# Kindlegen, Calibre, Jutoh, etc.



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

What it says on the box. What are you using, why do you prefer it?


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## Peter Spenser (Jan 26, 2012)

Nic said:


> What are you using, why do you prefer it?


Calibre.

It allows just about anyone, on almost any platform, using almost any Operating System, writing with almost any word processor, who speaks almost any language, to create a book that will upload to the Internet for all the world to read.

You don't need money. You don't need to own a computer or a word processor. You can even be homeless. If you can beg, borrow, or steal a jump drive, you can be an author and tell your story.

That's what Calibre allows you to do.

If that isn't the true democracy of self-publishing, I don't know what is.


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

I once used Calibre, but switched to Sigil about 3 years ago when iTunes refused to validate my Calibre-produced ePub file, plus I've heard that Amazon sometimes rejects Mobis from Calibre. But maybe that's old news and no longer true.


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

Nic said:


> What it says on the box. What are you using, why do you prefer it?


I use a combo. I export from Scrivener to ePub, and then use Sigil as well as Dreamweaver to clean up the code. I like the control I get over the code, and my file sizes are leaner, which means I save a little in Amazon's download fee.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Jutoh ...Scrivener-Word-Jutoh-Amazon  Why Jutoh...It's the one I learned to use


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Nic said:


> What are you using, why do you prefer it?


Though he has written a book telling people how to use Calibre with any word processor to get a book up on Amazon, my father and I use Pages 4.1 and Vellum for most of our own books.

Vellum makes gorgeous books and you can easily use it as a word processor and type your original text right into it, which saves a major step.

Pages is also a combination word processor/formatter that offers some features that Vellum does not, especially when used with the Apple-supplied "Best Practices" template that we have expanded and modified for our own use. We use Pages 4.1 specifically because it is a powerful, full-featured word processor. Later OSX versions have been "dumbed down" to be compatible with the iOS mobile versions.

Which app we use for any particular project depends upon the structure of the book.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2015)

Calibre.

Pros:

Supported on Linux
Has all the functionality of Sigil
Excellent TOC editor
Free and open source

Cons:

With so many controls, it can be easy to get lost
Nothing else really, it's a solid program


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

Sigil. I have an unlimited license for Vellum but have literally never used it. WAY too limited in terms of features. It's perfect for people who don't really want fine-tuned control, however. I like Jutoh, but found its UI to be a bit confusing.

Calibre? I've tried it a few times, and I keep getting hung up on the ebook management library crap I have no need for. All I want is to open an epub and edit it in a clean UI. That's why I love Sigil. That said, I haven't really dug into Calibre for a while, so maybe it's gotten a lot better than what I am used to.


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

InDesign's Kindle export plugin.


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

555aaa said:


> InDesign's Kindle export plugin.


My friend Liz Castro writes about ID's ePub capabilities with knowledge and enthusiasm, but I've heard others on this board say it's buggy and klinky and bloats the code.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Vellum. It's a little pricey but it's on sale until tomorrow. 

I love Vellum. You are limited to using their formatting options, but the e-books look great, and more importantly, the files are accepted by Apple and Google Play. Also, it's cut my formatting time into a fraction of what it used to be.

I used to use Calibre and format in Word, but Apple and Google Play would always kick the file back.

Vellum, I press one command and it gives me acceptable e-books for all major distributors and aggregators. And they've just made it super easy to do a boxed set.

*Note: However, it is Mac only. Price for unlimited books is $199 normally, but it's on sale for $149 until 10/14.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

I used to use dreamweaver, then I discovered Sigil, and I love it. Easy tools, easy access to the direct HTML, no bloat. And free! What's not to love?

Tried Calibre and I just couldn't figure it out. Tried Vellum and found it far too limiting. Half a dozen styles, and that's it. Not really customisable, though it is pretty. Didn't like Jutoh, I don't remember why.


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

Maggie Dana said:


> My friend Liz Castro writes about ID's ePub capabilities with knowledge and enthusiasm, but I've heard others on this board say it's buggy and klinky and bloats the code.


The Kindle plugin isn't supported in the latest versions of InDesign.

I've found the epub output to be not bloated and easy to customize if necessary. And with inCopy, you can sync the e-book text body to the print book. You can also use the xml import to take in the html files from an epub and, with some fiddling, make your print book from that if you've lost the original source document.

But I don't really like any of the tools I use, and what exactly Amazon wants is a moving target. I do use the downloadable previewer instead of kindlegen but that's also sort of pointless because you have to download the server side converted file to see what's REALLY going to be delivered to your customers, since the server side converter is different from kindlegen. It's more aggressive, for example, at stripping out fonts it doesn't like.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I write in Scrivener, export to Word to do my own edits and send to my editor, then format in Vellum. (Doing the final format in Vellum largely consists of importing the document and hitting a button.)

In the past I have used both Calibre and Scrivener to format. 

