# If you had to start all over from scratch, what would you do?



## JoeMack (Jan 20, 2013)

Hello All...

Time and experience teaches us many lessons. Things we thought were important initially, once we actually DID it, don't seem so important or effective anymore. I know most writers don't start out in their journeys is a preconceived or planned way. We write at first because it's fun. And then we realize that others would gladly pay to be entertained for a bit with our words. And then we go from there, turning passion to profit.

*But looking back now, after going through the writing and selling "process" multiple times, what would you do differently? What do you wish you would have known right from the beginning?*

If someome were to come to you and wipe away all of your previous words, every single one of them (painful to imagine, right?), and you had to start all over again from the beginning. How would you go about it?

Joe


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for... But if I could start over, I'd save all the money I spent on my first book (contests, giveaways, blog tours, ads), until I had at least one more book out. All the false starts and bumps, only to plummet back to the bottom because I had nothing else for the reader to read was a complete waste. (Well, not complete waste... I did get some great reviews--but no ranking stability).


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

You know, I don't think I'd actually do things much differently.  About the only dumb thing I've done is pay for more hosting than I needed - but, that's because I rarely blog at the moment.  So, that's less about what I shouldn't have done, and more about what, in hindsight, was less useful due to the choices I made subsequently.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2014)

Zelah Meyer said:


> You know, I don't think I'd actually do things much differently. About the only dumb thing I've done is pay for more hosting than I needed - but, that's because I rarely blog at the moment. So, that's less about what I shouldn't have done, and more about what, in hindsight, was less useful due to the choices I made subsequently.


Everything is a learning experience, but I wish I had entered the world of indie writing earlier.


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## EllenWaite (Dec 4, 2013)

I'd have started sooner.


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## Judy Powell (Sep 25, 2011)

I would have started working on a mailing list from day one.  

BTW, thanks for starting this thread.  It's a great way for those getting started to learn from others' mistakes.


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## dotx (Nov 4, 2010)

Just wished I'd started this sooner. And written that first novel faster. I agonized over it for so long, and there really was no need for it. 

Other than that, like Zelah, I actually don't think I would change much.


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## JoeMack (Jan 20, 2013)

You guys, rock!


So far, the general consensus would be:

1. Start publishing sooner.
2. Create a mailing list from day one.

Man, having a mailing list would be ideal. Everytime you came out with a new title, you wouldn't have to wait for readers to find out. You could just tell them about it.  I like that idea. I have done it a little with Twitter, but email may be better.



Joe


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## Natasha Holme (May 26, 2012)

I would have had three books ready to go, rather than just the one.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I think I did the publishing/marketing stuff right (including, as others have said, publishing three books at once).

The main thing I wish I could do is go back in time and tell my Sept-Dec 2012 self to relax and enjoy it. That my sales wouldn't go away once everyone found out THE TRUTH. That this is a journey with ups and downs, and the point is to learn from every step. That every book is a different experience to write, and having it feel hard and scary doesn't mean the book is bad and won't sell, just perhaps that the emotion comes from a deeper place. That not everyone will like every book. That no hill or valley is all that big a deal in hindsight. 

I'm still working on all that, BTW, but with a little more perspective.


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## Bud Bane (Dec 8, 2012)

JoeMack said:


> So far, the general consensus would be:
> 
> 1. Start publishing sooner.
> 2. Create a mailing list from day one.


These would have been my first 2 as well, and I would add I'd have begun fostering relationships with other writers here at KB and elsewhere in my genre sooner as well, especially those with their own mailing lists. I'm not sure how prevalent the practice is among writers, but "ad swapping" is pretty much Internet Marketing 101. Where 2 or more marketers (writers in this case) promote each other's products (books) to their lists. A zero cost, simple, effective way to grow the customer base (readerships) for all. I see this as possibly the most effective tactic for writers in smaller and less active genres especially, but useful in any genre really, and far better ROI for time investment than most other things I see a lot of writers doing online in my opinion.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

I would have kept going back in 2011 rather than giving up. I released a zombie book in January 2011 that was a bust and had not inspiration to go on. If only I had known about Kboards back then...I tried again in Dec. 2012 and found more success. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if I'd written ten more books.

I also wouldn't have shied away from dropping dough on my book for professional editing. I thought I was good enough to do it on my own (haha), but my books drastically improved in quality once I hired a copy-editor.

Also, I would have started my mailing list from day 1 and would have used some promo sites to make book 1's launch much better, and followed more quickly with a sequel rather than waiting four months.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

I wish I'd set all of the "business stuff" up first, so I could better focus on just writing, going forward.


Website
Facebook
Twitter
Mailing List(!!)
Accounts on all the distribution sites, Goodreads, rafflecopter, etc.

Then I would write a series three novels and one prequel novella while slowly building a market base through Facebook and Twitter by way of promoting other authors, and loosely talking about what I was working on with the occasional teaser. While building this marketing base and writing the stories, I'd start acquiring beta readers to share the books with, so I had reader feedback while they were being written. The beta readers would be people from my target market--not friends & family.

Once all four of those products were ready (edited, cover art, blurb, etc), I would use any tools available to me (goodreads, other bloggers, etc) to get no fewer than 400 ARCs--OF EACH BOOK--out to people in exchange for reviews. Then, I'd put the novella, FOR FREE, on Smashwords (pushed over to B&N), Kobo, and Apple to get it price matched ASAP. While getting it price matched, I'd start a blog tour for the whole series and release the first book at a usual price. Two weeks later (and after being pice matched!) I'd release the second, and two weeks later I'd release the third.

All the while doing various marketing efforts, and continuing to write the next book in the series (or possibly starting a new series--depending on reader interest).


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## ElleChambers (Nov 5, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> I wish I'd set all of the "business stuff" up first, so I could better focus on just writing, going forward.
> 
> 
> Website
> ...


This. I did all of this stuff after the fact and it's not been very effective.

