# Showdown: Printed Book Vs. eReader



## Bookread (Mar 8, 2016)

Personally, nothing can replace a printed book. The feel, the smell...it might sound weird to say it, but there's a certain nostalgia that comes with reading a printed book. I can throw a book on the front seat of my car and not worry about it overheating, getting sun damage, or getting stolen (unless the thief has a craving for a Wheel of Time series book).

On the other hand, an eReader is convenient. You can fit all your books in the palm of your hand. It's easier to read at night, and you can't browse the internet on your printed book.

Showdown: Printed Book Vs. eReader. Who wins?


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## Cactus Lady (Jun 4, 2014)

I recently read book 6 of a long fantasy series I've been reading (Malazan Book of the Fallen). I read the first 5 books in paperback and also had book 6 in paper. This thing is 1200 pages long and 3 inches thick, with teeny tiny, very light type. I picked it up to read it and went No Way. My eyes aren't as young as they used to be, and wrestling with a brick of a paperback with my small hands tends to detract from the reading experience. So I got it for my Kindle instead and read it that way, adjusting the font to what's comfortable for my middle-aged eyes and being able to easily hold the device for long periods of time, and finished that book faster than any of the previous books I'd read in the series. It also helped that I could whip out my phone when I was stuck in line or somewhere and read a bit that way too.

Kindle all the way for me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I like to read. The reading is the point for me. Doesn't much matter on what.  I'll read on cereal boxes if that's all that's around.

I wanted a Kindle because I loved the idea of being able to have a library with me at all times.  I was tired of having to carry a ton of books with me when I traveled.  All of the other wonderful features of the Kindle are bonuses:  light weight, the Kindle always knows my place, being able to look up words, being able to borrow books from the library without leaving the house...

I never got the "smell of paper" thing, so I don't miss that.  Don't miss anything about paper books, if you want to know the truth.

Kindle, Kindle, Kindle!

Betsy


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## JR. (Dec 10, 2014)

I prefer printed books. And I read exclusively on my kindle.

It's just too hard to get my hands on books here. There's only a couple of book stores, and no libraries. And the cost. An ebook is a fraction of the price, and second hand books are far too hit and miss - even when I find something I like it will be part of a series with some or all the rest missing. I've never worried about sun or heat damage, and even when my toddler decided to take the kindle into the bath one night, which nobody bothered to mention to me and I didn't find until the next day on a bathroom shelf, still dripping, I thought she was dead, but a couple of days later she struggled to life, and soon after showed no signs of damage whatsoever.

Growing up I spent all my time in other worlds I found through books, and I still feel at home surrounded by bookshelves, but I am very happy, and very grateful, for my kindle.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

I haven't bought a narrative book in print format since 2009 when I got my K2. I've always preferred the smaller footprint of a mass market paperback which is about the same size as a kindle. I also have a real aversion to reading a book that's become damaged--I'd avoid library books for this reason. For me, an ebook is always in the right format and is always brand new as I tend to keep my electronics in pristine shape.

I'll add that recently discovered another reason to love my Kindle. I had a print copy of a book out of the library for research, it was a biography of a Red Cross Overseas Worker in WWII (aka a Donut Dolly) and available on the kindle, but $75 as it was considered a "textbook." OMG the small print. I squinted and held it in clear light and staggered through, but it wasn't a pleasant experience.


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

Kindle and printed books? I also have a cell and a landline.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Kindle wins by every measure for me, no contest.

- no stained, ripped, dog-eared, sneeze-inducing paper pages
- fonts my eyes can easily read
- weight my arthritic hands can easily hold
- an almost infinite number of books available at any time
- I can immediately start reading the next book without having to drive 90 miles to the nearest bookstore or hoping I bought enough books  the last time I was there to last until I could return (at approximately a book a day, this is a biggie!)
- don't have to buy 2 copies or flip a coin to see whether husband (or son, or mother, or mother-in-law) or me gets to read a new book first      
- a portable library that goes everywhere with me (I'd rather leave my cellphone behind than my Kindle)
- books stored for me without needing more bookshelves in my home
- dictionary at a touch

With the exception of hundreds of child books I purchase to read with and give my toddler grandchildren, I have only bought one fiction book in paper since 2008 (JJ Abrams "S" - and it is still unopened in the Amazon box on my bookshelves).  I don't want to return to paper books EVER.


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## Bookread (Mar 8, 2016)

H7Py49 said:


> Kindle and printed books? I also have a cell and a landline.


This is probably the way I'll eventually go. Some on an eReader and some in printed books. I'll always like the idea of a printed book in the backseat of my car, just in case.


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

Printed books require an etiquette that folks today may or may not be aware of. Imagine buying something that is intended to be used by other people besides yourself.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

I have some unread paperbacks that I want to read, but tried and just hated it, especially the way big paperbacks bend and the letters run into the crack and the print was too small. I have a few I may just have to rebuy in digital. Hardcovers are not as bad but I just can't do mass market paperbacks anymore


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I hear the smell thing often when folks talk about paperbooks. As someone that could very rarely afford new books, that so called smell can be pretty nasty, depending on how someone treated the book. From a smoker home, yuck. or just smell old and dust. Sneeze. Then the unidentifiable things in books.  

You seen what is in library books sometimes?   . I don't want to have to read with gloves on. I always treated my own books I bought nicely, but I don't know what others do. But again, I could never afford buying many new books with as much as I read. 

In the 3-5 years leading up to my first kindle I got in 2008, I read maybe 10 books. That is a very sad and depressing number for a reader like me. Why? Because I could not read the font well anymore in paperbacks. Between the small font and the text running into the spine, it took all the fun out of reading. 
I read like 190 books in the first full year with my first kindle. I cannot even convey the joy I felt at being able to read again. The font is as I need it, the page is flat and I don't have to strain my wrists prying open a tight-ish paperback. 

I have some very rare and long awaiting books in a box. I can look at them, but I cannot read them. Pages are fragile and very yellow, print is very small. Long books. I have waited over 20 years to read these books again. I am still waiting on the english to come out. Oh irony, they came out in german which I read them originally, yet I can't casually read german anymore. *sobs. 

