# New EU VAT laws: Raising prices or taking the hit?



## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

I know there have been threads about the new EU VAT laws already, but they finally came into effect.

I thought it'd be interesting to compare our plans via a poll. How are you dealing with the new laws? Keeping your prices the same and making less per book, or rising prices by 50p or so and making what you were before?

I'm leaning towards the latter... but I'm way too hungover to make a decisive decision right now.

Happy new year, all.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

Raising prices. It's a tax rise, not a sale 

I'm using the occasion to consolidate pricing across all channels. My prices to now have become a bit of a sprawling mess. So it's not a problem, it's an opportunity, as the old saying goes.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Pelagios said:


> Raising prices. It's a tax rise, not a sale
> 
> I'm using the occasion to consolidate pricing across all channels. My prices to now have become a bit of a sprawling mess. So it's not a problem, it's an opportunity, as the old saying goes.


Great point. Good chance to get some pricing house-keeping done to see in the new year. How fun.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I've raised mine in all channels, but for the first time I am seeing the Google Play discount problem. Google are maintaining my old prices, and so of course amazon is price matching. This isn't as bad as it might seem, because the fix is obvious. I jack all prices at Google to double the correct amount, and until they respond, readers get the old price, while I get something like $10 per book more because Google pay royalty on list price, not the net price.

So that should cover the vat at Amazon, until Google notice. When they do, I'll put the right price back in and all is good. The other option is to delist the titles affected at Google, then relist after a week or something. I would rather make hay while the sun shines though


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## Debbie Bennett (Mar 25, 2011)

From Smashwords email: _As one Smashwords retailer told me, "We're all getting hit with the same stick here."_

Er - I don't think so! The big guys are VAT registered and can simply claim it back as input tax. It makes no difference to them what the VAT rate is.

But I did like Smashwords' little button that automatically adjusted everything for me!


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I've raised mine in all channels, but for the first time I am seeing the Google Play discount problem. Google are maintaining my old prices, and so of course amazon is price matching.


Interesting, I'm seeing the opposite. Google have removed almost all the discount from my new prices, making them look very expensive indeed!


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I've raised mine in all channels, but for the first time I am seeing the Google Play discount problem. Google are maintaining my old prices, and so of course amazon is price matching. This isn't as bad as it might seem, because the fix is obvious. I jack all prices at Google to double the correct amount, and until they respond, readers get the old price, while I get something like $10 per book more because Google pay royalty on list price, not the net price.
> 
> So that should cover the vat at Amazon, until Google notice. When they do, I'll put the right price back in and all is good. The other option is to delist the titles affected at Google, then relist after a week or something. I would rather make hay while the sun shines though


"Fortunately" I'm all in with KDP-Select so I don't have any price matching problems. But also I didn't bother changing my prices. Amazon converted all my $2.99 to €2.60 and then added on the various VAT rates for the different stores. Which is what I wanted to do. - Except for France where they converted $2.99 to €2.83 for some reason.

BTW, for what it's worth here in Ireland they are still charging me the 3% Luxemburg VAT rate.

-----------
Also when are KBoards going to realize that a huge chunk of the world use Euros? I can type the dollar sign"$", I can type the pound sign "£", but I can't type then Euro sign"€" !!! -come on.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm raising prices.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> I've raised mine in all channels, but for the first time I am seeing the Google Play discount problem. Google are maintaining my old prices, and so of course amazon is price matching. This isn't as bad as it might seem, because the fix is obvious. I jack all prices at Google to double the correct amount, and until they respond, readers get the old price, while I get something like $10 per book more because Google pay royalty on list price, not the net price.
> 
> So that should cover the vat at Amazon, until Google notice. When they do, I'll put the right price back in and all is good. The other option is to delist the titles affected at Google, then relist after a week or something. I would rather make hay while the sun shines though


Interesting observation. Thanks Mark.


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## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

Ignoring the VAT and not changing prices. I barely sell outside the US anyway.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Pelagios said:


> Interesting, I'm seeing the opposite. Google have removed almost all the discount from my new prices, making them look very expensive indeed!


That's what I am hoping for. Soon as they do, I'll put the price I really want in and bob's your uncle


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

CEMartin2 said:


> Ignoring the VAT and not changing prices. I barely sell outside the US anyway.


Not an option for me. As soon as I figured out Kobo and Google, I had to play nice and offer same pricing to all. It's only fair. Permafree has really started up EU sales that's for sure. They love free. Weird that the Brits don't seem to. I'm one, and I like a freebie.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Jane_Dough said:


> I'm rather lost on this whole thing. How do you know how much to raise the price?


