# How to safely disentangle from absuive member of author society



## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

Please, don't lock this thread. I need advice and I don't know where to go.

I'm sorry. I didn't believe. I've witnessed now. I'm in a boxed set. I'm so afraid of my career being damaged by people hating me or not trustinng me because now my name will be associated with her. 

I'm having a panic attack and I don't know where else to go. 

There's no way out. She'll rip me to shreds. I don't care about the money I've invested. I just want to get out. I'm so scared.


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## Morgan Worth (May 6, 2017)

All I have to offer is a virtual hug.   I'm so sorry for you and anyone else in this position. I hope our experienced members can reach out to you with some help and advice.


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## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

Morgan Worth said:


> All I have to offer is a virtual hug.  I'm so sorry for you and anyone else in this position. I hope our experienced members can reach out to you with some help and advice.


Thank you, I appreciate the support.



Melinda W. Burt said:


> Say your're pulling out for medical reasons, then write under a pen until things blow over. Unfortunately, you may have limited options.
> 
> Not knowing more about your situation, I can't be more helpful.


I'm afraid to say too much without people finding out who I am. But I've only just built myself up. If I change my name now, I'll lose all my fans and financial stability.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Folks, you probably know what I'm going to say: posts in this thread will need to focus tightly on giving the OP advice and support.


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## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

Becca Mills said:


> Folks, you probably know what I'm going to say: posts in this thread will need to focus tightly on giving the OP advice and support.


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I really appreciate you letting me have this thread.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Could you say you're suffering from writer's block and are unable to finish the story that you were going to use?


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## Rose Andrews (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and others. I know this is going to sound crazy, but can you pull out anyway? Isn't your dignity more important? Since she's under fire, perhaps she'll be less inclined to abuse you. Maybe she won't. It's hard to say what I'd do in your position, which is a tough one, but can you give her a professional excuse to pull out? Say this arrangement isn't working for you and don't try to get your money back. If she backlashes, write what she says down/take screenshots/block her on social media, etc? Honestly...starting a new pen name isn't a bad idea either but I totally understand it would mean a loss of what you've built. I'm so, so sorry.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2017)

Speaking from experience... you have 2 options:

1. Put your head down, do *exactly* what you are told, when you are told and ride it out until contracts expire.
or
2: Walk away (just say real life commitments mean you can't continue with the sets) and say goodbye to the money. You will still need to keep your head down and don't mention her name anywhere or her followers will attack you and your books. This is what I did. Be aware it will isolate you from friends (if any are still involved in the sets or with this person) and you will have to watch what you post anywhere for months in case you inadvertently offend the person and an attack is launched


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Just say due to personal reasons you can't meet your obligations and have to pull out of all of the sets. If you're willing to forgo the money, just say that and then keep your head down and go about your business. (Keeping one eye open, of course, and take screenshots if nec). Don't get into a long explanation or back and forth. Just tell her, make it known that you are pulling out, and don't engage.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm sorry you're going through this. I just want to remind you that the majority of people in this community are both supportive and forgiving. You'll find a lot more people have your back than you thought.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Rosie A. said:


> I'm so sorry this is happening to you and others. I know this is going to sound crazy, but can you pull out anyway? Isn't your dignity more important? Since she's under fire, perhaps she'll be less inclined to abuse you. Maybe she won't. It's hard to say what I'd do in your position, which is a tough one, but can you give her a professional excuse to pull out? Say this arrangement isn't working for you and don't try to get your money back. If she backlashes, write what she says down/take screenshots/block her on social media, etc? Honestly...starting a new pen name isn't a bad idea either but I totally understand it would mean a loss of what you've built. I'm so, so sorry.


I was thinking along a similar line, actually. Just pull out and hope for the best. After everything that's gone on, this would probably not be the best time for her to retaliate. And even if she does, I suspect there will be a lot more people now who will give you the benefit of the doubt.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Virtual hugs. 

Not knowing any details, all I can say is that as a reader, I rarely know the personal interactions between authors. If I read my favorite author in a compilation and don't like the accompanying works (which has happened), I don't take it out on my favorite author. I can't imagine your loyal fans would turn on you. 

I know it sucks right now to be involved in this emotional tangle, but hang in there and have faith that your readers will stand by you. Your friends will stand by you. You are not alone. Eventually this will blow over and become a distant, bad memory.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Like the others said. If you can financially lose the money, walk away. Say you can't meet the commitment and walk away. Take screenshots of everything, but walk away. Don't give a million reasons - they won't matter. Just cut the cord.

If you can't lose that money, ride it out. Know, however, that you will probably feel dirty about the entire process and probably will feel dirty and guilty about the money that you may or may not make. (making money is never guaranteed). But I also know that cutting ties isn't easy for a lot people, especially when we're talking a lot of money.  (And a lot is relative, folks - for some among us, $100 is the difference between housing and homelessness, so let's not add arbitrary levels here).

If it helps, others have stood up. They have helped burn down the path for your escape.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Do keep good records of all interactions, including screen shots and whatever other evidence. This will help you feel in more control of the situation and will provide you with documentation in case there are any inquiries, false allegations, etc. You might have to provide vendors with a good reason to remove hatchet job reviews, for example.


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## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Could you say you're suffering from writer's block and are unable to finish the story that you were going to use?


She's already said that if we can't write it, she'll find a cowriter to bring in. :/



Rosie A. said:


> I'm so sorry this is happening to you and others. I know this is going to sound crazy, but can you pull out anyway? Isn't your dignity more important? Since she's under fire, perhaps she'll be less inclined to abuse you. Maybe she won't. It's hard to say what I'd do in your position, which is a tough one, but can you give her a professional excuse to pull out? Say this arrangement isn't working for you and don't try to get your money back. If she backlashes, write what she says down/take screenshots/block her on social media, etc? Honestly...starting a new pen name isn't a bad idea either but I totally understand it would mean a loss of what you've built. I'm so, so sorry.


