# Amazon missed the boat



## kim (Nov 20, 2008)

It looks like Sony made a great deal with Target Stores.  I was shopping yesterday and saw quite a display of Sony e-readers, book lights, a deal where you get a bunch of free books for your Sony.  That display alone will prompt many holiday sales for the Sony e-reader.  

It's too bad Amazon doesn't catch on to that marketing strategy.  Online stores are great but you cant ignore the power of the bricks and mortar stores.  If people could see and touch the Kindle, I'm sure sales would increase.  Which for us would mean cheaper Kindles, better features, more books!

I was very hesitant about ordering my Kindle without having seen one.  I like Amazon, I like Target.  I think Amazon should open itself to new possibilities.  

What do you think?  Don't you think Amazon could do a better job of marketing (ok, Oprah is an exception to this)?  Wouldn't you like to be able to see these in a store?


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

Considering how well Kindles have done, with very little marketing, I do think they might benefit by some, but I do not really agree that they missed out here. I think the most compelling tool is the overwhelming amount of satisfied customers. After I saw it on Oprah, I checked the customer reviews on Amazon and that really sold me. If I was Amazon, I would make sure to give some out to Ellen's audience, when she does her Christmas give away shows... and to any other media stars with big mouths, the View would be good and also the new Bonnie Hunt show, which I love.

I also think the Sony at Target will be a good thing for Kindle as well. The more awareness about e readers in general is good for all e readers and savvy consumers will want to do more research and quickly may discover there is an even better one on the market!


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## jah (Oct 28, 2008)

I think Amazon has more bite off more then it can chew right now in regards to the kindle, the wait list is now 11 week+.
Right now the can't keep it instock. 

Jodi


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

I know of some people who have been turned _off_ the Sony because the display in the store wasn't working, so.... Also, if amazon sell the devices via Target (or some other B&M affiliate), you have to give them their cut, so the price is going to go _up_ by doing that, at least in the short term, and I don't know if amazon can afford that right now. I agree with Jodi, too, if they can't meet production demand now, there is no reason to try to increase it until they ramp up manufacturing.

(BTW, the "free books" for the Sony are classics in the public domain that anyone can download for the Kindle as well, or even to read on a computer.)


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

There was a James Patterson version of the Sony Reader for a while.  Came with a special cover and several of his books pre-loaded.  Cost a little more than the standard version I think.

Ann


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

A company changes marketing strategy in order to increase sales. Amazon cannot keep up with the demand as it is. I can't see why they would want to be more aggressive in their marketing if the end result is just a longer waiting list.

Eventually, I can see that they might want to market outside of Amazon (and I bet that they ultimately will), but not until the demand slows down.

JMO.


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

I don't think that Amazon missed the boat, I think they jumped on the best bandwagin around.


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

Word of mouth has got to count for something! Speaking of which - I need to get over to amazon and get my product review entered.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2008)

I agree with the fact that until Amazon can keep up with the current demand, they should just stick to what they are doing.  

People may want a Kindle but they are not going to want to wait almost 3 months to get it.  This will cost them some sales but not enough to matter in the long run I guess.


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## Teach142 (Oct 28, 2008)

Borders has a Sony display as well.  In fact, shortly after I got my Kindle I was in Borders.  I got to talking with the Sony rep and he was way impressed with my Kindle.  He even told a customer that buying the Kindle would be better.  Kindle has so much more to offer than the Sony.  Better marketing through Target, but no better quality.


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## cat616 (Nov 4, 2008)

They have not missed the boat - they got on the Ferry that goes the long route but gives you a much better and more enjoyable ride.

I think Amazon has started out slow on purpose in order to perfect the product before making it widely available.  We Kindle Owners are willing Testers and so far the product is making us very happy. Our suggestions are probably being listened to for making it an even better product so that when Amazon is happy with the basic Kindle, Kindle Services, ebook distribution Worldwide and nothing carries the experimental label they will drop it into the market in a big way.

