# Questions about your pet? Ask here



## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

There are many pet threads but they seem to be a bit more specific. I thought one place for people to post questions about their pets would help folks and prevent me, I mean all of us, from hijacking specific pet threads.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I have posted on this in a couple of different threads but thought I would start here.

Our 7 month old dog, Barky McBarksalot, aka Cooper, is having a tough time with dog foods. He will eat anything but this approach does not seem to appeal to his digestive track. He is a healthy, happy, German Shepherd, Lab mix. We think there might be husky and a friend suggested collie because of his face, who has major poop problems.

His poops are fine when he is on Hills Prescription ID dog food. Before he was on that he was eating Blue Buffalo Lamb and Oatmeal and then we tried Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice. Both led to runny poops. He came to us with parasites which we treated. We completed the treatment a second time when the poops were really bad again just to be safe. His fecal test has come back with no parasites but we completed the treatment just to be safe. At the same time we moved him to the prescription dog food and added a probiotic. When the prescription dog food ran out, the Vet said to return him to his old dog food. Instant runny poops. It was less then 24 hours. we tried the chicken and rice dog food, no improvement. So now he is back on the prescription stuff.

My questions is, does anyone know an over the counter dog food that is similar to the Hill's Prescription ID? It is expensive, the Blue Buffalo is expensive as well but this is worse. We are fine with using a brand other then Blue Buffalo but would like something that is good for his sensitive stomach.


[URL=http://www.petdental.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp]http://www.petdental.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441760640[/url]

The link leads to the webpage about the dog food.

I don't like the ingredient list. It seems to be full of fillers and by products. The Vet agrees that he is far to young to put on this food for the rest of his life. We are working with her to figure out what to do. I am calling on Monday, I was out of town all last week, to get some food suggestions. I know that there are people here who have had dogs with similar problems or have a great deal of experience with dogs. The last time we talked the Vet said that we should give him a week or two on the food alone to help his system settle down and then start moving him to another food but that she would have to do some research on what foods. She hopes that we can find something else for him but thinks that we might end up always mixing his food with the prescription and something else more agreeable to his stomach.

I love the Blue Buffalo, Caya eats the Salmon, because it is filler free and the first ingredients are meat based. The ingredient list on Cooper's current dog food lists chicken by-product meal and pork fat so I don't think he is allergic to meat, maybe lamb.

Help, please


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

ProfCash, I would try a limited ingredient food. Fewer ingredients means less chance that a dog will react to something. Limited ingredient foods are usually the first recommendation for dogs who have sensitive tummies or who are suspected of having food allergies.

Two brands I recommend are Natural Balance and California Natural.

All California Natural foods are limited ingredient. With Natural Balance you want to look at their limited ingredient line (L.I.D.).

Blue does have a line of foods called Blue Basics which is somewhat limited ingredient, but still a lot more ingredients than in the Natural Balance or California Natural foods.

Edited to add -- It's just a technicality, but a sensitive stomach doesn't equal an allergy, although they're treated the same way (avoidance of offending foods). A dog with food allergies will have a systemic immune system response, which almost always involves intense itching and skin irritation. A sensitive tummy usually comes under the label of food intolerance.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Should I assume that lamb is totally out of the picture? His poop was awful with the Lamb and Oatmeal but was still bad with Science Diets Lamb and Rice.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

There are SO many ingredients in both of those foods, and any of them could be a culprit.  But since he's had problems on two lamb-based foods I would go with something else.  And I'd also compare the ingredients in both of those foods and make note of everything (excluding vitamins and minerals--at least for now) that's in both of them.  Then if you switch to another food and he has problems, you check its ingredients against the common ingredients in the Blue Lamb and Oatmeal and the SD Lamb and Rice.  And so on until hopefully you can narrow the culprit(s) down.

I said exclude vitamins and minerals for now because I have heard of a very, very few dogs whose owners actually figured out that it was some weird vitamin/mineral supplement that caused problems.  But that's pretty rare and not something I'd worry about at all at this point.

Also pay attention to any and all treats you give him.  I'd recommend getting the treats that go along with whatever limited-ingredient food you choose.  Usually the ingredients in the treats will mirror those in the food, which makes the detective work simpler.  Likewise, if you like to give some canned food, I'd stick to the same thing as the dry.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I don't think the treats are the problem. He gets his greenie every day and his peanut butter and cookie in his Kong. His poops have been fine with his getting those as long as he is on the prescription dog food. This leads me to believe that the problem is the dog food.

I will keep an eye on the ingredients in the dog food. I think we have decided that lamb is out. I am not sure about the chicken. We have to take Caya in for her Canine influenza shot so I'll talk to the Vet then about food. 

Thanks for the help.


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

Did you switch him over to the new food gradually?  If not, maybe the fast switch was too much for his sensitive system to handle rather than the ingredients in the new food.  

Here's my question.  Our dog Blizzard growled once at us when we reached for his food bowl a few weeks after bringing him home from a rescue group.  We told him "no", called him out of the room and let him back in a few minutes later.  Over the next week we made a point of walking past his bowl while he was eating and reaching toward his bowl to add treats (cheese) while he was eating.  He never growled again until yesterday (a year later).  We had given him a chew treat (a softer type of rawhide) and he was gnawing on it in the living room.  Hubby walked past to get a tool on the table and Blizzard growled.  We told Blizzard "no", and had everyone walk past a few times to see the reaction. He growled at everyone if they came within a few feet.  I'd like some tips on dealing with this.  He hasn't reacted like this with any other treat/toy.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

I grew up with a Beagle (my signature).  Had a Border Terrier 40 years ago.  That was the last dog.  I'm getting a Border Terrier puppy at the end of June.  He's just two weeks old today.

How 'bout trying to feed your dog(s) plain ol' dog food.  In the olden days, we basically fed the dogs Ken-L Biscuit or the like.  No diet-related problems.  I think all the "dog food" today is getting to be ridiculous.

Beagles do have rich tastes.  I know of two who ate rocks (diamond engagement rings).  Our Beagle licked up shattered glass.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Mom2karen that is weird. I have no advice on what to do to deal with it. Hopefully one of the dog experts on the board can help you.

We did switch Cooper over gradually when we gave him a new food. The only exception has been the prescription food which he went straight on. 

Sandpiper, the dog food we have been giving him is plain old dog food. It is just plain old dog food without a ton of fillers. This is actually recommended by most vets because you can feed the dog smaller amounts, the absorb more nutrients, they end up having smaller poops, and then end up having less gas so there is less farting. The mass produced dog foods tend to have lots of grains and fillers which means that you feed the dog more and they poop more. In the end, the Blue Buffalo and other such products end up costing about the same as the mass produced cheaper dog foods because you are giving the dogs less.

It could very well be that lamb and the like, which I am guessing is new, is more of an issue for dogs then other meats. It sure seems to be a problem for Cooper.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Mom2Karen -- Sometimes with a food-aggressive dog you simply have to limit what you give them.  If something is too "high value", then sometimes it's just best to not give that particular food item any more.  So you may have to cross rawhide off your list of treats.

You can try the following if you want:

Hand-feeding his regular dog food.  Kibble by kibble.  Have everybody who lives in your house do it (except, of course, for young children).  It takes a lot of time and consistency, but the idea is that eventually he learns that good things come from her humans' hands and aren't taken away.  If that goes okay, then you can try some "trading up."  So you give him something like a dog biscuit or maybe even a bit of hotdog or cheese--something a little higher value than kibble--and then get him to "trade up" for something like a bite of steak or chicken.  The goal here is to teach him that whenever he gives up something willingly and w/o a fuss he gets something even better.  Again, it can take a long time and you have to be very careful that he doesn't become aggressive.  Some people just find it easier to not give whatever sends the dog into aggressive mode.

ProfCrash -- I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from your dog's stomach issues to dogs as a whole.  A dog with an allergy or food intolerance can very literally react to any food item.  There have been a very few studies done on canine food allergies and intolerances, and I believe statistically the most likely foods to trigger allergies/intolerances are beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, eggs, corn, wheat, and soy.  Not surprisingly, those are all foods that have commonly been included in commercial dog foods for decades.


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

Thanks Pawz4me.  He has no problem with us getting into his dog food bowl, gently takes food out of our hands and I can take away other treats (kong, busy box...) so I think you are right that it is this particular item.  Next time we have steak I'll save a few chunks and try to trade up for the rawhide treat.


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## candyisdandy (Apr 3, 2011)

Sandpiper said:


> I grew up with a Beagle (my signature). Had a Border Terrier 40 years ago. That was the last dog. I'm getting a Border Terrier puppy at the end of June. He's just two weeks old today.
> 
> How 'bout trying to feed your dog(s) plain ol' dog food. In the olden days, we basically fed the dogs Ken-L Biscuit or the like. No diet-related problems. I think all the "dog food" today is getting to be ridiculous.
> 
> Beagles do have rich tastes. I know of two who ate rocks (diamond engagement rings). Our Beagle licked up shattered glass.


Sandpiper, I also grew up with a beagle (though she had some poodle in her), and I don't remember her eating anything other than what she was supposed to.

We now have an 8 month old Puggle puppy (pug/beagle), and she is the worst for chewing/eating everything that she can sink her teeth into. The worst incident we've had so far is when she got one of my 5 year old daughter's socks and swallowed it whole, all in under a minute and before we could catch her (that's another thing; she's so fast, and trying to catch her is like trying to catch a greased pig). We called the vet and had to give her a dose of hydrogen preroxide to bring it up. But I'm going crazy because I can't leave anything where she can get it - clothes, toys, electronics, pieces of paper (my kids have actually had to use the old, "The dog ate my homework" excuse), shoes, etc. She's been to puppy school and we've heard/read/tried all of the suggestions on redirecting her, etc.

So I guess my question is whether this is just a beagle trait and we will have to get used to it, or is it possibly a puppy thing that she will grow out of?


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

candyisdandy said:


> So I guess my question is whether this is just a beagle trait and we will have to get used to it, or is it possibly a puppy thing that she will grow out of?


