# For Fiction Writers Earning a Full Time Income...



## noodle24 (Dec 11, 2012)

If you're a fiction writer earning a minimum of $3K/month in book royalties, I'd love to hear your answers to the following...

1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?

2) What books or resources would you most recommend?

3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?

4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I actually don't always make that much money a month, but I am living off my writing income, so...

1. Luck. (You do have to put yourself out to there to get lucky, of course. You can't have a lucky break if you never finish your book, or if you never publish it. But while showing up* is all it takes to get lucky, it doesn't mean you _will _get lucky.)

2. Holly Lisle for writing advice. Kboards for marketing advice.

3. Myth: "Once you make it, it's easy." It's not. It's very stressful, because--even if you're making a lot of money--you never know when the bottom will fall out. No one stays at the top of the lists forever. Your income will fluctuate, sometimes wildly.

When you first start out, you'll think that because you have so much more time, it will be easy to write more each day. It won't be. You'll naturally want to write the same amount you did before you quit your job. You must fight this and ease your way upwards if you want to produce at a high rate.

Wastes of time? This will undoubtedly be personal. There will be things you're doing that you don't actually *need* to do, but you'll have to experiment to see what they are. In my case, I learned that linking to all my books at the back of my books was a waste of time. But it works for some people, so... *shrug*

4) -2011, my book Breathless slowly grew until it broke out. Simply from Amazon algos. It happened like that back then. The lists were very stable. I kept it up with permafree and promos.
-2013, my book Slow Burn just took off right after publication. I compared it to Beautiful Disaster in the description, and it went gangbusters. I made five figures off it in a month. No promo. (I've since tried comparing my books to other popular things in the description... no dice.) 
-I'm having a great month right now due to the fact that I was lucky enough to be able to participate in a multi-author boxed set that's hanging out in the Top 100 right now and has made the USA Today Bestseller List. Even so, the follow-through on the other books in the series (first book in the series is in the boxed set) isn't mind-blowing. However, I'm probably on track to make $3K this month. 

*Some people are going to want to argue that you'll increase your chances if you write a "good" book. But there's no way to define good. Seriously. Just try and see if you can get any kind of consensus. Other people will say that you'll increase your chances if you write what people want, and this may be true, but it might not either. I know that I'm a person who tried to write what people wanted, didn't sell like crazy, and then blamed myself for not actually writing what people wanted. But seriously... how do you predict what people want? And is there any way to prove that the people who write "to the market" actually have insight into the market? It's confirmation bias, you know? I kind of think there's no way to know that either. THUS... luck.


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## martyns (May 8, 2014)

I've earned more than that in one month - but I don't generally earn that much.

1. Tenacity. You need to muster the attitude of 'I haven't failed until I've stopped trying'

2. I really don't know, I've learned what little I know about publishing and writing from doggedly pursuing every information source I could find.

3. Myth: 'You should only write when you feel inspired' If you took this attitude you'd never finish anything. You have to write, even if it means throwing what you wrote away or saving it for another project. You need to get into the habit of writing.

4. I can't say - I don't see myself as successful or as having had a breakthrough yet. I'll consider myself successful when I regularly bring home $5000 a month solely from writing. I'm a long way of that, I don't even know if that is possible, but even if I did earn that it would still be doubtful I'd want to quit my day job.


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## 75910 (Mar 16, 2014)

1 - writing in a genre that sells and writing* A LOT.*

2 - Save The Cat by Blake Snyder. Really helped me plot out my stories. And when I plot, I can write faster. (See #1)

3 - Biggest waste of time? The internet. It's the giant sucking sound you hear at all hours of the day. Biggest myth? I agree with Valerie. That things will get easier. I work 7 days a week. 10 hours a day. Luckily my husband and son are pretty independent and can do laundry and vacuum.

4 - I don't know. I really don't. My first 14 books (under another pen name) were with a small digital press. I think that might have given me a leg up as they had a loyal reader base. Also while I was with them, I did two series collections with some other writers which helped expand my reader base. Any time you have an opportunity to cross promote with other writers in your genre it is usually a good thing.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

noodle24 said:


> If you're a fiction writer earning a minimum of $3K/month in book royalties, I'd love to hear your answers to the following...
> 
> 1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?
> 
> ...


You'll get a lot of different answers depending upon genre among other things, but my experiences are yours for what they're worth.

1. Write at least four full length novels in a series. Mine was space opera. Don't promote them until all four are out. I didn't do it that way, but if I had to do it over I would. When book four is out, make book one permafree and wait for good reviews. Once you have the reviews, Bookbub the hell out of book 1. In the meantime, get on all channels direct and join ACX. Spend a ton of money and get all four books into Audible and iTunes. PROFIT.

2. I've read lots of books over the years and most had useful stuff in them, but honestly? I can't recommend any over others. The last one I read was Write, Publish, Repeat but it really didn't break new ground. It just backed up what I had already learned from doing it and listening to others at kboards (and podcasts) etc Self Publishing Podcast, Rocking self publishing Podcast, Creative Penn, Self Publishing Round Table are my most listened to podcasts though there are others. Bookbub, ENT, and POI are the places for promo. Facebook is controversial but it "seems" to work for my audio right now.

3. I find the hardest part of being full time is procrastination. I thought being made redundant would let me write more, but fitting my writing in forced me to write fast and anywhere. Now I can write all day everyday, I find myself putting it off and actually writing less! One thing I have found us quality of life is hugely improved. I have a zero stress life now and my health has improved a a result. I sleep properly, eat properly, exercise and have lost almost half my body weight. I was on my way to an early grave. Now hopefully I'll have a lot of years to enjoy life.