Scrivener has the advantage that you write and compile from the same program and I've never had validation issues. The problem is editors don't work in Scriv, so you need to export to Word, then reimport and importing is not Scrivener's forte.

Calibre can take a properly formatted word document where the body is in body style and the chapter heads are in header 1 and instantly create a fully validating file complete with a toc and ncx toc. Super, super, easy. 

The key to formatting with Calibre is to use the docx converter, NOT the html one. All the instructions tell you to export to html and use that to convert because they were written before the docx converter was added to Calibre. The docx is just a better piece of code. I had a list of things to do with the html converter to avoid issues with validation--use a one word name for the html file, convert to mobi, then convert the mobi to epub, etc. You don't need that with the docx converter. It just works.

Jutoh seems to do a great job, but I couldn't get past the amateurish look of their website and the program itself. There's a whole lot of snobbery in my reaction, but it was my reaction. They just didn't look like a company that was going to be around and was serious. They seem to have stuck around though. They might want to do a pass for nicer icons and all that stuff.


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

I tried Calibre when I first started formatting myself and kept having issues where it would ignore style settings in my CSS and it was driving me bonkers trying to figure out why my book wasn't looking right despite my code. Then finally a lightbulb went off and I realized that Calibre was doing something to my code. Once I pulled it out of my tool lineup, voila my book looked how I was coding it.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

I started on Sigil after writing the book in Word, but switched to Calibre when it (briefly) became the official successor to the then abandoned Sigil. I didn't last long with Calibre because of the amount of span spam ad other junk it was outputting into the html. I also had had problems with KDP's mobi conversion from Word (no guide TOC being the main one), so I switched to Jutoh to bake my own mobis. I fell in love with Jutoh because unlike Scrivener you can (re)import from an epub you are working on. Then Sigil came back into development and I started cleaning up my Jutoh epubs and realised that they were as full of span spam and other junk as a Calibre file. So I now write in OneNote, format in Sigil, and let Amazon convert a mobi from the bare-boned epub.

PS export to epub from InDesign CC is a mess.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

I added a poll.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Sophrosyne said:


> Vellum. It's a little pricey but it's on sale until tomorrow.
> 
> I love Vellum. You are limited to using their formatting options, but the e-books look great, and more importantly, the files are accepted by Apple and Google Play. Also, it's cut my formatting time into a fraction of what it used to be.
> 
> ...


This. It is ridiculously easy....no learning curve at all. Takes about 15 minutes if that, to format a book and with one click it generates versions for all platforms with unique links for that vendor. Oh, and it makes the books look really pretty and is fast and easy to update.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2015)

For reading myself, I use Scrivener with KindleGen to send it to my iPad.

For the final eBook versions, for the MOBI I use Word to export to HTML then pull it into Dreamweaver to clean up the code, add my stylesheet, and other tweaks.  Then pull that into Calibre for the final file tweaks and to do the actual MOBI and ePub conversions.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

I was doing docs in pure HTML and loading into KindlePreviewer ... errr ... without NCX for a long time. No one noticed! And the files were small, but I switched to Jutoh before it got noticed. 

Now I'm planning to go into KU and I've been hearing Jutoh adds bloat, and that I need to use Calibre to convert a Jutoh created Epub to a Mobi to optimize KENPC. ***SOOO*** frustrating. 

I'm wondering if I take my Open Office file, convert it to HTML, clean that up in Dreamweaver and then load up into Jutoh if that will fix the bloat issue?

I don't have Word, so if I want to switch to Vellum I'd need to first buy that that, then Vellum. I don't want this to be so complicated.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> I'm wondering if I take my Open Office file, convert it to HTML, clean that up in Dreamweaver and then load up into Jutoh if that will fix the bloat issue?
> 
> I don't have Word, so if I want to switch to Vellum I'd need to first buy that that, then Vellum. I don't want this to be so complicated.


Vellum will take .docx files created in Open Office.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Jutoh. A lot of thought went into the user interface and making everything polished. It's very smooth and intuitive to use. 

I was using Calibre to do conversions to EPUB (with Sigil to clean up the garbage) and Mobipocket creator for MOBI files because Calibre has a nasty tendency to screw those up. I switched to using Jutoh for the whole process and cut my total build time per project down by about 2/3. The way it handles each ebook as a project rather than a "book" keeps the metadata separated from the content in the app so it's extremely easy to change either without having to redo the data entry each time. It does internal validation with epubcheck and you can get all the way down into the XHTML to hand tweak anything you want.

First day I found a minor UI bug. Nothing that was a problem with the generated files, it was just in the display. I contacted their tech support and had a working beta in my hands less than two hours after my initial email. Try getting that kind of support with anything else out there.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> Vellum will take .docx files created in Open Office.


OpenOffice only exports Doc files as far as I can tell. It looks like I could buy Pages for $19.99 and there are some free online converters.

