# Oberon Inconsistencies in dye & design?



## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

I am curious to see if anyone has had similar inconsistencies with their recent Oberon purchases...

My husband bought a "Singing Wolf" K3 cover and one of the corner straps was extremely loose. I contacted Oberon and they very helpful and quick to offer an exchange, which we really appreciated. However, the replacement has very uneven color coverage, so much so that on the back it looks like it has "bubbles". Also, the design itself is different than the original. The margins between the picture and the edge are much smaller on the replacement than the original, and the details in the design are even different (there are different stars, different placement of the moon, and different placement of the same stars).

My husband is very disappointed since he was hoping to exchange the faulty strap for one of equal quality and not have to exchange for yet another one. He has decided to keep the original with the large strap rather than keep one with odd dye patterns and a different design than what he ordered.

Has anyone else had any quality inconsistencies either with the strap, dye job, or pattern differences? I was pretty surprised at the disparity in appearances when the two were side by side. My husband is not sure he wants to go through getting a THIRD cover.

I HAVE contact Oberon about this, just waiting to hear back from them...

New one on the left, old one on the right. Notice the bubble-like dye pattern on the back. 


New one on the left, old one on the right. Margins and stars are different and some color dark/light areas apparent.


Closer look at the "turtle shell" bubble-like coloring on the back.


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## meleye (Jan 5, 2011)

I would expect inconsistencies in dye and design, since each one is handmade.  To me, that is proof that it is not put out by a machine.  I know in hand dyed fabric, there is a notice to warn people that variations in coloring are a part of the process.  All I can say is that if he isn't happy, to try again.  Or if he really likes the first one, send it in to have the strap repaired.  Everything I have seen from Oberon has been top notch, but humans do make mistakes.  I'm sure their customer service will help you out.


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

I would be unhappy with that too!  I missed the WoW factor with my first Celtic Hounds Kindle cover.  The "stamping" was so much deeper in the third section of the backside that the colouring was noticeably uneven and the design almost obliterated.  I did contact the CS department but decided to keep it as I am Canadian, and didn't want to take the chance of incurring additional costs of replacement.  Is it the angle or are the covers slightly different in size?  My kindle DX and iPad cover were fine.  Your second would not have passed my quality control standards and I am surprised it passed theirs.  As my husband pointed out, no one will really look at the back side and I know it makes it look handmade and real leather but aesthetically.......


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

I could send it back for the strap to be repaired, good point. I will ask him if he wants to do this.

The light/dark areas on are on the front as well, though not as pronounced on the back. If it were my cover, I would not want to keep it since it is more of a step down than the first cover, in my opinion. The strap on the replacement is still loose, as well, though moderately tighter than the first. However, it is still not as tight as the two I have (a new one and a used one I purchased here). So the new cover has more inconsistencies than the first 

Edit: I don't think the covers are different in size, but the margins are MUCH different and gives the illusion that they are not the same size.


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## SheilaLouise (Apr 3, 2011)

The design is not applied by hand. That is, this is not a hand-tooled design made up of small, individual components that are stamped into the leather by a person who places the end of a tool against the leather and taps the other end of the tool with a mallet -- a process that is slow and laborious. In this case, the entire design is on a plate. The plate and the leather are brought together under pressure and the plate stamps the design on the leather. Because the covers kuklachica has shown us are distinctly different, it is clear that different plates were used.

As for the dye, for the most part leather is died in quantity. Some time ago someone from Oberon posted a lengthy description of the all the steps involved in dying and finishing the leather. The only part of the process that could be called "done by hand" is the finishing, which involves the hand application of a darker color after the design has been stamped. The darker color dye is applied to the background and certain details in the design in order to make the design pop. Ideally, the color of the background should be fairly consistent from one item to the next. I say "fairly consistent" because I think there are bound to be some minor inconsistencies. However, the initial overall dying should be consistent and that means no streaks or the "bubbles" kuklachica described. Sometimes some areas in the leather will take dye differently, or there will be areas that have a slightly different texture which will result in the impression of a different color in those areas. Whatever the reason for color variations, most manufacturers would either avoid using that part of the leather or, if the product goes through the manufacturing process to completion, would designate that particular item a "factory second".

Kuklachica, I think your husband has more than ample justification for asking for a different replacement. I don't know if Oberon would accept not liking the different design as a valid reason for a return _if that were the only reason_, but surely they would agree that the streaks in the dye are a problem. For me, the lighter background would be a problem too because the design doesn't pop as it should. I don't think your husband should keep the cover with the loose part just because it's the lesser of two evils. Oberon expresses pride in the quality of their products, and I don't think these two examples meet their standard.


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## maries (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm sure this is frustrating but I agree with SheilaLouise that our husband shouldn't settle for the lesser of the evils.  He is paying the same as someone that gets a defect free case so should expect the same.  Surely they would make sure the 3rd one is up their quality standards before shipping.  It wasn't long ago someone posted a pic of her cover with a lot of the design detail missing.  If they need to re-do this again they are more likely to look into what is causing the issues.  While I am never excited to hear of customer service issues in my department, I am glad to find out there is a problem.  I can't fix what I don't know is wrong.  

