# Unemployed! Now a few questions on erotica trends...



## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Hi. Suddenly I am without gainful employment. Though it was a soul crushing corporate job, paying for food was still a nice perk. I am a writer by trade, but now I need to use this skill to create something of my own. Hubs says ninety days is the max we can stretch the savings before I will have to get a minimum wage job, but he is supportive in my giving self-pubbing a shot.

I'd like to ask the erotica writers here if they could chime in on genres, marketplaces, release formats, trends...anything that might give me an insight into tapping the erotica market in its current condition.

I've written several novellas in a romance series, but they are a good six months out from publication. Without further input I will begin to churn out Bred by the Tentacled WereCowboy Billionaire shorts. Hopefully, keyboards will interrupt this folly.
Regards,
Eloa Brace


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2014)

Top-selling Erotica Authors

This will give you a start in seeing what's dominating the market.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

EloaBrace said:


> Without further input I will begin to churn out Bred by the Tentacled WereCowboy Billionaire shorts.


The thing is, you may scoff, but I guarantee somewhere some writer is making a pretty penny off such a concept.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

I suck at trend-spotting, but I did just want to say that I'm sorry about your job, and props to you for jumping ahead with the next thing. (If you had a full-time job, please don't forget to apply for unemployment! It won't replace a full-time salary, but it's also better than nothing, and your employer pays that insurance for a reason.)


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Thank you for the reminder re: getting filtered. I bought several do it yourself guides regarding writing erotica. One of them deals with that very subject.

Are there advantages to using kdp for erotica? Possibly using unlimited to increase payouts on a typically .99 book? Or would it be better to try for more channels?


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## Sharon Eros (Jul 27, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the job   I sincerely wish you and your family tons of success in the coming years, and I hope your self-publishing ends up being the best thing that ever happened to your income. It definitely has been for me, and I want others to have the same experience.

The advice you've been given so far in this thread has been quite good. I would add that you should write with an eye toward series rather than one-offs if you can help it since the marketing opportunities are incredible. For instance, this will allow you to take advantage of permafree for the first book in the series as a low risk way for readers to give a new author a chance. Get them hooked on your sexy writing with the first book and then have a bunch of other books to fill that demand!

Best of luck to you.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

I hope you aren't expecting to make a lot of $$ right away from publishing. It's not a get rich quick thing.

Having said that, study study study the market.  Find the top selling erotic authors and research what they are doing.  Even though you follow exactly their path doesn't necessarily mean you will have the same success.  Luck does play a part in this industry.

Good luck!!!


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

90 days?  That's going to be hard to do.  Because you'll get your October royalties in January.


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

Just wanted to say good luck to you!

Maybe think about doing steamy romance instead of erotica. I don't think erotica is the pickup truck full of cash that it used to be (if it ever was, hehe). And so many people have so much trouble with the filters. I write an erotica short every once in a while for fun and make about 4 dollars a month off them, and one got dungeoned for the tiniest bit of bum cheek on the cover. 

If you can get a good steamy romance serial going and permafree the first one, end them all on OMG cliffhangers, that might be the better way to go. But like everyone also says, there's a ton of luck involved. I wish you a ton of that!


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm not sure people saw dinorotica coming beforehand. I vote for setting some trends instead of following them! The time has come for Tentacled WereCowboy Billionaire erotica.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Honestly if you have 90 days to make a living from writing books.

Quit the idea now. Go get a job at Mcdonalds.

As this isn't some pop a dime in and get 5 dollars out business.

It's like climbing mount everest with little experience, and the chance that you might fall or never make it back.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Oh and also WRITE WHAT YOU LOVE

Don't chase the fads and copy others you will grow tired of doing that and it rarely leads to success.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

While your chances of making a full-time living on erotica in such a short span of time aren't great, it can be done. I'm not an expert by any means. I only have three erotic titles under a pen name, and one of them is permafree. I make all my erotica money on two titles that are only 3k words. I make about a $100 a month from them. I haven't published anything with that pen name since June b/c I'm an idiot  

I wrote, edited, made a cover and uploaded each of those with a total time commitment of 6-8 hours each. So again, I'm either really lazy or stupid to not have at least twenty titles up yet. But I think part of the reason is that while I enjoy writing them, I'm not passionate about them, and that makes it a lot harder to get motivated. Now, I'm sort of in the same position as you, in that I need to be making a full time living in a few months. But I'm young enough without too many commitments, and I could get away with that by making $1500 a month. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd spend a day studying the erotica charts on Amazon to see what's selling. Find a topic/subgenre that both interests you and is something that can sell. Then release a new title every other day. Depending on your writing speed, and your skills, you may be able to do this faster. But I would recommend your shorts be in the 6-8K range. If you're writing pure smut, it can be shorter, but still sell at $2.99. 

You'll need covers, but you probably won't be in a position to have them professionally designed if you need to produce quickly. I'd recommend spending a day learning the basics of GIMP. Maybe do this in between a difficult writing session. 

