# The Serial Writers Thread -- Talk Serials, Share Tips, Get Support (Have Fun!)



## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

*ETA: It appears there are lots of us writing serials here, so I thought I'd make this a general thread about writing, launching, releasing, and marketing serials. Feel free to jump in, introduce yourself and your serial(s), and keep us updated on how you're doing!*

Original post (all thoughts on this still appreciated!):

Hey all,

I'm writing my first serial and I'm super excited.  I have outlines and loads of notes for 6 "seasons" with about 10 episodes each, with the episodes about 15K - 20K words. The first episode is totally complete and I have season 1 covers, and I'm working on episode 2 now.

I'm trying to wait until I have 3 episodes written so I can release them at the same time, since that seems to work well for series. But... now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put episode 1 out there now while I'm writing the next one (because if this serial completely flops, I don't want to put 2+ years into writing more of it... that would make me a sad panda).

My planned release schedule is every two weeks. I can finish an episode in less time than that (a week to a week and a half), so eventually I'd get ahead of myself, which would be a good thing. But should I try instead to get way ahead and release weekly...?

So, the short version of my questions:

1. Should I put the first episode out now, or wait and put three out at once?
2. Is a weekly or bi-weekly release schedule better? Or does it not matter...?

The genre is urban fantasy / gothic romance / Arthurian, if that matters. 

Thank you for your thoughts! (And if you have any other thoughts on serials in general, I'd love to hear those too! )


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Hiya. I'm in exactly the same position as you. New serial, ten episodes, several seasons planned. I too am writing season 1. But my plan is absolutely to finish the first ten before I put them out. I think people will happily wait for a gap between seasons but not a gap between episodes.

My release plan is to put out Episodes 1 - 3 on the same day, Episode 4 and 5 also put up that day available for pre-order. Episode 4 will be released one week later, Episode 5 two weeks after that, then Episodes 6 - 10 will go out once every two weeks (though I am thinking once a week might hold peoples attention better, but I wouldnt be making as much use of the algos as I could be.)

I will wait and see how popular it is before I write Season 2.


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## mary_r_woldering (Jun 3, 2015)

I went at this completely differently. I wrote the whole series out as one book but when it passed 2500 PAGES   I realized I needed to do something else. I decided on 250-300 page books and began to look for good break points at those junctures. As I revised, the stories continued to grow and my first book was 486 pages my second was about 440. I'm working on my third, and it's set for 265 but who knows.  
At this point they are coming out about once a year...and NO ONE is buying.
It's a dream of mine to get them done...(My bucket list) so sell or not, I'm in.
I just wish someone would love the books as much as I do.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Evenstar said:


> Hiya. I'm in exactly the same position as you. New serial, ten episodes, several seasons planned. I too am writing season 1. But my plan is absolutely to finish the first ten before I put them out. I think people will happily wait for a gap between seasons but not a gap between episodes.
> 
> My release plan is to put out Episodes 1 - 3 on the same day, Episode 4 and 5 also put up that day available for pre-order. Episode 4 will be released one week later, Episode 5 two weeks after that, then Episodes 6 - 10 will go out once every two weeks (though I am thinking once a week might hold peoples attention better, but *I wouldnt be making as much use of the algos as I could be*.)
> 
> I will wait and see how popular it is before I write Season 2.


Hooray for serials! 

That was sorta my original plan -- put out 3 episodes at once and then start releasing every two weeks. But then I thought... what if I put out episode 1 now and see if I attract any readers, and therefore possibly have a stronger release for episode 2, and so forth... plus I'm terribly impatient and in love with my shiny, shiny cover, so that's probably clouding my judgment. LOL

I think it's a great idea to plan on seeing how just one season does first. I shall refrain from going nuts on detailed work for later seasons until this one's out and rolling.  I suppose I really should wait until I have the first 3 episodes ready (SIGH, so impatient!). Must write faster!

Hey, quick question about the bolded bit... do the algos work better with releases every 2 weeks? Because if that's the case, I'll definitely make that my schedule...

Good luck with your new serial -- I hope you sell tons!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

mary_r_woldering said:


> I went at this completely differently. I wrote the whole series out as one book but when it passed 2500 PAGES  I realized I needed to do something else. I decided on 250-300 page books and began to look for good break points at those junctures. As I revised, the stories continued to grow and my first book was 486 pages my second was about 440. I'm working on my third, and it's set for 265 but who knows.
> At this point they are coming out about once a year...and NO ONE is buying.
> It's a dream of mine to get them done...(My bucket list) so sell or not, I'm in.
> I just wish someone would love the books as much as I do.


Wow, 2500 pages is a lot of book!  I'm doing a serial (not a series) so they're much shorter... around 65 - 70 pages each.

It's definitely easier to get sales when you release frequently, but not impossible if you're releasing once a year. Have you done any promotion for your books? There's tons of threads around here on cheap and free advertising you can do (I see you're relatively new here, by your post count  )-- visibility is usually the biggest barrier to sales, so you have to work on getting more visible through marketing if you're on a slower release schedule.

Your covers are quite nice! Good luck and happy writing.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Yay for more serials!!!
I just started a similar project. Put Episode 1 out last week. My intention is to put out a new one every two weeks. Can't really advise on what works better since I just started myself, but very excited to see more serials on the horizon 
I have 8 episodes planned per season and two seasons mapped out, though I've been debating if I should have more than 8 episodes per season? I was going to wait until I grew my mailing list and put the question out to readers (how many episodes per season they'd like) but as of right now I'm sticking with 8 with a possibility of 10-12 *scratches head* Eh, I'm still working that part out lol.
Anyway, good luck! Keep us updated on what you end up doing and what works / doesn't work.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Yay, so many serial writers with new serials and different approaches! I'm so excited!

Maybe I should re-title this thread to be more a general about-serials thread, and we can all update our progress here and keep up with each other, toss some tips around, and all that fun stuff. What say you? 

We could totally have a serial writers club thread.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm writing my first serial and I'm super excited.  I have outlines and loads of notes for 6 "seasons" with about 10 episodes each, with the episodes about 15K - 20K words. The first episode is totally complete and I have season 1 covers, and I'm working on episode 2 now.
> 
> ...


I also do a serial. I have six total episodes per season--five episodes that are released for sale and one prequel episode that's available as a giveaway to subscribers (and will be included in the season compilation). All the episodes are 15K, although the season finale ended up being 20K. What I did with the first season was wrote the entire thing in advance and I released the episodes on a monthly schedule. I don't recommend the monthly schedule. I'm switching to bi-weekly for season two. If you can manage a weekly schedule, then I think that's even better.

There are serial writers who release bi-weekly or even weekly and write as they release. But that would be way too hectic for me, which is why I do the episodes in advance. No one knows your schedule and your capabilities and limitations better than you, so you're really the only one who can make an informed decision on this. Me personally, I have a day job (several, in fact) and I write 1000-2000 words a day, so I want to give myself some time in case crap happens to interrupt my schedule. So that's why I do the season in advance. I tend to stress out easily--for example, I'm halfway into episode 8 right now and I'm planning to start season two with episode 6 in late September and yet even though 8 won't come out until late October and 9-10 in November, I'm already stressing about finishing them. So anything I can do to minimize that stress is good.

Also, be aware that it may be difficult to judge if the serial's going to work until the end of the second season. Individual episodes can be really tough to get reviews on and there are a lot of readers who won't get them but instead will wait until the season compilation is out.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Yay, so many serial writers with new serials and different approaches! I'm so excited!
> 
> Maybe I should re-title this thread to be more a general about-serials thread, and we can all update our progress here and keep up with each other, toss some tips around, and all that fun stuff. What say you?
> 
> We could totally have a serial writers club thread.


I'm totally down for this! Releasing a serial is definitely different than releasing a whole novel and the tips and tricks seem to work a bit differently. Personally, I'm cobbling together ideas for promotion etc and trying to see what works, especially since this is a brand new pen name for me. It'd be nice to see how others are approaching the release of their serials and see what works and what doesn't for serial promotion. Add to the fact that a lot of promo sites don't take "short" works, so a serial writer's thread could help us keep updated on places that do and don't work with our format.

I put mine on a two week release schedule more out of necessity (one week to prep the serial episode and one week to write new ones / work on the longer works for my other pen name which isn't doing too well lately ) I think every week probably works better - I know people who serialize work on Wattpad tend to advise releasing at least once a week on the same day to keep reader's interest and show consistency to make readers more comfortable getting involved in a serial.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

WickedRed said:


> Yay for more serials!!!
> I just started a similar project. Put Episode 1 out last week. My intention is to put out a new one every two weeks. Can't really advise on what works better since I just started myself, but very excited to see more serials on the horizon
> I have 8 episodes planned per season and two seasons mapped out, though I've been debating if I should have more than 8 episodes per season? I was going to wait until I grew my mailing list and put the question out to readers (how many episodes per season they'd like) but as of right now I'm sticking with 8 with a possibility of 10-12 *scratches head* Eh, I'm still working that part out lol.
> Anyway, good luck! Keep us updated on what you end up doing and what works / doesn't work.


Forgot to say -- thank you, and good luck to you too! I'm staying pretty flexible on the number of episodes per season... 10 for the first, definitely, but I might end up with 12 for other seasons which have more complicated plots. 



carinasanfey said:


> I'm releasing a ten-episode historical fantasy serial (10k words each) all in one go this weekend (very appropriately, while I will be binge-watching the entire third season of Orange is the New Black). I have no idea whether the all-in-one-go approach will work or not, but I'm going on the basis that people seem to want everything available to them when they start to invest time in something and seeing what happens.
> 
> I also started an other-world fantasy serial last week (second thingy in my sig), and will be releasing the second episode later today. I have a hundred episodes planned for that (10k each), and I'll release one a week for two years. Will see how that goes...
> 
> ...


That is so awesome -- 10 at once! Let us know how it goes? Would love to see a comparison between your all-at-once serial and the new one with release intervals.


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## Fannin Callahan (Jun 8, 2015)

Soooo happy to see this thread. I am doing the same thing with my Demon Walk series. Just released episode one, planning to release #2 this weekend, and will likely stick to a bi-weekly schedule, though I'd love to be able to do it weekly. I do however have a very demanding day job, (even though lately it barely puts food on the table) so bi-weekly is probably the best I can do. In addition, I polish, and polish, and polish. Really I polish myself into insanity, so it's very hard for me to say, "okay, this is ready."

Also, I am (at least for now) planning my releases with the "seasons" actually representing a four act story arc, with four books per season. Book one is Act One, etc. etc.

So far, since the weekend, I've had a total of 4 sales, 3 of which were family, so yeah. Not much happening, but I am not doing any promotion until I have the second episode up. Then I'll start trying to figure out a way to get the series in front of readers. That should be fun NOT. I do hate everything associated with marketing. It is a big part of what I do in my day job, and I hate that it must become part of my writing as well. Not to mention the fact that I don't know where I am going to find the time to figure out how to market this thing. Wish there were more hours in the day.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fannin Callahan said:


> Also, I am (at least for now) planning my releases with the "seasons" actually representing a four act story arc, with four books per season. Book one is Act One, etc. etc.


I'm doing something similar. I've got a five-season mega-arc planned.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> I also do a serial. I have six total episodes per season--five episodes that are released for sale and one prequel episode that's available as a giveaway to subscribers (and will be included in the season compilation). All the episodes are 15K, although the season finale ended up being 20K. What I did with the first season was wrote the entire thing in advance and I released the episodes on a monthly schedule. I don't recommend the monthly schedule. I'm switching to bi-weekly for season two. If you can manage a weekly schedule, then I think that's even better.
> 
> There are serial writers who release bi-weekly or even weekly and write as they release. But that would be way too hectic for me, which is why I do the episodes in advance. No one knows your schedule and your capabilities and limitations better than you, so you're really the only one who can make an informed decision on this. Me personally, I have a day job (several, in fact) and I write 1000-2000 words a day, so I want to give myself some time in case crap happens to interrupt my schedule. So that's why I do the season in advance. I tend to stress out easily--for example, I'm halfway into episode 8 right now and I'm planning to start season two with episode 6 in late September and yet even though 8 won't come out until late October and 9-10 in November, I'm already stressing about finishing them. So anything I can do to minimize that stress is good.
> 
> Also, be aware that it may be difficult to judge if the serial's going to work until the end of the second season. Individual episodes can be really tough to get reviews on and there are a lot of readers who won't get them but instead will wait until the season compilation is out.


I can definitely see where you'd want to be ahead if you've got other commitments! It's good to know there's all sorts of different ways to go about this. And thanks for mentioning that about waiting until the second season to decide whether it's working! 

I'm still so very impatient. I know I can handle writing fast enough to get them out every two weeks... maybe I'll put the first one up on preorder. Like right now!! But FIRST... I will have a think about that. Try not to jump the gun and all.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Fannin Callahan said:


> Soooo happy to see this thread. I am doing the same thing with my Demon Walk series. Just released episode one, planning to release #2 this weekend, and will likely stick to a bi-weekly schedule, though I'd love to be able to do it weekly. I do however have a very demanding day job, (even though lately it barely puts food on the table) so bi-weekly is probably the best I can do. In addition, I polish, and polish, and polish. Really I polish myself into insanity, so it's very hard for me to say, "okay, this is ready."
> 
> Also, I am (at least for now) planning my releases with the "seasons" actually representing a four act story arc, with four books per season. Book one is Act One, etc. etc.
> 
> So far, since the weekend, I've had a total of 4 sales, 3 of which were family, so yeah. Not much happening, but I am not doing any promotion until I have the second episode up. Then I'll start trying to figure out a way to get the series in front of readers. That should be fun NOT. I do hate everything associated with marketing. It is a big part of what I do in my day job, and I hate that it must become part of my writing as well. Not to mention the fact that I don't know where I am going to find the time to figure out how to market this thing. Wish there were more hours in the day.


Yay, more serials!  I think bi-weekly is probably a really good release schedule. I guess weekly would be great, but it seems like that might be too fast... for the writer, at least. Because it would be too easy to miss a week (unless you wrote the entire serial before releasing anything, and I'm WAY too impatient for that! LOL).

Seems to me that bi-weekly should be enough to get decent visibility, though. Good luck with yours -- hope you see a nice bump in sales with episode 2's release!

And I agree -- marketing sucks.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

I know what you mean about "jumping the gun". Even though I have a few episodes written already, I've been getting a serious case of "maybe I should have waited" this week, since even though I did a free day on release day I haven't seen much action on the first episode yet and while I should be polishing episode two for release next week, I'm getting distracted with fiddling with my covers and staring at my episode 2 blurb in annoyance lol

I am planning on doing a free 2 day push with adds next week on episode one when I release episode two. If you guys are interested, I'll keep you updated on how it goes


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

"Anna's Legacy" is 14 episodes releasing once a month in KDP Select. The first four have now been published so I'm getting ready to kick off some promo soon. I just have to figure out what. Audience is girls approximately 16-24. Main character is a 21-year-old girl breaking out from her highly controlling parents with the aid of an adoring great-aunt. Did I mention the great-aunt is dead and was very wealthy?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I just completed a 9 part serial - shifter romance. I released every 3 weeks and it worked out well for me. I needed to build a mailing list from scratch and wanted enough time between installments to get subscribers. Having cliffhanger endings has really helped. It was more successful than I had hoped, and I'm going to start another season in August. I do write as I go. I started off having 4 rough drafts done but life got in the way and I wound up writing the first draft of a part that went to editors when the previous part released.  

I'm also participating in a group serial project that is an experiment. 6 authors and 18 books set in the same world but different parts of the country (by author). Each book is a stand alone but interrelated by author. It just kicked off Monday. We're releasing 3 a week for the first two weeks and then 2 a week for the following 6. I'm anxious to see how it works out.


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## KaiW (Mar 11, 2014)

Are you all using KU for your serials? If so what kind of pricing did you go for? Mine's a four parter which I'll release all at once - just not sure if I should make the first permafree or use Select Free days


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

I'm outlining two serials at the moment - sci fi and urban fantasy. My original plan was monthly or so, but then I was also planning on installments in the 40,000 novella range. Now I'm wondering if I should instead go around 15k and do every two weeks......

I can't really concentrate on it till the last book in my series is finished, but it's nice having something else to focus on when I'm stuck. 

I'm going back and forth on whether to use a pen name or not as well.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

KaiW said:


> Are you all using KU for your serials? If so what kind of pricing did you go for? Mine's a four parter which I'll release all at once - just not sure if I should make the first permafree or use Select Free days


I'm keeping each individual episode in KU for borrows and free days and they are each priced at 99cents. When a certain number of episodes are out (either 4 or 5 depending on how many episodes I end up with at the end of the season) I'll be putting out bundles of 4-5 episodes which will be amazon exclusive but NOT in Select. Individual episodes can be borrowed but compilations won't, if that makes sense.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

LOL I'm going to have to make keeping up with this thread my other, other job... so glad to see so many folks participating!


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

I don't have any tips yet, but I definitely like seeing this thread. I'm currently writing Regency, but when I finish my WIP I have a sci-fi screenplay I want to turn into a serial. I saw it as a movie or series pilot, so if it sells decently, I'll write another season for it.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

WickedRed said:


> I'm keeping each individual episode in KU for borrows and free days and they are each priced at 99cents. When a certain number of episodes are out (either 4 or 5 depending on how many episodes I end up with at the end of the season) I'll be putting out bundles of 4-5 episodes which will be amazon exclusive but NOT in Select. Individual episodes can be borrowed but compilations won't, if that makes sense.


Makes sense to me... that's what I'm planning to do. Eventually. When I have a bunch out... must! write! now! LOL


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> LOL I'm going to have to make keeping up with this thread my other, other job... so glad to see so many folks participating!


Heehee I was just thinking the same thing. Procrastination is in full effect today *smacks hand away from the refresh button*

But seriously, I love seeing this thread! Soo many serials! It's exciting


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

I'm trying to stick with a monthly schedule with mine. It's probably not the best idea but all my volumes are going to be 30,000 words. I'm also going with the four act method, structured along the basic lines of Dan harmon's approach to the hero's journey. I think of the work as a single novel, only I'm taking special care to make sure that each turning point is a really big event that can serve as a decent ending to an episode. 

I have no outline and I'm basically making it up as I go along. I have carefully worked out all the the core conflicts, I know all the basic story questions, and I have a basic underlying structure concept that I generally adhere to with all my stories, but I still have no idea how it ends or how I will get there. It's scary under the circumstances, but I could never work any other way. If I had an outline I would've already given up on the whole thing before I ever got this far.  

I sort of hate the trapeze act of trying to get all this done with a deadline, but I think it's making me work a lot harder and forcing me to be more practical. If I hadn't decided to go ahead and release the first part of this, I might have found an excuse to rewrite the whole thing from scratch at some point, or skipped over to some other project without finishing. I'm really bad to do things like that.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

I am confused about the difference between episode and season? Sorry to be dim, but what is an episode and what or why is a season? Why would you have different seasons? Are we talking serials or series, i.e. do the stories stand alone or must they be read in sequence to make sense?


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Doglover said:


> I am confused about the difference between episode and season? Sorry to be dim, but what is an episode and what or why is a season? Why would you have different seasons? Are we talking serials or series, i.e. do the stories stand alone or must they be read in sequence to make sense?


\
Serials.  Most likely they'd have to be read in sequence. Seasons are longer plot arcs, and episodes are individual stories within those plots -- like TV shows, basically.

Or, you could think of each season as a full novel in a series, and the episodes as parts of those novels (only, you know, the episodes are full stories and not just chopped-up novels. ). Hope that makes sense...


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm excited to see this thread created. I have a serial but I neglected it for a very long time for my longer works This month and the whole summer I plant o start releasing lots of episodes to see if I can get it going again.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> \
> Serials.  Most likely they'd have to be read in sequence. Seasons are longer plot arcs, and episodes are individual stories within those plots -- like TV shows, basically.
> 
> Or, you could think of each season as a full novel in a series, and the episodes as parts of those novels (only, you know, the episodes are full stories and not just chopped-up novels. ). Hope that makes sense...


I think so. I have only one series, which didn't start out as a serial but I thought other characters had good stories to tell as well. So I have five books, all separate stories, but all set in the same historical period and with some of the characters interacting in all of them.

Right now, I have started a contemporary romance which I plan to be novella length stories. I want them to have separate stories, with just a little nudge for the next book.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm trying to blow new life into an old thriller series. Funny enough, I forgot to end the first book on a cliffhanger. (Blush, I'd never written a serial before.) I've just corrected that mistake. Now I'm going to rework the second book, upgrading it with a cliffhanger of its own. My books are terribly short. That's a worry to me, but I tend to write short.  There's no getting around it. I blame it on my years spent working radio news. (30 seconds is often a major news story. Sometimes we can expand it to one full minute.)

As for advertising shorts, there are a lot of Facebook pages that allow authors promote their work. I've never seen a length demand on any of them. I also would like to start a Facebook page just for promoting serials. Unfortunately I have to choose friends to ad. So if you want to send me your Facebook handle, I could include you. Or if you'd like to put up a page instead, let me know, and I'll PM you.

I think a place of our own here at Kboards is a wonderful idea.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Anna Drake said:


> I'm trying to blow new life into an old thriller series. Funny enough, I forgot to end the first book on a cliffhanger. (Blush, I'd never written a serial before.) I've just corrected that mistake. Now I'm going to rework the second book, upgrading it with a cliffhanger of its own. My books are terribly short. That's a worry to me, but I tend to write short. There's no getting around it. I blame it on my years spent working radio news. (30 seconds is often a major news story. Sometimes we can expand it to one full minute.)
> 
> As for advertising shorts, there are a lot of Facebook pages that allow authors promote their work. I've never seen a length demand on any of them. I also would like to start a Facebook page just for promoting serials. Unfortunately I have to choose friends to ad. So if you want to send me your Facebook handle, I could include you. Or if you'd like to put up a page instead, let me know, and I'll PM you.
> 
> I think a place of our own here at Kboards is a wonderful idea.


A fb group / page for promoting serials sounds cool!
Unfortunately I don't have a personal FB account for this pen name (too much social media overload - I tried to keep it simple this time and only have a blog and a FB author page) so I'm not sure how to join


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Anna Drake said:


> I'm trying to blow new life into an old thriller series. Funny enough, I forgot to end the first book on a cliffhanger. (Blush, I'd never written a serial before.) I've just corrected that mistake. Now I'm going to rework the second book, upgrading it with a cliffhanger of its own. My books are terribly short. That's a worry to me, but I tend to write short. There's no getting around it. I blame it on my years spent working radio news. (30 seconds is often a major news story. Sometimes we can expand it to one full minute.)
> 
> As for advertising shorts, there are a lot of Facebook pages that allow authors promote their work. I've never seen a length demand on any of them. I also would like to start a Facebook page just for promoting serials. Unfortunately I have to choose friends to ad. So if you want to send me your Facebook handle, I could include you. Or if you'd like to put up a page instead, let me know, and I'll PM you.
> 
> I think a place of our own here at Kboards is a wonderful idea.


I'm also not on FB with this name, sadly, but I'm thinking about it. I don't even do anything with my FB pages for my other two names... that's why I didn't bother with this one, LOL.

Something else you mentioned made me think of another question: Cliffhangers. Are they required? I mean, I know it gets people to buy through to the next episode, but I also know there are people who won't buy if there's a cliffhanger. What do y'all think about the serial / cliffhanger relationship? 

Personally, I really HATE cliffhangers, but it's because I recently discovered the joy and agony of Supernatural (no, I had not watched it before now, and yes, I have been binging and have watched almost 10 seasons in like 2 months... yikes) and the cliffhangers... they hurt me. They make me cry, and they make me angry. But they don't stop me from carrying on (haha) and watching more.

However! If I didn't have all of these episodes available to me, and Supernatural wasn't AMAZING, I would probably not keep watching because of all the cliffhangers. And my serial is not Supernatural amazing. LOL

I am using mild cliffhangers for season- and serial-wide related plot threads (and may do a few two-part episodes), but I'm not ending every episode on a cliff. Now I'm wondering if I should.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2015)

So excited to see this thread! I am currently writing a Paranormal/Romance/Historical serial called Hell's Belles. I am writing it with the idea that it's really for people with Kindle Unlimited. I am pricing it at a higher price point (2.99) because I did a survey among reader friends and they say they pause when something is less than that, that for some reason 2.99 seems to imply value. I don't understand it or really go by that but enough people told me that so I am trying it out.

Next week I am doing a promotion with bknights and putting it at .99 for a few days. Isn't it great we have these options?? I also make it clear at the end of my description that it's a serial. 

Are y'all doing print editions as well? I am because it doesn't really seem to cost much more if you can do the PDFs. I actually don't know how long my serial will be. I definitely know how it will end but there are so much potential for subplots that I am thinking it will be ongoing for awhile... Kind of like HM Ward's series.


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

I've got a serial on the go, a British paranormal story (think Torchwood meets the supernatural) but I admit I've ballsed it up. I started it off with the best of intentions, and got the first few episodes out, but then realised I was neglecting existing series I was meant to be writing. The episodes are on the short side (under 5k each and 99p each, but the first is/should be free).

I need to knuckle down and at least get the season finished. When I'm actually writing an episode, I do love it but I suffer from Shiny Syndrome too much. 

Hopefully this thread will kick my arse into completing the story.


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## J. B. Cantwell (Mar 26, 2014)

BelleAC said:


> I am pricing it at a higher price point (2.99) because I did a survey among reader friends and they say they pause when something is less than that, that for some reason 2.99 seems to imply value. I don't understand it or really go by that but enough people told me that so I am trying it out.


I see that your ranking isn't bad considering you only have the first installment out. I'm curious&#8230; can you please share your ratio of borrows to sales at that price point?


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

I've been on Facebook for so long that I don't remember how to join. I have a personal account plus a Page under my pen name. My personal account focuses on family and friends and interests. (Go Blackhawks!) Truthfully, I don't use my pen name page much, although I know many authors who do.

But there are lots of sites on Facebook that let you post book promos. They aren't as effective as most of those who charge (nodding at Bknights here), but they are another chance to meet up with a stray reader or two.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2015)

J. B. Cantwell said:


> I see that your ranking isn't bad considering you only have the first installment out. I'm curious... can you please share your ratio of borrows to sales at that price point?


Sure! Well the first day I had 10 sales to 2 borrows. I have never had more than 2 borrows in a day so far. Each day sales have dropped and as of today I have no sales but I still have 2 borrows. I hope that helps. For two days I was actually #55 in Paranormal Juvenile Fiction, which was nice. I think my highest ranking was 20,000th.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2015)

Anna Drake said:


> I've been on Facebook for so long that I don't remember how to join. I have a personal account plus a Page under my pen name. My personal account focuses on family and friends and interests. (Go Blackhawks!) Truthfully, I don't use my pen name page much, although I know many authors who do.
> 
> But there are lots of sites on Facebook that let you post book promos. They aren't as effective as most of those who charge (nodding at Bknights here), but they are another chance to meet up with a stray reader or two.


I wish my FB author page wasn't hooked to my personal account. It means I can never get rid of my personal account, something I have wanted to do so many times. Also, FB requires payment to even show your author posts in the feeds of the people who like your page. I did a 10 dollar ad to try to get views and the return was completely not worth it. I have about 275 likes on my page and when I post like 30 people see it. So frustrating.


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## Andrea Pearson (Jun 25, 2011)

Okay, this thread is uber awesome.  So excited to participate!

Here's my plan:

Finish up my Katon University series - all of the books are written but one - and publish those between now and October. In another two weeks, I'll be finished writing the last book in that series.

So, between July and October (which is when my baby is due), I'm going to be madly writing my episodes! I plan to put them up for pre-order, probably starting in January, one episode a week for as long as it takes until I run out or until I'm ready to start writing again (with a newborn and a toddler. Yeah, I'm crazy.  ), at which point, I may slow it down to once every two weeks.

Here are my questions for those of you who'd like to answer them all in one spot (and I know several have answered already):

1. What genre is your serial in?
2. How long is each episode?
3. How many episodes per season?
4. How many seasons?
5. What price per episode?
6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?

I'm loving the posts so far!


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## Andrea Pearson (Jun 25, 2011)

Here are my own answers:

1. What genre is your serial in?
YA fantasy to adult fantasy - I have a couple of serials I'll be working on.

2. How long is each episode?
Between 15,000 and 20,000 words

3. How many episodes per season?
Don't know! Didn't even consider this. I like the sounds of ten, though.

4. How many seasons?
Another one I haven't figured out yet. 

5. What price per episode?
$0.99

6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
I'm leaning toward KDP Select... but I have readers in other venues that I don't want to have miss out!

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
Still undecided (wanting to see everyone else's answers)

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
Faster to bite off with kids running around! Plus, I have a couple friends who are doing well with serials.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

Andrea Pearson said:


> Okay, this thread is uber awesome.  So excited to participate!
> 
> Here's my plan:
> 
> ...


*1. What genre is your serial in?*
Horror fantasy blend

*2. How long is each episode?*
about 30,000 words.

*3. How many episodes per season?*
Four

*4. How many seasons?*
No clue. I don't really think of what I'm doing as a _season_ precisely. It's more a serialized novel. I can imagine creating more stories with these characters, but I have no firm plans along those lines.

*5. What price per episode?*
$0.99, But reading BelleAC's post above, I wonder if I might be better off with 2.99.

*6. KDP Select or diversify and why?*
Went with KDP select for Kindle Unlimited. So far Borrows are outpacing sales.

*7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?*
Cliffhangers for sure, because the whole thing is one big story and there is no other way to structure it. But big things will happen in each volume.

*8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?*
Partly to force myself to become more professional about writing. This idea started as a conventional novel, but I realized if I didn't go ahead and publish something soon, I was going to drive myself insane with endless revisions and switching projects. I started thinking of ways to make each act feel a little more complete, and I added more action to my first act to beef it up. In terms of structure I'm less influenced by the way TV shows do it, and more influenced by the way TV mini-series work. Reading each part of my serial should be almost exactly like watching a four part TV mini-series. At the time of publishing I had my whole first act ready, and a very messy version of act 2 written. Right now I'm deep in the process of reworking act 2. So far I've had to write a lot of brand new material.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2015)

Andrea Pearson said:


> So, between July and October (which is when my baby is due), I'm going to be madly writing my episodes! I plan to put them up for pre-order, probably starting in January, one episode a week for as long as it takes until I run out or until I'm ready to start writing again (with a newborn and a toddler. Yeah, I'm crazy.  ), at which point, I may slow it down to once every two weeks.


That's actually really smart. I have two sons, one is 3 and other is 1. And I wrote when I was pregnant and on nights when I was constantly waking up. So you have all my respect and support! I think writing while you have the time is the way to go.

1. What genre is your serial in?
Paranormal YA. With romance and historical elements.

2. How long is each episode?
approx 25k

3. How many episodes per season?
Mine is just one long arch. I don't plan on really splitting it up into seasons, per se. Though every 4-5 I might make them sets. I am thinking about how HM Ward does her series/serials. I do plan on publishing every 2-3 weeks.

4. How many seasons?
Not applicable.

5. What price per episode?
For now, 2.99 but once I have the second one out I am dropping the first one to .99 cents. I write this mainly for the KU crowd.

6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
I am going to do Select for the summer and see how it does. Being a new author I thought I would take advantage of that. My novel length works will be acorss all channels and my serials will be Amazon Exclusive. This could change but for now thats my plan of attack.

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
Cliffhangers but not the kind that are just sudden, if that makes sense. Each serial will end in a question that needs to be answered in the next installment. But each book will have its own distinct beginning, middle, and end with something resolved. But at the same time I want readers to want more! It's a fine line.

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
This is something that I really just started for fun when I needed breaks from my novels. It's a different way of telling the story and I am hoping to get reader feedback on the kinds of things they'd like to see happen next.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

1. What genre is your serial in?
Paranormal fantasy / romance errr adventure with a very *cough cough* adult theme. Amazon stuck me in erotica, even though I didn't. Haven't quite figured out if I'm okay with that or not. So far, the only downside has been that I'm not allowed to have it in my signature as it's not family friendly 

2. How long is each episode?
Between 10,000 and 20,000 words.

3. How many episodes per season?
Haven't decided yet. Definitely 8, maybe up to 12.

4. How many seasons?
I've got two planned out so far.

5. What price per episode?
$0.99

6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
Select for borrows and free days.

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
I try to have "soft" cliffs, leaving some questions from the overarching storyline but having the main story of that episode wrapped up.

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
I do both, just under different pen names. Right now the serial is really lighting my fire so that's what I'm focusing on


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Why would you do preorders when you make so much more money on a 99 cent serial with a borrow?  

1. What genre is your serial in? Paranormal Romance - shifters
2. How long is each episode? 15 to 24K
3. How many episodes per season? 9 in the one I completed. 
4. How many seasons? At least 2 depending on if the next season goes well. 
5. What price per episode? 99 cents
6. KDP Select or diversify and why? KDP Select for the borrow rates
7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why? Cliffhangers on one and I'm in the midst of one that is stand alones. I think cliffhangers keep people coming back but see the value in stand alones too.
8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels? I studied the market for bear shifters, and when I saw bear shifters start to become a thing in KU I changed up my vendor-wide trilogy idea to a serial. I discovered I adore writing that length. I love cliffhangers so much. I have a delicious secret   My struggle right now to write my full-length novel is making me anxious to get back to my bears.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Andrea Pearson said:


> Okay, this thread is uber awesome.  So excited to participate!
> 
> Here's my plan:
> 
> ...


Yes, but you're crazy in an awesome way! Good luck with that! 



Andrea Pearson said:


> Here are my questions for those of you who'd like to answer them all in one spot (and I know several have answered already):


Yay, Q&As are fun! 

1. What genre is your serial in? Urban fantasy / Gothic romance / Arthurian (set in modern times, of course)

2. How long is each episode? About 15K - 20K words (65 - 70 pages, ish)

3. How many episodes per season? 10 or 12

4. How many seasons? 6

5. What price per episode? 99 cents, just because they're so short I can't justify charging more 

6. KDP Select or diversify and why? Select because that's where I'm establishing the new pen name I launched in December, which this serial will go under

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why? Trying REAL hard to avoid ending episodes in major cliffhangers, but some may end up being two-parters. Mostly the episodes have mild cliffhangers that relate to season arcs or series arcs. And I was going to say only a few seasons end in cliffhangers, but... I lied. Just looked at my notes. They all end in cliffhangers (except season 6 because there's no more after that), but they aren't OMG I'LL DIE IF I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS kind of cliffhangers.

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels? I've written novels. Lots and lots and lots of novels. I wanted to try something new and I had this grand, huge idea that combines Arthurian legend with the Fae world I created for another series, and it's big and sprawling and full of stuff happening. It could have been a series of six novels, I guess, but I really want to play with the serial format. So far I'm loving writing it.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Boyd said:


> All I can tell you, once you hit it, and it it hits big, you need to focus on it. I'm nobody big, but right off the bat, my first book took off. It took a thread where Pheonix Sullivan and Joe Nobody explained how rankings and amazon's own pushing worked for me to see how things took off for me. The day I published that first in the serial, I started a new mailchimp list.
> 
> If this lowly writer can do it, you can too.


That is awesome! Congrats!  And you give me hope. 

P.S. Where's the thread? I'm studying everything I can get my grubby paws on.


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## Kessie Carroll (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm reading this thread with excitement. None of my other writer friends are experimenting with serials, and I just started outlining/writing a sci fi space serial (think Sherlock in space). I'm planning three parts to start with--kind of a pilot miniseries. If it does well, I'll write more in the world. Mysteries are a bear to plan (you have to do them backward), but hey, the original Sherlock Holmes stories were pretty short, too. Talk about the original serial. 

Anyway, keep us posted, everybody!


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## Susanne123 (Jan 9, 2014)

"But... now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put episode 1 out there now while I'm writing the next one ..."

I'll respond to your fabulous post -- as a reader:

When I read a fabulous book, I want more and I don't want to wait. If I wait, I forget (and that's what you don't want). There's just so much to read that even if I've made a note about the book/author, I likely won't follow up. 

But, if I can read at least two books/series/episodes, I'm hooked. Then I can wait for the next installment. With anticipation


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Boyd said:


> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,215091.0.html


Thank you, Dancing Vader! Your avatar is so... hypnotic... 



Susanne123 said:


> "But... now I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put episode 1 out there now while I'm writing the next one ..."
> 
> I'll respond to your fabulous post -- as a reader:
> 
> ...


Thank you, Susanne! Really great points... I don't like to wait either! 

Two episodes, eh? Well, I'm hellbent on finishing episode 2 over the weekend, so maybe I can control my itchy Publish finger until Monday.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Sapphire said:


> "Anna's Legacy" is 14 episodes releasing once a month in KDP Select. The first four have now been published so I'm getting ready to kick off some promo soon. I just have to figure out what. Audience is girls approximately 16-24. Main character is a 21-year-old girl breaking out from her highly controlling parents with the aid of an adoring great-aunt. Did I mention the great-aunt is dead and was very wealthy?


To finish answering the questions:
1- Genre is blend of YA and New Adult
2- Length is 14-18,000 words per episode
3- 14 episodes
4- 1 season
5- Price is 1.49 per episode except first which is .99
6- KDP Select
7- No big cliffhangers but always a hint of what's to come in next episode
8- I'm doing this as an experiment with KU borrows. It also seemed a good way to try my hand at a different genre.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KaiW said:


> Are you all using KU for your serials? If so what kind of pricing did you go for? Mine's a four parter which I'll release all at once - just not sure if I should make the first permafree or use Select Free days


A lot of this may be genre-dependent, but I have not found KU to be effective at all for me with my serial. My episodes were initially priced at $0.99 and borrows accounted for a very small percentage of the total units moved. Granted, one borrow is the equivalent of about 3-4 $0.99 sales but still, the numbers were not what I'd expected. The Select period will be over for all the episodes in August and when that happens, I'm going to put the episodes wide, make the first permafree, and also release the season bundle.

A few other people have also said they had low borrows on $0.99 episodes. My theory on this is I think KU subscribers prefer to borrow higher-priced books so they feel like they're getting the most out of their $9.99 monthly subscription fee. Of course, I have nothing to back that up other than a gut feeling.



Doglover said:


> I am confused about the difference between episode and season? Sorry to be dim, but what is an episode and what or why is a season? Why would you have different seasons? Are we talking serials or series, i.e. do the stories stand alone or must they be read in sequence to make sense?


Think of it as a TV show. TV shows are composed of episodes that are grouped into seasons. Usually (not always in the past but more so these days), TV shows will have an over-arching season-long story-arc. There are a few reasons why you'd have a season. For one, there's the idea of a longer story-arc per season. Even if you do largely self-contained episodes, a season still makes it easier to group box sets into season sets. It also provides you a natural spot to take a bit of a break and work on something else.



S.W. Vaughn said:


> I'm also not on FB with this name, sadly, but I'm thinking about it. I don't even do anything with my FB pages for my other two names... that's why I didn't bother with this one, LOL.
> 
> Something else you mentioned made me think of another question: Cliffhangers. Are they required? I mean, I know it gets people to buy through to the next episode, but I also know there are people who won't buy if there's a cliffhanger. What do y'all think about the serial / cliffhanger relationship?
> 
> ...


I think it's important to remember the expectations of your audience. Even if you don't like cliffhangers, there are a lot of serial readers who do. Ultimately it's your story so if you don't want to include cliffhangers there's no serial police that will come along and fine you. But you may not have as much read-through without the cliffhangers, so it's something to keep in mind.



BelleAC said:


> Are y'all doing print editions as well? I am because it doesn't really seem to cost much more if you can do the PDFs. I actually don't know how long my serial will be. I definitely know how it will end but there are so much potential for subplots that I am thinking it will be ongoing for awhile... Kind of like HM Ward's series.


Oh yeah, I'm definitely doing print versions of the season compilations. I even considered doing them of the individual episodes. I'm a professional book formatter so it's a simple enough process for me, but after experimenting with the first episode in InDesign and seeing the final page count, I just decided it wasn't worth it.



BelleAC said:


> Also, FB requires payment to even show your author posts in the feeds of the people who like your page. I did a 10 dollar ad to try to get views and the return was completely not worth it. I have about 275 likes on my page and when I post like 30 people see it. So frustrating.


Just a point of clarification here, the posts made by your page will be shown to some people who like your page. You need to pay to reach more people (which is total BS, making you pay to reach the people who have said they want to see your stuff), but it's not like your posts will go completely unseen if you don't pay. I have 324 likes on my page and I get anywhere from 50-100 reaches per post. Granted, that's only like 15-30% of my audience, but it's still higher than 0%.



Andrea Pearson said:


> 1. What genre is your serial in?
> 2. How long is each episode?
> 3. How many episodes per season?
> 4. How many seasons?
> ...


1. Superhero

2. 15,000 words

3. Six episodes per season--five are up for sale and a prequel that's only available to subscribers until the season compilation.

4. My mega-arc is set for five seasons but I could also continue on past that. Ideally, I'd love to have this serial reach 100 episodes, which would be twenty seasons.

5. $0.99 at launch, then later upping to $1.99.

6. Select at first, then after the season is complete, go wide.

7. Yes and no. Each episode of the serial is pretty self-contained. The main story that begins in an episode will also end in that episode. But there will be plot points that link to the season-long arc with some cliffhanger-style endings.

8. I grew up with comic books and I love the serial format. I mostly prefer to write shorter works. The last time I wrote a novel, I did it with the belief that it would potentially be the first in a series of novels. But I felt so burned out by the end that I never wanted to go back to that world again. But with novellas and especially serials, I keep wanting to go back. Even though novels may be better for my genre, serials are really what I want to do. So maybe I'm taking a hit on sales, but I think in the long-term it'll be worth it.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

I'm tempted to try jumping to 1.99 to see if that ups my KU borrows. I'm already getting more borrows than sales right now, but I'm really in this for KU primarily, at least until I release the omnibus. If sales declined more and KU borrows went up a notch, that wouldn't bother me at all. 

But I am a bit worried that charging that much might lead to bad reviews. Also, I'm not really sure if horror is a very KU friendly genre in general. Charging more might not make any difference even if the basic premise (higher price = more borrows) is true.


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## Rebecca Norinne Caudill (Feb 6, 2015)

Another serial writer reporting for duty!

I never really considered writing a serial but then I was talking with a friend about a story idea I had and she mentioned what a good TV show it would make ... the rest, as they say, is history. In addition to trying out a new method of publishing, I also wrote this one in first person POV which I think plays well for the genre (contemporary romance) but is different than what I'm used to writing. So far the response has been positive from readers, but I'm not getting a lot of sales/borrows (tons of downloads on free days though).

1. What genre is your serial in?
Contemporary romance

2. How long is each episode?
The first installment was just over 18,000 words. The second installment is currently with my beta readers and it's clocking in at around 23,500. I had initially meant to go between 9k and 12k words each episode but then the story just took on a life of its own.

3. How many episodes per season?
I'm aiming for four to six episodes.

4. How many seasons?
Just the one, I think.

5. What price per episode?
$0.00

6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
KDP Select because I like that people can borrow it. It's a low barrier of entry for my books and if it helps me build a fan base, all the better.

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
Each episode will have a definitive end point so that if someone decides they don't care to read on they can at least feel like they've reached a nice conclusion point, but each installment picks up where the previous one left off.

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
It was an idea a fellow author and I were discussing trying and I just decided to buckle down and do it. I saw so many other people successfully putting out 50 - 100 page novellas that I thought there was certainly a chance of success.


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been looking at getting into the serial business as it more fits my style of writing.  I have sort of made a start recently.  I mostly write short fiction and have a large backlog of it, so I have started serialising it as webfiction.  A large number of the stories belong to a few series and I have been serialising each story in 1-2K parts at the moment, 3 times a week - most of the stories are 8-12K in length.

I do want to do a proper serial at some point, but I'm still mulling over which one to do.  I've got a number of stories ideas that would work.  it's just a matter of choosing one.  So far I'm trying to work out between an epic fantasy, a space opera or an urban fantasy.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Anna Drake said:


> I'm trying to blow new life into an old thriller series. Funny enough, I forgot to end the first book on a cliffhanger. (Blush, I'd never written a serial before.) I've just corrected that mistake. Now I'm going to rework the second book, upgrading it with a cliffhanger of its own. My books are terribly short. That's a worry to me, but I tend to write short. There's no getting around it. I blame it on my years spent working radio news. (30 seconds is often a major news story. Sometimes we can expand it to one full minute.)
> 
> As for advertising shorts, there are a lot of Facebook pages that allow authors promote their work. I've never seen a length demand on any of them. I also would like to start a Facebook page just for promoting serials. Unfortunately I have to choose friends to ad. So if you want to send me your Facebook handle, I could include you. Or if you'd like to put up a page instead, let me know, and I'll PM you.
> 
> I think a place of our own here at Kboards is a wonderful idea.


How short is short?


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## RachelMeyers (Apr 17, 2014)

It is so encouraging and inspiring to read everyone's experiences.  I've been intrigued by serials for ages, and really want to have a go at writing one.  I have a bunch of ideas, but still in the planning stages.  I want to make sure I have a good balance of short threads to tie up in each instalment, and a weighty enough story that can arch overall.  Bookmarking this thread, because yay serials.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

A. S. Warwick said:


> I do want to do a proper serial at some point, but I'm still mulling over which one to do. I've got a number of stories ideas that would work. it's just a matter of choosing one. So far I'm trying to work out between an epic fantasy, a space opera or an urban fantasy.


I'll be going through something similar in the near future. I'm planning to close up my Infernum series with the fifth novella and after that, I want to start a second serial. Problem being I've got at least six ideas for potential serials. What I'm planning to do when I get to that point is to collect the random notes I've compiled for the different ideas and see which one I can generate the most content for and can get the most excited about.


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## DashaGLogan (Jan 30, 2014)

I just published my first episode in my new German serial and I have to say I like it better than novel writing, because of the smaller bits (15000), I am a much more disciplined writer like that, because I'm on a deadline for the next episode every six weeks or so, which is a good time to type that much of text and thoroughly editing it, without breaking into a sweat.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

All the enthusiasm here for serials is fantastic. It seems like everyone's having fun writing them -- that is so awesome! 

I've written novels for years (like, double digit years). I love writing, but with novels there's a certain level of... let's call it frustration. They're a lot of work, and sometimes there is little return. So I have to say that writing serials is immensely gratifying, and it's rekindled my love of writing.

Even if nothing else comes of this, the gratification is worth it!


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Great thread!

Last year I wrote a police procedural serial (ten episodes, stand-alone stories with a season long arc), but I haven't published it. I need to go back and change a few things. Hopefully it'll be out by early next year.

I'm also working on a few novels, and they're episodic like a serial. Meaning, each novel is essentially a collection of stories following the same characters, and there's a story arc that ties everything together.

Gaming is a huge part of my life, and some of my favorite games are ones you can "pick up and play." You can turn them on for 10 minutes, get in a quick match, and then move on with your day.

But these kind of games are also addicting. So you keep saying, "one more match." I want to recreate that feeling with my novels. Each chapter will provide the reader with a little story. There's nothing worse than reading a book for an hour and realizing that the plot has barely advanced. IMHO most novels have a filler problem. So I'm sticking to short chapters that move the main story forward, while giving the reader a look into the daily lives of my characters. Really, our lives are just a collection of stories.

Hopefully this rant made sense. I'm half-awake lol


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

You're doing so well! Congrats. And now that you haven't got a day job I'll look for great things.



Boyd said:


> 1. What genre is your serial in?
> Dystopian, post apoc prepper/homesteader type fiction
> 2. How long is each episode?
> 20-30k
> ...


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

As far as release schedules go, I plan on putting out a new "episode" weekly. Even if you don't do that, I think it's best to have more than one episode written before releasing the first one. You don't want long delays between episodes. Also new seasons may not be guaranteed. Like if the serial fails -- do you want to keep writing it?

I have five seasons planned for my police procedural, but each season comes to a satisfying end. So I can pull the plug at anytime. How many shows have been canceled after a crazy cliffhanger? I hate that! One of the things I loved about Dexter is that most of the seasons are self-contained stories. Sure, the writers lost their minds during the last two seasons, but the earlier ones were really tight. 

My motto: Answer the major questions, but always leave room for a sequel


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm in the middle of writing my first erotic romance serial as we speak and getting to release my first installment very soon. My question is, how / where is everybody promoting their serials?


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

1. What genre is your serial in?
Mystery/Thriller

2. How long is each episode?
Around five thousand words.

3. How many episodes per season?
I don't think of serials this way.

4. How many seasons?
Again, it doesn't apply to what I'm planning.

5. What price per episode?
99-cents

6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
I'm writing the serial with KU in mind. I think readers would be more likely to borrow this short a story rather than buy it.

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
Not actual cliff hangers, but I want to leave readers with questions.

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
I enjoy writing novels, but I love writing short stories. I thought if written in serials, they might sell. It's strictly an experiment.

And as an aside, I'm not fond of Facebook, but I like the pages where I can post my  promos. I also like my personal page. My friends and family hang out there.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

I finished my serial. Just had the first big promo last Friday (The Trucker's Wife in sig) and the buy-thru rate is pretty interesting... See below.

Genre: romantic suspense/adventure (steamy)
Length: 17k-25k
6 books total 
1st Permafree, 2-6 is $1.00
KDP Select
No cliffhangers...each book an adventure on the road (1 day per book), overall arch with HEA in book 6.
It was written as a serial with KU in mind.

Ran the Freebooksy promo on Friday. As of yesterday, there'd been 2548 downloads in the U.S. Only. On book 1. I'm not looking anywhere but U.S. for now on dl's or sales). Here's the breakdown. (I'm adding sales and borrows together, but it's a majority of borrows):

Book 1: 2548 free dl's 
Book 2: 39
Book 3: 30
Book 4: 27
Book 5: 27
Book 6: 38

So you can see, the last book is only 1 less buy/borrow than the first paid book (book 2). I realize these are short, but the first one is 25k, and a few of the others are too, so I don't think they are reading this fast. I think they are just downloading all at once. (I ran free days on book 4 and 5 a month or so ago so that's probably why those numbers are lower...I have no idea why I did that, it was stupid.)

I havent used social media to push because I mainly use my other name. I have a FB in this name but stopped using it in October, last year. I've only promo's with a few $5 ads (2 total?) in the past, and have kind of let things go stale while working on other pen name. Now that TTW is finished (March?), I'm getting up the confidence to try to relaunch it. (It was originally launched as erotica, and I pulled and re-wrote books 1-4 in January and February to market in romance).


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> I'm in the middle of writing my first erotic romance serial as we speak and getting to release my first installment very soon. My question is, how / where is everybody promoting their serials?


Bknights mostly.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Are KU users mostly women?

Does Sci-fi struggle on KU? (I have 3 sales and 3 KU borrow/sales this week)

The main character of my next story is a woman, maybe that would make a difference?


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I have an idea for a project that multiple authors can take part in, sort of a shared world. 

It would be a war serial, set several years in the future.


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## eleanorberesford (Dec 22, 2014)

Subscribing to this thread. 

When I finish my current series, I have a literary fiction historical standalone in the works, and I want something pulpier to work with at the same time, for my own benefit.

Considering something in the "survival games" genre (does it even have a real name? Battle Royale, The Long Walk, And Then There Were None, The Hunger Games, Gamers, Danganronpa, 999, etc etc) and end each installment with a death. I've had an insatiable hunger for that trope since I was a kid.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

eleanorberesford said:


> Considering something in the "survival games" genre (does it even have a real name? Battle Royale, The Long Walk, And Then There Were None, The Hunger Games, Gamers, Danganronpa, 999, etc etc) and end each installment with a death.


*
How about some military fiction set in a future, impoverished world? I was considering proposing sort of a "shared world" type thing where we could all write stories from the perspective of a soldier in a different army/front. EMP's and stuff have made most of the advanced technology useless, there are like 8 different sides in the war and its been bogged down after 6 years. No country can even afford to design or build something new or big.*


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> I hope this thread continues. It's nice to read about everyone's success, plans and lessons learned.
> 
> Good luck everyone!


Yes, well after my current projects are done I am going to do something and it might be this military thing. Not being a veteran, I am going to search high and low for one for beta reader and chief critic.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> Bknights mostly.


Thanks.


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## Windvein (Sep 26, 2012)

(I should be working on my serial.)

1. What genre is your serial in? 
YA contemporary. Titled: My Demon. I have five episodes out currently. I publish once a month.

2. How long is each episode? 
10K-20K

3. How many episodes per season?
Right now, I'm working on the first season and I think it will be 10 episodes long. I have a rough idea for another but that would be shorter like maybe 6 eps.

4. How many seasons?
No idea.

5. What price per episode?
$0.99

6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
KDP Select. I've never had anything in Select and I'd heard that serials did well with KU. I wanted to give it a try.

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
No cliffhangers. I'm probably a terrible serial writer. Each episode covers 2 days in the protagonist's life. That's it. Each episode starts with her getting up or what have you and ends with her going to bed.

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
I wanted to develop better discipline and writing a serial will definitely do that. Also, I wanted to try a more slice of life story and I thought a serial would be a better fit for that type of story. 

Once this season is over, I plan to bundle and publish wide. I'm very curious to see how that will go over. I feel that many of my readers may be holding off trying it out until it is completed and bundled. 

One other thing that I tried out and that runs counter to encouraging KU borrows is posting every episode for pre-order. I think I may retain more readers though by having a link to the pre-order for every new episode. 

Do other do pre-orders? Do you think it helps retain readers and/or cannibalize KU borrows?


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

carinasanfey said:


> I've had to put the first episode of 'Taken' (Fairy Fort, third in my sig) up a wee bit early in order to schedule a promo (promo thread coming soon), but episodes 2-10 will still come out on Sunday as planned. At least having it up early has been kind of a dry run for keywords etc, so I know my keywords will get me into the categories I'm aiming for.
> 
> (Edited because I apparently can't count.)


Ooh, what a lovely cover!  I'm super excited for you, releasing so many at once -- that is awesome! I'll be looking for your promo thread to follow.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

How great to see this thread! I'm totally going to answer the questions in a minute



S.W. Vaughn said:


> Hey, quick question about the bolded bit... do the algos work better with releases every 2 weeks? Because if that's the case, I'll definitely make that my schedule...


What I meant by releasing every two weeks to make better use of the Amazon algo's was that Amazon promote each episode for one month as a "new release" so the further apart they are the longer you stay on the new release list. So the best way to make use of the algos is to release every 30 days on the dot. But as we all know, serial readers require a faster release schedule than other types so that's why once every two weeks is quite a popular choice. But I might just say sod the algo's and release weekly. Not decided yet.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

*I'm adding a couple of questions if y'all don't mind answering them too *
1. What genre is your serial in?
2. How long is each episode?
3. How many episodes per season?
4. How many seasons?
5. What price per episode?
6. KDP Select or diversify and why?
7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why?
8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels?
9. When are you releasing and why?
10. Are you doing the same cover, similar covers, a set of matching covers?
11. New pen name for this?

Answers:
1. PNR
2. 7 -10 k
3. 10
4. Depends how popular it is
5. 0.99
6. I am writing a serial to take advantage of KU and for no other reason! Everything else I write goes wide.
7. I hope to be able to write cliff hangers, but I'm not very good at them. The neat freak in me likes to wrap everything up neatly with a happy ending.
8. I've been thinking about this since last summer when KU hit, but had too many other things in waiting - actually I still do!
9. I've decided to wait and start releasing around end of November, that way I can hopefully build up some momentum just in time for the Christmas and January surge.
10. I'm strongly debating the cover thing, still undecided, probably going to go with one design and use different colours.
11. I've thought long and hard about whether to use this name or start a new one. I had originally intended it to be bit more mature than my usual stuff, but then I swing the other way and think I would be mad to start a new name and why not just capitalise on the fact it would keep this name high in the rankings and give the readers my other work to find as well. It does mean I would have to tone down any sex or swearing to nil, but it could work... I don't know. What would you advise?


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Evenstar said:


> What I meant by releasing every two weeks to make better use of the Amazon algo's was that Amazon promote each episode for one month as a "new release" so the further apart they are the longer you stay on the new release list. So the best way to make use of the algos is to release every 30 days on the dot. But as we all know, serial readers require a faster release schedule than other types so that's why once every two weeks is quite a popular choice. But I might just say sod the algo's and release weekly. Not decided yet.


Ah, thank you! That definitely makes sense. 

I think I'm going to stick to two weeks, at least for now... want to make sure I can stay on schedule. And if it goes well, maybe I'll move to weekly. I mean, they can't complain about more frequent releases, right? But they would probably be upset if it was the other way round.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Evenstar said:


> 9. When are you releasing and why?
> 10. Are you doing the same cover, similar covers, a set of matching covers?
> 11. New pen name for this?


9. I launched the first season at the end of January and did monthly releases for the first season. I'm doing season two in September and I'll be releasing every two weeks. The way my schedule is working at the moment, I'm going to do a season of the serial, then release new novellas in my other two series, and then back to the serial. I've got two more novellas planned in my Infernum series so when I'm done with those, I'll launch a new series, most-likely also a serial as opposed to another novella series.

10. At the moment, same covers with different text and colors. My artist gives me the cover as a layered PSD file, so I just changed the color of the background for the different episodes. I might do something different in the future when I have more money to invest but that's what I'm sticking to for the moment. Then for the season compilation, I used a box set image.

11. Nope, same name. So far I haven't used a pen name since all my stuff falls within pulpy action/adventure.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

carinasanfey said:


> Thank you! It's a premade by Leanne Edwards.
> 
> 'Fairy Fort' is maintaining a pretty nice ranking in the UK store so far:
> 
> ...


Nice!!  And best of luck for tomorrow... I hope you get a sales landslide. 

Also, in case I forgot to mention, your kitties are super adorable! *makes kissy faces at them*


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## Windvein (Sep 26, 2012)

9. When are you releasing and why?
Releasing currently at first of the month. I started releasing in Feb. I posted the pre-order Jan. 1stish. Doing a serial was New Year's resolution.

10. Are you doing the same cover, similar covers, a set of matching covers?
I'm currently using the same cover, but I think I'll switch it up with the next episode. It'll be the same model.

11. New pen name for this?
Nope. The serial is close enough to my previous work that I thought my current readers would be interested.

I'm planning to have the first episode free this Sunday-Tuesday. I've never done any free days with it. I don't have any outside promotion lined up. I'm planning only to post to my social media accounts, maybe boost the post on Facebook for a few bucks. We'll see how it goes. 

@carinasanfey - I hope posting all those episodes go smoothly. I'll be curious to know how it goes for you.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

I write a serial! I can't wait to read the thread tomorrow (watching The Hobbit for the first time now) and get some tips.

I've started a spin off serial from my serial, Avoidables. It's the same universe so using similar covers, but have something on there to represent the different serial. Shorter episodes all at 0.99p. 5 episodes instead of 6.

I like writing the shorter work. It's good to see so many others doing the same.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2015)

Well my first full week is officially over. I did learn one thing today... When linking the Kindle edition and paperback edition the reviews will disappear for about 48 hours. Hoping they come back in time for my promo with bknights on Tuesday. 

Next part of my serial will be out June 25th. Hoping to publish twice a month, sometimes three times. Novels published the other weeks. Hoping it's all a snowball effect! 

Still haven't had more than 2 borrows a day on KU so I am lowering the price for a week. Hoping the promo helps!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

There was a thread today on preorders which I thought was very relevant to us, but I'm typing this on my kindle so I can't manage to insert the link


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Evenstar said:


> There was a thread today on preorders which I thought was very relevant to us, but I'm typing this on my kindle so I can't manage to insert the link


I saw that one, and I agree it's relevant.  Here's the link: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,216340.0.html


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

I just finished putting out part 6 of my 6 part PNR serial.  I've done no promo for it, and it's making me a little money. This is a rewritten serial from two other older books that didn't sell at all. So I'm happy so far with the results.

My Q to the others who have recently put out a serial in KU, have the sales plummeted on your other books not in KU?  Mine have, and for the life of me I can't figure out why.  It's not the usual summertime slump...it's really drastic.

Thoughts?


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## Windvein (Sep 26, 2012)

Vivi_Anna said:


> My Q to the others who have recently put out a serial in KU, have the sales plummeted on your other books not in KU? Mine have, and for the life of me I can't figure out why. It's not the usual summertime slump...it's really drastic.
> 
> Thoughts?


My sales took a major dip when KU started and I had nothing in KU. (Part of the reason I started a serial. If you can't beat'em...) I think there are a lot of readers who are happy to not spend money on book purchases and just read what's available in KU, sorta like me and Prime videos. I'll watch all sorts of movies in Amazon Prime but if I'm recommended a movie not in Prime, even if it looks really interesting, I move on.

I don't want to jinx it, but I think my sales are starting to recover some now. I don't do much promotion. I don't know why your sales would dip with your other books due to the serial. I would expect the opposite frankly. I would think you'd get some influx of new readers discovering your work through KU and checking out your backlist. Hope things improve for you!


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Anyone have any knowledge of how well serials do on non-Amazon channels like Barnes & Noble, Google etc? Is it worth it to even attempt to go that route or is Amazon KU the best best? 

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't write serials. But I just read one this weekend. I started yesterday and read the first 3 books in this serial and this morning I read the last 3. As soon as I finished , I clicked the link to read the next one. All are in KU. 

I think a lot of readers read serials this way. Has anyone thought of releasing two or three episodes at the same time? To encourage this kind of binge reading? Or to release a day or two apart? 

As a reader, I like immediate gratification. I don't think I'd want to wait two weeks or longer for the next installment. I recently read one of MS Parker's serials, and those released weekly, which was better, but to this reader, daily or every few days would have been even better.

What about writing them all ahead and then releasing every day or two or in batches?  Just a thought. I haven't seen anyone do this yet, but as a reader, I would love it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> Anyone have any knowledge of how well serials do on non-Amazon channels like Barnes & Noble, Google etc? Is it worth it to even attempt to go that route or is Amazon KU the best best?


My gut instinct is that season compilations would do better on the other platforms because customers are used to paying a higher price there and also because the higher prices mean more opportunities for the merchandisers there to take notice of them. Kobo's Mark Lefebreve (sp?) has said numerous times on several podcasts that they're more interested in promoting a higher-priced book than a cheaper one. But there may also be a market for the individual episodes, too. SPP recently had someone on from Barnes & Noble who said they're starting to see people having success with serials on Nook. Plus when you go wide (and have a compilation out), you can make the first episode permafree and include a note in the back that draws a comparison between the price of the season compilation and the price of the individual episodes.

As I said before, I haven't really found KU to be all that beneficial for serials. I'm going wide in August. The next season will also be in KU first during the initial run, but once the season compilation is ready for release, I'll go wide then as well.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

I am still working through this thread but saw Andrea P's "answer these questions"

Good stuff!  Exactly what I was curious about.

While I still have to work through the rest of the thread I can see that I now should modify what I was working on.

I will post details later as I need to read, my kids keep coming over to talk to me and lunch is due soon.....


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> My gut instinct is that season compilations would do better on the other platforms because customers are used to paying a higher price there and also because the higher prices mean more opportunities for the merchandisers there to take notice of them. Kobo's Mark Lefebreve (sp?) has said numerous times on several podcasts that they're more interested in promoting a higher-priced book than a cheaper one. But there may also be a market for the individual episodes, too. SPP recently had someone on from Barnes & Noble who said they're starting to see people having success with serials on Nook. Plus when you go wide (and have a compilation out), you can make the first episode permafree and include a note in the back that draws a comparison between the price of the season compilation and the price of the individual episodes.
> 
> As I said before, I haven't really found KU to be all that beneficial for serials. I'm going wide in August. The next season will also be in KU first during the initial run, but once the season compilation is ready for release, I'll go wide then as well.


Thanks for the insight. I've been grappling with which route to go for my soon to be released serial but keep leaning toward a wide release. Yet I'm still feeling unsure. Its good to get a sense of what others are doing / planning for their serials.

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

carinasanfey said:


> As mentioned above, I'm releasing an entire ten-episode serial in one go today.


Oooh, good luck! Will look forward to your updates. Your cover is gorgeous!


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm getting ready to release a 12 part serial, and was considering dropping them all at once, but my fear is that buyers, not those in KU, will be angry that it's not all in one collection.  Although I am going to drop the whole collection, just not put it in KU.

Thoughts on this?  I was going to release two a week, instead of dropping the whole thing...


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

While I understand why a reader would want you to drop the whole serial, I don't think it's a good plan. If it takes you three months to write a serial and you drop it all at once, how do you plan to keep it up in the ranks while you spend the next three months writing the next one? Because that 30 day cliff will come and you won't have anything for another 60 days. 

If you don't have a huge fan base going into it you won't get the burst for each release from a newsletter to move higher up in the ranks. I watched my serial release increase in rank each time I put a new one out. If I had dropped the whole thing last December I would have had a short burst of money and then spent time and energy trying to find a way to keep visible until the next one was ready. As it is now, with each release that climbs higher in the ranks I am discovered by new people that find the first one to work their way through to wherever I am. And then, they sign up for my newsletter to be reminded to get the next installment.


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## Jasone (Mar 28, 2015)

If you had the first two episodes done and wanted to free promo the first episode, would you do the second one on pre-order or just release it at the same time as the first?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Personally, assuming your installments are going to be 99 cents, I'd never do a preorder. You get so much more for a borrow and preorders are only sales. I'd put the first one out, give it a couple days and then follow up with the second one to have it available on the first day of the promo. 

But since you only gave us two choices - Release them both at the same time


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2015)

I agree with Violet. Someone else on this thread compared it to hitting a balloon before it hits the ground. I think publishing every 2 weeks is the smartest way. (Or weekly) But doing it Netflix style will only work really well short term. Not that I am anyone to listen to being that I'm just starting out, but it makes sense.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

VioletVaughn said:


> Personally, assuming your installments are going to be 99 cents, I'd never do a preorder. You get so much more for a borrow and preorders are only sales. I'd put the first one out, give it a couple days and then follow up with the second one to have it available on the first day of the promo.
> 
> But since you only gave us two choices - Release them both at the same time


I think pre-orders are beneficial because it gives you that link right away to put in the previous book. At least for those of us who are releasing weekly or bi-weekly.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

carinasanfey said:


> As someone who can't go to bed tonight until those nine 'in review' titles change to 'publishing' and get ASINs, I hear ya.


