# Have you noticed an audio price hike? Or, WTF is going on with whisper?



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Well have you? Whisper sync used to be $1.99 across the board for my books, and I cried and cried and cried when it first happened. Then I saw my royalties, danced for joy, and laughed and laughed and laughed.

Fast forward 4 years, and after coming off the high of a new book launch I noticed a serious downswing in audio sales (like serious, I'm talking less than 20 a day down from a high of almost 70 a day) and I figure it's Chris Fox's fault (hi Chris, waves)

But it wasn't!

Using one of those hide me thingies, I investigated my sales pages at .com to see an actual price rather than a "You're in the wrong place" notification and I find ALL except ONE book is now priced $7.49 when bought with the kindle version! So... far from crying about the price being too low, I now have to cry about it being too high. 

Unless...

I see an upswing in royalties inline with the drop in sales. So, did they decide my stuff is all old hat now and take me off the cheap whisper list? Hmmm... what is your experience?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I just checked mine. I only have three books out, but one of them has been raised to $7.49. Ugh.

ETA: it was whispersynched at $3.49 originally, though, not $1.99.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

At a guess I'd say Amazon are trying to funnel people into taking out membership subscriptions.


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## readingril (Oct 29, 2010)

All Amazon is doing for this reader/listener/"I like a good deal on an audiobook " is dissuading me from purchasing companion audiobooks! I've noticed this trend with almost all the Whispersync titles where I've purchased the Kindle version.


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## AlecHutson (Sep 26, 2016)

My book has also been bumped up to 7.49 (from 1.99) and it has only been in audio for 6 weeks. Might be across the board.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

I wonder if they're using variable pricing for these. That is to say, they may be changing the price that you see based on anything from your local time, to purchase history, to viewing history, to the strength of the British Pound, &c. We're used to setting our own prices and having those be a fixed, known quantity, but that's not actually how a lot of pricing works on Amazon. They didn't collect all those data for their health.

Condolences to those who're losing revenue to this. Hope it gets sorted somehow. Maybe you can get a seven-figure, audiobook-only deal like Michael Sullivan? I guess that's a thing now.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

I saw this a couple of days ago and didn't realize the $7.49 price I was seeing was the sync price. Yes, it's on mine too. Also, when i went and looked at the book pages on Amazon, I noticed the display was different. for Spaceship, for instance, which has only three editions, it used to be that a link would show up, clearly displayed, for all three editions, regardless of which version I was looking at. Now, when I click into the Kindle edition (for instance) all three options show up-- Kindle, Print, Audio-- and then the box displaying the audiobook edition disappears. it's buried under the "see all 3 formats and editions" link now.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Just checked my romance novel and it's still at $1.99 to sync.  It was never a very good seller, although in the last month it's sold about 60 copies because of a free promo.


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## Salvador Mercer (Jan 1, 2015)

Mine is still synched at $2.99 so far (US Market).


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

size might be a factor. My books priced at $7.49 are 10-11 hours.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

GeneDoucette said:


> size might be a factor. My books priced at $7.49 are 10-11 hours.


Mine are the same, but my boxed sets are 3 times the size and have become $7.49 as well. One 12 hour book is still $1.99. Totally random. Might be a sales thing. The fewer sales come in over time, the higher the price goes? My back list is getting on a bit now.

Dunno.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2017)

I've heard that ACX books are suffering a price hike. I haven't heard this from book through audio pubs. All of mine are through traditional audio pub, length varies, and the whispersync price is the same.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

My books are only seven hours or so and one of them has still gone up in price.


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## Adair Hart (Jun 12, 2015)

Just checked mine. 

Prequel novella (2 hours) : 1.99
Book 1  (5 hours): 7.49
Book 2 (10 hours): 7.49
Book 3 (11 hours): 7.49
Box Set (26 hours): 1.99


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I think it's going to be impossible to see how it plays out from a financial standpoint until we get our first royalty reports. My numbers are down a bit but I didn't move the bulk of my sales through Whispersync anyway. I'm really close to pushing that number to a solid five figures a month (finally!) so I'm anxious to see if this puts me back again.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

My sales proportions have changed dramatically since the price hikes, and overall down.

My lifetime sales are about 23% AL, 43% ALOP, and 33% ALC.

My recent percentages are more like 60%, 20%, 20%. Given that AL means Audible credits and the other two some form of retail, it appears a 350%+ price hike on whispersync is hurting retail sales a lot.

Now I never liked the super-cheap whispersync add-on, but it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle now that people are used to it. It's also somewhat un-Amazon-like, in that they are usually pushing for cheaper prices rather than raising them hugely.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

David VanDyke said:


> My sales proportions have changed dramatically since the price hikes, and overall down.
> 
> My lifetime sales are about 23% AL, 43% ALOP, and 33% ALC.
> 
> ...


And they never do anything without a plan. I'm looking for the other shoe to drop.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Mm, all of mine have upped in price, including Bloomsbury/Audible pub'd (but not the Tantor ones, oddly). This definitely impacts on future sales projections and whether I commit to any more audible titles.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

David VanDyke said:


> My sales proportions have changed dramatically since the price hikes, and overall down.
> 
> My lifetime sales are about 23% AL, 43% ALOP, and 33% ALC.
> 
> ...


Whatever changes they have going on, it crushed the tail on the Daily Deal I had in March. I'm seeing lower audio sales overall than I have more or less since my first book went live last September.


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

$7 is still a better bargain on audiobooks than buying credits from Audible. It may be a little bit of sticker shock for a while, but $1.99 was practically giving the audiobooks away before. 

I enjoyed the lower prices as a listener while they lasted, too, but these things are so expensive to make and when your royalties and prices are less than your ebooks, a small bump should be a little better, yeah? Not sure if I would have picked a price point so high... maybe gradually or like others said, maybe incremental for length.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

their Daily Deal books are usually $3.99-$4.99. maybe the goal here was to increase the value of those deals?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I've been noticing that some audios I wanted to buy through whispersync are anywhere from $3.49 to $7.49. I thought they were maybe trad pubbed audios. Now that I see this thread, I guess not. 

Some of mine are still $1.99 but others are $7.49. 

I bundled one series into three and the whispersync prices are $1.99, $1.99 and $7.49. The second and third are about the same length.

That also explains why I'm seeing more AL sales which are definitely more profitable. 

So, it's wait and see as usual.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

I've also had a rash of returns. I wonder if this is because people are listening and returning, or buying a whispersync and realizing they were charged a lot more than they expected.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

David VanDyke said:


> I've also had a rash of returns. I wonder if this is because people are listening and returning, or buying a whispersync and realizing they were charged a lot more than they expected.


I've only had one return but that was in April. It was quite a shock after four years to see that.


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## Scott Reeves (May 27, 2011)

I base this on nothing, but my guess is they're raising the prices to drive people into a Prime-style unlimited audiobook subscription plan that they're about to unveil.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Scott Reeves said:


> I base this on nothing, but my guess is they're raising the prices to drive people into a Prime-style unlimited audiobook subscription plan that they're about to unveil.


I don't think that would work with audios. We've invested thousands into producing audios and we make little enough on each whispersync sale especially after they lowered the royalty rate. A subscription service would probably pay even less and make it harder to recoup our investment.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

Scott Reeves said:


> I base this on nothing, but my guess is they're raising the prices to drive people into a Prime-style unlimited audiobook subscription plan that they're about to unveil.


