# Times New Roman or Garamond for ebook text?



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

Should I go with TNR 12 point or Garamond 12 to set as my default font in the ebook text? Is there one that most people are going with?


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

I use Garamond for print and digital.


----------



## CMTheAuthor (Dec 6, 2012)

Depends on what platform you're using to publish. Some won't accept anything but simple text fonts like Times New Roman or Arial. Some also automatically convert the font anyway, so it doesn't matter what you do.

Assuming those are not issues, though, you're free to do whatever you want. Both fonts work, so the question then would be what do you think readers would find more aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

CMTheAuthor said:


> Depends on what platform you're using to publish. Some won't accept anything but simple text fonts like Times New Roman or Arial. Some also automatically convert the font anyway, so it doesn't matter what you do.
> 
> Assuming those are not issues, though, you're free to do whatever you want. Both fonts work, so the question then would be what do you think readers would find more aesthetically pleasing.


I like Garamond more than Times. But if I set to Garamond and the ereader doesn't have Garamond and instead converts the font to something horrible like Courier, blech. I guess I'll just use Times. I'm probably thinking about this too much.


----------



## Adam Poe (Apr 2, 2012)

Hmmm.. I used Georgia


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

AnneEton said:


> I like Garamond more than Times. But if I set to Garamond and the ereader doesn't have Garamond and instead converts the font to something horrible like Courier, blech. I guess I'll just use Times. I'm probably thinking about this too much.


Depending what you're using to produce your ebook, it's quite possible to set a preferred font and then a fall-back font (that's how HTML/CSS always works, and those are the foundation of epub).

So my ebooks are formatted to use Garamond if it's available, something from the Times font family if Garamond isn't available, and (as an absolute fallback) whatever default serif font is available.

Edit: In CSS, that looks like this:


```
p {
  font-family: Garamond,"Times New Roman",serif;
}
```


----------



## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Don't set a font for your ebook. It can cause display errors on some ereaders, and it ticks readers off.


----------



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

Aaron Pogue said:


> Depending what you're using to produce your ebook, it's quite possible to set a preferred font and then a fall-back font (that's how HTML/CSS always works, and those are the foundation of epub).
> 
> So my ebooks are formatted to use Garamond if it's available, something from the Times font family if Garamond isn't available, and (as an absolute fallback) whatever default serif font is available.
> 
> ...


Supercool. Thanks!


----------



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

smreine said:


> Don't set a font for your ebook. It can cause display errors on some ereaders, and it ticks readers off.


But I thought I had to... I guess I don't? I'm using Scrivener to compile. Aaaaaaaaarg.


----------



## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

AnneEton said:


> But I thought I had to... I guess I don't? I'm using Scrivener to compile. Aaaaaaaaarg.


Ah. In that case, I don't know. I'm told Scrivener compiles ebooks well, so I imagine that the font issue is addressed somehow, either way.

I hand-code my ebooks, so I just don't put in anything about font families.


----------



## shalym (Sep 1, 2010)

smreine said:


> Don't set a font for your ebook. It can cause display errors on some ereaders, and it ticks readers off.


THIS

Please don't specify a font type or size, unless you want to get reviews complaining about the formatting of your book.

Shari


----------



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

smreine said:


> Ah. In that case, I don't know. I'm told Scrivener compiles ebooks well, so I imagine that the font issue is addressed somehow, either way.
> 
> I hand-code my ebooks, so I just don't put in anything about font families.


OK. Maybe I can get to the code and make sure there's nothing in it about fonts. Thanks.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Every ereader I know of can cleanly handle font sizes as long as they're provided as relative, not absolute (so "font-size: 1em;" or "font-size: large;" but not "font-size: 12pt;" or "font-size:16px;"). That's actually Amazon's recommendation in their KDP publishing guide.

As far as font family, I've sold nearly 200,000 copies across a couple dozen titles using the fall-through CSS above, and never had any customer complaints about formatting. Maybe I'm just dealing with a forgiving audience.


