# Article: Amazon's Kindle Fire lets kids charge up a storm



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

This is just so much whining to me. If your kids are too young to understand that they can't just purchase things with impunity, then perhaps they are too young for an ereader/multimedia device like the Fire ....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/06/us-usa-amazon-fire-idUSTRE7B52BK20111206


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Geoffrey, I have to agree with you there. At the end of the article a couple of people make similar observations - if you can't trust someone not to make inappropriate purchases, don't give them the device. 

The one guy who complains about the 1-click ordering and says his three year old used it, whereas he couldn't take his father's credit card to the store and use that, is being ridiculous - why give a three year old a $200 device with unrestricted internet access and then leave them unsupervised in the first place? He's the child's parent, not Amazon.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

Because it is easier to blame Amazon then it is to take responsibility for not supervising your child properly. I am sure the password protection that about 10 people have been wanting is on its way.


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## sanshoku (Nov 24, 2011)

Can we disconnect wireless or keep the password?


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## davidhburton (Mar 11, 2010)

ProfCrash said:


> Because it is easier to blame Amazon then it is to take responsibility for not supervising your child properly.


THIS!!!


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

If the media in general picks up on this story, then I'm sure Amazon will do something about 1-click - like make it optional - but it is just so much pushing a parenting problem off onto an outside source.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

ProfCrash said:


> Because it is easier to blame Amazon then it is to take responsibility for not supervising your child properly. I am sure the password protection that about 10 people have been wanting is on its way.


Password protection is there already. If these silly people don't want their kids buying things, just set a password. Honestly!

L


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Some of us would just like to be able to give a "child" a READER and not feel like we need to hover while they are READING.

I'd like to be able to hand my 12yo child with special needs and vision problems the reader that allows her to actually READ and not worry that she is cruising the browser or shopping on amazon. However, amazon doesn't allow me to turn off the browser or store, and deregistering it a PITA, as is typing my wireless pw. I'd frankly just like to send it books....

Apple at least gives you some parental controls that make the devices more kid friendly/safe, and the Fire seems very un-kid friendly. I want a READER, but i can't just get a READER, I have to get a marketing tool.

But really, it's very easy to cast those parenting stones until you have to face the particular circumstances each family has.... How many of you throwing them here have kids?

Oh and there are more than 10 people that want more control.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FWIW, if the complaint is about 'in app' purchases. . .that can be turned off with the Fire. And you can set a password. And there's a free app Kids Place - With Child Lock that lets you lock it down even more.

I understand completely deciding NOT to purchase it for a child because of these issues. . . . .but I don't get blaming amazon for your lack of attentiveness. My son was 2 when he learned how to put tapes in the VCR and turn it on and watch them. We obviously kept any tapes we didn't want him to watch without supervision in a place where he couldn't get them.

But, you know, people are people. . .though the one time I heard someone complaining about too much government control and in the same breath whining that their kid had charged up virtual fruit or something on an app and why doesn't someone do something about that. . .well. . . . I actually walked away because there was no way I could remain calm and respond. 

_edited to add: my use of the word "you" is not directed at any individual specifically. It is the generic "you" that means, potentially, but not necessarily, everyone in the world that isn't me. _


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## katy32 (Dec 20, 2010)

Leslie said:


> Password protection is there already. If these silly people don't want their kids buying things, just set a password. Honestly!
> 
> L


I'm really feeling dumb but how do you set a password to protect purchases?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Are you talking about on the Fire:  Tap the gear for settings and go to 'more'.  There's a security setting.  You can lock the screen with a password. 

You can set a password to change or access stored credentials -- I admit I've not completely figured that one out yet.  When I try to 'install secure credentials' it says 'no certificate file found' so I don't know what's going on there.  

You can also somehow set device Administrators. . .again, not figured this out and there's nothing helpful in the Users' Guide.

When in the Appstore, tap the menu at the bottom and tap settings.  There are two options there to set parental Controls (so you would have to provide a password or Pin to purchase in-app items) or to disable In-App Purchasing all together.


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## JoeDiver (Dec 4, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> You can set a password to change or access stored credentials -- I admit I've not completely figured that one out yet. When I try to 'install secure credentials' it says 'no certificate file found' so I don't know what's going on there.