That's an interesting idea.

If Amazon were to pay $0.0045 per minute listened to, an author would earn $2.70 for a full listen on a 10-hour audiobook.

That is, of course, until Amazon launched its Audio Flip feature. (Just kidding.)


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Anarchist said:


> If Amazon were to pay $0.0045 per minute listened to, an author would earn $2.70 for a full listen on a 10-hour audiobook.
> 
> That is, of course, until Amazon launched its Audio Flip feature. (Just kidding.)


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Scott Reeves said:


> I base this on nothing, but my guess is they're raising the prices to drive people into a Prime-style unlimited audiobook subscription plan that they're about to unveil.


I've heard this rumor also, but at this stage I believe it is just a rumor.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

D-C said:


> I've heard this rumor also, but at this stage I believe it is just a rumor.


Amazon do nothing without a plan. Will we see a "Netflix for audio streaming" one day?


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm seeing my percentages change a bit, perhaps now that people have gotten over the sticker shock. 

Specifically, I'm seeing more ALC (pure retail) purchases, to the point that my percentages are now about 55%, 10%, 35%. It's the Audible members buying retail without credits that seem to have taken the biggest hit. I wonder why?


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## PenNPaper (Apr 21, 2016)

D-C said:


> I've heard this rumor also, but at this stage I believe it is just a rumor.


It's not.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Are ALC purchases the ones that include Whispersync?


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Mine are all at $7.49 as well, even the short novella.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Mine are now all $8.99! It doesn't seem to have affected sales though.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

David VanDyke said:


> I'm seeing my percentages change a bit, perhaps now that people have gotten over the sticker shock.
> 
> Specifically, I'm seeing more ALC (pure retail) purchases, to the point that my percentages are now about 55%, 10%, 35%. It's the Audible members buying retail without credits that seem to have taken the biggest hit. I wonder why?


My percentages have also changed. Most are nearly ZERO. My Audio Empire died in the night. No one was by his bedside. No one noticed.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Mark, do you have any permafrees? I find they sell a lot of audiobooks.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

David VanDyke said:


> Mark, do you have any permafrees? I find they sell a lot of audiobooks.


All my book 1s (4 series) are permafree. This is how the empire collapsed:

Amazon created the free list, and reduced visibility of free by 50% (audio sales decline instantly by half)
Amazon introduce Kindle Unlimited, and more people borrow than download free (audio sales decline again)
Amazon introduced KU 2.0 (and I don't see why, but audio sales decline)
I release a new book. Sales explode again (back to old level for about 4 months)
Amazon intro price hike (and sales go from a high of 68 a day, to under 10 a day)


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

I did get my May money recently, and it seems as if average earnings per book sold went up from something like $2.60 to about $3.00.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

David VanDyke said:


> I did get my May money recently, and it seems as if average earnings per book sold went up from something like $2.60 to about $3.00.


Mine is around $4.50, but volume of sales is way down.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Mine is around $4.50, but volume of sales is way down.


I saw a slight uptick to $4.69 average per, and the volume of sales are down here too. I'm rolling out shorter novellas in audio format soon, which should pull the average per down a lot.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

We view this through the lens of being an indie author. A huge percentage of audio sales come through the larger audio producers, producers Audible wants to keep happy. They care a lot more about what Podium or Tantor think than about what you and I do. For all we know these studios might be lobbying for higher prices.

Even if they aren't, this has the advantage of raising perceived value of audiobooks. At first, people will balk. Eventually, they'll just start paying more for audio. Some won't. Most will. I probably will, though I'll think a bit harder when I press that buy button. In the end, it will probably lead to more profit, but as others have said we'll have to wait until our first royalty statement.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

PhoenixS said:


> Hmmm. July 1 is close.
> 
> Let's think...what other major programs has Amazon rolled out on July 1?
> 
> If I were a betting gal...


oooh, oooh, *pounds table*


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

My audio sales have totally tanked by about 75% this month since my price went up.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

PhoenixS said:


> Hmmm. July 1 is close.
> 
> Let's think...what other major programs has Amazon rolled out on July 1?
> 
> If I were a betting gal...


Now I'm depressed. I need ice cream.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

sela said:


> My audio sales have totally tanked by about 75% this month since my price went up.


This mirrors my situation. I've even fired up the Facebook Ads again (which stopped working for my audio a couple of years ago when I used up my newsletter audiences)


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

sela said:


> My audio sales have totally tanked by about 75% this month since my price went up.


I saw this starting to happen in May, but I'm having trouble tying it to entirely whispersync's price change. I say that because I don't think most of my sales came from Whisper cross-sales. It feels more like they're altering the marketplace and pushing different books.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

GeneDoucette said:


> I saw this starting to happen in May, but I'm having trouble tying it to entirely whispersync's price change. I say that because I don't think most of my sales came from Whisper cross-sales. It feels more like they're altering the marketplace and pushing different books.


https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/ku/retail-promotions-page/ref=as_li_ss_tl?mode=KU2017PrimeDay


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/ku/retail-promotions-page/ref=as_li_ss_tl?mode=KU2017PrimeDay


this doesn't look new to me. Offering KU through Prime, okay, but KU books whispersynced isn't new.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

GeneDoucette said:


> this doesn't look new to me. Offering KU through Prime, okay, but KU books whispersynced isn't new.


It isn't offering whisper sync. It's offering unlimited audio (on the right)


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> It isn't offering whisper sync. It's offering unlimited audio (on the right)


Hmmmmmm.



> Unlimited Listening
> Thousands of Kindle books come with the free professionally narrated Audible audiobook. With Whispersync for Voice, whenever you see "Kindle Unlimited with Narration," you can switch seamlessly between reading and listening without ever losing your place. Just pop in your headphones, tap the play button, and keep the story going...in the car, in the gym, in the kitchen, wherever your day takes you.


I think they're over-stating something here, to be honest. One line saying 'thousands of kindle books come with the free audiobook" and then the rest is about whispersync. I'm still not 100% sure anything's actually different.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

GeneDoucette said:


> Hmmmmmm.
> 
> I think they're over-stating something here, to be honest. One line saying 'thousands of kindle books come with the free audiobook" and then the rest is about whispersync. I'm still not 100% sure anything's actually different.


Apparently it's something that not everyone is invited to (I'm not). It is coming/here, though.


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> It isn't offering whisper sync. It's offering unlimited audio (on the right)


A reader friend was asking me about this because she was looking at KU and considering joining if she got free audio as well. (She figured it would be a much better deal than an Audible subscription - which is what makes it hard to believe they can do this without a KU price hike.) But we couldn't work out how to see which books are included.

If it's invite only, maybe it's more like Prime Reading than KU (but available to KU members)? Could that potentially explain a hit in visibility to everyone else's audio books as well? If thousands of audio books were receiving ranking boosts (like the Prime reads books do every three months), I assume that would have a bigger effect in audio than it does in the kindle store since there are so many fewer audio books overall?


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

I've been following this thread with eagerness or concern, not sure which.  

Since Amazon put my audibles up to $7.49 I've barely sold an add-on Audible, although I'm selling about the same through Audible, which isn't a lot. Over three Audibles only 37 in June as opposed to 66 in April before this thing started. I haven't worked out how to promote these darn things but I still make more from them than if I'd left the money in the bank and received interest, and each of my audibles cost about $2,500 to produce because I used top notch narrators. So I didn't mind how slow the sales were, they are an investment.

