# Erotica -- Anonymity, Copyright, Length, and Pricing?



## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

A few questions for those of you who are successfully writing erotica under several pen names:

1 - ANONYMITY & COPYRIGHT:

How do you retain anonymity and yet put in safeguards to prove copyright, and retain ownership, proving that you actually wrote the work, in case there is a dispute? (Eg. -- someone copies your entire ebook and decides to publish it for sale under their own pen name -- how do you prove yours came first, since both parties are likely using pen names?)

If you copyright using the formal US Library of Congress method, you will have to connect your real name to the pen name, so there's no anonymity.

So, how do you do it?

2 - LENGTH & PRICING

Scrolling through erotica on Amazon, most are full-length novel books, and tons are Shades of Grey wanna-be knockoffs. I thought it is very common to have very short confession type stories, or would that be hardcore porn? Is there a separate porn designation on Amazon, or is everything erotica?

As far as general pricing, what seems to be a favorable pricing pattern for erotica?

Is it common to price short erotic stories over 99 cents? 

GENERAL QUESTIONS:

Any other advice on writing erotica? 

Is there anything out there that's popular but not so much BDSM?  Cause I really find BDSM tedious and would rather write anything else -- weird fetish, funny, etc. 

So, what else is hot? Specific fetish? Body parts?

Thanks in advance!


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

1. It's no different than if you were using real names. If you published it first, you have grounds to sue them.

2. I've seen all lengths. My two erotica novels (under another name) are about 200 pages. They sell just fine at that length.

As for pricing, I list both of them for $5.99 and then sell just fine.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Vera Nazarian said:


> If you copyright using the formal US Library of Congress method, you will have to connect your real name to the pen name, so there's no anonymity.


This is simply not true.

From the instructions to Form TX: 
"Anonymous" or "Pseudonymous" Work: An author's contribution to a work is "anonymous" is that author is not identified on the copies or phonorecords of the work. An author's contribution to a work is "pseudonymous" if that author is identified on the copies or phonorecords under a fictitious name. If the work is "anonymous" you may: (1) leave the line blank; or (2) state "anonymous" on the line; or (3) reveal the author's identity. If the work is "pseudonymous" you may (1) leave the line blank; or (2) give the pseudonym and identify it as such (for example: "Huntley Haverstock, pseudonym"); or (3) reveal the author's name, making clear which is the real name and which is the pseudonym (for example, "Judith Barton, whose pseudonym is Madeline Elster"). However, the citizenship or domicile of the author _must_ be given in all cases.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

If you want to write erotica, I recommend the Erotica Reader's and Writer's Association.  There's a wealth of advice on their website and in their email lists on writing erotica in general, as well as an opportunity to have your stuff critiqued by people who know erotica.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Amanda Brice said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> From the instructions to Form TX:
> "Anonymous" or "Pseudonymous" Work: An author's contribution to a work is "anonymous" is that author is not identified on the copies or phonorecords of the work. An author's contribution to a work is "pseudonymous" if that author is identified on the copies or phonorecords under a fictitious name. If the work is "anonymous" you may: (1) leave the line blank; or (2) state "anonymous" on the line; or (3) reveal the author's identity. If the work is "pseudonymous" you may (1) leave the line blank; or (2) give the pseudonym and identify it as such (for example: "Huntley Haverstock, pseudonym"); or (3) reveal the author's name, making clear which is the real name and which is the pseudonym (for example, "Judith Barton, whose pseudonym is Madeline Elster"). However, the citizenship or domicile of the author _must_ be given in all cases.


Oh good! Somehow I must have missed this the last time I was copyrighting... Thank so much for pointing it out, yaaay!


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## Vanades (Aug 10, 2012)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Is there anything out there that's popular but not so much BDSM? Cause I really find BDSM tedious and would rather write anything else -- weird fetish, funny, etc.


Why don't you just try it out? You won't know if it sells until you try it.

Don't write something you don't like and find _tedious _just because you think it will sell.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Is there anything out there that's popular but not so much BDSM? Cause I really find BDSM tedious and would rather write anything else -- weird fetish, funny, etc.


I also find reading about BDSM tedious.

My best advice is to find something you're interested in writing about. In my opinion, it shows through in the story.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Lyonesse said:


> Why don't you just try it out? You won't know if it sells until you try it.
> 
> Don't write something you don't like and find _tedious _just because you think it will sell.


I am not sure I understand correctly?

I am saying I don't like reading BDSM, it is tedious to me, and not a turn on. In fact, I want to b**ch-slap the Grey-type alpha males with their power games.

So you're saying I should try to write it anyway?

*confused*

My question is, what other fetish or whatsit stuff is very popular, OTHER than BDSM?

*edited to add*: Cause I'm pretty much happy and willing to write anything else.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

I think he said, DON'T write something you find tedious.

Readers can usually sense if you're going through the motions or actually like/believe in what you're writing.

I second André's suggestion to join ERWA. They have a critique list, and you can post your stories in a protected environment and get feedback form experienced erotica writers who know the market.


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## Vanades (Aug 10, 2012)

Vera Nazarian said:


> So you're saying I should try to write it anyway?
> 
> My question is, what other fetish or whatsit stuff is very popular, OTHER than BDSM?


No, I meant, write the stuff you find interesting. If you don't like BDSM, don't force yourself to write it.

Think about the things that turn you on and write about them. Don't focus so much on what's popular. Sometimes an unexplored niche can turn into something very successful because it was unexplored until then, especially if the writing shows that the author likes writing about it.

I don't like abusers of the Grey-type either, but then BDSM can be so much more. I've read a few very good BDSM-novels that really focused on consent and where the dom is dominant without being an alpha-asshole. What I really would like to read is a novel where the woman is the dominant one and they explore the whole issues of male submission and female dominance in the context of our society. But no-one seems to write that :-(. Guess I have to do it myself ;-).


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Cause I'm pretty much happy and willing to write anything else.


In erotica, 'anything else' is a very broad statement.

How about a story about a woman


Spoiler



rid


ing a donkey on stage with a


Spoiler



flower


 stuck in her


Spoiler



hair


?


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

> What I really would like to read is a novel where the woman is the dominant one and they explore the whole issues of male submission and female dominance in the context of our society.


I have a few femdom shorts--they don't sell as well as the maledom books, but they do get some interest. I notice they usually sell quite well on release, and then drop off after a few months and more or less disappear. If my authors kept 'em coming every 30 days, perhaps that interest could be sustained. Sadly, my authors keep whining about things like day jobs and families and "real life," whatever that is. I see more femdom short stories than novels, though (not just in the stuff I publish).


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

I sell my two male/male erotica short stories at $1.99 and they sell at that. 99 cents seems to cheap unless you're running a sale or something that week. Don't force yourself to write something you don't like just because you think it will sell. Write what you want to read - chances are so will other people 

I think there was a list somewhere of different fetishes, but I can't remember where I saw it. Something like that might spark some ideas.


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## Vanades (Aug 10, 2012)

1001nightspress said:


> I have a few femdom shorts--they don't sell as well as the maledom books, but they do get some interest. I notice they usually sell quite well on release, and then drop off after a few months and more or less disappear. If my authors kept 'em coming every 30 days, perhaps that interest could be sustained. Sadly, my authors keep whining about things like day jobs and families and "real life," whatever that is. I see more femdom short stories than novels, though (not just in the stuff I publish).


I've read a few shorts but really want a novel that takes the necessary time to explore the dynamic.

Family? Real life? What's that?


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Vera Nazarian said:


> My question is, what other fetish or whatsit stuff is very popular, OTHER than BDSM?
> 
> *edited to add*: Cause I'm pretty much happy and willing to write anything else.


And this makes me ask, WHY do you want to write erotica? Is it because you think it will sell?

What really sells, is something that works for you. That could be anything from a sweet romance (with steamy scenes), to any kind of fetish you can imagine (and a hundred you can't). I'll refrain from listing out fetishes due to Harvey's family friendly rule, but you can browse through Fetlife and Literotica and find some eye popping things (and a huge range of quality, but that's another topic). But- *this is key*- if it doesn't float YOUR boat, don't write about it. Readers can tell and odds are good you won't know enough about it to make it sound remotely credible.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Lyonesse said:


> No, I meant, write the stuff you find interesting. If you don't like BDSM, don't force yourself to write it.
> 
> Think about the things that turn you on and write about them. Don't focus so much on what's popular. Sometimes an unexplored niche can turn into something very successful because it was unexplored until then, especially if the writing shows that the author likes writing about it.
> 
> I don't like abusers of the Grey-type either, but then BDSM can be so much more. I've read a few very good BDSM-novels that really focused on consent and where the dom is dominant without being an alpha-[expletive]. *What I really would like to read is a novel where the woman is the dominant one and they explore the whole issues of male submission and female dominance in the context of our society.* But no-one seems to write that :-(. Guess I have to do it myself ;-).


Okay, if I had to write BDSM, I might be able to do that, with woman being the dom, but as I said, I'd prefer not to touch that whole genre...


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> If you want to write erotica, I recommend the Erotica Reader's and Writer's Association. There's a wealth of advice on their website and in their email lists on writing erotica in general, as well as an opportunity to have your stuff critiqued by people who know erotica.


Good to know, thanks!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

swolf said:


> In erotica, 'anything else' is a very broad statement.
> 
> How about a story about a woman
> 
> ...


Hey, I can totally write that!  No, really, I COULD DO THAT. *evil grin*

But my question is, specifically, after BDSM, what else is really *popular* on Kindle erotica?

And to add to that, how much *humor* is a turn off? I'd love to do dysfunctional / weird / fetish / humorous sex stuff, but want to maintain the sexy mood for the reader....


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> I have a few femdom shorts--they don't sell as well as the maledom books, but they do get some interest. I notice they usually sell quite well on release, and then drop off after a few months and more or less disappear. If my authors kept 'em coming every 30 days, perhaps that interest could be sustained. Sadly, my authors keep whining about things like day jobs and families and "real life," whatever that is. I see more femdom short stories than novels, though (not just in the stuff I publish).


Okay, this is exactly the kind of specific responses I was looking for, thanks! 

So, femdom, not as hot, sales-wise. Bummer...

Because I really really really need to do the proverbial "make money fast" in so, do not want to stack the deck against sales by going with a less popular sub-genre. Heck, I know I am already undercutting myself by not wanting to do the male-dom BDSM.... But it just really p*sses me off, and I don't think I can maintain the sexy while p*ssed that way off. On the other hand, it might work well for femdom, I guess. Argh!


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

You don't "have" to write anything.

What do you WANT to write? Write that.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

David Stephens said:


> Write that.


Hmmmm..... *thinking*

Since I write good parodies already (such as my *Vampires are from Venus, Werewolves are from Mars*), this is kind of up my alley, if I make it funny.

If I don't make it funny, it will be regular femdom, but it will not sell as well (according to one of you who tried it) and I need it to sell -- potentially, of course no one can predict ales, we can only make choices to write one type of thing or another.

I write really GOOD sex scenes in my regular fantasy and SF and other genres. But to get to them you need to buy my regular books which sell a trickle...

In a nutshell, I need money fast.

I know it's crass, but so is going to the food bank.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> And this makes me ask, WHY do you want to write erotica? Is it because you think it will sell?


Yes.

And sell WELL and FAST -- more so than any other genre in which you first needs to find an audience.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> You don't "have" to write anything.
> 
> What do you WANT to write? Write that.


I understand, but my simple question is, what is popular in written erotica now, other than BDSM?

Notice, I am not asking what kind of porn is hot on the internet, etc. I know there's all kinds of fetish stuff out there. But not all of it is hot on Kindle...

I want specifically to aim for a PROVEN lucrative subset of the written erotica market (without the BDSM).

The kind of think I can crank out in a few days, and sell it decently tomorrow.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Um.... it's not as simple as seeing what sells best and then deciding you'll do it fast, even though you despise it. Look how many people tried to be 50 Shades of Gray, and they weren't. The original author, say what you like about her literary merits, believed in her work, and that shows. If you hate that kind of book, I don't think you could write one that many readers would like.

One of my most skilled authors writes humor. Doesn't particularly sell. He writes it because he loves it, and he does it extremely well. A few P.G. Wodehouse-type fans find him, and his fans are devoted. But he's not retiring off the profits (nor does he need to).

