# From the other side of the desk . . .



## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Last August I graduated with a MFA in Creative Writing. Within a month I was hired at a junior college as their General Education Instructor. I am surprised at how little the public school system is teaching children. Most students don't understand how to properly construct sentences. Our cell phone technology has created even more problems. Text lingo is an increasing handicap.

Here's what I am seeing:

Several students have turned in research essays with "u" as "you." Little "i's" instead of I. Whenever one student used contractions in her work, she left out the apostrophes (wont, dont, cant, etc.). I brought this to her attention, and she replied, "But my cellphone add them for me."

I said, "Yes, but Word doesn't. At least not yet. Give them a couple years, and they will probably add that feature to Word, too."

Has technology made the younger generation this lazy? Cellphones are like pacifiers to most high school and college students (even nontraditional college students). During breaks or after class, they immediately turn on their phones and text or quickly call someone.

I also teach public speaking. Two quarters back, one student's cellphone started ringing while she was giving her presentation. At first she didn't realize it was hers. After the fourth ring, she said, "Is that mine?"

We all nodded.

She went to her seat, grabbed the phone, and instead of turning it off, she *answered* it! This incident forced me to add this clause to my syllabus, "And if you answer your cellphone during a speech, it is an automatic zero."

I fear cellphone addiction is harming people more than they realize.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

These are junior college students? Has every school/teacher/parent they've had up until now not taught them anything?


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Monique said:


> These are junior college students? Has every school/teacher/parent they've had up until now not taught them anything?


That's the big problem in this area. Schools are teaching students to the "test," which are the state tests. If a school's test percentage is high enough, the school gets extra money from the state. But, the kids aren't learning the basic skills to get through. They are passed and let go. "Maybe they'll pick it up as they go" philosophy. It's sad. This is Kentucky and Southern Ohio. On essay questions, they are taught to rephrase the question into a statement if they don't know the answer. That gives them a point on the test.

My wife and I actually moved to Alabama in 1998 after we graduated with our B.S. degrees. Our children were entering preschool and first grade. Kentucky was teaching kids to "spell the word like it sounds. Don't worry if it's correct" (I'm not joking). We moved back to KY in 2007, and our children were two grades ahead of their peers.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Yeah, I'm with Monique on this one... where did they go to school before? That's very odd! My son's high school didn't allow cell phones in class, and certainly required standard writing conventions for all submitted work. When I teach university classes, I don't ban cell phones, but I've also never had an issue with their use. I've had students use smartphones for light research (because they can go online), and I looooooove it when students bring laptops to class (I teach business English and writing) so they can work together. 

I get all kinds of informal emails, but I've never seen cell phone conventions in a paper or a presentation.


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm not surprised. Two of my close friends are college professors. They must state in their syllabus that text talk is not allowed in assignments but their students still hand them in that way.

Also, see this report on SAT scores falling: http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-sat-scores-20130929,0,2158987.story


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## Duane Gundrum (Apr 5, 2011)

Monique said:


> These are junior college students? Has every school/teacher/parent they've had up until now not taught them anything?


I'm a college professor. Some of the papers I receive from students are atrociously bad. Out of 25 students, I'm lucky if I get five really good papers. 7 or 8 of them are so bad that you wonder how they got through third grade of elementary school. It gets really frustrating each year because you give the big speech at the beginning (and numerous times during the semester) and still they turn in crap that they haven't bothered to read or have anyone else read. And when you fail them, you're treated as if you're the reason why they failed.


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## Ashy (Jul 2, 2013)

DON'T get me started.

There's a reason my wife and I homeschool our four kids.


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## Chris Culver (Jan 28, 2011)

I used to teach in a university and experienced a lot of the same trials you're going through. Your first year is tough because you're still trying to figure out how to teach and how to lead a classroom. The key, in my experience, was setting expectations early. I told my students that if I saw them texting or if their cell phones rang during class, I'd ask them to leave for the day. If that meant they had to leave in the middle of an exam - thereby failing the exam - so be it. They knew the consequences of bringing a cell phone into class.

I also used to give them a diagnostic writing exercise the very first day. It let me see how well they wrote, but more than that, it allowed me to show them what I expected of them. I graded it, but I never recorded it. In an average class, about 50% of them failed that first writing exercise. What always made it sad was that about half those F-students came up to me later and complained that their high school teachers gave them As and Bs.

