# How to Be Hooky



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Domino Finn's recent excellent post on "engineering a bestseller" inspired me to think some more about "hookiness," and how I've been paying more conscious effort to it recently. I've written down a few thoughts about it, probably because I'm waiting out the hours until a new release.

When I look at the books I really enjoy, that I burn through, they're pulling me in and pulling me on. So--how do you grab a reader? How do you KEEP the reader? How do you entertain a reader enough that she will go on to read the next book? How do you (I) consciously do those things better?

Fair warning: like all my advice, this is pretty basic. That's the level I'm comfortable discussing.

Last summer, I was writing a book (FIERCE: http://amzn.to/1HdeBKt) that was quite different for me. KU2 had also just begun--meaning you wanted, more than ever, to have people finish the book. So I wrote that book thinking hard with every chapter about pulling the reader along. About making them want to turn the page. Here were some things I thought about:

*Start strong.* Chapter One really matters! Even though not all my books have lots of "action," I start most of the New Zealand ones, especially, with a more gripping scene. Since the book is called, "Escape to New Zealand," it's usually what the person is escaping from. Something pretty important should be happening in Chapter One. The reader has to be engaged from Page One.

Here's the first line of FIERCE:
_
Have you ever noticed how, when you're around certain people, you seem to grow an extra thumb, and not in a good way?_

My first book ever, JUST THIS ONCE (Escape to New Zealand), starts out, 
_Wow. Welcome to New Zealand._

And then the heroine almost dies. I honestly think that first chapter is what made my career. You want to say, "BOOM. Here is the book."

*Last lines of chapters.* Every chapter is a cliffhanger, even if it doesn't end with action or whatever. There need to be questions asked to which the reader wants an answer. In the case of FIERCE, it was mostly, "What will Hemi (or Hope) do NOW?" I realized that I always spend a lot of time on the endings of my chapters, trying to pull the reader along in the story.

Here are some last lines of chapters from FIERCE:

_So, yes, you could say I was at a low point that day I met Hemi Te Mana. But it wasn't as low as I'd go.

Nobody should be treating her like that. Nobody should be doing anything to her. Nobody but me.

"Be ready," he said softly. And he left. 
_

I pay attention to this on the paragraph level as well. If there's a new thought, a leap, that happens at the beginning of the next paragraph. If there's something the hero or heroine is going to find out, I don't telegraph it.

*Story arc.* This seems simple, but you really have to be building to something. It does NOT always have to be conflict. One of my best-reviewed books, JUST FOR FUN, has almost no conflict in the whole second half between the hero and heroine, but it has plenty of drama. When I first wrote it, though, it didn't have enough of a climax/resolution. My best friend said, "Something else has to happen." I called another friend and wailed, "But the whole POINT is that she trusts him! She isn't going to do one of those 'misunderstanding-run-off-things!'" She suggested something with their son that she'd wondered about--whether he wouldn't react strongly to the thing that had happened. BOOM. In another hour, I'd written three chapters of nail-biting tension, then resolution and weepfest, that totally worked and drove the story to the finish line.

*Take out the boring stuff.* If nothing really important is happening in the scene, it probably doesn't need to be in the book. If there are lines or emotions or information that are necessary, maybe they can go at the beginning of the next chapter or something. [Of course, people who don't like your book will always say it is "boring." My most common negative review is "slow and boring." (Well, that and "too much sex.") But lots of times, you can spot your boring passages/chapters and remove them.]

*End strong. *The ending sells the next book. Think back to some books with "blah" endings. Even if the rest of the book is good, it doesn't make you want to buy the next book. For me: I want readers to cry! In romance, you want a happy sigh at the end, that lingering feel-good hum that makes the world look a little brighter. For a thriller, you want a nice solid recap that reminds you that Good won. Whatever it is for your genre.

*What are your own best tips about hooky writing?*


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## suliabryon (May 18, 2009)

Rosalind, I wish we had like buttons on this forum, and I could click about 500 times for this post. Yes, yes, and yes to all of it! When I realized that beginnings were my weakest point, I sat down and took out a dozen of my favorite novels ever and examined how each of them started. I wrote notes. I practiced rewriting the opening paragraphs of my then-WIP using some of the same techniques these other authors employed. I think beginnings are no longer my weakest point, but I do still struggle with them.

Chapter endings, on the other hand. I developed what I call "the mini-cliffhanger" organically. One of my beta readers was the first to point it out because she reads my work as I write it, a chapter at a time. She now calls me the Queen of Cliffhangers, even though they are like you say - they ask a question the reader wants to be answered. Not necessarily in the form of a question, but it has to put one in the reader's mind and make them want to turn the page. 

You also make excellent, excellent points with your story arc and taking out the boring stuff sections. Last week, I was critiquing an honestly excellent draft novel for a writer-friend in our writer's group. It's his best work to date, but at one point in the book, we spent a whole chapter of exposition moving the MC from one place to another and preparing for something that was leading into the climax of the book. That chapter of exposition, instead of building the tension, removed it all. I told my friend "It was the only time in the entire draft when I found myself thinking of something other than the story while I was reading. I thought - man, this is a lot of exposition! Boring." He has since boiled that down to two paragraphs, and it works much, much better. 

Honestly, like chapter endings, book endings have long been a strength of mine. It's ironic, really, because they sort of need to do the same thing a beginning does - hook the reader for the next book (at least for series writing). But they do something else, they give the reader some kind of satisfying closure for this book as well. You want the reader both satisfied, and anxious to turn the page and read more. It's a hard balance, but one I somehow find easier than the hooky beginning, for reasons that utterly escape me!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Haha, yeah. In the book that comes out tomorrow, I wrote this whole thing showing what the hero's house/neighborhood was like, where the beach was, how you got to the grocery store, etc. Editing the book, I thought, "Gah. Rosalind. Who CARES?" I could show the reader how you got to the beach when the bad guy was chasing the heroine there. A little more interesting in that context!