Vat differs in various countries. I haven't bothered to track individual taxes. The average is 20% tax now (used to be 3% for example) France raised its to 5%, which is technically naughty the way I understand things. EU pricing is "supposed" to be uniform, but as always, various governments try to pull shenanigans to gain advantage over others. I just added 20% to my old price, looked at them, frowned a bit, and rounded UP to the nearest .99

Not very technical, but my prices have been the same since 2011ish on my oldest books, so it was time they went up a bit anyway. The bills here in the UK have certainly not waited for anyone to earn enough to cope. 50p more per book, or closer to £1 in some case is justified in my own mind  If it isn't in the reader's minds, then I'll have to rethink things. It's not as if prices are set in stone yet. Depends on where subscription services go this year, that will ultimately decide my fate I suspect. Audible is already a subscription service, and Amazon "seems" intent on making kindle the same.

We'll see.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

Consumers expect to pay more, when sales taxes rise. (Don't you, as a consumer?).

Only self-published authors who imagine that low prices are what sells their books, and whose marketing perceptions revolve around "competing on price" would dream of absorbing VAT increases out of their own profits. You won't find trade-publishers who sell via their own websites absorbing the tax increase from their own profits, and you shouldn't find self-published author booksellers doing that either. But there'll be some, doubtless. 

And a Happy New Year to all authors.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I raised my prices as I'd been underpricing in the UK for ages anyway. Now my UK and US prices are more or less the same.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

I put my prices on KDP back to what they were. My little gift to my fellow EUsers.



DebBennett said:


> From Smashwords email: _As one Smashwords retailer told me, "We're all getting hit with the same stick here."_
> 
> Er - I don't think so! The big guys are VAT registered and can simply claim it back as input tax. It makes no difference to them what the VAT rate is.


Incorrect. Do the maths. For every one of us who does not raise their price the retailers are getting their cut out of a lower margin. VAT registered businesses are usually not paying VAT on B2B transactions so there is not much to claim back. VAT is something to collect from end-users on behalf of the states and hand it to the tax office.


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## Error404 (Sep 6, 2012)

I raised my prices.  If the EU citizens want to lower the prices they can through their governments.


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

I just took all my books off sale in EU countries. Problem solved!


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

I've been VAT-inclusive wherever possible from the start. I'm currently focusing more on building my title list than I am the prices. Once I have sufficient backlist to carry out the plans I have for playing more with prices—or as I adjust titles for other reasons—I'll reconsider pricing based on "new" VAT rates, but for now, I have too much other stuff to get done to fret about it. *shrug*


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Thaddeus Wainwright said:


> I just took all my books off sale in EU countries. Problem solved!


Not for someone, like me, who makes the bulk of my income there!


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## Jennifer R P (Oct 19, 2012)

I raised prices, because I don't want to deal with and mess with Amazon price matching stuff, as Amazon has made it fairly clear they expect us to raise prices. (At my sales volume, who really cares anyway).


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Is anyone having trouble raising prices on iTunes Connect? I have all my novels at USD $3.99, and want to raise the European prices to 3.99 EUR -- but the highest tier Apple is giving me is 2.99 EUR. That will be higher than most KDP adjusted prices. Anyone else have this problem?

Haven't even looked at Nook and Kobo yet, which will probably have more issues.

I sell quite a bit overseas, so want to get this sorted out. It's a good opportunity to make all the retail prices look even as well (not 3.42 and what have you).


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Google looked fine this morning except for ONE title. They're all the same price initially. What's up with that?


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Gretchen Galway said:


> Is anyone having trouble raising prices on iTunes Connect? I have all my novels at USD $3.99, and want to raise the European prices to 3.99 EUR -- but the highest tier Apple is giving me is 2.99 EUR. That will be higher than most KDP adjusted prices. Anyone else have this problem?
> 
> Haven't even looked at Nook and Kobo yet, which will probably have more issues.
> 
> I sell quite a bit overseas, so want to get this sorted out. It's a good opportunity to make all the retail prices look even as well (not 3.42 and what have you).


All the tiers should be available right down to free. Just click and scroll.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

The highest I can scroll to is EUR 2.99 (Tier 6). Wonder what I'm doing wrong. Is there a cap based on the USD price?


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

I think Amazon is already price matching me in EU stores, so I've got some work to do.
So far, it's more the UK store I'm worried about than the other EU countries, but at least in the KDP dashboard I was able to see all the changed prices, and what they would have been without VAT. So I've got to go into the territorial dashboard on D2D and make some changes.
This is giving me a little bit of a headache.
I don't know what's going on in GP right now either.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

Gretchen Galway said:


> The highest I can scroll to is EUR 2.99 (Tier 6). Wonder what I'm doing wrong. Is there a cap based on the USD price?


Nope, no cap. I know this because during my pricing updates today I accidentally priced one title at $3.99 and EUR29.99 &#128516;

(What's up with the euro symbol on this board?)


