# The LendInk Site Has been Suspended



## BarbaraSilkstone (Feb 18, 2010)

We just discovered a new site lending our books without our permission.
I can tell by which of my books it has listed that it's cherry-picking from the Kindle site not B&N. I don't use SW.
Check the site for your books.
I've written to KDP about this. I hope if enough of us complain they will act against this site.
This is theft... our pockets and KDP's. Plus they are stealing some Select books which puts us in violation of our Select agreement.

http://www.lendink.com/


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## Jeroen Steenbeeke (Feb 3, 2012)

The site itself doesn't appear to be distributing the books, merely serving as a matchmaking service between people who bought copies (and are able to lend them using the Kindle Lending version) and people who want to read a book.

As such, I don't think that "piracy lending site" is an accurate description, and the site is probably legal. In fact, given the way Kindle lending works, you can't access a copy you've lent to another person, so while technically a new copy is created, only 1 person has access to the novel for each purchase made (assuming DRM, which my books don't have out of principle).


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## Elmore Hammes (Jun 23, 2009)

You might want to read their FAQs, http://www.lendink.com/faq/

As Jeroen indicated, they aren't doing the lending, they are simply brokering the lending between interested readers. The actual lending is occurring through the Amazon and B&N official lending programs.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2012)

Ah, I'm famous! All six books of mine are up there.  But seriously, they're clearly stating that they're working along with Amazon and B&N. In your place I would consider it as a free advertisment platform, a secondary hub. This is not piracy.


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## JGreen20 (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't see this site as "pirate lending".

It's true that they are on the edge, but it says Loan and borrow *lendable* eBooks. As long as they're not breaking DRM it seems totally legal to me.

I hope KDP doesn't consider it a violation of Select agreement since you are not making your books available anywhere else and can't help it if others do. I think it's good to alert KDP about it. Or ask them.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

BarbaraSilkstone said:


> We just discovered a new site lending our books without our permission.
> I can tell by which of my books it has listed that it's cherry-picking from the Kindle site not B&N. I don't use SW.
> Check the site for your books.
> I've written to KDP about this. I hope if enough of us complain they will act against this site.
> ...


It'll be up to you, as copyright holder, to get the files taken down.


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## MH Sargent (Apr 8, 2010)

It has all my books, plus my one book on Select and offers people to borrow it. I will be curious as to what Amazon says about this.


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## BarbaraSilkstone (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

It is NOT piracy.

They are simply acting as a go-between to match up legitimate owners of lendable ebooks with readers who want to read those books. This is perhaps more sophisticated than simply lending it to your mom, but is within the bounds of legality, even if it's annoying.

If you publish through KDP (whether or not you are in Select) and are at the 70% royalty rate, then your ebooks are lendable. Period. End of discussion. If you're at the 35% royalty rate, then you can opt in to make them lendable.

This has NOTHING to do with the Kindle Owners Lending Library for Prime customers. This is not a "borrow" under KDP Select. This is merely lending a legitimately purchased Kindle copy.

Some Kindle books are lendable. When a purchaser buys a copy, they can choose to lend it to a friend. When they do this, the ebook temporarily disappears from their Kindle and appears on their friend's Kindle. After 2 weeks, it disappears from their friend's Kindle and reappears on theirs.

It is 100% legal, and it's what you agreed to in the terms of KDP.


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## BarbaraSilkstone (Feb 18, 2010)

Amanda,
Thank you. 
I appreciate the understanding.
Have a good day!


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Sounds like what Lendle and booklending have been doing for quite some time. Its legit. 

If your book is lendable, and it looks like most indy books are, then anyone that owns your book can loan out that book to another reader for 14 days. This can only be done once per book I own. I can't loan it out again to anyone else. 

I have been a member of the Lendle site, which works in a similar premise. I have loaned books and borrowed books. You always have to go through your account on Amazon with the email of the recipient to loan out the books, so its all proper procedure. 

There is no pirating involved.  These sites help people find each other with similar likes. 

Its all good


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

It's no different that what members of kindleboards are doing here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/board,62.0.html 

I understand that it looks scary when it initially looks like they are making your book available, but they aren't. Sign up on the site and try to borrow one of your books. You probably won't be able to - you'll only be able to if some other user signed up and said they have your book available to lend.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

Okay, I'm confused by this. When did B&N start lending books?


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

Mel Comley said:


> Okay, I'm confused by this. When did B&N start lending books?


They did lending before Amazon did. Book are lendable if they have the LendMe icon on their page - it's below the "buy now" button. Same rules as Amazon - can only lend a book once.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks, hadn't noticed that before! Doh!


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## VMendy (Jun 29, 2012)

Both my books are up there. But, doesn't someone with the book wanting to loan it have to place it there to be loaned? In that case, something is fishy, as my second book was just uploaded, and I've only sold 2 copies. I bought one and a high school friend bought one, and i know she didn't put it on this site. hmmm


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## Feenix (Jan 14, 2012)

MH Sargent said:


> It has all my books, plus my one book on Select and offers people to borrow it. I will be curious as to what Amazon says about this.


Here's is what Amazon told them last year:

http://lendink.com/blog/2011/06/29/letter-amazon/


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

Vickie Mendenhall said:


> Both my books are up there. But, doesn't someone with the book wanting to loan it have to place it there to be loaned? In that case, something is fishy, as my second book was just uploaded, and I've only sold 2 copies. I bought one and a high school friend bought one, and i know she didn't put it on this site. hmmm


Since your books are loanable via amazon, that would make them eligible. Likely they have people scouting for this. Heck, Amazon might even be reporting. Does it really bother you? I'd say it's good for business since you get your cut for lends.


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## William Peter Grasso (May 1, 2011)

And yet, books not eligible by Amazon rules for lending (such as both of mine) are offered on lendink.com.

Out of curiosity, my wife just tried to borrow one of them but got a "this site has a problem with its security certificate" warning when trying to sign in to lendink.com and proceeded no further.

I'm confused, too...  

WPG


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Feenix said:


> Here's is what Amazon told them last year:
> 
> http://lendink.com/blog/2011/06/29/letter-amazon/


That letter is about the Amazon Associates program (affiliate program). It was also canceled in Connecticut for tax purposes.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

William Peter Grasso said:


> And yet, books not eligible by Amazon rules for lending (such as both of mine) are offered on lendink.com.
> 
> Out of curiosity, my wife just tried to borrow one of them but got a "this site has a problem with its security certificate" warning when trying to sign in to lendink.com and proceeded no further.
> 
> ...


 Wanna join my club, William? ♥


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

William Peter Grasso said:


> And yet, books not eligible by Amazon rules for lending (such as both of mine) are offered on lendink.com.
> 
> Out of curiosity, my wife just tried to borrow one of them but got a "this site has a problem with its security certificate" warning when trying to sign in to lendink.com and proceeded no further.
> 
> ...


That is fishy. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

William Peter Grasso said:


> And yet, books not eligible by Amazon rules for lending (such as both of mine) are offered on lendink.com.
> 
> Out of curiosity, my wife just tried to borrow one of them but got a "this site has a problem with its security certificate" warning when trying to sign in to lendink.com and proceeded no further.
> 
> ...


I am curious. Were your books lendable at any point? And are they offered at the site or are they being asked for. The reason I asked is that on Lendle, a different site, I have many books listed I own going way back. Some of them might now not be lendable anymore, but I never bother to take them off as they could come up again. Also, I have books I am requesting there that are not currently lendable, but they might have been at one point, or might be again. I just leave them in the system as is.

Now I don't know how this lendink works, or what software they use.


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## William Peter Grasso (May 1, 2011)

Atunah said:


> I am curious. Were your books lendable at any point? And are they offered at the site or are they being asked for. The reason I asked is that on Lendle, a different site, I have many books listed I own going way back. Some of them might now not be lendable anymore, but I never bother to take them off as they could come up again. Also, I have books I am requesting there that are not currently lendable, but they might have been at one point, or might be again. I just leave them in the system as is.
> 
> Now I don't know how this lendink works, or what software they use.


I asked myself that same question. _East Wind Returns_ once was lendable under Amazon rules, and that ended about a year ago. _Unpunished_ has never been lendable.

