# Getting the best out of keywords?



## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I have no idea if most/many readers locate their book purchases by entering keywords (?), but selecting the optimum keywords seems very important in setting up our book pages.

Amazon say individual words work better than phrases.

A recent poster here said that a good technique is to forget about separating the key words with commas and recommended just typing in as many keywords as the system allows (which would be many more than seven on Amazon.) Or seven larger groups of words separated by commas. 

That surprised me. Is it possible, or even allowed? Any thoughts on this and other aspects of keywords?


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## K. D. (Jun 6, 2013)

There was a thread about keywords, but I can't find it, sorry. bump. Anybody else?


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2014)

I remember that one as well, and I tried a few like that on a couple books.  I changed them back after awhile.

I still think the best is to go to the main Amazon page, not Kindle, and start typing in one letter at a time.  I do this with my teaching books.

So I'll type in teach...see what that brings up for choices.  Those choices are the most clicked on or written out.  That's keyword gold.

Then I'll do teaching...see what I get there.  Pretty soon I have more than 7 choices and a hard time on my hands.


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## AnneMarie Novark (Aug 15, 2010)

Something I've been doing lately is not only entering the keywords on KDP when I upload, but also entering them in the metadata of my document that I upload. I think this gives a double whammy (in a good way).


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks!  If anyone else wants to chime in with keyword tips - I'M "LISTENING"!! (I'll be coming back to this thread.)


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## johnlmonk (Jul 24, 2013)

Greg Strandberg said:


> I remember that one as well, and I tried a few like that on a couple books. I changed them back after awhile.
> 
> I still think the best is to go to the main Amazon page, not Kindle, and start typing in one letter at a time. I do this with my teaching books.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip man.


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## CarlSinclair (Apr 7, 2013)

Philip Gibson said:


> I have no idea if most/many readers locate their book purchases by entering keywords (?), but selecting the optimum keywords seems very important in setting up our book pages.
> 
> Amazon say individual words work better than phrases.
> 
> ...


If Kevin Michael is lurking around, he is the man to ask. He has all sorts of spreadsheets and ideas of which keywords will get you into what sub categories.


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## Will C. Brown (Sep 24, 2013)

Greg Strandberg said:


> I still think the best is to go to the main Amazon page, not Kindle, and start typing in one letter at a time. I do this with my teaching books.
> 
> So I'll type in teach...see what that brings up for choices. Those choices are the most clicked on or written out. That's keyword gold.
> 
> Then I'll do teaching...see what I get there. Pretty soon I have more than 7 choices and a hard time on my hands.


Brilliant!
Thanks for sharing that.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

I'm one who uses a few main keywords, then slams in lists of keyword NOT separated by commas. One of the tricks I used was to enter "United States" since not only am I an American, but my book takes place in the US. This got me into a subcategory for Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Horror > United States - which I'd never known existed. Whenever my book hits about 40-50,000 in the rankings (which can happen after just a few sales in a day), I show up in top 100 in that category.

Take it for what you will; it seems to work, and I'll keep doing it as long as Amazon allows. Seven keywords is just too few, and this gets around that limitation.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2014)

Don't forget these links Amazon gives you:

https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2EZES9JAJ6H02

https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A200PDGPEIQX41


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## Adrian Howell (Feb 24, 2013)

I've read somewhere, can't remember where but probably right here in KB, to always put all your key words into your book description as well. Incorporate them into the blurb. This apparently helps bring your book higher up on the search list.


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## Book Master (May 3, 2013)

Philip Gibson said:


> I have no idea if most/many readers locate their book purchases by entering keywords (?), but selecting the optimum keywords seems very important in setting up our book pages.
> 
> Amazon say individual words work better than phrases.
> 
> ...


This nifty tool can help you out there with keyword research.

http://ubersuggest.org/

Yes, you can place high-targeted keywords into your blurbs but don't get crazy with them. Add in your book cover image if you know how.
As for how many search for books through a keyword search, it is unknown but I suspect quite a few do search when its on a problem they need an answer for.

Selling books isn't all about keywords though. Add key word phrases by stuffing the phrase with keywords.

Not saying anymore here because I have material on the subject and it is like cutting my own throat. That link is a great tool for word search though since google has about phased out theres.

H A P P Y K E Y W O R D I N G ! 

BM


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

.


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## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

Adrian Howell said:


> I've read somewhere, can't remember where but probably right here in KB, to always put all your key words into your book description as well. Incorporate them into the blurb. This apparently helps bring your book higher up on the search list.