Please post how this gets resolved.  I hope your husband finally gets a case without issues.


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## Feylamia (Mar 21, 2011)

I quite like the way the dye looks on the new cover, I have to admit. But I like the older plate design far better. If I could choose, I would go for the older plate design with the "bubbly" dye.


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

When I mentioned the black "dye" on mine obliterating the design, Amy from CS told me, the colour was burned in not dyed.  

I would be concerned about restitching the sewing because if the holes were not perfectly matched, the strap would be weakened by the enlarged holes.  

You shouldn't have to jury rig a solution but I would be tempted to "float" some thick material (craft foam, leather, cardboard etc) underneath the kindle to tighten it in place.  The success of this would depend on how loose the straps were.

It does look like a wrinkled piece of hide was used in the second maybe from an old cow like me!


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

Sheila, thank you for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense..



Holly said:


> I would be concerned about restitching the sewing because if the holes were not perfectly matched, the strap would be weakened by the enlarged holes.
> 
> You shouldn't have to jury rig a solution but I would be tempted to "float" some thick material (craft foam, leather, cardboard etc) underneath the kindle to tighten it in place. The success of this would depend on how loose the straps were.
> 
> It does look like a wrinkled piece of hide was used in the second maybe from an old cow like me!


Good points... if he does keep the original cover he has thought of putting velcro on the back to hold it in better when it stretches out even more. Or maybe a furniture leg rubber pad.

It does look REALLY wrinkled- I noticed that too. And he has used his cover for almost 2 weeks, and the new one is MUCH more wrinkled than the old one. It's almost as if this was a return itself... but who knows. I'll wait for Oberon's response and decide what to do from there!


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

Like the idea of a furnitue pad.  Brilliant!


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## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

I am not so big on jury rigging a fix on a $70 cover. These guys gotta get their act together. 

The advertised Singing Wolf on the Oberon site has what you are saying was the "old" cover. I wonder why they would change the plates and not change their advertised photo. Maybe your 2nd cover was actually something they had from a previous plate 

On the site all of the Singing Wolf cover appear to have a wrinkled back. Perhaps it is simply the leather they use now. Though I do prefer the smaller border on the front cover.


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## sparklemotion (Jan 13, 2011)

Oh wow, those really are different. Clearly different plates were used. I have noticed this on some of their other designs. I have the ginkgo leaf design and have seen others post pics and the plate used on mine is different from some I have seen.

I actually prefer the plate used on the new one much more, with the smaller borders, but the dye job is obviously better on the old one. What a shame. I really hope this gets resolved to your husband's satisfaction. It's awful to buy something (pricey too) and not be happy with it. I hope they're able to make it right and he ends up happy.


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

What would bother me here is not the wrinkles in itself but the unevenness of the distribution top to bottom. Just noticed when I brightened the setting of my screen what the bubbles you referred to look like.


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## AlleyGator (Mar 25, 2011)

Every once in a while there are boo-boos when a product is handcrafted. These, of course, are human errors. I have to agree with everyone that it looks like two different plates were used these covers. 

I feel certain that Oberon will fix (or should fix) any problem that is unsatisfactory to their customers. Let us know, kuklachica, how this gets resolved and I'm trusting that all goes well.


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

The term "handcrafted" has really become obscured by technological advances.  We are not talking about tooling the leather with a design here as I learned to do with a mallet forty years ago.  To me that is handcrafted by definition.  Hand crafted would take hours and cost a fortune.  Now, machines do it and I consider these covers more "produced" by definition.  On a small scale- not "mass produced".  The true artistry of these covers is in the design and production of the plates.

I wouldn't be surprised if the stitching and cutting is also done by computerized machine.  The stitching is just too perfect on all my Oberon covers to be done by hand.  Nobody can be that perfect.

On a smaller scale, I do not consider my current embroidery work to be handcrafted even though I choose the design and material and load the machine with the digital design. I digitize my own designs.  This involves some skill.  Sometimes, I get imperfections in the outcome if I am careless especially if I walk away during the production!  Sometimes I have to just discard the product.


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## maries (Dec 29, 2010)

Holly said:


> The term "handcrafted" has really become obscured by technological advances. We are not talking about tooling the leather with a design here as I learned to do with a mallet forty years ago. To me that is handcrafted by definition. Hand crafted would take hours and cost a fortune. Now, machines do it and I consider these covers more "produced" by definition. On a small scale- not "mass produced". The true artistry of these covers is in the design and production of the plates.


That is great that you learned how to do this. I wish I was craftier and more artsy. I wonder why they would change the plate designs then. Any idea?

I did see Sparklemotion post her Ginkgo and I thought it looked a bit different (more black and space where mine appears to have more leaves and the black for defining the lines is very subtle) than mine which is just from January.


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## dharts (Feb 15, 2011)

Amen, Holly, to everything you said. It reminds me of the "Amish handmade" furniture I see sold around here that has obviously been machine planed and milled, power tool assembled and finished with power sprayers. I guess the Amish must have oxen walking in a circle to provide electricity for all those tools.


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

Thank you all for your feedback. I have heard back from Oberon and thought I would post their response here to keep you updated as well.

