# A Reader's Rant or how to lose fans.



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I see 101 threads on how should I sell my book, why isn't my book selling, etc. As you all know I read quite a bit. Here is my biggest pet peeves on a book. 
If you are setting your book in a location that you are not real familiar with, get a map. Do a bit of research, please. I have noticed this in more than one book by different authors. If you want a person to get from point A to Point B and Point B is Southwest of Point A, do not have them go Hundreds of miles SE(on little back roads) then go another several SW only to make them go back NW for hundreds of Miles to finally go the actual direction needed. And learn your roads. This made it obvious that you had never been to the area.
Also on mapping, please look and see where you want your location to be. Do not say it is one region but the town you are writing about is 200 miles from that region.
Most states offer free maps by mail. Use this resource.

Next pet peeve, if you do NOT know how something works, do not make a joke (pun) about it. It justs makes you look stupid. This idea could possibly turn off a bunch of readers. *Also in a fiction book; please do not put real names of companies if you are making jokes at their expense. * Again do a touch of research.

Another pet peeve is if you put a forward about the characters in a book, (especially a short story) do not make me wait 1/3 to halfway through the book for your characters to show up. That was a big turn off.

Also if you put all your credentials at the back of your book, I will have higher expectations and your grammar and usage better be spot on. That was also very annoying to have a very short story, then the author's complete bio. 
If you write a fiction book, I do not need to know all your academic degrees.

If you write a SERIAL, do not advertise it as a stand alone book.

Also do NOT be insulting to the reviewer. 
Think of it this way: if you got a legitimate bad review, how many people will now not pick up your book and leave more bad reviews. That review will actually help find your correct readers.

I think that is all the rants for this month.
Now you know why Indies get bad raps.

*To sum up, Do your research, check your grammar and advertise your book for what it is. *

I hope this helps someone out there.

Editing because I put a word in the wrong place and totally changed the meaning of what I was trying to say.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> Also do NOT be insulting to the reviewer.
> Think of it this way: if you got a legitimate bad review, how many people will now not pick up your book and leave more bad reviews. That review will actually help find your correct readers.


This is a good point! (I can't comment on the rest - all of my locations and companies are made up  )
A "bad" review will make certain people steer clear of a book. So something like "This book is awful because it has too much violence" is actually more of a filter than a detriment to sales.


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

I make up locations, too. But I learned the hard way not saying my book was the first in a series. It has a cliffhangery ending and I got a few reviews where people HATED the ending. I swiftly edited the blurb to say more was on its way. Lesson learned! 

Thanks for all the reader input.


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

The location thing drives me nuts when I read a book and someone is just winging it through an area he or she has never been. It's why I only write about locations I have visited or researched extensively.

Another one I would add that really needs some attention, and that's about trying to fake knowledge about a profession you know nothing about. Military subject novels are famous for this as you read someone's story about the Army and they're using speech that hasn't been heard since the movie Apocalypse Now, which immediately tells me that that's where the dialogue came from anyway. I wrote a book that involves a Coast Guard cutter, which required me to go on a bunch of ride-alongs with the Coast Guard (back in the day when they let writers do that), and I learned so much that forced me to rewrite the novel I thought was going to be "good enough".


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Google Maps is your friend, both map and satellite view.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Duane Gundrum said:


> Another one I would add that really needs some attention, and that's about trying to fake knowledge about a profession you know nothing about. Military subject novels are famous for this as you read someone's story about the Army and they're using speech that hasn't been heard since the movie Apocalypse Now


Hah, good point. I'm lucky to have a reader whose husband is in the military and will comment on things that, even in a futuristic setting, don't have the right ring.

I'm often amused by books and films that use current computer technology like it was some sort of magic.
Especially films where characters rapidly touch-type instructions on a keyboard when you would be using a few clicks with a mouse for these functions. Also fun was watching people turn off computers by turning off the CRT monitor.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Also in a fiction book; please do not put real names of companies especially if you are making jokes at their expense. Again do a touch of research.


This is the only one I don't necessarily agree with. While I would avoid anything libelous, I feel real-life places and companies have their place in fiction books for literary effect and to help ground the story.

ETA: Mainly I mean for background / flavor text. I.e. a character staying at the Hilton...not as a primary plot point.

James Patterson's Wizard and Witch series goes out of its way to give all the companies in it close, but not quite real names and personally it drove me nuts. I would read how, say, a character went shopping at Tord & Laylor's and it would make me cringe.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Especially films where characters rapidly touch-type instructions on a keyboard when you would be using a few clicks with a mouse for these functions.


Hah! I was watching Arrow last night and was noting how the character typed a few random keys and suddenly had a full screen news cast playing. Computers and TV / movies...never shall they meet in reality.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Ha, yes. One of the first things I noticed about _Fifty Shades of Grey_ was not her inner goddess, but how Anna, starting in Vancouver, Washington, to drive to Seattle, headed her car towards Portland, OR. Great pains were taken in the book to detail this, down to which onramp she was going to take. Hope you packed a lunch, Anna!


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

Yes, and if I may chime in, please avoid: ... picked up his Gillette shaver ... looking for her purse in her D&G bag ...  a spoon full of Maxwell coffee grind ... avoid brands, please. 
Some people don't know  brands, especially if your reader is from an other part of the world.  And  flying from the US to europe takes at least 8 hours and is always over night (if commercial, and from Europe to the US by day) ... ;-)

I've been thrown more than once out of the story by something like that  :O


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

I use Smith & Wesson, Glock, Ruger, and HK for guns.  They drive a Range Rover, and drink Coke and San Miguel beer. Seems silly to make up names nobody ever heard of. If people use the names in normal conversation, it makes sense to use them in writing. Some names are used, and some aren't. depends on the product.

But I do confess to naming a newscaster Bear Donner.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

I'm curious about how it's perceived if the author writes a stand alone book that he MIGHT turn into a trillogy IF the first book garners decent numbers. But he plans to move onto somthing else if it flops. Does that qualify as deception, if he then DOES write the other two books?


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I use Smith & Wesson, Glock, Ruger, and HK for guns. They drive a Range Rover, and drink Coke and San Miguel beer. Seems silly to make up names nobody ever hear of. If people use the names in normal conversation, it makes sense to use them in writing. Some names are used, and some aren't. depends on the product.
> 
> But I do confess to naming a newscaster Bear Donner.


That's true, but it does get annoying when the author mentions that it is a Range Rover _every time_ the character gets in the car. We got it the first time. The brand helps initially to visualize what the car looks like. Beyond that, I find it just irritating. Less so a weapon when a character things of their Glock as a Glock though, for some reason. Nothing like consistency. 

As for location, there is nothing like a map!


