# Historical fiction?



## opuscroakus

Is there a historical fiction book club somewhere that I'm missing?


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## MonkeyScribe

I'm bumping this because I have the same question. My favorite historical writer is Alan Furst, and I'd love to find more writers with that level of plot, character, and historical detail.


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## Cindy416

I, too, would love to see one, as I love historical fiction.


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## opuscroakus

Cindy416 said:


> I, too, would love to see one, as I love historical fiction.


So how do we start one?


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## Cindy416

opuscroakus said:


> So how do we start one?


I don't know for sure. I guess we'd have to see who the moderators are in the book club areas. I am really pressed for time, but if you want to look around, that's where I'd start.


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## opuscroakus

Cindy416 said:


> I don't know for sure. I guess we'd have to see who the moderators are in the book club areas. I am really pressed for time, but if you want to look around, that's where I'd start.


I started one on Goodreads for writing historicals, so yeah, I don't mind doing that here.


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## Jimbo72

Count me in on this one also!


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## LibbyD

I hope we can start a group.  

Opuscroakus, have you contacted Betsy?  I don't know what's involved, but if there is work of any sort to be done I'd be glad to help.


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## Ruth Harris

@ Michael, huge 2nd for Alan Furst.  He nails that period.  I haven't read Eric Ambler lately but I recall loving those books...A Coffin for Demetrios & Journey Into Fear stand out.

I love books that use a 20th Century background--have done so in my own fiction...Decades is set in the 40's-50's-60's...from the post-war returning GI's to the Make Love Not War Gen.  Husbands and Lovers & Love And Money are set in the 70's-80's.


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## Elise Logan

What kind of historical fiction? I mean, historical crosses several genres. There are great historical mysteries, historical epics, historical romance, fictionalized bio pieces, all kinds of things. Is this meant to be inclusive? 

I've just started Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver, which is heavily historical, so I might be interested in whatever is going on in an historical book klub option. Might give me new options!

E


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## opuscroakus

Elise Logan said:


> What kind of historical fiction? I mean, historical crosses several genres. There are great historical mysteries, historical epics, historical romance, fictionalized bio pieces, all kinds of things. Is this meant to be inclusive?
> 
> I've just started Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver, which is heavily historical, so I might be interested in whatever is going on in an historical book klub option. Might give me new options!
> 
> E


I'd like it to be a place where readers interested in any historical genre can discuss and recommend books, as well as a place where authors who write historical fiction can share research links, tips for writing in historical voice and whatever other tools are pertinent to those of us who write it.


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## LibbyD

opuscroakus said:


> I'd like it to be a place where readers interested in any historical genre can discuss and recommend books, as well as a place where authors who write historical fiction can share research links, tips for writing in historical voice and whatever other tools are pertinent to those of us who write it.


That sounds like two places to me - one, where readers discuss and recommend, and the other where writers talk to each other about their craft. I would be interested in the first, but not the second.


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## opuscroakus

LibbyD said:


> That sounds like two places to me - one, where readers discuss and recommend, and the other where writers talk to each other about their craft. I would be interested in the first, but not the second.


Not necessarily. Within any group there are various threads. If your group is about Edwardian Fashions in New England America, there are going to be those threads that discuss only the men's fashions, and those interested only in the women's.

I'm envisioning it like that. Historical Fiction can be the global group, but if one only wants to participate in the threads pertaining to reading recommendations and particular books, then no one must also participate in the threads about the various aspects of writing.

And it just may happen to someone else like it happened to me: It wasn't until I discovered Jane Austen and that hunger that developed for telling my own victorian stories, that I then began to write.

The critique group I belonged to for over ten years was about fiction in general, but if there were those of us who just didn't like fantasy, then we didn't particpate in those threads. I think this board is quite large enough to accomodate all.


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## LibbyD

opuscroakus said:


> Not necessarily. Within any group there are various threads. If your group is about Edwardian Fashions in New England America, there are going to be those threads that discuss only the men's fashions, and those interested only in the women's.
> 
> I'm envisioning it like that. Historical Fiction can be the global group, but if one only wants to participate in the threads pertaining to reading recommendations and particular books, then no one must also participate in the threads about the various aspects of writing.
> 
> And it just may happen to someone else like it happened to me: It wasn't until I discovered Jane Austen and that hunger that developed for telling my own victorian stories, that I then began to write.
> 
> The critique group I belonged to for over ten years was about fiction in general, but if there were those of us who just didn't like fantasy, then we didn't particpate in those threads. I think this board is quite large enough to accomodate all.


Thanks for the explanation. Now I see what you have in mind.


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## opuscroakus

LibbyD said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Now I see what you have in mind.


NP. I may call myself a writer, but it seems I have one helluva time trying to express myself most of the time so as to be understood.


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## D.R. Erickson

I'd love to see this too! There's nothing I love more than a big fat historical epic. They're getting hard to find, though.


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## LibbyD

Is this idea going to fly or not?


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## opuscroakus

LibbyD said:


> Is this idea going to fly or not?


I'm sorry I've not had enough free time to look into it. But if you're that antsy for it, go for it.


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## LibbyD

opuscroakus said:


> I'm sorry I've not had enough free time to look into it. But if you're that antsy for it, go for it.


I'm not "antsy for it". I just asked a question. It's your baby -- proceed at your own pace.