I included pictures of the covers in my email to them as well.

_
Once again, we are very sorry you are not happy with your cover. If you would like to send the two covers back we can credit you for all the costs. As to the issues you discussed in your email: We do not dye individual covers. The leather hides are dyed at the tannery we work with and color inconsistencies are a part of what we deal everyday not to mention scars, thin areas in the hide that effect the tooling, cuts and scratches. Our leather is not painted so it is never perfect. Just to further clarify these issues, I have enclosed the link to the disclaimer on our site http://www.oberondesign.com/store/color.php. You can also reference the Care Card enclosed in your cover where we attempt to explain the technical issues we deal with.

Thank you for expressing that you would like to keep the original cover but if you do change your mind we are happy to credit you for the returned covers.

Warmest wishes,

Eileen_

To say I am disappointed and frustrated is an understatement. My husband will keep his cover because he does like it, but we will have to account for the stretched strap in the future. I am very surprised that the company defends the defects on this cover. It is not a case of a customer "being happy" with a product, but a product not being of the quality it is advertised as. They do specify on the site that there will be dye variations and streaks, but the cover I receive seems to be an extreme example of this. There are streaks in the original color, but nothing to the extent of the "bubbling" in the replacement. It would help if they put pictures of typical variations on their website.

If this is the quality that they defend and consider customers "unhappy" when they report problems like this, then I guess Oberon is not for me. I would be aware that any future purchases could arrive with these "variations" and that they will be heralded as an example of their quality products, not as a defect.


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## rainyday (Dec 26, 2010)

Since they are offering you a refund for both of them, I'm not clear why you are keeping one of the covers if you are not pleased with it.  Sounds like it will only annoy you in the future.


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## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

> We do not dye individual covers. The leather hides are dyed at the tannery we work with and color inconsistencies are a part of what we deal everyday not to mention scars, thin areas in the hide that effect the tooling, cuts and scratches.


   
Very interesting response. Maybe the next cover they sell will have inferior tooling because of a thin hide, or a handbag might have a cut down the middle... Essentially that response says they do not have quality control. They get the hide from the tannery and will sell it to the consumer no matter what the product looks like.

Sorry this happened to you.


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

rainyday said:


> Since they are offering you a refund for both of them, I'm not clear why you are keeping one of the covers if you are not pleased with it. Sounds like it will only annoy you in the future.


My husband decided to keep it because he really likes everything about it, except for the large strap. By exchanging it, we were hoping to improve this flaw, but received a inferior quality cover in place. I appreciate the fact that they offered a refund, but my husband really wants the cover, not the money. I would return it for a refund, but after the quality of the exchange cover I received, I am not certain that a third one would be of improved quality. My husband likes it enough to deal with the strap and not risk buying another one and receiving such "variation in the dye".


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## maries (Dec 29, 2010)

I agree there should be some quality control prior to making and or shipping.  Maybe they need to look at a new tannery or if that is a common issue with all tanning, work around these areas.   

Is there another color your husband likes?   Maybe this issue is more pronounced with certain colors or they just got a bad batch of a particular color.  

I would still try a 3rd and maybe another color.   Did they respond to the different designs or the loose straps which wouldn't be related to the tannery?  Did they offer to give this to you for less since the quality is lacking?   If you return it they will either throw it out or (hopefully not) sell it to someone else.

IF there are these issues that will happen because of the tannery or human error, they should maybe think about having a sale section for "seconds" that people could buy at a lower cost knowing what the problem is.


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

maries said:


> Is there another color your husband likes? Maybe this issue is more pronounced with certain colors or they just got a bad batch of a particular color.
> 
> I would still try a 3rd and maybe another color. Did they respond to the different designs or the loose straps which wouldn't be related to the tannery? Did they offer to give this to you for less since the quality is lacking? If you return it they will either throw it out or (hopefully not) sell it to someone else.


No, he's very particular about his colors  No, they didn't respond about the differences in the plate design or the looser than average straps.

They didn't offer to exchange it again, and I really don't want to have to deal with them again should there be any issues. If he's happy with the large strap, we'll just stick with this one. But, after this experience, this has confirmed for me that I won't be ordering from Oberon in the future.


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## blackcat (Jul 2, 2010)

I was just about to order an Oberon (but was erring towards a Noreve or Octovo) and this has put me off buying from them tbh, as being in the UK I wouldn't want to wait so long for a case to arrive which hasn't had any type of quality control on it and be possibly disappointed


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

blackcat said:


> I was just about to order an Oberon (but was erring towards a Noreve or Octovo) and this has put me off buying from them tbh, as being in the UK I wouldn't want to wait so long for a case to arrive which hasn't had any type of quality control on it and be possibly disappointed


It's too bad you won't be ordering an Oberon, but it makes total sense. If I were outside of the US, there is no way I would order. It's been a pain to have to send the case back, but even more frustrating to receive two poor quality cases in a row. I definitely would with one of the other two if I were you. Octovo cases look really nice!


