# eBook Jerks



## TiffanyMonroe (Jul 7, 2012)

Apparently, there are people who buy ebooks, then return them within the 7 day window so they don't actually have to pay. What do you guys think of this?


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that the very vast majority of our membership do not condone this practice, nor do I think the majority of Kindle owners do this.  That being said, I am in favor of Amazon's policy.

Betsy


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I think the return policy is good for accidental buys or if the book is very badly formatted.    Is there some reason you think accidental buys should not be returned?
Some people do not know about the sample feature and even then some books are perfect through the sample but have problems later on.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

TiffanyMonroe said:


> Apparently, there are people who buy ebooks, then return them within the 7 day window so they don't actually have to pay. What do you guys think of this?


Well that is the policy. And I like it. There are many reasons why people might return. I have done so myself in the past. 
Its a customer friendly policy.

And I don't think the anecdotal abusers of the policy are widespread. I think there are in the big picture very few that abuse. And I firmly believe Amazon deals with them as they see fit.

So what do I think of it? Nothing much. I use it when I need it and I am glad to know the policy is there when I do need it. Other retailers are not as customer friendly.

eta: to add that I don't think returning a book makes me or anyone else a jerk.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

I've used the return policy for accidental purchases--I *hate* that all Kindle book purchases are one-click. But even that isn't a common thing. While there are going to be people who abuse the process, I think the majority of folks don't even realize you can return a book (Amazon doesn't make it at all obvious how to do so), and probably have never even tried it.

One thing to consider is that paper books can be returned as well. Why should ebooks be any different?


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I've used this feature fewer than 10 times since the policy first went into effect.  I personally find it useful when I get something that doesn't turn out to be what I expected or the quality just wasn't there.  As mentioned, I find in keeping with their customer-centric policies and it's useful to have when I need it.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Amazon has a generous return policy on pretty much everything they sell. Heck, it's 30 days on kindle devices. I think 7 days is reasonable for ebooks. I've returned stuff a handful of times. Sure, there are people who will abuse the policy, but, as Atunah suggests, even though we don't have a clue about how many such there are, Amazon likely does and deals with them appropriately.

I'll also note -- as I have before -- that I'm not really sure that most people are completely aware of the policy. I think a lot of folks are used to iTunes and Google where you get something and it's yours even if it was a mistake or doesn't function. I know I've personally told a couple of people about the policy when they were commenting that they'd accidentally bought the wrong book -- right title, wrong author or something of the sort. Hence my conclusion that the VAST majority of customers don't even use it, may not even know about it, and the very few who do know and _abuse_ it are dealt with.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Since it's not in Amazon's interest to give e-books away for free, I'm pretty sure some of their developers came up with a way to detect potential abuse and either alert a customer manager or take some automated action. (I can easily imagine a simple algorithm to compare number of returns versus number of purchases, probably with some threshold number of returns, in order to implement such an alert system.)

Are there some people who will try to game the system? Sure, just like there will always be people who will try to find ways to download pirated software, movies, music, and e-books.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2013/08/01/kindle-owners-beware-amazon-is-now-closing-accounts-of-bad-customers-in-germany/#.UseDPn-9KSM

There have been periodic media flurries about Amazon closing the accounts of bad actors who abused the return policy. Depending on who you believe they either did or did not continue to have access to previously purchased items. I think this is a fine thing, people who abuse the system and to the costs of the rest of us. Amazon's return policy is very generous to the consumer, I myself have taken advantage of it, and I would rather have them continue this generous policy.they could not do that if they allowed it to be abused.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

TiffanyMonroe said:


> Apparently, there are people who buy ebooks, then return them within the 7 day window so they don't actually have to pay. What do you guys think of this?


Having some experience with the history as an author and reader, I have a few different perspectives. 1. Amazon does clamp down on abuse. It takes a while, but they actually do watch for people who chronically return books. There was recently a blog post up by a lady who complained that her return privileges had been revoked. She calculated ON HER OWN and claimed ==I only returned 40 percent of the books the first few months I owned it and 60 percent of them during the next x period. == Not an exact quote. She was complaining that she received no warning or no "upper limit." She fully admitted she was reading the books and deciding whether she wanted to keep them or not. She said she took their policy as "7 days, any reason" meant "Don't have to have one other than I decided."

2. Amazon has the policy for formatting issues, quality issues and accidental purchases. There are selections when you return that allow you to state why you are returning. If a person clicks formatting or... I think it's quality, the author is informed. If there are enough complaints, Amazon actually pulls the book and asks the author to fix it.

