# The Great Mystery Writers Thread



## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Calling all mystery authors -- let's take the mystery out of our genre and talk shop. Mystery shop.

What do you write? Traditional? Cozies? Historical? Paranormal? 


I kinda write them all. Working on a cozy mystery and I'm publishing a YA paranormal mystery trilogy. My first book is a paranormal YA mystery set in 1996 -- a super genre mashup.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Yay, these kinds of threads are great.

Betsy


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## benjclark (Dec 4, 2015)

Working on my first (in a series, natch) of historical mysteries.  This first one is centered around an event in the 1910s.  It's not ... cozy, more like a kickass cozy, if that makes sense.  Softboiled?  I don't know.  I'm having a good time writing and researching it, so I think someone else will enjoy reading it.  I've written some history in my time, articles here and there, lots of museum exhibit text.  I'm a museum curator, so it's not too far afield for me.  

I've had my fits and starts for several years, but things are clicking along now, so ... yep.  Should be joining the Class of 2016!  

PS, Thanks for starting this thread!!


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm really happy to see this thread   I've published two (soon to be three) chick lit novels. Now I'm working on a new cozy mystery series ... I'm only 11K words into the first one ... hoping to have three books done by late spring/early summer.

As far as reading mysteries, I like Gina LaManna and Cindy Blackburn. I also read Amanda M. Lee's series ... Avery Shaw and Witches of the Midwest. 

I think my books will be along the lines of Avery Shaw and Lacey Luzzi, not the knitting/baking type stories, but I'm still planning on calling them cozies because they won't include sex and gore.

I'm looking forward to discussing mysteries ... I have questions about cover design, promotion, and how to launch a series.

I'll go ahead and throw a question out there: How long are your mysteries? My chick lit books are all around 50K words and I expect my cozies to come out around that length also.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I have a couple of standalone crime shorts, but I also write the Helen Shepherd Mysteries, a series of mystery novelettes. There are nine stories in the series so far with a tenth forthcoming soon.

I always find it difficult to classify my mysteries/crime fiction, since we don't really have all those cozy/hardboiled/traditional, etc... subgenre distinctions in my country. That said, I have the Helen Shepherd Mysteries classified as traditional mysteries and police procedurals, though going by the also-boughts, cozy fans like them, too, probably because they're not overly gory or violent.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm so happy you started this thread. My novel, *Shade*, is YA Paranormal Mystery. I'm planning to expand it into a six-book series.


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

benjclark said:


> Working on my first (in a series, natch) of historical mysteries. This first one is centered around an event in the 1910s. It's not ... cozy, more like a kickass cozy, if that makes sense. Softboiled? I don't know. I'm having a good time writing and researching it, so I think someone else will enjoy reading it. I've written some history in my time, articles here and there, lots of museum exhibit text. I'm a museum curator, so it's not too far afield for me.
> 
> I've had my fits and starts for several years, but things are clicking along now, so ... yep. Should be joining the Class of 2016!
> 
> PS, Thanks for starting this thread!!


Sounds like an interesting premise. Have you heard of Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries? It's an Australian series set post WWI. You might like it ... seems quite historically accurate. I watch it on Netflix (US). It's a book series too but I haven't read them yet.


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## benjclark (Dec 4, 2015)

Lucey Phillips said:


> Sounds like an interesting premise. Have you heard of Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries? It's an Australian series set post WWI. You might like it ... seems quite historically accurate. I watch it on Netflix (US). It's a book series too but I haven't read them yet.


I've seen the DVD covers somewhere .... Hmmmm.... Looks good. 20 books!  Lots of catching up to do. Thanks for sharing it.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm planning to start a mystery series later this year, focusing on Kyoko Nakamura, a character I wrote a short story for in The Dame Did It anthology. She's a private investigator in Osaka, Japan, and a lot of people liked the character and the story and requested more, so looks like it'll be my next series.


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## MooreFiction (Jan 8, 2016)

Lucey Phillips said:


> Sounds like an interesting premise. Have you heard of Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries? It's an Australian series set post WWI. You might like it ... seems quite historically accurate. I watch it on Netflix (US). It's a book series too but I haven't read them yet.


Thanks for reminding me of the Miss Fisher Mysteries Lucey. They are really well structured and great entertainment. Will have to go back and watch them all again.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

I write a series featuring an atheist detective with a fascination with comedy, women, and classic cars. It follows the Holmes/Watson and Wolfe/Goodwin model. In fact, whereas Wolfe is considered pastiche of Holmes; mine is pastiche of Wolfe. The POV character (the "Watson") in my stories is Cattleya Hoskin, an intelligent, witty, young woman in the mold of Stephanie Plum, who chronicles Schwartz' cases for a New Yorker-style magazine.

I also write crime/noir shorts, and recently published a collection.

Cool post.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

Erle Stanley Gardner (creator of Perry Mason) devised a mystery plotting system that is detailed in the appendices of Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.

The key to Gardner's method is plotting the villain's story first.

To do this, Gardner developed what he called "The Murderer's Ladder":

10. The necessity for eliminating the little overlooked clues and loose threads
9. The false suspect
8. The cover up
7. The flight
6. The actual killing
5. The first irrevocable step
4. The opportunity
3. The plan
2. Temptation
1. Motivation

The numbers are in chronological order. The murderer starts at the bottom and works his way up.

Gardner would plot the murder beginning with the motivation, the temptation, the plan, the opportunity, and the first irrevocable step.

At this point, the murderer is fully committed to his crime, but has not yet executed it. Then something happens that the murderer didn't count on, and he is forced to improvise. He takes steps that make sense to him in the moment, but will later puzzle the detective.

After the crime is committed, the murderer is forced to deal with the consequences of his missteps. This leads to a cover-up, framing a false suspect, and eliminating clues.

Once Gardner knew all this, he would plot out the detective's story. How does the detective find the clues? In what order? How does his incomplete knowledge lead him astray, etc.

Then he would write the detective's story.


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## 67499 (Feb 4, 2013)

Lucey Phillips said:


> Sounds like an interesting premise. Have you heard of Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries? It's an Australian series set post WWI. You might like it ... seems quite historically accurate. I watch it on Netflix (US). It's a book series too but I haven't read them yet.


Spent a great three years working in Melbourne and watch _Miss Fisher_ as much for the fun of trying to ID places I knew as well as for the amusing stories. Historical accuracy and the plots themselves are both pretty thin, tho'. As in most mysteries, the key is the characters, and Miss Fisher is a character.


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## Chrissy (Mar 31, 2014)

David Wisehart said:


> Erle Stanley Gardner (creator of Perry Mason) devised a mystery plotting system that is detailed in the appendices of Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.
> 
> The key to Gardner's method is plotting the villain's story first.
> 
> ...


Great info.

Have you found this method of mystery writing worked for you?


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## My Dog&#039;s Servant (Jun 2, 2013)

Sounds like some great story ideas here. I'm coming off a hard sf binge and have been sliding into cozies. Hurry up and write, you guys!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

David Wisehart said:


> Erle Stanley Gardner (creator of Perry Mason) devised a mystery plotting system that is detailed in the appendices of Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.
> 
> The key to Gardner's method is plotting the villain's story first.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. Just picked up this book.


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## angela65 (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm so happy this thread was started.

I'm working on my first cozy mystery series.  Supposed to be doing the 1000 words a day thing, but I'm currently in editing hell. I'll just have to catch up because I'm determined to get the first book out ASAP.

@David Wisehart- great info. Thanks so much.


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## Thisiswhywecan&#039;thavenicethings (May 3, 2013)

I write romantic cozies. My first series also has a paranormal element and a treasure hunt.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

I am a huge fan of mysteries, as a reader, but am just getting started into writing them. I am working on finishing my last few nonfiction titles, and then I am going to focus on my fiction writing. I have a couple chapters of my first mystery roughed out. I am not quite sure how to describe the series I have planned out. It takes place in the Pacific Northwest, in an area that is predominantly Native American. I would consider it a medical mystery series with a strong mystical element. The best way I can describe it is Northern Exposure meets Diagnosis Murder. 

I am excited about this thread. I have a lot to learn about writing mysteries and look forward to the discussion.


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## karenchester (Jan 5, 2016)

Great to see this thread!

I just published my first cozy mystery, and I feel like I have so much to learn about the genre.

While I still had my Scribd subscription, I binged on mysteries (especially after all the romance titles disappeared). I particularly liked the Hattie Davish mysteries set in turn of the century USA. Also love the Sugawara Akitada mysteries set in 11th century Japan.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Post here partly to mark the topic because I don't have a lot of time (and talking about mystery takes a lot of time for me!):

I write and read "traditional" mysteries of all kinds.  I'm not real happy with the changes to the cozy genre more recently, but I understand it, and want that audience to be happy -- I just wish we had a good term for what used to be called cozy and now is just left driving as "mystery."

My heroes are Agatha Christie, Frances and Richard Lockridge, Stuart Kaminsky and Donald Westlake.  I like the way all of them could combine elements we now think of as distinct genres -- suspense, cozy, domestic, hard-boiled, crime comedy -- but then, that was expected in the old days. Those mentioned above just mastered it.

My mystery series both combine elements.  Have Gun, Will Play is a mystery western -- I call it a "cozy with gunfights."  My other series (The Man Who Did Too Much) is closer to what we expect from a cozy -- regional, small town, amateur female sleuth.  Kind of silly, as the sleuth in question is slightly out of touch with reality.  I only have one book written so far in that series, partly because it's the kind of story that seems to just move forward with a relatively simple puzzle, but there is a lot going on under the hood. (I love that kind of story.)

There is always a bit of suspense/adventure element to the puzzle mysteries, both heavily influenced by Christie and Lockridge.

Camille


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

KGGiarratano said:


> My first book is a paranormal YA mystery set in 1996 -- a super genre mashup.


Just out of curiosity, why 1996?

I've written two cozies, that's how I started self-publishing a few years ago. My first mystery was set in 1996 - because that's when I wrote it. I wrote a mystery and intended to submit it to publishers (this was way before ebooks), and somehow that never happened. It was supposed to include cutting edge tech (modems! e-mail!) and the tech kept shifting on me and I couldn't keep up. It wound up in my filing cabinet, and a few years ago I was reading about ebooks and remembered that old mystery. Took it out and reread it and the stuff that was outdated a few years after I wrote it now looked quaint. So I formatted it and published it, leaving it set in 1996. Then I wrote a sequel - and that was HARD! I'll tell you what, writing something set in the RECENT past is a lot harder than setting something in a historical era; it's so hard to keep out anachronism. Now I'm writing Regencies, which is actually easier than writing something set in late-20th.


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## Issy (Aug 25, 2013)




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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

I write traditional British whodunits and have two series. The first, _The Verity Long Mysteries_, has a smart-mouthed, self-opinionated heroine that readers either love or hate, while the second, _The Gemini Detectives _is only 1 book long at present. I'm hoping to publish the second book next month.

Both series conform to the cozy genre by having no gore, no strong language - unless you count the occasional "damn" - and no overt sex, so I've listed them in that category, but there's definitely no cats, cookies, or quilting. Sorry, Betsy.


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## passerby (Oct 18, 2015)

Thanks for starting this thread! I have only one book published at this point. It's a murder mystery in the police procedural sub-genre.  I'm hoping to be able to launch book two in the series by March or April of this year. I'll probably posting like crazy, looking for wisdom from some of the veterans here on kboards!


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

I have a series of ten mysteries (and a couple of shorter stories related to them) which I have classified as cozies since this seems to be the closest category I can find - I think they are also under the 'traditional British' heading. They are set in the imaginary small town of Pitkirtly in Scotland. Although I don't live in a small town but in a suburb of Edinburgh, the people in this series are fairly similar to some of the people I know around here, but without actually being based on anyone in particular.

I also have a series of three 'Quest' novels which are slightly puzzling to classify - they are set in the 1950s in various locations around Britain, so I have put them under 'historical mysteries' but they are more like soft-boiled thrillers if anything, as the world they are set in tends to attract spies and traitors. I'm working on the fourth of these at the moment.

An unrelated project is a series of Edwardian novellas which I've had to put under 'historical' because they aren't mysteries or romances but they are obviously set in historical times.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

I write the Raina Sun mystery series. My sleuth is Chinese-American so there's some cultural stuff thrown in each book, and the first three center around a family secret. Her grandma is her Q, handing her random stuff that gets her out of the climax. Oh, did I mentioned "Raining Men and Corpses" is free?

I used the template from "The Weekend Novelist Writes a Mystery." I also start with the victim first and then the killer. So I basically write  the backstory first and then write the front story the reader is reading.


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

I published 3 cozies last year (in my sig) and they were a lot of fun to write. The MC is a TV actress who gets fired from her job (she played a detective) and moves back to her WASP-y hometown to attend college where she ends up channeling her former character to solve murders. Kind of Castle meets The Philadelphia Story.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

This is great! I am currently working on #6 in my Citrus Beach Series (#5 is waiting for editing, ugh!). I have also started a whole new series called Storm Voices and have the outline for a third called A Spy in the Family.  All will be on the cozy side, although Storm Voices will have a little paranormal too. A Spy in the family will flash back and forth between a grandmother who was the 1st spy and her granddaughter who has just been recruited. 
Sooo many words to write, sooo little time, lol.


