# Feeling Depressed With Low Sales



## Stefan Homberger (Jul 7, 2015)

I've been extremely depressed lately, and I thought I'd come here to get some advice or cheering up. I published my first book on Amazon in February and sales have been non-existent. The sequel is going up in August along with a new stand-alone novel and the start of an episodic series. I've been promoting everywhere I can think of- even going so far as to create a trailer for the book and posting on my Youtube channel (starting to build a small following there) 



 and twitter, and Facebook, and any forums I am actiavely engaged in. Still nothing. 
I wasn't expecting to have a bestseller on my hands, but... something. In five months I've sold 10 copies and 80 free copies from promotions. I'm worried about how the second book and my other work will do if things don't pick up. Part of the problem is that my family is not only supportive, but acively against writing fantasy or science-fiction. My only relative who has purchased a copy in 5 months is my wife. Any advice from someone who has been around the Kindle scene longer would be appreciated. 
Here is a link to my book, should anyone have any interest. http://www.amazon.com/The-Witchs-Blade-Legacy-Dead-ebook/dp/B00T3SDKCK


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

No advice but here are some hugs.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

I'm so sorry 

I know you're looking for advice from those who have far more experience than I do, but I just wanted to express how much more difficult this must be for you given that you don't have your friends' and family's support. 

While my sales haven't been overwhelming either, I expected a slow start because I am new to this and haven't been doing much promoting. I only published my book a month ago. I'm concentrating on getting the rest of my series written right now, and I've gotten some really encouraging feedback from readers, and that keeps me motivated. Having my family's support is the most important part of this journey for me though. Without it, I doubt I would still be dedicating this much time to writing still.

Kudos to you for keeping at it despite the lack of personal support.


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## HMeloche (Jul 6, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear that! Hugs, and I'm afraid I haven't been around Kindle nearly long enough to have any advice... but as a voracious reader I can say the cover doesn't match the blurb for me. It wouldn't, for instance, make me stop and click on it if it popped up in my fantasy browsing "other readers also bought" list. I'd suggest something with more focus than just parchment paper texture and the title - even if you make up a mark or symbol of some sort for the dead god and that's on there, that would be more eye catching.


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## Stefan Homberger (Jul 7, 2015)

Not having a good support structure and some guaranteed beginning sales has made it much harder. I've even dropped the price of my book to $.99 for now in the hopes that it picks up some sales before I publish the second in the series.


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## Doril (Nov 2, 2013)

I'm so sorry about the lack of sales. Have you considered changing the cover? A new cover can sometimes do wonders.
Just a thought. I hope some fantasy/science fiction readers will drop by to offer suggestions.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Sorry you're not getting many sales. 

I don't read dark fantasy or epic fantasy but if i was browsing amazon i would not click on your cover. It tells me nothing about the story. I would spend a little money on a new cover.


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## Stefan Homberger (Jul 7, 2015)

I was actually thinking about changing the cover. I think I'll try that and redo my ad. Other than the cover, does this ad seem interesting enough? 



 Thank you to everyone who has replied thus far.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Sales are up and down for a lot of people right now...but...you asked, and I'll give you MY opinion.

Cover needs changed ASAP. Look at the bestselling books in your genre. They have eye-catching covers. Yours...very plain and doesn't reflect the genre at all. You can find pre-made covers for $35-100 that are heads and shoulders above this one.

Also your blurb is very dry. While looking at covers, look at blurbs. That's something you can change today. 

Best of luck, and a big (((hug)))! 

Eta: three oher posts posted while I was typing. Sorry! Not intending a pile-on!


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

1. Don't drop your book price. Leave it where you had it. If you make it look bargain basement people will have even less incentive to grab it.

2. Work on your blurb. Show, don't tell. Spice it up. You don't want it to sound like the description of your book from the Wikipedia article. 

3. The cover needs something else. I like what's there, but it needs something else to make it pop. As it is, it just doesn't scream "epic fantasy" to me.

There's a good support structure *here* if you want it.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

My mom and dad buy my books and that's it. I have a very large and tight extended family and they don't read my books. My friends don't read my books. While this initially bugged me, I realized eventually I was in the wrong. Expecting them to buy my stuff made me the expectant friend. It's no different from people trying to hawk essential oils, Origami Owl, Avon, etc. you are never going to make it off friends and family. The honest truth is almost no one sees sustained sales off a first book. You're not alone. It generally takes time and multiple books.
Also, now that I make money, all the friends and family who didn't want to buy my books now want me to help them write books. Everything is circular in life.
Now eat some ice cream, buck up and start writing another book.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Seeing low or dropping sales can be really depressing. And for many of us, it doesn't matter if you sell 10 books at month or 100 or whatever. I think it was Monique here who once said that sales are never enough. That stuck with me because it's true. If you sell ten you want a hundred. I am still trying to develop a thicker hide and not let my mood be dictated by sales. 

I looked at your book and I think your blurb could use a little goosing. It belabors an obvious plot (forces must do battle or everyone ends up badly) but it doesn't tease. It doesn't give me any hints about what will make that journey fun to read. I already know who wins and that isn't even the point. The point is what happens along the way. Gimme a clue to make me open the book.

Your "look inside" piece reads very well, I think.


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## Victoria J (Jul 5, 2011)

Fantasy, science fiction author here!  

I haven't read the book so I have no opinion of it. However, your cover doesn't work at all for the genre I presume you're writing in (Fantasy? Dark fantasy?) I think that's what's holding you back. Big time. Take a look at the covers of the top selling fantasy indie books on Amazon and that will give you an idea of what's working.


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## Stefan Homberger (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you everyone! I'm surprised I got so many repsones so quickly. I'm going to work on a new cover, return the price to normal, and rework my blurb. Then I'm going to get back to work on the sequel and other books I have scheduled to release soon. I know I need to not think about sales and just enjoy the process, but man is that hard some days.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

You didn't mention doing book promotions with services such as ENT, Books Butterfly etc. Those are probably much more effective than any social media promotion or book trailer could be, so definitely look into getting promoted by some of those services (multiple is always better than one).

Also, definitely a new cover.


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## Sara C (Apr 30, 2014)

*Hugs* Try not to get too discouraged yet. I saw very little success until I had my third book out. It really is hard to do much with only one or two books. On the subject of people being less than supportive....well, it sucks. I've had so many people in my life be like, "Oh, you're writing books?...That's nice." (there was usually an eye roll when they said it). Else they would tell me what I should be writing, or say something like, sure, get your name out there with YA fantasy, then write a _good_ book. Rather than letting them get you down, think of how awesome it will feel when you start getting a following, and you can give them a big fat _I told you so._ Focus on yourself and your writing, keep in mind all of the awesome advice posted on these boards, and pay no mind to the naysayers .


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

It's really hard to sell a single book.  What's next on your to-do list?  Keep on writing!!


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

KelliWolfe said:


> 1. Don't drop your book price. Leave it where you had it. If you make it look bargain basement people will have even less incentive to grab it.
> 
> 2. Work on your blurb. Show, don't tell. Spice it up. You don't want it to sound like the description of your book from the Wikipedia article.
> 
> 3. The cover needs something else. I like what's there, but it needs something else to make it pop. As it is, it just doesn't scream "epic fantasy" to me.


Agree with all of this - first book at 99 cents is a strategy from three years ago that doesn't really work anymore. Now people are suspicious of 99 cent books unless you have a long series and it's the lead-in. Wait till you have a few more books, then you can drop the price or go perma-free on the first one.

I'd add that you should populate your author page on Amazon with something about yourself.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

I know how easy to get demoralized it is. There are some good suggestions in this thread, and you should consider implementing them. But when you're in a tough place mentally that's hard.

Remember why you started writing in the first place? How about the first time someone picked up your book and liked it? People have paid money for a novel YOU wrote. Not a ton of them (yet), but some people have chosen to part with their money to purchase something you made up and wrote down.

Marketing can be learned. Visibility will come once you do. Until then take pride in what you've accomplished. It may feel like a lot of people have successfully published a novel if you look around here, but the truth is very few people ever finish a book. Even fewer publish it. You've done both. Hang in there!


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## joyceharmon (May 21, 2012)

And just out of curiosity, what  is 'dark fantasy'? Is it more violent than regular fantasy?


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Stefan, I think most people are going to say the same stuff, including that this is a very tough business, and that it's awfully hard to get established. Most of us do not and never will support ourselves with our writing. We take it seriously, but we have day jobs. If you present your writing to your family as your "hobby" (however central it may actually be _to you_), they may be more accepting. Everyone has friends/family with unusual hobbies, after all. You can always point out how much time and money your mother spends on scrap-booking or your brother on dog obedience training, or whatever. Everyone has a right to their passions.

I checked out your book, and here's the stuff that struck me:

- Check out the covers of the books that sell well in your genre categories:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/157062011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_5_last (horror > dark fantasy)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/158580011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_3_5_last (fantasy > epic)
None of them look like your cover. They almost all have people on them or a central relevant symbol. Your cover should trumpet your book's genre. It's more important to fit in than to stand out. The cover is the most important sales tool you have.

- Your blurb doesn't really make me want to pick up the book. It gives me the sense that the conflict is largely mental/internal, while fantasy is largely mostly plot-driven. I don't really get a sense of where the action is taking place, who/what these various people are (especially "Hunter"), and what's going to be cool and interesting about them and the world-building. Only at the very end did I realize that maybe Hunter is the story's hero. If he is, I'd suggest starting with him ("Possessing the mind of of a foolish wizard like Arthur Dower isn't easy, but Hunter, a long-forgotten god of battle, knows it's the only way to stop the resurrection of his evil rival, Baalselik, the god of death ... etc., etc."). Blurbs are tough, and I'm not good at them myself, but they're worth getting right -- a key sales tool. People here who are better at them than I am can help.

- See if you can get the book into some smaller categories. If you get into science-fiction and fantasy (not horror), you can use keywords to trigger placement in subcategories where you book might get more visibility. Here's the keyword chart: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2G3ZMYDPB9VRM There's nothing wrong with horror as a category, but I don't think it offers as many subcategories.

- If you stay in KDP Select/KU, make sure your next use of free days is planned well ahead of time, so that you can line of lots of promotion. There are too many free books now to get good visibility without promotion. One of our members here, C. Gockel, keeps a terrific spread sheet of places to promote free books: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,193994.0.html

- Keep reading in your genre, so that you can be sure the books you're writing meet readers' expectations on stuff like pacing, paragraph length, balance of description vs. dialogue, etc.

- Read up on keywording: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,205816.0.html

- Hang around here and let us get to know you. You'll make connections and people will check out your books. If they like them, you might get some promotion from other authors. At the very least, we're here to support and encourage.


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## DawnLee (Aug 17, 2014)

Everything everyone else said. Everything that Chris said...twice.

Writers are pretty emotional people. It's also easy to get discouraged when you're in an industry this difficult to succeed in.

Here's what I'd like to add: My first book, _See You_, is a stand alone in a category where it's really hard to drill down to your audience. My intention was to release a second stand alone, same category, called The Cricket Jar. But, between raising my kids, working fulltime as a freelancer, and the disappointment of getting great reviews but single digit monthly sales, I was just stuck. I was excited about The Cricket Jar, and I think it might end up being my best book, but I felt no sense of urgency to get it done, because I doubted that it would find an audience, either. Added to all of that was the fact that I was in serious financial straits, because I'd cut back on freelancing so I could have more time to write.

But things can change very quickly. I got an idea for a series, something I never thought I could write, and all of a sudden all this great stuff is happening. I feel good about my writing again, although self-doubt slaps me around on a daily basis. I'm out of freelancing, and making far more money than I did as a ghostwriter or in my previous career. The thing is, you're already doing the most important thing you can do to turn things around; you're writing the next books. To be honest, I would finish the series (serial?) first, and market the crap out of it while you work on your sequel.

I'm sorry that your family doesn't support you, but you can find plenty of extended family in the writing community. They will support you, and they will lift you up when crap gets....well, crappy, as crap often does.


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## OEGaudio (Jul 26, 2012)

All I can say is hang in there. I wrote a YA book for Nanowrimo in 2013. I then wrote 2 sequels by May of 2014 and made the first one permafree. Between November 2013 and January of 2015 I sold about 100 copies. I was confident the books were good and should sell. For whatever reason they took off and are selling like hotcakes and I've now given away 115k copies of the first one this year. You never know when things are going to change and get much better. This world we are a part of has no hard and fast rules... just keep writing and keep publishing the best books you can, that's the only thing to do.


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## CarolynVMurray (Mar 13, 2015)

Usually when I read a fantasy blurb, I get confused with the names and the new strange world, and excess of subplots. It's a hard genre to stand out in. There have been some blurbs that did pull me in with a unique premise, presented very clearly. I had to read your blurb too many times to figure out what was happening in the story.

I took a stab at it:

The resurrection of the dead god Baalselik threatens the world with...?? (a dark age of deceit and despair, whatever) Hunter ____'s only chance of stopping this destruction is through taking possession of another man's body. But two souls sharing and fighting for dominance in one body will threaten Hunter's ability to fight the true enemy.

Or something to that effect -- lay out the story more simply. Use as few names as possible.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

Some people on these boards will make you feel like an abject failure if your books don't sell well right out of the gate. But that is simply not the case.

When I started publishing in 2011, I was selling at or below your level for the better part of a year. I just kept plugging along, learning and adapting as well as I could, and now I'm consistently hitting the upper three figures each month. To some on these boards, that's still a failure, but I have no doubt that as I continue to do what I'm doing, sales will consistently grow.

Also, I know you're looking more for consolation than advice, but if you want to keep writing, you HAVE to learn how to keep your emotions from becoming dependent on things that you cannot control. This is the most important lesson I have learned in my entire career. It feels good to see the little red line spike up on your KDP reports, but if you become emotionally dependent on that, you're setting yourself up for a hard fall. When the roller coaster hits its highest crest, that is not the time to unbuckle your seatbelt and climb out of your seat.