I am not sure what the Oprah thing was about.  They know about the Oprah effect as it has boosted their sales many times.  I do not understand why they appear not to have been ready for the demand that would be generated.  Maybe they are ready to unveil an updated product very soon and wanted to be sure to have sold off the older version before they roll it out.  Maybe Oprah insisted on doing the show and Amazon thought it unwise to deny her.

In store displays catch people who prefer to shop in a physical store and each store has its own limited customer base.  

Amazon has a virtual store and a VERY VERY large Worldwide customer base.  When Amazon is ready they have all the mechanisms in place to do a marketing blitz on their customers with very little effort or cost.  Hopefully they will be fully prepared by having enough product to keep up with the demand at that time.

IMHO Amazon is just not ready yet.


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## Rivery (Nov 10, 2008)

The B&M displays will catch the impulsive buyers, like my husband.  He bought a Sony at Boarders last March.  But then after going home and doing some research he bought me a Kindle. Yes!  He still claims the the Sony is the one for him.  All the "gadgets" on the Kindle are perfect for me, but he says he likes the simplicity of the Sony.  Silly man.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Dori said:


> I don't think that Amazon missed the boat, I think they jumped on the best bandwagin around.


What Dori said. (thumbs up)


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## hazeldazel (Oct 30, 2008)

there's no way that ANY bricks & mortar store would touch marketing the Kindle.  Amazon sells just about everything you can think of, so any B&M store would be a competitor.  Besides, Amazon is selling so many that people are having to wait nearly three months for one as it is, plus they've been able to more than double the amount of ebooks available.  That's a success in my book.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

hazeldazel said:


> plus they've been able to more than double the amount of ebooks available. That's a success in my book.


Good point. If it wasn't for Amazon and Kindle there wouldn't be anywhere near the amount of e-books available as there are now.

I don't buy anything in a B&M store unless I check for the same item (or a better one) on Amazon. I've even bought groceries from Amazon.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I really would have liked to try out the Kindle before I bought one, and I likely would have bought one much earlier had I been able to touch it. That said, I bought our first one a month or so after they were finally in stock. This is my husband's Kindle, which he uses mainly for reading the newspaper. When the Oprah discount appeared, I went ahead and got one for myself as well.

Considering how difficult it seems to be for Amazon to manufacture enough of them, I think they've been doing fine keeping them in their online store only.

As for Target, they're not doing to well right now themselves.



pacific.bizjournals.com said:


> Poor performance in its credit-card business and a slowdown in consumer spending pushed Target Corp.'s earnings down nearly 24 percent in the third quarter.
> 
> The Minneapolis company on Monday reported third-quarter earnings of $369 million, or 49 cents per share, down almost 24 percent from a profit of $483 million, or 56 cents per share, during the year-ago period.


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## quickfics (Oct 27, 2008)

I would argue that selling the Kindle in a B&M would have very little effect on its success. Unlike most other electronic gadgets, Kindles aren't geared for the casual, impulse buyer. Everybody knows why they want a DVD player, or an iPod, a cell phone, or even a non-stick frying pan; but Kindles are _different_. A customer reading bullet points on a fact tag, or even dinking around with a display, is more likely than not to be turned off by the whole book-alternativeness. A Kindle needs word-of-mouth and one-on-one demonstrations, and by limiting sales to the Amazon site, that's basically all it has. It has legions of fans eager to praise and demonstrate its abilities to family, friends, and complete strangers. You cannot buy that kind of publicity.

People who want to purchase Kindles are pretty savvy. They've already seen one in the wild, read everything about it on the internet, watched all the author videos, and been convinced that $360 is a relative bargain.

All a presence in a B&M would garner would be immediacy for the already converted. And when you consider the infrastructure challenges Amazon would have to conquer to sell the Kindle in, say, a Target, I believe it would be a losing proposition: Registering customers for an Amazon account, keeping units in stock, returns, retail training, kiosk POS, how to demo Whispernet, etc.

Maybe someday, but, currently, it's such a weird and wonderful little gadget that Amazon is selling it the only way it _can_ be sold.