I'm full time, and the only income in my house...so no, I can't just set myself on fire right now. I'm trying to find an excuse that's least likely to result in backlash. 


Tilly said:


> Speaking from experience... you have 2 options:
> 
> 1. Put your head down, do *exactly* what you are told, when you are told and ride it out until contracts expire.
> or
> 2: Walk away (just say real life commitments mean you can't continue with the sets) and say goodbye to the money. You will still need to keep your head down and don't mention her name anywhere or her followers will attack you and your books. This is what I did. Be aware it will isolate you from friends (if any are still involved in the sets or with this person) and you will have to watch what you post anywhere for months in case you inadvertently offend the person and an attack is launched


Number 2 is what I'm going to try to do, I think. It's just so scary. She allegedly has access to a lot of readers. What if she blasts me to them?


Monique said:


> Just say due to personal reasons you can't meet your obligations and have to pull out of all of the sets. If you're willing to forgo the money, just say that and then keep your head down and go about your business. (Keeping one eye open, of course, and take screenshots if nec). Don't get into a long explanation or back and forth. Just tell her, make it known that you are pulling out, and don't engage.


Do you think forgoing the money will make her more likely to let me go?


MonkishScribe said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this. I just want to remind you that the majority of people in this community are both supportive and forgiving. You'll find a lot more people have your back than you thought.


Thank you <3 I wish I could let my name be known, so that people would know I don't want this...but I'm just too scared.


C. Gold said:


> Virtual hugs.
> 
> Not knowing any details, all I can say is that as a reader, I rarely know the personal interactions between authors. If I read my favorite author in a compilation and don't like the accompanying works (which has happened), I don't take it out on my favorite author. I can't imagine your loyal fans would turn on you.
> 
> I know it sucks right now to be involved in this emotional tangle, but hang in there and have faith that your readers will stand by you. Your friends will stand by you. You are not alone. Eventually this will blow over and become a distant, bad memory.


Thanks for the hugs. That does help a lot to know, actually. Hopefully my readers will stick with me through all this.


Krista D. Ball said:


> Like the others said. If you can financially lose the money, walk away. Say you can't meet the commitment and walk away. Take screenshots of everything, but walk away. Don't give a million reasons - they won't matter. Just cut the cord.
> 
> If you can't lose that money, ride it out. Know, however, that you will probably feel dirty about the entire process and probably will feel dirty and guilty about the money that you may or may not make. (making money is never guaranteed). But I also know that cutting ties isn't easy for a lot people, especially when we're talking a lot of money. (And a lot is relative, folks - for some among us, $100 is the difference between housing and homelessness, so let's not add arbitrary levels here).
> 
> If it helps, others have stood up. They have helped burn down the path for your escape.


I can lose the money. I already wrote it off mentally after hearing from other authors that made like $20 from the sets. I just need to figure out what to tell her and when and how to mitigate the fall out. 


David VanDyke said:


> Do keep good records of all interactions, including screen shots and whatever other evidence. This will help you feel in more control of the situation and will provide you with documentation in case there are any inquiries, false allegations, etc. You might have to provide vendors with a good reason to remove hatchet job reviews, for example.


Oh god, I didn't even think about the reviews. I'm so screwed.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2017)

scaredofretribution said:


> Number 2 is what I'm going to try to do, I think. It's just so scary. She allegedly has access to a lot of readers. What if she blasts me to them?


That is a distinct possibility and only you know if you can weather it.

In hindsight - I have days where I wish I had shut up and ridden out the contract.

In your favour and as others have said, the situation may be different now as she has other things on her mind. I have heard of others saying they can't make their commitments and being let out of sets and I've even heard of one who got a refund.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## jcalloway (Jan 10, 2014)

David VanDyke said:


> Do keep good records of all interactions, including screen shots and whatever other evidence. This will help you feel in more control of the situation and will provide you with documentation in case there are any inquiries, false allegations, etc. You might have to provide vendors with a good reason to remove hatchet job reviews, for example.


Yes, yes, yes to the screenshots. Do it now. Right this second before she gets wind of this post and starts editing/deleting. Whatever incident has made you feel this way needs to be recorded, stat. If something does go down, you will have the receipts to show why you felt the need to back away.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I have no advice as I've never been in such a situation but it makes me sick to my stomach to think another author would stoop to such tactics, and even worse, that they somehow have convinced their followers to attack anyone who dares to stand up to them. I just want you to know that you have so many authors here who would be supportive in whatever way we can.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

A few things:

1. Readers DGAF about reviews. OK, some do, but the vast majority don't.
2. People boast about their influence all the time, but that's just it: they boast. Readers DGAF about what some author thinks. Or how they behave on Facebook. Especially when their thoughts are about another author.
2a. If an author spouts off on various people in groups or lists all the time, people will just think "what a drama queen" and put it on ignore. This sort of drama-stirring wears off the third or fourth time it happens.
2b. If you ever want to stir drama yourself, save it for the one time every three or four years or so that drama is really justified.
3. Give readers some credit. If they read a review or post about some book or author, they can detect BS a mile off.
4. Intimidation is the master of influence. The fear of what might happen is greater than the thing itself. Bullies rule through intimidation. Don't let yourself be intimidated and find that the bullies don't have a single foot to stand on. Not one.
5. The collective memory of the internet is 24 hours. If behaviour online bothers you, unplug the modem for two days. Then go back and block a few people if necessary.
6. If you speak up, some people will disagree. But if you speak up from a position that is ethically and morally justified, many more people will support you.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Folks, if you would like to share your RH experiences with scared, please do so via PM. Alternatively, you can provide a link to material you posted in the boxed set thread, which is here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,250491.0.html. We won't be going back over those experiences in this thread.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I'd put my head down, do everything I was supposed to do, and ride it out. Not everyone involved in this mess knew what they were getting into, so you aren't alone. Most people will understand what's happened, and you can get through this and move on with your career.