I've checked through Audible with Kindle Unlimited thing and I see that the books which have the audible symbol next to Kindle Unlimited near the purchase box are included. Those, which don't like mine, are not.

I don't think there are thousands available so far because when I check the Kindle Unlimited box and 'ebooks with audible narration' box together I get 27,226 books. However, these are not all the included audibles.

One of my readers has written to Amazon to ask them what it all means and is reporting back. I guess we could do that too, but I haven't had time and I didn't think it was worth my time, knowing they'll probably not tell us anything anyway.

I did also notice in checking with this headphone symbol that all the books included seem to be Amazon imprints. I also noticed that all the imprint books seem to be priced as $1.99 add ons and have not been moved up to the 'please don't add me on' price.

I don't think it is a Prime Reads type of thing as one of my books was in the first round of invitation in that program and that was sent out a good four or five weeks before launch in October. So if they had invited some indies, someone would have let the cat out of the bag. '

I don't know if it was this thread or another, discussing this as a way to lowball payment, like in Prime Reads but I have to say I was paid well for my book in Prime Reads, since it ranks pretty well and I didn't notice any loss in page reads from KU or sales while it ran from Jan-March. The money was just a bonus plus my ranking was really high for the whole three months, like top #200 to #300 if I remember rightly. 

Recently they asked for another book for Prime Reads offering the same amount. This book was only published last October, whereas my other was November 2015. I was surprised because I though that they would probably offer less since it doesn't have quite the track record of my other one, nor as many reviews (although they are so hard to come by these days). Still they offered the same amount, which I think from reading around the traps is the highest figure they pay, although maybe authors that rank in the top #100 get paid even higher and they just don't talk about it. I also thought they may have adjusted the offers thinking they can get away with paying less, but not so.

So I'm not adverse to Amazon renting my book or Audible from me. The money they pay some authors is higher than most contracts from a publisher and higher than Kindle Scout.

Anyway, that is my observations to add to the mix.  Something is definitely happening with Audible. I'm not surprised they are doing this, Amazon is all about offering as much as possible to lock people into subscription. It's the way of the world now.


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## Rachelle Ayala (Nov 15, 2011)

Playster.com started offering unlimited audiobooks and running ads against Audible. I've seen them in my Facebook feed.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Well have you? Whisper sync used to be $1.99 across the board for my books, and I cried and cried and cried when it first happened. Then I saw my royalties, danced for joy, and laughed and laughed and laughed.
> 
> Fast forward 4 years, and after coming off the high of a new book launch I noticed a serious downswing in audio sales (like serious, I'm talking less than 20 a day down from a high of almost 70 a day) and I figure it's Chris Fox's fault (hi Chris, waves)
> 
> ...


Havent seen a hike


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

I may well be a week behind the times, but I just noticed on our anchor author's ebook pages where she has the audiobook contracted through Audible (not ACX), the KU button now says "Read and Listen for Free." Still appears to just say "Read for Free" for non-Audible renditions. And hers are still Whispersync'd to $1.99.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

One of my readers wrote to Audible about the Kindle Unlimited deal and this is the reply below. The interesting thing is the link to show all the available Kindle Unlimited books with Narration for free as well: https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=amb_link_422999562_4?ie=UTF8&node=9630682011 Currently there are 4,273 books available and other than some major titles with publisher Houghton Mifflin Harcourt the few I looked at seem to be Amazon imprints.

_Thank you for contacting Audible!

Kindle Unlimited is an Amazon based subscription service that makes about 700,000 Kindle eBooks available for unlimited borrowing (up 10 at a time) to its members. About 2,000 of these titles come with free narration, so when you borrow one of these Kindle Unlimited eBooks, you'll also automatically borrow the audiobook version of the book. Also, about 5,000 additional Kindle Unlimited eBooks are Whispersync for Voice-ready, so you can usually purchase the companion audiobook for a discount if you're already borrowing the eBook version of the book. When you have a Whispersync for Voice-ready eBook in your library along with its companion audiobook, you'll be able to switch between reading the eBook to listening to the audiobook without losing your place.

For more information about Kindle Unlimited and Whispersync for Voice, please visit our Help Center: http://audible.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4922/

Further, you can go through the below link to access the free audible narration available with kindle unlimited subscription:

https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=amb_link_422999562_4?ie=UTF8&node=9630682011_


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

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## Ava Glass (Feb 28, 2011)

Amazon Video Direct already knows how to calculate royalties based on how long a customer has streamed a title. Down to the second, apparently.

https://videodirect.amazon.com/home/help?topicId=202037410



> Included with Amazon Prime
> 
> The applicable revenue rate set forth in the table below is multiplied by the number of hours viewed up to an annual period cap of 500,000 hours per title. For example, if a title has 2.5 hours of streaming from U.S. customers, the payment would be $0.37. We log and calculate customer streaming to the second.


Could an "Audible Unlimited" or whatever have a similar scheme?


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## MattHaggis (May 1, 2017)

TwistedTales said:


> Quote
> Included with Amazon Prime
> 
> The applicable revenue rate set forth in the table below is multiplied by the number of hours viewed up to an annual period cap of 500,000 hours per title. For example, if a title has 2.5 hours of streaming from U.S. customers, the payment would be $0.37. We log and calculate customer streaming to the second.
> ...


That's over $3 for a decent sized epic fantasy book, which is fine by me.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

TwistedTales said:


> At .37c for 2.5 hours audio time the book would need to be 20 hours long. Is that a common length? I don't listen to audio so I don't know what the most common length is.


_The Way of Kings_ is over 45 hours long. _A Game of Thrones_ is 34 hours. _A Dance with Dragons_ is 49 hours. _The Eye of the World_ is 30 hours. _The Name of the Wind_ is 28 hours. _Theft of Swords_ and _The Blade Itself_ are 22 hours. _The Once and Future King_ is 33 hours.

So, yeah, 20 hours for an epic fantasy novel isn't unreasonable. It's an uncommon length for most genres, but not epic fantasy.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

TwistedTales said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I have books at around 800 - 1,000 pages (between 170,000 - 240,000 words). Do you know what they would roughly translate to in audio hours?
> 
> I still don't like the current options or market for audio, so I'm not planning to do any yet. I'm just curious.


No, but we would have to stop producing individual titles. Only boxed set (really long audio in other words) would be profitable at 0.37 per 2.5 hours. My books are usually 12hrs -15hrs and are between 100k-120k words.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

PhoenixS said:


> I think they are Audible-contracted books (which would include the Amazon imprints). Our anchor author has 33 titles in at that link, which is about 80% of the titles she has contracted with Audible. And none of her Mira-produced titles are in. No clue why all the Audible books aren't in, though. There's a 5-book series, for instance, where only 3 of the 5 books are in. Thankfully, it's a themed collection and all the books are standalones. But, uh, why just some and not all?]


So are you saying that your author has free Audibles in this deal & you weren't aware? So how will they be paid?



TwistedTales said:


> At .37c for 2.5 hours audio time the book would need to be 20 hours long. Is that a common length? I don't listen to audio so I don't know what the most common length is.


My books are dark thrillers & around 95k & they are between 10 & 12 hours, so 37c would not be great but would be better than the $0 I've been getting since they put my books up to $7.49 & better than the $0.80 I was getting before. What I don't understand is why some went up & some didn't. The fact they can do this without reference to the author is really disappointing.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

But ACX audios aren't considered Audible, even though they're exclusive to Audible?


