# Children's Book Authors Unite



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

The events of the past 24 hours has left many authors feeling angry, disillusioned and uncertain of their future. No demographic has been hit harder by the changes to KU's payout structure than children's book authors, who already have to contend with Amazon's inflated delivery charge. Although it's been talked about behind the scenes, I haven't seen any evidence of possible multipliers for illustrations. That same illustrated children's book, that no doubt is read over and over again by enthusiastic children, will now earn 20 to 30 cents per initial read through (with an estimate of 1 penny per page) rather than the $1.30 it made just a month ago.

Children's book authors weren't the ones gaming the system. We produce a work of fiction that must be brief enough to hold a child's interest. Often these stories are only 1,000 words or less. Sometimes they're more, depending on the age group. Is our work of any less value because of its length? And what about the expense? Children's book authors can sink thousands of dollars into illustrations, easily on par with the editing expenses associated with a novel.

Why are we being treated this way?

No one can put a price on your work. You assign it value. Is that book that you invested so much in worth mere pennies?

No, of course not.

Then it's time all of us did something about it. But what? Where are the best markets for children's books?

I can only tell you from my own personal experience which vendors pay the best. Amazon is still king, at least for the time being, but I've found surprising success in Kobo, of all places (and they don't have a delivery charge). Conversely, Barnes & Noble is dead for me, though you might find otherwise. Apple is a bit of a mystery. The majority of my catalog isn't in the Apple store, though, and if you want to be on the cutting edge in e-book design, you must experiment with Apple. Google, again, is a bit of a curious venture, though the potential is there for great things. Then there's the smaller fare--Tolino, Scribd, Oyster and Page Foundry--all places that your work should probably be in but you shouldn't expect anything from.

And then there are the little surprises. Small storefronts like Teachers Pay Teachers can net you a few sales every month (and you don't need to be a teacher to sell your products there).

Last, there is your own personal store, where you can sell directly to your readers and see the royalties in your bank account immediately (take a look at Gumroad and Content Shelf).

In short, there's a whole world of possibilities that you probably weren't aware of where you can sell your work. Yes, it will be some time to establish yourself in new markets and replace the lost income, but at least your future is in your hands.

You are not beholden to Amazon, or any other vendor, for that matter.

Don't let anyone devalue you.

You are worth so much more.

Together we will get through this, mark my words.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Well said Scott. I was sitting and waiting for you to come in and voice your opinion.

We'll get through this, because indies are adaptable. One of my favourite books of mine (How High Will It Fly - in my sig below) is 24 hard copy pages, including 10 full page illustrations. But it's only 108 words of rhyming verse. I love that book, my daughter loves that book - and it has a KENPC of 1 page . At the current estimates, I'll get paid $0.0057 if someone reads the entire book.

I'm not rushing into big changes though. I need to see how the landscape develops. I don't rely on the income from my books and I have a day job I enjoy too much to give up anyway, but I like my hobby of kids book writing to be self sustaining. It's not self sustaining at half a cent per copy.

Don't get me wrong, the system needed a change and, despite how it affects me, I actually think the new system is slightly better than the old. It doesn't fit me, so I'll look at my options and go from there. Cause that's what we do - we're adaptable indies.

Now go forth and write


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

I wasn't planning on commenting on this board, but since many children's book authors are here, I made an exception.

It's ridiculous that your 24-page children's book only registers as 1 KENPC page. Amazon better be careful they don't get their pants sued off since the interpretation of what constitutes a page is debatable (and it's probably not in their best interests to disclose their cost-cutting algorithm). It could become a public relations nightmare in no time!

But let's remain positive.

Even though I am pulling some underperforming titles, I will leave the popular ones in and see what happens. If it's still bad after a few months, I'll pull everything, no hesitation, and put my stuff wide.

We should all be researching, though, and dipping our toes in other venues.

Most children's book authors need tools to help them put their books in other stores and promote, and I am working on something for them. I am also dabbling on having my own storefront--lots of irons in the fire right now.

I don't think the new system is better at all, and it hurts me where it hurts most--my pocketbook. Sure, I also have a day job, but I was counting down the days until I could make the jump back to being a full time author. Now that plan has been put on hold so that I can adapt to the new climate.

If anyone has knows of any additional markets a children's book author can sell their work, I'd love to hear them.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

No help, no ideas but do have some hugs.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

Judging the value of a system based on how it serves you helps no one but you.

I am not an author of children's books. I don't like how the system is treating author's of children's books. If I were an author of children's books, I would pull all my work out of KU, continue to sell it on Amazon, and go wide.

That simple.

If Amazon want's children's books in KU, they will find a way to make it more attractive for you. If they do not, then it's better that you get out.

However, I don't imagine Amazon is that short-sighted. Only time will tell.


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## Austin_Briggs (Aug 21, 2011)

I was writing children books while my kids were small. But... very expensive to make (since I can’t draw, I have to hire illustrators), high delivery charge... and now this.

I’m going to pull out of KU for my kids titles and go wide. I have no energy to do anything else.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

segordon said:


> If anyone has knows of any additional markets a children's book author can sell their work, I'd love to hear them.


For what it's worth, I was having success at GooglePlay, prior to the shakeup at the end of last year which helped some genres and buried others. I went from making consistently good money (for me) there, to pretty much nothing.

That was the point at which I pulled everything into Select, where I was starting to gain some traction.

I think I'll also be keeping some in Select for now (even earning half a cent per read) and will see how the landscape looks at the end of the year, once the changes have fully bedded in. There may be an updated KENPC at some point...

I can see some major complaints against Amazon for the way kids authors are being treated, and it will be interesting to see if it heads down the legal action route. The trouble is that Amazon has some good links with Disney/Nick (see the FreeTime Unlimited offerings) which may seem them able to ignore losing indie kids book authors.

Looks like its time to play the adaptation game again...


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## Bella Breen (May 24, 2015)

segordon said:


> The events of the past 24 hours has left many authors feeling angry, disillusioned and uncertain of their future. No demographic has been hit harder by the changes to KU's payout structure than children's book authors, who already have to contend with Amazon's inflated delivery charge.


Don't forget about the other genres that write shorts such as erotica. We're making 10% of what we did yesterday. Email [email protected] and let him know how you feel.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> However, I don't imagine Amazon is that short-sighted. Only time will tell.


I figure Amazon has something up their sleeve, but am not sure what. A friend of mine contacted Amazon customer service and was told that pages with illustrations _*might*_ include multipliers (as mentioned above). Honestly, I think it might be easier for Amazon to just set aside a separate pot for children's book authors.



> Don't forget about the other genres that write shorts such as erotica.


My apologies. Short fiction erotica authors are in a world of hurt right now and I don't see Amazon doing anything about it.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

monamorabooks said:


> We're making 10% of what we did yesterday.


Make that 0.043% of what I was making yesterday    

(see my top post for context)


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> For what it's worth, I was having success at GooglePlay, prior to the shakeup at the end of last year which helped some genres and buried others. I went from making consistently good money (for me) there, to pretty much nothing.


I'm not sure what to think of Google, especially after the problems Viola Rivard had (miss you, Viola!), but it's probably time to give them another look.

BTW, I publish directly with Apple, and if anyone out there needs any pointers, I'd be happy to answer them. (I used to hate publishing directly with Apple, but they have improved immensely over the past couple years.)



> Make that 0.043% of what I was making yesterday


I only have 450 page reads reported thus far. On my worst day, I was still pulling in at least 25 borrows. Quite a nosedive in earnings.


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## Weibart (Oct 27, 2014)

I wrote my first release that I'm currently in production on, a graphic novel, as a complete work. BUT, I also wrote it as six chapters that can be released individually. As of right now, I plan on publishing the complete graphic novel on Amazon first as a single release (not in KU). I am also interested in releasing it as single episodes (with their own covers) to publish on KU, potentially, as an experiment to see how single episodes fair on there.

These episodes would be fairly short so I would be in the same boat. I'm the writer/artist of the series, so I don't have to pay an illustrator and deal with those fees, but I am curious and a bit concerned as to how KU would determine a page and how the delivery fees would factor in.

I totally feel for Children's Books authors as I've worked in graphic design and poured over style guides from different clients and admired how they approach design for short format releases. I'm a big fan of the #kidlit and #kidlitart hashtags on Twitter. There are tremendous artists creating these works with authors. Amazing stuff and well worth looking up if you're not familiar.

As it was said above, indies persevere and will adapt, especially children's authors. Amazon may be a heavy hitter, but there will always be other avenues to explore that might surprise you.


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## Bella Breen (May 24, 2015)

I emailed [email protected] and let him know I was pulling out my entire catalog and cancelling my KU subscription.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I wrote my first release that I'm currently in production on, a graphic novel, as a complete work. BUT, I also wrote it as six chapters that can be released individually. As of right now, I plan on publishing the complete graphic novel on Amazon first as a single release (not in KU). I am also interested in releasing it as single episodes (with their own covers) to publish on KU, potentially, as an experiment to see how single episodes fair on there.
> 
> These episodes would be fairly short so I would be in the same boat. I'm the writer/artist of the series, so I don't have to pay an illustrator and deal with those fees, but I am curious and a bit concerned as to how KU would determine a page and how the delivery fees would factor in.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight, Weibart. I appreciate you taking the time and would be happy to help promote your work.



> I emailed [email protected] and let him know I was pulling out my entire catalog and cancelling my KU subscription.


I'll bet the NY Times is doing a story on this. Don't be surprised if they quote you.


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## 4eyesbooks (Jan 9, 2012)

This is the response I got from my KDP contact when I inquired about a page multiplier for children's authors and asked if our payout was going down to $.0058 per page:

"At this time, we currently only compensate for pages read, no matter your book’s page count. We’re unable to provide alternative compensation for children’s books, but are still actively looking at the concerns and feedback from authors like yourself. I don’t know what the payout will be for July, so I can’t speak to that, but the email you should have received from KDP this morning that included the June total pages read, and confirmation of the July fund, was meant to provide some sort of guidance since we know this is a completely new thing.  Stay tuned as we continue to work on making this system more fair for all authors."

I think that response makes me feel worse than I was already feeling.  Time to research expansion of my titles.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

It does suck. Took all my books out a few days ago. I'm hoping my 6 permafree books will help me stay above water.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

dcswain said:


> One of my favourite books of mine (How High Will It Fly - in my sig below) is 24 hard copy pages, including 10 full page illustrations. But it's only 108 words of rhyming verse. I love that book, my daughter loves that book - and it has a KENPC of 1 page . At the current estimates, I'll get paid $0.0057 if someone reads the entire book.


This is basically what I predicted for illustration-rich, low-text books when this new model was first announced. It amounts to basically giving away work, something that was never imposed on long-form fiction under the old model, despite the complaints about that model.

I'm not "all in" on children's books, I only have one, but it has sold better than my other books by a significant margin. It's been in KDP Select for quite awhile, but activity on it dropped severely this year. Its latest enrollment expired in June and I planned to leave it inactive for a short while before re-enrolling, but that was about the time the new model was announced. I dropped my re-enrollment plans and went wide with it. (Well, I'm still working on adding channels.)

Appreciate hearing about TeachersPayTeachers, that's a new one for me, checking it out now.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> "At this time, we currently only compensate for pages read, no matter your book's page count. We're unable to provide alternative compensation for children's books, but are still actively looking at the concerns and feedback from authors like yourself. I don't know what the payout will be for July, so I can't speak to that, but the email you should have received from KDP this morning that included the June total pages read, and confirmation of the July fund, was meant to provide some sort of guidance since we know this is a completely new thing. Stay tuned as we continue to work on making this system more fair for all authors."


So there you have it.

Amazon doesn't care about children's books in KU.

It was fun while it lasted, and I hope everyone made decent money, but it's time to move on.

UPDATE- Total pages read for the day: 600


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

S.E. Gordon said:


> So there you have it.
> 
> Amazon doesn't care about children's books in KU.
> 
> ...


The children's book market only makes up a tiny fraction of their total revenue, so I am not surprised that they sacrificed us. I only published my first books 3 months ago and it's a total loss.


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## lyndabelle (Feb 26, 2015)

S.E. Gordon said:


> My apologies. Short fiction erotica authors are in a world of hurt right now and I don't see Amazon doing anything about it.


It did help to go on the All Caps Wed. thread and gave a good shout out about everything. Then I realized the only way to do something about this was write some more. Going wide seems the only solution now for many reasons. I've not pulled everything, but just a new series, because I wanted to see how the first month panned out. I have no pages read or sales today. I had 82 borrows and 22 sales last month. So, not sure if the new algos changed all the previous bought links too. That was really helping as well. So, I'm trying not to throw my hands up in aspiration. I went and started writing my next short. Only way to get through this is to write more.


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

I always was wary of KU, and when doing several promos with other children's authors on the board, I noticed the KU authors did much better in sales and borrows. I was doubting about doing a wide release with my next book. Now, there is no question I won't. The system is going to need a fix for children's picture books, there's no doubt. Or Amazon has run marketing data that shows people don't join KU for children's books. Not sure. It really does not serve any children's author to put their book in KU now. Not until something is fixed for the illustrations. 

Plus, a 1/2 cent per page? Really? We were trying to make it low ball with our estimates of a penny per page when guessing on other threads. Should just go write some pulp fiction. I mean, at least they got paid by the word. And I think it was much more than that. I'm really disappointed with the whole program. I've actually joined to use it since my reading has gone up, but am disappointed to find a lot of books I want to buy not in. This is going to make it not very appealing too many authors. IF this was done in fairness for all authors or readers. Doesn't sound right. In fact, all too fishy. Sounds like the spin was definitely to make authors buy the new system. Unless they've got deals lined up with publishers, this program won't last long like this. 

*Steps off soap box*


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## Louise Lintvelt (Jan 10, 2015)

I think I will just have to pour myself a really, really big glass of wine tonight and set about researching my options for going wide. 

The truth be told I did start to finally gain some traction with KU because parents like to borrow kids titles but I only really saw significant borrows and sales for three of my titles.

I think I may leave some of the better sellers up on Amazon for a few months to test the waters and give them an opportunity to fix this MAJOR issue, while I explore my options with my titles that were not performing even though they were in KU.

Apple looks promising if you have a series and go perma free on the first. I went perma free on a title that did not do anything on Amazon a little over a month ago and it has been in the top 10 free downloads ever since I am about to publish book 2 in the series and will report back on sales.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> The children's book market only makes up a tiny fraction of their total revenue, so I am not surprised that they sacrificed us. I only published my first books 3 months ago and it's a total loss.


The children's book market is larger than you think. And don't let poor results discourage you. Although my first book was a hit right out of the gate, it's been difficult to build on that success. Keep working at it, regardless of what Amazon does. As for me, I'll continue publishing children's books even if there isn't any money to be made.



> I always was wary of KU, and when doing several promos with other children's authors on the board, I noticed the KU authors did much better in sales and borrows. I was doubting about doing a wide release with my next book. Now, there is no question I won't. The system is going to need a fix for children's picture books, there's no doubt. Or Amazon has run marketing data that shows people don't join KU for children's books. Not sure. It really does not serve any children's author to put their book in KU now. Not until something is fixed for the illustrations.
> 
> Plus, a 1/2 cent per page? Really? We were trying to make it low ball with our estimates of a penny per page when guessing on other threads. Should just go write some pulp fiction. I mean, at least they got paid by the word. And I think it was much more than that. I'm really disappointed with the whole program. I've actually joined to use it since my reading has gone up, but am disappointed to find a lot of books I want to buy not in. This is going to make it not very appealing too many authors. IF this was done in fairness for all authors or readers. Doesn't sound right. In fact, all too fishy. Sounds like the spin was definitely to make authors buy the new system. Unless they've got deals lined up with publishers, this program won't last long like this.


I've always been wary of Amazon, and took advantage of the opportunities when I could, knowing that they would figure out a way to undercut me at some point.

But this is tragic.

An overnight reduction of 70-90% of earnings? In turn, this is going to earn them some very bad press.

Honestly this seems like a KU-killer. While they may do better initially with fewer, longer works, the catalogs of Oyster, and to a lesser extent, Scribd, will be much more diverse. We'll see.



> I think I will just have to pour myself a really, really big glass of wine tonight and set about researching my options for going wide.
> 
> The truth be told I did start to finally gain some traction with KU because parents like to borrow kids titles but I only really saw significant borrows and sales for three of my titles.
> 
> ...


Part of the problem is our dependency on Amazon. There are a lot more opportunities out there, though it may take some time to establish ourselves. Up until now, KDP Select/KU has been the best game in town for new children's book authors, even though the borrow rate was a bit underwhelming. Now it absolutely stinks, so there's no choice, really. We're forced to go wide.

I was thinking about leaving my popular titles in as well, but I may pull everything this weekend and cancel my BookBub promo. It's nice having the power to forge my own future.

Regarding Apple, they can be a bit of a pain sometimes, which is why most authors don't deal with them directly. (I do.) One thing they're not keen on is having text embedded into the images, so you may have to rework your books. I'm guilty of this too, so I have a lot of work to do. But in light of the new payout structure, I'll do it with pride.

Apple also doesn't like broken links. (Don't worry, they'll tell you to fix your book(s) when they run a periodic scan of all published content in their system, not just self-published content.) And don't even think of including a link to a different vendor such as Amazon. That's a big no-no, and they'll let you know immediately.

Benefits with going direct with Apple include a true 70% royalty regardless of price, better support of EPUB 3, proprietary support of iBooks Author (free software!), ability to set your price to $0.00 in some, all, or customized countries, etc. You do need a Mac, though, or at least someone with a Mac, and the ability to create valid EPUB 2 or EPUB 3 documents. Yes, it's a lot of extra stuff to learn, but it's been worth it for me.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

does anyone have experience in creating fixed format epub3 files?

I spent hours trying out every PC software I could find, except for the ones which charge 99$ per produced book. None of them worked properly and the books looked completely wrong in the ebook viewer.

I don't have a Mac, so I can't use Ibooks author for now.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> does anyone have experience in creating fixed format epub3 files?
> 
> I spent hours trying out every PC software I could find, except for the ones which charge 99$ per produced book. None of them worked properly and the books looked completely wrong in the ebook viewer.
> 
> I don't have a Mac, so I can't use Ibooks author for now.


Specifically what features do you need?

(BTW, I code all of my e-books myself. That's how I create my MOBI and EPUB files.)


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Specifically what features do you need?
> 
> (BTW, I code all of my e-books myself. That's how I create my MOBI and EPUB files.)


Actually my needs are quite simple. The text is on the left side inside a textbox with a white background. On the right side there is an illustration. The textbox would sometimes cover an unimportant part of the illustration, depending on how much text there is.

An option to magnify the text would be useful.

I found a tutorial to create the epub3 file myself, but it was overwhelming and the accompanying book had over 200 pages if I remember correctly.

thank you for your help


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## ziertz (May 16, 2014)

Roman said:


> does anyone have experience in creating fixed format epub3 files?
> 
> I spent hours trying out every PC software I could find, except for the ones which charge 99$ per produced book. None of them worked properly and the books looked completely wrong in the ebook viewer.
> 
> I don't have a Mac, so I can't use Ibooks author for now.


I use pageplus on a windows pc.
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/

For an example of the output, check this book.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TP32VPA


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## RyanAndrewKinder (Dec 14, 2014)

I said this in another thread but feel it bears repeating here: I think Amazon didn't consider anything but fictional novels in this new model. Most of the people I know who subscribed to KU did so with the intent to read cook books, skill books, childrens books, howto books, etc. to their hearts content. Things you could easily rack up a big bill for if you were purchasing outright, rather than the longform stuff. The amount of people that read more than a novel a month are dwindling as we become a more distracted society.

I have a writing skill category book that is normalized to 170 pages. It is not a book that you sit down and shotgun in a day or even a month. So while the system is indeed fairer for novelists, it could have the unintended effect of making kindle unlimited devoid of the book types I mentioned. Only time will tell if that's a mistake.

In regards to children's books... this new system would only be good if you get paid for each page read, regardless if it's a reread by the same customer. Kids love hearing some of the same books over and over. This would make it more desirable to be in KU.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

ziertz said:


> I use pageplus on a windows pc.
> http://www.serif.com/pageplus/
> 
> For an example of the output, check this book.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TP32VPA


thank you. I actually tried out Pageplus and the result wasn't good in the Kindle previewer. I should give it another shot.