That's an Android feature. Some WiFi, most VPN and VLAN connections require certificates for authentication. You set that up on the KF with the Credentials...load up your certificate file(s) and setup authentication....then the KF will be able to access secured sites, typically corporate wifi and far less frequently home setups from people super paranoid, or just computer geeks in general who like to mess with that stuff.

Currently Amazon is not supporting Enterprise Security, but since the Credential Management is there, presumably it will at some point. Also, if there are apps for FTP, Telnet, Terminal Emulators that can connect to servers, you'll make use of the Credentials to setup access authentication.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

hmm.. it's not allowing comments... I guess it's to old of an article. (Dec 6 is old I guess) I tried to post a response 5 hours ago, and got the message that it was accepted.. but..


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## Seamonkey (Dec 2, 2008)

Well remember, it seems people need to be told not to take a suppository by mouth and even to remove the foil covering prior to "insertion".  And those people are, presumably, adults.


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## katy32 (Dec 20, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Are you talking about on the Fire: Tap the gear for settings and go to 'more'. There's a security setting. You can lock the screen with a password.
> 
> You can set a password to change or access stored credentials -- I admit I've not completely figured that one out yet. When I try to 'install secure credentials' it says 'no certificate file found' so I don't know what's going on there.
> 
> ...


I did that, but I was hoping there was a way to password protect purchases for the fire. I hate the one click option


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## kindlegrl81 (Jan 19, 2010)

I disabled in-app purchases for this exact issue.  Some of those games are confusing about what costs real money and what costs fake money and I'm an adult.  It's a pretty safe bet my daughter wouldn't realize what she was doing until after it is too late.

I am not worried about my daughter with the regular eink kindles but with the Fire I really wish Amazon would listen and give us some parental control options.


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## fuschiahedgehog (Feb 23, 2010)

Geoffrey said:


> This is just so much whining to me. If your kids are too young to understand that they can't just purchase things with impunity, then perhaps they are too young for an ereader/multimedia device like the Fire ....
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/06/us-usa-amazon-fire-idUSTRE7B52BK20111206


I don't think it's whining to want more granular controls over a device and its associated account given to a child. Amazon is more than capable of giving us controls; why they don't is beyond me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think there are two separate but related issues here. I agree completely that it would be nice if Amazon allowed one to password purchases as is done on the iPad. Having said that, since that is not currently an option on the Fire, I would not hand it over to anyone (child or adult) that I was not confident would not buy something without my permission. The 10 year old grandboy knows not to click on anything that says "buy" without asking me. However, if he did, accidentally or otherwise, I wouldn't blame Amazon for it as I know it's not passworded and I am the one that lets him play with it. My responsibility. I wouldn't give him my credit card and tell him to go play on the Internet, either. *shudder* I think that's all earlier posters are saying.

But again, I think it is a feature that should be enabled. Just from a marketing standpoint, it makes it that much more attractive to people who want to get them for small children.

Betsy


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

Betsy - that is how it is here, in it's current form the Fire is not an option for a kids device with its current lack of controls. While i overall trust my kids, it's my headache to deal with should they ignore it - and i choose to not go there.

And, amazon is missing the marketing part of this - sure they want to make it all easy to shop, BUT, you will gain more by offering the options if the parents want them enabled. Make it easy for me to lock it down and still use your content and I will consider it.

hopefully this update coming adds some in this area!


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## fuschiahedgehog (Feb 23, 2010)

TraceyC/FL said:


> Betsy - that is how it is here, in it's current form the Fire is not an option for a kids device with its current lack of controls. While i overall trust my kids, it's my headache to deal with should they ignore it - and i choose to not go there.
> 
> And, amazon is missing the marketing part of this - sure they want to make it all easy to shop, BUT, you will gain more by offering the options if the parents want them enabled. Make it easy for me to lock it down and still use your content and I will consider it.
> 
> hopefully this update coming adds some in this area!


Right there with ya!


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## Hadou (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeesh.  While I think it's still ultimately the parents' responsibility, it'd be nice if there were some options for purchase control.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think we're all pretty much in agreement on that one.  Let's hope the new update solves the problem!  