With erotica, don't expect to get rich quickly (though it can happen). But especially don't expect to make money on one short story. It's a quantity game. Write in series, and make the first story permafree. I did this within hours of my second story being released. I'd recommend going select, purely based on personal experience. 90% of my erotica income comes from channels available through Draft2Digital. 

EDIT: And this is why don't write on an Iphone... All those errors up there.


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## Crime fighters (Nov 27, 2013)

kalel said:


> Honestly if you have 90 days to make a living from writing books.
> 
> *Quit the idea now. Go get a job at Mcdonalds.*
> 
> ...


Getting a job in the meantime certainly isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't have to be one of the other. Neither is likely to make you rich, but one of them comes with not just the possibility of cold hard cash, but ALSO fulfillment.


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## Nicholas Andrews (Sep 8, 2011)

kalel said:


> Honestly if you have 90 days to make a living from writing books.
> 
> Quit the idea now. Go get a job at Mcdonalds.
> 
> ...


This. If you need money quick, look into a temp agency. Don't count on making anything with your writing, especially if you have yet to publish your first story.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

K.B. said:


> Right. Because Mcdonalds pays a living wage. Getting a job in the meantime certainly isn't a bad idea, but it doesn't have to be one of the other. Neither is likely to make you rich, but one of them comes with not just the possibility of cold hard cash, but ALSO fulfillment.


Absolutely! If you have 90 days to devote to writing, then devote them to writing. You never know what might happen until you try. And as Nightspress mentioned, apply for unemployment. You earned it, you deserve it, and it just might give you the breathing room you need to follow your dream.

Best of success to you!


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm not counting on anything. I simply happen to find myself in the position where I am going to have more time than my 70 hour a week ever afforded me. My goal isn't to become self sufficient in 90 days, but rather to build a foundation. I'm going back to work -- it's just going to take time. My job as a graphic designer paid twice the average in this town. It was twice as painful as well. I'm a realist, though my initial posting might not indicate it.

I really appreciate the advice. I also know that kboards is a crucible...if you can stand the heat generated by your comments and questions, you will be refined.

Maybe a seasonal theme would be in order. It might be time for lovecraft to show everyone his gibbous moon.


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## Romance4Ever (Jul 27, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> I've written several novellas in a romance series, but they are a good six months out from publication.


If your romance series is already written, why do you have to wait six months to publish them?


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

The drafts are done but will need revision and editing. I wouldn't want to rush them out the door since they are decent in my opinion. I think the time spent perfecting them would outweigh the loss in immediate profit. That said, maybe I do need to see if the time would be better spent on those.


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## ashleyrose (Aug 4, 2012)

kalel said:


> Don't chase the fads and copy others you will grow tired of doing that and it rarely leads to success.


This is not true. Studying the "fads", or what is currently selling, is a great way to make good money and can lead to success. It did for me.


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## ashleyrose (Aug 4, 2012)

K.B. said:


> While your chances of making a full-time living on erotica in such a short span of time aren't great, it can be done. I'm not an expert by any means. I only have three erotic titles under a pen name, and one of them is permafree. I make all my erotica money on two titles that are only 3k words. I make about a $100 a month from them. I haven't published anything with that pen name since June b/c I'm an idiot
> 
> I wrote, edited, made a cover and uploaded each of those with a total time commitment of 6-8 hours each. So again, I'm either really lazy or stupid to not have at least twenty titles up yet. But I think part of the reason is that while I enjoy writing them, I'm not passionate about them, and that makes it a lot harder to get motivated. Now, I'm sort of in the same position as you, in that I need to be making a full time living in a few months. But I'm young enough without too many commitments, and I could get away with that by making $1500 a month.
> 
> ...


This is a great post.


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## Romance4Ever (Jul 27, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> The drafts are done but will need revision and editing. I wouldn't want to rush them out the door since they are decent in my opinion. I think the time spent perfecting them would outweigh the loss in immediate profit. That said, maybe I do need to see if the time would be better spent on those.


To me, finishing this series and getting the books published would be the low-hanging fruit. Do a round of edits/revisions. Get some (non-friend/non-family) beta readers to give you honest feedback. Hire an editor to do the final polish/clean-up. You mentioned that you're a graphic designer, but if you're not comfortable making book covers, buy some premade ones.

Sitting on a written, multi-book series for six months because you don't want to rush to publish is like sitting on a a bunch of checks you never bothered to cash.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Erotica sells on B&N and also on ARe if you put it in the romance categories over there.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Romance4Ever said:


> To me, finishing this series and getting the books published would be the low-hanging fruit. Do a round of edits/revisions. Get some (non-friend/non-family) beta readers to give you honest feedback. Hire an editor to do the final polish/clean-up. You mentioned that you're a graphic designer, but if you're not comfortable making book covers, buy some premade ones.
> 
> Sitting on a written, multi-book series for six months because you don't want to rush to publish is like sitting on a a bunch of checks you never bothered to cash.


