# Why is it so difficult to see where a book is in a series?



## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Why is it often so difficult to figure out if a book is part of a series, and if it is, whether it is the first one, or where it is in the sequence?

Some books will have "Third of Hornet's Throne Quartet" or something similar in gothic script on the cover.

But so many dont indicate this in any way whatsoever.  At most there will be a list of the other books on the fly-leaf, and you are left to figure out where in the sequence the current book fits. Why is this?  Are publishers worried people wont buy a book if it is part of a series?  Or am I the only one with this problem?    

It's driving me nuts.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Here are the 2 sites I always check to see if a book is in a series and where it is at in the series.

http://www.fictfact.com/
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/

On occasion, I had to go to the authors site for that info. 
Even if there was some kind of list in the book itself, I wouldn't trust it to be complete or in order.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

That's a good point.  I always have a hard time figuring out what books are in a series and where they land.  Usually I have to go third-party sources.  I can't understand why publishers wouldn't make this information clear.


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## drenfrow (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm another one who swears by http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/
I discovered it a year or so ago and I use it all the time.


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## Chris Culver (Jan 28, 2011)

What gets me is that booksellers don't make it easy, either. Surely someone at amazon.com knows the proper order of a series, and surely they could put that somewhere.  It wouldn't have to be much, just a small field in the product details. Something like '#3 in the Harry Bosch series' or 'Millenium trilogy #2.'


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for the links - I've ended up at those sites before now, trying to find this information!

Maybe this will be the one reason I might need a internet capable phone for!  So far I've not really felt the need, but really!

Oh - and also to look up reviews of movies when I'm renting a DVD.


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## alexisleno (Mar 4, 2011)

I generally search Wiki for those answers. It's particularly difficult with the wide range of Star Wars books to figure out which comes first and what trilogies they are a part of. It's very confusing.


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

I just check Goodreads - minor inconvenience.


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## prairiesky (Aug 11, 2009)

I agree.  It would be helpful if the Amazon site would simply put a number on books in a series.  I end up clicking on the author and back and forth trying to figure it out.  I do use the links mentioned, but if Amazon wants us to buy kindle books from them, it could be more helpful.


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## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

C. Culver said:


> What gets me is that booksellers don't make it easy, either. Surely someone at amazon.com knows the proper order of a series, and surely they could put that somewhere. It wouldn't have to be much, just a small field in the product details. Something like '#3 in the Harry Bosch series' or 'Millenium trilogy #2.'


I've mentioned this in another thread on the topic, but the baffling thing is that they _do_ ask for this information in the product's project page. When I go to publish a book (whether it's a paperback through CreateSpace or an e-Book through KDP), there's a field for "Series Name" and a field for "Volume in Series." But, yeah, that information doesn't end up showing up anywhere at Amazon.

I've almost figured out how to consistently add the series identifier to the title (in parentheses). It's different between the two publishing systems, and I can't get it right 100% of the time, but it can be done. It's just bizarre that the bookseller makes it so _hard_ for publishers to supply this information, even if they're willing to.


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

I check Goodreads as well - it is pretty fast. I rarely even sign in to Goodreads - just type in the book name to get the series number. 

I don't know why Amazon doesn't have the series info in the book's listing though. It seems like it would sell more books; if you liked Book 1, then you'd probably also want Books 2 and 3. Occasionally some helpful reviewer will put the series number in a review.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

DYB said:


> That's a good point. I always have a hard time figuring out what books are in a series and where they land. Usually I have to go third-party sources. I can't understand why publishers wouldn't make this information clear.


There's only so much room on the cover--and most major publishers are busy putting blurbs or quotes in the spare space.  Sometimes a book starts as a stand alone...

For mysteries: www.Stopyourekillingme.com

Great resource.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> Sometimes a book starts as a stand alone...


That's true, but I dont mind not knowing if a book is the FIRST in a series 
Its when I start reading, and the back story just keeps growing to the point where I get suspicious...and then I realise "DUH! I'm reading the third book in the series, and now I've spoiled the first one because I know that x is y's daughter, and z will die horribly because he knows that u is his cousin..." 

In all honesty though, my memory is so bad that if I wait a while all those spoilers fade quite quickly. Still annoying though.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

mashadutoit said:


> Why is it often so difficult to figure out if a book is part of a series, and if it is, whether it is the first one, or where it is in the sequence?


This drives me crazy too. I think all print books should show on the front cover and/or spine what number they are in a series. Ebooks should tell you in the description. It really bugs me when I start reading a book and realize part way through that it's the second or third in a series. I want to read things in the proper order.