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

I soooo agree with everything you have said. The first chapter of my first book is _boring_! It doesn't hook. I've rewritten it about a thousand times and I just can't get it to be more hooky. I dread to think how many readers I lose with it, but at some point you have to just give up and move on. sigh...


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Evenstar said:


> I soooo agree with everything you have said. The first chapter of my first book is _boring_! It doesn't hook. I've rewritten it about a thousand times and I just can't get it to be more hooky. I dread to think how many readers I lose with it, but at some point you have to just give up and move on. sigh...


Ha, well, it astonishes me that anyone's gone on to read past Book 1 of my own stuff. Let's just say that I hope I've learned something since . . . But that's why I wrote this post, elementary as I'm sure it appears to the more seasoned folks out there. Because there must be other writers like I was!


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

I totally agree with everything you said, Rosalind! And you said it so well . . . 

I'd add that one thing that keeps me reading is *the story people on stage talking to one another*. Really, really, really good dialogue keeps me turning the pages. If there are long stretches of narrative without character interaction, I tend to drift away.

Congrats on the new book coming--that is always an awesome feeling.


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## Genre Hoarder (Oct 4, 2014)

As always, excellent advice. Thank You!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

EC Sheedy said:


> I totally agree with everything you said, Rosalind! And you said it so well . . .
> 
> I'd add that one thing that keeps me reading is *the story people on stage talking to one another*. Really, really, really good dialogue keeps me turning the pages. If there are long stretches of narrative without character interaction, I tend to drift away.
> 
> Congrats on the new book coming--that is always an awesome feeling.


I love dialogue, too--with you all the way. Personal preference, though, I know. To me, the draggy thing is lots of internal musing, but Drama Llama folks love that! To them, it's hooky.

And thanks! My biggest book ever. This thing is a MONSTER. 137K. We'll see if people actually do read it all! If I wasn't hooky, I'll soon find out.


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Love how you laid that all out. 

Lately, I've been trying to put in several deep hooks early and do the "chapter cliffs" - they can be pretty short cliffs, but they get people to commit to "one more chapter"

A related idea is how to keep readers from wriggling off the hook once you've set it. One method is, with so many readers on smaller screens, I avoid longer paragraphs.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

mach 5 said:


> Love how you laid that all out.
> 
> Lately, I've been trying to put in several deep hooks early and do the "chapter cliffs" - they can be pretty short cliffs, but they get people to commit to "one more chapter"
> 
> A related idea is how to keep readers from wriggling off the hook once you've set it. One method is, with so many readers on smaller screens, I avoid longer paragraphs.


Great point. I always read on my Kindle as I'm doing edits, and I find myself breaking paragraphs more.


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## Sarah Chute (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks so much for sharing! 
I'll keep those tips in mind once I begin editing my first draft.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Evenstar said:


> I soooo agree with everything you have said. The first chapter of my first book is _boring_! It doesn't hook. I've rewritten it about a thousand times and I just can't get it to be more hooky.


I had this problem with my first romance. Struggling with it was keeping me from writing the book, so I skipped the first chapter, wrote the rest, and then went back and struggled some more with the beginning until I hit on something acceptable. Having just that one thing left to do was less frustrating than letting that one thing stop me in my tracks with an entire novel yet to write. I'm one of those who edits as I go and generally I can't leave something until it's the way I want it, but that taught me to let go when I had to.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

Good advice, as usual.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Joe_Nobody said:


> Good advice, as usual.


Ha, thanks, Mr. Nobody.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

soulfulone said:


> As always, excellent advice. Thank You!


Thanks! Really interested to see others' points here also. I tend to write at a pretty subconscious level. (Well, I don't WRITE that way, but I don't think about what I'm doing that consciously.) Even thinking about what I've done after the fact, though, can help inform the work in the next outing, I find.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

mach 5 said:


> Love how you laid that all out.
> 
> Lately, I've been trying to put in several deep hooks early and do the "chapter cliffs" - they can be pretty short cliffs, but they get people to commit to "one more chapter"
> 
> A related idea is how to keep readers from wriggling off the hook once you've set it. One method is, with so many readers on smaller screens, I avoid longer paragraphs.


I can only talk about thrillers, mostly from one point of view all the way through, but it can also work with chapters with a different POV in different chapters, so that the reader has to push on to resolve that cliffhanger in that particular POV later in the book. They can be short cliffs/hooks at the end of a chapter, but it should always be a situation to resolve. The trick in the next chapter is not to resolve the situation right away, but to have them fall further down the cliff to increase the suspense, then build to the next cliffhanger by the end of the chapter.

You know you have it right when a review says that they couldn't put the book down, or you see page reads on KU matching the length of your book in one session, or two sessions at the most on consecutive days.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Great stuff. I like to visualize a chain pulling the reader from the first page to the last. Each chapter ending is a link, each chapter beginning is a link, and they have to be connected to pull the reader along. Even if Chapter N and Chapter N+1 don't follow the same characters or whatever, the lead-out in one chapter has to form a link with the next chapter to keep the reader going. Don't let them pause for a break or whatever, keep the links forged together to keep them reading just one more page.

And you can dig deeper to make each scene, paragraph, sentence a smaller link in the overall chain, if you like getting down into the weeds.

Reread your work, have betas read it. If you feel like a part is dragging or isn't holding your interest or your readers' interests, look for the weak links and cut them out and forge stronger ones. Or cut them out completely and make the overall chain stronger.


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## Abderian (Apr 5, 2012)

Evenstar said:


> I soooo agree with everything you have said. The first chapter of my first book is _boring_! It doesn't hook. I've rewritten it about a thousand times and I just can't get it to be more hooky. I dread to think how many readers I lose with it, but at some point you have to just give up and move on. sigh...