I just posed the question to lendink via email. Film at 11 on that one...

WPG


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## William Peter Grasso (May 1, 2011)

Mel Comley said:


> Wanna join my club, William? ♥


Mel...I joined your club a long time ago 

WPG


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

William Peter Grasso said:


> I asked myself that same question. _East Wind Returns_ once was lendable under Amazon rules, and that ended about a year ago. _Unpunished_ has never been lendable.
> 
> I just posed the question to lendink via email. Film at 11 on that one...
> 
> WPG


For people who are wondering why their book is there if it isn't lendable, or was lendable but now isn't, the answer is simple - that site lists *every *book for sale at Amazon or B&N. Every. Book. Did you notice that they also have links to buy the books? They make money through an affiliate program, if people buy books through their links. So they list EVERY BOOK. In fact, their website might be dynamic in that it generates a page whenever someone searches for a certain book.

Security errors occur because the website has problems (programmer made mistakes).

I signed up and posted a book to share. I then searched on that book, found it, and said I wanted to borrow it. The site wasn't smart enough to know that I was the same person.... So what happens is the site sent me an email saying someone wanted to borrow my book, with "yes" and "no" links back to the site. When I clicked the "yes, I'll lend it" link, I simply got a page that said here's the name and email address of the person who wants to borrow your book.

So, that's it. No mystery, no confusion, nothing illegal. They post (or make pages as people search) for every possible book. Some aren't lendable. They're hoping you'll buy the books using their links, if you can't borrow it. End of story.


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## lynnfromthesouth (Jun 21, 2012)

Wow, I'm on there, too! 

But wait...why is it available on Nook? I'm in Select...


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> For people who are wondering why their book is there if it isn't lendable, or was lendable but now isn't, the answer is simple - that site lists *every *book for sale at Amazon or B&N. Every. Book. Did you notice that they also have links to buy the books? They make money through an affiliate program, if people buy books through their links. So they list EVERY BOOK. In fact, their website might be dynamic in that it generates a page whenever someone searches for a certain book.
> 
> Security errors occur because the website has problems (programmer made mistakes).
> 
> ...


Ah yes, that makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## William Peter Grasso (May 1, 2011)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> For people who are wondering why their book is there if it isn't lendable, or was lendable but now isn't, the answer is simple - that site lists *every *book for sale at Amazon or B&N. Every. Book. Did you notice that they also have links to buy the books? They make money through an affiliate program, if people buy books through their links. So they list EVERY BOOK. In fact, their website might be dynamic in that it generates a page whenever someone searches for a certain book.


Good. Every book. Thanks.

WPG


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

I have a friend writing to Amazon legal department, will let you know what they say.

That's what's worrying me one of my books is on there with a nook link and yet it's in select!


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

Not every book. under Hugh Howey (had to bring him into a thread, it's KB policy), only Wool 4 is listed.


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## William Peter Grasso (May 1, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> Not every book. under Hugh Howey (had to bring him into a thread, it's KB policy), only Wool 4 is listed.


Hmm... 

WPG


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> Not every book. under Hugh Howey (had to bring him into a thread, it's KB policy), only Wool 4 is listed.


adding, that it doesn't mean Eltanin Publishing's analysis isn't correct. According to Lendink's blog they recently scrubbed the site to remove any books that don't have lending activated for them. I don't know if the Wool series has lending active or not. Plus I think the site works on if someone offers it for lending (in addition to scrubbing amazon for lendable books)


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## NanObe (Aug 5, 2010)

I've not authorized any lending of my two small books. I'm also letting my publisher know that the one book I have up for pre order that is not even out it up there. This smells like three day old fish.


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## Randy Kadish (Feb 24, 2010)

How do we not allow our books to be available for lending?

I can't uncheck the option.

Randy


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> Not every book. under Hugh Howey (had to bring him into a thread, it's KB policy), only Wool 4 is listed.


Remember how I mentioned that their programmer made mistakes? Well, their search algorithms suck. I searched on "wool" and only found Wool 4. I searched on "wool 1" and found 1 and 2. I am fairly sure that if you search enough, in enough ways, you will find every book.

[quote author=Randy Kadish]
How do we not allow our books to be available for lending?

I can't uncheck the option.
[/quote]

Go to KDP, edit a title, go the 2nd page of data, and uncheck "Allow lending for this book". If you can't uncheck it, it's because your book is in Select the 70% royalty program and lendability is a requirement of Select the 70% royalty program.

[quote author=Mel Comley]
I have a friend writing to Amazon legal department, will let you know what they say.
[/quote]

Amazon's legal department will tell you that if you don't want your book to be lendable, then you shouldn't have checked the "Allow lending for this book" checkbox and that the site isn't doing anything illegal.

[quote author=Mel Comley]
That's what's worrying me one of my books is on there with a nook link and yet it's in select! 
[/quote]

Did you actually CLICK on the nook link? I did. It's an automated link to simply search the B&N site for your book. It didn't find it.

People, please stop freaking out. This is nothing. All books are there. All books have both buy and borrow links for both B&N and Amazon, regardless of whether you can buy or borrow that book from B&N or Amazon.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> Go to KDP, edit a title, go the 2nd page of data, and uncheck "Allow lending for this book". If you can't uncheck it, it's because your book is in Select and lendability is a requirement of Select.


It doesn't necessarily mean your title is in Select. It could also mean that your book is at the 70% royalty rate. Lendability is a requirement of 70% royalties. If you don't want your book lendable, then drop down to 35%.

If you chose 70% royalties, then you agreed to the terms, and that includes lendability. Failure to read the TOS is not an excuse.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> Remember how I mentioned that their programmer made mistakes? Well, their search algorithms suck. I searched on "wool" and only found Wool 4. I searched on "wool 1" and found 1 and 2. I am fairly sure that if you search enough, in enough ways, you will find every book.
> 
> Go to KDP, edit a title, go the 2nd page of data, and uncheck "Allow lending for this book". If you can't uncheck it, it's because your book is in Select and lendability is a requirement of Select.


This is not correct. Select lending is in-house. The other type of lending (what this site is leveraging) can only be opted out of if you use the 35% royalty. Lending-enabled is a requirement for all KDP 70% books.

You can see who is offering your book for lending.


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

Amanda Brice said:


> It doesn't necessarily mean your title is in Select. It could also mean that your book is at the 70% royalty rate. Lendability is a requirement of 70% royalties.


Thanks - I corrected my post. The book I tested it on happened to be both 35% _and _not in Select, and I guessed the wrong reason for why the other person couldn't uncheck it.

In short, if you can't uncheck it, it's because you selected some other option that requires lending. And yes, this lendability is totally different than the Kindle Owners Lending Library, Prime membership lending feature.


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## MH Sargent (Apr 8, 2010)

I wrote to KDP yesterday because one of my books is in Select and my understanding is that the book not be available anywhere else. Here is the reply:

Hello,

We have not authorized lendink.com to loan your book and have not provided your file to them.

If you've found your work available on an unauthorized website such as lendink.com, we suggest contacting that website to confirm your rights and request removal of your work. If you distribute your book through other sales channels, you might contact them to inquire as to whether they have authorized the inclusion of your book on lendink.com.

Our lending program allows a purchaser to lend a title once and does not allow the recipient to re-loan that book. For more information about Kindle book lending, check out this page:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200549320&#loan

I hope this helps. Thanks for using Amazon KDP.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

Barbara Silkstone received the same email.


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## MH Sargent (Apr 8, 2010)

I'll ride in the same boat as Barabara any old time.  

For whatever it's worth, it might be nice if Amazon contacted them, holding a big club mallet in their hand.


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## Mel Comley (Oct 13, 2010)

Agreed!


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

MH Sargent said:


> We have not authorized lendink.com to loan your book and have not provided your file to them.
> 
> If you've found your work available on an unauthorized website such as lendink.com, we suggest contacting that website to confirm your rights and request removal of your work. If you distribute your book through other sales channels, you might contact them to inquire as to whether they have authorized the inclusion of your book on lendink.com.
> 
> ...


This is a standard response from the customer service department, who is NOT the Legal deaprtment incidentally.

