# Maps for the Fantasy Writer/Reader: An essential or an embellishment?



## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Hello everyone,
    It seems I've been posting a lot of new discussions lately, but all these questions seem to be coming up at once.  My newest interest concerns fantasy writers/readers: when reading a fantasy that takes place in a different world, do you have to have a map printed in the beginning of the book?  Now, I myself adore maps and especially find them useful when reading about an unfamiliar place, but I have also found that if a book does not provide the map, I can live without it (but it annoys me - I will often times stop reading mid-sentence and flip back to the beginning of the book to consult the map before going on).  So, here is the question I pose for you:  are maps helpful to you as you read the story, or are they just a fancy decoration that only enhances the story?  
-Jenna


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

Maps are fun but I hardly ever refer to them mid-story.  I think if the story is well written you really shouldn't need an external map to keep up with what's going on or where you are.  They're nice and it's definitely a valuable addition to the book, but most times I will just glance at it and keep on moving then never see it again.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Maps are a nice extra, but as long as the author is clear in their writing, I find them unnecessary.  I rarely if ever flip back to one mid-story, although I will glance it in the beginning of a book to get familiar with place names.


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## evpseeker (May 29, 2009)

I'll have to cast my vote for fancy decoration. I may glance at a map as I'm thumbing my way thru to get to the beginning chapter.

Altho with my Kindle I don't do any thumbing these days.


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## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Hmmm, I haven't really considered "flipping back" to a map on Kindle.  I don't own a Kindle as of yet, so thumbing back to the map wouldn't be much trouble since I still read the traditional paperback.  I would think you would have to "scroll back" to the map on a Kindle, and I could see where that would be monstrous inconvenient  
-Jenna


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## 1131 (Dec 18, 2008)

J.E.Johnson said:


> Hmmm, I haven't really considered "flipping back" to a map on Kindle. I don't own a Kindle as of yet, so thumbing back to the map wouldn't be much trouble since I still read the traditional paperback. I would think you would have to "scroll back" to the map on a Kindle, and I could see where that would be monstrous inconvenient
> -Jenna


Flipping back on the Kindle is easy, you just bookmark the page and, in a couple of clicks, you're there. I flip around in books all the time on the Kindle.

In answer to the maps question. They are nice addition but don't find myself looking at them while reading. They have been helpful for some of the longer series (like the Pern books) because you go to so many places on that world.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Because I give away large posters of the Alterran map at signings, I get a lot of feedback on this question. Granted, all of the comments are being made by print book readers, but the majority indicate that maps are very important to them. I have received many comments concerning the maps in the trilogy; mostly that they are beautiful (which they are, and I cannot take credit for them), but also that they should be in the front of the books rather than the back. The readers who complain about location are actually referring to the maps while reading.

As a reader, I rarely consult the maps, though I might occasionally during a tricky bit of travel. Usually the words paint a vivid enough picture. Remember, though, that there are readers who are...ummm...shall we say 'obsessive'?  They'll actually challenge the contention that a journey can be made in the time indicated, and they'll get their calipers out and measure the distances on the map to prove it.  

I believe a quality map enhances the professionalism of any fantasy book. An amateurish one detracts. A truly fine one is a piece of art!


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## Scheherazade (Apr 11, 2009)

archer said:


> I believe a quality map enhances the professionalism of any fantasy book. An amateurish one detracts. A truly fine one is a piece of art!


I think that bit right there is the most important thing to keep in mind.

And yes, I would agree that if you have a map then put it in the front of the book. Otherwise someone might read all the way through without knowing it's even there. I know several Kindle books actually have maps in them but you wouldn't know unless you went back to the cover and NEXT PAGEd your way forward, because the book "begins" with the first page of text which is beyond the map.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Point taken!

Putting them in the front is a good idea...particularly if one is designing/formatting for Kindle and not for print. I chose the back because I have appendices in book one, and the maps seem to fit best there. By the time we get to book three we have five maps spanning seven pages. I'd hate to put THAT many in the front! But, again, I was arranging a printed book, not a Kindlebook. 

Readers probably won't even find the maps in the kindle versions until they get to the end!


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## Athenagwis (Apr 2, 2009)

archer said:


> Point taken!
> 
> Putting them in the front is a good idea...particularly if one is designing/formatting for Kindle and not for print. I chose the back because I have appendices in book one, and the maps seem to fit best there. By the time we get to book three we have five maps spanning seven pages. I'd hate to put THAT many in the front! But, again, I was arranging a printed book, not a Kindlebook.
> 
> Readers probably won't even find the maps in the kindle versions until they get to the end!


Well if you can do it, you could always put a link to the maps (that are at the end of the book) at the beginning just as you would with chapters in a table of contents. Then you wouldn't take up the much room for when people sample, but people would know where they are if they want to refer to them.

I also agree that it would be easy to flip to a map, using a bookmark to mark the page you are currently on.

I don't think a map is *necessary* per say, but I do think it is a fun and beautiful addition to a book and should be seriously considered by a fantasy writer.