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## geoffthomas

I am in agreement with your general aims.
Love Historical novels.  Mary Renault to our own Jeff Hepple.
I am going to take the initiative to dialogue with Harvey and ask him for a folder here in the Book Klubs area for such a thing.
I have started threads for discussion of specific books, but they die out when no-one finds them for a while.  This is a better idea especially now that we have more authors here in the forum.  I suggest a high-level folder for Historical fiction.  Would you like to have subfolders for Historical Romance, etc.  or divided by book discussion, author participation, etc.  I think the first idea of one folder with subfolders for genre within would be best

I will ask Harvey for the initial area and wait for your remarks.
Oh, by the way, once setup I will participate but would love for someone to "lead" it, please.


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## opuscroakus

geoffthomas said:


> I have started threads for discussion of specific books, but they die out when no-one finds them for a while. This is a better idea especially now that we have more authors here in the forum. I suggest a high-level folder for Historical fiction. Would you like to have subfolders for Historical Romance, etc. or divided by book discussion, author participation, etc. I think the first idea of one folder with subfolders for genre within would be best


I think with enough interest either way would work equally well. Now that I think about it, it might be a good idea to separate the romance--whatever type of book would be published and marketed through a specific imprint division; like Blush (is that the Harlequin division now?). I know technically those romance books where the ONLY goal is to incite specific feelings within the reader that are set in a historical time period are historicals, but if a publisher feels they deserve a specific imprint division, then let's also give them segregation, as you suggest.

The rest--WWII vs. Asian BC, for example, I dunno--I sort of see that sorting itself out in the various specific dedicated threads, but that's just me. If anyone else has ideas about that, kindly share. Since history is anything before 1986, that constitutes a lot of ground and would drive someone batsh*t crazy if they were to attempt to account for every conceivable category. And what of the books that cross periods AND cultures? Part of the beauty of this genre is that there *are* potentially so many cross-pollinations; I guess I suggest that keeping them together in the same sub-folder will be okay. It's hard planning for each contingency.

And if we also keep the writing within the same sub-folder but to within their own threads, I think that might make it easier for others to wander over and take part.

These are just my thoughts.

Re: leading, I'm sure someone will rise to the fore and take an active role. Whilst I love the genre, I just don't think I know enough about it to "lead," but of course will do so if no one else can. I don't want to see this idea die.


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## SEAN H. ROBERTSON

Let me know when this Historical Fiction group comes about...would love to be apart of it.


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## Gertie Kindle

I'm not so sure you need a specific leader for this kind of group. I led the Outlander club but that was dedicated to one specific series of books. 

I think that anyone should be allowed to start a thread with a specific book to be discussed. If there is enough interest for that book, then the OP can lead that discussion.


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## ChristopherDavidPetersen

I've been reading about a new book that will be released shortly from Bob Mayer about the Civil War, titled: "Duty, Honor, Country". It looks fantastic. He's released snippets of it ahead of the release date, which will be the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War. Just curious...  Has anyone else read any of his work? I love history and this book covers one of my favorite eras in American history, but I've never read anything from him, so I'd like to get some opinions before I make "the big plunge" and buy his book.


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## Gertie Kindle

ChristopherDavidPetersen said:


> I've been reading about a new book that will be released shortly from Bob Mayer about the Civil War, titled: "Duty, Honor, Country". It looks fantastic. He's released snippets of it ahead of the release date, which will be the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War. Just curious... Has anyone else read any of his work? I love history and this book covers one of my favorite eras in American history, but I've never read anything from him, so I'd like to get some opinions before I make "the big plunge" and buy his book.


I've never read Bob Mayer, but I have read Jeff Hepple's work and I can vouch for his historical accuracy. His civil war book (Antebellum) will be released shortly. He started with Gone for a Soldier (Revolutionary War) and continued with Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Jeff also used his own rich family history in his books. As an example, but I don't know which book he'll include it in:

Dubbed the "biggest Yankee in the world," David Van Buskirk held the distinction of being the tallest Union soldier to serve during the Civil War. From Gosport, Indiana, David was the eldest of ten children and was said to measure 6' 10-1/2" tall in his stocking feet. He weighed 380 pounds. At a time when Lincoln, standing at 6' 4", was considered unusually tall, David was considered a giant. Even more unique than David's stature was the company he became a member of. The Monroe County Grenadiers was composed of 105 men, all of whom were 6 feet tall and over. They would make up Company F of the 27th Indiana Infantry, commanded by Colonel Silas Colgrove. David Van Buskirk would be elected as 2nd Lieutenant. In March of 1862, the 27th Indiana would be reorganized into the 3rd Brigade, 1st Division, of Banks's V Corps.

I'm sure others will be able to tell you about Bob. Most likely both will be good and you'll ending up getting neither of them because you won't be able to choose.


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## opuscroakus

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> I'm not so sure you need a specific leader for this kind of group. I led the Outlander club but that was dedicated to one specific series of books.
> 
> I think that anyone should be allowed to start a thread with a specific book to be discussed. If there is enough interest for that book, then the OP can lead that discussion.


Well, to be fair, I didn't envision just one person as a leader. Of course it will take one person going to the moderators and seeking permission, but after that, it's the type of platform that will belong to all involved and choose to participate.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Hey, y'all!

I'm reading through the thread to see what it is you envision.  Are you thinking of individual threads for individual books?  And, just curious, is there a reason people who want to discuss a particular book, not have a guided discussion, aren't doing it in the Book Corner?

What I'm reading here is a little different from the Book Klubs we've had in the past.

