# Why I went all-in to KU



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Okay, this is apostasy for me. Anybody who has read my posts know that I was (was) the biggest advocate for being wide. And I've done well wide. I made $10,000 in one month on Apple. I made five figures for many months in a row, and only 40% of that was Amazon. Yet I made the decision for my business to go all-in. Might I regret that decision? Maybe. Maybe I will pull out in 90 days, my tail tucked between my legs. I hope not.

Anyhow, here are my reasons for doing this. 

1) The collapse of Nook and Scribd. Nook used to do very well for me. I could count on between $1500-$4000 a month there before. But lately it's been scary low. I made $700 there last month, and, this month, I made around $70 there in three days. It might have gone back up organically, but, after reading similar experiences from others here on the board, I can't help but think that Nook might finally be on its last legs. As for Scribd - I could count on around $300 there a month. Not anymore, of course. 

2) No ads work for other retailers, except for BB. That's the biggest thing. I was fortunate enough to get one BB ad that had an enormous tail last summer. But BB has turned down every single one of my books except for Beautiful Illusions. I ran Beautiful Illusions last February again, and the results were underwhelming compared to last time and disappointing. And here's the thing - you cannot depend upon BB picking you up. If your business model is reliant upon something like running regular BB ads to keep you high in the ranks of the other stores, then that's not a good business model. I wish that other ads worked for all retailers, but they just don't. And I know this because I've run them all. 

3) I want more control over my own destiny. The reason why I did so well on other retailers was because of last year's BB ad, combined with fairly regular internal promotions over at Apple. But getting promotions at Apple is like getting a BB ad - you have to sit around and wish and hope that they're going to pick you up. Not a good business plan. With KU, I know that I can run ads and that I'll get a pretty reasonable return on all of them. I like that feeling. 

4) KU removes barriers to your books. I've stated this in another thread, but buying books gets expensive for voracious readers. I would imagine that would be a barrier to a lot of people who might like to read all my books, but can't afford to. I've gotten reviews like that - readers pick up the free books and then say that they can't afford to go on. I've seen all these posts about paying the price of a cup of coffee, but if you're a romance reader reading hundreds of books a month, paying $4.99 for each adds up big-time. 

5) KU decimated the value of my permafrees. No doubt about it, the sell-through was cut in half when KU came along. I managed to do well in spite of KU for awhile, just because I moved a lot of permafrees. But I haven't had a BB ad for awhile, neither have I had a "hit," so things were going south pretty quickly. 

6) I'd like to get more "true fans." This goes back to the removing barriers to reading my books. I'm giving my readers the opportunity to plow through every one of my books virtually free, as opposed to saying "you can read all my books for $50." The hope is I can get more readers to do just that, and hopefully I can secure them as my loyal readers who will buy anything I write in the future. 

7) I'm keeping my permafrees out. I know, I know, I advised NEVER to do that. But I put a note at the end of all my free books on the other retailers, asking them to contact me, and I'll send them the rest of my books. I've already had some fans writing me for the books, and I've sent out the omnibuses. That's not a bad strategy, as it gives me a chance to ask if they'd like to be on my mailing list, and giving free books is a good way to get loyal fans. But the main reason why I'm keeping my permafrees out is the control thing again. I want to be able to run regular free ads, as opposed to running these ads during the five day window I would get under KU. This might be a mistake, but it's my way of hedging my bets. 

Will I go wide again? I have no idea. Maybe this whole experiment is going to be a bust. I'd really like to see other retailers instituting the subscription model, and I'd really like to see other retailers making it to where ads actually move the needle. If wishes were horses...

The other thing that might make me go wide again after 90 days is Facebook ads. I'm following Mark Dawson's method that has worked so well for so many people, and I'm going to try out the method on KU while I'm in there. If it's successful, then it's something that I can use for other retailers as well. That would make me feel that I have control again over my sales and destiny, and that might make me go wide again. I'll still have my reviews from before, as I only deactivated the books, not deleted them, so... again, never say never. 

The biggest thing I want to impart, though, is this - you have to pivot. When it's time to pivot, it's time to pivot. I agonized over this decision, believe me. It's a big risk. But sometimes you have to take risks to shake things up.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Really interesting reading. Good luck, Annie! Hope you keep us updated with how it's working for you.


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## noob (Dec 11, 2014)

thanks for another super-helpful post. best of luck all in!


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Seems like a good decision given your reasoning.  But I will say, some of your reasons are exactly what frightens me about Amazon and KU.

The other competitors are not doing a good enough job, and its making it more and more difficult to justify being wide.  And that worries me, because competition is just about the only thing keeping Amazon honest, imo.

The next piece is that as much as sales are unstable elsewhere, payment and incentives are unstable at Amazon.  They change the game radically on a consistent basis.  So as much as you want that consistency that other retailers don't give, Amazon is also inconsistent in other ways...some, just as troubling.

And lastly, after doing quite well in KU, I have to caution against the idea that you're building a rabid fan base that will follow you anywhere.  In my experience, the KU subscribers are bargain hunters.  When I pulled my books, I didn't see a lot of subscribers coming over to the paid sales side.  I continued with the same level of paid sales, perhaps with a minuscule boost.  

So that's anecdotal, but I feel that KU readers are their own thing, kind of like how a lot of free readers are their own discrete thing.  There may be some transfer, but perhaps not as amazing as you or I might hope.

Edit: I will add that the VISIBILITY KU provides can absolutely boost paid sales.  So although the KU subscribers may not move over to buying books, they do help by raising visibility and then you get more readers on the paid side...


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## Sara C (Apr 30, 2014)

I'll be interested to see how this goes for you. Please keep us posted!


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Good luck.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I did the same thing two days ago, Annie, for many of the same reasons. Well stated. I tried it out with a short older series in late June, and it helped so much, I put a new release into it on July 2. That worked too, so I pushed the button on everything. 

I know it's working now. Much better than wide was working. I'll save up though for the time when I have to brave the waters again. I should note that I definitely have an Amazon/Nook audience. 

Best of luck with your books.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

It's a bold move. I'm sad to see it, but understand.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

yes this is an interesting post. some interesting points and i am a romance reader and writer. I can read a couple full length novels a week if i'm not writing. That is nothing compared to some of the comments i have seen from voracious readers who buy a book (full length) and review it in detail 24 hours later.  

If there's a long series, it can get pricey for some readers if there are many installments to buy. 

Most people i know have kindles and buy different lengths and genres. 

I like your reason number 6. Makes sense since that is how these authors are selling so well, they have true fans buying their new book pretty much immediately, (some on the first day and they are reviewing them quickly too). 

I hope you update this thread, i want to see how things go for you. Good luck.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Wrote a similar post earlier on considering exactly what you did. Good luck!


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## Indiecognito (May 19, 2014)

Thanks, Annie. Great post. 

Going wide is scary, with Nook's issues and the rest of it. Sounds like you'll do great.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

I'll admit I strongly considered doing the same thing. If it weren't for Apple I definitely would.


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## doolittle03 (Feb 13, 2015)

You're posts are always detailed and very helpful. Thank you! 

The weird thing is I woke up on June 1st and said "I'm putting everything in Select." I didn't really think it through except I wasn't selling elsewhere so I didn't care if I only made a $1.30/borrow. And a couple of other things: KDP and Createspace are very responsive and I liked that. And I believe subscription-based reading (once the kinks are worked out) will become a genre author's bread-and-butter income.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

May fortune favor the bold!

Your decision looks like pretty sound business reasoning to me, but as risk averse as I am, I wonder why you didn't wait just over a month to see how things really shake out with regards to payment.  Maybe the payment amount wasn't a huge consideration, or is what prompted you to do it?


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the well wishes, everyone! It's scary, believe me, but not as scary as helplessly watching my books sink on all the retailers, hoping for some kind of panacea to bring them out of the ditch. And, Shelly, I know what you're saying. I do. But I did the calculations assuming .0057 a page, and I think (I think!) I can slowly bring my income back to a reasonable amount even at that low of a payout. If it's lower than that, well...heck, I don't know. We're all just throwing spaghetti against the wall, hoping it sticks, right? 

I'm a pretty impulsive person, but this particular decision was pretty well thought out for me. Again, though, we'll see, and I'll definitely keep everyone posted!


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## NoahPorter (Sep 15, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> I want more control over my own destiny.


This is the antithesis of going all in with KU. You're putting all your eggs in one impulsive, rash, schizophrenic basket, and giving up all control.

Still, good luck.


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## R. M. Webb (Jul 24, 2014)

it's very strange. Clearly, as I mentioned in Rick Gualtieri's thread on the same topic, I feel very much the same as Annie. As of today, I'm back in KU and feeling very comfortable about it when I think of the decision in terms of me and my business. In fact, Annie managed to articulate very well a lot of the reasons I had for coming back to Amazon. You did a better job than I did when I was trying to explain my reasoning to Mr. Wonderful.

But there are some parts to gorvnice's post that concern me when I think about my decision in terms of the broader scope of things and how my move is a drop in a bucket that may or may not effect the industry as a whole. (A very small drop. If my handful of sales were all that kept B&N afloat, then the writing was already on the wall. )

Best of luck to you, Annie. I've always appreciated your well thought out and insightful posts and I'm glad to see you posting here again.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Yay, more stuff going into KU. More stuff for me to read. I just joined again as a subscriber so unlike Monique, I am happy. 

And by the way to the person upthread saying that KU are a separate entity as readers, I don't think that is true at all. Especially not with romance readers. We have always grabbed our books many different ways. Library, book store, friends. Now we also have KU and other services, we still buy books, we still go to the library too. That is because of the variety of stuff we read and well, we just like buying books.  

But since we read a lot, we also get helped with something like KU. 

But one thing I do notice is that I tend to read the borrowed books before I read the purchased. I'll read all of them eventually, but just like the library, borrowed stuff just gets put on the top of the pile. And if there is an author I like in KU, I am bound to read everything I find. Not all at once as I don't like to get burned out on any one author, but working the way through a catalog. 

I also have created wishlists on amazon for KU books. Its the easiest way to find the reads as the wishlists are accessable on my Voyage. I also have a large wishlist for stuff that I want to read, but was not in KU. I have noticed in the last week that a handful are trickling into the program. 

In November I cancelled the service for opposite reasons, lots of books were pulled out of it and it showed in my wishlist. 

I really hope this new payment is working out well for those in it. It helps readers like me too. It means a healthy balanced catalog for everyone. 

KU is also the reason that I am using also bought section for the first time looking for books. That is because the sorting of the KU books is not the best and its often the best way to find other stuff one likes. I never really looked at that before much for the regular store. 

Good luck Annie and Rosalind. And let august 15th (thereabouts) be a good day for you all.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Good read. Interesting points. I'm not currently in a position where I want to put everything in KU, but it's something I'll consider down the line.

Best of luck.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Good luck, Annie! And thanks for sharing. I always enjoy reading your posts.


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

Best of luck, Annie. I'll be following you to see how it goes. But, honestly, I wish you much success.


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## barbie888 (Aug 26, 2013)

Ditto. It's the visibility for me. Just finished a BB ad so now I'm pulling out of wide and going KU. Your post states everything I was thinking. Besides, it's only 3 months. My biggest fear is my readers on other platforms. But...this is a business.


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## David J Perry (Oct 30, 2011)

Really interested to hear your take on the state of the market.  Who better to hear it from?  Very useful and informative - thanks v much.


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## Mark Dawson (Mar 24, 2012)

anniejocoby said:


> The other thing that might make me go wide again after 90 days is Facebook ads. I'm following Mark Dawson's method that has worked so well for so many people, and I'm going to try out the method on KU while I'm in there. If it's successful, then it's something that I can use for other retailers as well. That would make me feel that I have control again over my sales and destiny, and that might make me go wide again. I'll still have my reviews from before, as I only deactivated the books, not deleted them, so... again, never say never.


Good luck, Annie. I started experimenting with FB ads around November last year, when I was in KU. I had received the All Star bonus the first few months and wanted to try and send more traffic to the free books by targeting KU subscribers. It worked, to a point, but the sales were costing a little more than the cost of the ads. The reason was maths - if I'm getting a payment of, say, 1.50 for each KU borrow, and the cost of a click to Amazon is 20c, I need to convert at around 13% to break even and that's quite aggressive (although not impossible).

But I saw enough to start experimenting with list growth and then sales of higher priced items, and that is still working like gangbusters.

I do think there is scope for sending readers to KU books via ads - it'll be interesting to see how expensive those clicks are (whether other authors are competing for them). And, of course, the payouts are going to be critical in determining whether the equation works.

Good luck. I'm very interested in how you get on.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Mark Dawson said:


> Good luck, Annie. I started experimenting with FB ads around November last year, when I was in KU. I had received the All Star bonus the first few months and wanted to try and send more traffic to the free books by targeting KU subscribers. It worked, to a point, but the sales were costing a little more than the cost of the ads. The reason was maths - if I'm getting a payment of, say, 1.50 for each KU borrow, and the cost of a click to Amazon is 20c, I need to convert at around 13% to break even and that's quite aggressive (although not impossible).
> 
> But I saw enough to start experimenting with list growth and then sales of higher priced items, and that is still working like gangbusters.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark! I've signed up for your course and I've slowly been listening to each segment. It's very helpful! It took me a long time to figure out how to create a landing page and put it on Facebook, because I'm a dummy when it comes to that. As soon as I finish my WIP, I'm going to do some intensive experimenting and studying your method. I've heard AMAZING things about it, so I'm excited!!!!


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2015)

Good luck! I'm also trying to make sense of this KU mess. I just chucked 30 pages of my would be romance novel. I can only write mystery shorts it seems. Back to the drawing board.


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## Bob Stewart (Mar 19, 2014)

Annie,

Great post. Your reasoning is obviously sound. 

I had an optional question for those on my mailing list for a while, "where do you prefer to buy books?" It's a small list and only 5-10% of people answered it, but I was surprised how many people listed multiple vendors. Usually Amazon and B&N, Apple, or Google.

The only people you'll exclude entirely are owners of Nook & Kobo ereaders, both probably falling in numbers as people move to tablets or Kindle.


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

anniejocoby said:


> 2) No ads work for other retailers, except for BB. That's the biggest thing. I was fortunate enough to get one BB ad that had an enormous tail last summer. But BB has turned down every single one of my books except for Beautiful Illusions.


Why did they turn down the other books, because of genre or content?


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Julianna said:


> Why did they turn down the other books, because of genre or content?


Bookbub can turn down books for any of a number of reasons - although the most common is they have no shortage to choose from. Plenty of folks who ran successful BB ads in the past are now getting "sorry, we're all booked up. please try again" messages back from them.


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## LoriP (Jun 2, 2014)

I've been debating this, so it is interesting to hear your thoughts. Thanks for sharing.

I have some older releases that just aren't doing much. They've never been in KU, so I was thinking of putting them in. 

And with my newer releases, I have been putting them in KU for 90 days then pulling them and going wide. But the other markets just aren't picking up the way I'd hoped, even after 6 months. I'm at a point now where I have to decide about whether or not to leave a book in (it comes out of KU next week)... and I keep changing my mind.

Who has a crystal ball I can borrow?


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2015)

Good luck, Annie.  It's your business and your life.  Don't ever forget that.  

Apart from my article writing, all my fiction eggs are happily in one basket.  For now, that's where they will remain.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm getting this sinking feeling that Amazon may finally have hit on the right combination to kill the competition. You can't blame anyone for going exclusive with Amazon when the platform is SO much stronger. What are people supposed to do? The idea is to make a living, not offer yourself up as a sacrificial lamb to help sustain failing platforms. I certainly feel the draw, and I'm tiny fry compared to Rosalind and Annie and Chris and Rick. 

The sad thing is that there's no reason Apple and Google couldn't offer excellent self-publishing platforms. Those companies have even deeper pockets than the 'Zon. They could bankroll all sorts of cool stuff, and maybe end up making money off it. But they're just not oriented toward book sales. Retail isn't their thing. They're largely static platforms, provided mostly so that existing device users can get something they already know they want -- so that people won't find the Android/iPhone experience dissatisfying. But being an effective retailer means selling people stuff they didn't know they wanted until you presented it to them. That's missing from the other platforms. There's little in the way of active sales tools, ways to catch the eye of potential buyers who haven't yet heard of your product.

As for Nook, Kobo, Scribd, and Oyster, they're just hopelessly outclassed, from what I can tell.

Dunno. Hopefully at least some of other platforms will step up to the plate and give us something to work with. Otherwise, self-publishing may well become largely oriented toward and dependent on Amazon.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

Annie, it is so nice to hear someone saying they like the sound of KU, especially when they were already doing well with other outlets. I am sick of reading people's opinion from their pedestals that they are much too important to be exclusive. If it works for you, it works. I write historical romance and I have collected a few loyal fans, one of whom tells everyone in her reviews that you can get it free with Kindle Unlimited! My permafree because free at the end of February and I have had 50,000 downloads of that via Amazon; I have had 80 via all the others put together. So I am definitely better off staying put. Let us know how it goes.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I read on another thread that readers get annoyed when writers suddenly pull their books from KU, especially if it's a series the reader was half way through. It might be worth thinking about reader backlash before pulling out of KU  . There will be readers very pleased to see some of these books back in again  .


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## Ainsley (Dec 26, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> I'm getting this sinking feeling that Amazon may finally have hit on the right combination to kill the competition. You can't blame anyone for going exclusive with Amazon when the platform is SO much stronger. What are people supposed to do? The idea is to make a living, not offer yourself up as a sacrificial lamb to help sustain failing platforms. I certainly feel the draw, and I'm tiny fry compared to Rosalind and Annie and Chris and Rick.
> 
> The sad thing is that there's no reason Apple and Google couldn't offer excellent self-publishing platforms. Those companies have even deeper pockets than the 'Zon. They could bankroll all sorts of cool stuff, and maybe end up making money off it. But they're just not oriented toward book sales. Retail isn't their thing. They're largely static platforms, provided mostly so that existing device users can get something they already know they want -- so that people won't find the Android/iPhone experience dissatisfying. But being an effective retailer means selling people stuff they didn't know they wanted until you presented it to them. That's missing from the other platforms. There's little in the way of active sales tools, ways to catch the eye of potential buyers who haven't yet heard of your product.
> 
> ...


Apple aka The Eye of Sauron will step in in due time. They've got much bigger fish to fry with iMusic and the upcoming cable-killer boxtop. Once those are out of the way they'll settle the anti-trust legal issues and aim for e-books. Maybe next year or the year after but I don't see Apple leaving publishing market to Amazon. No way.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I wish you great luck with your plans. Some of your reasons are counterintuitive to me, but we all must do what's right for us. I am working on expanding my business in the wide vendors and just started selling direct.