----------



## shalym (Sep 1, 2010)

Aaron Pogue said:


> Every ereader I know of can cleanly handle font sizes as long as they're provided as relative, not absolute (so "font-size: 1em;" or "font-size: large;" but not "font-size: 12pt;" or "font-size:16px;"). That's actually Amazon's recommendation in their KDP publishing guide.
> 
> As far as font family, I've sold nearly 200,000 copies across a couple dozen titles using the fall-through CSS above, and never had any customer complaints about formatting. Maybe I'm just dealing with a forgiving audience.


You've been lucky, then, as I just downloaded a sample of Taming Fire to my PaperWhite, and I can't change the font type from whatever you used to any of the other options on my Kindle.

Shari


----------



## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

smreine said:


> Don't set a font for your ebook. It can cause display errors on some ereaders, and it ticks readers off.


This. I dump any sample that forces the font. One of the whole benefits of a Kindle is I get to set font and font size.


----------



## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

shalym said:


> You've been lucky, then, as I just downloaded a sample of Taming Fire to my PaperWhite, and I can't change the font type from whatever you used to any of the other options on my Kindle.
> 
> Shari


I was just about to try that. 

I think this is only a problem with newer devices (since the Kindle Touch). Times and devices, they are a-changing. It's a really easy fix. Just yank that line out of your CSS. But using em for size does work great, I agree.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

ellenoc said:


> This. I dump any sample that forces the font. One of the whole benefits of a Kindle is I get to set font and font size.


Well...you get to set the font to one of three arbitrary faces chosen by the device manufacturer. Do you really like any of them more than Garamond?


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, fix it and I either return it for a refund or I won't even bother reading the book. All kindles that handle the KF8 format now, which include the touch, KK and the paperwhite, will be stuck at a font. Unfortunately for me the default on the Paperwhite is a horrible sans serif font that is just not readable to me. 

There are so many things that go wrong when authors/publishers fix the font. Sometimes the font is so tiny I would need a microscope, other times its just stuck at sans serif. I had examples of books on my KK that were stuck in a serif, but it looked stretched out just horrible to read. 

Why would you even want to do that. None of those fonts are even an option on the kindles. And even if they are, the point of ereaders is that we can change to what is comfortable to read. 

Its not about you and what you want. Its about the reader and what they want.


----------



## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Garamond for print?  Bleck.


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Aaron Pogue said:


> Well...you get to set the font to one of three arbitrary faces chosen by the device manufacturer. Do you really like any of them more than Garamond?


Your book is fixed at caecilia. My paperwhite has 6 font options, garamond is not one of them. So it goes to caecilia. Why would you purposely limit your books 

So your goal is to force a font style on people because you like it? Odd that one.


----------



## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Are you using Scrivener for the PC or for the Mac? If you're using it for the Mac it will strip out any font faces and correctly convert the sizes to percentages.

If you're using Scrivener for the PC, the current version has problems with including font code in the mobi version. You have two options. First is to download the beta 1.5.0.8 and use that--they're aware of the problems in the current release and have fixed them. The other option is to download the older version of "kindlegen" and tell Scrivener to use that instead of the current release.



> Well...you get to set the font to one of three arbitrary faces chosen by the device manufacturer. Do you really like any of them more than Garamond?


If you lock the font at something the Kindle PaperWhite doesn't have, it reverts to Helvetica. It's very very difficult to read. The best practice is definitely to remove the fonts entirely from body text and limit them to titles or tables or use only serif/sans-serif definitions.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Atunah said:


> So your goal is to force a font style on people because you like it? Odd that one.


Nah. Publishers have been in the business of making layout and design choices for centuries.

And I certainly have authors who consider some of their aesthetic choices to be an integral part of their expression. I always argue in favor of simplicity, but it's not so odd that an artist would want to manage design.

That said, you've educated me concerning some of the shortcomings of the Kindle design. I genuinely expected it to treat my design specification as a default/starting point, and allow users to override from there (just as happens with the font size). If it doesn't behave that way _and_ it isn't even rendering my preferred font, I'd prefer to leave it unset. It's easy enough to make a Kindle-specific rule in CSS.


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Aaron Pogue said:


> Nah. Publishers have been in the business of making layout and design choices for centuries.
> 
> And I certainly have authors who consider some of their aesthetic choices to be an integral part of their expression. I always argue in favor of simplicity, but it's not so odd that an artist would want to manage design.
> 
> That said, you've educated me concerning some of the shortcomings of the Kindle design. I genuinely expected it to treat my design specification as a default/starting point, and allow users to override from there (just as happens with the font size). If it doesn't behave that way _and_ it isn't even rendering my preferred font, I'd prefer to leave it unset. It's easy enough to make a Kindle-specific rule in CSS.