This actually seems not to be the case. Amazon does not index the words in the blurb. Some people do include keywords there to try to rank their Amazon book pages higher on Google and other external search engines, though. While it probably does work for that purpose, I am not so sure that that helps sales much for fiction. Maybe for non-fiction.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

I've read research somewhere that most readers go to Amazon with a particular title in mind, that they don't generally type in keywords. I mean, a significant portion will - but it's not the end-all, be-all of finding your book. Nor are the "also-boughts" as important as we tend to think.

I wish I could remember where I'd read it. The gist of it was that readers tend to go there for a specific title, not to search.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2014)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> A quick note about keywords: I have a sci fi book that is in 8 different categories specifically through using the right keywords. Here are the categories I have for the book:
> Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Thrillers > Conspiracies
> Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Thrillers > Financial


Very helpful once again. I just updated two of mine that were in the thriller/suspense category.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2014)

This is the 1st in a 3-part series on Amazon Keywords:

http://mlouisalocke.com/2013/11/05/readers-to-booksbooks-to-readers-part-one-how-to-find-books-in-the-kindle-store/


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2014)

Book Master said:


> Not saying anymore here because I have material on the subject and it is like cutting my own throat.


I've been an article writer for the last six years. Although I know a lot about SEO and keywords, I've been researching the information in relation to indie books.

I'm publishing my first indie book in June. A big part of preparing for my launch is the research I'm doing and will continue to do. If you have a book you've written that contains information on keywords, please let me know what it is so that I may buy it. If you don't feel comfortable posting the information in this thread, please PM me. Thanks.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2014)

THANKS EVERYONE for all the information!!


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

If you go to the Amazon search page, and drill down into a category (using links on the left hand side), then you'll usually see a list of... things. They're not categories, they're just ways you can narrow your search.

For romance, it's got stuff like love triangle, secret baby, etc.

For thrillers, it has things like dark, mountains, city, gritty, hardboiled, etc.

If you put those exact words into your keywords, when people click those, you're in that search. (GEEZ, this is hard to explain.)

I've been doing this for several of my books, and the effect on sales has been very, very tiny, but something.

I have a sci-fi romance that would sell once every two months or so, and now it sells like two or three a month. So... something to try.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the useful info. And for the links -- all of which I've now read (only took 2 hours). One of the Amazon links seems to answer the question I asked about leaving out commas in our list of keywords. Or does it?



> Don't use quotation marks in search terms: Single words work better than phrases-and specific words work better than general words. If you enter "complex suspenseful whodunit," only people who type all of those words will find your book. You'll get better results if you enter this: complex suspenseful whodunit. *Customers can search on any of those words and find your book.*


To me, this means:

1. If I use quotation marks (not that I would), as in "JFK Cuba Leaders Castro Kennedy Khrushchev", only readers who type in that exact sequence will find their way to my sub-category and my book.

2. If I type in groups of keywords WITHOUT commas, as in: JFK Cuba Leaders Castro Kennedy Khrushchev, readers who type in any of those keywords will find their way to my sub-category and book.

3. If I type in the keywords WITH commas, as in: JFK, Cuba, Leaders, Castro, Kennedy, Khrushchev, I will have used up six of my key words/phrases and will be unable to enter the many other keywords I would like to include.

Obviously, I/we would prefer the second method above as it seems to allow us to use the most possible keywords. If I am understanding this correctly that is.

Am I?


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## Deena Ward (Jun 20, 2013)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Good luck with your keywords!


Terrific info -- thanks so much! I'm having a problem and wonder if someone might have advice for me. I've got a new adult title (dif pen name) which I was able to successfully get into the romance --->new adult & college sub-category. However, I've been unable to get it into women's fiction --->new adult & college. I assumed that using the category keyword, "new adult," would get me in the sub-cats of both romance and women's fiction. This hasn't proven to be the case for me. Here are my categories as they look on my product page:

Books > Literature & Fiction > Women's Fiction > Contemporary Women
Books > Romance > Contemporary
Books > Romance > New Adult & College
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Contemporary Fiction > Women's Fiction
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Women's Fiction
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Contemporary
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > New Adult & College

The two main categories I chose are FICTION > Contemporary Women and FICTION > Romance > Contemporary. I added "new adult" as a stand-alone keyword. A friend suggested trying "college romance," but it didn't work for me. I'd dearly love to get into the women's fic NA sub-cat since it's easier to chart there. Any ideas of what I might use to get in there?


