# What kind of reader/writer are you?



## Dee Ernst (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm a bookseller at B&N, and I've noticed there are two kinds of readers. The first wants a good story and great characters. The second wants good use of language. Great writers (Austin, Fitzgerald) can do both.  Other writers (me, for instance) concentrate on trying to do one or the other. I read character and plot driven books. Although I can appreciate an author like Kazuo Ishiguro (Never Let Me Go, Remains Of The Day) who writes beautifully, I don't enjoy his books as much as Robert B. Parker or Maeve Binchy. Both those authors write well, btw, but not like Ishiguro. Yesterday a customer was raving about Edith Wharton (affix glassy smile here) so I didn't recommend The Art of Racing in the Rain.What kind of reader are you? And/or writer?


----------



## SJCress (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm hugely character driven, both in what I read and what I write. I can read any genre if I love the characters. Beautiful, poetic use of the language is a definitely a bonus (a huge one) but the first thing I look for is great characters.


----------



## Ilyria Moon (May 14, 2011)

Dee Ernst said:


> I'm a bookseller at B&N, and I've noticed there are two kinds of readers. The first wants a good story and great characters. The second wants good use of language. Great writers (Austin, Fitzgerald) can do both. Other writers (me, for instance) concentrate on trying to do one or the other. I read character and plot driven books. Although I can appreciate an author like Kazuo Ishiguro (Never Let Me Go, Remains Of The Day) who writes beautifully, I don't enjoy his books as much as Robert B. Parker or Maeve Binchy. Both those authors write well, btw, but not like Ishiguro. Yesterday a customer was raving about Edith Wharton (affix glassy smile here) so I didn't recommend The Art of Racing in the Rain.What kind of reader are you? And/or writer?


Vibrant characters and a great plot. I appreciate the beauty and intricacies of language, but I like to read and write fast-paced stories that have strong characters who I feel like I know.


----------



## lpking (Feb 12, 2011)

I like a great story which unveils the characters and their development/reactions/fallibility to the reader. Most of all, I want an emotional hit. Whether that emotion is sorrow, excitement, anger, happiness -- it doesn't matter as long as the writing provokes an intense response.


----------



## RichardBrown (May 16, 2011)

I'm also on the side of more character driven stories.  Beautiful, flowing prose is fine as long as it's moving the story forward.  More often than not, however, it seems the opposite happens and I get bored and give up.


----------



## Ilyria Moon (May 14, 2011)

RichardBrown said:


> I'm also on the side of more character driven stories. Beautiful, flowing prose is fine as long as it's moving the story forward. More often than not, however, it seems the opposite happens and I get bored and give up.


LOL me too.


----------



## L.J. Sellers novelist (Feb 28, 2010)

I like to read and write, complex stories with engaging characters. I'm also a journalist who prefers straightforward writing to poetry and obscure metaphors. I like language, but for me it's only a means to an end, not necessarily an art. I accept that others place more value on the beauty of a well-turned phrase. 
L.J.


----------



## grahampowell (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm with the crowd on this one - story uber alles.  In writing, too.  If something doesn't serve the story it gets cut.


----------



## 9Lanterns (Jun 11, 2011)

I've gotta agree with Elmore Leonard.  Unless you're Steinbeck, get rid of the hooptedoodle.  As a writer, I think I'd be offended if people like my use of language over my stories.


----------



## Tara Maya (Nov 4, 2010)

I would add a third category... idea driven fiction. I guess most sf falls into that, but also some literary. Isaac Asimov had clunky writing and clunkier characters, but marvelous ideas. 

I usually go for plot and character driven stories, but from time to time, I do love to immerse myself in beautiful language. Actually, Never Let Me Go is one of my favorite books. But most of the books I read are much less "fraught."


----------



## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I want it all. I want a good, compelling plot with some original concepts. I want characters that I care about -- not that I necessarily like them, but that I care to find out what happens to them. I want _effective_ use of language; which does not necessarily mean florid and/or verbose language, but language that is appropriate for the style and tone of the book and with effective imagery that helps immerse me in the story (a half dozen words or so in a great metaphor may be worth a few hundred words of detailed description).

This may explain why I'm a tough pick in the Quasi-Official Book Game Klub here.


----------



## sagambino (Jun 11, 2011)

I read and write horror books. I'm addicted to them.

_--- edited... no self-promotion outside the Book Bazaar forum. please read our Forum Decorum thread._


----------



## barbara elsborg (Oct 13, 2010)

I read almost anything - from Remains of the day - which I loved, to The Dome which I also liked, to seafaring stories, to light and frothy chick lit, some of which I like. I prefer stories with interesting characters and compelling plots. I'm less interested in huge detail of any sort - of landscape, houses, people's looks- beyond the hair and eyes. I like dialogue driven stories which reveal character by degees and not pages of long dry paragraphs. I tend not to read much erotic romance - yet that is mostly what I write. I do read a lot of suspense novels and write those! Not sure why there is that difference. 
My stories are character driven, dialogue heavy, light in the case of the romances and dark in the case of the suspense stories but all have a HEA  and humor!


----------



## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Depends on the genre. For historical fiction, I want great characters and writing. For mysteries or thrillers, I want a great plot.


----------



## J.L. McPherson (Mar 20, 2011)

Unfortunately, I've read several beautifully written BORING books in my day. There are not many writers that can really pull it off. I would say Dean Koontz would be one of them. He writes with a beautiful, creepy prose that I've always enjoyed, but the man is a hell of a storyteller too.


----------



## Sean Thomas Fisher (Mar 25, 2011)

I like reading a book with a main character I can relate to. Preferably one who doesn't think vampires are hot...


----------



## Harry Nicholson (May 25, 2011)

Rough or coarse writing, done for attention effect, causes me to pass over a novel. I enjoy contact with a writer who has something thoughtful or profound to say, but not in a deliberately obscure way.


----------



## Grace Elliot (Mar 14, 2011)

What a great observation! (that there are two types of readers.) 
This hadnt struck me before, but thinking about it book reviews tend to fall into two camps: those swept up with character and plot, versus those that notice editing, punctuation and spelling. 

The other question; what kind of writer are you - coupled with the above observation, makes me realise that when I'm writing free flow I use punctuation 'creatively' , like an artist using daubes of colour on the canvas. To me punctuation isnt a precise art (ducks to avoid objects being thrown at the screen) but there to help the flow and feel of the piece. As long as punctuation doesnt interfere with enjoyment, I really dont get those reviewers who stress over the odd, misplaced comma. (I'm guessing this is going to be controversial....doubles away to put on my flack jacket and hard hat.)


----------



## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Grace Elliot said:


> What a great observation! (that there are two types of readers.)
> This hadnt struck me before, but thinking about it book reviews tend to fall into two camps: those swept up with character and plot, versus those that notice editing, punctuation and spelling.
> 
> The other question; what kind of writer are you - coupled with the above observation, makes me realise that when I'm writing free flow I use punctuation 'creatively' , like an artist using daubes of colour on the canvas. To me punctuation isnt a precise art (ducks to avoid objects being thrown at the screen) but there to help the flow and feel of the piece. As long as punctuation doesnt interfere with enjoyment, I really dont get those reviewers who stress over the odd, misplaced comma. (I'm guessing this is going to be controversial....doubles away to put on my flack jacket and hard hat.)


While there are aspects of punctuation that are somewhat gray areas as far as the "rules" go, there are many that are not. When you bend/break rules, you risk jarring the reader out of the moment and making him/her notice the actual letters and punctuation on the page as opposed to the flow of words and ideas they should be enjoying. An incorrectly used comma can be just as attention-getting as a misspelled word or incorrect grammar. If you are going to break the rules in any of those (punctuation, spelling, grammar), it should be done with great care and only if that is the only way to appropriately communicate what needs communicating, but it should never be done out of ignorance.

IMHO, of course. 

And to quote one of my favorite characters, Commander Samuel Vimes (from Terry Prathcett's _Jingo_) regarding a memo written by Captain Carrot: "There may be a lot of things I'm not good at, but at least I don't treat the punctuation of a sentence like a game of Pin the Tail on the Donkey." 

PS: Even Sir Terry has been known to scatter a stray comma here or there that I disagree with, but I let him get away with it.


----------



## ashel (May 29, 2011)

RichardBrown said:


> Beautiful, flowing prose is fine as long as it's moving the story forward. More often than not, however, it seems the opposite happens and I get bored and give up.


