# What symbol(s) do you use to separate scenes?



## KSRuff (Jul 14, 2016)

When I first began writing,  *** was used to denote the lapse of time and/or a change in scenes within a chapter, but now I'm seeing lots of books with pretty little squiggly lines, Celtic knots, and the like. How is that accomplished? Where do you acquire these pretty little symbols, and do you have to insert them as "pictures" or "shapes?" Does it cause any problems when converting files into the required format for e-books? Any glitches or problems I should be aware of before I start begging my graphic design artist to create one?


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## Don Donovan (Dec 12, 2015)

I use this:  ≈ ≈ ≈


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

They're called fleurons. You can search the web for them, although any image could theoretically be used as one. Keep in mind they hike up your ebook's size and, on Amazon, eat into your royalty (for books priced in the 70% range). I still use * * * for most of my titles, but have been known to throw in a fleuron into others.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

The dinkus ( *** ) or asterism (technically, a triangle of asterisks, but often describing the three-in-a-row)is the standard symbol. If your goal is to provide a seamless, transparent experience that does not distract from the story, that's the gold standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterism_(typography)

If your goal is to impress readers (or possibly other authors) with your presentation, rather than provide a seamless reading experience, then use some other symbol. I say this without snark, as a reader--I don't want to be suddenly thrown out of the story by something unusual in the type and text.

Even drop caps or other chapter-starting artwork can do this to me, though it's not as bad when I've already mentally paused for a new chapter.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

Really, a blank space should do and then the new text with no indent to denote a scene break. When do you see *** or ### in trad published print books?

I think indie authors started using these *** back in the wildwest days when little was known about formatting and so introduced these symbols to force a space in the text and so it became the norm. Many mixed block text and standard text, or used styles to set a space before or after, and so the conversion software ignored para spaces and closed up the text.

Saying that, I use a scorpion for my scene breaks, only because my publishing name is Scorpion. The images are so small it makes hardly any difference to the file size. I prefer images as sometimes fleurons in certain font groups end up converting to say *xxyl* in the eBook. I had this recently for an author where she had used a crown fleuron in her historical fiction book, and so I converted them to small crown images and it solved the problem. You are only talking about 2KB for a small image.










Or sometimes if it calls for it I will use a relevent image as below.










Declan Conner: Print and eBook formatting services.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,263353.0.html


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## DCRWrites (Jan 20, 2014)

I go with an asterism in ebooks and a space in paperback. I also use indented rather than block paragraphs. The whole point for me is to get it all out of the way. I want readers focused on my words, not my formatting.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

David VanDyke said:


> The dinkus ( *** ) is asterism (technically, a triangle of asterisks, but often describing the three-in-a-row)is the standard symbol. If your goal is to provide a seamless, transparent experience that does not distract from the story, that's the gold standard.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterism_(typography)
> 
> ...


I started out using the dinkus (thanks for that David) and still use it. But for specialized books such as a themed series, I'll use something more appropriate. For my Zodiac series, I'll use the glyph for that sign as a scene break.


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## KSRuff (Jul 14, 2016)

Saul Tanpepper said:


> They're called fleurons. You can search the web for them, although any image could theoretically be used as one. Keep in mind they hike up your ebook's size and, on Amazon, eat into your royalty (for books priced in the 70% range). I still use * * * for most of my titles, but have been known to throw in a fleuron into others.


Woah! Good to know!


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## KSRuff (Jul 14, 2016)

David VanDyke said:


> The dinkus ( *** ) is asterism (technically, a triangle of asterisks, but often describing the three-in-a-row)is the standard symbol. If your goal is to provide a seamless, transparent experience that does not distract from the story, that's the gold standard.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterism_(typography)
> 
> ...


Thanks! I hadn't stopped to consider it would pull someone out of the story!


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

I just use the * * * (I add spaces) for ebooks. I don't like anything that stands out and distracts me from the story, and I don't use it myself. I do have a fancier scene break thing for the POD books, though. It's simple, and I don't think it's too much for print.


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## Ryan W. Mueller (Jul 14, 2017)

I use asterisks. I personally find that * * * * * looks better to me.

In the end, I don't think it really matters. If a reader is going to put your book down for how you do scene breaks, then you have bigger problems.

If I'm staying the same point of view but with the passage of time, I just put an extra return between the paragraphs. I use the asterisks when I'm switching to a different POV character.