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> If you go to the Amazon search page, and drill down into a category (using links on the left hand side), then you'll usually see a list of... things. They're not categories, they're just ways you can narrow your search.
> 
> For romance, it's got stuff like love triangle, secret baby, etc.
> 
> ...


I just noticed that list of words last night and wondered how books got labeled with them. Sadly, didn't even occur to me to try putting them in as keywords.  Looks like I've got some revamping to do!


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## Deena Ward (Jun 20, 2013)

L.M. Pfalz said:


> I just noticed that list of words last night and wondered how books got labeled with them. Sadly, didn't even occur to me to try putting them in as keywords.  Looks like I've got some revamping to do!


Those search-narrowing words Valerie discussed are fantastic. I use as many as are relevant. Something else great about them is that they don't have to be entered into the keyword list separately. In other words, you can slip them into keyword strings and they work exactly the same as if they were sitting alone.


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

Deena Ward said:


> Terrific info -- thanks so much! I'm having a problem and wonder if someone might have advice for me. I've got a new adult title (dif pen name) which I was able to successfully get into the romance --->new adult & college sub-category. However, I've been unable to get it into women's fiction --->new adult & college. I assumed that using the category keyword, "new adult," would get me in the sub-cats of both romance and women's fiction. This hasn't proven to be the case for me. Here are my categories as they look on my product page:
> 
> Books > Literature & Fiction > Women's Fiction > Contemporary Women
> Books > Romance > Contemporary
> ...


I would try using "college" by itself while keeping "new adult" as a separate keyword, then "women's fiction" as a third keyword. 
If it doesn't throw you in that category in two or three days, you can email author central.

Also, sidenote. If you want romantic comedy, I was wrong. The correct keywords are: humor, comedy.


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## Deena Ward (Jun 20, 2013)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> I would try using "college" by itself while keeping "new adult" as a separate keyword, then "women's fiction" as a third keyword.
> If it doesn't throw you in that category in two or three days, you can email author central.
> 
> Also, sidenote. If you want romantic comedy, I was wrong. The correct keywords are: humor, comedy.


I'll give that a try. Thanks so much!


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Deena Ward said:


> Those search-narrowing words Valerie discussed are fantastic. I use as many as are relevant. Something else great about them is that they don't have to be entered into the keyword list separately. In other words, you can slip them into keyword strings and they work exactly the same as if they were sitting alone.


By "keyword string" you mean a series of keywords enclosed but not separated by commas, right?


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## L.M. Pfalz (Aug 31, 2012)

Deena Ward said:


> Those search-narrowing words Valerie discussed are fantastic. I use as many as are relevant. Something else great about them is that they don't have to be entered into the keyword list separately. In other words, you can slip them into keyword strings and they work exactly the same as if they were sitting alone.


Ooh, good to know! Thanks!


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## Deena Ward (Jun 20, 2013)

Philip Gibson said:


> By "keyword string" you mean a series of keywords enclosed but not separated by commas, right?


Yep, that's exactly right.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

valeriec80 said:


> If you go to the Amazon search page, and drill down into a category (using links on the left hand side), then you'll usually see a list of... things. They're not categories, they're just ways you can narrow your search.
> 
> For romance, it's got stuff like love triangle, secret baby, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks. 
I had 'workplace' as one of my tags for my contemporary romance. I clicked on the box marked 'workplace' and a selection of 47 pages of books came up. I trawled through them and eventually found With the Headmaster's Approval on page 23. They didn't have 'teacher or headmaster' on their list, but they did have 'wealthy' so I think I will also add that to my tags. Will have to explore this further.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

lacymarankevinmichael said:


> Also, sidenote. If you want romantic comedy, I was wrong. The correct keywords are: humor, comedy.


So humour is no good then


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

We can change our keywords as many times as we like. But to do so, we have to go through the entire re-publishing process as I understand it.

Is that right, or is their a quicker way? Author Central?


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

I wrote a whole chapter on how to manipulate keywords in The Naked Truth About Self-Publishing.

http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Truth-About-Self-Publishing-ebook/dp/B00DHPQGN0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392012832&sr=8-2&keywords=naked+truth


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## Adrian Howell (Feb 24, 2013)

When making these long keyword strings, how would you separate them?