The public education system [not just in Kentucky] is depressing.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Be glad you don't teach M A T H.  It was a nightmare even 10 years ago.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

LisaGraceBooks said:


> I'm not surprised. Two of my close friends are college professors. They must state in their syllabus that text talk is not allowed in assignments but their students still hand them in that way.
> 
> Also, see this report on SAT scores falling: http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-sat-scores-20130929,0,2158987.story


That's a shocking report.

When I graduated from Morehead State University in 1998, approximately 80% of incoming freshmen had to take intermediate college algebra. Those classes were full.

As for text talk in assignments? This is so ingrained that they don't realize they are doing it.

It seems rare in this area that any student is held back because they are not academically ready for the next level. Then, it's up to college instructors and professors to "try" to get them caught up.


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## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

> I'm a college professor. Some of the papers I receive from students are atrociously bad. Out of 25 students, I'm lucky if I get five really good papers. 7 or 8 of them are so bad that *you wonder how they got through third grade of elementary school*. It gets really frustrating each year because you give the big speech at the beginning (and numerous times during the semester) and still they turn in crap that they haven't bothered to read or have anyone else read. And when you fail them, you're treated as if you're the reason why they failed.


Right there is the issue. They should still be in third grade of elementary school, until they can pass it. But somehow, hurting their feelings has become a worse sin than sending them into the world with a third grade education.



> There's a reason my wife and I homeschool our four kids.


All my grandkids are homeschooled too.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

sarbonn said:


> I'm a college professor. Some of the papers I receive from students are atrociously bad. Out of 25 students, I'm lucky if I get five really good papers. 7 or 8 of them are so bad that *you wonder how they got through third grade of elementary schoo*l. It gets really frustrating each year because you give the big speech at the beginning (and numerous times during the semester) and still they turn in crap that they haven't bothered to read or have anyone else read. And *when you fail them, you're treated as if you're the reason why they failed*.


While grading papers, I often state that there's so much red ink that I periodically have to stop and check to make certain it's not my blood.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Ashy said:


> DON'T get me started.
> 
> There's a reason my wife and I homeschool our four kids.


This is becoming MORE common and with good reason. One of my colleagues home-schools his as well.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

LeonardDHilleyII said:


> This is becoming MORE common and with good reason. One of my colleagues home-schools his as well.


Most of the professors I knew sent their kids to private schools. Oh and you have my sympathies.


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## Joshua Dalzelle (Jun 12, 2013)

I went through high school in the late '90's (small, country school) and we were required to diagram sentences and learn structure in addition to creative writing. I tried to help out a friend's daughter who was in high school and I was shocked at how little they were required to know by their senior year. 

I also have read undergrad papers when I was finishing up grad school that left me speechless... these aren't unintelligent people either so I have to assume there's been a systemic breakdown somewhere along the line.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Chris Culver said:


> I used to teach in a university and experienced a lot of the same trials you're going through. Your first year is tough because you're still trying to figure out how to teach and how to lead a classroom. *The key, in my experience, was setting expectations early. I told my students that if I saw them texting or if their cell phones rang during class, I'd ask them to leave for the day. If that meant they had to leave in the middle of an exam - thereby failing the exam - so be it. They knew the consequences of bringing a cell phone into class.*
> 
> I was one of the first at this college to do this, too. Other instructors are getting on board with it.
> 
> ...


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Be glad you don't teach M A T H. It was a nightmare even 10 years ago.


And sadly, it is getting much worse.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, I feel very unusual now. I never had problems in my university classes with text talk on papers or low academic level in undergrads (two large state universities, most recently), and my kid went to public schools all the way through (now at an Ivy League because they have great financial aid). His high school teachers were great. As were his middle school and elementary school teachers, actually.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

1001nightspress said:


> Well, I feel very unusual now. I never had problems in my university classes with text talk on papers or low academic level in undergrads (two large state universities, most recently), and my kid went to public schools all the way through (now at an Ivy League because they have great financial aid). His high school teachers were great. As were his middle school and elementary school teachers, actually.


You may not be that unusual. You said you are a "University" professor. The OP is at a junior/community college. I do believe that Universities have much higher educational standards than your local college. If I am remembering correctly, anyone with a high school diploma/GED can go to their local college, whereas to go to university, they have to have good grades and a minimum SAT score (minimum determined by the University). So two very different types of students.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> You may not be that unusual. You said you are a "University" professor. The OP is at a junior/community college. I do believe that Universities have much higher educational standards than your local college. If I am remembering correctly, anyone with a high school diploma/GED can go to their local college, whereas to go to university, they have to have good grades and a minimum SAT score (minimum determined by the University). So two very different types of students.