Erotica is not easier to write than anything else. I know that's the perception, but I just don't think it's true. Why do you think erotica would sell better than any other genre in which you first need to find an audience? I don't get that thinking at all. In fact, erotica can be harder to sell because there's so much available free online. Someone who's looking for a quick "rhymes with Yank" doesn't need to pay for that.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

> I wan specifically to aim for a PROVEN lucrative subset of the written erotica market (without the BDSM).


OK, I know the answer to that one: Long erotic romance novels, preferably in a series.

Edited to add: Sorry, I missed this part:

"the kind of think I can crank out in a few days, and sell it decently tomorrow."

My answer to that would be, "Nothing."


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> Um.... it's not as simple as seeing what sells best and then deciding you'll do it fast, even though you despise it. Look how many people tried to be 50 Shades of Gray, and they weren't. The original author, say what you like about her literary merits, believed in her work, and that shows. If you hate that kind of book, I don't think you could write one that many readers would like.
> 
> One of my most skilled authors writes humor. Doesn't particularly sell. He writes it because he loves it, and he does it extremely well. A few P.G. Wodehouse-type fans find him, and his fans are devoted. But he's not retiring off the profits (nor does he need to).
> 
> Erotica is not easier to write than anything else. I know that's the perception, but I just don't think it's true. Why do you think erotica would sell better than any other genre in which you first need to find an audience? I don't get that thinking at all. In fact, erotica can be harder to sell because there's so much available free online. Someone who's looking for a quick "rhymes with Yank" doesn't need to pay for that.


Okay, I don't want this to turn into a topic of "write in the genre you love best." I know, and I already do.

However, i*t's a fact that erotica sells generally better than anything else out there*, right out of the gate.

We all know that. And my questions are pretty simple.

And no, I don't despise erotica at all. I love good erotica.

What I do not like is BDSM -- not because I am "offended" (okay, a little, I want to thrash Christian Grey, and not in a good way), but it does not turn me on. I am perfectly fine with it and other people engaging in it. But, I am not the consumer for it. However I am all up for other good sex!

So, my quick and dirty (good way dirty) quesiton is, what is hot in written erotica on Kindle?

Quick answer!

Go!


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, given that you don't believe my answer, I don't know what else to tell you. I can only share what I know of the market from having written in it and published in it for two years. 

Other people might have information that's more to your liking.

And as for what's selling best, why not check the top 100 in paid erotica?


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> OK, I know the answer to that one: Long erotic romance novels, preferably in a series.
> 
> Edited to add: Sorry, I missed this part:
> 
> ...


Aww, come on! *grin* Dean Wesley Smith would disagree with you and so would many other people who write fast and can crank it out, and make it good too...

So, forget I used that terminology. Let's assume I took months to craft a sexy jewel...

My question remains, what's hot in written erotica these days?


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

My answer is still the same:

*Long erotic romance novels, preferably in a series.*

Check the top 100 in paid erotica. I think that will bear this out. You'll also find some exceptions, so if you can't write long erotic romance novels in a series, then see what those other things are.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> Well, given that you don't believe my answer, I don't know what else to tell you. I can only share what I know of the market from having written in it and published in it for two years.
> 
> Other people might have information that's more to your liking.
> 
> And as for what's selling best, why not check the top 100 in paid erotica?


It's not that I don't believe your answer, it's that you haven't answered my question. If you don't have an answer, no prob. 

Ans for looking at the top 100 in erotica... *it's ALL dratted BDSM, 50 SHADES knockoffs* (some with paranormal thrown in)! I just went through it!

That's why I am asking. Asking those of you who have more experience in erotica field and know long-term trends.

But I might have just sadly answered my own question....


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> My answer is still the same:
> 
> *Long erotic romance novels, preferably in a series.*
> 
> Check the top 100 in paid erotica. I think that will bear this out. You'll also find some exceptions, so if you can't write long erotic romance novels in a series, then see what those other things are.


Okay, thanks. It is definitely more specific, but still not specific enough (as in, erotic romance could mean anything).

But, thanks!


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## Skye Hunter (Apr 30, 2013)

BDSM sells well
Weird out there fetishes(pseudo incest/lactation) also have a market
Stories about bad boys/rockers/billionaires seem to do well. 
Shapeshifter Erotica also sells well.
BBW erotica is also a decent seller. 

TLDR : Write a short story about a billionaire rocker who transforms into a werewolf each night and the BBW that falls in love with him on first sight(then they have raunchy sex).


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

Even if you can crank good stuff out in a few days (and if you can, I'm envious ), there is no guarantee it'll start selling right out of the gate. If you don't have an established name, it may take a while for readers to notice you. If Amazon sticks you in the "adult" dungeon, as they are prone to doing lately, even the best-written book may sink like a rock. You'll probably want a decent cover, so there's an expense right up front (though Go On Write has some nice premades that aren't too expensive). If I knew how to write erotica and guarantee sales, that's what I'd do. But it doesn't work that way, alas. You might hit big with your first story, and you might not.

I gather "breeding" is popular (I admit to not quite knowing what this is, but if you look on Amazon and read a few I'm sure you can figure it out right away). M/m erotic romance sells well on ARe. Wolfies and cat shifters seem to be generally popular. I do know of one funny erotic author (Shelly Laurenston), but in general I'm not sure how well funny hot stuff sells. I agree that bad boys/billionaires/rockers are a hot thing, but If you don't like Christian Grey you might not like writing them.


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## Skye Hunter (Apr 30, 2013)

MegHarris said:


> Even if you can crank good stuff out in a few days (and if you can, I'm envious ), there is no guarantee it'll start selling right out of the gate. If you don't have an established name, it may take a while for readers to notice you. If Amazon sticks you in the "adult" dungeon, as they are prone to doing lately, even the best-written book may sink like a rock. You'll probably want a decent cover, so there's an expense right up front (though Go On Write has some nice premades that aren't too expensive). If I knew how to write erotica and guarantee sales, that's what I'd do. But it doesn't work that way, alas. You might hit big with your first story, and you might not.
> 
> I gather "breeding" is popular (I admit to not quite knowing what this is, but if you look on Amazon and read a few I'm sure you can figure it out right away). M/m erotic romance sells well on ARe. Wolfies and cat shifters seem to be generally popular. I do know of one funny erotic author (Shelly Laurenston), but in general I'm not sure how well funny hot stuff sells. I agree that bad boys/billionaires/rockers are a hot thing, but If you don't like Christian Grey you might not like them.


Yes, I never got what breeding actually was. I assume putting a baby in the person is somehow erotic these days or maybe it's the taboo of not wearing a condom(although what erotica stories have people wear condoms these days?)


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Skye Hunter said:


> BDSM sells well
> Weird out there fetishes(pseudo incest/lactation) also have a market
> Stories about bad boys/rockers/billionaires seem to do well.
> Shapeshifter Erotica also sells well.
> ...


OKAY! *That's* what I was looking for! Thanks for the specific answers!!!

Yaaay!


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Yeah, breeding is pregnancy. Not necessarily sought after by the woman, if you catch my drift. It's a popular niche, but still just a niche--it's not going to sell like the long erotic romances set in historical Scotland, perhaps with a touch of the paranormal, part one in a whole series about the dashing clan.

Lots of erotica these days makes specific mention of condoms, actually. Some readers will take you to task for not mentioning them. I feel like one of those "You know you're old when ..." ...when you remember having sex back before AIDS. And then I married before it became an issue, really, so ... I missed condoms as being for much besides pregnancy prevention. But I think single people in their 20's have a very different view.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

MegHarris said:


> Even if you can crank good stuff out in a few days (and if you can, I'm envious ), there is no guarantee it'll start selling right out of the gate. If you don't have an established name, it may take a while for readers to notice you. If Amazon sticks you in the "adult" dungeon, as they are prone to doing lately, even the best-written book may sink like a rock. You'll probably want a decent cover, so there's an expense right up front (though Go On Write has some nice premades that aren't too expensive). If I knew how to write erotica and guarantee sales, that's what I'd do. But it doesn't work that way, alas. You might hit big with your first story, and you might not.
> 
> I gather "breeding" is popular (I admit to not quite knowing what this is, but if you look on Amazon and read a few I'm sure you can figure it out right away). M/m erotic romance sells well on ARe. Wolfies and cat shifters seem to be generally popular. I do know of one funny erotic author (Shelly Laurenston), but in general I'm not sure how well funny hot stuff sells. I agree that bad boys/billionaires/rockers are a hot thing, but If you don't like Christian Grey you might not like writing them.


Okay, this is all awesome details, and thank you for the answer! Very helpful!

It gives me a quick place to focus on -- doesn't mean I can write fast or crank it out or anything (nor do I presume I am gonna get great sales), just gives me a "quick and dirty" starting place to get in.

Thanks!


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> Lots of erotica these days makes specific mention of condoms, actually.


I agree. People can get irate over this topic, and I don't want to derail the thread, but I do generally have my characters use condoms unless there's a valid story reason, especially until the relationship is established. But I'm a writer of erotic romance and can't say that this is absolutely standard in erotica. Still, having your characters use a condom wouldn't be at all unusual.



> Yeah, breeding is pregnancy. Not necessarily sought after by the woman, if you catch my drift.


Speaking as someone who's had four babies, I can't quite figure out why anyone finds this sexy.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

AuthorDianaBaron said:


> As an erotic romance writer I totally agree. You can't just write sex. The story has to have depth and make sense otherwise readers won't connect with it. It takes time to build an audience so all you can do is write what you feel comfortable writing and go from there.


Oh, I understand, and I apologize if my original question came across in any way disparaging.

NOTHING is easy to write. Everything takes loving effort.

But selling? Yes, erotica just tends to sell better. That's my whole point.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> Yeah, breeding is pregnancy. Not necessarily sought after by the woman, if you catch my drift. It's a popular niche, but still just a niche--it's not going to sell like the long erotic romances set in historical Scotland, perhaps with a touch of the paranormal, part one in a whole series about the dashing clan.
> 
> Lots of erotica these days makes specific mention of condoms, actually. Some readers will take you to task for not mentioning them. I feel like one of those "You know you're old when ..." ...when you remember having sex back before AIDS. And then I married before it became an issue, really, so ... I missed condoms as being for much besides pregnancy prevention. But I think single people in their 20's have a very different view.


Okay, good to know that condoms = must have.

In my regular non-erotica genre fantasy books, usually with pre-industrial societies where condoms don't exist as we know them, when I write sex scenes I include other types of "fantasy contraception."

For example in *Lords of Rainbow*, I had a sex scene in a bathing pool, and the hero dropped a pinch of special powder crystals into the water that prevents conception. Then the characters entered the water and engaged in sex after the powder dissolved in the pool.

So writing contemporary real world sex is new for me... So do NOT want to turn off the readers by the simple act of condom omission.

*taking condom notes*


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

> Yes, erotica just tends to sell better.


Can I ask what you're basing this on? Anything other than 50 Shades, which I'd call an outlier? If you look at top seller lists, I think they're full of mysteries and romances. I do know that BN and Amazon fiddle with their best-seller rankings to keep erotica off the top 100 to at least some extent, but even so, I don't think it's true that erotica sells better than some other genres.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

1001nightspress said:


> Can I ask what you're basing this on? Anything other than 50 Shades, which I'd call an outlier? If you look at top seller lists, I think they're full of mysteries and romances. I do know that BN and Amazon fiddle with their best-seller rankings to keep erotica off the top 100 to at least some extent, but even so, I don't think it's true that erotica sells better than some other genres.


Well, if it doesn't sell better, that's news to me.

I thought it was common knowledge... long before Fifty Shades appeared.

How old is the saying, "Sex sells?"


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Vera

(1) As Tanith Lee's publisher, email me all the erotica questions you want -- especially if it will get Delirium's Mistress SE Hardback out faster. 

(2) Here's what comes to mind on your questions

On the copyright - you can register under the pen name but your rights are slightly different as far as length of copyright and as you note, proof can be an issue. You can create a Delaware LLC with a Delaware resident agent and keep your name out of databases. You can use this LLC with an EIN from IRS to act as Seller on Apple. Your LLC signs a contract with the author for the work in question - this contract has author name and "writing as" filled in. This works even if you are signing a contract with yourself - you need something to send to Amazon sometimes and this usually keeps them chilled out on your behalf. I imagine you could get the contract notarized for further proof, but that is overkill I think.