Best of luck, and I sincerely hope things work out for you!


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## Doril (Nov 2, 2013)

HMeloche said:


> I'm sorry to hear that! Hugs, and I'm afraid I haven't been around Kindle nearly long enough to have any advice... but as a voracious reader I can say the cover doesn't match the blurb for me. It wouldn't, for instance, make me stop and click on it if it popped up in my fantasy browsing "other readers also bought" list. I'd suggest something with more focus than just parchment paper texture and the title - even if you make up a mark or symbol of some sort for the dead god and that's on there, that would be more eye catching.


I totally agree.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Read the look inside.
I like your writing style. Occasionally seemed a little too "epic" but probably perfect for fantasy.
I also like the cover, but can see why it isn't inspiring people to buy.
There were three typos/incorrect word usage and a tense mistake, but I doubt whether prospective purchasers would notice.
As are others, I am dubious of the 99 cents price point unless it's a promo.
Change the price to $3.99 - $4.99, that will up your profit from the once in a while purchases, then run a 99 cents promo with all the free sites (or pay if you have the money to spend – just be careful as most are not worth the money).
Most importantly, get parts 2 & 3 written. Then you have something to talk about.
Don't be depressed, your stuff is good. Most of the books people buy really aren't all that good, just good enough.
The key is to show up and keep showing up.


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## Indiecognito (May 19, 2014)

What everyone else said. Definitely invest in another cover--it doesn't have to be super-expensive, trust me!
And as for your blurb, show, don't tell applies to those too. Instead of: The Witch's Blade is dark, character driven fantasy telling the story...

Consider starting with "Two men, entangled in..." Imagine a boomy, movie-theater preview voice announcing the action as it unfolds before your eyes. 

"Who will triumph?" asks the voice as you scarf down popcorn and somebody lops off someone else's noggin.

"A struggle for dominance..." as two men clash in an epic battle. 

"A long-dead god," as Baalselik strolls through the park all Balrog-like, fire shooting out his eyes at innocent bystanders (Okay, well, maybe not exactly that).

You want people opening that first page. A good cover and blurb work wonders. But nothing works like a second and third book. 

Chin up! No one in my family has ever read a word I write, and I'm so glad.


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

Stefan Homberger said:


> I've been extremely depressed lately, and I thought I'd come here to get some advice or cheering up. I published my first book on Amazon in February and sales have been non-existent. The sequel is going up in August along with a new stand-alone novel and the start of an episodic series. I've been promoting everywhere I can think of- even going so far as to create a trailer for the book and posting on my Youtube channel (starting to build a small following there)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Stefan.

I've been an indie writer since 2011 and I have been there, my friend. I started off with really low sales that made me depressed and wonder if I was fooling myself. I would hit Refresh on the Amazon dashboard an insane and unhealthy amount of times. And then I thought to myself, why am I wasting time when I could be writing? So, I weaned myself off sales-checking and wrote and wrote, and then published and published. As I have published more books, my sales have increased. I am nowhere near the level or best-seller or making even enough to do this full-time, but I have gone from 5 sales a month (and that was a lucky month) to averaging 50 a month. Now, I know that's small change to some authors on here, but I am happy that year upon year that total is growing.

The fact you have a sequel, standalone and a series on the horizon is fantastic! They will keep you busy, and readers like choice from an author. The more books the merrier. I do agree with other posters about the cover and blurb, though. I like the title font you've used and I like the pattern running down the left hand side but it does need something more.

One last thing. 10 sales + 80 downloads = 90 people who have your book! How cool is that?!

Good luck and hang on in there.


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

I can't help. I'm depressed too.

Mine is heading toward 500K

Just keep writing!


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## CJ Davis (Aug 12, 2013)

No worries man.  You have written a book!  Be proud of that.  I'm publishing my second book this weekend and it still blows me away that I've accomplished this, regardless of how many books I've sold.  The sales will eventually come. Stick with it!  I'm also a marathon runner (just ran my sixth in April), and I get a similar feeling after completing both journeys.  There's always going to be books that sell more or marathoners who run faster.  It needs to be about you, and you've accomplished something that most people could never do!


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## AA.A (Sep 6, 2012)

Change the cover. Work on a new promo. You will see some change, trust me!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

Since so many people have mentioned the cover, I just wanted to provide this link since someone recommended it to me last month and I love it.

http://thebookcoverdesigner.com

Rather than one graphic artist, it's just a site where a bunch of designers have put up their work and you can scroll through thousands of different stock images to find one perfect for your book - and the prices are usually very reasonable (some are kind of high for a stock, but most are under $50).


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## geronl (May 7, 2015)

Joe Vasicek said:


> Some people on these boards will make you feel like an abject failure if your books don't sell well right out of the gate.


lol. I didn't need help for that.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

I agree with the others on the cover and the blurb. Also, I agree that you shouldn't lower the price *except* when you have a sale. You'll get there. It will just take time.

Look at the back matter in your book and make it work for you. Are you politely asking readers for a review and making it easy for them by giving a link to your book so they don't have to hunt for it? After you publish the next book, include an excerpt at the end of the first book in your series to give the reader a sample of where it's going.

Good luck!!!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

Joe Vasicek said:


> Some people on these boards will make you feel like an abject failure if your books don't sell well right out of the gate. But that is simply not the case.