For me I just can't think of any advantage of paper over ebooks, other than the issue of ownership. As we technically only buy a license to read a book. And of course it used to be a bit easier to loan out any book among friends and family. But since all but one of my family live 6000 miles away and nobody here I know reads what I read, that isn't an issue anymore. 

Only books I still kind of like in print are cookbooks. I have a collection of books from germany that I can't replace and they have nice large pictures. Since they are cookbooks, the font tends to be larger. 

And I still subscribe to one magazine in paper. 

But for fiction? I need ebooks to even be able to read. And e-ink, need that too. 

Another thing that really came about with ebooks is the online reading communities. Getting recommendations now is so awesome. I can connect with readers and then I can check the book out immediately if I wan't. Don't have to go to a store. They are always there. 

That is unless a apocalypse hits and we have no power. Then I'll first raid a optometry shop, hobby shop for magnifiers and then move into a library.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

Bookread said:


> Showdown: Printed Book Vs. eReader. Who wins?


Easy! We win! We have more choices.

Barry


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

barryem said:


> Easy! We win! We have more choices.
> 
> Barry


 



Atunah said:


> That is unless a apocalypse hits and we have no power. Then I'll first raid a optometry shop, hobby shop for magnifiers and then move into a library.


There's a reason I have my solar charger.

Betsy


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

For those who love the smell of books here are some links with possible solutions:

http://www.amazon.com/Demeter-Paperback-Cologne-spray-bottle/dp/B000BPRNT0

http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Passion-Perfume-Geza-Schoen/dp/3869305010

http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Library-Candle-Assouline/dp/1614282811/?tag=eflyus-20

http://smellofbooks.com/

Barry (who loves the smell of Kindles)


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

So are any of these responses surprising on a board dedicated to Kindles and digital reading??


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> There's a reason I have my solar charger.


Good point! Reminds me of Cormac McCarthy's The Road.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

barryem said:


> Barry (who loves the smell of Kindles)


I'm going to steal that as my answer to the "smell of books" comment from now on!

I especially liked the smell of my K1 in its leather cover.

Betsy


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Sniffs her kindle..........

Smells like chocolate.


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## lindnet (Jan 25, 2009)

It's weird, I used to be absolutely pro e reader over printed book.  Found printed books totally annoying after I discovered the Kindle.  Now after several years, I'm finding a lot of enjoyment in reading paper books again.  For me it's not smell, it's tactile.  And if I'm reading "throw away" books, the Kindle is fine.  But books I want to keep on my bookshelf, collect, and read again?  I found that I'm just not as happy knowing I can download it again.  I want those books that I savor to be on my bookshelf and I want to turn the pages.

I had downloaded and read Stephen King's 11-22-63.  (I should probably mention that I have most of his books in paper).  Anyway, I ordered the paper book....so I can read it again and keep it on my bookshelf.

Who knows when or if the pendulum will swing back the other way?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> There's a reason I have my solar charger.
> 
> Betsy


I keep thinking of getting one of those . . .I have a battery pack for backup, but, of course, you still need to plug 'em in at some point to charge 'em.

What model solar charger do you have?


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Hmmm, we do have a solar charger. Well, hubby has one for the ham radio stuff. But, once that battery gives out, you'll all be moving into the library with me.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I keep thinking of getting one of those . . .I have a battery pack for backup, but, of course, you still need to plug 'em in at some point to charge 'em.
> 
> What model solar charger do you have?


Geeze, I'll have to look it up. I bought it soooo long ago. Need to test it again, haven't in a while.

Betsy


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2016)

Despite this being a Kindle forum, I'll be the outlier  I am not a "luddite", but I still buy primarily print and I read primarily print and I will continue to do so until I'm dead or I very literally can't get anything I want to read via print anymore (unlikely for a long long time with my wishlist).

Last year I read 195 books. Of those, only 13 were any form of eBook, the last of which I read in July 2015. I bought 158 print books, but only 16 eBooks (of which 11 were free and I've only read 2).

As my old iPad 2 (original, not Air) is trying hard to croak, I suspect the number of eBooks read and acquired will be going to go down soon because I'm thus far not really inclined to buy myself another tablet (the iPad is work issued, but we're allowed personal use; but as I have little need for it for work, it isn't being replaced LOL).

The only time I will even buy ebooks are non-fiction, because I tend to read once and done, and very rarely to support fellow indies, particularly those whose podcasts I follow or who I just find likable/are friends. I do have a Digital TBR list, which includes some freebies I picked up as well, but most of the time, I turn to my physical books to read.

I just prefer print. Yeah, I also like the feel better (just feels more tangible). For print as well:

[list type=decimal]
[*]it's easier to flip between pages
[*]significantly more selection for what I enjoy
[*]works in a power outage, plane ride, out in the woods/country, etc
[*]can acquire used and usually cheaper than eBook prices outside of indie books
[*]bookstores are still so much easier to browse and discover potential reads, and then flip through it to see if it I want to get it
[*]generally (other than rare books) costs me way less if damaged or lost
[*]paperbacks are unlikely to be stolen
[*]insurable in case of loss/damage (all 1200+ books in my house are insured)
[*]actually mine vs "leased" (which eBooks from Amazon et al generally are)
[*]easier for people to give me and/or lend
[*]I tend to read with better focus and attention; when I'm on a device, I tend to be on multiples at once and skim text
[*]most of all, print is better for my eyes. I know some people say "but a regular Kindle is very easy on the eyes and look, resizable text", but I didn't really find it to be the case for me and I don't have issues with print size. It's a simple matter that I am on a computer some 80-100 hours a week - books give me a much needed break from screens cause after awhile my eyes are just like 
[/list]


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Anma, nothing wrong with preferring print, even on a Kindle forum! My husband still reads print, though I've read a handful of paper books since getting my Kindle in 2008. I think I read about the same number of total books as I ever read, they're just ebooks now.

(Not pertinent to the topic, but my iPad is my primary computer! I read on it some, when I'm too lazy to get up and get my Kindle, but mostly I use it as I would use a desktop.)