Probably a little of both!

It is a Beagle trait. All puppies tend to ingest various non-edible things, but Beagles and Labs seem particularly prone to it, and for it to carry on past puppyhood. But chances are she'll improve a lot as time goes by. To give you hope: I have a nine-year old Beagle that we adopted when she was two, and she's never once to my knowledge eaten a non-food item. She has, however, trained us well to put the kitchen trash can away when we leave the house, to firmly close the pantry door, and to push all food far back on the counters. My Brittany, now eleven, at different points when he was a puppy ate an entire Ace bandage and a six-foot leather leash. Thankfully, he grew out of his fetish for non-food items by the time he was a couple of years old.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Have you tried teaching her the "leave it" command? Our dogs do pretty well with that one. We have had a few chewed up shoes, pretty small chews but still needed to be replaced, but only when we have not had eyes on them. If we are watching them and they are looking at a sock we can normally get them to back off with "Leave it".

Essentially, you start with putting a little bit of food in your hand and hold it out to the dog. When the dog approaches it you say "Leave it". If the dog backs off or turns away from the food, the dog gets a different treat. You repeat this over time and they eventually realize that leaving the thing that they want, a sock, alone gets them something more valuable, a treat. You can use a toy instead of a treat, whatever it is that is of high value to the dog. We rarely have to give Caya or Cooper treats when they "leave it" now although we do occassionally so that they keep listening. 

Over time the dogs are suppose to learn what they can and cannot play with and chew with the leave it command. We also made sure to have a chew toy in arms reach so that after they left the sock or shoe and got their treat we could give them a chew toy. As soon as they start to play with the chew toy we would praise them and pet them. So they learn that the chew toy gets them lovings and that leaving things gets them treats.

We have had a few miscues but all of been when Cooper managed to get past the gate while we were at work. Caya has not chewed anything she isn't suppose to. Cooper could be a massive chewer, he has gone through more chew toys, a sock, and two pairs of shoes but has done reasonably well. 

Caya is Beagle/Shepherd and Cooper is Lab/Shepherd/ maybe Collie and Husky.


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

Okay, I have a question-- we have four cats.  They all get the same dry food, same wet food (one can in the a.m. and they share).  ONE cat is about a pound overweight.  When you consider that she weights about 7-8 pounds, that's more than 10% overweight so it's like if we have 10 extra pounds.

She is active. She does not eat overmuch.  She does not get very many treats (less than one a day, averaged out).  We use the laser light to give her more excercise, and she chases/stalks our other girl kitty.  Any other advice??  We have all four on IAMS multicat chicken formula, because it helps keep our 12-year-old cat from getting too skinny.

Any advice?  She's like a smaller version of that full-figured cat from CATS (if you've ever seen it on stage), with the small head and shoulders, then it bells out to her behind when she sits.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/dog-food-vitamin-mineral-standards/

This seems to be a really good web page with information about dog food. Yes I am currently obsessed with finding the right dog food. (winks)

A tip for everyone on dog food.



> "According to the Association of American Fed Control Officials, in order for any dog food company to print the words "complete and balanced" on a package&#8230; that claim must first have been validated in one of two ways.
> 
> The first uses a product's recipe (or the laboratory analysis of a sample) to assume it meets AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profile3. Dog food's meeting this standard usually include words like&#8230;
> 
> ...


Now, obviously, products tested using this more rigorous method should be given extra consideration."


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

I wouldn't put much stock in AAFCO feeding trials. Their criteria for performing a feeding trial would be laughable if it weren't so pitiful. Essentially all that's required is for a small group of dogs (I forget exactly how many, but I can look it up if you're interested) survive on the food for six months and not lose more than a certain percentage of their body weight. And that's about it. And a percentage of the dogs are allowed to be withdrawn from the feeding trial for any reason.

The Dog Food Project is an excellent source of information.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Because I had a niggling feeling that what I posted above wasn't exactly correct, I looked up the AAFCO criteria for a dog food trial:

A minimum of eight dogs are required to start a trial and it must run for 26 weeks.

Up to 25% of the animals starting the feeding trial may be withdrawn for “non-nutritional reasons or poor food intake.”  Information on the withdrawn dogs doesn't have to be included in the final results of the trial.

A dog is allowed to lose up to 15% of its beginning body weight during the trial (there aren't any limits on how much weight a dog can gain).

And that's it.  So what it boils down to is that six dogs have to survive on a food for six months, without losing too much weight, for a food to qualify as "complete and balanced nutrition."


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## JJayKamp (Mar 11, 2011)

@Casey:  Your cat, at seven or eight pounds, is not very overweight, if at all.  Unless she is having difficulties, I wouldn't worry about it.  You say she's active and eating (and presumably bright-eyed and bushy tailed), and those are the two things I'd watch the most.  

You see, I have three kitties, and one is quite overweight at fourteen pounds.  He has arthritis, and I was worried about all that strain on his little legs, so I switched everyone's diet to canned food in an effort to help him lose his weight.  And he did lose weight, and became more active.  Unfortunately his little delicate tummy couldn't take the change in his food, and he became very, very sick -- because we kept switching his food around per the vet's advice.  It took $2,000 worth of vet bills and a switch in vets to finally realize that we were starving him to death on an all-canned diet, and that the change in food upset his stomach and gave him acid reflux and diarrhea.  Moral of the story:  don't fix if it ain't broke. 

Best wishes for you & your fur kids!  Your kitties are lucky to have you as a mom!


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Pawz4me said:


> I wouldn't put much stock in AAFCO feeding trials. Their criteria for performing a feeding trial would be laughable if it weren't so pitiful. Essentially all that's required is for a small group of dogs (I forget exactly how many, but I can look it up if you're interested) survive on the food for six months and not lose more than a certain percentage of their body weight. And that's about it. And a percentage of the dogs are allowed to be withdrawn from the feeding trial for any reason.
> 
> The Dog Food Project is an excellent source of information.


Thanks for the link.

Now to figure out how to teach the dogs not to wrestle under or next to my chair while I am typing on the computer...


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

We own a store that sells dog and cat foods...high grade "healthy" pet foods (we don't sell animals, just food and pet supplies). We do not sell any Purina products, nor do we sell Iams or any Science diet or the typical "grocery store" brands (no Beneful or Old Roys  either). When looking for a healthy pet food look for ingredients which do not include wheat, corn and soy...especially corn. Those three ingredients are what causes most allergies in dogs and cats (skin/itching issues, ear infections (yeast produced by the carbs in the foods), runny eyes, etc. Also many of the dyes in foods cause allergy issues in pets. Also look for foods that do not include by-products. Most of the foods we sell use "human grade" ingredients. We sell about 50 different lines of dog and cat foods...dry (kibble types), wet (canned) and frozen raw meat. Glutens are often used to raise protein levels in foods rather than using real meat or meat meal (which is meat with the water removed). Glutens are not healthy for pets, especially corn gluten.

Many vets in our area are sending their patients  to us for their nutritional needs and to find foods other than the Science Diet line which isn't particularly good and VERY expensive. There are many better alternatives to Science Diet, especially the Science Diet Prescriptions plans, that are healthier for your dog and cat and are significantly cheaper.

The healthy dog/cat foods are more expensive than the grocery/box store brand but you feed less of the food because they are more nutritionally dense and are not full of fillers (which just pass very quickly through the animals' systems) and, therefore, end up costing less because you buy it less often. Our 25 lb dog, when we fed kibble, ate 3/4 cup of dry Orijen a day...that's it total 3/4 cup divided into two meals and he is healthy, active and is not starving by eating so little an amount of food. Orijen is dense and 3/4 of a cup of Origen weighs more than 3/4 of a cup of any of the grocery/box store, Iams, Science Diet brands. Orijen has no fillers, or by-products, etc..

Also, be careful of the snacks, especially if your pet has allergy issues to wheat, corn and soy or other ingredients. Many people feed good food but continue with Milk Bones or other grocery store snacks which contain unhealthy/by-products ingredients. Rawhide isn't really a good chew treat for dogs either. It is highly indigestible and can cause intestinal blockages. We suggest bully sticks instead of rawhide. A bully stick is pure protein, much easier to digest than rawhide which is fat and not easily digested. A high protein/low carb (or better yet grain free) diet is best for most dogs and grain free is best for cats as they are true carnivores (cats are not natural veggie/grain eaters.  )

DH spent a week at Natura (who makes Innova, Evo, California Natural, Healthwise and Karma) last year and was pleasantly surprised by their facility and the care taken in the manufacture of their foods (he had to wear surgical type gowns and masks and shoe covers to go into the manufacturing plant). Also, all the food was inspected prior to using it and if an apple had a blemish or bruise it was rejected. The ingredients are regularly tested in the labs. Champion Pet Foods in Canada has a very good video on how there food is manufactured and where their food sources are from. This company makes Orijen and Acana.

Good nutrition is the cornerstone to healthy pets. 

A good site for analyzing different dog and cat foods is:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/


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## albianne (Jan 22, 2011)

I have a ? re our Bischon Shitzu, he is 9 yrs old and has always been healthy, he eats everything under the sun, mostly Iams dog food but he likes to mooch from the table too, he is not overweight.  We have been having him shaved/clipped every 2 months all his life with no problem.  Our regular dog groomer who actually doesn't do a very "nice" job (his fur looks all choppy, not smooth) well the groomer has health issues and cannot do it anymore so we now have to take hie to a different groomer.  His new groomer, whom he has seen twice now, does a lovely smooth job which is more in line with other bichon shitzu's I have seen when walking.  Our little guy had a haircut a couple of weeks ago, he looked great, no cuts or scrapes, fur was nice and smooth and the dog has not been itching.  Today I was petting the dog and noticed that he has a bright red spot under the fur.  It's not his armpit but if you follow the armpit around on to his back, which I guess is the back of his shoulder there is a spot the size of an egg (it is flat not swollen), the skin is not broken or raised or rashy in any way but just bright deep red. 
I am at a loss of what this could be, he is not itching, he has not been bitten, it kind of reminds me of a birthmark but much brighter and this has never been there before.  Do you think it could be something he picked up from the tools of the new groomer?