3. There have been a few cases where an indie book became popular...and was found to have returns numerous times for formatting/quality...and it turned out there was no actual problem. This is going to call Amazon's attention to the accounts doing the returning/report of problems and they will LIKELY be watched for abusive returns.

What is abusive? Amazon gets to decide. And they don't tell anyone because of course if some people new the "upper limit" they'd stay below that.

4. My own perspective as a reader is: I have hit that dang "one click" on two occasions and "accidentally" purchased books. VERY quickly, without bothering to even turn on the kindle, I returned and selected "accidental." On two other occasions, I have done returns for other reasons.

I like the policy, but of course, it is ripe for abuse. Amazon does track and look for that abuse. They apparently withdrawn the ability for some people to do returns once they reach some sort of limit.

It is my understanding from following other complaints that if the returns are across product lines (products that have actually shipped to a person) as well as ebooks, they will in some cases actually lock purchases--ie no longer want the business AT ALL and will refuse to sell to some accounts--any item. There was a guy on another forum who complained because he bought 3 TVs fully knowing he would be sending two back. He wanted to see which he liked better. He apparently had a habit of this type of buying because his account was locked and he was not invited back...

I think it's nice Amazon tries to balance between allowing returns and not allowing abuse.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

cinisajoy said:


> I think the return policy is good for accidental buys or if the book is very badly formatted. Is there some reason you think accidental buys should not be returned?
> Some people do not know about the sample feature and even then some books are perfect through the sample but have problems later on.


I don't think Tiffany is talking about accidental purchases; I was under the impression that she was talking about people who read books and then return them so they don't have to pay for the book. At any rate, that's what I responded to. 

Betsy


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I don't think Tiffany is talking about accidental purchases; I was under the impression that she was talking about people who read books and then return them so they don't have to pay for the book. At any rate, that's what I responded to.
> 
> Betsy


Pretty sure that is what she meant--there's been a rash of discussion around the internets on this topic lately with some people on either side 'Any reason means I can return as many as I like, read or not" and some posters letting others know that they have been banned, etc. As with other policies, it doesn't sound like Amazon takes exactly the same action each time either. There have been some claims that only a few returns resulted in banning and so on. Of course, one person's "few" is not necessarily the same as another person's "few."


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah, I expect that, though not stated, Amazon thinks of the 7 day period as time to look at it, check for issues, or maybe realize you already read it, or maybe it was purchased by accident by a kid -- which is the way I think all of us here think of it.  And NOT -- you get to buy it and if you can read it in 7 days you can send it back no harm no foul.  It does boggle my mind a little bit that there are people who actually think that's o.k.     

BUT, I'm sure they also figured out pretty early on that there are such folks and they take care of them as they choose.

Frankly, it's a minor miracle if I get to a book within 7 days of purchase in the first place, much less have it read in that time.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

I've never used the return option, though I've been tempted sometimes by the quality (or lack of) in what I've downloaded.

No doubt there are people out there who will see the return policy as an opportunity to read books for nothing, but I imagine they will be very much in the minority. I don't think authors should worry themselves unduly - people who would try to unfairly take advantage of the policy are also likely to be the types who will download free books from pirate sites and they seem to be springing up all the time. So there will always be opportunities for such folk to gain something for nothing and limiting the current policy in some way will penalise the vast majority of Amazon users who only return purchases for good reason.


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## GatorDeb (Jan 2, 2014)

I wasn't aware of the policy I thought it was just intantenous for erroneous purchases   I would have it once so far, I bought a book that was VERY badly marketed (Ultimate training manual, but then it was just A-Z i.e. can't remember verbatim but something like D is for Dream dream big, R is for Rest, you need rest when training, etc.).


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

I think the return policy is a good one as some people buy a book accidentally by hitting the buy button before making a decision, or they buy a book that has a similar title to one that they really want. I think that accounts for most returns of books by a single author: they have a title that is the same or similar to another book that is popular or a reader has heard about by word of mouth and they buy the wrong book by mistake. 

I personally know of 2 authors who released books with titles nearly identical to a couple of mine within a few months or even a year after mine were released. I have not had any returns on those books as they already had a following for them that continues to build, and I am certain they chose the titles for their books innocently as one of them is in a different genre from mine. The other is in the same genre and her latest book is part of a series but she chose a title for the latest book that is identical to the title of my series. My books headline the title of the series with each book named individually below the series title, and hers headline the book title with the series title in parentheses. Confused yet? If you are then you can bet the reader is too! That may account for heavy returns on some titles.