If you want your beloved font to be an option, you'll have to explore the publisher font option on the paperwhite. They are also on the Fire's I believe. Don't have it near me to double check. I have seen a couple of authors on here that did that. It then appears as a 7th option in the menu. I don't know how it works, or how you get garamont in there, but I am sure there must be instructions somewhere.

I wish more would take the time to learn about all these options, especially the publisher font. I have only seen 2 indy's so far that did it and a few regular publishers. Options are always the best for ereaders.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Atunah said:


> If you want your beloved font to be an option, you'll have to explore the publisher font option on the paperwhite. They are also on the Fire's I believe. Don't have it near me to double check. I have seen a couple of authors on here that did that. It then appears as a 7th option in the menu. I don't know how it works, or how you get garamont in there, but I am sure there must be instructions somewhere.


I suspect it's as simple as embedding the font in the source file. We've just learned how to do that.

That would be handy.


----------



## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Adam Poe said:


> Hmmm.. I used Georgia


I gotta say, that font's kind of annoying. Feels like it's screaming at me.


----------



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

Katie Elle said:


> Are you using Scrivener for the PC or for the Mac? If you're using it for the Mac it will strip out any font faces and correctly convert the sizes to percentages.


I'm using Scrivener for Mac.

So, the epub and mobi files that Scrivener creates don't specify fonts? When I go to Compile, in Summary, there's a section called Font with two options: "Use current compile format font settings", or "Override all fonts with face" and then a drop-down menu to select an override font. If Scrivener isn't going to specify a font, why's it telling me the font's going to be one or the other. Graaah! (sound of frustration!)


----------



## Cynthia Shepp (Dec 3, 2012)

I am an editor. (www.cynthiashepp.com) I would highly recommend that you use Times New Roman. It makes it so much easier on the editor and on the reader. If I am given a manuscript that is in any other font, I will change it to make the editing process simpler. The author is more than welcome to change it back but it makes it easier on me.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

Don't choose a specific font for an ebook; each device will have its own preferred font, and it's better to let it use that so the reader has a consistent experience. If the device respects your font choice, then to a reader it will look like your book broke with convention and you tried to do special formatting on it, which may or may not be successful.

In your CSS rules for the ebook styles, set your base font as "serif", and if you use a sans-serif font anywhere then the family should be "sans-serif" for that. Only those two, no others. It's also best to specify any size changes as relative (e.g., 120% or 1.2em for a title) rather than going with a specific size; I've heard reports of issues when the size is absolute, though that hasn't come up for me. In fact I used absolute sizes in my book (11pt being the default, with chapter titles bigger), but the mobi conversion has always looked good on a Kindle for me, and the epub version isn't up anywhere yet.


----------



## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> So, the epub and mobi files that Scrivener creates don't specify fonts? When I go to Compile, in Summary, there's a section called Font with two options: "Use current compile format font settings", or "Override all fonts with face" and then a drop-down menu to select an override font. If Scrivener isn't going to specify a font, why's it telling me the font's going to be one or the other. Graaah! (sound of frustration!)


I have no idea what that does. I haven't tried it and should rephrase. The default epub/mobi does not define a font. I'll have to check and see if that does or not. I'm still new to the Mac version.

There are a lot of options in the compile dialog boxes that just don't apply to ebooks, but they still stick around.

One thing on the creator defining the font as an artistic endeavor is that these fonts don't look the same on different devices because of how the technology works with the font. I love Palatino. One of my favorite fonts period. However, the PaperWhite version I find virtually unreadable. What I have found is that Caecilia, the font Amazon chose for the Kindle, was a really wise choice as it looks far better on an e-ink device than the other options.


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

See I love Palatino on my Paperwhite. I also love the Baskerville.  . I don't like caecilia on it because it looks to "thick" or bold for me. Not sure how to explain it. It didn't bother me on my K3, but they also send an update to that to thicken up the fonts. 

