# Dog advice



## cjpatrick (Jan 4, 2009)

I've noticed over my time here at the Kindleboards that many of my fellow KB'ers have pets. I am currently looking into getting a dog. I've pretty much decided I will be adopting one so my selection isn't infinite. I would, however, love some advice from you people. 

Here's my situation:
I live in an apartment. I have a cat. I want one that will be friendly towards the cat. My wife and I have no kids. And although we live in an apartment, our complex is connected to one of the largest municipal parks in the country so I am able to walk him/her daily and there's a large dog area that includes 2-3 ponds, and people frequently out there with their own dogs. I'd love to be able to walk briskly or jog with the dog in the mornings. He shouldn't ever be home alone more than 8 hours a day, and that is a rarity as my wife and I work different schedules. Finally, I would love for him/her to be friendly. I don't need anything to attack intruders, just a lovable family pet.

Do you have any suggestions?


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## egh34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Everyone will have an opinion on their favorite dogs, and they own it, lol!! But seriously, do some research, go to a dog show if you can. Somewhere I think either Iams or Purina or even the AKC has a "dog finder" to help find the right dog for you.

I, of course, would recommend a lab. They can be high energy or low energy, and stand up well to the kind of exercise you are describing. It is a pet peeve of mine when people who live in apartments get a high energy dog like a terrier or brittany annd then do nothing with it.  As far as the cat goes, a lot of times if they are raised together they will be fine. Just don't get a grey hound or husky, they are notorius cat killers. That comment could bring out some replies, but seriously I was a vet tech and an animal control officer so I am just speaking from experience.

Anyway, not sure this is helpful, as you didn't really mention size, but good luck and keep us posted!


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

We have a pug, which is very much a people-dog, and probably would do OK in an apartment.  They're very smart, pretty small, and bred to be companions.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I think the dog vs. cat thing is probably more an issue of socialization and upbringing than specific breed, though I'm sure there can be certain tendencies. And of course 50% of it will be the cat and whether or not it can get along with the dog. I have seen Pekingese dogs living in harmony with Siamese cats, Collies with Calicoes, and Labs with pretty much anything. But it mostly has to do with how they were raised and conditioned. And it's likely easier to introduce a puppy to life with a cat than an adult dog that has never lived with a cat.

I think an excellent breed for living in an apartment but with access to a nice long walk each day is the Whippet. Like most Sight Hounds, it tends to be laid back indoors, though it will definitely love an opportunity for a good amount of daily exercise. I would think that attitude-wise while indoors it could be a good candidate for learning to get along with your cat, _except_ that sight hounds tend as a group to have a high prey drive, so it might still be a challenge, especially if the cat tends to run away from it as opposed to standing up to it.

Probably the only way to tell is to find opportunities for adoption where you can bring the dog and cat together in a carefully controlled environment to see how they respond to each other (and hopefully not find out that the cat is 100% dead set against having anything to do with dogs).


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## F1Wild (Jun 15, 2009)

Yeah for you getting advice before jumping in!

My husband and I brought our beloved Collie, Chewie, over from Ireland a few years ago.  She loved it here, but chased my 2 Siamese cats (1 stood up to her, 1 was always hiding).  Last year we decided to get a friend for her since she was getting old and we were working.  We love the look & temperament of the collie, but wanted a bit smaller so researched Shelties (Shetland Sheepdogs).  We looked into various rescue groups and found a dog who was bred for show, but then grew a bit too tall for the AKC standards.  A few medical things happened to me and this dog, Alfie, was adopted to a woman in Flagstaff (we're in Phoenix).  His brother Duncan was available and we went up to meet him and introduce him to Chewie.  They got on great and we adopted him (also changed his name to Yoda).  Yoda loved Chewie and loooooved our 2 cats (we have an official bromance between Kibou & Yoda)!!  

Chewie passed away earlier this year and after a grieving period we decided to take the plunge and try to find another friend for Yoda - as he was really sad, lonely and missing his older sis.  We went through the same rescue group, and found they were having a Sheltie adoption at a local Petsmart.  We brought Yoda with us and there were probably 12-15 adoptable Shelties (of all ages and stories) there.  Yoda went right up to a thin one who was in a volunteer's lap.  This one's owner had recently passed away, he had been taken to his vet, then to the rescue then to a foster home - poor thing was so traumatized.  We took him for a little walk with Yoda and they just went along side by side perfectly.  After looking at & interacting with all of the dogs we told them we were interested in this dog and arranged a home visit for the next day.  I took several pictures of him with Yoda.  