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

Regarding the iTunes problem: I found an earlier thread that explains the problem I was having.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=176314.0

I had to raise my prices using iTunes Producer, redefining all my books as Digital Only and overriding the price to EUR 3.99 and resubmitting the book. I couldn't do this from iTunes Connect.

The thread above suggests why I had the problem. Thank God for kboards...


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## Cactus Lady (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm raising my prices. I'm not able to vote for the leaders who impose those taxes and rules, and I don't benefit from the programs funded by those taxes. So why should I pay the taxes instead of the people who live in the EU, who can vote for those governments and who benefit from the programs? I like to offer my readers a fair deal and good value, but I'm not a charity.



Error404 said:


> I raised my prices. If the EU citizens want to lower the prices they can through their governments.


Exactly.


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

Thaddeus Wainwright said:


> I just took all my books off sale in EU countries. Problem solved!


Except fro me, I live in Europe and now won't be buying your books. But I'm sure I'll find other books to buy


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

Kyra Halland said:


> I'm raising my prices. I'm not able to vote for the leaders who impose those taxes and rules, and I don't benefit from the programs funded by those taxes. So why should I pay the taxes instead of the people who live in the EU, who can vote for those governments and who benefit from the programs? I like to offer my readers a fair deal and good value, but I'm not a charity.
> 
> Exactly.


I don't understand why people are saying that they have raised their prices. When I logged into KDP this morning all my prices had been changed. The $2.99 that I set was converted to €2.60(£1.85 ) and then the relevant VAT was added for each of the European stores. So I am still getting the same €1.81 for each sale as I was before. The price the readers pay has gone up, but the price that I'm charging has remained the same.


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

Error404 said:


> I raised my prices. If the EU citizens want to lower the prices they can through their governments.


The UK and Ireland have 0% VAT on books and many other European have lower VAT rates for Books(though I can't find a convenient list). But the problem is that eBooks are classified as software and not books. So they get the higher VAT rate.
There have been many calls, from both indie-authors and small publishers, but not from big publishing, for governments to charge eBooks at the same rate as printed books, but somehow governments are reluctant to cut taxes.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

I've just noticed something weird.

I'm in the UK. I went to my KDP dashboard to start checking/fixing prices, where most of them showed increased prices.
Part-way through, I went to my Author page on UK and noticed that the prices were unchanged from what they were last week - eg this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00H2WE94C
shows as £1.15 on KDP but it's showing as £0.99 on the Amazon page (which is what it was last week).

All my other books are similarly showing their old prices on the live sale pages.

Has anyone got any bright idea what's up?


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Gretchen Galway said:


> Is anyone having trouble raising prices on iTunes Connect? I have all my novels at USD $3.99, and want to raise the European prices to 3.99 EUR -- but the highest tier Apple is giving me is 2.99 EUR. That will be higher than most KDP adjusted prices. Anyone else have this problem?


No, have you got a low print price set, I ran into that problem before.



shimmering said:


> Does anyone know the deal with Nook? I was expecting that in the UK store today they would add on 20% UK VAT onto the list price as they promised they would in the email they sent me the other day. But no, the price is still the same, and it still says VAT included (obviously...).
> 
> I got an email from Nook the other day explaining that:
> 
> Is that just wrong?


That email puzzled me because Nook had always included VAT in the price and warned you to take that into account when setting GBP and Euro prices. Maybe a bit of confusion as Nook close down their Luxembourg office and head back to New York.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2015)

Roz Marshall said:


> I've just noticed something weird.
> 
> I'm in the UK. I went to my KDP dashboard to start checking/fixing prices, where most of them showed increased prices.
> Part-way through, I went to my Author page on UK and noticed that the prices were unchanged from what they were last week - eg this book:
> ...


Isn't 99p the lowest price you can have on .co.uk - so, in that case the VAT has 'maybe' been added to the price.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

They no longer allow you to price your books under 0.99 in the UK and Europe. I had no choice to but raise them. 

For my novel, I kept the same prices. I think I'm losing a few cents a sale in the UK, but I don't really care.

Rue


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

For some reason, the quote feature isn't working for me, so:

Lance said:

_"I don't understand why people are saying that they have raised their prices. When I logged into KDP this morning all my prices had been changed. The $2.99 that I set was converted to �2.60(£1.85 ) and then the relevant VAT was added for each of the European stores. So I am still getting the same �1.81 for each sale as I was before. The price the readers pay has gone up, but the price that I'm charging has remained the same."_

I'm confused by this, too. I received an email from Amazon saying I didn't have to do anything - that they had already made the necessary adjustments. Is this not correct? Did something change that I missed?


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

I'm not sure what to do. Up until now, I have priced the majority of my short/novelettes at 99 pence, cents, etc. I prefer to have the same sale price on all stores, regardless of country, so I don't know whether to take the hit or not. I mostly sell in the US with the UK coming a close second. This is on Amazon. I haven't looked at my data for B&N etc to see where I am selling the most.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

carinasanfey said:


> No, the price you're charging has changed, because the price you input is no longer the price you charge. On top of that, people publishing across multiple platforms have to raise their prices on other platforms, otherwise Amazon will price-match to their old price and the author will lose out.