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I just received the latest ACX report. Royalty per unit is much higher after the price hike, but as expected sales are way down. Overall, monthly income from audio sales is down by about 20%


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I just received the latest ACX report. Royalty per unit is much higher after the price hike, but as expected sales are way down. Overall, monthly income from audio sales is down by about 20%


Interesting. My per-book average is about the same, at $4.42 or so. Just means I was getting few audio sales via whispersync, i guess.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

GeneDoucette said:


> Interesting. My per-book average is about the same, at $4.42 or so. Just means I was getting few audio sales via whispersync, i guess.


I've had 4 series starters at permafree for years. Those used to get quite a few WS sales I think. I have recently pushed prices up to $2.99 with AMS aimed at them.

Do you use free?


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I've had 4 series starters at permafree for years. Those used to get quite a few WS sales I think. I have recently pushed prices up to $2.99 with AMS aimed at them.
> 
> Do you use free?


No, I don't. The full novels are priced at $5.99 and the novellas at $2.99. Only a couple of the novellas were in audio for the month in question, and weren't synced yet, I'm pretty sure.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Mine is around $4.50, but volume of sales is way down.


Mine rose to about $4 a copy this payout month (June). This has kept my earnings fairly steady, even as number of sales dropped.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

David VanDyke said:


> Mine rose to about $4 a copy this payout month (June). This has kept my earnings fairly steady, even as number of sales dropped.


As we know, all the various kinds of sale receive differing amounts in royalty. With that taken into account, mine rose to $5.72 per sale this month (June). That's an average, taken by dividing all units sold of a particular series into the royalty received.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't really pay attention to "per sale." I just know I made about 4K less for the month than I did under a cheap WhisperSync.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I don't really pay attention to "per sale." I just know I made about 4K less for the month than I did under a cheap WhisperSync.


Yeah, sucks. I keep close watch with a DIY spreadsheet. I used to use it to push the "right" books. By right, I mean the ones paying the most. I don't anymore but keeping track is a habit now.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I don't really pay attention to "per sale." I just know I made about 4K less for the month than I did under a cheap WhisperSync.





Amanda M. Lee said:


> I don't really pay attention to "per sale." I just know I made about 4K less for the month than I did under a cheap WhisperSync.


Just thought I'd check in to see how everyone is faring down the track with Audible. Mine are very low now. Hardly sell any whisperSync now. I was annoyed when I first did an Audible and saw you only got $1.99 but now you see that they were an add-on bonus to the book sale (at least for me).

The other thing I find unfair is that Amazon imprints WhisperSync, at least the ones I checked, are still at $1.99, which is quite the advantage. This is made me consider not going through ACX for next Audible. Probably wise anyway but I'm not sure how WhisperSync is handled if you go a different route. Maybe you don't get to WhisperSync if you are not through ACX. Does anyone know?


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## CallMeRed (May 12, 2016)

Mine are very low now too. It's very frustrating because I paid up front and at this rate it will now take years and years to earn back. Before the price hike I expected to recoup my investment within one year on each book. It makes me not want to make more audiobooks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

CallMeRed said:


> Mine are very low now too. It's very frustrating because I paid up front and at this rate it will now take years and years to earn back. Before the price hike I expected to recoup my investment within one year on each book. It makes me not want to make more audiobooks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think it's going to pay to make full-length audiobooks anymore unless it's royalty share. At $7.49, the narrator and the author each get $1.50. Of course, that's only if the audio sells at that price. At least, there's no up-front investment.

My novelettes and novellas are still $1.99 and two of them are grandfathered in at 50%.

It's all very discouraging.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

SusanMayWriter said:


> Just thought I'd check in to see how everyone is faring down the track with Audible. Mine are very low now. Hardly sell any whisperSync now. I was annoyed when I first did an Audible and saw you only got $1.99 but now you see that they were an add-on bonus to the book sale (at least for me).
> 
> The other thing I find unfair is that Amazon imprints WhisperSync, at least the ones I checked, are still at $1.99, which is quite the advantage. This is made me consider not going through ACX for next Audible. Probably wise anyway but I'm not sure how WhisperSync is handled if you go a different route. Maybe you don't get to WhisperSync if you are not through ACX. Does anyone know?


My royalties are about twenty percent lower. I was at right about 10K a month and now it's more like 8K a month. It's annoying but it is what it is.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> My royalties are about twenty percent lower. I was at right about 10K a month and now it's more like 8K a month. It's annoying but it is what it is.


Yes, same here. As I said up thread royalties per unit sold is higher for me, but volume is down. A 20% cut in audio wages is in line with my current experience.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

I can't tell what normal is. I only have a year of data, and the payouts per month have been completely all over the map. Audible has promoted two of my books on different occasions over the course of those twelve months, and and I put 14 books into audio in that time. It's just impossible to say.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback. I would still do Audibles for my books because as long they earn more per month than what I would get having the money in the bank, it's still a good investment. At least they are done and I don't have to think about them again.

It's just a shame that now we are losing on the bonus sales and that income is down.  I'm sure they see it in their figures, so they obviously have another game plan in mind. It really was an odd move by them and I can't figure out why they did it other than maybe the Amazon whispersync sales were cannibalizing Audible sales.

I paid for my audibles outright but when I mentioned it to my narrator recently, when discussing the next audible, he said he'd heard about this from other narrators that their author's whispersync sales were down too. Kind of feel like this is another hit along with everything else. Do you think it's worth writing to Amazon about the change in price and the impact on sales or is it a waste of time? Just a thought. I just love collecting all those generic replies they send.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Maybe Amazon's game plan is to encourage memberships rather than whispersync sales. If people see for $14.99 (double) they can get a $20-40 audio every month for less than half price, they might just sign up.

I think that's a confusing sentence, but hopefully you know what I mean.

Or maybe this is the beginning of a subscription model?


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

SusanMayWriter said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I would still do Audibles for my books because as long they earn more per month than what I would get having the money in the bank, it's still a good investment. At least they are done and I don't have to think about them again.
> 
> It's just a shame that now we are losing on the bonus sales and that income is down. I'm sure they see it in their figures, so they obviously have another game plan in mind. It really was an odd move by them and I can't figure out why they did it other than maybe the Amazon whispersync sales were cannibalizing Audible sales.
> 
> I paid for my audibles outright but when I mentioned it to my narrator recently, when discussing the next audible, he said he'd heard about this from other narrators that their author's whispersync sales were down too. Kind of feel like this is another hit along with everything else. Do you think it's worth writing to Amazon about the change in price and the impact on sales or is it a waste of time? Just a thought. I just love collecting all those generic replies they send.


In light of this recent change, would you still recommend paying up front? Or does it make more sense now to do the royalty split? (trying to decide for myself)


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Silly Writer said:


> In light of this recent change, would you still recommend paying up front? Or does it make more sense now to do the royalty split? (trying to decide for myself)


Given the new prices, the risk to everyone involved in production (author, narrator, producer, whatever) has increased.