I just wish there wasn't such a difference in the sizing settings between the Palatino and the Baskerville. 
I have to use #5 size on Baskerville and I wish it was a tad larger. 6 is too big. On Palatino 5 is just about right although it could be a tad smaller. But next size down is then too small.


----------



## Guest (Jan 2, 2013)

Wait... how do you _not_ choose a font? In Openoffice any document text seems to have some kind of font... I would assume the same of Word?


----------



## CMTheAuthor (Dec 6, 2012)

You can use special options to "lock" your e-book to a specific font, meaning it will attempt to display with that font on all platforms/devices. (Due to software restrictions, this doesn't always work, and can end up looking rather messy.) When they say don't choose a specific font, they mean don't use those options and just go with a more generic font, to allow it to convert the text correctly depending on the platform/device.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

glutton said:


> Wait... how do you _not_ choose a font? In Openoffice any document text seems to have some kind of font... I would assume the same of Word?


It all depends on the format. Word documents always have fonts. But with something like HTML, that will use whatever font is the default unless you say otherwise. Epub and mobi formats use CSS to define how the styles look. If your editor produces the ebook format directly, just use something like Calibre to crack it open and get at the files inside.

I write in Word, and save it as filtered HTML. I make further changes to remove a bunch of crap they still throw in, and then I modify the styles so the specific font names are removed, changing to just "sans-serif" and "serif". It's also good to remove point sizes here and make the styles relatively sized; I didn't do this but it's highly recommended. If you save your OpenOffice document as HTML you can do all the same stuff. Many platforms can take the HTML file directly, or you can use Calibre to convert to epub and mobi.


----------



## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

Does anyone know which 6 fonts are available on Paperwhite?


----------



## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Sapphire said:


> Does anyone know which 6 fonts are available on Paperwhite?


Baskerville, Caecilia, Caecilia Condensed, Futura, Helvetica, Palatino.


----------



## AlexLaybourne (Jan 2, 2013)

Recently I have found myself using Palatino Linotype, but out of the two aforementioned fonts, I think Garamond has the nicer look, but find things run smoother in terms of file conversions at the e-reader compatibility when you use Times New Roman.


----------



## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

I cannot imagine why I would want to force anyone to use a font of my choosing. I would much prefer that they use a font that makes them happy. After all, that is one of the advantages of an ereader, is it not? I have been compiling with Scrivener for some time now, and have never even considered it. No complaints thus far. Really, I think we as authors have enough to pick at without worrying about ereader fonts.


----------



## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

AlexLaybourne said:


> Recently I have found myself using Palatino Linotype, but out of the two aforementioned fonts, I think Garamond has the nicer look, but find things run smoother in terms of file conversions at the e-reader compatibility when you use Times New Roman.


And in terms of the devices and trying to push a particular font, note that "Palatino Linotype" is a different font than "Palatino".


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FWIW, the way Amazon explains to readers that it is _supposed_ to work, is that there are a choice of fonts. BUT, the publisher can also specify a 'publisher' font that will then be available as an option. The built in font choices are supposed to still be available.

And I get this: I can recall paper books where they typeface chosen, while not obviously indicative of anything particular, and completely readable, was just enough 'non-standard' to add something to the feel of the story. To that extent I understand people who prefer paper over electronic.

But what I see most often is, if the publisher has specified a font, it's usually somehow locked in and can't be changed. I'm reasonably sure it's because there was some setting that was ticked improperly. Amazon should probably change something since it seems to happen this way more often than not. But it's not clear how aware they are of the problem -- readers who aren't happy need to provide feedback.

But I also think publishers should pay more attention to the new format options and learn how to use the system correctly.

So, at this point, if I open a book that's unreadable due to font size or style, I will likely return it for refund. At the least, I'd rate it down a star.


----------



## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

Lummox JR said:


> I write in Word, and save it as filtered HTML. I make further changes to remove a bunch of crap they still throw in, and then I modify the styles so the specific font names are removed, changing to just "sans-serif" and "serif". It's also good to remove point sizes here and make the styles relatively sized; I didn't do this but it's highly recommended. If you save your OpenOffice document as HTML you can do all the same stuff. Many platforms can take the HTML file directly, or you can use Calibre to convert to epub and mobi.