Betsy


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

My 5 year old niece, who loves her dad's iPad, bought several Apps from the Apple Store.  Fortunately they were only about $2.99 each.  However, my sister did not blame Apple.  There is such a thing as personal responsibility and parental responsibility.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think we're all agreed...basically.    let us hope the soon-to-be released Fire upgrade has something for all of us from Santa.


Betsy


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2011)

TraceyC/FL said:


> Betsy - that is how it is here, in it's current form the Fire is not an option for a kids device with its current lack of controls. While i overall trust my kids, it's my headache to deal with should they ignore it - and i choose to not go there.
> 
> And, amazon is missing the marketing part of this - sure they want to make it all easy to shop, BUT, you will gain more by offering the options if the parents want them enabled. Make it easy for me to lock it down and still use your content and I will consider it.
> 
> hopefully this update coming adds some in this area!


Tracey, I think there are a lot of options for parents who want to be able to give the Fire to their kids. This app can make it so that you have complete control over what they can access. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061S073A/

There are a lot of people who complain about a lack of parental controls, but they don't take advantage of what's available to rectify the situation.


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## TraceyC/FL (Mar 23, 2011)

foreverjuly said:


> Tracey, I think there are a lot of options for parents who want to be able to give the Fire to their kids. This app can make it so that you have complete control over what they can access. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061S073A/
> 
> There are a lot of people who complain about a lack of parental controls, but they don't take advantage of what's available to rectify the situation.


I think that app is a start, but some of it would be better suited to be addressed at the OS level.

This review however appears to render the app about useless for full time use....


> The application does a good job locking down specific apps for kids, but unfortunately if the device is turned off and on it is bypassed, you have to actually load the Kid's Place app for it to be active and restrict the Android device to specific apps. This is great if you own an Android device like a Kindle Fire and pass it to your young kid to play with for an hour without worry, but if you bought your kids a Kindle Fire it is too easy to just turn device off and on and bypass the app altogether.


As an example, Apple includes the following restrictions in iOS, and I have been vocal there should be more (time limits, wifi limits/on-off switch for starters).
_Allow: Safari, YouTube, Camera, FaceTime, iTunes, Ping, Installing Apps, Deleting Apps
Allow Changes: Location, accounts (for email and such), find my friends
Allowed Content: ratings for (country), music & podcasts, movies, tv shows, apps, in-app purchase (on or off), time for required password (for purchases)
Game Center: multiplayer games, adding friends_

If I install Mobicip Browser, and turn off Safari, all traffic is supposed to route to Mobicip and their filters I have chosen.

Another biggie is the ratings on movies, music and tv shows. I've heard no mention of that - so if i had prime would my 7yo be able to watch r rated movies and M rated tv shows?

I understand it runs counter to the android philosophy, and most people think it goes overboard as it is, but choice is good. There is nothing wrong with building an ecosystem that grows with the user as they mature. Quite frankly I think ALL manufactures are lacking in this niche. Apparently they aren't totally thinking thru "hook 'em while they are young"!


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Special needs kids are the exception, but if your child is charging up a storm without permission, your biggest grievance shouldn't be with Amazon. Before the Fire, parents were concerned about kids buying the wrong books or any books, without asking, but it seemed to me that the emailed notice would fix that -- and tell you where your kid is at mentally, what might be going on in his or her life.  I never understood -- and I acknowledge, often with tears, sometimes with relief, that I'm childless -- why a parent would wish to cut off that information source about where their kid's head is at.


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## fuschiahedgehog (Feb 23, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> Special needs kids are the exception, but if your child is charging up a storm without permission, your biggest grievance shouldn't be with Amazon. Before the Fire, parents were concerned about kids buying the wrong books or any books, without asking, but it seemed to me that the emailed notice would fix that -- and tell you where your kid is at mentally, what might be going on in his or her life. I never understood -- and I acknowledge, often with tears, sometimes with relief, that I'm childless -- why a parent would wish to cut off that information source about where their kid's head is at.