Betsy


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## Gertie Kindle

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Hey, y'all!
> 
> I'm reading through the thread to see what it is you envision. Are you thinking of individual threads for individual books? And, just curious, is there a reason people who want to discuss a particular book, not have a guided discussion, aren't doing it in the Book Corner?
> 
> What I'm reading here is a little different from the Book Klubs we've had in the past.
> 
> Betsy


I think they're looking for someone to start a thread on any book, but then the OP is the leader and guides the discussion. Threads can get lost in the Book Corner and they want this one to be strictly historical fiction.

I may be wrong, but that's what it sounds like to me.


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## opuscroakus

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Hey, y'all!
> 
> I'm reading through the thread to see what it is you envision. Are you thinking of individual threads for individual books? And, just curious, is there a reason people who want to discuss a particular book, not have a guided discussion, aren't doing it in the Book Corner?
> 
> What I'm reading here is a little different from the Book Klubs we've had in the past.
> 
> Betsy


As has already been stated, we want something all-inclusive for historical fiction. NOT for one particular book. Which is obviously why we're not doing it in the Book Corner. It's not that kind of book club.

And apparently folks, it would bother some members of the establishment if I were to lead, so I'm out. I wasn't envisioning a single leader anyway, but that was just offensive as I've done nothing wrong.


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## Betsy the Quilter

But you would have threads for individual books, right?  Going back to re-read this thread....

Betsy


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## Gertie Kindle

opuscroakus said:


> As has already been stated, we want something all-inclusive for historical fiction. NOT for one particular book. Which is obviously why we're not doing it in the Book Corner. It's not that kind of book club.
> 
> And apparently folks, it would bother some members of the establishment if I were to lead, so I'm out. I wasn't envisioning a single leader anyway, but that was just offensive as I've done nothing wrong.


I hope you didn't misunderstand me and I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this club. I'll drop out now.


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## opuscroakus

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> I hope you didn't misunderstand me and I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this club. I'll drop out now.


I'm just not seeing how the words "ALL-INCLUSIVE" are being so vague and misunderstood by so many.

Yes, there should be threads for particular books, IF that's what some of the club members would like to do. We just don't want a SINGLE CLUB for a particular book like we have now. We wanted a place where we can discuss ANY historical fiction book, AS LONG AS we could also discuss writing techniques specific to historical fiction, the genre in general, since there are many varying styles of writing it. If we wanted to discuss nothing but period clothing and bustles, then that's what we'd like to discuss--something specific to historical fiction.

In essence, we'd like a Historical Fiction GROUP, rather than a BOOK DISCUSSION CLUB, as you only have now.

I didn't misunderstand you. You were fine.


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## geoffthomas

Folks,
Earlier in this thread I posted: I suggest a high-level folder for Historical fiction. Would you like to have subfolders for Historical Romance, etc. or divided by book discussion, author participation, etc. I think the first idea of one folder with subfolders for genre within would be best?
And I said that I would message Harvey and Betsy about the desire. So I did: We have enough authors who write in that area to contribute to discussion. It could have subfolders for genre such as Historical Romance, Historical factual, Historical Novel, etc.
I think this is a good idea. And I would like very much to participate, if it happens.
And I think the opportunity for many authors of historical novels to participate would make it a wonderful thread.
So.....
Betsy, I think the idea was for a permanent folder that would be always on page 1 of the Book Corner. With perhaps some subfolders for type, like I had suggested. And then we could carry on "conversations" about a book or a theme as seems useful. It would not require a leader even. But clearly if we were to discuss a specific book, it would be neat if the author were to lead that discussion.

Just sayin.....


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## Amy Corwin

I would love this and could we also have "Historical Mysteries"?
I'm currently addicted to this genre and finding new ones would be fabulous. (I'm reading an ancient roman mystery right now:Medicus.)


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## Betsy the Quilter

Folks,

We've discussed the idea of a "Historical Fiction Group" and we feel that together, the Book Corner and the Writers' Cafe already fill the needs discussed here.  

If anyone would like to have a discussion of historical fiction, you are welcome and encouraged to start a thread about it in the Book Corner.  In addition, book threads about specific authors and books are encouraged in the Book Corner.  After all, discussion of books is the reason that the Book Corner was set up.  

Threads about Alan Furst, or Eric Ambler, or specific eras or types of historical fiction would be great additions to the Book Corner and I think would be greatly appreciated by the membership at large.  We've been told time and time again by members that the mix of genres discussed in the Book Corner have exposed them to things they would never have read otherwise.  We already have a few genre threads and they stay fairly active.

If our author-members would like to discuss the craft of writing Historical Fiction, that's what the Writers' Cafe is for.  By all means start a thread or threads about it there where your fellow authors (and other members) can join in.

Finally, our experience has been that active threads stay near the top of their respective forum.  If you want to be sure to keep up with a thread, you can click on "Notify" and you will get an email every time there is a new post.  You can also bookmark an individual thread so that you can find it wherever it is in the Book Corner or Cafe.  I recommend this; I have several specific threads I follow and it's what I do.

If anyone wants to start a formal Klub about a particular book and act as facilitator for that Klub, please contact me.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Thanks!