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## lmckinley (Oct 3, 2012)

I started writing a historical mystery. Does that count  I've enjoyed reading a lot of mysteries, but never really felt the motivation to write one until recently. I'm excited about starting a new project, but I start a lot more things than I finish, so we'll see. I wanted to post so I don't lose this thread. I would love to learn from you all.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

joyceharmon said:


> Just out of curiosity, why 1996?
> 
> I've written two cozies, that's how I started self-publishing a few years ago. My first mystery was set in 1996 - because that's when I wrote it. I wrote a mystery and intended to submit it to publishers (this was way before ebooks), and somehow that never happened. It was supposed to include cutting edge tech (modems! e-mail!) and the tech kept shifting on me and I couldn't keep up. It wound up in my filing cabinet, and a few years ago I was reading about ebooks and remembered that old mystery. Took it out and reread it and the stuff that was outdated a few years after I wrote it now looked quaint. So I formatted it and published it, leaving it set in 1996. Then I wrote a sequel - and that was HARD! I'll tell you what, writing something set in the RECENT past is a lot harder than setting something in a historical era; it's so hard to keep out anachronism. Now I'm writing Regencies, which is actually easier than writing something set in late-20th.


I set it in 1996 because I love the 90s and I wanted to incorporate 90s alternative music into the narrative. At first I had an idea to set the book in present day and have the ghost die in 1996 and then my protag and the ghost could talk music from both time periods. But then I decided I wanted the whole story set in the 90s. The character is my age -- she's 17 in 1996. It was such a nostalgia trip to write. I have plans for another 90s mystery series, this time set in college.

Here's the other interesting thing: the prequel/sequel (The Lady in Blue) is set in 1955 and 1996.

Also, I love Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries on Netflix!!! It's so much fun to watch.


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## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

I have two books out, both in the mystery genre. My book City of Ghosts edges a bit more into thriller and is the first of a series that take place in Vienna, Austria.

My other book, "Collection", is an old fashioned noir (technically hard-boiled, I guess. Some people are picky about the distinction.) It's also got a bit of a sci-fi vibe as it deals with technology that doesn't currently exist. I consider it a bit of a mash up between "The Maltese Falcon" and "Blade Runner". I had a lot of fun writing it, but it doesn't sell that well. I'm still on the fence about doing another.

I'm planning a cozy series now and hope to start putting those out later this year.

I'd love to do a historical mystery, but I worry about the amount of research I'd need to make it feel real.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

I had to do research for my 1955 mystery. I bought a book on Ebay, published in 54, on teenage dating. That was a trip to read. I bought a book on 1950s fashions. I listened to 50s music. My father described the interior of a 50s car. I tried to be accurate, but I'm sure there's mistakes in there somewhere.

I have plans to write a YA mystery series set in the 20s, so that research will be a lot of work. 

I love historical mysteries, but they do require research. It's definitely a time commitment.


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## jec (May 13, 2015)

Hey everybody. I've loved reading through this thread. Have found some new series as a result. I write the Kadence MacBride mysteries. Kadence is an African-American amateur sleuth. My books are cozies in that the murder happens off stage and Kadence is an amateur sleuth, but I call them cozies with attitude. 

I've published the first two books in the series, Death of an Idiot Boss and Death of an Island Tart, and have plotted the first five books of a five book arc. In each book the murder forces Kadence to confront an aspect of herself that's preventing her from having a HEA with her boyfriend Terrence. My plan is to make Kadence and Terrence the African-American version of Nick and Nora Charles from the Thin Man Series.

Besides Nick and Nora Charles, some of my favorite sleuths include: Miss Marple, Hildegarde Withers, Agatha Raisin and Stephanie Plum (the earlier books not the later ones). 

Thanks for the heads up about Secrets of the Best Selling Writer. Just bought it and looking forward to reading.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

Issy said:


> I have done so much research for mine - and I'm still terrified because there are some things that people believe to be true, but aren't. So even if I am 100% accurate (unlikely but I strive for it) there will STILL be complaints from people who feel they know better. All I can do is add a note to the back and cross my fingers...


Yes - I was even more worried about writing something set in the 1950s than I was about the Edwardian ones because of this. There are plenty of people still around who remember the 1950s! However one of my early reviewers seemed to think my depiction of London in 1951 was in line with her own memories. Sometimes I have more trouble with the places than with the history, hence my imaginary small town. Although Google maps, satellite view and street view can be amazingly useful.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

7seasonsgirl said:


> Hi everyone. Thanks for starting this thread. I hope we can help each other with insightful tips.
> I read a lot of cozy mysteries and I have already written the first two books of my new cozy series. I almost finished the third and I know exactly how I want the series to end and after how many books. Although I don't have the plots, - I tried to outilebut I ca't do it, so I gave up - I have all the covers and the titles. Why didn't I publish yet?
> 
> Well, I study the cozy mysteries since a while now and I try to understand what makes some books disappear from the lists after a few weeks while other series stay for years - at least two years- on the top 100 of the cozy mysteries and I have many questions to answer before publishing.
> ...


Honestly? I don't think most cozy readers are going to be happy with 35,000 words. I know some people doing okay with 40,000 (and mileage may vary on what is okay) but the most people doing the best are 50,000-words plus. Sorry. I'm in some private groups with a lot of cozy authors and I think 35,000 words is short for what people expect for the genre. There are outliers in every group, of course, but cozy mystery fans are chatty and I can't see them paying $2.99 for anything shorter than 40,000 words (and that is still cutting it really close) without flooding with bad reviews about price and length. Cozy mystery fans like frequent releases, and a lot of them, so be prepared for that.


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## Rayven T. Hill (Jul 24, 2013)

I write Cozy Thrillers with a mystery thrown in for good measure.


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## Genre Hoarder (Oct 4, 2014)

I write Cozies, Paranormal Mysteries, and Romantic Suspense. 

Thanks for starting this thread!


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

7seasonsgirl said:


> Thanks for your insight Amanda. I read the Avery Shaw series and a new one which I think is yours, and I know that your books are around 60000 words. I really have to think about all the issues I may encounter. I noticed that frequent publications are the key to keep the books in sight and I plan to release every two months. I don't think I can do it more frequently, I still want to write my romantic comedies and another series I have in mind. Maybe I can start with the first two books at 0.99 and increase the words for the next books that aren't written yet.


My earlier books were shorter as I got my footing, but I've settled at 70,000+ for regular installments for my main name, with almost all recent books coming in at 80,000-90,000 words. I have pen name books at 60,000, but cozy readers seem to be happiest in that 60,000-90,000 window from what I've seen.


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## M.W. Griffith (Oct 13, 2015)

Great thread!
I write crime/mystery procedurals.  One of the things I try to do is treat victims of various cases like real people.  Someone out there loved them.  Someone out there cares.  One of the things that bothers me about a few crime shows on television is how two super cops solve the case between chatting about their love lives, sipping on a latte, and shrugging off the fact that someone was hurt/killed at the scene.  
Not only are the victims families distraught, but so are the investigators.  It's only human!


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## Maia Sepp Ross (May 10, 2013)

I'm writing my first cozy, currently, and I'm also binge-reading The Gaslight Mysteries, if anyone is looking for late 1800's mysteries set in NYC. They're superb.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Love this thread!

I write classic, hard-boiled mysteries and now have six in the Burnside series. They are in the tradition of Raymond Chandler, although I would never be so bold as to put myself at his level ! Chandler, along with Robert B. Parker and Ross MacDonald are my inspirations. They are set in current-day Los Angeles, mostly because that's where I live, and that's the area with which I have the most familiarity. LA is a major character in every book.

My protagonist, Burnside, is very traditional. Wise cracking tough guy, former LAPD officer who was forced to resign. The (admittedly small) twist here is that Burnside was a former college football star at USC, and all of my books have some connection to the world of football. Hence the football-related titles.

I also consider my series traditional, because Burnside does not typically use technology in the way he cracks his cases. Rather, it is just good old-fashioned detective work, with some brawls thrown in to keep it interesting.

Working on Book # 7 now. Am 12,000 words in, the first draft usually hits 50,000 and then magically rises to 60,000+ with re-writes.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

All of my books have mystery elements but I don't classify all of them as mysteries (if that makes sense). Almost all have paranormal elements. I release two main entries in every series a year and add one witch fantasy and five witch shorts to my Wicked Witches of the Midwest series. I do first in series at .99 once I have three books generally. Some people stay on the top of lists by launching at .99 and staying at that price point for weeks, but I generally launch sequels at $3.99 and keep first-in-series books at that price point until I have three books and can advertise the series. I have at least one title launching every month and most of my readers follow more than one series.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

After my cozy and YA trilogy is done, I'm going to work on a PI series featuring a college-age sleuth. It's a bit of a departure for me so I bought Talking About Detective Fiction by PD James on Amazon so I can make sure I do it right. 

Has anyone read it? Or any other suggestions for detective fic?


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

I've noticed some questions in this thread regarding plot development in mysteries. A while ago, I wrote an essay about my 24-point writing process for plot development (which also included some personal issues that motivated me to write).

The nature of mystery writing is obviously very plot-heavy, so maybe this will be helpful to some of you, here is the link:

https://postpatternblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/my-24-point-writing-process/


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## SDaniels (Dec 24, 2015)

Lot's of good stuff in this thread! I'm at work on a paranormal mystery series, and I'm having a lot of fun balancing the expectations of mystery readers with the strange elements of the supernatural. A lot of it has to do with establishing rules and then abiding by them. (Or showing why that rule can be broken.)


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## TommyHill (Dec 21, 2015)

I just had an idea pop up yesterday for a paranormal mystery. I've spent the better part of the last 24 hours jotting ideas down and even delving into the actual manuscript, and I'm excited to see where this goes. The last time I was this excited about writing was when I was getting into the meat of my 2nd book and just couldn't keep the ideas contained any longer. I'm starting to get that same feeling again for this new idea.

The only other things I've written are action-suspense, so this is a bit of a change of pace for me. I'm a little scared to try out a new genre, but at the same time I'm excited to add more to my writing skill.

Also, going from 1st person to 3rd person is becoming a bit of a challenge, but with practice, I'm sure I can get past it.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

TommyHill said:


> Also, going from 1st person to 3rd person is becoming a bit of a challenge, but with practice, I'm sure I can get past it.


That's just what I'm doing too! It seems easier to write in the first person for me, but I have to watch myself, because this is the first time I'm attempting it. It doesn't help that I'm working on 2 books at once and they are both different vp. Oh, the things we do to ourselves!


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## Christopher Kerns (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm close to sending off my first novel to an editor - a techno-thriller about a young hacker pulled into a mysterious internet puzzle to find her missing brother.

I've done a ton of research building out the book, and I love the art of crafting a story within the constraints of reality. From locations (the Morgan Library in NYC, the National Gallery in London) that I can walk around to pick out details, to all the real-world technology I lean on (hacking techniques, codebreaking, drones, etc.) it's been a blast.

Excited to be able to share it with y'all shortly!


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2016)

Ideas are cheap (I have a closet full). Drafts come hard. Ass to chair.


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## belindaf (Jan 27, 2011)

I wrote a loosely paranormal YA mystery (Better Left Buried) and two mysteries with a medical thriller twist. Great to meet others in the genre.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

7seasonsgirl said:


> Well, I study the cozy mysteries since a while now and I try to understand what makes some books disappear from the lists after a few weeks while other series stay for years - at least two years- on the top 100 of the cozy mysteries and I have many questions to answer before publishing.
> My first question would be if it's better to start with KDP Select or go wide. My books are only 35.000 words and I won't really earn a lot by a borrow. But I know from my other books that visibility is the key and I tried wide for a year with luckluster results.
> Does someone have experience about the pertinence to go wide with a cozy mystery? Is it easier to gain audience than with other genres?


My mysteries do well at Kobo (who also promote them on occasion) and sell decently at B&N and Scribd, so the mystery audience outside Amazon exists. On the other hand, writers like Amanda really clean up with their mysteries in KU. So as usual, there is no one right answer.

If I was just starting out and didn't have an established audience outside Amazon, I'd probably launch in KU for one or two terms to give the series a push and then go wide. Though when going wide, remember that it takes a while to gain traction at the other non-Amazon vendors.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

CoryODoole said:


> Ideas are cheap (I have a closet full). Drafts come hard. Ass to chair.


so true!


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

Hey KGGiarratano, I just read the excerpt of "Dead and Breakfast" and nominated it for Scout. Looks like a great story! Is this your last day in Scout? Good Luck!


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm a mystery writer, though not a cozy one. Mine are darker and have a lot of suspense in them, lots of twists and turns. Maybe some would call them thrillers, but I disagree as there's always a strong mystery aspect in my books. I'm curious if people here generally use a detailed outline to write their mystery or if they pantsy their way through them. I always know how my mysteries will end and have a general idea what will go in them, but I never truly outline. I have tried, but it just doesn't work for me. Also---and this might sound rude, but that's not my intention---if a mystery is so simple it can be outlined from the beginning, including all the twist and turns, how complex can it be? I'm imagining the mystery part of the story would be easy to figure out if you can outline it. Feel free to correct me if I'm just assuming here, and if you have a mystery book that was heavily outlined before it was written, tell me about it so I can buy it and see for myself that I'm wrong (that I won't be able to figure out the mystery part quickly, that is. If I can, I would not be very into it, to be honest.).


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

I have a police procedural out, in my sig, that's the first of a planned series. I'm having a bit of trouble getting into it because of all the police shootings and corruption stories in the last six months or so. 