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

Holey Toledo,  don't tell me I can get my bananas by one clicking.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Dori said:


> Holey Toledo, don't tell me I can get my bananas by one clicking.


Kind of: there's such a thing as Peapod. Affiliated with various food stores around the country. Go online, order your groceries and they'll be delivered to your door.

Ann


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## supermom (Nov 19, 2008)

I saw the Sony at Target a while back, and that was actually how I learned about e books.  I don't really remeber how I heard about the kindle though.  I'm glad I bought the kindle, I do wish I could have seen one before I bought it because I wouldn't have waited the month or two I did before I ordered mine.


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## kim (Nov 20, 2008)

I expected to hear everyone say that Amazon can't keep up with demand now and therefore shouldn't be in a store.  I completely agree with that.

But I'm surprised only one person has mentioned that she would have like to see a Kindle before buying one.  I probably would have bought one months ago if I were able to actually see and touch one.

Did most of you get to see one before getting your own?  Am I an exception having ordered one sight unseen?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd first looked at it when it was first announced and read all the reviews on Amazon and elsewhere.  I did want to see it in person and when the See a Kindle in Your City Forum came about I hooked up with someone in my area.  So I got to play with hers and see how it worked.  Then I checked out a Sony Reader at the Sony Store.  Then I ordered. 

Ann


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

kim said:


> Did most of you get to see one before getting your own? Am I an exception having ordered one sight unseen?


I hadn't seen one and didn't know anyone who owned one, near or far. I was the trailblazer with my friends and family.

L


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## cat616 (Nov 4, 2008)

I purchased sight unseen.

I did my homework first and felt it was a safe bet.  I am not disappointed.  I got exactly what I expected.


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

I bought mine sight unseen as well. But I did my homework and figured that with the 30 day money back guarantee from Amazon, I couldn't lose. If I didn't like it, I would have just sent it back. Of course I didn't, instead I bought my wife one.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

I also bought one sight unseen.  I lurked around the amazon forums for a few days, and that had me so hooked that I went ahead and ordered.  I toyed with the idea of trying to hook up with someone on the See a Kindle in Your City forum, but that seemed a little weird.  I also knew about the 30 day money back guarantee, so I figured that on the off chance I didn't like it, I could get a refund.  I got it, turned it on, and the rest is history


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

The first time I saw an actual Kindle was when I got mine! I too did a lot of research, reading all I could. Still, there is no real risk, since you have 30 days to return it if you don't like it.


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## sebat (Nov 16, 2008)

Octochick said:


> If I was Amazon, I would make sure to give some out to Ellen's audience, when she does her Christmas give away shows... and to any other media stars with big mouths, the View would be good and also the new Bonnie Hunt show, which I love.


The first time I ever saw a Kindle was in early August. It was on either The View or Ellen. I ordered one the next day for my husband's birthday.

I know Whoopie owns a Kindle and has shown it on The View. I can't remember now if it was The View or Ellen that gave them away to the audience. I think it was Ellen. Both shows beat Oprah to it but Oprah is the one with the most clout. 

Personally, I think Amazon has all the business they can handle at the moment. Until they can keep up with the demand, they don't need to expand their marketing campaign.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Wasn't Ellen. . .I watch that every day (yay Tivo) and I'd have remembered.  I think it was the View which I pretty much never watch though I did hear that Whoopi came out as a fan of the Kindle.

Ann


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## Linda Cannon-Mott (Oct 28, 2008)

Dori said:


> Holey Toledo, don't tell me I can get my bananas by one clicking.


Cute Bookworm Dori.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I've been thinking about this some more, and while I think their distribution methods are doing well, their supply certainly isn't. To miss one Christmas is bad, but to miss two? Inexcusable. I hope their stockholders let them know it.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Dori said:


> Holey Toledo, don't tell me I can get my bananas by one clicking.


Not quite, Dori. But you can buy non-perishables from Amazon, and they're eligible for free shipping. I've bought canned good that I can't get at my local stores.