I just tried the Jutoh Epub > Calibre MOBI thing and got a MOBI file that was tiny ... but also didn't have page breaks between chapters. Not acceptable.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2015)

There is an OO/LO plugin called Writer2epub that exports your document as an epub, which you can work in Sigil/Calibre/whatever. The epub file is quite clean and works very well.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> OpenOffice only exports Doc files as far as I can tell.


I spoke out of turn. I use LibreOffice, which exports to .doc and .docx. I had assumed Open Office was identical to LibreOffice in that regard. My apologies.

For what it's worth, I'm able to pull both .doc and .docx files into Vellum.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> For what it's worth, I'm able to pull both .doc and .docx files into Vellum.


Thank you. I think I'm going to give Vellum a try. I'm tired of monkeying around; it's time better spent writing.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> Thank you. I think I'm going to give Vellum a try. I'm tired of monkeying around; it's time better spent writing.


That's exactly why I purchased it.

Also worth noting, Brad's support is phenomenal.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Mac only if nobody's mentioned that.


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

Mercia McMahon said:


> PS export to epub from InDesign CC is a mess.


I'm using a pre-CC version of InDesign, so maybe it got worse instead of better. The EPUB output I get is quite straightforward provided that you use header and paragraph styles and not go off manually fiddling with your content.

Is anyone generating EPUB3 books instead of EPUB2?


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

To any one still following the thread ...

Vellum is only supported on Mac (I have a Mac, so not a problem)
It does not support DOC files. I used GoogleDocs to convert an ODT to a DOCX file to import into Velum. It worked fine. I have had trouble converting larger files into GoogleDocs, but I think some of those had bad formatting (italics for large chunks of text instead of a proper style.) We do have a version of Word somewhere around the home office here if I really need it.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> It does not support DOC files.


You're absolutely right (and I'm absolutely wrong).

I thought the sample document from the tutorial ("The Invisible Man") is a .doc file. It is actually a .docx file.

Dang it. I've flubbed twice in this thread. Hard. I'm now removing my hands from the keyboard.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

C. Gockel said:


> OpenOffice only exports Doc files as far as I can tell. It looks like I could buy Pages for $19.99 and there are some free online converters.
> 
> I just tried the Jutoh Epub > Calibre MOBI thing and got a MOBI file that was tiny ... but also didn't have page breaks between chapters. Not acceptable.


 The word file I import to jutoh has simple formatting. Heading styles for chapter titles and page breaks in between each.

Doing this makes page breaks just fine for me.

Also, I'm not sure what the issue is with 'bloat' in an eBook file?

As long as it looks and functions correctly on user devices and has the correct KENPC, I'm not sure of the issue?


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

And just to state it, I so far was using the Smashwords meatgrinder, which has been turning out sweet mobis for me. Ditto D2D. I will be looking at Jutoh and Sigil though.


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## Bob Stewart (Mar 19, 2014)

I use Calibre. I input my Word .docx and output an ePub which is accepted fine at Apple, Google, ad everyone else, and  I don't need to do any tweaking at all. 

It takes me less than five minutes to turn my docx final draft into an ePub, and most of that is just entering the metadata.

If you had trouble before, you might try the newest version. It definitely works more smoothly than the one I started with a couple years ago.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2015)

B. Yard said:


> Also, I'm not sure what the issue is with 'bloat' in an eBook file?
> 
> As long as it looks and functions correctly on user devices and has the correct KENPC, I'm not sure of the issue?


A lot of extraneous code increases the file size - for KDP, if you're on the 70% royalty rate, they also take a delivery fee based on the file size.


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

555aaa said:


> Is anyone generating EPUB3 books instead of EPUB2?


The iBooks file that Vellum generates is EPUB3. (Brad at Vellum will jump in here and tell me if I'm wrong.) But you don't need EPUB3 to submit to Apple. EPUB2 works fine. Nor do you need to use iBooks Author to make your books there (contrary to that rumor repeatedly spread by Apple bashers).


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

I'm a Vellum convert.

Well, not completely. Half of my older titles are still Calibre/HTML files. Need to get round to updating everything someday.


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Bob Stewart said:


> If you had trouble [with Calibre] before, you might try the newest version. It definitely works more smoothly than the one I started with a couple years ago.


I agree. If you have a well-crafted DOCX file, from whatever word processor you like to use (that will export DOCX), in which you have used Paragraph Styles correctly, Calibre will create a perfectly usable EPUB file that you can upload to KDP. (KDP no longer recommends MOBI uploads.) Calibre will even add the Visible (HTML) Table of Contents that Amazon recommends, and it will add it either at the back or the front of the book, your choice.

The EPUB will also validate correctly, which is what is required for iBooks and some other retailers.

One online validator is here:

http://validator.idpf.org

All that being said, it _is_ possible to fiddle with your DOCX file so much that Calibre cannot make a valid EPUB. It will work for KDP but not for Apple. If that happens to you (I have succeeded in doing it in tests), fix your DOCX file. Don't blame Calibre. It's a great program.