+10


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## Alexis Adaire (Mar 20, 2014)

Nicholas Andrews said:


> This. If you need money quick, look into a temp agency. Don't count on making anything with your writing, especially if you have yet to publish your first story.


Yep. I did this full-time from the start and my first five months produced a total of 10 titles and $91. And some of that didn't show up in my bank account until month 6. Things have gotten better and I'm now paying the bills every month, just two months shy of the 1-year anniversary of my first published book.

Best of luck and I hope you're the exception, but be prepared for a gradual climb and a lot of work.


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## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

I should just point out that Google Play pays monthly. It's the only major retailer that does. Erotica and Romance also sell well over there.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Amazon pays monthly, too.


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## Lyoung (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm also facing the same kind of problem - my company was acquired and my corporate job is going away in about 6 months.

Up until this point, I've been leisurely writing, taking my sweet time. But this has lit a fire under my tush. So I'm writing like a maniac and have also finished my outline so that I know where the story is going.

So good luck to you, my fellow hopeful writer!!! I wish for the same luck as well!

P.s. I'm going to publish my book in October while looking for other day jobs. I know writing is a long haul thing and I'm prepared to do it, hoping that one day...it'll go full-time for me. And I hope for the same for you!


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

Congratulations!  And condolences.  My husband and I went through the same thing last year.


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## lostagain (Feb 17, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> I'm not counting on anything. I simply happen to find myself in the position where I am going to have more time than my 70 hour a week ever afforded me. My goal isn't to become self sufficient in 90 days, but rather to build a foundation. I'm going back to work -- it's just going to take time. My job as a graphic designer paid twice the average in this town. It was twice as painful as well. I'm a realist, though my initial posting might not indicate it.
> 
> I really appreciate the advice. I also know that kboards is a crucible...if you can stand the heat generated by your comments and questions, you will be refined.
> 
> Maybe a seasonal theme would be in order. It might be time for lovecraft to show everyone his gibbous moon.


Now this makes more sense. I agree with those who say you might want to focus on getting the written works out there. But sure, why not try some erotica shorts if it's something you want to write.

I have to say, the idea of publishing one day's worth of work is appealing, although not having tried it I'm not sure I would be comfortable doing it, lol. I would be scared to publish without an editor no matter how well hidden I felt with a pen name.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> Erotica sells on B&N and also on ARe if you put it in the romance categories over there.


I don't believe B&N cares about anything. Perhaps if they did, they wouldn't be in a slow spiral to bankruptcy. However, ARe definitely cares about keeping erotica in its own category and it's probably not a great idea to cheat on the categories.


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## Lehane (Apr 7, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> The drafts are done but will need revision and editing. I wouldn't want to rush them out the door since they are decent in my opinion. I think the time spent perfecting them would outweigh the loss in immediate profit. That said, maybe I do need to see if the time would be better spent on those.


Six months under what timeline? If you're working 70 hour weeks right now, I imagine you're not writing on a full-time schedule. Not in a sassy way, just in a "everyone needs some sleep" way! If you were able to buckle down to writing full time (which is trickier than it sounds, I understand), then there's no reason to rush the series out the door -- if it's already drafted, you now suddenly have 70 more hours per week from which to pull time for revising, getting beta/editor reads, editing, and getting a cover on it.

A drafted serial has a lot of potential. You don't need to get *all* of them out in three months. You'll hear a lot around here that the third and fifth installments are the ones where things can really heat up with readers. What about kicking it into high gear on the first three and trying to get them out as quick as you're comfortable? You could, quite feasibly, get the first installment out in a month or less. That might be more worth the time spent, in the end.


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## BlairErotica (Mar 1, 2014)

For erotica, do NOT go with Select. Get with Smashwords and deal with them to get your story into Oyster, especially for longer titles in the $4.99 price range. I make far more from that one channel than through Amazon. Google is growing too. From what people say on the board and my own experience, Amazon is hit and miss for erotica and you can suddenly be stuck in the dungeon and sales evaporate. Also consider writing for themed anthologies. It pays money and gets you exposure. It is a long game, unfortunately, but I spent some time doing that last year and this year have several out from major erotica publishers who are better at marketing than I am.


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## NerdyWriter (Nov 23, 2013)

Get the series out now, especially since we are approaching big money season.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2014)

BlairErotica said:


> For erotica, do NOT go with Select. Get with Smashwords and deal with them to get your story into Oyster, especially for longer titles in the $4.99 price range. I make far more from that one channel than through Amazon. Google is growing too. From what people say on the board and my own experience, Amazon is hit and miss for erotica and you can suddenly be stuck in the dungeon and sales evaporate. Also consider writing for themed anthologies. It pays money and gets you exposure. It is a long game, unfortunately, but I spent some time doing that last year and this year have several out from major erotica publishers who are better at marketing than I am.


Thank you for posting this information. Every time I pop in on this site I pick up some valuable tips.