And you get the added hair-pulling stress motivation of that pre-order deadline.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Use redirects. I set up a site for them, installed a wordpress plug in and can put a link in a book that will never have to be changed. I can change it on the back end. So for my second part of a serial I have a teaser line and Part 2 hyperlinked to violetvaughnlinks. com/CbtB2 Before the part is published it links to my mailing list. When it's published I change the link to redirect to the new part.

I found a blog that tells you how to do it. https://managewp.com/the-best-way-to-set-up-redirects-in-your-wordpress-blog


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

does anyone think a military serial could find a decent audience these day.. I had an idea for one


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

geronl said:


> does anyone think a military serial could find a decent audience these day.. I had an idea for one


I don't personally know of any military serials. There is an audience for that kind of stuff. I know some short military fiction has done well, so don't see why a serial couldn't also work. Make sure you do your research, though. Fans of that genre really know their stuff and they expect the writers to know as well.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I don't personally know of any military serials. There is an audience for that kind of stuff. I know some short military fiction has done well, so don't see why a serial couldn't also work. Make sure you do your research, though. Fans of that genre really know their stuff and they expect the writers to know as well.


That is just it, when I am ready I don't want to do it alone. I want to find someone who knows their stuff as a beta reader or adviser or co-author or something. I also had the idea that it could be a "shared world" with some other writers.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

_That is just it, when I am ready I don't want to do it alone. I want to find someone who knows their stuff as a beta reader or adviser or co-author or something. I also had the idea that it could be a "shared world" with some other writers._

Hey Geron I am working on a serial of military sf. I was going to do 12-13 episodes total but am now thinking about doing the season thing for 2-3 seasons as I can flesh out what I am doing.

what were your thoughts on the multi story idea you have?
I am still writing oh 4? 5? different items now along with real estate. So I am not published for any of the sf stuff yet and I could be a crummy author.

But run the ideas by me as I love the idea of doing shorter. Maybe I can work in your world OR with 26 years in (Canadian though) I can proof.

Let me know.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Boyd said:


> Well guys n gals, today wasn't a productive day but I did do a ton of non-writing related things. I got my narrator picked out for audible, sent the offer and got it accepted today  I was so excited. Tomorrow is going to be a writing day. How's everyone doing?


1800 words today on season 2 episode 3 of Vanguard. Hopefully will finish tomorrow. After that, will take a quick break from the serial because I've got to write a short story for an anthology I got an invitation for.



carinasanfey said:


> I wasn't able to read your post because I was too mesmerised by the dancing Darth Vader. Sorry.


I find Boyd's avatar to be a massive source of time-suck for me.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

tomgermann said:


> But run the ideas by me as I love the idea of doing shorter. Maybe I can work in your world OR with 26 years in (Canadian though) I can proof.
> 
> Let me know.


Here or in a private message?


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

whatever works.  

If this worked out it would be a longer time to get everything done right.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I did over 2k but it was for the blog story not the WIP


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

It's barely an idea right now. It is set about 9 years in the future in a near-dystopian world where there is basically war between every bloc one could think of, I was thinking 8, but the alliance shift a lot. The world is impoverished, a lot of technology has been rendered useless by EMP's and radiation, countries have shot satellites out of the sky and a lot of military equipment is just broken down and there is no money to fix them or build new ones.

A war that was set off by the destruction of major capitol cities around the world in nuclear decapitation strikes, including DC. The US economy has collapsed along with its government. International rivalries everywhere have broken out into hostilities, countries invading other countries, even the southern US is in a fight with those who want Reconquista, those who want to seceded from the dying union and every other kind of ethnic and nationalist sentiment. 

I was thinking that each issue of the serial could focus on a soldier or his company from a different army and country in a different theater of battle.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

If you're going to focus on different characters, instead of devoting each episode to one soldier or company, I would tell a little bit about each in every episode. Look at shows like Sense8, Orange is the New Black, or Game of Thrones and how they alternate between different characters. Pay attention to how the episodes are cut together, too. See how the different stories connect to each other in each episode and how the episode rises and falls. 

I think structure's very important in a serial. Even more so when it's an ensemble serial.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2015)

I think a military serial could be really awesome. One of my favorite books in life is The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien. I would read the heck out of a serial that followed a different soldier over an entire season of a particular war. I also like the idea of something futuristic in that kind of realm. So much potential if done right! I know a lot of people who would love something like that.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

good points

I don't know much about serials and this is still pre-born


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I was thinking we could even get attention with "ads" like this posted around. It would have a logo (whatever it turned out to be) and a link of course.


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## nem2 (Mar 27, 2015)

So great to see so many diff authors putting up their wares and/or ideas here. Really nice to see the sheer talent and numbers that is out there. I'm rooting for you all (while furiously scribbling down my own series). 

Without wishing to offend any sensibilities or hijacking the thread, I was wondering if any of you are post-apocalyptic serial writers who have dealt with either vampires (non-sparkly or pretty, please) or plague/disease/virus as your main theme? It can even be a combination of the two.

The reader in me is feeling quite voracious for those kinds of books, so I would love to pick them up from my fellow authors and support them the best I can. 

Also: geronl, interesting idea! Very intriguing!


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> If you're going to focus on different characters, instead of devoting each episode to one soldier or company, I would tell a little bit about each in every episode. Look at shows like Sense8, Orange is the New Black, or Game of Thrones and how they alternate between different characters. Pay attention to how the episodes are cut together, too. See how the different stories connect to each other in each episode and how the episode rises and falls.
> 
> I think structure's very important in a serial. Even more so when it's an ensemble serial.


I completely agree with this. In my serial each episode is told from a different person's POV. It's first person too. I try to make sure that each episode finishes with the conclusion of that particular characters struggle. Except in episode 1, but the second character is the first's best friend, so he tells the story from his POV alongside what's going on with him.

I'm thinking of re-writing Avoidables 1 because it was my first ever serial episode and I feel it could probably do with some more world building. (My serial is a dystopian romance.)

NB: I also wanted to say that KU is where I'm selling my episodes of Avoidables. It's doing a lot better in the UK than America. which is strange because it didn't start out that way.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

PamelaKelley said:


> I don't write serials. But I just read one this weekend. I started yesterday and read the first 3 books in this serial and this morning I read the last 3. As soon as I finished , I clicked the link to read the next one. All are in KU.
> 
> I think a lot of readers read serials this way. Has anyone thought of releasing two or three episodes at the same time? To encourage this kind of binge reading? Or to release a day or two apart?
> 
> ...


I have noticed that my sales didn't start to really come in until all my episodes were released. Like you say, I get sales of the episodes one after the other. If someone goes onto book 2 after reading the permafree, they'll go on to get the rest of them straight away. I'm going to release my next serial in batches for that reason. 

Question Answers:

1. What genre is your serial in? - Dystopian Romance
2. How long is each episode? - 25k (10k for the spin off serial)
3. How many episodes per season? - 6 (5 for the spin off)
4. How many seasons? - Only 1 so far. Working on my novel series, but thinking of taking a break from that soon and getting another Avoidables season out. Also doing a shorter spin off serial from Avoidables.
5. What price per episode? - 1st - Permafree. 2nd - .99 3rd - 1.99 4,5,6 - 2.99 (.99 for the spin of serial)
6. KDP Select or diversify and why? - Select - I tried all for 6 months but it didn't pick up, so put it in select.
7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why? - Always - I like to give the readers something to look forward to. Just like in a TV show.
8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels? - Just happened naturally when I tried to write a short story.
9. When are you releasing and why? - I released the first lot once a month. It was too far apart. I would now try to do in batches every week.
10. Are you doing the same cover, similar covers, a set of matching covers? - Same theme but different faces.
11. New pen name for this? - No, can't keep up with my own name lol


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Rachel, were you part of the Meet The Serial Killers Facebook event a few months ago?


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> Rachel, were you part of the Meet The Serial Killers Facebook event a few months ago?


Hi Perry, yes I was! That was great fun. Did you join in?


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Boyd said:


> Well guys n gals, today wasn't a productive day but I did do a ton of non-writing related things. I got my narrator picked out for audible, sent the offer and got it accepted today  I was so excited. Tomorrow is going to be a writing day. How's everyone doing?


Awesome! Audio is very exciting -- congratulations! 

I finished episode 2 of my serial on Sunday, writing about 5K words Saturday and 6K words Sunday. Yay! I'm excited!



carinasanfey said:


> As someone who can't go to bed tonight until those nine 'in review' titles change to 'publishing' and get ASINs, I hear ya.


Did you make it, then?


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

As I plod along toward completing the first installment of my serial all I can say is it's shaping up to be quite a juicy one. 



1. What genre is your serial in? - erotic romance / suspense

2. How long is each episode? - 20K

3. How many episodes per season? - 

4. How many seasons? - 4 parts

5. What price per episode? - $2.99  to start but will make part one $0.99 once all the installments have been released.

6. KDP Select or diversify and why? - still undecided and it's driving me nuts.   But I'm leaning toward select...we'll see. 

7. Cliffhangers with episodes or seasons or not and why? - Definitely going with cliffhangers. I'm treating my serial like a soap opera

8. Why did you decide to write in episodes instead of novels? - Didn't originally set out to make it a serial, actually had it mapped out as a series of novels, but after I started writing it, it started taking shape as a serial, so I went with it.

9. When are you releasing and why? - Haven't released my first installment, will be releasing it in early July. Planning to release them two-weeks apart which means I'm going to be really busy writing subsequent parts to stick to this plan

10. Are you doing the same cover - Covers are already complete. NOt doing the same cover but using images of the same model with different poses on each on, covers have different titles but follow a themed titled format

11. New pen name for this? - Yes, shiny, brand new pen name. 


I'm excited, yet extremely nervous at the same time. I've been flirting with the idea of doing a serial for about a year and a half now and I'm finally doing it. It's the cliffhangers that have me the most frightened. I've seen and heard some horror stories about reviews, but am hoping that 20,000-word installments will be the sweet spot and keep the majority of the readers happy.EEK!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

carinasanfey said:


> Eight of them are still in review! *tantrum* Eventually I had to go to bed because, well, sleep. Waiting impatiently while I update the back matter for my fifty cat titles... *bangs head off wall*


ARGH. Amazon... always super fast when you don't really care, and super slow when you do.  Good luck, I hope they flip into published soon!


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## amdonehere (May 1, 2015)

This is my first post here ever. I've been lurking because I'm still working on my WIP and don't feel ready to participate in discussion yet but this thread and topic is very relevant to me so I'm diving in (even though I don't feel quite ready).

I actually discovered this thead by accident because I thought "serial" means a multi-volume story. But this may turn out to be an even more viable option for me. I'm writing a WIP divided into 4 books. I'm on Book 4 now.

My questions:

1. Initially i was going to publish Book 1 as a perma-free, and launch it at the same time as Book 2. But now I wonder if I can publish Book 1 as a weekly or bi-weekly serial. I was planning to do that anyway on Wattpad to build an audience before launching on Amazon, but now it seems like I may not need to do Wattpad even. Now if I launch Book 1 as a serial, but then later make it a perma-free, will the readers be upset because they paid for Book 1 reading it as a serial? What if it was in KU, in which case it might feel like they didn't directly pay for my 1 book?

2.I've read every post on this thread, but I cant tell from all you great writers' signatures which of your story is a serial. Can you provide a link and I can check out your serial? And see how its done?

Thank you all VERY much in advance.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Hi Perry, yes I was! That was great fun. Did you join in?


Yeah, I was part of it, too! Thought I recognized your covers and series title!



AlexaKang said:


> I actually discovered this thead by accident because I thought "serial" means a multi-volume story. But this may turn out to be an even more viable option for me. I'm writing a WIP divided into 4 books. I'm on Book 4 now.


When you say, "divided into four books," does that mean that you've taken a novel and divided it into four parts? If so, then IMO, that's not really a serial. Now if each of those four parts has a beginning, middle, and end, then that's a different story and it could qualify as a serial. With serials, you have a bit of an uphill climb because there have been some who have just tried to "serialize" their novel by chopping it up and selling each chapter or so as an episode. That's led to some very vocal readers believing that all serials are just chopped up novels.

If your WIP is a novel, you'll probably have a better reception releasing it as a novel (Wattpad is a different story because that's a free platform). I love serials, but I only recommend writing a serial if that's a format you feel suits your story.



AlexaKang said:


> 1. Initially i was going to publish Book 1 as a perma-free, and launch it at the same time as Book 2. But now I wonder if I can publish Book 1 as a weekly or bi-weekly serial. I was planning to do that anyway on Wattpad to build an audience before launching on Amazon, but now it seems like I may not need to do Wattpad even. Now if I launch Book 1 as a serial, but then later make it a perma-free, will the readers be upset because they paid for Book 1 reading it as a serial? What if it was in KU, in which case it might feel like they didn't directly pay for my 1 book?


I don't see that being a problem. Authors do this kind of thing all the time. I've got two novella series and the first books in each were paid only. But I recently made them permafree now that I've got the third books in both coming out. When my serial goes wide in August, I'll also make the first episode permafree.

If someone does complain, then they'll likely be the minority. What I would do in that situation (and this isn't something you have to do, just what I would do if it were me receiving a complaint) is just say, "Sorry you missed out on the promotion. Let me know what episode you haven't read yet and I'll give it to you for free." They walk away with a free episode and will probably have a higher opinion of you.



AlexaKang said:


> 2.I've read every post on this thread, but I cant tell from all you great writers' signatures which of your story is a serial. Can you provide a link and I can check out your serial? And see how its done?


Sure thing. My serial is called Vanguard: A Superhero Serial. Here's the first episode:


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## amdonehere (May 1, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> When you say, "divided into four books," does that mean that you've taken a novel and divided it into four parts? If so, then IMO, that's not really a serial. Now if each of those four parts has a beginning, middle, and end, then that's a different story and it could qualify as a serial. With serials, you have a bit of an uphill climb because there have been some who have just tried to "serialize" their novel by chopping it up and selling each chapter or so as an episode. That's led to some very vocal readers believing that all serials are just chopped up novels.
> 
> If your WIP is a novel, you'll probably have a better reception releasing it as a novel (Wattpad is a different story because that's a free platform). I love serials, but I only recommend writing a serial if that's a format you feel suits your story.


Hi Perry,

What I mean is, I have one single story that is so long it's divided into 4 novel length books. I guess in serial terminology you can say I have 4 seasons. I didn't start out thinking it would be this long. Then I thought it would become a trilogy, but now it's certain that it will be 4 books. Each will be 70K words.

However, I wrote it in episodic format because when I started, I wasn't sure I had intention to publish. Each "episode" is about 7000-10K long (for this reason I've been wondering how in the world I'll be re-formatting them into shorter chapters, but I digress.) It's posted on a restricted website and I got a small audience that is following it on episodic basis. They're now officially my beta readers because of that. (The obscurity is only due to the nature of the subject matter of the website, not because my story is obscure or that the topic of my story is obscure.) A couple of my audience have mentioned that they feel like they are watching a TV mini-series or a film when they read my story.

So I wonder if maybe I can just publish the first book in serial format like how I initially posted it for my current audience.

But you may be right that it can be deemed as a novel chopped up. Problem is that, my whole story will be chopped up anyway because it's just too long to be 1 novel.

ETA: to clarify, although my WIP is not YA, the way it's divided is like Twilight and Hunger Games. Each book is a continuation of the story but does move on to a different stage of the story.

But you may be right, maybe serial is not what my WIP should be. Also apology for typos in my post. I'm typing on my iPad and it's a bit tough.


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## nem2 (Mar 27, 2015)

Boyd, so it is! Many thanks!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

AlexaKang said:


> Hi Perry,
> 
> What I mean is, I have one single story that is so long it's divided into 4 novel length books. I guess in serial terminology you can say I have 4 seasons. I didn't start out thinking it would be this long. Then I thought it would become a trilogy, but now it's certain that it will be 4 books. Each will be 70K words.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a series not a serial.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

carinasanfey said:


> Aaaaaand it looks like the days of KU being a good thing for serial writers are over.
> 
> See this thread if you don't know what I'm on about: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,216478.0.html


Why?


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## amdonehere (May 1, 2015)

Evenstar said:


> Sounds like a series not a serial.


I'm a bit ignorant on this. What is the difference between a series and a serial? Wouldn't a serial with cliff hanger be just like a series then?


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

carinasanfey said:


> Aaaaaand it looks like the days of KU being a good thing for serial writers are over.
> 
> See this thread if you don't know what I'm on about: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,216478.0.html


...I hate everything.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Cliffhanger question: For those who use cliffhangers, when you end an installment with a cliffhanger, how are most of you proceeding with the next installment? Is it best to pick up right where you left off in the cliffhanger in the previous installment, or do you carry on as though some time (whether days or weeks) has passed in the characters lives since the previous cliffhanger?  

I remember at the height of my daily soap opera addiction some fifteen to twenty years ago I would hang on with baited breath after those cliffhangers on Fridays until the show resumed again on Monday to see what would happen next. The soaps always pick up right where they left off with a cliffhanger.  I'm leaning toward this as it seems like the most logical way to go about kicking off the subsequent installments, but am wondering from all you serial experts is this generally preferred by readers?


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## delly_xo (Oct 29, 2014)

carinasanfey said:


> Yes.
> 
> Am now in the process of bundling groups of ten episodes into novels and dispensing with serials altogether for my main name. It's gonna be a long night...
> 
> Dunno what to do about my cat serials. I wrote those specifically for KU, and there's no way they'll work outside of it.


They completely changed it. For some reason I was surprised to see they got rid of the 10% qualifying borrow too! Now, it's based on the amount of the book read...interesting.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

Fictionista said:


> Cliffhanger question: For those who use cliffhangers, when you end an installment with a cliffhanger, how are most of you proceeding with the next installment? Is it best to pick up right where you left off in the cliffhanger in the previous installment, or do you carry on as though some time (whether days or weeks) has passed in the characters lives since the previous cliffhanger?
> 
> I remember at the height of my daily soap opera addiction some fifteen to twenty years ago I would hang on with baited breath after those cliffhangers on Fridays until the show resumed again on Monday to see what would happen next. The soaps always pick up right where they left off with a cliffhanger. I'm leaning toward this as it seems like the most logical way to go about kicking off the subsequent installments, but am wondering from all you serial experts is this generally preferred by readers?


I think it depends on the nature of the cliffhanger.

For mine, I'm picking up exactly where I left off, but I can envision some cliffhangers where it would be better to pick up after some time had passed.

For instance, if your episode ended with the start of a nuclear war, it might make sense for the next installment to pick up a few days or weeks later.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Jacob Stanley said:


> I think it depends on the nature of the cliffhanger.
> 
> For mine, I'm picking up exactly where I left off, but I can envision some cliffhangers where it would be better to pick up after some time had passed.
> 
> For instance, if your episode ended with the start of a nuclear war, it might make sense for the next installment to pick up a few days or weeks later.


That makes sense. Thanks. I suppose I'll probably end up with a combination of the two during my four-part serial. One installment carrying right on after a cliffhanger and another installment with some days or weeks passed in between. I suppose I'll know when I get there and end up doing whatever feels right.


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## YoMama (Jan 27, 2015)

All I have to do now is publish the next three month's worth of serials before July 1.  No problemo


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## sugarhit (Feb 9, 2015)

I'm just curious, what makes a serial it's own beast? I'm still a bit confused by what I've read elsewhere differentiates a series released a section at a time vs. a serial novel.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

A series includes books that each have their own complete story and often use the same world and character but with different goals.

A serial is more like a television series, with each episode having a full story but advancing the overall story a little more until the "season finale" where everything gets wound up.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

MyraScott said:


> A series includes books that each have their own complete story and often use the same world and character but with different goals.
> 
> A serial is more like a television series, with each episode having a full story but advancing the overall story a little more until the "season finale" where everything gets wound up.


Also, a serial generally means shorter parts, certainly no longer than novella length.

Otherwise you could call George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series a serial since each part ends in a major cliffhanger.

A serial in the traditional sense has always been about bite-sized pieces of story.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

carinasanfey said:


> Yes.
> 
> Am now in the process of bundling groups of ten episodes into novels and dispensing with serials altogether for my main name. It's gonna be a long night...
> 
> Dunno what to do about my cat serials. I wrote those specifically for KU, and there's no way they'll work outside of it.


OH! Can I say a word that rhymes with "Chit" about the proposed changes. I am NOT happy. I'm going to put my serial on a back burner then.* You can officially count me out now.* Just after I spent a bomb on ten new covers. But I was writing it to take advantage of KU. I'm now going to readjust my outline and make it a novel, and it WONT be going into KU.

Carina, I disagree about your cat serials, they could totally be transferred into being a book each. Pull the whole lot from KU and then make each episode into a chapter of the book. People love "life of a cat" books. My mum doesnt read on a kindle but she adores those kinds of books, so if you also did a paperback of all the combined stories then you definitely have one sale for each book right here


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

did they change that link or just delete it re the changes at amazon?
keeps coming up as a bad link for me.....


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## sugarhit (Feb 9, 2015)

MyraScott said:


> A series includes books that each have their own complete story and often use the same world and character but with different goals.
> 
> A serial is more like a television series, with each episode having a full story but advancing the overall story a little more until the "season finale" where everything gets wound up.


Thanks. Long term, I'm thinking of a 'soap opera' esque piece that would go over several 'seasons' inspired by telenovelas, Melrose Place and the show Empire as a model. Maybe it's more of a serial than I think. I'll just stalk this thread until I get to that point in time, thanks.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Evenstar said:


> OH! Can I say a word that rhymes with "Chit" about the proposed changes. I am NOT happy. I'm going to put my serial on a back burner then.* You can officially count me out now.* Just after I spent a bomb on ten new covers. But I was writing it to take advantage of KU. I'm now going to readjust my outline and make it a novel, and it WONT be going into KU.


Yup I hear you, just finished getting 12 covers for a 12 part serial, 3 covers for a 3 part serial, and plotting and planning out 30 more short stories. Now I totally have to revamp my entire career strategy...

We knew Zon would respond to the serial issue eventually... it just completely and utterly sucks, because there are so many unknown variables. If there was a set way they were going to pay, then you could adjust. Instead of a 12 part serial, I could do a 4 part or 3 part... at 100 pages each, and knowing that I could make more money this way, then the other way. But you don't know.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Boyd said:


> With the changes to KU, I think I'm going to write serials even more than I was before. I know this can potentially hurt folks, but so far even my worst estimate/guess is more of a raise than the original KU payout. For me, I'm going full steam ahead.
> 
> Has the KU changes worried you?


The link is bad for me too. Are we sure it was genuine?


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Boyd said:


> With the changes to KU, I think I'm going to write serials even more than I was before. I know this can potentially hurt folks, but so far even my worst estimate/guess is more of a raise than the original KU payout. For me, I'm going full steam ahead.


It's really too early to say. Boyd could be 100% right


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Boyd said:


> With the changes to KU, I think I'm going to write serials even more than I was before. I know this can potentially hurt folks, but so far even my worst estimate/guess is more of a raise than the original KU payout. For me, I'm going full steam ahead.
> 
> Has the KU changes worried you?


Yeah you could be completely right. I think the key now is to find the page sweet spot. Maybe it's 50... we won't know I guess until we experiment once again.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

ETA: Never mind, still hate everything.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Pros and Cons of new payout to serials: (please add your own)

Pro: Might actually get more pages read as people will read one, get to the cliff hanger and jump straight into the next book. Serials could still potentially earn quite a lot.

Pro: Each shorter serial book is far more likely to be finished than a long novel, and it will add up across the series

Con: KU payouts are clearly going to go down, I was going to write a serial purely for KU but now I don't want to be in it, I think my chances are far greater of getting a good return if I were to go wide.

Con: If the read through rate is lower than expected and they only read book one and two but then lose interest during the gap between releases (this is definitely a thing) then later books in the serial are practically worthless


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> Cliffhanger question: For those who use cliffhangers, when you end an installment with a cliffhanger, how are most of you proceeding with the next installment? Is it best to pick up right where you left off in the cliffhanger in the previous installment, or do you carry on as though some time (whether days or weeks) has passed in the characters lives since the previous cliffhanger?
> 
> I remember at the height of my daily soap opera addiction some fifteen to twenty years ago I would hang on with baited breath after those cliffhangers on Fridays until the show resumed again on Monday to see what would happen next. The soaps always pick up right where they left off with a cliffhanger. I'm leaning toward this as it seems like the most logical way to go about kicking off the subsequent installments, but am wondering from all you serial experts is this generally preferred by readers?


This all depends on the story. Sometimes, the next installment can pick up immediately after the cliffhanger. Other times, they can pick up at some point later. There's no universal answer, you have to do what's best for your story. For example, let's say an episode ends with a traitor revealed, but only to the reader/viewer. The characters wouldn't know that character is a traitor so life would continue for them as normal and the story could pick up days, weeks, or months later.



Boyd said:


> With the changes to KU, I think I'm going to write serials even more than I was before. I know this can potentially hurt folks, but so far even my worst estimate/guess is more of a raise than the original KU payout. For me, I'm going full steam ahead.
> 
> Has the KU changes worried you?


Not really. KU has pretty much been a total waste of time for me. I only planned to keep my serial in there until August anyway and to go wide from there. I was thinking of launching season two in KU and then going wide as well but now, I may just go wide from the start.

It was only a matter of time before Amazon completely overhauled the system. If the house doesn't win, they change the game.


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## ZamajK (Jun 8, 2014)

I guess with the new changes we have to go the Netflix route and release all parts at once 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> This all depends on the story. Sometimes, the next installment can pick up immediately after the cliffhanger. Other times, they can pick up at some point later. There's no universal answer, you have to do what's best for your story. For example, let's say an episode ends with a traitor revealed, but only to the reader/viewer. The characters wouldn't know that character is a traitor so life would continue for them as normal and the story could pick up days, weeks, or months later.
> 
> Not really. KU has pretty much been a total waste of time for me. I only planned to keep my serial in there until August anyway and to go wide from there. I was thinking of launching season two in KU and then going wide as well but now, I may just go wide from the start.
> 
> It was only a matter of time before Amazon completely overhauled the system. If the house doesn't win, they change the game.


Ahh, I see where you're coming from. Hadn't thought of it that way. Will keep that in mind. Thanks

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Adair Hart (Jun 12, 2015)

I have been following this thread intently since it sounds like what I am writing falls into this category. My stories are 40-50k novellas. They would be longer, but my editor beat me over the head about infodumps.   They follow a protagonist and several main characters. Each book is its own full story that starts and resolves itself, but they need to be read in sequence. For instance, if the third novella was picked up, certain events would have transpired in previous novellas that might be referenced and minor plotlines started in earlier books might be resolved. From what I understand, that makes it a serial, and not a series which can be read out of order (I think that is the consensus from what I have researched).

They don't end on nail-biting cliffhangers, but more with "and the adventures continue" and sometimes with references to plotlines that will be wrapped up in later episodes. I'm getting hung up on what to call it. Is 40-50k too long to call it a serial? If so, should I call it a series and use terms like Book 1, etc and ignore the "out of order" reading clause attached to the term "series"? The brand title is "The Evaran Chronicles".


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

40-50k is long enough to be considered a novel in its own right.

So you really have a series instead of a serial. Sounds like.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I would call that a series, Adair. My Myth Hunter series is similar to what you're describing and I don't consider it a serial. Series don't always have to carry the caveat that they need to be accessible out of order. Look at the James Bond books. If you read Dr. No before reading From Russia With Love or The Man With The Golden Gun before You Only Live Twice, you'd probably be pretty confused. But the Bond books aren't considered to be a serial.


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

Adair Hart said:


> I have been following this thread intently since it sounds like what I am writing falls into this category. My stories are 40-50k novellas. They would be longer, but my editor beat me over the head about infodumps.  They follow a protagonist and several main characters. Each book is its own full story that starts and resolves itself, but they need to be read in sequence. For instance, if the third novella was picked up, certain events would have transpired in previous novellas that might be referenced and minor plotlines started in earlier books might be resolved. From what I understand, that makes it a serial, and not a series which can be read out of order (I think that is the consensus from what I have researched).
> 
> They don't end on nail-biting cliffhangers, but more with "and the adventures continue" and sometimes with references to plotlines that will be wrapped up in later episodes. I'm getting hung up on what to call it. Is 40-50k too long to call it a serial? If so, should I call it a series and use terms like Book 1, etc and ignore the "out of order" reading clause attached to the term "series"? The brand title is "The Evaran Chronicles".


Yeah, that's definitely a series, Adair. There are two kinds of series: the kind that is one continuing story (like most epic fantasy), and the kind that is a series of sequels (each piece is standalone-able). Series can definitely have cliffhangers and high continuity and be difficult/impossible to read out of order.

Serials are structured more like soap operas or TV shows. That's why the terms "episodes" and "seasons" are favored.

I've been considering writing a serial, not to take advantage of KU per se, but to take advantage of being able to release more quickly. I find new structures interesting to work with. I strongly favor "complete in and of itself" structures for book series, so I'm not sure if I'm a big serial gal. On the other hand, my comic often ends on dramatic cliffhangers at the end of every chapter, since the structure is deliberately TV show-esque, so that's basically a serial that happens to be highly illustrated.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

Boyd said:


> With the changes to KU, I think I'm going to write serials even more than I was before. I know this can potentially hurt folks, but so far even my worst estimate/guess is more of a raise than the original KU payout. For me, I'm going full steam ahead.


BINGO! Boyd, you realize that serialized fiction WILL DO WELL with the recent change in KU, and so do I. I'm right there with you. I've got a novel coming out next month, and I have a series planned. But I also have a serial planned, which I'm looking forward to.

Good luck!


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## Adair Hart (Jun 12, 2015)

geronl said:


> 40-50k is long enough to be considered a novel in its own right.
> 
> So you really have a series instead of a serial. Sounds like.


I saw that some places called over 40k a short novel, and some that said it is just a long novella, but wasn't sure. Appreciate the response geronl!



Perry Constantine said:


> I would call that a series, Adair. My Myth Hunter series is similar to what you're describing and I don't consider it a serial. Series don't always have to carry the caveat that they need to be accessible out of order. Look at the James Bond books. If you read Dr. No before reading From Russia With Love or The Man With The Golden Gun before You Only Live Twice, you'd probably be pretty confused. But the Bond books aren't considered to be a serial.


Makes sense. I think I will then go with the terms of Book instead of Episode like I initially planned. Appreciate the reply. On another note, I am a big fan of comics (still need to get my Marvel license, my bud rants about how great it is) and tried to do one myself. I am curious how that translates to the written word so am planning on checking out your works 



UnicornEmily said:


> Yeah, that's definitely a series, Adair. There are two kinds of series: the kind that is one continuing story (like most epic fantasy), and the kind that is a series of sequels (each piece is standalone-able). Series can definitely have cliffhangers and high continuity and be difficult/impossible to read out of order.
> 
> Serials are structured more like soap operas or TV shows. That's why the terms "episodes" and "seasons" are favored.
> 
> I've been considering writing a serial, not to take advantage of KU per se, but to take advantage of being able to release more quickly. I find new structures interesting to work with. I strongly favor "complete in and of itself" structures for book series, so I'm not sure if I'm a big serial gal. On the other hand, my comic often ends on dramatic cliffhangers at the end of every chapter, since the structure is deliberately TV show-esque, so that's basically a serial that happens to be highly illustrated.


Brings fond memories of The Shannara Series by Terry Brooks. My series (I am calling it that now after these replies!) are inspired by Dr. Who, with a mix of Star Trek and Batman tossed in there. I am interested like you now on my second project being a shorter serial. I am going wide and agree that the quicker release schedule sounds like something I could do in between the books of my series. I noticed your in Provo, Utah with some fancy Google fiber options!!

I appreciate the replies everyone. I am going with series for my novellas. Tonight I am putting together my brief for my cover designer and wanted to solidify what would be there textwise on the cover. I feel more confident now about the direction I am headed.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

You guys have to be kidding me. There's no way 50 page installments will be better off under this new payout system.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Adair Hart said:


> . My series (I am calling it that now after these replies!) are inspired by Dr. Who, with a mix of Star Trek and Batman tossed in there.


That sounds different.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

Also, forgot to say, those of us who are attempting serials, we HAVE to get the books out FAST.  Once a week, no longer than once every two weeks.  

Winners are not afraid to fail, and they're not afraid to make mistakes.  I learned my lesson BIG TIME with my zombie series when it comes to getting books out.  I had readers with my first book, and they were dying for more.  But I didn't get books two and three out fast enough, and that killed my sales.  

Have confidence in yourself that you'll get readers with your first serial book, AND THEN, get the rest of the d*mn books out FAST.  PERIOD.

What is fast?  Once a week is fast, but could be unrealistic for many of us.  Once every two weeks is doable if we put in the work.

Good luck to us all!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Bleh. Just... bleh.

Edited because bleh.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Adair Hart said:


> Makes sense. I think I will then go with the terms of Book instead of Episode like I initially planned. Appreciate the reply. On another note, I am a big fan of comics (still need to get my Marvel license, my bud rants about how great it is) and tried to do one myself. I am curious how that translates to the written word so am planning on checking out your works


Thanks! Hope you like it!



ShaneJeffery said:


> You guys have to be kidding me. There's no way 50 page installments will be better off under this new payout system.


Well first you're assuming all serials are composed of 50-page installments. My episodes are 15K and others on this thread have talked about 20K installments, which works out to about 60-80 pages. Second, it depends on what the payout actually ends up being. If it's $0.01 per page, then yeah, that works out to $0.60-0.80 per borrow. If it's $0.02 per page, then that goes up to $1.20-1.60, which would actually make it close to the same or better than the current KU/KOLL rate.

What Boyd and Jolie are basically saying is it's too early for any Chicken Little talk. Right now, we know very little about the changes Amazon's making and we won't be able to say definitively whether it's good or bad for serials until we see some real data.

And even if it is worse than the previous rate, it still comes down to authors making the decision they feel is best for their own business. At the end of the day, while $0.60 per borrow is lower than $1.33 per borrow, it's still more than $0.35 per sale. For some, that may be enough justification to stay in.

Do what works for you, leave everyone else free to do what works for them.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> You guys have to be kidding me. There's no way 50 page installments will be better off under this new payout system.


The read through rate for serials is good. 

~~~~

Understand that KU has been good for me, number one, and number two, I've pulled in readers before, and I have confidence in myself that I can do it again.

~~~~

It all depends on your history and your attitude about KU. If you're against KU, if you've never published before, if your books have never sold before - all of that will play into your decision about starting a serial with KU.

I'm still a new self-published author after having left publishers, but I'm glad I'm not brand new. The experience that I do have helps me come to my decisions.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Thanks! Hope you like it!
> 
> Well first you're assuming all serials are composed of 50-page installments. My episodes are 15K and others on this thread have talked about 20K installments, which works out to about 60-80 pages. Second, it depends on what the payout actually ends up being. If it's $0.01 per page, then yeah, that works out to $0.60-0.80 per borrow. If it's $0.02 per page, then that goes up to $1.20-1.60, which would actually make it close to the same or better than the current KU/KOLL rate.
> 
> ...


50 page, 80 page, 100 page etc. Not if it's paying at 1 cent per page. It must pay at 2 cents per page to pretty much break even.

The only people who benefit are the ones with a backlist of novels that are being read. I guess of course if scam pamphlets were savaging the KU borrow rate then short story writers would benefit but ... it's all so up in the air.

At least we knew before a borrow would probably mean 1.30 etc.

Now it means nothing.

Nothing if the book doesn't get read.

Let's just say I'm glad I don't have a family relying on me.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Here's what I think: 

Amazon is NOT going to pay .10/page UNLESS they put a cap on it. So maybe .10/page up to current borrow rate of $1.35. If that's the case...we're okay.

IF they screwed up their math (which is likely), and misplaced a decimal, then they might have MEANT to imply .01/page... That's a penny a page. If that's the case, my serial is FUBAR. Worst case scenario--for me.  

If they pay .02 per oage or above... I'm happy. Real happy. I have confidence in my read-thru rate, as long as I can figure out how to get it in front of readers in the first place. 

So here's to hoping it's at least .02 or .03 per page!


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

OT: hi, Jolie! 

Long time...no see!


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

L.L. Akers said:


> OT: hi, Jolie!
> 
> Long time...no see!


Hello!  Got tired of author forums, but I realize I need to change my attitude about them. No person can get you down unless you allow it. 

I hope you have a great week.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

Hi Jolie, 

Random question. How do you get your series of novels to display nicely on your sales page? Where it easily spells out each subsequent book? 

I've been seeing that for several books now, and I'm like "I wanna do that!" but I don't know how.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

RachelWriter said:


> Hi Jolie,
> 
> Random question. How do you get your series of novels to display nicely on your sales page? Where it easily spells out each subsequent book?
> 
> I've been seeing that for several books now, and I'm like "I wanna do that!" but I don't know how.


If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're seeing is something Amazon's been doing, because I've noticed that too. In one section they've got my books clearly listed as a three book series. I didn't do that. They did that.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

Oh, okay! 

Thank you.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> 50 page, 80 page, 100 page etc. Not if it's paying at 1 cent per page. It must pay at 2 cents per page to pretty much break even.
> 
> The only people who benefit are the ones with a backlist of novels that are being read. I guess of course if scam pamphlets were savaging the KU borrow rate then short story writers would benefit but ... it's all so up in the air.
> 
> ...


If you're writing 10,000 word works, write three and sell them together. Then you're getting the same deal as a novel for the same amount of words.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Barnaby Yard said:


> If you're writing 10,000 word works, write three and sell them together. Then you're getting the same deal as a novel for the same amount of words.


This doesn't make sense. If you write three x 10,000 word episodes, it doesn't matter if you sell them together as one novel, or separately as three episodes. It's still the same amount of page numbers whether it's under one cover...or three.

However, you might save money by not having to buy three covers.

Eta: if we're talking about KU borrows... Not sales.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

L.L. Akers said:


> This doesn't make sense. If you write three x 10,000 word episodes, it doesn't matter if you sell them together as one novel, or separately as three episodes. It's still the same amount of page numbers whether it's under one cover...or three.
> 
> However, you might save money by not having to buy three covers.


WRONG.

Because you'll be pricing at 2.99 of course and getting 70 percent of royalty.

Instead of having 3 10k books at .99 cents.

Strategies must change now.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> WRONG.
> 
> Because you'll be pricing at 2.99 of course and getting 70 percent of royalty.
> 
> ...


No. Not wrong. The omnibus will be 2.99+. Individual episodes will still be .99. If they borrow the omnibus, the page numbers are still the same. Yeah,sure...we'd rather they buy (at 70% royalty) than Borrow!

But we're not talking buys or sale price...we're talking borrow rate, for those readers who don't buy... They borrow. Sale price/royalty rate is another topic altogether 

Eta: oops, thought I was on the KU thread. Maybe y'all were taking about buys...not borrows. My bad


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

L.L. Akers said:


> No. Not wrong. The omnibus will be 2.99+. Individual episodes will still be .99. If they borrow the omnibus, the page numbers are still the same. Yeah,sure...we'd rather they buy (at 70% royalty) than Borrow!
> 
> But we're not talking buys or sale price...we're talking borrow rate, for those readers who don't buy... They borrow. Sale price/royalty rate is another topic altogether


I think it's in the same field of discussion. The changes to KU will see some books not as valuable as they once were. A 10k book that was getting 1.35 borrows doesn't have to worry about sales unless they're not getting enough borrows to compensate. If they wind up getting only .50 cents for the book instead of 1.35, then it's not making up the difference anymore. 2.99 books giving a 70 percent royalty were always more cost effective than any .99 cent title at .35 cents. And yes, in this instance, the 2.99 title is worth double 3 .99 cent books.

Length and royalty rate matter.

You have to aim to get paid the best value by the word. It made sense to write short books in KU at .99 cents because of the payout per word with borrows factored in.

Now that the math is different, it means that the 2.99 price point becomes more important again. Otherwise you are getting underpaid pricing any work at a 35 percent royalty rate.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I think it's in the same field of discussion. The changes to KU will see some books not as valuable as they once were. A 10k book that was getting 1.35 borrows doesn't have to worry about sales unless they're not getting enough borrows to compensate. If they wind up getting only .50 cents for the book instead of 1.35, then it's not making up the difference anymore. 2.99 books giving a 70 percent royalty were always more cost effective than any .99 cent title at .35 cents. And yes, in this instance, the 2.99 title is worth double 3 .99 cent books.
> 
> Length and royalty rate matter.
> 
> ...


I see your point. That said, I will probably take down all individual episodes and put up a complete set. Price it at 2.99. Then I get 70% royalty on buys, and it doesn't change the borrow rate whether it's under six covers or one (in my case). It's all about my ability to get read-thru.

Eta: the customer wins too. Instead of paying almost 5 bucks for the serial, they get it for 2.99.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2015)

L.L. Akers said:


> I see your point. That said, I will probably take down all individual episodes and put up a complete set. Price it at 2.99. Then I get 70% royalty on buys, and it doesn't change the borrow rate whether it's under six covers or one (in my case). It's all about my ability to get read-thru.
> 
> Eta: the customer wins too. Instead of paying almost 5 bucks for the serial, they get it for 2.99.


You might as well say you're going to write novels instead. I'd say that if the change is making one author of short fiction take down their entire works and convert into novel format, hoping to stave off the borrow problems that lie ahead, then that's not a win for anyone.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

Evenstar said:


> OH! Can I say a word that rhymes with "Chit" about the proposed changes. I am NOT happy. I'm going to put my serial on a back burner then.* You can officially count me out now.* Just after I spent a bomb on ten new covers. But I was writing it to take advantage of KU. I'm now going to readjust my outline and make it a novel, and it WONT be going into KU.


Thanks for the idea, Evenstar. My serial episodes are only 8K and 20K for books 1 & 2. Putting them out at those lengths is pointless with the new pay structure for KU. I don't need another large writing project. I have enough on my plate with my two series. The first one at some 50K words is long enough to be fine under the new program. The second one, though, is novella length. I'll have to wait until they reveal the "new page counts" to know if it will fly. But another part of me is kind of excited at the thought of expanding Angela's story in a novel length book. We'll see.

Ugh, this KU revision is a game changer!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

L.L. Akers said:


> This doesn't make sense. If you write three x 10,000 word episodes, it doesn't matter if you sell them together as one novel, or separately as three episodes. It's still the same amount of page numbers whether it's under one cover...or three.
> 
> However, you might save money by not having to buy three covers.


There is one other advantage that doesnn't seem to have been taken in to account, is that several short releases mean more exposure even if they don't mean more money.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

@Evenstar... You're right. More covers/books = more exposure. I guess we'll have to weigh out the pros vs. The cons on offering all individual episides (for a .35 royalty if purchased) versus a Complete Set (@ 70% royalty). Good point


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## T.K. (Mar 8, 2011)

Just jumping in here to say hi and see what I can glean from everyone. (I love that about KB.) And if you see my sig I also have what I call a mini-series. I'm releasing one episode per week, doing KDP Select, and using free runs at certain intervals  for exposure. We'll see how it goes. If I do find something that works for promo I'll certainly let you know. So far what I love about mini-series, serials, etc. is they are SO manageable, easier to go through the writing process, easier to edit, etc. But we'll just have to wait and see if they are easier to market. (Kind of a joke - what's ever easy to market?!?)


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Also, forgot to say, those of us who are attempting serials, we HAVE to get the books out FAST. Once a week, no longer than once every two weeks.
> 
> Winners are not afraid to fail, and they're not afraid to make mistakes. I learned my lesson BIG TIME with my zombie series when it comes to getting books out. I had readers with my first book, and they were dying for more. But I didn't get books two and three out fast enough, and that killed my sales.
> 
> ...


I release every three weeks and it's been working well for me. I don't think I could keep up with weekly and have a quality product.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShaneJeffery said:


> 50 page, 80 page, 100 page etc. Not if it's paying at 1 cent per page. It must pay at 2 cents per page to pretty much break even.


No, it depends on your price and your expectations. If you're pricing at $0.99, then you get $0.35 per borrow. At one cent a borrow, even a 50-page serial is making $0.50 per borrow. You're not making as much as the old borrow rate, but you're still making more than a sale. For some people, that's still enough. And counting on borrows for serials isn't always a winning strategy. My sales have far outpaced my borrows.

And let's be honest here for a second--$1.30 per borrow regardless of price or length was a pretty stupid thing for Amazon to do in the first place. You had to have known that wasn't going to last forever. Sure, I took advantage of it while it was there, but I never believed for a second it would exist that way in perpetuity. KU needed to make some changes sooner or later with the way Amazon continually had to up the global fund.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

Yeah, this news about KU actually doesn't bother me. Like what's been noted; whether you split 250k into 10 novellas or 3 novels... It's the same amount of pages. And publishing them serial style gives you the advantage of exposure. I think the best thing is to continue writing the best stuff you can and publishing frequently. That's what my plan is anyway. 

And I recommend using bknights for promos because I did one today and went from only 1 to 2 sales all the way to 7. So that was nice. All will be okay.

Also, I have found I sell way more at a higher price point than a lower one. My novella is 25k though. I lowered it to .99 and sales plummeted to the floor. Just my very short experience though.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> Yeah, this news about KU actually doesn't bother me. Like what's been noted; whether you split 250k into 10 novellas or 3 novels... It's the same amount of pages. And publishing them serial style gives you the advantage of exposure. I think the best thing is to continue writing the best stuff you can and publishing frequently. That's what my plan is anyway.
> 
> And I recommend using bknights for promos because I did one today and went from only 1 to 2 sales all the way to 7. So that was nice. All will be okay.
> 
> Also, I have found I sell way more at a higher price point than a lower one. My novella is 25k though. I lowered it to .99 and sales plummeted to the floor. Just my very short experience though.


I'm giving the higher price thing a try myself at the moment. Seems like something that is worth experimenting with. I tried 1.99 briefly a few days ago, but that didn't generate any results. Then I heard that 1.99 is kind of a dead zone, so I just moved on up to 2.99 to see what will happen.

My book is 30k and I'm seeing a lot of books in my genre in that same length range, selling for 2.99, getting plenty of sales and decent reviews. Some of these are also either parts of a series or serials. Doesn't seem to matter.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> I release every three weeks and it's been working well for me. I don't think I could keep up with weekly and have a quality product.


Violet, your serials are doing great.  Also, as much as I hate the 99 cents price, that's what we need to do with serials, it seems.

Great job!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

Jacob Stanley said:


> I'm giving the higher price thing a try myself at the moment. Seems like something that is worth experimenting with. I tried 1.99 briefly a few days ago, but that didn't generate any results. Then I heard that 1.99 is kind of a dead zone, so I just moved on up to 2.99 to see what will happen.
> 
> My book is 30k and I'm seeing a lot of books in my genre in that same length range, selling for 2.99, getting plenty of sales and decent reviews. Some of these are also either parts of a series or serials. Doesn't seem to matter.


I definitely think 2.99 for 30k is a fair price! I hope it works for you!

Also my bknights promo went even better than I previously posted. I just in the last hour had a surge of sales catch up on reports. I went from a 130k rank to a 30k rank and I am now back in a top 100 subcategory. It was my first time using him and the results I got were above and beyond what I thought they would be. Huge thumbs up. Y'all should look into it!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jacob Stanley said:


> I'm giving the higher price thing a try myself at the moment. Seems like something that is worth experimenting with. I tried 1.99 briefly a few days ago, but that didn't generate any results. Then I heard that 1.99 is kind of a dead zone, so I just moved on up to 2.99 to see what will happen.
> 
> My book is 30k and I'm seeing a lot of books in my genre in that same length range, selling for 2.99, getting plenty of sales and decent reviews. Some of these are also either parts of a series or serials. Doesn't seem to matter.


$2.99 for 30K is definitely acceptable. My novellas are all 30K and I price them at $2.99.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> $2.99 for 30K is definitely acceptable. My novellas are all 30K and I price them at $2.99.





BelleAC said:


> I definitely think 2.99 for 30k is a fair price! I hope it works for you!
> 
> Also my bknights promo went even better than I previously posted. I just in the last hour had a surge of sales catch up on reports. I went from a 130k rank to a 30k rank and I am now back in a top 100 subcategory. It was my first time using him and the results I got were above and beyond what I thought they would be. Huge thumbs up. Y'all should look into it!


Okay, that's good to hear. I was a little worried because I do have a cliffhanger at the end, but it seems like that gets some people upset no matter how long or short your book is. I think it's a _good _cliffhanger in the sense that I think there's enough of a climactic moment to make the whole read feel like a full experience.

On bknights... I definitely intend to use them with my next free promotion. Sounds like they deliver great results for the dollar, and they don't seem to be restrictive like some of the other effective promotional options.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

Jacob Stanley said:


> Okay, that's good to hear. I was a little worried because I do have a cliffhanger at the end, but it seems like that gets some people upset no matter how long or short your book is. I think it's a _good _cliffhanger in the sense that I think there's enough of a climactic moment to make the whole read feel like a full experience.
> 
> On bknights... I definitely intend to use them with my next free promotion. Sounds like they deliver great results for the dollar, and they don't seem to be restrictive like some of the other effective promotional options.


I think cliffhangers are, for the most part, basically unavoidable in serials. I mean, clearly we don't want to end it mid-sentence. But we also want the reader to want to know what happens next. If it ends up too tidy, what's the excitement in that? As a reader I enjoy what I would call a "soft" cliffhanger. As in, the smaller part has a resolution but the bigger arch of the serial still needs to move forward.

And yes! Go for the promo! Not restrictive at all, which is nice for us serial writers. All he asked for was the basic info with the caveat that lowering the price to at least 1.99, preferably .99 would be in my best interest. I was also on the lower half of the posts on his website and I still did pretty well.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

BelleAC said:


> Also, I have found I sell way more at a higher price point than a lower one. My novella is 25k though. I lowered it to .99 and sales plummeted to the floor. Just my very short experience though.


I did the same Belle. My serial is priced as follows:

Avoidables 1 - permafree
Avoidables 2 - 0.99 (or free if you sign up to my newsletter)
Avoidables 3 - 1.99
4, 5 and 6 - 2.99

I lowered the price of 4 - 6 to 1.99 and sales dropped dramatically. As soon as I put them back to the old prices, they picked up again.

I've been thinking hard, but can't make a choice. My Select term runs out on the 7th July.

Now, I'm in the UK so I have to take exchange rate into consideration. A borrow for me is 0.90p after conversion. My episodes are 25k, so roughly 80 pages. I cannot see the rate being higher than .01c per page. Amazon are doing this to make money, no other reason.

So, that means that I would make 0.80c if it's 100% read. That converts to 0.50p. On book 2 and 3, it's slightly over the royalty payment of a sale. However, on books 4, 5 and 6, it's significantly lower. Please bear in mind that I get more borrows to sales ratio.

I can't see how I won't lose out quite a bit if I kept my serial in KU. There's no point in having books 2 and 3 in if it's the same rate as a sale, but has the risk of making a lot less if readers do not finish (you know, like with my chocolate tasting club - if you don't finish all the chocolates, the club still get my money, but the chocolatiers only get the amount for each chocolate eaten or TV subscription services, the provider gets the money, but the series maker gets paid on the amount of scenes watched in each episode) - totally tongue in cheek, Amazon are just a business after all.

Books 4, 5 and 6 - I didn't mind getting paid 0.90p for these episodes before, but I don't think I can accept less. I'm trying to make a living and if people buy/borrow these books, I know they're hooked on the serial by now. It might just be worth going wide to see what happens.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Violet, your serials are doing great.  Also, as much as I hate the 99 cents price, that's what we need to do with serials, it seems.
> 
> Great job!


Thanks. 

I think the 99 cent price depends upon genre. I also think that's about to change. It worked really well for getting more sales and visibility, which in turn led to more borrows, but with the new pricing structure I think 99 cent serials are going to have to adjust. My fingers are crossed that my tiny niche sways back to the 2.99 model.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I think the 99 cent price depends upon genre. I also think that's about to change. It worked really well for getting more sales and visibility, which in turn led to more borrows, but with the new pricing structure I think 99 cent serials are going to have to adjust. My fingers are crossed that my tiny niche sways back to the 2.99 model.


All my new books will be paranormal romance/ urban fantasy stuff. I've got a novel coming out next month that I'm going wide with, and that will be for $3.99. So not figuring KOLL or KU with that one. But my serial, which starts in August, and my new series, which starts in September, will be Amazon exclusive. The series books are at least 25,000 words each. So I'm comfortable charging $2.99 for those. I've worked with that price before for books that were no more than 25,000 words, and nobody complained about the price. The serials, however, I'm undecided about. They'll only be 15,000 words each, and I can't see charging $2.99 for those.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Unfortunately there isn't much to be gained by doing a $1.99 price for the length, and I'm told that's a dead zone that one shouldn't touch here at Amazon. So you either write longer, or hope that people don't mind paying the $2.99.  It will all boil down to what the market will bear. If most shifter serials are 2.99, then the readers will expect to pay it and it becomes the norm. A year ago at this time a $2.99 serial under 20K in length was marketable. Fascinating stuff, you know?


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## WrittenWordMediaTeam (Oct 23, 2012)

Chiming in here, because we just posted relevant data!

We interviewed a couple of industry people about series pricing / data / etc and posted it today. Mark from Kobo Writing Life has some especially interesting benchmark data on the series model.

If you're interested: http://www.freebooksy.com/secret-to-marketing-your-series/


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> Unfortunately there isn't much to be gained by doing a $1.99 price for the length, and I'm told that's a dead zone that one shouldn't touch here at Amazon. So you either write longer, or hope that people don't mind paying the $2.99. It will all boil down to what the market will bear. If most shifter serials are 2.99, then the readers will expect to pay it and it becomes the norm. A year ago at this time a $2.99 serial under 20K in length was marketable. Fascinating stuff, you know?


When I was writing erotica under a secret pen name, people paid $2.99 for my stories which were much shorter than 15K. However, that was erotica. I'll have to decide about the serials.

You're probably right about $1.99. But, of course, there's always exceptions. The zombie anthology I'm in is $1.99 and it's been ranking below 5,000 at Amazon since it launched. But that's a book that will only be available for a limited time. So that could be what's contributing to the decent ranking

Thanks for your information, Violet. You're cool, and you're not a snob. (Always refreshing over here at Kboards.) I wish you nothing but the best!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

Freebooksy_Taylor said:


> Chiming in here, because we just posted relevant data!
> 
> We interviewed a couple of industry people about series pricing / data / etc and posted it today. Mark from Kobo Writing Life has some especially interesting benchmark data on the series model.
> 
> If you're interested: http://www.freebooksy.com/secret-to-marketing-your-series/


Thanks so much for this information! Also, I can't wait to try Freebooksy again. When I used you before, you brought my zombie book to number one in Dystopian. That was an awesome day!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Well, serial people, just thought I'd update. I've gone and published the first two episodes of my first serial (last 2 in my sig now).

And I feel... sigh. Like I suck, and Select may or may not suck, and everything... sucks.

And that I have sucky covers and sucky blurbs for my sucky story.

This is probably just post-publishing feels and I'll get over it. I suppose it's extra awful this time because I'm trying something new, and I might suck.

Oh, well. Onto the next sucky episode, right?


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Oh, well. Onto the next sucky episode, right?


Yes.

& cheer up, it's still early


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

geronl said:


> Yes.
> 
> & cheer up, it's still early


Thanks.  I know it's just the post-pub blues. It's silly, and I'm trying really hard to distract myself.

I think I need some chocolate. Or a drink. Or a drink with some chocolate in it.


----------



## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Well, serial people, just thought I'd update. I've gone and published the first two episodes of my first serial (last 2 in my sig now).
> 
> And I feel... sigh. Like I suck, and Select may or may not suck, and everything... sucks.
> 
> ...


Wait, isn't this normal?


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Freebooksy_Taylor said:


> Chiming in here, because we just posted relevant data!
> 
> We interviewed a couple of industry people about series pricing / data / etc and posted it today. Mark from Kobo Writing Life has some especially interesting benchmark data on the series model.
> 
> If you're interested: http://www.freebooksy.com/secret-to-marketing-your-series/


Not relevant.

That data and sales pitch is about series of books that are individually long enough that freebooksy will promote them. And OMG, $200 to promote my series? Bookbub doesn't even charge that much!

This thread is about serials of episodes too short to promo on most sites.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Not relevant.
> 
> That data and sales pitch is about series of books that are individually long enough that freebooksy will promote them. And OMG, $200 to promote my series? Bookbub doesn't even charge that much!
> 
> This thread is about serials of episodes too short to promo on most sites.


Cherise, price aside, where does it say that Freebooksy won't promote SERIALS? The only qualifications I see for free:

The first book has to be permafree, with more than ten 4+star reviews.
You have to have at least 3 books in the series that are available for download or purchase.

If you're seeing something else, please let us know.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I have been writing a story for the blog, it is now 6 chapters and almost 12,000 words.

Should I stop at about 20k and make all of this the first part of a serial? I was planning to make it an e-book so the story is taking some time to unfold, I could make it exciting now and then go serial I guess. Hang on, I bet none of you even read it yet. lol.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

VioletVaughn said:


> Wait, isn't this normal?


Yeah, pretty much.  Today is extra-normal!


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## Michael Parnell (Aug 25, 2014)

Doglover said:


> Sorry to be dim, but what is an episode and what or why is a season?


We can be "dim and dimmer," because I had the same questions. 

I was glad to find this thread. I have a couple of stories in the works that feel like much more than short stories, but I'm eager to get part of them out there before I wait to complete novel-length works. Still not sure if I'll make them novellas or serials, but this thread is making me lean toward serials. The enthusiasm is contagious! Thanks to the all the people who are giving such great advice!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Boyd said:


> All I can offer is big hugs and let you know we've all been there.


Thank you... hugs are very much appreciated. 

And I'm wishing you all the best of luck with the end of your day job!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Well, serial people, just thought I'd update. I've gone and published the first two episodes of my first serial (last 2 in my sig now).
> 
> And I feel... sigh. Like I suck, and Select may or may not suck, and everything... sucks.
> 
> ...


Hey there, sweetie! I know things are slow right now, but be patient. I'm sure we all feel your covers are fine. I'm sure your content is fine. You just published a day or two ago. Give it some time.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> When I was writing erotica under a secret pen name, people paid $2.99 for my stories which were much shorter than 15K. However, that was erotica. I'll have to decide about the serials.
> 
> You're probably right about $1.99. But, of course, there's always exceptions. The zombie anthology I'm in is $1.99 and it's been ranking below 5,000 at Amazon since it launched. But that's a book that will only be available for a limited time. So that could be what's contributing to the decent ranking
> 
> Thanks for your information, Violet. You're cool, and you're not a snob. (Always refreshing over here at Kboards.) I wish you nothing but the best!


One thing to consider with $1.99 is the attractiveness of full season compilations. When I go wide, this is the pricing strategy I'm thinking of:

Episode 1: Free
Episode 2: $0.99
Episodes 3-5: $1.99
Season Compilation (which includes a bonus episode previously only available to email sign-ups): $4.99

If they bought all five episodes individually, that costs $7. If they buy the season compilation, it's $5. I just saved them two bucks and I get a bigger royalty.



S.W. Vaughn said:


> Well, serial people, just thought I'd update. I've gone and published the first two episodes of my first serial (last 2 in my sig now).
> 
> And I feel... sigh. Like I suck, and Select may or may not suck, and everything... sucks.
> 
> ...


Cheer up, it can take time to gain traction.


----------



## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Hey there, sweetie! I know things are slow right now, but be patient. I'm sure we all feel your covers are fine. I'm sure your content is fine. You just published a day or two ago. Give it some time.


Thank you, Jolie.  I think part of it's trying not to freak out about the new KU... perfect timing, Amazon. Unknowns kind of scare me...

I'm glad to see you back on the boards!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Sounds like great advice. Wasn't directed at me, but it is still good advice.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Cheer up, it can take time to gain traction.


Thank you, Perry, I'm attempting to cheer up -- I have donuts! 

By the way, thanks for contributing so much of your experiences and knowledge to this thread. I'm totally in the dark about serials, and I've learned a lot from you!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2015)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Thank you, Jolie.  I think part of it's trying not to freak out about the new KU... perfect timing, Amazon. Unknowns kind of scare me...
> 
> I'm glad to see you back on the boards!