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

Thanks for the food info. I'll be getting my cat back soon and I'm sure she's just been fed MeowMix or something for the last couple years while I was in school. I'll have to find some nutritional food for her.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Tatiana said:


> DH spent a week at Natura (who makes Innova, Evo, California Natural, Healthwise and Karma) last year and was pleasantly surprised by their facility and the care taken in the manufacture of their foods (he had to wear surgical type gowns and masks and shoe covers to go into the manufacturing plant). Also, all the food was inspected prior to using it and if an apple had a blemish or bruise it was rejected. The ingredients are regularly tested in the labs.


Unfortunately, Natura was bought last June by Proctor & Gamble. From what I understand, included in the purchase contract was a clause preventing P&G from making any substantive changes to ingredients or manufacturing processes for one year. The one-year period will be over in a month, and most people in the dog food world are assuming that the quality of foods made by Natura will suffer after that. At least they will if history holds true -- Iams and Eukanuba were much better quality foods prior to being bought by P&G.

Albianne -- Have you by any chance applied a topical flea/tick preventative to your dog recently? The location and description sound as if it could be an allergic reaction to something like that. Ringworm is another possibility.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Holy cats--and dogs...just found this thread and there are so may questions, in different directions, really can't address 'em in any meaningful way. *sigh* But will bookmark and follow, and try to help if/when I can. Quick comments, below.

Just a note--AAFCO is the best we got. Nope, it's not ideal, but if it does NOT have an AAFCO assurance the food has gone through feeding trials, steer clear. Because the other way they can "validate" the claims is simply using chemical analysis which means the food never has to be fed to the pet. You can make an old shoe "analyze" to be complete and balanced.   AAFCO simply manages interstate commerce, there's no rule says anyone has to follow those "minimum" trials and most of the major companies surpass them. But it's waaaaay expensive to house populations of dogs and conduct feeding trials, so that at least tells consumers the company invests $$ and cares.

I've visited several pet food company manufacturing plants both in the US and England--they all have "clean rooms" where you must wear booties, masks, etc. And FWIW, some of the "natural" products folks think are better than others are manufactured in the same plants. Purina, for instance, packages "private label" foods for all kinds of other companies. *shrug* So does Diamond (they make Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul foods, for example).

For tubby tabbies--try food puzzle toys, and/or setting out tiny portions of the dry food on saucers hidden all over the house. Kitty must hunt (or move the puzzle toy) to get the food. 

Prof Crash, the ID used to be MOSTLY made up of boiled egg. It's a low-residue food with high bioavailability which means there's little for the dog to excrete...it all gets used. Anything that's kibbled will contain grain--which means more (ahem) output. As others said, changing diets too quickly often causes digestive upset, and shepherds are notorious for ify digestion. I love the site www.petdiets.com, run by vet nutritionist (not affiliated with food company) who can actually design a home cooked diet for specific needs. 

Re: the growly dog. You handled the first instance very well, bravo! My best advice on that, if it's a single item that triggers the issue, is take it away. Every time the dog "practices" the behavior and it works, the dog gets reinforced.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

Pawz4me said:


> Unfortunately, Natura was bought last June by Proctor & Gamble. From what I understand, included in the purchase contract was a clause preventing P&G from making any substantive changes to ingredients or manufacturing processes for one year. The one-year period will be over in a month, and most people in the dog food world are assuming that the quality of foods made by Natura will suffer after that. At least they will if history holds true -- Iams and Eukanuba were much better quality foods prior to being bought by P&G.


You are correct P & G bought Natura and most independent pet food store owners are very unhappy about that. The owners were an elderly couple (DH met them) and they wanted to retire. DH feels that they will eventually change the quality of their product and that is why DH and DS tend to steer customers onto other foods not made by Natura. It's also why he's been bringing in other lines that are equal to or better than the Natura products. He doesn't want to be stuck with poorer quality foods when they change. When the do lower the quality/ingredients in their foods he will discontinue selling them. Currently, tho', Natura is still a quality product.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Amyshojai said:


> Holy cats--and dogs...just found this thread and there are so may questions, in different directions, really can't address 'em in any meaningful way. *sigh* But will bookmark and follow, and try to help if/when I can. Quick comments, below.
> 
> Just a note--AAFCO is the best we got. Nope, it's not ideal, but if it does NOT have an AAFCO assurance the food has gone through feeding trials, steer clear. Because the other way they can "validate" the claims is simply using chemical analysis which means the food never has to be fed to the pet. You can make an old shoe "analyze" to be complete and balanced.  AAFCO simply manages interstate commerce, there's no rule says anyone has to follow those "minimum" trials and most of the major companies surpass them. But it's waaaaay expensive to house populations of dogs and conduct feeding trials, so that at least tells consumers the company invests $$ and cares.
> 
> Prof Crash, the ID used to be MOSTLY made up of boiled egg. It's a low-residue food with high bioavailability which means there's little for the dog to excrete...it all gets used. Anything that's kibbled will contain grain--which means more (ahem) output. As others said, changing diets too quickly often causes digestive upset, and shepherds are notorious for ify digestion. I love the site www.petdiets.com, run by vet nutritionist (not affiliated with food company) who can actually design a home cooked diet for specific needs.


Sorry Amy. I am hoping that having one topic for questions will diminish the growth of pet topics. And I really did not want to ask questions about my dog in other dogs topics.

We are planning on making a very slow transition this time. Last time we moved from the I/D to the Lamb and Oatmeal overnight which was bad. We were out of the I/D and the Vet had said to return him to his food when we were finished and we didn't think about it. When his poop went bad again we moved him to Chicken and Rice overnight because we didn't want him staying on the Lamb and Oatmeal. This time we bought the 7 pound bag of I/D. We will have plenty for making a slow move.

I just need to decide what food we are moving him to. I am seeing the Vet today to get Caya a few shots (Flu and Lyme) and we will discuss the food thing then.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

Amyshojai said:


> Anything that's kibbled will contain grain--which means more (ahem) output. javascript:void(0);


BTW, not all kibbled foods contain *grain*. I'm not here to argue, just inform. We monitor the ingredients in pet foods more carefully than we monitor the ingredients in our own foods. The decision of Legacy to drop Saskatoon berries from its food once generated an hour+ long discussion between DH and DS on the benefits/detriments of that particular ingredient in dog food. They don't care that much about what McD's puts in the burgers they themselves eat! 

Orijen and Acana by Champion Pet Foods are grain free. EVO by Natura is also grain free. Taste of the Wild by Diamond (with greatly improved quality control), Nature's Variety Instinct and Natural Balance and Blue Buffalo Wilderness are also grain free. FROMM has Grain Free Surf and Turf, Pinnacle Peak is also grain free. Canidae also makes a grain free line and Wellness Core is grain free.

Most grain free foods instead of using grains as a binder will use sweet potato, peas or tapioca as a binder to form the kibble. There is a difference in grains in foods and carbohydrates (the sweet potato, peas and tapioca are carbs not grains).

EVO, Nature Variety and Orijen have the lowest carb content. You should look at the package to determine the protein content, protein content higher than 30% is best in grain free foods. But you need to be sure that the protein is not from glutens.

For dogs and cats, to avoid both carbs and grains you can go with a frozen raw meat diet.  Bravo has a straight frozen meat which needs supplements added to be a balanced healthy diet. Bravo also makes a fully balanced raw meat line. Nature's Variety Instinct, Primal, Stella and Chewys, Furry Foodies, and Aunt Jenny's all have frozen raw meat diets with protein levels usually from 60% to 95%. They come in a variety of flavours (chicken, beef, venison, bison, surf and turf, quail, pheasant, lamb, rabbit, etc.) and just need to be thawed and served to your pet. The amount of food fed to your pet depends on the weight of the animal so if you have a large dog it can get pricey to feed a raw diet.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Tatiana, You're right, I mis-spoke...anything "extruded" contains grain. Kibble can be grain-free. *s*


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

The Vet recommended Pro Plan dog food for Cooper so we will try that with a gradual change over. 

Caya has eaten Rice and Lamb by Science Diet and Blue Buffalo, she is currently eating Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon and Cooper's left over Chicken and Rice and Lamb and Oatmeal. We will move her to whatever Cooper ends up on once he is an adult, given his breed mix I am guessing that will be closer to 18 months then 12 months.

We are not going to move to a raw diet unless it is the only way for Cooper to eat without bad poops. Call us lazy but the raw food strikes me as too time consuming and expensive for our family. Cooper will happily eat anything we give him. The other night I forgot to give him his probiotic. He was licking his dog dish right after he finished eating so I put the probiotic in the dish on its own and he licked it up. He is not very discriminating... Clearly his digestive track is more discriminating then his taste buds.


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback about our little loaf!  (Really, she looks like one of those natural-bread round loaves when she lays down.)  I think you're right-- if it's not broken, we're not going to mess with it.  We might switch over to a less filler-derived dry food, however, and see if it will help them ALL poop less.  

BTW-- for a food game, we put little treats in a muffin tin, covered them with little toys, and made th cats figure it out.  We'll be doing that one again, as none of them could figure out that if they just used their teeth (as they do for all their other toy play), they'd have the toy out and instant treat access.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

casey, I am invisioning my dogs playing that game. I see the muffin tins flying across the room in about 10 seconds. 

I ended up going with the Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish formula. There is a pet food store near us that sells the premium quality foods that was recommended by one of the Vet Techs and I had found online. The Owner there was suprised that Cooper's problems had gotten worse when we moved to the Blue Buffalo Lamb and Oatmeal and thought that the problem might be the grain and not the protein. I am not ready to try anything with Lamb in it right now so we went with fish. He suggested the Taste of the Wild and the Natural Balance. I chose the Natural Balance. It had been recommended here and was well reviewed in other places. I don't know as much about the Taste of the Wild.

