# Mentors for newbs? Modified opening post.



## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Before you respond to this I am modifying to add this Mentor idea has already been discussed in this thread and another on Feb. 9th, and as many have pointed out, if you need/want answers, first search the board (shiny new search functions coming tomorrow). If you don't find your answer, post a question. There are many that know the answer and will help. And finally, if not comfortable in public posting... Find a voice (KBoarder) and reach out via pm. I've done it numerous times and have always received helpful and friendly responses to my questions (from many on this same thread). Bottom line, as has been pointed out...KBoards as a whole is already a mentor. 

Original post:

I see all these newbs (myself included) scattered, smothered and covered... Trying to figure which way to go, and I wonder why indie publishing isn't like other careers. I spent 2 decades in human resources, and one of the first things I did with new employees is give them three names they could call on as a mentor. The mentors of course had to agree, and a match would be made. I know I'm not in competition with anyone here. I want all of us to succeed. Ive oubbed my 2nd book, i don't know a lot, but I think i could offer some help to one brand new shiny newb. I sure could have used a mentor in this gig, if nothing else, just to have a personal contact with someone else who knows how hard all this can be--someone to talk to off the board, or someone to just bounce things off of.

I've struggled through many things since this time last year that someone already out here would've been able to give me a hand in (and sometimes I've asked and received public help), things that are embarrassingly simple to the seasoned writers, but we newbs might need a nudge on. 

Has there ever been a Mentor thread where a newb could post they need a mentor and a seasoned person could pm them and help them along. It can go both ways, i.e. if the newb does well, they can reach back to their mentor to cross-promote, critique, proof/beta read later. 

Some things a mentor could help with:
*Guidance with mailing list, web page and/or technical things (lots of people on here are tech savvy)
*Back and forth blurb... Newb does 1st draft...send it to mentor...back and forth
*Marketing game plan/advice
*plot issues, i.e. is it plausible, does it make sense, does it sound interesting, suggestions, etc.
*Help with Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook plug-ins, etc. (like putting a store or a GR button on a page... )
*First bad review (mentor talk them away from the comment button). Someone to say, yeah it sucks. Deal!

I know a lot of this can be found on the boards. Sometimes though, one-on-one is better. And if we/they are willing to pay it forward (as many already do), karma can bring it back around. 

I was lucky enough to have one of you reach out to me (pm) and help me with a little advice in the very beginning--thank you for that--but I never wanted to 'bother' that busy writer or look stupid, so I muddled thru the rest on my own.

If we could get something like this going, it could be epic for KBoards in losing the stigma some 'think' we have of not helping (or even hurting) our own. It could also help indie publishing as a whole if every mentor highly encouraged their mentee to see the light regarding not up-to-snuff covers, editing, formatting, etc. We could lead the indies from here to raise the bar in a challenge to make our books undistinguishable from trad pubbed.

Thoughts?


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## Micah Ackerman (Feb 16, 2014)

I think this sounds like a tremendous idea and I for one could sure use a mentor or as they call it in AA a sponsor. Just someone who I could ask my stupid questions.

I maybe could help some itsy bitsy just starting writers, but at this point I'd be afraid of doing more harm than good. Of course every Newb will want one of the bigtimers to mentor them, but I just would love to chat with someone who's been through the wars before and who will tell it to me straight in a non-humiliating private setting.


Micah


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I call HM Ward and Hugh Howey. They's gonna listen to me cry about my one star reviews. Yes. It will happen.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Micah Ackerman said:


> I think this sounds like a tremendous idea and I for one could sure use a mentor or as they call it in AA a sponsor. Just someone who I could ask my stupid questions.
> 
> I maybe could help some itsy bitsy just starting writers, but at this point I'd be afraid of doing more harm than good. Of course every Newb will want one of the bigtimers to mentor them, *but I just would love to chat with someone who's been through the wars before and who will tell it to me straight in a non-humiliating private setting.*
> 
> Micah


Exactly!


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

There was some discussion about a KB mentoring program about a month ago in this thread: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,178119.msg2511119.html#msg2511119


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

I think it's a great idea, but the issue is finding people with the time and experience to mentor. A lot of people whose opinion I greatly respect are super busy, juggling writing, promo and life. And the thing is people like Russell, Holly & Elle, etc. put out really detailed posts about how they do things when they launch a book or to jump start your writing career, etc. I think the least you can do is at least read those publicly available posts and threads first before asking follow-up questions. If you have very specific questions, then it's much easier for them to help you.

For example, you can PM or email Russell and ask, "Hey, Russell, I saw your post on ABC and you said XYZ, but I'm in an LMN situation. What do you suggest / advise?" In that case, he can give you some specific answers that can help you specifically. (BTW - Russell's super nice, so I buy his books even though they're not necessarily in the genre I normally read to show my support. I try to do this with every author who has been willing to help and offer advice.)

If you ask a vague question like, "How do I set up a mailing list?" you're going to get answers like, "Sign up at mailchimp.com" or "there was something about that at the forum, so why don't you look there?"

If you need somebody who can beta or critique your books, you are better off getting a critique partner or two. If you need to vent or cry because you got a crappy review, you need a friend or two you can trust and talk with in private.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

crebel said:


> There was some discussion about a KB mentoring program about a month ago in this thread: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,178119.msg2511119.html#msg2511119


Just read this. Can't believe I didn't see it before (?) but I was in the throes of meeting a deadline then. Wonder why the thread went dead? Maybe a moderator will jump in and tell us if this is still in the works for the update.


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## GUTMAN (Dec 22, 2011)

It's a nice idea, and I don't want to bring up old wounds, but I feel this has to be said out loud.

We had many authors here who were truly successful and mentored-- in broad daylight. Meaning, they made posts, answered questions, posted sales figures. They were extremely generous with their time.

Many of them are gone now.  Search old threads and you'll see why.

So, I'm wondering what will be different this time around.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Nadia,
I think the newbs do read the threads, I know I do. But a mentor is more than that and less than that...and yes, they BECOME the tough-love friend you whine to when you get your first bad review, or you can't figure out for the life of you how to do something. It doesn't have to be a Russell, Elle, Hugh or other big name, there are hundreds of people here who have a lot to offer. If they want to offer it.  

I personally know there are already people on here who mentor. Sone of their mentees have gone on to be their peer and they now work as a team of two, three and sometimes four in helping each other as friends and peers. That has to start somewhere. Not just to help one newb at a time, but to push indies as a whole to raise the self-publishing bar.  

And thanks, Boyd!


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Mad H said:


> It's a nice idea, and I don't want to bring up old wounds, but I feel this has to be said out loud.
> 
> We had many authors here who were truly successful and mentored-- in broad daylight. Meaning, they made posts, answered questions, posted sales figures. They were extremely generous with their time.
> 
> ...


I hear ya, and that is exactly why I'm throwing this out there. Those valuable posts are fewer and farther between now, because they were public and some people didn't appreciate them and/or even resented them... Someone mentoring off the boards one-on-one is a different ball game.


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## yomatta (Jun 29, 2012)

A better solution may be to seek out fellow authors and start a private group to discuss strategies and learn together. The key for learning would be a small(ish) group.