Length and pricing is Kink dependent. Look at the top authors for the kink and what they are pricing at. PI (pseudo-incest), I've seen as short as 5k sell for 2.99 with drool inducing ranks. Breeding is another. The more accessible your erotica writing is, the more you can charge IMO. If it's all gorgeous literary erotica...you won't get a lot of sales regardless. There is no separate porn designation on Amazon. If they think it's porn (which usually implies visuals), they ban the book from the store and with repeat offenders (especially trying to sneak the book in under a different title with a different cover) may close the account.

You can see how I price by visiting http://www.amazon.com/Christa-Wick/e/B00684JIKK/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1 - I do pretty darn well between all of my stores (apple, amazon, barnes and noble, kobo and allromanceebooks.com).

Covers - Amazon is filtering a lot of erotica solely because of covers. Hand bras are a no-no. Something that looks in the act of undressing is a no-no (see my sexing major jones cover). Butt crack is a no-no, no clothes despite nothing showing is a no-no. It can either get your book filtered (meaning it won't come up in a general amazon store search, only a bookstore search).

Content - Apple, you want to be able to squeeze your way into Romance, NOT erotica. Their filter has jagged teeth and razor sharp claws and you want to stay out of the erotica category for discoverability purposes on Apple.

Titles - too egregious and you'll get filtered in most cases.

Filtering - in general, this is luck of the draw. You will wonder many a time, how did X not get filtered when my sedate, vanilla, clean title, clean cover did. LUCK OF THE DRAW. If you have a title published and you're wondering if it is Amazon filtered, (1) do a homepage search on it (filtered if it doesn't come up) or (2) go to http://www.salesrankexpress.com and put either author name in (lets you look at all books at once) or the title in - if there is a big red ADULT next to it, it is filtered.

(3) Any chance of talking TL into ebooks of the Flat Earth series I have hardcover early edition Delirium's Mistress, am waiting to buy your SE and would still buy an ebook version, too.  (You may remember me poking you on twitter : blush : )

ETA - skim through http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3503700 - unfortunately the thread was shut down because of trolls, but you can still read it. Hopefully you can see the OP, which is full of goodies.


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## Vanades (Aug 10, 2012)

Christa Wick said:


> Covers - Amazon is filtering a lot of erotica solely because of covers. Hand bras are a no-no. Something that looks in the act of undressing is a no-no (see my sexing major jones cover). Butt crack is a no-no, no clothes despite nothing showing is a no-no. It can either get your book filtered (meaning it won't come up in a general amazon store search, only a bookstore search).


Out of curiosity, what about pictures that show a woman dressed (bra or some kind of long-sleeved net-shirt) but where the nipples are visible through the material?


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, erotica sells better than some things and not as well as some other things. That's why I asked where you were getting your information from. I guess I'm still not exactly clear about what your goals and expectations are. I make a *ton* more money selling non-fiction, for instance; that's what supports my erotica habit, which I do for pleasure. If you really don't care at all what you write, I'd think a series of cozy mysteries would do better than erotica. At least you could advertise those on the major sites, and they wouldn't get filtered and blocked and all that.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> Vera
> 
> (1) As Tanith Lee's publisher, email me all the erotica questions you want -- especially if it will get Delirium's Mistress SE Hardback out faster.
> 
> ...


Thank you, thank you, thank you, for tons of wonderful info!

As far as your Tanith Lee questions, the main hangup right now is my scanning volunteer person has stopped scanning. I need an old paperback copy of Delirium's Mistress scanned in, so that I can go on from there and format it properly. I have no means of scanning these days.

As far as ebook editions of *Flat Earth*, it's not Tanith, it's me... All my fault. I have made a business decision of not handling my author's ebooks because of horrible ebook bookkeeping logistics (the rights are all theirs to do with as they please), but I am going to be helping Tanith get hers out at some point....

Anyway, if you know of someone who can volunteer to scan in Delirium's Mistress for me, we can have a new gorgeous print edition at last! Feel free to repost my request over at the Daughter of the Night forum there!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, Lyonesse, semi-transparent fabric displaying female nipples, m/f bottom, pubic mound or a penis can get you filtered. "Turgid" clothed penises can, too, and I wouldn't be surprised if a focus on a covered but very hard, noticeable female nipple would also get you filtered. 

Vera - was your volunteer using a regular scanner with OCR (optical character recognition)?


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## MercyFaulk (May 13, 2013)

Christa's advice is (as always) fantabulous! If you want a nice long list of kinks and fetishes, download my freebie book How to Find Free Erotica from...well, everywhere (see my sig). In the back is a huge, fat, throbbing list of kinks to inspire your dirty, filthy imagination.

The other piece of advice I would give you is to read, read, read. If something tickles your fancy (such as tickling!), search out a couple books in that subcat (preferably the bestselling of the bunch) and see how the subject is handled. You can also use my book to find tons of free reads for, um, "research"! My book might also show you WHY you could only find FSOG wannabes: The filter!

PS: What's hot right now? PseudoIncest (step relations), religious (don't spank me, father), shapeshifters (werewolves), multiple partners (three's company) and breeding/pregnancy/lactation. Of course there's tons more, but that list should keep you busy for a while.

PPS: Oh, and unless it's really pertinent to the story, condoms are _soooo_ not hot in short fantasy erotica. Erotic romance, yes; straight erotica, no! It's all about the fantasy, baby.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> Vera - was your volunteer using a regular scanner with OCR (optical character recognition)?


Yup.

But due to family circumstances, etc she had to stop in the middle of things. She is the one who scanned in *all* the other Tanith Lee titles for me, so she has been wonderful....


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

MercyFaulk said:


> Christa's advice is (as always) fantabulous! If you want a nice long list of kinks and fetishes, download my freebie book How to Find Free Erotica from...well, everywhere (see my sig). In the back is a huge, fat, throbbing list of kinks to inspire your dirty, filthy imagination.
> 
> The other piece of advice I would give you is to read, read, read. If something tickles your fancy (such as tickling!), search out a couple books in that subcat (preferably the bestselling of the bunch) and see how the subject is handled. You can also use my book to find tons of free reads for, um, "research"! My book might also show you *WHY you could only find FSOG wannabes: The filter!
> *
> ...


Just downloaded your book How to Find Erotica... awesome thanks!

Oh, and wow about the filter! That really explains it! I thought the filter was only in the main general search, not once you click on the erotica category. Why, that's rotten awful! GRRR!


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## MercyFaulk (May 13, 2013)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Just downloaded your book How to Find Erotica... awesome thanks!
> 
> Oh, and wow about the filter! That really explains it! *I thought the filter was only in the main general search*, not once you click on the erotica category. Why, that's rotten awful! GRRR!


Oops, yes this is correct. I didn't realized you'd drilled down. But it's hard to search effectively if you're not sure what you're searching for. That list in the back will help you narrow it down. Good luck, Vera!


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

If you copyright using the formal US Library of Congress method, you will have to connect your real name to the pen name, so there's no anonymity.

There is a way around this that is easy and simple and satisfies your requirements, and there is a specific IRS form for doing it.

First, you have to decide HOW anonymous you really want to be.

If you don't want friends and family to know, a simple pseudonym will suffice, but checks sent to you by publishers will be in your real name, and someone there might reveal you to someone who asks. And cashing/depositing them in person is a reveal.

You can set up a bank account for your pseudonym, and then the publisher does not know your real name and saves you there, but cashing/depositing the checks is still a reveal as you'll have to counter-sign the checks with your real name. And your Soc.Sec. number links to the real you.

The final option is to go to the IRS website and get the Doing Business As form. This is the form people use to set up businesses and to get separate Soc.Sec. numbers. Few people realize it, but you can use the same form to set up a pseudonym for yourself. The IRS internally links the two Soc.Sec. numbers so you needn't worry about reporting issues, the IRS will get the proper forms from publishers and you won't have any issues with forgetting to report income and having the IRS come after you. This method gets you a non-traceable-to-you Soc. Sec. number and a non-traceable-to-you name.

Go to a bank and set up an account for the pseudonym, get a debit card, and you are good to go. Mail in checks, make withdrawals, send and receive money, all using the pseudonym credentials. The only reveal is in the initial setup at the bank, and you can arrange to do that, in advance, with the bank president for maximum security.

As for copyright, the copyright is the same whether you use your real name or a pseudonym. Using the name Anonymous, however, is problematic and can backfire.

I've been doing this since 1980.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

The filter on Amazon should only be from the main page search. If you search within books, you should be fine. If I said anything that indicated otherwise, I misspoke. Apple, you can't really find an erotica category to search (you need to use the keyword erotica). Barnes and Noble, they push erotica authors as far down in the search results as they can. This really hurts some authors (who use common names). Lucky for me, no one out of erotica is crowding my search results on B&N. 

Let me find a general paperback I have hanging around or pick one up at goodwill when I'm dropping some furniture off tomorrow and see how my scanner feeds a cut PB. I have two scanners. If it scans well with the OCR and self-feeds (one of them should), I'll give it a go. I may be able to reformat my unplugged desktop and just leave it on auto-feed/scan so I don't need to do anything other than listen for page jams. 

Another option is a torrent copy. She can't violate her own copyright by downloading a torrent version but no one really wants to try that - I was tempted for about 15 minutes for a book I lost the original file on and didn't want to scan but quickly got scared away (not from a virus perspective - I was using a spare laptop I could immediately reformat - but from the worry my internet service provider would flag and close my account). Lucky for me, one of my friends still had the PDF.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

tkepner said:


> If you copyright using the formal US Library of Congress method, you will have to connect your real name to the pen name, so there's no anonymity.
> 
> There is a way around this that is easy and simple and satisfies your requirements, and there is a specific IRS form for doing it.
> 
> ...


Excellent tips, thank you.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> The filter on Amazon should only be from the main page search. If you search within books, you should be fine. If I said anything that indicated otherwise, I misspoke. Apple, you can't really find an erotica category to search (you need to use the keyword erotica). Barnes and Noble, they push erotica authors as far down in the search results as they can. This really hurts some authors (who use common names). Lucky for me, no one out of erotica is crowding my search results on B&N.
> 
> Let me find a general paperback I have hanging around or pick one up at goodwill when I'm dropping some furniture off tomorrow and see how my scanner feeds a cut PB. I have two scanners. If it scans well with the OCR and self-feeds (one of them should), I'll give it a go. I may be able to reformat my unplugged desktop and just leave it on auto-feed/scan so I don't need to do anything other than listen for page jams.
> 
> Another option is a torrent copy. She can't violate her own copyright by downloading a torrent version but no one really wants to try that - I was tempted for about 15 minutes for a book I lost the original file on and didn't want to scan but quickly got scared away (not from a virus perspective - I was using a spare laptop I could immediately reformat - but from the worry my internet service provider would flag and close my account). Lucky for me, one of my friends still had the PDF.


I actually considered a torrent copy, believe it or not, but got scared off by virus concerns -- I didn't even know about the account closing issue, wow....

good ting I did nto pursue it.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Here's a series that sells well:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00738T242/


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> Here's a series that sells well:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00738T242/


Wow!! An LOL too, but... wow!


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

Not all self published erotica sells well out of the gate. Mine barely sells at all, even though my traditionally published work sells quite well.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

portiadacosta said:


> Not all self published erotica sells well out of the gate. Mine barely sells at all, even though my traditionally published work sells quite well.


Boy, am I learning a lot today!

Really, had no idea... That is a bummer.


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm going to go against the grain on this one. While I always had an interest in erotica, I started writing it primarily because my horror stories just weren't selling and I had heard that it was easier to make money with erotica. Well, I'm glad I did. I went from making coffee change to a steady mid four figures every month. I do market research to see what sells and I write something similar. It has yet to fail me. I wrote a fifty shades knock off that consistently sells about 200 copies a month, which is pretty decent, imo. Out of the gate, it sold about 600 copies per month. A lot of the stuff I write, I'm not a big fan of. I agree that the whole dominant male thing isn't my cup of tea, but I still write it, and no one can tell that I don't actually enjoy writing it. Maybe I can fake it better than others. Who knows.