4. Releasing book four of my better selling series was my tipping point. I had seven books out across multiple genres and series, but it was that book last Christmas that tipped me over to "safe" financially. Releasing two box sets cemented that position and I should have done it sooner. They are secondary funnels to book four and really sell book four. And the biggest financial thing was reinvesting all royalties from book four into ACX and audio. I would add that going direct in all channels is a good idea, Google especially (though a PITA) is growing fast on my royalty statement.


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## Error404 (Sep 6, 2012)

I've only been making 3k since April, but here goes:

1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?
Writing a lot of books in a eries and advertising the first book (set to perma-free) at the free sites.

2) What books or resources would you most recommend?
WC and any books written in your genre (even old ones). Also, watch movies. They can give you ideas, too. Never tried self-help writing books, so I guess it's not necessary (might help, though).

3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?
Don't ignore what's popular or your sales will (probably) languish. Mine did. For myths, you don't have to put pretty people on your cover to attract attention (at least not in YA fantasy). The biggest waste of time is the internet (except _occasional_ visits to WC).

4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?
I wrote in the popular genres of werewolf romance and YA fantasy, then got lucky with marketing at WTRAFSG and Freebooksy, respectively.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

1) Tons of hard work,  A good team (editor, cover artist etc), and some good luck never hurts

2) The Naked Truth about Self Publishing by Jana DeLeon, Lilliana Hart and a bunch of other folks.  Not so much a writing guide, but an awesome guide for shoring up the business side of things.

3) Listening to *every* "rule" about grammar, style, and "never put this in a book".  Buying "how to sell a million books" books by people who are not successful writers themselves.  Biggest myth: doing anything in this business and assuming it guarantees success.  

4) Treating my readers well. Continually striving to be a better writer / putting out high quality products.  Taking advantage of the tools the various platforms give us.  Experimenting with categories and keywords.  Never quitting.


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## Jash (Apr 4, 2013)

> If you're a fiction writer earning a minimum of $3K/month in book royalties, I'd love to hear your answers to the following...
> 1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?
> 2) What books or resources would you most recommend?
> 3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?
> 4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?


1) The ability to write for a market.
2) Amazon Bestseller and Hot New Release charts.
3) Sleeping, my family and my day job  (I'm not full time).
4) Without being specific: erotica (babysitters!), erotic romance (billionaires!), paranormal romance (werewolves!)


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I'll bite, though I'm not sure how helpful it will be. Hope so, though.

*1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?*
I don't know, because honestly, I think I just got lucky. I made more than at the day job from the first month. (I had quit the day job, crazily, a few weeks into writing the first book. That's not like me at all, but I knew I had found what I wanted to do forever, so I did. It was nuts.) But I put out my first three books at once. I didn't have a plan going in, it's just that I wrote the first book and started shopping it around, wrote the second one and shopped that, then wrote the third, over about eight months with nil results--nobody wanted them. So finally I decided to publish them myself, given that there was no other avenue open, and I decided to put them all out together, on the theory that anyone who liked the first one might want to read the others, and it was better to have them all there. I did that, and it worked really well. So maybe that, for me.

I guess I'd say, write the book, make it the very, very best you can, present it as best you can (cover, editing, formatting, and, of course, story and writing), put it out there and then follow marketing advice and try things. But mostly: write the book YOU want to write. Because no matter what, you'll have pleased yourself. The very best thing about what's happened to me is that I found out I can write books, because this isn't the hardest job ever. It's the easiest, most fun job ever, at least for me. I work a lot, but it doesn't feel like that, because I love it.

And I'll just say, I think writing about New Zealand was a huge factor in my books' success. I sure am not the best writer out there. Not by a long shot. Ironically, it's one reason I think everybody turned me down (New Zealand, not the writer thing, although come to think of it, they're both probably true!) That's why I say, write the book that speaks to you. I wrote out of my love for the country, and that's what I think sold the books.

Edited to add--Branding my covers. Huge, huge, huge. As a series, and as an author, so people can look at my books and say, "That is a Rosalind James book." And having distinctive covers in the first place. As popular as the male torso is in romance right now, if I'd had another set of dark male-torso covers, I doubt it would have worked. I write fun, feel-good books. To me, that's what my covers say. (And OK, they don't say that there's sex inside clearly enough. But they say "fun"! And if sex isn't fun, what's the point? But I digress.) Anyway--covers.

*2) What books or resources would you most recommend?*
I'm going to admit here that, although I have somewhat of a writing background (I was a marketing professional and wrote a lot of copy over the 10 years before I began fiction writing), I've never read a book or taken a writing class (of any kind, marketing writing or fiction writing), so I don't know. For me, since this is all pretty new and fragile, I think reading others' rules would have interfered with finding my own voice and style. But I was an editor, too, before, and I had a pretty good grasp of grammar and usage, and I've read a LOT of fiction in my life, and that definitely helped.

*
3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?*
I don't know, because I don't know any other full-time writers in person, and I don't really know what expectations people have. For me, the writing itself is pretty much, like I said, fun. But I'm also really used to working hard, have been working hard all my life. Also, I used to be a marketer, so making marketing decisions is pretty instinctive. And I'm in Select, so I have a lot less work to do that way.

Biggest waste of time: Worrying, obsessing over sales, reviews, and what people are saying on KBoards. I've realized that, because I can't account for my books selling, I fear that they'll suddenly stop selling--and, underneath that, I fear that I will lose whatever magic has made me able to write books. I never knew I could, until I was over 50, so it still feels pretty wonderful.