I would have built up my online presence first, stopped wasting my time writing fanfic in 2010 and wrote more original stuff, and started publishing in 2011. The only problem with that is, I was broke in 2010-11 so I'm not sure I would have had the money for pro covers and things like that. And considering that my Photoshop skills are subpar at best, my covers would have been horrendous. So maybe it's a good thing I waited after all...

But I agree with David S. - I should have come here before publishing. It would have saved me from making a lot of costly mistakes.


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## Octavia Wildwood (Jan 10, 2014)

A lot of thoughts occurred to me as I tried to answer this.  I'd have started sooner.  I'd have written more and procrastinated less.  I'd have written a series far sooner.  I'd have made a mailing list right from the getgo.  I'd have paid closer attention to what was charting instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.  When something wasn't working I would have moved on to the next thing instead of trying in vain to ressurect the dead.

But at the same time I feel like luck and timing play a big part in what we do.  The path I chose led me here and the last few weeks have been a rollercoaster in the best way imaginable.  Maybe if any one thing had been different I'd have ended up in a different spot.  So maybe I wouldn't change anything at all.


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## Dee J. Stone (Jan 28, 2013)

I'd probably write my entire series before publishing the first one.


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## AriadneW (Feb 16, 2013)

I would have started much sooner.

I have several regrets, but try not to dwell on them as I think if I'd done those things differently, there would be other things I would have done and not be happy about. I try not to think about it, but I have learned a lot this past year.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Here's another thread like this, just for more reading pleasure!
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,162595.0.html

I, too, wish I had started this back in 2009 or whenever KDP came about.

I wish I had listened to everyone who said to hire a graphic designer to make covers for my dog aliens books. Those covers are finally being created now, but I missed out on a year of better sales being stubborn and not paying for them.


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## JL Bryan (Aug 10, 2010)

I agree with those who say making a mailing list sooner.  Also, I wouldn't have indulged in so many standalone titles before I had two or three series out.


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## SLGray (Dec 21, 2013)

I'm with, oh, everyone. I'd have started down the indie road sooner and not bothered with small e-houses who didn't do anything for me. Of course, I started there before indie started being anything like an acceptable option.

So maybe I'll just say I would have started in 2011 instead of 2013. Here to stay now, though.


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## AmberDa1 (Jul 23, 2012)

I would have taken my friend's advice and started sooner instead of spending that extra time submitting like crazy and waiting...and waiting...


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

Oh, this is an intriguing thread. The first thing that comes to mind is that if I had it to do all over again (I've been writing for 30 years & publishing novels for 20), I wouldn't have wasted five years working with inadequate agents who got me nowhere.

Debra


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

My list:

1) MAILING LIST!!! Single biggest mistake of my career
2) Hire an editor right out of the gate - this is major, IMO
3) Pro-Cover art - at least premades
4) Got my butt in gear sooner - my first book took decades to write
5) Come straight to these forums


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Start building a mailing list much, much earlier and pay more attention to which advertisers had a decent ROI.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

I would have stopped this short story obsession and gone straight to novels.    While people really have responded positively to my work, short stories, at least the way I write them, are very hard sells. There's more to life than money, but still, it's fun to sell stories.

I know serials have been a success for some, but there is a difference between a short and a serial.

While books are being sold at .$99 it's hard to sell shorts at the same price. I wish I could adjust my price to $.49, the same as Kindle Shorts.

But none of that is in my control. What I write is.  It should have been novels from the get go.

Still, I'm so very happy that I live in this new world. And I have a novel in the works.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

So, yeah, I have ideas.

And this could happen. Let's say I signed an trad deal, then the trad books tanked, but my name was locked up for another seven years.

I'd have to start over.

And so this is what I'd do, assuming I only had about $200 to spend, but knowing I had to spend at least that much for my domain, my cover reveal, and my cover art.

1. Find a pen name that is easy to spell, simple, has .com available and no confusion with other actual authors.
2. Start a very simple free blog on blogger, then buy the $10 a year domain and point to it.
3. Start a Facebook page and talk on it as though I had legions of fans. Set up my free Mailchimp with zero subscribers.
4. Write two books in the hottest category there is -- romance, new adult, or erotic romance. If I loved sci fi or fantasy or race cars or baseball, I would still put those things IN my book, and still LOVE what I'm writing, but I'd put them in the framework of the better selling categories.
5. Go to Amazon, see what covers and blurb styles are in the top 100 and start putting together covers and blurbs that fit the categories, that are what readers would expect.
6. Go to Goodreads and get that blurb up, NO COVER YET, put a future date on it, and start a paperback giveway to end a week after the date I want the first book to come out.
7. Keep blogging every couple weeks and posting every couple days to my nonexistent fans.
8. Schedule a cover reveal at the cheapest place I could find that would get me at least 50.
9. Set up a Rafflecopter to go with the cover reveal so I could start getting Facebook fans and mail list subscribers.
10. When I get the cover reveal list, I'd offer an ARC to all those people for reviews.
11. When people started liking my FB page for the contest, I'd start interacting with them. I'd send out emails as though I had millions of fans, and not ten people only trying to win a prize. I'd do excerpts and offer a prize for sharing a graphic of my book with a quote on it.
12. As release day approached, I would nudge my ARC readers, let them know that reviewers of this book would be get ARCs of book 2, and hint at the next book. I'd let them know they could offer a prize of a free ebook if they liked.
13. On release day, I'd be at my computer, sending out an email, commenting, sharing, thanking and interacting with anyone who participated.

Then I would immediately start the whole process again for book 2, which should be ready, and see if I could build on it. I'd release about four weeks apart, before the first group could forget about me.

I would also:

14. Drink. A lot.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

TexasGirl said:


> 8. Schedule a cover reveal at the cheapest place I could find that would get me at least 50.


Hey, Texas--thank you! Bookmarking this.

I'm ignorant about #8. Could you explain? Are you paying to advertise a cover reveal?