Like I say, nothing wrong with preferring print--we all have our likes and dislikes. But, since you gave me a list... 

*1. It's easier to flip between pages.* 
I'll concede this, kind of. I find the "flip view" (or whatever it is called) on the Voyage and Paperwhite to be as easy as flipping pages; and I can actually search my ebook to look for a specific phrase, something I can't do in paper! I do prefer print for some non-fiction--usually big, image heavy books, though I'm starting to get those for my iPad.
*2. significantly more selection for what I enjoy*. 
Selection--that's very individual. For me, almost without exception, the books I want are available as ebooks. Non-fiction books are usually the exception.
*3. works in a power outage, plane ride, out in the woods/country, etc*. 
I've used my Kindles in power outages, plane rides and while camping. My eink Kindles last for days, at a minimum; more if I put them in airplane mode. It's much different than using the Kindle app on a tablet.
*4. Can acquire used and usually cheaper than eBook prices outside of indie books*. 
Definitely true for the most part, though I can and do pick up books by my favorite trad published authors when they go on sale. And it's much easier to browse Amazon than almost any bookstore, used or new, that I've been in. Though I still go in them. . Used books aren't as cheap as they used to be, it seems to me. Still spending $2-$3 per book. Compared to getting trad pubbed on sale for $1.99 to $2.99 on Amazon. (Keep an eye on the Bargain Book thread pinned to the top of the Book Bazaar!)
*5. bookstores are still so much easier to browse and discover potential reads, and then flip through it to see if it I want to get it*. 
Maybe because I don't browse in bookstore very much anymore, but I find online sooo much easier. I can search for books by my author instead of trying to find them on the shelf; Amazon will carry all the books, not just the most current or the ones in stock; I don't have to pull them out to take a look at them--everything I want to know is all in one page. I never was much of a page flipper when picking books--bought books (still do) based on the cover and blurb (which was on the back and now is on the product page). I don't sample or use the Look Inside very often on Amazon. Title, Cover, Blurb, recommendation, pretty much the same criteria I used with paper books. And I can look at reviews online, which I can't very easily in a store (unless I go on Amazon, LOL!). And I can browse in my jammies at one am. 
*6 through 11*. 
*Loss/damage:* I can replace a Kindle and then access my many thousand book library on Amazon for $120 (It was over 3000 at one point some time back. *Leased vs owned*. I appreciate that bothers many people. If it really bothered me, I would download the books, as many do. *Lending:* I have a spare Kindle to lend people books on, though I was never much of a book lender. *Distraction*: The beauty of the reader is that you can't multi-task, just like a book. *Theft:* unlike phones and tablets, I haven't read much about snatch and grab cases of Kindle theft. As I keep my Kindle in my purse when I'm not using it, I'd be more worried about my wallet and credit cards. I doubt they're grabbing the purse because they saw me stow the Kindle.

*12. Better for your eyes.*
Everyone's eyes are different; screens don't bother my eyes at all, but I can understand needing to take a break from screens. If an eink screen bothers you, and you're not the only one who has said that here, paper is definitely the way to go.

It's all about reading! Paper isn't going to go away, neither are ebooks. . What's great is I think more people are reading than ever before!

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FWIW, I concur with Betsy on her dissent.   I'll only add this: if you're comparing the eBook experience on a tablet vs the paper book experience that's not exactly the same thing as comparing the ebook experience on a dedicated eInk reader (specifically, here, the kindle, though Kobo and the now rare Nook eInk device are similar) to a paper book. I'm thinking mainly about the potential issues of back-lit screen reading and 'distractions' on tablets.

I'll add one other 'advantage' for me . . . I hadn't use the library much before Kindle. Just not all that convenient. I mean, you had to actually Go There and, even if you had in mind a book or two you particularly wanted, you had to go searching. Mind you browsing at the library is fine, and you might find some additional gems that way, but, still, you had to actually go there. With the Kindle I can borrow nearly all the bestsellers, and some second tier titles as well, from my home. Sure, maybe I can't get 'em right away, but it's dead easy to get on a wait list and when it's available, you don't have to suddenly shift your schedule to get there to get it before your reserve period is over. You can download it and read it right away. Often -- unless it's a very popular book -- you can easily renew it right from your computer as well. As a result, I've been reading way more library books lately, which as been a good thing!

I do have some paper books that I've not read yet . . . honestly, I probably won't. The kindle is just so much more convenient for me -- no need to hold open the pages, can make the print the size I need it, instant access to thousands of books (and those are just the ones in my account  ). As I see some of those TBR paper titles come available or go on sale for Kindle, I snap 'em up and read 'em that way. 

Reference books generally work better in paper, or else on a computer or tablet with a fully featured/linked rendering engine.

But, again, all this is my opinion.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

I've just been re-reading some of these posts and it occurred to me that lighting hasn't been discussed much.  With paper books and with the Kindles before the Paperwhite I had to go sit under a lamp or by a window to read.  When I was young it didn't matter so much but that was a long time ago. Now reading either means a Kindle or fussing over light.

My favorite place to read when I'm not in bed is sitting on an old hassock that I haven't used for anything else in years. It's got a rip right where I'd put my feet so I have an old throw folded over the top and it makes it very comfortable to sit on.  It's sitting in a corner with not nearly enough light for comfortable reading even if I was young again, but who cares!  I have a Kindle with a front light!

I read in bed almost every night before I go to sleep, usually for 15 minutes to about an hour.  I don't care for reading in the dark even though I could.  Years ago I had a reading lamp that hung over the headboard but my current bed doesn't have a headboard and reading by lamplight, if I had a paper book, would force me to lay in awkward positions.

I live in a retirement home and we have a nice, usually quiet recreation area with a very comfy chair for reading although it also doesn't have enough light.  I have a Kindle.  I enjoy reading there.

Ebooks and paper books each have their advantages and disadvantages but I think lighting is the one advantage of ebooks that can't quite be matched by any of the advantages of print.  Ebooks with front lights increase the number of places we can enjoy reading.