When we got home I received via email his info - Alfie, had been adopted by a woman in Flagstaff last year, but then she ended up with breast cancer and died.  We looked at the pics I took and compared them to the pics of the dog we were going to adopt and realized that this could be Yoda's littermate, only thinner now.  The next day the foster parents came over with the rescue rep and Alfie.  We were told he was very, very nervous and would not come out of his crate most of the time.  Well, he ran outside with us, jumped up on the patio sofa and cuddled with me.  Then he and Yoda ran around the backyard in circles.  The real test was his view on cats.  We brought them in and introduced him to our brave cat Kibou and they just stared at each other and yawned.  That was it - we adopted him on the spot.  He did spend a few nights (only) in his crate, but then decided he wanted to sleep with Yoda on the floor, next to our bed.

We've now had Obi-Wan (he loves his new name so much more than his other one) since April and consider ourselves to be one big happy family.  And for the first time ever everyone gets along.

I can provide any information on Shelties - mid-sized, love to run & play, smart and love cats (ours do anyway).  I also have a ton of info on various rescue groups throughout the USA.

Sorry this was so long.  Hope you find a perfect match.


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## F1Wild (Jun 15, 2009)

NogDog said:


> I think the dog vs. cat thing is probably more an issue of socialization and upbringing than specific breed, though I'm sure there can be certain tendencies....sight hounds tend as a group to have a high prey drive, so it might still be a challenge, especially if the cat tends to run away from it as opposed to standing up to it....see how they respond to each other (and hopefully not find out that the cat is 100% dead set against having anything to do with dogs).


I agree, most sight hounds do have the instinct to chase and most cats when chased will run. We've had great luck with our Shelties, which are herding dogs.

I would highly recommend doing a home test before adopting, purchasing. This way you can see how the dog & cat interact on the cat's home turf. Don't try to wing it. You can usually tell right away if there is going to be a problem.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I had two Lhasa Apsos (not at the same time) and both used to want to play with my neighbors cats; though the cats wanted nothing to do with them. Neither Lhasa knew that they weren't supposed to like cats. Poor Sophia used to sit at the base of the tree and cry wanting my neighbor's cat to come down to play.

Lhasa's are great apartment dogs; size-wise. Known for being good when left alone. Not big shedders because they are "real" hair and not fur hair (does that make sense?) Though do require quite a bit of grooming. Mine loved to walk/run. Both were shy with strangers; but were loving once they got to know you. LOYAL to a fault. KEEN hearing...are known to bark at the quietest of noises. Not known to be great with kids; though both of mine adored children and were very very protective of babies. So much so, they would stand guard if a baby was near. Non-Sporting group. In ancient times they were "palace dogs" used to guard the palace; because of their keen sense of hearing. The only drawback I see for you would be the barking (apartment).
Here: this might help (taken from AKC) http://www.akc.org/breeds/lhasa_apso/


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I would encourage you to consider a shelter or rescue dog.  If you settle on a specific breed, check to see if there is a rescue organization for that breed.  Bearing in mind that some rescue dogs have been abused, and that would be difficult, other times they are just abandoned and need a good home.  Same with shelter dogs.

Betsy


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I would encourage you to consider a shelter or rescue dog. If you settle on a specific breed, check to see if there is a rescue organization for that breed. Bearing in mind that some rescue dogs have been abused, and that would be difficult, other times they are just abandoned and need a good home. Same with shelter dogs.
> 
> Betsy


I agree. There are so many great dogs you can get at a shelter or rescue and they are a lot cheaper. Plus, they're almost always spayed/neutered before you even bring them home, so that's one less hassle. Or maybe you can find someone that is looking to rehome their pet. That's how I got mine.