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

Yeah, I'd have started sooner, and I would have gotten the Lord of the Exchequer to lend me the money out of savings so I could have illustrated versions right off the bat.

and I'd have gotten my mailing list up from the beginning and the web site.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

It's funny this thread is here, because in so many ways, I *am* starting over...

In 2012 and 2013 I went through a couple big life upsets and a lot of health problems (which apparently aren't quite over, thank you pneumonia and bronchitis) and wasn't able to write much or publish much.  From where I stood in 2011 (right at the 1k a month threshold) to where I ended up in 2013 (lucky to pull 100+ a month) was a big long slide.

Things I'm doing that I should have done/would have been doing the last two years (and should have been doing since July 2010 when I first started self-publishing):

1) Writing a series. Picking one series in one genre and sticking it out for at least 5 books.
1.5) Doing #1 again at least twice more.
2) Mailing list.
3) A marketing plan.
4) Call to action/review in back-matter, making sure to list/link other books of mine (I just spent the last few days updating over 30 files).


I don't think the last few years have been a total waste, at least. I've learned a lot about genre branding, cover art, writing blurbs, studying hundreds of successful indies whose ideas I want to experiment with and who I've learned a ton from.  I managed to get into the ACX game pretty early and that has saved my income a little. I've learned a lot about craft though probably not as much as if I'd kept writing 400k+ a year.  

I just feel like I've slid down the mountain and am finally seeing that I tried to climb the steep side while there were perfectly good switchbacks on the side.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Casper Bogart said:


> Hey, Texas--thank you! Bookmarking this.
> 
> I'm ignorant about #8. Could you explain? Are you paying to advertise a cover reveal?


In categories where covers are KING (romance, fantasy, sci fi), a cover reveal starts your branding and gets you introduced to bloggers who can help push your book when it actually comes out. It builds relationships. It also sets you up to gain new fans via contests so that when your book does come out, you have someone to talk to.

There are tons of tour companies that do cover reveals. They basically have a network of bloggers hungry for content. Some of these blogs have only a few followers, others have lots. The tour guide feeds their network your info to create an easy post for those bloggers, who want to keep interactions with their readers high by offering giveaways and showing them new books. Some popular ones are Xpresso, Bewitching, Goddess Fish

If you are just starting out, it's invaluable.


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## Sycro (Jan 19, 2014)

To echo what a lot of other people have said:

1. Mailing list. A link to a sign up form should be at the back of EVERY book.
2. Copy editors. They're worth every penny. 

But also: 

3. Sticking to my own process. 
4. Staying off the internet. Procrastination is killer.


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## JaroldWilliams (Jan 9, 2014)

I am the master of "If I could only go back and do it all over".

I would start writing fiction in college. I had an English prof tell me I need to become a writer. But did I listen...nooooo. I tried EVERYTHING else, then in my 60's I launch a writing career.

I would find Hugh Howey before he made it big and hang out with him...picking his brain for all it is worth.

I would invent the legal thriller genre before John Grisham stopped pooping yellow.

Oh, well...do overs only happen in some sporting events.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

I put up Book #1 in 2012, with the idea to release #2 in 2013 – due to a combination of factors, this didn’t happen…so I pretty much asked myself this question, and came to the decision just to start again.

So I’m holding off from any new releases until October of this year, so I can have a stack of covers, editing, shorts and novellas all prepped so that I can aim for monthly content moving forward; and so far (even though it’s only January) it seems to be working.

By the time October rolls around, I intend to have the following done:
*Three novels complete, edited, with covers, blurbs, etc.
*At least three novellas.
*All the business stuff sorted out.
*Contracts for the “expanded universe” authors I intend on bringing into the world next year.

All in all, it seemed like a better idea than releasing one thing here and one thing there – with this approach, I should always be in the “new release” charts, and with a rolling advertising budget, I’m hoping to have a steady trickle of sales, which will grow the more releases I get out.


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## 57280 (Feb 20, 2012)

TexasGirl said:


> In categories where covers are KING (romance, fantasy, sci fi), a cover reveal starts your branding and gets you introduced to bloggers who can help push your book when it actually comes out. It builds relationships. It also sets you up to gain new fans via contests so that when your book does come out, you have someone to talk to.
> 
> There are tons of tour companies that do cover reveals. They basically have a network of bloggers hungry for content. Some of these blogs have only a few followers, others have lots. The tour guide feeds their network your info to create an easy post for those bloggers, who want to keep interactions with their readers high by offering giveaways and showing them new books. Some popular ones are Xpresso, Bewitching, Goddess Fish
> 
> If you are just starting out, it's invaluable.


Thanks for this info, Texas! I appreciate your kindness, (and BTW, I bought your book today! Good luck pushing those numbers up! )


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

TexasGirl said:


> So, yeah, I have ideas.
> 
> And this could happen. Let's say I signed an trad deal, then the trad books tanked, but my name was locked up for another seven years.
> 
> ...


OK, you _really_ need to start a post of your own with this info on it, but expanded!
This is like gold dust to a lot of us.
I've been on this forum almost a year and have learned most of this from info here and there, but this is like a proper list of all the things I should be doing but I'm not...
I'd really like to see the re-write of this list, not of what you would have done but in the format of what can be done for upcoming books. Would all of them still apply?
I'd like to know more about ARC's (I'm guessing they are advanced copies? What format?) How long does that mean you are holding off from publishing or are they 'not quite ready' versions? That sort of info.
I have never seen a $10 domain, or is that just the name but no website?
I didnt know you could put a book on Goodreads before you finished it. When you say doing a giveaway in advance of release, how does that work because dont goodreads require an ISBN to allow it? What if you already had the first in a series out - would you do the giveaway for the first one or the new one?
I know nothing about Rafflecoptor, but will go and look it up. Can you really get 50 fans from doing a cover reveal? When you say then offer them ARCs, do you mean people signed up to your mailing list?
I have so many questions, I cant be the only one, this post needs a thread to cover them all! LOL
p.s. Thanks Texasgirl for writing it!
p.p.s. Which drink? I'm buying


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Stella Wilkinson said:


> I'd like to know more about ARC's (I'm guessing they are advanced copies? What format?) How long does that mean you are holding off from publishing or are they 'not quite ready' versions? That sort of info.


