# To the discouraged



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

There've been a few posts lately from people going through tough times with their writing. The market has been tightening, especially since KU shook things up. Sales are sparse and in some cases non-existent. We've poured enormous blocks of capital, both human and financial, at something we're passionate about. But for some it isn't paying off.

Yet.

Every bad cover you put out there, every three star book, every marketing misstep is also a lesson. It's tempting to see Holly or Hugh and you think of yourself as a small fish. Every third poster has like eight covers in their signature. It's daunting.

But take a moment to consider this as former you, the wide eyed kid that wanted to be a real writer and publish real books. Imagine how impressed they would be that you have actually published something. How many friends or family would kill to hold a copy of their own book?

Do you have even a single review from someone you don't know? That person read something _you_ wrote and liked it enough that they took the time to tell other readers about it.

If you tried to break into traditional publishing from any time before 2009 you remember how rough it was, and how desperately you wanted even one person to feel something from one of your stories. If only you could reach them.

That's exactly what you've done. If you haven't published or haven't gotten that review _you will_. It's all a matter of perseverance. We all want to give up sometimes. Some of us have, in my case for many years. But we always come back, because we have no choice.

We're writers. We keep writing.


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## Hope (Nov 28, 2014)

Thank you.  Seriously, thank you!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I was just about to say something like this, only different 

I was like this last year. Selling less than 100 books a month, and well aware that that's still considered a lot by some, so I didn't feel I had the right to complain, and didn't really want to complain either. I chose to be a writer. 

November is a tough month. "People" say it gets better, but mostly it just gets worse.

Late November last year I threw a hissy fit and flung my worst-reviewed but best-selling book at Boobkbub. They'd never take it with 3.5 stars, wouldn't they? 

Well, actually, they did. So don't let"stuff people say" deter you from doing things.

On the other hand, the mantra on the KB is "don't give up". Well, if writing makes you miserable and makes you a dreadful person to be around, and you're having no success, you absolutely should give up. You family doesn't deserve to live with a terribly grumpy person. Find something that gives you joy. Come back to writing later. Or not. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Writing gives me joy. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably never have a bestseller, and am frankly not interested in chasing butterflies (yeah, I did all the study the bestsellers stuff, blah, blah. It just doesn't work for everyone). I have a plan to write some later volumes in series and I have ideas for new things. I love writing.

I consistently make $1000 a month even though my Amazon rankings are beyond shit. Because I sell shit on Amazon. I sell a little bit everywhere, but most on Kobo. I've loved KU for my short stories. I have borrows on stories that never sold a single copy in the time that I did list them on Amazon. What is more, my best-borrowed story feeds straight into a novel was kinda dead in the water because it's a standalone. 

Prawns unite!


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## Eric S. Kim (Oct 22, 2014)

I always like to feel optimistic even when sales for my book are nowhere to be found as of yet. I don't like being a quitter, so I'm staying as a writer for the rest of my life. I always tell myself "_the power of imagination makes us infinite_." Those a John Muir's own words and they've stayed with me ever since I started brainstorming and typing every single sentence on a Word document.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

Thank you for posting this Chris! I'm a hugger, so *big hug* to anyone who needs one.


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## Doril (Nov 2, 2013)

Thank you so much for this post.  I needed it. This would be a great thread for people to post their success stories as well. That would be very motivating.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Thank you for this. I really needed to see something positive tonight!


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## Julz (Oct 30, 2014)

Oh this makes me happy and hopeful  Thank you!


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## Daphne (May 27, 2010)

In the same vein - I recently made this to put on my laptop:


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## chele (Jun 5, 2013)

Thank you.

from one of the discouraged.


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

Well said, Chris and Patti. I'm feeling pretty discouraged at the moment, my prawns are more like shrimps...


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## crow.bar.beer (Oct 20, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> November is a tough month. "People" say it gets better, but mostly it just gets worse.


Interesting, I never knew that. I started publishing this month and so far made $10, which was really exciting but so so far from where I want to get. It's a nice thought to know it's a slower month on top of everything else.


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## John Donlan (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm a card-carrying member of the often discouraged club. It's hard to stay motivated, really hard. The thing that keeps me going in the long run, is my love of the craft. Even if I never sold a single copy, I don't think I could stop writing. Until recently, all the writing I did was for myself anyway.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Great post. We can all do with a reminder and a little perspective from time to time.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> On the other hand, the mantra on the KB is "don't give up". Well, if writing makes you miserable and makes you a dreadful person to be around, and you're having no success, you absolutely should give up. You family doesn't deserve to live with a terribly grumpy person. Find something that gives you joy. Come back to writing later. Or not. It's nothing to be ashamed of.


What Patty said. Writing -- and especially writing in today's world of self-publishing -- isn't for everybody. It's hard, often lonely, and then you have to drop the artistic part of you and look at your work like the business it is. There's so much to keep up with, and it changes so quickly, that learning how to publish is a job in itself.

And the thing about November. November used to be where you saw an uptick from the "summer slump". Now it seems we won't see a rise in sales until after the new Kindles and other devices are unwrapped. And maybe not even then, because we have no data to go on.

I see those "I made $10K last month, going to make twice that" or whatever, and I feel a little sick. I'd love $10K a _year_! But I give myself a shake and keep on working. I might make that someday. Might not. Likely not. But I don't need huge amounts of money so I'll be happy to just sell regularly.

And remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Hello! I think my little success story might be relevant here, simply because I am still a tiny prawn, but very happy with what I have achieved. I was going to save most of this info for when I hit my two year mile stone, but it seems right to post it here.