You are correct. I question daily how some are in college here.

FYI, I had one student (nontraditional, late 20s) who has never been told that she was dyslexic. She has been a student here for a year. After several papers I finally showed her work to two of my colleagues. Both agreed that is what she has and are getting her help. But after all these years she didn't know and no one tried to help her?


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## A.W.Hartoin (Dec 27, 2011)

We've had an issue with our son's middle school language arts teachers which may explain why kids don't do well at higher levels. My son never gets back any of his papers. A grade shows up in the online grade book and that's it. If he's lucky, he'll get a couple of comments next to the grade. He would learn more if he could see the red marks. It's not unusual for my son to get a project rubric back with nothing but a grade circled. When asked what he did wrong to lose points, the teacher says he should know. How would he know that, if you don't tell him?


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

A.W.Hartoin said:


> We've had an issue with our son's middle school language arts teachers which may explain why kids don't do well at higher levels. My son never gets back any of his papers. A grade shows up in the online grade book and that's it. If he's lucky, he'll get a couple of comments next to the grade. He would learn more if he could see the red marks. It's not unusual for my son to get a project rubric back with nothing but a grade circled. When asked what he did wrong to lose points, the teacher says he should know. How would he know that, if you don't tell him?


Wow . . .

Yes, he's entitled to see his work and where corrections are needed. I often hand back papers that I've edited and ask that they rewrite them (when they are really bad) for some bonus points. I do this because I hope they can see how to correct the errors in the future.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

LeonardDHilleyII said:


> My wife and I actually moved to Alabama in 1998 after we graduated with our B.S. degrees. Our children were entering preschool and first grade. Kentucky was teaching kids to "spell the word like it sounds. Don't worry if it's correct" (I'm not joking). We moved back to KY in 2007, and our children were two grades ahead of their peers.


I was in grade school during the '50s. I remember being taught Phonics. Was and still is so helpful when it comes to reading. (I remember a college grad co-worker who could not "sound out" unfamiliar words when reading. She didn't know the words. It blew my mind??!!) I don't think I've had a problem with spelling due to Phonics. I've always been thankful for it.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

LeonardDHilleyII said:


> You are correct. I question daily how some are in college here.
> 
> FYI, I had one student (nontraditional, late 20s) who has never been told that she was dyslexic. She has been a student here for a year. After several papers I finally showed her work to two of my colleagues. Both agreed that is what she has and are getting her help. But after all these years she didn't know and no one tried to help her?


I worked Special Population. One student I worked with had been told by her first grade teacher that she would always fail tests. So the poor child had been in Special Ed since then. I knew the girl was smart so I told her let's prove that woman wrong. I am happy to report that she started making A's on her tests and went and told my boss that she no longer needed or wanted to be SP.

Now my heartbreak student was a young very handicapped student that had been taught absolutely positively nothing in school. This poor kid could not even do simple addition and subtraction. I had to work with him in Excel. (Yes, even with a helper in class, he still failed.) 
And yes at the college I worked out there were a disporportionate number of handicapped (physical) kids in basic math (2 steps below Intermediate Algebra) and remedial english.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Read this, both for some laughs and a few tears about the situation:


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

NogDog said:


> Read this, both for some laughs and a few tears about the situation:


Great book!


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## HarryK (Oct 20, 2011)

I didn't even have a particularly good education and I still die a little inside whenever I see the whole you're/your mistake being made. That's such a basic one, that you'd think people would have a handle on it. I tend to ignore a lot of mistakes in grammar and spelling (or just not catch them), but the you're/your one always gets me. Though, lately the many variations of "could of" have been bugging me as well.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

HarryK said:


> I didn't even have a particularly good education and I still die a little inside whenever I see the whole you're/your mistake being made. That's such a basic one, that you'd think people would have a handle on it. I tend to ignore a lot of mistakes in grammar and spelling (or just not catch them), but the you're/your one always gets me. Though, lately the many variations of "could of" have been bugging me as well.


"Could Have" there is no "could of".


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

cinisajoy said:


> "Could Have" there is no "could of".


It's the phonetic spelling of "could've". 

Not necessarily a grammar mistake as much as it is a (stupid) idiom, but for some reason "I was like" as a substitute for "I said" is my figurative fingernail-on-the-blackboard.


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## HarryK (Oct 20, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> "Could Have" there is no "could of".