I've fixed my attitude about boards, and I'm glad to be back. 

~~~~

My sister is a partner for a major corporation. Amazon is one of their clients. She tells me not to worry. Amazon may try to be cheap with authors, but they're not hurting for money. Translation - Amazon is not going anywhere anytime soon.

I've chosen to focus most of my publishing with Amazon. I don't regret that choice.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I've fixed my attitude about boards, and I'm glad to be back.
> 
> ~~~~
> 
> ...


That is good to hear! 

I'm definitely sticking with Select right now... the new pen name's getting far more borrows than sales. Even with the new rules for borrows, I'll do better in Select than going wide.... if people are reading the books. OH GOD WHAT IF THEY'RE NOT?!

Heh. Okay, minor freakout over. And hey, I'm ranking in a subcategory! #75 in Kindle Store > five thousand smaller categories just look at all these carats > Arthurian. Woo-hoo!


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Weirdly enough, I got my biggest serial borrow day yesterday! I've already had 2 borrows today. Do you think I'm getting a sign to stay in KU? lol


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## RachelMeyers (Apr 17, 2014)

So, I'm about to say something that might be incredibly naïve.  I haven't actually published a serial yet, but I'm working on one for release in the late summer/early autumn.  I'm still planning to use KU (although by then of course there will hopefully be more info floating around post-changes) because even if the payout is smaller, I look at it as reaching a different audience.  I assume people who are in KU are more likely to borrow than buy (and if your books/episodes/stories are not in KU they won't be able to) and people who are not in KU but still want to read your stories will buy them.  Right?  And being in KU doesn't stop non-KU bods buying them.  So really, borrows are a bonus above and beyond any sales you might get.  Just thinking out loud.

I also really, really like Perry's (I think, sorry haven't scrolled back to check) point about selling individual instalments for $0.99 and then compilations priced to get the higher royalty.  That's my plan too.

Anyway back to it.  I really love this thread.  So grateful for all the wisdom here.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I've been pleasantly surprised by my complete set sales. To push it I put a link in the back of every single book before I list the links to the other parts. 

Another great tool to market your serial is a group box set. The box set I put together that came out June 1 has increased every participants sell through. It's success is probably a combination of things, but if you were to try one I suggest you stay tightly branded with the content.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

RachelMeyers said:


> I also really, really like Perry's (I think, sorry haven't scrolled back to check) point about selling individual instalments for $0.99 and then compilations priced to get the higher royalty. That's my plan too.


Just a quick clarification, I suggested pricing the later episodes higher than $0.99 because then that makes the season compilation look like a better value for the reader and it also gets you more money. Also if you're going wide, higher-priced books are more likely to be selected for promotional opportunities on other platforms.

It's something I like about serials where you can kind of have it both ways. You can do an initial run on Amazon and KU where you price the episodes low, then you can increase the prices and go wide when you have a season compilation out.

Of course, this is all just theoretical on my part at the moment and what I'm planning to do. I might find that this strategy doesn't work at all.



VioletVaughn said:


> Another great tool to market your serial is a group box set. The box set I put together that came out June 1 has increased every participants sell through. It's success is probably a combination of things, but if you were to try one I suggest you stay tightly branded with the content.


How do you handle the group box set? Do you put the first episode in there or the whole first season?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Each author puts their first installment with a teaser to the next one, as well as a link to the complete set if they have one. We're targeting the shifter romance market and serial readers by making it clear "First Bite"  what we're offering. I thought we would also appeal to the KU market and we do, but surprisingly our sales are 2 to 3 times our borrows credited each day, which is the flip of my other KU titles.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Boyd said:


> So today is my 4th day as a full time writer. The first three days were interupted by a funeral and OB appointments for my wife and new baby. Not complaining about those! My kiddos thought that now dad is home, it's open season on playing, fixing and helping them beat a level of Call of duty on CO-Op. Arg.... I've bought locks for my basement door now.
> 
> Today, I went to the farmer's market. A place I generally have been able to achieve 10k words a day when I'm not working the stall, just standing in for bathroom breaks etc. My old job didn't even know I was there... and I got like... 2k written.
> 
> ...


LOL. It takes time to adjust. I would give yourself at least two weeks to find a new stride before you really get any work done. That's what I keep seeing anyway. Good luck!


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Boyd said:


> . Arg.... I've bought locks for my basement door now.


Good for you, if the banging on the door from the little rascals annoys too much, turn up some music.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I only average 2 to 3K a day. But I edit the previous day before I start writing.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

BelleAC said:


> I think cliffhangers are, for the most part, basically unavoidable in serials.


Well... no.

I know a lot of people are just cutting up books, but the traditional form of the serial is episodic just like any TV show. You can have arcs, both small and mythic, but that doesn't necessitate cliffhangers. In fact, the continual cliffhanger model is relatively new* to TV and even then, _most_ episode still manage to stand alone to some extent. And in print, continual cliffhangers have been all but non-existent outside of magazines.

*In a cyclical way. In the 70's theatrical and Saturday morning serials were well-known, but fell out of favor by the 80's.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Boyd said:


> Noise cancelling headphones  My wife is concerned about the laundry though... I may eventually make a separate lockable office down there.


I was thinking the kids would be locked in the basement. lol


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Vaalingrade said:


> Well... no.
> 
> I know a lot of people are just cutting up books, but the traditional form of the serial is episodic just like any TV show. You can have arcs, both small and mythic, but that doesn't necessitate cliffhangers. In fact, the continual cliffhanger model is relatively new* to TV and even then, _most_ episode still manage to stand alone to some extent. And in print, continual cliffhangers have been all but non-existent outside of magazines.
> 
> *In a cyclical way. In the 70's theatrical and Saturday morning serials were well-known, but fell out of favor by the 80's.


 Two words - Soap Operas My favorite was the eyes flitting back and forth for drama as the other character waited to say his lines.... I love drama.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> Two words - Soap Operas My favorite was the eyes flitting back and forth for drama as the other character waited to say his lines.... I love drama.


Yes this! Maybe cliffhanger is the wrong word... But basically, I feel like as a reader of serials/series I expect that ending that would almost have a voiceover of "Next time on the Bold and the Beautiful..." Definitely episodic in nature. (I love drama too.)


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2015)

Vaalingrade said:


> Well... no.
> 
> I know a lot of people are just cutting up books, but the traditional form of the serial is episodic just like any TV show. You can have arcs, both small and mythic, but that doesn't necessitate cliffhangers. In fact, the continual cliffhanger model is relatively new* to TV and even then, _most_ episode still manage to stand alone to some extent. And in print, continual cliffhangers have been all but non-existent outside of magazines.
> 
> *In a cyclical way. In the 70's theatrical and Saturday morning serials were well-known, but fell out of favor by the 80's.


Well... yeah. I agree with you, I mentioned that there should be an episodic feel to a serial. As in, there is a beginning, middle, and end with a clear resolution while still advancing the larger arch just enough to make you want to know what's happening next. Maybe I explained that poorly. But I actually agree with you. I guess I meant its unavoidable to not leave unanswered questions in a serial or series. That's how you get readers invested in the next one. If that makes sense?


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm just getting hung up on the use of cliffhanger. It means like a billion things nowadays.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> I'm just getting hung up on the use of cliffhanger. It means like a billion things nowadays.


I don't understand what you mean. How does a cliffhanger mean a billion things these days? The idea of a cliffhanger is rather cut and dry and is what it is.

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

You would think that. Even hope it, but not really.

People use 'cliffhanger' when they mean:
- chapter break
- an ending where the myth arc isn't resolved
- an ending that sets up a new plot
- an ending that is meant to remain unresolved
- an ending that does not reveal the situations of all characters.

Whereas the only true cliffhanger is an ending in which the results of the immediate situation is left unresolved until the next installment. But in general, people don't know the right terms for the other ones ('and the adventure continues', 'myth arc', 'sequel hook', etc) and just say 'cliffhanger' instead when that's not what they're really talking about.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

When I get an idea for a story I stop what I am doing and write down as much as I can before putting it aside.

In the last couple of days this has happened several times. One of them is nearly 5,000 words long. The story reminds me of _Battlestar Galactica_ and I know fleet sci-fi is pretty big right now. I am thinking I could easily turn it into a serial, with another 10-15k words for part one.

This is a side project, so I would definitely not be able to give it my full attention. Should I just wait until its finished to decide what to do with it?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I think you need to plan your release strategy and figure out how writing the serial fits into your current schedule. That will dictate when you can release the first one.


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## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2015)

Vaalingrade said:


> I'm just getting hung up on the use of cliffhanger. It means like a billion things nowadays.


I prefer to think of them as breadcrumbs. To me, a cliffhanger cuts you off mid-story; breadcrumbs lead you from one story into the next.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I need to finish the current projects first then.

Afterwards I can focus on writing the military serial and maybe this one.

I could probably do two serials but I would need to clear everything else out of the way first.

I even checked the Ama-on site and no other scifi story or book had this title. So I was happy to see that.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

geronl said:


> When I get an idea for a story I stop what I am doing and write down as much as I can before putting it aside.
> 
> In the last couple of days this has happened several times. One of them is nearly 5,000 words long. The story reminds me of _Battlestar Galactica_ and I know fleet sci-fi is pretty big right now. I am thinking I could easily turn it into a serial, with another 10-15k words for part one.
> 
> This is a side project, so I would definitely not be able to give it my full attention. Should I just wait until its finished to decide what to do with it?


It's ultimately up to you to work however you feel is best. If I were you, this is how I would do it.

First, I would look at my notes and see if what I've got is more suited to shorter, serialized installments or longer books. If it's the former, then I'll start a season outline and then focus down to the individual episode outlines. If it's the latter, then I'd focus on that first book.

I think it's best to figure out if you're writing a serial or a series before you start writing. If you decide later to change it into a serial, you might find that the structure isn't right and you don't want it reading like a chopped-up novel.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

True. The story I put on my blog was barely getting started after 7 chapters and nearly 14k words. I guess that is definitely "novel" and not serial.

I guess finishing that will be #3 on my list then, it is already almost as much as my #2 WIP.

By the time I get around to doing the fleet SF thing (#4 or 5 on my list) it might not be the hot thing any more. lol


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

Vaalingrade, I fully agree with you as a lot of us do just use the one term to cover many things these days.

I do it all the time but in....... SQUIRREL!!!!!

sorry got distracted there again...


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> Quote from: ShaneJeffery on June 16, 2015, 11:51:01 AM
> 
> 50 page, 80 page, 100 page etc. Not if it's paying at 1 cent per page. It must pay at 2 cents per page to pretty much break even.





Perry Constantine said:


> No, it depends on your price and your expectations. *If you're pricing at $0.99, then you get $0.35 per borrow.* At one cent a borrow, even a 50-page serial is making $0.50 per borrow. You're not making as much as the old borrow rate, but you're still making more than a sale. For some people, that's still enough. And counting on borrows for serials isn't always a winning strategy. My sales have far outpaced my borrows.
> 
> And let's be honest here for a second--$1.30 per borrow regardless of price or length was a pretty stupid thing for Amazon to do in the first place. You had to have known that wasn't going to last forever. Sure, I took advantage of it while it was there, but I never believed for a second it would exist that way in perpetuity. KU needed to make some changes sooner or later with the way Amazon continually had to up the global fund.


No, you'd get roughly .35 a _sale_, at .99. As I understand it, the new borrow rate has nothing to do with the price of the book/short/serial episode/whatever, but is based_ solely on pages read_. So if you end up with X pages read at the end of the month, you would be paid whatever that month's borrow rate turned out to be -- which is basically the same as now, except it's based on actual pages read, not a percentage.

Price the book as you think best, but .99, 2.99, or 8.99, it's not going to make any difference. If all people read is 100 pages, and the payout is one cent per page read (or whatever it ends up being that month, but I'm guessing it will be a penny a page, possibly two cents).

Author A can have a 500 page book, and Author B a 50 page short, but if only 10 pages of either are read, that's what they'll get paid for, at the rate Amazon decides to pay for that month. Author A isn't going to be paid more, simply because there are more pages in their novel, or because they're priced differently.

On the topic of writing serials, here's the first in a series of posts that I found very helpful: http://thesecretstorylair.blogspot.com/2012/08/episodic-storytellingits-in-your-blood.html


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I meant you're getting $0.35 per sale, but had borrows on the mind and made a mistake when typing. But I think if you pay attention to the content of my post, it's pretty obvious what I was talking about.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

she-la-ti-da said:


> Price the book as you think best, but .99, 2.99, or 8.99, it's not going to make any difference. If all people read is 100 pages, and the payout is one cent per page read (or whatever it ends up being that month, but I'm guessing it will be a penny a page, possibly two cents).


Not all the sales will be KU borrows, the price still makes a big difference when there is a regular purchase


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Pricing a KU title is a tricky endeavor. You want sales to help boost rank, but you don't want to make less than you could. Each genre is different, and I suggest you monitor yours to figure out what happens to be the going rate.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> I meant you're getting $0.35 per sale, but had borrows on the mind and made a mistake when typing. But I think if you pay attention to the content of my post, it's pretty obvious what I was talking about.


I get you. I actually did read your post, but it was a bit confusing. Just in case there were newbies reading who aren't up on all the nuances and might have missed it, I thought it was best to clarify. I'd hope that if I'd made the same mistake, someone would have caught it for me. But whatever, no worries.



geronl said:


> Not all the sales will be KU borrows, the price still makes a big difference when there is a regular purchase


Well, actually, no sales will be borrows, so in regards to how borrows will be (apparently) calculated, the sales price doesn't matter in that respect.

How one prices a book takes in many factors, including length, genre, and the magic point for a particular work that brings in the most sales.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

I may have missed it, but was there a working definition of "serial" for the purposes of this thread? I'm writing an ongoing series of what I guess are short novels at about 40k words a piece. I'm closing in on finishing the first six, with the next four in short outline format and one sentence loglines for another 20 or so. Is this thread more focused on shorter serials?

I don't think I'd do collections, unless I did them in 5 book chunks or something, which seems arbitrary. I thought about doing season breaks, but even 10 episodes would be some 400,000 words and that feels really unwieldy for a print omnibus (not to mention how I'd price such a thing).

Anyway, just rambly thoughts.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

My books in my 'POI' series are 55K to 65K in length, #5, which I'm writing now, will be 70K.
I started out at $2.99 for the first book, and went up to $3.99 for the third and on.

Do you folks think I'm undercharging? 
Book one has over 10K in sales in the 9 months since it came out, with most of that having been in the first 5 (Think I need to advertise it again) and I have a pretty good buy-through rate, each subsequent book sells at least 4K copies in the month it comes out.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Vanistry - you can try pricing higher and see how it goes.
Now, I wrote in march a short story of 3.4 k words. i wrote it only to catch email sign-ups and included my reader magnets at the front and back. I published it fro free everywhere through D2D.
I named it The Witch's Kiss - The Everlasting Battle Between the Dark and the Light Side.
I gave the story to subscribers coming from my paid titles. It was performing quite well without any paid promotion. I received organically 8 positive reviews and only one 2 star review.
I saw that there is interest and wrote the next episode; I updated the covers, any idea why on my author signature they are not being updated, though I re-pasted the ASINs?) Anyway, I wrote the next episode - it tuned out to be 13. 5 words. There are in both parts cliffhangers. I set the second one as a pre-order on Amazon, B&N, Apple. I received 9 pre-orders on Amazon and a few on B&N even - only one from a relative of mine - the rest from my email list. Now, I priced the 2nd episode 1.59 but on the description is written - for a limited time; I also announced it to my email list. 
I intend to price at least for a month the second episode at 2.99. I am a bit scared that the book won't be that much but I have seen a lot of 60-70 pages books and the first episode is after all free. When I haev the third episode I might lower the price for the 2nd one.
marketing campaign - email list +FB ads. I purchased Mark Dawson's course and it's time to dig into the nice stuff.
My intention for the first 10 days is to advertise the free episode 1 on promo sites - not intending to spend more than 100$, though. I wonder how well will that result in the sales of the next one? I know between 2.5 to 5% go to the next episode/book in a series/serial.
I'll release the next one in the autumn. I am slower since I don't write in English an translation and editing it takes lot of time.
Perry - you are working a day job + you manage to write 1000-2000 k words per day? I am amazed. Do you have a social life?


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Jim Johnson said:


> I may have missed it, but was there a working definition of "serial" for the purposes of this thread? I'm writing an ongoing series of what I guess are short novels at about 40k words a piece. I'm closing in on finishing the first six, with the next four in short outline format and one sentence loglines for another 20 or so. Is this thread more focused on shorter serials?
> 
> I don't think I'd do collections, unless I did them in 5 book chunks or something, which seems arbitrary. I thought about doing season breaks, but even 10 episodes would be some 400,000 words and that feels really unwieldy for a print omnibus (not to mention how I'd price such a thing).
> 
> Anyway, just rambly thoughts.


A serial and a series are two totally different things. A serial is a story told over a few to several books / installments; for the most part serials contain cliffhangers at the end of each installment and each of these installments are part of a broader story arc.

The novels you are writing appear to fit more into the series category.

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2015)

Have people given up on serials because of the KU news? I hope not. No one has added to this thread in a few days...

Well, I'm still plugging away. I published my second installment tonight. I have 3 days of bknights promos starting tomorrow and a FB ad. So we shall see. I am also giving 25% of royalties this weekend to the Mother Emanuel AME Church Hope Fund. I love my city and hope even my paltry royalties can help in some way.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

I have three out now! (Last 3 in my sig) Working on episode four... sort of... but the upcoming KUpocalypse has forced me to concentrate on some other things for now, not related to writing length -- such as dusting off some nearly-dones and getting them publishing, making some coherence out of my scattered pen name (I have three names... probably should give up on one or two of them), spiffing up a lot of covers and blurbs, doing maintenance on back matter...

Fun times. 

Good luck with your promos, Alison! That's awesome that you're donating some of your royalties.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> Have people given up on serials because of the KU news? I hope not. No one has added to this thread in a few days...


No, and it never crossed my mind to give up on serials because of KU. 

Episodes one and two of my five episode serial (season one) will be published in August. My cover artist is getting to work on the covers.


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

With KU payments eventually leveling off at about a penny a page (arguably), serials and other shorter books will require a massive volume of work in order to make decent money.

Forgoing KU and selling the serials for full price in KDP would seem to be more profitable.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Still sticking with my police procedural serial because it's been years in the making. But I won't be enrolling it in KU. Going wide with a perma-free, maybe two, and pricing them at $1.99 (20k word each).


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2015)

Julianna said:


> With KU payments eventually leveling off at about a penny a page (arguably), serials and other shorter books will require a massive volume of work in order to make decent money.
> 
> Forgoing KU and selling the serials for full price in KDP would seem to be more profitable.


I'm selling each of my serial episodes for 99 cents. The regular Amazon royalty on that, as you know, is only 35 cents. Because nobody at Kboards has the facts on exactly what the KU royalty will be, I'll find out for myself if my serials earn at least that much per borrow or more.


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## RubyMadden (Jun 11, 2014)

BelleAC said:


> Have people given up on serials because of the KU news? I hope not. No one has added to this thread in a few days...


Not I! Readers are still reading serials and pages read are pages read! I will keep writing them...


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BelleAC said:


> Have people given up on serials because of the KU news? I hope not. No one has added to this thread in a few days...


I'm certainly not. Arkham Knight came out last Tuesday so I've been pretty MIA from KBoards.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

Julianna said:


> With KU payments eventually leveling off at about a penny a page (arguably), serials and other shorter books will require a massive volume of work in order to make decent money.
> 
> Forgoing KU and selling the serials for full price in KDP would seem to be more profitable.


Welcome to KBoards, Julianna.

I suggest you do the math before making statements like "massive volume of work to make decent money".

We write 35-40K serial installments. If one makes the reasonable assumptions that:

1 The pay rate per "page" will be the low-side penny many (but not me) expect;

2 And the per page equivalent in words will come in at around 250 per page;

then that would mean a payment of $1.40 for a 100% read Borrow. Macht nichts.

Yes, that calls for a 100% read, but the thing with serials is *that's what one tends to get if the reader sticks with the evolving story arc*. Not the case with standalones.

Plus the added promo benefits with KSelect, the added rankings bumps from the Borrows (no matter how many pages are read, apparently,) and the likely higher rate of "conversion" of borrowers to buyers when the next set of parts is published in a boxed set.

The truly short titles will take a serious hit under the new scheme, on the face of it. But even they need to factor in these KSelect "extras" before simply jumping ship, IMO: for many, the total revenue per title may well be more than from going wide.

Just my (probably) 1.5 cents


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> I may have missed it, but was there a working definition of "serial" for the purposes of this thread? I'm writing an ongoing series of what I guess are short novels at about 40k words a piece. I'm closing in on finishing the first six, with the next four in short outline format and one sentence loglines for another 20 or so. Is this thread more focused on shorter serials?
> 
> I don't think I'd do collections, unless I did them in 5 book chunks or something, which seems arbitrary. I thought about doing season breaks, but even 10 episodes would be some 400,000 words and that feels really unwieldy for a print omnibus (not to mention how I'd price such a thing).
> 
> Anyway, just rambly thoughts.


The way I look at it, serials are like TV episodes. There is usually an over-arcing storyline for each "season", which can also be carried into the next season, with each individual story carrying that on while solving its own arc. They aren't meant to be read out of order, and often have what are commonly called cliffhangers, where there is something exciting to entice the reader to continue. Episodes are usually shorter, novella-length on down to around 8K words (I've seen some folks who have shorter, though).

Series are books/novellas that have something in common: characters, location, plot, etc. They can sometimes be read out of order, but are usually best when done in order. Sometimes they have an over-all arc (the series I'm working on does), but sometimes not.

It can be confusing, eh? I put a link in an earlier post that has a lot of stuff about serials, which I found very helpful when I was trying to get the differences into my own head.



Julianna said:


> With KU payments eventually leveling off at about a penny a page (arguably), serials and other shorter books will require a massive volume of work in order to make decent money.
> 
> Forgoing KU and selling the serials for full price in KDP would seem to be more profitable.


Everything I have in KU is priced the same as it would be anywhere else. Sales price has nothing to do with the borrow rate, so it wouldn't make sense to price lower just because of borrow/no borrow potential.

I feel that payment will eventually level out at a penny per page, but I'm willing to be proved wrong and it stays much higher. That would be very nice. 

I look at KU as an exposure machine. If being able to borrow my books makes them more interesting to new readers, I'm glad. If they like the book, then they may buy more of my work. My plan is to put everything in KU/Select for one run (90 days), then go wide, unless the borrow rate is equivalent to what I get now. I may leave stuff in for longer, or go wide depending on how it works out.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> This, and nice to see you around again Jolie.
> 
> I have 4 serials in the works, plus 2 novels planned for later in the year (one a Punk spin-off) - time, damn you time!
> 
> I'm excited about the opportunity of KU, so have no plans to try to compensate with higher prices or book lengths. I'm writing what I want, how I want, and hopefully I'll find an audience - I don't have any plans on changing that strategy any time soon - I'm having fun.


Hello P.J.! 

It sounds like you're as busy as I am! Let's both have an awesome rest of 2015. Let's make this happen!


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2015)

sinapse said:


> Yes, that calls for a 100% read, but the thing with serials is *that's what one tends to get if the reader sticks with the evolving story arc*. Not the case with standalones.
> 
> Plus the added promo benefits with KSelect, the added rankings bumps from the Borrows (no matter how many pages are read, apparently,) and the likely higher rate of "conversion" of borrowers to buyers when the next set of parts is published in a boxed set.
> 
> The truly short titles will take a serious hit under the new scheme, on the face of it. But even they need to factor in these KSelect "extras" before simply jumping ship, IMO: for many, the total revenue per title may well be more than from going wide.


This. 100 percent. What I've been thinking since Amazon made the announcement.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2015)

she-la-ti-da said:


> The way I look at it, serials are like TV episodes. There is usually an over-arcing storyline for each "season", which can also be carried into the next season, with each individual story carrying that on while solving its own arc. They aren't meant to be read out of order, and often have what are commonly called cliffhangers, where there is something exciting to entice the reader to continue. Episodes are usually shorter, novella-length on down to around 8K words (I've seen some folks who have shorter, though).
> 
> Series are books/novellas that have something in common: characters, location, plot, etc. They can sometimes be read out of order, but are usually best when done in order. Sometimes they have an over-all arc (the series I'm working on does), but sometimes not.


Excellent explanation. 



> I look at KU as an exposure machine. If being able to borrow my books makes them more interesting to new readers, I'm glad. If they like the book, then they may buy more of my work. My plan is to put everything in KU/Select for one run (90 days), then go wide, unless the borrow rate is equivalent to what I get now. I may leave stuff in for longer, or go wide depending on how it works out.


Yeah, I had planned to make my upcoming novel wide from the start, but lately I've been thinking that I'll do KU for 90 days and then pull it out of KU and go wide. But for my serial, definitely KU from the start.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2015)

So I woke up to the exciting news that I am currently #19 for YA short reads for the new book! Woot! And my first book is free the next 3 days so I am hoping that helps.


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## AmieStuart (Oct 25, 2013)

P.J. Post said:


> After careful analysis of of everything that's been discussed here and on the net at large about the new KU borrow rates, and after further careful consideration...I'm not changing anything.


Totally OT but PJ I love your covers!!!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

BelleAC said:


> So I woke up to the exciting news that I am currently #19 for YA short reads for the new book! Woot! And my first book is free the next 3 days so I am hoping that helps.


Woo-hoo, that's awesome! Congrats!!


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I have a serial coming out starting July. I am hoping to earn about $1 a borrow for the first few months. I'm at 20k words/installment and I'm assuming Amazon will be generous with the new KU payout for the first few months.

If I had known about the change, I would have done a three part series with each book at 2.99 or maybe .99, 2.99, 2.99 instead of four parts at .99 each!

I am only planning on doing a spin off if I meet a certain sales threshold. Because I won't know my borrow rate with KU, I made the threshold a pure money thing. I have had very good feedback with several betas asking for more, and I really enjoyed writing my first serial, but at the end of the day, money talks!


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

sinapse said:


> Yes, that calls for a 100% read, but the thing with serials is *that's what one tends to get if the reader sticks with the evolving story arc*. Not the case with standalones.


Thanks for explaining this. I recently read on K. Mathews blog, http://kmatthewbooks.com/flesh-part-fourteen/, that the short writers were gonna lose quite a bit of money. Maybe she was referring to erotica standalones?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm not sure lose money is the best description. We're just not going to make as much as we did with the old system. I think. But we won't really know until the page rate comes out. If it's 1 cent a page I'll be making a significant amount less with 50 page installments.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Question concerning chapter format: my four-part serial has installments of 20K each and is working out to be approximately ten chapters in each. Ive been following the usual, "Chapter One", "Chapter Two" naming format etc., but am wondering if this is best or not. Since I'm ending each installment with a cliffhanger and will be picking up right where I left in each new installment, should the second installment start at "Chapter Eleven" or would it be best to simply srart a fresh new set of chapters in my second installmeny by starting with "Chapter One" again?

How's everyone else going about this?

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks, Jolie. I've decided not to panic about the KU changes. We won't know how it works out for months, so no need to make hasty decisions, right?

Fictionista, I've seen folks who do the chapters both ways:  some start over at one for each episode, and others just carry on throughout. I think this is one of those things were serials are still relatively new, so no one really knows a "best" way to do it. You might want to check out similar serials to yours and see how the author numbers chapters. And of course, either do it the same way, or whatever you feel best


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

BelleAC said:


> Have people given up on serials because of the KU news? I hope not. No one has added to this thread in a few days...
> 
> Well, I'm still plugging away. I published my second installment tonight. I have 3 days of bknights promos starting tomorrow and a FB ad. So we shall see. I am also giving 25% of royalties this weekend to the Mother Emanuel AME Church Hope Fund. I love my city and hope even my paltry royalties can help in some way.


Yup, I'm afraid I have. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't see the point now. I've changed my outline to my planned serial so that Season One will now be one complete novel instead of ten episodes, and _Season Two_ will now be_ Book Two_ in the series.


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

Evenstar said:


> Yup, I'm afraid I have. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't see the point now. I've changed my outline to my planned serial so that Season One will now be one complete novel instead of ten episodes, and _Season Two_ will now be_ Book Two_ in the series.


It'll still work for me, I think. Planning to launch my first episode of my space opera serial on July 7th. The first season is 14 episodes, each one between 20-30K, so all of them over 100 pages. I can't personally justify charging more than .99 cents an episode, but with episodes that long, KU definitely still works for me. Even at half a penny per page I would still make more from a borrow than I would from a sale, and with a biweekly release schedule it'll take seven months to release the whole season, at which point I can pull out of KU and go wide with the collected omnibuses (of which there will be two, seven episodes per volume).


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## RubyMadden (Jun 11, 2014)

sinapse said:


> Welcome to KBoards, Julianna.
> 
> I suggest you do the math before making statements like "massive volume of work to make decent money".
> 
> ...


THIS. I agree... I believe that a serialized story actually stands a better 'read-through-to-completion' ratio / average overall as compared to novels. Yes, there won't be as many pages to read, true - but I'm looking at this the same way that you are. I'm not going to upset the apple cart by pulling my serialized stories out of KU just yet. I want DATA. I want to see the #'s and pages read for July & August before I make any knee-jerk decisions. I truly believe the KU program works great for series, serials and serialized stories in general. The readers prove pretty loyal, imho.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Think I'll push each episode to 25k words, make the first one free, and charge $2.99 for the other ones. Anything less doesn't seem worth it. You have to sell a ton to make any real money. If only make $350 for every 1,000 copies.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> Think I'll push each episode to 25k words, make the first one free, and charge $2.99 for the other ones. Anything less doesn't seem worth it. You have to sell a ton to make any real money. If only make $350 for every 1,000 copies.


You also have to consider season compilations, which some readers would prefer.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

Well my Mil Sci Fi serial was coming along nicely and I have made many changes and reworks thanks to the kind information provided by everyone here,

At 10-12 K each I thought that was enough.  I may be wrong.  But not knowing any better I will release with that and 6 episodes at $1.99 each (first free).

If anyone has anything else different to add or serious suggestions just let me know........
tg


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

tomgermann said:


> Well my Mil Sci Fi serial was coming along nicely and I have made many changes and reworks thanks to the kind information provided by everyone here,
> 
> At 10-12 K each I thought that was enough. I may be wrong. But not knowing any better I will release with that and 6 episodes at $1.99 each (first free).
> 
> ...


While there are exceptions to every rule, most people I know (and myself) have found that while $1.99 seems a perfectly reasonable and logical price point that should serve a specific niche for works too long to want to sell at .99 cents and too short to justify 2.99 - in practice its a black hole. Readers just don't seem to like it, for whatever subconscious reason they see it and pass it by. I very rarely hear of people doing well with that particular price point. Just FYI.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> You also have to consider season compilations, which some readers would prefer.


True, maybe I'll go for $1.99 even though it's a black hole (think I can overcome it with a strong first book and permafree), and make most of my money on bundles.

Or maybe I'll stick with $2.99, and price the six book bundle at $6.99. That's a major savings, could force people into buying the 150,000 box set lol


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Kalen ODonnell said:


> While there are exceptions to every rule, most people I know (and myself) have found that while $1.99 seems a perfectly reasonable and logical price point that should serve a specific niche for works too long to want to sell at .99 cents and too short to justify 2.99 - in practice its a black hole. Readers just don't seem to like it, for whatever subconscious reason they see it and pass it by. I very rarely hear of people doing well with that particular price point. Just FYI.


This is my strategy: Release at $0.99. Then later up the price to $1.99. The reason is because it makes the bundle look more attractive.

Consider a season of five episodes with the first permafree and the other episodes $0.99. That's a total of $4 to get the entire first season. You'd have to charge $2.99 to make the compilation look like an attractive deal, and even then it's not as attractive as it could be.

Now consider the first permafree and the other episodes $1.99. That means all the individual episodes would cost about $8. That gives you a lot more wiggle room with pricing the compilation. If you make the compilation $3.99 or $4.99, then that looks much more attractive because you can offer the entire season for basically 50% off the individual episodes. And at 70% royalty rate, you're making around $3-4 a sale. Everyone wins.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> Have people given up on serials because of the KU news? I hope not. No one has added to this thread in a few days...
> 
> Well, I'm still plugging away. I published my second installment tonight. I have 3 days of bknights promos starting tomorrow and a FB ad. So we shall see. I am also giving 25% of royalties this weekend to the Mother Emanuel AME Church Hope Fund. I love my city and hope even my paltry royalties can help in some way.


Still plugging away as well. I started down this path, and I intend to finish. I'll be releasing an omnibus eventually anyway, and I see no reason why I shouldn't make it possible for readers to follow the story, step by step, while I write it. Releasing a serial still gives me the advantage of a faster release schedule, and having more books gives me the option of using price funneling strategies.

Also, my books are full novella length, not novelettes, and I don't think the per-page pay-rate is going to be as bad as many others do. I'm actually fairly optimistic.

The only issue bothering me is time. I'm gonna be little late with my second installment for sure (I'm already late, actually) but I never promised an exact date for the next book, mostly because I know my way of working doesn't allow me to be that precise. Sometimes stuff goes fast, and sometimes it just doesn't. I think I'll be able to release it pretty soon (1 or 2 weeks) which will put me in the right general ballpark. I may adjust my back matter info so that it specifically says "approximately 4 to 6 weeks" " just to be more realistic and precise.

I did go back down to 0.99 on my price for now, mostly because I've decided to charge 2.99 for the rest of the books, and I want to make sure the first book is a really easy entry point in every way imaginable. If amazon would let me make it free without dropping out of KDP, I would do it in a heartbeat, and I might eventually decide to go wide and make it permafree if the new KDP thing doesn't work out favorably.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2015)

she-la-ti-da said:


> Thanks, Jolie. I've decided not to panic about the KU changes. We won't know how it works out for months, so no need to make hasty decisions, right?


No panicking here. Not my style.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2015)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> True, maybe I'll go for $1.99 even though it's a black hole (think I can overcome it with a strong first book and permafree), and make most of my money on bundles.
> 
> Or maybe I'll stick with $2.99, and price the six book bundle at $6.99. That's a major savings, could force people into buying the 150,000 box set lol


I'm in a zombie box set that's $1.99. It's been consistently ranking below 5K since it was released. Currently, the ranking is 3,515. So "black hole" doesn't apply to everything that's $1.99.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I'm in a zombie box set that's $1.99. It's been consistently ranking below 5K since it was released. Currently, the ranking is 3,515. So "black hole" doesn't apply to everything that's $1.99.


Good to hear. I'll probably go with that price. Can always bump it down


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Let's keep the conversation going, get some data, and see how the new landscapes shakes out - and try to have some fun along the way. No need to panic just yet.


There's a number of authors on Kboards with turbans and crystal balls.

Nice for the people who go for that, but I'll wait for the facts.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2015)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> Good to hear. I'll probably go with that price. Can always bump it down


Cool!


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

P.J. Post said:


> The change in royalties, which is still an unknown quantity, seems to be overshadowing the known marketing benefit of dramatically increasing visibility by publishing every 2 weeks (or more), and having the Zon algos working in your favor, which is odd considering the fact that the per page royalty is likely to be inflated in the very near term. Additionally, many of us have novels right along side our serials - that's new discoverability for our novels with every new serial release which extends the demand curve on both new serials and backlists.
> 
> Why change anything before we have data to support a new strategy?
> 
> ...


Yes, all of this. 

It's definitely a huge change, but we don't know ANYTHING yet. There's a mind-boggling amount of speculation, and an equally mind-boggling number of people who are taking the speculation as gospel -- and either deciding right now that they're going to be extra-rich, or they are doomed forever and the sky is falling and Amazon is selling all of our souls to the devil as we speak.

It does truly suck that we won't have much to work with in order to make this decision. Come July 1-ish, we'll get "pages read," which doesn't mean anything by itself. Then we wait until August 15 to find out how much we'll get per page read, and historical Select performance indicates that number will be nowhere near stable.

This is all a great big dice roll no matter what way you look at it. I just happen to be willing to roll the dice and take my chances. (I totally have +10 stamina. Now, if only there was a beneficial "stubborn" stat...because boy, have I got plenty of that. )


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

For me the wait and see approach to the new KU doesn't work. August 15 is too far away. It'd be easier to make a choice if amazon just dropped the stupid "pot" formula and said, "We're paying "X" per page." Waiting makes sense if you're making five figures from KU (I'm pulling in only $3,000-$4,000), and you have a bunch of novels.

But most of my stuff is 50 pages long (I have a few 7 book bundles that are as long as novels). For me, it's a guaranteed loss ($2,700 vs. $1,000 for 2,000 borrows). Luckily, my books will sell no matter what since kids love them. Also it broke my heart to walk away from Google Play. My income was going up monthly there. They don't have any 30-day cliffs or crazy algorithm changes. Your book can stay at the top FOREVER with the right keywords. If I play my cards right, my GP earnings will surpass Amazon's by December.

Like everything on here, it's different for each author 

*On Topic*: I'm sticking with short books and serials for now because it's what I like to read. The _average_ novel bores me, to slow and packed with filler.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> No panicking here. Not my style.


I need a tiara.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2015)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> It's definitely a huge change, but we don't know ANYTHING yet. There's a mind-boggling amount of speculation, and an equally mind-boggling number of people who are taking the speculation as gospel . . .


And a mind-boggling amount of offensive comments toward authors of short works by authors of long works, and a mind-boggling amount of scare tactics toward authors who are in KU by authors who are not in KU, and a mind-boggling amount of arrogance, self-importance and bravado by authors who are selling well toward authors who aren't selling so well . . .

I'm back at Kboards, but it didn't take long for me to be reminded of why I left.

But the information in this thread for serial authors and authors, like me, who will be publishing a serial for the first time has been invaluable. That's what makes Kboards worth it for me.

Thank you for this thread.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Jolie, I'm duct-taping my tiara on so I don't lose during the next couple of months. I have a feeling it's going to be a bumpy ride. 

P J, that's a sensible way of thinking of things, but I can see how others might not be able to stick with the program to see how things work out.


D. Zollicoffer, like most things in this crazy world of self-publishing, everybody is going to have to chose their own path. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it rolls, right?

I do think the decision making would have been easier if there had been a bit more warning about the changes, though. Two weeks to make a huge business decision like this is pretty terrifying. Getting traction on other sites can take time and lots of effort, so leaving KU without knowing how the new payout system is going to work out is a big gamble.

Right or wrong, I've set my sails for the immediate future. I guess I'll see if my crystal ball is any more accurate this time. So far, I've been behind the trends, but who knows? This new scheme could be a winner for me.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> ...
> But the information in this thread for serial authors and authors, like me, who will be publishing a serial for the first time has been invaluable. That's what makes Kboards worth it for me.
> 
> Thank you for this thread.


I agree. I'm jumping into the serial world in July, so I've learned a lot from this thread.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> And a mind-boggling amount of offensive comments toward authors of short works by authors of long works, and a mind-boggling amount of scare tactics toward authors who are in KU by authors who are not in KU, and a mind-boggling amount of arrogance, self-importance and bravado by authors who are selling well toward authors who aren't selling so well . . .
> 
> I'm back at Kboards, but it didn't take long for me to be reminded of why I left.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad this thread is helpful! I agree -- all of that is going on now, and it's sad. If there's one thing every indie author should've realized by now, it's the stress on INDEPENDENT. No one path is right for everyone -- strategies that work for some, don't work for others, and vice versa. And no one should feel bad about choosing the path they're on, because there's something for everyone up in this business. 



Will C. Brown said:


> I agree. I'm jumping into the serial world in July, so I've learned a lot from this thread.


Good luck to you! I'm very new at this serial thing too, so it seems there's a lot of us here who'll be learning about it together. 



she-la-ti-da said:


> Right or wrong, I've set my sails for the immediate future. I guess I'll see if my crystal ball is any more accurate this time. So far, I've been behind the trends, but who knows? This new scheme could be a winner for me.


Oh goodness, that is so me. Always one step behind the trends. I *just missed* absolutely everything so far... LOL. The only thing I've been consistent about is publishing the best stories I possibly can -- so I'll just keep doing that now, only (hopefully) faster.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> The change in royalties, which is still an unknown quantity, seems to be overshadowing the known marketing benefit of dramatically increasing visibility by publishing every 2 weeks (or more), and having the Zon algos working in your favor, which is odd considering the fact that the per page royalty is likely to be inflated in the very near term. Additionally, many of us have novels right along side our serials - that's new discoverability for our novels with every new serial release which extends the demand curve on both new serials and backlists.
> ....
> 
> I think the situation (and the resulting strategic opportunity) is more complex than what the new per page pay-out is vs the old per borrow rate. We don't even know an actual page count on how long our books are going to be in the new scheme, how much of our books are read on average or how frequent releases are going be addressed by Zon in the new algos, which are changing all over the place, including the new review and ranking systems.


^^^These points. Reasoning ranks. Thanks, P.J.!

Amazon is making this change for business reasons that far overshadow the economic significance such as it is of KSelect and the Indies who participate in it, or don't. The KU pot is less that 1/10 of one percent of the 'Zon's revenue. But the subscribers are a precious core customer segment. That needs to be the lynchpin in our strategies, too. Engage, entertain and satisfy the readers. Period.

The sub-text of many comments over these past two weeks is that the presumably trashy and undeserving erotica shorts are being (rightfully, in the eyes of many) "punished" for not adhering to this "engage etc" dictum. Bull-pucky. *Those writers were playing the KU game as it was designed by the Amazon puppet masters*. Now, we'll see what happens when the long brains of those short stories turn to serial formats and 10 to 20K installments and play this new game.

Should I and others be proven correct, and erotica and erotic romance writers succeed at this KU 2.0 game as they did with version 1.0, then they'll be claiming possibly an even larger share of the new pot.

Why? Because the real pros among those writers have the "engagement, entertain, satisfy" routine down. I mean *down*. None of us understand the meaning of *percentage completion* better than those folks do! Spoiler alert: the "new" KU is going to be an even sexier venue than the old one.

And our puppet masters? Well, they'll be out celebrating while all of us are writing and pubbing all sorts of series and serials until our fingers fall off. As they should be, too. They'll have all of us nouveau Dickens working away like the dickens, for no net added per word cost. They'll have reshaped KU into a much more appealing place for those critically important key customers to spend even more time on the Amazon platform! While pulling many long-form writers back into exclusive-ville, and bumming out the main competitors.

And, as P.J. reminds us, those of us toiling away in the Unlimited vineyard will be benefiting too, not so much from borrow revenues, as from sales of (now) more discoverable longer titles, to (now) new thousands of KU subscribers.

If it wasn't so early in the day, I'd drink a toast to P.J. OP and all of us. [looks around] Oh, what the hell!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> A serial and a series are two totally different things. A serial is a story told over a few to several books / installments; for the most part serials contain cliffhangers at the end of each installment and each of these installments are part of a broader story arc.
> 
> The novels you are writing appear to fit more into the series category.


Right, I knew all that.  I just wasn't sure if series writers were welcome in the thread or if this is more about serials. I think it's more about serials but I'll continue to lurk.

I'm hoping there's a market for a series consisting of 40k word novel episodes that aren't later collected into an omnibus.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> Right, I knew all that.  I just wasn't sure if series writers were welcome in the thread or if this is more about serials. I think it's more about serials but I'll continue to lurk.
> 
> I'm hoping there's a market for a series consisting of 40k word novel episodes that aren't later collected into an omnibus.


Of course you're welcome here!  Some of the advice that works for serials may work for series too, and the other way around.

I have a romance series that are all 35-40K words in addition to the new serial (and a different novella series, and a series of novels, and a couple of loosely connected other things, and one random lonely non-fiction title that is shockingly not about writing) -- all over the place, I am.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

S.W. Vaughn said:


> Of course you're welcome here!  Some of the advice that works for serials may work for series too, and the other way around.
> 
> I have a romance series that are all 35-40K words in addition to the new serial (and a different novella series, and a series of novels, and a couple of loosely connected other things, and one random lonely non-fiction title that is shockingly not about writing) -- all over the place, I am.


Woop! So with your romance series, are you collecting installments into omnibuses?


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> Woop! So with your romance series, are you collecting installments into omnibuses?


Well... I've bundled the first three so far, but it's doing squat compared to the individual titles (I have 6 books in the series out so far).  So I think I'll not bother with any more bundling unless for some reason people start asking for it.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

Agree that you and all other writers are welcome here.



Jim Johnson said:


> I'm hoping there's a market for a series consisting of 40k word novel episodes that aren't later collected into an omnibus.


That's a hot question for us, too. We're totally focused through July on launching a new serialized novella series with a continuing story arc. But by August we will publish the first titles in a new *series* that consists of *serialized* *stand alone* long novellas or short novels (35 to 45K total). The completed set would be released as a mini-series box.

Our working plan was NOT to then collect the finished mini-serials in some larger omnibus, and keep them as stand alones. The compromise was that all these will be under one identifiable "imprint" to denote each as a title in the overall series. Whew! Our main thrust is to help the discoverability of each finished mini-series.

Two points: Our general scheme *doesn't require* that each novella be published in parts; we are comfortable writing them this way, and we want the KU readers to be able to absorb a "part" easily and quickly, and *feel they have read a complete story with each installment*. IE, your standalone novel would be the same in terms of being linked to a series identity (and its mood and tone and specific sub-genre appeal.)

Secondly, the new KU payout is definitely making us look more closely at ways to make the stand alones serve as pathways into the rest of the catalog. One way we can see is to tell a new story using several of the main characters from a previous title. Even combining characters from two or more previous titles in a new adventure. Another is to set the stand alones in a common milieu or setting. This would let us put, say, three into a "Chronicles of..." type compendium, and still maintain the overall series imprint. Branding counts!

We're exploring asking several quality writers to write one or more of these 35-50K mini-serials, set within the common world we're creating. They would not be ghosting, but writing "with" us and then sharing in the future compendium action.

Is there a market? Well, all our focus is on erom, so that's not a question for us. But our "packaging" structure would probably be applicable to sci-fi or fantasy or other genres. We're not really doing anything new here, except designing the structure for the KU 2.0 arena.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

sinapse said:


> ^^^These points. Reasoning ranks. Thanks, P.J.!
> 
> Amazon is making this change for business reasons that far overshadow the economic significance such as it is of KSelect and the Indies who participate in it, or don't. The KU pot is less that 1/10 of one percent of the 'Zon's revenue. But the subscribers are a precious core customer segment. That needs to be the lynchpin in our strategies, too. Engage, entertain and satisfy the readers. Period.
> 
> ...


^^^^ALL. OF. THIS.^^^^


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

^^ Just want to add to sinapse's great comment by adding that the writers who continue to study and learn and improve their craft, and continue to write more stories and make them available, are going to continue to grow their readership. More writing and more study = better writing. Getting to that high percentage completion rate isn't just about marketing and targeting your readers; it's also providing better story, better characters, better depth, just an overall better reading experience, than others in your genre.

Fun times!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Well, since we're all here...
> 
> Like many of you, I have two serials about to go live. What is everyone's thoughts on Pre-Orders for Serials, including first episodes?
> 
> ...


At the risk of being accused of raining on your great question, after doing a whole mess of the studying that Jim mentions, in early May I pulled our planned initial series launch plan for June. Not due to KU 2.0 since that was a month in the future. No, we became converts to the "Liliana" tactic of launching an entire series at once. I wrote a number of posts on it over the past month or two, and here's Hugh Howey's blog post that started the discussions last year:

http://www.hughhowey.com/the-liliana-nirvana-technique/

With tbis technique, pre-orders are not really that useful, so I'm told. I will fade into oblivion now and come back and read what you all come up with for when our "all in" type launch fails us.

Best of luck.


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

P.J. Post said:


> Well, since we're all here...
> 
> Like many of you, I have two serials about to go live. What is everyone's thoughts on Pre-Orders for Serials, including first episodes?
> 
> ...


I can't speak to the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of preorders, since I've only used it once so far and swore I'd never do it again (because I did it to give myself a deadline ... put the preorder up before the book was actually finished and ended up uploading the completed final file ONE HOUR before the deadline). So, a little tangent there and a word of advice: Do not do preorders for books that are not yet written. 

But. I do know that if you put the preorder up for a certain price (say $2.99) and then immediately lower the price when the book goes live (say, to 99 cents), then all the people who ordered the preorder will pay only 99 cents for it, and you will only get 35 cents in royalties. Amazon gives preorders the "best price available," which includes the price at launch.

And -- you can advertise serials with Bknights, Genre Pulse, Sweet Free Books, Ebookhounds, and that's all I've got figured out so far (those are all the places I was accepted with mine  )

Good luck with your launches!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Well, since we're all here...
> 
> Like many of you, I have two serials about to go live. What is everyone's thoughts on Pre-Orders for Serials, including first episodes?
> 
> And if you think they are worth using...


I got a lot of preorders for my third zombie book, but that was a third book in a series. Immediately after the preorders, the ranking for the book was good - below 10K - but that didn't last long. Preorders have not gone well for my upcoming standalone novel (to be published in July.) I've never done a serial. So I can't give you my experience on that. I know that after my novel goes live, I probably won't do preorders again.

Good luck with everything, P.J. I'm looking forward to my serials (to be published the first week in August) along with everything else I'm doing.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Interesting. I plan on incorporating fan feedback into the serial episodes, so i can't exactly write them ahead of time, besides I can't wait that long to publish - it's exciting NOW. Seriously, who has that kind of patience?


I'll have two or three of the five episodes for my season one written when I start publishing the serial in August. But that's as far ahead as I'll go. I need to give my editor time to edit what I've written.

If my season one does well, I'll be immediately releasing more seasons. But I'm publishing a series (not serial) in November, and when that happens I'm releasing all three books of the series at once.

In any case, every month I'll have something published, whatever it may be. I plan to reach my fiction writing goals by publishing frequently.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> I plan on incorporating fan feedback into the serial episodes, so i can't exactly write them ahead of time, besides I can't wait that long to publish - it's exciting NOW. Seriously, who has that kind of patience?
> 
> 'YMMV', obviously, but I think there is definitely something to publishing frequently, the one in the hole strategy.


The fan feedback idea is a good one! We see that in our flagship series, which is scheduled for fall, and which does NOT involve the smaller installments of the lead-out serial. The flagship is full scale novellas, 35Kish. As for patience, the first two novellas in that series are finished, but must not be published into a void. It's not a question of patience, PJ, rather of business. We are seeing better now that *pre*-promotion is possibly even more important then the launch itself.

As to frequency, I didn't mean to imply a choice between publishing in the "Liliana" waves as opposed to publishing often. We have adapted the Liliana by cutting the number in each "release group" to just *three* (as opposed to the large batches she and later authors have used.) That will let us deliver a new "Volume" of three to the gradually building audience approximately every 6 weeks. So we get reasonably high frequency as well as the benefits of the mini-series blast.

BTW, as we get experience with this, I will definitely be looking again at preorders for the follow-on sets of threes. We'll also be considering preorders for the boxed editions of each set of three.

Hope that has totally messed up your planning! Dickens knows it's hard to lay out a production plan for this more regimented approach. And of course this won't be useful for writers who rely on inspiration and/or don't wish to get "married" to a series concept and the resulting time and target release commitments. Many literally hate planning, fearing the loss of artistic freedom. I get it.

But for our goals, this disciplined approach is the only way to get us where we want to be by year-end and through 2016.


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## Paul Huxley (Feb 27, 2014)

I haven't read through the entirety of this megathread so apologies if I'm bringing something up that's already been discussed.

I was wondering about covers for serials. All covers cost a bit of money to make (if you want to do them right) so if you have ten episodes in one season that's ten different covers. Unless the author is doing it themselves, then the costs can stack up. Is it a good idea to stick with a template then just switch out a new title, maybe even just the episode number? The problem then is that everything looks the same and might get confusing for a potential reader. 

What ways have other Kboarders tackled this problem?


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Paul Huxley said:


> I haven't read through the entirety of this megathread so apologies if I'm bringing something up that's already been discussed.
> 
> I was wondering about covers for serials. All covers cost a bit of money to make (if you want to do them right) so if you have ten episodes in one season that's ten different covers. Unless the author is doing it themselves, then the costs can stack up. Is it a good idea to stick with a template then just switch out a new title, maybe even just the episode number? The problem then is that everything looks the same and might get confusing for a potential reader.
> 
> What ways have other Kboarders tackled this problem?


I'm using the same cover for every episode, each in a different color with a different title (same sub-title).


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

Paul Huxley said:


> I haven't read through the entirety of this megathread so apologies if I'm bringing something up that's already been discussed.
> 
> I was wondering about covers for serials. All covers cost a bit of money to make (if you want to do them right) so if you have ten episodes in one season that's ten different covers. Unless the author is doing it themselves, then the costs can stack up. Is it a good idea to stick with a template then just switch out a new title, maybe even just the episode number? The problem then is that everything looks the same and might get confusing for a potential reader.
> 
> What ways have other Kboarders tackled this problem?


I'm using the same image with different text and different pretty colors (haha, pretty), for each season. When I get to a new season, I'll have a new image that will be the same for that season. (The last 3 in my sig are what I have so far).

No idea if it works or if it helps / hurts sales, but that's what I'm doing. 

ETA: So yeah, what Sapphire's doing.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I'll have two or three of the five episodes for my season one written when I start publishing the serial in August. But that's as far ahead as I'll go. I need to give my editor time to edit what I've written.


Mademoiselle du Pre, you've put your finger on what I now belatedly realize is the most important part of the series/serials puzzle -- when one wants to move at speed. The availability of editors at the precise moments you need them in this more demanding approach is the bottleneck. As more and more self-publishers migrate to the series/serials/"seasons" release format, this is going to grow as the stumbling block.

It's especially frustrating for those of us who can write relatively fast! We have a total of eleven manuscripts from 12 to 38K in near- or final draft, pre-edit, or final edit stage. And the editor we had selected after a long search and much pre-planning reneged earlier this month on her commitment to allocate at least 25% of her time to our projects.

Rather than go through the iffy and risky editorial services mating dance again, I decided we must invent a self-editing process that meets our needs. My personal pre-fiction background is in systems, so this decision was easy -- I'm embarrassed not to have realized it last year when I committed seriously to self-publishing.

Not ready to offer my suggestions to KBoarders yet; we just started testing our pieced-together process. I'll only say that it integrates our own systematic pre-edit process with Natural Reader, the terrific ProWriterAid service, the rigorously comprehensive Serenity Editor package, and our own final pre-Kindle formatting process. A cool benefit is that we can (and will) go to a contract "final editor" with a clean, nearly perfect, KDP-ready manuscript. If one has an early-draft editor for story building assistance, our clunkety-clunk method can neatly follow that step.

LOL, I can hear the snickers out there, and don't blame ya: over a long career I have made every mistake in developing human-assist process applications one can make, often several times over. That's why I'm keeping this process simple, using component parts and steps that have already proven themselves to be the best.

Best of luck with your own editing saga, and on your series and other titles!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Paul Huxley said:


> I was wondering about covers for serials. All covers cost a bit of money to make (if you want to do them right) so if you have ten episodes in one season that's ten different covers. Unless the author is doing it themselves, then the costs can stack up. Is it a good idea to stick with a template then just switch out a new title, maybe even just the episode number? The problem then is that everything looks the same and might get confusing for a potential reader.
> 
> What ways have other Kboarders tackled this problem?


My cover artist is creating one image for all five covers for my season one. The only thing that will change is the wording on each cover - episode 1/season 1, episode 2/season 1, episode 3/season 1, etc.

I'm not worried about readers getting confused.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

sinapse said:


> Mademoiselle du Pre, you've put your finger on what I now belatedly realize is the most important part of the series/serials puzzle -- when one wants to move at speed. The availability of editors at the precise moments you need them in this more demanding approach is the bottleneck. As more and more self-publishers migrate to the series/serials/"seasons" release format, this is going to grow as the stumbling block.
> 
> It's especially frustrating for those of us who can write relatively fast! We have a total of eleven manuscripts from 12 to 38K in near- or final draft, pre-edit, or final edit stage. And the editor we had selected after a long search and much pre-planning reneged earlier this month on her commitment to allocate at least 25% of her time to our projects.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you've got an excellent plan. Good luck to you, as well!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Boyd said:


> http://www.hughhowey.com/why-ku-short-fiction-still-makes-sense/


Short works that sell at .99 cents only get 35 percent royalty vs 70 percent if they are priced at 2.99 or over.

Yeah, KU borrows are equal now for any length. But without the borrow rate advantage we had before, writing pieces you can't charge 2.99 doesn't make sense outside of a lead in to a serial / series.

As far as the whole craft construct here ... Wow. Every scene it's own story, every chapter a separate work etc. I mean generally, that's not a bad idea in terms of a writing technique, but telling people that's the way to squeeze the juice out of KU is something from unicorn land. Maybe it works as advice to people who don't already try their best.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Boyd said:


> http://www.hughhowey.com/why-ku-short-fiction-still-makes-sense/


Yeah, I read that awhile ago. I like what Hugh has to say.

This Kindle Chronicles podcast with Russ Grandinetti is interesting too. 

http://www.thekindlechronicles.com/2015/06/26/tkc-360-russ-grandinetti/


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Short works that sell at .99 cents only get 35 percent royalty vs 70 percent if they are priced at 2.99 or over.
> 
> Yeah, KU borrows are equal now for any length. But without the borrow rate advantage we had before, writing pieces you can't charge 2.99 doesn't make sense outside of a lead in to a serial / series.
> 
> As far as the whole craft construct here ... Wow. Every scene it's own story, every chapter a separate work etc. I mean generally, that's not a bad idea in terms of a writing technique, but telling people that's the way to squeeze the juice out of KU is something from unicorn land. Maybe it works as advice to people who don't already try their best.


Yep, you, Sela and other people don't like KU. We get it. You've made it crystal clear.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Paul Huxley said:


> I haven't read through the entirety of this megathread so apologies if I'm bringing something up that's already been discussed.
> 
> I was wondering about covers for serials. All covers cost a bit of money to make (if you want to do them right) so if you have ten episodes in one season that's ten different covers. Unless the author is doing it themselves, then the costs can stack up. Is it a good idea to stick with a template then just switch out a new title, maybe even just the episode number? The problem then is that everything looks the same and might get confusing for a potential reader.
> 
> What ways have other Kboarders tackled this problem?


The way I do it is I make sure the episode number and title is clearly visible. My artist gave me the artwork as a layered PSD, so I just altered the color of the background for each episode.



ShaneJeffery said:


> Yeah, KU borrows are equal now for any length. But without the borrow rate advantage we had before, writing pieces you can't charge 2.99 doesn't make sense outside of a lead in to a serial / series.


No, it doesn't make sense for *you*. Don't assume that everyone else's goals are the same as yours. You stick to what works best for you, I'll stick to what works best for me.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Short works that sell at .99 cents only get 35 percent royalty vs 70 percent if they are priced at 2.99 or over.
> 
> Yeah, KU borrows are equal now for any length. But without the borrow rate advantage we had before, writing pieces you can't charge 2.99 doesn't make sense outside of a lead in to a serial / series.


So experiment with higher prices. Where is it written that you "can't" charge $2.99?


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> The way I do it is I make sure the episode number and title is clearly visible. My artist gave me the artwork as a layered PSD, so I just altered the color of the background for each episode.
> 
> No, it doesn't make sense for *you*. Don't assume that everyone else's goals are the same as yours. You stick to what works best for you, I'll stick to what works best for me.


I think I've put a pretty straight forward argument why 2.99 makes sense and .99 cents doesn't. It's called double the royalty rate paid by amazon.

If you have anything to add to the conversation other than 'I don't agree' I'm all ears.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> So experiment with higher prices. Where is it written that you "can't" charge $2.99?


Well. That's a fair point. When Hugh was talking about short fiction, I assumed he meant books under 100 pages. Maybe even under 50. I took a leap of assumption there because really, you can't charge 2.99 for short fiction under x amount of pages. You know because, that's just not cool lol


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Yep, you, Sela and other people don't like KU. We get it. You've made it crystal clear.


What are you trying to say Jolly? That anyone who 'doesn't like KU' (and please don't even put me in that category) doesn't have the right to engage in intelligent debate or discussion about the issue without you rolling your eyes at them?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I think I've put a pretty straight forward argument why 2.99 makes sense and .99 cents doesn't. It's called double the royalty rate paid by amazon.
> 
> If you have anything to add to the conversation other than 'I don't agree' I'm all ears.


I have added quite a bit to the conversation, including the subject on pricing. Read through this thread.

And once you have something more to add than complaining about the fact that you can't get the same rate as longer books, I too will be all ears.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

I'm wondering what I should call my boxsets. Season 1, Volume 1, etc. I want to use season, but is that frowned upon? Since it's a bunch of books and not a television show? 

Also I'm thinking about writing a series of novels in the same universe (all FBI agents, so my MC from the serial will make brief cameos)  These will feature more action, and hopefully the audiences will crossover from serial to series, and vice-versa. 

I want to build a shared universe.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Boyd said:


> With Hugh's blog post tho, what he's saying is the focus isn't on long or short... but what gets read in the end. How many books have you read and skipped through a long drawn out sex scene because it's like the 4th one in the chapter and ended up putting it down because it bored you to tears? I can't even tell you how many books in KU I start to read, then return and get a new one. With this new system, whether or not I'm returning a 300 page novel that I got bored 20 pages in, or I keep reading my PNR fixes at 35 pages an episode, the PNR writer is going to be making more money overall.
> 
> The point is, write books people want to read and cannot put down.


I think that's a valid argument, and certainly what a lot of people will side behind via the per page payout. However, from a personal point of view I think it's a smokescreen. Writers I'd believe would generally be doing the best they can, and writing to the best of their ability, in every chapter. I could be wrong of course. There could be a bunch of people out there who are like - KU are paying by the page? Oh no! I only made the start of my book good lol


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I think I've put a pretty straight forward argument why 2.99 makes sense and .99 cents doesn't. It's called double the royalty rate paid by amazon.


My serial episodes will be 10K. My initial plan was to do 99 cents. I may do $2.99. I've put short works out before in KU for $2.99, but they were erotica. People don't mind spending $2.99 for short erotica. That was proven to me when I used to write erotica under a secret pen name. But my serial is not erotica, although there will be erotic scenes.

One of the things that's nice about being a self-published author is that I can play around with pricing. So I can start with $2.99. If I'm not seeing movement with sales, I can always drop the price.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> What are you trying to say Jolly? That anyone who 'doesn't like KU' (and please don't even put me in that category) doesn't have the right to engage in intelligent debate or discussion about the issue without you rolling your eyes at them?


I like the name "Jolly." You guys can call me "Jolly" now. I'm fairly skinny, but you can still call me "Jolly."


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Boyd said:


> With Hugh's blog post tho, what he's saying is the focus isn't on long or short... but what gets read in the end. How many books have you read and skipped through a long drawn out sex scene because it's like the 4th one in the chapter and ended up putting it down because it bored you to tears? I can't even tell you how many books in KU I start to read, then return and get a new one. With this new system, whether or not I'm returning a 300 page novel that I got bored 20 pages in, or I keep reading my PNR fixes at 35 pages an episode, the PNR writer is going to be making more money overall.
> 
> The point is, write books people want to read and cannot put down.


THIS. 100 percent.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I have added quite a bit to the conversation, including the subject on pricing. Read through this thread.
> 
> And once you have something more to add than complaining about the fact that you can't get the same rate as longer books, I too will be all ears.





Perry Constantine said:


> I have added quite a bit to the conversation, including the subject on pricing. Read through this thread.
> 
> And once you have something more to add than complaining about the fact that you can't get the same rate as longer books, I too will be all ears.


I would think I'm adding a lot more to the conversation than a complaint, because I'm not complaining in the first place. I'm saying we were ALL better off under the old system, IF 1 cent per page read is the amount paid out. That's just my opinion. I'm also putting out ideas for changes moving forward. I never assumed everyone else's goals were the same as mine, but there might be some people who share the same goal as me to make money at writing.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> I would think I'm adding a lot more to the conversation than a complaint, because I'm not complaining in the first place. I'm saying we were ALL better off under the old system, IF 1 cent per page read is the amount paid out. That's just my opinion. I'm also putting out ideas for changes moving forward. I never assumed everyone else's goals were the same as mine, but there might be some people who share the same goal as me to make money at writing.


I started making good money with my zombie series, and then I screwed up by not getting the books out fast enough. That was MY fault, NOT Amazon's fault. I've learned my lesson on that.

I have a novel coming out next month. At first, I was going to go wide, but now I'm placing it in KU and then going wide after 90 days.

My serials, that will come out starting in August, I intend to place in KU. I'm not a KU virgin; I've read and heard all the arguments; this is my choice.

I don't mind differences in opinion. What bothers me is when people don't respect the choices of others. That happens a lot here. We each have our own financial situations and our own goals. Please respect that.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Boyd said:


> I actually think it's going to be more than 1 cent per page. I think every indie author except those of us (Like you also!!) know what your read through rates are... But imagine you write stand alones. Suddenly your KU income drops by 2/3'rds because you don't have the reader engagement like you (not you you, but the theoretical you) thought you did. I think the pool of money is going to be a bit better than folks think.
> 
> Before, writers were paid for word, or had a magic word count they had to hit in trad pub... that purple prose is now boring enough and there's enough new good books... that if you don't hook them and keep them turning pages... you are lost.
> 
> The advantage of us Short and Serialized/Series writers have is that we know our read through rates... we know if we spend a month on a book (not 3-6 months) we have a pretty good idea of how it's going to sell because of past history... and we're not spending 300k of words on things that may or may not sell. That's where writers like us excel and can capitalize and make these changes work for us in a way it didn't before.


100 percent agree . . . again.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I started making good money with my zombie series, and then I screwed up by not getting the books out fast enough. That was MY fault, NOT Amazon's fault. I've learned my lesson on that.
> 
> I have a novel coming out next month. At first, I was going to go wide, but now I'm placing it in KU and then going wide after 90 days.
> 
> ...


Jolly, you basically said to me upthread, 'We know you don't like KU so shut up.' And you named Sela and 'other people' in that post, as though there's a line in the sand and me and the others are on one side, and everyone else is on the other. I don't even know what Perry thinks about it, because he just blasted me for no reason.

Maybe I'm just asking for trouble replying...... I don't know. I'm not hating on anyone goals or opinions, but if someone puts there's out there and I think of something that counters what they said, I'm going to say it. Doesn't make me right, doesn't make me a jerk either. Just talking everything out and keeping discussion alive.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Jolly, you basically said to me upthread, 'We know you don't like KU so shut up.' And you named Sela and 'other people' in that post, as though there's a line in the sand and me and the others are on one side, and everyone else is on the other. I don't even know what Perry thinks about it, because he just blasted me for no reason.
> 
> Maybe I'm just asking for trouble replying...... I don't know. I'm not hating on anyone goals or opinions, but if someone puts there's out there and I think of something that counters what they said, I'm going to say it. Doesn't make me right, doesn't make me a jerk either. Just talking everything out and keeping discussion alive.


Shane, Jolly is sorry if I offended you.  Okay?

I'm ready to get back on topic now. 
~~~~

If anyone has any other comments regarding pricing of serials between 10K and 15K, I'd love to get your opinion.

Thanks.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Boyd said:


> I actually think it's going to be more than 1 cent per page. I think every indie author except those of us (Like you also!!) know what your read through rates are... But imagine you write stand alones. Suddenly your KU income drops by 2/3'rds because you don't have the reader engagement like you (not you you, but the theoretical you) thought you did. I think the pool of money is going to be a bit better than folks think.
> 
> Before, writers were paid for word, or had a magic word count they had to hit in trad pub... that purple prose is now boring enough and there's enough new good books... that if you don't hook them and keep them turning pages... you are lost.
> 
> The advantage of us Short and Serialized/Series writers have is that we know our read through rates... we know if we spend a month on a book (not 3-6 months) we have a pretty good idea of how it's going to sell because of past history... and we're not spending 300k of words on things that may or may not sell. That's where writers like us excel and can capitalize and make these changes work for us in a way it didn't before.


For sure. If it's 2 cents per page or above, then I'm totally fine with it. I know I have read throughs that are 70 - 80 percent on book 1s and almost 100 percent thereafter. That won't give me 1.30 per borrow read, but it should give me 1 dollar or 1 dollar twenty or whatever which is reasonable. Amazon haven't given any indication that it will be 1 cent (as their example was 10 cents) but authors accepting one cent and saying that's going to be how it is is only going to fuel amazon to payout that way. In the transition between KU1 and KU2, they are going to cut their bottom line. On paper it might say they're paying the same or similar for July as June, but with the increasing amount of borrows it could have seen a dramatic paycut to the $1.30 average in the old payout system. We probably have no way of knowing.


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## Shaun Dowdall (Mar 8, 2013)

Quick question, what does everyone do about editing? I have a 6 episode season planned and I was going to write the whole lot, send it for editing, then release the episodes weekly. Just curious how you guys manage the editing process.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2015)

Shaun Dowdall said:


> Quick question, what does everyone do about editing? I have a 6 episode season planned and I was going to write the whole lot, send it for editing, then release the episodes weekly. Just curious how you guys manage the editing process.


Well, just to give you an example of my process:

6/15 - 6/26 - Write episode one (10K)
6/29 - 7/4 - Edit episode one
7/6 - 7/24 - My editor edits episode one
8/3 - Episode one is published

7/6 - 7/17 - Write episode two (10K)
7/20 - 7/24 - Edit episode two
7/27 - 8/14 - My editor edits episode two
8/17 - Episode two is published

And so on . . .


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Jolie du Pre said:


> If anyone has any other comments regarding pricing of serials between 10K and 15K, I'd love to get your opinion.


I'm gonna have to reread the thread now, but my quick thought would be to price them at $2.99, pulse occasional sales at 99 cents, and see what happens over, oh, three months or so. Off to read and see if I change my thought.

EDIT: Read the whole thread. No changes to my quick thought. Back to writing.


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## JennyJ (Jul 20, 2011)

yep


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

JennyJ said:


> So if you have 60,000 words and you get paid an "amount" a word, then breaking it down into 3, 6 or keeping it at one, pays you the same amount. Given the reader reads it all. My thing is I like my 3 covers in my serial up there trying to catch readers attention as opposed to 1 cover.Or 4 covers if you serialize, then bundle them. My only drawback is the word count a reader sees. If it is too low they might pass for a longer read.


It's payment per page actually. I don't think readers will be any more likely to pass on serials than they have been before. Amazon has had an page count on every ebook page for a long time. Readers may read longer books because there will likely be more of them in KU now than before, but other than that, I wouldn't expect the reader habits to change too much. The change doesn't really affect their end of the spectrum, it mostly affects us.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Shaun Dowdall said:


> Quick question, what does everyone do about editing? I have a 6 episode season planned and I was going to write the whole lot, send it for editing, then release the episodes weekly. Just curious how you guys manage the editing process.


That is what I am doing right now.

If I do a spin off, I'll be squeezing it into my novel release strategy, so I'll send that off for editing in two parts.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2015)

So I am taking my serial out of select. Not because of the KU pricing news though. I think being able to make my first novella permafree will help me more than being in KU will. Anyone have thoughts on this? The three days my book was free it hit #121 in all of the free store on practically no promotion. Also opening it up to wide distribution will hopefully add to the exposure. But again, I'm a n00b so who knows.

Still enjoying writing in this medium though. 3rd one is coming out July 22nd. That will be 3 books in 6 weeks.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2015)

Writers' Cafe has become a drag, again.  (That was quick.   )  So I'm taking off, again.

I've bookmarked this thread and marked "notify" if anything of interest comes up.