Just now I tried a free software called "Book Creator" and the book looked totally different in Moon Reader for Android. This is still quite a mystery to me.


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## ziertz (May 16, 2014)

Roman said:


> thank you. I actually tried out Pageplus and the result wasn't good in the Kindle previewer. I should give it another shot.
> 
> Just now I tried a free software called "Book Creator" and the book looked totally different in Moon Reader for Android. This is still quite a mystery to me.


I can look up the exact setting that I used to make that book look good on the Kindle previewer when I get home. Even on the Look Inside view of that book, it doesn't look the same that it appears on my kindle viewer on my tablet. The font looks blurred for some reason on the Look Inside feature.


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## 4eyesbooks (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm looking into Draft 2 Digital which you can upload one Word file with your images and they will convert to an ebook for you (.EPUB, .MOBI and >PDF).  They distribute your book to: 

iBooks
Barnes & Noble
Kobo
Page Foundry
Scribd
Tolino
and CreateSpace

You can choose which stores to distribute to and you can also list your book(s) for free.  Currently I embed my text in my images, but I can easily change that and create a Word file for upload.  They also have one login and you can see your sales across all channels.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Draft2Digital is excellent. Much better than Smashwords. Use it!


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

For those who want to expand to iBooks directly but don't have a Mac, check out macincloud.com. You can "rent" a Mac for $1 an hour. If you think you'll need more than 20 hours within a month, you can go with the $20/month plan.

I have not done this myself but plan to try it in the next week or so, if my old, flaky Mac doesn't boot up (or if I'm too lazy to hook it up to a monitor, etc.). Since my children's book is out of Kindle jail, I don't want to miss out on the potential market of Apple customers.



RyanAndrewKinder said:


> I said this in another thread but feel it bears repeating here: I think Amazon didn't consider anything but fictional novels in this new model.


Yep, as I mentioned elsewhere, maybe they should rename it to Fiction Unlimited. Somehow, FU seems apt. I dropped KU with no regrets at the end of the free trial because books I wanted to borrow were never available in KU. I expect the limited nature of the Kindle "Unlimited" offering to become much worse now.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

Crenel said:


> For those who want to expand to iBooks directly but don't have a Mac, check out macincloud.com. You can "rent" a Mac for $1 an hour. If you think you'll need more than 20 hours within a month, you can go with the $20/month plan.
> 
> I have not done this myself but plan to try it in the next week or so, if my old, flaky Mac doesn't boot up (or if I'm too lazy to hook it up to a monitor, etc.). Since my children's book is out of Kindle jail, I don't want to miss out on the potential market of Apple customers.
> 
> Yep, as I mentioned elsewhere, maybe they should rename it to Fiction Unlimited. Somehow, FU seems apt. I dropped KU with no regrets at the end of the free trial because books I wanted to borrow were never available in KU. I expect the limited nature of the Kindle "Unlimited" offering to become much worse now.


I discovered macincloud earlier and will probably also try it. The 20$ a month plan only includes 3 hours per day. But there is also another provider available with a cheaper unlimited monthly plan: http://www.virtualmacosx.com/?view=featured

The 1$ per hour plan sounds good enough though.

I still need to figure out if I can upload an iBooks file to Draft2digital and if there would be difficulties to upload my file directly to iTunes as a European.

I think that I will give up on trying to distribute a fixed layout epub3 book since too many reading apps don't display them properly. I'll do it the easier way and convert a word file. The layout won't be as pretty, but at least it will be consistent.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I just unchecked the auto-renew for my books into KU/Select. They'll all come out of Select by the end of the summer - I figure I'll give the new system the next few months to see how it works. (I suspect for me poorly)

I'm too busy this summer to even think about going wide, but I'm in the middle of the last book of a trilogy (it went to my editor today), so probably when that book is ready to publish, I'll pull my books out of KU and go wide with them all at once, and hope to build up some sort of momentum by Christmas with advertising campaigns during the fall.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I think that I will give up on trying to distribute a fixed layout epub3 book since too many reading apps don't display them properly. I'll do it the easier way and convert a word file. The layout won't be as pretty, but at least it will be consistent.


I should have mentioned this. If you want to really take advantage of the features of EPUB 3, you need to go the Apple route. No one else has their act together on EPUB 3 like they do, but this will change in the future.


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## JD Holiday (Jan 16, 2015)

I agree with everything said. I don't have any ideas either. WISH I did!
Sorry.
JD 

[br][size=8pt](Make your own reading bar)


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Will y'all be leaving your books on Amazon and just getting out of Select?


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## Louise Lintvelt (Jan 10, 2015)

cinisajoy said:


> Will y'all be leaving your books on Amazon and just getting out of Select?


If the royalty really is in the order of 10cents per borrow for a kids book, then I would definitely consider still selling on Amazon but opting out of select. At that rate per page I am better of dropping my price to 99cents (which I always said I would never do because I feel my book are worth more) and opting out of select.

At any rate the 99cents price point may help to gain traction elsewhere and the overall royalty would still be higher than KU at the rates currently indicated for kids books.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> At any rate the 99cents price point may help to gain traction elsewhere and the overall royalty would still be higher than KU at the rates currently indicated for kids books.


Definitely experiment, but don't be surprised if you do better or the same at $2.99.

$2.99 for individual works and $4.99 for collections is my strategy moving forward. Whether or not it's a successful strategy remains to be seen...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Louise Lintvelt said:


> If the royalty really is in the order of 10cents per borrow for a kids book, then I would definitely consider still selling on Amazon but opting out of select. At that rate per page I am better of dropping my price to 99cents (which I always said I would never do because I feel my book are worth more) and opting out of select.
> 
> At any rate the 99cents price point may help to gain traction elsewhere and the overall royalty would still be higher than KU at the rates currently indicated for kids books.


I was just asking will I still be able to BUY your books on Amazon?


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2015)

Coming back to this topic, after a long holiday, has made me think. I have to say I think it`s very patronising, some of the attitudes that I have seen, toward anyone who writes anything but novels. A novel takes what...3-6 months to craft ( if your good )?  A picture book can take JUST as long and sometimes more. So why am I getting penalized when my art is just as time consuming as a 200 page novel? I write ALL of my stories, I do ALL the art...and because I do not want to release trash, I am very picky. I was due to release via KU the end of this month. 3 books done. May have to stay out. Just try to sell. I have to say in conclusion, I think writing in this genre is done. Unless you can get a good trad deal and even then it`s a non-starter money wise. Time to write another dystopian 300 page novel then...


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## Louise Lintvelt (Jan 10, 2015)

cinisajoy said:


> I was just asking will I still be able to BUY your books on Amazon?


Hi, Cin, sorry if my post was unclear, yes my books would still be available for purchase


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Coming back to this topic, after a long holiday, has made me think. I have to say I think it`s very patronising, some of the attitudes that I have seen, toward anyone who writes anything but novels. A novel takes what...3-6 months to craft ( if your good )? A picture book can take JUST as long and sometimes more. So why am I getting penalized when my art is just as time consuming as a 200 page novel? I write ALL of my stories, I do ALL the art...and because I do not want to release trash, I am very picky. I was due to release via KU the end of this month. 3 books done. May have to stay out. Just try to sell. I have to say in conclusion, I think writing in this genre is done. Unless you can get a good trad deal and even then it`s a non-starter money wise. Time to write another dystopian 300 page novel then...


Very impressive that you also do your own art.

I've written a bunch of stuff--some would say junk--that I was absolutely passionate about. I was writing for pleasure, and if I made a few bucks at it, even better.

With these changes, I'll also have to return to the 300+ page fantasy novel that I had once planned. I'm also passionate about that project; I just preferred to write shorter.

Oh well. Roll with it if you can.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Everything is just guesstimates at the moment. I think it would be prudent to wait to see what the ACTUAL payout will be before making any quick decisions  .


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Everything is just guesstimates at the moment. I think it would be prudent to wait to see what the ACTUAL payout will be before making any quick decisions .


I had 679 page reads yesterday and another 433 today. If I go by a conservative estimate of 1 penny/page and an average of 700 pages/day, my borrows will net me $210 for the entire month rather than 25 borrows/day at $1.30 per borrow ($975). It's fair to say I'll see a decrease of 80% if the borrow rate reaches 1 penny/page or 50-60% if it's 2 pennies per page. To break even, I'd need the rate to be over 4 cents per page, and that's not going to happen.

Amazon gave us the numbers on purpose so that we'd do the math and come to our own conclusions. It's quite a brilliant strategy, actually, and I'm sure many left in droves once they figured out the borrow rate would be less than a penny.

It's pretty clear what's going on. You're more than welcome to examine the corpse on your way out.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh I just want to give one word of advice. 
If you pull out of Select,  make it VERY CLEAR to your readers they can still find your books on Amazon. 

I know one that left Select and some of her readers thought she was leaving Amazon.


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## 4eyesbooks (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm getting my ducks in a row in anticipation of moving out of KDP Select and going wide.  Not doing anything with my titles yet.  I want to see my pages read for a week or maybe a month and then I'll pull the trigger.  I really don't have a good feeling about this so I want to be prepared.  Nov - Jan are my biggest months and if I need to broaden my horizons before I do a big Bookbub promo before prime buying season I want to be ready.  I will still leave my ebook and paperbacks on Amazon, but staying exclusive doesn't appear to be smart for our genre.  Not making any drastic moves yet, but always be prepared as the boy scouts say!


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## Weibart (Oct 27, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Thanks for the insight, Weibart. I appreciate you taking the time and would be happy to help promote your work.


Thank you very much for the support, I really appreciate it! And likewise, I'd love to help promote your work in any way that I can! I'll be in touch!


4eyesbooks said:


> I'm looking into Draft 2 Digital which you can upload one Word file with your images and they will convert to an ebook for you (.EPUB, .MOBI and >PDF).


I'm definitely going to look into Draft 2 Digital. I listened to a discussion on, I think it might've been the Self-Publishing podcast, where they discussed Draft 2 Digital in detail and it sounds like an option that's very much worth looking into.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Will y'all be leaving your books on Amazon and just getting out of Select?


That's my plan, even though it means marginally less visibility on Amazon. That used to be helpful, now it's so trivial that I don't feel I'm losing much.

You make a good point about being clear regarding what change we are making. There's plenty of confusion out there, even among writers. For readers, it's best to spin this as "my books are now available at..." rather than "my books won't be available via..." -- other than KU subscribers, the extra availability is all that matters to readers anyway.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

I'll be keeping all of my books for sale on Amazon, and even keeping some in Select (for how long, I don't know yet)

I was absolutely gutted when I saw the KENPC on my books, so I wrote a quick email to support asking them if perhaps there had been a mistake in the calculations. The response I got is as follows (emphasis added is mine):



> I can confirm that the Kindle Edition Normalized Page Count (KENPC) of your books is correct.
> 
> We calculate KENPC based on standard settings (e.g. font, line height, line spacing, etc.) to measure the number of pages customers read in your book, from the Start Reading Location (SRL) to the end of your book. This standardized approach allows us to identify pages in a way that works across genres and devices.
> 
> ...


I think the key here is that we need to make enough noise to encourage a change. I urge all of you to politely contact KDP support asking them to confirm your KENPC, pointing out that it seems unfair for children's books.

While nothing may come of it, it can't hurt to ask.


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## 4eyesbooks (Jan 9, 2012)

Good point dcswain.  Email is on the way!


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## ziertz (May 16, 2014)

Roman said:


> thank you. I actually tried out Pageplus and the result wasn't good in the Kindle previewer. I should give it another shot.


Hi,

This is how I start a new publication in PagePlus
Click File -> Startup Assistant
Then scroll down until you find ePublications. Then find the Amazon section and select Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 Single Page.
Then when building your epub or mobi file, just make sure that EPUB3 Fixed Layout is selected.

Let me know if you have any further questions.


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## ccasey (Feb 7, 2013)

It seems strange that they would invest the time and effort in to attracting children's book authors with KKBC the way they do and then not make it worthwhile to put our children's books in Select.

The fixed-format picture book I uploaded a few years ago (with the help of a kindle book Formatting Comics for Kindle and Nook) is showing to be 16 page-reads. The interactive picture book I made on KKBC this year shows as 1 page-read. Surely hitting their KKBC authors that hard isn't something they anticipated. They need to know; and not just the workers who immediately reply with a canned response of "too bad, so sad." Keep trying till you get a thinker to respond.

I'm just as happy to explore all the other places though. I had never heard of imaccloud or virtual mac before this thread. Grateful for all the insight.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

Who is [email protected]? Someone suggested to write him.

The problem is that it won't be worthwhile, even if they fix their KENPC calculation for children's books. Getting paid a half cent for a book or 12 cents, money wise there is no real difference. They said that they want to make the system fair for everyone though, so there is hope at least.

For a laugh check out the quotes from children's book writers on the KKBC website: https://kdp.amazon.com/kids

Would anyone be able to get in touch with one of the reporters who reported about the KKBC? My English isn't that great, so I hesitate to do it myself.

http://www.latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-amazon-launches-childrens-e-book-tool-for-selfpublished-authors-20140904-story.html


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

My books will be available as usual in Select, which includes KU.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Roman said:


> Who is [email protected]? Someone suggested to write him.
> 
> The problem is that it won't be worthwhile, even if they fix their KENPC calculation for children's books. Getting paid a half cent for a book or 12 cents, money wise there is no real difference. They said that they want to make the system fair for everyone though, so there is hope at least.
> 
> ...


He's Amazon's founder and CEO.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Anyone else notice that the Dashboard says "KU/KOLL Units or KENP Read?" It looks like they're still paying out traditional borrows for Prime subscribers.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Anyone else notice that the Dashboard says "KU/KOLL Units or KENP Read?" It looks like they're still paying out traditional borrows for Prime subscribers.


I asked this question on another thread then someone replied with the quote from KDP that all borrows will be pay by page. I guess we'll just have to wait and see .


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

which software do you use to create reflowable ebooks for children?

I haven't translated my books into English yet. Do you think that I  need to use the free days to get my books started in the USA or are promotions like bknights, bookbub enough?

In the German and French markets there are much less opportunities to promote an ebook, so I am pretty much forced to stick with free days there. 3 days after a campaign I usually start seeing an increase in sales which lasts two to three weeks. Maybe that's the wrong strategy though.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> which software do you use to create reflowable ebooks for children?
> 
> I haven't translated my books into English yet. Do you think that I need to use the free days to get my books started in the USA or are promotions like bknights, bookbub enough?
> 
> In the German and French markets there are much less opportunities to promote an ebook, so I am pretty much forced to stick with free days there. 3 days after a campaign I usually start seeing an increase in sales which lasts two to three weeks. Maybe that's the wrong strategy though.


I've actually developed my own software, but before that, I was using Adobe Dreamweaver and coding everything myself. Scrivener would be an excellent choice, since it can render EPUBs and MOBIs for you.

I'd start there.

As for promotions, using the free days in KDP Select/KU is a great way for a new author to introduce themselves to the world. If you can get a BookBub ad, even better. That should earn you a Top 20 spot in the free store before it converts over to paid.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Roman said:


> which software do you use to create reflowable ebooks for children?


You can use Sigil to create an EPUB. Open that EPUB in the Kindle Previewer software and it will generate a MOBI (for upload to KDP) and also let you preview the MOBI using a few different device emulations, both tablet and e-ink. An added benefit of this workflow is that the EPUB is usable on many other platforms beyond the Kindle. And Sigil is free.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> You can use Sigil to create an EPUB. Open that EPUB in the Kindle Previewer software and it will generate a MOBI (for upload to KDP) and also let you preview the MOBI using a few different device emulations, both tablet and e-ink. An added benefit of this workflow is that the EPUB is usable on many other platforms beyond the Kindle. And Sigil is free.


I used Sigil early on, and though it helped me understand the underlying structure of EPUB archives, I grew to hate it. Eventually I moved over to Dreamweaver, and then developed my own tools. But it's still useful, and most importantly, free, so I can't criticize it too much. Just make sure to validate your documents with IDPF's service, and don't rely on FlightDeck which is built into Sigil.

As for me, I've decided to take the leap and purchase a web hosting package from Host Gator. Over the next few months, I'm going to take the command line tools I've developed and rewrite them for the web. Children's e-book rendering tools will be built into it, and enable authors to better control their work. The domain will be halcyon-books.com, which isn't visible yet (the DNS servers need a few hours to propagate). Once I've migrated over the tools, I'll open it up to a select few authors for testing. Hopefully this will take away much of the pain associated with going wide.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

did anyone compare the KENPC of a fixed layout vs a reflowable layout book?

Looking at the money I make right now from Amazon I think that my only option is to go wide and to forget about the French and German markets. Receiving 15 cents for a borrow feels like an insult and I would need 12 borrows to earn the same as I do with one sale.


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## Ros_Jackson (Jan 11, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I can only tell you from my own personal experience which vendors pay the best. Amazon is still king, at least for the time being, but I've found surprising success in Kobo, of all places (and they don't have a delivery charge).


Kobo has a Kids account feature that they introduced in 2013 and rolled out to the UK last year. I found it really easy to set one up and add a spending allowance, so this might account for your good results there.

https://www.kobo.com/kidstore?style=onestore


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

I'm surprised they don't do something for ya'll. I'm an erotica writer and it doesn't surprise me at all they wanted us out. For one thing we got a large portion of the borrows, so we were expensive. For another, they've always liked to hide us when they can. But persecuting children's books just doesn't jive with the family friendly image they try so hard to project.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

monamorabooks said:


> I emailed [email protected] and let him know I was pulling out my entire catalog and cancelling my KU subscription.


I wondered about the fact that a lot of authors were actually subscribers to KU. I know their titles have gone way down, but I'd be curious to know how much the subscriber numbers have dropped. In my opinion KU was never that appealing as a reader unless you only read the trad pub authors they offer. Otherwise, indies hop in and out on a regular basis. Imagine being one of those HM Ward fans that got halfway through the series and suddenly found they'd have to pay for the rest. I saw quite a few reviews where people were really angry about that. The KU catalog is just not reliable. You sign up seeing your favorites authors in there and before you even have a chance to borrow the book she's gone.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Kobo has a Kids account feature that they introduced in 2013 and rolled out to the UK last year. I found it really easy to set one up and add a spending allowance, so this might account for your good results there.
> 
> https://www.kobo.com/kidstore?style=onestore


Thanks for posting this.


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## Maarika (Apr 19, 2015)

I haven't published on Amazon yet but being in Select was out of the question since my graphic novels are really short and Amazon attaches a large delivery fee on them anyway. Due to the file sizes, I also can't price my books as low as I want which means to get the desired pricing, I HAVE to go wide and rely on price matching. I'm not familiar with how the lending system works exactly but I can't see any benefit in being exclusive with Amazon as far as my books go.



katrina46 said:


> I wondered about the fact that a lot of authors were actually subscribers to KU. I know their titles have gone way down, but I'd be curious to know how much the subscriber numbers have dropped. In my opinion KU was never that appealing as a reader unless you only read the trad pub authors they offer. Otherwise, indies hop in and out on a regular basis. Imagine being one of those HM Ward fans that got halfway through the series and suddenly found they'd have to pay for the rest. I saw quite a few reviews where people were really angry about that. The KU catalog is just not reliable. You sign up seeing your favorites authors in there and before you even have a chance to borrow the book she's gone.


It didn't occur to me that having books in and out of KU can be annoying for readers, thanks for sharing that.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Maarika said:


> It didn't occur to me that having books in and out of KU can be annoying for readers, thanks for sharing that.


I thought that as well so, contrary to my post above, I've pulled the plug on all remaining Select books and gone wide (GP and D2D except iTunes). I'm going to go with permafree first in series with the rest full priced.

I am still figuring out iTunes and how to best deal with getting fixed format epubs on there. Will read through the thoughts above and go from there.

If Amazon do make changes to lure kids book authors back, I'll consider it, but for now it's about trying to build a wider readership.

Good luck to those staying in - we each have to make our own choices and hopefully there'll be some light at the end of the tunnel


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I thought that as well so, contrary to my post above, I've pulled the plug on all remaining Select books and gone wide (GP and D2D except iTunes). I'm going to go with permafree first in series with the rest full priced.
> 
> I am still figuring out iTunes and how to best deal with getting fixed format epubs on there. Will read through the thoughts above and go from there.
> 
> ...


