# YA: Throwback and FireHouse



## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I know that nobody here will be interested in these YA books about high school wrestling but since we talked about them in the book signing thread I thought I'd blab anyway. I finished re-editing them and they're about to become dead tree books. Now all I need are a few props (fake cauliflower ears, a bowl of peppermints, a few bottles of St. Pauli Girl on ice to give me some courage) and some work on my table side manner and I'll be good to go.










Throwback has been a DTB since 2004 so it's more popular than FireHouse. I edited it and actually changed the basic premise, which was that the protag is cheating the system. A lot of wrestling people disliked that and in my old age I came to agree with them. I also filled in some gaps because I left too many issues up to the reader to decide. The writing is still klunky (it was my first born) but I think it's better than it was.










I like FireHouse a lot more. Besides the writing being better, I prefer the story. This one isn't as popular in the wrestling world as Throwback, probably because it's never been a DTB. If I drew a Venn diagram of "wrestling people" and "eBook readers" the intersection between the two circles would be tiny. For anybody who follows politics, that's the high school yearbook photo of Senator Norm Coleman of Minnesota on the cover (yeah, the guy who was beaten by Al Franken). And no, in my longstanding tradition of stealing content for my hack-job book covers, I don't have permission to use it. If somebody makes a fuss, well, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Anyway, I'm now sending blurbs and plugs to the people who cover and blog about high school wrestling around the country. If they are as kind to me as they were last time maybe I'll sell a few books. I set the prices at the bare minimum and I'm still giving them away on Smashwords.

Here goes nothing, or I should say "Bottom's up!" It ought to be fun.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

The DTB's are done and plugs are falling into place!


From FireHouse:

    "His raw throat worried him as they quickly set up for the final song, the Aerosmith ballad that Fauquier always wanted.  He watched Herndon slip behind his keyboard consoles and flip a few switches.  When he was ready he nodded at Fauquier, who pointed back at him immediately.  Seconds later the clean sound of Herndon’s synthesized piano filled the ballroom.  So far that night Zach had won two matches and nailed four rock standards but this would be his stiffest challenge."


From Throwback:

    "After over thirty matches since the season began I finally had one that I was ashamed of.  Not because I didn’t win, not even because I was pinned, but because I wasn’t sure if I had tried hard enough or not.  When Strothmann put the hurt on me I had folded quickly.  I had a disturbing revelation as I climbed to my feet after the pin.  The relief that the match was over outweighed the disappointment of losing.  I had lost my edge."


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

<completely shameless self promotion>
Way cool. These two books are #1 and #2 on Smashwords young adult (and eBully is #3.)
</completely shameless self promotion>


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## Rye (Nov 18, 2008)

Congrats Dave!


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## Ricky Sides (Sep 16, 2009)

Now that is cool! 

WTG sir.

sincerely,
Ricky


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Hard copies are going out next week and then it's off to tournaments to sign a few copies.  I'm glad you folks talked me into doing that...


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

So it seems that every other person I saw at the matches yesterday asked "Are you on Facebook?" or told me that "Everybody is on Facebook!"

I know lots of writers promote via Facebook but I've always ignored that avenue because, well, you know, it's the unknown and all.  But after yesterday I decided to check it out.  

I was signing up for a Dave Conifer facebook account when I saw a little hyperlink at the bottom that seemed to be an option to set up a special page for my books.  Now I'm really confused.

What and how do you experienced marketers use Facebook?  I wish I'd paid more attention to it.  If anybody has a page set up, can you post your link so I can check it out (of course, I can't check it out until I have a Dave Conifer account...)


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## Author Eyes (Nov 26, 2009)

Dave, I am on Facebook. I love it, because I'm pretty active on my personal profile as well, so it's really easy to add info to it, such as my upcoming book signings, information about my novel, etc. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shelley-Stout/116887518693?ref=mf

New fans welcome!

Shelley Stout
author of RADIUM HALOS


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## KayakerNC (Oct 7, 2009)

For the....shall we say.....challenged....among us.
Which definitely includes me!


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## Adele (May 30, 2009)

Dave - I am new to Facebook and still struggling with it, my page is:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/MyGreyhound-Publishing/190556489272

Fans welcome.

I wish I could have a book page only, but it seems to force a personal account as well. I am still learning.