That means if you are not certain you can make your money back within a reasonable period, shifting some of the risk to the voice actor/producer makes sense--if they will do it. Of course, they are in the same boat--their risk has increased too, so you will probably find it harder to find those willing.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Silly Writer said:


> In light of this recent change, would you still recommend paying up front? Or does it make more sense now to do the royalty split? (trying to decide for myself)


I would say this might have shifted the decision line on whether to go into audio at all, but it doesn't change the royalty share vs. pay-up-front decision. If you think you can make enough from audio to make it worth doing, then you want to pay up front because you own the product instead of having a seven year license on it and you get twice the royalties per sale. Plus, you have the option of being non-exclusive which isn't possible if you do royalty share. The only reason I see to do royalty share is if you think you won't do well enough to pay for the costs eventually, which then brings me back to why do it at all. It still takes time and effort to hire the narrator and proof their work. (I realize there is the "I have no cash" argument for royalty share, but then wait a few months if you have the ebook sales that show the title has legs and go into audio then when you've accumulated enough cash.)


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Puddleduck said:


> This is exactly why you should ask yourself, in addition to, "What makes the most business sense for me?": "What would be the most ethical way to deal with a fellow artist in this scenario?" Sure, they can decide for themselves if they want to take the risk/longer payout of a royalty split option, but from what I've gleaned, it sounds like most would always prefer a single payment upfront. Asking the narrator to do a royalty split is a bit like asking the doctor who delivers your baby to help you raise it. Generally speaking, they don't want to be in this with you for the long haul. They want to get paid and move on to the next project.
> 
> Look at it this way: you may think that this thing Amazon's done has made things a little suckier for you. You don't _have _to pass that suckiness on to your business partners.


I don't see there's an ethical problem if everyone understands what's going on and nobody's making promises they can't keep, or misrepresenting anything.

Sometimes both sides are cash-poor but they are time-rich, and this is an opportunity. For example, the guy that did some of my books would probably have done a royalty split because he did everything himself--the voice acting, recording and production--in his tiny home booth. All it cost him was time, and he wasn't flooded with work. It's up to the actor/producer to decide whether the time is worth the prospective payout and/or gamble.

So, this might be a good deal for a new voice actor making his or her bones, where it won't be such a good deal for an established narrator--just like a new indie author is more likely to discount their work in order to gain fans, whereas an established author will likely sell at a premium.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

You will find that audible sales are linked roughly to your ebook sales. That's what I've found. So if you're selling your ebooks by X amount per day, you will get a lesser amount of sales in Audible. Since the change in price, like I've said, my audible sales have nose-dived but the this has been quiet months for me as well. If you are not selling hardly an ebooks, then you probably won't sell many audibles. Just my take.

If you want top audible narrators they won't do share with you. I pay $350 an hour for my guys and they've won awards. 

When investing in anything like this, just decide if it's something for the future for you. If your books are selling reasonably well, then it might be worth the investment. Like I've said here before, I make back more than the interest I would earn if the money was in the bank, so it's just an investment decision. Plus once it's done, then you don't have to think about it again.

However, on my next book I am investigating not going with ACX because I don't like how you can't promote your audible book and if we keep giving Amazon all the business nobody will rise up to take them on and make the deal fairer. Currently what ACX offers is not a fair deal for us. But I'm probably going to be willing to take a cut in royalty from 40% to 20% so I can experiment with having my next audible on more platforms.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Would it make any difference if they had dropped those audio books from Overdrive?


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Oh, nm I see it. About 6 weeks ago Amazon released the audio upgrades with _amazon audible matchmaker_. They raised the prices accordingly.

If you google it there is a link that will take you in to upgrade all your audible books. (for the customer, not sure about authors. I think its automatic)

Edit: to add a Consumer link


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Pandorra said:


> Would it make any difference if they had dropped those audio books from Overdrive?


I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you are exclusive with ACX distribution, you won't be on Overdrive. I think you are just on Apple, Audible and Amazon worldwide. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

They've always had the match up service for your e-books, although I haven't seen that tool before or maybe I have. I remember checking ages ago to match books with audible.

However after checking my purchases with the tools now and seeing some indie books still have their audible at $1.99, I'm going to write to ACX and ask that mine be matched to $1.99 again or at least explain why some are at $1.99 and most are at $7.49. I think $2.49 or $2.99 seems a reasonable add on and would most likely increase conversion.

They'll probably give me the run around but worth asking anyway. Shall report back with the reply.

Has anyone else asked the question?


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## BillyDeCarlo (Apr 11, 2017)

I"m confused about how audio pricing even works in ACX, or how you get paid. I don't see any way to set the pricing like there is for ebooks. Is it because Audible is a subscription? Can someone explain?


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Maybe Amazon's game plan is to encourage memberships rather than whispersync sales. If people see for $14.99 (double) they can get a $20-40 audio every month for less than half price, they might just sign up.
> 
> I think that's a confusing sentence, but hopefully you know what I mean.
> 
> Or maybe this is the beginning of a subscription model?


That's a great point. This could be to do with the long-rumored romance audiobook subscription thing that there is a lot of chatter about and I think will launch soonish. If they are pushing a cheaper subscription option as a KU style all-you-can-eat then they probably want to remove the competition of cheap Whispersynced books.

Guess it also acts as a vice for those not joining the sub program, which is the general MO post-KU 1 I suppose.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

SusanMayWriter said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you are exclusive with ACX distribution, you won't be on Overdrive. I think you are just on Apple, Audible and Amazon worldwide. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> They've always had the match up service for your e-books, although I haven't seen that tool before or maybe I have. I remember checking ages ago to match books with audible.
> 
> ...


Just that somebody else speculated they only raised the prices for exclusive audio books, not those shared with overdrive. But I don't know how accurate that is.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

Just going by looking at a handful of audiobooks, it seemed most (not all) ACX books had been kicked up to the higher Whispersync bracks and some (not all) Audible books had retained a lower price, or were in the medium bracket not.

Anyone notice any similar kind of pattern or is that just random?


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

BillyDeCarlo said:


> I"m confused about how audio pricing even works in ACX, or how you get paid. I don't see any way to set the pricing like there is for ebooks. Is it because Audible is a subscription? Can someone explain?


Audible sets the cover price. If someone downloads it as a part of their one-a-month download with the subscription, the 'price' for the audiobook is the monthly subscription price, or $14.95. You get your % of whatever the customer paid (40% or 25% depending on your arrangement.)


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Pandorra said:


> Just that somebody else speculated they only raised the prices for exclusive audio books, not those shared with overdrive. But I don't know how accurate that is.


My romance novel is not exclusive and the price was raised to $7.99 for Whispersync when I checked it a few days ago. It didn't go up in price at the same time as the others on this thread, but did eventually go up.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

It was my impression that the price hike only affected the higher priced audiobooks. If an audio is priced lower than $7.49, they kept the Whispersync price at $1.99.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

dgaughran said:


> Just going by looking at a handful of audiobooks, it seemed most (not all) ACX books had been kicked up to the higher Whispersync bracks and some (not all) Audible books had retained a lower price, or were in the medium bracket not.
> 
> Anyone notice any similar kind of pattern or is that just random?


David, my quick look the other day showed all the Zon imprints stayed at $1.99 and most of the indies went up to $7.49. But then I saw an indie book from a very successful sci-fi author I know who had some of his books still at $1.99 but the others were up. So I might check in and ask him about that.