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

I can only speak from my own experience. I'm pretty certain that there are some cheapskates in the UK who abuse this policy, but I've _never_ had the same problem with readers in the States.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Personally I think three days would be plenty to decide you accidentally purchased. The problem is there are people who think Amazon is saying you can return it for any reason within 7 days, including "I finished the book"

I'm not an author so I don't have a bone in there, but I know I finish most books within 7 days. I have returned two books in the past due to accidental clicks on the original Kindle (it was easy to do) but the return was within 2 minutes of purchasing


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## LaraAmber (Feb 24, 2009)

I also would be okay if they narrowed the window to 3 days, especially since you get emails when books are purchased.  I also wouldn't be upset if they could look at the device that downloaded it and see how far you got before you hit return.  If you're at 30% fine, you're at 99%, yeah you finished the book, nice try.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2014)

I used to have that problem but then I just unpublished my 22 books - now I don't have that problem.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Reducing the grace period from 7 to 3 days probably wouldn't change anything.  It's perfectly easy to get the book and back it up on a computer and then 'return' it.  Doesn't take 5 minutes if you're so inclined. Then you can side load it on to a kindle with wifi off and take as long as you like to read it. So 3 days vs 7 days is moot. People who REALLY want to not pay for the book will figure out how.  

And the reduction in time might annoy some legitimate customers. Is it a big difference? No. Do most people even notice? Probably not.  But those who know it's 7 days might feel somewhat disenfranchised if it's dropped to 3.  Even if they never really took advantage of it. And why should I be potentially penalized because of people who don't mind being thieves?

So I don't see value in changing it.  Besides, as has been noted, Amazon is like the world champion at consumer data gathering -- I'm dead sure they deal with 'serial returners' or whatever you want to call these cheaters.  Not that they publicize how or when.  Why should they?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh no, Greg unpublished, how am I supposed to read his books now?  How can he do that to his readers?  That is so mean.  He is punishing me because someone else was a twit.


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## lmroth12 (Nov 15, 2012)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Reducing the grace period from 7 to 3 days probably wouldn't change anything...And the reduction in time might annoy some legitimate customers. Is it a big difference? No. Do most people even notice? Probably not. But those who know it's 7 days might feel somewhat disenfranchised if it's dropped to 3. Even if they never really took advantage of it. And why should I be potentially penalized because of people who don't mind being thieves?


Totally agree. I frequently will buy books when I have time to _browse_ for them, not necessarily when I have time to actually _read_ them. So a person who has some time on Saturday morning to check out books may not have time that day or even that weekend to start reading what they purchased if, like many people, they spend the rest of the weekend juggling shopping, family outings, cleaning house, etc. And if they have kids in sports they usually spend the rest of Saturday running them around to various events. It could be Tuesday or Wednesday evening before someone even has a chance to begin reading the book they bought on Saturday. Having said that, I am all for keeping the grace period at 7 days.


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## glc3 (Jun 24, 2009)

I don't think many people abuse the return system.

For that to be so we would have to assume that customers immediately read the books that they purchase. I think many don't do that unless it was a book they really wanted to read in the first place.

As a kindle owner I have at least 10 books on my kindle that I have brought in the past few months that I have simply not gotten to yet and I believe many kindle owners have similar amounts of books that they don't get to right away. Many simply can't rteurn a book they don't like because by the time they get to it the 7 day period has long lapsed.

Just my opinion.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

glc3 said:


> I don't think many people abuse the return system.
> 
> For that to be so we would have to assume that customers immediately read the books that they purchase. I think many don't do that unless it was a book they really wanted to read in the first place.
> 
> ...


I think this is the case, too. Heck even when I pre-order books that I _know_ I want to to read, I still often don't get to them right away! I'm usually in the middle of something else. 

The ones who do 'read and return' _plan for it_. They aren't just 'fast readers', or folks who only buy a book when they know they'll be able to read it; they're people who want to read the book but don't want to pay for it and they've figured out how to abuse the system to do that. The only way to stop their behavior altogether is to have ZERO grace period. Or, maybe, require a phone call to do the return. Serial returners probably wouldn't want to do that as it would require actually lying in fact, rather than by omission, but it would also inconvenience legitimate customers. (In fact, in the early days, that's what you DID have to do -- call or send an email to request a return/refund. The automated way is much more convenient; and probably less work, really, for them, even considering the potential for abuse.)