This. My bookshelf is full of highly lauded books that I couldn't bring myself to finish. I have..._opinions_ about how creative writing is taught as a result.


----------



## India Drummond (Nov 1, 2010)

For me, the _why _ question is the most intriguing part of any plot, and to understand _why_, you have to understand the characters.

Setting, details, backstory... that sort of thing makes me sleepy. But the workings of the heart and mind, that I love.


----------



## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

history_lover said:


> Depends on the genre. For historical fiction, I want great characters and writing. For mysteries or thrillers, I want a great plot.


I am trying to decide to what degree I agree with this. I love Hammett in large degree because he was a great writer. His use of language was amazing. Michael Nava's mysteries are particularly beautifully written. And however great the writing or characters in a historical novel, if there's no plot it will fall on its face. Wolf Hall, for example, stands up as much for plot as it does for the excellence of those factors.

But I still think you have to some degree of a point in that there is more emphasis on writing in some genres than others.



9Lanterns said:


> I've gotta agree with Elmore Leonard. Unless you're Steinbeck, get rid of the hooptedoodle. As a writer, I think I'd be offended if people like my use of language over my stories.


The use of beautifully executed language is not necessarily "hooptedoodle". Hemingway disproves that right off the bat. It is in the execution, not in using fancy words.

I won't be offended WHY EVER people like my novels, I just hope that they like them.


----------



## Tamara Rose Blodgett (Apr 1, 2011)

Ultimately, I'd love to have both! But, given that it is not typical; great story/characters is what's important. Prowess with language is wonderful and shows off great vocabulary but if it is not used for furtherance of the story...it [the work] may not achieve the goal of enthralling the reader(?) That's my goal as a reader and a writer: I want a book I, "can't put down," and when I write, I wish to fashion a tale that captures the readers attention until the very end.


----------



## sagambino (Jun 11, 2011)

sagambino said:


> I read and write horror books. I'm addicted to them.


----------



## ashel (May 29, 2011)

NogDog said:


> And to quote one of my favorite characters, Commander Samuel Vimes (from Terry Prathcett's _Jingo_) regarding a memo written by Captain Carrot: "There may be a lot of things I'm not good at, but at least I don't treat the punctuation of a sentence like a game of Pin the Tail on the Donkey."


I was actually really tempted to respond to, this with just "CARROT!" or maybe quoting, one of his letters home but you beat me to it.


----------



## Cynthia Thomason (Aug 18, 2010)

I agree, Bookseller. Robert B Parker was terrific. I'm sorry he's gone. Always a fun, fast read if not a literary one. But great for escapism.


----------



## tristanlindsay (Feb 4, 2011)

At first I was going to say that I always choose substance over style when deciding on a book, but there are indeed certain authors who can keep me reading because of the way they write, not necessarily because of the content of their story. 

Dreamcatcher by Stephen King was this way for me. Because I enjoy King's style, I could keep reading to the end, even though the story being told was completely stupid. So I guess I'm happy as long as I can appreciate something about a book.

I do think though, that when you set it up as language vs plot it obscures the real dichotomy of readers which is pretentious vs. not pretentious. In which case, I am totally against the pretentious reader and/or writer.


----------



## Tim Ellis (Mar 27, 2011)

As a reader, I want to read books that are beautifully written, but tell a good story. My examples would be The Religion by Tim Willocks, Something Wicked This Way Comes, Ray Bradbury, and The Shadow of the Wind Carlos Ruiz Zafon - Tolkein's in there somewhere as well. Other books, as you said, are one or the other, such as Steig Larsson or Dan Brown. Great stories, but the writing leaves a lot to be desired.

As a writer, I'm a long way from being Tim Willocks et al., but I try to achieve both - a well written good story. I think only your readers can say whether you achieve this as a writer or not!


----------



## Guest (Jun 12, 2011)

Character and plot. I tend to believe that great writing serves the story. It doesn't matter how beautiful the turn of phrase if it obscures a point instead of illuminating it.


----------



## mesmered (Feb 2, 2011)

What a fabulous question. And before I answer, I'd love to know which are the bestselling authors in your store. You mention what you like, but I wonder what your patrons prefer.
For myself, I love a character-driven plot. I need to relate to the protagonist in any situation, to slip inside the skin, so that I can 'feel' what that character is feeling. In addition, I appreciate the art of scene setting, of world-building. 

As a writer, I hope I write character-driven stories... its what I set out to do but only the readers can judge whether I'm successful. But I have always loved beautiful prose as well and I would love to be considered an artist with language.


----------



## Dee Ernst (Jan 10, 2011)

B&N readers are all about popular fiction. Our bestsellers are very predictable. Anything Patterson writes, anything Cussler writes... it's amazing that a book like The Help  made it to the top ten and stayed there for so long. The so-called literary authors don't start selling until Oprah talks about them or they win an award. Franzen and Jennifer Egan spring to mind, and frankly, I didn't finish either of their books.


----------



## kellymcclymer (Apr 22, 2010)

*Blush* I believe I can classify myself as a reading slut. I read to understand -- people, ideas, the roots of conflicts, the reason why we aren't supposed to wear white before Labor Day...or is that after Labor Day?   I was in advanced lit classes in high school, because I never met a book I didn't pick up and read. I read Jaws (*read*, not saw the movie), The Sheep Look Up, and On The Beach the same summer I read every Harlequin romance in my local library (about 90). I read Nancy Drew at an age appropriate level, but didn't get into Trixie Belden until my mom picked some up at Goodwill for one of my younger sisters. Ditto Anne of Green Gables, which I read in high school....along with Lord of the Flies.

The one thing I don't "get" is poetry. Except for James Dickey. I used him to help me pass a college course that required reading a modern poet (I had enough of Shelley and Byron and Frost, et.al. in high school to pass as someone who could talk about poetry).

As a writer, I love to explore conflicts that befuddle me (the male-female dynamic in my historical romance; the popular-unpopular dynamic in my YA; next up I'm going to release an indie book that tackles my confusion over crime, punishment and the nature of atonement).


----------



## wonderfulray (May 5, 2011)

Characters and plot, along with the _competent_ use of language, is good for me.

If the writer can elevate (for lack of a better word) his or her language to something more interesting than a VCR instruction manual, ideally in a way that suits the story, so much the better. I like to think of the narrative voice as a character, even in a story told from the third person point of view.

As a writer, I don't like getting too fancy with language. But I do think it's good to try to "turn a phrase" here and there, in well-chosen places, to spice it up just a little, make it distinctive, and... yes, to show I can do it if I want to.

An analogy might be to think of rock drummers. It can be incredibly boring if a guy just plays one or two simple beats from page one of the drum lesson book. But some sound as if they're trying to play everything they know in every song. That's too much; it's a distraction. The really good ones, though, know how much to play at any given time. They might do something subtle (but interesting if you notice it) with the beat and leave the flashy stuff to the fills.


----------



## Alex Sinclair (May 5, 2011)

From a readers point of view I like character stories. My favourite author is Terry Pratchett. Everything he writes make me laugh. He does really amazing character stories in a weird and wonderful adventure. Oddly, I am not a big fan on fantasy, but I love his books. I like character stories that have a point. The one thing I don't like is overly descriptive writing. I remember a book called, Red Dragon, or falling dragon. It was a sci-fi book I picked up years ago. One of the best written books I have ever read. The characters were great, the story was so clever, but the author just went off on one. He would describe absolutely everything in amazing detail, but it would be a fast paced scene that builds and builds and then I am reading about the history of a wooden chair for three pages! I love descriptive writing, but not overly descriptive.

From a writers point of view I write character stories. I like asking questions with stories. How far would you go to protect your loves ones? How far would you go to keep your job? Would you put your own desires before duty? Is religion more important than love? And so on, lol.


----------



## msdanielle28 (Jun 12, 2011)

I must agree I like to be immersed in the moment by the book. I want to be drawn in, picturing this story playing in my mind. I like this in all styles of writing. I also have a passion for language, using a great tone, letting the story flow along. I believe it is not always easy combining both. Having a great balance makes for an enlightened reading experience.


----------



## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

As a writer I like a good story and characters.  I think I am probably that kind of writer, as well.


----------



## Anne Maven (Apr 18, 2011)

Plot and well developed characters first; comprehensible language is a must. Anything more is great!