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## Linn (Feb 2, 2016)

I generally use four asterisks with spaces in between - * * * *

But I also devised a time-shift symbol to indicate when the story is skipping forward or backward in time.
>> means forward.
<< means backward. (Hopefully those will look familiar enough to anyone who has used a remote control)
I mostly use these at the beginning of chapters, but sometimes use them as scene break symbols if that's where the jump in time occurs.


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## dgcasey (Apr 16, 2017)

I use four tildes ~~~~, but I have to watch it because when I hit Enter afterwards, it gets converted to a thick line across the page. I have been thinking of going with a Celtic knot or some other ornamental graphic.


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## 101569 (Apr 11, 2018)

I like the pretty graphics. 

I find its easier to miss the change in scene with only an extra space to identify it. Having to go back and figure out where the change happened can be irritating.


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## My Dog&#039;s Servant (Jun 2, 2013)

Decon said:


> I think indie authors started using these *** back in the wildwest days when little was known about formatting and so introduced these symbols to force a space in the text and so it became the norm. Many mixed block text and standard text, or used styles to set a space before or after, and so the conversion software ignored para spaces and closed up the text.


Nope. It became a standard when manuscripts were typed on manual typewriters (with carbons for backup. Shudder!), fonts were monospace, and editors and typesetters needed a clear indication of where the scene breaks were in a symbol that was actually available on a typewriter. It was needed because scene breaks become invisible if one scene ends at the bottom of a page and the next scene starts at the top of the following page. Under those conditions, even empty lines are easy to miss. Like the two spaces after a period (helpful when it's monospace type), the habit carried over. It sticks because it works and is familiar, so is less distracting.

I also disagree that simple line breaks in an ebook are sufficient for exactly the same reason--you miss the break if it occurs between pages.

You can't use ASCII symbols like Wingdings because they change as the reader changes fonts (at least, that's my understanding. I've never used them.) You can use png and jpg files for the fancy little bits, but as a reader I find them distracting because, on top of the distracting image, they show as a white box on my preferred taupe reading background.

Better yet, you can use Unicode symbols, which are more limited but won't create distracting image boxes. I played around with them for awhile and found this to be the most useful source https://unicode-table.com/en/blocks/miscellaneous-symbols/ The site lists symbols for all languages in Unicode, but also carries a number of images like stars or anchors or umbrellas or whatever. You can even type the name of a symbol you want into the search box. They don't have a lot, but....it's nice to have and it's free.

Currently, I'm using all caps on the first words of a scene (but not on the first words of a chapter). I use small caps for print (not necessarily the entire first sentence, but something short that grabs attention) and decided to experiment for ebooks. Small caps didn't do it for me, but all caps were okay. It's still not 100% perfect, but I'm pretty sure this is what I'll be sticking with for the foreseeable future. Plus searching for all caps formatting makes it easy for me to mass convert to small caps when I do print (I currently work in Word to get the formatting I want but am beginning to experiment with Scribus for better kerning and layout control).

Hope that helps. When in doubt, and especially if you're getting frustrated, go for simple and spend the time you save on writing more books. You can always go back and change them later if you want.


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## KSRuff (Jul 14, 2016)

My Dog's Servant said:


> Nope. It became a standard when manuscripts were typed on manual typewriters (with carbons for backup. Shudder!), fonts were monospace, and editors and typesetters needed a clear indication of where the scene breaks were in a symbol that was actually available on a typewriter. It was needed because scene breaks become invisible if one scene ends at the bottom of a page and the next scene starts at the top of the following page. Under those conditions, even empty lines are easy to miss. Like the two spaces after a period (helpful when it's monospace type), the habit carried over. It sticks because it works and is familiar, so is less distracting.
> 
> I also disagree that simple line breaks in an ebook are sufficient for exactly the same reason--you miss the break if it occurs between pages.
> 
> ...


This is incredibly helpful. Thank you!


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

If you use * * * in your word doc and then upload it to Vellum for conversion, it will interpret that as a scene break and you'll have a set of symbols you can use for scene breaks to choose from. If you vary--more than a space between *'s, say, or more than three--it won't see them as scene breaks.


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

I use the good old * * * in ebooks, and a # in my paperbacks. I did go for the blank line for a while but it was way too confusing in ebooks when it coincided with the new page.