It is a legal requirement in the EU to display VAT inclusive prices to customers. Even if you had previously set Google Play to tax exclusive pricing in EU territories Amazon did not have access to that data. All they could access was the VAT inclusive price on the Google Play website and compare it to the VAT inclusive price on the equivalent Amazon store.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm raising my prices in the UK (where I make a pretty decent chunk of change). My stuff in the other areas is minimal. I'll watch it, but I'm not changing it for now.


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

carinasanfey said:


> No, the price you're charging has changed, because the price you input is no longer the price you charge. On top of that, people publishing across multiple platforms have to raise their prices on other platforms, otherwise Amazon will price-match to their old price and the author will lose out.


Yes, I was forgetting about the other vendors(I recently went "all in" on KDP-Select). So basically people are increasing the prices on Google Play and the other stores to match the VAT inclusive prices for Amazon's European stores, so that amazon doesn't price match the lower price. I was reading the posts as people were increasing the prices in their KDP dashboards.

How does that work with Apple, don't they already include VAT and always round the prices to end in .49 or .99?
And does Amazon price match the VAT inclusive or the Ex-VAT price?


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

I raised all of my UK and Euro prices  on kobo, B&N, and I-tunes to match the new prices on Amazon. The other ones I'm not worrying about, as I seldom sell in, say, Japan.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Does anyone have a handy chart of what prices should be raised to to compensate for VAT?


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Vaalingrade said:


> Does anyone have a handy chart of what prices should be raised to to compensate for VAT?


If you can do simple spreadsheet formulas you could set one up where you enter the price in one column and the next column adds on the VAT. E.g, if column A is the EU state (and row 4 is UK) and column B is the price you enter and column C has the formula =SUM(B4*1.2) then entering 3.99 in column B on row 4 would give you a result in column C of 4.78. That formula is written for Excel, but I don't think other spreadsheets would be too different. It is multiplied by 1.2 because the UK VAT rate is 20%. If Ireland was in row 3 it would be =SUM(B4*1.23)

You can keep up to date on VAT rates and news at VAT Live 
http://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/european-vat-rates/eu-vat-rates/


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

TobiasRoote said:


> Isn't 99p the lowest price you can have on .co.uk - so, in that case the VAT has 'maybe' been added to the price.


99p is the lowest *VAT inclusive* price you can charge (which is what my old price was, with 3% VAT, ie 96p w/o VAT).

They are showing the VAT-inclusive price as being 1.15 now on the KDP dashboard, so I'd expect that to be the live price in the store - but it's 99p...

Is Amazon still showing old prices for 3 days or something, to give us time to fix our prices on the Dashboard, so customers see more 'normal' prices?


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

I don't sell that many in Europe, so for now I'm taking the hit. Maybe it will increase my EU sales. If so, I'll reexamine the issue at that time.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Roz Marshall said:


> 99p is the lowest *VAT inclusive* price you can charge (which is what my old price was, with 3% VAT, ie 96p w/o VAT).
> 
> They are showing the VAT-inclusive price as being 1.15 now on the KDP dashboard, so I'd expect that to be the live price in the store - but it's 99p...
> 
> Is Amazon still showing old prices for 3 days or something, to give us time to fix our prices on the Dashboard, so customers see more 'normal' prices?


You'll find it is price matching someone somewhere. The price you input at KDP is now the exact figure that will appear on sales pages. Amazon have caught up with all other channels who've been doing this since forever. For those using multiple channels like me, decide what you want to show on the amazon sales page, and make sure you input that figure everywhere except Google Play, or else you will have price match to old prices. Google Play as usual needs at least 24% higher price than Amazon, and even more in some cases, but you get a ton more royalty for it.


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## Fredster (Apr 11, 2011)

LanceGreencastle said:


> Except fro me, I live in Europe and now won't be buying your books. But I'm sure I'll find other books to buy


I'm sure you will -- there are millions from which to choose.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> You'll find it is price matching someone somewhere. The price you input at KDP is now the exact figure that will appear on sales pages.


Ain't that either - all but one of my stories are in Select, so no price-matching to worry about.

I re-read what the email said, and it was (something like) '*starting* 1 January'. So maybe the database updates haven't just got up to my lowly books yet...


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Roz Marshall said:


> Ain't that either - all but one of my stories are in Select, so no price-matching to worry about.
> 
> I re-read what the email said, and it was (something like) '*starting* 1 January'. So maybe the database updates haven't just got up to my lowly books yet...