I would be mindful of what your apartment's pound limitation is. If there isn't one, then you need to consider if you will be staying in that apartment forever or moving to another apartment (rather than buying a house). When I lived in an apartment, the max weight for a pet was 20 pounds. I think it's horrible when someone commits to a pup and then a few years later dumps it at the pound or the park because they're going to move to a place that won't allow their pet and it's too inconvenient to search for a place to live that will. *steps down from soapbox *

Oh, and depending on where you live or may live in the future, I would also be wary of certain breeds. I think pit bulls are absolutely adorable, but there are cities out there that ban pit bulls and other breeds they believe to be "aggressive."

*One more thing I forgot: Wherever you decide to get your pup, please do not buy one at a pet store. I don't mean the dogs that shelters will bring to the store certain days of the week to get adopted. I'm talking about actual pet store pups. These are all puppy mill pups. Not only do you risk getting a puppy with compromised health, but you're also supporting puppy mills.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm a big fan of mutts, any kind of mutts... Both of my rescues are hound mutts.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> I'm a big fan of mutts, any kind of mutts... Both of my rescues are hound mutts.


See my avatar.


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## erskinelake (Jun 27, 2009)

I'm going to chime in here with "Adopt a greyhound".  They are usually cat tested..and if they get along with a cat you are set.  They are couch potatoes..meaning if your not making them move..they don't.  No barking..perfect for apartment dwellers.  They love people and usually greet someone with a lean against them.  They don't pull on lead since at the track that is not tolerated..so they walk well.  As big as some are they really are perfect for apartment living.  You can get one as small as 55-60 lbs and some males can be 95...but you will know that in advance.  No puppy stage and you can get one as young as 2 to 2 1/2 years old..they get on the track at about 18 months old..if their not showing racing potential their off.  Though most are about 3 to 3 1/2 years old. 

Though they are couch potatoes they do love a good walk or even a jog..BUT they can never be off leash in an open field..being sight hounds they be off in an instant. 

This is coming from someone who has owned two..our Lucy just passed 2 weeks ago.

I don't think you'll be sorry at all!

Good Luck,
Chris


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

I agree wholeheartedly:  DO NOT get a petstore puppymill pup.
Adopt or go to a breeder akc recommended


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## cjpatrick (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks. I appreciate all your advice, and anymore that will come. Our apartment has a weight limit of 60lbs, although judging by alot of my neighbors pets they don't enforce it. I should mention that our cat was raised with dogs. She's been through about three different dogs in her life. Two were older when she was born and passed away and a third dog was brought in as a puppy (she used to live with my in-laws). She has always done well with the animals. She ocassionally played with the jack russel, and then sometimes she simply ignores him. We are absolutely adopting and not going anywhere near a puppy mill. The adoption places I am considering are coming on the advice of our cat's vet so I feel strongly about where we will be getting the animal from.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

erskinelake said:


> I'm going to chime in here with "Adopt a greyhound". They are usually cat tested..and if they get along with a cat you are set. They are couch potatoes..meaning if your not making them move..they don't. No barking..perfect for apartment dwellers. They love people and usually greet someone with a lean against them. They don't pull on lead since at the track that is not tolerated..so they walk well. As big as some are they really are perfect for apartment living. You can get one as small as 55-60 lbs and some males can be 95...but you will know that in advance. No puppy stage and you can get one as young as 2 to 2 1/2 years old..they get on the track at about 18 months old..if their not showing racing potential their off. Though most are about 3 to 3 1/2 years old.
> 
> Though they are couch potatoes they do love a good walk or even a jog..BUT they can never be off leash in an open field..being sight hounds they be off in an instant.
> 
> ...


That pretty much describes why I recommended the Whippet. It is in almost every respect the same, except for the size (25-40 lb. as opposed to the Greyhound's 60-90 lb.) I of course would love either, I was just thinking a Whippet might be a bit more manageable in an apartment. There may be a bigger "market" for rescue Greyhounds due to the racing industry, however.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

I'm a huge fan of retired racing greyhounds. IME the rescue groups do a great job of matching up the right dog with the right home. They don't shed a lot (compared to many other breeds), grooming needs are minimal, they can handle walks and jogs but don't usually need it to stay sane, and they don't tend to be barky. So often they're a really good choice for people in apartments. I don't know as much about whippets, but I'm guessing they're pretty much the same.