The store is great. I can return the food if we don't use more then 1/3 of it and try something else. And if we end up going with that brand they have a buy 10 big bags get one free policy. That is a nice little discount especially since I am expecting Cooper to be about 70 pounds, he is 47 pounds at 7 months and that is with his digestive issues. I expect him to pack on pounds once we get the food thing figured out. It is also close to work. So Yeah!

The new food will be slowly worked in starting Monday. 1/4 Fish, 3/4 I/D for 5 days, then 1/2 fish 1/2 I/D for 5 days. Nice and slow.


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

ProfCrash said:


> Have you tried teaching her the "leave it" command? Our dogs do pretty well with that one. We have had a few chewed up shoes, pretty small chews but still needed to be replaced, but only when we have not had eyes on them. If we are watching them and they are looking at a sock we can normally get them to back off with "Leave it".


Blizzard seldom has anything in his mouth he isn't supposed to have, or even looks at things. He does follow "leave it" when we're walking and he is sniffing something interesting though. The one thing he gets into that he isn't supposed to is socks. He will pick them up from the floor and take them outside, but he isn't protective of them at all, and only does it when we aren't around. If we're there he totally ignores them. He does like a kong with PB. I think I will start trading up/leave it on the kong, and when he gets the idea that trading is fantastic, I'll try it with the chewy rawhide thing.

Thanks everyone!


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Caya and Cooper both love my Hubby's socks and undies. I have found both of them sleeping with one or the other under their noses. They like that scent.


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## cc84 (Aug 6, 2010)

I have a question. Does anyone here who has a dog give them Evening Primrose Oil? When i got my Noah, who is now 17 weeks old, my mothers friend said he once had a Westie and he gave him EPO and he had a lovely coat. When my dog had his last injection i asked the nurse but she'd never heard of it, she said that Westie's are prone to skin problems so it couldn't hurt him to try, so now he has one a day. 

My mother also knows someone who gives their Cavalier King Charles the capsules too and that dog has a lovely coat. So i was just wondering if people here do it and do you see any benefits?


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Nope. Salmon is suppose to be good for their skin and coats. We are feeding Caya Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon and her coat is great. We are moving Cooper to it starting next week.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

I've supplemented with evening primrose oil before. EPO is an Omega 6 fatty acid and can can be helpful in improving the skin/coat of dogs.

Most sources indicate that Omega 3 fatty acids, usually in the form of fish body oil or salmon oil, are the best choice when supplementing dogs. The general thinking is that most commercial dog foods already contain more than enough Omega 6 fatty acids.

Here's a good source of info about essential fatty acids for dogs:

Clicky


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

how often does one give a pug a bath?  I know when we had our husky, we were told to not bath him anymore than once every couple of months (which was good b/c he hated baths).  According to the internet it says:  as needed.  Ok, you tell me to clean his folds once a week, brush him 2x a week, but bath him as needed?  I'm a little confused.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

heheh Don't you love that type of advice...

I thought that the general rules with dogs was to bathe them as infrequently as possible because their skin is more likely to dry out and develop issues with frequent bathings. I know that the pet stores in my area are selling doggie wipe sheets that you can use to freshen up your pooch. I have used the human bath wipes on my pups paws before they get on the bed after they have been running around outside. 

We give Caya and Cooper a bath about once every few months during the nicer weather and only about once every three months when the weather gets cold.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Basically, your nose knows.  Get a grooming shampoo for dogs and if he gets dingy, dusty or smelly, give him a dunk. Human scalp is much oilier than dog skin and will strip the oils from the coat and dry out the dog's skin. Even human baby shampoo is too harsh, and dishwashing soap ("cuts grease") will really set off some doggy skin. So plain, mild dog designed grooming shampoo without flea prevention stuff (that only kills fleas, doesn't keep 'em off) is my choice. Key to successful baths is rinse, rinse, and then rinse some more.

One thing that helps with bath-reluctant dogs is to avoid wetting the face until the very end--and for that, use a wash clothe. Spraying or running water into the face, nose, eyes, ears is scary and off-putting to some dogs.

Of course, my Magical-Dawg LOVES playing with the hose! It's just really hard to rinse him when he's biting the water, LOL


magic water 11 by amyshojai, on Flickr


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

It's absolutely fine to bathe a dog as often as needed, even if that's several times a week.  In the past I've had to bathe my allergy dog every other day for months at a time, and it was always helpful.  Anytime you take a dog to the vet for allergies or other skin conditions that affect the skin, one of the treatments recommended will almost always be frequent baths with special shampoos for whatever condition is bothering the dog.

As far as I can tell, the old notion that you shouldn't bathe a dog any more than absolutely, positively necessary sprang up decades ago when all pet shampoos were extremely harsh and drying.  That's no longer the case at all.  The grooming products available nowadays are very gentle.  Just make sure to use lukewarm water and rinse thoroughly.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Pawz4me said:


> It's absolutely fine to bathe a dog as often as needed, even if that's several times a week. In the past I've had to bathe my allergy dog every other day for months at a time, and it was always helpful. Anytime you take a dog to the vet for allergies or other skin conditions that affect the skin, one of the treatments recommended will almost always be frequent baths with special shampoos for whatever condition is bothering the dog.
> 
> As far as I can tell, the old notion that you shouldn't bathe a dog any more than absolutely, positively necessary sprang up decades ago when all pet shampoos were extremely harsh and drying. That's no longer the case at all. The grooming products available nowadays are very gentle. Just make sure to use lukewarm water and rinse thoroughly.


Caya and Cooper wanted me to tell you that they don't like you very much right now.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

LOL!

Tell 'em I said that just because it's okay to have a bath every day doesn't mean they have to.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Well...just rinsing (or "rinching" as my grandma used to say) helps reduce allergies both for pets and humans. You don't have to use soap, either.  

Now, my cat will ambush me in my sleep!


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

What about cats who have dandruff?  Any suggestions?  Poor boy's skin is SO itchy.     Brushing him with the new brush helps but the stuff comes back.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Cats with dandruff--EFAs (essential fatty acids, especially Omega-3s) can be very helpful. Fish oil capsules also smell fishy and they'll take like treats. 

How old is the kitty? Sometimes thyroid issues can result in some flaky skin stuff but hyperthyroid more typically happens in older cats and there's other signs as well.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Ditto what Amy said regarding fish oil/EFAs.

Sometimes a change in food is needed.

And sometimes stress plays a roll in dandruff.  My male cat flakes up whenever we go away for a few days, even though he has another kitty companion and MIL (one of his favorite people) comes by every day to take care of them.  A couple of days after we get back . . . . no more flakes.  At least until the next time we leave.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

(sigh)

So we are 2 days in to operation change Cooper's food and it looks like a total failure. We are using the Natural Balance Salmon and Sweet Potato and hi poops are back to being runny. Even worse, he woke up at 3:30 and 6 AM having to poop. I think the poor guy is going to be stuck on the boring dog food. I purposely chose the Natural Balance because it had less protein then the Wilderness Salmon hoping that we would have better results. I am giving it a few more days but it is not looking good.

We are doing 1/4 Natural Balance, 3/4 Prescription. Well there is some Chicken and Rice in there since the hubby, unknown to me, dumped in the chicken and rice into his bucket before dumping in the prescription food. Cooper had been eating that mix since the weekend. Maybe I'll stick to that for a bit and see if his poops firm up.


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks for the advice about the kitty dandruff.  I'll give the oil a try and see if it helps; I hate to change the food when it has otherwise been working for all four.  He's only 5 years old and not a breed that usually has health problems.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Cooper update. He is back on 100% perscription dog food. I picked up Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain Version to try him on in a week once we get him back on track poop wise.

So far we have used:

Science Diet Lamb and Rice Puppy (Loose stolls, minor diarreha)
Blue Buffalo Lamb and Oatmeal Puppy (Runny stools)
Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice (Runny Stools)
Natural Balance Salmon and Sweet Potato (Runny stools and pooping in the house)

I think he needs more fiber, so we chose a Taste of the Wild with higher fiber (4%). 

I want my puppy to be happy and healthy and eat a good food and have good poops. And I don't want him eating a food that costs $44 for a 7 pound bag. (sigh)


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Aw dang, Prof...paws crossed the new one will help.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

The silly thing is that as soon as he is on the prescription food his poop is perfectly fine. It takes one feeding and he is proper poop puppy.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

ProfCrash said:


> Caya and Cooper both love my Hubby's socks and undies. I have found both of them sleeping with one or the other under their noses. They like that scent.


Harley grabs socks and underwear out of the laundry room whenever he gets a chance.....


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Yep, Magical-dawg insists on taking my husband's socks when he takes 'em off each evening.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Luvmy4brats said:


> Harley grabs socks and underwear out of the laundry room whenever he gets a chance.....


How is Harley doing? He is the new pup that you adopted right?


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## mom2karen (Aug 15, 2009)

Prof, I hope you find a food that works for him soon.  At least you have the prescription stuff as a sure thing if nothing else works.

I locked Blizzard in my office and sat on the floor while he got a chew rawhide thing.  He walked away and kept an eye on me, but let me move around the room without growling at me.  I was able to trade steak for it a few times with no problem.  I still won't give him one if we have company, but I think I will be able to get him to accept us around with a few more exposures.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

ProfCrash said:


> How is Harley doing? He is the new pup that you adopted right?


He is doing FANTASTIC... I've had lots of dogs over the years, and none of them have been as easy going and laid back as this guy... Here's a cute video of him playing with our dachshund, Maverick today... (Doesn't Mavy look like a Golden Retriever with his legs chopped off?) Galatea (another dachshund) is just looking at them like "whatever"

<oops, video not working... I'll get it working>

The YouTube one isn't working, but here's a link to it on my FaceBook page..

http://www.facebook.com/luvmy4brats/posts/218018044894379


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

The link didn't work....