I personally use Selena Kitt's old erotica pricing model. It goes like this:

$0.99 > Short Shorts: Under 3k
$1.99 > Shorts: 3-7k
$2.99 > Stories: 7-15k
$3.99 > Novelettes: 15-35k
$4.99 > Novellas: 35-50k
$5.99 > Novels: 50-70k

You want to know what sells well in erotica right now, check out the top 20 best sellers. Off the top of my head, three of the best selling erotica topics right now are billionaires, rock stars, and werewolves.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

MarlaB said:


> I'm going to go against the grain on this one. While I always had an interest in erotica, I started writing it primarily because my horror stories just weren't selling and I had heard that it was easier to make money with erotica. Well, I'm glad I did. I went from making coffee change to a steady mid four figures every month. I do market research to see what sells and I write something similar. It has yet to fail me. *I wrote a fifty shades knock off that consistently sells about 200 copies a month*, which is pretty decent, imo. Out of the gate, it sold about 600 copies per month. A lot of the stuff I write, I'm not a big fan of. I agree that the whole dominant male thing isn't my cup of tea, but I still write it, and no one can tell that I don't actually enjoy writing it. Maybe I can fake it better than others. Who knows.
> 
> I personally use Selena Kitt's old erotica pricing model. It goes like this:
> 
> ...


Super helpful, thank you! 

*edited to add*

Is that 50 shades knockoff selling 200 copies a month one of a series or a standalone?


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

MarlaB said:


> I'm going to go against the grain on this one. While I always had an interest in erotica, I started writing it primarily because my horror stories just weren't selling and I had heard that it was easier to make money with erotica. Well, I'm glad I did. I went from making coffee change to a steady mid four figures every month. I do market research to see what sells and I write something similar. It has yet to fail me. I wrote a fifty shades knock off that consistently sells about 200 copies a month, which is pretty decent, imo. Out of the gate, it sold about 600 copies per month. A lot of the stuff I write, I'm not a big fan of. I agree that the whole dominant male thing isn't my cup of tea, but I still write it, and no one can tell that I don't actually enjoy writing it. Maybe I can fake it better than others. Who knows.
> 
> I personally use Selena Kitt's old erotica pricing model. It goes like this:
> 
> ...


How do you get the books noticed? Do you promo or just put them out there? Any special things you do, other than just write a good book?


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

portiadacosta said:


> How do you get the books noticed? Do you promo or just put them out there? Any special things you do, other than just write a good book?


I think we'd all like to know the answer to that one, LOL!

One of my m/m erotica shorts sold 45 copies on its first day at allromance, then sales dwindled a bit to around 8-10 a quarter, if that. This month allromance have revampted their categories and the book is now in the gay erotica category as one of the highest customer rated books, and sales have started taking off again - I sold over 30 of that title this quarter. So maybe it's a case of finding the right niche for it? I don't really know.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> One of my m/m erotica shorts sold 45 copies on its first day at allromance, then sales dwindled a bit to around 8-10 a quarter, if that.


This seems typical for ARe. I did great there with my m/m series while I was introducing new books, but now that they're all out there, sales have dropped to very little. I've heard other people say they had similar experiences.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2013)

Vera Nazarian said:


> But my question is, specifically, after BDSM, what else is really *popular* on Kindle erotica?
> 
> And to add to that, how much *humor* is a turn off? I'd love to do dysfunctional / weird / fetish / humorous sex stuff, but want to maintain the sexy mood for the reader....


Vera,

Perhaps I can help. After all, only a woman knows what women like...  LOL

I ventured into erotica almost 20 months ago.

There was one thing that turned me on... the stuff that REALLY turns me on in real life. F/F stuff.

When I went into it, everyone else was writing M/M stuff because a lot of straight women apparently find that hot. (Much as men find F/F stuff hot, I guess?)

Shortly after that, the billionaire BDSM stuff became "where the money's at" in erotica, largely due to 50 Shades and all its copycats.

But I decided the only way for me to know that my erotica was a turn-on was if it turned ME on.

At the time, there wasn't a lot of F/F stuff out there and anyone I talked to about it said, "F/F doesn't sell because not enough women buy it."

But I figured writing what turned me on was my best shot to not look stupid in carrying it off.

So that's what I did... I wrote F/F stuff. About a dozen works (9 shorts and three collections) over a six-month period.

I reached a point where I was closing in on $300 or so a month.

Then I hit a breaking point where I was burned out. My stories felt repetitive to me, and I stopped writing for almost a year.

Now I'm back at it, about to launch a one-off short and a novella that's the start of a series. I'm adding more plot to it and making the hot stuff hot, but less of the sole focus.

Will it work? Can I regain my lost momentum on that sort of stuff?

I hope so... but lots of folks predicted I'd fall on my face with F/F to begin with, so I'm just gonna listen to my... *instincts* ... write what turns ME on, and let the cards fall where they may.

So, my advice to you?

Forget about what's popular right at the moment. If you want to write erotica, write the sort of erotica that turns you on.

You'll be surprised how many others it turns on, too.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2013)

portiadacosta said:


> How do you get the books noticed? Do you promo or just put them out there? Any special things you do, other than just write a good book?


I have a free blog on blogspot. And I Twitter a little. (Sounds naughtier than it is.)

The rest is just trying to write a story that is both hot and interesting. (I'm probably stupid that way... I try to make my characters have some depth to them, they're not just two names who meet and suddenly start


Spoiler



enjoying a malt


 together.)

That's all I do...

Oh, and I made my first story, BLISS KISS, perma-free and most of my books spent their first six months of life in KDP exclusively.

I update BLISS KISS regularly with fresh back-matter to promote my latest releases.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

tkepner said:


> If you copyright using the formal US Library of Congress method, you will have to connect your real name to the pen name, so there's no anonymity.


If all she's concerned about is the general public finding out the name through the US Library of Congress Copyright Office search process, then she can absolutely keep her real name out of it. You do NOT have to reveal your legal name on the Form TX. You can put your pseudonym as long as you state it as such.

However, if you're concerned about retailers or publishers knowing the real name of the author using the pen name, then yes, you'll need to take additional steps as you suggested in your post. But the DBA method as you suggested will in fact reveal your real name in county records. If you really, really want to keep it more private, then you could form an LLC or S-corp with a registered agent, but that costs more.



tkepner said:


> As for copyright, the copyright is the same whether you use your real name or a pseudonym.


The protection is the same, but the term (length) of protection is different. For works in your own name, it's life of the author plus 70 years. For pseudonymous, anonymous, and work-for-hire, it's a flat term of 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation (whichever is shorter).

For example, I'm 36. I certainly hope I'm going to live at least another 25 years, so assuming that I do, I'd geet a longer term of protection if I used my own name. However, realistically it isn't going to matter because the liklihood of my works still being economicall viable 95 years from now, let alone longer than 95 years from now is extremely low, so I am essentially going with a shorter term of protection in exchange for my privacy.

Disclosure: I'm a fed gov't intellectual property attorney who has previously worked for the US Copyright Office. I am not a tax attorney or accountant. I am providing information rather than legal advice.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> But the DBA method as you suggested will in fact reveal your real name in county records.


I registered my pen names with my city, as required by law here. A few months later I found myself receiving mail (like credit card offers) under those names, which would be awkward if I didn't want a spouse or roommate to know about them. As far as I can tell, though, I am legally obligated to file those names with the city even if I were writing as a corporation.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

MegHarris said:


> As far as I can tell, though, I am legally obligated to file those names with the city even if I were writing as a corporation.


Yes, but with an LLC or S-Corp you might have greater ability to keep a bigger barrier or privacy, especially if you use a registered agent (some prefer to incorporate in a different state than they live in for tax purposes). Always consult with an account and/or attorney before making decisions on incoporation.

I am receiving solicitations at my address on file that is being sent to my pen name. Personally, I'm not terribly concerned about keeping an absolute wall of privacy (like the OP is), so it wasn't a concern for me, but just know that you will start receiving these offers.


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Is that 50 shades knockoff selling 200 copies a month one of a series or a standalone?


It's a series of shorts. There are 3 parts. The first part is free. The other two parts are $2.99 a piece. I also bundled it all together, which I sell for $3.99. But I don't link any of the single works to the bundle. Each part is 10k words. The 200 copies a month was for all parts combined, just on Amazon. On all retailers combined, it sells close to 1,000 copies a month and makes up the largest part of my income. Apple is the biggest performer for this particular series. I'm actually working on the sequel right now, which was requested by fans, since unlike in Fifty Shades, the protagonist does not end up with the handsome billionaire in the end. So now I'm building off his story.



portiadacosta said:


> How do you get the books noticed? Do you promo or just put them out there? Any special things you do, other than just write a good book?


The only marketing I do is adding a link to my mailing list at the back of all of my books. I currently have a list of a little over 300 subscribers, which provides a nice sales bump anytime I write something new. Other than that, I make sure I put out one short story a week, usually between 5,000 - 10,000 words, depending on the genre. Often I can squeeze out two a week. It typically takes me 3 days to write, edit, design a cover for, and publish 10,000 words. I think that constantly producing new work has been the key to my success. I currently have 82 titles published, which is a combination of shorts, bundles, and one novel.

When I first started out, I tried to do all of the marketing stuff. I submitted my books to all the different book announcement sites. I had a blog, Twitter, and Facebook that I kept up with. Overall, I think that probably got me one or two extra sales a month. Focusing on writing more was what worked for me. Your mileage my very. There are a lot of people who market their books and are successful with it. For me, it was just a waste of time.

Also, for all of my series, (I write primarily series and serials) I always make the first book perma-free. Out of 82 titles, 13 of those are free. It really does help drive sales to the rest of the series.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Portia - re getting found

1. Hot niche you feel you can do justice to - When I started this pen name back in October 2011, I was inspired by Gia Blue & Lolli Love's ranking (Gia had a title at 585 or so) and price scale (2.99 at lengths as short at 5k and usually in the 5k-11k range - doable in a weekend of balls to the wall writing, cover and editing after 70 hour work weeks on the EDJ). Their niche was Pseudo-Incest. : pauses and waits for the drop and flop from the peanut gallery to cease :

2. High production - for the first three months, I was releasing about 1 a week. In March 2012, I think I had 4 titles on the first page of the HNR (or 3 front and one top of 2d page). The 3 months of titles were all under 15k (if not all under 10k). I have since slowed down my release rate and usually aim for 20k at a minimum.

3. Early branding - After seeing Siren dominate the HNR with their red side stripes, I instituted my own side stripe and it really stood out in the also bots (back when they were right below the price/buy button and thus more influential), telling potential buyers that, once you buy a Christa Wick title, you'll be back for more. It also stood out on those occasions when I had multiple titles in the HNR or E100 at the same time. I've moved away from that because limiting the real estate of a cover that way limits the cover itself and I wanted to give object covers a go (object cover result = meh).

4. Smart titles - starting with the PI. PI readers are looking for stepdaddy stories, stepbrother stories, stepsister stories, stepmom stories. Did I title my PI "His Secret Sharer" and drop boat references and name the daddy Conrad or something? No, I titled it Saturdays with Daddy, Stay Daddy Stay, Riding with Brother and so on.

When I moved onto BBW, (1) all my titles have Curve/Curves/etc in it - may seem like pulp fiction, but my readers and I are just fine with that  (2) I had a parenthetical of "Big Girls Next Door." When my sales dipped in July, I poured over other titles in my BBW niche and saw they were doing something new - SEO parentheticals (BBW, Billionaire, etc.). So I went and switched my titles to "soft" parentheticals, such as (Paranormal BBW Erotic Romance) and (Billionaire BBW Erotic Romance). (Cf. Taken by XYZ (menage, threesome, alien, tentacles, abduction, rough sex) - which I don't have a problem with but some retailers do and so I prefer to softly tread on the booksellers preferences rather than skip across them in 5in stilettos). You can do even softer, more creative subtitles or titles as long as you get keywords in one or both parts of your title. Lots of people think Titles have no more SEO juice on Amazon and competitors than the description. I disagree. Also, when I added these to a poor selling alt pen name, sales picked up dramatically for those pen names for a couple of months.

5. Originally - LOOK AT ME covers. This is now a finer line to tread with the filters and if one has aspirations to NYT/USA Today best seller status.

6. Description - Your cover & title have garnered attention. Congratulations! Now, what's your description like? Me, I want the reader to start breathing a little heavier from the description alone. Here is Smoke & Curves volume 1



> Plus-size secretary Mia James doesn't consider her resume's omission of the last two years of undergrad and her master's degree a lie. It's more like a failure to elaborate.
> 
> Too bad her billionaire boss disagrees.
> 
> ...