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

I would have expected better from Oberon from a PR point of view. Rather than a defensive apology with a tinge of victim blaming for not taking the disclaimer into consideration, I would have expected to see an acknowledgement of the obvious flaws of the replacement that any discerning Oberon customer could see from your pictures.  It has the "ugh" factor that most of us who love theirs would cringe at.  (3 of 4 of mine are 100% perfect) 

A better resolution would have been to send a third that had personally passed the inspection of the head and actually fitted with a kindle to test the straps.  In a "small family business", this shouldn't be hard to accomplish.  An extra token along with a personal letter of apology for your trouble goes a long way too!  

As to the disclaimer, if you start out with a flaw in the hide, you will have a flaw in the product.  Expect to see some customers disappointed but that shouldn't minimise your concern.  It only lowers your standards of quality and over time diminish the fine reputation you currently have.  

Quoting Holmes on Holmes - Make it right!


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## maries (Dec 29, 2010)

Holly - they need to hire you!  The only apology I got to the custoemr was "Sorry you aren't happy" rather than an apology for the poor quality and blaming the tannery and pointing out their disclaimer.

I don't think a customer cares (I know I don't and the ones I deal with don't) what issues a company struggles with to provide a quality product or provide quality service, they expect a product (or service) that meets their standards and is consistent with what other customers receive.  It was very nice of the orignial poster to keep this cover.  I agree with how you would have handled it.  I think Oberon should have insisted that they fix this either with a new cover or by compensating the customer in some way.


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## B-Kay 1325 (Dec 29, 2008)

blackcat said:


> I was just about to order an Oberon (but was erring towards a Noreve or Octovo) and this has put me off buying from them tbh, as being in the UK I wouldn't want to wait so long for a case to arrive which hasn't had any type of quality control on it and be possibly disappointed


I understand the OP concerns and disappointment, however, I would like to say something in Oberon's defense here, there are hundreds of posts here and elsewhere where the parties are very satisfied with their products. I personally have two Oberon covers and absolutely love them. These covers are handmade and therefore there will be differences in each cover. I'm not trying to say that this particular situation isn't frustrating to the purchaser and that they don't have a reason to be upset, but the overall quality of Oberon's' products should also be considered and not judged by this instance. I have no affiliation with Oberon, I'm just a very satisfied customer.


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## Alicia P (Jan 13, 2011)

I can understand that inconsistencies in the way the hide takes dye makes them all unique, and while the one you have pictured is probably an extreme variant of normal, I do believe it would fall into the normal range for drum dyed items. I think a few applications of leather lotion and time will make the cover look very nice. BUT the image, the background of the image, and the bungee not being tight enough are all inconsistent as well and they didn't even address them, and those issues are very much a big deal. Maybe not each on their own but when all combined onto one piece they are, and they DO have direct control over all of them. So even though they have offered to refund you, which is a resolution of sorts, they have not addressed that there was in fact other problems with the product and have not IMO given you a reasonable explanation for them. 

It would just take a few extra minutes to say, variations in the dye are normal, and the background isn't as dark b/c of how the hide took the dye & we have changed our plates b/c we thought a smaller border would look better & it just happens that we switched mid week and your orders were caught in the crossfire, so you got one of each plate. Elastic is tricky and sometimes it slips when we are stitching it on, *insert a helpful suggestion for combating this problem here, like a stick on felt pad* Whatever the reasons were behind the inconsistencies they could have and should have been addressed. 

I would not expect to purchase two items from Walmart and send an email asking why they were different, but Oberon is by their own admission a small operation so they should have the answers, and good PR is being able to listen to the question(s) being asked of you and then to be able to make the customer fully understand the answer...... Bad news travels far faster than good news. So taking the time to give explanations, even when you don't feel it's necessary, is really a good thing for all


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

I love my Oberons too but I do not consider them "handmade".  Hand assembled maybe, at least the pewter buttons screwed on.  When you think of it, your car, your computer has elements of hand assembly too.  

Over forty years ago, I used a punch and mallet to make the holes (four at a time) and then a specially designed needle to hand sew the pieces together.  The result was "one of a kind" and by my definition handmade although some would have argued about it then because of the punch tools I used back then. Much to my surprise, it sold.  Unfortunately my proficiency didn't always match my vision.  When you consider the advancement and sophistication of today's tools. (err....  machines) , it is almost mind boggling to my over-aged mind.    In this case, it is the appearance of the hide, not anything else that creates it's individual uniqueness.  Times have changed.  The artistry is in the designs of the plates and buttons.  The term handmade has become blurry.  The only way I would consider these to fit my definition of handmade would be if ONE craftsman was responsible for all aspects from the dye, the design, the mold and pouring of the pewter onwards to it's completion.  They are "produced" and they are beautiful.


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## SheilaLouise (Apr 3, 2011)

B-Kay 1325 said:


> I understand the OP concerns and disappointment, however, I would like to say something in Oberon's defense here, there are hundreds of posts here and elsewhere where the parties are very satisfied with their products. I personally have two Oberon covers and absolutely love them. These covers are handmade and therefore there will be differences in each cover. I'm not trying to say that this particular situation isn't frustrating to the purchaser and that they don't have a reason to be upset, but the overall quality of Oberon's' products should also be considered and not judged by this instance. I have no affiliation with Oberon, I'm just a very satisfied customer.