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

Does anyone else have a cat who chews on everything? My cat is normally very laid back, loves to cuddle and kick balls around, but sometimes in the very early morning, she will go into psycho-mode where she chews on EVERYTHING. This morning, she was chewing on the furniture, my watch, plastic bags, velcro, my camera, my laptop, everything. Is she just bored? I finally put her out on the deck where she seems content to watch the birds, but I was definitely planning on sleeping for several more hours before she woke me up.  Occasionally, she'll do this because she's hungry, but I checked her food bowl and it's full, so I have no ideas.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Aha...and what did you do in response to the kitty's chewing? Chase her? Yell, "no" or similar? Toss a pillow at her? In other words, give ATTENTION! LOL! Cats that are bored will find something to entertain themselves, and any attention can be better than being ignored (while you're sleeping, for instance). Much more fun to create a game of chase-the-cat..."look I'm chew-chew-chewing...nya-nya-nya!" 

For cats that like to chew all the time, more like dogs, the tips (below) can help. There also are some cats that develop OCD and chew/swallow inedible objects--wool sucking in Oriental heritage kitties, for example. Okay...that's probably much more than you wanted to know, LOL! Hope something here helps. Really if it's a ploy for attention, the way you cure it is to ignore and NOT give attention...tough to do when Jaws is at work.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

Amyshojai said:


> Aha...and what did you do in response to the kitty's chewing? Chase her? Yell, "no" or similar? Toss a pillow at her? In other words, give ATTENTION! LOL! Cats that are bored will find something to entertain themselves, and any attention can be better than being ignored (while you're sleeping, for instance). Much more fun to create a game of chase-the-cat..."look I'm chew-chew-chewing...nya-nya-nya!"


Hahahahaa, that is so true. Makes sense when you put it that way!


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

ProfCrash said:


> There are many pet threads but they seem to be a bit more specific. I thought one place for people to post questions about their pets would help folks and prevent me, I mean all of us, from hijacking specific pet threads.


Great! My four year old yorkiepoo has a delicate stomach. Everything makes her throw up, in addition, she has a few bm's throughout the day and the first one is always hard while the others are almost too soft. I asked the vet and he said "that's her digestive system" but should I be worried?


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Hi Beatrice,

If your vet isn't worried then you probably don't need to worry--BUT it is aggravating. Little guys like Yorkies often can't eat lots at one time, so several small meals over the day work better than one big meal. Adding plain yogurt or a doggy "digestive enzyme" might help, and not changing food also is a big issue with ify tummies.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Beatrice Brusic said:


> Great! My four year old yorkiepoo has a delicate stomach. Everything makes her throw up, in addition, she has a few bm's throughout the day and the first one is always hard while the others are almost too soft. I asked the vet and he said "that's her digestive system" but should I be worried?


I wouldn't be worried, but neither would I accept it as normal. Because chances are she's not feeling as well as she could if she weren't having those digestive issues.

Most dogs have one or two BMs a day. More than that is a bit unusual, and a sign that something's not quite right.

I'd be looking at what you feed her -- brand, ingredients, etc. In general, dogs with tricky tummies usually do best on a limited ingredient food. I'd particularly want to avoid foods that contain unnecessary ingredients like artificial flavors, colorings, etc.

Overfeeding can cause that type of BM pattern (and of course it doesn't take much at all to overfeed such a small dog). But I don't think it would account for the vomiting.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

We are working through this problem with our 8 month old Cooper. Our Vet is worried but his poop was pretty much liquid 2 out of 3 times. The only time it has been solid is on the prescription food (boooo).

We have cut him back on his food intake, we are feeding him at the high end of the adult recommendation and not doubling it like they suggest for puppies. We are on the quest for the right food. I tend to think that it is less of a food insensitivity for him and more of a he needs lots of fiber. 

His poops were OK on the Science Diet Puppy food when we first brought him home and then ok on the Science Diet Lamb and Rice. They were always soft and the last one of the day was soupy so we started looking for a food that would deal with that. We tried higher protein food and we ended up with an OK morning poop and everything else liquid. The last one we tried lead to pooping in the house because he could not hold it. He had not had an accident in the house for 2 months and has not had an accident since we changed him back to the prescription food.

So the search continues. We will try Taste of the Wild (4% fiber which matches the fiber in the prescription food but better ingredients) starting next week and all of his dog treats are 5% fiber or more.


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

FYI-- one of your tips, Amy, suggested canned air to discipline a cat who is being really naughty.  Nothing else has worked-- water, distraction, moving him, locking him up.  The canned air DOES. He hates it.  We tried it ourselves to see what he felt, then used it on him in the middle of his back.  He hates it so much we just have to get the can and he moves from the door and stops whining.    Thanks!!


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

caseyf6 said:


> FYI-- one of your tips, Amy, suggested canned air to discipline a cat who is being really naughty. Nothing else has worked-- water, distraction, moving him, locking him up. The canned air DOES. He hates it. We tried it ourselves to see what he felt, then used it on him in the middle of his back. He hates it so much we just have to get the can and he moves from the door and stops whining.  Thanks!!





caseyf6 said:


> LOL! Glad you found something to deter him. Every kitty is different. My cat Seren LIKES to be squirted with water. Go figure.
> FYI-- one of your tips, Amy, suggested canned air to discipline a cat who is being really naughty. Nothing else has worked-- water, distraction, moving him, locking him up. The canned air DOES. He hates it. We tried it ourselves to see what he felt, then used it on him in the middle of his back. He hates it so much we just have to get the can and he moves from the door and stops whining.  Thanks!!


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

Amyshojai said:


> Hi Beatrice,
> 
> If your vet isn't worried then you probably don't need to worry--BUT it is aggravating. Little guys like Yorkies often can't eat lots at one time, so several small meals over the day work better than one big meal. Adding plain yogurt or a doggy "digestive enzyme" might help, and not changing food also is a big issue with ify tummies.


Maybe that's the answer. I give her one big meal and she wolfs it down. I'll try a smaller one in the morning and the rest in the evening. She eats Pedigree can food (not always) sometimes I give her chicken, without any spices, of course and she loves it. I also give her white rice mixed with her dry food. I found that you can't change too many things on their diets. These little guys are really delicate although she's bigger than a Yorkie and she's stronger, but thanks a lot for the input.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Beatrice, compare the ingredients on your Pedigree food to the ingredients on Natural Balance, Blue Buffalo, Taste of the Wild, Instinct, Orijen, Wellness, Fromm and some of the other "high end" dog foods. I think you will find that the ingredients list is very different.

Multiple meals is something my vet recommended no matter what age the dog is.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Paws crossed. We are  trying to transition Cooper again. This time it is Taste of Wild Lamb mix. We are starting small, 1 1/2 cups of the prescription and 1/4 cup of the Taste of Wild to start. So far good poops after two meals. 

We will up it to 1/2 cup of Taste of Wild on Thursday and see how it goes. I think we are aiming for the worlds slowest transistion.


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## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon) (Jan 19, 2011)

No pet, no question, no vet. Long time back I had 2 dogs. You need a big house to do it.


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

Can food is not good for dogs.  I found out the hard way.  My Yorkiepoo kept having bm's all day long on can food.  I'm feeding her broiled chicken, beef and dry food and she's doing much better.  Can food is definitely not good for them.  I'm going to try to wean my cats off the cans too and just give them what I give the doggie with their own dry food.


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

Beatrice Brusic said:


> Can food is not good for dogs. I found out the hard way. My Yorkiepoo kept having bm's all day long on can food. I'm feeding her broiled chicken, beef and dry food and she's doing much better. Can food is definitely not good for them. I'm going to try to wean my cats off the cans too and just give them what I give the doggie with their own dry food.


My dog thinks that she should always have canned dog food. She's always upset w/ me when I give her dry dog food. She gets canned 1x a month and that's when she gets her heart worm meds. That's only b/c she's the only dog or cat I've ever had that I could get to swallow the stupid pill.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Canned food CAN be very rich--for some dogs. Probably mixing canned with dry works better for those with ify digestion since the dry offers more fiber. If you add fiber/carbs to canned foods, the processing makes it come out like a hockey puck, LOL!

Actually for cats, though, canned food gets high marks because it's much higher in protein and contains 70%-plus moisture, very good for kitty urinary health.


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## Beatriz (Feb 22, 2011)

Amyshojai said:


> Canned food CAN be very rich--for some dogs. Probably mixing canned with dry works better for those with ify digestion since the dry offers more fiber. If you add fiber/carbs to canned foods, the processing makes it come out like a hockey puck, LOL!
> 
> Actually for cats, though, canned food gets high marks because it's much higher in protein and contains 70%-plus moisture, very good for kitty urinary health.


Thanks for the tip. I won't take my kiddies off the can food then. I only give them a little each day mixed with their dry food anyway.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

Beatrice Brusic said:


> Can food is not good for dogs. I found out the hard way. My Yorkiepoo kept having bm's all day long on can food. I'm feeding her broiled chicken, beef and dry food and she's doing much better. Can food is definitely not good for them. I'm going to try to wean my cats off the cans too and just give them what I give the doggie with their own dry food.


This isn't true that canned dog food is bad for dogs. Some dogs don't digest it well, others do. There are many good, healthy canned dog foods available. Good canned foods with healthy ingredients include the brands by: Merrick, Weruva, Evo, Instinct, California Natural, Natural Balance, Additiction, Blue Buffalo, BG (Before Grain) and Evangers. We often suggest customers mix a spoon of wet with the dry food they feed their dog, especially if the dog gets bored easily with it's daily food. A different flavour of canned food every few days keeps up their interest. There are many "stews" and "pate" forms of canned food. Some dogs prefer pate and some stews many like both. Many of the local vets are sending their "patients" to us for their nutritional needs; we deal with "sick" dogs and cats and their eating habits daily recommending canned, dry kibble, dehydrated and raw frozen foods as appropriate for each dog's (and cat's) nutritional/health needs.

Canned foods are often (depending on the individual animal and it particular health issue) better for cats because it gives them addtional moisture they need. Cats don't drink as much fluids as dogs and they get much of the moisture they need from their wet foods. There is a great article (very long) about the benefits of wet food for cats, especially those with urinary tract issues (altho' not all vets or animal health professional agree with this).