It could also be something weird that I have noticed happens sometimes. Sometimes a permafree book of mine will go back to paid in the uk for example, but stay free in the US, but when I go to the US page I see a price that matches in USD my UK price. To see the truth, I use a free proxy https://hide.me/en/proxy


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

It occurs to me that a real retailer would have just raised the sales price to include the sales tax instead of punting and making the vendors take a paycut so they don't have to raise the price on their own.

Oh look, Smashwords of all channels did that and so did Google. Google even went out of their way to point out that this was _their responsibility_.

Now, I don't expect Amazon to be any other way because they have a barely concealed indifference toward us, but I'm shocked D2D doesn't have a quick tool to do this without busting out the slide rule like Smashy did.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Okay, so I spent a little time going over some currency conversions and I have some helpful data for people looking to raise their prices to get a comparable royalty to USD.

At 2.99, the royalty hit is negligible if Amazon's royalty estimate tool is to be believed. In fact, FR seems to be paying MORE than the USD equivalent somehow.

At 3.99, you are losing small change (as in the expected royalty is $2.76 and the DE payout is equivalent to $2.75. It really depends on your volume to decide if you should care.

At 8.99 (I don't have anything at the other levels), You are getting your jimmies squarely kicked up inside of you and to get parity, you need to raise prices to 6.85 GBP or 8.85 EUR.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Mercia McMahon said:


> It is a legal requirement in the EU to display VAT inclusive prices to customers. Even if you had previously set Google Play to tax exclusive pricing in EU territories Amazon did not have access to that data. All they could access was the VAT inclusive price on the Google Play website and compare it to the VAT inclusive price on the equivalent Amazon store.


Thank you! You have saved me a ton of work at GP. So if I set a tax exclusive price at GP, the price they show to EU customers is my price PLUS the VAT? (not accounting for their auto discount here). Is that correct? So Amazon aren't matching their new inclusive price to the lower exclusive price? I was starting to get worried about this. I've updated all my prices everywhere except GP. Going from an exclusive to inclusive price, adjusting for their auto discount as well as not being able to see the final UK price was making my head explode. I have a lot of books.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

CJArcher said:


> Thank you! You have saved me a ton of work at GP. So if I set a tax exclusive price at GP, the price they show to EU customers is my price PLUS the VAT? (not accounting for their auto discount here). Is that correct? So Amazon aren't matching their new inclusive price to the lower exclusive price? I was starting to get worried about this. I've updated all my prices everywhere except GP. Going from an exclusive to inclusive price, adjusting for their auto discount as well as not being able to see the final UK price was making my head explode. I have a lot of books.


You have to remember that this is Google we are talking about, so what they do with prices is uncertain and I suspect that they have been eating the VAT themselves despite being based in Ireland which at 23% has one of the highest VAT rates in the EU. The facts are that your Amazon.co.uk price for Heart Burn is £2.48 and on Google it is £2.48 (reduced from £6.7.

While I was researching that I noticed your freebie and got it. That view across the river to the Houses of Parliament is one of my favourite in London, of course nowadays if she kept walking in the direction she is facing she would end up rubbing noses with James Bond at MI5.


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## SB James (May 21, 2014)

What I did this morning (EST) was to look at the KDP Rights and Royalties chart for the books I charge USD $3.99. I noted that the EU countries were being charged EURO 3.21 without the VAT, and anywhere from EURO 3.39 to 3.89 with it. I then looked at my book on the EU Amazon stores and it had looked like the pricing had not been really adjusted. I assumed Amazon was price matching B&N and my other D2D sales outlets, so I went to D2D and went to the territorial pricing area in the pricing dashboard. I took an average of the Amazon EU stores' VAT inclusive prices and thus priced my D2D $3.99 books to EURO 3.75 VAT inclusive and £2.99 for UK with VAT included.
Now I wait to see, once those prices all go live, whether or not Amazon fixes it on their own or if I'm going to have to remind them...


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

For some reason I can't quote in Kboards right now. So anyway...

@Mercia - thanks for picking up the freebie. Hope you like it. Google have been discounting more than their usual amount on some of my books, including that one. So I've upped the price by a solid amount to compensate for Amazon price matching. I might experiment with upping them again. 

Question for you and everyone - do Google discount consistently from territory to territory? As I said, some of my books are being discounted by more than their usual amount - here in Australia anyway. Is it possible they're NOT discounting to the same degree elsewhere? How can I check? (I know how to switch territories in iBooks, but not on GP).


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

OK, so the Quote function isn't working for me either.
This is in reply to SB James:
Don't forget that amazon will show you the price biased on where you are in the world. I'm in Ireland and when I look at amazon.com I get the US price plus Irish VAT. So when you look at the EU amazon store you are probably getting the ex-VAT price. If the price is the same in each country's kindle store it's definitely the ex-VAT price.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Please people, why are you STILL saying you cannot see the prices on different stores? Am I the only one who uses a free proxy to view the stores? How many times do I have to put a link in various posts here? Does KNOW ONE read them and apply the same idea to other things like Google?
> 
> Sorry, it's just that I see this day after day here on kboards. No one reads an answer on one post and applies it to a problem in the next post. Google free proxy, enter your sales link and choose the correct country. DONE.