Betsy


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## opuscroakus

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Folks,
> 
> We've discussed the idea of a "Historical Fiction Group" and we feel that together, the Book Corner and the Writers' Cafe already fill the needs discussed here.
> 
> If anyone would like to have a discussion of historical fiction, you are welcome and encouraged to start a thread about it in the Book Corner. In addition, book threads about specific authors and books are encouraged in the Book Corner. After all, discussion of books is the reason that the Book Corner was set up.
> 
> Threads about Alan Furst, or Eric Ambler, or specific eras or types of historical fiction would be great additions to the Book Corner and I think would be greatly appreciated by the membership at large. We've been told time and time again by members that the mix of genres discussed in the Book Corner have exposed them to things they would never have read otherwise. We already have a few genre threads and they stay fairly active.
> 
> If our author-members would like to discuss the craft of writing Historical Fiction, that's what the Writers' Cafe is for. By all means start a thread or threads about it there where your fellow authors (and other members) can join in.
> 
> Finally, our experience has been that active threads stay near the top of their respective forum. If you want to be sure to keep up with a thread, you can click on "Notify" and you will get an email every time there is a new post. You can also bookmark an individual thread so that you can find it wherever it is in the Book Corner or Cafe. I recommend this; I have several specific threads I follow and it's what I do.
> 
> If anyone wants to start a formal Klub about a particular book and act as facilitator for that Klub, please contact me.
> 
> If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Betsy


Why am I not surprised?

OBVIOUSLY, those who have posted their desires here, didn't feel that your current set-up was working.

But thanks SO much for listening. Glad to know how we're regarded.


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## SheilaLouise

Betsie, I have to say that your decision is disappointing.  I was excited about the plan 'opuscroakus' outlined.  I think the format she envisioned would have provided the freedom and flexibility that's required for a multi-faceted subject.  

That having been said, when I joined KB I agreed to follow the rules so I'll try initiating a discussion or two in the Book Corner and see how that goes.

Respectfully,

Sheila


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## geoffthomas

All this being said, I must admit that I am dissappointed.
The SciFi group went to GoodReads to have a general book club and discussion "group" there because it is difficult to hold one here.
They choose one SciFi and one Fantasy book each month - vote on it.
They they read them and come back and discuss. 
Some months are more active than others.
But they can always find it - because they have a link to it and can see the most recent posts.
It is hard to do that with generalized threads here.

I am sorry that Harvey and the mods have decided that this is not useful.
Would have helped to increase the activity here even more than now occurs.
Maybe this is part of the reason that we have less activity from readers and more from authors.

Just sayin......


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## pidgeon92

Good grief. Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill. Start a thread, and if it is popular, we will sticky it, or consider the idea of a club further.


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## Betsy the Quilter

I'll point out that there are already several ongoing threads about genres, authors, and books that keep going just fine in the Book Corner. The Unofficial Book Game thread kept going long enough that it finally became a Book Klub. And if the Accessories people can keep the purse thread going for months, people invested in a particular genre ought be be able to keep a thread or threads going.

I've said it before about the Book Corner and I'll say it again: if you don't see the thread you want to read there, start one. I've invited people to start threads in the Book Corner about the topics mentioned here...y'all could already be discussing the books/genre you want to read if you would only start the threads.

Betsy


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## opuscroakus

geoffthomas said:


> All this being said, I must admit that I am dissappointed.
> But they can always find it - because they have a link to it and can see the most recent posts.
> It is hard to do that with generalized threads here.
> 
> I am sorry that Harvey and the mods have decided that this is not useful.
> Would have helped to increase the activity here even more than now occurs.
> Maybe this is part of the reason that we have less activity from readers and more from authors.


Exactly.

And in addition, I know that MANY of the authors here find the boards overly-restrictive and less-than-intuitive, no matter how easy the KB moderators "say" they're easy to use.

The current set-up does NOT invite equal participation from both authors and readers. You either have readers that don't write discussing books (usually published by one of the Big 6 and not KDP), or you have authors too busy to read the books being discussed talking about writing technique. One serves as nothing but exclusivity to the other. As I already explained, it was that very environment in which BOTH were encouraged to participate that drew me into writing.

But, I have a very strong feeling we're just talking to the wind. With the unintuitive way this place is operated, I now have a huge bad taste in my mouth in addition.

But, the fact is, KB and the moderators have absolutely NO reason to want to keep its authors pleased. After all, they're not making a dime off our sales...Amazon is. So why would they have any incentive to help? I mean, dear God. Creating another board would be heinous, as it would...hmmmn. What exactly would be the downside? Not enough server space? No, that isn't it. More moderation time needed? No, not it, either.

I KNOW. It would generate sales for everyone involved. Well then, by all means, let's squash THAT idea before it gets started. Or, maybe we should ask Joe Konrath to make the request. Everyone at KB seems to think the sun shines out his arse. Maybe that should've been our approach.


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## opuscroakus

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I've said it before about the Book Corner and I'll say it again: if you don't see the thread you want to read there, start one. I've invited people to start threads in the Book Corner about the topics mentioned here...y'all could already be discussing the books/genre you want to read if you would only start the threads.
> 
> Betsy


And *I* will say it again: The name says it all. BOOK Corner. NOT a historical fiction discussion corner. You're just not getting it. How in hell are newcomers seeking out general discussions about Historical Fiction supposed to find a thread buried in sub-folders of a high-level folder that has absolutely NOTHING to do with historical fiction in its name? Do you expect them to simply inuit where the discussions take place? You may think that the moderators have logically thought this through, but they haven't. They have NOT taken all contingencies into account. But like to pretend they have.

Oh. And kindly tell me how THIS description of the book corner is in any way inviting to discussions of genre groups, period?

"Reader discussions - share your book reviews and recommendations, and new discoveries."