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## S.P. van der Lee (Aug 5, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> I see 101 threads on how should I sell my book, why isn't my book selling, etc. As you all know I read quite a bit. Here is my biggest pet peeves on a book.
> If you are setting your book in a location that you are not real familiar with, get a map. Do a bit of research, please. I have noticed this in more than one book by different authors. If you want a person to get from point A to Point B and Point B is Southwest of Point A, do not have them go Hundreds of miles SE(on little back roads) then go another several SW only to make them go back NW for hundreds of Miles to finally go the actual direction needed. And learn your roads. This made it obvious that you had never been to the area.
> Also on mapping, please look and see where you want your location to be. Do not say it is one region but the town you are writing about is 200 miles from that region.
> Most states offer free maps by mail. Use this resource.


My book takes place in Oregon, even though I've never been there. I've done some research, hope that's okay. However, my characters DO travel states to go to a couple of cities, but it's part of the 'we're following this clue'. Then, when all is wrapped up, they go back to the state they came from.
Would you think this is bad then? 

'Cause they go from Portland to Salt Lake City and back again. XD

The cities, however, have been strategically chosen, because they were the most logical cities the people in my book would settle in, seeing the place they came from  Which was Utah. OOOOOOH I'm spoiling too much of my books here ... nevermind!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

vrabinec said:


> I'm curious about how it's perceived if the author writes a stand alone book that he MIGHT turn into a trillogy IF the first book garners decent numbers. But he plans to move onto somthing else if it flops. Does that qualify as deception, if he then DOES write the other two books?


I don't think so IF the initial book has a satisfactory ending rather than a cliff-hanger. You can leave plenty of room for more without making the reader want to throw the first one against the wall. LOL If you end a supposed stand-alone with a blatant cliffhanger, that is cheating imo.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

CeeDee said:


> Yes, and if I may chime in, please avoid: ... picked up his Gillette shaver ... looking for her purse in her D&G bag ... a spoon full of Maxwell coffee grind ... avoid brands, please.
> Some people don't know brands, especially if your reader is from an other part of the world. And flying from the US to europe takes at least 8 hours and is always over night (if commercial, and from Europe to the US by day) ... ;-)
> 
> I've been thrown more than once out of the story by something like that :O


Actually, I can get from NY to London in about 5 hours depending on the time of year, and I can catch a 5 am flight out of NY that will be daylight the whole way....


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## JohnHindmarsh (Jun 3, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I use Smith & Wesson, Glock, Ruger, and HK for guns. They drive a Range Rover, and drink Coke and San Miguel beer. Seems silly to make up names nobody ever hear of. If people use the names in normal conversation, it makes sense to use them in writing. Some names are used, and some aren't. depends on the product.
> 
> But I do confess to naming a newscaster Bear Donner.


This. We use FBI, CIA, Congress, Senate, etc - why not a Suburban SUV, a Glock, a Harley, Spitfire, etc...?


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

telracs said:


> Actually, I can get from NY to London in about 5 hours depending on the time of year, and I can catch a 5 am flight out of NY that will be daylight the whole way....


A nice reminder of how easy it is to be wrong. I just want a good story--if the author takes me along a fun ride with convoluted roads and brand names I'm not likely to complain as long as it's a good read, but then that's just me.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> I don't think so IF the initial book has a satisfactory ending rather than a cliff-hanger. You can leave plenty of room for more without making the reader want to throw the first one against the wall. LOL If you end a supposed stand-alone with a blatant cliffhanger, that is cheating imo.


Agreed. It's quite possible to tie up a story nicely, yet still be able to expand upon it in the future. A standalone cliffhanger, though, would seriously tick me off.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

WordSaladTongs said:


> A nice reminder of how easy it is to be wrong. I just want a good story--if the author takes me along a fun ride with convoluted roads and brand names I'm not likely to complain as long as it's a good read, but then that's just me.


*THIS* At the end of the day it all comes down to story telling. Some authors can go into near-mindnumbing details on items and still be entertaining, others not so much.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> I'm curious about how it's perceived if the author writes a stand alone book that he MIGHT turn into a trillogy IF the first book garners decent numbers. But he plans to move onto somthing else if it flops. Does that qualify as deception, if he then DOES write the other two books?


How can you deceive if you don't know the truth?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

S.P. van der Lee said:


> My book takes place in Oregon, even though I've never been there. I've done some research, hope that's okay. However, my characters DO travel states to go to a couple of cities, but it's part of the 'we're following this clue'. Then, when all is wrapped up, they go back to the state they came from.
> Would you think this is bad then?
> 
> 'Cause they go from Portland to Salt Lake City and back again. XD
> ...


That is fine as long as the route makes sense.
If you have someone going from Portland to Salt Lake City via Los Angelos (for no reason) then yes I would be a bit peeved. In the case I described, the route made no sense if you knew the roads. It would have made more sense to stay on the main highways and not go 350 miles out of the way.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I invent my locations, but I still spend ages on Google Streetview so I know what I'm talking about!


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Generally speaking, as a writer, I try to make things as realistic as possible. (I loves me some google maps, for example. The street view feature is the absolute best thing ever for exploring places I've never been and am now writing about. I figure I still screw up occasionally, however.) I did write a book recently where I veered out of the realm of realism for a bit, and I stand by my call. I had a character chained up in a basement for nine days, and I decided not to even get into the idea of how in the hell she was using the bathroom, because it would have completely ruined the tone of the story. (There were some deviant sexual overtones, and I just didn't feel like going there.) Yes, that means that the story is basically completely unrealistic, but--as far as I'm concerned--Dana Gray's waste removal system was no longer necessary for her to function for those nine days.

As a reader, I guess I don't get too bent out of shape when things aren't realistic either. Like, that bit in _Breaking Bad_ where they dissolved that body in that kind of acid? Yeah, not so much. Wouldn't have eaten through the tub. I still really like the show, though. The lack of realism didn't bug me.

Now, if a character has what I consider an unrealistic reaction to something in a story? Yeah, that pulls me out immediately. Or if a plot point makes absolutely no sense? Drives me up a wall. (Case in point, on _Star Trek: Into Darkness_, why does Kahn manipulate that other guy with the sick girl to go blow up that place? Can't he do it himself? He does everything else himself. That was just a stupid set up so that we would know that Kahn's blood healed people.)


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

telracs said:


> Actually, I can get from NY to London in about 5 hours depending on the time of year, and I can catch a 5 am flight out of NY that will be daylight the whole way....


Well, yes, NY - London may have more connection choices ... duly noted. Possible I'm a little off here. Didn't ever catch such a flight, though. Connections I looked up the last years - and flew - were to the states in the a.m., from the states in the p.m. (and arriving in the morning).


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

The one time I've used a real city as a location in a story, I had Google map/street view open the entire time (days if not weeks).  It was a city park and I swear if I went there today I'd be able to get around that park in the dark, just from having studied it so closely.