I am possibly one of those people who have 8 books in their signature and looks like they know what they are doing. I do feel quite knowledgeable because I've been doing this for nearly two years now. *But less than two years ago I had nothing (publishing wise) and I knew nothing.*

Then I got a Kindle for Christmas and my life changed.

But it changed _slowly, really really slowly_. It was more a mental change than anything.

Through my kindle I read a book, at the end of the book the author pointed to a book they had written on publishing to kindle, so I bought it. Three months later, in March 2013, I published The Flirting Games (in my signature).

My books are novellas. I am a stay at home mum with a toddler and a bump and a very busy husband. So I can't make a huge amount of time to write. I mainly write at 11pm at night, for an hour or two, when everyone else is in bed. I try to do that 3 - 4 nights a week. So that is writing time of perhaps 5 hours a week (and the occasional morning when my Mum can take my toddler for a couple of hours). My books are about 25k - 35k words each, and each one takes about three months.

And all that time I was learning. I learned that I'd rushed book one out too quickly, I learned about flushing out a series, I learned about other platforms, and paperbacks. I learned about website hosting, about book bloggers, about goodreads and Wattpad, about promotional sites and wastes of money. I learned about editors and book cover designers and I came here almost every day, even for just five minutes over coffee while Peppa Pig was on tv. And I soaked up the knowledge. I am still doing this! Still checking in most days, still reading everything, still learning all the time.

But! I haven't slacked off. I put out my second book, More Flirting Games, three months later, and so on.

My finances didn't suddenly leap into mega money, they still haven't and they probably never will unless I get a very lucky break (I won't hold my breath). But it has accumulated slowly.

I've always been really cautious about posting figures because I learned early to be wary. But for the sake of this thread I'm going to throw caution to the wind and be an open book. (Deep breath!) I didn't break £100 a month until I had three books out. Then it suddenly jumped to £300 a month. After that it seems that every book I put out (and don't forget they are only novellas) makes me almost exactly another £100 a month, every month. So with 8 books, I consistently make about £800 a month. I've yet to break £1000 (though I guess I am breaking it in $). But I'm thrilled with that.

£800 a month makes a really nice extra income for our family. It has taken over two years - that is true! But _only doing a few hours a week_, far less hours than a part time job and now I make more than I would in a part time job. I have another book coming out soon, hopefully that will increase my monthly income to £900 a month and so on, which means by the time I publish book 10, in February, I should be (fingers and toes crossed) bringing in £1,000 a month!!
There are good months and bad months, but after two years and eight books, it's levelling out to a fair measure of consistency.

I'm writing all this to show those of you starting out, exactly what can be achieved with a few hours a week and some long term goals.
I am NOT a big fish, or a big earner, but I do have a string of books to my name now, and I get fan emails every week, some of which are really touching, and I feel like I'm the real deal.* I am now a writer, a published author, it's what I do.* I get to tell people, I put it down on relevant paperwork, I file tax returns for it, and best of all, I pay some of our bills, I contribute to our mortgage, I provide the spending money for our holiday 

_Phew! Stella crawls back under her rock and hopes none of this honesty bites her in the bum!_


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## ElenaLinville (Aug 15, 2014)

Thank you so much for this post! I am one of those small fish. I only have a short story published in an anthology and it made me enough to buy a cup of coffee so far (in over 6 months). It can be discouraging if you look at it that way.

But then I shake myself and say, "Hey, you HAVE a story published! People actually bought this anthology and read it. How cool is that?" And I feel 100% better.


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## Howietzer (Apr 18, 2012)

Good for you Evenstar, thanks for sharing.

Great post OP! Keep on truckin'


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Awesome story, Evenstar! Congratulations.


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## Chrissy (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks for sharing Evenstar!    And Congrats!  

Wishing you much more good luck and great sales!


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## Elizabeth Barone (May 6, 2013)

Thanks, Chris. I know I needed to see this!

Hang in there, everyone. This is a tough business... but we're doing it. I think that in and of itself is amazing.


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## EthanRussellErway (Nov 17, 2011)

One way to stay encouraged is to celebrate small victories and milestones.  Oftentimes, we focus too much on our defeats, or those things we perceive as defeats.

Never be afraid to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, learn from your mistakes, and keep fighting!  If you do these things, then even your failures can be counted as part of your success.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

It was you who prompted me to write it, FictionFugitive. I hope it helped you and some of the other lurkers here. Together we're a pretty powerful community, and I love that we so consistently lift each other up. So different from most industries, which are completely cut throat.


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## storyteller (Feb 3, 2014)

Stella, you provided some healthy inspiration to this fellow housewife with small children who can barely find time to write.  Thanks for posting your story!


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## Stewart Matthews (Nov 21, 2014)

Everything is a learning experience.


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## Marcella (Mar 22, 2013)

Thank you for posting this.  Very encouraging!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Hutchinson said:


> Stella, you provided some healthy inspiration to this fellow housewife with small children who can barely find time to write. Thanks for posting your story!


I'm glad. I just hoped I put this in the right place and didnt hijack the tenet of this thread. I just thought I might be able to add some positives to the process. It is long, or it was for me, and it is easy to get discouraged, especially in the early days when you don't have many books and it seems like you are invisible. But if you are in it for the long term, and accept that it is a marathon and not a sprint, and you come here all the time and really listen and LEARN, then eventually you will see the effort pay off a little (or a lot if you are very very lucky!)


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## Nadine LaForet (Oct 7, 2014)

Thank youfor this post and Evenstar for your honest and encouraging story. 

I was feeling particularly down yesterday and this string came along and really helped me adjust my perspective and breathe a bit more deeply. 

