# Kindle Unlimited (KU) Strategies Thread (MERGED)



## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I know we have a scoop thread, but instead of discussing the merits, why not brainstorm ways to take advantage of this new opportunity for those of us participating. 

I was already in the midst of writing a series of novellas in a niche genre, and I'm going to continue to do so. I just enrolled The Trouble With Horses in KDP Select and my new release next Friday will also be enrolled. My novellas are 28,000 words long, and priced at $2.99 to $3.25 a piece. Getting those KU reads will make it worth it to me even if I only get $1 a read. 

As far as novels go I think Anne in Arlington had a valid point in the scoop thread. Those who stick with the program are going to be voracious readers. I myself have downed 5 to 6 books in a weekend. I think authors with multiple series will see the best return so that they can put one series in KU and leave another newer series out if they want to. Fans of the author's writing of one series will go buy the other series, but may not buy the next books in the series.

For those of us promoting our books in KU, we can now say "Read it FREE as part of your Kindle Unlimited membership."

Finally, I would go through the files of all of your books in KU and make sure your email list signups and other links are updated. 

Anyone else have some strategies and ideas? 

I'm really glad for the short fiction markets, as now I think essays and short stories will have a valid means to make money. People will be much more willing to read shorter fiction or non-fiction if it's just a part of their $9.99 reading bill.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Thank you for posting a strategies thread. I hadn't considered select in a long time and KU has got me looking at it once again. Time to strategize.


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

Just found out my book is in KU (GOOD MORNING - lol).

More of a question really, since I've never even been in the Prime lending library before.... Do "borrows" affect your sales rank at all? Amazon seems to be treating this like another version of KDP Select from what I can see, so I'm trying to determine all the angles...

(and I base that statement on http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/18/what-kindle-unlimited-means-for-authors/ )


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

I know under the old Select borrows DID count towards sales rank. How much, or what the ratio was, no one knows of course, but I know on Cancelled, when I got a single borrow my sales rank would jump from like the #300,000s of no sales in a few weeks to #200,000s.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

I mentioned it in the other thread, but I agree--I think KU will be fabulous for series, serials, and short fiction writers. Many readers complain about series installments and novellas being too short for the price, or that 2.99/3.99/whatever is too high a price for too low a word count. So with KU, put your series into the program and the reader can read all they want for 9.99. The author of that series gets paid for every book read. The royalty might be lower than what you'd get off a sale of the actual book, but you're still getting income.

I can see this being a huge benefit for someone with a backlist or backlog of short stories too. Put a bunch into Select and a reader can read through your whole backlist for a low price. I know someone like DWS or Kris Rusch wouldn't do it because they don't like the idea of exclusivity, but you could throw a few titles into the mix and diversify the others.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Bookmarking! 

Like I stated in the other thread, I think it could be a great idea to write shorter novellas,  and as Elizabeth pointed out, essays. I too enjoy reading shorter, quick pieces of writing and can totally see KU being really beneficial to those that write them. 

I don't think it's a good idea to have the first book of a serial in KU though, especially if the rest of the series is not. That could upset the reader and cause then to pass over the rest of the series completely. Thus the author gets nothing.


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

I have already decided to chop up my upcoming 350 page book, the first in a new series, into 5 parts. The remaining two installments will now also be their own individual series. When I am finished, I will have 15 new "books" instead of 3. Since I will be paid the same regardless of pricing (re: the global fund), I will price each part at $2.99 to make them look more attractive.

I can play your game, too, Jeff Bezos.


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## IreneP (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks, Elizabeth.  That is good to know.

I'm trying to suss out if this is an overall good thing or...what?  My situation is a little different than a lot of people here because I will have to split whatever small royalty I get with my publisher. {Contemplates SP again}.


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## Baron Bunghole (Jul 6, 2014)

Abuse is my biggest concern. A strategy involving the download of one's entire catalog will be widespread, resulting in several books and/or accounts getting banned. I'm curious how Amazon is going to mitigate the issue. Will we be dinged if our overenthusiastic extended family reads all of our books in a short period of time? Certainly it could look like a staged operation, even if no malice is intended.

Your thoughts, respectfully?


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

Baron Bunghole said:


> Abuse is my biggest concern. A strategy involving the download of one's entire catalog will be widespread, resulting in several books and/or accounts getting banned. I'm curious how Amazon is going to mitigate the issue. Will we be dinged if our overenthusiastic extended family reads all of our books in a short period of time? Certainly it could look like a staged operation, even if no malice is intended.
> 
> Your thoughts, respectfully?


I do not think it will be quite that easy to "game" KU. I assume they already have measures in place to assure that you have actually read the book by the speed of your page turns. I cannot imagine someone sitting there clicking to turn a page every minute until they reach the required 10%.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Baron Bunghole said:


> Abuse is my biggest concern. A strategy involving the download of one's entire catalog will be widespread, resulting in several books and/or accounts getting banned. I'm curious how Amazon is going to mitigate the issue. Will we be dinged if our overenthusiastic extended family reads all of our books in a short period of time? Certainly it could look like a staged operation, even if no malice is intended.
> 
> Your thoughts, respectfully?


I'm not sure I understand your concern. It's an unlimited program. I think binge reading will be expected or even welcomed. If someone can read 40 of your titles in a month, rock on. That's not abuse; that's using the unlimited service.

Tangentially, I wonder if KU will help cut down on the serial returners that many have mentioned being an issue.


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## Jonathan C. Gillespie (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm very skeptical. This seems like another way to shoehorn authors into Select, which lowers readers' choices and ability to read books on the platforms they wish. I don't want 'Zon utterly dominating the ebook market, for a variety of reasons. If they were smart, they would have marketed this to authors as an opt-in service, like borrowing. Instead, Amazon is being ruthless. Their continued obsession with exclusivity says volumes about them compared to their competitors.

What would happen if Amazon becomes the only fish in the water? And do you really want your fiction's success so influenced by a single company that uses tactics like this? I thought breaking the single point of acceptance was why so many of us got into this method of publishing.

No offense meant to anyone, of course.


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## Stephen T. Harper (Dec 20, 2010)

It's very interesting.  I just went permafree with my first in a series, so I will definitely let that strategy play out for while.

But this absolutely makes me think about the benefits of putting the whole series in Select.  The share of 2M is the same as the royalty on 2.99, more or less (maybe more?).

One thing about having books in and other books out:  With streaming Netflix and Amazon Prime, I very rarely watch something I have to pay for beyond my subscription fees.  Sometimes if it's a movie I really want to see right away, sure.  But usually, there is something else to watch for "free" (that I'm really already paying for).  Lots of choices out there. 

So, even if I really wanted a book not on the service I'm already paying for , I might assume it will come to the service later, and I could wait.  In this case, I might be wrong and it will never come.  But I will have forgotten about it and moved on by then.  Just something to consider.

Also, I have "sold" no books on Scribd in a month.  COmpletely invisible there.  I doubt that will be the case at Amazon's version.


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## BlairErotica (Mar 1, 2014)

The abuse issue shouldn't arise. Amazon doesn't care if it is your family who reads the books, just as your family buying multiple copies of all your books would be welcomed with open arms. Hurrah for you. If they subscribe and do all of your books and then drop out of the program, flags might (should) go up, but if they stay in the program, Amazon wins.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I like the idea of writing a novella for KU pointing readers toward the rest of the series. Or maybe even short stories. I have a couple that I haven't put up for sale yet.

I'm definitely curious to see how this plays out.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I like this because I like writing short and I like writing serials. I don't think I'll be pulling any of my old titles off other channels, but I've had a pretty commercial serial romance bumping around in my head that I might write to put in Unlimited for the first three months. I'll have to see how much time I have, but I do see ways of using this development to my advantage.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

Decisions… Decisions…
I have a decent performing book external to Amazon, but like the idea of reaching more readers.


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## Baron Bunghole (Jul 6, 2014)

> I do not think it will be quite that easy to "game" KU. I assume they already have measures in place to assure that you have actually read the book by the speed of your page turns. I cannot imagine someone sitting there clicking to turn a page every minute until they reach the required 10%.


Already gamed. Picture books, my friend.



> I'm not sure I understand your concern. It's an unlimited program. I think binge reading will be expected or even welcomed. If someone can read 40 of your titles in a month, rock on. That's not abuse; that's using the unlimited service.


So if I reread my entire library of over 100 books in KU, there's no cause for concern? How about my brother? My sister? Mother? Father? Brother-in-law? Sister-in-law? Cousin #1? Cousin #2? Grandmother? Grandfather? Aunt? Uncle? Friends



> Tangentially, I wonder if KU will help cut down on the serial returners that many have mentioned being an issue.


And it does an exquisite job of getting rid of a smattering of free e-books.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

> I'm very skeptical. This seems like another way to shoehorn authors into Select, which lowers readers' choices and ability to read books on the platforms they wish. I don't want 'Zon utterly dominating the ebook market, for a variety of reasons. If they were smart, they would have marketed this to authors as an opt-in service, like borrowing. Instead, Amazon is being ruthless. Their continued obsession with exclusivity says volumes about them compared to their competitors.


That's my impression as well. Note also that Amazon is potentially undercutting per unit royalties for authors, since Unlimited payments come out of the KDP Select fund.


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## AnthonyJMelchiorri (Apr 4, 2014)

Kathelm said:


> That's my impression as well. Note also that Amazon is potentially undercutting per unit royalties for authors, since Unlimited payments come out of the KDP Select fund.


Wait -- I thought I read in the new "Scoop" thread that we get the full royalties for the book, rather than payment akin to one you'd receive from a "Borrow." That differences makes KU a much more powerful incentive for me to jump in Select with my next releases. I'm thinking it'll be good to see how many users jump on this trial and stick with it, because this might dilute the effectiveness of permafree if everything becomes "free."

Edit: Here's where I got that impression from: http://michaelrunderwood.com/2014/07/18/kindle-unlimited/


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

Back to the original OP, I just put my serial series into Select to test the KU waters.  They are all short and normally priced at $2.99.  Even when the first was permafree, the series struggled, so this is a worthwhile experiment.  The royalties I earn are akin to the KOLL/KU share.  This series never really took hold on other platforms.  Ratings were dinged by readers looking for the feel of my other series, and were disappointed (it was a healthy lesson for me on why genre hopping is not such a good idea).  I can't really run any promos due to star ratings sooo... all this to say it is a pretty risk free opportunity for me.  I have posted on Facebook and Twitter that they are available to anyone with KU.  Mentioned on my Bazaar page that they are available.  Hopefully as word spreads about this program, there will be more opportunities to promote it.  And hopefully, too, as people take advantage of this initial 30-day free trial there will be a bit of a gold rush in these early days.  Happy to be an early adopter!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Baron Bunghole said:


> Already gamed. Picture books, my friend.
> 
> So if I reread my entire library of over 100 books in KU, there's no cause for concern? How about my brother? My sister? Mother? Father? Brother-in-law? Sister-in-law? Cousin #1? Cousin #2? Grandmother? Grandfather? Aunt? Uncle? Friends


Gaming the system is usually a losing proposition. Not that some people won't try, I'm sure.