Mentoring in the traditional business sense is about educating and training someone for elevation through the ranks--which benefits everyone. A self-pub writing career is a little different.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Yes, there are authors willing to mentor but there are a lot of variables involved which make it impractical for someone to manage matching people up unless they're going to take on the management of mentors and mentees as a project.

For example, I write erotica.  There are probably people that wouldn't be comfortable with my mentoring based on what I write.  I, personally, would not be willing to mentor "just anyone".  It would have to be someone who is first of all willing to take input and secondly, has something that I can work with.

My advice is to do what I did.  I messaged someone who was in an online writer's group with me and thanked them for their posts on the self-publishing topic, then later asked them some questions.  And, just like was mentioned, we do now have that lovely peer/peer mutual relationship and bounce things back and forth.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

AndreSanThomas said:


> Yes, there are authors willing to mentor but there are a lot of variables involved which make it impractical for someone to manage matching people up unless they're going to take on the management of mentors and mentees as a project.
> 
> For example, I write erotica. There are probably people that wouldn't be comfortable with my mentoring based on what I write. I, personally, would not be willing to mentor "just anyone". It would have to be someone who is first of all willing to take input and secondly, has something that I can work with.
> 
> My advice is to do what I did. I messaged someone who was in an online writer's group with me and thanked them for their posts on the self-publishing topic, then later asked them some questions. And, just like was mentioned, we do now have that lovely peer/peer mutual relationship and bounce things back and forth.


Based on the number of views vs. the response on this thread (in addition to the other dead-thread someone found), this may not be a workable thing. I'm sorry... really trying to help! But let's hope Betsy/Harvey still have it in mind for the update as the other thread did look encouraging.

Meanwhile, Andre's suggestion is a good one. If you're a newb, find someone whose 'voice' you like on the board, and pm them. The worst they can say is no...maybe they don't have the spare time. But it's worth a shot to try. Thanks, Andre!


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## LeeBee (Feb 19, 2014)

As a newbie who would stand to benefit from such an arrangement, I love this idea. But I also understand the amount of risk involved for the potential mentors. I hope someone can come up with a workable framework for a mentorship program, but I'm at a loss for suggestions as to how to set one up.



yomatta said:


> Mentoring in the traditional business sense is about educating and training someone for elevation through the ranks--which benefits everyone. A self-pub writing career is a little different.


It is different, but it seems logical that increasing the number of indie authors who truly understand the industry, the market, and the publishing process will benefit everyone by further increasing the level of professionalism among self-publishers.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

The thing is, in a very practical sense, this sub-forum (The Writer's Cafe) IS a mentoring group.

Although it has its weaknesses which will certainly affect some people more than others, it really is the BEST kind of mentoring.

The essential problem with mentoring is two-fold (and related): 

1.) No one person or small group of people can help you with everything.  It takes a village, as they say.  One person might be able to help with mailing lists, another with writing issues in your genre or style, another with finding your audience, another with choosing your own path.  Yet another provides inspiration or a shoulder to cry on.  No one person has all the skills and experience you may need to call on.

And...

2.) In every group with experienced people and newbies, the most patient and helpful of the experienced mentors will eventually become overwhelmed.  And I'm not even talking about the situations that someone hinted at above, where the mentor has some very negative experiences.  Even without that, there's the simple "Tragedy of the Commons" factor in that when someone makes a useful resource available, people tend to not only use it up, but push on to use it until it is destroyed.

Understand that if someone helps you on this group, in public, they are likely helping dozens if not hundreds of others.  If everyone starts moving questions into a private communication, that means the mentors will have to offer the same help dozens if not hundreds of times.

And like I said in #1, if your chosen mentor doesn't know the answer, or doesn't know the best answer for you, you've just wasted both his time and yours.

So use the group.  We're here.  Whoever is available at any moment will try to help.  Call it crowd-sourced mentoring.

Camille


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## Rae Scott Studio (Jan 26, 2014)

Oh how lovely would it be to have a mentor! I am jut getting tarted and the more I learn the more I realize I dont know ANYTHING... I get insecure in my writing for a few moments and I have NOBODY to tell me "yeah its normal get over it"  As a total newbie having a mentor could be a godsend! as long as they dont mind a TON of questions and stuff....


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## Vince Dickinson (Mar 5, 2013)

I don't know about mentoring, but it sounds like you might be looking for someone who can help you figure out marketing strategies, and also an editor to help you make your stories sharp. Look in the Kindle Boards Yellow Pages and see what services are available.

Also, write a lot.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I've done my best at times to mentor and offer insights and wisdom since some of the classic members have reduced their involvement, because I was around in their era and benefited from them back in 2010-2011. But for every person grateful for the help, it seems like there are 3-4 folks who would rather butt in and say there are no rules or just contradict or whatever, and a person can only take so much of that before deciding, let 'em learn for themselves. I'm good for advice on some things, but I'd almost rather keep the mentoring via PM, because I really don't appreciate or have time for all the noise by certain know-it-alls who don't actually know as much as they think. I have plenty of time for folks who want real advice, but none for people who only want to contradict and argue. (Not about anyone currently here, just negative experiences from about a year ago. Came close to ghosting on KB myself.) 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

I would like to offer myself up for adoption. I am cuddly, kind, and completely housebroken. Also a great cook of spicy food. Grammar could use some help, but are open to suggestions and criticism.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> I've done my best at times to mentor and offer insights and wisdom since some of the classic members have reduced their involvement, because I was around in their era and benefited from them back in 2010-2011. But for every person grateful for the help, it seems like there are 3-4 folks who would rather butt in and say there are no rules or just contradict or whatever, and a person can only take so much of that before deciding, let 'em learn for themselves. I'm good for advice on some things, but I'd almost rather keep the mentoring via PM, because I really don't appreciate or have time for all the noise by certain know-it-alls who don't actually know as much as they think. I have plenty of time for folks who want real advice, but none for people who only want to contradict and argue. (Not about anyone currently here, just negative experiences from about a year ago. Came close to ghosting on KB myself.)
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Your many contributions and comments have been noticed and very appreciated by me many times. I know exactly what you're saying here, but I also know for every one know-it-all that speaks out, there's dozens of people like me that sit up and pay attention!

You too, 1001 and Daring. 1001 saved me from pulling my entire first book by walking me away from the cliff when I freaked out about "passive" a while back.

I think, like me, people tend to forget to say thanks...but we're reading and appreciating.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Vince Dickinson said:


> I don't know about mentoring, but it sounds like you might be looking for someone who can help you figure out marketing strategies, and also an editor to help you make your stories sharp. Look in the Kindle Boards Yellow Pages and see what services are available.
> 
> Also, write a lot.


Vince, I'm not sure you meant to post here (?), I don't see a post asking for editors, although i am tired and maybe missed it... If not, let me clarify: editors and mentors are two different things. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ask their mentor to edit their book . (Although I'd LOVE to get on 1001's list as I hear she rocks, but I would never dream of asking her to do it for free.) I do editing on the side, and I don't do 'free' for anyone. I also pay a separate copy editing service to do my books.