This has been discussed but evidently a recap is necessary.

With all due respect for Oberon quality .....

The way in which Oberon products are "hand made" had no effect whatsoever on the differences we can see in the designs stamped on the OP's two covers because they were made with different plates. All the covers stamped with a particular plate will be identical in terms of the design (though not identical in terms of color). The method makes individual differences (placement of motifs, width of borders, etc.) impossible.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

I would hope that one or two peoples bad experiences with Oberon would not cause people to walk away from buying an Oberon product. I think that it is good that people are posting that they have had problems. It is good to have both good and bad experiences posted so that a buyer has a more complete picture. 

I agree that the covers are not hand made. They strike me as a nice balance between hand made and mass produced. Oberon uses a plate to stamp a design on to the leather. Then they do some other stuff to it that I don't understand, worlds least crafty person here, and send you the product. This allows them to make products at a more reasonable price and in a more timely fashion because they are not making each cover, journal, check book by hand. The plates are expensive and take a lot of time to get right but they seem like they would last a long time.

Each cover is made when it is ordered, they are not mass produced. The stamps have to be made to fit the various items that Oberon sells. This is why designs are limited for the ebook covers. Oberon does not sell enough of them to make every design available because of the cost of making a stamp for each type of ebook reader. Oberon makes covers for four Kindles (K1, K2, K3, KDX), two Nooks, and I think some of the Sonys. The K1's and Sony's you have to contact and ask them about but they had been on the website. My guess is that they still have the plates and can make them but that there is not enough demand to list them on the website.

So there is a nice balance that makes Oberons more affordable. Oberon uses high quality material and work on each order individually. They make mistakes and sometimes items not meeting their normal standards are sent out. I would say that this is rare, based on comparing the number of glowing reviews and the number of complaints. When it does happen, it would be nice if there was some one who specialized in customer service to help the customer.

I would agree that Oberons online rep is not the best. Whoever it is does answer questions but tends to be a bit short and blunt in their responses. God knows that I have not been their favorite poster (don't ask about customizing dye colors). There is a reason I did not go into a customer service type job, I am far to blunt and direct and that would piss people off.

With all that said, I have ordered my third Oberon Kindle cover/sleeve. The first two covers I received were excellent. I love my Red Sky Dragon. I like my Purple Sun. I thought I would love the Purple Sun, I had been lusting after it for ages, but for whatever reason have not fallen in love with it. It has nothing to do with the quality, which is excellent, but more my reaction to it. I am waiting for my Red Cloud Dragon to arrive and believe that it will be the same wonderful quality as my first two covers. If it is not I kind of dread dealing with Oberon because I know that they are a smaller company and that the folks who are trying their hardest to work with customers do not specialize in that area.


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## B-Kay 1325 (Dec 29, 2008)

Perhaps my use of the word "handmade" was misused, that said, the covers are not mass produced and are made from a natural product which will have differences.  The point of my original post was to suggest that consideration for purchases from Oberon not be based on this one unfortunate situation.  I was in no way trying to minimize the OP's situation, just reminding others of the hundreds of satisfied customers that Oberon has.


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## maries (Dec 29, 2010)

ProfCrash,
Good explanation of why they offer limited designs but then I wonder why they would need to limit the colors?

I can understand the hesitancy of the buyer in the UK.   Hard enough dealing with issues when in the US so the higher shipping and longer amount of time would be a factor.    Their response to this issue would have concerned me if the company hadn't already turned me off with their communication, customer service, and (in my opinion/experience) unprofessionalism.   I would say that the problem cases are a small percentage which I think could be minimized even more by a quick visual inspection prior to shipping and maybe slipping a Kindle (or Nook) in to be sure the straps are right.  With all the tanning issues they seem to have (based on the response), I think the very least should be a quick visual that would take minutes.  If they sold these as irregulars, they wouldn't lose out completely and the customer would know that they are buying something not perfect.  The customer shouldn't be the one to do their quality inspection.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

maries: I have no idea. I asked that question once before and the response I got was that they couldn't and then responses became terse after that. (shrugs) If the leather is dyed at the tanner and sent to them in larger pieces, how hard is it to take a purple hide and use it for a specific design? We know that they offer purple covers and sleeves so it can't be a thickness thing. This is were my lack of crafting ability comes in. For all I know, there are steps taken after the leather is stamped that involves a dye or something that is harder to do. I could understand them saying that a certain design would not look good in a specific color and then let the customer decide but I don't felly get the lack of color customization. 

Agreed. It is their responsibility to do quality control but stuff does get through even with tight quality control. 

People have gotten multiple Kindles with problems. Kindle Customer Service is trained to help people with problem Kindles. People get their replacements very quickly and keep getting replacements until the customer is satisfied. I imagine that Amazon has pretty good quality control and that the percentage of problem Kindles is small, but to the few customers who get one bad one, or even two or more, it does not feel that way. Amazons prompt replies and willingness to replace the Kindle makes the mistake feel less onerous.