Yes, advance copies. I do PDF, Kindle, and ePub and I send what they ask for. Mine are fully copy edited and ready to go, just with a special cover that says ARC across the front.



> I have never seen a $10 domain, or is that just the name but no website?


Yes, you can buy just the URL and have it point to a free blogger site. Later, when you have money, you can move your free blogger content to your real domain and pay more money for hosting. Technically you don't have to buy the domain, but it's a good idea to lock it in as soon as you can.



> I didnt know you could put a book on Goodreads before you finished it. When you say doing a giveaway in advance of release, how does that work because dont goodreads require an ISBN to allow it?


Go to CreateSpace and start your book and get your ISBN. Then just don't finish the process until you are ready.



> What if you already had the first in a series out - would you do the giveaway for the first one or the new one?


I always give them the option of taking book one OR book two when they win, in case they are new to the series.



> I know nothing about Rafflecoptor, but will go and look it up. Can you really get 50 fans from doing a cover reveal? When you say then offer them ARCs, do you mean people signed up to your mailing list?


If you can't get 50 fans from a cover reveal Rafflecopter, you picked the wrong tour company. I get on average 300. I offer ARCs to the bloggers who hosted the reveal, as a way of thanking them and hoping they will read/review. I follow up with them when I have buy links as a reminder.



> I have so many questions, I cant be the only one, this post needs a thread to cover them all! LOL
> p.s. Thanks Texasgirl for writing it!
> p.p.s. Which drink? I'm buying


I was very lucky that people on KBs answered MY questions when I came here in 2011 with hat in hand.

Amaretto sours, people, always the amaretto sour.


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

Here's a quick question for anyone. I keep seeing mention of giveaways during these tours. What type of things are given away exactly?


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

I would have started sooner.  I wasted ten years trying to get a traditional publisher because I wanted the validity.  Honestly, all it did was hold me back from writing more quickly.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

Patrick Szabo said:


> Here's a quick question for anyone. I keep seeing mention of giveaways during these tours. What type of things are given away exactly?


Ebooks, paperbacks, small items of swag like bookmarks; often a first prize/large prize is a Kindle or an Amazon gift card.


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

Rin said:


> Ebooks, paperbacks, small items of swag like bookmarks; often a first prize/large prize is a Kindle or an Amazon gift card.


AH okay. So something definitely book related. I had an idea for something NOT book related as giveaways but I may have to change my thinking on that a bit.


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

Patrick Szabo said:


> AH okay. So something definitely book related. I had an idea for something NOT book related as giveaways but I may have to change my thinking on that a bit.


Patrick,
It doesn't have to be book related. On one of my giveaways I had 1100 people sign up to win a fairly inexpensive leather bracelet. I doubled my FB and Twitter followers with that bracelet. I couldn't believe it!
If its free... People want it!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I've read NOT to do books, because then people will wait to see if they've won rather than buying your book. (And by the time they haven't won, will have forgotten about your book.)

I mostly see people doing gift cards.

I did some of these contests, but abandoned them, because I suspected that the Facebook "fans" I got that way weren't really engaged. They just clicked the "Like" button to enter a contest. I thought that it was better to grow that base more organically. For me, I think that's been a better decision. (I do seem to have higher engagement on my Facebook posts than some others have reported, without "boosting" any of my posts.) I think it's a quality/quantity deal. At least that's my own suspicion. 

I do, however, do book tours and cover reveals. Not for every book, but I agree. Great way to get some reviews and some notice out there in the big blog world. (Especially in Romance.)


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

L.L. Akers said:


> If its free... People want it!


Free is best!



Rosalind James said:


> I did some of these contests, but abandoned them, because I suspected that the Facebook "fans" I got that way weren't really engaged. They just clicked the "Like" button to enter a contest. I thought that it was better to grow that base more organically. For me, I think that's been a better decision.


The awesome thing with Rafflecopter though, is that you don't have to have a +like as a condition, you can pick your own "tasks".


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

My current giveaways as examples.

http://deannaroy.com/2014/01/a-bonanza-of-give-aways-and-contests-in-honor-of-forever-loved/

The smartest thing to do is go in with other authors on Rafflecopters as you share fans and cut costs. 10 authors donate $5 and you have a $50 prize and 10X the exposure.

I have two mail lists: one for organic subscribers and one for Rafflecopter/prize entrants.

You know what?

Click rate is within 3% of each other -- 45% for prizes and 48% organic.

I use affiliates to see sales. I sold 1 book for every 8 subscribers on my organic and 1 book for every 15 subscribers on my entries.

Both very respectable, especially assuming the prize people also like me on Facebook since both items were Rafflecopter entries and could have already bought from there.

I choose BOTH!


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2014)

TexasGirl said:


> In categories where covers are KING (romance, fantasy, sci fi), a cover reveal starts your branding and gets you introduced to bloggers who can help push your book when it actually comes out. It builds relationships. It also sets you up to gain new fans via contests so that when your book does come out, you have someone to talk to.
> 
> There are tons of tour companies that do cover reveals. They basically have a network of bloggers hungry for content. Some of these blogs have only a few followers, others have lots. The tour guide feeds their network your info to create an easy post for those bloggers, who want to keep interactions with their readers high by offering giveaways and showing them new books. Some popular ones are Xpresso, Bewitching, Goddess Fish
> 
> If you are just starting out, it's invaluable.


And yet another reason why I love the Kindle Boards! I pride myself on knowing a lot as a newbie, but cover reveal sites is new information for me. Thank you! 