Congrats. You're worth more.


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## Louise Lintvelt (Jan 10, 2015)

dcswain said:


> I thought that as well so, contrary to my post above, I've pulled the plug on all remaining Select books and gone wide (GP and D2D except iTunes).


I have just initiated the same process for all titles, even on my better selling titles the math indicates that I would need 13cents per page to equal a sale and more shockingly the total months borrows to date on one of my titles would require exactly 2.5 sales to equal what I have earned in borrows using the current guestimate of 0.5cents a page.

Scott said it perfectly - My books are worth more.

I did e-mail KDP support and got a similar response to Angela Muse, so I am not going to be hopeful that there will be any page length adjustment for kids books, which makes sense to me from a KU perspective if you consider the number of authors publishing huge volumes of non-fixed layout titles (that are estimated as longer than fixed layout) priced at 99cents and would only get 20cents -30cents royalty for a sale who were getting around $1.35 per borrow. They are now more likely to get 10cents - 20cents depending on book length.

I am going to try and exploit the fact that my books have beautiful illustrations, a great story, fixed layout and pop-up text features with narration/songs/sound effects in the Apple store and see what happens. It may not work out, but I am willing to give it a try.

Best of luck to everyone!


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> It may not work out, but I am willing to give it a try.


It's a very sad time. The best we can do right now is learn more about the big picture, experiment, and try to maximize revenue. Getting BookBub placement may be more difficult, but at least we can promote across all channels and establish our names there. Distribution is now a larger commitment than before, but the biggest names in literature can be found in all major venues. While there might be fewer new releases for us in the next few months, hopefully we're building a stronger foundation where our income doesn't ride on the whims of one company (and perhaps, to an extent, we've been allowing them to subsidize our work and are finally taking the training wheels off, for better or worse).

I think what makes me most mad is how the Amazon rep strung Angela Muse along, telling her that they might do multipliers for pages with illustrations. Since none of us knew for sure, all we could do was wait. Now that the program has been unveiled and we have a better idea of what the borrow rate will be, it's pretty obvious that those multipliers wouldn't have made much of a difference if they had decided to follow through with it. But it appears they had no intention of doing so. They just wanted to placate us while they got the new system up and running.

Currently, most of my titles are still in the program, but a few are coming out every day. With 215 titles and a full time job, I simply don't have the time to migrate my entire catalog all at once. Eventually they will come out, every last one of them.

I reject the pay per page model. I am worth more.


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## Jim Bradley (Jul 3, 2015)

Sadly the truth is, they won't do anything for us children's authors. Why? They've been blowing the "fairness" horn with this new system and saying everyone gets what they deserve on a per page basis. If they give special treatment to children's authors then the short erotica authors will raise hell saying that the new system is biased towards certain genres. Amazon couldn't deny that, it would be completely obvious to the press, and they'd get hammered even worse than they already have.

From Amazon perspective, the previous system was not sustainable as a business. It was, however, a little more fair. Yes the longer works weren't getting the mass pay they think they deserve on a borrow, but come on , anyone who thinks their longer work is somewhat more special than shorter work needs to realize THEY made the choice to produce long work, and it's like comparing an abstract work of art to something that is more classical. Neither is better than the other.

Yes some were abusing the system, but as it stands now, every single short piece, including romance, children's books, non fiction, you name it have had their exclusivity cut from 1.3x to probably around 10 cents or so. If that's what Amazon thinks we are worth, they are delusional. No one with a sane mind is going to accept a few pennies just to have Amazon have exclusive rights to their book. I pulled out and while I am struggling really bad going wide, I believe I will succeed eventually. I just don't care about making an extra .50c to a buck a day from the page reads.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Stumbled across this today:

https://www.getepic.com/

I suspect it's only a matter of time before Amazon launches its own children's book subscription service. It would go hand-in-hand with the children's Kindles that were unveiled (if memory serves me correctly) last year.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Stumbled across this today:
> 
> https://www.getepic.com/
> 
> I suspect it's only a matter of time before Amazon launches its own children's book subscription service. It would go hand-in-hand with the children's Kindles that were unveiled (if memory serves me correctly) last year.


Looks interesting. How do you get your books listed?


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Looks interesting. How do you get your books listed?


It looks like an interesting service, but I would guess the answer to your question at this point is: You don't.

[quote author=getepic.com FAQ]Epic! is partnered with leading publishers including HarperCollins and National Geographic....[/quote]

Does not strike me as being open to indie/self-pub authors.

ETA: Correction - their FAQ is a bit funky. After posting the above, I found:



> Please email [email protected] and someone from our content team will be in touch with you.


Worth a try!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

If anyone gets picked please report back


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2015)

I`m back. This has spiked my hope that Kindle MAY have something up it`s sleeve. Let`s hope.  Meanwhile I will just develop my portfolio and adapt when/if changes come.


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## NoBlackHats (Oct 17, 2012)

As a parent, I vow not to use KU for children's books.  I will buy the books instead.

So sorry this new system is rotten for children's  authors.  I appreciate and admire your work!  You give beautiful worlds to my children.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

I installed the Epic app and it is amazing. What a shame that the English level is too advanced for my children, but I will surely let them play around with the app. The first month is for free and it's worth a try.

I just found out that Amazon already has a subscription plan for children and I somehow doubt that they will accept books from self publishers: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?&docId=1000863021


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

In search of a new strategy? Consider what this guy did:

https://hellowebapp.com/news/how-i-launched-my-learn-to-code-book-and-made-nearly-5000-in-pre-orders

(Kickstarter + Gumroad + Amazon)


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

I watched a video about the Kindle Free Time program and I remarked that kids are able to download selfpublished titles which were listed through Books on Demand (a site similar to D2D).

Is anyone able to verify if our kid's books which we published directly also show up?


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Update: I've submitted a dozen or so titles over the past week to Apple and haven't run into problems involving embedded text in images. Just be aware that this is something that Apple flagged in the past.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

To my surprise my print books started to sell quite well in July in Europe. So that's at something positive after the Amazon disaster.

I am currently preparing to go wide and wonder if any of you who started to sell outside of Amazon have received some positive results already?


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## Talbot (Jul 14, 2015)

I have a tiny book ready to go wide but I was told (by Smashwords!) that Smashwords wasn't that great with illustrations. I'll have to give it a try anyway.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

jessie_talbot said:


> I have a tiny book ready to go wide but I was told (by Smashwords!) that Smashwords wasn't that great with illustrations. I'll have to give it a try anyway.


I could see that if you're using their conversion from Word, which (in general) is a bad idea for publishing e-books of any kind and could definitely provide sub-par results with a children's book. If you're uploading an ePUB, though, it shouldn't make a difference as long as they don't modify the file -- and I'm pretty sure they don't, although it's certainly possible.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Roman said:


> To my surprise my print books started to sell quite well in July in Europe. So that's at something positive after the Amazon disaster.
> 
> I am currently preparing to go wide and wonder if any of you who started to sell outside of Amazon have received some positive results already?


It takes time to build results when going wide (and that certainly seems true irrespective of genre), but I am starting to see a trickle of sales at GooglePlay.

I bought myself a mac and am now going direct to iTunes and am seeing a couple of sales there too. The other markets (via D2D) are still quiet, but I've found that July-August are slow for me (they were for the last 2 years at least). I've probably only got 1/2 my backlist wide so far and am working on finishing distribution before starting an advertising push on some permafrees in early September.

If you're going with GooglePlay, don't forget to check our TK's post on it (search for TK's GP post and it should come up) to make sure you set your prices high enough to account for their automatic discounting.

If anyone is having trouble with formatting ePubs (fixed format) for wide distribution, I can recommend Nick Marsden (he's in the KB Yellow Pages). Very quick and very reasonably priced.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok, I finally pulled the trigger and submitted a list of all of my remaining titles in KDP Select, some 105 titles. I'm not sure how prompt they'll be, but I'll hold off putting up these titles in other vendors until I can verify that they are out.

It's nice to have complete control of my catalog again. I'm learning a lot and I've already seen a trickle of sales here and there. The real challenge is getting all 218 of my titles up on all major vendors. So far only about 30 titles are up in Apple, 100 in Kobo, 30 in Draft2Digital, etc. Ugh! I've got a ways to go. Perhaps I'll have it all up by Christmas. Perhaps...


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Ok, I finally pulled the trigger and submitted a list of all of my remaining titles in KDP Select, some 105 titles. I'm not sure how prompt they'll be, but I'll hold off putting up these titles in other vendors until I can verify that they are out.
> 
> It's nice to have complete control of my catalog again. I'm learning a lot and I've already seen a trickle of sales here and there. The real challenge is getting all 218 of my titles up on all major vendors. So far only about 30 titles are up in Apple, 100 in Kobo, 30 in Draft2Digital, etc. Ugh! I've got a ways to go. Perhaps I'll have it all up by Christmas. Perhaps...


Scott, I'll be interested to hear how this goes for you. On another note, I'd be curious as hell if you ever did a post about what your strategy has been in more detail. And hell, you may not want to and I completely understand....but if you want to, I know I'd be very interested in what I could learn from you. And I think there's a lot more children's authors who would be really interested as well.

Thanks!

Dan


----------



## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Crenel said:


> It looks like an interesting service, but I would guess the answer to your question at this point is: You don't.
> 
> Does not strike me as being open to indie/self-pub authors.
> 
> ...


Has anyone had any luck with Getepic? Sounds interesting. I'd love to have my MG books included.


----------



## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

I'm thinking about putting my new books in Kindle Unlimited again. I tossed 30 titles on the other vendors last month, with 6 free ones, and sales are basically nonexistent. 1,300 free downloads and $60 paid downloads.

It sucks because without KU my earnings have dropped by 75%. I keep doing the math and it still sucks. I'd need 3x the borrows just to return to my old income. Before you could make a decent living with 2,000 borrows and some sales. Now you NEED crazy numbers. Recently someone, I think Wayne, posted a thread that said he had 500,000 pages read. That's an amazing number, but when you do the math it's only $2,900!  

Also I'm getting 1 star reviews for removing my books. Permafree is a joke now, readers are too busy browsing KU's offerings. I'm about to give up...on children's books.


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Has anyone had any luck with Getepic? Sounds interesting. I'd love to have my MG books included.


E-mail sent.



> Scott, I'll be interested to hear how this goes for you. On another note, I'd be curious as hell if you ever did a post about what your strategy has been in more detail. And hell, you may not want to and I completely understand....but if you want to, I know I'd be very interested in what I could learn from you. And I think there's a lot more children's authors who would be really interested as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan


The market has changed, so I'm not sure how useful my advice is anymore. In fact, it feels like I'm starting over again, and will have to learn the ins and outs of multiple markets to make the same money that I once did.

I like what I'm seeing with Apple and Kobo. I've also heard Google Play is a good source of revenue, so I have another dozen titles there now and growing.

All I can say is that I'm committed to wide distribution, will continue to use BookBub to gain exposure to new customers, and will put more emphasis on building my mailing list, engaging readers through my blog, and getting new releases onto as many platforms as possible. First, there is the Herculean task of putting all of my titles in every single store. Then there are a ton of books that I've been dragging my feet on that need to get finished.

In short, hard work will win the day, but I'm just beginning to scale the mountain.

The rewards likely won't be immediate, but I'm committed to the long game. And I can no longer afford the roller coaster ride that is KDP Select. I may put a few new titles in there to stay abreast of the changes, but I'm interested in selling books, not lending books. (And besides, Oyster and Scribd's models seem to be the fairest out there since they compensate you on the list price, which is all authors wanted in the first place, not a sliding scale whack-a-mole lottery payout.


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I'm thinking about putting my new books in Kindle Unlimited again. I tossed 30 titles on the other vendors last month, with 6 free ones, and sales are basically nonexistent. 1,300 free downloads and $60 paid downloads.
> 
> It sucks because without KU my earnings have dropped by 75%. I keep doing the math and it still sucks. I'd need 3x the borrows just to return to my old income. Before you could make a decent living with 2,000 borrows and some sales. Now you NEED crazy numbers.
> 
> Also I'm getting 1 star reviews for removing my books. Permafree is a joke now, readers are too busy browsing KU's offerings. I'm about to give up...on children's books.


You're going to have to tinker around until you find the sweet spot. Perhaps you'll do better going all in with KU rather than wide. Everyone's catalog is different, and without knowing yours, I can only suggest that you keep trying until you find the right combination.

You should also be willing to sacrifice a few months of earnings so that you can give yourself a chance to get established in the other markets. My earnings are currently down at least 80% from the month before, so there's really no choice. I need to make wide distribution work. But I've been here before and distributed my books wide before realizing there was a better deal in going exclusive with Amazon and KU 1.0.

Now that I'm back to wide distribution, I realize that I didn't do a very good job the last time. My books were primarily in Kobo and Barnes & Noble, very little was in Apple, and none was in Google. I also wasn't taking advantage of some of the smaller offerings and wasn't using BookBub at all. I've read about other authors finding success with a wide distribution + BookBub promotions and want to be one of those people. I'm committed to finding a way to make it work.

Right now, I'm speculating that I'll make somewhere around $200 off borrows for July. It's utterly horrible, I know, especially since I've made thousands before. I had one month in Kobo where I made between $200-$300, so I know that I can do better than that. My first goal is to get back to $500 in total earnings and go from there. I've done this before, so I know I can do it again. It's a far cry from the $1,000, $2,000, $3,000+ months I've had recently with KDP Select, but that gravy train is gone. I thank Amazon for it, but it's time to move on and add a little stability in my life.

Also, I've had strange small successes in other stores. My book Aveline sold very poorly in Amazon, but once I widened the distribution to include Kobo, sales took off for a short time. To date, I've sold 240 copies there for a total of $344.05, and that doesn't include any of the additional foreign language translations. Conversely, I'd be lucky if I made $50 in Amazon, all time.

The same goes for My Daddy's Cool Car Collection, another obscure title in my catalog. I've sold 70 copies in Kobo for $95.22, not big numbers to be sure. But this title only sells a copy or two per month in Amazon--35 cents and 70 cents here and there. I've probably equaled that number in Amazon all time, but My Daddy's Cool Car Collection was only wide for a fraction of the time.

What's the biggest difference in each of these cases? The market there inexplicably liked these titles and paid me more per royalty than Amazon. Typically I make more per sale outside of Amazon because of the lack of a delivery charge and a higher royalty payment.

In response to your other comments, permafree is still a great way to bring in steady sales, but you have to choose the right product, and even then, the appeal wanes. I found that out when I set the Italian version of Pigtastic to free. I'm not sure why, but the Italian readers didn't like it. When I switched it back to A Little Book About You, I got immediate sales.

As for reviews, I haven't gotten any 1-stars for leaving the program, but perhaps you're a bigger fish than I am. Those nasty 1-stars should stop after the majority of children's books exit KU and rise in price. The readers will eventually acclimate. And don't worry about the reviews. I've gotten tons of nasty one stars and ignore them. If I let them get to me, I probably wouldn't publish anything again, and you can't be that way.

In the end, I write for my autistic son. I don't care if the world hates me. He loves my work. And apparently, a few other kids do, too.


----------



## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

I just sent an e-mail to Epic as well.  The site says their books are selected by an "advisory board of educators, librarians, parents, literary experts."  So I didn't mention my books, just inquired about author submissions.  When/if I get a reply    I'll report back.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I just sent an e-mail to Epic as well. The site says their books are selected by an "advisory board of educators, librarians, parents, literary experts." So I didn't mention my books, just inquired about author submissions. When/if I get a reply  I'll report back.


I did include a link to my Amazon portfolio, so it will be interesting to see what they say. I suspect they don't deal with indie authors, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Heck, it might even start an internal dialogue as to whether or not to accept indie authors.

We'll see...


----------



## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> You're going to have to tinker around until you find the sweet spot. Perhaps you'll do better going all in with KU rather than wide. Everyone's catalog is different, and without knowing yours, I can only suggest that you keep trying until you find the right combination.
> 
> You should also be willing to sacrifice a few months of earnings so that you can give yourself a chance to get established in the other markets. My earnings are currently down at least 80% from the month before, so there's really no choice. I need to make wide distribution work. But I've been here before and distributed my books wide before realizing there was a better deal in going exclusive with Amazon and KU 1.0.
> 
> ...


Wow, seriously, thanks for the long reply. You brought up some good points. I'll keep trying.


----------



## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Jena H said:


> I just sent an e-mail to Epic as well. The site says their books are selected by an "advisory board of educators, librarians, parents, literary experts." So I didn't mention my books, just inquired about author submissions. When/if I get a reply  I'll report back.


Look forward to their reply.


----------



## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

The market has changed, so I'm not sure how useful my advice is anymore. In fact, it feels like I'm starting over again, and will have to learn the ins and outs of multiple markets to make the same money that I once did.

I like what I'm seeing with Apple and Kobo. I've also heard Google Play is a good source of revenue, so I have another dozen titles there now and growing.

All I can say is that I'm committed to wide distribution, will continue to use BookBub to gain exposure to new customers, and will put more emphasis on building my mailing list, engaging readers through my blog, and getting new releases onto as many platforms as possible. First, there is the Herculean task of putting all of my titles in every single store. Then there are a ton of books that I've been dragging my feet on that need to get finished.

In short, hard work will win the day, but I'm just beginning to scale the mountain.

The rewards likely won't be immediate, but I'm committed to the long game. And I can no longer afford the roller coaster ride that is KDP Select. I may put a few new titles in there to stay abreast of the changes, but I'm interested in selling books, not lending books. (And besides, Oyster and Scribd's models seem to be the fairest out there since they compensate you on the list price, which is all authors wanted in the first place, not a sliding scale whack-a-mole lottery payout.
[/quote]

Thanks Scott and very best of luck as you scale that mountain. Dan.


----------



## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Wow, so I already heard back from someone at Epic.  Sort of surprising on a Saturday.  Anyway, here's what they had to say:

Some general guidelines for signing up with Epic!:

*Minimum 20 titles to start (see note below)
*Appropriate content for ages 2-12
*No religious, political or dogmatic books. Dog books yes, dogmatic books no.
*Foreign language, audiobooks and parenting books are welcome!

If you have under 20 titles please let us know if we may work with your
distributor. We hope to have systems in place in the next year to handle
fewer titles per publisher/author but for now the logistics are too difficult. 

~ ~ ~ ~

Anyway, that "20 titles minimum" thing sort of kills my mojo.  I have three.  Plus, I recommend mine for ages 11-up, so I'm hitting at the top of their age ceiling.


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Wow, so I already heard back from someone at Epic. Sort of surprising on a Saturday. Anyway, here's what they had to say:
> 
> Some general guidelines for signing up with Epic!:
> 
> ...


Great information! Unfortunately I didn't get a response, but the minimum number of titles and age range works in my favor. I'll let you know how they respond.


----------



## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Jena H said:


> Anyway, that "20 titles minimum" thing sort of kills my mojo.


Good info, but yeah, I'm nowhere near that number of titles nor will I ever be. My one children's book is probably the only one I'll ever write; it had a specific inspiration but my typical writing inspiration is oriented toward stories or nonfiction content for older audiences.

Speaking of uniting as children's book authors, it's close to back-to-school time, at least for much of the US. Any interest out there in a collaborative promo effort of some sort? My children's book never sold a lot but it did have fairly steady (if slow) sales until this year, but it's flat-lined now. I'd love something to increase visibility now that I've gone wide with it and KDP Select is no longer a factor for it. The audience for mine is pre-K through K, but a joint effort could have a broader scope, e.g. to encompass all elementary/primary school.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Jena H said:


> Wow, so I already heard back from someone at Epic. Sort of surprising on a Saturday. Anyway, here's what they had to say:
> 
> Some general guidelines for signing up with Epic!:
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I've got four published titles in the right age group. I have written lots more, but I'm thwarted by the illustrations. I can't afford to get them illustrated because I'm not selling enough to anywhere near cover the cost .


----------



## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Crazy thought, but should we put them in contact with D2D? They are a distributor,  are they not?

Rue


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

I just got the rest of my titles pulled from KDP Select. Now the real fun begins...