I think the nature of this business is as you say, adapt. If everyone leaves for KU, those who stay out wide will have some opportunity to capitalize and vice versa. As a friend, I only worry if you're lamenting missing out on the first go around and have adopted my mantra "the only time to make money with an Amazon program is right away!" LOL.  Personally, I feel like I just got everything settled, I don't want to yank all of the books. LOL. Not that I would, for me KU doesn't make sense because my performance in round 1 and what I'm seeing on the pen name book I have in as a tester right now.

But good luck Annie, I hope you find a new audience for your books!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> I read on another thread that readers get annoyed when writers suddenly pull their books from KU, especially if it's a series the reader was half way through. It might be worth thinking about reader backlash before pulling out of KU . There will be readers very pleased to see some of these books back in again .


Conversely, I have little doubt there will be readers ticked when someone pulls from the other outlets - especially mid series. I'm already updating my FAQs for that one.

With any kind of change, you're bound to make someone unhappy.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Ainsley said:


> Apple aka The Eye of Sauron will step in in due time. They've got much bigger fish to fry with iMusic and the upcoming cable-killer boxtop. Once those are out of the way they'll settle the anti-trust legal issues and aim for e-books. Maybe next year or the year after but I don't see Apple leaving publishing market to Amazon. No way.


Don't forget Google. They sort of own the Internet.


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## J.A. Cipriano (May 27, 2014)

Annie, I think you're making a wise decision.

I've always gotten at least as many borrows as sales, usually many more. Based on the new payout structure for my novels, they pay pretty much the same. So I am going to stay in because its laughable to think the other platforms can match 50% of Amazon revenue. Even if they do, how much more work is that? How long will it take? That's ignoring the obvious rankings boost borrows give you.

I'm reasonably sure anyone with novels is going to do better in select unless they have some kind of ridiculous following elsewhere because ads actually, you know, work there. 

There's reasons why the other platforms are bogus. I recognize Apple is strong, especially when they promote you, but honestly? Apple is always going to be hamstrung by needing iTunes and such to work. Sorry, but it is. They're still the cool kid answering the door at the party being like, "oh you didn't wear pink? You can't come in." Until they fix that issue, they're ALWAYS going to be second, at best.

There is the issue of putting all your eggs in one basket, and I'll admit I'm almost more concerned with the 'Amazon takes over and crushes us beneath its heel' scenario. The other vendors probably keep them honest, but let's be real, if Amazon wanted they could just be like, "sorry indies, you have to be exclusive to us or you don't get published here." There might be outcry, but I'm willing to be most people would still publish amazon and call everyone else a wash. Given the current scenario, I know I would.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

> And by the way to the person upthread saying that KU are a separate entity as readers, I don't think that is true at all.


I agree with this. My books are NOT in KU, but in a post on my FB page I asked my fans if they were KU subscribers. A surprising number of my fans ARE in Kindle Unlimited but have bought my books anyway. (Or borrowed them from the library. About once a month I remind readers they can do that.)

I plan to always have a book on KU starting with my next trilogy. I asked my non-Amazon fans if they would hesitate to buy a book on Amazon. They said no, and told me in no uncertain terms to do what would make the most sense for me financially. (I love my fans.)


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Basically, my reasoning was, "OK. People say, stay the course, tough it out, and eventually, you'll probably do well. If you sell well on Amazon, you can sell well wide."

And then I looked at what was happening with my "test group" of books in KU (as well as the # of borrows and the ranking on my Montlake book), and thought, "Well, heck. Do I want a potential 5 figures of extra money this month from Amazon, or do I want to keep sucking it up and not being able to go to New Zealand to research my next book, in the HOPE that I'll do well eventually wide?"

Yeah. Maybe eventually I'd do well wide. But you know--I'm turning 56, my health isn't the greatest, and I have a degree in finance that tells me money in my pocket now is worth a whole lot more than "potential" money somewhere down the road. So--yeah. I want to go spend a couple months in New Zealand, watch the Rugby World Cup in pubs, and write a new NZ book that will--yep--earn me some more money. So--there you go. Decision matrix. 

I've put two new releases into KU this month, and holy habanero, Batman, it's worked well. 

BUT: I write long. If the payout per page is anywhere at .5 cents or above, I'll make about as much per borrow as per sale, and my books aren't cheap--mostly $4.99. So there's that.

Everybody's situation is different. As I've said--I don't have an iBooks audience. And I sure as HECK don't have a Google audience.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

'Cause I made more on KU borrows yesterday (assuming .5 cents per page) than I did on ALL OTHER VENDORS for the past WEEK. Now THAT'S pathetic!


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

Why does it have to be KU "or" wide? Why not stay wide and put a few books in KU as well?


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Julianna said:


> Why does it have to be KU "or" wide? Why not stay wide and put a few books in KU as well?


Can't answer for Annie, but for me, I started that way, looked at the results on the KU ones vs. the wide ones, said, "Well, hell," and put the rest in.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

It appears I might be one of the last holdouts. My nook sales are staying steady while Amazon goes down, down down. I'm half where I was last year before KU. Sales for June this year look like this - 1743 Amazon vs 1188 from other retailers combined. I can't afford to lose those 1188.

I've given the new KU thing a lot of thought too and I don't see Amazon paying a good amount for very long. Actually, all they have to do is decrease the amount of money in the pot to lower the payout per page. When that happens, many will go wide again, but will have lost all their reviews and their customers may not trust that the series will be there until they can afford the next book. 

I'm just not willing to take the chance of upsetting my fan base.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

I think with Scribd dropping a huge number of romance books that KU would explode with new readers and authors of romance. I suspect Scribd has done nothing but strengthen their competition with this move. On top of that, Nook seems to be experiencing even more troubles now than it has in the past. Amazon may well win in the end.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Martitalbott said:


> money in the pot to lower the payout per page. When that happens, many will go wide again, but will have lost all their reviews and their customers may not trust that the series will be there until they can afford the next book.


Not necessarily. For most of the other platforms you can simply delist your book. The entry and info stays there, though. There's no need for the nuclear option.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Julianna said:


> Why does it have to be KU "or" wide? Why not stay wide and put a few books in KU as well?


You might start out with that plan but then look at the "wide" books and think about how much more they *could* be making in KU ...


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> You might start out with that plan but then look at the "wide" books and think about how much more they *could* be making in KU ...


And then add on the cumulative effect that the more books you have in KU the bigger the payout -- especially when you pick up a new fan and they go from book to book to book in KU.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> And then add on the cumulative effect that the more books you have in KU the bigger the payout -- especially when you pick up a new fan and they go from book to book to book in KU.


Mmm-hmm. And more books in KU = more chances at an All-Star bonus, right?


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

I was so happy to see this thread and read all the excellent posts. Especially the reasoning behind all the decisions.

I have been considering doing the same thing, myself, although I'm still a little torn between putting all my books into KDP Select and just making boxed sets of the first three books in each of my genres and just putting those in KDP Select. The latter is what I was actually leaning toward because I felt it gave readers a chance to get at least three books as borrows and hopefully, if they liked them, they would get the one or two other later books that are not in the boxed set. It seemed like a good compromise. But I'm looking at the numbers now and I'm wondering if it is even worthwhile leaving the other books out there in other venues.

But there is a lot of food for thought in this thread, and I really appreciate the information.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> Mmm-hmm. And more books in KU = more chances at an All-Star bonus, right?


Exactly.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Amy Corwin said:


> I was so happy to see this thread and read all the excellent posts. Especially the reasoning behind all the decisions.
> 
> I have been considering doing the same thing, myself, although I'm still a little torn between putting all my books into KDP Select and just making boxed sets of the first three books in each of my genres and just putting those in KDP Select. The latter is what I was actually leaning toward because I felt it gave readers a chance to get at least three books as borrows and hopefully, if they liked them, they would get the one or two other later books that are not in the boxed set. It seemed like a good compromise. But I'm looking at the numbers now and I'm wondering if it is even worthwhile leaving the other books out there in other venues.
> 
> But there is a lot of food for thought in this thread, and I really appreciate the information.


You can't do that if those three books are also wide. You would have to yank them down.


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## josielitton (Jul 21, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> I'm getting this sinking feeling that Amazon may finally have hit on the right combination to kill the competition. You can't blame anyone for going exclusive with Amazon when the platform is SO much stronger. What are people supposed to do? The idea is to make a living, not offer yourself up as a sacrificial lamb to help sustain failing platforms.


This +

Annie, thanks so much for sharing your reasoning. It's very helpful especially as I'm about to go all-in on KU this weekend after thinking for months that this is when I would be going wide.

To paraphrase Becca's wise words, Amazon may have hit the tipping point. I don't know whether to be worried about that or relieved. For the moment at least, I'm just glad to be able to concentrate on my next books.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Yup, seems like Amazon made the right calculation on this maneuver.  Kudos to them.

Interested to see how it all shakes out...


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

josielitton said:


> This +
> 
> Annie, thanks so much for sharing your reasoning. It's very helpful especially as I'm about to go all-in on KU this weekend after thinking for months that this is when I would be going wide.
> 
> To paraphrase Becca's wise words, Amazon may have hit the tipping point. I don't know whether to be worried about that or relieved. For the moment at least, I'm just glad to be able to concentrate on my next books.


I think this move will strengthen Amazon in the market place. It entices authors will longer works (like me) to come back to the Amazon fold, depriving other outlets of their content. I've decided to stay wide to capitalize on this. If there are fewer books on iTunes, Nook, Kobo, etc in my genre mine is more likely to get attention. Reps at those outlets will be more likely to work with me on promotion, because they fear exactly what's happening. People are folding up shop and moving to the Amazon tent.

I think this is a great movie for Annie, and as I said up thread I've considered the same. Fortunately, Apple has done great for me. Enough that going exclusive is less attractive. Also, audio changes the game as well. A little over 50% of my revenue comes from ACX, which makes the idea of bringing everything back to Amazon less tempting.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> I think this move will strengthen Amazon in the market place. It entices authors will longer works (like me) to come back to the Amazon fold, depriving other outlets of their content. I've decided to stay wide to capitalize on this. If there are fewer books on iTunes, Nook, Kobo, etc in my genre mine is more likely to get attention. Reps at those outlets will be more likely to work with me on promotion, because they fear exactly what's happening. People are folding up shop and moving to the Amazon tent.
> 
> I think this is a great movie for Annie, and as I said up thread I've considered the same. Fortunately, Apple has done great for me. Enough that going exclusive is less attractive. Also, audio changes the game as well. A little over 50% of my revenue comes from ACX, which makes the idea of bringing everything back to Amazon less tempting.


Being exclusive only affects ebooks. I have books on ACX (another six currently in production and two due to pop up any day now).


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

drno said:


> Good luck! I'm also trying to make sense of this KU mess. I just chucked 30 pages of my would be romance novel. I can only write mystery shorts it seems. Back to the drawing board.


Why did you chuck your Romance novel?


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> Being exclusive only affects ebooks. I have books on ACX (another six currently in production and two due to pop up any day now).


Yeah. Paperback and Audio are excluded from the exclusivity agreement.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Not necessarily. For most of the other platforms you can simply delist your book. The entry and info stays there, though. There's no need for the nuclear option.


You're right about de-listing, I forgot about that. When I switched from Smashwords to going direct, I lost everything. Haven't changed my mind about KU though. Something about going exclusive bothers me.

I'll wave from the poor house when all of you guys start rolling in the dough. )


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Yeah. Paperback and Audio are excluded from the exclusivity agreement.


So you can sell the paperback and audio versions of KU books on other platforms?


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2015)

Julianna said:


> So you can sell the paperback and audio versions of KU books on other platforms?


KU is for eBooks. Paperbacks and audios aren't part of that.


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## DashaGLogan (Jan 30, 2014)

I took three full length novels and the compilation out of KU for all the reasons you mention for going in.  The thing with KU nowadays is that the promos have no effect unless you work like crazy for promotions etc.
I want to try if the reps at Apple would pick me. I can't keep up with the algorithms for my longer StuffIt, because I have a seasonal job - I also want my name to be out there, everywhere.

(Funny thing about the Amazon dominance - in Germany, where I live, which is a huuuge market including Switzerland and Austria - Amazon hat been beaten on the ebook market by the Tolino now, which is a device that is linked to all the big German bookstores. You can walk into any B&N style shop here and get such a Reader.
So strange to think they made it, but the clue was that the competitors have united in this project and that people trust those brands and their integrity so very much.)


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## Annabel Chant (Feb 24, 2015)

Good luck, Annie. I hope everything works out for you, and I'm glad to hear you'll be keeping your reviews this time.


Just wanted to add, I love your new covers


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Annie, I think that you have to make your own decisions and I have to admit that for us novelists, KU 2.0 seems much more attractive than KU 1.0.

I still have an inherent dislike of Amazon getting too much control over the market and its insistence on exclusivity. I still don't like this idea of paying per page read and the subscription model in general, but if that is the way the market is going, we indies have to adjust and adapt.

I hope that Apple continues to up its game and really compete with Amazon. It's hard to market to Apple readers while it is much easier to market to Amazon readers, so that is a barrier. Apple needs to get serious. I'm with Chris that I am doing too well on Apple to pull out now with all my catalogue. Nook is a big concern but interestingly, I've had a good month so far on Nook.

I have just done a Bookbub free promo and am doing very well on the other vendors, but I will reassess once the boost wanes and we have our first data on KU 2.0 payout rate. My older series is a lower selling series that I might try out on KU 2.0 once the Bookbub effect wanes and it falls back in rank and sales. If KU 2.0 does well enough for it I might consider going all in once more when sales on the other channels fall below a certain level, if they do. Or, _when_ they do.

Again, if KU is here to stay and if subscription models are the way of the future, we can sit around and complain or we can adapt and pivot.

Or both.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

I've always resisted the Select/KU kool aid, but the change Amazon made on July 1 pushed me over the edge. I put two books that weren't selling into KU the first of June. 30 borrows and 13 sales as opposed to 5 sales on all platforms the previous month. Then I looked at June's sales figures and I sold 5 books on all platforms other than Amazon. In the first six months of the year, I sold about 175 books on other platforms. I do that a month on Amazon (yeah, NYT list I ain't).

With the new page-read royalty, I'll make as much or more on a borrow as I do on a sale. So far this month, I have borrows, but I'm also selling at a good clip. We'll see how it goes.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2015)

Best of luck Annie.

1) It's an interesting conundrum

- KU & Amazon are the best option for some authors.

- The more authors go exclusive the more power Amazon gets

- the more power Amazon gets the more likely that it'll start paying authors less

2) Of course, all this is going to happen down the line so the first 6 to 18 months we have no idea what's actually going on.

******

3) Things are changing a lot in the overall ebook market. However, that change doesn't seem to be reflecting here on KBoards. By my estimates Amazon is now down to 55% market share. However, on KBoards it would seem authors are making 90% of their money from Amazon.

So, where's the disconnect?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Thank you for  the well thought out post. I was debating keeping my new release out of KU, but when I heard about BN website woes, I changed my mind. When my books were wide, it was my second biggest sales outlet, but I don't even know how I would reach those readers to tell them about the new release. I may have a few on my mailing list, but not many.


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## Scout (Jun 2, 2014)

Best wishes, Annie.


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## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

I can attest to Annie's agonizing. We had many email discussions regarding her decision. 

My Irish series is staying wide until I finish it out next month. I have readers on other platforms that are waiting for it. After that - we'll see. 35% - 40% of my income is from other vendors. One Tequila is going into KU so I can test the waters. Once I see how that does for me, I can make a more informed decision on pulling my other books and putting them in KU. 

The problem with making a decision without putting one of your books into KU is that you have no idea how it will work for you. YMMV. 

I agree on the points on Amazon though. What happens two years from now if they decide that authors should not get 70% of sales but 40%? With less competition, they can do that. 

I also struggle with having my entire income coming from a singular vendor. Only because Amazon failed to pay me one month at a time when they were my only vendor. That wasn't fun.


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

Tricia O' said:


> I agree on the points on Amazon though. What happens two years from now if they decide that authors should not get 70% of sales but 40%? With less competition, they can do that.


I'll tell you what happens: you'll have people telling you, "Oh, well, it's still better than what traditional publishers pay," and comparing apples with dinosaurs.

That said, Annie, I wish you well. Truth is, the other retailers are failing us and forcing publishers into these decisions. In these last couple of weeks alone Scribd and Nook have dropped the ball. There are fewer and fewer reasons to stay wide nowadays. It's disturbing. I'm losing faith that the other retailers will, or even want to, get their act together. But they still make up between 35 - 60% of my income (it fluctuates when I have a new release on Amazon), so I won't be deserting. Also, when Amazon changes its algorithms and my sales tank temporarily, I like that I don't have to worry about that.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Your post gave me the impetus to stop chewing my fingernails and do something, Annie. Thanks.

However, I wonder about those of you who speak of going into KU as if it's something you can do between Monday and Tuesday. I've been afraid to put a book into KU until it's down from Smashwords and B&N (the only vendor I go through direct) at least a month. Is that unnecessary? Now that I've pulled the plug, the sooner I can get these books into KU the better.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

ellenoc said:


> However, I wonder about those of you who speak of going into KU as if it's something you can do between Monday and Tuesday. I've been afraid to put a book into KU until it's down from Smashwords and B&N (the only vendor I go through direct) at least a month. Is that unnecessary? Now that I've pulled the plug, the sooner I can get these books into KU the better.


Smashwords' premium catalog can be dicey depending on where you list, but chances are you'll be safely delisted from B&N within a day or two.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

ellenoc said:


> Your post gave me the impetus to stop chewing my fingernails and do something, Annie. Thanks.
> 
> However, I wonder about those of you who speak of going into KU as if it's something you can do between Monday and Tuesday. I've been afraid to put a book into KU until it's down from Smashwords and B&N (the only vendor I go through direct) at least a month. Is that unnecessary? Now that I've pulled the plug, the sooner I can get these books into KU the better.


As soon as you can't buy it on other sites it can go in.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Okay, that was the last push I needed! I just stuck my books in KU. (After triple checking I delisted everywhere, of course). Granted, I only have three books and they don't sell much at all, but it's still scary.

I always hated the idea of Select, but it makes the most sense. I have a four episode serial and the first two novels in another series coming out this year, and now the plan is to stick them all in KU.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Good luck, Annie. I hope it works out well for you. Everyone has to do what's best for their own business. For me, it's staying wide, but I get why others want to go all-in or part-in with KU. 

I hope you and others will update with results when you have them.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Everyone seems to talk about being all in or all out of KU. Does anyone try both?