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## cheriereich (Feb 12, 2011)

I use Word, upload the docx to Jutoh, and make minor tweaks in Sigil. To me, Jutoh has been well worth the money.


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## L.B (Apr 15, 2015)

Anma Natsu said:


> A lot of extraneous code increases the file size - for KDP, if you're on the 70% royalty rate, they also take a delivery fee based on the file size.


The impact on the file size would be absolutely tiny though. My delivery costs are 5c using Jutoh. Using other methods they were no different.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

B. Yard said:


> The impact on the file size would be absolutely tiny though. My delivery costs are 5c using Jutoh. Using other methods they were no different.


The problem is that ereaders are not the fastest beasts in the world. Jutoh creates a Style.CSS that contains every format type you have not deleted from the project, e.g., it includes the style entries for formats you cannot use on an epub such as MP3 Only and mobi Only. Standard epub files are mostly

text of paragraph

. Jutoh manages to get a Word like drop-down styles list by turning even the normal style into an html class. So each and every normal paragraph starts something like

. If you alter anything manually you get something like paragraph text. Most ereaders will function, but why use a bloated file if you know how to create proper ones? KENPC does not do well from Jutoh, maybe KDP don't like the fact that no paragraphs are

and suspect something dodgy is going on, rather it just being something Jutoh going on.


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## Brad West (May 21, 2014)

Word Fan said:


> The iBooks file that Vellum generates is EPUB3. (Brad at Vellum will jump in here and tell me if I'm wrong.)


You're right! Vellum generates a specialized file for each store, and uses EPUB3 if the store supports it. iBooks, Kobo, and Google Play get EPUB3. Nook and Generic EPUB (for Smashwords/D2D) get EPUB2.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Anyone care to share their settings for Calibre ?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I just upload a cleanly formatted doc file to each ebook store that will let me and use Draft2Digital for the rest.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

You need an "Other" category in your poll. As of right now I'd still say I export from WP to html, clean up the html, and use Mobi Creator to create the mobi. When I uploaded to the epub places, I'd convert the mobi to epub via Calibre, but my books are all exclusive with Amazon now. Yes, I did a toc.ncx for the mobi.

Starting with my next book that will change as I now have a Mac and Vellum.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Added "Other" as a choice.


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

> And with inCopy, you can sync the e-book text body to the print book.


Oh my gosh, I had no idea that there was this capability. I use Indesign CC, and it doesn't support the Kindle plugin. I've been thinking about just using the EPUB capability and converting to .mobi via the Kindle Previewer. Does anybody know if this works well?

Back to inCopy. Nothing annoys me more than having to reformat the paperback after edits and then having to go back and redo the ebook. Once you split to paper/ebook, it is so annoying doing edits. This sounds like an awesome solution.

Someone please tell me that Indesign CC epub handling is very nice. Please.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

jakedfw said:


> Someone please tell me that Indesign CC epub handling is very nice. Please.


My one and never again experience of exporting to epub from InDesign CC resulted in an epub that would not validate, even at D2D. This included a stylesheet that added lineheight: 1.2em, which will see you punished on KENPC if you don't delete it. Like Jutoh they convert their document styles to html classes and the character formatting they insist yo do for your paperback then comes out as span spam in the epub e.g., Manchester Evening News instead of Manchester Evening News. You could clean it up with find and replace in Sigil (just as you can clean up Jutoh or Calibre), but I'll stick with Sigil despite its lack of a British spellcheck.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Anyone care to share their settings for Calibre ?


Defaults. Most actual formatting--line height, font size for headers, indent--are done in Word.


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## Gessert Books (Apr 20, 2015)

jakedfw said:


> Oh my gosh, I had no idea that there was this capability. I use Indesign CC, and it doesn't support the Kindle plugin. I've been thinking about just using the EPUB capability and converting to .mobi via the Kindle Previewer. Does anybody know if this works well?
> 
> Back to inCopy. Nothing annoys me more than having to reformat the paperback after edits and then having to go back and redo the ebook. Once you split to paper/ebook, it is so annoying doing edits. This sounds like an awesome solution.
> 
> Someone please tell me that Indesign CC epub handling is very nice. Please.


I'm sorry, but it's not. It outputs some pretty bulky code that is really unpleasant to edit afterward (and you'll need to).


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

C. Gockel said:


> I'm wondering if I take my Open Office file, convert it to HTML, clean that up in Dreamweaver and then load up into Jutoh if that will fix the bloat issue?


No that will put your bloat back in! If you're already an HTML jockey, and it sounds like you are, and you just want to be able to create the epub files like ncx, then you might want to try this path: Import your OpenOffice file into Atlantis Word Processor (I _think_ it supports it)-->export as epub-->open in Sigil and use a combo of Sigil and Dreamweaver to do your cleanup.