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I just got the rest of my titles pulled from KDP Select. Now the real fun begins...


good luck! Do you have any special strategy for markets such as Italy and did you pull your books out of Select there?


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> good luck! Do you have any special strategy for markets such as Italy and did you pull your books out of Select there?


Italy has always been an excellent market for me, and I've done ok in most venues as long as they have a presence there. I've been most successful with Kobo, but I've also sold a few copies in amazon.it, Apple, and even Scribd. I have no idea if Narcissus/Streetlib is a viable platform, but am willing to give them a try.

The one I'm most interested in is Apple. There's interest there, a flat 70% royalty across the board if you submit directly to them, no delivery charge, and the possibility of promotion. That's where I want to see the most growth (oh yeah, and there's some seriously cutting edge stuff you can do with EPUB 3 and iBooks Author).

Google Play is also a great unknown for Italian children's books, so I'm curious what I might find there. I've also sold a few copies of foreign language books on Teachers Pay Teachers, which really surprises me.

There are so many different ways to make money with going wide, it's hard to say where the best places are to sell children's books without trying all of them.

Initially my approach will be very basic:

Provide a couple of free books that provoke a good response from the readers. My first two permafrees for the Italian market will be translations of A Little Book About You and Alphabet All-Stars: Be Safe This Halloween.

Next, I need a couple of 99-cent books that readers would be willing to spend their money on. I'm debating this right now.

The rest of the individual titles will be 1,99 Euros, since it's the lowest price I can set while also getting 65-70% from most vendors. I'll also try to keep the collections reasonably priced while also taking into account the VAT.

Last, I need to find somewhere I can advertise my permafrees and 99-cent books that isn't my blog or mailing list. That part I'm also working on while I get the rest of my books up in all of the venues.

There are tons of possibilities, and I'm really excited. I'd love to get back to making a couple hundred dollars in Kobo every month, so that's one of the first goals I'm shooting for. Ideally, I'd love to pull in a couple hundred dollars each month on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Apple and Google, but it's going to take some time to get there. BookBub promotions make this possible once everything is up in all of the stores, but I really won't know what will happen until I do it.

If I find the time, I'd love to document everything that I'm doing to get this turned around. I'd be willing to provide sales numbers, titles, etc., so that others can develop their own strategies. With so much going on, I hesitate to commit, but I will report back in one form or another.


----------



## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

thank you for all the information. Do you have seperate mailing lists for the different countries or do you keep it all in English?

I am getting close to release my first books in the US and still ponder if I should join Select for 3 months to make use of the free days or if I try BKnights instead. I will also have one book set to perma free.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> thank you for all the information. Do you have seperate mailing lists for the different countries or do you keep it all in English?
> 
> I am getting close to release my first books in the US and still pondering if I should join Select for 3 months to make use of the Free days or if I try BKnights instead. I will also have one book set to perma free.


Currently everything is in one English language mailing list. I don't like the idea of managing multiple lists, so I'll try to mix in e-mails in other languages every now and then.

As for using Select, it can be an easy way to make a few sales and get some reviews, but you might be able to achieve the same effect setting your book to free in other stores and letting Amazon price match. Before I was gung ho to put new books into KDP Select, but now I'm a lot more skeptical, especially with short works. Conversely, my mother is killing it in KDP Select (all of her books are 100,000+ words), and stands to make $5,000 - $10,000 for July. Damn, I miss those days...

Last, I've found that BKNights is great for bolstering sales after a major promotion (in my case, it was a free giveaway via BookBub followed by a 99-cent promotion). I had them promote once per week for 4-5 weeks, and it provided a nice extra pop to the algorithms. It's been harder for me to gauge its effectiveness when paired with another promotion (namely BookBub), though I've heard of people running a free giveaway + BKNights and having success. That hasn't happened for me yet, but I'm willing to try it with my permafrees.


----------



## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

Streetlib sounds interesting and they just released an EPub3 - KF8 editor:

http://selfpublish.streetlib.com/2015/07/28/epub3-and-kf8-to-streetlib-write/

I am looking forward to try it out and hopefully it can replace the KKBC which is bug ridden.


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Streetlib sounds interesting and they just released an EPub3 - KF8 editor:
> 
> http://selfpublish.streetlib.com/2015/07/28/epub3-and-kf8-to-streetlib-write/
> 
> I am looking forward to try it out and hopefully it can replace the KKBC which is bug ridden.


FYI, here's a new article about Bookmate expanding into the Latin American market:

http://www.bookbusinessmag.com/article/bookmate-launches-subscription-service-latin-america/#utm_source=book-business-insight&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2015-08-05&utm_content=bookmate+launches+its+subscription+service+in+latin+america-1

Why is this important? Streetlib/Narcissus distributes there.


----------



## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Finally some good news for me. Since pulling out of Select and going wide, I thought I'd have a rather hopeful swing for a BookBub on one of my permafrees - a book that I'd never submitted to them before, only has 1 review and has been languishing a bit in the rankings. I must have caught them at a weak moment because I've been accepted for 30 August   

So for those of you who have had BookBubs recently - is the common wisdom to pre-load or post-load other advertising?

I've run bknights promotions before and typically get 3-400 downloads of a freebie, so will run with them again and apply for a few others (ENT, freebooksy and all the usual suspects), but I'm interested in hearing if I should load them up before or after bookbub. I think Wayne Stinnet advocates pre-loading, but I'm not sure if that applies across all genres and if it matters that I'm doing permafree rather than limited time offer...

I'm advertising US only in the free lists for Childrens books ($60), so for a return on the bookbub I'll need to sell around 22 copies of my follow ups (I price all except 1 of my series at $3.99) - thats ignoring costs of any other advertising I do. 

As I mentioned above, the book in question ("The Bees" in my signature) has 1 review, and is shorter than BB's recommended length for kids books, so my only conclusion is that they're desperate for submissions in the Childrens lists  So if you've never applied to BB, now might be the time.

I'll update with rankings etc. when the time comes. It's nice to finally have some positive news after a difficult couple of months


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Finally some good news for me. Since pulling out of Select and going wide, I thought I'd have a rather hopeful swing for a BookBub on one of my permafrees - a book that I'd never submitted to them before, only has 1 review and has been languishing a bit in the rankings. I must have caught them at a weak moment because I've been accepted for 30 August
> 
> So for those of you who have had BookBubs recently - is the common wisdom to pre-load or post-load other advertising?
> 
> ...


Good to know. I'm overdue for a BookBub promotion, and I can imagine that they're being hit hard in this genre by authors who aren't bothering to promote while they get their house(s) in order. I'll submit something to them this weekend, most likely a permafree that's in the works.

I think preloading is a brilliant idea, and perhaps BKNights is the perfect low cost solution to accommodate this. I have found some success post loading in tandem with a 99-cent promotion. Give it a shot!

I've run into similar problems loading my picture books onto Oyster. They don't allow any books less then 1,000 words and disregard front and back matter (or so they say). What's strange is they did allow My Crazy Pet Frog that includes a 1,000-word Author's Note and a 2,000-word preview of Secret Agent Disco Dancer. Perhaps a little back matter content is what you need?


----------



## Weibart (Oct 27, 2014)

> @DianaUrban For a middle-grade Graphic Novel, How many pages would it need to be to be accepted for @BookBub? Thank You! #AskBookBub





> @Weibart Middle grade novels should be at least 100 pages long. More details here: bit.ly/1M09V2n #AskBookBub


I participated in today's #AskBookBub Twitterchat and clarified a BookBub question I had. I checked BookBub's site and found the answer to this, but wanted to run it by Diana during today's chat to clarify what the minimum number of pages would be for a middle-grade Graphic Novel to be submitted for a Bookbub. 100 pages is about the length of the graphic novels I'm planning on self-publishing so I'm glad that's the answer.

Also, to *Roman*, thank you for the link to Streetlib. This is exactly what I was looking for and I'm excited to give the software a try!


----------



## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Good to know. I'm overdue for a BookBub promotion, and I can imagine that they're being hit hard in this genre by authors who aren't bothering to promote while they get their house(s) in order. I'll submit something to them this weekend, most likely a permafree that's in the works.
> 
> I think preloading is a brilliant idea, and perhaps BKNights is the perfect low cost solution to accommodate this. I have found some success post loading in tandem with a 99-cent promotion. Give it a shot!
> 
> I've run into similar problems loading my picture books onto Oyster. They don't allow any books less then 1,000 words and disregard front and back matter (or so they say). What's strange is they did allow My Crazy Pet Frog that includes a 1,000-word Author's Note and a 2,000-word preview of Secret Agent Disco Dancer. Perhaps a little back matter content is what you need?


Thanks Scott, good to know. I'm still working out who else to schedule (I must admit being accepted by BB was a shock, so I hadn't really thought about other promotions around it), but I'll make sure to update my plans closer to the time. I've watched other peoples promo threads with great interest so it is finally time for me to give back.


----------



## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

Weibart said:


> Also, to *Roman*, thank you for the link to Streetlib. This is exactly what I was looking for and I'm excited to give the software a try!


I created a book for testing and the result wasn't usable. I provided them feedback though and they already implemented one of my suggestions.

If the tool works, I would prefer it over the KKBC.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

So what do we think about the announcement of KU All Star bonuses specifically for illustrated kids books?
(https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2X66QXB12WV2)

Is it a sign that maybe they realise they made an error of judgement, or is it a token "look, we are taking care of everyone?"


----------



## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

dcswain said:


> So what do we think about the announcement of KU All Star bonuses specifically for illustrated kids books?
> (https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2X66QXB12WV2)
> 
> Is it a sign that maybe they realise they made an error of judgement, or is it a token "look, we are taking care of everyone?"


The latter, at best.

The bonus amounts are fairly trivial, and I think that says a lot. There are tens of thousands of KU-eligible children's books, so it's no small feat to get into that top 100. We're talking _many_ reads... yet the bonus range is $150 to $1000. Why so low? Two possible explanations: Those leading authors won't notice it as anything other than a nice acknowledgment of getting into the top 100, because they're earning so much anyway, or these bonus amounts are a significant boost in compensation. If $150 is a significant boost in compensation for a top-100 book, that shows there's basically _no_ compensation for any title outside the top 1000. If anything, this "bonus" is an indirect confirmation from Amazon that there's virtually no point having illustrated children's books in KDP Select (and I don't see any hint of them thinking this is any kind of error).

I've said before and will say again: With the recent compensation change, Kindle Unlimited became, in essence, Fiction Unlimited -- and fiction for older readers at that. For illustrated children's book authors, Amazon's FU has made the go-wide decision a no-brainer.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Well said Crenel, completely agree



Crenel said:


> For illustrated children's book authors, Amazon's FU has made the go-wide decision a no-brainer.


I keep reading that "FU" as something other than "Fiction Unlimited"...


----------



## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

dcswain said:


> I keep reading that "FU" as something other than "Fiction Unlimited"...


As intended!


----------



## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm seeing some signs of life in Kobo and Apple. Foreign language translations are doing well internationally, especially in the Italian market. Norway is surprising me in the Apple store with a few sales. This is all small potatoes stuff--about $10 in Apple and $18 in Kobo, but I'm starting from essentially nothing. Also earned another $8 in Teachers Pay Teachers thus far, which really surprised me. While these numbers are abysmal now, it's not unlike the last time I went wide. During those days, I had a few low earning months that kept building organically until I started seeing hundreds of dollars per month. It's possible to succeed in this manner, especially with marketing from BookBub, but it is slow. Don't let it get you down. Stick to your plan.

I did $1,700+ back in June, not a great month by any standard, only to see my numbers decline ~80% in July to ~$350. About $200 of that was borrows, and I know that I can make at least that amount in one venue, most likely two. It's a humbling experience to work my way back to the $500 - $1,000 range, but I'll get there. Permafrees are working, and I have more permafrees to upload to all major vendors. But I have to keep reminding myself that it's early. Heck, I've only had all of my stuff out of KDP Select for a couple weeks. This is to be expected.

The most important thing that all of us can do is to get our content up in all of the vendors, fix anything that needs to be fixed, and do what marketing and new releases we can before Christmas day. That's the big deadline. Everything needs to be ready to go by that time. Don't wait until the last minute, folks. It's the best way to kickstart your sales again.

ALSO: I am seeing a little money from Scrbd, but nothing from Oyster yet. Barnes & Noble has always been non-existant for me (a sale here and there) and GooglePlay is moving freebies but little else. I have no idea what's going on in FlipKart or some of the lesser known venues, but haven't heard anything yet. Amazon sales are pathetic but I'm trying not to look at them yet and get everything set up for a promotion. Eventually everything will come together, it's just painful getting there.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok, this is hilarious. Just as I bemoaned my sales, this came in:



> Hello,
> 
> Congratulations! You have qualified for a KDP Select All-Star bonus for the month of July.
> 
> ...


As well as this:



> Hello,
> 
> Congratulations! You have qualified for a KDP Select All-Star bonus for the month of July.
> 
> ...


So I'm a KDP All-Star. I never thought I'd utter those words. Ok, I'm totally confused now.


----------



## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Ok, this is hilarious. Just as I bemoaned my sales, this came in:
> 
> As well as this:
> 
> So I'm a KDP All-Star. I never thought I'd utter those words. Ok, I'm totally confused now.


Congrats Scott (I think )I've seen from the other All-Stars thread that they're now solely on pages read, with sales no longer a factor. Would you be happy to share any of your page read numbers to reach that All-Star level? Totally understand if you don't want to.

I've also been wondering if there has been a recalculation of kids books KENPC counts. One of my books that I pulled was listed at 1 KENPC. I was looking back through the first couple of weeks of July, before I fully pulled out and noticed a spike for that book of 13 pages read. It had no other pages read at all that month for that title, so I think it would be unusual for 13 people to all read the book on the same day. Even if it is a recalculation, it's certainly not enough to draw me back in, but it does show that things may change... eventually.

I'm seeing a little bit of traction on GooglePlay still, and hope to build on other platforms after my BookBub on the 30th. Everything I'm doing at the moment is focussed on getting all my products right in time for that. I've even finally succumbed and started a mailing list for new releases.

One thing I have noticed in the last few days is an upswing in paperback sales. Not huge numbers, but just enough for me to wonder what might be causing it.

Next month will be focussed on preparing and strategising for xmas. I'm not sure what my plan will be this year, but I've been writing a bit "higher" lately - and experimenting with MG and YA fiction. I'll have to wait and see if any of it is worth releasing, but it has been a good outlet for my creativity.

Anyone have their plans for xmas sorted yet that you'd be keen to share?


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm afraid I'll be the laughingstock of Kboards if I post my numbers. They're really horrible compared to everyone else. Seriously, I'm beginning to think that Amazon sent these e-mails in error. Mistakes happen, and I really wouldn't be mad if that were the case.

P.S. I left the ASINs intentionally so that children's book authors could get a sense of which titles qualified (or did they?).


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I'm afraid I'll be the laughingstock of Kboards if I post my numbers. They're really horrible compared to everyone else. Seriously, I'm beginning to think that Amazon sent these e-mails in error. Mistakes happen, and I really wouldn't be mad if that were the case.
> 
> P.S. I left the ASINs intentionally so that children's book authors could get a sense of which titles qualified (or did they?).


No worries Scott. I wonder if it is a sign that Amazon has lost a lot more kids book authors than they planned on...

Enjoy it while you can, I guess - you can claim that you have a top 30 KU kids book on Amazon


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

Intresting, I wonder if it's just picture books. I have short chapter books aimed at kids ranked in the 40,000s and I didn't get anything. I'm tempted to ask them.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Hmm...it does say Illustrated Kids' Books, but quite a few kids' chapter books are also illustrated.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

D. Zollicoffer said:


> Intresting, I wonder if it's just picture books. I have short chapter books aimed at kids ranked in the 40,000s and I didn't get anything. I'm tempted to ask them.


To quote the KDP info page "To participate, illustrated kids' books must be classified as "Children's Books" in the Kindle Store, be intended for young children learning to read, and have illustrations integral to the book's storyline".

The way I read that is it doesn't have to be a "picture book", so long as it has illustrations making up at least some of the story. That might make quite a few of the chapter book writers round here eligible? I haven't seen Becca Price round here for a while, but she may also be eligible based on that definition...


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

dcswain said:


> To quote the KDP info page "To participate, illustrated kids' books must be classified as "Children's Books" in the Kindle Store, be intended for young children learning to read, and have illustrations integral to the book's storyline".
> 
> The way I read that is it doesn't have to be a "picture book", so long as it has illustrations making up at least some of the story. That might make quite a few of the chapter book writers round here eligible? I haven't seen Becca Price round here for a while, but she may also be eligible based on that definition...


My chapter books also have illustrations, some between 30 - 40. I hope they are eligible - but first have to get some sales .
The children love Constable Mole.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

Congratulations for the All-Star Bonus Scott.

How many unique English titles do you have? I tried to check your author page, but Amazon mixed all the languages.

And does anyone know if I can upload my book for pre-sale in other stores while it is still in Select?


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Congratulations for the All-Star Bonus Scott.
> 
> How many unique English titles do you have? I tried to check your author page, but Amazon mixed all the languages.
> 
> And does anyone know if I can upload my book for pre-sale in other stores while it is still in Select?


Out of my 220 titles, I have about 50. I've been focusing on translations recently as an easy way to expand my international audience.

I have no idea if you can set up preorders for books currently in KDP Select. It makes sense, but I'd certainly clear it with Amazon first, just to make sure there aren't any complications. If you want to pull your books, contact KDP support and give them a list of the ASINs you want removed. For me it took a weekend before everything was pulled out.

ALSO: Since there is money to be made in terms of the All-Star bonuses, it might make sense to throw a few titles in there, promote them with BookBub, and see if you win. It's a lottery-based approach, and your titles are your tickets to winning one of the many prizes. Sure, I'd rather have the old borrows back, but for those with a large catalog, I'm sure you could sacrifice a title here and there.

KDP Select is good for reviving a completely dead book. For me, it's my zombie novelette Netherstream, which I'll be extending and promoting soon.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

In regards to Amazon, I just wanted to add one more thing. Ok, several more things. All of my greatest success as a self-published author has happened in Amazon's store, thanks in a large part of KDP Select. In January 2012, I saw one of my children's picture books break into the Top 100 in all of Amazon's store. Even as recently as May, I found myself selling (including borrows) a couple thousand books each month.

So it was an incredible blow when Amazon rolled out the new payout structure. Left unchanged, I knew I faced a 80-90% decrease in earnings and there was little I could do about it. Sure, I could write longer works, but with a full time job and a family, there are only so many hours, especially in the two weeks before the changes were to be implemented.

I went through many emotions: anger, confusion, sadness, hopelessness, pride, and ultimately, determination that I would rebuild myself in all of the other stores. While I did give KU 2.0 a chance for the full month of July, I pulled my entire catalog once August hit.

The last thing I ever expected was to be a KDP Select All-Star. Yes, I did a BookBub promotion for Ninja Robot Repairmen, but it was disappointing, and only brought in half of what the The Penguin Way did. And I certainly scoffed at the pittance that was in the All-Star awards for illustrated children's books.

But now that I've become an All Star with five rewards in all, I am thankful that they did something. It does ease the pain a little and makes me feel like they realized that they made a mistake.

None of us can disagree that they had to take action to some degree. All of the people flooding Amazon with 5-page scamlets needed to be dealt with, but at the same time, they cratered the children's book market. Erotica was also dealt a significant blow as were popular nonfiction categories such as cookbooks. Then there are gems in the popular genres that I'm sure Amazon doesn't want to appear on their competitors' sites. Ugh!

To kill the cancer in their hand, Amazon cut off their arm.

All-Star bonuses are a good first step, but it's still not a sustainable way to make money as a professional. In order to replace the income one once made, they would have to do what I did and win multiple bonuses. That's not a realistic approach and certainly doesn't make good business sense.

But if I had a choice, I would prefer to be all in with Amazon. Putting 220 titles on multiple venues takes a lot of time--time that could be spent writing new books. And at my core, I'm a very loyal person. KDP Select has been a huge part of my success. It's hard to turn my back on it, even considering everything that happened.