I've just looked at my percentages per series. For most series, I'm selling 50% or more in non-Amazon venues so there is no way KU makes sense for those, except one series, which is 85% Amazon despite a lot of recent advertising that also lists other venues. I'm tempted to give the series a run in KU for three months and see what happens.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Everyone seems to talk about being all in or all out of KU. Does anyone try both?
> 
> I've just looked at my percentages per series. For most series, I'm selling 50% or more in non-Amazon venues so there is no way KU makes sense for those, except one series, which is 85% Amazon despite a lot of recent advertising that also lists other venues. I'm tempted to give the series a run in KU for three months and see what happens.


I just decided to try it with my Carson Series. First, though, I'm discounting it to $.99 each so my fans who don't have it can buy cheap before I delist. That's two books out of 37 that don't sell very well. Thing is, I don't know how to promote them. They will probably get lost in the shuffle.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

I can't believe I'm saying this but.....Annie, I disagree with everything you're doing. 

My percentages on the other platforms are actually doing better every month (including NOOK). I'm nearing the 50% Amazon/50% other vendors area and liking it very much. I know that no matter what Amazon does tomorrow I can now weather the storm. 

KUv2 just has too many unknowns, too many variables that Amazon can change any time they wish. Like Chris and a few others I'll be staying wide and hopefully growing even faster with the number of books going into KU. From a strictly business point-of-view though it would be wrong for me to pull my books from the other vendors. I sold a book in Pakistan the other day, that's not going to happen in KU.

I wish you luck, and I thank you (and everyone else) for being my test dummy(s).


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Martitalbott said:


> I just decided to try it with my Carson Series. First, though, I'm discounting it to $.99 each so my fans who don't have it can buy cheap before I delist. That's two books out of 37 that don't sell very well. Thing is, I don't know how to promote them. They will probably get lost in the shuffle.


I think KU works best for books that are very new or already have a bit of traction on Amazon. Oh well, we shall see. I think I've just decided to give this a go. I'm waiting for new covers and was going to up the price (from 99c to $2.99) for book 1. I suspect the 99c price point really doesn't work well on non-Amazon sites. I'm always up for trying stuff out, but going in all out would just be nuts for me, and very much against my philosophy besides.

It also depends on how much your book is geared towards readers of various countries. If mainly US, then KU is good. If international, you're better off outside.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

ireaderreview said:


> 3) Things are changing a lot in the overall ebook market. However, that change doesn't seem to be reflecting here on KBoards. By my estimates Amazon is now down to 55% market share. However, on KBoards it would seem authors are making 90% of their money from Amazon.
> 
> So, where's the disconnect?


By sales, most ebooks aren't written by indies.

Some thawts.

Rosalind is right that money now is worth more than money tomorrow, and especially _possible_ money tomorrow. There's nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines at Amazon instead of pretending that you're hedging your bets and planning for the future by going wide. Could Amazon implode or slash your royalties? Maybe. But B&N and Scribd _are_ imploding, and Annie's right about how difficult it is to move the needle with promos everywhere else. I think a lot of the arguments about going wide to protect yourself are simply specious. Listing your books elsewhere isn't a remarkable act of agency on your part if that's effectively the beginning and end of your wide marketing strategy.

Another argument is that if we go exclusive with Amazon and their competitors die off, they can then squeeze us for profits and we'll have no recourse. Recall, however, what Hugh said on this point nearly a year ago: if your books are already listed with Apple/B&N/Kobo/Scribd/&c., then you've taken away their incentive to compete with Amazon. They should be making things better for us in order to win us over. By going exclusive with Amazon, we are applying pressure to make them up their game. If you're already wide, then all they have to worry about is not becoming worse than they already are, or countering improvements offered by Amazon. Much less pressure there for them to compete for your business.

All of that aside, let's go back to the first point and recall that we're small fish. Retailers don't rise or fall based on the decisions of indy authors. You won't destroy B&N by pulling your books off of the Nook, and you won't save it by heroically joining their team. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking we have that kind of influence over the ebook market. Don't be a hero (unless you're certain that it's good for your business...Chris may be right about getting love from Apple reps and I'm sure he'll pivot if not).

If your sales at Amazon don't blow your mind, it might be because you've left money on the table by going wide. Marti gave the example of "1743 Amazon vs 1188 from other retailers combined." 60% of her sales are Amazon, 40% are otherwise. If she goes exclusive, she has to increase her Amazon revenues by about 75% to make up for the loss of wide revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if she can do that. There's loads of folks around here who make half or more of their Amazon royalties from KU payouts, and we've also seen that KU visibility increases paid sales. It's very important to remember the opportunity costs of going wide. (Note also that these costs extend to extra time spent managing different platforms, different editions, different promotions, &c.)

That's the main point I'd like folks to think about: just because you're making money elsewhere doesn't mean you wouldn't make _more_ money through exclusivity. That's the main thing that always trips folks up.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

But it's still not universal, nothing is. I was in KU1 for 6 months, as I added more books, I made LESS money. Since going wide, just not allowing readers to cannibalize my Amazon sales alone with borrows, recovered my earnings beyond what I was making sales + borrows. And I think the new payout is even worse for the higher priced books. My biggest earner last month made $6.99 a sale. At 548 pages, assuming the KENPC gods shined upon me and gave me 650 pages I'm making $3.70 a full read (since they're not borrows anymore). Only at a penny a page does a full read come close assuming they bumped up the page count.

I stay out of KU to protect my Amazon earnings first and foremost. I am wide so I have an opportunity to find another Amazon like income stream. I am starting to sell direct so that 5 years down the road, I won't need any vendor, but I'll still use them.

And at some point, enough is enough already. When you're in the group complaining that your books didn't earn you $18,000 this month, they only made you $9,000, it's apple and oranges to the experiences for the vast majority of authors out there. 

The only way to more sales is to engage with more readers. Whichever program you choose to do that in or with doesn't really matter, because you have to still be best at getting readers to your books. For me, being wide isn't about hedging my bets, it's about growth. The growth potential for me individually is always greater the more places my books are, the more books I have out. Because at any moment the other vendors can move into the stratosphere just like Amazon. 

But I'll get back to you on that NEXT wednesday.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

BN is imploding at roughly the same rate glaciers are crashing into North America. Scribd may have screwed over romance writers, but that also doesn't mean they're 'imploding'.

In fact, in the instance of Scribd, they're just proving how unstable the subscription model is.

A lot of the logic and reasoning being applied here aren't as solid as people keep insisting.

Also money now isn't better than money tomorrow when you're planning on having a tomorrow. To say otherwise is the stuff of bank runs and market crashes.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> The sad thing is that there's no reason Apple and Google couldn't offer excellent self-publishing platforms. Those companies have even deeper pockets than the 'Zon. They could bankroll all sorts of cool stuff, and maybe end up making money off it. But they're just not oriented toward book sales.
> 
> But being an effective retailer means selling people stuff they didn't know they wanted until you presented it to them. That's missing from the other platforms. There's little in the way of active sales tools, ways to catch the eye of potential buyers who haven't yet heard of your product.
> 
> Dunno. Hopefully at least some of other platforms will step up to the plate and give us something to work with. Otherwise, self-publishing may well become largely oriented toward and dependent on Amazon.


How can we make Apple see the potential in the book business? They have the most elegant products--the best computers, iPhones, etc. They could make an ereader that would outshine anything Amazon could produce. They have an impeccable track record, and the money and engineering know-how to do it. Maybe it's up to us to encourage them. If we don't, we might find ourselves in the position where we are at the mercy of one powerful vendor.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Whoops! I forgot to say Good Luck, Annie! You've made a well-thought out decision, and I wish you the best.


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## Cege Smith (Dec 11, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Everyone seems to talk about being all in or all out of KU. Does anyone try both?
> 
> I've just looked at my percentages per series. For most series, I'm selling 50% or more in non-Amazon venues so there is no way KU makes sense for those, except one series, which is 85% Amazon despite a lot of recent advertising that also lists other venues. I'm tempted to give the series a run in KU for three months and see what happens.


I do both- but I have 45 titles or so to play with. My romance stuff (mostly serials) is all in KU. My paranormal/horror series (I have 3) under my other pen name are all wide. Two of those start with permafrees that I can still get a BB ad on pretty much whenever I submit them. (I don't take that for granted, and I am knocking on wood as I type those words that will continue.) The 3rd series is a conundrum. The first book was prermafree and I had it wide- sales were anemic. I put in in KU and pretty much no one bought or borrowed it either. I've pulled it back out wide and got the permafree again and have been getting a little bit of traction on B&N with it which is way better than the $0 I was making on it in KU.

So I do think it's a decision to be made on multiple factors (length, genre, ability to book ads, etc.) depending on your catalog.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> The only way to more sales is to engage with more readers. Whichever program you choose to do that in or with doesn't really matter, because you have to still be best at getting readers to your books. For me, being wide isn't about hedging my bets, it's about growth. The growth potential for me individually is always greater the more places my books are, the more books I have out. Because at any moment the other vendors can move into the stratosphere just like Amazon.


This. Well said. You should be like...a writer or something. 

Trying to reach more readers by putting all of your books in one basket just makes no sense to me. I'm staying wide with the goal of going even wider.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Well, I think different things work for different writers and it's both silly and obnoxious to claim you have the answer for everyone.

Going KU makes sense for me right now. If it doesn't make sense in three or six or twelve months, I'll change course. If it doesn't make sense for you, that's great too. Less competition for borrows


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Marian said:


> How can we make Apple see the potential in the book business? They have the most elegant products--the best computers, iPhones, etc. They could make an ereader that would outshine anything Amazon could produce. They have an impeccable track record, and the money and engineering know-how to do it. Maybe it's up to us to encourage them. If we don't, we might find ourselves in the position where we are at the mercy of one powerful vendor.


I doubt they have any interest in ereaders. Just phones and tablets.  But even focusing just on providing content for those devices, there's got to be something Apple could do to sell more books. Lord knows, they're great at selling music.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Dolphin said:


> By sales, most ebooks aren't written by indies.
> 
> Some thawts.
> 
> ...


+1
Love your thawts, Dolphin.



Elizabeth Ann West said:


> But it's still not universal, nothing is. I was in KU1 for 6 months, as I added more books, I made LESS money. Since going wide, just not allowing readers to cannibalize my Amazon sales alone with borrows, recovered my earnings beyond what I was making sales + borrows. And I think the new payout is even worse for the higher priced books. My biggest earner last month made $6.99 a sale.


I think we all wonder if we could make it the way you're doing, EAW! (Yes, I totally used your initials!!!!!!)  Also, you are awesome. 

It does seem as though you have a very specific market and one you've developed for years in & outside of all platforms. It seems as though the main goal for you is to stay connected with your readers (Austen fans) and reach them in whatever ways they read, especially since you already have a connection.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I suspect there will always be different choices for different people.



Vaalingrade said:


> In fact, in the instance of Scribd, they're just proving how unstable the subscription model is.


I do find myself wondering about that...


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

Rodeo Host said:


> I do both- but I have 45 titles or so to play with. My romance stuff (mostly serials) is all in KU. My paranormal/horror series (I have 3) under my other pen name are all wide. Two of those start with permafrees that I can still get a BB ad on pretty much whenever I submit them. (I don't take that for granted, and I am knocking on wood as I type those words that will continue.) The 3rd series is a conundrum. The first book was prermafree and I had it wide- sales were anemic. I put in in KU and pretty much no one bought or borrowed it either. I've pulled it back out wide and got the permafree again and have been getting a little bit of traction on B&N with it which is way better than the $0 I was making on it in KU.
> 
> So I do think it's a decision to be made on multiple factors (length, genre, ability to book ads, etc.) depending on your catalog.


Has paranormal/horror been a profitable genre for you so far?


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

Annie I applaud your reasoning ability and persistence as a problem-solver. I don't hold with wishes or "luck" but I do respect those who make their own, and I think you're doing that. You go, young lady! I'm hoping you beat the crap out of your best numbers so far. And willing to bet a prequel that you'll do it.

KSelect looks like it's right for you and several others here who were on the fence. We're new and all our titles were designed around the serial and series model, with 12K to 35K installments, so our 20 or so titles will all be starting off in KU. Do I think KU2 will be the best place for all these titles three years from now? Perhaps not, but the probability is "yes". But of course we have a plan for putting them wide if my analysis turns out to be faulty.

A brief word to those who think Google or Apple or some other company will be a serious competitor to Amazon:

Sorry.

Not to say that they cannot be. To predict rather that they will not be. 

I'll simply list some of the bigger reasons. There's no serious money in this niche business. Apple and Googs do not need the piddling number of readers to make their numbers. Amazon is the world's biggest online retailer, doh. They make their(absurdly low) profit based on the thinnest of margins. KU readers are a key loss-leader segment for Amazon. Google sells to businesses, not consumers. Apple sells to a tech-mesmerized privileged segment, people who see and touch and hear and feel and chat and socialize, not people who read freakin' books. Amazon and Google don't want a business where a bunch of chaos-loving authors provide the raison d'etre of the business model. The more successful Indies become, the less interest these mega oligarchs will have in owning a bookstore. Google is unreliable. It can close an entire division in a heartbeat. If Apple was serious about gathering the readers in, they'd have a world-beater reader by now, as someone suggested here. 

Those who persist in the unsubstantiated belief that Amazon's long term interest is in screwing authors and/or reducing the KU pot seem to not understand that the name of Amazon's game is *growth*. Does Amazon want to encourage the quality writers who can engage and hold the interest of the target consumers Amazon needs to grow? You betcha. The KU pot will grow. Efforts like KU 2.0 to weed out poor quality will continue. These are compatible programs.

Those who fret about one huge distributor dominating all of us at some point are assuming these other guys want to compete with Amazon. Why would they?

Hey, I could be wrong in whole or in part. My track record as a long-term product and marketing forecaster is mixed, Just like everyone else.

But if I am wrong, the reason won't be that Apple of Googs has built a competitive platform to Amazon. It will be that one of the two mega tech companies, or -- gasp! -- M$oft has simply *bought* Amazon.  And if this happens, guess whom we'll all be dealing with then?

KDP, folks.


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## Joe M (May 23, 2015)

I'm new, a prawn, but for those of you with sage knowledge do you think the benefit of Wide/KU hinges more on your genre than other considerations? For example Annie writes primarily Romance and if most of the readers in KU are looking for Romance it makes a whole lot more sense than another author like Chris who writes primarily sci-fi and horror whose readers are more likely not to be in KU. 

Anyways, good luck Annie and thanks again for everyone on the board for making such a great place to learn.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Lots of great discussion I've generated!!! I love that everyone is sharing their own thoughts and opinions. I even love the guys who are telling me I'm wrong!   (I might be...it remains to be seen).

Keep it coming...I'm reading every post!


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Lots of good stuff in this thread.

Amazon _is_ the biggest market and anyone who wants to sell books MUST be there.

I am there.

However, I am not exclusive because I was seriously hurt financially when KU 1.0 was unleashed. I realized that Amazon can change its terms in a very short time and seriously negatively affect my bottom line. That means that I have to protect myself for the next time it decides to tweak its algorithms.

For me, going wide is the better strategy because it opens up new markets and it doesn't mean I can't also sell on Amazon. There are lots of readers at Apple and potentially lots elsewhere. Even though I am not exclusive, there are _so_ many readers on Amazon in my genre that I have only scratched the surface with my books in the 3 years since I started publishing. As long as I can keep putting my books in front of new readers, using various promotional approaches and marketing techniques, I expect that it is possible to keep growing and reaching more readers, on Amazon as well as off. My sales have continued to grow each year and so I will keep trying to reach more readers for my catalogue as well as keep releasing new books and series.

Exclusivity is not necessary to make serious money as an indie.

Besides, there is nothing to keep me from putting my books in KU if every other market collapses. Amazon is not going to turn us away should they become the one and only king of the online eBook world. So it will be there if and when going exclusive makes sense for me personally.

Again, I think that each of us has to decide for ourselves what suits us as business people and authors. What are our goals and what is our strategy to achieve those goals? How risk averse are we? What do we need to consider ourselves a success?

Where I am personally right now, exclusivity doesn't make sense, but that may not always be true.

Luckily, I still have options as we all do.


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## delly_xo (Oct 29, 2014)

@AnnieJacoby, I literally JUST went back into KU with everything, and then thought to check Kboards before shutting down. I'm hoping it's a really good sign that you wrote this post . 

I was starting to get some traction - not much, but some, on other vendors. What looked most promising to me was allromanceebooks. I made as much there in 3 days as I did on all the vendors I listed with on D2D in one month.

But things are incredibly tight right now, I need maximum exposure, and I have to think about the short term. If KU2 doesn't work out, it's okay. It's only another 3 months, and I can't afford to build up my audience on other platforms right now. And...Amazon will still let you out of KU2 if you ask them to. So, imho, no harm, no foul.

Best of luck to you!


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> Everyone seems to talk about being all in or all out of KU. Does anyone try both?
> 
> I've just looked at my percentages per series. For most series, I'm selling 50% or more in non-Amazon venues so there is no way KU makes sense for those, except one series, which is 85% Amazon despite a lot of recent advertising that also lists other venues. I'm tempted to give the series a run in KU for three months and see what happens.


I'm trying KU2 with one pen name and leaving the other two pen names wide. I have two books in KU2 now and will also be releasing the first two books in a new series soon-ish.

I hope it works out for Annie, Rosalind and everyone else testing the KU2 waters. I appreciate these thoughtful, non-inflammatory threads.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Becca Mills said:


> I'm getting this sinking feeling that Amazon may finally have hit on the right combination to kill the competition. You can't blame anyone for going exclusive with Amazon when the platform is SO much stronger. What are people supposed to do? The idea is to make a living, not offer yourself up as a sacrificial lamb to help sustain failing platforms. I certainly feel the draw, and I'm tiny fry compared to Rosalind and Annie and Chris and Rick.
> 
> The sad thing is that there's no reason Apple and Google couldn't offer excellent self-publishing platforms. Those companies have even deeper pockets than the 'Zon. They could bankroll all sorts of cool stuff, and maybe end up making money off it. But they're just not oriented toward book sales. Retail isn't their thing. They're largely static platforms, provided mostly so that existing device users can get something they already know they want -- so that people won't find the Android/iPhone experience dissatisfying. But being an effective retailer means selling people stuff they didn't know they wanted until you presented it to them. That's missing from the other platforms. There's little in the way of active sales tools, ways to catch the eye of potential buyers who haven't yet heard of your product.
> 
> ...


+1


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

This seems to be such a black-and-white subject. 