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. (Eleanor Roosevelt) ~~ Joe, you need to remember that.

~~~

Stefan, you've received some excellent help in this thread. I wish you all the best.


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## Tommy Muncie (Dec 8, 2014)

A few words of encouragement for you...

Your writing style made a good first impression on me. I don't think I'm your reader, and I've a pile of books to read already, but I've done enough work-shopping and read enough to know the signs of someone competent. As long as you've got that going for you, that's a start.

I agree with the others about the cover not making a good first impression, or the blurb. But this can all be turned around. You're a decent enough writer that I expect you could teach yourself how to write a much better blurb for this book, or learn from someone who can give you pointers. As far as the cover goes, there are ideas going on right from the first page of your book that your current cover simply doesn't promise. Get a cover sorted that promises some of what's in your story and make it target the kind of readers you are aiming at.

I'm not huge on sales either, and still experimenting with how to turn things around myself.* The best thing about this is that the tips and techniques that can generate sales, make your writing better and connect you with potential readers are not a secret.* You'll get some advice that won't help, and some that's just simply nonsense, but the longer you stick at this, the better you'll become at acting as the filter for all this. Lately I've been focusing on finding out more about the sales and business side of things as well as writing the books, and sometimes it can only a matter of connecting with the right person and finding things that work and it could all take off. Some of the other writers on this forum have had masses of success with all this. Check them out, read their books, drop them a private message or an email or a note on their blog (and don't be shy! Nobody's bitten me yet when I've written long posts asking how they're doing what they're doing) I've got this sort of thing going on at the moment, and it's pretty exciting! I've lifted myself out the sort of doldrums you've got going on at the moment, and it's all possible as long as you've got something to play for.

Hope this helped.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Family support means different things to different people, depending on individual circumstances. It's not always a "just tune them out" situation. You're not alone in facing trouble on the family front, but as others have said, there's a good support structure right here.

Lack of family support for your writing can be an "oh well, whatever" thing or it can be crippling. It depends on a lot more factors than just the writer's attitude. If I was single and living alone, and my family (parents, siblings, etc.) didn't show any interest in my books, I could see that being more of an "oh well" thing. But if "family" means people you're around on a constant basis (wife and kids, or living with parents, or whatever), negativity about your writing can have a much bigger impact -- sometimes to the point of literal interference. "Write more books" doesn't work if those you're living with are actively disrupting the writing process. When you're at the beginning and trying to build up initial sales, the discouragement that comes easily from lack of early results can be massively amplified by family hostility toward your writing.

I won't go into my own family dynamics here, but I will say that my experience has shown that the negative impact from lack of family support is not limited to writing. It can arise with any endeavor that involves building something new based on your personal vision, which includes any small business as well as other things. As I said... you're not alone. The KBoards community can be vastly more supportive than family members who have their own agendas and who may not see (or want to admit) that your writing success could make their lives better.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I'll be the voice of dissent, I guess.

I read your look-inside.  The writing is not great, to be honest. It's overdone, convoluted, confusing, and could use a lot of craft work.  My opinion, sorry.

So I'm not sure that covers and editing and blurb help will do that much besides waste money that would be better spent on a new project. It might be that this isn't the book that will do it for you and you should take what you've learned and move on to writing another book. Perhaps read some craft books and get some feedback on your next one before you publish?


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Annie B said:


> I'll be the voice of dissent, I guess.
> 
> I read your look-inside. The writing is not great, to be honest. It's overdone, convoluted, confusing, and could use a lot of craft work. My opinion, sorry.
> 
> So I'm not sure that covers and editing and blurb help will do that much besides waste money that would be better spent on a new project. It might be that this isn't the book that will do it for you and you should take what you've learned and move on to writing another book. Perhaps read some craft books and get some feedback on your next one before you publish?


I thought it was just me on the writing.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> I thought it was just me on the writing.


It's not bad, I think. Just not quite right for genre fiction. I think the building blocks are there.


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## Fill in the Blank Author (Jul 12, 2015)

Looking at the sample I see a lot of novice mistakes that will prevent a reader from enjoying your story. They can be addressed, but it will take some work. I'm curious what you did to work on craft before publication? Were you involved in any workshops? (sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com has a good one.) Perhaps some books on craft or critique groups? I'd suggest pulling this book from publication, at least temporarily, and working on refining your craft, then republishing a revised version along with a better cover and blurb. It wouldn't be a good idea to leave it as-is, because you might write an amazing book 2 in the series but readers are unlikely to get there because of the issues with book 1.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

Jolie du Pre said:


> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. (Eleanor Roosevelt) ~~ Joe, you need to remember that.
> 
> ~~~
> 
> Stefan, you've received some excellent help in this thread. I wish you all the best.


Sorry, some people will TRY to make you feel like an abject failure...


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Becca Mills said:


> It's not bad, I think. Just not quite right for genre fiction. I think the building blocks are there.


I thought it had the right level of pomposity for the genre.
But what do I know?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Flay Otters said:


> I thought it had the right level of pomposity for the genre.
> But what do I know?


It doesn't. Pomposity is not a good thing, in pretty much any genre, but in spec genres you really want clarity, and strong characters and setting etc.  It is not good, sorry. Building blocks are not there, in my opinion. I realize that it is unpopular to give writing advice, but the #1 reason people fail to sell is that the foundation isn't there because the book just isn't good enough  Some things are subjective, but basic craft and storytelling aren't.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Flay Otters said:


> I thought it had the right level of pomposity for the genre.
> But what do I know?


Most genre fiction tends toward short, straightforward sentences, limited vocabulary, and short paragraphs. I don't think today's epic fantasy is really any different, though you might get the occasional character spouting off in something more elaborate.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

It lost me at moist suck.


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## Chrisbwritin (Jan 28, 2014)

I do like the imagery and there are some nuggets of promise in there! But I am going to have to agree with some of the other posters and say that some workshops and some study of POV, passive voice, grammar, and general fiction writing would be a huge help here. I'm so sorry you're depressed about your sales   but the truth is, we all started somewhere and I daresay 90% of working authors would look back on their first books and cringe to some degree at the sort of new-author mistakes and tendencies (I know I did, and wound up rewriting the thing as soon as rights reverted back to me!) In any case, good luck with it and wishing you better sales in future.


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## Gone Girl (Mar 7, 2015)

We miss you, Harvey Chute.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

geronl said:


> I can't help. I'm depressed too.
> 
> Mine is heading toward 500K
> 
> Just keep writing!


I wasn't going to comment, but... seeing as almost every post you make in every thread sounds depressed and frustrated, PM me if you want to hear my opinion on why I think your books aren't selling.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Annie B said:


> It doesn't. Pomposity is not a good thing, in pretty much any genre, but in spec genres you really want clarity, and strong characters and setting etc.  It is not good, sorry. Building blocks are not there, in my opinion. I realize that it is unpopular to give writing advice, but the #1 reason people fail to sell is that the foundation isn't there because the book just isn't good enough  Some things are subjective, but basic craft and storytelling aren't.


You may well be right, Annie -- I don't know. By "building blocks" I meant prose building blocks. I didn't read nearly enough of the book to get a sense of the storytelling.


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## jenminkman (Mar 2, 2013)

I agree with the others on this thread - the cover is too boring. The blurb is also sort of vague-ish. Once you fix those two elements and you publish the second book in your series, try making the first book free for a while and get a LOT of promo sites to talk about your freebie. You'll need some reviews for most promo sites, at least 5, I think. 
I haven't taken a look at the look-inside. I used to read a lot of fantasy, and now I no longer do, so I don't think I'm the right person to talk to when it comes to judging the quality of your writing, or whether the style is suitable for the genre. I guess lots of people also feel that the writing of The Silmarillion is convoluted and too pompous, but to be honest I loved that book 
Anyway, if you give away your book as a freebie, it might lead to follow-up sales of Book 2. Make sure you have a link straight after the story ends, saying something like : want to know what happens to *insert name here*? Grab book 2 here > *Amazon link*
If you see no follow-up sales, it might indeed mean that people didn't like book 1 enough to keep reading. Always be open-minded about taking a hard look at your own work, but always write what you love or you'll never grow.

My two cents!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Chrisbwritin said:


> I do like the imagery and there are some nuggets of promise in there! But I am going to have to agree with some of the other posters and say that some workshops and some study of POV, passive voice, grammar, and general fiction writing would be a huge help here. I'm so sorry you're depressed about your sales  but the truth is, we all started somewhere and I daresay 90% of working authors would look back on their first books and cringe to some degree at the sort of new-author mistakes and tendencies (I know I did, and wound up rewriting the thing as soon as rights reverted back to me!) In any case, good luck with it and wishing you better sales in future.


It's true. I have five novels and a couple dozen short stories that will never see the light of day. I might have even deleted a couple of those novels by now (not sure if they made the last harddrive transfer or not).

And it's not that you can't use rich language in fantasy, but there is a difference between just using a lot of words and using words to evoke and envision the setting, story, and character. Purple prose is a step to far, sorry, and going to turn away a lot of audience even if the cover etc were more professional.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Annie B said:


> It's true. I have five novels and a couple dozen short stories that will never see the light of day. I might have even deleted a couple of those novels by now (not sure if they made the last harddrive transfer or not).
> 
> And it's not that you can't use rich language in fantasy, but there is a difference between just using a lot of words and using words to evoke and envision the setting, story, and character. Purple prose is a step to far, sorry, and going to turn away a lot of audience even if the cover etc were more professional.


You can pry my E.R. Eddison from my cold, dead fingers...


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2015)

Joe Vasicek said:


> Sorry, some people will TRY to make you feel like an abject failure...


Joe, most of us are unfamiliar with each other's backgrounds, mental conditions or physical conditions. Also, I've encountered outspoken, dogmatic authors online who when I've met them at writers' conferences, I never heard a peep out of them. It's easier to be bold when you're sitting in front of a computer screen than when you're talking to a person face to face.

Bottom line, there are over 7 billion people on the planet. Participants at Writers' Cafe represent a minuscule portion of that over 7 billion. If one or two or three people at Writers' Cafe are unsavory, ignore them and move on.

It's a big, wide world out there. Redirect your focus.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

TOS.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Annie B said:


> It doesn't. Pomposity is not a good thing, in pretty much any genre, but in spec genres you really want clarity, and strong characters and setting etc.  It is not good, sorry. Building blocks are not there, in my opinion. I realize that it is unpopular to give writing advice, but the #1 reason people fail to sell is that the foundation isn't there because the book just isn't good enough  Some things are subjective, but basic craft and storytelling aren't.


And that's why I don't link to any of my literary gems on KB.


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## Dennis E. Taylor (Feb 10, 2015)

I published my first novel in January, one month before you. I've had a couple of giveaways, and I've given away a lot more books than you. My sales are also higher. I'm not trying to rub it in, I'm trying to make a point. You've gotten one review, and it's a good one. It'd be different it there were a bunch of bad reviews telling people to stay away, but that's not the case. People are not picking your book up in the first place.

So what everyone is saying-- replace your cover, redo your blurb. The blurb isn't hooky at all. I'd suggest that you write something and post it for blurb critique. Right off the bat, you can get rid of the first sentence.

ETA: As well as critters.org as mentioned, there's critiquecircle.com, which allows you to post your work a chapter at a time (more or less) and get individual critiques for it. Well worth it for discovering systemic issues with your writing.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

Almost all of us here have written tons of stories that will never be published professionally. (I did them all in fanfiction--and man, there were a few that eh, I don't want to talk about it. Heck, even most of my fanfics started with three or four false starts.)

Craft workshops that are *free* are great. You can meet other writers just starting out and get a great network going. You can work on just WRITING, not selling, and that is liberating because writing is what you really want to do, right? Selling is a b!+¢h even when it's going well.

I agree that with genre fiction you really don't want to pull any punches and try to get the point across with as few words as necessary. You don't have to be Hemingway, but you don't want the reader to think to much about your prose. Also, how many betas did you have on this project? You need betas. A few who are readers who say, "Ummm ... what does this mean?" And a few that are writers who say, "There is no tension here!"

Best of luck to you.


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## BaileyM (Jun 16, 2015)

No advice to give, just wanted to offer hugs...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Doctor Manifest said:


> Hey Stefan,
> 
> I'm not sure I'm in position to give you any "advice" as a newly published author myself, but I can share my recent success with my first E-Book, and what I did to help me accomplish that. My first E-Book entitled "Comprehensive Capricorn" shot to # 1 Best Seller on Amazon Kindle in less than a week! It went on Sale July 5th, 2015, as of July 16, 2015 I have sold 67 copies! Now, since I am "new" to this side of things, I like you ,was actually upset because I didn't think I was doing well (by MY standards) Let me explain why I say that. Well before I wrote and published that E-Book, I started a community of Capricorns with well over 40,000 members/supporters (collectively with all my promotional pages and communities) Needless to say, with those numbers I expected at least a third of them to support the book and all I had to do was sit back and count the massive amount of sales coming in, but that did NOT happen! However I think with me having a following still played and continues to play a role in the success my E-Book "Comprehensive Capricorn is having. The sales are pretty CONSISTENT to, so for me, that's the key. Again I wouldn't say this is advice but hopefully it helped or encouraged you in SOME way. All the best to you!
> 
> ...


Number 1 in all of Amazon or number 1 in a subcat?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Doctor Manifest said:


> In Astrology (Kindle Books)


I know you are new, but fyi you might want to adjust your #1 Bestseller tag to list #1 Bestseller in Nonfiction>Astrology. It's a little deceiving to say #1 Bestseller without having hit #1 on all of Amazon, which I know you don't mean to do.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

I don't want to repeat what has already been said. I do not write in your genre so I have no advice to give on that front. I will say, I am new as well. And I have 3 books published, another one on the way this Wednesday. The best thing you can do is write more and publish more. I have sold no books today. I saw the title of your thread and my heart broke because I know how it feels. You pour yourself into something and when no one cares, it hurts. Even though intellectually I know the universe doesn't owe me a damn thing, you still want people to respond to your work.

I hope you take the good advice here and work with it. The cool thing about this way of publishing is that nothing is set in stone. We can change things at any time. I have edited and caught mistakes and republished some of my books a few times now because I'm always trying to get better. So don't give up if all this advice seems overwhelming. So many of the successful people here were where you are now.

We had a great thread on how to stay positive. Read it! It helps me when I'm down.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,218004.0.html

I wish you the best, I really do.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

Doctor Manifest said:


> ...My first E-Book entitled "Comprehensive Capricorn" shot to # 1 Best Seller on Amazon Kindle in less than a week! It went on Sale July 5th, 2015, as of July 16, 2015 I have sold 67 copies!


Your book title & blurb on Amazon both announce that your novel is the #1 bestseller on Amazon. Can you reach the #1 slot overall by selling 67 copies a week? GREY hit the #1 spot and sold a million over a weekend...


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi, Stefan:

From what I have read, most people who dream of writing a novel never do more than that -- they dream. Only a small fraction of people who dream of it actually put pen to paper and give it a real try. Of those who do, only a small fraction of those will actually finish a novel. So congratulations! You are one of a very small club of people who dreamed of writing a novel and actually followed through!