Does the children's book market need a separate pot? That really depends on Amazon's business strategy. How much do our books drive customers to their site and result in sales? Are we an important piece of the puzzle, or an afterthought due to our niche status? Or are we growing by leaps and bounds? Up until now, I've always believed that the children's book market, even the illustrated children's book market, was huge. Now that I've seen some numbers, I'm not so sure. I'd love to get Amazon's take on this.

Do I wish I could simply write and not have to worry about anything else? That would be ideal! I'd put all of my content exclusively on that vendor's store that could help me make that happen. In a good month, I can publish 10-20 new children's books going full blast. I love those days! I love that feeling of being productive and letting my imagination soar. This is what I was meant to do! And I'd be happy to put them all into KDP Select if it were viable like it once was.

I would like to invite Amazon to the table to discuss issues in the children's book community. If they would like to engage us here on this public forum, or privately, I would be happy to set aside time and pull together my thoughts. And for the other authors out there, if you had a chance to talk to speak your mind with Amazon, what would you tell them? (They've been known to lurk here, you know…)


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

Regarding the size of the children's book market, I can tell that it is tiny. I tracked sales numbers of other authors for a long time and they are quite terrible. This is why Amazon doesn't care about us.

I previously ranked number 1 in picture books in Germany and any adult fiction writer would have laughed at my sales. I probably wouldn't even have reached any chart ranking for fiction books with my numbers.

Amazon already has a subscription program specifically for children (without indie authors) and this is why I highly doubt that they will make one specifically for us.

I publish my books in different languages as well and it's really tons of work.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Regarding the size of the children's book market, I can tell that it is tiny. I tracked sales numbers of other authors for a long time and they are quite terrible. This is why Amazon doesn't care about us.
> 
> I previously ranked number 1 in picture books in Germany and any adult fiction writer would have laughed at my sales. I probably wouldn't even have reached any chart ranking for fiction books with my numbers.
> 
> ...


I can only speak from personal experience. This year, I probably averaged about 2,000 sales/month (if you include borrows) for the first 6 months. That's not so small. Also, there are some authors selling like hotcakes in the children's book market, constantly ranking in the low 1,000s. Two of my titles hit those rankings this year before falling off.

It's not pathetic as you think, but it's likely smaller than I think.


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## scribblydoodler (Feb 9, 2011)

Looks like I'm heading for less than $100 a month in earnings with my books. What I'm thinking of doing is giving up, basically.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Looks like I'm heading for less than $100 a month in earnings with my books. What I'm thinking of doing is giving up, basically.


Nooooo...

You're a writer, you're not allowed to give up. Ever.

Your contribution is important, especially for the cultivation of future readers.

We will get through this dark time. Let's start by pooling our resources and communicating our issues with Amazon.

UPDATE: BTW, I'm in the process of putting together a new children's book promotion. More details once I hear back from BookBub.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

scribblydoodler said:


> Looks like I'm heading for less than $100 a month in earnings with my books. What I'm thinking of doing is giving up, basically.


I know the feeling, but believe me, you could be doing a lot worse -- for example, you and I could switch sales.  I think about giving up all the time, but apparently I'm too stubborn, or stupid, or something like that. I've been called "feisty" and "independent" so I suppose I'll keep plugging along despite the overbearing futility of it. Anyway, that's just my long-winded way of saying "don't give up" -- oh, and "fight back." The latter comes from writing more, finding new/more-effective promotion, etc.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2015)

Shame, your books look wonderful.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Shame, your books look wonderful.


Those books are awesome, and are more highly rated than mine are.

A little promotion would work wonders for your catalog. You also need to decide what stays and what goes from KDP Select (if any).


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## scribblydoodler (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks, guys - sorry for the moan. My sales have been sliding for some time, and the KU2 thing just seemed to be the last nail in the coffin. I was thinking of unpublishing everything and putting the whole sorry affair behind me. But perhaps it's my marketing skills (or lack of) that have let me down. I guess we all need to be more creative than ever in marketing and promoting our books. And hope amazon comes up with something to help re the 18 cents I get every time one of my books is borrowed and read.


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

Hey everybody. So, first, to agree with Scott, I also think the online Market for Children's books is larger than some think and maybe a bit smaller than I somedays think. I don't write picture books but I write a variety of different types of books for the 8-12 year old crowd. My greatest successes are not with my longer more solidly middle grade books. My greatest successes are with my shorter books aimed at the younger end of the middle grade spectrum, those 8-10 year old kids. And my illustrated kids books that target this age group do pretty good.

For me, the print component of the online store has been very important to me. In June and July I saw sales of a little over $3000 through amazon for each month. My August sales will be in the neighborhood of $2800. This is not bragging because it may all go away tomorrow but it is information. I'm not particularly great at anything but $3000 in a month is meaningful to me and if I was just starting out today, I would like to know that that amount is possible without being some sort of enormous outlier.

Last thing, I also received one of those Kindle Bonuses. Just like Scott did, I've included my letter below. Now, unless I'm blind, I can't tell if this is just a regular bonus of one of these illustrated book bonuses. The title the bonus is for is a book called But, I Still Had Feet. What's interesting to me is it was not my best performing title from a pages read perspective in the UK for July. And, if it's for the illustrated bonus (which it could be since this book has lots of illustrations) I also find that strange since I have a book, The Big Life of Remi Muldoon, which also performed better in the UK during July and had a monster month (for me) during July in the US store. I've emailed KDP to get some clarification but it's all certainly interesting. Dan.

Letter from KDP about bonus

Hello,

Congratulations! You have qualified for a KDP Select All-Star bonus for the month of July.

To further reward the books that are most popular with our customers each month we award KDP Select All-Star bonuses, based on what KDP Select (KDPS) titles and authors are being read the most.

The following title(s) also qualified for bonuses:

B010XWROCG | �100

Your total "KDP Select All-Star" bonus amount is �100.

We determine 'most-read' rankings by combining total Kindle Edition Normalized Pages (KENP) read for borrows from Kindle Unlimited (KU) and the Kindle Owners' Lending Library (KOLL) during the month on Amazon.co.uk. Calculations include only titles that are enrolled in KDP Select during the period.

The payment schedule and payment method is the same as your other sales from KDP. You will receive your bonus approximately sixty (60) days following the end of the calendar month during which applicable sales occur.

For more information on KDP Select All-Star bonuses, please go here: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2X66QXB12WV2

Best regards,
The Kindle Direct Publishing Team


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Congrats on your All-Star award! I suspect there are other All-Stars (for children's books) on Kboards that haven't come forward yet.

Print has been my biggest Achilles heel. Nothing of mine is in print, and I'm missing out on a big opportunity. To turn my sales around, that should be one of the biggest areas of emphasis.

It's interesting you got an award for the U.K. but not the U.S. I definitely won't be getting any awards for August, but September might be a possibility. It's a lottery now, that will only get more and more competitive. (So please, someone, promote this month and win those awards! I got mine, now it's your turn!)

BTW, I now have three titles in KDP Select: Netherstream (zombie/horror), Bubblegum Princess (children's picture book + part of the novelization) and Alphabet All-Stars: Where Does Panda Fit In, for which I'm trying to secure a BookBub spot. That's all I intend on putting there for now. The other 217 books in my catalog are going wide.

I am going to be putting together a web-based interface to make these promotions much easier. Please also let me know if you are interested in participating. It can be our Back to School promotion, depending on the date I'm able to secure.


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

Scott, Thank you. Honestly, I think they messed mine up. My guess is that the illustrated bonuses are meant for picture books. Mine is more like a graphic novel (not really but more like). I looked back on July's performance for both the US and UK stores and The Big Life of Remi Muldoon did way better than But, I Still Had Feet (not least of which Feet didn't come out til July 7th). So, here's what I'm thinking. I think they are mistakenly lumping Feet in with other picture books (which isn't fair to picture books because Feet has a lot more pages. They probably have correctly not put Big Life in (even though it's got 100 pictures) because its still not a picture book and comparing it to 24 page picture books just isn't fair to them. 

As I've contented from the beginning, my books are awkward and fall somewhere in this mushy middle. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

Dan


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Daniel Kenney said:


> Scott, Thank you. Honestly, I think they messed mine up. My guess is that the illustrated bonuses are meant for picture books. Mine is more like a graphic novel (not really but more like). I looked back on July's performance for both the US and UK stores and The Big Life of Remi Muldoon did way better than But, I Still Had Feet (not least of which Feet didn't come out til July 7th). So, here's what I'm thinking. I think they are mistakenly lumping Feet in with other picture books (which isn't fair to picture books because Feet has a lot more pages. They probably have correctly not put Big Life in (even though it's got 100 pictures) because its still not a picture book and comparing it to 24 page picture books just isn't fair to them.
> 
> As I've contented from the beginning, my books are awkward and fall somewhere in this mushy middle. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
> 
> Dan


I'm not so sure they messed up. If it's aimed at kids and has illustrations integral to the story (which it sounds like it does) then it matches the criteria I pasted above. Graphic novels definitely sound like something that should fit the category.

Congrats on being an all star


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

dcswain said:


> I'm not so sure they messed up. If it's aimed at kids and has illustrations integral to the story (which it sounds like it does) then it matches the criteria I pasted above. Graphic novels definitely sound like something that should fit the category.
> 
> Congrats on being an all star


Thank you but....I just received a reply from KDP to my earlier inquiry and now I'm really confused. They confirmed that my bonus was NOT for the illustrated kids book but just the normal All star bonus. (this is for the UK store remember?). Now, I'm telling you there is no chance this is correct. My numbers simply don't warrant that. So I am now very, very confused. Dan


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Daniel Kenney said:


> Thank you but....I just received a reply from KDP to my earlier inquiry and now I'm really confused. They confirmed that my bonus was NOT for the illustrated kids book but just the normal All star bonus. (this is for the UK store remember?). Now, I'm telling you there is no chance this is correct. My numbers simply don't warrant that. So I am now very, very confused. Dan


Take the money and run


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Thank you but....I just received a reply from KDP to my earlier inquiry and now I'm really confused. They confirmed that my bonus was NOT for the illustrated kids book but just the normal All star bonus. (this is for the UK store remember?). Now, I'm telling you there is no chance this is correct. My numbers simply don't warrant that. So I am now very, very confused. Dan


You sound exactly like I did Monday night.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Daniel Kenney said:


> Thank you but....I just received a reply from KDP to my earlier inquiry and now I'm really confused. They confirmed that my bonus was NOT for the illustrated kids book but just the normal All star bonus. (this is for the UK store remember?). Now, I'm telling you there is no chance this is correct. My numbers simply don't warrant that. So I am now very, very confused. Dan


Very bizarre indeed... but I agree with Jan 

Congrats on the success you've had anyway. You seem to have found you niche and deliver a quality product. I'll have to pick up a copy of BJG to see how the pros do it ;p


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I am going to be putting together a web-based interface to make these promotions much easier. Please also let me know if you are interested in participating. It can be our Back to School promotion, depending on the date I'm able to secure.


I'm still interested in a back-to-school co-op promotion.


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

And I'm interested in the back to school promotion as well.

Dan


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm interested in the promo (upper MG/tween fiction here) ... and congrats, Dan, on being an all star.


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## Louise Lintvelt (Jan 10, 2015)

I'm also interested in being part of the promo again.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I am going to be putting together a web-based interface to make these promotions much easier. Please also let me know if you are interested in participating. It can be our Back to School promotion, depending on the date I'm able to secure.


I too have an upper-MG/tween/young-teen book. I'm interested in hearing about this promotion.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks, everyone. I'm still waiting to hear back from BookBub. Typically this is a good sign. The longer the delay, the better of a chance your book has with catching on with them; otherwise, they're fairly prompt about issuing a rejection.

If I didn't say it before, everyone is welcome to participate, as long as their book(s) hit somewhere in the juvenile fiction category. Upper middle grade, tween, young-teen are all fine. I just need a date so that I can begin moving forward with this.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2015)

I have a picture book ready for print and digital. I`d love to be a part of this promo. For the first time, I am actually ready.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I have a picture book ready for print and digital. I`d love to be a part of this promo. For the first time, I am actually ready.


Sounds great. I have a new title under my Dingleberry Small pen name that I need to finish. Hopefully I'll be ready as well.

For an idea of the types of promotions we've done in the past, look here:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,210500.msg2935656.html

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,209069.msg2913677.html

Here is everyone I have so far that's interested in participating:

Angela Muse
Laura Yirak
Louise Lintvelt
D.C. Swain
Daniel Kenney
Sarah Holmlund
Rachel Elizabeth Cole
Stuart J. Whitmore
Maggie Dana
Jena H
Andrew Murray
Jan Hurst-Nicholson
and, of course, Scott Gordon/Dingleberry Small (me!)


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I'm also interested again  . 

Word of caution to those in Select. If your 90 days is up in the middle of the promotion you won't be able to do it for free for the entire time, even though your book is up for automatic renewal. This is what happened to me with one of my books for the previous promotion  .


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Once I know the date of my next promotion (still waiting on BookBub), I'll take the list of everyone participating and create the teaser. I'm looking for permafrees, KDP Select free books during the dates of the giveaway, and 99-cent books. Like before, I will be advertising in the backmatter of my books, on my blog, Twitter, Facebook, my personal mailing list, and any other forms of social media that can give the group a nice push. BookBub is the main promotional vehicle, though.

And if anyone has any other ideas, I'm open to suggestions.

Oh yes--I'll also be creating a separate thread for the promotion, but will stay active here as well.

UPDATE #1: Just got word from Sarah Holmlund and she's onboard. Still waiting to hear back from BookBub, though. Ugh...


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

I probably can't participate, because my free book will take at least one more month until it's finished. And I don't have an English translation yet of my other books. I'll have to find a new translator who is good and more reliable.

But the good news is that leaving Amazon Select seems to be a good move at the end, although it's a lot of work. I wish I could hire an assistant. To manage translations, ebook & print book creation, uploading, etc.

I will probably go direct with Apple, Google, Kobo, Amazon and use Draft2digital and the Italian company for the rest.

Interestingly my print sales started to take off and I am now selling more print books than ebooks.


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## RhondaW (Mar 31, 2012)

I am also interested in the promotion for one of my kids books. 

Thanks for doing this again!

Rhonda


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok, I just received confirmation from BookBub. The promotion will take place September 11-15. It feels strange that it's on 9/11, but it shouldn't negatively impact the campaign. I will put together a separate thread later tonight or over the weekend. I'll also build an interface so that you can submit and manage your entries.

More later...


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Ok, I just received confirmation from BookBub. The promotion will take place September 11-15. It feels strange that it's on 9/11, but it shouldn't negatively impact the campaign. I will put together a separate thread later tonight or over the weekend. I'll also build an interface so that you can submit and manage your entries.
> 
> More later...


This is great Scott. And, I've never done one of these before so could you just tell me again what you are looking for? Is each of us supposed to have a particular title for free on those days? Sorry that I missed the explanation but whatever it is, I'm game.

Dan


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> This is great Scott. And, I've never done one of these before so could you just tell me again what you are looking for? Is each of us supposed to have a particular title for free on those days? Sorry that I missed the explanation but whatever it is, I'm game.


The new thread will have all of the information. I'm changing a few things, most notably, the submission process. There will be both free book and cheap book (i.e., 99 cent) sections. More later, I promise...


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok everyone, here's a link to the new children's book promotion:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,221031.0.html

UPDATE: I just received this e-mail regarding the All-Star Bonuses:



> Hello,
> 
> We recently notified you regarding your Amazon.com All-Stars July bonus. We are contacting you today to let you know the following titles qualified for the minimum $150 All Star bonus, $50 more than the amount we communicated previously:
> 
> ...


If you received an e-mail that said your All-Star bonus was $100 for your illustrated children's book, you'll actually receive $150. Not too shabby, eh?


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

dcswain said:


> I'll update with rankings etc. when the time comes. It's nice to finally have some positive news after a difficult couple of months


I said I'd update with rankings/downloads when my BB for "_The Bees_" rolled round, and today has been the big day... and what a day 

I pre-loaded the ad with a bknights on the 29th and got around 150 downloads - not as many as normal, but enough for them to be good value in my book.

Then came the big BookBub. I was lucky enough to get in before the recent price rise (now $80 for free kids books) and was sitting at around #1100 overall in the free store on the back of bknights. Then this happened:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank:

#12 Free in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Free in Kindle Store) 
#1 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Children's eBooks 

Number 1 in kids books and number 12 overall and I am ecstatic. BB gives the range for downloads as up to 9800. I'm sitting on 9470 given away with a few hours left in the day. And that is solely on Amazon. I'll update with figures on the other retailers as they come in.

For now, I'm going to pour myself a wee glass of something tasty


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Awesome! That's nearly as well as I did last Christmas! 

Rue


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

ruecole said:


> Awesome! That's nearly as well as I did last Christmas!
> 
> Rue


Thanks Rue. Up to #10 overall now 

ETA - peaked at #9 overall in the free list with 10,511 given away on Amazon.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Fantastic!

Rue


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Anyone else want to participate in the Kidtastic Back-to-School Giveaway? Here's the entry form:

http://www.halcyon-books.com/promo_entry_form.php

And here's what we have lined up thus far:

http://www.halcyon-books.com/display_promo_entries.php

Questions? PM me or comment here.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

Is this the same as the bookbub one?


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

Scott I apologize, I have submitted the wrong image and it`s HUGE! Could you wipe my entry and I`ll try again? Not trying to hog space!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Ha ha. No problem. I'll fix it when I get home tonight.

I just learned today that there's a really easy way I can resize images for submissions (Imagemagick), so this won't be a problem moving forward.

In the end, it's best to make the submission form as easy as possible. Expecting authors to submit HTML-coded descriptions and images that conform to narrow guidelines isn't the best approach. I can make it all work on the backend, so I'll work out the kinks and try to make it less of a headache.

Glad to make your acquaintance, and best of luck!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

Ha. Again, thank you for your hard-work. It would be nice to think our community could gain some traction from all of this. You are certainly the trail-blazer!


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Somehow I overlooked the fact that most authors have their website, blog and other information in their signatures. All of this information should be included in the promotion. Ugh! Here we go again...


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

did you have any success with the Apple store? Would you say that it was worth it to publish there?

I am struggling in the German and French markets right now. I can't find anywhere where I can promote my free ebooks. Does anyone have a suggestion?


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

sorry for bumping up the thread, but I don't think anyone would read it if I just edit my last post. I am still curious if anyone is having any luck outside of Amazon.

I went through great lengths to create an iBook. First I tried to use the site virtualmacosx.com but they don't reply to to emails, so I ended up paying for macincloud.com. 

Creating the iBook was an awful experience. It wasn't the fault of the provider though. My internet connection was too slow and the iBook software is awkward to use. It doesn't allow to maximize images and you have to manually resize them to fit to the book. There are no grid lines or anything to help you.

After many hours I was finally done and started the uploading process. I found out that Apple wants me to publish the book using my real name. I tried to contact the customer support about this and never got a response. I searched here on the board and figured out that I wasted my time trying to go direct with the Apple store. 

I ended up uploading my reflowable-layout epub file through Draft2Digital and am waiting now for it to show up in the stores.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Was your goal to create an e-book using the proprietary iBooks Author software? Or were you just trying to make an EPUB to put in the iBook Store? The two are very different things.

I create my EPUBs from scratch, and use iTunes Producer to put them in the store. iTunes Producer used to be a big headache, but it's gotten a lot better with 3.1. Now that I know the process, it's painless.

I can't speak for the iBooks Author software, but I am aware that you can create EPUBs using the new templates. I will play around with this in the future, and I'm sorry to hear that you had such a rough time.

Going direct has many advantages, and I have over 80 titles up there now. My best month so far is only $44, but it is going up every month. I've also done quite well in the international market.

I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. Apple is worth the investment of 1-2 titles, especially since they're the most cutting edge. Using an EPUB file created from another vendor such as Draft2Digital or Smashwords is an ok solution, but you really should learn how to do it yourself, or at very least, use a program like Scrivener to auto generate it for you. The more you understand EPUB and MOBI formats, the more control you have over the end product. Using all of the functionality of the new EPUB3 format will make this knowledge mandatory.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

Timely post Roman, as I was going to come and ask how everyone is going now, 3 months on from the big changes.

