# KDP Pre-Orders: What we know so far



## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

After doing a few pre-orders, I have discovered a thing or about the new system. I thought it would be nice if we started a thread to collect some common wisdom. 

So, here is what I have learned so far, either from trying first hand, or from KDP responses to my questions:

1. You may set up a pre-order as much as 90 days before the release date.

2. As long as you submit more than 10 days ahead, you are allowed to upload a draft. You can change everything about the draft, as many times as you want, up until 10 days before the release date, at which point you are required to upload a final version. If you change anything after that, you are *banned from pre-orders for 1 year.* A few days before release, KDP locks the title, so you can't change anything, even if you wanted to. As soon as it goes live, you are free to make as many changes as you want, but the people who pre-ordered will have the file as it was submitted.

3. You can move the date of the release earlier as many times as you want, (*but not less than 4 days from submission*). You cannot move it later without facing the 1 year ban.

4. The pre-orders affect your rank as they trickle in, not all at once on release day. (Although that is when you get paid for them.)

5. Your book can chart before it is released, but your time as a "new release" doesn't start ticking until after the actual release date.

6. If the book is enrolled in Select, the 90 days starts on the release date.

7. KDP pulls estimated page numbers from the draft, so if you upload something incomplete, your book details may not match up with the finished product. *(Some people in the replies are saying that this is no longer true!)*

Hope this helps! Does anyone else have anything to add that they have picked up from the pre-order process?



EllisaBarr said:


> Here are a few more things -
> 
> After you upload the final version, you are locked out of making any changes to the book before launch, including description, price, keywords, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks, EllisaBarr!



judygoodwin said:


> 1. No reviews may be posted until the publication date and beyond.
> 
> 2. Your book will show up in the "Coming Soon" for your category. (which is nice)
> 
> 3. If your book is a Short Read, it won't be able to rank in that category until publication date and beyond, as no page numbers will show until then.


Thanks, Judy!

It also looks like the Createspace paperback will link up with the ebook version before the release date of the ebook. It can even be sold before the ebook release. *Reviews will show up on the Kindle version if someone reviews the paperback before the ebook launch*. (EllisaBarr again!)


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## Jerri Kay Lincoln (Jun 18, 2011)

Thank you for this!  You answered many questions that I had.


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

Here are a few more things -

After you upload the final version, you are locked out of making any changes to the book before launch, including description, price, keywords, etc.

ETA: Other people say they weren't locked out like I was, so there's some inconsistency in this right now.

The book will go live just after midnight (or close enough) in the early morning hours of your launch date.

You will be able to make changes to your book almost as soon as it goes live.

The pre-order sales will show up on your KDP "Units Ordered" graph as a sales spike on the day before your launch date.  Mine appeared the night before.

The Also-bought feature is activated during the pre-sale period in the same way it's activated during a normal launch - It will show up as Also-Viewed until a certain period of time and a certain number of sales have been achieved.

There's no "Look Inside" during the pre-sale period.  Some people have mentioned adding their book excerpt to their author info on Author Central.  Those with a shorter excerpt can just include it in the book description.

Without the "Look Inside" graphic, your book's thumbnail looks bigger in the Also-bought lists.  Just interesting, not important  


That's all I can think of!

*Edited to add:

You can launch your paperback through Createspace before your ebook pre-order goes live.  After the normal waiting period, the 2 versions will become associated with each other on the same listing page, with the paperback book for sale, and the digital book still on pre-order.  I've seen reviews on pre-orders, and it's because the paperback is available for sale and people are reviewing the paperback.  Nice little work around!


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

What about CreateSpace?

Can we put print books up during the pre-order period and get them linked and everything in advance?


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## MajesticMonkey (Sep 3, 2013)

Tasha Black said:


> 3. You can move the date of the release up as many times as you want, but you cannot move it back without facing the 1 year ban.


Thanks for your post.

Let me make sure I understand this correctly, I assume "back" is further out in to the future? So if you planned an October 19 release, make it a October 28 release. Also you are saying you can move the release day date from October 19 to October 10? As long as it's 10 days out from it's release day.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Domino Finn said:


> What about CreateSpace?
> 
> Can we put print books up during the pre-order period and get them linked and everything in advance?


CreateSpace restricts you to publication dates in the past or accepting the date that it goes live as the publication date.