While I'm not in favour of putting everything in KU as a long-term strategy for reasons of security of income, I think KU is part of the strategy to go wide, and there are certain books that may do better in it. Or you could cycle books through it to make use of advertising opportunities and possibly increased visibility. You don't know until you try. I had great fun with my short stories in KU1, but I've withdrawn them and some have already had sales on B&N.

I'm going to try KU2 on this series. I looked at the top-selling SF books and they're all in KU. The series doesn't sell as well on the other venues as on Amazon, so I'll give it a go. It's only three months, after all.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Patty Jansen said:


> This seems to be such a black-and-white subject.
> 
> While I'm not in favour of putting everything in KU as a long-term strategy for reasons of security of income, I think KU is part of the strategy to go wide, and there are certain books that may do better in it. Or you could cycle books through it to make use of advertising opportunities and possibly increased visibility. You don't know until you try. I had great fun with my short stories in KU1, but I've withdrawn them and some have already had sales on B&N.
> 
> I'm going to try KU2 on this series. I looked at the top-selling SF books and they're all in KU. The series doesn't sell as well on the other venues as on Amazon, so I'll give it a go. It's only three months, after all.


I've been saying this all along.

I'm in KU with one series. I get enough reads to justify staying in, and also enough emails from KU members who go on to actually purchase my other non-KU books. KU is a separate platform in itself. At least that's how I think of it. So it makes some sense to put a series or two in there.

For me, KU is a funnel. If readers enjoy my KU series enough, they can check out some of my other non KU work. Weirdly enough, from the amount of contact I've had, this does work. KU readers have contacted me about buying other books.

I'm wary of going all in simply because going all in KU1.0 seriously harmed my income. I'm talking thousands a month to hundreds a month. Maybe it was a coincidence, but something happened around that time and I'm willing to bet that's what it was. It took me half a year to resuscitate my career, and although I'm doing better now than I ever was before, I remain vigilant and never take a thing for granted.

So for me, I'm keeping a KU series in there and throwing in my 5 or 6 standalones too. That way, I've enough in there to capitalise on its success and enough out to stay secure.

Good debate. Nice spread of opinion. Best wishes to everybody.


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## DashaGLogan (Jan 30, 2014)

I was wonderimg... More and more books are in KU, meaning more and more pages. For the moment. Amazon has to keep their revenue steady. They need quite a lot of new KU Subscribers to pay 9.99 a month. Now the question is, in a subscription model ypu just load books so easily? "I'd normally not read this, but let's take a look inside."  - people are bringe reading! i did that on Scribd - but will 9.99 a month by every reader be enough? They will have calculated it of course but I wonder if they are ready for the binge people, especially in romance, who actually killed Scribd.  They won't know what hits them. 
As a pretty small fish, I alone already within one week have several ten-thousand pages read. How many books are out there? I never believe it will only be 2 billion, now with so many established writers like you Annie and Rosalind going all in. And the battle for visibility will be even harder...
And what about money for real sales for Amazon?
They will only make more money now if they get enough new subscribers.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

Thank you so much for sharing this information. I'm currently trying to make decisions about my own books and this helps. Best of luck with everything!


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for sharing! 

Yup the reasons for going with Amazon KU are pretty sound. Even though it's frustrating - the fact is Amazon is winning the publishing and indie book retailing game.  They hold all the cards and all we can do is change up our game to keep current. 

So I'm re-inventing myself from scratch to make a little hay while the getting good. Because who knows what KU3 will bring us next year.  So I'm writing long form PNR right now with a spicy twist  . 

All in here we come..


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

DashaGLogan said:


> I was wonderimg... More and more books are in KU, meaning more and more pages. For the moment. Amazon has to keep their revenue steady. They need quite a lot of new KU Subscribers to pay 9.99 a month. Now the question is, in a subscription model ypu just load books so easily? "I'd normally not read this, but let's take a look inside." - people are bringe reading! i did that on Scribd - but will 9.99 a month by every reader be enough? They will have calculated it of course but I wonder if they are ready for the binge people, especially in romance, who actually killed Scribd. They won't know what hits them.
> As a pretty small fish, I alone already within one week have several ten-thousand pages read. How many books are out there? I never believe it will only be 2 billion, now with so many established writers like you Annie and Rosalind going all in. And the battle for visibility will be even harder...
> And what about money for real sales for Amazon?
> They will only make more money now if they get enough new subscribers.


Since the Global Fund is an arbitrary number that Amazon pulls out of their corporate nether regions on a monthly basis, they don't necessarily pay more or less when borrows/pages read fluctuate. On the other hand, if I have a catalog of novels and I think that I can wrangle a bigger piece of the pie now that I'm competing on pages instead of titles, I improve Amazon's KU sales pitch to customers by adding my titles. They aren't paying any more to authors whether I win or not, but they theoretically sell a few more memberships. Amazon and their customers come out ahead.

As for sales figures, short of kidnapping and interrogating an acquaintance at the 'Zon who probably doesn't know, I can't think of a way to gain major insight. We know Amazon's happy to take a loss in order to recruit more customers. For all we know, they make more money off of electronics sales to KU members than they make off of ebook sales to them. They might think of us more as a marketing and revisitability tool than anything else (think about this: Prime members spend an average of $1,500 on Amazon annually, vs. $625 on average for non-members). Looking from the outside in, it's practically impossible for us to even grasp all of the variables, let alone their values. Still...I'd bet they come out ahead. I would bet that they sell more products to people who are KU members than people who never join. I would bet that it correlates to increased sales instead of cannibalization.

That hints at Amazon advantages that Scribd can never compete against. I wouldn't worry too much about what Scribd signals for other subscription services simply because Amazon isn't a mere subscription service. They've funded it for a year with spare change they found in the break room couch cushions and probably couldn't care less whether subscriptions can cover the entire Global Fund.

None of Amazon's decisions begin and end with ebooks. Least of all indy ebooks.


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## delly_xo (Oct 29, 2014)

Dolphin said:


> Since the Global Fund is an arbitrary number that Amazon pulls out of their corporate nether regions on a monthly basis, they don't necessarily pay more or less when borrows/pages read fluctuate. On the other hand, if I have a catalog of novels and I think that I can wrangle a bigger piece of the pie now that I'm competing on pages instead of titles, I improve Amazon's KU sales pitch to customers by adding my titles. They aren't paying any more to authors whether I win or not, but they theoretically sell a few more memberships. Amazon and their customers come out ahead.
> 
> As for sales figures, short of kidnapping and interrogating an acquaintance at the 'Zon who probably doesn't know, I can't think of a way to gain major insight. We know Amazon's happy to take a loss in order to recruit more customers. For all we know, they make more money off of electronics sales to KU members than they make off of ebook sales to them. They might think of us more as a marketing and revisitability tool than anything else (think about this: Prime members spend an average of $1,500 on Amazon annually, vs. $625 on average for non-members). Looking from the outside in, it's practically impossible for us to even grasp all of the variables, let alone their values. Still...I'd bet they come out ahead. I would bet that they sell more products to people who are KU members than people who never join. I would bet that it correlates to increased sales instead of cannibalization.
> 
> ...


This made me laugh so hard.
It's so true too.
I completely agree. eBooks are a mere sliver of the Amazonion pie. It's just a hook, really. Sort of like how some of us authors do permafree to draw readers in to get them to buy more books. Over the last year, I have purchased a sofa bed, art supplies, handbags, shoes, pantry items, household items, and cosmetics from Amazon because I like being able to go and read reviews easily before one-clicking. 
Trust me, they are generating tons more revenue from sales like that. That's why they can afford to top off the global fund by several millions of dollars every month.


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## DashaGLogan (Jan 30, 2014)

Yes, I agree they do, (I buy EVERYTHING THERE ;-D ) but what will this leave for us as authors? Or how much do they care for their book market in total these days?
I'm half in and half out, but the thing that I really wonder about is how to stay visible now on Amazon when the KDP Select Marketing Tools are literally disfunct, without paying a lot of money for promotions. Maybe I'm wrong and it's getting better now that the E-Rom Shorts are pulling out, because they were in every category from inspirational to military... I'll keep a close watch with my new releases in romance.
But as an old saying goes, "It's better to be first in the village than second in the kingdom".

I'm excited to see what Annie reports.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2015)

This: Since the Global Fund is an arbitrary number that Amazon pulls out of their corporate nether regions on a monthly basis, they don't necessarily pay more or less when borrows/pages read fluctuate. On the other hand, if I have a catalog of novels and I think that I can wrangle a bigger piece of the pie now that I'm competing on pages instead of titles, I improve Amazon's KU sales pitch to customers by adding my titles. They aren't paying any more to authors whether I win or not, but they theoretically sell a few more memberships. Amazon and their customers come out ahead.


*****
You have to figure out where YOU stand in the whole process.

At this point indie authors are a COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE for Amazon because it gives them exclusive books.


If at some point of time indie authors aren't needed, then they'll be considered external factors and dropped/eliminated.

***
So

a) Make money from these changes while Amazon is sending out money to make KU grow.

b) Have a backup strategy. Ideally put it into place right now.

c) Realize that the more books you make exclusive to Amazon, the more you're accelerating your own demise i.e. you will be less and less necessary the more Amazon's market share grows and the more KU grows.

*****
So you have to balance 

- making money in the short and medium term
AGAINST
- making yourself redundant by turning one company or one subscription service into a monopoly.

****
Based on what has happened in all other digital markets that have gone through this process, you can count on the crowd to not be very smart and sow the seeds of its own demise.
There are very few people who have the ability to delay gratification, while Amazon is very good at it.


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## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> Basically, my reasoning was, "OK. People say, stay the course, tough it out, and eventually, you'll probably do well. If you sell well on Amazon, you can sell well wide."
> 
> And then I looked at what was happening with my "test group" of books in KU (as well as the # of borrows and the ranking on my Montlake book), and thought, "Well, heck. Do I want a potential 5 figures of extra money this month from Amazon, or do I want to keep sucking it up and not being able to go to New Zealand to research my next book, in the HOPE that I'll do well eventually wide?"


This was my thinking. I gave "wide" 10 months with one of my series, and for many of the reasons Annie described, I just couldn't justify the continued forfeiture of income. I put the series back into Select a few weeks before KU 2.0 was announced...pleasantly surprised. HOPE seemed to be the big strategy on the other vendors. Hope Kobo features your permafree as a "first in a series," hope Apple runs internal promotions, hope Nook doesn't shut down overnight, hope Google does something. Like Annie said, BookBub was the only promo that made a difference, and each promo tail was very short lived. I was fortunate to grab 2 BB promos (2 diff books), which made it more palatable financially to HOPE that the books took off, or developed a fan base wide. But that's a gamble in itself.

Everyone needs to test the "wide" waters, but don't let others convince you to stay the course, when nothing is happening for your books. 
"Wide" is where you have an expanding readership. From my experience, putting my books outside of Amazon NARROWED my readership.


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Steven Konkoly said:


> This was my thinking. I gave "wide" 10 months with one of my series, and for many of the reasons Annie described, I just couldn't justify the continued forfeiture of income. I put the series back into Select a few weeks before KU 2.0 was announced...pleasantly surprised. HOPE seemed to be the big strategy on the other vendors. Hope Kobo features your permafree as a "first in a series," hope Apple runs internal promotions, hope Nook doesn't shut down overnight, hope Google does something. Like Annie said, BookBub was the only promo that made a difference, and each promo tail was very short lived. I was fortunate to grab 2 BB promos (2 diff books), which made it more palatable financially to HOPE that the books took off, or developed a fan base wide. But that's a gamble in itself.
> 
> Everyone needs to test the "wide" waters, but don't let others convince you to stay the course, when nothing is happening for your books.
> "Wide" is where you have an expanding readership. From my experience, putting my books outside of Amazon NARROWED my readership.


Good info thanks!


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

Control Your Destiny or someone else will.

This. It's what it all comes down to really. By going all-in on one platform you loose that control. You're now at the mercy of whatever they wish to give you. People are using the word "hope" a lot when describing the other platforms. Well, everyone in KU better "hope" that Amazon pays well, because if they don't you're stuck with it.

Since we're throwing around single word descriptions I'll add another; leverage. With KU you have none. Here's another: Information. With KU you don't know what they are paying per page. You don't know the number of books borrowed. You don't know the formula they are using to calculate your words per page You don't know the size of the pot. You don't know the number of books in KU. You basically don't know anything about the deal you are agreeing to.

Why people are finding this attractive as a revenue source I have no idea. As a discovery tool yes, but as a deal to base their entire income on? Nope.

But to each their own.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Randall Wood said:


> By going all-in on one platform you loose that control.
> 
> Why people are finding this attractive as a revenue source I have no idea. As a discovery tool yes, but as a deal to base their entire income on? Nope.


The thing is, I don't see this as a loss of control. KU is a choice. If that choice doesn't pan out, it'd be quite literally a matter of a few button presses to reactivate my books on the other platforms.

The risk: revenue and momentum, but let's be honest that's a risk no matter what we test. One small change of keywords can bring us screaming to a halt. This is no different. I've weighed that risk and what it's worth to me for this time period, and found it to be worth a trial run.

For me, I have minimal data on KU. I've been wide with my bigger sellers since day 1. This is a chance for me to augment my arsenal with data. If I come out of this smarter than I went in, then all the better.


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## sinapse (Apr 28, 2015)

ireaderreview said:


> This: Since the Global Fund is an arbitrary number that Amazon pulls out of their corporate nether regions on a monthly basis, they don't necessarily pay more or less when borrows/pages read fluctuate.
> *****
> If at some point of time indie authors aren't needed, then they'll be considered external factors and dropped/eliminated.
> 
> ...


I enjoy reading *ireaderreview*. She/he always has useful instructive counsel about selling books. But as smart and wise as he/she is, s/h makes the same error in *business* analysis as the majority do here.

There is this myth that KU is some sort of zero-sum game. That's not factually demonstrated. What is factually demonstrated is that the Zon will change the game whenever it suits its purposes. How? By manipulating the payment and exclusivity rules and rankings and visibility "bonuses" and the quality control mechanisms to achieve its growth goals, where that growth comes in part from expanding global books readership, and in part from killing or blocking the competing distributors.

There is a second myth expressed often in these threads by those here who have experienced the Euro-centric model. Under this kind of management, the "pie" was seen as an absolutely limited thing. More for me, less for you. If I get a better job, you get a worse one. If I toe the line and am made a winner, then you are made redundant. I am *not* comparing the (equally stupid) "American" management system to the Brit or continental ones. (Talk to me some other time about the failures of the capitalist systems.) I *am* saying that fearing being made redundant from your own success in KU (or anything else) harks back to times when economics was based on grabbing share from a finite source of revenues, instead of expanding the sources. Fellow writer/publishers, I lived and worked through those decades, and saw the defeatism first hand. It doesn't apply here.

There is a related myth that KU somehow needs to make a profit every month, or risk being shutdown. That is simply untrue. I won't explain again why. Suffice to say if KU proves itself as a self-funding source of new long-term Zon customers, it will be expanded. The pot will expand. The visibility bennies will be there. And so will exclusivity. Take it; don't leave it.

The authors of quality work are not incidental to the Zon's goals, but *central*. Grow the "good" authors list and grow KU and grow more steady Amazon customers. It's simple.

Ireaderreview also thinks that once the Zon has achieved its goals, we will be dumped over the side. With all due respect, no one here has a clue what the Zon's goals are. Not even Mr. Zon himself. More likely, he's just not saying. But we would be daft to make the fundamental error that the Zon will ever be willing to stop growing. There is no such thing as "enough" sales. Be central to getting more sales, and be well.

Should you be prepared to move away from KU? Of course. Annie and Rosalind and many others have worked out which titles "fit" KU best now, and will doubtless be tuning their catalog constantly. I can't add to their experience and wisdom and sheer guts.

Am I saying Randall Wood's chosen strategy is "bad"? Not at all. Do I think his fears about losing control are unjustified? Yes, at least through the foreseeable future. But that does NOT mean he shouldn't go wide right now. As he says, "to each his own".

An analyst can't use that quote. An analyst has to factor in opportunity costs as well as the easily counted ones. Few of the folks here use opportunity cost thinking, and little wonder, since their training is in happier subjects than the dismal science. I wasn't so fortunate.

I'm including opportunity costs when I predict the most likely scenario for our collective market. There are a lot of strategies, sure, and each is free to select the one that best fits his or her situation. But overall, on average, there are only a few *most profitable* strategies. In any market. I'm working to find and apply those, for our own goals, and for the majority of those who agree with the analysis.

But whether one is wide or not, I can stress what is becoming more and more obvious: to survive as an independent author and publisher we all need to focus on our fan and subscriber lists. Listen to Mark Dawson, Mike Shreeve, and the others. Build your lists of quality readers of your quality books. Right after more books, that is or should be our top priority. Make sure you have a following that will buy your stuff wherever it's being distributed, or buy it direct someday.

We, the productive members of the KU partnership, do not risk redundancy. The competitors who can't or won't compete do.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Well, thanks to Annie, and Trackerbox, I will be going into KU with some books that actually matter to me (as opposed to some marginal stuff that was fun but what the hey). These books matter so much to me that I'm spending big on the covers. 

They sell by far the best on Amazon, and are the only series of mine doing so. I will be going in for the promo opportunities and hopefully the mailing list signups, because the series is not done yet, and I'll publish a new book in this series within the next few weeks.

If it doesn't work, I'll simply tick a few boxes and the books will re-appear on other sites. It's that simple.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Amazing how Amazon is the only vendor that can cause such a seismic shift. I wish you the best of luck, Annie. I completely understand. 

I put my contemporaries in KU a couple of months ago and have yet to regret it. There was no way for readers of that specific sub-genre to find them on other vendors and thus no visibility, which meant next to no sales. They earn me more in KU sometimes in a day than they did in a week or a month elsewhere. Simply because they're discoverable on Amazon through KU.

My HF is wide, with one being permafree. The effects of a January BB ad are dwindling, but still present. So I'm in both camps at the moment. 

This is a complex issue and what works for one writer may not work for another. What works today may not work tomorrow. Do you stay loyal to readers on other venues? Or go Select and possibly find even more readers? 

There is no sure thing. Except that things change.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

HSh said:


> I think we all wonder if we could make it the way you're doing, EAW! (Yes, I totally used your initials!!!!!!)  Also, you are awesome.
> 
> It does seem as though you have a very specific market and one you've developed for years in & outside of all platforms. It seems as though the main goal for you is to stay connected with your readers (Austen fans) and reach them in whatever ways they read, especially since you already have a connection.
> 
> ...


