# Earth May Soon have a Second Sun



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

http://io9.com/5738542/earth-may-soon-have-a-second-sun

I love a good multi-week, global party. I need to go stock up on some beer.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

How cool. Knowing my luck, I'll be cold in the ground long before it happens. Darn pesky Human mortality.


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## lonestar (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow.  Thanks for the post.  Very interesting.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

Very cool. I love how they figured out that ancient civilizations witnessed something similar.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> I love a good multi-week, global party. I need to go stock up on some beer.


Maybe some good red wine that ages slowly would be better?


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## Syria Says... AKA Celia Can Read (Apr 16, 2010)

Noted... Sunscreen anyone?


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## LCEvans (Mar 29, 2009)

Fascinating.


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## matt youngmark (Jan 11, 2011)

I was delighted to read this, and my enthusiasm was only dampened slightly when I discovered that "any day now" means some time in the next million years in cosmic terms.


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## John H. Carroll (Nov 26, 2010)

Two suns?  A supernova?  . . . It's getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes . . . .


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

kookoo88 said:


> Two suns? A supernova? . . . It's getting hot in here, so take off all your clothes . . . .


What make you think I have any on right now? 

Sorry, didn't mean to gross you out.


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## john_a_karr (Jun 21, 2010)

This would be incredible to witness, but my timing isn't all that good, particularly with stellar events. 

Neutrinos passing through us with no harm ... seems weird but ok.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

john_a_karr said:


> This would be incredible to witness, but my timing isn't all that good, particularly with stellar events.
> 
> Neutrinos passing through us with no harm ... seems weird but ok.


Neutrinos from the Sun (and a few from the rest of the universe) are passing through you constantly. They are almost as ephemeral as the mysterious "dark matter" that is postulated to constitute the large majority of matter in the universe.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Neutrinos, schmeutrinos. What I'm wondering about is the several weeks of all-daylight. I know it happens way up north in the summers, but is the _rest _of the world able to deal with that? How would that affect plant and animal life?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Neutrinos, schmeutrinos. What I'm wondering about is the several weeks of all-daylight. I know it happens way up north in the summers, but is the _rest _of the world able to deal with that? How would that affect plant and animal life?


Well, the kids will never have to come in after supper . . . 'cause the rule is "come home when the street lights go on". . . . .


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

So, in other words, total anarchy?


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

john_a_karr said:


> This would be incredible to witness, but my timing isn't all that good, particularly with stellar events.


Well, if you can make it alive and breathing to August 21, 2017, you at least have a good chance of witnessing a total solar eclipse (no sun!):










I know I'm going to be on the path of totality that day, unless a bus or a bum ticker gets me first!


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## john_a_karr (Jun 21, 2010)

Heyyy, that blue band looks like it passes straight through glamorous Raleighwood, NC. I'll have to break out my finest brews for the red carpet event. 

... provided my mortal guise is still intact.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Neutrinos, schmeutrinos. What I'm wondering about is the several weeks of all-daylight. I know it happens way up north in the summers, but is the _rest _of the world able to deal with that? How would that affect plant and animal life?


Well, actually, the article says the brightness of the nova here on Earth would be roughly halfway between Venus and a full Moon, so we're not talking about anything even close to full daylight. Also, depending on the time of year when it happens, it might only be visible mostly during daylight hours, and thus would have no impact at all on our nights. (Depending on where it is in the ecliptic, it might even be hidden by the Sun.) But, should it occur at a time when it would be in the night sky and as the Moon is approaching full, on a clear night you might _almost_ be able to read your Kindle without a light.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

NogDog is trying to confuse us with facts when I'm deciding which dancing shoes to where to the party.


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

Wasn't this the plot for the book _2010_?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

J Dean said:


> Wasn't this the plot for the book _2010_?