----------



## Tess St John (Feb 1, 2011)

I think a good stories has to be both character and plot driven...but it has to have an emotional impact. I think that's the key...at least for me (both as a reader and a writer).


----------



## LDHesler (Mar 25, 2011)

Economy of language works best. You can pack all the details into a few short sentences. Instead of dropping a bomb of language on the reader, you hit them square in the chest with a bullet. 

Having said that, I do enjoy a little of both. And it depends on what I'm reading (or writing). If I'm reading action or adventure, I want a fast-paced story. If I'm reading horror, I like a slower pace just to build the tension and to develop anticipation.


----------



## Robin Hawke (Feb 22, 2011)

It's funny--when I teach art, I compare the language of art (form, line, etc.) to writing. _Begin by putting two words together, then three and so forth; learn words to create something that is more than the sum of its parts._ Good writing is more than straight forward. Oblique references, unexpected words, phrasing, rhythms--become art with maturity.

I write, aspire to write intelligently. Words, phrases, sentences...I'm not sure where I am in the learning cycle--if it's pretentious, then I have more to learn.


----------



## John Zunski (Jun 8, 2011)

It's all about the story followed very closely by characters. Great style is awesome, but if the story has inconsistencies or the characters are wooden, the book gets tossed aside. A good writing style without the good story and characters is like a beautiful oil painting but one or more of the subjects is upside down. It doesn't matter how well it's presented, a fart in church is still a fart in church. 

_edit -- no self-promotion outside the Book Bazaar_


----------



## crimescribe (Apr 27, 2011)

Depends on the mood for me and the writer. For the former, I like thriller writers like Leather, Grisham, Cornwell and others who can really provide a fast-paced read around a crime/legal drama. For the latter, I like to read writers like Gary Shteyngart, who's Super Sad Love Story is beautifully written and richly-conceived tale of a future we seem to be hurtling toward faster than I'd care to admit. I am also looking forward to Michael Chabon and his new novel Telegraph Avenue that is supposed to be coming out this year. When he's writing literary fiction, like Telegraph, nobody's better in my opinion as far as prose style is concerned.


----------



## AmandaHavard (Apr 25, 2011)

I definitely fall into the character driven writer/reader. While I sincerely appreciate well-written books, investing in a character is what truly grabs me.



Tess St John said:


> I think a good stories has to be both character and plot driven...but it has to have an emotional impact. I think that's the key...at least for me (both as a reader and a writer).


I agree here. Emotional impact is severe and that can be through characters and beautiful language. I recently read an ARC I received at BEA, The Unbecoming of Mara Dyer by Michelle Hodkin. It has that quality down pat... following a girl with hallucinations after an accident - one of the best characters I've read in a while. Matched by Ally Condie is another recent read that comes to mind. Dystopian books tend to have that appeal though.


----------



## Trina Lee (May 4, 2011)

I definitely need the characters and the plot to draw me in right away. Of course, I prefer that it's well written as well. But if I don't care about the characters, I won't make it through the story. I think that goes as both a reader and a writer.


----------



## Guest (Jun 15, 2011)

I think that a good book needs both, but that said, it's story and character that holds me.  I think the most outstanding example from my own bookshelf would be Spin by Robert Charles Wilson; not only did I feel an intensely personal connection with the characters, but the writing itself was absolutely beautiful.

As a writer, I think that the story aspects come more natural to me, but I'm working hard to improve both.


----------



## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I want the words to stay out of my way. When you are really into a book, the book disappears, and you are there. Poor language pulls me out of the story, but language that upstages the story can do that as well. Story is king.


----------



## ewmacenulty (Jun 10, 2011)

For myself, both as a reader and a writer, form follows function. At the heart of it all, I read (and write) to help me understand the world. I prefer characters engaged in moral conundrums/tensions that push them to face the world and their difficulties in confronting themselves/the world. My favorite writer is the New Zealand writer Alan Duff. Although I have no cultural basis to understand the passions and tensions that exist in the Maori world, his honest, struggling characters and his raw and bloody writing style (almost stream of consciousness) helps me understand the moral and mortal struggles that exist deep within me. Shakespeare was a master of this but, his only flaw (if it really could even be described as one) is that his amazing and identifiable characters and his stream-lined plots (he was, after all, telling a story for the stage) sometimes gets lost behind his dense language (as wonderful as it is). These two writers, Duff and Shakespeare, help me to understand the great moral and mortal difficulties that lie at the heart of all of us. Both are very different in delivery (raw, stream of conscious versus poetic iambic pentameter) but their forms deliver the message: to live is joy and sorrow. I write like them ... not to emulate them ... but to take their directives and make them my own.


----------



## Ryne Billings (May 15, 2011)

I really like character and plot driven books. You can write a hundred pages on the dancing flames of a candle, but I'm not going to find it interesting, regardless of how elegantly written it is.

That said, I do like a mixture of both, but the characters and the actual story are what matters most to me.


----------



## MichelleStimpson (May 29, 2011)

9Lanterns said:


> I've gotta agree with Elmore Leonard. Unless you're Steinbeck, get rid of the hooptedoodle. As a writer, I think I'd be offended if people like my use of language over my stories.


Same here! I like hearing the language, but sometimes it's overkill with all the descriptive language and such.


----------



## Colin Taber (Apr 4, 2011)

I'd put it this way:

If a book doesn't have good characters and an interesting plot, *I won't finish it.*

If a book isn't well written, I might finish it, but *I won't want to re-read it*.

An interesting story built about a good plot and characterisations will drag me along, even if the writing is only ''fair''. A well written book with the former will see me want to read it again and also recommend it.


----------



## Harry Shannon (Jul 30, 2010)

I will read almost anything, but tend to favor crime fiction and thrillers. I write noir, thrillers and some horror. As a reader, characterization is often more important than structure, for if I can't believe the people could really exist then even the best plot doesn't quite work. Also believe a sense of the absurd helps, with a light touch if the spiritual just for seasoning. Those tastes also show up in my novels. Some of my favorites as a fan? Cormac McCarthy, Joe R. Lansdale, James Lee Burke, John Connelly, Mo Hayder, Robert Crais, Michael Connolly, Irish author Stuart Neville and my latest bug is for a gifted author from South Africa named Roger Smith (Wake Up Dead, Dust Devils).


----------



## MartinLake (May 9, 2011)

I always prefer stories driven by plot and character rather than by language.  Fielding rather than Austen, Dickens rather than James.

But the golden egg is to combine both.  If only...


----------



## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

It's all about story for me.

Great characters are fine and dandy, but if they are not moving the story foreword, they will begin to annoy me. Same goes for language. I love a writer who is in love with the possibilities of the language, who makes the words sing. However, if it's not moving the story forward it's like walking through treacle.

That goes for my reading and my writing.


----------



## MartinStanley72 (May 17, 2011)

As a writer I favour story and character over beautiful prose, though I will insert the occasional 'pretty' line into my story when the moment calls for it. As a reader I would say that I favour plot, character and pacing more than the language. However, my reading is pretty eclectic so one day I will read a Georges Simenon or a Richard Stark and the next I might be found reading a Toni Morrison or a Thomas Pynchon. Most days I'm after plain old storytelling but occasionally I just have to read something where I can luxuriate in the language

Martin
http://thegamblersnovel.com


----------



## joanhallhovey (Nov 7, 2010)

My tastes in literature are ecclectic.  I recently reread 'The Red Bad of Courage' by Stephen Crane, and loved it even more than the first time. A brilliant writer. You get inside Henry's skin and live through him during a battle of the civil war.  I'm a big fan of Stephen King, Ruth Rendell, and I just finished a biography of Susan Boyle, whose voice never fails to thrill me.  How's that for different?  
I write suspense novels with a thread of - not romance exactly, but a man, woman relationship, running through.  I like to delve into the dark side of the human psyche.  And I'm always aware that my first job is as an entertainer.  I want to give my readers a roller coaster ride that keeps them on the edge of their collective seats, that also make them think about the story long after the book is closed.  That is my intention anyway. And my hope.


----------



## RobynB (Jan 4, 2011)

RichardBrown said:


> I'm also on the side of more character driven stories. Beautiful, flowing prose is fine as long as it's moving the story forward. More often than not, however, it seems the opposite happens and I get bored and give up.


This.