I really hope I don't still come off as my way is the only way, I really try to NOT sound like that. I try to be as transparent as I can be so that everyone can find where their niche is. I've even written threads here about how you can figure out if there's not enough content to a subniche by looking at the sales rankings of #1, #20, and #100 of the Bestseller lists, the hot new releases lists and how many books they're getting in 30 and 90 days.

I was a reader for years in JAFF, not a writer. I've only been writing and publishing JAFF for a year, and what a year it has been! 9 original titles, 1 bundle, and 1 translation. I figured out it was just shy of 18,000 books sold at retail prices and over $42,000 in gross revenue. And that was with making a book free at the end of March and raising prices.

I think the only reason I see the success I do is because I decide now where I want to go and then make steps to get there. For example, I have even puzzled out a way to make money in KU if I wanted to. If I was going to release a serial in KU, I would always bundle the episodes. So book 1 goes out. Then Book 1 + Book 2. Then Book 1, 2, + 3. Constantly increasing the page count, because MOST serial readers go back and reread earlier episodes, but we aren't PAID for rereads, so I would say it's to help anyone jump into my story at any time, readers can skip ahead (not all will, so you get paid for them rereading the material), and I'd keep the price the same. So Book 1 is 99 cents or $2.99, Book 1+2 is $3.99, Book 1, 2, 3 is $3.99 etc. etc. Yes, you lose on people buying all of your episodes from the beginning, but you're making up for it with the page reads. You also could release both, a single epsiode and the bundle. Keep the single episode not in KU but only published to Amazon, and put the bundle in KU with a higher retail price. See? This new system is workable if you write shorter serialized fiction.

But now? I confess I want to be a named player in helping to bring about a resurgence in Jane Austen Fan Fiction. I wear my badge of "derivative writer" with pride. I want to have my metaphoric pom-poms on and go to conferences and events and mingle with readers. And one day, I want one of my stories to be turned into a film or mini-series or TV show. I have a good ten years of career to go out there and rock and then I will reevaluate, and now that I'm in my 30s, more people take me seriously than they ever did when I was in my 20s  LOL.

One of the best dreams of mine has already come true. My children call me a writer. And my youngest mimics her Mommy by writing stories that are 1-2 sentences and about 5-10 pages long. With a cover (that's important) and she tells people she is an author, too. She is 6.

A big part of why I didn't write and publish anymore was a lack of confidence. I rubbed elbows with authors who are household names now, or at least getting there, and it felt like I would NEVER get there. But Cancelled (2011) never did poorly. I didn't realize back then that I had "it" the online personality and marketing know-how to connect with readers. My problem was I quit. So to anyone in this thread thinking there's no hope, there's no way, I say the only way is to keep writing and to keep working on doing things to connect with readers. I can share my book on social media until I am blue in the face, but 10 readers doing the same thing? That's what makes the book sell well. And that's important no matter if you are KU or wide. The mechanics to success are the same.


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## Anna Drake (Sep 22, 2014)

Joe M said:


> I'm new, a prawn, but for those of you with sage knowledge do you think the benefit of Wide/KU hinges more on your genre than other considerations? For example Annie writes primarily Romance and if most of the readers in KU are looking for Romance it makes a whole lot more sense than another author like Chris who writes primarily sci-fi and horror whose readers are more likely not to be in KU.


This is what I'd like to figure out, too. I think romance readers will flock to KU if the writers shift into the program from Scribd. I think the future looks good for those writers in KU. But what about cozy mysteries? They're what I mostly write. I really don't know how my books will do. For now, though, I'm leaving them in. Fingers crossed.

And I know, that doesn't sound very scientific at all.


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## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

Randall Wood said:


> Control Your Destiny or someone else will.
> 
> Since we're throwing around single word descriptions I'll add another; leverage. With KU you have none. Here's another: Information. With KU you don't know what they are paying per page. You don't know the number of books borrowed. You don't know the formula they are using to calculate your words per page You don't know the size of the pot. You don't know the number of books in KU. You basically don't know anything about the deal you are agreeing to.
> 
> Why people are finding this attractive as a revenue source I have no idea. As a discovery tool yes, but as a deal to base their entire income on? Nope.


Don't get mad at individuals for making a decision based on their circumstances. You do YOUR thing, report YOUR findings, and let the rest make their own call. This is just information.

The other word few mention is OPPORTUNITY. I've spent a lot of time exclusive to Amazon, and my books have done fairly well. That didn't go unnoticed. I'm no Amazon super star by any stretch of the imagination, but opportunities have opened that would never have been possible without Amazon. I'm a day or so away from announcing the biggest opportunity so far...and I can trace the evolution of that opportunity to staying in Select when many of my contemporaries pulled their libraries after Free promos lost their star power. You can play the long game in Amazon, and continue to widen the net very successfully. Just like you can upload to all platforms and succeed brilliantly.

Everyone needs to experiment and figure out what's best for them. I come here to see what everyone is doing and thinking. Frankly, I conducted my wide experiment after reading hundreds, if not thousands, of comments resulting from the arrival of KU 1.0. Lots of folks having success wide and making good arguments for it...I felt it would be imprudent to ignore that avenue. The experiment didn't work out for me on many levels.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

ireaderreview said:


> c) Realize that the more books you make exclusive to Amazon, the more you're accelerating your own demise i.e. you will be less and less necessary the more Amazon's market share grows and the more KU grows.


This is incorrect. Amazon's endgame isn't to destroy their competitors, roar lustily, high five each other, and then leave the business altogether. No. They're creating an empire that will outshine, outconquer, and outlast the Romans. As long as humans like your books and go on to purchase nose hair trimmers, or Tuscan milk, or horse head masks, they'll continue to profit from their partnership with you. Which means that you can continue to profit from it as well.

Suppose that someday Amazon decides to become more efficient by slashing royalties to authors. Suppose further that the competitors have been extinguished. You still have the choice of writing more material...or not. Amazon is always going to be buying content, and if they want that content to continue flowing in, they'll have to pay something for it. We aren't going to be able to keep up with the demands of their customers if we're broke and homeless, or forced back into normal human jobs.

The way folks talk around here, it seems as if it is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single corporation in possession of a good monopoly must put the screws to the little people. I think that's overblown. Amazon occupies a space that is constantly vulnerable to disruption, so competitors will come and competitors will go. What isn't changing is that readers want more content, and they can always read faster than we can write and publish. They won't run out of uses for you just because Apple and Google have been vanquished.

Christ, you know what you should really be worried about? The day the robots replace you. That's coming too, and it's going to be a damn lot worse than anything Amazon does to your royalties in the meantime.



sinapse said:


> There is no such thing as "enough" sales. Be central to getting more sales, and be well.


This is key. Be indispensable to Amazon's customers, and you will be indispensable to Amazon. There won't be a point where it's in their interest to stop rewarding those people.

Unless it's because robots have made human authors useless for any purpose except compostable biomass.

Which would pose much bigger problems.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

"The thing is, I don't see this as a loss of control. KU is a choice." 

Not poking you here Rick, but what choice, besides being in or out, does KU offer you? You put your books in and you're pretty much done making choices. After that its all at Amazons will.

I see everyone looking at this in terms of whats in it for them and very few looking at it from Amazons viewpoint. In ANY good business deal there has to be an acceptable amount of leverage held by both sides, otherwise its really not a deal and more of a one-sided victory.

So whats Amazons end-goal in all of this? I would say its winning market share/secondary sales. KU is a great platform for driving people repeatedly to the store. Once there they are subject to advertising and the chance of them buying things other than books increases exponentially. So if they view KU as an advertising platform (and a way to gain market share) like I think they do they have to determine the cost/benefit ratio. Which leads to Amazon asking these questions;

How do we attract more content to the store?

Once we have that content, what is the least amount we can pay for it without that content leaving the store?

With those questions in mind I think we'll see a payout much like we saw with KUv1. To attract content the first few months it will pay well. (I'll be told I was an idiot and should have jumped in) Then the payout will fluctuate up and down for several months while they look for that sweet spot. Then, after 8-10 months the payout will stabilize while they see if their payout sweet spot holds. After that they will tweek as necessary based on the data they gather. People will look for loopholes and ways to game the system. The speculation on page-count and payout and a million other things will go on and on. A year from now we may do it all over again. Throughout this time Amazon will offer little to no additional information.

Why not?

Because they have no incentive to do so. They already have the cow AND the milk for a price that amounts to "whatever we wish to pay".

I also considered how they view authors like me. If I were Amazon and looking to get me into KU I would write me off. I'm probably what they call out of reach. I have nothing in KU but I do well in sales. On top of that my revenue is split almost 50-50 between Amazon and the other platforms. It would be a bad decision for me to go into KU. As a result its very easy for me to say no to KU. I realize that others out there are not in my boat and KU may be more attractive to them and that's great. But not everyone can be Amanda.

Here's a question for everybody: If the income was exactly the same, would you rather be all in with KU or wide on all platforms?

Whatever their answer to the question was, that's what I think people should be striving for.

Right now the deal I have with Amazon is good. I feel if I went into KU the deal would tip too heavily in Amazons favor and that to me constitutes a bad deal. Its not an emotional decision, its a business one. The numbers simply tell me its a no.

My 2 cents, worth every penny. 

@Steve Where did I get mad?


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Randall Wood said:


> Not poking you here Rick, but what choice, besides being in or out, does KU offer you? You put your books in and you're pretty much done making choices. After that its all at Amazons will.


There are plenty. How will I market those books to take advantage of KU? Will I use my free days? Will I advertise on Amazon? Will I do a countdown deal, or multiple deals? And the biggest of them all - will I stay at the end of my 3 month commitment? I can choose to be a leaf carried away by the current, or I can do what I can to steer myself through those rapids.

Yes, Amazon has a lot of power here, but the same can easily be said of the other stores. iTunes can choose to push you or not. B&N can choose to make sure that nearly everything people see for 3 pages in is all big 6 releases. etc. Either way you slice it, we are at the mercy of any store (save one perhaps we open on our own sites) we sell on to some degree or another.

In my case, I've maybe hit that 50% parity with Amazon revenue once or twice. Most months the other platforms are a pittance comparatively, especially when I have a release. I continue to work at them, I'm far too stubborn to quit. However, I've judged this time period to be a pretty good one to run a KU test. As you said, things are in flux, there's a carrot dangling out there from Amazon to make this work. That, combined with the flakiness of B&N's new site and an overall soft looking month for me on iTunes and Google Play, gives me some incentive to test. As I said before risk/reward.

That Amazon carrot will no doubt get smaller as times goes on. My job as a business owner is to gauge that and act accordingly - either focusing my efforts to keep my slice of the carrot large enough to be worthwhile, or divesting again to find other carrot patches. My focus, as always, has been on the long term. However, I also feel that long term will benefit from the knowledge gained by doing the occasional short-term shake-up.


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## Usedtopostheretoo! (Feb 27, 2011)

You didn't get mad. I gave you an exasperated tone in my head. All good info and discussion...a big part of what I like here. Makes you think, and that leads to the right path.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

Steven Konkoly said:


> You didn't get mad. I gave you an exasperated tone in my head. All good info and discussion...a big part of what I like here. Makes you think, and that leads to the right path.


Ahh, I see. 

(BTW, I have that same hat )


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I think the worries that Amazon will be a monopoly are a little overblown because well, the Internet. There are companies all over the world that sell products and services to customers with just their website. Yes, many have staff that specialize in doing that, but it's not something authors can't learn for themselves. 

Maybe the other places will collapse, maybe not. Blockbuster is no more, but renting movies is still around, just in a different form. CD stores are hard to find, but people still buy CDs online. I think there will always be a balance to strike between new media and innovations, but content is always content and retail business is retail business. 

Readers are way savvier than 2011, many KNOW their devices, how to sideload, how to use apps other than what came default  We are such small entities from a business staff size, it doesn't take a large customer base to make a good living. And that's what all of us are doing when we have mailing lists, you were using Amazon's customer base to cultivate your own sublist. Keep doing that no matter what you use, and come ebook store Armageddon, you'll be fine.  

Unless they kill email and we all communicate via wave messages brain to brain or something.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I really hope I don't still come off as my way is the only way, I really try to NOT sound like that. I try to be as transparent as I can be so that everyone can find where their niche is. I've even written threads here about how you can figure out if there's not enough content to a subniche by looking at the sales rankings of #1, #20, and #100 of the Bestseller lists, the hot new releases lists and how many books they're getting in 30 and 90 days.
> 
> I was a reader for years in JAFF, not a writer. I've only been writing and publishing JAFF for a year, and what a year it has been! 9 original titles, 1 bundle, and 1 translation. I figured out it was just shy of 18,000 books sold at retail prices and over $42,000 in gross revenue. And that was with making a book free at the end of March and raising prices.
> 
> ...


Wow, I had NO idea you had started so recently!   Thank you for sharing so much info here. 

I should probably mention my first experience with Austen-related fiction was when I picked up a book from the library and quite liked it because it seemed like it was set in that era and fairly well written. Only later did I learn it was a retelling of EMMA (which I hadn't previously read). I felt cheated somehow. Also really, really stupid.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Although we can never truly know what is in the hearts of others, especially Amazon, I get the sense that Amazon wants to be both The Everything Store and a publisher. They are really serious about the first goal, and middling serious about the second. Who knows what other goals they have. The first two I mentioned affect us indie publishers and that is what we should be concerned with when we make business decisions.

As The Everything Store, Amazon sees book customers as potential everything customers. They want customers with credit cards and a decent income who will buy books and toasters and refrigerators and other goods so that Amazon becomes the eCommerce version of Walmart. Books are the lost leader that draws the good customer in, gets them to give Amazon their credit card, and then Amazon can market to them all the other things in the store. Ca-Ching.

So books are a mode of marketing the rest of the store to the best customers with disposable income. Indie authors are the cheap trick. We are tools.   And I say that with all sincerity.

We cost practically nothing compared to Amazon's overall revenue. We're a few terabytes of space on a server. We've probably already paid for ourselves many many times over in terms of other goods our readers buy in The Everything Store.

The main course is everything else. We are the canapé on Amazon's plate. 

CHOMP.

Okay, enough with the analogies and metaphors and similes. 

The second point is that Amazon is acting like a publisher. They have publishing imprints. They push their imprint books over and above all the other books in the store. It's like coop in a B&M bookstore. Their imprint books get the prime real estate in the eStore. Indie authors in KDP, and those in KU, are probably also seen as a minor league for Amazon imprints. If you can make it in KU / KDPS or even an indie outside KU, Amazon may tap you on the shoulder and offer you a contract. Their contracts are far better than the legacy publishers, with better terms, as far as I can see. 

Amazon may see KU as a way to gather into Amazon's publishing bosom all the best indies and by best, I mean those who are selling the best. There is no doubt Amazon would like to corner the market in terms of indie publishing. If Amazon imprints can lure away the best selling authors from the legacy publishers, the legacy publishers will go the way of the dinosaur. I would bet that Amazon sees all the really high selling indies and the authors who are with legacy publishers as the prize for its publishing arms. 

KU 2.0 may just succeed in attracting in all those indies who left KU 1.0 as well as any legacy published authors considering going indie or at least, leaving the legacy world.

Just a few things to ponder.


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> KU 2.0 may just succeed in attracting in all those indies who left KU 1.0 as well as any legacy published authors considering going indie or at least, leaving the legacy world.


That is why I think the rate will be at least one cent a page. They need to make the rate large enough to attract authors that write novels. It may go down later, but I think it will stay high for a while until Amazon's goal is achieved.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

"Those who persist in the unsubstantiated belief that Amazon's long term interest is in screwing authors and/or reducing the KU pot seem to not understand that the name of Amazon's game is *growth*. Does Amazon want to encourage the quality writers who can engage and hold the interest of the target consumers Amazon needs to grow? You betcha. The KU pot will grow. Efforts like KU 2.0 to weed out poor quality will continue. These are compatible programs."

I agree. Amazon sells Kindles below cost. They expect to make their money off content. Which would you rather be in, the car business or the gasoline business? Very few trad publishers are offering anything on KU, and none of the big five. KU is an indie-fueled business within Amazon's portfolio. They consider KU as a strategic initiative because hard-core readers that benefit from a $10 a month model are going to be spending a lot of time on Amazon and probably buying other things as well. Going out to the store takes time away from reading. So growing KU is important and the only way they can do that is to make KU more appealing. Long term, I don't see it ever being a platform for trad publishing. Rather than screwing indie authors, I see them increasingly implementing policies that weed out the dreck and reward those who draw more subscribers.


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## fantasy-writer (Dec 12, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> One of the best dreams of mine has already come true. My children call me a writer. And my youngest mimics her Mommy by writing stories that are 1-2 sentences and about 5-10 pages long. With a cover (that's important) and she tells people she is an author, too. She is 6.


This is so adorable. My 6-year-old did the same. He wrote a "book" with a cover. He and his little sister are always asking me when my next book cover will be ready.


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## gorvnice (Dec 29, 2010)

Sela said:


> Amazon may see KU as a way to gather into Amazon's publishing bosom all the best indies and by best, I mean those who are selling the best. There is no doubt Amazon would like to corner the market in terms of indie publishing. If Amazon imprints can lure away the best selling authors from the legacy publishers, the legacy publishers will go the way of the dinosaur. I would bet that Amazon sees all the really high selling indies and the authors who are with legacy publishers as the prize for its publishing arms.
> 
> KU 2.0 may just succeed in attracting in all those indies who left KU 1.0 as well as any legacy published authors considering going indie or at least, leaving the legacy world.
> 
> Just a few things to ponder.


I see your points, but I'm not sure that's what Amazon's actually doing. I've read in a few places that they actually don't pick TOP sellers to sign to their imprints, but actually more "mid-list" type indies who are selling okay, but have a really good product. Probably Amazon can offer them good terms and see a way to tap the market with those authors that they haven't yet tapped themselves?

In any case, I don't regularly see Amazon tapping HUGE indies to come in for an imprint deal.

And some of the biggest indies (like Bella Andre, Deborah Bladon and HM Ward) are distinctly wide and not in KU. Is Amazon trying to lure them back in?

Maybe.

I don't quite know what Amazon's doing, and perhaps you're right. But the picture seems muddier than that to me.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Randall Wood said:


> Control Your Destiny or someone else will.