Otherwise, good luck everyone on your serials, and enjoy the rest of your year.  Have a good summer.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Noooooo...


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

BelleAC said:


> So I am taking my serial out of select. Not because of the KU pricing news though. I think being able to make my first novella permafree will help me more than being in KU will. Anyone have thoughts on this? The three days my book was free it hit #121 in all of the free store on practically no promotion. Also opening it up to wide distribution will hopefully add to the exposure. But again, I'm a n00b so who knows.
> 
> Still enjoying writing in this medium though. 3rd one is coming out July 22nd. That will be 3 books in 6 weeks.


Yeah, I'll be going wide, too. My plan was always to go in Select when the individual episodes were being released and then to go wide in time for the season compilation. Just waiting for the clock to run out on Select.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

ShaneJeffery said:


> Well. That's a fair point. When Hugh was talking about short fiction, I assumed he meant books under 100 pages. Maybe even under 50. I took a leap of assumption there because really, you can't charge 2.99 for short fiction under x amount of pages. You know because, that's just not cool lol


So, if it's a little above 50 and you charge - let's say experiment, then what? Would it be cool? After all we have to be paid as well too.
The problem with books is that there is a lot of supply and little demand.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

That "x" depends on a lot of things. Like the author's popularity.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Has anyone come up with a good firing solution to denoting separate series within the same universe? This is one of those inadequacies all the sales channels have and I'm not sure how to deal with the branding issue.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## T.K. (Mar 8, 2011)

Just wanted to let you guys know I'm celebrating the 4th by combining the usual BBQ and watermelon along with letting freedom ring with free books.  Yes, it's a fun way of marketing and celebrating at the same time. All the books in my sig (mini-series) are free just for today. And I'm seeing a nice little bump in exposure. It's a win-win. Of course this is not a new marketing strategy, but I have a few other 'experiments' I'm trying. Much earlier in the thread I said I would keep you guys updated with what's working for me and what's not. I haven't forgotten about that but my little 'experiment' won't be over for a few more weeks.  After that I'll tally results and share them with everyone. Also, I'm thinking outside the box and will share those results, too.  My motto: Don' t look back at what used to work. Look ahead and find something new and make that work.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

T.K. Richardson said:


> Just wanted to let you guys know I'm celebrating the 4th by combining the usual BBQ and watermelon along with letting freedom ring with free books.  Yes, it's a fun way of marketing and celebrating at the same time. All the books in my sig (mini-series) are free just for today. And I'm seeing a nice little bump in exposure. It's a win-win. Of course this is not a new marketing strategy, but I have a few other 'experiments' I'm trying. Much earlier in the thread I said I would keep you guys updated with what's working for me and what's not. I haven't forgotten about that but my little 'experiment' won't be over for a few more weeks. After that I'll tally results and share them with everyone. Also, I'm thinking outside the box and will share those results, too. My motto: Don' t look back at what used to work. Look ahead and find something new and make that work.


cool, thanks!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Vaalingrade said:


> Has anyone come up with a good firing solution to denoting separate series within the same universe? This is one of those inadequacies all the sales channels have and I'm not sure how to deal with the branding issue.


P.J.'s idea of having the universe title and then the series title, so Universe X: Serial is a good idea. Another idea is to create a logo for that universe and then take advantage of the subtitle field, like (A Universe X Serial). Some of the vendors also have fields for imprints so you could use that in addition to the others.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> P.J.'s idea of having the universe title and then the series title, so Universe X: Serial is a good idea. Another idea is to create a logo for that universe and then take advantage of the subtitle field, like (A Universe X Serial). Some of the vendors also have fields for imprints so you could use that in addition to the others.


Star Wars
Freezing on Hoth Series, Book 1
"I'm not leaving the hotel!"


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Fictionista said:


> Question concerning chapter format: my four-part serial has installments of 20K each and is working out to be approximately ten chapters in each. Ive been following the usual, "Chapter One", "Chapter Two" naming format etc., but am wondering if this is best or not. Since I'm ending each installment with a cliffhanger and will be picking up right where I left in each new installment, should the second installment start at "Chapter Eleven" or would it be best to simply srart a fresh new set of chapters in my second installmeny by starting with "Chapter One" again?
> 
> How's everyone else going about this?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


I name my chapters, instead of numbering them. I use cryptic names that you have to read the chapter first in order to "get". I challenge myself to have a theme for all the chapters of each installment. One episode's chapters are all verbs. Another's are all character names, etc. I have fun with it.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Cherise Kelley said:


> I name my chapters, instead of numbering them. I use cryptic names that you have to read the chapter first in order to "get". I challenge myself to have a theme for all the chapters of each installment. One episode's chapters are all verbs. Another's are all character names, etc. I have fun with it.


I thought about labelling each chapter with the character whose POV it is being told instead of chapter numbers, but since my serial isn't written in first person I thought it might come off sort of cheesy. I don't know...lol. Maybe I'll do it anyway, or experiment with it a little.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

P J.  That is a great suggestion for a universe of serials.  I had not thought about that level of separation.

Now I will.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Greetings all. 

This is my first (OK, second) post to Kboards, and since I am currently working on two serials, I thought I would come say hello.

Here's my current plan:

Title: Arcanum Island 
Genre: Middle Grade and Teen Mystery and Adventure (adults are digging it too)
Structure: Four Seasons, Four Episodes per season

My original plan for Season 1 (planning on similar with other seasons as well) 
S1E1: Permafree
All following seasons: $.99 and KU

After several months:
Keep S1E1 Permafree
Raise Episodes to $1.99
Season One Bundle: $4.99

Now, I haven't gotten into all the KU drama, but if I am not mistaken, the KU2 borrows will still net me more than what I will earn on a sale.
The "print length" that Amazon ascribed to episode 2 is 40 pp.
But the KENPC is 89 pp.
A borrow that is read is $.51
A sale is $.35

I know, still not as good as a borrow on the KU1 system, but for the length of my pieces, it seems fair. Also, easier for me to swallow as I wasn't in KU with the serials before the change and my non-fic (under a different pen name) is not exclusive.

If they are borrowing E2, it means they will likely read it as they are already reading through.

If the serial finds traction, I might pull after 90 days and go wide.

Anyway, nice to find the serial group here.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Well, we don't yet know what the payout will be for the new KU system. All the numbers thrown around are purely guesses. I don't think we'll be able to have a relatively accurate estimate of page rates until after we've seen a few payouts. By and large though, if your episodes are being read all the way through, then you should at the very least make the same amount you would make on a $0.99 sale. Probably more.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Well, we don't yet know what the payout will be for the new KU system. All the numbers thrown around are purely guesses. I don't think we'll be able to have a relatively accurate estimate of page rates until after we've seen a few payouts. By and large though, if your episodes are being read all the way through, then you should at the very least make the same amount you would make on a $0.99 sale. Probably more.


Thanks for the reply Perry.

I haven't taken too much time to read about the new structure. If the .0057 is just speculation, where exactly did that precise of a number come from?

Thanks again.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

That's a very good question.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

The .00578 figure comes from Amazon's own emails. With a borrow pot of $11 million divided by the pages they said were borrowed for June, 1.9 billion.

Will that be the payout? Wwho knows, other than Amazon. They're going to pay whatever they want.



D. Zollicoffer said:


> I'm wondering what I should call my boxsets. Season 1, Volume 1, etc. I want to use season, but is that frowned upon? Since it's a bunch of books and not a television show?
> 
> Also I'm thinking about writing a series of novels in the same universe (all FBI agents, so my MC from the serial will make brief cameos) These will feature more action, and hopefully the audiences will crossover from serial to series, and vice-versa.
> 
> I want to build a shared universe.


I'm seeing them called seasons. Each part is an episode, the total is a season.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

she-la-ti-da said:


> I'm seeing them called seasons. Each part is an episode, the total is a season.


Precisely what I'm doing.

Sean, Dave, and Johnny at SPP have moved from episode releases to just releasing entire seasons. I imagine this is profitable as they already have true fans. If I see significant interest, I will do this as well.

Wondering if others consider their first season a true pilot. That is, pilot the serial, see how sales go before releasing the next season.

Also, what sort of time do you plan on putting between the end of one season and the beginning of the next?


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> Precisely what I'm doing.
> 
> Sean, Dave, and Johnny at SPP have moved from episode releases to just releasing entire seasons. I imagine this is profitable as they already have true fans. If I see significant interest, I will do this as well.
> 
> ...


For my first paranormal romance season, I have five episodes. I'll move on to season 2 (five episodes) after that.

The theme for my seasons is the same. The difference is that for each season I focus on a different couple.


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

I have no plans to pull my serial out of KU at this point and actually I'll be writing another one when the current one is finished. I even threw a few older novels in a couple days ago after hearing about KU 2.0. Their ranking improved dramatically when I stuck them in KU. If anything, I'm hoping to get more visibility for the serials, more so than making money.


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

Jolie du Pre said:


> For my first paranormal romance season, I have five episodes. I'll move on to season 2 (five episodes) after that.
> 
> The theme for my seasons is the same. The difference is that for each season I focus on a different couple.


Jolie, I love the fact that you're staying positive in all this. Obviously you see opportunities. I'm starting to see them too.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2015)

Victoria J said:


> Jolie, I love the fact that you're staying positive in all this. Obviously you see opportunities. I'm starting to see them too.


Thanks! That's right, I'm not changing my writing plans, and my attitude about Amazon hasn't changed, either. KU was good to me before, and it believe it will be good for me now. I have a novel I'm publishing next week; my serial begins in August; I have a series that begins in September; and in December, I'm publishing another series.

I'm busy writing and living my life, because I know I only have one life and that life is short. Major corporations do things that people don't like all the time, and they'll continue to do so after I'm dead. If people want to fight major corporations, go ahead. However, I'm 53 years old, and I ain't got time for that.

Good luck to you, Victoria, and keep us posted on your progress.


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## skygirl (Jul 4, 2015)

I think it's best to release individually - one per week. I'm following the advice of KMatthews who also writes under Sky Coorgan and has a KU series called Flesh (erotic romance). She made tons of money and has great info here about her release schedule. She puts out 10k per week and that Flesh series is 17 books I think. The first one is free and the rest are .99 and in KU. 

That's what I'm planning to do with my debut erotic new adult romance.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Thanks for the responses everyone.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My serial episodes will be 10K. My initial plan was to do 99 cents. I may do $2.99. I've put short works out before in KU for $2.99, but they were erotica. People don't mind spending $2.99 for short erotica. That was proven to me when I used to write erotica under a secret pen name. But my serial is not erotica, although there will be erotic scenes.
> 
> One of the things that's nice about being a self-published author is that I can play around with pricing. So I can start with $2.99. If I'm not seeing movement with sales, I can always drop the price.


I'm working on a short story series right now that could have lots of installments/episodes/whatever, and I'm thinking about pricing them specifically for the KU market. I was thinking $2.99 each so that KU users might appreciate the $2.99 read for freesies deal. Not so much pricing to sell, but pricing to borrow. Anyone experimenting with something like that?


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> I'm working on a short story series right now that could have lots of installments/episodes/whatever, and I'm thinking about pricing them specifically for the KU market. I was thinking $2.99 each so that KU users might appreciate the $2.99 read for freesies deal. Not so much pricing to sell, but pricing to borrow. Anyone experimenting with something like that?


That's also my plan now.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> That's also my plan now.


Yeah, this is interesting. I am trying to get some exposure first as I am brand new (under this author's name). 
Thinking permafree first book will pull in some non-KUers, once I bundle the first season (3 weeks or so) I will turn up the episode cost.

I wish we had genre stats for KU. Do teen/young adult read via KU? My daughter does and is half the reason we use the subscription service. She reads four books a week, I generally read two, etc.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

This morning "APRIL - Episode 5" of Anna's Legacy went live. Episodes are running 15-18k words each. I started with $1.49 price across the board. Then I lowered "BEGINNING - Episode 1" to 99 cents. I have decided to leave the first episode at 99 cents and will raise the others to $2.99 at the same time I start advertising (which will be very soon). This is a serial with a target audience of teens and college age young women.There are nine more episodes to come at a rate of about one per month. It will be interesting to see results of this upcoming change. If it doesn't play well, I can always adapt to a different approach.
EDIT: The series is enrolled in KU.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

It sounds like there are a lot of Serial writers.

Has anyone been a part of a boxset/anthology of serial first episodes? 

Would anyone be interested? 

We could consider putting E1's into an anthology, setting them to permafree, and sending to all of our lists.

I have had good success with anthologies in non-fiction, but am uncertain if this would be helpful to cross pollinate our readers. Might be able to include some bigger name serial writers as well, like the SPP guys.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Boyd said:


> I have done it and got a lot of negative feedback, even when we put it in the title description etc.
> 
> ETA: It was an erom pen name, maybe different Genre's would work better than others?


Interesting.

Well, I know as a reader I tend to not even look at boxsets.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

CM Raymond said:


> It sounds like there are a lot of Serial writers.
> 
> Has anyone been a part of a boxset/anthology of serial first episodes?
> 
> ...


Won't work if the episodes are in KU.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Well I'm diving in and putting out another 3 part serial into KU.  This is my test drive...  The one that's already in, I think I might take out next month depending on the end result of my pages read/amount.

Anyone else going back in?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> It sounds like there are a lot of Serial writers.
> 
> Has anyone been a part of a boxset/anthology of serial first episodes?
> 
> ...


I have had great success with a first of serial/series box set in KU. I suggest very tight branding. Mine happens to be shifter romance.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

The box set idea is something I have thought of. But like Cherise said, you can't make it permafree unless everyone involved either doesn't have their serial in Select or is willing to remove it. 

Another thing is you have to consider genre. Since serial writing is still very niche, you'd have to find several serial authors who write in the same genre as you.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I would love to do an e-rom or billionaire serial firsts box set. I tried to get one started on another forum, but it is dead in the water. With KU 2.0, a lot of writers are one the fence with where their serials will be.

I may post on Kboards looking for writers for a box set. I imagine a lot of people would volunteer if all they had to do was sign a form, send a file, and collect a check. Of course, that means I'll be the one doing all the work.


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## Windvein (Sep 26, 2012)

> I'm working on a short story series right now that could have lots of installments/episodes/whatever, and I'm thinking about pricing them specifically for the KU market. I was thinking $2.99 each so that KU users might appreciate the $2.99 read for freesies deal. Not so much pricing to sell, but pricing to borrow. Anyone experimenting with something like that?


I think if you're planning to stay long-term/forever in KU that this is a viable plan. I think pricing at $2.99 will encourage those in the program to borrow and you'll get a nice payout when someone actually purchases a story.

I'm planning on bundling for $2.99 and going wide as my episodes fall out of Select. This has always been the plan, but I feel more sure of it now. My episodes which are roughly 15K each cannot do well under the new system. I plan to work more with the universe created for the serial, but I don't know what form the new episodes will take. I will probably write longer pieces and go wide with them from the start and price at $2.99. Once My Demon is out of KU, I may never put another thing in Select again. The new payout of KU isn't big enough for me to stay.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm in a zombie box set with 11 other authors.  It's at Amazon, and it's done well.  But yeah, all I had to do was send my story in.  I wasn't the one who had to put the book together.  That's work I don't have time for.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> I have had great success with a first of serial/series box set in KU. I suggest very tight branding. Mine happens to be shifter romance.


I may have missed this earler, but how are you guys defining "Serials" vs. "Series"? And how are readers viewing the difference?

I see Series as having a pretty full arc with resolution per book (my WIP is Novellas) but with a "kicker" to jump/entice to the next book.

The Serials I've read had cliffhanger endings, which I kinda hate because I'm obligated to buy/commit to have anything resolve.

How do you see the difference (+ genre differences)?


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

Hi everyone. Actually glad to find this thread!

I've completed two three-part erotic romance serials (one is now only available in full book format), & one four-part erotic romance. I'm about to publish Part Four in another serial, making four complete serials done.

I have one that #1 is out but have to put out #2 & 3 to finish that one out. I also have a novella, and two full-length contemporary romance novels out as well, with a Christmas novella for my first (and bestselling so far) finished serial coming out in November.

After this final part is out, I'm going to be working on the last serial in addition to starting a monthly soap opera serial, but I will probably be switching to working on finishing complete novels I've had in the works for a while now, for the foreseeable future. See how that goes, I prefer serials because they just fit my schedule and writing habits better!

Oh, and my books are widely distributed, I did KDP for one 90 day stint...and it just wasn't good for me. I actually suffered the worst when my books were shoved in the dungeon for 9+ months without me having a clue and wondering why my sales tanked. They're out now and slowly recovering, yay, but the long-term damage is pretty noticeable to me.


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## Scatterdown (May 3, 2015)

Violet Haze said:


> Oh, and my books are widely distributed, I did KDP for one 90 day stint...and it just wasn't good for me. I actually suffered the worst when my books were shoved in the dungeon for 9+ months without me having a clue and wondering why my sales tanked. They're out now and slowly recovering, yay, but the long-term damage is pretty noticeable to me.


How did you end up in the dungeon, if you don't mind me asking? (Mostly because I'm about to release an erom serial, and theres a particular cover I quite have my heart set on...


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

CM Raymond said:


> Precisely what I'm doing.
> 
> Sean, Dave, and Johnny at SPP have moved from episode releases to just releasing entire seasons. I imagine this is profitable as they already have true fans. If I see significant interest, I will do this as well.
> 
> ...





Jim Johnson said:


> I'm working on a short story series right now that could have lots of installments/episodes/whatever, and I'm thinking about pricing them specifically for the KU market. I was thinking $2.99 each so that KU users might appreciate the $2.99 read for freesies deal. Not so much pricing to sell, but pricing to borrow. Anyone experimenting with something like that?


Pricing is going to depend on the genre, length and your ultimate goal. Erotica tends to be higher priced, while PNR is selling low. Romance in general tends to be lower priced. I haven't looked at SF just yet, but it would be easy enough to search Amazon for SF serials, and see what they go for.

If you just want borrows (which really isn't a feasible thing now money-wise, as far as I'm concerned), then price higher to encourage borrows. If you ultimately want to move onto other sites, then be prepared to either drop the price inline with what others are getting out in the wild, or to have fewer sales with a higher royalty (which might work out best anyway, if you can afford to wait until you catch that audience).

It's a tricky thing, and like everything else in publishing, you have to experiment and see what works for you. I'm always reading what one author is doing, looking at their results, and getting all "Yeah! That's the ticket!", and then seeing others saying that isn't working for them and getting down and changing my mind.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

A couple of folks were discussing getting dungeoned and what gets you there. Well, from what I'm seeing, it's covers, title, blurb. Sometimes it's content, for subjects that Amazon is funky about (PI, non-con, dub-con).

Cover:  too much skin; no appearance of nakedness allowed, no people in sexual positions, underwear that is too skimpy, i.e. thongs; no hand bras allowed, no hint of nipples showing allowed

Title:  banned words; stepbrother/father/mother/sister is a big one (though it seems to pass for now in romance categories, Amazon will likely drop the hammer on it at some point); using keywords in the subtitle area (yes, some get away with it, but Amazon has dinged folks)

Blurb:  banned words; no mention of familial relations in PI (there are common phrases to get around this, a web search should find them); tons more things the Zon doesn't allow, which can change at any moment (I think cheerleader is one that's out now)

Content:  tricky; no rape for titillation, no bestiality, no scat, no incest, no underage (even if it's the age of consent, Amazon says no; characters must clearly be above 1, dubious consent is iffy, you have to word it right to get by

It's a good idea to check with salesrankexpress.com to see if you've gotten the adult filter. It's free and easy to use.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2015)

I'll decide for myself if serials work with the new KU.  I'm not convinced that they won't.


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## Mystery Maven (Sep 17, 2014)

I just want to follow this thread.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Won't work if the episodes are in KU.


Ah, snap. Didn't think of that Cherise.

Are most putting the first episode of a serial in KU? It seems like most try to make it permafree to draw readers in.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Two things:

First, did promos this week for a permafree season 1, episode 1. Episode 2 is posted. Episode 3 goes live tomorrow. Since I am a crusty faculty member/non-fic writer trying his hand at fiction, it will be interesting to see if downloads carry over into E2.

Second, when you all write blurbs for episodes after the first, what is your strategy? I imagine it is not cool to write in "spoilers" or much of anything about previous eps to protect your readers. At this point, I am just reusing a very "open" blurb and starting it with "The Saga Continues." 

Recommendations?

Thanks everyone. You're amazing.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I bundle everything for sale, but what I do is have a boilerplate blurb for the series and then a smaller one for the collection, usually in the vein of 'following the events of...' without giving detailed spoilers.

Once you get a longrunner, you start to realize people will jump in whenever and however they want anyway and mild spoilers are inevitable.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Vaalingrade said:


> I bundle everything for sale, but what I do is have a boilerplate blurb for the series and then a smaller one for the collection, usually in the vein of 'following the events of...' without giving detailed spoilers.
> 
> Once you get a longrunner, you start to realize people will jump in whenever and however they want anyway and mild spoilers are inevitable.


Perfect answer.

Thank you.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

Tuesday Chase said:


> How did you end up in the dungeon, if you don't mind me asking? (Mostly because I'm about to release an erom serial, and theres a particular cover I quite have my heart set on...


For one, even though you couldn't tell IMO, she had a "hand bra" which is dumb because her arms were like...over her chest with no boob showing and her hands under her chin. For the other, there was a teeny bit of side boob! But, I had no idea that could happen, so when I found out, I was devastated. I never would've shot myself in the foot like that if I had known! Other was because I had a warning in my description. Stupid if you ask me but I had to do a lot of rearranging. Problem was, after a bit, they were putting ALL my books in erotica at least (if not adult) every time I published a new one, even if it was NOWHERE close or inappropriate. They got an angry email from me about that, and since then, they seemed to have stop putting a target on me...for now...


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Wasn't going to jump into the $0.99 game, but I changed my mind. 

I'm writing a quirky supernatural mystery romance serial. Five parts, 15k words each, self contained mysteries that tie into a larger one about a small town (taking a few things from my unreleased police procedural serial). The first one will be free, and the bundle will cost $3.99. That's a $1 savings. I want to push readers towards the bundle.

This will be a test run. If it's popular I'll switch to another couple in town. It can go one forever. I just got done watching Twin Peaks for the first time and it gave me a few ideas. Obviously, it got messy towards the end and you can tell that David Lynch was making things up as he went. Me, I'm an outliner, and I hate shows like LOST. Every mystery will have an answer. I'm not a fan of weirdness for weirdness' sake.

I settled on romance because last year I bought "On Writing Romance", and I've been meaning to try out some of the advice. Plus I love romantic comedies. I'm a guy who isn't afraid to admit that lol.

Hopefully I can carve out a little niche for myself. Blending so many genres could lead to disaster, but I can't help it. It's the story I want to write


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## Michael Parnell (Aug 25, 2014)

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I'm close (I think) to launching my first serial, so I've been soaking up the advice and feedback here, checking out your serials, etc. It has been helpful and encouraging. If any of you have suggestions for where to find more information related to serials--blogs, threads, books, old wise people hidden away in shires, whatever--I would love to know about it. Thanks!


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> But I just wanted to hear what some of y'all think, as this is my very first serial and I want to make sure I don't end up making mistakes that might turn readers off. Right now I am leaning towards writing a different blurb per story, but again, I want to hear some of your thoughts on the matter.


My opinion is if it's a different story, it needs a different blurb. TV shows don't repeat the same logline for every episode.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> My opinion is if it's a different story, it needs a different blurb. TV shows don't repeat the same logline for every episode.


If it's a different story, yeah, I agree. My serial is five episodes. It's one story, but of course each episode is a portion of that story. So there will be some variation in the blurbs, but not much.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> I've been reading the blurbs of a few serials and notice how some of them just repeat the same blurb for each episode. I was wondering if I need to do that or not, because my serial is far more episodic than most (at least from what I've read of the serials I've seen on Amazon), with each episode pretty much a self-contained story set in the same universe and starring the same cast of characters as every other episode.
> 
> Therefore, I think it would make sense, in my case, to write a different blurb for every story, but maybe not. It certainly would be a lot less work to write one blurb that I can copy and paste onto Amazon and the other sites I publish to, anyway.


Every episode should have its own blurb, because every episode should provide the reader with a complete experience. If it doesn't, then that makes me wonder if the serials you've looked at are really serials or just chopped up novels. As Jim said, even TV shows have different log lines for each episode. And that even goes for TV shows that are one long continuous story. Sense8 comes to mind--it's one long story, but if you look at the episode descriptions, each one is different. Here are a few examples:

Episode 1: Eight people from around the world are suddenly linked as they are birthed into their new life as Sensates. Meanwhile, each of them faces adversity in their personal lives.

Episode 2: Nomi loses consciousness upon seeing Jonas, later learning she is endangered by a medical condition. Daniela discovers Lito's secret.

Episode 3: Sun's underground secret life is revealed and Capheus benefits from her skills.

And more here.

If anything, your blurb should probably be two short paragraphs. The first one is an overall series blurb, the second is an episode-specific one.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> If anything, your blurb should probably be two short paragraphs. The first one is an overall series blurb, the second is an episode-specific one.


THIS.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

I have done quite a few serials. MOST of mine have their own individual blurbs for each part. Only one I've done (I've only published #1 of 3) will have the same blurb, and that's because pretty much anything would be a spoiler, IMO. Otherwise, in general, they should absolutely be individual.



Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> Hi, everyone! I'm about to launch my first serial soon and I have a question about blurbs that I hope y'all can answer.
> 
> I've been reading the blurbs of a few serials and notice how some of them just repeat the same blurb for each episode. I was wondering if I need to do that or not, because my serial is far more episodic than most (at least from what I've read of the serials I've seen on Amazon), with each episode pretty much a self-contained story set in the same universe and starring the same cast of characters as every other episode.
> 
> ...


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Violet Haze said:


> I have done quite a few serials. MOST of mine have their own individual blurbs for each part. Only one I've done (I've only published #1 of 3) will have the same blurb, and that's because pretty much anything would be a spoiler, IMO. Otherwise, in general, they should absolutely be individual.


I'd still advise you to think of a way to come up with a new blurb that's not a spoiler. Make it very vague if you have to, but having something different is important, IMO. As a reader, if I saw two episodes had the same blurb, I'd think the writer made a mistake.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I'd still advise you to think of a way to come up with a new blurb that's not a spoiler. Make it very vague if you have to, but having something different is important, IMO. As a reader, if I saw two episodes had the same blurb, I'd think the writer made a mistake.


Very good point. Keeping all this in mind for my release next month.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

Thank you, but it says it's the second part in the description, and the first blurb says it all. Which reminds me I need to move it to the top so it's the first thing they see. Lol. I am not particularly worried, but I appreciate the advice. 



Perry Constantine said:


> I'd still advise you to think of a way to come up with a new blurb that's not a spoiler. Make it very vague if you have to, but having something different is important, IMO. As a reader, if I saw two episodes had the same blurb, I'd think the writer made a mistake.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I'd still advise you to think of a way to come up with a new blurb that's not a spoiler. Make it very vague if you have to, but having something different is important, IMO. As a reader, if I saw two episodes had the same blurb, I'd think the writer made a mistake.


Totally agree with this. Just look at any episodic TV series: each episode has a unique blurb/one-liner. I would use those as references.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

Perhaps I should clarify. My serials aren't episodes, they are books broken up with cliffhangers, so they are in parts. For most of my stories, I could say something that wouldn't give anything away. This one is just different, and by the title alone, you know the general theme. But, just in case, I asked my readers, and everyone who replied said they don't care either way. So it's probably individual, just like everything else. 



Harald said:


> Totally agree with this. Just look at any episodic TV series: each episode has a unique blurb/one-liner. I would use those as references.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Each blurb in my serial has a different blurb BUT the final line ties each one into the continuing story arc. I chose final over opening because I hope to catch fresh readers who never go beyond the first sentence or two that Amazon makes visible.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

Sapphire said:


> Each blurb in my serial has a different blurb BUT the final line ties each one into the continuing story arc. I chose final over opening because I hope to catch fresh readers who never go beyond the first sentence or two that Amazon makes visible.


That's a smart way to do it!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

Got all my covers for my first season.  I'm so ready for this.  Good luck, everyone!


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

So I just came to a conclusion of that I want to do a serial under a new pen name. My work is  p*ss ing off to much so I'm going to make a plan to earn enough to quit my job in six months if not sooner and that's by writing a lot more. I figure using a pen name called J A McCarthy just for serial and shorts while using my regular name J Alex McCarthy for longer works would help build a fan base and viewership. I'm going to make it very obvious that if the reader also likes longer books then they could find my longer work under my regular pen name.

The serial i'm planning is a American God like serial called "The Men Who killed God" and will release it weekly, this thread has been very helpful even though it's died down a bit. I'm thinking of making the first episode wide so I can make it perma-free and have the other nine on KU and costing .99 cents. I'm hoping the name of the serial alone will get it high in the rankings.

Now to look for some premade covers that will describe the dark gritty actiony thrillerish true detectivish tone of my serial without looking like a nonfiction book about atheist not finding god.

I'm going to work on my novels on the weekdays and serials on the weekends. Hopefully I don't get burnt out.


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## Jake Decker (Jul 27, 2012)

JalexM said:


> So I just came to a conclusion of that I want to do a serial under a new pen name. My work is p*ss ing off to much so I'm going to make a plan to earn enough to quit my job in six months if not sooner and that's by writing a lot more. I figure using a pen name called J A McCarthy just for serial and shorts while using my regular name J Alex McCarthy for longer works would help build a fan base and viewership. I'm going to make it very obvious that if the reader also likes longer books then they could find my longer work under my regular pen name.
> 
> The serial i'm planning is a American God like serial called "The Men Who killed God" and will release it weekly, this thread has been very helpful even though it's died down a bit. I'm thinking of making the first episode wide so I can make it perma-free and have the other nine on KU and costing .99 cents. I'm hoping the name of the serial alone will get it high in the rankings.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good plan and great motivation, Alex. Good luck.


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## Jake Decker (Jul 27, 2012)

I apologize for not reading this whole thread yet (working on it), but what kind of pricing strategies are authors using for an episode? Is $1.99 per 15-20K episode too much? .99? I would imagine the season box set could go for $3-4.99


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Brian Bergquist said:


> Sounds like a good plan and great motivation, Alex. Good luck.


Thanks, I myself am thinking of pricing episode 2-5 at 99c and 6-10 at 2.99 but i'm not sure yet.


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## Jake Decker (Jul 27, 2012)

P.J. Post said:


> This is tricky and depends a lot on your audience and how long the episodes are. The serial I'm about to launch grew to 20k per episode, so I'm considering $2.99 (but will reduce Book 1 to 99 cents once the next episodes come out), but I'm not locked in yet.
> 
> My other Serial has shorter episodes, but they're sexier, lol, so that changes the pricing parameters too.
> 
> Prices are inching their way up across the board, so no need to start in the 99 cent basement. Something to be aware of too is that when you price super low to begin with, there's no where to go with promotions.


Thanks. Yes I was thinking $2.99 for 20K might be okay as well. That would make your season omnibus an even better deal at $5.99 or so for 6 episodes like I was planning.

I wonder if just entering the omnibus only into KU2 would be best to take advantage of the new per pages read payout.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> This is tricky and depends a lot on your audience and how long the episodes are. The serial I'm about to launch grew to 20k per episode, so I'm considering $2.99 (but will reduce Book 1 to 99 cents once the next episodes come out), but I'm not locked in yet. ...


Very cool covers for The Punk Series, P.J. And love the "Book 1.5" - never seen that before.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> It doesn't really matter if they read the episodes in a single bundle or individually - the pay-out is the same, as long as they read them through. [...] Maybe someone with Serial data will respond about timing the launch of bundles.


P.J., notice you do not have a bundle ("Omnibus") on your Punk Series. Any particular reason?

P.S. Now I get why "Clay" does not use Selective Color on the cover... v1.5!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2015)

Published my 3rd book in my 10 book serial today. Really struggling with pricing. The books are between 16k to 20k words. (Actually the first one is 25k words) and oddly they sell better at 2.99 than .99. I just feel like, as a reader, they're too short for that price. 

I plan on having a box set once I reach 5 parts and was thinking of pricing it at 3.99 and having the individual books at .99. I don't know. I go back and forth on it all.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Has anyone "gone wide" with their serial? And if so, how well does it sell? My current biggest dilemma for my soon to be released serial is whether or not to put it into KU or go wide with it.

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2015)

Fictionista said:


> Has anyone "gone wide" with their serial? And if so, how well does it sell? My current biggest dilemma for my soon to be released serial is whether or not to put it into KU or go wide with it.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


I did, but very briefly. Way too briefly to really give it a chance since I know it can take months and months to gain traction. I don't regret putting them in KU at all. I am on track to make more than I did with KU1. (Although I only have a single month of KU1 data to go by)


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

BelleAC said:


> I did, but very briefly. Way too briefly to really give it a chance since I know it can take months and months to gain traction. I don't regret putting them in KU at all. I am on track to make more than I did with KU1. (Although I only have a single month of KU1 data to go by)


Thanks for that info. It's very helpful to know. How long are your serial instalments? Mine are approximately 20k each. I'm more or less my instalments aren't long enough to potentially hit the big payouts if I put my serial in KU.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2015)

Fictionista said:


> Thanks for that info. It's very helpful to know. How long are your serial instalments? Mine are approximately 20k each. I'm more or less my instalments aren't long enough to potentially hit the big payouts if I put my serial in KU.


Mine actually run from 16k to 20k. I get about 2000 KENPC a day which I know isn't crazy, but it was better than nothing on Draft2Digitial. I know I could have stuck it out and maybe built an audience but I would rather make a little more money on KU and get some exposure over there. And I noticed once they were back in KU, they got bumped a bit in ranking. But its realy hard to decide what is best with these shorter works. I hope I helped a little!


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

The first group of episodes in my serial are $0.99. Now that my second season of episodes are coming out in a few days, its over 20k. I'm thinking of pricing it at $2.99, as well as the subsequent ones. They seem to be getting longer and longer.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Scatterdown (May 3, 2015)

Does anyone know if pre-order price is honoured? My series is slowly being rolled out in pre-order (to update the back matter as I go along), but I want to put some prices up once I release. Is the person who paid $1.99 going to be slugged with $2.99 on opening day because of the price rice for release day?


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2015)

Victoria J said:


> The first group of episodes in my serial are $0.99. Now that my second season of episodes are coming out in a few days, its over 20k. I'm thinking of pricing it at $2.99, as well as the subsequent ones. They seem to be getting longer and longer.


This sounds like a great plan.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Oh geez - I get distracted away from Kboards for a few weeks and this thread grows by an extra 15 pages! LOL I'm going to do some catch-up reading and I'll be right back


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

What's everyone's experience with serials and pre-orders? I'm assuming pre-orders are a good thing when it comes to serials, no?


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

I did my first pre-order with part four of my serial. I put it up about 4 days before it came out ,and ended up with 23 PO's on Amazon. I guess it would depend if you want the big boost on release day or not, since Amazon ranks you from the first sale. Everywhere else, I think it's great because you can plan them out, put them up, and all the pre-orders stack for release day on B&N, Kobo, and iBooks.



Fictionista said:


> What's everyone's experience with serials and pre-orders? I'm assuming pre-orders are a good thing when it comes to serials, no?


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## YoMama (Jan 27, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Maybe someone with Serial data will respond about timing the launch of bundles.


I started doing serials in june. 5 parts, one a week, 10000 words each, .99, in KU. I do the bundle on the same day as the last part is released, bundle is not in KU. I get sales on both the bundle and the final part


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Okay I think I'm all caught up now 
I see with KU2 we lost a few people  but we've also added a bunch of new faces - so hey anyone who has come along since the last time I was here.

As for me - still plugging along with my serial. I have four episodes out now out of 10, getting the fifth one and the first "boxed set" of episodes 1-5 ready at the moment and planning my first real promo push for episode one for next month. How is everyone else's serials going?


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

WickedRed said:


> Okay I think I'm all caught up now
> I see with KU2 we lost a few people  but we've also added a bunch of new faces - so hey anyone who has come along since the last time I was here.
> 
> As for me - still plugging along with my serial. I have four episodes out now out of 10, getting the fifth one and the first "boxed set" of episodes 1-5 ready at the moment and planning my first real promo push for episode one for next month. How is everyone else's serials going?


I'm starting episode 1 tomorrow. I can only work on my serials on the weekends as I work on my full novels on the week days plus my day job, which is so inconsistent I don't know what days I work. But I'm now starting to take off Fridays so I can transition mentally between my stories and have a cool down day/Transcribing day as I hand write everything. But for my Serial it'll be the first time i've typed up a story in years. Usually I hand write everything and then transfer it over to word but since I'm trying to complete an episode a weekend, my scheduling is going to get tight. 
I'm excited to start it though, the whole thing was already outlined so it should be easier and less time consuming hopefully to write. Shooting for a the second week of september for the first release and then have weekly releases after that.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Timothy L. Cerepaka said:


> I am in the process of launching my new serial, which is under my new pen name. I am trying out the Liliana Nirvana Strategy with releasing all five episodes at once in August, with the complete collection coming out a month later. I've never tried the Liliana Nirvana Strategy before, so I don't know how well this will do, but I figure it's worth a shot, since I had all five episodes already written up anyway.
> 
> Right now, I am waiting on my cover designer to provide me with all six covers (five for the individual episodes and one for the collection), which I should receive from him tomorrow. Once I get the covers, I will start publishing them ASAP.


Awesome! I've been considering using her method for my next novel series on my main name - 6+ months between releases has taught me some serious noob lessons lol. I wouldn't do it for my serial, but only because I like the old school "anticipation" between releases (probably more fun for me than anyone else though) lol
Hopefully I'll be seeing your new serial around here soon 



JalexM said:


> I'm starting episode 1 tomorrow. I can only work on my serials on the weekends as I work on my full novels on the week days plus my day job, which is so inconsistent I don't know what days I work. But I'm now starting to take off Fridays so I can transition mentally between my stories and have a cool down day/Transcribing day as I hand write everything. But for my Serial it'll be the first time i've typed up a story in years. Usually I hand write everything and then transfer it over to word but since I'm trying to complete an episode a weekend, my scheduling is going to get tight.
> I'm excited to start it though, the whole thing was already outlined so it should be easier and less time consuming hopefully to write. Shooting for a the second week of september for the first release and then have weekly releases after that.


I feel you about finding time and juggling work. Had to push my fourth episode back by two weeks so I could edit for my other pen name. Weekly / bi-weekly releases can be extremely demanding on time :/ But it's a lot of fun. Personally, I'm really enjoying the format and doing the frequent releases is training my writing / editing / publishing habits to be more productive


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Tuesday Chase said:


> Does anyone know if pre-order price is honoured? My series is slowly being rolled out in pre-order (to update the back matter as I go along), but I want to put some prices up once I release. Is the person who paid $1.99 going to be slugged with $2.99 on opening day because of the price rice for release day?


I'm pretty sure the pre-order price is honored. If someone pre-orders at $1.99, then they'll pay $1.99 on opening day, even if you raised the price to $2.99.



Fictionista said:


> What's everyone's experience with serials and pre-orders? I'm assuming pre-orders are a good thing when it comes to serials, no?


The good thing about pre-orders is it gives you a link to immediately put in the end of the previous episode.


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Just finished and uploading book #3 in a serial! Trying to write one per week


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

So, I've been working on a "What is Serialized Fiction" page for my new blog and figured I'd post it here for your opinions. It's not finished, I feel like there should be more, so I figured I'd ask what you thought, if I was missing anything or happened to get something wrong.

http://wickedredstories.blogspot.com/p/what-is-serialized-fiction.html

Hope you're all getting lots of writing done and having a great weekend


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2015)

WickedRed said:


> So, I've been working on a "What is Serialized Fiction" page for my new blog and figured I'd post it here for your opinions. It's not finished, I feel like there should be more, so I figured I'd ask what you thought, if I was missing anything or happened to get something wrong.
> 
> http://wickedredstories.blogspot.com/p/what-is-serialized-fiction.html
> 
> Hope you're all getting lots of writing done and having a great weekend


I enjoyed reading this. Thank you. I look forward to getting readers involved in my upcoming serial!


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I enjoyed reading this. Thank you. I look forward to getting readers involved in my upcoming serial!


No problem. 
I think reader interactions is probably one of the most fun parts of doing a serial.


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Book #3 is live!  Now on to the conclusion (book #4)


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

JessHayek69 said:


> Book #3 is live! Now on to the conclusion (book #4)


Yay! Congrats!
I love your new covers by the way


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## Michael Parnell (Aug 25, 2014)

Good blog post, WickedRed. Thanks for the info!


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Michael Parnell said:


> Good blog post, WickedRed. Thanks for the info!


 Thanks for reading. Hoping it'll be helpful


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## Shaun Dowdall (Mar 8, 2013)

Wooo hoo, just finished episode one of my new serial  Firing it over for editing tomorrow. Now I just need to work out the release schedule and pricing for it. Exciting times.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

Congrats SD! 
Keep it up!


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Finished writing my first episode this weekend! 10k words in two days, that's a new one for me and i'll have to do it for nine more weekends. 
Now to search for some pre-mades, i'm actually excited.
Also I posted a thread asking for beta readers if anyone is interested in reading the first chapter. The series is called "The Men Who Killed God"
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,219795.0.html


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## EmparentingMom (Jun 20, 2011)

I see that a lot of serial writers release weekly "episodes", and then consolidate them into a single book after a period of time. What happens then to the original episodes? Do you leave them up, or take them down? Don't you then lose the traction / reviews you've gained?


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2015)

EmparentingMom said:


> I see that a lot of serial writers release weekly "episodes", and then consolidate them into a single book after a period of time. What happens then to the original episodes? Do you leave them up, or take them down? Don't you then lose the traction / reviews you've gained?


My season one has five episodes. They are between 7K and 10K. I'm releasing them every two weeks beginning on Monday, August 10th, and I'm pricing them at 99 cents each. In addition, they will also be in KU. I will not be consolidating them into a single book. When season one is complete, I move on to season two.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My season one has five episodes. They are between 7K and 10K. I'm releasing them every two weeks beginning on Monday, August 10th, and I'm pricing them at 99 cents each. In addition, they will also be in KU. I will not be consolidating them into a single book. When season one is complete, I move on to season two.


Jolie, what's your thought process behind not bundling the season. A lot of the advice I hear is to bundle the season at some point.


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## Jenny-B (May 8, 2012)

Clearly, I have a ton to read... but I'm so glad I stumbled on this thread. Thanks for creating it.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> Jolie, what's your thought process behind not bundling the season. A lot of the advice I hear is to bundle the season at some point.


I wasn't impressed with what happened when I bundled my zombie series. (Not a serial, but still.) When they were selling, they did much better on their own.

Not every serial author bundles. Just do what works for you.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

Jolie, everything I have heard on here in the last bit was bundle those serials up.
Now I am almost half way through my first and was figuring how to bundle and you say you don't.

Trying to break a trail is hard, following someone can make it a bit easier.  I am still going to try to figure out pros and cons.

Perhaps serial in KU and then bundle and have that out......


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## bendanarama (Jul 25, 2015)

I've just started putting out my first serial, and given that I'm cranking them out one a month my main criteria is that each 'episode has to be over 10000 words - although, with the exception of the second story, all of them are way over that!

I'm starting the writing on my second series now, that runs alongside the first in a different setting, and I'm gonna alternate the stories each month once I reach that point. I've got plans for a third series, but I need to do some more on the first two before I get to that one.

So in short, I've got;

High Moon Rising - Cowboys, Werewolves, American folklore etc
Order of Britain - a series based around a magical guild that Merlin set up, and their adventures in the 19th century,
And a third series that I'm starting to 'storyboard.

If I ever get to the point where I can do this full time it'll be amazing!


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2015)

tomgermann said:


> Jolie, everything I have heard on here in the last bit was bundle those serials up.
> Now I am almost half way through my first and was figuring how to bundle and you say you don't.
> 
> Trying to break a trail is hard, following someone can make it a bit easier. I am still going to try to figure out pros and cons.
> ...


If your instinct tells you to bundle, then bundle.  Think for yourself. That's my motto, anyway.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

lol thanks Jolie!

You sound just like my wife there.  (nicer about it though)


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## Eva Lefoy (Jan 25, 2014)

I've basically  been writing serial stories of about 5-7k in a monthly self-pubbed antho. What is the smallest size for a good serial issue? I've seen 8k tossed around a bit. Would you say 8-10k?


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2015)

tomgermann said:


> lol thanks Jolie!
> 
> You sound just like my wife there. (nicer about it though)


Ha Ha! Keep writing, and good luck with everything!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

EmparentingMom said:


> I see that a lot of serial writers release weekly "episodes", and then consolidate them into a single book after a period of time. What happens then to the original episodes? Do you leave them up, or take them down? Don't you then lose the traction / reviews you've gained?


It's better to keep them up for a few reasons. For one, it helps by making the bundle more attractive to readers. Say you've got five episodes in a season priced at $2.99 per episode. If you release the bundle at something like $4.99, that bundle looks like a much better deal. It also helps for things like BookBub because they'll see the bundle as a deal for their readers, plus they'll also count the reviews for the individual episodes as well as the reviews for the bundle.



tomgermann said:


> Jolie, everything I have heard on here in the last bit was bundle those serials up.
> Now I am almost half way through my first and was figuring how to bundle and you say you don't.
> 
> Trying to break a trail is hard, following someone can make it a bit easier. I am still going to try to figure out pros and cons.
> ...


Consider your genre, too. If you're in something like romance, those readers seem more willing to pick up the individual episodes. But in other genres, they might balk at the shorter installments and prefer the bundles. I'm expecting my superhero serial to do better in the bundles than it will with individual episodes.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Consider your genre, too. If you're in something like romance, those readers seem more willing to pick up the individual episodes. But in other genres, they might balk at the shorter installments and prefer the bundles. I'm expecting my superhero serial to do better in the bundles than it will with individual episodes.


Also, as far as bundling, I can always change my mind. There's five episodes in my season one. After I get to my fifth episode, if I feel like bundling, I can do that.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Relatively silly question here: Does anyone put "To be continued..." at the end of their serial installments? Would it be considered cheesy to do so?


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## Neologist (Mar 11, 2015)

I don't know if "To be continued" is considered cheesy or not, honestly. But it might be worth looking at other ways to essentially say the same thing. Like, most James Bond films end with "James Bond will return." on-screen either before or after credits. The recent Marvel movies do something similar.

Then there's what TV shows do, by showing a brief clip from "Next time on <SHOW>: this happens!" I would imagine something in that could work in a serialized novel, though maybe it would need some adapting (picking out random sentences of dialogue the way TV shows do probably wouldn't work in prose).


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Neologist said:


> I don't know if "To be continued" is considered cheesy or not, honestly. But it might be worth looking at other ways to essentially say the same thing. Like, most James Bond films end with "James Bond will return." on-screen either before or after credits. The recent Marvel movies do something similar.
> 
> Then there's what TV shows do, by showing a brief clip from "Next time on <SHOW>: this happens!" I would imagine something in that could work in a serialized novel, though maybe it would need some adapting (picking out random sentences of dialogue the way TV shows do probably wouldn't work in prose).


Thanks for the suggestions.
My serial is more romance / daytime soap opera-ish. I suppose I could play around a bit to see what I could come up with.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm planning to do something similar in an upcoming short installment series. Something like "The adventures continue in Series title #X, TITLE." Takes up all of a line or two in the book and clues readers in that there is more to come.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2015)

Fictionista said:


> Relatively silly question here: Does anyone put "To be continued..." at the end of their serial installments? Would it be considered cheesy to do so?


Cheesy or not, I may do it. My first episode goes up August 10th. So I need to decide.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Cheesy or not, I may do it. My first episode goes up August 10th. So I need to decide.


Same here. I'm leaning more toward including it rather than not.

I just figured that along with the blurb / info about it being a serial, that I'll be including with the serial when I start uploading installments, the "To be continued..." thing might conjure up a little bit of anticipation (hopefully) with readers for subsequent installments.

UGH...this is my first foray into serials and sometimes I feel so much uncertainty, questions, self-doubt, worries, etc. I'm trying not to sweat the small stuff or the stuff I can't change, but it's hard. I'm confident in what I've written, but like with anything else I've written in the past, I always worry it won't be good enough. Either way, come hell or high water, I'll be publishing my first installment by the beginning of next week, so...EEK!

*Jim Johnson*: Sounds like a plan. Go for it!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> UGH...this is my first foray into serials and sometimes I feel so much uncertainty, questions, self-doubt, worries, etc. I'm trying not to sweat the small stuff or the stuff I can't change, but it's hard. I'm confident in what I've written, but like with anything else I've written in the past, I always worry it won't be good enough. Either way, come hell or high water, I'll be publishing my first installment by the beginning of next week, so...EEK!


Kick that fear in the tush and publish boldly!  Good luck on the launch!


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Jim Johnson said:


> Kick that fear in the tush and publish boldly!  Good luck on the launch!


Thank you!! I shall!


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

I write serial romances. I put "To Be Continued..." Lol, so no, I don't consider it cheesy 



Fictionista said:


> Relatively silly question here: Does anyone put "To be continued..." at the end of their serial installments? Would it be considered cheesy to do so?


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Violet Haze said:


> I write serial romances. I put "To Be Continued..." Lol, so no, I don't consider it cheesy


It's good to know I'm on the right track. Thanks for that.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2015)

Fictionista said:


> UGH...this is my first foray into serials and sometimes I feel so much uncertainty, questions, self-doubt, worries, etc. I'm trying not to sweat the small stuff or the stuff I can't change, but it's hard. I'm confident in what I've written, but like with anything else I've written in the past, I always worry it won't be good enough. Either way, come hell or high water, I'll be publishing my first installment by the beginning of next week, so...EEK!


It's my first try at serials, as well. But, I'm not that worried. If it doesn't work, something else will. 

* * *

I think I should run a Zen class for authors. 

Some of you guys worry so much that you'll put yourselves into early graves, and then what good what that do?


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

Phew, just read every post on this thread over the last 2 days! I got an idea for a new story that I frantically started writing last week, and I happened to be reading a serial for the first time as a reader, and my own writing kind of naturally took shape into a serial, being inspired by what I was reading. Nearly done first draft of episode 1, and I have outlined the rest of season 1, with vague plans for 4 seasons of 5 episodes each.

Hearing about all of your guy's success and pricing/promo experiments makes me even more excited to keep writing and start publishing my own serial! It's so helpful to weigh each person's opinons/experience here and then make a plan tailored to my own books/needs.

Anyone here writing YA fantasy serials? I'm going to have to do some searching for an editor (copy/line edits, not story/content I have beta's for that), so if anyone has a recommendation for a fast editor who does that genre, I'd appreciate it.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Jolie du Pre said:


> It's my first try at serials, as well. But, I'm not that worried. If it doesn't work, something else will.
> 
> * * *
> 
> ...


LOL..you might be onto something with the Zen class thing.

Worry is a trait I inherited from my mother. She's the queen of worry.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I am using To Be Continued.

And then, after the next episode is up, I change it to "Continued in Episode Whatever" with a link.

Then, after you turn the page to my mailing list sign up, you turn again and it's an excerpt. I shamelessly cut the scene right when it's about to get to the best part.

So far, my sell through is bad and my borrow through is about 60%, so I can't say whether or not it's working. My books are not linked right on my Amazon page and I'm not in my own also boughts (ugh!) so I expect that is not helping matters.

My sales/borrows are just okay even with promos. I am hoping they will pick up with episodes three and four. But, if the serial doesn't do well, I figure I can still publish the omnibus as an actual, you know, novel. It's just crazy enough to work!


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## Scatterdown (May 3, 2015)

My series went live today.

I'm putting in "To Be Continued" and an Amazon link. We'll see how it goes.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I use "Next...[insert next episode title here]" and make it a link.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Neologist said:


> Then there's what TV shows do, by showing a brief clip from "Next time on <SHOW>: this happens!" I would imagine something in that could work in a serialized novel, though maybe it would need some adapting (picking out random sentences of dialogue the way TV shows do probably wouldn't work in prose).


I think I'm going to use a version of this. Perhaps continue it with a mini-blurb for the next episode. I'll have a general outline, so I'll know what the next episode will be about.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

When you all say you're putting an "Amazon link", what do you mean, exactly? I assume you mean a link to your next installment? 

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Fictionista said:


> When you all say you're putting an "Amazon link", what do you mean, exactly? I assume you mean a link to your next installment?


I think that's what most people mean. That's what I've done in the past. 
You can use a bit.ly link or Amazon referral link (or similar service) to track how many clicks you get on it, too.


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## Sara C (Apr 30, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> UGH...this is my first foray into serials and sometimes I feel so much uncertainty, questions, self-doubt, worries, etc. I'm trying not to sweat the small stuff or the stuff I can't change, but it's hard. I'm confident in what I've written, but like with anything else I've written in the past, I always worry it won't be good enough. Either way, come hell or high water, I'll be publishing my first installment by the beginning of next week, so...EEK!


I am feeling the exact same thing! Also hi everyone *waves*, I've been meaning to pop into this thread for a while, but there's so much to catch up on so I put it off...and now have even more to catch up on.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Crystal_ said:


> I am using To Be Continued.
> 
> And then, after the next episode is up, I change it to "Continued in Episode Whatever" with a link.
> 
> ...


Is your first episode free? That's what I'm going to try to help get sell through


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

You're welcome...the worst part is putting out #1, and then when #2 comes out, going back to #1 and inserting links to #2 at the end of #1...and having to reupload it to all the sites.  lol And if you write what readers are wanting, you'll be fine. My #1's are usually free once #2 comes out or is close to coming out, and I know while many don't follow up with the rest, just as many do!



Fictionista said:


> It's good to know I'm on the right track. Thanks for that.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

JalexM said:


> Is your first episode free? That's what I'm going to try to help get sell through


I am in KU. I am waiting to do a free run until episode four is out. I figure that will give me the best ROI. I expect I'll get a Freebooksy and see what other sites will have me.

This is my first time trying to promote a paid title, so I am starting from scratch in terms of seeing what works.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Violet Haze said:


> You're welcome...the worst part is putting out #1, and then when #2 comes out, going back to #1 and inserting links to #2 at the end of #1...and having to reupload it to all the sites.  lol And if you write what readers are wanting, you'll be fine. My #1's are usually free once #2 comes out or is close to coming out, and I know while many don't follow up with the rest, just as many do!


Yes, tell me about it. Inserting links, while simple enough, is so time consuming. UGH. I may make installment one free after two comes out. How much time are you allowing before you release subsequent installments? I wanted to go no more than two weeks, but figure I'm setting myself up for failure if I do, as my installments are at least 20,000 words each. I'll probably go for three weeks between each installment. I plan to be state the release schedule for the installments so readers will know upfront when to expect the next installment.

Three weeks seems like a fair turn-around, although I could be wrong...what do I know?


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

I have taken too long before releases before, but many things happened that ended up with my sales being less than stellar. However, I hear that 2-4 weeks is optimal for serial releases. If you know the dates beforehand, you can put the titles and expected release dates in the description of the first one so people know how long it will be.  The one I'm working on now, the first came out in April, but I had to finish up two other serials between, so now #2 comes out Aug 18th, and the 3rd on Sept 17th. I just made the first one free to get people reading it. 



Fictionista said:


> Yes, tell me about it. Inserting links, while simple enough, is so time consuming. UGH. I may make installment one free after two comes out. How much time are you allowing before you release subsequent installments? I wanted to go no more than two weeks, but figure I'm setting myself up for failure if I do, as my installments are at least 20,000 words each. I'll probably go for three weeks between each installment. I plan to be state the release schedule for the installments so readers will know upfront when to expect the next installment.
> 
> Three weeks seems like a fair turn-around, although I could be wrong...what do I know?


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm worried about the "30-day cliff". I've always been slow following up, which is why I'm making an extra effort to have better turnarounds. Don't want to lose any momentum I build up. Installment one is finished (to be released in about a week's time) with installment two already on the go. I'm thinking about offering my release schedule along with utilizing pre-orders--although, admittedly I'm a little unsure about pre-orders. I've never done them before.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Violet Haze said:


> I write serial romances. I put "To Be Continued..." Lol, so no, I don't consider it cheesy


 I put "to be continued" at the end of every installment. Never thought it was cheesy, and it never occurred to me *not* to :-D 
Considering how shocked, SHOCKED ;-p some readers were that the story wasn't finished in (e.g.) Part 3 of 6, apparently it's a good idea to remind the reader that they are reading an installment in a serial ;-D {All of which info I provide in the "Book Description" but I guess some people download a lot of books free on KU and don't always remember.) I also put a 1-2 para "previously...." plot summary right up front in each installment.

DMac


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2015)

I'm upfront about everything, and I put "to be continued" at the end.  The goal is to find more readers of serials.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> I want readers who love serials.


Yep! They're out there!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> I hope so, Episode 1 goes live next Monday.