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## Kathelm (Sep 27, 2010)

> Wait -- I thought I read in the new "Scoop" thread that we get the full royalties for the book, rather than payment akin to one you'd receive from a "Borrow." That differences makes KU a much more powerful incentive for me to jump in Select with my next releases. I'm thinking it'll be good to see how many users jump on this trial and stick with it, because this might dilute the effectiveness of permafree if everything becomes "free."


I think that rule is for trad-pubbed only. This is from the e-mail that Amazon sent out this morning.



> KDP authors and publishers who enroll their books with U.S. rights in KDP Select are automatically enrolled in Kindle Unlimited. Inclusion in Kindle Unlimited can help drive discovery of your book, and when your book is accessed and read past 10% you will earn a share of the KDP Select global fund. For the month of July we have added $800,000 to the KDP Select global fund bringing the total to $2 million.


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## VEwoodlake (Jul 11, 2014)

Here's a strategy: shorter erotica. In order to warrant the $2.99 price point, erotica has grown longer of the past year, now typically up close to 10,000 words. But if people can binge read erotica, price point concerns should recede. As a writer, I would focus more on churning out more pieces, which are shorter.


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## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

Baron Bunghole said:


> So if I reread my entire library of over 100 books in KU, there's no cause for concern? How about my brother? My sister? Mother? Father? Brother-in-law? Sister-in-law? Cousin #1? Cousin #2? Grandmother? Grandfather? Aunt? Uncle? Friends


Bots that have been set up to create fake accounts that get around whatever algorithms Amazon uses to determine if they are real people or not?

With a system where an author with a few books can gain more royalties than the monthly fee for Amazon Unlimited, abuse will be very tempting for the unscrupulous. I just hope there is a very sophisticated anti-abuse system in place so those of us who are going about it honestly won't be getting a smaller piece of the pie.

I expect some drama in the first few months though.


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## AnthonyJMelchiorri (Apr 4, 2014)

LisaGloria said:


> Serial book 2-infinity - KU enrolled. Focus on a LONG serial, like a TV show.
> Omnibus edition - Uh, nope. Why bother? It's against TOS because of the permafree and I think omnibusses will wither anyway.


Alright, so I just launched a serial but only the first book is out. I'm thinking I'm going to straight with select for these exact reasons with the rest of the series. Makes sense.

But, I was also considering the stringency of Amazon's Select program. Say, I publish all my serials through select. At the end, I put it together in an omnibus version -- but I *don't* make the omnibus exclusive via Select. Even though the serials are the same content, can't you release the omnibus version on other platforms, thus making your fans happy on B&N, etc, while keeping your serials churning through Select and KU? If that's possible, I'm definitely considering this strategy.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the self-pubbed royalties with KU, Kathelm!


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## ZanaHart (Nov 22, 2013)

Hmm.. I've been thinking of writing shorter stuff but now this will make it work a try...


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## Baron Bunghole (Jul 6, 2014)

> The abuse issue shouldn't arise. Amazon doesn't care if it is your family who reads the books, just as your family buying multiple copies of all your books would be welcomed with open arms. Hurrah for you. If they subscribe and do all of your books and then drop out of the program, flags might (should) go up, but if they stay in the program, Amazon wins.


Well then, I'm announcing a new service. For just $5, I'll read all of your books in Kindle Unlimited over the course of a month so that the reads appear to be legitimate. For another $5, I'll leave a review for my favorite of the bunch, and for another $5, the title of your choosing.

No, I'm not the least bit serious, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this on Fiverr.

Where there's money, there's exploitation. Amazon knows this. How will they combat it?


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Smart marketers would create advertising opportunities for Unlimited books because free and sales prices will become obsolete. The new Unlimited Bookbub anyone?


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Yeah, I don't mean to hijack the scoop thread, the merits/concerns should probably be in a different thread. This is just for authors to help strategize ways to work this new program into their existing publishing career. 

Another idea, start a branch of your mailing list for readers WITH Kindle Unlimited. I'm sure eventually Amazon will also alert readers in the program but a smart author will start now to capture readers who have kindle Unlimited so you can directly let them know when a book is available in the program as an easy breezy "ARC" system. 

I can also see authors banding together to make catalogs of other books in Kindle Unlimited and start publishing that as a helpful guide for readers. Not everyone likes seeing the same old same old presented by the Kindle Algorithms, and by grouping diverse genres, or lesser known authors with known authors, it helps readers with human curation.  If all of hte books are Kindle Unlimited, the readers in that program benefit from a buffet of options to try with a very low cost.


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## Baron Bunghole (Jul 6, 2014)

> I just hope there is a very sophisticated anti-abuse system in place so those of us who are going about it honestly won't be getting a smaller piece of the pie.
> 
> I expect some drama in the first few months though.


My sentiments exactly.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Hmm, I have a couple of "series" (I hesitate to use that term, but it mostly fits) that have three novellas each.  But, nobody's buying them now   so I wonder if it would behoove me to do this program?  I'll have to re-read the announcement for details.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> I can also see authors banding together to make catalogs of other books in Kindle Unlimited and start publishing that as a helpful guide for readers. Not everyone likes seeing the same old same old presented by the Kindle Algorithms, and by grouping diverse genres, or lesser known authors with known authors, it helps readers with human curation.  If all of hte books are Kindle Unlimited, the readers in that program benefit from a buffet of options to try with a very low cost.


Good idea! If some KU authors know of other KU authors in their genre, they can cross-promote on their websites and maybe in their books. "Hey, reader, if you're in KU, you might like these reads too--they're all in KU as well so they won't cost you anything more to try."


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

AnthonyJMelchiorri said:


> But, I was also considering the stringency of Amazon's Select program. Say, I publish all my serials through select. At the end, I put it together in an omnibus version -- but I *don't* make the omnibus exclusive via Select. Even though the serials are the same content, can't you release the omnibus version on other platforms, thus making your fans happy on B&N, etc, while keeping your serials churning through Select and KU? If that's possible, I'm definitely considering this strategy.


As long as the individual titles remained in Select/KU, the omnibus could only be in Select/KU. If you published it outside Select, then the Select content would become non-exclusive. I think Amazon would catch up pretty fast.


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## Bob Stewart (Mar 19, 2014)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> ...I was already in the midst of writing a series of novellas in a niche genre, and I'm going to continue to do so. I just enrolled The Trouble With Horses in KDP Select and my new release next Friday will also be enrolled. My novellas are 28,000 words long, and priced at $2.99 to $3.25 a piece. Getting those KU reads will make it worth it to me even if I only get $1 a read. ....


I think that's the sweet spot. Short stories will probably still be a hard sell, but the advantage of making a six book series of novels into a 12 book series of novellas seems obvious. And, assuming you have some chance of print success, writing them so they could work as 12 ebooks or six paperbacks would be ideal.


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## The world would be prettier with more zebra strip (Apr 20, 2011)

I am going to try this . . .

I have collections and single shorter novellas.

The short novellas I am going to put into kdp select. I have a bunch.

I'll keep the collections off other distributors so the short novellas can be in, but I will not put them in. I have extra bonuses that actually connect these worlds (new hidden scenes, new scenes between books) that you can only get by buying into collections. That way, if the people who read the shorter novellas want that bonus, they have to pay out.

I can let people read my shorter novellas to their heart's desire this way, without sabotaging my collections.

I also don't make squat on other outlets on these when I tried, so I won't make any extra sales.

To shorten it sweetly.
1. Add something cool and exclusive to a collection. Keep it out of select but off other distributors.
2. Sell the individual novellas/short stories with kdp select.

That works for me. No more worry. I'll pop my books that accidently fell out back in. Time to go write!


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

VEwoodlake said:


> Here's a strategy: shorter erotica. In order to warrant the $2.99 price point, erotica has grown longer of the past year, now typically up close to 10,000 words. But if people can binge read erotica, price point concerns should recede. As a writer, I would focus more on churning out more pieces, which are shorter.


Yes, now seems like a good time to get a new pen name out there.... What to do? What to do? I feel like a kid at the carnival gates - which ride to go on first


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## Lefevre (Feb 1, 2014)

You don't get any royalties from KU unless the reader reads 10% of your book and your book is in select.

The 10% rule might be somewhat of a dumb move for Amazon. I think the percentage should be higher.

Due to the fact that reading 10% of a 30 page book is 3 pages, and 10% of a 150 page book is 15 pages, someone could easily game the system by having shorter books.

Is front matter included??

Loading three pages of front matter in a 30 page book that completely sucks on page 5 will still get KU royalty??

I am uncertain if KU downloads will affect an author's rating, and have found nothing about this in the announcement.

It may sound like I have a negative perception of KU, but I don't. 

I really I like that Amazon is developing new things to get ebooks into reader's hands, and burying the big five publishing monopoly. I just hope that Amazon has a "gap filler" in place for this kind of bad behavior.

Certainly more details are on the way...


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

P.J. Post said:


> Also, it might be a great opportunity for taking advantage of Kindle Worlds.


Are the KW stories included in KU? I was planning to dip my toes into KW anyway. If KW is part of KU, even better.


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## Cactus Lady (Jun 4, 2014)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I like the idea of writing a novella for KU pointing readers toward the rest of the series. Or maybe even short stories. I have a couple that I haven't put up for sale yet.
> 
> I'm definitely curious to see how this plays out.


I'm thinking this, too. I'm not in Select (I've only done Select with a couple of my books and was underwhelmed) and I'm not interested in trying to remove my books from all the other sales outlets (I just had my first two sales ever on Kobo!) to put them in Select. And I like having wider distribution. But I'm also really seriously thinking about writing a novella or two to point readers towards my other work, maybe one for my upcoming fantasy-western series and one for my Estelend world books, and putting those in Select and KU.

I just wish I could work faster.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

From the other thread, I have a strategy for surviving until KU fails on its own merits.:



> Luckily, though, I anticipated a honeypot using Select that would screw us all and am now prepared to implement it by September.
> 
> Step 1: Focus on other channels. Just like with Countdown, a ton of people will stampede to the new thing that will ultimately hurt them, thereby reducing competition on other channels. Seeing as the REST OF THE FREAKING WORLD uses these channels, someone needs to accept their waiting eyes and money.
> 
> ...


The only problem is, I expected the screwjob to come in November. guess they learned not to release things that will suppress paid sales during a lucrative sales season after Countdown cratered so many people's November sales.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

Let's keep this thread to discussions of strategies to maximize your benefit, as authors, from KU.  Concerns about the program should be in the Scoop thread.  Snarky personal comments back and forth should not be posted in either thread, or anywhere else for that matter, and have been removed from this one.  Chill, folks.  You know who you are. 

Betsy
KB Mod


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

So who's going to write the first "How To Sell a Million Books in Kindle Select" ebook??