It often a balancing act to give your pet the best and healthiest food you can afford and keep them interested in eating it (and have the food work well with their digestive systems). If they don't eat it it doesn't do much good.


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

We had to give our old kitty a can all to herself when her kidneys began shutting down-- we made it the prescription type so she could process it better, and she got more fluids that way.

I have also heard, for cats, that a little bit of canned food can help keep them from binging so much on the dry food, and help with weight that way.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Cooper is up to 1/2 cup of the Taste of Wild. He had two days of one good poop one not so good poop and then had two days of good poops. So we are at 25% of his food is something that I would like to feed him and 75% of his food is prescription. 

Since he has already had the bad poops, should we expect more bad poops as we increase the food amount or will the four days at 20% new food have allowed him to develop the necessary digestive enzymes to make the rest of the transition smooth? We are keeping him on 25% Taste of the Wild through the weekend. I am hoping for good poops and then being able to move to 50% straight from 25%. Am I being too optimistic?

Caya is unfortuently teaching him how to catch stink bugs which I am sure is not good for him.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

I'm not sure what you mean by "develop the necessary digestive enzymes".  There are digestive enzyme supplements (Prozyme is one) that help some dogs.  But I don't think changing foods makes a dog develop more of them on his own.

I'd aim for at least three or four consecutive days of good poop before increasing the amount of TOTW.  And I wouldn't jump from 25 to 50 percent at once.  I'd first go one-third of the TOTW and two-thirds of the prescription food for a few days.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Ditto what Pawz says.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks. 

I thought I had read somewhere that different types of foods used different types of digestive enzymes and that the poop problems where because some dogs had problems with the level of a certain type of enzyme. The slow transition was suppose to help them develop the right amount of enzyme. I probably misread something.

So hopefully (fingers crossed) on Monday we will be able to go to 1 cup of prescription and 1/2 cup of Taste of Wild.

Thanks


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

I've not heard, either, of food changes making dogs develop digestive enzymes without the addition of supplemental enzymes.  There are various brands of enzyme supplements available.

Some dogs just require a slower transition to a new food, even as slow as 1/4 cup increments over 5 or 6 days (or even longer).  It's best to only add more new food and less old food when the poops are consistently normal for a couple of days.  We have a few customers who have taken a month  or more to transition their dog to a new food.  Every dog is different, even siblings can react differently to foods.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

We are moving up by 1/4 cup increments after three days of solid poops. At least, we are after reading the responses here. We had done that with the first two food additions and will continue to do so.


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

Our pug Gizmo was 2ish when we got her.  It was obvious from the get go that she was used to canned food, but due to financial constrants (a 10 lb bag is cheaper than canned) and the fact that DH and I both believe it's better for the dog, we've been feeding her dry dog food.  Gizmo has lived w/ us for over 6 months and she is still pouting that we don't feed her canned.  She gets canned food every month when I give her her heartworm pill (b/c I can't get her to take it otherwise) and she gets people food occasionally (we have a 2 yr old who thinks it's hilarious to feed the dog).  The problem is, we've noticed she's been losing weight, which wasn't too big of a problem when we 1st got her, she was a little chunky, but now she's getting too skinny.  I've tried to up the food, but she doesn't like it.  I've yet to find a treat that she'll eat as anything other than a last resort.  Is there any way to get her to gain some weight?  We've changed foods around, but she doesn't like dry dog food.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

There are a couple of schools of thought on dogs who won't readily eat kibble.

The first one is that a dog won't starve himself/herself, so put the food down and if it's not eaten within twenty minutes take it up until next meal time.  And so on until the dog learns that the kibble is all that's ever going to be there and gives up and starts eating it.  I personally don't understand this approach at all.  I wouldn't want to be forced to eat something I don't like, especially not forever and ever, day after day, year after year.  I don't force my kids to eat things they don't like.  Why would it do it to a dog?  Also, I'm not entirely convinced that some dogs won't starve themselves to death.

The second approach is to mix a little something in with the dry food to make it more interesting and palatable.  Canned food is certainly an option for that.  For most dogs it just takes a spoonful or two mixed in with the kibble, and maybe a little warm water added to make "gravy".

If you don't mind giving dogs "people" food (I'm a huge believer in lots of healthy "people" food for dogs), then you can mix in things like a little boiled egg, yogurt, cottage cheese, canned salmon or tuna, leftover bits of chicken or steak that don't have a lot of seasoning, leftover plain veggies, etc.  The danger of this approach as some people see it is that you may end up with a dog who will forevermore refuse to eat plain kibble.  I personally don't see a problem with that, as in my opinion kibble alone is a very unhealthy diet.  I mean really, would any of us eat nothing but the same highly-processed, dehydrated food our entire life, with absolutely no variety?  I know I wouldn't.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Caya gets No Salt added green beans with her meals. We have also given her bean sprouts. She likes them, it makes the food a little moist, and she feels like she has had a larger meal without the extra calories. We are trying to get her to drop to 45 pounds from 50 pounds, she is half way there, and the veggies have been a good way of doing this. I have been told that carrots work well. Both the dogs enjoy peppers.

We are trying to avoid feeding human food to Cooper while he is transitioning dog foods but he will happily gobble up veggies.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Alle Meine Entchen said:


> Our pug Gizmo ...now she's getting too skinny. I've tried to up the food, but she doesn't like it. I've yet to find a treat that she'll eat as anything other than a last resort. Is there any way to get her to gain some weight? We've changed foods around, but she doesn't like dry dog food.


A skinny Pug? Yikes, that's just wrong. *s* Really it depends on the formulation of the dry food. Some little dogs just can eat enough volume to sustain weight on some formulas and that was great for when the dog needed to slim down. But now, you may need to go to a more calorie-dense dry food like a performance diet. Or even a puppy food (same brand, same volume but has more calories). Drizzling a bit of no-salt warm chicken broth often increases the amount a dog will eat, too.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Is it sad that I am thrilled that Cooper is at 33% Taste of Wild and his poops are still good? 

If I am this obsessed with my puppies poops, I am in deep dodo when I have human children.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

"...in deep dodo..." teehee, snort, snicker, giggle!


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## Schnauzermom (Apr 29, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> Is it sad that I am thrilled that Cooper is at 33% Taste of Wild and his poops are still good?
> 
> If I am this obsessed with my puppies poops, I am in deep dodo when I have human children.


 

At least you're in good company, eh?


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Ya know, I was just thinking how similar this thread is (re: pee & poop) to my cat-  and dog- email lists, LOL! And I know how to talk about it on TV about a 100 different ways without getting bleeped.


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## Schnauzermom (Apr 29, 2010)

That could be a very useful skill!!!


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> Is it sad that I am thrilled that Cooper is at 33% Taste of Wild and his poops are still good?
> 
> If I am this obsessed with my puppies poops, I am in deep dodo when I have human children.


  DH and DS have conversations with customers about their pets poops at least a dozen or more times each day. Somehow the subject ALWAYS comes up in a discussion of food and nutrition.  It's part of normal conversation in our house...isn't that weird?!


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## spotsmom (Jan 20, 2011)

ProfCrash, there is an excellent publication called "Whole Dog Journal".  Kinda like Consumer Reports but for dogs.  Every year they do a list of dog foods they recommend.  they NEVER, repeat NEVER endorse Science Diet.  Orijen and Arcada are currently the best foods that we know are quality.  Tatiana is giving you excellent advice.  Our Golden rescue group puts out a great article on how to tell if the food you bought is good.  If you PM me, I'll send it to you.

As for folks with dogs trying to lose weight, I highly recommend EVO's weight control food.  I gave it to my dog who needed to lose 10 pounds and within a few months she had lost it.  I currently have a Golden who needs to maintain his weight so I add green beans to his food.  Gives them a feeling of fullness, but no calories.  Canned pumpkin does the same thing.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks spotsmom. The Taste of Wild is working well. We are at 33% new food and 66% prescription food. There has not been any bad poop since the initial 20% new food. We will move him up to 50% new food on Tuesday if he continues to have good poops. Today marks the 7 day mark on the transition. I think that the holistic enzymes that we have been adding to his food and taking it pretty gradually has helped a lot. The last few times we tried this we tried with a 7 day transition plan and that was a disaster.

Caya put on a few extra pounds over the winter because we were lazy and didn't walk her enough. It was cold, dark, and yucky and we got lazy. Once she started getting outside and playing with the nice weather she started dropping weight pretty fast. We are outside with the dogs a lot more now. I'll sit on the deck and read while the dogs will chase each other, chase balls, and find something to bark at.

We are using green beans with Caya right now. She gets 1 1/2 cups of Wilderness Salmon a day plus 1 cup of green beans a day. We are aiming for 45 pounds. Cooper is getting 3 1/2 cups of food a day. He is 9 months old and 47.5 pounds. We will drop him to 3 cups when we get him fully transitioned.


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## spotsmom (Jan 20, 2011)

Glad to hear things are going well.  I will be really happy (and so will your wallet) when you get your dog off Science Diet.  People think it must be wonderful because vets sell it, but my friend (who is a vet) says the vets make a bunch of money on that stuff.  I had a Golden Retriever with stomach issues and he did great on Taste of the Wild's bison.

BTW, the worst dog food that Whole Dog Journal tested is Beneful by Purina.  Protein comes from corn, corn gluten meal, and soy protein.  So little fresh food that water is added to the dry food.  And sugar is the 10th ingredient!


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

Poor Jack had emergency surgery today for impacted anal glands. This is the second time he has needed this surgery....both times a few days after grooming. You don't even want to know what emergency surgery costs on a holiday weekend.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I hope Jack is feeling better. Is it time to change groomers?


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

ProfCrash said:


> I hope Jack is feeling better. Is it time to change groomers?


This was a new groomer. He is very skilled in the dog world, and told us he did not think there would be a problem, but because of past history he told us to watch it. I think from now on we will just tell the groomer not to express the glands.