I don't know if it was the quirk of the first epub file I used (from Scrivener) or not, but I found that if I took my untouched .epub and changed the extension to .zip and unpacked it, it had a different file structure than what you want. So my workaround is to open my raw .epub in Sigil, make some small change to the file (I usually insert my common CSS styles into the stylesheet), save it, then change the file extension and unzip and work in Dreamweaver to do the heavy lifting. The file layout then stays consistent. When I'm done in DW, I rezip it, change the extension back to .epub, open it in Sigil and do the rest of the styling I want, etc..... I upload this epub to KDP and only create a mobi to use on ARe and for giveaways (created using Kindle Previewer)

ETA: Word of caution when in DW--don't change the name of any files there, or use it to pull in your images and make calls to it, you're just adding more work for yourself in a bit. Wait until you're back in Sigil, as it will automatically change those names in the content.opf and ncx files for you. And do you asset management there too (importing files like images)


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

AngelaQuarles said:


> No that will put your bloat back in! If you're already an HTML jockey, and it sounds like you are, and you just want to be able to create the epub files like ncx, then you might want to try this path: Import your OpenOffice file into Atlantis Word Processor (I _think_ it supports it)-->export as epub-->open in Sigil and use a combo of Sigil and Dreamweaver to do your cleanup.


This is a redundant step. Sigil creates all the required files (opf, ncx, etc) so if you are using Sigil there is no need go elsewhere. Sigil also has wonderful search and replace to speed up the cleanup.


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## AngelaQuarles (Jun 22, 2014)

Mercia McMahon said:


> This is a redundant step. Sigil creates all the required files (opf, ncx, etc) so if you are using Sigil there is no need go elsewhere. Sigil also has wonderful search and replace to speed up the cleanup.


I know, but I like how DW autocloses my tags when I start typng, and auto fills in some HTML code. For instance, once you type in class it conveniently gives you a drop down of all your classes and will fill that in. Plus I can have it open, and the previous book in the series open in Sigil for some quick cutting and pasting of styling that is shared. If I tried to do that in Sigil I'd have to keep opening and closing between the two files. On the search and replace I like being able to do a Find and have it list all the files it finds it in....


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## WRPursche (Feb 18, 2011)

I write in word, save it as a filtered web page, do a really quick cleanup of the html (mostly just checking that no fonts inadvertently got put in), and then use kindlegen. I'm able to go from word to a very nice mobi in less than 5 minutes, with a TOC and everything. I find this approach really easy and I didn't have to learn any new software.

However, I only sell through amazon, so I don't need epub versions for other vendors.


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

I've down loaded Kindlegen but can't figure out how to use it


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

CASD57 said:


> I've down loaded Kindlegen but can't figure out how to use it


Don't try. It's an app for programmers. Download the Kindle Previewer and use it. It uses the same KindleGen to make a book but with a nice interface on it.


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## WRPursche (Feb 18, 2011)

I agree you can use the kindle previewer. But if you want to use it, kindlegen is incredibly easy to use. Just go to a command prompt (the DOS prompt through windows) and type:

kindlegen FILENAME.HTML 

That's it. You get a mobi file that has both the old and new (KF format.

If you type:
kindlegen FILENAME.HTML -c1 -verbose

It also compresses the file to save some size (that's the 'c') and 'verbose' also gives you detail on what kindlegen is doing. For example, it tells you if you have errors anywhere, like a missing cover, or problems in the html.

If you have created an OPF file instead, you can kindlegen the OPF file instead.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2015)

CASD57 said:


> I've down loaded Kindlegen but can't figure out how to use it


It's a command line program. Put the folder "kindlegen" into your home folder, put the epub file you want to convert onto the desktop, then open a command line prompt, navigate to the desktop, and run the program. For me (Ubuntu 14.04), it looks something like this:



> :~$ cd ~/Desktop
> :~/Desktop$ ~/kindlegen/kindlegen example.epub


There are a series of options you can append on the second line. These are:

-c0: no compression.
-c1: standard DOC compression.
-c2: kindle huffdic compression.
-o <file name>: specifies the output file name (created in same directory as input file).
-verbose: provides more information about the ebook conversion.
-western: force build of Windows-1252 book.
-releasenotes: display release notes.
-gif: all jpegs are converted to gifs.
-locale <locale option>: displays messages in specified language:
en: English
de: German
fr: French
it: Italian
es: Spanish
zh: Chinese
ja: Japanese
pt: Portuguese
ru: Russian
nl: Dutch

There's another option that saves the log as a text file, but it's been ages since I did that and I've forgotten the command.

Basically, if you just run "kindlegen/kindlegen example.epub" the basic defaults will convert your epub into a usable mobi file. But since mobi is proprietary to Amazon and KDP allows you to upload plain vanilla epubs, there's really no point in using kindlegen except for your own personal use (under the EULA, you are not allowed to sell a kindlegen-created mobi on a third-party site without a special license).