The problem for a company like Oberon is that they are small. Their profit margins are smaller so replacements are more painful for them. Yes, tighter quality control would help fix that but given that they send out a large number of items that are in excellent condition I think that the quality control is actually pretty good. It does not feel that way or look that way for the OP and this situation but I am guessing that this is a rare event. This is not the customers problem, it is Oberon's problem.

The larger problem is that the person speaking for Oberon has not found a tone of "voice" that soothes the customer and makes the customer feel valued. So the problem has grown and the customer is dissatisfied enough to post about it. Which is a shame.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

I agree it was probably the tone and "feeling" of the response.  I think Oberon did the right thing, they offered a full refund, what else can they do?  But whoever is typing these responses does seem to me to be a little brusque (is that the right word)?


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## SilverMaple (Oct 20, 2010)

The bubble-look makes me think that particular cover is made from belly hide; a less expensive, and stretchier leather more prone to creasing as it is thinner than other hide on the steer.  I certainly hope Oberon is not making it a habit to buy belly leather.... my Oberon cover is lovely leather.  If it had been made from poorly-dyed belly leather, i would have returned it.


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## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

The fact that they tout themselves as a small company who individually makes every product as it is ordered is exactly why one would suspect that they would be looking to quality control. They are suggesting that they have a hand in every item that is produced. Do they not look at the product and personally inspect it? They should not let anything out the door that doesn't meet the standards that one would expect from a product in this price category. 

And I agree about the "tone" of the response from the customer service department. You know it is easy to go on message boards or FaceBook and say, "Hey guys, guess what is new. Hope you like it" but the skill comes in handling the customers who have product concerns.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

And the fact that many people on this board have received their products and been more then happy with the quality tells me that this case is a rare event. It should not have happened for precisly the reasons you mentioned but it did. People are not perfect, mistakes happen. 

They are a small company. The do individually make every product that is ordered. Someone screwed up. Unfortunently (sp) a mistake was made on the replacement cover. Oberon offered a refund, which is not what the OP wanted. They wanted the strap fixed. 

Are they lying about who they are or what they do? No.  Are they perfect? No. Could it have been handled better? Yes. 

I wish that the OP had an experience closer to mine or even the folks who had problems with their first covers and were happy with the replacement. I am sorry that the OP is not happy, they should be. But that would be the case if they ordered a less expensive case from any manufacturer.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

ProfCrash,

well summed up and well said.  I'm think we're just replowing the same furrow at this point.  I'm sorry that Kuklachica had a bad experience with a company with which so many of us have had good experiences.  I'm feeling that this discussion has more or less run its course unless there is any new information.

Betsy


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## Holly (Mar 8, 2011)

Agreed but blocking yet another thread about Oberon products only serves to highlight the issues that this company needs to address internally.  Best just let it slide down the page.  Kuklachica has settled and Oberon not officially responded here.  Not that they owe this board an explanation.  However this critique serves to balance all the raves that left me so disappointed with my first kindle cover.  This will not keep me from ordering from them again as I have a few wonderful examples of their work.  It might however lower my expectations of customer service should another concern arise.


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## Feylamia (Mar 21, 2011)

maries said:


> With all the tanning issues they seem to have (based on the response), I think the very least should be a quick visual that would take minutes. If they sold these as irregulars, they wouldn't lose out completely and the customer would know that they are buying something not perfect. The customer shouldn't be the one to do their quality inspection.


I think that's actually a really good point. I know many people, me included, like owning leather products with small flaws. I quite like the odd scar on many leather goods.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Holly said:


> Agreed but blocking yet another thread about Oberon products only serves to highlight the issues that this company needs to address internally. Best just let it slide down the page.


Don't believe I said anything about locking the thread...


Betsy


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and your informative responses!! 

Oberon has beautiful products of which I have 3 bought directly from them (a 4th was bought used, so I was able to see the cover before I bought it). My husband's cover is the only product we have had trouble with, and that was with both the original and replacement. I agree that no one should decide not to buy solely due to poor reviews, but it is good to see both sides of a company.

The reason that my husband wants the cover and not a refund is that he DOES like the cover and would like to use it for his Kindle. He will have to deal with the large strap. 

The part that is frustrating is that the cover, according to Oberon, was not defective and well within the normal production expectations for their products. If I were to order a third cover after receiving the refund, there is a possibility that it would have the same flaws. With no return policy, and Oberon not considering these issues a flaw, it is not a chance that we would not like to take. If I were to go to a restaurant and we both ordered the same meal and one was considerably worse than the other, AND the restaurant defended the meal, I would choose not go go there again. Or if Amazon had defended the Kindle losing its key print after a couple weeks of usage and not exchanged it- this would probably cause me to seek another company's ereader that acknowledged obvious flaws in their devices. 

If the leather they receive has flaws, then they should contact their leather supplier. They can choose whether or not to patronize a leather supplier; they should not be at the mercy of such a supplier, then pass the lower quality pieces to the customer. I deal with 7th and 8th graders (12-14 year olds) and they constantly use outside factors to explain their poor quality work (my pencil was broken, so-and-so was talking to me, I was absent so couldn't get the homework, etc.). I routinely have to remind them that they are responsible for completing quality work and it isn't the pencil's fault that it wasn't sharpened. It is very frustrating to hear such excuses from a company. 