You're awesome, Randall, let me just get that out of the way. But the problem with the saying "control your destiny" is that you can't on the other retailers, short of being one of the BB chosen ones (which I am not). When I was doing well everywhere, I was anxious because I knew that things were doing to fall off, and I would have zero clue how to get things back up. I've even asked the board how to keep things up, and all I was ever told was vaguely to "market specifically to the individual platforms." How? How do we find readers at the other retailers if those retailers don't promote us or we cannot get a BB ad? Do we run Freebooksy, My Romance Reads, Booksends and Bookgorilla ads? Nope, these ads only work for Amazon. How about ENT? Leave aside the fact that ENT is almost as tough to get as a BB, but I have found that even ENT barely moves the needle on non-Amazon platforms. So, how do we find readers? I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to that question. Sure, it would be great if Apple would feature me at least every other month, and Kobo would feature my first in series on a regular basis, and Nook...I have no clue what to do there, or Google Play. Apple, especially, because I found that I can charge higher prices there, and the read-through rate was phenomenal. But hoping that you can be featured isn't what I call controlling my destiny.

Now, the real question is WHY ads don't work on these platform. After all, we have to give these advertising sites links to Apple, Nook, etc. - so why is that these ads don't work? I can't figure that one out. If I could have cracked that conundrum, I would have stayed wide.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

It just depends on what your goal is. Right now I honestly check my sales on d2d more often than I check Amazon sales because my biggest current goal is to work my way up to a few thousand grand with the other sites combined. And once I get that many readers there won't be a deal Amazon could tempt me with to go exclusive unless I was guaranteed to make enough to retire. I think going in and out of KU is sort of playing with the readers. People on BN start reading an author and the next day all their stories are gone. The same on Amazon. Subscribers start reading an author and the next day none of it is available in KU. We're sort of trying their patience and they can be fickle. If Ku doesn't work out, maybe the BN readers will welcome an author back, or maybe they've moved on to another. I also think some authors don't realize some KU readers are there to save money and that's it. When you take your book out of KU some will buy it and some will not. So it isn't as though you're keeping all your readers bouncing in and out.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm sorry Annie but you are only thinking about book specific advertising. Advertising is advertising. I sold many books by buying advertising on blogs through blogads. I sold books buying advertising through Facebook, where you CAN target Nook and iBooks or iPhone users with keywords and purchase behavior (yes, you can only advertise to people who have shared they've bought a book in their Facebook feed). Adwords is another way to advertise. You can also reach out to HARO and other places to raise awareness about your writing by getting articles published places. I've had features on military wife groups about what my career is because I can pack it up and take it with me. Advertising is a much bigger scope than buying ads on one niche of sites.

I grew my outside earnings to over 20% of my total income in the last 6 months without a Bookbub (I have my first bookbub tomorrow on my JAFF.). When I did this morning's sales, I sold $10 of book on iBooks in one day and $30 worth on Google. Just in a DAY. That's not everyday, but it does add up. I very clearly remember the days of making $10 a month. Total. I have put all of my chess pieces in position and tomorrow is a Bookbub and Tuesday is a feature by Apple. If this doesn't rocket ship to the moon, then I'll cry uncle. 

Yeah, it's not easy. But only going the way of book blogs and mailing lists is not going to work because they made most of their money on Amazon Affiliate earnings. The other places don't have a robust affiliate program (Well Apple just overhauled theirs). But book buyers live all over on the Internet, not just on the book blogs.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

brkingsolver said:


> Very few trad publishers are offering anything on KU, and none of the big five. KU is an indie-fueled business within Amazon's portfolio.


I wish there was an easy way to determine which publishers are in KU and with how many titles. A quick glance showed me that Mariner (division of HMH) has 1200 titles in KU and Open Road Media has about 4200. Small compared to the million+ titles available through KU, but a chunk. I'm inclined to agree that Amazon's own imprints and indies make up the bulk of KU fiction titles. I'm not so sure about non-fiction (haven't bothered to do enough of a dive to look).


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I'm sorry Annie but you are only thinking about book specific advertising. Advertising is advertising. I sold many books by buying advertising on blogs through blogads. I sold books buying advertising through Facebook, where you CAN target Nook and iBooks or iPhone users with keywords and purchase behavior (yes, you can only advertise to people who have shared they've bought a book in their Facebook feed). Adwords is another way to advertise. You can also reach out to HARO and other places to raise awareness about your writing by getting articles published places. I've had features on military wife groups about what my career is because I can pack it up and take it with me. Advertising is a much bigger scope than buying ads on one niche of sites.
> 
> I grew my outside earnings to over 20% of my total income in the last 6 months without a Bookbub (I have my first bookbub tomorrow on my JAFF.). When I did this morning's sales, I sold $10 of book on iBooks in one day and $30 worth on Google. Just in a DAY. That's not everyday, but it does add up. I very clearly remember the days of making $10 a month. Total. I have put all of my chess pieces in position and tomorrow is a Bookbub and Tuesday is a feature by Apple. If this doesn't rocket ship to the moon, then I'll cry uncle.
> 
> Yeah, it's not easy. But only going the way of book blogs and mailing lists is not going to work because they made most of their money on Amazon Affiliate earnings. The other places don't have a robust affiliate program (Well Apple just overhauled theirs). But book buyers live all over on the Internet, not just on the book blogs.


Hey, good luck with the Apple feature! Those are DYNAMITE, let me tell you!

What you're saying about Facebook is resonating with me. I'm going to sit down and really take some time with Mark Dawson's course on Facebook ads. It's very detailed, like 16 hours long. I'm going to immerse myself in that after I get my next WIP done. If I can master that, then I would possibly feel confident enough to go wide again once the 90 days are up, assuming that I'm not just running the table at Amazon by then (I don't think that I will be, but one never knows). I do have to get better at marketing. I've just been so busy writing books that I just haven't sat down to really figure it all out. That might be what I do for the next month or so, as opposed to getting right down to write something else. I know, I know, I should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, but I have problems with that. For some reason, it's not easy for me to market for two hours and day and write for three. If I'm studying marketing, I don't want to write, and vice versa. I guess my brain is too compartmentalized or something.

But, yeah, I know what you're saying, and it's just a matter of my mastering marketing. Once I can do that, I might feel more confident being wide. But I somehow think that Nook might not be around when my KU term is up. Just a hunch.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

gorvnice said:


> I see your points, but I'm not sure that's what Amazon's actually doing. I've read in a few places that they actually don't pick TOP sellers to sign to their imprints, but actually more "mid-list" type indies who are selling okay, but have a really good product. Probably Amazon can offer them good terms and see a way to tap the market with those authors that they haven't yet tapped themselves?
> 
> In any case, I don't regularly see Amazon tapping HUGE indies to come in for an imprint deal.
> 
> ...


I think you're right, upon reflection. Perhaps the really high selling indies can take care of themselves and still net Amazon a lot of ca-ching. It's the mid list authors that sell well but are not mega sellers that go into Amazon imprints. Perhaps Amazon is testing out how their marketing works and in the future may try to snag the bigger fish or the mid list authors from legacy publishing.

I can't see that Bladon or Ward or Andre would go into KU 2.0. They are doing too well in wide distribution. However, the new Bladon, Ward and Andre, and there will be new ones come along, may be discovered and nurtured in Amazon's programs. If those programs and imprints are attractive enough, they may stay instead of going wide.

When I see of how well Amanda is selling, I think she is an example of how Amazon could keep the really high selling authors with potential to go mega in KU and exclusive. If it is able to do that over the long term, then the legacy publishers will be limited to literary fiction and celebrity drivel.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

For curiosity's sake, I looked at my pen name numbers. I started it in October and tossed everything in Select. My main name numbers are a force unto themself so I wanted to look at just the pen name. I used the .0057 figure and rounded up and down slightly because it was too much work otherwise. This is a name that has no ties to my main name and one ad (ENT) for its entire run. If I crunch the numbers, that pen name should earn about $13,000 by itself for the month. You can argue all you want that I can't have an opinion because my main name is too big. I get that. My pen name is entirely different and it is a growing process. It has never been an All-Star and its author rank hovers between 1,500-3,000 generally. I've got a two-pronged approach in late summer and through fall to really launch it, and I will start doing advertising in the fall (a year after starting it). When I compare earnings just for the pen name between KU1 and KU2 I come up with an overall increase of $2,000 for July from May. We don't have June numbers yet, so it was the easiest comparison. Annie is making the best business decision she knows how for her business. She should be allowed to do that without some people telling her how she's handling her business wrong. Sharing numbers is great. You can do that and share your opinion without telling anyone "if you don't do it my way, you're doing it wrong." We are all constantly learning here. I like sharing information. I don't think you need to tell Annie her business to do it. She's the one making a decision. No one else has any say in her business.


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## Amity Lassiter (Nov 28, 2014)

anniejocoby said:


> Okay, this is apostasy for me. Anybody who has read my posts know that I was (was) the biggest advocate for being wide. And I've done well wide. I made $10,000 in one month on Apple. I made five figures for many months in a row, and only 40% of that was Amazon. Yet I made the decision for my business to go all-in. Might I regret that decision? Maybe. Maybe I will pull out in 90 days, my tail tucked between my legs. I hope not.
> 
> Anyhow, here are my reasons for doing this.
> 
> ...


I haven't read through the thread yet, but I'm going to because it has definite value to me as I am adding more books to my backlist. But I wanted to pop in here and say, before I forgot, that I LOVE your new covers, Annie.


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## Cege Smith (Dec 11, 2011)

Julianna said:


> Has paranormal/horror been a profitable genre for you so far?


I can't complain- two of the three series earned out their production costs long ago and continue to demonstrate solid performance whenever I put them out on promo. I think the key though was similar to other genres- write in a series and build the fan base over time.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

anniejocoby said:


> You're awesome, Randall, let me just get that out of the way. But the problem with the saying "control your destiny" is that you can't on the other retailers, short of being one of the BB chosen ones (which I am not). When I was doing well everywhere, I was anxious because I knew that things were doing to fall off, and I would have zero clue how to get things back up. I've even asked the board how to keep things up, and all I was ever told was vaguely to "market specifically to the individual platforms." How? How do we find readers at the other retailers if those retailers don't promote us or we cannot get a BB ad? Do we run Freebooksy, My Romance Reads, Booksends and Bookgorilla ads? Nope, these ads only work for Amazon. How about ENT? Leave aside the fact that ENT is almost as tough to get as a BB, but I have found that even ENT barely moves the needle on non-Amazon platforms. So, how do we find readers? I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to that question. Sure, it would be great if Apple would feature me at least every other month, and Kobo would feature my first in series on a regular basis, and Nook...I have no clue what to do there, or Google Play. Apple, especially, because I found that I can charge higher prices there, and the read-through rate was phenomenal. But hoping that you can be featured isn't what I call controlling my destiny.
> 
> Now, the real question is WHY ads don't work on these platform. After all, we have to give these advertising sites links to Apple, Nook, etc. - so why is that these ads don't work? I can't figure that one out. If I could have cracked that conundrum, I would have stayed wide.


Hey Annie!

I was really surprised to see you doing this as you're one of the ones that I felt was really embracing the go-wide movement. I mirrored many of the things you were doing and its paid off very well. (thank you-thank you) So I was quite shocked when you started this thread.

Then I remembered that you write romance and I think that may be the kicker.

My thriller readers are not as voracious as your romance readers (from what info I have) so your business is probably more sensitive to changes than mine. KU2 may be just the thing for you right now, I don't know, but fortune favors the bold someone said.  I'll be watching for your follow-ups as I know they'll be full of good info and observations. I really hope it works for you.

As for the marketing thing I will second everything Elizabeth said. The things you mentioned are what I call cluster bomb marketing. I think you need to start using smart bombs. Less Billboards and more targeted emails, facebook, blog ads, and readers groups. Then you can tailor your ads and focus on specific platforms. I stopped asking "How many people will see this ad?" and gave my marketing a rethink. "Will this build word-of-mouth" is my new go-to question. Maybe start with something as simple as asking your readers to do so in the back matter? (you already know that though don't you? I'll shut up now)

Good to see you again!

@Elizabeth I don't think NOOK is in as bad shape as everyone wants to think. I'm still growing there and see upticks with response to (very few) ads. They are still my no2 platform with Apple and Google close behind. But YMMV. BTW, training a Dragon next week and its your frickin fault!


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

sinapse said:


> A brief word to those who think Google or Apple or some other company will be a serious competitor to Amazon:
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> ...


Apple did make a play for the ebook business (by colluding the Big 5/6 on agency pricing), so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Apple might make another play for ebook market share. Yeah, they're mostly about devices, but they have a long record of success in digital music sales and were in the vanguard there. They *might* feel the urge to step up to the plate with this newer form of digital content. They are making some efforts, especially compared to Google. I mean, people do have Apple reps, but I yet to hear someone mention having a Google rep. Speaking personally, Apple is the only platform where my sales are growing right now -- and they shouldn't be growing anywhere, since I last released a book in December. I've heard others say Apple is improving for them. So ... maybe.

All that said, I think you're probably right, sinapse.

You're also right that we don't *know* Amazon would tighten the screws on us if they gain a hugely dominant market share. Before the agency-pricing debacle, they had something like 90% market share, and the treatment of authors then was largely as it is now. Then again, we do have the example of Amazon's move from 35% to 70% royalties in response to Apple. That's a case where the presence of competition clearly made Amazon sweeten its offer. So while we don't know that Amazon will lower royalties or require exclusivity in response to market dominance, we also don't know that they won't. I think it's safe to say there's a _risk_ they will, though not a certainty.

Indie ebooks are a small but not a meaningless part of the Amazon sales pie. This Forbes article estimates that books still accounted for 7% of Amazon revenue in February 2014. It's hard to say what percentage of Amazon's book sales are ebooks. The AAP says ebooks accounted for almost 22% of book revenue in 2015, but of course many Amazon ebooks lack ISBNs and are not tracked, and the AAP says books distributed through subscription services are not included in its estimate. And ebook sales on Amazon are probably higher than they are in the book market over all. This article suggests ebooks may account for one-third of the pie overall, when indie books are counted; since we're looking just at Amazon, the indie-ebook king, I'm going to bump it up to 40%. Looking at best-sellers only, Author Earnings estimates that about 20% of Amazon's ebook sales revenue comes from indie books (see Fig. 20). So, 40% of 7% is 2.8%. Twenty percent of 2.8% is .56%. This figure is no doubt inaccurate, but hopefully it's in the ballpark. (I am not a Math Person.)

Half a percent may not sound like much, but Amazon's revenues are huge, so this is not an insignificant amount of money, and as someone pointed out upthread, Amazon's average profit margin is extremely low (averaging .57% over the last five years).

There are a couple ways to look at this picture: 1) Indie publishers are not insignificant to Amazon, and the company probably makes a higher profit percentage off sales of our products than they do off TVs and comforters and diapers, which have to be warehoused and shipped. Therefore, we have a little power, and Amazon will want to keep us happy. We're a wee little golden goose, and they'll want to keep us healthy and laying. 2) In an ultra-lean company where costs are very hard to lower, we represent a relatively juicy category of vendors that can be squeezed for higher profits without serious repercussions because we have nowhere else to go. One day, the temptation to squeeze us will win out.

Will No. 1 or No. 2 be the case? Or perhaps some combination? There's really no way to know. But I think we should be doing what we can to push Amazon toward No. 1. How can we do that? Well, there's Gumroad and other direct sales techniques. (See EAW's excellent thread from yesterday.) If we can say to Amazon, "Hey, I can move a substantial portion of my sales off Amazon by undercutting Amazon's price while making as much or more profit through direct sales," that might give the company a teensy-weensy pause. Building an independent mailing list and cultivating direct contact with readers also seems like an important part of the puzzle. And those of us who feel able to offer some books on Apple should try to steer traffic that way as best we can, as that company probably represents the most credible competition to Amazon. By way of example, I distribute through both D2D and Smashwords, but I use D2D only for Apple, so that that copy of my books can include dedicated Apple links to the next in series. I want to keep Apple sales on Apple as much as I can. I also want my books on Scribd, Oyster, and so forth, but I use Smashwords to reach those.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Jim Johnson said:


> I wish there was an easy way to determine which publishers are in KU and with how many titles. A quick glance showed me that Mariner (division of HMH) has 1200 titles in KU and Open Road Media has about 4200. Small compared to the million+ titles available through KU, but a chunk. I'm inclined to agree that Amazon's own imprints and indies make up the bulk of KU fiction titles. I'm not so sure about non-fiction (haven't bothered to do enough of a dive to look).


Searching and browsing in KU really is a pain. I keep trying, but end up just creating wishlist over time from reader recommendations and I go to that wishlist from my kindle, not really browsing the KU store.

I did search for Sourcebooks and they have 775 titles in it and I get 1019 results for Kensington although some are titles with that in it and some authors. I am hoping for some more publishers in the future.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

Sela said:


> I think you're right, upon reflection. Perhaps the really high selling indies can take care of themselves and still net Amazon a lot of ca-ching. It's the mid list authors that sell well but are not mega sellers that go into Amazon imprints. Perhaps Amazon is testing out how their marketing works and in the future may try to snag the bigger fish or the mid list authors from legacy publishing.


Take a look at the authors that Amazon has signed through their Kindle Scout program. They're not mining new talent, just locking up authors who already have an audience and keeping them out of the clutches of the trad publishers.


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## Julianna (Jun 28, 2015)

RKC said:


> I've been saying this all along.
> 
> I'm in KU with one series. I get enough reads to justify staying in, and also enough emails from KU members who go on to actually purchase my other non-KU books. KU is a separate platform in itself. At least that's how I think of it. So it makes some sense to put a series or two in there.
> 
> ...


I think your strategy is spot on.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Randall Wood said:


> Hey Annie!
> 
> I was really surprised to see you doing this as you're one of the ones that I felt was really embracing the go-wide movement. I mirrored many of the things you were doing and its paid off very well. (thank you-thank you) So I was quite shocked when you started this thread.
> 
> ...


Good to see you too! I know what your saying, too, believe me. I went back and forth with this decision. One minute I'd be like "I'm doing it!!!!" The next I was like "no, no, stay the course!" Then I finally just said - "eh, what do I have to lose anymore?" Unfortunately, things were sliding into the ditch pretty quickly. That happens when you don't know how to market very well. I admit that's my Achilles Heel. But, as I was telling EAW, it's something that I would like to learn better. I figure that, since I go a little bit nuts when I write WIPs back to back, instead of getting right back to writing, I should take some time just to learn marketing. Social media marketing, and Internet marketing.

I will say, though, that, after just a few days, the ship is starting to right just a bit. Do I foresee myself making five figures monthly in KU right away? No, but I think that I can get there. We'll see how my new series does when it's heavily promoted later on this month.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Amity Lassiter said:


> I haven't read through the thread yet, but I'm going to because it has definite value to me as I am adding more books to my backlist. But I wanted to pop in here and say, before I forgot, that I LOVE your new covers, Annie.


Aw, thanks!!!!!  I like 'em too!