Then I just checked Hugh Howey's Wool and all his are up at $7.49, for what it's worth. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason for it. But I don't think it has to do with length of book/audio or pricing of audible. Maybe a few of us should write and ask the question about it. Also wouldn't hurt to point whatever they were trying to achieve in profit, isn't working on our end, at least.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Just checked my shorter non-fiction. Two titles that sell for $5.95 full-price have a Whispersync price of $1.99. One is exclusive, one is not. Both of my full-length titles are now at $7.49.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Cassie Leigh said:


> Just checked my shorter non-fiction. Two titles that sell for $5.95 full-price have a Whispersync price of $1.99. One is exclusive, one is not. Both of my full-length titles are now at $7.49.


I guess that might make sense for cheaper, shorter titles. However, the author's audios that I quoted are full books and their Audibles are around the $21.95 mark, same as mine. But their audibles are $1.99 add on, although a couple are $7.49. Have to do some more checking in next few days.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

My audio revenues have TANKED since they moved to $7.49. 

90% drop in revenue.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

sela said:


> My audio revenues have TANKED since they moved to $7.49.
> 
> 90% drop in revenue.


Yeah. Welcome to the new audio reality.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

sela said:


> My audio revenues have TANKED since they moved to $7.49.
> 
> 90% drop in revenue.


Usually when I run a free ebook, I get at least several audio sales. My last ad netted exactly 0 audio sales. I'm not even going to bother checking my ACX dashboard.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Speaking as someone who took a bonanza from one Audible-daily-deal and buried the money in getting my entire catalog up on Audible, I'm hoping what we're looking at is a calm-before-the-storm. I get the sense that something large is coming, like an Audible channel on the Echo, fueled by a subscription plan.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2017)

Audible is ramping up their game in a serious way. I know of at least four authors who have received 6 figure advances, the most recent 1/4 million dollars. If you have a way, you should really consider pitching them. They have money and are looking to spend it.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Yeah. Welcome to the new audio reality.


Like, WTFIUWT

I mean, aren't they losing money, too? If I lost 90% surely they lost a whack load more since I only got 40%...

I never was good at math but still. It does not compute.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

sela said:


> Like, WTFIUWT
> 
> I mean, aren't they losing money, too? If I lost 90% surely they lost a whack load more since I only got 40%...
> 
> I never was good at math but still. It does not compute.


I'm sure Audible makes a lot of money with the memberships.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

sela said:


> Like, WTFIUWT
> 
> I mean, aren't they losing money, too? If I lost 90% surely they lost a whack load more since I only got 40%...
> 
> I never was good at math but still. It does not compute.


Ha ha, took me awhile to work out WTFIUWT Sela. lol

Okay, I've done a check through the store. Quite time consuming actually. I couldn't find *one single* Amazon Imprint book that wasn't offering whisper-sync for $1.99. However I did find all of A.J. Riddle's books, including his new one Pandemic, were all still $1.99. Nothing against the guy but he's such a big seller I wonder if this factors into putting up the price. Although I did check other best-selling indies that I could think of quickly and they were all $7.49.

Also most seem to have Audible as the publisher. So that can't be a factor. Size of book doesn't seem to factor either.

I honestly don't get it. There seems to be little reasoning behind this.

However, I do find the fact that this price hike wasn't universal and did not affect Amazon Imprints puzzling. Although, of course, they own the store, they own the imprints and Audibles, so they are going to get all the advantages. I guess. In a perfect world you would hope this would be a little fairer but that is business, I guess, when you deal with Amazon, who owns all these different companies and controls so much.

I've written to them and I'm sure they'll say go away in their probably vague reply. Just feel a little kicked to the curb when you've spent thousands on Audibles and the rules get changed without warning or reason. I will still make audibles of my books and spend thousands ensuring I use my top narrators because I still make more than the interest I would earn from the bank but at this rate it will be years to recover my costs.

Perhaps a few others here can write to ACX, like I have just now, and ask why and if they can reduce your audibles back. Here's their email: [email protected]


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

sela said:


> Like, WTFIUWT
> 
> I mean, aren't they losing money, too? If I lost 90% surely they lost a whack load more since I only got 40%...
> 
> I never was good at math but still. It does not compute.


Oh, it computes to Audible I'm sure. I didn't say no one is making money, only the someones aren't us.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

It might be old news to some, but if you're a year into an ACX contract you can ask to be removed from their exclusivity (I've just requested two of mine be removed from ACX exclusivity so I can try Findaway). However, this does not apply to royalty share.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

D-C said:


> It might be old news to some, but if you're a year into an ACX contract you can ask to be removed from their exclusivity (I've just requested two of mine be removed from ACX exclusivity so I can try Findaway). However, this does not apply to royalty share.


I'm not going to do that. The main reason is that most of my titles are on the old 50% escalator royalty scheme. I'm on my way to 60% on some of them.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

D-C said:


> It might be old news to some, but if you're a year into an ACX contract you can ask to be removed from their exclusivity (I've just requested two of mine be removed from ACX exclusivity so I can try Findaway). However, this does not apply to royalty share.


Is that an official thing? Or is it something they might do if you ask them nicely and the wind's blowing in the right direction?


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

D-C said:


> It might be old news to some, but if you're a year into an ACX contract you can ask to be removed from their exclusivity (I've just requested two of mine be removed from ACX exclusivity so I can try Findaway). However, this does not apply to royalty share.


That's interesting. I've just read through all the agreements at ACX and I can't see anything about allowing you to do that. I'm curious though if by not being exclusive are we allowed to then price the whisper synch audibles on Amazon ourselves? Does anyone know?

The more I think about everything, the AMS marketing, Audibles and ACX, Kindle Unlimited, the imprints getting preferential treatment with Daily Deals, AMS ads and Audible pricing, the more it seems like everyone has been saying, we have helped them own everything and now we are paying.

Even though they are different divisions, the Amazon companies are obviously benefiting from the mother company, the website store, to our detriment. In a way, I kind of feel like I'm a serf tending the poor fields for whatever I'm thrown by the lord. Once I get my field really happening through my own hard work and ingenuity, they come along and tax me higher or just take my field and put in one of their people.

I know its business but there doesn't seem to be any concealment that they benefit their own companies first. Nothing against those with the imprints (I know some do well and some do not.) Just in discussing this and musing, it's opened my previously closed eyes.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> Is that an official thing? Or is it something they might do if you ask them nicely and the wind's blowing in the right direction?


It's in the ACX Book Posting Agreement. Clause 13. (I just sent notice on four of my titles.) It's supposed to take up to 60 days according to the contract, but it looks like it can be done. I'll know in 60 days.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

SusanMayWriter said:


> I'm curious though if by not being exclusive are we allowed to then price the whisper synch audibles on Amazon ourselves? Does anyone know?


I don't believe so. I've never had any control over pricing on any of my titles, even the ones that have always been non-exclusive.


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## Allyson J. (Nov 26, 2014)

I'm stressed about this audio price increase. My audible income has dropped 90% even on bookbub months (single digits sales down from paying a bill every month with audio royalties, despite my prices increasing from $1.99 to $7.99!!). I'm due to start production of my next series, but now I'm not sure. Instead of a year to make my money back, it will take about five years per book. Who knows what the state of audiobooks will be in that time.

I understand it's the nature of the business, but it's hard to make decisions about the future of _our_ businesses when so many factors are out of our control.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Allyson J. said:


> <snip> but now I'm not sure. Instead of a year to make my money back, it will take about five years per book. Who knows what the state of audiobooks will be in that time.
> 
> I understand it's the nature of the business, but it's hard to make decisions about the future of _our_ businesses when so many factors are out of our control.