When you get depressed over low sales, remember that. You are miles above all the others who only dreamed of writing a novel.

I think you have a great premise. A dead god (presumably in some kind of godly stasis) plots his rebirth and uses a man to attain his resurrection. Our hero, Hunter, must fight the two souls inside of him in order to prevent the god's rebirth and the darkness that will entail. You have a real hero's journey in your premise.

Of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. There are five important parts of selling books, in my view:

1. The book itself. It has to be more than satisfactory. It has to be great if you want to sell more than a handful of copies. Great means different things to different audiences. So you have to know your genre, your genre tropes and make sure you give readers that plus a special twist that only you can give. Only you can tell your story the way you would. 
2. The preview. It has to hook your reader and make it so that they MUST click purchase.
3. The cover -- it is probably the most important thing on your product page because if the cover is lacklustre, people will not even bother to read the product description and especially not the preview. 
4. The product description. A great hook is necessary. Think in terms of elevator pitches, log lines, etc. Short, to the point, and compelling.
5. Reviews - they are social proof that the book is great. You need about 20 before Amazon algorithms will notice you and start selling your book to its customers, from what I have read. How to get reviews? Give away free copies in return for reviews. You can use a variety of places to do that. Facebook, Goodreads, free days in Select.

I haven't read your book so I can't comment on whether it meets reader expectations. I checked your preview and I think you can definitely write, but I saw a couple of typos and some difficult passages. I don't know if you have had anyone else edit your work. If not, you might consider getting your novel edited by someone who is familiar with the genre of epic / high / dark fantasy / sword and sorcery. You can hire an editor by going to eLance and putting out a request if you can pay and don't know where to start. If you can't afford to pay someone, you can always consider joining an online crit group such as Critters.org and teaming up with other fantasy authors to get crits on your work.

I've read a lot of high fantasy / sword and sorcery. The language in the genre can vary from gritty realism to high 'faultin and everything in between. I think a good solid edit would help your preview. The book itself is always the most important part of the package, and key to sales. Just reading over your preview, I thought it would be better to start in medias res -- in the middle of the action. The whole lead up to the inciting incident felt a bit slow whereas the inciting incident was exciting. Again, I felt it could use an edit to make it tighter. You have only a few short pages -- maybe 5 at the most, to hook your reader.

I agree with others here who have commented on your cover. People do judge a book by its cover. It's one of the main way we decide what to read. If a cover appeals, we will read the blurb and if that has a good hook, we will click on the preview.

If you are hard up for funds to buy a pro cover, there is a lot that can be done with simple tools on the net -- I use Ribbet.com to take stock images and add effects, text and other alterations. I did a quick mock up cover for you using an image I found on the net (without permission so don't use it). You can buy a similar stock image or pay an artist for use of a similar image and do the cover yourself using free online photo editing. I don't know if the image fits your story but I wanted to show what can be done on the cheap with a bit of effort and copying the basic design of covers your book will be competing with.



I think your product description could be tightened up. From reading the preview and blurb, I suspect that Hunter (Dower) is your hero and Creft is your antagonist. If so, the blurb could be revised to reflect that this is Hunter's story as it is him who is caught between the two arch-rivals. I take it that Hunter is possessed by Dower's soul and must struggle to gain control over himself and manage Dower's personality in order to stop Baalselik's resurrection.

Here is some info on log lines that are useful for book descriptions on the product page, snipped from Miss Snark's First Victim's blog:

From Blake Snyder's Save the Cat:

"A logline is the one- or two-sentence description of your [novel] that tells us what it is. It must contain a type of hero (that means a type of person plus an adjective that describes him), the antagonist (ditto), and the hero's primal goal. It must have irony, and it must bloom in our brains with potential."

From author Holly Bodger, the logline queen:

"When [MAIN CHARACTER] [INCITING INCIDENT], he [CONFLICT]. And if he doesn't [GOAL] he will [CONSEQUENCES]."

When Hunter _______ visits the city of ________, he is drawn unwittingly into a centuries-long plot to resurrect the dead god Baalselik. Possessed by another man's soul, arch-rival to the dead god's servant Arthur Creft, Hunter must learn to control the two personalities batting within him in order to stop Baalselik, whose rebirth threatens to spread a false religion throughout the world, snuffing out the light of truth.

Just a suggestion and needs much more work but you see what I mean.

Once again, be proud of your accomplishments and see this self publishing gig as a journey. You will learn a lot along the way and there are a lot of resources out there to help you. Most of us have first books that languished in the ranks. My own debut novel sold very slowly over the course of three years and it wasn't until I put it permafree and had a Bookbub that I sold a significant number of books in the series. Never give up. Self publishing is the long game. The more you write and publish, the better you get at it.

I should add that after you have figured out the whole product page, preview, cover, and log line, visibility is the most important part of selling books. I relied on David Gaughran's _Let's Get Visible_ and Platt's _Write, Publish, Repeat_ for lots of great advice on how to get your baby visible so that people can find and buy it.

Good luck!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

vrabinec said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by overdone, but it's not that convoluted and confusing. The first paragraph conveys the sense that the POV character has visions, dreams, or nightmares of having died and been reborn. He doesn't know if they're his own, or if they're some dead entity's intrusion on his consciousness. The fact that he's confused about it evident and doesn't allow him to clearly identify exactly what it is, but the circumstance is clear.
> 
> The second paragraph describes Hunter trudging along a muddy trail with a white hound at his side. The dog is hopping from grass clump to grass clump, avoiding the mud. He steps in the mud and splashes her.
> 
> ...


I gave my opinion. I'm not going to dig into a sentence by sentence crit because there's no point and the OP didn't ask for it. He can disregard what we're saying about the prose and spend money on covers and rework the blurb and maybe prove us wrong. It's his book, his career. But I stand by my opinion that this book will not sell well, ever, with the current craft level it is at. Frankly... ignore me, because the *market* ie readership has spoken by not voting with their dollars and time. It's maybe good to listen to that beyond anything else.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Sela wins the thread.

Seriously, this is why I love the KB: because every now and then, people who sell really well respond to a post like this and give solid advice without judgement. Listen to what she says.

Mostly, writing, and getting to a point where you start selling, is a long road. Yes, you hear about people who struck gold with their first book, but the rule about that is that the more you assume immediate success will apply to you (general you, not the OP), the less likely it is to happen.

Enjoy the process.
Don't worry about sales too much.
Be on the constant lookout to improve craft and presentation.
Write another book.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Annie B said:


> I gave my opinion. I'm not going to dig into a sentence by sentence crit because there's no point and the OP didn't ask for it. He can disregard what we're saying about the prose and spend money on covers and rework the blurb and maybe prove us wrong. It's his book, his career. But I stand by my opinion that this book will not sell well, ever, with the current craft level it is at. Frankly... ignore me, because the *market* ie readership has spoken by not voting with their dollars and time. It's maybe good to listen to that beyond anything else.


Will not sell ever. Pretty bold. I disagree with your assessment of the prose - I have read far worse that sold decently - and the way you are being so dismissive and writing off this book so completely. And as to the readership has spoken - BS.

I do think the book needs work, but it's far from terrible.

I'm biting my tongue to keep from saying the rest of what I have to say in response to Annie's posts.

Listen to one part of her post, OP, ignore her. Listen to the constructive criticism. There is a lot to work with. Take heart.

Reread Sela's post a few times.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Maybe I am being too dismissive. It's possible. As I said multiple times... this is my opinion. It's worth what you pay for it 

I just feel deeply for the frustration of not selling. I was there for a long time. So yeah, I come on strong sometimes, sorry.

As I said... I could be wrong. I don't understand why The Road by McCarthy sold so well either with the pretentious language and disregard for punctuation, so hey, what do I know   There might well be an audience for this book, too.

I think Sela had good points, for what it's worth.


ETA: I will say there are quite a few times I've bitten my tongue in threads like this, because of the exact reaction whenever you dare to suggest that a book itself isn't good and that no cover or marketing will get the desired results.  I tried on this one cause I feel for the OP and thought a little honesty (and again just MY OPINION nothing more, geez guys) might not hurt. Clearly I was wrong.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

You need a new cover. This is likely the reason you didn't get any initial success at release. 

Your book is now out of the 90 day period that Amazon does most of its promoting. It's going to be hard to get any momentum without pushing readers to it through an ad or something else. A second book would do wonders.

The Look-inside could use some editing, but quite frankly, I like your prose. I don't want to get into a huge debate here, but I'll just say that it's nice to read something that isn't short, declarative sentences. It's nice to see someone that actually cares about their prose. I've probably read 20-30 Look-insides today for research, and you likely have the best prose out of all of them.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Annie B said:


> Maybe I am being too dismissive. It's possible. As I said multiple times... this is my opinion. It's worth what you pay for it
> 
> I just feel deeply for the frustration of not selling. I was there for a long time. So yeah, I come on strong sometimes, sorry.
> 
> ...


The Road sold so well because it had an Oprah sticker. It won a Pulitzer because it's a good piece of literature.


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## JeanetteRaleigh (Jan 1, 2013)

Writing and selling books is an incredibly slow climb.  Some people get lucky the first time out, but for most of us, it takes experimenting and years of publishing new work.  You are describing my first year published, with tiny dribbles of sales. (My covers were atrocious, and it took a lot of practice and signing up with a good stock footage company and then more books.)


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## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

OP sent you a pm. Good luck


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Sela's advice is so wonderful, and that she took the time to make a cover for you to give you an idea of what a difference covers can make … that's pretty awesome. 

I also think your premise is really interesting, and I'm not even a fantasy reader! Some editing and cleaning up, and you've got a potentially great product with this novel.


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## Lady Q (Jun 27, 2015)

I recommend getting involved in a good critique group. Not only for the purpose of improving your craft, but also for forming relationships and giving and getting moral support. Writing is a lonely business. For most (if not all) of us, the self-doubts never completely go away. We need people in our corner, people who understand what we're going through because they've been there too.

I started off in the Online Writing Workshop many years ago. They offer a free month's trial so you can take a look around, get your feet wet, and decide if it'll work for you.

And what Sela said.


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

Annie B said:


> ETA: I will say there are quite a few times I've bitten my tongue in threads like this, because of the exact reaction whenever you dare to suggest that a book itself isn't good and that no cover or marketing will get the desired results. I tried on this one cause I feel for the OP and thought a little honesty (and again just MY OPINION nothing more, geez guys) might not hurt. Clearly I was wrong.


I don't think you were wrong. Maybe a bit blunt for an open forum. I read some of the sample, had signification issues with the prose... and said nothing. (Until now.) That's got to be way less valuable to the OP than hearing a dissenting opinion whether you end up agreeing with it or not.

It's tough to account for taste, but I was stumbling over a lot of the (overlong and convoluted in my opinion) early sentences. I think that will impact readers. The muddy tense stuff bugs me but probably won't bug readers. The handling of how the protag talked to his dog felt a bit clumsy--little to worry about until you pile it on the other things. And then I hit the sort of amusing "wide birth" typo (which many might not notice?) and as a reader I, personally, was checked out.

In short, while it was VERY far from the worst stuff I've read in a Kindle sample, it feels like prose that hasn't gotten quite enough outside feedback before being published. Perhaps a truly great story compensates for that, but I'd never find out.

That said, as many have noted the cover and blurb are the places to start. That might be enough. It might not. If it's not, it's hard to say whether it's better to go back and work on it more, or just write and publish the next story.

One other tidbit of advice--I think readers are super leery of a Book I that doesn't have the rest of the books available. Too many self-pub authors have burned readers. My advice, make sure your book stands alone even if it's part of a series, and don't put the series stuff on the cover until the sequel is published.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Sela, given how busy you are as an author, what you did for Stefan was a selfless act of kindness that's impressive. I hope he appreciates it.

I'm in no position in my writing career to give extensive advice, but your example of giving back to the community is something I won't forget if I find myself there.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

JeanetteRaleigh said:


> Writing and selling books is an incredibly slow climb. Some people get lucky the first time out, but for most of us, it takes experimenting and years of publishing new work. You are describing my first year published, with tiny dribbles of sales. (My covers were atrocious, and it took a lot of practice and signing up with a good stock footage company and then more books.)


But, Jeanette, see--and here I am now, sticking my neck out--I looked at your covers and thought, well, YEAH, if your covers aren't genre-appropriate at all, it's slow. And the blurbs. And then I Looked Inside, fully prepared to think, sure, this won't work--and it DOES. It's funny and interesting and GOOD. But you've got the wrong covers.

SO--If you're pretty sure your work is good, but it's not selling, you really have to take a good hard look at why. And I think with covers that actually say, "funny, bright paranormal romance a la what's-her-name who writes the werewolves in Alaska," and blurbs to match, you'd sell.

It's not luck. It's getting all the pieces right. It really is.

(FWIW: I recently re-did my own covers, because it kept nagging at me that they weren't good enough anymore.)

So now I'll probably be modded because you didn't ask for feedback, the OP did. But I think that's what Annie's trying to do. To say, it's not just random chance. It's getting everything working right to help you sell. Whether that's the writing, the cover, the blurb, or all three. It's all got to be there.


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## AllyWho (May 16, 2015)

I love the cover Sela made - it draws the eye and conveys so much more about the tone/genre of the book


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

J. Tanner said:


> Annie B said:
> 
> 
> > ETA: I will say there are quite a few times I've bitten my tongue in threads like this, because of the exact reaction whenever you dare to suggest that a book itself isn't good and that no cover or marketing will get the desired results. I tried on this one cause I feel for the OP and thought a little honesty (and again just MY OPINION nothing more, geez guys) might not hurt. Clearly I was wrong.
> ...


The feedback J. Tanner and Annie are giving is essential, IMO. We all know that you can't just stick a shiny cover and catchy blurb on a weak book and expect it to sell. Obviously, there's some difference of opinion on where exactly Stefan's book falls on the spectrum, but some books don't prompt mixed opinions. We'd _all_ look at them and think, "Uh ... no." And when the authors of those books seek help, I hope we're honest with our thoughts, because some folks really do not have money to waste. So, good for y'all for calling it like you see it.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm all for not blowing smoke. I think there is far too much of that on this board. I just felt the delivery was a little harsher than it needed to be. The OP is depressed. There are ways to say the same things (see other posts in this thread) that are more constructive. And I stand by that.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> The feedback J. Tanner and Annie are giving is essential, IMO. We all know that you can't just stick a shiny cover and catchy blurb on a weak book and expect it to sell. Obviously, there's some difference of opinion on where exactly Stefan's book falls on the spectrum, but some books don't prompt mixed opinions. We'd _all_ look at them and think, "Uh ... no." And when the authors of those books seek help, I hope we're honest with our thoughts, because some folks really do not have money to waste. So, good for y'all for calling it like you see it.


Sela called it like she saw it, but she did it diplomatically. There's nothing at all wrong with that approach.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Monique said:


> I'm all for not blowing smoke. I think there is far too much of that on this board. I just felt the delivery was a little harsher than it needed to be. The OP is depressed. There are ways to say the same things (see other posts in this thread) that are more constructive. And I stand by that.


This.

When I was a noob, I paid for a well-known Australian genre writer to give me some advice. He read my sample and we had a very nice and amicable session in a local cafe. I came away with a whole bunch of advice that I could use to improve my work. Only when I got to the car did I realise that there was not a piece of my sample that he hadn't gutted. Basically, he had told me that my writing sucked big balls (and it did!), but I still felt positive because he told me exactly what I should do to make it better.