Etc:sp


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> Vince, I'm not sure you meant to post here (?), I don't see a post asking fir editors, although i am tired and maybe missed it... If not, let me clarify: editors and mentors are two different things. I don't think anyone in their right mind would ask their mentor to edit their book . (Although I'd LOVE to get on 1001's list as I hear she rocks, but I would never dream of asking her to do it for free.) I do editing on the side, and I don't do 'free' for anyone. I also pay a separate copy editing service to do my books.


The bulletpoints about blurbs & plot issues sound more like something an editor or beta / CP thing than a mentor thing. I think that's what Vince means.


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## Vince Dickinson (Mar 5, 2013)

Precisely.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

L.L. Akers said:


> You too, 1001 and Daring. 1001 saved me from pulling my entire first book by walking me away from the cliff when I freaked out about "passive" a while back.


LOL. Any time! Do not fear teh grammarz! It's like wine tasting, I think. At least, as a wine taster explained it to me, once, when I said I couldn't do it. He said it's just practice and labels. You slow down, you pay attention, and you learn the labels that people put on things, that's all. And you use it as a tool to talk about the stuff to other people, and to take greater enjoyment in it.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

NadiaLee said:


> The bulletpoints about blurbs & plot issues sound more like something an editor or beta / CP thing than a mentor thing. I think that's what Vince means.


Oh. Sorry, Vince. I looked at everyone's post but my own, lol. To clarify, once you move past mentor/mentee, and into more of a peer to peer group of two-four, it is common to swap first drafts. There are MANY small groups of KBoarders who do this. They use Word Track Changes and give input on those things if they have it. More of an Alpha Reader than Beta (is that even a term?). But again, that's once you're up to par with your mentor and only if you form that type of relationship. It behoove s everyone in that group at that time. You'll see editorial quotes from one indie to another when they launch too. But that's a few steps beyond mentor and my apologies for putting the cart before the horse.


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> Nadia,
> I think the newbs do read the threads, I know I do. But a mentor is more than that and less than that...and yes, they BECOME the tough-love friend you whine to when you get your first bad review, or you can't figure out for the life of you how to do something. It doesn't have to be a Russell, Elle, Hugh or other big name, there are hundreds of people here who have a lot to offer. *If they want to offer it. *
> 
> I personally know there are already people on here who mentor. Sone of their mentees have gone on to be their peer and they now work as a team of two, three and sometimes four in helping each other as friends and peers. That has to start somewhere. Not just to help one newb at a time, but to push indies as a whole to raise the self-publishing bar.


But how do they know to offer it if you don't ask? Why is the onus on them to reach out rather than you reaching out to people by starting a thread with your questions?

I can't read people's mind and I'm sure most others here can't either.

I have helped people on other forums when they reached out to me first because they wanted me to explain XYZ. If I get more than 2-3 requests or questions of the same nature, I just start a thread and post my thoughts there so I can help as many people as I can.

Mentors aren't strictly there so you can cry about your bad reviews. I've never cried to my professional mentors about any crappy day/ bad evaluation when I was a consultant.

And as somebody said before, in a company, sometimes upper level people are ASKED to mentor so they can develop managerial and people skills. So mentoring benefits the person directly by demonstrating how they can inspire and lead people (thereby becoming eligible for promotion or whatever). It's not the case in indie publishing.

Finally -- there's a saying in Asia that the thirsty digs a well. If you want to be helped, then reach out first. Don't expect SMEs to reach out to you first.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

NadiaLee said:


> But how do they know to offer it if you don't ask? Why is the onus on them to reach out rather than you reaching out to people by starting a thread with your questions?
> 
> I can't read people's mind and I'm sure most others here can't either.
> 
> ...


If you'll look up-post, someone suggested newbs reach out via pm and I agreed that's a great suggestion in lieu of a list of available mentors.
Thanks.

Eta: here it is, it was Andre's suggestion and I agree: "Meanwhile, Andre's suggestion is a good one. If you're a newb, find someone whose 'voice' you like on the board, and pm them. The worst they can say is no...maybe they don't have the spare time. But it's worth a shot to try. Thanks, Andre!"


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

I used to offer short critiques over on the KDP forums as a way of "giving back". While some people were very thankful and gracious there were way too many who just took several hours of my work and ran without even a thank you and still others who even criticized my advice, so I stopped doing it. I have a blog for noobs but I know from the stats that few if any of those people ever buy my books, and it's hard to find the motivation to do something that has little to no benefit for me. I've often found that in such mentoring situations one gives and the other takes. I'm fortunate to be in a very supportive writers group, but pretty much anything you need to know can be found by a search either on these boards or on google.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> Oh. Sorry, Vince. I looked at everyone's post but my own, lol. To clarify, once you move past mentor/mentee, and into more of a peer to peer group of two-four, it is common to swap first drafts. There are MANY small groups of KBoarders who do this. They use Word Track Changes and give input on those things if they have it. More of an Alpha Reader than Beta (is that even a term?). But again, that's once you're up to par with your mentor and only if you form that type of relationship. It behoove s everyone in that group at that time. You'll see editorial quotes from one indie to another when they launch too. But that's a few steps beyond mentor and my apologies for putting the cart before the horse.


Note: there is NO reason not to raise this question. Don't apologize for asking. That's one of the things mentors do... they tell you where to look for answers.

As for Alpha readers -- the best way to find them can be to hang out with other writers. But remember, they don't come with a label. You can't tell who is going to be the right reader for you until you've tried them out. (And in my experience, a good alpha is a rare commodity.) And often you have to start by giving.

But unless you want to go to some critique exchange group, you often don't even get to that level until after you've formed relationships with people. Giving feedback is work, and receiving it? Well, people often have a very weird and illogical relationship with receiving feedback, so it can be stressful giving it until you know what the reaction is going to be.

So give it time, and maybe join a group here or there or take a workshop class. (Formal groups and workshops are not often useful in the critiques they give you, but they are very useful in gaining experience in dealing with how people handle critique.)

Camille

Camille


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks, Camille. That's very good advice, and you're right. Some people don't take critique well at all. I had a client BLOW UP at me last year. She had three books published, cozy mysteries set in Ireland, and she wanted a developmental edit on one to start with. The first thing I do before agreeing to take on already pubbed works for re-working is look at reviews to see what the readers are saying.  The reviews clearly told her (from Amazon U.S.), that there was too much Irish slang/dialect. She'd been pinged with the same thing repeatedly. So I asked her if she was willing to tone it down and change 'some' of the words to standard English. BOOM  

Needless to say, I refused the work. She obviously wasn't able to take 'critique.'


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

daringnovelist said:


> The thing is, in a very practical sense, this sub-forum *(The Writer's Cafe) IS a mentoring group*.
> 
> Although it has its weaknesses which will certainly affect some people more than others, it really is the BEST kind of mentoring.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was thinking!

When I first got here, I read the. whole. forum. Every last message. That way, I knew the context of the discussions and the advice people were giving. If that seems too daunting, then forum member David Gaughran has published as ebooks two wonderful summaries of all I have learned here: _Let's Get Digital_ and _Let's Get Visible_.

That said, I have made friends with a few of you and we do PM each other. It is wonderful! So yeah, do reach out to those whose voices you admire, but do so with the notion of befriending them, not of getting private answers to questions that other people might need answered, too.

