# Amazon's Website Change for the Agency Model



## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I wondered how Amazon was going to display agency model prices - if they were going to highlight that they are no longer setting prices. Well, now I know:










I like it.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Bravo Amazon!


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Yup, I like that wording also.  Gives amazon a good out.


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## meglet (Feb 14, 2009)

Nice! 

I haven't seen the note on any of the books on my wish list, but some of the books aren't available right now. It will be interesting to see what the prices do when they come back.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Simple and to the point.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I saw that on one of the books I was looking at, too!  Good.

Betsy


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

I like this a LOT.  Not only "set by publisher", but which PARENT company is the publisher.  Kudos, Amazon.


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## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

Good Job Amazon. Let everyone know who's fault it is. That the e-book price is higher now.


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## meglet (Feb 14, 2009)

Ooh, I spoke too soon! Looks like the Kathy Reichs books I was thinking about are marked this way. My favorite is pricing for "206 Bones" at $7.99 for paperback and $9.99 for the Kindle version, although that's probably because the paperback isn't officially released yet.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

On the Kindle version of the Kindle Store the "The Price was set by the publisher" is bolded and stands out quite well.

I wish they put the prices of the paperback/hardback on here too. Looks like I'll be buying more of my books via the computer instead of the Kindle.


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

Excellent - that is information I really wanted to have! It will definitely help in my book buying choices.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

meglet said:


> Ooh, I spoke too soon! Looks like the Kathy Reichs books I was thinking about are marked this way. My favorite is pricing for "206 Bones" at $7.99 for paperback and $9.99 for the Kindle version, although that's probably because the paperback isn't officially released yet.


Well, and that's the way it's always been. I double check the release date on the paperback before I start ranting about the pricing for the Kindle edition. LOL

However, found an interesting one: Finger Lickin' Fifteen, Janet Evanovich--out in hardcover since last summer, and I bought the Kindle edition at that time. It's now showing as a *preorder* for Kindle, at $12.99, with a *June 2010* release date that matches the $7.99 paperback. And MacMillan as the publisher.  Probably a clerical error. Or at least hopefully a mistake, for MacMillan's sake, because that type of nonsense is EXACTLY what people are worried about.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> On the Kindle version of the Kindle Store the "The Price was set by the publisher" is bolded and stands out quite well.
> 
> I wish they put the prices of the paperback/hardback on here too. Looks like I'll be buying more of my books via the computer instead of the Kindle.


They generally *are* listed, under the various formats beneath the title/price area of the order page. I use them for comparison all the time, and if you mouse over the format, it will tell you if there's an upcoming release date without having to click through.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> They generally *are* listed, under the various formats beneath the title/price area of the order page. I use them for comparison all the time, and if you mouse over the format, it will tell you if there's an upcoming release date without having to click through.


They are on the computer but not on the Kindle Version.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> They are on the computer but not on the Kindle Version.


LOL--now that makes more sense!

I wish they'd put series order on the direct from Kindle order pages. Not every publisher or author puts the sequence number in the title.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

VictoriaP said:


> LOL--now that makes more sense!
> 
> I wish they'd put series order on the direct from Kindle order pages.


That would make my life easier. I internally combust if I read a book out of order.


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## Bren S. (May 10, 2009)

Geoffrey said:


> I wondered how Amazon was going to display agency model prices - if they were going to highlight that they are no longer setting prices. Well, now I know:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice job by Amazon.


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## Addie (Jun 10, 2009)

Ooh. I like it.

While most of the books I've been watching under the five have increased in price, _The Wilderness Warrior_ actually went down from $19.24 to $16.99. I mean, that's still ridiculously high when the pb is $13.49, but it's interesting.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

Go Amazon!!! Nothing like full disclosure.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Not only are they adding all of this now, but prices are jumping. About 30 minutes ago *Little Bee: A Novel* by Chris Cleve was $8.40 (same price as the paperback) and it did not have the _price set by publisher_ tag, it's now $9.99 and the tag is there.


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## Magenta (Jun 6, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> Not only are they adding all of this now, but prices are jumping. About 30 minutes ago *Little Bee: A Novel* by Chris Cleve was $8.40 (same price as the paperback) and it did not have the _price set by publisher_ tag, it's now $9.99 and the tag is there.


Well, so many kindlers have been saying the $9.99 price is the acceptable threshold. However, it makes NO sense to sell a kindle book at a price higher than the paperback.