Is that a year/five years with up front production, or split royalty?


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## Allyson J. (Nov 26, 2014)

Silly Writer said:


> Is that a year/five years with up front production, or split royalty?


up front.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

So I received a prompt reply to my email and little joy as I expected. I love it when they reply "Greetings Susan." Makes me feel like an alien is invading my home planet and beginning with "Greetings Earthling," just before they take over my world.

Here's what I wrote:



> _Hi,
> 
> I have 3 titles with you. Back Again, Deadly Messengers and The Troubles Keeper.
> 
> ...





> Greetings Susan,
> 
> Thank you for contacting ACX.
> 
> ...


I note they haven't addressed my concern on how unfair other books being priced below mine was. In fact, they kind of gloat over it. But there you go, if you would like to share your thoughts and concerns, they've asked you to do so. On a less negative note, I have always found Audible very responsive to emails and offering assistance. They also seem to have English names, so I'm thinking they are a more executive service team than KDP. So maybe it wouldn't hurt if they received a bunch of emails making similar complaints like mine ... low sales, disadvantaged because imprints only sell for $1.99, and perhaps you are reconsidering making more audibles.

I'm going to write back and tell them I probably won't be making any more audibles because they've made the market place too uncertain and the returns are too low unless you are with an Amazon imprint.

I'm also interested now in the benefit of being 'wide' with Audibles. Maybe a bunch of us asking for rights back might prompt something with them. Probably not, but worth looking at the benefit or downside of not being exclusive to Audibles. I see lots ads for Kobo subscription here in Australia.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Cassie Leigh said:


> It's in the ACX Book Posting Agreement. Clause 13. (I just sent notice on four of my titles.) It's supposed to take up to 60 days according to the contract, but it looks like it can be done. I'll know in 60 days.


Thanks for sharing this too. I had no idea. Here's the extract from Clause 13. http://www.acx.com/help/book-posting-agreement/201481880



> Designation of Exclusive or Non-Exclusive Distribution Rights to Audible and Change of Designation
> If you elect to pay the Producer who produces an Audiobook a one-time production fee, you have the option of granting Audible exclusive or non-exclusive distribution rights to the Audiobook, and if you grant Audible exclusive distribution rights, you can change your grant to non-exclusive at any time after the one year anniversary of the date that Audible first makes the Audiobook available for sale by emailing [email protected] with a request for the change. If you make this request after this initial one-year period, Audible will change its distribution right to the Audiobook to non-exclusive effective within 60 days from the date of its receipt of your request. Audible will notify you in writing when the change is made and the date of Audible's written notification will be the effective date of the change. Until the effective date of the change, the applicable Audiobook remains exclusive to Audible and you cannot distribute the Audiobook to other retail outlets or through other distribution channels. From and after the effective date of the change, you will be entitled to royalties on sales of the Audiobook by Audible in accordance with Audible's standard ACX Royalty Payment Terms and Procedures for Pay-for-Production Deals (Audible Non-Exclusive Distribution Rights) in effect as of the date Audible receives your notice requesting the change. Click the following link to see the current version of the ACX Royalty Payment Terms and Procedures for Pay-for-Production Deals (Audible Non-Exclusive Distribution Rights)
> If you elect to pay the Producer who produces an Audiobook using the ACX royalty share option, you must grant Audible exclusive distribution rights to the Audiobook and you cannot change your grant to non-exclusive.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Puddleduck said:


> I doubt unhappy authors will make them do much, unfortunately. Maybe, though, if they see that people aren't buying those higher priced whispersync books and no significant increase in their 1.99 sync books, they may realize that customers aren't too thrilled with the development either and change it back.
> 
> I used to buy a lot of whispersync books. Now, not as many. It hasn't cause me to spend those $2 on the books they want me to buy instead, just to not buy as many books. If my experience is common, that may be the sort of thing that'll get them to change. I hope so. I liked getting those 1.99 audiobooks. It's especially nice as a cheap way to discover new authors who I wouldn't necessarily want to spend a full credit on.


I agree. I don't think they'll do anything either. It's a very odd decision to put the price up by so much. I imagine it has something to do, like someone mentioned with an impact on Audible membership or something they plan to do with Audible. I could probably be okay with that, except that it isn't universal. If their imprints were also up at $7.49 and all other indies, I would think, "okay, that's how it goes." But when it's random for no reason, seems odd and, dare I say the "U" word, unfair.

I might just write and ask why some books are $1.99 and how they decide that.


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Lydniz said:


> Is that an official thing? Or is it something they might do if you ask them nicely and the wind's blowing in the right direction?


Email ACX support and ask. Another author told me it was possible so I went ahead and confirmed with support that yes my two titles (published just over a year ago) could be removed. I've asked them to proceed and had a reply to say it will take up to 28 days to "change the exclusivity". I'm about a week into that time frame. Beyond that, I don't know any more than you, but once I'm out I intend to try Findaway. At least I have control over pricing with them.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Susan, $2.49 seems like a reasonable price for whispersync. As a customer, the _ACX experience_ has turned into a negative one. I absolutely will not pay $7.49.

I was just checking the Outlander series read by Davina Porter. Book 5 is regularly $48.99, member price is $34.29 and whispersync is $7.49. For a 55+hour book, $7.49 is definitely reasonable.

Then look at one of my books. It's a boxed set, regular price $24.95, not even a member discount, 11 hours 34 minutes, and whispersync is $7.49.

Tell me, Audible, how does that balance the customer experience.


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## CallMeRed (May 12, 2016)

I had emailed ACX about this several weeks ago and they told me that the pricing thing was not up to them. Then I emailed Audible with no reply. I would love to email again, but not sure who to email. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

SusanMayWriter said:


> That's interesting. I've just read through all the agreements at ACX and I can't see anything about allowing you to do that. I'm curious though if by not being exclusive are we allowed to then price the whisper synch audibles on Amazon ourselves? Does anyone know?


I couldn't find it either but emailing and asking for the exclusivity to be changed to non-exclusive did the trick.

Edited to add: I see you found the clause!


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Susan, $2.49 seems like a reasonable price for whispersync. As a customer, the _ACX experience_ has turned into a negative one. I absolutely will not pay $7.49.
> 
> I was just checking the Outlander series read by Davina Porter. Book 5 is regularly $48.99, member price is $34.29 and whispersync is $7.49. For a 55+hour book, $7.49 is definitely reasonable.
> 
> ...


It just doesn't balance it fairly at all. You are either getting a great deal or a terrible deal.

Then you look at say an imprint that's on one of their regular monthly or daily deals & their book is 99c & the Audible is $1.99. Like currently Wayward Pines by Blake Crouch is 99c & add the Audible for $1.99. There's enough imprints with $1.99 add ons that you wouldn't bother with ours.

I've written back & asked how they decide on the pricing & what do I have to do to get the $1.99 back. For the person who wanted to write the email is [email protected]

I do remember writing with my first Audible & asking about the low $1.99 price. I was outraged at how cheap it was. How ironic now! They did tell me then that they had no control over Amazon's pricing. Obviously that's changed.