Barry


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## GBear (Apr 23, 2009)

barryem said:


> Ebooks and paper books each have their advantages and disadvantages but I think lighting is the one advantage of ebooks that can't quite be matched by any of the advantages of print.


I agree with you, Barry, that the lighting is one thing that has made the Kindle indispensable for me. However, I was a convert before lighting was added, for all the reasons previously stated. I think the top two were: traveling (especially on airplanes) without lugging several pounds of books or worrying about running out of reading material; and the ever-present dictionary that eliminated the decision of whether looking up an unknown word was worth the effort.

My only real source of envy for printed material - the ban on Kindle airplane reading from 0-10,000 feet - is no longer an issue.

Lastly, and this may not have been mentioned in this thread, I feel happy about donating hundreds of pounds of piles of old books, getting rid of a major source of clutter throughout the house forever! (Many who love to be surrounded by books won't feel the same way about this one.)


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

Re-reading this thread, it is a thought provoking one, also got me thinking about buying and selling used books and how that compares to piracy of ebooks.  I hope this isn't too delicate a topic.  I'm not advocating piracy.  I think the legal distinctions are clear.  But what are the practical distinctions?

When we buy a used book and read it the author and publisher gains nothing and yet we've benefited from their work.  The seller benefits financially and the buyer gets the book free.  How does that differ from the pirate website which makes copies of a book and sells them, except in scale?  Again, I'm not questioning the ethical distinction.  Or maybe I am.  If one is wrong why isn't the other wrong?

When I was reading paper books I nearly always read paperbacks and I really never cared if they were new or used.  I'd read a book and I was done with it.  I almost never kept books.  I'd sell them or give them away.  I bought a lot of used books.  Was I cheating the publisher and the author?  Don't misunderstand.  If I was still reading paper I'd still be buying used books.

In the early 20th century publishers did try to charge royalties for used book sales.  This ended up in the Supreme Court which establed the First Sale Doctrine, denying them that right.  But the effect of the sale of a used book on the author and publisher seems to me to be identical to the effect of sharing an ebook.  If one is okay, why not the other?

I'm not sure I'm on-topic here and I thought about putting this in it's own thread but I'm not sure I'm off-topic either and it feels right in here.  If it gets moved I won't mind.

Barry


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2016)

barryem said:


> Re-reading this thread, it is a thought provoking one, also got me thinking about buying and selling used books and how that compares to piracy of ebooks. I hope this isn't too delicate a topic. I'm not advocating piracy. I think the legal distinctions are clear. But what are the practical distinctions?
> 
> When we buy a used book and read it the author and publisher gains nothing and yet we've benefited from their work. The seller benefits financially and the buyer gets the book free. How does that differ from the pirate website which makes copies of a book and sells them, except in scale? Again, I'm not questioning the ethical distinction. Or maybe I am. If one is wrong why isn't the other wrong?


One, if you buy a used book, you didn't get it for free. That would be getting a book as a gift  The author gets the money on the sale once, same as any other physical good. In that kind of case, the uptick for the author is potential sales of other books they write.

Two, the big difference is with a printed book, you sell it and you no longer have access to it and the physical good is transferred to another person. One book changes hands, but the "supply" of books didn't change.

With eBook piracy, one the author rarely gets money for even the first copy (most pirates either find ways to get them free or buy, copy, and return), and two, yes, as you noted scale. To compare them equivalently, piracy would be like you buying a copy of a book, making multiple exact copies, returning your original, and then selling or giving away those copies in an endless supply. And people who acquire pirated books are unlikely to buy any other books while those who trade in pirated books often do so as a gateway to hack computers and steal financial information.

Another way to look at it is to substitute other physical goods. If I buy a new car, the car dealership, the maker, etc get a cut. When I'm done with it and it no longer is useful to me and I sell it used to someone else, no one gets money except me. That doesn't, however, mean that now 100 people got a "copy" of my car, it means one person got one car and the supply of cars is unchanged. If I could however duplicate my car (3-D printer!) and then sell all those copies, now the supply has changed. I've cut out all the people who should have gotten a cut on each car sold, and taken all the money.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

barryem said:


> Re-reading this thread, it is a thought provoking one, also got me thinking about buying and selling used books and how that compares to piracy of ebooks. I hope this isn't too delicate a topic. I'm not advocating piracy. I think the legal distinctions are clear. But what are the practical distinctions?
> 
> When we buy a used book and read it the author and publisher gains nothing and yet we've benefited from their work. The seller benefits financially and the buyer gets the book free. How does that differ from the pirate website which makes copies of a book and sells them, except in scale? Again, I'm not questioning the ethical distinction. Or maybe I am. If one is wrong why isn't the other wrong?
> 
> ...


This is why it always confused me that Publishers fought against ebooks. They made impulse purchasing easier, they can't be resold or easily passed among friends. It seemed like a win-win for them


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

I think the big problem with ebooks, and the reason for all my convoluted logic (which I still think is valid) and the convoluted responses to them, is DRM.  Paper books don't need DRM, they're hard to copy.  Ebooks, at least in the minds of the publishers, do need DRM and that creates the biggest limitations of all with ebooks.

The European Union is considering a monumental change in ebooks, mostly as a result of Barnes and Noble shutting down in England, resulting in Nook owners having a useless device.  Actually they've been discussing it for a while but now the pundits are thinking it's being taken so seriously it's likely to pass in the near future. Their idea is that every ereader has to be able to read every ebook regardless of where it's bought.  That there be either a single ebook format and single DRM or that all ereaders be able to handle all the formats and all the DRM's.

If that happens ebooks suddenly become far more useful.

Barry


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

I am really liking the font options, and notice which show more text and which cut off some text (easier to read).  If you have this display option selected: I like the page numbers and noticed that they don't change when I turn the page, because I figure they are associated with the actual printed book?  And the percent read figure helps to know your progress.

If there was a button to turn pages I would probably use that, but the screen touch is of course fine. I really miss the copyright page - but I can get the same info by looking up the title in goodreads anyway.