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

A poster named "Doug Dandridge" on Hugh Howey's blog said this, and I thought it was a brilliant idea and cannot believe I did not come up with it (http://www.hughhowey.com/kindle-unlimited/):



> One strategy I am thinking of is doing a new release and not putting it in KDP select for the first 60 to 90 days, when the most sales occur, then switching it over to take advantage of the other programs.


I think this is a brilliant idea. Consider it the same type of release window that movie studios do, releasing their movies into theaters first, then 3 months later (or until the tickets stop selling) and then put it on DVD/cable/Netflix. And since everyone is already comparing KU to Netflix...

What does everyone think?


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

dmac said:


> A poster named "Doug Dandridge" on Hugh Howey's blog said this, and I thought it was a brilliant idea and cannot believe I did not come up with it (http://www.hughhowey.com/kindle-unlimited/):
> 
> I think this is a brilliant idea. Consider it the same type of release window that movie studios do, releasing their movies into theaters first, then 3 months later (or until the tickets stop selling) and then put it on DVD/cable/Netflix. And since everyone is already comparing KU to Netflix...
> 
> What does everyone think?


Makes sense for established indies. For those of us late to the game I say, "Adult swim. Everybody in the pool!"


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

dmac said:


> A poster named "Doug Dandridge" on Hugh Howey's blog said this, and I thought it was a brilliant idea and cannot believe I did not come up with it (http://www.hughhowey.com/kindle-unlimited/):
> 
> I think this is a brilliant idea. Consider it the same type of release window that movie studios do, releasing their movies into theaters first, then 3 months later (or until the tickets stop selling) and then put it on DVD/cable/Netflix. And since everyone is already comparing KU to Netflix...
> 
> What does everyone think?


Unfortunately some of us have less visibility, and the initial 30-60 day period isn't as much of a bonanza as it is for better-established authors. I have a couple of novellas I could enter into KU, but will have to see if it's worth pulling them from elsewhere for the exclusivity.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

I'm in a different place, with a boatload of nonfiction titles (and nearly unlimited nonfiction content not yet pub'd). So I'm tempted to pub a collection of short prescriptive nonfiction (chicken soupy personal experience stuff from days as a vet tech), one for dog, one for cat, price 99-cents, but have links to the "want more DIY pet care advice?" books. 

Hmnnn. That, and include sign ups for the newsletter with incentives for getting something else free. 

thoughts?


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

dmac said:


> I have already decided to chop up my upcoming 350 page book, the first in a new series, into 5 parts. The remaining two installments will now also be their own individual series. When I am finished, I will have 15 new "books" instead of 3. Since I will be paid the same regardless of pricing (re: the global fund), I will price each part at $2.99 to make them look more attractive.
> 
> I can play your game, too, Jeff Bezos.


Wow, this sounds like some great thinking. I'm going to have to really get into this, I can see. I do know that my books are in KU (I noticed this a.m.) but I was so clueless I didn't even really know what that meant as no one asked me.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

As far getting family members and stuff to read, I don't think that would be much of an issue...

The main thing I see is huge incentive to serialize. Say I have a 100,000 word novel. What's to stop me from turning it into five serials at 20,000 words, all KU enrolled, and get five times the borrows as I would with a single novel? Or am I just missing something?

The reader doesn't have to pay extra, and the author makes more. However, if a lot of people do this, it means less money overall for the pot, which would be bad in the long run for everyone.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

kwest said:


> As far getting family members and stuff to read, I don't think that would be much of an issue...
> 
> The main thing I see is huge incentive to serialize. Say I have a 100,000 word novel. What's to stop me from turning it into five serials at 20,000 words, all KU enrolled, and get five times the borrows as I would with a single novel? Or am I just missing something?
> 
> The reader doesn't have to pay extra, and the author makes more. However, if a lot of people do this, it means less money overall for the pot, which would be bad in the long run for everyone.


I like writing short and I like writing serials. Unlimited seems to remove a lot of risk, considering the anti-serial gang out there. But I can imagine that many other writers might see the same incentive I do in going back to a serial model. What we can hope is that the serials will be judged more on their merit and entertainment value than on their length per volume. The thing is, I don't think I'd leave anything in Select indefinitely. It might be a good way to get traction and decent reviews before going back to paid. For this to be a viable model for the long run, Amazon will have to continue to add to the pot or no one will put there books in.


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## jamielakenovels (Jan 14, 2014)

I'd love to partner with other authors that write m/m to do bundles with links to our other books. I think one of the best ways is just sending our mailing list a notice about Kindle Unlimited and encourage them to download our full catalog.  I've tried tweeting about it and I can tell from my bit.ly that that's helping to. Also one by one private messages via Facebook to those who have supported our books in the past (better than just regular Facebook posts)

The only thing I'm concerned with is now it's easy to track downloads based on your marketing efforts. If you do a twitter campaign today and sales skyrocket, then you know it works. But a lot of people download things and don't get around to reading it until months later. So, what will happen is (because it doesn't count as a sale until they've read at least 10%) is that you might work really hard on a marketing campaign this month and see no downloads then next month when you're doing absolutely nothing, suddenly there will be a spike in Kindle Unlimited downloads.  You know?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

jamielakenovels said:


> The only thing I'm concerned with is now it's easy to track downloads based on your marketing efforts. If you do a twitter campaign today and sales skyrocket, then you know it works. But a lot of people download things and don't get around to reading it until months later. So, what will happen is (because it doesn't count as a sale until they've read at least 10%) is that you might work really hard on a marketing campaign this month and see no downloads then next month when you're doing absolutely nothing, suddenly there will be a spike in Kindle Unlimited downloads. You know?


Good insight. It might make an author wonder how important marketing is and how they should partition their efforts between writing, marketing, etc.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

The serial/short story enrollment idea is very intriguing to me right now because I have a series of recurring character shorts which I was considering compiling into an omnibus once the next story is released. The individual stories are not selling well (big surprise there). However, if I put them into KU and remove the individual price barrier, they might do better. There's only one way to find out, of course.


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## Sarah M (Apr 6, 2013)

I am going to try it because I have nothing to lose, and I can get an idea of it's effectiveness. I'll report back.


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## Marilyn Peake (Aug 8, 2011)

All my novels and Kindle Select short stories are in Kindle Unlimited. My plan is to use this opportunity as motivation for me to buckle down and write the series of novels that I have planned for my *Shade* novel and possibly more short stories.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

lala said:


> I'll report back my results too!


Please do. The more information authors have, the better decisions we can all make.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

Kalypsō said:


> I like writing short and I like writing serials. Unlimited seems to remove a lot of risk, considering the anti-serial gang out there. But I can imagine that many other writers might see the same incentive I do in going back to a serial model. What we can hope is that the serials will be judged more on their merit and entertainment value than on their length per volume. The thing is, I don't think I'd leave anything in Select indefinitely. It might be a good way to get traction and decent reviews before going back to paid. For this to be a viable model for the long run, Amazon will have to continue to add to the pot or no one will put there books in.


Agreed, this does sound like a good thing for serial writers. Like others I'll be interested to see how this affects serial writers in the coming months. I more prefer novels, but the information will be interesting indeed!


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## Steve Voelker (Feb 27, 2014)

What's stopping me from chopping up my 500 page novel into 10 parts and cashing in with KU?
The same thing that is stopping me now.
It would suck to read that way. I probably don't have 10 distinct story arcs. The readers (who are smarter that you think, I know, because I am one) would see it as an obvious cash grab and gimmick, regardless of whether it cost them anything extra. The reviews would suffer. The "books" would fall in the ranks. I wouldn't be able to run promos because of the low ratings. 
You see where I'm going.
Basically, if you are not providing the readers with the optimal reading experience, they will treat you the way you tried to treat them.
Sure, some people might be able to make a few bucks this way out of the gate, but there is no way that is a successful long-term strategy.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

The big question for me is how will profits from this "library" compare to that of folks buying your books.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

Whilst I think that this is great (as I write novellas, shorts and series), are we all forgetting something?

People will still be *buying* books; not every reader in the world will join KU; and (at the moment) it's only available for readers on the .COM site.

So, is basing a whole writing/sales strategy on KU not possibly slightly premature?


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Roz Marshall said:


> Whilst I think that this is great (as I write novellas, shorts and series), are we all forgetting something?
> 
> People will still be *buying* books; not every reader in the world will join KU; and (at the moment) it's only available for readers on the .COM site.
> 
> So, is basing a whole writing/sales strategy on KU not possibly slightly premature?


Nah, nothing wrong in brainstorming ideas now!


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## VEwoodlake (Jul 11, 2014)

Roz Marshall said:


> So, is basing a whole writing/sales strategy on KU not possibly slightly premature?


Premature to base a "whole strategy" on? Most definitely.

But I definitely don't want to be on the tail end of the herd should this be a moneymaker. Better to dip some toes into this water early.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

What does KU do to box sets?

I'm preparing a box set of my first three in my Thaddeus Murfee series. I was thinking of selling it for two dollars below what the usual price x 3 would be.  Fair enough. But if those same three are in KU, what is the sense in buying a box set when you can get them all "free" as  KU reader.

Anyone?


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## Carol Davis (Dec 9, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> Are the KW stories included in KU? I was planning to dip my toes into KW anyway. If KW is part of KU, even better.


I don't think so. On my author page, all of my non-KW books show up as being in KU. None of the KW books do.


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

I'd be all for this if they didn't demand exclusivity. This is still not enough reason to re-enroll my books into KDPS. If I wasn't getting sales/downloads at the other retailers, then sure. But I'm starting to do well at B&N, Kobo (amazingly, I went 14 months without a single download, but the day I started going direct, this turned completely around).


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Carol Davis said:


> I don't think so. On my author page, all of my non-KW books show up as being in KU. None of the KW books do.


Thanks, Carol! I joined up with KU as a reader and I'm not finding any KW stories within KU either.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I found Kindle Worlds stories in KU, no problem. I downloaded some by friends of mine, clicked through 11% and returned them.  Did the same for the one book I have in Select.  Might as well have Amazon donate money to people.

This seems eminently exploitable to me. Ha.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

So any book in Select is automatically available in this program?  Interesting.  It is another sign of the "binge" world we're in.  Just like making "House of Cards" available at one shot, this has the potential to make series available in the same way.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

ㅈㅈ said:


> I found Kindle Worlds stories in KU, no problem. I downloaded some by friends of mine, clicked through 11% and returned them


Which KW stories did you find? I've gone through several of the Worlds and haven't seen one available within KU yet.


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## Bob Stewart (Mar 19, 2014)

What's interesting is this is kind of a return to how many books were published in 16th through early 19th centuries. A lot of the books written then we call novels were published in short parts called volumes or books. Tristram Shandy is less than 200,000 words but was published as nine separate volumes. I believe they were paperbacks and buyers would then have them bound however they wished.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Jim Johnson said:


> Which KW stories did you find? I've gone through several of the Worlds and haven't seen one available within KU yet.