For me, it's all about a story that sucks me in to the point I can't put it down. However the author gets me to that point -- through character, gorgeous prose, rip-roaring pace -- doesn't matter as long as I'm there.


----------



## Douglas Dorow (Jun 21, 2011)

I read for the story and good characters and prefer third person over first person point of view.  The language is what may differentiate some of the writers, but sometimes slows things down.


----------



## buyonamazon (Jun 19, 2011)

Mainly characters. After all, that's what separates textbooks from good books


----------



## Julia444 (Feb 24, 2011)

I guess I feel that good writing is good writing, whether it's fancy and literary or simple and character-driven.  We know it when we see it.  I noticed recently, when I was reading a book by Ian McEwan, that an author like him is more WORK for me to read than someone like, say, Sue Grafton, but I admire them both tremendously.  

There's a reward at the end either way, but I just have to make more time for the books with sophisticated style and elevated diction.

Therefore, I probably read ten "simpler" books for every one challenging book, just as I have more cheeseburgers than I do steak (I think I'm paraphrasing Stephen King with that analogy).

But I love to read, and great literature has its place in my library right alongside the fun reads that I can breeze through in two hours.

Right now I'm reading CATCHER IN THE RYE, which is an example of both categories coming together.  Simple, fun, but also great.

Great question!

Julia


----------



## journeymama (May 30, 2011)

I love writing that makes me recognize what is on the page in a new way. Metaphors that give new life to characters, and story lines, and people. I love writing that makes characters accessible, not distant. And I love writing that is hopeful, no matter how difficult or painful the story is.


----------



## Anne Maven (Apr 18, 2011)

I enjoy stories that end on a hopeful note. I do not like doom and gloom scenarios. Good writing with well formed characters, clear dialogue, and a dynamic plot make for a worthwhile read. Enjoy descriptive prose as well, as long as there is a point to it and it adds to the mood and feel of the situation.


----------



## Dr. Laurence Brown (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm big on characters a plot. Flowery words are nice but at the end of the day it's the characterization and story that's pulling me deeper into the story.


----------



## Jeff Rivera (Jun 22, 2011)

I'll read pretty much anything, but I prefer character development and story. If I stumble through sentence after sentence then to me there's too much focus on the words but not the actual story flow.


----------



## Ann Herrick (Sep 24, 2010)

I like character-driven stories, and while I certainly like good writing, I don' want it "jumping out" at me. I'm not like Oprah in that I don't want to read a book and be saying, "Oh, wow, what a great sentence!" I want to be drawn into the story, not noticing how it's written. (_Bad_ writing I would notice, and that would spoil an otherwise good story for me.)


----------



## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

For me, it is about writing, humor, honesty, revelation--the revelation that ends in illumination and self-knowledge for the reader. Much depends on the author. I read a book like Pynchon's V, which I have been carrying around with me for ages, though I have lost track of the story, because the pages are a surprise, there's a surprise or something to laugh at in every paragraph.
richard


----------



## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Oh, I forgot to add my answer to the part of the question "what kind of writer are you?"

As a writer, I am far less capable and multifaceted than the authors I read, but I would say in a few books, like "The Killing of an Author", or "Impressing the Whites", or "What We All Need"--it is about Franz Kafka's definition of what a book should be, "an axe for the frozen sea within us."

While in others, I am simply being humorous, subversive, anti-establishment, self-subversive, without being heavily so.


----------



## Robert Clear (Apr 10, 2011)

For me to rate a book highly there would have to be a balance between good story/characters and engaging language. But if I had to pick a side... I think story/characters would win.


----------



## Virhenley (Apr 9, 2011)

I devour history and write character-driven historical romance.  I love doing research far more than I enjoy writing the books!


----------



## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

RobynB said:


> This.
> 
> For me, it's all about a story that sucks me in to the point I can't put it down. However the author gets me to that point -- through character, gorgeous prose, rip-roaring pace -- doesn't matter as long as I'm there.


This is me to a tea. As a publisher, an editor, and a reader, I have to get sucked into a story and emotionally invested in the outcome.

As a writer, I center more on character driven plots and have to have killer pacing. If I get bored writing a section, I know I've missed the mark and have to re-write.

I also love the emotional attachment that comes with writing/reading a series, my favorite characters aside from my own creation are Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan and Jonathan Mayberry's Joe Ledger.


----------



## nickpeirson (Mar 26, 2011)

Tara Maya said:


> I would add a third category... idea driven fiction. I guess most sf falls into that, but also some literary. Isaac Asimov had clunky writing and clunkier characters, but marvelous ideas.


I have to agree with this, I love something that makes me think as I'm reading it, and afterwards. I think this is one of the reasons I read a lot of hard SF.


----------



## Ray Rhamey author (Jan 6, 2011)

As a reader, writer, and editor, give me strong, interesting characters and a story that MOVES.

_[edited. No self promotion outside the Book Bazaar, thanks. --Geoffrey]_


----------



## Alex Owens (Mar 24, 2011)

LIke the music I listen to, or the food that I eat, book choices ultimately come down to what I'm in the mood for. 

If I'm looking to escape for a little while, or not think to much, I pick something fast paced, like a mystery /thriller/horror. For those the characters are still important, but the plot must move forward. I can tolerate a pretty sentence here and there, but it better not slow me down. Huge sections of purple prose there will cause me to (gasp!) skip to the action. 

However, there are times when I want to think, to be sucked into a story by writing that evocative, original and descriptive. For those, the plot is less important than the "voice" driving the novel. 

As for writing, it's the same thing. I suppose that's why I tend to write in numerous genres


----------



## robertscotttruecrime (Jun 28, 2011)

After sixteen true-crime books, all nonfiction of course, I've tried my hand at a mystery set in 19th Century Yosemite.  Titled DEATH IN THE VALLEY - it's on Kindle.  I enjoyed combining historical characters along with characters of my own invention.  It is plot driven, but I tried to give each individual in the story their own distinctive personality as well.  

One thing about true crime, the book is only as good as the research and what you can uncover.  I'd say 70% of making a good true-crime book is the research as compared to the writing.  It does need a competent flow to it - but the unearthing of facts is paramount.  For my book on the Jaycee Lee Dugard case, SHATTERED INNOCENCE, it was very hard to discover something new about the perpetrators, Phil and Nancy Garrido, because of a virtual blackout of police and court documents.  I succeeded to a certain degree by digging very deeply into court files and talking with certain individuals.  

Robert Scott


----------



## Ann Herrick (Sep 24, 2010)

I also forgot to add what kind of writer I am. My books are more character-driven, though I certainly work on plot and often that is the first spark of an idea for one of my books. Though many of my YAs are humorous romances, _The Farewell Season_, while having a romance (starts off butting heads, goes to friendship, romance blooming by the end), and humor, is more serious, as it deals with a teen trying to bury his grief rather than dealing with it.


----------



## B Regan Asher (Jun 14, 2011)

I agree with what seems to be the majority opinion here.  It's all about the characters and the story.  The language is a means to the end, not an end unto itself.  Personally, I need to feel the struggle of the characters and to understand their joy or pain.  

The language/style must work to enhance the story and so, depending on the setting, beautiful language is not necessarily the best choice.


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Plot and details here. I sometimes skip over character details and start thinking...just get on with the story already!!!! Like Janet Evanovich...her characters just annoy me so much that I dont get thru the books....too much of their lives and not enough plot.

OTOH, I do enjoy a good writer. I found Stephen King to be a good writer that pulled me in...and I dont even like horror. Someone smooth, non-pretentious, clear. Victor Hugo is another, simple a beautiful storyteller.

I tend to be all business when reading. I am too impatient to spend time figuring out symbology or subtlety unless it hits me on the head. (And yet I appreciate it when I do perceive it). Give me the guts, the story, the meat!


----------



## Adam Kisiel (Jun 20, 2011)

I am definitely a first one, of course language is important too.


----------



## Nick Wastnage (Jun 16, 2011)

For me it's three dimensional characters, a clever and non-linear plot, gritty dialogue and empathic descriptions.


----------



## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm more about story and characters.  I appreciate good writing, so the best of both worlds is ideal.

But I can still enjoy a book that has a great story and characters even if the writing is pretty standard, while a very well-written book would be boring as hell if the plot and characters aren't compelling.  So writing is secondary for me. As long as it's at least good, I can enjoy the book if the plot sucks me in.