7. Excerpt - (ETA - put an excerpt on the product page below the description). What, not all readers use the look inside? Yeah, not all readers look inside - it takes time to click. Your cover and title bought you the click and 5 or so extra seconds. The first lines of your description bought you the time to read the description and 5 seconds of a look inside if the reader doesn't have to navigate and click a button and, OMG, wait for the screen to pop up and does it pop up where the reader wants it to or on the copyright....

Not to mention the look inside isn't immediately available and a solid first first week of sales on Amazon are more important to the algorithm in my experience than a solid week of sales 3 months later. Make your excerpt as bold as the retailer will allow.

8. Be *BOLD* in all aspects - Truth is, not all erotica sells even though the meat (story/writing) of it is the same, just the skin (title, cover, description, excerpt) is different. I have gorgeous erotica under another pen name, with tasteful covers, discreet titles, far more interesting (to me) plots, etc. That b!tch only earned me 5k of my 85k on Amazon last year, with more titles through half of the year than my CW name and a publishing history that included both NY and large erotica epublishers. CW started publishing in a vacuum. She had no platform, no followers, no friends in industry (except for 2 people, the people who know me as Pen Name X don't know I'm Christa and vice versa and they weren't promoting Christa).

So how did I earn 100k last year writing when the most I'd earned in a prior year in royalties was 6k and my writing/cover skills didn't suddenly improve dramatically?

I started bold (and fast!). We like to call what we do "erotica" - but some of it is "smut" or "sex writing" to use a less controversial term (I proudly wear both a smut and erotica badge  ). Up to a certain level, most SMUT (IMO) sells better than most erotica. But the best erotica (especially erotic romance) will go higher than the best SMUT. The great thing is - you can do both, even under the same pen name. Those writers looking for a consistent monthly income that is good but not NYT/USA level sales, may find it in SMUT that advertises itself as such - bold covers, bold (smart) titles, bold descriptions, bold excerpts that all work together to say,



> Hello, I'm Jane Author and I'm here to get you off.


9. F$ck Marketing - Just Write (and diversify - ebook/audio/print). I have a website (wickedchrista.com) for new releases, the occasional what's coming soon, and two personal notes total. I have a twitter /wickedchrista (and /christawick for what feeds into my Amazon author central page and I try to limit to official only except when I forget and respond to an interaction). I have two facebooks (/christa.wick.1 and the page /curvebooks - and a second web site curvebooks.com). I actively manage my goodreads book listings (or did - looks like most changes are now only in the hands of librarians) and my authorcentral page. But how much of my publisher time is spent on all of this marketing/social presence in comparison to my writing time? 5%? Maybe less. There's no additional percentage allocated out to contests, bookbub, ENT, POI, blog tours, ads, etc., because I don't do them. I just started a mail list because I want to conquer the Amazon top 100. I wish I had done so sooner. Right now, it's not taking more than a few minutes to manage. But I do want to do create some "cut" scenes and additional lures for signing up, which will initially be non-productive time in terms of getting a new title out -- but even those scenes I will leverage out into a money making product at a later point.

That's my 2 cents. YMMV.


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## Stuffeshead (Jan 19, 2011)

OMG.  Christa's post is making my head swim.

I'm just learning how to put together a basic story and get it on KDP.  I haven't even begun to think about SEOs and parentheticals, and Twitter feed into KDP Author page, etc.

Does everyone learn all this technical mumbo-jumbo, or do folks hire people to do all those things

Stuffeshead


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

Christa Wick said:


> 2. High production - for the first three months, I was releasing about 1 a week. In March 2012, I think I had 4 titles on the first page of the HNR (or 3 front and one top of 2d page). The 3 months of titles were all under 15k (if not all under 10k). I have since slowed down my release rate and usually aim for 20k at a minimum.


What made you switch to a 20k word minimum, out of curiosity?

And I second that hints to the genre need to be in the title of the book or in parenthesis besides it.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2013)

Christa - that post should be a Sticky *ASAP*!

So much great info, thank you


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I'm just learning how to put together a basic story and get it on KDP. I haven't even begun to think about SEOs and parentheticals, and Twitter feed into KDP Author page, etc.
> 
> Does everyone learn all this technical mumbo-jumbo, or do folks hire people to do all those things


Start with what you can handle. I have nice basic websites based on Blogger (you might prefer Wordpress), either of which is fairly basic and easy to update regularly-- necessary if you're going to be writing a lot of stuff. There are templates, and it's easy to get a site set up (you do need to buy your own domain, which is not expensive, and you might want to have a professional banner done too). Twitter isn't hard; you're probably familiar with it already, but if you're not, set yourself up there. The best advice I can give you is to not promote all the time; people don't read Twitter to see an endless stream of promos. Twitter should be more chatty. You can also do a blog if you want to (again, I do mine on Blogger). It's really very easy to get your blog and Twitter feeds onto your KDP author page once they're set up.

Start at the beginning and go on from there. An easy website and a Twitter feed are good places to start, and set up your KDP author page in Author Central as well. Don't panic-- eventually this will all make perfect sense to you. I promise!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

MarlaB said:


> What made you switch to a 20k word minimum, out of curiosity?
> 
> And I second that hints to the genre need to be in the title of the book or in parenthesis besides it.


In large part because of Amazon/Apple & filters. An erotica writer doesn't know when the hammer is going to come down on a fetish - tentacles suddenly banned or PI banned. Apple may kicks us off altogether and their filter is VERY effective in making sure people who want what you're writing cannot find it.

So, when Paypal in February 2012 started doing scary things to the notable smaller estores (like Smashwords, ARe, etc.) because of PI and I knew I wanted to quit my EDJ - I looked around and saw BBW was trending up. I did a few shorts to test reception (my BBW novel under another name with a respected epublisher sank like the Titanic, only 100x faster). However, I do not do "size as a fetish" BBW erotica. Which meant I had to lean closer to really hot, graphic, erotic romance, which meant I had to go a little longer, not just because the audience prefers it, but there's more than sex fueling the word count.

The remaining part is really about staying power. I think the longer you engage a reader at a given time, the more your world remains with them. The more your world remains with the reader, the more likely they are to come back for more, tell friends, etc. As I said upthread. Good smut can sell faster than an equivalently good piece of erotica, but better erotica will outsell the better smut (IMO). However, this doesn't mean an author has to put aside shorts because you can get this immersion in serials and in connected worlds.


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

Christa Wick said:


> Good smut can sell faster than an equivalently good piece of erotica, but better erotica will outsell the better smut (IMO). However, this doesn't mean an author has to put aside shorts because you can get this immersion in serials and in connected worlds.


I tend to take the serial approach and then combine my serials into a full novel in the end. Usually, I try to keep my erotic romance in the 10k region. I was just curious if writing slightly longer works fueled more sales. I assume it definitely helps curve the 1 star reviews over length, which is one of the reasons why I frequently consider it.

I did an experiment not too long ago where I wrote a novel and divided it into serials. The sequel to it, I published as a completed novel (which could have been read as part of the series or a stand alone). The novel that was serialized made a lot more profit than the one that was published as a completed novel, which is why I've decided to stick with serializing.

Sometimes I'm tempted to write longer works. There's a part of me that feels like I'm missing something by not doing it. Probably the best seller list. It's a lot harder to push short stories up that chart than it is novels, it seems.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Stuffeshead said:


> ...Does everyone learn all this technical mumbo-jumbo, or do folks hire people to do all those things
> 
> Stuffeshead


At some point I may wish to hire someone. Right now, aside from the stock photographers' whose images I buy to make my covers, I am 100% self-produced: writing, copy/editing, formatting, cover, up load, marketing, etc.

There are a lot of pitfalls in hiring someone and you cannot control all of them. You can be diligent and smart in your hiring, but that doesn't mean you'll get competent or honest, etc. You will get a ton of propaganda/sales pitches saying how it is essential to hire someone for everything but the writing otherwise you'll be part of the self-published rubbish. Don't take as gospel what non-self publishers tell you you have to do. (IMO don't take anything as gospel, there are many paths to success.)

My SOP is hire what I cannot learn to do for myself in a reasonably short time or what I cannot competently do for myself. I may be deluding myself, but I think I do it all competently. For others, the biggest outside help comes from a professional cover artist (while I do my own covers, I like to look to goonwrite.com for inspiration as well as the top 100 in my genre lists).

I would recommend you visit creativepenn.com - she has a free download (puts you on a mail list, which isn't excessive or at all spammy) for newbies. She has a ton of podcasts on a wide variety of issues (like SEO) and is charming to listen to. Also, yesterday I discovered biztegra.com and listened to a great webinar by them. I would sign up and watch the June 12 webinar when they post it and mine their site for other goodies!

*MariaB*



> Sometimes I'm tempted to write longer works. There's a part of me that feels like I'm missing something by not doing it. Probably the best seller list.


That is exactly how I feel re novella versus novel difference.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> At some point I may wish to hire someone. Right now, aside from the stock photographers' whose images I buy to make my covers, I am 100% self-produced: writing, copy/editing, formatting, cover, up load, marketing, etc.


I hire other people to do my covers, because I'm not of an artistic bent and I felt that the ones I produced on my own weren't adequately professional. Clearly this varies from person to person, but for me, it's worth it. I buy premades and write stories to fit quite a lot. There are a lot of affordable premades out there-- look around these boards and you'll see threads featuring them. I agree with Christa that Go On Write has a lot of good ones available.

I also pay my college-aged daughter to do my formatting, because formatting drives me up the metaphorical wall, whereas it takes her about twenty minutes . There are people out there who will format fairly inexpensively, too.


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

This is an absolutely fascinating thread that I'm riveted to. I really appreciate everyone sharing their tips and strategies. I have so much to learn.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> ...But the DBA method as you suggested will in fact reveal your real name in county records.


Sorry Amanda, but the IRS does NOT share IRS forms with ANY county or state government body. The only way you could show up in county records is if you file county records yourself. There used to be a form designed expressly for the purpose of authors wanting to use pseudonyms but it was dropped in favor of the DBA IRS form as doing the exact same thing.

By Federal Law the IRS is prohibited from sharing ANY information with other agencies.


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## Dormouse (Nov 10, 2012)

Alex Jace said:


> This is an absolutely fascinating thread that I'm riveted to. I really appreciate everyone sharing their tips and strategies. I have so much to learn.


Seconded. Thank you all for sharing information and being so open about what worked for you and what didn't. 

I'm now really tempted to try some BBW, because while I like my men muscular I like my women lush and with generous curves . Maybe I could do vampires and lush adult women. I just like vampires (the non-sparkly, non-emo kind) more than werewolves.


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## Dormouse (Nov 10, 2012)

AuthorDianaBaron said:


> Me too. Non-sparkling vamires are HOT!... and you won't get fur stuck in your teeth...


 And they don't depend on the moon. I wonder what werewolves call their *moontime* 

While I prefer my vamps, I have to admit that Tyler Hoechlin makes a very nice wolf on Teen Wolf .


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

tkepner said:


> Sorry Amanda, but the IRS does NOT share IRS forms with ANY county or state government body. The only way you could show up in county records is if you file county records yourself. There used to be a form designed expressly for the purpose of authors wanting to use pseudonyms but it was dropped in favor of the DBA IRS form as doing the exact same thing.
> 
> By Federal Law the IRS is prohibited from sharing ANY information with other agencies.


Interesting. 12 years around tax and I had never heard of an IRS dba. Wish I had! Considering I had far more reason to know of it than an IP attorney, I'm thinking Amanda was speaking only of local DBAs, and they will expose you in a heartbeat. I found a page referencing IRS DBA on the IRS site, but it's just a passing reference. *TK, could you share more info with us? *I'm really interested because I have other names I want to run through Apple without another LLC. If the IRS DBA does that for me (I don't have a requirement in my county or state to register a local DBA), that would be awesome!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> Vera,
> 
> Perhaps I can help. After all, only a woman knows what women like...  LOL
> 
> ...


Excellent advice, thank you!

I am definitely thinking now along the lines of what I want to do that; sexy for me, and I think I do have an idea that will also dip into the popular stuff.

Last night I downloaded tons of freebies (since I cannot afford even cheap paid ebooks now) of billionaires, rock stars and werewolves erotica to see how they are handled, and am meanwhile starting work on my own "unique" angle.