Take a deep breath, and write that book. Here's some more hugs for you...


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## Kate. (Oct 7, 2014)

scaredofretribution said:


> She's already said that if we can't write it, she'll find a cowriter to bring in. :/


Does that mean your name would be on the books even if you had no hand in writing them? If that's the case (and if you definitely don't want to be associated with her) you might need to be more upfront about terminating the contract. Keep it professional and brief.

I've never been deeply involved with the promoter so you'll have a better measure of the situation than I do. But in one of her Facebook posts she mentioned losing hundreds of authors over the recent situation. So far I haven't seen or heard evidence of retribution against them. (That doesn't mean it's not happening or won't happen in the future - but she's not automatically attacking everyone who leaves). If you're polite and professional, you might become just one of the crowd. You're likely to get away more easily if you give up the money.

No matter what happens... *hugs* It's a horrible situation and one you don't deserve.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I am going to be really honest here. If you haven't tested this pen name without the influence of the peer group you've been in, you don't really know how valuable it really is. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. The ways status and money was brought in was all very short-term goal oriented. 

The GREAT NEWS is even if you do have to rebuild, it's really never TOO late to do so. And, it will be 10x easier because you do have some experience now. Many people run multiple pen names. 

I guarantee this thread is already on people's radars, so if you can't stand up and say NO, you don't want a cowriter, you are pulling out ( I would not even say keep the money, I would just pull out. Because all of this situation is still very early and none of us have any idea what's going to happen down the road. If for some reason an opportunity comes for you to get your monies back I would hate for you to not be able to because you put in writing you forfeit it), then just ghost.

Yep. If you truly never say anything, never respond, never do anything, nothing can be held against you. Worst that can be said is you didn't respond to anything. It's a mental game, it's about pushing aside the anxiety and fear and realizing at the end of the day, like you have to say to the Goblin King in Lanyrinth "You hold no power over me."

Meanwhile, you're ghosting. Start a new name now. That way, you've bought yourself a few months of good money still coming in, you can have that other name online and up and running.

If you will have to face consequences for things you said or did to others in support of someone else, just take responsibility where and when it comes up. Apologize. Not if it offended or hurt, just straight up you made a mistake, you believed the wrong person. Some people will forgive and not forget, and that's okay, it's still better than nothing. Others will accept as you make steps to atone/be a good member in the author community.

Repeat after me, "It's just the Internet, it's just the Internet...."   That doesn't make it EASY, oh no, it still hurts like he llo, but it's the mantra that gets you through the tough situations. And you can always take that hurt and say it's a penance which helps you move right on past the feelings of guilt, too. More than one person has already had to eat humble crow. I would say NOW rather than LATER is the better time to break off, people will be less forgiving for those who waited until there was nothing left in it for them to do the right thing.

Just my opinion. You got this.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Another thought... Do you have a mailing list? Is it big enough to drive sales? If it is, maybe you could change your pen name, but come out to your readers that it's you writing as so-and-so.


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## Douglas Milewski (Jul 4, 2014)

As a professional, you can and do wind up in places that you don't want to be. First, choose to be a professional, no matter what else happens. If you want a reputation as someone who sees something through, even if it isn't fun, then this will do it. Fulfill your contract. That's what professionals do.

If she says anything that isn't true about you, that's grounds for a lawsuit. Keep copies. Take notes. Document. Hopefully she's listening and will think twice before smearing your name. Better for everyone to stay reasonable.

If your readers like your writing, then they won't care what that author says. In fact, they'll think it weird if she says, "And so and so is horrible, so don't buy her books." Have you ever seen anyone's newsletters or blog posts openly attacking another author? I don't know of anyone short sighted enough to do that.


If worst comes to worst, hire a ghostwriter.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

she-la-ti-da said:


> I'd put my head down, do everything I was supposed to do, and ride it out. Not everyone involved in this mess knew what they were getting into, so you aren't alone. Most people will understand what's happened, and you can get through this and move on with your career.






Douglas Milewski said:


> As a professional, you can and do wind up in places that you don't want to be. First, choose to be a professional, no matter what else happens. If you want a reputation as someone who sees something through, even if it isn't fun, then this will do it. Fulfill your contract. That's what professionals do.
> 
> If she says anything that isn't true about you, that's grounds for a lawsuit. Keep copies. Take notes. Document. Hopefully she's listening and will think twice before smearing your name. Better for everyone to stay reasonable.


Great advice right here. I'd echo taking lots of notes and screenshots, check in with the other authors, and fulfill your end of the contract you signed. As soon as your part of the deal is done, walk away. Worse comes to worse, use a new pen name.

Many of us have made poor decisions in our businesses. The key is to learn from those decisions and keep moving forward. Running a business from a fear standpoint won't get you anywhere. All the best that you can work this out.