"I'm gonna live forever 
Baby, remember my name . . . "


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

TexasGirl said:


> There are tons of tour companies that do cover reveals. They basically have a network of bloggers hungry for content. Some of these blogs have only a few followers, others have lots. The tour guide feeds their network your info to create an easy post for those bloggers, who want to keep interactions with their readers high by offering giveaways and showing them new books. Some popular ones are Xpresso, Bewitching, Goddess Fish
> 
> If you are just starting out, it's invaluable.


Texas Girl, just an update:

Since the cover for Benton has already been released, I emailed Xpresso to request a Blitz tour and also to request one of their advertising spots. None of my emails were answered. Therefore, I'm taking Xpresso off my list and going with the next one on my list, Goddess Fish. I hope I receive a better response from them.

Thanks for being so helpful on the Kindle Boards, and thanks for listing at least three alternatives for promotional companies. I had a few others in mind, but I wanted to start with your three recommendations first.

Jolie


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

L.L. Akers said:


> I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for... But if I could start over, I'd save all the money I spent on my first book (contests, giveaways, blog tours, ads), until I had at least one more book out. All the false starts and bumps, only to plummet back to the bottom because I had nothing else for the reader to read was a complete waste. (Well, not complete waste... I did get some great reviews--but no ranking stability).


This for sure. Other points:

1. I'd have someone else do my covers other than myself. 

2. I'd make better use of outside editing help. Namely, hire a line editor, multiple proofreaders, and one more person to do a final oops check. I did some of those, but it was a piecemeal or "after the fact" sort of effort up until my most recent book, which was done the right way from the start.

3. (and going back to the quoted text) I wouldn't have taken such a long break between book 1 and 2. I spent too much time marketing when I should have been writing.


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## cwashburn (May 20, 2013)

I used to feel a bit wimpish for only submitting to traditional publishers 11 times over 18 months compared to others who really suffered but now I'm glad I became impatient and fed up.  I should have skipped the 18 months' delay.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Read what's written on these boards, but not take them too seriously.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Joliedupre said:


> I emailed Xpresso to request a Blitz tour and also to request one of their advertising spots. None of my emails were answered. Therefore, I'm taking Xpresso off my list and going with the next one on my list, Goddess Fish. I hope I receive a better response from them.


Jolie, both of those only do romance.

It's tough finding tours for any other genre.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Jolie, both of those only do romance.
> 
> It's tough finding tours for any other genre.


I've used Reading Addiction Blog Tours for all mine. I know they do other genres besides romance, but not sure of the whole list. They're very professional and I've had a good experience.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Jolie, both of those only do romance.
> 
> It's tough finding tours for any other genre.


PS: Bloggers resent it when you don't read their guidelines, so that is probably why you didn't get any response to your emails.

We have a cross promo thread for speculative fiction (science fiction, fantasy, and horror). You are more than welcome to join it!

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,173316.0.html

We got derailed for a bit on defining who fit in and who doesn't, but we got that sorted out by page 9 or so...


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Cherise Kelley said:


> We have a cross promo thread for speculative fiction (science fiction, fantasy, and horror). You are more than welcome to join it!
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,173316.0.html
> 
> We got derailed for a bit on defining who fit in and who doesn't, but we got that sorted out by page 9 or so...


I never knew that existed... hmmm.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

I wouldn't have waited 17 years to self-publish. If I had known that I could have found a local printing press and go for it, I would have done it.

The other day, I found out some of my writer friends had self-published back in the 1990s way before Amazon was born.


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## rjspears (Sep 25, 2011)

Like so many of the others, I would have started sooner.  I was writing away for three years, considering going the traditional route, before I even looked at going indie.  I wish I hadn't wasted those years, but there's nothing to be done, but proceed from here.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> I've used Reading Addiction Blog Tours for all mine. I know they do other genres besides romance, but not sure of the whole list. They're very professional and I've had a good experience.


Thank you, Rosalind. I contacted them.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Jolie, both of those only do romance.
> 
> It's tough finding tours for any other genre.


If you're referring to erotica, I don't write erotica anymore. Benton is paranormal romance.


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

I would have:

A. Employed people to write books for me and pretend i wrote them
B. Write false reviews and pretend they were real
C. Pay for false twitter and Facebook fans and pretend they were real
D. Tell everyone I sold 500 books a day and pretend it was real
E. Convince myself that writing 1 book a month was actually good writing.
F.  Spend my time answering forum questions about what I would do if i had to start from scratch by giving them false answers, but pretend it was real.

LOL


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> PS: Bloggers resent it when you don't read their guidelines, so that is probably why you didn't get any response to your emails.


As I indicated in a previous post, Benton is paranormal romance. I read the guidelines before I contacted Xpresso. My understanding is that Xpresso does accept NA/paranormal romance. If the owner doesn't want to work with my book, then contact me and tell me so.

Xpresso is the only site I've contacted so far, and I won't be contacting them again.

I have not contacted Goddess Fish as of yet. That's next on my list.

Jolie


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> I've used Reading Addiction Blog Tours for all mine. I know they do other genres besides romance, but not sure of the whole list. They're very professional and I've had a good experience.


Rosalind, you're one of the people on Kindle Boards who I respect - not only for your attitude, but also because of your approach to indie. Thanks for the Reading Addiction Blog Tours recommendation. I'll add them to my list.

BTW, once I find a promotional site I like, I intend to work with them for ALL my books. I invest in my indie career, and I'm not afraid to spend the money I need to spend. In short, any promotional site I go with will get a good customer. So if one doesn't want my business, I'll gladly find a promotional site that does. 

Jolie


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## hunterone (Feb 6, 2013)

Joliedupre said:


> If you're referring to erotica, I don't write erotica anymore. Benton is paranormal romance.


Why don't you write erotica anymore?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Joliedupre said:


> Benton is paranormal romance.