Hmm, I thought I had, but I see now it wasn't a KW story. I think you are right, no KW stories in this. Interesting.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Anwen Stiles said:


> I'm not so sure that's true. I reread the Select terms and what it says is that the title must be available exclusively in the Kindle store, and they did not specify in the Kindle store AND in the Select program. My thought is, put the individual titles in Select for the KU reads, and put the omnibus bundle at Amazon only, but not in the Select program. I'm going to try it.


This is correct. If you have all the books in a series in Select, you don't have to have the bundle of that series in Select, it just can't be available outside Amazon. Putting the installments in Select for KU and borrows and putting the bundle out of select but only at Amazon seems like an excellent idea to me. We have to remember that for many people, for most people, the Select books will still be borrowed at the rate of one per month. It's not now as if everyone who shops at Amazon will pay $10 a month for KU. And many of the small percentage of shoppers who do will not read more than a handful of books through it a month.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

ㅈㅈ said:


> I found Kindle Worlds stories in KU, no problem. I downloaded some by friends of mine, clicked through 11% and returned them. Did the same for the one book I have in Select. Might as well have Amazon donate money to people.
> 
> This seems eminently exploitable to me. Ha.


Moe than likely, Zon is watching for accounts that do this to a huge percentage of the books they browse and will boot them for it. So be careful.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Data if it helps... 

I'm at about 28 sales for the day (I've been closer to 40 for the past 4 days 2 hours earlier) and 3 borrows. I've slightly slid in the rankings from mid #2500s to #3000s but interestingly enough, books in my rankings have slid as well in the overall Kindle Paid Ranking but our order on the best seller lists have all remained the same. So we're ALL sliding together.... 

This is already being disruptive from what I can tell, whether that's good or bad remains to be seen. For me, about $2 royalty is all I wanted anyway, so I'm happy as a clam. I finished my manuscript for my second Pride and Prejudice novella today, and starting on edits (second round, we edit as we write as well because I write as team with another woman, I write she edits). Aiming to publish Friday, 3 weeks to the day since Horses went live. Since July 4 I've had over 700 sales on Kindle worldwide and 11 on Nook and Kobo combined. For me this was a no brainer. And before anyone says "but what about when Amazon pulls the rug out from underneath you" I've got that covered too... I write and publish on my blog and that earns adsense... I always keep a number of revenue streams going. 

I think head down, write, smartly connect everything (books, blog, mailing list, social media) and keep on going is going to rule the day on this major change.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

My first book for Select is the one I have only written 190 words for on this month' camp NaNo as I've been busy editing the Camp NaNo book from April. So I am not speaking from experience as a Select author, but as a KOLL user via Prime I know that it favours the successful and discoverability would seem to be the biggest problem. I happy to have KOLL borrows on more expensive books as I reckon them being more expensive makes someone more likely to use their borrow on that. I hope that the strategy of the successful is not to flood Select with shorts as that will make my discoverability even harder. I will go for a mixed economy I'll see how things fare with the next book in Select while keeping my current lot in the wild including at Scribd.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Some brilliant ideas here in this thread, including this one by our own ElHawk:

http://www.thepassivevoice.com/07/2014/booksellers-slam-amazons-tests-of-ebook-library/#comment-228950

Post is too long to quote here, so go, read.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Here's a link to my blog post on my proposed strategy (how I'll be using KU initially, to "test drive" it, at least.) Thanks to Jim Johnson for posting a direct link earlier, but in case anything happens to the post on TPV, it's on my blog now (with bonus link to Stains the Dog.)

http://libbiehawker.com/blog/2014/7/18/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-kindle-unlimited-for-writers


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Here's a link to my blog post on my proposed strategy (how I'll be using KU initially, to "test drive" it, at least.) Thanks to Jim Johnson for posting a direct link earlier, but in case anything happens to the post on TPV, it's on my blog now (with bonus link to Stains the Dog.)
> 
> http://libbiehawker.com/blog/2014/7/18/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-kindle-unlimited-for-writers


Libbie I love how you've put this together on your site for all of us to read and reflect on. A very bright lady you are, indeed!


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Here's a link to my blog post on my proposed strategy (how I'll be using KU initially, to "test drive" it, at least.) Thanks to Jim Johnson for posting a direct link earlier, but in case anything happens to the post on TPV, it's on my blog now (with bonus link to Stains the Dog.)
> 
> http://libbiehawker.com/blog/2014/7/18/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-kindle-unlimited-for-writers


Thanks, Libbie!


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## Σ (Jul 27, 2013)

This is probably a canned response, but if it's not, then maybe releasing shorts still won't be such a great strategy

My question:


> 07/18/14 13:06:49
> Comments:I have a question about the new Kindle Unlimited. Say I have two books, one is 10,000 words, and the other is 90,000.
> 
> If a KU member reads both, will I receive the same amount of royalty on both, or will the 90,000 book receive a higher royalty since it is longer?


Response:


> Please be assured that we're continuously working hard to improve your Kindle experience. Which is why I have forwarded this to the Kindle Development Team and they will carefully look into the adding this feature soon.
> 
> As soon as this feature becomes available, we will definitely let you know about this through our website.
> 
> ...


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

It's a canned response.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Jonathan C. Gillespie said:


> I'm very skeptical. This seems like another way to shoehorn authors into Select, which lowers readers' choices and ability to read books on the platforms they wish. I don't want 'Zon utterly dominating the ebook market, for a variety of reasons. What would happen if Amazon becomes the only fish in the water?


This


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## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

LisaGloria said:


> So, yes, there are two totally different statistics being conflated into one. Why?


I wouldn't doubt if the KOLL is on its way out, at least if KU is successful.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I was already in Select. I didn't want to give up the $800-$1,000 I was already getting in borrows each month. I want to point out, that despite what people say, I get a good 40 percent of my borrows on .99 titles. People do use their borrows on those.  Right now, I'm going to monitor the situation. I can say, just for today, I've already received 10 more borrows than I normally would this time of the month. I usually see huge borrows the first three days of the month and the last three days of the month. The rest of the month is relatively flat at 10 or so borrows each day. I'm already up to 20 today.
For my regular books, it will be a wait and see mentality. For the erotica I wrote under a penname, I'm actually fairly excited about the prospect. This would be a great thing for erotica readers and writers. Erotica sees the most returns because people read it and ... um ... get where they want to go, and a lot of them return it. Since erotica titles are shorter, it won't take long to get to the 10 percent threshhold. And, with unlimited borrows, people could go erotica crazy. I haven't written a new erotica title in more than 10 months (ever since Amazon's erotica purge in the fall). Depending on how things go, I might crank my production back up in that market. I will wait for two weeks or so to see, though.
What everyone freaking out fails to see, though, is not everyone is going to sign up for KU. I don't even think a majority of readers are going to sign up for KU. I think, while the free trial is going on, authors might see a drop in sales for this 30 days. People will gorge the first month. It's human nature. I don't think we can say how it is all going to shake out until we see our July earnings reports and the initial free trial ends. A vast majority of people who sign up for the 30-day free trial will opt out when it comes to actually paying money.
I'm in wait and see mode. Part of me thinks this will be really great. Part of me is leery. I refuse to jump off a cliff before I have a reason, though.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

I just placed my entire catalog of titles into select. I've never had any traction other than Amazon anyway with this pen name, since I write exclusively shorts with it.

I am hoping that this finally makes short stories viable. It could, you know. Like always, we have to figure out how to let people know we are there.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

yodaoneforme said:


> I get a good 40 percent of my borrows on .99 titles. People do use their borrows on those.


Why wouldn't they? The borrow is free so a 99 cent book is 99 cents more than free if you buy. The first Prime borrow I had was a 99 cent book. The real problem with KU is if Amazon bring in Big Pub. On Scribd most of my reads are HarperCollins, so indies may find their reads are lower than hoped for if there are a lot of high quality trad books to choose from. BTW I do not go out of my way to choose HarperCollins (or Simon and Schuster) I choose the book that looks most interesting and usually its Big Pub.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Mercia McMahon said:


> Why wouldn't they? The borrow is free so a 99 cent book is 99 cents more than free if you buy. The first Prime borrow I had was a 99 cent book. The real problem with KU is if Amazon bring in Big Pub. On Scribd most of my reads are HarperCollins, so indies may find their reads are lower than hoped for if there are a lot of high quality trad books to choose from. BTW I do not go out of my way to choose HarperCollins (or Simon and Schuster) I choose the book that looks most interesting and usually its Big Pub.


I never argued that people didn't. There is a certain group -- some on here -- that claim that authors are losing money on Select borrows. While, yes, in a normal month I get about 75 cents less on my $3.99 titles I also get $1.65 more on my .99 titles in a month. Some people claim people won't borrow .99 titles, and that's just not true for me.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Σ said:


> This is probably a canned response, but if it's not, then maybe releasing shorts still won't be such a great strategy


Definitely a canned response, but if I'm reading the KU terms correctly, the answer to your question is yes, both books would get the same royalty rate. The length of the book doesn't factor into the amount of money you make through KU.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Has anyone suggested writing short works, pricing them at 9.99, just for KU? Might look like a bargain for  readers to get it free...maybe run an ad with a link urging them to read the first ten percent, then answer a question showing they read the ten pages to be entered to win something? Like a book not in KU? It could even be for a more popular author in your genre whose book is expensive.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Couldn't they just get the answer using Look Inside?


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Vaalingrade said:


> Couldn't they just get the answer using Look Inside?


You could have them send you a copy of their receipt.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm just looking for solutions so it doesn't hurt me as an author.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> Has anyone suggested writing short works, pricing them at 9.99, just for KU? Might look like a bargain for readers to get it free...maybe run an ad with a link urging them to read the first ten percent, then answer a question showing they read the ten pages to be entered to win something? Like a book not in KU? It could even be for a more popular author in your genre whose book is expensive.


I guess it would be seen as a bargain since all KU stories are listed as 0.00 cost vs whatever the list price is. But since you can't have stories in KU without them also being in Select, anyone looking at the book via Select might get turned off by the price and length.

As for the giveaway, how would you give away someone else's book as part of your promo idea? Set it up ahead of time with the author?


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh Yeah! I'm am SO going to write a special serial OR short story series (with a new pen name) JUST for Kindle Unlimited 
I don't see any risk.
For the shorts/ serials,  I would charge only $.99 and still be okay.
If that pen name takes off, I'll reassess from there.
  -I would probably still write in that world, but with longer/ more expensive works, NOT in KU.

That said, I can why KU upsets SO MANY writers.
If I had books for/ over $2.99, I would run away from KU/ Select. 

If used properly, KU seems like a good opportunity to grow a fan base.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

Charmaine said:


> Oh Yeah! I'm am SO going to write a special serial OR short story series (with a new pen name) JUST for Kindle Unlimited
> I don't see any risk.


