# Ad-supported e-books?



## brianjanuary (Oct 18, 2011)

Interesting article!

http://bigthink.com/endless-innovation/why-tablets-will-lead-to-ad-supported-books


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

dear god I hope not.


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

BTackitt said:


> dear god I hope not.


^^ This.


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## Steverino (Jan 5, 2011)

brianjanuary said:


> Interesting article! http://bigthink.com/endless-innovation/why-tablets-will-lead-to-ad-supported-books


Authors who sell well won't need the revenue, and will say no to this. Authors who don't sell well might swallow this pill in order to make at least some money... but they won't make money, because their audience isn't big enough.

The technology is there, the culture might tolerate it (grudgingly), but I don't see how the economics would work.

(Great article; thanks!)


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## mestrin (Aug 27, 2012)

Steverino said:


> Authors who sell well won't need the revenue, and will say no to this. Authors who don't sell well might swallow this pill in order to make at least some money... but they won't make money, because their audience isn't big enough.
> 
> The technology is there, the culture might tolerate it (grudgingly), but I don't see how the economics would work.
> 
> (Great article; thanks!)


I'm with Steverino, for the most part. But let me just add one thing. The great thing about a book is that you can escape into a world without life's distractions. We do this for movies too, but they only last two hours and the cinematic medium is always filtered through many hands (writer, director, actors, editor, studio, etc.). The novel is much more intimate. Inserting ads into fiction would be a huge non-starter for me, both as a writer and as a reader. Good fiction sucks you into a world; ads pull you out of it.


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## hamerfan (Apr 24, 2011)

mestrin said:


> The great thing about a book is that you can escape into a world without life's distractions.


That's it! Well put, mestrin.


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## kindlegrl81 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have no problem with ads on the lock screen and home screen on my Kindles (some of them are actually nice to look at actually) but there is no way I would deal with ads in a book right now let alone pop up ads in the middle of reading said book.  If Amazon and the other ebook sellers started doing that, I think I would be forced to go back to paper books.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

I have a lot of problems with this. One is that it distracts from reading. When I'm reading, there's nothing but me and the author's words. I want to be immersed in it. Ads would be jarring.

I also believe that ads in books will corrupt the books. When I buy a book, it's a deal between me and the author. The author writes a book that I want, and I pay for it. But with ads, there's a third party. If the advertiser isn't happy, that book doesn't get the ads. A third party can get in the way of me getting books that I want.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Those of us old enough to have been reading in the 1970s remember (and in my case at least, still own) paperbacks with ads inserted into the book.  A few months ago, I reread a Spider Robinson science fiction book from the late 70s, and was surprised to find fine glossy paper (inserted in amongst the yellowing newsprint-quality paper used for the book text) touting the awesomeness of True cigarettes (I've never been a smoker, but I don't even remember or know of that brand) and a perforated tearout urging me to join the Science Fiction Book Club and get four free books for ten cents or something like that.  These ads only lasted a couple of years before they stopped appearing, so I assume they didn't work.  Ads in ebooks would suffer a similar fate, I suspect.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah, I remember those, Claw. . . . .I won't say they 'took me out of the book' because it's not like they were in the middle of a page of print.  It was easy enough to skip over them. . . . .but because they were a paper so different from the story, they were an annoyance.  I usually ripped them out, if I could, but sometimes that wasn't possible or meant the book would suffer since they were usually bound in there pretty thoroughly!

I think you're right, though:  they stopped doing it because it wasn't worth it. . . . . .

There also always used to be pages in the back, too, where you could order books directly from publishers. . . . . .


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

I didn't think there is enough volume in ebooks to make ads truly violable, but you never know what some idiot may want to try.

If it were just one cigarette ad in the middle à la the old paperbacks, maybe, _just maybe_, I could let that slide. But not ads for widgets every 20 pages or for anything like the New Dawn movie--that would be beyond the pale--and I'd insist on a full refund. Amazon would probably do it. But I still might want to get tough: I would very tempted to call whatever product pushers are placing the ad and cuss them out until I'm out of breath or they hang up. I would hope better sense would win out, but I feel the same way towards ads as Norman Mailer did towards Gore Vidal.


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## bce (Nov 17, 2009)

I too remember the books in the 70's that had the advertising.  Those that I couldn't rip out, I cut out.  I thought it was nice of them to give me a bookmark with each book.  

I really would not like advertising within an e-book because it would disrupt the flow as I was reading it.  I tolorate ads in the magazines I read on my fire because they are spaced between the articles, not in the middle of it.