Thinking about a paranormal mystery or urban fantasy that's mystery-heavy. (What's the difference between them?)


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

juliatheswede said:


> I'm a mystery writer, though not a cozy one. Mine are darker and have a lot of suspense in them, lots of twists and turns. Maybe some would call them thrillers, but I disagree as there's always a strong mystery aspect in my books. I'm curious if people here generally use a detailed outline to write their mystery or if they pantsy their way through them. I always know how my mysteries will end and have a general idea what will go in them, but I never truly outline. I have tried, but it just doesn't work for me. Also---and this might sound rude, but that's not my intention---if a mystery is so simple it can be outlined from the beginning, including all the twist and turns, how complex can it be? I'm imagining the mystery part of the story would be easy to figure out if you can outline it. Feel free to correct me if I'm just assuming here, and if you have a mystery book that was heavily outlined before it was written, tell me about it so I can buy it and see for myself that I'm wrong (that I won't be able to figure out the mystery part quickly, that is. If I can, I would not be very into it, to be honest.).


Personally I always start with an outline, but in the writing process I find gems of discovery that usually make me go off script and readjust he outline to fit the twists i just had to write in the moment.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

I have two series. The 16-strong (nearly 17) Rafferty & Llewellyn, for which I use the tag A Little Laughter. A Little Mayhem. A Little MURDER ...

And (so far), the 2-strong Casey & Catt. I haven't got a tag for this, but I suppose I could use Spliffs, Bad Guys and Murder. Or something. Mm. I can see I'll have to work on that!


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

juliatheswede said:


> I always know how my mysteries will end and have a general idea what will go in them, but I never truly outline. I have tried, but it just doesn't work for me.


This is my experience too - I think perhaps I have more of the story in my head to start with than I have on paper, but I often find my characters taking things in a different direction from the one I first thought of. Now that I've been writing about the same main characters for so long, this is one of the hazards.
When I did a live event locally last year, someone from the audience said she thought mystery writers must spend a lot of time plotting and working out the details, clues etc - she was quite disappointed when I said I didn't!


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

CoraBuhlert said:


> My mysteries do well at Kobo (who also promote them on occasion) and sell decently at B&N and Scribd, so the mystery audience outside Amazon exists. On the other hand, writers like Amanda really clean up with their mysteries in KU. So as usual, there is no one right answer.


My second best sales after Amazon UK are through Kobo, quite a lot of them in Canada, where I think perhaps the Scottish background is appealing.
Smashwords have been good at giving me promotion opportunities, which may surprise some people. For instance, they included some of my mystery novels in a promotion at Bouchercon (which I had never heard of before but it's a mystery writers' convention) last year.

ps sorry about posting twice in a row - I wasn't sure about quoting from two other posts at once.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Lucey Phillips said:


> Hey KGGiarratano, I just read the excerpt of "Dead and Breakfast" and nominated it for Scout. Looks like a great story! Is this your last day in Scout? Good Luck!


OMG -- thank you! I appreciate that. My campaign ended yesterday and now I am officially 'in review.' I don't expect to hear anything until next week. I'm excited. Either way -- I'll be releasing a new book soon.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

I must outline, otherwise, it's a mess and I can't progress. 

On another note: It's my goal to attend Bouchercon in 2017.


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## Sarah Chute (Nov 11, 2015)

I'm writing a historical mystery. It takes place in 1923, in England. 
One of my favorite things has been researching how things were back then. It has inspired new passions and has been a really fun adventure! 
(And I'm sooo close to finishing! There's only about 24 hours in my story left before the mystery is wrapped up... *gasp* What will I do?!) 



KGGiarratano said:


> After my cozy and YA trilogy is done, I'm going to work on a PI series featuring a college-age sleuth. It's a bit of a departure for me so I bought Talking About Detective Fiction by PD James on Amazon so I can make sure I do it right.
> 
> Has anyone read it? Or any other suggestions for detective fic?


Thanks for starting this thread! Have you read The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie: A Flavia de Luce Novel, by Alan Bradley, or his other Flavia de Luce Mysteries? While Agatha Christie is my muse, the Flavia de Luce books are some of the most creative, entertaining mysteries that I have read. Flavia is an amatuer sleuth (eleven years old!) but she is really clever and uses her knowledge in chemistry to solve the mysteries. I recommend reading it, if only to be exposed to something that takes on such a creative approach. (For a college-aged sleuth, especially if they are an amateur, this would be a good choice, I think.)


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## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

David Chill said:


> I've noticed some questions in this thread regarding plot development in mysteries. A while ago, I wrote an essay about my 24-point writing process for plot development (which also included some personal issues that motivated me to write).
> 
> The nature of mystery writing is obviously very plot-heavy, so maybe this will be helpful to some of you, here is the link:
> 
> https://postpatternblog.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/my-24-point-writing-process/


Hi David. Great blog post. Do you actually share your 24 points anywhere? I couldn't find it on your blog.


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## Spin52 (Sep 6, 2015)

I have two mystery series which I call traditional despite being informed by CreateSpace that a traditional mystery must have a British detective. Baloney, I say.
My first series features the five staff members of a small research lab who keep stumbling into murder mysteries, and the second has as its MC a seriously snoopy, totally tactless Italian-American widow. Both series have their roots in my own background -- my parents were both scientists and my dad was Italian.
Just to add -- although I still sell more books on Kindle, I have had quite a few sales on Kobo and Nook, too.


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## passerby (Oct 18, 2015)

KGGiarratano said:


> I must outline, otherwise, it's a mess and I can't progress.
> 
> On another note: It's my goal to attend Bouchercon in 2017.


I'd never heard of Bouchercon until someone mentioned it in an earlier post. I googled it, and it looks really interesting. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but when you attend Bouchercon, are you planning on getting a booth and doing book signings? Or are there other promotional opportunities you are planning to take advantage of?


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

sarah chute said:


> Have you read The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie: A Flavia de Luce Novel, by Alan Bradley, or his other Flavia de Luce Mysteries? While Agatha Christie is my muse, the Flavia de Luce books are some of the most creative, entertaining mysteries that I have read. Flavia is an amatuer sleuth (eleven years old!) but she is really clever and uses her knowledge in chemistry to solve the mysteries. I recommend reading it, if only to be exposed to something that takes on such a creative approach. (For a college-aged sleuth, especially if they are an amateur, this would be a good choice, I think.)


I love the Flavia series. She is so precocious, but if she were my child, she would drive me nuts.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

vprelatte said:


> I'd never heard of Bouchercon until someone mentioned it in an earlier post. I googled it, and it looks really interesting. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but when you attend Bouchercon, are you planning on getting a booth and doing book signings? Or are there other promotional opportunities you are planning to take advantage of?


I don't know. It's just a mental plan right now.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

> My second best sales after Amazon UK are through Kobo, quite a lot of them in Canada, where I think perhaps the Scottish background is appealing.


Same here, including that my Helen Shepherd Mysteries (which are also British set) do well in Canada and Australia via Kobo. Though I've also heard from a lot of people like 7seasonsgirl that they have problems getting traction at Kobo. I've no idea Kobo works for some and not for others except for the casual observation that writers who have problems selling at Kobo tend to be American and writers who do well there tend to be not American. So it may have to do something with the fact that Kobo's main customer base is outside the US.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Same here, including that my Helen Shepherd Mysteries (which are also British set) do well in Canada and Australia via Kobo. Though I've also heard from a lot of people like 7seasonsgirl that they have problems getting traction at Kobo. I've no idea Kobo works for some and not for others except for the casual observation that writers who have problems selling at Kobo tend to be American and writers who do well there tend to be not American. So it may have to do something with the fact that Kobo's main customer base is outside the US.


You could be on to something here. Kobo is on the bottom of the list for me. One sale a week. I can't even seem to give my permafree away on the site.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

Spin52 said:


> I have two mystery series which I call traditional despite being informed by CreateSpace that a traditional mystery must have a British detective.


Then they should call it British Detectives, not Traditional Detectives.

I was thinking of categorizing my American hard-boiled detective novel as Traditional. We have our traditions, too.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

I usually use the term 'whodunit'. People these days seem to think of 'cosy/cozy' as the very light and/or funny murder mysteries so that doesn't quite work for the series I'm writing.

The term 'traditional murder mystery' should also work. I don't see why a traditional murder mystery has to have a British detective; it should just mean a murder mystery in _the style of _the murder mysteries of the Golden Age of detective fiction - they weren't all British.


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## angela65 (Oct 8, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> My earlier books were shorter as I got my footing, but I've settled at 70,000+ for regular installments for my main name, with almost all recent books coming in at 80,000-90,000 words. I have pen name books at 60,000, but cozy readers seem to be happiest in that 60,000-90,000 window from what I've seen.


Thanks so much for your contributions to Kboards, Amanda. I'm always terrified you're going to disappear with all your knowledge, like so many others have.

I love your books. I've read quite a few. And I don't know how you find the time to write so much, PLUS dispense advice on Kboards as well as hang out at other online sites. Time management. I wish I was better at it. But again, thank you for hanging out with us!


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## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

David Wisehart said:


> Then they should call it British Detectives, not Traditional Detectives.
> 
> I was thinking of categorizing my American hard-boiled detective novel as Traditional. We have our traditions, too.


True. Isn't Edger Allen Poe (an American) actually credited with creating the detective novel?

I may be off on that, but I thought that was the case (though I'm sure debated.)


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## Spin52 (Sep 6, 2015)

JB Rowley said:


> I usually use the term 'whodunit'. People these days seem to think of 'cosy/cozy' as the very light and/or funny murder mysteries so that doesn't quite work for the series I'm writing.
> 
> The term 'traditional murder mystery' should also work. I don't see why a traditional murder mystery has to have a British detective; it should just mean a murder mystery in _the style of _the murder mysteries of the Golden Age of detective fiction - they weren't all British.


No, they weren't. I grew up reading Rex Stout and Ellery Queen novels, so I was surprised that I had such a struggle to get the British Detectives tag taken off my books. I had picked the category 'traditional mystery' when I published the paperbacks, never thinking that implied 'British', and was amazed when a CS person told me that 'readers assume a traditional mystery features a British detective'. 
They aren't exactly 'cozy' either; they have a lot of humor in them, but they aren't fluffy. I wish 'whodunit' was a category!


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

As a reader, I think the entire mystery category is messed up. Too often when I undertake a search for a mystery, I end up with a huge number of thrillers to sort through. They are NOT the same thing. And I agree on the desire for a whodunit category. I'd love that.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Shawn Kobb said:


> Hi David. Great blog post. Do you actually share your 24 points anywhere? I couldn't find it on your blog.


Thanks Shawn. The 24 points are unique to each story. What this type of structure does is allow for creating a road map. The main plot points are at 6, 12 and 18, when something critical happens to move the story into another direction (someone gets murdered, shot at, something crucial is revealed). Note that this type of structure is very common in screenwriting, where plotting often needs to be tight.

The problem I always encountered was in the area of plot structure; this gave me some discipline. Realistically, there is no standard formula as to what actually goes into each of the 24 points. The way I came up with this is by reading "traditional" mystery writers (my version of traditional anyway: Chandler, Hammett, Parker, Crais, Lehane), and laying out the stories as to when an "event" happened. It struck me there were usually about 24 of these which occurred over the course of the story.

The general premise here is you can break down almost every good story into these 24 events. For me, that helped tremendously, because when I plot out a mystery, keeping it within this 24 point guideline creates a structure I can work with.

The downside to this type of structure is it can make the story formulaic for those who have read other books in my series. But for me, I can't simply write and follow the characters, as they often lead me down a blind alley from which I have trouble exiting....


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

oakwood said:


> I read in a plot related book the other day something that I feel is accurate:
> 
> Mystery: Who did it
> Thriller: Why was it done


It seems to me you can easily combine those two statements and still have a mystery. A more complex mystery. Maybe that would be a mystery thriller? Is that even a category? Probably not, haha...


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

oakwood said:


> I read in a plot related book the other day something that I feel is accurate:
> 
> Mystery: Who did it
> Thriller: Why was it done


Then what's Columbo?


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## SDaniels (Dec 24, 2015)

jdcore said:


> Then what's Columbo?


I'd still say a Mystery. In Columbo, the audience knows who the killer is, but the narrative is still about is a story about catching the villain, the "Who did it".

Like in most cases, though, genre boundaries can be fluid, so someone else's definition may vary.


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## juliatheswede (Mar 26, 2014)

SDaniels said:


> I'd still say a Mystery. In Columbo, the audience knows who the killer is, but the narrative is still about is a story about catching the villain, the "Who did it".


This makes no sense. If we already know who the killer is, how can it be a mystery It sounds like a straight-forward thriller to me.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I write humorous mysteries with amateur sleuths. I've got two series going: 1) The Letty Whittaker 12-Step Mysteries and 2) The Blood Visions Paranormal Mysteries. Not really cozies, since there is a level of PG13 cussing. The first book in the paranormal series won a Scout contract.  
When I first started I aimed for 80K words per book but for my last two have shifted down to 60K so I can get more books out sooner. Just launched a new one yesterday. Yay!


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## Mxz (Jan 17, 2015)

I write paranormal mysteries.  One series I'm starting is a cozy mystery.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

I think Columbo is a mystery as to "How will he solve it." But it's not a Whodunnit. So if the definition of mystery is "Who did it?" Columbo wouldn't fit. As for a thriller, it's not really that either, because when people think of thriller they generally think of peril for the hero or the hero's loved ones or country, but Columbo doesn't really fit that. 