KNOW ONE.?


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

Whew, upped all my prices at last.

I used to price like so:

$5.99 / £3.99 / €4.99
$4.99 / £2.99 / €3.99
$3.99 / £2.49 / €2.99
$2.99 / £1.99 / €2.49

Now:
$5.99 / £4.99 / $5.99
$4.99 / £3.49 / €4.99
$3.99 / £2.99 / €3.99
$2.99 / £2.49 / €2.99

The best way I could balance my own income with the prices looking 'right' and without too much of a hike for my readers. So for example, I didn't put anything at £4.49 as to me - a UK reader - it just doesn't look right for a novel (£4.99 looks good for a box set). £3.49 looks great and about what I'd pay for a novel.

Plus, those changes mean I make almost exactly what I made before, which works out pretty fair.

Now to wait for Apple to hurry up and change them...


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

thewitt said:


> KNOW ONE.?


Okay, ignore the message for a spelling critique. I'll go back and fix it for you. Have a nice day.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Okay, ignore the message for a spelling critique. I'll go back and fix it for you. Have a nice day.


Just seemed the ultimate irony as you were scolding people for their lack of intelligence... I have no problem checking my prices.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

thewitt said:


> Just seemed the ultimate irony as you were scolding people for their lack of intelligence... I have no problem checking my prices.


I guess it just goes to show that even intelligent people aren't perfect and even writers make typos. I know ...shocking, isn't it?


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Guys, the pricing calculator on the Amazon thing tells you your price, price without VAT and the projected royalty.

All you have to do is Google 'x GBP/EUR in USD' where x is your US royalty, then change your price until the calculator shows that your EU royalties are equal or near your US royalty.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

This all seems pretty confusing  
I was just going to wait until Amazon changed my prices for me (which I though they were going to do as a one off?) then follow that in future.
Is this not a good idea?


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Gah, what a mess. I am terrible with math.

Looking today, I see that at Kobo in the UK, my books are displaying 2.83 which would include VAT, so WH Smith added the extra tax, rather than take it out of the currently specified price.  (They are set at 2.36)

I go through D2D for B&N and that's listing as 2.42 for the Nook, and at Amazon at 2.42, so I'm taking a hit there.

I have no idea how to find my book at iTunes or Google with the UK price showing (especially considering Google's putzing around with discounts). 

I may just nudge my UK books up in a "splitting the difference" sort of way and call it day. The others aren't really big income countries for me.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

What is the rate or highest rate? Is it 22% on top? If so would raising my prices by 22% in the Amazon.com store then letting everywhere else covert to follow suit do the trick, or can anyone envisage any problems with this idea?


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Quiss said:


> Looking today, I see that at Kobo in the UK, my books are displaying 2.83 which would include VAT, so WH Smith added the extra tax, rather than take it out of the currently specified price. (They are set at 2.36)


£2.83 is the price on Kobo UK, but I don't know why as no VAT is added to my prices. Sterling prices on Kobo are supposed to be tax inclusive. Maybe their system is confused if the base currency is from outside the EU.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

I have tried repeatedly to raise the price of one of my books from 2.99 to 3.99 in the UK, and for some reason have been blocked from changing it. I changed all my prices in the UK and EU for the new VAT tax, but they didn't all go through. Has this happened to anyone else? Check your prices.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

Well I created a spreadsheet, with the EU VAT percent for each country as well as the current dollar to pound/euro ratio as well. Then went through and updated all of my Amazon prices. Interestingly enough, Amazon hasn't update the conversation rate on a lot of the books, so a number of my books actually dropped in price (but not by much). 
One of the nicer things I found is that France only has a 5.5 percent rate on ebooks. So I cut my French prices accordingly.


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## thewitt (Dec 5, 2014)

Italy just changed the rules again:

Lastly, as of January 1, 2015, Italy has put in place a new law. Applicable VAT for eBooks sold in Italy will depend on whether the book has an ISBN. All eBooks with an ISBN will have a 4% VAT rate and eBooks without an ISBN will have a 22% VAT rate. This is the rate that is added to your price on January 1st and is the rate deducted when an Italian customer purchases your book. If you obtain an ISBN after January 1st, the 4% VAT rate will then apply for future sales but we will not adjust your list price automatically.


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## JRHolmes (Mar 6, 2014)

Cute way to target a tax largely against the "hated Amazon" where most of the non-ISBN users have appeared.