Exciting! 

~~~~

If you've got patience and persistence in this business you'll fare better than the authors who don't.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Good to see so many people are using "To be continued..." at the end. I don't feel so weird about doing it now. 

With that in mind, now I'm toying with the idea of putting "Previously in the "XYZ" serial..." at the beginning of each new installment just before the recap summary of what happened in the previous installment. I'm thinking of my serial more like a daytime soap opera, so I figure why not? 

It's my serial after all, I can do what the heck I want,right?


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

A question about covers. 
I'm looking at a few pre-made covers and I want to have one cover for the entire serial as this series is very budget constrained. But I notice that most of y'all have different covers for each episode/book.
Does anybody see any negative reason to not have to same cover. Even if it's not recommended, I'll have to have to same cover anyways. But I was just wondering?


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

JalexM said:


> A question about covers.
> I'm looking at a few pre-made covers and I want to have one cover for the entire serial as this series is very budget constrained. But I notice that most of y'all have different covers for each episode/book.
> Does anybody see any negative reason to not have to same cover. Even if it's not recommended, I'll have to have to same cover anyways. But I was just wondering?


You could have a word with the designer and ask if they would just change the title on each one. Having the exact same cover confuses the reader and they might think they have read the book before, when in fact they haven't. You could look at some of the photo stock sites and choose a graphic from there, put your own text on and change it for each one. You can even get free photo editing software off the net for just basic stuff.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

JalexM said:


> A question about covers.
> I'm looking at a few pre-made covers and I want to have one cover for the entire serial as this series is very budget constrained. But I notice that most of y'all have different covers for each episode/book.
> Does anybody see any negative reason to not have to same cover. Even if it's not recommended, I'll have to have to same cover anyways. But I was just wondering?


Many pre-made cover designers include an option to change things for series/serials: main titles, color schemes, book #, etc. Just find someone who does that (or do it yourself). It's the best way.

And when you have one or more covers almost ready, run them by the Book Cover Reviews group you see in my signature for feedback.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2015)

JalexM said:


> A question about covers.
> I'm looking at a few pre-made covers and I want to have one cover for the entire serial as this series is very budget constrained. But I notice that most of y'all have different covers for each episode/book.
> Does anybody see any negative reason to not have to same cover. Even if it's not recommended, I'll have to have to same cover anyways. But I was just wondering?


I've got the same cover for all of my season one. Just the wording is different.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2015)

Jalex, I forgot to tell you that I'm a Rachel Higgins fan, and she used the same covers for her successful serials.

http://www.amazon.com/Rachel-Higginson/e/B004SJTSCA


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2015)

Just wanted to add that I also use a to-be-continued at the end of each of my novellas. Actually I say "The story continues..." and then I put the first chapter up to the next story to entice. And a link to the next one! (It its published. Otherwise, I wait and put the link in later)

I will say its been tough for me lately. I got a couple of emails from readers who lambasted me for being a lazy writer and writing short novellas. I guess the lazy part was tough to take. I don't feel lazy. I work really hard. And I just really love writing a story with an episodic feel to it. I actually plan on writing another serial after this one is done.

Keep on truckin', y'all.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> I got a couple of emails from readers who lambasted me for being a lazy writer and writing short novellas.


Did you tell them that you love them, and did you give them a kiss? 

(I'd rather have bad press than no press.)


----------



## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Fictionista said:


> Good to see so many people are using "To be continued..." at the end. I don't feel so weird about doing it now.
> 
> With that in mind, now I'm toying with the idea of putting "Previously in the "XYZ" serial..." at the beginning of each new installment just before the recap summary of what happened in the previous installment. I'm thinking of my serial more like a daytime soap opera, so I figure why not?
> 
> It's my serial after all, I can do what the heck I want,right?


Right! Also, it's just helpful to the reader, IMO. Even if you release all your installments at once (which some serial authors do), there's no guarantee the reader will READ each installment all at once. And I want to make it as easy as possible for the reader who may have finished Part 3 a few weeks earlier to get caught up and then caught up IN Part 4, etc. :-D

DMac


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Doglover said:


> You could have a word with the designer and ask if they would just change the title on each one. Having the exact same cover confuses the reader and they might think they have read the book before, when in fact they haven't. You could look at some of the photo stock sites and choose a graphic from there, put your own text on and change it for each one. You can even get free photo editing software off the net for just basic stuff.


I've talked to two designers. Both would charge full price for the original cover, but anywhere from $30-$100 for each new cover depending on how much is changed--just the title would obviously be on the lower end.
Or you could just design your own cover and just swap out the title. Make the title a large font, so that the change is easily distinguishable from the others.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I've got the same cover for all of my season one. Just the wording is different.


Jolie, I really like how you really defined expectations for your serial in your blurb and in the "From the Author" section. Brilliant! as the Brits say.
I'm stealing that.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Doglover said:


> You could have a word with the designer and ask if they would just change the title on each one. Having the exact same cover confuses the reader and they might think they have read the book before, when in fact they haven't. You could look at some of the photo stock sites and choose a graphic from there, put your own text on and change it for each one. You can even get free photo editing software off the net for just basic stuff.





Harald said:


> Many pre-made cover designers include an option to change things for series/serials: main titles, color schemes, book #, etc. Just find someone who does that (or do it yourself). It's the best way.
> 
> And when you have one or more covers almost ready, run them by the Book Cover Reviews group you see in my signature for feedback.





Jolie du Pre said:


> I've got the same cover for all of my season one. Just the wording is different.





Jolie du Pre said:


> Jalex, I forgot to tell you that I'm a Rachel Higgins fan, and she used the same covers for her successful serials.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Rachel-Higginson/e/B004SJTSCA


Thanks for the suggestion all! I think I got it figured out. 
If not then I found some pre-made covers for cheap that could work for my story. Either i'll have the same cover slightly modified for each episode, or I'll just buy a few premade covers at a time so not to spend too much on them at once.


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Fictionista said:


> Good to see so many people are using "To be continued..." at the end. I don't feel so weird about doing it now.
> 
> With that in mind, now I'm toying with the idea of putting "Previously in the "XYZ" serial..." at the beginning of each new installment just before the recap summary of what happened in the previous installment. I'm thinking of my serial more like a daytime soap opera, so I figure why not?
> 
> It's my serial after all, I can do what the heck I want,right?


I really like those ideas, I've thought about how to catch up the reader without sacrificing your new episode's storyline. You're right. Calling them episodes makes you feel like you can do more of a daytime tv sort of thing.


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

JalexM said:


> A question about covers.
> I'm looking at a few pre-made covers and I want to have one cover for the entire serial as this series is very budget constrained. But I notice that most of y'all have different covers for each episode/book.
> Does anybody see any negative reason to not have to same cover. Even if it's not recommended, I'll have to have to same cover anyways. But I was just wondering?


Hey Jalex, 
I use the same cover, but I put a big giant 1, 2, 3 etc on each so it's distinguishable at a glance. Very easy to do and won't cost heaps. Sorry, my signature isn't showing them properly but if you want to check them out, go here http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01130FY42


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

lansi said:


> Hey Jalex,
> I use the same cover, but I put a big giant 1, 2, 3 etc on each so it's distinguishable at a glance. Very easy to do and won't cost heaps. Sorry, my signature isn't showing them properly but if you want to check them out, go here http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01130FY42


I like that idea. So nobody would get confused.


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

JalexM said:


> I like that idea. So nobody would get confused.


Exactly! Nobody should get annoyed that they downloaded it thinking it was a full book.


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

JalexM said:


> ... Either i'll have the same cover slightly modified for each episode, or I'll just buy a few premade covers at a time so not to spend too much on them at once.


If you do the latter, make sure you have something strongly consistent across all the books. You want to brand the serial. I like the way writerbee does it with her Magpie Masquerade above.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

JalexM said:


> A question about covers.
> I'm looking at a few pre-made covers and I want to have one cover for the entire serial as this series is very budget constrained. But I notice that most of y'all have different covers for each episode/book.
> Does anybody see any negative reason to not have to same cover. Even if it's not recommended, I'll have to have to same cover anyways. But I was just wondering?


There's no negative to using a different cover for each episode. In fact, it may actually be better. But you do want to make sure that the covers are very consistent. Take a look at the covers for CC Wall's serials, each episode has a different cover and they all maintain a consistent branding.

For me, I use color overlays to differentiate the episodes and also change the titles.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Did you tell them that you love them, and did you give them a kiss?
> 
> (I'd rather have bad press than no press.)


Very true!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I think different covers is better in terms of looks and slightly better in terms of sales, but using the same cover with different fonts is certainly cheaper!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> Jolie, I really like how you really defined expectations for your serial in your blurb and in the "From the Author" section. Brilliant! as the Brits say.
> I'm stealing that.


Cool! Thanks!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> This, just cause.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Harald said:


> If you do the latter, make sure you have something strongly consistent across all the books. You want to brand the serial. I like the way writerbee does it with her Magpie Masquerade above.


Thanks, Harald! I love those covers, and I can say that b/c I didn't create them, LOL! I found the historical painting to use, but Gabrielle at Cover Your Dreams http://coveryourdreams.net/ is the one who came up with the awesome design.

DMac


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## Harald (Mar 23, 2015)

Yeah, different covers can work well *IF* the branding is strong. I think Perry's "Infernum" series (with the red backgrounds) is great. And also P.J. Post's with his selective-color "style consistency". Two different approaches but both strongly branded.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

It's an obvious choice, but The Arrangement has great cover branding.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2015)

I forgot to report here.  The first episode of my serial is published.  Got four good reviews so far.  I'm getting small daily movement. (Got a couple of sales today (I'm sure more than that.) But I'd never know it since Amazon is f*cking with my sales,  borrows and ranking it seems. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it.)  Whatever.

My zombie series was slow and steady until it picked up.  The same may or may not happen here. I'm starting over with paranormal romance.  My novel fell into the abyss, but this serial is doing better than my novel.

Looking forward to publishing my second episode on August 24.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

My first two episodes is now on preorder! I really like my second episodes cover. I kind of jumped the gun and bought covers out of order, so I have a cover for episode 4 but not 3 which I plan on putting on preorder as soon as the first episode releases.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013VUBNJM?*Version*=1&*entries*=0
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013VVSRMM?*Version*=1&*entries*=0
The descriptions aren't fully finished and the manuscript I uploaded isn't even edited yet(Getting it done next week.) and has no front or back matter
But I just wanted a physical place for it already. I still have to think up an episode blurb for the second one.
I wonder if I could make a preorder permafree? I'm going to upload the first episode on d2d so I can have it perma free. Hopefully it'll work in my favor. Kind of worried about backlash though as I'm putting episodes 2-10 in KU.

I'm going to work on the descriptions tomorrow. Looking to set it out as weekly releases. After episode 5 I plan on going up to either 1.99 or 2.99 dollars as I think those episodes will be longer.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I forgot to report here. The first episode of my serial is published. Got four good reviews so far. I'm getting small daily movement...


Congrats on the good start!



JalexM said:


> My first two episodes is now on preorder! I really like my second episodes cover.


Congrats, Jalex!
I see that the first episode is not in KDP. Is that because you plan on making it permafree?


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Will C. Brown said:


> Congrats on the good start!
> Congrats, Jalex!
> I see that the first episode is not in KDP. Is that because you plan on making it permafree?


Thanks! Yeah I'm planning on making it perma free. Hopefully I don't get to much backlash from the other stores.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2015)

Thanks Will.    Good luck to you and to everyone else.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Just came out with Vanguard: The Complete First Season.



Season 2 is complete and ready to start launching individual episodes next month.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## MYLL (Aug 11, 2015)

What would you guys say for the following: I was thinking of releasing a new romance series of around 22-25k words each. Do I put them all on kindle unlimited for $2.99 each and then bundle it at $4.99-5.99 and put that in KU too? Or do I put each up for $2.99 NOT in KU and only put the bundle in KU? Or if you think it should be at $0.99 each and bundle at 2.99 or 3.99 please let me know and why! Thanks!


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I would go all KU. Most people get more borrows than sales, and a page is a page whether it's in a few episodes or in one bundle.

Of course, I haven't released my bundle yet, so I really can't say for sure!


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

Crystal_ said:


> I would go all KU. Most people get more borrows than sales, and a page is a page whether it's in a few episodes or in one bundle.
> 
> Of course, I haven't released my bundle yet, so I really can't say for sure!


Crystal - on a side note, I am really enjoying TBD, I think you've hit the cliffhanger thing just right. Looking forward to ep 4!


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Just came out with Vanguard: The Complete First Season.
> 
> Season 2 is complete and ready to start launching individual episodes next month.


Congrats!


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2015)

MYLL said:


> What would you guys say for the following: I was thinking of releasing a new romance series of around 22-25k words each. Do I put them all on kindle unlimited for $2.99 each and then bundle it at $4.99-5.99 and put that in KU too? Or do I put each up for $2.99 NOT in KU and only put the bundle in KU? Or if you think it should be at $0.99 each and bundle at 2.99 or 3.99 please let me know and why! Thanks!


For 22-25K, I'd price at $2.99, and I'd bundle at $4.99. I'd also put everything in KU.

However, I believe you can only determine what to do based on your own history, not based on what others would do. I've always gotten borrows, and I'm still a fan of KU. So that's why *I* stick with it.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Just popping in to see how everyone is doing


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> Just wanted to add that I also use a to-be-continued at the end of each of my novellas. Actually I say "The story continues..." and then I put the first chapter up to the next story to entice. And a link to the next one! (It its published. Otherwise, I wait and put the link in later)
> 
> I will say its been tough for me lately. I got a couple of emails from readers who lambasted me for being a lazy writer and writing short novellas. I guess the lazy part was tough to take. I don't feel lazy. I work really hard. And I just really love writing a story with an episodic feel to it. I actually plan on writing another serial after this one is done.
> 
> Keep on truckin', y'all.


It seems we need to make peace with these kinds of comments if we want to write serials. Some will love the form, others won't. I read my first serial last year. I was recommended the SPP guys fiction by several folks and was tentative to dive in. I should say, part of it was that I take part in a 52 in 52 group (friends reading and posting about 52 books in a year). I stayed away from the serials because I didn't have a "clean" way to judge them for the group (which was also slightly competitive).

I picked the first episode of Yesterday's Gone up and was hooked. Then came White Space. Then came the Wool serial (which does actually read more like a novel, me thinks).

I'm going in knowing that many folks will be turned off.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2015)

WickedRed said:


> Just popping in to see how everyone is doing


Slow, but steady, sales and borrows as I lead up to episode 2. (To be published August 24.) Good reviews so far.

No complaints.


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

WickedRed said:


> Just popping in to see how everyone is doing


I only post from time to time here. In fact, I'm trying to limit my KBoards reading as it was a huge time-suck a month ago. I need to write as much as possible and keep my day job.

But here's how I am doing.

I wish I could turn back the clock, but since I can't I made a decision that will lose some readers, but I think it the long run it will work out better.

About a month ago, I released the episodes of Arcanum Island S1 with E1 permafree. I saw a bunch of free downloads, got a couple of very nice reviews. With my schedule and the fear of not making back money invested, I used a cover from a fiverr designer (see pic with dead link below), quickly edited and polished myself, and put it on Amazon.

After a few releases, I started getting this sinking feeling. I wasn't proud of the final product. I chatted with my wife and she encouraged me to put some money into a professional edit and not-so-expensive, but pro book covers.

I pulled the serials. I couldn't stand having something out there I wouldn't want to read myself.

I used an inexpensive copy editor I found through a member here, and now I am pricing out a few cover artists (also found here). This is tough as the one I like better is twice to money. The other is quite good.

Right now, I have Season 1 done with edits ready to go over. Season 2 on my first round of revisions (I think I need to revise as I go a bit more). Season 3 (finale) has the general outline completed, but I need to work out the turn at the end of it all.

I have a few time-sensitive side projects and the day job slowing things just a bit right now. My goal is to start the weekly releases in a month.
I want to release weekly through S1. Pause for two weeks (staying easily within the new release window) and then start back up again.

Anyway, this is how I'm doing. Still excited about the project. Trying to remember that this is all really quite fast compared to so many authors out there. I've written the equivalent of two books since April 15.

Hope everyone else is doing great. Thanks for the continued motivation.


----------



## Guest (Aug 18, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> It seems we need to make peace with these kinds of comments if we want to write serials. Some will love the form, others won't. I read my first serial last year. I was recommended the SPP guys fiction by several folks and was tentative to dive in. I should say, part of it was that I take part in a 52 in 52 group (friends reading and posting about 52 books in a year). I stayed away from the serials because I didn't have a "clean" way to judge them for the group (which was also slightly competitive).
> 
> I picked the first episode of Yesterday's Gone up and was hooked. Then came White Space. Then came the Wool serial (which does actually read more like a novel, me thinks).
> 
> I'm going in knowing that many folks will be turned off.


Everything is explained on my product page, including referring readers to Wicked Red's excellent blog post on serials. What readers want to do with that is up to them, but I'm not concerning myself with it.

My job is to find readers who like, or who don't mind, serials.  It takes time, but I'm enjoying the process.


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Slow, but steady, sales and borrows as I lead up to episode 2. (To be published August 24.) Good reviews so far.
> 
> No complaints.


So glad to hear it! 
Mine have tapered off the past month but I've moved my releases to every three weeks while I tackle some stuff on my other pen name. I've got a four day promo push coming up this weekend though on episode one so I'm hoping things pick up again soon lol


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## WickedRed (May 25, 2015)

CM Raymond said:


> I only post from time to time here. In fact, I'm trying to limit my KBoards reading as it was a huge time-suck a month ago. I need to write as much as possible and keep my day job.


I'm the same way. The boards can be so distracting so I only pop on every week or so to see what's new and then get back to writing before I get sucked in lol



CM Raymond said:


> Right now, I have Season 1 done with edits ready to go over. Season 2 on my first round of revisions (I think I need to revise as I go a bit more). Season 3 (finale) has the general outline completed, but I need to work out the turn at the end of it all.
> 
> I have a few time-sensitive side projects and the day job slowing things just a bit right now. My goal is to start the weekly releases in a month.
> I want to release weekly through S1. Pause for two weeks (staying easily within the new release window) and then start back up again.


Sounds like a pretty solid plan. I've found I wished I had had more "finished" (as in fully edited) before I started releasing the episodes as there are weeks I'm supposed to be editing that I'd really rather be writing and it slows me down - lesson learned for season two I suppose


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gotten a few sales on the first season bundle for Vanguard but not much. I ran a bknights ad on the free first episode and got a few hundred downloads on that and I'm also in Patty's spec fic sale in a few weeks where I'm discounting the bundle to $0.99. Also thinking about running a Facebook ad on the bundle to coincide with the launch of season two later in September.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

I'm not afraid to try new things. Serials of 10K and under was a new thing for me. Good reviews, but sales for the first two are small, and even if sales pick up after the remaining three, I'm still returning to novella length.

In any case, _Pierce_ characters are now my focus, and I'm happy about writing again. None of this would have happened had I not started the serial.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

Boyd said:


> Woot! Congrats Jolie!
> 
> In another note:
> 
> I'm now back from the cabin in the north woods. With a steady internet connection I found myself sick for about a week with the warmer weather. I'm ready to get back into the saddle again. This month, with 2 weeks at the cabin and the rest at home, I've got about 60k published under a couple pen names and another 7k in process. Income is better than July with the new KU2. Don't let anybody tell you that shorts don't sell in KU2!


Thanks, Boyd! Good to know!  The same names are always talked about at Kboards, but you deserve more respect than people give you. You're underrated, for sure. I'm also putting authors on ignore who insist that you have to write novels. I don't wish to listen to them anymore.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Boyd, thank you for being a constant inspiration. 

Jolie, I'm grateful you stick around and share your experiences. 

Thanks, folks. Today was a good day but I wanted you two to know how much you are valued.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> Boyd, thank you for being a constant inspiration.
> 
> Jolie, I'm grateful you stick around and share your experiences.
> 
> Thanks, folks. Today was a good day but I wanted you two to know how much you are valued.


Thanks, Jim.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Boyd said:


> Just checking in to see how everyone is doing?!


I'm pleased that the summer slump doesn't seem to have effected the little sales I get for my serial. It's still mostly in the UK so I've got a Freebooksy coming up on the first episode in September. Have lost money on KU though.

I've also been writing a spin off serial the last couple of weeks. Only a 5x10k serial but I think it will fit well with the serial as a whole. Need to concentrate on season 2 soon. However, my time is taken up by my main novel series lol.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm so in love with serials....  

I launched the second season of my Bear serial and it's a happy little installment doing well. I'm trying a more aggressive release schedule of every 2 weeks this time around. I'm keeping my head down and my eyes on my own paper, because with my other serial group project I have to write one installment a week until the end of November. So far I've done 5 weeks of it and am still on track.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> I'm so in love with serials....
> 
> I launched the second season of my Bear serial and it's a happy little installment doing well. I'm trying a more aggressive release schedule of every 2 weeks this time around. I'm keeping my head down and my eyes on my own paper, because with my other serial group project I have to write one installment a week until the end of November. So far I've done 5 weeks of it and am still on track.


I'm so happy your serials have done well and are doing well! In fact, your sales are better than some of the top novel writers. You go girl!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Book one of my first series is in an editor's hands, and I'm hard at work revising book two before it goes to the same editor next week. The next four books are in various stages of completion, and I am soooo looking forward to finally getting that 2015 badge. My baby is due in five weeks, so the race is on, lol.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks!  And I see you've got vampires. I love vampires. One clicked


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> Book one of my first series is in an editor's hands, and I'm hard at work revising book two before it goes to the same editor next week. The next four books are in various stages of completion, and I am soooo looking forward to finally getting that 2015 badge. My baby is due in five weeks, so the race is on, lol.


I'm so excited for you, Jim! 

I've got three more episodes of my serial to publish before I can start publishing my novellas.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> Thanks! And I see you've got vampires. I love vampires. One clicked


I got a sale. LOL! Thanks! 

~~~~

My two serial episodes have received good reviews so far, but they're not selling. So, for me, it's time to return to the novellas after my season of episodes is complete. I've had good luck with those.  The novellas will be a continuation of _Pierce_.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I'm so excited for you, Jim!
> 
> I've got three more episodes of my serial to publish before I can start publishing my novellas.


Awesome! Go Go go!


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

VioletVaughn said:


> Thanks! And I see you've got vampires. I love vampires. One clicked





Jim Johnson said:


> Book one of my first series is in an editor's hands, and I'm hard at work revising book two before it goes to the same editor next week. The next four books are in various stages of completion, and I am soooo looking forward to finally getting that 2015 badge. My baby is due in five weeks, so the race is on, lol.


It's so exciting to be on the cusp of launching. Here's to great sales!


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I got a sale. LOL! Thanks!
> 
> ~~~~
> 
> My two serial episodes have received good reviews so far, but they're not selling. So, for me, it's time to return to the novellas after my season of episodes is complete. I've had good luck with those.  The novellas will be a continuation of _Pierce_.


I didn't start to see sales really happen until I released my 3rd installment. And then it was a slow steady build with each release. Fingers crossed it's the same for you.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Boyd said:


> I hear that! I don't even want to calculate where I'd be under ku1's numbers but I'm going to at the end of the month. It'll be sobering.


Why would you do that to yourself? lol


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Today is first day of a free promo on BEGINNING - Episode 1 of Anna's Legacy. I've also lowered the price of JANUARY - Episode 2 to 99 cents.
I'm hoping to spur interest in this teen/college age serial, especially since I still have 9 more episodes to go on top of the 5 currently available.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

I am accidentally writing a serial. I didn't know that was what I was doing, and then -- surprise! So now I'm adrift and had to actually push back the publish date on Episode 3 because everything needs rethinking, replotting, re-everything.

I'll be reading this whole thread first thing tomorrow!


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Boyd said:


> I first day as a full time writer was the same day the notice for KU2 came out. That's a hard pill to swallow. I think I'm a glutton for punishment.
> 
> I coulda been a contenda, i coulda been somebody


Ah, that sucks!

I'm not even going to try and work it out (I'm rubbish at maths so I would even be able to if I tried haha!) It's interesting, I seem to have got almost exactly the same page reads in two months (unless I get a lot more reads today and tomorrow).


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

VioletVaughn said:


> I didn't start to see sales really happen until I released my 3rd installment. And then it was a slow steady build with each release. Fingers crossed it's the same for you.


Thanks, Violet!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Hey, glad to see folks moving forward (and upwards). I've put my serial plan on hold while I get a bundle and a short story collection out. Should be today! Weeeee!

I have a zombie novella in progress, and I hope to fit the SF romance serial in there somewhere. I want to have at least three episodes written before I publish. I've vowed to finish up two novels this year that have been WIPs for far too long, so the remainder of this year is hella busy.

Since KUv2, I've been reshuffling things, trying to get to the longer stuff that makes more money. The funny thing (and by that I mean tragic) is that this has been my best month ever for sales and borrows, and thanks to the lousy payout on shorts I'm still not going to make much money.

Oh, well. It is what it is, as they say. Time to crap or get off the pot.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Could folks share some examples of non-erotica sci-fi or fantasy series or serials that have a lot of installments, like 20+? I'll do some digging as well, but thought if anyone had some immediate ideas, fire away.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> Could folks share some examples of non-erotica sci-fi or fantasy series or serials that have a lot of installments, like 20+? I'll do some digging as well, but thought if anyone had some immediate ideas, fire away.


Sean Platt and David Wright have Yesterday's Gone, which is now up to season five. I think they stopped releasing individual episodes and just now release the seasons, though.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks, Perry. I checked them out. I like how their season covers are similar. I'm wondering if something similar would work on individual installments. The series I'm working on doesn't really lend itself to bundling or a contained season format, so I'm trying to work out how I'd approach cover design and not exhaust the available pool of relevant stock art.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

You could go with a strong banner to brand them all. Look in my signature at the books on the right. There are about 22 in that series and they are stand alones. The banner in the middle is strong enough you identify the thumbnails on a page.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Just got the first three episodes of my Serial, The Men Who killed God, edited and uploaded to amazon for preorder. 
The first episode is free wide, as soon as it's published I'm going to contact amazon to hopefully get it permafree.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> Could folks share some examples of non-erotica sci-fi or fantasy series or serials that have a lot of installments, like 20+? I'll do some digging as well, but thought if anyone had some immediate ideas, fire away.


I could name you a bunch, but all of them are German, alas.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

JalexM said:


> Just got the first three episodes of my Serial, The Men Who killed God, edited and uploaded to amazon for preorder.
> The first episode is free wide, as soon as it's published I'm going to contact amazon to hopefully get it permafree.


And so it begins! Good luck.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

My free promo of BEGINNING - Episode 1 of "Anna's Legacy" has not moved as many copies as I had hoped. However, there has been some sell-through and I've picked up one review so far as well as some extra KU pages read. (5 episodes published so far, #6 soon to be released, then 8 more to go.)


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

CoraBuhlert said:


> I could name you a bunch, but all of them are German, alas.


That's ok. I mostly want to look at the cover treatments.

Mostly.


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

Once upon a time, I read this whole thread but now I can't remember if someone else has already asked this question, so if they have, I apologize.

How long is too long for a serial? When does an episode become a novella instead? The stories I'm writing right now are evolving into 20k to 25k long parts and there will be around 20 of them. Who knows, maybe one down the road will be complicated enough to be up to 30k, because I'm writing about time travel/historical politics/murder mystery/romance type of grand plots!

Would you say it's a novella series or a serial?


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Eliza Marie Jones said:


> Once upon a time, I read this whole thread but now I can't remember if someone else has already asked this question, so if they have, I apologize.
> 
> How long is too long for a serial? When does an episode become a novella instead? The stories I'm writing right now are evolving into 20k to 25k long parts and there will be around 20 of them. Who knows, maybe one down the road will be complicated enough to be up to 30k, because I'm writing about time travel/historical politics/murder mystery/romance type of grand plots!
> 
> Would you say it's a novella series or a serial?


My installments are meant to be at least 20K each, but my first installment (yet to be released) ended up at 27K+. I'm not worried since at $2.99, I'd rather give the readers more words for the money rather than too few. I'm aiming for my subsequent installments to be no more than 20K though. I'm not pressuring myself over it and simply giving myself room to adequately tell the story.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Eliza Marie Jones said:


> Once upon a time, I read this whole thread but now I can't remember if someone else has already asked this question, so if they have, I apologize.
> 
> How long is too long for a serial? When does an episode become a novella instead? The stories I'm writing right now are evolving into 20k to 25k long parts and there will be around 20 of them. Who knows, maybe one down the road will be complicated enough to be up to 30k, because I'm writing about time travel/historical politics/murder mystery/romance type of grand plots!
> 
> Would you say it's a novella series or a serial?


Sounds like a good serial. I've seen them run the gamut, from short stories like what Hugh Howey does with Beacon 23 to longer works. I'm like Fictionista--my novella serialized series is on the longer side of things--clocking in at about 30-35k per installment.

There are no rules--a serial could be made up of short stories, novellas, novelettes, whatever works for the story.


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

Awesome, thanks guys


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## Shaun Dowdall (Mar 8, 2013)

Quick question. Does anyone go down the audio book once their seasons are complete?


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

I've started to do audio. It's not a quick money maker, it's an investment.


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Eliza Marie Jones said:


> Once upon a time, I read this whole thread but now I can't remember if someone else has already asked this question, so if they have, I apologize.
> 
> How long is too long for a serial? When does an episode become a novella instead? The stories I'm writing right now are evolving into 20k to 25k long parts and there will be around 20 of them. Who knows, maybe one down the road will be complicated enough to be up to 30k, because I'm writing about time travel/historical politics/murder mystery/romance type of grand plots!
> 
> Would you say it's a novella series or a serial?


I think you can do that size. There's a serial I've seen released by one of the ladies in my RWA group through Random House doing the same. She's done 6 episodes in total at about 20-30k words each. I think it's called 'lethal in love'. 
Even the big publishers are catching on to the first episode perma free stuff.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> That's ok. I mostly want to look at the cover treatments.
> 
> Mostly.


Okay. Here you are:

Ghost Hunter John Sinclair, a horror serial that has been running since 1973:

http://www.bastei.de/indices/index_allgemein_779.html

Professor Zamorra, another horror serial, also been running since the 1970s:

http://www.bastei.de/indices/index_allgemein_749.html

The Black Pearls, a gothic romance series, been running for two or three years:

http://www.bastei.de/indices/index_allgemein_4951709.html

Maddrax, an SF/fantasy mix that has been running since 2000:

http://www.bastei.de/indices/index_allgemein_929.html

Irrlicht, gothic romance, running since the 1970s:

http://www.kelter.de/97-irrlicht

Gaslight, gothic romance, also running since the 1970s:

http://www.kelter.de/98-gaslicht

Perry Rhodan, SF, running since 1961:

http://www.perry-rhodan.net/


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Serial friends, how are you promoting your books/episodes/installments? Just drop it and let it sink or swim? 

Are there any promo sites that work for — or even accept — serials?


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## Shaun Dowdall (Mar 8, 2013)

Evan of the R. said:


> Serial friends, how are you promoting your books/episodes/installments? Just drop it and let it sink or swim?
> 
> Are there any promo sites that work for -- or even accept -- serials?


Good question! I'm about to launch so I'd be very interested in knowing what works/doesn't


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Evan of the R. said:


> Serial friends, how are you promoting your books/episodes/installments? Just drop it and let it sink or swim?
> 
> Are there any promo sites that work for -- or even accept -- serials?


For the first season, whenever I had a new episode come out, I would use a free day on Episode 1 and promote that. I mostly relied on bknights, they don't care about your book's length. Now that I've come out with the bundle for the first season, I've got a Facebook ad scheduled to run the same week that the first episode of season two comes out.


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## Michael Parnell (Aug 25, 2014)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Okay. Here you are:
> 
> Ghost Hunter John Sinclair, a horror serial that has been running since 1973:
> 
> http://www.bastei.de/indices/index_allgemein_779.html


Thanks for this list, Cora! Sinclair's Geisterjäger reminds me of one of my favorite museums in the world: Deutsches Jagd- und Fischereimuseum. I didn't see any ghosts there, but I could feel them.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

How are y'all pricing you'd bundles? My four episodes cost $10 together, but an erom around the same length would probably go for 2.99-5.99. I was thinking 4.99 or 5.99.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Okay. Here you are:
> 
> Ghost Hunter John Sinclair, a horror serial that has been running since 1973:
> 
> ...


Awesome. Thanks so much, Cora!


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Michael Parnell said:


> Thanks for this list, Cora! Sinclair's Geisterjager reminds me of one of my favorite museums in the world: Deutsches Jagd- und Fischereimuseum. I didn't see any ghosts there, but I could feel them.


The Deutsche Jagd- und Fischereimuseum reminds me more of this, to be honest:










That's an example of the curious German subgenre "Heimatroman", romance novels set in the Bavarian alps.


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Crystal_ said:


> How are y'all pricing you'd bundles? My four episodes cost $10 together, but an erom around the same length would probably go for 2.99-5.99. I was thinking 4.99 or 5.99.


I'm pricing mine at 99c each episode, but mine are about 7k words, so they are short reads. I'm still getting complaints that it's too short for the price so I'm not sure whether I will make the first 4 episodes perma free or just pull it all together and turn it into a book. Just curious, how many words are your episodes?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Evan of the R. said:


> Serial friends, how are you promoting your books/episodes/installments? Just drop it and let it sink or swim?
> 
> Are there any promo sites that work for -- or even accept -- serials?


I did a freebooksy for episode 1 and also tried an advert on a blog.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rue Hirsch (May 4, 2014)

Hi, I'm so glad to see this thread bumped so it took little searching for it! A question for you serial writers: one cover with different numbers or new covers for all the serials? Thank you!


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Rue Hirsch said:


> Hi, I'm so glad to see this thread bumped so it took little searching for it! A question for you serial writers: one cover with different numbers or new covers for all the serials? Thank you!


I think it makes a difference how long your episodes are. Mine are short, so I'm doing just the numbers thing. But I've seen longer ones with a similar theme that travels through each cover - like different exotic flowers but the same fonts etc.


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## Rue Hirsch (May 4, 2014)

Hm, that's a good point. Mine are 12-15k. I'm leaning towards different covers but I was just curious as to what others did.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

For three of my serials, I did different covers with same model. For another, I simply changed the "Part One" etc and the cover remained the same otherwise. For my newest one, I'll be using different photos again. Personally, I like using different covers for each but with the same type of font/size for title, author name, etc. in same locations.



Rue Hirsch said:


> Hi, I'm so glad to see this thread bumped so it took little searching for it! A question for you serial writers: one cover with different numbers or new covers for all the serials? Thank you!


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2015)

lansi said:


> I'm pricing mine at 99c each episode, but mine are about 7k words, so they are short reads. I'm still getting complaints that it's too short for the price so I'm not sure whether I will make the first 4 episodes perma free or just pull it all together and turn it into a book. Just curious, how many words are your episodes?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine are short reads, too. However, I've made it CLEAR what I'm offering. Therefore, if I get a "buyer beware," such as what you received, I'm not concerning myself with it. I will never let readers who dislike serials bully me out of writing a particular format. My decision to stop writing serials is *MY* decision - nobody else's.

I will be returning to novella format (25,000 to 30,000 words) after I'm done with my season one. The serials have been fun, but I've had good luck with novellas, and I want to return to those. I'm working on five novellas at the moment which will go to my editor in November. They will all be _Pierce_ books. I'm publishing those in December, with two more in January and two more in February.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Rue Hirsch said:


> Hm, that's a good point. Mine are 12-15k. I'm leaning towards different covers but I was just curious as to what others did.


This was discussed near the beginning of the thread and it seems both ways work. Most importantly, brand it really well so that people can know at a glance on a thumbnail page which books belong to your serial. I'll tell you the best decision I made was to use one cover, because trying to come up with 9 different ones for multiple serials would have been a time suck nightmare.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Rue Hirsch said:


> Hi, I'm so glad to see this thread bumped so it took little searching for it! A question for you serial writers: one cover with different numbers or new covers for all the serials? Thank you!


Psst....click on the "Add Bookmark" button and then you'll be able to go to your list of bookmarked threads. It's right next to the Reply button on the top and bottom of the thread. Easy-peasy.


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## BelleMartin (May 23, 2014)

Do people typically see movement on their serials when there is only one episode out?

I released the first episode of a new serial last week, and so far there have been no sales or borrows. I expected that for the sales (wouldn't really expect to see much in the way of sales until there are at least 3 episodes out) but I am concerned about the lack of borrows.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

BelleMartin said:


> Do people typically see movement on their serials when there is only one episode out?
> 
> I released the first episode of a new serial last week, and so far there have been no sales or borrows. I expected that for the sales (wouldn't really expect to see much in the way of sales until there are at least 3 episodes out) but I am concerned about the lack of borrows.


I'd think that it would work like any other book. The more you promote it, the better the sales. Sure, it may not sell as much as a standalone novel, because some are hesitant in starting an unproven new serial, but promotion gives it a better chance.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

lansi said:


> I'm pricing mine at 99c each episode, but mine are about 7k words, so they are short reads. I'm still getting complaints that it's too short for the price so I'm not sure whether I will make the first 4 episodes perma free or just pull it all together and turn it into a book. Just curious, how many words are your episodes?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Too short for the price!? You can't go lower than 99 cents except to go free. And why should give away your work? [I don't mean, making a book permafree as a sales tool, but "free" just b/c someone thinks it's "too short" for the price] The expectations of some readers baffle me.

I published for the first time in March [see my newbie badge, below :-D], releasing Part 1 of my serial Regency romance at the end of March, and then releasing an installment every few weeks until the end of June. I priced Part 1 at 99 cents and Parts 2 thru 6 at $1.99 each. I'd researched and gotten advice from experienced authors, and it seemed like a good price point.

But then I got some reviews complaining about the price being "too high" --someone noted that the entire serial (6 parts) added up to <gasp> $11, and politely pointed out that "most readers" are used to paying $2-3 for a book, and these serial installments are shorter than a book, and how this was so expensive, and would I consider making the next installments complementary? [sic]

I actually felt a little guilty -- the poor reader! -- but then I checked around on Amazon and saw how many novellas, shorter than most of my installments, are selling at $2.99 (not just erotica)

And a few days later I picked up some birthday cards (4), and they cost $12. No music or fancy sparkles, just regular cards. 
I'll bet the same reader whining about .99 cents being "too expensive" for a 7K word short story, wouldn't think twice about getting a greeting card with 10 words of heartfelt sentiment from Hallmark for $2.99. ;-p

I plan to bundle the installments and charge $4.99 which is less than half the total cost of all the installments. Some author friends have suggested that is too low, but I am a new author trying to build readership, so I'm willing to make the price a relative bargain. But I've learned to stop feeling guilty when some readers gripe about prices.

BTW the installments of MAGPIE are, respectively 35,000 words [116 pages per Amazon] , 20,600 words [72 pages], 25,890 words [94 pages], 18,000 words [65 pages], 24,000 words [83 pages], and 37,000 words [126 pages]. 
Total 160,490 words and 556 pages.

DMac


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Crystal_ said:


> How are y'all pricing you'd bundles? My four episodes cost $10 together, but an erom around the same length would probably go for 2.99-5.99. I was thinking 4.99 or 5.99.


During pre-orders and release week, I charge $0.99 for the individual episodes and then raise the price to $2.99 (except the first episode, which is permafree) and the bundle is priced at $4.99. So at the end of the first episode, I let people know that they can get the bundle for less than half the price of the individual episodes.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

I've gotten this quite a bit, even though it states it's short and first of three right in the description, but I've found it doesn't matter. Those who want to complain will even with advanced warning. I know for some 99¢ is "too much" for anything below 200 pages, but I've decided that's not the readers I want anyway. I've asked many times about my prices and my fans always say "I think your prices are totally reasonable" because truly, by the end, $4 (for 70k words) or $6 (for 100k words) for an eBook isn't that much.



writerbee said:


> Too short for the price!? You can't go lower than 99 cents except to go free. And why should give away your work? [I don't mean, making a book permafree as a sales tool, but "free" just b/c someone thinks it's "too short" for the price] The expectations of some readers baffle me.
> 
> I published for the first time in March [see my newbie badge, below :-D], releasing Part 1 of my serial Regency romance at the end of March, and then releasing an installment every few weeks until the end of June. I priced Part 1 at 99 cents and Parts 2 thru 6 at $1.99 each. I'd researched and gotten advice from experienced authors, and it seemed like a good price point.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> The trick to all of this working though is what Jolie is always talking about - a consistent and frequent release schedule. It's tough to get momentum, but the only way to keep it going - *don't be an ass-hat to your fans*, don't make them wait any longer than absolutely necessary for the next episode, especially if you end every episode with a cliffhanger.


Absolutely! As I told my Facebook fan page readers, there are only three things that will stop me from sticking to my writing schedule - 1. A family emergency, 2. I'm too ill to work, 3. I'm dead. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, *ORDINARY EXCUSES ARE USELESS*.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2015)

Violet Haze said:


> I've gotten this quite a bit, even though it states it's short and first of three right in the description, but I've found it doesn't matter. Those who want to complain will even with advanced warning. I know for some 99¢ is "too much" for anything below 200 pages, but I've decided that's not the readers I want anyway.


Yep, my serial episodes are 99 cents, but my 25,000 to 30,000-word novellas will be $2.99. If a reader doesn't want to pay $2.99, then he or she should move on to another author.

That said, I never had a problem with the $2.99 price for my zombie novellas.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Does anybody have an example of what they put for their back matter? For example what you would put to entice readers to buy the next episode.
I have links in mine to the next episodes but I think what put looks unsatisfactory


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## JennyJ (Jul 20, 2011)

yep


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Boyd said:


> Hey, is anybody interested in doing a google hangout one night? Curiosity and all...


As long as I don't have to be on camera in any capacity, totally interested. I'm a bit adrift, tbh, and could use some chat.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Boyd said:


> Before you start the hangout, you can mute your camera so it's just like a skype chat. But for those willing to do video, you can still see that also.


Sweet. I'm free most nights, so once we've got a handful of folks let's make it happen!


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## fallswriter (Sep 11, 2012)

Fair warning. If Boyd shows up to the Hangout as his alter ego, you won't get to talking about writing or marketing for a while. It is a sight to see!!!! I speak from experience!!!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Boyd said:


> Hey, is anybody interested in doing a google hangout one night? Curiosity and all...


I'd be up for it. Wednesday and Thursday nights are usually best for me.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

Boyd said:


> Hey, is anybody interested in doing a google hangout one night? Curiosity and all...


Hello! I'm still at my cottage in Canada. So I have limited Internet. I can do a hang-out, but not until after September 14. (Also, I have dance class on Wednesday nights.)

But if you kids want to do it before that, don't wait on me. No problem.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Boyd said:


> Hey, is anybody interested in doing a google hangout one night? Curiosity and all...


I've been hoping for something like this for a while....would definitely be interested. Pretty much any night of the week would work for me.

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Boyd said:


> Hey, is anybody interested in doing a google hangout one night? Curiosity and all...


I'm interested as well. I'm kinda the quiet type, but I can come out my shell for short periods.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Only one more day before the first episode of my serial comes out. Nervous as hell as I want this series to do well enough to let me quit my job. I know, high goals!
I'm not going to notify my mailinglist or fb page until it goes free. Unless it somehow explodes out of the gate, then I would remove it from D2d and put it in select.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

JalexM said:


> Only one more day before the first episode of my serial comes out. Nervous as hell as I want this series to do well enough to let me quit my job. I know, high goals!
> I'm not going to notify my mailinglist or fb page until it goes free. Unless it somehow explodes out of the gate, then I would remove it from D2d and put it in select.