I have a question for those of you that use your signature to advertise your books.  If I were reading one of your books and you could put advertising for your other books in it, would you?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

bce said:


> I have a question for those of you that use your signature to advertise your books. If I were reading one of your books and you could put advertising for your other books in it, would you?


Brian, it's probably best to ask that question in the Writer's Cafe. . . .here in the book corner we don't really allow authors to answer 'as authors'. . . .smacks too much of self promotion. Readers, of course are welcome to respond as are writers as long as they respond _as_ readers. 

I do recall there have been discussions in the Cafe about putting exerpts/adverts/whatever you want to call it of _other works_ at the backs of ebooks. _Readers_ generally don't seem to mind too much, but want to know it's there so they know how long the book is really. . . .there's a good chunk of folks who consider the size of the book when purchasing and don't want to find they've spent, say $5 on what's really a short story with excerpts or promos for new material taking up a large amount of the ebook file.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I do recall there have been discussions in the Cafe about putting exerpts/adverts/whatever you want to call it of _other works_ at the backs of ebooks. _Readers_ generally don't seem to mind too much, but want to know it's there so they know how long the book is really. . . .there's a good chunk of folks who consider the size of the book when purchasing and don't want to find they've spent, say $5 on what's really a short story with excerpts or promos for new material taking up a large amount of the ebook file.


That's one benefit of the "real" page numbers in e-books. The location tells you where you are in the whole document, but the page number tells you where you are in the book, excluding things like appendices - or sample chapters of other books. I like knowing how much is left of the book, it lets me know where I am in the story. I it seems like there are 20 pages left, and the book ends, that can be jarring. But let me know that while there may be X number of locations left, I'm on the last few pages, and I'm fine with that.

But I think that page numbers are increasingly irrelevant. I'd rather know how many page turns I have, which would depend on the font size I am using at the moment.


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## Lensman (Aug 28, 2012)

The idea of having ads interrupting me reading is anathema! I wouldn't buy a book if it was going to interrupt me with adverts. Books are pretty cheap, especially on the Kindle - I can't believe many people would accept having their book spoiled by adverts. Okay, an advert for another book at the end or even at the beginning I could put up with, but not in the body of the text.  I just hope most readers would vote with their feet (or should that be fingers or eyes?) and refuse to buy ad-books.


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## D. Nathan Hilliard (Jun 5, 2010)

Just great. I wonder if this means they will create a system where the author has to pay to keep ads out of his book  

At least I certainly hope they offer that option.


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## 13500 (Apr 22, 2010)

Absolutely abhor that idea!


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## Robert B. Marks (Nov 15, 2012)

Speaking as both an author and publisher, what a dreadful idea.

Mind you, there's a great Harlan Ellison piece about how he convinced a publisher to stop putting cigarette advertisements into his books - it starts with a complaint, escalates to him mailing them bricks, and as I recall it ends with him mailing a dead animal to them...by regular post...


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

That sounds like something he would do.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

Robert B. Marks said:


> Mind you, there's a great Harlan Ellison piece about how he convinced a publisher to stop putting cigarette advertisements into his books - it starts with a complaint, escalates to him mailing them bricks, and as I recall it ends with him mailing a dead animal to them...by regular post...


And here I thought cussing out the product pushers on phone was edgy. Dead animals it will be for the first product pushers who place an ad in an ebook! Though strong, creative cussing might be more cathartic and satisfying.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

It's going to happen, and soon.

And it will go through the same ideological struggle we first saw with ebooks..."I'll NEVER give up paper!" Then it will happen, become commonplace, and we will all forget we even had this discussion about it, much less that it was ever a point of concern.


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

mestrin said:


> Good fiction sucks you into a world; ads pull you out of it.


Excellent point. And that's also one of the reasons why premium cable television - HBO and Showtime - have it over all the other television stations in the US.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

scottnicholson said:


> It's going to happen, and soon.
> 
> And it will go through the same ideological struggle we first saw with ebooks..."I'll NEVER give up paper!" Then it will happen, become commonplace, and we will all forget we even had this discussion about it, much less that it was ever a point of concern.


I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries it. I think it is likely to fail.... If the ads are intrusive enough to break the immersion in a book that has been mentioned, I think readers will reject the ads. If the ads aren't that intrusive, I suspect the ad model will fail as the 1970s effort at ads in paper books apparently did. They won't get enough eyeballs to be worthwhile.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm with Claw on this.  While it may look like a good idea to advertisers, if there is a low response rate to those ads, they will disappear as little more than a failed experiment .... While we're all surrounded by advertising, not all of it is very successful as we've learned to block it out where we can and avoid it where it becomes too intrusive ....