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## ReeseReed (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm on facebook too! I set up an account under my penname, where I post news about my writing and events:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?ref=profile&id=100000503023847

I also made a seperate fan page for my book, where I put updates on it.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Childproofed/164735588756?ref=ts

I'll be glad to walk you through setting it up...go ahead and make an account, and then we can "chat" on facebook and you can message me if you need help. I'm usually on facebook under my personal account though:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/thisismamashouse?ref=profile


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

I tried using Facebook, but it didn't work so well for me because of personal issues.  An ex was using the page to stalk me, believe it or not, and it got to the point that I had to stop posting anything there.  It was just harassment, not really dangerous, but who needs even that?  So. . . that's something for yall to consider before you put stuff out there on the Internet.  You never know who will end up reading it, or what they might do with the information they get.  If you have people out there who might not need to know where you are and what you're doing, you might want to think twice about using social media, or else choose very judiciously what you decide to put on your page.


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## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

I've been using Facebook more these days. I have my normal page under my real name which I post book stuff mainly or little things then I have two 'fan-based' pages I suppose I could call them for my two books that I usually update with things.

http://www.facebook.com/tsuto1?ref=name
http://www.facebook.com/pages/SEAL-Team-Omega/338011825276?v=wall
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Celtic-Evil-A-Fitzgerald-Brother-Series/212147328035?v=wall

I'm just so horrid at promoting that maybe once I get more at ease with the whole thing it'll be easier.


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## Chris J (Sep 18, 2009)

Facebook, MySpace, or any established Network is usefull for letting people know about your book.  I have accounts at both places, but haven't done much at Facebook, yet.  Most of the books I've sold are to people I meet at MySpace, and the way it works is quite simple.  All you have to do is invite people to be your friend, and tell them about your book with the invite.  You can also let them know about you book through messaging them, after they add you as a friend.  I don't mean over and over again, which would be rude.  Just write a little "thank you for the add" message, and include a picture of your book that links to your book's home page.

The way to make it work is by constantly adding friends.  Of course, you want to target those people who might be interested in what your book is about, so you should invite people who express an interest in your book's topic on their profile (if possible).  And of course, you want to have a little blurb on your profile page that tells people about your book/s, and where they can get them.  It also might help to blog a little, so people can determine your writing style.  

It occurred to me that doing that might be a little bit difficult for you, because your topic is high school wrestling.  The problem is that you would be targeting high school boys, and that is a little bit dangerous as well as quite difficult because of age restriction security.  For example, on MySpace you have to know the person's email address or sometimes last name, if they are under 17 years old, before you can add them.  Of course, that means that you can't even invite them to add you as a friend, unless you already know them.  And, if you invited a bunch of children to be your friend, you would probably attract quite a lot of attention from those who moderate such things.

Now that I'm thinking about that, it probably wouldn't be such a good idea for a writer of high school wrestling to invest much time there, unless adults are actually interested in high school wrestling.  I can't imagine that being an interesting topic for an adult, unless they happened to have a child involved in wrestling.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

The amateur wrestling community is huge and online.  I just have to figure out what to do with Facebook...


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## Chris J (Sep 18, 2009)

Ah, I thought you wrote about highschool wrestling.  Or is that the same as amateur wrestling?

But anyway.............

You should be able to find those who are interested in amateur wresting at Facebook, by looking at the friends of well known amateur wrestlers.  Then simply invite them to be your friend, and mention that you are an author of amateur wrestling books.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Chris, I'm sorry that I forgot to keep reading this thread. I want to cry because I just don't understand Facebook and it sounds like you do! I'm going to diagram your sentence and try to take your advice. I'm actually a computer guy but Facebook is so decentralized that I literally don't know what I'm looking at after logging on. Thanks for what you told me. It sounds like the coolest tool if I can master it.

I'm being interviewed for a feature on this web site on Monday:

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/

I just turned the hard copy books loose yesterday because I had a really tough battle with CreateSpace (a battle I lost). A little late but hopefully I'll get some traction fast.

Thanks again, Chris.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Just got the word that my books will be featured on Intermat tomorrow (Jan 21, 2010):

www.intermatwrestle.com

I've been friending people like a madman on facebook.  Thanks to everybody for their advice -- once I stopped trying to analyze facebook and just cut loose, I "got it" and it all made sense (sort of)...


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## ReeseReed (Dec 5, 2009)

daveconifer said:


> Just got the word that my books will be featured on Intermat tomorrow (Jan 21, 2010):
> 
> www.intermatwrestle.com
> 
> I've been friending people like a madman on facebook. Thanks to everybody for their advice -- once I stopped trying to analyze facebook and just cut loose, I "got it" and it all made sense (sort of)...