A, B, C, D, E, F, G H I J K L M N O

or

A B C, D E F, G H I, J K L, M N O

where each letter represented a key word or phrase.

In other words, would you use 6 primary key words "properly" and dump everything else into one long string as the 7th key word, or would you make several medium length strings separated by commas?

And is there a difference?


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2014)

LilianaHart said:


> I wrote a whole chapter on how to manipulate keywords in The Naked Truth About Self-Publishing.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Truth-About-Self-Publishing-ebook/dp/B00DHPQGN0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392012832&sr=8-2&keywords=naked+truth


Terrific! I'll download it onto my Kindle. Thanks! 

Thanks, all, for the continued information!


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## Thomas Norwood (Jul 31, 2013)

Adrian Howell said:


> When making these long keyword strings, how would you separate them?
> 
> A, B, C, D, E, F, G H I J K L M N O
> 
> ...


You don't even need to do that. Just leave the commas out entirely. There's no reason to have them in there, and nowhere in KDP does it say you need to separate by commas. People just seem to assume that. It'll say you still have 6 keywords left, but that's fine.

However - be aware that if you go over a total of about 350 characters then it seems to cut them all out entirely - so make sure you keep under that number and you'll be right.

Also, don't repeat words. Ie. If your keywords are "vegetarian cooking healthy cooking", then you can just write: "healthy vegetarian cooking" and it'll come up for any combination of those words.


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## Deena Ward (Jun 20, 2013)

Thomas Norwood said:


> You don't even need to do that. Just leave the commas out entirely. There's no reason to have them in there, and nowhere in KDP does it say you need to separate by commas. People just seem to assume that. It'll say you still have 6 keywords left, but that's fine.


After looking at the first book in your sig and seeing the absolutely stunning list of sub-cats, I have to say that I'm feeling seriously under-sub-catted <g>. Seriously, though, I couldn't get one of my sub-cats to show up until I separated it out from the catch-all phrases and set it as its own, individual keyword. Don't know why, but that's how it went for me. So if anyone out there doesn't get the sub-cat result they want after listing all their keywords in one unbroken string, they might try separating out the sub-cat keyword(s). Mine might be glitchy though. Wouldn't surprise me.



Philip Gibson said:


> We can change our keywords as many times as we like. But to do so, we have to go through the entire re-publishing process as I understand it.
> 
> Is that right, or is their a quicker way? Author Central?


No to Author Central. It must be repubbed, but since you're only changing keywords, it's a quick process. For instance, I changed my keywords yesterday after I posted here and got the usual "Your book is available" email from Amazon about five-six hours later. And of course, your book stays live all the while. The results of those keyword changes, however, might take much longer to show up. For instance, the sub-cat I wanted still hasn't shown up on my product page. I'll wait a few more days before I write KDP about it since it can take a while for categories to kick in (or at least that's been my experience).



syrimne13 said:


> Again, the results aren't that crazy spectacular or anything (150 downloads in 12 hours?), but I was really happy with them, given that I haven't done any advertising at all yet, other than to post on a few FB free books pages.


Hey, that's terrific! Way to go!


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## Jnassise (Mar 22, 2010)

For those of you who have used the keyword string process to get access to the subcategories, how long did it take for those categories to start showing up on your product page?  Is it a few days, a week, ballpark idea?

-Joe


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## Thomas Norwood (Jul 31, 2013)

Jnassise said:


> For those of you who have used the keyword string process to get access to the subcategories, how long did it take for those categories to start showing up on your product page? Is it a few days, a week, ballpark idea?
> 
> -Joe


It usually takes about 2 hours. If they're not showing up by the time it's published in KDP, they're not going to show up.

The secret to getting them to work is choosing the right main category (ie. when you choose your two categories that Amazon allows). Some of those main categories allow extra categories via keywords and some of them don't. You have to experiment.


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## Jnassise (Mar 22, 2010)

Thanks Thomas.  Much obliged.

-Joe


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Deena Ward said:


> After looking at the first book in your sig and seeing the absolutely stunning list of sub-cats, I have to say that I'm feeling seriously under-sub-catted <g>. Seriously, though, I couldn't get one of my sub-cats to show up until I separated it out from the catch-all phrases and set it as its own, individual keyword. Don't know why, but that's how it went for me. So if anyone out there doesn't get the sub-cat result they want after listing all their keywords in one unbroken string, they might try separating out the sub-cat keyword(s). Mine might be glitchy though. Wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> No to Author Central. It must be repubbed, but since you're only changing keywords, it's a quick process. For instance, I changed my keywords yesterday after I posted here and got the usual "Your book is available" email from Amazon about five-six hours later. And of course, your book stays live all the while. The results of those keyword changes, however, might take much longer to show up. For instance, the sub-cat I wanted still hasn't shown up on my product page. I'll wait a few more days before I write KDP about it since it can take a while for categories to kick in (or at least that's been my experience).
> 
> Hey, that's terrific! Way to go!