Good luck, Jalex!

~~~

I make a couple thousand dollars a month as an article writer so that I'm contributing to the household and so that I'm not a 100 percent kept woman. LOL!

So all I have to do is make a couple thousand a month from my books and I can quit the article writing. I could have done it by now with the zombie books. I f'd up. But I'll do it with my upcoming vampire novellas, and I won't F up anymore.

Everything after $2,000 a month is gravy.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Good luck, Jalex!
> 
> ~~~
> 
> ...


Thanks!
Your story is the kind of motivation I need!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

Dance class for me on the 16th, but you guys have fun!


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

writerbee said:


> Too short for the price!? You can't go lower than 99 cents except to go free. And why should give away your work? [I don't mean, making a book permafree as a sales tool, but "free" just b/c someone thinks it's "too short" for the price] The expectations of some readers baffle me.
> 
> I published for the first time in March [see my newbie badge, below :-D], releasing Part 1 of my serial Regency romance at the end of March, and then releasing an installment every few weeks until the end of June. I priced Part 1 at 99 cents and Parts 2 thru 6 at $1.99 each. I'd researched and gotten advice from experienced authors, and it seemed like a good price point.
> 
> ...


You're totally on the right track, I think anyway. People are just expecting to pay less on Amazon these days, they'd probably complain about the trad pub prices. Just a shame that these people are so vocal

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

JalexM said:


> Does anybody have an example of what they put for their back matter? For example what you would put to entice readers to buy the next episode.
> I have links in mine to the next episodes but I think what put looks unsatisfactory


I put a sample from the next part and a link to read more, or .. Follow me on Amazon to stay updated when the next episode is released. I also have a link to my mailing list but no one uses that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Mine are short reads, too. However, I've made it CLEAR what I'm offering. Therefore, if I get a "buyer beware," such as what you received, I'm not concerning myself with it. I will never let readers who dislike serials bully me out of writing a particular format. My decision to stop writing serials is *MY* decision - nobody else's.
> 
> I will be returning to novella format (25,000 to 30,000 words) after I'm done with my season one. The serials have been fun, but I've had good luck with novellas, and I want to return to those. I'm working on five novellas at the moment which will go to my editor in November. They will all be _Pierce_ books. I'm publishing those in December, with two more in January and two more in February.


ta good to know it's happening to other people. I guess even Stephen King gets trolls hanging out in his back yard.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Boyd said:


> For those who want in on the hangouts, or want to listen in, send me your gmail address via private message. I'll do an event via google hangouts. How about a week from this coming wednesday? Say the 16th about 7pm est?
> 
> If it doesn't work, it doesn't work but I figured I'd put it out there. The google hangouts I've been apart of have been an utter riot and invaluable in information sharing. Anybody can blank out their video, or even go mute on audio as well if they wish. I know we can do up to 10 at a time.


I would love to be part of this, but that's too late for me (it'll be 1 a.m. where I live). Sorry to miss it.

In other news, the third installment of my serial went live recently. However, I was having trouble getting any eyes on it - no sales and no KU pages read on any of the books. Nothing was happening.

So I started a Facebook ad on the series yesterday. Bingo (sorta). I woke up today to my first 320 pages read, or two full reads of each of two books. Hope it picks up from there.

I'm planning to do a couple of free days on the first book in a week or so, with a few ads to help it along. Many of the advertisers said they wouldn't take short books (my first installment is just under 50 pages), but I did get acceptances at SweetFreeBooks and eBookHounds.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Hi everyone. Does anyone know if you can put six episodes in KU, and then also put them in a bundle that is published on all other channels? The first episode is permafree and would go into the bundle. Thanks in advance for any replies.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

lansi said:


> I put a sample from the next part and a link to read more, or .. Follow me on Amazon to stay updated when the next episode is released. I also have a link to my mailing list but no one uses that.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





JennyJ said:


> Jalex I usually put an excerpt & the description from the next one with the date it will be released and a link to the signup for the mailing list. I will not do a serial unless I have it all written, but not edited. You can add it as "rough copy unedited excerpt". I've done that too hth


Thanks y'all. I'll do that.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

juliatheswede said:


> Hi everyone. Does anyone know if you can put six episodes in KU, and then also put them in a bundle that is published on all other channels? The first episode is permafree and would go into the bundle. Thanks in advance for any replies.


No. KDP Select and KU require exclusivity. If you publish the episodes in KU, the only place you can sell the bundle is Amazon (either in or out of KU/Select).


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks for the response, Jim!


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I just published my omnibus and I'm wondering how I should link to it in my episodes. I don't want to activate decision fatigue, where people aren't sure if they want episode two or the omni so they get neither. Perhaps I'll put it in the front matter at the bottom of the episode list and in the blurbs in the same place.

But what about a link in the back matter? Right now, I have a "continued in episode whatever" link and then, after a mailing list signup page, I have a teaser with a "buy episode whatever" link. Neither of those back matter links feel appropriate for an omnibus link. What do you guys think?


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## JennyJ (Jul 20, 2011)

yep


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2015)

My serial episodes aren't selling much.    I can't wait to finish them so that I can get back to novellas.


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My serial episodes aren't selling much.  I can't wait to finish them so that I can get back to novellas.


Why do you think they aren't selling? Your covers and blurbs are awesome! Maybe they need more volumes out or more advertising? The entire "trying to sell more" game is probably completely different with serials, I guess that's what this thread is for. I'm going to launch a fantasy serial next month, but I have no idea what will come of it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My serial episodes aren't selling much.  I can't wait to finish them so that I can get back to novellas.


I may be misremembering, but did you say you weren't doing season compilations? Maybe you should consider giving it a try. My season collection of Vanguard is doing much better than the individual episodes were.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2015)

Eliza Marie Jones said:


> Why do you think they aren't selling? Your covers and blurbs are awesome! Maybe they need more volumes out or more advertising? The entire "trying to sell more" game is probably completely different with serials, I guess that's what this thread is for. I'm going to launch a fantasy serial next month, but I have no idea what will come of it.


Thanks! Serials, for some authors, are a hard sell. Unfortunately, I'm one of those authors. LOL!

Good luck with your serial. Yours may do just fine. Who knows? You'll have to see.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I may be misremembering, but did you say you weren't doing season compilations? Maybe you should consider giving it a try. My season collection of Vanguard is doing much better than the individual episodes were.


Yeah, my plan to not do a season compilation has been changed. LOL! I'll get episode 4 and episode 5 out (the final), then I'll combine all of my season 1 episodes into a series 1 (about 25,000 to 30,000 words.) Series 2,3,4,5 and 6 I'm publishing in December. Series 7 and 8 will come out in January, and series 9 and 10 in February. It will be a standalone series. So they tie into each other, but they can be read independently.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## lansi (Apr 1, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My serial episodes aren't selling much.  I can't wait to finish them so that I can get back to novellas.


Mine are only doing okay on KU, if that helps. You aren't alone. I'm thinking once the season is over, I'll get more sales for the collection. If I don't, then it's back to stand alone books for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Maybe, maybe not. See what happens with the next few episodes.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2015)

lansi said:


> Mine are only doing okay on KU, if that helps. You aren't alone. I'm thinking once the season is over, I'll get more sales for the collection. If I don't, then it's back to stand alone books for me.


For me, my serial of short episodes was an experiment that has so far failed. I'm not afraid to try new things, and I'm not afraid to fail. So that's okay.

The silver lining is that I was tired of writing about zombies and now I've found something that I'm excited about. So I'll get the two more short episodes out, then combine all five into a novella, then get five more novellas out in December.

I'm looking forward to it. 

P.S. My standalone novel isn't selling either, but I didn't expect it to. It's too strange of a book. I love it, however. But it is a strange book.

Bottom line - I've had success in the past, and I'll get it again.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Serials definitely require a hefty investment of time, I think. Sure, you've got people who will pick up the individual episodes on release day but there are also people who would rather wait until the collected season is released. 

You know how people say you really have to get out two or three books in a series before you start to get any traction? I imagine it's the same with serials. Except replace "books" with "seasons." I'm slowly gaining traction now that the first season has come out for my serial, but I imagine it'll get better by the time the season three compilation is available.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

(sorry if someone has already mentioned this -- I confess I haven't gone through the entire thread ;-p)

Has anyone heard of this company, Serial Box? 
"Serial Box is a new digital publishing venture looking to attract readers with serialized genre fiction that is produced very much like TV shows. The startup offers original fiction in e-book and audiobook formats that is delivered directly to consumers on a weekly basis"

http://bit.ly/1WdHqk4

Interesting development...so many serial authors (including me) compare the process to a TV series, I think b/c it's more relevant to today's readership than reminding people that Dickens, etc. wrote serials (b/c everyone reads those now as single books) 
And now Serial Box is doing the same thing, as a start-up company.

"Why not create original books like a TV series?" Barton asked. "We're trying to blend TV and book story creation."

The model is 13-16 'episodes', I didn't notice how long each one is supposed to be. Pricing $1.99 per or $1.59 each if the reader subscribes to the whole series.

May or may not be an opportunity for serial writers -- the article doesn't have specifics on the advances or royalties.

DMac


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

When doing serials what do you normally keep the work count at per book, 20k? More?

Only other thing I was wondering about is if you normally write all of them first so you can say launch weekly or every other week?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Bbates024 said:


> When doing serials what do you normally keep the work count at per book, 20k? More?
> 
> Only other thing I was wondering about is if you normally write all of them first so you can say launch weekly or every other week?


Mine are 15K per episode and I write the entire season in advance and there are two reasons why I do that. For one, it alleviates a lot of stress to have the whole season done in advance of episode one's release. And two, say something happens in episode five that I didn't initially plan for. Now I can go back to the earlier episodes and seed that stuff in early.

Also, since going back in Select, the rankings and sales on the first season have definitely improved a lot.


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

How many episodes do you normally write in a season?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Five official episodes. With the first two seasons, I've also included a bonus prequel episode to each season that starts off as a free giveaway to my subscribers and is later included in the season compilation. I've been mulling over whether to continue it with the upcoming seasons.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Could do with a bit of advice. I've written a spin off serial for my main serial Avoidables.

There's 5 x 10k episodes. 

I'm ready to release them all. Now, do I release them all separately or because they're so short should I bundle them straight away? Or do both?

Any thoughts?

x


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My serial episodes aren't selling much.  I can't wait to finish them so that I can get back to novellas.


Hi. I checked out your serial. I assume it's called Pierce? I'm surprised you have so many great reviews and it's not selling more. My serial, Girl Undercover, is doing okay, and I have hardly any reviews on the following episodes.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2015)

juliatheswede said:


> Hi. I checked out your serial. I assume it's called Pierce? I'm surprised you have so many great reviews and it's not selling more. My serial, Girl Undercover, is doing okay, and I have hardly any reviews on the following episodes.


My Pierce serial episodes are extremely short, and typically those are a hard sell unless it's erotica. Not always, but typically. Also, I haven't done much advertising for these.

The silver lining is that they have received good reviews. Also, I was tired of writing about zombies, but now I've found something new to write about. 

The fifth serial episode will be published October 5, and then I move on to novellas (25,000 to 30,000 words.) I've had success with novellas. So I'm looking forward to finishing these short serial episodes and then moving on.

(I also want to say that it's good for me to see what it feels like not to sell much. I got spoiled with my zombie books, and I took it for granted.)


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Could do with a bit of advice. I've written a spin off serial for my main serial Avoidables.
> 
> There's 5 x 10k episodes.
> 
> ...


It's up to you, really. 10K isn't too short for separate releases. You could try releasing all the episodes at once to try something different, Netflix style (but hold off on the bundle for the moment).


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2015)

Boyd said:


> well Ack... my big white whale I talked about a page or two back launched yesterday. So far it's doing well. Maybe there is something to writing longer once in a while? Going to keep experimenting.


Congratulations, Boyd!


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2015)

Hell's Belles will be coming out in two's now. Because its not selling lately and I have had some complaints on the length. So Book 4 and 5 will be one book (about 40k) and then I will do the same with 6/7, 8/9, and then 10 (the last part) will be a novel length book. I have to be honest, I'm kind of ready to be done with this serial. Like Jolie said, its a tough sell unless its steamy stuff. Mine is even harder because its YA! Ahhhh. I love the story but its hard to stay amped when you're not selling. 

I am definitely making box sets at least!


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> Hell's Belles will be coming out in two's now. Because its not selling lately and I have had some complaints on the length. So Book 4 and 5 will be one book (about 40k) and then I will do the same with 6/7, 8/9, and then 10 (the last part) will be a novel length book. I have to be honest, I'm kind of ready to be done with this serial. Like Jolie said, its a tough sell unless its steamy stuff. Mine is even harder because its YA! Ahhhh. I love the story but its hard to stay amped when you're not selling.
> 
> I am definitely making box sets at least!


I'm giving my serial two weeks and if I don't even get a few sales that weren't free, then I'm going to move it over to my more original pen name and bundled them up.  
It's hard finding promos for works under 100 pages. 
Especially when I don't know what my serial is similar too book wise.


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## Mystery Maven (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm contemplating an Action Adventure serial with 10-15 K episodes. How would you price something like that? Is there an easy way to navigate to serials in a given genre on Amazon? Is there an actual "serial" category?


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

BelleAC said:


> Hell's Belles will be coming out in two's now. Because its not selling lately and I have had some complaints on the length. So Book 4 and 5 will be one book (about 40k) and then I will do the same with 6/7, 8/9, and then 10 (the last part) will be a novel length book. I have to be honest, I'm kind of ready to be done with this serial. Like Jolie said, its a tough sell unless its steamy stuff. Mine is even harder because its YA! Ahhhh. I love the story but its hard to stay amped when you're not selling.
> 
> I am definitely making box sets at least!


It's hard to stay amped when books aren't selling, but *this is when we're tested*! How do we respond to books that aren't selling?

I believe that what you're going to do and what I'm going to do is an excellent way to respond. You make changes and you go from there.

Winners never quit and quitters never win.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

JalexM said:


> I'm giving my serial two weeks and if I don't even get a few sales that weren't free, then I'm going to move it over to my more original pen name and bundled them up.
> It's hard finding promos for works under 100 pages.
> Especially when I don't know what my serial is similar too book wise.


Good luck with everything and keep it moving. Make whatever changes you need to make, and go from there.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

I did a free promo and it seemed to give things a jump start. 
Sales on my serial [sweet Regency - NOT steamy; 6 parts, all out] were really sluggish in August, so I finally decided to try my very first promo - inspired by threads on Kboards ;-) I didn't really do any planning, I just realized that my KU time period for Part 1 was running out and I hadn't used any of my Free days, and you use it or lose it. 
So I went to Fiverr and asked BKnights for the Kboard special, and they promoted Part 1 of my serial for the 3 days it was free. The first installment is already at 99 cents, plus they're all in the KU program so available free to borrow for Kindle Unlimited subscribers; and I wasn't expecting anything. 
But there were over 2000 free downloads, and I picked up a couple of good reviews (and also a 1-star review by someone who hates serials and think they're a scam and how dare I market my books that way -- but I've learned to ignore those people) ;-p
It was fun to see what the sales dashboard looks like when the line goes up to 1000 (one day that will be the red line that indicates SALES!) but more important, the free downloads did give the rest of the installments a push -- over the course of the next week, I got the highest sales and KENP I'd seen since late July.

So maybe give that a try.

DMac


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

writerbee said:


> I did a free promo and it seemed to give things a jump start.
> Sales on my serial [sweet Regency - NOT steamy; 6 parts, all out] were really sluggish in August, so I finally decided to try my very first promo - inspired by threads on Kboards ;-) I didn't really do any planning, I just realized that my KU time period for Part 1 was running out and I hadn't used any of my Free days, and you use it or lose it.
> So I went to Fiverr and asked BKnights for the Kboard special, and they promoted Part 1 of my serial for the 3 days it was free. The first installment is already at 99 cents, plus they're all in the KU program so available free to borrow for Kindle Unlimited subscribers; and I wasn't expecting anything.
> But there were over 2000 free downloads, and I picked up a couple of good reviews (and also a 1-star review by someone who hates serials and think they're a scam and how dare I market my books that way -- but I've learned to ignore those people) ;-p
> ...


Hi Victoria,

a couple of questions (which applies to many others on this thread, so feel free to reply: 1. Why don't you make your first book permafree instead of 99 cents? I made my first three episodes free in a bundle---out of a 12-episode serial where the 12th book has yet to be published. It seems to me this is a much, much better way to get readers than to have the first book/episode at 99 cents. 2. I see that your third installment is almost 26,000 words and Amazon states that it's 94 pages long. How is this possible? My episodes are all 26,5 K and they never show as longer than 78, 79 pages. Because I didn't feel justified in charging $2.99/episodes for such a short-looking book, I've bundled my episodes in twos. Which makes each book 53 K, but that only shows as about 148 pages in the print version. It's really annoying. Just curious, are there any tricks to formatting to make it appear longer?


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> My Pierce serial episodes are extremely short, and typically those are a hard sell unless it's erotica. Not always, but typically. Also, I haven't done much advertising for these.
> 
> The silver lining is that they have received good reviews. Also, I was tired of writing about zombies, but now I've found something new to write about.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation!


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Boyd said:


> well Ack... my big white whale I talked about a page or two back launched yesterday. So far it's doing well. Maybe there is something to writing longer once in a while? Going to keep experimenting.


Congratulations on your incredible success, Boyd! Your new novel is doing incredible. Your cover is gorgeous. May I ask how you launched it? Did you just put it up on Amazon and hope for the best? Did you use ads? Did you have it at $2.99 right away? Did you use your mailing list? Thanks for any feedback on this.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

writerbee said:


> I did a free promo and it seemed to give things a jump start.
> Sales on my serial [sweet Regency - NOT steamy; 6 parts, all out] were really sluggish in August, so I finally decided to try my very first promo - inspired by threads on Kboards ;-) I didn't really do any planning, I just realized that my KU time period for Part 1 was running out and I hadn't used any of my Free days, and you use it or lose it.
> So I went to Fiverr and asked BKnights for the Kboard special, and they promoted Part 1 of my serial for the 3 days it was free. The first installment is already at 99 cents, plus they're all in the KU program so available free to borrow for Kindle Unlimited subscribers; and I wasn't expecting anything.
> But there were over 2000 free downloads, and I picked up a couple of good reviews (and also a 1-star review by someone who hates serials and think they're a scam and how dare I market my books that way -- but I've learned to ignore those people) ;-p
> ...


Yeah, I'm publishing six novellas all at the same time (Liliana Nirvana method.) The first book in the series will be the five serial episodes combined. The books will all link to each other, and I'll be pushing book one hard with the Select free days.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

juliatheswede said:


> Hi Victoria,
> 
> a couple of questions (which applies to many others on this thread, so feel free to reply: 1. Why don't you make your first book permafree instead of 99 cents? I made my first three episodes free in a bundle---out of a 12-episode serial where the 12th book has yet to be published. It seems to me this is a much, much better way to get readers than to have the first book/episode at 99 cents. 2. I see that your third installment is almost 26,000 words and Amazon states that it's 94 pages long. How is this possible? My episodes are all 26,5 K and they never show as longer than 78, 79 pages. Because I didn't feel justified in charging $2.99/episodes for such a short-looking book, I've bundled my episodes in twos. Which makes each book 53 K, but that only shows as about 148 pages in the print version. It's really annoying. Just curious, are there any tricks to formatting to make it appear longer?


I just wanted to say that my zombie novellas were all between 18,000 and 25,000. I charged $2.99 for them, and that was never a problem. I did go permafree on the first one, and that was one of the best decisions I've made. I intend to do permafree again with other first books in a series.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

writerbee said:


> I did a free promo and it seemed to give things a jump start.
> Sales on my serial [sweet Regency - NOT steamy; 6 parts, all out] were really sluggish in August, so I finally decided to try my very first promo - inspired by threads on Kboards ;-) I didn't really do any planning, I just realized that my KU time period for Part 1 was running out and I hadn't used any of my Free days, and you use it or lose it.
> So I went to Fiverr and asked BKnights for the Kboard special, and they promoted Part 1 of my serial for the 3 days it was free. The first installment is already at 99 cents, plus they're all in the KU program so available free to borrow for Kindle Unlimited subscribers; and I wasn't expecting anything.
> But there were over 2000 free downloads, and I picked up a couple of good reviews (and also a 1-star review by someone who hates serials and think they're a scam and how dare I market my books that way -- but I've learned to ignore those people) ;-p
> ...


did a bknight and awesomegang and only ended up with 125 downloads :/
My last try will be freebooksy who did good for me in the past and if that doesn't work then I'm going to bundle them. I think I'd have an easy time promoting it with a somewhat more known pen name.


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## JalexM (May 14, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> Good luck with everything and keep it moving. Make whatever changes you need to make, and go from there.


Thanks for the motivation. I did well with free in the past, I don't know why I'm barely getting a single download a day. But i'll see what happens in two weeks and then make my changes for the beginning of November.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Mystery Maven said:


> I'm contemplating an Action Adventure serial with 10-15 K episodes. How would you price something like that? Is there an easy way to navigate to serials in a given genre on Amazon? Is there an actual "serial" category?


There is a serial category (or was, not sure if it's still there anymore), but only for Amazon imprints. There is a short reads category, though. Your episodes will automatically get dropped in there based on length so you don't have to worry about any keywords.

As for pricing, my superhero action/adventure serial consists of 15K episodes. During the serial release period, I price the episodes at $0.99. Then I raise them up to $2.99 when the box set comes out to make the box set look like a more attractive deal (except for the first episode of the first season, which I keep at $0.99).


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## Mystery Maven (Sep 17, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> There is a serial category (or was, not sure if it's still there anymore), but only for Amazon imprints. There is a short reads category, though. Your episodes will automatically get dropped in there based on length so you don't have to worry about any keywords.
> 
> As for pricing, my superhero action/adventure serial consists of 15K episodes. During the serial release period, I price the episodes at $0.99. Then I raise them up to $2.99 when the box set comes out to make the box set look like a more attractive deal (except for the first episode of the first season, which I keep at $0.99).


Thanks, Perry!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Yeah, I've used bknights a lot when my first episode is on a free run. Also, if you have KDROI and you're in KDP Select, then you can use that to automatically submit your episodes on a free run to a bunch of sites that don't charge. It's hit or miss whether or not they'll run your promo because the free spots aren't guaranteed a slot, but it's worth a try.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks, Perry and P.J.

I think I'm going to do what Perry suggested about releasing them all in one go Netflix style. Because I have the main serial, it is a spin off from that. It can be read before or after, it doesn't effect it.

Then I'll bundle it for xmas I think.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Yeah, I've used bknights a lot when my first episode is on a free run. Also, if you have KDROI and you're in KDP Select, then you can use that to automatically submit your episodes on a free run to a bunch of sites that don't charge. It's hit or miss whether or not they'll run your promo because the free spots aren't guaranteed a slot, but it's worth a try.


Perry, I've never heard of KDROI. Have you used it?

Scratch that. Boyd told me all I needed to know in another thread.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

JalexM said:


> did a bknight and awesomegang and only ended up with 125 downloads :/
> My last try will be freebooksy who did good for me in the past and if that doesn't work then I'm going to bundle them. I think I'd have an easy time promoting it with a somewhat more known pen name.


For me bundling my episodes has worked great,much better than when they were single episodes. I bundled the first three, then the two-episode bundles. I have 12 episodes total, the 12th about to published. 26.5 K length per episode.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I just wanted to say that my zombie novellas were all between 18,000 and 25,000. I charged $2.99 for them, and that was never a problem. I did go permafree on the first one, and that was one of the best decisions I've made. I intend to do permafree again with other first books in a series.


Thanks for this input, Jolie. I did have my original 26,4 K episodes separately and they did incredibly well on B & N, but not on Amazon (back in April). At the moment, my focus is to get as many ppl as possible to take a chance on me and my serial as opposed to making the most I can per bundle or episode. I saw that both your zombie novellas show as having 100-something pages. Do the show as being this long only because you have print versions of them? I know that having a print version will make them seem longer than if you only have e-book versions.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Boyd said:


> I just put it up and used my mailing list. Didn't do it properly because i was flying in the morning and had run out of time.


Thanks for sharing, Boyd.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Ohh, I can join in here now!

I'm writing a dragon shifter serial. Episodes are 15-20k, and I have 2 out so far. Trying to release one a month/6 weeks minimum. So far they're not doing too badly (for me). Hoping they will pick up once I have a few more out though!


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

*Thanks for this input, Jolie. I did have my original 26,4 K episodes separately and they did incredibly well on B & N, but not on Amazon (back in April).*

My first and second zombie books were both in KDP Select. Those *two novellas* got me to four figures. (I lost that income because I took too long to publish the third.) So I believe I can get to four figures again with 25,000 to 30,000 length novellas in KDP Select if I stick to my publishing schedule this time, which I intend to do. (I've learned my lesson on that one.) My royalty check this month was only $185. Therefore, I have a lot to do to get back to where I want to be.

*I saw that both your zombie novellas show as having 100-something pages. Do the show as being this long only because you have print versions of them? I know that having a print version will make them seem longer than if you only have e-book versions.*

When I click on one of the arrows, I get "Contains real page numbers based on the print edition." So yeah.

But as I've already indicated, when readers have left reviews for one of my zombie books, very few of them have complained about the length. They've complained about other things, but not about the length. So I'm fine with $2.99 for 25,000 to 30,000-word novellas.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2015)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Ohh, I can join in here now!
> 
> I'm writing a dragon shifter serial. Episodes are 15-20k, and I have 2 out so far. Trying to release one a month/6 weeks minimum. So far they're not doing too badly (for me). Hoping they will pick up once I have a few more out though!


Hey there, Rinelle! Good luck with everything! I love your covers.


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

I was wondering about a Facebook group for serial writers. We've just created a YA one and it works really well. 

Is there one for serial writers does anyone know?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

rachelmedhurst said:


> I was wondering about a Facebook group for serial writers. We've just created a YA one and it works really well.
> 
> Is there one for serial writers does anyone know?


A quick Facebook search brought up a couple, but I don't know any of the writers in them. One was a private group.

A FB group would be fun, or a Google+ group.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> A quick Facebook search brought up a couple, but I don't know any of the writers in them. One was a private group.
> 
> A FB group would be fun, or a Google+ group.


Great idea! I don't know how to use Google + yet, but that would make me learn. ;-p


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

writerbee said:


> Great idea! I don't know how to use Google + yet, but that would make me learn. ;-p


It's easy peasy. I started one late last year for pulp speed writers. I went from knowing nothing about Google+ to being functional with it in an hour or so.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

juliatheswede said:


> Hi Victoria,
> 
> a couple of questions (which applies to many others on this thread, so feel free to reply: 1. Why don't you make your first book permafree instead of 99 cents? I made my first three episodes free in a bundle---out of a 12-episode serial where the 12th book has yet to be published. It seems to me this is a much, much better way to get readers than to have the first book/episode at 99 cents. 2. I see that your third installment is almost 26,000 words and Amazon states that it's 94 pages long. How is this possible? My episodes are all 26,5 K and they never show as longer than 78, 79 pages. Because I didn't feel justified in charging $2.99/episodes for such a short-looking book, I've bundled my episodes in twos. Which makes each book 53 K, but that only shows as about 148 pages in the print version. It's really annoying. Just curious, are there any tricks to formatting to make it appear longer?


Hi Julia (the Swede)

(1) I didn't make Part 1 *permafree* when I first published, b/c the other parts weren't out yet. So there was nothing for the free book to drive sales to. When all 6 parts were finally out there, I just wanted to watch for a while and see how it all worked as a group of installments in a story, each with a price.

I do plan to make it permafree eventually  The promo was also an experiment to see what free did for sales/borrows [kenp] I didn't want to make it perma free until I'd gotten some benefit from having a sale, which did goose sales/borrows for a while.

Also I plan to bundle the installments eventually, and trying to figure out when the best time for that would be. At that point a permafree Part 1 would basically be an extended "look inside". And I'm not sure if AZ would allow Part 1 to be free, if Parts 1-6 are published as a bundle? 
But mostly I've been putting off decisions on the first serial, while working feverishly on the sequel. 

(2a) *26K = 94 pages -- honestly, I have NO idea how Amazon calculates the pages! *I've read their explanation and it makes no sense to me. Believe me, I didn't do anything to format it in a special way to maximize page count. I barely got it formatted so it would work as a mobi ;-p (still learning!)

There are threads on KBoards that talk about the Amazon Page issue -- I think someone said they corrected 4 typos, and republished, and somehow that "added" 10 more pages in the official page count! (when it was the identical word count). Someone also said that apparently (counter-intuitively) single spacing creates more pages than double-spacing. Huh?
So...who knows. You should ask KDP Support what gives?

(2b) And *post the word count in your description*. Even before AZ switched to the KENP system, I included word count in my description of each installment, because I know as a reader I'm often curious about how long a book is, and I wanted people to see the actual word count so they could judge whether it was short, long, etc. It's all relative. Anyway, as some others have said, there are plenty of short stories/novellas out there selling for $2.99. I priced mine at $1.99 b/c I'm a new author and wanted to encourage people to take a look.

Cheers, 
Victoria/DMac/writerbee [so many personas! :-D]


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> It's easy peasy. I started one late last year for pulp speed writers. I went from knowing nothing about Google+ to being functional with it in an hour or so.


That's very reassuring ;-) (Of course people all told me MailChimp was easy, and I'm still trying to figure out the newsletter templates...;-p)

DMac


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Jolie du Pre said:


> *Thanks for this input, Jolie. I did have my original 26,4 K episodes separately and they did incredibly well on B & N, but not on Amazon (back in April).*
> 
> My first and second zombie books were both in KDP Select. Those *two novellas* got me to four figures. (I lost that income because I took too long to publish the third.) So I believe I can get to four figures again with 25,000 to 30,000 length novellas in KDP Select if I stick to my publishing schedule this time, which I intend to do. (I've learned my lesson on that one.) My royalty check this month was only $185. Therefore, I have a lot to do to get back to where I want to be.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation, Jolie!


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

writerbee said:


> Hi Julia (the Swede)
> 
> (1) I didn't make Part 1 *permafree* when I first published, b/c the other parts weren't out yet. So there was nothing for the free book to drive sales to. When all 6 parts were finally out there, I just wanted to watch for a while and see how it all worked as a group of installments in a story, each with a price.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to answer so specifically, Victoria. I hear you about word counts. Will ask Amazon, though I think I already did and didn't get a satisfactory answer, but can't remember. It doesn't hurt to ask again to be sure. I was thinking about posting word count in my blurb, but haven't because I can't imagine the majority of readers know the difference in page count between, say 45K and 70K. But I could be wrong of course. I agree it's smarter to go with lower prices when you're a new author to get as many eyeballs on the books as possible. That's why I'm so incredibly annoyed that my two-episode bundles that I charge $2.99 for show as 148-ish pages when they're almost 53K long. Really, it should look more like _200 _pages . Last, I'm also pretty confused about Mailchimp. Don't find it particularly userfriendly at all


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2015)

My editor has the last serial episode I'll ever write again.  DONE WITH THAT!  It was a fun experiment, but it didn't work for me.  Publishing it on October 5, as scheduled, and then on to my 25,000 to 30,000-word novellas (in both eBook and print)  for publication in December.  

Onward and upward!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

This thread is so huge now!
I wanted to ask you guys, what do you think of cliffhangers? Do you mind them in completed story arcs when the story is finished but there's a cliffhanger revealing what will come next? I see A.R. Kahler's Pale Queen Rising there's one review warning about cliffhangers and one customer wrote that even though with KU it's free, he/she will skip this book. The answer of that reviews was that the story arc is complete.This is the second one I see. recently on BookBub I clicked on a paranormal romance freebie where a lot of the first reviews warned against a cliffhanger. I read some reviews like "If the author is any good, she'll manage to finish a complete book, without leaving a cliffhanger". In that case, it seemed that the author just cut the book in the midst of a turning point or was it a battle?


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Just cutting up a book is cheating the reader, in my opinion. A serial is written to complete part of the story in each episode, while leaving some things unresolved or else introducing another element. That's how you get readers interested in continuing, to answer the age-old question:  what happens next?

If any of you watched "The Last Ship" on TV, you saw an awesome cliffhanger in the final episode of the season. I won't spoiler it here, but I nearly jumped off the couch when the show ended. "Zoo" had a pretty good cliffhanger ending as well. The first season's plot was wrapped up, leaving our intrepid heroes in a mess.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Cliffhangers can work, depending on the structure of the series or serial. I'm writing my series like a serialized tv show, so while each episode raises a question and resolves it, there are subplots and other issues that carry from one episode to the next. Sometimes I'll use major cliffhangers, sometimes I won't. 

I loved the way Star Trek TNG ended their third season--Best of Both Worlds, Part 1. Great cliffhanger that had every fan talking all through the summer. At least I won't make my readers wait several months to see the resolution.


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

I am one of those 'dreaded' cliffhanger, put a book in pieces person, but each part of the book has an issue that's raised and solved, then a new one pops up, even if the first one is minor. These sell better than me putting out full novels, so I ignore those that complain about the book being in parts. I do what works. (That isn't to say I don't have full novels, because I do.)


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Thank you guys for your answers.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Violet Haze said:


> I am one of those 'dreaded' cliffhanger, put a book in pieces person, but each part of the book has an issue that's raised and solved, then a new one pops up, even if the first one is minor. These sell better than me putting out full novels, so I ignore those that complain about the book being in parts. I do what works. (That isn't to say I don't have full novels, because I do.)


Ditto! At first I was crushed by mean "reviews" complaining that the story was being told in parts -- then I decided to focus on all the positive reviews ;-D Because I do announce in the book description - and the author's note -- that this story is told in PARTS, like a MINI=SERIES. And right on the front covers it says "Part 1 of 6" "Part 2 of 6" etc. So if someone doesn't like serials, well, don't get the books! After all 6 parts have been published, I now realize there are readers who just like to complain. [Some also complain about the price. Apparently everything should be free :-D ]

Anyway, the serial format has been good to me, so far! So I'm putting out the sequel aka Season 2, in serial format as well. It just seems to come naturally to me, from a misspent lifetime of watching TV :-D

Cliffhangers -- I try to make sure each installment ends on a page-turning moment, even if it's not exactly a Perils of Pauline kinda moment (after all, it's not a Perils of Pauline kinda story!) I do wrap up the main storyline in a HFN kind of ending (NOT like Jim Johnson's e.g. of ST:TNG Best of Both Worlds! LOL I remember, that was a looonnng summer waiting to find out what happened!)

DMac


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

The problem most readers have isn't with cliffhangers, it's with poorly-constructed episodes. Readers think the problem is the cliffhangers but really what they're picking up is the lack of a proper structure. 

How many of those readers do you think watch any episode of any TV show and throw their remote at the screen and say, "That's it, I'm never watching this show again because they used a cliffhanger!" I'm guessing less than none. No one watches Breaking Bad and says, "to hell with this show! Cliffhangers suck!" Instead, they say, "damn, I can't wait for next week!"

And the reason is because a serial isn't just a chopped-up novel. Each episode has a structure of its own. You need rising and falling action, an inciting incident and a climax. The cliffhanger comes after that. But you still need to use proper story construction before you get to that cliffhanger.


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm pretty excited about doing the serial experience. I've started crafting a Cyberpunk Romance. If you have ever heard of Shadow Run the game think along those lines. I'm about 75% done with the first episode (which will be a shade longer than the rest) now I'm going to finish it this weekend an hopefully get 2-3 done next week. I'm aiming for a short season, just five books in the mix, but it's been a fun departure from what I normally do. I can't wait to get them out there so I can share more about the results.

My cover guy is working up some images for me, and I have made my editor aware of her pending doom! (New Style of writing might have some quirks)

Anyways this thread has been a tremendous help!

As for properly written cliffhangers I'mm all for them. To me a serial needs a story in each episode, and a large overall arc that also needs to be completed for the season. That's how they do it on TV and every week is a cliffhanger of some kind, good look at Game of Thrones it sometimes tosses you off the cliff, and it's basically a novel broken into ten episodes so it can work.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

rachelmedhurst said:


> I was wondering about a Facebook group for serial writers. We've just created a YA one and it works really well.


I would TOTALLY join that. I don't make time for Kboards much because it's a time suck for me in a way that Facebook isn't.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Jim Johnson said:


> Cliffhangers can work, depending on the structure of the series or serial. I'm writing my series like a serialized tv show, so while each episode raises a question and resolves it, there are subplots and other issues that carry from one episode to the next. Sometimes I'll use major cliffhangers, sometimes I won't.


This is what I'm aiming for. Sometimes an episode of a TV show drifts to a nice close. It's sweet, and reassuring. And then sometimes you get a To be continued .... I'm intending to hit both those notes, in different episodes.



> I loved the way Star Trek TNG ended their third season--Best of Both Worlds, Part 1. Great cliffhanger that had every fan talking all through the summer. At least I won't make my readers wait several months to see the resolution.


LONGEST. SUMMER. EVER.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Bbates024 said:


> I'm pretty excited about doing the serial experience. I've started crafting a Cyberpunk Romance. If you have ever heard of Shadow Run the game think along those lines.


I never played that but (*nerd alert*) I read all the GM manuals, etc, from cover to cover. LOL


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

I'd like to hop on this serial bandwagon, but need to get familiar with the pacing of 20-30K stories. Any suggestions on great serials that I should read?


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Logan R. (May 13, 2011)

Just jumping into this thread because I'm going to be starting a serialized novel soon. I got my start in self publishing back in 2011 with a serialized novel, and had some moderate success back then. Looking forward to trying it again though. It's going to be a literary scifi piece that I know probably isn't going to sell all too well, and don't really have a release schedule for. I know, I know, I'm doing everything wrong. But I just think it'll be a fun little experiment between some of my other projects. Looking forward to sharing my experiences with you all, as well as picking up a few tips.


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## Adrien Walker (Sep 11, 2014)

Looking for study case suggestions - successful serials in the horror, scifi, or dystopian genres. I've already picked up Boyd's, are there others you guys are aware of? Serials are a difficult thing to search in Kindle.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Z2134 (I think that's the right numbers) by Sean Platt and David Wright. That was picked up by Amazon, actually. I think they did 3 seasons. Yesterday's Gone, by the same authors, though I think they stopped doing the individual episode model about halfway through. That's newly-completed, so makes an interesting case study for wrapping your serial up, too.


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## Adrien Walker (Sep 11, 2014)

lilywhite said:


> Z2134 (I think that's the right numbers) by Sean Platt and David Wright. That was picked up by Amazon, actually. I think they did 3 seasons. Yesterday's Gone, by the same authors, though I think they stopped doing the individual episode model about halfway through. That's newly-completed, so makes an interesting case study for wrapping your serial up, too.


Of course, I completely forgot about the SPP guys. How about anything that began more recently, since last year? Perhaps written by a kboarder? Trying to narrow it down as closely to the current market climate as possible.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Adrien Walker said:


> Of course, I completely forgot about the SPP guys. How about anything that began more recently, since last year? Perhaps written by a kboarder? Trying to narrow it down as closely to the current market climate as possible.


Boyd's doing post-apoc, and killing it. Perry Constantine's Vanguard is really cool, too.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Adrien Walker said:


> Looking for study case suggestions - successful serials in the horror, scifi, or dystopian genres. I've already picked up Boyd's, are there others you guys are aware of? Serials are a difficult thing to search in Kindle.


Try looking in the Kindle short reads category. Most serials I've seen are labeled as a serial, so you might want to try searching for dystopian/horror/sci-fi + serial or something like that.

Check out the stuff CC Wall is doing. He's been doing pretty well with serials, like Black Star Canyon, The Brain Thief, The Gavel, and Hitman Black.



lilywhite said:


> Perry Constantine's Vanguard is really cool, too.


He's asking about successful ones though, so don't think I really qualify.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Perry Constantine said:


> He's asking about successful ones though, so don't think I really qualify.


Oh, hush. <3


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## rachelmedhurst (Jun 25, 2014)

Okay, guys, I've opened a Serial Writer's Facebook Group. The YA one I'm in is really handy for quick answers and cross promo. If anyone wants to help me admin, that would be great!

Please feel free to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1095793953777935/


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Okay, guys, I've opened a Serial Writer's Facebook Group. The YA one I'm in is really handy for quick answers and cross promo. If anyone wants to help me admin, that would be great!
> 
> Please feel free to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1095793953777935/


Requested to join, and I'm happy to help admin.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Okay, guys, I've opened a Serial Writer's Facebook Group. The YA one I'm in is really handy for quick answers and cross promo. If anyone wants to help me admin, that would be great!
> 
> Please feel free to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1095793953777935/


Cool! Off to join!


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## KDKinney (Aug 16, 2015)

I've been working on Part Three of my apocalyptic serial. I've been working on getting the first season done completely so I can launch the last 2 parts close together. The first 2 parts are doing Okay. I'm still a newbie at all this so I'm not concerned. I'm gaining experience. 

I have a few great reviews already on both parts. But what I'm happy about is I just got a 5 star review yesterday from someone that say they love it and they want me to hurry up on the next installment. I'm trying! Lots of ridiculous pain and meds slowing me down this week. ugh. It sure is motivating though to get er done.  

I know, it is a tiny little triumph. It helps when you're frustrated with other junk.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2015)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Okay, guys, I've opened a Serial Writer's Facebook Group. The YA one I'm in is really handy for quick answers and cross promo. If anyone wants to help me admin, that would be great!
> 
> Please feel free to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1095793953777935/


I'm not writing serials anymore, but good luck with the group!


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Okay, guys, I've opened a Serial Writer's Facebook Group. The YA one I'm in is really handy for quick answers and cross promo. If anyone wants to help me admin, that would be great!
> 
> Please feel free to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1095793953777935/


 Yay! Requested to join (under my pen name, Victoria Hodge) Thanks for setting this up!


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## Shaun Dowdall (Mar 8, 2013)

Well my first and second episodes are now up for pre order. Got two weeks off work at the end of this month some can blitz through a few more episodes.

I'm really enjoying the shorter length episodes Vs novels. I'm sticking with 20-30k which allows me to get one entire story line into an episode with an overall season story arc playing out in the background. Lots of fun writing a new villain into each episode while the big bad works behind the scenes 

Ended up with 10 different covers for my entire season, all of which share the same texts and main theme, but with a slightly different background.

Also, just requested to join the Facebook group.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Bbates024 said:


> I'm pretty excited about doing the serial experience. I've started crafting a Cyberpunk Romance. If you have ever heard of Shadow Run the game think along those lines.


I played WAY too much Shadowrun years ago, back in Third Edition mostly.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## abgwriter (Sep 12, 2015)

Question! Question! 
So here's my problem: I have a short novella (15k words or so) planned as advertising boost for my upcoming fantasy series. I'm on the fence about publishing the whole thing as a permafree, or releasing the 8 to 10 chapters or so as a serial to build momentum towards the release of my first book (which would be the sequel of the novella). *My question is, if I release it as a series, how do I go about the editing? *
Should I finish the whole thing, send it to an editor and then separate the chapters after they've been edited? Or should I write and edit chapter by chapter (or is it episode?) according to reader response? 
This is something that's been bothering me for a while now. Hope someone can help


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## TLC1234 (Jun 20, 2015)

Post deleted.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2015)

Boyd said:


> Here's the run I did for the world burns, roughly:
> 
> The World Burns
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, Boyd.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Those of you who eventually bundle all your installments into one big book -- or collect every episode into one season [whatever your analogy of choice ;-D] -- how do you decide when to do that? What goes into your decision-making process? Do you just bundle shortly after the final installment is published, or wait a certain amount of time or for sales/KENP to drop to a certain point? Do you wait until part 1 [Episode 1] your next series season is published? Ever or never?

I know everyone has different goals, YMMV, etc. etc. Not looking for "rules" just different elements to consider.

Thanks!

DMac


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2015)

writerbee said:


> Those of you who eventually bundle all your installments into one big book -- or collect every episode into one season [whatever your analogy of choice ;-D] -- how do you decide when to do that? What goes into your decision-making process? Do you just bundle shortly after the final installment is published, or wait a certain amount of time or for sales/KENP to drop to a certain point? Do you wait until part 1 [Episode 1] your next series season is published? Ever or never?
> 
> I know everyone has different goals, YMMV, etc. etc. Not looking for "rules" just different elements to consider.
> 
> ...


I'm bundling all of my episodes into one series novella (Book 1) and then I'm following that book with four novellas. All five will be published on the same day. New covers are being made for the series. Then after that, I come out with three or four more. Probably three. I don't like odd numbers. Then, I'll either continue with the series or move on to something else.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

writerbee said:


> Those of you who eventually bundle all your installments into one big book -- or collect every episode into one season [whatever your analogy of choice ;-D] -- how do you decide when to do that? What goes into your decision-making process? Do you just bundle shortly after the final installment is published, or wait a certain amount of time or for sales/KENP to drop to a certain point? Do you wait until part 1 [Episode 1] your next series season is published? Ever or never?


For season 1 of Vanguard, I actually waited a few months before publishing the complete season. The reason behind this actually had nothing to do with a marketing strategy, it was that I wanted to go wide with the complete season and I had to wait for the Select period to expire. With season 2, I think I'll release the collection no more than a month after the release of the season finale. Readers seem to prefer the season collection, so I'm going to give them what they want earlier.


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## Ian Jaymes (Jan 22, 2015)

Well I just went and hit publish on episode 1 of my new serial!  Thank you all- this thread has been amazing.  We will see how I do. It's Sci-Fi- alien invasion, but a bit different (I hope) in that it's largely NOT based on Earth, which pretty much is lost, but rather on the remnant colonies on the other planets and moons. It starts out from the perspective of the aliens, with subsequent episodes shifting to the protagonists and their struggles as they survive 'out there' and try to return home. The first episode was actually an early stand-alone I wrote long long ago, but then it got me to thinking, "well, then what happens?!" So I updated it, and kept going. Episode 2 is done, and 3 is about half done.  Episode 1 is only 8K, but subsequent episodes will be longer, hopefully ~15K. I'm shooting for 5 episodes for now, about 3 weeks apart.

I pretty much seem to be doing it all wrong, I still need that mailing list and website, with faster release of longer material, but let's see what happens...


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

I have one more interesting question and I hope some of you can help. I have seen serials go both ways but when you start a new book do most of you start with chapter one again, or do you start with the next chapter after the first book ended.

I have read a few and had seen it done both ways, wondering if there is a preferred method?


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Jolie du Pre said:


> I'm bundling all of my episodes into one series novella (Book 1) and then I'm following that book with four novellas. All five will be published on the same day. New covers are being made for the series. Then after that, I come out with three or four more. Probably three. I don't like odd numbers. Then, I'll either continue with the series or move on to something else.


Thanks, Jolie! So you'll be releasing all your episodes for the first season of your as Book 1, and then not doing serializing each episode but releasing "seasons" 2-4 as novellas, in the same series? Your fans will be thrilled to get them all at once, I'll bet  

DMac


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> For season 1 of Vanguard, I actually waited a few months before publishing the complete season. The reason behind this actually had nothing to do with a marketing strategy, it was that I wanted to go wide with the complete season and I had to wait for the Select period to expire. With season 2, I think I'll release the collection no more than a month after the release of the season finale. Readers seem to prefer the season collection, so I'm going to give them what they want earlier.


Thanks Perry! I've been wondering when to go wide, so far KU has been good to me, but it's the first time I've published, so I don't really have anything to compare it with. I'm thinking I'll bundle Season 1 and then release Season 2 episodes, before going wide. But still haven't decided...(and won't until I finish the sequel, and can switch from creative to marketing mode ;-p) 
DMac


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2015)

writerbee said:


> Thanks, Jolie! So you'll be releasing all your episodes for the first season of your as Book 1, and then not doing serializing each episode but releasing "seasons" 2-4 as novellas, in the same series? Your fans will be thrilled to get them all at once, I'll bet
> 
> DMac


Yeah, I'm not really calling them seasons, though. I'm just returning to writing series books like I did with my zombie stuff. So series book 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on. They could be read as stand-alones, with the introduction of new characters. However, there will be characters that may appear in more than one book.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Bbates024 said:


> I have one more interesting question and I hope some of you can help. I have seen serials go both ways but when you start a new book do most of you start with chapter one again, or do you start with the next chapter after the first book ended.
> 
> I have read a few and had seen it done both ways, wondering if there is a preferred method?


I start each new installment with a new Chapter One.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Bbates024 said:


> I have one more interesting question and I hope some of you can help. I have seen serials go both ways but when you start a new book do most of you start with chapter one again, or do you start with the next chapter after the first book ended.
> 
> I have read a few and had seen it done both ways, wondering if there is a preferred method?


Better to start with Chapter 1. Otherwise you could potentially confuse readers. Not everyone will binge on the episodes or even read them immediately when they come out. So when they get around to the second episode and they see it starts with Chapter 6, they may not remember that the first episode ended on Chapter 5.

Clarity is always better than confusion. In the bundles, the readers know they're getting a bundle and each episode in the collection should be preceded with an "Episode #" title page indicating that they're reading a new episode.



writerbee said:


> Thanks Perry! I've been wondering when to go wide, so far KU has been good to me, but it's the first time I've published, so I don't really have anything to compare it with. I'm thinking I'll bundle Season 1 and then release Season 2 episodes, before going wide. But still haven't decided...(and won't until I finish the sequel, and can switch from creative to marketing mode ;-p)
> DMac


My initial plan was to launch the individual episodes in KU and then once the bundle was out, put the whole season on the other platforms. But I had pretty much zero movement, so I pulled it and went back into KU.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> The problem most readers have isn't with cliffhangers, it's with poorly-constructed episodes. Readers think the problem is the cliffhangers but really what they're picking up is the lack of a proper structure.
> 
> How many of those readers do you think watch any episode of any TV show and throw their remote at the screen and say, "That's it, I'm never watching this show again because they used a cliffhanger!" I'm guessing less than none. No one watches Breaking Bad and says, "to hell with this show! Cliffhangers suck!" Instead, they say, "damn, I can't wait for next week!"
> 
> And the reason is because a serial isn't just a chopped-up novel. Each episode has a structure of its own. You need rising and falling action, an inciting incident and a climax. The cliffhanger comes after that. But you still need to use proper story construction before you get to that cliffhanger.


I know I am late with my response (gotta check that FB group) but in the comments and reviews on Amazon I see readers complaining of cliffhangers because of ...money. I don't mind cliffhangers too. Actually, without them, I'd feel something would be missing.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> Better to start with Chapter 1. Otherwise you could potentially confuse readers. Not everyone will binge on the episodes or even read them immediately when they come out. So when they get around to the second episode and they see it starts with Chapter 6, they may not remember that the first episode ended on Chapter 5.
> 
> Clarity is always better than confusion. In the bundles, the readers know they're getting a bundle and each episode in the collection should be preceded with an "Episode #" title page indicating that they're reading a new episode.
> 
> My initial plan was to launch the individual episodes in KU and then once the bundle was out, put the whole season on the other platforms. But I had pretty much zero movement, so I pulled it and went back into KU.


I'm thinking I'll do the same, until I get more books published Right now my name doesn't exactly ring a resounding bell :-D so I think it makes more sense to stay in KU. LiIke it or not, Amazon is where most people buy their books. At least in my genre

Re numbering of chapters -- MAGPIE MASQUERADE is a true serial, with cliffhangers. So I continue the chapter numbers from one installment to the next. I thought that would be *less* confusing -- the covers all say Part 1, 2, 3, etc. but when you open the ebook it defaults to page one of the story. So I figured, if each installment started with Chapter 1, the reader could easily start reading (e.g.) Part 4 by mistake and get confused b/c they'd think they were at the beginning and wonder why they were in the middle of an action sequence....Who the heck are these people?! etc. :-D

DMac


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

I'm going to be launching a new epic fantasy serial.  I am torn about posting the first 2-3 episodes on my blog, or making them wide/permafree.  (The only thing is, I'm concerned if I give too much away free, people would just read the free ones and never move onto buy the rest of the series.) 

After that, I am trying to decide whether to keep them all in KU or wide.  Maybe KU the first 3 months, and then wide.  

One thing for sure, I will be releasing a new episode every other friday.  I will probably launch the first of the year, after some of my other projects are finished.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

writerbee said:


> Re numbering of chapters -- MAGPIE MASQUERADE is a true serial, with cliffhangers. So I continue the chapter numbers from one installment to the next. I thought that would be *less* confusing -- the covers all say Part 1, 2, 3, etc. but when you open the ebook it defaults to page one of the story. So I figured, if each installment started with Chapter 1, the reader could easily start reading (e.g.) Part 4 by mistake and get confused b/c they'd think they were at the beginning and wonder why they were in the middle of an action sequence....Who the heck are these people?! etc. :-D


That situation is far less likely I think. If someone started reading a later episode by mistake, then that's their mistake and something they can't put on you. The vast majority of people would stop and double-check the title, see they clicked on the wrong episode, and go back to the first one.

But with the continuing chapter numbers, I'd bet you're far more likely to get people who open up and see Chapter 5 and then think there's something wrong with the ebook. Look at how many negative reviews serial writers get for writing a serial _even when it's clearly marked as a serial._ Now imagine those same people who open up, see Chapter 5, and then leave a review complaining about how the first four chapters were missing from the book.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Perry Constantine said:


> That situation is far less likely I think. If someone started reading a later episode by mistake, then that's their mistake and something they can't put on you. The vast majority of people would stop and double-check the title, see they clicked on the wrong episode, and go back to the first one.
> 
> But with the continuing chapter numbers, I'd bet you're far more likely to get people who open up and see Chapter 5 and then think there's something wrong with the ebook. Look at how many negative reviews serial writers get for writing a serial _even when it's clearly marked as a serial._ Now imagine those same people who open up, see Chapter 5, and then leave a review complaining about how the first four chapters were missing from the book.


LOL! so true....and when you say "If someone started reading a later episode by mistake, then that's their mistake and something they can't put on you" I think "oh yes they can" ;-p There are some people who blame the author for everything, even the price, EVEN WHEN they read it for FREE on KU! I also include a "for those of you just joining us..." little re-cap of a couple of paras at the start of each installment. But someone is always going to get confused, I guess, and they'll always blame the author :-D

Onward! 
DMac


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

xandy3 said:


> I'm going to be launching a new epic fantasy serial. I am torn about posting the first 2-3 episodes on my blog, or making them wide/permafree. (The only thing is, I'm concerned if I give too much away free, people would just read the free ones and never move onto buy the rest of the series.)
> 
> After that, I am trying to decide whether to keep them all in KU or wide. Maybe KU the first 3 months, and then wide.
> 
> One thing for sure, I will be releasing a new episode every other friday. I will probably launch the first of the year, after some of my other projects are finished.


I don't see the value in giving away something free to start with. Better to start with a price, and then when you offer it for free [as a sale, or permafree] readers feel like they're getting a bargain.

If you start with free, they'll expect you to continue with free.

Why not offer, e.g. Part 1 for 99 cents, then $1.99 or $2.99 (depending on length) for each subsequent part? Then you have room to play around with prices.

Maybe down the road a bit, after the first installments are published, reward loyal fans (and stimulate sales/reads) by offering part 4 as a freebie, for example.

I know authors who have had a lot of success growing their mailing list by including the link to their newsletter in their books, and offering "outtakes" and "behind the scenes" profiles on minor characters, etc. -- very short -- as freebies. It's a good idea, and I've been meaning to do that...;-p

I'd start with KU and benefit from the Amazon's massive domination of the market; use your 3 free days under KU somewhere after the 30 day drop-off for a new book [for Part 1; and you could do a 1 day free sale 3 times, or 3 days in a row, etc.]; and then when the 3 months is up, either continue in KU (if things are going well) or go wide.

DMac


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

So I might be second-guessing myself but I thought I'd throw this out there for comments. I had originally planned to release episode 1 of my new series with a simultaneous pre-order for episode 2 to be released a month later, but now I'm wondering, if they're both ready to go, why not publish them both immediately?

One reason I can think of to stick to the plan is it gives me time to get episodes 3 and 4 ready for regular monthly releases. Thoughts?


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> So I might be second-guessing myself but I thought I'd throw this out there for comments. I had originally planned to release episode 1 of my new series with a simultaneous pre-order for episode 2 to be released a month later, but now I'm wondering, if they're both ready to go, why not publish them both immediately?
> 
> One reason I can think of to stick to the plan is it gives me time to get episodes 3 and 4 ready for regular monthly releases. Thoughts?


Hi Jim,

I've been thinking over the exact same issue recently with my upcoming series. Most of the people here (if you look at the helpful sticky's at the top), recommend releasing the first two close together (same month), then the rest more staggered. For the same reason's you mention though, I have just decided to go for a staggered release which allows me to release at regular intervals so readers always know ehn the next one is coming.

I can't say if it's the right move, it's just what i'm doing!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> So I might be second-guessing myself but I thought I'd throw this out there for comments. I had originally planned to release episode 1 of my new series with a simultaneous pre-order for episode 2 to be released a month later, but now I'm wondering, if they're both ready to go, why not publish them both immediately?
> 
> One reason I can think of to stick to the plan is it gives me time to get episodes 3 and 4 ready for regular monthly releases. Thoughts?


I prefer the staggered release model because it allows me to be consistent with releases. Every two weeks, a new episode. Readers will know to expect it as opposed to dropping two at once, then waiting another month to get maybe one or possibly two additional episode. It also helps build momentum to the finale.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks, guys. I think consistency of releases is more important to me than GO GO NOW PUBLISH ALL THE THINGS, so I'll stick to the plan.


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## Ian Jaymes (Jan 22, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> So I might be second-guessing myself but I thought I'd throw this out there for comments. I had originally planned to release episode 1 of my new series with a simultaneous pre-order for episode 2 to be released a month later, but now I'm wondering, if they're both ready to go, why not publish them both immediately?
> 
> One reason I can think of to stick to the plan is it gives me time to get episodes 3 and 4 ready for regular monthly releases. Thoughts?


This is what I am doing- episode 2 out 2-3 weeks after episode 1, and so on...


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## xandy3 (Jun 13, 2010)

P.J. Post said:


> @xandy3, what writerbee said.





writerbee said:


> I don't see the value in giving away something free to start with. Better to start with a price, and then when you offer it for free [as a sale, or permafree] readers feel like they're getting a bargain.
> 
> If you start with free, they'll expect you to continue with free.
> 
> ...


Sound advice. I shall take it.  Thanks.


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

I just finished the first two episodes in my series working on episode three right now. When I have the first three edited and ready to go. I'm planning on releasing the first one then having a preorder up for each book in the series until all five have been released a week apart.

In the future I might wait until I have all five done but I think this will work better for now.

It's a really exciting time, one of my full-length books has started to do really well, and I think the serial might be some of my best work yet in a much more read genre (ROMANCE).

So I guess we will see. I'll come back and report after I start getting some results.

Also, I am thinking of doing one book each week for five weeks at .99 and then releasing all five in a set two weeks later at 2.99.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks for the list of places to submit a free book Boyd. I've just made the first in my serial free, so I'm trying to get some promotion going on it.


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## KitMaples (Feb 21, 2015)

I am working on an Arthurian fantasy serial (outlined for 150,000 words) with a female lead and have learned a lot from this thread.  But I'm having second thoughts.  I wonder if a series of short novels may be more marketable for 150,000 words than a serial.  All you Serialists, is my serial too short and should I be looking at producing a trilogy/series, instead?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

KitMaples said:


> I am working on an Arthurian fantasy serial (outlined for 150,000 words) with a female lead and have learned a lot from this thread. But I'm having second thoughts. I wonder if a series of short novels may be more marketable for 150,000 words than a serial. All you Serialists, is my serial too short and should I be looking at producing a trilogy/series, instead?


I guess it depends on how it breaks out. Do you have good breakpoints or cliffhangers in the 150k word outline that could support three installments, or five installments, maybe more? I imagine one writer could make it work as five 30k installments where another writer might go with three 50k installments, and another might go with one doorstop 150k standalone. Review your outline, pick the best option that fits, and then write forth. Good luck!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KitMaples said:


> I am working on an Arthurian fantasy serial (outlined for 150,000 words) with a female lead and have learned a lot from this thread. But I'm having second thoughts. I wonder if a series of short novels may be more marketable for 150,000 words than a serial. All you Serialists, is my serial too short and should I be looking at producing a trilogy/series, instead?


Serial length differs a lot depending on the writer. My serial is five 15K episodes per season, with a bonus episode for mailing list subscribers (later published in the collection). That means that each season is roughly about 90K words. Other people have 10K serial episodes, which would put a complete season at 50-60K.

Serial episodes can be anywhere from 10-30K. Personally, if each installment is 30K or over, I would just publish them as a novella series. I think the serial format is more of a benefit for shorter books. At novella length, you can treat them as regular book releases and you don't have the stigma that some readers still apply to serials.

For your 150K fantasy, ask yourself these questions:

First does it have to be done as a serial? Is there something intrinsic to the story structure that mandates serialization? For me, my serial is basically six short stories a season, with interconnected plot lines running through. Very similar to The Flash or Arrow.

Second, as Jim said, are there points in the story for episode breaks? Each episode needs its own structure and if you don't have that structure, readers will feel that you're cheating them. Make sure you aren't just chopping up a novel at every X amount of words.

Third, would this work better as a trilogy of three 50K books? A trilogy might be a better sell in fantasy than a serial, so it's something to consider.

And finally, is this 150K story you have outlined going to be the be-all, end-all for this series? Meaning are you planning on this just being the first installment and then doing another 150K season and another? If this 150K story is just the first part, then you might be better off going the novel route. Door-stoppers are really popular in fantasy.

If after considering all that you still want to do it as a serial, I would do it as six 25K episodes. But again, make sure the episode structure is there. Don't just say, "okay, here's the 25K mark, that's where I'll end an episode."


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## CM Raymond (Jun 28, 2015)

Hey ya'll,
Around page two I left KBoards to get some ass-in-the-seat writing time in. I pulled the initial season of my serial, worked on polish, and hired a cover artist.

I lack the wherewithal to read through 33 pages (minus two), so I ask thee this:

Has anyone hacked the release schedule well enough to maximize reader enjoyment and Amazon algorithms, or does release schedule for our little works not really matter?

I'm in a tough niche anyway (teen/YA), but this all started just by me writing stories for my daughter and to see if I could turn my academic fiction writing self into a storyteller. I'm already a success (at least according to the former).

I have two full seasons ready for release and the third and final is underway.

Thanks,
CM


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## EllaApollodorus (Sep 29, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Serial episodes can be anywhere from 10-30K. Personally, if each installment is 30K or over, I would just publish them as a novella series. I think the serial format is more of a benefit for shorter books. At novella length, you can treat them as regular book releases and you don't have the stigma that some readers still apply to serials.
> 
> ...ask yourself these questions:
> 
> First does it have to be done as a serial? Is there something intrinsic to the story structure that mandates serialization? For me, my serial is basically six short stories a season, with interconnected plot lines running through. Very similar to The Flash or Arrow.


My questions were going to run along these lines.

The first novel in my series started out at about 40k a couple of years ago. I now have four novellas that are around 20-25k and two novels around 50k that come after that first one. Unfortunately, while I was working on those, I was sending the first one to beta readers and freelance editors and posting it on critique sites, and everyone said it was too short and needed this, that, and the other. It's now 86k and better in some ways, but not in others. I'm revising one last time to fix some things, and that's it.

I realized at some point that they felt more like episodes than separate books, so I was glad to find the serial concept - but while I do have overall plot and character arcs for the series (I have several seasons planned), I'm not sure if it's truly a serial or if it's a series. Is it bad to have the occasional "special two hour episode" in a season? 

What exactly distinguishes a series from a serial? If I publish my novellas every two weeks but call it a series, is it different from a serial in name only?

I'm trying to get through this thread, but I started back to school this fall after 25 years, and wow. Homework. LOL.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

CM Raymond said:


> Hey ya'll,
> Around page two I left KBoards to get some ass-in-the-seat writing time in. I pulled the initial season of my serial, worked on polish, and hired a cover artist.
> 
> I lack the wherewithal to read through 33 pages (minus two), so I ask thee this:
> ...


The accepted wisdom for serial releases is a new episode every 1-2 weeks. But I think you'll find more people gravitating towards the bundles than the individual episodes, so the schedule isn't that important.



EllaApollodorus said:


> I realized at some point that they felt more like episodes than separate books, so I was glad to find the serial concept - but while I do have overall plot and character arcs for the series (I have several seasons planned), I'm not sure if it's truly a serial or if it's a series. Is it bad to have the occasional "special two hour episode" in a season?
> 
> What exactly distinguishes a series from a serial? If I publish my novellas every two weeks but call it a series, is it different from a serial in name only?


There's nothing wrong with having an occasional longer episode. My episodes are generally 15K, but the finale of season 1 ended up being 20K. No one complained about it being too long. Even TV shows have now stopped strictly limiting themselves to the 40-minute time allotment. If you look at some of the Netflix original series, the episodes can vary in length between 40-90 minutes depending on whether or not the story needs it.

Here's the simplest way to look at the distinction between a serial and a series: a serial is a TV show, a series is a movie series. James Bond is a series. Fast and Furious is a series. Mission: Impossible is a series. Each of those installments are very self-contained and although there are elements that carry across the films, for the most part each movie has a story of its own.

Orange is the New Black is a serial. Breaking Bad is a serial. How To Get Away With Murder is a serial. Each episode--although it has a beginning, middle, and an end structure to it--is part of a larger whole.


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## EllaApollodorus (Sep 29, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Here's the simplest way to look at the distinction between a serial and a series: a serial is a TV show, a series is a movie series.


Okay. It's definitely a serial. It's much more like a TV series than a movie series. Thanks.


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## BrentNichols (Mar 18, 2011)

> Has anyone hacked the release schedule well enough to maximize reader enjoyment and Amazon algorithms, or does release schedule for our little works not really matter?


My starting point was the Liliana Hart method. She released five novels in a series all on the same day, and a sixth book a month later. I decided to release every episode together.

For my Star Raider space opera serial, I released seven episodes and the omnibus over about eleven days. It was fantastically successful by my standards. I kept the omnibus cheap, to make it a no-brainer for people to buy it rather than individual episodes. The seven episodes provided visibility and funnelled people into the omnibus. When the omnibus was much, much higher in rankings than the episodes, somewhere around the 30-day cliff I think, I pulled the individual episodes. The omnibus paid me very well for a while.

My thought is that, if I don't have any readers to speak of starting out, there's no point in generating a tiny spike of interest every week or two, giving it time to die out, and then repeating. I want everyone who sees an episode to be able to go directly to the omnibus.

I tried to repeat the trick in October with a steampunk serial. I released all seven episodes and the omnibus in the same day and it utterly died. Two sales, enough page reads for one person to read through, and then nothing at all. I'm not sure why.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

KitMaples said:


> I am working on an Arthurian fantasy serial (outlined for 150,000 words) with a female lead and have learned a lot from this thread. But I'm having second thoughts. I wonder if a series of short novels may be more marketable for 150,000 words than a serial. All you Serialists, is my serial too short and should I be looking at producing a trilogy/series, instead?


I personally regret publishing my serial as a serial and not in a series as it seems too many people don't like or get what serials are about. Even if you explain it to them in the blurb. I have had some success with my serial, but not as much as I thought I would have. Going forward, I'll only be doing novels. I know some ppl have had extreme success with the serial format, but it seems more have failed. So my advice would be to do a trilogy instead of a serial with your fantasy.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

Can anyone tell me if I need to tweak the blurb/presentation for my serial? I've had some success with it, especially since I bundled the episodes into longer books. Each episode is between 26-27K, so the two-part bundles are around 53K. I've gotten quite a few bad reviews in which the reviewer specifically said that they hate serials and that they feel cheated. Yet others loved it and clearly got it, even emailed me to tell me. Yes, I have a beginning, middle and an end and that's why the episodes have names. Even so, people complain. I don't get it. I think my blurb CLEARLY explains that this is not a whodunnit, but a big story spanning many parts to get to the big CONCLUSION in part 12.

Can someone please take a look and tell me if I can tweak the blurb? Here it is: http://amzn.com/B00V47T5T0


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## damienboyes (Sep 12, 2015)

I plan on releasing my series soon but as I get closer to launch I'm fourth and fifth-guessing everything. It's a large story broken up into five distinct chapters of ~40K each. What are you all using for the descriptors for your individual books? I had thought I'd use 'Book 1,' 'Book 2,' etc. but now I'm thinking about 'Episode' or 'Act' or even 'Part.' 

Any thoughts on what makes the most sense?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

juliatheswede said:


> I personally regret publishing my serial as a serial and not in a series as it seems too many people don't like or get what serials are about. Even if you explain it to them in the blurb. I have had some success with my serial, but not as much as I thought I would have. Going forward, I'll only be doing novels. I know some ppl have had extreme success with the serial format, but it seems more have failed. So my advice would be to do a trilogy instead of a serial with your fantasy.


This is a good point. But along the failure point, you could also say the same about more people failing than succeeding with self-publishing in general.

From my perspective, I think if your episodes are 30K or over, then you may be better off publishing as a series instead of a serial. As has been said a few times in this thread, there is still a stigma against serials. If you're doing shorter episodes, taking advantage of the subtitle field (I have "A Superhero Serial" as my subtitle) and pricing appropriately, it seems easier to avoid those problems. Just putting it in the blurb may not be the best idea as people may only skim it, but the subtitle is harder to miss (especially as Amazon says a subtitle also has to be on the cover).

Of course, there's also the structure aspect to consider. If you've got a lot of cliffhangers and the story continues from one installment to the next, you might get readers criticizing you because of a more serialized structure.

On a subconscious level, I think people understand the difference between serial and series, even if they can't articulate it. When you use words like "serial" and "episode" in your descriptions, there's an understanding that it will be structured more like a TV show. But when you use words like "series" and "book" then that creates a different expectation.


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

I really feel like serials get the stigma because there were a ton of people putting out books at 5k length and maybe the 5k wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Especially during KU 1.0.

I think it's up to us to raise the bar again on what a serial can or could be. For mine, I decided that around 15k would be my goal. The first book ended up being about 20k, then 2-3 are at 15k. I'm expecting 4 to 15k and 5 to be more in the 20k range to end it. That being said I'm doing .99 an episode and then I'm going to do a box set of all five 2-3 weeks after the last one comes out at 2.99. If you think about it as one story 85k words for 2.99 isn't bad, and if you want to get them right away .99 isn't bad. Funny thing is I'll probably make more on the 2.99 then all five at .99.

I can't wait to see how it plays out. I should be putting the first book out next week. Let's see how a Cyberpunkish Romance serial does.


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## Jasone (Mar 28, 2015)

Has anyone released an entire season of episodes for free? I don't need to make any money(yet) but I'm looking to build up an audience, would this be a good strategy?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

NV Smith said:


> Has anyone released an entire season of episodes for free? I don't need to make any money(yet) but I'm looking to build up an audience, would this be a good strategy?


I've considered doing it when I have other seasons out but I don't recommend it when you've only got one season. If you want to build an audience, you might consider offering the first season for free to mailing list subscribers through a Facebook ad or something.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've considered doing it when I have other seasons out but I don't recommend it when you've only got one season. If you want to build an audience, you might consider offering the first season for free to mailing list subscribers through a Facebook ad or something.


Great idea, but like you said, I'd wait until I have more than one series or season out.


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## Jasone (Mar 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've considered doing it when I have other seasons out but I don't recommend it when you've only got one season. If you want to build an audience, you might consider offering the first season for free to mailing list subscribers through a Facebook ad or something.


Hmm. I only plan to make the first installment a season of episodes, and then release every book after that as full length novels. So there wont be any other seasons, although all the books are written in episode format.

I read from a bestseller that did an AMA on Reddit to serialize the first book and distribute it for free in installments, and then move onto publishing after gaining a readership. It was a bit confusing, but I took that as - serialize the first book and make all the episodes free, and then release the second book as a novel for a price.

I'm wondering about the viability of it. I heard of perma free for the first book in a series, would it be something like that? One free episode a month for ten months(or however you do your release schedule) until the season is over, and then release the second season as a paid novel?


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## KDKinney (Aug 16, 2015)

I have been initiated properly now. I get to join the club of achieving a lower review because of length. Rest of the review was positive though.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Jasone said:


> Hmm. I only plan to make the first installment a season of episodes, and then release every book after that as full length novels. So there wont be any other seasons, although all the books are written in episode format.
> 
> I read from a bestseller that did an AMA on Reddit to serialize the first book and distribute it for free in installments, and then move onto publishing after gaining a readership. It was a bit confusing, but I took that as - serialize the first book and make all the episodes free, and then release the second book as a novel for a price.
> 
> I'm wondering about the viability of it. I heard of perma free for the first book in a series, would it be something like that? One free episode a month for ten months(or however you do your release schedule) until the season is over, and then release the second season as a paid novel?


Okay, that's pretty different from what most of us are doing when we talk about serials. What you're doing isn't really a serial, but instead you're splitting up a permafree book. First off, I wouldn't call it a serial or publish it on Amazon, because what you're doing is exactly what readers say they hate about a serial: splitting up a book into several smaller books. Even if it's free (and there's no guarantee that you can make it free across all regions--I'm in Japan and even when I browse the Amazon US store, I can't see like 90% of the permafree books), you could still attract negative reviewers.

Instead, post up the chapters on a place like Wattpad and have the entire book available as a permafree. When I made the first books in my series free, I did this, releasing a chapter a week on Wattpad. But I didn't make those first books free until I had at least three books in the series.

Also note that if you go this route, you can't use Kindle Unlimited because KDP Select says the book can't be digitally published anywhere else.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Jasone said:


> Hmm. I only plan to make the first installment a season of episodes, and then release every book after that as full length novels. So there wont be any other seasons, although all the books are written in episode format.
> 
> I read from a bestseller that did an AMA on Reddit to serialize the first book and distribute it for free in installments, and then move onto publishing after gaining a readership. It was a bit confusing, but I took that as - serialize the first book and make all the episodes free, and then release the second book as a novel for a price.
> 
> I'm wondering about the viability of it. I heard of perma free for the first book in a series, would it be something like that? One free episode a month for ten months(or however you do your release schedule) until the season is over, and then release the second season as a paid novel?


I agree with Perry Constantine - I wouldn't publish your first book [season of episodes] for free. 
Free/permafree seems to work best for authors who already have more books (parts, episodes, whatever) already published, and THEN they set book (part)1 to free, and that funnels readers into the other books.

Personally, I wouldn't give away an entire "season" for free. Then you're just setting expectations among readers that all your work will be free. (Ridiculous, I know, but there are a surprising number of people who expect something for nothing ;-p)

One reason I released my book as a serial was because it is very long for its genre -- at least twice as long as most Regencies. And it is episodic in nature -- probably b/c, from a lifetime of watching TV, I tend to think of stories as TV series :-D 
And as a new author (under my pen name, in the genre) I needed visibility.

Releasing several things over the course of several months gains more visibility on KU than just one big thing that comes out and sinks like a stone.

Why not release each episode in your serial/season 1 at set intervals (e.g. 1-2 weeks apart), with episode 1 at a low price (e.g. 99 cents) and then make the follow-up episodes the same or a little higher (e.g. 1.99). With each new release the Amazon algos will give you a little boost, so you keep your visibility percolating.

And once your episodes are all out, you can use your 3 free days, separately or together, on episode 1 -- set it to free to attract a bunch of new readers and then you have something to funnel them to (episodes 2 - 6, or whatever it is)

And THEN you can bundle all the episodes into an omnibus of the entire season, with a price that's less than the individual episodes purchased separately. That's another "new release" and more percolating.

You have so many more options to attract readers and gain visibility if you release your serial with a price instead of just giving all away for free.

IMHO.
YMMV 
:-D

DMac


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

writerbee said:


> Personally, I wouldn't give away an entire "season" for free. Then you're just setting expectations among readers that all your work will be free. (Ridiculous, I know, but there are a surprising number of people who expect something for nothing ;-p)
> 
> IMHO.
> YMMV
> ...


yes, I found that too! When I released my serial/series bundle (Episodes 1 and 2) I had for 3 free days (out of Select, price-matching) 89 free downloads and all those folks went to free books too and no one (I assume) bought the 3rd episodes which at the time was only 0.99 cents. I had one sale but because of converting the price, they refunded it. I think free isn't anymore effective unless you have a BookBub free promo and a few more in the series but in gerenral freebie seekers don't covert to paid customers.
Speaking of wich reminds me, do you put in your book descriptions warning or informaton that your series/serials contain cliffhangers? I spotted one shuch an example in KU: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W82PE3Q/ref=series_dp_rw_ca_1
I had seen one more book description warning about cliffhangers but the author removed the cliffhanger mention.


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## Ian Jaymes (Jan 22, 2015)

All,

How do you handle front/back matter of already-published episodes when a new release is out? I've got episode 2 ready to go, and am wondering do I wait to get the link in Amazon before updating episode 1? Do you update each after each new release? Seems like a lot of work, and updates won't go to those who already bought, but the alternative is you miss an opportunity to crosslink everything...


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