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## jb1111 (Apr 6, 2018)

When it doesn't call for a new chapter I just use an empty line.


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## rcullison (Apr 12, 2018)

Add me to the * * * crowd. It's common and well-understood. It doesn't draw attention to itself, and no e-reader or document viewer can screw it up.

One or more blank lines doesn't cut it for e-books, in my opinion, because it's too easy to hit at the end of a page, causing reader confusion.


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

Another problem I had with a blank line was that the mobi and epub viewers in Calibre showed that blank line, but on my actual kindle 2 device it disappeared. I may have just been doing something wrong, but with all the scene breaks missing the scenes just ran into each other. That's when I reverted to * * * and stuck with it.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

I used to use the asterisks *** now I use ~~~<>~~~ just because I like the look in the font I use ... Once in a while I use a symbol like in Mabus, where I use a small phoenix..


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## Kathy Dee (Aug 27, 2016)

For me: new scene, new chapter. And if the scene isn't long enough to be a chapter, I make it so.


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## Rosie Scott (Oct 3, 2017)

Wow. I might be alone in using just one asterisk. It's the way I've always done scene breaks, and I never realized until now that it wasn't normal. Ha. Oh well, it gets the job done.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

My Dog's Servant said:


> Nope. It became a standard when manuscripts were typed on manual typewriters (with carbons for backup. Shudder!), fonts were monospace, and editors and typesetters needed a clear indication of where the scene breaks were in a symbol that was actually available on a typewriter. It was needed because scene breaks become invisible if one scene ends at the bottom of a page and the next scene starts at the top of the following page. Under those conditions, even empty lines are easy to miss. Like the two spaces after a period (helpful when it's monospace type), the habit carried over. It sticks because it works and is familiar, so is less distracting.


We beg to differ. I can agree that they were probably used by some in an MS at pre-editing and pre-publication, but a flick through my extensive library on my shelf at home and I don't see them in the finished product from trad publishers in printed books.

The standard proofreaders mark pre-publication for a scene break is a single # symbol, centered, but all proofreaders marks after correction are taken out at publication. The standard style is then to remove the indent from the opening para of the new scene, which signals it as such, besides the space.


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## dgcasey (Apr 16, 2017)

Rosie Scott said:


> Wow. I might be alone in using just one asterisk. It's the way I've always done scene breaks, and I never realized until now that it wasn't normal. Ha. Oh well, it gets the job done.


There isn't one way that is "normal." Most of it is personal preference. You do what looks best to you, without worrying what others think.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

I used to use either asterisks or an extra blank line, but nowadays I write all my scenes as chapters, so there's no scene break within a chapter. I just go to a new chapter.


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## SCapsuto (Dec 11, 2015)

The decorative separators I used in one book come from a lovely font called Bergamot Ornaments.

If I recall right, I used the font directly in the print edition but created a graphic of one of the characters for the ebooks.


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## Kal241 (Jan 11, 2017)

SCapsuto said:


> If I recall right, I used the font directly in the print edition but created a graphic of one of the characters for the ebooks.


I did something like this for my WIP. Took one of the character's heads and made a separator symbol out of it.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

I only use one (*), because word.doc converts three into a line across the page. I hate when that happens. One works just fine when I get the free formatting done in D2D.


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## Mercedes Vox (Jul 22, 2014)

KSRuff said:


> When I first began writing, *** was used to denote the lapse of time and/or a change in scenes within a chapter, but now I'm seeing lots of books with pretty little squiggly lines, Celtic knots, and the like. How is that accomplished? Where do you acquire these pretty little symbols, and do you have to insert them as "pictures" or "shapes?" Does it cause any problems when converting files into the required format for e-books? Any glitches or problems I should be aware of before I start begging my graphic design artist to create one?


I use Photoshop brushes to create my scene dividers. I acquire them by a) purchasing from places like CreativeMarket.com, b) free from DeviantArt.com artists who allow commercial use with or without attribution, and c) from reputable (meaning vetted with clear producer licensing) free sites such as Brusheezy.com. Then I use Photoshop to create my decorative scene breaks and chapter-header flourishes. I've never had a file conversion problem.