Oh! You might rethink the cover then. Just based on the cover, I thought it was straight up dystopian. Please know I really am trying to be helpful and not picking on you. Because I love them and I'm grateful to the friend who did them for free, I've held onto these ineffective covers I have on my Dog Aliens books for more than a year. Finally now I see sense and I am having them professionally designed to reader expectations for their genre (fun dog stories).

ETA: The covers I have now ARE those new ones.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Oh! You might rethink the cover then. Just based on the cover, I thought it was straight up dystopian. Please know I really am trying to be helpful and not picking on you. Because I love them and I'm grateful to the friend who did them for free, I've held onto these ineffective covers I have on my Dog Aliens books for more than a year. Finally now I see sense and I am having them professionally designed to reader expectations for their genre (fun dog stories).


You can pick on me all you want. 

Benton won't be published until June. If it doesn't sell, then I'll move on to plan B, whatever my plan B will be. Until then, I'll stick with my cover.

Jolie


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

hunterone said:


> Why don't you write erotica anymore?


I like paranormal romance better!


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Cherise Kelley said:


> Oh! You might rethink the cover then. Just based on the cover, I thought it was straight up dystopian.


I tend to agree.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

JanThompson said:


> I wouldn't have waited 17 years to self-publish. If I had known that I could have found a local printing press and go for it, I would have done it.
> 
> The other day, I found out some of my writer friends had self-published back in the 1990s way before Amazon was born.


When I started writing for publication, over 10 years ago, self-publishing (as you know) was considered taboo. That's what kept me out of it. So the people who did it anyway are people I truly admire.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Joliedupre said:


> When I started writing for publication, over 10 years ago, self-publishing (as you know) was considered taboo. That's what kept me out of it. So the people who did it anyway are people I truly admire.


Agreed! They are the brave pioneers who didn't submit to tradpub. I think self-publishers have it easy now, with indie forums like this, and community support. But back then, they went alone. Marketing was so much harder.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

I would have bult in more money from the start for interior illustrations.


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## EmilieHardie (Jan 2, 2014)

> I didnt know you could put a book on Goodreads before you finished it. When you say doing a giveaway in advance of release, how does that work because dont goodreads require an ISBN to allow it?


If you add it manually, you can go without an ISBN, at least if you list the format as a kindle book.


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

Joliedupre said:


> Rosalind, you're one of the people on Kindle Boards who I respect - not only for your attitude, but also because of your approach to indie. Thanks for the *Reading Addiction Blog Tours* recommendation. I'll add them to my list.
> 
> BTW, once I find a promotional site I like, I intend to work with them for ALL my books. I invest in my indie career, and I'm not afraid to spend the money I need to spend. In short, any promotional site I go with will get a good customer. So if one doesn't want my business, I'll gladly find a promotional site that does.
> 
> Jolie


Maybe you guys mean *Fiction Addiction Book Tours*? I've worked with Shaz there and she is wonderful and professional.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Vera Nazarian said:


> Maybe you guys mean *Fiction Addiction Book Tours*? I've worked with Shaz there and she is wonderful and professional.


Well there is one called *Reading Addiction Blog Tours* at http://readingaddictionvbt.blogspot.com/

I spoke with a Cami there and they do Spec Fec, I might give them a shot as I approach the release of book 6. I have never tried this kind of thing before so not sure about it yet.


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## Ronald McIsaac (Feb 14, 2013)

I'd be more social, because being a loner is for the birds.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

Ronald McIsaac said:


> I'd be more social, because being a loner is for the birds.


I have a near irresistible urge to make a bad Tweet pun.

Need more coffee.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

VydorScope said:


> Well there is one called *Reading Addiction Blog Tours* at http://readingaddictionvbt.blogspot.com/
> 
> I spoke with a Cami there and they do Spec Fec, I might give them a shot as I approach the release of book 6. I have never tried this kind of thing before so not sure about it yet.


I'm getting a good vibe about them. So I've decided to check them out next.  Thanks again, Rosalind, for the recommendation.


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## Sandra K. Williams (Jun 15, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Agreed! They are the brave pioneers who didn't submit to tradpub. I think self-publishers have it easy now, with indie forums like this, and community support. But back then, they went alone. Marketing was so much harder.


Compuserve had a self-publishers forum way back when.

Several self-publishing associations have existed for decades. The one here in Sacramento formed in the mid 1990s when a bunch of self-publishers started networking in their living rooms to share info on making and selling books.

Self-publishing has always been present. The stigma perhaps made some people turn their heads and pretend they couldn't see self-publishers.

*ETA:* Jan, I think you found my button!  These kids today, they know nothin' about the old days, when we had climb up hills in the freezing snow to reach the bookstores carrying printing presses on our backs. Except the common wisdom was "Bookstores are the worst places to sell your books."


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Joliedupre said:


> I'm getting a good vibe about them. So I've decided to check them out next.  Thanks again, Rosalind, for the recommendation.


I have emailed a couple times with Cami now, and so far all seems cool. She has their prior tours all up in a list so you can see what you are getting by comparing tours for books like yours they did in the past.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Joliedupre said:


> I'm getting a good vibe about them. So I've decided to check them out next.  Thanks again, Rosalind, for the recommendation.


Prompted me to go on and schedule my promo blitz for the new book, so it was good for me, too. 
Just FYI, for anybody who cares: I asked Cami, who runs the business, whether she'd recommend a full tour or a one-day blitz for me, and she said, because I already get a fair number of organic reviews, she thought a blitz would be more effective--just get the word out that I had a new book.

(It's not just the people who actually see the bloggers' page--it's the bloggers themselves who get the announcement that the tour is open for sign-up. That's where my most effective word-of-mouth has come from.)

I thought it was interesting. Makes perfect sense, don't know why I didn't see it and do it for my last book.

I scheduled the one-day blitz (50-70 blogs, I hope--for something like $40!) to occur during my big Countdown promo for the book-before-this-book (two weeks into publication, so the book will have some reviews), during what I hope will be the GIANT FEEDING FRENZY on both books!