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## Morgan Worth (May 6, 2017)

Douglas Milewski said:


> As a professional, you can and do wind up in places that you don't want to be. First, choose to be a professional, no matter what else happens. If you want a reputation as someone who sees something through, even if it isn't fun, then this will do it. Fulfill your contract. That's what professionals do.
> 
> If she says anything that isn't true about you, that's grounds for a lawsuit. Keep copies. Take notes. Document. Hopefully she's listening and will think twice before smearing your name. Better for everyone to stay reasonable.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about anyone in particular, but that actually does happen, especially in closed groups.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I would distance myself from her and her business endeavors as quickly as possible. Don't let this hang over your head for months to come.


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## EvanPickering (Mar 8, 2016)

I mean, I don't know how bad it could be, but if this is my career and it's important, I'd just finish out the contract (what do you have left?) and never work with the author again. Yeah, it's awful to have to stomach, but I'd rather not take chances with a firestorm.

Granted, I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, and I really have no context if backing out will harm your career at all or not. I just know if I was sure backing out would hurt my career/readers, I wouldn't do it. But who the hell knows, really.

Not sure any of this is good advice, but that's just what I'm thinking. How entangled are you with this process? Can you just tune her out and get the work done?


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## ........ (May 4, 2013)

The best thing in business is short and upfront: Hi, I'm withdrawing from X, regards author.

Then don't JADE.

Justify.

Argue.

Defend.

Explain.

You don't need to enter into any other correspondence. If you want your money back, ask for it. If not then don't. 

But leaving a boxset happens all the time. I'd also be quite surprised if past behavior was repeated given the current consequences of that past behavior.

Repeat after me: It's just business. It's just business.

Business goes up and down and sometimes it sucks. Sometimes you have to fire people or cut ties. I left an editor recently whose standard of work had been dropping considerably. It sucked but I had to do it. It's just business.

A year from now you won't even remember why you were so panicked about this. Ten years from now you'll barely remember it.

No one has the power to destroy your career.


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## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I am going to be really honest here. If you haven't tested this pen name without the influence of the peer group you've been in, you don't really know how valuable it really is. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. The ways status and money was brought in was all very short-term goal oriented.


Ok, I really don't appreciate the implication that I didn't earn my status. I used a book blast, that's it. It was a drop in the water. My set hasn't even gone live yet. She wasn't involved in building me at all. I don't know what you mean about being in the 'influence of the peer group.' My fans are responsive, I talk to them regularly, and they have talked a lot about looking forward to future series I'll be writing.

Also, "the ways status and money was brought in was all very short-term goal oriented." -- This sounds a lot like you're implying you know who I am.

You're really making me feel unsafe.

--

I do really appreciate the support and suggestions other people have given me. You've all helped me calm down a lot and formulate something of a plan.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

scaredofretribution said:


> Ok, I really don't appreciate the implication that I didn't earn my status. I used a book blast, that's it. It was a drop in the water. My set hasn't even gone live yet. She wasn't involved in building me at all. I don't know what you mean about being in the 'influence of the peer group.' My fans are responsive, I talk to them regularly, and they have talked a lot about looking forward to future series I'll be writing.
> 
> Also, "the ways status and money was brought in was all very short-term goal oriented." -- This sounds a lot like you're implying you know who I am.
> 
> ...


Your original post was longer and you claimed that your current pen name was too entangled with that one promoter you couldn't go out on your own. I was trying to reassure you that until you test the pen name without using that peer group's methods, you won't know how valuable it is to keep it or not. I even sent you a very supportive PM.

If now you are saying the pen name you have is all stuff you built without her help, then I fail to see what the difficulty is in walking away, you have all of your own systems and methods in place.

Good luck.


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## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> Your original post was longer and you claimed that your current pen name was too entangled with that one promoter you couldn't go out on your own. I was trying to reassure you that until you test the pen name without using that peer group's methods, you won't know how valuable it is to keep it or not. I even sent you a very supportive PM.
> 
> If now you are saying the pen name you have is all stuff you built without her help, then I fail to see what the difficulty is in walking away, you have all of your own systems and methods in place.
> 
> Good luck.


Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see your PM.

My emotions are all over the place, I'm sorry I assumed the worst. I'm shaking at my keyboard. Everytime my phone buzzes I panic.

It's not that I don't think my readers will follow me, it's that I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Well WE WILL all talk to you, and I said so in my PM. And she can't burn you in the author community, she just doesn't have that kind of power. No one does.  

Hang in there. Sometimes the BEST solution is just hitting the old power button on the computer and doing offline activities.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

scaredofretribution said:


> It's not that I don't think my readers will follow me, it's that I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


You can stop worrying. If that's the only thing keeping you in, consider that anyone who would stop speaking to you because of anything she says is someone you should be happy to cut loose anyway.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

scaredofretribution said:


> It's not that I don't think my readers will follow me, it's that I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


My sense is that the author community has been divided by this issue, with one group supporting the promoter in question and another group very much not. It's hard for me to see how any effort by the promoter to slander you would have much effect on the attitudes of authors in the latter group. Thus, the bright side is that what will put you on the outs with one group is likely to put you on the ins with the other.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


This quote is evidence of excessive gaslighting and bullying.

There are many other communities where authors are welcome and some even exist where people are blissfully unaware that anything of this kind goes on. Events may make you feel that everyone will hate you, but this is completely and utterly untrue. You'll only be hated if you, yourself, behave in a despicable manner and even then only if you do so knowingly and/or you never apologise. You might get an occasional "oh, I thought you were running with the other crowd" and all you have to say is: I'm done with them. No need to explain or justify. We get it.

We're still talking here, aren't we?


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## Clementine (Jun 12, 2015)

I think that you're allowing this one person too much power over you - power that she simply does not have. She may flap her wings and make loud sounds to try to convince people that she's in control and that you'd better fall in line, but that doesn't mean that you have to buy into it. 