Writing is different for me as I'm not a creative writer.  I'm a professor/researcher, so all I'm writing and publishing are research articles and book chapters etc.  So not plot or characters there.  Only goal is to make the articles as non-boring as possible and I try to write them relatively conversationally to hopefully make them a fairly easy read for graduate students etc.


----------



## Scott Daniel (Feb 1, 2011)

As far as being a reader, I read everything I can get my hands on. News, non-fiction, fiction, magazines, cereal boxes, twitter feed. If there was a way I could hook up a digital iv drip into to my veins, I probably would.

In terms of writing, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I use to know. I was a news reporter. I wrote newspaper articles. That's what I wrote. I no longer work in that business, but have jumped into the fiction world.

My main themes seem to be love and faith, although I get other ideas. So much to do, so little time.


----------



## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

My characters drive my series and without their interactions, I'd have a hard time getting to the end of a book.  Because my characters are strong and unique, the storyline weaves together with surprising twists and turns that resolve rather nicely.

As a reader, I fell in love with Koontz's early books and his formula worked well.  Great characters with great plots.


----------



## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm more of a plot/character writer. In fact, if a reader contacted me and talked about how much they loved my literariness (is that a word?), I would probably be concerned about them. Ha!

As a reader, I'm all over the board. I love everything I can get my hands on. Okay, maybe I don't love _everything_, but I enjoy to some extent or other reading all I can get.


----------



## MarionSipe (May 13, 2011)

As a reader, I'm more about the characters, then about the plot, and then about the writing.  If I can get all of those in one book, so much the better, but I'll put up with a lot for great characters, and only a little less for a great plot!  Great writing, as awesome as it is, will bore me without the other two because I don't care about the story being told.


----------



## trevorscott (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm a virgin to this board, so be gentle


----------



## silenceiseverything (Oct 8, 2010)

I agree with the poster that said that the beautiful writing must enhance the story.  If a book uses beautiful language, yet takes a long time to tell me something concrete about a character, I won't finish it.  Yet if a book has an interesting premise, but is terribly written, I might finish it, but I'll be grumbling about it the whole way through.


----------



## tkmurphy (Apr 21, 2011)

I think the plot, story and characters are more important than the language. I really like to read books, where I can "feel" the characters. Books that can make it seem like it is real. Language is great, but without something to pull me in, I start to daydream!


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

silenceiseverything said:


> I agree with the poster that said that the beautiful writing must enhance the story. If a book uses beautiful language, yet takes a long time to tell me something concrete about a character, I won't finish it. Yet if a book has an interesting premise, but is terribly written, I might finish it, but I'll be grumbling about it the whole way through.


I have to say that there are exceptions to this for me...I loved 'Love in the Time of Cholera,' by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I didnt particularly relate to any of the main characters and wanted to shake the 2 main characters frequently. But what a beautifully written, fascinating book. Same for Victor Hugo...amazingly intriguing writer (altho not in the same way as Marquez)


----------



## Michael Parker (Jun 15, 2011)

I tend to let the characters dictate the direction in which they want to go. I often let the story unfold as I write, not always knowing where I will end up. I have often been told that my stories are like films, in that they unravel in the reader's mind and conjure up vivid sequences. But my writing style draws people in, particularly those who have never heard of me, but have picked up one of my novels. A friend of mine who rarely reads, picked up one of my novels at a church sale and enjoyed it that much he continued to buy my books, enjoying them in the way you enjoy an author you have 'discovered'. His wife claimed that I was the third person in their marriage, but now she has started reading my books. I write in the way I want to read books and be excited, enthralled and drawn in by them. I have to understand what my readers want and write for them, not for myself.

_--- edited... no self-promotion outside the Book Bazaar forum. please read our Forum Decorum thread._


----------



## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

I prefer a good plot/story and interesting characters over language.


----------



## gryeates (Feb 28, 2011)

I disagree with this split because I don't see why you can't have all of those elements in a novel; great characters, great plot and a great use of language. Surely if a writer wishes to evoke empathy in a reader with their protagonist then they need to know how to use language to do so, similarly if they wish to engage us with their plot they need to be able to pick out and deploy the right words and phrases to pique our interest. 

I have novels and short stories on my shelves and on my Kindle that some might argue are more driven by character or plot but I would counter that you can't separate these things from the language as it is employed by the author and in some cases, the authorial voice itself takes on the burden of being a character and even being the plot. 

William Burroughs' Naked Lunch is a great example as it is seemingly light on characters as they are all hallucinatory archetypes and the plot is a series of loosely-connected vignettes but because of the way Burroughs uses his language there is still the sense of character and plot there because these become inseparable from the scattershot prose-poetic style he employs. Going to back to my opening point, you do empathise with these strange semi-human characters Burroughs writes about and you are engaged with the plot, which is his very skewed and highly politicised take on our reality and this is all because of the language so I would say you cannot really have one element without the others.


----------



## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

gryeates said:


> I disagree with this split because I don't see why you can't have all of those elements in a novel; great characters, great plot and a great use of language.


I think everyone agrees that having both is the ideal situation. So the thread is just asking which of the two has the biggest impact on your enjoyment of a book.

For instance, if I'm ranking three books that can be categorized as:

1. Great plot and characters, brilliant writing.
2. Great plot and characters, average writing
3. Brilliant writing, but average plot and characters

...I'd rank them in just that order. Having both is ideal, but if I can't have that I care more about having a plot and characters that suck me in, than having the quality of the writing linguistically impress me as I'm reading fiction for the stories first and admiring the writing second.


----------



## gryeates (Feb 28, 2011)

mooshie78 said:


> I think everyone agrees that having both is the ideal situation. So the thread is just asking which of the two has the biggest impact on your enjoyment of a book.
> 
> For instance, if I'm ranking three books that can be categorized as:
> 
> ...


I understand that about the thread, my point is that I don't think the three are easily divisible. Certainly not for me and I don't tend to pick up books with any of these factors predominantly in mind, nor recommend them favouring one or two of the three.


----------



## mooshie78 (Jul 15, 2010)

I don't pick books based on them by any means, but I do reflect on them when reading and thinking about the book after finishing etc.

I'd say most of the books I read don't excel in both areas.  Especially since I read a lot of fantasy so there's a lot of books with good stories and characters, but the technical quality of the writing is nothing special.

So I don't have a problem with the distinction.

For me plot and characters are central.  It's the same with movies--I care a lot more about having a great plot and great characters that suck me in than I do about having top notch cinematography, acting and score etc.  Definitely prefer having both, but that's often not the case outside of the award winning caliber films.


----------



## gsjohnston (Jun 29, 2011)

in this post-twitter world, can you write a character driven novel?  People are tuned to short attention spans.  To not have a rolling plot seems to put most people off.  But somethings I've read lately seem to have forgotten about character almost completely.


----------



## emilyward (Mar 5, 2011)

If I have to choose, stories and character trump poetic language. Poetic language means nothing if it doesn't have a point, but great characters and an engaging story can make up for simple writing. I write the same way.


----------



## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm definitely all about story.  Great use of language is fun, but what I mainly want is "invisible" language: I want it to support the story, not the other way around.  That's why I frequently got bored with books they made me read in school.

Of course, I expect things to be grammatical and at least decently written, or that's even more distracting and pulls me out of the story badly.


----------



## Scott Reeves (May 27, 2011)

For me as a reader, plot and interesting ideas come first. The style of the writing is second. I like someone who has a good command of the language and uses it with a bit of flair, but doesn't go all "artsy fartsy" and write solely in an attempt to generate clever, witty or shocking prose. Character comes dead last with me. To me, a character is merely a viewpoint through which to experience the story. I don't have to "care" about a character to enjoy a book. I think a lot of potentially good books are killed by overdeveloped characters. _Rama II_ by Arthur C. Clarke and Gentry Lee is a good example of that. The first hundred pages of that book is all soap opera and flat writing, and I eventually gave up on it. I suppose there was a story in there somewhere, but it sank beneath the weight of all that character drama.

The best example of what I like in a book is pretty much anything written by Jack Vance. He's got a great, unique writing style and tells great stories.


----------



## Indy (Jun 7, 2010)

I had never thought there were different types before, but if I had thought, it would be something like "people who like trash and people who like good reading."  Currently my idea of "trash" has to do with bodice rippers that include vampires and such, and that's hypocritical of me to say, because I haven't read much of it.  I just tell people I'm a classics freak and if I'm at work, I tell people to quit asking me what I'm reading.