Sometimes the best thing is to ditch the first one or two chapters and start further on in the story.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

Here's an excellent guide to foreshadowing, cliffhangers, and plot twists:


__
https://114543418231%2Fforeshadowing-cliffhanger-plot-twists-e4w


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## Nicholas Erik (Sep 22, 2015)

This is an excellent post.

I agree with starting strong. I misunderstood hooks at the beginning, like the first couple chapters would be a slow burn where you kind of float your ideas/themes (what if...dogs could talk?). Nah. If possible, you want to drop an absolute bomb in the first chapter that dictates what's going on in the rest of the book. Something I've been trying to do is use whatever I was planning to use for the first plot point at 25% and putting that at the end of the first chapter. So it's like 5% in, rather than a quarter in. 

That's something I pulled from the Hunger Games, which has masterful pacing. You expect Katniss to kind of putz around town for a while, get beaten down by the BS of daily life, then eventually get dragged into the Hunger Games. 

Nope. Collins sets up everything you need to know, and then twenty pages in, Katniss is in the shit. It just pushes the story and the stakes so much higher. She establishes a character/setting you care about, and then boom, immediately everything changes. 

None of this happened by accident - as Rosalind points out, cliffhangers/transitions all need to be thought out ahead of time. Each Hunger Games book is 27 chapters exactly, and within 2000 or so words of one another. Definitely engineered. It worked. 

Anyway, the giant hook in the first chapter reminds me of something Louis C.K. does with his sets - he takes the joke he was going to end with (traditionally your strongest material) and then he puts that first. That just makes him elevate his entire set and raise the quality of the entire production. Start high and go higher. 

Nick


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Ha, I don't think 'em out ahead of time. I'm sure that's good to do, but I don't. I don't outline or plan the story arc or anything. Like I said, it all tends to happen pretty subconsciously, but somehow, if I remember that it needs to happen, it happens more strongly. 

But those are great points and examples!


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

When I read for fun, I only give books a page or two. If they haven't got my attention, I'm done. I try to appeal to other impatient readers. Start with action and cut any hint of flabfrom the first 20% or so. Once the reader is investe you have more wiggle room, but the beginning is crucial.

THG series is so readable but a lot of the cliffies in Mickingjay are hamfisted. Rereading it inspired me to be more blantant about breaking scenes into cliffy chapters. After all, I didn't notice it the first time I read it!

I don't end every ch with a cliffy. Sometimes I end on a high note. But I always keep the plot moving.


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## S.R. Booth (Oct 6, 2013)

Excellent post! Bookmarked. Thank you!


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Great breakdown. For sure, this is the importance of pacing and structure.

Short paragraphs and short chapters make it easy to pull the reader along. Stick in long ones when necessary but pace them out.

Chapter cliffhangers are great. Often a scene can have a chapter break in the middle, right when something goes from bad to worse. I think ending paragraphs and lines of chapters are great things to focus on!

As a reader, I find POV switching a bit of resistance to get through, so depending on genre (and story, of course) sticking to one POV might be more hooky. You can have a big cliffhanger, but if the next chapter doesn't pick up at the same spot with the same character, I might call it a night.

I also think consistency of quality, mood, and pacing are important. Every chapter doesn't need to be high action or whatever, but find a formula of interconnected chapters and try to keep that energy. Not enough that the reading becomes a predictable slog, but you don't want the book to feel completely different in the middle half than the opening and closing. That's a good way to lose readers.

Anyway, these are just my opinions that haven't been heavily tested, but the direction my craft has been going since 2015.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Interesting, Domino! I shift POV a LOT--within chapters (but with scene breaks). I don't get any pushback for it, but I really work to make it clear whose POV you are in. I think the shifting POVs actually help pull the reader along, keep her engaged, but it's romance, of course.

It was most challenging in FIERCE--the book I reference--since it's written in alternating first-person POV. But I often have many POVs. The book I'm publishing today (gulp) has 5, and I've had as many as 7! (In suspense.)

I also shift mood a lot within the book. But romance is all about eliciting emotion. I want to make the reader laugh, cry, think, steam up, be scared, be excited, and sigh. So--different chapters will do different things. I actually think of my pacing sort of like waves. If I were to draw a diagram, the mood would go gradually up in a series of smaller waves, gradually increasing. The peaks of the waves aren't just sex (which for me happens about 50-65% through the book)--they're also action, danger, or just strong emotion. But I want to have quiet, sweet, and funny times in between those. Or, in the book I just wrote--there's a really sexy chapter followed by a funny chapter where the hero messes up. Then a sexier chapter. I think the "rest periods" actually help intensify the stronger emotion periods--keep the reader from getting numb by it being all nonstop action. I don't like that Disney-movie thing where it's just racing, racing, racing--you know, when Cruella's chasing the dalmatians around all the corners until her car goes off the cliff.

The waves build to up to a great big wave at the end, and a fall down to a sweet, satisfying wrapup. The last 20% or so of the book should be building, building, building, with the reader pressing the "next" button on the Kindle pretty frantically and staying up late to finish. At least that's the goal! But again--not all the same emotion. I want there to be a buildup of suspense if it's suspense, then that climactic scary/action thing, then a big, sweet emotional scene, then a wrapup, then another sweet emotional scene. Suspense, fear, tears, satisfying tie-up-in-bow, tears, The End. 

But that'll be different for different genres, of course. Just one example of how suspense might look. Like a conductor, like a piece of music. Building, building, building at the end.


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## MelodieRochelle (Jan 4, 2016)

Thank you for the advice! I started writing stories when I was only a little girl and I drew the pictures out and everything! Writing has always been my passion and cliff hangers has always been my strongest point and knowing this can help with successful books gives me lots of hope!