Yup like NogDog says, it's when people use "could of" when they really mean "could've" (variations include should've and would've). It didn't used to bother me, but lately it has been. Maybe I've just been seeing it more often lately. I have no idea.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

_Could've_ and _should've_ may be contractions, but don't usually see those. _Could have_ and _would have_. It is _have_, not _of_.


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## HarryK (Oct 20, 2011)

Sandpiper said:


> _Could've_ and _should've_ may be contractions, but don't usually see those. _Could have_ and _would have_. It is _have_, not _of_.


Hmmm, I've always assumed all those people who write something like "should of" are confusing it with "should've" rather than "should have" but who knows?


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## T.M. Blades (May 1, 2013)

> I was in grade school during the '50s. I remember being taught Phonics. Was and still is so helpful when it comes to reading. (I remember a college grad co-worker who could not "sound out" unfamiliar words when reading. She didn't know the words. It blew my mind??!!) I don't think I've had a problem with spelling due to Phonics. I've always been thankful for it.


My friend graduated from college a couple of years ago, and got a job as a teacher at a small school. They told her not to teach children Phonics, because they "don't do that anymore". She was told to teach them how to recognize certain words, and not how to sound them out. How would you ever be able to learn anything on your own this way?? She was also constantly harassed, and blamed by parents for their children not caring about their school work. She finally quit, and has not gone back to teaching.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

HarryK said:


> I didn't even have a particularly good education and I still die a little inside whenever I see the whole you're/your mistake being made. That's such a basic one, that you'd think people would have a handle on it. I tend to ignore a lot of mistakes in grammar and spelling (or just not catch them), but the you're/your one always gets me. Though, lately the many variations of "could of" have been bugging me as well.


I see "are" used for "our." Their, they're, and there are often used incorrectly. I spend hours trying to teach these students the differences, but one big problem is that they give me the blank stare without taking notes. One student, no matter how much I explained her error, continued using "an" for "and."

I substituted at an independent school system while working on my Masters. When I worked for the primary school, their classes were broken up into 30 minute blocks. By the time you explained their class assignment, it was time to move to the next block. They need longer blocks for each subject, so they can ask questions when they need to know something. Too much homework was one problem. You never know if parents were helping them at home (or if they knew how to help them). So much has changed in the school system and not for the better.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

HarryK said:


> Hmmm, I've always assumed all those people who write something like "should of" are confusing it with "should've" rather than "should have" but who knows?


I think they hear and say _should've_, but again, I don't remember seeing it written. That contraction looks peculiar to me. _Should have._


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

The, "of" part, at least locally, is a lazy pronunciation of, "have".


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

HappyGuy said:


> The, "of" part, at least locally, is a lazy pronunciation of, "have".


I agree, but I think the problem is laziness in thought and speech. My pet peeve is "I could care less" which I hear all the time. If they just thought for a second about what the words they are saying mean they would surely realize that if they could care less, that means they care some. What they really mean is "I couldn't care less" (than I do now).


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## editorsuetoth (Sep 30, 2013)

Besides being an editor, I also teach writing skills at a junior college. The things these students don't know by freshman year of college is downright scary. I can't imagine how most of them made it through high school! 

I know when I went to college, there was no such thing as a remedial writing class. Now there are too many students to fit in all the sections that are offered where I teach...it's sad.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

I know when to use to, too, and two. That's easy. But I'm still lost -- _effect_ and _affect_. HELP!

I was a legal secretary for a number of years. One attorney I worked for did NOT understand paragraphs by subject matter. He had no idea??!! When he revised what he'd written, he would simply rearrange the order of the paragraphs. He had no idea what he was doing.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Sandpiper said:


> I know when to use to, too, and two. That's easy. But I'm still lost -- _effect_ and _affect_. HELP!
> 
> I was a legal secretary for a number of years. One attorney I worked for did NOT understand paragraphs by subject matter. He had no idea??!! When he revised what he'd written, he would simply rearrange the order of the paragraphs. He had no idea what he was doing.


This made my head hurt though:

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/affect-versus-effect?page=all

"So, most of the time, affect with an a is a verb and effect with an e is a noun; and now we can get to the mnemonics. First, the mnemonic involves a very easy noun to help you remember: aardvark. Yes, if you can remember aardvark-a very easy noun-you'll always remember that affect with an a is a verb and effect with an e is a noun. Why? Because the first letters of "a very easy noun" are the same first letters as "affect verb effect noun!" That's a very easy noun. Affect (with an a) verb effect (with an e) noun.