I just keep putting these books on my shopping list. I can wait for a long time for the prices to drop.


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

Geoffrey said:


> I wondered how Amazon was going to display agency model prices - if they were going to highlight that they are no longer setting prices. Well, now I know:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Snicker...per Len Edgerly of The Kindle Chronicles, the price is NOW $9.99--I checked it too. *Love *how they moved the price out of the Amazon price column.


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## dnagirl (Oct 21, 2009)

Well done, Amazon.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Jesslyn said:


> *Love *how they moved the price out of the Amazon price column.


YES!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!

Amazon is making themselves loud and clear that this is NOT their idea.

On a side note- I'm glad I purchased *Saving CeeCee Honeycutt* yesterday for $9.99 because it's $12.99 today <sigh>


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Love love love the way Amazon is making this distinction!  It's going to be incredibly obvious which publishers are trying to overcharge.


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## Pirate (Jul 5, 2009)

When I see pricing changes like these, I check to see it I can get it used. If so I order it from a used book seller. Hurts the author but no one said life was fair.


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## MAGreen (Jan 5, 2009)

WTG Amazon! This will make book buying decisions soooo much easier!


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## dablab (Feb 10, 2009)

Starting today and continuing on I plan on emailing publishers of books that I am interested in if they follow this pricing plan.  If the book is above the paperback price I will not buy it.  I have already emailed some publishers.  I have purchased many more books than ever before since getting my kindle and have an extensive TBR list to keep me busy or I will get the book for free at the library.  Maybe if more people start contacting them and their sales drop they will get the message.  Poor publicity and decreased sales should make a point.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

I fully intend to contact both the publisher and author each time I do not purchase a book because of pricing. Especially in situations where the ebook is priced higher than the paper book.I think Amazon is counting on that which is why they put the publisher information in a very visible spot now.


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## Starearedkid (Jan 25, 2010)

I only wish B&N would do this on their site. Most of the books I read, I do know their publishers--but it would still be nice and clear that the price was set by the publishers.


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## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

luvmy4brats said:


> I fully intend to contact both the publisher and author each time I do not purchase a book because of pricing. Especially in situations where the ebook is priced higher than the paper book.I think Amazon is counting on that which is why they put the publisher information in a very visible spot now.


That is a great idea. I am going to do that also.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

luvmy4brats said:


> I fully intend to contact both the publisher and author each time I do not purchase a book because of pricing. Especially in situations where the ebook is priced higher than the paper book.I think Amazon is counting on that which is why they put the publisher information in a very visible spot now.


Yes! Way to go!

Betsy


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

I'd love if someone would post their wording for their emails to publishers, as well as addresses. Or is that already listed somewhere?


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## corkyb (Apr 25, 2009)

Too bad Amazon doesn't post the email addresses for the publisher right there in clickable form.  Maybe we could compile a list of publishers and email addresses and have a sticky at the top of one of the threads here.  Whatever we can do to make it easier to write the publishers, we should do.
Paula ny


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

corkyb said:


> Maybe we could compile a list of publishers and email addresses and have a sticky at the top of one of the threads here.


I think this is a FANTASTIC idea.


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## Anne (Oct 29, 2008)

corkyb said:


> Too bad Amazon doesn't post the email addresses for the publisher right there in clickable form. Maybe we could compile a list of publishers and email addresses and have a sticky at the top of one of the threads here. Whatever we can do to make it easier to write the publishers, we should do.
> Paula ny


That is a Great Idea.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

hmmm the book I've been considering isn't back up yet. It's listed on the print version with a kindle price but when you click it it takes you to an error page and it doesn't show up in a kindle search. Oh well I'm still reading my present book anyway.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Rasputina said:


> hmmm the book I've been considering isn't back up yet. It's listed on the print version with a kindle price but when you click it it takes you to an error page and it doesn't show up in a kindle search. Oh well I'm still reading my present book anyway.


Probably a Penguin imprint--those seem to be the last ones that haven't quite agreed to their exact contract with Amazon.


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## Rasputina (May 6, 2009)

Actually it's Little Brown. But it does just seem to be delay in the page getting back up.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

House at Riverton is now priced at $12.99.  The paperback is $6.00.  Simon and Schuster.
Good book.  Glad I've already read it.