It's all good.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

I've been pretty discouraged myself the last few months. I moved, a big one -- all the way from Oregon to Texas -- and a lot of the money I'd normally spend on book promotions went to the move. The rest went to my new book cover (see below). Accordingly, I've had almost zilch to put toward promos and my sales have tanked. Seriously, abysmally tanked. I'm shocked at how swiftly my numbers dropped. I was making a (somewhat meager, but still) living off of writing, but now, if things don't improve, I'm going to have to look for work. Yikes!

I'm channeling all available money into one big push for my new series, "The Atomic Sea", and if that doesn't get something going I'm going to be despondent. It's a worthy series, in my unbiased opinion, and deserves to get out there and stretch its legs, get seen and be noticed. Strut a little.

My fingers are crossed.

Oh, and here's the cover I spent so much on:


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

Stella, it was really good (and encouraging) to hear your story. It reminds one to keep going.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Stella, I'd agree. Thanks for sharing your success. This is absolutely the place for it.


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## J.J. Thompson (Aug 10, 2013)

Great post! I needed some encouragement, what with the Zon screwing up my payments and all. I think my greatest pleasure is being able to say (to a few people) that I'm a writer. It's a rush, for sure.


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## saf (Oct 7, 2014)

jackconnerbooks said:


> I've been pretty discouraged myself the last few months. I moved, a big one -- all the way from Oregon to Texas -- and a lot of the money I'd normally spend on book promotions went to the move. The rest went to my new book cover (see below). Accordingly, I've had almost zilch to put toward promos and my sales have tanked. Seriously, abysmally tanked. I'm shocked at how swiftly my numbers dropped. I was making a (somewhat meager, but still) living off of writing, but now, if things don't improve, I'm going to have to look for work. Yikes!
> 
> I'm channeling all available money into one big push for my new series, "The Atomic Sea", and if that doesn't get something going I'm going to be despondent. It's a worthy series, in my unbiased opinion, and deserves to get out there and stretch its legs, get seen and be noticed. Strut a little.
> 
> ...


Well I'd say the cover money was well spent. That's definitely your best looking and most professional looking cover! Good luck on the sales!


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

This is a fabulous thread.  Thank you for posting it.  I don't even have anything completed yet (over 11 WIP but I can't seem to get happy with any of them) and sometimes it is just overwhelming.  While the big money posts are inspiring too, I'm pretty sure I will be more of a scoot-scrawl-walker than a leaping-tall-buildings-in-the-first-month publisher.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

elizabethbarone said:


> Thanks, Chris. I know I needed to see this!
> 
> Hang in there, everyone. This is a tough business... but we're doing it. I think that in and of itself is amazing.


Yes, it is! We should focus on our accomplishments (like, I don't know, that we actually wrote (and published) a book or two or ten)!


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## Jason Eric Pryor (Jan 30, 2013)

Great thread! I really liked the part about realizing that, if someone you don't know left a good review of your book, you've done a great job and should be proud. Let's face it. We are all of a small group of people. We're published writers. Heck, even if you've written a book and it's not published yet, that's an accomplishment most will never achieve. I'll admit that I sometimes read good reviews left on my books to remind me that my writing is making other people happy. That's usually the kick in the pants I need to keep going.


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## S.R. Booth (Oct 6, 2013)

I love posts like this! Thank you, all of you who've added to it. Writing a book and actually having it published is an amazing accomplishment in itself. Congratulations to all who've made it this far!!


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> I was just about to say something like this, only different
> 
> Writing gives me joy. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably never have a bestseller, and am frankly not interested in chasing butterflies (yeah, I did all the study the bestsellers stuff, blah, blah. It just doesn't work for everyone). I have a plan to write some later volumes in series and I have ideas for new things. I love writing.


My goal when I wrote the 1st book in the series was to have ONE person read my work. That was all I needed to prove to myself that I could and should keep writing. I write for the love of writing. I'm not the best out there and I know I have lots of areas to improve in, but if I give a few hours of enjoyment with my plots and characters, then I think "job well done." With each work I hope to improve and sell more, God willing.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> ...the mantra on the KB is "don't give up".
> 
> Well, if writing makes you miserable and makes you a dreadful person to be around, and you're having no success, you absolutely should give up. Your family doesn't deserve to live with a terribly grumpy person.
> 
> Find something that gives you joy. Come back to writing later. Or not. It's nothing to be ashamed of.


Amen.


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## rjspears (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks for the post.  I alternate between discouraged and frustrated to hopeful and determined.

I had always wanted to be a writer, but let life get in the way.  I dabbled at it, writing short stories and playing with a novel that took me eight years to finish.  (It's still in a drawer.)  I decided to have fun with writing, broke from my preferred, genre and just went for for something new and different.  Fun, even.  I wrote a dozen or so short stories and got them placed on website to build some credibility and to gain some writing chops.  I wrote a novella in 2013 and released it on a lark.  Then I started a novella that blossomed into a novel.  The next thing I knew a small published contacted me and asked if I had anything that they might interested in.  They took the novel and ran with it.

I'm 6 books into my career now and have a 7th one in process.  Things are happening, just more slowly than I would like, but they are happening.

On the frustrating side, I still have yet to sell all that well.  I was really hoping that I'd be on a higher level by now, but I keep at it.  I'm not expecting to get rich, but I barely breaking even and I do my own covers and eformatting.  

Here's what I tell myself:  No one asked you to be a writer.  No one cared about your books before you wrote them.  No one asked you write them a book  This is all about you.  If you want, you have to do it.  