It isn't. And anyone coming here for the first time will NOT be able to simply discern that historical fiction discussion groups take place here. Why? *BECAUSE YOUR DESCRIPTION CENTRES AROUND BOOK REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDATIONS. * That is NOT the only thing we wanted to be about.

Sheesh. Why is this so hard to understand?


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## SheilaLouise

Well, I said I was going to start a thread so I'll do it now.  (One whack upside the head is sufficient.)


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## telracs

opuscroakus said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And in addition, I know that MANY of the authors here find the boards overly-restrictive and less-than-intuitive, no matter how easy the KB moderators "say" they're easy to use.
> 
> The current set-up does NOT invite equal participation from both authors and readers. You either have readers that don't write discussing books (usually published by one of the Big 6 and not KDP), or you have authors too busy to read the books being discussed talking about writing technique. One serves as nothing but exclusivity to the other. As I already explained, it was that very environment in which BOTH were encouraged to participate that drew me into writing.
> 
> But, I have a very strong feeling we're just talking to the wind. With the unintuitive way this place is operated, I now have a huge bad taste in my mouth in addition.
> 
> But, the fact is, KB and the moderators have absolutely NO reason to want to keep its authors pleased. After all, they're not making a dime off our sales...Amazon is. So why would they have any incentive to help? I mean, dear God. Creating another board would be heinous, as it would...hmmmn. What exactly would be the downside? Not enough server space? No, that isn't it. More moderation time needed? No, not it, either.
> 
> I KNOW. It would generate sales for everyone involved. Well then, by all means, let's squash THAT idea before it gets started. Or, maybe we should ask Joe Konrath to make the request. Everyone at KB seems to think the sun shines out his arse. Maybe that should've been our approach.


Opus, you lost me with your last paragraph. If you want to post in order to sell books, that's for the bazaar. If you want to post about books so people talk about them, that's the book corner. If you want to post about writing books, that's the writers' cafe.

I come to the KB to talk to other kindle owners. I like hearing what other people are reading, hearing people's opinions of books which is why I look in the book corner. I don't want to be sold to, so I avoid the bazaar. I skim the writers' cafe because sometimes it's fun, but most of the time, it's not worth my time.


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## opuscroakus

scarlet said:


> Opus, you lost me with your last paragraph. If you want to post in order to sell books, that's for the bazaar. If you want to post about books so people talk about them, that's the book corner. If you want to post about writing books, that's the writers' cafe.
> 
> I come to the KB to talk to other kindle owners. I like hearing what other people are reading, hearing people's opinions of books which is why I look in the book corner.


Exactly my point. NO ONE who hasn't participated in THIS thread, is naturally going to be able to intuit that anyone is having a general discussion of historical fiction. Because that's not what that place is for. It's for discussing BOOKS about historical fiction.



> I don't want to be sold to, so I avoid the bazaar. I skim the writers' cafe because sometimes it's fun, but most of the time, it's not worth my time.


Then you're missing the poing of this place, period. For the most part, readers who interact with authors buy more books. I've made fewer sales from my self-promotion threads that I'm only allowed to post to once every seven days (RIDICULOUS NOTION, btw), than I do when I'm actually interacting in real discussions with the readers. Maybe it doesn't work that way for you, but the majority of authors who post here have reported the same phenomenon.


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## The Hooded Claw

The site is run by Harvey and the moderators, they have an incentive to please the crowd, and part of the way they please the crowd is by having a vision and a consistent idea for how the Board will operate, and I presume they are trying to stick to that vision. They may be wrong that this is the way to draw/attract a crowd and make the site popular. But they are running the place, so they have the right to make the decision.

I know from personal experience that it is tough to run a place and please everyone. Yelling at the moderators is unlikely to get you what you want. Why not start a thread, participate and make it an awesome thread, so that they see the wisdom of your idea and make a separate subforum or sticky thread or somesuch?

General life advice: _Yelling at the people who have the power to give or deny you what you want is very seldom a good way to get what you want._


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## pidgeon92

opuscroakus said:


> Or, maybe we should ask Joe Konrath to make the request. Everyone at KB seems to think the sun shines out his arse.


If he could send some to Chicago, that would be _awesome_.

As to the rest of your rant, if you can build a thread that is sustaining - that doesn't dissolve into several authors making nothing more than a sales pitch - I will guarantee it gets a prime position within 45 days. But if it fizzles, then it fizzles.


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## telracs

opuscroakus said:


> Exactly my point. NO ONE who hasn't participated in THIS thread, is naturally going to be able to intuit that anyone is having a general discussion of historical fiction. Because that's not what that place is for. It's for discussing BOOKS about historical fiction.
> 
> Then you're missing the poing of this place, period. For the most part, readers who interact with authors buy more books. I've made fewer sales from my self-promotion threads that I'm only allowed to post to once every seven days (RIDICULOUS NOTION, btw), than I do when I'm actually interacting in real discussions with the readers. Maybe it doesn't work that way for you, but the majority of authors who post here have reported the same phenomenon.


Yes, I want to interact with authors, AS PEOPLE. Not with authors who merely see me as a customer.

This is a kindle owner's board, not a book board. Not an author's board. If you want to sell your books, good luck. But don't try and disguise it as a "discussion" of anything.

As I've said, you have choices. If you want to sell, use the bazaar. If you want to talk about a book you've read (not one you've written), use the book corner. You want to talk technique, there's the cafe.