It's been so fun seeing your progress! "Dave just joined soandso wrestling group"...I'm glad you've braved the waters there


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

It sort of makes me feel like a loser.  Everybody knows I'm suddenly out there begging for friends. Oh well. 

edit: So, Reese, if I put it on my own "wall" tomorrow morning that my feature is up on Intermat, will everybody I'm friends with or fans of automatically see it?  

By the way -- I wrote a bunch of reviews in December that I thought I lost but didn't.  One was of Childproofed, which I just posted on Amazon...


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## ReeseReed (Dec 5, 2009)

daveconifer said:


> It sort of makes me feel like a loser. Everybody knows I'm suddenly out there begging for friends. Oh well.
> 
> edit: So, Reese, if I put it on my own "wall" tomorrow morning that my feature is up on Intermat, will everybody I'm friends with or fans of automatically see it?
> 
> By the way -- I wrote a bunch of reviews in December that I thought I lost but didn't. One was of Childproofed, which I just posted on Amazon...


Anything that you post on your wall your friends will see. If you post it on your fan page, then all your fans will see it. I'd suggest posting it on both, that's what I do


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

ReeseReed said:


> Anything that you post on your wall your friends will see. If you post it on your fan page, then all your fans will see it. I'd suggest posting it on both, that's what I do


Awesome advice. I read a ton of "how to" materials but this is 2-3 sentences that explains so much. You and Chris J. are to facebook promoting what Ed Patterson is to indie publishing -- thanks for saying it so clearly.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I made the cover of Intermat!

www.intermatwrestle.com

Now I'm trying to make the most of the exposure by talking it up on Facebook, which I'm learning as I go along.


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## ReeseReed (Dec 5, 2009)

daveconifer said:


> I made the cover of Intermat!
> 
> www.intermatwrestle.com
> 
> Now I'm trying to make the most of the exposure by talking it up on Facebook, which I'm learning as I go along.


That is awesome!! Right there on the front center, too! That has to be a great feeling. Great write up, too. Congrats!


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## ldenglish (Jul 18, 2009)

Congratulations Dave!

I think Facebook is worth the effort. It has been for me. I have my personal page and a fan page, and although I only have 64 official fans, they tell their friends about my books and I know that's generated sales and followers (of the books, if not the fan page.) It's a good way to give readers excerpts of your books/teasers, updates on publishing etc. I also have the fan page linked to Twitter, which in turn gives me/my books exposure to more people.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Whisperings/126692584745


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## Author Eyes (Nov 26, 2009)

I have a fan page too, which is mostly focused on my current novel. I have interesting links, news about reviews, etc.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shelley-Stout/116887518693?ref=mf

Shelley Stout
Author of RADIUM HALOS


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I've been experimenting on Facebook.  I have a homebase Dave Conifer page with lots of wrestling friends but I'm thinking that friends aren't the key to Facebook promotion -- fans are.  Is that correct?

As a new experiment I set up a separate fan page for Snodgrass Vacation.  It's got links, excerpts, reviews and all that good stuff.  Now I'm thinking that all I have to do is seek out some Disney nuts and ask them to be fans.  Is that a good model?  Is trolling around looking for these folks a bad thing?  I don't know the Facebook protocol but it seems like it's exactly what 'fan' is all about.

Once I have these millions of fans, is there a way I can send an occasional blurb out to all of them?

I really have a hard time figuring Facebook out, it seems so haphazard.  Maybe I'm just too old.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

I set up a fan page for my novel last year and attracted a lot of fans through Facebook ads. However, this di dnot translate into significant sales. It seems that, On Facebook, people will become fans of anything - often because their friends are. I recently took out a targetted ad and made lots of sales (also through Facebook).


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks, Derek.  I'll probably have the same experience but at least I'll learn something.

Here's my most pressing question, KBers.  I found a bunch of Disney fan pages littered with the names of potential suckers -- I mean, readers.  Is there any direct way to ask them to become fans of my Snodgrass Vacation page?  I'm getting the impression that Dave Conifer must first ask them to be friends.  Why would they want to be friends with Dave Conifer before they know he's written Snodgrass?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

You can either recommend the fan page to "friends" or you can take out a Facebook ad to collect fans (who you can then target with updates). Fans don't have to be friends.

I've just sold 40 copies of the Kindle version of my novel through Facebook in 2 weeks - a simple ad targeting Facebook users who have Kindle and Fantasy fiction as their interests. The ad campaign has only just plateaued. It has cost a total of £5.23, which is not too bad. Obiviously it's not a huge catch but not bad for the money.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Would you make changes to a five year old story?