Then I thought: if you really want to help someone, the very last thing you do is make them feel hurt or angry, because at that point they will stop listening to you. You also don't want to cloak your advice in so much feelgood BS that the content gets lost. Giving useful advice on writing is actually really hard.

Sela's response was beautiful and appropriate.


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## Jason Riou (May 2, 2015)

Hey Stefan, congrats on writing a novel and putting it out there. I checked out your sample and agree with the majority: cover and blurb aren't hooking readers, and some workshopping or editing would improve your craft. I did glaze over a bit reading chapters 1 and 2--that's not a knock: it took me four attempts to digest ch1 of Trainspotting--it can take an effort to get an author's voice in your head. The trick is making people put in the effort. Your initial post on the thread was great. Responses flooded in. Get some of that mojo onto your amazon page and you're golden.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

I started out on my path to being a published author writing fan fiction in a genre and a fandom that shall remain unnamed. My first editor was a PhD in English Literature who had a weakness for a certain heroic character. Luckily for all us writers in her small group, we all learned from her. I so admired her writing. She was amazing. 

My work, in contrast, was rough and in need of serious editing. I knew it but didn't know what exactly was wrong. I got great comments on my stories but I knew my work did not measure up to hers.

She offered to edit my work and MAN OH MAN did it hurt soooo good. She was honest without being harsh and told me exactly what all my writerly problems were. She took a red pen to my stories and they were so marked up that you could barely see the black ink. 

She did it all with kindness and with an eye to really helping me make my work better, offering suggestions and showing me how a tweak here and a rewrite there could make a passage or section so much better. Because of her, I took myself seriously and I did learn to self-edit by looking at what she noted was wrong with my writing. Note that she liked my stories. In fact, she gave one of my stories the highest praise possible, saying that I had written the story she had always wanted to write. So I knew that I had good ideas and characters and generally could do it, but I needed to work on my grammar and prose -- the execution of those ideas in other words. 

I paid attention from then on, and I believe she is the reason I am a full-time indie author now.

So I don't believe in blowing smoke, but there is constructive criticism delivered in a way that will be heard and then there is everything else.

I have read a lot of indie books. Books I dislike actively are loved by many readers who give them 5-stars. Books I adore get 1-star reviews. I either have to conclude that all those who disagree with me are idiots, or I have to realize that what constitutes "great" when it comes to stories is subjective. Given how subjective this business is, I think its hubris to think that a book I dislike is not "good". I choose to believe that "good" is subjective. What matters is making your book the best you can and then working hard to get it in front of its audience. 

Let's face it -- you have to be audacious to publish a novel, putting it out there for everyone to judge. You have to believe in yourself and know that you have a vision, a story that compels you to write. What most of us don't realize starting out is that it will take a lot of work to achieve that vision and for your book to find its audience. 

A good edit can do wonders to help a book sell. It could be the difference between lacklustre sales and sales of which any writer can be proud. A good cover can warm a potential reader up to a story. A kick-ass log line can sell a book. Some smart marketing can get a book in front of potential readers. Each element is part of the whole and improving one or more can make the difference.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Monique said:


> I'm all for not blowing smoke. I think there is far too much of that on this board. I just felt the delivery was a little harsher than it needed to be. The OP is depressed. There are ways to say the same things (see other posts in this thread) that are more constructive. And I stand by that.


True, true. Tone and approach count for a lot.



Jolie du Pre said:


> Sela called it like she saw it, but she did it diplomatically. There's nothing at all wrong with that approach.


Yeah, Sela's post was masterful. I'm not sure it's entirely comparable, though, as she seems to think the book is stronger than Annie thinks it is.



Patty Jansen said:


> When I was a noob, I paid for a well-known Australian genre writer to give me some advice. He read my sample and we had a very nice and amicable session in a local cafe. I came away with a whole bunch of advice that I could use to improve my work. Only when I got to the car did I realise that there was not a piece of my sample that he hadn't gutted. Basically, he had told me that my writing sucked big balls (and it did!), but I still felt positive because he told me exactly what I should do to make it better.
> 
> Then I thought: if you really want to help someone, the very last thing you do is make them feel hurt or angry, because at that point they will stop listening to you. You also don't want to cloak your advice in so much feelgood BS that the content gets lost. Giving useful advice on writing is actually really hard.


Sounds like encountered a truly gifted teacher, Patty. Some people have this _touch_ ... it's amazing. Being a teacher, I know some of them. I wish I were one of them myself!


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Patty Jansen said:


> if you really want to help someone, the very last thing you do is make them feel hurt or angry, because at that point they will stop listening to you. You also don't want to cloak your advice in so much feelgood BS that the content gets lost. Giving useful advice on writing is actually really hard.


Yep. That's like the first three chapters in How To Win Friends and Influence People (good book, btw).


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## PearlEarringLady (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow, there's a load of pertinent advice in this thread already. Possibly more than the OP wanted.  I don't have anything at all to add to the practical advice. I just want to add my voice to those who've said: it takes time, one book isn't enough, keep writing, keep publishing, keep working at it.

Stefan, six months ago I was in exactly the same position as you. I released my first fantasy novel last September to an uninterested world. I sold a few copies to kind online friends. I did some modest promotion, sold a few more. Then - crickets. It flat-lined.

In January, I released the second book, and paid for about two weeks of promotion with sites like ENT, BargainBooksy, Booktastik, Awesomegang, Ebooksoda. Result: 250 sales during the promotion and a tail that lasted several weeks. And holy moly, sales of the first book picked up, too. In May, book 3 and more promotion produced a bunch more sales and yes, increased sales of _both _the other two books.

Cliff notes version:

1) Write more books.
2) Promote them using high-visibilty sites like ENT.
3) Lather, rinse, repeat.

Caveat: actual results may vary, depending on genre and a million other factors.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Angry mob? Isn't that overstating it a wee bit?


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

No. What occurred above is the literal textbook definition of an angry mob.

I counted 8 torches, and 3 pitchforks, so minumums met.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

One of the things I learned in Critters.org, which was drilled into our heads, was that if you really felt a book had no hope, you recused yourself from offering a critique. 

The reason? 

If you truly think a work sucks the big one and has no hope, what could you possibly offer to the author to help them improve? The purpose of constructive critique is not to tell someone their work is no good and will never sell, but to help them improve their work so that it achieves what they set out to achieve. If you see no hope for a work, you have nothing to offer. You have to "get" the author's intention for the piece in order to help them realize it.

There is often (always?) a gap between our vision for our book and the end product. Getting feedback and a good solid edit can help you see where you need work to achieve your objective. The feedback has to be helpful and constructive, but by constructive I don't mean blowing smoke and giving false praise. It means helping the author realize their vision. It's constructive rather than destructive, in that it helps improve a work rather than merely pointing out what is wrong. 

I always try to summarize the overall story and theme, etc. in a critique so that the author and I know we were both on the right page in terms of the story itself. I always try to point out what the author is doing right as well as what I think needs work. That's important, too!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Sorry I didn't phrase it nicely enough. 

Craft (not just technical but also storytelling/structure/etc) is the foundation of success upon which all other things are built, and those things come secondary. Too often that foundation is ignored and that leads to a lot of frustration.  I empathize with that frustration, but fixing it is totally within our control.  Why not give yourself all the best opportunities to succeed, even if the truth of what you need to do is sometimes also painful and often means a lot of extra work?  This business takes work. A lot of it.

I see three big reasons books fail to sell:
1) Not a good book (structure issues, craft issues, not hitting reader expectations, inconsistent world building and characterization etc)
2) Poorly presented book (poor editing, cover wrong for market/genre or just wrong/amateur looking, poor formatting, boring blurb etc)
3) Inconsistent or non-existent marketing (wrong genre keywords, wrong pricing, poorly handled or planned promotion, etc)

That's why 1 sale a day will get you into the top 100,000 books on Amazon. Because the other 3 million+ books probably have issues with one or more of the above. Want to be in the top 100k books? Fix the issues. (And yes, that's no guarantee, sometimes books don't sell no matter what and that's life and the market and readers for you, but at least you'll have done all you can to give them the leg up they might need while you hopefully take what you've learned and apply it to the next project).

And no, I don't mince words much. I work for myself. I don't have to play the corporate "wrap everything in gauze and sugar" to help it go down game.  I'm freely sharing my honest opinion. I fully acknowledge it is just an opinion and might be wrong. It's just advice, not a miracle pill, and I'm not going to coat it in chocolate to help it go down.


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## Scatterdown (May 3, 2015)

Briteka said:


> The Road sold so well because it had an Oprah sticker. It won a Pulitzer because it's a good piece of literature.


I liked The Road. Cormac MaCarthy doesn't use punctuation, and it's a bit of a literary contrivance, but it's really a showpiece of character execution when you don't actually need to know who said what when you reat the text. I've read books where the author has put a "said" tag after every instance of speech, like, c'mon. THAT'S amateur hour for ya.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Becca Mills said:


> True, true. Tone and approach count for a lot.


Especially in a public forum where everyone can see what you say.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

I agree with most of what has been said already, a new cover, like what Sela suggested and a more compelling blurb will help. I took a look at the first pages and while I agree that you could tighten it up a bit, there is a lot here to like as well. I particularly liked the dialogue with the dog. That was more engaging and drew me in. If you were to look more closely at revising, I would suggest trying to bring that more accessible and engaging tone to the rest of the writing. Some of the phrasing threw me out of the story somewhat with word choices like moist suck, for instance. But I think there's absolutely hope here and I wouldn't give up. I would play with this and see what you can do, and also get to work on the next book. Try not to take comments here too personally, though I know that's difficult when you're already feeling down. I would try and digest the comments that resonate with you and then move forward.  Good luck!


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

Here's the bottom line for everyone - craft matters. Even the most outstanding of stories can be ruined by poor craft. Some people obtain craft naturally, perhaps by reading so much and their mind assimilating the information even though they are not conscience of it. But most people need someone else to tell them where they're losing opportunities to make the story better. 

If you have writing workshops nearby that you can attend, do it. And I mean everyone starting out, not just the OP. I took years of workshops before I sold my first book. Find critique partners - people you can trust to tell you the truth, not kiss your butt. That doesn't sell books. Hire an editor. If you are self-publishing, I highly recommend investing the money in a developmental editor. They will tell you everything that's wrong with your book and that's worth gold (assuming you hire a qualified one). 

Anyone that thinks they've arrived and are good enough to forgo outside help when writing a novel, you're wrong. Dead wrong. No one has ever published a book that couldn't be better. Why run the risk of prejudicing readers against you by releasing a product that might have been great, but you didn't spend the additional time or dollars to get it that way? Some readers, when encountering one bad book by a writer, never try that writer again. 

For the record, I sold 14 books to NY houses and have self-published 10 novels and two novellas. My books regularly hit lists and that's without using pre-orders. Despite all that, when I wrote the first book in a thriller series (I normally write humorous mystery), I hired a developmental editor to read it first, before my normal round of editing/proofing. That's even with 14 years of experience and 23 books published. 

I am well aware that I'm never done learning. And that editor made the book better.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

I would say that craft doesn't matter whatsoever. Browse the top self-published authors on Amazon, and you'll find books and books filled with short, declarative sentences featuring the repetitive vocabulary of a ten year old. Some people get the wrong idea and think that craft DOES matter, which means that this 11-year-old-girl stream-of-conscious is good writing because, well, heck, craft matters and look how successful those authors are!


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

Briteka said:


> I would say that craft doesn't matter whatsoever. Browse the top self-published authors on Amazon, and you'll find books and books filled with short, declarative sentences featuring the repetitive vocabulary of a ten year old. Some people get the wrong idea and think that craft DOES matter, which means that this 11-year-old-girl stream-of-conscious is good writing because, well, heck, craft matters and look how successful those authors are!


I am one of the top selling authors on Amazon. My books are filled with short, declarative sentences featuring the repetitive vocabulary of a 5th grader (which is the general rule of what level mass market fiction should be written to). What is your point? Are you saying that shorter sentences, now used because of a more on-demand society are somehow not inclusive of craft? I think you're wrong. But carry on thinking it doesn't matter. I'll carry on improving my technique.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Jana DeLeon said:


> I am one of the top selling authors on Amazon. My books are filled with short, declarative sentences featuring the repetitive vocabulary of a 5th grader (which is the general rule of what level mass market fiction should be written to). What is your point? Are you saying that shorter sentences, now used because of a more on-demand society are somehow not inclusive of craft? I think you're wrong. But carry on thinking it doesn't matter. I'll carry on improving my technique.


If craft mattered, I wouldn't have a single pen name outselling all of the last ten Nobel Prize winners in literature on Amazon. If craft mattered, I wouldn't have over 100 erotica and erotic romance books with a higher rating than last year's Pulitzer winner.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Briteka said:


> If craft mattered, I wouldn't have a single pen name outselling all of the last ten Nobel Prize winners in literature on Amazon. If craft mattered, I wouldn't have over 100 erotica and erotic romance books with a higher rating than last year's Pulitzer winner.


So you are saying you write poorly just because you write erotica? Cause I've read a lot of great erotica that definitely employs good craft. Genre doesn't mean you can ignore craft. Erotica is a popular genre, if you write well and gives readers what they want, you'll sell well. Why bash erotica by implying that it cannot be well written?


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Annie B said:


> So you are saying you write poorly just because you write erotica? Cause I've read a lot of great erotica that definitely employs good craft. Genre doesn't mean you can ignore craft. Erotica is a popular genre, if you write well and gives readers what they want, you'll sell well. Why bash erotica by implying that it cannot be well written?


I'm not bashing erotica. I'm an okay author. Maybe even good enough to pick up a trade deal if I tried, but I'm not a great writer, and there's no reason that I should be more successful than almost all of the "masters of craft" if craft really mattered. I don't like to pick on specific authors, but it seems EL James is still open game, so I'll just say that if craft really mattered, she wouldn't have sold so many badly written books. There's a lot of things that go into selling well in all forms of entertainment and quality or "craft" is usually the least important.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

> Victorine had a thread on here a few years ago where authors who weren't selling as well as they had hoped could submit their cover blurb and look inside portion of their book and get feedback. I wish that had stayed active. It was invaluable IMO.


I continued this for a while, but people stopped submitting.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Briteka said:


> I'm not bashing erotica. I'm an okay author. Maybe even good enough to pick up a trade deal if I tried, but I'm not a great writer, and there's no reason that I should be more successful than almost all of the "masters of craft" if craft really mattered. I don't like to pick on specific authors, but it seems EL James is still open game, so I'll just say that if craft really mattered, she wouldn't have sold so many badly written books. There's a lot of things that go into selling well in all forms of entertainment and quality or "craft" is usually the least important.


Craft is more than line writing. EL James is better at it than people give her credit for. Story and characters are part of craft, and workmanlike, transparent prose that doesn't get in the way of the other story elements is often as good as brilliant prose in terms of keeping readers engaged.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Annie B said:


> Craft is more than line writing. EL James is better at it than people give her credit for. Story and characters are part of craft, and workmanlike, transparent prose that doesn't get in the way of the other story elements is often as good as brilliant prose in terms of keeping readers engaged.


This. When you get all the reviews that say, "An easy read?" That means the story flowed and kept them engaged. That they were sucked in and it was...easy to read.

"Good craft" can mean you don't even notice. A lot of it is story and characters, not just line writing.


