I'm quite thoroughly confused as to your stance on vampires. The main vampire seems to be anything but the kind of vampire you seem to like, I mean, he


Spoiler



wants his species to coexist with humans


.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Selcien said:


> How about this then. I've just read some user reviews on amazon for _Fevre Dream_, which is a book that you recommended (I'll be checking it out when I can get around to it), and I have to say that I'm quite thoroughly confused as to your stance on vampires. The main vampire seems to be anything but the kind of vampire you seem to like, I mean, he
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I knew this would come back to bite me in the butt. 

And thanks for ruining the premise of the book for everyone else.

Yes, it's my second favorite vampire novel. Yes, it challenges and even flaunts my ideal of what a vampire _is_.

Yes, I enjoy it as a rollicking good yarn.



Spoiler



And while a vampire is one of the heroes of the book, he isn't portrayed as lovable, loving, capable of any such warm human emotions or soft/fuzzy/cuddly. He is fighting for the survival of his race, knowing that in the new technological age, the survival of his race lies in a co-existence of Man and Vampire. Which means that vampires must stop hunting humans. Humans have the technology to wipe out vampires, and vampires have a bloodlust and power that would wipe out their cattle and leave themselves to starve to death.

One vampire invents an elixir which could free his race from their monstrous thirst, and save both races.



This is the tenuous balance on which the tale stands.

It's a hell of a good book and a great action/adventure/horror novel. Martin has gone on to receive worldwide acclaim for his _Song of Ice and Fire_ series. I stand by my endorsement.

And, if you read the book, I'm sure you'll come back and tell me that I'm no hypocrite.


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

Selcien said:


> You were being melodramatic.
> 
> As for what you said here, it's quite clear that we're not going to see things eye to eye 'cause while you say that authors can interpret anything the way that they want you still hold it against them (are displeased) if they don't interpret things the way that you want them to. You're intolerant as you cannot bear to see vampires in any other form than what your own rigid interpretation dictates that they should be.
> 
> ...


So you demand a fight?  Here it is:

I have no problem with the blending of literary genres. My love of Fletcher Knebel and L. Sprague deCamp will prove that. Ditto F. Paul Wilson. Ditto Michael Swanwick.

I DO have a problem with authors who take a theme I love and by which I am fascinated and twist that theme into something that is _exactly the opposite of what it was originally intended to be and has no relevance to the original idea_. I love hard science fiction. And I love fantasy novels. I like the occasional horror novel. But I'd automatically reject any book wherein unicorns being ridden by vegetarian zombies suddenly burst out of the starship's warp engine tubes and hijack it to the planet Thomas Jefferson. Because such an anomaly can't possibly happen (within the bounds of readability) and _makes no sense_ within the boundaries of any of the various standards and conventions upon which they are based.

Or, to put it simply, I don't mind a beloved literary convention being turned on its ear. I don't really like to see it eviscerated, skinned, castrated and turned inside-out.

I guess that makes me a close-minded bigot. Guilty as charged. And I will go to my grave despising both Rice and Whedon.

Ready to let it drop?


----------



## delshin (Nov 1, 2008)

Well that was a fun thread to read


----------



## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

delshin said:


> Well that was a fun thread to read


Delshin, I don't think I have seen you here before... welcome!


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

delshin said:


> Well that was a fun thread to read


LOL! Surprisingly, this thread about what to me is essentially a teen novel (pardon me if I'm wrong) has turned into the most rough and tumble, down and dirty literary discussion on Kindleboards! It's like one of those serial cliff hangers from the silent movie era. (Was "serial cliff hanger" redundant?)

Welcome, Delshin! Did you ever get your Whispernet to work properly? You were having problems, weren't you?

Betsy


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> LOL! Surprisingly, this thread about what to me is essentially a teen novel (pardon me if I'm wrong) has turned into the most rough and tumble, down and dirty literary discussion on Kindleboards! It's like one of those serial cliff hangers from the silent movie era. (Was "serial cliff hanger" redundant?)
> 
> Betsy


I agree. . . .and I was thinking. . . .maybe you boys want to take it outside. . . .

For the record, I have no opinions on the merits of vampire novels one way or the other. But I REALLY like David Boreanaz in Bones. (I actually think the TV series is more enjoyable than Kathy Reich's books -- I hope that's not too traitorous to say!)

Ann


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann Von Hagel said:


> I agree. . . .and I was thinking. . . .maybe you boys want to take it outside. . . .
> 
> For the record, I have no opinions on the merits of vampire novels one way or the other. But I REALLY like David Boreanaz in Bones. (I actually think the TV series is more enjoyable than Kathy Reich's books -- I hope that's not too traitorous to say!)
> 
> Ann


Oh, baby, he was soooo hot in that series. I actually bought the series on iTunes after stumbling on an episode in reruns somewhere. I had to watch the WHOLE backstory.... I then played it on the TV in the sewing room as I worked on some quilts. Lucky I didn't cut my hand off with the cutter!

Betsy


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Oh, baby, he was soooo hot in that series. I actually bought the series on iTunes after stumbling on an episode in reruns somewhere. I had to watch the WHOLE backstory.... I then played it on the TV in the sewing room as I worked on some quilts. Lucky I didn't cut my hand off with the cutter!
> 
> Betsy


Are you talking about his roll in Buffy? Or on Bones? Because Bones is still on. Wednesdays at 8 on Fox.

Ann


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann Von Hagel said:


> Are you talking about his roll in Buffy? Or on Bones? Because Bones is still on. Wednesdays at 8 on Fox.
> 
> Ann


Sorry, I was thinking of Buffy because of the vampire/Twilight thing, I do watch Bones, too. And then there was the spinoff from Buffy too...

Betsy


----------



## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

I did _try_ to joke around and lighten things up. Sorry, folks.  I let the personal insults push my buttons. I'll just put Selcien on "Ignore" and no more melodrama.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I did _try_ to joke around and lighten things up. Sorry, folks.  I let the personal insults push my buttons. I'll just put Selcien on "Ignore" and no more melodrama.


To all, no innocent bystanders were harmed...you wouldn't be here if you weren't a book lover, and book lovers have strong feelings.

I probably should have stepped in and issued a couple of yellow cards (allusion to soccer warnings) for folks to avoid anything smacking of a personal attack, but the rest was all good debate.

Let's move on!

Betsy


----------



## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Maybe we need a "yellow card" graphic that we mod's can throw down in the midst of a dust-up.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Harvey said:


> Maybe we need a "yellow card" graphic that we mod's can throw down in the midst of a dust-up.


LOL! And then a Red Card!

Betsy


----------



## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)




----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Angela said:


>


Great, I think I'm going to adapt it to have a yellow card and then we can throw it occasionally! LOL!

I think I'm going to lock this topic. We can all take a deep breath and move on. Twilight lovers, start a new topic and have at it! And everyone, hearty and spirited debate is welcomed, as long as we leave out sniping directly at each other. Not everybody has Teninx's tin foil cap!


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy


----------