The other reason to get kindlegen is for another program like Kindle Previewer to use it. But where's the fun in that?


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Thanks...


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm using CCS6 Indesign and it's sooo frustrating. My print looks awesome, the epub export looks good...but mobi is just not happening...Trying to convert using calibre just hangs at 47%. 

Suggestions on how to handle ebooks when using Indesign? I do use styles on everything.


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## Gessert Books (Apr 20, 2015)

elizafaith13 said:


> I'm using CCS6 Indesign and it's sooo frustrating. My print looks awesome, the epub export looks good...but mobi is just not happening...Trying to convert using calibre just hangs at 47%.
> 
> Suggestions on how to handle ebooks when using Indesign? I do use styles on everything.


InDesign's ePub export is a bit messy under the hood. If you gotta use InDesign for the ebook, and the mobi conversion is choking in Calibre, you might try doing the mobi conversion using Kindlegen or Kindle Previewer.

I think it's usually best to build the ebook as a separate process though, rather than an additional output format of the print version.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

elizafaith13 said:


> Suggestions on how to handle ebooks when using Indesign? I do use styles on everything.


Um, don't? I don't know how the CC versions of InDesign handle it, but when I upgraded to InDesign CS6 (from CS3), I was eager to use the EPUB export option, figuring it would make things easier.

Yeah, no. It just added a bunch of extraneous code that made it harder to work with.

So, I stuck with my original method of using Dreamweaver to do the HTML and then running it through KindleGen before uploading to Amazon.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

I bought Vellum. I now produce in GoogleDocs->Download to Open Office and have editors review it as a Doc file->Upload to Google Docs and download Docx.

I have a couple box sets I want to do, and Vellum was super easy for Archangel Down. It also produced very lean code and I'm getting excellent KNP count. It was pricey ... but so is my time.


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## suliabryon (May 18, 2009)

C. Gockel said:


> I bought Vellum. I now produce in GoogleDocs->Download to Open Office and have editors review it as a Doc file->Upload to Google Docs and download Docx.
> 
> I have a couple box sets I want to do, and Vellum was super easy for Archangel Down. It also produced very lean code and I'm getting excellent KNP count. It was pricey ... but so is my time.


I just picked up Vellum, and was amazed at how easy it was, and how beautiful the finished product. Sure, it has limited bells and whistles, but in the end it does what it needs to, produces something high in quality, and as you said, in about 15 minutes.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

C. Gockel said:


> It also produced very lean code and I'm getting excellent KNP count.


I recently bought Vellum but haven't used it for anything to upload yet. Thanks for the above info because I've been worried about it. Have even considered doing my next project by creating the ebook the way I've been using (Word Perfect to html, clean up html, use Mobi Creator to create mobi), finding out the KENPC, then redoing with Vellum and comparing.


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

phillipgessert said:


> InDesign's ePub export is a bit messy under the hood. If you gotta use InDesign for the ebook, and the mobi conversion is choking in Calibre, you might try doing the mobi conversion using Kindlegen or Kindle Previewer.
> 
> I think it's usually best to build the ebook as a separate process though, rather than an additional output format of the print version.


thanks. My print looks awesome, and I LOVE using Indesign to format.

Would you recommend building the epub in Word instead of trying to export a workable file from Indesign?


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> Um, don't? I don't know how the CC versions of InDesign handle it, but when I upgraded to InDesign CS6 (from CS3), I was eager to use the EPUB export option, figuring it would make things easier.
> 
> Yeah, no. It just added a bunch of extraneous code that made it harder to work with.
> 
> So, I stuck with my original method of using Dreamweaver to do the HTML and then running it through KindleGen before uploading to Amazon.


Before I started using Indesign, I used plain old word. I wish my ebook could look as pretty as my print version...

The epub export from CC seems to work fine. Everything flows and works well in the previewer. i just can't seem to figure out a way to get the mobi file to work. Anyway I try to convert (even when exporting as html ect) it all looks wonky.


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## Gessert Books (Apr 20, 2015)

elizafaith13 said:


> thanks. My print looks awesome, and I LOVE using Indesign to format.
> 
> Would you recommend building the epub in Word instead of trying to export a workable file from Indesign?


Yeah, InDesign is great for print; not so much for ebook. I usually pull (reasonably) clean HTML from the Word file, then tune the HTML/CSS and assemble into the ePub bundle using Sigil. Then I generate the MOBI with Kindlegen.

That said though, I've never run into any problems converting an InDesign-generated ePub into a MOBI. When you export the ePub from InDesign, are you choosing the reflowable option?


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

I've been using Scrivener, but I'm moving to using TextWrangler + some shell scripts for manual creation of EPUBs & its conversion to MOBI (via Kindlegen script). I haven't yet decided how I'm gonna do PDFs (for e-book & print), but it'll probably be MS Word.