Anyhow.  I would say I value language very highly, almost to the point where it could cause the plot to suffer and I would still read it.  However, there still has to be a plot, or I will tear my hair out.  Victor Hugo can get away with a rabbit trail that lasts thirty pages and tells me every single detail of the battle of Waterloo, but it's because that becomes a little story in and of itself.  Along the way there are numerous turns of phrase that keep me interested in what he'll say next.  There aren't many folks who can do that very well.  I'll read things that are plot-driven with indifferent or dry-sounding language, but like another poster above, I won't reread them.


----------



## Nick Wastnage (Jun 16, 2011)

I hear all the points in the thread, but for me if the plot, characters, dialogue and descriptions are good then I find the writing is usually good as well. A writer that scores on all the four things mentioned, can probably string together a good sentence or two. So guess I'm not going to choose between any of them. I want them all to be good.


----------



## Akincaid87 (Jul 5, 2011)

I haven't put a lot of thought into what sort of reader/writer I am.  I write things that I would like to read; things I feel haven't been explored (or at least, that I haven't seen explored.)  I like to try to put my own unique twist on familiar situations, or to put a bizarre slant on everyday settings.  I like the works of H.P. Lovecraft and Stephen King, and I like Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind, and Robert Jordan.  

I guess then I'm a bit of both; character and plot driven, and I like a well turned phrase as well.  I don't really see a dichotomy there though; I think a story with a strong plot will have strong characters to drive it, and I think a story should be written in the best prose an author can muster.  

Think of it as a show car...if you take an old beater to a car show, you'll be laughed off the premises.  My neighbor used to show cars, built them from the frame up actually, and he not only made sure the engine was top notch, but that the car's look would draw the eye and make you say "Wow..look at that!"  It is the same when writing a story (of any length.)


----------



## Steven Slavick (May 15, 2011)

I read for both plot and character. If you write the way you should (character is plot) then you can have both. However, if the character is great and the plot isn't really focused (John Irving, for example), I'd be willing to continue reading. And if characterization is lacking but the plot is riveting, I'd also be willing to continue reading, but this doesn't happen often. Usually if I don't care about a character, why should I care about the plot?


----------



## KMA (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm greedy and want it all. Is that too much to ask?


----------



## Colin Taber (Apr 4, 2011)

KMA said:


> I'm greedy and want it all. Is that too much to ask?


Of course not!


----------



## Evelyn Collier (Jul 7, 2011)

I love book with interesting characters, convoluted plots and well described locations. The characters can have ordinary jobs, but they have to grab my attention in some way. Can't stand helpless females who wait for a man to rescue them. Hate fluffy women who only think about how they look and what they wear. I love characters who are passionate about something. I like to know what they look like.

The locations can be anywhere from a slum to a mansion as long as it's well described and credible. Hate long descriptions that go on and on for pages.


----------



## HDJensen (Apr 20, 2011)

I definitely tend to read character-driven stories. If I'm not fascinated by the characters, I don't care what they're going through or where they're going. I write character-driven stories for this same reason. When I think about my favorite books, they are my favorite because the characters wouldn't leave my thoughts, sometimes long after I finished reading the book. When I'm writing, I'm writing because there are characters in my head begging me to tell their story.


----------



## LucieSimone (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm all about the voice of the author, which I think is a combination of authentic characters and unique prose. For example, I can read and love a relatively plotless story if the voice is really engaging like in Jen Lancaster's Bitter is the New Black. There was really no plot to speak of in this (perhaps because it's a memoir and not fiction), but her voice was so strong and hilarious I laughed my way from beginning to end. On the contrary, I absolutely detested Dan Brown's The Davinci Code because I hated the prose. The plot was, for me, the only compelling factor, but it was a real struggle to finish simply because I hated his writing style.


----------



## Theresaragan (Jul 1, 2011)

I love this question. I want a good story with great characters. Nothing worse than reading about people I don't care about. Every once in a while though, a great story will suck me in even though the characters might not appeal to me. I am an eclectic reader and writer. I love Stephen King, John Grisham, Laura Lippman (who I just discovered), Lisa Gardner and I also love Jude Deveraux, Susan E. Philips, Rachel Gibson. I absolutely fell in love with Seabiscuit by Laura Hillenbrand and that was because of the horse. Somehow the author managed to make the horse come alive like any other great character. The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls was wonderful reading. Yeah, it's definitely about character and story for me.


----------



## SSantore (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm greedy.  I want good writing, with a good story, with characters that I care about.  Many "literary" writers who are just into language look down on plot driven books.  A little story to illustrate that point.

Several years ago I was in a bank teller line and started talking to the man in front of me.  Rather, he struck up the conversation, because I was his daughter's teacher.  We got on the subject of Stephen King.  This man informed me that he had gone to school with Stephen.  (Aside here: I have only read one of Stephen King's books.  I don't need his ideas sparking my nightmares!)  I mentioned that Stephen King was a good writer.  He, with a curl of his lip, said, "He's a good story teller."  Then he went on to tell me how he had written ten novels, but had never attempted to send them to a publisher, because "that would be so commercial".


----------



## Cindy416 (May 2, 2009)

NogDog said:


> While there are aspects of punctuation that are somewhat gray areas as far as the "rules" go, there are many that are not. When you bend/break rules, you risk jarring the reader out of the moment and making him/her notice the actual letters and punctuation on the page as opposed to the flow of words and ideas they should be enjoying. An incorrectly used comma can be just as attention-getting as a misspelled word or incorrect grammar. If you are going to break the rules in any of those (punctuation, spelling, grammar), it should be done with great care and only if that is the only way to appropriately communicate what needs communicating, but it should never be done out of ignorance.
> 
> IMHO, of course.
> 
> ...


Love the quote, NogDog! I agree with you about punctuation, spelling, and grammar rules being broken. Saying that they can jar the reader out of the moment is very true. (Having been a teacher for 31 years, I have a difficult time getting past punctuation, spelling, and grammar mistakes.)



Nick Wastnage said:


> I hear all the points in the thread, but for me if the plot, characters, dialogue and descriptions are good then I find the writing is usually good as well. A writer that scores on all the four things mentioned, can probably string together a good sentence or two. So guess I'm not going to choose between any of them. I want them all to be good.


My sentiments exactly.


----------



## joanhallhovey (Nov 7, 2010)

I think I am both kinds of reader/writer. I love great writing, characters that are rich in portrayal.  And I do love a great story.  Catherine Cookson was a wonderful storyteller, also a fine writer.  Ruth Rendell's novels, most of them anyway, are brilliant, character driven and at the same time, intricately plotted and highly suspenseful.  She manages it all, in my opinion, as did the late Patricia Highsmith.  But I don't think the writer's style should draw attention to itself.  A personal opinion.  It should never convey a shout of 'Look ma, I'm writing'.    
I tried to keep that in mind when I'm writing my novels.
Joan


----------



## SJWrightAuthor (Feb 11, 2011)

ilyria_moon said:


> Vibrant characters and a great plot. I appreciate the beauty and intricacies of language, but I like to read and write fast-paced stories that have strong characters who I feel like I know.


I'm the exact same way. Especially when it comes to writing, I tend to concentrate on fast-paced plots that feature at least a main character that I can totally relate to in many ways.


----------



## KateEllison (Jul 9, 2011)

As a reader, I'm both. I think I'll take a fantastic plot with strong, interesting characters over beautiful wordsmithing, but I do appreciate both. _Life of Pi, The Poisonwood Bible,_ etc have gorgeous language and are some of my favorite books, but I also enjoy the genre fiction. All I ask is that the language doesn't detract from the story. If it's excellent writing, that's just icing on the cake of a good story.

As a writer, I focus much more on the plot and characters. If I can work in some beautiful language, I'm thrilled. But it's not my highest priority.


----------



## Ann Chambers (Apr 24, 2011)

For me, it takes both a great story and at least decent writing skills. A few years ago, I picked up a book by a top author I hadn't read before. The blurb on the jacket sounded great. Then I started reading. It was a GREAT story, but the writing was so poor that I had to fight my way through it. I did finish it, but will never buy/read another book by this author. 