If you're referring to the sequel to "2001 a Space Odyssey", not exactly. In that one


Spoiler



Jupiter was turned into a star in order to help life evolve on one of its moons, which did add a miniature sun to our sky


.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

I like the theory about Jupiter and the Jupiter Brown Star theory actually helped me


Spoiler



pick up a really great date once.


So now I have to go out and buy another parasol, another bottle of sunscreen and a second pair of sunshades. Cool.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Well, actually, the article says the brightness of the nova here on Earth would be roughly halfway between Venus and a full Moon, so we're not talking about anything even close to full daylight. Also, depending on the time of year when it happens, it might only be visible mostly during daylight hours, and thus would have no impact at all on our nights. (Depending on where it is in the ecliptic, it might even be hidden by the Sun.) But, should it occur at a time when it would be in the night sky and as the Moon is approaching full, on a clear night you might _almost_ be able to read your Kindle without a light.


It also says "For a few weeks, the supernova will be so bright that there will appear to be two stars in the sky, and night be will indistinguishable from day for much of that time."

Sounds like a few weeks of daylight to me...


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> It also says "For a few weeks, the supernova will be so bright that there will appear to be two stars in the sky, and night be will indistinguishable from day for much of that time."
> 
> Sounds like a few weeks of daylight to me...


Oops...my bad. The part where the article was talking about a -7.5 magnitude was the estimate for another nova that was seen in the 11th century. 

If it should truly be even close to the brightness of the Sun for a couple weeks, imagine what that would do to the weather here even if the radiation is not an issue.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> It also says "For a few weeks, the supernova will be so bright that there will appear to be two stars in the sky, and night be will indistinguishable from day for much of that time."
> 
> Sounds like a few weeks of daylight to me...


The quote Nogdog mentioned says the 1006 supernova was the brightest star ever. If the claims in the opening of the article are true, Betelguese will make the brightestbstar ever in history! I hope it blew up 639 years ago so we can see it soon! Though any (unlikely) residents of Betelguese may think me selfish for saying that!


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NogDog said:


> If it should truly be even close to the brightness of the Sun for a couple weeks, imagine what that would do to the weather here even if the radiation is not an issue.


That's partly what I meant earlier. A lot of plant and animal life will be affected by the disruption to the light/dark cycle. What happens to nocturnal animals? Will they starve? And what _would_ happen to the weather? I don't know enough about meteorology to know how much the weather is affected by the sun's light and how much by the sun's heat. Seems to me the heat would be more significant, and we wouldn't be getting a double dose of that, at least.


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

It's kinda funny that this comes up now because I was just thinking the other day how cool it would be to see a Supernova.  Only problem is, like the article states, there's no knowing when it will happen.  It could happen tomorrow, or 1,000,000 years from now.  I could just be headed to the fridge for a beer and miss it.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> That's partly what I meant earlier. A lot of plant and animal life will be affected by the disruption to the light/dark cycle. What happens to nocturnal animals? Will they starve? And what _would_ happen to the weather? I don't know enough about meteorology to know how much the weather is affected by the sun's light and how much by the sun's heat. Seems to me the heat would be more significant, and we wouldn't be getting a double dose of that, at least.


Well, the main driver of our weather is the Sun, as it's mainly do to its radiation that water evaporates and rises into clouds, and differences in heating from the equator to the poles drives the main atmospheric circulation patterns. Now imaging if _two_ suns are heating the globe: not only is the overall temperature likely to rise, but you would be injecting twice as much energy into creating those wind and moisture patterns. Figuring out the likely results would require a lot of super-computer processing time and a lot of educated guesses, I expect, as well as knowing when the event will happen so that you know the relative position of the nova to that of the Sun (i.e: will we get double-broiled on the day side if it's closely lined up with the sun or evenly basted on both sides if it's on the opposite portion of Earth's orbit?).