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## Ben White (Feb 11, 2011)

Amazon isn't so good at this--in many cases they have the information, there's a field for the volume number which I always diligently fill in for my books, and yet that's seemingly not used for anything.  It'd be great if they showed the rest of the books in the series as links on the page--something like "This is the X book in the Y series" and then the others, in order.  It'd be simple to do, I can picture the pseudocode just writing this.  So why don't they?


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Ben White said:


> So why don't they?


Exactly. The thing is - it's not just a problem with Amazon, but a general problem with printed books as well. Apart from the odd fantasy series, it is very difficult to tell whether a book is in a series. So is it just that this is not considered important, or is there some sinister conspiracy  , wishing to prevent us from reading series in the correct order?

Seriously though - maybe publishers fear that people are less likely to buy a book if it is visibly part of a series?


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## Ben White (Feb 11, 2011)

mashadutoit said:


> Seriously though - maybe publishers fear that people are less likely to buy a book if it is visibly part of a series?


I don't want to believe this is true but you might have a point--I like to read a series in order and so would never buy the second before the first. But if I just picked up a book and it looked interesting and it didn't clearly indicate that it was the second or third or whatever in a series--or even part of a series at all--then it's possible I'd buy it.

I've been re-doing my covers recently, and one of the things I'm focusing on is putting a nice big clear volume number on them. Really, it's just common decency


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Yep. Maybe the hope is that if you did buy a book in error, and once you start reading it you find it was book five of the "Sword Emperor of Harnath Cycle" you would then rush back and buy the first four ?


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## kaotickitten (Jan 9, 2011)

I wish they would do numbers like you said.  I have since come to find Wiki to be the best source when I am needing to know what number in a series it is.


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## pixichick (Mar 1, 2011)

I know online retailers like Amazon are trying to make that easier by offering writers the chance to post the volume number in a series, so a lot of us do that.  For a book, usually somewhere in the first pages is the name of the series and all the previous books and they are in order.  As long as the book has the look inside option, you can find the list


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Ben White said:


> I don't want to believe this is true but you might have a point--I like to read a series in order and so would never buy the second before the first. But if I just picked up a book and it looked interesting and it didn't clearly indicate that it was the second or third or whatever in a series--or even part of a series at all--then it's possible I'd buy it.


And in the old days, it might have been impossible to GET the first and second while standing in a store! Very few bookstores carried the entire stock of a series--you normally had to ORDER the first few and could buy the latest. Another problem was that sometimes the first in the series was out of print. So you had to hunt it down.

Obviously less of a problem with Kindle, but it was a very real issue back in olden-times.


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## Grace Elliot (Mar 14, 2011)

I know exactly what you mean. I love the Lisa Kleypas books and they are in 'series' eg, the Wallflower, the Hathaways, ...and sometimes I'm not even sure which series they belong to. Each book is a stand alone story in itself but quite often characters are introduced who then have their own story in a later novel...so a nice clear Hathaway 1 , Hathaway 2, would make a lot of sense....unless of course it a ploy to make us go back and read a book again.....


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

MariaESchneider said:


> And in the old days, it might have been impossible to GET the first and second while standing in a store! Very few bookstores carried the entire stock of a series--you normally had to ORDER the first few and could buy the latest. Another problem was that sometimes the first in the series was out of print. So you had to hunt it down.
> 
> Obviously less of a problem with Kindle, but it was a very real issue back in olden-times.


"Less of" but still often a problem with Kindle -- all too often, for those older books, they still aren't out on Kindle and are out of print and only two people in the world, one in Yugoslavia (does it still exist as such?) and one deep in the jungles of South Africa, have an old half-torn-up copy for sale on ebay for astronomical prices....well, you get my point.


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## Prazzie (Oct 25, 2009)

mashadutoit said:


> Maybe this will be the one reason I might need a internet capable phone for! So far I've not really felt the need, but really!


Nonsense, you have a Kindle! Here's what you do. When you start a new series, launch the Kindle browser and find a site with the book order. Usually the author's site will have it, or Wikipedia, or use the links already provided in this thread. Bookmark that page on your Kindle browser. Then, when you're ready to order the next title in the series, just check that bookmarked page and search for it in the Kindle store.