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## caseyf6 (Mar 28, 2010)

Poor Jack!  Oh, wow.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Does anyone know how to get a reluctant Saint Bernard interested in swimming. Zeno, is almost three and his elbows are severly damaged since birth. He is not allowed to go for walks like regular dogs. He may be able to get surgery later, but right now they don't have a part big eneough for him. There are other problems with surgery also. The vets have recommended hydrotherapy. Zeno can swim, but the pool is a very frightening experience for him although he is in it with two vet techs. Does anyone have any unusual ideas? Also does anyone know a dog who has had stem cell treatment? What for? How did it work?
We use Precise for Zeno who used to poop and poop. It has beet in it and that has fixed his problem.

Ann


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I have no experience with this but would it help him if you got into the tank with him a few times?

I am glad that Jack is doing better. Has the Vet told you why he needs hie anal glands expressed? I know our vet expressed Coopers (talk about an awful smell) in the office when we were discussing his poop problems. Since Cooper had not been having good poops, his glands were clogged.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

ProfCrash said:


> I am glad that Jack is doing better. Has the Vet told you why he needs hie anal glands expressed? I know our vet expressed Coopers (talk about an awful smell) in the office when we were discussing his poop problems. Since Cooper had not been having good poops, his glands were clogged.


Groomers seem to routinely express anal glands. This time the groomer said he hardly had anything to express. His poops have always been good. Next time he is groomed, we will ask the groomer not to express the glands, just to see if that is what causing the impaction.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> Does anyone know how to get a reluctant Saint Bernard interested in swimming. Zeno, is almost three and his elbows are severly damaged since birth. He is not allowed to go for walks like regular dogs. He may be able to get surgery later, but right now they don't have a part big eneough for him. There are other problems with surgery also. The vets have recommended hydrotherapy. Zeno can swim, but the pool is a very frightening experience for him although he is in it with two vet techs. Does anyone have any unusual ideas? Also does anyone know a dog who has had stem cell treatment? What for? How did it work?
> We use Precise for Zeno who used to poop and poop. It has beet in it and that has fixed his problem.
> 
> Ann


Have you tried Adequan injections? That has some marvelous benefits for mastiff-type dogs with elbow/shoulder issues. And yes, the stem cell treatments have gotten good reviews as well (researched that in the 'cutting edge' book).

I suspect Zeno's fear of the pool has to do with getting in and out--it's like stepping off a cliff! Is there a way to create or use shallow steps into/out of the water, and mark these visually (darker color that shows under the water). I've much more detailed articles elsewhere (not online) but some tips are included in my blog: http://amyshojai.com/2011/03/23/woof-wednesday-water-works-writing-ahead/


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

OK - here is my question. 

My father's cat - a 7 year old Burmese - is VERY overweight.  His brother (who eats the same amount, same food) is just a little bit overweight.  This cat has developed health problems because of his weight and I'm quite worried about him. 

Problem is, I dont live with my father, and I've only recently got him to reduce the amount he feeds the cats.  I also suspect that even with a much reduced amount, that cat is still going to get fat - is there anything else we can do?  My father feeds them on Hills KD.  Here in South Africa we have a VERY LIMITED range of foods available!

My father did recently get a kitten, and hopefully Balthazar will get more exercise as he runs away from her attempts to bite his ears and play with his tail!


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Jane917 said:


> Groomers seem to routinely express anal glands. This time the groomer said he hardly had anything to express. His poops have always been good. Next time he is groomed, we will ask the groomer not to express the glands, just to see if that is what causing the impaction.


Good to know. I had no clue that they did that. I thought glands were only expressed when the dog was having problems with pooping. Poor little guy.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

mashadutoit said:


> Problem is, I dont live with my father, and I've only recently got him to reduce the amount he feeds the cats. I also suspect that even with a much reduced amount, that cat is still going to get fat - is there anything else we can do? My father feeds them on Hills KD. Here in South Africa we have a VERY LIMITED range of foods available!


If Balthazar is eating kibble, would your father consider switching him to canned (assuming the canned version of KD is available)? Many people find it's MUCH easier to get their cats to lose weight or maintain a healthy weight on canned food than on kibble.

If your father isn't already feeding the cats separately, so Balthazar can't bully the other cat or kitten away and eat their share of the food, then have him start doing that.

And invest in some toys -- the "fishing pole" type, a laser pointer, even an old shoestring. Even if it's just a few minutes a couple of times a day, any extra exercise will help.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks!  I suspect there may be a canned version...
I'll suggest that to my father.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

KD does come in canned in the US, and hopefully it will in your dad's region, too. 

Also, as Pawz4me has mentioned, the older cat may be grazing from the kitten's food--and kitten food has nearly double the calories. Kittens often do well "grazing" and having food out all the time and it can be hard to meal-feed in those instances. You can create a nifty feeding station, though, with a big transluscent storage bin. Cut a kitten-size hole in the side that the fat cat can't get through, and put the kitten's food bowl inside.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Amyshojai said:


> KD does come in canned in the US, and hopefully it will in your dad's region, too.
> 
> Also, as Pawz4me has mentioned, the older cat may be grazing from the kitten's food--and kitten food has nearly double the calories. Kittens often do well "grazing" and having food out all the time and it can be hard to meal-feed in those instances. You can create a nifty feeding station, though, with a big transluscent storage bin. Cut a kitten-size hole in the side that the fat cat can't get through, and put the kitten's food bowl inside.


As far as I know, Balthazar does not have a chance to eat the kitten's food. She gets fed of fresh chicken at the moment, and scarfs it all up in no time! But it is worth keeping an eye. I love the idea of having a "skinny cats only " access to the food!

The kitten is giving him a lot of exercise, it's very good to see. He is such a good natured cat. But I do suspect he may be stealing food from the neighbor's cat. I've told the woman who lives next door to spray him with her hosepipe if she sees him, as I cant think how else to disuade him! She has complained that he bullies her cats.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Thanks for your reply, Amy. Hadn't heard about Adequan. Read your blog I'll remember about the steps if we ever get a small pool for the dog.
Ann


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Day 10 and Cooper is on a 50/50 split of his dog food. So far only two bad days and those where at the 20% level. On Saturday we will move to 2/3 Taste of Wild and 1/3 Prescription and stay there until the prescription runs out.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

ProfCrash, that's very encouraging! Paws crossed...


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## susan67 (Mar 18, 2011)

I have a Brussels Griffon and she is having issues with scratching, chewing, and losing hair. Couple months ago this started and my first thought was food allergy so I put her on Natural Balance LID duck and potato. She seemed to improve and her hair grew back. Spring hit here in Florida and we started getting fleas so I started her on Frontline plus...3 months of that, no improvement and just a bad flea infestation. I then took her to the vet and put her on Comfortis. Fleas were gone in no time at all and the only time I see any at all is maybe one or two when she is due for the next pill. I am amazed at how well the Comfortis worked considering how bad the fleas were this year. However, she is still biting and scratching and losing hair. Should I try another food? Anything else I can try before going to see the vet again? Is there anything I can do at home for a skin infection? Only reason I ask is we just had to have my Bengal to the vet for illness, and cash is a little tight at the moment, but if the vet is the only and best option I will definitely do that. 
Thanks for any advice!


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Call your vet and see if they can't give you some advice over the phone. Mine has done that for us while dealing with Cooper and his poops.

I have found that the Vet Techs seem to know more about food then our Vet. The Vet keeps recommending the Purina Pro Plan, it is the only food recommendation she has given us, but the Vet Techs mentioned the Natural Balance, Taste of the Wild, Blue Buffalo, and the like. The advice from the Vet Techs has been closer to the advice I have gotten from this board.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

susan67 said:


> I have a Brussels Griffon and she is having issues with scratching, chewing, and losing hair. Couple months ago this started and my first thought was food allergy so I put her on Natural Balance LID duck and potato. She seemed to improve and her hair grew back. Spring hit here in Florida and we started getting fleas so I started her on Frontline plus...3 months of that, no improvement and just a bad flea infestation. I then took her to the vet and put her on Comfortis. Fleas were gone in no time at all and the only time I see any at all is maybe one or two when she is due for the next pill. I am amazed at how well the Comfortis worked considering how bad the fleas were this year. However, she is still biting and scratching and losing hair. Should I try another food? Anything else I can try before going to see the vet again? Is there anything I can do at home for a skin infection? Only reason I ask is we just had to have my Bengal to the vet for illness, and cash is a little tight at the moment, but if the vet is the only and best option I will definitely do that.
> Thanks for any advice!


If it all started a couple of months ago, then I would be thinking inhalant (pollen) allergies, which are very common in dogs. The most common type of allergy in dogs is to flea bites. Just one bite from one flea can make an allergic dog miserable for weeks. Despite all the attention they get, true food allergies are statistically relatively rare compared to inhalant and flea allergies.

For inhalant allergies the first step is usually starting the dog on an antihistamine. There are several that can be used for dogs, and it's usually a trial-and-error process to find the one that works best for any given dog. Benadryl (generic diphenhydramine) is what most vets recommend to begin with. It's inexpensive and most people already have it on hand. The general dosage is 1 to 2 milligrams per pound of body weight given two or three times a day. If after a couple of weeks you can't tell any improvement, then you move on and try another antihistamine. Bathing frequently, as often as every two or three days, with a mild shampoo will wash off pollen that accumulates on the fur. If you can't do a full bath, just hosing off or wiping down with a damp towel frequently can help. You can also try supplementing with fish oil, as much as 1,000 mg. per 10 pounds of body weight. It can help with the inflammation associated with allergies, and studies suggest that antihistamines may be more effective when given with fish oil.

You may want to ask your vet about some kind of dual flea control, since they certainly appear to be a problem. I don't know if Capstar can be given along with a topical product (Frontline, Advantage, etc.). I'd ask your vet about it. You might also consider treating your yard with something.