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Well, the main driver of our weather is the Sun, as it's mainly do to its radiation that water evaporates and rises into clouds, and differences in heating from the equator to the poles drives the main atmospheric circulation patterns. Now imaging if _two_ suns are heating the globe: not only is the overall temperature likely to rise, but you would be injecting twice as much energy into creating those wind and moisture patterns. Figuring out the likely results would require a lot of super-computer processing time and a lot of educated guesses, I expect, as well as knowing when the event will happen so that you know the relative position of the nova to that of the Sun (i.e: will we get double-broiled on the day side if it's closely lined up with the sun or evenly basted on both sides if it's on the opposite portion of Earth's orbit?).


But _would_ we have two suns heating the globe? Or would most of the nova's heat be lost? If it's just the light but not as much the heat that reaches us.... or are those pretty much inseparable in the case of a sun?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> But _would_ we have two suns heating the globe? Or would most of the nova's heat be lost? If it's just the light but not as much the heat that reaches us.... or are those pretty much inseparable in the case of a sun?


It is the light from the Sun which does the heating now (and maybe a little geothermal heat from the inside, which is largely driven by radioactive decay within the Earth -- but I digress). Different wavelengths of light may have different gradations of warming effect, but essentially any type of light will add energy to the system.

But I wouldn't worry too much about that. I suspect the cosmic ray blast that will follow up some time later will create mutations, and then the resulting zombies will eat our brains, and we won't be worrying about anything any more.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> But _would_ we have two suns heating the globe? Or would most of the nova's heat be lost? If it's just the light but not as much the heat that reaches us.... or are those pretty much inseparable in the case of a sun?


Since the supernova (probably) wouldn't be as bright as the Moon (based on what we've read) I wouldn't expect the heat that it produces to make any difference to us. Light could disrupt some natural plants and critters that are dependent on the day/night cycle, though I suspect they'd find a way to pull through. The article was pretty specific that the radiation from the supernova would be too weak and diffuse to harm life on earth, which makes intuitive sense though I haven't a clue how to run the numbers. There was talk years ago about the dinosaurs possibly being wiped out by radiation from a nearby nova, but that would have been much closer if it had happened. As I understand it, the biggest problem with the theory is that there are no remnants from a nearby nova or supernova.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NogDog said:


> It is the light from the Sun which does the heating now (and maybe a little geothermal heat from the inside, which is largely driven by radioactive decay within the Earth -- but I digress). Different wavelengths of light may have different gradations of warming effect, but essentially any type of light will add energy to the system.


Okay, so my idea that there could be bright light without a great deal of heat is probably due to the fact that it's been 34 years since my last physics class.... 



NogDog said:


> But I wouldn't worry too much about that. I suspect the cosmic ray blast that will follow up some time later will create mutations, and then the resulting zombies will eat our brains, and we won't be worrying about anything any more.


Ah, yes. There is that. Good point.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

The Hooded Claw said:


> Since the supernova (probably) wouldn't be as bright as the Moon (based on what we've read)


Well, there is some confusion -- started by me -- in that the "not as bright as the Moon" part was referencing an 11th century nova that was observed then. The article says that when Betelgeuse goes, it will be about as bright as the Sun for a couple weeks (best guess, anyway).


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

The Hooded Claw said:


> The article was pretty specific that the radiation from the supernova would be too weak and diffuse to harm life on earth, which makes intuitive sense though I haven't a clue how to run the numbers.


I think that even if this were going to happen tomorrow, _nobody_ would have a clue how to run the numbers. Or rather, they'd try, but there would simply be too many unpredictables.

I guess we should just go to Geoffrey's party instead.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

NogDog said:


> Well, there is some confusion -- started by me -- in that the "not as bright as the Moon" part was referencing an 11th century nova that was observed then. The article says that when Betelgeuse goes, it will be about as bright as the Sun for a couple weeks (best guess, anyway).