So I think it's not worth reading a book that has beautiful writing but no plot, but likewise it's not worth my time (and frustration) reading a book that has a great plot but lame writing. Picky, picky, I suppose.


----------



## B Regan Asher (Jun 14, 2011)

You're not that picky, Ann.  You know what you want and so that's what you should get.  Someone else might want something else.  But in the end I think you are correct and a good book needs decent characters, plot and writing.  Different books will focus on different aspects but if one of these elements is wholly lacking I can not imagine who would want to read it.


----------



## John Dorian (Jul 23, 2011)

For me, it's very much in the writing. I don't care very much for a good story, I like delivery and punch. Those are two things only an excellent writer can provide, because they keep it to the point. I don't tend to remember much of what I have read after I have read it, I just like to enjoy it while i'm reading it. Because of this intricate storylines and character backgrounds are a huge bother, I just like things to happen.


----------



## Dawn McCullough White (Feb 24, 2010)

I want to read great prose.  That's not to say that occasionally I don't enjoy a good story with good characters but for me, it's mostly enjoying the language.

As a writer, I'm character driven.

Dawn


----------



## Guest (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm someone interested in new perspectives. I just want to see the different points of view people come up with.


----------



## Ben Reeder (Jun 28, 2011)

Use of language is nice and all that, and good characters are enjoyable to learn about, but I want a good story where I care about the outcome, with characters that I WANT to see succeed.  For me, a big part of that is the writer's voice. I'm more of a Butcher/Whedon fan when it comes to the voice of the character, because as much as I want to fall in love with the view of the countryside or the glamour of the urban cityscape, I want to love the place itself as much as I want to see my protagonist stand back up and beat the snot out of the bad guy. It has to be a balance of story and voice for me.


----------



## B Regan Asher (Jun 14, 2011)

Absolutely right Ben!!!


----------



## Angerona Love (Aug 5, 2011)

I like character-driven stories. I love to engage my mind in a character I care about. I care about language and don't care for clumsiness when a good edit can take care of so many bumbles, and my first interest is the characters, how they interact, and how they tell the story.

This thread makes me want to get back to my novel! In concentrating on nonfiction, I forgot how much fun fiction can be.


----------



## Ann Herrick (Sep 24, 2010)

Characters, story, language--in that order.  And I want to be so drawn into the story that I'm not stopping to admire the language all the time the way Oprah always seemed to do.


----------



## joanhallhovey (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm both character and story driven.  If I haven't an emotional investment in the character,  whether my own or another author's, I quickly lose interest.  Stories are about people, and if readers can't care about those people, nothing else you do will matter.  The reader won't care what happens to your characters and probably won't finish the book.

Best, Joan


----------



## balaspa (Dec 27, 2009)

I need a good story that moves at a good pace.  If it's beautiful and the author spends 18 pages just describing a scene, I get antsy.


----------



## indiebookslist (Aug 5, 2011)

@wonderfulray - You had me at drummer.

At any rate, I agree. I've seen a room described down to dust on a Ming-era vase, and by the time they finish describing the posh surroundings, I have no idea where I am in the story. 

Reading was made for imagination, so while some occasional descriptive language is necessary to set the mood, my brain is doing just fine at filling in the details with the room I want to see.

Dialogue and character, on the other hand, can't be sparse or absent. Keep me entertained, engrossed, and otherwise occupied.


----------



## Tara Maya (Nov 4, 2010)

balaspa said:


> I need a good story that moves at a good pace. If it's beautiful and the author spends 18 pages just describing a scene, I get antsy.


This is why it's not possible to "have it all." A book that moves at a fast click, throwing the characters into one earth-shaking event after another, just isn't going to have the same amount or kind of character development as a book that lingers over the way a character has coffee with his estranged wife in the morning. An example is Never Let Me Go. I LOVE that book, and I love how deeply I came to care about the characters. But I felt there were other things that the book didn't explore, like the science fiction logic of the entire premise was incredibly weak (for straight sf). Since it was really about humanizing the people involved, that other stuff didn't matter, and, in fact, would have only been a distraction. Other books that deal with the same subject might take the opposite approach. The characters might not be as intimately drawn, but they would be more involved in driving the politics and technology of the world.

Both approaches are valid, and it's not fair and not possible, to demand a book do both at once.


----------



## GerrieFerrisFinger (Jun 1, 2011)

SCiofalo said:


> I'm hugely character driven, both in what I read and what I write. I can read any genre if I love the characters. Beautiful, poetic use of the language is a definitely a bonus (a huge one) but the first thing I look for is great characters.


My stories are character driven. They name themselves, they write the story. I have to keep them to the point. If not they can get like the wordy professor who goes on and on before he gets to the point. I remind them what the plot is and what there goal is. They shape up. :-D


----------



## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

I can't read a book if it is badly written, however good the story might be ... I write too, and clumsy prose just grates on me. But I also agree that the prose style should advance the plot, not weigh down upon it. A writer should be aiming, always, for the lot: good prose, a good story that moves along, and good characters too. I realise that's a tall order, but hey, who said writing was supposed to be easy?


----------



## Anne Maven (Apr 18, 2011)

Love relevant description and fully explored characters, both as a reader and a writer. Can read anything at all, except pointless violence. Of course, nothing beats a well paced story.


----------



## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

People are what matter.  In life and literature, people are what matter.  Ideas only matter insofar as they impact people.

Got an amazing world with flying pink unicorns and talking lawnmowers?  Fine, but if it doesn't impact how the characters act then what's the point?

Beautiful language is beautiful.  Words are awesome things and when played with well it's breathtaking.

But here's the thing.  Breathtaking language can get in the way of the story and that just seems wrong to me.

Of course, craptacular language can get in the way of the story and that is definitely wrong to me.


----------



## marimorimo (Aug 8, 2011)

As someone mentioned earlier, I love _effective _use of prose.

I hate florid prose written for the sake of showing off the writers' chops. I also hate awkward and poorly-written prose. No matter if they're plot and character-driven or whatever.

If the writer is good and the writing effective, the words would *disappear*.


----------



## Robin Hawke (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm wondering...

Recently read a Gaiman book, well-written in that invisible type of way. A river current.
Am reading Olive Kittredge, every word is talented.  A beautiful deep pond.
Have read several of the action-impulse, adrenaline producing, kareening plots. Waterfalls.

I dip in and out of the pond, read the river currents quickly and efficiently, and go over the waterfall in a single night.


----------



## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Robin, I also enjoyed Oliver Kitteridge and bought copies for friends for Christmas!

I'm afraid that, in general, since I started writing, I've become a terribly critical reader.  It's not that I think I'm *all that*, but I have these special goggles now, where I see writing critically, in order to edit.  I can't take them off!  I was trying to read an otherwise very lovely story, but the author kept using the word "just", over and over on every page, and it really sapped my enjoyment.

However, when I do find a book that makes me swoon, it's even more delightful.


----------



## Joseph DiFrancesco (Aug 1, 2011)

I just look for a good story, well told. There are times I have read books, not so much for their story, but rather for the eloquence of the author.

Some strange examples:

_*The Company : Portrait of a Murderer * _ 
Arabella Edge

_*The Book of Azrael*_
Leilah Wendell

I have to say though, that for me, a great story will most often trump great writing.


----------



## Michael_J_Sullivan (Aug 3, 2011)

L.J. Sellers said:


> I like to read and write, complex stories with engaging characters. I'm also a journalist who prefers straightforward writing to poetry and obscure metaphors. I like language, but for me it's only a means to an end, not necessarily an art.


By in large, this describes me for the vast majority of my reading/writing. That being said, I can also appreciate works that are written specifically to illustrate the craft of writing: a well turned phrase, a great metaphor. But when approaching these works it is done so deliberately.


----------



## Joseph DiFrancesco (Aug 1, 2011)

Well stated


----------



## Patrick Reinken (Aug 4, 2011)

NogDog said:


> I want it all.


Me, too.

I certainly believe you can find reader/writer categories that boil down to "loves good stories/great characters" and "loves the beauty of the words as written."

But I refuse to believe you can find only those two. Or that there isn't at _least_ a third group - a group that looks for and finds good stories and great characters and a writing style that, at its best, can make other writers read it and think, "Holy $#!+, I might as well give up!"

I think of Russo and Franzen and Chabon and Steinbeck and others, and I see that category in the people who read them and love all or even just some of their books.