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## Mystery Maven (Sep 17, 2014)

Thank you for this thread! It saved me a lot of searching and sifting. 

Mercia, can you link the live paperback to the kindle pre-order page though? And do your days as a new release start when the paperback goes live? Or does the kindle book get a separate new release period?


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I believe Amazon has dropped the page estimates from preorders as people were uploading 12-page files early, then 300 page files later, and this was causing a lot of drama.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

MajesticMonkey said:


> Thanks for your post.
> 
> Let me make sure I understand this correctly, I assume "back" is further out in to the future? So if you planned an October 19 release, make it a October 28 release. Also you are saying you can move the release day date from October 19 to October 10? As long as it's 10 days out from it's release day.


Yes. Sorry that wasn't very clear! 

If you put in a launch date of 10/19, you cannot move it to ANY date after that without getting banned. (For some, it might be worth taking the one year ban to avoid having an inferior product go out.)

You can move it to ANY date before 10/19, regardless of how far that date it from today. You could move it from 10/19 until tomorrow if you want. The only restriction is that if your release date is less than 10 days away, you MUST upload a final version at that time.

I changed the date on my last pre-order a few days before it was scheduled, to better line up with a promo I wanted to run.

Hope that is more clear!


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

TexasGirl said:


> I believe Amazon has dropped the page estimates from preorders as people were uploading 12-page files early, then 300 page files later, and this was causing a lot of drama.


That would be nice. On my first pre-order, I uploaded the first few chapters as a draft, and it said my book was like 20 pages long!

The one I have coming up in October still has a length in the description, but maybe the change is only for new pre-orders going forward.

Thanks!


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Other things I didn't see mentioned:  

1. No reviews may be posted until the publication date and beyond. 

2.  Your book will show up in the "Coming Soon" for your category. (which is nice)  

3.  If your book is a Short Read, it won't be able to rank in that category until publication date and beyond, as no page numbers will show until then.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

judygoodwin said:


> 3. If your book is a Short Read, it won't be able to rank in that category until publication date and beyond, as no page numbers will show until then.


My last one did rank in short reads before release, but this holds true with what TexasGirl said about no longer including page numbers.


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## Randall Boleyn (Mar 8, 2012)

> What about CreateSpace?
> 
> Can we put print books up during the pre-order period and get them linked and everything in advance?


I called CreateSpace two weeks ago specifically about this question. The agent at CS repeated over and over to my myriad of questions about the KDP verses CS publishing date, that "CreateSpace is a totally different product and has no relationship with KDP. Once a title is published on CreateSpace, within 5 days, Createspace would place the POD paperback listing and information on any Amazon sales page listing that same title."
So, I cannot confirm how this will work, but I have a pre-order listing of *Wave Links* set to publish on OCT 21. I intend to send out ARCs for reviews next week and publish the Createspace edition on Oct 5. I am in hopes the the paperback listing is added on my KDP pre-order sales page and reviews can be posted. I hope it doesn't cost me a year in the KDP Pre-order dog house. I highly encourage anyone to call CreateSpace ( their customer service is excellent and very assessable) and pose this question and post your interpretation on this dilemma.


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

My paperback with Createspace went live before my ebook version.  The books were even linked on Amazon, so people could (and did) buy the paperback before my Amazon pre-order launch date.  I wish I'd looked more closely, but I suspect I could have gotten reviews before my launch if people reviewed the paperback.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Tasha Black said:


> My last one did rank in short reads before release, but this holds true with what TexasGirl said about no longer including page numbers.


Mine ranked in short reads before release, and regularly dips back in.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

So if you upload a paperback version via CreateSpace, it goes live immediately, but links to the pre-order page for the ebook. Is this correct? Also, if you've enrolled your book in the matchbox program, can people who buy the paperback version also pre-order the ebook at the matchbook price? Because if they did, that would make an awesome incentive for fans to buy the print book while the ebook is still in pre-order.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

atmaweapon said:


> So if you upload a paperback version via CreateSpace, it goes live immediately, but links to the pre-order page for the ebook. Is this correct? Also, if you've enrolled your book in the matchbox program, can people who buy the paperback version also pre-order the ebook at the matchbook price? Because if they did, that would make an awesome incentive for fans to buy the print book while the ebook is still in pre-order.


