# Word Count for 200 Kindle Pages? (Approx.)



## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

As the title states, I was just wondering what the approximate word count is for a novel that's 200 pages on Kindle? I know it varies on how you compile the file (ie. Vellum adds more pages, Word adds less), so even a range would be great.

Thanks!

ETA: The reason I ask is because I am aiming for the UF novel I'm writing to be at least 200 pages according to Amazon's page count and need to know if I should amend my goal of 55, 000 words or not. Will 55, 000 words be enough to hit the 200 mark?


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

Figure approximately 200 words per page. More or less. My last two books were 61K for 312 KENP, 71K for 363 KENP.


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

brkingsolver said:


> Figure approximately 200 words per page. More or less. My last two books were 61K for 312 KENP, 71K for 363 KENP.


Thank you for answering!

How is KENP different than page length? I took a peek at your book Chameleon Assassin (congrats on hitting it out of the park btw!) and it says page length is 246 pages, but your KENP is 312.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Amazon's math is very fuzzy. But for the "print pages" that appear on the product page you can estimate about 250-300 words per page.  So 50k on the low end and 60k on the high end. KENPC are used to calculate pages read for  KU payments --- and I've never fully understood the math regarding that.


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

Just to add on - the page count on the Amazon sales page can be changed by uploading a paperback version. Zombie's 250-300 words per page estimate is accurate for Kindle files, so a 60,000 word book might come up as 210 pages. But if the author links a paperback version, they could increase the listed pagecount to 300 if the book is formatted to only have 200 words per page.


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## R. K. Weir (Feb 6, 2017)

I recently released a novel that was just over 70,000 words and it was listed as having 190 pages on its amazon page :/ The first book in the series which was shorter by a couple hundred words was listed as 209 pages... So, I really don't understand how it's calculated.¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I think Amazon uses something like 340 words per "page". But I also think they actually go by characters (which will include spaces and enters). At least for KENPC, though it makes sense that it goes for general page count.


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## Joseph M. Erhardt (Oct 31, 2016)

My _Dinosaur Chronicles_ collection is 60,000 words. The visible Kindle page count (until overridden by the paperback's page count) was 198. KENPC page count was 312.

So for a text-only title, 300 words per Kindle page (as shown on the book's product page) is a pretty accurate estimate. 200 words per KENPC page is also pretty accurate. But a customer only ever sees the first figure, 198 Kindle pages, and not the KENPC count.

The KENPC page is an accounting concept akin to a "standard candle" by which you are paid, if you're in Kindle Select _and_ your pages read are actually being counted. KENPC pages include some algorithmic values and equivalents for pages with illustrations, so that an illustrated history of the Crimean War, e.g., that may only have 10,000 words in it but have 200 Kindle pages, will have a KENPC count much greater than 50.

Interesting side note: If you're in Kindle Select (and assuming the page-counting works), and you price your novel at $2.99, and your word count is 83,000, a full read under the KU program will net you about as much as the royalty from a sale.


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

The answers are all over the board. I guess there's no one "right" answer when it comes to the mysterious Amazon. 

I've heard that using Vellum "ups" (for lack of a better word) your KENPC count. Do those of you who use Vellum find this to be true? Not trying to scam the system, but I don't want to be missing out on page reads by using an inferior program.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

N. D. Iverson said:


> The answers are all over the board. I guess there's no one "right" answer when it comes to the mysterious Amazon.
> 
> I've heard that using Vellum "ups" (for lack of a better word) your KENPC count. Do those of you who use Vellum find this to be true? Not trying to scam the system, but I don't want to be missing out on page reads by using an inferior program.


Actually, before the KENPC regulation, Vellum got vastly lower page counts. It was the other programs inflating page counts. Vellum stayed the same. The big factor seems to be shorter sentences and more dialogue rather than big blocks of prose and description.


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## Craig Andrews (Apr 14, 2013)

N. D. Iverson said:


> The answers are all over the board. I guess there's no one "right" answer when it comes to the mysterious Amazon.
> 
> I've heard that using Vellum "ups" (for lack of a better word) your KENPC count. Do those of you who use Vellum find this to be true? Not trying to scam the system, but I don't want to be missing out on page reads by using an inferior program.


Answers are all over the board, because people are talking about two different things. Some are talking about the estimated page count on your product page while others are talking about KENPC, which are obviously two different things.



Amanda M. Lee said:


> Actually, before the KENPC regulation, Vellum got vastly lower page counts. It was the other programs inflating page counts. Vellum stayed the same. The big factor seems to be shorter sentences and more dialogue rather than big blocks of prose and description.


Exactly. Dialogue heavy books, or those with multiple short paragraphs instead of large chunks of paragraphs, tend to be on the higher side. The reason for that is simple: dialogue and multiple paragraphs take up more real-estate on the page. More real-estate equals more pages, regardless if those are print pages or KENPC.


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Actually, before the KENPC regulation, Vellum got vastly lower page counts. It was the other programs inflating page counts. Vellum stayed the same. The big factor seems to be shorter sentences and more dialogue rather than big blocks of prose and description.


Ah, that makes more sense. I should know better than to trust self publishing urban legends


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

N. D. Iverson said:


> I've heard that using Vellum "ups" (for lack of a better word) your KENPC count. Do those of you who use Vellum find this to be true? Not trying to scam the system, but I don't want to be missing out on page reads by using an inferior program.


In my case, brkingsolver's estimate of 200 words per KENPC page is almost right on - for all my older books that were done by handcoding html and then using MobiCreator. The one book I've done so far with Vellum came at at 170 words per KENPC, a big improvement from my POV. I'm one of those who lost 20% of my original KENPC on every one of those older books when Amazon did its big adjustment about a year ago, so I'm hoping redoing the older books in Vellum will put me back where I started.