Elaine
Norman, OK


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

I recently got an email from Sony saying that the price increase was a good thing. I couldn't believe it. I had to read it twice. I have the 500, which is the original. 1 of the main reasons for getting a Kindle was for the lower book prices. Also the store was just aweful to navigate, but that's besides the point. All I can say is, "who are they kidding"?
    Go Amazon. Whoo hoo! That's something that I would do too. Nice touch, Bezos.


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## MagicalWingLT (May 12, 2009)

*smirks* Within a few months the publishers will realise they made a big mistake... Once people see this on Amazon they'll complain and send e mails to the publishers... I wouldn't be suprised if their servers get flooded with e mails... mwhahaha >=)


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

I've seen a couple of books that are actually lower in price than they were when I checked recently, despite having the Scarlet Letter "price set by publisher" notice.  And a fair number are still $9.99 as they were.  But more than half have gone up in price.

I actually think this will "work" in a sense for the publishers for awhile.  Ebook sales will fall, and I think few people will buy hardbacks instead of ebooks because of pricing, but there won't be any way to prove that.  So publishers will congratulate themselves for awhile in thinking that they've strangled the ebook beast in the cradle.  Will be interesting to see if Random House ebooks do better, and if their hardback sales don't suffer compared to other publishers.  That may provide a controlled experiment of a sort for the publishers.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Rasputina said:


> Actually it's Little Brown. But it does just seem to be delay in the page getting back up.


Little Brown is Hatchette--the other major publisher still working with Amazon to resolve their contract. Forgot they were still working on that.



ElaineOK said:


> House at Riverton is now priced at $12.99. The paperback is $6.00. Simon and Schuster.
> Good book. Glad I've already read it.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, OK


The paperback is also a limited quantity offer with special discount pricing. Over at B&N, the paperback is nearly $10--also a limited time thing. You're right, it's too expensive and they really should lower the ebook price to match, but I wonder how many of those paperbacks are actually out there at those prices and what the "real" price on the pb will be. I do expect since we've already seen adjustments tonight, that they'll be tweaking prices a bit over the next several days either due to errors or due to recognition of total idiocy. LOL

That's the first S&S book I've seen with higher than paperback pricing; all the others I've looked up so far have been....three guesses.... MacMillan!



MagicalWingLT said:


> *smirks* Within a few months the publishers will realise they made a big mistake... Once people see this on Amazon they'll complain and send e mails to the publishers... I wouldn't be suprised if their servers get flooded with e mails... mwhahaha >=)


Without a direct link from the order page to email, 99% of the public won't bother sending anything, certainly not consistently. And we're only between 2-4% of their market share to begin with--the publishers won't even blink at that, even if EVERYONE sent email. The real impact will be felt both in reduced sales and if the media makes a lot of noise about it.


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## DenverRalphy (Mar 24, 2010)

It's late in the morning and I just got home from work (3:30am for me) so if I'm talkin nonsense, feel free to point it out....

IMHO, I think it would be more effective if you contacted/eMailed the _Authors _of the books who's ebook price is higher than the paperback. I'm not familiar with the ins-and-outs of contracts most authors have with a publisher, but I'd venture to guess big name authors have a bit of clout should they threaten to change publishers, or at the very least strong-arm their next contractual obligation. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if some big name authors opted to take a risk and toy with the idea of writing a digital only release and market it themselves, just to see if it were a profitable venture (It has been done in the music industry to some success).


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## farrellclaire (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm liking the way they're handling the situation - would love to see exactly how sales are affected this month.  I hope people pay attention and that there is a considerable reaction to it.


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## larryb52 (Nov 18, 2009)

it's nice to see the content back & Amazon handled it well, good job...


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## brian70 (Mar 26, 2010)

Good job Amazon.


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## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> That would make my life easier. I internally combust if I read a book out of order.


I thought I was the only one!


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## LindaW (Jan 14, 2009)

ElaineOK said:


> House at Riverton is now priced at $12.99. The paperback is $6.00. Simon and Schuster.
> Good book. Glad I've already read it.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, OK


I agree, good book - glad I read it last summer! I would never pay that for an e-book.


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

I have been looking at the Twilight books, as I am almost done with Eclipse which I paid 4.99 for a week ago, it is now 9.99. So is Twilight even though the paperback is only $6! They had the "Price set by publisher" on there last night but today it is gone?

I am now debating on getting the 4th, Breaking Dawn and paying the extra $1, it is now 10.99 or seeing if I can pick up a used copy... somewhere. Or I may just wait... and see if the price drops.