I told my wife that I really feel like I'm a writer first (even though my full-time job pays 99.9999% of our living expenses).  I think "I'm a writer."  Maybe that will have to be good enough.  At least for now, because I don't feel that I can quit.  It's in my blood.  Three days in a row without writing is like three days without water.  I just have to do it.  Even if it's a hundred words a day (I average 700-800 words a day), I have to write.  

So, I go with hopeful and determined and let that carry me.  Maybe some day, some money will come.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

jackconnerbooks said:


> Oh, and here's the cover I spent so much on:


Holy hell, that cover rocks.


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

First of all, thank you for creating this thread, OP. 
Whenever anyone gets discouraged, I imagine they are like I was back in September after doing my promotions for my permafree and then seeing almost no activity at all with Book 1 AND struggling so badly with Book 2 that I almost gave it all up.
But then, right around when I FINALLY published Book 2, and started promoting Book 1 as a way to get some boost in the rankings and get the links to Book 2 out there in the world, something started to happen...
It seemed as though a few people had gotten around to finishing the permafee, maybe. Or possibly they bought Book 1 during November and read it and decided to buy Book 2, I don't really know. But suddenly, those follow-through sales that everyone that had insisted really do happen...started happening.
There are fits and starts. 
Sometimes there's no telling what will come next with changing Amazon algorithms or an emerging Google Play (which causes a dip in my Amazon ranks, since the permafree downloads start getting split up between them and Amazon and B&N, but so be it). But if I hadn't published at all, no one would be downloading my permafree, no one would get to see the world I am creating with my words. And knowing that even a few people are enjoying what I wrote makes this worthwhile.


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## JRHolmes (Mar 6, 2014)

Hey, way back when before Misty (Mercedes) Lackey turned pro, she determined that she needed a backlist of about 10 novels before she could reliably quit the day job. It doesn't look like that has really changed since then and is something to look at when building your career. Yes, you may get lucky sooner, but that's a good benchmark to work toward.


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

Sweet Amber said:


> Interesting, I never knew that. I started publishing this month and so far made $10, which was really exciting but so so far from where I want to get. It's a nice thought to know it's a slower month on top of everything else.


So I have to wonder, WHY is November a bad month? When do people buy books to fill up all those lovely new Kindles they get for Christmas? January?


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

jackconnerbooks said:


>


I want to frame that and hang it on my wall!


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

bobbic said:


> So I have to wonder, WHY is November a bad month? When do people buy books to fill up all those lovely new Kindles they get for Christmas? January?


The best month is January.

People have new devices. People have time to read now that all the Christmas/end of year/end of school/family crap is out of the way.


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> The best month is January.
> 
> People have new devices. People have time to read now that all the Christmas/end of year/end of school/family crap is out of the way.


I'm looking forward to it! November was my best month so far, thanks to a new book release and a lot (for me) of promoting.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> If you tried to break into traditional publishing from any time before 2009 you remember how rough it was, and how desperately you wanted even one person to feel something from one of your stories. If only you could reach them.
> 
> That's exactly what you've done. If you haven't published or haven't gotten that review _you will_. It's all a matter of perseverance. We all want to give up sometimes. Some of us have, in my case for many years. But we always come back, because we have no choice.
> 
> We're writers. We keep writing.


This is so true. I went to school for film and spent four years writing screenplays. None of them have been read by more than a dozen people. The odds that any will be made into films is insanely low.

I did a five day free promo and over 1000 people downloaded a copy of my book. Even if only 10 percent of them read it, that's still so many times more readers than I've ever had.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

SB James said:


> I'm looking forward to it! November was my best month so far, thanks to a new book release and a lot (for me) of promoting.


So am I! November is my _only_ month so far. If January is any better I will be a happy man.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

jackconnerbooks said:


> Oh, and here's the cover I spent so much on:


Jack, this cover is stunning. So much detail gone into it, the only sad thing is that in thumb nail size a lot of the smaller elements are lost so you don't get the true measure of it. But I would definitely say it was worth whatever you spent!


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Lovely thread. Great to hear success stories like Stella's - well done, you!

I'm one of the discouraged. Not to give up writing (once a writer, always a writer) but to hope that I might one day make a living out of it and pack in the soul-sucking day job. 

To those of us harbouring the same hope, keep plugging away. If you make it, you'll deserve it.


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## Morgan Jameson (Sep 16, 2014)

Great thread - love the cover too - and I just bought it!    My book has been out a little over a month, and I haven't done much to promote it - just started a 99 cent promo today though. I have sold about 20 Kindle copies and about 20 hard copies, through a pre-order I did on a forum I've been a long-time member on, and a few off Amazon - so 40 books total? What's been most rewarding to me are the reviews and comments I've gotten from readers. Somehow that makes it all worth it. I'm going to get serious about marketing after New Year's. 

I asked my father when I was a kid how I would know when I found my 'thing' - the work that makes you happiest in life. He told me that it'd be the thing that you'd do anyway, whether you were getting paid or not. I think THAT is the thing to remember. Do you love what you do? Keep doing it.


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## Brian Drake (May 22, 2010)

In a post a few months back, I expressed my similar discouragement to what has been described here, but after releasing my latest book, things have picked up. For some reason, the new book, which is not related to my series, has picked up a lot of interest. Not huge numbers, but steady numbers, that have created residual sales for my other titles. My goal this year was to earn $200 in royalties; it will actually be closer to $300, so 2014 will be my best year since 2010.


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## jackconnerbooks (Nov 18, 2014)

>>Jack, this cover is stunning. So much detail gone into it, the only sad thing is that in thumb nail size a lot of the smaller elements are lost so you don't get the true measure of it. But I would definitely say it was worth whatever you spent!