They just published episode 1 of my new serial in record time! Like 90 minutes!! 
I weighed a new pen name but... I'm still trying to build this one up.
Let us know how that goes!


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Jim Johnson said:


> I guess it would be seen as a bargain since all KU stories are listed as 0.00 cost vs whatever the list price is. But since you can't have stories in KU without them also being in Select, anyone looking at the book via Select might get turned off by the price and length.
> 
> As for the giveaway, how would you give away someone else's book as part of your promo idea? Set it up ahead of time with the author?


No, just "gift" it to them through Amazon. You could giveaway _The Fault In Our Stars_ if you write YA, or any top selling book in your genre that you think would attract people to order yours.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

LisaGloria said:


> As for your other point... I don't think we know enough about the 10% to encourage anyone at this point. 10% after the TOC? 10% anywhere? Do they remotely turn on the webcam and watch your eyeballs go back and forth? Hopefully I can write a compelling enough 5 pages at the beginning to get you to read that anyway.


They actually _do_ track how long it takes you to read a page. I think they even give you your page (%) average if you ask. They know if you flipped through, if you just read a few pages in, etc. It is scary how much they know about you.

I saw this documentary, http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-04/29/erasing-david-review where this man tried to get lost for a week. At the beginning he asked all the companies he'd ever dealt with including Amazon to send him their files on him. 
Amazon had more than any of the others. They knew who he had gifted, whether they were friends co-workers or families, their birthdays, where they lived, and the list went on and on. 
The investigators found him with a few days, even though he went off the grid.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

Anwen Stiles said:


> <snip>
> 
> I recently completed a serial (the omnibus just published yesterday). Today, I went out and unpublished all episodes and the omnibus from B&N, Apple and Google, where it was selling practically nothing anyway. Once they're all down, I'm putting all episodes into Select and leaving the omnibus just on Amazon so non-KU readers can still get a bargain with it. I'm sure that if Amazon has a problem with that, they'll let me know.  I'll report back if I hear anything.


Before KU, you could have individual stories in select, and a collection out(and vice versa)--as long as both were exclusive to the Zon.

I'm not sure what the new rules are, but my guess is it's the same.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

Casper Bogart said:


> I just placed my entire catalog of titles into select. I've never had any traction other than Amazon anyway with this pen name, since I write exclusively shorts with it.
> 
> I am hoping that this finally makes short stories viable. It could, you know. Like always, we have to figure out how to let people know we are there.


After EHs post I re-thought this. I'm posting my entire catalog of individual shorts into select. The collection I'm leaving outside. I don't really wander off Amazon with these, but if I do I can rotate stories in and out.

The issue is still discoverability. I'd love an email list service that concentrates on short works and advertises to KU subscribers. It would then almost make sense to advertise as an entire catalog, a brand, even more than the individual work. Broad spectrum, since in KU you can sample anything I've placed within. Name recognition.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

How about a picture book series with images of scantly clad ladies. I'll release a new one twice a day, read barrow all!

(Just so no one misunderstands, I'm joking).


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

One thing that people are missing here with the talk of what you could release to maximise the income is that if someone sees lots of HarperCollins or Simon & Schuster (as on Scribd) then getting noticed is as hard as getting noticed in the Amazon book store. If Amazon cannot sign up Big Pub then most people will stick with Scribd or Oyster. In fact it is harder than competing for books - you can compete with Stephen King if S&S keep his books at $9.99 but can you compete with him if he is just one more person that you can read in a month for an all you can eat $9.99?


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

I can already see what's going to happen. *Amazon is going to start paying based on length*--which make it even harder to earn decent $$$ writing kidlit!


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## Alondo (Aug 30, 2011)

Preparing the first section of my current work in progress now for inclusion in KOLL/KU. I plan to release a new section every 2 weeks or so. Why not?


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## Harmonious (Mar 4, 2011)

Box sets in KDP Select now looking like a very bad idea indeed. Have written to Amazon asking for an early release. I think I read somewhere here that we're allowed to do that, it being sprung on us as it has.... Thanks for this thread!


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## 3rotic (Mar 28, 2013)

Episodic/soap opera-esque fiction may have a lot of potential if this program catches fire. Installments could be pretty short (<10,000 words). And if they don't bar us from publishing smut through it, then KU could usher in a new age of steamy serials. Readers who take advantage of the program would have no reason to poo-poo serials on length any longer.

I don't plan to put any of my existing works in Select, however if this thing proves lucrative, I could see launching a steamy serial for KU in the not-too-distant future.

Me likey. We'll see how this thing unfolds.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

EelKat said:


> I like this idea.
> 
> I actually churn out non-fiction faster than I do fiction. It wouldn't be hard at all, for me to go back to my old 1970s habit of writing short pamphlets and manifestos (I'm very good at manifestos and I can rant about ANYTHING!  ) That was a good income for me back than and I can see it being an even better income now in the 2000s with ebooks. Lots of short .99c e-pamphlets and e-manifestos. I like that idea a lot. I could continue my fiction a week thing I'm already doing and step it up with a manifesto a day on the side. Oh wow, this could actually be so much fun! I haven't written a manifesto in ages, I loved writing those so much!


Love this! See, I have all these old vet-tech personal experience stories I first pub'd back in the 90s in magazines, but now have books with detailed updated info on the same topics. I'd thought to do a collection--maybe 10 or so articles in each (25,000 words). But hmnn, maybe do even shorter.


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## WhoAmI? (Mar 14, 2014)

I do not accept nor do I consent to KBoards/VerticalScope's Terms of Service which were implemented without proper notification.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Casper Bogart said:


> After EHs post I re-thought this. I'm posting my entire catalog of individual shorts into select. The collection I'm leaving outside. I don't really wander off Amazon with these, but if I do I can rotate stories in and out.


Even if you want to stay on Amazon and ignore the other sales sites, KU makes rotating your books in and out of Select a smarter strategy than putting them all in. Because if KU becomes popular enough and readers use it heavily, the monthly pot is going to be spread thin and you'll get paid less per title (eventually...probably not at first.) So one or two books at a time in Select will help direct readers toward your other titles, from which you'll most likely earn more per sale than those in KU.


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## DonnaK (Jul 16, 2014)

Hello Everyone.  I'm a non fiction writer and am delighted with the idea of unlimited reading.  Not only do I love to write, I love reading too.  My books have been kinda sitting there for  a while due to my not really understanding how to promote and market them.  I'm working on learning.  I write so that people will read.  Personally I will use the unlimited service as it allows me to read books that I might not have purchased due to having no real feel for them.  I also find that a lot of "free" ebooks are really best left unread.  I use my Kindle and "droid" mostly for reading fiction.  For non fiction I still like good old fashioned print books.  I've also just moved into audio books to give more options to my readers.  I don't understand the "permafree".  Would someone point me to more information on that?  Thank you bunches for letting me inquire and for your responses.


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## KDMcAdams (Feb 14, 2014)

I'm trying to understand who is going to sign up for KU. In the beginning there will be a spike that consists of people who like shiny new things, people who are trying to 'become' readers and some hard core readers who can quantify how much the spend on books each month. Over time the users will diverge from the subscribers; have you ever signed up for something and forgotten to un-enroll when you realized you didn't use it? I want to think about the users more than the subscribers. 

For those of us in the aspiring category I think KU will be positive. The people that really use it will be readers. They love stories and they talk about books and some even write reviews. If they can get a series with three or four books and several hundred thousand words at no additional charge they may be more likely to give you a shot than if it was only one free book and $10+ to see it thought to the end.


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## John Ellsworth (Jun 1, 2014)

Hmmm.

My three books are on the first page results of a search under Kindle Unlimited > Legal Thrillers.

Move them out of Select? I don't think so. I think I will leave them there and see if they can maintain that search ranking. Then decide.

My first two books are on the first page results of a search under Kindle > Legal Thrillers. But there are other Non-Select books ahead of me there. Several are the permafrees. 

So it's strange. Now, instead of competing with the permafrees on KU, I'll be competing with...what? John Grisham isn't in Select? I'm going to be watching this with much interest.

One other idea. My present WIP lends itself to a long plot/problem arcing through the book with multiple sub-plots coming and going ala Viola Rivard's excellent presentation in serializing for romance authors. Who knows, maybe that fits other genres too.  *Thinking...*


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

EelKat said:


> I've been writing magazine articles for ages. Stopped doing it last summer because of my health, and the stress involved with waiting and resubmitting. Last Fall I was playing around with the idea of releasing a bunch of e-pamphlets sort of writing the same articles I would do for magazines, only instead releasing them on my own as stand-alones on Kindle. I'm not sure if people would buy something like that or not. My idea was to after writing a bunch on a theme, then bundle them into a collection. Say each article sells for .99c and the collection of 10 or 20 (depending on word count) sell for $4.99.


That sounds like a great idea. Actually, for me I think the articles may be a second phase. Right now, instead I think I'll excerpt the most popular topics from the various prescriptive books at a deep discount (litter box fixes, dog separation anxiety solutions, home nursing care for old dogs/cats) to perhaps intro folks to the full length titles. Lots of ways to experiment.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

Actually, a format that might be super hot would be anthologies in Kindle Unlimited. 

Think about it, you could keep your novels etc. out of Kindle Unlimited, write a short story or novella with a bunch of other authors for Kindle Unlimited and use the funds it makes to promote the anthology.... with links at the end of each piece, it would be a great way for readers to discover new titles, and a great weekly or monthly vehicle for small presses to help push their catalog to readers. 

I wonder too if this would work... take a small press with 10 authors' new releases. Take the first chapter of each and bundle them and put it in KU. The books themselves shouldn't be required to be exclusive since it'a flip on total percentage of the work... or even if it is...

Take the first chapters of the new releases, make it KU, links to the books on amazon, after 90 days, take the bundle out, and put the books available everywhere else.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

Is there a minimum word-count for KU?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Deke said:


> Is there a minimum word-count for KU?


No, though I seem to recall at some point Amazon encouraging people not to write and sell flash fic.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

there is not but in the Terms of Kindle Select it says that Amazon can exclude any content it feels doesn't meet their standards at any time. I take that to mean, if enough readers complain about you, you could get removed.

But since it's unlimited for $9.99, I don't see readers throwing a fit about shorter fiction other than to just go BAH and go get another one if it bothers them, and those that like it will be pleased. We've all asked for a way to be cheaper than 99 cents on short stories and now we are (from the reader's perspective). A reader reads 20 short stories in a month, they only paid 50 cents a piece.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> Even if you want to stay on Amazon and ignore the other sales sites, KU makes rotating your books in and out of Select a smarter strategy than putting them all in. Because if KU becomes popular enough and readers use it heavily, the monthly pot is going to be spread thin and you'll get paid less per title (eventually...probably not at first.) So one or two books at a time in Select will help direct readers toward your other titles, from which you'll most likely earn more per sale than those in KU.


Except...