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with going into a relationship with your eyes wide open.  I enter my relationship with the 'Zon using a simple philosophy "Amazon is not my friend".  They are a business and their first goal is to be successful. If their success aligns with my goals then hooray a mutually satisfying partnership has been created. 

But I'm not going to be so naive as to think that will always be the case.  Amazon will change KU again - that's a given. The next change may be beneficial to me but not to others. Or it may mean a total disaster for me but be a huge boon to someone else. 

But at some point all of us must keep in mind we are dealing with a business and not our bestie. Amazon will make course corrections as the landscape changes. What we all should've learned form the shift to KU2 is that we must be vigilant and ready to adapt. 

For now putting longer works into Amazon makes perfect sense. I'm certainly not going to criticize anyone who decides to do it, because KU2 is going to create some big winners.  

But will that be the case next year? Or the year after that?


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## Mxz (Jan 17, 2015)

Good luck!



Marian said:


> How can we make Apple see the potential in the book business? They have the most elegant products--the best computers, iPhones, etc. They could make an ereader that would outshine anything Amazon could produce. They have an impeccable track record, and the money and engineering know-how to do it. Maybe it's up to us to encourage them. If we don't, we might find ourselves in the position where we are at the mercy of one powerful vendor.


That's what I was wondering. Why haven't they tried? Is it a money issue? They have the programmers and web designers to do it. All they need to do is bring the readers to the authors instead of having the authors bring the readers to them. Changing their site so categories are more plentiful and easier to browse would be a good first step. They also need to allow indies to be seen at least in the "New Releases" section. A site that doesn't involve using the iTunes program would also make things a lot easier. (I like to open multiple windows)

To me, both Apple and B&N's problems stem from ease of use for the reader to find books from both well known and new authors (passively for the most part. Why can I not find books in the categories I put them in?). Amazon has that skill down.


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## bberntson (Oct 24, 2013)

I've been pondering going wide, but I felt like I was really getting some traction before all the changes, and I'm not sure I want to upset that at all.  My author ranking was getting higher and higher, and I was doing better.  It still is with plenty of promos, so I think I might at least wait it out a few more months and see what happens at least.  Thanks, Annie, for the post.  I think you might have answered a questions I've had.  I wish you the best of luck!


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I'll be definitely interested in how this develops. I've been in a similar situation with Apple - got a big push from them in Dec last year and they were up to 80% of my income some months. Then my Apple income dived. I did a genre promo with them a while back and that seemed to kill my sales with them. Not sure if it was directly related or just coincidence. My income has evened out now because I've released a new series -- so sales of the new books have taken up the slack of my falling income from Apple.


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## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> Apple did make a play for the ebook business (by colluding the Big 5/6 on agency pricing), so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that Apple might make another play for ebook market share. Yeah, they're mostly about devices, but they have a long record of success in digital music sales and were in the vanguard there. They *might* feel the urge to step up to the plate with this newer form of digital content. They are making some efforts, especially compared to Google. I mean, people do have Apple reps, but I yet to hear someone mention having a Google rep. Speaking personally, Apple is the only platform where my sales are growing right now -- and they shouldn't be growing anywhere, since I last released a book in December. I've heard others say Apple is improving for them. So ... maybe.


Just a side note - I've had two Google reps that I could email directly. Now they've moved to a team email.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

I was just thinking, if Oyster or Scribd was bought out by Apple or Google it would be an amazing thing. Something I've been noticing when I visit coffee shops is people reading ebooks on their large phones, or on tablets--not on their Kindles. They might stay loyal to the company that sold them those devices.

(Not that I would read over anyone's shoulder ... errr ... okay, yes, I would. Can't help it!)


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

C. Gockel said:


> I was just thinking, if Oyster or Scribd was bought out by Apple or Google it would be an amazing thing.


No one is going to touch Scribd with a ten-foot pole now. The damage is done to their brand. I don't think it can be undone. No subscription service is going to work on a large scale with full royalties, so that has to be taken into account. I think Apple will eventually unveil their own subscription service. Google still feels like they're dabbling. I think they could be a force if they get their stuff together, but they haven't yet. I hang know a ton of readers and even the younger ones aren't using Google.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

You guys have convinced me to move my contemporary romance series into Select. (It just went wide 2 days before the big announcement, and has made a whole two sales on the other vendors as of today.)

How long does it take for the other sites to remove the books? Kobo already took them down, but I have to wait on the others. If Apple is as slow to remove as they are to publish, I've got a couple weeks...

My other stuff is staying wide because I've found that it does better. Although, they might do better in KU since they're mostly novels. My main complaint was that I had a hard time getting borrows in the first place. I would average 0-3 a day unless I had a big promo, and even then, the numbers weren't impressive, and the long-tail was short. We'll see how the contemporary romance goes with the new KENP. Then, and only then, I *might* consider Select for some other books. Even so, I'll be pretty hard pressed to leave Kobo with the recent traction I've gained. I was doing well on Apple for a while, but that's been sliding.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Stacy Claflin said:


> How long does it take for the other sites to remove the books? Kobo already took them down, but I have to wait on the others. If Apple is as slow to remove as they are to publish, I've got a couple weeks...


Apple delisted my books within a few hours. Nook actually took the longest to take my books down.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Apple delisted my books within a few hours. Nook actually took the longest to take my books down.


Thank you. Why does that not surprise about Nook?


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## DashaGLogan (Jan 30, 2014)

I read on my iphone all the time and in bed I read on my ipad. I don't even own a kindle.
The problem is really the shopping experience. 
I just went wide with "Jet Set Chronicles" and they're up on Itunes, but you can only find them by searching for the title ---  there's no "new titles" section (strangely enough, there is such a thing in the German Itunes Store... )

As long as Apple won't change the shopping experience and handle books like movies and music, they won't be a competetion.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> No one is going to touch Scribd with a ten-foot pole now. The damage is done to their brand. I don't think it can be undone. No subscription service is going to work on a large scale with full royalties, so that has to be taken into account. I think Apple will eventually unveil their own subscription service. Google still feels like they're dabbling. I think they could be a force if they get their stuff together, but they haven't yet. I hang know a ton of readers and even the younger ones aren't using Google.


I think you are misunderstanding where Scribd is heading. They brought indies on board (first Smashwords, then others) to give them number bulk, but they are now a drain on their finances. Their recommendation engine always pushed trade books of a more literary / mainstream fiction nature. Why? Presumably because trade presses pay for those recommendations. Indie authors who go wide take the details of their relationship with Scribd and see that as the Scribd business model. Their primary model is like a physical bookstore. Higher prices to the trade presses, who pay for higher visibility. Scribd is not history, but indie authors having access to Scribd may be.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

I wish you mega success Annie.  Very bold move and I really hope it pays off for you.

I've just today put another serial into KU.  I have one in already that's doing ok, but it's making more $$ than it ever did even wide for the past two years.  So I'm hoping that KU does the same thing for my next serial, which was out wide for a long time and did nothing.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

DashaGLogan said:


> I read on my iphone all the time and in bed I read on my ipad. I don't even own a kindle.
> The problem is really the shopping experience.
> I just went wide with "Jet Set Chronicles" and they're up on Itunes, but you can only find them by searching for the title --- there's no "new titles" section (strangely enough, there is such a thing in the German Itunes Store... )
> 
> As long as Apple won't change the shopping experience and handle books like movies and music, they won't be a competetion.


Are they still promoting the first free in series? That was when my sales really took off there. I'm beginning to think I might need another perma-free (or temp-free) to push my suspense series.


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## DashaGLogan (Jan 30, 2014)

Stacy Claflin said:


> Are they still promoting the first free in series? That was when my sales really took off there. I'm beginning to think I might need another perma-free (or temp-free) to push my suspense series.


Can't find it at a first glance, which means, nobody can...
So I guess they're not really doing it.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I think we're all overthinking how brand-loyal readers are. People I know have a range of devices and apps they use to read. I have a Kobo Touch, but I also Kobo and Kindle apps on a Google tablet. Which means I can get the book pretty much anywhere,.

The trick is not to steer people to a certain retailer. It is to make them want to read our books in the first place.

I'm using:

First free in series and promos
Mailing lists and giveaways
Twitter (I did Mark Dawson's Facebook thing, but it was taking waaaayyyy too much time away from writing)

Think away from the Amazon vs. other retailers divide, but think about what you can do to make your key books available as attractively as possible to your audience.


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## markhealy (Jun 5, 2014)

I've been considering going wide for my Silent Earth series and making the first book permafree, but it's actually begun to do quite well on Amazon in the past few months.  Then I ran a three day free promo last weekend on Select (in conjunction with Countdown on the other two books), and without any kind of additional promo, I shifted 2k units and almost hit the top 100 free.  I'm pretty happy with that.  I can essentially run 2 or 3 day free promos every six weeks in Select to give the first book a regular bump, and even though results won't always match this promo it's still not a bad compromise to going permafree.

In addition, if the KU payout is anywhere near the amount speculated, I'll be earning more from borrows than from sales at the current rate.  For those reasons I think I'll be sticking with KU for the time being.

Hope it works out for you Annie.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

**********


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Tricia O' said:


> Just a side note - I've had two Google reps that I could email directly. Now they've moved to a team email.


Interesting ... thanks!


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## JessHayek69 (Jul 4, 2015)

Obvious big benefits of KU:

1)5 free promo days every 90 days
2)Borrows

Is there a third major benefit?


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Kobo distributes through about a dozen affiliate stores. Just because it's down from Kobo proper doesn't mean it's down from the entire Kobo system. FNAC in France is notorious for disregarding delisting requests. We have titles still up under our Steel Magnolia account a month after requesting removal. These are titles we've reverted rights back to the author on, not just ones we removed to put into Select. I know other times when FNAC haven't removed delisted books for months. Other authors have had to send DMCAs. I'm asking the KWL folk to pre-emptively remove all our remaining titles from FNAC distribution because they are such a pain.
> 
> Apple direct is bunny-quick in delisting. No idea if they take longer going through an aggregator.


Good to know. Thanks! Apple through D2D already removed my books. At least I don't have to wait for Scribd!


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Where do I check out the Marks Course?


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

CASD57 said:


> Where do I check out the Marks Course?


It's closed now, but he has some free videos you can watch at www.selfpublishingformula.com/


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## CASD57 (May 3, 2014)

Thanks


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## KBDeni (Feb 18, 2015)

From a new author's standpoint, who's just studying everyone else's reaction, it seems that the ideal strategy would be to have some books in KU, but a few wide. Assuming you have enough books to do so, anyway. If you go all in, it'd still be nice to have a back up plan to go wide. It IS the internet. Amazon is strong now, but eventually someone will create a site that does the same thing but better with new technology. Right now, Amazon is top dog.

KU2 seems to be doing well for novelists, assuming everyone is right about the pay rate. If people aren't making nearly as much with other vendors as they are with amazon, then I can understand why they would go all in. Also, from what I've seen, it's much easier to upload books to one vendor than it is to keep up with 5. 

Now, as for apple and google growing because they are default on devices? I don't think that's as much of a problem as people think. I'm likely a little young compared to some of the people here (lower 20s) but most people I know who are my age have the kindle app on everything. I mainly use my iPad and Android phone for reading, but I always buy my books from the amazon store. The only way Google or Apple will get me as a customer(for books) is if they increase their library to nearly the same size as amazon, and make shopping for books easier on their platforms. The device doesn't matter.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> One of the best dreams of mine has already come true. My children call me a writer. And my youngest mimics her Mommy by writing stories that are 1-2 sentences and about 5-10 pages long. With a cover (that's important) and she tells people she is an author, too. She is 6.


I most definitely went "SQUEE!" when I read this.  That is true awesomeness.


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

KU2 reminds me of a test they did in my psychology class in college.  We threw paper balls at a trash can to see how many we could get in.  Then the professor put up a barrier so we couldn't see if we were getting anything in the trash can.  So our performance went down since there wasn't any feedback.

That is the difference between KU1 and KU2.  We got feedback in KU1, but we don't get feedback in KU2.


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## MissingAlaska (Apr 28, 2014)

Mitns said:


> Good luck!
> 
> That's what I was wondering. Why haven't they tried? Is it a money issue? They have the programmers and web designers to do it. All they need to do is bring the readers to the authors instead of having the authors bring the readers to them. Changing their site so categories are more plentiful and easier to browse would be a good first step. They also need to allow indies to be seen at least in the "New Releases" section. A site that doesn't involve using the iTunes program would also make things a lot easier. (I like to open multiple windows)
> 
> To me, both Apple and B&N's problems stem from ease of use for the reader to find books from both well known and new authors (passively for the most part. Why can I not find books in the categories I put them in?). Amazon has that skill down.


A while back, a number of indies wrote a letter to Amazon suggesting some changes. They seemed to have listened - resulting in pre-orders among other improvements.

I wonder if it's time to write a collective email to Apple and say "DO THIS" and you can compete with Amazon?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

L C Storm said:


> KU2 reminds me of a test they did in my psychology class in college. We threw paper balls at a trash can to see how many we could get in. Then the professor put up a barrier so we couldn't see if we were getting anything in the trash can. So our performance went down since there wasn't any feedback.
> 
> That is the difference between KU1 and KU2. We got feedback in KU1, but we don't get feedback in KU2.


You get feedback. You know how many pages are read each day. You just don't have a baseline yet. We didn't have a baseline for KU1 in the beginning either. I don't see how you can switch from absolutely loving KU2 to hating it in less than 24 hours. Yesterday you were singing its virtues.


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## R. M. Webb (Jul 24, 2014)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> You get feedback. You know how many pages are read each day. You just don't have a baseline yet. We didn't have a baseline for KU1 in the beginning either.


This was my thought exactly. The way the you get feedback has changed forms, that's all. In the past it was borrows read to 10%, now it's pages read. Either way, there's a graph that moves or doesn't move and income for any given month is based on speculation until halfway through the next month.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I can totally see your reasoning, Annie, and I don't blame you one bit. The way these ad places are getting, with so many people applying for so few slots, the rising prices and the review requirements, very few people are fortunate enough to get in.

I don't think B & N is in good shape right now, and though I'd gotten some nice sales through them, they are failing. They aren't even trying to compete with Amazon, which is insane.

I think for those with longer works that get a solid read-through rate, KU can still be a huge money-maker. For those of us with short stories, it might still be used as a loss-leader (my intention, at least after the program settles down) to pull readers into longer works, or things on other outlets.



> The biggest thing I want to impart, though, is this - you have to pivot. When it's time to pivot, it's time to pivot. I agonized over this decision, believe me. It's a big risk. But sometimes you have to take risks to shake things up.


Yes. Yes. Yes. The one thing we all should have learned on our indie journey is that nothing stays the same. Everything is in constant flux, and the successful writers will be those who can roll with it, adapt and change.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

L C Storm said:


> KU2 reminds me of a test they did in my psychology class in college. We threw paper balls at a trash can to see how many we could get in. Then the professor put up a barrier so we couldn't see if we were getting anything in the trash can. So our performance went down since there wasn't any feedback.
> 
> That is the difference between KU1 and KU2. We got feedback in KU1, but we don't get feedback in KU2.


The only feedback that matters is monthly income. The song remains the same.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

R. M. Webb said:


> This was my thought exactly. The way the you get feedback has changed forms, that's all. In the past it was borrows read to 10%, now it's pages read. Either way, there's a graph that moves or doesn't move and income for any given month is based on speculation until halfway through the next month.


"based on speculation" Sorry, I get what you're saying but that's funny.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Randall Wood said:


> "based on speculation" Sorry, I get what you're saying but that's funny.


It was always a baseline on speculation. Nothing has changed on that front. My monthly projections always managed to be pretty dang close to that speculation, so I'm not complaining.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Marian said:


> How can we make Apple see the potential in the book business? They have the most elegant products--the best computers, iPhones, etc. They could make an ereader that would outshine anything Amazon could produce. They have an impeccable track record, and the money and engineering know-how to do it. Maybe it's up to us to encourage them. If we don't, we might find ourselves in the position where we are at the mercy of one powerful vendor.


*First, I will give you the bad news:*

Quoting Steve Jobs from about 20 years ago: "Apple is a hardware company." They are first and foremost focused on creating and selling hardware: computers, phones, and other technologies. Second to this is creating the software necessary to ensure these hardware products operate as transparently as possible to the user. Third, is the support of products and services that promote the sales of the hardware products.

The mobile phone industry is worth $1.5 trillion. The automotive industry is worth nearly $1 trillion. It's no surprise that Apple is putting so much energy into both those sectors, including some mysterious automotive project that is vacuuming up the internal talent at Apple. Apple is worth roughly $800 billion. Their net profit last year was roughly $225 billion.

The last, solid number I got from a couple years ago was Apple made between $50-$55 million on ebook sales.

Of course it is better now than it was then, but that number wouldn't even cover the salaries of Apple's executive officers. Apple makes more money _per day_ than they made in ebook sales for all of last year. It's pretty obvious that ebooks sales have about as low priority to Apple as a company as it can get. If Apple up and pulled the plug on ebook sales today, they wouldn't even notice any change in their bottom line. With numbers like those, one can assume that rolls of toilet paper in the executive washroom have a higher value than ebooks do at Apple.

*Now the good news:*

The global publishing industry is expected to grow to be worth more than $273 billion by 2016. The new year is less than six months away.

While unit sales of ebooks vs. sales of print books run about 30%-35%, the profit made on ebooks is significantly higher. The development costs of a manuscript is unchanged and therefore doesn't need to be considered. But once the book is sent to publishing, an ebook incurs no further costs. Print books have production costs for materials, handling, distribution, storage, and disposal. An ebook is a file on a server and that file is often smaller than the image file for its cover. One can store all the ebooks currently available in the world on just a couple of computer hard drives and make them available through a simple web site.

In other words, selling ebooks incurs such low production costs that those costs are negligible, to the point where the profit margin exceeds roughly 98%. Selling ebooks is akin to printing money.

While unit sales of ebooks may hover around one-third of print books, the profit made on those ebook sales is much higher. So, ebooks account for a much larger chunk of that $273 billion. It may be closer to a 50/50 split at least in terms of monetary sales. It may even be possible that ebooks are making more money than print books. (I'm speculating here, I don't have hard numbers on sales other than what I've mentioned above.)

Why do you think Amazon is fighting so hard to get indie authors to go exclusive with them? Why do you think Amazon is so willing to pump $11 million (and growing) each month in a fund to encourage authors to go exclusive allow readers to borrow books? It's because they are making a shitload of money on ebooks-more than people are aware. And the growth potential in ebooks is enormous.

Apple is not blind to this. Not in the least. Reading ebooks is one of the top uses of an iPad; iPhones, too! Apple will go after anything that promotes the sales of their hardware products and reading books is one of those driving factors.