(Hey, the power of positive thinking!)


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Please report back on your results.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

UPDATE:

Giselle, from Xpresso Book Tours, got back to me. She said my emails got stuck in her spam folder. She said Gmail usually notifies her, but she wasn't online when they came in.

She said she would love to take me on, but in her past tours/events with non contemporary NA/18+ books, she has not had much luck getting bloggers signing up for them. Most of her bloggers are YA focused, and when it comes to NA/18+ it's very genre specific.

She recommended two tour services that specialize in a wide age group and that might be better to reach my target readers:

AToMR Tours - http://atomrbookblogtours.com/

Candace's Book Promotion - http://www.candacesbookblog.com/2012/08/cbb-book-promotions-now-open-and.html

Jolie


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> Prompted me to go on and schedule my promo blitz for the new book, so it was good for me, too.
> Just FYI, for anybody who cares: I asked Cami, who runs the business, whether she'd recommend a full tour or a one-day blitz for me, and she said, because I already get a fair number of organic reviews, she thought a blitz would be more effective--just get the word out that I had a new book.
> 
> (It's not just the people who actually see the bloggers' page--it's the bloggers themselves who get the announcement that the tour is open for sign-up. That's where my most effective word-of-mouth has come from.)
> ...


Great!  I can't wait to hear how it goes for you. I bet it'll be awesome!

Jolie


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2014)

EelKat said:


> I started this career 36 years ago. In the early days my goal was traditional publish, traditional publish, and more traditional publish. I put a lot of time, energy, and money into that goal. Along the way I self-pubbed here and there. I did okay with small magazines and small press, and gained a name for myself in certain niche circles. Got into fanzines, underground pulps, and fringe indie press and took off like lightening. Started gaining a larger following in the self-pubbed arena in the late 1980s, and that took off in the mid-1990s. All the while I was still dishing out big bucks for paper and ink and boxes and stamps, while bombarding trade press with manuscripts and getting lots of reject slips from all the big houses. In 2006 I started writing non-fic articles for magazines and that became my #1 income source (and still is today). With my non-fic income supporting me, I had more time to focus on self-pubbing and started spending less time submitting MSs to the large house publishers. I didn't move into ebooks until 2013.
> 
> If I was to start over again, my #1 biggest change would be: forget traditional publishing and just dive right into to self-pubbing right from the start. Looking back I can see that right from the beginning I was always doing better (income wise) self-pubbing, than traditional pubbing. Looking back I can see that, for me, traditional publishing took a huge amount of time and money and had very little profit against what I put into it.
> 
> ...


I enjoyed reading this. 

I wish I had entered the indie world earlier, but I was younger and impressionable, and I allowed the public perception to keep me out of it. At the time, indie publishing was considered a last ditch effort reserved for those who couldn't get a publisher.

Well, I got my publisher, and I got my advance, and I got my book tour, and I got more publishers - blah, blah, blah . . . Been there, done that.

Today, I'm so looking forward to my indie life!


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

I would have started with a series and stuck to one genre instead of bouncing around.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Necroing this old thread to see if 2014 gave us any new insights!

I wish I had known KDP was coming when I was young. I could have had 100 trunk novels ready in 2008.


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## RBK (Nov 28, 2014)

blakebooks said:


> I would have started with a series and stuck to one genre instead of bouncing around.


Pretty much this.

I think its so easy to get caught up in the whole 'writing a novel' thing that the sheer thought of doing ANOTHER one seems almost impossible in the early days.


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## Sheluvspink (May 14, 2014)

Not sure if this counts but I would have finished my series instead of wasting almost a year trying to get an agent and making changes to my novel.


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## A Woman&#039;s Place Is In The Rebellion (Apr 28, 2011)

> I would have started with a series and stuck to one genre instead of bouncing around.


Definitely this. I was like the dog from 'Up' and every story idea was a squirrel.


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## rjspears (Sep 25, 2011)

I would have started earlier and finished sooner.  I started my first novel in 1999 and finished the first draft in 2007.  That book still has yet to be released.  I released my first book in 2012 and feel that was too late.

I would have built up a fund to pay for a pro-editor and one for marketing.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

Cherise Kelley said:


> I wish I had known KDP was coming when I was young. I could have had 100 trunk novels ready in 2008.


This and the mailing list for me. If I'd known KDP was in the future when I stopped writing in the 90's (after deciding pursuing traditional publishing was too much aggravation for too little reward), I wouldn't have had 100 finished books, but I'd have had more than the 2.5 I had in late 2009 when I realized the opportunity Amazon was offering.

If I'd set up a mailing list from the get-go instead of in summer of 2013, I'd undoubtedly be over that supposedly magical 1,000 number by now.


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## Nicki Leigh (Aug 25, 2011)

I wouldn't have spent 2 years querying agents when I could have taken part in the KDP boom (before it was even KDP).


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## Scott Bartlett (Apr 1, 2012)

I would have put my first eBook into KDP Select instead of going wide with it due to my lack of knowledge. I published it in early 2012, and if I'd known to put it in Select I could have cashed in on the powerhouse that Free Runs would become over the following months.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

1) write novels first, especially romance
2) jumped on Select like a rocket, because novels
3) started mailing list as soon as I heard about it
4) had a magic wand that kept me from having to deal with family issues, which basically stopped my writing cold for more than a year between 2012 and 2014, which means I'm starting over
5) had a time machine, so I could tell my younger self to keep writing, building that big back list instead of letting life (mostly a horrid marriage) interfere with the writing, because ebooks are coming! Self-publishing is coming!


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## Silly Writer (Jul 15, 2013)

she-la-ti-da said:


> 1) write novels first, especially romance
> 2) jumped on Select like a rocket, because novels
> 3) started mailing list as soon as I heard about it
> 4) had a magic wand that kept me from having to deal with family issues, which basically stopped my writing cold for more than a year between 2012 and 2014, which means I'm starting over
> 5) had a time machine, so I could tell my younger self to keep writing, building that big back list instead of letting life (mostly a horrid marriage) interfere with the writing, because ebooks are coming! Self-publishing is coming!