Thanks! Yeah, I love the cover, too, and it is a shame that it doesn't work as well as a thumbnail. The artist did some variations for me for Part Two, Three, etc., and some of those are zoomed in a little, like the one below for Part Two. Maybe I should ask her to do the same for Part One. ?


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> The best month is January.
> 
> People have new devices. People have time to read now that all the Christmas/end of year/end of school/family crap is out of the way.


Ah, then I'll look forward to it.  My best month so far was October, then the first half of November, then zilch.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Excellent post and thread. What we have to remember is that we're building a _business_. It takes _time, hard work, and patience._

When I first started, I heard that it often takes two years to really get going. So, I kept that in mind. I didn't expect to earn anything for two years after publishing my first novel in Nov 2012. My first goal was for my royalties to pay for book stuff so that it didn't come out of my pocket. Then I wanted to earn enough to pay for good promotions.

My main focus was on building my back list. I heard so many successful indies saying: when you do get discovered, you want to have a large back list for your new readers. That was my goal for this year. I wanted to publish 12 titles, and with 11 for the year so far I might just make that. I should, in fact. Barring another family emergency. I didn't publish a _novel _every month. Most are novels, yes. In the 60-80k word range. But I also published a couple of shorts, a novella, and a box set.

All of this while working a very time consuming job. I've been getting up at about 4am six days a week for about two years. It hasn't been glorious, and neither were my sales for the majority of the time.

In late October this year, I hit the top 100 free list for the first time. I went from less than 5 sales a day to 20-30. I was thrilled. Then last Friday I set Gone free and Pixel of Ink picked it up. All I can say is: Oh-my-goodness! I am SO GLAD I have a full back list for all these new readers. It's paid off.

My advice: Know what you're working toward, listen to the successful indies, set reasonable goals, and dream big. Make sacrifices and take risks. Appreciate your fans and help other authors. Avoid silly debates and spend your time listening to writing/publishing podcasts. Keep writing, and keep improving. Relish every victory. Take tons of screenshots. Have fun. When you're not having fun, re-evaluate your goals and keep threads like this bookmarked so you can go back to them.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Stacy, did you contact Pixel of Ink or they found Gone on their own?


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

Very inspiring post.


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## kyokominamino (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks for the kind words. I really needed to hear it. I'm slipping into depression because my book sales are plummeting into nothingness and my 26th birthday is Wednesday and I'm pretty sure I'm going to have another existential crisis about the current state of my life, so it's good to see encouraging words from someone who's been writing for a while. I hope the storm passes soon. I miss the sun.


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## Colorwheel (Nov 21, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> Do you have even a single review from someone you don't know? That person read something _you_ wrote and liked it enough that they took the time to tell other readers about it.
> 
> &#8230;
> 
> That's exactly what you've done. If you haven't published or haven't gotten that review _you will_. It's all a matter of perseverance. We all want to give up sometimes. Some of us have, in my case for many years. But we always come back, because we have no choice.


Nope. I don't know how to tell them that their pity buys/reviews are poisoning my well and against TOS, because they feel bad for me and want to help. So not everyone Makes It.

HOWEVER, the important thing, IMO, is to have a good attitude about others' success. Envy if you must ("I wish I had that"), but don't be jealous ("You shouldn't have that, I should"). Those in the long tail can still cheer on the successful people. Everyone has a place in the ecosystem.


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

I don't sell tons of books and my income stream could best be described as laughable. From time to time I read of writers that sell a lot right out of the gate. That's not me. I read of writers selling a lot after the 3rd of a series goes live. So far, that's not me. I read of writers that just keep plugging away in hopes of doing better. That is me.

*But here's the good part.* Publishing my first book hit my personal list of top accomplishments. Making my first sale to a total stranger was exhilarating. Holding my first paperback in my own two hands was a thrill. Reading good reviews is invigorating. Seeing multiple covers in my KB signature is satisfying. I love writing. In my eyes, all this makes me a success.

I'm slow but, as I said above, I just keep plugging away. Maybe someday I'll be one of those fairy tale stories. Somehow I doubt it, but I will write more and I will see my sales gradually increase. Yes, I have frustrating days. But discouraged? Never! Remember: in my eyes, I am a success.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Chris Fox said:


> Stacy, did you contact Pixel of Ink or they found Gone on their own?


They just featured it. They're not taking submissions right now.


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## MM3313 (Dec 2, 2014)

Great, great post, and so many good replies.  As someone new to the board (and on target to start publishing my own work in early 2015), it's very encoraging to see the amount of support that is readily given.  I'm certain that over the coming months I'll be leaning on that support pretty heavily


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Stacy Claflin said:


> They just featured it. They're not taking submissions right now.


Good to know! I'm hearing the name more and more on Kboards.


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks, Chris. I needed that.


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## Jennifer R P (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm definitely having one of those discouraged days.

I sold 3 copies of Mother on launch day. So far those are my only copies sold.

I have two reviews from bloggers I sent copies to, both of which were solid. I was featured on another blog yesterday. None of these things have given me a sale.

Nope. Not even one. My cover is fantastic. I believe my blurb is good. But nothing I do marketing-wise is above zero conversion. I'm honestly out of ideas for stuff to do...I'm starting to wonder if people are looking at it, seeing first in a series and going "Nah. I don't trust this obscure author to actually finish it."

Or...wonder what's going on, because I know I'm doing what I need to do, it's just not working. So, yeah, I need all the encouragement now not to descend into writer's despair. Hearing that November sucks is helping a tiny bit, but not much.