I used to buy on-line for an $8 delivery charge from Publix Grocery stores. Frozen foods, meats, produce, everything. Then one day, without warning, they stopped. Boy I miss that.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Amazon is *smart*...WE are their: brick and mortar, their advertising, their display, their publicist, their sales rep, their Q&A dept, just to mention a few.

I have no regrets. Amazon's customer service is impeccable; I've not heard the best things about Sony's customer service regarding their e-reader. I do know that the local Border's pulled the plug on them due to poor customer relations and lack of response.


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

sjc said:


> Amazon is *smart*...WE are their: brick and mortar, their advertising, their display, their publicist, their sales rep, their Q&A dept, just to mention a few.
> 
> I have no regrets. Amazon's customer service is impeccable; I've not heard the best things about Sony's customer service regarding their e-reader. I do know that the local Border's pulled the plug on them due to poor customer relations and lack of response.


Well stated! I completely agree... no regrets and I love being a PR rep for Kindle!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Angela said:


> Well stated! I completely agree... no regrets and I love being a PR rep for Kindle!


Absolutely. The more people buy them, the more publishers will jump on the e-book bandwagon.


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## Wannabe (Nov 6, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> I've been thinking about this some more, and while I think their distribution methods are doing well, their supply certainly isn't. To miss one Christmas is bad, but to miss two? Inexcusable. I hope their stockholders let them know it.


I don't think they figured on the "Oprah Effect."

I bought mine sight unseen after having watched them since last November, waiting for the price to come down a bit (as most electronics eventually do). Then when Oprah had Kindle on her show and offered the discount, I decided that I'd waited long enough and I pounced. Just in time, too. A week or two later and I'd still be waiting for my Harper to arrive.


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## hazeldazel (Oct 30, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about them "missing" two xmas's in a row, it's the "Wii Effect" - gizmo sooooo popular that no matter how many they make they can't keep it on the shelves.  Hear that, Rowling?


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## sebat (Nov 16, 2008)

hazeldazel said:


> Hear that, Rowling?


 

No, HP that frustrates me, too.


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> I've been thinking about this some more, and while I think their distribution methods are doing well, their supply certainly isn't. To miss one Christmas is bad, but to miss two? Inexcusable. I hope their stockholders let them know it.


I pretty much agree, but I don't think that the problem is all Amazon's. eInk is a limited commodity and, while I have no first hand knowledge, I suspect that the screen is the bottleneck in their supply chain. Just makes sense that when you have a single supplier, with no ability to go elsewhere for a competitive product, that supplier stands a good chance to be the point at which productions slows down.

JMO.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

sebat said:


> No, HP that frustrates me, too.


I'll third that. There are just some books I want to carry around with me and the HP series is one. Gotta keep clicking.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2008)

I would love to see Harry on my Kindle, but JK has as much power in the publishing world as Oprah has in media. Unless she has a major epiphany, I don't see her changing her mind. 

Although, she is friendly with Stephen King, maybe he could convince her.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

LuckyRainbow said:


> I would love to see Harry on my Kindle, but JK has as much power in the publishing world as Oprah has in media. Unless she has a major epiphany, I don't see her changing her mind.
> 
> Although, she is friendly with Stephen King, maybe he could convince her.


King is a huge fan. Maybe we should be writing to him. Get him on our side.


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## chynared21 (Oct 28, 2008)

*I bought Jinx sight unseen. I did do all the research that I could before hand...lurked a bit on Amazon and gleaned all the info I could before I decided to order. DH said to go for it if it meant that I'd stop loading up on books...so order I did ))*


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

MikeD said:


> I bought mine sight unseen as well. But I did my homework and figured that with the 30 day money back guarantee from Amazon, I couldn't lose. If I didn't like it, I would have just sent it back. Of course I didn't, instead I bought my wife one.


That sounds like me. Only difference...within two weeks I was buying one for my daughter. We were supposed to share which was impossible.