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## Jessie Jasen (May 30, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> This. When you get all the reviews that say, "An easy read?" That means the story flowed and kept them engaged. That they were sucked in and it was...easy to read.
> 
> "Good craft" can mean you don't even notice. A lot of it is story and characters, not just line writing.


I agree. 50 Shades is far better than people give it credit for. It's not the genre I'm crazy about, but the voices of the characters in that book are unique. I remember reading Anna's rant, then lying down to have a nap and still hearing her voice in my head. Never happened to me before with a book. Only a superb writer can pull something like that off.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Joe Vasicek said:


> No, the OP came looking for consolation and commiseration, and Annie gave him criticism. It's like a gender-swapped version of this:


Umm..."Any advice from anyone who's been around the Kindle scene longer would be appreciated."

If you're not serious about selling and don't want to hear how you might sell better, SAY SO.

What the OP got was a bestselling author who used not to sell well coming on here and sharing her advice. And some other bestselling authors offering theirs as well. People assumed that the OP might want to hear why his book actually wasn't selling. Before Annie spoke up, NOBODY had said anything about the writing.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

It's like I've walked into some bizzaro world. All of these "good craft" elements people apparently see in in FSoG are actually bad craft. I think it's best I just leave this conversation because my opinion of what constitutes "good craft" seems to come from a totally different perspective.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Briteka said:


> It's like I've walked into some bizzaro world. All of these "good craft" elements people apparently see in in FSoG are actually bad craft. I think it's best I just leave this conversation because my opinion of what constitutes "good craft" seems to come from a totally different perspective.


Tsk tsk, Briteka. Bad craft is clearly the new good craft!


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Jana DeLeon said:


> I am one of the top selling authors on Amazon. My books are filled with short, declarative sentences featuring the repetitive vocabulary of a 5th grader (which is the general rule of what level mass market fiction should be written to).


Perfect! Looks like I'm on the right track. LOL!


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Umm..."Any advice from anyone who's been around the Kindle scene longer would be appreciated."


Okay, I must have missed that when I skimmed the OP. Because clearly from the tone, he wasn't looking for "rip my book to shreds," he was looking for "give me a shoulder to cry on."


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Briteka said:


> If craft mattered, I wouldn't have a single pen name outselling all of the last ten Nobel Prize winners in literature on Amazon. If craft mattered, I wouldn't have over 100 erotica and erotic romance books with a higher rating than last year's Pulitzer winner.


I think you're misunderstanding "craft," Briteka. It doesn't mean "producing literary fiction." It means "controlling your writing to produce exactly what you need to produce, given the circumstances." A business or technical writer with strong craft will produce something entirely different from a literary fiction writer or poet with good craft. Yes, genre fiction tends to be designed for a lower reading level (gradewise); it's intended for fast, easy reading. Obviously, there's plenty of variety, but in general the prose should be transparent, delivering the story without itself being noticed. If that's what you're producing when you write erotica, then your craft is strong at the sentence level, not weak, and that strength probably accounts for part of your success. If some of those Nobel winners you mention tried to write erotica, their craft within that genre would probably be far weaker than yours. (Though who knows ... maybe some of them moonlight in more lucrative genres.  )


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Briteka said:


> It's like I've walked into some bizzaro world. All of these "good craft" elements people apparently see in in FSoG are actually bad craft. I think it's best I just leave this conversation because my opinion of what constitutes "good craft" seems to come from a totally different perspective.


Clearly. Personally, I'd take the evidence of the fourth book in the series selling over a million copies in a few days. Marketing and hype might sell a first book, but craft and story will sell the rest. In that regard, the 50 Shades series has more than proven itself. But hey, if you can't see why and how it was so effective at capturing a huge audience, well, not my problem. 

The OP asked for advice. I gave my opinion. Geez.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

I've edited a post and removed some responses to the now edited post that referred to the edited bit.

Let's try to move on without gender stereotyping.  And without accusing fellow members of trying to make members who don't sell well feel bad.  I've seen no evidence of that in this thread.

If you haven't done this^, I'm not talking to you.  Most posts in this thread have been helpful, even when blunt (and Stefan did ask for help).

Keep calm and carry on.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## Lady Q (Jun 27, 2015)

While this discussion has been fascinating, it occurs to me that the OP hasn't posted since page 1. Just feels like their thread has been hijacked. Come back, OP, and let us know how you're doing.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Rosalind James said:


> This. When you get all the reviews that say, "An easy read?" That means the story flowed and kept them engaged. That they were sucked in and it was...easy to read.
> 
> "Good craft" can mean you don't even notice. A lot of it is story and characters, not just line writing.


^this^ 
Easy to read often equates to difficult to write


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## ♨ (Jan 9, 2012)

This board needs a sticky post that explains one of two things . . .

A) Do not ask for advice if you don't want advice.

OR

B) When someone asks for advice, don't give them advice because they don't actually want advice.

Pick one then make it sticky and bold.


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## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> Umm..."Any advice from anyone who's been around the Kindle scene longer would be appreciated."
> 
> If you're not serious about selling and don't want to hear how you might sell better, SAY SO.
> 
> What the OP got was a bestselling author who used not to sell well coming on here and sharing her advice. And some other bestselling authors offering theirs as well. People assumed that the OP might want to hear why his book actually wasn't selling. Before Annie spoke up, NOBODY had said anything about the writing.


The OP also said this: I've been *extremely depressed lately*, and I thought I'd come here to get some advice or *cheering up*.

Annie's advice was good*. It's just that when someone says they're depressed, and goes on to say they're upset because they're not getting support from their family and loved ones...it might have been a little more helpful to deliver the criticism in a gentler fashion. If the tone had been different, most people probably wouldn't have batted an eye.

*It was helpful to me, personally, but this is not my thread.


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

A lot of these suggestions will cost you big books such as getting professional made book covers, expensive advertising, etc.  So go ahead and follow what they suggested since you will be broke then and you will be depressed about your financial downfall instead of depressed about low sales.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Aw, Stefan, my heart goes out to you. This is a tough business, let me tell you. 

I have to agree with everyone who says to tighten up the blurb and fix the cover. The mock-up that Sela did was AMAZING! She can do my covers anytime. Well, maybe not, just because I lurv my cover designer, but she does a great job. I would almost recommend you buy that stock image that she used and go with her mock-up as your cover. 

Also, I think that this cannot be stressed enough - one book is typically a VERY hard sell. I started out by publishing two books - books one and two of my original series. So, I had something to work with, and I still had problems getting traction. I had an initial free run that went pretty well, and resulted in some good, solid sales for Book 2, but that didn't last, and, even though Book One was only .99, my sales on both books ground to a screeching halt. Believe me, I was more than discouraged. I cried a lot. 

What turned it around was putting Book One permafree and lining up ads. Getting a BB on Book One got me to where I quit my day job. So, once you get a strategy in place and implement it, you might take off. But selling books without a funnel is tough. 

Then, KU came along, and my permafrees lost much of their value. So, now I'm pivoting and trying to keep my head above water again. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this business is tough, and it never, ever gets easier. You always have to be looking at what you're doing, and then do something else. And something else again. Changing your cover, your blurb, your key words, your promotions...those are all things that most of us do all the time to keep things fresh. 

Don't lose hope, though. We've all been there. Annie B. has given her opinion, and it's valid FOR HER. She's not digging your writing, but that's just one person. I personally can't stand Stephen King. He's far too wordy for me, as I like a tighter prose that zips along. Obviously, I'm in the distinct minority. In my own personal criticisms, AKA reviews, I get one reader who says that my books are slow, and then other readers who say that my books are a fast and easy read. Who's right? They both are, I guess. Eye of the beholder and all of that. 

 Good luck, and don't give up!


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## Lady Q (Jun 27, 2015)

L C Storm said:


> A lot of these suggestions will cost you big books such as getting professional made book covers, expensive advertising, etc. So go ahead and follow what they suggested since you will be broke then and you will be depressed about your financial downfall instead of depressed about low sales.


Uh, I disagree. Most of the suggestions have been inexpensive. Changing the blurb requires nothing but time. OP can get premade covers that say epic fantasy cheaply, or license stock photos and create a genre-appropriate one himself. Yes, he may have to pay to be part of a crit group, but improving craft and building relationships with other writers is an investment in his writing _career_, not just throwing money at one book.


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## Fill in the Blank Author (Jul 12, 2015)

L C Storm said:


> A lot of these suggestions will cost you big books such as getting professional made book covers, expensive advertising, etc. So go ahead and follow what they suggested since you will be broke then and you will be depressed about your financial downfall instead of depressed about low sales.


Cover's aren't necessarily expensive. AnnChristy mentioned (in this thread) goonwrite.com where you can get good covers for $45 or less.

Others mentioned workshops and crit groups that are free or have free intro periods. OP will benefit greatly from basic critique.

You can check out craft books from a local library.

Lots of helpful podcasts out there with info on every aspect of writing and publishing. All free.

Learning to write a good blurb costs nothing but time. People in this thread mentioned sites you can visit for help in this area, plus you can and should study bestselling titles in your genre.

There's plenty of room for significant upgrade without breaking the bank.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

*Hugs* 

and another *hug*.


This is a tough business, and even harder without several books in the same genre. What Annie Jacoby said. Even if you have great sales for a while, one Amazon change can hurt your visibilty, sales, and income overnight. 

Some of the top sales people have already responded to what you can do do to possibly perk up sales. Also, take heart that several who had non existent sales with only one or two books, by a year later, were making much better sales.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> This. When you get all the reviews that say, "An easy read?" That means the story flowed and kept them engaged. That they were sucked in and it was...easy to read.
> 
> "Good craft" can mean you don't even notice. A lot of it is story and characters, not just line writing.


I agree. I've said it before I'm no FSOG fan but as an author I can see why FSOG is so successful.

FSOG is an easy read and it is entertaining. I've seen a couple authors say this, 'we are in the entertainment business'. If you can entertain readers you can make a living out of writing.



L C Storm said:


> A lot of these suggestions will cost you big books such as getting professional made book covers, expensive advertising, etc. So go ahead and follow what they suggested since you will be broke then and you will be depressed about your financial downfall instead of depressed about low sales.


You don't have to spend big bucks on book covers, some cover artists are very affordable and you can buy a cover from fiverr. There are inexpensive and free promo sites too.

Some of the advice in this thread has been good - work on cover and blurb, write the next book. No one said spend this much money. The OP can look at his budget and decide how much he wants to spend. Not everyone is on a tight budget.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Most books, good or bad, don't sell. If you go into publishing with that mind set, everything better than that will seem like gravy! 

All you can control is your writing, editing, covers and blurb. But you CAN control those. Make them the best they can be and you might be very surprised at the response. 

The truth is that none of us are probably either as good as we hope or as bad as we fear - but no matter where each one of us starts, we can all progress and get better. And the better you are, the better your chances are of achieving some level of success. And then you will just want more 

Annie gave you good advice. Tough, yes, but good. Others have given good advice as well in varying tones. Here's my advice. In my long and varied career, I've been an actor, singer, artist, photographer, and now writer. In any creative career, there is absolutely no guarantee of success - no matter how good you are - and no explanation for why some who seem less talented sometimes hit it big. If you don't love doing what you're doing, then stop. Otherwise, it will just become an exercise in frustration.

However, if you love doing what you're doing, then love it enough to put away your very justifiable emotions, listen and learn. Hey, I hate being criticized. Usually I don't agree at first and try to deny it, but eventually it percolates and I can see it.

Let the thread percolate......


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I get the OP is depressed because of lack of family support. 
My advice would be it is family and you know how your family is, so don't let them get you down.

Now to all the advice given: in two years I have learned one major thing.

*THIS IS A BUSINESS. * Treat it as such. If you don't want to invest the time and effort and yes sometimes money to put the best product you can out there, why should a reader invest in you?

I know a couple that have succeeded on no outsiders but they are rare. 
If you are writing because you heard on the internet is a quick way to make a buck, remember the internet is a great trickster. Yes, you will probably make A buck but that will be about it.
Writing is not easy career.
Never has been, never will be.
I don't care if you have a 5th grade education or are a college professor, get a second set of eyes on your work.
If you are writing in a secondary language, please have a native speaker look at it before you publish. 
If you do not have a good grasp of syntax and grammar rules, please contact your local college. They have programs than can help you. Most are free or very low cost.
Writing perfectly according to a manual is not necessary, but do know the basics.

By the same token, if you are writing in any genre, don't try to be completely different out of the box. It won't work.

I have seen Cormac McCarthy mentioned a couple of times. I think he is a fan of em-dashes as dialog tags. He can get away with it. Now, if you don't write in his genre and attract the same readers, em-dashes can just look totally out of place.

Also if one is writing about real places, check a map. Also check the key on the map if you don't know which ones are the main roads. Note: second set of eyes would help here too.

Anyway,
Good luck.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Heather Hamilton-Senter said:


> *Most books, good or bad, don't sell. If you go into publishing with that mind set, everything better than that will seem like gravy! *
> 
> All you can control is your writing, editing, covers and blurb. But you CAN control those. Make them the best they can be and you might be very surprised at the response.
> 
> ...


I really dislike that mindset, it is defeatist. I did not go into a job interview thinking i'm not going to get this job or go and take an exam and think i'm not going to pass this.

I see nothing wrong with going into this and believing that i can write something that a few people want to buy and read. If I study the bestselling authors and books in my genre, get advice from authors who are selling on places like kboards, maybe attend a couple writing workshops and improve my writing. Then put the best package together (a good story, edited, good cover) I can sell some books and make some kind of living from this.

Not everyone needs to be a top 100 bestseller. I spoke to an author who just wanted to make some extra cash to top up her income, she loves her day job. She is earning a really good income from writing, she gets average reviews and she feels a real sense of achievement and self pride.

A person feeling depressed about their lack of success needs to know things can get better with some work, self-belief and persistence.

What I see a lot of new authors doing is jumping into this without a plan and without doing a little research. Don't rush things. Research what is selling in your genre, look at the blurb, the cover, buy a few of these books and read them. Take notes. 
Plan your series, write book 1 and 2 before you publish if you can write fast, then plan your launch.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

My advice to anyone who wants to make a living at writing is to write romance (including niches, subgenres). 

Anything other than romance means that you're stacking the dice against you. The dream of writing what you want to read and having other people enjoy that experience is not for everyone, especially not for those who need the money. You go out there and find out what people want to read first, then write that. 

More people read romance (a lot more) = writing romance means a greater chance of success (a lot more).


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## dianasg (Jan 8, 2010)

I agree romance is a good place to make money. However -- Romance is the biggest genre with the most readers, but it also attracts the most authors and the most books. Sure, romance can be lucrative, but when everybody wants a piece of that pie it becomes just as hard, if not harder, to be discovered by readers. Particularly when you're brand new to the genre -- to its conventions and to the romance community. Just look at the contemporary romance top 100 and the overall rank you have to be just to crack that list. Look at how quickly the number of titles in that category increases. Ouch!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

ShaneJeffery said:


> My advice to anyone who wants to make a living at writing is to write romance (including niches, subgenres).
> 