A beagle could also meet your criteria. They are low maintenance as far as grooming, shedding isn't awful, they're generally _very_ friendly to everyone they meet, small to medium-sized, love a good walk/run but are often couch potatoes inside. They aren't yappers, although some can have a tendency to bark/bay. A good rescue group would know which ones would do fine in an apartment.

Regardless of what breed/mix you ultimately go with, I'd really want to give high priority to the energy level of any individual dog in consideration. I think I meet more people who have issues with their dog's exercise needs/energy level than any other issue. Planning to walk/jog every morning is great, but what about those mornings when you have a very early meeting, or it's absolutely pouring rain for a couple of days in a row? You want a dog who won't be bouncing off the walls because he didn't get his exercise in.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I second what everyone says about greyhounds. We had our greyhound Jessie for 9 years (adopted her through the rescue when she was three) and I still miss her every single day.

I know that our rescue (Maine Greyhound Placement Service) will occasionally get an Italian greyhound for adoption -- they are small like a whippet. I know people can place their names on a waiting list if that is what they are looking for.

When we got Jessie she weighed 49 lbs. and we let her eat and she got up to 55 lbs. Still on the small side for a greyhound but it would be w/in the limit for your apartment.

L


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

When you contact the rescue groups that your vet has recommended, they will be able to let you know what they have that will meet the needs of your family.  When they know that you need a dog that is good with cats, the group should be able to tell you which of their dogs meets that criteria, etc.  That should be able to help you narrow down your choices.  Since there are a lot of breeds that would meet your general criteria and you are not strongly drawn to any one breed, a mixed-breed dog may work very well for you.

Good luck!


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I direct my comments to your first post.
You said you live in an apartment, have a cat, want to run with the dog and have a 60lb limit.
Adopting a pet from the pound - a terrific idea.  Part because they need homes and part because most will be a little past puppihood and you will be able to see how they will act.  Don't have to wait for them to "grow up".  And they may be housebroken.

You do not want a French Bulldog or even a Pug probably - you did say you want to run with the dog.
Most terriers (even though the prior writer is correct about high energy) will be able to run right along with you and for the distance - high energy.
Consider wirehair types - shedding dogs can make for an incredible amount of cleaning.  A collie is a wonderful dog - but it sheds.  And while the labrador (at the high end of your weight limit) looks trim coat-wise, they shed and shed.  Had one.
Still on size consider that you have to deal with the dogs poop.  Sorry to bring up this subject, but a good dog owner takes care of his animal's wastes.
If you live in an apartment that means taking the dog out often (any breed) and then picking up the poop (baggie) and carrying it with you and properly (yes I said properly - check with the local officials about this) disposing of it.  Don't just leave it behind.  And I do not subscibe to the idea that if you can get your dog to poop in the gutter that you can leave it there.  Ewwww. Bad manners.  Point is - big dog means big poop.  again eww.
Also size contributes to cost of feeding. Bottom line the AKC site has great writeups of breeds. Health - known problems is important.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Good luck with whatever you get.  I have always had shelter dogs, but no cats, and have been happy with them.  There is lots of advise here and all sound good.  We have a couple of dog trainers as members of the KB and perhaps they will chime in also.

I do agree with Geoff on the poop, I am one who makes a big deal of picking up poop just so others will see and perhaps follow my example.  Shedding is also a factor that I agree with Geoff on.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

You have received terrific advice from everybody.  Since we are mentioning the pooper-scooper patrol, I thought I would let you know that minature dogs are pretty easy to litter box train ( since you already have a cat, too).  It's handy for apartment dwellers and you don't have to worry about a mess in the house (and the dog getting upset because he has done something "bad") if your walk schedule runs late, or it's pouring rain, or a blizzard, or you want to sleep in, or.....


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

Retired racing greyhound are a good choice. Ours lived in a smallish house with another small dog and three cats with never a problem. We do have a large fenced in yard that he loved to run in but with regular walks, I am sure one would do great in an apartment. Most people think that they would be high strung, but ours was a regular couch potato.


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## L Brandt (Feb 24, 2009)

I have Bichon's (3), Weimeraner, Poms (2), Cocker Spaniels (2), and Brussels Griffons (2) and a couple of mutts . (most are rescues).

