# Zoo to split up male penguin couple



## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

This story is just sad:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058779/Destiny-calling-Gay-African-penguins-Buddy-Pedro-split-breed-females.html



> Their love story is almost over and the couple may only have days left before they are wrenched from each other's embrace.
> Buddy and Pedro, the apparently gay African penguins at Toronto Zoo, are going to be forceably separated by zoo keepers.
> After they were seen touching each other, leaving together every night and showing signs of mating behaviour, the zoo decided they had to put a stop to it because both penguins have a duty to do.


Wow, talk about violating nature!


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

I saw those guys last week.  One fell between two rocks, headfirst, and got lodged in there.  He kept kicking and trying to free himself, but couldn't.  The second panguin hovered around his trapped friend, trying to help him out.  Finally the trapped penguin managed to free himself.  The second penguin, feeling bad for his buddy, wobbled off, grabbed some food, and brought it back to the recovering penguin.  He placed it at his feet and nudged him.  "Eat, eat."


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

Daniel Arenson said:


> I saw those guys last week. One fell between two rocks, headfirst, and got lodged in there. He kept kicking and trying to free himself, but couldn't. The second panguin hovered around his trapped friend, trying to help him out. Finally the trapped penguin managed to free himself. The second penguin, feeling bad for his buddy, wobbled off, grabbed some food, and brought it back to the recovering penguin. He placed it at his feet and nudged him. "Eat, eat."


That makes me even more sad!!!


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## tinytoy (Jun 15, 2011)

I wonder if it would make any difference if they weren't an endangered species. Roy and Silo of NYC's Central Park zoo are Chinstrap Penguins, which I don't believe are endangered, and were allowed to stay together as a male couple and hatch an egg.  The egg was given to Roy and Silo from a male-female penguin couple who had two eggs and likely wouldn't have been able to hatch them both.  Anyhow, their story is the basis for the book "And Tango Makes Three" by Justin Richardson and Peter Parnell.  This book was #1 on the most challenged list to the American Library Association for many years recently, including in 2010. Reasons: homosexuality.


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## Wingpeople (Oct 7, 2011)

Perhaps we need to start a mail-in campaign to that zoo with copies of:


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

tinytoy said:


> I wonder if it would make any difference if they weren't an endangered species.


Yes, I think that's what their reasoning is. Unfortunately the penguins don't know they're endangered.


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## tinytoy (Jun 15, 2011)

DYB said:


> Yes, I think that's what their reasoning is. Unfortunately the penguins don't know they're endangered.


I don't agree with the zoo. I just have to wonder if it would really make a difference or if it's more of an excuse. Shouldn't the zoo professionals know better than to assume they can "make" these penguins mate with females if the penguins do not wish to do so?


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

tinytoy said:


> I don't agree with the zoo. I just have to wonder if it would really make a difference or if it's more of an excuse. Shouldn't the zoo professionals know better than to assume they can "make" these penguins mate with females if the penguins do not wish to do so?


That's exactly what I was thinking. Since penguins are known to mate for life - they are really taking a big gamble assuming that the separated couple will mate with anyone else.


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## Fleurignacois (Sep 17, 2011)

Why is it assumed that these birds are gay? Can't they just be good friends?


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

Fleurignacois said:


> Why is it assumed that these birds are gay? Can't they just be good friends?


Well, from the article:



> _After they were seen touching each other, leaving together every night and showing signs of mating behaviour [...]
> Those behaviours include making a braying sound and defending their territory._


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## anguabell (Jan 9, 2011)

This story made me quite angry. People who deny or underestimate the fact that animals form strong emotional bonds (that affect their health and the entire wellbeing) should not be allowed to care for animals or make "rational" decisions about their lives.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

DYB said:


> Well, from the article:


I don't know....seems like a bit of a stretch


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## Fleurignacois (Sep 17, 2011)

Well I've had dogs that humped my leg but I didn't take this as a sign of homosexual love. Does true homosexuality actually exist in the animal kingdom?


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

A dog humping your leg? I really fail to see any connection.

"Homosexuality" is a human word, obviously. But yes, in the animal kingdom same-sex attachments do exist. The current one is not the first.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/14479670


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## EvaCole (Nov 7, 2011)

Fleurignacois said:


> Does true homosexuality actually exist in the animal kingdom?


Yes - it's well documented, even in scientific papers that don't tend to apply human standards to animal behaviors. It's easiest to see in birds that mate for life - where you can see a same-sex bird couple going through all the "couple" behaviors (which are often very distinct from the friend behaviors). I spent a summer watching a bird colony - it was really cool to see.

My take on the penguins though is that they're obviously very close, whatever you call it. Captivity is really hard on most animals, including hard on their ability to reproduce. If they need penguin sperm, there must be better ways to get it than causing severe stress to these two animals (from both an ethical and very practical standpoint).


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

Daniel Arenson said:


> Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## Fleurignacois (Sep 17, 2011)

DYB said:


> A dog humping your leg? I really fail to see any connection.


Isn't that "mating behaviour"?


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

DYB said:


> A dog humping your leg? I really fail to see any connection.
> 
> Isn't that "mating behaviour"?


Humping the leg of a human is surely different from humping another dog. Or are you comparing bestiality to homosexuality?


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

DYB said:


> Humping the leg of a human is surely different from humping another dog. Or are you comparing bestiality to homosexuality?