The emailed notice is after the fact. There are books available on Kindle that cost $100 or more; in addition it's not all that difficult to accidentally purchase a book. I've done it myself; friends of mine have also done it while checking out my Kindle and going click-happy. And yes, there are some books I don't want my children to read. I don't understand the backlash against parents who want more control over the devices or the Amazon accounts (and CREDIT CARDS) those devices are tied to. I thought I was being a responsible parent... guess I was wrong.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I have to say I see nothing mutually exclusive between believing that Amazon could provide purchasing controls for those who want them and being a responsible parent.

Just sayin'.....

Betsy


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## geko29 (Dec 23, 2008)

There should unequivocally be an option to require a password for all purchases.  I can't count the number of times my 4-year-old has accidentally hit a button inside a game he was playing on an iphone/ipad (with my explicit permission) that prompted for my iTunes ID to make a purchase or sign into GameCenter.  Thankfully, Apple DOES ask for your password, so I could simply hit "cancel" when he asked me what was wrong with his game.

This could also be an issue if you wanted to let someone noodle around on your fire to see if they like it.  Prompting for a password can help avoid these "oops" moments, or even some of your own.  If you don't want to be prompted, that's fine--you shouldn't have to be.  But that doesn't mean the option shouldn't exist.  You can quite easily disable 1-click on Amazon's website, which I did within minutes of the feature being introduced.  The Fire should be no different.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

fuschiahedgehog said:


> The emailed notice is after the fact. There are books available on Kindle that cost $100 or more; in addition it's not all that difficult to accidentally purchase a book. I've done it myself; friends of mine have also done it while checking out my Kindle and going click-happy. And yes, there are some books I don't want my children to read. I don't understand the backlash against parents who want more control over the devices or the Amazon accounts (and CREDIT CARDS) those devices are tied to. I thought I was being a responsible parent... guess I was wrong.


I'm aware of when the emails arrive. Books are returnable within 7 days. My comment is backlash ... really?

Some of this is just a different philosophy. I was raised with the freedom to read and explore, and that's how I see books. I don't see them as things to keep away from children, and I see a child's choices as speaking to a need they have or a way to know where a child is, developmentally. There were historical romances all over my house. You know when I started caring about them, and stopped the 20th reread of Eight Cousins (Alcott)? Puberty. Your kid suddenly is interested in more explicit choices, time for a talk. You can read your emails and know, or you can sit across from your kid at dinner, ask him or her what's going on with school, their friends, they life, and receive generic answers.

Books are a resource, a place for answers. If you know the answers they seek, you know what questions are on their minds.

That being said, I've never stated parents shouldn't have more available controls. If they simply would like to try to control when they explore different topics, that's their prerogative, and they're clearly doing what they feel is best. I think Amazon is lacking foresight in even having this need to be a discussion. The options should be there.


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## fuschiahedgehog (Feb 23, 2010)

MichelleR said:


> I'm aware of when the emails arrive. Books are returnable within 7 days. My comment is backlash ... really?
> 
> Some of this is just a different philosophy. I was raised with the freedom to read and explore, and that's how I see books. I don't see them as things to keep away from children, and I see a child's choices as speaking to a need they have or a way to know where a child is, developmentally. There were historical romances all over my house. You know when I started caring about them, and stopped the 20th reread of Eight Cousins (Alcott)? Puberty. Your kid suddenly is interested in more explicit choices, time for a talk. You can read your emails and know, or you can sit across from your kid at dinner, ask him or her what's going on with school, their friends, they life, and receive generic answers.
> 
> ...


I always love when childless people offer me parenting advice. Thanks for the chuckles!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I realize, from past discussions, that this is a topic that many of our members feel very strongly about.  But let's keep it calm and avoid colorful and negative characterizations of people's' parenting philosophies.  I'd hate to have to lock the thread.

Thanks,

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

fuschiahedgehog said:


> I always love when childless people offer me parenting advice. Thanks for the chuckles!


Where did I offer you parenting advice? I pretty much supported you and the people who said there should be more controls for the people who want them, and shared how I look at the topic. However, if my inability to have children amuses you, particularly in this holiday season, enjoy.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

OK, we're done here.  Thanks to everyone for their comments.  Let's see what the new update offers.

Peace and good will to all.

Betsy
KB Moderator


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