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

I agree this is generally good information, though many will see certain things as subjective. The main thing that stuck out to me is taking out the "boring" stuff. There are some that would say much of what I read is "boring". I bring up David Foster Wallace as an example quite often. Anyone that's read Infinite Jest can testify to the fact that his writing is extremely dense. He can go pages and pages and pages focusing on the contents of a single room, and we are talking about 1000 plus page book here. I think it's sheer brilliance. Others call it "pretentious" (though I believe that calling any piece of art pretentious is lazy criticism and easily dismissed as such, but I digress). Same goes for the films I watch, Tarantino being a fine example. Hateful Eight is nothing but conversation for the first 100 minutes. Some of the conversation has zilch to do with plot. But I love it. I'd cut none of it.

Basically, to sum up my rambling, it's subjective (I already said that...I think). I like to have characters in my books just talk...whether it's about past memories or just having them wax poetically about the fragility of human existence, that's what I love writing. That's also what hooks me, personally. Then again, I've never really been an action/adventure/tension sorta guy.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

JV said:


> I agree this is generally good information, though many will see certain things as subjective. The main thing that stuck out to me is taking out the "boring" stuff. There are some that would say much of what I read is "boring". I bring up David Foster Wallace as an example quite often. Anyone that's read Infinite Jest can testify to the fact that his writing is extremely dense. He can go pages and pages and pages focusing on the contents of a single room, and we are talking about 1000 plus page book here. I think it's sheer brilliance. Others call it "pretentious" (though I believe that calling any piece of art pretentious is lazy criticism and easily dismissed as such, but I digress). Same goes for the films I watch, Tarantino being a fine example. Hateful Eight is nothing but conversation for the first 100 minutes. Some of the conversation has zilch to do with plot. But I love it. I'd cut none of it.
> 
> Basically, to sum up my rambling, it's subjective (I already said that...I think). I like to have characters in my books just talk...whether it's about past memories or just having them wax poetically about the fragility of human existence, that's what I love writing. That's also what hooks me, personally. Then again, I've never really been an action/adventure/tension sorta guy.


No argument from me! That's why some readers say I'm "slow and boring." If I'm going to read about two people falling in love, I want to SEE them falling in love. And that means, yep, talking, not just thinking, "He's so hawt."  I'm pretty darned leisurely for a romance author--but I try to make sure every scene is moving the story along.

When I say, "boring," I mean like my description of walking down the street into the village. Nah, Rosalind, put them in the grocery store already having their intense conversation while Iain stares at the pink lamingtons (squishy coconut thingies . . . never mind). Whatever you realize your story doesn't need. Whatever isn't advancing character or plot or story. Which YOU will be able to determine for your own story.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

MelodieRochelle said:


> Thank you for the advice! I started writing stories when I was only a little girl and I drew the pictures out and everything! Writing has always been my passion and cliff hangers has always been my strongest point and knowing this can help with successful books gives me lots of hope!


Sounds good. Good luck!


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> No argument from me! That's why some readers say I'm "slow and boring." If I'm going to read about two people falling in love, I want to SEE them falling in love. And that means, yep, talking, not just thinking, "He's so hawt."  I'm pretty darned leisurely for a romance author--but I try to make sure every scene is moving the story along.
> 
> When I say, "boring," I mean like my description of walking down the street into the village. Nah, Rosalind, put them in the grocery store already having their intense conversation while Iain stares at the pink lamingtons (squishy coconut thingies . . . never mind). Whatever you realize your story doesn't need. Whatever isn't advancing character or plot or story. Which YOU will be able to determine for your own story.


Exactly. I mean, there's so many ways to communicate different things, some people will prefer your method and some won't. Wallace often communicated character personality from the way they interacted with their surroundings...sometimes that meant going on at length about them just taking in a room, watching a clock, watching a fly buzz, going back to watching the clock as their knees start to rattle together, wiping beads of sweat from their forehead (this scene was about a guy growing gradually more paranoid that his dealer wasn't going to show and that he'd have to go without his drugs for the evening)--some may find that insufferable. For some it works. You'll never please everyone.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

JV said:


> Exactly. I mean, there's so many ways to communicate different things, some people will prefer your method and some won't. Wallace often communicated character personality from the way they interacted with their surroundings...sometimes that meant going on at length about them just taking in a room, watching a clock, watching a fly buzz, going back to watching the clock as their knees start to rattle together, wiping beads of sweat from their forehead (this scene was about a guy growing gradually more paranoid that his dealer wasn't going to show and that he'd have to go without his drugs for the evening)--some may find that insufferable. For some it works. You'll never please everyone.


Literary fiction is also allowed to move a LOT more slowly. In thriller, romance, mystery, etc., you generally want to keep the story going (if you want to sell well). Readers are a lot less patient in genre, I'd say.

(Says the woman who just put out a 137K romance novel . . . but stuff happens! she wails.)


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## Nicholas Erik (Sep 22, 2015)

@Rosalind - whoops, misspoke (mistyped?). It definitely sounded like I was saying to outline everything. Subconsciously doing this stuff would be awesome, but I don't think I've automated the structure skills enough to actually drop into flow and make things automatic. 

@Crystal - it's interesting you bring up this point about The Hunger Games Trilogy, because the pacing gets noticeably worse from book to book. I think this is a byproduct of Collins/the publisher understanding everyone was already hooked. It just wasn't nearly as tight or well maintained. I mean still good, but not like the reaction I had to the first book which was just "I completely understand why everyone who has ever existed read this book."

Definitely good points on cliffhangers and overuse in some of the responses. I'm guilty of this, and it just makes it so everything is super fast paced. I really like the music analogy. It's kind of like a song that only has a manic verse, and no chorus or bridge. It doesn't really work. Definitely the trickiest part of pacing is getting the rhythm down so that the book has a nice flow to it. 