And paid ads are not an option for me right now.


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## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Awesome, Chris


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Jennifer R P said:


> I'm definitely having one of those discouraged days.
> 
> I sold 3 copies of Mother on launch day. So far those are my only copies sold.
> 
> ...


You might want to play with your keywords, Jennifer. You're in post-apocalyptic scifi, which is incredibly competitive. If you can get into a category where you can place in the top 100 you're far more likely to see some sales. Just a thought. Book looks interesting and I just bought it =)


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

Jennifer R P said:


> I'm definitely having one of those discouraged days.
> 
> I sold 3 copies of Mother on launch day. So far those are my only copies sold.
> 
> ...


Jennifer, I think it's harder to get sales if your books/stories aren't part of a series. I've certainly learned that with mine. I have a series of short mystery stories and one novella set in the same town, with some of the same people, and they sell a few here and there. But I suspect that some of the same people buy all of them.

I imagine it's harder to turn science fiction into a series, but have you thought of doing that?


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## Jennifer R P (Oct 19, 2012)

Bobbi, this one IS part of a series .


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## Kessie Carroll (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm not sure how many copies I moved over this past year, but I've made about 40 bucks this year. I also released two novels and a novella, and I'm noticing my sales increase a little the more books I write. It's pretty exciting. I'll eventually hit something people want to read--right now I'm trying YA urban fantasy, but I'm also working on some sweet shifter romances, and a paranormal romance trilogy is in the works. For my first year of being published, I'm pretty happy and excited. If I can get another three books out next year, maybe I can double my income to 80 bucks! :-D


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## dmburnett (Feb 4, 2011)

I've been at this since 2010 and EVERY year November and December are awful for me...I also know that August will be awful because it's always been awful. That said, it is still discouraging. The point about reviews is true. If someone you didn't know posted a positive review of your work, go back and read that review a few (or one hundred) times. It might just give you the optimism to write one more chapter, one more page, or even one more word...And try to hold out until January when people are using those new Kindles and using the gift cards they got for Christmas.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

My income has dropped around 70% in the last few months, and what with Christmas, tax, birthdays and everything else happening in December, it's a really bad time to be losing money. 

But I refuse to give up. 

Writing is tough when you're feeling a bit defeated, but all I can do is keep keeping on. I know I need to work harder, but I find I'm just not a fast or consistently fast writer. My books tend to take time and I have to work around that. 

Even though I've hit the first bump in my career I still feel lucky. I've got a Bookbub today so I'm crossing all fingers and toes that it goes well. 

We all knew we were in for a rough ride when we started this. Let's hold on tight and continue to help each other through it.


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

kyokominamino said:


> Thanks for the kind words. I really needed to hear it. I'm slipping into depression because my book sales are plummeting into nothingness and my 26th birthday is Wednesday


Happy birthday, Kyoko! Hope you have a good day! Maybe January book sales will be better for ALL of us!


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Hutchinson said:


> i don't know how to fix what is making my short stories not sell or get borrows. and when i try to ask in threads or comment to threads, i am a thread killa or get no responses/replies. if i can't figure out how to get feedback on a discussion forum for writing, i guess i can't ever make a go of writing. i clearly am one of those people who isn't good enough to make money self publishing and i guess that's my current takeaway. i don't know what i'll do about the increased writing i've been doing. oh well.


Short stories are not an easy sell at the best of times. And yours haven't been out for very long. I think I sold fifteen copies my first month, when I also had four short stories out, and that was with a bit of a boost from a trad-published friend via her blog.

Plus, your stories seem to be literary rather than genre fiction, which again limits interest, because self-published literary fiction doesn't sell very well at any length. My literary stories only sell a handful of copies each, while genre short fiction sells much better.

Is there a genre you enjoy and think you could write? Then maybe give it a try. The good thing about short fiction is that you can experiment, because the time investment isn't all that great.

I'd also redo your blurbs. They're a bit vague and bland. Maybe post a "Help me with my blurbs" post here at KB.

You could also try submitting one of your stories to one of the few short story review blogs for a bit of exposure. Short Story Symposium, run by KBoarder Alain Gomez is one and there used to be a few others. Or do an author interview, if there's a call for interviewees. You probably won't see a lot of direct sales effect, but you'll get your name and stories out there.

Otherwise, short fiction really is a numbers game. Individual short stories rarely sell all that well, but together they add up. Here is a blog post from Dean Wesley Smith that many short fiction writers have found inspirational. Not everybody agrees with his method and you should take any writing and publishing advice with a grain of salt anyway, but maybe it will be helpful for you.


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## The world would be prettier with more zebra strip (Apr 20, 2011)

I have not consented to the new Terms of Service, which were implemented without any announcement and without the ability to accept or reject them. My continued participation on the forum is related only to addressing this issue and cannot be construed as implied consent.  9/21/2018


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## kyokominamino (Jan 23, 2014)

bobbic said:


> Happy birthday, Kyoko! Hope you have a good day! Maybe January book sales will be better for ALL of us!


Thank you! Me too. Fingers crossed.


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

Daphne said:


> In the same vein - I recently made this to put on my laptop:


Now I have two things above my writing desk:
1. ART is NOT a democracy (A George R. R. Martin quote to remind me not to change things already in print under pressure of a few dissenters when I have way more fans that love my story) 
and now 2. Keep calm and carry on writing!


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

TheCasualCalifornian said:


> I always like to feel optimistic even when sales for my book are nowhere to be found as of yet. I don't like being a quitter, so I'm staying as a writer for the rest of my life. I always tell myself "_the power of imagination makes us infinite_." Those a John Muir's own words and they've stayed with me ever since I started brainstorming and typing every single sentence on a Word document.