I hear that the forum update on Tuesday, March 11 will provide a much better search function and a function that shows you links to threads on similar topics when you start new threads. That will probably help us all find the answers that have already been posted to our questions. I hope.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Mad H said:


> It's a nice idea, and I don't want to bring up old wounds, but I feel this has to be said out loud.
> 
> We had many authors here who were truly successful and mentored-- in broad daylight. Meaning, they made posts, answered questions, posted sales figures. They were extremely generous with their time.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with this. I've seen how people respond to the constructive help they've asked for (I lurked on the KDP forums for a couple of years, and it was eye-opening, to say the least), and it's often not pretty.

Who will volunteer to oversee the whole thing? Or will this be left to the individuals to handle? What would a mentor from here do, if they got a nasty response from their mentor-ee? What if they got 1-star bombed? Talked about on a blog or other forum? What if the mentor wasn't so great, and gave advice that didn't help, or deliberately tried to make the other person's book not sell? Would they be publicly outed, or receive bad reviews, etc.?

Like Camille, I see this forum as a mentoring source in itself. Just about anything you need to know, you'll find the answer here, or at least many links to the answer. I've bookmarked several threads for future reference that I know I will need.

A lot of things I see people wanting individual attention for are things that apply to everyone, are already widely available, either here on on the web in general, or have nothing to do with writing. Other things (blurbs, craft questions) could be helpful with a mentor, but could also be gotten from a critique group, or a writer's group, or by reading posts here.

That said, I don't see any reason why an individual couldn't ask if someone would mentor them, with the understanding that everyone is busy trying to figure this stuff out ourselves, not to mention working hard to get our own writing done, so they may be turned down.


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## lynnfromthesouth (Jun 21, 2012)

L.L. Akers said:


> Some things a mentor could help with:
> *Guidance with mailing list, web page and/or technical things (lots of people on here are tech savvy)
> *Back and forth blurb... Newb does 1st draft...send it to mentor...back and forth
> *Marketing game plan/advice
> ...


I think that with many of these things, you'd be better off figuring them out on your own. Searching KB, books, the web, and Youtube tutorials are out there for things like mailing lists, writing blurbs, setting up your website, and so forth. Plot and drafts really should be handled by an editor.

The truth is, being a self publisher is not easy, and jumping in to learn this stuff on your own first will serve you better than anything else. If anybody asked me what the most important trait for an indie is, I would say it's _adaptability_. If you can learn to adapt and figure out stuff, you will probably be way more successful. There will be times when you need to ask questions, but only after you've exhausted all your ideas on how to find the answer.

Where I see mentors being the most help is in encouragement. Keep writing, keep reading, you can do this. KB does seem to me to be a little big and chaotic for stuff like that, and I've been here a couple years now. I have been in a couple different smaller groups, but they haven't had much staying power. I think instead of a one-on-one, a group of four to ten might be better (sorta like the Camp Nanowrimo cabin concept), because it will be hard for most people to remain consistent in a one-to-one pairing. How something like that would look here if it was done at KB, I dunno.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

The problem with mentoring is that most successful authors have more of everything but time. I know that's my situation. I've always gotten email from writers, but when The Indie Voice's boxset hit NYT, we all started receiving hundreds of email a week. Clearly, no one has the time to address all those email and run their business, and all of us support our families with our writing. We wrote a non-fiction book to address most of the questions we got. We also formed a Facebook group to address questions. And most of us show up in other loops and forums (like this one) and address questions when we have time. The problem with mentoring is that someone has the expectation that you'll be there when they need you. Enormously busy and stressed people can't add another level of obligation to their already maxed out capacity. But we can all drop into forums/loops when we have five minutes in between writing sessions and see if we can answer a question. 

As for critique partners, my suggestion is that you find people at the same level as you or one higher in writing technique and partner up with them. All of the critique partners I have now started at the same time and with the same lack of knowledge that I had. We came up together. I think a lot of people assume that once you reach a certain point in your career, you're automatically rubbing elbows with ______ (successful author), but that's not the case. People tend to stay in the same groups they came up in the industry with. It's nothing nefarious. It's simply that's the people they know and trust. 

And I will be the first to agree with the other posters that I have gotten grief for attempting to help people on this forum. In fact, I took over a year off from it because some people were so nasty.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

L.L. Akers said:


> Just read this. Can't believe I didn't see it before (?) but I was in the throes of meeting a deadline then. Wonder why the thread went dead? Maybe a moderator will jump in and tell us if this is still in the works for the update.


It's unclear to me whether KB mentoring is wanted or writing mentoring....if it's writing mentoring, we don't really need to be involved and probably shouldn't--y'all can start a thread up (we can add it to the FAQ & Threads sticky). If it's KB mentoring, Harvey needs to weigh in, and he's kinda busy right now with the forum update and, oh, yeah, real life. 

Betsy


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)




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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> It's unclear to me whether KB mentoring is wanted or writing mentoring....if it's writing mentoring, we don't really need to be involved and probably shouldn't--y'all can start a thread up (we can add it to the FAQ & Threads sticky). If it's KB mentoring, Harvey needs to weigh in, and he's kinda busy right now with the forum update and, oh, yeah, real life.
> Betsy


In answer, yeah, discussing mentor, not writing. That was already clarified up thread. Here:



L.L. Akers said:


> Oh. Sorry, Vince. I looked at everyone's post but my own, lol. To clarify, once you move past mentor/mentee, and into more of a peer to peer group of two-four, it is common to swap first drafts. There are MANY small groups of KBoarders who do this. They use Word Track Changes and give input on those things if they have it. More of an Alpha Reader than Beta (is that even a term?). But again, that's once you're up to par with your mentor and only if you form that type of relationship. It behoove s everyone in that group at that time. You'll see editorial quotes from one indie to another when they launch too. But that's a few steps beyond mentor and my apologies for putting the cart before the horse.


And I think we came to the conclusion last night that this was beating a dead horse--was posted several times to instead if a newb wants a mentor, reach out and pm them, and ask. Harvey's name was brought up after someone found the other thread (a month ago) where you or Ann said it was in discussion with Harvey. Moot point by the end of this discussion last night.

Ann: thanks for your final comment on the other thread, "Discussion is good."

Etc: "or Ann"


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

LL,

that was in meant to be just an explanation, and a lighthearted one at that. I thought everyone would understand that real life gets in the way sometimes. As we all know, sometimes what we write on a forum turns out differently than intended, and mods are not exempt.

Betsy


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks, Betsy. I appreciate you explaining that. I guess it's me who's a touch sensitive since this thread has put me in the hot seat.

I was merely trying to find a way to help out the many brand new people who are afraid to ask a question or who might need a little more guidance without cluttering up the threads; yesterday a newbie asked "What is Bookbub?" Sure, he can search and find what results bookbub has had...old threads, new results...maybe not so much an explanation about what it is and when to use it (not conducive for one book usually) and he can google it for more info, but his question made me realize there are so many who really don't have a clue about a lot of basic stuff that a willing mentor could help with. Had I had known what I know now (or seen the other thread) I would have never brought it up. Lesson learned. 