I can't get over how small it is.  I don't plan on using a cover as anything that would add weight and make it thicker is not what I'm after.  I do love the box it came in and that's where it sits when I'm not reading, or carrying it around or to the car or wherever.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

H7Py49 said:


> I am really liking the font options, and notice which show more text and which cut off some text (easier to read). If you have this display option selected: I like the page numbers and noticed that they don't change when I turn the page, because I figure they are associated with the actual printed book? And the percent read figure helps to know your progress.
> 
> If there was a button to turn pages I would probably use that, but the screen touch is of course fine. I really miss the copyright page - but I can get the same info by looking up the title in goodreads anyway.
> 
> I can't get over how small it is. I don't plan on using a cover as anything that would add weight and make it thicker is not what I'm after. I do love the box it came in and that's where it sits when I'm not reading, or carrying it around or to the car or wherever.


The copyright page should still be there . . . but it's probably before the 'beginning' which is where a new book opens to first time. Use 'go to' and start at the cover and flip through. Or it might even be listed as an option in the GoTo menu.

Note that traditional publisher titles will almost always have a pretty standard looking copyright page, independently published titles may not. The info is all still there, just possibly in a different format. And some publishers will put it all at the end of the book instead of the beginning so that it's not part of the sample file.


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

Ann in Arlington said:


> The copyright page should still be there . . . but it's probably before the 'beginning' which is where a new book opens to first time. Use 'go to' and start at the cover and flip through. Or it might even be listed as an option in the GoTo menu.
> 
> Note that traditional publisher titles will almost always have a pretty standard looking copyright page, independently published titles may not. The info is all still there, just possibly in a different format. And some publishers will put it all at the end of the book instead of the beginning so that it's not part of the sample file.


The book I'm reading now does not have a copyright page - 3 pages; cover, title, chapter (dedication at the end). Cool that there's all that stuff in the beginning though!


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

I read something a few years ago, I don't recall where so I'm not sure how accurate this is, that said that in print books a copyright page is required by law and that in ebooks, since it's not, most ebooks don't bother.

I don't always look for a copyright page but I used to.  I like knowing when the book was written.  But most Kindle books don't seem to have them, at least in my experience, so I started looking on the internet instead.

By the way, Amazon's page for a book doesn't help either; something I find irritating.  It will list the publication date but that's for the Kindle edition.  I read a lot of older books, my current one was written in 1948, and I like to be able to place them in time and Amazon is no help at all in that.

Barry


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

barryem said:


> But most Kindle books don't seem to have them, at least in my experience, so I started looking on the internet instead.


I look up the title in goodreads and it's there.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

barryem said:


> Easy! We win! We have more choices.
> 
> Barry


Yes!

BTW, the "printed books have a nice smell" argument has not cut any ice with me. I read mostly older books, and the paper dust not only sets off my allergies, but triggers asthma attacks also.

Mike


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## DougFNJ (Mar 18, 2016)

I'm a creature of habit on many things. Things have to be a certain way or I get thrown off.  That's why I understand where someone comes from when they say "there is nothing like a physical book". Or "I like the smell of paper".  Many people feel that way until they curiously explore the Ebook reader, Kindle or others. 

It was the similar argument with buying the CD/Cassette/Album. "I like the experience of going to the store, sitting in my car, unwrapping it, opening the artwork, etc. Then they buy so many albums with 1 hit wonders and find out they could download the 1 song they like off that album for 99 cents, and store and listen to their entire music collection on a device the size of a cassette. No sound degradation, no skips, and if they break the device, they could buy another one download the whole collection to THAT device and didn't miss anything. 

I'm reason on my Kindle, don't have my Kindle on me at work one day during lunch, I open my iPhone or iPad to Kindle app, the page I was reading is held, and I can continue reading. 

I like to read multiple books at the same time. My briefcase and backseat had books all over the place....and nothing like it when your bookmark falls out of one of those books, right?

Ever read outside when it's a little windy?  Isn't it fun holding down that page, and even more fun if you weren't holding it in the right spot?  Especially when your really into that book. 

In my old apartment, I had one piece of furniture that was VERY heavy dedicated to all the books I already read, but was not willing to throw out. They've all since been donated to the library. 

Text books- when I grew up my book could had been 7 years old.  They were teaching me current subjects with 7 year old information. Those books apparently cost $75 each times how many students, times how many subjects, classes, schools. Students now have iPads or ability to download those books to rent. They can highlight, make notes, search through the book, and on iPads, they can interact with the content, play videos and audio within the book to demonstrate a lesson, and give and grade pop quizzes on the spot within that book. Plus the kid no longer suffers backaches after lugging home 50 pound bags full of books. 

I get the arguments against, but I for one enjoy where the future has gone and is continually going with Ebooks. I am really glad publishers caught on so my selection is endless. 

One other thing, talented authors that couldn't get published now have an easy audience to introduce themselves to rather than giving up based on a few editors. We could say we now have a broader choice of books available to us vs paper books. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

Kyra Halland said:


> I recently read book 6 of a long fantasy series I've been reading (Malazan Book of the Fallen).


I've actually been considering reading that series. I'm not a big fan of fantasy writing, but am not averse to reading it if it is compelling enough and well written and from what I've hear, it fits that bill.