I also vote for a publisher sticky!!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Might I suggest folks also email Amazon. . . and let them know that you approve of the full disclosure on the book pricing so that they will have data of positive feedback from customers.  That'll help them if they start getting pressure from publishers not to have the info presented the way it is.


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## whiterab (May 29, 2009)

I've been going through my wish list this morning checking out prices.  Looks like several of them just defaulted to $9.99 on some of their books even though the paper backs were cheaper.

I do support contacting the publishers when the e-book is more expensive than the paperback because;
- ebooks are cheaper to publish and distribute than paperbacks
- the purchaser looses rights to resale, gift and/or share the book with others (MUCH to the publishers benefit)

Basically an e-book purchase for a price higher than a paperback is a win/win for the publisher and a loose/loose for the purchaser.  If these guys are really interested in setting the resale prices than they need to staff up to handle the concerns created by those prices.  

I think any note to the publishers needs to be respectful to the point that they cannot dismiss the mailing as a crank complaint.


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## worktolive (Feb 3, 2009)

Even with my K, I rarely bought newly released books, because with the volume of books I buy (over 300 last year), $9.99 is still a lot. Therefore, for me, the saddest thing about this mess is that Amazon has been forced to stop given the $1-$2 discount that they were previously giving for mass market paperbacks. Before today, if the MMPB was $7.99, Amazon usually sold it for $6.99. If the MMPB was $6.99, Amazon sold it for $5.59 - $5.99. Now, on every one of the agency priced books, the Kindle price is exactly the same as the MMPB price. That $1 difference may not seem like much, but if you buy 300 books, that's $300 over the course of a year. 

When you consider that I can't trade this book or resell it to a used book store, or donate it to the library, it just isn't right that the ebook should be the same price as the DTB. I don't really own it, in effect, I'm just renting it. 

I'm taking a deep breath and preparing myself to go back to buying and reading used DTBs and library books at least some of the time to balance out my budget. I read exactly one DTB last year and that was only because it was for my bookclub and wasn't available in K format.


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## chipotle (Jan 1, 2010)

Well I'm depressed.  I went through my 7 page Kindle wishlist and there is not one single
ebook in the "price set by publisher" category that is less expensive than the MMPB. The
Kindle versions are either priced the same or 2-3$ more. Some ebooks are priced higher
than the hardcover version.

For some reason I was hoping that romance novels wouldn't be affected with price increases
as much as the bestsellers but all Susan Elizabeth Phillip's ebooks used to be $5.59 and now 
they are $7.99, the same price as the MMPB. It looks like most of Julia Quinn's (an author I just
discovered) ebooks are priced the same as the paperback as well. It appears most books on 
my Kindle wishlist (mostly chick lit and romance) have increased in price if they have an agency 
model publisher, no matter how old the book is. 

Here are some examples:

Barbara Delinsky's Facets is $7.99, $3 more than the MMPB. There is no hardcover version.
Secrets of the Tudor Court is now $12.99, paperback is $11.52. There is no hardcover version.
Anne Rivers Siddons Up Island is now $9.99, the MMPB is $7.99. The book  is 11 yrs old.


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## meglet (Feb 14, 2009)

Jesslyn said:


> *Love *how they moved the price out of the Amazon price column.


Hah! I totally missed that the first time, that's awesome!

I totally agree there should be a sticky with publisher and author emails for "feedback" on purchases.

Sadly, though, in a few months to a year, most of us that are angry about the prices changes right now will have moved on or gotten used to the higher prices, and will be paying $14.99 for an ebook instead of, say, $6.99 that it used to be. Maybe, if we're really lucky, they'll throw us an "it's DRM-free now!" bone like Apple did when they raised the prices on songs in the iTunes store, but I doubt it.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm seeing some books that had been priced lower than 9.99 for a long time that are now 9.99, and they don't say the publisher set the price.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

One of those has just returned to 9.36 price -- just looked. It's http://www.amazon.com/Helmet-My-Pillow-Pacific-ebook/dp/B0035J5DJ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1270323999&sr=1-1-spell

It's a Bantam (Random House) book. I was concerned last night that everything including the publishers not participating in the agency model were going up.

(Not that 9.36 is a big savings over 9.99, but it's the idea that matters.)