I wonder if they considered a specific tax against ISBNs registered to CreateSpace as well.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Lots of Italians use the Italian distributor Narcissus for all channels including Amazon and Narcissus provides an ISBN.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

JRHolmes said:


> Cute way to target a tax largely against the "hated Amazon" where most of the non-ISBN users have appeared.
> 
> I wonder if they considered a specific tax against ISBNs registered to CreateSpace as well.


More to do with the fact that EU regulations only allow a differential VAT rate for eBooks if it is to match print books, which require an ISBN. Very few epub retailers require ISBNs now, they are encouraged but not required, so this is not an Amazon-specific issue.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Marian said:


> I have tried repeatedly to raise the price of one of my books from 2.99 to 3.99 in the UK, and for some reason have been blocked from changing it. I changed all my prices in the UK and EU for the new VAT tax, but they didn't all go through. Has this happened to anyone else? Check your prices.


Yes, because they price matched Google for me.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Extra fun: If you're priced at $9.99 now, you pretty much _have_ to eat the VAT or Amazon will boot you back to 35%. Just got an email clarifying their chicanery.


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## Lia Cooper (Jan 28, 2014)

zoe tate said:


> Consumers expect to pay more, when sales taxes rise. (Don't you, as a consumer?).


this ^^

it's a tax. it's a tax in for a different country on purchases made by people in that country. i own a cafe, we have sales tax in my state, that means i have to charge sales tax, collect it, and file it with the correct agency. it's a really bizarre idea to me that people are talking about "eating" the EU's tax....


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## suspensefulCJ (Nov 8, 2013)

Taking the hit for the next 12 months. I am getting some great traction on the foreign sites at the moment (4 digits at this point); I'd like to grow that right now. I'm hoping my foreign growth will make up for the 20% hit KU cost me. 



I'm not too worried about Italy; I have my own ISBNS, and I don't sell too much there anyway.


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## Leanne King (Oct 2, 2012)

Vaalingrade said:


> Extra fun: If you're priced at $9.99 now, you pretty much _have_ to eat the VAT or Amazon will boot you back to 35%. Just got an email clarifying their chicanery.


Only in countries where the VAT rate is > 20%, which is the minority. Otherwise you're fine.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Lia Cooper said:


> this ^^
> 
> it's a tax. it's a tax in for a different country on purchases made by people in that country. i own a cafe, we have sales tax in my state, that means i have to charge sales tax, collect it, and file it with the correct agency. it's a really bizarre idea to me that people are talking about "eating" the EU's tax....


Actually, readers in the EU don't expect to pay more for e-books or anything else, because the VAT rates themselves haven't changed, only the manner of calculation has. And while businesspeople who trade across borders are generally aware of the tax changes, ordinary customers aren't, because it doesn't affect them. I didn't see the VAT calculation changes listed in any of the "Laws that change on January 1" lists in the media, because ordinary customers don't have to calculate VAT.

In Europe, all prices are VAT inclusive. The VAT is isted on the receipt or invoice, but few people look at it in depth. And I don't think many people are aware that Amazon or Apple or the other online retailers they buy from are based in Luxembourg and charge the lower Luxembourg VAT.

Besides, whenever there has been an actual VAT change in the past, low priced products like 99 cent loss leaders always kept costing 99 cents, while the retailer ate the VAT difference. It was only with high-priced products like cars, refridgerators, etc... that the VAT increase was passed on.

I think it's a mentality difference between the US, which puts fictitious prices onto stickers and then adds the tax at the cash register, making it very difficult to figure out how much something really costs, and Europe where prices are always VAT inclusive.

Anyway, I'm not raising my prices, though it annoys me that I had to waste two hours to go through all my books (and I have 66) to undo the price increases Amazon made, because they are still not able to grasp the concept of VAT and how it's calculated.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Actually, readers in the EU don't expect to pay more for e-books or anything else, because the VAT rates themselves haven't changed, only the manner of calculation has.


Actually, it's my understanding that print is 0% VAT, ebooks WERE 3% in the UK, but now ebooks are 20% here. Some countries charge 23%, while others (cough cough France) are 5% The real change is that although Amazon is incorporated in Luxembourg where the local VAT is 3%, it can no longer charge a flat 3%. It must charge the local rate of the buyer.


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## Lia Cooper (Jan 28, 2014)

i have actually worked in a few restaurants that for the sake of not handling pennies made their listed prices tax inclusive and worked their menu prices to end in 0's and 5 cent increments. that doesn't mean the owner was offsetting in some way the total amount of sales tax being charged to the customer.

Whether you list a tax invisibly (by including it in the listed price) or calculate it in at checkout, the point I was trying to make is that it's a tax on the _end-consumer_ and it seems a little silly for indie sellers to be talking about "eating" it.

and while there has been a VAT charge, the difference between losing 3% and 20-35% is not something i think most of us want to handwave


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Lia Cooper said:


> Whether you list a tax invisibly (by including it in the listed price) or calculate it in at checkout, the point I was trying to make is that it's a tax on the _end-consumer_ and it seems a little silly for indie sellers to be talking about "eating" it.