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

Ann in Arlington said:


> only way to stop their behavior altogether is to have ZERO grace period. Or, maybe, require a phone call to do the return. Serial returners probably wouldn't want to do that as it would require actually lying in fact, rather than by omission, but it would also inconvenience legitimate customers. (In fact, in the early days, that's what you DID have to do -- call or send an email to request a return/refund. The automated way is much more convenient; and probably less work, really, for them, even considering the potential for abuse.)


This is not a bad idea, although it _is_ a little tough on legitimate customers. In my experience, this kind of abuse is not a big enough problem to warrant starting getting heavy with everyone.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I think it's a VERY BAD idea!  I mentioned it as the extreme of where I would NOT want the policy to go!


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

The grace period is a wonderful idea, and I hadn't used it until recently. There were some print books I wished I returned because they were so sucky, but that's life.

Last year, I returned 1 non fiction book because it wasn't what it was cracked up to be, even with sampling; it was more of a book-length (and not even a very long one at that) infomercial for the guy's web services or something. I found other books that imparted much better info much better than that book, so I returned it.

Another non fic book I returned because it was a reference for a specific piece of software - I ended up sending back the program for a refund because it wouldn't work on my laptop no matter what I did. So I returned the ebook. But I then went and bought the same software, only it was one version back, and then picked up the reference book for one version back, AFTER I made sure the darned software worked on my machine. 

The third non fic book (notice a pattern? ) I returned because I accidentally clicked on it (stupid fingers! ).

I've never returned any fiction ebooks, though. Don't know why that is.

I do agree that people who are serial returners should have to go elsewhere to buy ebooks. I feel the grace period is not to be abused like that one woman who over the period of several months (or was it a year?) returned a hundred ebooks or something. That's why I have such a huge Wish List on Amazon - I don't always have the time to sample, I don't want to buy prematurely, so I put ebooks in my lists to look at when I have the time to sample.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I think this is the case, too. Heck even when I pre-order books that I _know_ I want to to read, I still often don't get to them right away! I'm usually in the middle of something else.
> 
> The ones who do 'read and return' _plan for it_. They aren't just 'fast readers', or folks who only buy a book when they know they'll be able to read it; they're people who want to read the book but don't want to pay for it and they've figured out how to abuse the system to do that. The only way to stop their behavior altogether is to have ZERO grace period. Or, maybe, require a phone call to do the return. Serial returners probably wouldn't want to do that as it would require actually lying in fact, rather than by omission, but it would also inconvenience legitimate customers. (In fact, in the early days, that's what you DID have to do -- call or send an email to request a return/refund. The automated way is much more convenient; and probably less work, really, for them, even considering the potential for abuse.)


The return period isn't really the issue and that isn't how the problem is ... solved? by Amazon from what some have reported. It's not WHEN a person returns, it's HOW MANY books by a percentage. It may also have to do with How many over a given period of time. Meaning, during a particular year a person might trigger "worth watching" because they have returned 10 percent of what they bought. The person does not have to read the book right away. They could easily copy that book, strip DRM and read whenever they want. That's why the return period of 7 days isn't really the issue. It's whether or not a person habitually returns books they read, intend to read, etc.

From what I understand, there are algorithms watching for abusive behavior. Amazon gets to define abusive. So just because returns happen within the 7 day period does not mean it Will or WON'T Trigger a watchdog. A person could be returning 60 percent of the books in 1 hour. They are still likely to have their account flagged for watching. They are still likely to have return privileges revoked at some point or their account blocked/closed. 
It's a matter of the pattern being picked up by the algorithms which are also constantly being tweaked.

The issue of returns is something Amazon has worked on for a long time because they sell a lot of other products. They have a very generous return policy, but that should not be confused with "use and return any old time you want."

For authors, I think these return problems go in batches. Someone on a forum somewhere will say, "I've been doing this and it's never been a problem. They say 7 days any reason so it's fine. Try it. You'll see." And then a whole bunch of people try it. And then someone gets flagged/can no longer do returns and reports it to the others... and this pattern repeats.

I have been on forums where someone asks the question about "How many can I return before it's a problem" or suggested that, "I've been doing it for X and it hasn't been a problem." In every case, moderators have stepped in recommending that they not advocate abusive behavior that is detrimental to authors/readers/customers/companies. And others point them to posts where individuals have been 'caught' and lost their account and/or privileges.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah . . . I think we're really in agreement.  Someone suggested reducing the grace period from 7 to 3 days and I was trying to articulate why that wouldn't work: determined folks only need a few minutes to d/l a book to their computer and 'return it'. And yes -- Amazon watches it and does something when they decide to . . . . and don't tell any of the rest of us exactly what that is. Which is completely understandable. 