Although there's lots of information on here and on other forums/blogs, I wish a successful erotica author would write a short book on how to write in one of the popular erotica genres, self-edit, format, make a good book cover (cheaply using ms word, picmonkey or gimp) and distribute erotica stories on a tight budget and in the shortest period. 
Like, how to complete the 8 hour challenge writing erotica but maybe within say 1-7 days.


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## Jeanne Lynn (Nov 19, 2012)

I think you should give it a try, but I think it's getting harder to make money on Kindle. My older son has 23 full length novels on Kindle and his check this month was $81.55. He doesn't write in a popular genre and refuses to do so. He doesn't really care about money. He wants to write what he wants to write. I had to talk him into putting his books on Amazon. Basically, he writes for himself. He writes historical fantasy war fiction so there is limited appeal. His books are also extremely long --one of them is almost 1000 pages! I keep urging him to write something shorter. He's extremely prolific. He usually has a new novel completed every week. If he'd be willing to write erotica or romance, he'd make more money. Every time he tells me he finished a new novel, I say, "What's it about, Matt?" and he says, "It's about a human reptile fighting a horde of vampires during World War II." I'm still hoping he's going to write a mystery or thriller, but I'm not holding my breath. 

My younger son will write in any genre he thinks will make money. My younger son has a real thick skin too, negative reviews make him laugh. He wrote a political satire book that has 3 negative reviews from angry members of the opposite political party. But it sells. 

One thing you should do is get at it right away. Don't waste any time. This is actually a good opportunity for you to see if you can make enough selling books rather than a minimum wage job. 

One door closes, another opens. You've gotten a lot of good advice from the very smart writers on this forum. Good luck to you.


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## Jo Clendening (Apr 9, 2011)

kalel said:


> Honestly if you have 90 days to make a living from writing books.
> 
> Quit the idea now. Go get a job at Mcdonalds.
> 
> ...


Oh dear&#8230; you have so much pressure on you to perform within 90 day?! Don't give up on the writing idea, but you may want to have a good backup plan like getting a temp job in the meantime. The others have stated that royalty cheques take some time to get to you.


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## Tara Shuler (Apr 24, 2011)

Romance4Ever said:


> To me, finishing this series and getting the books published would be the low-hanging fruit. Do a round of edits/revisions. Get some (non-friend/non-family) beta readers to give you honest feedback. Hire an editor to do the final polish/clean-up. You mentioned that you're a graphic designer, but if you're not comfortable making book covers, buy some premade ones.
> 
> Sitting on a written, multi-book series for six months because you don't want to rush to publish is like sitting on a a bunch of checks you never bothered to cash.


Agreed, 100%. I think your time would be best spent refining these and releasing them in the next 30 days, and then spend the rest of your time on erotica, if you want.


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## JessieSnow (Jul 25, 2014)

Chrissy said:


> Apple -- they take a really long time to publish erotica; they're not exactly erotica friendly


This isn't exactly true if you publish to Apple through All Romance eBooks. Most of my erotica books are on Apple within two or three days if I go through ARe.

I also highly recommend All Romance eBooks, as sometimes they outsell my Amazon sales. Barnes and Noble, Google Play, and Smashwords are okay, but not great. Anywhere else and you're probably wasting time that could be spent writing, but I have a full list of the distributors and retailers I use here: http://writerjessiesnow.blogspot.com/2014/08/self-publishing-to-distributors-and.html

Quick Tips:

1. When marketing, BKnights on Fiverr is the best bang for your buck. A BookBub Ad will (almost) always pay for itself and then some, but they're expensive. BKnights costs $5. Go here (https://www.fiverr.com/bknights) when ready to market. Send a private message and say you're from KBoards. You'll probably be offered the full marketing package if you order any gig. Just know that BKnights can get a little backed up sometimes with orders and unless you're willing to spend an extra $5 to jump the line, it might be ten days or so before your promo is run. But it's usually more than worth it.

2. Getting the next book out is much more important than marketing. Don't even waste time putting links on twitter and facebook pages.

3. Series sell much, much better than stand-alone stories. Depending on who you talk to, the pricing model is usually $0.00, $0.99, and $2.99 for the rest. (Short stories less than 10k that is). Don't forget about bundles. People love a good deal.

4. Don't constantly check sales reports. Don't constantly check sales reports. Don't constantly check sales reports. It's a time-waster, and frequently disheartening.

5. In a 90-day period, all I can say is that it CAN be done if you churn out enough books (http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,162157.0.html) BUT, like the commercials always say, results aren't typical. Really, they're not typical. Really.  But at the very least, you can build a backlist of books. The more you publish, the more people will want to know what else you've published. The real "money season" is anywhere from November to March, depending on who you talk to, but sales tend to trend upward especially during January because people get Kindles and Nooks for Christmas. The more books you have out by then, the better.

6. In case you didn't catch that thread, http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,162157.0.html is a great place to go for more advice on erotica. I'm not exactly an expert myself. Like K.B. who posted earlier, I too have just three titles out (one that's perma-free) and make about $100 a month. But then, I just published my third book today, so I'm not too disappointed.