L


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## katiekat1066 (Nov 19, 2008)

I admit that lack of a "hands on" experience is what delayed my Kindle purchase - I saw one once from afar, but never up close.  I did get to play with a friend's Sony, I have to admit that that fired me up for a book reader, but didn't sell me on the Sony once a wider variety of options opened up.  I researched the Cybook (very popular with a group I hang out with online), the Sony, and even drooled over the iRex (couldn't justify it, though) before deciding that I'm a Kindle sort of person.  Amazon must be doing something right marketing-wise, I don't usually know a thing about the latest techie toys.  Now all I have to do is seduce the old SO with it so that we can have ONE book budget instead of two.


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## Lynn (Nov 4, 2008)

I bought mine sight unseen after researching the Kindle and Sony's. No one was listed on the find a Kindle thread that was close enough.


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## Khabita (Oct 28, 2008)

I have a feeling that Amazon would love to find a partner like Target to sell through, but I don't think they are set up for retail distribution. Also, remember that Amazon sells a LOT more than books, so they are a competitor to the department stores. Sony, on the other hand, has been doing mass manufacturing and retail distribution for a long, long time, and they already have relationships with most major retailers.

So I doubt we will see an Amazon-major retailer partnership anytime soon.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

You know what they might do, though, is sell through catalogs like Signals and Wireless. You know, the NPR and PBS catalogs. Probably lots of readers there. They could also advertise through magazines that are literature focused like the Atlantic (which is available for Kindle) and Bookmarks (which is not available for Kindle but if you don't get it you should: http://www.bookmarksmagazine.com/.) The magazines could do something like have a code to enter so the magazine would get the Amazon Associates commission. To encourage folks to use the code it could have $20 in free books or something.

Regarding Bookmarks, they have reviews of new books or old books. Usually each issue focusses on a particular genre but there are always some reviews from several genres. They don't indicate if the books are Kindled, but I have sent a letter requesting it. We'll see what happens.

Ann


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## Xia (Nov 10, 2008)

MikeD said:


> I pretty much agree, but I don't think that the problem is all Amazon's. eInk is a limited commodity and, while I have no first hand knowledge, I suspect that the screen is the bottleneck in their supply chain. Just makes sense that when you have a single supplier, with no ability to go elsewhere for a competitive product, that supplier stands a good chance to be the point at which productions slows down.
> 
> JMO.


Oooo! Very interesting (to me, anyway). Would you mind pointing me in the direction of where you heard about the eInk screen being the cause of the newly excessive Kindle leadtime? I used to work in that sort of field (production/purchasing/planning/etc) and would truly be fascinated to read about their bottleneck problems due to the eInk screen. -X-


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

Xia said:


> Oooo! Very interesting (to me, anyway). Would you mind pointing me in the direction of where you heard about the eInk screen being the cause of the newly excessive Kindle leadtime? I used to work in that sort of field (production/purchasing/planning/etc) and would truly be fascinated to read about their bottleneck problems due to the eInk screen. -X-


It is a fact that there is only one producer of eInk screens.
It is a fact that they were planning to build a new factory to keep up with a significant increase in demand.
That info came out back in the early part of the year when there was also a backlog. At that time several sellers of reading devices had supply problems. You can probably google that as easily as I can. 

Everything else is speculation on my part, thus the use of terms such as "I have no first hand knowledge" and "I suspect". 

Unfortunately, no specific articles or insider knowledge. Just speculation based on those few facts that we do have...


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## Xia (Nov 10, 2008)

MikeD said:


> It is a fact that there is only one producer of eInk screens.
> it is a fact that they were planning to build a new factory to keep up with demand.
> You can probably google that as easily as I can.
> 
> ...


Okay, cool, I'll definitely do the google. Btw, I wasn't in any way trying be confrontational. Thanks for the extremely prompt and thorough response.


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## MikeD (Nov 5, 2008)

Xia said:


> ...Btw, I wasn't in any way trying be confrontational....


I didn't take it that way. Just trying to separate fact from speculation in my reply. Also, note that I edited my reply while you were posting to include a bit more info...


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