No, they did not authorize LendINK to lend books. HOWEVER, what LendINK is doing is the same as Lendle eBookFling or een the lending subforum right here on Kindleboards. It's no different than simply lending your book to your mom (which is 100% authorized through Amazon, btw).

This is just doing it on a bigger scale.

Amazon did not provide your file to LendINK because nobody has provided any files to LendINK. LendINK doesn't actually have any files. They are simply the clearninghouse for people to meet up with others who want to borrow legitimate copies that they ahve purchased.

Amazon touts the fact that many of their Kindle books are lendable. Not able to be borrowed through the Prime library, but that customers can lend their copy ONCE to someone for up to 14 days. During the time the book has been lent, it becomes unavilable on the owner's Kindle and can only be read on the borrower's Lindle. At the end of 14 days, it disappears from the borrower's Kindle and reappears on the owner's Kindle.

This is not rocket science.

LendINK does not have anyone's files. They are simply providing a place where subscribers who own your book can lend to subscribers who don't own it, but want to read it. Once each copy has been lent out once, it can't be lent again.

This is similar to library ebook lending, and is exactly how it worked when I lent my mom a copy of an ebook I bought.

The Amazon Customer Service department is giving a stock response. It would be a different response if you actually spoke to someone in Legal, as Legal understands that this type of set-up is, in fact, tactitly authorized by the fact that they have created a system to allow for lending. (And from a policy standpoint, this type of system would discourage piracy.)

*Disclaimer* I am an interllectual property attorney for a large federal government agency, but I am merely providing legal information, not legal advice. Nothing in my post should be construed as constituting an attorney-client relationship.


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## Randy Kadish (Feb 24, 2010)

What I'm curious about is why Amazon seems to be pushing "lending".
I would prefer not to have my books lendable.
Randy


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Amanda Brice said:


> This is a standard response from the customer service department, who is NOT the Legal deaprtment incidentally.
> 
> No, they did not authorize LendINK to lend books. HOWEVER, what LendINK is doing is the same as Lendle eBookFling or een the lending subforum right here on Kindleboards. It's no different than simply lending your book to your mom (which is 100% authorized through Amazon, btw).
> 
> ...


Quite simply, this.

Perhaps being someone with a technical background, I can add some additional insight.

They are nothing more or less a broker in the matter. You shouldn't deduce that by having a particular book listed (yours or otherwise), they are saying that this book is lend-able. Well.... Perhaps they could use a nice scrub on their data, but, more on that in a moment.

They connect people that have books to be borrowed and with people that want the said books.

To further that point, a majority of their income (prior to the affiliate relation issues due to tax matters) would come in the form of affiliate fees. When you click a link with a "tag" in it, it associates that link with the site that you clicked from. If there is a sale, and the item is not free, there is a VERY small profit to be made. How? Perhaps you had a desire for a lawnmower in addition to that book. The commission is paid on the lawn mower. Nothing on the freebie.

Second, as for the expired certificate (which gives you the "SECURE" in SecureSockectLayer (SSL))... It looks like they need to renew it. That's that. They let it lapse. It expired on 6/8/2012 9:45 AM.

I can appreciate how when everything stacked together looks a bit scary, but, it's really just a misunderstanding of the site. I hope this helps calm everyone a bit.

Essentially, it looks like amazon data was used via the Amazon Product API (as they make available to programmers which would include Kindle books of all makes and sizes and prices). In a sweep to build available Kindle books, they may have grabbed a bit too much. From the looks of blog posts found earlier in this thread, they tried to do a sweep on the books that were not available to be borrowed. From the sounds of things, that looks to be a work in process.

I can't stress this enough -- I'm *NOT* related or connected to the site in any way shape or form but thought perhaps I could bring some clarity to the situation as a tech geek.

Feel free to hit me with followup questions.

EDIT : expanded on some parts that I thought might be a bit too geek-ily explained.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

I permit lending of my books. The site also links to Amazon to buy it. Most people find new authors by borrowing their books either from a friend or from a library. I consider this nothing more than an extension of that.


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## Randy Kadish (Feb 24, 2010)

I just thinking that e-book lending, with all these lending sites, is a lot different than print book lending.

I believe that as these lending sites increase it could sink the e-book industry.

Randy


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## ecrotty (May 23, 2012)

Randy Kadish said:


> I just thinking that e-book lending, with all these lending sites, is a lot different than print book lending.
> 
> I believe that as these lending sites increase it could sink the e-book industry.
> 
> Randy


These guys aren't the "big dogs" in the space. I would peg http://lendle.me/ as one of the bigger sites that actively do this day in and day out.

They have been around for quite some time.

I'm not an author, so, I don't a clear understanding on the profit sharing and details of KDP borrows, but, from the sounds of things... there are incentives for you there as well.

I say explore at all avenues -- don't close digital doors! Perhaps try to come up with a method to put yourself in front of would-be borrowers and explain to them why when they borrow book one of a series (just using an example... im not sure this directly applies) they'll be hooked for 2-4... and you have a discount waiting when they are.

I think there's a lot more ways to promote Kindle books than is being taken advantage of today IMHO... but that's a bit of a different topic.

You'll find that lendle (which I believe once upon a time was "Lindle" which caused a bit of trouble with Amazon back in the day) has a terrific FAQ written in very plain english that explains the lending broker model : http://lendle.me/faq

EDIT : added the lendle FAQ + now wondering where my promo fee for lendle is today?  (also -- NOT affiliated with lendle for the record. also not an attorney. nor do i play one on tv. or on youtube. or anywhere else for that matter.)


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

Randy Kadish said:


> I just thinking that e-book lending, with all these lending sites, is a lot different than print book lending.
> 
> I believe that as these lending sites increase it could sink the e-book industry.
> 
> Randy


I don't see how lending could sink the ebook industry. You can only loan a book once.

That means for every loan, there HAS to be one purchase. Even if EVERY person who ever bought your book did loan it out, you would only have as many loans as you have purchases. Once they have all been loaned out once, someone else HAS to buy the book to loan it again.

And not everyone will loan a book. How many have I loaned? Only 3. I've purchased many more than that.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Victorine said:


> I don't see how lending could sink the ebook industry. You can only loan a book once.
> 
> That means for every loan, there HAS to be one purchase. Even if EVERY person who ever bought your book did loan it out, you would only have as many loans as you have purchases. Once they have all been loaned out once, someone else HAS to buy the book to loan it again.
> 
> And not everyone will loan a book. How many have I loaned? Only 3. I've purchased many more than that.


Totally agreed, Vicki. It's like saying that used bookstores and libraries sunk the print industry. Now, obviously print publishing is having problems, but I don't think we can put that on libraries. And at least with ebook lending each copy can only be lent once. With a print book, it can be lent over and over again until it falls apart.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Amazon allows purchasers to lend the book to other Kindle users. 
Some purchasers want to lend the book.
Some Kindle owners want to borrow the book.

Voila! Economic opportunity.

Third parties set up sites where lenders and borrowers can find each other.
Then they lend/borrow the book just like you and Aunt Harriet might.

No problem.

Don't like it under 70%? Pull the book or drop down to 35% and turn off lending
Don't like it under 35%? Turn off lending.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

Terrence, we don't want reasonable solutions and explanations. We want more paranoia and outrage that someone is taking away something that...that...well, heck, we don't even know what we have here anyway, or remember who gave it to us!

(Hint: It was Amazon...)


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

Just to see what was going on and how it worked, I registered for this site and posted 2 book to lend (books that we publish, that I also bought on my kindle account). I've lent both, and got another request to lend one. I wrote back to the person an apologized that I'd just lent it, but that the book would be free the next day (it's in Select). They were thrilled. I also gently said, "Hope you enjoy it! If you do, consider leaving a review."

Ta-da! I've introduced two reader to one of our authors, and another to our Oz series. Win-win. No problem. I'm off to post the rest of our books!

To reinforce the concept, I can now _never _lend those books again.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Unfortunately it looks like on Goodreads, people are using the "lending" section to instead just pirate books.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,122207.0.html


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## Jeroen Steenbeeke (Feb 3, 2012)

> This account has been suspended.
> Either the domain has been overused, or the reseller ran out of resources.