I was able to pick up a bit of traction on the "wide" sites on the back of a BB ad, but that is starting to tail off and I'm wondering if I would be better going back to being all in Select. My goals (at this stage) are simply to be read and I have a nagging feeling I'd do better in Select, rather than wide. But then I'll change my mind again and think maybe I'm better wide than in Select.

I think I'll wait until the start of December, and then I can make a decision either way ahead of the Christmas rush.

I've also been writing a middle grade series that I'll start off in Select. 10 individual episodes of comedy/horror (think Goosebumps-ish) at 5-6000 words each. It's been a lot of fun writing something different, but I've got another picture book series I want to get onto and then I might try my hand at a full length (YA) novel.

How's everyone else doing? Any new strategies anyone has come up with?



Roman said:


> sorry for bumping up the thread, but I don't think anyone would read it if I just edit my last post. I am still curious if anyone is having any luck outside of Amazon.
> 
> I went through great lengths to create an iBook. First I tried to use the site virtualmacosx.com but they don't reply to to emails, so I ended up paying for macincloud.com.
> 
> ...


I have a Mac, so used the iBooks Author software to create for iBooks, but initially I found it to be difficult to navigate and produce quality products. I did a bit of google-fu and found this website (http://www.slaphappylarry.com/making-a-childrens-picture-book-with-ibooks-author/) that helped greatly.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I was able to pick up a bit of traction on the "wide" sites on the back of a BB ad, but that is starting to tail off and I'm wondering if I would be better going back to being all in Select. My goals (at this stage) are simply to be read and I have a nagging feeling I'd do better in Select, rather than wide. But then I'll change my mind again and think maybe I'm better wide than in Select.


Go hybrid.

Finding the sweet spot is the hardest part of the process. Some books do better with a wide release, others don't.

But you need to have something in all of the stores. It's the only way to stay on top of all of the trends and hit the largest audience possible.



> I have a Mac, so used the iBooks Author software to create for iBooks, but initially I found it to be difficult to navigate and produce quality products. I did a bit of google-fu and found this website (http://www.slaphappylarry.com/making-a-childrens-picture-book-with-ibooks-author/) that helped greatly.


Ugh! Why don't more authors learn to code and not rely on tools to hide all of the details from them? (Not picking on anyone here, just expressing the sentiment.) You can put together a much better book by coding it from scratch. Yes, it's time consuming, but the rewards outweigh the investment.

An EPUB is simply a zip archive. Change the extension from .epub to .zip and you can uncompress it. The files are basic XHTML/XML and follow a standard structure. Very basic stuff. Learning to write is far more complex than markup coding.

From the EPUB you can create the MOBI. There's not a lot that needs to change, and you can even upload the EPUB to Amazon if you wish (though I wouldn't recommend it). MOBI Pocket Creator (a free PC tool) is what I use to generate the .prc (which can be renamed .mobi) from the source files.

By understanding the underlying structure and markup, you can do anything, and you're not constrained by a particular program. I've written my own tools in PHP to do additional things, like backmatter promotions. With the inclusion of JavaScript in EPUB 3, there's a world of possibilities. No, I don't expect every author to be technical, but a little savvy can goes a long ways.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Go hybrid.


Stop making so much sense  I've been enjoying debating with myself over which way to go


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Ugh! Why don't more authors learn to code and not rely on tools to hide all of the details from them? (Not picking on anyone here, just expressing the sentiment.) You can put together a much better book by coding it from scratch. Yes, it's time consuming, but the rewards outweigh the investment.
> 
> An EPUB is simply a zip archive. Change the extension from .epub to .zip and you can uncompress it. The files are basic XHTML/XML and follow a standard structure. Very basic stuff. Learning to write is far more complex than markup coding.
> 
> From the EPUB you can create the MOBI. There's not a lot that needs to change, and you can even upload the EPUB to Amazon if you wish (though I wouldn't recommend it). MOBI Pocket Creator (a free PC tool) is what I use to generate the .prc (which can be renamed .mobi) from the source files.


Once you know, it all makes sense. Until then, apparently it's a mystery. I've tried to explain barely-technical things to some other authors but they often don't even want to dip their toe in the water. Maybe it's a time/focus thing, they just prefer to focus on other things. On the other hand, some of my clients have moved on to doing their own work because I explained how to do it and they went with it. (I figure there's no point trying to hide information that is freely accessible just to "protect" my business, I will still get clients who _don't_ want to be bothered.)

I like using Sigil because it doesn't hide anything, it just simplifies things -- you can still edit every file that is compressed into the ePUB, but if you want to use the GUI you can. There are no extra steps for uncompressing/recompressing the ZIP (ePUB) file, it's just part of opening and saving the file in the Sigil interface. I'm looking forward to it supporting ePUB 3, but using that also means readers (i.e., software/apps, not the people doing the reading) must also support the format and the features within it that are appealing to us as authors.

Also, have you looked at using Amazon's own tools for going from ePUB to MOBI? I figure doing that keeps me current on what Amazon wants at any given moment. I use the Kindle Previewer because it does the ePUB to MOBI conversion and then immediately goes into previewing the book, so it's very streamlined. In fact it's one of the very few cases where I drag files onto an icon, I have the Previewer icon on my desktop and then drag the ePUB to it. It creates a subdirectory where the ePUB is to hold the converted MOBI, which has the timestamp in the filename. (The latter might be configurable, I'm not sure.)



Roman said:


> I am still curious if anyone is having any luck outside of Amazon.


I haven't, but my picture book flat-lined early in the year and never recovered, no matter what I've done to promote it, in or out of Select. Frustrating.  But at least it's not doing any worse wide than in Select!


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> In fact it's one of the very few cases where I drag files onto an icon, I have the Previewer icon on my desktop and then drag the ePUB to it. It creates a subdirectory where the ePUB is to hold the converted MOBI, which has the timestamp in the filename. (The latter might be configurable, I'm not sure.)


My friend at work was looking into this as an option, and noticed that the newly created MOBI was unnecessarily bloated. Apparently the conversion creates a duplicate of the files and places a wrapper around it. I can't remember the exact details, but I'll ask him again tomorrow. But the look and feel doesn't always convert over 100%, even if there isn't any bloating. No surprise there. For blockquotes, we remove the paragraph tags and use only breaks; otherwise, the vertical spacing is off. (I imagine we could get around this by improving our style sheet(s), but this is the way we do it now.) And forget about tables in MOBIs. Oh, what a nightmare...


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> My friend at work was looking into this as an option, and noticed that the newly created MOBI was unnecessarily bloated.


This is true, it creates both the old format and new format Kindle books (the specific names are escaping me at the moment), but the only problem there is that it's a little slower to upload. As far as I can tell, the larger file size doesn't affect what Amazon charges for delivery fees because Amazon calculates that without regard to the uploaded file size. (This was a point of contention in a many-months-ago thread here, but IIRC nobody could ever show a higher delivery cost from the larger upload.)


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Was your goal to create an e-book using the proprietary iBooks Author software? Or were you just trying to make an EPUB to put in the iBook Store? The two are very different things.
> 
> I create my EPUBs from scratch, and use iTunes Producer to put them in the store. iTunes Producer used to be a big headache, but it's gotten a lot better with 3.1. Now that I know the process, it's painless.


I wanted to make a fixed layout ebook for the iBook store. But I don't want to give away my real name, so D2D is the only option.

Did you manage to get a KU Bonus again last month by the way?


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I wanted to make a fixed layout ebook for the iBook store. But I don't want to give away my real name, so D2D is the only option.
> 
> Did you manage to get a KU Bonus again last month by the way?


Yeah, that's annoying that Apple displays your real name. D2D is the option I'd recommend, too.

I didn't receive any bonuses for August because nearly all of my books were out of KDP Select at that point. I put one back in and promoted it (via BookBub), so I am expecting something for September, but who knows? The competition looks a lot stiffer vs. last July when I was wondering whether or not to pull my books.

I'm going to continue to keep the majority of my books wide, though, so I can get Kobo and Apple going. As stated previously, I did better in September than I did at any point previously, but $44 isn't anything to brag about. Still, I think Apple holds a lot of promise, and I'd like to take advantage of some of the advanced features of EPUB 3. I've only played around with iBooks Author and it looks powerful. I can't imagine doing it the way you did, but that's actually pretty cool. It's definitely an alternative if disaster strikes.

It looks like my strategy moving forward will be to put 10% of my catalog into KDP Select and target the bonuses while I build my name with the other 90% in the rest of the stores. If I win the KU All-Star lottery, great, but I don't think it's a sound idea to build a business plan around bonuses that may be near impossible to get in the future. Still, if you can get the bonuses, why not? It certainly eases the pain. If you're not part of that exclusive club, it's miserable, and it makes you wonder why you didn't put your books in as many stores as possible. Then there are those cases where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. That's when ideology plays a major role. Do you want full control of your work, no limitations? Or to remain exclusive to Amazon's devious plans (ha, ha, ha...)? I'm very much the former.

Great job in making your way through creating your first iBook, BTW. It doesn't sound like fun, slow connection and all.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

are there any other cheap sites like BKNights which are worthwhile for children's books?

Did anyone try Book Goodies Kids? http://bookgoodieskids.com/

I have one permafree book wide on the US market. I am getting around 40-60 downloads per day on Amazon and wonder if this is a good number or if I should advertise more?

This summer my print books started to sell well in Europe. They earn more than the ebooks now, so I can recommend to try it out.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

I just released my first book, which is aimed mostly at kids. I will be looking at this thread with great interest! 
I only became aware, after writing several in this series, that the kids books market was a real tough nut to crack for indies. Oh well, I've done it now!


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

Roman said:


> Did anyone try Book Goodies Kids? http://bookgoodieskids.com/


Yeah, having just had a poke around there, I'm interested to know this too from anyone who's used them. Worth paying the cash and signing up?


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I just released my first book, which is aimed mostly at kids. I will be looking at this thread with great interest!
> I only became aware, after writing several in this series, that the kids books market was a real tough nut to crack for indies. Oh well, I've done it now!


I love the cover. I'll definitely check it out!



> Hi everyone. Thanks for this topic, it's not easy to find informations about children books. I hope you can help with some issues I have with my children books. I read the whole thread but I'm still very confused.
> I have written four picture books and I embeded the text into the images as the images have been designed from the start to have the text embeded. I created an epub with Calibre, and I uploaded the books. Of course as you all know, and I didn't, it doesn't look good to any device. I read that I should do the epub with Draftdigital, I tried it, but the result wasn't better.
> Then I read this thread and I understood that what I'm looking for is to create a reflowable book.
> And there is my problem. What do I need to do this kind of books, if my assumption is right?
> ...


I've developed my own tool that I will be making available to children's book authors. It will be completely web-based (currently it's a command line tool). In the meantime, Sigil is worth checking out. (It's free, BTW.)


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I love the cover. I'll definitely check it out!


Oh, thanks very much!


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## Simplehistory (Dec 9, 2014)

Just want to update maybe inspire? the children's writers on here.

I write the Simple History books and have a pretty good website going with writers helping me out. I may also be getting a deal in China. 

http://simplehistory.co.uk/

I would love to collaborate or put your book on my website under friends, if any authors are interested. These things work by cross collaboration !


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Just want to update maybe inspire? the children's writers on here.
> 
> I write the Simple History books and have a pretty good website going with writers helping me out. I may also be getting a deal in China.
> 
> ...


Wow. What an incredible website!

If you want to add my book, that would be great. As for collaborations, what are your ideas?



> Thank you. I appreciate your answer. I'm just not yet in the clear about what do I have to do exactly. Will it work with my text embeded in the picture or will I have to separate them? I'm afraid I'm a little clueless about all this. I Know how to format my text books, but I have no idea what I'm looking for about the children books.


There are people on Fiverr who can do this for you for a nominal fee (i.e., $5). Once you have the EPUB, you can unzip the archive, study it, and use it as a template for future projects. I can also do this for you, but I'm about to go on vacation and time is limited.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

7seasonsgirl said:


> Thank you. I appreciate your answer. I'm just not yet in the clear about what do I have to do exactly. Will it work with my text embeded in the picture or will I have to separate them? I'm afraid I'm a little clueless about all this. I Know how to format my text books, but I have no idea what I'm looking for about the children books.


When you say that you have text embedded in the picture, you mean that the text is actually part of the image, right? If so, switching to a reflowable e-book isn't going to solve anything, other than potentially having duplicate text. The images will still be the same, still with text that does not reflow. If you add non-image text, it will reflow but it won't appear where the existing text does, it will appear outside the frame of the image, duplicating what appears in the images. The only way to get the text out of the image to be treated as text rather than as part of the image is to edit the image -- which, if you want to do that, will depend on how the images were created to begin with. It might be very easy and effective, or it could be difficult and leave obvious traces in the images. It depends on a variety of factors.

Have you tried the children's book creator that Amazon provides? It's free software, and it is oriented around fixed layout books. You import your images and then add the "zoom text" (don't recall off-hand the proper name for it) where the existing image text is, allowing non-image text to appear larger. It's more easily understood when you see it than from how I'm explaining it. I have not used the tool other than a brief evaluation, and am not sure of the precise name but I think it's Kindle Kid's Book Creator. Something like that, at least. With luck, you could also take output from that and convert it (e.g., in calibre) to ePUB if you want to have that format for non-Amazon platforms. Since I haven't tried it myself, I'm speculating about that conversion.

There are still significant limitations in current e-reading environments for picture books. If I was going to republish mine, I would probably do it as an app rather than a "book," just to have full control over the reader's experience.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

7seasonsgirl said:


> Thanks so much for your input. To be honest I do't really know if I use the right terminology. I had the images created and I had the text separately. I used Photoshop to put the text on the space I had left empty for the text and I saved this new image as a JPEG. I opened a word file, I put the dimensions I had the images made and uploaded each page. Then I tried to make an EPUB from the word file and I uploaded to Amazon and other retailers. But as I said it doesn't work. Now I really don't know what to do. I have the images without text so if I have to put the text outside, I guess it wouldn't be a problem, but I prefer the text to be on the image. If you think it can help here is the link on Amazon. http://amzn.com/B00AP7Q3RW You can check how it appears with the Click Inside feature.
> I would really like to hear what you think would be the best way to go. I will try the tool you mention and see if I can understand how it works.Thanks again for your help.


OK, that all makes sense and it's good news that you also have the images without text.

I'm sorry you tried using Word, I would never recommend that to anyone for any e-book -- not just because it's an inferior tool for book development (which I consider it to be) but because it's designed for page output rather than screen output. It's suitable for creating a PDF, because PDFs are also page-oriented, but not for creating ePUBs.

If you don't like the results from the Kindle Kids' Book Creator, which creates a fixed-layout e-book, I would recommend Sigil as a free way to create a reflowable e-book. When using Sigil it helps to understand that an ePUB or Kindle e-book is basically an encapsulated Web site -- the file formats and internal file structure are basically the same. By default, Sigil will give you folders within the ePUB for images, style sheets, fonts, etc., as well as a folder for "text." The text folder contains the HTML files that define the book1, and those files just reference content (images, etc.) in the other folders. You could start by importing your images (without text) into the "Images" folder, then create HTML files in the "Text" folder to show them. This sounds technical, but most or all of it can be done without looking at any of the HTML coding.

Once you create your book, in whatever tool works for you, I highly recommend using the Kindle Previewer software (also free from Amazon) to preview it. This way you don't have to upload files to a site just to find out that it didn't turn out the way you want, and if you create an ePUB then opening it in Kindle Previewer will automatically convert to a MOBI file before going into preview mode.

FWIW, I do offer formatting services, but not of the $5-to-run-scripts kind. I have several projects in my queue right now, but if you really get stuck you're welcome to contact me for more detailed assistance. You can definitely do all of it on your own, but the various tools do take some time to learn.

1 Edited to add: Technically, the book is "defined" by XML files within the ePUB. Those XML files indicate what HTML files to display and in what order. However, this is all handled seamlessly by Sigil so you don't need to think about it much, other than that you do want to right-click on the HTML files in the Text folder and use the Add Semantics option to specify the purpose of each file. In the semantics list, "Text" should be assigned to page 1 of the story. You will also want to fill out the basic info in the Metadata Editor, available via the Tools menu.


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## Jerri Kay Lincoln (Jun 18, 2011)

7seasonsgirl said:


> Thanks so much for your input. To be honest I do't really know if I use the right terminology. I had the images created and I had the text separately. I used Photoshop to put the text on the space I had left empty for the text and I saved this new image as a JPEG. I opened a word file, I put the dimensions I had the images made and uploaded each page. Then I tried to make an EPUB from the word file and I uploaded to Amazon and other retailers. But as I said it doesn't work. Now I really don't know what to do. I have the images without text so if I have to put the text outside, I guess it wouldn't be a problem, but I prefer the text to be on the image. If you think it can help here is the link on Amazon. http://amzn.com/B00AP7Q3RW You can check how it appears with the Click Inside feature.
> I would really like to hear what you think would be the best way to go. I will try the tool you mention and see if I can understand how it works.Thanks again for your help.


My first children's books were created with Word before I started using Scrivener. And I embedded the text . . . and subsequently had to remove it all! It was a drag, but tedious more than anything. If you have the original image and just added the text on in photoshop . . . go back and remove the text. Save the image without it. Then, add the new textless image into Word and add the text on the bottom or top or wherever you want it. If there is a way to get it into the space you have reserved on the image, I don't know what that is. I clipped the image and put the text beneath it or above it. Then I used Calibre and Sigil for the finished product. But I would HIGHLY recommend giving Scrivener a try. There are videos out there to make it easier. Now, I don't know how I ever did without it.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Matthew Stott said:


> I just released my first book, which is aimed mostly at kids. I will be looking at this thread with great interest!
> I only became aware, after writing several in this series, that the kids books market was a real tough nut to crack for indies. Oh well, I've done it now!


Congrats on the new release! Get writing the next book! In my experience one book does pretty much nothing on its own, you need to write another and another and ... 

I LOVE your cover, BTW! Awesome!

I signed up for Book Goodies Kids last year, but honestly didn't notice a difference in sales. *shrug*

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Can we talk a bit about translations? Especially for chapter and middle grade books? I know Scott has done some translations of his picture books. Anyone else have some experience to share?

Thanks!

Rue


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

ruecole said:


> Congrats on the new release! Get writing the next book! In my experience one book does pretty much nothing on its own, you need to write another and another and ...
> 
> I LOVE your cover, BTW! Awesome!
> 
> ...


Thanks very much! And yeah, on to the next book! I made sure I had the next one written before launching, so will hopefully have it out by the end of next month.


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## Simplehistory (Dec 9, 2014)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Wow. What an incredible website!
> 
> If you want to add my book, that would be great. As for collaborations, what are your ideas?
> 
> There are people on Fiverr who can do this for you for a nominal fee (i.e., $5). Once you have the EPUB, you can unzip the archive, study it, and use it as a template for future projects. I can also do this for you, but I'm about to go on vacation and time is limited.


Featuring other peoples books in an other books or friends of simple history section and likewise if you have a blog doing the same


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Matthew Stott said:


> Thanks very much! And yeah, on to the next book! I made sure I had the next one written before launching, so will hopefully have it out by the end of next month.


Oh, well you're smarter than me.  I went with the "let's put out the first book and see how it does first" route, then took forever to write the second book. :/ Ended up putting out the second book a year later after I'd lost a lot of momentum. Not making that mistake with book three!

Rue


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

Rue, your web site is awesome. I love, love the header.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks, Maggie. I gave it a refresh earlier this summer. I think it turned out pretty good. 

Rue


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Can we talk a bit about translations? Especially for chapter and middle grade books? I know Scott has done some translations of his picture books. Anyone else have some experience to share?


Translations are an easy, low cost way to expand your catalog, audience, and income. From the very first day I pursued an international audience. Some titles worked out very well, others not so much. In the long run, I'll make back my investment several times over.

It's a no-brainer, and Fiverr is your friend.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> It's a no-brainer, and Fiverr is your friend.


I've been considering this for awhile, but I'm not sure how to verify the translation is correct. Do you just trust the translator, or do you have another one verify the first one's work? I really don't want to send out something with translation errors or awkward phrasing that would be obvious to a native speaker.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

7seasonsgirl said:


> When I upload an Epub for an adult book, the page fits the screen I read on, why the same doesn't happen with the pages of the children book since I saved it as a word page?