I think I need to change the OP to reflect this mentor idea is a no-go.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I realize now, too, that there was a lot of discussion after your initial comment--that I didn't notice when I posted mine quoting yours.  I read threads starting at the first new post going forward, and sometimes I don't realize, when I've gotten to the end of the page, that there is a whole 'nother page of posts.  My bad, for sure.  Works great most of the time, every now and then it bites me in the .... um, foot.

Thanks for understanding, LL!  And we are working on ways to make information easier to find, and definitely welcome all discussion... Most of the changes in how we do things here have been member suggestions.

Betsy


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I've been self publishing for seven months or so. Before that, I completed a creative writing degree from a tier one university and studied self publishing for two years before I published my first book. Since I started, I've made a lot of mistakes. I had to learn from those mistakes. I've taken some good advice and less good advice, for me, and I've muscled through. I have about twenty titles published under different names and make about three or four hundred dollars a month. Frankly, I don't think that's a lot compared to many others. I know I haven't found my "thing" yet, and no one can help me with that but me. 

I've learned a great deal on my journey and constantly stress about decisions I have to make. My husband hears about it every day. I don't exactly think of myself as "seasoned." Even after seven months, there is still a great deal to learn. Could I mentor someone else? Maybe. Could I still use a mentor? Probably. But I don't think the people who could really help me have the time to work with me one on one to make the decisions I bother my husband about. Frankly, I'm glad I worked through the beginning growing pains on my own. I'm a different person than I was before I started seeing results. I'm actually less inclined to think I can DIY anything because I've seen what happens when I do. 

The experience I've gained through working though my own problems in this industry has been me mentoring myself. I've read tons of books on self publishing, obsessively read success posts on this forum, asked dumb questions, gotten angry, kept trying, tried something different, listened to podcasts, read popular books, studied trends. Most importantly, I kept writing.  

Believe it or not, there is a kind of "formula for success." It's called writing what people want to read and presenting it in a professional package. Everything else is just luck and marketing. There are posts by SM Reine, Elle Casey, and others about how to get off the ground. HM Ward has a lengthy post about book launches. I know it's panic attack inducing but this industry is a trial by fire. I don't think that ever ends. 

I've made the decision to start a new pen name and write full length books in a different romance genre. This may or may not work for me. I am the only one who can make that decision for myself. I've learned tips about how to launch books and get buzz so I have reviews out of the gate. I didn't get that from a one on one relationship, I got it from keeping my ear to the ground and paying attention. 

I understand the desire to have someone help you. Believe me, I do. If I had someone to go to every time I had some decision to make, I think I'd sleep better at night. But the fact is, those people are busy. They've offered their help and advice in the public forum. If I have a question to ask, I can post it to the board, embarrass myself, and take the advice that most suits what feels best.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. 

Seriously. Ask. That's the tiered benefit to forums. If someone doesn't know what Bookbub is, then a person whose only been here a month might know and then they get to help, even though they don't have a lot of experience. If people want historical sales data, then those at it longer can jump in and help. 

Knowledge is all relative. Everyone knows something that can help someone else.


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## LeeBee (Feb 19, 2014)

I am really sorry to hear that LL received a negative backlash for proposing (or re-proposing) something that, in many ways, would be a really good idea.

In response to the many commenters who have asserted that people new to publishing should lift themselves by their own bootstraps by reading threads on KB and various books on self-publishing, I would argue that this is less specifically helpful than it seems at first glance. I know that I have gotten a lot of my questions answered (and gotten an education about things I didn't even know to think of questions about) by doing just that.

HOWEVER... the problem is that in any given thread on this forum, there are likely to be no less than two (often three) dominant opinions offered in answer to the question. That makes it very difficult to sort out what answer is most likely right for your particular situation. Some of those who respond to these threads are very experienced, knowledgeable, and thoughtful in given their responses; some are not. This results in a lot of confusion for the newbie seeking help, and probably results in them making a lot of wrong choices.

Having someone you could talk to one-on-one, who could evaluate the specifics of your particular situation and give advice without the noise of so many others chiming in to contradict them, would be an astronomical improvement.

Additionally, even reading the most recent books on self-publishing will often give you tips that are already outdated. The only way to learn that is to hear it from someone actively publishing now. Granted, it is possible to learn that on public KB threads, but again, for every commenter who talks about how XYZ strategy is no longer effective for her, another commenter pipes up with how it's still working for him. And perhaps it is, and perhaps it would be effective for the newbie. But the point is, in that kind of environment, it is exceedingly difficult for a newbie to make an informed choice. Instead, you find yourself closing your eyes and choosing blindly.

Why is this such a bad thing, you ask? How is this fundamentally different than striking out on your own with no help or insider knowledge and succeeding or failing on your own merits? Well, because it increases the sense of chaos for the new publisher. We come to this board to get information and guidance so that we don't make stupid mistakes, and often, the guidance comes in the form of "Do this! No, NEVER do that. Do this instead. No, the first thing was right, don't listen to the second one. Well, I've had success with this third thing."

And I'm just making a wild guess here, but it's possible that someone who had difficulty sorting all this and applied some advice that was just wrong for his situation, maybe that helps to foster the kind of resentment that later moves him to lash out at those who were just trying to help. In any case, it probably does result in a lot of people making wrong decisions for the publishing business and frustrated when their books don't sell and nothing seems to be working.

Having just one or two voices giving you advice more tailored to your specific needs would give you more focus and less anxiety. When something wasn't working, your mentor could be the voice of reason saying, "Maybe X isn't going to work for you, so now try Y."

Anyway, this already far, far too long. I just wanted to offer a perspective that I think isn't being fully appreciated. Shutting up now.


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

yomatta said:


> A better solution may be to seek out fellow authors and start a private group to discuss strategies and learn together. The key for learning would be a small(ish) group.


Skype groups can be good for that. They can also be bad for that as writers tend to be a distractible lot and conversations on writing and selling books frequently devolve into discussions on hair dryers and washing machines.



L.L. Akers said:


> Meanwhile, Andre's suggestion is a good one. If you're a newb, find someone whose 'voice' you like on the board, and pm them. The worst they can say is no...maybe they don't have the spare time. But it's worth a shot to try. Thanks, Andre!


They can do worse things than say "No." They could say they think your writing is beyond their help and quite possibly beyond anyone's help and that you should quit immediately and do something more productive and useful with your time, such as picking up litter on the streets and turning in aluminum cans for cash and, to help you be a more productive citizen, they decide to help you out by publicly humiliating you and the collection of words you unjustifiably proudly label as your "work" so as to discourage you from ever trying to write again and to dissuade readers from bothering with any of your titles so as to push you to the previously described recommended occupation, even going so far as to provide you with an affiliate link to a trash picker tool on Amazon and a Google map link to busy streets in your neighborhood for you to get started, all of which would be followed by a stern warning to never contact them again and the filing of a restraining order against you to assure you do not, concluding with a letter sent to your parents admonishing them for not doing a better job of steering you away from writing and into a more suitable career as a trash collector and hoping they did a better job with any siblings you may have.

Or maybe that only happens to me.


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## CindyJo (Mar 10, 2014)

jtbullet said:


> I would like to offer myself up for adoption. I am cuddly, kind, and completely housebroken. Also a great cook of spicy food. Grammar could use some help, but are open to suggestions and criticism.