Nothing to do with any legal action, especially not from Amazon. This error message simply means that the site generated (way) more traffic than it paid for and its hosting provider shut it down until the owners of Lendink pay the extra bills.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

And please note that that response from Amazon (which has been spread all over the net), isn't answering the correct question. If you ask Amazon if Bob has the right to give away copies of your book, of course they'll say no.  That's not what Lendink is doing however.

Lendink is perfectly legit and lending books is not only allowed by Amazon, it is clearly spelled out in the TOS.  If an author or publisher doesn't want their book loaned, all they have to do is change their percentage to 35% and opt out.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I am getting the feeling a lot of authors don't really know how this lending thing works. I seen posts were some didn't even know their books were lendable, I see some confusing lending with prime lending library, some confuse lending with pirating. 

This is fighting the wrong fight. Its more like accusing a site of something they don't do. At least from what I can tell. 

I am waiting for someone to accuse public libraries of pirating


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Vickie Mendenhall said:


> Well, I'm just as confused as hell. The only thing that I had a problem with is the fact that my new book was on there before anyone bought it. Seems to me a book is there because someone wants to lend it.


Your books isn't on these sites. There is no file there. Its a link "to" the book in the Amazon store. It just means someone requested the book. I put up book requests on lendle, another site, all the time. Even if nobody is listed as having the book to offer now. It might come up later.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

And maybe this makes some of you feel a little better about these lending sites. I have tried many many books this way, usually the first in a series, or a new author. And I have ended up buying and reading more in that authors work because of that. 

I have actually loaned out way more books that I myself borrow. I just buy a lot. Most of the readers that I see around there are the same way. Voracious readers. You cant borrow books through lendle unless you also offer some. So you have to own books to offer in order to borrow. Keeps the balance. 
Again, I use the lendle site, which works on the same principle, just better executed. I read and buy a lot of books and I don't have anyone to share with. So this system helps brings readers together to share their love of reading. 

None of these type of sites actually have the book file. On lendle when I want to loan out a book, I click on it and it opens up the amazon site right at the loan this book and it fills in the email automatically. So everything has to happen through proper amazon channels. 
When I request, I get the email and then go through the amazon system that way. 

For every book sold, you have potentially 2 readers as the books can be loaned out once. So look at it as another way to get more readers.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Here's the thing.  (and this is directed to a general you, no one in particular)

If you're going to publish your books it means you're going into business.  If you go into business, it is your responsibility to find out what you're doing.  Read the Amazon TOS.  If you don't understand parts of it, come and post questions.  I was quite honestly appalled yesterday at all the fuss about this site and all the people (and even publishers) who had no idea how this works. 

Amazon has two different things related to "lends".

1.  Kindle Lending Library-  This is a program for Prime Members.  Prime Members pay an annual fee to Amazon that covers free shipping and 1 free book a month.  At the end of the month, the book comes off your Kindle and goes away.  Obviously, the major reason to be a Prime Member is related to free shipping if you do a lot of shopping online, but the free book is a nice bonus.  A month of free Prime comes with the purchase of your new Kindle too.  Authors get paid (about $2) for any books that are loaned through this program.  In order to make your book available for this loan, you have to join the Select program which includes an exclusive 90 day deal with Amazon.  Some authors rack up quite a tidy sum in these kind of borrows.

2.  Loaning a book- Anyone who buys an ebook through Amazon is allowed to lend it, one time, to anyone else with a Kindle.  It is a one time thing, for 14 days.  During that time, the book goes off your book list and onto the other persons.  There is only one copy of the book and it is only done one time.  Sites like Lendink hook up people with a book to loan with people that want to borrow it.  It makes no difference to an author whether I make my one book loan to my Aunt Mykie or some guy named Bob on the internet.  The author doesn't get paid for that, they never even know about it.  If Bob likes the book however, he might buy his own copy or buy other stuff I've written.  Lendink advertises every book on Amazon, so yes, your book will be "on" the site.  Lendlink makes money when someone decides not to wait for a book and instead clicks through to Amazon and buys one instead.  As an "Affiliate", Lendlink gets a payment for sales on Amazon that originate on their site.  There are thousands of Amazon Affiliates (another Amazon program you should read up on).

If an author doesn't want to loan a book, they can opt out.  They will not be able to get 70% payment, however if they opt out.  It seems completely ridiculous to me to give up half your profits every day on the off chance that a handful of your buyers might lend your book for a week, but that's your choice.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

AndreSanThomas said:


> 1. Kindle Lending Library- This is a program for Prime Members. Prime Members pay an annual fee to Amazon that covers free shipping and 1 free book a month. At the end of the month, the book comes off your Kindle and goes away. Obviously, the major reason to be a Prime Member is related to free shipping if you do a lot of shopping online, but the free book is a nice bonus. A month of free Prime comes with the purchase of your new Kindle too. Authors get paid (about $2) for any books that are loaned through this program. In order to make your book available for this loan, you have to join the Select program which includes an exclusive 90 day deal with Amazon. Some authors rack up quite a tidy sum in these kind of borrows.


Close. The Prime lending (aka KOLL - Kindle Owners Lending Library) means a prime member can borrow, at most, one book a month from those that are in the system. It's not ALL books. But there is no time limit. So if I borrow one in February and never return it until May, yeah, I've lost my 'borrows' for March and April. But the book won't be removed at the end of February without my say so. Contrariwise, if I borrow on the 1st of February, read it real quick and return it on the 3rd, I still can't borrow again until the 1st of March.

Very few join Prime (it costs $79 a year) ONLY for the one book a month -- that would make each borrowed book worth about $6.50. Rather, most have it for the automatic upgraded shipping -- you get 2 day delivery for no extra charge. There are also tons of videos -- movies and TV shows -- that can be streamed for free with a Prime Membership.

Which reminds me. . . .haven't gotten my August borrow yet -- got to do that.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks Ann!  Good catch on that.  I should have said the book goes away if your Prime Membership elapses.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

AndreSanThomas said:


> Thanks Ann! Good catch on that. I should have said the book goes away if your Prime Membership elapses.


I'm not even sure that would happen. . . . .but they certainly wouldn't let you borrow again.

FWIW, generally when you become a Prime member you basically authorize Amazon to renew your membership in a year. You can change your mind any time but, for example, I just get a notice in January that my prime membership is going to be renewed. If I don't want to, I can just tell them.

I suppose you could also set it up so that they'd have to remind you each year to renew, but, still, you'd get notices so it's not like it could lapse without you knowing.

Exception: if you buy a kindle Fire you get one month free (actually any time you join you get the first month free). I guess you could let that membership lapse. . . .though, again, I'm sure they'd send notices about actually purchasing it well in advance of it expiring. Actually, too, it's 30 days free. . .so, theoretically, you could get 2 or even 3 months of borrows. If you join on Jan 31, you can get the January borrow and the February borrow and, because February is short, you'd actually get to March before your 30 days is up so you'd get the March borrow too!

But, again, the KOLL is really just icing on the cake that is Prime. The main thing, for me anyway, is the expedited shipping at no extra charge.


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

A couple of my books was on LendInk, and can I admit it made me glow?*

What's that line from _Notting Hill_? "Well, anyone saying they want to go out with you is pretty great, right?"

*_ETA to add CYA Note: This is not a political statement. Simply a tiny little smile for that person out there, somewhere, who either wanted to borrow or saw fit to offer to lend my books._


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Vickie Mendenhall said:


> Sorry if this has been mentioned already..I just read this on the Kindle forum from a poster...
> http://www.lendink.com/
> "So, why has the site been closed?
> 
> ...


They didn't have the files. Whether the site will be up again I have no idea but what they did, as far as I can tell, wasn't anything more than what KB does with putting borrows together with lenders.

The Prime borrows have nothing to do with the fact that someone who buys your book can loan it to a friend for two weeks. People really confuse these two things.

Edit: All of the excitement over this site was totally misplaced and based entirely on misunderstands of what the site did and, even worse, on misunderstanding what our agreement is with Amazon. People ARE allowed to loan our books (or most of them). We seriously need to spend less time being paranoid and more understanding what our agreement is with Amazon.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

The goodreads lending group appears to be genuinely naughty. This? It looked like they didn't cross their T's and might have been underdelivering, but it doesn't appear to have been piracy.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I'm not even sure that would happen. . . . .but they certainly wouldn't let you borrow again.