I wait until the next release is out, then go back in and update with a link.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Antara Mann said:


> Speaking of wich reminds me, do you put in your book descriptions warning or informaton that your series/serials contain cliffhangers? I spotted one shuch an example in KU: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W82PE3Q/ref=series_dp_rw_ca_1
> I had seen one more book description warning about cliffhangers but the author removed the cliffhanger mention.


I don't give a cliffhanger warning. I think it's a bit silly, TBH. As long as you clearly label it as a serial, then people should understand that cliffhangers tend to come with that. Anyone who gives you a negative review because a serial has a cliffhanger will just become one of those reviews that other readers roll their eyes at.



Ian Jaymes said:


> All,
> 
> How do you handle front/back matter of already-published episodes when a new release is out? I've got episode 2 ready to go, and am wondering do I wait to get the link in Amazon before updating episode 1? Do you update each after each new release? Seems like a lot of work, and updates won't go to those who already bought, but the alternative is you miss an opportunity to crosslink everything...


I set up pre-orders for all the episodes in a season ahead of time. That way, when I release Episode 1, I can have a link to the Episode 2 pre-order in the back-matter (which will then be the link for buying Episode 2 once it's released) so I don't have to go back and change it. The only change I do to the back-matter is when the season collection is released, I include a notice in the back-matter of the first episode that they can get the complete season collection instead of buying the individual episodes.

For the last episode in a season, I tell them that if they sign up for my mailing list, they can be the first to know when the next season comes out. Then once that season starts coming out, I update that back-matter.

So basically, I only ever have to update the back-matter for the season premiere and finale.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> I don't give a cliffhanger warning. I think it's a bit silly, TBH. As long as you clearly label it as a serial, then people should understand that cliffhangers tend to come with that. Anyone who gives you a negative review because a serial has a cliffhanger will just become one of those reviews that other readers roll their eyes at.


I am not sure readers know the difference between a series and a serial. Some might know but most don't. I labeled mine as a series cause each episode can be read as a stand-alone. I am just getting frightened as to how much readers hate cliffhangers - thy see it as a way to pay more for the next book(s). Even if it's a complete story and the so-called cliffhanger is showing what comes next they want their money back(?) 99 cents? I just read some comments in the reviews of C. Gockel and they got me worried.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Antara Mann said:


> I am not sure readers know the difference between a series and a serial. Some might know but most don't. I labeled mine as a series cause each episode can be read as a stand-alone. I am just getting frightened as to how much readers hate cliffhangers - thy see it as a way to pay more for the next book(s). Even if it's a complete story and the so-called cliffhanger is showing what comes next they want their money back(?) 99 cents? I just read some comments in the reviews of C. Gockel and they got me worried.


I think you're underestimating the intelligence of readers. I've got cliffhangers in my serial, I label it as a serial, and I've never gotten a single negative review about the serial nature. If people aren't going to complain about the length or the cliffhangers, they're going to find something else to complain about. You could put a hundred warnings about cliffhangers on your serial and you'll still get people who complain about the cliffhanger. If you try to put warnings for every single thing a reader might have a problem with in a story, then where does it end? "WARNING: Plot twist inside." "WARNING: Your favorite character may die."


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> I think you're underestimating the intelligence of readers. I've got cliffhangers in my serial, I label it as a serial, and I've never gotten a single negative review about the serial nature. If people aren't going to complain about the length or the cliffhangers, they're going to find something else to complain about. You could put a hundred warnings about cliffhangers on your serial and you'll still get people who complain about the cliffhanger. If you try to put warnings for every single thing a reader might have a problem with in a story, then where does it end? "WARNING: Plot twist inside." "WARNING: Your favorite character may die."


Yes. One of my favorite reviews says something like "I HATE cliffhangers! (insert stuff about the book) I can't wait for the next one."


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## Violet Haze (Jan 9, 2014)

No matter what you do, readers who want their money back will simply request a refund if it's through Amazon. I've watched returns of part two through four (part one is free) one by one many times over the two years. Some people simply won't want to pay even if it's quite clear what they are buying. I used to warn about cliffhangers, but in the end, I just stopped saying anything other than "This is part # of four in a serial." and to read part # first if it's the 2nd or more. That's about all you can do I think, lol.



Antara Mann said:


> I am not sure readers know the difference between a series and a serial. Some might know but most don't. I labeled mine as a series cause each episode can be read as a stand-alone. I am just getting frightened as to how much readers hate cliffhangers - thy see it as a way to pay more for the next book(s). Even if it's a complete story and the so-called cliffhanger is showing what comes next they want their money back(?) 99 cents? I just read some comments in the reviews of C. Gockel and they got me worried.


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## Veronica Sicoe (Jun 21, 2015)

What an _awesome _thread! Thank you guys for sharing your experience with writing/publishing serials!

I'm going to keep a keen eye on this, as I'm tempted to give it a try, but can't decide yet if it's going to be a series or serial...  Very thankful for all your posts here on this topic!


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> I think you're underestimating the intelligence of readers. I've got cliffhangers in my serial, I label it as a serial, and I've never gotten a single negative review about the serial nature. If people aren't going to complain about the length or the cliffhangers, they're going to find something else to complain about. You could put a hundred warnings about cliffhangers on your serial and you'll still get people who complain about the cliffhanger. If you try to put warnings for every single thing a reader might have a problem with in a story, then where does it end? "WARNING: Plot twist inside." "WARNING: Your favorite character may die."


Lol! That last warning was funny! Now, I don't wanted to sound like I underestimate them, God forbid me! It' just that I read quite a lot reviews and even I didn't' know the difference until I stumbled upon this thread.
Yeah, some people won't pay even a cent for a book.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

I've found I don't have to warn readers about anything because the reviewers will do it for me. 'By the way, there's a cliffhanger...And this is written in present tense...and this is a serial...and there's gay guys in it...and there's sex...and violence...'  And so on. Lots of readers check the reviews before the blurb anyways, so that's the best place for those things to be mentioned. Also, I put word count at the end of my blurb and it hasn't done me any good, a lot of people buy without reading the description. So let the reviewers write the warnings. They're the ones people listen to.


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## kingofeli (Nov 24, 2015)

Are we allowed to post here if we're planning on becoming a serial writer, but technically aren't published yet?


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

kingofeli said:


> Are we allowed to post here if we're planning on becoming a serial writer, but technically aren't published yet?


Of course!!! This is a discussion about serials. Having one isn't a requirement. Welcome!


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## James1273 (Oct 12, 2013)

Just finished the third book in my Shadow Tales series. Working on self-publishing paperbacks of all three and outlining the next three as kind of a series within the series.


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## kingofeli (Nov 24, 2015)

I think I have a strategy for what I'm going to do. I've nearly finished the first book for my series, and immediately after I'm going to start on the second book. I'm going to release the first book, which has an awesome cliffhanger to get people interested. Then, I'm going to finish the second book within the week and prepare it for publishing. No later than three months after that, I'll be publishing the second. My question is;
Should I make the first book free to get people interested in the second? Should I price the first at .99 and the second at a more common price, like say 2.99? I'd like some advice.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

kingofeli said:


> I think I have a strategy for what I'm going to do. I've nearly finished the first book for my series, and immediately after I'm going to start on the second book. I'm going to release the first book, which has an awesome cliffhanger to get people interested. Then, I'm going to finish the second book within the week and prepare it for publishing. No later than three months after that, I'll be publishing the second. My question is;
> Should I make the first book free to get people interested in the second? Should I price the first at .99 and the second at a more common price, like say 2.99? I'd like some advice.


I'd recommend putting them all in KU to start and doing a countdown promo on several episodes in early January. Then after the 90 days, start rolling the books out wide with the first one going permafree.

When a book first goes free, it gets a lot of downloads from promo sites and bots scanning the freebies for new titles. You get a great boost for about a week. You can use that boost to help it stick in the rankings. The higher you go, the longer it takes to fall. And if you have more finished episodes for people to purchase at the same time as the freebie, you're going to see a lot more profit. Especially since Amazon has implemented the new series bundle feature, which lets people buy the entire thing at once.

By the way, how long are your episodes? Stuff below 20k is a hard sell no matter the strategy.

On the matter of price, check out the bestsellers of short fiction in your genre. Look at their prices and decide what to do.


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## kingofeli (Nov 24, 2015)

Erratic said:


> I'd recommend putting them all in KU to start and doing a countdown promo on several episodes in early January. Then after the 90 days, start rolling the books out wide with the first one going permafree.
> 
> When a book first goes free, it gets a lot of downloads from promo sites and bots scanning the freebies for new titles. You get a great boost for about a week. You can use that boost to help it stick in the rankings. The higher you go, the longer it takes to fall. And if you have more finished episodes for people to purchase at the same time as the freebie, you're going to see a lot more profit. Especially since Amazon has implemented the new series bundle feature, which lets people buy the entire thing at once.
> 
> ...


I just started the second one, but the first one comes out to a total of 40,000 words. Thank you for all of the advice!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Bbates024 (Nov 3, 2014)

I was going to say 40k is a nice novella length almost boarding on a full book. I like to think of full books in that 50-80k ranges and then door stoppers (novels) at over 90k.

My serials range between 13.5k and 24k only going as high as 24 because well sometimes it happens. My goal is to be around 15k per.

40k is also in the tricky space where if you have a brand already you can probably do 2.99 if you don't your probably stuck at .99 which limits sales and advertising options. Basically on a .99 all you can do is go free.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

P.J. Post said:


> Just an FYI for planning purposes: According to The Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America and its Nebula award categories, 40k is a novel.
> 
> Reference novels:
> 
> ...


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## Josh St. John (Feb 3, 2012)

Happy to find this post. I can't remember if I've posted in here before, but either way, hello! 

I started publishing my Acorn 666 serials in March and April of this year. Then my day job offered me a track to management that required 60 hour work weeks from late April until a week ago. After sacrificing my life outside of work, and with broken promises of promotion, I've given up. I work in a work-at-home call center, so I'm back on the phones as a senior advisor which gives me exactly 40 hours a week and allows me to get back to working on my serial.

I know why they're not selling. It looks like I gave up on the project. My current plan is to get the 4th episode out around the start of 2016 to get the ball rolling again, and try to release a new episode every 2 months.

Anyways, I wanted to introduce myself (again maybe?). I hope everyone is enjoying the weekend.


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## Claire Donovan (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi all, joining the discussion.

I launched my four part serial, Pimp: a Stepbrother Romance, (First serial within the Xciting Arrangements series) on Nov 19. The four novellas are about 24K each for a total of 95K. I had them all completed before I published the first one, and they all went live by Nov 25th.

The story is a cliffhanger romance, and so far the read-through of the four parts has been very good. I have exclusively promoted the first book at .99 for the first month, but will probably raise the price to $2.99 after a month. This is because I've never seen or heard that there is much noticeable difference in buying decisions for $2.99 vs. $0.99, except for the promotional traffic buyers. The reason I run at 99 for the first book is to promote through the discount vendor websites and newsletters. The next three are all $2.99 and will remain so.

After the first thirty days, I'll run one of my KDP Select promos during the next sixty days, then drop out of KDP and go wide with the first book becoming a permafree. We'll see how that goes. If KNP remains good, the last three parts may remain in Kindle Select for the KU benefits, which work out to about 85 cents per book. Not too bad.

In late December, I will rework the serials into a standalone novel to take the place of a boxed set. I may do a boxed set as well, but my main focus will be combining the four parts into a single standalone, as I think that may do very well. I'll keep the thread posted.  

Claire


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Readers aren't finding my bundles! Help!

My serial is complete at 18 episodes of 10k words each. Every 6 episodes are bundled into a novel of 60k words. 

The Zon gave the serial one of those cool series pages where folks can buy the first 11 episodes for 10.98! But ggggrrr! 
1) The cliffhanger is on episode 12.
2) Readers would save money if they bought the first two bundles at 2.99 each instead.

I asked Amazon what to do and they said to just not have bundles…  But readers are complaining about having to pay so much… I am tempted to unpublish all 18 episodes and push the bundles. I don't because the episodes sell better and I don't want to lose all those also-boughts.

If I had it to do over, I would make each set of 6 episodes its own serial and start over with a new serial at episodes 7 and 13, even though it continues the same story. 

I love the series page, but only for series, not for serials where we prefer readers to buy the bundles.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

_Old Yeller & the Chocolate Factory_

tragic story very short story


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## writer-artist-mom (Feb 21, 2015)

All this talk about tv episodes versus a full movie got me looking up stuff about screenwriting. I found this very helpful:

https://myothercareer.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/the-difference-between-writing-for-film-and-for-tv/

Even though we don't have commercial breaks in literature, we should still have a structure that's easily definable like in Libby's book Take Off Your Pants. There still would need to be inciting incidents, midpoints and climaxes within each episode, even for cliffhanger ones.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> If I had it to do over, I would make each set of 6 episodes its own serial and start over with a new serial at episodes 7 and 13, even though it continues the same story.


I think this is a good idea, Cherise. It makes for a good "season", gives you a logical place to bundle, and lets the readers know there is some sort of ending point, with more to come.

But, not a new serial, but a new season, just like a TV show. Have a major cliffhanger to bring the reader to the next season, and carry on with the overall story.


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## Veronica Sicoe (Jun 21, 2015)

Eliza Marie Jones said:


> All this talk about tv episodes versus a full movie got me looking up stuff about screenwriting. I found this very helpful:
> 
> https://myothercareer.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/the-difference-between-writing-for-film-and-for-tv/
> 
> Even though we don't have commercial breaks in literature, we should still have a structure that's easily definable like in Libby's book Take Off Your Pants. There still would need to be inciting incidents, midpoints and climaxes within each episode, even for cliffhanger ones.


That's an AWESOME article. Thanks a lot for sharing, Eliza!


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

I haven't posted here in a while, mostly because I got caught up in an unbelievable mess trying to edit the second book of my serial. I had to delay for months to get it cleaned up, and the whole process finally convinced me to permanently embrace my natural tendency to edit as I go instead of vomiting out huge portions of my first draft.

So far, I've been editing as I go on book 3, and even though the initial drafting is slower, my overall productivity has more than doubled. Book 3 should be done in a week or so, and I expect book 4 to be painless compared to the horrible tangles I ran into trying to whip book 2 into shape. It got so bad I could hardly make myself sit down at the keyboard. And actually, when I completed the first draft I thought everything was going okay. It wasn't until I dug in and started editing that I was able to see these huge flaws that I couldn't fix without doing major surgery on my plot, and throwing away several scenes. I almost had to start over from scratch.

Right now, I'm using Dean Wesley Smith's cycling approach, which was already my natural way of crafting scenes in the first place. I got in the habit of forcing myself vomit-draft because it helped me finish things faster, but it turns out it was actually taking me longer overall. Trying to work with a deadline for the first time as a writer really brought the whole issue home for me.

Fixing as I go makes me feel more comfortable writing, and being able to spend more time with each scene allows me to gradually let my story evolve as I work, which actually helps stimulate my creativity. If I were an outliner, I think the vomit draft approach might've worked better, because I would've been able to keep my plot on track, but under the circumstances, it is better for me to write at a pace that matches the way I tell stories.

And also, on a totally different subject, I'm thinking about rebranding with the *"Season 1 Episode X"* thing myself. I expect I'll be going back to these characters again in the future, and using the *season *label seems like a really natural way to let readers know the next series is a continuation of the previous story.

edit: Actually managed to finish book 3 the next day after posting this and had it ready to publish in no time flat... Huge improvement in my productivity. So much so that I'm getting ready to launch another serial that I plan to work on at the same time.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Seeking some thoughts from fellow serial writers--I'm planning to re-cover my series next year and I'm not sure if I should do a different cover for each installment (different images, colors, etc) or just a different cover for the first episode, or a different cover for the first cover and the omnibus containing the first 9 episodes (essentially a first 'season'). I like the cost idea of getting one new cover for either the omnibus or the first episode vs the costs involved in 9 covers, but thought I'd poke about and ask how others with long series/serials have handled covers.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Eliza Marie Jones said:


> All this talk about tv episodes versus a full movie got me looking up stuff about screenwriting. I found this very helpful:
> 
> https://myothercareer.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/the-difference-between-writing-for-film-and-for-tv/
> 
> Even though we don't have commercial breaks in literature, we should still have a structure that's easily definable like in Libby's book Take Off Your Pants. There still would need to be inciting incidents, midpoints and climaxes within each episode, even for cliffhanger ones.


Great article, thanks for sharing. Reminds me of a lot of stuff I've read over the years about building a series. I like how this article talks about how it can take several episodes to build subplots and A, B, C stories, etc.

On a related note, folks curious about building a series from scratch should check out The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Really good insights as to building a series and a cast of characters and so forth. I bet the trade paperback can be had dirt-cheap.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> Seeking some thoughts from fellow serial writers--I'm planning to re-cover my series next year and I'm not sure if I should do a different cover for each installment (different images, colors, etc) or just a different cover for the first episode, or a different cover for the first cover and the omnibus containing the first 9 episodes (essentially a first 'season'). I like the cost idea of getting one new cover for either the omnibus or the first episode vs the costs involved in 9 covers, but thought I'd poke about and ask how others with long series/serials have handled covers.


I recommend getting different images. I sell at least three times as many books for my wolf series than I do my vampire series. (Which uses the same cover with only the title changed.) That's why I'm going to update the vamp covers when I release book 4. To make the covers easy, you can have a template that stays the same and only the image changes. I'd recommend keeping the series' colors the same though (title and such), because when you have more books on your author page and things get mixed up, the colors can be a visual cue for your customers.

Here's a great example: http://www.amazon.com/Roy-Huff/e/B00BCX199A


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## KDKinney (Aug 16, 2015)

I just released the 4th part that completed the First Season of my serial on Dec 8th. I'm still getting downloads right now but I'm thinking about tossing out the whole set with the 3D graphic and all to hopefully increase my sales in general.  

How long do you usually wait to put out a boxed set? When it's done or do you wait a bit?


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

KDKinney said:


> I just released the 4th part that completed the First Season of my serial on Dec 8th. I'm still getting downloads right now but I'm thinking about tossing out the whole set with the 3D graphic and all to hopefully increase my sales in general.
> 
> How long do you usually wait to put out a boxed set? When it's done or do you wait a bit?


You'll find that releasing the box set all by itself is much like releasing a standalone novel. Sales will be great at first, but only at first. You should use the collection as a promotional tool to bring back old readers and catch new ones. Releasing the box set on the same day as Exciting Book One of your new series will help both books get some algo love from the mighty 'Zon and create that impulse-buy-buzz to drive you up the charts. Of course, a preview of the new series should go in the back of the collection, and you should let your mailing list know they can pick up both releases--today!

See, that's important. Even if a reader loved your series, they can get distracted and forget to check up on what new things you might be writing. They can even forget your name. But if they pick up the collection they already love _and_ start the next series from you right away, you'll be sticking in their brains and on their kindles.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm fairly new to the serial thing. Just started one. Mine are very short. Its a Slender Man serial written in the form of a "found footage" story with each episode being police reports, transcripts or journal entries so only around 1500 words for each episode. I put the first one up the other day for .99 and on KU.

One reader asked if it will be like a Kindle Serial where readers automatically get each new episode when its posted. Anyone know how that works or how to do that? I can't find anyway on the dashboard to list it as such.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

Kindle Serials is an invite-only program. Unfortunately, you won't be able to have readers get the new episodes automatically, and that's why it's very important to have a mailing list. You can also help retain readers by having pre-orders of the next episode available when the current episode goes live, and a link to that pre-order in the back matter. People can click, buy, and the episode downloads itself on launch day. Not as convenient as the exclusive serial program, but it's pretty close. Readers can also subscribe to you on Amazon, so when you get an email saying, 'Would you like to share your new release?', share it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Oh how I wish Amazon would just open Kindle Serials to everyone. They're doing jack with such an awesome idea.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

> Oh how I wish Amazon would just open Kindle Serials to everyone. They're doing jack with such an awesome idea.


I know, right? It's not even a new program anymore. They should let indies apply.


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## Charles Des Voeux (Oct 26, 2015)

Hi everyone. I am cross posting this from a thread I started because I was told this thread would be a great source for answers.

I wanted to ask: has anyone tried to release novellas (say about 10-15K words) per week in the manner of a tv show? I don't mean chopping up a book in to 7 or 8 parts haphazardly. Instead, you write it as episodes beforehand and release it weekly as such.

I was thinking that if you kept the first one free as a hook, and priced the rest at 0.99, you may not receive as much as two or three 2.99 books, but it would make for a novel (pun intended) experience for the reader. I think it could be particularly cool for fans of mysteries and thrillers, or even horror (i.e. The Walking Dead). I think sci-fi and fantasy fans prefer their stuff a lot longer, with the exception of the post-apocalyptic readers. I could be wrong, however. 

Would love to hear any words of wisdom from you all. Thank you.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

You need to start reading on page 1. The short answer is YES. Many, many romance writers are doing exactly this. Some have success, some don't. You should take genre into consideration before trying any strategy. Pricing and length will have different expectations with different readers.


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## Charles Des Voeux (Oct 26, 2015)

Well how about that. Thank you Erratic, I should have started there to begin with. Apologies for that. Will comb through the thread now. Would be interesting to see how the non-romancers have tackled this.


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

Heh, no problem. Here's a post you may find useful. Someone writing the same genres (except horror). You'll find tons of useful info if you comb through the entire thread. Though I know it's a pain in the butt, the patient are rewarded with knowledge! Also, you can learn a ton by clicking on people's signatures and spying on their serials to see how their strategies worked for them.



Boyd said:


> 1. What genre is your serial in?
> Dystopian, post apoc prepper/homesteader type fiction
> 2. How long is each episode?
> 20-30k
> ...


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Hi, just joining this thread. Didn't read all the back posts but I've been working on a serial also. It's middle grade so not on most people's radar, but it's been tons of fun. Season 1 is completely out and I'm almost done writing Season 2, hopefully to launch in the spring!


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

I love your cover for that middle grade serial. Good luck with launching season 2! Let us know how it goes.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Erratic said:


> I love your cover for that middle grade serial. Good luck with launching season 2! Let us know how it goes.


thank you! The cover is nearly done for Season 2. I will let you know how it goes!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Charles Des Voeux said:


> Hi everyone. I am cross posting this from a thread I started because I was told this thread would be a great source for answers.
> 
> I wanted to ask: has anyone tried to release novellas (say about 10-15K words) per week in the manner of a tv show? I don't mean chopping up a book in to 7 or 8 parts haphazardly. Instead, you write it as episodes beforehand and release it weekly as such.
> 
> ...


As Erratic said, you'll find a lot of information in this thread. You could also put it in KU to get the borrows. My strategy is to release 15K episodes two weeks apart at $0.99 and at the conclusion of the season, I up the prices of the individual episodes to $1.99 (but keep the very first episode at $0.99). Then I release the season compilation and price it at $4.99. With higher prices for the individual episodes, the compilation looks like more of a value for the reader (unless the reader bought the individual episodes early because then the price is about the same) and I get the higher royalty rate.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> As Erratic said, you'll find a lot of information in this thread. You could also put it in KU to get the borrows. My strategy is to release 15K episodes two weeks apart at $0.99 and at the conclusion of the season, I up the prices of the individual episodes to $1.99 (but keep the very first episode at $0.99). Then I release the season compilation and price it at $4.99. With higher prices for the individual episodes, the compilation looks like more of a value for the reader (unless the reader bought the individual episodes early because then the price is about the same) and I get the higher royalty rate.


This is a fantastic idea. I think when I get closer to releasing season 2, I'll raise the prices to season 1 and see how it goes. I also plan to release a compilation.


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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, isn't this a thread I should have found before now... 

I'm currently guilty of a Sci-Fi Romance serial that has a complete Season One. I released "Huntress of the Star Empire" as a serial almost by accident. Several years back, I had this big, sprawling manuscript that seemed to ramble from one end of a star system to another, with a Five-Man Band and decade-old flashbacks and an origin story and a whole wiki's worth of mildly-interesting sidebar information on planets, side-quests, and walk-on characters begging for spin-offs of their own. I also had ZERO market for it. Nobody was buying sci-fi romance outside of erotica, and I couldn't put enough of an erotic premise in it to satisfy the demands of the erotic romance reading market, so I did the sensible thing and put it away before it hurt somebody.

Fast-forward past the dawn and expansion of the "indie revolution" or whatever is the latest hip term for it, and I pulled out the manuscript again, re-read it, and found that the story wasn't exactly a movie in my head--but rather a TV series. I'd been studying long and short-form storytelling in TV series for a while and the overarching plot felt like a seasonal throughline, while the chunks of chapters (I called them "movements" like in musical scores) each had enough of a structure to hold their own as interconnected novellas. I even had eleven good breaks in the story, giving me twelve episodes--just about the same as a summer filler series the cable networks are fond of running when the networks go on vacation.

I talked to some folks on the #TuesdaySerial hashtag and having a weekly release schedule seemed to make the most sense, given my writing schedule, and things like KDP Select runs. I worked with my cover artist and we built strong branding elements around titles, subtitles, and my name. I was fortunate to find a lovely lady in stockphotoland who had just the right look and a multitude of poses. The story worked itself out so that there are four major settings, and stockphotoland came through for me again with some good fantasy sci-fi landscapes. I had her design four covers--one for each three episodes--and we used color filters. Thankfully, I ran out of series at the same time we ran out of rainbow.  You can see the individual episodes here on the series page at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Huntress-Star-Empire-12-Book/dp/B016QAEPHQ/ (You have to click "show all" at the bottom to get all twelve covers of the rainbow). The box set covers are the same as the episode covers, with a 3-color filter and some box elements to them--you can see 'em in my sig-line

The original plan was to release each episode at 99 cents and enroll it in KDP select for a single run. The weekly release schedule meant people could get hooked on the series, and get a new one every Thursday (I ensured this by putting them up as pre-orders a week ahead. Not to solicit pre-orders or to goose my way onto a list, just to be sure that they went live on the day they were supposed to).

My mid-range plan was to roll the episodes out of KDP Select and put the first episode up for free everywhere (it is, for now). But instead of releasing the episodes to the other vendors, I was only going to release the box sets at the other vendors. KDP Select favored/rewarded novella-length stuff, but the other vendors seem to like full-length titles better, and I felt that I could get more cachet with an introductory 2.99 and 3 more 3.99 box set titles to round out the set at places like Kobo and Apple. I also released the box sets at Amazon, but not into KDP Select.

My long-term plan was to keep the first episode perma-free and use it as a loss-leader funnel to the rest of the series, and make the first box set the target of paid promo efforts, because its length could get me into venues where the brevity of the episode wouldn't.

Here is where it got fun: In the middle of my run, Amazon flipped KDP Select toes over teakettle. With page-reads becoming the norm, all of a sudden, it became attractive to novel-length works, and readers were picking entire novels to read for free rather than shorter works. I don't blame Amazon for changing things up--it's the nature of the business, and it wouldn't be the first time it's happened to me.

Around that same time, Amazon stopped listing a series link at the top of the book listing page, and started rearranging the pages so that only the first two lines of the book description show up at the top. They've since gotten around to building a series page for the episodes after I begged them. Currently, though, the box sets are not in the series page, and do not seem to be generating a series page of their own. I have no way to list a "0.5" for the first free episode alongside the box sets at Amazon (bless Kobo and ARe for being able to do it, though).

I'm still not setting the world on fire, and I attribute some of that to the choices I've made--sci-fi romance is a category shunned by the big players, but embraced by the epublishers, and comes up hard against the spicier stuff indies are putting out. My stuff is hot, but not undies-on-fire hot, and I communicated that by choosing not to put a guy on the cover (partly because, god love 'em, the men of stockphotoland have great abs, but seem to have expressions that emote a range from "I just huffed All The Nitrous in the dentist's office" to "I really have to poop"). I haven't even tried for a Bookbub ad--I'm not entirely sure where they'd stick me, and I don't have the reviews yet.

Mistakes I've made: 
-I made a tactical mis-calculation in my KDP Select plan. By rolling my episodes out of KDP after only one 90-day run, I was rolling out episode 1 a scant week after episode 12 went live. Anyone who was interested in the series via borrow had to get on it quick. 
-I actually missed enrolling one of the episodes into KDP Select, and it remains to this day in the bottom of my sales barrel. I did offer it for free for a time to anyone who contacted me and let me know they'd been borrowing, but no one took me up on the offer, and I did see a few sales of the episode, so I guess folks thought the buck wouldn't break their bank...or they just skipped it.
-I neglected to actually "Launch" the series. My idea of a launch is a facebook post that says, "So this happened" and a link to the book on Amazon. I'm working on getting over that for 2016. But once I started with Episode 1, my schedule was tight enough that I didn't have too much time to really promote each episode before announcing the next one's pre-order.
-12 Episodes might be a bit too much for my sub-genre. It makes sense for TV and sense for structure in math terms, but maybe not so much for reading. I expected there to be some drop-off as people either lost interest or lost track, but I wonder how many people shied away from a 12-episode commitment once they saw the complete season and decided 12 was too much--even if the episodes are an hour to 90 minutes' worth of reading, the perception is there.
-I didn't have any money for advertising. I wish now I would have capitalized on some of the grace period new releases get with the smaller, other-than-bookbub advertisers and tried more advertising. I was very careful with my money, and knew I had to pay for whatever I spent with each individual ad buy. My inexperience kept me on the conservative side of risky, and I might have missed a few chances.

I am, however, extremely proud of myself for making a 12-week production schedule, meeting it with quality work that I'm passionate about, and really comfortable with, structure-wise. People who make it past the first 3 episodes seem about 90% likely to go through the whole series, and a rough guesstimate says about 15% of people who download the freebie go on to pick up future episodes. I've gone from coffee money over a year's time to coffee money every month, and sometimes with a fancy bagel to go with it. 2016 is my year to reinvest my take in growing, and taking a few more well-placed risks in discovery efforts. I feel confident enough that I might start playing around with pricing the individual episodes to drive more readers towards the box sets. I hadn't planned to release a whole-season omnibus, but I may open the door to that one. Print is on the to-do list, although I would like to prioritize audio, however the cost barrier to audio is still way up there. Perma-free isn't the magic bullet it used to be (if it ever really was), so I may be pulling episode 1 off perma-free some time in the future. The first 3 episodes have now become my newsletter reader magnet.

I have a Season 2 of Huntress in the planning stages, a sister series taking place in the same universe that I'm planning on releasing in the spring (I'm going to try a few new things with the structure on that one), and grandiosely cunning plans to extend the universe into spin-offs and franchise opportunities (Merchandising! Where the real money from the movie is made! #maytheschwartzbewithyou).

TLR: I've seen more success with this than anything else I've done up to now, I'm having 90% more fun, even on a budget, and even making the mistakes I've made. Since I'd be doing this anyway, even if no money came my way, I'm calling it a win.

That was probably more than you wanted to know, but there it is.  Happy new year!


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## Erratic (May 17, 2014)

Wow, Athena, that was a very informative write up. I was chewing my nails reading it because I'm doing almost everything you listed under "Mistakes". Super long serial, no launch promo, no promo of any kind...

Eeehhh, maybe I should step up my game. But right now I'm just focused on writing and getting the story done.


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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

Erratic said:


> Wow, Athena, that was a very informative write up. I was chewing my nails reading it because I'm doing almost everything you listed under "Mistakes". Super long serial, no launch promo, no promo of any kind...
> 
> Eeehhh, maybe I should step up my game. But right now I'm just focused on writing and getting the story done.


Serials are especially keen lessons on getting the story done, IMHO. Sometimes, that lack of word count or that ongoing deadline is a means to open up possibility in your storytelling.

And don't sweat the mistakes. Two nice things about making publishing mistakes is a.) no one ever died from mis-marketing a book; and b.) you can always stop doing The Thing That Isn't Working.  My 2016 goal is to Be Bolder with promo and communication (it's that "good girls don't toot their own horn" thing I was brought up with). I also don't believe for a minute that readers don't like long stories--or that they don't like short stories. I think, as with any story, it's about finding readers. First in ones and twos, and then by the handful, and sooner or later, by the truckload.

Happy New Year, everybody!


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

I have a question about "back matter" of a serial installment. What should I put there? A blurb for the next installment? I'm already including my "release schedule" as well as a link to my mailing list at the front of each installment. Not sure what should go at the back, however.

Suggestion...?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> I have a question about "back matter" of a serial installment. What should I put there? A blurb for the next installment? I'm already including my "release schedule" as well as a link to my mailing list at the front of each installment. Not sure what should go at the back, however.
> 
> Suggestion...?


I have a short afterword, acknowledgements, the particulars (copyright etc) and one line stating "the adventures continue in #X: TITLE" and links to my author page and website. Pretty short and sweet. I don't bother with adding an excerpt because I hope my readers are smart enough to use either the Look Inside feature or download the sample of the next installment. And I don't like padding out the page count.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> I have a question about "back matter" of a serial installment. What should I put there? A blurb for the next installment? I'm already including my "release schedule" as well as a link to my mailing list at the front of each installment. Not sure what should go at the back, however.


Right after the episode ends, I let the reader know that the adventure continues in the next episode and include the link and title of the next episode. After that is a call to join my mailing list and a request for reviews. Then there's a brief preview (only about a few hundred words or so) of the next episode complete with yet another link to the next episode.

Once the collected season is released, I also add that they can get the entire season for a lower price than the the individual episodes.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2016)

In my back matter of my serial I put a link to the next installment right after the last sentence. For instance the story ends... and underneath I write END OF BOOK 1, DOWNLOAD BOOK 2 HERE NOW. I don't want to risk them not flipping a page or getting distracted by anything else. And if it's the most current installment I will put LOOK FOR BOOK 3 in JANUARY 2016. UNTIL THEN CHECK OUT... And I put a link to the first book of another serial.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips and advice everyone. Very helpful.

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## Jasone (Mar 28, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> Okay, that's pretty different from what most of us are doing when we talk about serials. What you're doing isn't really a serial, but instead you're splitting up a permafree book. First off, I wouldn't call it a serial or publish it on Amazon, because what you're doing is exactly what readers say they hate about a serial: splitting up a book into several smaller books. Even if it's free (and there's no guarantee that you can make it free across all regions--I'm in Japan and even when I browse the Amazon US store, I can't see like 90% of the permafree books), you could still attract negative reviewers.
> 
> Instead, post up the chapters on a place like Wattpad and have the entire book available as a permafree. When I made the first books in my series free, I did this, releasing a chapter a week on Wattpad.


I wouldn't even know how to write a book that wasn't episodic like a TV show. I could try, but my brain is wired to write in episodes due to the massive amount of TV I watch. It's definitely a serial, cliffhangers and all.

But nice recommendation. Anywhere I could post the episodes to gain readership is a help as that's my main focus. I don't need to make any money off the first book, and I'd even be willing to make the second free if that's what it took.



> Why not release each episode in your serial/season 1 at set intervals (e.g. 1-2 weeks apart), with episode 1 at a low price (e.g. 99 cents) and then make the follow-up episodes the same or a little higher (e.g. 1.99). With each new release the Amazon algos will give you a little boost, so you keep your visibility percolating.


I was thinking of releasing them that way, but it's the price I'm having concerns over. Since Amazon is so big and KU seems to the best for visibility, I'm wondering if it's better to be in the KU program and have to sell the books at a price than to have them free everywhere else.

I like the Wattpad suggestion, though I've never used the site it looks like a place you can release your stories for free and gain fans in the process. I'm wondering if it's just better to release the books in episodes on sites like that and then enter the Amazon game with an already established readership backing.

If so, what are some other sites like Wattpad that you guys have used?


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

BelleAC said:


> In my back matter of my serial I put a link to the next installment right after the last sentence. For instance the story ends... and underneath I write END OF BOOK 1, DOWNLOAD BOOK 2 HERE NOW. I don't want to risk them not flipping a page or getting distracted by anything else. And if it's the most current installment I will put LOOK FOR BOOK 3 in JANUARY 2016. UNTIL THEN CHECK OUT... And I put a link to the first book of another serial.


Since it's only Part 1, I'll be putting out at this point, I won't yet have a link to Part 2 to include in the back matter, or I would do this. I'm mentioning my release schedule at the front of the book, but am wondering if it would be too redundant to mention it again at the back?

I notice your serials seem similar to the type of serial I'm doing. Have you been doing promos for your serial installments? I've never done any promos for any of my stuff in the past but I want to make that one of the new things I want to start doing this year. Other than Bknights, I'm not sure of any other places to do promos for serials.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

I'm dipping my toe into serial writing this year, with a six part story. Bookmarking this thread and I'll be reading through!
Mine will be six episodes, every two weeks, then a collection of all six. Be fun to see how it goes.....!.....


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Athena Grayson said:


> Well, isn't this a thread I should have found before now...


Are those page counts typical in serials or what.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

How many of you have done audio books for your serials? And if you have, did you do one book for each episode or one book for the compiled season?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

tamaraheiner said:


> How many of you have done audio books for your serials? And if you have, did you do one book for each episode or one book for the compiled season?


I haven't done them, but it seems like longer books do better in audio than shorter ones. So if you do it, I would recommend doing season compilations instead of individual episodes.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> I haven't done them, but it seems like longer books do better in audio than shorter ones. So if you do it, I would recommend doing season compilations instead of individual episodes.


Thanks. I'll plan on that then.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Fictionista said:


> Since it's only Part 1, I'll be putting out at this point, I won't yet have a link to Part 2 to include in the back matter, or I would do this. I'm mentioning my release schedule at the front of the book, but am wondering if it would be too redundant to mention it again at the back?


If I don't have the next episode ready to go, I put a little teaser about it (want to know what x and y have been up to?) then put a signup for my mailing list. I get more signup between books than when they can just preorder the next book. That said, I get more sales when I have the next book up for preorder. Have you considered doing preorders?



> I notice your serials seem similar to the type of serial I'm doing. Have you been doing promos for your serial installments? I've never done any promos for any of my stuff in the past but I want to make that one of the new things I want to start doing this year. Other than Bknights, I'm not sure of any other places to do promos for serials.


Yes, I promote my episodes. Mostly though, I promote the permafree first book. Bknights is good. I've run a few other promos, but haven't found any to write home about. A lineup of several promos over a week is more effective than just one. Best promo I've found is cross promoting with other authors. Box sets, newsletter swaps, group free promos, they are better than any promo site I've used. (I can say this because I've never had a bookbub, lol.)


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2016)

Fictionista said:


> Since it's only Part 1, I'll be putting out at this point, I won't yet have a link to Part 2 to include in the back matter, or I would do this. I'm mentioning my release schedule at the front of the book, but am wondering if it would be too redundant to mention it again at the back?
> 
> I notice your serials seem similar to the type of serial I'm doing. Have you been doing promos for your serial installments? I've never done any promos for any of my stuff in the past but I want to make that one of the new things I want to start doing this year. Other than Bknights, I'm not sure of any other places to do promos for serials.


I say do it in the front and back if only for this reason: most of the time when they start your book, the Kindle automatically syncs them to Chapter One. So they may not even see the front matter.

I have done a tiny bit of promo, none of which made a huge impact. The best was Romance eBook Deals. BettyBookFreak and Bknights didn't do much for me. And sadly, those are about all the promos available that are worth a damn for short works.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

BelleAC said:


> I say do it in the front and back if only for this reason: most of the time when they start your book, the Kindle automatically syncs them to Chapter One. So they may not even see the front matter.
> 
> I have done a tiny bit of promo, none of which made a huge impact. The best was Romance eBook Deals. BettyBookFreak and Bknights didn't do much for me. And sadly, those are about all the promos available that are worth a damn for short works.


Very good point about Kindle syncing readers to Chapter One. Hadn't even thought of that. Will that in mind I will definitely include the release schedule and link to my mailing list in the back as well the front.

It's disappointing that promos don't really do too much. I will look into Romance eBook Deals. It can't hurt to try I suppose.

Thanks!


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

In a bit of a panic here and have a burning question: Should I go wide with my serial or KDP select?


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> In a bit of a panic here and have a burning question: Should I go wide with my serial or KDP select?


Maybe it's just my genre (middle grade) but I've had five times as much success on other avenues as amaZon. At least five times. I had my serial in kdp for six months and earned a few cents.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Anyone have some experience with taking the first few installments of their series and releasing them as an omnibus? I'm thinking that even though the first 9 episodes of my series constitute one large story arc, they'll come to about 300,000 words of stuff, and I think that's just too long for one omnibus. Was thinking 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9 in three omnibuses would be more friendly word count and price wise.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

tamaraheiner said:


> Maybe it's just my genre (middle grade) but I've had five times as much success on other avenues as amaZon. At least five times. I had my serial in kdp for six months and earned a few cents.


I've had the exact opposite experience. My plan was to take my serial wide once the first season came out. It was a total waste of time. Out of all the platforms, I sold maybe one copy of each episode. After that, I said screw it and went into Select. Since then, I also recently pulled my other books from the other platforms and put them into Select. In just a week I've made more through KU than I made in a year on all the other platforms combined.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> I've had the exact opposite experience. My plan was to take my serial wide once the first season came out. It was a total waste of time. Out of all the platforms, I sold maybe one copy of each episode. After that, I said screw it and went into Select. Since then, I also recently pulled my other books from the other platforms and put them into Select. In just a week I've made more through KU than I made in a year on all the other platforms combined.


A sad testament to how well their monopoly works. What genre is yours?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

tamaraheiner said:


> A sad testament to how well their monopoly works. What genre is yours?


My serial is superhero fiction, one of my series is pulp adventure, and the other series is a thriller.

And I'd say it's more of a sad testament to how broken discoverability is on the other platforms. If those other platforms could provide similar results to KU, Amazon would have to start begging authors to even consider exclusivity. I don't like exclusivity, but if the other platforms expect me to trade the steady KU income for one sale every other month, they've got another thing coming. And it's not like they don't have the capability--Apple bought Booklamp, which could have been a total game-changer and have done absolutely nothing but sit on it.

Once the other platforms get serious about competing with Amazon and supporting indies, then I'll consider giving them another shot. But as it stands, four years with nothing to show for it other than a lot of money wasted on promotions is as much patience as I'm willing to give them.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Quiet said:


> This is just my opinion, but I don't know that you'll gain much from that kind of fragmentation. It will clutter your bookshelf (on the reader side) and possibly make things a bit more confusing for readers trying to hunt up the proper books to buy in the correct order. If you're going to group a long running serial or series, bigger collections are probably going to be better, despite the higher word counts.
> 
> I have a short-story series with a serialized plot arc and I grouped them into a collection of six for this reason. Even now, the author page on Amazon looks cluttered and the numbering system in the series field on the KDP dashboard means the collection isn't tied directly to the series. To get around that, I've used "series name + collections" as the series name for the collections so that at least they'll be easier to pick out in the list of books.
> 
> The collection has also cut down the income from the series as a whole since the price is a pretty hefty discount over buying individually, so you could end up giving up some money unless you plan some promo that takes advantage of the collections to push later books and sell a lot more copies than you would otherwise.


All good stuff. Thanks for sharing, Quiet! One omnibus would be budget-friendlier than three cover-wise.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2016)

Fictionista said:


> In a bit of a panic here and have a burning question: Should I go wide with my serial or KDP select?


Kindle Unlimited is 65 percent of my income. I have tried wide (in YA though, not Romance) and it didn't work so well. Romance serials are doing really well in KU right now.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Quiet said:


> This is just my opinion, but I don't know that you'll gain much from that kind of fragmentation. It will clutter your bookshelf (on the reader side) and possibly make things a bit more confusing for readers trying to hunt up the proper books to buy in the correct order. If you're going to group a long running serial or series, bigger collections are probably going to be better, despite the higher word counts.
> 
> I have a short-story series with a serialized plot arc and I grouped them into a collection of six for this reason. Even now, the author page on Amazon looks cluttered and the numbering system in the series field on the KDP dashboard means the collection isn't tied directly to the series. To get around that, I've used "series name + collections" as the series name for the collections so that at least they'll be easier to pick out in the list of books.
> 
> The collection has also cut down the income from the series as a whole since the price is a pretty hefty discount over buying individually, so you could end up giving up some money unless you plan some promo that takes advantage of the collections to push later books and sell a lot more copies than you would otherwise.


Like a lot of things, there are a lot of factors that go into this. For one, you have to consider length vs price. If you're writing episodes that are long enough to justify a $2.99 price, then that's great. But if you're writing shorter, you probably can't go above $1.99 without seeming like you're gouging readers, so you're only getting the 35% royalty.

In that case, the collection makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Most serials are released in two formats--episodes and seasons. So a lot of serial readers now expect that collection and may wait until you have one before they buy.

For my first season, the first episode is $0.99 and the other four episodes are $1.99. That means buying the individual episodes would cost $9. My first season collection is $4.99. So buying the collection is a better deal for the readers, because they save $4. It's also a better deal for me, because if someone buys the collection, I make a little more than I would if they bought the individual episodes (especially because not everyone who buys the first two episodes or so will necessarily go on to buy the entire series).

Readers are also more likely to buy longer books. I hope that'll change in the future, but at the moment it's the truth. Five 15K episodes aren't as attractive as one 75K collection. I sell more units of the collection than I have of the individual episodes because there are readers who want to read this stuff but prefer it in one volume.

It also allows me to release paperbacks. At the 5x8 trim size, a shorter serial will run maybe 80-100 pages. You could do it, but you've got a nonexistent spine and the price will be too high for the vast majority of readers. Maybe if CreateSpace offered smaller digest sizes, but that doesn't look like it's likely to happen any time in the near future.

It doesn't clutter things up on the reader side either, because readers who buy the individual episodes won't buy the collections. Why would they? They've already got the individual episodes. If they're big enough fans, they might buy the paperback. But they're not going to buy the individual episode and the collections unless you're offering additional content (and enough of it) for them to justify spending that extra cash on something they already own. It's not like print books where there's a collectibility aspect to owning multiple editions of your favorite title--there's no collectibility factor with ebooks, they're disposable.

The series numbering thing excluding the collections from the series page does indeed suck, but that's a small price to pay for the benefits of having the collection out there.


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## TonyU (Dec 14, 2014)

Are any horror writers having success with serials? I'm about 3/4 finished with the first book in my zombie apocalypse series and initially I'd planned on 3 or 4 books in a series. But, the more I write, I feel like it would be a great fit for a serial with 3 or 4 seasons (at least) instead.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> My serial is superhero fiction, one of my series is pulp adventure, and the other series is a thriller.
> 
> And I'd say it's more of a sad testament to how broken discoverability is on the other platforms. If those other platforms could provide similar results to KU, Amazon would have to start begging authors to even consider exclusivity. I don't like exclusivity, but if the other platforms expect me to trade the steady KU income for one sale every other month, they've got another thing coming. And it's not like they don't have the capability--Apple bought Booklamp, which could have been a total game-changer and have done absolutely nothing but sit on it.
> 
> Once the other platforms get serious about competing with Amazon and supporting indies, then I'll consider giving them another shot. But as it stands, four years with nothing to show for it other than a lot of money wasted on promotions is as much patience as I'm willing to give them.


Very good points. It would be amazing if other places stepped it up. I'm assuming it's just my genre, but I get zero visibility on Amazon. As in, even my freebie only gets a couple hundred downloads a month. That happens daily for me on Apple.

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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

tamaraheiner said:


> Very good points. It would be amazing if other places stepped it up. I'm assuming it's just my genre, but I get zero visibility on Amazon. As in, even my freebie only gets a couple hundred downloads a month. That happens daily for me on Apple.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you publish on Apple directly, or did you use a distributor such as Smashwords or Draft2Digital?


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Did you publish on Apple directly, or did you use a distributor such as Smashwords or Draft2Digital?


I use draft2digital.

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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> Anyone have some experience with taking the first few installments of their series and releasing them as an omnibus? I'm thinking that even though the first 9 episodes of my series constitute one large story arc, they'll come to about 300,000 words of stuff, and I think that's just too long for one omnibus. Was thinking 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9 in three omnibuses would be more friendly word count and price wise.


See my sig line.  I think where my experience differs from that of Quiet is that I knew the first "season" of Huntress was going to end with Episode 12. I planned for the main storyline to be wrapped up to a "happily for now" in those 12 episodes. Since my episodes are only about 12-15k long, what the box sets do is make me eligible to advertise in venues that don't take novellas. So in theory, if I ever get those first ten reviews on the first box set, I can start advertising at Book Barbarian et al. Amazon has put the individual episodes into a "series page" but not the box sets (I titled the box sets under their own variant, but I guess they haven't sold enough yet).

My normal price range for the box sets is 2.99 for the first one (a buck off, since you can get the first episode as a permafree), and 3.99 for the other three. The individual episodes are only available at Amazon for 99 cents each (#1 is permafree). Other retailers seem to reward longer books priced above the .99 threshold, so I just put the box sets on the other retailers. Currently, I'm doing an experiment where the first box set is .99 and the other three remain at 3.99. I'm playing around a LOT with pricing now - trying to find the sweet spot where I attract readers who are interested in the kind of stuff I write, not just the prices I sell at, and to appear in the alsobots ribbon of authors who write comparable stuff. I may raise the prices of the individual episodes to 1.99 to drive more traffic to the box sets. My philosophy leans towards rewarding early adopters with discounts, and the individual episodes came first.

Having said all that, the TLR is that boxing up episodes creates a longer title for you. If you need that to justify a price point that will put your stuff in the 70% royalty range versus the 35%, then you've got a compelling reason to do so. If you have marketing plans that include Bookbub or one of the other advertisers that don't accept novellas, then that is also a compelling reason to do so. If you plan to put your serial in print at some point, omnibuses (omnibii?) of a certain length will bring your costs under control.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Hey; so I'll have a serial starting in April, and I'm starting to think about covers. Obviously you need one for each ep, and one for the complete collection, and you want each cover to at least be a little different from the last. That's a lot of covers...! People that don't make their own covers, where have you gone to get a set for your serial? I'm thinking of trying 99 designs, but any other places to check out would be much appreciated.

For reference, I like what Eamon Ambrose has done with his. Strong covers, with enough the same, and enough different, for each episode that each one stands out but ties in strongly with each other. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014AU2O

Thanks!


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## BrentNichols (Mar 18, 2011)

> I like what Eamon Ambrose has done with his. Strong covers, with enough the same, and enough different


Those ARE well done. It's a little more sophisticated than taking the same image and tinting it for different episodes (which can look good too).

I have a shameful stock art addiction,  so multiple covers are easy for me. I think people do fairly well with using the same image repeatedly, though, and just adding "Episode 1", "Episode 2", etc. It certainly makes the branding unmistakeable. I suspect that having different cover art would be better, but putting the same art on every episode is a strong alternative.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

BrentNichols said:


> Those ARE well done. It's a little more sophisticated than taking the same image and tinting it for different episodes (which can look good too).
> 
> I have a shameful stock art addiction,  so multiple covers are easy for me. I think people do fairly well with using the same image repeatedly, though, and just adding "Episode 1", "Episode 2", etc. It certainly makes the branding unmistakeable. I suspect that having different cover art would be better, but putting the same art on every episode is a strong alternative.


I just do the tinting. I have outlines for about fifteen-twenty seasons and that's enough covers by itself without adding in episodes.

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## Guest (Jan 10, 2016)

Matthew Stott said:


> Hey; so I'll have a serial starting in April, and I'm starting to think about covers. Obviously you need one for each ep, and one for the complete collection, and you want each cover to at least be a little different from the last. That's a lot of covers...! People that don't make their own covers, where have you gone to get a set for your serial? I'm thinking of trying 99 designs, but any other places to check out would be much appreciated.
> 
> For reference, I like what Eamon Ambrose has done with his. Strong covers, with enough the same, and enough different, for each episode that each one stands out but ties in strongly with each other. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014AU2O
> 
> Thanks!


All of mine are done by pro_ebookscovers on Fiverr. She's fantastic. And you can't beat the price.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

tamaraheiner said:


> I just do the tinting. I have outlines for about fifteen-twenty seasons and that's enough covers by itself without adding in episodes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same. Especially since my series is a superhero team, so I went with the X-Men/Alphas approach and use six different headshots for the season cover, then add different color tints for the individual episodes. And having to get six different headshots every season is a pain.


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## TommyHill (Dec 21, 2015)

After perusing this thread for the past couple of days, I'm getting more and more convinced I should take my new idea and go serial with it. I had the idea of releasing the episodes weekly on my blog for free (Andy Weir style), both as a way to get some work out into the world and to draw traffic to my blog (where I've been posting details about my upcoming action-suspense series). Perhaps I'll release the episodes for 99 cents each on KDP, then compile the entire season for $5 or something after I release them all. I'm still up in the alir about pricing and whatnot, but I have as long as it takes to finish the episodes to figure that out.

I'm planning 15-20k episodes, 10-12 episodes per season, and I think I could push it to seven seasons. I'm new to the whole serials thing, so I'll probably make more concrete decisions as I go.


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## KDKinney (Aug 16, 2015)

Jim Johnson said:


> Anyone have some experience with taking the first few installments of their series and releasing them as an omnibus? I'm thinking that even though the first 9 episodes of my series constitute one large story arc, they'll come to about 300,000 words of stuff, and I think that's just too long for one omnibus. Was thinking 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9 in three omnibuses would be more friendly word count and price wise.


I made my serial a boxed set in December not long after I released the 4th book. I've been really happy with the results. The boxed said has been over 75% of my earnings last month and the same so far this month. It's in KU too. It did cannibalize my sales on the other 4 parts. I do make way more on that one book than I'd make if I sold the other 4 individually. I can't really do a permafree on the first part because of KU.

My serial is about to be continued on but I have 4 in the current one. That kind of wrapped up the "first season" of the story that I wanted to cover. I'll probably do another boxed set after I get 4 more out and call it the second season.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Thanks to those who replied!


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## AmrRahmy (Jan 11, 2016)

*warning: Super newbie questions coming up*

Are serials episodes similar to TV episodes in terms or story arc and continuity. One main story arc per season with a few storylines?

Do readers prefer novel length releases for mysteries and romance?

I thought serials and series referred to trilogies or anthologies like the Harry Potter series. Is it now used to refer to shorts and novella size series? 7.5 to 20k books?

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## AmrRahmy (Jan 11, 2016)

One more question, do you make a new cover for every episode? That seems like a lot of work.

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## benjclark (Dec 4, 2015)

organizedchaos said:


> *warning: Super newbie questions coming up*
> 
> Are serials episodes similar to TV episodes in terms or story arc and continuity. One main story arc per season with a few storylines?
> 
> ...


Serial is something that's kinda still evolving I think in the ebook world. It's beginning to resemble the old serials you'd see in pulp fiction magazines from roughly the 1890s-1940s. Many writers think of them in the manner you've noticed: like TV episodes. Some will even label them 'A Blah Blah Episode' on the cover, and then once they hit 5, 6, 9, a dozen, they release a Season. What sells? Seems like various romance subgenres are having a lot of success, some sci-fi, and thrillers and all the cross overs. Some of the covers use the same cover art, but maybe a different color overlay, or just go ahead and commission new covers on them all, but use a service like Fiverr or some writers do it themselves using Canva or similar.

Story lengths vary pretty widely. Some serials can be pretty short, but under 15k sounds *very* short to me. Some can hover close to that 50k mark as full-length novels.

Serials are not novel length trilogies, or longer series like Harry Potter. That's still just a series.


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## AmrRahmy (Jan 11, 2016)

benjclark said:


> Serial is something that's kinda still evolving I think in the ebook world. It's beginning to resemble the old serials you'd see in pulp fiction magazines from roughly the 1890s-1940s. Many writers think of them in the manner you've noticed: like TV episodes. Some will even label them 'A Blah Blah Episode' on the cover, and then once they hit 5, 6, 9, a dozen, they release a Season. What sells? Seems like various romance subgenres are having a lot of success, some sci-fi, and thrillers and all the cross overs. Some of the covers use the same cover art, but maybe a different color overlay, or just go ahead and commission new covers on them all, but use a service like Fiverr or some writers do it themselves using Canva or similar.
> 
> Story lengths vary pretty widely. Some serials can be pretty short, but under 15k sounds *very* short to me. Some can hover close to that 50k mark as full-length novels.
> 
> Serials are not novel length trilogies, or longer series like Harry Potter. That's still just a series.


Thank you.

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## AmrRahmy (Jan 11, 2016)

Can you recommend a prime example of serials (mystery /thriller or YA urban fantasy). You can pimp your own books if in these categories.

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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

For mystery/thriller, Black Star Canyon immediately comes to mind:


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## AmrRahmy (Jan 11, 2016)

I meant YA paranormal(vampires, werewolves, demons) fantasy in a modern setting.

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## TommyHill (Dec 21, 2015)

benjclark said:


> Some of the covers use the same cover art, but maybe a different color overlay, or just go ahead and commission new covers on them all, but use a service like Fiverr or some writers do it themselves using Canva or similar.


**immediately runs to see what Canva is**

holy crap this is amazing... i will be spending the day on this thing...


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## damienboyes (Sep 12, 2015)

I'm about to release book 4 of my 5-part serial, each book 45-50k. One of the things I'm finding difficult is getting the promo sites to accept a novella-length story from a newbie author that's part of a heavily serialized longer work. I've had a few successes in placing the first book with some of the smaller sites, but didn't even try for BookBub. And even sites like Robin Reads and ENT and OHFB and Books Butterfly turned me down.

I only got one specific response letting me know it was the serialization that was the reason for the rejection, so the others could have looked at the blurb or the cover or the writing and rejected it for those reasons, but it feels like marketing a serial is a fair bit more difficult than a single book of a series.

Anyone else finding this?


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

rachelmedhurst said:


> Okay, guys, I've opened a Serial Writer's Facebook Group. The YA one I'm in is really handy for quick answers and cross promo. If anyone wants to help me admin, that would be great!
> 
> Please feel free to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1095793953777935/


Can I join this group? I can't seem to find a "join group" button anywhere. Thanks.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

damienboyes said:


> I'm about to release book 4 of my 5-part serial, each book 45-50k. One of the things I'm finding difficult is getting the promo sites to accept a novella-length story from a newbie author that's part of a heavily serialized longer work. I've had a few successes in placing the first book with some of the smaller sites, but didn't even try for BookBub. And even sites like Robin Reads and ENT and OHFB and Books Butterfly turned me down.
> 
> I only got one specific response letting me know it was the serialization that was the reason for the rejection, so the others could have looked at the blurb or the cover or the writing and rejected it for those reasons, but it feels like marketing a serial is a fair bit more difficult than a single book of a series.
> 
> Anyone else finding this?


Length would also be a factor as some of the bigger sites, like Bookbub, won't accept novellas. Are you carrying this serial past the initial five installments? If so, then you could bundle the first five in a season and submit that (Bookbub at least will also consider reviews for the individual installments).

If you're not continuing it, then maybe consider some rebranding. At 45-50K, I'd call that a series and not a serial. When I think serial, I think shorter works, between 10-30k.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> Length would also be a factor as some of the bigger sites, like Bookbub, won't accept novellas. Are you carrying this serial past the initial five installments? If so, then you could bundle the first five in a season and submit that (Bookbub at least will also consider reviews for the individual installments).
> 
> If you're not continuing it, then maybe consider some rebranding. At 45-50K, I'd call that a series and not a serial. When I think serial, I think shorter works, between 10-30k.


My thoughts too. My books are middle grade and thus even shorter, at 10-12K, but 50K is book length.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

damienboyes said:


> I'm about to release book 4 of my 5-part serial, each book 45-50k. One of the things I'm finding difficult is getting the promo sites to accept a novella-length story from a newbie author that's part of a heavily serialized longer work.


Most people would call that novel-length


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Are any of you seeing a return on investment with your serials or are they more of a fun project?


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

KGGiarratano said:


> Are any of you seeing a return on investment with your serials or are they more of a fun project?


by far I make more money off my serials than my other books. And mine are middle grade, so I know my audience is micro.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

KGGiarratano said:


> Are any of you seeing a return on investment with your serials or are they more of a fun project?


I make my own covers and do my own formatting, so the investment is minimal. Most of what I spend on it is advertising. So far I've been breaking even, maybe making a slight profit.


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## WhyNotZoidberg? (Jan 17, 2016)

Does anybody have any space opera serials they'd like to recommend - yours or just something you've enjoyed? 

I'm considering one, and would like to get a better sense of what's already out there and working.


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## BrentNichols (Mar 18, 2011)

> Does anybody have any space opera serials they'd like to recommend


Star Raider, under my pen name. Season One was briefly wildly popular. Sold like gangbusters last summer. Season two is out now, and it's crickets everywhere. But season one was in the 6000-ish ranking for months.

Seven or eight episodes per season, 10-11 k words per episode. Space opera high adventure with lots of action.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W0E1KOO/


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

KGGiarratano said:


> Are any of you seeing a return on investment with your serials or are they more of a fun project?


My investment on my serial was modest, and I'm seeing modest returns. I don't think I've quite broken even yet, but I'm getting close. They're pretty much at fun project stage--niche of a niche genre and covers are distinctive in-genre but otherwise pretty modest. After reading Domino's great thread and discussing with some smart folks, I'm going to put the series on low heat and focus on another series idea that's a lot more marketable.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm still underwater on my serial. It's been an interesting experiment though and I'm glad I'm doing it. Who knows? It may even make money someday.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

KGGiarratano said:


> Are any of you seeing a return on investment with your serials or are they more of a fun project?


 My serial paid my rent for the past 4 out of 6 months, which I consider petty good, considering it was my first published effort as a totally new author [pen name]. Investment costs? My covers were barter, design for editing, but would have cost about $100 (on sale). Oh, and I spent $5 for a Fiver promo. That's it for advertising. Even I had paid cash for the covers, I earned back all of that in a week. 
My investment is mostly in (my) time and opportunity cost -- i.e., the more time I spend writing, the less time I have to take on editing gigs. I'm hoping when I get the sequel published, I'll be able to pay even more of my rent ;-D


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

P.J. Post said:


> I do unique covers with consistent branding. And yeah, it is a lot of work, but it's fun too; I love cover reveals and talking with fans about them.


Same. I've got no business spending what I do on cover art for my serial, but the covers are SO FUN.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Has anyone ever done a free promo for a portion of their serial that's NOT "Part 1"? 
I posted my instalments a couple of weeks apart, so the KU time periods are different. I already used up my 3 free days on KU to do a promo for Part 1. I'd like to do another promo, without waiting for the next 90 days for Part One to start. 
So I'm thinking of doing a promo for Part 2, or 3, etc. Only planning to spend $5 for a BKnights Fiver gig, so I'm willing to experiment. 
Just wondering if anyone has tried this, what the downside might be (if any). 

Thanks!


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

writerbee said:


> Has anyone ever done a free promo for a portion of their serial that's NOT "Part 1"?
> I posted my instalments a couple of weeks apart, so the KU time periods are different. I already used up my 3 free days on KU to do a promo for Part 1. I'd like to do another promo, without waiting for the next 90 days for Part One to start.
> So I'm thinking of doing a promo for Part 2, or 3, etc. Only planning to spend $5 for a BKnights Fiver gig, so I'm willing to experiment.
> Just wondering if anyone has tried this, what the downside might be (if any).
> ...


I have episodes 1 and 4 permanently free. Seems to be working.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

tamaraheiner said:


> I have episodes 1 and 4 permanently free. Seems to be working.


Thanks, Tamara! Is that for your Cassandra Jones serial or...?


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

writerbee said:


> Thanks, Tamara! Is that for your Cassandra Jones serial or...?


yes, that's the one. I should mention I don't sell on amazon. At all. Okay, 2-3 copies a month. I sell a few a week on B&N and several a day on iTunes. Not a big seller or anything like that (yet!), but I think having a free one in the middle of the season is just more incentive for people to buy all the episodes.


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

I've been following this thread for weeks (months?) and I've gained a lot of info from all of you. I currently have a light romance series where each book is a standalone. While that was fun to do, I wanted to do something with a little more gravitas so I started the Storm Country series. But mine are a bit longer than most of the ones in this thread (42,000 words) so I plan to release them at six week intervals. I already have book 1 out and am submitting book 2 tomorrow, so it should be up for the weekend. I've been advertising it as a series told in serialized format. Does that sound about right?


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

^ I wonder if the Bella Forrest series counts as a serial or just a series. Those ~18 books are in the 300-page each range.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

@writerbee:  You get five free days in each 90 day period.

I think if the books are at novel length, it might be better to write them as stand alone parts of a series, rather than a serial. More like watching a sequel to a movie, rather than an episode of a TV series. No cliffhanger, but something that moves the plot to the next book (resolve issue in book, but over-arching elements remain). I think it would probably sell better, as readers are more used to series that continue the story.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

she-la-ti-da said:


> @writerbee: You get five free days in each 90 day period.
> 
> I think if the books are at novel length, it might be better to write them as stand alone parts of a series, rather than a serial. More like watching a sequel to a movie, rather than an episode of a TV series. No cliffhanger, but something that moves the plot to the next book (resolve issue in book, but over-arching elements remain). I think it would probably sell better, as readers are more used to series that continue the story.


you can have cliff-hangers in movies and novel series, too. It's increasingly more common. Think The Empire Strikes Back. Parts 7&8 of Harry Potter. Parts 3&4 of Twilight. Parts 3&4 of Hunger Games.


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. My books are novel length but each contains a story that resolves one issue before creating another. There is a cliffhanger and the story continues in the next book. It's about a family so there are plenty of issues to resolve before I reach the end in book 4. I'm currently finishing up book 3 and am thinking ahead to 4 and exactly how to end it.

Do you find if you move ahead in your writing and then go back to edit the book before it that you lose your place and don't remember what's been said or done and in which book?


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

tamaraheiner said:


> yes, that's the one. I should mention I don't sell on amazon. At all. Okay, 2-3 copies a month. I sell a few a week on B&N and several a day on iTunes. Not a big seller or anything like that (yet!), but I think having a free one in the middle of the season is just more incentive for people to buy all the episodes.


That's a great tip, especially since, if I do a serial, I'm likely to target an audience similar to yours. Is book four the start of a new arc in your serial, or just a book in the middle?

Do you think yours don't sell on Amazon because of your target audience, or for some other reason? I'm curious because, of course, I'm likely to have an audience similar to yours.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

UnicornEmily said:


> That's a great tip, especially since, if I do a serial, I'm likely to target an audience similar to yours. Is book four the start of a new arc in your serial, or just a book in the middle?
> 
> Do you think yours don't sell on Amazon because of your target audience, or for some other reason? I'm curious because, of course, I'm likely to have an audience similar to yours.


It's just the middle of the season.

I was talking about that very question with someone in my writers group last night. She suggested it is the target audience, and her reasoning was that more kids have iPhones and tablets than kindles. That makes a lot of sense to me. My children have kindles (starting at age 5), but I know we are in the minority.

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## JVRudnick (Sep 12, 2014)

WhyNotZoidberg? said:


> Does anybody have any space opera serials they'd like to recommend - yours or just something you've enjoyed?
> 
> I'm considering one, and would like to get a better sense of what's already out there and working.


Yup....look down in my sig...I've published those and there's a brand new one coming next week...

I LOVE serials...other than the obligatory "...as you know Bob..." part of same...& trying to do that diff in each book is a challenge, eh!


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Matthew Stott said:


> ...I'm starting to think about covers. Obviously you need one for each ep, and one for the complete collection, and you want each cover to at least be a little different from the last. That's a lot of covers...! People that don't make their own covers, where have you gone to get a set for your serial? I'm thinking of trying 99 designs, but any other places to check out would be much appreciated.


KBoards member Victorine Lieske

http://www.victorinelieske.com/content/graphic-design-examples


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Released part one of my serial over a week ago and it is barely selling. I wished I'd gone with my original instinct and just completed all three parts before releasing it. Ugh. Here's to hoping sales will pick up with the subsequent releases of the final two installments.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

tamaraheiner said:


> by far I make more money off my serials than my other books.


Same here.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> Released part one of my serial over a week ago and it is barely selling. I wished I'd gone with my original instinct and just completed all three parts before releasing it. Ugh. Here's to hoping sales will pick up with the subsequent releases of the final two installments.


I wouldn't (and didnt) expect any money from the first one. After the others come out the revenue starts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

tamaraheiner said:


> I wouldn't (and didnt) expect any money from the first one. After the others come out the revenue starts.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well that's good to know...part 2 is on track for release on January 30th and I'm planning on making part 1 free and running a promo of some sort. Hopefully that'll work.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> Well that's good to know...part 2 is on track for release on January 30th and I'm planning on making part 1 free and running a promo of some sort. Hopefully that'll work.


It will work.

I launched mine on itunes in October (I don't even count amazon b/c I have no sales there). October and November, I saw zero sales, but lots of downloads of my free book. Like a hundred a day. Oh, I guess I sold two books in November. In December those number increased exponentially. Now halfway through January I've blown December out of the water. I'm really excited and hoping this trend continues, especially since I'll launch season 2 in April.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

tamaraheiner said:


> It will work.
> 
> I launched mine on itunes in October (I don't even count amazon b/c I have no sales there). October and November, I saw zero sales, but lots of downloads of my free book. Like a hundred a day. Oh, I guess I sold two books in November. In December those number increased exponentially. Now halfway through January I've blown December out of the water. I'm really excited and hoping this trend continues, especially since I'll launch season 2 in April.


Oooh, that's awesome! Good for you.  Was your first one free before your second came out or did you wait until your second one came out before making the first one free?


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Fictionista said:


> Oooh, that's awesome! Good for you.  Was your first one free before your second came out or did you wait until your second one came out before making the first one free?


I waited. Once I had two out I made it free.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

tamaraheiner said:


> I waited. Once I had two out I made it free.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great...thanks.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Happy snow day for me! My layout friend delivered the final proof versions of the print cover and interior layout for the first episode of my series. I'm waiting for the CreateSpace verifier to finish uploading so that I can order some proofs. Can't wait to get this in hand and then start offering print versions and signed editions!


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

BelleAC said:


> I say do it in the front and back if only for this reason: most of the time when they start your book, the Kindle automatically syncs them to Chapter One. So they may not even see the front matter.
> 
> I have done a tiny bit of promo, none of which made a huge impact. The best was Romance eBook Deals. BettyBookFreak and Bknights didn't do much for me. And sadly, those are about all the promos available that are worth a damn for short works.


What about Sweet Free Books and Genre Pulse? I had excellent results with them when I promoted my Christmas short story in December.


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

tamaraheiner said:


> by far I make more money off my serials than my other books. And mine are middle grade, so I know my audience is micro.


I've gotta say, that's REALLY motivating.

I also write and draw comics, and most of my fans came to those first, so I'm also really curious about whether there will be more crossover between my comic readers and my book readers if I write serials.


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## JKata (Dec 9, 2014)

For those in KU, has anybody tried using their free days immediately after publishing the first episode in a serial?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

JJoy said:


> For those in KU, has anybody tried using their free days immediately after publishing the first episode in a serial?


Not until I have at least the second episode out. You want people to have somewhere to go after the free book.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

I have a dilemma...

I'm about to release Part #2 of my 3-part serial  and it just dawned on me that the spoiler of what happened at the end of Part #1 appears at the very beginning of Part 2, thus making it completely viewable when someone clicks on the "Look Inside" preview feature on Amazon. EEK! What to do...?


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

I considered that when I wrote my story and made sure there was no spoiler in the first ten percent, which is what Amazon shows. If you can, you should rearrange your sections so the revealing part comes at a later point in the story.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> I have a dilemma...
> 
> I'm about to release Part #2 of my 3-part serial and it just dawned on me that the spoiler of what happened at the end of Part #1 appears at the very beginning of Part 2, thus making it completely viewable when someone clicks on the "Look Inside" preview feature on Amazon. EEK! What to do...?


This seems like something that would be common knowledge to me. You don't sample part 2 unless you've already finished part 1 because of the potential for spoilers.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> This seems like something that would be common knowledge to me. You don't sample part 2 unless you've already finished part 1 because of the potential for spoilers.


Not sure what you mean by not sampling part #2. The dilemma is the way I ended part 1 with a cliffhanger and then made it so that part 2 picked right up where part 1 ended. The way part 2 starts, the conversation between the character's etc., very glaringly refers to what happened at the end of part 1, the cliffhanger etc.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> Not sure what you mean by not sampling part #2. The dilemma is the way I ended part 1 with a cliffhanger and then made it so that part 2 picked right up where part 1 ended. The way part 2 starts, the conversation between the character's etc., very glaringly refers to what happened at the end of part 1, the cliffhanger etc.


Right, but why would someone read the spoiler for part 2 before completing part 1? I don't see why this is an issue.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> Right, but why would someone read the spoiler for part 2 before completing part 1? I don't see why this is an issue.


Why do people read books clearly labelled as "Serials" and then get angry and complain that it was an incomplete book? Simply put, because people do silly things.

I'd like to think it wouldn't be an issue, but...


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> Why do people read books clearly labelled as "Serials" and then get angry and complain that it was an incomplete book? Simply put, because people do silly things.
> 
> I'd like to think it wouldn't be an issue, but...


If someone leaves a negative review saying, "I read the sample for part 2 and it spoiled the ending of part 1," then that reflects more on that reviewer than on you. You can never account for every stupid thing someone might do, nor should you have to. That way lies madness.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> If someone leaves a negative review saying, "I read the sample for part 2 and it spoiled the ending of part 1," then that reflects more on that reviewer than on you. You can never account for every stupid thing someone might do, nor should you have to. That way lies madness.


I agree with you. I was planning to modify the first chapter of part 2 just a bit, but I think I'll just leave it be and let the chips fall where they may.


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## clintoc (May 15, 2015)

Depending on how you write your serials, there's little you can do to avoid the next episode spoiler issue. I'm suspecting you're ending your episodes with a cliffhanger, to drive traffic onto the next. If so, the only real solution is to have multiple PoVs to avoid dealing with that issue for as long as possible.

For an example of what I'm talking about, Yesterday's Gone season two ended with one of those  George R R Martin type cliffhangers at the end of the final episode. Episode three avoided dealing with it until chapter 2, I'd guess for the same reason though the ToC would've given the secret away. In the way the series was written at that time, it was good enough to avoid the revelation to those reading episode to episode. But as they released the full season, you could see it clear as day due to the added length.


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## authorlukewest (Feb 19, 2016)

Hello everybody, 

I'm new to Kboards, with this being my first post   (hence the whole no profile pic thingy.). Firstly, I'm so glad I have found this thread, it's everything I have been looking for. 
I have published two YA/NA books (www.authorlukewest.com) for anybody that cares. I'm currently in the process of releasing my first serial and have a couple of questions for the more experiences members. I apologise about the 'sure to be repeated questions' and I thank you for your patience. 

1. I'm looking at publishing through Amazon unlimited. It seems serial fiction isn't overly popular (or much supported by Amazon) and was wondering if this is the best place to start things off or do you recommend somewhere else?

2. I'm planning on releasing season 1 once I have a few episodes up my sleeve and releasing them on a bi-monthly basis. Is this too far between? 

3. Word length will be around the 15-20k mark each ep, which seems to be the most suitable length?

Appreciate your time. I look forward to making new friends  

Luke


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## WhyNotZoidberg? (Jan 17, 2016)

Welcome aboard, Luke.

I haven't actually _done _this yet, so maybe I'm not the best source of advice, but my plan for my upcoming serial is much like yours. Episodes will run 15K to 20K words. There will be six in the first "season" which will eventually be collected into a Season box set. There will be individual stories that wrap up per episode with a larger season arc.

The plan is to aim the individual episodes at KU, pricing them with the expectation that nobody will really buy them. Then the collection will go wide and be priced at a substantial discount from 6x the episode price. So the episodes will make their money on page reads in KU, then the non-KU people will be offered a 90-120K word collection at a novel price.

Will this work? I have no idea. But that's the plan at this point. The only thing that worries me a little about yours is the bi-monthly release schedule. That's a little long to my taste. I'm thinking every three weeks to avoid the 30-day cliff. That does mean I'll have to have written well ahead, if not have the whole thing complete before I launch, but I think it's worth it.