Interesting question about Matchbook. I would hope that was the case, but I really don't know. I tend to do the paperbacks as kind of an afterthought. Never actually had one ready before an ebook launched! 
Curious to see if someone has any experience with this.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Createspace books usually take a few days before they show up on Amazon. I've never had enough print sales for it to be a factor of any kind. I typically schedule to have it up sometime the same week as the eBook, if there is a print version.


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

atmaweapon said:


> So if you upload a paperback version via CreateSpace, it goes live immediately, but links to the pre-order page for the ebook. Is this correct? Also, if you've enrolled your book in the matchbox program, can people who buy the paperback version also pre-order the ebook at the matchbook price? Because if they did, that would make an awesome incentive for fans to buy the print book while the ebook is still in pre-order.


It goes live immediately on Createspace but takes a few days before it goes up on Amazon. Then a few more days to link to the pre-order page. I was enrolled in the matchbook program, but I don't know if the two people that ordered the paperback pre-ordered the digital version. I wish I'd thought to try it myself!


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Just put up two preorders and no page count yet. I'll check them again in a few days, since that can take a while to populate.


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## Clare K. R. Miller (Apr 6, 2011)

Here's a question: If you list your preorder with a release date and then upload your final version at the ten-day mark, can you still push the release date forward, so you don't have to wait the full ten days between having your book ready and having it for sale?

For example, say I set up a pre-order today that will go live on October 10. On October 1, I upload the final version. Can I then change the release date to October 5?

I'm guessing the answer is no, but it would be nice.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Clare K. R. Miller said:


> Here's a question: If you list your preorder with a release date and then upload your final version at the ten-day mark, can you still push the release date forward, so you don't have to wait the full ten days between having your book ready and having it for sale?
> 
> For example, say I set up a pre-order today that will go live on October 10. On October 1, I upload the final version. Can I then change the release date to October 5?
> 
> I'm guessing the answer is no, but it would be nice.


I agree, why wait ten days for it to go live if the author confirms it's ready?


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

If you are an indie with an Amazon rep, you can get them to enable the reviews section on pre-orders (or at least, several people have had this work for them. I don't know that *every* Amazon rep can or will do this). The default though is no reviews till the book goes live.


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you so much for this thread--you answered two of my questions, that is:
* That the "New Release" clock doesn't start ticking until the actual release date (whew); and
* That the pre-release sales are "counted" as far as sales numbers on the day the sale is made, not accumulated and added to the release day sales (although that's when the money is credited). Sigh.

I would have preferred the pre-release sales to be accumulated and thrown all at one on the actual release day. That would have been sweet (at least for me) because my pre-release sales have trickled in at a rate of about 1 per day which is yawn-inspiring. ha, ha

Anyway, thanks again for this thread. I'm learning a lot by reading it.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

TexasGirl said:


> I believe Amazon has dropped the page estimates from preorders as people were uploading 12-page files early, then 300 page files later, and this was causing a lot of drama.


They haven't. I uploaded a draft. It estimates it as a "short read" and it is automatically putting that book into the "short reads" subcategories in the genre listings.

From my book:

Print Length: 80 pages

Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Horror
Books > Romance > Multicultural
Books > Romance > Paranormal
Books > Teen & Young Adult
Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > Two hours or more (65-100 pages) > Romance
Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > Two hours or more (65-100 pages) > Teen & Young Adult
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Horror
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Holidays
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Multicultural & Interracial
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Paranormal > Ghosts
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Teen & Young Adult

My keywords and categories are a mess right now.


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

Another thing that I hadn't realized was that the pre-order sales will not populate on our dashboards. I knew there was a separate pre-orders section, but I still thought the orders would show since the pre-order book titles are listed there, too.


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

Clare K. R. Miller said:


> Here's a question: If you list your preorder with a release date and then upload your final version at the ten-day mark, can you still push the release date forward, so you don't have to wait the full ten days between having your book ready and having it for sale?
> 
> For example, say I set up a pre-order today that will go live on October 10. On October 1, I upload the final version. Can I then change the release date to October 5?
> 
> I'm guessing the answer is no, but it would be nice.


You guessed right. I uploaded my final manuscript with 10 days to go, and my book stayed in Publishing status for the following 10 days. I was completely locked out and couldn't change anything about it during that time, including my launch date.