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## meghanmalone (Nov 19, 2012)

Eek. As a reader, I would be pretty livid to be deeply immersed in a story only to get jarred back to reality by a plea to buy dish soap. Especially if I was at a "good part" of the book (if you know what I mean). No! Not okay. lol

As an author, I believe in being good to readers. Shoving advertisements in their faces in the hopes of earning a few pennies more is not being good to readers. It's my hope that enough authors agree that this idea quickly dies off as it becomes clear that ad-supported books will drive readers away rather than generate extra revenue.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

Of course, whether it is true or not, these ads will be sold as being more targeted than those old book ads ever could be. 

Maybe Amazon could put adverts in based on your previous buying patterns. That is how they will justify it, anyway.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

What's going to stop me from giving books with ads 1 star ratings on Amazon?  It happens all the time with agency priced books.  I'm not sure if there is a big downside effect from those negative ratings for price, but a lot of authors dislike the practice.  A lot of people would probably do this.  I would even though it smacks of asshattery.

And then, really, what types of ads will go into books?  Cigarettes and beer are probably out.  Tampons in vampire romances?  Cat food in Oliver Twist?

I think some idiots will try, but it will fail.


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

The market will find a way, and so will the producers and the audience.

And it won't be a single way, it will be dozens of different ways. Straight sponsorships, interactive ads, "value-added books," a choice to pay more for an ad-free version (just as you could with the "Kindle with deals").

You will not be forced to participate, just as you aren't forced to watch network television. Writers won't be forced to allow ads in their book (unless you transferred the license to a publisher that can do whatever it likes). Of course, that may mean those writers avoiding this option have a narrower selection of channels and smaller audience.

It may mean unpublishing their books from Kindle, because Amazon will almost certainly be one of the largest and most aggressive players to explore this. While Amazon is certain to give their customers a choice, they don't have the same worries over their product vendors--after all, 200,000 books are currently and voluntarily exclusive in the Select pool. It's not like there's going to be a shortage of writers anytime soon.

Can you imagine how many people would download a free James Patterson book with an ad rather than pay $14.99 for it? Hundreds of thousands, if not millions.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

scottnicholson said:


> Can you imagine how many people would download a free James Patterson book with an ad rather than pay $14.99 for it? Hundreds of thousands, if not millions.


I just started weeping.


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## amishromanceauthor (Sep 27, 2012)

I can quickly see books going the way of magazines.  One ad will lead to two, then ten, and before you know it, you'll wade through 70 pages of ads before you get to the first chapter like you're reading Rolling Stone or Vanity Fair.  Or, you know, maybe not.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

amishromanceauthor said:


> I can quickly see books going the way of magazines. One ad will lead to two, then ten, and before you know it, you'll wade through 70 pages of ads before you get to the first chapter like you're reading Rolling Stone or Vanity Fair. Or, you know, maybe not.


That's why I stopped reading magazines TBH. There were more and more ads to the point that content was reduced.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

scottnicholson said:


> Can you imagine how many people would download a free James Patterson book with an ad rather than pay $14.99 for it? Hundreds of thousands, if not millions.


Not sustainable.  Not feasible. Not a bloody chance in hell. One million downloads of a $14.99 eBook would required about $15 million to cover the costs. By comparison, a Super Bowl ad for 2012 has an average cost of $3.5 for a 30 second spot with about 110 million viewers. Unless Amazon wants a Loss Leader Strategy to get readers used to ads in books, this will never happen.

So how much is an ad in an ebook really worth? Here is an off the cuff guess at what the future of ads might be like:

The book costs $14.99, has 6,000 locations, and you want to bring the cost down to $0.00 with ads.


*Dollar Value Per Ad**Ads Per Book**Ads Per Location*$1.0014400$0.5029200$0.2559100$0.1311950$0.0623925$0.0347912$0.029596$0.0119183

Who wants an ebook with that many ads?


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## gljones (Nov 6, 2012)

The thought of getting ads while I'm trying to read a book makes me nauseous.


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## DavidFWeisman (Jun 10, 2012)

In a sense, this is already being done by Joe Konrath, though it's only a small portion of his revenue. For a fee, he will publish the first chapter of your e-book in the back of his e-book.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

DavidFWeisman said:


> In a sense, this is already being done by Joe Konrath, though it's only a small portion of his revenue. For a fee, he will publish the first chapter of your e-book in the back of his e-book.


He charges for that? Why am I not surprised?