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

Right around 55k is probably your sweet spot.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

The number of print pages can be manipulated. I print 6x9 trade paperbacks, and 60K comes out to 246 pages. If you print 5x8, then you inflate the number of pages. I've had books where the KENP computes to 210 words per page and another at 185 words per page. It seems to be rather random, and Zon plays with it on the back end. Chameleon Assassin was originally 321 KENP, then mysteriously became 312 when I updated back matter with the new book.


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## R. K. Weir (Feb 6, 2017)

This may be a noob question, but where do you find how many KENCP your book is, and how is it different to what's shown on the product page? Thanks for any help!


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

R. K. Weir said:


> This may be a noob question, but where do you find how many KENCP your book is, and how is it different to what's shown on the product page? Thanks for any help!


Go to your bookshelf, then click on the "Promote and Advertise" button. Page down to:

Earn your share of the KDP Select Global Fund when customers read your books from Kindle Unlimited and the Kindle Owners' Lending Library. You'll be paid for each page individual customers read of your book, the first time they read it. To determine a book's page count in a way that works across genres and devices, we've developed the Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v2.0. Learn more
"Chameleon Assassin"
Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v2.0: 312

If the book is not in KU, a number won't be displayed.


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## MattGodbey (Jul 8, 2016)

This may not have anything to do with anything, but it seems to me most printed trade paperbacks come in right around 330 per page.


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## D A Bale (Oct 20, 2016)

The first book in my Bartender Babe Chronicles series came in at 218 pages at 58,403 words, including all front and back matter.  If you're targeting 200 pages, 55k should get you there based upon what I've seen.  That's being outside KU also.


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

N. D. Iverson said:


> I've heard that using Vellum "ups" (for lack of a better word) your KENPC count. Do those of you who use Vellum find this to be true? Not trying to scam the system, but I don't want to be missing out on page reads by using an inferior program.


It does! I've been tracking the difference. These numbers come from uploading a Vellum mobi over a standard Word document.

Was 321 KENPC; now 372
Was 141 KENPC; now 157
Was 407 KENPC; now 462

If you're selling well and are in KU, Vellum can pay for itself pretty quickly.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

Kate. said:


> It does! I've been tracking the difference. These numbers come from uploading a Vellum mobi over a standard Word document.
> 
> Was 321 KENPC; now 372
> Was 141 KENPC; now 157
> ...


And how long to pay for the Mac? I write on an $800 netbook. That price includes MS Office.


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## edwardgtalbot (Apr 28, 2010)

As far as the topic of page count on product page goes, I have the following (both of which handcoded html and converted to mobi using calibre):

-A 48,000 word book shows 152 pages
-A 99,000 word book shows 317 pages.

My other books have paperbacks (which are significantly more pages per 1000 words than the above) so I don't know what those would be calculated at. But I I were trying to make sure my book showed 200 pages on the product page, I would either have to write maybe 63,000 words or write 50,000 and publish a paperback at around 200 pages.


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

brkingsolver said:


> And how long to pay for the Mac?


The $1500 question!

Actually I do have a related question. Are you able to (I should probably note here that I am Canadian) use a second-hand Mac as a write off? I don't want to purchase a new one just for the use of Vellum and have been looking into getting an used Mac. Can you write it off as a business expense even though there won't be a real receipt accompanying it? Totally off-topic...


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

Kate. said:


> It does! I've been tracking the difference. These numbers come from uploading a Vellum mobi over a standard Word document.
> 
> Was 321 KENPC; now 372
> Was 141 KENPC; now 157
> ...


Thank you! Do you know if it has the same effect on the Amazon page count on the product page?


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## N. D. Iverson (Feb 1, 2016)

D A Bale said:


> The first book in my Bartender Babe Chronicles series came in at 218 pages at 58,403 words, including all front and back matter. If you're targeting 200 pages, 55k should get you there based upon what I've seen. That's being outside KU also.


Thank you! What program do you use to create the eBook file?


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

Page count on the product page is taken from the print book. If no print book is available, then Zon drastically underestimates it. 

No idea about Canadian taxes. In the U.S., you would need to get a receipt from the person who sold you the Mac. First, second, or third hand doesn't make a difference.


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## D A Bale (Oct 20, 2016)

N. D. Iverson said:


> Thank you! What program do you use to create the eBook file?


I just use a simple formatted Word file for now.


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

brkingsolver said:


> And how long to pay for the Mac? I write on an $800 netbook. That price includes MS Office.


MacInCloud costs $30 for thirty hours of use. It took maybe half an hour to set up and figure out and it has a slight lag, but after that it's pretty simple to use - put the document in Dropbox, open the MacInCloud application on your PC, put in your username and password, and you're now using a Mac. =)

Some people invest in a second-hand Mac but I personally wouldn't unless I was planning to use it for something other than Vellum.



N. D. Iverson said:


> Thank you! Do you know if it has the same effect on the Amazon page count on the product page?


You know, I didn't think to test that. It's a good question though! My gut instinct says Vellum won't change the product page count, or if it does it won't be by much. But it's something you could test.


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## R. K. Weir (Feb 6, 2017)

brkingsolver said:


> Go to your bookshelf, then click on the "Promote and Advertise" button. Page down to:
> 
> Earn your share of the KDP Select Global Fund when customers read your books from Kindle Unlimited and the Kindle Owners' Lending Library. You'll be paid for each page individual customers read of your book, the first time they read it. To determine a book's page count in a way that works across genres and devices, we've developed the Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) v2.0. Learn more
> "Chameleon Assassin"
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to explain this! I really appreciate it!


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