If you want to get to know people come out of the bazaar and the cafe and interact with people, as people, not buyers.


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## opuscroakus

The Hooded Claw said:


> General life advice: _Yelling at the people who have the power to give or deny you what you want is very seldom a good way to get what you want._


I can only assume that since you didn't bother to quote anyone in particular, that you were directing this to me, since I seem to be the most outspoken here about it.

Apparently, you didn't read the entire thread, OR my posts in their entirety, because A) I wasn't YELLING AT anyone, and B) *I* was the one who did just that: I started a very civil thread for discussion about an idea that several others weighed in on and then got the big fat juicy glorious NO, which I fully expected from this place.

The bottom line is, that Harvey's solution will. not. work. Oh, sure, it's fine for anyone who's already participated in THIS thread (who can be arsed to weed through the squillions of threads and then lose them) and knows what's already been said, but for anyone new wanting to find a general historical fiction place in which simultaneous discussions about books AND writing are going on will have absolutely no idea that anything remotely similar is taking place in the Book Corner, and why would they? There is NOTHING in the description about any sort of discussions taking place that don't centre around books. And according to their own description, anything most in this thread have said they want will be considered off-topic there and subject yet again, to moderation and removal, because they WON'T be just about book discussions.

This is the first time I've seen you participate in this discussion, so you'll forgive the rest of us for being just a wee bit upset and feeling the freedom to express that. We've broken NO rules.


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## opuscroakus

scarlet said:


> Yes, I want to interact with authors, AS PEOPLE. Not with authors who merely see me as a customer.
> 
> This is a kindle owner's board, not a book board. Not an author's board.


Then you best inform them, because if they saw it ONLY as an owner's board, they wouldn't have bothered to make provisions for the rest of us mere peons who write those books you load onto your Kindle.



> If you want to sell your books, good luck. But don't try and disguise it as a "discussion" of anything.


I never said that anywhere, and you can't show me where I have. If you had bothered to go through ALL the posts instead of making judgements, you would've seen that it was about so much more. I was only speaking to your one point that you obviously took out-of-context, and then misinterpreted.



> As I've said, you have choices. If you want to sell, use the bazaar. If you want to talk about a book you've read (not one you've written), use the book corner. You want to talk technique, there's the cafe.


And as several have already said, that doesn't work for what we want.

The same could be said of the readers, however. You have just as many choices as we do, so if you don't like a soft-sell (read=books in sig files), take it up with the moderators, but don't blame the authors.

Oh, and PS--The idea for interacting with readers through discussions for selling our books came directly from the moderators. Just sayin'.


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## The Hooded Claw

opuscroakus said:


> I can only assume that since you didn't bother to quote anyone in particular, that you were directing this to me, since I seem to be the most outspoken here about it.
> 
> Apparently, you didn't read the entire thread, OR my posts in their entirety, because A) I wasn't YELLING AT anyone, and B) *I* was the one who did just that: I started a very civil thread for discussion about an idea that several others weighed in on and then got the big fat juicy glorious NO, which I fully expected from this place.


Announcing or even ironclad proving of the idiocy of my comments doesn't help you. My sincere advice to you to get what you want is to put your energy and creativity into participating in a thread that is what you are seeking, and is so popular that the moderators have no choice but to give it more prominence. Enjoy your evening.


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## Susan in VA

opuscroakus said:


> Then you're missing the poing of this place, period. For the most part, readers who interact with authors buy more books. I've made fewer sales from my self-promotion threads that I'm only allowed to post to once every seven days (RIDICULOUS NOTION, btw), than I do when I'm actually interacting in real discussions with the readers. Maybe it doesn't work that way for you, but the majority of authors who post here have reported the same phenomenon.


The point of this place is NOT to sell books, much as that may come as a surprise to a few of the authors here. Note the name: *Kindle*Boards. People come together here because they own, hope to own, approve of, have questions about, or write for the Kindle. Yes, they also talk about everything else under the sun, and yes, they also talk about books that they read on other e-readers and in paper form. But no, KindleBoards does not revolve primarily around authors or book sales. You'll have to look elsewhere for that.


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## opuscroakus

The Hooded Claw said:


> Announcing or even ironclad proving of the idiocy of my comments doesn't help you. My sincere advice to you to get what you want is to put your energy and creativity into participating in a thread that is what you are seeking, and is so popular that the moderators have no choice but to give it more prominence. Enjoy your evening.


And thanks for your opinion. Again.


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## opuscroakus

Susan in VA said:


> The point of this place is NOT to sell books, much as that may come as a surprise to a few of the authors here. Note the name: *Kindle*Boards. People come together here because they own, hope to own, approve of, have questions about, or write for the Kindle. Yes, they also talk about everything else under the sun, and yes, they also talk about books that they read on other e-readers and in paper form. But no, KindleBoards does not revolve primarily around authors or book sales. You'll have to look elsewhere for that.


You think so, hunh?

When I first published to Kindle, this was the very FIRST place I was directed to sell. my. books.

One of the first welcome messages authors get upon registering here, is a notice informing you that Kindle readers buy Kindle stories, and this IS the place to get your books noticed, because this is the biggest place that the most Kindle readers gather.

There are numerous threads that I know Harvey alone has started in which authors are asked to post their books, genre and pen name so there will be a single directory of them. Why? To make it easy on the authors? Um, no, to make it easy for the READERS and KINDLE OWNERS to FIND BOOKS to download.