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## brianrowe (Mar 10, 2011)

*If a book is a part of a published series, whether it's a trilogy or twelve books in all, the number it is in the series should be CLEARLY STATED on the front cover, particularly for those books in a series that all have different titles. On Amazon it usually says what number it is, but in bookstores, yes, it can be confusing. The number should go somewhere on the front cover, and on the spine as well, kind of like how the Harry Potter books says "Year One, Year Two," and so on, on the spines. *


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Prazzie said:


> Nonsense, you have a Kindle! Here's what you do.


Sorry Prazzie, I was not clear. I meant that it may be worth getting a phone for situations when I'm at the library or bookshop, so I can look up that information on the internet. I have a Wifi only Kindle, and here in South Africa the free Wifi hotspots are few and far between, so using my Kindle to browse in these situations not really an option.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

pixichick said:


> For a book, usually somewhere in the first pages is the name of the series and all the previous books and they are in order. As long as the book has the look inside option, you can find the list


But have you noticed that they never specify _where_ in the list the book you are holding belongs?

For example, if you flip open your copy of "Big Bad Boars", you will see the other books in that series listed like this:
"Big Bad Wolves"
"Big Bad Bears"

Problem is, they usually leave out the title of the book that the list is printed in, because the list is usually "other books by the same author". So "Big Bad Boars" may be the first, second or third book in that series. No way to tell! 

Or anyway, that's been my experience. Maybe there are cases where this is indicated?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

If you go to a place like Fantastic Fiction, you can get the list. . .if it's an author you're pretty sure you'll want to read all of ( or re-read) you can copy and paste the list into a .txt document and put it on your Kindle.  Then you'll have your usual authors in a ready reference.

With the new Notebook 'active' app that just came out (available to those in the US) you could use it to write up the list and could then even edit and add to it.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Aah! The notebook app.  Probably the only app that I want, and...

Cant get it in South Africa  

Anyway, thanks for all the helpful suggestions and links everyone!  Glad to know I'm not the only one who has this problem.


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## L.J. Sellers novelist (Feb 28, 2010)

Most booksellers and publishers don't want the series number visible in the book because they think it could hurt sales. Some new readers won't try a book if they know it's the fourth in the series and they haven't read the first three. But the bookstore may not have the other titles in stock or can't get them, so they worry that the customer will simply pass on the new release. The publisher wants to pick up new readers on the strength of the new release's title, cover, or book description, then hopes the new readers will look for more work by the author and discover the rest of the series. 

At least that used to be the thinking when most people bought books off the shelf. In the digital age, there's very little excuse for not providing the information. I recently added the series number to my subtitles. I worried it would hurt sales, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that it didn't.
L.J.


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

And you're one of those kinds of reviewers that I love, for doing that...


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Unfortunately I am one of those obsessed ones, that just has to read books in order of the series. I don't even get a sample of a book now before checking fantasticfiction, just to make sure.  . 

I read a lot of romance, historical, and there are a lot of connected series. Sometimes They aren't even marked as a series, but have recurring characters. I am that obsessed I have to read the first published first  

I also change the meta data in calibre and so the title of books comes first, then the name of the series and 1o5 after that. 

I put all my read books in a data sheet and put that info in there also. So I can see, oh, I read until 3of5, let me now read 4of5. 

Am I the only one obsessed with reading stuff in order? Even if there are just some characters recurring, not really for plot?


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

This doesn't really help you first figure out books in a series but I have seen members here use Calibre to change the titles on their books to include the series numbers, I think luvmybrats does that. It would certainly help keep in track of them after you have purchased them.


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## Rose Gordon (Mar 18, 2011)

mashadutoit said:


> Seriously though - maybe publishers fear that people are less likely to buy a book if it is visibly part of a series?


That's the odd part to me. Many authors write in books in a series. At least in the genre I read they do. However, publishers (traditional more than Indies) don't advertise it, and I'd actually think it would be more beneficial to them if they did. People like books with overlapping characters or a continuous subplot/storyline. You'd think they'd capitalize on that and make more sales because a reader sees, "Title, #2 in Whatever Series", and is more likely to go buy number one, too. I know I do that. Whether I have a true interest in the other book originally or not, I'm more inclined to buy it because it comes in the series before the one I found that did strike my interest.


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## Chris Culver (Jan 28, 2011)

Here's an interesting aside. Since most of us are kindle owners, we probably don't go to Barnes and Noble very often - that said, Barnes and Noble does include the series number in its descriptions. I hadn't noticed that before.

Look at the description for Spider Bones by Kathy Reichs.

If Barnes and Noble does it, it might not be too long before Amazon jumps on the bandwagon.