I cope with that by using blocking software while I'm working on a book, so I can't look at social media, KBoards, Amazon, etc., for hours every day. I've realized that writing makes me happy. And the only reason I worry about the sales/reviews thing is that I fear not being able to write anymore. But the two are really separate.

I'd love to be able to totally stop reading reviews. They aren't helpful--they're the most detrimental thing to my writing the book. Worse than looking at sales fluctuations. Haven't got there yet, though.
*
4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success? *
1. Being in Select: offering the first book free for 3 days in Week 1. That started things off for me. (That was Sept. 2012, though, when it was easier to get traction.)

2. BookBub picking up my book unbeknownst to me during another free promo, when they and I were pretty new, about 4 months in. That was huge. That was the breakthrough.

3. Writing my second series, which was nuts, because the NZ series was just exploding. But that brought me a new level of success and a different group of readers, and I think--I hope--as I start my third series, that I'm entering into a new, more mature phase of my career now.

Best of luck to everybody. If I could do it, it's definitely possible, because in case you haven't gathered from the above, I didn't know what I was dong.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't know - I haven't a clue what I did yet. Ask me again in a year.


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## 60911 (Jun 13, 2012)

1. Writing in a series and creating a sales funnel by any means necessary (first in series free or discounted to 99 cents, whatever it takes) that compels the reader to keep reading on in the series until it's done (this is done by gripping writing). I hate to say it cold and businesslike (but I will in order to make the point) but you need a sales funnel in order to maximize your promotional efforts you need the same customers to keep coming back. Anything less means your promotional time and dollars aren't doing you nearly as much good. 

2. David Gaughran's Let's Get Digital and Let's Get Visible. Find writers in your genre who are successful and copy what they do as best you can. Stalk them if necessary (on Amazon, their blogs, etc - not in a creepy and illegal way). 

3. The internet is most writers biggest waste of time. Do your research in advance or afterward and lock yourself off of it if need be during writing hours. Same with social media; do it when you're not in writing time. Results are all that matters as a full-time writer, so it doesn't matter if it takes ten hours a day or two to get done what you need to get done, make it happen. 

4. a) Permafree first in series. b) Massive exposure of said permafree via Bookbub ads, Pixel of Ink, E-reader News Today (those last two were a couple years ago) and c) Connecting with and personally responding to every fan I had come my way on Facebook, email and Twitter until I got to the point where I couldn't manage the fan interaction and still maintain my writing any longer. I knew their names, I knew a little bit about them when they shared things with me, and I tried to keep a dialogue going with them. I randomly sent them free books when I had a new release sometimes, and asked them about their families and lives. They became my best source of advertising and spread my books to more people than I could safely count.


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## Tristan Cruz (Apr 2, 2014)

I've always felt when I read a book that had a good story, I closed the pages and said that I would love to read more from that author - and I always did. I don't care if you are not that well-known, if the synopsis of your story sounds interesting and original, I'll read it. I take more pride in knowing I have told a really good story. If you have a passion for telling stories and people respond it, I feel after putting yourself out there and having some patience helps. Always be humble in accepting advice as well.


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

1.  Write quickly.  If you can't write quickly, learn to write quickly (and well too, obviously).  Your readers are your customers and your customers don't want to wait a year for the next book.  Write in a clearly defined genre that appeals to an obvious and existing market (no SF-fantasy-crime-romance mish moshes, not until you have a fanbase, at least).  Don't get worked up about genre size - you can sell tons of books in SF, for example.  Stop whining about how many romance books sell if that's not your genre and make sure you are focusing on your target sub-genre.  Stop looking at self-publishing as some kind of religion and make sure everything you publish is as good as you can make it.  If you can't do a professional-quality cover yourself, then get someone else to do it, for example.  Work on your blurb the entire time you are writing your book.  It is probably the most important thing you can do (other than write a good book).  Read your reviews.  That doesn't mean pander to ever whim some crackpot puts there, but many of your readers will post useful comments there.  If you are too much of a wilting flower to stand some criticism, you have a MUCH harder road ahead to succeed.  Act like a professional at ALL times.  Do not get into silly debates of any kind, at least not with your writing name.  Do not answer reviews.  Don't get worked up on luck.  Yes, there is luck in any book and how it does, but the more you put out and the better you get at it, luck shrinks as a factor.  Write series and after you have at least 3 books out start to experiment with 99 cents for the first or permafree if you want to go down that road.

2.  Read everything and discount 99% of what you read.  Take advice only from people selling more books than you (and if you are just starting, then only listen to people who are selling a LOT more than you).  The world is full of wannabe gurus, but I want to see the goods before I seriously pay attention to what someone is saying.  If someone is selling a fraction of what I am, I am highly disinclined to take their advice.

3.  Obviously, the Internet is a big time suck if you allow it to be.  As far as mistakes:  1.  Wasting time and money on ineffectual marketing/promotion (blog tours, facebook, etc.).  2.  Not paying attention to what your readers want in books.  You can get arrogant when you're a star, but if you want to get there you need to cultivate that fanbase.  3.  Not building mailing lists.  4.  Acting in ways that make you seem less professional than other writers.  5.  Making your blurb like a Wikipedia article instead of 3-5 short, tight paragraphs.  6.  Poor proofreading, poor covers.  7.  Not choosing storylines that will appeal to an identifiable market.

4.  Getting my second book out 5 weeks after the first.


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?

1. Studying the trade to learn how to write well. Even if you don't intend to get an agent or trade publisher, you should study what attracts them, how to improve for your markets, etc. 
2. Finish a book. 2k a day and you'll have one in a month.
3. Hire an editor. 
4. Study a lot, on writing well, not just how to make an ebook and slap together a cover. 
5. Work 36 hours in a day. (Authors are on 36 hour days, didn't you know?)