That's a nice thought. So am I (a writer until dead), whether I like it or not.


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

If I get discouraged it's mostly because so many indies indicate you have to be prolific. They seem to manage ten novels a year somehow, which is something I can't even imagine, even if they are only novellas. Since I have a career and can't write full-time, I take four years for each novel. That's three years for carefully writing until I'm happy with it and another year of editing and polishing until I feel it's as perfect as I can currently make it. In a few years I can retire and hopefully write faster, but I still doubt I'll be able to do more than a novel per year. If the indie world truly won't work for someone as slow at writing as me then it will be a long, tough slog.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

To sell books you need to market your books, not just write more books...


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

thewitt said:


> To sell books you need to market your books, not just write more books...


Mind. Blown.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

sarahdalton said:


> Mind. Blown.


I was giving real advice, not just being a sarcastic ****


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

sarahdalton said:


> Mind. Blown.


My monitor almost ended up with coffee all over it. Thanks!


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

Thewitt - I'm sorry. It was meant to be lighthearted, as your post came across as a little patronising in this particular thread. I see you didn't take it in that way, and am sorry, as well as curious as to what bad word I was called. Stick around, gauge the tone of the board. Most of us already know a lot about marketing. Bygones.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> I was just about to say something like this, only different
> 
> I was like this last year. Selling less than 100 books a month, and well aware that that's still considered a lot by some, so I didn't feel I had the right to complain, and didn't really want to complain either. I chose to be a writer.
> 
> ...


Patty what got you out of the hump and into the $1000 range? series? fantasy genre? interested


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## BG (Mar 19, 2014)

kyokominamino said:


> Thank you! Me too. Fingers crossed.


I think your covers are really interesting and I'm looking forward to reading your work. Happy B-day when it comes, too!

Thanks to the OP for starting a great thread!.

Season's Greetings!


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm suffering from a certain amount of existential angst right now. So much has happened this fall, but I have a deadline for both my writing group and with my editor, so I've been pushing on - hey, professionals don't just write when they feel like it! but I can't help but feel that this latest collection doesn't have the whimsy that I like including, that it's preachy, that the writing will sound forced (well, and it was forced - I wrote whether I felt like it or not, no matter how tired I was, or stressed). I know I've got editing to do, and one more story to finish up for this collection  - my longest one yet - but I don't know if even editing can salvage the stories. I've only written one story that I like, and it's not for this collection - same universe, but geared toward a younger audience than the rest of this collection is, so it's not really appropriate to include it.

Well, writer's group is tomorrow, and we'll be reviewing the first half of the collection (WG is limited to 10,000 words per discussion).  I look back on some of my earlier work, and just sigh. This collection is pushing a number of my limits, and I may have just hit my creative wall.


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## kyokominamino (Jan 23, 2014)

David Sloma said:


> I think your covers are really interesting and I'm looking forward to reading your work. Happy B-day when it comes, too!
> 
> Thanks to the OP for starting a great thread!.
> 
> Season's Greetings!


Thank you!


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

Ted Cross said:


> If I get discouraged it's mostly because so many indies indicate you have to be prolific. They seem to manage ten novels a year somehow, which is something I can't even imagine, even if they are only novellas. Since I have a career and can't write full-time, I take four years for each novel. That's three years for carefully writing until I'm happy with it and another year of editing and polishing until I feel it's as perfect as I can currently make it. In a few years I can retire and hopefully write faster, but I still doubt I'll be able to do more than a novel per year. If the indie world truly won't work for someone as slow at writing as me then it will be a long, tough slog.


Yeah, this is worrisome to me, too. That's the reason I burned out on my previous non-fiction writing career--the push to get more out faster. I think if anything, this is the issue that will send a lot of authors out to find other jobs. Not everybody has the time or energy to publish a new book every month.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

I write fast, but I don't want to write a book a month forever. I want to hit something that will last me a few months to relax.

I think what works for people is different. I was able to sell more because I wrote more, not promote. I almost never promote. I hate it with a passion. I make up for that with writing more. You do what works for _you_.

I also think writing is _*definitely*_ a mental game. You can do what you _*think*_ you can do. Many people say they are too busy to write more, or they can't concentrate, or any number of reasons. Okay, that's fine. But you can also change your belief.

When I started, I was working full time. I was publishing my own works and a few other author's works. I was going to college full time, and my kids were small, and I was a single mom. I was still writing because I hated my job so much. Of course, I also had migraines a lot. What I'm saying is you have at least a little time. You just don't believe you do or that you can't use it effectively. Change the way you approach writing, and above all make goals and meet them.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

bobbic said:


> Yeah, this is worrisome to me, too. That's the reason I burned out on my previous non-fiction writing career--the push to get more out faster. I think if anything, this is the issue that will send a lot of authors out to find other jobs. Not everybody has the time or energy to publish a new book every month.


I think that authors should go at the pace that turns out the best writing. If they are capable of one book a year right now, then they should do that. With time and practice they'll get faster. Along the way they'll build up a backlist.

I've gotten faster and can handle two books a year, but even if I didn't have a day job I doubt I'll ever do more than three. I'm a little in awe of the people like Dean Wesley Smith. That's some hard core discipline right there.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

My books are doing fine. I can live off my writing income, but I'm still feeling a little discouraged.

I recently got a one-star review. The person said my newest release was more of the same, and I kind of agree with them. 

Most of my fans will still love it, but it's just a rehash of my previous books. Like a greatest hits album with a few new tracks. 