And yeah, in literary fiction you have much more leeway with structure/pacing. Most genre stuff (almost all?) follows a three/four act structure and has ample hooks/cliffhangers. I like the literary stuff in both film/books - End of the Tour was awesome, Before Sunrise is a top-5 movie for me, but obviously the pacing/market is massively different than a Bourne movie. I think you want to make a conscious structure decision that is congruent with your goals/genres - and understand what the pros/consequences are of playing outside the expected boundaries. That's something I didn't do with my first couple books, because I didn't know structure.

Nick


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Nicholas Erik said:


> And yeah, in literary fiction you have much more leeway with structure/pacing. Most genre stuff (almost all?) follows a three/four act structure and has ample hooks/cliffhangers. I like the literary stuff in both film/books - End of the Tour was awesome, Before Sunrise is a top-5 movie for me, but obviously the pacing/market is massively different than a Bourne movie. I think you want to make a conscious structure decision that is congruent with your goals/genres - and understand what the pros/consequences are of playing outside the expected boundaries. That's something I didn't do with my first couple books, because I didn't know structure.
> 
> Nick


Agreed. My first love is literary fiction, hence why my supposed zombie novels tend to read like literary fiction. I've gotten more love than hate, but it's definitely garnered more than one complaint (*slow*is a word I've heard more than once). But I'm working through a publisher and have a contract so I'm not too concerned with making back any sort of investment because I've paid for nothing, so I continue to write in that style, for better or worse. However, after my next trilogy I'm leaving my publisher to pursue literary fiction...which may or may not be a really bad idea. But it's my passion...I don't want to write horror fiction forever. You only live once...can't hit if you don't swing...at least that's what I keep telling myself as I draw closer to the edge of the cliff .


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## LeanneWinter CoverDesign (Aug 21, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> When I say, "boring," I mean like my description of walking down the street into the village. Nah, Rosalind, put them in the grocery store already having their intense conversation while Iain stares at the pink lamingtons (squishy coconut thingies . . . never mind). Whatever you realize your story doesn't need. Whatever isn't advancing character or plot or story. Which YOU will be able to determine for your own story.


God...now I feel like pink lamingtons!! My mum used to make them but now it seems all you can get are chocolate ones. Sorry, what were we talking about again?


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## Sarah Shaw (Feb 14, 2015)

Thanks for this post and all the interesting replies. This is what I'm struggling with now, writing the first in my historical series. I got a professional evaluation of the first 50 pages and the conclusion was, 'great writing but there's no story here.'

I took her advice, added a prologue that sets up the action better and wrote back in the scandal that moves the action to France. Then I decided it was still moving too slowly, so now I've ripped the timeline to pieces and am starting with a major piece of drama that occurs about halfway through, then skipping back to the original beginning and going sequentially until about a third of the way through, when I drop in the next chapter from the middle. In addition I've added a couple chapters from the POV of one of the other main series characters. (The second book is mostly from his POV, with just a few chapters from the POV of the main character in this book.) 

I've got the first part out with some beta readers now and I'm chewing my fingers, waiting to find out if it works for them. 

And then, assuming I get that resolved, I'll have to tackle the whole story arc, which is a mess right now. I have the tension building fairly well through about the first half of the book, but then it's pretty much resolved (or seems to be) and I have to figure how to build back in some tension before the final denouement. 

I, too, love 'slow' literary fiction, but I also love the historical and historical romance genre and I'd love for my books to be both fairly demanding of readers and real page-turners. To my mind, Dorothy Dunnett does this brilliantly in her Lymond series, but I don't think I have it in me to plot that densely.

Anyway, I need to figure it all out, and this thread is a big help! Thanks again.


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## Mary Papas (Nov 25, 2015)

Here's my how to be hooky list:

1) Avoid long descriptions. Noone wants to know in every detail what is on the table. 

2) Every paragraph, every sentence, has to have a purpose, it has to lead somewhere. If it doesn't, it simply has no place in your story. 

3) Avoid propping up certain characters.  Introduce your characters to your readers, and let them decide on their own who is good and who is bad, what is right and what is wrong, what is interesting and what is boring.  

4) Less is more...short sentences create more intensity and depth.


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## Mary Papas (Nov 25, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Literary fiction is also allowed to move a LOT more slowly. In thriller, romance, mystery, etc., you generally want to keep the story going (if you want to sell well). Readers are a lot less patient in genre, I'd say.
> 
> (Says the woman who just put out a 137K romance novel . . . but stuff happens! she wails.)


Depends on what you mean by slow. If someone takes 50 pages to describe how a couple met , or if he takes 25 pages to describe in full detail the beach, the restaurant, the bedroom, the kitchen, etc, it won't matter how great the characters are or how deeply they love each other...very few readers will stick around to see what happens next. Slow is important when it involves serious development, not when it involves long and over the top detailed descriptions often repeated, over and over again.

If an author focuses more on descriptions and less on action, then the story can get boring.That's not subjective...that's a fact.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Mary Papas said:


> Here's my how to be hooky list:
> 
> 1) Avoid long descriptions. Noone wants to know in every detail what is on the table.
> 
> ...


Good points. However, I find that if too many sentences are short, the flow can get really choppy. It seems to work better to alternate length of sentences. Also, the more action is happening, the shorter my sentences get. (Whether that's suspense or sex!) If it's a dreamier mood (like, say, after a love scene, or a more introspective scene), the sentences will tend to be longer.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Mary Papas said:


> 3) Avoid propping up certain characters. Introduce your characters to your readers, and let them decide on their own who is good and who is bad, what is right and what is wrong, what is interesting and what is boring.


Oh, yes, and to that I'd add don't spoonfeed your readers. Give them something to work out for themselves and leave room for their own imagination. I have to admit I find it a bit tedious when I read whole paragraphs of inner monologue about how much the heroine fancies the hero and how gorgeous he is. I'd much rather that be revealed through action and dialogue.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Lee04 said:


> God...now I feel like pink lamingtons!! My mum used to make them but now it seems all you can get are chocolate ones. Sorry, what were we talking about again?