That's it. Perfect the craft, study, write, editor. Rinse, repeat. Your first books will be horrible. Don't look back. Improve during your editing phase and then let it go. Write another one.

Also, don't write one book and expect that to be your only shot ever. Readers want to develop a relationship with a writer. That's done through multiple books. Don't wait and expect yours to be *THE ONE* to sell a million copies. Never stand still, move forward.

2) What books or resources would you most recommend?

Self Editing for the Fiction Writer
Techniques of the Selling Writer
Robert's Rules on Writing

Some have already mentioned a few books, but these are pretty standard for learning how to write well. I read pretty much any craft books I can get my hands on. The 'how to publish' ebooks will help once you've finished but you still have to write a really great book. 

In fact, go to your local library and borrow all the books on the writing shelf. Read through them. You'll write better when you're finished.


3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?

Myth: You can hide in a hole and just write stories and publish.

No. At minimum, they'll be emailing you if they like it, and asking where the next one is. Have a system set up to contact them (newsletter's the popular one). A phone app works, too. A website would be helpful. 

Mistake: Writing trends and not something fresh.

While you can hop a trend quickly (billionaire romances), if you're basically rewriting the same story, you're not standing out. Change the story. Up the stakes. Pull in fresh drama. 

Also, write what you love. If you don't love it, the readers can tell. 

Biggest time wastes: Any moment spent looking for a quick fix and not writing your next book.  Sorry, had to say it. There isn't a short road. 


4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?

1. Not giving a *&^* what people thought. Once I broke out of wanting to 'appeal to agents' and just wrote what I wanted, I was able to write faster and better. Best decision I ever made was to just write what I really liked.

2. Personally, I used a permafree book for my series. Will do it again soon. Grabbing new readers with a freebie can help earn their trust. This may not be for everyone, but it can gain a readership quickly. Readerships can happen without this, but it can be a slower road. It's up to you.

3. Making better covers/having an editor go over the books. Look at your covers with honest eyes. If you can't read the thing, I can't read it. If it's a drawing your 5 year old made, that's sweet, but it doesn't sell books. Can't afford something too expensive? Don't know what looks good? Find an inexpensive premade cover. Go read those posts HM Ward made on why she changed her covers and see if that doesn't convince you.

As for the editor part, pay for what you can afford, or if you can't afford it, trade for it.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

April and May I made over $3K, June I nearly tripled that and almost to $3K for July already.

1) Write a lot, set achievable goals and devise a plan to meet them. For me, that was 45 sales per day. That number would equal my income from my day job, plus taxes and future advertising costs. Now, a short time is different for different people. I consider what I did to be a VERY short time. My first book was published last October 8th and I went over $3K a month within six months of that. Writing just 1000 words a day, out of habit, will give you a 90K word book, four times a year. PAY for good, professional proofreading.

2) This forum, for one. Emulate what others have done successfully and shared on here. If you're just starting out, "The Fledgling Author's Handbook", by Michael Reisig is a must. There's a link to it on my website in the "Shipstore" section, www.waynestinnett.com/shipstore It's only available in paperback, though.

3) One of the greatest myths is that soon you'll sell all you're ever going to sell. That's just not true. Thousands of people are born every day, people discover a love of literature every day, and people will find and enjoy a good book every day. Is yours one of them? I don't know. John D. MacDonald's first book in the Travis McGee series was written in 1964 and is ranked #8,311 in Paid Kindle RIGHT NOW. He's doing well for someone that would have been almost 100 years old if he hadn't died almost 30 years ago.

The greatest waste of time I've seen on here (granted I'm a complete newbie myself), are authors promoting and advertising a single book. If you've only published one book, pour your time into writing the second one. Do a little bit of promoting after that, but utilize your biggest chunk of time available to write the third one. Then, you'll have some traction for advertising.

4) My first big breakthrough was when I published my second book last December 28th. Up to then, I'd had only 8 sales of my first book in December and only 20 in three months. I ended the month (three days later), with over 100 sales across both titles and in January, I averaged 30 sales per day across both titles. My next biggest breakthrough was when I published my third book in early April. Average sales from then to April 21st was 40 per day, across all three titles. Are you sensing a theme here, yet? My third breakthrough was when I was accepted for a BookBub on April 22nd. May averaged over 60 sales a day over all three titles.


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## RachelMeyers (Apr 17, 2014)

As a newbie (writing the first book I plan to self-pub now, about halfway through the first draft) this thread is invaluable.  Not for secrets or magic keys or all that jazz but just to remind me that it takes a lot of work and a little luck, and that writing books (good books, lots of them) is worth more than fretting over promotion.  I have been writing for years, taking it seriously/pursuing publication for about 18 months, and now decided to focus 90% of my energy on self publishing.  These threads are really encouraging that I am on the right path for me.

So thankyou for that 

Congrats everyone on your successes to date, it is so inspiring and encouraging to read.  Here's to many more in your futures!


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

RachelMeyers said:


> writing books (good books, lots of them) is worth more than fretting over promotion.


I think that's an important part to remember. No matter what - no matter how many sales you make or don't make - if you write a story you're truly proud of, nobody can ever take that achievement away from you.


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## noodle24 (Dec 11, 2012)

This is awesome! So many great answers and lots of overlap. I very much appreciate the responses from everyone, and if anyone else wants to chime in please do!


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?

Shortest time possible, you have to either write a lot, or get lucky. There are only a few things you control - your story, your cover, your blurb, and having a great look inside. The rest is up to the gods. If you have the infrastructure in place (say, at least three books in a series with the first perma-free) BookBub will definitely go a long way. That's how I got my start.