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

phillipgessert said:


> Yeah, InDesign is great for print; not so much for ebook. I usually pull (reasonably) clean HTML from the Word file, then tune the HTML/CSS and assemble into the ePub bundle using Sigil. Then I generate the MOBI with Kindlegen.
> 
> That said though, I've never run into any problems converting an InDesign-generated ePub into a MOBI. When you export the ePub from InDesign, are you choosing the reflowable option?


For some strange reason, when I export as reflowable my chapter images disappear. I also have an embedded font, but that's showing in Calibre. My chapter images only show when I export as fixed--that's what I've been trying to convert in Calibre at it hangs at 47%, even after 24hrs.


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## Gessert Books (Apr 20, 2015)

elizafaith13 said:


> For some strange reason, when I export as reflowable my chapter images disappear. I also have an embedded font, but that's showing in Calibre. My chapter images only show when I export as fixed--that's what I've been trying to convert in Calibre at it hangs at 47%, even after 24hrs.


I bet this is the issue. For what it's worth, for most books, folks won't like the fixed format anyway. If it were me, I'd output it as reflowable, and re-add the chapter images to the ePub afterward. I haven't used Calibre much for editing ePubs, but I bet you can do it from there. And after that, the MOBI conversion should go more smoothly.

Fixed-layout should mainly be used for magazine-style or especially image-heavy or structurally complex ebooks, for novels and stuff people will expect reflowable (and will be annoyed if it's not).


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## Gina Black (Mar 15, 2011)

I write in Scrivener. Export as epub to Sigil. Clean up and make pretty in Sigil. Upload the ePub to Amazon. I don't make a mobi file. If I want one, I use the one from the previewer at Amazon.


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

phillipgessert said:


> I bet this is the issue. For what it's worth, for most books, folks won't like the fixed format anyway. If it were me, I'd output it as reflowable, and re-add the chapter images to the ePub afterward. I haven't used Calibre much for editing ePubs, but I bet you can do it from there. And after that, the MOBI conversion should go more smoothly.
> 
> Fixed-layout should mainly be used for magazine-style or especially image-heavy or structurally complex ebooks, for novels and stuff people will expect reflowable (and will be annoyed if it's not).


I finally figured it out! After lot's of research and trial and error, I had to anchor the image a certain way in order for it to stay fixed. Now the mobi conversion works. PHEW!

My only issue now is using an embedded font with Mobi...

thanks for all the advice folks!


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## Lewis Mills (Sep 30, 2015)

> My only issue now is using an embedded font with Mobi...


Putting an embedded font into .mobi isn't hard. But not into the Body text, Amazon strongly advise against this. For Chapter Headings, specialised fonts (math formulae for instance), etc. they generally say: yeah, go nuts.


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

Lewis Mills said:


> Putting an embedded font into .mobi isn't hard. But not into the Body text, Amazon strongly advise against this. For Chapter Headings, specialised fonts (math formulae for instance), etc. they generally say: yeah, go nuts.


I used a special font for the dropcap. I read last night that Mobi won't accept TRue Type, only Opentype--waiting for our cover artist to send. Once I have that, I'm hoping I can add it through calibre and everything will work.

It would be so much easier if Amazon just switched to epub.


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## Lewis Mills (Sep 30, 2015)

> I used a special font for the dropcap. I read last night that Mobi won't accept TRue Type, only Opentype--waiting for our cover artist to send. Once I have that, I'm hoping I can add it through calibre and everything will work.


Ah, now that might be a problem. Unless an image, Amazon like to have dropcaps the same as body text.


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

elizafaith13 said:


> It would be so much easier if Amazon just switched to epub.


Amazon KDP no longer recommends MOBI for uploads. They requests straight HTML or EPUB, which they will then convert to their own "Kindle Format X." (Several of us code people assume that they mean "Ten" and have decided to just go there straight from KF8, skipping 9 altogether. Maybe they are using "X" to mean "mysterious and unknowable.")

We have tested both EPUB2 and EPUB3 at KDP and have had great results with both. We did embedded fonts, drop caps, images, all sorts of stuff.



Lewis Mills said:


> Amazon like to have dropcaps the same as body text.


Not true, as shown by the very successful and gorgeous drop caps that the clever people at Vellum produce by using a different font. It's all in knowing how to code it correctly.


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## elizafaith13 (Sep 22, 2014)

Word Fan said:


> We have tested both EPUB2 and EPUB3 at KDP and have had great results with both. We did embedded fonts, drop caps, images, all sorts of stuff.


I did see that when I used Kindlegen on my computer, the only conversion issue I had was with the embedded font which is TRueType. Does it have to be Openfont?

I definitely need to learn coding. Right now, I use Indesign, and I'm just getting all the kinks out of that.


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## Lewis Mills (Sep 30, 2015)

> Not true, as shown by the very successful and gorgeous drop caps that the clever people at Vellum produce by using a different font. It's all in knowing how to code it correctly.