LOL. I think the pink ones are pretty shocking looking, actually.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> Oh, yes, and to that I'd add don't spoonfeed your readers. Give them something to work out for themselves and leave room for their own imagination. I have to admit I find it a bit tedious when I read whole paragraphs of inner monologue about how much the heroine fancies the hero and how gorgeous he is. I'd much rather that be revealed through action and dialogue.


Totally agree with this!


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## Nathalie Aynie (Nov 24, 2013)

I am not a successful author, not by a long shot, so you might take this idea with a grain of salt (this is not advice, by the way, I could never give anyone advice with my lack of sales---it's my preference, plain and simple). 

I've read a lot of writing advice from Holly Lisle. She used to write about candy bar scenes---the scenes you really, _really_ want to write, to motivate you to plow forward.



> Create five or six "candy-bar" scenes, and use them to keep you moving forward.
> 
> First, let me define a "candy-bar" scene. It's one that you're just itching to write -- something sweet enough that you can dangle it on a stick in front of yourself so that you can say, "When I've done these next three chapters, I'll get to write that one.
> 
> ...


Well... I try to only write candy bar scenes. Only the scenes that I, as a writer/reader, can't live without. All the rest is cut off, or inserted in another way during the candy bar scene. I don't dwell on parts of the story that do not excite me. I think that it makes better books to write for me, and as a reader I'm more excited to read everything instead of jumping paragraphs.

I also refuse to keep the really neat ideas for sequels. I cram as much excitement as I can as soon as possible, sequels be damned. In any case, it's not like there is a lack of inspiration/ideas to write more later.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I actually include scenes that don't have to be in the book all of the time. I find readers want to have fun with characters and get to know them. It doesn't always have to be all plot all of the time.
When I think about some of my favorite series, the scenes that stick with me are the fun and unnecessary ones. Take Harry Potter, for example. My favorite scenes are de-gnoming the yard, the Weasleys picking Harry up for the World Cup, Christmas at Grimmauld Place, George and Fred doing anything, etc. All of those scenes could've been cut, but the magic is in the details.
I waste chapters all of the time on out of control family dinners, romantic talks between the hero and heroine, even fights where family members act immature. It gives readers flavor and allows them to bond with characters when the stakes aren't necessarily dire.
You don't need to explain how someone got from one end of the house to the other or out to the car (that's the stuff that turns readers off), but letting readers hang with your characters in a relaxed setting goes a long way to form a bond.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Mary Papas said:


> Depends on what you mean by slow. If someone takes 50 pages to describe how a couple met , or if he takes 25 pages to describe in full detail the beach, the restaurant, the bedroom, the kitchen, etc, it won't matter how great the characters are or how deeply they love each other...very few readers will stick around to see what happens next. Slow is important when it involves serious development, not when it involves long and over the top detailed descriptions often repeated, over and over again.
> 
> If an author focuses more on descriptions and less on action, then the story can get boring.That's not subjective...that's a fact.


Well, unless we are polling every reader in America, that's far from fact. Different people enjoy different things, now THAT is a fact. Some of my favorite authors focus heavily on description and I don't get bored, not in the slightest.


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> I pay attention to this on the paragraph level as well. If there's a new thought, a leap, that happens at the beginning of the next paragraph. If there's something the hero or heroine is going to find out, I don't telegraph it.


Nice post, Rosalind. And, wow, that's some intense micro-editing


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## mach 5 (Dec 5, 2015)

Amanda M. Lee said:


> I actually include scenes that don't have to be in the book all of the time. I find readers want to have fun with characters and get to know them.


Absolutely We are in the age of Reality Television. There is no escaping this. People what Big Brother extras online. They literally watch people doing their laundry and clipping their toe nails. Something like the Kardashian shows are no better, just more scripted for melodrama.

Amanda has a very large regular cast in at least one of her series consisting of 3 mid 20 cousins, their moms, and one crotchety old grand aunt suffering from "Sometimers." The moms run a B&B. It's a tough love sort of environment, sometimes every young witch for herself to escape either a lecture from one of the moms or magical (mild) torture from the grand aunt. That is the actual meat of the story. As for bones (which are their own hooks), there are about six of them - slide the killer in among the wider cast (not a bone, but the insertion of one), have the crime occur and one of the regulars get drawn in. A few perils arise (bones 3-5) that could be the threat of mortal danger or the grand aunt's wrath or the local sheriff looking at the family a little too hard and then the mystery is resolved. Mickey Spillane did it with guns instead of spells. And Arthur Conan Doyle did it with facts we weren't privy too. The characters mattered, the mystery didn't. We never had Holmes' inside knowledge that the wear pattern on So and So's thumb meant he was a tinker and thus would have had access to the odd weapon that was used to murder Mr Other So and So. We might have seen him linger over shaking the tinker's hand...but we didn't solve the mystery.

It all depends on the kind of book you write best.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Steven Hardesty said:


> Yes, but...
> 
> Yes, but but...
> 
> ...


Then you won't like my books. I will waste 3,000 words on a family fight at dinner just because it makes me laugh. I will spend an entire subplot with witches being cursed to smell like bacon and attracting every man in town. The great-aunt has a pot field and the mothers are in competition to snag the local police chief. The cousins fight about nothing and bond over everything. I will deviate for meals with their father, walks under the moon, spying on their enemies and sometimes just recovering from a hangover.
Does it work? People are naming their animals after my characters, so I consider it a win.
My favorite parts of mysteries are never the mysteries. Take the In Death books by J.D. Robb. My favorite scenes are the quiet ones with Roarke and Eve.
I prefer character development over plot every single time.


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Shifting moods, taking breathers, having fun with "useless" scenes - I think there's space for all of them in a properly paced novel. It's important to be aware of how the scenes fit together. The waves and music analogies are nice. Like you said, Rosalind, I bet you have a good natural sense of pacing without needing to diagram it necessarily.