Number 4 for me. I let a family situation keep me from finishing my 3rd novel of one series. I have been able to put out 5 books of a serial in a different genre...shorter work... But it's been almost a year since I published book 2 of my main series, still working on book 3


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I'd have been willing to rebrand my covers a lot earlier.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Few things I would've done.

First off, start a series right from the start and focus on that. When I started, I started with a stand-alone novel. Then another. It wasn't until my third book that I started a series. And then the fourth book was in a completely different series. 

Second, come up with a look for the series covers and apply it to future books.

Third, set up a mailing list right away and put back-matter links into my books.

Fourth, start off with digital right away. I started publishing in 2007, before the Kindle revolution, so it was pretty much only POD at that point. And when ebooks finally did come around, it took me a while to start putting out my stuff in digital formats.

Fifth, develop a writing schedule. Not "when I have time," not "when I feel like it," not "when the muse strikes me."


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## Lehane (Apr 7, 2014)

This thread is oodles of fun when you look back and see people like No Cat posting about "starting over" and are now in very good, successful places in their writing world. What a lovely thing to see.


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## J.T. Williams (Aug 7, 2014)

TexasGirl said:


> 6. Go to Goodreads and get that blurb up, NO COVER YET, put a future date on it, and start a paperback giveway to end a week after the date I want the first book to come out.


Hmm, is this common? I'm planning to do a Goodreads giveaway after my release and this is an intriguing idea to build up interest.


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## Christine Tate (Feb 24, 2014)

I would have started marketing as soon as my first book was released.  Being new to the publishing world, I took the field of dreams approach thinking "if I write it, they will come", that somehow the magic of the internet would just kick in once the book was posted and available through Amazon.  Once I realized that simply having it available online wasn't going to do anything, I started actively marketing the series.  Sales took off almost immediately and have been steadily growing ever since.  If there's one piece of advice I can give to new writers, it's market, market, market!


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## Kathryn Meyer Griffith (May 6, 2013)

If I could go back...hmmm. If I went back 43 years when I first started writing I couldn't change much because the writing/publishing world was so different then (maybe I wouldn't do everything an agent, publisher or editor told me to do- they weren't gods as I'd believed they were) BUT if I could go back just 5 years I WOULDN'T SIGN THOSE 15 BOOK CONTRACTS with my last publisher. It's agony waiting for their rights to return to me so I can self-publish them. I feel as if I've wasted so many things being with a publisher.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2015)

1) Build channels I control 100% i.e. email website blog. Not waste any time on things like Twitter, FB, other people's ecosystems.

2) Focus 80% on what worked for me. Example: Time of day when writing or working was best.

3) not get swayed by temporary rewards.

4) Cherish the victories.

5) Not look at success of the big dogs. Focus only on what's the best I can do.

6) Not get disappointed or emotional when hitting walls and roadblocks.

7) Don't expect others to help unless it helps them in some way. When people help selflessly, to appreciate it and say thank you.

 Keep a daily account fo what worked and what didn't. Also of work done each day.

9) Avoid all busy work and focus on THE ONE THING that's going to lead to big success. At some stages it was better quality of work. At some stages it was more intelligent marketing and startegy.

10) Be disciplined and have a proper schedule.

11) HAve time off for myself and to recharge. Not kill myself physically with stretches of working too much and stressing too much.

********

Biggest would be to work on real things. To build real castles. not to build sandcastles on other people's beaches which they can knock down or the sea can wash away.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2015)

If I had to abandon my current author name and start over under a new pen name, I would:

1) write longer books.
2) push each book a lot harder in the first 90 days after publication.

Other than that, I would more or less do what I'm doing right now.

If I could hop in a time machine and give my 2011 self some advice, I would tell him to completely ignore Dean Wesley Smith and to take Kris Rusch's blog posts with a huge grain of salt. And knowing my 2011 self, he would probably say "screw you" and learn things the hard way.


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## going going gone (Jun 4, 2013)

Nothing, actually. 

And you know why? Because I lurked/read here and on another large indie group and read various blogs for a full year before I started. Thanks to all who share their experience on threads like these and help the beginners avoid making the same errors.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Funny, I just started yet another pen name this January, and looking over my list from last year, that's pretty much exactly how I did it, other than doing a release blitz instead of a cover reveal. Now, of course, I had the benefit of telling over 10,000 subscribers about my new name. So sure, this "debut" author sold 3K in the first 24 hours -- please remember when you see new authors hitting it out of the park, that they probably aren't actually new. In this case, I wanted to rebrand in romantic suspense, so I started a new name.

From January 2014



> And so this is what I'd do, assuming I only had about $200 to spend, but knowing I had to spend at least that much for my domain, my cover reveal, and my cover art.
> 
> 1. Find a pen name that is easy to spell, simple, has .com available and no confusion with other actual authors.
> 2. Start a very simple free blog on blogger, then buy the $10 a year domain and point to it.
> ...


Almost forgot:

14. Drink. A lot.

STILL DO THAT! I was just as big a nervous wreck two weeks ago when I released my first book under this new pen name as I was four years ago when I released my very first book.


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## Indiecognito (May 19, 2014)

I'd probably outline more, too. 

Other than that, I wouldn't change anything--so much of what I did early on was to find out what works for me specifically, and as with life, you learn from your mistakes. I'm sort of thankful that I made a pile of em.


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## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

I'd have got custom covers organised right from the start instead of faffing around with the amateurish efforts. But with fifteen books in my main series the cost made me keep backing away.

I've now bitten the bullet and have asked Nicole of covershotcreations.com to take on the job after being let down last year by another cover designer.

She starts the first one in the series at the beginning of Feb and I've just booked dates for the next three, also in Feb.

Can't wait!


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