2) What books or resources would you most recommend?

For writing, James Scott Bell's Plot & Structure. Probably the best book on writing I've ever read. As far as how to get your book out there, this thread: 
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,163703.0/topicseen.html

3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?

Not doing your homework. Learn everything you can about the business - say, three months or so of research at least - before you ever hit publish. It can save you from making a lot of the same mistakes I made.

Myth: everything will be amazing *if only* I could write full-time. This myth was dispelled within the first couple of months. We get used to our levels of success after a surprisingly short time. It becomes normal, meaning we have to reach higher goals to remain satisfied.

Biggest waste of time? The Internet. There's no one there to tell you to write, no one but you. You will find so many creative ways to talk yourself out of writing (for me, writing this response right now). You have to look at it as both an investment of time and a daily milestone to reach. 5,000 words today. Eight hours at least just sitting down and working. Timetable yourself. Write when you don't want to. Especially when you don't want to.

4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?

1. Writing a lot of books in a series in a well-defined gernre.
2. Making the first book free.
3. BookBub
4. Kboards


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

_1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?_

Writing a series in a clearly defined genre, frequent releases, pricing book 1 free/cheap, and advertising the freebie. I also recommend hiring out anything you're not (extremely) good at doing yourself. The odds of one person being a great writer, artist, self-editor, and formatter are pretty low. So if you can possibly scrape up a few hundred dollars to invest in your small business, it's worth doing.

_2) What books or resources would you most recommend?_

_"Let's Get Visible"_ by Gaughran is useful on the business end, while _"2K-10K"_ by Rachel Aaron is inspiring for a slow writer trying to write faster.

_3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?_

That you'll get more work done as a full timer. What actually happens is more goofing off on the internet and more Netflix marathons. My biggest waste of time? Talking about writing, when I should be doing it.

_4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success? _

I moved to a less obscure genre, started publishing novel length books, wrote a series, and permafreed book 1. This has worked much better than my old strategy of throwing out lots of unrelated books, lengths, and genres, and crossing my fingers.


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## 75845 (Jan 1, 1970)

CLStone said:


> 1. Not giving a *&^* what people thought. Once I broke out of wanting to 'appeal to agents' and just wrote what I wanted, I was able to write faster and better. Best decision I ever made was to just write what I really liked.


So far I have written one novel and received 52 pence in sales (with about £30 owing from retailers), but I'm posting to say how important the above statement is for anyone starting out. My novel was written in 25 days after only managing 8000 words in 3 years on a please-an-agent project. The current sales do not worry me as this is my first novel and as others have already said do not expect quick success although it does happen for some lucky ones. The biggest myth is that you cannot hop around genres and between fiction and non-fiction as this is disproved by success stories of such writers on kboards.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

tagging this thread.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

noodle24 said:


> 1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?


Write books people actually want to read. That means you have to understand story -- what a story IS -- to the point of instinct. You have to have a good command of pacing and prose, too, and you have to understand what makes characters compelling.

Beyond that: write a series in a genre that has a lot of readers. And if you can identify a "gap" in the current offerings (for example, a portion of history that is not well represented in historical fiction), so much the better.



> 2) What books or resources would you most recommend?


Books: Let's Get Digital and Let's Get Visible, both by David Gaughran. (And his fiction is good, too.  ) Write. Publish. Repeat by Sean Platt and Johnny B. Truant. The Anatomy of Story by John Truby. Spunk & Bite by Arthur Plotnik.

The following podcasts: The Self-Publishing Podcast, Rocking Self-Publishing, Self-Publishing Roundtable, and The Creative Penn.

The following blogs: Joe Konrath, Barry Eisler, Failure Ahoy!, The Passive Voice, Lindsay Buroker, Self-Publishing Roundtable.

Most of all, READ A LOT OF BOOKS of the genre in which you wish to write. Get deeply familiar with the authors in your genre and their most popular books. Think about what you're reading -- analyze what makes these books click with readers' imaginations. And analyze the things you don't like about them, too. Think of ways to do what those authors do, but do it way better.



> 3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?


You will work longer hours than you ever did at a day job. It's hard to get into the right flow of balancing working-from-home with not-working. I have done several 12-hour days and one 15.5-hour day since I started doing this full-time a little over a month ago. Guard your sanity; your work will be better for it.

Biggest wastes of time: not writing.



> 4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?


Hitting a "gap" in a popular genre -- that is, I had a fresh setting for historical fiction that readers wanted but couldn't find. So it was easy to stand out from the beginning. If you're the planning type, trying to identify a "gap" before you decide on what novel to write next would be wise, and then write to fill that gap. I just happened to fill the gap by pure luck the first time, but now I'm actively searching for gaps to fill.

Being considered for a book club read on a very active Goodreads group really boosted my sales early on, too. I didn't even get picked, but the fact that my book was in front of so many thoughtful readers led to a huge boom in sales. I love Goodreads -- don't believe the negative hype about it. It's amazing.

BookBub. It pwns the competition, still.

p.s. You cannot overestimate the importance of a truly amazing cover.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

> 1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?


Hiring a housekeeper and someone to deliver food to the house. Also, the Amazon-supplied bags of Soylent.



> 2) What books or resources would you most recommend?


Amazon-supplied bags of Soylent.



> 3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?


The things you want to believe. What I'm doing at this very moment.*

*Just kidding!! Not really. By helping other authors and talking with other people, I'm forced to evaluate what I'm saying and question my beliefs and systems.



> 4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?


SEX SEX SEX and more SEX. Also putting SEX in the books.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

noodle24 said:


> 1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?