Actually, this I know to be true. I got a new Kindle in March, used my free month of Prime to borrow Hunger Games which was the perfect length to read on my plane trip for work at the end of the month. When the 30 days ended it zapped away because my Prime had lapsed. Since I'm not a big Amazon shopper otherwise, I didn't renew (although if I was, it would totally be worth it for the shipping!)


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## StephenEngland (Nov 2, 2011)

Here we go again. . .


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## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

Atunah said:


> I am waiting for someone to accuse public libraries of pirating


I went to this fancy stone building in NYC that takes up a whole block where they're pirating a bunch of sculptures and paintings! 

How do they _get away_ with that??!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

AndreSanThomas said:


> Actually, this I know to be true. I got a new Kindle in March, used my free month of Prime to borrow Hunger Games which was the perfect length to read on my plane trip for work at the end of the month. When the 30 days ended it zapped away because my Prime had lapsed. Since I'm not a big Amazon shopper otherwise, I didn't renew (although if I was, it would totally be worth it for the shipping!)


Thanks for telling us that. Ann and I our confirmed Prime members predating, I believe, our Kindle ownership (at least that's true for me), and no future end in sight so we wouldn't know... 

Betsy


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## phil1861 (Dec 22, 2011)

Until this came up, I'd no idea anyone had taken advantage of creating communities based around using this oft ignored aspect of our KDP options. I'd known about this for quite some time, even before publishing as a friend of mine asked if I was going to enable it; she hated that certain books couldn't be loaned to her friends. 

I found my own works on this site and added that I had copies of my own books for loan and several others. I'm going to go and find these other sites to make sure my books are added for loan as well. This is just another avenue of discoverability. But I've been amused at the pack or lemming rush to go hyper over this site. And the fact that they are over their monthly or daily connections means they just got a huge boost in visits and accounts.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

John Blackport said:


> I went to this fancy stone building in NYC that takes up a whole block where they're pirating a bunch of sculptures and paintings!
> 
> How do they _get away_ with that??!


There are a number of fancy buildings in NYC where they promote the habit of pirating books and have for a century.

SHOCKING!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_York_Public_Library_May_2011.JPG


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I've decided to embrace word-of-mouth and encourage my readers to give copies of my books to their friends.

I'm working on the exact wording, but it'll go out on my new book. I'll suggest people share my book with friends, and I'll offer some suggestions for ways to support the author, such as buying one of my other books.

We live in a post-piracy, post-lending world and have to form our own strategies for making the best of it. Word of mouth is so important to book sales. I'd like to have my readers "force" copies onto all their friends, and then bug them every week, "So, did you read it? I want to talk about it with you!" (Or something like that.)


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## JodyWallace (Mar 29, 2011)

I hope their server is just overwhelmed. I'd feel bad if their website got yanked or if they got in any kind of trouble for doing something perfectly legit, simply because a bunch of authors didn't understand their own KDP contracts or how the site worked. I know tons of DMCA notices were being sent and complaints directed thither and yon.


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## eBooksHabit (Mar 5, 2012)

Yah, people truly need to understand their contracts and not freak out... seems to be happening more and more around here... people rushing to comment on someone's 1-star review... people freaking out about pirating (even when it's not pirating).

Glad there's a few voices of reason here.


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

Katie Elle said:


> Unfortunately it looks like on Goodreads, people are using the "lending" section to instead just pirate books.
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,122207.0.html


I'm afraid that's the risk you take by publishing anything. Not to say that it's right but it's going to happen. So you close yourself off from potential clients just because you're worried your book might be illegally lent?


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2012)

Aren't those sculptures in the stores ancient enough to be out of copyright?

If so, then anyone can sell copies.


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## KCHawkings (Jul 20, 2011)

Cg Brumby said:


> I noticed my work there and sent the site a Cease and Desist Notice, giving them 48 hours to remove my work or face prosecution. They were in breech of copyright and deserved to be shut down. Am I proud they have been shut down? Am I proud to have stood up for my legal rights as author? You betcha! If they were a legitimate site and had written consent from each and every author to display their work for free (forfeiting their royalty income as a result) then I doubt very much that the site would have suddenly disappeared overnight. I am tired of plagiarism, book piracy and cheap-*ss scum bags who won't part with a measly $2.99 or $4.99 to support authors and show respect for their hard work, not to mention the graphic artists, editors, photographers who also contributed to the birth of an author's ebook.
> 
> As clearly stated by Amazon's email reply, lendlink is NOT an authorized loaning site, and Amazon has not given them the right to do so. Any and all authors affected by this site should send lendink the same notice as did I, to Cease and Desist. For authors affected by this bump in the road, if you have not authorized the loaning of your book on a site, you have the right to sue these pirates till the end of time for lost royalties. Since ebooks NEVER go out of print, there is no need for them to be made available in loaning libraries or unauthorized sites to preserve them, like their cousins - printed books. The KDP program is optional for authors. You would know if your book is enrolled. KDP and Lendink are NOT the same.


*sigh*

Did you even bother to read the rest of this thread? Or your KDP contract for that matter? *They* didn't have your work on there and *they* did not lend your books.

This is not a loophole of any sort. It is very clearly written into the contract. If you don't want them to have the ability to lend then don't let them. It is completely up to you.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

KCHawkings said:


> This is not a loophole of any sort. It is very clearly written into the contract. If you don't want them to have the ability to lend then don't let them. It is completely up to you.


Though I agree on the whole, this is like saying, "just put your books on amazon for free to avoid this - it's completely up to you." Because earning 35% is something like that, as far as I'm concerned.

And yeah, okay, they are legal. Got it.


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## phil1861 (Dec 22, 2011)

C'mon people; so everyone going hysterical over this one site (minus the fact that there are other sites just like it out there) didn't know the terms of their agreement when they hit publish? Didn't see that little check box on the second page of the KDP process that says "Allow lending for this book?" 

If I own your book (or the license to it as it goes with eBooks) I can lend it to anyone; anyone. I don't have to know you to do it, I just need your email address. I can create an account on this site and lendle.me and announce that I own this book and it is availble for lending. Heck, I found that 22 people had already done this on lendle.me for my own book. 

Now, I will say there could be a big difference between the two sites as far as did lendink crawl for my book and automatically post it vs lendle.me allow me to post it, but the mechanics are the same. Neither site can lend my book to anyone; someone else has to do that.


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## Eltanin Publishing (Mar 24, 2011)

It is legit. It is legal. It is ethical. They do not "have your book". You think they do? Try to get it. I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote in this other thread *(really they should be merged - mods, can you do that?)*:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,122064.0.html 

<_Threads merged per request; post edited to reflect that. --Betsy_ >


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

There is a serious lack of reading comprehension going on here...still. Those that are still freaking about all of this should really take the time to reread what is being said on the site and by amazon. If you did you would see that this is a non-issue.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Bethany B. said:


> There is a serious lack of reading comprehension going on here...still. Those that are still freaking about all of this should really take the time to reread what is being said on the site and by amazon. If you did you would see that this is a non-issue.


Yeah that. I am curious about how those that are accusing a site of something they didn't do and are gleefully trying to take them down, how would they feel if their books were reported and suspended for something they didn't do. Wouldn't like that very much I guess.

Lending if done with sites like that is not only ethical, its legal and its encouraged. Otherwise there would be no lending feature. And again, if you don't want to have your books be loaned out to anyone, either drop the price to 99 cents or just remove them from Amazon. Problem solved. Be aware, Nook also has a lending feature.

Why this disdain for readers. We have been passing on our books for ages to others. Now we have a tiny slice of a lending feature, its a crippled one as its only once and not all books, and yet some don't even want us to do that.

There is a lot of react first, read later going on here.


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## JimC1946 (Aug 6, 2009)

The link is now returning this message:

_This account has been suspended.
Either the domain has been overused, or the reseller ran out of resources._


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## phil1861 (Dec 22, 2011)

This was answered in another thread here that due to the sudden publicity this site was getting they'd exponentially overstepped the bandwidth and connections they'd paid for.