You may think authors aren't given just as much attention and ecouragement for selling their books, but you would be wrong. Period.

Now. If you'll kindly stop bashing the authors here, perhaps we can get back to solving the problem of creating one group all-inclusive of book discussions AND writing discussions.


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## telracs

Opus, you may have been sent here by people in order to sell your books, but that is because some people think like you, that this is the place. 

However,  NOT all of us think that way.  And, as I've said, the authors that do well talk to us like people not customers.

And if you aren't willing to listen to other people's opinions, there is no point in talking anymore.  

I wish you well, and may many sales bring you happiness.


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## opuscroakus

scarlet said:


> Opus, you may have been sent here by people in order to sell your books, but that is because some people think like you, that this is the place.


And as I said, the welcome messages pretty much spell out what will gain sales for us and that this IS the place to do that. I'm sorry this offends you, but it's the truth.



> However, NOT all of us think that way. And, as I've said, the authors that do well talk to us like people not customers.
> 
> And if you aren't willing to listen to other people's opinions, there is no point in talking anymore.
> 
> I wish you well, and may many sales bring you happiness.


Oh, calm down, for crap's sake.

And yes, I don't believe we have anything further to say, as you're not actually participating in the thesis of this thread, which is about a discussion group that's all-inclusive for writing and reading historical fiction. I got up your nose, obviously, because you took one of my minor comments OUT-OF-CONTEXT and THEN misinterpreted it, THEN argued against it, and that wasn't even what I said! I detest it when people do that, because they always win their straw man argument.

READ the entire thread. I discuss my desires for wanting a place where both readers AND writers can talk about historical fiction quite nicely, and it's still my one desire to see that here. But it won't happen in the Book Corner.

So, if you have ideas, I'd love to hear them.

If you don't, then have a nice evening.


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## Susan in VA

opuscroakus said:


> When I first published to Kindle, this was the very FIRST place I was directed to sell. my. books.
> 
> One of the first welcome messages authors get upon registering here, is a notice informing you that Kindle readers buy Kindle stories, and this IS the place to get your books noticed, because this is the biggest place that the most Kindle readers gather.


But that's a good thing. It shows you that authors are indeed welcome here, right?



opuscroakus said:


> There are numerous threads that I know Harvey alone has started in which authors are asked to post their books, genre and pen name so there will be a single directory of them. Why? To make it easy on the authors? Um, no, to make it easy for the READERS and KINDLE OWNERS to FIND BOOKS to download.


Well, yes, because the READERS keep the forum active with their thousands of posts, and did so long before more than a handful of authors had found KB.... and they buy lots of books from the authors partly thanks to those directories .... so why does it bother you that a forum originally created for readers does something to make life a little easier for them _which then also benefits you as author_?



opuscroakus said:


> Now. If you'll kindly stop bashing the authors here, perhaps we can get back to solving the problem of creating one group all-inclusive of book discussions AND writing discussions.


As others have said, there isn't really a "problem" here.... for heaven's sake, just start a thread in the Book Corner, and if there are enough people who want to talk about the same things as you, that thread will stay at the top... why would this thread need a separate sub-board?
And I sincerely hope that you are not accusing_ me _of bashing the authors here. I have at times taken issue with individual authors hijacking unrelated threads with a sales pitch, but for the most part I enjoy the interaction with fellow KindleBoards members _whether or not they happen to be authors_.


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## opuscroakus

Susan in VA said:


> so why does it bother you that a forum originally created for readers does something to make life a little easier for them _which then also benefits you as author_?


Okay, now I think my head is about to implode.

I NEVER said there was a problem. I NEVER even implied this...that other person did when she picked a minor point I made in a post, took it completely out-of-context and then misinterpreted it and decided that I was wanting to begin a group with deception so that I could secretly sell my books. That simply couldn't be farther from the truth, and it's made me angry now, because it's nothing short of offensive. I began this thread with nothing but altruistic intentions, and this is how she treats it? She wasn't even actively participating anywhere in this thread. She just "decided" that I was some trouble-maker who needed to be taken down a notch, and I don't take kindly to that.

This thread has never been about ANY of this. So I'm not sure why you two in particular, have made it a huge, whopping issue! Why?



> for heaven's sake, just start a thread in the Book Corner, and if there are enough people who want to talk about the same things as you, that thread will stay at the top... why would this thread need a separate sub-board?


Oh for crap's sake, I've already explained this plenty of times as to why this wouldn't work.

From my response to Hooded claw, or whoever he was (I've bolded the important words):



> The bottom line is, that Harvey's solution will. not. work. Oh, sure, it's fine for anyone who's already participated in THIS thread (who can be arsed to weed through the squillions of threads and then lose them) and knows what's already been said, but for anyone *new* wanting to find a general historical fiction place in which simultaneous discussions about books AND writing are going on will have absolutely no idea that anything remotely similar is taking place in the Book Corner, and why would they? *There is NOTHING in the description about any sort of discussions taking place that don't centre around books.* And according to their own description, anything most in this thread have said they want *will be considered off-topic there and subject yet again, to moderation and removal,* because they WON'T be just about book discussions.


You didn't read all the posts in the thread, either, did you?

You jumped on board a comment that was that was pulled from context and blown into something it wasn't.

I'd like to see this get back to the thesis, if you don't mind, and that's why we can't convince the moderators that the Book Corner won't work for what we envisioned. Why is THAT so bad?