I have one more novella due out soon. I'm hitting publish and then taking a much-needed vacation. I've written 17 novellas (between 8 to 10k words) in the last 6 months. I'm tired...


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> My books are doing fine. I can live off my writing income, but I'm still feeling a little discouraged.
> 
> Most of my fans will still love it, but it's just a rehash of my previous books. Like a greatest hits album with a few new tracks.


I felt like that after almost a decade of writing romance. It wasn't just what I was writing but what my fans were demanding. Yes, demanding. They wanted more of the same, and I had enough! So I switched genres. I try, but I can barely make myself go back. Do what's best for you and take a break if you want. Readers forget this is work not a walk in the park.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Mizuki said:


> I felt like that after almost a decade of writing romance. It wasn't just what I was writing but what my fans were demanding. Yes, demanding. They wanted more of the same, and I had enough! So I switched genres. I try, but I can barely make myself go back. Do what's best for you and take a break if you want. Readers forget this is work not a walk in the park.


Thanks! I'm going to let this pen name rest and work on something else 

It's funny the reviewer complained, but I know I'll also get complaints if I go in a completely different direction while writing under that name.


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## Drake (Apr 30, 2014)

That's a great post, thanks for the encouragement!


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2014)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> Thanks! I'm going to let this pen name rest and work on something else
> 
> It's funny the reviewer complained, but I know I'll also get complaints if I go in a completely different direction while writing under that name.


Yup, they probably will still complain. If it's radically different, maybe try a new name. You can let them know it's you or not. I'm struggling with that right now. What if my fans are old ladies, and I decide to write some gritty stuff?  I don't know what to do. Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't. Lol.


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## Kenson (Dec 8, 2014)

If I may, at the risk of being a little self-indulgent, I'll tell you my story.

I wrote a book 25 years ago.  I don't know why.  I'd heard or read somewhere that everybody has one book in them.  So I wrote a story in a genre that I liked and that I thought my kids would like.  And I tried to publish it.  Well 25 years ago you didn't have much choice other than the traditional publishing route and everyone of them slammed the traditional door in my face.  So I thought, well I like the story, my family like the story, I don't care if the rest of the world doesn't like the story and I left it at that.

I retired and for my 65th birthday, my kids got hold of a copy of the manuscript, pushed it through lulu.com and presented me with a bound hardback copy of MY book as a present.  I can't really describe how I felt at that moment.  I was holding a copy of a book that I'd written in my hand.  That is an achievement that every writer out there can relate to and be proud of.

And then, seeing that I was retired and had more time on my hands, the kids started badgering me to write another book.  So I did and it grew like Topsy and turned into book 1 of a trilogy.  And the kids said, being more technically savvy than an old fart like myself, that I should publish it myself as an e-book.  Well I didn't know anything about indie-publishing so, as a trial, I pushed out the 25yr old book to see how it worked.  That was 6 months ago.  So far it's sold over a thousand copies.  I mean - what!  There's over a thousand people out there who've paid money to read my book and some of them even said they liked it.

The second book is out there now and starting to sell.  The next book is underway.  So what's the point of this ramble?  I was discouraged 25 years ago but the options and the opportunities were a lot less then.  I am not discouraged now.  Even if only ten people buy your book and only one of them likes it - you've still reached someone.  And more importantly, in your heart, you know you're a writer.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Kenson said:


> If I may, at the risk of being a little self-indulgent, I'll tell you my story.
> 
> I wrote a book 25 years ago. I don't know why. I'd heard or read somewhere that everybody has one book in them. So I wrote a story in a genre that I liked and that I thought my kids would like. And I tried to publish it. Well 25 years ago you didn't have much choice other than the traditional publishing route and everyone of them slammed the traditional door in my face. So I thought, well I like the story, my family like the story, I don't care if the rest of the world doesn't like the story and I left it at that.
> 
> ...


What a fantastic story. Too many of us take it for granted how easy it is these days. Not just to publish but to reach a global community of readers. I post something on Wattpad and then a week later I'm going "Oh, how depressing, only 400 people bothered to read it." But if this was my grandmothers day, when she used to publish short stories in the local paper, she would have been thrilled if only fifty people had read it. I get reader mail from India, Africa, Australia, Brazil, all over Europe and of course all over America, and I'm fairly blasé about it, but that's because I had years in an office dealing with clients world wide and I forget sometimes how very special the digital revolution is for books.
Okay, I'm going to shut up now because I sound half cut lol


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## Graham C. (Oct 19, 2014)

> So much has happened this fall, but I have a deadline for both my writing group and with my editor, so I've been pushing on - hey, professionals don't just write when they feel like it! but I can't help but feel that this latest collection doesn't have the whimsy that I like including, that it's preachy, that the writing will sound forced (well, and it was forced - I wrote whether I felt like it or not, no matter how tired I was, or stressed)


Becca I hear you. I wrote fantasy and I recently realized that all my joy in that project came from the whimsy of it ... but it took many months to pull it all together. Back when I wrote it I wasn't marketing another book, or trying to figure out where to advertise, or checking my sales dashboard as part of my life. When I wasn't writing I was exposing myself to all kinds of quirky art and fairy tale-landness and that was so inspirational. It's almost like I needed to be in a creative bubble to access my whimsical side. I never write to deadline because the pressure kills all the fun of it for me. I think the creative wall is real.

So I can't pound out good whimsical sequels fast, but that doesn't make me less professional about my work than someone who can. I just write at my own pace and the prize is loving what I ended up with and then also the occasional reader who will write a review saying that they loved where the story took them. You know that feeling.


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