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

I haven't taken the plunge into audiobooks yet. The lack of control over pricing has always bothered me. However, I wanted to chime in that as a customer, I almost always bought the audio for $1.99 if it was offered. It was a total impulse buy. I don't even really listen to audiobooks but I always figured it was worth two bucks to have the option. $7.49 completely takes away the impulse buyers like myself, especially when the vast majority of fiction books I buy are less than that. I don't know why they would make this change.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

SusanMayWriter said:


> That's interesting. I've just read through all the agreements at ACX and I can't see anything about allowing you to do that. I'm curious though if by not being exclusive are we allowed to then price the whisper synch audibles on Amazon ourselves? Does anyone know?
> 
> The more I think about everything, the AMS marketing, Audibles and ACX, Kindle Unlimited, the imprints getting preferential treatment with Daily Deals, AMS ads and Audible pricing, the more it seems like everyone has been saying, we have helped them own everything and now we are paying.
> 
> ...


Yep.

Amazon came in and disrupted the trad publishing world and for a while, it was a bonanza for indie authors, who benefitted from Amazon's algorithms and sold like hotcakes.

Now, we're in a maturing market. Amazon's goal has always been to be a search engine for an everything store -- the Walmart of the online world -- selling everything to everyone. Books were the loss leader. Amazon has become a publisher, and now, privileges its own imprints, of course. It's now got us to pay to play via the AMS. It's using indie authors as loss leaders to get customers into the store.

Yes, it privileges its own imprints. It would be foolish not to. It's not about fairness. Business isn't meant to be fair or just. As long as Amazon fulfils its own TOS, they can pretty much do anything they want as long as it's legal.

It's good for us to know what we're dealing with, however, so we business people (and we indies are business people even if this is just a hobby since we are suppliers) can make informed decisions.


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## NoLongerPosting (Apr 5, 2014)

Removed due to site owner's change to TOS.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I was just looking to spend this months credit and saw that the whispersync price on the audio I want is $3.47. It's a 27 hour book with a regular price of $45.49 and a member price of $29.95. 

At $3.47 for whispersync, it might be cheaper for me to buy the ebook and whispersync it. Just checked the ebook price and it's available on KU but not available to buy.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Puddleduck said:


> Just a quick note, Susan. You keep using "Audible" or "audible" when you mean "audiobook". Audible is the company/website that distributes audiobooks. Audiobooks are the books themselves.
> 
> I'm not pointing this out to be pedantic. As writers, we know that words have power, and I don't think any of us really want to get to a point where "audible" becomes literally synonymous with "audiobook", because at that point, Audible will have a true monopoly over (digital) audiobook distribution, and authors/publishers will truly be screwed.


Ha ha, it's like Xerox in the old days becoming the word for photocopying. It's just what springs from my fingertips. lol. And I think we are truly screwed when it comes to Audibles now with this new move by Audible regardless of what you call the audio books. Mind you, who calls copying Xeroxing anymore? So maybe there is hope. Somebody please challenge these guys.



> It's good for us to know what we're dealing with, however, so we business people (and we indies are business people even if this is just a hobby since we are suppliers) can make informed decisions.


Yes, over the past few months I now totally understand what we are dealing with. I might be slow but this wasn't as obvious six months ago. Now, it hits you right between the eyes. So, of course, I will plan my business accordingly for 2018 and onward.


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## Loosecannon (May 9, 2013)

FYI - Per the question above, "Can I control the pricing of Whisper-Sync if my audiobook is non-exclusive?". 
One of my audiobooks has been 'non-exclusive' since release and nope, I cannot control the price, Whisper-sync or otherwise. Also remember non-exclusive is a lower royalty rate too, but there is the chance an Audible competitior might just get some traction at some point to make going wide worthwhile...hoping sooner than later as my sales have been sinking downward too in the last 6 months pretty much across the board.


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## SusanMayWriter (Jan 7, 2014)

Loosecannon said:


> FYI - Per the question above, "Can I control the pricing of Whisper-Sync if my audiobook is non-exclusive?".
> One of my audiobooks has been 'non-exclusive' since release and nope, I cannot control the price, Whisper-sync or otherwise. Also remember non-exclusive is a lower royalty rate too, but there is the chance an Audible competitior might just get some traction at some point to make going wide worthwhile...hoping sooner than later as my sales have been sinking downward too in the last 6 months pretty much across the board.


This is quite the protected market, isn't it, when you can't set a price? The only reason then to go wide is to support another player. I'm going to have to investigate whether I think you can make up that 15% on what I've heard is only 5% of the market to Audibles/Amazon's 95%. However, if you stay exclusive then the others are never going to get a foothold. Mind you, my sales are terrible anyway, so what will I lose?

Are you finding sales on the other outlets going downward as well? Maybe the market is declining. Can't imagine but I don't hear much about it these days.

My other question is if you go non-exclusive can you go back if it doesn't work, like Select?


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

SusanMayWriter said:


> This is quite the protected market, isn't it, when you can't set a price? The only reason then to go wide is to support another player. I'm going to have to investigate whether I think you can make up that 15% on what I've heard is only 5% of the market to Audibles/Amazon's 95%. However, if you stay exclusive then the others are never going to get a foothold. Mind you, my sales are terrible anyway, so what will I lose?
> 
> Are you finding sales on the other outlets going downward as well? Maybe the market is declining. Can't imagine but I don't hear much about it these days.
> 
> My other question is if you go non-exclusive can you go back if it doesn't work, like Select?


On the general subject of other markets, Kobo did just launch an audio section. They aren't open to indies right now, but I like Kobo, and hope to see good things from them in that regard. I did email Audible to ask if they were going to expand their distribution to include Kobo. I knew the answer was going to be no (it was) but I thought it was worth at least asking.

I was happy to see, upthread, that there is a way to get out of the 7 year contract after a year. A future-state where Kobo mounts a real challenge--maybe linking ebooks and audiobooks like amazon does--might mean a future where I want to put my audio books over there, even with the reduction in % from audible.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

GeneDoucette said:


> On the general subject of other markets, Kobo did just launch an audio section. They aren't open to indies right now


Not directly, no, but you can get on Kobo's audio listings through a distributor. I use Authors Republic and I'm on there.

(And not related to your post, but my understanding with wide is you can set your prices but there's no guarantee any of the platforms will use them and all of the ACX-supported platforms won't.)


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## MmmmmPie (Jun 23, 2015)

All of mine used to be WhisyperSynched at 1.99. It really bit into my profits, and around a year ago, I actually requested to ACX that they increase the WS price to $3.49. They declined my request. Now, only six of my eight books have the WhisperSync deal, now at $7.49. First, they were priced too low. Now, they're priced too high. 

Through all of this, I think my revenue has remained somewhat stable. I'm selling fewer copies, but making more off each copy. I still wish they'd lower it though. Even $4.99 would be a lot easier to sell.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I do know I haven't bought a single audio book since they all seemed to have gone up via whisper sync. I am a more casual audio user. I have no use for a expensive subscription, or credit plan. I am still struggling to make audio work for me. Since there are times I can only do audio and still want to read, I am trying to make it work. I do this by switching back and forth from the book to the audio. So that when I do chores, I let alexa read it to me, or carry my phone. And then go back to reading. The $1.99 made that possible as almost an impulse buy for some books. I am not doing to do it for $7.49. But I am probably not the market they are going for. Heavy audio listeners get much more out of the credit system and many mostly listen to audios. It kind of makes it harder though for us casual listeners. 

Oh well. *shrugs


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