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Rather than put ads in books, I think publishers will copy Hollywood. Product placements will be the name of the game.
_
Chapter 2

As private detective Tracer Bullet lead his gorgeous secretary into the hallway outside his office, the dreaded Kingpin himself stepped around the corner and began shooting! With his left arm, Tracer maneuvered Maggie behind him for protection, deftly placing her in a way that encouraged her to wrap her arms cozily around him. His right arm swept beneath his trenchcoat, and pulled his Swift & Blessum Masticator Model XI from his Wombat Leather shoulder holster. His Masticator blazed twice, and without even waiting to see The Kingpin fall, Tracer smoothly reholstered it, the breakfront design of the Wombat quietly opening up to readmit the handgun, and the patented asbestos lining absorbing the heat from the smoking barrel so that it didn't create a burn on his trenchcoat, or worse yet, on Tracer.

Maggie looked goggle eyed as The Kingpin slumped to the ground, and gave Tracer an awed look. "Wow, that Masticator sure makes you fast and accurate compared to that last PI I worked for. Maybe that's why you are still here and he is pushin' up daisies, ya think?" She began again to chew her gum regularly.

Tracer preened himself visibly and stood straight as he explained: "Yeah, I got it at Chet's Firearms Emporium on 9th Street, the finest vendor of new and used firearms in the city. I got a great price on it, saved enough to let me pay you last month. But what I'm worried about is how we're gonna fill the other eleven chapters of this book if I already iced the Principal Adversary at the beginning of Chapter 2!"

Maggie's calm demeanor dissolved into a look of horror as she contemplated this shocking announcement._

Of course, they will use the wifi or 3G connection to identify the correct locale and insert merchants and addresses that are near the reader's current location. When this starts being used, all I want is royalties....


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I actually read a book where the character mentioned loving Dr. Pepper so much I was beginning to wonder if he'd taken some money from the company.

Wasn't a very _good_ book, either. 

FWIW, chapters at the end are not that annoying to me. . .though I do want to know they're there when I start so I have an idea of where the end is. But I never read 'em. . . .


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I actually read a book where the character mentioned loving Dr. Pepper so much I was beginning to wonder if he'd taken some money from the company.
> 
> Wasn't a very _good_ book, either.
> 
> FWIW, chapters at the end are not that annoying to me. . .though I do want to know they're there when I start so I have an idea of where the end is. But I never read 'em. . . .


I read a not very good book too where the heroine was always drinking her Sprite.

Yeah, I don't mind sneak peeks of other books at the end, BUT, I want to know they are there before I buy the book.


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## Geemont (Nov 18, 2008)

The Hooded Claw said:


> Rather than put ads in books, I think publishers will copy Hollywood. Product placements will be the name of the game.


It would make things simple in once aspect: authors who engage in product placements are authors not worth reading. Put the book down and stop reading: don't but that author again. As someone else said, there will be no shortage of authors, so readers can choose to read books without the placements.

Now back in the late 80s and early 90s I attended a few writer's workshops that taught this thing called Brand Name Reality. It said authors can and should mention Brands because that adds "reality" and character "depth." For example, "Billy Bob drank a six pick of cheap beer every night" should be "Billy Bob drank a six pack of Coors every night."

There may be a few occasions when the Brand is important, though none come to mind off hand; most of the time I think the generic terms will do just as well. Brands can clutter a book with meaninglessness. I once tried to read _American Psycho_ but the names of so many Men's Designer Clothing was as befuddling as untranslated Chinese, only less interesting; I was turned off before the bloody parts began. Or Brands can fade into obscurity over time: does any modern reader know about Zimmermann hats?


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## Neil Ostroff (Mar 25, 2011)

hmmmm


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## Carrie Rubin (Nov 19, 2012)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I actually read a book where the character mentioned loving Dr. Pepper so much I was beginning to wonder if he'd taken some money from the company.


Yes, I was thinking that if ads get put in e-books, product placement will be next. Probably with a link to the product mentioned.  Neither option is appealing to me.


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

I don't like the idea of ads in books, either.  But if I could buy a book for half-price with ads, I might think about it, especially if the list price of the book was more than a few dollars.

Ads in theaters still annoy me - but that doesn't stop me from paying good money to go to the movies.


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## PaulLev (Nov 2, 2012)

Geemont said:


> So how much is an ad in an ebook really worth? Here is an off the cuff guess at what the future of ads might be like:
> 
> The book costs $14.99, has 6,000 locations, and you want to bring the cost down to $0.00 with ads.
> 
> ...


Good analysis - which suggests that the viable approach would be to reduce not eliminate the price of books with ads, and not run too many ads.


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