That most of my shorts sell at $.99. In theory, on individual stories, I could double my royalty being in KU. As a short story writer, this can be a game changer, provided people can find your stories. It's still about discoverability.

I want the Fiver deal that markets to 30,000 readers who like short stories and are also KU subscribers. Wouldn't that be nice?

If you regularly charge $2.99 +, then the strategy is much better as you describe it, Libbie. I've rarely been able to sell a short at $2.99. Collections, yes. But non-erotica stories? A hard sell.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Do be careful of the rotating in/out strategy. I just heard from a colleague that some authors have been warned by B&N their books will be removed if they do this too much.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Just as an FYI, the Internet marketing crowd is already selling info products about selling super short books on KU. It's a bit sad because that was a lot of people's worst nightmare. Hopefully, Amazon will implement some kind of tiered payment structure to keep novel authors happy and keep KU from being flooded with outsourced crap. Even though I like to writer shorter, 25k word novella serials, I hate the idea of the market being full of ESL, money-grabbing garbage.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Casper Bogart said:


> Except...
> 
> That most of my shorts sell at $.99. In theory, on individual stories, I could double my royalty being in KU. As a short story writer, this can be a game changer, provided people can find your stories. It's still about discoverability.
> 
> ...


Yes -- you're correct about shorts! You'll most likely earn more per sale from those in KU. But longer or higher-priced titles seem likely to earn you more via non-KU sales, so keeping at least half your list out of Select at any given time seems like a smarter move than all-in, if you're dealing with higher-priced titles.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Amyshojai said:


> Do be careful of the rotating in/out strategy. I just heard from a colleague that some authors have been warned by B&N their books will be removed if they do this too much.


That's good to know. You could also dedicate a couple of stand-alone titles to Select without rotating them in and out -- or rotate them on a much broader schedule, such as yearly (if this becomes a long-term part of the landscape...you know how fast things change!)

What seems the best strategy of all to me is to write some shorter content (novellas or a short serial) that ties to your other stuff. Prequel-type things, or companion/parallel novellas. Stuff you don't NEED to read in order to "get" your work that's available on all platforms, but which you can safely leave in Select without cannibalizing sales of the rest of your work.

Plus it'd be fun to have one or two titles that are "Subscriber Exclusive!" You could come out with a new Exclusive short work every year or six months or whatever, and when you take the old Exclusive out of Select, you can also offer it as a freebie to mailing list subscribers...something like that. Of course, that's thinking long-term, and assuming the subscription model takes a major hold and becomes a huge game-changer. 

I love all this brain-storming! It's giving me some great ideas and really getting me fired up to try some new things!


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> For those of us promoting our books in KU, we can now say "Read it FREE as part of your Kindle Unlimited membership."


^^^ I like that as a promotion slug.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> I love all this brain-storming! It's giving me some great ideas and really getting me fired up to try some new things!


You could write up a variety of novellas or short stories or the like, and go exclusive with each of them to different outlets. Sort of like how some games come with different extra content if you buy it from Best Buy, or Target, or Amazon, or GameStop, etc. Do a B&N exclusive, a KDP Select exclusive, a Kobo exclusive, etc. All funnels to your main series available everywhere, but perks for the customers who might be loyal to one outlet or another.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> That's good to know. You could also dedicate a couple of stand-alone titles to Select without rotating them in and out -- or rotate them on a much broader schedule, such as yearly (if this becomes a long-term part of the landscape...you know how fast things change!)
> 
> What seems the best strategy of all to me is to write some shorter content (novellas or a short serial) that ties to your other stuff. Prequel-type things, or companion/parallel novellas. Stuff you don't NEED to read in order to "get" your work that's available on all platforms, but which you can safely leave in Select without cannibalizing sales of the rest of your work.
> 
> ...


Yes! I'm doing that for my nonfiction right now..."HELP! My Cat/Dog Hates My Date..." with tips for intros to new loves, babies, kids etc that leads on to the behavior books and prescriptive medical home care stuff. And once the 3rd book in my suspense series comes out, I have a prequel planned to make perma-free. Love the brainstorming!


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> What seems the best strategy of all to me is to write some shorter content (novellas or a short serial) that ties to your other stuff. Prequel-type things, or companion/parallel novellas. Stuff you don't NEED to read in order to "get" your work that's available on all platforms, but which you can safely leave in Select without cannibalizing sales of the rest of your work.


Makes perfect sense. I already have one of my authors editing a previously unpublished novel to use as a funnel/companion book.



> I love all this brain-storming! It's giving me some great ideas and really getting me fired up to try some new things!


And all this brain-storming giving me some great headaches!  But it_ is _exciting and a large scotch usually sorts out the head department.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Jim Johnson said:


> You could write up a variety of novellas or short stories or the like, and go exclusive with each of them to different outlets. Sort of like how some games come with different extra content if you buy it from Best Buy, or Target, or Amazon, or GameStop, etc. Do a B&N exclusive, a KDP Select exclusive, a Kobo exclusive, etc. All funnels to your main series available everywhere, but perks for the customers who might be loyal to one outlet or another.


You can't. No more than 10% can be the same somewhere else if you're going Amazon select.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

VMた said:


> You can't. No more than 10% can be the same somewhere else if you're going Amazon select.


Right. My post probably wasn't clear. You write a different novella for each outlet and go exclusive with it at each outlet. Different product for different outlets, all related to the same series.


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## trublue (Jul 7, 2012)

Jonathan C. Gillespie said:


> I'm very skeptical. This seems like another way to shoehorn authors into Select, which lowers readers' choices and ability to read books on the platforms they wish. I don't want 'Zon utterly dominating the ebook market, for a variety of reasons. If they were smart, they would have marketed this to authors as an opt-in service, like borrowing. Instead, Amazon is being ruthless. Their continued obsession with exclusivity says volumes about them compared to their competitors.
> 
> What would happen if Amazon becomes the only fish in the water? And do you really want your fiction's success so influenced by a single company that uses tactics like this? I thought breaking the single point of acceptance was why so many of us got into this method of publishing.
> 
> No offense meant to anyone, of course.


This^^^^

Don't get me wrong, I love Amazon. It has changed my life. However I have too many readers other places to join Select. I don't care what they are offering. Like the above quote says Amazon could have had an opt in kind of thing but no. They insist on world domination. That and not allowing us to put our books free when we want, are the two things I truly dislike about them. I'm not doing anything where I have to join Select. Period.


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## MJWare (Jun 25, 2010)

Kalypsō said:


> Just as an FYI, the Internet marketing crowd is already selling info products about selling super short books on KU. It's a bit sad because that was a lot of people's worst nightmare. *Hopefully, Amazon will implement some kind of tiered payment structure *to keep novel authors happy and keep KU from being flooded with outsourced crap. Even though I like to writer shorter, 25k word novella serials, I hate the idea of the market being full of ESL, money-grabbing garbage.


I'm afraid this might happen, but I hope it does not. Simply because it's not fair to all authors. I know kidlit authors who spend as much time writing a picture book, as it takes to finish a typical adult novel. It's the same thing for Poetry as well as research intensive nonfiction.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

MJAWare said:


> I'm afraid this might happen, but I hope it does not. Simply because it's not fair to all authors. I know kidlit authors who spend as much time writing a picture book, as it takes to finish a typical adult novel. It's the same thing for Poetry as well as research intensive nonfiction.


I hear that too, and I agree. I tend to spend far more on children's books than I do on the books I read myself. I just hate to see novelists short changed and the market flooded with chapters of outsourced books more than it already is.


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## Mahalo (Feb 7, 2014)

So, no anthologies and if we want to put all parts of our series in KU then we can only have the bundled version on Amazon (out of KU) but not elsewhere, correct?

Hmm. That puts a bit of a damper on some of the excitement. 

Question for those of you with Amazon Prime/Netflix and the such...in some instances (like HBO shows on Amazon) they will only release the first season or the first six episodes for free. After that, you have to pay by episode if you want to watch the current season. How many of you have purchased an episode after watching several of them for free? Or do you continue on to the other free shows?

I just ask because I wonder if it is smart to enroll the first in a series in KU and then keep the rest out as a paid option or not.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Ana Munroe said:


> So, no anthologies and if we want to put all parts of our series in KU then we can only have the bundled version on Amazon (out of KU) but not elsewhere, correct?
> 
> Hmm. That puts a bit of a damper on some of the excitement.
> 
> ...


I'm in Prime, but I never watch videos with it. I'm sure that's a waste, but I've just never did it. I use it for the shipping and borrows. I buy so much from Amazon that my Prime membership pays for the shipping a good five times over throughout the year.


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## Mahalo (Feb 7, 2014)

yodaoneforme said:


> I'm in Prime, but I never watch videos with it. I'm sure that's a waste, but I've just never did it. I use it for the shipping and borrows. I buy so much from Amazon that my Prime membership pays for the shipping a good five times over throughout the year.


We have a roku and I watch a lot of Amazon shows. And, I do find myself buying shows vs. in Hulu and Netflix where there is no option to purchase a current season.


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## Mahalo (Feb 7, 2014)

Although, I suppose the downside to the strategy of putting just the first part in KU would be that you would be limiting your initial readership to those enrolled in KU only. While it could tempt them to go on and purchase the next books outside of KU though...will they be the type of customer that will do so? Or are they going to be the bargain hunting only type clientele? Hmmm.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Ana Munroe said:


> Although, I suppose the downside to the strategy of putting just the first part in KU would be that you would be limiting your initial readership to those enrolled in KU only. While it could tempt them to go on and purchase the next books outside of KU though...will they be the type of customer that will do so? Or are they going to be the bargain hunting only type clientele? Hmmm.


I can only speak for myself as a voracious reader. I have found many books on the free list and through borrows on Prime and went on to pay for the rest of the series. Is that the norm? I have no idea. I love to read. When I find something I like, I read it all. That's how I've found some terrific authors -- some who are part of this community. Prime borrows have allowed me to take a chance on books I was only so-so about. Sometimes I'm glad I've read them and go on. Sometimes, they're just not my thing.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

I have done it, bought an episode of something because the xfinity option had expired. And I was PISSED about it. But I am super frugal. It must be a viable strategy because xfinity regularly rotates things out, then brings them back in as collections, usually before the new season of something.


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## Mahalo (Feb 7, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Here's a link to my blog post on my proposed strategy (how I'll be using KU initially, to "test drive" it, at least.) Thanks to Jim Johnson for posting a direct link earlier, but in case anything happens to the post on TPV, it's on my blog now (with bonus link to Stains the Dog.)
> 
> http://libbiehawker.com/blog/2014/7/18/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-kindle-unlimited-for-writers


Sorry Libbie, I just got around to reading this. Great post and I see that you covered the first in the series option. Plus, Stains the Dog is awesome


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

DonnaK said:


> Hello Everyone. I'm a non fiction writer and am delighted with the idea of unlimited reading.  Not only do I love to write, I love reading too.