I'm sure I must be misunderstanding you somehow, but if my books had £2.99 on sales pages before the change, and I want to maintain that exact number on the sales page, I am indeed "eating it" because the price is now inclusive of vat. I was already eating the 3% voluntarily (by listing at £2.90 to get that nice £2.99 on sales pages) but I can't sanction increasing my "meal" by an extra 17% So I put my prices up to cover that.


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

Quiss said:


> I have no idea how to find my book at iTunes or Google with the UK price showing (especially considering Google's putzing around with discounts).


Chris, here are your iTunes books in the UK:

```
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/artist/chris-reher/id556164793
```
 (KB redirects the link to Apple's _U.S._ store , so you'll need to copy and paste the actual link text into your browser rather than using "select" or clicking on the link above.)

If you want to view prices in other countries, replace *gb* in the link above with *us* (United States), *de* (Germany), etc.


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## D/W (Dec 29, 2010)

From Lulu, the EU *eBook* VAT rates for each country are shown below. I highlighted the European Amazon Kindle web stores that currently sell ebooks.


Austria
20%

Belgium
20%

Bulgaria
20%

Croatia
25%

Cyprus
19%

Czech Republic
21%

Denmark
25% Estonia
20%

Finland
24%

*France
5.50%*

*Germany
19%*

Greece
23%

Hungary
27%

Ireland
23% *Italy
22%*

Latvia
21%

Lithuania
21%

Luxembourg
3%

Malta
18%

*Netherlands
21%*

Poland
23% Portugal
23%

Romania
24%

Slovakia
20%

Slovenia
22%

*Spain
21%*

Sweden
25%

*UK
20%*

Amazon has a similar list, but it includes VAT rates for both ebooks and print books (where applicable) as well as other items, so it may be a bit more confusing: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=502578


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Actually, it's my understanding that print is 0% VAT, ebooks WERE 3% in the UK, but now ebooks are 20% here. Some countries charge 23%, while others (cough cough France) are 5% The real change is that although Amazon is incorporated in Luxembourg where the local VAT is 3%, it can no longer charge a flat 3%. It must charge the local rate of the buyer.


The VAT rate charged on e-books in the UK was always 20% and if you bought e-books from a UK based retailer like Waterstone's or W.H. Smith, the price included 20% VAT. However, Amazon could get away with charging 3% (reduced Luxembourg VAT), because all European Amazons were based on Luxembourg. Now, however, it doesn't matter where the seller is based, because VAT is charged according to the rate in the buyer's country.

This legal change is a big deal for anybody selling anything at all online and for anybody trading across borders. However, it's not a big deal for a regular consumer. They might notice that some prices in some online stores have risen, but they likely have no idea why. And at least in Germany, the change will only affect some self-published e-books, because Germany has a fixed book price agreement, so trad publishers have no choice but to eat the difference. New e-books may become more expensive, but existing books won't.

As for eating the VAT difference, that's my choice. Everybody else is free to make their own. My reasoning was that prices on most other platforms are already VAT inclusive and that Amazon was only following suit.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

I think my comment may have got lost in the discussion so without meaning to annoy anyone with repetition, If you don't all mind I'll ask again. From thee table which has been helpfully posted I think it looks as though the highest rate is about 24%. So if I were to raise my Amazon .com price by the 24% and leave the box ticked so the rest converts across the board, do you think this should cover me in all areas? Or does anyone foresee any problems with this strategy?


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Amazon UK are price matching ALL my books down to the Nook UK price (not GP). It seems Smashwords haven't filtered the price change through yet even though I clicked that button 3 days ago. This is costing me and I'm not happy about it.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

DreamWeaver said:


> From Lulu, the EU *eBook* VAT rates for each country are shown below. I highlighted the European Amazon Kindle web stores that currently sell ebooks.


The list is out of date. Malta is 5% and Italy is 4% if using an ISBN.


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## Mopsy (Jan 4, 2015)

CJArcher said:


> Amazon UK are price matching ALL my books down to the Nook UK price (not GP). It seems Smashwords haven't filtered the price change through yet even though I clicked that button 3 days ago. This is costing me and I'm not happy about it.


This is happening to me as well. I just undistributed from Nook's European stores, because I only sell well on the US site, whereas my Amazon UK sales are significant. I think I'm being matched to Google but I can't figure out how to look at Google Play for other countries.

I have to say I'm disappointed. A week of leeway would have been nice, especially considering that it took Amazon themselves an entire day to make the changes, and they've got more money and programmers than God.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Yes, because they price matched Google for me.


My price is higher everywhere else. I'll have to send an email to them. AArrrrgh!


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