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## StephenEngland (Nov 2, 2011)

And this author is taking credit for organizing the shutdown of the "pirate site". http://allonbooks-thekingdomofallon.blogspot.com/2012/08/pirate-site-sunk-by-united-broadside.html
When will people learn not to REACT? I'll expect them to come after the Kindle Boards next, all because we have that lending exchange thread. Sheer unadulterated hysteria. I hope LendInk makes a speedy recovery.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2012)

Bethany B. said:


> There is a serious lack of reading comprehension going on here...still.


Which is somewhat unforgiveable among people who are writing, publishing, and selling books.


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## Lendink (Aug 8, 2012)

Good Morning,

My name is Dale Porter and I am the owner of Lendink (or what's left of it). I can say without hesitation that Lendink was not a pirate site, we did not store, transfer, lend or publish any ebooks, period! All we did was attempt to provide a means for people that enjoy their ebooks to meet other like minded people and share their "lend" enabled ebooks. The lending process was completely handled on the Amazon or Barnes and Noble websites.

Lendink was operated solely by myself and operated the last couple of years with absolutely no income.

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet claiming that we hosted ebooks illegally, that Amazon did not allow us to lend ebooks, etc. Let me try to address some of those here.

*Amazon did not allow us to lend ebooks*. This is a 100% true statement and the fact of the matter is, Lendink did not nor did it ever attempt to lend ebooks. All we did was put person A in touch with person B and redirected A and B back to Amazon or Barnes and Nobles where the actual lending took place.

*Lendink was hosting ebooks illegally*. This statement is 100% false. We never hosted any ebooks on our servers. We attempted to dispell this rumor on our FAQ page and for those that actually read the page, it usually cleared up the misunderstanding. For those that did not read the page, all I can assume is that is simply doesn't matter at this point. No amount of explaination would have satisfied the vultures looming over head.

*The Lendink website is down, this is proof they were pirating ebooks*. Really, this is proof that we were pirating ebooks? The fact of the matter is that our host company was so overwhelmed with hate mail and threats of lawsuits that they felt they had no choice but to suspend the site. These hatefull people did nothing but harass and threaten Lendink and our host company to the point that it just didn't make sense to keep the site online. For those of you on this site that are patting yourself on the back for bringing Lendink down, shame on you. I only hope at this point that you see the same results with your books and your writing career.

*Amazon dropped Lendink as an Affiliate due to digital rights violations or new digital rights laws in California*. This is 100% false. Lendink is a California based company and as such, was cut off from earning money from sales when Amazon and the State of California disagreed over the collection of State Sales Tax. Amazon cut off all of their California affiliates from earning money via their affiliate program. It was not just Lendink. This only prevented us from earning money via Amazon. It did not however stop use from matching people for book lending.

I am simply a hard working guy that was trying to provide a legit service. Let me ask you all this, if I truley intended to use Lendink as a pirate site would I keep my contact information clearly associated with the site? Would I form an LLC and run the site as a business? Would I actually take the time to file for and receive a Federal Trademark for the site? These are not the actions of a person bent on stealing other persons intellectual property. The site had been negelected the past year or so and this was due to health issues related to my service connected injuries. Working a fulltime job to pay the bills and health issues just took their toll on me and unfortunately the site suffered. My plan was to ride out the Amazon vs. California Sales Tax dispute and then pick up when I was able to make some income from the sale of books. Sadly, it appears that my American Dream has been left as road kill at the hands of misguided individuals.

Dale


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Sorry about what happened Dale. I hope you find another way to get your site back up and running.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Dale,

welcome to KindleBoards.

Thanks for taking the time to post here.  There is a lot of misunderstanding of the "loan this book to anyone" process among Kindle authors, as evidenced by this thread.

Hopefully, our members will take advantage of your presence to learn a little more about your site.

Best,

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## Lisa J. Yarde (Jul 15, 2010)

Dale, I'm sorry to see things went this way with LendInk. Last year, watching the kerfufuffle between Lendle and Amazon, I assumed other indie authors understood that if you opt in at the 70% royalty, your books can be loaned through Amazon. From Facebook and posts here, that's clearly not the case. I have not used your site but having offered loans of Kindle books through Lendle, I'm familiar with your site's concept of connecting readers to borrow books. I hope you get your site back up soon.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I've been distracted by the Olympics and haven't kept up with this thread...let me respond to one item:



Chrystalla said:


> Yes, most books have enabled lending, so what these sites do is legal. The system wasn't meant for this, of course - just for people to lend between friends.


Actually, relatively few books (out of the well over 1000 Kindle books I own) are enabled for lending. And I think Amazon doesn't care to whom a book is loaned--what they want is to be able to hook others on more books and more use of the Kindle.

Here's what the "Loan this book to anyone you choose" link on one of my lendable books says:



> Loan this book
> Loan this book to anyone you choose. Complete the following and click Send now to loan your book. The recipient does not need a Kindle to accept this book. (Learn more)
> The publisher has set the following lending terms: this book can be loaned once for a duration of 14 days.


Really, folks....read the whole thread, lots of good information here amongst the hyperbole.

Betsy


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Eltanin Publishing said:


> It is legit. It is legal. It is ethical. They do not "have your book". You think they do? Try to get it. I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote in this other thread *(really they should be merged - mods, can you do that?)*:
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,122064.0.html


Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said they have the books.

Betsy, if all books which have 70% royalty have obligatory lending enabled, and many other authors choose it as well, I think most books should be lendable (is that even a word?).

As I said: it's legal. I understand it's a business, being amazon affiliates, that the company gets some money for this, which is fine. I think it's a new concept for many of us, who were so far only used to pirate sites which were illegal.

So maybe Dale shouldn't be so quick to judge authors either, and statements like this: "For those of you on this site that are patting yourself on the back for bringing Lendink down, shame on you. I only hope at this point that you see the same results with your books and your writing career." - should be avoided.

After all, these _are _our books the company is using to make whatever profit it's making (and as I understand it, drive sales to us as well, which is great).


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Chrystalla said:


> Betsy, if all books which have 70% royalty have obligatory lending enabled, and many other authors choose it as well, I think most books should be lendable (is that even a word?).


I can only tell you my experience. I read a fair number of self-published books, and not all of them have lending enabled. And relatively few of the trad-published ones do. I know when I've checked to see if I can loan a book for the Quasi-Official Book Klub Game, most do NOT have lending enabled. But I'll go through a larger sample of the books in my account to check, just out of curiosity.

And:


> Adj.	1.	lendable - available for lending; "lendable resources"
> Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.


 

Betsy


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I can only tell you my experience. I read a fair number of self-published books, and not all of them have lending enabled. And relatively few of the trad-published ones do. I know when I've checked to see if I can loan a book for the Quasi-Official Book Klub Game, most do NOT have lending enabled. But I'll go through a larger sample of the books in my account to check, just out of curiosity.
> 
> And:
> 
> ...


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

This is one of the stupider things I've seen lately. Dale, I'm really sorry that happened to you. The person up thread patting him/herself on the back so vigorously? I don't think I've ever seen someone so self-congratulatory for being business illiterate. Read your TOS, outraged ones. Sheesh.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

There are nearly 1.5 MILLION ebooks available from Amazon, most of which are NOT independently published through KDP/Select.  I dare say someone can figure out how to sort for it, but my experience has been, like Betsy's, that most of the books offered by traditional publishers do NOT have lending enabled.  Nor are they part of KOLL.  So, I do think it's fair to say that MOST books available on Amazon do NOT have lending enabled.

As to Dale's comment. . .there was, in fact, at least one author here who was taking credit for having reported this site.   The poster in question was in error as to his understanding of how the site was supposed to work; if I was Dale that post would be pretty hurtful.

Further, I agree with Betsy, that there is a LOT of misunderstanding as to what enrollment in 'Select' means and how lending works and how it differs from being part of the KOLL. A book can be lendable without being in Select.  It can be part of KOLL without being in Select.  It's just that Indie authors who ARE in Select agree to both as part of that enrollment.  But agreements with traditional publishers are completely different: they can chose lendable or not and KOLL or not for each book.  And, believe it or not, a lot of us purchase books from traditional publishers as well as independently published titles!