Yeah, don't even go there. That dog is doing essentially what a human male does who buys an inflatable doll: letting out his urges on _something_ because there is no appropriate partner available. (And by "appropriate", I mean "of the same species".) There is NO comparison, in either case, between that and pair-bonding.

If those penguins' genes are so important for the breeding program, there has to be another way to get penguin sperm. In humans that's a fairly short outpatient medical procedure; you'd think they could do it with birds too.

And by the way, even if they were just best buddies and not bonded mates, separating them would _still_ be cruel.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

It's really not unusual at all for zoos to match up males and females of endangered species in order to keep the gene pool varied and keep the species from becoming extinct. That often involves splitting up siblings and exchanging one animal with another, often across the world. It's a little sad, but the zoo clearly believes there's a chance the two can bond with other female penguins and produce offspring. When the entire species is at stake, I can see their reasoning. Hopefully the penguins are able to re-bond with their new partners.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

There's a "gay couple" of penguins in the San Francisco zoo too.they have their own "nest hole" just like all of the other couples, and defend it just like a normal hetero bonded couple.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh Brother...this thread is going downhill fast.....

Next thing you know, we will have: 
~Penguin marches in San Francisco
~"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policies in Antarctica and 
~Congressional debates on the morality of "feathering the nest"


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## kindlequeen (Sep 3, 2010)

There used to be a gay pair of penguins at the SF Zoo.... Harry and Pepper but Harry left Pepper for Linda who was recently widowed in March of 2009.  Pepper showed signs of distraught and was separated from them for a while but now lives next door to their burrow.  Harry and Pepper were together for 6 years and they broke up naturally (without any interference from zookeepers).  The story made me sad because so many documentaries show the strong emotional bonds penguins make with their mates.

It's not uncommon though, we have a lesbian black swan couple in the same zoo who've been nesting together for years.  

Hey Napcat, any thoughts on the best spot to catch the parades?


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)




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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

NapCat said:


>


That is funny!


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

I'd like to know the stats for births in captivity. Since they are endangered I can see the reasoning but if there's a slim to none then it makes little sense to cause them stress for a long shot. I'd also like to know, what makes them think they can get them to mate with females? I'm assuming that all the ladies in their current habitat aren't spoken for and their bond isn't out of convenience. (Not that I think this way with people, just to be clear, but these are animals and it has there is such a thing as role filling. No harm in wanting companionship.  ) If that's the case then it's pretty obvious that they've made their choice.

Hopefully they will have blow-back from this and just leave the little guys alone.


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## ChrisTeese (Sep 27, 2011)

I find this sad. I don't think it will accomplish much at all, other than being cruel for the birds.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

fayrlite said:


> I'd like to know the stats for births in captivity. Since they are endangered I can see the reasoning but if there's a slim to none then it makes little sense to cause them stress for a long shot. I'd also like to know, what makes them think they can get them to mate with females? I'm assuming that all the ladies in their current habitat aren't spoken for and their bond isn't out of convenience. (Not that I think this way with people, just to be clear, but these are animals and it has there is such a thing as role filling. No harm in wanting companionship.  ) If that's the case then it's pretty obvious that they've made their choice.
> 
> Hopefully they will have blow-back from this and just leave the little guys alone.


The article says there are 12 penguins total - 6 male, 6 female. So there are "available" females, but these boys chose each other. Although it should be noted they arrived in Toronto from Ohio and were already a "couple." The article doesn't say what the situation was in the Ohio zoo. But even with single females in Toronto they haven't swapped partners.


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## momilp (Jan 11, 2010)

The story is sad  
but the jokes are funny


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

DYB said:


> The article says there are 12 penguins total - 6 male, 6 female. So there are "available" females, but these boys chose each other. Although it should be noted they arrived in Toronto from Ohio and were already a "couple." The article doesn't say what the situation was in the Ohio zoo. But even with single females in Toronto they haven't swapped partners.


Well if there were females available and they still picked each other, I'd say the likeliness of them mating with others isn't so great. Everything I've read says they mate for life and refuse to mate with anyone else when they've chosen. It just seems like a crazy thing to do and I'm wondering if there isn't pressure from other sources to make the split.  I'm surprised to see this from Toronto honestly.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)




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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

NapCat said:


>


That's good!


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

So apparently Toronto zoo officials are now promising that they will reunite the couple after they've mated with the female penguins.  I'm not really sure that they would work though if the mating with female penguins happens at all and if there are eggs involved afterwards.


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## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

Well hopefully that will happen.


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## EvaCole (Nov 7, 2011)

DYB said:


> So apparently Toronto zoo officials are now promising that they will reunite the couple after they've mated with the female penguins. I'm not really sure that they would work though if the mating with female penguins happens at all and if there are eggs involved afterwards.


So they're going to go from splitting up male penguins to forcing single motherhood on the female penguins? Do penguins do one-night stands? There's got to be the penguin equivalent of a turkey baster...


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

The *National Geographic Wild Channel* is sponsoring "PENGUIN PALOOZA" the weekend......several documentaries about these wonderful critters.
Check your local listings.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/wild/events-penguin-palooza/penguin-palooza-pictures/


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

Meanwhile in China - a male penguin couple is given their very own chick to raise. 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/12/07/gay-penguin-pair-adopts-a-baby-chick-in-china/?hpt=hp_t3


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