----------



## dvberkom (Jan 3, 2011)

Fun thread! I read Hiaasen, Grafton, Rowling, Follett, Sandford, Silva, Connelly, Hemingway, Gregory, Burke, etc. All have their strengths, but most are interesting to me b/c they write great characters and stories. I've read several of the classics and loved Dostoyevsky, Dickens, et al, but I really have to be in the mood. 

That said, I've found that the busier I am and the older I get, the less patience I have for exposition/description. Just tell me what I need to know in a sentence or two and get on with it! Especially in thrillers- if I pick up a thriller, I want action, movement, surprises, tension. Historicals, not so much. 

I have a tendency to "write lean"- not much description- just enough to give the reader a picture, then it's off to the races! One of my critique partners does exactly the opposite and believe me, we've had some great "discussions"! Neither is right or wrong. It's just a difference of opinion/taste.


----------



## John Nelson (Jun 7, 2011)

I like to read smart books that make me think. I like characters that are fallible, complex, and human. 
I wrote a dystopian thriller with complex characters and (hopefully) a thought provoking and tightly bound storyline.  I guess you could say I write what I like to read (Orwell, Huxley, Steinbeck, Sinclair Lewis, Voltaire, etc...)


----------



## jmoralee (Sep 6, 2011)

I think having a good plot and interesting characters are essential.  A lyrical writing style is a bonus - but only as long as it doesn't interfere with telling a good story.  I don't like reading books when I know the writer is just showing off.  Tell a story!


----------



## normcowie (Jun 21, 2011)

I hate to be bored. I don't like plodding books that take forever to develop while introducing us to all of the wonderful facets of the characters. Give me The Dresden Files over Jane Austin any day. Sure, I can appreciate beautiful prose as much as anyone ... well, not as much... but enough. But some people like poetry while others, like me, are unrepentant trolls.  

I write the same way. If you like the first page of my books, you'll like the whole thing ... and you won't be bored ... or be dazzled by my sensitive, exotic, poetic prose.

Norm


----------



## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

I agree with Norm. I want a book that engages me immediately and holds my attention throughout. Good plot, believable characters, natural dialogue and no boring waffly bits in the middle. Fast action with lots of suspense.


----------



## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

I used to read a lot of books that focused on beautiful language, often at the expense of a compelling plot. The more I read the more bored I became, so I eventually gravitated toward character driven, genre fiction that moved fairly quickly, which isn't to say I don't appreciate P.D. James or Elizabeth George or Margaret Atwood. It's just that my tastes are changing and I haven't found many authors that do both really well, yet. I'm sure they're out there. I just have to keep looking!


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Joseph DiFrancesco said:


> I just look for a good story, well told. There are times I have read books, not so much for their story, but rather for the eloquence of the author.
> 
> Some strange examples:
> 
> ...


I understand what you mean, I'm like that about Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Victor Hugo, to name a couple of examples. Marquez is just a beautiful writer.

Maybe even Stephen King really....I dont like horror but he's a great storyteller.


----------



## KR Jacobsen (Jul 19, 2011)

wonderfulray said:


> Characters and plot, along with the _competent_ use of language, is good for me.
> 
> If the writer can elevate (for lack of a better word) his or her language to something more interesting than a VCR instruction manual, ideally in a way that suits the story, so much the better. I like to think of the narrative voice as a character, even in a story told from the third person point of view.
> 
> ...


I think you've summarized it almost exactly the way I see things, and it's doubly appropriate because I'm a drummer! 

Prior to opening this thread and reading through it, I hadn't really considered what "kind" of books I read -- I just know what I like. Having said that, character-driven is definitely the winner here, also with a strong emphasis on story. I read Salvatore, Butcher, Knight, Weis & Hickman, and Barry along with others. But then I also love Kelly Link and Aimee Bender, and they can weave one heck of an intricate web with words. And of course, there's Ray Bradbury (I was lucky enough to see him speak a couple of years ago) who I don't think gets enough credit as being an amazing wizard with words, never mind his characterization and plots. Oh, and there's always Poe and King...I can keep at this all day!

Going back to what wonderfulray said about drummers, I like to think I write the way I play: solid, nothing flashy, but with a well-timed tasteful fill and some ghost notes here and there. I'm not trying to stand out; I just want to keep the band in time.


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Scott Reeves said:


> Character comes dead last with me. To me, a character is merely a viewpoint through which to experience the story. I don't have to "care" about a character to enjoy a book. I think a lot of potentially good books are killed by overdeveloped characters.


Altho I wouldnt say character comes dead last for me, you and I are on the same page. The danger for the author is...what if I dont like your lead characters? I tend to be fairly judgemental about the personal details and if they continue to make poor decisions in their personal lives....either I start skipping those details (if the story is good and strong enough to carry the book) or just quit.

I like story, plot, suspense, details (esp. forensic details), descriptions of cultures, planets, ecosystems, organisms, legal and criminal details.....and characters that keep it moving along and dont have wooden dialog.

Robin Cook (Coma) is one writer who had good plots, even wrote the stories well, but his dialog was/is terrible and fake-sounding.


----------



## Verbena (Sep 1, 2011)

I am a plot and character driven reader, and writer. But sometimes I shift, to enjoy purely the beautiful languages. I think that language ability is somehow a born gift, which is very hard to improve. But you can make progress in creating good stories and characters through reading.


----------



## Lursa (aka 9MMare) (Jun 23, 2011)

Akincaid87 said:


> Think of it as a show car...if you take an old beater to a car show, you'll be laughed off the premises. My neighbor used to show cars, built them from the frame up actually, and he not only made sure the engine was top notch, but that the car's look would draw the eye and make you say "Wow..look at that!" It is the same when writing a story (of any length.)


Meh, I'll have a whole lot more fun in a beater...take it anywhere, dont have to worry about scratches, put your feet up on the dash and drive....go anywhere, push some limits, and not be afraid of dings.

I dont need the polish, I need the real meat of it. The polish is a bonus. I will admire that true abilty to wrap up quality storytelling in an elegant package....but I dont need it. When I read fiction, I really just want to be entertained.


----------



## JustinDennis (Sep 6, 2011)

Definitely character and plot. Voice, style, and creative use of language can really make a book flow and make it more enjoyable, but what use is that if the plot is no good?


----------



## Linda Andrews (Aug 16, 2011)

Definitely character driven with a well thought out plot (hopefully not too predictable). I love words and am amazed at how some writers can twist them in beautiful and unexpected ways but if the story isn't engaging, I'm liable to put it down.

Linda


----------



## Vanessa Wu (Sep 5, 2011)

Most of us are sophisticated readers and we're capable of dealing with all kinds of subtlety in language. But when a book is really good you forget you're reading.

This, at any rate, is what I look for a in a book. I want to forget I'm reading.

This requires great experience and skill on the part of the writer. Most writers who can achieve it have put a huge amount of work into their art, which largely goes unnoticed.

I think Stephen King is one of those who can achieve this, to give just one example. 

At the same time I love the short stories of Eudora Welty, whose writing is perfect and immortal.


----------



## Robin Hawke (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm reading Margaret Atwood, _Blind Assassin_, and I'm spellbound. The characters are not my favorites; the plot is easily disregarded, even tedious at times, rarely entertains though I frequently chuckle ...but every paragraph keeps me hooked with its perception.

What kind of reader am I? Willing to go where a masterful author will take me.


----------



## 48306 (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm all about the story. If the author is a good storyteller, a weaver of words who can keep me enthralled, I'll keep reading.

I'm also a sucker for unique metaphors and similes. I like them sprinkled like pepper throughout the story; sparingly added to kick up the flavor without overwhelming the main dish.


----------



## GerrieFerrisFinger (Jun 1, 2011)

SCiofalo said:


> I'm hugely character driven, both in what I read and what I write. I can read any genre if I love the characters. Beautiful, poetic use of the language is a definitely a bonus (a huge one) but the first thing I look for is great characters.


I try for a balance between characters, voice and plot, but since the characters tell and are the story, I have to go with stronger characters. I have not finished reading books when two or more characters irritate me.


----------



## screwballl (Jan 4, 2011)

I want a good story, the characters can be a little underdeveloped and writing not that great as long as the overall story is a good one, within limits of course. A "book" written on what seems to be a cell phone will never work just as a book with characters without any depth can be horrible.


----------