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## Clare K. R. Miller (Apr 6, 2011)

EllisaBarr said:


> You guessed right. I uploaded my final manuscript with 10 days to go, and my book stayed in Publishing status for the following 10 days. I was completely locked out and couldn't change anything about it during that time, including my launch date.


That's interesting. I wonder if they've changed that or if you were just unlucky. When I had a book on preorder, I was able to go in and upload a new version (just a tiny change) during the 10-day wait. I just didn't look to see whether it was possible to change the publication date.


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

How often can you change the cover image? I really want to do a contest of "pick my cover" and do it concurrent with taking preorders.


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## EllisaBarr (Apr 22, 2014)

I found an example tonight of an indie pre-order with a review on it already. Her paperback is for sale, so it looks like it's possible to get reviews on your pre-order once your paperback is linked. Kind of neat. 

http://www.amazon.com/Spring-Sentiment-Prejudice-Variation-Serendipity-ebook/dp/B00N97628K/ (it only has 2 more hours of pre-order though)


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Pre-order release time.

I was expecting my book (#Houston69) to go live at 12.01 a.m. West Coast time. I thought everything Amazon ran on West Coast time. Instead (I got the email), it went live at 12.01 a.m. East Coast time.

Good thing I was paying attention as I can now rapidly make a very few very small changes to the text which I haven't been able to do for the past 10 days.


Philip


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Domino Finn said:


> What about CreateSpace?
> 
> Can we put print books up during the pre-order period and get them linked and everything in advance?


Yes, we can. At least my Createspace version went live and linked up with the pre-order ebook version 2 days after I published it on Createspace.

Philip


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## Anna K (Jul 2, 2011)

Do you need a finished cover to set up a preorder?


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Very informative thread, thanks for compiling all of this information. Will not be ready for at least a few weeks to set up my first pre-order but this gives me a much better idea of what I will be doing.


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

Can someone tell me what the benefit of a pre-order is? I don't quite understand. Is it that it goes into the new releases page twice?


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

JeanneM said:


> Can someone tell me what the benefit of a pre-order is? I don't quite understand. Is it that it goes into the new releases page twice?


No.

The benefit of a pre-order, as I see it, is that you can set up/pre-order promotions to kick in as soon as the book goes live, rather than having to wait up to 30 days after the book's live date after which your book will go out of the first 30 days New Releases window.

Something like that.

Philip


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

Anna K said:


> Do you need a finished cover to set up a preorder?


I think you can change it up to the ten day deadline, like everything else. Although I have never tried. 
For me, the finished cover is the MOST important part of the pre-order, since it is the only part that readers can see. Well, that and a good blurb, I guess.


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks Philip.  I still don't see any benefit to it, but I'm glad some do and are enjoying it.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

Clare K. R. Miller said:


> Here's a question: If you list your preorder with a release date and then upload your final version at the ten-day mark, can you still push the release date forward, so you don't have to wait the full ten days between having your book ready and having it for sale?
> 
> For example, say I set up a pre-order today that will go live on October 10. On October 1, I upload the final version. Can I then change the release date to October 5?
> 
> I'm guessing the answer is no, but it would be nice.


*Here is the work-around for that!*
Instead of uploading your final draft on October first, just go into the dashboard with your final draft ready to go. *Change the date first!* Then it will tell you, in order to select that date, you must upload the final draft immediately. Upload it, and your good to go for October 5!

I did this on my last pre-order.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

JeanneM said:


> Can someone tell me what the benefit of a pre-order is? I don't quite understand. Is it that it goes into the new releases page twice?


The real benefit, for me, is being able to have live links to the next book to put in the back matter of the current one. 
This has been a great way for me to get the click through to the next book while they were still thinking about me. 
Without the pre-order links, I would have to rely on my mailing list as the best way to let fans know when the next installment was out. And I have 10 times more pre-orders than mailing list subscribers!


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## JeanneM (Mar 21, 2011)

That sounds great, Tasha.  I wish you much success. BTW, I love the way you've branded your covers. Really pretty.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

JeanneM said:


> That sounds great, Tasha. I wish you much success. BTW, I love the way you've branded your covers. Really pretty.


Thanks, Jeanne!
Credit for the covers goes to Yoly at Cormar Covers. She is great to work with. I have her doing my covers for the next series now!
Hoping to be far enough along to get a link to the fist book in the next series in the back of the last book of this one!