In my opinion there are two things happening here:

1. You're giving her too much power and having a very strong emotional/fearful reaction (which is exactly what she's hoping for in order to maintain control).

2. You need to decide if it feels better to you to finish your work and fulfill the contract or to write a very brief letter stating that you are leaving. 

Before you can make a decision about whether you're going to stay or go, you need to find a way to shed some of your emotions wrapped up in this so that you don't make a fear-based choice (that's never a good idea). Several people have already explained that you won't lose the respect of every single author in the writing community. Listen to them. Really HEAR what they're saying. 
On the other side of the fence, as a reader I would be so grossed out by an author talking trash about a fellow author. I'm not in middle school anymore, so if I saw this happening I would roll my eyes and never read another word by the person acting that way. 

Don't let fear rule your life in this situation, and don't make a fear-based decision. You've got a lot of people supporting you here, and you are in control of your own life. Best wishes!


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Clementine said:


> On the other side of the fence, as a reader I would be so grossed out by an author talking trash about a fellow author. I'm *not in middle school anymore*, so if I saw this happening I would roll my eyes and never read another word by the person acting that way.


This is what I have been thinking while following this thread. Even though I can look at the various threads here, I am as a reader uninterested in what happens. Except maybe for seeing these "letters" now as even more worthless than my reading some of their bearers' books already demonstrated.

To the OP: find out whether you can opt out without legal/financial harm, and if yes, just cut the ties. If not, then fulfill the contract and count it as life experience.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

> I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


Stop giving this person the power to run your life! She isn't that big a deal in the writing community. Even here is not all there is of the writing community. Believe it or not, there are writers who've never heard of this person, or this forum, or even any of the goings on that occurred.

Take a deep breath. You signed a contract, either fulfill it, or walk away and accept the consequences. Some will attack you (or maybe not, if they have any sense about legal repercussions), some will support you, some won't even know anything is going on. Carry yourself with dignity and ethics, and you'll weather anything that comes.


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

I'm astounded...astounded that one person can legally cause so much fear in a person's life.


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## SunnySammy (May 8, 2017)

scaredofretribution said:


> It's not that I don't think my readers will follow me, it's that I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


See, this is why I try not to get too involved in fora and communities. All the drama is BS.

I'm really sorry this is having such an effect on you, OP. I hope you've found some reassurance here. My daughter suffered terribly with bullying and it's had a massive impact on her, so I really feel for you.

I hope you can see this person doesn't have the power you thought she did? I personally take people based on how they've behaved towards me and I'm sure most people are like me. Those who'll judge you on someone else's opinion aren't worth your trouble.

There are plenty of author communities you can mix with if you chose to. If you find you no longer fit with one move to another.

Do you have anxiety in general? You come across as quite anxious and seem to be making this bigger in your head than it really is.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

If you would like referrals to other author groups, please let us know and many of us will pm you info. 
_A man may scream the loudest all day long, but it doesn't make his message true. It just means he's screaming. _
And it's the readers who count. Readers are generally far removed from author gossip. Heck, readers didn't even care when James Patterson & his big 5 published author buddies took out a full page ad in the NYT to blast Amazon about ruining publishing. 
Being on good internet terms with a small subset of indie authors in a group like that is not going to make or break you. You're stronger than that, I promise you. Disengage, ignore, and don't give any ammunition should conflict occur.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

scaredofretribution said:


> It's not that I don't think my readers will follow me, it's that I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


I think this thread is proof that won't happen. This person has proven pretty divisive and has nowhere near the amount of clout within the community she boasts of. There are a few who will do whatever she says, but my guess is there are plenty who are pretty indifferent to her. The indie community is very large and most of us are far more interested in writing and selling books than we are in petty high school-esque drama. We're trying to run a business here, not staging a production of Mean Girls.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2017)

Talk to an attorney. Most legitimate contracts should have a "good faith" clause or similar verbiage that protects both parties in the event one or the other does not act in good faith. If the person who organized the box set is currently under investigation or being sued, you can often use these clauses to disentangle yourself from the contract. You entered the contract under the assumption that the organizer would follow the law. If the person did not, the contract may be void. But you need to talk to an attorney. And soon.

In situations like this, putting your head in the sand is not in the best interest of your business or your brand. This is business. 

And as others have said, bullies depend on their victims staying quiet. That is how they are able to maintain their power. When the victims stop being silent, the bully loses their power. And the more victims that speak up, the weaker and more impotent the bully becomes.


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## Stewart Matthews (Nov 21, 2014)

Back away SLOWLY. Do not make EYE CONTACT, as this will be taken as a challenge of her DOMINANCE, and she WILL physically attack you. If you DO make eye contact, the ALPHA is likely to go after your SOFTER PARTS. Lay on your stomach with your HANDS OVER the back of YOUR HEAD.

Many of us know how nuts <redacted person> is. Cut off contact. Don't worry about what her minions will or won't do. You aren't going to be shunned by the saner, more scrupulous half of the indie author community.


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

Writing is a business.

There's no need for anyone to be peering out of their darkened windows on alert for assassins... this whole situation has snowballed due to unprofessional activities and people treating their business like a high school clique.

Your readers matter.

*Readers matter*- not short term boosts that do not build careers...

The goal is to find readers and keep them.

Walking away from short-sighted promotional tactics and people who gang up on other authors is not going to end up with your tea being poisoned. If you don't care about the money already spent, just let her keep it and walk away.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## Dpock (Oct 31, 2016)

A regrettable situation and you have my sympathies.

Unless this person causing you problems has dozens of conflicts brewing at any given time, is it possible this thread will point back to you? I don't want to add to your anxiety, but I think it must be said (or maybe has been said and I missed it).