This is all good, so glad we're having this discussion, thank you!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> I have a free blog on blogspot. And I Twitter a little. (Sounds naughtier than it is.)
> 
> The rest is just trying to write a story that is both hot and interesting. (I'm probably stupid that way... I try to make my characters have some depth to them, they're not just two names who meet and suddenly start
> 
> ...


I just downloaded BLISS KISS!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Amanda Brice said:


> If all she's concerned about is the general public finding out the name through the US Library of Congress Copyright Office search process, then she can absolutely keep her real name out of it. You do NOT have to reveal your legal name on the Form TX. You can put your pseudonym as long as you state it as such.
> 
> However, if you're concerned about retailers or publishers knowing the real name of the author using the pen name, then yes, you'll need to take additional steps as you suggested in your post. But the DBA method as you suggested will in fact reveal your real name in county records. If you really, really want to keep it more private, then you could form an LLC or S-corp with a registered agent, but that costs more.
> 
> ...


Fortunately I am fine with just basic anonymity -- in other words, I don't want to have to put the (c) Copyright by Vera Nazarian line inside the ebook front matter itself, that's the extent of it.

However, I *DO* want to have a solid way to prove it's my own work and have copyright protection.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

MarlaB said:


> It's a series of shorts. There are 3 parts. The first part is free. The other two parts are $2.99 a piece. I also bundled it all together, which I sell for $3.99. But I don't link any of the single works to the bundle. Each part is 10k words. The 200 copies a month was for all parts combined, just on Amazon. On all retailers combined, it sells close to 1,000 copies a month and makes up the largest part of my income. Apple is the biggest performer for this particular series. I'm actually working on the sequel right now, which was requested by fans, since unlike in Fifty Shades, the protagonist does not end up with the handsome billionaire in the end. So now I'm building off his story.


Okay, this sounds perfect, in fact exactly what I had in mind, the 3 (or even 4 parts), at that length with that price and first being perma-free strategy, yaay!

I know exactly what I'm gonna do! *dancing in the chair*



MarlaB said:


> The only marketing I do is adding a link to my mailing list at the back of all of my books. I currently have a list of a little over 300 subscribers, which provides a nice sales bump anytime I write something new. Other than that, I make sure I put out one short story a week, usually between 5,000 - 10,000 words, depending on the genre. Often I can squeeze out two a week. It typically takes me 3 days to write, edit, design a cover for, and publish 10,000 words. I think that constantly producing new work has been the key to my success. I currently have 82 titles published, which is a combination of shorts, bundles, and one novel.
> 
> When I first started out, I tried to do all of the marketing stuff. I submitted my books to all the different book announcement sites. I had a blog, Twitter, and Facebook that I kept up with. Overall, I think that probably got me one or two extra sales a month. Focusing on writing more was what worked for me. Your mileage my very. There are a lot of people who market their books and are successful with it. For me, it was just a waste of time.
> 
> Also, for all of my series, (I write primarily series and serials) I always make the first book perma-free. Out of 82 titles, 13 of those are free. It really does help drive sales to the rest of the series.


Oh, this is soooo helpful! Thank you!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> Portia - re getting found
> 
> That's my 2 cents. YMMV.


Sniping an awesome post.

Crista, I think I love you. Thank you for sharing this, this!!!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

AlixNowarra said:


> And they don't depend on the moon. I wonder what werewolves call their *moontime*
> 
> While I prefer my vamps, I have to admit that Tyler Hoechlin makes a very nice wolf on Teen Wolf .


Okay, since I also totally prefer vampires to werewolves, and would much rather write them then the furry/hairies, my question is, *which one is truly hotter in written erotica NOW?*

Vamp or were?


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Okay, since I also totally prefer vampires to werewolves, and would much rather write them then the furry/hairies, my question is, *which one is truly hotter in written erotica NOW?*
> 
> Vamp or were?


Werewolves.


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## Dormouse (Nov 10, 2012)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Okay, since I also totally prefer vampires to werewolves, and would much rather write them then the furry/hairies, my question is, *which one is truly hotter in written erotica NOW?*
> 
> Vamp or were?


Based on the new releases that I'm seeing were seem to be hotter and more in demand right now, especially the whole alpha-thing. But that's mainly m/m erotic romance and paranormal romance. Not sure about m/f erotica.

Vampires will return, I'm sure of that but I guess after Twilight and all the emo-vamps books published in the aftermath, people just are a bit tired of vamps. Vampire fiction seems to be on the downward arm of the curve right now but will sometime rise up again, just like they've done before. I've seen people call vampire fiction dead (as they've done before), but we are talking about the undead, so they will rise again .


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

MarlaB said:


> Werewolves.


Okay. Got it.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

AlixNowarra said:


> Based on the new releases that I'm seeing were seem to be hotter and more in demand right now, especially the whole alpha-thing. But that's mainly m/m erotic romance and paranormal romance. Not sure about m/f erotica.
> 
> Vampires will return, I'm sure of that but I guess after Twilight and all the emo-vamps books published in the aftermath, people just are a bit tired of vamps. Vampire fiction seems to be on the downward arm of the curve right now but will sometime rise up again, just like they've done before. I've seen people call vampire fiction dead (as they've done before), but we are talking about the undead, so they will rise again .


Okay, good info!


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

Pfffft vamps sell just fine. You'll make money with vamps. Just study the market and copy the cover styles.

Do both for optimum sales, readers will cross into other areas of paranormal.

Oddly, I came to UF  as a reader b/c of the vampires, but I prefer to write shapeshifters. Did not see that coming.

Also my rule was three stories for each sub genre. So three wolf stories, three vamp stories. Makes a big difference if one breaks out...you have insta back list ready for all those eager readers.

M


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

This has got to be one of the most useful and enlightening threads (especially for me, since I'm a secret writer of this genre). I've a question: isn't PI or outright incest banned on Amazon? I ask because a few of you have mentioned PI, and I just finished reading Tabitha Suzuma's 'Forbidden' and it's allll incest, yet it's selling like hot cakes on Amazon. How come?

Edited to switch verb.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I've a question: isn't PI or outright incest banned on Amazon? I ask because a few of you have mentioned PI, and I just finished reading Tabitha Suzuma's 'Forbidden' and it's allll incest, yet it's selling like hot cakes on Amazon. How come?


Probably because it was released by a major publisher. "Forbidden" topics (heh) tend to apply to indies only. But also, I see it's labeled "love and romance." The topic of incest is (I think) allowable if it doesn't involve sex for titillation, i.e., if it isn't erotica. I can't tell if this has erotic content or not (it appears to be YA, so I assume not), but I do think Amazon will let pretty much anything from a major publisher slide by, even if it might never be accepted if self-published.


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## iheartwords (Jun 12, 2013)

PI is allowed at Amazon, but actual incest isn't (not in the Erotica category anyway.)


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

MegHarris said:


> Probably because it was released by a major publisher. "Forbidden" topics (heh) tend to apply to indies only. But also, I see it's labeled "love and romance." The topic of incest is (I think) allowable if it doesn't involve sex for titillation, i.e., if it isn't erotica. I can't tell if this has erotic content or not (it appears to be YA, so I assume not), but I do think Amazon will let pretty much anything from a major publisher slide by, even if it might never be accepted if self-published.


I definitely do NOT recommend that book for young adults! It's got Heavy Issues and blatant descriptions of intimacy (no fade-to-black going on there!) between two full-blooded teenaged siblings. I'm annoyed and dismayed they've classified this book as YA, to be honest. I suppose they did it because the MCs are teenagers, but the theme of the book is not fitting for teenagers, IMHO.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's disappointing that there's so much hypocrisy going on. If it's good enough for the trads, why exclude the self-pubs?  Ah, well. One day...



iheartwords said:


> PI is allowed at Amazon, but actual incest isn't (not in the Erotica category anyway.)


Thanks for letting me know!


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

Some superb advice in this thread. Have printed out several of the posts for my 'things to do when I'm out from under deadlines and am feeling better' file. Many thanks!


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> Interesting. 12 years around tax and I had never heard of an IRS dba. Wish I had! Considering I had far more reason to know of it than an IP attorney, I'm thinking Amanda was speaking only of local DBAs, and they will expose you in a heartbeat. I found a page referencing IRS DBA on the IRS site, but it's just a passing reference. *TK, could you share more info with us? *I'm really interested because I have other names I want to run through Apple without another LLC. If the IRS DBA does that for me (I don't have a requirement in my county or state to register a local DBA), that would be awesome!


This explains in excruciating details the the whys and the wherefors: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1635.pdf
Oddly, it doesn't mention pseudonyms for writers, but an IRS agent was the one who sent me to the dba (originally called Form SS-4 back in 1980) as a solution.

The actual form is now called an EIN (Employer Identification Number). Got to www.irs.gov and type "ein" in the search field. The first item returned should be: "Apply for an Employer Identification Number" Select it and go!

Because the form is now called EIN It isn't really a DBA as defined in local ordinances, you shouldn't have to register it with anyone else except as a social security number for your pseudonym to people who need it to report to the IRS.

P.S. It's also a wonderful way to re-establish credit under a new SS# should you go through bankruptcy. Cuts the trail completely, you start out completely from scratch. The only qualifier is that you can't do this for the purpose of committing fraud. The IRS is absolutely unforgiving if you do this with the intent of committing a fraud.

Hey, there's a story line for you!


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

tkepner said:


> Sorry Amanda, but the IRS does NOT share IRS forms with ANY county or state government body. The only way you could show up in county records is if you file county records yourself. There used to be a form designed expressly for the purpose of authors wanting to use pseudonyms but it was dropped in favor of the DBA IRS form as doing the exact same thing.
> 
> By Federal Law the IRS is prohibited from sharing ANY information with other agencies.


Interesting! I'd actually read your previous post and didn't catch that you were talking about an "IRS DBA" but rather assumed you were referring to the state DBA forms. Now I'm Googling because I'd never heard of an IRS DBA before. Thanks!


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

tkepner said:


> Because the form is now called EIN It isn't really a DBA as defined in local ordinances, you shouldn't have to register it with anyone else except as a social security number for your pseudonym to people who need it to report to the IRS.


Aha...yes, this explains why I'd never heard of an IRS DBA.

Anyway, just FYI, but Amazon's KDP system doesn't seem to have a way to accept the EIN in lieu of a SS number for sole proprietors. I have an EIN as a sole proprietor (and have for several months now), but despite multiple emails to KDP Support, it still won't accept it as a valid tax ID number. Their system only accepts it for partnerships, LLCs, and corporations. Something in the way they're set up seems to think sole proprietors can only have SS numbers, which is wrong.

Anyway, as Christa stated, DBAs are a state law thing. The IRS does not issue a DBA, but rather you can get an EIN.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Interesting, TK. I thought you might, indeed, be talking about an EIN.

I'm going to look into this some more from the anonymity perspective. I already have 2 LLCs, one I did not get an EIN for and one I did. Neither protects my identity because of the LLC filings. And a local DBA (ours are registered by county) wouldn't keep my identity private either. Since I'm selling fiction digitally online, I don't need a DBA or an LLC where I live. *<-- *this varies by the jurisdiction you live in, even the county you live in. (Whenever you hear "I absolutely know X applies" always confirm against your country, state, county, even city, rules! The person may be 100% right for where they live, but following their advice where you live could cost a lot of $, heartache, maybe even jail time depending on the activity!)

So it's a matter of (a) will the IRS allow me, in applying for an EIN, to put in a fictitious name (again, I've done this, but I had a RL legal entity name (my LLC) to put in) for which no state filing of the entity name has occurred, (b) will the platform accept the fictitious name and EIN, (c) does my local jurisdiction require under all the circumstances for me to have a real entity filing in state, either a dba, llc, or other form, (d) will a bank allow me to establish an account for the name used on the EIN, in conjunction with the EIN - what proof do I need to open the account, etc.? On (b) I'm assuming most will if you start with it - I'm wondering if Amanda's issue with KDP is that her account started out as Real Name, Real SSN. I have heard people say KDP or Pubit (don't remember, might be both) will not allow you to change your tax information after you establish your account. One POTENTIAL work around is a second account (not allowed, but if it is your entity doing this, maybe it's not a second account, and you're doing it for a short time period, then the first account goes bye-bye) and (a) you assign ISBNs to the books under Account #1 and give it time for the system to absorb the new ISBNs, (b) you unpub the book and pub it under account #2 with the same ISBN. Then see if the rank and ratings roll over. I'm 99.99% certain the ratings will, no idea if the rank will.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> I'm wondering if Amanda's issue with KDP is that her account started out as Real Name, Real SSN. I have heard people say KDP or Pubit (don't remember, might be both) will not allow you to change your tax information after you establish your account.