I've been on Scribd for about 6 months and non-fiction reading has been my main use. It is like having your own individual research library, you can dip in and read the relevant chapter in a book then move onto the next book. Although until Amazon prove that they can can get Big Pub into KU writers of serious non-fiction would be better sticking to Scribd where you get to hang out with HarperCollins and assorted university presses.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

Strategy:  Divide up a book and list each chapter as a separate "part."  So you've have like 30 or 40 parts?  Make them perm free or really cheap?  Or most free and the last few cheap?


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

Deke said:


> Strategy: Divide up a book and list each chapter as a separate "part." So you've have like 30 or 40 parts? Make them perm free or really cheap? Or most free and the last few cheap?


You know people are still going to read and review your work right? So... I mean, if that's your only idea, go for it. Whatever.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Deke said:


> Strategy: Divide up a book and list each chapter as a separate "part." So you've have like 30 or 40 parts? Make them perm free or really cheap? Or most free and the last few cheap?


Uhhhh....
I'm a fan of serials and plan on doing one, but what you're describing isn't one.
Just remember people who AREN't signed into KU can still view your chapters.
If they were to buy it, they would be angry! Really, really angry!
Proceed with caution


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

I'm just spit balling.  It seems the Amazon is determined to give our work away for free to subscribers. So if the chapters or parts are free…the only inconvenience would be the need to down load them one at a time. Isn't that was serialized fiction is all about?


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Deke said:


> I'm just spit balling. It seems the Amazon is determined to give our work away for free to subscribers. So if the chapters or parts are free...the only inconvenience would be the need to down load them one at a time. Isn't that was serialized fiction is all about?


Go for it. Hope it works


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I had books 2-4 in my series in Select and I took advantage of AMZ willingness to let folks out of Select b/c of KU and took them out. That way I can pop all three on BN & Kobo to (hopefully) reap the benefits of a BB ad I have coming up on the 27th. The 1st book is permafree and already in those venues. Depending on the BB tail, I'll decide whether to put all or some back in or drop the permafree, price the 1st at 99c and just put that in Select as a funnel.


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## Mike_Author (Oct 19, 2013)

Deke said:


> Strategy: Divide up a book and list each chapter as a separate "part." So you've have like 30 or 40 parts? Make them perm free or really cheap? Or most free and the last few cheap?


That's too conservative - I plan on splitting my books into 500-1000 paragraphs. $2 per borrow I am going to be literally taking a bath in cash. Have already put a downpayment on an ivory back scratcher in anticipation of future profits.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I've pulled two books from other retailers to put in Select. I'm impressed at how quickly all except Nook have removed the books. 

The ones at Google Play have me confused. The sales page is still up, but the purchase options are gone. It just has an "add to wishlist" button. Do I need to completely remove those books from Google? Amazon could look at those pages and claim that it's "available" over there.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Deke said:


> I'm just spit balling. It seems the Amazon is determined to give our work away for free to subscribers. So if the chapters or parts are free...the only inconvenience would be the need to down load them one at a time. Isn't that was serialized fiction is all about?


As someone who is a fan of what was, until the advent of the one-hour serial drama on television, the last bastion of serial storytelling in a generation; as someone who has devoted seven years and four million words to the creation of a true prose serial, the longest-running of its kind still active on the web, as a consumer of prose serial fiction--

*NO*

Let me put it this way: if you do not have multiple story arcs in succession, you are not producing a serial. You may be publishing a product serially but _that is not the same thing_. 'Serials' are a specific form or fiction, not just stories hacks to pieces and served up hibachi-style.


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## David Wisehart (Mar 2, 2010)

Vaalingrade said:


> Let me put it this way: if you do not have multiple story arcs in succession, you are not producing a serial. You may be publishing a product serially but _that is not the same thing_. 'Serials' are a specific form or fiction, not just stories hacks to pieces and served up hibachi-style.


One way to write a serial is with multiple self-contained arcs that each resolve. Another way is to write long arcs, ending episodes with cliffhangers. Television has numerous examples of both formats.

Many of the most popular 19th century serials-which we read as novels today-ended their episodes with cliffhangers.

From The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2012/07/30/120730crte_television_nussbaum):



> The great nineteenth-century novels were famous for their cliffhangers, and many people associate the form with Charles Dickens, who wrote serial novels so complex, yet so rewarding, that one might even say they resemble "The Wire." Printed episodically in magazines, Dickens's cliffhangers triggered desperation in his readers. In 1841, Dickens fanboys rioted on the dock of New York Harbor, as they waited for a British ship carrying the next installment, screaming, "Is little Nell dead?" (Spoiler: she was.)


I've decided to serialize my work-in-progress, _The Vatican Dagger_, on the Dickens model.

I published Episode 1 today. It's 14K words, priced at 99 cents. Free with Kindle Unlimited.










In the past I've resisted serializing because of negative reviews for shorter works and cliffhanger endings. Dickens' cliffhangers may have caused riots back in the day, but now they would likely cause a few one-star reviews.

Hopefully, the free option will mitigate that.

We'll see.

David


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Drew Smith said:


> A couple of ours did the same thing when I pulled them from Google on Thursday. Then the next day the pages were finally gone. Hopefully tomorrow yours will be gone and you'll be in the clear.


Thanks for letting me know!  I hope mine is as quick. Now I'm only waiting on Google and then I can add my books to KU.


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## UltraRob (Dec 5, 2011)

LisaGloria said:


> You know people are still going to read and review your work right? So... I mean, if that's your only idea, go for it. Whatever.


You're forgetting what was brought up at the beginning of this thread. You don't need real readers to profit from this, you just need to pay someone on Fiver to pretend-read through all your chapters and they count as real sales. In fact, anyone who doesn't do this will end up screwed out of their piece of the pie.

Rob


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Every time you do that, you make the pie pieces smaller for yourself. And they're going to the tiny to start with.


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

I'm guessing you can't make money by paying someone to read your content…even fake read it.  Five bucks on Fiverr will get you what? 50 cents?  Now if you could come up with a computer program that did this a million times….


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## Evan J (Feb 3, 2014)

Deke said:


> I'm guessing you can't make money by paying someone to read your content...even fake read it. Five bucks on Fiverr will get you what? 50 cents? Now if you could come up with a computer program that did this a million times....


You assume you only have one title out. What if you can push out 100 short pieces in a 2 weeks. Five bucks gets a click on all 100. Is the royalty still 50 cents?


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

This kind of thing will ruin it for everyone.


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## UltraRob (Dec 5, 2011)

As long as the "pie" is more than a penny a share, it's profitable to game it. I can publish 500 single-page "mini-books" a day (3500 a week) and pay someone to "read" them (ie click through them, or have a bot do it.) They get $5 for easy work, and I get $35 at a penny a "book". Total profit. Oh, and I have dozens of people doing this for $5 each, every week. All making sure that my slice of that pie is as big as possible, even if it's tiny.

Now, you're right that eventually the price becomes so low it's not even worth a Fiver, but at that point it's also not worth any of us doing it either, it's effectively a free book and a waste of our time. Amazon's Kindle Unlimited will have no content and collapses. (Oh, and the Kindle Lending Library, which runs out of the same pool of money, is also becoming progressively less profitable with every Kindle Unlimited share, so it collapses too.) Pretty soon there will be no reason to join Select at all!

Rob


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm kind of excited about Kindle Unlimited, but the Lacuna series makes way, way too much money on other retailers to go Amazon exclusive (Google Play sells more than Amazon for me, on most months). So I decided to pull my four worst sellers out and see how they would go with Select. All of them except one were in the 99c bracket, which I bumped up to $2.99 because I might as well get the 70% benefit on all regions, and we'll see how borrows go.

Most of these books sell 1-5 copies per month or fewer, and usually none in expanded distribution, so it's really just an experiment. If it pays off -- and I guess the bar for success is really low at this point -- I'll consider putting some other ones in as well, including _Rakshasa_. It's just weird because the part #1 for each book is permafree but still doing poorly, so... I have no idea. Maybe KU is good for it?

Is anyone else pulling stuff out of expanded distribution, especially out of perma-free, for KU?

We live in interesting times.


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

Yepper. Pulling one pen name entirely and putting it on KU. It's a risk, but that pen name is one that only puts out a book or two a year until very recently, so I don't have much traction with it yet. I'm risking about $2,000 over the course of the 90 day commitment (based on my average sales for those books). I can't pull the books from my main pen name from other vendors. I just don't have the nuts to do it without testing the waters first.


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## Σ (Jul 27, 2013)

That kind of gaming is trivial to catch because you have an account which constantly buys all or a large percentage of a given author's works. And once you have a few examples of it, you can use a bayes classifier to block all further instances.

And since amazon delays payment, once they catch someone doing it, if it's a violation of terms, that author likely wouldn't get paid

There's also the issue of having a US credit card. From my experience, a lot of people on fiverr aren't US-based


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

Deke said:


> Strategy: Divide up a book and list each chapter as a separate "part." So you've have like 30 or 40 parts? Make them perm free or really cheap? Or most free and the last few cheap?


Only a good strategy if you see a long term benefit in annoying the hell out of all your readers and potential readers. One thing people need to remember is putting a book in select isn't just putting your book in KU, it's also putting your book in the Amazon store. So now when someone who is not subscribed to KU (ie... the *vast majority* of your potential audience) searches your name they'll see 31 results, 30 of which will be a rip-off and one of which will be your full novel that they'll probably never find because they've given up scrolling through dozens of near identical covers!

FWIW I think this is the biggest mistake people are making when they analyse whether or not KU is a good idea or how they should use it. Yes, KU is a potential revenue stream, but you are exlusive to _amazon_ not exclusive to KU and the former of these is always going to be your biggest source of potential income, especially once all the publicity dies down and all the free trials are over.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

Writing serials is a legitimate way to publish work, and has been popular for a very long time. As many have said, Dickens' work was originally published in such a format. However, if people try to game the KU system by arbitrarily chopping their work up into segments to attempt to make more money, they'll only succeed in pissing off their audience. Probably Amazon too.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Stacy Claflin said:


> I've pulled two books from other retailers to put in Select. I'm impressed at how quickly all except Nook have removed the books.
> 
> The ones at Google Play have me confused. The sales page is still up, but the purchase options are gone. It just has an "add to wishlist" button. Do I need to completely remove those books from Google? Amazon could look at those pages and claim that it's "available" over there.


Nook is dragging its butt as usual, and Google has the wishlist option on mine too. I am super paranoid, so I emailed them. Still waiting.


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## books_mb (Oct 29, 2013)

Both as a reader and author I hope that artificially dividing books will not become widespread. If it happens, not joining in will be difficult for any author. Assuming that Amazon increases the pool more or less proportionally to the overall number of pages borrowed per month, an author's payout will mainly come down to the ratio average pages per book (overall) to average pages per book (author). If you don't lower your average to match what other authors are doing, your income will decrease. So it's give up your principles or lose income. Of course writers of short stories won't have to make this decision (and cannot be blamed for the system favoring them).