After rereading it for the third time, I think you're right, it does indicate clearly that Betelgeuse is likely to be the brightest supernova in our planet's history.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> I think that even if this were going to happen tomorrow, _nobody_ would have a clue how to run the numbers. Or rather, they'd try, but there would simply be too many unpredictables.
> 
> I guess we should just go to Geoffrey's party instead.


See you there!


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

All my cats care about is more sun to roll and stretch in and get charged up. So they can smell like baked kitty  

Priorities and all.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Here's a nice soothing article by an astronomer for Discovery News. The URL gets the point of the article across.

http://news.discovery.com/space/dont-panic-betelgeuse-wont-explode-in-2012.html

It's funny, I've never given any credibility to the "Mayans predict world ends in 2012" meme, and I hadn't even connected it to this story till reading about it in this story.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

The Hooded Claw said:


> It's funny, I've never given any credibility to the "Mayans predict world ends in 2012" meme,


Maybe because it would be essentially the same as saying the world will end next time you change your calendar from one year's to the next?


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Susan in VA said:



> Maybe because it would be essentially the same as saying the world will end next time you change your calendar from one year's to the next?


That's why I only use electronic calendars - I'm scared the paper LOL Cat ones will cause an apocaplex.


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## Cathymw (May 27, 2010)

Isn't Ford Prefect (from _Hitchhiker's Guide_) from Betelgeuse? I'm sure he'll tell all of us "Don't Panic".


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> How would that affect plant and animal life?


Everyone who looks at the "new" sun will go blind shortly afterwards. Then the alien plant spores will arise from the ground and walk, chasing those who can't see through the streets. The only survivors will those who'd been totally smashed for the weeks during the event. Or something like that.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Susan in VA said:


> Maybe because it would be essentially the same as saying the world will end next time you change your calendar from one year's to the next?


Yeah, right up there with the whole "Y2K" end-of-life-as-we-know-it threat we were all hearing about a decade or so ago...


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

Almost every week I can rely on KB to provide a current events news article for my boys' social studies classes. This is another great one for them to take into class!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

meromana said:


> Yeah, right up there with the whole "Y2K" end-of-life-as-we-know-it threat we were all hearing about a decade or so ago...


That's because a lot of people like me spent a lot of (very boring) time in the late 1990's testing and auditing software to make sure it didn't fail. 

Hopefully by 2038 everything important will have moved to 64-bit systems and will not be storing timestamps as 32-bit signed integers any more, so that we avoid the Y2.038K bug.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Beetlejuice...
Beetlejuice...


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

NogDog said:


> That's because a lot of people like me spent a lot of (very boring) time in the late 1990's testing and auditing software to make sure it didn't fail.
> 
> Hopefully by 2038 everything important will have moved to 64-bit systems and will not be storing timestamps as 32-bit signed integers any more, so that we avoid the Y2.038K bug.


Doubt I'll have to worry about that one.


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## john_a_karr (Jun 21, 2010)

NogDog said:


> That's because a lot of people like me spent a lot of (very boring) time in the late 1990's testing and auditing software to make sure it didn't fail.


Yeah, I was one of those too. Programming is hugely date-driven, and without Y2K Remediation, a lot more excrement would have hit the fan.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Geemont said:


> Everyone who looks at the "new" sun will go blind shortly afterwards. Then the alien plant spores will arise from the ground and walk, chasing those who can't see through the streets. The only survivors will those who'd been totally smashed for the weeks during the event. Or something like that.


Hmmm. In that case, Geoffrey's party is sounding more attractive all the time...


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Beetlejuice!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Ford Prefect was from a small planet in the vicinity of Betelgeuse. . . . .


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## Cliff Ball (Apr 10, 2010)

Betelgeuse is one of the anchor stars for the Orion constellation....


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Cliff Ball said:


> Betelgeuse is one of the anchor stars for the Orion constellation....


Not for long.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Jeff said:


> Not for long.


Not for long astronomically, though probably for long in people years (and 7 times longer than _that_ in dog years). )


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