As others have said, write a series in a clearly established genre. This doesn't have to be one of the largest genres; a smaller genre works if you're specifically targeting what its readers are looking for. In other words, don't open a restaurant serving Mediterranean sushi burgers with a Mexican flare. Open a burger joint, a pizza parlor, or a hummus house, just be clear about what you're offering. That means the right title*, the right cover, the right blurb. Once you have two or three books out in the series, just promote the hell out of the first one--discounts, advertising, maybe a freebie run, and get readers hooked.

* ...then again, I'm the guy who wrote an epic fantasy title MOTH...



noodle24 said:


> 2) What books or resources would you most recommend?


I've been sending people to "Let's Get Digital" and "Let's Get Visible."



noodle24 said:


> 3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?


My biggest mistake, early on, was trying to establish myself as a writer of standalone fantasy novels. It was tough to sell them. Things got a lot easier once I began to write and market series. As for wastes of time... I'd say sending out review copies & guest blogs post have probably taken up more time than they were worth. These days, I try to minimize these types of promotional efforts and instead focus mainly on writing new books. A new release usually gives me a better boost than a new review or a new blog post. I also waste far too much time on Facebook.



noodle24 said:


> 4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?


My first four novels were standalones, and they didn't sell very well. I struggled throughout 2010 and early 2011. Once I started writing a series, sales took off, eventually letting me leave my day job and become a full time writer.


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## Stuffeshead (Jan 19, 2011)

Daniel Arenson said:


> My first four novels were standalones, and they didn't sell very well. I struggled throughout 2010 and early 2011. Once I started writing a series, sales took off, eventually letting me leave my day job and become a full time writer.


Daniel, one of my first self-published book purchases was Eye of the Wizard. I greatly enjoyed the dynamics of the Misfits, and I still think you should expand those two books into a longer series. The tongue-in-cheek character development was something sorely lacking from the more serious sword-and-sorcery genre.

Stuffeshead


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Stuffeshead said:


> Daniel, one of my first self-published book purchases was Eye of the Wizard. I greatly enjoyed the dynamics of the Misfits, and I still think you should expand those two books into a longer series. The tongue-in-cheek character development was something sorely lacking from the more serious sword-and-sorcery genre.


Thank you, Stuffeshead!


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

If a bunch of bigger name formerish KB authors came back and posted in a thread, would anyone notice?


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Patrick Szabo said:


> If a bunch of bigger name formerish KB authors came back and posted in a thread, would anyone notice?


How would that happen? Did the shoe they all live in burn down?

Or did someone SET OUT A BOWL OF DELICIOUS GUMMY WORMS?


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## 60911 (Jun 13, 2012)

WG McCabe said:


> If a bunch of bigger name formerish KB authors came back and posted in a thread, would anyone notice?


I get it, it's like a "tree falls in the forest" gag, except...wait, am I missing the punch line? It's not very funny...


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I think it's interesting to see what people here are saying across the board (write fairly quickly, and work hard--those are about the only common denominators), and which things vary a lot. (How much you study your genre and your "craft," vs. just writing a book that speaks to you, whether you hire an editor, whether you do permafree, whether you go for a popular genre, and on and on.)

My takeaway is, lots of routes to success, except that it probably is going to take some work to make sure you've got the best book possible for you, however you get to that point, and it probably is going to take more than one or two books. And that, whatever happens, it's probably going to take a fair dose of luck, pixie dust, magic sauce, whatever.

How many authors were turned down again and again by NY publishing, self-published, and made a mint? Quite a few. It's really hard to tell what will hit big, even for people whose livelihood hinges on predicting just that. And my guess is that most authors can't really tell you, not REALLY, why it happened. Yes, they did some things "right." But lots of other people did things right too. Lots of other people wrote terrific books. If you aren't making full-time money, that doesn't mean you're doing something wrong, or that you don't have what it takes. It may just mean that you haven't hit that magic vein of gold yet. Maybe it's Book #5, or Book #9, or Book #13 where it'll happen, where you'll write something that will resonate. Because magic is like that. 

I don't want to sound patronizing. I just think that most authors who've done well writing can't really tell you--not REALLY--what it was that made their book(s) take off. They know what they did, but who knows which combination of things "worked"? I think it's good to study common denominators, but honestly, if I'd come here, or studied a bunch anywhere, before I self-published, I'd have given up before I started. I'd have figured there was no chance, and become mired in self-doubt. I almost did anyway. So--don't do that. Try, and keep trying. One thing's for sure, if you don't try, you have zero chance. That's what I tell myself, every time I take yet another risk, yet another gamble with something new that my readers may hate. (And some do!) 

But, heck. Life's about taking chances, even for the chicken-livered among us, like me.

"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?" -- Robert Browning


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

WG McCabe said:


> If a bunch of bigger name formerish KB authors came back and posted in a thread, would anyone notice?


Pointless question. That would never happen!


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm the king of the pointless question.


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## Nick Endi Webb (Mar 25, 2012)

Who the hell is Jay Allan anyway?


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## 60911 (Jun 13, 2012)

Endi Webb said:


> Who the hell is Jay Allan anyway?


Who is Daniel Arenson? Is he really Aren's Son, because if so that would awesome for that guy Aren, because his son would be selling a fuckton of books.


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

A challenger arises!


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## Rachel Schurig (Apr 9, 2011)

Wait, there are gummy worms in here??


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

Endi Webb said:


> Who the hell is Jay Allan anyway?


Just some ne'er do well who occasionally posts a drive by.

...nothing to see here. Move along...


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Rachel Schurig said:


> Wait, there are gummy worms in here??