Thanks for showing us that. Good stuff! Interesting that we can contact KDP and ask for our categories to be updated and expanded.

I'm in the process of expanding my keywords/phrases now that it does actually seem that separation by commas is not mandatory or limiting. However, I'm still using commas to separate: 1. key phrases that are more than one word, and 2. key phrases that are names of categories into which I hope my books can be included.

My expanded list of keywords for #Berlin45 looks like:

Third Reich, war Hitler Churchill Zhukov Truman Nazi Berlin, World War II, Eva Braun, Biographies, 20th. Century, Leaders & Notable People,

My expanded list of keywords for #Tokyo45 looks like:

World War II, Truman Hirohito Oppenheimer Churchill War Hiroshima 1960s Political, Atomic bomb, Pacific War, Biographies, 20th. Century, Leaders & Notable People,

I can't copy and show the list for my latest book (#Havana62) because I just uploaded it and noticed (horror of horrors!) that I had misspelled an important word on my book description page - my own name for Heaven's sake! (Phiip instead of Philip). So the book is now going through the republishing cycle with the correct spelling.

My new understanding of the reduced need for commas gives much greater scope in getting the best out of keywords. I know there is a limit on the total number of characters we can put into our keywords but am not sure what the limit is (350 characters did someone say?) I'd also be interested to see others' lists of their own keywords that they feel could, or do, work for them, if they would care to post them here.


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## Error404 (Sep 6, 2012)

Philip Gibson said:


> My new understanding of the reduced need for commas gives much greater scope in getting the best out of keywords. I know there is a limit on the total number of characters we can put into our keywords but am not sure what the limit is (350 characters did someone say?) I'd also be interested to see others' lists of their own keywords that they feel could, or do, work for them, if they would care to post them here.


Can't confirm this myself, but:



Thomas Norwood said:


> However - be aware that if you go over a total of about 350 characters then it seems to cut them all out entirely - so make sure you keep under that number and you'll be right.
> 
> Also, don't repeat words. Ie. If your keywords are "vegetarian cooking healthy cooking", then you can just write: "healthy vegetarian cooking" and it'll come up for any combination of those words.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

rjkennett said:


> I've read research somewhere that most readers go to Amazon with a particular title in mind, that they don't generally type in keywords. I mean, a significant portion will - but it's not the end-all, be-all of finding your book. Nor are the "also-boughts" as important as we tend to think.
> 
> I wish I could remember where I'd read it. The gist of it was that readers tend to go there for a specific title, not to search.


Really interesting. I'd love to read that research if you can find it. When I'm looking for new titles to read, I actually use the search function to find books related to keywords. I usually don't have a specific title in mind, but want to find good reads in weird westerns, paranormal, and space opera.


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## LKWatts (May 5, 2011)

I changed my keywords yesterday with the help of this thread:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,178468.msg2516019.html#msg2516019

Hope you find it useful


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## Jnassise (Mar 22, 2010)

Well, I've republished three times over the last two days now and my categories won't change.  I'm talking the two I'm able to select in the basic setup, not the sub-categories that I was trying to get into with keywords.  Guess its time for a support email.


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## Error404 (Sep 6, 2012)

Has anyone found that keyword order makes a difference for what categories are added to your book (whether separated by a comma or not)?


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## Mip7 (Mar 3, 2013)

MVT

most valuable thread


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Jnassise said:


> Well, I've republished three times over the last two days now and my categories won't change. I'm talking the two I'm able to select in the basic setup, not the sub-categories that I was trying to get into with keywords. Guess its time for a support email.


If you do email KDP support, maybe you and/or others could post back with their response.

I vaguely remember reading that KDP are generally helpful when it comes to adding requested categories/sub-categories on our books. It would be great to see that confirmed.


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## Matt (Feb 12, 2014)

I have read different things on keywords.

My question is this.

So if I understand this wright you would just type a string of keywords
without any commas only using spaces until I hit seven key words?

For instance.