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

I have a question that some of you may be able to answer...

I want to put my next book up for preorder once I have the first book published. The problem is, I want to link to the next book in the first book. How do I get the link for the preorder of the second book if I haven't set up the preorder yet? I don't want to have to go back and update each title whenever I have a new book coming out.

I heard the guys on the Self-Publishing Podcast talk about a website that lets you create links and then change the location of them without having to change the link. I don't remember what it was called, though. Would I be able to do that with bit.ly?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I'm pretty sure you can do it with smarturl.it.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I had made a separate thread for this... but I guess it would be helpful here? It's data from my most recent preorder.

Hi everyone! I hope you are all doing well. I am having a phenomenal day (minus the nerve pain from bulging discs, but that's another issues entirely). I am here to share more data, this time on preorders.

Warning, I write in a very fan frenzied genre, Jane Austen Fan Fiction. So, YMMV warning and all of that, this is just data.

Over the summer I published two novellas in July. Both went far, far, far beyond my expectations.

The Trouble With Horses sold 86 units on peak day (7) after release on July 11.
A Winter Wrong, sold 72 and had 25 borrows on its peak day (also day 7) after release on July 28.

My newest release, A Spring Sentiment, had over 300 preorders since it went on preorder September 2. This put it in the top 30 of it's categories right before actual release day today. I ended up with 86 sales, 33 borrows. I did a similar promotion for all of the releases, leveraging my reader group The Cheap Ebook, and sharing my books before they published on JAFF forums. 

I think depending on your genre and fan base, preorders might NOT cannibalize your first day sales. I went with a 3 week preorder period as that made most sense to me, but next time around I might go with a longer one, maybe 4 weeks. It took me a week of sales to really start charting significantly, and it was the last week that I gathered about 150 of those preorders. I think having Also Boughts on Day One of book for sale helps (and FYI, if you publish the print version and call them up to get them linked, reviews on your print version will show up on the kindle version before it's out). 

Also important to note... I'm not losing SEVEN DAYS of good chart position... I'm going to get a full 30 days on the Hot New Release list.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

You can use sites to redirect links, but I see two potential problems with that.

1. Everyone who clicks the link before you actually have the pre-order up is just going to get sent to a coming soon page, I assume. Then they will never click that link again (unless they re-read the book). So you've lost out on the biggest benefit of pre-orders for me. By the time you have the real link, they will have forgotten all about you. Also, as a reader, I don't think I would like being taken to a link that says it is to a book, only to get a coming soon page. Maybe that's just me. I'd rather just write coming soon in the back matter. 

2. Many people read on devices that don't have a good browser. If you don't use a link to the Amazon store, you are taking a risk. 

I would just get used to updating your back matter. You are never going to be able to future-proof it. Even if you do a redirected link to the book 2, you're going to have to an update for book 3, and 4...

The only way to avoid it is to just have a link in the back matter that goes to a "books" page on your website. Then you could just keep that updated. Again, though, every click someone has to make to get to the next book is a chance to not click.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I think depending on your genre and fan base, preorders might NOT cannibalize your first day sales. I went with a 3 week preorder period as that made most sense to me, but next time around I might go with a longer one, maybe 4 weeks. It took me a week of sales to really start charting significantly, and it was the last week that I gathered about 150 of those preorders. I think having Also Boughts on Day One of book for sale helps (and FYI, if you publish the print version and call them up to get them linked, reviews on your print version will show up on the kindle version before it's out).
> 
> Also important to note... I'm not losing SEVEN DAYS of good chart position... I'm going to get a full 30 days on the Hot New Release list.


Thanks for sharing, Elizabeth!
Those are great numbers. Congrats. 

I think you are right on about the benefits. Pre-orders might cost you a few sales that don't count on day one, but from what I'm seeing, they make up for it on other ways!


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

Tasha Black said:


> You can use sites to redirect links, but I see two potential problems with that.
> 
> 1. Everyone who clicks the link before you actually have the pre-order up is just going to get sent to a coming soon page, I assume. Then they will never click that link again (unless they re-read the book). So you've lost out on the biggest benefit of pre-orders for me. By the time you have the real link, they will have forgotten all about you. Also, as a reader, I don't think I would like being taken to a link that says it is to a book, only to get a coming soon page. Maybe that's just me. I'd rather just write coming soon in the back matter.
> 
> ...