This is the essence of reflowable text. It's all about shapes, and is a bit like trying to put a round peg in a square hole. The page you see in Word is the round peg, the screen of the e-reading environment (device, app, etc.) is the square hole. Even if the round peg is small enough to fit inside, it won't fill the square completely.

But since neither page nor screen is round, let's call the Word page a perfect square peg and the e-reader screen a rectangle that is more tall than wide (i.e., not square). Assuming the square peg is small enough to fit in the rectangle, it won't fill it, some of the rectangle will be empty. If the e-reader has reflowable text to work with, it can change the shape of the peg into a rectangle that fills the screen, by moving words around. That can't be done with an image -- making it fit will stretch and/or squish it, distorting it, or push some of the image off the screen ("cropping"). So the e-reader doesn't do that, leaving some of rectangle empty. It preserves the shape ("aspect ratio") and shows the whole image, but by doing so it cannot possibly fill the screen.

Technically, it is possible to stumble upon combinations of input content and e-reader display where the shapes match and the screen is filled, but that is very specific to the e-reader display. Let's say it worked perfectly on a Kobo Glo HD -- the exact same book might not fill the screen on a Kindle DX. (I don't know the aspect ratios of those two screens, but I'm guessing they're different.)

Another shape mismatch that you might be familiar with is seeing "black bars" on your TV when a show doesn't fill the screen. Same problem, just different content.

This is also why trying to go from the page-oriented design of a word processor to the screen-oriented design of an e-reader is not the best approach, because you can virtually guarantee that what you see in the word processor will _not_ be what you get in your e-book. Reflowable layouts will (generally, depending on content) adapt to fill the screen in ways that are specific to the environment where they are displayed, which will be completely different from the word processor environment. Fixed layouts do not adapt and the content within will look much better to some readers than others. Either way, the fundamental page vs screen difference leads to a lot of frustration and confusion that can be avoided by not using a word processor (except for very basic, text-only content going into a reflowable layout... and maybe not even then).


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> I've been considering this for awhile, but I'm not sure how to verify the translation is correct. Do you just trust the translator, or do you have another one verify the first one's work? I really don't want to send out something with translation errors or awkward phrasing that would be obvious to a native speaker.


First, pick someone who is highly rated or featured on Fiverr. Second, if you don't have a native-speaking friend on Facebook, find at least two other native speakers on Fiverr or FiveSquids to verify the quality of the translation. You should be fine once you have two other highly rated readers verify it. Having family members do your translations isn't the best idea, though.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

7seasonsgirl said:


> I saw that the size of the file had increased and I couldn't anymore price it as I wanted. It was 5.5MB instead of 1.49MB that was my epub.


Since I have not used that tool for an actual project, I'm not sure what it's doing. I do know that when I convert an ePUB to MOBI with Amazon's software it creates a large file -- but that file size doesn't seem to directly factor into the delivery price. It almost sounds like you have the opposite situation, which is very strange. When I get back to my desk later today I will take a look at some things to see if I get any ideas that might help.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> First, pick someone who is highly rated or featured on Fiverr. Second, if you don't have a native-speaking friend on Facebook, find at least two other native speakers on Fiverr or FiveSquids to verify the quality of the translation. You should be fine once you have two other highly rated readers verify it. Having family members do your translations isn't the best idea, though.


Okay, cool, that makes sense. I might get started on this today even.  My main interest is in trying to reach the massive Chinese market, but unfortunately I've heard that piracy is really prevalent there (at last within China itself) so it might not be as lucrative as it seems. Maybe I should start with something simpler but still with a good international market.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Your explanations are really clear and useful. Thank you. I took your advice and worked with the Amazon tool and I was happy for about two minutes. It worked fine on the four devices it let me check it, and I would download it to my android tablet and ask someone with an apple device to check it, when I saw that the size of the file had increased and I couldn't anymore price it as I wanted. It was 5.5MB instead of 1.49MB that was my epub.
> 
> So now I'm stucked again. If someone knows which is the lowest resolution I can go with the images so I won't lose the quality, it would be helpful. What Amazon asked me to do was to upload a pdf file with all the images and the cover included or as a jpeg and then it made a MOBI file and I uploaded the MOBI file on KDP. So I don't know when the increase of the size occurred. The MOBI file isn't 5,5MB, it's only 16KB
> 
> I think that it may work if I decrease the size of each image and then make the PDF but I'm not even sure about that. I also tried to transform the MOBI file from Amazon in EPUB, but it doesn't work at all. In any case it was a good idea to work with Kinds Book Creator. It looked great on the devices and I didn't have to put the text poutside the images.


That's a good reason not to use the Kindle Kids' Book Creator. File sizes are bloated and you don't get the generated source files that you can tweak, only the massive MOBI.

16 KB also doesn't sound right. Your book is full of pictures, right? That sounds like the size of the text only.

Decreasing the size of each image might not work out like you think. I tried to compress a complicated title, Taming Your Pet Monster: An Operational Guide, and although dramatically lowering the resolution, it only resulted in a file .1 MB less. Amazon's compression is so good during the upload process that some gains may only be marginal. By all means try it, though. It might work better for certain titles.

If you want to get it right the first time and have something vastly superior to your early efforts, pay someone to do it and demand the source code. That's the best way to go. If you have time to master Scrivener, great. That may be able to do everything for you. Sigil is good, but has limitations. Vellum sounds interesting if you have Mac. Dreamweaver is perfect if you know what you're doing.

But spare your sanity when you can.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Okay, cool, that makes sense. I might get started on this today even.  My main interest is in trying to reach the massive Chinese market, but unfortunately I've heard that piracy is really prevalent there (at last within China itself) so it might not be as lucrative as it seems. Maybe I should start with something simpler but still with a good international market.


Apple's China store just opened, and I get the sense that Amazon's is on the way in the not-so-distant future. But yes, expect your book to be copied (Google fake Apple store as an example). If you want a good market, look no further than Germany. French is excellent since it is so widely used with two major audiences (France and Canada). The Italian children's book market is surprisingly good, and the Spanish market does better in the U.S. than abroad.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> That's a good reason not to use the Kindle Kids' Book Creator. File sizes are bloated and you don't get the generated source files that you can tweak, only the massive MOBI.


The Kindle Kids' Book Creator (KKBC) puts the sources in the same folder as the MOBI where they can be modified outside of KKBC. They can also be imported into an ePUB. A simple script could do this fairly easily and quickly to get a basic starting point, although if ePUB was the goal then I would start from there rather than using a KKBC MOBI as a source.

Edited to add: After using the save-for-publishing from KKBC, calibre opens the MOBI and can convert it to ePUB also -- although still not the route I would take if ePUB was the goal from the beginning.



7seasonsgirl said:


> Thank you. If you have any information that can help it would be great. I was wrong about the MOBI file size. It is 16.918 KB. As for the price,I wanted to have the first book at 0.99 and it's not possible because of the size. I can have it at 1.99 but the delivery cost will be high, so again it's problematic.


OK, so the MOBI from the Kindle Kids' Book Creator is about 16.5MB? That makes more sense -- because it stores both a regular MOBI version and a KF8 version, so it has two copies of your book in it. However, that is not what Amazon delivers to readers and not how the delivery cost is calculated. It's not possible to determine what size they will use for delivery cost calculation without uploading the file and then checking the Rights & Pricing tab.

Also, as Amazon says, "Delivery costs... apply if you select the 70% Royalty Option for your book." You can't price below $2.99 without choosing the 35% royalty option, so if you're selecting that option for lower pricing, delivery costs don't apply anyway.

I think they've recently changed the minimum pricing based on book size, though, because I'm pretty sure I was able to set mine to 99 cents before and now the lowest I can go is $1.99. This is why I wasn't able to take part in the recent group promo.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

As an added data point, the MOBI of my children's book (_Two Boys, Two Planets_) that was converted to MOBI from ePUB, using KindleGen (within Kindle Previewer), was 38.8MB. The actual size I'm charged for delivery costs, since I did choose the 70% royalty option, is only 3.13MB. This illustrates how the MOBI file size on your computer is mostly irrelevant, other than the time it takes to upload.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> As an added data point, the MOBI of my children's book (Two Boys, Two Planets) that was converted to MOBI from ePUB, using KindleGen (within Kindle Previewer), was 38.8MB. The actual size I'm charged for delivery costs, since I did choose the 70% royalty option, is only 3.13MB. This illustrates how the MOBI file size on your computer is mostly irrelevant, other than the time it takes to upload.


But what about users with older devices that don't have a lot of space?


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> But what about users with older devices that don't have a lot of space?


Amazon automatically delivers the correct format to them -- readers don't have to download both.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Amazon automatically delivers the correct format to them -- readers don't have to download both.


Huh? I don't follow.

Your book is a whopping 20 MB, but should be a tenth of that size (2-3 MB). Readers might not want these huge files on their devices (even the compressed estimate), and I can't blame them. We should try to keep file sizes as low as possible so that readers have space for more books, preferably ours. It might not seem like a problem since many of the newer devices have lots of storage, but what about readers who are still using Kindle e-ink devices?

Please don't take my comments the wrong way. I like my software (i.e., e-books) lean and mean. This mindset actually comes from my early days of ColecoVision/ADAM programming.

EDIT #1: BTW, here's a Norwegian picture book that I just published today:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016FL9KBW

It's ~45 pages in all, and the main story has 30 pages of embedded text. Each page is a 1200 X 1600 JPG compressed at 40% with Pixelmator (iMac). There are additional graphics as well, but they are a bit smaller. The total file size is 2.2 MB, which allows me to list my book for 99 cents. This extra space enables me to add backmatter promotions while still remaining below the 3 MB threshold for 99-cent e-books. While the EPUB is 2.9 MB, MOBI Pocket Creator was able to shave off an additional .7 MB, and that's just with standard compression.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Huh? I don't follow.
> 
> Your book is a whopping 20 MB, but should be a tenth of that size (2-3 MB).


As I said, it _is_ about 3MB, at least that is what Amazon is charging for the delivery fee, which is probably based on the MOBI version rather than the KF8 version. But Amazon has both (as built by KindleGen) and automatically delivers the correct format according to the reader's device or app. This was explained when KF8 was first released -- which, if I recall correctly, was when the first Fire tablet came out.



S.E. Gordon said:


> Readers might not want these huge files on their devices (even the compressed estimate), and I can't blame them. We should try to keep file sizes as low as possible so that readers have space for more books, preferably ours.


And they don't have the large files on their devices. It doesn't make sense to eschew the use of Amazon's own software in developing Kindle books. They know their business and how to treat customers in a way that makes the customer happy.

I also like lean code, I started programming on a TRS-80 Model III and also did some programming on a VIC-20 with 4K of RAM. But that was then and this is now, and since Amazon is handling the customer side, we should be focused on providing the best possible content we can manage using the tools Amazon provides.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm currently digitizing (re-typing/formatting) my already-written 12-book series of illustrated graded English readers for children and am struggling to get this stuff right so I can publish the books for Kindle and CreateSpace.

My (limited) understanding is that for images to appear in a Kindle book with flowable text, the images should *ALWAYS* be centered and placed between the flowable text blocks. Text has to be flowable so that it can be read on devices with small screens.

Is that correct? Embedding images within text (or surrounding an image with text) for Kindle is not possible unless the text+image is a jpg picture and therefore the text is not flowable?

However, embedding images within text is possible for CreateSpace paperbacks since those pages are not designed to be flowable.

Is that correct, or am I way off here?

Thanks.

Philip


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Philip Gibson said:


> My (limited) understanding is that for images to appear in a Kindle book with flowable text, the images should *ALWAYS* be centered and placed between the flowable text blocks. Text has to be flowable so that it can be read on devices with small screens.
> 
> Is that correct? Embedding images within text (or surrounding an image with text) for Kindle is not possible unless the text+image is a jpg picture and therefore the text is not flowable?
> 
> However, embedding images within text is possible for CreateSpace paperbacks since those pages are not designed to be flowable.


Mostly correct, although images in a Kindle book do not need to be centered and they may have reflowable text to the left or right. This is a design issue that depends on what you want. If you are working with large images (e.g., "full page" images for the print version) then having text on the side won't be useful, but if you have small illustrations within the reflowable text it may look better if they're set to one side or the other instead of being centered with nothing on either side.


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## Simplehistory (Dec 9, 2014)

Just opened this page for affiliation.

http://simplehistory.co.uk/fans/

I will feature other writers' books as 'friends' if they are suitable for 9-12 age group


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## Roberto El Duque (Mar 4, 2015)

I have just published the first 2 books in my new picture book series. Now that they are live on Amazon I seem to have a potential formatting issue.
Specifically the "look inside":

Mine looks terrible - the preview is too large, taking up more than the width of the popup. The books look great on all devices I have checked them on, but look poor here and I am worried customers will be put off. The provisional research I have done, suggests that "look inside" doesn't play well with fixed layout books, but it would resolve itself once the print and kindle versions were linked. However as of this morning the two versions are linked but the look inside is still the same.

Any ideas if this is something I need to change on the formatting end myself, or is it a Zon issue that I need to ask them to fix?

I have noticed on a previous publication that when I update things in KDP that are unrelated to the book file itself, sometimes look inside gets changed (number or selection of pages shown) but after a day or so it seems to default to normal. So I am confused as to Amazon's process with this and suspect it is automatic in the first instance and then checked/changed by a human at some point afterwards? Is that correct?

Any help would be greatly appreciated...


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

I'd contact Author Central about it. They deal with linking the product pages, I believe. And seem to be quicker and more helpful than trying to contact KDP or CS.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Roberto El Duque (Mar 4, 2015)

ruecole said:


> I'd contact Author Central about it. They deal with linking the product pages, I believe. And seem to be quicker and more helpful than trying to contact KDP or CS.
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Rue


Thanks, for that I'll bear it in mind. I emailed KDP before you posted and they told me they are looking at it and it should be sorted by close of business today, so I will see how it goes first...


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## Roberto El Duque (Mar 4, 2015)

I have been thinking about the possibilities of producing a multi author box set of chldren's picture books. However I quickly realised that due to the resultant file size and associated download charge / minimum charge, such a book would have to be priced very high and therefore would not sell very well.

As a workaround, do you think that Amazon would allow a book of "samplers", whereby a customer receives a 40 page book containing the first few pages of a number of stories, each of which is followed by a link to a free download of the rest of that story from the creator's website?

Second question: If Amazon allow it, will this model work with customers?


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Roberto El Duque said:


> Second question: If Amazon allow it, will this model work with customers?


My kids are all late-teen and adult now, so past the children's book stage, but from what I recall about the _many_ books we bought for them when they were younger, I don't think this would have worked for us. In approximate order of frequency and effectiveness, discovery of new books was based on word of mouth, finding books at the library, and (much more rarely) seeing books in a store. And, as I'm sure is typical, my wife and I shared with our kids the books we loved as kids. If someone had offered a book of samples, I don't think I'd have been interested unless it also had word-of-mouth going for it. In other words, if a friend or family member said "hey, check this out" then I might have, but seeing it just from the publisher, probably not.

I don't mean to be too discouraging, I'm just one parent and no longer an active buyer. (No grandchildren yet!) If you know parents who currently have kids in the range you want to target, you might sound them out about it. If the prospects look good enough to invest the time and effort, then go for it!


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Question regarding book promoters:

Have you guys had any success recently with GenrePulse, Bargain Booksy, or Ebook Hounds for a $0.99 promo?

Thanks!

Rue


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2015)

how is everyone doing?

My print books were doing great when I launched them back in October. But during the Christmas holidays my sales died down and haven't recovered. Ebooks were selling well at the beginning of January but they are now down to zero as well.

Last autumn I removed all my books from KU. For a while, my German books were doing well since they were getting promoted but once it was over I ended up with zero sales. I decided to put the French and German books back into KU, although I dislike the idea. Amazon offered me a special contract for children's authors, but it was even more insulting than KU2 and non negotiable.

I will start a BKNights promotion. Does anyone have other suggestions where to promote free children's books? I tried Ebookhounds but I think that I had less than 100 downloads.

Is anyone doing well since the KU changes?

I contacted [email protected] I received a phone call from a supervisor but he just spoke some empty words and assured that they are aware of the situation.


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## thenotoriousjed (Aug 15, 2015)

Roman said:


> how is everyone doing?
> 
> My print books were doing great when I launched them back in October. But during the Christmas holidays my sales died down and haven't recovered. Ebooks were selling well at the beginning of January but they are now down to zero as well.
> 
> ...


I used freebooksy in November and on a Friday managed over 600 downloads on the first book in my dragon series. Outside of that haven't found too many good places for kids' book promos. Just started a promotion with Facebook ads today. Not sure how it will go.

I have started my own promotion site for books that's in my signature but still a tiny speck now.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

katc said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I hope you're all doing well.
> Would you like to share your children's book covers and or website banners? I just created a page on my site entitled Awesome Authors. This page is for all the great children's authors out there. I don't get a major amount of traffic...yet, but thought it would be fun. It would be great if I could post your cover or banner on my site with a link back to your site or amazon author page. Free & no strings attached.
> ...


Your website is awesome! Thanks so much for offering to feature book covers for children's books by other authors. I'll email mine to you tonight.

*UPDATE:* I sent you an email. Thanks again!


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## thenotoriousjed (Aug 15, 2015)

katc said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I hope you're all doing well.
> Would you like to share your children's book covers and or website banners? I just created a page on my site entitled Awesome Authors. This page is for all the great children's authors out there. I don't get a major amount of traffic...yet, but thought it would be fun. It would be great if I could post your cover or banner on my site with a link back to your site or amazon author page. Free & no strings attached.
> ...


Hey Kat. I got your email and will get my covers sent over to you a little later. Can you link to my review site as well? Appreciate it.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2016)

Like your covers katc


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

katc said:


> Oh thanks, Marilyn. I really appreciate that.
> I LOVE children's books. I have a collection of MG on my shelf, in my Nook, under the bed, lol.
> And I have a few picture books I cherish on a shelf by themselves.
> I've got your covers up and linked. They look so great btw.
> Sent you an email.  Have a wonderful day!


I love seeing my books on your wonderful site. Thanks so much. I really appreciate that! I'm away from my computer right now, but I'll check my emails tonight. Like you, I also love children's books.


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## MelodieRochelle (Jan 4, 2016)

I have a children's book that I will be publishing after my main series is published. I hope that I won't run into any major problems after it has been released.


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## Simplehistory (Dec 9, 2014)

Short history bites. What do you think of these?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC51...KNyhy_zdQxnGYw


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

Simplehistory said:


> Short history bites. What do you think of these?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC51...KNyhy_zdQxnGYw


OMG! These are fabulous! I would use these to teach in my classroom. The kids loved all the America Rock that I had. It looks like these are the next generation to those. Are there more?


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Anyone have any advice for doing school visits? (Assuming I can overcome my extremely introverted nature.)

My book is a picture book (print only for now) which takes the reader on a tour of Rio de Janeiro (see my sig), and it has plenty of educational content, so I think it would be a pretty easy sell to get in to the schools...I just don't know what to say when I'm in there. 

Should I talk about the culture of Rio and Brazil? The writing process? Just read my book? 

Likely grade levels would be kindergarten through second, maybe third grade. 

Thanks!


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

LectorsBooks said:


> Anyone have any advice for doing school visits? (Assuming I can overcome my extremely introverted nature.)
> 
> My book is a picture book (print only for now) which takes the reader on a tour of Rio de Janeiro (see my sig), and it has plenty of educational content, so I think it would be a pretty easy sell to get in to the schools...I just don't know what to say when I'm in there.
> 
> ...


I just finished a school visit today through Skype in the Classroom.

https://education.microsoft.com/skypeintheclassroom

It's not paid, but you can earn a bit through book sales (I send an order form for the kids to take home). You can also set up Skype visits via your website and ask for a fee, if you don't want to donate your time (some children's authors don't). I went the Skype in the Classroom route because it makes it really easy for teachers to find me. There is another site that you can join to offer paid Skype visits. I haven't signed up yet (only learned about it last week!), but I will be. The more opportunities the better! 

http://skypeanauthor.wikifoundry.com/

If you're interested in doing in person visits (which are also usually paid), there's a wealth of info here:

http://schoolvisitexperts.com/

I've found teachers prefer a presentation that teaches the kids something. I do a short presentation on writing descriptively. In your case, I would definitely create a presentation around Rio and Brazil. And definitely do a reading from the book! My presentation involves a short reading (about 3 minutes) from my book, but I make it part of the lesson (we pick out the figurative language).