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## intinst

opuscroakus said:


> Then you best inform them, because if they saw it ONLY as an owner's board, they wouldn't have bothered to make provisions for the rest of us mere peons who write those books you load onto your Kindle.
> 
> I never said that anywhere, and you can't show me where I have. If you had bothered to go through ALL the posts instead of making judgements, you would've seen that it was about so much more. I was only speaking to your one point that you obviously took out-of-context, and then misinterpreted.
> 
> And as several have already said, that doesn't work for what we want.
> 
> The same could be said of the readers, however. You have just as many choices as we do, so if you don't like a soft-sell (read=books in sig files), take it up with the moderators, but don't blame the authors.
> 
> Oh, and PS--The idea for interacting with readers through discussions for selling our books came directly from the moderators. Just sayin'.


I am always surprised that the authors who say that they are trying to increase the numbers of readers for their books go so far to alienate those very people who would likely have bought those very books. Thank you for your posts in this thread, they saved me the time of reading the samples of your books that were on my Kindle.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Okay, folks....please take a deep breath.

Let's keep the posts to the topic, let's stop picking apart each others' posts, and let's stop attributing things to people that they didn't say.  And I'm not directing that at any one person, there have been multiple incidents.

Oh, and some discussions of historical fiction have broken out in the Book Corner.

Betsy


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## opuscroakus

intinst said:


> I am always surprised that the authors who say that they are trying to increase the numbers of readers for their books go so far to alienate those very people who would likely have bought those very books. Thank you for your posts in this thread, they saved me the time of reading the samples of your books that were on my Kindle.


You'll have to remind me exactly what your post has to do with a historical fiction reading group again??

Oh, and I NEVER said I was trying to increase anything.

My original comment that's caused everyone to spill over into the absurd, and notice how I begin. FOR THE MOST PART (which clearly leaves room for exceptions):



> For the most part, readers who interact with authors buy more books. I've made fewer sales from my self-promotion threads that I'm only allowed to post to once every seven days (RIDICULOUS NOTION, btw), than I do when I'm actually interacting in real discussions with the readers. Maybe it doesn't work that way for you, but the majority of authors who post here have reported the same phenomenon.


NOWHERE did I say this place was only for authors. NOWHERE did I say that I was being deceptive in wanting to begin a discussion group so I can get more sales. NOWEHRE did I effin' say I needed to increase my sales or readers or anything else.

God, I'm sick of having to defend myself against shit I did NOT say, and all because people were too lazy to read a thread.

And no, Betsy, no need to lock down the thread. I'm out so it's over.


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## 1131

I have followed this thread since it was started (and have read every post).  I enjoy historical fiction but didn't participate because I don't think there is a need for a combined writing/reading discussion group.  I see the mods point and agree with them.  Both of these things can be discussed in seperate areas.  I realize this isn't what some of the posters in this thread want but it is what the mods decided to do.  

I also think that the book corner is not as reader friendly as it once was so I stay out of there.  However, any new member just needs to ask a question and there will be many people who will be happy to help them find what they are looking for.  What it comes down to (for me) is that the owner of this site and his designated representatives do not see Kindleboards as being the place for this type of group and they are the ones who get to make that decision.


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## SheilaLouise

imallbs said:


> What it comes down to (for me) is that the owner of this site and his designated representatives do not see Kindleboards as being the place for this type of group and they are the ones who get to make that decision.


That is the bottom line for me as well. I think it makes sense to at least try to work within the framework provided. Besides, I'm not about to pick up my toys and go home because I only just arrived!


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## Grace Elliot

I'd pop in and take part if there was a historical fiction club - love the genre!


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## Betsy the Quilter

Grace, there are several historical fiction threads in the Book Corner that you're welcome to take part in as a reader.  Or start one if the existing ones don't meet your needs.  (Search for "historical fiction" in the Google search box in the forum header.) For the reasons stated earlier in this thread, we're not going to have a Historical Fiction club at this time.

Betsy


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## JeffreyVanke

Can the Alan Furst fans here recommend other niche historical fiction thriller authors, more like Furst or even Ken Follett than like Ludlum, and including any set just in the U.S.?


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## wdeen

If you get one started, or I can do some leg work, let me know. I'm in if its Historical Fiction!


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## Stuart S. Laing

< pops head above the parapet, takes a quick look around, it seems quiet at the moment and decides to risk it.

Hi all, I think a forum to discuss Historical Fiction would be a fantastic idea and truly hope that we find such a home to share our favourite books and authors in this genre.

Right, back into the trench and out of the firing line before the bullets start flying again


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## montereywriter

So I assume this never got off the ground? I'm new and am looking for this shtuff!


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## JRTomlin

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Grace, there are several historical fiction threads in the Book Corner that you're welcome to take part in as a reader. Or start one if the existing ones don't meet your needs. (Search for "historical fiction" in the Google search box in the forum header.) For the reasons stated earlier in this thread, we're not going to have a Historical Fiction club at this time.
> 
> Betsy


Ok. Then may I please have the popcorn concession for this thread?


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## Grace Elliot

I'd be interested - Why dont we dive in and start chatting HF??

Currently reading 
This is the debut novel of Nancy Bilyeau who is obviously destined for great things! She reminds me a little of Hillary Mantel (in the depth of her research) but is FAR more readable. About halfway through at the moment and just have to keep reading about the compelling hunt for the mysterious Aethelston crown. 
Anybody else read this one??


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## Betsy the Quilter

Grace, there's a thread for discussion of HF on the Book Corner.

Betsy


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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