Well, the link would send readers to a page for my mailing list until I have the preorder set up for the second book (which should only be a couple days at most), so I think that while I might lose a sale, I may potentially gain mailing list readers. I don't know yet. And I don't plan on linking the the other books in the series for my first book, just the next book. You know what I mean? So the reader finishes book 1 and the next page is "Check out book 2" that will have a link to book 2. Once I'm on book 2 or 3, I will have an "Also by..." page in my book with links to previous books, but if they're reading book 2 or 3 in the series, chances are they've already read the first book.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

David Neth said:


> Well, the link would send readers to a page for my mailing list until I have the preorder set up for the second book (which should only be a couple days at most), so I think that while I might lose a sale, I may potentially gain mailing list readers. I don't know yet. And I don't plan on linking the the other books in the series for my first book, just the next book. You know what I mean? So the reader finishes book 1 and the next page is "Check out book 2" that will have a link to book 2. Once I'm on book 2 or 3, I will have an "Also by..." page in my book with links to previous books, but if they're reading book 2 or 3 in the series, chances are they've already read the first book.


Sounds like it would work to me. I remember the SPP guys talking about it, too. And now that Amazon accepts epub files, you could just have one version of all of your books.
You may want to try starting a new topic about it. Might get some useful tips from people who use that strategy.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

EllisaBarr said:


> You guessed right. I uploaded my final manuscript with 10 days to go, and my book stayed in Publishing status for the following 10 days. I was completely locked out and couldn't change anything about it during that time, including my launch date.





Clare K. R. Miller said:


> That's interesting. I wonder if they've changed that or if you were just unlucky. When I had a book on preorder, I was able to go in and upload a new version (just a tiny change) during the 10-day wait. I just didn't look to see whether it was possible to change the publication date.


I also was able to upload changes to both manuscript and cover in the 10-day period prior to release day. I submitted a final manuscript within the deadline, as Amazon says you must do. However, I was able to make changes AFTER that deadline and I was not locked out. (I made a change yesterday and my book is scheduled for release 9/29. It went into "In review by KDP" status, then "LIVE-Publishing Updates" status, and now it is "LIVE for Pre-Order", and it happened overnight.)
I know that some authors have been banned from pre-orders for one year due to not uploading a final document by the deadline, or by making changes after the deadline. Others have been locked out during the 10-day window. It seems like there is a lot of variability right now with this, so I would suggest making sure you are uploading your final version 10 days prior to release as Amazon suggests.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

They must be being super inconsistent on it, because my preorder has been up for six days and I don't have a page count. But I checked a couple others and they DID have it.

Yikes.



Moist_Tissue said:


> They haven't. I uploaded a draft. It estimates it as a "short read" and it is automatically putting that book into the "short reads" subcategories in the genre listings.
> 
> From my book:
> 
> ...


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## Clare K. R. Miller (Apr 6, 2011)

Tasha Black said:


> *Here is the work-around for that!*
> Instead of uploading your final draft on October first, just go into the dashboard with your final draft ready to go. *Change the date first!* Then it will tell you, in order to select that date, you must upload the final draft immediately. Upload it, and your good to go for October 5!
> 
> I did this on my last pre-order.


Awesome! That's great to know--thanks for testing it!


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## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

You can't schedule a pre-order less than four days before you want the book to drop. Learned this one the hard way.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

Sylvia R. Frost said:


> You can't schedule a pre-order less than four days before you want the book to drop. Learned this one the hard way.


Silvia,

Good luck on the launch in a few days! 
I'll be sure to check it out. Looks like we should have a lot of overlap in our audiences. Maybe we can find a way to make that work for us! 

Great book trailer! Did you do that yourself?

Also, on an unrelated note, when I was on your site, I noticed a little gear symbol next to your cover. Since I am apparently a little kid, I had to click on it to see what it did. It let me change the cover and background images. I had to refresh the page to bring your images back. I would imagine I am not supposed to be able to see that.


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## Sylvia R. Frost (Jan 8, 2014)

Tasha Black said:


> Silvia,
> 
> Good luck on the launch in a few days!
> I'll be sure to check it out. Looks like we should have a lot of overlap in our audiences. Maybe we can find a way to make that work for us!
> ...


 And I've read all your series so far. They're great. I'm glad you like my booktrailer. I did do it myself, as well as the cover design and website. I moonlight (daylight?) as a graphic designer.