In January I made a revision to Throwback based on reader feedback. Normally I don’t think it’s a good idea to change a book that’s already done. For one thing, there’s the butterfly effect. As we all know, there are repercussions in the plot for any change, no matter how small. What are the odds that I successfully made every adjustment needed to accommodate the change? Even something trivial like the color of a shirt or the make of a car could have been indirectly referenced later.

Then there’s the problem of trying to please everybody. Most readers didn’t mind this supposed flaw or didn’t feel strongly enough to mention it. Why cater to the few that did?

On a higher level, I think once a story exists it should remain in whatever state it was conceived in. Tinkering with something that’s five years old is taking a risk with the mood and tone that was in my head when I wrote it, which could distort the story. Nuance is important and it has to be consistent. That’s hard to do when merging what I thought and wrote five years ago with what I thought and wrote a few months ago. Am I making any sense?

But I did it anyway. After a few years intervened and I cracked the book open I realized that I agree with the criticism. It made me feel sick to think about what my character was up to. In the original version Ben was a cheater. This put off many, many wrestling fans, especially one man named Dave from Maryland (and isn’t that ironic?) Us wrestling people associate our sport with discipline and honor. The premise of the book is a dishonest course of action by the protagonist. Naturally that didn’t sit well with some fans of the sport and I found that it didn’t sit well with me anymore either.

I still felt that it was key to the tension of the story that Ben was hiding a secret so huge that revealing it would be catastrophic for him. Instead of a cheater he’s now a criminal – but his crime was one that he feels is morally defensible. What Ben did in the new version is actually worse in the legal sense, but somehow I have less of a problem with it (and wrestling fans feel the same way, I suspect).

Hopefully my plot surgery was complete and I smoothed over all the unintended consequences of the change. I still don’t think it’s a good idea to disturb a book already written but for me this one had extenuating circumstances.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I just donated a few copies of each of these books to the Keystone Brawlers Wrestling Club from Central Pennsylvania.  They're raising money to pay for their trip to compete in the Disney Duals (ironic)  in Orlando later in the month and I think they're raffling stuff off.  The man who runs the club was so grateful that he said this on Facebook:

"To all my wrestling friends here on facebook and everyone in general. Please check out my buddies fanpage. Author of well known wrestling book Throwback. Please check it out. Its a terrific book and Dave is a terrific guy. Does a ton for our sport of wrestling we all love so much. Please click like for the daveconiferfanpage. Thanks."

That was danged nice of him to say (I know, he might need some editing).


By the way, Kindle versions of Throwback and FireHouse are discounted to .79 on Amazon right now for some reason...


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Don't know about Throwback, but Firehouse was an easy fun read. Sort of like a redemption story combined with wrestling. Hard to resist.

Gratz on the shout-out!

David Dalglish


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I can tell wrestling season is just around the corner.  A few hard copies of these books have been selling.  I've decided to do book signings at one tournament per month during the season.  After getting some great advice about how to handle these I got so I wasn't so nervous about it last year.  To help me from feeling too self-conscious and grubby, I made a nice display listing all the junior clubs around the country that use the books as a fundraiser -- to make me look noble!

Let's hope wrestling fans start warming up to ebook readers...


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Not just about the wrestling!

"Though I don't know anything at all about wrestling, I still really enjoyed this book. After just a few pages I felt very invested in the characters, and found myself cheering Ben on each time he took the mat. I felt like this was a wonderful story from a teenage boys point of view, which is definitely outside of my normal reading. Overall I really enjoyed the book. I'm only giving it 4 stars because I felt like the ending needed a bit more. My teenage daughter is reading this now and is also really enjoying it." -- Smashwords review


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

New cover for FireHouse.










Now that wrestling season is here a bunch of Throwback hard copies are going out the door, but very few FireHouses. Now it looks more like a wrestling book. That looks like Zach, a kid with an attitude.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Deron Shank is going to be plugging these books during his webcast of the Conestoga Valley Buckskin Classic Wrestling Tournament in Pennsylvania tomorrow.  I guess it's a payback for the hard copy books I donate for fundraisers.  If I'd known about it sooner I'd have ordered a bunch of books, dialed up MapQuest and made a personal appearance.  Any excuse to see some grappling.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm already sending out copies of these at cost for wrestling clubs to use as fundraisers.  I'm even doing a few tournament book-signings.  

Lots of teen life in these books, too...


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