To me, Columbo is a mystery because there's a puzzle - ie how will the killer be exposed. But most thrillers have a similar puzzle. For example, Dan Brown's books are thrillers full of puzzles. So are they not therefore also mysteries? 

And there are other genres that can also be thrillers. The Martian is sci-fi and thriller. But it's not generally considered mystery even though there are a lot of "puzzles" the hero has to solve. 

Yup, trying to pidgeonhole genre definitions is a real conundrum - a mystery if you will.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Spin52 said:


> I wish 'whodunit' was a category!


Me, too. Rather odd that it isn't, really.

Good luck with your book.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Columbo is a 'howcatchem' or 'inverted detective story', apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbo


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## CelinaGrace (Nov 20, 2013)

Great thread - thank you, OP, and all the contributors.

I've just finished the first in a new series of historical mysteries, set in the 1930s, with the sleuths being two servant girls, a kitchen maid and a lady's maid. Great fun to write and I find the research fascinating. The problem I ran into is that servants don't have ample amounts of time to investigate mysteries - they're too busy working! So it was a bit of a struggle between a realistic portrayal of their lifestyle and in moving the plot along.

My breadwinning series is the Kate Redman Mysteries which could be classified as police procedural crossed with semi-cosy.


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

Shawn Kobb said:


> True. Isn't Edger Allen Poe (an American) actually credited with creating the detective novel?
> 
> I may be off on that, but I thought that was the case (though I'm sure debated.)


You're correct. Edgar Allan Poe is credited with inventing the Western detective genre with "Murders in the Rue Morgue" and "The Murder of Marie Roget" (although the Chinese have a separate tradition of mystery stories dating back much longer--Van Gulick turned the stories of Judge Dee into wonderful Western-style novels). Wilkie Collins continued the Western tradition with THE MOONSTONE, and the French author Gaboriau wrote some of my favorite mysteries of all time. This is the foundation upon which Conan Doyle based his work.

I'm very interested in your noir. I am writing noir mysteries right now. I've done quite a bit of research into the definitions of noir and hard-boiled, and while a lot has been written and discussed on the subject, it really boils down to "Chandler and Hammett." The genre 'noir' refers to the film noir movies that Chandler worked on and those made of both of their novels--defined by film techniques more than fiction. The genre 'hard-boiled' refers to Hammett's emotionless operative and the fact that both his and Chandler's detectives tend to get beat up a lot. Some argue that noir is about the lower classes--as opposed to Agatha Christie's canonical upper-class mysteries, with which Chandler took great exception--but Chandler himself used the upper-classes all the time. (My favorite character is the fabulous evil dowager of The High Window.)

Coincidentally, I recognize your book cover for CITY OF GHOSTS as one that I picked out as an example I liked while researching noir covers last autumn. Nice!


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## cwashburn (May 20, 2013)

My Jaswinder Mystery series is set in my hometown.  Does anyone else like to set their books where they live/have lived?


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## KingSweden (Dec 16, 2013)

David Chill said:


> Love this thread!
> 
> I write classic, hard-boiled mysteries and now have six in the Burnside series. They are in the tradition of Raymond Chandler, although I would never be so bold as to put myself at his level ! Chandler, along with Robert B. Parker and Ross MacDonald are my inspirations. They are set in current-day Los Angeles, mostly because that's where I live, and that's the area with which I have the most familiarity. LA is a major character in every book.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to let you know that I bought the first book in this series because of this entry. I'm excited to read it.


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## KingSweden (Dec 16, 2013)

I just finished my first mystery, though it's more in the procedural realm than a "cozy," particularly since it's brutally violent, dark and has tons of swear words. I've had a lot of mysteries that failed to get off the launching pad because I came up with an awesome hook on who the victim is and who the POV character is and then... not coming up with the killer or motivation to match the crime. This is obviously not an efficient way to write mysteries, hence why I've shied away from them.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

Mine are also set in my backyard.


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## KingSweden (Dec 16, 2013)

cwashburn said:


> My Jaswinder Mystery series is set in my hometown. Does anyone else like to set their books where they live/have lived?


Absolutely. Makes it easier to write/makes it less research-intensive.


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## Spin52 (Sep 6, 2015)

KingSweden said:


> Absolutely. Makes it easier to write/makes it less research-intensive.


Both my series are set in Seattle, my home town. I've lived in the UK for more than 30 years, however, which made the 'traditional = British' remark even more exasperating. I still don't feel confident enough to set a series in the UK, although readers have suggested that. I go back to Seattle a lot, which lets me keep up with local events.


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## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

My mysteries in Vienna really started with the setting. Since I moved here I knew I needed to write about it so I really formed stories around the setting. It's so full of history and culture that I could have gone many different directions, but mysteries just lend themselves to the setting.

For Collection I knew I wanted an urban setting so I went with DC. It's also a place with a lot to work with, but also one I knew much better than the traditional locations of NYC, LA, or Chicago.

I'm brainstorming a cozy series now and I'm thinking of using a part of the small town I grew up in. By focusing on the core of my little home town, I'll already have an easy map in my head of the locations and setting.


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## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

Victoria Mixon said:


> I'm very interested in your noir. I am writing noir mysteries right now. I've done quite a bit of research into the definitions of noir and hard-boiled, and while a lot has been written and discussed on the subject, it really boils down to "Chandler and Hammett." The genre 'noir' refers to the film noir movies that Chandler worked on and those made of both of their novels--defined by film techniques more than fiction. The genre 'hard-boiled' refers to Hammett's emotionless operative and the fact that both his and Chandler's detectives tend to get beat up a lot. Some argue that noir is about the lower classes--as opposed to Agatha Christie's canonical upper-class mysteries, with which Chandler took great exception--but Chandler himself used the upper-classes all the time. (My favorite character is the fabulous evil dowager of The High Window.)
> 
> Coincidentally, I recognize your book cover for CITY OF GHOSTS as one that I picked out as an example I liked while researching noir covers last autumn. Nice!


My book COLLECTION borrows heavily from The Maltese Falcon and I've never denied that. Originally, I wanted to see if I could do my own sort of sci-fi spin on the book. I quickly veered away from the plot and made it my own, but it was a fun experiment and I'd love to write more books with the character of Rocket Malone, but so far the sales aren't that great. One of my favorite reader emails to date was from a guy who said I ripped of The Maltese Falcon and I should place a disclaimer in my book admitting as much. Then in his last sentence he asked when the next book was coming out.


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

I started outlining a second cozy mystery series (even though I've just started writing the first lol) and it's going to be set in a fictionalized version of my home town. I think it'll be fun. All my other books are set in fictional places or places I've at least visited.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

oakwood said:


> I read in a plot related book the other day something that I feel is accurate:
> 
> Mystery: Who did it
> Thriller: Why was it done


I would really disagree with that. There's a lot more to the distinction than that.

You basically have three broader genres that are similar but fundamentally different in how they handle the protagonist-antagonist relationship, the tone or style of the story, and scale.

Suspense: the protagonist is weaker than the antagonist. Almost a horror tone in that you're going for emotional evocation of fear and dread. Mostly focuses on a potential victim of a crime and is isolated or restricted to one or a few locations.

Mystery: the protagonist is either weaker or stronger than the antagonist. Puzzles and clues and trying to deduce who or how the crime was done. Mostly focuses on the detective trying to solve the crime or bring the killer to justice through pursuit, confession, or vigilante justice. Generally covers a city, but can pop to another nearby town to investigate.

Thriller: the protagonist is generally stronger than the antagonist. Pure action-adventure. Mostly focuses on the hero going around kicking ass and taking names. Might start off in a particular city, generally New York, DC, or LA. But quickly goes international.


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

Shawn Kobb said:


> One of my favorite reader emails to date was from a guy who said I ripped of The Maltese Falcon and I should place a disclaimer in my book admitting as much. Then in his last sentence he asked when the next book was coming out.


  This is great, Shawn. Yes, we all use the same techniques and even plot twists. There are only so many of them. It's how uniquely we handle them that distinguishes us from each other.


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

cwashburn said:


> My Jaswinder Mystery series is set in my hometown. Does anyone else like to set their books where they live/have lived?


Oh, yes. I think it's really important to know your setting intimately. The authentic details are what give your voice authority. That's why Chandler's stories still live--he actually cited street names and addresses, so you feel as though you're really in LA, and not just any LA, but the LA of his specific era.

My noir mysteries are set in the small town where I've lived for 15 years, layered with subcultural elements from a very similar small town where I lived as a young adult.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

I think of whodunits as just one category in the mystery genre. Cozies are whodunits, noir is usually a whodunit, police procedurals, ditto. Columbo, to my mind, is a mystery of the howdunit sort. Thrillers, according to one account I read, is a race against time to prevent something awful from happening. I don't know how accurate the definition is. I don't write them. I do read them. But as I said, I prefer reading whodunits because that's what I write.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

cwashburn said:


> My Jaswinder Mystery series is set in my hometown. Does anyone else like to set their books where they live/have lived?


My series Citrus Beach Mysteries is set in a fictional town, based on my home town. Anyone who lives here could easily find similar places in the book and give them the name of the place it's based on. I've had readers say they love to try and figure out what fictional locations match real locations.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

Victoria LK said:


> My series Citrus Beach Mysteries is set in a fictional town, based on my home town. Anyone who lives here could easily find similar places in the book and give them the name of the place it's based on. I've had readers say they love to try and figure out what fictional locations match real locations.


This is an interesting approach.

I'm currently plotting out a traditional/cosy mystery series and I want to use my own town. BUT there is another author who has published a good half dozen excellent police procedurals based in this town. She's got such a great voice and has done such a great job that I am hesitating to just go ahead and plunk my books in the same setting. Would it be weird to have two authors using the same town in the same time period for similar genre books? Maybe I'd be better off using all the settings but coming up with an alternate name for the town and landmarks.

Or since it's a cozy, I could just restrict it to a suburb of the town - there's a police station, a supermarket, a grocer, a cafe, a couple of schools, a pet-shop all in the suburb I'm thinking of.

Or am I overthinking it?


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

TheLemontree said:


> This is an interesting approach.
> 
> I'm currently plotting out a traditional/cosy mystery series and I want to use my own town. BUT there is another author who has published a good half dozen excellent police procedurals based in this town. She's got such a great voice and has done such a great job that I am hesitating to just go ahead and plunk my books in the same setting. Would it be weird to have two authors using the same town in the same time period for similar genre books? Maybe I'd be better off using all the settings but coming up with an alternate name for the town and landmarks.
> 
> ...


I think you should write whatever you want  As long as the stories are original, you're allowed to set your mysteries where you please. Are you worried people will think you're copying the other author? Because already prcedurals and cozies have a lot of differences and might not even attract the same readers.

Now, if the other author has a 45-year-old female protagonist with a black poodle named Midnight and YOUR stories have a 45-year-old female protagonist with a black poodle named Midnight .... that could be an issue


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

Lucey Phillips said:


> I think you should write whatever you want  As long as the stories are original, you're allowed to set your mysteries where you please. Are you worried people will think you're copying the other author? Because already prcedurals and cozies have a lot of differences and might not even attract the same readers.
> 
> Now, if the other author has a 45-year-old female protagonist with a black poodle named Midnight and YOUR stories have a 45-year-old female protagonist with a black poodle named Midnight .... that could be an issue


 You're right. There's not a lot of overlap in the genres, and her style is darker and more realistic than mine.

I _was_ overthinking it


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Dusty Kent (my protagonist) started off investigating a cold-case murder in her hometown and will be travelling all over Australia to hunt down murderers who think they've gotten away with it. She has just wrapped up an intriguing case in Byron Bay and looks like heading to Darwin for the next one.  I have to travel all over Australia to visit/revisit those same places that Dusty goes to. Such is an author's lot.  

Great thread, by the way.


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

KGGiarratano said:


> I bought Talking About Detective Fiction by PD James on Amazon so I can make sure I do it right.
> 
> Has anyone read it? Or any other suggestions for detective fic?


Yes, I've read it. It's much like other works on the mystery genre. I recommend Raymond Chandler's canonical essay, "The Simple Art of Murder," along with his other collected essays and letters, and the collected essays, _Writing Mysteries_, edited by Sue Grafton.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

My Helen Shepherd Mysteries are set in London (and so I can legitimately call them traditional mysteries according to Amazon, even though I don't like the distinction). I chose London because it is big and diverse enough that I can find pretty much any setting or feature I need within its boundaries. Need a country house, a hipster neighbourhood in the throes of gentrification, a park/woodland area, an upper middle class suburb, a derelict factory or warehouse, an ethnic neighbourhood, etc...? It's all right there. Besides, I've spent six months living in London as a student, so I know the city well enough to write about it and research settings I'm not familiar with.

Now Germany has something of a tradition of regional mysteries and so I could theoretically set a mystery in my hometown. However, there already are several mysteries set in my hometown and home region (I know some of the writers personally), plus I would have to write in German, because the market for regional mysteries set in North Germany just isn't there in the English speaking world.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

cwashburn said:


> My Jaswinder Mystery series is set in my hometown. Does anyone else like to set their books where they live/have lived?