Some niches will always sell well:

Gay tentacle erotica
The babysitter fantasy
The virgin fantasy (don't use the word in your title or blurb though)
Professor/student

All those. People love the classics. Some people say gay erotica sells ten times better than hetero erotica, but I'm not sure about that. I'd love to hear other people's opinions. Gay in and of itself can be considered a niche, so you don't want to stray too far into the unique after that. Gay cowboys, pirates, werewolves, and tentacles may be cliche, but they also sell well.

Good luck!


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## Spinneyhead (Nov 4, 2010)

JessieSnow said:


> All those. People love the classics. Some people say gay erotica sells ten times better than hetero erotica, but I'm not sure about that. I'd love to hear other people's opinions. Gay in and of itself can be considered a niche, so you don't want to stray too far into the unique after that. Gay cowboys, pirates, werewolves, and tentacles may be cliche, but they also sell well.


Male bisexual erotica doesn't seem to be much of a seller in my experience. Though now one of the stories is permafree, it seems to be getting a lot of downloads. Maybe I'll see sales pick up on the back of that.

Maybe it's time to try my hand at some gay erotica. It's much the same as what I write already, just with the girls taken out.

I'd just like to repeat the point that writing's a long haul. Just keep producing stories and you'll slowly build up an audience and an income. That's what I keep telling myself, anyway.


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## Steven R. Drennon (Mar 12, 2011)

Romance4Ever said:


> To me, finishing this series and getting the books published would be the low-hanging fruit. Do a round of edits/revisions. Get some (non-friend/non-family) beta readers to give you honest feedback. Hire an editor to do the final polish/clean-up. You mentioned that you're a graphic designer, but if you're not comfortable making book covers, buy some premade ones.
> 
> Sitting on a written, multi-book series for six months because you don't want to rush to publish is like sitting on a a bunch of checks you never bothered to cash.


I agree with this. You said that you had "several" in a series, and if "several" means more than three, then definitely make this your primary focus. Take a week or two to prepare and release the first book, then let it sit out there while you prepare to release the second one. If you can take a week or two to really devote to editing and preparing each book, then in a little over a month you can have three books out there that are ready to start working for you.

Once you have the first three, start working on promoting the series. Enroll them all in KDP, mostly so that you can focus on just one place for now and take advantage of the free days and such as part of your promo efforts. You can use LibraryThing to give away copies of the first book in exchange for reviews. My experience has been that you will generally get about one review for every dozen or so books you give away, but getting reviews will be important for some of the promo sites like BookBub.

After that, spend a couple of hours each day trying to get on blog hops or doing other promo work, and spend the rest of your time preparing the next book for release. If you can get some traction going with that first book, then it will drive readers to the next in the series and so on. You have a built in advantage over so many writers in that you can start with a series that is already written to take advantage of that momentum.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

I say go for it, it could be fun, especially if you know you have a set time limit to write as much as you can. Write loads of short stories, write as many of them in a series as you can (just a loose link will do), and write whatever theme you personally like as well as what is popular. I think that usually shows through.

In terms of where to sell it. Right now might be a good time to go purely Amazon select and get lots of borrows rather than sales. But they do take 60 from the end of the month to pay.

As someone said, Googleplay pays monthly from the word go. As far as I am aware, they are the only site that pay you at the end of the month for the sales from that month. It usually comes in around the 7th or 8th of the following month. Pretty fast!

Anyway, best of luck. Getting made redundant was the best thing that ever happened to me


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## Writerly Writer (Jul 19, 2012)

Vivi_Anna said:


> I hope you aren't expecting to make a lot of $$ right away from publishing. It's not a get rich quick thing.


It's not a get rich quick thing... until it is.


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## WordNinja (Jun 26, 2014)

If I needed to make money fast, I'd write a series of gay spanking stories, around 8000 words each, releasing one every week or two, selling at $2.99 each. I'd put the first 5-book series in Select to see how it does, then make the next series available everywhere, and compare. KU has been awesome for me. 

Great covers and the right keywords are essential.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Update: I'm refining my paranormal romance series as had been suggested, with a side of erotica shorts that would actually be better described as a series. Here is my initial cover for short number one. Still needs suitable oil workers added. Resisting the urge to name him Derrick.
Is this too boring for a 7k short cover?

Thanks for looking!


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

That is an awesome cover!


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Thanks! I sort of hate to waste it on a short! Gives me a Bond/Mack Bolan vibe!


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2014)

EloaBrace, I really like  that cover. Good luck with your new release/releases.


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

All right - so I don't have a whole lot to add to the conversation - but if you are a graphic designer and can build your own covers you are DEFINITELY ahead of the game. One of the single biggest obstacles to the classic "I'm going to write 100 books of smut this year and make a billion dollars!" plan for e-hack success is the fact that you will probably spend a good chunk of your income on buying covers. You being able to build your own covers is a tremendous asset.

Here's a thought. Rather than trying to turn your words into a living income within 90 days why not try selling covers? There are an awful lot of e-book writers - not so many good e-book cover designers.