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

mlewis78 said:


> One of those has just returned to 9.36 price -- just looked. It's http://www.amazon.com/Helmet-My-Pillow-Pacific-ebook/dp/B0035J5DJ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1270323999&sr=1-1-spell
> 
> It's a Bantam (Random House) book. I was concerned last night that everything including the publishers not participating in the agency model were going up.
> 
> (Not that 9.36 is a big savings over 9.99, but it's the idea that matters.)


Interesting that it's exactly the same price as the paperback--do you remember what it was before? If a non-agency book price goes up, we know that's Amazon's doing, not the publisher--but with Amazon, prices *literally* can fluctuate daily. LOL I'd just keep an eye on it and see what happens.



meglet said:


> Hah! I totally missed that the first time, that's awesome!
> 
> I totally agree there should be a sticky with publisher and author emails for "feedback" on purchases.
> 
> Sadly, though, in a few months to a year, most of us that are angry about the prices changes right now will have moved on or gotten used to the higher prices, and will be paying $14.99 for an ebook instead of, say, $6.99 that it used to be. Maybe, if we're really lucky, they'll throw us an "it's DRM-free now!" bone like Apple did when they raised the prices on songs in the iTunes store, but I doubt it.


I don't believe that the long term price changes will be as drastic as rising to $14.99 from $6.99. I DO think that somewhere between $12.99 - 14.99 will become the norm for new releases at the time of the hardcover release, but I can't imagine most people are going to tolerate higher prices on books that are out in paperback.

What we could lose are the 10-15% discounts we've enjoyed from the paperback price. The publishers who aren't charging even higher rates for ebooks appear to be pretty consistently charging prices identical to the pb "suggested retail" price. I'll be interested to see what Penguin does when they finally settle. Wonder what the primary contract issue is with them?


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I went through my wishlist on the 2nd and again today.  my not very scientific results based on parent publishing house look like this:

The Simon & Schuster, Hatchette and HarperCollins books on average went up in price.  
Many of the Penguin books actually went down.  
Macmillan books had already mostly been increased, so there weren't as many changes in that group - although a series of older Tor novels did go from 6.39 to 7.99 and now match the pbook price.  
Random House seems to be off for the holiday weekend as their books didn't change that much at all.
The smaller publishing groups and indie authors had some fluxuations but no more than usual.

Overall, 79 of the 142 books on my list are now outside my price point (they are greater than 84% of the pbook price and therefore ineligible) ... but that means half the books on my list are still eligible to be purchased.  Three books are currently not listed as ebooks.  The overall cost to buy all the books on my list increased by about $100.  I'm disappointed that some titles will not be considered on my next shopping spree, but c'est la vie ... I can wait


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Geoffrey--two things to note:  

Penguin's books are not yet under the agency system, that's why Penguin preorders currently don't show as available in Kindle format (they're also gone from B&N and Sony as I understand it).  As of Friday, they still had not finalized their agency model contract with Amazon.  This is one I'm keeping my eye closely on as I have a TON of authors I like under their imprint.  I have to admit I'm incredibly nervous about how they'll handle it, and I do fully expect that at a minimum we'll see their books jump to current paperback prices.  Most of what I stocked up on this past week belonged to them.

Random House is also not under the agency system and has no known plans to do such at this time.  So I wouldn't expect much, if any, fluctuation on their prices unless they make a move to adopt the new pricing scheme.  They are the largest publisher, so they'd take the biggest financial hit in terms of how much they actually net from this move.


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## 4Katie (Jun 27, 2009)

luvmy4brats said:


> That would make my life easier. I internally combust if I read a book out of order.


I hear you. I have my books, and books I want to read, on an Excel spreadsheet with a column for the order of books in a series, for just that reason!


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## austenfiend (Nov 17, 2009)

As someone suggested in another area, she is going to write to the publishers of books that she's had on her "wish list" to say that she will not be buying the books at these prices.  If enough people do this...


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## vickir (Jan 14, 2009)

I love it. I'm waiting for the prices to come down before buying books.


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## austenfiend (Nov 17, 2009)

I loved the idea that someone had about e-mailing the publishers.  For some reason I wasn't able to find an email to send to (I'm not the most gifted technologically) but I sent snail mail letters to two of the publishers.  The addresses (and moderators, if I wasn't supposed to give the information or if it should go somewhere else, I'm sorry about that!) -

HarperCollins Publishers
10 East 53rd Street
New York, NY  10022

Hatchette Book Group
3 Center Plaza
Boston, MA  02108

To those that are saying that if the e-book price is the same or higher than the DTB and they will just buy the DTB, I believe that this is what the publishers are hoping we'll do.  I'm looking at all the books I currently have and will be just reading those for the time being, while I'm "on strike" trying to make a point.  I'm hoping that enough people will do this so the publishers will be aware of our unhappiness with this issue.  If we had e-mail addresses, it would be SO COOL to be able to shoot off an email every time we try to buy a book and say "Sirs, I was going to buy XYZ book today, but you won't be getting my money because of the price."