> Anything other than romance means that you're stacking the dice against you. The dream of writing what you want to read and having other people enjoy that experience is not for everyone, especially not for those who need the money. You go out there and find out what people want to read first, then write that.
> 
> More people read romance (a lot more) = writing romance means a greater chance of success (a lot more).


I don't agree, sorry. Romance is a popular genre, but if you don't understand it and write it very well, you are going to be putting books out into a very crowded space.

There are lots of popular genres. Fantasy, space opera and mil SF, thrillers, mysteries... and great livings to be had in all of them.

Personally, I recommend making a list of everything you love to read about. Then look at that list and figure out which genre and kind of story fits as many things on that list as possible, and write that (if you aren't sure, read more!).


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Annie B said:


> I don't agree, sorry. Romance is a popular genre, but if you don't understand it and write it very well, you are going to be putting books out into a very crowded space.
> 
> There are lots of popular genres. Fantasy, space opera and mil SF, thrillers, mysteries... and great livings to be had in all of them.
> 
> Personally, I recommend making a list of everything you love to read about. Then look at that list and figure out which genre and kind of story fits as many things on that list as possible, and write that (if you aren't sure, read more!).


Annie, what don't you agree with?

Who said anything about understanding romance or writing it well? You can mess those up both and still sell while you're in class for understanding and writing well.

Are you saying that Fantasy and mysteries / thrillers are on equal playing terms for indies as Romance? If you're saying that, then let's discuss that.

What I'm saying is that if Romance is by far your best chance at selling (I believe it unequivocally is) and then you write something that isn't romance and it doesn't sell, my advice - write romance! Then come back and we'll help you fix your romance.

Of course, if one can demonstrate that what they're writing is hot potaoes - the gold that people want to read right now (romance or no romance) and it's not working, then it's definitely worth taking a look at why it isn't working.

But if they haven't given themselves the best chance at selling, and if their priorities are more about servicing themselves in what they enjoy to write vs what people want to read then my advice is to point them in the opposite direction.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I think if you don't know the romance genre well and understand its tropes and how to deliver what readers want in it... you shouldn't write romance.   It's no more an easy road to success than any other popular genre.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Romance is a hugely crowded genre for an author to try to join, particularly contemporary romance. Basically, divide the bestsellers by half, and that's romance. And the majority of that is contemporary. Which means that, to chart in the top 100 in contemporary romance, you have to be below 200 in the store. Visibility is tough in romance; tougher than in any other genre, because it's so darned big. And the top authors are prolific. They will be taking a lot of those top spots. KU1 muddied the waters further, as many books that were actually short erotica with the barest concession to romance took the top spots in the smaller romance subgenres as well as in contemporary romance. That part will probably start getting sorted out with KU2. 

And, yes, you have to understand it and write it well to do well. Show me somebody in the top 100 in romance who doesn't understand the genre and isn't writing to reader expectations. 

If you don't understand romance, if you haven't read it, if you don't enjoy it, you're much better off IMHO writing a genre you DO understand and enjoy, that you've read extensively in. I know many authors making very good money indeed in the other large genres. It's much easier to carve out a niche for yourself, particularly if you have a distinctive voice and/or hook.


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## Marseille France or Bust (Sep 25, 2012)

As the Amazon reviewer said, "Change The Cover. It doesn't do the book any justice." I agree. That was my first thought.



Stefan Homberger said:


> I've been extremely depressed lately, and I thought I'd come here to get some advice or cheering up. I published my first book on Amazon in February and sales have been non-existent. The sequel is going up in August along with a new stand-alone novel and the start of an episodic series. I've been promoting everywhere I can think of- even going so far as to create a trailer for the book and posting on my Youtube channel (starting to build a small following there)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I would submit that people who think writing romance is "easy money" are probably dismissive of romance, and don't "get" why it's popular (referencing another thread). You don't just write They Meet, They Bang, Big Misunderstanding, Happy Ending. Well, a lot of people DO, perhaps, but they're down the list somewhere in those 1-million-plus ebooks in the romance category.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Annie B said:


> I think if you don't know the romance genre well and understand its tropes and how to deliver what readers want in it... you shouldn't write romance.  It's no more an easy road to success than any other popular genre.


I hate romance. I'm an anti romance sort of fellow. I'm into truth, darkness, horror, anything that makes you think. Not sells you a wet dream fairytale.

As a person, I'm the opposite of a romance writer. A lot of dis encouragement was launched at me in the beginning, as you are doing now. But I already tried selling the works of my heart and not only did they not sell, they didn't sell at ALL.

I made 100 dollars in my first year of writing what I wanted.

I made four times that in my first 8 weeks of writing romance.

That was just over a year ago. Since then things have gotten a lot better.

So ... easy roads? This was the easiest road. Writing what I wanted for another year would not have brought me any closer to success.

If I can write romance, then anyone can. They can, they just don't want to. Unless of course they're fed up with writing for free. They have to start somewhere.

But people who write romance, or don't write romance, seem to not want to hear that, if they haven't been through it themselves.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Surely there have always been writers who possess the ability to do a good job writing something they dislike. If someone were to say, "I hate writing ad copy, but I'm good at it, and it's lucrative, so I keep doing it," we wouldn't think it was weird, right? I doubt fiction is exempt from that kind of thing. Why would it be?

That said, I suspect a lot of us would have trouble producing good work in a genre we dislike. I think it's probably a special skill or attaches to a particular personality type. I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.


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## Valerie Thorne (Jul 3, 2015)

Your cover is awful - to put it bluntly. It does not show what the book is about, and title color is blending into cover color on the left. Hire a professional book designer, one who will give you a stunning cover that stands out, but is similar to others in the genre.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> Surely there have always been writers who possess the ability to do a good job writing something they dislike. If someone were to say, "I hate writing ad copy, but I'm good at it, and it's lucrative, so I keep doing it," we wouldn't think it was weird, right? I doubt fiction is exempt from that kind of thing. Why would it be?
> 
> That said, I suspect a lot of us would have trouble producing good work in a genre we dislike. I think it's probably a special skill or attaches to a particular personality type. I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it.


Yes, but you have to understand the genre. You have to "get it." If Shane is writing romance that sells, he clearly understands the genre well enough to give readers what they want.

And, yes, I'm sure you can write something you dislike. My question would be: why? I remember now when Shane was posting how much he disliked & was contemptuous of the romance that was selling for him. I suggested he write romantic suspense instead, or paranormal--something where he could be edgy and could have villains and dark stuff. I don't think he did that. But, yeah. There are other genres (thrillers, mystery) where you can definitely be darker than romance. However, all of them do require a version of a happy ending. I think that's the real rub. Genre readers are reading genre for escape, and MOST of them want a book where things work out. The killer is caught, the bad guys are killed, the couple falls in love--whatever a "happy ending" is for the genre. Those are the genres that sell well: the ones with satisfying endings. You know--unlike real life.


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## WDR (Jan 8, 2014)

Don't lose hope, Stefan. I struggle with this myself as well. Sales on my first book really suck. It isn't that the book is no good (thanks to many strangers who have contacted me about it), it's simply that it hasn't really been noticed yet. Also, people don't want to invest in a series of books until most of the books are available. I'd hate to say it, but it can take years before an audience finds you.

I had my hopes and dreams as I prepared my first book. I sent it out to select friends and colleagues, those I knew would be honest with me, and their responses came back all positive. Once the final edits were completed, I put the book out there and&#8230; Nothing. Complete flop. Didn't even approach my anticipated projections. I sold in two years what I hoped to sell in the first week or two. I bet the farm on this, and lost the farm. C'est la vie.

Write because you want/love to tell the story. Write it because you are enjoying creating the story instead of reading it; a lot of the time I enjoy writing more than I enjoy reading. Write it for yourself, first, then go back and rewrite it for others next.

When you are done writing, set aside the manuscript. Don't touch it for a couple of weeks. Read a couple of your favorite books in the same genre that your story falls under. Then go back and read your manuscript as though you were reading a book. After reading some well-written and well-edited books, every mistake and flub you wrote will stand out like a sore thumb. Did you cringe? Change it. Did it not make sense? Change it. Did the flow of the story take a tangent? Cut it out.

That was the author's edit. Once you are done with that, send it out to a real editor. Work together to refine your story into something sellable. Then send it out to proofreaders with instructions to look for mistakes you may have missed. Otherwise, they'll respond with, "It was nice," instead of, "The third paragraph in Chapter 3 didn't make sense to me."

Many people above gave you excellent advice; I think Sela gave the best to consider. Some offered criticism. It's hard, really hard, when a peer hits you with that. But absolutely don't take it personally. They offered it because they saw something that bugged them and they wanted to help you reach the level of success you are trying to attain. I think the general opinion was your story was good. Consider the fact that _To Kill a Mockingbird_ was a complete rewrite from the original manuscript, _Go Set a Watchman_. Look what that did for Harper Lee.

First off, change your cover and change your blurb.

Second, read your favorite book. Then read your own. Does it work? Or do you see what others criticized about it.

Third, and most important, write. Write the next story. Try and make improvements based on what you learned. And enjoy writing the story. If your family isn't supportive, then tell them this is your hobby. You might not be building a model plane or painting a picture, but this is your hobby and you aren't to be disturbed while you are working on it. Maybe they'll take you a little more seriously when you pull up someday in the new car you just bought with your earnings.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

vrabinec said:


> I routinely set my expectations what I'd consider "artificially" low, and that's not just in the case of book sales. I understand it's a defense mechanism, but I do it anyway. I can't stand the disappointment of having high expectations dashed. It's happened a couple of times, and it hurt. And it would hurt a thousand fold if I did it with the release of my WIP. Knowing what I know of the market, and seeing comparable books, if I was being objective, I'd say the thing will sell 500 books over the life of it. But, to me, that seems like a big number. It feels optimistic, so I scale it back. Maybe 50 is a better number as far as expectations go. This isn't wishes we're talking about, and it's not akin to a job interview. A job interview is easy. I KNOW I'm qualified when I go in for an interview. It's impossible to tell whether you're qualified to be a writer as a first time author. EVERYBODY who has published a book, has had someone tell them that their writing is good. Maybe it's gutless on some level, but the more I tell myself to expect 50 sales, the less pain there will be if I don't reach 500.


A job interview is not easy for everyone. Try working in the recruitment industry and you'll see how hard it is for some people to attend interviews (some people are so anxious and have such low esteem they've already convinced themselves they're not going to get the job), I've seen people panicking, sweating profusely, having dry mouth, babbling, failing tests that they would normally pass easily, walking out in the middle of interviews and cancelling the interview at the very last minute. Some people tell me that they are not going to get the job and they don't get the job.

I understand that some people set their expectations low but I would never tell a new author to set their expectations low. I'd encourage them to study and research the market, study their genre and write lots of good entertaining books with good covers, good editing and promote their work. Take advice from authors who are selling. 
I think authors need to have a reasonable level of self-esteem and confidence because you are going to face criticism from all angles (family, friends, bloggers, fellow authors, book critics and readers).


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> Yes, but you have to understand the genre. You have to "get it." If Shane is writing romance that sells, he clearly understands the genre well enough to give readers what they want.
> 
> And, yes, I'm sure you can write something you dislike. My question would be: why? I remember now when Shane was posting how much he disliked & was contemptuous of the romance that was selling for him. I suggested he write romantic suspense instead, or paranormal--something where he could be edgy and could have villains and dark stuff. I don't think he did that. But, yeah. There are other genres (thrillers, mystery) where you can definitely be darker than romance. However, all of them do require a version of a happy ending. I think that's the real rub. Genre readers are reading genre for escape, and MOST of them want a book where things work out. The killer is caught, the bad guys are killed, the couple falls in love--whatever a "happy ending" is for the genre. Those are the genres that sell well: the ones with satisfying endings. You know--unlike real life.


I don't believe in special skills or personality types that Becca refers to. That's a lot of hooey to scare away people from realizing their potential.

I did actually get into darker sections of romance, including suspense and paranormal. I was sort of always there with the romance writing I think ... but lately a little more so.

Doesn't matter. Dark, paranormal suspenseful romance isn't horror. It isn't your 500 page sci-fi epic. I had to change a lot in order to get there.

If your question is why, the answer is, no one cared about the stuff I wrote for myself, but they did care about the stuff I wrote for them. I am a weird person. I have weird, non commercial tastes. I had to overcome them in order to be successful.

No I didn't make 17 grand the first month I started writing romance, I made 60 bucks. The month prior I made maybe seven bucks from the horror.

I didn't know what I was doing. The first romance book I ever read was Viola's Claimed by the Alphas. And what I wrote was nothing like that. I had to get smashed by the readers a hundred and five times before I could write something that was merely 'okay' and not 'terrible'. I still made money all that while. But I mean, come on, we're talking one year. I guess though KU1 had a lot to do with my success. I'm going to have to write like Yoda to make a living at this now.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

vrabinec said:


> Rosalind James said:
> 
> 
> > And, yes, I'm sure you can write something you dislike. My question would be: why?
> ...


Yeah, that's the main reason I couldn't do it. I have trouble enough making myself write the stuff I enjoy. If I didn't like the genre, I'd not be able to make myself do the necessary reading to understand it, and I'd never want to sit down to write.

But as to _why? _the answer seems clear to me: because you can and you prefer that work to other jobs you might be capable of holding down.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> Yep, big time. It's hard enough writing something I like.
> 
> Yeah, that's the main reason I couldn't do it. I have trouble enough making myself write the stuff I enjoy. If I didn't like the genre, I'd not be able to make myself do the necessary reading to understand it, and I'd never want to sit down to write.
> 
> But as to _why? _the answer seems clear to me: because you can and you prefer that work to other jobs you might be capable of holding down.


I guess I'd always choose, in that case, the commercial genre (note: which means it has to end well!) closest to my own tastes.

But people are different. So I apologize for my statement.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> I guess I'd always choose, in that case, the commercial genre (note: which means it has to end well!) closest to my own tastes.
> 
> But people are different. So I apologize for my statement.


I see no cause for apologies!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Becca Mills said:


> I see no cause for apologies!


Asking "why." If people want to do things, it's up to them.


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## Jana DeLeon (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, this thread is now done. "Romance is easy" and "Erotica is poorly written" have trotted out. I suppose nothing else needs to be said.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Lady Q said:


> While this discussion has been fascinating, it occurs to me that the OP hasn't posted since page 1. Just feels like their thread has been hijacked. Come back, OP, and let us know how you're doing.


Good point, hope the OP comes back and updates us. Hope some of the advice helps him.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

vrabinec said:


> I'm not sure setting high expectations and an ability to weather criticism go hand in hand. Some of the most thin-skinned people I've known had the biggest ego's. I think weathering criticism is more tied to determination. That, I've got plenty of. I won't quit even if I don't sell 50. But if I don't sell 50, then I'll REALLY set my expectations low for the next thing I publish.


I don't have a reasonable level of self-esteem and confidence. I'm terrified every time I even send a book to beta readers. I'm just too stubborn to quit. I feel crushed, then take the advice on board and examine it once I've gotten over the "Oh nooooes my work is no goooood" phase.

I think this trait is actually pretty common amongst good-selling authors. You really have to be able to see that your work isn't practically perfect in every way. And sensitivity to criticism maybe goes along with the kind of sensitivity that lets you understand how people feel and elicit emotion in readers.

Or else it's just A Thing that some people have and some don't. From what I've seen on these boards and in quieter conversation with top sellers, self-confidence runs the gamut.

