# Has Anyone Used Damonza for their Covers?



## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm thinking about giving them a try with one of my new covers. I haven't used them before, but I like to vary things a little bit and it's always good to have a few options when you produce a fair amount of work like I do. But there have been so many horror stories that I'm being even more cautious these days than I used to be when I try someone new.

My initial research shows some great work and I haven't turned up anything negative, but I also have not spoken with someone personally who has used them before. I would appreciate any feedback you can offer or a PM if you feel that would be more appropriate.

Thanks!


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

One more bump and then I'll let it die. Anyone? Anyone?


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

I hired him for my book. I'm supposed to get a a couple drafts today. 

I can report that I have heard great things about him directly from John Waldron. I know Jessica Park used him as well for her NYT bestseller books.

Communication has been very good, from both him and Benjamin, who handles the book formatting portion of the business. I'll post the drafts here as soon as I get them. Hope this helps.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

EdShull said:


> I hired him for my book. I'm supposed to get a a couple drafts today.
> 
> I can report that I have heard great things about him directly from John Waldron. I know Jessica Park used him as well for her NYT bestseller books.
> 
> Communication has been very good, from both him and Benjamin, who handles the book formatting portion of the business. I'll post the drafts here as soon as I get them. Hope this helps.


It does help. Thank you.


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## JulietMoore (Oct 18, 2011)

MichaelWallace said:


> I'm thinking about giving them a try with one of my new covers. I haven't used them before, but I like to vary things a little bit and it's always good to have a few options when you produce a fair amount of work like I do. But there have been so many horror stories that I'm being even more cautious these days than I used to be when I try someone new.
> 
> My initial research shows some great work and I haven't turned up anything negative, but I also have not spoken with someone personally who has used them before. I would appreciate any feedback you can offer or a PM if you feel that would be more appropriate.
> 
> Thanks!


Damon has done every one of my covers. I've been working with him for a year and a half now and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him. He's always reliable. He's also extremely professional. He just shows the ebook covers in his samples, but he's also excellent at creating print covers.

Honestly, I can't think of one bad thing to say about him


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

JulietMoore said:


> Damon has done every one of my covers. I've been working with him for a year and a half now and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him. He's always reliable. He's also extremely professional. He just shows the ebook covers in his samples, but he's also excellent at creating print covers.
> 
> Honestly, I can't think of one bad thing to say about him


Love your covers, BTW. You're one of the authors whose books made me go with him.


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## JulietMoore (Oct 18, 2011)

EdShull said:


> Love your covers, BTW. You're one of the authors whose books made me go with him.


Thanks, Ed! That's so nice of you to say 

I can't wait to see your cover. What genre?


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

So after browsing his site...seems like it is $395 for ONE cover, correct? If so, ouch.

Will definitely have to wait a year before I can afford that.

His examples though are impressive. I wonder if it is possible to do a cover with two-three specific characters and say, a pet that is integral to the plot?

Since it is my first year I am guessing I should run my business lean for the time being, but those covers _are_ quite eye-catching.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Ok, I just got these in. I'm a bit disappointed, especially considering the past samples (I'm looking at you Juliet!). What do you think? Is it more, or are these... not so awesome? Maybe it's me, so feedback appreciated. 

upload photos

free photo hosting

free image hosting


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

What is the book category? I like that last one quite a bit...depending on the category. It wouldn't work for erom or thriller, for example. Contemporary or literary is a different story.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah, without knowing genre/blurb it's pretty impossible to tell. I'd say the last is my fave, but I know nothing to base it on.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Sorry, yes, Contemp Fiction. Just can't help feel these are very stock photo like when compared to his samples.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Then without knowing anything about the story itself, I'd say the last works best for me, and it does seem to work for the genre.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

Mathew Reuther said:


> Then without knowing anything about the story itself, I'd say the last works best for me, and it does seem to work for the genre.


I agree. I like it a lot for that category. The other two don't do anything for me.


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## Soothesayer (Oct 19, 2012)

I like the second one. The first is depressing.

But the second could use some...birds?

Have to admit, doesn't seem really all that impressive, at least not for the cost. You could probably get something close to that just using gimp and simple stock images (except maybe the last one).

The last one looks a bit hard on the eyes. Is it readable as a thumbnail?


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Soothesayer said:


> The last one looks a bit hard on the eyes. Is it readable as a thumbnail?


When I zoom all the way out it's still very readable, and that makes it smaller than the Amazon buy page.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

I'd probably ask for something else, and if that's not possible I'd count the deposit as a loss (it's about $200, right?) and look for a $35-$50 premade cover. There's a ton of premades out there that look much better than these, especially those first two. I get no sense of what the book might be about by looking at any of these.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

the first one is by far my favorite, but i understand what you are saying about not being as great as you expected.  the second one is quite honestly awful IMO.  third is okay, but not compelling.


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## Ignis_Designs (Jan 28, 2013)

I am really enjoying the text playing with the power lines in the first and the color play of blue and orange in the third.

These are really well done, I think the reaction is mostly emotional. The color in the first one seems a little sad, and I feel like it is maybe affecting how we feel about them all. I hope that makes sense.

The more I look at the first one, the more I like it.


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## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

Unfortunately, I have to agree. For that price, these seem less than impressive.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you, everyone. After some thought, and reading your feedback, I think my problem with the designs is that they are not the exceptional work I have seen from most other who have used the services. 

I'm not very price sensitive, so I figured I would try to get the best, which after looking through samples and getting feedback, I thought was Damonza. I got the Premium package, which includes book layout, for $720. I guess I feel these covers are more inline with what I see from pre-made covers and not very unique.

But, I could be part of the problem. I didn't want to steer to much from any creative ideas he had, so I was possibly more vague than I should have been. I sent an email asking if I should be more specific. Based on the feedback others have given me, and the work he's done in the past, I'll get the amazing cover I'm hoping for.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

good luck, ed.  hopefully he'll put together more samples for you. i LOVE the title by the way, and the covers aren't doing it justice.  i'm not sure the focus on the word line is working in your favor. that last cover looks like something for toastmasters.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Anne Frasier said:


> good luck, ed. hopefully he'll put together more samples for you. i LOVE the title by the way, and the covers aren't doing it justice. i'm not sure the focus on the word line is working in your favor. that last cover looks like something for toastmasters.


Thank you so much. And yeah, I don't get the phone line thing. There really is no overuse of phones in the book.


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## Ell (Mar 4, 2013)

Did they read your book? You know the beautiful, smart covers big publishers put out? It seems the designers actually read the books.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Ell said:


> Did they read your book? You know the beautiful, smart covers big publishers put out? It seems the designers actually read the books.


I uploaded a copy of the manuscript, so I hope so, but I worry they didn't.


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## JulietMoore (Oct 18, 2011)

I like the third one, but I agree that more revisions need to be done. To compare with my covers, only The Hidden Heiress was accepted with zero revisions. With everything else, we went back and forth. I think great work can be achieved in that way -- kind of like how working with a developmental editor can really make a manuscript shine.

I think if you can verbalize exactly what you like and don't like, he will get you to a cover you love. Have you told him which of the sample covers you really love? That would probably be helpful as well.

Someone mentioned considering the deposit a loss, but you don't have to worry about that. Right in his FAQ, he says that if the two of you can't come up with something you're happy with, he will refund the deposit. Like I said, he's really reliable.

Finally, I've never heard of a freelance cover designer who reads the book. If the publishing house designers do (which I have no idea about) keep in mind that publishers often spend a couple of thousand on a cover.


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## Ignis_Designs (Jan 28, 2013)

Do not be afraid to tell a designer what you like. My favorite client is my brother-in-law, he has very specific ideas about what he wants, it does not harm my creativity at all.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks Juliet and Ignis. 

I did tell him I thought the third one was the closest to what I was looking for, but that I wasn't overly thrilled with any of them.

He had asked for samples of other book designs I thought were good, so I made a list of five covers at edwardshull.tumblr.com, and told him I liked Me, Earl and the Dying Girl best. 

I'm not worried about him coming through for me, he has been nothing short of professional so far. But probably good advice to be more specific. I'll do that.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Ignis_Designs said:


> Do not be afraid to tell a designer what you like. My favorite client is my brother-in-law, he has very specific ideas about what he wants, it does not harm my creativity at all.


Yeah, whatever you do, don't be me. My brother is a good client.

I am the devil.

In oh so many ways.


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## CarlG (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm a big fan of Damonza and have a friend getting ready to contract a cover there. His covers typically feature a textured look and strong graphic and typographical components designed to telegraph at thumbnail size. Especially for certain genres I think he's in the top tier of designers out there. Bear in mind he has hired helpers and no longer does every cover fully himself.

Not impressed by the covers shown (and not on board with the power line metaphor), and I do wonder (along with others here) if he needs more input from the author. These may also be only mockups to solicit response, rather than intended as finished work.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

CarlG said:


> Not impressed by the covers shown (and not on board with the power line metaphor), and I do wonder (along with others here) if he needs more input from the author. These may also be only mockups to solicit response, rather than intended as finished work.


Fair enough. I just sent him a 6 page summary of the book, including a break down of the main characters and the main theme of the story. Hopefully that helps. I also told him which of his covers I like best, and eliminated some ideas. And I included a piece of art, it's actually a postcard, that someone thought was an interesting catalyst for a cover. So, hopefully that helps.

And thanks for confirming I'm not crazy. These just didn't seem up to his usual work that I've seen. They looked like something I'd get from a pre-made cover place.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

He did both my JJ Graves and Addison Holmes Mystery Series covers in my sig line. He also did the cover for my thriller, KILL SHOT, that comes out in February. He's very professional and will work on it until it's just how you want it. He does beautiful work, as you can see from his portfolio. It's very much worth the price.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

He did my Maggie for Hire cover and I was nothing but impressed with working with him.  He gave me three covers which didn't work for me, so I told him.  He did another round that I didn't like.  Then he did the third round and we came up with this cover which I am VERY pleased with.  I was so impressed that he was totally cool with doing revisions until I was happy, never a word of complaint, and eventually we got where we needed to go.  Just be open, upfront, and clear, and (I found) he'll work really hard to get your vision realized.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

EdShull said:


> Fair enough. I just sent him a 6 page summary of the book, including a break down of the main characters and the main theme of the story. Hopefully that helps. I also told him which of his covers I like best, and eliminated some ideas. And I included a piece of art, it's actually a postcard, that someone thought was an interesting catalyst for a cover. So, hopefully that helps.
> 
> And thanks for confirming I'm not crazy. These just didn't seem up to his usual work that I've seen. They looked like something I'd get from a pre-made cover place.


I'm looking at having some new covers done up once I get this next book out in a few months, so I'm curious to see how your experience plays out with Damonza. They're definitely on my list as of now.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Everything was fantastic! I'm really happy with my cover. Damon hit it out of the park with the second round, and has shown the patience of a saint when it comes to my nit picky requests. Turnaround has been fast. I can't see ever using anyone else at this point.

Learn from my mistake, give him a good summary of the book, break down of the characters and who you want to market to. I tired to be more vague, so as to not limit his creativity. I was wrong. Be specific and he will not disappoint.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

EdShull said:


> Everything was fantastic! I'm really happy with my cover. Damon hit it out of the park with the second round, and has show the patience of a saint when it comes to my nit picky requests. Turnaround has been fast. I can't see ever using anyone else at this point.
> 
> Learn from my mistake, give me a good summary of the book, break down of the characters and who you want to market to. I tired to be more vague, so as to not limit his creativity. I was wrong. Be specific and he will not disappoint.


Fantastic news! Can't wait to see the cover!!!!!!


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## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

EdShull said:


> Everything was fantastic! I'm really happy with my cover. Damon hit it out of the park with the second round, and has show the patience of a saint when it comes to my nit picky requests. Turnaround has been fast. I can't see ever using anyone else at this point.
> 
> Learn from my mistake, give me a good summary of the book, break down of the characters and who you want to market to. I tired to be more vague, so as to not limit his creativity. I was wrong. Be specific and he will not disappoint.


We want to see the cover!


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Here it is, let me know what you think. Getting good feedback from friends and booksellers.


image sharing


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Looks good.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

I guess I should add that it's contemporary fiction, and the cover actually goes along well with the story of the book. My goal was to have something that was different, professional, and noticeable. I wanted it to "look like a good book", which hopefully it is.


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

LOVE it!


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## Ell (Mar 4, 2013)

Yeap. Very nice. Congrats and best of luck with the book.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

I LOVE that cover. Very nice.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Amazing cover!!! 

(And I couldn't agree more about being specific with your book cover designer. It actually makes our job easier!)

Rue


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## nico (Jan 17, 2013)

Great stuff! We've got a cover redesign coming soon from Damonza too. He's great to work with! I can't wait to show it to y'all!!!


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## cpasley (Mar 13, 2013)

I bought a premade cover from Damonza when I was really new to this and in a hurry to get Cages (http://bit.ly/cagesbook) out. Here it was:









I liked it, given the story, but I got some feedback that it didn't really pop. So after about 5 months I bought a pretty inexpensive premade from Goonwrite. I think as a selling tool, this might do the job better to my zombie-loving audience. 









So in my experience, Dmonza may be great for custom jobs, and I really like the cover he made, but if I had it to do over I might have spent less on a premade cover.


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## nico (Jan 17, 2013)

You saw it here first.  Now let's see how it sells.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

EdShull said:


> Here it is, let me know what you think. Getting good feedback from friends and booksellers.
> 
> 
> image sharing


wow. love it!!


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

nico said:


> You saw it here first.  Now let's see how it sells.


love this one too!!!


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

Ugh.  Damonza's so ridiculously talented, its just gross.  /jealous designer is jealous

LOL, but no, congrats on some gorgeous covers guys.  I really love how dynamic Love on the Run is, Nico.  I think that'll definitely get you some sales.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

nico said:


> You saw it here first.  Now let's see how it sells.


This is great.

But we need to keep it a secret, we don't want him raising his rates. 

I just hired from my next cover. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Those are gorgeous!


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

EdShull said:


> Everything was fantastic! I'm really happy with my cover. Damon hit it out of the park with the second round, and has shown the patience of a saint when it comes to my nit picky requests. Turnaround has been fast. I can't see ever using anyone else at this point.
> 
> Learn from my mistake, give him a good summary of the book, break down of the characters and who you want to market to. I tired to be more vague, so as to not limit his creativity. I was wrong. Be specific and he will not disappoint.


This is great to hear. I will definitely be checking him (them?) out.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

EdShull said:


> Here it is, let me know what you think. Getting good feedback from friends and booksellers.


Very nice, Ed! My only concern is it is a bit dark and washed out. Is there a way to give it a bit of a pop? I'm afraid otherwise it won't be noticeable at thumbnail. It's gorgeous full-size, but remember that thumbnail is how people will first see it.

But it definitely looks like a "big" contemporary fiction book, that's for sure.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> Very nice, Ed! My only concern is it is a bit dark and washed out. Is there a way to give it a bit of a pop? I'm afraid otherwise it won't be noticeable at thumbnail. It's gorgeous full-size, but remember that thumbnail is how people will first see it.
> 
> But it definitely looks like a "big" contemporary fiction book, that's for sure.


Good feedback. When I look at the thumbnail on Amazon, if it's dark I'll brighten it up a bit in Photoshop. Thanks!


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

EdShull said:


> This is great.
> 
> But we need to keep it a secret, we don't want him raising his rates.
> 
> I just hired from my next cover. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with.


Too late for me. I found Damon on eLance on Dec 2011, he did my book cover. His rates have now doubled in a year and he's no longer doing work on eLance. He's worth it, so people, better hurry up, before his rates go back up again.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Kalen ODonnell said:


> Ugh. Damonza's so ridiculously talented, its just gross. /jealous designer is jealous


You and me both, Kalen! But if we keep working at it, maybe one day we'll make other designers jealous too. 

Ed, if the cover looks dark on Amazon, I recommend contacting Damon about brightening it up. Unless you've got a calibrated monitor, of course. 

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

EdShull said:


> I guess I should add that it's contemporary fiction, and the cover actually goes along well with the story of the book. My goal was to have something that was different, professional, and noticeable. I wanted it to "look like a good book", which hopefully it is.


Just went back in the thread and saw your cover. Very nice! It really stands out. Much better than the earlier drafts. Congrats.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

The new cover is gorgeous!!! So much better than the first round. This one looks really special and like what you'd see on a pretty trade paperback or hardcover. Love it!


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Alan Petersen said:


> Just went back in the thread and saw your cover. Very nice! It really stands out. Much better than the earlier drafts. Congrats.


Thank you. I noticed your on the Sample page too. Excellent job.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

PamelaKelley said:


> The new cover is gorgeous!!! So much better than the first round. This one looks really special and like what you'd see on a pretty trade paperback or hardcover. Love it!


Thanks, Pamela!


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

One word of caution on working with Damon. I selected the Premium Combo package for $720, that included layout. I'm new to all this, so I wanted to make sure I got everything formatted correctly.

They tout 48 hour turnaround. I sent my file on the 13th, and on the 18th I finally heard back with Benjamin asking for a Word file. I had sent a Word file and re-sent it. He replied that he had gotten it and it was his mistake. He then sent over a layout that included a some really funky fonts for the headers. I mean, like the kind you would use in a children's book. Which would be fine, if I wrote a children's book. He included a note saying he didn't know what my book was about, so he used that font. I'll set aside the fact that this font, and I'll post a pic for anyone who wants to see it, is clearly not a good default "safe' choice for a book. But I am a little upset that I spent an hour putting together a 6 page summary that I know they received because Damon did such a great job with the cover. But even with just the sparse description I gave, it's clear it's not a child's book.

I told Benjamin that the font was really inappropriate for the book and asked him to go with something more traditional. I also sent over an updated manuscript. The next day, now 6 days after I submitted my manuscript, he sends over a corrected version, which does look better, but as you may have guessed, once again didn't check his email and sent over the old manuscript. I pointed it out to him and he has now told me he would need to charge more money because he now has to change it.

I replied with an email simply asking how much more, and how much longer it will be, and an hour later, I still haven't heard back. It's now after 2:00am and I'm afraid if I go to bed and miss his email, I'll have to wait an entire day (they're in South Africa) to have a shot at getting this back.

Sorry for the rant, but I guess what I'm saying is you might want to stay clear of them for layout. Great covers, but they seem to have an issue getting layout right. I'm getting the feeling I'm going to have to end up going to 52Novels to get it done, which is going to waste more time and money.


image hosting sites


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

That's a shame, Ed. Hope you manage to get things sorted out soon.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Mathew Reuther said:


> That's a shame, Ed. Hope you manage to get things sorted out soon.


Thanks, Mat. I'm still up and working on it. He sent me over a new draft missing 9 pages. All nighter for me.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

I hope it gets sorted Mr Shull.

That's quite an outlay and I'd expect a better service than what you have so far received.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

DAWearmouth said:


> I hope it gets sorted Mr Shull.
> 
> That's quite an outlay and I'd expect a better service than what you have so far received.


Thanks, I was hoping I'd get better service too. It's clear the layout guy Benjamin doesn't really check his email, or double check his work before sending it out. It's not after 4am PST. Since he's not replying I'm just going to head to bed knowing that I won't have this done for yet another day. Really a shame, because Damon is so good at covers.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

EdShull said:


> Thanks, I was hoping I'd get better service too. It's clear the layout guy Benjamin doesn't really check his email, or double check his work before sending it out. It's not after 4am PST. Since he's not replying I'm just going to head to bed knowing that I won't have this done for yet another day. Really a shame, because Damon is so good at covers.


That's really a headache. He should have taken care of this - it's 1pm South African time and prime business hours maybe he'll work on it.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

EdShull said:


> One word of caution on working with Damon. I selected the Premium Combo package for $720, that included layout. I'm new to all this, so I wanted to make sure I got everything formatted correctly.
> 
> They tout 48 hour turnaround. I sent my file on the 13th, and on the 18th I finally heard back with Benjamin asking for a Word file. I had sent a Word file and re-sent it. He replied that he had gotten it and it was his mistake. He then sent over a layout that included a some really funky fonts for the headers. I mean, like the kind you would use in a children's book. Which would be fine, if I wrote a children's book. He included a note saying he didn't know what my book was about, so he used that font. I'll set aside the fact that this font, and I'll post a pic for anyone who wants to see it, is clearly not a good default "safe' choice for a book. But I am a little upset that I spent an hour putting together a 6 page summary that I know they received because Damon did such a great job with the cover. But even with just the sparse description I gave, it's clear it's not a child's book.
> 
> ...


That sucks Ed. I found a great guy on oDesk. He formatted my book for eBook and paperback (for CreateSpace POD) and he did a great job. I've used him twice now. Super fast turn around time. And he'll work with you until you're happy. He uses traditional fonts, nothing fancy. You can "look inside" my book on Amazon if you want to check out his work. I paid $45 for the ebook and paperback formatting. I'm pretty sure he can get you squared away pretty quickly.

https://www.odesk.com/users/~01ef42bf03db13857b


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## Eric C (Aug 3, 2009)

Here's another Damonza (I'm still tinkering with) for a Gothic historical novel. He's been very responsive in making changes:


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## Scarlett_R (Sep 30, 2011)

This is an awesome thread, I love it. It shows perfectly the balance needed in the relationship of a designer and the author. As often as the author feels they should leave the designer to create their own concepts, we definitely need direction and guidance! I'm so glad it turned out for you Michael and I think the latest cover is _stunning_!

But I would like to also mention a perception that seems to be growing: Simplicity=cheap. That if a cover is only a photo and text it only took the designer 10 minutes. Just because his first rounds are clean and simple doesn't mean they haven't taken time or energy to brainstorm concepts and communicate the message of the book through symbolism and other semiotics. In this situation it did sound like, unfortunately, Damonza perhaps didn't get to read the MS. But I'm talking about as a general perception.

Pre-mades are great because yes, they're clean and simple and beautiful. The best are all in alignment with design principles, use effective typography and are eye catching. But when it comes to an author asking for something unique for their book don't assume time wasn't invested just because it has the same feel. When I read the MS of the author I'm working with I gather concepts, and I look for strong symbolism. If I feel this can be portrayed most effectively in a simple image compared to something that has a lot of photomanipulation, a lot of action or colour or image treatments, then I will always go with that.

This doesn't mean it took me 10 minutes to put it together because I found a good stock image. It means I took the time to think about concepts, brainstorming, reading the MS, and using the most simple way to convey a message on the cover. It means I think outsite of a literal visual of the story. So all I'm asking is keep your mind open when it comes to design. Simplicity doesn't mean we've sacrificed time or energy on your project, nor does it mean we've just stuck on some random stock image and away we went. Some of the best book cover design I've ever seen use wit and strategy in a simple photo, so don't underestimate the power of simplicity! 

_/*This doesn't apply to this specific situation with Damonza as I understand it was a lack of clarity on their side. I wanted to share my thoughts on this in general so that the idea of "Photo + Text = cheap/10 minute job" doesn't begin to grow*/_


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

EdShull said:


> Everything was fantastic! I'm really happy with my cover. Damon hit it out of the park with the second round, and has shown the patience of a saint when it comes to my nit picky requests. Turnaround has been fast. I can't see ever using anyone else at this point.
> 
> Learn from my mistake, give him a good summary of the book, break down of the characters and who you want to market to. I tired to be more vague, so as to not limit his creativity. I was wrong. Be specific and he will not disappoint.


Along with what Scarlett said, this. Never leave designer to ''just do what you want'' and never be afraid to say what you like/don't like. Having an outline of your book is great, you can't always read the book in full because of short turnaround time (designers from Pub houses do read them but they have Months to design covers, yes months, and pay from $1000-4000).

Simple isn't always easy to come up with and isn't easy to pull off sometimes. Pre-made covers cost way cheaper because designer doesn't have to worry about what author thinks when working on it. You just do what you like and put them up on sale. Who likes it, buys it. When working with an author you actually have teamwork, two people with two visions working to get best option. Designer gives guidance, explanations if needed and educates author about covers etc. And that means much more thought put in, more time, back-and-forth discussions etc. More than just technical design skills. That's why custom designs are worth way more..

I actually loved the Birds concept and out of first drafts I loved 1st and 3rd concepts. Yeah they were simple but that's good and pretty original. Personally I would have chosen one of them over current cover. Still that is subjective as we all have different tastes.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

RBC said:


> Along with what Scarlett said, this. Never leave designer to ''just do what you want'' and never be afraid to say what you like/don't like. Having an outline of your book is great, you can't always read the book in full because of short turnaround time (designers from Pub houses do read them but they have Months to design covers, yes months, and pay from $1000-4000).
> 
> Simple isn't always easy to come up with and isn't easy to pull off sometimes. Pre-made covers cost way cheaper because designer doesn't have to worry about what author thinks when working on it. You just do what you like and put them up on sale. Who likes it, buys it. When working with an author you actually have teamwork, two people with two visions working to get best option. Designer gives guidance, explanations if needed and educates author about covers etc. And that means much more thought put in, more time, back-and-forth discussions etc. More than just technical design skills. That's why custom designs are worth way more..
> 
> I actually loved the Birds concept and out of first drafts I loved 1st and 3rd concepts. Yeah they were simple but that's good and pretty original. Personally I would have chosen one of them over current cover. Still that is subjective as we all have different tastes.


How can you say you would have gone with a different cover, when you don't know what the book is about?


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

EdShull said:


> How can you say you would have gone with a different cover, when you don't know what the book is about?


Because I just found it prettier and more appealing to me. I liked the concept and thought it's interesting take on the title, would have clicked through to read about it on Amazon, not so much with newer version.. as a reader I can't possibly know what the book will be like so I can't judge is cover matching it or not.. all that matters is, is it attractive to reader or not.

Again, that's taste difference. You post different version people will like different things. All of them were good and professional. Author chooses one he likes most.


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## CarlG (Sep 16, 2012)

Damonza has only pretty recently started offering book design and formatting. I wouldn't judge his cover business and other services together. He may not be settled on the guy who is doing that side of it. Book design is an art. Damon is an high-level cover artist. Sorry his book designer hasn't been responsive and doesn't have that fine touch. Got to be frustrating for you, and probably for Damon, too. I hope you've let Damon know. Sounds like you're on a tight schedule which probably doubles the frustration. Might have been better to leave more time in your release schedule for that part of it. It can take time. I don't feel it really reflects on Damon himself, but he better manage his subcontractors or employees better, or he'll start to have his cover biz suffer by association.

On another note, anyone who formats ebook AND print book for $45 (and selects the fonts -- i.e. does the layout/ interior design) and does it well should be so swamped with business that there should be an 18-month waiting period, I would think.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

CarlG said:


> Damonza has only pretty recently started offering book design and formatting. I wouldn't judge his cover business and other services together. He may not be settled on the guy who is doing that side of it. Book design is an art. Damon is an high-level cover artist. Sorry his book designer hasn't been responsive and doesn't have that fine touch. Got to be frustrating for you, and probably for Damon, too. I hope you've let Damon know. Sounds like you're on a tight schedule which probably doubles the frustration. Might have been better to leave more time in your release schedule for that part of it. It can take time. I don't feel it really reflects on Damon himself, but he better manage his subcontractors or employees better, or he'll start to have his cover biz suffer by association.
> 
> On another note, anyone who formats ebook AND print book for $45 (and selects the fonts -- i.e. does the layout/ interior design) and does it well should be so swamped with business that there should be an 18-month waiting period, I would think.


I'm still dealing with the mess. He is sending files over that are all off centered, and asking me to review them. Then I have to review them and send him screenshots showing what he should already be seeing on his side. This isn't a preference issue, the are all off center. He doesn't look at the files before he send them.

And I don't know where the $45 price is from. I'm paying $300 just for the book layout.

I'm about ready to quit this process with him and go somewhere else. Anyone have any suggestions on someone good and fast?


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## RBC (Feb 24, 2013)

EdShull said:


> I'm still dealing with the mess. He is sending files over that are all off centered, and asking me to review them. Then I have to review them and send him screenshots showing what he should already be seeing on his side. This isn't a preference issue, the are all off center. He doesn't look at the files before he send them.
> 
> And I don't know where the $45 price is from. I'm paying $300 just for the book layout.
> 
> I'm about ready to quit this process with him and go somewhere else. Anyone have any suggestions on someone good and fast?


Cheapest option would be this probably, kind of like Pre-made covers.

http://www.bookdesigntemplates.com/

Released by well know designer so should be good. But it's DIY.

Check out Yellow Pages here on Writer's Cafe where you will find different service providers, there must be good folks there to format stuff.


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## Keri Knutson (Apr 10, 2011)

From Alan above:



> That sucks Ed. I found a great guy on oDesk. He formatted my book for eBook and paperback (for CreateSpace POD) and he did a great job. I've used him twice now. Super fast turn around time. And he'll work with you until you're happy. He uses traditional fonts, nothing fancy. You can "look inside" my book on Amazon if you want to check out his work. I paid $45 for the ebook and paperback formatting. I'm pretty sure he can get you squared away pretty quickly.
> 
> https://www.odesk.com/users/~01ef42bf03db13857b


That's where the $45 amount came from.

$300 for book layout (unless you're getting something really custom and fancy, or you have a ton of pictures and tables inside the book) strikes me as really exhorbitant.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

CarlG said:


> On another note, anyone who formats ebook AND print book for $45 (and selects the fonts -- i.e. does the layout/ interior design) and does it well should be so swamped with business that there should be an 18-month waiting period, I would think.


That's why I debated sharing his link on the forum. I was just going to PM Ed, but I felt that was very selfish and bad karma to keep possible business away from a good guy, just becuse I want to keep him hidden away for myself.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Keri Knutson said:


> From Alan above:
> 
> That's where the $45 amount came from.
> 
> $300 for book layout (unless you're getting something really custom and fancy, or you have a ton of pictures and tables inside the book) strikes me as really exhorbitant.


I'll have to check him out. $300 was a lot, but I was hoping that would mean I would get good service. This is impossibly bad. Now I had to explain for the 3rd time that the ebook has a different ISBN. Not going well.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

He is now surprised that I want the cover included in the ebook file. We are going past 100 email exchanges to get this thing formatted. I had to QA on ever device myself, and tell him which look bad. I get this is my book, and in the end my responsibility, which is why I'm doing the QA. But he clearly didn't check any of the work before sending it over. This is really, really bad.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

EdShull said:


> I'll have to check him out. $300 was a lot, but I was hoping that would mean I would get good service. This is impossibly bad. Now I had to explain for the 3rd time that the ebook has a different ISBN. Not going well.


Not sure if you've done this, but you might want to escalate this to Damon. He might not know what a bad time you're having and can get things going for you in the right direction.


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## Darren Wearmouth (Jan 28, 2013)

This formatting bloke sounds like a disaster. 

If I were you I'd be asking for a refund Mr Shull.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Alan Petersen said:


> Not sure if you've done this, but you might want to escalate this to Damon. He might not know what a bad time you're having and can get things going for you in the right direction.


I did email Damon last night, and he apologize and said Benjamin's brother got married and that's was the cause for the delay. I'm not sure if his brother getting married has also created these issues.

I am really not comfortable trusting what he sends over. Damon rocks at covers, but this guy has been so bad, it makes me question using the service all together. Bad formatting, no QA, wrong ISBN, no cover added, took 5 days just to reply, formatted the wrong manuscript, and then wanted to charge me to fix it. This guy is a disaster.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

I just pulled the trigger on a new cover for The Hall of the Wood with Damonza. If it works out, and I don't see why it wouldn't, I've got another 5 covers lined up for him (2 upfront, the others later on).


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Well, that was fast... I already received an email from Damon saying he'll get the drafts to me within 10-12 days.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Congrats, Scott. Make sure to share what he comes up with, I'm looking forward to seeing it.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

EdShull said:


> Congrats, Scott. Make sure to share what he comes up with, I'm looking forward to seeing it.


Me, too.


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## Eric C (Aug 3, 2009)

scottmarlowe said:


> Well, that was fast... I already received an email from Damon saying he'll get the drafts to me within 10-12 days.


I got the same email and he actually turned it around in three or four days.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

Eric C said:


> I got the same email and he actually turned it around in three or four days.


Wow, that was good timing. I just gave him 2 more projects a week ago. I'm hoping to get something back soon.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

EdShull said:


> Wow, that was good timing. I just gave him 2 more projects a week ago. I'm hoping to get something back soon.


The guy is busy!


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Nine days and counting! I'm getting anxious to see what Damonza comes up with for HOTW. He did say 10-12 days, so I might see something this weekend.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

scottmarlowe said:


> Nine days and counting! I'm getting anxious to see what Damonza comes up with for HOTW. He did say 10-12 days, so I might see something this weekend.


Yeah, he's a busy guy. I'm sure it will turn out well.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

I wonder what the record is for change requests with Damonza? I'm at 3 now. Waiting for the next one. He's definitely getting closer. We just need to nail down one last image.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

scottmarlowe said:


> I wonder what the record is for change requests with Damonza? I'm at 3 now. Waiting for the next one. He's definitely getting closer. We just need to nail down one last image.


I would suspect you're not even close to that record.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Alan Petersen said:


> I would suspect you're not even close to that record.


Ha, ha. I sure hope not. That's a record I really don't want. Would like this done with soon.

I sent him an image to try. Figured it might speed things along rather than going back and forth.


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## Todd Young (May 2, 2011)

EdShull said:


> One word of caution on working with Damon. I selected the Premium Combo package for $720, that included layout. I'm new to all this, so I wanted to make sure I got everything formatted correctly.
> 
> They tout 48 hour turnaround. I sent my file on the 13th, and on the 18th I finally heard back with Benjamin asking for a Word file. I had sent a Word file and re-sent it. He replied that he had gotten it and it was his mistake. He then sent over a layout that included a some really funky fonts for the headers. I mean, like the kind you would use in a children's book. Which would be fine, if I wrote a children's book. He included a note saying he didn't know what my book was about, so he used that font. I'll set aside the fact that this font, and I'll post a pic for anyone who wants to see it, is clearly not a good default "safe' choice for a book. But I am a little upset that I spent an hour putting together a 6 page summary that I know they received because Damon did such a great job with the cover. But even with just the sparse description I gave, it's clear it's not a child's book.
> 
> ...


The first line in a print book, and the first line of every new chapter or section break should not be indented as this is.


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## Scarlett_R (Sep 30, 2011)

scottmarlowe said:


> Ha, ha. I sure hope not. That's a record I really don't want. Would like this done with soon.
> 
> I sent him an image to try. Figured it might speed things along rather than going back and forth.


Don't be disappointed Scott, I go through a lot of back and forth-ing with all of my clients. 3 rounds is nothing! It's a really important part of the process, and necessary to ensure you get the cover you want


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

Damon gets my recommendation with this one. I'm pretty happy with it.


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