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## loca (Jan 3, 2010)

austenfiend said:


> As someone suggested in another area, she is going to write to the publishers of books that she's had on her "wish list" to say that she will not be buying the books at these prices. If enough people do this...


Good, hopefully it will create a domino effect.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

Remember, we are not the publishers' customers.  No, seriously, we are not.  Their customers are people who buy books from them -- i.e., retailers, wholesalers and distributors.  Certainly they should care what we think, do and will do; but I think you will find that they aren't set up to process feedback from retail shoppers.  

Elaine
Norman, OK


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## RiddleMeThis (Sep 15, 2009)

ElaineOK said:


> Remember, we are not the publishers' customers. No, seriously, we are not. Their customers are people who buy books from them -- i.e., retailers, wholesalers and distributors. Certainly they should care what we think, do and will do; but I think you will find that they aren't set up to process feedback from retail shoppers.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, OK


With the new agency model we ARE their customers. We are now buying DIRECTLY from them. They get no money until we purchase an e book, unlike the money they get when bookstores buy DTBs and then we buy from the bookstores.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

austenfiend said:


> To those that are saying that if the e-book price is the same or higher than the DTB and they will just buy the DTB, I believe that this is what the publishers are hoping we'll do. I'm looking at all the books I currently have and will be just reading those for the time being, while I'm "on strike" trying to make a point. I'm hoping that enough people will do this so the publishers will be aware of our unhappiness with this issue. If we had e-mail addresses, it would be SO COOL to be able to shoot off an email every time we try to buy a book and say "Sirs, I was going to buy XYZ book today, but you won't be getting my money because of the price."


The vast majority of my book purchases are ebooks. I do not intend to change that. If an ebook doesn't match my pricing model, then I'll just wait until it does match. What I'm curious about is the sales numbers after a month or a quarter using this Agency Model. If ebook sales drop but the pbook sales don't increase proportionately, then that may be an early indicator that this idea will be short lived. It won't really be a trend after only one quarter, but it will be interesting anyways ....


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## pawsplus (Mar 31, 2009)

I totally agree w/ Geoffrey.  Just be PATIENT, folks!  I've yet to have a book I wanted but thought was too pricey not drop in price if I waited for it.  Just make a note to check on it every few weeks.  It will eventually come down to you, even if it takes a few months. In the meantime, there are MANY other books out there to read! Your patience in NOT buying the DTB and WAITING for the e-book to be reasonably priced will teach the pubs what we want them to learn.


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## AppleBlossom (Jul 9, 2009)

How do authors fit into this whole thing? Doesn't a boycott hurt them?  I have (had) a few books on my wishlist that were affected by the price increases, and I just won't pay the higher price.  But, at the same time, I sympathize with the author who is not one of the big named ones.

I'm a romance reader and some of the authors I like publish on both Harlequin and HarperCollins.  While the Harlequin prices remain the same (for right now), the HC ones went through the roof.

To be honest, with all of this mess, Half Price Books is growing more and more my store of choice...


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

Even with agency pricing we are not the publisher's customers.  We still buy books from Amazon or from Barnes and Noble.  The publisher is simply setting the price, and the way that Amazon or Barnes and Noble transfers money to the publisher has changed.  Even if we were buying directly from the publisher (and it is possible to buy ebooks directly from Tor), don't expect that they would have retail customer service/complaint response systems set up and working any time soon.

How the authors fit into this is almost as interesting as how the Publisher's corporate owners fit into this.  None of these publishers is independent.  They are all part of larger corporations who have a thing about making money.  Authors have contracted exclusive rights to the publishers and in exchange are owed certain things -- presumably, including a duty to effectively market the author's product.  

This all started at the beginning of the 2nd quarter.  Ebooks are just starting to be a big enough chunk of sales to matter.  If ebook sales are down significantly and paper sales don't make up the gap for 2nd quarter, then we can expect to see real change.  My hunch (just a hunch) is that Amazon is expecting ebook sales to decline dramatically without a corresponding uptick in paper sales.  That puts Amazon in a better position to encourage better pricing schemes without having to subsidize the prices the way they have been.  Oh, and remember that one of the big 6 didn't play along with agency pricing.  I don't expect to see the other big 5 ceding a significant competitive advantage to one major publisher for long.