When I did my short story for The Dame Did It, I knew I wanted to write about a female PI in modern-day Japan. But Kagoshima (where I live) isn't exactly a hotbed of crime. So I chose Osaka, a city I've been to but have never lived in large part because I got the idea for the initial story while watching a documentary about host clubs in Osaka. When I do the series, I'm still debating whether or not to keep it in Osaka or move it to Fukuoka, which also has a criminal element and I'm a bit more familiar with.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

I decided when I started writing mysteries that I'd create a fictionalised town (libel worries). But I hand-drew a map, and have pubs, a market, and everything that a large market town would have, like a ruined priory, almshouses, nice houses and not so nice houses. The works!


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

hardnutt said:


> I decided when I started writing mysteries that I'd create a fictionalised town (libel worries). But I hand-drew a map, and have pubs, a market, and everything that a large market town would have, like a ruined priory, almshouses, nice houses and not so nice houses. The works!


I've done something a bit like that - I know exactly where my fictional small town is (on the coast of Fife, in the east of Scotland) and I often refer to the real towns round about, but I didn't want to use a real one. This decision has helped at times when I've needed to add new features to the place for the sake of the plot, and there is also the libel issue when it comes to people like the local minister and the President of the bowling club, known as El Presidente.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

KingSweden said:


> Just wanted to let you know that I bought the first book in this series because of this entry. I'm excited to read it.


Thank you Henrik -- I hope you enjoy it!


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

hardnutt said:


> I decided when I started writing mysteries that I'd create a fictionalised town (libel worries). But I hand-drew a map, and have pubs, a market, and everything that a large market town would have, like a ruined priory, almshouses, nice houses and not so nice houses. The works!


Yep, I do the same thing. I have hand drawn map for my factionalized town, but I used really places when my protagonist travel, say to the airport or the mall. I based it loosely on the town I went to college.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

TheLemontree said:


> I'm currently plotting out a traditional/cosy mystery series and I want to use my own town. BUT there is another author who has published a good half dozen excellent police procedurals based in this town. She's got such a great voice and has done such a great job that I am hesitating to just go ahead and plunk my books in the same setting. Would it be weird to have two authors using the same town in the same time period for similar genre books? Maybe I'd be better off using all the settings but coming up with an alternate name for the town and landmarks.


I think this may depend upon being able to portray your town from a different perspective. Two people living in the same place can have wildly divergent views of this locale, and from that you can create varying experiences. The police chief and the beat cop may just see the same thing and process it very differently.

I write about Los Angeles, and the city is one of my major characters. Fortunately it is large and diverse, so the LA I write about is very different from the LA depicted by Robert Crais, Michael Connelly, and thousands of other writers.

I think it is very difficult, albeit not impossible, to provide a legitimate view of a city in which you haven't spent a lot of time. Years ago, Robert B. Parker was asked to finish a Raymond Chandler novel that had not been completed; it was called "Poodle Springs." Putting aside all of the other difficulties of that kind of endeavor, Parker was also required to set the story in Palm Springs. He said that he drove out there one day for lunch, walked around a bit, and that was the sum total of his experience being in Palm Springs. And it really showed, because he failed to capture the essence of the town, it could have been set almost anywhere, and it certainly couldn't compare to his descriptions of Boston, which became a major part of the Spenser series.

Finally, here is an interesting essay from a few months ago, that tries to address this issue.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1004-crosley-writing-la-from-ny-20151004-story.html


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Victoria Mixon said:


> Yes, I've read it. It's much like other works on the mystery genre. I recommend Raymond Chandler's canonical essay, "The Simple Art of Murder," along with his other collected essays and letters, and the collected essays, _Writing Mysteries_, edited by Sue Grafton.


Thanks! And the book is in KU -- even better.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

cecilia_writer said:


> I've done something a bit like that - I know exactly where my fictional small town is (on the coast of Fife, in the east of Scotland) and I often refer to the real towns round about, but I didn't want to use a real one. This decision has helped at times when I've needed to add new features to the place for the sake of the plot, and there is also the libel issue when it comes to people like the local minister and the President of the bowling club, known as El Presidente.


I find that, too. It's very handy to just invent.


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## Carolyn J. Rose Mystery Writer (Aug 10, 2010)

I fictionalized a small city in SW Washington for the No Substitute for _____ cozy series. Folks who live around Vancouver will "recognize" places and issues, but the names have been changed to protect the innocent - mostly me. I'm now finishing up book 6 in the series and envision several more. I've also written a 3-book darker series set in the Catskills where I grew up. Those let me deal with darker themes - not that murder isn't dark, but in a cozy there's less violence and it's certainly less graphic.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

cecilia_writer said:


> I've done something a bit like that - I know exactly where my fictional small town is (on the coast of Fife, in the east of Scotland) and I often refer to the real towns round about, but I didn't want to use a real one. This decision has helped at times when I've needed to add new features to the place for the sake of the plot, and there is also the libel issue when it comes to people like the local minister and the President of the bowling club, known as El Presidente.


Yes, I use a fictionalised town for the place of the murder but the area it is set in is real so I can refer to other places by their actual names. I chose to do that partly because small towns can be sensitive about authors using their town for the scene of a murder and also because it gives me freedom to make the town the way I want it. If I were setting a murder mystery in a large place such as Melbourne or Sydney, I'd just use a fictionalised suburb and keep the rest of the city as it actually is.

A few years ago a French crime writer got into hot water for using a Paris landmark as the setting for her book: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/17/lalie-walker-marche-saint-pierre


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

hardnutt said:


> I find that, too. It's very handy to just invent.


Hey, you! I recognize that face. How are things going, Geraldine?


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Victoria Mixon said:


> Hey, you! I recognize that face. How are things going, Geraldine?


Hi Victoria,

Things are going fine, thanks. How are they going with you?


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

hardnutt said:


> Hi Victoria,
> 
> Things are going fine, thanks. How are they going with you?


Good! Another year in fiction.


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm interested in the variety of mystery subgenres represented here. I've seen the discussion of traditional/British along with a lot of cozy, some romance, and some noir. 

What else are you writing?


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## Sarah Chute (Nov 11, 2015)

I think I'd call mine a traditional (as well as historical) mystery.

My main character would prefer a cozy, though, I think. Sorry, George... I gotta do what I gotta do! 

If you guys agree that this sounds traditional (rather than cozy?), or not, I'd love to hear! I've been wondering this for a while:


While there are detectives involved in the story and it takes place in Britain, the focus is on the sleuthing performed by my MC and his two friends, which I guess is like a cozy. 
One of them is a reporter, though, and he is pretty experienced with digging-for-clues and uses this knowledge to help solve the mystery. (He often out-performs the detectives!)
Someone poisons a drink with the intent to kill, but no one actually dies. (What can I say-- I love my characters too much! ) There is a fall and the poisoning is serious, and a coma is the result of some complications. Suicide is heavily considered for motive, and my MC (as well as others) have lost some close relatives, which is the source of some of grief throughout the story.
My main 4 characters are really good friends. There's some humor and love and longing. My MC wants simply to be happy-- to return to his country house (he's in the city right now), to eventually get married... cozy things, perhaps, but he does not get those things during the mystery. That is what drives him to solve it. 

That sounds traditional, right? I know these subgenres can be flexible and there is no specific rule for these categories, but if someone has their own opinion about it, I'd love to know.



Victoria Mixon said:


> What else are you writing?


This is my first draft of my first novel, so I haven't been writing anything else. I used to write little bits of poetry and I started on an adventure epic but it was based on an imaginary game and was far too expansive of a world/no plot-- better played out in the woods than penned down.


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## R.V. Doon (Apr 1, 2013)

Good thread! I'm loving some of the shared links. I write cozy comfort mysteries. How's that for a new term?


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

Sarah Chute said:


> I think I'd call mine a traditional (as well as historical) mystery.
> 
> My main character would prefer a cozy, though, I think. Sorry, George... I gotta do what I gotta do!
> 
> ...


Amateur sleuth is common in cozy mysteries--Miss Marple is probably the best example. And there's no law that says someone HAS to die--the trick is for it to matter as much as possible to the reader, and death has been found to be the best technique. Humor and love and longing also sound like cozy mysteries--many canonical 'traditional' mysteries are dark. (Although I certainly agree with everyone wondering where anybody got the idea that only British mysteries are traditional.)

So I'd agree with George. This sounds to me like a cozy.


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## Seshenet (May 20, 2015)

I just saw this thread. I haven't published yet -- editing book 1 and writing book 2. My plots are mysteries involving homicides and archaeology on a planet settled by humans, and are set in the 49th century. Nothing weird -- you can relate to the characters. It's more speculative than science fiction in that the society is somewhat different than what we have today (as in a major element we take for granted no longer exists). I love to read books with multiple genres so that's what I write.

I love reading mysteries in general and wish there were more mysteries with sci-fi/speculative and archaeological elements although I love nothing better than to curl up with a British mystery (I read U.S., Canadian and Scandinavian too).


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

Seshenet said:


> I love reading mysteries in general and wish there were more mysteries with sci-fi/speculative and archaeological elements.


My friend, archaeologist M. Terry Green, writes sci-fi/speculative fiction. When I read her first techno-shaman novel, Shaman, Healer, Heretic, I said, "It's a mystery!" She said, "Is that what it is?" and I said, "Absolutely." Now she has over 300 reviews, 4.5 stars, and her reviewers are saying it: "A mystery of another nature--a spirit world mystery." You can check her work out here: http://www.amazon.com/Shaman-Healer-Heretic-Thriller-Techno-Shaman-ebook/dp/B004KAAUUG


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

They're already talking about this over on the Scout thread, but I thought it deserved a mention here too ... Kimberly G. Giarratano's mystery "Dead and Breakfast" was accepted for publication by Kindle Press via the Scout program! Congrats! I'm looking forward to reading it!


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

Victoria Mixon said:


> I'm interested in the variety of mystery subgenres represented here. I've seen the discussion of traditional/British along with a lot of cozy, some romance, and some noir.
> 
> What else are you writing?


I have a 'second' series which I've categorised under historical mystery, although they don't entirely fit there, having quite a lot of thriller elements and not so much mystery. They're set in the 1950s. I also occasionally write shorter things set in Edwardian times, and I would really like to plunge into a genuine historical novel some day!


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## Seshenet (May 20, 2015)

Victoria Mixon said:


> My friend, archaeologist M. Terry Green, writes sci-fi/speculative fiction. When I read her first techno-shaman novel, Shaman, Healer, Heretic, I said, "It's a mystery!" She said, "Is that what it is?" and I said, "Absolutely." Now she has over 300 reviews, 4.5 stars, and her reviewers are saying it: "A mystery of another nature--a spirit world mystery." You can check her work out here: http://www.amazon.com/Shaman-Healer-Heretic-Thriller-Techno-Shaman-ebook/dp/B004KAAUUG


Thanks, Victoria! I'll check it out.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Lucey Phillips said:


> They're already talking about this over on the Scout thread, but I thought it deserved a mention here too ... Kimberly G. Giarratano's mystery "Dead and Breakfast" was accepted for publication by Kindle Press via the Scout program! Congrats! I'm looking forward to reading it!


Oh my goodness! Thank you for the acknowledgement!


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Speaking of awesome mysteries, is anyone watching Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries on Netflix? It's amazing and yes it is based on a book series, but I've only watched the TV show. Set in 1928 Australia, Miss Fisher is a fashionable heiress who establishes herself as a detective. It's addicting to watch.


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## Sarah Chute (Nov 11, 2015)

KGGiarratano said:


> Speaking of awesome mysteries, is anyone watching Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries on Netflix? It's amazing and yes it is based on a book series, but I've only watched the TV show. Set in 1928 Australia, Miss Fisher is a fashionable heiress who establishes herself as a detective. It's addicting to watch.


I watched the first one a while ago... I thought it was well-made, too. I liked the premise of it, but I'll need to watch a few more episodes before I'm hooked, though.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

KGGiarratano said:


> Speaking of awesome mysteries, is anyone watching Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries on Netflix? It's amazing and yes it is based on a book series, but I've only watched the TV show. Set in 1928 Australia, Miss Fisher is a fashionable heiress who establishes herself as a detective. It's addicting to watch.


Are these based on the Phryne Fisher series, by Kerry Greenwood? They're a fantastic series of novels -- one of my favourites.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

TheLemontree said:


> Are these based on the Phryne Fisher series, by Kerry Greenwood? They're a fantastic series of novels -- one of my favourites.


Yes, they are! I only found out about the series because I was browsing Netflix.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

Sarah Chute said:


> I watched the first one a while ago... I thought it was well-made, too. I liked the premise of it, but I'll need to watch a few more episodes before I'm hooked, though.


 These are great! Anxiously waiting for the next season to be released. I use acorn TV- shows are all British, and there area some great mystery series to watch. Love the Murdock Mysteries too. Of course I should be writing instead of watching these shows, but I call it research to justify my actions, lol


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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

I adore the Miss Fisher Mysteries and the fabulous clothes worn by Essie Davies. The books are better, though, much more detail and humour in them than comes through in the TV series.

I also enjoy the Murdoch Mysteries - though they've strayed very far from the original six books.