Also, as far as expectations? I NEVER know. I've written things where I thought, "HA! Everybody who likes my stuff will love it!", and...nope. And I just published something that I was SURE many of my longtime readers would hate. Go figure, it's had the most positive early reception of anything I've put out. So I too keep my expectations low, chew my fingernails, and just hope for the best. And keep working, because if I don't keep improving, I'm not going to keep selling. Of that, I'm pretty sure.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> Or else it's just A Thing that some people have and some don't. From what I've seen on these boards and in quieter conversation with top sellers, self-confidence runs the gamut.


That's got to be right. Brains and psyches aren't jigsaw puzzles. They can be put together in so many different ways.


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## Douglas Milewski (Jul 4, 2014)

I could write to something more commercial, but aside from money, why? (I understand writing for money. No dings to anyone. In fact, I salute you.) The freedom of being indie is going where you want, of daring. The price of going there is low payback unless you poke a sleeping bear. And nobody knows where or when that sleeping bear will get poked. 

As for switching genres, that's a huge learning curve for me. I'm just not interested in doing that. So yeah, that puts me on the high-risk, high-frustration highway. (My choice. I've been warned.)  I could switch genres, but that just puts me on a different high-risk, high-frustration highway. (I pick badly. Really, I do.) Eventually, I will switch subgenres, because I'll get bored and want to scratch a different itch.


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## SusleeAuthors (Mar 21, 2014)

Beautiful post, Sela. (The one with the cover).
The spirit in which you wrote it is at least as beautiful as the suggestions you made. Thank you.

Perhaps I have something to contribute, too.
Because something interesting is happening today. (To me).

Two years ago and untroubled by any study of the genre, I wrote a science-fiction military story that I really really liked. I sold a handful and then the book died a quiet death. When a reviewer came along and called the writing "egregious," I yanked it, reworked it, created more content and posted it again with a nicer cover and a better blurb.
And still no cigar.

We left the genre and went and wrote romance.
Romance readers are much more forgiving, it seems, because that series, concluded in January, still pays the mortgage every month.

Armed with a better understanding of the genre—its vital tropes, et al—I went back to sci-fi and tried my hand again at a story with the same main character as the first one—only set a couple hundred years in the future.
The book came out today. 
Put it in Select to check out the new KU, (even though only about forty percent of our current revenue comes from Amazon), and found that people in the US and almost as many in the UK, even in Germany and Mexico—that's a first—bought or KUed the book. It's currently in the top 90 of a science-fiction bestseller list in the US. (At the 90 spot).
The book is 490 Kindle-specific pages, 489 of which were read by somebody in Mehico. Could it be that somebody read the entire book already? That would mean it wasn't completely boring.
In the US, somebody even bought the prelude, (the book that didn't sell, but tells important things about the main character that the new book doesn't convey).
I'm a bit buoyed.
What I'm trying to say: the new book is doing better than the first one in the same vein.

My suggestion to the OP is: study your genre, learn the tropes and write another one. Success really is in giving people what they want—without compromising your values, of course.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Rosalind James said:


> I don't have a reasonable level of self-esteem and confidence. I'm terrified every time I even send a book to beta readers. I'm just too stubborn to quit. I feel crushed, then take the advice on board and examine it once I've gotten over the "Oh nooooes my work is no goooood" phase.
> 
> I think this trait is actually pretty common amongst good-selling authors. You really have to be able to see that your work isn't practically perfect in every way. And sensitivity to criticism maybe goes along with the kind of sensitivity that lets you understand how people feel and elicit emotion in readers.
> 
> ...


Each author is different and some have low Self-confidence and self-esteem and some are very confident. Some authors feel physically sick when they release a new book. I said *I think* authors need a reasonable level of self-confidence but I think self-belief is more important. That's just my personal opinion.
I'm advising my friend right now who's writing and I have advised her to believe in herself and her work, no one else is going to believe in her work or love her work as much as she is. Not even her mum.

I look at authors like EL James and I see a woman who has enough confidence and self-belief to handle all the criticism that has come her way. She wrote what she wanted to write, she seems to enjoy writing and she seems to be enjoying her career.

I think I'm a decent storyteller. I believe in myself enough and I have enough self-confidence that I think there are a few people out there who are also going to enjoy my stories. My goal was to make a living out of writing and I focused on that from day one.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> Those are the genres that sell well: the ones with satisfying endings. You know--unlike real life.


I'd like to send this in a time capsule to myself back in 2009. It would help set reasonable expectations for how my first novel, released in 2010, would fare -- or convince me to change the ending. It was written as a stand-alone but I finally decided to write & release (this year) more to the story considering how my ending was getting bashed. Pointless so far, more so than the first, but I figured it was worth a try. Luckily I have other works in progress that help take my mind off it.

I've seriously thought about trying my hand, under a pen name, at writing romance or other genres that seem to pay well, since my existing books aren't paying the bills (to put it mildly). I think the result would just be garbage, though, so that's never reached the point of actually starting a new work. I do have a vague idea for a military sci-fi erotica series but, again, I suspect the quality would be too low to generate sales worth the time and effort.



mica said:


> A job interview is not easy for everyone. Try working in the recruitment industry and you'll see how hard it is for some people to attend interviews (some people are so anxious and have such low esteem they've already convinced themselves they're not going to get the job), I've seen people panicking, sweating profusely, having dry mouth, babbling, failing tests, walking out in the middle of interviews and cancelling the interview at the very last minute.


Oh... you've interviewed me?  Putting my written works out there to be shredded (or, yes, occasionally lauded) is a whole lot easier for me than selling myself for a job, even if I'm confident in my qualifications. I had a job literally made for me and I barely got it; my manager told me afterward how badly I'd done and how she'd had to work to get me hired into it.

I do hope the OP comes back and gives a status update eventually, perhaps with a new cover to run by folks here before replacing the old one.


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## mica (Jun 19, 2015)

Crenel said:


> I'd like to send this in a time capsule to myself back in 2009. It would help set reasonable expectations for how my first novel, released in 2010, would fare -- or convince me to change the ending. It was written as a stand-alone but I finally decided to write & release (this year) more to the story considering how my ending was getting bashed. Pointless so far, more so than the first, but I figured it was worth a try. Luckily I have other works in progress that help take my mind off it.
> 
> I've seriously thought about trying my hand, under a pen name, at writing romance or other genres that seem to pay well, since my existing books aren't paying the bills (to put it mildly). I think the result would just be garbage, though, so that's never reached the point of actually starting a new work. I do have a vague idea for a military sci-fi erotica series but, again, I suspect the quality would be too low to generate sales worth the time and effort.
> 
> ...


Right and some people find performing a song in front of hundreds of people easier than going to an interview, they can have all the qualifications and skills for the job but they find it hard to sit in front of one person or a small group of people to sell themselves for a job.

The thing I like about writing books is you can use a pen name and no one has to know you've written a book.


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## TheGapBetweenMerlons (Jun 2, 2011)

mica said:


> Right and some people find performing a song in front of hundreds of people easier than going to an interview, they can have all the qualifications and skills for the job but they find it hard to sit in front of one person or a small group of people to sell themselves for a job.


Oh yeah, I love being on stage -- acting, public speaking, whatever. It's fun... quite unlike interviews.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

HMeloche said:


> ...the cover doesn't match the blurb for me. It wouldn't, for instance, make me stop and click on it if it popped up in my fantasy browsing "other readers also bought" list. I'd suggest something with more focus than just parchment paper texture and the title - even if you make up a mark or symbol of some sort for the dead god and that's on there, that would be more eye catching.


This. You need a better cover. Look at the covers on the bestsellers in your category and get something similar.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/157062011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_5_last

I skimmed the first page of your book and saw no glaring errors, so that's good. But think about breaking up your really long paragraphs. Short paragraphs are in right now, with readers. Also consider using more dialogue and less exposition. I saw 70% exposition and 30% dialogue. Reverse that.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

I don't think the cover, in and of itself, is terrible. The problem is that only a handful of people - the Stephen Kings and James Pattersons of the world - are going to be able to sell with a cover like that, because at their level the _name_ is what readers are interested in. The author's brand is so powerful that it's able to overcome a ho-hum cover (ie, there's a presumption that the book is going to be a great read, so the cover is almost immaterial).

Unfortunately, most of us are never going to attain that level of success. Ergo, we have to bait the hook with an attractive lure, which is your cover and blurb. With respect to those, I can only echo what others have said in that they both need some work.

That said, I think you need to cherry pick when it comes to the advice you're getting. There's more than one way to attain success (however you define it) as a writer, and I would encourage you to choose the options that make the most sense to you. After all, there's not just one yellow brick road to Oz; there's a million of them.

Also, don't get discouraged. I think Russell Blake said something like it wasn't until his seventh release that he earned $300 in a month, but he was continually writing - focusing on the next book as though each one was a bestseller. (And he's at the top of the food chain now.) Truth be told, few of us are going to be overnight success stories; most of us are going to have to pay our dues, so in that you are not alone. However, it's certainly possible that, over time, you can achieve the level of success you desire, but it's not likely to be handed to you. It's going to take dedication and a lot of hard work, but it's far from a pipe dream.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

Stefan, if you're still reading, you should take heart--your book's not bad. It's just not finished yet. I agree with a lot of what Annie said. The writing needs some improvement before you worry about covers or blurbs. But that's not a bad thing. There's nothing in that makes me think you can't do this.

You've done what countless new and learning writers have done through the ages. Your first chapter is heavily descriptive and, I'm sorry to say--hang in there--wholly unnecessary. If you had any idea how often this happens, especially in first, second, third books, I think you would feel less depressed. It's _super_ common. You've got a chapter of lovingly detailed description and absolutely no conflict whatsoever, and you gotta have conflict.

Your story seems to start when he tries to to help the woman and gives chase to the assailants, not in the lead-up to arriving in the city. If you'll try to look at it with an objective eye, I think you'll see that. Conflict is key--a guy heading for a town, musing and talking to his dog isn't that interesting to anybody but the writer. I wanted to know why his sword was broken (I was scanning then, and if I missed it, sorry), so the opportune time to plug that info in is when he has to protect the woman and, oops, no sword. I hope the reason has something to do with the story in some way.

The other point I would make that I think you should focus on while you're whittling away the parts with no conflict is the POV. All the story is told through the POV of your main character, and he talks like an 18th century British artistocrat, if the descriptions are to be believed. Would he reach for that broken sword and think, "Drat, my blade has been left at the smithy's. I shall have to use fisticuffs to save the maiden." Or is the character someone who might think, "Stones! Why couldn't I have gotten the blade repaired yesterday? Knuckles still ache from too many ales at the Oily Cauldron." Or whatever. Keep an eye on how your character really thinks and speaks, and it'll improve it that much more.

I don't think you should feel discouraged at all. Putting something out before it's ready is not that big a deal. Leave it, and go through your story with an objective eye, some help, and a determination to cut all the fat away. Then's the time for a more representative cover and a punchier blurb (to go with your punchier story!). And then go through the second novel with the same stiff upper lip and resolve.

Reading a couple of craft books can help during this process, as can experienced betas who know the genre.

Cheer up--you've got the raw materials here. You just haven't finished shaping it into something great yet. You can, though! You can.


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## henderson (Jul 14, 2014)

I like the cover. 

It has a Joe Abercrombie First Law Trilogy UK covers vibe to it.

I agree about the long sentences.  Be nice to separate the paragraphs as well.


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## tommy gun (May 3, 2015)

Hi Stefan I know exactly what you mean.  I tend to be pretty straightforward so here is my 2 cents:

1.  You are writing and doing something you must like and possibly love.  That puts you head and shoulders above a lot of people.  Your family does not understand this and likely does not see what this means to you.  They are looking at the world differently.  Hopefully they are just misunderstanding and not "mean".

They don't get it now.  They won't get it later.  Talk to people on this board, interact and deal with people who will be more supportive and help you work yourself up.  You can get lots of awesome feedback here and you have seen with page after page of comments that people are here doing.

Simply put:  Ignore those who are negative and pay attention to those who are supportive.

2.  I am a Realtor for a decade now.  This can be a very hard business.  I have a critically sick child and my wife is not supportive of my writing at all.
My answer is to always self motivate.  I get up every morning and remind myself of my value.
No matter what anyone says or is negative toward me about.
I just stay realistic and do not self delude.

3.  If you still have a job and write for fun and hopefully to cover your costs over time then this is an awesome hobby for now and will hopefully get better for you as time goes on.

I think you are amazing for chasing a dream.  Keep it up and look for supporters.

Last point?  Do NOT drop your price.  A sale at $4.99 or $0.99.  If you sell 10 books in a year at least you make a real profit.  You can always change that when you have a few books out there.  OR you can run the occasional sale.

Good luck and remember:
STAY POSITIVE!!!!!    

If anyone thinks I am wrong lmk.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

mica said:


> I really dislike that mindset, it is defeatist. I did not go into a job interview thinking i'm not going to get this job or go and take an exam and think i'm not going to pass this.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with going into this and believing that i can write something that a few people want to buy and read. If I study the bestselling authors and books in my genre, get advice from authors who are selling on places like kboards, maybe attend a couple writing workshops and improve my writing. Then put the best package together (a good story, edited, good cover) I can sell some books and make some kind of living from this.
> 
> ...


Well, if you couldn't tell by my winky face, the idea of going into this venture with humble expectations and being grateful for everything that exceeds them is meant to diffuse unrealistic expectations and to encourage simply being, well, grateful for whatever happens - not to be defeatist. Of course, I followed that up with the fact that some things are in our control and we should take control and do them the very best that we can. But I've spent thirty years as a working professional in the Arts. Everyone should dream, and then work towards that dream, but there is simply no guarantee of success. To think there is some guarantee just because you do everything 'right' simply isn't demonstrated in the reality of artistic professions - or hardly any normal ones LOL!

It isn't meant to be discouraging. It's meant to encourage doing what we can, doing it well, and not worrying about what we can't control. If we do our very best and if we love what we do, we'll be satisfied - not bitterly disappointed.

I wish the OP and everyone else on the boards - including myself - tremendous success. But if it doesn't come immediately or at all, I wish them and me happiness in pursuing it.


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## John Claudio (Nov 29, 2014)

TBH, "the moist suck of the frequented path" made me stop reading and go "wtf?"

Try not to have any howlers in your first few pages.


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## Lauren P. (Jul 3, 2014)

Stefan, have you recently changed your cover? I seem to remember this post back in July, along with a rather bland cover of your novel.

Anyway, I just wanted to pop in and say how much I love your current cover. It's vibrant, interesting, colorful and intriguing. Congratulations!


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## PyjamaMan (Jul 22, 2015)

Nothing wrong with the writing imo, but the beginning just isn't interesting. See how GOT and others have an in media res start, building to an incident? Try that. 

I think the tone or voice is also alienating to people who wouldn't necessarily read this genre by choice, that's all. That said, a snappier, less portentious tone is certainly doable (desirable now?) in this genre. But you don't need to go to a writing class at all, imo.


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## CarolynVMurray (Mar 13, 2015)

Fantastic new cover!! Great job.

I would suggest next working on the Look Inside. Leap into the story. Streamline the description. Having a man talking to his dog can lead to awkward dialogue where you're trying to inform the audience about something, but it leads to someone saying things that you would never say to a dog.


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## Lady Q (Jun 27, 2015)

Oh, yes. The new cover is better suited to the genre. Hope it helps!


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