No one gets through life without making a few business deals that go south. Anyway, worst-case scenarios are seldom realized and picking up the pieces is easier than our fears predict it will be in the midsts of the storm.


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## Stewart Matthews (Nov 21, 2014)

Dpock said:


> A regrettable situation and you have my sympathies.
> 
> Unless this person causing you problems has dozens of conflicts brewing at any given time, is it possible this thread will point back to you? I don't want to add to your anxiety, but I think it must be said (or maybe has been said and I missed it).
> 
> No one gets through life without making a few business deals that go south. Anyway, worst-case scenarios are seldom realized and picking up the pieces is easier than our fears predict it will be in the midsts of the storm.


This person definitely has dozens of conflicts brewing at any given time. I'd guess OP can cut contact and walk away relatively unscathed.


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## scaredofretribution (Jun 27, 2017)

I just want to thank you all so much for reaching out. There are too many replies to quote! But you've all made me feel a lot safer now. 

Yes, I do suffer from general and social anxiety. It may be affecting things. But today I feel a lot more clear, like the world isn't being ripped away from me. I'm going to make this decision with a clear mind, whether to stay or go. 

If this thread comes back to haunt me, then so be it. I needed the support you all have given me. I'd prefer not to have my name attached to it, but if it comes down to it I'll stand tall. 

I don't feel so alone anymore.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

scaredofretribution said:


> I just want to thank you all so much for reaching out. There are too many replies to quote! But you've all made me feel a lot safer now.
> 
> Yes, I do suffer from general and social anxiety. It may be affecting things. But today I feel a lot more clear, like the world isn't being ripped away from me. I'm going to make this decision with a clear mind, whether to stay or go.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you are going through this. As someone who also deals with anxiety, my advice would be to get out as discreetly as possible. If things are going south now, you're only likely to feel more stressed and anxious if you stay. Once you are officially out, I bet it will be a relief. Good luck!


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2017)

After reading through all of this, I have come to the realization that this particularly enigmatic thread is more intriguing than John Titor himself. I _really_ want to know who you are now, dude (or dudette).


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm in a box set coming up and just told the organiser that I'm switching my pen name and want to use that one instead. This set is nothing remotely to do with RH, it's just a coincidence that the set comes out at the same as a series under my main name instead of my other pen name.  Anyway, I said I'd be submitting under a different name and there was no issue with that.

It could be a useful solution for you? Remain in the boxset but use a different name that is not associated with your career name? I can't see there would be any legal ramifications from that, it's not a breach to change your pen name. But it could help you get the distance you need from the set without any backlash?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

NANMANME said:


> After reading through all of this, I have come to the realization that this particularly enigmatic thread is more intriguing than John Titor himself. I _really_ want to know who you are now, dude (or dudette).


Why would you be so interesting in who the OP is? She's just one of many in her situation.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2017)

Monique said:


> Why would you be so interesting in who the OP is? She's just one of many in her situation.


It was a joke? I thought that that much was clear by how I wrote it. I couldn't care less as to who this person is. The situation's just fascinating to me.


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## Morgan Worth (May 6, 2017)

NANMANME said:


> It was a joke? I thought that that much was clear by how I wrote it. I couldn't care less as to who this person is. The situation's just fascinating to me.


In my opinion, this isn't something to joke about.


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## Cactus Lady (Jun 4, 2014)

NANMANME said:


> It was a joke? I thought that that much was clear by how I wrote it. I couldn't care less as to who this person is. The situation's just fascinating to me.


Referring you to this comment earlier in this thread: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,252749.msg3518868.html#msg3518868


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Folks, let's move on from NANMANME's comment, lest the thread get lost in the weeds. scaredofretribution, I'm very glad to hear you're feeling more upbeat and less alone today. 

Edited to add: I was serious about the _moving-on_ part. I've deleted several posts.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

To the OP, I am sorry that you are going through this. I have anxiety as well, and I have found that the best thing to do is stay as drama free as possible. Just don't engage with any drama queens / kings.

Depending on the stage of your set, you have two options:

1. Go ahead and do the set, put your head down, don't take part in any drama, and move on when it's finished.

2. Go ahead and pull out of the set, put your head down, don't take part in any drama, and move on to interacting with your readers and writing your next book.

There may be repercussions with either choice. There may not be.

- If you stay in the set, you may be associated with any of the fallout around the particular promoter if the set goes south for some reason. If you do everything above board _personally_, don't sweat it too much. Take screen caps of anything untoward you see, and use it as insurance in case you need it. You most likely will not need it.

- If you leave the set, you may experience drama depending on how you do it and what the response is. If you can let the money go, just say you're having personal issues and can't fulfil your end of the bargain, sorry, hope everything is great with the set, best of luck!

- If you leave the set, don't engage with anyone in the promoter's circle. Just leave. Don't say anything about the promoter or the set from now on. It's in the past.

With everything that's going on surrounding this promoter, I doubt one person pulling out for personal reasons will become a drama. If it does, remember that this is a very small group of people who follow this promoter and most readers are completely and blissfully unaware of any of this BS. They just buy books and read and then move on.

Tend to your author garden, water your mailing list, post nice things on your social media, and write your next book.

Good luck!


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## AkariaGale (Aug 28, 2016)

Chin up, OP. You'll get through this. Choose to stay in the set. Choose to leave the set. Just don't choose out of fear. 

It's important to remember people yapping on the internet (myself included) are a very small percentage of the population. Readers don't care about AuthorLand drama. A good third don't care about reviews anymore because of bots and other nonsense. Make sure your cover and blurb are on point. That's what hooks your readers. No one's going to stop being your friend or buying your books because some strangers on the internet said bad things. 