I definitely don't think zany family dinners that have no bearing on the overall plot events are "useless" and should be stripped out. The scenes can set a mood, or grow the characters (and the reader's understanding of them). These scenes can be very important.

Some screenplay-level writing has this mindset of simplistic elegance, but that may be more valid for a 30-minute sitcom or a short story, but never necessary. I would chalk that up to style, more than anything. If you're entertaining, you can be hooky either way.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm not talking about "non-essential" scenes that are fun or create mood or reveal character or whatever.  I guess it's a "you'll know it when you see it" thing. If the chapter is boring AND serves no vital purpose, nix!

If I included only essential scenes, this book wouldn't have been 137K . . . All my books could be 70K instead of 90-137K if I didn't put in so much "stuff." But to me, the scenes are important. They might not keep the PLOT going forward, but they keep the STORY going forward by revealing something important about the characters. That's the way they're essential. I write very character-driven stuff. 

The flip side is that some readers want romances to get to the point. Meet, have sex, fight, leave, make up. Whatever. They're going to hate my books. They're going to write things like (these are from actual reviews): "Slow and boring beyond belief." "Like wading in mud." Oh, well! To ME, the scenes are essential because I don't "believe" two people falling in love unless I SEE and HEAR them falling in love. Unless I watch them actually getting to know each other and enjoying each others' company. 

Which, yes, can definitely include seeing each other at family dinners! Getting comfortable with his family, in my books, is often a big part of falling in love. Seeing how he reveals his softer side with his mom. How his dad and mom relate. I'm not going to bash the reader over the head with it and say, "She realized he had a soft side." But if I think about the scene, I'll realize that that was why it's there. Or if something's funny--the fact that they can laugh over stuff is important in a marriage. Trust me--I've been married 30 years. Pretty vital in fact!

Obviously, I haven't thought this out as well as I might have! Discussing it forces me to think it through for myself, though, and I suppose that's the point. There's not a "right answer," just stuff to think about.


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## Nicholas Erik (Sep 22, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Obviously, I haven't thought this out as well as I might have! Discussing it forces me to think it through for myself, though, and I suppose that's the point. There's not a "right answer," just stuff to think about.


I mean, I think you've got it pretty much pegged from what I'm reading here. This is an awesome thread. But I agree with the sentiment - one of the most unforeseen and useful benefits of joining KBoards (rather than lurking) was that writing about my process - be it marketing or craft - has made me reexamine what I thought I knew and made me dive that much deeper into those elements. I've grown so much because I'll type out a 400 word response, then go "is that really true?" and then sit back and think about it, and be like, [crap], I don't think I actually know what I'm talking about. Then I don't post it and go try to figure out what the hell is going on.

"Those who can't do teach" is one of the worst, most egregious lies ever told. To teach and communicate a point effectively to others, you need to know and understand something in your bones. Otherwise everything gets lost in a translation. Definitely one of the main things that has elevated my work in the past six months. My tip for da noobs out there who might be hesitating to join or post - get in the fray.

@Amanda - love that type of stuff. LOST is full of those sorts of backstory/non-essential character building bits, and it just makes it so, so rich of a world. Obviously something like NCIS works too, where the plot just burns along and the characters are kind of taken along for the ride and the whole thing is very lean. Guess the choice comes down to audience (and author, too), since both work.

Nick


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

Have you guys read the Jack Reacher series? Those are hooky beyond belief. _Persuader_ in particular stood out to me due to the first chapter. In it (minor/vague spoilers) Reacher gets pulled into a really bad situation against his will, dragged along and then very reluctantly agrees to continue helping out. The very last sentence of Chapter 1 then had him making a call and revealing that this had been his plan all along - suddenly I was sitting up going _what?_ It was brilliantly done, and used my expectations against me to both surprise me and then pull me in deeper.

When it comes to 'hookiness', I think the real trick is to understand your reader's expectations, and then play with them. If you can surprise your reader in a good way you can really draw them into your book. If you can play with conventions in a manner both respectful and original, if you can subvert tropes or throw in genuine plot twists, you'll get their attention and keep it.

I think there's also room for shocking your reader. GRRM did that with Eddard Stark's fate in Book 1 of GoT. People were upset - outraged even - but grew only more addicted.

I completely agree with Amanda's point about flavor scenes, which both serve to flesh out loved characters more and relax the pacing. My favorite scenes from most of my books are the downtimes when the characters I really dig get to be each other and crack jokes and have fun. But I have to really like the characters for that to work - which in turn means that maybe true 'hookiness' is being able to craft characters that the readers can really love.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Just by way of encouragement--my recent focus on this seems to be working. My new book is tremendously long, which I was really worried about. However, nobody's complained, and I've had lots of "up all night" messages--so I think I actually DID do a better job with this. 

And I agree with the above. The Jack Reacher books are some of the ones I thought of, in terms of those books that pull you through the story.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

IreneP said:


> Nice post, Rosalind. And, wow, that's some intense micro-editing


(Above referred to editing at the paragraph level to make sure, for example, that I wasn't telegraphing "what comes next here")--

Yeah. I edit really, really heavily as I go. Final edits only take me a week or so on a 100-130K book. I spend at least half of each day editing.


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## JVRudnick (Sep 12, 2014)

Rosalind...thanks SO much for this thread...never contributed but did read and learn...

muchly appreciated there girl!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

JVRudnick said:


> Rosalind...thanks SO much for this thread...never contributed but did read and learn...
> 
> muchly appreciated there girl!


Thanks! It was useful for me. Lots of food for thought in the responses.


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## Sarah Shaw (Feb 14, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Discussing it forces me to think it through for myself, though, and I suppose that's the point. There's not a "right answer," just stuff to think about.