First you have a cat, and you live in an apartment, while I would recommend a lab they are a large dog. So I recommended a Brussels Griffon, they have a very silent bark and when they talk to you it is more of a woo, woo sound.

Here is the link to the Brussels Griffon Rescue, check out their page, of Available Griffs: http://www.brusselsgriffonrescue.org

Your other option is to gp tp the AKC.org web site look at the different breeds and they list rescue groups for specific breeds.

No matter what you chose mutt or specific breed, they will wiggle a way into your heart!
Good Luck.


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## KathyluvsKindle (Apr 13, 2009)

A well socialized West Highland Terrier would be ideal.  My Duncan went to dog heaven two years ago and I still miss  him terribly. He love all people and all cats. He was left alone all day when I was at work. He slept all day and insisted on lots of attention when I was home.

He was an independent little cuss and cute as could be. Was loved by all.


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## Kristan Hoffman (Aug 6, 2009)

Background: BIG dog lover here. Not necessarily a dog expert, but learning more and more every day. Growing up I had a Lhasa Apso (named Yogi), and about 2 yrs ago I adopted a Jack Russell/Beagle/Border Collie mix (named Riley). He's AWESOME.

Yogi:







Riley:









Just FYI, a shelter dog is likely to be a mix, so specific breed recommendations should be considered more of a guideline for "if your dog looks like he might have some of this in him..." 

A good shelter will let you go visit and look around, and I highly suggest going with your wife to look at any dogs you are considering. Play with them, see if y'all get along, and if they have a temperament you like. If you're looking at puppies from a litter, watch them interact with their siblings and see who is dominant, submissive, etc. Nothing wrong with any personality type, it's just a matter of what's the best fit for you.

Keep in mind that puppies are a lot more upfront work, but the bonding is great. Adopting adult dogs (1 yr to 5 yrs) can still provide that close bond without as much training, in many cases. Adopting older dogs (6 yrs +) can be a very lowkey, but WONDERFUL thing to do, IMHO.

Also small dogs tend to live longer, but large dogs tend to have more laidback personalities. (Of course there are exceptions.) Mixed breeds tend to have less health problems, but the problems of specific / pure breeds are generally well known and can be anticipated.

I recommend some basic training for ANY dog you adopt, even if the shelter claims they are trained, b/c it will show the dog you are the leader of the pack (to use Cesar Millan's term) and just help you form a bond. It sounds like your daily regimen has already been considered, and it sounds pretty good for any dog. Just try to match the size of your dog to the size of your living space. You won't always be able to take the dog out (due to rain, snow, etc.) so you will want to be able to play with him comfortably indoors.

Re: the cat thing. Yogi was very loving toward our cat (who was of the opposite gender and came later), but Riley is also good with cats in the sense that he is curious but not aggressive towards them. I think a lot of it has to do with socialization more than anything else, because Riley is a combo of hunting and shepherding breeds, but he only goes after wild animals (squirrels, deer, rabbits) not cats.

(Also, Yogi was a good dog, but not very affectionate. Riley gives kisses like nobody's business and always wants to curl up with someone.)

Anyway, that's more than long enough. Keep us updated! And good luck with whatever dog you choose to bring into your family. 

Kristan


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

and *PICTURES* on any new addition are absolutely required


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## erskinelake (Jun 27, 2009)

NogDog said:


> That pretty much describes why I recommended the Whippet. It is in almost every respect the same, except for the size (25-40 lb. as opposed to the Greyhound's 60-90 lb.) I of course would love either, I was just thinking a Whippet might be a bit more manageable in an apartment. There may be a bigger "market" for rescue Greyhounds due to the racing industry, however.


I have an Italian Greyhound (avatar) Gotti..he is the sweetest dog but out of all of them he's the most active and the loudest. LOL!! Our Lucy, greyhound, was the quietest and the most mellow. How do whippet's rate? I've never really known one in a home situation so I don't know what their temperment is like..they might be the better choice due to the weight limit.

As far as rescue goes..IG's you'll find because they are hard to housebreak and most people give them up not willing to deal with it..and greyhounds due to the racing.