I'm sadly a beginner too, or I would gladly adopt you up right now.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

LeeBee said:


> Having someone you could talk to one-on-one, who could evaluate the specifics of your particular situation and give advice without the noise of so many others chiming in to contradict them, would be an astronomical improvement.


But how in the world could someone give informed advice to you without reading your work and knowing your entire business model? Do you realize how much time it would take for one person to learn enough about you to give very specific advice that they think would work just for you? Most of us spend full-time hours trying to evaluate and make the next marketing/business move for our own writing, and that's in addition to actually writing books.

And for me personally, no way do I want the responsibility of telling someone what to do, because then they'll hold me responsible if they fail. No one needs that burden.

The bottom line is that this is a business that changes daily. There is no ONE way to be successful. I would argue that there are thousands. But I'd also argue that no two people's needs are exactly the same, nor is their dedication, knowledge and ability. You need to narrow down information to what you think might apply to your situation then make a choice. It's ALWAYS a gamble. No matter how many books you've sold. No matter how big a readership you have. Even bestselling authors make bad decisions about what to write and how to market it. There are no guarantees or crystal balls.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks, LeeBree, Jana and Tn&Aj, and all. Very good points.

I've only been here a year, gearing up to pub my 3rd book, so I'm still new, but I've learned a lot through trial and error. The hardest things for me were the technical things: adding MailChimp, an amazon store and a GR button to FB (and try as I might, I could never walk anyone through that)...even with detailed posts already on these subjects which I used, it was a nightmare. 

But I do have some trial by fire knowledge on a variety of things that I can share. If you're newbier   than me, feel free to pm me and see if I've figured 'it' out. I'll always be glad to help where I can.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Dan C. Rinnert said:


> They can do worse things than say "No." They could say they think your writing is beyond their help and quite possibly beyond anyone's help and that you should quit immediately and do something more productive and useful with your time, such as picking up litter on the streets and turning in aluminum cans for cash and, to help you be a more productive citizen, they decide to help you out by publicly humiliating you and the collection of words you unjustifiably proudly label as your "work" so as to discourage you from ever trying to write again and to dissuade readers from bothering with any of your titles so as to push you to the previously described recommended occupation, even going so far as to provide you with an affiliate link to a trash picker tool on Amazon and a Google map link to busy streets in your neighborhood for you to get started, all of which would be followed by a stern warning to never contact them again and the filing of a restraining order against you to assure you do not, concluding with a letter sent to your parents admonishing them for not doing a better job of steering you away from writing and into a more suitable career as a trash collector and hoping they did a better job with any siblings you may have.
> 
> Or maybe that only happens to me.


Dan, get off the board. You still have three more streets to clean


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## lynnfromthesouth (Jun 21, 2012)

L.L. Akers said:


> I've only been here a year, gearing up to pub my 3rd book, so I'm still new, but I've learned a lot through trial and error. The hardest things for me were the technical things: adding MailChimp, an amazon store and a GR button to FB (and try as I might, I could never walk anyone through that)...even with detailed posts already on these subjects which I used, it was a nightmare.


Those are probably the things a lot of mentors couldn't do, unfortunately. Many writers are not great at technical stuff, and at least for me, I figure out things by messing with them, and I know I couldn't explain how I got there.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Jana DeLeon said:


> The bottom line is that this is a business that changes daily. There is no ONE way to be successful.


Exactly.  Which is why I sometimes ask a question on the board even though I've already done a search and read previous threads on the topic. No one thread answers all the questions! And a thread from 2 months ago might be obsolete today.

I don't always like being just told to go and look up other threads - but I don't respond except to politely say thank you. I've likely already read the thread, but I'm interested in new thoughts, posters who may not have seen the first thread, and continued discussion.

That's not always true, sometimes simple practical answers remain the same and we should all do our best to search on our own for them.

BUT - and I've honestly never been smacked down by anyone - but I've seen posters smacked down for DARING  to ask a question that someone else has asked before.

Information changes. Pointing to another thread is great and I appreciate it - search isn't perfect. But I really like to keep talking about things. And let's face it! All the questions have probably all been answered at some point! We might as well shut the forum down if we're not willing to tolerate a little repetition.

If I'm ever successful, I intend to give back as much as I am able. Because I've received so much here. I think that's all the OP was trying to get at - maybe a somewhat formalized system to facilitate it. I don't honesty think it's needed, but what's wrong with asking about it?! I just saw in another thread that the OP never has any intention of starting a thread again. That's too bad and I hate to see it.


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## LeeBee (Feb 19, 2014)

Jana DeLeon said:


> But how in the world could someone give informed advice to you without reading your work and knowing your entire business model? Do you realize how much time it would take for one person to learn enough about you to give very specific advice that they think would work just for you?


Well, I honestly wasn't suggesting that the mentor would personally have the complete low-down on the author's situation - just the situation as the newbie described it to him or her. I think any mentor interactions should always begin with ground rules, such as "I'm going to give advice on publishing strategies only, no writing evaluations. Everything assumes that you have written the best book you can and that it's professional in appearance and execution," etc. I was not implying that a mentor would need to read all the newbie's work, and I don't think that would be necessary if both parties understood that all advice assumes a baseline as outlined above.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

LeeBee said:


> Everything assumes that you have written the best book you can and that it's professional in appearance and execution," etc. I was not implying that a mentor would need to read all the newbie's work, and I don't think that would be necessary if both parties understood that all advice assumes a baseline as outlined above.


That's a hell of an assumption to make about someone you don't even know. I've made it before and it came right back on me. When they put the first book free and no one bought the second, they blamed me. Not the fact that their first book was not good, and based on the reviews and my subsequent read of the first chapter, that was definitely the problem. And this was a complete stranger that I spent at least an hour answering questions for by PM on Facebook.

I understand your dilemma, but you also have to know that groups of anger, bitter, entitled, unrealistic people make it harder for people to want to help.

ETA: The best book someone can write may still not be enough to entice people to buy and read.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Heather Lori Harding said:


> If I'm ever successful, I intend to give back as much as I am able. Because I've received so much here. I think that's all the OP was trying to get at - maybe a somewhat formalized system to facilitate it. I don't honesty think it's needed, but what's wrong with asking about it?! I just saw in another thread that the OP never has any intention of starting a thread again. That's too bad and I hate to see it.


Thanks, Heather. And I agree completely with your entire post. I did say I'd never start a thread again--in haste, and backtracked and deleted because I don't want anyone else to see my insecurity and have it reflected upon them. I'm more of a responder than an opener, so I will continue to help out where I can. I had a mentor for a short time, but she got too busy and I don't bug her anymore, but what she shared with me was priceless! And she was the first one I called when I got my first really bad review. She coached me into how to undo the damage I'd wrought by replying to it (it was a friend of a previous co-worker so it really stung). So in paying back, I already mentor a newbie(r) myself, and sometimes it does take a lot of time. Many times I have to say, "I don't know the answer, but I bet so-and-so does." And they pm so-and-so and get their answer, then share it with me. So for me, mentoring is paying it forward, and I have no doubt one of these days this newb will quickly surpass me and I hope we can still continue as peers, because being able to bounce something off someone other than your hubby, or a non-writer friend is really awesome.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

> I understand your dilemma, but you also have to know that groups of anger, bitter, entitled, unrealistic people make it harder for people to want to help.