If her skin really is infected, she'll need to see the vet for antibiotics. Unfortunately, secondary bacterial infections occur frequently in allergy dogs. They itch and scratch from the allergies, the itching and scratching damages the skin, which allows the bacteria normally present on the skin to "take over". And then the skin infection causes even more itchiness. It can be a vicious cycle.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

susan67 said:


> I have a Brussels Griffon and she is having issues with scratching, chewing, and losing hair. Couple months ago this started and my first thought was food allergy so I put her on Natural Balance LID duck and potato. She seemed to improve and her hair grew back. Spring hit here in Florida and we started getting fleas so I started her on Frontline plus...3 months of that, no improvement and just a bad flea infestation. I then took her to the vet and put her on Comfortis. Fleas were gone in no time at all and the only time I see any at all is maybe one or two when she is due for the next pill. I am amazed at how well the Comfortis worked considering how bad the fleas were this year. However, she is still biting and scratching and losing hair. Should I try another food? Anything else I can try before going to see the vet again? Is there anything I can do at home for a skin infection? Only reason I ask is we just had to have my Bengal to the vet for illness, and cash is a little tight at the moment, but if the vet is the only and best option I will definitely do that.
> Thanks for any advice!


Food allergies are tough to diagnose, and even tougher to solve. The ONLY way to truly get a diagnosis is with a food elimination trial supervised by the vet. There are way too many ingredients (some hidden) in commercial foods and treats that can set off the dog.

Where does the dog scratch/itch and lose hair? Location can help and be diagnostic. Back half (above the tail especially) often points to fleas. Feet and "armpits" generally point to atopy--but atopy in cats comes out in miliary dermatitis (tiny scabby bumps all over). Food often is all-over (except in cats, where it's the face).

From what you describe (putting my hand on the Internet crystal ball, LOL!) since this is seasonal I suspect this is atopy...an inhalant allergic reaction from pollens and other inhaled "stuff" rather than ingested food. What happens with allergic dogs is that often they have multiple sensitivities. Think of it like a glass filled with allergens and each new one added to the glass raises the level until it overflows--and the dog itches. But if you can reduce some of the allergens--fleas, for instance--that can drop the reaction below the itch-threshold.

If it IS atopy, simply rinsing the dog off can help because fur acts like a dust mop and traps dust, pollen, etc so the poor dog WEARS what he's allergic to. Rinse his feet when he comes inside--the allergens can be absorbed through the toe/webbing and cause reactions.

That's a quick-and-dirty answer, lots more involved, of course. Good luck--a vet visit really is the best way to go to pinpoint what's happening.


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## susan67 (Mar 18, 2011)

I thought bathing was to harsh on their skin and coat to do often?
I was actually wondering if adding an oil to her food might help...I will have to try the fish oil. Is it labeled fish oil or do I need to look for a specific fish oil...such as Salmon? I can also try the Benadryl...I have heard of using that before.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Soap can be drying if not rinsed off. Just rinsing with water won't dry the coat. For the fish oil, look for something that's called Omega 3 Fatty Acids (in fish oils, evening primrose, etc). That can help a dry coat somewhat, too. Benadryl has a neat side effect--it makes pets sleepy so the dog might not scratch quite as much.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Frequent bathing is absolutely fine as long as you use a good quality shampoo, lukewarm water and rinse well.

I think the notion that frequent bathing will dry a dog's coat out stems from decades ago when pet shampoos were extremely harsh and drying.  That's just not the case anymore, there are lots of high-quality pet grooming products available.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Kong sells dog wipes that you might be able to use instead of bathing.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I am going to buy a large bag of Taste of Wild for Cooper. He has a little bit left and his poops are doing fine. We will be upping him to 66% TOTW this weekend and finish out the prescription food. Then move him to 100% TOTW.

Caya is going to be disappointed, she is down to only two foods mixed together for her. A Lamb and Rice from Science Diet and Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon. For a while she was eating five different foods mixed together. The real question is do we want to move Caya to TOTW with Cooper. The Wilderness Salmon has 35% Protein and she is fine with that. The TOWT has 24% protein. I am not sure that I want to drop her down. We still have a ton of the Science Diet Lamb and Rice (we bought a large bag before trying the Wilderness Salmon for Cooper) so it will be about a month or so before we have to make a decision.

The Science Diet was Natures Best Lamb and Rice, not the regular Lamb and Rice.


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Love this thread! Still missing my Harley (passed away in April). Beginning to "think" about getting another dog. Harley was allergic to wheat which made it very hard to find food, especially treats, for him 10 years ago. So glad there are more options today. I have already decided that when I do get a new dog/puppy, they will be on gluten free food from the beginning. Harley's immune system turned on him and eventually caused his organs to shut down. From the research I have done, allergies played a big part in what damaged his spleen and kidneys. I am all for allergy free foods.

On the issues of chewing, we always provided approved chew toys and would trade Harley a toy for whatever item he shouldn't be chewing without scolding. His favorite was an old leather work glove that belonged to my hubby.

Prof, glad to know that Cooper is doing better!


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

We'll be getting a second puppy, a Scottish Terrier,  soon to keep our current one company.  We have a 3yo Brindle (Wheaten/Black mix) and will be getting a black one this time.  It will, most likely, be a half sibling to our current dog as we'll get it from the same Scottie breeder (not a puppy mill but a reputable breeder).  This little dog will eat either Origen (by Champion Pet Foods of Canada) kibble or a frozen (thawed   ) raw meat diet (either Primal, Nature's Variety Instinct, Bravo, Stella & Cheweys, or Furry Foodies) from the start.  We haven't decided yet.  DH and DS are in the "discussion" phase   of the decision and it could take weeks until they come to a final decision.  The breeder feeds (or did in 200 Purina   but that ain't happening in this house!!!  :    Our current Scottie is currently on a raw meat diet - Stella & Cheweys at the present time.

Since the litter of puppies are only four weeks old it will be a while before we get him.  Now, not only do DH and DS have to come to an agreement on food, but we have to decide on a name.  DH named our current Scottie so I think I'm going to name this one.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Angela said:


> Love this thread! Still missing my Harley (passed away in April). Beginning to "think" about getting another dog. Harley was allergic to wheat which made it very hard to find food, especially treats, for him 10 years ago. So glad there are more options today. I have already decided that when I do get a new dog/puppy, they will be on gluten free food from the beginning. Harley's immune system turned on him and eventually caused his organs to shut down. From the research I have done, allergies played a big part in what damaged his spleen and kidneys. I am all for allergy free foods.


So sorry for your loss--and sorry that Harley had allergy issues. Just FYI...there is no such thing as "allergy free" foods. *s* For a dog (or person) to develop an allergy they must first be exposed to it. That's why unique ingredients (duck, rabbit, sweet potato) are ingredients in "allergy" foods--since pets haven't been exposed they won't react to those particular ingredients. That's not to say that over time they won't also develop sensitivities to duck, rabbit or sweet potato. Usually it's a protein source (beef, chicken, corn, etc) that causes problems.

It used to be lamb was rarely fed to pets in the US so lamb became the "allergy food" of the day (meanwhile in Australia where lamb often was fed, dogs were allergic to lamb!).

The tendency for allergies is heritable. So one of the best ways to prepare is ask the breeder about the parents.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Tatiana said:


> We'll be getting a second puppy, a Scottish Terrier, soon to keep our current one company. We have a 3yo Brindle (Wheaten/Black mix) and will be getting a black one this time. It will, most likely, be a half sibling to our current dog as we'll get it from the same Scottie breeder (not a puppy mill but a reputable breeder). This little dog will eat either Origen (by Champion Pet Foods of Canada) kibble or a frozen (thawed  ) raw meat diet (either Primal, Nature's Variety Instinct, Bravo, Stella & Cheweys, or Furry Foodies) from the start. We haven't decided yet. DH and DS are in the "discussion" phase  of the decision and it could take weeks until they come to a final decision. The breeder feeds (or did in 200 Purina  but that ain't happening in this house!!! :   Our current Scottie is currently on a raw meat diet - Stella & Cheweys at the present time.
> 
> Since the litter of puppies are only four weeks old it will be a while before we get him. Now, not only do DH and DS have to come to an agreement on food, but we have to decide on a name. DH named our current Scottie so I think I'm going to name this one.


Awwww....don't think I've ever seen a Scottie puppy, you'll have to post pictures!


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Yeah new puppy!

It is going to be a good long while before we have another puppy in this house. At least it had better be a good long while before we have another puppy in this house.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

So we were down to about 4 days worth of prescription dog food at 2/3 ToTW and 1/3 prescription when my husband decides "Lets drop it to 3/4 ToTW and 1/4 prescription". I think we have about 3 days worth of food at that ratio and Cooper will be fully on Taste of the Wild. It will have taken 25 days to make the transition.

And Caya is happily chomping on whatever she can get her paws on. (sigh)

They are good puppies. They make me smile.

Now to figure out how to socialize Cooper better with other dogs. Off leash he barks and runs away. On leash he barks and lunges and is difficult to distract. We have tried walking him with treats and his favorite squeaky ball but even then he barks at just about every dog and lunges to get at them. I know he wants to play but a 50 pound German Shepard, Husky, Lab mix sounds and looks reasonably intimidating to most folks.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> Now to figure out how to socialize Cooper better with other dogs. Off leash he barks and runs away. On leash he barks and lunges and is difficult to distract. We have tried walking him with treats and his favorite squeaky ball but even then he barks at just about every dog and lunges to get at them. I know he wants to play but a 50 pound German Shepard, Husky, Lab mix sounds and looks reasonably intimidating to most folks.


Great on the food! As for the leash lunging, it's helpful to get a partner-in-canine-crime and "stage" some meetings. Figure out what the trigger distance is for Cooper and keep beyond that at first, with parallel walking (you walking Cooper, somebody else the other dog at a distance). Keep Cooper focused on toy/treat. Then with each pass, come just a weeee bit closer. If Cooper barks, back it up a bit. It can take time with very small incremental steps until he's more dog-tolerant in shorter distances.

That's the short course tip anyway. *s*


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