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## Lucey Phillips (Aug 31, 2015)

7seasonsgirl said:


> I was browsing the cozy mysteries category today hoping to find a new book and I saw that in the top 100 Free cozy books there were at least three books that were stepbrother romance, with covers with bare chest men. I gave up and I don't think I'll check again, I'll limit myself to the New releases or Also boughts.
> Trying to find a book browsing by categpry is impossible. I had this problem for years with my romantic comedies where more than half of the top 100 paid and free books aren't romantic comedies, but at least cozy mysteries was a rather well done category. If now we can put our books anywhere I don't see the utility of categoories.
> It's not the genre that bothers me, all genres have their readers, but I would love for once to be able to browse a category and find what I'm looking for. Also, I think I will give up on making the first book free. The free category in cozies is really messed up lately. Better price it 0.99 and try to advertise. At least the paid category isn't messed up until now. I wonder if Amazon gave up on checking the free categories.


That's discouraging. One reason I'm choosing to focus on cozy now, as opposed to other genres I would also enjoy writing, it that it's so narrow and well-defined. I want my books and their readers to be able to find each other easily. I agree with you on the categories thing ... nothing wrong with erotica, but what's the point of having categories if they're pretty much meaningless? I wish Amazon would take a closer look at this.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Victoria LK said:


> These are great! Anxiously waiting for the next season to be released. I use acorn TV- shows are all British, and there area some great mystery series to watch. Love the Murdock Mysteries too. Of course I should be writing instead of watching these shows, but I call it research to justify my actions, lol


All British_ Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries_ is Australian (Australian production, actors, setting etc) from books by an Australian author.


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

JB Rowley said:


> All British_ Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries_ is Australian (Australian production, actors, setting etc) from books by an Australian author.


I stand corrected- you are absolutely right-but their ad says...
"Acorn TV streams full episodes of the best British mystery, drama, comedy and documentary TV shows"


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Victoria LK said:


> I stand corrected- you are absolutely right-but their ad says...
> "Acorn TV streams full episodes of the best British mystery, drama, comedy and documentary TV shows"


False advertising on their part!


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

KGGiarratano said:


> Speaking of awesome mysteries, is anyone watching Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries on Netflix? It's amazing and yes it is based on a book series, but I've only watched the TV show. Set in 1928 Australia, Miss Fisher is a fashionable heiress who establishes herself as a detective. It's addicting to watch.


I've seen a few of these and thought they were really well done. For some reason it dropped off my radar. Still need to catch up on Broadchurch for that matter.


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## Denkeeper Lyn (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm a kind of a fan of Miss Fisher's mysteries, too. Love the fashion. Love the maid and the constable. Someone needs to point out that Miss Fisher is NOT someone you want to watch when kids are in the room. I've seen all the ones up till the episode...no, that would spoil it for someone.

Just make sure the kids are safely tucked into their beds or locked in their schoolrooms before you let Miss Fisher onto your big screen. Then enjoy the wigs and fashions. It's great fun.


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## A.C Louis (Sep 28, 2015)

Now that there's plenty of mystery genre folks here, I'm looking for something to read. My Kindle ran our of paper yesterday.  Can anyone recommend a good mystery book?


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## Sarah Chute (Nov 11, 2015)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Still need to catch up on Broadchurch for that matter.


Broadchurch was amazing... Season One especially, but both were incredible! (Speaking of TV mysteries, did anyone see The Bletchley Circle? It was extremely well done. Highly recommend, though I wouldn't watch it alone-- dark subject matter sometimes and the final episode of season 1 was suspenseful and creepy. But it was so intriguing. It's a miniseries, and only two seasons.)



A.C Louis said:


> Now that there's plenty of mystery genre folks here, I'm looking for something to read. My Kindle ran our of paper yesterday.  Can anyone recommend a good mystery book?


Historical Mystery person here. 
If you're a fan of Jane Austen... I'm currently reading Jane and the Twelve Days of Christmas (Being a Jane Austen Mystery Book 12) which is based in Jane Austen's perspective and quite intriguing. It takes place during Christmas holidays but it isn't really Christmasy-- I was worried the yuletide theme might be sort of annoying to read now that the holidays are over but it really only serves to set the piece. I like the author so far, though, so it might be worth checking out her other books, too, if you were interested.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

A.C Louis said:


> Now that there's plenty of mystery genre folks here, I'm looking for something to read. My Kindle ran our of paper yesterday.  Can anyone recommend a good mystery book?


↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

David Wisehart said:


> Erle Stanley Gardner (creator of Perry Mason) devised a mystery plotting system that is detailed in the appendices of Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.
> 
> The key to Gardner's method is plotting the villain's story first.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post. I bought that book today and have been devouring it. What an information packed crash course on the work of writing! 
I'm using the highlight function on my kindle for the first time ever.

Sent from my GT-S7390 using Tapatalk


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

I enjoyed reading every reply in this thread! I love mysteries and have wanted to try writing in that genre, but have always been afraid I wouldn't be able to keep the events and characters on the right track. 

I like the Miss Fisher Mysteries, Agatha Christie and others along that line—no knitting, quilting, baking and such as that—nothing wrong with it, just not my interest. After reading the comments, I think I may work up the courage to give mystery writing a try. I already have a character that's been plaguing me for some time—she reminds me of Agatha Troy, a side character in the Inspector Alleyn series—may have misspelled his name?


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Romantic mysteries: can anyone recommend one? How are they different from a mystery with a romantic subplot?


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

KGGiarratano said:


> Romantic mysteries: can anyone recommend one? How are they different from a mystery with a romantic subplot?


I'm glad you asked this question-I have wondered that, too. I supposed it to be the same.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

There's also romantic suspense. Maybe we should make up our own categories and submit them to Amazon.

I wrote one in four parts.

Part I mystery
Part II mystery
Part III mostly romance
Part IV WW II spy

Anyone want to categorize that?  My current project is a spinoff from a romance series. It's about a 50-50 mixture of romance and mystery.

I'm always reluctant to put this kind of thing in the mystery category. Pure mystery they're not.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm gonna venture that a romantic mystery is a romance with a mystery subplot. A mystery with a romance has romance as the subplot.


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

Hmm, sounds good to me!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

7seasonsgirl said:


> These are two series that I consider romantic mysteries.
> http://amzn.com/B0172CKFPI
> http://amzn.com/B007SYX1KC
> The romance is as important as the mystery and although the mystery is resolved the romantic story continues. The romance is a little and sometimes a lot more present than in a cozy and not only as a sentiment. These two series can still work as a cozy but the romance is really present.
> There are some other series like this one http://amzn.com/B0053HWAWQ that I also think is a romantic mystery but the romance is a lot more steamy and it could never work as a cozy.


Good grief, talk about cramming your title with keywords. But I'll have to remember all those keywords so I can use them in my blurb.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Mare said:


> I enjoyed reading every reply in this thread! I love mysteries and have wanted to try writing in that genre, but have always been afraid I wouldn't be able to keep the events and characters on the right track.
> 
> I like the Miss Fisher Mysteries, Agatha Christie and others along that line--no knitting, quilting, baking and such as that--nothing wrong with it, just not my interest. After reading the comments, I think I may work up the courage to give mystery writing a try. I already have a character that's been plaguing me for some time--she reminds me of Agatha Troy, a side character in the Inspector Alleyn series--may have misspelled his name?


Correct spelling. The series is based on the novels written by profilic and highly respected New Zealand writer Ngaio Marsh.


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

JB Rowley said:


> Correct spelling. The series is based on the novels written by profilic and highly respected New Zealand writer Ngaio Marsh.


Thanks for that info, JB. I wasn't aware of who the author was, and I like that series, was so happy to discover it.


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## Victoria Mixon (Jan 13, 2016)

Mare said:


> Thanks for that info, JB. I wasn't aware of who the author was, and I like that series, was so happy to discover it.


I love Ngiao Marsh! She is my favorite of the 4 Grand Dames of British Mystery: Christie, Marsh, Margery Allingham, and Dorothy L. Sayers.

I have a huge collection of mysteries up to about the 1950s. My office is full of them. I've cleaned out almost every second-hand bookstore on the American West Coast--and I can never get enough of Powell's Books in Portland, Oregon.

In my work as a fiction editor, I specialize in mystery. Such amazing and powerful techniques in our genre!


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

I just wish the Queens of Crime were still writing.

Anyone got any thoughts on _The Monogram Murders_ written by Sophie Hannah (the 'New Hercule Poirot Mystery)? I haven't read it as yet for the purely irrational reason that I can't bear the thought of Poirot in someone else's hands.

JB


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

Victoria Mixon said:


> I love Ngiao Marsh! She is my favorite of the 4 Grand Dames of British Mystery: Christie, Marsh, Margery Allingham, and Dorothy L. Sayers.
> 
> I have a huge collection of mysteries up to about the 1950s. My office is full of them. I've cleaned out almost every second-hand bookstore on the American West Coast--and I can never get enough of Powell's Books in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> In my work as a fiction editor, I specialize in mystery. Such amazing and powerful techniques in our genre!


I think it was in Powell's books in Portland that I stocked up with some Elizabeth Peters mysteries I hadn't been able find in the UK at the time, and read them during the long flight(s) home. Happy days!


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## Spin52 (Sep 6, 2015)

Victoria Mixon said:


> I love Ngiao Marsh! She is my favorite of the 4 Grand Dames of British Mystery: Christie, Marsh, Margery Allingham, and Dorothy L. Sayers.
> 
> I have a huge collection of mysteries up to about the 1950s. My office is full of them. I've cleaned out almost every second-hand bookstore on the American West Coast--and I can never get enough of Powell's Books in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> In my work as a fiction editor, I specialize in mystery. Such amazing and powerful techniques in our genre!


I love Ngaio Marsh's books, too, although I think her later ones weren't quite as good. Some of them have been re-issued in paperback versions but I have to say I have found quite a few typos in them, so buying the older ones in second-hand book stores is a better option if you can find them.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

JB Rowley said:


> I just wish the Queens of Crime were still writing.
> 
> Anyone got any thoughts on _The Monogram Murders_ written by Sophie Hannah (the 'New Hercule Poirot Mystery)? I haven't read it as yet for the purely irrational reason that I can't bear the thought of Poirot in someone else's hands.
> 
> JB


I don't even want to think about it. Hannah should find her own detective to write about. (Shudder)


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## David Crosby (Nov 12, 2015)

I've read mysteries since discovering the Hardy Boys as a kid.  One of my early favorites was John D. McDonald, a master of the genre.  I've just written and published my first mystery, Million Dollar Staircase, and have started on the second one.  Wish me luck!


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## Maia Sepp Ross (May 10, 2013)

David Wisehart said:


> Erle Stanley Gardner (creator of Perry Mason) devised a mystery plotting system that is detailed in the appendices of Secrets of the World's Best-Selling Writer: The Storytelling Techniques of Erle Stanley Gardner.
> 
> The key to Gardner's method is plotting the villain's story first.
> 
> ...


This is fantastic info. Thanks!


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

Victoria Mixon said:


> I love Ngiao Marsh! She is my favorite of the 4 Grand Dames of British Mystery: Christie, Marsh, Margery Allingham, and Dorothy L. Sayers.
> 
> I have a huge collection of mysteries up to about the 1950s. My office is full of them. I've cleaned out almost every second-hand bookstore on the American West Coast--and I can never get enough of Powell's Books in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> In my work as a fiction editor, I specialize in mystery. Such amazing and powerful techniques in our genre!


I agree! A bunch of wonderful writers.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> I don't even want to think about it. Hannah should find her own detective to write about. (Shudder)


Not meaning to pick on you or to necessarily disagree with you on that, but do the mystery writers here also agree with this sentiment in regards to other long-standing detectives, for example the perennial favorite: Sherlock Holmes.


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## blancheking (Oct 15, 2015)

Paranormal for me  I love cold cases.

Btw, congrats KG on your Kindle Scout selection!


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

I love cold cases too. Thanks, Blanche!


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Not meaning to pick on you or to necessarily disagree with you on that, but do the mystery writers here also agree with this sentiment in regards to other long-standing detectives, for example the perennial favorite: Sherlock Holmes.


Yes. There's a British television show with a contemporary Sherlock Holmes (I think it's called Sherlock) but it left me cold so didn't watch more than three quarters of one show. It's different to _The Monogram Murders_ in that they are using the original plots.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

JB Rowley said:


> Yes. There's a British television show with a contemporary Sherlock Holmes (I think it's called Sherlock) but it left me cold so didn't watch more than three quarters of one show. It's different to _The Monogram Murders_ in that they are using the original plots.


Sorry to disagree with you, but I love _Sherlock_. Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce they're not, but then those two wonderful actors, much as I loved those old movies, were even further afield from the originals.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

I think it depends. If I think of the follow-ons as an homage, or as similar to fan-fic then I'm in the right frame of mind to enjoy it. Perhaps because I'm mentally more open to the writer having their own voice and their own take on the original series.

But if it's more an attempt to seamlessly continue the earlier work then the differences grate and I dislike it.

The example the springs to mind is the SF/fantasy Pern series. Todd McCaffrey's books were not nearly as good as his mother's imho. 

It's one of those questions where you're going to find as many different opinions as there are people giving you the answers.


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## noirhvy (Dec 29, 2015)

Chandler basically said that Hammett took the murder out of the hands of the high-falutin' folks in the  Teddibly English  manor houses and gave it back to the people who were good at it.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

I don't have a problem with it. John LesCroat wrote two very well-received prequels to the Nero Wolfe series. Sam Spade has been covered by others in the comics. There were TV series about both Parker and Mickey Spillane that the authors of the novels didn't write. If i die and my novels are discovered and somebody picks up the torch, I wouldn't care.