And people are more likely to be like this until they've taken their knocks out in the big bad world. It happened to me. Self publishing requires some serious humility. The best way to get it is by making mistakes and learning you don't know [crap].


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LeeBee said:


> Well, I honestly wasn't suggesting that the mentor would personally have the complete low-down on the author's situation - just the situation as the newbie described it to him or her. I think any mentor interactions should always begin with ground rules, such as "I'm going to give advice on publishing strategies only, no writing evaluations. Everything assumes that you have written the best book you can and that it's professional in appearance and execution," etc. I was not implying that a mentor would need to read all the newbie's work, and I don't think that would be necessary if both parties understood that all advice assumes a baseline as outlined above.


Do you understand how much work it is to figure out and set up such ground rules? Having done this professionally, I can tell you, that sort of prep takes a tremendous amount of (bad) experience in trying to help people before you know what limits to put on....

And, this is the kicker: once you have that experience and put the limits on... the newbie says (almost always) "Thanks but no thanks. That's not what I'm looking for."

I'll give you an instance right now: you say that somebody asks a question and they get three strong opinions and nobody tells you which one is right... well, that's because there is no single answer. And giving you a single answer won't help you.

But I want to clear up one more thing:

You said up above that you thought the response here was "people new to publishing should lift themselves by their own bootstraps." That wasn't at all what people were saying. They were saying "Yeah, it would be nice if you could get that kind of help, but the reality is, nobody has the time to help you individually. They all try, and find it overwhelming."

People aren't telling you what you ought to do (morally) but what you have to do because of the laws of physics.

Now and then the magic happens and you find the right person at the right time of life for both of you. But mostly, you have to make do. Listen to everybody, pick people who are giving you information that makes sense to you, and that you can make use of now. When you've mastered one point of view, look into others.

It is frustrating -- but we've all been there. I once wrote a post that kinda hits on this: On Hatchlings and Neo-Pros.

Camille


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## LeeBee (Feb 19, 2014)

Stepping back in briefly to clarify that no, no one actually used the words "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps." That was my paraphrasing of the various suggestions that one should read every KB post, every book on self-publishing, etc. Which is all good advice, but as I was trying to convey, not always as practically helpful to a new person as it sounds.

For what it's worth, I appreciate all the responses. The fact that so many of you are so passionate about this business and so willing to share your thoughts and experiences is what draws people like me to KB. Thank you for the time you give on this forum.

And now, since I am clearly rubbing lots of people the wrong way, I shall withdraw from the discussion.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

daringnovelist said:


> It is frustrating -- but we've all been there. I once wrote a post that kinda hits on this: On Hatchlings and Neo-Pros.
> Camille


This is an excellent post and considers things from a perspective that most people forget.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

I would accept a person as a mentor no matter what limits/qualifications they decided to put on me. It is a colossal investment in time on a person that may not even care about it.

I had actually been thinking and talking with a few people about starting what would basically amount to a mentoring podcast, where people came on and offered their unique take on varying aspects of production.


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## J. R. Blaisy (Feb 4, 2014)

I wouldn't want a mentor. There are so many opinions out there I wouldn't want to be limited to one person's. 

And as for being ticked off for asking already-answered questions... until yesterday I misinterpreted the Search box and 'site search' button. It looks like just a way of doing a Google search if you're a stupid person. So I didn't know about searching. Perhaps that's because I'm new to fora.

Perhaps when you start a new post the system could automatically search for related threads and politely ask if you'd like to view these first!


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Yeah, I'll mentor people. "What the hell kind of question is that?"..."What'samatta, cant' read?"..."WTF? Are you really axing that?"..."How the hell should I know?"


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

LeeBee said:


> Stepping back in briefly to clarify that no, no one actually used the words "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps." That was my paraphrasing of the various suggestions that one should read every KB post, every book on self-publishing, etc. Which is all good advice, but as I was trying to convey, not always as practically helpful to a new person as it sounds.
> 
> For what it's worth, I appreciate all the responses. The fact that so many of you are so passionate about this business and so willing to share your thoughts and experiences is what draws people like me to KB. Thank you for the time you give on this forum.
> 
> And now, since I am clearly rubbing lots of people the wrong way, I shall withdraw from the discussion.


LeeBee, you clearly have good intentions and your comments are appreciated by many that may not say so here. My pm and FB has been slammed with msgs and I'll sum them up and repeat to you. Thanks for speaking up. Your comments are very valuable to this discussion and any discussion. Don't worry about rubbing people the wrong way--sometimes it may seem that way, but its hard to tell tone from a screen--so I hope you aren't discouraged.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> Yeah, I'll mentor people. "What the hell kind of question is that?"..."What'samatta, cant' read?"..."WTF? Are you really axing that?"..."How the hell should I know?"


And here we have it! Everybody...send all mentor requests to Vrabinec. I feel he is best qualified for the job


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

L.L. Akers said:


> Dan, get off the board. You still have three more streets to clean


Yes, ma'am.

<heads back out to the mean streets of Beigeville, Ohio>​


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

CindyJo said:


> I'm sadly a beginner too, or I would gladly adopt you up right now.


Welcome, CindyJo.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

J.R.Blaisy said:


> Perhaps when you start a new post the system could automatically search for related threads and politely ask if you'd like to view these first!


As I understand it, that is in the works for the forum update that happens tomorrow!


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## CindyJo (Mar 10, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> Welcome, CindyJo.


Thank you very much!


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Cherise Kelley said:


> As I understand it, that is in the works for the forum update that happens tomorrow!


Cool!


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

I can only offer pies and cakes to a mentor...


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

LeeBee said:


> Stepping back in briefly to clarify that no, no one actually used the words "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps." That was my paraphrasing of the various suggestions that one should read every KB post, every book on self-publishing, etc. Which is all good advice, but as I was trying to convey, not always as practically helpful to a new person as it sounds.
> 
> For what it's worth, I appreciate all the responses. The fact that so many of you are so passionate about this business and so willing to share your thoughts and experiences is what draws people like me to KB. Thank you for the time you give on this forum.
> 
> And now, since I am clearly rubbing lots of people the wrong way, I shall withdraw from the discussion.


This is important, so I hope you don't withdraw:

YOU ARE NOT RUBBING ANYONE THE WRONG WAY.

This is how you learn. You ask questions. You persist. And people are not getting annoyed, they're just answering your questions. It happens that the answers are not what you expect, so you don't realize they are answers.

Here's the key, though, you said: "... all good advice, but ... not always as practically helpful to a new person as it sounds."

Here's the thing you missed: *we've all been there*. We actually have been through what you are talking about, so yeah, we know what you're saying. And we're saying, once you've been through it, you realize it's actually much _more_ "practically helpful" than you think. It sounds impossible and overwhelming, but honest, it really is the answer.

To paraphrase the song: You really do have to walk that lonesome valley by yourself.