For a thriller
maybe

dark scary mountain.....and so on

Thank you for your help here.

Matt


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Thanks to all for this information on key words. It is very useful and I will be making some changes today.


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## Maggie Dana (Oct 26, 2011)

JimJohnson said:


> Really interesting. I'd love to read that research if you can find it. When I'm looking for new titles to read, I actually use the search function to find books related to keywords. I usually don't have a specific title in mind, but want to find good reads in weird westerns, paranormal, and space opera.


If you like weird westerns, you might enjoy This. I'm not a fan of westerns but this one was a keeper!

http://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Western-Johnny-B-Truant-ebook/dp/B00AR7YTBM/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1392412812&sr=1-1&keywords=unicorn+western


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 10, 2013)

Thanks for the advice, guys, I've been experimenting on one of my books and have managed to get it into NA as well


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## MH Sargent (Apr 8, 2010)

Matt said:


> I have read different things on keywords.
> 
> My question is this.
> 
> ...


Here are the categories for your book (found at the bottom of your book page):
Books > Literature & Fiction
Books > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Thrillers > Suspense
Books > Sports & Outdoors > Hunting & Fishing > Hunting
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Suspense
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Sports & Outdoors > Outdoors & Nature > Hunting & Fishing > Hunting

So put in these keywords: thrillers hunting fishing suspense outdoors nature sports
Then whatever else applies to your story line, and I'm just guessing, betrayal, lost, strangers, evil, etc. I put commas here just so you get an idea, but you don't need them when you do this.


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## Matt (Feb 12, 2014)

Thank you very much for your help, greatly appreciated.

Do you still have to stick with seven keywords when you don't use commas?

Thanks again.

Matt



MH Sargent said:


> Here are the categories for your book (found at the bottom of your book page):
> Books > Literature & Fiction
> Books > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Thrillers > Suspense
> Books > Sports & Outdoors > Hunting & Fishing > Hunting
> ...


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## Matt (Feb 12, 2014)

Thank you for the help.

I think I have that right but I didn't know you could list that many keywords in a string with no spaces.
I just changed the keywords using commas but I will go back in when the update is done
and give this a try.

Thanks again

Matt



syrimne13 said:


> I didn't. I listed mine out like this and it took fine:
> 
> new adult, apocalypse, dystopian, strong female protagonist, urban fantasy, new adult romance, psychic cyberpunk paranormal romance alternative history political thriller metaphysical sex psychics sagas series science fiction military suspense multicultural and interracial gay romance


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## Jacqueline_Sweet (Jan 10, 2014)

Does anyone have experience with tagging erotica on Amazon? I know there aren't sub-categories (shakes fist at Amazon) but do y'all have any advice?


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## Book Master (May 3, 2013)

Here ya are!

http://searchengineland.com/the-giant-list-of-keyword-tools-41678

Tools for blogs and websites. Tools for what people search most for. Possibly some great finds on keyword phrases to use in some of your book's list of seven keywords or phrases.

Experimentation at its finest.

BM


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## Jacqueline_Sweet (Jan 10, 2014)

So thanks to this AMAZING thread and all of you generous and lovely authors sharing your hard-earned advice I managed to tweak my keywords and get my new serial DEVOUR listed in not just three categories like it was before, but in this many:



    Books > Literature & Fiction
    Books > Romance > New Adult & College
    Books > Romance > Paranormal
    Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > New Adult & College
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Paranormal > Demons & Devils
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Paranormal > Psychics
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Paranormal > Vampires
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Paranormal > Witches & Wizards
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal & Urban

Heck yeah!


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Jacqueline_Sweet said:


> So thanks to this AMAZING thread and all of you generous and lovely authors sharing your hard-earned advice I managed to tweak my keywords and get my new serial DEVOUR listed in not just three categories like it was before, but in this many:
> 
> Books > Literature & Fiction
> Books > Romance > New Adult & College
> ...


That's a RESULT! Congratulations! And I hope it converts into greater visibility and resulting increased sales for you.

Will it?

Someone, up-thread, stated that the majority of readers find their books, not by searching categories and using keywords, but by searching for a specific book title. I'd dispute that --I can't think how I'd have sold a single copy of my books if that were the case. But I don't want to dispute it on the basis of gut feeling and anecdotes. Those exist --for example: the writers of 'Write, Publish, Repeat' describe in detail how they search for books on sites like Amazon, only using categories.

But that is anecdotal of course.