Anyhow, to add my 2 cents, I have a foot in both camps. I tend to use my Kindle for the classics, since they are public domain and free, and I buy physical copies of contemporary literature. This is for 2 reasons. Number 1 is DRM. I don't intend to buy hundreds to thousands of dollars on ebooks to be beholden to Amazon. Kindle is king right now and isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. But what happens if in 20 years, someone else comes along with a better product and a better service? Or if the Kindle were to go belly up (as unlikely as that is,I don't want all my eggs in that basket). But the other, even more important reason is that my book collection, as a tangible thing, is important to me. It is something I take pride in. I'm not so much stuck on the feel of holding a physical book as some are, but the idea of a collection, on display, is something that I treasure. I'm the same way with my movies and my music. But in a perfect world, the book and movie industry will catch up to the music industry and I can have the best of both worlds. Since music is pretty much 100% DRM free now, I can buy my CDs and Vinyl and still have a digital copy. The movie industry is moving in that direction, as a lot of movies now come with a free digital copy, but you still have to choose a platform, it still has DRM and it is still only some movies. The book industry is in the still in the stone ages as far as this is concerned. Hopefully, one day, they will catch up and books will be DRM free and will come with the purchase of a physical book so I can have my physical copy and do all my actual reading on the Kindle or whatever device I have at the time


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

barryem said:


> I think the big problem with ebooks, and the reason for all my convoluted logic (which I still think is valid) and the convoluted responses to them, is DRM. Paper books don't need DRM, they're hard to copy. Ebooks, at least in the minds of the publishers, do need DRM and that creates the biggest limitations of all with ebooks.
> 
> The European Union is considering a monumental change in ebooks, mostly as a result of Barnes and Noble shutting down in England, resulting in Nook owners having a useless device. Actually they've been discussing it for a while but now the pundits are thinking it's being taken so seriously it's likely to pass in the near future. Their idea is that every ereader has to be able to read every ebook regardless of where it's bought. That there be either a single ebook format and single DRM or that all ereaders be able to handle all the formats and all the DRM's.
> 
> ...


If that were to happen with DRM, buy the book with any service and read it on any reader, I would be much more open to it. But the situation with the Nook in the UK that you mentioned is what scares me even with Kindle and is why %95 of what I get on it is public domain. I very, very rarely actual pay money for a Kindle book. If DRM weren't an issue, I would probably spend copious amounts of money on e-books.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

> Number 1 is DRM. I don't intend to buy hundreds to thousands of dollars on ebooks to be beholden to Amazon. Kindle is king right now and isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. But what happens if in 20 years, someone else comes along with a better product and a better service? Or if the Kindle were to go belly up (as unlikely as that is,I don't want all my eggs in that basket).


DRM isn't the problem you think it is. Making a backup copy of a Kindle book without DRM and in a couple of formats typically takes about 30 seconds. On those rare days when I buy a bunch of books I can do them all at once. Calibre has a very nice buik convert feature. Ten books will usually take 2 or 3 minutes, time I spend sipping coffee till it's done.

It's really that simple. And then I can read it on any ereader or any app on a tablet or phone.

Because I live in a rural area with few stores and I don't have a car I depend heavily on Amazon and I was concerned that they might know I did this, since it requires that I have Kindle for PC installed. I called them and asked if I was likely to get myself in trouble with them if I did this, assuming I don't distribute the books. The person I talked with put me on hold and asked around and told me no-one there, including some supervisors had any problem with what I was doing. I've read in a couple of other forums that other people have called with similar results and it's been discussed more than once on Amazon's Kindle forum. So even though it's technically illegal nobody seems to care.

Barry


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

Well, that would certainly make me less hesitant to spend money on ebooks.  However, it still does not solve the problem that the music industry has solved and the movie industry is slowly learning, and that is that a physical purchase should be supplemented with a digital version.  Because I still don't want to buy the book twice.


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## honey badger (Mar 23, 2016)

Atunah said:


> Sniffs her kindle..........
> 
> Smells like chocolate.


My new kindle 300 is special so I bought the nice $59.00 Leather cover. It is beautiful and I love the smell of leather..hmmm


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

300?


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## Linjeakel (Mar 17, 2010)

Pre-kindle I was one of those people who loved the physical aspect of reading books - the whole feel of them in your hands, turning the pages etc etc.

But I also love gadgets and gizmos, so I was immediately drawn to the idea of e-readers. They were pretty expensive in the early days and as much as I wanted one, I was afraid the experience wouldn't live up to my love of books and it would end up in the back of a drawer, unused. So it was a very considered purchase.

I bought my first Kindle as soon as the K2 became available in the UK - in 2009 I think. I haven't bought a physical book since. 

I _still_ love the feel of 'real' books and I've kept many of the ones I already had, but I can't see me ever going back to buying them, especially not for fiction books. And as much as I loved my K2, the Voyage I have now is leaps and bounds ahead, so all the more to love about it.

It's a very individual thing and there's no right or wrong answer - the only important thing is that we continue to read and if ereaders will encourage gadget happy kids to read, then that's great, but even so, I think it'll be a long, long time, if ever, before paper books die out.

I don't think we should be thinking of this as a contest, with ereaders and books as the polar opposite of each other, I think they compliment each other - and as was said earlier in the thread, that's a win-win situation - the more choices the better.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

I've really been enjoying this thread, partly because it's been about "I like" and not so much about what others should do.  As I've been reading this I've been thinking a lot about my own tastes and remembering some thoughts about reading from long ago.

I've always loved reading.  I like books well enough but it's always been reading and not books that I cared about.  Most of my life I read paperbacks and my current read was always in my hip pocket and even if it started out as a new book by the time I finished it it was well used.  I never really cared.

I did sometimes buy a hardback in a store because it seemed nice but I would get it home and, for the most part, never look at it again.  I read paperbacks.  It's hard to put a hardback in my hip pocket.

When I began to transition to ebooks the whole thing, to me at least, was about making them easier to carry.  I always had a small computing device in my pocket, at least since there have been small computing devices, and it was wonderful to be able to read with it and not have to also carry a book.  It was about the elimination of a device; the paper one.

I like ebooks because they're convenient.  I really couldn't care less about smell or the feel of the paper or any of that.  Well, maybe I do somewhat but it's about reading; about the story, not about the medium.

As a kid I had a lot of imagination and I remember thinking about how inconvenient books were.  I don't recall what brought this on but in my head I imagined a flat board-like thingy with words on it that would move upward, scrolling.  I think I was probably 14 or 15 when that first occurred to me, probably around 1954 or so, and I thought of it over and over again the whole time I was growing up.  Of course I never thought one could exist but I read science fiction a lot in those days and that was just how my mind worked.

Lo an behold the Kindle happened and it's so much like that imaginary device when I was a kid that it's just amazing.  In fact I wonder at times if it's just my imagination working too hard.  There really are Kindles, aren't there?  Am I the only one who sees them?  Please say it's not just me!!