"But why Aardvark?" you ask. Because there's also an example to help you remember. It's "The arrows affected Aardvark. The effect was eye-popping." It should be easy to remember that affect with an a goes with the a-words, arrow and aardvark, and that effect with an e goes with the e-word, eye-popping. If you can visualize the sentences, "The arrows affected the aardvark. The effect was eye-popping," it's pretty easy to see that affect with an a is a verb and effect with an e is a noun.

- See more at: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/affect-versus-effect?page=all#sthash.DDu56I23.dpuf"


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## HappyGuy (Nov 3, 2008)

How about, "The romance effect, affected every heart"?


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

HappyGuy said:


> How about, "The romance effect, affected every heart"?


wouldn't it be "romantic effect"?
I'm asking because I'm not sure, not to be a troll...


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Sandpiper said:


> I know when to use to, too, and two. That's easy. But I'm still lost -- _effect_ and _affect_. HELP!
> 
> I was a legal secretary for a number of years. One attorney I worked for did NOT understand paragraphs by subject matter. He had no idea??!! When he revised what he'd written, he would simply rearrange the order of the paragraphs. He had no idea what he was doing.


That's when I go for a synonym.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes, the verb and noun thing. But I thought at sometime I'd heard there was an exception to that? Maybe that's why I'm never sure. So _affect_ is always a verb and _effect_ is always a noun?


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

I live in the tri-state (OH, KY, & WV). On the news this morning, WV has 73% of fourth graders are not reading at their grade level. The US overall is at 68%. These are astounding figures. http://www.wtrf.com/story/23575827/report-7-of-10-west-virginia-fourth-graders-not-reading-at-proficient-level


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

editorsuetoth said:


> Besides being an editor, I also teach writing skills at a junior college. The things these students don't know by freshman year of college is downright scary. I can't imagine how most of them made it through high school!
> 
> I know when I went to college, there was no such thing as a remedial writing class. Now there are too many students to fit in all the sections that are offered where I teach...it's sad.


It is very troublesome. Teachers aren't teaching the kids in my area how to write. I am actually teaching them what they should know in elementary school. It is frustrating.


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## KindleGirl (Nov 11, 2008)

I feel there are so many things leading to all of these problems, but I know one of the problems in our state is all of the testing. Our schools and now teachers are judged mainly on test scores. So in order not to lose funding, or be controlled by the state, schools must teach to the tests to insure they do well. Teachers are also judged by the test scores and student's grades. If teachers want to keep their jobs and continue to get pay increases, they have to have kids score well on tests and their grades in class have to be good as well.  Obviously most teachers are upset about this as what is covered by the testing is not what they feel is most important. It's a discussion that could last for hours. In the end, too many people that are not educators have too much say in how things are done. But as I said before, this isn't the only issue going on and so many issues have led to where we are.


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## Tatiana (Aug 20, 2010)

We had our eyes open when my DS went to the local community college and took his required Composition I and II courses.  The instructor in Comp. I gave my DS "special creative writing assignments" because he was beyond the level of any of her other students and needed something challenging.  You see she was teaching basic grammar and sentence construction to these college students because, as she explained to DS, they had no idea what the parts of speech were, let alone how to construct a simple sentence!  DS, she said, understood grammar and composition and she wanted to help him improve his writing skills.  

The Comp. II instructor was not interested in challenging or helping DS so he just did his simple/basic assignments with little thought or interest (he aced the class and his Comp. I class btw), and was totally bored.  His final exam was to write a 500 word essay on what he learned in the class.  His answer was NOTHING but he had to drag it out for 500 words.    He was writing 500 word essays in 4th grade he told her.

You see I homeschooled my son and we used ABeka Language Arts.  It has one of the most intensive grammar programs and focuses on teaching the kids to write well, which they feel is crucial for college and the future job markets.  DS was studying the parts of speech and diagramming in third grade and writing book reports, current events reports, book reviews and 500 word essays complete with outlines, note cards, and bibliographies in fourth grade.  Grammar and sentence structure is not something taught much (if at all) in our local school system according to some friends who are elementary, middle school and high school teachers in that system.  It is all about teaching to the test they say.  Apparently, there are more important things to teach than the parts of speech and how to compose a sentence.  