Regarding product names and such...  I don't care for those old "glitz and glamour" books in which we're told what upscale restaurant the characters go to, the expensive brand of wine they drink, what singer they listen to, the name of the fancy-pants artist whose work is in their pent-house apartment, etc.  I know those things add a bit of flavor, but come on, people, there's such a thing as overkill.  I usually just skip those descriptions til I get to the dialogue anyway.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

trying this a third time.
Using company names is ok.   Being insulting about a company is not.

On books, do not advertise part of a book as a stand alone.   If the book has no ending and you have to buy another one to find out what happened, that is NOT a novel but an episode/serial.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

This is a great thread. I wish more readers would post their likes and dislikes about books they've read. I've learned so much from your post, cinisajoy, and it's helped me to be more aware of my writing pitfalls. Thank you.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

The rule of thumb I use is that if you're simply mentioning a company/restaurant/store/etc then go ahead and use it. If you're actually setting it there -- particularly if something that would cast that place in a bad light occurs -- then make up the location.

As for name dropping and pop culture...I have two words for you: Jane Austen. _Northanger Abbey _ is riddled with references to Mrs. Radclyffe and all the popular gothic novels of the time. And she talks about famous assembly halls, styles, etc. It didn't work out too bad for her, eh?

Books are a product of their time. Anyone who says you need to write something so that it is timeless is quite frankly scrubbing it of the very points that will give it charm and ground it in context. These little things can really add to a deeper understanding of characterization and if anyone is unfamiliar with the references, meh...they can look it up. I really think you're underestimating your readers.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

WordSaladTongs said:


> A nice reminder of how easy it is to be wrong. I just want a good story--if the author takes me along a fun ride with convoluted roads and brand names I'm not likely to complain as long as it's a good read, but then that's just me.


Sometimes it's as much about what the reader knows as what the author knows. I probably wouldn't notice bad directions on the West Coast, but mess up directions in NYC and I'll be unhappy.
I won't know if you used the wrong word for a pistol, revolver, etc, but misname a Broadway theater and I'll be jarred out of the story.

Regarding brand names, one of the things to remember is that that using them can date a story more than you want.



CeeDee said:


> Well, yes, NY - London may have more connection choices ... duly noted. Possible I'm a little off here. Didn't ever catch such a flight, though. Connections I looked up the last years - and flew - were to the states in the a.m., from the states in the p.m. (and arriving in the morning).


Depends on your airline. And as you noted, your destination.


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## 48209 (Jul 4, 2011)

I completely agree about location. It's a pet peeve of mine as well. It's gotten to the point where I've slowly built up my standard email for friends who ask about writing Boston. 

There are writers from all over the world here - it's a great resource. When in doubt, if research doesn't work, ask here.


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## S.P. van der Lee (Aug 5, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> That is fine as long as the route makes sense.
> If you have someone going from Portland to Salt Lake City via Los Angelos (for no reason) then yes I would be a bit peeved. In the case I described, the route made no sense if you knew the roads. It would have made more sense to stay on the main highways and not go 350 miles out of the way.


Okay, phew! They always go the fastest, quickest way, luckily  Obviously ... who would take a long route, especially if you're being hunted! ROFL. Reminds me of Dan Brown's books. 'Oh, geez, let's go watch some scenery while the peeps behind me shoot their guns at me, I've got plenty of time to describe my surroundings!'


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

CeeDee said:


> And flying from the US to europe *takes at least 8 hours and is always over night* (if commercial, and from Europe to the US by day) ... ;-)


Not always. Direct flights from an East Coast hub to a European hub can take as little as 6-7 hours. And while most people prefer the overnight flights from the US to Europe, there are in fact daytime flights, depending on the airline.

Here's an example:
British Airways

JFK>LHR

8:30a

8:15p

6h 45m

0

$880

Note that the flight leaves JFK at 8:30 am and arrives at Heathrow at 8:15 pm, and that the flight takes 6 hours and 45 minutes.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

telracs said:


> Regarding brand names, one of the things to remember is that that using them can date a story more than you want.


'The Stars My Destination' is a good example. When I read it a few years ago, the only thing that told me it was written nearly sixty years ago was the mention of companies from that era who have either failed or sunk to a shell in that time.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Edward M. Grant said:


> 'The Stars My Destination' is a good example. When I read it a few years ago, the only thing that told me it was written nearly sixty years ago was the mention of companies from that era who have either failed or sunk to a shell in that time.


See, and while I have not read that story, I personally would find that to add to its charm. I *like* seeing outdated companies mentioned in stories written a long time ago because it gives grounding in time and place. In the case of this story, since it's science fiction, it's not grounding the setting of the story in a particular time but rather when it was written.

Like I said, literature is a product of its time.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Good one, Cinisajoy! As a reader myself, I agree with most of what you said except name brands. I drop name brands, both real and imaginary, all the time in my WIPs, but so far no companies have paid me for product placement. I would like to be paid in pallets of organic chocolate and a box full of Starbucks gift cards, please. 



Duane Gundrum said:


> The location thing drives me nuts when I read a book and someone is just winging it through an area he or she has never been. It's why I only write about locations I have visited or researched extensively.


Hear ye! Hear ye! I just read a novel that was set in *my* town, and the author has NEVER been here so she has like NO IDEA what's here. Ticks me off (sorry, I am generally a peaceful sorta soul) that she didn't do enough research to at least find out real facts. Actually I'm unhappier with the tradpub editor/publisher for not telling her to do more research before they published it LOL.

Another writer has won awards for her novels and she sets her entire series in Alaska and admitted in interviews that she has never been there, but she has done SO MUCH research that people who have been there have told her that her descriptions are so realistic. I hope some day she will be able to visit the places of which she speaks, unless she can't afford it on her tradpub advances. FWIW, Alaska is a beautiful place. Next time I go back, I will try to get to the Arctic Circle. Then I can write about that too LOL.

I like what Michael Connelly does with his Harry Bosch books. All his locations are real:

http://www.michaelconnelly.com/video/photo-gallery/


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Lydniz said:


> I invent my locations, but I still spend ages on Google Streetview so I know what I'm talking about!


Unfortunately streets can change quite quickly. We had a roundabout/traffic circle close to a hospital entrance and a major interchange and the roundabout was recently changed to traffic lights  My GPS still tells me 'in 400 metres enter roundabout'.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I tend to spend a lot of time checking every little thing - because you never know. I was going to have my MC wear charcoal Calvin Klein stretch boxers, but could only find them online in black. No doubt someone would be only too happy to point this out as a mistake  .