This is essentially what I do. Word -> Filtered HTML -> tweak HTML in Dreamweaver -> convert to ePub and mobi in Calibre.

At first, I didn't mess with the font or sizes in the HTML at all, and everything was fine on kindle (this was pre-paperwhite). The HTML did specify Times New Roman (TNR), but the kindle just used the kindle font, and people could change it. But I discovered that the ePub on a Nook Color was stuck on TNR and the reader couldn't change it. So I started stripping out the font lines in the CSS. I don't do anything with the sizes - they are specified in points (pt) but Calibre converts them to something that doesn't cause problems.

Remember to test your book on every possible device you can afford - at the very least, I'd recommend owning the latest e-ink reader from your best sales channel (most likely Amazon, but maybe B&N), and you can try the apps for PC/Mac, your smartphone, get friends to test on other devices (kindle app on iPad, app for android, try a high-resolution tablet or ereader, make sure you test on a lower resolution ereader if you're testing on a PW), bring an SD card with your book to B&N and slip it in their ereaders for testing, etc. I recently bought a used nook simple touch because one of our authors said the line spacing was messed up on her nook. I was thinking, "That's not possible - the HTML looks fine. It's fine on kindle, and on my nook color..." but I went to B&N and saw she was right. AND one of our Oz books had the same problem (BTW, readers couldn't change line spacing _except _on lines that had at least one word in italics (crazy but true) and I had to pick a "default" output profile in Calibre instead of the nook output profile).



Cynthia Shepp said:


> I am an editor. (www.cynthiashepp.com) I would highly recommend that you use Times New Roman. It makes it so much easier on the editor and on the reader. If I am given a manuscript that is in any other font, I will change it to make the editing process simpler. The author is more than welcome to change it back but it makes it easier on me.


There are huge differences in what is preferable on a printed manuscript or book vs. an ebook. I think most people here are talking about ebooks.


----------



## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

I've done some training for various publishers, teaching the typesetters about ebook conversion. Many are utterly locked into thinking the ebook must be a duplicate of the print version.They are used to having complete control over typeface, layout, page size and so on.  If you wanted to revolutionise that world, best thing to do would be to give typesetters and their managers ebook readers. 
You really have to experience ebooks to understand that what seems like limitations are actually not important.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Masha du Toit said:


> You really have to experience ebooks to understand that what seems like limitations are actually not important.


And not only are they not important -- at least from a reader's perspective -- in some cases they'd be perceived as a disadvantage for the reader which means you might loses sales!


----------



## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> And not only are they not important -- at least from a reader's perspective -- in some cases they'd be perceived as a disadvantage for the reader which means you might loses sales!


Exactly, Ann. But it's hard to convince people of that. I always take my own device to class to show them. "So you like pdf? This is what it looks like on my kindel"
Usually that's all that is needed. 

I've also showed them forum threads of people getting steamed because they cannot choose a font. Educational.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Masha du Toit said:


> I've also showed them forum threads of people getting steamed because they cannot choose a font. Educational.


Out of curiosity, do you often see these threads on reader-centric forums, or primarily on the ones populated by writers and publishers? I'm starting to suspect that a lot of the things we think readers get upset about (and here I mainly mean storytelling and literary techniques, but I can see formatting falling in the same category) are things that really only writers, editors, and publishers get upset about (because we spend all day thinking about them).

I'm not trying to argue against user choice. Now that I understand how my font selection works on latest-generation Kindles (and how it's supposed to work), I'm committed to figuring out how to make sure it works the way it's supposed to.

On the other hand, as I said before, I've sold 200,000 copies of my book with fixed font face and never had a single customer complaint. The only places I've ever heard it griped about are here at Kindle boards and in the comment threads at Passive Voice--both places where authors and publishers hang around to talk about what they think readers want.


----------



## Courtney Milan (Feb 27, 2011)

One of the reasons I haven't seen here yet is this:

Some people change a font face not because they don't like it, but because they have a disability that makes some font faces very difficult to read. Some people with dyslexia find serif fonts very difficult to read because all those little swatches are much more easily confused. Some people with visual impairments find sans serif fonts difficult to read because a bunch of letters are more likely to look alike.