This was just my experience and I don't expect anyone to base their purchases based on this. However, it is good to hear various points-of-view and be aware of any possible issues with customers.


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## maries (Dec 29, 2010)

Nice post Kuklachica!

I am thinking of ordering a Noreve and some people have had issues dealing with them so I am grateful to have this info to decide whether I want to take that risk.  Same with any other company.  I want to be an informed consumer and the good and bad experiences of others will be a factor in my decision whether to patronize a company.    Usually the most helpful info is how a company handles problems because sometimes things happen.  Some companies excel at service recovery.  We hear about most of the Kindle related accessory companies by word of mouth so sites like this are valuable sources of info.  Although I have spent quite a bit of money on Kindle related things due to all this great info.  

Thanks for sharing your experience!


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## OberonDesign.com (Nov 30, 2009)

I have seen some comments wondering why we have not responded to these posts.. be aware we read them all and see everything that comes in.

In the past when we have explained our position it seems to create more fuel sometimes.
The previous locked post has been an example of that.

But we have worked with this customer on this issue and issues in the past.
It has been our mission to make it right with every customer we have!. We want to know if there is a problem, we will cheerfully take care of it. However negative comments over the same things sadden us as we are trying to correct issues as best we can.
It also deters new customers who don't know us or our brand and we find that disheartening.

We are a smally family company who takes great pride in our work and we want to please you. But we are also human, all we can do is take care of you , the customer , as best we know how.

We would like to put it all to rest so above our company owner has written to all of you and we hope you take the time to read it. Thanks again to all of our loyal customers and if you have any questions don't hesitate to contact us.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,62119.0.html


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## kuklachica (Dec 26, 2010)

*
The response I received regarding the cover was posted here - I am confused how defending the flaws was correcting the issue?

How is sharing pictures of covers and email responses from Oberon deterring new customers? The covers were defended as within normal production expectations. If that is the case, shouldn't future customers know this is a possibility? Shouldn't Oberon be happy with these pictures and discussions?

Are we not free to post thoughts and concerns about a product and company responses? *

f voicing concerns over quality and sharing company responses is "vitriol" and "harsh" then all of us are guilty for expressing concerns with Noreve, Amazon, and any other company that has any review or thread here.

The definition of vitriol is "cruel and bitter criticism." I objectively showed my concerns, the company email, and asked for feedback on this thread regarding consistency. I thanked Oberon for the offer to refund the money, and voiced that I would choose not to order the cover again. I shared the Oberon's response. I don't know how I could have been less "cruel" or "bitter" than I was short of keeping my mouth shut.

If we are not free to post here about thoughts on companies, apparently this forum is looking out for companies and not customers.

I am shocked at this response. You can be sure that I will not be posting here in the future, and you will not have to be subjected to my "vitriol" in the future.


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## OberonDesign.com (Nov 30, 2009)

With all due respect you have posted and we have heard you. We appreciate the feedback and have offered several options. 

You should be able to post your comments and you have, we just wanted to defend what we feel is a good company that we are proud of. No one was singled out, no one was called by name, we have simply said the negative comments are not a reflection on who we are overall. It does not mean we don't make mistakes but we are willing to fix them. You were in no way mentioned. 

The letter was not to point fingers but to let new customers know we are here for them in anyway we are needed. We want people to know if there is a problem, we are going to make it right. Thankfully the issues are few, but they are hugely important to us. 

We felt we couldn't just stand by and allow what we have worked so hard for and for so long to be tarnished. We just wanted a chance to convey our take on the situation. Again we thank you for your business and if you have issues please, as always, contact us again. 

We are always happy to hear from our loyal customers, after all we couldn't do what we do without you.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I posted this in the Oberon Open Letter thread and am quoting it in part here:


Betsy the Quilter said:


> Stepping in here...
> 
> As has been evidenced time and time again in threads here on KindleBoards, members are welcome to post their opinions, positive and negative, about products whether advertised here or not. Kuklachica, no restrictions were made on your recent thread about your husband's cover and it is still open as I type. A previous thread was locked not because of the topic subject but because members were attacking each other's posts; it had ceased to be a discussion that served our membership.


I am not planning on locking this thread at this point, however, the same things are being posted in both the Oberon Design thread and this thread. I prefer not to have to moderate two threads, not to mention that we ask that people not cross post here. Please pick a thread, one or the other, to have this discussion in. If it continues in both, I'll lock this one.

Thanks.

Betsy
Accessories Moderator


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2011)

kuklachica said:


> *
> The response I received regarding the cover was posted here - I am confused how defending the flaws was correcting the issue?
> *


*

They did try and make things right. They offered you a full refund for both covers. You REFUSED. What else are they supposed to do?*


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## Feylamia (Mar 21, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I am not planning on locking this thread at this point, however, the same things are being posted in both the Oberon Design thread and this thread. I prefer not to have to moderate two threads, not to mention that we ask that people not cross post here. Please pick a thread, one or the other, to have this discussion in. If it continues in both, I'll lock this one.


Does that mean you'll lock the Oberon picture thread just because there's a new "happy oberon customers" thread now? I think that would be a shame and I really don't mind the couple of posts about bad experiences with Oberon's customer service in the picture thread.  As a newbie on these boards I found it annoying enough to see hat many issues were discussed across several threads. It took quite a bit of work to actually read back on all the Oberon stuff. (Yes, I actually did that, including the complete picture thread. I try to get all the information I can about a product I'm going to order from overseas.  Exchanging products is such a hassle with customs and all.)



NYCKindleFan said:


> They did try and make things right. They offered you a full refund for both covers. You REFUSED. What else are they supposed to do?


I think Holly's suggested approach would probably have worked best:


Holly said:


> A better resolution would have been to send a third that had personally passed the inspection of the head and actually fitted with a kindle to test the straps. In a "small family business", this shouldn't be hard to accomplish. An extra token along with a personal letter of apology for your trouble goes a long way too!


Sending out a third cover without any flaws would have been the smoothest solution, I think. Or even offering a discount on the next purchase. Anything that would have made Kuklachica felt like a valued customer instead of the one to blame (for not reading the color disclaimer).


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Feylamia said:


> Does that mean you'll lock the Oberon picture thread just because there's a new "happy oberon customers" thread now?


Hardly the same situation, but our policy is to merge similar threads. The two threads you mention, however, are not similar.


> As a newbie on these boards I found it annoying enough to see hat many issues were discussed across several threads. It took quite a bit of work to actually read back on all the Oberon stuff.


Which is why we DO merge threads when warranted and why we ask sponsors to have an official thread to look at.

Folks,

the last time I had to lock a thread on Accessories it was because people started picking apart each others posts. I see that is starting to happen here. Everyone has stated their positions, let's move on.

Betsy
Accessories Moderator


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## Feylamia (Mar 21, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Hardly the same situation, but our policy is to merge similar threads.


That's why I'm asking. 



Betsy the Quilter said:


> The two threads you mention, however, are not similar.


But most of the posts in the Oberon Picture thread are from happy customers who want to share their new "babies"? Ah well, one more Oberon thread to check out for info and pictures won't kill me. I just see the potential for people posting essentially the same thing in both threads, that's all. 



Betsy the Quilter said:


> the last time I had to lock a thread on Accessories it was because people started picking apart each others posts. I see that is starting to happen here. Everyone has stated their positions, let's move on.


But isn't that what a discussion would ideally be about? People answering in detail to questions that were posed? It would be kind of boring if everyone just stated their opinion once and then stopped posting about it. Answering on these boards isn't about being right or wrong, it's about people communicating in order to understand the other's viewpoint better. Or so I think, anyway.


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## MamaProfCrash (Dec 16, 2008)

NYCKindleFan said:


> They did try and make things right. They offered you a full refund for both covers. You REFUSED. What else are they supposed to do?


After telling her that the cover was just fine and that it was in acceptable ranges for tanned leather and pointing her to their disclaimer. I would guess that a "Sorry, that hide should not have been used. Our bad. Here are your options for how we can fix it" would have gone over much better.


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## L0tech (Apr 14, 2011)

Bonbonlover said:


> I am not so big on jury rigging a fix on a $70 cover. These guys gotta get their act together.


I received a cover two days ago that exceeded my expectations. I DID post about it, but let's face it, I'm probably the exception. People by nature rarely take the time to give credit when they get what they believe they paid for, but people who question that or are unhappy are quick to shout it out to the world.

I'd be willing to bet that for every dissatisfied customer, there are 25-50 satisfied ones. No offence intended bonbon, I picked your post almost at random.


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## Bonbonlover (Oct 17, 2010)

That is a Straw-Horse argument. Just because there are 25-50-75-100 satisfied customers does not mean it is okay for 1 customer to have to come up with a design to make his cover fit. Just because 50 covers were made to perfection doesn't mean that one could not have gone out with a defective strap... That customer shouldn't have to try to figure something out simply because many others were happy.


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## L0tech (Apr 14, 2011)

Bonbonlover said:


> That is a Straw-Horse argument. Just because there are 25-50-75-100 satisfied customers does not mean it is okay for 1 customer to have to come up with a design to make his cover fit. Just because 50 covers were made to perfection doesn't mean that one could not have gone out with a defective strap... That customer shouldn't have to try to figure something out simply because many others were happy.


Agreed, excepting the "straw-horse" argument. There is nothing preventing the customer from complaining to the manufacturer about defects, and little to suggest said manufacturer would not make amends. If people want perfect mirror copies of a product every time, they should probably stay away from "hand-made" goods. Guess my point is, I've been here only a few days, and seen quite a few complaints about consistency and quality control. I have yet to see a complaint about a quality claim being denied by Oberon, however.

Sometimes people complain just to hear themselves complaining, not really wanting the problem resolved.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, 

I've heard from the OP in this thread, as stated in the thread and elsewhere, she's come to a resolution, thanks everyone for the advice in the thread and wants to move on.  I think the topic has been beaten to death.  I'm going to lock the thread so we can all move on.

Hasn't anyone bought any NEW accessories lately?  

Betsy


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