RE: Gear. Welp, that's no good. Thanks for catching it.

Friend me on Facebook and we can talk some more!


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

Here is another bit I've learned after having a few pre-orders launch:

For me, at least, the numbers in the pre-order tab do not match up with what actually goes through on launch day. 
On my first few, my numbers were low, so I figured a discrepancy of a few books was not a big deal. Now that the numbers are higher, it is harder to ignore. 
It seem like the number of actual sales that go though is about 20% lower than the number of pre-orders reported on the dashboard. And I am not talking about cancellations. 
I emailed KDP and they said that they will show up on my dashboard as soon as they are successfully charged. Which makes sense, I guess. I just never suspected that so many people would be that difficult to charge. 
Anyone else noticing a difference between pre-order numbers and actual sales on launch day?


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## Jennifer Lewis (Dec 12, 2013)

Tasha Black said:


> Anyone else noticing a difference between pre-order numbers and actual sales on launch day?


Yes. My first just went live today and I was surprised by that. Interesting to know the reasoning.

And I have to thank others for the wisdom in this thread that allowed me to bring the launch forward by two weeks without any drama.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Mine was not quite that high. 823 preorders but only 778 sales dropped.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't think people are charged for books until it downloads. So, if someone preorders - but doesn't turn on their Kindle for five days - it won't show up until then.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

TexasGirl said:


> Mine was not quite that high. 823 preorders but only 778 sales dropped.


Still almost 10%. Nothing to sneeze at.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> I don't think people are charged for books until it downloads. So, if someone preorders - but doesn't turn on their Kindle for five days - it won't show up until then.


I thought about that, but so many of them get charged at exactly the same time when it goes live. And whenever I have preordered, I have just gotten an email saying I'd been charged. So I don't know if that is the case.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Tasha Black said:


> I thought about that, but so many of them get charged at exactly the same time when it goes live. And whenever I have preordered, I have just gotten an email saying I'd been charged. So I don't know if that is the case.


I receive an email, too, but mine always say I won't be charged until the book is delivered.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

No way is it when they open it on a Kindle. 778 people did not turn on their Kindles at midnight on the preorders. It would take days or weeks for that to happen (my Kindle has been lost for six weeks but my credit card is charged for all the books I've bought and not opened.)


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

I wonder of you have a tablet that is always on, or you have read on your cloud reader, then you might get the download without doing anything. but if you have only ever read on the e-ink kindle, you wouldn't until you actually turned it on.

Seems like a stretch. 

But then why are so many people not being charged?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

TexasGirl said:


> No way is it when they open it on a Kindle. 778 people did not turn on their Kindles at midnight on the preorders. It would take days or weeks for that to happen (my Kindle has been lost for six weeks but my credit card is charged for all the books I've bought and not opened.)


It doesn't have to be opened, just delivered. I have an Internet hub, so my stuff isn't always hooked up to wireless. I have to officially turn it on for my books to sync. Most people aren't like that. Im not saying you have to open it to be charged, just that it has to be delivered to be charged.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

I guess I don't understand what you're saying about delivered. For every book I've ever bought other than a preorder, delivery is instant. It is sent instantly. I am charged instantly. The only time that is not true is if it's a preorder, or if my credit card has expired. I cannot have bought it at all if I wasn't on some form of internet.


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## theaatkinson (Sep 22, 2010)

Wow. Such great info! Thanks everyone for sharing.

I have sent my preorder to be in KDP Select, and I'd love to have the launch day be one of it's free days so my mailing list folks can grab it free. I plan to email CS at Zon to see if this is possible, but thought I'd check here first.

Has anyone considered, tried it?


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

Clare K. R. Miller said:


> Here's a question: If you list your preorder with a release date and then upload your final version at the ten-day mark, can you still push the release date forward, so you don't have to wait the full ten days between having your book ready and having it for sale?
> 
> For example, say I set up a pre-order today that will go live on October 10. On October 1, I upload the final version. Can I then change the release date to October 5?





Tasha Black said:


> If you put in a launch date of 10/19, you cannot move it to ANY date after that without getting banned...You can move it to ANY date before 10/19, regardless of how far that date it from today. You could move it from 10/19 until tomorrow if you want. The only restriction is that if your release date is less than 10 days away, you MUST upload a final version at that time.
> 
> I changed the date on my last pre-order a few days before it was scheduled, to better line up with a promo I wanted to run.