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## Not any more (Mar 19, 2012)

I have use three tildes ~~~ but in my past two series I've used fleurons that are part of the series branding. I'm using three sets of crossed swords in my current series, and in my Assassin series I use three crosshairs.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

symbols?

nah, just use a line.
*
Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom....*


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## Linn (Feb 2, 2016)

Decon said:


> We beg to differ. I can agree that they were probably used by some in an MS at pre-editing and pre-publication, but a flick through my extensive library on my shelf at home and I don't see them in the finished product from trad publishers in printed books.


I thought I remembered seeing them in Jurassic Park, but now that I flip through it what I am seeing is that they are only used if a scene break occurs at the bottom of a page, and all other scene breaks are indicated by a blank line. Paperback copy, 1993 printing, fwiw.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

I always use a dinkus, but I never knew it was called a dinkus.

So since I learned something new, I'll share one. The line you draw when writing a check to prevent anyone from adding additional info is called an omega nega.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

KSRuff said:


> When I first began writing, *** was used to denote the lapse of time and/or a change in scenes within a chapter, but now I'm seeing lots of books with pretty little squiggly lines, Celtic knots, and the like. How is that accomplished? Where do you acquire these pretty little symbols, and do you have to insert them as "pictures" or "shapes?" Does it cause any problems when converting files into the required format for e-books? Any glitches or problems I should be aware of before I start begging my graphic design artist to create one?


I still use the three asterisks. I think the really fancy stuff is created by Vellum, for which you need a Mac.


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## Spin52 (Sep 6, 2015)

Decon said:


> We beg to differ. I can agree that they were probably used by some in an MS at pre-editing and pre-publication, but a flick through my extensive library on my shelf at home and I don't see them in the finished product from trad publishers in printed books.
> 
> The standard proofreaders mark pre-publication for a scene break is a single # symbol, centered, but all proofreaders marks after correction are taken out at publication. The standard style is then to remove the indent from the opening para of the new scene, which signals it as such, besides the space.


That's what I do, too, just add an extra blank line and remove the indent from the following paragraph.

I HAVE ALSO done it like this, capitalizing the first couple of words in the next paragraph after the space.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Decon said:


> Really, a blank space should do and then the new text with no indent to denote a scene break. When do you see *** or ### in trad published print books?
> 
> I think indie authors started using these *** back in the wildwest days when little was known about formatting and so introduced these symbols to force a space in the text and so it became the norm. Many mixed block text and standard text, or used styles to set a space before or after, and so the conversion software ignored para spaces and closed up the text.


Trapub books used the asterism or dinkus all the time. It's a standard entry in the style manuals. Please don't start making stuff up about it originating with indies without doing even five minutes of basic web research. Spreading misinformation does nobody any good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterism_(typography)


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## notjohn (Sep 9, 2016)

I like three tildes, centered, with a space between.

The asterisks have been used as long as I have been reading, and that's a very long time. I see them in Penguin paperbacks I bought in 1955. Do people actually notice them? I doubt it.

Certainly their utility increased with the advent of ebooks (and self-published print editions that aren't carefully designed, which is the vast majority). There is a lot of space between lines in a Kindle book, when figuring in the narrowness of the text line compared to those on the printed page, and often added space between paragraphs, especially in books from mainstream publishers who use print rules in ebooks. 

I once used a sunburst to separate scenes in a novel which had only three parts. (The sunburst related to the narrator.) It worked great in the print edition, but it didn't translate well to digital, since I couldn't find a "sort" that worked reliably on all devices. I had to use an image, with the problems that entails with the first few generations of e-reader devices and indeed with colored backgrounds in many of the newer ones.

In print, especially in non-fiction, drop-caps are great for breaking up long chunks of text. But I don't use drop-caps in ebooks.


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## archaeoroutes (Oct 12, 2014)

# between scenes
-o- at the end of the book


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

Now I'm looking at my keyboard and planning my own dinkus. ~*~*~*~*~*~ #$%@!!!

I also like how the _#1 Ladies Detective Agency_ books ended with a simple and pure...

Africa 
Africa Africa 
Africa Africa Africa 
Africa Africa 
Africa​


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## Sunbird Books (May 10, 2016)

I use this:

_____


To me, it looks more streamlined and less archaic than the * * *, and it's simple enough that it doesn't distract from the flow of reading.


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## going going gone (Jun 4, 2013)

I get in moods. Sometimes I'm in a

* * *

mood, and sometimes

# # #

and sometimes

*~*

And I turn off the auto format thing in Word that changes anything to a line or different formatting than what I intended. Hate that feature.


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