And Patty was right. The internet has the attention span of a gold fish. Start your July 4 weekend early and this will be over by the time you come back.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

scaredofretribution said:


> It's not that I don't think my readers will follow me, it's that I think she'll burn me in the author community and no one will ever talk to me again.


Her name is already mud in the author community. You're on the right side of this, as far as most of us can tell.


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## Starstruck (Nov 1, 2013)

David VanDyke said:


> Her name is already mud in the author community. You're on the right side of this, as far as most of us can tell.


I agree. There's nothing you have to fear. Seriously. Brush yourself off and move on. I guarantee that your readers won't even know what's going on. I usually don't google the authors I read, because the only thing I care about is whether they write a good book or not. Continue doing what you're doing and don't give her your precious time because that's time you're taking away from your own writing and your faithful readers. It will all be okay and I'm glad you're feeling better!

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

To the OP, some good advice has already been shared here. Not much I can add to it, other than to say there is NOBODY so influential in the indie community, and I mean nobody, that they can utterly isolate you from people who are willing to hear your side of the story and be supportive.  There are no real boogeymen here, just a few folks wearing scary masks and trying to convince you otherwise. 

Do what you need to for your business. If you have legal obligations, fulfill them. If there are outs, take them.  Keep notes, screenshots, and take the high road.  You'll get through this and there are plenty of shoulders here to lean on along the way.


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## 13893 (Apr 29, 2010)

There's an Emerson quote: 

"What you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying."

A corollary I'd suggest: What you are will speak so loudly, no one will hear what she is saying.

Someone lied about me and ruined a friendship in the author community a couple of years ago, and there was nothing I could do about it but pull back and live my life. It hurt a lot - I guess I'm still not over it! But your fans and friends will believe who you are to them far more than they'll believe what she says about you. Doesn't mean it will be easy, but time does go by, and time is on your side. 

I'm sorry this happened to you. I'd say get out as quickly as you can as much as you can, and write the next book/series.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

scaredofretribution said:


> Ok, I really don't appreciate the implication that I didn't earn my status. I used a book blast, that's it. It was a drop in the water. My set hasn't even gone live yet. She wasn't involved in building me at all. I don't know what you mean about being in the 'influence of the peer group.' My fans are responsive, I talk to them regularly, and they have talked a lot about looking forward to future series I'll be writing.
> 
> Also, "the ways status and money was brought in was all very short-term goal oriented." -- This sounds a lot like you're implying you know who I am.
> 
> ...


You feel unsafe because someone on the internet might know who you are? Um, what's that say about those of us who don't hide behind the veil of anonymity? People not only know who I am, but it's not really all that hard to figure out where I live.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> You feel unsafe because someone on the internet might know who you are? Um, what's that say about those of us who don't hide behind the veil of anonymity? People not only know who I am, but it's not really all that hard to figure out where I live.


I think what is says is that you're not the same person and not in the same situation.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

David VanDyke said:


> Her name is already mud in the author community. You're on the right side of this, as far as most of us can tell.


Also, scared, keep in mind that there isn't one 'author community'. Kboards has an author community, Absolute Write has an author community, various Facebook groups have various author communities, the Amazon Kindle forums have an author community, etc. Pretty much every writer forum has its own community and 'feel'. There is some crossover in membership and participation from group to group, but I don't think anyone can say there's one 'author community' above any other. Poisoning the well at one doesn't necessarily cross over to another.

So I think your fears of being blackballed in the 'author community' are unfounded. There might be a clique that you get ostracized from, but there are a ton of other author communities to be involved with. Find your tribe.


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## Susan Stec (Aug 9, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> You feel unsafe because someone on the internet might know who you are? Um, what's that say about those of us who don't hide behind the veil of anonymity? People not only know who I am, but it's not really all that hard to figure out where I live.


I get it. There are many like this writer. We all have the right to choose. She's asking for help.

I am out, I am working hard to stop her if it's who we all think it is), and I don't care who knows. If you want to talk privately, whoever you are, PM me. I will do everything I can to help you find a way out, but I can tell you this, she has no teeth. By that I mean, legally she can do nothing because an investgstion will blow her out of the water (if it is the she I am referring to).

My suggestion? Take tons of screen shots to back you. If she in any way links herself to these new companies, boxsets, promotions that go against TOS, shoot them, PM me and I'll give you an amazon agent to sent it to.

All this, if it is who we all think it is.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## Susan Stec (Aug 9, 2014)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Do what you need to for your business. If you have legal obligations, fulfill them. If there are outs, take them. Keep notes, screenshots, and take the high road. You'll get through this and there are plenty of shoulders here to lean on along the way.


Great advice. There is a group of authors working to stop this person, and it's growing daily. You are a good example. And unless you have been a victim, it's hard to UNDERSTAND the ramifications of her revenge. YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## Susan Stec (Aug 9, 2014)

........ said:


> The best thing in business is short and upfront: Hi, I'm withdrawing from X, regards author.
> 
> Then don't JADE.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I did. Then when it didn't work, I fought back, hard. She slammed me. But the diffrence between you and me, scared, is I don't care. I will bring my business back up. I've gained tons of support, found out who my real friends were, and most of all, learned there is a life after "her" and it's a hell of a lot better without her. That's a fact.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Nic said:


> To the OP: find out whether you can opt out without legal/financial harm, and if yes, just cut the ties. If not, then fulfill the contract and count it as life experience.