I think it was Mark E. Cooper who suggested a minimum word count for Kindle books. That sounds like a great idea to prevent this. Of course it would be even better if Amazon finds a way to reward full length novels, for example by setting up several pools for books of different sizes instead of just one pool for all. But I doubt that will happen.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

So I had almost determined to take one of my titles (a poor performer overall) and plunk it into KU, to see if it could gain any traction under this program, when I now read that the program might not be as good a deal as originally thought (for both authors and readers).  So now I'm unsure if that's the best strategy.  (Oh, who am I kidding... only one book, I probably will do it.  But now I'm just less optimistic about it.   )


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

Kalypsō said:


> This kind of thing will ruin it for everyone.


this


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## Deke (May 18, 2013)

"So I had almost determined to take one of my titles (a poor performer overall) and plunk it into KU"

Just to be clear, if it is in Select…it's in KU.  There's no opt in or opt out (unless you opt out of Select). 

I get all my books form the library, so as a reader KU seems like a great thing.  Of course, as I read from my local library, I am accustomed to not paying anything for what I read.  

Somone above mentioned multiple versions of their book.  Can you elaborate?  What's a color version?  Or are these kids illustrated books?


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Deke said:


> "So I had almost determined to take one of my titles (a poor performer overall) and plunk it into KU"
> 
> Just to be clear, if it is in Select...it's in KU. There's no opt in or opt out (unless you opt out of Select).


Currently none of my books are in Select (tried it once long ago, didn't like the results). So I may enter it into Select/KU. After all, it's only three months, right??


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## Evan J (Feb 3, 2014)

books_mb said:


> Of course it would be even better if Amazon finds a way to reward full length novels, for example by setting up several pools for books of different sizes instead of just one pool for all.


Why? Amazon's goal is to make money from this. Whoever is driving people to subscribe should be "rewarded" for driving people to subscribe. That might very well be authors of short erotica, for example. If authors of "full length novels" don't drive the subscriptions, I fail to see why they should be rewarded simply because they write long.


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

First few days have been excellent. I'm going to step away from this board for a few weeks and write like the wind. Good luck to alla yas.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Nook is dragging its butt as usual, and Google has the wishlist option on mine too. I am super paranoid, so I emailed them. Still waiting.


My books are still up with the wishlist option even though I completely removed them last night. I contacted Google this morning, but haven't heard back yet. I wonder if they're getting a lot of requests.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Stacy Claflin said:


> My books are still up with the wishlist option even though I completely removed them last night. I contacted Google this morning, but haven't heard back yet. I wonder if they're getting a lot of requests.


Just got the email from Google. They say the book is gone, not purchasable, not scanable (for sampling), not downloadable in any way, BUT they keep meta data of all digital titles. They say that data is never deleted and have a nice day.

So... I guess that's it. If KDP have a problem then so do I because Google don't ever delete meta data. Barnes is STILL dragging its butt as usual. No action from them.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Just got the email from Google. They say the book is gone, not purchasable, not scanable (for sampling), not downloadable in any way, BUT they keep meta data of all digital titles. They say that data is never deleted and have a nice day.
> 
> So... I guess that's it. If KDP have a problem then so do I because Google don't ever delete meta data. Barnes is STILL dragging its butt as usual. No action from them.


So they're not going to take down the wishlist pages?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> Just got the email from Google. They say the book is gone, not purchasable, not scanable (for sampling), not downloadable in any way, BUT they keep meta data of all digital titles. They say that data is never deleted and have a nice day.
> 
> So... I guess that's it. If KDP have a problem then so do I because Google don't ever delete meta data. Barnes is STILL dragging its butt as usual. No action from them.


Thanks for the data points. Sounds like another good reason for a new self-publisher to avoid Google Play.


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## Jena H (Oct 2, 2011)

Apologies if this has been asked but I'm not even fully active on Google Play and now I'm having to remove one of my titles for my Grand KU Experiment.  Anyway, the pop-up box for my book on GP has two options:  1) Remove from Google Play, and 2) Deactivate Completely.  ..  What's the difference, and which one should I go with??


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Just pub'd in KU...guides, actually, not full length books. Like many fiction authors on this list, my titles are available across many platforms so I have no inclination to pull them just to test the program.

But I do believe this offers an opportunity for both fiction authors AND for nonfiction. The majority of my titles are nonfiction, and there's cross-over in that audience to my pet-centric suspense/thrillers. So I wrote two short how-to "guides" that offer very specific, prescriptive help...but go on to refer readers to full length books AND invite them to join my newsletter list   and/or suggest dog/cat names to be included in my next fiction title.  

The "letter to readers" is live on the preview page at amazon with hot-links to the blog, etc, so even if the guide isn't purchased, readers still see that information. Also, I've priced the guides pretty high for the short length, but wanted it to contrast sharply with the "free" option of the KU program. My nonfiction Ebooks sell well at a higher price point anyway, with "expert" info. 

This is purely an experiment and may fall flat, but costs me nothing to try, and I can always delete the books, make them virtually free, and play with content.

I'm just throwing it out there for others to see if something similar might work for them.  Oh, I've also experimented with categories, listing them (of course!) in the pet realm, but also in pet/parenting/romance/relationship arena. The titles of the books:

MY DOG HATES MY DATE! Teach Dogs to Accept Babies, Toddlers & Lovers
MY CAT HATES MY DATE! Teach Dogs to Accept Babies, Toddlers & Lovers

I'll let y'all know how this works (or doesn't! LOL!). The dog one is already selling...but no borrows yet.

woofs & purrs,
amy


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Jena H said:


> Apologies if this has been asked but I'm not even fully active on Google Play and now I'm having to remove one of my titles for my Grand KU Experiment. Anyway, the pop-up box for my book on GP has two options: 1) Remove from Google Play, and 2) Deactivate Completely. .. What's the difference, and which one should I go with??


Remove will remove from sale, deactivate completely deletes the book entirely from your dashboard as well. I deactivated my single soon to be Select title for safety. It is now not searchable or purchasable, its not listed under my author name and shouldn't be discoverable in an way. I have my old link from my website. If I use it, the blurb and cover come up with an add to wishlist but there is no sa!ple or way to purchase.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Stacy Claflin said:


> So they're not going to take down the wishlist pages?


Seems like, but there is no way to reach that page without the original link. Its not searchable. I checked. Its not listed under books by mark e cooper either so I guess I'm okay.


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## Marie Long (Jan 11, 2014)

EelKat said:


> I just realized most of my long time readers (my 7,000 die hard fans that I can rely on to buy everything I put out) are not going to be interested in KU. A lot of them consider my work "must buy" for there collections, because they are collectors and I release multiple editions of my books. I release anniversary editions, full color editions, etc. They buy them in print more often than ebook as well.
> 
> I can see one problem with KU as a reader. I'm hearing rumors that if you cancel, you lose access to everything you downloaded via KU. So the $9.99 is not money to buy books you want to keep it's just a rental fee with no intention of keeping the book after reading. (and we authors only get paid IF they read it?) That sucks major big time for those of us with a Guinness World Record to maintain. Add more books to my collection only to lose them all the first time I forget to renew my monthly subscription? I don't think so. besides, ebooks don't count towards my record, Guinness only counts my print books, and print books aren't part of KU.
> 
> ...


I didn't realize you lose all your books if you cancel KU. Well, I'm one of those 'collector' readers, and if I pay for a book, then it's mine, and I should keep it, so KU is useless for someone like me.

I can imagine the same thing must work for Oyster and Scribd, right?


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Marie Long said:


> I didn't realize you lose all your books if you cancel KU. Well, I'm one of those 'collector' readers, and if I pay for a book, then it's mine, and I should keep it, so KU is useless for someone like me.
> 
> I can imagine the same thing must work for Oyster and Scribd, right?


Not to worry, you only lose 10 titles because that is the max you can have "out" at one time anyway


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Scribd does have a minimum word count. When I put my short story on Scribd via Smashwords it was charged at $0.99 and Scribd made it purchase only as it was too short for the subscription service. I asked Smashwords to reduce the price to free but Scribd never did. I have switched Scribd uploads to D2D and the first thing to go up as a test was that short story which had been removed long since due to the failure to make it free. The D2D upload was live within 24 hours with a free price tag in the subscription service, because on Scribd's payment models they do not pay you if your freebie is read.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

Among my almost non-existent sales I have had 99% of sales from Amazon, so I am moving my debut novel into Select, where I originally planned to place it. Hopefully by the time the little retailers finally remove it KU will be on a transatlantic flight to open in the UK as pulling out of Scribd is difficult to contemplate as a non-American while KU is US-only. My next novel was always planned as a Select experiment, so I'll have both my novels in it by them, but keep my non-fiction on Scribd (where I get a few borrows).


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## Syc (Jan 17, 2014)

Anyone consider doing a TV-series like format for releases? 

e.g. format your stories so they're in short 5k word chunks, taking about 30 minutes to read, and then release them every 2 days. Story-line similar to a TV-series also, based around one area and with the same characters. The 'freeness' of it and quick release schedule could get addictive.


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## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

Since KU started, borrows for one of my non-fiction books really went up, resulting in a ranking of #20 or higher in its category. I make 1/3 of what I would at regular price, but to me it's found money. Kindle suggested I lower the price by two bucks but, personally, I feel higher prices translate into 'perceived value'.

Just recently I transferred in another non-fiction title, and 9 fiction titles. I also raised the prices on all to see if that raised the 'perceived value' to borrowers.

Nothing really quantifiable on that move yet, but after 3 months I should have a good handle on this experiment.

What a grand and nimble world we live in as Indie authors.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

I've only sold one copy of my KU book in three days, but the rank is at 125,000ish. Meanwhile the borrows are still showing zero... seems odd


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## KTaylor (Aug 4, 2014)

Syc said:


> Anyone consider doing a TV-series like format for releases?
> 
> e.g. format your stories so they're in short 5k word chunks, taking about 30 minutes to read, and then release them every 2 days. Story-line similar to a TV-series also, based around one area and with the same characters. The 'freeness' of it and quick release schedule could get addictive.


This is basically what I'm working on with another writer, though we're talking about every 1-2 weeks with about 10-12K word count. We're not in a "niche" market like the gal with the billionaire vampires (very clever of her!!), so am curious how it will work.

...Of course we have to finish outlining the darned thing first and get episodes 1 & 2 couple ready to publish before we can even kick things off.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Syc said:


> Anyone consider doing a TV-series like format for releases?
> 
> e.g. format your stories so they're in short 5k word chunks, taking about 30 minutes to read, and then release them every 2 days. Story-line similar to a TV-series also, based around one area and with the same characters. The 'freeness' of it and quick release schedule could get addictive.


I'm doing a tv-like series, but I'm going with 30k novellas. I think that's a meaty enough size for a regular release. I'm shooting for monthly.

I have a couple other series ideas that I might experiment with at shorter lengths.


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