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## RobertLCollins (Feb 1, 2011)

Strange that this problem hadn't occurred to me, since I have one novel published that's the first in a series, and some eventually-to-be-published collections of short stories with recurring characters. This is something that we self-published authors need to think about, since we don't have publishers doing it for us.

Slightly off-topic, but your question brings up one of the problems that put Borders in the mess they're in now. I read a blog by an agent a couple months back on the Borders situation; can't remember the name or web address now, so if someone could help, it'd be appreciated. Anyway, the agent noted that Borders stores would order what was selling in that store. Good idea, but the agent wrote that this practice led to trouble in the area of book series. Some stores would have the latest books in a series, but not the first since the earlier titles were no longer selling. This may not have been horrible for authors, but I'll bet some lost sales or even contracts because of this.


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## Aaron Pogue (Feb 18, 2011)

Rose Gordon said:


> That's the odd part to me. Many authors write in books in a series. At least in the genre I read they do. However, publishers (traditional more than Indies) don't advertise it, and I'd actually think it would be more beneficial to them if they did.


You're right. I've heard it said that publishers significantly prefer to acquire a book if it's going to be part of a series (and that if a book does well they'll encourage the writer to _make_ it a series, whether that was intended or not).

Strange, then, that they're not selling them that way.


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## TaniaLT (Oct 16, 2010)

I had this problem with JD RObb's series but now they're out on Kindle, they've been numbered. 32!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this version of the 'series problem'  thread, but this site: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/ is great for figuring out series order. You can print the list and keep it on your Kindle if you want -- if you have the Notepad application this is a great use for it!


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2011)

Just to add to what was said above, I was told by a marketer that they don't like to tell you where a book is if it is part of a series, because some customers won't pick it up if it's the third book and not the first. Then the reader never buys the first because they don't remember to, so the publisher loses the sale. They'd rather you bought it, read it, and then realised there were others. That seems to apply to paperbacks more than ebooks though, since online you just go to the e-book of the first.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

This has annoyed the heck out of me. I get the argument. Heck, it even worked on me once. (I was in an airport faced with an impulse buy. I ended up with a book 3 of a series by accident, got hooked, and tracked down the rest when I got back into town.) What drives me crazy is when I have the whole series in front of me and can barely figure out the order. I can think of two times that authors lost my impulse purchase due to the frustration induced by figuring out which title to read first. Numbers on the spine should really should become the standard. If mangas can do that and thrive, so can book series. 

That or the author could be inventive and create their series titles in alphabetical order...


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## JustDucky83 (Mar 20, 2011)

I find that too with certain books, I haven't got into many series myself. But when I am checking them out I get a little confused. I think the best way is just to put a big 1,2 ,3... after each one


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## ScottF (Mar 29, 2011)

Yeah, it's a marketing strategy. Any of the books in a series have to work as stand-alone stories, as well as plug in to the larger mythos. Pull the reader in to the fictional world first, then tell them there's more to it.

It's the same with TV series that feature season-long story arcs. Each episode needs to be able to stand alone for syndication purposes (where episodes are often run out of order). Viewers who are hooked by those episodes, have to go digging around to find out where they belong in the full series.

A pain in the neck and counter-intuitive, but if it didn't work they wouldn't do it.


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## kCopeseeley (Mar 15, 2011)

This is so true.  It used to be, back in the day, that there would be a list of the books before the one in your hand.  Oh, and the cover would actually say "the sequel to..." or "#2".
I gave up on the PC Cast books, because it was so hard to track down the first book.  Oh, and IMO you shouldn't have to check at website to know where you're at with a series.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

ScottF said:


> A pain in the neck and counter-intuitive, but if it didn't work they wouldn't do it.


That is possible, Scott, but I'm wondering how you would track if this works? There is no way to record lost sales because people were uncertain if a book was the first of a series, or gave up trying to figure out where it fits in.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

If you really want to get confused (and who doesn't?), try figuring out the order in which to read Steven Brust's "Vlad Taltos" novels, as they were published (and presumably written?) in a non-chronological order.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

NogDog said:


> If you really want to get confused (and who doesn't?), try figuring out the order in which to read Steven Brust's "Vlad Taltos" novels, as they were published (and presumably written?) in a non-chronological order.


_The Chronicles of Narnia_ offer a similar problem. . . . .Sets used to be sold in one order, which is not chronological to the story but in the order they were written, but at some point the publisher/rights holder decided they should be in a different order.


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