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Fixed OP to make more sense.  I had put a word in the wrong place.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

I don't know why more authors don't have maps, especially for fantasy or sci-fi.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

I never use real locations unless it's a big city or somewhere famous. I LOVE making up small towns and putting them kind of where another similar small town would be. I don't often travel in my books, either. I like to stay in one place and let readers get to know the townsfolk, etc. Heck, one of my books takes place almost entirely in a box.

Great thread! There's a lot for me to consider as I've been planning a series of books that would require a lot of travel. I'll make sure to use Google Maps extensively.


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## Steamdave (Sep 24, 2013)

I can get really obsessive about local details - I've a 40k words story set in China in the 30s, and I spent ages checking out photographic reference to determine if a certain street in Shanghai had tracks for streetcars or not.
Just an example.
I'm lucky I love historical research - and usually out of the research for a story can come some idea for a non fiction book or article.

On the other hand, *I hate* being so obsessive.
I mean, I'm the author, we are rushing headlong in a complicated chase scene, it's night, it's raining, it's 1934, Shanghai, if my character, in his first person narrative, tells you, dear reader, there's streetcars running in Avenue Joffre, what the heck, that's it.

(that's why I keep my narrators unreliable - it gives me some maneuvering space)


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Terrence OBrien said:


> I use Smith & Wesson, Glock, Ruger, and HK for guns. They drive a Range Rover, and drink Coke and San Miguel beer. Seems silly to make up names nobody ever heard of. If people use the names in normal conversation, it makes sense to use them in writing. Some names are used, and some aren't. depends on the product.
> 
> But I do confess to naming a newscaster Bear Donner.


  I come to KB specifically to read Terrence.

Sometimes I want to make up names, it's expected to do that in SF. But sometimes I love hearing that Kalashnikov is still in business in the 25th century. I think that's too cool. I also write about both real and imaginary places and use them the way I see fit. Sometimes that's real, sometimes not.

My only addition to this post is - make sure you find the *right reviewers and readers* for your book. *THAT *is so much more important than being worried about what turns certain people on and off.


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## Tim_A (May 25, 2013)

I would imagine flights across the atlantic against the flow would be comparatively rare and somewhat slower than the norm, since they'd have to use a quite inefficient routing and couldn't take advantage of the jet stream. (the regular North Atlantic Track, which follows the jet stream quite closely is packed to capacity pretty much, at the smallest separation that safety and law dictate - 1000ft vertically, 2miles laterally, 60 miles astern). It switches direction at set times during the day, and aircraft do not go in the opposite direction, because picking up lots of small bits of metal from the bottom of the ocean is generally considered a bit bothersome.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

JanneCO said:


> I come to KB specifically to read Terrence.
> 
> Sometimes I want to make up names, it's expected to do that in SF. But sometimes I love hearing that Kalashnikov is still in business in the 25th century. I think that's too cool. I also write about both real and imaginary places and use them the way I see fit. Sometimes that's real, sometimes not.
> 
> My only addition to this post is - make sure you find the *right reviewers and readers* for your book. *THAT *is so much more important than being worried about what turns certain people on and off.


Are you saying that because I loved a blurb and thought the book would be good that I do not have the right to review or say anything because the author mislead me? The book was not as advertised in the blurb. It wasn't even a book but only a part of the book. The cover was misleading too.
But you are gonna say I was the wrong reader/reviewer because I didn't like it.

I guess I shouldn't go by blurbs or covers then you tell me how to find a book.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Are you saying that because I loved a blurb and thought the book would be good that I do not have the right to review or say anything because the author mislead me? The book was not as advertised in the blurb.


No, that's not what she's saying (or at least how I interpret it). Part of making sure your book gets into the right hands is having a blurb and a cover that conveys the right message in the first place.


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## Joshua Dalzelle (Jun 12, 2013)

As a scifi author I have the luxury of making up many of my locales... but the distances and dimensions still need to be realistic. 

My third book had some scenes take place on Earth and at some notorious locations, so I spent more than a few hours researching specific details to make sure a mistake didn't snap my reader out of the story.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Joshua Dalzelle said:


> As a scifi author I have the luxury of making up many of my locales... but the distances and dimensions still need to be realistic.


Yeah, the downside of hard SF is that you can't just make things up any more. Even for 'Fade To Grey', which is more like hard space opera, I spent most of an evening hunting for a star at the right distance from Earth for the back story to work.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

I love historicals and actually enjoy historical research. I just don't have the patience for the level of detail needed, which is why I love time travel because I get to "see" history as filtered through the eyes of my modern-day heroine, so it's not surprising that she brings 21st-century sensibilities to her interactions and will sometimes get things wrong.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

My pet peeve is when the main character has to constantly tell you how scared she feels about the hot guy talking to her. How nervous she is, blah blah blah. Okay, we get it. Mention it once. Not interspersed between every two lines of dialog ... though I suppose it does make the book 20% longer.

/rant over

ETA: I should say that as long as an author delivers a great read that isn't boring, I'm happy. They can put pictures of their cats at the end of the book as far as I'm concerned. Houston can be in Idaho, and that's okay.  But that's just me! We are all different. It's always good to hear what readers get ticked about so we can try to keep more of our readers happy.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

My pet peeve? When they work a gun into the story but don't know a thing about it. Example, in Nicolas Spark's last book (which was made into a movie), the meanie husband that the abused wife is hiding from, finds her at a fair. She is getting away and he is moving quickly through the crowd to catch her and has a gun in his hand, hidden by a hat. I'm not going to bother pulling it up on the kindle and giving exact quotes, but he refers to it as a Glock, but then he is described as flicking off the safety while chasing her (anticipating shooting). A Glock does not have a safety you can turn off. It does have a built-in trigger safety, but no safety button, like... my 380, or my 1911. Can't turn safety on and off on any of my Glocks


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

L.L. Akers said:


> My pet peeve? When they work a gun into the story but don't know a thing about it.


I read a 'true crime' book once which was supposed to have been written by a gangster who'd been in the business for decades. When he got to the part about putting a silencer on a revolver, I knew he was just making stuff up.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

*sigh*

I have a feeling some of this rant comes from Cindy having to point out to me that Austin, Texas, is NOT in western Texas. This is doubly embarrassing for the fact that I'm a very, very, big geography nerd. And that I've been to Texas many times. And that I KNOW Austin is between San Antonio and Dallas in the central part of the state. And my best friend growing up lived in Austin for eight years. And my brother lived in Dallas for six. 

And (lots of 'and' going on here!) I spent an entire day feeling both stupid and sick to my stomach after publishing a serial that was so screwed up that I've had to unpublish it until I can fix it. And I spent most of last night after talking to Cindy feeling as stupid as one can possibly feel after she reminded me Austin is nowhere near El Paso (normally I'm all over Google Maps when I am writing about somewhere other than Idaho or Florida). 