End result? Don't make the choice for your reader. Some of them might literally not be able to read your book if you force the choice on them.

The only reason to pick a font for your ebook is because you think your choice is more important than your reader's choice.

It isn't.

And for all those who say, "Well, nobody's complained"--most of the people who have issues with this don't complain, because they're used to people not thinking about them. They just buy someone else's books.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

A couple of us who are not writers but are more or less voracious readers have provided feedback in this thread.

Among the things that many many eReader owners really REALLY like is the ability to adjust the font to suit their reading speed or the needs of their eyes. ANY book that removes the ability to use those features of their eReader is not going to be looked on favorably by those owners.

Sure some may just grin and bear it.

But there will be others who, if they can't figure out how to fix it, will just give up on the book.

Will they bother to ask for a refund? Maybe. Maybe not. So maybe you still got the sale. But you've definitely lost a reader because they're not likely to pick up any other book of yours. OR will learn to be more careful and check things out more carefully before hitting the buy button -- if they see the sample is wonky, they won't click 'buy'.

And a certain percentage WILL either return it for a refund or mark down the rating in a review because it was non-user-customizable.

An example: if you look at _The Casual Vacancy_ you'll see that a LOT of the early poor reviews said they hated that the default font was unnaturally small. Yes, it could be changed, but for a person who regularly used one of the larger sizes, there's only so much larger they could make it. Now that was a big splashy book with a lot of hype -- I've no doubt Amazon heard from a LOT of kindle users about it and got it fixed.

At least if you get feedback you have the opportunity to fix it. . . .there are probably a lot of people who pretty much remain silent so you never know you've p*ssed someone off. Does that matter? Maybe not, if it's a one off -- but you never know how many people they're telling their story to off line, as it were. I agree with Cathy: if you're going to publish for eReaders it would be smart of you to have access to many different ones to test things out before pushing the button.

And, heck, you've got a captive audience here -- there are many of us with multiple flavors of kindle as well as apps and other devices. Just ASK! (Nicely of course.) I've helped Krista with a book of hers that was doing wonky things on the Fire -- she was able to get it fixed. In that, you indie publishers who are members here have an advantage over the big guys!  They'll probably never know until, as with Rowling's book, it's published and the public complains.


----------



## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

Aaron Pogue said:


> Out of curiosity, do you often see these threads on reader-centric forums, or primarily on the ones populated by writers and publishers? ...I've sold 200,000 copies of my book with fixed font face and never had a single customer complaint. The only places I've ever heard it griped about are here at Kindle boards and in the comment threads at Passive Voice--both places where authors and publishers hang around to talk about what they think readers want.


Here's one: http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/NOOK-First-Edition-Technical/Font-Won-t-Change/m-p/629293/highlight/true#M21391

If you read any product discussion board when a new ereader comes out, all the just-plain-readers-not-writers are hooting and hollering and excited about any new font choices that come along. Why? Because people want choices. That was a big complaint of the kindle, compared to the nook, for quite a while when at first kindle only had one fixed font, then there were 2 or 3 (a sanserif was added), and now there are a handful.

I would likely not buy a book if the sample didn't let me choose a font, if the font was much different than what I usually used. *This is especially true of an indy author I haven't heard of.* Why? Because to me (as a reader, but also as a publisher), forcing a font means the publisher either 1) doesn't 100% know what they are doing and/or didn't bother testing their book on all devices (i.e. they didn't _intend _to force the font), or 2) is a bit full of themselves and feels their choice of font is the absolute best choice for everyone no matter what.

And... Not that _I_ would necessarily do it, but if _someone _REALLY wanted to read an ebook where they couldn't change the font, they might choose to break the DRM and reconvert the book in Calibre, which will "unfix" the fixed font. Just saying... Just because no one has complained to you doesn't mean that they wouldn't prefer it a different way, or that they haven't found a way around it.

*I'm referring to ebooks. Of course authors/publishers must chose a font in a paper book, and what they chose will be based on their preferences, the genre, age group, etc.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for the link. That was eye-opening. And thanks for your feedback as well, Ann. I'll definitely drop "font face" from my imaginary list of things authors think readers care about but maybe not many readers care about.


----------



## AnneEton (Nov 30, 2012)

I learned stuff too!