You'll want to create a school visit package (see the School Experts link for advice on that) to send to schools. And Google other author's websites for ideas. Many have school visit information there.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Rue, awesome advice, thanks!!! Off to check out those links...


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

LectorsBooks said:


> Rue, awesome advice, thanks!!! Off to check out those links...


No problem! It can be overwhelming when you get started. I've only been doing school visits since last year (Just finished #6 today) and I'm still learning!

Rue


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

ruecole said:


> Hope that helps!


KBoards needs a "like" button.  Thanks for sharing that info.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Crenel said:


> KBoards needs a "like" button.  Thanks for sharing that info.


Glad to help. 

Rue


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## Simplehistory (Dec 9, 2014)

TiffanyTurner said:


> OMG! These are fabulous! I would use these to teach in my classroom. The kids loved all the America Rock that I had. It looks like these are the next generation to those. Are there more?


We've just properly started. But we aim to get episodes out every week.  Likes and sharing helps as does patreon support (https://www.patreon.com/simplehistory?ty=c).

I made them with that in mind, to help teachers get history across much easier. Nice surname btw!


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Simplehistory said:


> Short history bites. What do you think of these?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC51...KNyhy_zdQxnGYw


These are great! The first of my middle-grade time travel books deals with the American Revolutionary War. I made up a themed crossword, a Jumble, even a letter written in code-- just a few things that teachers might give as busy-work to the students as they study that time period. But I really got very little interest from local schools for a visit or anything--even the offer of a free book for the classroom wasn't much help. I did get invited to a Scholastic book fair at one school, but they had the local authors off to the side and most people were 'browsing only.' (Which I understand; kids that age want books they're familiar with, or that their friends are reading, so it's hard to gain any traction.)


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## Simplehistory (Dec 9, 2014)

Jena H said:


> These are great! The first of my middle-grade time travel books deals with the American Revolutionary War. I made up a themed crossword, a Jumble, even a letter written in code-- just a few things that teachers might give as busy-work to the students as they study that time period. But I really got very little interest from local schools for a visit or anything--even the offer of a free book for the classroom wasn't much help. I did get invited to a Scholastic book fair at one school, but they had the local authors off to the side and most people were 'browsing only.' (Which I understand; kids that age want books they're familiar with, or that their friends are reading, so it's hard to gain any traction.)


Yeh I would love to interview customers who bought my books in america and the UK and beyond. Alas there is no such feature. Imagine hearing what they love about your books after purchasing several. 

As for brand? familiarity I think Youtube is very good for this.


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Hey everyone! Did two different school visits in the past week (a kindergarten and third grade from one school, and a first grade from another school) and it was really fun! I'd encourage you all to look into it if that's something you're interested in. Nothing quite like seeing a group of kids getting really excited about something you wrote! 

I think I'll spend the summer getting more official about my school visit packages so I can charge for them, and figuring out Skype author visits, as per Rue's suggestions above. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to share my very limited experience with you.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

LectorsBooks said:


> Hey everyone! Did two different school visits in the past week (a kindergarten and third grade from one school, and a first grade from another school) and it was really fun! I'd encourage you all to look into it if that's something you're interested in. Nothing quite like seeing a group of kids getting really excited about something you wrote!
> 
> I think I'll spend the summer getting more official about my school visit packages so I can charge for them, and figuring out Skype author visits, as per Rue's suggestions above. If anyone has any questions, I'm happy to share my very limited experience with you.


Awesome! Well done! 

Rue


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

ruecole said:


> Awesome! Well done!
> 
> Rue


Thanks! And thanks for your advice! 

Janie

PS Forgot to add link to my blog post about it: https://yellowumbrellatours.com/2016/05/04/first-ever-author-visit/


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## Lyndawrites (Aug 7, 2011)

I don't know whether I've posted this here before - it's late, and I'm old and tired  - but you are welcome to post your e-book links on my FB page: https://www.facebook.com/KindleForKids/


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

Ooh! Thanks for sharing your blog post, Janie. What fun! I loved the kindergartners questions. LOL I've heard about their "questions", so I hear you on skipping those in the future. Definitely the older kids have great questions. I love interacting with the grades 3-6 group. They're so much fun! 

I have to ask, how did you set this up? Did you just stop into the school one day and ask or did you call on the phone or email? Did you bring in some materials, etc.? I'm fairly confident in the Skype department now, but live visits are still something I've yet to brave!

Rue


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Yeah, the kindergarteners cracked me up! I'm used to teaching older students (late high school through early college), and then my own kids are 3 and 1, so these early elementary ages are pretty much uncharted waters for me, so I wasn't at all sure what to expect, but as I said it was fun. 

I think really I just got lucky. I had ordered some promotional postcards from Vistaprint (cheap!) and did a slog through the internet and looked up teacher's names that taught kindergarten through second grade (plus librarians) at all the schools in my town, which worked out to almost exactly one hundred (handy, as I ordered 100 postcards), and mailed them out. That netted me one school visit. 

I also emailed the librarians at about 4-5 different schools before I heard back from one. From what I've heard, that response rate is pretty good, and it probably helps that the school is literally three minutes from my house. 

I did both of these for free, asking for feedback instead of money, and the opportunity to send home order forms with the students. Since it's close to the end of the school year, I was really just trying to get experience, and some feedback to make my presentation better so I'd be in a stronger position next year when I'm hoping to charge. I am dying to write another book, but I can't pay for the illustrations until I sell...a lot more. 

What I've heard is that the best way to get visits set up is to either phone or show up in person, and that the coward's way...I mean emailing, will result in fewer bookings.


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Oh, by the way, I keep meaning to ask you - when you send home order forms with the students, how do you work the logistics of that? Are people physically mailing you checks and order forms? Do you have the teacher collect everything and send you one packet? 

I've had several parents send in cash, which I don't mind in person (SO MANY ONE DOLLAR BILLS!), but I get a little nervous about cash going through the mail.


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

LectorsBooks said:


> Yeah, the kindergarteners cracked me up! I'm used to teaching older students (late high school through early college), and then my own kids are 3 and 1, so these early elementary ages are pretty much uncharted waters for me, so I wasn't at all sure what to expect, but as I said it was fun.
> 
> I think really I just got lucky. I had ordered some promotional postcards from Vistaprint (cheap!) and did a slog through the internet and looked up teacher's names that taught kindergarten through second grade (plus librarians) at all the schools in my town, which worked out to almost exactly one hundred (handy, as I ordered 100 postcards), and mailed them out. That netted me one school visit.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I guess I need to put on my big girl pants and go talk to some schools. LOL

Rue


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

ruecole said:


> Thanks! I guess I need to put on my big girl pants and go talk to some schools. LOL
> 
> Rue


Me too! Although probably I'll play the numbers game first. I live in a mid-sized town near a large city, so there are hundreds of schools within a reasonable driving distance from me. I figure if it takes me five minutes to email and causes zero amount of stress, I might just do that to start with. If I get absolutely no leads from that, then I'll progress to phoning, which will take longer and cause me a large amount of stress!


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

LectorsBooks said:


> Oh, by the way, I keep meaning to ask you - when you send home order forms with the students, how do you work the logistics of that? Are people physically mailing you checks and order forms? Do you have the teacher collect everything and send you one packet?
> 
> I've had several parents send in cash, which I don't mind in person (SO MANY ONE DOLLAR BILLS!), but I get a little nervous about cash going through the mail.


Yes, I get the teacher to collect the money and then send me a payment through PayPal. Once I get the payment, I drop-ship the books to them from Createspace or IngramSpark (depending if they're in the US or Canada). It's worked pretty well so far with the only hitch being a teacher who'd never used PayPal before. But we got it figured out eventually. 

If I was doing a visit in person, I think I'd collect the money from the teacher when I arrived at the school. If it's possible, I'd try to get a count ahead of time so I made sure I had enough books with me (plus a few extras for the stragglers), but I know that may not be always possible. If I didn't have enough, I'd just bring them to the school once I'd ordered them in and signed them (if the school is local, of course).

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

LectorsBooks said:


> Me too! Although probably I'll play the numbers game first. I live in a mid-sized town near a large city, so there are hundreds of schools within a reasonable driving distance from me. I figure if it takes me five minutes to email and causes zero amount of stress, I might just do that to start with. If I get absolutely no leads from that, then I'll progress to phoning, which will take longer and cause me a large amount of stress!


Phoning causes me heart palpitations. LOL I'd rather email or visit in person. How crazy is that?

One thing I've been told is after you do a visit, make sure to tell the teacher if they enjoyed the visit to recommend you to other schools/teachers/librarians.

Rue


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

ruecole said:


> I just finished a school visit today through Skype in the Classroom.
> 
> Rue


This sounds like a great idea, but the only problem I would have with a Skype lesson would be interruptions. I could put a notice on my door, and ask someone to look after the dog (who barks at everyone and everything going past the door) but there's not much I can do when a troop of screaming monkeys decide to use my roof as a war zone!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> This sounds like a great idea, but the only problem I would have with a Skype lesson would be interruptions. I could put a notice on my door, and ask someone to look after the dog (who barks at everyone and everything going past the door) but there's not much I can do when a troop of screaming monkeys decide to use my roof as a war zone!


. That would add local color!

Betsy


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

ruecole said:


> Yes, I get the teacher to collect the money and then send me a payment through PayPal. Once I get the payment, I drop-ship the books to them from Createspace or IngramSpark (depending if they're in the US or Canada). It's worked pretty well so far with the only hitch being a teacher who'd never used PayPal before. But we got it figured out eventually.
> 
> If I was doing a visit in person, I think I'd collect the money from the teacher when I arrived at the school. If it's possible, I'd try to get a count ahead of time so I made sure I had enough books with me (plus a few extras for the stragglers), but I know that may not be always possible. If I didn't have enough, I'd just bring them to the school once I'd ordered them in and signed them (if the school is local, of course).
> 
> ...


That makes sense, thanks!


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> This sounds like a great idea, but the only problem I would have with a Skype lesson would be interruptions. I could put a notice on my door, and ask someone to look after the dog (who barks at everyone and everything going past the door) but there's not much I can do when a troop of screaming monkeys decide to use my roof as a war zone!


Agree with Betsy, great local color, and talk about free publicity - if kids had their lesson interrupted by a troop of screaming monkey, they'd be talking about it for weeks! 

I'd forgotten about my dog, the terrier. She knows when I'm on the phone and acts up, just like my children do. I can only imagine what she would do if she figured out I was trying to act like a professional on a video chat!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

LectorsBooks said:


> Agree with Betsy, great local color, and talk about free publicity - if kids had their lesson interrupted by a troop of screaming monkey, they'd be talking about it for weeks!


Quite likely  But they also set off everyone's dogs! You can hear that the monkeys are getting closer by the way the neighbouring dogs bark, beginning down in the valley and getting closer.
I'm also in fear of them disrupting my ADSL line when they use it as a tightrope!


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

I would totally give it a try and if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. But I think if you allow what *could* happen to dissuade you from giving it a go you'd miss out on golden opportunity. Skype visits are generally 20-30 minutes long. It would have to be a perfect storm of bad timing to get monkeys, doorbell ringers, and barking dogs all at once! LOL

And even if you did, teachers aren't ogres. They understand stuff happens. On my very first Skype visit, the call got dropped 3-4 times. Talk about embarrassing! But the teacher actually apologized to me as if it was her fault!

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

ruecole said:


> I would totally give it a try and if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. But I think if you allow what *could* happen to dissuade you from giving it a go you'd miss out on golden opportunity. Skype visits are generally 20-30 minutes long. It would have to be a perfect storm of bad timing to get monkeys, doorbell ringers, and barking dogs all at once! LOL
> 
> And even if you did, teachers aren't ogres. They understand stuff happens. On my very first Skype visit, the call got dropped 3-4 times. Talk about embarrassing! But the teacher actually apologized to me as if it was her fault!
> 
> ...


Thanks. I will have to think about it. I would also have to work out time zones. And having recently moved to a retirement village I discovered that I am now quite a long way from the telephone exchange and the telephone lines here are quite old and therefore the ADSL line keeps dropping. I've had the technicians out three times to no avail and have to keep a dongle loaded as a back-up when the line drops - which it does about every half hour at least!


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## ruecole (Jun 13, 2012)

That's the beauty of Skype in the Classroom. They work out the time zones for you. You just enter when you're available in your own time zone and Skype displays those times to teachers in their local time zones. And it's worldwide, so if those times won't work for US schools, it may for UK or other schools. 

Rue


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

ruecole said:


> That's the beauty of Skype in the Classroom. They work out the time zones for you. You just enter when you're available in your own time zone and Skype displays those times to teachers in their local time zones. And it's worldwide, so if those times won't work for US schools, it may for UK or other schools.
> 
> Rue


Thanks. I didn't know that!


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

People are seeing some great results with multi-author promos, like the Sci-Fi/Fantasy one that Patty Jansen runs and the Mystery/Thriller one that Renee Pawlish started up. Would there be interest in doing a *multi-author Summer Reading Promo* among children's book writers here (and any children's-book-writing friends we could bring in who may not be KBoards members)? School is almost out for the summer, so a summer-reading theme should be appropriate.

I set up a multi-author promo feature on a new/experimental site, and I would be happy to run a children's book promo to test it out. The site itself isn't limited to children's books, but the promo will only show those books that are specifically added to it, so the promo itself would only show children's books.

Currently the site mostly just has my own books loaded onto it, and I'm still working on it to smooth out some configuration issues. If you would be interested in doing this, go ahead and request an account and then add your books once I approve your account. This site handles promo setup differently -- you add each book once and can then simply apply it to any future promo. All books must be on Amazon, and you only need to enter the ASIN or 10-digit ISBN. Additional retailer links are also accepted.

If there's enough interest I will also start a separate thread here, as I don't want to hijack this one.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Crenel said:


> People are seeing some great results with multi-author promos, like the Sci-Fi/Fantasy one that Patty Jansen runs and the Mystery/Thriller one that Renee Pawlish started up. Would there be interest in doing a *multi-author Summer Reading Promo* among children's book writers here (and any children's-book-writing friends we could bring in who may not be KBoards members)? School is almost out for the summer, so a summer-reading theme should be appropriate.
> 
> I set up a multi-author promo feature on a new/experimental site, and I would be happy to run a children's book promo to test it out. The site itself isn't limited to children's books, but the promo will only show those books that are specifically added to it, so the promo itself would only show children's books.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I would be interested.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I'd be very interested, too.  I'll keep a look out for your thread on the subject.

Philip


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Thanks. I would be interested.





Philip Gibson said:


> I'd be very interested, too. I'll keep a look out for your thread on the subject.


Cool... and I have one author who already signed up and added a book, so it's good to see there is interest. I guess a key question is what the minimum viable number is. I guess the best way is to just go for it and see what we can do. I set up a new thread here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,236493.0.html


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

Had a heck of a time getting a BookBub promotion, but managed to snag one for June 29th. Does anyone else want to piggyback?

Edit: I will be putting together a large children's book promotion, similar to what I've done in the past. Laura Yirak has agreed to participate.


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> Had a heck of a time getting a BookBub promotion, but managed to snag one for June 29th. Does anyone else want to piggyback?
> 
> Edit: I will be putting together a large children's book promotion, similar to what I've done in the past. Laura Yirak has agreed to participate.


Is there a thread where you talk about this? I'd be interested.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Is there a thread where you talk about this? I'd be interested.


This is my first comment after a long hiatus. I will create a separate thread for the promotion soon.

Here's what we did for the last promotion: http://www.halcyon-books.com


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks! Been a crazy week and my brain is fried!


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

The promo on June 18-19 has over a dozen books so far, with ample room for more: http://www.lazysaturdayreads.com/promo


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> The promo on June 18-19 has over a dozen books so far, with ample room for more: http://www.lazysaturdayreads.com/promo


It's great that authors have another tool at their disposal, but I won't be joining.

Mine is a bit different, anyways. Authors can piggyback on my Bookbub promo and get a cut of the traffic.

Also, my sister, mother and grandfather all have books and need help with promotion. They haven't been able to get BookBub ads, so it's time for me to finish the work I began on halcyon-books.com.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

S.E. Gordon said:


> This is my first comment after a long hiatus. I will create a separate thread for the promotion soon.
> 
> Here's what we did for the last promotion: http://www.halcyon-books.com


Will look out for it. Hope it doesn't clash with the LazySaturday one.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Will look out for it. Hope it doesn't clash with the LazySaturday one.


I'm not sure how it would clash. More tools for authors are a good thing.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I'm not sure how it would clash. More tools for authors are a good thing.


Have to watch the FREE or countdown days.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Have to watch the FREE or countdown days.


I didn't pick the date. The 29th is what Bookbub gave me.

Also didn't know there was a promotion for June 18-19. Haven't been here for awhile, so haven't had a chance to catch up.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

S.E. Gordon said:


> I didn't pick the date. The 29th is what Bookbub gave me.
> 
> Also didn't know there was a promotion for June 18-19. Haven't been here for awhile, so haven't had a chance to catch up.


Just meant I'd like to do both if I haven't used up all my Select free days etc.


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Just meant I'd like to do both if I haven't used up all my Select free days etc.


Oh, absolutely. I can see how that would be a problem.

I just got the confirmation yesterday afternoon so even I didn't know I was going to do this.

Take advantage of the opportunity if you can.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> This is my first comment after a long hiatus. I will create a separate thread for the promotion soon.
> 
> Here's what we did for the last promotion: http://www.halcyon-books.com


Looking forward to this.

Hope I will be allowed to participate.

Philip


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Hope I will be allowed to participate.


All children's book authors will be allowed to participate.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

S.E. Gordon said:


> This is my first comment after a long hiatus. I will create a separate thread for the promotion soon.
> 
> Here's what we did for the last promotion: http://www.halcyon-books.com


Good to see you round again Scott. I'll be happy as always to piggyback off one of your promotions 

Now to just choose the right book for it...


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## S.E. Gordon (Mar 15, 2011)

> Good to see you round again Scott. I'll be happy as always to piggyback off one of your promotions
> 
> Now to just choose the right book for it...


Sorry guys and gals. I know it's not ideal having two promotions so close together. Hopefully most of you have an additional book with KDP Select free days left or books that you can discount for the 99-cent showcase. (In fact, Angela Muse will be doing this.) Remember, permafrees are welcome and they don't have to be children's picture books to qualify. It might also be nice to have something for mom, though I'm not exactly sure how that would work. (Keeping that in the back of my mind...)

Also contemplating giving away a physical item. Last year, I gave away a Nintendo 3DS. That's too pricey for this time around, though I have an extra Skylanders that's really cool that I don't know what to do with. Hmm...

So far, Laura Yirak and Angela Muse are onboard. I've also sent out invitations to Sarah Holmlund, Kate Clary (of the My Monster Farts fame) and A.J. Cosmo. We shall see...

Edit: I've added the promotional page here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,237062.0.html

UPDATE: Due to personal reasons, I've decided to cancel the upcoming Kidtastic giveaway.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

For anyone who does not want to participate in the upcoming promotion on LazySaturdayReads.com (June 18-19), you can still potentially benefit from it anyway by adding your book(s) to the site. The promo page includes a link to all children's books that are listed on the site, so potential buyers will have a way to find non-promo books that might interest them. Naturally there is no charge for adding a book, it just needs to be available on Amazon (and other retailer links can be included if your book is not exclusive to Amazon). Book listings don't end after a promo, so if I run future promos from that site any listed books will still be discoverable.


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## LectorsBooks (Apr 30, 2013)

Does anyone have any advice for paid promo places for a picture book (i.e. one that is more of a paper book than an e-book)? My book is about Rio de Janeiro, and I was hoping to attract some attention during the Olympics. Anyone used Google Ads, Facebook Ads, Pinterest Ads, etc. for a physical book? It is available as an e-book, and I've sold a handful of copies, but more by far as a hardcover - and I just okayed the paperback version. Also, FWIW, I'm selling better in the UK than I am in the US, in case there are any UK specific ad sites.


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