Again, welcome aboard. I haven't been here all that long, but have gotten tons of excellent advice from very smart people. Totally worth the membership fee!


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## authorlukewest (Feb 19, 2016)

Hi, 

Thanks so much for your advice. 

I'm now re-thinking my release schedule and may do what you suggest by having the whole season ready first. I appreciate your time.

Luke


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

After much time planning to start work on a serial, I've actually started work on it.  Still early days as time is limited to write in but I'm making progress (c 10k words done) which means a long way to go.

I'm planning on going a little different with it by making it a webfiction story with weekly updates - or more if I get enough done.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

authorlukewest said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> I'm new to Kboards, with this being my first post  (hence the whole no profile pic thingy.). Firstly, I'm so glad I have found this thread, it's everything I have been looking for.
> I have published two YA/NA books (www.authorlukewest.com) for anybody that cares. I'm currently in the process of releasing my first serial and have a couple of questions for the more experiences members. I apologise about the 'sure to be repeated questions' and I thank you for your patience.
> ...


Hey Luke, welcome to the serial writers' club. Your secret decoder ring is in the mail. To answer your questions:

1. You mean Kindle Unlimited, right? This is a good idea. I've got my serial in KU and it makes more from KU page reads than it does in sales.

2. Bi-monthly is too far apart. Weekly is the ideal schedule, with bi-weekly being a little less ideal but still okay. I launched my serial as a monthly and I think that was a mistake. You want to have releases every two weeks at the latest to keep people coming back.

3. There are a lot of different word lengths for serials, but 15-20K is probably the best, IMO.


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## KeenToWrite (Oct 30, 2015)

I would also advise you to write the whole thing first - at least in draft - before releasing the first episode. That way you can keep your release schedule tight and treat the entire "season" as a single novel during the editing process. Much easier to change key story elements before you release, if you find something that isn't working.


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## authorlukewest (Feb 19, 2016)

Thanks for the advise - again, glad I found you all


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## shellabee (Aug 4, 2015)

Just wanted to check in on this and say "Thanks!" to all who have shared advice and experiences here. It's been invaluable to me as I've planned and started my own project.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Anyone who's made a box set/omnibus of their serial, do you keep it formatted in parts, or just put it all together? Starting to think of the next step now my final part is nearly out.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

Wow, just stumbled up (and bookmarked) this thread. Looks like there's loads of great advice in here.

I'm launching a six-part serial on March 24th, releasing episodes 1 & 2 together, and making 3 & 4 available to pre-order. I worry my episodes are short - only around 12,000 - 15,000 words each, but at 99c I still think readers are getting a good deal. Going to read through the rest of the thread so see what I can learn from you all, though, so may change all of the above!


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Barry, those are awesome serial covers!


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

KGGiarratano said:


> Barry, those are awesome serial covers!


Thanks! I'm working on a trailer for the series now. I'm going to add some sort of bug over the black, I think, but this should give you an idea. Needs sound on, btw!

(Edited to link to the new version)

https://youtu.be/bfUX69_km4I


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

barryjhutchison said:


> Thanks! I'm working on a trailer for the series now. I'm going to add some sort of bug over the black, I think, but this should give you an idea. Needs sound on, btw!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EUNwLMkuTw&feature=youtu.be


That's great!


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## Hasbeen (Aug 13, 2013)

Ok I'm only on the fourth book in my series and compared to most of you that just the start but I have a question.

Do you go back and glance over your first book to remind yourself of tone, wording and other things that you felt helped make it a good book?

I started going back over my first book to check some of the editing out and found that I had strayed from what I thought made it an enjoyable read. 

If you do go back what do you specifically look at?


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

A.Barnett said:


> That's great!


Thanks! I've added a bug over the black screen now, as I was worried the constant black might be off-putting. https://youtu.be/bfUX69_km4I


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Anyone who's made a box set/omnibus of their serial, do you keep it formatted in parts, or just put it all together? Starting to think of the next step now my final part is nearly out.


The handful of ones I've read (Howey's stuff) usually keeps them in separate parts, one after the other.

I'll do that for my omnibus--formatting it episode after episode, with their own sets of chapter numbers. Basically as originally published but now as part of the same title.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

barryjhutchison said:


> Thanks! I've added a bug over the black screen now, as I was worried the constant black might be off-putting. https://youtu.be/bfUX69_km4I


Barry, that's amazing!


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

KGGiarratano said:


> Barry, that's amazing!


Thanks! I've just tweaked it a little, and very happy with the finished result


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> The handful of ones I've read (Howey's stuff) usually keeps them in separate parts, one after the other.
> 
> I'll do that for my omnibus--formatting it episode after episode, with their own sets of chapter numbers. Basically as originally published but now as part of the same title.


You know, I could have sworn that Wool was all one story, without being divided into parts, but you're right, it is. Hmm. Guess if it's good enough for Howey...


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

Rinelle Grey said:


> You know, I could have sworn that Wool was all one story, without being divided into parts, but you're right, it is. Hmm. Guess if it's good enough for Howey...


For my box set I plan keeping the episodes distinct, just like they would be in a TV show box set, which is what I'm sort of basing my approach on. I'm also going to put in some extra stuff, although I don't know what yet!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Anyone who's made a box set/omnibus of their serial, do you keep it formatted in parts, or just put it all together? Starting to think of the next step now my final part is nearly out.


I keep them separated in parts.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Anyone who's made a box set/omnibus of their serial, do you keep it formatted in parts, or just put it all together? Starting to think of the next step now my final part is nearly out.


I plan to keep mine separated when I bundle. Even though it's a single continuous story, there's a rhythm that makes each one feel like a distinct unit, and I think it will work better to make the dividing lines obvious to readers.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## wittyblather (Feb 29, 2016)

Hi there, serial writers of Kboards! 

I'm considering writing a serial as my first foray into Kindle publishing, likely under a pen name. The smaller word count goals per episode seem more manageable to me than sustaining a novel on my own with no feedback -- that's something I'll attempt later, when I've built up more discipline. I don't expect great success in this project of mine. I'd just like to finish something to prove I can do it, and perhaps start building a platform for when I decide to get more serious.

Anyway, I'm going to comb through this entire thread for pointers, but does anyone here write a YA sci-fi serial? That's my intended genre, and I'd just like to get a general sense of the plot structure one might follow, both over the course of one episode and a season.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

wittyblather said:


> Hi there, serial writers of Kboards!
> 
> I'm considering writing a serial as my first foray into Kindle publishing, likely under a pen name. The smaller word count goals per episode seem more manageable to me than sustaining a novel on my own with no feedback -- that's something I'll attempt later, when I've built up more discipline. I don't expect great success in this project of mine. I'd just like to finish something to prove I can do it, and perhaps start building a platform for when I decide to get more serious.
> 
> Anyway, I'm going to comb through this entire thread for pointers, but does anyone here write a YA sci-fi serial? That's my intended genre, and I'd just like to get a general sense of the plot structure one might follow, both over the course of one episode and a season.


I haven't written one yet, but I have a ya sci-fi serial planned. No idea if there's a market for those though!


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

Just finished writing up the first episode of a serial I've recently started working on, a sort of epic fantasy/adventure archaeologist story.  It came in at around 22.2K, which was in the range of what I was looking for.  Needs a little bit of tidying up before doing anything with it.

My aim is to release it as a webfiction story - a chapter (or more) a week, with the whole episode being done over the course of the month and then, hopefully, publish it.  I may hold off for a little while until I get the next one or two parts done so I have a nice backlog to put out.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

P.J. Post said:


> The episodic TV show structure is definitely a good way to conceptualize serials, but Dickens watched little, if any, television, at least according to Slartibartfast. Imo, when published together, the resulting book shouldn't read like a short story collection, it should still be suspenseful, coherent and properly paced - whole - like any other novel.
> 
> Just an opinion from the peanut gallery.


"Like any other novel" is the key there. Most people who write serials aren't writing novels and we're not writing short stories. It's somewhere in the middle. In fact, Dickens' method of writing serials is what most serial writers don't do and what many readers complain about--chopping up a novel and releasing it in parts. Modeling your serial after the way Dickens did it isn't necessarily a good idea in today's market.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

I'm about to bundle my serial -- I think of it as a mini-series (e.g. 6 parts) more than a tv series that lasts an entire season (e.g. 22 eps) (in the US) I kept the chapters sequential from one part to another throughout the serial, so I'll just do the same thing in the bundled edition. I'm going to insert Part One, Part Two, etc. but not include the little re-cap that I provided at the beginning of each installment. I figure if someone is reading bundled version, those "in last week's episode" bits would just be irritating. 

I'm finalizing the sequel aka Season 2 now. Wondering whether I should put out the bundled edition of "Season 1" first, or afterwards, or does it matter? Naturally I want to maximize visibility on KU. Do any of you more experienced authors see any (dis)advantage to release timing, one way or another? 
Thanks!

DMac
w/a Victoria Hodge


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi, I've been reading through this thread but whew! Think I need to do some blinking. 

But I have a question that I'm not sure is answered here, forgive me if I missed it, but are any of you wide with your serial episodes or just the entire collection? I'm preparing to release my first episode with a quick second following a few days later, but I'm unsure as to whether or not KU vs wide would be better. I like the idea of going wide to start getting traction as a new author, but also the thought of uploading all of those episodes on the different outlets weekly makes me cringe. Does anyone have experience with this? A much deserved thanks in advance.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

Thank you, P.J. All of your points make perfect sense.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

P.J. Post said:


> To begin with, I never said anything about chopping up a novel. What I did mean to infer, however, is that I prefer a continuous narrative for both my episodes - and my omnibus/novel/not sure what I'm going to call it yet collection, one that pretty much resembles a novel (specifically, an adventure novel). So I structured my episodes accordingly, even though I have no more idea than my readers do about what's going to happen next. Okay, I know a little more.


To begin with, I never said that you advocated chopping up a novel. I called attention to the phrase "like any other novel," because most serials aren't structured in the same way as novels and that the method Dickens used isn't advisable for modern-day serials.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

I want to ask something which may have been asked here before: do you think serials perform better in KU than wide?
I think I lost some money when I released my last two books and was wide. Later on, i put them in Select.

Live and learn.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Okay, so ironically, my serial, of which part one was released in January, and part two in February, with part three to be released by the end of this month, literally isn't budging on Amazon. However, on Google it has begun taking off like wildfire. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since at the moment all of my books perform well on Google and Barnes and Noble but not on Amazon. Go figure. 

Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

writerbee said:


> I'm about to bundle my serial -- I think of it as a mini-series (e.g. 6 parts) more than a tv series that lasts an entire season (e.g. 22 eps) (in the US) I kept the chapters sequential from one part to another throughout the serial, so I'll just do the same thing in the bundled edition. I'm going to insert Part One, Part Two, etc. but not include the little re-cap that I provided at the beginning of each installment. I figure if someone is reading bundled version, those "in last week's episode" bits would just be irritating.
> 
> I'm finalizing the sequel aka Season 2 now. Wondering whether I should put out the bundled edition of "Season 1" first, or afterwards, or does it matter? Naturally I want to maximize visibility on KU. Do any of you more experienced authors see any (dis)advantage to release timing, one way or another?
> Thanks!
> ...


Bumping this, b/c I'm still wondering about the experience of other serial authors in releasing the bundled installments/episodes before, during, or after the release of the sequel/season 2?
Thanks for any input you can provide! :-D


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Fictionista said:


> Okay, so ironically, my serial, of which part one was released in January, and part two in February, with part three to be released by the end of this month, literally isn't budging on Amazon. However, on Google it has begun taking off like wildfire. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since at the moment all of my books perform well on Google and Barnes and Noble but not on Amazon. Go figure.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


Great to hear that - you're in one boat with Patty - she says her sales in other vendors are 70-95%. 


T76 said:


> Can I please ask for advise as well?
> 
> I am working on a serial, in it I have an introductory short story, then a novel, I also have another short story as a freebie for my mail list. I plan on writing a short story between each novel (which is planned as a series of 4).
> 
> ...


.
Why not go with "episode" or "season"? This is the trend with serials as you imply there are more installments. Of course, you can go with part, as well.


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## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

writerbee said:


> Bumping this, b/c I'm still wondering about the experience of other serial authors in releasing the bundled installments/episodes before, during, or after the release of the sequel/season 2?
> Thanks for any input you can provide! :-D


I don't have any personal experience, but what I'm planning on doing for my serial (once I finish my current series) is to release the episodes throughout the year as ebooks only and then release the whole season in November as an ebook and paperback. Eventually, I'd just put out the complete season in other retailers and take each episode out of Select, but I'm not completely sold on that.

Anyway, getting back to your point: I'd release the complete season before you start the next one. Otherwise it might get too confusing.


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi. As Antara mentioned, the trend does seem to be Season and Episode like t.v. shows. One of my fave writers though has a serial out with chapters too, so it can be done either way. But when you're labeling Book 1 or Book 2, I would say that falls more in line with a series vs a serial. Just my observation.

Guys, I've written not 1...but 2 serials to release soon in different genres. Yikes! Hopefully I don't fall flat on my face at this. I'm pretty excited just to get something out there and I do prefer writing shorter books.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Mari,

Are yours all done? Or at they the first episodes? My plan is to write the whole thing at once then release on a schedule.


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

KGGiarratano said:


> Mari,
> 
> Are yours all done? Or at they the first episodes? My plan is to write the whole thing at once then release on a schedule.


One season is mostly done and the other one is part way done. But finishing them won't be a problem because the episodes are 10-20k words so not much.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Vintage Mari said:


> One season is mostly done and the other one is part way done. But finishing them won't be a problem because the episodes are 10-20k words so not much.


That's fantastic. It takes me while to write. I average 1500 words a day (what I can squeeze into naptime), if I'm lucky. I'm still working on Episode 1.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

David Neth said:


> I don't have any personal experience, but what I'm planning on doing for my serial (once I finish my current series) is to release the episodes throughout the year as ebooks only and then release the whole season in November as an ebook and paperback. Eventually, I'd just put out the complete season in other retailers and take each episode out of Select, but I'm not completely sold on that.
> 
> Anyway, getting back to your point: I'd release the complete season before you start the next one. Otherwise it might get too confusing.


Thanks, David Neth! :-D Your approach makes sense to me. But I've also heard that releasing the [sequel/ next in series/ 2nd "season", whatever you want to call it] will stimulate interest in the 1st season, so maybe let that percolate for a while and then put out the 1st season as a bundle. 
Probably 6 of one, half dozen of another....

Good luck with your serial!


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

@KG: 1500 words is still a nice chunk per day. Sometimes it's hard writing with kids around. Don't you have 3? We have one part-time and I still feel guilty asking him to play with his legos just a bit longer while I finish a chapter.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Vintage Mari said:


> @KG: 1500 words is still a nice chunk per day. Sometimes it's hard writing with kids around. Don't you have 3? We have one part-time and I still feel guilty asking him to play with his legos just a bit longer while I finish a chapter.


I do have three. It's tough. Baby steps. Literally.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

What's everyone's thoughts on serial pricing? My instinct was to go for 99c per episode, but having spoken to a few people who'd class themselves as heavy Kindle readers, they say they shy away from 99c every time, as they think it suggests something is trashy. They've suggested $2.99, but that feels expensive to me for 15,000 word episodes.

What do you guys think? How are you pricing your episodes?


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

You could do 99 cents as an intro price and then push it up to $2.99.
Or you could do reverse. Put it at $2.99 and drop if need be.
Or make the first 99 cents and the rest $2.99.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

KGGiarratano said:


> You could do 99 cents as an intro price and then push it up to $2.99.
> Or you could do reverse. Put it at $2.99 and drop if need be.
> Or make the first 99 cents and the rest $2.99.


Good point! That's the big difference I need to get my head around with the indie stuff, I can experiment with pricing as much as I like! I might make episodes 1 and 2 99c, but try $2.99 for 3-6 to start with.

Thanks for the reply!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

barryjhutchison said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on serial pricing? My instinct was to go for 99c per episode, but having spoken to a few people who'd class themselves as heavy Kindle readers, they say they shy away from 99c every time, as they think it suggests something is trashy. They've suggested $2.99, but that feels expensive to me for 15,000 word episodes.
> 
> What do you guys think? How are you pricing your episodes?


I do $0.99 for the initial week of release then up it to $1.99, then once the season's finished, I release the season compilations are $4.99. I think it helps with price comparison to do it that way. Getting the whole season in one volume for $5 is cheaper than buying the individual episodes totaling $10.

You can do $2.99 as well if you like and it's the same principle--in fact, it makes the seasons look even more attractive (get all episodes in one set and save $10). For me, the initial episode release is more for the hardcore fans. They get it right away at a cheaper price.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Right now I'm experimenting with pricing for the KU market, so episode 1 is 2.99 and the others are 3.99. Not much traction or sales, so I'll probably switch back to 99 cents for the first and 2.99 for the others. I'll be releasing the omnibus soon and I'll want to have the pricing set up on the installments so that the omnibus price is attractive.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> Anyone who's made a box set/omnibus of their serial, do you keep it formatted in parts, or just put it all together? Starting to think of the next step now my final part is nearly out.


For the ebook box set, I left them in episodes. for the paperback, I reformatted it to read as a whole novel.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Vintage Mari said:


> Hi, I've been reading through this thread but whew! Think I need to do some blinking.
> 
> But I have a question that I'm not sure is answered here, forgive me if I missed it, but are any of you wide with your serial episodes or just the entire collection? I'm preparing to release my first episode with a quick second following a few days later, but I'm unsure as to whether or not KU vs wide would be better. I like the idea of going wide to start getting traction as a new author, but also the thought of uploading all of those episodes on the different outlets weekly makes me cringe. Does anyone have experience with this? A much deserved thanks in advance.


My experience has been different than others here, and perhaps it's because of the genre (middle grade). But 99% of my sales come from being wide. I had my serial on KU for six months and only got a handful of reads. I'm so pleased with how I'm doing wide that I'm getting ready to try it with all my books on Amazon.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

barryjhutchison said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on serial pricing? My instinct was to go for 99c per episode, but having spoken to a few people who'd class themselves as heavy Kindle readers, they say they shy away from 99c every time, as they think it suggests something is trashy. They've suggested $2.99, but that feels expensive to me for 15,000 word episodes.
> 
> What do you guys think? How are you pricing your episodes?


I had mine at $0.99. I recently changed it to $1.99 as an experiment. so far, selling exactly the same amount. Halfway through March I've already made more than all of February. Quite pleased with that. 



Fictionista said:


> Okay, so ironically, my serial, of which part one was released in January, and part two in February, with part three to be released by the end of this month, literally isn't budging on Amazon. However, on Google it has begun taking off like wildfire. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since at the moment all of my books perform well on Google and Barnes and Noble but not on Amazon. Go figure.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I527M using Tapatalk


This is similar to my experience, only on iTunes.


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## shellabee (Aug 4, 2015)

From this thread, it sound like nearly everyone uses the "season" model similar to television series. Is there generally a break between seasons? 

What are the thoughts about an ongoing series without defined "seasons" and without breaks? There would be various story arcs with big finales and so on, but it would be more like a comic book series with a new monthly episode every month. Longer installments (~30K).


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

shellabee said:


> What are the thoughts about an ongoing series without defined "seasons" and without breaks? There would be various story arcs with big finales and so on, but it would be more like a comic book series with a new monthly episode every month. Longer installments (~30K).


That's essentially what Pistols and Pyramids is. Regular installments at 32-35k words each, no particular season break; just a continuous story. I'm going to repackage the first three into an omnibus with an illustrated cover to see if that pulls in readers a little better than the text-heavy covers.


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

Jim Johnson said:


> Right now I'm experimenting with pricing for the KU market, so episode 1 is 2.99 and the others are 3.99. Not much traction or sales, so I'll probably switch back to 99 cents for the first and 2.99 for the others. I'll be releasing the omnibus soon and I'll want to have the pricing set up on the installments so that the omnibus price is attractive.


I've noticed that sales didn't matter for me whether it's $2.99 or $0.99...so I've stayed at $2.99. I mean hell, why not? It's less sales that I need to get on shorts at that price. But the two serials I'm about to put out are going in KU (after being back and forth on it more than a bee to the flowers to the hive and back again), so this is the strategy I've come up with for the time being:

-1st episode at $2.99
-discount the price on it to $0.99 when #2 comes out a week later 
-return #1 to $2.99 after a week
-use my KU promotion for #1 to FREE when #3 comes out
-price it back to $2.99 after the week is over
-permanently price #1 to $0.99 when #4 comes out and also do $0.99 to #2 for a week

and so forth until all six episodes are out, at which time I'll probably set the box to $5.99 because it's still a deal and then play with that price when I put out more books in that world (whether it's another serial or whatever). Who knows how that will go, but I've gone over it in my head for weeks so we shall see what the results actually are.


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

tamaraheiner said:


> My experience has been different than others here, and perhaps it's because of the genre (middle grade). But 99% of my sales come from being wide. I had my serial on KU for six months and only got a handful of reads. I'm so pleased with how I'm doing wide that I'm getting ready to try it with all my books on Amazon.


This is good to know. I'm only doing one round in KU then going wide with the box set.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

Vintage Mari said:


> I've noticed that sales didn't matter for me whether it's $2.99 or $0.99...so I've stayed at $2.99. I mean hell, why not? It's less sales that I need to get on shorts at that price. But the two serials I'm about to put out are going in KU (after being back and forth on it more than a bee to the flowers to the hive and back again), so this is the strategy I've come up with for the time being:
> 
> -1st episode at $2.99
> -discount the price on it to $0.99 when #2 comes out a week later
> ...


That's really useful - thanks for sharing!


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

Vintage Mari said:


> I've noticed that sales didn't matter for me whether it's $2.99 or $0.99...so I've stayed at $2.99. I mean hell, why not? It's less sales that I need to get on shorts at that price. But the two serials I'm about to put out are going in KU (after being back and forth on it more than a bee to the flowers to the hive and back again), so this is the strategy I've come up with for the time being:
> 
> -1st episode at $2.99
> -discount the price on it to $0.99 when #2 comes out a week later
> ...


That sounds like a good strategy. How long is each episode? 
Mine range from 18K to 37K (the shortest ep actually in the middle). I got some complaints at how "expensive" my installments were - at $1.99 each! It used to bug me but then I remembered, heck people pay $4 for a greeting card which has way fewer words than a book. 
So for Season 2, I'm considering raising my prices in the way you've described. I'll be more organized about the release dates this time around, and I've got a bit of a newsletter going, so I can announce the deals to my subscribers, and that might help things move along, too.


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

I've got a few questions that I'm looking for opinions on if possible.

I've been on a bit of a roll of late, 60K words in 5 weeks, and all of them on the serial I'm working on.  Its been a long time since I've made progress like this.  Part 1 is finished and waiting for a polish.  Part 2 is around 75% done.  Both will be around the 22-24k range when done.

I am considering when it comes to release them to actual bundle them together as a 2 for 1 kind of deal.  There are a couple of reasons for this.  Part 1 ends on an almost kinda cliff hanger.  The MC has survived one ordeal only for another to start.  Meanwhile part 2 deals with resolving the new ordeal as well as fleshing out the world but is light on action compared to part 1.

Do you think it a good idea to bundle them?

The other questions are to do with parts and chapters and titles and what not and how others handle them.

Do people include chapters in their serial parts?  As my parts are planned to be in the 20-30K range the chapters would be fairly limited in number if I include them and may not be entirely necessary.

My plan is to also model it kind of like a TV show - the series made up of a number of books (seasons) broken down into parts (episodes).  Each book has an overarcing plot that ties the parts together, which are then woven into the main plot of the series.  Has anyone else doe it this way and if so how did you go about titling it?  I've given each part a title so far, but having 3 titles (series, book, part) on a cover seems a little excessive.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

My episodes are 15k and I use chapters. Generally, my chapters are around 1000-1500 words. There's no rule that says how long a chapter should be, so I wouldn't worry about them feeling limited. In fact as a reader, I prefer shorter chapters. I'm usually reading on the go, so I like having those breaks I can easily reach between bus stops or when waiting in line somewhere. 

I structure my serial as a TV show as well. I have five episodes per season and the individual episodes are more or less stand-alone stories or "monster of the week" episodes, with an overarching story that plays out in the background until coming to fruition in the season finale. My method of titling goes Series : Episode Number : Episode Title. Haven't had any complaints about the titling being excessive.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> My episodes are 15k and I use chapters. Generally, my chapters are around 1000-1500 words. There's no rule that says how long a chapter should be, so I wouldn't worry about them feeling limited. In fact as a reader, I prefer shorter chapters. I'm usually reading on the go, so I like having those breaks I can easily reach between bus stops or when waiting in line somewhere.
> 
> I structure my serial as a TV show as well. I have five episodes per season and the individual episodes are more or less stand-alone stories or "monster of the week" episodes, with an overarching story that plays out in the background until coming to fruition in the season finale. My method of titling goes Series : Episode Number : Episode Title. Haven't had any complaints about the titling being excessive.


This. except my seasons have varying numbers of episodes, more as the MC gets older.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

A. S. Warwick said:


> I've got a few questions that I'm looking for opinions on if possible.
> 
> I've been on a bit of a roll of late, 60K words in 5 weeks, and all of them on the serial I'm working on. Its been a long time since I've made progress like this. Part 1 is finished and waiting for a polish. Part 2 is around 75% done. Both will be around the 22-24k range when done.
> 
> ...


I would release book 1 and 2 and then bundle them; as for the season/episode thing, I put on the cover "episode" if that's what you asked for.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Okay, I want to ask this peculiar question - I have a standalone book but because of its unique story arc, I decided to release part 1 as a freebie and the rest to sell it at a full price. Think Sean Platt and Johnny B. Truant's Yesterday's Gone, The Beam or Unicorn Western. In my manuscript I have entitled the first part as a part but decided to go with "the complete season 1". It just sounds cooler this way than "the complete part 1" + this is the trend now. Your thoughts?
The whole novel with its all three seasons or rather parts is titled "the complete seasons 1, 2 &3". However, as my editor noted the word season suggests there would be more seasons which is not the case. 
Maybe, I should put at the end of the book description "book title is a standalone supernatural suspense with no cliffhanger." 
Your advice?


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## Mari Oliver (Feb 12, 2016)

@Antara: If you wrote the piece as a standalone, then my opinion is that it should be released as such. Serials have a different structure than a standalone so if you released it in parts, then it would be like a chopped up novel which wouldn't be fair for the readers. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. Far as having released the first part for free, that's okay. Just put the whole thing out together. Serials have stories within a larger story, like Arabian Nights style. 


@A.S. Warwick: Hey, truthfully? I would release the episodes on a schedule. Think long-term, not big bang. Guess what I'm trying to say is that the fun in writing/publishing a serial is that you release it slowly. That's just my suggestion though, so in whichever you decide to publish them take it as a learning experience. 

Oh, and chapters are totally okay to do in serials; I've seen some done that way. I don't do chapters for my serials because I already do that in my novels and serials are fun experimentation for me. So I have a season with 6 episodes. The romance serial has 10k episodes, and the fantasy serial has 15-20k episodes. For the romance, I name the "chapters"with something that applies, like..."Poppy and Rouge" or something like that. For the fantasy, I use the first name of the character giving POV in that chapter. I hope that helps.


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## A. S. Warwick (Jan 14, 2011)

Vintage Mari said:


> @A.S. Warwick: Hey, truthfully? I would release the episodes on a schedule. Think long-term, not big bang. Guess what I'm trying to say is that the fun in writing/publishing a serial is that you release it slowly. That's just my suggestion though, so in whichever you decide to publish them take it as a learning experience.


I am planning on a schedule - at the moment I'm trying to get 4-6 books finished so I have a buffer for the schedule should anything happen to slow down the writing output. The theory behind bundling the first 2 was because of the minor cliffhanger that ends 1 and the lesser amount of action in 2 and a worry that it might cause a drop off for the serial. We'll see when I get them up and running.

As for the titles, I have some working titles at the moment; Echo of the Ages: The Crown of Fire Part 1: Shadows of the Raven & Echo of the Ages: The Crown of Fire Pt 2: Song of the Earth. It may make the cover a little crowded when you throw in my name as well. I'll have to think if over between now and the time I approach a cover artist.


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## Antara Mann (Nov 24, 2014)

Vintage Mari said:


> @Antara: If you wrote the piece as a standalone, then my opinion is that it should be released as such. Serials have a different structure than a standalone so if you released it in parts, then it would be like a chopped up novel which wouldn't be fair for the readers. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. Far as having released the first part for free, that's okay. Just put the whole thing out together. Serials have stories within a larger story, like Arabian Nights style.


The story as a unique story arc and the first part which I intend to release for free ends up nicely with no apparent cliffhanger but the reader is pulled into the story and wants to read further. I'll release the whole book too but paid. the question is, should I warn in the book description of the whole book that's it's a standalone with no cliffhanger when I haev in the title and cover the complete seasons 1, 2 &3? yeah, that leads me to my question whether I should haev the season 1 and seasons 1,2 &3 only in the cover or in the title? I have to ask Kboards on a separate thread, probably.
The standalone book has a unique story arc and there are definitely three different parts in it united n one story arc. Hope that helps.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

One week until Episodes 1 and 2 of my serial are published. I'm getting strangely nervous about it all, even though I'm fully prepared for it to make a very minor blip then slide into obscurity. I've had over 70 books published in the past 8 years, and thought I'd long-since lost that anxiety around publication time. I feel much more invested in this with it being my first indie-published thing, though, so I guess that explains the nerves.

I have the first three up for pre-order now, but haven't told anyone. Six pre-orders of Episode 1 and one for Episode 2 so far, which has to be from people stumbling upon it. I feel bad about the people who've pre-ordered, as it's going to be free the day after it goes live.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

I guess I have two quite different serials I'm working on at the moment. The first is a three part 'miniseries'; each ep novella length. First one clocks in around 45,000 words. And I've just decide to fiddle another story I've written into serial form; but this one will be around 5 episodes or so, and much shorter; say 8000 words an ep, maybe. Should get ep 1 of the shorter one up in April.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

So, I'm seriously thinking about getting out of the serials business and getting into the short novels busines...

*Note: If anybody reads the below and thinks it sounds like a bad plan, please let me know. I'm really flying in the dark here*

Yesterday I finished the first draft on book 4 of my main horror serial, and I decided it was time to reevaluate things.

I'm considering taking the first episode and combining it with the second one, which will make for a novel that's around 200 pages. Then I'll take volume 3 and combine it with the upcoming volume 4, for another 160+ page novel. Episode 5 is about halfway done already. It will now become the first section of the third book in an eventual trilogy.

Over the life of my Titan's Song serial, sales have been absent more often than not. I've now officially tried permafree on the first book, and I found that the lack of also-boughts is a real killer. I actually had better follow-through after free-day promotions when I was in KU because the big influx of also-boughts gives you some real organic traction. Another issue with serials is pricing. Charging prices below the 2.99 threshold makes it just about impossible (for me) to make up the cost on many of the more effective promotional options. For example, Facebook ads, which I think might help me out a lot, are pretty much off the table when you're charging less than 2.99 per book, and I just can't bring myself to charge 2.99 for books that are less than 100 pages long.

I'm a little worried about making such a drastic change, but I think now's the right time to do it. Currently my mailing list is very small. There are only about 4000 free copies of the first book out there, and most of those were just freebie collectors who will probably never open it up. Over the life of the series I'll be honest and say that I've sold less than $200.00 worth of all three books combined, so it's not like I've got a real fan-base who are going to be freaked out when they see my catalog is totally different.

I'm not sure that this will make a huge difference in my sales, but I have come to the conclusion that novels are more attractive than shorter works to most readers. There are a few genres and sub-genres that seem to work for really short books, but my novellas are not a natural fit with any of those audiences.

I'll probably keep the title and ASIN of book 1, and just change the content inside. For book 2 (which will include the part I just completed along with the currently released book 3) I'm thinking of publishing it under a new name/asin.

I'll have Amazon send out an email to people who've already downloaded book 1, to let them know there have been drastic changes. Maybe this will inspire some of them to give everything another look. I'll probably offer to send a free copy of the newest book to my meager collection of mailing list people since all of them have already downloaded the old version of book 2 and 3, and I wouldn't want to ask them to pay twice.

This is a really scary thing to do, but I don't want to get in any deeper with a business strategy that I don't think is viable. I could just walk away from this serial altogether since it hasn't performed, but I love the story myself, and I feel some degree of obligation to the fans I've accumulated so far to finish the major arc that I started.

So, it seems like the best thing to do is to take these books, reassemble them, and hope that a trilogy of novels does better than a 5 or 6 episode serial. I know for certain that being able to charge 2.99 will make certain promotional options more viable, as will having the first book off permafree and back in KU, where I can get an influx of also-boughts and drastically increased traction after a promotional push.

Another possibility is to combine the first three books into a single volume, instead of the first two. The reason I might choose to do this is because book 3 has the most satisfying conclusion point. Much better than book 2 or book 4. But that would involve taking on a lot more work trying to get a sequel out that would match that length.

And of course I could always just bundle and leave the separate volumes up . But I think that really changes the reader perception of the work.

GAH! I don't know...

I might still change my mind on all or some of this plan but right now the urge is strong.


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## writerbee (May 10, 2013)

You mentioned KU -- are your serials out of KU now? on AZ only or wide? 
Did you notice a change in sales if/when you went wide? 

WHen you say "volume 4" do you mean part 4 (e.g. an "episode") in an on-going serial? (e.g. Season) 
Or...a collection of serial installments all in one volume? 

I think I'd put parts 1-3 back into KU for now, making sure all of them link to each other and that your newsletter signup is in the front AND back matter. AND linking to Part 4 
Then release your next installments somewhat close together (lot of opinions on ideal spacing --but every 30 days, at least, to take advantage of the Amazon "newness" factor) 

DMac
w/a Victoria Hodge


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

writerbee said:


> You mentioned KU -- are your serials out of KU now? on AZ only or wide?
> Did you notice a change in sales if/when you went wide?
> 
> WHen you say "volume 4" do you mean part 4 (e.g. an "episode") in an on-going serial? (e.g. Season)
> ...


When I say 4, I mean episode 4.

Right now, episodes 2 and 3 are in KU. Episode 1 is wide and permafree, but I just delisted it on the other sites yesterday, because permafree just did not do what I wanted it to do, and I'm ready to go back into KU with everything.

Overnight, I thought things over, calmed down a bit, and decided that it might be better to just bundle. I've actually started the process of putting together an omnibus of the first 3 episodes, and I'm planning to release it simultaneously with the release of episode 4. The reason I chose this is because the first three are basically a complete arc (sort of). There's still a cliffhanger at the end, but the thing that happens changes the story so drastically that's it's basically like the beginning of another story. If I'd chosen to release this as a trilogy of novels instead of a novella serial, episode 3 would be the natural ending point for the first book, but I never really intended it that way. I'm a pantser, so I had no idea this would happen when I started writing. I thought I would do 4 episodes and end the story there, but things just went in a surprising direction, and that's part of the reason I'm freaking out. I have so much more to write than I expected, and I'm going to have to spend a lot of time on a series that's not performing well. I can't bring myself to give up on it, but I might have to release six more episodes (or more, god only knows how many) to get to a decent end point.

My current plan is to title the 3-part bundle like this: *The SHE Chronicles: Titan's Song Omnibus One (Books 1-3)* 
(my episodes are titled She Kills, She Burns, and She Wakes)

With episode 4, which begins the new arc, I'm probably going to use a new titling scheme, and a new cover style, which will lead to another "Chronicles" omnibus.

I figure an omnibus is probably the best compromise, because this way I get two simultaneous new releases on Amazon, I'll finally have a novel-length work to sell. Plus I stay somewhat faithful to my original plan, which will help me avoid upsetting any fans I've managed to gather so far.

Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely like the idea of putting a mailing list signup at the front somewhere on all the books. I've resisted doing that in the past, but I gotta build my mailing list somehow.


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## cleopatraa (Apr 10, 2016)

I did not know this was a thing. You guys gave me something to consider. 

First post!


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## Danielle Kazemi (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi all. I've been away from the board for a while but wanted to ask people who have finished a serial - how did you do it? I'm ending mine soon and wanted to know if it's better to tidy everything up, close up all the loopholes, happily ever afters, the whole shebang or leave it basically open ended? Has anyone ended a serial and then returned to it?


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## RubyMadden (Jun 11, 2014)

Danielle Kazemi said:


> Hi all. I've been away from the board for a while but wanted to ask people who have finished a serial - how did you do it? I'm ending mine soon and wanted to know if it's better to tidy everything up, close up all the loopholes, happily ever afters, the whole shebang or leave it basically open ended? Has anyone ended a serial and then returned to it?


No, I've never returned to an old serial. Be kind to your readers and close everything up. Give them the ending they paid for.


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## Danielle Kazemi (Apr 2, 2011)

RubyMadden said:


> No, I've never returned to an old serial. Be kind to your readers and close everything up. Give them the ending they paid for.


Thanks for the response. It's just going to be hard to say good bye I guess. Probably why I've been putting it off.Definitely will give them a happy ending.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Danielle Kazemi said:


> Hi all. I've been away from the board for a while but wanted to ask people who have finished a serial - how did you do it? I'm ending mine soon and wanted to know if it's better to tidy everything up, close up all the loopholes, happily ever afters, the whole shebang or leave it basically open ended? Has anyone ended a serial and then returned to it?


Depends on the nature of your serial. Mine is focused on superheroes and I went into it with a five-season rough outline. So once I reach the end of season five, all the open loops in the story will be closed. But because of the nature of superhero stories, I can always go back to it in the future. Just because they've saved the world doesn't mean there won't be another threat in the future.


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## tamaraheiner (Apr 23, 2011)

Jacob Stanley said:


> When I say 4, I mean episode 4.
> 
> Right now, episodes 2 and 3 are in KU. Episode 1 is wide and permafree, but I just delisted it on the other sites yesterday, because permafree just did not do what I wanted it to do, and I'm ready to go back into KU with everything.
> 
> ...


Honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I think going permafree without going wide is doing you a disservice. 95% of my sales come from itunes. Not amazon. My first book is free and the follow-through is very very slow--maybe 1%. But it's there and it's continual and I DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE. I'll take that residual income.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

tamaraheiner said:


> Honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I think going permafree without going wide is doing you a disservice. 95% of my sales come from itunes. Not amazon. My first book is free and the follow-through is very very slow--maybe 1%. But it's there and it's continual and I DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE. I'll take that residual income.


You also seem to be the exception to the rule, though. I had all my books wide on all platforms, had the first in series free, and I paid for advertising. Even when I did ads that included other platforms, I couldn't even give away my books. Then I gave up and went all in with KU and in one month, I made more from KU page reads than I'd made in a year on all the other platforms combined.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

tamaraheiner said:


> Honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I think going permafree without going wide is doing you a disservice. 95% of my sales come from itunes. Not amazon. My first book is free and the follow-through is very very slow--maybe 1%. But it's there and it's continual and I DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE. I'll take that residual income.


You may be right. My giveaways on the other platforms were never very high, but I never really made an effort to promote on those platforms either since I was mainly just using them for price matching. And that was probably pretty obvious to readers as well. An author with just a single novella on the platform isn't gonna get a whole lot of attention. But for me the idea of going wide with my whole library is just too scary. I'm such a newb that I barely understand how Amazon works, much less figuring out how to sell books on five different platforms.

I will say that having a permafree allowed me to learn something as a new author. There's been a lot of talk about whether or not free still works. Obviously it does for some. But I never realized the effect losing also-boughts would have on my book. In fact, I didn't know that going free would cause me to lose my also-boughts until after I'd already done it. But even then I didn't realize how important they are for a new author with basically no track record.

I think they serve as a kind of social proof. People see my book in the also-boughts of an author they like, and that gives me a legitimacy that's even better than having a lot of reviews. It increases the chances that they buy my book. It increases the chances that they crack it open and actually try to read it. It increases the chances that they buy the sequels. Also-boughts are the best way to get premium organic traffic. The best way to get readers who convert. Or at least that's my current theory.

Right before I went free, I used one of my last KU free days to do a small promotion with BKnghts. I think I gave away a few hundred copies. It wasn't the best promotion I've done with them or the worst. But I got follow-on sales and pages read that continued for several weeks.

After I went free I did a much bigger promotion, gave away a ton of books, more than I've ever given way before in the whole lifetime of the series, but my follow-on sales were actually about the same (maybe just a little better), and died faster. I think the lack of also-boughts is largely responsible for the weaker legs. That's just a guess, but I can't see any other possible reason for such a huge disparity.


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Nobody high-fived Cleopatraa for her first post? Come on, serial writers!



cleopatraa said:


> I did not know this was a thing. You guys gave me something to consider.
> 
> First post!


Welcome!


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Danielle Kazemi said:


> Hi all. I've been away from the board for a while but wanted to ask people who have finished a serial - how did you do it? I'm ending mine soon and wanted to know if it's better to tidy everything up, close up all the loopholes, happily ever afters, the whole shebang or leave it basically open ended? Has anyone ended a serial and then returned to it?


I ended my serial with a happily ever after for my couple, but left it open for the next serial to follow the next couple. I'm already seeing reviews and getting emails asking when the next one is going to be out.

So if you plan to write more, if you want to write more, go for it. But if you don't know, or are unsure, I'd wrap it up.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Finishing up the final installment of my serial and planning to have it up this week. I'm a few weeks past schedule publishing it (which makes me cringe) but better late than never. I had planned not to do any more serials after this one, even though I've thoroughly enjoyed writing it, but I notice it has really starting to gain traction on Google, which is very encouraging. I may even write another one.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

I'


Fictionista said:


> Finishing up the final installment of my serial and planning to have it up this week. I'm a few weeks past schedule publishing it (which makes me cringe) but better late than never. I had planned not to do any more serials after this one, even though I've thoroughly enjoyed writing it, but I notice it has really starting to gain traction on Google, which is very encouraging. I may even write another one.


I have similar feelings. I have actually started to love the work-flow of writing serials. I get to focus on these small pieces, and publish frequently, but gradually I'm building a really long story. It's addictive.

At the very least, if I switch to novels I'll still treat them during the writing process as a collection of serial episodes. It's just the perfect creative paradigm for the way my brain works.

I've also had some better luck with sales since putting my 1st book back into KU last week, publishing my fourth episode, and my omnibus. I wouldn't exactly say I'm gaining traction but I haven't had a day without a sale or borrow, and the omnibus is definitely attracting more interest right out of the gate than any of the individual episodes did.

Maybe I can keep publishing my episodes and the readers who want to read longer stuff (the majority, I think, at least in my genre) will be happy to wait for the bundles.

edit//



> Nobody high-fived Cleopatraa for her first post? Come on, serial writers!


Whoops!

Welcome Cleopatra!


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

I just wrapped up my series Storm Country with Book 4 released last Friday. Since each book is novel length, I covered a lot of territory in the series, so I now need to move on. As much as I love my characters, I don't want an open ended story that never ends. Because I'm having trouble getting traction, I have Book 1 on a Kindle Countdown this week. I can't say it's going gangbusters, though. All I really hope to achieve with this promotion is visibility and reviews. And breaking even on my investment would be nice.

And a high-five to Cleopatraa for joining the thread.


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## Fictionista (Sep 14, 2012)

Jacob Stanley said:


> I'
> I have similar feelings. I have actually started to love the work-flow of writing serials. I get to focus on these small pieces, and publish frequently, but gradually I'm building a really long story. It's addictive.
> 
> At the very least, if I switch to novels I'll still treat them during the writing process as a collection of serial episodes. It's just the perfect creative paradigm for the way my brain works.
> ...


I concur. I appreciate being able to work my serial in spurts while working on my larger works, specifically the last novel in my 4-book series (published at the end of March). I have since started a new series while finishing up the last installment of my serial in between. I love the idea of juggling more than one project at a time and find that the shorter nature of serials enables me to make great progress on those while also working on my longer novels, while publishing more frequently.

I think I'll keep serials as part of my writing repertoire, but only under the new pen name. No reason why I can't have the best of both worlds.


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## Danielle Kazemi (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi Cleopatra. Looking forward to seeing what your serial is going to be about.

I'm wondering if there are any serial newsletters being sent out? I know a lot of people like to refer to them as seasons (like TV) and I guess I was wondering if anyone sends out something with a bunch of serials just released? Kinda like a TV channel.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Welcome, Cleopatra! 
My serial is on hold until I can finish the second book in my series. 
I'm hoping if I get dictation software I'll be able to get back into it quicker than I anticipated.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Random question on book numbering on KDP: Has anyone tried numbering installments 1, 2, 3, etc and then putting an omnibus and numbering it say, 99? Would it still show up on the series page under the series title?


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

P.J. Post said:


> Good question.
> 
> I'll be dealing with this in the next few months. I'm calling mine _blah blah, "the novel"_ or some such, my question is should it even be grouped with episodes on the series page or kept separate, and if it should be on the same page, then yeah, how does it get numbered? Will the "Volume Field" accept #100?


I tried creating a separate series just for omnibuses, but it added a weird additional parenthetical subtitle.

My actual omnibus title is:

*The SHE Chronicles: Titan's Song Omnibus One (Books 1-4) *

When I created a separate series Amazon added it to the title like this:

*The SHE Chronicles: Titan's Song Omnibus One (Books 1-4) (Titan's Song Omnibus Collections)
*
Which looked really awkward.

I actually don't have one of those "Books in this series" pages, and I'm not sure how to get one. Emailed KDP about it and never got a reply.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

P.J. Post said:


> Good question.
> 
> I'll be dealing with this in the next few months. I'm calling mine _blah blah, "the novel"_ or some such, my question is should it even be grouped with episodes on the series page or kept separate, and if it should be on the same page, then yeah, how does it get numbered? Will the "Volume Field" accept #100?


I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. But even if you label it as an omnibus or season or whatever, it will still have that number beside it on the series page. So from an aesthetic standpoint it looks kind of messy and there is the chance that some readers might get confused about it. They'll see that number and then wonder, "what happened to everything between book whatever and book 100? Where are those titles?"

I created a separate series for my collections and I called it Vanguard: The Collected Seasons. Each of my seasons is titled Vanguard: The Complete XX Season. So it shows up like this:

Vanguard: The Complete First Season (Vanguard: The Collected Seasons)


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Jacob Stanley (May 25, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. But even if you label it as an omnibus or season or whatever, it will still have that number beside it on the series page. So from an aesthetic standpoint it looks kind of messy and there is the chance that some readers might get confused about it. They'll see that number and then wonder, "what happened to everything between book whatever and book 100? Where are those titles?"
> 
> I created a separate series for my collections and I called it Vanguard: The Collected Seasons. Each of my seasons is titled Vanguard: The Complete XX Season. So it shows up like this:
> 
> *Vanguard: The Complete First Season (Vanguard: The Collected Seasons)*


This is why I probably should've embraced the "season" thing. Sounds way better.


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

tamaraheiner said:


> Honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I think going permafree without going wide is doing you a disservice. 95% of my sales come from itunes. Not amazon. My first book is free and the follow-through is very very slow--maybe 1%. But it's there and it's continual and I DON'T EVEN ADVERTISE. I'll take that residual income.


I want some of your readers, Tamara. Seriously. Where did you find them?

So far I've only sold one book in the Fairy Senses series wide (it was on Kobo), despite the fact that I have permafree short stories that link to it. I'm kind of worried that even making the first book free won't do anything.

Did you do anything to kickstart yours' visibility? Or did it just happen on its own when you made the first book permafree?


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

Just finished Episode 5 of my serial! One more to go...


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## PhilipColgate (Feb 11, 2016)

Hello Fellow serial writers!  Both of my books under this pen are episode 1s to serials.  Does anyone approach Episode 1s as pilots as in TV?  In other words, if it tanks (maybe if, say, they first 2 or 3 tank), do you ever scrap the whole thing and unpublish so it doesn't appear incomplete?  Just curious.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I wouldn't recommend that because you might be giving up too early. There are two types of serial readers: those who read each episode as it drops and those who wait until the season compilations come out. So by quitting before you put out that compilation, you could be sacrificing a large potential audience.

Plus, I write each season before the first episode is even released. So there's no reason not to release all the episodes in a season.


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## barryjhutchison (Feb 21, 2016)

Just had to chime in today to say I've just this second finished the final episode of my sci-fi horror serial, THE BUG! 

Well, the final episode of Season One, at least. great feeling, though


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## Sailor Stone (Feb 23, 2015)

Thoughts much appreciated on whether this would work or not:
A year and a half ago I wrote my first novel of a three part trilogy and released it. It has a cliff hanger ending. For a first time try at publishing a book it did okay. I've sold a few hundred copies between the ebook and print versions. I received good reviews on it except for the readers who don't like the cliff hanger ending with no follow up book available to read. From there I realized just how much I don't know about being a writer and publisher and so I began to educate myself and I pulled back from writing the second and third books of the trilogy and wrote books in other genres. I have the book in KU and it still gets read and I keep getting readers wanting to know when I will finish the series. I'm 90 percent finished (85k words) with the second book and I am also actively writing three other works that are demanding of my writing time.
I've made many mistakes in the last year as a writer but I feel I am getting closer to "getting it" from what I read here on the Boards and I don't want to do something I'll regret later. 
So, my question (you thought I'd never get to it!) is, would it be wise to take the second and third installments of this series and make it a serial and release it in smaller segments with cliffhangers? I would be able to release four of them a month a part and then add the other installments about every 30 to 45 days? As I work on one writing project over several days and then move to another work in progress and then to another and then back to the first, it seems like I could manage to do it and enjoy it at the same time. 
Another question, is having as the first in the serial a 100k word book a good thing or a bad thing? I'd hope it would really bring the reader into serial as a committed reader.
This is for a Coming of Age Thriller and I would keep all of this in KU.
Please feel free to eviscerate the above idea if it so moves you. I can always make readers continue to wait; I just feel like I owe them something after all of this time. 
Thanks.


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## J. M. Clearwater (Dec 11, 2015)

Hi, all. I just wanted to introduce myself and say how glad I am I just found this thread. I'm adapting/editing a serial from a collaborative storytelling project that I've participated in over the past six years with some writer/role-player friends of mine, which we'll be releasing under a shared pen name. I just stumbled onto this thread and have been catching up on it bit by bit and finding tons of helpful info, so much gratitude to those of you who have contributed here (and apologies if I ask any questions that have been answered before. There's a lot to get through!).

Our project could best be classed as urban fantasy, though it bucks some of the common genre tropes of the moment in that it's not exactly urban (it is, in fact, set in a quirky beach resort town) and is third-person multi-protagonist with both male and female leads. Target demo is tabletop RP geeks and Buffyverse fans, Gen X and younger. It's got joke-a-minute dialogue and a found-family focus along the lines of BTVS, and there are lots of nerdtastic references that readers will hopefully enjoy (the natural result of a bunch of geeky, sarcastic RP lovers creating a story world together).

I'm wrapping up Episode 1 now, and it's shaping up to be between 20k to 25k in word count. Subsequent episodes may run shorter (or longer, as B and C plots get layered in; I'm not sure yet). I had a roughly 16-episode season plotted out, but after doing some reading around here I've concluded that that's probably nuts and am working to halve that into two eight-episode seasons. I'd like to start out trying a wide release strategy rather than going all in with KU, since my prior experience self-publishing _*cough*_totallynoterotica_*cough*_ has led me to believe that there's a pretty strong nerd/pulp-reader contingent on some of the non-Amazon retailers who might just pick up what we're laying down.

I want to release biweekly, but that might be slightly ambitious given that I also work full time, so it could end up being more like monthly until I can afford to scale back my contracting work (hopefully/maybe/someday/pipe dream). For pricing, I want to do permafree for the first episode, and then I'm thinking $1.99 for Ep. 2 and $2.99 for the rest (perhaps after a limited-time 99-cent release period).

Anyway, I thought I'd just lay all that out there and welcome any feedback people may have on my approach. I'm hoping to launch around the end of this month--sooner, if the winds be fair and the gods kind--and I'd be endlessly grateful for any success tips people are willing to share in advance of the release.

Also, I'm curious just how profitable serials can be, since I haven't found much mention of that in the thread so far. Little poll: Who's doing it just for the love of it? Earning a healthy side income? Anyone out there do this full time?

Thanks in advance to those who take the time to read and respond. I'll be sure to update frequently with any helpful data/experiences I happen to accumulate as the serial comes together, in effort to return the favor.


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## Nikko (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey guys! Love this thread - so much valuable information.

I have a question for you all:

I'm planning on writing a few serials, all within the same world. Each 'season' will have about 6 episodes, but the seasons aren't continuations of the same story. Each 'season' will be a different legend, each legend part of the history of a current book series I'm writing. It's all set within the same world.

It will look something like this:

Histories of Shaeyara
Legend of Thyreik: 1,2,3,4,5,6
Legend of Moryea: 1,2,3,4,5,6
etc...

My question is: HOW should I categorise and classify them on Kindle? What should be the series name, what should be a subtitle.. 

Any help is greatly appreciated!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Wow, missed a bunch, so this'll be a long reply to these questions.



Sailor Stone said:


> So, my question (you thought I'd never get to it!) is, would it be wise to take the second and third installments of this series and make it a serial and release it in smaller segments with cliffhangers? I would be able to release four of them a month a part and then add the other installments about every 30 to 45 days? As I work on one writing project over several days and then move to another work in progress and then to another and then back to the first, it seems like I could manage to do it and enjoy it at the same time.
> Another question, is having as the first in the serial a 100k word book a good thing or a bad thing? I'd hope it would really bring the reader into serial as a committed reader.


I don't think that would be a good idea at all. The thing about serials is that they have a structure all their own. Splitting up a novel and calling it a serial will only make readers feel like you're trying to squeeze them out of more money, and reviewers have been merciless towards serials that are just chopped up novels.

And you've already set the expectation for this being a series of novels with the first installment. I recommend once you finish the second book, get it out there and immediately start working on the third.



J. M. Clearwater said:


> I'm wrapping up Episode 1 now, and it's shaping up to be between 20k to 25k in word count. Subsequent episodes may run shorter (or longer, as B and C plots get layered in; I'm not sure yet). I had a roughly 16-episode season plotted out, but after doing some reading around here I've concluded that that's probably nuts and am working to halve that into two eight-episode seasons. I'd like to start out trying a wide release strategy rather than going all in with KU, since my prior experience self-publishing _*cough*_totallynoterotica_*cough*_ has led me to believe that there's a pretty strong nerd/pulp-reader contingent on some of the non-Amazon retailers who might just pick up what we're laying down.
> 
> I want to release biweekly, but that might be slightly ambitious given that I also work full time, so it could end up being more like monthly until I can afford to scale back my contracting work (hopefully/maybe/someday/pipe dream). For pricing, I want to do permafree for the first episode, and then I'm thinking $1.99 for Ep. 2 and $2.99 for the rest (perhaps after a limited-time 99-cent release period).
> 
> ...


I don't recommend going wide over Select. There are always exceptions, but even if there's a big nerd contingent on the non-Amazon platforms, they still have to be able to find your book. And discoverability on those other platforms is still pretty broken. Select gives you more tools to help you gain that crucial initial traction, such as the free days, countdown deals, ads, and the rankings boost you get whenever someone borrows your book. It also gives KU subscribers less reason to pass up on your book. Getting a reader to buy a book by an unknown author in this increasingly competitive marketplace is very difficult. But getting a reader to borrow a book by an unknown author that won't cost them anything but time is a much easier sell.

Should also add that I am a pulp writer and in one month, I now make more money from KU page reads alone than I made on all the other platforms combined over the course of four years.

For the release schedule, I recommend finishing your entire season in advance and then you can release as often as you want. It really takes a lot of the pressure off if you do it that way.



NMHowell said:


> Hey guys! Love this thread - so much valuable information.
> 
> I have a question for you all:
> 
> ...


Hmm, that's a tough one, because the titles are so long that they get a bit unwieldy. There are two ways you can do this.

Method 1

Series: Histories of Shaeyara
Title: Legend of Thyreik - Episode 1 (or episode title)

The downside with this is that for the series page, the books will be numbered. So Legend of Moryea Episode 1 would be the title of the first book of that season, but on Amazon's series page, it would be Volume 7.

Method 2

Series: Legend of Thyreik
Title: Legend of Thyreik - Episode 1 (or episode title)
Subtitle: Histories of Shaeyara

The benefit of this is that each season would have its own series, with the subtitle linking them altogether. The downside is that they won't share a series page.

Personally, I recommend Method 2. I think it's a bit more clean and as long as your back-matter links everything together and you have a unifying Histories of Shaeyara look and unifying cover scheme, the lack of having everything on the same series page won't hurt you.


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## Nikko (Jun 17, 2016)

Awesome, thank you so much for your feedback. I think I'll stick with Method 2 - seems simple.


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## Nikko (Jun 17, 2016)

Another question! I just spent a few hours reading through a bunch of this thread... made it about half way through, and then gave up. So I apologize if this has been discusses.

If you have your serial episodes in KU, are you allowed to put the omnibus versions wide? and/or vise versa?

Once I find this out, I'd love feedback on my launch schedule for my fantasy serial.  (but I'll wait to hear back about this first)


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

NMHowell said:


> If you have your serial episodes in KU, are you allowed to put the omnibus versions wide? and/or vise versa?


No, you can't do that. KDP Select mandates that no more than something like 10% of the content be digitally published anywhere else. And since KU payments changed from a flat rate to page rate, there wouldn't really be any benefit to making the omnibus wide but keeping the episodes in KU.


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## Zaitsev (Feb 21, 2016)

I'm plotting a serial under one of my pen names. 15 -- 20k per episode, 6 episodes per season. All priced at $0.99.

I'll write season one before I release the first book and then put up an episode every week. I'm a very fast writer, but like the idea of getting the serial sorted so I can go back to working on my series under another pen name -- don't want too much of a 'gap' there, in terms of releases.

Sorry if I missed this on the thread, but *how do serials go with promo sites -- they will take them? Do you use paid promo sites or does that work out too expensive for serials*?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

It depends on the promo site. I know for example that Bookbub won't accept single episodes because they're not full-length novels, but they will accept box sets of episodes. The cheaper promo sites that allow you to submit with little to no reviews generally don't seem to mind. When I still had single episodes, I promoted the first episode of Vanguard through bknights on Fiverr several times without issue.

Whether it's too expensive or not really depends on you and your budget. For bknights, I bought about $15 worth of services to promote a free episode after I had a few more episodes available. Some people will balk at the idea of spending $5 on a promo, while others won't think twice about spending $200.


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## Zaitsev (Feb 21, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> It depends on the promo site. I know for example that Bookbub won't accept single episodes because they're not full-length novels, but they will accept box sets of episodes. The cheaper promo sites that allow you to submit with little to no reviews generally don't seem to mind. When I still had single episodes, I promoted the first episode of Vanguard through bknights on Fiverr several times without issue.
> 
> Whether it's too expensive or not really depends on you and your budget. For bknights, I bought about $15 worth of services to promote a free episode after I had a few more episodes available. Some people will balk at the idea of spending $5 on a promo, while others won't think twice about spending $200.


Thanks. $5 I can do. I'm thinking of putting two episodes up within days of each other -- in time for a promo. I reckon just the one being up would put readers off. Have them in KU and do a free day for the first one. How did your serial go, if you don't mind me asking. You didn't use a different pen name?


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

My serial didn't go too well. After three seasons of fifteen episodes in total, I decided to scrap the episode format and only release in season compilations. I took down all the individual episodes and only have the season compilations up. The upcoming fourth and fifth seasons will also only be released in season formats, no more individual episodes. 

All my stuff is published under the same name.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

How's all the serial writers doing? Any recent successes, or heaven forbid, flops? Is the format struggling? Could it be better applied in a different way or elsewhere? Does it perform better in KU or Wide?

Some things to discuss while I ponder future outlines for serials, I guess.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I've personally given up on the serial format. Just doesn't seem to work for the superhero genre. I've switched to only releasing season sets for these last two seasons. Once the fifth season is out, I'll retire the series, possibly come back to it or the world later, but with novels instead of serials.

I don't think any of the big storefronts are really set up for serials right now. If Amazon opened up the Kindle Serial platform to us, then that might be a different story. But it seems to me serials might work out better with some kind of subscription model, like Patreon or Chanillo.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

Do you think Serials still work for other genres? I'm unfamiliar with the Kindle Serial platform. I've never heard of it. 

I considered Patreon recently, and I even made an account in anticipation for later to have serials supplement my main series. I think that may provide a successful model. What is the suggested length and layout of a serial (words per episode/episodes per season, etc.)?

Chanillo looks like an interesting site indeed.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

LucasCWheeler said:


> Do you think Serials still work for other genres?


I can't really speak to that, I haven't really tried or researched serials in other genres.



> I'm unfamiliar with the Kindle Serial platform. I've never heard of it.


Most people haven't. It's something Amazon started and hasn't really done much with. Seems to mostly be chopped up novels and there's no way indies can really get into it unless they get invited: https://www.amazon.com/b?node=5044445011



> I considered Patreon recently, and I even made an account in anticipation for later to have serials supplement my main series. I think that may provide a successful model. What is the suggested length and layout of a serial (words per episode/episodes per season, etc.)?


There's no real answer to that. Serial episodes vary in length from 10K-50K, seasons tend to be 5-6 episodes.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

Well, thanks for answering anyways.  Best of luck with your future works!


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## Maysun (Jun 1, 2012)

Hello, 

I've been reading through this thread for the past week, and I wanted to thank you all for all the information you've shared. It will come in handy for the new YA college romance serial 'The Sunshine Time' that I will be publishing soon.  Season 1 contains 30 episodes of 10,000 plus words. Let's see how it goes.

Thanks again.


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## A.C. Nixon (Apr 21, 2011)

Since this thread has revived, I thought I'd chime in. For me, serials was a bust. However, I believe the fault was entirely mine. Had I to do it over, I would have written and edited the entire series prior to publishing. However, it was a great learning experience for me. I published regularly, which kept my name visible, and built a relationship with my editor.


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## LucasCWheeler (Feb 19, 2015)

A.C. Nixon said:


> Since this thread has revived, I thought I'd chime in. For me, serials was a bust. However, I believe the fault was entirely mine. Had I to do it over, I would have written and edited the entire series prior to publishing. However, it was a great learning experience for me. I published regularly, which kept my name visible, and built a relationship with my editor.


It's interesting to hear about all types of experiences. Do you think you would be up for serials again on a different platform, be it Channillo, Patreon, or even your own website? If anything, it might work to be a good promotional tool if not profitable.



Maysun said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been reading through this thread for the past week, and I wanted to thank you all for all the information you've shared. It will come in handy for the new YA college romance serial 'The Sunshine Time' that I will be publishing soon. Season 1 contains 30 episodes of 10,000 plus words. Let's see how it goes.
> 
> Thanks again.


Good luck!  Let us know how it goes.


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## neriggs (Jun 13, 2016)

So I wrote a serial story, which is intended to be read in an episodic manner. However, the episodes (or chapters or whatever they should be called) vary in length, between 4,000 to 10,000 words. As such, I have been debating. Should I release one chapter at a time, which is how I think the story would be best read, or should I put it out on 50,000 word novels? For what it's worth, the entire thing clocks in at about 950,000 words, so that's a crazy ton of episodes but only 19 novels if they average 50,000 words.

For shorter chapters, I could combine stuff to try and keep a more regular length. I already did that with the 50,000 word chapter.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

neriggs said:


> So I wrote a serial story, which is intended to be read in an episodic manner. However, the episodes (or chapters or whatever they should be called) vary in length, between 4,000 to 10,000 words. As such, I have been debating. Should I release one chapter at a time, which is how I think the story would be best read, or should I put it out on 50,000 word novels? For what it's worth, the entire thing clocks in at about 950,000 words, so that's a crazy ton of episodes but only 19 novels if they average 50,000 words.
> 
> For shorter chapters, I could combine stuff to try and keep a more regular length. I already did that with the 50,000 word chapter.


Depends on the structure. Episodes are different from chapters as they have a structure to them--their own beginning, middle, and end. There's no rule, but episode length should be pretty consistent and I'd recommend a minimum of 10,000 words. It's easier to go longer than shorter. If your episodes are usually 10K and you have one that's 15K, that's a bonus (unless you charge more for it). But if your episodes are usually 10K and you give them a 4K episode at the same price, readers might feel ripped off.

You might be better off going the novel route, though. Serials are a really tough sale and unless you really love the format or are really curious to try it, your books will probably have better success as novels.


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## neriggs (Jun 13, 2016)

Perry Constantine said:


> You might be better off going the novel route, though. Serials are a really tough sale and unless you really love the format or are really curious to try it, your books will probably have better success as novels.


Yeah, that's why I've been debating how to put it out. If I did write it episodically, I suppose I could also put multiple chapters into novel-length works? That would really be the only thing long enough to make any sort of profit, too. I don't expect success either way, after the utter failure that is my first series of books. I thought maybe the frequent update schedule of a serial might help make the difference? As I've heard people can only be successful if they publish crazy frequently, i.e., multiple books a month.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

neriggs said:


> Yeah, that's why I've been debating how to put it out. If I did write it episodically, I suppose I could also put multiple chapters into novel-length works? That would really be the only thing long enough to make any sort of profit, too. I don't expect success either way, after the utter failure that is my first series of books. I thought maybe the frequent update schedule of a serial might help make the difference? As I've heard people can only be successful if they publish crazy frequently, i.e., multiple books a month.


I've noticed there's been a lot of exaggeration lately in some threads, so to clear the air a little bit, the idea that you can only be successful if you publish multiple books a month is pure bullcrap. Even people I know who are crazy successful don't publish multiple books a month. Multiple books a *year*, yes. But not a month.

The more frequently you can publish, the more you increase your chances for success. It doesn't mean you can't be successful if you don't put out many books a year. And things like genre expectations and your book's positioning need to be taken into consideration. If you're writing fantasy for example, the expectation is longer books. So even if you had a weekly fantasy serial, it might not mean much because fantasy readers expect long works. But if you're writing romance, those readers might be more open to a serial.


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## A.C. Nixon (Apr 21, 2011)

LucasCWheeler said:


> It's interesting to hear about all types of experiences. Do you think you would be up for serials again on a different platform, be it Channillo, Patreon, or even your own website? If anything, it might work to be a good promotional tool if not profitable.
> 
> Good luck!  Let us know how it goes.
> 
> ...


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## Eric T Knight (Feb 23, 2015)

Hi All!

I just found this thread and read a few pages and I have a question. Someone may have asked it before and in that case I freely give you permission to throw rocks at me, but I simply don't have the time to read a thread this big. (Hopefully eventually tho.)

I'm doing something that seems different from what I've read here and I'm wondering if anyone else is doing it and what experiences they've had.

I'm putting up about five installments/chapters/whatever a week on my blog. Each chapter runs from 800-1200 words. (I hear so much from people about how busy they are and so my plan is to feed them regular, bite-sized chunks on a steady basis. I know when I look at a blog post that is several thousand words I often think, uh, maybe later, but if it's shorter...) Short paragraphs. Lots of white space for ease of reading. A different picture for each post.

The idea is to shoot for about 75k words, then release the whole thing as a short novel and start the next book in the series (or in the case of this book, it will probably be book 2, since the story has grown a bit since I started.)

After finishing a 5-book fantasy series that was a ton of work, I wanted to do something fast and fun and challenging. Writing such short chapters challenges me to embrace brevity. It also forces me to view the whole story differently. No more slow buildups. Each chapter something has to happen. Each chapter needs to get a point where it can end with a grabber that makes you want the next.

I have to say, I'm really loving it. It's teaching me how to write much more sparsely and quickly, things that I think are important in our busy world. I'm also never more than 2 chapters ahead and so there's the thrill of building this house of cards in front of an audience while wondering if the whole thing will just fall apart at some point.

So, is anyone else doing something similar? If so, please point me to your blog. I want to see what you're doing.

If you're interested: It's an action/thriller/adventure type story (think Indiana Jones crossed with The Mummy-Brendan Fraser movie). It's set in the Old West, told in first-person present tense by a half-Apache gunslinger/swashbuckler hero. It's kind of an homage to old pulp fiction novels. The point is to have fun with it. I'm throwing in every trope, mashing in historical characters from a 50-year period, from Wyatt Earp to Billy the Kid (think Penny Dreadful). There's train robberies, gun fights, cursed Aztec treasure, the whole bit.

See chapter one here. https://erictknight.wordpress.com/2016/09/14/the-aztec-curse/

Thanks!


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## J. B. Cantwell (Mar 26, 2014)

Hi all,
I've looked at this thread from time to time as I've worked on my YA serial. Most people who post I check out the books in their sig to see where it's landing in the Amazon ranking. I'm not seeing a lot better than 100,000, and this worries me. 

Are there people out there who are making "real" money on their serials? Let's say more than $1000 a month?

My serial is almost done, so I expect it to drop either early December or early January. They are 20K episodes and I plan to have six of them (four are done). 

I'm legitimately interested in finding out how the rankings can be so low, but people are still talking about making decent money. Is that because you're books are wide?


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Eric T Knight said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I just found this thread and read a few pages and I have a question. Someone may have asked it before and in that case I freely give you permission to throw rocks at me, but I simply don't have the time to read a thread this big. (Hopefully eventually tho.)
> 
> ...


Hey sounds like you're shooting for exactly the same thing I am. And like you, I got burned out on novel length fiction and much enjoy fast paced novella length stuff now. I'm aiming for around 40k per book. Also I'm doing 2 main story novella's in each book (complete episodes beginning-middle-end) with side and back stories to flesh out the characters and universe to make 40k. You can find my stuff at http://www.oncegiants.com The genre is Sci-fi cyberpunk action.

I'm hoping short reads that 'feel' like a novel will be the ticket. i.e. I'm not writing a novel chopped up or a meandering serial. Would love to know if anyone else has explored anything similar.


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## Eric T Knight (Feb 23, 2015)

> Hey sounds like you're shooting for exactly the same thing I am. And like you, I got burned out on novel length fiction and much enjoy fast paced novella length stuff now. I'm aiming for around 40k per book. Also I'm doing 2 main story novella's in each book (complete episodes beginning-middle-end) with side and back stories to flesh out the characters and universe to make 40k. You can find my stuff at http://www.oncegiants.com The genre is Sci-fi cyberpunk action.
> 
> I'm hoping short reads that 'feel' like a novel will be the ticket. i.e. I'm not writing a novel chopped up or a meandering serial. Would love to know if anyone else has explored anything similar.


Well, I just read the first chapter and I liked it. I think you've got something there.

I'm curious to see how it works out as you're doing something I'd not considered. It sounds like each novella is the equivalent of an hour-long TV show. Is that about right? With the side and back stories there to flesh out the characters? Are you planning on having an overall story arc that the novellas move along, sort of like a TV series, which has a new villain for each season?


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## jsm (Jun 27, 2015)

Hello

I'm actually about to release something similar in the noir / crime / thriller genre. I have five 'episodes' that are each about 50k words, or about 200 pages, which make up the first 'season' of a larger series. The episodes are not self-contained, but each season will be a complete story. I'm hoping that releasing a serial with episodes that are closer to novellas or short novels in length will overcome some of the challenges others have had with the serial format. Plus it will give me lots of ways to promote them (permafree book #1, use book #2 as a reader magnet for mailing list signups, etc.).


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Eric T Knight said:


> Well, I just read the first chapter and I liked it. I think you've got something there.
> 
> I'm curious to see how it works out as you're doing something I'd not considered. It sounds like each novella is the equivalent of an hour-long TV show. Is that about right? With the side and back stories there to flesh out the characters? Are you planning on having an overall story arc that the novellas move along, sort of like a TV series, which has a new villain for each season?


Hey Eric. Thanks for checking out the site! You're right each novella is like a TV episode. Self contained 'plot of the week' sort of thing. But the novellas do progress forward with an overall story arc that will reach a climax at the end of the season. The closest thing I can relate it to is Japanese TV anime series. The novellas will be the meat of the books, but we're hoping the shorts will come across as added value to enhance the experience. I'm working with a writing partner and we have the stories of the two main characters running concurrently in the same world. The goal is to build the universe and then be able to just shoot out novella sized adventures every couple of months once we build an audience.

I'm just starting out though, so the following is small. Looks like you've got a pretty decent following going yourself. How long have you been posting it as a serial?


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## Joyce DeBacco (Apr 24, 2010)

I've also done something similar. My 4 book Storm Country series has approximately 43,000 words in each book. But to be honest, the only time any of my books sell is when I promote them. But if someone should stumble across them and purchase the first one, they usually follow through with the rest of the series, which is encouraging.

I might add that the story is serialized with a cliffhanger at the end of the first three books, but there's still a resolution to the current dilemma the characters are facing.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

Joyce DeBacco said:


> I've also done something similar. My 4 book Storm Country series has approximately 43,000 words in each book. But to be honest, the only time any of my books sell is when I promote them. But if someone should stumble across them and purchase the first one, they usually follow through with the rest of the series, which is encouraging.
> 
> I might add that the story is serialized with a cliffhanger at the end of the first three books, but there's still a resolution to the current dilemma the characters are facing.


Hi Joyce,

I'm worried about that outcome as well. Right now our plan is to release the first novella 15k words for free/99 cents and then inside is a reader magnet(for email list signup) to a backstory for the main character 15k words. Then we have 4 books of 40k lined up after that for sale at hopefully 2.99. Our stuff is fairly niche (I think) so we're not expecting huge numbers, but enough to make back development costs and keep the process going would be nice.


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## Eric T Knight (Feb 23, 2015)

> I'm actually about to release something similar in the noir / crime / thriller genre. I have five 'episodes' that are each about 50k words, or about 200 pages, which make up the first 'season' of a larger series. The episodes are not self-contained, but each season will be a complete story. I'm hoping that releasing a serial with episodes that are closer to novellas or short novels in length will overcome some of the challenges others have had with the serial format. Plus it will give me lots of ways to promote them (permafree book #1, use book #2 as a reader magnet for mailing list signups, etc.).


Interesting. If I understand you right, the first 'season' will be 250k words. That's a pretty substantial season.

It's been a while since I read parts of this thread. What other challenges are you talking about specifically?

I like your ideas about promoting them. I'm going to keep them in mind.


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## jsm (Jun 27, 2015)

Eric T Knight said:


> Interesting. If I understand you right, the first 'season' will be 250k words. That's a pretty substantial season.
> 
> It's been a while since I read parts of this thread. What other challenges are you talking about specifically?
> 
> I like your ideas about promoting them. I'm going to keep them in mind.


Yeah, it's a beast. That was part of the motivation for breaking it up, since 1,000 pages seems like a considerably long book for that genre.

It's been a while since I've been through the thread myself, but I seem to remember people mentioning problems with releasing shorter works of around 10k per episode. Most of the larger promo sites won't accept shorter books in that range, leaving you with limited options for promotion.

Plus I think most people tend to charge around .99 for something of that length, whereas with episodes that are around 50k I'm planning to charge 2.99 per episode (with #1 as a permafree lead-in). To me the higher price point seems justified with something that long.

Not sure if the strategy will work, but since it seems like the best fit for the book I'm willing to give it a try.


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## Eric T Knight (Feb 23, 2015)

Well, keep me updated on how it works and I'll do the same for you. (I get the auto emails when there are replies to this thread so even if it's months from now)


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## Shaun Dowdall (Mar 8, 2013)

Just curious to see how people were getting on with their serials? I've almost finished my first 6 episodes which gives me my first season. Just need to think of the best pricing and promo strategy next!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Shaun Dowdall said:


> Just curious to see how people were getting on with their serials? I've almost finished my first 6 episodes which gives me my first season. Just need to think of the best pricing and promo strategy next!


I got the first three installments of my weird western out along with an omnibus, and have the next six installments plotted out, but sales haven't supporting continuing it. But, I'm planning to get new covers for the series later this year and will likely relaunch with a couple new installments and see what happens. I have a different novel-length trilogy about to wrap and a new novel series to write in the meantime. I think writing slightly longer works, say 50k words and up, is a better route to take, for a variety of reasons.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Shaun Dowdall said:


> Just curious to see how people were getting on with their serials? I've almost finished my first 6 episodes which gives me my first season. Just need to think of the best pricing and promo strategy next!


I gave up on the serial format. It was fun to write in, but just not lucrative enough to keep up. Maybe in the future if the tide changes, I'll try again.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Eugene Kirk (Oct 21, 2016)

I'm still working at it. I have a lot of material to go through before I call it quits. The 3rd book out of 9 is coming out this Friday so that will be an indicator of interest. So far it has been so-so, i think, but I'm also still working our how to advertise effectively. Since my launch on May 8th, with 2 books out, I've earned about 350 bucks with paying way more than that in promos and advertising. I'm hoping it will get better.


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