Rachel


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I like maps for stories that move around an area. Especially if it's a place I'm unfamiliar with. This would include something you made up. 

I find it harder to figure out where I'm going with a word description than with a map. If people tell me how to get to a place, I will trace it out on a map so I have that picture in my mind. I really don't like trying to find a new place with _just_ written directions. I like to look at a map and more or less memorize it so I have the picture in my mind. My whole family is this way.

So, I say YES to maps. Paper books usually have them in the front. . .I like the idea of, for a Kindle edition, putting them in back but linking with the ToC to avoid wasting sample space. Also, you could put a link to the map at the beginning of each new chapter if you wanted. . . .which would be good if it is a very traveling sort of story.


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## Athenagwis (Apr 2, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Also, you could put a link to the map at the beginning of each new chapter if you wanted. . . .which would be good if it is a very traveling sort of story.


These are the things that make Kindle so different from a hard copy of a book, the ability to link to things within your book. An author could have a full map of the whole land, and then have separate maps for each chapter to show more close up where they are traveling that chapter. This wouldn't work as well in paperback I think, but with the ease of links, it would be fun on the Kindle! You could link to the map at the beginning (or end) of the chapter, and then link back to the chapter on the map. I cannot wait for authors to become more interactive with eBooks and move away from only things that can be done in paperback.

Rachel


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I have a map of China in the beginning of my books (fantasy books - so I am on topic), but not because readers do not know the terrain of Boggleboogieland or Shindarascaniadevia. One needs a map of the good old Middle Kingdom. Even the Chinese do not know North from South, and that's a traditional attitude, not a disparaging remark. And when a city like Nan-ching changes its name twenty times or when the Yellow River changes course whenever it feels the needs, a map is a good reference point. In my current work, there is so much exciting movment I often have my library of Chinese histrical maps open. My main goal s not to confuse the reader, but to assure that they are anchored without have to jump out of the story to refe to the map. "Now just where are we really." If a fantasy writer is doing their job, they will let the words do the work for them and the reader can imagine (as they should) just where the hell they are. In the meanwhile, I shall continue to live in East Fumblewhickacopia, which is on the Northern border of Hoochpile.   Of course, Tolkien loved to draw maps, but alas he was . . .in his own words . . . a Niggler, and his worlds were as real as . . . China.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Boggleboogieland?

Good heavens. If I were a sensitive fantasy writer, I'd be mildly offended.  

Good thing my world is called 'Alterra', which is not only easy to read, but pronounceable. I thought about 'Shindarascaniadevia', but I wanted to keep my page count low. Ye gods, Ed!


By the way...Whee the hell AM I?


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## Elmore Hammes (Jun 23, 2009)

I like seeing them there, especially when they are embellished with drawings of the creatures of that world/realm, and when they have interesting names for rivers, forests, towns, etc. But I hardly ever refer to them while actually reading the story - they are more of an enjoyable embellishment for use prior to, and after, reading.
Elmore


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Archer:

Being blind in one eye will do that.   And the original nams on that post were too X rated to post.

Ed P


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Aw, DANG! 

I could have used some fine, blue humor this morning.

(And, though I don't really know whee the hell I am, it must be FUN there. WHEE!)

I think I'm gonna call my next character 'Rzschutz'ycha'tlingwyrzsch'yputz!'
What do you think? 

Okay...sorry...I've gotten silly. No more off-topic replies from me

(for a while...)

(until the next one...)


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I have a pure fantasy novel called Belmundus, not published - perhaps 2010 (with so many mms. I have them backed up passed Armegeddon - 2012). Since that one involves succubi (or succabusses?), there's lots of blue humr.    But I won't a map. I think everyone will be able to find he necessary parts ithout one.

Ed Patterson


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## FiveStarAuthor (Aug 9, 2009)

As much as I would like to have had the original map from the hardcover version included in the Kindle version, that was not realistic when I uploaded my first fantasy book way back in the early Kindle days. It was hard enough to upload large files, let alone include artwork of any kind.

That said, comments from readers indicate that the map of medieval Britain is a big help for those unfamiliar with the historical locales. I know from my own reading of LOTR, good maps helped keep me oriented even if they were not to scale.

And yes, some readers are obsessive about details like, "How far is a league?" or "How fast can a medieval ship _really_ sail?" A map should help clarify such questions if the issues are an important story element. Otherwise, they are nice embellishments--much like colorful cover art.

jfb 8/29/09


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## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

It's interesting what everyone has said about being able to link back to the map on the Kindle - I included my map as part of my book, one of the pages before the actual story starts.  I'm a little obsessive about maps (I'm one of those who will watch "City Confidential" on the biography channel and will jump up to get my atlas to see exactly where these places are and what's nearby), so I've actually done over one hundred drawings of the land of Ethöes and its provinces and several closeups.  Maybe I should look into including some of the closeups of Oescienne for the Kindle version.
    Archer, I love your idea of giving out maps to those who purchase your books.  There's going to be a Book and Author Festival in my area in October and I've already made some bookmarks with artwork on them to give away, but an 8.5"x11" color copy of the map would be a nice treat as well (the map is in the front of the book, but it's black and white).
-Jenna


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Hah! Jeff has been working on Ravenshade ALL DAY. Not only are there links to all chapters, but there are links to MAPS! And it works! Woo-de-hoo!