Only time will tell, but I think time is best measured in terms of quarters.

Elaine 
Norman, OK


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## akw4572 (Nov 3, 2008)

I'll be honest, if the book doesn't fit my pricing model, I'll get it at the library, and not give the publisher any money.


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## J.L. Penn (Mar 17, 2010)

So basically the publishers are miffed about the ebook revolution and are, therefore, trying to squelch it by making their pricing unattractive.  Interesting tactic.  So I guess this will either be the rise of the indies (thereby backfiring on the big pubs) or Amazon will have to find a new way to battle the big pubs.  Guess they can't all just play nice and accept the virtually inevitable fate of the publishing industry.

Regarding the new "agency model," when does the 70% royalty thing go into effect?  I thought that wasn't until like June.  Has it already happened?  I did notice today (may have happened even sooner) that DTP is dictating minimum prices based on file size now.  It used to be $0.99 across the board but now it's either $0.99, $1.99, or even $2.99 based on file size.

-Jenn


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

ElaineOK said:


> Ebooks are just starting to be a big enough chunk of sales to matter. If ebook sales are down significantly and paper sales don't make up the gap for 2nd quarter, then we can expect to see real change. My hunch (just a hunch) is that Amazon is expecting ebook sales to decline dramatically without a corresponding uptick in paper sales. That puts Amazon in a better position to encourage better pricing schemes without having to subsidize the prices the way they have been. Oh, and remember that one of the big 6 didn't play along with agency pricing. I don't expect to see the other big 5 ceding a significant competitive advantage to one major publisher for long.
> 
> Only time will tell, but I think time is best measured in terms of quarters.
> 
> ...


I agree, I'm going to continue buying books in the same range I was before. I will not pay as much or more than the DTB version. Instead, if I must read that book then I will be hitting the 1/2 price bookstore or library. I feel bad about not supporting the authors that way, but this is too much. i'm not paying more than DTB, that is just ridiculous


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

ElaineOK said:


> Even with agency pricing we are not the publisher's customers. We still buy books from Amazon or from Barnes and Noble. The publisher is simply setting the price, and the way that Amazon or Barnes and Noble transfers money to the publisher has changed. Even if we were buying directly from the publisher (and it is possible to buy ebooks directly from Tor), don't expect that they would have retail customer service/complaint response systems set up and working any time soon.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, OK


Please read this thread. It has an email from Amazon in it.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,22488.msg419330/topicseen.html#new

_Recently, several publishers modified their relationship with Amazon to an agency model *whereby the publisher, not Amazon, sells the Kindle book.* Kindle books sold by the publisher are subject to sales tax based on the publisher's state tax reporting obligations and the taxability of digital books in those states._


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

Then, you should dispute any charges on your credit card that say Amazon.com -- because you didn't buy it from them.

Elaine
Norman, OK


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

ElaineOK said:


> Then, you should dispute any charges on your credit card that say Amazon.com -- because you didn't buy it from them.
> 
> Elaine
> Norman, OK


By switching to the Agency model, it turns the publisher into a third party seller. It's no different than going to Amazon and seeing "sold by XXXXXXX" It still shows up as a charge from Amazon, still shows up in my Amazon account, but clearly states that it's a third party selling it. The Kindle pages now show that the publisher is setting the price and the price is no longer under "Amazon's Price" in the different format box.

Well, with your reasoning, I should be able to buy whatever I want from third party sellers through Amazon and then dispute the charges. I don't think that's going to fly.


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## ElaineOK (Jun 5, 2009)

You're right.  It won't fly, but it won't fly, because you agreed to the transaction and received the goods promised.  However, if you receive a defective ebook, Amazon will handle the exchange.  If you order something by accident, you contact Amazon to remove the charge and the book.  Amazon marketplace is different.  I ordered something from a marketplace seller that did not conform to the item description.  I dealt with the seller directly. In that case Amazon is hosting someone else's listing.  That isn't the case with ebooks.  Look at the sales screen.  It doesn't say sold to you by the publisher.  It says the price was set by the publisher.  