Just a thought.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm afraid I would disappoint people. I like a Saul Bass type of style too, and that's an acquired taste.


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## AisFor (Jul 24, 2014)

vlmain said:


> That is an awesome cover!


Agreed...stunning!


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Micki23 said:


> I love that cover! With your graphic design background, you could totally sell your covers. Supplement your income while you build up your writing business.


I agree. Don't worry about disappointing people. It's no different than writing--there will be people who love our work and people who don't, but that doesn't stop us from writing. You could do some mock up covers and put them on a website so people can get a feel for your style. You have a real talent, there. Use it!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> Thanks! I sort of hate to waste it on a short! Gives me a Bond/Mack Bolan vibe!


That cover is great! I'd throw money at you to do covers for me.  Heck, you'd most likely do well if you made some pre-mades and sold those while writing.


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## Andrew Broderick (Aug 6, 2014)

Re: the writing prompts on the previous page of this thread, this is a world of writing and reading that I never even knew existed! Yikes!


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## Ainsley (Dec 26, 2013)

Um, yeah. I'd be selling covers with that kind of talent.


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## Miss Tarheel (Jul 18, 2014)

That's a great cover! Heck, I'd buy it.


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

Great cover! I agree that you should at least consider selling covers on the side. You're very talented.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

I will give some thought about doing covers. I need to get the three volumes of this one out the door. I'm loosely following Viola's model. .99 cents each, 15k words each. This one will be an erotica thriller series. I'm hoping unlimited will payoff until I can wrap the singles up into a combo book.

Or do you think these should be priced higher since they are erotica and theoretically can justify the money? I'm thinking of Kmatthew's results thread on this.

Thanks for all the kind words on the cover!


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I can't advise you on selling erotica, but I'm adding to the chorus of "That's a damn fine cover there".


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Just wanted to mention, I seem to remember Viola Rivard having a thread about how she jumped into the BBW werewolf smut genre and became successful at it quite quickly. It had a lot of good advice that could help you out, I think, especially since she was up against similar financial difficulties at the time she started.


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

If you are classifying them as erotica, I would suggest 2.99 - especially for volumes 2 and 3.


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Just wanted to mention, I seem to remember Viola Rivard having a thread about how she jumped into the BBW werewolf smut genre and became successful at it quite quickly. It had a lot of good advice that could help you out, I think, especially since she was up against similar financial difficulties at the time she started.


I think that she ultimately deleted her posts in that thread.


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## SawyerPentecost (Jul 11, 2013)

Yes, Shayne, but the contents of that thread seem to have been mostly removed. I would love to find a cached copy of it though!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> I will give some thought about doing covers. I need to get the three volumes of this one out the door. I'm loosely following Viola's model. .99 cents each, 15k words each. This one will be an erotica thriller series. I'm hoping unlimited will payoff until I can wrap the singles up into a combo book.
> 
> Or do you think these should be priced higher since they are erotica and theoretically can justify the money? I'm thinking of Kmatthew's results thread on this.
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words on the cover!


I personally would stick with the $.99c pricing since they're going to be 15k words or less. I'm doing this for my next erotica series (4 parter). My 25k+ words trilogy are free, .99 and then $2.99 for the last book which is 33k words.

But yes, please consider doing covers! Spend a day or two making pre-made series covers. Trilogies, four-parts, five parts, maybe some that are just two parts and then some singles. You got talent!

I took the liberty to shrink your cover down. It looks great.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

That is an absolutely awesome cover. And please, please, do name your character Derrick. That would be awesome.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Liv & Lacey said:


> Viola didn't write smut*. She wrote menage paranormal romance. It had sex in almost every serial section, but also followed the standard "rules" of romance.
> 
> *I define Smut as a sex driven, very loosely plotted story. Usually under 10K words total. I have some smut in my sig and have no problem with someone writing it, it's just not what Viola wrote in her werewolf series.


No offense meant. If something has described sex in it, as opposed to fade-to-black, I call it smut. It's not meant as a pejorative, just a kind of catch-all word that covers fiction with a fair amount of sex.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Liv & Lacey said:


> Viola didn't write smut*. She wrote menage paranormal romance. It had sex in almost every serial section, but also followed the standard "rules" of romance.


This brings up a question I had about her work. I never made it past the first story segment simply due to time, but it seemed to violate several romance rules, specifically no cheating once the two mains meet. Is this story given a pass because there are three mains? I really respect her achievements. No negatives intended.

My ******* girls story isn't technically smut, there is a main character whose love life is conventional with a HEA ending. Her friends are not bound by this rules. There is a plot: party boat plus oil rig plus hurricane plus terrorists=basically Rainbow Six meets Jersey Shore, in the deep and superficial South. It is sex plus story. I'm a bit confused as to how to market it. Erotic Thriller Serial?