KDP will absolutely let you change your tax reporting info after you've established your account (it's PubIt and now Nook Press that will not). The people I know who have been able to switch from a SS number to an EIN all changed their entity status as well, however. (In other words, went from a individual filing as a sole proprietor to a corporation, for instance.) I didn't switch my legal entity formation -- I'm remaining an individual filing as a sole proprietor. I'm simply formally doing business as Amanda Brice now.

I'm sure if I really wanted to push the issue they could find a way to fix it, but it looks like it would involve recoding which they don't want to do (the problem that was flagged is that the length of the SS number is different from that of the EIN, so the computer system sees it as a matching problem). So I haven't bothered to push the issue farther than pointing out to them that they are incorrect in their assertion that an individual cannot legally have a EIN. Because I do.


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## Stuffeshead (Jan 19, 2011)

Not that there are many on the KBoards who live in MS like me, but anonymity is especially hard here.  As an attorney who handles business matters on a regular basis, many of my clients wish to form LLCs to avoid disclosing their personal involvement in certain business activities.  In years past, that was easy, and an LLC was the perfect vehicle for that.

MS adopted a revised LLC Act, which changed the administrative requirements for LLCs.  The new rules require an annual report and a disclosure of at least one natural person with an ownership interest in the LLC.

So, for example, I had one client who engaged in internet transactions involving matters of a more carnal human nature.  His reputation and character were above reproach, and he truly saw the work as a business.  In fact, he hired someone to do all of it, and he merely cashed checks and paid the worker a straight salary with bonus incentives for sales volume.  My client rarely had any direct involvement with the "inventory" of the business.  When the LLC rules changed, and he was required to disclose his identity as being involved in the business, he asked me whether he could layer business entities in a way that would eliminate his name being linked to the business.  In the end, the truth is that it was no longer possible.  I could make several layers, but at some point, his name would have to be disclosed on one of those businesses (the ultimate parent of the other subsidiaries), no matter how many levels I added.  And the public records would be easily followed through the babushka doll structure, though it might take a little time.

My client closed shop.  He had no personal stake in the operations, and I saw it as a true confirmation that his personal character had essentially no involvement in the subject-matter of the business (though I do not judge or look down on anyone involved in that field - I just found it interesting to see how detached he was).

So, the point of this post is just to provide a cautionary tale to would-be pseudonymers.  Somewhere, somehow, someone always has paperwork tying one name to another.  We can take reasonable steps to eliminate the likelihood that idle snoopers will find you out.  But if someone is determined to dig, and they have access to online data and records, they may still find you out.  If you can't live with that, reconsider what you put out in the public eye that can find its way back home. 

Just my two cents...

Stuffeshead
(Eventually, I'll be broke giving my two cents every time I post like this)


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

matrushka  

Does MS allow for a "foreign" LLC (e.g. delaware llc) to hold a "domestic" (i.e. MS) LLC? A Delaware LLC as I understand only needs the resident agent for public records. That means an added annual fee and slightly higher incorporation costs, etc.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Amanda Brice said:


> KDP will absolutely let you change your tax reporting info after you've established your account (it's PubIt and now Nook Press that will not). The people I know who have been able to switch from a SS number to an EIN all changed their entity status as well, however. (In other words, went from a individual filing as a sole proprietor to a corporation, for instance.) I didn't switch my legal entity formation -- I'm remaining an individual filing as a sole proprietor. I'm simply formally doing business as Amanda Brice now.
> 
> I'm sure if I really wanted to push the issue they could find a way to fix it, but it looks like it would involve recoding which they don't want to do (the problem that was flagged is that the length of the SS number is different from that of the EIN, so the computer system sees it as a matching problem). So I haven't bothered to push the issue farther than pointing out to them that they are incorrect in their assertion that an individual cannot legally have a EIN. Because I do.


I also have an EIN, and a DBA (originally in Los Angeles, CA, and now in Vermont) for Norilana Books, which is a sole proprietorship.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> matrushka


Actually, *matryoshka* (putting my native Russian on).

Carry on!


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> Aha...yes, this explains why I'd never heard of an IRS DBA.
> 
> Anyway, just FYI, but Amazon's KDP system doesn't seem to have a way to accept the EIN in lieu of a SS number for sole proprietors. I have an EIN as a sole proprietor (and have for several months now), but despite multiple emails to KDP Support, it still won't accept it as a valid tax ID number.


That's really odd, as it has the exact same number of digits. Try typing it in the way you would a social security number (xxx-xx-xxxx).


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Christa Wick said:


> Interesting, TK. I thought you might, indeed, be talking about an EIN.
> 
> I'm going to look into this some more from the anonymity perspective. I already have 2 LLCs, one I did not get an EIN for and one I did. Neither protects my identity because of the LLC filings. And a local DBA (ours are registered by county) wouldn't keep my identity private either. Since I'm selling fiction digitally online, I don't need a DBA or an LLC where I live. *<-- *this varies by the jurisdiction you live in, even the county you live in. (Whenever you hear "I absolutely know X applies" always confirm against your country, state, county, even city, rules! The person may be 100% right for where they live, but following their advice where you live could cost a lot of $, heartache, maybe even jail time depending on the activity!)
> 
> So it's a matter of (a) will the IRS allow me, in applying for an EIN, to put in a fictitious name (again, I've done this, but I had a RL legal entity name (my LLC) to put in) for which no state filing of the entity name has occurred, (b) will the platform accept the fictitious name and EIN, (c) does my local jurisdiction require under all the circumstances for me to have a real entity filing in state, either a dba, llc, or other form, (d) will a bank allow me to establish an account for the name used on the EIN, in conjunction with the EIN - what proof do I need to open the account, etc.? On (b) I'm assuming most will if you start with it - I'm wondering if Amanda's issue with KDP is that her account started out as Real Name, Real SSN. I have heard people say KDP or Pubit (don't remember, might be both) will not allow you to change your tax information after you establish your account. One POTENTIAL work around is a second account (not allowed, but if it is your entity doing this, maybe it's not a second account, and you're doing it for a short time period, then the first account goes bye-bye) and (a) you assign ISBNs to the books under Account #1 and give it time for the system to absorb the new ISBNs, (b) you unpub the book and pub it under account #2 with the same ISBN. Then see if the rank and ratings roll over. I'm 99.99% certain the ratings will, no idea if the rank will.


A. Yes, there is not requirement in the US that your MUST use a legally approved name. The IRS only cares that you do not use a fake name/SS-4 number to commit fraud. "In the US at least, it is a 14th amendment right that you may conduct business using any name "at will", meaning any name at any time. Since the supreme court spoke on that point, several exceptions have come to light: a) no intent to defraud b) no copyright violation c) no profanity. " (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_pseudonyms_legal -- it's a place to start research if you want more info.)

C: "does my local jurisdiction require under all the circumstances for me to have a real entity filing in state, either a dba, llc, or other form" Unless the state/local entity can show that they have a valid governmental reason for knowing your pseudonym, you should not have to disclose it. Because in most cases the ONLY reason the local government has for wanting this information is tax purposes, the fact that you accurately record your income for them should be sufficient. The name you use to collect that income is irrelevant. (See 14th amendment above).

D: With the form you have from the IRS the bank cannot legally deny you an account on the basis that you have a pseudonym on the account. (see 14th amendment quote -- plus it was the IRS that started requiring banks to verify identity on accounts. My first run at the bank with a pseudonym didn't require any paperwork, I just went in and asked to set up an account, my soc.sec. number was never even asked for. Today it is different, but the IRS form EIN should take care of any such problems)

B: I don't know from experience but businesses publish stuff all the time with their Tax Numbers and they don't have problems, so why should you? (i.e., Random House uses their Tax number for ALL books they publish and then break out the royalties to authors internally).

Ranking? No experience.

Regarding the legality of pseudonyms, I am aware of several court cases where the identity of the person was called into question on account of having multiple pseudonyms, in all cases the government lost to the individual (unless the exceptions noted above applied to the case). In one case a guy was arrested at a traffic stop when the policeman noticed he had several credit cards all in different names from his Driver's license, on the grounds that he must be doing something illegal or he wouldn't have those different names on the cards. The judge reamed the policeman a new one, saying in effect, that unless the man was suspected of committing fraud the policeman had no grounds for an arrest simply because the man had multiple names. The man said he used different names on the cards to make it easier to track expenses.


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## tkepner (Jun 13, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> KDP will absolutely let you change your tax reporting info after you've established your account (it's PubIt and now Nook Press that will (the problem that was flagged is that the length of the SS number is different from that of the EIN, so the computer system sees it as a matching problem).


If that's the reason they gave you then that's a lie. Your social security number is nine digits 123-45-6789. "An Employer Identification Number (EIN) is a nine-digit number" (quoted from IRS publication number 1635, page 4 - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1635.pdf). The format is different (12-3456789) but you can parse it as 123-45-6789 and then they will be happy if they require the hyphens.


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## Stuffeshead (Jan 19, 2011)

Christa Wick said:


> matrushka
> 
> Does MS allow for a "foreign" LLC (e.g. delaware llc) to hold a "domestic" (i.e. MS) LLC? A Delaware LLC as I understand only needs the resident agent for public records. That means an added annual fee and slightly higher incorporation costs, etc.


Thanks, Christa and Vera for the corrections!

This is informational only, and SHOULD NOT BE DEEMED LEGAL ADVICE. I am not aware of any legal barrier to a foreign LLC owning a MS LLC. However, the annual reporting form in MS would still require a natural person to be disclosed on the form for the domestic MS LLC.

We looked for every angle and hit a wall every time. I believe I could make it happen with one particular approach, but the risk was too great for this particular client, and I couldn't test my theory. I plan to test that theory with my own business venture I am fostering in the coming months (not related to writing/publishing).

We shall see.... Soon...


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2013)

Vera Nazarian said:


> I just downloaded BLISS KISS!


Coolness! Thanks. BLISS KISS is kind of a slow build without a lot of payoff in that first book. (Way more in the next three installments.) I collected it all into VIRGIN BLISS, which I currently have marked down to $2.99.

I tend to be a slow-build kind of writer. I like to spend time establishing characters, showing who they are and why they decide to sleep together, rather than starting off with the hot-n-nasties.  Some people prefer the sudden jump into the cold pond, but I like to ease my way in. It's more interesting to me, that way, as a writer.

My newest, SLEEPLESS OVER, is kinda like that, too; seven chapters that get progressively hotter.

And the hot stuff will be a bit less emphasized in my new F/F SF adventure series that I'll be launching soon... Because there's going to be characters to meet, a plot that goes beyond the naughty bits, bad guys to confront and defeat... lots of fun stuff.

How is your stuff coming?


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> Coolness! Thanks. BLISS KISS is kind of a slow build without a lot of payoff in that first book. (Way more in the next three installments.) I collected it all into VIRGIN BLISS, which I currently have marked down to $2.99.


It's in my awesome to-read erotica batch! Haven't had a chance to read yet, since I've been dealing with the *Cobweb Bride* release (and soon upcoming virtual blog book tour in August), plus working like crazy on books two and three.



> I tend to be a slow-build kind of writer. I like to spend time establishing characters, showing who they are and why they decide to sleep together, rather than starting off with the hot-n-nasties.  Some people prefer the sudden jump into the cold pond, but I like to ease my way in. It's more interesting to me, that way, as a writer.
> 
> My newest, SLEEPLESS OVER, is kinda like that, too; seven chapters that get progressively hotter.
> 
> ...


Sounds like an excellent plan for writing! Hope to grab more of your titles eventually...

My own erotica venture is still percolating in my brain for the exact reasons you mention -- I need to have a decent plot and characters, I cannot just write the sexy stuff without a neat framing story and concept to go around it.

So, for now, the other genre projects are taking up all my time, but the backburner part of my brain is chugging along! Thanks for asking!


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

About the copyright office, just don't file a formal copyright. The copyright filing doesn't really do much for you in the real world. The big thing is statutory damages rather than actual damages if you can catch someone pirating your work. In the olden days, when smut had to be sent by pony express, it was a physical object making it easy to track someone down who was pirating and selling your work. Now it's all digital and if someone does steal it, it's probably someone operating through a proxy from China or Russia that you are never ever going to find. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone actually benefiting from a filed copyright.