And she also alerted me that my Scrivener dictionary, as well as Amazon's spell-check service when you upload the book, both claimed that 'canister' was to be correctly spelled 'cannister' (someone who uses Scrivener, please check this for me...I might have accidentally added this spelling to the dictionary's library). 

While she's probably talking about someone else entirely in this thread, I can't help but feel I'm the one that got her started on the rant about locations (though she did point out another author driving 200 miles SE instead of SW to me, but still...). 

Cindy is a great reader, and one that is a rarity in that she'll engage with just about anyone and in any genre. Some authors think she's a bit brittle or vitriolic (heh, inside joke I suppose), but I believe she's read enough books and is intelligent enough that she's simply stating her opinions (when she's not bludgeoning me with facts like AUSTIN IS NOT IN WEST TEXAS!). 

So I would just like to use my little soapbox to both apologize for harshing on her state with my ignorant geography lapse, and to thank her for spending the time to smack me around a little and let me know what I'm doing wrong (everything! lol).


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## Tim_A (May 25, 2013)

My Scrivener flags cannister as wrong.

(lol, autocorrect in the browser corrected my typing - had to go back and put in the second n)


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Cindy is indeed made of awesome.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

Tim_A said:


> My Scrivener flags cannister as wrong.
> 
> (lol, autocorrect in the browser corrected my typing - had to go back and put in the second n)


wtf...I must have told Scriv that 'cannister' is correct somehow.

I love, LOVE my Scrivener, but I am really about at the edge of tolerance for its horrible dictionary. I have to add anywhere from 2-10 words to it each chapter. Not weird or scientific words either. Everyday, run of the mill words. It's not good when I have to run the pages through MS Word and/or check Oxford/Webster's dictionaries to verify that Scrivener is indeed stupid and incorrect a lot of the time.

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread and go O/T.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

It's ok Travis.    Though this rant of mine was about numerous authors that I have read.  Glad we got you fixed on canisters.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> I love, LOVE my Scrivener, but I am really about at the edge of tolerance for its horrible dictionary. I have to add anywhere from 2-10 words to it each chapter. Not weird or scientific words either. Everyday, run of the mill words. It's not good when I have to run the pages through MS Word and/or check Oxford/Webster's dictionaries to verify that Scrivener is indeed stupid and incorrect a lot of the time.


I have had to add words to any of the dictionaries I've ever used on both PC and Mac, so I'm not surprised Scriv dict is incomplete. My only concern is sometimes I accidentally typed in the wrong spelling and tell it to store it LOL.



AngryGames said:


> So I would just like to use my little soapbox to both apologize for harshing on her state with my ignorant geography lapse, and to thank her for spending the time to smack me around a little and let me know what I'm doing wrong (everything! lol).


Cinisajoy is a gem, I tell you. When I spent too much time on KB (uh-oh... what am I doing here right now LOL) she *gently* reminded me that I should be writing, that my book is not on KB. And she is right! Now, if I were a Regency debutante, I'd be wiping tears off my eyes, but no, I'm a 21st century woman, and I can handle the truth! I just thought of something that seems to fit what I'm trying to say but it's not meant to be offensive - it just seems to fit what I'm saying about constructive criticism: "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful" (Prov 27:6). I much prefer a person telling me as it is than try to sugarcoat anything.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> Are you saying that because I loved a blurb and thought the book would be good that I do not have the right to review or say anything because the author mislead me? The book was not as advertised in the blurb. It wasn't even a book but only a part of the book. The cover was misleading too.
> But you are gonna say I was the wrong reader/reviewer because I didn't like it.
> 
> I guess I shouldn't go by blurbs or covers then you tell me how to find a book.


Wow - that's quite a jump.

I never said any of that, you did.

I said, authors should worry more about targeting the right readers/reviewers than worrying about individual "pet peeves". I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying who cares? So you hate these things, lots of people like them. Some people hate italics. Some people hate no paragraph indents and double spaces between paragraphs. Some people hate alpha males. Some people hate strippers. Some people hate characters who swear. Some people hate books set in the Amazon. Who. Cares.

Writers who run into readers that don't like how they personally write a story should not even remotely give a crap unless they are superfans and the author deviated from their norm. Then, *if they are interested in keeping those readers*, they should care. But maybe they're not interested in keeping those readers? Then they should not care. They should move on, just like the reader does. Find the people who DO like the way they do things and don't worry about the ones who don't.

Or not.

I could care less what other authors do.

But I certainly pay a lot more attention to the people who like what I do right than those who complain about what I do wrong.


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## Scotty Weeks (Sep 26, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Are you saying that because I loved a blurb and thought the book would be good that I do not have the right to review or say anything because the author mislead me? The book was not as advertised in the blurb. It wasn't even a book but only a part of the book. The cover was misleading too.
> But you are gonna say I was the wrong reader/reviewer because I didn't like it.
> 
> I guess I shouldn't go by blurbs or covers then you tell me how to find a book.


This is actually funny because I think you might be talking about Purgatory, since you gave it a poor review based on the fact that it was a serial. I also think you have pretty poor reading comprehension because the place you originally read the blurb was in a thread where I had mentioned several times that it was a serial novel (albeit one where there were plots that were resolved within episodes, however the main arc lasts the whole series). Whatever, it's not really any skin off my back, past being a bit annoying.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

JanneCO said:


> But I certainly pay a lot more attention to the people who like what I do right than those who complain about what I do wrong.


Me too.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

JanneCO said:


> Wow - that's quite a jump.
> 
> I never said any of that, you did.
> 
> ...


Thank you for clearing that up. I did go over and look at some of your books. They do look good. Now how do you feel about cussing stripping alpha males? 
Sorry I took what you wrote wrong.
Now even I will admit that I would make a lousy reader/reviewer for someone that does HF or Christian anything. Those are the categories I normally don't read. Oh and straight romance tends to bore me.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

I know people from other places write about New York all the time, but it really drives me crazy that they often don't seem to understand that:
1) Manhattan is a seperate island, the smallest, and a burrough that we refer to generally as either "New York" or "The City". This is where a lot of the main tourist attractions like Broadway, Times Square, Museum of Natural History, Central Park, etc are.

2) The Bronx is a seperate burrough (Yankee Stadium, The Bronx Zoo and The Botanical Gardens are here) located in a southeastern area ON NY state. It's NOT on Manhattan island but joined to it by bridges.

3) Long Island is a seperate island, the largest, and NOT a burrough. In old movies, when NYrs mentioned "going to the country" they usually mean either Upstate New York (anything north of The Bronx), Long Island Or Conneticut.

4) Staten Island is a seperate island and a burrough.