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> This brings up a question I had about her work. I never made it past the first story segment simply due to time, but it seemed to violate several romance rules, specifically no cheating once the two mains meet. Is this story given a pass because there are three mains? I really respect her achievements. No negatives intended.
> 
> My ******* girls story isn't technically smut, there is a main character whose love life is conventional with a HEA ending. Her friends are not bound by this rules. There is a plot: party boat plus oil rig plus hurricane plus terrorists=basically Rainbow Six meets Jersey Shore, in the deep and superficial South. It is sex plus story. I'm a bit confused as to how to market it. Erotic Thriller Serial?


Menage isn't cheating, it's three people finding a happily ever after. It's not like the FMC was going back and forth between the guys, cheating on one with the other. Totally different situation.

Are your books about the sexual journey, or a true romance journey? Do you plan to have the FMC sleep with anyone but the man/men she ends up with? Romance is a clear arc between two people (or more in the case of menage) finding their way to a happily ever after, and all other arcs/plots are secondary. Your description sounds more erotica than romance to me, but I may be misunderstanding.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Thanks for the clarification. I read on her blog that she refers to herself as a romance writer. I didn't realize that ménage could refer to romance as opposed to erotica. I'm still getting used to the blur and overlap of these things.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> This brings up a question I had about her work. I never made it past the first story segment simply due to time, but it seemed to violate several romance rules, specifically no cheating once the two mains meet. Is this story given a pass because there are three mains? I really respect her achievements. No negatives intended.


You have to take into consideration the kind of world her stories take place in, and the fact that it's a paranormal. For her first series, there really is no such thing as "cheating" among the werewolves. Both the males and females sleep with whoever they want (so long as it's within the same pack, I think, haven't finished the series yet).


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## Lehane (Apr 7, 2014)

Puzzle said:


> You have to take into consideration the kind of world her stories take place in, and the fact that it's a paranormal. For her first series, there really is no such thing as "cheating" among the werewolves. Both the males and females sleep with whoever they want (so long as it's within the same pack, I think, haven't finished the series yet).


Yup. And one of the key things in that serial is that once the three MC's are "mated," no one sleeps around outside the trio. The alphas no longer pursue their other female packmates, and the FMC doesn't stray. It's not cheating because three people are together, so long as those three (or, theoretically, four+ if that's your thing!) only stay with one another for their sexual, relationshippy, and HEA needs.


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## Amber Rose (Jul 25, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> I read on her blog that she refers to herself as a romance writer. I didn't realize that menage could refer to romance as opposed to erotica. I'm still getting used to the blur and overlap of these things.


In her latest post, she says "I written thirteen erotic romance books and I've never been dungeoned. ...". So maybe she has changed how she views her category?


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## Capella (Jan 16, 2014)

Viola has always termed her work erotic romance as far as I can remember. Erotic romance is a sub genre of romance, not a sub genre of erotica.
And a heads up, Viola wrote a lot of unpublished work before the Claimed series and honed a very fine sense of storytelling and character development. And that's the reason her books took off while many, many copycats failed. If you really want to learn something from Viola, follow her advice to write what you want to read, within the confines of a popular genre.
I love Viola's books, but I have yet to see anyone replicate what she did. 
OP: I think you are best off finding an erotica niche that has easy to reach lists and putting out as many shorts as fast as you can. If that's what you really want. But will you really be happy with a career as a writer if you are writing things you have no interest in and plan to go back to work anyway?
As for the romance novellas, I see no reason to let them sit. Don't treat books like darlings. Sometimes the ones we think are our best are not, according to readers. And "these are good, I want to save them" is going to be a tough attitude for anyone planning to self publish large amounts. Because what does it say about the things you are publishing that fast?
But I really wish you the best of luck. It took me about six months to write enough to get ready to publish, and I have continuously published and lived on the proceeds. But it took longer than 90 days and things were different then. It is more difficult to make it now. I can see that with each release, especially because I write under multiple author names. I really feel for new authors coming into it now.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

If you're worried about disappointing writers with your book covers, you could always make a bunch of premade ones and sell them--there are lists of websites on here that sell premades, so you can get an idea about pricing and how they market them. 

Just a note--my 7000 word gay erotic romance outsells my other erotica titles 100 to 1. The M/M genre is exploding right now. Eelkat is right about those 7000 - 15,000 word shorts doing well at 2.99. Much better than my 99 cent titles. 

Good luck!


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I just want to know when and where we can buy some of your covers.  I'm always looking for new premades (especially those that can fit gay romance).


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## Irish Mint (Jul 19, 2014)

Capella said:


> And that's the reason her books took off while many, many copycats failed.


I wouldn't quite say they failed. Yeah, none of them made it even remotely as big as her series but I remember the ranks of the copycats and they were good enough to net $5-6K.

Personally I wouldn't call $5k a failure.

I would list some of her alleged copycats and their rankings to prove my point but they're probably members here and yeah...


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

judygoodwin said:


> Just a note--my 7000 word gay erotic romance outsells my other erotica titles 100 to 1. The M/M genre is exploding right now. Eelkat is right about those 7000 - 15,000 word shorts doing well at 2.99. Much better than my 99 cent titles.
> 
> Good luck!