----------



## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

I still say if the font choice is critical to your work, then your work is too weak to publish.


----------



## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Rykymus said:


> I still say if the font choice is critical to your work, then your work is too weak to publish.


Well...that's a philosophical position. You're (apparently) taking the stance that a story is nothing but words. That's a good enough description for most stories, but artists have a habit of pressing boundaries and mixing media.

One of my authors (who is also a painter and mixed-media artist) has a series that features a mainline story in one format and interstitial scenes (usually between chapters) that represent a demon and demon-hunter participating in an arcane conversation. Those scenes are formatted differently from the mainline story (among other things, they use a sans-serif font where the rest of the manuscript is serif). The formatting conveys useful information in a way that's much more compelling and efficient than any narrative explanation/transition could possibly be.

Now...none of my novels work that way. I'm not a visual artist. My stories are nothing but words (with some occasional strategic use of italics), but that doesn't mean every story should be limited by my way of doing things.

For a much more powerful example of what I'm discussing, consider House of Leaves. The formatting in that manuscript is insane--and if it weren't, then the story would be a very different one.


----------



## shalym (Sep 1, 2010)

Aaron Pogue said:


> For a much more powerful example of what I'm discussing, consider House of Leaves. The formatting in that manuscript is insane--and if it weren't, then the story would be a very different one.


Notice that book isn't available in Kindle format...

Shari


----------



## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Courtney Milan said:


> One of the reasons I haven't seen here yet is this:
> 
> Some people change a font face not because they don't like it, but because they have a disability that makes some font faces very difficult to read. Some people with dyslexia find serif fonts very difficult to read because all those little swatches are much more easily confused. Some people with visual impairments find sans serif fonts difficult to read because a bunch of letters are more likely to look alike.
> 
> ...


So...don't take this the wrong way or anything...although this is exactly as creepy as it sounds, and I'm sure you get creepy people creepin' on you on the internet all the time...but...

_Every time you post on here, I want to hug your face._

I'm just putting that out there.



Aaron Pogue said:


> Well...that's a philosophical position. You're (apparently) taking the stance that a story is nothing but words. That's a good enough description for most stories, but artists have a habit of pressing boundaries and mixing media.
> 
> One of my authors (who is also a painter and mixed-media artist) has a series that features a mainline story in one format and interstitial scenes (usually between chapters) that represent a demon and demon-hunter participating in an arcane conversation. Those scenes are formatted differently from the mainline story (among other things, they use a sans-serif font where the rest of the manuscript is serif). The formatting conveys useful information in a way that's much more compelling and efficient than any narrative explanation/transition could possibly be.
> 
> ...


I see what you're getting at, but you're thinking of ebooks too much like a print medium. There are unique, exciting ways to get artistic with ebooks within the constraints of the format--which includes flexibility and accessibility for the reader--but this is not one of them. The revolutionary artists of the digital era are going to have to take things to a different level.


----------



## Lummox JR (Jul 1, 2012)

smreine said:


> I see what you're getting at, but you're thinking of ebooks too much like a print medium. There are unique, exciting ways to get artistic with ebooks within the constraints of the format--which includes flexibility and accessibility for the reader--but this is not one of them. The revolutionary artists of the digital era are going to have to take things to a different level.


Exactly! Some of the authors here are suggesting not to pick a font at all; others are suggesting their own choices. The first group is right.

Many ereaders don't allow your font selection to work even if it's embedded, not all formats allow embedding, and every ereader is tailored to the needs of that device. Readers expect consistency in the ebooks they buy, so choosing a font face for them when most other books don't won't make your book stand out better; it'll look like you don't know how to format your ebook properly, which strictly speaking will be true. (And I may share some guilt here; I chose a point size for my book, and hope it doesn't come back to bite me in the butt. If I'm wrong I'll have to update the styles.) I just go with generic serif and sans-serif and let the ereader figure it out; my Kindle Fire doesn't even show the sans-serif for me.

Font selection matters in print. It matters a great deal there. In an ebook, selecting a specific font rather than no font is just a bad idea, because the ereader's own settings are going to be what the owner expects, and deviating from that could be throwing aside careful decisions they (and the manufacturers) made about readability.


----------