5) Brooklyn and Queens are NOT located in/on Manhattan island. Even though they may seem (in movies) to be in Manhattan, they're really burroughs located on the most western areas of Long Island. Coney Island is in Broooklyn. Laguardia Airport and JFK airport are in opposite areas in Queens. People from Brooklyn and Queens are so close to Manhattan geographically that they often say they're from The City. For the most part, NYers let them enjoy that illusion. (Ok, we do roll our eyes.)

6) Westchester is NOT a burrough. It is located just north of The Bronx.

7) When we say "New York" we usually mean Manhattan. If we mean anywhere else in New York state besides the 5 burroughs we usually say "New York State" or "Upstate".

Phew. Felt good to get that out.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2013)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Google Maps is your friend, both map and satellite view.


That's the beauty of fantasy. The world is how I say it is. But she's not wrong about location familiarity. In a modern setting, I would try to keep to places I knew, if at all possible.


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## Scotty Weeks (Sep 26, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> You may have said it was a serial novel in the thread here at Kboards. But you did not say it anywhere at Amazon where people actually buy books. Not all readers come to Kboards and very few come into the Writer's Cafe.
> I think I also told you that I think it would be a great novel but not in pieces.


On Amazon it says that it's part of a serial novel.

In the thread that you were participating in (where you saw the blurb and decided to read it) it said it was a serial novel. Then you said that you'd been deceived into thinking it was something it wasn't. Listen, I appreciate that you took the time to read it (and I appreciate that you like the writing itself) but I find the review and the later rant in this thread a bit baffling. That's all.

Only bringing it up because it was brought up in the thread.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

I think Cindy is right in that it's a good idea for a writer to make the effort to get their facts straight. Being one who is constantly geographically challenged, Google is definitely my friend. I drive around in circles constantly, so I try to make sure my characters (and readers) don't suffer the same frustration.  

I love that Cindy is so active on these boards. I wish more readers were.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Scotty Weeks said:


> On Amazon it says that it's part of a serial novel.


As the very last line of a somewhat long-ish blurb, "under the fold" so to speak (you have to click "more" to see it). Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of readers miss that part, particularly since it doesn't say anywhere on the cover that it's part of a serial (whereas the other episodes do),

It's not my genre, so I wouldn't be buying it, but I'd be annoyed if i did somehow purchase it. I personally can't stand serials, so would be quite annoyed to only discover this fact upon arriving at the end.

(And from a strategic point, so far you have three episodes of about 50 pages each, 99 cents each. You'd probably do better to list a bundle of the three episodes for $2.99, which is essentially the same price for the reader, but you'd earn sigificantly higher royalties by getting the 70% rate.)


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

EC Sheedy said:


> I love that Cindy is so active on these boards. I wish more readers were.


Cindy is also a writer.

I think it's great for writers to be avid readers. I'm one myself but I don't write reviews. I fear the boomerang.


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## Hudson Owen (May 18, 2012)

I did substantial research for my comic novel A Knock At The Door, building up brick-by-brick Zekoslovakia (Czechoslovakia) with the capital Grimme
(Prague) and so on, so that a European would know where he or she was in the story and a unfamiliar traveler would get a feel for the place.  Such books can become deeply personal.  My late aunt became the formidable Aunt Helena, who lived on the other side of town in a room filled with bright crystals and made jam tarts for the MC when he was a boy.  I think those associations and additions of the personal give the story and its characters an extra charge or boost the reader can feel if not quite locate.


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## WordSaladTongs (Oct 14, 2013)

It's always fun to travel into people's heads like this. But it's important to remember that for everyone who is bothered by X, there is someone who loves Xanax. I mean, X. So sometimes (and I think someone already said this) it's more about finding your audience than it is about trying to please everyone. (Note that this only addresses some of the points made in the OP.)

As for brand names dating books that is totally true but for some genres it's still a thing and what would be more distracting to me than reading about "totally tubular Z Cavariccis" would be reading made up brands that have no context--even historically.


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## Scotty Weeks (Sep 26, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> As the very last line of a somewhat long-ish blurb, "under the fold" so to speak (you have to click "more" to see it). Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of readers miss that part, particularly since it doesn't say anywhere on the cover that it's part of a serial (whereas the other episodes do),
> 
> It's not my genre, so I wouldn't be buying it, but I'd be annoyed if i did somehow purchase it. I personally can't stand serials, so would be quite annoyed to only discover this fact upon arriving at the end.
> 
> (And from a strategic point, so far you have three episodes of about 50 pages each, 99 cents each. You'd probably do better to list a bundle of the three episodes for $2.99, which is essentially the same price for the reader, but you'd earn sigificantly higher royalties by getting the 70% rate.)


Good advice. I'm actually releasing the last part in a few weeks and will be bundling them at that point. I'll likely update my book covers to be more explicit about it being a serial novel.

That said, it doesn't really change my bafflement at someone coming from a kboards thread where all of that was made clear, being somehow surprised at it, then going so far as to write a bad review specifically because it was a serial. It strikes me as odd, particularly when I would expect someone participating in a thread where I was asking for help to maybe post in the thread rather than on the amazon page (e.g. "Hey, it's not clear that it's a serial.")

It just seems weird. I'm not really precious about the reviews (or if someone genuinely doesn't like my writing, hey, degustibus non est desputantum and all), just seems strange to walk into a hotdog stand, order the special, then write a bad yelp review because you don't like hot dogs.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Scotty Weeks said:


> Good advice. I'm actually releasing the last part in a few weeks and will be bundling them at that point. I'll likely update my book covers to be more explicit about it being a serial novel.
> 
> That said, it doesn't really change my bafflement at someone coming from a kboards thread where all of that was made clear, being somehow surprised at it, then going so far as to write a bad review specifically because it was a serial. It strikes me as odd, particularly when I would expect someone participating in a thread where I was asking for help to maybe post in the thread rather than on the amazon page (e.g. "Hey, it's not clear that it's a serial.")
> 
> It just seems weird. I'm not really precious about the reviews (or if someone genuinely doesn't like my writing, hey, degustibus non est desputantum and all), just seems strange to walk into a hotdog stand, order the special, then write a bad yelp review because you don't like hot dogs.


I never saw anywhere in your asking for help that it was a serial. I knew at one point you said it was a series. There is a difference.


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## minxmalone (Oct 28, 2012)

JanneCO said:


> Find the people who DO like the way they do things and don't worry about the ones who don't.


I wish I'd learned this earlier. This one statement is the best way I've found to achieve the perfect balance between monetary success and personal satisfaction. Be clear and honest about what you write in your blurbs and tailor your cover art and marketing to your target audience. Then once you find the fans who love your style, it's a lot less pressure on you. Just my 2c.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

LBrent said:


> I know people from other places write about New York all the time, but it really drives me crazy that they often don't seem to understand that:
> 
> 3) Long Island is a seperate island, the largest, and NOT a burrough. In old movies, when NYrs mentioned "going to the country" they usually mean either Upstate New York (anything north of The Bronx), Long Island Or Conneticut.
> 
> 5) Brooklyn and Queens are NOT located in/on Manhattan island. Even though they may seem (in movies) to be in Manhattan, they're really burroughs located on the most western areas of Long Island. Coney Island is in Broooklyn. Laguardia Airport and JFK airport are in opposite areas in Queens. People from Brooklyn and Queens are so close to Manhattan geographically that they often say they're from The City. For the most part, NYers let them enjoy that illusion. (Ok, we do roll our eyes.)


As I recently explained to someone Long Island is just that a LONG island. Which has 4 NY counties on it, Kings, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk. The first two are boros of NYC, the last to are separate counties in their own right.

And the Bronx is the only boro that it is part of the mainland (Sorry Billy Joel, Miami 2012 just doesn't work logistically), all the rest are either islands (Manhattan and Staten Island) or part of Long Island.

Oh, and Manhattan is not Manhattan County, it is NY county.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Google Maps is your friend, both map and satellite view.


Not to mention STREET VIEW!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> I never saw anywhere in your asking for help that it was a serial. I knew at one point you said it was a series. There is a difference.


I don't often agree with cin, but I think this is an important point. A serial and a series are, in my brain, very different beasts.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

L.L. Akers said:


> My pet peeve? When they work a gun into the story but don't know a thing about it.


+1 Lately I've read a few mysteries/thrillers where someone has a semi-auto in a revolver caliber or vice versa. And the safety thing.

I've decided one of the reasons "write what you know" is good advice is that it's hard for anyone who knows nothing about a particular subject to write about it as if they do know about it just from research. I know horses and dogs. You can't believe the ridiculous, ignorant garbage you see about horses in Westerns and other historical novels. Dogs, not so bad, but I still see stories evidently written by someone who can't distinguish between breed differences in Beagles and Rottweilers. I asked a friend once whose husband was a neurosurgeon if you see as much error on medical subjects, and she said, "Oh, boy, do you!"

So I suspect if you know nothing about a particular subject and write about it from research, you're going to make errors that people who do know about the subject will pick up on and resent. I'm sure that's why you see many books where the author thanks some expert on a subject for reading the book for him and then adds, "Any errors are mine alone."

To me that's part of the whole target your audience thing. If you write a story featuring horses, the odds are a good percentage of your readers are going to be people who know and like horses. That's why the book appeals to them. Make a few really silly mistakes, and you go on those readers' never again lists. Or if the mistake isn't egregious, the reader may read more of your books, but you go on the "don't trust what she says" lists, which degrades their reading experience.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

telracs said:


> As I recently explained to someone Long Island is just that a LONG island. Which has 4 NY counties on it, Kings, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk. The first two are boros of NYC, the last to are separate counties in their own right.
> 
> And the Bronx is the only boro that it is part of the mainland (Sorry Billy Joel, Miami 2012 just doesn't work logistically), all the rest are either islands (Manhattan and Staten Island) or part of Long Island.
> 
> Oh, and Manhattan is not Manhattan County, it is NY county.


Well that certainly explains all those bridges. I never knew this and I have been to Manhattan and Queens. Also Hunt's Point once but do not ask me where that is in the NYC. Or I think it is Hunt's Point. Place where a bunch of trucks go to unload things.

Oh and Ellen on dogs. I know of at least one chihuahua that would starve himself to death before eating D O G food. I do not think that is common dog behaivor though.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

multiple reports -- thread locked for review

update: after a review, the thread will be re-opened.

BUT.

Please remember that we ask for courtesy in all areas of the board.

Writers -- remember that this is a public board and the Internet is forever! 

Readers -- you are entitled to your opinions but remember that sometimes the most courteous response is not to respond at all.

Long time members -- remember that you've seen it six times but the new folks haven't.

New Members -- please don't assume that YOU know better than folks who've been hanging out here for, literally, years. 

Also, in general, note that we actively discourage public critique of others' work _unless they have specifically requested it here._

The thread is currently on the Neighborhood watch.  Thanks for understanding.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Well that certainly explains all those bridges. I never knew this and I have been to Manhattan and Queens. Also Hunt's Point once but do not ask me where that is in the NYC. Or I think it is Hunt's Point. Place where a bunch of trucks go to unload things.
> 
> Oh and Ellen on dogs. I know of at least one chihuahua that would starve himself to death before eating D O G food. I do not think that is common dog behaivor though.


Hunt's Point is in The Bronx.


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## Joel Ansel (Oct 17, 2013)

One of my pet peeves is when characters are totally shielded from bullets if they duck behind sheet-rock walls, car doors(unarmored), hedges, etc.

I remember reading one book where the main character mentioned eating Taylor Ham multiple times. It was so often that this book would have made a good drinking game.

Another book really had me laughing. It featured a hike through the rolling hills and bluffs of Galveston. Now I've been all over that island several times throughout my life, yet somehow I missed that topographic feature.

About the Breaking Bad tub scene that Valeriec80 mentioned. Did you guys see where Myth Busters debunked that one? Not only would the acid not eat through the tub, but it might have a hard time dissolving the body as well. For me the scene was powerful enough that the mistakes were easy to overlook. I loved every episode of that show no matter the mistakes.

I'm not real big on using a lot of brand names unless it is crucial to the story. I also agree that using a brand can easily date a story.

I'm reminded of the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey even though it will always be one of my favorite movies. The title alone dates it. The use of brands like Howard Johnson's, Pan Am and the Bell Telephone logo date it even more.

Not that I'm always successful, I like for my writing to have a timeless quality to it.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

zjoe said:


> I'm reminded of the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey even though it will always be one of my favorite movies. The title alone dates it. The use of brands like Howard Johnson's, Pan Am and the Bell Telephone logo date it even more.


Or Battlestar Galactica where Commander Adama frowned over greenbar printouts as he plotted the next battle move.

For those who were born after Galactica, this is what greenbar looks like, and no, Dot Matrix is not a deleted character from Matrix Reloaded.









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190717737/


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

JanThompson said:


> Or Battlestar Galactica where Commander Adama frowned over greenbar printouts as he plotted the next battle move.
> 
> For those who were born after Galactica, this is what greenbar looks like, and no, Dot Matrix is not a deleted character from Matrix Reloaded.
> 
> ...


Of course not...Dot Matrix is a character from _Spaceballs_!


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

ChristinePope said:


> Of course not...Dot Matrix is a character from _Spaceballs_!


LOL! I forgot about her!

And this...









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/193865958933156359/


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## Joel Ansel (Oct 17, 2013)

I know it shows my age, but I fondly remember the old dot matrix printers. Lots of racket, but the ink lasted for ages. I still have an old plotter hooked to a Win95 computer in the back of my shop somewhere.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Related to the topic at hand:

I think a lot of people assume things went out of style a LOT earlier than they did.

I want to college in 2001 and we printed out computer code for assignments on a dot-matrix printer, my roommate had a boombox with bot a CD and cassette player, and we rented a number of movies on VHS for movie night.

However, in fiction, whenever someone my age comes in contact with a DMP, cassette or VHS tape, they act like they're encountering a butter churn or a cotton gin. It's especially annoying nowdays when writers are doing the same thing with CDs... *while CDs are still being sold in stores*.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> That is fine as long as the route makes sense.
> If you have someone going from Portland to Salt Lake City via Los Angelos (for no reason) then yes I would be a bit peeved. In the case I described, the route made no sense if you knew the roads. It would have made more sense to stay on the main highways and not go 350 miles out of the way.


The thing is that it would take minimal basic research to find out the most likely route. As long as it is reasonably likely, I'm not going to complain.


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## Diane Patterson (Jun 17, 2012)

I've run into the opposite thing in writing (unpublished, thank goodness), where the author blithely described someone talking on a phone in his car...in 1971.


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## Joseph Turkot (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks Cinisajoy. You are truly a voracious reader, and I will keep your comments in mind.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Diane Patterson said:


> I've run into the opposite thing in writing (unpublished, thank goodness), where the author blithely described someone talking on a phone in his car...in 1971.


Actually, some people did have car phones in 1971. Mostly rich people or business men, but still, the technology was there and they did exist. And for the record, the early phones were actually installed in the car, so they were't portable.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Jena H said:


> Actually, some people did have car phones in 1971. Mostly rich people or business men, but still, the technology was there and they did exist.


Indeed. Car phones have been around for decades (according to Wikipedia, since the 1940s), but kids think mobile phones were invented yesterday.

I remember a similar complaint from a trade-published author whose editor told him he had to change a scene on a plane because people aren't allowed to smoke on planes. Except it was set in the 70s or 80s, probably before the editor was born.

There are just as many readers who think the writers are wrong as there are writers who are wrong.


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## Joel Ansel (Oct 17, 2013)

Wow I remember carrying a bag phone and smoking on airplanes.
I feel so ancient.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Edward M. Grant said:


> Indeed. Car phones have been around for decades (according to Wikipedia, since the 1940s), but kids think mobile phones were invented yesterday.





Jena H said:


> Actually, some people did have car phones in 1971. Mostly rich people or business men, but still, the technology was there and they did exist. And for the record, the early phones were actually installed in the car, so they were't portable.


If it's on Pinterest it must be true LOL...

"Siemens car phone 1970s"









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190719124/


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

I remember seeing a car phone in an I Love Lucy episode, so I'm pretty sure they've been around for a very long time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3iGfx-QGI&t=3m32s


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2013)

RM Prioleau said:


> I remember seeing a car phone in an I Love Lucy episode, so I'm pretty sure they've been around for a very long time.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3iGfx-QGI&t=3m32s


Humphrey Bogart in Sabrina. He called from his car. 1954.


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## jdcore (Jul 2, 2013)

In 1990, I sent a manuscript to an agent who wrote back suggesting I strike a reference I made to the Simpsons as it would dat my story and be unrecognizable to people reading my story 20 years later.

True story.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

JanThompson said:


> If it's on Pinterest it must be true LOL...
> 
> "Siemens car phone 1970s"
> 
> ...


My Dad had a car phone very much like this in the early 1980s. At the time it seemed unbelievably cool.


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## mrain4th (May 19, 2013)

A good editor will catch most of this stuff!!


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

zjoe said:


> Wow I remember carrying a bag phone and smoking on airplanes.
> I feel so ancient.


I remember smoking on Braniff Airlines 

As for Galactica, I loved that the old bird wasn't networked, and had all old equipment compared to the modern ships. Now, I'm not saying you can't have a color laser printer in a non-networked setup (of course you can), but I think the dot matrix (another fond memory...if you've heard that noise it makes when printing, you will never forget it, just like you will never forget the sound of your old modem handshaking with a server) paper/printer is more to let viewers know that the Galactica was an old ship.

I mean...think about it...in a civilization that can travel the stars easily, would anyone actually use paper other than for spy purposes? If you think we are networked a lot now as a society/civ, what will it be like when we can hop aboard a ship and 'warp' or whatever to Rigel-9 or Tau Ceti-IV?

Or am I getting too off topic...?


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

jdcore said:


> In 1990, I sent a manuscript to an agent who wrote back suggesting I strike a reference I made to the Simpsons as it would dat my story and be unrecognizable to people reading my story 20 years later.
> 
> True story.


Now that' funny!


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Jena H said:


> Actually, some people did have car phones in 1971. Mostly rich people or business men, but still, the technology was there and they did exist. And for the record, the early phones were actually installed in the car, so they were't portable.


My granddad had a phone in his work car in the 70's. I think some companies still keep those kinds of phones since the places they work are in "no cell land". It was actually in the trunk. You picked up the receiver, flipped a switch and gave the operator the number you wanted to call. If I remember right, the cost was either $1 or $2 a minute. All us kids were shown how to use it but told only use it if there is a real emergency. Luckily we never had to use that phone.


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## Sandra K. Williams (Jun 15, 2013)

mrain4th said:


> A good editor will catch most of this stuff!!


A good editor who's being paid to catch this stuff will probably catch it. If you want your editor or copyeditor to check facts, it should be specified in your agreement.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Sandra K. Williams said:


> A good editor who's being paid to catch this stuff will probably catch it. If you want your editor or copyeditor to check facts, it should be specified in your agreement.


I agree with this.

Also, if you send your characters on a cross country jaunt, don't assume that your editor knows any better than you the route from Alberqueque to LA, or will be looking it up.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

telracs said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> Also, if you send your characters on a cross country jaunt, don't assume that your editor knows any better than you the route from Alberqueque to LA, or will be looking it up.


Well it looks like the fastest route from Albuquerque, NM to LA is I-40 to I-15 to I-10.

Yes I misspelled it too. Glad for streets and trips.


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## Missy B (Aug 20, 2012)

I have a lot of little pet peeves. It's a wonder I'm able to enjoy reading at all.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

cinisajoy said:


> Well it looks like the fastest route from Albuquerque, NM to LA is I-40 to I-15 to I-10.
> 
> Yes I misspelled it too. Glad for streets and trips.


I have this weird phonetic of it in my head, so i drop the r......


Spoiler



(listen to the Broadway cast recording of Titanic.)


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

telracs said:


> I have this weird phonetic of it in my head, so i drop the r......
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I lived there years ago. I always wrote it as 
name
address
Alb., NM zip


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