I guess if Kindles did turn out to be imaginary I could go back to reading paperbacks but I'd grumble a lot.

The last few months, actually, I've been reading on a phone.  It's always in my pocket.  It's not connected.  I can't make calls with it.  But it's full of books and I find myself reading more since I started using it than I was before.  I keep telling myself I'll go back to a Kindle but now I'm not so sure.  This is just so handy.  And it even scrolls. 

Barry


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## drafter69 (Mar 21, 2009)

I don't see why there has to be a winner.  Each has certain qualities.  For me the ability to increase the font size is very important.  The built in dictionary is also a great help at times.  Both printed and electronic are winners


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Chad Winters said:


> 300?





honey badger said:


> My new kindle 300 is special so I bought the nice $59.00 Leather cover. It is beautiful and I love the smell of leather..hmmm


I believe honey badger's "kindle 300" is the 3rd gen Paperwhite, often called here the PW 2015; it has a 300ppi screen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle#Kindle_Paperwhite_.283rd_generation.29

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I think I'm going to read my first paperbook in a while. My sister-in-law loaned me a book I've been wanting to read...



This is going to be painful....


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I believe honey badger's "kindle 300" is the 3rd gen Paperwhite, often called here the PW 2015; it has a 300ppi screen.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle#Kindle_Paperwhite_.283rd_generation.29
> 
> Betsy


Ahh thanks, I thought I might have missed out on a few versions :O


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## John Hopper (Mar 31, 2013)

Linjeakel said:


> Pre-kindle I was one of those people who loved the physical aspect of reading books - the whole feel of them in your hands, turning the pages etc etc.
> 
> But I also love gadgets and gizmos, so I was immediately drawn to the idea of e-readers. They were pretty expensive in the early days and as much as I wanted one, I was afraid the experience wouldn't live up to my love of books and it would end up in the back of a drawer, unused. So it was a very considered purchase.
> 
> ...


A very good post. This is me as well. I haven't bought a paper book in a long while, but still read them from my pre-existing collection or borrowed from the library or from other people. But 95%+ of my reading is eBooks and probably 99%+ of my fiction reading is.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## DougFNJ (Mar 18, 2016)

drafter69 said:


> I don't see why there has to be a winner. Each has certain qualities. For me the ability to increase the font size is very important. The built in dictionary is also a great help at times. Both printed and electronic are winners


Not so much a winner, but more like pinpointing and enjoying the fact the we have these great choices and enjoying the observations on what choice we all made


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## metal134 (Sep 2, 2010)

barryem said:


> As a kid I had a lot of imagination and I remember thinking about how inconvenient books were. I don't recall what brought this on but in my head I imagined a flat board-like thingy with words on it that would move upward, scrolling. I think I was probably 14 or 15 when that first occurred to me, probably around 1954 or so, and I thought of it over and over again the whole time I was growing up. Of course I never thought one could exist but I read science fiction a lot in those days and that was just how my mind worked.


Mu generation grew up with Walkmans and portable CD players, so I imagined something similar with music. Wouldn't it be awesome if I could carry a device that just had all my music on it? I also imagined something similar for movies and video games. Never really thought about books, though. But never in my wildest imagination did I ever think that all those things would not only come true, but the same device would do all of it (and many, may other things), and that device would be the size of a cassette tape.


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

H7Py49 said:


> ...miss the copyright page - but I can get the same info by looking up the title in goodreads anyway.


Found a series that has it!


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

Anma Natsu said:


> One, if you buy a used book, you didn't get it for free. That would be getting a book as a gift  The author gets the money on the sale once, same as any other physical good. In that kind of case, the uptick for the author is potential sales of other books they write.
> 
> Two, the big difference is with a printed book, you sell it and you no longer have access to it and the physical good is transferred to another person. One book changes hands, but the "supply" of books didn't change.
> 
> ...


Those are valid points but I think barry's equally valid point is that the end result is still the same: the publisher/author isn't making any money off multiple people reading their book. That is true for people reading used print books and for people reading pirated ebooks, the only difference is that ebooks puts it on a bigger scale. The fact that digital provides copies rather than passing on the original is just what puts it on a larger scale. So barry is right that the only difference is scale, not the ethical principle of the matter being that the publisher/author don't make any money off it, as so many people claim.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

Please keep in mind that in my post comparing piracy with used book sales I was asking questions, pointing out conundrums, not giving answers. The problem is that no answers seem to work very well.

I think the real conclusion this all leads to is that we have a system developed carefully over time to control a technology that's slowly being replaced and the system no longer fits. There's no telling where all this is headed but I will predict one thing; it's all gonna change. in a dozen or so years we'll either have an entirely new system and set of book related values or the current chaos will have simply fallen of it's own weight.

A few months ago I saw a Youtube video "This Land Is Mine" which is a subset of a longer cartoon "Sita Sings the Blues". It was fascinating and I looked up the creator, Nina Paley and read her explanation of her publication method. She got so bogged down in trying to clear the copyrights of old songs that she needed for this when the rights owners weren't even known anymore, that she finally gave up. She decided to use whatever she wanted, create the cartoon and not publish it. Instead she put it where the pirates could find it and distribute it for her. Amazing idea.  Amazing cartoon! 

Here's a link to the one I watched:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKMV6e5kEo

And here's a link to her TED talk about the problems she faced and her solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO9FKQAxWZc

Barry


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## honey badger (Mar 23, 2016)

barryem said:


> Please keep in mind that in my post comparing piracy with used book sales I was asking questions, pointing out conundrums, not giving answers. The problem is that no answers seem to work very well.
> 
> I think the real conclusion this all leads to is that we have a system developed carefully over time to control a technology that's slowly being replaced and the system no longer fits. There's no telling where all this is headed but I will predict one thing; it's all gonna change. in a dozen or so years we'll either have an entirely new system and set of book related values or the current chaos will have simply fallen of it's own weight.
> 
> ...


I love Sita Sings the Blues.