Yes- and thank you again for starting this thread! Just writing out my problems helped me solve one of the biggest ones. I realized that the 'climax' point I'd identified as coming near the middle of the book was actually 100,000 words in... So I'll just wrap up from that point, leaving a strong whiff of uncertainty at the end to serve as a hook into the next book of the series! Win! 

Still struggling with how to make the beginning more compelling, but my ripping apart the timeline doesn't seem to be working, so probably I'll go back to straight chronological.

Thanks to everyone for all your different perspectives. It's a great reminder that there's no one 'method' that will give everyone what they want. You just have to find what works for _you_.


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## lmckinley (Oct 3, 2012)

I just want to share this, in relation to the question of pacing and 'unnecessary' stuff. These are both reviews for the same book.

"Tedious read. Ending unsatisfying. Felt like it was written by a 90yr old. Characters seemed dull and lifeless. Started skimming through pages halfway mark. It is the first book that I have ever actually done that and I have read thousands. There literally was nothing there to capture or keep my attention. Worst read I have experienced."

This was one of my first reviews, and my very first one star. I didn't write again for like two months after reading this. (I was between projects, and I take a lot of breaks, so this wasn't as dramatic as it might sound. But it was still long.)

"Just loved the storyline! I don't think you will want to put this one down."

I've also gotten this review and others like it.

I've often used the the rule of thumb to cut out the boring parts, but it leaves a lot of room for self-doubt. I think the trick is cut out what you find boring. Some people will share your taste, so you just have to write for those people. I read this great thing by Dean Koontz talking about how the literary style that was so successful for Hemingway, i.e. cut out everything you possibly can - the whole iceberg thing that I was taught in college - is difficult to do and doesn't serve a lot of authors well. That was so freeing to me. 

I also think being funny, goofy, happy is very hooky, at least for me. I love it when a book makes me happy. It makes me want to keep reading.

I like the wave analogy that you used, Rosalind. I need to think about that one.

Anyway, go back to listening to Rosalind who knows more than I do.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks for this  .
One of the best bits of advice I read on these boards was that if you want to include descriptions of the surroundings or weather etc then show how they affect the MC (or other characters). I don't like reading long descriptions (or writing them) but that bit of advice made all the difference. So, if you need descriptions in your openings make sure they have some relevance to the MC.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Thanks for this .
> One of the best bits of advice I read on these boards was that if you want to include descriptions of the surroundings or weather etc then show how they affect the MC (or other characters). I don't like reading long descriptions (or writing them) but that bit of advice made all the difference. So, if you need descriptions in your openings make sure they have some relevance to the MC.


That's great advice. I DO write some descriptions (not long, because I too am bored by lots of description). But in all my books, readers mention that they like having me describe the place (esp. the NZ books). Reading the above made me realize that that's what I do. Like, my hero's riding his bicycle through the Tasman hills (NZ), and the landscape's so tranquil (describe in one sentence), but his mood is anything but. That works.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

lmckinley said:


> I just want to share this, in relation to the question of pacing and 'unnecessary' stuff. These are both reviews for the same book.
> 
> "Tedious read. Ending unsatisfying. Felt like it was written by a 90yr old. Characters seemed dull and lifeless. Started skimming through pages halfway mark. It is the first book that I have ever actually done that and I have read thousands. There literally was nothing there to capture or keep my attention. Worst read I have experienced."
> 
> ...


You are right! My books are either such page-turners that the reader was up all night, or--as above--slow and boring beyond belief. You choose! My rule is that if it's boring me to write, it'll probably bore somebody to read. If it makes me smile or laugh, I keep it.

I've cut more from the Montlake books, due to advice from the developmental editor, and I feel sort of torn about it. On the one hand, yes, you're pulled through the story more. On the other hand, you're less immersed in it as you're reading it, if that makes sense. Just depends on the kind of reader. And they were so long anyway. In one book, I went from 110K to 103K or so. But I still sort of miss a couple of those scenes.

No "right" answer, I don't think.


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## lmckinley (Oct 3, 2012)

> If it makes me smile or laugh, I keep it.


I like that. And you know I am actually guilty of removing things that I loved because of a fear that others won't like it the way I do. (Little things, really.) I mean, kill your darlings and all that, right? Sometimes things I love have to go. But there's that lingering fear that it'll sound silly or put people off if I'm too indulgent. Too...something. But yeah, no right answer. I'm beginning to see why so many writers spend a lifetime writing. There are so many potential choices and things to try. The creative possibilities never really end.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

"Non-essential" scenes where characters just hang out can be very popular ONCE the reader likes the characters. You have to get them liking the characters first.

I try to make sure my first 20% or so is super fast, so I have more leeway to have the h/H hang out and get to know each other more later. I tend to keep things pretty zippy and angsty (though I'm sure SOMEONE finds it boring) because that's what I prefer to read/watch.

You have to know your genre and your readership. Too much hanging out gets annoying, even for the most ardent of readers. If any of you guys play JRPGs, I think of Persona 4. The characters hang out so much my husband and I made up a term for pointless scenes based on that game-- watermelon. Because there's a scene where the characters crack open a watermelon (a big deal in Japan I guess). That game was fine--it's a high school sim to a degree, so people want to hang with the characters--but the re-release Personal 4 Golden added even more hanging outand it became almost unbearable.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

Awesome advice. My editor has only critiqued the first few chapters of my current WIP and she said my opener wasn't strong enough, unlike most of my first chapters that start with more of a "_BANG!_" So it needs more of a "hook" and stronger story ARC.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Great post. Agree with everything said, even if I don't implement your advice as successfully, these are all things I try to do. I'd add, if you are the type of person who splits chapters into related scenes like me, ending every scene with a "OH NOES! What's going to happen" is important too.

So happy to see you back here, OP.


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## MyCatDoesNotConsent (Sep 11, 2017)

Я не согласен с условиями T.O.S.


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