Sylvia R. Frost said:


> You can't schedule a pre-order less than four days before you want the book to drop. Learned this one the hard way.


As Sylvia did, I found out the hard way that whilst you _can_ pull your release date forward, it appears that you can't make it earlier than 4 days out.

I had a short story set up to release on Mon 22 Sept. The final file was due on Fri 12 Sept, which I duly uploaded. On Sunday 14th, I tried to pull the release date forward to Mon 15th, but the earliest it would let me do was Wed 17th (ie 4 days out). I wished I'd tried that on the Friday!


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## Clare K. R. Miller (Apr 6, 2011)

TexasGirl said:


> I guess I don't understand what you're saying about delivered. For every book I've ever bought other than a preorder, delivery is instant. It is sent instantly. I am charged instantly. The only time that is not true is if it's a preorder, or if my credit card has expired. I cannot have bought it at all if I wasn't on some form of internet.


When you place the order, don't you set which device to have it sent to? I usually set my orders to be sent to my Kindle Keyboard, which I keep disconnected from the internet by default. Then I have to turn the internet on in order for the book to be delivered. I could download it on any other device (or in the cloud) as well, but I would have to specifically say I wanted it there, and that would probably count as delivered.

I haven't, however, noticed whether my credit card is charged the day the order goes through, or the day I turn the internet on in order to download it to my device. Usually they're the same day.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Yes, I also have the device chosen, which is my 2nd Kindle (which is currently lost.)

I've been charged for all those books and they were instantly delivered to that Kindle, wherever it may be. I haven't opened a book on that Kindle in many weeks. I don't know where it is. Last night I pulled up one of the bought books on my iPhone. There are about 20 books in my cloud that have never been opened. Even though I said deliver to my Kindle, it goes to my cloud, which counts as delivered. I guess if you turn off your cloud (can you do that?) it wouldn't be delivered or charged...but I don't thinks so. This is probably a question to ask outside the Writers Cafe, where the tiny details are noticed a bit better than the writers.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I keep my Kindle in airplane mode to save the battery. I have to take it out of airplane mode before it can download anything. I have no idea if this has any bearing on pre-orders, but my books are not delivered until I connect the kindle to the internet.

With a normal purchase, however, I am charged at the time of buying, regardless of when I actually turn on the internet and download it.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

YodaRead said:


> It doesn't have to be opened, just delivered. I have an Internet hub, so my stuff isn't always hooked up to wireless. I have to officially turn it on for my books to sync. Most people aren't like that. Im not saying you have to open it to be charged, just that it has to be delivered to be charged.


This isn't true at all. I get emails from Amazon about books I've pre-ordered and they tell me "your card has now been charged and your book is available for download" and then I can go download it or not. But I still get charged when the book goes live. So they aren't charging me when I download it, they charge when it goes live.

I assume a % of people just somehow don't get charged properly because of credits cards being wrong, expiring, refusal, whatever. Stuff happens.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Philip Gibson said:


> Pre-order release time.
> 
> Good thing I was paying attention as I can now rapidly make a very few very small changes to the text which I haven't been able to do for the past 10 days.
> 
> Philip


Does anyone know if the changes you made IMMEDIATELY after the pre-order goes live are the ones sent to the customers who pre-ordered or are they sent the old file? I'd expect the new file but I just thought I'd ask.


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## Tasha Black (May 28, 2014)

Wansit said:


> Does anyone know if the changes you made IMMEDIATELY after the pre-order goes live are the ones sent to the customers who pre-ordered or are they sent the old file? I'd expect the new file but I just thought I'd ask.


Nope. 
Unfortunately, the books are delivered as it goes live, so any changes you make will be too late to reach the people who preordered.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Tasha Black said:


> Nope.
> Unfortunately, the books are delivered as it goes live, so any changes you make will be too late to reach the people who preordered.


Confirmed. I just got my pre-order. It's the old file! I changed a link so I could tell.


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## jegarlick (Jun 23, 2013)

Does anyone know...does your pre-order time count as your book's first 30 days of release...or does that start when it goes live for sale?


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## G. (Aug 21, 2014)

The count starts when it goes live, after the pre-order.


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## jegarlick (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks G!


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