Oh yeah, I'd forgotten all about Vellum. But I'm a Windows exclusive designer and seeing as it's OS X only...


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

elizafaith13 said:


> I used a special font for the dropcap. I read last night that Mobi won't accept TRue Type, only Opentype--waiting for our cover artist to send. Once I have that, I'm hoping I can add it through calibre and everything will work.
> 
> It would be so much easier if Amazon just switched to epub.


0) I'm with you there. Wouldn't that be nice if there were actually standards that are standards?

1) When InDesign embeds a font for exporting, it "encrypts" (obfuscates) it in the Adobe way, which is a way that Amazon has decided it won't support, even though it is a part of the standard. The embedded fonts should not be encrypted for Amazon. You know, some devices are going to ignore your embedded font anyway, but you can code in a fallback with a different style by using the media selector. Does Vellum do that for you?

2) If you are specifying fixed layout in your design, then you can't sell to readers with the older, non-Fire Kindles. So you're automatically cutting off a big part of your audience. I don't know how much but I'd guess at least half.


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## Guy Antibes (Jun 3, 2015)

I draft in Scrivener and then go to MSWord to create my master for epubs. For Amazon, the Word file is the one I submit with a TOC.  If I go ePub, I use Jutoh, but I find that I don't have to even do that.  I use InDesign for my PDF for Createspace and MSWord for direct injection into the kindle world.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

I've used Scrivener for my mobis. No problems as yet. Comes out as a nice, clean file that seems to work well with Amazon's upload.


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## Brad West (May 21, 2014)

555aaa said:


> 1) When InDesign embeds a font for exporting, it "encrypts" (obfuscates) it in the Adobe way, which is a way that Amazon has decided it won't support, even though it is a part of the standard. The embedded fonts should not be encrypted for Amazon. You know, some devices are going to ignore your embedded font anyway, but you can code in a fallback with a different style by using the media selector. Does Vellum do that for you?


Vellum uses fonts with licenses that allow for embedding without being obfuscated, so they are supported on Kindle. Vellum will declare suitable fallbacks for good measure, but in practice, if a device ignores the specified font, those fallbacks are typically ignored as well. The behavior here varies per Kindle device/app: Kindle Fire and the apps for iOS and Android maintain the embedded font used for drop caps even as the reader changes their preferred font for the body. eInk devices, unfortunately, only use the specified font for drop caps as long as Publisher Font is enabled.


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## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

Brad West said:


> Vellum uses fonts with licenses that allow for embedding without being obfuscated, so they are supported on Kindle. Vellum will declare suitable fallbacks for good measure, but in practice, if a device ignores the specified font, those fallbacks are typically ignored as well. The behavior here varies per Kindle device/app: Kindle Fire and the apps for iOS and Android maintain the embedded font used for drop caps even as the reader changes their preferred font for the body. eInk devices, unfortunately, only use the specified font for drop caps as long as Publisher Font is enabled.


Thanks Brad. I meant media query (@media) which allows one type of styling for KF8 and a different for e-ink devices.


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## Brad West (May 21, 2014)

555aaa said:


> Thanks Brad. I meant media query (@media) which allows one type of styling for KF8 and a different for e-ink devices.


Ah, yes. Vellum does use media queries to state that only devices that can handle KF8 should get drop caps (there's no way to make them work with mobi7 formatting). This does, however, include several e-ink readers: the Voyage, Paperwhite, and everything back to the Keyboard can all display KF8.


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## George Donnelly (Mar 5, 2012)

Scrivener > HTML > kindlegen, on a mac.


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## Tony_A20 (Dec 8, 2011)

I handcraft books using HTML & CSS, and I use Kindlegen to convert everything to a .mobi file to upload to KDP.

I use kindlegen because it's a command line tool that takes seconds to build a complete e-book with one command line:

C:\ kindlegen\ kindlegen.exe mybook.opf -o mykindlebook.mobi -verbose > kindleLog.txt 

This will run kindlegen using "mybook.opf" as input, and create an output file called "mykindlebook.mobi" in the e-book folder. It will also create a detailed log of the actions taken by kindlegen in a file called, kindleLog.txt. Kindlegen takes less than ten seconds to process an input file.

I can run through the business of editing my HTML manuscript, rebuilding the .mobi file,  proofing it using Kindle for PC, and republishing the modified e-book to KDP  in three minutes or less depending on how fast KDP is working. 

Building an EPUB is just as easy. The command line:

zip -DXr5 mybook.epub META-INF OEPBS

repackages a new .epub file for upload to D2D.

Besides having a quick turnaround time using Kindlegen, because I'm not dependent on third party applications that are never up to date with current standards, I can implement whatever capability Amazon has to offer as soon as it's available, and provide layout and format elements long before they're available in other e-book creation products.

Kindlegen.exe is a good and simple tool to use with a very shallow learning curve. The Kindlegen documentation completely covers everything in less than three pages.

Tony


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