The other thing is, this isn't a choice between meekly looking up the answers yourself and having a personal mentor to give you "the Answer" (which doesn't exist). You can and should ask questions. (Including the question of "I just got six different answers, how do I figure out which one to listen to?" To get where you want to be, you have to hear the six different answers, and you have to acquire the skill on dealing with the six different answers. And you've got to do that early. It's not something you can skip, or put off. It's an essential creative skill.)

Remember that nobody cares about your stories and your career and your life as much as you do. Nobody is as passionate as you are about what you are doing. You can't count on anybody else catching dropped balls. (Luckily, as with learning to juggle, dropping balls is normal and par for the course.)

Camille


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

J.R.Blaisy said:


> I wouldn't want a mentor. *There are so many opinions out there I wouldn't want to be limited to one person's*.


That's exactly what I was thinking. I like the fact that each thread has many different opinions and experiences on the same subject. To me, THAT is the strength of KB right there. It's all fun and games, right up to the point where the thread gets locked.

This business changes fast and every one of us seems to have a unique experience dealing with it. What works for one writer doesn't work for the next. What works for one writer this month doesn't work for the SAME writer next month. All we can do is walk up to the smorgasbord and pick the options that look most appealing. You can always go back for seconds if the first round doesn't satisfy.

Darn. I'm making myself hungry.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Speaking for my myself, I'd love to help new writers get started. I'm not the most diplomatic person in the world, but it is a point of gratification.

Aside from the time constraints, which is a serious consideration, there's other reasons why I'm not more active in this area. I'm probably not as confident as what some folks might think. Certain aspects of my limited success are still a mystery to me. I can't explain them, let alone guide another down the same path. What's that old adage about "if I could only bottle this?"

Then you have things that are documented as being successful, but I've never done them. I can't guide/coach/mentor a new author through perma free, mail lists, social media, running a Bookbub ad or doing a Goodreads giveaway. I've never done those things, and yet I think they work well for many writers. I would be doing more harm than good if they tried to mimic me.

What I have considered doing is writing a book for indie authors, but it's been done. Again, my lack of experience in the topics above would make it less than a complete reference.

So I go along and answer a post now and then if it's something I have experience with. 

My biggest fear would be hurting someone who gave me their ear.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

Joe_Nobody said:


> So I go along and answer a post now and then if it's something I have experience with.


I believe sharing your experiences is the best kind of advice you can give (YMMV notwithstanding.) FWIW, I appreciate your posts.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I don't think anyone was suggesting a mentor would provide every answer to every question for a mentee. Just that it would be someone they could turn to on some basic questions when they are new here, kinda like a first forum friend. The way I interpreted it was a way for a noob to avoid asking the exact same questions asked 3-5 times a week on different threads, or something like that. And mentors wouldn't so much give just their opinion as help the noob find resources. Unless I misunderstood. 

But keep in mind some of you are basically arguing in favor of debating things to death pointlessly, which can only confuse noobs. How many threads do we need re-debating familiar issues like is Scrivener the shiznit or not? One good thread on that should suffice with all opinions represented there, right? 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I would be in favor of only having as many threads as could fit on the opening page, and just combining all of the threads on the board into those. I bet it wouldn't even be hard to find correct titles so that it made sense.


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## nobody_important (Jul 9, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> I've only been here a year, gearing up to pub my 3rd book, so I'm still new, but I've learned a lot through trial and error. The hardest things for me were the technical things: adding MailChimp, an amazon store and a GR button to FB (and try as I might, I could never walk anyone through that)...even with detailed posts already on these subjects which I used, it was a nightmare.


Then what you need is not a mentor but an IT person who you can pay some $ to do all that technical work for you. I know a lady who's really really good at that kind of things, and her rate's very good. PM me if you're interested.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

NadiaLee said:


> Then what you need is not a mentor but an IT person who you can pay some $ to do all that technical work for you. I know a lady who's really really good at that kind of things, and her rate's very good. PM me if you're interested.


I'm not looking for a mentor. I've already muddled thru that hard stuff and about to pub my 3rd book. This OP was a suggestion for new people. However, if someone wants to adopt me anyway...lol.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> I'm not looking for a mentor. I've already muddled thru that hard stuff and about to pub my 3rd book. This OP was a suggestion for new people. However, if someone wants to adopt me anyway...lol.


You're not even to 1,000 posts yet... you're new.  LOL


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Joe_Nobody said:


> My biggest fear would be hurting someone who gave me their ear.


I've been following you on the board for a while now Joe and just wanted to say Thank You for all the advice you have shared. I have been known to throw a PM or two your way asking questions that I am sure others have probably asked. Your advice is always welcome and appreciated. It's up to receiver to decide if it works for them or not. 

Chrispy


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> You're not even to 1,000 posts yet... you're new.  LOL


Yes, I am! Does that mean you'll take me. 
J/K


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Jana DeLeon said:


> But how in the world could someone give informed advice to you without reading your work and knowing your entire business model? Do you realize how much time it would take for one person to learn enough about you to give very specific advice that they think would work just for you? Most of us spend full-time hours trying to evaluate and make the next marketing/business move for our own writing, and that's in addition to actually writing books.
> 
> And for me personally, no way do I want the responsibility of telling someone what to do, because then they'll hold me responsible if they fail. No one needs that burden.
> 
> *The bottom line is that this is a business that changes daily. There is no ONE way to be successful. I would argue that there are thousands. But I'd also argue that no two people's needs are exactly the same, nor is their dedication, knowledge and ability. You need to narrow down information to what you think might apply to your situation then make a choice. It's ALWAYS a gamble. No matter how many books you've sold. No matter how big a readership you have. Even bestselling authors make bad decisions about what to write and how to market it. There are no guarantees or crystal balls.*


And:



daringnovelist said:


> This is important, so I hope you don't withdraw:
> 
> *YOU ARE NOT RUBBING ANYONE THE WRONG WAY.
> 
> ...


And this one:



daringnovelist said:


> Do you understand how much work it is to figure out and set up such ground rules? Having done this professionally, I can tell you, that sort of prep takes a tremendous amount of (bad) experience in trying to help people before you know what limits to put on....
> 
> And, this is the kicker: once you have that experience and put the limits on... the newbie says (almost always) "Thanks but no thanks. That's not what I'm looking for."
> 
> ...


These quotes said it better than I can, especially the bolded portions.

There are no shortcuts to learning to write or to self-publish. You have to put in the time and effort, and even then there are no guarantees. So you might make the wrong choice somewhere. So what? It's not like there's a blindfold and a last cigarette waiting for you. Which is a lucky thing, considering the mistakes I've made in the last three years.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Not exactly an answer to the mentor question but what do y'all think about starting a regular meet up on Google Hangouts to discuss Self Publishing? A couple of author friends and I have been meeting up locally to discuss things. Seems like  natural way to get together with video/voice over the web. What do you think?


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

That's an awesome idea, Chrispy. But would we have to get dressed


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## LeeBee (Feb 19, 2014)

L.L. Akers said:


> That's an awesome idea, Chrispy. But would we have to get dressed


I see no reason to insist on that.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

LeeBee said:


> I see no reason to insist on that.


LMAO, me too, I'd at least have to choose a nice background


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