College instructors have my deepest sympathy these days.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

KindleGirl said:


> *I feel there are so many things leading to all of these problems, but I know one of the problems in our state is all of the testing. Our schools and now teachers are judged mainly on test scores. So in order not to lose funding, or be controlled by the state, schools must teach to the tests to insure they do well. Teachers are also judged by the test scores and student's grades.*


This is what a lot of instructors are saying and why many of them have left public schools to teach at the college level. Some students have also told me that this is exactly how their schools taught them. Many are so far behind. The system needs a major overhaul.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Tatiana said:


> We had our eyes open when my DS went to the local community college and took his required Composition I and II courses. The instructor in Comp. I gave my DS "special creative writing assignments" because he was beyond the level of any of her other students and needed something challenging. *You see she was teaching basic grammar and sentence construction to these college students because, as she explained to DS, they had no idea what the parts of speech were, let alone how to construct a simple sentence! DS, she said, understood grammar and composition and she wanted to help him improve his writing skills.*
> 
> The Comp. II instructor was not interested in challenging or helping DS so he just did his simple/basic assignments with little thought or interest (he aced the class and his Comp. I class btw), and was totally bored. His final exam was to write a 500 word essay on what he learned in the class. His answer was NOTHING but he had to drag it out for 500 words.  He was writing 500 word essays in 4th grade he told her.
> 
> ...


I now use high school worksheets for beginning English classes to see what level their skills are. And it is sad to see some not get 40% of the answers correct. Once I see where they are, I can then teach to help improve their knowledge. A student informed us that the grade school her daughter attends is no longer teaching spelling now. I cringe to think where our students will be ten years from now.


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## prairiesky (Aug 11, 2009)

In defense of teachers: reading and writing skills are still taught, phonics is still being taught, the information is being given.  However, the learner is not accepting the responsibility of remembering it, using it, applying it.  I have a grandson who is smart but lazy.  He is unwilling to work at learning something if it is really HARD.  How do you teach that?


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

prairiesky said:


> In defense of teachers: reading and writing skills are still taught, phonics is still being taught, the information is being given. However, the learner is not accepting the responsibility of remembering it, using it, applying it. I have a grandson who is smart but lazy. He is unwilling to work at learning something if it is really HARD. How do you teach that?


I agree that laziness also contributes to the problem. I heard another person mention that some parents use the television to babysit their infants during their waking hours until they enter preschool and elementary school. Then, they don't know how to pay attention in class because their attention span is so low. I see the dependency on technology (cell phones, games, etc.) as a way to occupy our minds and these distractions do also make people lazy.

Thanks for the response.


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## Tony Richards (Jul 6, 2011)

Laziness is an in-built natural response in all predators -- or part predators as we are. It's a biological imperative to preserve what energy we have for the chase for prey ... looks at lions when they're not hunting ... and in modern terms, that leads to our use of remote controls for anything we can instead of getting our backsides off the couch.

Back when I saw a kid, the prevailing controversy surrounded kids being allowed to take their calculators into math exams. Those who were for that practice were wrong ... maths is a discipline that teaches us how we can add up in our heads, not simply for the sake of that but so that we can learn to do other things quickly and methodically in our heads as well.

As for the corruption of the written language, it's a simple as this: it's and its are two different words that mean completely different things. Always have done. Always will do. No amount of technology can change that.


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## MsScarlett (Jan 12, 2010)

LeonardDHilleyII said:


> My wife and I actually moved to Alabama in 1998 after we graduated with our B.S. degrees. Our children were entering preschool and first grade. Kentucky was teaching kids to "spell the word like it sounds. Don't worry if it's correct" (I'm not joking). We moved back to KY in 2007, and our children were two grades ahead of their peers.


Actually, phonetic spelling in primary grades is valid and developmentally appropriate. When young children are writing, the most important thing is for them to get their ideas down on paper. They don't have the automaticity with spelling words like adults (should) have, which can slow them down in the writing process if it becomes the primary focus. Words they know should always be spelled correctly. If they are unsure of a spelling, "sound it out" can be used with the idea that you can go back later and correct the spelling and edit.

ETA: Testing: HALF of our evaluation here is based on ONE standardized test score. Our rate of pay is based on our evaluation scores. It is very frustrating. Teachers do not like being chained to the test. But when it's your livelihood on the line, what do you do? The teachers that I know are caring people who continue to put up with the nonsense because they love what they do and they want to make a difference in the life of children. It's a constant struggle for teachers between what they know they should do and the worry of how they are going to continue to make a living. We desperately need a change in the system.


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