In terms of a DBA, you shouldn't need to list all your pen names, but rather your publisher name which could be something entirely innocuous. The French Press or United Fruitcake Outlet or something.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

tkepner said:


> If that's the reason they gave you then that's a lie. Your social security number is nine digits 123-45-6789. "An Employer Identification Number (EIN) is a nine-digit number" (quoted from IRS publication number 1635, page 4 - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1635.pdf). The format is different (12-3456789) but you can parse it as 123-45-6789 and then they will be happy if they require the hyphens.


D'oh! I don't know why I didn't think to try parsing the format differently. I just did it and it took!


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

<Rant>

Whenever I see people comparing 50SoG as "best slling erotica" with other erotica it drives me nuts because 50SoG is not a fair comparison.

It was never about the BDSM, or the erotica and Lord knows it wasn't the writing. (I'm only hating a lil bit. Honest. Lol)

50SoG was the huge success it became because the original work came with a built in FAN FICTION AUDIENCE and that audience is extremely loyal and rabid to read their beloved canon characters doing things that the original writer has not written/will not write.

It's simple "supply & demand" writing. And because the writer of 50SoG was a member of that fan fiction community she knew exactly what it was starving/thirsty to read. The story does not reflect a true BDSM relationship. It reflects perfectly what a non-BDSMer might think goes on in a true BDSM relationship, including playing to the non-BDSMer/reader's preconceived prejudices regarding that lifestyle.

Another fandom I was a part of a looooong time ago centered around a particularly popular "ship" (fandom slang for "relationship") involving a very sexually/socially repressed female and a very sexually/socially repressed male. These two main characters couldn't have have found either of their genitalia with a road map, GPS & a flashlight, but the fans were so many and so vocal that the TV series eventually put them together very clumsily and insisted publicly that it was "always the plan". Ugh.

Interestingly enough, the fan fiction in this particular fandom is very heavy on BDSM themes and situations, but they're written by fans who call BDSM "disgusting"". Lol. And even funnier to me is the fact that the female is always written very sweet/vulnerable/coy/sexy and the male is so dominant. In actuality, the female character is practically asexual, frigid at best and the male is submissive. But the fan fiction writers write what the fans WANT TO READ. If they had ever decided to publish any of that stuff I'm convinced the built in fanbase/audience would have bought it like 50SoG. </Rant>

Phew, I feel better now.

BTW, on the question of vamp vs werewolf, watch Joe Manganiello transform into a werewolf. Nuff said.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I think I missed this thread earlier, or maybe I hadn't decided to write erotica for money myself so I hadn't paid attention....

I'm in a very similar situation to Vera -- I'm unemployed and would like to make money at writing. So this summers writing experiment/challenge is to get serious about making money. (Though I do not believe that there is any aspect of writing that works as a "get rich quick" scheme.)

*About the question of writing something in a "hot" subgenre that you don't like, vs. something you do like in a slower selling genre (and also identifying what those subgenres are):*

I think the question isn't "what's the hottest selling genre out there?" but rather "what's the sweet spot for my ability to write vs. what sells vs. the competition?"

Let's just say there are one or two subgenres that sell like hot cakes. And then there are four or five more that sell steadily. It would seem obvious to go to the top ones, right? Well, what if it takes you four times as long to write those? And they don't make four times as much money? Or what if you can only write a few of those before you burn out? (And in erotica, if you stop writing new works, I understand it's common for your back list to stop selling so well.)

The other problem with the hot genres is that you've got more competition -- so even though you see some people doing great, they might be in the minority, and most people are doing about the same as the other genres.

Also, I'm sure certain under-served kinks have very loyal audiences who will search out and buy anything related to their favorite subject.

So... I'm doing research. I'm writing up a storm to see what I can write quickly. (And finding that I do burn out more quickly with erotic writing and have to take that into consideration.) I'm also browsing the erotica category at Amazon, and seeing what is out there and how the books seem to be doing.

One thing I did to see if I could sort out what the average writer was doing (as opposed to the people who were willing to talk about it on forums) is to sort the list by most recent, and then page back 100 pages or so to get to books that have been up for a couple of weeks. Then I start looking at genre, length, price range and ranking.

I did learn one thing for sure: there are some authors who seem to do everything absolutely right according to what we hear on forums, and who still don't sell a single copy. (Not many, but some.) And that there are a lot of people doing all sorts of things wrong who are selling well. And that the only people guaranteed to do great will be those who write that one kink that you just find too creepy to contemplate.

And that there are LOTS of people who seem to be carving out a niche for themselves, and doing all right with it.

The only way you'll know whether what you write well will sell is to get at least a half dozen stories up there and see how it goes.

And the smartest way to do that is to start with what _you_ can write and finish quickly enough to have six stories to publish and watch.

Camille


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

daringnovelist said:


> So... I'm doing research. I'm writing up a storm to see what I can write quickly. (And finding that I do burn out more quickly with erotic writing and have to take that into consideration.) I'm also browsing the erotica category at Amazon, and seeing what is out there and how the books seem to be doing.


In pre-Kindle days, I had a pretty good gig writing mildly erotic damsel-in-distress type adventure stories for a mag specializing in pulpy men's adventure fiction. Pretty much any story I sent there was a guaranteed sale. I sold seven stories in a row to them and I had fun writing those stories. But then something odd happened. I burned out hard. I still had plenty of ideas for spicy damsel-in-distress stories, but I just couldn't write them. My harddrive is littered with abandoned stories of that type.

When I started indie publishing, I put up some of the stories I wrote for that mag for sale. And lo and behold - they still sold. They outsold most of my other works (with two exceptions that just don't sell very well - no idea why). And the stories that sell best are the last two I wrote, when I was already in the process of burning out. So the logical path would be to write more stories along those lines (and finish some of the abandoned stories), since I obviously hit upon a niche that sells. However, I can still only write those stories in very limited quantities, otherwise I'll risk another burn out.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

So, the damsel-in-distress soft erotica you wrote for pulpy men's magazines... did you publish them as erotica or as erotic romance?

I'm curious partly because it seems like there is a shift in the audience, from what I'm hearing. I don't know how much we can tell about our own individual audiences other than how well we succeed when we put the story in one place or another.

(Also, a hundred years ago, a lot of what we see today as heavily romantic fiction was considered just plain old adventure -- rather like we'd see an Action movie today.  For both men and women, but maybe leaning toward the male audience.)  And I really LIKE a lot of that stuff.  I already write some of it as non-erotic fiction, and was considering a more romance heavy line under a pen name (but not erotic). 

Camille


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I published them as romance (since the erotic content wasn't any stronger than what had been in dozens of romances during the bodiceripper era) and - in the two cases where the romance plot is more of an afterthought - as historical fiction. They still have mainly erotica and sometimes old style bodicerippers in the also-boughts. Interestingly, I have no idea why one of those stories - a Bernard Cornwell style Napoleonic war tale with the heroine about to get garrotted - barely sells, since the category, keywords, cover, blurb, etc... is no different from the others. The best theory I have is that many people have no idea what a garrotte is.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

LBrent said:


> <Rant>
> 
> Interestingly enough, the fan fiction in this particular fandom is very heavy on BDSM themes and situations, but they're written by fans who call BDSM "disgusting"". Lol. And even funnier to me is the fact that the female is always written very sweet/vulnerable/coy/sexy and the male is so dominant. In actuality, the female character is practically asexual, frigid at best and the male is submissive. But the fan fiction writers write what the fans WANT TO READ. If they had ever decided to publish any of that stuff I'm convinced the built in fanbase/audience would have bought it like 50SoG. </Rant>


I so want to know what show this was. I wracked my brains, and sort of have a guess, but... It didn't start with the third letter from the end of the alphabet, by any chance?

Oh, and very informative post. I had no idea about some of the stuff posted here.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> I so want to know what show this was. I wracked my brains, and sort of have a guess, but... It didn't start with the third letter from the end of the alphabet, by any chance?
> 
> Oh, and very informative post. I had no idea about some of the stuff posted here.


It's not a show. It's the Twilight book/movie series.

Camille


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Sheila,
Erm...Yup. You've probably got it.

Camille,
The fanfic that inspired 50SoG started as a Twilight fanfic, but the other fandom I was posting about was not.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2013)

daringnovelist said:


> The only way you'll know whether what you write well will sell is to get at least a half dozen stories up there and see how it goes.
> 
> And the smartest way to do that is to start with what _you_ can write and finish quickly enough to have six stories to publish and watch.
> 
> Camille


Camille,

I entered erotica in the fall of 2011.

By March of 2012, I'd published 8 original shorts and 2 collections. I had a run of almost a year making in the $200/mo. range, even after I kinda burned out for a while.

In December of 2012, I published a 9th original and a third collection, and that kept me at a minimum of at least $100/mo for a few more months.

But since April, my sales really took a hit because I had not published much in 2012, and nothing in 2013, until I recently re-entered the arena last week with SLEEPLESS OVER. Somehow, my audience was still there and waiting for me, because during my free run this weekend in Select, I've made it into the 60s of the Top 100 Free Erotica titles, and it's reinvigorating sales of my backlist, even though most of my titles are 15-19 months old.

What does all this mean?

Well, it means that it's possible in erotica to publish several shorts in a brief amount of time, and do well.

I've kept my releases very unified so far; everything I write has "F/F first time" as the featured kink/subgenre. I can write about it a lot because it's my personal turn-on.

But I did burn out and it kept me out of erotica for well over a year. So I'm not sure a breakneck pace is good to maintain long-term, if it causes you to burn out. But it did create a good launching pad.

Now my goal is not so much to have a new title every month, but maybe a new title every quarter... a bit longer, higher quality, but I couldn't get away with that if I didn't have that backlist.

My sales are measly compared to some; F/F is considered "not a money-maker," because unlike 50SoG, it can't bring you in 1,000s of sales every month.

But I don't care; I couldn't write that if I tried. It's not my turn-on. That's where erotica is significantly different from less-erotic literature. You need personal passion behind it to make it work.

While F/F first-time might not be a "money-maker," I'm convinced if I'd slowed down sooner, I wouldn't have burned out, and I'd still be drawing 100-250/mo. now, or possibly more, because I'd have a bigger backlist.

But now I'm rebooting my erotica career with a healthier pace in mind.  With the blessing of my readers, I'll get back to where I was, and beyond!


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

There is so much excellent food for thought here, everyone, I am so glad we are still talking about it.

I didn't even think about erotica writer burnout...


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## NicoleSwan (Oct 2, 2011)

SarahSalari said:


> But I did burn out and it kept me out of erotica for well over a year. So I'm not sure a breakneck pace is good to maintain long-term, if it causes you to burn out. But it did create a good launching pad.
> 
> Now my goal is not so much to have a new title every month, but maybe a new title every quarter... a bit longer, higher quality, but I couldn't get away with that if I didn't have that backlist.


I think this is a good goal/plan, now the real trouble is sticking to it


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

LBrent said:


> Sheila,
> Erm...Yup. You've probably got it.
> 
> Camille,
> The fanfic that inspired 50SoG started as a Twilight fanfic, but the other fandom I was posting about was not.


Ha! It wasn't believable that those two got together, the way the characters were written. Of course, after the Moonlighting fiasco back in the 80s, every show I watch with a male and female MC has me wondering how long it will be before the writers get them together. Currently taking bets on Continuum, I don't think they'll last the season.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> Ha! It wasn't believable that those two got together, *the way the characters were written*. Of course, after the Moonlighting fiasco back in the 80s, every show I watch with a male and female MC has me wondering how long it will be before the writers get them together. Currently taking bets on Continuum, I don't think they'll last the season.


Exactly!

But see, that's the beauty/ugly side of fandoms/fanfiction.

The way the canon characters (the ones designed by the original writer) are written may inspire another writer to go off in a brand new direction that might catch on like 50SoG, but in order to capitalize on the new work it must be altered so as not to step on the original writer's toes. After all, the audience is built in but it was cultivated by the original writer.

It's definitely a slippery slope.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2013)

NicoleSwan said:


> I think this is a good goal/plan, now the real trouble is sticking to it


Sticking to a plan. The eternal struggle. So true. 

Well, hey, if you're ever in the same hemisphere, look me up... perhaps we can inspire each other the way only two women (writers) can!


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