Jen-I give away all kinds of stuff! Anyone who wandered by author's avenue at GenCon was likely to score posters, maps, buttons ('We put the Romance in Necromancer' etc.), Belgian chocolate cookies, mints, and little Snickers bars. My table is a gold mine!


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## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Hey Archer, 
    Too bad you're not going to be at the Book Festival here on the Central Coast; it would be a blast .  I'm going to get to work on those maps though.  AND I think I'll have black and white copies of some of my Ethöen creatures to pass out as coloring sheets for the kids (and the adults who like to color of course ). Those are popular at the school I work at.  
-Jenna


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Errr....what's the Central Coast? 

It would indeed be a blast! Several of my author friends and I definitely livened up GenCon. I'm sure you and I would get into all sorts of mischief.


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## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Archer, 
*The Central Coast:* the far western edge of California running from Monterey in the north to Santa Barbara in the south and going as far inland as the Coastal Range (this is of course, debatable - we native Central Coasters like to keep the eastern border as far west as possible ). We are known for wine producing, strawberries, broccoli and offering a vacation hot spot for those from California's central valley. We are famous for the Pismo clam, the Guadalupe Dunes and Hearst Castle to name a few. Hollywood movies that have been filmed here include The Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, Hidalgo, the old version of The Ten Commandments and Sideways. If all of the above doesn't entice you to visit, I don't know what will . I hope this encourages you to pull out a map to see exactly where we are  . . . . . 
-Jenna


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## LCEvans (Mar 29, 2009)

I like maps for fantasy. Recently I finished His Majesty's Dragon by Naomi Novik, and I was delighted to find that at the back of the book there were illustrations and descriptions of various dragon breeds. I found these charming and fun.


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## cjpatrick (Jan 4, 2009)

I think the consensus here is that maps are great artwork and a nice aide to reading a book but not essential. Or that seems to be what everyone is saying and I agree. I love a good map, although I have found some of them don't show up on my kindle too well (George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire is one that comes to mind.) But maps are always fun just to look at in my opinion. They're pieces of practical art.


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## koland (Nov 24, 2008)

J.E.Johnson said:


> *The Central Coast:* the far western edge of California...


I suspect the rest of the country just considers that part of the west coast (perhaps not even the central part - since there are a couple of other states there, even ignoring Alaska. I thought you were talking about the Texas/LA/MS/etc shoreline - the Central Coast, rather than the East/West (esp since I know there is some big book expo going on in TX soon/now).


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Believe it or not, I actually took two courses in cartography in college and enjoyed them immensely, though I've never included a map in any of my books.  I do like the ones in Tolkien's work because I like to get an idea of where the hobbits are as opposed to where the men of Gondor might be in relationship to where Mordor is situated in regard to Hobbiton and/or Mirkwood or my favorite most place in all of Middle Earth... Bree where Barleyman Butterbur keeps a fine inn... (PS I hope I got all of those references right or else I'll hear from the Tolkien experts) LOL


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

I like maps very much, and I'll often take a good look at them before I start to read a book so that I can familiarize myself with the important spots.  After I've done that, I seldom refer back to them while actually reading.  In the past I haven't included maps in my fantasy work but this thread has made me reconsider that idea.  

The value of a map for imaginary worlds is easy to understand, but quite a few fantasy novels are set in the "real" world too.  I think it might also be useful to include a map of real places where the action in the story takes place, like a map of New Orleans or California or wherever.  Most readers are not going to be any more familiar with the geography of those places than they would be of the far side of the Moon.  I think you'd have to be careful to do your homework though, because there will be locals out there who will be quick to spot any errors.  I guess you could always get away with it by saying the error is part of the fantasy, but that's a feeble excuse most of the time.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

On mapping, do you hand draw and scan and then reduce for the Kindle?

Edward C. patterson


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## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Hello Edward,
    That's exactly what I do for my maps, draw them then scan then re-size so they fit the page.  I used to draw my maps large (bigger than 8.5"x11" and at times I'm still tempted to - gives me more room to experiment with), but alas, my scanner is only the size of standard paper and I'm all for doing it myself when it comes to maps .  Good point by the way, bluearkansasangel, about including a map even if the novel isn't fantasy (or a fantasy taking place in the modern day world).  I'm sure I'd be grateful if I were to pick up a novel set in a specific area and have the map there to help me out.
-Jenna


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## cjpatrick (Jan 4, 2009)

I think it was Shadow of the Wind that had a map of Barcelona in it. I didn't pay any mind to it, but it was pretty neat just to look at.


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