Do you have a link to this category please Judy?


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

OW said:


> Do you have a link to this category please Judy?


Here you are!

http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=dp_brlad_entry?ie=UTF8&node=6487829011

Okay it doesn't actually say erotic anywhere in that category. But that's a general expectation of gay romance in general. There's often a lot of sex.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Gay romance bestseller list:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Kindle-Store-Gay-Romance/zgbs/digital-text/6487829011

There are several categories of it, though.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

If you got your unemployment and wrote full time for a couple of months you could put out large volumes of erotica shorts before going back to work. I almost wish this would happen to me.


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## Miss Tarheel (Jul 18, 2014)

Hey EloaBrace, was just checking in to see how you're doing. I just started writing erotica (well pure smut) this past Tuesday and have 3 titles out now. I made $14 in two days this week already in sales. So I do think that you can make it big in erotica as long as you put the work in. Also, I just wanted to say to keep at it and let us know how you're doing. It's nice to see someone going through the same thing as myself here.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Thank you everyone for the kind words, warnings, and encouragement. I am hoping to publish something in the next few days as well as setting up for cover business too. A multi prong strategy will be necessary to get myself going. Anyone who wants to trade mentoring erotica shorts for covers, let me know!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> Thank you everyone for the kind words, warnings, and encouragement. I am hoping to publish something in the next few days as well as setting up for cover business too. A multi prong strategy will be necessary to get myself going. Anyone who wants to trade mentoring erotica shorts for covers, let me know!


Yay I'm so excited for you! You'll let us know when your book is available and your book covers, right?  I may just have to snag some book covers off of you.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

And then someone drops 800 premises on the market! Back to gay spanking were-capybaras! Maybe I'll just do customs for $50 each and offer people an alternative to premades.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

EloaBrace said:


> Maybe I'll just do customs for $50 each and offer people an alternative to premades.


Yup, that will keep you pretty inundated with work!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> And the someone drops 800 premises on the market! Back to gay spanking were-capybaras! Maybe I'll just do customs for $50 each and offer people an alternative to premades.


Oh my. Would you or could you do paranormal and/or horror erotica covers? I'm looking for a cover for my Ghoul title.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

Anyone can PM me about covers. I'm flattered people would be interested! But I don't want to turn this thread into a 'shingle' thread though. I'm not ready to get swamped yet! On topic though -- I'm hoping to publish my first short today, followed by another tomorrow.

Would it be smart to use separate pen names for gay erotica as opposed to hetero?


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## Drake (Apr 30, 2014)

It took me about six months before any real money came in, and that was after I got my third title in a series published.  Volume and a constant stream of new work makes all the difference.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

EloaBrace said:


> Would it be smart to use separate pen names for gay erotica as opposed to hetero?


Yes, probably. Try to be consistent with your branding. I screwed that up and am paying for it.


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## EloaBrace (Sep 22, 2014)

What kind of branding problems did you have? Surely something can be done to help?


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

Oh yeah sure... I just need to pick a niche and stick with it instead of bouncing around. But I get bored.   So my erotica pen name has 4 titles with 4 kinks. I need to take the last one, supernatural m/f fairy tale, and make that a serial then drop the others. Or start a new name. But when I think about whether there's a kink I would like to explore for a dozen installments or so, I think erotica just isn't the genre for me.

Most people seem to be able to do it without a problem. Just putting it out there for you.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Liv & Lacey said:


> You don't necessarily need to create a seperate pen name. You can brand on the cover by creating your own "line". So for all your m/m, you could add something to each cover in the exact same spot that indicates that it's m/m vs your other erotica. I write different sub-kinks and try to do this. I've been inconsistent, but you can see what I'm talking about at the top of some of my books. Eg. Some are "Taboo Erotica", some are "Girl Next Door", etc.
> 
> I also write romance under a different pen name. I can only manage two social media names at a time. I split my romance off because it's completely different from my erotica. But all my erotica is under one name.


I started a different pen name for my PI just because my menage is so different I was really afraid my taboo stuff would attract a different type of reader and offend others. I'm not sure it was necessary, but I did it to be on the safe side.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

I have all my erotica under one pen name but I also have three lines-- "His/Her", "Lesbian Lovers", and "Hardcore Gay". And I'm finding that there's actually some crossover in readership. So as long as you're clear, I don't think you need multiple erotica pen names. 

Can't wait to see your first release in your sig!


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## thinkloose_writetight (Apr 5, 2012)

Great thread, everyone! I'm learning so much here. Many thanks!


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## ericaroswell (Apr 17, 2014)

There are a lot of naysayers in your thread but I make good money in erotica and so do many other erotica writers. I encourage you to join the Eroticaauthors subreddit on Reddit and then once you've published a few titles, the smutwriters subreddit. There are so many encouraging and helpful writers there and you can learn everything you want to know about making money by writing erotica. Good luck.


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