The only 'information' we have are people who have self-confessed to being serial returners who feel the need to write about how horrible Amazon is for trying to protect its brand, and its authors, and still serve its legitimate customers by restricting the miscreant's account. And of course they only ever give _their_ side of the story and probably leave out 'unimportant' facts if they don't serve to support their theory.  'Course, from my point of view, they have no credibility as soon as they admit to doing it just because they can.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Yeah . . . I think we're really in agreement.  Someone suggested reducing the grace period from 7 to 3 days and I was trying to articulate why that wouldn't work: determined folks only need a few minutes to d/l a book to their computer and 'return it'. And yes -- Amazon watches it and does something when they decide to . . . . and don't tell any of the rest of us exactly what that is. Which is completely understandable.
> 
> The only 'information' we have are people who have self-confessed to being serial returners who feel the need to write about how horrible Amazon is for trying to protect its brand, and its authors, and still serve its legitimate customers by restricting the miscreant's account. And of course they only ever give _their_ side of the story and probably leave out 'unimportant' facts if they don't serve to support their theory.  'Course, from my point of view, they have no credibility as soon as they admit to doing it just because they can.


Agreed on all counts!


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

I had pretty much the same reaction as Tiffany did.

I know I can expect a few returns. Accidental purchases as noted above certainly rings true. But I noted early on that I was having a large number of such returns. The editing and formatting were good. The reviews were excellent by everyone. It didn't make sense that I was getting so many returns.

I've had quite a few comments that people couldn't put it down and ended up reading the whole thing overnight. THAT's certainly a good thing—well, for me anyway. But it did suggest that a quick reader could easily finish reading my book in just a couple of days.

I'm not a fool believing that everyone is going to love my story. That's why they offer samples, so a reader can decide if they'll like the story or not. Personally, I don't think the samples go deep enough into a story; I put the first seven chapters of my book on my website for a free download so people who were on the fence could read that far into the book before deciding to purchase it.

Overall, returns have stopped. I haven't seen any returns since October. Now, I simply categorize returns as business losses and don't dwell on it. I've sold significantly more books than I have had returns. 

There is one solution that we as writers can employ to stop returns: just make your book so long, there is no way the creeps could finish reading it in time to return it!!!


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

WDR said:


> I had pretty much the same reaction as Tiffany did.
> 
> There is one solution that we as writers can employ to stop returns: just make your book so long, there is no way the creeps could finish reading it in time to return it!!!


Now _that's_ a great idea! LoL!


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I very much doubt that those folks that do a lot of returns actually read the books within the return time. The keep them to read them whenever they feel like it. The ways to do that take seconds basically. 

But since I believe those folks are a very very small minority, the rest of us shouldn't be punished.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Agree with Atunah . .. . and, by the way, remember we're in the book CORNER. . . . so we're READERS discussing the issue here, not writers.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Agree with Atunah . .. . and, by the way, remember we're in the book CORNER. . . . so we're READERS discussing the issue here, not writers.


All the more educational to hear how it affects the poor, distressed writers. [quietly sobs in the corner&#8230;]


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

We can go to the Writers' Café to learn that; it's frequently discussed there... 

Betsy


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Sure there are a few people who abuse the system. As an author, I've seen it on occasion as books in my trilogy are returned in an obvious pattern. That said, it is not enough to be an issue. My returns are well under 1% so I'm not going to worry about it much. (Sorry to speak as an author, but we do see this from kind of the inside.) All retailers occasionally experience that kind of thing such as someone returning a garment that has been worn. I consider it a cost of doing business and well worth it. But let me emphasize that I believe fraudulent returns are the exception. I have no doubt that most are for perfectly legitimate reasons and I absolutely agree with Amazon's return policy.

ETA: Ok, Betsy, speaking as a reader (and I'd match my number of ebooks bought and read against pretty much anyone) I've never returned one, even when I might have had cause. In my opinion, this is a lot more common.


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

Atunah said:


> But since I believe those folks are a very very small minority, the rest of us shouldn't be punished.


Very much this.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

I'm curious to know if there's been a study regarding the rate of returns v. length of the books. Are shorter titles more at-risk of being returned? Logic would seem to say they are, but I wonder what the data say.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

That's the sort of question to ask in the Cafe. Though, even then, the data wouldn't necessarily be statistically representative, more like anecdotal. Rates are frequently discussed in the Cafe -- most folks figure 1% to 3% is about average -- if they notice a bunch in one sitting where there seems to be a pattern, they'll alert Amazon and let them look at it.