What Nic Foyles said.
And remember, all the normal people here are supporting you. You'll just have to settle for that.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Folks, it seems worth quoting what the owner of KBoards said in another recent thread connected to this whole situation: "We have already hosted one lengthy and very difficult thread about RH and we feel that thread was enough." Insisting on using new threads to report again on experiences with RH and/or to lodge new accusations is a quick way to make KB not a place where the topic can be broached at all. That would be unfortunate, as this forum is a good place to make connections and spread news. So, please abide by the lines we've drawn, thereby keeping threads like this one possible.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2017)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> You feel unsafe because someone on the internet might know who you are? Um, what's that say about those of us who don't hide behind the veil of anonymity? People not only know who I am, but it's not really all that hard to figure out where I live.


No offense, Wayne, but you are also a white male. While I also don't use a pen name, I can assure you there have been times where I felt very unsafe. Not to change the subject, but really men, particularly white men, really don't have to deal with the threats of actual violence that women do. And while in this case the bully is a female (assuming this is who we all think it is), that doesn't mitigate the fact that women are far more likely to be attacked online than men. I've had people CALL MY HOUSE and threaten me...over book reviews. I've had my Amazon pages vandalizes because of things I have said online. Someone may talk smack at you online, but statistically you don't have a real thing to worry about. Women, on the other hand, DO HAVE REAL THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT. We get stalked in the real world for things that happen online. We get harassed at work for things that happen online. I don't know if you realize how dismissive of the OP's concerns this sounded.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> No offense, Wayne, but you are also a white male. While I also don't use a pen name, I can assure you there have been times where I felt very unsafe. Not to change the subject, but really men, particularly white men, really don't have to deal with the threats of actual violence that women do.


According to Pew, men are more likely to be threatened with physical violence online than women...










But suppose the numbers were switched. Even then, it would be wrong to dismiss a dissenting viewpoint just because it comes from a white male. Wayne has proven over and over that he's intelligent and thoughtful.

Dismissing his perspective would be as inappropriate as my saying "_Nothing to see here because women tend to make mountains out of molehills_."


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2017)

Anarchist said:


> According to Pew, men are more likely to be threatened with physical violence online than women...


"Threatened"online is not the same thing as being stalked in the real world. The threats against women, as the Pew study shows, are more likely to slip into the real world and not just be online trash talking (which is what most men deal with, online trash talking. And when men online do have something happen in the real world, it is normally someone they know (an ex, for example). Whereas women are far more likely to have total strangers engage in actual physical actions due to online activities.


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## Steve Voelker (Feb 27, 2014)

Anarchist said:


> Dismissing his perspective would be as inappropriate as my saying "_Nothing to see here because women tend to make mountains out of molehills_."


I don't think she dismissed Wayne's perspective. She merely said it wasn't relevant or helpful to the OP.

And she was 100% correct.

If someone says they feel threatened, the correct response is to offer sympathy and solutions, NOT to tell them they are wrong, NOT to chime in with a pointless comment about how you wouldn't feel that way, and NOT to toss out some BS statistics to try to prove that their feelings are invalid.

This conversation is not about you, or me, or Wayne. It is about the OP, who has valid feelings and came here looking for help.

I'd kindly suggest that anyone who isn't interested in helping find one of the MANY other threads on here to comment on.

To the OP:

I'm sorry you had to go through something like this. I've been in similar situations, and it sucks on so many levels.
For me, it was really tough to be productive while the nonsense was going on. 
My advice would be to get through it without making any waves, then put some time and distance between you and the offending party. 
This is a HUGE deal to you right now, but to the other person involved, who has this type of interaction constantly, it is just another day at the office. 
It will stick with you, because you are a decent person who doesn't cause trouble.
But they won't even remember you in few months, because this is 100% normal for them!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Not to change the subject, but really men, particularly white men, really don't have to deal with the threats of actual violence that women do.


Just personal (and friend) experience, but I firmly believe this. I've been online for over 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt unsafe or threatened, and I'm not exactly someone who stays away from controversial subjects.

Conversely, I have (female) friends for whom harassment from strangers seems to be a near weekly occurrence, and that's ignoring if they pick up a creeper (way too common) who won't take the hint and go away.


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## Steve Voelker (Feb 27, 2014)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Just personal (and friend) experience, but I firmly believe this. I've been online for over 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt unsafe or threatened, and I'm not exactly someone who stays away from controversial subjects.
> 
> Conversely, I have (female) friends for whom harassment from strangers seems to be a near weekly occurrence, and that's ignoring if they pick up a creeper (way too common) who won't take the hint and go away.


Same.

Which was my problem with the statistics cited above. It might be more likely for men to BE threatened, but I doubt it is more likely for them to actually FEEL threatened.

I know I have never once actually felt physically unsafe because of something said online. But I also know that many people do. And that is kind of the point here. When someone says they feel unsafe, that should be good enough.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Anarchist said:


> According to Pew, men are more likely to be threatened with physical violence online than women...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those levels between men and women are super close, except of course under sexually harassed (which probably includes threat of rape) and actual stalking, which women are the victims of much more than men. I think the massive differences there more than make up for the very slim differences going the other way. You're kind of missing the thrust that shows the most severe forms of harassment affect women far more, including sustained harassment. The differences in most of those show women at no more than 3 points lower than men but up to 19 points higher in some.

That women have it worse is the headline, so I'm not sure how you can't spin that to "women are less likely to be threatened than men." The point was that he, as a man, probably does feel relatively safe. Women often don't, we learn early on not to feel that way, and for good reason. It wasn't a dismissal, just an explanation of why his experience isn't universal.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Things seem to have gone in a different direction, here. I notice that the OP hasn't been back to the thread in more than 24 hours, so I'm going to go ahead and lock it.

scared, if you return and want to discuss, please drop me a PM.


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