This round is on me! Gummy worms for all!

They are, however, in a can.


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## Perro Callejero (Dec 23, 2013)

Great thread, very informative and interesting.  Thank you to the OP for starting it, and to all the authors who replied.


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## BatCauldron (Oct 2, 2013)

Mark E. Cooper said:


> One thing I have found us quality of life is hugely improved. I have a zero stress life now and my health has improved a a result. I sleep properly, eat properly, exercise and have lost almost half my body weight. I was on my way to an early grave. Now hopefully I'll have a lot of years to enjoy life.


Mark, I think this is my favourite 'results summary' I've seen on KB; better than any sales figures. When I think of what I wish to achieve from writing, it's mostly just what you said: a reduction in stress, an improvement in health. I've never aspired to make my fortune through writing, but if it can contribute towards me getting some of what you said above, I'll be thrilled with that.

I'm glad you're already at that stage - fantastic.


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## markhealy (Jun 5, 2014)

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread, I've bookmarked it as well!

I've seen the "write a series and make the first book free" suggestion in many other discussions, and it's a recurring theme here as well.  I'm thinking I might have to try that.


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## Matt Ryan (Nov 16, 2012)

WG McCabe said:


> If a bunch of bigger name formerish KB authors came back and posted in a thread, would anyone notice?


We just need some Russell Blake and Elle Casey now. Maybe a smidgen SM Reine.

But really, this is a great thread. Thank you to those who dropped in to comment.


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## rrodenparker (Jan 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone a LOT for posting your responses.  It has really focused me on figuring out a better strategy than I currently have.  At most I made about $2k in one month, but now I'm down to just $200.  Of course, I have not written anything in the past year either.  Here are my takeaways:

1) Find a good sub-genre that you want to write in.  Bonus if it is a super popular genre, but if it has rabid fans at all, then you should be fine.
2) Write in a series - at least 3 books.  Publish them very close to each other.  Make the first one permafree or 99 cents.
3) Read books in your genre.  Read reviews of those books and take into consideration the honest/constructive criticisms that can help you give the readers what THEY want.
4) Use Bookbub.

I could go on, but following the basic advice of most people here should get you some level of success, as long as your writing isn't completely awful.  Of course, there's always the element of luck, too.


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## EG Michaels (Oct 15, 2013)

Robert J. Crane said:


> Who is Daniel Arenson? Is he really Aren's Son, because if so that would awesome for that guy Aren, because his son would be selling a [expletive]ton of books.


Don't know him personally because I don't read his genre.

But when I took a quick look at his books' rankings on Amazon, I'd say he's doing pretty darn well. He has 3 Kindle box sets alone with a sales rank better than 20K and that's not covering all of his sets or books either.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

E.G. - Robert was making a joke. We know who Daniel is


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## Nick Endi Webb (Mar 25, 2012)

Doomed Muse said:


> E.G. - Robert was making a joke. We know who Daniel is


Do you, Doomed Muse (if that's even your real name)? Do *any* of us know the real Daniel Arenson? For all we know he could be some pants-less fantasy nerd typing in some canadian basement.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Endi Webb said:


> Do you, Doomed Muse (if that's even your real name)? Do *any* of us know the real Daniel Arenson? For all we know he could be some pants-less fantasy nerd typing in some canadian basement.


He's my arch-nemsis typing away in his lair under the Caspian Sea.

I snuck a bugged donut into his hide-out like 4 years ago.

Doomed Muse is totally my real name. My mother was a failed writer. Geez. Way to bring up painful memories. While you are at it, why don't you give me a nice paper-cut and pour lemon juice on it?


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> I was given an ultra-secret commstat link that bounces off the EchoStar satellite to communicate with that Arenson guy. Which totally makes sense if he doesn't want anyone to know he's ... *shudder* ... Canadian.


LOL It's because he wears a toque. It keeps the rest of the world from stealing our thoughts.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********


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## Sonya Bateman (Feb 3, 2013)

WG McCabe said:


> If a bunch of bigger name formerish KB authors came back and posted in a thread, would anyone notice?


I noticed. But I'm a young'un, and I've only heard the legends... so I didn't feel it was my place to point it out.


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

How big does a name have to be, exactly? Phoenix has more letters in hers than my name. Is that big enough?


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## EG Michaels (Oct 15, 2013)

Doomed Muse said:


> E.G. - Robert was making a joke. We know who Daniel is


Okay, cool. Joke noted. 

Blame it on me spending too much time other forums where publicly slaughtering successful people is the norm.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Genre Hobo (mimi-dalya) said:


> How would that happen? Did the shoe they all live in burn down?
> 
> Or did someone SET OUT A BOWL OF DELICIOUS GUMMY WORMS?


There's a secret signal that only a select few know how to light. It's called the Nostalgia Cafe Signal. Within seconds old-timers come out of the works and flutter over, kinda like a MOTH to a candle. (Get it? Moth? Arenson? Bah.)

There's also the Giant Train Wreck Signal, which honestly is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more fun.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Endi Webb said:


> Do *any* of us know the real Daniel Arenson? For all we know he could be some pants-less fantasy nerd typing in some canadian basement.


How dare you, sir?

I type in the attic.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Daniel Arenson said:


> How dare you, sir?
> 
> I type in the attic.


Dude, Endi shot 5/5 (calling it 'a sub-ground attic' doesn't make it not a basement). You might want to check your house, see if it's been bugged.


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## dmac (Jun 23, 2014)

noodle24 said:


> If you're a fiction writer earning a minimum of $3K/month in book royalties, I'd love to hear your answers to the following...
> 
> 1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?