And in other genres, the latest Jurassic World movie wasn't penned by Crichton, because he's been dead for a while. The TV series Sleepy Hollow bears little resemblance to Irving Washington's tale. And Bates Motel is one of my favorite shows. We can't be precious with pastiche or homage or even continuations or modern retellings. After all, there's nothing new under the sun.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Maybe I'm the odd man out then, but I generally don't mind it the older the original gets. Like Sherlock Holmes or any of Edgar Allan Poe's detectives. Those don't bug me. They're public domain so why not? If the story's good, then why not. But when more recent detectives are taken over by a literary estate and they hire another writer to continue or restart a series detective, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Sorry to disagree with you, but I love _Sherlock_. Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce they're not, but then those two wonderful actors, much as I loved those old movies, were even further afield from the originals.


No worries; I should probably 'get over it' so that I can enjoy Sherlock Holmes all over again. On the other hand, the original setting of nineteenth century London with its foggy streets and hackney cabs might be part of the seduction of the Conan-Doyle stories. Present day authors of historical crime novels tend to include far too much description whereas Conan-Doyle establishes setting and conveys atmosphere with a light touch.


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

JB Rowley said:


> No worries; I should probably 'get over it' so that I can enjoy Sherlock Holmes all over again. On the other hand, the original setting of nineteenth century London with its foggy streets and hackney cabs might be part of the seduction of the Conan-Doyle stories. Present day authors of historical crime novels tend to include far too much description whereas Conan-Doyle establishes setting and conveys atmosphere with a light touch.


I confess I prefer watching the old versions over and over rather than getting used to the newer ones. I like the foggy streets and pretty teacups.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

Mare said:


> I confess I prefer watching the old versions over and over rather than getting used to the newer ones. I like the foggy streets and pretty teacups.


So do I. I love Christie, Allingham, and Sayers (I need to read more Marsh) and Poe and Chesterton and Doyle etc... I think my problem with the modern stuff, and the various remakes, is that I have an 'edgy' allergy. Violence, sickness, and unlikable anti-heroes don't appeal to me at all. I've even been turned off by the later episodes of 'Poirot' and it used to be my favorite thing in the world. As much as I adore David Suchet I'll never watch _Murder on the Orient Express_ or _Curtain._ It's as if the writers are competing over who can make the most deviant, disturbing script. Isn't murder ENOUGH anymore?! I could rant on forever.

I would love to write a cozy mystery but it's a daunting genre. The grim research and coming up with a believable, enjoyable sleuth...ack. Maybe in a couple of years.


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## ppdiva (Feb 4, 2016)

thanks for starting this thread I'm switching over to the mystery genre this year specifically paranormal/supernatural.

Look forward to getting to know everyone!! Many Blessings


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Mare said:


> I confess I prefer watching the old versions over and over rather than getting used to the newer ones. I like the foggy streets and pretty teacups.


Jeremy Brett will always be Sherlock Holmes to me.


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## M.W. Griffith (Oct 13, 2015)

KGGiarratano said:


> I love cold cases too. Thanks, Blanche!


Cold cases are haunting to me. I once heard "write what scares you the most," and have pretty much stuck with that concept.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

The character I really like in these new Sherlocks is Mrs Hudson - the writers have developed her in some interesting directions.
I am fond of the gadgets and screen captions etc as well. I think they add an extra dimension.


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## Spin52 (Sep 6, 2015)

JB Rowley said:


> No worries; I should probably 'get over it' so that I can enjoy Sherlock Holmes all over again. On the other hand, the original setting of nineteenth century London with its foggy streets and hackney cabs might be part of the seduction of the Conan-Doyle stories. Present day authors of historical crime novels tend to include far too much description whereas Conan-Doyle establishes setting and conveys atmosphere with a light touch.


As a rule I don't like fan fic or other authors taking over a character when the original author has died, but I have to admit I am enjoying Laurie R. King's Sherlock Holmes/Mary Russell books. 
I'll have to check out the Nero Wolfe prequels. Rex Stout is one of my favorite authors and I didn't really like Robert Goldsborough's attempts to revive Wolfe and Archie. I think part of the problem is that those characters are so firmly set in the New York of the 1940s and 50s that they don't transpose well to a more contemporary setting. Archie using a computer rather than his trusty Underwood? Nah.


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

Jessie G. Talbot said:


> So do I. I love Christie, Allingham, and Sayers (I need to read more Marsh) and Poe and Chesterton and Doyle etc... I think my problem with the modern stuff, and the various remakes, is that I have an 'edgy' allergy. Violence, sickness, and unlikable anti-heroes don't appeal to me at all. I've even been turned off by the later episodes of 'Poirot' and it used to be my favorite thing in the world. As much as I adore David Suchet I'll never watch _Murder on the Orient Express_ or _Curtain._ It's as if the writers are competing over who can make the most deviant, disturbing script. Isn't murder ENOUGH anymore?! I could rant on forever.
> 
> I would love to write a cozy mystery but it's a daunting genre. The grim research and coming up with a believable, enjoyable sleuth...ack. Maybe in a couple of years.


Funny you should say that about Murder On The Orient Express-I felt exactly the same way!


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

Mare said:


> Funny you should say that about Murder On The Orient Express-I felt exactly the same way!


High five!


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

Jessie G. Talbot said:


> High five!


Yep, back to you!


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Jessie G. Talbot said:


> It's as if the writers are competing over who can make the most deviant, disturbing script. Isn't murder ENOUGH anymore?!


Exactly!


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

KGGiarratano said:


> Calling all mystery authors -- let's take the mystery out of our genre and talk shop. Mystery shop.
> 
> What do you write? Traditional? Cozies? Historical? Paranormal?
> 
> I kinda write them all. Working on a cozy mystery and I'm publishing a YA paranormal mystery trilogy. My first book is a paranormal YA mystery set in 1996 -- a super genre mashup.


Hi, and glad to find this thread!

I've been writing amateur sleuth mysteries for adults (although young adults seem to enjoy them, based feedback)for quite a while. It's still my favorite genre to read. For me, amateur sleuth is a cozy with a bit of an edge and some humor. My Evan Dunstan novella, Dead Man Floating, is my latest work (I'm really enjoying the novella format) and is about a campus security guard who finds himself in over his head while trying to solve a crime. I came up with the idea while I was working as a guard a few years back


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## ppdiva (Feb 4, 2016)

Haven't read through all the comments yet i'm curious if any of you are having major success with FB ads? I know FB ads what extremely well for romance but is it good for mystery genre...especially paranormal?

What are some effective promo sites and/or strategies that get you great results?

Thx


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Holy shit. Broadchurch is fantastic. That is all.


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## jec (May 13, 2015)

Love having this thread dedicated to mysteries. I'm working on launching my first Kindle Countdown for the year. What promo sites have you guys found most effective for paid mysteries?


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## Sarah Chute (Nov 11, 2015)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> Holy [crap]. Broadchurch is fantastic. That is all.


Finished the season, I'll assume?


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## noirhvy (Dec 29, 2015)

I tried to watch that new Sherlock but in the beginning Watson meets Holmes who is too busy whipping a corpse to talk to him and the flailing went on and on and I said to myself this is not entertainment and switched channels. Hollyweird and other folks love to recycle olde stuff (how many Batman movies do we need) because nobody has a clue as to how to pick a good script with a fresh notion. I'd like to like Vera on PBS but I can hardly understand a word of what they are saying. I guess this is why I like books.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

Here's another recommendation for Netflix. The Bletchley Circle. Super smart women solving murders.


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

KGGiarratano said:


> Here's another recommendation for Netflix. The Bletchley Circle. Super smart women solving murders.


Yep, I like that one too.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Sarah Chute said:


> Finished the season, I'll assume?


Both. I couldn't help myself. Other than a few stumbles in S2E02 or E03, and a bit of getting the British legal system a bit wrong (according to some British reviewers), it was really good. I think S02 gets far more negative reviews than it deserves. It's not quite as good as S01, but it's still really well done.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Yes, I enjoyed the _Bletchley Circle._

As for _Vera _ - that one's not bad. Yes, the actors are difficult to understand - have to use the subtitles most of the time.


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## Shawn Kobb (Aug 14, 2014)

A slightly different sub-genre than what has been discussed lately, but I've been enjoying the Jack Taylor series on Netflix starring Iain Glenn (from Game of Thrones). It is based on a series of hard-boiled detective novels by Ken Bruenn. He's a former Irish police officer in Galway. It really hits all the tropes and I'm a sucker for the Galway accent and the Irish atmosphere.

I haven't read the books yet. I should, but since they're by a major publisher, the Kindle versions are all in the $8+ range which I find tough to spend for an ebook.


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## jec (May 13, 2015)

I don't think this one has been mentioned yet but I absolutely adore Death in Paradise. It's on Netflix and is a fish out of water story about a straight laced British chief inspector transferred against his will to a Caribbean island. A lot of the mysteries are unique to the island, a voodoo queen announcing her own death, a descendant of slave owners being killed on a plantation where fifty slaves went missing... As such, the island becomes its own character.


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## Mare (Nov 3, 2015)

jec said:


> I don't think this one has been mentioned yet but I absolutely adore Death in Paradise. It's on Netflix and is a fish out of water story about a straight laced British chief inspector transferred against his will to a Caribbean island. A lot of the mysteries are unique to the island, a voodoo queen announcing her own death, a descendant of slave owners being killed on a plantation where fifty slaves went missing... As such, the island becomes its own character.


Sounds interesting. I'll check it out tonight. Was wanting something new to watch. Thanks!


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

jec said:


> I don't think this one has been mentioned yet but I absolutely adore Death in Paradise. It's on Netflix and is a fish out of water story about a straight laced British chief inspector transferred against his will to a Caribbean island. A lot of the mysteries are unique to the island, a voodoo queen announcing her own death, a descendant of slave owners being killed on a plantation where fifty slaves went missing... As such, the island becomes its own character.


Yes, _Death in Paradise_ is a bit of fun. It took me a long time to connect with it but as there was nothing else on that I found interesting I kept going back to it and eventually it grew on me. I like the contrast between the Columboesque English detective and his sharp assistant, Camille


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

What are everyone's views on Jonathan Creek? (If you have seen it). Not quitre a cozy mystery, but not gritty either. Loved the how-dunnit aspect of it.

(I'm writing a cozy mystery later in the year, so I'm loving this thread!)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Maybe we should change the name of this thread to The Great Mystery Readers/Viewers Thread.


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Maybe we should change the name of this thread to The Great Mystery Readers/Viewers Thread.


Hehe, oops. Sorry!


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

I love any genre of mystery. But what I particularly love is short fiction mystery. I love writing it, I love reading it. Mystery as a genre permits the writer to have the most unusual of protagonists. They can be young, they can be old, they can be fat, they can be thin--heck, they can even be Richard Nixon. And short fiction allows us as writers to explore these voices and develop them quickly.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

juliatheswede said:


> This makes no sense. If we already know who the killer is, how can it be a mystery It sounds like a straight-forward thriller to me.


Columbo is an open mystery, where we know who the killer is and have the fun of seeing the Great Detective solve the case. A closed mystery is more a traditional model, but open mysteries are a legit variation.


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Columbo is also known as a 'howcatchem' .


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Removed due to site owner's change of TOS.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

Rickie Blair said:


> Also--more on topic--can anybody recommend a good cozy mystery cover designer?


Sherry Soule did a lovely job on Sandra Baublitz's series. See this thread for the before and after versions. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,224721.0.html


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## JB Rowley (Jan 29, 2012)

Rickie Blair said:


> Also--more on topic--can anybody recommend a good cozy mystery cover designer?


Clarissa at Yocla Designs did _Murder in Murloo_ (in signature) for me. Can't recommend her highly enough. She does custom and pre-made. Website:http://yocladesigns.com/


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Two great suggestions. Thank you, JB and Lemontree.


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## KGGiarratano (Aug 14, 2013)

I think I've said this before but I love your covers, Rickie.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

Chrissy said:


> Have you found this method of mystery writing worked for you?


I'd already written the first draft of my new mystery novel, _Cold Reading_, before I read The Erle Stanley Gardner book. Wish I'd read it first. Would have saved me a few years of trial-and-error.

For future books in the series, I'll be following his advice.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

David Wisehart said:


> I'd already written the first draft of my new mystery novel, _Cold Reading_, before I read The Erle Stanley Gardner book. Wish I'd read it first. Would have saved me a few years of trial-and-error.
> 
> For future books in the series, I'll be following his advice.


Which parts specifically were the most helpful? Most comments I've seen in regards to this book focus on the plot formula and the nine questions / plot wheels.


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

To my total shock, the 2nd book in my light urban fantasy series (coming soon) is a mystery. Red herrings and everything! I just finished the outline yesterday and I wound up staring at it with a befuddled _who are you?_ sensation. The first book isn't a mystery at all, just straight up adventure, so I hope readers don't get too much of a jolt when I switch genres on them. Meanwhile I'm thrilled. My first mystery!


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## M.W. Griffith (Oct 13, 2015)

I love this thread.  Not just because I'm a mystery author and enjoy talking about the craft, either.  This is a great place to increase my mystery book collection and discover new authors in my genre!


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Casper Bogart said:


> I love any genre of mystery. But what I particularly love is short fiction mystery. I love writing it, I love reading it. Mystery as a genre permits the writer to have the most unusual of protagonists. They can be young, they can be old, they can be fat, they can be thin--heck, they can even be Richard Nixon. And short fiction allows us as writers to explore these voices and develop them quickly.