I think everyone involved wants us to believe that we are dealing directly with the publisher, but we aren't.  We are still dealing with Amazon.  That is why sales tax should still be collected from all Washington State residents.  Amazon has a facility, there.  It will be collected in States where the respective Publisher has facilities, because of the nexus of control -- at least I think that is the proper term, it has been 20+ years since corporate tax class -- exercised by the Publisher over the price.  Agency pricing is a concept carved out around a court decision to avoid vertical price fixing allegations.  See Leegin Creative Leather Products Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., 127 S.Ct. 2705 (2007) and Valupest.com of Charlotte, Inc. v. Bayer Corp., Docket no. 07-1760 (4th Cir. March 24, 2009) for a fairly complete analysis.  In order to fit within the exception to vertical price fixing, the publishers will try to appear as if they have a true agent-principal relationship with Amazon and other ebook sellers.  That, at the very least, takes them out of per se price fixing territory and puts them into a test allowing reasonable control.  At the best, it removes them completely from price fixing scrutiny.  Personally, I would like to see the current set up tested; but I don't think that is likely to happen.  

Oh, well.  I shall have to get my sport elsewhere.  

Elaine
Norman, OK


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## RiddleMeThis (Sep 15, 2009)

ElaineOK said:


> It doesn't say sold to you by the publisher. It says the price was set by the publisher.


Yes it does.



> Sold by:	HarperCollins Publishers


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

RiddleMeThis said:


>


That looks pretty clear to me. Thank you RiddleMeThis for that excellent screenshot.

And here's Geoffrey's screen shot in the original post:










see the prices in the box... Not Amazon's price.


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## artsandhistoryfan (Feb 7, 2009)

akw4572 said:


> I'll be honest, if the book doesn't fit my pricing model, I'll get it at the library, and not give the publisher any money.


 Of course Macmillan's CEO John Sargent is proud of the fact he doesn't allow any of their
e-books in any public library.

It figures though, doesn't it.


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## worktolive (Feb 3, 2009)

After buying a total of 2 DTBs last year (out of 300+ books purchased and read), I bought 10 DTBs today!!! Oh, but wait, the publishers didn't get a dime of that money because the books were all bought from a used book store at $0.50 - $1.00 each. 

I hope they are happy with their new pricing scheme. I'm actually going to come out ahead because I'll be getting very cheap used books or free library books instead of discounted new ebooks. Meanwhile they'll get - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! You'd think in this economy the publishers would be happy to get sales any way they can instead of driving us back to cheaper alternatives. 

The only thing I'm sad about is that this also means that the authors aren't going to get any royalties from my purchases.


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## webhill (Feb 12, 2009)

meglet said:


> Ooh, I spoke too soon! Looks like the Kathy Reichs books I was thinking about are marked this way. My favorite is pricing for "206 Bones" at $7.99 for paperback and $9.99 for the Kindle version, although that's probably because the paperback isn't officially released yet.


Got me curious. I bought 206 Bones in September 2009 for $9.99 in Kindle format. It is now priced $12.99 in Kindle format, $10.79 for the paperback.


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## AppleBlossom (Jul 9, 2009)

worktolive said:


> Oh, but wait, the publishers didn't get a dime of that money because the books were all bought from a used book store at $0.50 - $1.00 each.


Unfortunately, that is what I'm starting to do more and more. It really sucks because my bookshelf is now going to start filling up again.



> The only thing I'm sad about is that this also means that the authors aren't going to get any royalties from my purchases.


I have this concern, too. The authors I read are by no means major and I believe they should profit from me enjoying their books.


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## loca (Jan 3, 2010)

AppleBlossom said:


> Unfortunately, that is what I'm starting to do more and more. It really sucks because my bookshelf is now going to start filling up again.
> 
> I have this concern, too. The authors I read are by no means major and I believe they should profit from me enjoying their books.


They should be main beneficiaries, absolutely and I don't like the way this is going.


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

AppleBlossom said:


> How do authors fit into this whole thing? Doesn't a boycott hurt them? I have (had) a few books on my wishlist that were affected by the price increases, and I just won't pay the higher price. But, at the same time, I sympathize with the author who is not one of the big named ones.
> 
> I'm a romance reader and some of the authors I like publish on both Harlequin and HarperCollins. While the Harlequin prices remain the same (for right now), the HC ones went through the roof.
> 
> To be honest, with all of this mess, Half Price Books is growing more and more my store of choice...


From a published author:
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/04/publishers-ebooks-epic-fail.html


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