So ebooks and ebook sales _are_ actually important to Apple. Don't forget, the 70% share (not royalty!) we get of the sales proceeds is thanks to Apple, not Amazon. Amazon was firmly at 35% until Apple announced they were offering 70% and moved quickly to match Apple in order not to lose authors-the source of their most profitable product. Amazon will never drop the sales share until Apple does. If both companies ever did drop it, they would open the door for an upstart competitor to appear and offer authors a better share. Guess who would get all the books first?

*The better news:*

Every time we complain that Apple doesn't care about ebooks, there is a team of employees at Apple who take it very personally. VERY personally. They get very upset every time we complain that Apple doesn't see ebooks as important. They are the team of engineers who develop and maintain iTunes and the iBookstore. It does bother them that this is the impression that [authors] have about them.

The number one weakness of the iBookstore is the lack of discoverability. The current interface only displays the top 50 or so books on the market. That doesn't help new books and authors that haven't been found by the market yet. Improve discoverability and you dramatically increase profits. Apple is working on improvements to their ebook sales system. I was hoping it would be ready for the release of Yosemite, but it wasn't. I hope we'll see something when El Capitan is released later this year. Apple is very careful when they are developing something new, and they don't release anything-even news about it-until they have nearly all the bugs worked out.

The potential in the publishing market is too great to ignore. Amazon is taking steps to improve and cement their market share; competitors will not go much longer without responding to that, Apple in particular.

We the authors are far more valuable than we think. We are the source of the raw material that is pushing the $279 billion dollar value in the market. Don't think for a moment that the distributors are unaware of this fact.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

WDR said:


> *First, I will give you the bad news:*
> 
> Quoting Steve Jobs from about 20 years ago: "Apple is a hardware company." They are first and foremost focused on creating and selling hardware: computers, phones, and other technologies. Second to this is creating the software necessary to ensure these hardware products operate as transparently as possible to the user. Third, is the support of products and services that promote the sales of the hardware products.
> 
> ...


Yup! PM'd you William.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I answered this in a PM, for those who want a quick try at Facebook ads (I started with just $5 a day on a $9.99 boxed set),

In Targeting, in Behaviors try out

Purchase Behavior > Purchase Types > Online
Purchase Habits > Purchase Types > Books

There's also Subscription Services for those who are in KU that could be another great targetting mecahnism.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I answered this in a PM, for those who want a quick try at Facebook ads (I started with just $5 a day on a $9.99 boxed set),
> 
> In Targeting, in Behaviors try out
> 
> ...


Thank you. FB ads are next on my list. I tried to figure it out a few months ago, but got stuck, and put it aside for a bit. Next week, I'll work on it again.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

WDR said:


> *
> 
> The number one weakness of the iBookstore is the lack of discoverability. The current interface only displays the top 50 or so books on the market. That doesn't help new books and authors that haven't been found by the market yet. Improve discoverability and you dramatically increase profits. Apple is working on improvements to their ebook sales system. I was hoping it would be ready for the release of Yosemite, but it wasn't. I hope we'll see something when El Capitan is released later this year. Apple is very careful when they are developing something new, and they don't release anything--even news about it--until they have nearly all the bugs worked out.
> 
> ...


*

Amen to this. I am a loyal Apple product user. I have an iPhone, MacBook Air, iMac, iPad, and Apple TV. I am distributed to Apple iBooks and am starting to make a solid income there, but it's only half of what I earn on Amazon. However, it's enough to keep me from going exclusive with Amazon. My performance on Apple was helped by an Apple promo of my series, and two Bookbubs on my permafree series starters. I'm impressed with Apple iBook readers. They get free books and seem to actually read them and then purchase the rest of the series at a higher rate than Amazon readers. My read through on Apple is higher than Amazon.

I was happy that Apple promoted me but it's far more important to have a better discoverability system for new authors. It's harder to do well on Apple than Amazon and if Apple can up their game and seriously compete with Amazon, there would be less reason to go exclusive.*


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

L C Storm said:


> We got feedback in KU1, but we don't get feedback in KU2.


Feedback in KU1: Your book was borrowed at some point in the past and subsequently read past 10% today.

Feedback in KU2: Today readers read X% of your book.

Not really seeing your point.

As for Apple, I'd have more hope for them if I hadn't been either ambivalent about or disappointed by every design change I've noticed from them over the past few years. I've been using Macs and other Apple products since the 80s--and I was born in the 80s--so it's a big red flag for me that I'm not sure whether my next laptop is also going to be a Mac. My MacBook Pros seem crabby, overpriced, and unreliable in comparison to the PC I built a year ago with my own two hands, and hardware is supposed to be Apple's wheelhouse. I'm very skeptical about their leadership these days.

How that applies to ebooks, I really can't say. I'm just a lot less optimistic about Apple's direction now than I was in the past.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Currently, I'm all in KU. Why? Nothing has sold through the other outlets in months. I hope that KU can build up my reading audience as well.

Besides, I'm a marathon runner, not a sprinter, when it comes to writing.  

^^What I mean by the last statement is that I write novels (marathon) more than shorts (sprints), which seemed to have been taken out of context.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2015)

1) Everything that WDR said. THIS is what is going to take us to the promised land. The realization by authors that they aren't serfs, they're kingmakers.

2) This: Don't forget, the 70% share (not royalty!) we get of the sales proceeds is thanks to Apple, not Amazon. Amazon was firmly at 35% until Apple announced they were offering 70% and moved quickly to match Apple in order not to lose authors--the source of their most profitable product.

All the authors thinking they are indentured to AMazon need to keep this in mind. It HURTS authors, not helps them, if authors turn Amazon into a monopoly.


3) This: We the authors are far more valuable than we think. We are the source of the raw material that is pushing the $279 billion dollar value in the market. Don't think for a moment that the distributors are unaware of this fact.

*******

The $279 billion dollar market is 1000% dependent on just two parties

Authors who produce the creative content.
Readers who PAY FOR and read the creative content.

Everyone else is EXTRINSIC.

If you get 

An enabling platform that is asking for 10% to 20% and acknoqledging you as Kingmakers then it makes some sense to have some loyalty. Actually, scratch that, treat the platform well until you find some platform that asks for just 5% to 10%.

If, on the other hand, you have some company

Pretending they have all the power and asking for exclusivity and 65% if the pricing is outside their 'dictated ideal pricing' and not showing you sales data and not showing you how much they make from your books in their subscription program

Then you should be showing them the guillotine, not loyalty.

******


X) There are NO MORE GATES

Readers can go to Authors DIRECTLY.
Authors can go to Readers DIRECTLY.

If some company lets you build DIRECT CHANNELS to authors which you control 100%, then that's the ideal.

Anyone trying to obfuscate thigns and hide things

is just trying to put you back in the serf mentality.

*****

Authors are the Kingmakers. Stop having peasant mindset.
Use Amazon for CUSTOMER ACQUISITION and then get those readers into your email lists and sell to them directly and make 100% of the money. MOST of your readers will understand.

Also this: We are the source of the raw material that is pushing the $279 billion dollar value in the market. Don't think for a moment that the distributors are unaware of this fact.

There is nothing tech companies would like more than to have millions of serfs product the raw material for this $279 billion dollar market for nothing.

Amazon is trying to turn your raw material into onions - commoditize it.
That's why page reads - to obfuscate. If it makes you money - great. Don't lose sight of what subscription services do - they commoditize content.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

ireaderreview said:


> X) There are NO MORE GATES
> 
> Readers can go to Authors DIRECTLY.
> Authors can go to Readers DIRECTLY.
> ...


Well stated!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

ireaderreview said:


> Use Amazon for CUSTOMER ACQUISITION and then get those readers into your email lists and sell to them directly and make 100% of the money.


Thread gold medal right there.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

MeganBryce said:


> I really wonder how many readers would buy direct from authors. I wouldn't. I don't sign up for author mailing lists, I follow through Amazon. I don't buy direct even knowing myself that the author can make more money, I buy from my favorite retailer. I have a hundred favorite authors and if I bought direct from all of them...what a hassle.
> 
> Do I sell direct? Yep. And I'm trying to grow it, too. But I don't believe it will ever be a major percentage of sales.


Yeah this. I read way to much to ever buy from authors websites. Not only would I have to give my financial info to who knows how many different payment systems, I then would have to keep track of 100's and 100's of different websites.

With Amazon I have one place I give my info too, one place I trust. They also back up everything I buy all in one place. There is customer service and I have a return policy. You get none of that if you buy from individual sites.

One other thing that concerned me was another thread here where it was mentioned that one of the services, gumroad, gives the author the customer addresses. Now I might have misunderstood, that but is really a big concern if true.

I was going to say that I have added more stuff to my KU tbr list because of this thread. . There is a thread in the bazaar, I suggest those that are adding their books into KU to place a post in that thread. It helps if you list what genres the books are.


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## Tuttle (Jun 10, 2010)

There's one author where I buy direct from sometimes (and through sometimes). They're an author who for some of their work, they publish exclusively on their website with lower prices for a while before publishing on amazon, etc, and were one of my favorite authors growing up.

Unless you can meet favorite author status, and give me a reason to go through your site instead of amazon (a good mailing list that isn't irritating that gives me site-wide sales around releases) then I'll look. If you're not a favorite author, I'd just stop reading you.

Also, your checkout method matters a lot. If it isn't one I trust I won't buy direct, no matter how much you are a favorite author.



Atunah said:


> I was going to say that I have added more stuff to my KU tbr list because of this thread. . There is a thread in the bazaar, I suggest those that are adding their books into KU to place a post in that thread. It helps if you list what genres the books are.


Also, seconded!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Atunah said:


> There is a thread in the bazaar, I suggest those that are adding their books into KU to place a post in that thread. It helps if you list what genres the books are.


Do you know the title of the thread? I can only find one for books coming OUT of KU


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Do you know the title of the thread? I can only find one for books coming OUT of KU


http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196098.0.html


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

In defense of the distributors:

By opening its gates to independent writers, Amazon gave writers a channel by which to sell their wares and make their books easily discoverable. Prior to this, making a living as a self-published writer was nearly impossible. When other book distributors followed suit, self-publishing went from a thing of shame to a thing of respectability and glory.

For the 30% cut, distributors take care of the sales transactions, delivery of the product, site hosting costs, and-a very big thing for me-dealing with the local sales taxes at time of purchase as well as the accounting. Point-of-Sale (POS) software for websites costs money and a monthly fee, more money than I currently make. Square and PayPal do make handling credit card transactions cheap and easy, but then I have to account for the transactions and manually deliver product. Right now, I like that all I have to do is upload the ebook file and then deposits follow in a timely manner. That's a lot of headache removed from my life for a share of the sales. I feel that is worth the money it costs me.

As implied above, they make it easier. Not everyone has the wherewithal to deal with all the facets of the business of writing. Many writers here use intermediary services such as D2D or Smashwords to disseminate their ebooks because those services make that aspect of self-publishing even easier. The whole "Write, Upload, Collect" business model is pretty sweet when things are going well. But we all know there is far more to it than that.

Right now what we are seeing with KUv2 is merely a step in the evolution of the publishing industry. KUv1 proved to be immensely beneficial to writers of short stories, but it left writers of longer works out in the cold. KUv2 does take some of the wind of the sails (and sales) of short story writers, but it more equally shares that wind with the writers of longer stories. Amazon was seeing an exodus of novels from their KU program over the past year because many authors of longer works found their sales came to a screeching halt. It made the program untenable for both sides as readers wanted longer works available in the library, but those works were rapidly disappearing.

In exchange for exclusivity, Amazon must show that their program is financially advantageous for the author. For KUv1, it was proving not to be the case. I heard many more stories of authors leaving KU than those having grand success with KU. To Amazon's credit, I have come across no complaints when an author asked to be let out of the program early. Thus, just a year after it started, Amazon changed how KU compensated the authors.

We'll see what happens from here. In a couple of weeks, authors will begin to report what their actual earnings are from the KUv2 program. Over the next couple of months, we'll see whether or not the program is really rewarding authors for giving Amazon exclusivity or if it is a bust like KUv1 was. If it does prove to be successful, then we will see a wave of adoptions and a move by the other distributors to counter the program, hopefully by offering better incentives to authors. More competition.

I'm willing to bet that the whole concept will still require tweaking to get it right.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Atunah said:


> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196098.0.html


Thanks. Found I'd already added mine to the thread


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## Cora Jane Snow (Dec 19, 2013)

Thank you, Annie the Apostate!   Your generosity in sharing your thinking helps all of us, especially a newb like me


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

WDR said:


> We'll see what happens from here. In a couple of weeks, authors will begin to report what their actual earnings are from the KUv2 program. Over the next couple of months, we'll see whether or not the program is really rewarding authors for giving Amazon exclusivity or if it is a bust like KUv1 was. If it does prove to be successful, then we will see a wave of adoptions and a move by the other distributors to counter the program, hopefully by offering better incentives to authors. More competition.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that the whole concept will still require tweaking to get it right.


In the first months, Amazon will be generous with the amount paid per page to keep authors happy. Then they'll start playing with the amount until it's where they want it. What happened before will happen again. History repeats...


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

MeganBryce said:


> I really wonder how many readers would buy direct from authors. I wouldn't. I don't sign up for author mailing lists, I follow through Amazon. I don't buy direct even knowing myself that the author can make more money, I buy from my favorite retailer. I have a hundred favorite authors and if I bought direct from all of them...what a hassle.


This is me too. I'm not going to spend time going to a bunch of websites and I'm not going to set up payments there either. There have been times in the past when I've bought something from Amazon even when I could find it for less elsewhere because I know I can return things bought at Amazon without hassle.


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## Randall Wood (Mar 31, 2014)

ellenoc said:


> This is me too. I'm not going to spend time going to a bunch of websites and I'm not going to set up payments there either. There have been times in the past when I've bought something from Amazon even when I could find it for less elsewhere because I know I can return things bought at Amazon without hassle.


I don't think the majority of authors who are setting up their own stores are doing it to move ebooks or to try to pull people from Amazon in huge numbers. If they are like me they are doing it to move paperbacks and hardcovers into indie stores and the ebook portion is just a nice bonus (and a parachute if something should ever drastically change).

It is a nice way to give something to your mailing list without changing anything on the other platforms too. A little flexibility when needed.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

MeganBryce said:


> I really wonder how many readers would buy direct from authors. I wouldn't. I don't sign up for author mailing lists, I follow through Amazon. I don't buy direct even knowing myself that the author can make more money, I buy from my favorite retailer. I have a hundred favorite authors and if I bought direct from all of them...what a hassle.
> 
> Do I sell direct? Yep. And I'm trying to grow it, too. But I don't believe it will ever be a major percentage of sales.


Yeah, this is important when considering selling directly to readers. A person has their ebook reader and it is just so much easier clicking and having it magically show up in the ebook reader than to have to download it, find where the file is on the computer, connect the reader, load the file into the reader, eject the reader, etc. It is time consuming and most people don't want to be bothered. Just like a paper book, the reader wants to buy it and immediately sit down and begin reading it without having to jump through a few hoops, first.

In light of this, the only things I sell directly on my website are special edition or unique items not offered through the distributors, such as autographed ebooks. (Yes, it is possible. And when I get my new computer, I'll be able to do it live, too.)


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Hey Annie,

How is it going so far?


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## NerdyWriter (Nov 23, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> 7) I'm keeping my permafrees out. I know, I know, I advised NEVER to do that. But I put a note at the end of all my free books on the other retailers, asking them to contact me, and I'll send them the rest of my books. I've already had some fans writing me for the books, and I've sent out the omnibuses. That's not a bad strategy, as it gives me a chance to ask if they'd like to be on my mailing list, and giving free books is a good way to get loyal fans. But the main reason why I'm keeping my permafrees out is the control thing again. I want to be able to run regular free ads, as opposed to running these ads during the five day window I would get under KU. This might be a mistake, but it's my way of hedging my bets.


Do you give those other customers any links or info on how to sideload your omnibuses to their respective devices or you leave that up to them to figure out?

You give them your omnibuses for free for reading your permafrees on other retailers? Do you get a lot of people looking to continue the series, but can't find the rest of the series on their non-amazon retailers?

I would imagine the omnibuses are in Kindle Unlimited?


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Crystal_ said:


> Hey Annie,
> 
> How is it going so far?


Quite well! I actually pulled out two of my series and left two in. I got a BB for "Broken," so I pulled out the Broken series and the Illusions series during the three day grace period. Smartest thing I've ever done, because Broken immediately started doing well on Apple again (even before BB hit), and I made almost $500 there yesterday (day two of the BB ad).

In the meantime, I left my underperforming series in (Fearless and Exposure). They're doing pretty well, and they're making more on KENPC then they were making wide. They're not doing spectacularly, as I suspected they wouldn't, but still, I believe that they're doing better in KU then they were wide.

So, moral of the story - gauge what books are doing well wide, and keep them wide. If you have a series that isn't doing so well wide, put it in KU. It's a good strategy.

In the meantime, I do believe I'm going to put my new series in KU to test the waters. Not sure, though. I haven't gotten Book One written yet on that series, although I'm chugging along on it. I'll see what feels right for it when the time is right.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

anniejocoby said:


> So, moral of the story - gauge what books are doing well wide, and keep them wide. If you have a series that isn't doing so well wide, put it in KU. It's a good strategy.


That's exactly what I did. It's a good way to revive a sagging series.

I'm finishing up another series in about a week (with the editor now) and I'll be putting that trilogy in KU as soon as I hit publish with book 3.


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## RuthNestvold (Jan 4, 2012)

I haven't been doing well wide at all, so I too have pulled most of my books and put them back into Kindle Select. I guess I never was able to figure out how to gain traction on other sites.


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## Eskimo (Dec 31, 2013)

My own experience with KU2, combined with a BB promo, has been very powerful.

Previously, I would typically get about 100 borrows a month with KU and earn about $140. After a BB ad, those number went up to about 300 borrows and $425 per month.

On July 20 I ran a BB free promo for the latest book in my series. I rode the usual BB sales rocket for a few days, but then something interesting happened. I had been getting about 800 KU2 page reads a day, which at half a cent a page was translating almost exactly to what I made under KU1. Then the BB promo came out and my page reads exploded. For the rest of July, I was averaging 25,000 page reads a day, peaking one day at 33,000. 

So instead of the BB promo tripling my KU borrows, the effect on page reads was more like 30x. It has finally started to subside, but page reads are still far greater than they were before.

I had been planning to go wide next year, but this has changed my thinking. As the OP pointed out, being willing to pivot and adjust to market conditions is critically important. Nothing stays the same in this business.


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