So happy to see another short story fan, and a mystery lover to boot! I adore short stories and especially short mysteries. Would never venture to write one, but I admire those who can do it well.


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## Copper Smith (Mar 24, 2016)

Hello, all!

I'm happy to stumble across this thread and excited about diving into the dark waters of hardboiled mystery. After years of ghostwriting, it's time to leap out of the shadows and self-publish! Any advice would be appreciated (and possibly followed).


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

I belong here, too. Currently working on my first cozy mystery series. Have my own thread, but I should belong to this community thread, too. I've never written a murder mystery before. My sci fi novelette is sort of a mystery, but not really. 

  I am slowly outlining everything and filling out my series Bible because I want to get everything right. The continuity needs to be right, and I want my cozy island town to feel like a real place where the characters actually live and have both a history and a future in. 

I've been reading this one mystery series and while I love it a lot, there are times when it feels that if more pre-planning should have been done. For example, the two main characters eat at this same diner in every single book. Which is fine, but the waitstaff in the diner are completely different in each book. If you're going to make a diner that important then take the time to write down who works there so that each time your characters visit you can have the continuity of the same faces. The main characters orders the exact same food every time for heaven's sake, why is she being served by a different faceless waiter each time, unless the waitress happens to be a suspect in that book. 

  To me, the town needs to be more than just an interchangeable backdrop for murder investigations. Have background characters who are just always there, living their ordinary life, getting up, going to work like a normal person. 

  I understand you have to reset the deck each time with a new cast of suspects, murderer and victim, but don't forget about the normal people who live there, too. It's details like this that really make a series come alive for me, and it's what I'm hoping to accomplish with my series. 

  Thus the slowness and all the pre-planning, but to me it will all be worth it.


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## 鬼 (Sep 30, 2012)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> I've been reading this one mystery series and while I love it a lot, there are times when it feels that if more pre-planning should have been done. For example, the two main characters eat at this same diner in every single book. Which is fine, but the waitstaff in the diner are completely different in each book. If you're going to make a diner that important then take the time to write down who works there so that each time your characters visit you can have the continuity of the same faces. The main characters orders the exact same food every time for heaven's sake, why is she being served by a different faceless waiter each time, unless the waitress happens to be a suspect in that book.
> 
> To me, the town needs to be more than just an interchangeable backdrop for murder investigations. Have background characters who are just always there, living their ordinary life, getting up, going to work like a normal person.


You've hit the nail on the head with this one. I, too, am writing my first cozy series and this is exactly what I've done. I think in some cases, some of these other authors are just spitting out books. You see it in their reviews.

I figure if my story is taking place in a small, quaint town-- it needs to be just that. A whole town. That means you've got a couple of bar owners, a couple of restaurant owners, the post office guy, people at the bank, people at the coffee shop(s), etc etc. I basically started by creating a list of a bunch of occupations that a town would need to essentially function. Not all of them have full-on descriptions, names, and ages or anything, but it serves as a reminder. If I come up with an idea or I need a throwaway character, I've got it. And then it can go on from there. Maybe they reappear in Bk 2 and then I can flesh them out further and start bringing them to life.

But it also serves another purpose. And that's to show that I'm not just creating the same character type throughout and using the first thing that comes to mind. I can't have all my characters be white, for instance. Or the same age group. Or have similar name spellings. Etc etc.

It needs to feel real and a great way to do that is to populate the town as you said.


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

Right! Unless a character is dead or the murderer which places them in the "never speak about again" category they are alive and well in the town and if the main stars naturally come across them they should get a mention. 

  I like to try and be as organic as I can with my planning, so I plan the story, creating what I need for that plot, then add it to the my Bible so it's there for posterity. I should probably start a map as well. 

  The hardest part about mystery writing for me is that once I create a character and discover their backstory and all that good stuff I start to like them and don't want them to die.  The solution, in my case, has been to make sure I have lots of really interesting "main and carry-over" characters to console myself with.


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## cecilia_writer (Dec 28, 2010)

This is one of the best aspects of writing a series I think - I often find that I can give someone who starts out as a minor character in one book something a lot more interesting to do in a later novel in the series. I had a pub landlord whose name nobody could ever remember, who suddenly pushed himself to the forefront of a story, and a character who survived being obnoxious in a few books before I killed him off.


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

oakwood said:


> I completely agree! A strong magnet in many traditional mystery series is the town and its residents.. as much as the mystery itself. The more credible and rich the tapestry that holds the mystery, the better. this is something for example most modern Cozy stories have very little of. And they don't need it since the tone is lighter and almost humorous. readers are fine with um.. a certain degree of shallowness in Cozies.
> 
> Personally, when I read a mystery I like it to be as rich as newly turned black soil, the fatter the tapestry the better. Same with fantasy - I have a hard time reading a lot of what is on the market today. But then I'm picky. Not like the nephews kids who read stuff seemingly intended for 3:rd graders even though they are adults. Between spending so much time playing games, hooked on FB and texting needless nonsense 24/7.. no wonder  C'est la vie!
> 
> many modern cozies are making bank though. There is always that.


 Making bank........ I wonder what that's like?

I think most cozy readers just want an entertaining read, a fun puzzle, and a cast of they characters they can be friends with and root for, so as long as a book has these elements most readers will be satisfied. I know I usually am even if I'm thinking I wish they would have done this or that differently.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> The hardest part about mystery writing for me is that once I create a character and discover their backstory and all that good stuff I start to like them and don't want them to die.  The solution, in my case, has been to make sure I have lots of really interesting "main and carry-over" characters to console myself with.


I have experience that too, but my solution is pretty simple. I make it look like they're going to be killed off, but instead I kill off someone else, usually in an unexpected way.

When you've developed a great character, keep them around. It makes writing so much more enjoyable.


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

David Chill said:


> I have experience that too, but my solution is pretty simple. I make it look like they're going to be killed off, but instead I kill off someone else, usually in an unexpected way.
> 
> When you've developed a great character, keep them around. It makes writing so much more enjoyable.


 That's a good way to handle it. As a reader, I like it when the author can fake me out and give me a pleasant surprise. I feel like that quite often when I read an Agatha Christie novel.

Though I have had one experience with an unexpected death that made me throw the book across the room and vow to never read another one of her book's again. It wasn't a mystery though.

I have a question about creating suspects. I read somewhere that every suspect has a secret and that every suspect is lying to protect that secret, although only one of the secrets is that they're a murderer.

So when creating your suspects, do you give each one a juicy secret first, or do you figure out their motive, means, and opportunity and then create a secret? I have 5 suspects right now but none of them has a secret except for the murderer.


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## Chinese Writer (Mar 25, 2014)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> I have a question about creating suspects. I read somewhere that every suspect has a secret and that every suspect is lying to protect that secret, although only one of the secrets is that they're a murderer.
> 
> So when creating your suspects, do you give each one a juicy secret first, or do you figure out their motive, means, and opportunity and then create a secret? I have 5 suspects right now but none of them has a secret except for the murderer.


I write the backstory first when I'm plotting a story. All the characters role, their motives, alibis (or lack of). Then I figure out what trigger the murder now, how the murder was done, and who discovered the body. Then I plot the front story (the one the reader is reading) and insert back story as the sleuth discovers pieces of the back story from the interviews.


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

artan said:


> I write the backstory first when I'm plotting a story. All the characters role, their motives, alibis (or lack of). Then I figure out what trigger the murder now, how the murder was done, and who discovered the body. Then I plot the front story (the one the reader is reading) and insert back story as the sleuth discovers pieces of the back story from the interviews.


 I started with the murder, how it happened, who did it and why. Then I looked for suspects and created their MMO's. But I'm having trouble connecting those two things to my detective and jumpstarting her investigation. I need to work on it some more. I've wanted to write a murder mystery forever, but my brain doesn't easily create these kind of plots. I've been reading and watching mysteries for forever, so it shouldn't be that difficult, but for some reason it truly is.... I'm a lot closer this attempt than I ever have been before. I see this as a good sign, but I worry that my mystery plot will be too weak. Dame Agatha Christie I am not.

The island building is lots of fun, though! I love world building so much.


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## TheLemontree (Sep 12, 2015)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> I started with the murder, how it happened, who did it and why. Then I looked for suspects and created their MMO's. But I'm having trouble connecting those two things to my detective and jumpstarting her investigation. I need to work on it some more. I've wanted to write a murder mystery forever, but my brain doesn't easily create these kind of plots. I've been reading and watching mysteries for forever, so it shouldn't be that difficult, but for some reason it truly is.... I'm a lot closer this attempt than I ever have been before. I see this as a good sign, but I worry that my mystery plot will be too weak. Dame Agatha Christie I am not.
> 
> The island building is lots of fun, though! I love world building so much.


My process has gone like this:
1. Brainstorm who the victim is and half a dozen people connected to him/her, along with how those people know each other and what their secrets/motives are. I just did this as a spider-chart on a bit of paper. It includes the sleuth (because it's not a PI or police procedural - the sleuth has a personal stake) and some of the long term characters as well as the single-appearance people.
2. Work out the timeline of the action from murderer's perspective. How and why did the crime start? What happens next? Who knows what and when? Follow this through until the end of the story, including things like how he/she attempts to misdirect the investigation.
3. Work out the timeline of the action from the sleuth's perspective. How does he/she discover the crime, what motivates her to solve it, what is the thread of clues that lead her to each of the suspects
4. What does the finale look like?
5. Interview the sleuth, victim and murderer according to the questions suggested here: http://writeonsisters.com/writing-craft/top-ten-things-writers-should-ask-their-characters/

Steps 2, 3, and 4 happen simultaneously, but I begin nutting them out in that order.

I've written nearly to the end of Act 1 and so far the outline that the above process produced has held up well.


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## Fishbowl Helmet (Jan 12, 2014)

Flights_of_Fantasy said:


> I have a question about creating suspects. I read somewhere that every suspect has a secret and that every suspect is lying to protect that secret, although only one of the secrets is that they're a murderer.


That's basically what I go for. Everyone's lying about something, but only one has the MMO to have done the crime. All the suspects are basically on a Venn diagram charting the MMO. Only the killer is in the center where all three overlap. The two aspects (MM, MO, etc) are where the other suspects can look guilty. But yeah, definitely have everyone lying about something. That's how you can make them look even more guilty despite you knowing they're not the killer. They've got two of the three (MMO) and they're caught in a lie that they're unwilling to reveal because it's damaging to them in some way.



> So when creating your suspects, do you give each one a juicy secret first, or do you figure out their motive, means, and opportunity and then create a secret? I have 5 suspects right now but none of them has a secret except for the murderer.


It can go either way, which is first that is, the MMO or the secret. But it works better when they're tied together somehow.

Do what you think is right for your story, but that might be too many suspects. Typically I've seen 3-4 including the murderer.


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## K&#039;Sennia Visitor (Jan 14, 2014)

Fishbowl Helmet said:


> That's basically what I go for. Everyone's lying about something, but only one has the MMO to have done the crime. All the suspects are basically on a Venn diagram charting the MMO. Only the killer is in the center where all three overlap. The two aspects (MM, MO, etc) are where the other suspects can look guilty. But yeah, definitely have everyone lying about something. That's how you can make them look even more guilty despite you knowing they're not the killer. They've got two of the three (MMO) and they're caught in a lie that they're unwilling to reveal because it's damaging to them in some way.
> 
> It can go either way, which is first that is, the MMO or the secret. But it works better when they're tied together somehow.
> 
> Do what you think is right for your story, but that might be too many suspects. Typically I've seen 3-4 including the murderer.


 I got the 5 suspects from Elizabeth Spann Craig since that's how many suspects she likes to have, though she always kills one off mid-way through, so she's only left with 4. She's got a good series on cozy mystery writing on her blog.

http://elizabethspanncraig.com/3345/writing-the-cozy-mystery-the-suspects/

And then tonight I found this site, which I think is really going to help me with the plotting.

http://misaramirez.com/for-writers/the-heros-journey-mystery-style/

PS: The link you shared was really helpful, too.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

TheLemontree said:


> My process has gone like this:
> 1. Brainstorm who the victim is and half a dozen people connected to him/her, along with how those people know each other and what their secrets/motives are. I just did this as a spider-chart on a bit of paper. It includes the sleuth (because it's not a PI or police procedural - the sleuth has a personal stake) and some of the long term characters as well as the single-appearance people.
> 2. Work out the timeline of the action from murderer's perspective. How and why did the crime start? What happens next? Who knows what and when? Follow this through until the end of the story, including things like how he/she attempts to misdirect the investigation.
> 3. Work out the timeline of the action from the sleuth's perspective. How does he/she discover the crime, what motivates her to solve it, what is the thread of clues that lead her to each of the suspects
> ...


For me, the critical issue is step 4, what is the finale and what does the story look like when the killer is revealed. For me, the best mysteries are ones that leave the reader thinking, "Of course! Why didn't I think of that one?!"


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## Victoria LK (Jan 31, 2014)

Queen_of_Shorts said:


> I belong here, too. Currently working on my first cozy mystery series. Have my own thread, but I should belong to this community thread, too. I've never written a murder mystery before. My sci fi novelette is sort of a mystery, but not really.
> 
> I am slowly outlining everything and filling out my series Bible because I want to get everything right. The continuity needs to be right, and I want my cozy island town to feel like a real place where the characters actually live and have both a history and a future in.
> 
> ...


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