As to the LendInk site. . . I don't personally lend a lot. . . .but I have.  I'm not interested in such a clearing house, but many are.  It's a shame the site is down. . .Dale. . . .hope your health issues get sorted and you can get things up and running again!


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

My traditionally published books have lending enabled as far as I know - so maybe that's why I'm biased about that (I mean, that's why I think that most books have lending enabled).

In fact, two of my trad published books are on LendInk.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

As far as I understand it, LendInk crashed due to increased traffic, not complaints.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Chrystalla said:


> As far as I understand it, LendInk crashed due to increased traffic, not complaints.


Dales explained otherwise above.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Monique said:


> Dales explained otherwise above.


Yes, but that's what the message said when the site crashed. /shrug/


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2012)

Chrystalla said:


> As far as I understand it, LendInk crashed due to increased traffic, not complaints.


Of for the love of the gods, did you not read what Dale wrote?



> Really, this is proof that we were pirating ebooks? *The fact of the matter is that our host company was so overwhelmed with hate mail and threats of lawsuits that they felt they had no choice but to suspend the site*. These hatefull people did nothing but harass and threaten Lendink and our host company to the point that it just didn't make sense to keep the site online. For those of you on this site that are patting yourself on the back for bringing Lendink down, shame on you. I only hope at this point that you see the same results with your books and your writing career.


It wasn't a matter of exceeding bandwidth. The host was being served with Take-Down notices and cease-and-desist letters. Under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, they are required by law to take action on each notice. It sounds like they were getting so many they simply said "Screw it" and suspended the entire site instead of responding to each complaint individually.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2012)

Chrystalla said:


> Yes, but that's what the message said when the site crashed. /shrug/


*headbang* That is a generic message. What did you expect them to post as the message?



> Attention: We have recieved over one hundred take-down notices from authors who apparently can't read and don't realize this site is not pirating their books. Therefore we have decided to just screw the site owner instead of dealing with each illiterate moron individually.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Let's try to have a calm discussion, even when we disagree.  And not scare yet another new member off.

Thank you.

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> *headbang* That is a generic message. What did you expect them to post as the message?


Take a deep breath, Julie. That should do it.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Chrystalla said:


> Yes, but that's what the message said when the site crashed. /shrug/


I doubt the company has a stock "we received boundless baseless complaints and have removed this site to cover our tuchus" message to put up when sites go down.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

The majority of books on Amazon are not lendable. As I mostly buy and read trad published stuff, I don't see a lot of lendable books. I like to support publishers that do like Zebra (Kensington). None of the big 6 have lending enabled and very few of the other publishers do. 

So when I do buy books that are lending enabled, I like to be able to share those with folks that read what I read. I don't have any family or friends that read what I read, so services like LendInk and Lendle etc, provide that legal way to share those books under the rules.  

I am appalled at the lack of reading comprehension on this issue. And I don't blame Dale one bit for being very upset. He has done nothing wrong and I said it myself up thread, if those that tried to shut this legal site down would have that happen to their own books on Amazon, they sure wouldn't like it.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> *headbang*


Julie, take two of these and call me in the morning. 










Seriously, let's stay civil here. We've avoided threadlock for this long....

Betsy


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Dale has nothing to apologize for. He ran a perfectly legitimate site, that was brought down by false accusations. The people that helped bring it down were in the wrong.

The site exceeding its bandwidth looks like a denial of service attack.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Monique said:


> I doubt the company has a stock "we received boundless baseless complaints and have removed this site to cover our tuchus" message to put up when sites go down.


Thank you for explaining it to me nicely.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Monique said:


> I doubt the company has a stock "we received boundless baseless complaints and have removed this site to cover our tuchus" message to put up when sites go down.


Note to self: let Harvey know we should do this. ^


Also, I always wondered how to spell tuchus. I learn something every day on KindleBoards.

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Atunah said:


> So when I do buy books that are lending enabled, I like to be able to share those with folks that read what I read. I don't have any family or friends that read what I read, so services like LendInk and Lendle etc, provide that legal way to share those books under the rules.


I think what a lot of people also don't get is that once you've lent it once, you're done. You can't lend it again. which is why the books might be listed but not actually available -- it's lendable, but no one has it and wants to lend it -- maybe because they already did lend their copy once and can't again, or because they don't want to lend it until they've finished it first. The value of such sites, then, is that, with more members, there's more likelihood of finding someone that has a book you want to borrow.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I think what a lot of people also don't get is that once you've lent it once, you're done. You can't lend it again. which is why the books might be listed but not actually available -- it's lendable, but no one has it and wants to lend it -- maybe because they already did lend their copy once and can't again, or because they don't want to lend it until they've finished it first. The value of such sites, then, is that, with more members, there's more likelihood of finding someone that has a book you want to borrow.


For 14 days. Then it's lendable again. ( as far as I know. If I'm wrong, please be gentle  )


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Chrystalla said:


> For 14 days. Then it's lendable again. ( as far as I know. If I'm wrong, please be gentle  )


*gets out cattle prod.*

No. One time only.



Edit to add link and quote:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_rel_topic?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200549320



> Kindle books can be loaned to another reader for a period of 14 days. The borrower does not need to own a Kindle -- Kindle books can also be read using our free Kindle reading applications for PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone, BlackBerry, and Android devices. Not all books are lendable -- it is up to the publisher or rights holder to determine which titles are eligible for lending. The lender will not be able to read the book during the loan period. *Books can only be loaned once, and subscription content is not currently available for lending. *


Betsy


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I think what a lot of people also don't get is that once you've lent it once, you're done. You can't lend it again. which is why the books might be listed but not actually available -- it's lendable, but no one has it and wants to lend it -- maybe because they already did lend their copy once and can't again, or because they don't want to lend it until they've finished it first. The value of such sites, then, is that, with more members, there's more likelihood of finding someone that has a book you want to borrow.


Yep, I am on another site and I have had books I want to loan on the list for months, some have many folks asking for it so I am down the line. It doesn't cost me anything to let it sit there and way. Maybe I'll never get it, but I have actually bought books I got tired of waiting for. 
I have even books on my list that are not lendable as of now. I remember when it was first introduced, there were some big 6 books lendable, one of my first book that I got that way was a Lisa Kleypas Historical. That publisher stopped allowing after a few weeks, but I still have many of those books to offer, just in case. Heck, I put up every book I buy, even if they are not lendable. On the site I use it says if its lendable or not, but I like to have them all there just in case.

I just don't understand for how many times the lendable, select, prime lending differences have been explained, even in this thread, it still doesn't seem to get through. And I assumed that authors that upload their books would have to agree to some of those things, so how can one not know about it. *shrugs

I really hope Dale can figure out a way to get the site back up.


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> *gets out cattle prod.*
> 
> No. One time only.
> 
> ...


*stands corrected*


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Chrystalla said:


> *stands corrected*


Aww, you can go ahead and sit down...  No need to stand on ceremony.

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Aww, you can go ahead and sit down...  No need to stand on ceremony.
> 
> Betsy


But you poked her with a cattle prod. . .she might not be able to sit down for days!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But you poked her with a cattle prod. . .she might not be able to sit down for days!


I never touched her! It's a lie! It was just handy in case I needed it.

Betsy


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But you poked her with a cattle prod. . .she might not be able to sit down for days!


Ah. Serves me right. 

That's the thing you see: I read the rules and think I understand them, only to come to Kindleboards and realize I didn't understand anything. 

Ah well. At least here I learn.

*sits down gingerly*


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, to be fair. . . . Betsy and I have had a LOT of practice looking things up and explaining what things say. . .new people ask the same questions all the time!   At some point some of it finally sinks in!


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## ilamont (Jul 14, 2012)

Here's the relevant Amazon help page that describes the lending arrangement for Kindle Books:



> Kindle books can be loaned to another reader for a period of 14 days. The borrower does not need to own a Kindle -- Kindle books can also be read using our free Kindle reading applications for PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone, BlackBerry, and Android devices. Not all books are lendable -- it is up to the publisher or rights holder to determine which titles are eligible for lending. The lender will not be able to read the book during the loan period. Books can only be loaned once, and subscription content is not currently available for lending.