Either way any rescued dog will be lucky to find a forever home~!


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Whatever you decide:  We know you will be a great pet owner...just by the questions you have asked and the concerns for the future pet.

Let us all know what you decide; so that we may celebrate with you.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

erskinelake said:


> ...How do whippet's rate? I've never really known one in a home situation so I don't know what their temperment is like..they might be the better choice due to the weight limit....


Some potentially useful Whippet info here:

So you think you want a Whippet, part 1
So you think you want a Whippet, part 2


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## Veronica (Jan 23, 2009)

erskinelake said:


> I have an Italian Greyhound (avatar) Gotti..he is the sweetest dog but out of all of them he's the most active and the loudest. LOL!! Our Lucy, greyhound, was the quietest and the most mellow. How do whippet's rate? I've never really known one in a home situation so I don't know what their temperment is like..they might be the better choice due to the weight limit.
> 
> As far as rescue goes..IG's you'll find because they are hard to housebreak and most people give them up not willing to deal with it..and greyhounds due to the racing.
> 
> Either way any rescued dog will be lucky to find a forever home~!


I heart Greyhounds. It's a shame on the size--with apartment weight limits--because all Greyhounds I've ever met are HUGE couch potatoes. I decided to go with an IG due to size, and oh my is he HYPER. Of course, he's mixed with a terrier, but sheesh. I hope not all IG's are that neurotic.

My little guy is 7 1/2 years old now and has mellowed out some, but he is still a handful.

I don't see myself out of my renting situation anytime soon, but I do hope to have a Greyhound someday.

My bit of advice to add is that unless you are committed to daily exercise, I think I would avoid any type of working dog. But that's just me.


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## corkyb (Apr 25, 2009)

BIG YORKIE FAN HERE!!!
They are the best little people in the world.  Fantastic personalities.  Great sizes.  They don't shed and have small compact poop.  I am on my second yorkie now.  would have a dozen if I had the space, time and money.  My avatar is a picture of Corky, my soul dog.  He went to the rainbow bridge a year ago.  I now have Cali an almost three year old, spoiled rotten yorkie girl.  One caveat, they are killers to housetrain, so I would suggest getting one that is already house broken.
Paula ny


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## Rhiathame (Mar 12, 2009)

I have to agree with F1Wild with the Shelties. I have had shelties most of my life and rescues are wonderful. I lived in an apartment with my previous sheltie for over 7 years and had no problems. They are very smart dogs and we were even able to encourge her not to bark much except when she needed to alert us to something.


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## F1Wild (Jun 15, 2009)

Rhiathame said:


> I have to agree with F1Wild with the Shelties. I have had shelties most of my life and rescues are wonderful. I lived in an apartment with my previous sheltie for over 7 years and had no problems. They are very smart dogs and we were even able to encourge her not to bark much except when she needed to alert us to something.


Our 2 Shelties have been the best choice in breed for us. We are both working so they are perfectly fine with amusing themselves. Small enough to pick up , but large enough to run with us. Smart as whips - very easily trained. And they both LOVE, LOVE, LOVE our cats (although, to be honest the 2 Siamese think they are the alpha dogs of the house). They are wonderful with strangers (just try to walk into a Petsmart without someone coming over to ooh-ah and pet.

The great thing is there are so many wonderful dogs. We are very happy with our rescues and received full medical records with each dog, and under the circumstances (owner dying) we know they didn't come from an abuse, neglect or on the streets situation. People must do the very sad thing of parting with pets for many reason, especially with the horrible economy.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

Greyhounds and Whippets can be good dogs without a doubt , *BUT* not the best choice for someone who has a cat or cats. If you doubt this a call to Greyhound and/or Whippet Rescue group will have them saying the same thing. This is a trait of the breed/s so it is not something that can be modified with training etc. A cat should not have to deal with being chased as prey , whether harm would actually be done or not.

I would recommend going to a local Humane Society, or more than 1 if you wish, and speaking with them about what you are looking for , that you live in an apartment , have a cat , would like a dog you can exercise with , and the weight limits you are needing to stay within. They are usually fairly good in pairing people with animals, or giving information on a breed/breeds that would be a good match .


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