I'd hope, and actually expect, that someone, somewhere, has done a reasonably-scientific survey on how readers search for books online.

Anyone know of such a survey?


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

syrimne13 said:


> I didn't. I listed mine out like this and it took fine:
> 
> new adult, apocalypse, dystopian, strong female protagonist, urban fantasy, new adult romance, psychic cyberpunk paranormal romance alternative history political thriller metaphysical sex psychics sagas series science fiction military suspense multicultural and interracial gay romance


This on its own makes a pretty appealing blurb for a novel! What I find less easy is what to use as a main category, apart from Fantasy. Would using Fantasy as a main category twice be too limiting?


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## The 13th Doctor (May 31, 2012)

I tweaked the keywords on my books and one of my pen name books is now in the Top 20 of a sub-genre! The book is free but being there means getting more eyes on  it.


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

Thank you, *syrimne13*! I have wondered about that with the 'second' book (it's actually the third but the second hasn't quite been done yet) as it has definite romance elements.

I suppose there's no harm in trying...


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm in newbie learning mode. I have tried tweaking the words and it will be interesting to see what categories the book appears in.

I will do it for both titles and report back - one isn't young adult.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

syrimne13 said:


> Yeah, I hope it works! I'm just playing right now, trying different combinations to see what works...this is a big experimentation year for me, because (frankly) I've been doing a lot of things wrong for the past few years on the business side, so I'm in full-on learning mode now.


OT:

I LOVE what you have done with your book covers, the black and white with a touch of color thing. It catches my eyes!

I am in the same boat as you, so far as doing a lot of business incorrectly the past two years and trying to learn that better now. My next day off I am going to play with my keywords, too. I am excited about it!


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## CJ Davis (Aug 12, 2013)

Interesting stuff guys. I'm in marketing for my day job. The term you all might want to Google is long tail key words. I think all the single keywords are completely saturated in the 300,000 books out there. Our only chance of showing up in searches might be these long tail keywords. Example... For my book, "fantasty action book with strong heroine"

Ultimately though, I don't think there are any major gains to be made. You might pick up a few extra sales. As others have eluded, book purchasing behavior typically doesn't revved around keyword searches.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I've been working on my books over the last few days. A lot of them are now in a few new categories. I'm going to keep playing with them to see if I can get into more. The nice thing with a series is that I can get different books into different categories, drawing more attention to the series as a whole.


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

Just feeding back - I have managed to get both books into a wider spread of categories, which is good. This was using the keyword string idea. So I was able to use many more keywords.

I don't know yet whether it will improve visibility or sales. In theory, it could.  I should add that my book is rather hard to categorise!

I'm eager to know how everyone's keyword changes are working...

Categories
Books > Literature & Fiction
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal
Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alternate History
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Coming of Age
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Metaphysical & Visionary
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Paranormal & Urban
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Superhero
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Sword & Sorcery
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Science Fiction > Alternative History
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Teen & Young Adult > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Coming of Age


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I'm not sure which keywords count as a 'category'. If you put 'love triangle' ; 'workplace' ; 'wealthy' etc, which appear in the boxes, are these considered categories?


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2014)

This is one of the best threads at WC!  Thanks so much for the information!


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I've managed to confuse myself. (A situation that occurs at least 14x an hour, so no surprise.)

I understand that my keywords have to fall under a "main" category that I choose via dashboard. For me, that would be Mystery, Thriller & Suspense. That main cat has sub-cats, eg. Crime Fiction, Mystery, Suspense, Thrillers. And those sub-cats have sub- sub-cats. And some have sub-sub-subs.

So, I could have a chain like this: Kindle Store> Kindle ebooks> Mystery, Thriller & Suspense> Mystery>Cozy > Animals
and this: Kindle Store> Kindle ebooks> Mystery, Thriller & Suspense> Mystery> Women Sleuths 
or this: Kindle Store> Kindle ebooks> Mystery, Thriller & Suspense> Suspense> Psychological and so on. 
They all fall under the main cat of M, T & S. Would using keywords get me into the other sub-cats or do I need to be more specific when I'm drilling down if I want to be under those specific sub-cats and their progeny?

Because I'd like to have more than one main cat, too. IOW, if I pick ONE main category of Mystery, Thriller, & Suspense, can I get all of those subs and sub-subs and sub-sub-subs by keywords as well as picking a completely diff main category like Literature & Fiction > Humor & Satire > Dark Comedy?

Does that make sense? