# Indie Historical Novel Thread



## JRTomlin

Other genres have them but we're a bit of the "red-headed stepchild" of genres. We need to demand a place at the table. 

Strict historical, historical time-travel, historical romance, historical mystery. What is your sub-genre?

Mine is strict historical.


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## Gertie Kindle

Historical Romance with an historical background.

Set in the Wars of the Roses, Ariana's Pride commences from the historic Battle of Barnet when Edward IV returned from Holland to take the throne back from the mad king, Henry VI.

Turned out of her home, Ariana sets out on a dark and dangerous journey to a destiny she couldn't have foreseen.


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## Paul Clayton

I would say, Historical Thriller.  Ken Follett, are you following this thread?  Check out White Seed for a damn good read!


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## D.R. Erickson

*The War God's Men*. Carthage and Rome at war.

Jim Cobb of the Wargamer calls it "informative and exciting."


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## Dana Taylor

Thanks, JR, starting this thread.

I have one book that is definitely faux-historical. Complete and utter destruction of English history.










"Princess Robin" is a romantic twist of the Robin Hood legend, just for fun!

Dana Taylor


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## Carol (was Dara)

I write historical mysteries but I love to read just about anything in a historical setting. My favorite eras (in no particular order) are:

Regency
Victorian
Ancient World
Medieval 
Renaissance


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## JRTomlin

I didn't think of historical thriller. That's a good point. Alternative history could fit as well.


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## Adria Townsend

Hi, thanks for starting the thread.  

Mine is historical romance set in Germany's Black Forest during the late 1700s.


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## Sarah Woodbury

Thanks for starting this thread!

I have five that are all historical fantasy, with three of the time travel/alternative history ilk (Footsteps in Time/Prince of Time/Daughter of Time), a King Arthur novel (Cold My Heart), and one that is mythological/paranormal (The Last Pendragon).  All are set in dark age and medieval Wales


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## CJArcher

Great thread.  Mine are historical romance mostly in Elizabethan England but one is alternate Victorian.  I'll be releasing a new Elizabethan one soon which features Shakespeare as a minor character.

As a reader I love all historical time periods.  Fiction is such a fun way to learn about history.


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## jabeard

My main WIP right now is a Regency paranormal romance.

I have a plan to write a historical mystery (Heian Japan), but I'm so overwhelmed with edits on my other WIPs that I might not get to that until next year.


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## Amy Corwin

What a great idea! Thanks for starting this thread.
I have several historical books out, including my indie historical mystery, The Vital Principle, and several lighter historical mysteries published by small press.

I love reading historical books--especially mysteries. As a lot of folks pointed out, it's a fun way to learn weird and wonderful things. I don't really have a favorite period--I read everything. But I have set most of my books at the beginning of the 19th century. that's such an interesting period as it's sort of the dawn of science as we know it today.

Anyway, thanks!


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## harpwriter

_Blue Bells of Scotland: _Historical fiction with twists of time travel, look-alikes, and mistaken identity.


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## JJayKamp

I have a romance set in 1790s Belize, so that's historical, right?






Great thanks and warm fuzzy thoughts go out to all who click on my book!


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## Grace Elliot

Great - a safe place for historical fans to congregate and chat! Cracking idea!

I write historical romances set in the regency period (my WIP and the next 2 novels anyway, the one after that may well be set in Victorian times) I devour any books set in the past from whatever subdivision of historicals. 

My debut novel, A Dead Man's Debt, is a story of blackmail, duty and unexpected love, set against the backdrop of Regency England. 

Lovely to meet you all! 
Grace x


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## JRTomlin

Ah, good point to talk a little about what our novels are about besides historical. Mine are medieval set in Scotland during the Scottish War of Independence as the Scots fight off the invasion of England's Edward I. 

They are about war, honor and adventure with a little romance thrown in because being in the midst of a war doesn't mean you don't fall in love--quite the contrary.


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## Alex Sinclair

I have three historical books, two are novells, one is a free read on smashbooks called, Before The Dawn. The other is, Under The Midnight Sky, and is based in the samurai era. I have a book coming out in October called, The Flames of Winter, it is semi-historical. It is all about demons and angels. One story is a back story that takes up half the novel and is a historical novel in europe, the other half is a demon bloodbath set in todays world, lol. I found two of them hard to write, but, Under the Midnight Sky, was fun because I teach martial arts and the japanese long sword so I had a wealth of knowledge I could apply to the story.


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## dwschlueter

I don't personally write these but I help a few select people with their publishing and here is the first one that has been released . She has many more on the way.


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## Bob Mayer

After 45 books in other genres, I've entered historical fiction with Duty, Honor Country.  I'm sending out galley, review copies right now all over the place and it's interesting.  One nice thing about historical fiction is that it won't ever go out of date.
In my Atlantis books I wrote a lot of historical stuff, as half of the last five books were focused around significant battles in the past.  i just got back from Shiloh and will be going to Gettysburg and Antietam again this summer for more research.


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## Tess St John

Second Chances is Historical Romance.

So happy to see this thread!


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## JimC1946

Paper Woman by Suzanne Adair was first rate Revolutionary War historical fiction. I gave it five stars.


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## JRTomlin

What? That's all the historical fiction writers? Nah. I don't believe that.


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## AmberQueen

I write historical mysteries. I have three out, all set in the 1920s against the backdrop of the Harlem Renaissance.

HARLEM REDUX features David McKay, the prodigal son of a wealthy family, who returns home after a four-year absence, devastated by the news of his sister's suicide. Burdened by a secret of his own, he tries to find out the truth behind her death and in doing so unleashes forces that could redeem -- or destroy -- him.

DARKNESS AND THE DEVIL BEHIND ME is the first in the Lanie Price series. Lanie is a society reporter, sort of a 1920s Dominick Dunne, in that she covers the good, the bad, and the at times very ugly among Harlem's smart set. In the first one, the sister of a young beautiful pianist who disappeared during a Christmas snow storm asks for Price's help. The result is a story that could well cost Lanie her life.

BLACK ORCHID BLUES is the second in the Price series. Here Lanie witnesses the brutal kidnapping of a cabaret singer, Queenie Lovetree, also known as the Black Orchid. Lanie then gets caught up in the desperate attempt to save the singer's life, but in doing so uncovers some very ugly and dangerous secrets. _Bookgasm_ said it has the ambiance of a classic pulp-era serial. I like that!


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## JRTomlin

Welcome to the historical thread. 

The Harlem Renaissance was a fascinating period in American history.


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## jabeard

I'm curious if any of you all have ever wanted to write a story but basically held back because you just didn't feel you had the command of the material or if you just went ahead and then researched after the fact to add in the appropriate detail.

I'm definitely in the former camp. I'm bursting with a lot of ideas, but find I can't write a single sentence without pretty solid confidence in my period knowledge. In my last historical work, I was surprised how well this informed every little detail. It also was quite handy when some writing group partner or beta reader would insist I got some detail wrong and I could point to my sources.

Speaking of the last bit, has anyone had that trouble? A lot of time people's expectations of history are formed more by popular imagination and movies than actual history. In the process of getting one of my Regency stories critiqued, a person insisted several details were wrong and when I showed her primary source documentation to why I did it that way, she basically explained she thought they were wrong just because she hadn't seen the details in the various Regency novels of a few of her favorite authors.

I'm sure all of you who write medieval stuff have to deal with the clash between Hollywood Middle Ages and the real Middle Ages.

Is it better, people think, to somewhat be relaxed and accept that certain people are going to believe in the popular/Hollywood truth or do you keep it strictly historical?


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## AmberQueen

JRTomlin said:


> Welcome to the historical thread.
> 
> The Harlem Renaissance was a fascinating period in American history.


Thanks! And thanks for starting this thread!


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## AmberQueen

I try to keep it strictly historical. That way, my conscience is clear.


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## J.S. Staffier

I have my Versailles novel coming out shortly.  Stay turned "MA" fans!
JSS


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## JRTomlin

jabeard said:


> I'm curious if any of you all have ever wanted to write a story but basically held back because you just didn't feel you had the command of the material or if you just went ahead and then researched after the fact to add in the appropriate detail.
> 
> I'm definitely in the former camp. I'm bursting with a lot of ideas, but find I can't write a single sentence without pretty solid confidence in my period knowledge. In my last historical work, I was surprised how well this informed every little detail. It also was quite handy when some writing group partner or beta reader would insist I got some detail wrong and I could point to my sources.
> 
> Speaking of the last bit, has anyone had that trouble? A lot of time people's expectations of history are formed more by popular imagination and movies than actual history. In the process of getting one of my Regency stories critiqued, a person insisted several details were wrong and when I showed her primary source documentation to why I did it that way, she basically explained she thought they were wrong just because she hadn't seen the details in the various Regency novels of a few of her favorite authors.
> 
> I'm sure all of you who write medieval stuff have to deal with the clash between Hollywood Middle Ages and the real Middle Ages.
> 
> Is it better, people think, to somewhat be relaxed and accept that certain people are going to believe in the popular/Hollywood truth or do you keep it strictly historical?


Oh, many people have very wrong ideas medieval stuff, especially Scottish medieval stuff. People don't realize that almost everything in the movie _Braveheart_ is wrong. Except that William Wallace was killed and that Edward I first was a *ahem* "not-nice-person", there wasn't a single thing in it that was right but then someone reads a well-researched novel and tells you that you must be wrong.

Of course, that's true of most movies about the middle ages. Very few of them get much of anything right, but that one is particularly bad.

Things like horses and weapons. Men didn't ride war horses (destriers) except to battle, for example and swords were not heavy, but when you say that in a novel someone says you're wrong. All kinds of things. So sure that happens. I guess you just have to deal with it. I keep it strictly historical, but I can see someone compromising rather than fighting the stereotypes out there. My medieval Scots don't wear kilts--because medieval Scots didn't. But I sometimes suspect my reader is visualizing them in kilts and what can you do? LOL

As far as the research, I write about medieval Scotland because I know about it and knew about it long before I started writing historical novels. It sometimes scares me a bit how much I know about it. I know more about the historical characters than I do about my own family it seems like. I might forget my daughter's birthday but not the anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn. (24 June 1314 in case you wondered) LOL

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to start from scratch about a period you don't know about. The foods, clothing, customs, the buildings, transporation... you have to know it all. A good historical writer in my opinion could move into the period and get by. I've always thought it would be interesting to write novels set in Carthage and about what jerks the Romans were but learning a new civilization is impossibly daunting. So I doubt I'll ever do it.


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## Justin Alexander

JRTomlin said:


> Oh, many people have very wrong ideas medieval stuff, especially Scottish medieval stuff.


This is something my mother feels quite passionate about in her books and stories: Getting it right is frequently more interesting and more dramatic than getting it cliched.

(She writes the Dame Frevisse and Player Joliffe series, both set in 15th century England.)


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## MartinLake

Wonderful. A forum for historical fiction. I woke this morning and thought it would be great if there was such a forum and, spookily, JR replied to my post of yesterday and pointed me in this direction.

I loved the discussion about research. I fell foul recently when I discovered an inter-active web-site of the Domesday Survey. A new novel I am completing is now littered with places and names from the site which are not needed or interesting. I shall have to be ruthless with my pruning.

Here is some information about my book which is available on Kindle and Smashwords. I've also started a thread on my blog about This day in history which I'm enjoying putting together. The blog can be found at martinlake.blogspot.com

_*The Lost King: Resistance. A long-suppressed story of resistance to foreign invasion. Available for 70p, $1.14 or €0.99*_

I hope that my historical adventure will be of interest to you.

The Lost King tells the story of the last English King of England, Edgar Atheling. His name and exploits have been almost totally erased from the history books by the Norman conquerors.

One day in late October 1066 thirteen year old Edgar Atheling's life changes forever. He learns that his hero, Harold Godwinson, has been slain on the battlefield of Hastings.

A few hours later he is proclaimed King of England. A week later he faces the Norman invaders in battle.

Two months after becoming king, Edgar is deserted by his supporters, forced to submit to Duke William and watch while he ascends the throne. Edgar does not stay cowed for long, however. Eighteen months later, horrified by the sufferings of the English, he decides to challenge William and win back the kingdom.

Edgar goes north to King Malcolm of Scotland. With the support of Malcolm and a Danish army, Edgar launches a war of resistance against the Normans which will prove the greatest challenge ever faced by William. The whole of England rises in support of Edgar.

The Lost King: Resistance tells the first part of a story of defiance which has been kept hidden for a thousand years. It is a coming of age story from an age very different from our own.

Reviews.

'A novel full of intrigue and action that made gripping reading.'

'Convincing and full of atmosphere.'

'A fast-paced historical adventure utilizing colourful and complex characters to tell a truly dramatic story.'

Available for 70p in the UK, $1.14 in the USA and €0.99 in Europe.

The Lost King: Resistance



Martin Lake


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## CJArcher

JRTomlin said:


> I've always thought it would be interesting to write novels set in Carthage and about what jerks the Romans were but learning a new civilization is impossibly daunting. So I doubt I'll ever do it.


Me too, JR. I'm fascinated with everything Roman but I just don't have the depth of knowledge that I do with the Tudor/Elizabethan so I haven't yet attempted to set a book then. Pity, because I have a few good ideas.


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## JRTomlin

Exactly. To do historical fiction convincingly, you have to be really steeped in the culture and period. I grew up reading non-fiction about Scottish history and studied medieval history at university so writing about is writing about what I know and love both. 

Maybe I'll look for some good non-fiction on Carthage though. When I finish this trilogy I'm working on and possibly a sequel to Freedom's Sword... 

And welcome to the party, Martin. We'll never have as large a forum as the Romance folks but maybe we can bring a little more attention to all of our work. I hope so.


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## MH Sargent

Historical mystery.

A WWII novel depicting the honor and patriotism of Japanese-Americans.

On Bainbridge Island, Washington, over 250 Japanese-Americans are being evacuated to an internment camp. But a young fisherman is missing. When authorities search for him, they find two murdered Caucasians. A Seattle detective then investigates the murders, which points in the direction of the missing Japanese-American fisherman. But how does his vanishing act tie into the murders?

_Toward Night's End_


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## Lisa J. Yarde

I write historicals as well, mostly medieval from the 11th to the 13th century, though I have two other manuscripts in draft, one set in 5th century Gupta India and the other, a 17th century work on Barbary pirates. I like to say I write historical fiction with romantic elements (at least my first four works will be that), but I reject the idea that they are historical romances - nothing against the subgenre but my work doesn't fit the formula for it.

I'm also curious about the length of time other writers spend researching and writing their historicals. I started in 1996 with what has become my second book. I didn't finish the research and writing until 2005. My second manuscript, which I published first, took three years from inception to finish. Obviously I'm not one of those "book a year" writers. What are the averages for others?


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## JRTomlin

Because I was already well-read on that period of Scottish history and had a substantial personal library of non-fiction on it, I didn't really spend any time specifically on research, but this isn't something I'd advise unless it's a period you are extremely well-read on. I constantly double-checked my memory though and wrote with a stack of books next to my computer so I could be sure of the exact dates and numbers of armies and who did what. So I suppose in a way I spent a lot of time on research but it was mixed in with the writing. There was hardly a page when I wasn't double checking something. 

For me a novel normally takes about six months to write and that's about how long both of my historical novels took. I hope my next one (a sequel to A Kingdom's Cost although that works perfectly well, I believe, as a stand alone novel) will take a bit less time, but I can't guarantee it.


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## MartinLake

Hi everyone. An interesting question about how long it takes to write and research.

I was fascinated and surprised to discover that I started my historical novel The Lost King: Resistance in 2003 and only finished it last year. That was less the research (I knew the period well) and more the writing, plus a whole lot of life to be lived including getting married. The Lost King: Resistance

I am currently writing a novel set in the Kingdom of Jerusalem in the 12th century and am surprised that I am writing this much more quickly. Some things have really helped: using a time-line, making a list of characters' ages, using power-point to story-board and so on. Plus the whole period is so full of unbelieveable characters.

Martin


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## JRTomlin

MartinLake said:


> Hi everyone. An interesting question about how long it takes to write and research.
> 
> I was fascinated and surprised to discover that I started my historical novel The Lost King: Resistance in 2003 and only finished it last year. That was less the research (I knew the period well) and more the writing, plus a whole lot of life to be lived including getting married. The Lost King: Resistance
> 
> I am currently writing a novel set in the Kingdom of Jerusalem in the 12th century and am surprised that I am writing this much more quickly. Some things have really helped: using a time-line, making a list of characters' ages, using power-point to story-board and so on. Plus the whole period is so full of unbelieveable characters.
> 
> Martin


Using a time-line is an interesting point. I use one also and it's a huge help.

I've never used a story-board though. How does that work?


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## MartinLake

Story boards are a film industry concept (Disney's idea I've heard but not sure how true this is.)  They were sketches of the scenes of a film.

I use them in this way.  I now think of my novel in scenes instead of chapters.  I use Power-point, one slide for each scene and put the action, dates etc on each slide.  I can then easily add new scene_slides as I write, or move one scene-slide to a different location.

So far I've found it very useful.  Here are a couple of my scene-slide.  

Arrival
Thomas and Simon arrive in Jerusalem.  They meet the family
The army has left for Hattin
First inklings of religious conflict
They are taken round the city and meet Alexius the moneychanger
He advises them not to stay
June 17 1187

Befriending
The Ferriers decide to stay at the inn
Thomas realises his passion for Agnes and his sin rises in his thoughts
They meet Alexius at the inn who says he is leaving for Constantinople
They hear about the army marching to fight Saladin
June 18 1187

and so on.  I've never used it before but love it.


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## MartinLake

I've been busily tagging on the main board and it's made a difference and realised that I ought to start with the books on here.

I haven't time for the next few days but will start to tag on Friday.

I'd be delighted if you could tag my books: The Lost King: Resistance

and Pick and Mix

Best wishes

Martin


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## JRTomlin

Good idea, Martin. 

Ah, well, story boarding wouldn't work for me since I have NO idea what my scenes will be until I write them. I know the overall plot because it's dictated by Scottish history, but beyond that I am strictly a "seat of the pants" writer. Much of what happens in my novels is a bigger surprise to me than it is to my readers.


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## Paul Clayton

JRTomlin said:


> I didn't think of historical thriller. That's a good point. Alternative history could fit as well.


Ha ha!


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## JRTomlin

Paul Clayton said:


> Ha ha!


I'm not quite sure the point of your reaction. That alternative history might not be a form of historical novel? Some are very well researched so I'm not sure that I agree, but we all have our own opinions on these things. I am more likely to wince at including historical romance. 

Even defining historical fiction as a genre opens a whole can of worms. I think there is no genre more difficult to define.


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## SpearsII

Awesome thread!

My wife writes historical fiction and we talk about this stuff all the time. We both have a love of history and its cool to see all the other historical fiction writers on KB. My wife takes about two years to write a book but is slowly getting a bit faster. It is easy to get a little envious of other writers who can craft their story unrestricted by actual events and the necessary research. Of course my job as marketing can't start till I get the story so maybe I am bit impatient . I watch my wife spend hours reading primary and not so primary sources so she can deliver a good story. I think the real trick though is to balance the fiction with the history. The fiction takes off from where history is silent. I think the history should lead to the story not be the story, otherwise I can just read a history book. I think _Gates of Fire_ by Pressfield is one of my favorite examples of filling out the history with story.

And yes, one of my wife's biggest pet peeves is how the Middle Ages is so maligned in Pop-culture and Hollywood.

My wife writes with what I would call a loose outline style. She sets the story according to the history but is flexible with the scenes. Write with a plan, but remember plans change.

Good luck with your own history making and thanks again for this cool tread.


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## jabeard

I've just started a massive research project for a Heian-era Japan historical mystery. I'm actually very familiar with the period, but I just need to really internalize the small details that help bring an era alive in fiction. I'm guessing it's going to take me a year or so before I'm even finished with my research. 

Of course, that's one thing I love about historical fiction, you're always learning something during the research even if you never get around to applying it.


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## JRTomlin

SpearsII said:


> Awesome thread!
> 
> My wife writes historical fiction and we talk about this stuff all the time. We both have a love of history and its cool to see all the other historical fiction writers on KB. My wife takes about two years to write a book but is slowly getting a bit faster. It is easy to get a little envious of other writers who can craft their story unrestricted by actual events and the necessary research. Of course my job as marketing can't start till I get the story so maybe I am bit impatient . I watch my wife spend hours reading primary and not so primary sources so she can deliver a good story. I think the real trick though is to balance the fiction with the history. The fiction takes off from where history is silent. I think the history should lead to the story not be the story, otherwise I can just read a history book. I think _Gates of Fire_ by Pressfield is one of my favorite examples of filling out the history with story.
> 
> And yes, one of my wife's biggest pet peeves is how the Middle Ages is so maligned in Pop-culture and Hollywood.
> 
> My wife writes with what I would call a loose outline style. She sets the story according to the history but is flexible with the scenes. Write with a plan, but remember plans change.
> 
> Good luck with your own history making and thanks again for this cool tread.


The vast misrepresentation of the Middle Ages is horrifying. There are exceptions such as the marvelous PBS series on Caedfael but those are so rare.

The time you have to spend researching really is dependent on how steeped you already are in the history. Even so, I write with a stack of references beside my computer so I can double check details.

When was it that James Douglas did personal combat with the Peacock of the North and killed him on the field of battle? Aha. *smug smile* I thought so.


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## CJArcher

jabeard said:


> I'm actually very familiar with the period, but I just need to really internalize the small details that help bring an era alive in fiction.


You're so right. It is the small details that bring history to life, and I find those are the hardest to research. It's easy to pick up a text and learn about the politics, religion or monarchies of an era but finding out the day-to-day stuff that an average person did can be harder. For my Elizabethan English stuff I use Liza Picard's Elizabeth's London which has lots of fascinating detail and she writes in a very accessible style with a wry sense of humour.


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## Alex Sinclair

I have written a historical, but I found the biggest challenge was doing something different to what is already on the market. I think my main issue was that several of the historicals I read just seemed really similiar, which kind of left me slightly frustrated. I decided to set, Under The Midnight Sky, in Japan during the Samurai era, which was a fun story to write and no where near as difficult as I thought it would be, lol.


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## MartinLake

Hi Alex,

I'm intrigued by your saying that books are similar.  In what way do you mean?

Martin


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## Alex Sinclair

Hi Martin, how to explain... I think two good authors can take the same character, in the same time period and tell similiar stories. It could be based on fact, BUT the writing styles will feel different. The atmosphere of the story will feel different. The feeling I have for the characters will be different. The books I read didn't have that. It was very same old, same old. The plot structure, the settings, the dialogue feels almost identical and so its hard to get into. I am not saying this about all historical books, no way. I love historicals. I just found the last few so dull, but I had the same thing with fantasy books I read. It was like this "theme" has been done to death, but has been done better by other authors and that frustrates me. I hope this makes sense, lol.


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## jabeard

Alex,

I'm a bit confused. I'm a huge fan of Japanese history, so I downloaded a sample of your story. I'm a bit confused about where and when it's set (the 'samurai era' basically covers several different distinct eras over a good six hundred year span). No one has a Japanese name (at least in the sample pages). Are those supposed to be Westerners?


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## Shayne Parkinson

Oh, I didn't realise this thread existed! I'm delighted to have found it.

Using the parameters of the opening post, mine are "strict historical". I think of them as social-historical fiction (which may not exist as an official sub-genre) - social history in a fictional setting, one that's as accurate as my research can make it. I'm fascinated by social history, especially that of "ordinary" people.

My books are set in New Zealand, starting in 1881 and up to 1908 so far. The w-i-p covers the period up to 1918.

The blurb for Book 1, _Sentence of Marriage_:

-----

"I won't have her forced," Jack said. "Let her decide for herself."

Amy knew her father meant it. She could say no if she wanted. But this marriage would make everything all right. They could put all the trouble she had caused behind them. Everyone would be happy again.

Everyone except her.

"Sentence of Marriage" is the first book in the three-volume "Promises to Keep".

In nineteenth century New Zealand, there are few choices for a farm girl like Amy. Her life seems mapped out for her by the time she is twelve. Amy dreams of an exciting life in the world beyond her narrow boundaries. But it is the two people who come to the farm from outside the valley who change her life forever, and Amy learns the high cost of making the wrong choice.

-----


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## Kris Bock

Hi, just discovered this thread. You'll see my author name posted as Kris Bock -- under that name, I write romantic suspense for adults, (contemporary, though _Rattled _does involve a history professor searching for a long-lost treasure). As Chris Eboch, I write for children, and my work includes two historical fiction titles for ages nine and up.

_The Well of Sacrifice_, first published in 1999 and now available on Kindle, is set in 19th century Mayan times. You could call it an adventure story or a drama. A 14-year-old girl tries to save her city from a power-hungry high priest who sacrifices anyone who stands in his way.

My newest novel for kids is _The Eyes of Pharaoh_, a mystery set in ancient Egypt. Here's the blurb: When Reya hints that Egypt is in danger from foreign nomads, Seshta and Horus don't take him seriously. How could anyone challenge Egypt? Then Reya disappears. To save their friend, Seshta and Horus spy on merchants, soldiers, and royalty, and start to suspect even The Eyes of Pharaoh, the powerful head of the secret police. Will Seshta and Horus escape the traps set for them, rescue Reya, and stop the plot against Egypt in time? 
For ages nine and up. $7.99 paperback, $2.99 e-book.

Excerpts of each are posted on my website: www.chriseboch.com. _The Well of Sacrifice_ has been used in a lot of schools when they teach the Maya in fourth or fifth grade. I'm hoping to get _The Eyes of Pharaoh_ into some schools as well. Kids and teachers often love ancient Egypt!

It's interesting how many different eras and parts of the world are mentioned on this list. My preference has always been for ancient history. As a bonus, I don't have to worry about when certain words came into use. I figure I am "translating" the casual conversation of the time, so I can use normal English (avoiding slang which would sound odd, of course).


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## Shayne Parkinson

Regarding timelines: I use these a lot, too. Keeping track of when all those babies are born, and making sure it's within the bounds of physical possibility; being aware of historical events and how they're having an impact on the characters. With the w-i-p covering the years of WWI, I need to take into account how long it took for the troopships to get to England, and how long the men spent in training camps, then work backwards from the battle I want a soldier to have been at to work out when he would have been called up. 

I also have a spreadsheet to keep track of how old characters are year-by-year, so I know when someone's likely to leave school, marry, be conscripted; what class a child's in, etc.


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## MartinLake

Thanks Alex,

I guess that what you have outlined here is the difference between good writing and poor writing, between an author who has an individual voice and slant and one who writes like others in the genre, almost like a formula.  

I so agree with you.  I'm just hoping that I'm the first type of author and not the second. lol.

Martin


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## JRTomlin

Some fascinating stuff here. I've added some to my TR list. My current W-I-P is a sequel to A Kingdom's Cost in the continuation of the Scottish Wars as James Douglas continues his battle for freedom and his struggle with what it means to be a patriot.


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## Linda Acaster

Oh thumbs up for starting the thread, thanks.

My historicals are Historical Romances - yeah, I know someone above curled their lip but in the real world that was what the publisher demanded, and we parted company because I refused to put the romance before historical accuracy. Don't regret that one bit.

_Beneath The Shining Mountains_ came out of the fact that I was a Native American re-enactor across here in the UK, and my house is filled with books, many from US university presses.

_Hostage of the Heart_ is set on the eve of the Battle of Stamford Bridge (first of the 1066 battles - against the Norse) but set on the English-Welsh borders. It's more intrigue than history, exploring the role of battle hostages.

Even _Torc of Moonlight_ which is a contemporary supernatural thriller, needed plenty of historical research into the role of Celtic water goddesses and the Roman occupying force just to ensure aspects that come out in the fiction are correct.

I shall bookmark the thread and call back. Got to make dinner.

Linda (Hi Shayne ~waves~)


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## MartinLake

Hi Linda,

Welcome to this thread which is getting more exciting by the day.

I am interested to see that you write about just before Stamford Bridge. My historical novel The Lost King: Resistance is set a little after the Battle of Hastings.

I don't know if you have seen the amazing on-line site for the Domesday Book. I found it so helpful when I was writing the second of my novels.

I've just had a look at your book and look forward to reading it.

Martin


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## Linda Acaster

"Dinner" took longer than anticipated - LOL!

Hi Martin. Interesting that you are looking at _Hostage of the Heart_, tho I'm not sure you'd enjoy it as its totally from a woman's point of view. The Native American one goes down better with blokes as it's multi viewpoint and deals a lot with what it was like being invited onto horse raids and fighting for your family.

Regarding the Domesday Book online, I've not delved. I bought the couple of print books that deal with my area and found them absolutely fascinating. I would do more research online if it were going back to the period.

Regarding yours, I think you need to change the cover: it looks too modern. Either that or put a tagline in the dark section at the bottom, something attention-grabbing.

"1066 // The Battle of Stamford Bridge is won // The Battle of Hastings is lost // The new English king is crowned... but he's only 14 years old and Duke William is riding to take it from him..."

Far too long. It sounds more like a product description (LOL)

Have you come across these two? 
_The Forgotten Battle of 1066 - Fulford_ by Charles Jones? (nonfiction)I was at the Jorvik Viking Festival at York a couple of years ago and he did a battle field walk of it - most interesting.
_Unconquered_ by Sieran Vale (fiction) a chronicle of Earl Morcar of North Humbria while a prisoner after the uprising. I haven't read it (yet); it's quite a doorstop, but the Author's notes at the back look decent. One of those books I bought for future reference, like you do.

Linda


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## SpearsII

Here is a question, how many sources do you use as you write your HF? For my wife's up and coming book she used about 13 histories along with some online resources. I was wondering how many books others used for their own research and fact checking? Like JRTomlin my wife always had a big stack of books next to her computer.


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## Shayne Parkinson

SpearsII said:


> Here is a question, how many sources do you use as you write your HF?


A succinct answer is "lots". 

I tend to read sources on specific areas. For example, I've half a dozen books about the Great War currently scattered about, including one entire book on the subject of conscription in New Zealand for WWI. For an earlier book, I read several histories of the Highland Clearances, because of their influence on one character.

I've inherited some old farm diaries, to, which are invaluable for the feel of day-to-day life.

I used to spend painful hours squinting at microfilm newspaper archives, which was guaranteed to give me a migraine. Now there's a wondrous resource: online scans of several old newspapers. I can check them from the comfort of my home! Great for checking prices, current political commentary, how the big news items were being reported.

There are some excellent online sources for New Zealand history, run by the appropriate government departments, that I sometimes use. They have very good bibliographies, so can be a useful stepping-off point, too.


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## Linda Acaster

SpearsII said:


> Here is a question, how many sources do you use as you write your HF? For my wife's up and coming book she used about 13 histories along with some online resources. I was wondering how many books others used for their own research and fact checking? Like JRTomlin my wife always had a big stack of books next to her computer.


Shayne's "lots" marks it well.

The trilogy I'm currently writing is basically contemporary with a historical reflection in each novel. _Torc of Moonlight_'s was Celtic Romano-British, whereas the in-progress _The Bull At The Gate_ is true Romano-British based in York. I have the maps, and I live close enough to walk the areas, visit the museums, etc, but for the past two years I've been picking up books as I've come across them. It's not a "history" I need, although I've read a couple, but to understand daily life and the mindset of the main historical character involved, who is fictional but must be of his time and background. So I read an awful lot of 'The Life of...' type books and may get in touch with a re-enactor group I can trust to get their insight.

I think the short answer is... as much as I need to feel comfortable in the characters' skins. But that goes for all novels, not just historicals.


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## JRTomlin

MartinLake said:


> Hi Linda,
> 
> Welcome to this thread which is getting more exciting by the day.
> 
> I am interested to see that you write about just before Stamford Bridge. My historical novel The Lost King: Resistance is set a little after the Battle of Hastings.
> 
> I don't know if you have seen the amazing on-line site for the Domesday Book. I found it so helpful when I was writing the second of my novels.
> 
> I've just had a look at your book and look forward to reading it.
> 
> Martin


I love the idea of a novel that doesn't say how wonderful the Normans were for invading England. I really want to read that, but darn it my TBR list is ENORMOUS. I will get to it though.

Too many novels are written completely from the side of the winners.


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## JRTomlin

Linda Acaster said:


> Shayne's "lots" marks it well.
> 
> The trilogy I'm currently writing is basically contemporary with a historical reflection in each novel. _Torc of Moonlight_'s was Celtic Romano-British, whereas the in-progress _The Bull At The Gate_ is true Romano-British based in York. I have the maps, and I live close enough to walk the areas, visit the museums, etc, but for the past two years I've been picking up books as I've come across them. It's not a "history" I need, although I've read a couple, but to understand daily life and the mindset of the main historical character involved, who is fictional but must be of his time and background. So I read an awful lot of 'The Life of...' type books and may get in touch with a re-enactor group I can trust to get their insight.
> 
> I think the short answer is... as much as I need to feel comfortable in the characters' skins. But that goes for all novels, not just historicals.


In a way, I disagree with you, Linda, that what you are talking about isn't part of historical research. Understanding the daily life and and the mindset of people is one of the most important parts of historical research. You can pinoint all the historical ecents that you want to, but if you don't get that right, you've missed on your novel. (Generic "you" of course)

That is where so many people get it wrong, plopping a modern character down in a historical setting.


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## Lisa J. Yarde

Sources; great topic. I think I used at least 20 of the main sources for the Anglo-Saxon / Norman periods, including of course the AS Chronicle, Domesday book, the Charters etc. It was good at the time to have  afriend who had access to JSTOR for some of the really obscure / murky parts of history. For my second book on Moorish Spain, I've lost track of how many sources I found, because they were mostly online. Sources are a pain for me, proof that history is often written by the victor. It's hard to avoid a completely biased view when you're writing from a historical perspective.


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## jabeard

I currently have a 50-book TBR pile (access to a major university library helps) for my Heian historical I'm working on.


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## JRTomlin

My new one about James Douglas after the end of A Kingdom's Cost is coming along slowly. Why the HECK did I say he fell in love with someone he can not possibly marry? *bonks head*


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## Linda Acaster

JRTomlin said:


> My new one about James Douglas after the end of A Kingdom's Cost is coming along slowly. Why the HECK did I say he fell in love with someone he can not possibly marry? *bonks head*


Because we like to make it difficult for ourselves

Anyone in the UK watched the new "Camelot" tonight? I wished it would make up its mind whether it was post-Roman or Hollywood mediaeval, though. I'll give it another go next week, though.


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## JRTomlin

Linda Acaster said:


> Because we like to make it difficult for ourselves
> 
> Anyone in the UK watched the new "Camelot" tonight? I wished it would make up its mind whether it was post-Roman or Hollywood mediaeval, though. I'll give it another go next week, though.


Very Hollywood medieaval imo.

Edit: which isn't to say it's not fun--but nothing much. Doesn't begin to compare with GoT, for example.

It would be possible to do a lot with Author if you stripped the Norman/Tudor propaganda stuff and went at it fresh.


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## Miriam Minger

Mine is historical romance:  5 medieval romances (Twin Passions, Captive Rose, The Pagan's Prize, Wild Angel and its sequel Wild Roses); 1 Highland Scots romance (A Hint of Rapture); 2 Regency era romances (Secrets of Midnight and its sequel, My Runaway Heart); and 2 1700s romances (Stolen Splendor in Vienna, Austria and Defiant Impostor in Tidewater Virginia).  

I love reading and writing historical novels.  Thanks for this great thread!

Miriam Minger


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## hardnutt

I've only written one historical novel so far, though I've written seventeen other novels, all, bar one, mysteries.

My historical is called Reluctant Queen The story of Mary Rose Tudor, the defiant little sister of big bad English king, Henry VIII.


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## hardnutt

Second go. My first seems to have disappeared!

My first historical is Reluctant Queen, the Story of Mary Rose Tudor, the Defiant Little Sister of much-married English king, Henry VIII.

I came to this through a writing career of writing mysteries - sixteen of these at the lart count.


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## JRTomlin

An interesting and exceedingly painful period in Scottish history. I don't think I could bring myself to write about it. The dirge Flowers of the Forest was written about it. As someone who is generally a whole LOT less than an admirer of the Tudors, I'll make an exception for her.


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## Alex Sinclair

> I'm a bit confused. I'm a huge fan of Japanese history, so I downloaded a sample of your story. I'm a bit confused about where and when it's set (the 'samurai era' basically covers several different distinct eras over a good six hundred year span). No one has a Japanese name (at least in the sample pages). Are those supposed to be Westerners?


Sorry for the delayed in reply. Been a crazy week.

The names are not japanese through choice. The reason being I once did a young adult story that ran for a few months in a magazine about... nine years ago. I used all japanese names and the one bit of feedback I constantly had was that some people couldn't work out how to pronounce them (disrupted the flow of the story) and others had heard the names in other books. So, the names are western.

I don't refer to a set location/time period, but I never have done in any of my books. My novel, Five Days Notice, was based on london, but I never say that or name the city, as I like the reader to fill the blanks without being asked to fill the blanks. I go into great detail without names/location/time and their brain automatically paints the picture. Again, Five Days Notice, is set about thirty years from today, but I never really state that out right. The reader works it out as the story progresses. The only reference I do make is to the black ships, which is when you had foreigners in japan. This is because the main samurai falls from grace, sells his sword, his soul, wears western clothing, as they are easier for him to dress due to losing his arm.

lol, although one fan did say they thought the book was set in england because I am english. That doesn't bother me too much, as I never really state the location, but again I make reference to a unit that served in, oh dear, the boshin war? I may be getting my facts wrong with that one. Don't have my notes on hand. Again because I don't state the location. The reader creates the world of the story, as they follow the characters. The sequel is going to be different, as I am going to give an alternative version on an actual historic event, which means the whole plot will take place in one town and sort of throws my artistic license out the window.


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## hardnutt

JRTomlin said:


> An interesting and exceedingly painful period in Scottish history. I don't think I could bring myself to write about it. The dirge Flowers of the Forest was written about it. As someone who is generally a whole LOT less than an admirer of the Tudors, I'll make an exception for her.


Mary Rose Tudor's story isn't Scottish, it's briefly, a story set in France, and then England as she married, successively, Louis X11 of France and Charles Brandon, Henry VIII's boon companion.

I think you must be thinking of Henry's elder sister, Margaret, who married James IV of Scotland and had a high old time of it north of the Border!


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## Tommie Lyn

jabeard said:


> I'm curious if any of you all have ever wanted to write a story but basically held back because you just didn't feel you had the command of the material or if you just went ahead and then researched after the fact to add in the appropriate detail.
> 
> I'm definitely in the former camp. I'm bursting with a lot of ideas, but find I can't write a single sentence without pretty solid confidence in my period knowledge. In my last historical work, I was surprised how well this informed every little detail. It also was quite handy when some writing group partner or beta reader would insist I got some detail wrong and I could point to my sources.


Yes. When I learned a bit about Scottish history of the 1700s (specifically, The Rising), I thought someone should write about it...but no one would. A history professor told me if I wanted it written, I should write it. Soooooo...I began a period of about 6 years of research before I wrote _High on a Mountain: A MacLachlainn Saga, Book One: Ailean_. And after I'd finished the first draft of the story, I continued researching for the next four years while I edited, rewrote and polished...to make sure what I'd written accurately reflected that period of time. Several reviewers have commented on the accuracy of the historical record in the story...so, maybe I succeeded.



> Speaking of the last bit, has anyone had that trouble? A lot of time people's expectations of history are formed more by popular imagination and movies than actual history. In the process of getting one of my Regency stories critiqued, a person insisted several details were wrong and when I showed her primary source documentation to why I did it that way, she basically explained she thought they were wrong just because she hadn't seen the details in the various Regency novels of a few of her favorite authors.


Thus far, I've gotten more comments about the Gaelic names of the characters than any other detail (one critter told me it would be better if my characters had "easier" names, like, "Bob" or "Frank"  ).

I have a question about dialogue. Something I've found off-putting in some historical fiction is stilted dialogue. I did quite a lot of pondering about that before realizing that, while my characters lived about 300 years ago...their lives were _today_ for them. And when they spoke with one another, they sounded ordinary to each other, as we do when we converse. So, while I tried to give a flavor of the time period in their speech, and I avoided using words they wouldn't have used, like "ok", I also tried to make them sound "natural." My question: how do you handle dialogue?


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## JRTomlin

hardnutt said:


> Mary Rose Tudor's story isn't Scottish, it's briefly, a story set in France, and then England as she married, successively, Louis X11 of France and Charles Brandon, Henry VIII's boon companion.
> 
> I think you must be thinking of Henry's elder sister, Margaret, who married James IV of Scotland and had a high old time of it north of the Border!


Duh. You are right that that I was confusing the two sisters.

However, Margaret did not have what I would consider a "high old time" considering what happened during that time to Scotland and to James IV. It was to put it mildly a bloody period in Scottish history as her brother tried to conquer Scotland. She is the only Tudor I have any truck with.


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## JRTomlin

Tommie Lyn said:


> I have a question about dialogue. Something I've found off-putting in some historical fiction is stilted dialogue. I did quite a lot of pondering about that before realizing that, while my characters lived about 300 years ago...their lives were _today_ for them. And when they spoke with one another, they sounded ordinary to each other, as we do when we converse. So, while I tried to give a flavor of the time period in their speech, and I avoided using words they wouldn't have used, like "ok", I also tried to make them sound "natural." My question: how do you handle dialogue?


I handle it exactly the way you do, it sounds like. My dialogue may be just a LITTLE more formal and I try to give the rhythm of Scottish speech, which I get some good comments regarding from native Scots, but it is dialogue. I try to make them sound natural and I do use contractions which they would if they were alive today.

So they might not have. They also spoke in a different language.


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## Shayne Parkinson

Tommie Lyn said:


> I have a question about dialogue. Something I've found off-putting in some historical fiction is stilted dialogue. I did quite a lot of pondering about that before realizing that, while my characters lived about 300 years ago...their lives were _today_ for them. And when they spoke with one another, they sounded ordinary to each other, as we do when we converse. So, while I tried to give a flavor of the time period in their speech, and I avoided using words they wouldn't have used, like "ok", I also tried to make them sound "natural." My question: how do you handle dialogue?


It's a bit easier for me, because mine aren't set far back enough to make truly authentic dialogue unintelligible to readers. I model the speech patterns and rhythms on those of adults I grew up spending a lot of time with, who were born early in the 20th century, and on some of the wonderful oral history recordings of New Zealanders born in the 19th century. I also have diaries dating back to the period in which my books are set, written in colloquial language.

I've checked the idioms I use to make sure they're appropriate for the period (which has meant giving up some that felt just right, much to my disappointment at times). Many of these were still around when I was a child, but are old-fashioned or near-extinct now. New Zealand speech has become more international, and in the process less distinctive, in the last few decades.


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## Tommie Lyn

JRTomlin said:


> I handle it exactly the way you do, it sounds like. My dialogue may be just a LITTLE more formal and I try to give the rhythm of Scottish speech, which I get some good comments regarding from native Scots, but it is dialogue. I try to make them sound natural and I do use contractions which they would if they were alive today.


Glad to know I'm not alone...


> They also spoke in a different language.


Indeed, they did. And although I can't write a story using Gaelic dialogue (or, more properly, Gàidhlig), I do sprinkle in a few Gaelic words, particularly words like _féileadh-mòr_. Or, _àirigh_.



Shayne Parkinson said:


> I've checked the idioms I use to make sure they're appropriate for the period (which has meant giving up some that felt just right, much to my disappointment at times). Many of these were still around when I was a child, but are old-fashioned or near-extinct now. New Zealand speech has become more international, and in the process less distinctive, in the last few decades.


I understand. I had to give up a word or two in the first story in the series...hope I didn't miss any...


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## jabeard

Tommie Lyn said:


> Glad to know I'm not alone...Indeed, they did. And although I can't write a story using Gaelic dialogue (or, more properly, Gàidhlig), I do sprinkle in a few Gaelic words, particularly words like _féileadh-mòr_. Or, _àirigh_.


I've always liked that approach in the HF I've read. Not so much that I feel like I need to learn a new language, but enough to give it flavor. I read a HF book about early European-First Nationer contact in Canada a while back that used to that very good effect. They even surprised me by using native words that people usually just render into English (native words for 'chief' for instance). It was slightly more work fully slipping into the story at the beginning, but the overall engagement over the course of the book was great, I thought.


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## Theresa M Moore

I've got several ready to read, and one coming at the end of this month.

*The Queen's Marksman * http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ACPMOU watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oaWAZrY148 $2.99

*A Pirate's Daughter * http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002ACPN0I watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwg-hj5z_jQ $2.99

*Written In Blood * http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Y5OZ7Q watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t166dCeozsM $4.99

*Swords of The Dragon's Blood * is the sequel to _Written In Blood _ and I hope to have it published by the end of the month.

The _Children of The Dragon_ series of SF/vampire books is a chronicle of the Xosan, living vampires from the planet Antellus who were once human but were transformed by a dragon's blood. They are stories of science fiction, fact and fantasy, myth and history, romance, tragedy and triumph; linked together by the theme of the vampire as hero and told in a daring cinematic style.


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## JRTomlin

Tommie Lyn said:


> Glad to know I'm not alone...Indeed, they did. And although I can't write a story using Gaelic dialogue (or, more properly, Gàidhlig), I do sprinkle in a few Gaelic words, particularly words like _féileadh-mòr_. Or, _àirigh_.
> I understand. I had to give up a word or two in the first story in the series...hope I didn't miss any...


I also put in some Gàidhlig, sometimes even a sentence or two and French as well since most Scottish nobility (probably all) spoke French and Lallands. After all, Barbour's _The Brus_, written some forty years after the Bruce's death, was written in Lallands so obviously it was commonly spoken.

I avoid modern sounding words and phrases such as okay. But if I wrote in medieval Scots I think it would put a BIG hit to my readership.


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## MonkeyScribe

JRTomlin said:


> I avoid modern sounding words and phrases such as okay. But if I wrote in medieval Scots I think it would put a BIG hit to my readership.


Thou dost speke trowth, laddie.


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## Tommie Lyn

JRTomlin said:


> I avoid modern sounding words and phrases such as okay. But if I wrote in medieval Scots I think it would put a BIG hit to my readership.


Indeed.


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## MartinLake

Getting the language to sound _of the period _(even though it can't be for much more than 50 years ago) is crucial to giving authenticity.

It is the old word that sneaks into writing that jars, both with my own writing and that of other authors. Yet, it's really hard to define what causes the jar. It's normally words which aren't appropriate such as ok. Yet I also think that some modern words don't have the right tonality and rythmn.


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## Tommie Lyn

MartinLake said:


> Getting the language to sound _of the period _(even though it can't be for much more than 50 years ago) is crucial to giving authenticity.
> 
> It is the old word that sneaks into writing that jars, both with my own writing and that of other authors. Yet, it's really hard to define what causes the jar. It's normally words which aren't appropriate such as ok. Yet I also think that some modern words don't have the right tonality and rythmn.


You're exactly right.


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## JRTomlin

Link to an article that gives me chills.

http://www.braveheart.co.uk/macbrave/history/bruce/heart.html

Once more interred at Melrose Abbey, the plaque above the casket containing the heart of Robert the Bruce repeats the words of John Barbour in his epic poem about him: "A noble hart may hae nae ease, gif freedom failye"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/magaroonie/2437809129/


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## Kris Bock

Dialogue isn't as much of an issue in my own books, since I'm writing about foreign cultures 1000 or more years old, but it is something I notice as a reader with more recent historical fiction. I enjoy some Shakespeare, but that doesn't mean I want to read Shakespeare-style English in a novel I picked up for fun. Historical novels should certainly avoid modern slang or words that feel "off," and maybe toss in some dialect for flavor, but in general I like novels where the language itself disappears, and that means writing in a fairly modern rhythm. That's especially true when it comes to the narration, where contractions make for smoother reading, even if they would sound wrong in dialogue.


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## Linda Acaster

I think dialogue language is a perennial problem, the scope of which is dictated very much by the tenor of the book.

I'm a 'show' writer by nature, so mine also have a lot of inner thought direct in the narrative. I can't go overboard in my use of realism in narrative thought - I tried it once and it was turgid - but I also cannot have a character who speaks realistically for his time thinking in modern English; the two have to match. I tend to try to take the reader back into the historical period and create a new "normality" for the reader. What can I say? Some "normalities" are more historical than others.

While I'm on, I'll mention that _Hostage of the Heart_ launched yesterday as an mp3 audio download, and is discounted by 60% for a week to $3.49. A snip for 8 hours of listening. http://www.audiolark.com/books/hostage-of-the-heart/


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## JRTomlin

On interviews I'm  always asked about my research techniques. What do you say to questions like that?

"I read books about it" doesn't seem quite satisfactory.


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## jabeard

You could have added, "Oh, and I went to the library on occasion, too." 

One thing I am curious about if anyone has a particular program they use. My "scrawled notes on random pieces of paper" approach has repeatedly shown me its limitations. :|


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## JRTomlin

jabeard said:


> You could have added, "Oh, and I went to the library on occasion, too."
> 
> One thing I am curious about if anyone has a particular program they use. My "scrawled notes on random pieces of paper" approach has repeatedly shown me its limitations. :|


My method involves thousands of stickies on the edge of books. I don't trust notes. I always want to look at the source again. That is also why I try not to use library books. Libraries have this nasty habit of wanting their books BACK. Hmmmph.

I have used a few because some reprints of original sources such as the Lanercost Chronicle are simply too expensive to buy at least for me, and hardly easy to find. But even then I admit I copy the relevant pages (I excuse myself that even the translation is out of copyright). But 90% of my source material I own and I double check sources constantly as I write.

Darn good thing I have a fairly good memory for where I read things because I freely admit it's not an EFFICIENT method. There have been times it took half an hour to find a source I was looking for.


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## Linda Acaster

JRTomlin said:


> Darn good thing I have a fairly good memory for where I read things because I freely admit it's not an EFFICIENT method. There have been times it took half an hour to find a source I was looking for.


As well as research material bookmarked on the Net, though certainly not as much as some readers would think, I have a carry-all ringbinder for booklets from museums, photocopies of interesting snippets, etc. At the front I use an index detailing not only which page in which book the snippet came from, but whether the book is mine (memory like a sieve!), or where it was borrowed from so I know where to go to borrow it again. And it's highly portable.


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## David Greene

I wrestled quite a bit with getting the language and dialogue to my liking in my 19th century historical novel.  I agree that it isn't just as simple as limiting the language to the vocabulary of the era.  It also has to feel right to the modern reader.

I wrote an American Civil War era story that has romances between slave owners and also between slaves.  The slave dialogue was especially challenging. I tried to err on the side of less dialect rather than more in order to keep it from calling attention to itself.  I also had to think about regional vocabulary...a southern friend told me, for example, people say "drapery" never "drapes," in the south.  

The language aspect of writing historical was fun...finding words that were commonly used in the 19th century and are still familiar, like "skedaddle"--but not modern.  I also liked using an epistolary style--since formal letter writing is so different from today's email forms.

Another process I enjoyed was to study old maps.  I studied an 1860 map of Chicago that showed all the businesses. The street names in downtown Chicago are the same today as they were then.  But in those days they were filled with millinery shops and saddle shops and perfume emporiums.  I could really feel the difference in the scale of things and the pace of things--just from pouring over the map.  

And yes, all the research is so much easier to do on the Internet than it would be to dig it out of the library.  Yet I also found holding a 120 year old book of maps in hand at the library gave me a certain energy lift--something metaphysical I guess--that I found helpful.


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## Mark Lord

If any authors on this thread are interested in writing short stories then you might want to consider submitting to Alt Hist see http://althistfiction.com for more details.


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## robertscotttruecrime

Even though I'm the author of sixteen true-crime books, (Pinnacle Books) this is my first foray as a historical mystery writer.  I really enjoyed the freedom of creating characters of my own invention.  My historical mystery novel, DEATH IN THE VALLEY, is set in 19th century Yosemite and the fictional characters interact with historical characters such as John Muir and President Grant's son.  

I've always found historical novels entertaining and enlightening.  It's a good way to learn about the history of a time and place and be entertained at the same time.  

So a rightful place at the table, indeed.  Historical novels are great!  

Robert Scott


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## J. Gunnar Grey

Linda Acaster said:


> As well as research material bookmarked on the Net, though certainly not as much as some readers would think, I have a carry-all ringbinder for booklets from museums, photocopies of interesting snippets, etc. At the front I use an index detailing not only which page in which book the snippet came from, but whether the book is mine (memory like a sieve!), or where it was borrowed from so I know where to go to borrow it again. And it's highly portable.


Gotta admit, I've never moved beyond index cards. But I've got a pretty good memory, and if I can't recall what book contained a certain fact, I can usually recall the writer and then find the book on my Goodreads list.
Gunnar


----------



## colleen_gleason

Historicals are my first love, and I have three medieval historicals available for the Kindle (all romance, but not overly sexy). Those are my indie books.

This one is $.99, and the other two are $3.99


I also have paranormal historicals available--all but one are published by traditional publishers. But one of them, Victoria Gardella: Vampire Slayer, is a free short on Kindle now.


----------



## colleen_gleason

MartinLake said:


> Getting the language to sound _of the period _(even though it can't be for much more than 50 years ago) is crucial to giving authenticity.
> 
> It is the old word that sneaks into writing that jars, both with my own writing and that of other authors. Yet, it's really hard to define what causes the jar. It's normally words which aren't appropriate such as ok. Yet I also think that some modern words don't have the right tonality and rythmn.


I totally agree. I was working on a Regency-set novel and wanted to use the word "scan" (as in, He scanned the room...) and had to look it up in my _English Through the Ages_ book (which is my most valuable resource for preventing these sorts of anachronisms.)

I think it's a fine line, though, balancing between the "feel" of historical language--which I try to do, especially in my medievals--while keeping the prose accessible.


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## Lafittewriter

Mine is more of a historical time-travel for teens/young adults. The historical figure is Jean Lafitte and the setting is New Orleans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA2ufrRt8rg


----------



## Miriam Minger

My historical romance A HINT OF RAPTURE is set in the Scottish Highlands in 1746 after the Jacobite Rebelllion.  A number of characters--including the heroine Maddie Fraser--use a Scots dialect/accent, which was a risk as a writer but one I chose to take.  

Miriam Minger


----------



## BRONZEAGE

No "subgenre", it was difficult enough to write it as straight fiction set at 4200 years ago! 

This author was inspired to write about the culture that built Ireland's massive passage mounds at the Boyne. In response to prior comments on this thread re: research, the research to adequately do this novel took around eight years. I also corresponded with author Edw. Rutherfurd at an early stage, and later with numerous archaeologists. 

The result won a Next Generation Indie Award 2011 (historical fiction) so after all the time and effort that is gratifying. The target reader is one who enjoys Jean Auel, Mary Renault, E. Rutherfurd, the Gears (Michael and Kathleen) and/or Michener.

The story does weave Irish myth with the bang-on archaeology and it echoes with medieval texts, and cult heroes modern and ancient. The characters symbolize an aspect of Irish history and myth.


----------



## jennifermalin

Hi, everyone. Nice to see a historical novel thread! And interesting to read about everyone's dedication to getting details and dialogue right for the time period you're working in.

I have a few books set in Regency England -- two traditional (sweet) Regencies, a Regency historical (sexier) and a time-travel with a contemporary heroine and Regency hero. My other book is a contemporary with a Victorian ghost, so indirectly that has a historical element, too.  

In one way, I learned about the Regency period "organically" by just reading and loving Jane Austen books and romance novels set then, but I do also spend a lot of time researching as well as ruminating over my characters and plot. I can't imagine how some authors write multiple books in a year -- I'm lucky if I can complete one book in two years!

Jen


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## MaryKingsley

Hi, all. I've reissued a historical which has been out of print for many years, _In a Pirate's Arms_. It's set at sea and in Washington in the days leading up to the War of 1812. For a limited time, it's priced at .99. Enjoy!


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## Julie K. Rose

So many interesting books here!

My current offering is multi-period (contemporary and 12th century Burgundy), and a blend of literary, historical, and speculative fiction.


----------



## JRTomlin

I did a review of Dara England's _Accomplished in Murder_ on my own blog yesterday. For anyone who is interested in what I had to say about it you will find it here:

Writing and More.


----------



## MartinLake

I love this thread.

Colleen, could I ask more about English through the Ages?  I must get it.  Could you let us know the author and publisher, please?

Thanks.


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## Mainak Dhar

My first historical fiction Hindustaan: An Epic Adventure of the Mughal Empire is now up on the Kindle store for an introductory price of 99 cents. Here's a little bit about it:



Till the 17th century, one superpower accounted for almost a quarter of the world's income- the same share as that of the United States today. That superpower was what we know today as India under the Mughal Empire. Years of internal strife, attacks by Afghan raiders and finally conquest by the British led to the decline and destruction of this mighty empire.

But what if India had never been conquered by the British? What if it remained a mighty and prosperous nation under the rule of the Mughal Empire?

A nation known as Hindustaan.

Dilli, 1857. The Mughal Empire is at the peak of its power and is gearing up to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of its victory over the British, an occasion where the popular Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar is widely expected to announce his successor.

The Empire is thrown into sudden chaos when the Emperor is assassinated and a new regime seizes power in a bloody coup.

In this maelstrom, three unlikely companions find themselves thrown together by fate. Ranveer, a young officer in the elite Mughal cavalry, who is now hunted by the very Empire he served; Theo, a rakish English traveller with a mysterious past and Maya, a beautiful and spirited Princess they rescue.

Together, they embark on a series of dramatic adventures across Hindustaan. A journey that takes them from bloody skirmishes with Afghan raiders, rescue missions in remote forts, joining a coalition of rulers band together against the new despotic regime to protect their independence, and finally back into the heart of Dilli for a dramatic mission.

The stage is set for a monumental struggle that will decide not just their fate, but that of the whole of Hindustaan.

To be published in paperback by Vitasta Publishing, India, 2011
Length: 75000 words (approximately 300 pages)


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## Linda Acaster

"Hindustaan: An Epic Adventure of the Mughal Empire" - ah, Alternative History! Robert Harris took the UK by storm with his take on WW2. I hope yours does as well. I see it is already racing up the UK Kindle charts.


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## PhoenixS

Mine is Arthurian fiction. It's a cross between women's historical fiction and historical romance. Calling it "in the tradition of _Mists of Avalon_" seems to resonate well with those who've read it. While Marion Zimmer Bradley's style and mine differ, Marion published some of my short stories in her anthologies, so I'm sure some of her influence rubbed off on me.

I'm a bit of a medieval history buff. I have a minor in medieval history, an MA in English with a concentration in Medieval Studies, and I played a few years in the Society for Creative Anachronism. While I love period detail, I'm also an editor by trade and know how to ensure the detail complements the story and doesn't get in its way.

Spoil of War: An Arthurian Saga is 112,000 words or about 440 pages. It's $2.99 and the first 10,000 words are available to read now. I hope you enjoy it!


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## Steven Slavick

My novels are historical thrillers with plenty of romance to spice things up. My series novels take place in Chicago during the Prohibition era, while I've also written a romance novel that takes place in Boston on the eve of the Revolutionary War, an adventure yarn that takes place during the American Civil War, and a romantic-suspense novel that takes place on the day of the Great Chicago Fire. Happy Reading!


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## thomaskcarpenter

My novel is set during 50 AD in the great city of Alexandria, City of Wonders. It could be described as a cross between a Ken Follett and a Dan Brown novel, a historical thriller with a dash of romance and plenty of eye-opening insight into the time period. The central action takes place around Heron of Alexandria's workshop. Heron made many marvels that appeared to be magic in their time and were often used in the temples to amaze the masses into giving up their coin. Heron made a primitive steam engine, hydraulics, odometers, fire trucks and other wonders. But for a few quirks of the time and the horrible tragedy of the Great Fire, Alexandria might have set off an industrial revolution two thousand years ago.

_The greatest mystery of the ancient world remains the identity of who set fire to the Great Library in Alexandria.

One hundred years later, Heron of Alexandria-the city's most renown inventor and creator of Temple miracles-receives coin from a mysterious patron to investigate the crime. Desperate to be free of the debts incurred by her twin brother, she accepts and sets in motion a chain of events that will shake the Roman Empire and change the course of history forever._

Fires of Alexandria is available for $4.99.


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## BRONZEAGE

--This thread sinks faster than prehistoric gold in a Wicklow stream.  Reader comments would be grand.--

Bending The Boyne, Circa 2200 BCE: 
Changes rocking the Continent reach Eire with the dawning Bronze Age. Well before any Celts, marauders invade the island seeking copper and gold. The young astronomer Boann and the enigmatic Cian need all their wits and courage to save their people and their great Boyne mounds, when long bronze knives challenge the peaceful native starwatchers. Banished to far coasts, Cian discovers how to outwit the invaders at their own game. Tensions on Eire between new and old cultures and between Boann, Elcmar, and her son Aengus, ultimately explode. What emerges from the rubble of battle are the legends of Ireland's beginnings in a totally new light. 


Bending The Boyne draws on 21st century archaeology to show the lasting impact when early metal mining and trade take hold along north Atlantic coasts. Carved megaliths and stunning gold artifacts, from the Pyrenees up to the Boyne, come to life in this researched historical fiction. 

First place, historical fiction, 2011 Next Generation Indie Awards. Quality paperback and new on Kindle. Please see link below.


----------



## geoffthomas

Ask and you shall receive

I am really happy that this thread has come about and want to encourage all of you to continue your dialogue.  As a reader who is especially interested in Historical Novels, this thread is a treat.
I would enjoy more discussion of the history that is covered in your novels, how you researched, etc.

Just sayin.....


----------



## GerrieFerrisFinger

JRTomlin said:


> Other genres have them but we're a bit of the "red-headed stepchild" of genres. We need to demand a place at the table.
> 
> Strict historical, historical time-travel, historical romance, historical mystery. What is your sub-genre?
> 
> Mine is strict historical.


One of mine is historical time travel. I loved writing this, my first foray into historicals. My second is historical romance, which seems more romantic than contemporary. Yes, we need more recognition and to demand it.


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## Julie K. Rose

geoffthomas said:


> Ask and you shall receive
> 
> I am really happy that this thread has come about and want to encourage all of you to continue your dialogue. As a reader who is especially interested in Historical Novels, this thread is a treat.
> I would enjoy more discussion of the history that is covered in your novels, how you researched, etc.
> 
> Just sayin.....


My story moves between modern-day and 12th century Burgundy. I talk about my research approaches in this post (part of a blog tour I did back in February with two other historical fiction authors). It's a fascinating time frame and location that doesn't get much play in historical fiction, unfortunately, so it's nice to introduce folks to it.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Glad to answer that, geoffthomas -- 
Became interested in the Bronze Age from visiting many megaliths in Ireland and coastal France. A medieval text re: the Boyne passage mounds caught my eye in referring to those massive structures as "elfmounds". Wow, that was some piece of propaganda! How did that happen?

This was around 2001, and the eminent (Sir) Barry Cunliffe published Facing The Oceans, a big volume on prehistoric coastal Europe. Cunliffe agreed with me (!) that there was a notable culture that extended along the entire coastal Atlantic -- from the Tagus in Portugal, around to the Basque area and up to the Loire/Morbihan and up further into the Isles including the Orkneys with the famous Maes Howe site. He went so far as to say that "Celtic" was not an Iron Age phenomenon from central Europe but began in the third millennium BCE. It also spelled doom for the megaliths.

After 8 years of reading and travels I had written Bending The Boyne, described on the back cover ( print edition) as "Bang-on with the latest archaeological debates" by a director with the Canterbury Trust, UK. 

More details can be found on the website for jsdunnbooks -- enjoy!


----------



## geoffthomas

Thanks guys....
I find that the writers in the Historical Novel genre are such nice people.
My prior experience with Jeff Hepple and Margaret Lake was pleasant so I had high expectations, and I am not being dissappointed.  This is what I really like about KindleBoards.
The interactions.

Just sayin.....


----------



## Julie K. Rose

geoffthomas said:


> Thanks guys....
> I find that the writers in the Historical Novel genre are such nice people.
> My prior experience with Jeff Hepple and Margaret Lake was pleasant so I had high expectations, and I am not being dissappointed. This is what I really like about KindleBoards.
> The interactions.
> 
> Just sayin.....


Cheers, Geoff 

The Reading the Past blog is a great place to get information on upcoming HF books (Sarah Johnson runs the blog, and she's the reviews editor for the _Historical Novels Review_). Also, Richard Lee (who founded the Historical Novel Society) is on Twitter as @histnovel and is doing a daily digest of HF articles and news.


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## thomaskcarpenter

On the research question for my book Fires of Alexandria, I read a bunch of books about my location (Alexandria), a bunch about the people of the time (Caesar, Inventors of Alexandria) and just did a lot of spot research on the Internet when questions came up about little things like food and clothing. While I believe I got the major and minor things correct, I did not obsess about the minutia. I'm certain an expert on the location and time could find things I got wrong, but the casual reader won't notice.

Mostly, I wanted to convey the _feel _of the time, rather than worry about if there were two or three Temples to Artemis in the city. The people and the constraints of the time period are, to me, the most important aspects. In the case of Alexandria--how did slavery affect the different classes of people, what were the roles of the Temples in every day life, how did the Library function, how were women treated? From these types of questions, I think the true nature of a time can be revealed through a historical fiction novel.

Overall, I think I got it right, giving people a glimpse into another time while delivering an exciting novel experience. My early readers have agreed. Fires of Alexandria for $4.99.

Tom


----------



## J. Gunnar Grey

geoffthomas said:


> Ask and you shall receive
> 
> I am really happy that this thread has come about and want to encourage all of you to continue your dialogue. As a reader who is especially interested in Historical Novels, this thread is a treat.
> I would enjoy more discussion of the history that is covered in your novels, how you researched, etc.
> 
> Just sayin.....


Oh wow, how to answer that? I've been fascinated by World War II since Hogan's Heroes aired as re-runs and I discovered Alistair MacLean's thrillers in the bookstore. In that sense, I've been researching the era since I was a teenager.

But even so, before writing the rough draft of Deal with the Devil, more detailed information was needed--the specifics of Operation Sealion, the German plan for the invasion of England in August 1940, how German and English parachutes differed, medical and forensics practices, village life, architectural styles in the villages around Oxford. It took weeks of online reading, clicking from The 1940s Society Reprinted Wartime Booklets to UBoat.net, before I was even sure the plotline would work.

I gues you could say the broad outline came from years of reading on the subject, but the details could never have been filled in without the internet. My favorite websites now are the BBC - WW2 People's War, where people who lived through the war years contributed their memoirs to a huge and fascinating database, and Glamour Daze, a blog devoted to the history of fashion in the first half of the 20th century.


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## BRONZEAGE

Great to see this thread active and the interesting answers to Geoff's questions.


----------



## lauragill

I did encounter some problems in researching Mycenaean Greece for my novel The Young Lion, because there is much still that archaeologists don't know about Mycenaean religion or politics, for example, and large gaps in the Orestes story.  So I had to do as much research as possible, then try to fill in the blanks and go with what was plausible.


----------



## J. Gunnar Grey

lauragill said:


> I did encounter some problems in researching Mycenaean Greece for my novel The Young Lion, because there is much still that archaeologists don't know about Mycenaean religion or politics, for example, and large gaps in the Orestes story. So I had to do as much research as possible, then try to fill in the blanks and go with what was plausible.


Laura, that's an interesting and potentially fun problem to have. I mean, WW2 writers are currently in a sort of sweet spot, research-wise, with the first "Top Secret" documents having been declassified, but enough still remaining out of reach to give a writer room for creativity. (Sweet spot ends 2045, with the next round of declassification.) But for the information to be now permanently lost sounds both challenging and creatively fun, too.


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## Linda Acaster

I have the University of Nebraska Press and the University of Oklahoma Press to thank to setting me on the *historical* trail rather than the TV/Hollywood trail of _Beneath The Shining Mountains_. Both published many conversations with the old people as well as anthropological papers. For me one reflects and shines light on the other.


----------



## Shayne Parkinson

My research includes:

- Much time spent poring through books, many of which I've bought, usually secondhand as most of them are out-of-print. Our city's main library has an excellent New Zealand reference section that includes, along with mainstream histories, lots of privately-printed local histories and even some typescript-only manuscripts (I found a painstakingly detailed history of all the local cinemas as a stapled bundled of typed pages). It also holds parliamentary records in huge volumes that exude a cloud of dust as they collapse open.

- Family stories, including many from my father-in-law who lived to be 89. He grew up on the family farm (as did my husband) that his grandfather had purchased, and left school at the age of 12 to work full-time on the farm. F-i-l remembered the days before electricity or tractors had made it to the valley. He also passed on some of his grandfather's farm diaries to me, and they are a wealth of detail.

- The small, open-air museums that are found in many parts of the country. Old farm and household tools and machinery

- Hands-on: milking a cow, making butter and cheese, baking, making preserves, making reproduction Victorian clothing (including drawers )

It's as much fun as it is useful labour.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Oh, the "hands on" was a revelation! I started by doing beadwork (c1870+) but drifted back time-wise. Being in the UK we had to send off to the USA for porcupine quills and various other craft items. It was my husband who got into quillwork, though how he had the patience was awesome. We ended up meeting like-minded people and the exchange of info and practical skills was phenomenal. 

I'd recommend re-enacting to a historical novelist. The first I met was Elizabeth Chadwick (Mediaeval), though I know Robert Low is, or has been, a Viking re-enactor. Anyone else done this?


----------



## JRTomlin

Reinacting is great for historical novelists although if you join a group, you want to be sure it is one with an emphasis on accuracy imo. I hate when I go to a medieval re-inactment to see someone supposedly a Scot warrior in what is in fact MODERN Scottish kilt. It's like a Valley Forge reinactment in a modern business suit!

Some, however, are very strong on accuracy and it's great to actually get hands on experience with weapons and medieval items.


----------



## MartinLake

That's a great question Geoff.  The hero for my historical books Edgar Atheling was a great choice.  He was such a thorn in the side of William the Conqueror that he was written out of the history books.  This meant I had the bare bones of his life but had to fill in the rest with knowledge of the period.  

The basic facts about Edgar are:
he was named king after the Battle of Hastings, then forced to submit to the Normans, he fled to Scotland and raised an army, he formed an alliance with the Danes and defeated the Normans, William beat him in battle and harried the north to try to quell resistance, Edgar escaped to Scotland and renewed his resistance.

I won't say more except that he fought against two of William's children and in support of a third and that he outlived most of his enemies.  

My most useful research tools were maps of the area, thank goodness for Google Earth when planning the battles, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, books about the Crusades and the marvellous Domesday PASE project which enabled me to people my novel with real landowners from 1,000 years ago.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Hoping to hear from more readers and authors --

same topic, new topic, related to historical fiction.


----------



## geoffthomas

Mainak Dhar said:


> My first historical fiction Hindustaan: An Epic Adventure of the Mughal Empire is now up on the Kindle store for an introductory price of 99 cents. Here's a little bit about it:
> 
> 
> 
> Till the 17th century, one superpower accounted for almost a quarter of the world's income- the same share as that of the United States today. That superpower was what we know today as India under the Mughal Empire. Years of internal strife, attacks by Afghan raiders and finally conquest by the British led to the decline and destruction of this mighty empire.
> 
> But what if India had never been conquered by the British? What if it remained a mighty and prosperous nation under the rule of the Mughal Empire?
> 
> A nation known as Hindustaan.
> 
> Dilli, 1857. The Mughal Empire is at the peak of its power and is gearing up to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of its victory over the British, an occasion where the popular Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar is widely expected to announce his successor.
> 
> The Empire is thrown into sudden chaos when the Emperor is assassinated and a new regime seizes power in a bloody coup.
> 
> In this maelstrom, three unlikely companions find themselves thrown together by fate. Ranveer, a young officer in the elite Mughal cavalry, who is now hunted by the very Empire he served; Theo, a rakish English traveller with a mysterious past and Maya, a beautiful and spirited Princess they rescue.
> 
> Together, they embark on a series of dramatic adventures across Hindustaan. A journey that takes them from bloody skirmishes with Afghan raiders, rescue missions in remote forts, joining a coalition of rulers band together against the new despotic regime to protect their independence, and finally back into the heart of Dilli for a dramatic mission.
> 
> The stage is set for a monumental struggle that will decide not just their fate, but that of the whole of Hindustaan.
> 
> To be published in paperback by Vitasta Publishing, India, 2011
> Length: 75000 words (approximately 300 pages)


I have one-clicked this work.
In the mid-70s I traveled to Lahore, Pakistan (as well as a lot of other cities/countries) as part of my UN job. I visited the LaHore Fort and the Shalimar Gardens and other sites in the area. These were mostly attributed to Shah Jahan who also built the Taj Mahal at Agra in honor of his wife. So I have a built-in interest in the Mughal empire.

This is exactly the type of work included in Hitorical Novels that interests me most.

Just sayin.....


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Mainak's novel looks really interesting & gorgeous cover -- But wouldn't that be an alternate history rather than HF?

As it happens, am reading _An Atlas of Impossible Longing _ at present, so am steeped in India with that also !


----------



## I.J.Parker

I write historical mysteries and straight historical novels. My mysteries are set in eleventh century Japan; the protagonist is Akitada, an imperial official, and there are by now eight in print, on audio, on Kindle, and translated into 12 languages. I also write short stories about the same character.  These have appeared in ALFRED HITCHCOCK'S MYSTERY MAGAZINE, and will soon be available in a collection called AKITADA AND THE WAY OF JUSTICE.
My historical novel is a trilogy, set at the end of the twelfth century, also in Japan. It will be available on Kindle within a month.  The first book, DREAM OF A SPRING NIGHT, is already up. It tells the story of a young girl sent to the court of Emperor Go-Shirakawa.


----------



## Christine Lindsay

Mine is Christian Historical Romance. My debut novel is set in India 1919 with an event that rocked the British Empire and skyrocketing Gandhi to fame.


----------



## jabeard

I.J.Parker said:


> I write historical mysteries and straight historical novels. My mysteries are set in eleventh century Japan; the protagonist is Akitada, an imperial official, and there are by now eight in print, on audio, on Kindle, and translated into 12 languages. I also write short stories about the same character. These have appeared in ALFRED HITCHCOCK'S MYSTERY MAGAZINE, and will soon be available in a collection called AKITADA AND THE WAY OF JUSTICE.
> My historical novel is a trilogy, set at the end of the twelfth century, also in Japan. It will be available on Kindle within a month. The first book, DREAM OF A SPRING NIGHT, is already up. It tells the story of a young girl sent to the court of Emperor Go-Shirakawa.


I just discovered your books last year when I was looking around for modern English language fiction set in the Heian Era. I've always been fascinated by the Heian era.


----------



## geoffthomas

Encyclopedia Brittanica defines Historical Novel as:
a novel that has as its setting a period of history and that attempts to convey the spirit, manners, and social conditions of a past age with realistic detail and fidelity (which is in some cases only apparent fidelity) to historical fact. The work may deal with actual historical personages...or it may contain a mixture of fictional and historical characters.

do you agree with this definition, is it worth splitting hairs over?

I ask because I know some feel that works like James Michener's are novels with a deeply researched historical setting. And others feel his work is Historical Novel. Some seem to feel that only novels that focus on the history itself with the story as a fill-in are HNs. What do those of you here think?


----------



## J. Gunnar Grey

geoffthomas said:


> Encyclopedia Brittanica defines Historical Novel as:
> a novel that has as its setting a period of history and that attempts to convey the spirit, manners, and social conditions of a past age with realistic detail and fidelity (which is in some cases only apparent fidelity) to historical fact. The work may deal with actual historical personages...or it may contain a mixture of fictional and historical characters.
> 
> do you agree with this definition, is it worth splitting hairs over?


Hey, to me, if the book's good--


----------



## BRONZEAGE

@ Geoff,

Yes, would agree with that definition. Within "historical novel" there is a continuum  of works (or clusters), those which are more historical in emphasis -- for example, Rutherfurd, Michener, etc; 
and those which tend to be literary  ( : Anuradha Roy, Mary Renault, even some of Salman Rushdie) .

Not sure where the hybrid works that throw in vampires and time travel would belong....


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

BRONZEAGE said:


> @ Geoff,
> 
> Not sure where the hybrid works that throw in vampires and time travel would belong....


I get a little nuts about vampires in historical fiction. Fear of vampires within a periods of history - yes. But "real" vampires? No. The historical paranormal blend doesn't work for me. Certain things just don't go together, IMO. Yes, I'm just as anal about the kinds of foods that touch on my plate.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

lyarde11751 said:


> I get a little nuts about vampires in historical fiction. Fear of vampires within a periods of history - yes. But "real" vampires? No. The historical paranormal blend doesn't work for me. Certain things just don't go together, IMO. Yes, I'm just as anal about the kinds of foods that touch on my plate.


Hi, Lisa -- I'll second those comments. After Anne Rice's early novels, I didn't see the point!


----------



## jabeard

Depending on one's definition, you could say Salman Rushdie's _Midnight's Children_ is a historical paranormal. The historical events and settings form the heart of the plot and themes of novel,


Spoiler



but telepathic communication among a large cohort of people plays a huge part in the story.


 (highlight to read spoiler)

Of course, Rushdie (whose work I adore, so don't get me wrong) generally gets the 'get out of jail free card' by being called 'literary magical realism'.

No vampires, admittedly, but it is an interesting example in the difficulties with genre.

He's actually an interesting example because he has a range of works that fall into different parts of the continuum. _Enchantress of Florence_ is a much more straight-forward historical fiction work. It centers on a fictional character, but the personage and court of the Mughal emperor Akbar play important parts.


----------



## ElizaKnight

So excited to see this thread! Lots of books on here I'll be adding to be TBR list.

I recently published a medieval romance, A LADY'S CHARADE, which begins at the Battle of Agincourt, 1415.

http://www.amazon.com/Ladys-Charade-Medieval-Romance-ebook/dp/B0055IHTT2/


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

BRONZEAGE said:


> Hi, Lisa -- I'll second those comments. After Anne Rice's early novels, I didn't see the point!


Interestingly, the concept of vampires throughout history never bothered me in an Anne Rice novel, I suppose because they're billed as paranormal. She had me hooked, even with all that convoluted history, in Queen of the Damned.


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

jabeard said:


> He's actually an interesting example because he has a range of works that fall into different parts of the continuum. _Enchantress of Florence_ is a much more straight-forward historical fiction work. It centers on a fictional character, but the personage and court of the Mughal emperor Akbar play important parts.


Thanks, I'll have to try this book again. I couldn't get past the first two chapters.


----------



## jabeard

lyarde11751 said:


> Thanks, I'll have to try this book again. I couldn't get past the first two chapters.


I will note its one of Rushdie's weaker books, but I enjoyed it overall. It has been several years since I read it, but I remembering having some trouble initially getting into it as well.


----------



## PhoenixS

> Encyclopedia Brittanica defines Historical Novel as:
> a novel that has as its setting a period of history and that attempts to convey the spirit, manners, and social conditions of a past age with realistic detail and fidelity (which is in some cases only apparent fidelity) to historical fact. The work may deal with actual historical personages...or it may contain a mixture of fictional and historical characters.


Science fiction splits the difference by referring to some works as hard science and others as soft or space opera or other terms that convey spirit rather than empirical possibility.

Perhaps historical fiction needs some common terms as well to describe whether the facts are meticulous throughout or whether the author sacrifices details for story.


----------



## MartinLake

Pheonix Sullivan's reference to Science Fiction reminded me that the new Star Trek film upset the time lines of the earlier films and TV series to such an extent that a new chronology had to be invented.  So veracity is an issue even in the final frontier.

I like the idea of different sub-genres if it helps the reader to find the books they want (and only if it does.)  But how would it be managed?  Recently, I've read 3 books on Ancient Rome.  I would say that one of them, probably the one that sells best, is so cavalier with fact that it could almost be termed fantasy.  In fact I would not have been too surprised if a flock of vampires didn't swoop in to the support of Caesar.


----------



## geoffthomas

Thank you for your comments, Martin.
This is what I was wondering about.
See I enjoy most of the types of historical novels.
For instance I read The Last Days Of Jericho by Thomas Brookside.
I did not care if he got his details correct.  I kinda knew the basic premise and the biblical record.  So I found his novel extremely entertaining.
The first book of Mary Renault that I read (about Alexander, I think) was great even though so little is actually known about his years growing up.
And other books have been extraordinary because of the inclusion of so much historical fact and detail.
Yet I enjoy books like David McAffee's 33A.D. which is a "vampire" book written around the passion of Chirst.  I thought he treated the biblical Jesus very  well and yet told a story that seemed to be "feasible" in the context of the historical times, if there were vampires at all and especially if there were some there, then.

Just sayin.....


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi--

It's been interesting reading through some of this discussion. I appreciate historical accuracy, but I care more about keeping with the stories and the characters. Anyway, for those of you who demand historical accuracy, do not read the book I am posting. It is a complete and utter flight of fantasy, but it's a lot of fun.

Meet my Royal Rebel









*Courageous, captivating, cunning-the Royal Rebel leads her band of freedom fighters against the tyranny of Prince John. Inspired by the legend of Robin Hood, Royal Rebel twists a familiar tale into a fresh, romantic adventure. Robin, the secret daughter of King Richard, fights injustice as she awaits her father's return from the Crusades. Joining forces with arrogant knight extraordinaire, Sir Simon of Loxley, the two undertake a mission to save the kingdom. Filled with humor, whimsical imagination, and romance-Royal Rebel will capture your heart.

Winner of "Great Expectations" and "Gotcha" Contests of the Romance Writers of America*
(Previously published as "Princess Robin.")

Thanks,
Dana Taylor


----------



## TimHodkinson

I agree: My own book Lions of the Grail was originally written as a reaction to Mel Gibson's movie "Braveheart" and the historical distortion portrayed in that. That and telling a good tale 

Apart from LOTG though, I've also published a short story based on actual historical events from the Anglo-saxon chronicle called All the King's Thanes (Cynewulf and Cyneheard) and given that it tells a tale about events in which real people actually died (albeit 1225 years ago) I do feel a certain amount of responsibility to try an portray an a resonable account of what happened.


Lions of the Grail: An ex-Templar knight plunges into violent intrigue in medieval Ireland as three nations go to war against each other.
All the King's Thanes (Cynewulf and Cyneheard):Before there was an England, there was a kingdom called Wessex. Cynewulf, King of Wessex, plans to remove his last rival to the throne. Osric the Eorlderman, the King's right hand man, is unsure if this is one last act of violence to ensure a permanent peace, or the injustice of a paranoid tyrant.




[/td][/tr][/table]


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## Linda Acaster

I like your Lions of the Grail cover, Tim, but I'm more drawn to your other storyline. Tsh, the TBR list gets longer by the day...


----------



## Miriam Minger

If you enjoy medieval historicals, I have a new boxed set you might enjoy.

I did major research for my two bestselling novels set in medieval Ireland so I consider them very accurate to the time period--WILD ANGEL (Ronan Black O'Byrne's story, an Irish rebel intent upon driving the Normans from Ireland) and its sequel WILD ROSES (Ronan's gentle sister Maire O'Byrne's story, a brave young woman hoping to find love in spite of her handicap). Enjoy!



Miriam Minger


----------



## jkswift

Dana Taylor said:


> Hi--
> 
> It's been interesting reading through some of this discussion. I appreciate historical accuracy, but I care more about keeping with the stories and the characters. Anyway, for those of you who demand historical accuracy, do not read the book I am posting. It is a complete and utter flight of fantasy, but it's a lot of fun.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dana Taylor


It looks like a lot of fun Dana! There is just something about women and crossbows...although I must admit, your cover made me kinda lean to the side of my screen as I wrote this comment.  
I also like my historical novels to make me feel like I'm there, but I don't need all the facts and only the facts. I read texts for those.
JK


----------



## JRTomlin

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Science fiction splits the difference by referring to some works as hard science and others as soft or space opera or other terms that convey spirit rather than empirical possibility.
> 
> Perhaps historical fiction needs some common terms as well to describe whether the facts are meticulous throughout or whether the author sacrifices details for story.


Well, at times historical fiction does split the difference between historical romance, alternative history, and historical fantasy but not quite as clearcut. I must admit, being a bit of a purist, I find that a lot of historical romance makes me absolutely cringe by being sloppy with its historicity.

Incidentally, on the topic of historicity, does anyone else discuss that with their readers? I include several appendices which I think a lot of readers appreciate. Here's a snippet of a review from J. A. Beard's reviewof _A Kingdom's Cost_ which has been repeated in other reviews:



> A Kingdom's Cost includes several appendices discussing some of the major plot elements and their historicity, in addition to the direct sources the author used in her background research for the novel. This is something I would like to see in all historical fiction works, particularly historical fiction that focuses on actual historical personages as main characters.


I include Historical Notes which includes a discussion of sources, a list of historic characters, and map(s). I prefer to discuss my sources rather than just list them, since a lot of readers might not understand the difference in primary and secondary sources and can hardly be expected to recognize who are the preeminent professors of medieval Scottish studies.

Does anyone have thoughts on this? What do you readers prefer? Are you interested? What do you other authors do?


----------



## Shayne Parkinson

JRTomlin said:


> Incidentally, on the topic of historicity, does anyone else discuss that with their readers?


I have a fairly brief Author's Note to explain, among other things, that the characters are my own invention but the historical details are real. I also have a link in all the books to my website, with pages on such matters as Women and the Law, Education, Farming, etc. I keep the family trees (invented, obviously) there, too. The website gets quite a bit of activity.


----------



## JRTomlin

Shayne Parkinson said:


> I have a fairly brief Author's Note to explain, among other things, that the characters are my own invention but the historical details are real. I also have a link in all the books to my website, with pages on such matters as Women and the Law, Education, Farming, etc. I keep the family trees (invented, obviously) there, too. The website gets quite a bit of activity.


Since few of my characters are my own invention, I try to give an idea why I invented some of them, such as the wife of Sir Andrew de Moray in Freedom's Sword. I could put in family trees but instead just list the historical characters, many of whom are related. A family tree might help explain some of the complications in the dispute over the crown of Scotland but I honestly don't try to explain that in great detail. Some people feel that I should, but I feel you can understand the story without knowing whose grandmother was whose sister, etc.


----------



## SpearsII

My wife has had very positive feed back on her selective bibliography she has included in her books. I don't think every reader cares but the ones that do are grateful for being able to see the sources used in the building of the story. She also includes an author's note about how she uses such sources as they are often conflicting. I think it all falls under giving the reader the best experience possible. That's why we are also trying to include a map in our new book. Not every one needs a map, but if it makes the book a richer experience for some then it is work the extra effort. After all, my wife really enjoys reading author's notes and such in the books she reads why not add them to hers?


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

For those of you using maps, any inexpensive resources for those that you can share? I'd like to use one in my next, which is set in Moorish Spain. a family tree would also help but I'm not sure how to get a GenoPro document as part of my Word file. 

I always include an author's note in my historicals, that talks about the figures and shares more detail than I found necessary to include in the book. Most favorable reviews tend to comment on ths history being accurate, but I don't know that people really care too much for the history behind the story. I include it for those that do.


----------



## Linda Acaster

As I write about a period and not historical people, I only add in a Historical Note at the front that sets the period. Oddly enough, however, with _Torc of Moonlight_, which is a contemporary supernatural thriller, I have included a series of articles concerning the history behind the fiction. Ooh, lines blurring again...


----------



## Dana Taylor

I think it's great that so many historical authors do take their history seriously. As I think on my sense of history, I realize that much of it come from the novels I've read, not the courses I've taken. 

Dana Taylor


----------



## BRONZEAGE

lyarde11751 said:


> For those of you using maps, any inexpensive resources for those that you can share? I'd like to use one in my next, which is set in Moorish Spain. a family tree would also help but I'm not sure how to get a GenoPro document as part of my Word file.
> 
> I always include an author's note in my historicals...


L Yarde, google will take you to some web-based map vendors; for around $25.(USD) one can buy a jpg map. Eg, for my novel set at 2200 BCE the jpg template had to be stripped of modern roads, towns, etc but the web vendor did that. 
1. Be sure you obtain full use rights including "derivative works". The next step is to have a tecchie whom you hire alter the purchased template image to show those features your novel needs to include on it. You could have the vendor do this, but my experience was that firm wanted a lot of money to add features plus it would be difficult to have the image altered later if necessary. Using a local person to add the specific map features for _Bending The Boyne _ was better and allowed further revisions of the image. 
2. Be sure the image has enough dpi for print quality even if you think you are producing it for only ebook/ereader format; it will look better. It's difficult to go back and add dpi.

Re: Author's note, unfortunately some readers don't read these items and IMO they miss a lot. Mine contains a joke or two!

...My biblio is so long and is extremely up to date, have actually considered doing it as a separate publication! *hah* Rather than put the Biblio in the novel as back matter, it's a link on the author website.


----------



## lauragill

I was fortunate in that I was able to draw my own map.  But I was not able to figure out how to get a decent looking family tree.


----------



## jennifermalin

Hello again, fellow history buffs! I have a new release to share: "A Perfect Duet," a romance novella set in Regency England, is available on Kindle for the first time -- at 99 cents. Here's a quick description:

Meek Miranda Granville only comes alive at the pianoforte, but even there, Andrew Owen  intimidates her. His playing moves her like nothing else, but his critiques of her spoil the effect.

Andrew only wants to share the advantage of his training with Miranda, but his words always seem to come out wrong. The trouble is he’d rather be running his fingers over her than the keyboard, but she’s been promised to his rogue of a cousin Julian since childhood.

When Julian stands Miranda up at the village bonfire celebration, Andrew gets a chance to strike a chord with her –- but if he wants to make her his, he’ll have to outplay both his cousin and her father.

Find the link to "Duet" on Amazon in my signature below. To read a sample on my blog or check out my other (full-length) books, click on the link to that in my sig; links to info and samples for all titles are at the top of the home page.

Thank you for considering my books!
Jen


----------



## ElizaKnight

I tend to do a lot of research on my books. I like the reader to really get a sense of the times, the people, setting, life in general. But I will admit that my historical fiction novels, which I write under a different name, are much grittier and historically accurate than my historical romances--for instance, who really wants to read in a historical romance that the heroine hasn't washed in awhile? It's a fantasy, and it is fiction. I love to play with history too, but if I change something major, I will include a note on it.

And speaking of medieval romance.... My novel, A LADY'S CHARADE, just released in print! It looks amazing, and I love it! (also available in Kindle), and it has a special excerpt from my Victorian era novella, A GENTLEMAN'S KISS, as well at the end.

A LADY'S CHARADE blurb:

From across a field of battle, English knight, Alexander, Lord Hardwyck, spots the object of his desire-and his conquest, Scottish traitor Lady Chloe.

_Her lies could be her undoing&#8230; _

Abandoned across the border and disguised for her safety, Chloe realizes the man who besieged her home in Scotland has now become her savior in England. Her life in danger, she vows to keep her identity secret, lest she suffer his wrath, for he wants her dead.

_Or love could claim them both and unravel two countries in the process&#8230; _

Alexander suspects Chloe is not who she says she is and has declared war on the angelic vixen who's laid claim to his heart. A fierce battle of the minds it will be, for once the truth is revealed they will both have to choose between love and duty.

A GENTLEMAN'S KISS blurb:

1852 ~ After the death of her parents, Miss Lillian Whitmore travels to London to live with her aunt and uncle, the Duke and Duchess of Suffolk. Sick with grief, guilt and loneliness, and shunned by her aunt and cousins, Lillian is constantly reminded of her ignorance of society customs. Forced to find a husband, she encounters two men who vie for her affections--handsome, poised Lord Dominick Wade and the sensuous rake, Sir Trenton--but the skeletons in Lillian's closet keep her from making a choice.

Expectations are high for Lord Dominick Wade to marry a woman of social stature, but the American beauty has literally wreaked havoc with his senses. Lillian is everything Dominick wants in a companion, lover and wife. Even more rankling is his competition, Sir Trenton, and the influence he holds over her.

Which man will Lillian choose? Fate lies in his kiss...


----------



## SpearsII

> I think it's great that so many historical authors do take their history seriously. As I think on my sense of history, I realize that much of it come from the novels I've read, not the courses I've taken.


This is also a little scary because of how some authors change history. I wonder how many people can separate the history from the fiction part of historical fiction. Admittedly, half the fun of reading historical fiction is judging the interpretations of history by the author and seeing if you agree or disagree. There is plenty shades of gray in history.


----------



## Steve Robinson

My debut book, In the Blood (A genealogical crime mystery), is part historical and part present day.  It's currently No.1 in the Amazon UK historical mystery chart (No.6 in the US).  It's about an American genealogist who travels to Cornwall in England to investigate a discrepancy in his clients family tree when he discovers that they fled America at the end of the War of Independence (or American Revolutionary War) and vanished from recorded history.

The lead character is called Jefferson Tayte and his research centres around the tragic life of a young Cornish girl, a writing box, and the discovery of a dark family secret that he believes will lead him to the family he is looking for.

Please take a look.  The title has 39 reviews in the UK with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars.  It was also a Goodreads group book of the month last month where it has a rating of 4.55 after 33 reviews.


----------



## Joseph Robert Lewis

I call my books "historical fantasy."

I don't hold back. Each novel is crammed full of historical people, places, events, and cultures, and readers seem to love all the research and detail. 

I've just released new editions of the Halcyon Trilogy that includes an extensive appendix that clarifies which parts are historical and which parts are fantasy.


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## MartinLake

If you recall old paperbacks they often publicised other authors at the back.  I wonder if anybody here would be interested in doing the same thing.  

It would mean sending a brief outline of your book which participants would add to the back of their own e-books.  This way readers would get to see other historical novels which they could buy.

Any takers?


----------



## BRONZEAGE

MartinLake said:


> If you recall old paperbacks they often publicised other authors at the back. I wonder if anybody here would be interested in doing the same thing.
> 
> It would mean sending a brief outline of your book which participants would add to the back of their own e-books. This way readers would get to see other historical novels which they could buy.
> 
> Any takers?


Great marketing idea, Martin -- but for those published by a small imprint that might not work for that publisher.

As a practical matter revising the "flow" of the digital file and re-uploading presents its own problems ( speaking as someone who lets techies handle that --  )


----------



## BRONZEAGE

lauragill said:


> I was fortunate in that I was able to draw my own map. But I was not able to figure out how to get a decent looking family tree.


Hi, Laura --
It may be possible to get use rights for a template for that, perhaps from one of the genealogy sites?


----------



## MartinLake

Hi JS,

thanks for the comment.  You may be right about the small publishers.  I'm no techie so I imagine something very kitchen sink: maybe 3 or 4 pages each publicising a book or even one page with lots of authors listed.  I'm open to suggestions.  

I've just visited your web-site (mainly to find out your name) and saw that your book won first prize.  Congratulations.


----------



## Austin_Briggs

Hi all. 

"Five Dances with Death" is a historical fantasy, based on my 10 years of research into the facts and attitudes of the Conquest-era Aztecs. The historical facts are either exactly accurate, or very probable as generalizations of what did definitely take place. 

The "fantasy" part is the native sorcery bit to lighten up the story telling. The sorcery, to be fair, is also based on what I was able to understand about the old traditions of the land. People there didn't differentiate much between what we may consider a "fact" and an "act of sorcery". 

Anyway, it seems some folks are enjoying the read, and I'll be delighted if you also read and enjoy it.


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

BRONZEAGE said:


> L Yarde, google will take you to some web-based map vendors; for around $25.(USD) one can buy a jpg map. Eg, for my novel set at 2200 BCE the jpg template had to be stripped of modern roads, towns, etc but the web vendor did that.
> 1. Be sure you obtain full use rights including "derivative works". The next step is to have a tecchie whom you hire alter the purchased template image to show those features your novel needs to include on it. You could have the vendor do this, but my experience was that firm wanted a lot of money to add features plus it would be difficult to have the image altered later if necessary. Using a local person to add the specific map features for _Bending The Boyne _ was better and allowed further revisions of the image.
> 2. Be sure the image has enough dpi for print quality even if you think you are producing it for only ebook/ereader format; it will look better. It's difficult to go back and add dpi.


Excellent, thank you.


----------



## freda

geoffthomas said:


> Encyclopedia Brittanica defines Historical Novel as:
> a novel that has as its setting a period of history and that attempts to convey the spirit, manners, and social conditions of a past age with realistic detail and fidelity (which is in some cases only apparent fidelity) to historical fact. The work may deal with actual historical personages...or it may contain a mixture of fictional and historical characters.
> 
> do you agree with this definition, is it worth splitting hairs over?


I do agree with this definition in broad terms, but how accurate or realistic a piece of historical fiction needs to be depends very much upon its genre or sub-genre. It has, above all else, to be a good story, to be commercial, a book that people want to read. Too much research and attention to detail can kill a story stone dead, losing pace and compulsion. I love writing about actual historical personages, but that presents it´s own problems in that readers have their own perception of the person's character and it's sometimes hard to go against this. Getting the feel of a period is surely vital to drawing the reader into the world you create. It has to feel real. A writer was once told to take a baseball game out her Victorian melodrama even though Jane Austen included the game in her own books some half a century earlier. It didn´t have an accurate ring to it, so was taken out.


----------



## freda

lyarde11751 said:


> ... a family tree would also help but I'm not sure how to get a GenoPro document as part of my Word file.


I used a family tree in my Hostage Queen ebook. I made it in Family Tree Maker then saved it as a pdf file, then from that copied and pasted it into Word, embedding it in the document. I'm sure there are much cleverer ways, but it seemed to work.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

MartinLake said:


> Hi JS,
> 
> I've just visited your web-site (mainly to find out your name) and saw that your book won first prize. Congratulations.


Thank you, Martin. Next Generation Indie Awards is a nonprofit, judged competition. Their award event was at the Plaza in NYC & very well done.


----------



## JenniferConner

Writing historicals has been a blast. But, on the other hand you can't write what you know because you didn't live then! I constantly listen to historical on audiobooks to get my head wrapped around the place and time setting and always jotting down word usage.

Historical readers are very particular and will find flaws if you have not done your research!


----------



## JRTomlin

freda said:


> I do agree with this definition in broad terms, but how accurate or realistic a piece of historical fiction needs to be depends very much upon its genre or sub-genre. It has, above all else, to be a good story, to be commercial, a book that people want to read. Too much research and attention to detail can kill a story stone dead, losing pace and compulsion. I love writing about actual historical personages, but that presents it´s own problems in that readers have their own perception of the person's character and it's sometimes hard to go against this. Getting the feel of a period is surely vital to drawing the reader into the world you create. It has to feel real. A writer was once told to take a baseball game out her Victorian melodrama even though Jane Austen included the game in her own books some half a century earlier. It didn´t have an accurate ring to it, so was taken out.


I have to absolutely disagree that "too much research and attention to detail can kill a story dead". Now poorly _used_ research can and so can sticking in details that don't add to the story or in visualizing the setting. Can one visualize early 19th century England without knowing that some people probably played an early version of baseball? Yes.

And when it comes to going against common misperceptions, you have to choose your fights. Let's take one of mine: Kilts.

Medieval Scots did not wear kilts. Not! Not! Not!

There. I have that out of my system.

I do not mention kilts anywhere in my novels although there are brief mentions of plaids (which is a piece of cloth, not a pattern). I would be willing to bet that a lot of readers are convinced there ARE kilts in them or visualize the characters wearing them. It's not my business to convince them otherwise and in the greater scheme of things the modern conviction (thank you, Mel Gibson, and the ones in your stupid movie were put on wrong if they HAD worn them) that they did just isn't the battle I want to fight.

I absolutely do not think there can be too much research just as there can't be too much world building in fantasy. But once you know all that, you have to pick and choose what will give a good experience to your reader, not dump in every single thing you know just to show off that you know it.


----------



## ElizaKnight

J.R., I totally agreet!  You have to pick and choose the historical aspects that will add flavor and lushness to the story.

I went t a workshop once where the speaker talked about dumping too much fact into the story, which detracts from the story line. She pointed out that she was patting herself on the back for a job well done on research, which brought a smile to my face, because, let's face it, we get very excited about our research! But that doesn't mean our readers will care about every nitty gritty detail. I try to weave it in seamlessly, so the reader doesn't have to stop and wonder what the heck I'm talking about.

Historical details are essential for scenery, clothing, current events (as in current for your era), mannerisms, modes of transportation, etc... 

My biggest suggestion for historical authors would be to tone down the language. Don't write it so a reader who has never read a historical before picks up your book and has to have an old English dictionary availalbe. Use certain words to enhance your story, but not take them over.

I LOVE historical fiction, and this thread has given me so many more books for my TBR pile! Thank you fellow authors!

Have a safe weekend!


----------



## JRTomlin

Writing speech is a funny problem. I run into problems as well because I write about Scots who have different languages anyway. Well, when I put in some Gàidhlig it's obvious and I make sure that I let the reader know what is being said, if the PoV character understands it or is saying it. But the Scots language itself is much more difficult since I may myself forget that it's something that Americans may not understand. I tried to only use words that in context could be understood but I've gotten a few comments on things being misspelled that (*ahem*) were supposed to be spelled that way. Trying to give a flavour of the language without overwhelming your reader is a fine balancing act.


----------



## ElizaKnight

It really is a balancing act! I've had the "you spelled that wrong" too when I didn't.

I've written a few Scots stories, and I try to flavor it with a few words here and there, and subtley let the reader know what it means. My latest medieval takes place mostly in England (short scene in Scotland) and so I used medieval English here and there. My mom who is a strict contemporary reader, is reading my book now, and she said it took her a few pages to understand the language, before she was totally into it. Some of the words she wasn't used to were "keep" as in castle, "break their fast" as in eating, "aye" for yes, "nay" for no, "mayhap" for maybe/perhaps. 

I'm glad it only took her a few pages to fall into the groove, means I did my job, right? 

What are some other words you've found people can get confused on?


----------



## Shayne Parkinson

I have some old-fashioned Kiwi slang in my books. I try to make sure the meaning is clear from context, and it seems to have worked. I've had some readers write and tell me they find themselves using the odd "new" word in everyday life, and getting blank looks when they say things like, "I feel crook [unwell] today." 

There are also the names of unfamiliar plants and animals. As long as it's clear you're talking about e.g. a bird, so readers don't get lost and taken out of the story, I think it's all part of the richness of your palette.


----------



## Linda Acaster

I've had fun today with a readers' group who have been reading _Torc of Moonlight_. The novel is essentially a contemporary supernatural thriller but they *all* wanted to know more about Celtic water goddesses which are central to the storyline, and how modern people still enact the ritual of invoking the blessing of the deity when we toss coins into a "wishing well". I had to explain about info-dumping and using Show not Tell.


----------



## JRTomlin

ElizaKnight said:


> It really is a balancing act! I've had the "you spelled that wrong" too when I didn't.
> 
> I've written a few Scots stories, and I try to flavor it with a few words here and there, and subtley let the reader know what it means. My latest medieval takes place mostly in England (short scene in Scotland) and so I used medieval English here and there. My mom who is a strict contemporary reader, is reading my book now, and she said it took her a few pages to understand the language, before she was totally into it. Some of the words she wasn't used to were "keep" as in castle, "break their fast" as in eating, "aye" for yes, "nay" for no, "mayhap" for maybe/perhaps.
> 
> I'm glad it only took her a few pages to fall into the groove, means I did my job, right?
> 
> What are some other words you've found people can get confused on?


Oh, I use quite a bit of Scots. "Outwith" (outside with some implication of nearby) baffled a few people. "Wean" for a child. A "plaid" is a long cloth which was used as a cloak or later to form a kilt, not a checked pattern. A "schiltrom" is a battle formation of pikes. Those are all Scots words. Americans have commented on my use of whilst and amongst and those are still used in Scotland (and most of the UK) as well.

Now medieval terms can be almost as much of a problem. "Checky" is the proper word for a checkered banner in heraldry. "Chivalry" is a group of knights, not bowing and kissing a lady's hand. "Slighting" a castle means to destroy or level it to the ground.

It was common to refer to the best knight in the land as "the flower of chivalry" which was a prized title, but didn't mean he was sweet and nice. Probably quite the contrary, since it meant he had courage and prowess in battle. Other terms besides chivalry are commonly misunderstood, such as palfrey which was simply a riding horse, not not necessarily a lady's horse as many people think.

I don't use "aye" or "nay" but I had a reviewer get annoyed over my use of "mayhap" which apparently annoyed her. LOL

Like you, Shayne, I try to make the words clear from the context rather than providing a definition but I did give a fairly elaborate description of a schiltrom because of its importance in Scottish military history.


----------



## JRTomlin

Anyone know a good online source for medieval healing herbs and practices? I can't locate the book I used previously when I researched it. I'm writing a scene in one of my Scottish historical novels where the hero's lass who has considerable skill with healing herbs having trained in a nunnery is going to treat a scar from a serious battle injury. The shoulder injury is tight and still sore and tender although no longer an open injury. I'm not quite sure what she would use. Any suggestions?


----------



## JRTomlin

Bob Mayer said:


> After 45 books in other genres, I've entered historical fiction with Duty, Honor Country. I'm sending out galley, review copies right now all over the place and it's interesting. One nice thing about historical fiction is that it won't ever go out of date.
> In my Atlantis books I wrote a lot of historical stuff, as half of the last five books were focused around significant battles in the past. i just got back from Shiloh and will be going to Gettysburg and Antietam again this summer for more research.


You know, that's an interesting point about historical fiction not going out of date.


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

JRTomlin said:


> Anyone know a good online source for medieval healing herbs and practices? I can't locate the book I used previously when I researched it. I'm writing a scene in one of my Scottish historical novels where the hero's lass who has considerable skill with healing herbs having trained in a nunnery is going to treat a scar from a serious battle injury. The shoulder injury is tight and still sore and tender although no longer an open injury. I'm not quite sure what she would use. Any suggestions?


I have a copy of Poore's Medieval Herbal Remedies, but I don't if it's available anywhere. Good guide to the usage of certain plants.



JRTomlin said:


> Writing speech is a funny problem.


I do get a little annoyed when anyone tells me my characters speak very formally: they're typically the upper crust and it's often a medieval setting, not the period of "yo, what's up?" What do readers expect? The only thing I cave a little on is using contractions in speech, but otherwise I refuse to "dumb" it down.


----------



## Joseph Robert Lewis

I've had readers not only appreciate historical detail, but also want resources to better understand the details and figure out which parts are fact and which are fiction. So I added a detailed appendix with tons of people, places, and things to provide those answers.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

lyarde11751 said:


> I do get a little annoyed when anyone tells me my characters speak very formally: they're typically the upper crust and it's often a medieval setting, not the period of "yo, what's up?" What do readers expect? The only thing I cave a little on is using contractions in speech, but otherwise I refuse to "dumb" it down.


Good for you -- I've had readers "confused" by the fact that arriving sea traders speak a different language. Perhaps those readers have read too much time travel where the arrivals inexplicably speak exactly the same language? Hmmm.

Anyway, archaeologists who vetted the manuscript thought it was hilarious that the arrivals speak like Dub street toughs, like lads straight from a bad neighborhood in north Dublin. That was the point. The arriving newcomers probably brought an early form of Gaelic according to the latest research in genetics and linguistics. And we can assume they weren't the cream of society so their speech reflects that.

If people are used to reading the trite or stereotypical, that doesn't mean you let it pull the novel down to that level. You can't pander to those who want an easy read.


----------



## SpyHunter

I like this thread. The dialogue between authors is engaging. In addition, a chance to introduce my HISTORICAL FICTION novel.

Starting 1940s, my protagonist, a journalist, traces the footsteps of a British mole back to the American Civil War 1861, and the French invasion of Mexico, 1862.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

-- So. 

Where were we in this discussion?


----------



## EGranfors

Yes!  I am writing strictly historical--1750-1798.  I would love to see our genre available.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Evening all!



EGranfors said:


> Yes! I am writing strictly historical--1750-1798. I would love to see our genre available.


Er... which one? Or are you meaning something not yet published?


----------



## freda

My favourite periods are Engish Civil War, Restoration, Jacobite and Georgian, particularly involving court intrigue. I think it´s important to create characters who believe and act as if they are contemporary to that place. After all, they don’t know that a war is looming, or taht their plot isn´t going to work out and they are about to lose their head. And we mustn't judge their behaviour by modern standards. That's always the ticky one for a writer.


----------



## Linda Acaster

An admin question for everyone: how do you collate and reference your research material?

I used to use a paper-based ringbinder per book, listing all my research sources by code and then having sections on various aspects of the period. I’d make notes then add in the code + page. Leaflets etc just slipped into clear pockets. There was a bit more to it, but you get the idea. 

However, internet research has made this semi obsolete, as I now also need hyperlinks, so before I re-immerse myself in my latest research I was wondering whether to take the opportunity to test-drive some project software. Anyone got any suggestions? Preferably free or cheap in case I can't get on with it. How do you go about this?


----------



## freda

I´m afraid I´m of the sticky post-it notes at top of page sort of researcher, but I do also put info on my computer and keeping track of sources is, I agree, a problem. My b-i-l uses Microsoft Onenote for an OU degree he's working on. He swears by it, but it's neither free nor cheap. About 69 dollars, I think. There is some info on Wikipedia. How useful it is, I couldn't say, but it's a starting point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_notetaking_software


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Linda Acaster said:


> ...{ internet research has made this semi obsolete, as I now also need hyperlinks, so before I re-immerse myself in my latest research I was wondering whether to take the opportunity to test-drive some project software. Anyone got any suggestions? Preferably free or cheap in case I can't get on with it. How do you go about this? }


Software would be great, but how about modifying an excel spreadsheet 
to list the sources per a standard Bibliography down the left column, and then notate across in the columns, for page numbers, topic, etc -- Haven't tried it yet myself though! Still doing it using hard copies and file folders, and a Biblio on the computer.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Bronzeage: thanks for that. I've never worked with spreadsheets, but this has been suggested to me by someone else.

Freda: thanks for offering that suggestion. I'll follow up on free notetaking software. "Freemind" I downloaded a long time ago but couldn't see how it would "help" rather than "hinder".


----------



## Linda Acaster

Regarding software to handle research notes/hyperlinks, I asked the question on Writers' Cafe - and received some cracking replies.
Thought some of you might be interested:
http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=83699.new;topicseen#new


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Good input -- Which software are you thinking of trying?


----------



## Gabriel Ascher

Historical mystery


----------



## Linda Acaster

Hi Gabriel

I see you are relatively new to Kindleboards. Don't be shy. Give us a bit more info about your historical mystery. Time / place / setting.. what period you enjoy the most...


----------



## Linda Acaster

Sorry Bronzeage - half asleep when I logged on this morning and missed your post.

Which software am I thinking of trying? Don't know yet. I need time to have a good read of all of them. A friend uses Scrivener to write (which is what I thought it only did) so I want to pay her a visit and see how it handles research material.


----------



## LadyCalverley

Hi there-

My novel 'Base Spirits' is a ghost thriller with a historical core. The tragic story of a Yorkshire nobleman who murdered his family in 1605 is at the heart of the book, set in Calverley Old Hall where the killings took place (and now available as a holiday let!) The scandal inspired Shakespeare's King's Men to mount a one-act play 'A Yorkshire Tragedy' in the same year as the crime spree.

http://www.amazon.com/Base-Spirits-ebook/dp/B005L38G8E/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1315955877&sr=1-1


----------



## Shayne Parkinson

Hi Lady C! I remember this one from Authonomy. It's very well-written, and very effective - it scared me silly! I'm glad to see it out in the world.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Hi Shayne! Good to hear from you. Thought you'd gone quiet.

LadyCalverley - _Base Spirits_ sounds interesting. I must have missed it when you added its thread. I'm in Yorkshire (East) so will look this up. _Torc of Moonlight_ is a supernatural thriller set in modern Yorkshire.

For your info and of more use when adding to posts anywhere, you don't need all that Amazon link. This will get you to the page just as easily.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005L38G8E Replace the .com with .co.uk and it'll get you to the UK page. And that is a great cover. Is the door knocker on the holiday let??


----------



## Tommie Lyn

JRTomlin said:


> I have to absolutely disagree that "too much research and attention to detail can kill a story dead". Now poorly _used_ research can and so can sticking in details that don't add to the story or in visualizing the setting.


One of the best results of research is that you can steep yourself in the period, and that comes out in the feeling and atmosphere of the story, whether or not you use the details in the story.



> And when it comes to going against common misperceptions, you have to choose your fights. Let's take one of mine: Kilts.
> 
> Medieval Scots did not wear kilts. Not! Not! Not!
> 
> There. I have that out of my system.
> 
> I do not mention kilts anywhere in my novels although there are brief mentions of plaids (which is a piece of cloth, not a pattern). I would be willing to bet that a lot of readers are convinced there ARE kilts in them or visualize the characters wearing them. It's not my business to convince them otherwise and in the greater scheme of things the modern conviction (thank you, Mel Gibson, and the ones in your stupid movie were put on wrong if they HAD worn them) that they did just isn't the battle I want to fight.
> 
> I absolutely do not think there can be too much research just as there can't be too much world building in fantasy. But once you know all that, you have to pick and choose what will give a good experience to your reader, not dump in every single thing you know just to show off that you know it.


Popular movies and current word usage have given so many incorrect impressions...like the ideas about kilts, and like "plaid" to refer to checkered cloth. It becomes annoying, and I find myself wanting to correct erroneous notions when I encounter them (have had to learn to bite my tongue and keep my mouth shut because many folks don't care about accuracy and do not welcome being corrected).


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Linda Acaster said:


> Sorry Bronzeage - half asleep when I logged on this morning and missed your post.
> 
> Which software am I thinking of trying? Don't know yet. I need time to have a good read of all of them. A friend uses Scrivener to write (which is what I thought it only did) so I want to pay her a visit and see how it handles research material.


No problem -- keep us posted. Endnote program also sounds good; now to find the time to check how it works.


----------



## Caddy

My novel, Gastien Part 1: The Cost of the Dream is set in 19th Century Paris. It takes place during the Impressionist Era of art. I would say the series would qualify as a historical drama/romance. Part 2 will take place in Montmartre, which was technically part of Paris by 1860, but they definately considered themselves a separate village.



Here is a link to Amazon, where you can learn more: Gastien Part 1: The Cost of the Dream (The Gastien Series)


----------



## ArtMayo

A historical thriller with a pulp twist, my novel _TREASURE LTD_ is all about the Indiana Jones of the 19th century -- with even more chase scenes. And definitely more periwigs.

The book is available for $2.99 (US store) / £1.71 (UK store) throughout September.

I'm particular into Victorian-set novels at the moment (something about the onset of Autumnal mists, I guess!) - any recommendations gratefully received!


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

For authors of historical fiction set in less common times and settings, e.g. not Tudor or Regency, I moderate the Unusual Historicals blogspot, http://unusualhistoricals.blogspot.com/. We offer promotional opportunities for historical authors in any subgenre. We do not do reviews.

Our promotions feature an excerpt on Thursday of one week and an author Q&A on the following Sunday. We also ask authors to include add any book trailer and /or author photo. Authors submit their own Q&A, allowing them to focus on key elements of the story line that would interest blog visitors.

If anyone is interested, please contact me at [email protected] and I'll provide further details.


----------



## paf2011

Hi everyone! I have just the one historical novel, Maximum Discretion.


----------



## JRTomlin

lyarde11751 said:


> For authors of historical fiction set in less common times and settings, e.g. not Tudor or Regency, I moderate the Unusual Historicals blogspot, http://unusualhistoricals.blogspot.com/. We offer promotional opportunities for historical authors in any subgenre. We do not do reviews.
> 
> Our promotions feature an excerpt on Thursday of one week and an author Q&A on the following Sunday. We also ask authors to include add any book trailer and /or author photo. Authors submit their own Q&A, allowing them to focus on key elements of the story line that would interest blog visitors.
> 
> If anyone is interested, please contact me at [email protected] and I'll provide further details.


That's a great idea! (cold day in hell I write either *cough*)

I'll drop you a line.


----------



## Buffalo Cowboy

I think The Scorpion's Nest falls under a generic "Historical fiction/thriller" or "Action-Adventure." 

I think historical fiction writers have a beautiful niche; one where the hard truth of history blends with the creative beauty of imaginative thought.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Buffalo Cowboy said:


> I think historical fiction writers have a beautiful niche; one where the hard truth of history blends with the creative beauty of imaginative thought.


Nicely said, Buffalo Cowboy.


----------



## geoffthomas

In the last couple of pages some authors have discussed the level of accuracy in historical novels.  As a reader (consumer) I feel cheated if the author just mentions history and ignores the facts.  That being said, I do however "leave the red pencil at the door" when I open a historical novel.  NOVEL!  I do not expect a novel to be completely accurate.  But I do expect it to make historical sense.
James Michener often writes in a prologue when he will be accurate in the book and when he will deviate from reality.  This is nice.  I appreciate that he does it.  But I would enjoy the books even if he did not, because he writes a good story.  I am entertained.  If I truly want to be educated, I pick up a "non-novel".  Sometimes I use Google or Wikipedia to learn more about a point mentioned in a novel.  I hope my opinions help some of you.

Just sayin......


----------



## JRTomlin

geoffthomas said:


> In the last couple of pages some authors have discussed the level of accuracy in historical novels. As a reader (consumer) I feel cheated if the author just mentions history and ignores the facts. That being said, I do however "leave the red pencil at the door" when I open a historical novel. NOVEL! I do not expect a novel to be completely accurate. But I do expect it to make historical sense.
> James Michener often writes in a prologue when he will be accurate in the book and when he will deviate from reality. This is nice. I appreciate that he does it. But I would enjoy the books even if he did not, because he writes a good story. I am entertained. If I truly want to be educated, I pick up a "non-novel". Sometimes I use Google or Wikipedia to learn more about a point mentioned in a novel. I hope my opinions help some of you.
> 
> Just sayin......


Geoff, thanks for adding a reader's perspective.


----------



## Cliff Ball

My novels kind of cross a lot of sub genres.

Would you consider a time travel novella as historical fiction if it has the time travelers go back to 20th century and interact with historical events like the  Titanic, Anne Frank, JFK, the Apollo missions, etc? Then my novel Out of Time should be included.

Shattered Earth is an alternate history science fiction novel, and The Usurper starts off as a historical thriller referencing historical events from the early 1960's to September, 2001 (if 50 years ago is historical yet), and then it goes into a regular political, suspense thriller when it comes up to present time.


----------



## Miriam Minger

I did mountains of research for my historical novels with the goal to be as accurate as possible in my portrayal of particular time periods.  I want my readers to feel like they have jumped feet first into another world that is vibrant and alive and as historically close to reality as I can write it.  

Miriam Minger


----------



## Tara Maya

lyarde11751 said:


> For authors of historical fiction set in less common times and settings, e.g. not Tudor or Regency, I moderate the Unusual Historicals blogspot, http://unusualhistoricals.blogspot.com/. We offer promotional opportunities for historical authors in any subgenre. We do not do reviews.
> 
> Our promotions feature an excerpt on Thursday of one week and an author Q&A on the following Sunday. We also ask authors to include add any book trailer and /or author photo. Authors submit their own Q&A, allowing them to focus on key elements of the story line that would interest blog visitors.
> 
> If anyone is interested, please contact me at [email protected] and I'll provide further details.


Oh, very interesting. Thank you. I love Unusual Settings.


----------



## TKThorne

Hi everyone, maybe you can help my book figure out what it really is.

Noah built an ark, but this story has never been told!

_Noah's Wife_ won ForeWord Reviews Book of the Year in 2009 for "Historical Fiction," because that's how it was entered, but it is "historical" only in the sense that the names and relationships are modeled on the Biblical tale; the story is set in a real time/place (ancient Turkey/Anatolia) in 5500 BCE); and it follows the events of a catastrophic flood (based on geological evidence). It is an "alternate" view of the Biblical story, (my POV character has what is now known as Asperger's, a form of autism, and the real reason the ark was build is not what you think). Romance is a strong element, but not the primary thread; also have adventure and women's issues (yes, even in the Copper Age!).

Book asking--"So what am I?"


----------



## JRTomlin

TKThorne said:


> Hi everyone, maybe you can help my book figure out what it really is.
> 
> Noah built an ark, but this story has never been told!
> 
> _Noah's Wife_ won ForeWord Reviews Book of the Year in 2009 for "Historical Fiction," because that's how it was entered, but it is "historical" only in the sense that the names and relationships are modeled on the Biblical tale; the story is set in a real time/place (ancient Turkey/Anatolia) in 5500 BCE); and it follows the events of a catastrophic flood (based on geological evidence). It is an "alternate" view of the Biblical story, (my POV character has what is now known as Asperger's, a form of autism, and the real reason the ark was build is not what you think). Romance is a strong element, but not the primary thread; also have adventure and women's issues (yes, even in the Copper Age!).
> 
> Book asking--"So what am I?"


If it is placed in a distant period of history, I'd call it historical. You say it is set in a real time/place. That makes it historical. If it were based purely on the Bible, I would call it religious/Christian rather than historical although that distinction might offend some people.


----------



## EGranfors

Just finished Part III of my prequel to A Tale of Two Cities. 40-100 pages to go, post law-school for Sydney Carton and CJ Stryver up to the Darnay trial. Thinking it should be easy. That should scare me. Whatever, it's a first draft.


----------



## JRTomlin

Buffalo Cowboy said:


> I think The Scorpion's Nest falls under a generic "Historical fiction/thriller" or "Action-Adventure."
> 
> I think historical fiction writers have a beautiful niche; one where the hard truth of history blends with the creative beauty of imaginative thought.


Very well put.

I am nearly finished with the first draft of my sequel to _A Kingdom's Cost_ and am still debating the title. I takes up shortly after the Battle of Loudoun Hill and follows James, Lord of Douglas, through the Battle of Bannockburn where he commanded one of the four Scottish schiltrons.

How does _Countenance of War_ strike you? Any thoughts?


----------



## geoffthomas

I like the title.
It can have a double meaning - the face of war and/or the acceptance of war.  
Pretty nice.


----------



## JRTomlin

Thanks. I do like titles that can have more than one meaning or interpretation.


----------



## MartinLake

Hi, it's been an age since I've visited here so it's nice to be back.

I like Countenance of War as a title.  It's intriguing and full of promise.

I've been interested to find that Kobo has only picked up one of my titles from Smashwords and wonder if that is because it is the most unusual of all of my titles.

Does anyone know if the algorithms that the book retailers use are affected by the rarity of the title?


----------



## Linda Acaster

Hi Martin. Can't help you with algorithms, but I know Kobo is waaaay behind with importing Smashwords titles.

JRTomlin - my only reservation with _Countenance of War_ is that it sounds like a modern military adventure. But knowing your penchant for covers, I guess one look would soon put right any misguided reader.

While I'm on... I'm looking to update the cover of _Hostage of the Heart_ and am looking for a readable font that shouts Mediaeval Welsh. Anyone any ideas?


----------



## MartinLake

Hi Linda,

I don't know if this might help with the Welsh font but try this. http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2011/08/5-great-fonts-for-book-covers/

Martin


----------



## Linda Acaster

Hi Martin - thanks for going to the trouble to dig that link out for me. I've bookmarked it and will take a look in the morning. Sleep tight!

Linda


----------



## JRTomlin

Linda Acaster said:


> Hi Martin. Can't help you with algorithms, but I know Kobo is waaaay behind with importing Smashwords titles.
> 
> JRTomlin - my only reservation with _Countenance of War_ is that it sounds like a modern military adventure. But knowing your penchant for covers, I guess one look would soon put right any misguided reader.
> 
> While I'm on... I'm looking to update the cover of _Hostage of the Heart_ and am looking for a readable font that shouts Mediaeval Welsh. Anyone any ideas?


I'm pretty useless when it comes to fonts, I'm afraid. Wish I had a suggestion for you, Linda.

The cover for _Countenance of War_ will be stylistically very similar to the other historical novels. The cover designer who did those (JT Lindroos who I recommend pretty highly) has promised to do it for me and has already made design suggestions. We kind of planned the whole series in advance to try to make them similar but not exactly the same.

The title also relates to the lines from Johne Barbour's _The Brus_ which I intend to use as an epigram. In 1370, writing about my main character James, Lord of Douglas, he said:

With banys gret and schuldrys braid,
His body wes weyll maid and lenye
As thai that saw hym said to me.
Quhen he wes blyth he wes lufly
And meyk and sweyt in cumpany,
Bot quha in battaill mycht him se
All othir contenance had he.

(Which translates something like:
With bones great and shoulders broad
His body was well made and lean
As they that saw him said to me.
When blithe he was loving
And meek and sweet in company
But who in battle might him see
Another countenance had he.)

But I rather like that the title has several possible meanings. 

Edit: Interestingly enough, that is one of the earliest physical descriptions of anyone in Scottish (or British) writing. Although the epic poem is supposed to be about King Robert the Bruce, the Bruce is never described but the Douglas is described in some detail. He was, to put it mildly, highly thought of by the Scots who gave him the epithet "the Good" which is VERY rare amongst Scots. Of course, to balance things out because of that "another countenance" thing, the English called him "the Black Douglas".


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

Three of five in 12th Century China.

  ​
Edward C. Patterson


----------



## JRTomlin

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Three of five in 12th Century China.
> 
> ​
> Edward C. Patterson


I did a review of_ The Academician_ on my blog recently, Ed. 

Very interesting novel.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

Thank you, JR for the review - I just read it now and left a comment to answer a question raised. I post it here for clarification.

The question was one of pacing and structure and whether it was influenced by Chinese culture.

My answer:

"Yes, in my Acknowledgements I pay homage to the Novelists of the Yuan and Ming Dynasties. I also tried to adopt and adapt the Chinese 13th-14th Century structure to the 21st Century craft. Not easy, but I have a Master's in Chinese History (12th Century) and it should be good for something. Enjoy the work, and the subsequent 4 other works (2 already available). I've been workig on this series for 37 years."

Thanks again, JR
Edward C. Patterson


----------



## Dana Taylor

* Comedy! Romance! Jousting!*










Royal Rebel. Great fun, but not for the historically-correct taskmasters.

Read The Jousting Tournament at Scribd. http://www.scribd.com/doc/63836972/ROYAL-REBEL-The-Jousting-Tournament

Enjoy!
Dana Taylor


----------



## N. Gemini Sasson

Dana Taylor said:


>


Love the cover, Dana!


----------



## Dana Taylor

Thanks! The model look remarkably like my oldest daughter--who looks nothing like me!

DT


----------



## jabeard

Here's an interesting interview with HF authors Philippa Gregory and Wayne Johnston talking about historical fiction, respect for HF in general, and historical accuracy in HF.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/books/truth-lies-and-historical-fiction-how-far-can-an-author-go/article2233588/page1/


----------



## Steverino

Does alternate history count?

My characters have the power to visit many different versions of present day.  

In one, the last ice age lingered and humanity has been slow to populate the Americas.  Dire wolves and other megafauna still roam California.  In another, WWI never happened, and when Robert Goddard was mocked in the US for his ideas about rocketry, he emigrated to Germany and worked with von Braun to land humans on the moon by 1940.  The characters get to ride in a modern-day space elevator.


----------



## Bailey Bristol

I love to read and write historical suspense, and so far I'm writing in Americana settings. I'm wondering how wide the audience is for suspense set in 1896 New York City, in that time that was still so corrupt, but growing so fast and transforming transportation, communication, and women's freedom to exercise their gifts.

I research constantly, and find that as much or more "fun" than the writing. Then comes the problem of not creating an "information dump", but crafting a vision in the reader's mind of the setting, the smells, the colors, the tempo/pace, the fears, the naivete, all the things that give us a real sense of life in that unfamiliar time and place. I often think readers ascribe present-day characteristics to females, especially, and are surprised when a female historical character doesn't show the sophisticated critical thinking they might expect of a contemporary heroine. So the problem becomes making her more sophisticated than the others of her time, but not so much that it's unrealistic for the time.


----------



## Amy Corwin

Bailey Bristol said:


> I love to read and write historical suspense, and so far I'm writing in Americana settings. I'm wondering how wide the audience is for suspense set in 1896 New York City, in that time that was still so corrupt, but growing so fast and transforming transportation, communication, and women's freedom to exercise their gifts.
> 
> I research constantly, and find that as much or more "fun" than the writing. Then comes the problem of not creating an "information dump", but crafting a vision in the reader's mind of the setting, the smells, the colors, the tempo/pace, the fears, the naivete, all the things that give us a real sense of life in that unfamiliar time and place. I often think readers ascribe present-day characteristics to females, especially, and are surprised when a female historical character doesn't show the sophisticated critical thinking they might expect of a contemporary heroine. So the problem becomes making her more sophisticated than the others of her time, but not so much that it's unrealistic for the time.


That is a terrific time (1896) since there were so many changes going on. 
I know what you mean about an info dump. I see that a lot in historical novels, where the author drifts "off story" to launch into a mini-historical lesson. Sometimes it's fun, if the material is interesting and has something to do with the story. Other times, it can be a huge boat anchor tied to the ankle of the story.  I've been accused on not adding enough detail. Sigh. It's certainly a tightrope we have to walk.

It's interesting to me to note how the changing mores of today have influenced the readers. When I was growing up, we understood how a woman could accept being ordered around and was expected to be "pretty and not much more than that" but I find that readers now have a hard time accepting that. I believe it's so foreign to their lives that they have a hard time understanding the position women found themselves in a hundred years ago, or even 60 years ago, for that matter.  But then, it's our job as novelists to make them understand, right? LOL

Interesting thread, though--I love historical books (as long as they aren't just an excuse to dress characters in long gowns and throw them into bed with the nearest Duke). I love learning about other periods and what it was like to live in another time.


----------



## TimHodkinson

JRTomlin said:


> The title also relates to the lines from Johne Barbour's _The Brus_ which I intend to use as an epigram. In 1370, writing about my main character James, Lord of Douglas, he said:
> 
> With banys gret and schuldrys braid,
> His body wes weyll maid and lenye
> When blithe he was loving
> And meek and sweet in company
> ...
> He was, to put it mildly, highly thought of by the Scots who gave him the epithet "the Good" which is VERY rare amongst Scots. Of course, to balance things out because of that "another countenance" thing, the English called him "the Black Douglas".


Barbour's _The Brus_ was an invaluable resource for me when I was writing my historical novel Lions of the Grail. There are precious few historical accounts of Edward Bruce's invasion of Ireland in 1315 and The Brus filled in a lot of gaps for me that otherwise would have been pure guesswork. There is a large caveat that comes along with it though: Barbour got ten quid (a huge some of money in those days) and a pension from Robert Bruce for writing it, so its not exactly a "fair and balanced" account of that particular war. I found a PHD thesis on "the historicity of Barbour's 'Bruce'" http://theses.gla.ac.uk/1423/ really useful as well, as it goes through each incident in the poem and ranks it in terms of the likelihood that it actually happened.


----------



## JaimeRae

Mine (my first) is historical romance. Set in 1860s Nevada territory. Makes it a western of sorts which really makes it a stepchild.


----------



## Shelia A. Huggins

David Gaughan had a post on his blog recently about including historical people in novels. I thought it was pretty interesting. http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/incorporating-historical-figures-into-a-narrative/

I've found that I really enjoy the mix of reality and fiction. The reality part usually sends me to google trying to find out more. My first novel, A Reckoning In Belvoir is about a serial killer during the Civil War. I know...just plain weird.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Recent posts: 

It's fun to see new titles, and hear about works in progress, so here's a bump for this thread.


----------



## JRTomlin

TimHodkinson said:


> Barbour's _The Brus_ was an invaluable resource for me when I was writing my historical novel Lions of the Grail. There are precious few historical accounts of Edward Bruce's invasion of Ireland in 1315 and The Brus filled in a lot of gaps for me that otherwise would have been pure guesswork. There is a large caveat that comes along with it though: Barbour got ten quid (a huge some of money in those days) and a pension from Robert Bruce for writing it, so its not exactly a "fair and balanced" account of that particular war. I found a PHD thesis on "the historicity of Barbour's 'Bruce'" http://theses.gla.ac.uk/1423/ really useful as well, as it goes through each incident in the poem and ranks it in terms of the likelihood that it actually happened.


You have to keep in mind when historians rate some of the battle scenes in Barbour that they (sorry, historians) sometimes just plain don't know what they're talking about. Most of them have never even picked up a sword. Their analysis of hand to hand combat is at times laughable. (I'm not talking about your link but historical analysis in general. That thesis is very interesting and I intend to read it in depth)

I have seen historians dismiss Bruce's battle prowess, for example, and say that what Barbour said Bruce did was simply impossible. Well, the fights weren't (most of them--some were a bit over the top) for someone who spent almost his entire life in the field of battle. I've also seen Barbour incorrectly translated. Some of the bits are difficult and one of the popular translation is just plain wrong in a few spots.

By the way, it wasn't King Robert the Bruce who paid Barbour. He had been dead for about forty years when Barbour wrote his epic. Some people feel that he was trying to suck up to the extremely powerful Douglas family.

Of course, there were bits where Barbour took some literary license. There were also places where he was just plain wrong. You have to compare him to other sources and he to some degree lost interest after the Battle of Bannockburn and make a pretty short story of the rest of Bruce's life.

It's all a balancing act. I feel quite free to dismiss historians who say that Barbour didn't know how many Scottish schiltron there were on the field of Bannockburn. Say what? The SCOTS didn't know how many there were? I kind of think that they did.

And there are points of interpretation. For example, there are people who say that when Barbour says that Douglas was amongst those knighted "in their own degree" that it means that the Bruce hadn't gotten around to knighting Douglas, his main lieutenant barring his own brother and nephew. Highly unlikely and ignores the "in their own degree" part. I accept the modern interpretation (which a lot of historians don't like) that he was made a knight baronet which goes along with the fact that a few days later Douglas was made Warden of the Marches of all Scotland, a position formerly divided between three nobles.

*cough* Sorry. I do tend to go on.


----------



## JRTomlin

TimHodkinson said:


> Barbour's _The Brus_ was an invaluable resource for me when I was writing my historical novel Lions of the Grail. There are precious few historical accounts of Edward Bruce's invasion of Ireland in 1315 and The Brus filled in a lot of gaps for me that otherwise would have been pure guesswork. There is a large caveat that comes along with it though: Barbour got ten quid (a huge some of money in those days) and a pension from Robert Bruce for writing it, so its not exactly a "fair and balanced" account of that particular war. I found a PHD thesis on "the historicity of Barbour's 'Bruce'" http://theses.gla.ac.uk/1423/ really useful as well, as it goes through each incident in the poem and ranks it in terms of the likelihood that it actually happened.


It took a while because the thesis you referenced, _The Historicity of Barbour's Bruce_, is both lengthy and in depth. I have to say it is really excellent, by far the best analysis I have ever seen on the topic. I would disagree with him on only one point which is saying a lot in a thesis of such detail.

Anyone who is writing about the Scottish War of Independence really needs to read it.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Shelia A. Huggins said:


> ...My first novel, A Reckoning In Belvoir is about a serial killer during the Civil War. I know...just plain weird.


Hi Sheila. I don't find it weird at all. My print published "Dead Men's Fingers", a Western (you listening Wuzupbury?) set on on a wagon train was written to explore how a psychopath could act with impunity, even among his associates, if no one stood up to him.

Sorry it's a "him", but there y'go...


----------



## Bailey Bristol

Amy Corwin said:


> It's interesting to me to note how the changing mores of today have influenced the readers. When I was growing up, we understood how a woman could accept being ordered around and was expected to be "pretty and not much more than that" but I find that readers now have a hard time accepting that. I believe it's so foreign to their lives that they have a hard time understanding the position women found themselves in a hundred years ago, or even 60 years ago, for that matter.  But then, it's our job as novelists to make them understand, right? LOL
> 
> Interesting thread, though--I love historical books (as long as they aren't just an excuse to dress characters in long gowns and throw them into bed with the nearest Duke). I love learning about other periods and what it was like to live in another time.


So true! I find it a fascinating time. And yes, it's our job to nudge the reader unsuspectingly to an understanding...even a visualization...of living in that time. That's the part I probably love the most.


----------



## Grace Elliot

MartinLake said:


> Hi, it's been an age since I've visited here so it's nice to be back.
> 
> I like Countenance of War as a title. It's intriguing and full of promise.


I like the title, but my only query would be whether people will be able to spell "countenance" when typing it into amazon. 
I too am chewing over a title for the next book - Book 3 "Verity's Deception"
(the other two books are Eulogy's Secret, and Hope's Betrayal - historical romance.)
Any comments on Verity's Deception as a title?


----------



## N. Gemini Sasson

TimHodkinson said:


> Barbour's _The Brus_ was an invaluable resource for me when I was writing my historical novel Lions of the Grail. There are precious few historical accounts of Edward Bruce's invasion of Ireland in 1315 and The Brus filled in a lot of gaps for me that otherwise would have been pure guesswork. There is a large caveat that comes along with it though: Barbour got ten quid (a huge some of money in those days) and a pension from Robert Bruce for writing it, so its not exactly a "fair and balanced" account of that particular war. I found a PHD thesis on "the historicity of Barbour's 'Bruce'" http://theses.gla.ac.uk/1423/ really useful as well, as it goes through each incident in the poem and ranks it in terms of the likelihood that it actually happened.


This is probably too late to be of much help, Tim, but have you come across Sean Duffy's Robert the Bruce's Irish Wars? I ordered this one from Amazon.co.uk. Essays on the various battles by historians:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Robert-Bruces-Invasion-Ireland-1306-29/dp/0752419749/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1322417456&sr=1-1


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

Here are my other two historical novels, both reflecting my military experiences during the mid-1960's (with some fanciful streaks running throughout the second title):

 ​
Edward C. Patterson


----------



## Shayne Parkinson

Bailey Bristol said:


> So true! I find it a fascinating time. And yes, it's our job to nudge the reader unsuspectingly to an understanding...even a visualization...of living in that time. That's the part I probably love the most.


Slightly OT: nice to see you this thread, Bailey! I often see one of your books in my "Also Boughts" on Amazon UK.


----------



## JRTomlin

Bailey Bristol said:


> So true! I find it a fascinating time. And yes, it's our job to nudge the reader unsuspectingly to an understanding...even a visualization...of living in that time. That's the part I probably love the most.


You know the opposite is also true. People often think medieval women just followed men around looking meek. That isn't true at all; medieval women were mostly (of course, there are exceptions  ) not expected to set around looking pretty and I don't mean just peasants. But you will find readers who have trouble understanding how hard women, including nobility, worked. Of course, they think noblemen just sat around which was generally not true.

Women were expected to run a large estate or work in the fields or card and spin or do all kinds of labour. But the misconceptions about medieval life are so huge as to be overwhelming at times. Almost anything one can think that most people believe about medieval life is either totally or largely _wrong_.

And that doesn't even take into consideration women such as Isabella McDuff who led her men-at-arms on a 400-mile dash to crown Robert the Bruce, Christina Bruce who, at the age of 60, held Kildrummy Castle against the English or Agnes Randolph who defended Dunbar Castle when it was besieged.


----------



## StephenEngland

I suppose you might call my sub-genre historical adventure/alternate history. My first novel, _Sword of Neamha_ was set in pre-Roman Britain. 

It follows one young Gallic warrior through his tribe's invasion of the British Isles.


----------



## Brian Edward Bahr

The manuscript of this novel was a finalist in the William Faulkner-William Wisdom Contest and is now available as an ebook for $2.99.

_Publishers Description_:
A Prohibition-era novel centering around the occurrence of a dust storm in southern Minnesota, Orchard of Dust follows the lives of a boy and his father as their town is invaded by a speakeasy.

_From the Back Cover_:
In the quiet born to the soil, the coming of a fresh generation quaked and rumbled as a people, displaced from their land, dreamed of once and tomorrow; they followed promised whispers of abundance through a desolation where men ripped at the land, wrenching what harvest the fields could spit until a protestation came against man, strangling the fields in dust; and this people broke their homes, shattering hearthstones against the collapsed shelter of forgotten desires that had turned to dead leaves.


----------



## TimHodkinson

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> This is probably too late to be of much help, Tim, but have you come across Sean Duffy's Robert the Bruce's Irish Wars? I ordered this one from Amazon.co.uk. Essays on the various battles by historians:


Thanks for the tip. I really appreciate it: I just started writing a sequel so I think I'll be ordering this one myself. I had found a couple of reference's to Duffy's work but never though of doing the obvious and searching amazon for it. Doh!


----------



## phil1861

Good to find a home thread!

Military historicals, my debut is Civil War following four soldiers through the battle of Shiloh day by day and focusing on comradship and fellowship. 

Now for a branding question. I have other work that is probably more mainstream but not Civil War. Have any of you deviated from your niche?


----------



## phil1861

Lisa J. Yarde said:


> I write historicals as well, mostly medieval from the 11th to the 13th century, though I have two other manuscripts in draft, one set in 5th century Gupta India and the other, a 17th century work on Barbary pirates. I like to say I write historical fiction with romantic elements (at least my first four works will be that), but I reject the idea that they are historical romances - nothing against the subgenre but my work doesn't fit the formula for it.
> 
> I'm also curious about the length of time other writers spend researching and writing their historicals. I started in 1996 with what has become my second book. I didn't finish the research and writing until 2005. My second manuscript, which I published first, took three years from inception to finish. Obviously I'm not one of those "book a year" writers. What are the averages for others?


I've found that research never really ceases, so you could go on forever as new resources are added to the net, another book comes out by a historian debunking the old vein of thought (most historians quote past work or rely on what's been done before so at times myth can tend to creep in or analysis becomes accepted until convincingly challenged). I spent 10 years researching They Met at Shiloh and in the editing phase found things that I'd gotten wrong, time from writing to editing being long enough new material became available online.

I recently read a blurb Battle of Shiloh, Shattering Myths]http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/shiloh/shiloh-history-articles/battle-of-shiloh-shattering.html]Battle of Shiloh, Shattering Myths calling into question the stories of the Bloody Pond, something that is standard fare in any work on the battle. It's a point on the map at the NPS site and plays a minor part in my novel, but it just goes to show that research can never be to exhaustive, but you have to stop and write sometime.


----------



## Linda Acaster

A bit OTopic. Or maybe not:

Hi Phil - I noticed your link to your FB Fanpage as I'm considering taking the plunge there, and noticed it was new so Liked it (I believe 25 Likes and you can claim a shorter URL).

My question is two-fold and to everyon:

a) apart from book news, what do you add into your FBPage that you don't upload to your website/blog?
b) do those who write multi period have two (or more) FBPages, or is it easier to keep all your books under your name?

Thanks for any responses. Hope you are having a great few days.


----------



## phil1861

Linda Acaster said:


> A bit OTopic. Or maybe not:
> 
> Hi Phil - I noticed your link to your FB Fanpage as I'm considering taking the plunge there, and noticed it was new so Liked it (I believe 25 Likes and you can claim a shorter URL).
> 
> My question is two-fold and to everyon:
> 
> a) apart from book news, what do you add into your FBPage that you don't upload to your website/blog?
> b) do those who write multi period have two (or more) FBPages, or is it easier to keep all your books under your name?
> 
> Thanks for any responses. Hope you are having a great few days.


Thanks for the like!

I've primarily been using mine for book related announcements, information on Shiloh, announcing blog posts, etc. My blog is for longer news and views or analysis posting. I'll post something to my fan page and then share it on my wall using that as another draw to the fan page. I'm still finding my groove as it were for how to best use it on FB.


----------



## JRTomlin

I agree that the research never stops. I always look for sources that I might have previously missed, newly published ones or original sources that were not previously available.

How is everyone doing this Christmas season?

The sales on my historical novels have been pretty breathtaking, better than I could have hoped.


----------



## Grace Elliot

Linda Acaster said:


> A bit OTopic. Or maybe not:
> 
> Hi Phil - I noticed your link to your FB Fanpage as I'm considering taking the plunge there, and noticed it was new so Liked it (I believe 25 Likes and you can claim a shorter URL).


Is any kind person able to explain how you obtain the shorter URL for an author FB page (I have more than 25 likes and so qualify.) 
much appreciated, 
Grace x


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

My historical novel series _*Southern Swallow*_ has been in the making since 1975, when I was researching my master's thresis on the foundations of the Sung Dynasty (_*The Reign of the Emperor Kao-tsung: The Restoration of the Southern Sung Dynasty - 1127 - 1164*_). I felt then that there had to be a way to make one of history's most fascinating period accessible to non-eggheads.  Several tries later and reams of manuscripts, the five book series was launched, and the first three books are catching on,

  ​
Edward C. Patterson


----------



## Peter Alan Orchard

Hello! I'm Peter Alan Orchard and I write historicals set against ancient and medieval backgrounds, including this ancient Greece whodunnit, 'A Pig in the Roses'. My latest is 'The Painter of Lemnos', a 12,000-word story set during the Trojan War. All details are at http://www.peteralanorchard.net and all my titles are available for Kindle.

Peter


----------



## Linda Acaster

Hello Peter, welcome to the thread. I remember reading another short of yours, title escapes me (sorry, I shall have go look on my Kindle) but an Anglo-Saxon period. It was very atmospheric.

I suggest you help yourself by sorting out a signature line with your covers.


----------



## Peter Alan Orchard

Thank you, Linda. The story you read was 'Starlight', and I'm writing a follow-up to it at the moment. I've also taken your advice on the signature! 

Peter


----------



## Lisa_Follett

I love Regency romance, although I also enjoy Georgian and Victorian as well. I will occasionally read medieval romance.


----------



## JRTomlin

One of the thing we haven't mentioned much is the difficulty with cover art. Finding cover art that has the right look for our periods can be very difficult, especially for medieval or earlier. Although I just managed to find a beautiful piece of art for _Countenance of War_, believe me it's not cheap and it took a lot of looking. Sticking a model in some random armor or a fake-looking medieval dress doesn't cut it for me.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

JRTomlin said:


> One of the thing we haven't mentioned much is the difficulty with cover art. Finding cover art that has the right look for our periods can be very difficult, especially for medieval or earlier. Although I just managed to find a beautiful piece of art for _Countenance of War_, believe me it's not cheap and it took a lot of looking. Sticking a model in some random armor or a fake-looking medieval dress doesn't cut it for me.


Aww, lighten up JR. I bet some of the cheesy covers require more brain cells than the interior. Like, is that the hero groping the heroine on this cover or what? Are those the heaving bosoms or are there more heaving bosoms inside? And other important questions of literary merit.

In my case, the prehistoric carved potatoes worked well. Both Daryl Hannah and Raquel Welch said they were too busy to pose in torn skins again, so there you go, I had to find something appropriate to the period and authentic. That wasn't easy until the five or ten minutes on the web to find a great photo of Newgrange mound at night and the photog let me use it. Thanks, Declan. No one really thinks those boulders are potatoes, except a few trolls on another website.

So yes, this is definitely a matter of taste. If I see a cheesy cover I get indigestion. But there's a market for that.


----------



## Lisa J. Yarde

I'll agree that cover art is one of the harder aspects of making a historical marketable. The headless girl in the ostentatious gown which was / is a staple of our genre is useless to me - wouldn't be authentic for any of my medieval stories. I'm not a big fan of photos either. Spent a lot of time on istock only to discover all the different variations on "girls with swords". Sigh. Creative Commons has lots of public domain art that's good for covers.


----------



## JRTomlin

BRONZEAGE said:


> Aww, lighten up JR. I bet some of the cheesy covers require more brain cells than the interior. Like, is that the hero groping the heroine on this cover or what? Are those the heaving bosoms or are there more heaving bosoms inside? And other important questions of literary merit.
> 
> In my case, the prehistoric carved potatoes worked well. Both Daryl Hannah and Raquel Welch said they were too busy to pose in torn skins again, so there you go, I had to find something appropriate to the period and authentic. That wasn't easy until the five or ten minutes on the web to find a great photo of Newgrange mound at night and the photog let me use it. Thanks, Declan. No one really thinks those boulders are potatoes, except a few trolls on another website.
> 
> So yes, this is definitely a matter of taste. If I see a cheesy cover I get indigestion. But there's a market for that.


Why are there potatoes on your medieval Irish novel cover? There weren't potatoes in medieval Ireland.  (Kidding)

There are people who have used photos very successfully, so I'm not saying it can't be done. It just doesn't suit my taste. My next cover will still only be around $200 including the designer and the art which isn't terrible.

I wanted something that looked very medieval Scottish but authentically which meant NO KILTS! *huge eye roll* And the right kind of armor and weapons. Yeah, I'm getting really picky.


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## EGranfors

A prequel to Tale of Two Cities.

It's just under 60,000 words. Too short??


----------



## ketadiablo

*FREE BOOK - February 3rd and 4th*

Today and tomorrow! PLEASE DOWNLOAD AND LEAVE A REVIEW ON KINDLE.

FREE! BOOK! FREE copy of HOLDING ON TO HEAVEN 2day Keta Diablo! western, erotic kindle http://amzn.to/AiGwGt

HELP SPREAD THE WORD PLEASE! AND PLEASE LEAVE A REVIEW. Thanks for your support!

Have a great weekend, Keta
http://ketaskeep.blogspot.com


----------



## JRTomlin

I am really excited at signing an agreement with an artist to use his painting of the 2nd day of the Battle of Bannockburn. It's take a couple of weeks of back and forth at least partially because we had other things going on, but today we signed an agreement so now my cover designer can start working on the cover itself.

Here's a link to the art: http://www.markchurms.com/mm5/graphics/bannockburn-l.jpg

In the press of battle, you can even see the banner of my main character, the one with the blue chief and three white stars.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Wow! Well done. That looks absolutely cracking.


----------



## jabeard

Congrats, J.R. I look forward to seeing the completed cover.


----------



## Andrew Ashling

My _Dark Tales of Randamor the Recluse_-series is sort of Alternate History, with a touch of Fantasy. No magic or strange creatures, though. It has a medieval setting, but it's actually a post-apocalyptic reinvention of the Middle Ages.

Since these are not "our" Middle Ages I went for plausibility.

There are strong themes of dynastic struggles, warfare and intrigue, among a lot of other issues. The main characters are gay.

The first trilogy, _The Invisible Chains_ (_Bonds of Hate, Bonds of Fear & Bonds of Blood_) is just shy of 400k words.

I'm writing a sequel-trilogy, _The Invisible Hands_, of which the first book, _Gambit_, is in the editing stage.
I hope to publish it around April 2012.


----------



## Grace Elliot

That's quite a catalogue of books in your signature now, Andrew - I remember when you just had two! 
Grace x


----------



## Andrew Ashling

Eh... thanks... The next (6) is in the editing stage, and I'm writing no. 7. 
You know what they say: the best publicity for your book is your next book.


----------



## EGranfors

Used my Sydney's Story for the speed date an agent hour at SFWC. I got a good response from 2 agents, very interested. Now all I need is a "perfect" draft to send out (agent said that word, it must be perfect)


----------



## JRTomlin

Grace, I love the cover of your cat book!



jabeard said:


> Congrats, J.R. I look forward to seeing the completed cover.


Thanks. I should have my new covers (also getting new covers for all my fantasies) in about a week. I'll post it when it's done. The same designer who did the covers for Freedom's Sword and A Kingdom's Cost is doing them. 

Edit: Fixed it so I was replying to the right post. lol


----------



## Linda Acaster

EGranfors said:


> Used my Sydney's Story for the speed date an agent hour at SFWC. I got a good response from 2 agents, very interested. Now all I need is a "perfect" draft to send out (agent said that word, it must be perfect)


Er... sorry EGranfors, but yes. That's the way the publishing industry works now. They want to take on novels which are as close to publication as possible. So polish it within an inch of its life.

Great news that you had a good response from TWO agents. That's the way to go!


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

How about a little history blended with fantasy and my actual life experience. I have a novel that pushes the envelop called The Road to Grafenwöhr, which has garned 9 good reviews so far (mostly 5-stars). Here's the synopsis:

PFC Quincy Summerson begins his military adventure in 1968 in Bavaria realizing that his presence stirs the paradigm - the thin line between twilight and night. His hyperactive imagination gets the better of him, and soon the world enlists him for a predestined purpose - to travel on the road to Grafenwoehr, where the wood is alive with myth and folk lore.

Set in a tense Cold War atmosphere during both the invasion of Czechoslovakia and the Vietnam call to arms, The Road to Grafenwoehr is one man's emotional journey to square nature's justice with humankind's disregard for it. It's a summons for a least likely and reluctant champion. But those called to service rarely choose where they serve. They just answer it, ripening to their purpose. For Quincy Summerson, a hero's life is not his choice, but can he ignore the call? Can he stay off the road once the twilight snares him?

From the Preface: "The Road of Grafenwöhr owes its existence principally to my own good fortune to be stationed in Germany and that bustling Bavarian town between 1967-68. Although the work is far from autobiographical, most of the events of a historic and pictorial nature (and even some used for the fantasy) are recounted from my direct experiences. Such is the web we weave.

During the last days of authoring this work, my father passed away. Therefore, this work is dedicated to his memory and also to the memory of all the brave heroes who - from Bastogne to Peleliu - have made our world possible through their sacrifice."

Edward C. Patterson


----------



## Caddy

The Gastien Series is Historical Fiction/Family Saga.

Gastien's story takes place in nineteenth century France, during the time that the bohemain artists were discovering Impressionism and moving into more abstract styles. Montmartre was the hot spot for all things creative.

During this era, hashish, morphine, and heroin were all legal. Not to mention the liquor absinthe and a variety of other mind altering substances. All kinds of vices were prevalent and this was one of the most decadent times in history. It was also one of the most important times in art history.

Because I am also a painter, this period fascinates me. I am surprised more novels have not been written about it.

Here is the description of the first book in the series (Gastien Part 1: The Cost of the Dream, which came out August 2011):

In this first book of the Gastien series, young Gastien Beauchamp begins his journey from the farm to Paris with two goals in life. The first is to become an artist with his own studio, following his own rules. That is an almost impossible dream for a peasant with no money or formal training. Paris spits out talented men into the gutters every day. "Good" gets you nowhere. "Great" maybe gets you a bowl of soup.

The second is to become the greatest lover in France. That should be easy. With his stunning looks and willingness to learn, the women of Paris are about to be awakened in a way they have only dreamt about in the nineteenth century!

Gastien also has focus, drive, and raw, natural talent. With the dream burning inside of him, he is determined to succeed at any cost. Poor Gastien. If he could only know in advance what brutal struggles await him, he might turn around and go back home.

Sometimes the "impossible" is possible. But the cost can be extremely high.

Gastien Part 2: From Dream to Destiny is also out. There will be at least 4 books in this series.

Gastien's fanpage is http://www.facebook.com/Gastien.Beauchamp


----------



## Grace Elliot

JRTomlin said:


> Grace, I love the cover of your cat book!


So glad you like it! 
G x


----------



## Miriam Minger

So many wonderful historical novels to read from this thread.

Have a great weekend curled up with a great book!

Miriam Minger


----------



## Grace Elliot

FREE 25th and 26th February.


Currently 4.6 / 5 stars Amazon US (18 reviews)

"I knew when I needed a snack this was going to be a good book" CC Reviews

"Memorable and compelling." Night Owl Reviews

"It had my heart thumping and palms sweating." TJ from Affaire de Couer magazine.


----------



## JRTomlin

*A Kingdom's Cost is FREE today on Amazon!*​
​
Scotland is occupied; Scottish resistance is crushed.

Eighteen-year-old James Douglas can only watch as the Scottish freedom fighter, William Wallace, is hanged, drawn, and quartered. But even under the heel of a brutal English conqueror, the Scots may still have one hope for freedom: the rightful King of the Scots, Robert the Bruce. James swears fealty to the man he believes can lead the fight against English tyranny.

The Bruce is soon a fugitive, king only in name. The woman James loves is captured and imprisoned. Yet James believes their cause is not lost. He blazes a path in blood and violence, cunning and ruthlessness as he leads a guerrilla war to restore Scotland's freedom. James knows if he is captured he will share Wallace's fate, but what he truly fears is that he has become as merciless as the conqueror he fights.

Next month, the sequel, _Countenance of War_, will be released.


----------



## Julie K. Rose

Hi everyone!

I'm so excited that my new novel _Oleanna_ is now available in all Kindle stores!

​
*"Oleanna is women's historical fiction at its finest. I thoroughly enjoyed every word and highly recommend it as a fascinating read giving insight into a lesser known country and period in history."*
~ Historical Novel Review

*"Oleanna is a fabulous character. She's strong but personable and definitely the sort of character that you find yourself rooting for...Historical fiction lovers will eat this book up!"*
~ A Bookish Affair

Set during the separation of Norway from Sweden in 1905, this richly detailed novel of love and loss was inspired by the life of the author's great-great-aunts.

Oleanna and her sister Elisabeth are the last of their family working their farm deep in the western fjordland. A new century has begun, and the world outside is changing, but in the Sunnfjord their world is as small and secluded as the verdant banks of a high mountain lake. With their parents dead and their brothers all gone to America, the sisters have resigned themselves to a simple life tied to the land and to the ghosts of those who have departed.

The arrival of Anders, a cotter living just across the farm's border, unsettles Oleanna's peaceful but isolated existence. Sharing a common bond of loneliness and grief, Anders stirs within her the wildness and wanderlust she has worked so hard to tame. When she is confronted with another crippling loss, Oleanna must decide once and for all how to face her past, claim her future, and find her place in a wide new world.

_Oleanna_ was short-listed in the 2011 Faulkner-Wisdom novel competition and is now available in all Kindle stores (US$5.99).


Read more reviews at Goodreads and Amazon.


----------



## Bailey Bristol

I write historical suspense with romantic strains. I always seek to develop strong attraction/love interest between my hero and heroine, but I also always include an element of "family found". I find I am drawn to that period of the mid 1890's when women were throwing off their corsets to ride bicycles on Sunday afternoon, and were not so weak as to collapse at the first hint of villainy. I write in American settings, too, which may not yet have found a strong readership. But with such fascinating times where corruption met honor on the back streets of a young America, how can I resist?


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Congrats, Julie Rose -- looks excellent.  Shall have a look.


----------



## Julie K. Rose

Thanks, JS! Just added yours to my Goodreads!


----------



## MartinLake

I love the picture of the Battle of Bannockburn, JR.  It will fit with your already excellent covers.

I've only been able to use the internet intermittently since moving to France but I'm back online now and eager to catch up.

Martin Lake


----------



## amy_saunders

I love historical mysteries. So my characters for The Jester's Apprentice ended up sleuthing in medieval England.


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## JRTomlin

Question:

If we ALL went over to the KDP forums and posted: _There should be sub-categories within historical fictio_n, do you suppose they would listen?

I just got a review on Freedom's Sword and a very nice review it was, but one thing it mentioned was that it would have been nice to know that the novel was Military Historical Fiction. The problem is that there IS no such category. Nor one for Historical Mysteries or Royal Historicals or Domestic Historicals.

Some would prefer by period but my own preference would be by type. But Historical Fiction is a large enough category and a very traditional category that it SHOULD have sub-categories so readers can find the type that they want without having to guess.


----------



## jabeard

JRTomlin said:


> Some would prefer by period but my own preference would be by type. But Historical Fiction is a large enough category and a very traditional category that it SHOULD have sub-categories so readers can find the type that they want without having to guess.


I'm with you. Type would be useful, but period not as much.


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## miamiajp

Thank you so much for starting this thread. Very much needed.
I also write historical fiction. Right now I am about to publish the first book "The Colony" Of my trilogy "Cuba."
Below you can follow the link for the Prelude which is available free at scribd.com
"Cuba" is a telling of one hundred and thirty years of the history of the island Nation through the struggles of five generations of one family. The first book as I mentioned before should be out this May, followed by the second book "The Republic" in August and the final book "The Revolution" in time for the holidays. 
Yay for all the historical fiction writers there and cheers again for the thread. 
Albert.


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## BRONZEAGE

miamiajp said:


> Below you can follow the link for the Prelude which is available free at scribd.com
> ...Albert.


_Buena suerte, Alberto. _

But where is the link mentioned in your post -- couldn't find it.


----------



## JRTomlin

Any historical fiction authors interested coordinating a free promo blitz. Post here or PM me if you're interested.


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## BRONZEAGE

Might be interested in the above, JR -- please PM me here.

Also, noted your recent post on the ammyzone HF forum re: Why not more categories within HF on Amazon.

Heartily agree with that suggestion (but didn't reply as that unmoderated forum like others there has become such a pointlessly hostile place and populated mainly with people looking for freebies, flea market bargains or library copies. Not a great sales venue. )

Suggest contacting ammyzone directly via Seattle, and not by using the online Help function as those messages go offshore and you will only get a boilerplate reply from someone who doesn't care or has no authority to implement your suggestion. --- Perhaps a blitz of such requests from HF authors might prompt better categories for HF on Amazon?

My title has also been in a _"top 100" blahblah _ list for weeks but the particular category is actually a nonfiction category and not HF, thus it doesn't impact the desired target. One would think Amazon would want to assist in targeting readers, not make customers wade through hundreds/thousands of HF titles to find what is of interest to that reader. Noting that it might not be possible to do this with existing HF titles, only new titles; not sure about that from Amazon's perspective. [ : the product detail page could be edited by the author/publisher ? ]

Perhaps use this thread to post a standard request to improve its HF categories, that others can copy and paste into a letter to Amazon in Seattle? I'd prefer to see categories by region or era and not subgenres like "vampire historical fiction" -- !


----------



## JRTomlin

BRONZEAGE said:


> Might be interested in the above, JR -- please PM me here.
> 
> Also, noted your recent post on the ammyzone HF forum re: Why not more categories within HF on Amazon.
> 
> Heartily agree with that suggestion (but didn't reply as that unmoderated forum like others there has become such a pointlessly hostile place and populated mainly with people looking for freebies, flea market bargains or library copies. Not a great sales venue. )
> 
> Suggest contacting ammyzone directly via Seattle, and not by using the online Help function as those messages go offshore and you will only get a boilerplate reply from someone who doesn't care or has no authority to implement your suggestion. --- Perhaps a blitz of such requests from HF authors might prompt better categories for HF on Amazon?
> 
> My title has also been in a _"top 100" blahblah _ list for weeks but the particular category is actually a nonfiction category and not HF, thus it doesn't impact the desired target. One would think Amazon would want to assist in targeting readers, not make customers wade through hundreds/thousands of HF titles to find what is of interest to that reader. Noting that it might not be possible to do this with existing HF titles, only new titles; not sure about that from Amazon's perspective. [ : the product detail page could be edited by the author/publisher ? ]
> 
> Perhaps use this thread to post a standard request to improve its HF categories, that others can copy and paste into a letter to Amazon in Seattle? I'd prefer to see categories by region or era and not subgenres like "vampire historical fiction" -- !


I've been told that Amazon at least glances at those, but it was in addition to other ways. 

I've contacted them about that issue through every possible channel, but as long as it's just me (or you and me  ), we're not likely to get very far. It would be helpful if other HF authors and especially readers would contact them. One thing I intend to point out the next time I contact them is that even Barnes & Nobles has Historical Fiction sub-categories.

Maybe you could think up a standard message? Such requests could get results if they got quite a few of them.

Probably the product page would have to be edited by the author/publisher.


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## Shelia A. Huggins

A Reckoning in Belvoir and Howling Rail are both set during mid-1800s, pre-Civil war and during the Civil war. Mix the time period in with a serial killer or werewolves on the Underground Railroad...and it makes for something very different. I often refer to my writing as dark fiction in an even darker time period. Just saying it's historical somehow doesn't capture it. Subcategories would be great because I also like to read the same types of books. I'm a little behind, so I'm just getting to one of Matthew Pearl's books.


----------



## Cody Young

Writing in several historical periods has its advantages - one of them is that you quickly find out which time period the readers like best. 

So far, I've done a medieval time travel (Johnny Doesn't Drink Champagne), two Victorian novellas (my bodice rippers - Scandal at the Farmhouse and The Lady and the Locksmith) and a World War Two romance about the D-Day landings (American Smile). The medieval book outsells all the others - but this may be because it has a paranormal element. WW2 has the smallest market (yes, very surprising - but perhaps it is a less popular setting for romance) Since I'm happy to write in any time period, any advice about what to try next? I'm considering the French Revolution. But should I be trying to build up a name for writing in ONE historical time period?


----------



## otterific

I just discovered this thread. I'm currently writing a historical romance series. It does have time travel elements in it. The setting of my series is something I don't see a lot of. Mine are set in the Rocky Mountains of the early 1800's. Each book follows a specific time in the history of the area now known as Yellowstone National Park. Since my books are historical fictions, I do bend the actual history of the area to suit my stories, but I always include a dear reader letter at the end, explaining the true history and how I "tweaked" it.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

[ JR. Will write one. Meanwhile, please send that PM re: promo if that's still on . ]

Here's a question for discussion. Hope readers would chime in also. The question is,

When one adds elements to a purportedly historical fiction, elements like: vampires, time travel, and so forth, how does that fit into a different era whose citizens have a different belief system?

EG, the earlier era may not have had any notion of vampires, nor time travel. How does the author make fantasy elements logically fit into the earlier time frame?

This is admittedly a devil's advocate sort of question. For me, Gabaldon's premise using time travel never worked and thus the entire novel failed. Not to mention the abundant anachronisms in what was sampled before I gave up on it, but that is a different issue.

There could be a comic spin put on this issue. Imagine Jamie meeting whats-her-name and instead of being supposedly captivated by her unfamiliar 20th century dress, speech, and manners, he had said: "You're...you're...an epistemological impossibility! Plus you talk funny! Get thee hence! "

Or a vampire drinking blood that contains diseases it doesn't have the right antibodies for and the vampire develops the Plague. Etc.


----------



## otterific

I never read any of Gabaldon's books. I don't even know what they are about, other than they are time travels. The era my heroine travels back to in my first time travel is the early 1800's Rocky Mountain region, a time when very very few white men knew the area. The local Indians were very spiritual, so that's how the time travel is explained in their eyes/belief system.


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## russianfiction

Hello, The author for whom I am publishing is in post-production in writing an EPIC, that would compose of a thriller with historical content, time travelling, Nazi Germany, conspiracies, and so much more! Be sure to check it out in a year or so when the untitled for now EPIC would be complete!!!!!


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## patthebrit

Hello, everybody.

I'm a fan of ancient Mediterranean history, especially the late Roman Republic. My novel "Our Master, Caesar" (B0053R4D12) is about the great Gaius Julius.

Details, reviews, photos & images are on my website www.romanwriter.plus.com

If you share my interest, I'd like to hear from you.

Patricia Hunter (UK)


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## Miriam Minger

My favorite time period is medieval...and of course, ANYTHING Viking!  

Miriam Minger


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## MartinLake

JRTomlin said:


> Any historical fiction authors interested coordinating a free promo blitz. Post here or PM me if you're interested.


I'd be very interested in coodinating a blitz like this. Martin


----------



## JRTomlin

BRONZEAGE said:


> [ JR. Will write one. Meanwhile, please send that PM re: promo if that's still on . ]
> 
> Here's a question for discussion. Hope readers would chime in also. The question is,
> 
> When one adds elements to a purportedly historical fiction, elements like: vampires, time travel, and so forth, how does that fit into a different era whose citizens have a different belief system?
> 
> EG, the earlier era may not have had any notion of vampires, nor time travel. How does the author make fantasy elements logically fit into the earlier time frame?
> 
> This is admittedly a devil's advocate sort of question. For me, Gabaldon's premise using time travel never worked and thus the entire novel failed. Not to mention the abundant anachronisms in what was sampled before I gave up on it, but that is a different issue.
> 
> There could be a comic spin put on this issue. Imagine Jamie meeting whats-her-name and instead of being supposedly captivated by her unfamiliar 20th century dress, speech, and manners, he had said: "You're...you're...an epistemological impossibility! Plus you talk funny! Get thee hence! "
> 
> Or a vampire drinking blood that contains diseases it doesn't have the right antibodies for and the vampire develops the Plague. Etc.


I like your theory of vampires getting the plague. It would help me not yawn at the mention of them, werewolves, etc. As for Gabaldon, I couldn't get past her miserable take on Scottish "dialect". I threw the novel against the wall within a few pages.


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## Linda Acaster

The thread seems to have lapsed so I'm giving it a boost in case any new (or old) comers want to update their books.


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## Andrew Ashling

I published the fourth book in my pseudo-historical series last month.

I don't know whether my book fits the bill exactly. It's more Historical Fantasy. No magic, no magical creatures or wizards, but a post-apocalyptic medieval setting. Oh, and explicit gay scenes. On the other hand: I aimed for plausibility. YMMV, though.

You can check them out, here on Kindleboards.
_(I already mentioned the first three books in an earlier post, but for completeness' sake, I'll list them again.)_

*Dark Tales of Randamor the Recluse*

Book I: The Invisible Chains - Part 1: Bonds of Hate

Book II: The Invisible Chains - Part 2: Bonds of Fear

Book III: The Invisible Chains - Part 3: Bonds of Blood

Book IV: The Invisible Hands - Part 1: Gambit

Links to Amazon in my signature.

----------
*The first 12 chapters* of the first book in the _Dark Tales of Randamor the Recluse Series_ are online as a _*FREE*_ read.
Twelve chapters, over 60,000 words long, should give you a good idea if this story is something for you.
And to make it even easier you can download the first twelve chapters of this series, with an introduction, for FREE in _*mobi*_ (kindle-compatible) and _*epub*_ format on *my site*, right on the landing page.


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## John Blackport

I feel a little silly having my books tagged as "historical", since they take place in an imaginary world.


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## Caddy

My latest book, Tristan Michel: Bloodline of Passion is the 3rd in The Gastien Series and takes place in early twentieth century, moving into the Roaring 20's.  This one primarily takes place in America, whereas the first two took place in ninteenth century France.  It was fun writing a story in this "new" era!


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## Miriam Minger

Love your covers, Caddy!

Miriam Minger


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## MartinLake

I've been featuring talks with historical novelists on my blog, martinlakewriting.wordpress.com.

So far, I've featured David Gaughran, Ty Johnston, S.J.A. Turney, Lynn Shepherd and Angus Douglas. 

Next up are Gordon Doherty, James Wilde, M.C. Scott, Douglas Jackson and Robyn Young. 

Please stop by and take a look.


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## Shayne Parkinson

I've a new book out, set in the years of the Great War. More than any of my earlier books, the plot was shaped by that single huge event, so writing it was a new experience in some ways.

I'm currently reading a study of the 1918 influenza pandemic in New Zealand, which is going to have a major influence [inadvertent pun] on my next book. It's utterly engrossing.


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## Linda Acaster

Good to hear from you Shayne. I suspect my grandfather died of that pandemic (in the UK). He's in a War Graves "grave" and I really need to get a copy of his death certificate to be sure. Time! If I get into family geneology that'll be the end of my fiction. Best of luck with your research.

Good to hear from you, too, Martin. I'm out of touch with your blog so I'll call by. Thanks for the nudge.


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## JRTomlin

I just ordered cover art for the third novel in my Black Douglas Trilogy which has me rather thrilled. It will be original art by the artist who also did the art for _Countenance of War_ (see my sig  ). In style and topic it will be somewhat similar to this piece by the same artist:

http://www.markchurms.com/Merchant2/graphics/single-print-l.jpg

He's a busy artist so I had to order it well ahead since the book won't be out for several months, but I'm really excited that we have started discussing the details of the battle upon which the painting will be based.


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## Linda Acaster

JRTomlin: I'm not surprised you use him. His paintings are fantastic. Good find!


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## Miriam Minger

Shayne Parkinson said:


> I've a new book out, set in the years of the Great War. More than any of my earlier books, the plot was shaped by that single huge event, so writing it was a new experience in some ways.


Sounds wonderful. Love the title.

Miriam


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## Shayne Parkinson

Linda Acaster said:


> Good to hear from you Shayne. I suspect my grandfather died of that pandemic (in the UK). He's in a War Graves "grave" and I really need to get a copy of his death certificate to be sure. Time! If I get into family geneology that'll be the end of my fiction. Best of luck with your research.


Yes, it would be interesting to know if he was one of the victims. My husband's great-grandmother was one of the many who died of it here.

I used to be quite seriously into genealogy, and though it can be fascinating it certainly can eat up time and energy! I generally find that doing other research, not to mention constructing fictional family trees, fills the need for me now. 



Miriam Minger said:


> Sounds wonderful. Love the title.
> 
> Miriam


Thanks, Miriam!


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## Peter Alan Orchard

I have a new Anglo-Saxon short story out this week. 'The Cross of St. Mary's' is the second featuring Ulf of Leystoke and follows a year later than the action of 'Starlight'. Both are up on Amazon and Smashwords so far. All details, links and so on are on my blog: http://www.peteralanorchard.net. (Next project: a sequel to my Ancient Greece mystery, 'A Pig in the Roses'.).


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## Michael Parker

British East Africa 1898. Inspired by true events when the British Government built a railway line from Mombassa on the east coast to Lake Victoria in Uganda. I have published my latest eBook, HELL'S GATE on Amazon Kindle. First published by Robert Hale in 2007, this novel will almost certainly be welcomed by fans of Wilbur Smith. There is a good account of this book at www.michaeljparker.com, and I will be adding more to the forum as time goes by. Not yet available in paperback because I am waiting for a proof copy to arrive. Check it out though. It's a combination of action, adventure, romance and government conspiracies. Thrilling stuff. 200 soldiers against 10,000 Masai. Impossible? Yes. Rourke's Drift? No. But clever, all the same.


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## sandyL1090

Thanks for starting this thread! I love reading historical fiction, medieval England and early American are my favorites. The novel form brings it all to real life, you're not reading an after action report - so much more interesting.

My book, for younger readers, is set in Spanish St. Augustine in 1702. Living in St. Augustine for over 30 years, the story of the siege by the British was one of my favorites. Imagine cramming over 1,400 people into the Castillo de San Marcos for almost 2 months! Almost as many cattle out in the empty moat all the while surrounded by your worst enemies!

I wrote from the viewpoint of the local dogs and cats. Who else could slip in and out of gates and doors to spy so easily? Just look at your cat watching you - she might be taking notes - who knows?  I liked researching the early breeds of dogs in America too.


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## Shinteetah

Wow, good thread question! I think, if I could, I would categorize my novella as "historical paranormal mystery".

/clears throat/

_The onmyouji Tsurugu no Kiyomori, a practitioner of the mystic arts, has been engaged to protect the warlord's new bride from the fox spirit rumored to be near. Tsurugu and the shadow-warrior Shishio Hitoshi face an impossible challenge in teasing out a shape-shifter in the warlord's household - if such a creature is even present at all.

The handsome mute twin servants belonging to Lady Kaede are certainly suspicious, but it is the beautiful and strong-willed lady herself who draws Shishio's mistrust. Tsurugu and Shishio must move carefully - accusing the warlord's bride falsely would be death. But failing to identify the kitsune to the warlord is equally perilous, and there is more to discover. For an onmyouji knows secrets even the shadows do not...._

So, Heian/Kamakura setting + mythology/folklore + mystery = "historical paranormal mystery"


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## The Tortoise

I am an eclectic writer but I have written one straight forward historical novel called At the World's End which is set at the end of the Victorian Era and is principally about the Boer War in South Africa and it's effect on the British Empire. There is also a sub-plot about the Suffragette Movement.


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## ian stewart

Back in May last year JR Tomlin asked: "What is your sub-genre". He said his was strict historical. In my latest book, Nanyang, I follow a historical time line but within that parameter I introduce action, drama, romance, adventure and everything else that makes up the lives of people living in the turbulent times of my novel.

In Nanyang I have tried to give life to history with stories of people caught up in major events of the 200-year period covered, focusing in particular on a young woman torn from her quiet life in a Chinese village by a raiding party from Dutch Java, her brother who sets out to rescue her and their descendants. The history of East and South-East Asia from the mid seventeenth century to the early eighteenth century was determined to a large extent by rapacious foreign powers competing for regional trade and territory. So the cast of characters includes Chinese, English, Dutch, French, Americans and Javanese.

If you are interested, take a look:

At either the eBook : http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006PHIPU4

or paperback: http://www.amazon.com/Nanyang-Mr-Ian-Gordon-Stewart/dp/1468153013


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## JRTomlin

Anyone happen to have a copy of Froissart's Chronicles in the original French? I would like to compare three sentences in my translation (the John Jolliffe one) to the original. I'll probably break down and buy it but considering that I'll never use it otherwise (because my medieval French sucks  ) I really would like to find someone with a copy.


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## Andrew Ashling

JRTomlin said:


> Anyone happen to have a copy of Froissart's Chronicles in the original French? I would like to compare three sentences in my translation (the John Jolliffe one) to the original. I'll probably break down and buy it but considering that I'll never use it otherwise (because my medieval French sucks  ) I really would like to find someone with a copy.


Maybe you'll find what you're looking for here.

The chapter summaries are in English, but they lead to transcriptions of the Medieval French texts.


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## JRTomlin

Andrew Ashling said:


> Maybe you'll find what you're looking for here.
> 
> The chapter summaries are in English, but they lead to transcriptions of the Medieval French texts.


VERY helpful. Thanks, Andrew. I just don't see any point in buying the whole thing in French, especially since only the first part relates to what I am writing. It's too bad it doesn't include all the chapters though, but I can see why that would be challenging.


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## Andrew Ashling

JRTomlin said:


> VERY helpful. Thanks, Andrew. I just don't see any point in buying the whole thing in French, especially since only the first part relates to what I am writing.


I don't think Froissart will miss the sale.

Anyway, glad I could help.


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## Andrew Ashling

JRTomlin said:


> It's too bad it doesn't include all the chapters though, but I can see why that would be challenging.


If you don't find what you need, and if you can give me some more leads I could try to find it. My French is passable to fair. Moi, je peux Googler en Français.


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## EGranfors

Go for it! Is there a separate group on Goodreads?


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## SBryantPoss

This is my first post and I'm obviously new to this, but I have a book that takes place during WWII in the Deep South and I wanted to mention it here. There are some far out time periods here, and I wanted to make sure I qualified (Nice Thread btw). Anyway, I'll get my signature fixed up after this.


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## Michael Parker

My latest eBook on Amazon is HELL'S GATE. Although it is set in British East Afrcia in 1898, I don't really see it sitting comfortably in the historical genre, but its date and period demands that it should. For me it is more like an action adventure, and fans of Wilbur Smith would probably be the kind of readers who would go for this book. It contains all the ingredients for an exciting read: action, romance, kidnap, political intrigue and man's endeavour and pioneering excellence. The story is inspired by fact, with all the elements and many of the characters of that period poured into the mix, although it is still a work of fiction. The price is currently held at about $3,00, and at the moment I have no plans to promote it on Kindle Select; I'm hoping this book will move on its own merits. Why not have a look at it?


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## JRTomlin

I am having absolute anxiety attacks. The artist who did the cover art for Countenance of War is currently working on the cover art for my next novel (working title) _The Hammer of England_. I can hardly stand the wait until I see what he's come up with it. He is basing the art on a detailed description I gave him of the single combat between Sir James Douglas, the Black Douglas, and Robert Neville, the Peacock of the North, near Berwick-upon-Tweed. Need I bother to mention that Sir James gave Neville a fatal lesson in not challenging the best knight in the two kingdom's? 

I am sooo chewing my nails to the quick waiting to see what he does.


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## MartinLake

*For a short time my novel 'Artful' is available for only $0.99, 77p or Euro 0.89.*

'Artful' takes up the story of the Artful Dodger from where Dickens left him, in court and sentenced to a punishment which we never learn.

In this book, the young pick-pocket is transported to New South Wales. On board ship he incurs the enmity of Fred Crimp, an enmity which will last for years and will pursue him across the ocean to England. An enmity which may end in his death.

*5 Star reviews:*

_'Artful' brings one of Dickens' best characters back to life._
This novel was highly enjoyable. The character of the Artful Dodger is skilfully depicted and faithful to Dickens' original creation. He's an appealing character, full of life and thoroughly irrepressible. There are plenty of other lively and memorable characters too, including some nasty villains well worthy of Dickens himself. The plot twists and turns and the author keeps the momentum going. A wonderful homage to Dickens!

_'A brilliant, rollicking read.'_
What a cracking story. It really rolls along at a pace, depicting 'The Dodger' as a lively and thoroughly engaging individual. Mr Lake's prose flows off the page, capturing the essence of those turbulent times when life or death was in the balance. The characters are convincing, the settings are lively and realistic. The story is totally engaging and I was swept along wanting to know how it turned out in the end.


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## MartinLake

I'm continuing my talks with fellow authors. This Friday I'm talking with Douglas Jackson. You can find my blog at http://martinlakewriting.wordpress.com.

Coming up are talks with Simon Toyne, MC Scott and N. Gemini Sasson.

Stop by and enjoy the chat.


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## HowardKwon

Great thread and group of authors and readers!  My new book is PROVENANCE which I posted on Book Bazaar.  Historical fiction rules!


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## BRONZEAGE

HowardKwon said:


> Great thread and group of authors and readers! My new book is PROVENANCE which I posted on Book Bazaar. Historical fiction rules!


Interesting title -- congrats, Howard, and good luck !


----------



## cuyleroverholt

My historical mystery is about a psychiatrist in 1907 New York who fears she may have provoked a patient to commit murder. I'm working on the sequel now. Both books feature a romantic subplot between the upper class protagonist and the man who used to be her family's stable boy.

I find the first decade of the twentieth century to be a refreshingly optimistic time to visit (good thing, since with all the research a historical novel requires, I spend an awful lot of time there!)

_A Deadly Affection_. "Captivating." Kirkus, Starred Review. "Masterfully crafted." Historical Novels Review. "Shines like a star in a highly competitive genre." ForeWord Clarion Reviews, 5 Stars.


----------



## JRTomlin

I got the concept art for the cover from the artist. It looks absolutely wonderful and I gave him the go-ahead on doing the art. VERY exciting. I'll post the art as soon as I have it.

By the way, Andrew, thanks for the offer! Sorry for not responding sooner. I finally sprang for a copy of the full translation. I may well be writing more novels in the period his Chronicle covers so I may as well have it in my library. 

ETA: Sshh. Don't tell anyone but I'm going to post the sketch of the concept art. Of course, it's B&W concept art, not finished art, but I really love the concept. This is specifically outside 14th century Berwick-upon-Tweed if anyone wonders and is the fight to the death between James, lord of Douglas and Sir Robert de Neville. Any feedback is welcome, of course.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

cuyleroverholt said:


> I find the first decade of the twentieth century to be a refreshingly optimistic time to visit (good thing, since with all the research a historical novel requires, I spend an awful lot of time there!)


How true --and a good thing I enjoy the travel to odd places and intense research for the bronze age --

BTW, congrats to Lisa Yarde on new title, 
The Burning Candle: A Medieval Novel


----------



## Julie Harris

_An Absence of Angels_, a medieval romance-adventure, set in the time of the Children's Crusade, 1195, France. 
http://www.amazon.com/An-Absence-of-Angels-ebook/dp/B0058I7LO2 $2.99

_Anna's Gold_, historical romance-adventure, set in the goldfields of Australia, 1865.
http://www.amazon.com/Annas-Gold-ebook/dp/B00580JNGY $2.99

_Beyond Laughter: The Marie Corelli Story_ is a fictional bio of the life of Victorian author, Marie Corelli. Lonely child, lonely woman. http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Laughter-Marie-Corelli-ebook/dp/B005HE7T26 $2.99


----------



## Michael Parker

QuoteModifyRemove


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm about to start pushing my latest Amazon release, HELL'S GATE. It has been available for a couple of months but I haven't promoted it because I have been away and I also wanted to change the jacket, which has now been done. It will be going free on October 25th. for three days, and I'm hoping this one will be something of a classic for me. I'm not a 'genre' writer in that I stick to the same theme, same leading character etc., but I write of different periods including 19th., 20th and 21st. centuries. HELL'S GATE is about colonial expansion and political intrigue in Africa (189. Inspired by historical fact and set in the glorious Rift Valley of Kenya, this tale will be of interest to fans of Wilbur Smith and others who might know, or want to know something of the Rift Valley. I enjoyed writing the book, first published by Hale of London five years ago, and now I hope to see significant sales on Amazon.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

iBAM! ( Irish books, arts, music) Chicago Oct 2012 featured historical authors Morgan Llewelyn, Colum McCann, Mary Pat Kelly -- all from big trad publishers --
and yours truly. A good time was had by all....Thanks to new and old fans who came for authors' talks and signings.

Meanwhile, a big congrats to Chamberton Publishing on the launch of its new *HF* anthology

_*Gaslight,*_ in the Golden Light Anthology series.


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Surely there must be more HF news after a month?


----------



## Consuelo Saah Baehr

Daughters - my historical family saga set in Jerusalem of 1800's. 23 five-star reviews

http://www.amazon.com/Daughters-historical-family-saga-ebook/dp/B0041844C2/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1352895399&sr=1-2&keywords=consuelo+baehr

"Engrossing&#8230;the story Baehr tells touches so deeply one is tempted to reread each page." Chicago Tribune

"No fiction that I have read has illuminated the nation that was Palestine through the medium of the family saga &#8230; as does this absorbing novel. Like a landscape painter, Baehr skillfully paints the background and it becomes a palpable experience. I for one long to know what has happened to the village and its families in the last forty years." Washington Post Book World

"Daughters is a big book in every sense ; a long, richly textured novel filled with wonderful characters and an extraordinary sense of historical detail. Consuelo Saah Baehr has written a blockbuster with a heart." Susan Isaacs, author of Almost Paradise and Shining Through.

"A tapestry of complex fully-developed characters whose lives are filled with challenges and struggles." Chicago Sun Times

"Sweeping, uncommonly stirring!"
Publishers Weekly

From the one room dwellings of a tiny village near Jerusalem to the elegant town houses of Georgetown; from a world steeped in ancient traditions to a world of independent women comes this multi-layered novel of the lives, loves, secrets and strivings of three generations of Palestinian Christian women.

Miriam Mishwe is born into a world that hasn't changed for centuries - rural Palestine in the last years of the 19th century. She marries a man chosen by her family but the world she sees as unchangeable is on the verge of upheaval.

Nadia is Miriam's daughter. Sent to a local British school, she adopts many modern ideas but is not ready to renounce her heritage. It is Nadia's child, Nijmeh, who looks to the west and calls herself by her English name, Star, when she goes to live in America. There she faces problems unknown in her childhood world of brooding hills and desert and brilliant skies.

Daughters is an unforgettable novel about courage, love and hope; and about two worlds - one ancient, one modern - and the extraordinary women who bridge them.


----------



## PaulLev

Historical mystery/science fiction (The Silk Code, now in Kindle) and history time travel (The Plot to Save Socrates, a few weeks away in Kindle)


----------



## stoneforger

Lagos, Nigeria. Summer of 1968. The war in Biafra is in full swing. Ethan Whittmore is a Captain of the Royal Marines, training government troops in support of the Nigerians.

When he learns of his brother's disappearance, a doctor with the Red Cross, he takes it upon himself to find his brother, dead or alive.

His efforts will lead him through the Nigerian jungles and rainforests amidst a bloody civil war. What lays at the end of the road though will be more than just an unexpected surprise and lots of broken promises..

***************************************
Amazon reviews:

4/5 stars:

Indeed a war novel.
October 17, 2012
By Nataliya Field
Format:Kindle Edition|Amazon Verified Purchase
The writer has a wonderful skill with words, painting a picture so well, that you could almost taste the bad whiskey. And the plot is fairly interesting as well, delving into war with grit and determination.

well worth the read, however I gave it only four stars, because it seemed slightly rushed, as in the book overall could have used a little more polishing.

4/5 stars:

Above all, a story that worths the reading and even more... October 3, 2012
By zisobl
Formataperback
I liked the book, both for the story and the ideas. It addresses mainly to a readership who likes meaningful adventure stories.

Story unfolds easily, keeping the reader in suspense, and the plot changes come rather smoothly, yet sometimes suprising. Details and descriptions are of the right volume and detail and give just the information needed for the total comprehension of the story.
Deeper meaning, at least the way I got it, deals with the vanity of war and all that comes with it. Various thoughts and ideas are projected through simple and short dialogs of the starring characters, and the reader can just stick to the words and miss the underlying bitterness of who and why started the civil war in Nigeria, as well as the war in general, playing death games against mostly innocent people.

Totally, I believe it's a very high value to money book, that worths the time reading it!

"On the riverside of promise" is currently available from Amazon for FREE, as well as from other online retailers.
Grab a copy, read, enjoy, rate and review!


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*The Southern Swallow Series
(2 more titles in the series coming)*
*Life in 12th Century China
A work 37 years in the making fromEdward C. Patterson, a China Hand*


----------



## Grace Elliot

Hope's Betrayal is FREE 6 - 9 December 2012.

http://www.amazon.com/Hopes-Betrayal-Huntley-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B0084ND8ZY

Synopsis:One wild, winter's night two worlds collide. 
Known for his ruthless efficiency, Captain George Huntley is sent to stamp out smuggling on the south coast of England. On a night raid, the Captain captures a smuggler, but finds his troubles are just beginning when the lad turns out to be a lass, Hope Tyler. 
With Hope as bait, the Captain sets a trap to catch the rest of the gang. But in a battle of wills, with his reputation at stake, George Huntley starts to respect feisty, independent Hope. Challenged by her sea-green eyes and stubborn loyalty Huntley now faces a new threat - his growing attraction to a sworn enemy. But a love where either Hope betrays her own kind, or Captain Huntley is court-marshaled, is not an easy destiny to follow.


----------



## ahmshah786

Three interconnected historical short stories, set in India and England in the 40s, 50s and 60s.

*The Dust Beneath Her Feet*



Safiyah's husband Aarif has worked as a servant, first for the British and then for the wealthy family living at Purana Qila. After a robbery leaves him under a cloud of suspicion, Aarif moves to north India to find work, leaving his wife behind with their two young daughters and no money. It is 1947: the British are leaving and Partition is looming, as tensions between Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus break out all across the country. Political riots escalate to mass murder, making neighbors distrust one another and travel perilous. The division of India and Pakistan places a border between husband and wife, just as Safiyah hears some gossip about Aarif that makes her question whether her family will ever be whole again. She has a difficult decision to make: whether she will allow a rumor to tear her family apart or risk embarking on a journey from which she may never return.

*A Change in the Weather*



When Imran was a young doctor in England, he faced a decision that would change lives forever. Now, as an old man entering the last days of his life with his loving family in India, the decision he made fifty years ago has the power to upend everything he stands for and destroy the devotion of his family and friends. One person knows his secret and must decide what is revealed or remain hidden. A Change in the Weather is a poignant tale about honor and loss, and how these two forces have unforeseen consequences that spill from one generation into the next.

Check the short story thread to see the next in The Purana Qila Stories series, *The Well-Tended Garden*.



Safiyah's husband has taken a second wife and started a new life in Lahore. Safiyah must return to India alone and raise her daughters, Henna and Laila. She tries to safeguard them from the disappointments of love by driving them towards ambitious heights in their studies, while she toils as a servant at Purana Qila. She is surprised by the offer of a second chance of happiness with a faithful admirer, but she is a mother first and has a difficult decision to make. She must weigh her happiness against the future of her daughters, who, despite her efforts, have also been vulnerable to the unspoken longings of the heart.


----------



## Michael Parker

HELL'S GATE (along with four more of my titles) is free today on Kindle.


----------



## Jen Black

I suppose mine is historical romance, though less romantic than some I've read. Always with a bit of adventure thrown in...
Jen


----------



## strath

Where has this discussion been. I've looked and looked. However, it does show the red-headed stepchild factor in our genre. It is good to see that I'm not so alone.

I'm strict historical for the most part. My indie deals the a tragic event that happened in Texas in the last winter of the Civil War. It's a character/survival study and a war novel more than a western that it's generally linked with.

I hope to hear from more of us.


----------



## donna callea

Glad to see this discussion. I love historical novels. It's my favorite genre, though I've only written one.
 The Haircut, a New Year's Tale It's a love story set in the 1940s.


----------



## Bill Perring

*The Seduction of Mary Kelly - Final Victim of Jack the Ripper. Book One is free to download on 24th and 25th May 2013 * http://www.amazon.com/The-Seduction-Mary-Kelly-ebook/dp/B00CFS2VG6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1366646340&sr=8-2&keywords=The+Seduction+of+Mary+Kelly

... and not as gruesome as it may sound .... 

On a damp Saturday morning in November 1888, the horribly mutilated remains of a young woman are found in a small room in Miller's Court, a squalid backwater running off of Dorset Street - oft times referred to as 'the worst street in London'. The body is identified as that of twenty-five year old Mary Jane Kelly, the fifth and final victim of Jack the Ripper. But who can be really sure it is her? And if it is, then what strange course of events might lead this bright, attractive young girl to such a fatal meeting?

The Seduction of Mary Kelly is a story of courage and determination, of villainy, madness and murder; tragic and comic by turns, but above all it's the story of Mary Kelly's intriguing journey from the poverty of a Welsh mining village, to the heights of London society, and finally to the worst street in Whitechapel - and an astonishing meeting with the serial killer the world has come to know as Jack the Ripper.

Mary Kelly's story is an epic one, depicting Victorian society at its best and worst, and weaving threads of deceit and betrayal, love, friendship, determination and courage that bring those two worlds inexorably together.


----------



## Beatnik Spy

I'm not sure how to categorize my Beatnik Spy series: paranormal espionage, historical men's adventure - but I love writing about the past and I don't know if I will ever write anything contemporary. I especially love the history of the 20th Century.









*The Red Jade Door:* Set in Mexico and Guatemala in 1954, The Red Jade Door opens with Gunner playing trumpet with a second-rate jazz combo in order to pay his bar tab and smuggling antiquities on the side to cover the rent. Things rapidly change when the the CIA blackmails him into retrieving a priceless artifact from a mysterious Mayan temple hidden deep in a danger-filled jungle. Along the way, he tangles with murderous thugs, spies, corrupt police, and a beautiful rebel who harbors secrets that could spell the difference between life or death for both of them. Lurking over it all is a mysterious dark force that stalks the jungle after a temple door that should have remained sealed and forgotten is left open after moonrise...
http://amzn.com/B0077CE21C









*The Godhead Formula:* South America, 1955 - Jazzman Gunner Quinn joins a gang of bikers roaring down the Pan American Highway, looking for kicks and loaded for trouble. Gunner takes a detour along the way - for revenge! Thrown from one perilous situation to another: Gunner tangles with bandits, ex-Nazis, the ghosts of the Inca kings, and and a beautiful brunette with a troubling past. But at the end of the road, he must face the terrifying test of - The Godhead Formula.
http://amzn.com/B009C00JUK


----------



## phil1861

Soldier centric Civil War Historical Fiction is what characterizes my Shiloh Series.

Campaigns aren't conducted by automatons, but men who volunteered because they wanted adventure or because they thought they saw glory for themselves and their family name. They Met at Shiloh is the point where for many they experienced the first taste of what war was really going to be about. First Manassas and Wilson's Creek, both fought in 1861 would be skirmishes compared to the numbers involved and the destruction wrought. For Philip Pearson, Stephen Murdoch, Michael Grierson, and Robert Mitchell the next four days define what it will mean to continue to serve in their armies. 

They Met At Shiloh (The Shiloh Series, #1)

The the firing ceases at Pittsburg Landing (Shiloh), those who are left standing are also left to clean up from the wreckage left behind. Those not torn in body have been cut instead to the quick of their souls. As Philip Pearson contemplates a return to the cloth he and his pards are preparing for the next campaign, to reduce the Mississippi town of Corinth, now fortified by the Confederates after their retreat from Shiloh's fields. For others like Will Hunter and Stephen Murdoch, it has meant prisoner of war stockades and hours of mind numbing boredom deep in Ohio. The war in the west has entered a period of intense campaigning with little result, but death does't take a holiday even when a thousand miles separates them from the front lines. 

A Certain Death (The Shiloh Series, #2)


----------



## Linda Acaster

I'm British, yet the 19th century lifestyles of Native Americans have fascinated me since childhood, mainly because of the bad press they invariably received at the hands of Hollywood. Yet a little reseach opened more questions than it answered. Well over a hundred books and articles later...

Nine 5 star reviews:
Beneath The Shining Mountains

Wrapped in a romance, this is life on the northern plains c1830s - from buffalo hunting to horse raiding, it is a story of honour among rival warrior societies and one woman's determination to wed the man of her dreams.


----------



## MartinLake

Linda Acaster said:


> I'm British, yet the 19th century lifestyles of Native Americans have fascinated me since childhood, mainly because of the bad press they invariably received at the hands of Hollywood. Yet a little reseach opened more questions than it answered. Well over a hundred books and articles later...
> 
> Nine 5 star reviews:
> Beneath The Shining Mountains
> 
> Wrapped in a romance, this is life on the northern plains c1830s - from buffalo hunting to horse raiding, it is a story of honour among rival warrior societies and one woman's determination to wed the man of her dreams.


I'm with you on the fascination with Native American peoples Linda. I wonder why this is? Probably too many repeats of Bonanza, Wagon Train and Rawhide when I was young. Good luck with this book. Sounds fascinating.


----------



## Linda Acaster

Thanks, Martin. I'm not sure why the fascination with Native American lifestyles - at least the upper Plains. The way my parents told it, I had the bug before we even had TV!

And thinking about it, in all the TV Westerns I do recall, Native Americans got such a bad, and stereotyped, press. I guess it is akin to our Celtic forebears "painting themselves with woad" - yeah, right.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*The Academician - Book One of the Southern Swallow Series by Edward C. Patterson*

*In 12th Century China, Li K'ai-men, a fisherman's son, earns his degree and is given a prestigious post as the Superintendant of Su-chou. The tale continues to track his progress as the Grand Tutor to the 9th Son of the Sung Emperor. This is a 5 book series.*

​
*Edward C. Patterson*​


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*High Adventure during the Great Migration*
*Sung Dynasty China - 12th Century*

*The Nan Tu*
*by Edward C. Patterson*

​


----------



## Melanie13

Great thread!

I have written two works of historical fiction set during WWII.  My first, "Ashford," is a coming of age story set mostly in England and a 2012 winner of the BRAG Medallion.  My second, "Violet Shadows," is a companion book to "Ashford," but can also be read as a standalone.  It deals more with the French Resistance, and I just found out that it is the winner of the Novella category for the Next Generation Indie Book Awards.


----------



## owenchoi

Tendrils of Life: A story of love, loss, and survival in the turmoil of the Korean War

Acute food shortages and lawlessness plague communist-occupied Seoul at the start of the Korean War in 1950. Jimin, a sixteen-year-old boy, aches to return to the safety of his old home on Ockdo (Jade Island), a remote island he'd left five years earlier. But only his father, who is absent from home, knows the way.

His adversary, a man who's been plotting to wipe out Jimin's family and steal their island, brings a tragedy and tries to eliminate him, forcing him to traverse the war-torn country on foot with his seven-year-old sister to find his father. But the war sweeps across the country multiple times and hinders them from meeting up with their father.

Back in Seoul, with Chinese troops (who invade the country to prop up the communists) bearing down on them, Jimin is forced to join the army, leaving his sister alone, hungry, and homeless in the cold, bomb-devastated city.

With action and suspense, Tendrils of Life is a rich and intriguing upmarket novel, interwoven with gripping character-oriented narratives and full of visual detail. It's a story of love and hope, greed and revenge, and the quest for survival in the turmoil of war - a depiction of resilience of the human spirit. 150,000 words.

US: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008PWSG2O
UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008PWSG2O
ca: http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B008PWSG2O


----------



## Caddy

*The Gastien Series, historical fiction for adults, is now complete.* It is a dramatic family saga that begins in the very free-spirited bohemian artist era of nineteenth century Paris. You can click on the books in my signature for reviews and samples. Here is the synopsis of each:

*Gastien Part 1: The Cost of the Dream*

When young Gastien Beauchamp flees the farm for Paris, the late nineteenth century bohemian era is in full swing. Color has always called to him, beseeching him to capture it on canvas and show people a new way of seeing things. His father belittled his dream of being an artist and tried to beat him into giving it up. The dream wouldn't die, but Gastien would have had he not left.

He also yearns to become a great lover. After the years of anguish he has endured at the hand of his father, it would be heaven to feel pleasure instead of pain.

However, the city of Paris has a ruthless agenda. Unless a man has money and connections, Paris unfeelingly crushes dreams and destroys souls. With neither of the required assets, Gastien faces living in alleys, digging in trash bins for food, and sleeping where a man is often killed for his threadbare blanket.

Left with only his dreams, Gastien stubbornly pushes on. He vows that absolutely nothing will stop him, not yet realizing what keeping that vow might mean. Sometimes the "impossible" is possible - but the cost can be extremely high.

*Gastien Part 2: From Dream to Destiny*

"I am Gastien Beauchamp, artist and lover. Any Frenchman would tell you that a peasant could never own property in nineteenth century France. Yet here I am, in my very own studio. The personal cost was horrendous. I barely survived the choices I made, and my sanity was pushed to its limits.

Still, I finally now have security, peace, and freedom. For the rest of my life I can spend time "making love to the color", making love to beautiful women, and enjoying the wild nightlife of bohemian Montmartre. What more could a man need or want?

Then, one night I see her. One look at Sophie and my heart wants to betray me! I try to tell myself that I know better. Who needs love, anyway? I am already married - to my art!

No woman would ever understand and accept my lifestyle; nor am I about to give that lifestyle up. Not when I paid so dearly for it! Besides, I am too badly damaged to ever open up my heart&#8230;and if Sophie found out about my past she wouldn't want to even know my name. I can't take that chance. I have had enough pain to last me a lifetime."

*Tristan Michel: Bloodline of Passion* *Nominated for Best Historical Fiction in the eFestival of Words Best of the Independent Ebooks 2013*

From the bustling streets of New York City to the smoky speakeasies of Roaring Twenties Chicago, Tristan finds huge financial success. Along with respect, tradition, and family, he promises himself that this will be enough. Having achieved peace by forgiving his father his debauchery, he's certain that there is nothing that could induce him to follow in his father's lascivious footsteps.

Like father, like son will never apply to Tristan.

Then the urgent whisper that has been telling him there should be more than what he is experiencing with his wife becomes a full blown roar. With a very proper wife that refuses to loosen up, Tristan learns that the passion of the father is very much the passion of the son. To deny it may be impossible, but to embrace it could cost him everything.

*Giselle: Keeper of the Flame*

Europe is full of dark memories. Giselle's love is forbidden; her chance to be a mother destroyed. She flees to America where she becomes the haute couture fashion designer to the wealthy, high-society Grand Dames of New York. After all, she had been mentored in Paris by the legendary Charles Worth himself.

Giselle's past remains cloaked in shadows, increasing her allure. Her heart is engaged by a man who comes to her only in secrecy, drawing her back to her mysterious past.

When her brother dies and his wife abandons their child, she takes on the care of her infant nephew. Giselle decides she has to stop and take stock of her life. She has been given her one chance to be a mother, but the cost will be the end of the few moments she can still have with her one true love.

Yet love is not easily destroyed for those who are strong enough to survive its pain.

*Gastien: Circle of Destiny*

Gastien Beauchamp will discover that destiny has a way of completing what it starts. He is the final link of the Beauchamp destiny - a destiny that will not be denied. Being the new darling of the cutthroat New York City art scene is wonderful, but a kiss from his mentor opened a door to a new and terrifying world. America in the 1940s is no easy place to be gay. His secret could cost him more than just his blossoming career. He could lose his life.

As his fame and wealth grow, Gastien's personal life plummets out of control. Finally embracing who he is, Gastien meets the man of his dreams when he moves to Paris. Unfortunately, that man has vowed to never give love a chance to break his heart again - and everything about Gastien sends loud warning signals to his brain.

Gastien wants it all: fame, fortune, and love.

Maybe that's asking for too much.

I hope you enjoy The Gastien Series, if you decide to give it a go.


----------



## 10105

I'm not sure whether _The Shadow on the Grassy Knoll_ qualifies as historical fiction. It's timeline ranges from post-WWII to 1963 and is about the JFK assassination and events that lead up to it. Some say it qualifies; others say not. Here's the book's website.

http://www.theshadowonthegrassyknoll.com


----------



## Tyler Cook

Both "Murder on Haint Branch" and "Edge of Heaven" are historical fiction novels based in the Appalachian Mountains during the 1890-1940 period. Both are super good and have received recognition from Dolly Parton for their historical accuracy.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE for the entire month of July at Smashwords.com. 
The Nan Tu
Book Two of The Southern Swallow Series
by 
Edward C. Patterson

Use coupon SW100 upon check out and enjoy
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1094*​
*"We all lived in the shadow of K'ai-feng's ashes now. No denying it. However safe we felt, the world hung by a silken thread." So begins the second book of the Southern Swallow series - The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration) and, like the first book, The Academician, it is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men. The Emperor Kao has proclaimed that his court and government will migrate to the south, a progress filled with adventure, intrigue, war and tragedy, thus setting a series of events in play that shaped the Middle Kingdom.

Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China, The Nan Tu is a tale of love, separation and sacrifice. Yet heroes emerge from the ashes and restoration is within their grasp. From the mountain lairs of bandits to the sweep of the fleet at sea, The Nan Tu will transport you to a world that should have never been forgotten. Still, there are more important things than empires and history. There's love and destiny - the destiny of Li K'ai-men's relics and the enlistment of his helpmates to guard over the membrane of time.

**

Use the same coupon for all 19 of my books - also on FREE promotion for this Month
Edward C. Patterson​*


----------



## Grace Elliot

Oh dear, it looks as if this thread has degenerated into sales pitch. What the heck! I'll join in too!

Just to alert you, dear reader, that to celebrate the release of 

both  and  are at the special price of 99 cents - for a limited time! 
Grab your copies now!


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*The Nan-Tu*
*Book II of the Southern Swallow Series*
*by Edward C. Patterson*
*482 pages*

​

*"We all lived in the shadow of K'ai-feng's ashes now. No denying it. However safe we felt, the world hung by a silken thread." So begins the second book of the Southern Swallow series - The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration) and, like the first book, The Academician, it is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men. The Emperor Kao has proclaimed that his court and government will migrate to the south, a progress filled with adventure, intrigue, war and tragedy, thus setting a series of events in play that shaped the Middle Kingdom.

Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China, The Nan Tu is a tale of love, separation and sacrifice. Yet heroes emerge from the ashes and restoration is within their grasp. From the mountain lairs of bandits to the sweep of the fleet at sea, The Nan Tu will transport you to a world that should have never been forgotten. Still, there are more important things than empires and history. There's love and destiny - the destiny of Li K'ai-men's relics and the enlistment of his helpmates to guard over the membrane of time.*


----------



## Redbloon

Historical romance set in Regency England. Some is fluff, some is a bit more historically accurate. I'm hoping to make my second (Lord Runthorne) into the start of a series by following some of the other characters, who's lives seem wrapped up at the end, and see what happens to their romances. Still on the drawing board though which I know seems to break all the rules of series writing. Lord Runthorne was written as a stand alone so hopefully that's ok.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today & Tomorrow August 20th and 21st at Amazon
The Academician
by 
Edward C. Patterson

Book I of the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series*

​
*"A bigger fool the world has never known than I - a coarse fellow with no business to clutch a brush and scribble. I only know the scrawl, because my master took pleasure in teaching me between my chores. Not many men are so cursed . . ." Thus begins the tale of Li K'ai-men as told by his faithful, but mischievous servant, K'u Ko-ling - a tale of 12th Century China, where state service meant a life long journey across a landscape of turmoil and bliss. A tale of sacrifice, love, war and duty - a fragile balance between rituals and passions. An epic commitment between two men to define the indefinable in their own world and time. Here begins the legacy of the Jade Owl and its custodian as he holds true to his warrants.

The Academician is the first of five books in the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series, capturing the turbulence of the Sung Dynasty in transition. Spanning the silvery days under the Emperor Hui to the disasters that followed, The Academician is a slice of world events that should never have been forgotten. Still, there are things more important than invasions and empires. The world's fate rests in the warrants of Li K'ai-men, this young scholar from Gui-lin, called master by his faithful servant, but known as Nan Ya to the world.
404 pages.

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow August 29th and 30th at Amazon*

*The Nan Tu*
*by *  
*Edward C. Patterson*

*Book II of the Southern Swallow series*

 [/url​

*"We all lived in the shadow of K'ai-feng's ashes now. No denying it. However safe we felt, the world hung by a silken thread." So begins the second book of the Southern Swallow series - The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration) and, like the first book, The Academician, it is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men. The Emperor Kao has proclaimed that his court and government will migrate to the south, a progress filled with adventure, intrigue, war and tragedy, thus setting a series of events in play that shaped the Middle Kingdom.

Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China, The Nan Tu is a tale of love, separation and sacrifice. Yet heroes emerge from the ashes and restoration is within their grasp. From the mountain lairs of bandits to the sweep of the fleet at sea, The Nan Tu will transport you to a world that should have never been forgotten. Still, there are more important things than empires and history. There's love and destiny - the destiny of Li K'ai-men's relics and the enlistment of his helpmates to guard over the membrane of time.
482 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow September 2nd and 3rd at Amazon

The Third Peregrination
by
Edward C. Patterson

Book II of The Jade Owl Legacy series

*​*

The world is on the brink, now that the relics flow together again. The new China Hands should have left the Jade Owl in the tomb, to fester silently for another age, but they didn't. Now there is a tapping in the basement and a flowering of new relics, all seeking to move Curator-General Rowden Gray and his crew into the field again to solve the mystery of The Seven Sisters. However, the world has changed since Rowden managed his first task. The new China Hands are sucked into the maelstrom of time, flowing together with the relics, now that the world is at the brink.

Rowden Gray and Nicholas Battle, joined by three new stalwarts in pursuit of the next level in the triad, find a fortress in a mystery deeper than the first warrant, something that compels them to return to China and unravel a more difficult truth - one that challenges them beyond time's membrane. This second book in the Jade Owl Legacy Series pushes the new China Hands to the world's brink - now that the relics flow together again. 
666 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Jack Zavada

I took my first shot at an historical mystery/thriller with *Mr. Lincoln for the Defense*. I have written westerns in the past, which required some research, but this was something else. I put in a solid year of research before I wrote a word.

It was fun to write, but I don't know if I'll stick with this genre. I have a series of adventure novels planned next.

Jack


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow September 5th and 6th at Amazon

Swan Cloud
by
Edward C. Patterson

Book III in the Southern Swallow series

*​*

"We were like Swan Clouds, or so my master Li K'ai-men said, because for ten years we drifted from place to place - city to city - one temporary capital after another." Ten years has passed since The Nan Tu, Book II of the Southern Swallow series. The Sung court and government has settled at the great city of Lin-an and peace is sought with the invading Jurchen. The stage is set for one of the most infamous incidents in Chinese history, known as The Yueh Fei Affair - an intrigue, which casts our adventurers into the perils of the times.

Book III of the Southern Swallow series - Swan Cloud, like its predecessors (The Academician and The Nan Tu) is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men, who must forgo his obligated mourning period and set out on a diplomatic mission for the Emperor Kao - a mission fraught with political intrigue and treachery. Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China (12th Century), Swan Cloud is a tale of separation and sacrifice - injustice and intrigue. It represents a turning point in this saga for our hero and his band of spiritual warriors.
490 pages 

[size=14pt]The Southern Swallow Series:

The Academician
The Nan Yu
Swan Cloud
The House of Green Waters (coming Fall 2013)
Vagrants Hallow

[size=12pt]Edward C. Patterson​*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today & the Weekend September 20th, 21st and 22nd at Amazon**
The Jade Owl
Book I of the Jade Owl Legacy
by 
Edward C. Patterson

My Flagship Novel

19 5-star Reviews

*​*

In China they whisper about the Jade Owl and its awful power. This ancient stone, commissioned by the Empress Wu and crafted by a mineral charmer, long haunted the folk of the Middle Kingdom until it vanished into an enigma of legend and lore. Now the Jade Owl is found. It wakes to steal the day from day. Its power to enchant and distort rises again. Its horror is revealed to a band of five, who must return it to the Valley of the Dead before the laws of ch'i are set aside in favor of destruction's dance. Five China Hands, each drawn through time's thin fabric by the bird, discover enchantment on the secret garland. Five China Hands, and one holds the key to the world's fate. Five China Hands. Only one Jade Owl - but it's awake and in China, they whisper again.

Professor Rowden Gray has come to San Francisco following a new opportunity at the East Asian Arts and Culture Museum, only to find that the opportunity has evaporated. Desperate, he means to end his career in a muddle of pity and Scotch, but then things happen. He latches on to a fascinating young man who is pursuing a lost relic that Professor Gray has in fact been seeking. Be careful for what you seek - you may just find it. Thus begins a journey that takes the professor and his companions on a spirited adventure across three-thousand miles of Chinese culture and mystery - a quest to fulfill a warrant long set out to ignite the world in myth and legend. The Jade Owl is the beginning of a series - a legacy that fulfills a terrible truth; and in China, they whisper again.
600 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow October 3rd and 4th at Amazon*

*The Nan Tu*
*by *  
*Edward C. Patterson*

*Book II of the Southern Swallow series*

 [/url​

*"We all lived in the shadow of K'ai-feng's ashes now. No denying it. However safe we felt, the world hung by a silken thread." So begins the second book of the Southern Swallow series - The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration) and, like the first book, The Academician, it is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men. The Emperor Kao has proclaimed that his court and government will migrate to the south, a progress filled with adventure, intrigue, war and tragedy, thus setting a series of events in play that shaped the Middle Kingdom.

Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China, The Nan Tu is a tale of love, separation and sacrifice. Yet heroes emerge from the ashes and restoration is within their grasp. From the mountain lairs of bandits to the sweep of the fleet at sea, The Nan Tu will transport you to a world that should have never been forgotten. Still, there are more important things than empires and history. There's love and destiny - the destiny of Li K'ai-men's relics and the enlistment of his helpmates to guard over the membrane of time.
482 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Grace Elliot said:


> Oh dear, it looks as if this thread has degenerated into sales pitch. What the heck! I'll join in too!


Yes, it does look that way. Unfortunate.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

I guess I'm not understanding the problem. This is the historical fiction genre thread in the Book Bazaar, where people offer their books for sale. That's why it is in the Bazaar, so people can post about their books for sale.

If you want a thread about reading historical fiction without sales pitches, check out the Book Corner. I think there's one already. If not, start one.

If you want to discuss the issues of writing historical fiction without sales pitches, check out the Writers' Café. Not sure if there's one there already, but if there isn't, start one. But don't post links to your books in it.

This thread is in the Book Bazaar. Sales are kinda the point.

Looking at it, it's been probably a year since there was any meaningful discussion here about historical fiction other than sales? If you want to have discussions, post discussions to the thread. Even the post you quoted, Bronzeage, is three months old.

If the thread isn't the thread you want, make it the thread you want by starting a conversation. The Romance thread here in the Book Bazaar is very active with conversations AND sales notices.

Betsy
KB Moderator


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow October 14th and 15th at Amazon

Swan Cloud
by
Edward C. Patterson

Book III in the Southern Swallow series

*​*

"We were like Swan Clouds, or so my master Li K'ai-men said, because for ten years we drifted from place to place - city to city - one temporary capital after another." Ten years has passed since The Nan Tu, Book II of the Southern Swallow series. The Sung court and government has settled at the great city of Lin-an and peace is sought with the invading Jurchen. The stage is set for one of the most infamous incidents in Chinese history, known as The Yueh Fei Affair - an intrigue, which casts our adventurers into the perils of the times.

Book III of the Southern Swallow series - Swan Cloud, like its predecessors (The Academician and The Nan Tu) is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men, who must forgo his obligated mourning period and set out on a diplomatic mission for the Emperor Kao - a mission fraught with political intrigue and treachery. Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China (12th Century), Swan Cloud is a tale of separation and sacrifice - injustice and intrigue. It represents a turning point in this saga for our hero and his band of spiritual warriors.
490 pages 

[size=14pt]The Southern Swallow Series:

The Academician
The Nan Yu
Swan Cloud
The House of Green Waters (coming Fall 2013)
Vagrants Hallow

[size=12pt]Edward C. Patterson​*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow October 26th and 27th at Amazon 

In the Shadow of Her Hem
by
Edward C. Patterson

Book V of The Jade Owl Legacy series

*​*

"China Hands! To Me!" A green fog has engulfed the Wei River Valley. The First Emperor's tomb is mysteriously rumbling. The Big Goose Pagoda is glowing like a lighthouse. And to blame? A bunch of Americans stranded in the consulate at Bei-jing, who, at the end of the last installment, came bursting through a portal in the People's History Museum. "China Hands! To Me!" With that command, Rowden Gray has summoned his forces to return to the action - to the Dragon's Pool in the shadow of Her hem, where the Jade Owl's overlord commands an army of creatures, engineering the end of the world; or at least, the world, as we know it.

In this last book of The Jade Owl Legacy, our mixed bag of adventurers face their greatest challenge. They must negotiate the perils of the People's government, the mysteries of the Palace of Broken Dreams, the dangers of the Ghost Lands and the mythic realm of the Classic of Mountains and Seas. Their odyssey delivers them to the final showdown - the Battle of the Full Moon, where all mysteries are revealed and every threat is settled. What began as a Sinologist's dream converges on everyone's nightmare. The Jade Owl calls you, but so does the muster to arms. Heed them both, but answer only one. "China Hands! To Me!"

The Jade Owl Legacy is a five book series. The first book (The Jade Owl) introduces a peculiar quest led by Professor Rowden Gray and a rag-tag team who follow a mysterious thread of instructions to thwart an ancient Chinese prophesy. Instead, they managed to set off events, igniting the crisis. Two demons, which possess a relic known as the Jade Owl, each in turn, after eons of imprisonment, test their land legs among the living. In The Third Peregrination, the Destroyer takes his turn with wrath and fire. In The Dragon's Pool, the Great Marshal takes his spin, preparing the way for a curious ritual that will restore the world to a prehistoric state. To combat these spirits, our heroes acquire extraordinary powers in an attempt to thwart destiny's course. However, destiny is not easily thwarted. In The People's Treasure, all hell breaks loose as our heroes are manipulated to serve destiny's course to fulfill the prophesy. However, In the Shadow of Her Hem, they bounce back against insurmountable odds and fight to save life from ultimate destruction. From San Francisco to New York, from Florence to China with her many faces, the Jade Owl proclaims an ancient evil that intends to triumph. This is the story of the brave hearts who rise to the challenge to tangle with the dark forces of yin. 
600 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## BRONZEAGE

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I guess I'm not understanding the problem.
> 
> If you want to have discussions, post discussions to the thread. Even the post you quoted, Bronzeage, is three months old.
> Betsy KB Moderator


Yes, clearly you don't understand the problem. No one posts here any more.

Perhaps you could help with the Obamacare website?


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today ONLY - October 29th at Amazon
The Academician
by 
Edward C. Patterson

Book I of the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series*

​
*"A bigger fool the world has never known than I - a coarse fellow with no business to clutch a brush and scribble. I only know the scrawl, because my master took pleasure in teaching me between my chores. Not many men are so cursed . . ." Thus begins the tale of Li K'ai-men as told by his faithful, but mischievous servant, K'u Ko-ling - a tale of 12th Century China, where state service meant a life long journey across a landscape of turmoil and bliss. A tale of sacrifice, love, war and duty - a fragile balance between rituals and passions. An epic commitment between two men to define the indefinable in their own world and time. Here begins the legacy of the Jade Owl and its custodian as he holds true to his warrants.

The Academician is the first of five books in the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series, capturing the turbulence of the Sung Dynasty in transition. Spanning the silvery days under the Emperor Hui to the disasters that followed, The Academician is a slice of world events that should never have been forgotten. Still, there are things more important than invasions and empires. The world's fate rests in the warrants of Li K'ai-men, this young scholar from Gui-lin, called master by his faithful servant, but known as Nan Ya to the world.
404 pages.

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today ONLY November 6th at Amazon*

*The Nan Tu*
*by *  
*Edward C. Patterson*

*Book II of the Southern Swallow series*

 [/url​

*"We all lived in the shadow of K'ai-feng's ashes now. No denying it. However safe we felt, the world hung by a silken thread." So begins the second book of the Southern Swallow series - The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration) and, like the first book, The Academician, it is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men. The Emperor Kao has proclaimed that his court and government will migrate to the south, a progress filled with adventure, intrigue, war and tragedy, thus setting a series of events in play that shaped the Middle Kingdom.

Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China, The Nan Tu is a tale of love, separation and sacrifice. Yet heroes emerge from the ashes and restoration is within their grasp. From the mountain lairs of bandits to the sweep of the fleet at sea, The Nan Tu will transport you to a world that should have never been forgotten. Still, there are more important things than empires and history. There's love and destiny - the destiny of Li K'ai-men's relics and the enlistment of his helpmates to guard over the membrane of time.
482 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Joel Arnold

Under my pseudonym (J.A. Arnold - I know - a tricky one), I wrote a YA historical novel, *Ox Cart Angel* http://www.amazon.com/Ox-Cart-Angel-Claires-Journey-ebook/dp/B005G481BU, about a young Metis girl and her photographer father on the ox cart/Red River trails in 1862.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today ONLY November 9th at Amazon

Swan Cloud
by
Edward C. Patterson

Book III in the Southern Swallow series

*​*

"We were like Swan Clouds, or so my master Li K'ai-men said, because for ten years we drifted from place to place - city to city - one temporary capital after another." Ten years has passed since The Nan Tu, Book II of the Southern Swallow series. The Sung court and government has settled at the great city of Lin-an and peace is sought with the invading Jurchen. The stage is set for one of the most infamous incidents in Chinese history, known as The Yueh Fei Affair - an intrigue, which casts our adventurers into the perils of the times.

Book III of the Southern Swallow series - Swan Cloud, like its predecessors (The Academician and The Nan Tu) is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men, who must forgo his obligated mourning period and set out on a diplomatic mission for the Emperor Kao - a mission fraught with political intrigue and treachery. Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China (12th Century), Swan Cloud is a tale of separation and sacrifice - injustice and intrigue. It represents a turning point in this saga for our hero and his band of spiritual warriors.
490 pages 

[size=14pt]The Southern Swallow Series:

The Academician
The Nan Tu
Swan Cloud
The House of Green Waters (coming Fall 2013)
Vagrants Hollow

[size=12pt]Edward C. Patterson​*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow November 16th & 17th at Amazon**
The Jade Owl
Book I of the Jade Owl Legacy
by 
[size=20pt]Edward C. Patterson

My Flagship Novel

19 5-star Reviews

*​*

[size=12pt]In China they whisper about the Jade Owl and its awful power. This ancient stone, commissioned by the Empress Wu and crafted by a mineral charmer, long haunted the folk of the Middle Kingdom until it vanished into an enigma of legend and lore. Now the Jade Owl is found. It wakes to steal the day from day. Its power to enchant and distort rises again. Its horror is revealed to a band of five, who must return it to the Valley of the Dead before the laws of ch'i are set aside in favor of destruction's dance. Five China Hands, each drawn through time's thin fabric by the bird, discover enchantment on the secret garland. Five China Hands, and one holds the key to the world's fate. Five China Hands. Only one Jade Owl - but it's awake and in China, they whisper again.

Professor Rowden Gray has come to San Francisco following a new opportunity at the East Asian Arts and Culture Museum, only to find that the opportunity has evaporated. Desperate, he means to end his career in a muddle of pity and Scotch, but then things happen. He latches on to a fascinating young man who is pursuing a lost relic that Professor Gray has in fact been seeking. Be careful for what you seek - you may just find it. Thus begins a journey that takes the professor and his companions on a spirited adventure across three-thousand miles of Chinese culture and mystery - a quest to fulfill a warrant long set out to ignite the world in myth and legend. The Jade Owl is the beginning of a series - a legacy that fulfills a terrible truth; and in China, they whisper again.
600 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow - December 14th and 15th at Amazon**
The Jade Owl
Book I of the Jade Owl Legacy
by 
[size=20pt]Edward C. Patterson

My Flagship Novel

19 5-star Reviews

*​*

[size=12pt]In China they whisper about the Jade Owl and its awful power. This ancient stone, commissioned by the Empress Wu and crafted by a mineral charmer, long haunted the folk of the Middle Kingdom until it vanished into an enigma of legend and lore. Now the Jade Owl is found. It wakes to steal the day from day. Its power to enchant and distort rises again. Its horror is revealed to a band of five, who must return it to the Valley of the Dead before the laws of ch'i are set aside in favor of destruction's dance. Five China Hands, each drawn through time's thin fabric by the bird, discover enchantment on the secret garland. Five China Hands, and one holds the key to the world's fate. Five China Hands. Only one Jade Owl - but it's awake and in China, they whisper again.

Professor Rowden Gray has come to San Francisco following a new opportunity at the East Asian Arts and Culture Museum, only to find that the opportunity has evaporated. Desperate, he means to end his career in a muddle of pity and Scotch, but then things happen. He latches on to a fascinating young man who is pursuing a lost relic that Professor Gray has in fact been seeking. Be careful for what you seek - you may just find it. Thus begins a journey that takes the professor and his companions on a spirited adventure across three-thousand miles of Chinese culture and mystery - a quest to fulfill a warrant long set out to ignite the world in myth and legend. The Jade Owl is the beginning of a series - a legacy that fulfills a terrible truth; and in China, they whisper again.
600 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Miriam Minger

JRTomlin said:


> Other genres have them but we're a bit of the "red-headed stepchild" of genres. We need to demand a place at the table.
> 
> Strict historical, historical time-travel, historical romance, historical mystery. What is your sub-genre?
> 
> Mine is strict historical.


Historical romance. Love writing them.

Miriam Minger


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow - January 7th and 8th at Amazon
The Academician
by 
Edward C. Patterson

Book I of the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series*

​
*"A bigger fool the world has never known than I - a coarse fellow with no business to clutch a brush and scribble. I only know the scrawl, because my master took pleasure in teaching me between my chores. Not many men are so cursed . . ." Thus begins the tale of Li K'ai-men as told by his faithful, but mischievous servant, K'u Ko-ling - a tale of 12th Century China, where state service meant a life long journey across a landscape of turmoil and bliss. A tale of sacrifice, love, war and duty - a fragile balance between rituals and passions. An epic commitment between two men to define the indefinable in their own world and time. Here begins the legacy of the Jade Owl and its custodian as he holds true to his warrants.

The Academician is the first of five books in the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series, capturing the turbulence of the Sung Dynasty in transition. Spanning the silvery days under the Emperor Hui to the disasters that followed, The Academician is a slice of world events that should never have been forgotten. Still, there are things more important than invasions and empires. The world's fate rests in the warrants of Li K'ai-men, this young scholar from Gui-lin, called master by his faithful servant, but known as Nan Ya to the world.
404 pages.

Coming this month: Book IV - The House of Green Waters (Keep a Watch Out)

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow - January 16th & 17th at Amazon*

*The Nan Tu*
*by *  
*Edward C. Patterson*

*Book II of the Southern Swallow series*

 [/url​

*"We all lived in the shadow of K'ai-feng's ashes now. No denying it. However safe we felt, the world hung by a silken thread." So begins the second book of the Southern Swallow series - The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration) and, like the first book, The Academician, it is told by K'u Ko-ling, servant to the Grand Tutor, Li K'ai-men. The Emperor Kao has proclaimed that his court and government will migrate to the south, a progress filled with adventure, intrigue, war and tragedy, thus setting a series of events in play that shaped the Middle Kingdom.

Set on the broad canvas of Sung Dynasty China, The Nan Tu is a tale of love, separation and sacrifice. Yet heroes emerge from the ashes and restoration is within their grasp. From the mountain lairs of bandits to the sweep of the fleet at sea, The Nan Tu will transport you to a world that should have never been forgotten. Still, there are more important things than empires and history. There's love and destiny - the destiny of Li K'ai-men's relics and the enlistment of his helpmates to guard over the membrane of time.
482 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## fcmalby

*FREE TUES 21 - WEDS 22: WINNER OF THE PEOPLE'S BOOK AWARDS TAKE ME TO THE CASTLE, F C MALBY*

Imagine a world where your every move is monitored, every contact scrutinised; a world where your mail arrives mysteriously opened and your movement restricted. What would you do if there was a knock at the door in the early hours of the morning and you knew that you would be faced with the secret police? Imagine being imprisoned for believing in freedom of speech, risking losing everything: your job, your family, your life.

What would you do to secure your own freedom?










http://www.amazon.com/Take-Me-Castle-F-C-Malby-ebook/dp/B00APN85QI/ref=zg_bs_156638011_f_1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Take-Me-Castle-F-C-Malby-ebook/dp/B00APN85QI

"Intriguing story, well written and gripping to the end. Recommended as the novel for the coming year."

"A great insight into what people were thinking during the turmoil of the political changes in Europe in the 70s and 80s."

"Malby masterfully draws you deeper in to their world and their lives, slowly peeling layers off to reveal a masterpiece. You find yourself building connection and empathy with every page turn."

"A wonderfully addictive book with beautiful characterisation and imagery."

"Elaborate interweaving of historical events with personal stories of the skillfully created characters."

"Malby navigates these difficult waters with ease. Brilliantly done."

"Difficult to put down at times and I keep thinking about the characters, even now! Great insight into the human condition and subtlety shown in her writing. Get it and read it!!"


----------



## Miriam Minger

Just finished You Are My Sunshine set in 1800s Montana by Stanley G. West.  Wonderful book.

Miriam Minger


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*THREE FREE Days February 3rd, 4th & 5th at Amazon

In the Shadow of Her Hem
by
Edward C. Patterson

Book V of The Jade Owl Legacy series

*​*

"China Hands! To Me!" A green fog has engulfed the Wei River Valley. The First Emperor's tomb is mysteriously rumbling. The Big Goose Pagoda is glowing like a lighthouse. And to blame? A bunch of Americans stranded in the consulate at Bei-jing, who, at the end of the last installment, came bursting through a portal in the People's History Museum. "China Hands! To Me!" With that command, Rowden Gray has summoned his forces to return to the action - to the Dragon's Pool in the shadow of Her hem, where the Jade Owl's overlord commands an army of creatures, engineering the end of the world; or at least, the world, as we know it.

In this last book of The Jade Owl Legacy, our mixed bag of adventurers face their greatest challenge. They must negotiate the perils of the People's government, the mysteries of the Palace of Broken Dreams, the dangers of the Ghost Lands and the mythic realm of the Classic of Mountains and Seas. Their odyssey delivers them to the final showdown - the Battle of the Full Moon, where all mysteries are revealed and every threat is settled. What began as a Sinologist's dream converges on everyone's nightmare. The Jade Owl calls you, but so does the muster to arms. Heed them both, but answer only one. "China Hands! To Me!"

The Jade Owl Legacy is a five book series. The first book (The Jade Owl) introduces a peculiar quest led by Professor Rowden Gray and a rag-tag team who follow a mysterious thread of instructions to thwart an ancient Chinese prophesy. Instead, they managed to set off events, igniting the crisis. Two demons, which possess a relic known as the Jade Owl, each in turn, after eons of imprisonment, test their land legs among the living. In The Third Peregrination, the Destroyer takes his turn with wrath and fire. In The Dragon's Pool, the Great Marshal takes his spin, preparing the way for a curious ritual that will restore the world to a prehistoric state. To combat these spirits, our heroes acquire extraordinary powers in an attempt to thwart destiny's course. However, destiny is not easily thwarted. In The People's Treasure, all hell breaks loose as our heroes are manipulated to serve destiny's course to fulfill the prophesy. However, In the Shadow of Her Hem, they bounce back against insurmountable odds and fight to save life from ultimate destruction. From San Francisco to New York, from Florence to China with her many faces, the Jade Owl proclaims an ancient evil that intends to triumph. This is the story of the brave hearts who rise to the challenge to tangle with the dark forces of yin. 
600 pages

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## strath

Free to download for a limited time.

SIDESHOW AT HONEY CREEK by Steven D. Malone

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A7GPG4W

The Battle of Dove Creek - January, 1865. You never heard of it, have you?

Dove Creek was a great tragedy - and it never should have happened.

1200 Kickapoo men, women, and children fleeing the 'Strum and Drang' of the American Civil War. Frantic Texas militiamen seek vengeance in their generations' long struggle against the Comanche. Frustrated Confederate troops fraught in their vain efforts to protect the edge of civilization. Families struggling for stark survival along the frontier.

Bill Burns. War weary and wounded Southern soldier returns to find he must defend the lives of his family from lawless savagery.

Pretia Burns. Orphaned and cast into the struggle against great odds to find and make a home for herself and her younger sister.

Brinson Miles. Driven by the guilt of past sins. Swept up into the storm of the American Civil War.

Patrick Dillon. Tainted by the grinding poverty and gangs in New York City. Hired gun and conspirator in the dirty secret wars of the Union Army. Charged with causing subversion and violence against the Rebels.

A clash of wills and mistaken identity along a gentle stream lost in the wilderness of West Texas.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A7GPG4W


----------



## Edward C. Patterson

*FREE Today and Tomorrow - February 17th & 18th at Amazon
The Academician
by 
Edward C. Patterson

Book I of the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series*

​
*"A bigger fool the world has never known than I - a coarse fellow with no business to clutch a brush and scribble. I only know the scrawl, because my master took pleasure in teaching me between my chores. Not many men are so cursed . . ." Thus begins the tale of Li K'ai-men as told by his faithful, but mischievous servant, K'u Ko-ling - a tale of 12th Century China, where state service meant a life long journey across a landscape of turmoil and bliss. A tale of sacrifice, love, war and duty - a fragile balance between rituals and passions. An epic commitment between two men to define the indefinable in their own world and time. Here begins the legacy of the Jade Owl and its custodian as he holds true to his warrants.

The Academician is the first of five books in the Southern Swallow (Nan Ya) series, capturing the turbulence of the Sung Dynasty in transition. Spanning the silvery days under the Emperor Hui to the disasters that followed, The Academician is a slice of world events that should never have been forgotten. Still, there are things more important than invasions and empires. The world's fate rests in the warrants of Li K'ai-men, this young scholar from Gui-lin, called master by his faithful servant, but known as Nan Ya to the world.
404 pages.

Coming this month: Book IV - The House of Green Waters (Keep a Watch Out)

Edward C. Patterson*


----------



## Gloria Oliver

*Black Jade - A Historical Cozy Mystery*


*British elites, American snobs, and a murder. Can a blind Chinese young woman and her friends ferret out the killer?*

Dallas 1930. Daiyu Wu never hungered for justice. Blind since birth she's frustrated at her parents' overprotectiveness, so when she realizes there's been a murder she keeps them in the dark. The police are unaware of the misdeed, so she feels compelled to find proof and drag the evil act into the light.

Worrying her parents will figure out what she's up to, Dai continues to dig for clues as to the victim's identity. But dread cloaks her when she's targeted by a spoiled rich girl whose actions might allow the killer to slither away scot-free.
Can Dai safely navigate the pitfalls as she unearths the name of the deceased and hunts those involved, or will she take a misstep and expose herself and her family to deadly retaliation?

Black Jade is the addictive first book in the Daiyu Wu Mysteries historical cozy series. If you like amateur sleuths, multicultural characters, and unusual detectives, then you'll love Gloria Oliver's delightful whodunit adventure.

Gloria Oliver
Unveiling the Fantastic
www.gloriaoliver.com


----------