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## enolarayne (Aug 8, 2012)

phil1861 said:


> Until this came up, I'd no idea anyone had taken advantage of creating communities based around using this oft ignored aspect of our KDP options. I'd known about this for quite some time, even before publishing as a friend of mine asked if I was going to enable it; she hated that certain books couldn't be loaned to her friends.
> 
> I found my own works on this site and added that I had copies of my own books for loan and several others. I'm going to go and find these other sites to make sure my books are added for loan as well. This is just another avenue of discoverability. But I've been amused at the pack or lemming rush to go hyper over this site. And the fact that they are over their monthly or daily connections means they just got a huge boost in visits and accounts.


This is an example of an author I would seek out, not only because he took the time to use a little reading comprehension (something I find important in authors), but because of his admirable desire to utilize a system designed to be beneficial to both authors and readers. Kudos to you, sir.

See elsewhere in this thread for examples of authors whose books will never land in my own library. If any friends of mine happen to bring up the names, I'll make sure to point them to this thread, as well.


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

When the lending panic hit the author loops I'm on, I stayed rather silent, because I didn't know what it meant, or exactly how I felt (or should feel) about it. Not being any where near a popular author, I was actually quite pleased to find my books on LendInk, but I admit I was uneducated on the whole lending thing.

Now that I know more, I have no issues with lending. Lending/borrowing books have always been a great part of reading community, and I think it can do more good than harm to authors like me, since my name is so unknown. From what I saw, group panic made things seem much worse. I wish I had known more when the fit hit the shan, so I could have said something on the small loops to ameliorate the panic. Next time, I'll be more prepared, though.

(ETA: I should note that one of my publishers was particularly cool headed about this whole thing and made a pretty speedy effort to inform its authors that this was legal, possibly beneficial, and fine with them. That helped calm things down on that loop almost immediately, and I appreciated their position. At least one other of my publishers also sent out a note asking its writers to calm down, particularly in public, which I think also helped a bit.)

I also wish it wasn't authors who were behind this big push to bring down LendInk, since I hate it when things happen to make the "readers vs writers" thing look/feel worse.

So, in closing: Lend me, borrow me! I hope you enjoy!


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## ilamont (Jul 14, 2012)

I told Dale I was writing a blog post about this, and he agreed to answer a few additional questions. The post is here, with the Q&A at the bottom:

What happened to LendInk? The owner responds.


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## phil1861 (Dec 22, 2011)

anne_holly said:


> When the lending panic hit the author loops I'm on, I stayed rather silent, because I didn't know what it meant, or exactly how I felt (or should feel) about it. Not being any where near a popular author, I was actually quite pleased to find my books on LendInk, but I admit I was uneducated on the whole lending thing.
> 
> Now that I know more, I have no issues with lending. Lending/borrowing books have always been a great part of reading community, and I think it can do more good than harm to authors like me, since my name is so unknown. From what I saw, group panic made things seem much worse. I wish I had known more when the fit hit the shan, so I could have said something on the small loops to ameliorate the panic. Next time, I'll be more prepared, though.
> 
> ...


I tried to no avail on one of the groups I'm in, people who were/are associated with the author in question who is laying claim to starting it all. Group panic/umbrage is all about common emotion and common action so it was like trying to calm a stampede of wild animals with a fish net. Then once the site went radio silent it was started all over again, this time with the glee of self satisfaction born of the same ignorance.



enolarayne said:


> This is an example of an author I would seek out, not only because he took the time to use a little reading comprehension (something I find important in authors), but because of his admirable desire to utilize a system designed to be beneficial to both authors and readers. Kudos to you, sir.
> 
> See elsewhere in this thread for examples of authors whose books will never land in my own library. If any friends of mine happen to bring up the names, I'll make sure to point them to this thread, as well.


Ahhh, thanks Enolarayne!


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## anne_holly (Jun 5, 2011)

phil1861 said:


> I tried to no avail on one of the groups I'm in, people who were/are associated with the author in question who is laying claim to starting it all. Group panic/umbrage is all about common emotion and common action so it was like trying to calm a stampede of wild animals with a fish net. Then once the site went radio silent it was started all over again, this time with the glee of self satisfaction born of the same ignorance.


Yes, it is very difficult to stem those sorts of tides. I saw it on all my loops, but also out in the open on FB, Twitter, blogs, etc. Many people started out fairly calm, but it built and built. It was unfortunate, since it really did discourage calm discussion and fact finding.

At the time, I just said nothing one way or the other, because what did I know? (I was just trying to understand it all.) But, you're likely very right that it wouldn't have helped, anyway. I likely just would have gotten an earful myself. (Not uncommon for me, I admit, but not very useful in general.)


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

ilamont said:


> I told Dale I was writing a blog post about this, and he agreed to answer a few additional questions. The post is here, with the Q&A at the bottom:


Sad tale.

A curious aside: It's interesting that he mentions losing access to the affiliate program in California because that's been reinstated for quite some time. Nearly a year since mine got back in action I think? I noticed it was available again after a couple high-profile podcasts from CA reinstated their affiliate links and it was fine for me too.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I understand he's been in poor health recently so it's possible that he simply hadn't had a chance to follow up on the affiliate link thing and then this other thing blew up.


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## ilamont (Jul 14, 2012)

J. Tanner said:


> Sad tale.


The saddest bit came at the end:

_"The hosting company has offered to reinstate Lendink.com on the condition that I personally respond to all of the complaints individually. I have to say, I really do not know if it is worth the effort at this point. I have read the comments many of these people have posted and I don't think any form of communication will resolve the issues in their eyes. Most are only interested in getting money from me and others are only in in for the kill. They have no intentions of talking to me or working this out. So much for trying to start a business and live the American Dream."_

FWIW, some of the authors who didn't understand how his service and Kindle loans work are now coming around. One left an apology on my blog interview with Dale. Someone else offered to help with hosting.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

It's good to hear that some people can learn and are not ashamed to admit when they've been wrong.


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## Lisa J. Yarde (Jul 15, 2010)

ilamont said:


> I told Dale I was writing a blog post about this, and he agreed to answer a few additional questions. The post is here, with the Q&A at the bottom:
> 
> What happened to LendInk? The owner responds.


Thanks for posting. Retweeted and shared on FB.


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## eBooksHabit (Mar 5, 2012)

For all of these authors who overreacted and killed someone's business when they were too dang ignorant to understand the policies they are publishing under...

What if hundreds of people unjustly gave you a 1-star review overnight because they were too ignorant? What if they reported your book as having errors, getting your books shut down?

How would you feel?

I bet most of them are the same ones who freak out over a single bad review they think is unjust.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Thread locked while we discuss in Admin.

Also, two similar threads merged.  

Thanks for understanding.

Betsy
KB Moderator


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

this thread was locked after six pages, two original threads (now merged) and eight days of discussion because late last night, outside people started registering on the site for the sole purpose of posting to the thread to attack KB members and also to use the thread as a source to attack members via PM. The new members who posted or PM'd attacking KB members have had their posts deleted and have been banned. We will continue to do so. Personal attacks are against Forum Decorum.

There clearly has been a lot of misunderstanding across the Internet about the function of LendInk. In the six pages of the discussion here that occurred, we appreciate our members who took the time to explain the lending process to those who didn't quite get it. We believe that the misunderstanding has been cleared up, albeit belatedly, and we thank LendInk owner Dale Porter for explaining what was going on with his site. We appreciate how the majority of our membership handled the thread. We especially appreciate KB member Ian Lamont, who, on his blog, gave Dale an opportunity to provide more information. Many websites are quoting Ian's blog.

The LendInk situation demonstrates how quickly bad information can go viral. Avoiding mob rule is one of the underlying principles for our WHOA policy--What Happens On Another Site stays on that site or should be handled on that site. Though the LendInk situation wasn't technically a WHOA, which is why the discussion was allowed, it underlines the wisdom of that policy. People do tend to go off without knowing all the facts. KindleBoards does not condone these kinds of mob reactions.

In light of the outside attacks, we do not plan to reopen this thread.

Thanks for understanding.

Betsy
KB Moderator


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