Also, it comes and goes, which is why I think Amazon _does_ respond to these things. . . . an author will report, in the Cafe, a lot of returns all at once. And then it stops shortly after they've reported it.

I would be actually surprised to find there's any real correlation. My impression is that the behavior we're discussing here is by folks who aren't interested in paying, period. Whether it's long or short, my guess is they buy the book, remove the DRM (against ToS), and then return it. (Or only bother with books that already don't have DRM so they can skip that step.) And then read it at their leisure. Maybe if it's short they can read it before the week is up, but they probably have just as long TBR lists as all of us . . . . they just acquire the books less honestly.

I do NOT think most of these people pirate the books -- in the sense of uploading them to any sort of pirate site. They just want to read a lot but don't want to pay for it. They may share among like minded friends.


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## Hans Cummings (May 16, 2011)

As an author/publisher, I hate it. Nothing is more disheartening than seeing a number in the "Books Returned" column when I check my sales numbers.

As a consumer, I'm perfectly OK with it. I know it's easy to accidentally click that button to buy a book. If I have my hand resting on my mouse, it only takes a twitch of my finger to click something. Sometimes the quality is bad (no editing, poor formatting, conversion errors). There are tons of reasons to return an ebook that having nothing to do with gaming the system.


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## Key (Jan 6, 2014)

I've never returned a book I completely read.  I've always assumed Amazon wouldn't allow it.    I do however return books when I've read more than the sample but end up not liking it and wishing I hadn't spend the money.  Or sometimes if I've preordered something that sounded great and didn't like it after all.

And if I don't do it within seven days I know I have to just eat it, even if I hate the book or never finish it.  So, I'm glad they allow returns.  I'm surprised people return books they've completely read, though.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

The scam practice I wouldn't condone, but I think the return policy a good one and one which distiguishes Amazon from its competition. I don't believe the practice is widespread. I've had about 50 returns in my reports out of 40,000 books. I believe they were all legitimate returns.

Edward C. Patterson


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## redacted (Dec 16, 2013)

I didn't even know you could return books for months and months after I got my Kindle, because I'm still banging my head against the wall for not returning R. Scott Bakker's third "Prince of Nothing" eBook, which I bought for like $11 bucks or something ridiculous like that. I only got through the first 50 pages and just gave up.


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

Atunah said:


> But since I believe those folks are a very very small minority, the rest of us shouldn't be punished.


I've been giving this some thought, and here are the conclusions:

1/ It's a very small problem in the first place. I've had very little trouble with it, with the possible exception of one of two idiots in the UK.

2/ When you publish a print book, it goes to booksellers on a 'sale or return' basis, which means the actual _retailer _can send it back, unpaid for. Not much different -- ebooks just cut out the middle man.

3/ I value my readers very much, and don't want the majority of good ones punished on account of a few cheapskates. Keep the system as it is.


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## Andre Jute (Dec 18, 2010)

I've never returned a book to Amazon or anyone else. But as a writer I'm glad of that safety net. I'd rather a disappointed reader got his money back than that he harbor resentment against me. The few bucks are irrelevant.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Andre Jute said:


> I've never returned a book to Amazon or anyone else. But as a writer I'm glad of that safety net. I'd rather a disappointed reader got his money back than that he harbor resentment against me. The few bucks are irrelevant.


^ This. I've never returned a book either... And I currently have 1600 ebooks on my media page. Some sucked, but hey... I took that chance. I think it's karma for me though, because I've never had a return of my own book (although to be honest, I've barely broke triple digits in sales so far).

I agree, I'd rather a customer have the option to just return it, than to be even more upset and leave a bad or worse review because they couldn't return it and felt ripped off.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

I have no issues with people returning ebooks for valid reasons: the writing/editing/typography sucked, the ebook didn't render correctly, or the reader found they just couldn't stand the story. Those are all absolutely valid reasons for returning a book. When you pay for _any_ product, you should expect that item to function to your expectations. If it doesn't then you should get your money back.

But there are a handful of people who will take advantage of that. They find it amusing to play the game where they use something and then demand their money back because they were "dissatisfied" with it; who laugh because they are getting away with something. They are the ones who irk me. I am happy to say, people like this are truly small in number, as well as in personality.

The significant majority of people do not do things like this. It's for these people that I will always call for a sizable sample to be offered from any book so they can truly get a good feel for whether or not the story is worth their money.


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