Write a really good book that people want to buy. Write in a popular genre with a rabid fanbase. Write a series.



> 2) What books or resources would you most recommend?


Read the bestselling titles in the genre you are about to write. Find out what they are doing that works and what does not.



> 3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?


That you work less after you start selling a respectable amount. The truth is, you work even more than when you were writing part-time. It becomes a full-time job, and in order to maintain it, you must commit full-time to it. As for the biggest waste of time, arguing with other writers about methods and craft. Do what works for you.



> 4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?


Write well, price reasonably, and treat your readers with respect.


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## 60911 (Jun 13, 2012)

David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish said:


> There's also the Giant Train Wreck Signal, which honestly is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more fun.


Drama? Locked threads? A writer craves not these things.


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Robert J. Crane said:


> Drama? Locked threads? A writer craves not these things.


Not the procrastinating writer. He seeks these out like water in a desert.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

Robert J. Crane said:


> Drama? Locked threads? A writer craves not these things.


Pants? Going outside? A writer craves not these things.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

Write 20 books with dragons on the cover. Got it. Any other advice?


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## Nick Endi Webb (Mar 25, 2012)

Polygamist dragons.


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

In space.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Where everyone dies horrific deaths.


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

And comes back as vampires.


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## MonkeyScribe (Jan 27, 2011)

It's a small niche, but the readers are very devoted.


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## Writerly Writer (Jul 19, 2012)

MichaelWallace said:


> Write 20 books with dragons on the cover. Got it. Any other advice?


ROFL!!


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

So, I need to write 20 books with polygamist dragons in space where everyone dies horrific deaths but come back as vampires.

Clearly the lead character should be a dragon named Madd Libbs the Terrible.


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish said:


> So, I need to write 20 books with polygamist dragons in space where everyone dies horrific deaths but come back as vampires.
> 
> Clearly the lead character should be a dragon named Madd Libbs the Terrible.


That's Undead Emperor Madd Libbs the Terrible to you, space peasant!


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Kalen ODonnell said:


> That's Undead Emperor Madd Libbs the Terrible to you, space peasant!


Actually, it should probably be Undead Emperor Madd Libbs the Thread Derailer, at this point...


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## Kj (Jan 17, 2014)

And he should probably attempt to eat an Amish virgin at some point...


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

bad girl no cookie said:


> How would that happen? Did the shoe they all live in burn down?
> 
> Or did someone SET OUT A BOWL OF DELICIOUS GUMMY WORMS?


I don't know who coaxed you out of kboards retirement, but it's good to have the one-liners back.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

Ember Forest said:


> And he should probably attempt to eat an Amish virgin at some point...


Uh. Um...


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

Ember Forest said:


> And he should probably attempt to eat an Amish virgin at some point...


Too chewy.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I've found lesbian werewolves in space books with dragons on the covers to actually be the bestest selling things ever. I determined this with SCIENCE!


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

Doomed Muse said:


> I've found lesbian werewolves in space books with dragons on the covers to actually be the bestest selling things ever. I determined this with SCIENCE!


You forgot the sexy zombies.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Didn't take long for this thread to drop to the basement. Or is that attic? Heck, I'm from Florida, gotta be down in the attic.


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## Indecisive (Jun 17, 2013)

Endi Webb said:


> Polygamist dragons.


Sorry, mine are polyandrous.


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## martyns (May 8, 2014)

Doomed Muse said:


> I've found lesbian werewolves in space books with dragons on the covers to actually be the bestest selling things ever. I determined this with SCIENCE!


That sounds like a great title for a humor sci-fi book 'Lesbian Werewolves in Space' Hmmm, I just need a plot now...


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## CLStone (Apr 4, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Didn't take long for this thread to drop to the basement. Or is that attic? Heck, I'm from Florida, gotta be down in the attic.


There's some pretty good content in the beginning. But I guess there's only so many ways to repeat the same information.  Not much beyond write, finish, read, publish.

It's not like I was going to share the magic beans that I bury at the crossroads at midnight and wait for the elf who waves a golden fish and it barfs up a hard drive with a few books ready to go.  Those beans take forever to create.


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## Brandon Shire (Jun 17, 2012)

This thread, lol


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## Dalia Daudelin (Jul 11, 2014)

1) If someone wished to have your level of success in the shortest time possible, what would you say is most crucial in making that happen?

Write BDSM erotic romance novels. They sell no matter what kind of characters- though of course, billionaire and motorcycle club stories sell very well right now.

2) What books or resources would you most recommend?

Buy note cards for outlining, calendars for keeping track of how much you write every day, and a [email protected] subscription for the music.

3) What are some of the biggest mistakes and myths about being a full time writer? What are the biggest wastes of time?

Paid advertising so far has been a waste of time. So is most social media. Mistakes include pricing the first novel in a series at 99 cents or free... before any of the other parts in the series are even written.

4) What were your 1-3 biggest breakthroughs (sales or otherwise) that led to your success?

The first big breakthrough was writing my how to self publish erotica guide, which is still one of my best sellers. Another breakthrough was realizing I should be outlining, because I am not a good pantser. Third was that I can write for an hour or two every day and make more writing than I ever did at a real job. 14 hours a week for full time pay? I'm down for that.


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## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

martyns said:


> That sounds like a great title for a humor sci-fi book 'Lesbian Werewolves in Space' Hmmm, I just need a plot now...


Just have them delivering pizza or collecting intergalactic rent in a pimped out spaceship. What? You can't afford to pay me? How will you ever settle this debt? My lesbian werewolf needs must be met, how else can I afford space kibble? Bow chicky bow wow who let the dogs out woof woof woof.


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