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## barryem (Oct 19, 2010)

Actually I was mistaken in my post.  The video I linked to is from her newer movie.  I had watched them months ago and I remembered it wrong.  I watched the ones I linked to yesterday after my post and realized my mistake.

Barry


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## veshnaja (Mar 31, 2016)

As the author I think that ebooks are better, you can correct and reload it anytime you'd like. As a reader I appreciate paper books for the smell of new book especially


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## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

I got my first Kindle in November 2008.  Since then I rarely purchase print books.  The exception is cookbooks because most of them are not formatted well for display on a screen.
The main thing for me is that I can carry an entire library with me at a time.  I no longer have to carry extra books or pack an extra suitcase when traveling to make sure I have reading material.
The other major advantages are the ability to change the font size and the light on the new Kindles.


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## rlkubi (Dec 7, 2009)

For me definitely the Kindle Voyage!


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

I got my K1 in May of 2008 and have only purchased a handful of paper books since, all non-fiction that wasn't available in ebook. Having my house not piled with books in every corner is one of many benefits. I'm down to 3 bookcases that actually have books on them in an orderly fashion. I kept non-fiction reference books and some fiction I re-read every few years. I do read paper sometimes from the library.

Being a cheapskate, I hate the thought of repurchasing books I already own in paper just because I prefer to read on the Kindle, but recently I realized it may come down to that when I wanted to re-read something I only have in paperback. Hard covers are still good, but the type on paperbacks is smaller than I like, and I don't much care for the yellowed paper or the smell of old paper.

I never liked used books because of their condition and these days only borrow newish fiction from the library (hard covers) so they don't yet have icky spots I don't want to know the history of in them.

Yes, there are some paper advantages like the page-flipping thing, but you get used to dealing with that if you read a lot of ebooks. For me the advantages far outweigh minor stuff like that. I'm re-read favorite ebooks the same way I always have favorite physical books.

And the copyright thing surprises me. I've never looked for a copyright page in an ebook and not found it - traditionally published book or indie - although I think I have a vague recollection of someone saying Hugh Howey doesn't include them.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

For me personally, it's eReading, hands down, for all the reasons folks have listed above.  I first became aware of the Kindle in early 2008 and was fascinated by the idea of an "iPod for books".  The price stopped me initially, but by August I bit the bullet when (1) the price dropped $40 and (2) my husband said "Our anniversary is coming up - if you want one, order one".  I wasn't sure whether I'd miss physical books, but knew I could return it if I was disappointed.  Of course I wasn't, and I didn't, and I've never looked back.  

I can literally count on one hand the number of paper novels I've read since August 2008, and most of those I read in the first year or so after I got that first Kindle.  I quickly became a Kindle snob - it's just so much easier for me to read on the Kindle.  It's easier to hold it, and in fact sometimes I don't even actually hold it - I let it rest on a squishy pillow in my lap and turn the page with the twitch of my thumb.  I can increase the font when my eyes get tired, so I can read for longer stretches.  And with the Paperwhite (okay, I have TWO Paperwhites) I can read in bed into the night while DH sleeps.  And yes, that "iPod for books" thing that first attracted me still makes me foolishly happy - I love having the ability to carry a ridiculous number of books around in such a small package.  And I can get new books anywhere, any time, as long as I have an internet connection - even library books.

There are some books I still prefer in paper - cookbooks, most craft or decorating books - anything you'd want/need to flip around in a lot, or of course books that are heavy with color pictures.  But for novels, and for non-fiction that doesn't have any or many pictures, I'll take my Kindles any day.  What I quickly learned in August 2008 was that while I thought I loved books (and might miss them) - what I actually love is the stories in those books.  And anything that facilitates my reading more of those stories makes me very happy, indeed.


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## H7Py49 (Mar 17, 2016)

My library doesn't have every Kindle book I want to read, and sometimes I will opt to borrow a hardcover rather than purchasing the ebook.


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## KTaylor-Green (Aug 24, 2011)

I have been an avid reader all my life, since I could read. I couldn't count how many books I would read in a year. I would be at the library about 4 days out of the week. I joined book clubs to get hard backs at a reduced price. I bought paperbacks every time I went grocery shopping. Most of the time, I had space to store all those books.....til 16 years ago when I remarried and the husband was attached to a small care taker's cottage on a large grain farm. I donated most of my book collection as I was strapped for space. I only kept my art books as I am a professional artist and part time art teacher.
I discovered Kindle e-readers when the Kindle keyboard came out. I haven't read a paper book since, but I have been able to read and "own" as many books as I want. 
I have bought e-readers for many family members since then, children, grandchildren, my elderly mother.  LOL There is nothing more rabid than a convert. My current kindle is the 3rd kindle paperwhite.
Happy to be not too old to appreciate technology.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I tried sniffing a book to see what the fuss was about. It didn't do a thing for me. I've been reading for a long time, and I don't think I've ever noticed the smell of a book. I must not have developed a Pavlovian reaction. But just because it doesn't mean anything to me, don't let me stop you from sniffing books.

Until I tried a Kindle, I thought I would never like to read e-books. I tried reading on a computer screen, and didn't like it. But reading from a Kindle wasn't anything like reading for a computer screen. 

I love being able to touch the screen to get the definition of a word. I love being able to change the font size. I loved that even the oldest e-book still is as easy to read as any other. Old yellowed paper is hard to read. I like being able to play my books via text to speech, it's great when I'm in the car or just tired. I like not having to hold the e-reader open like I do with a paper book. I've read a lot more since getting an e-reader.

There are certainly advantages to reading paper books, it is simply that I value the advantages of e-books more. I still have probably 1,000 paper books in my house.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

I have some vision issues for which the ability to increase both the font size and line-spacing is the e-reader "killer app" for me. Since I got my first Kindle (2nd Gen.), I've only bought a few dead-tree books in order to fill out collections or because there was no ebook version or in a couple cases because it was a reference book (e.g. programming manual) that still tends to work better in printed form for me. But those exceptions are rare (maybe 1%* of my book purchases?).
______________
* Remembering that 64.7% of all statistics are made up


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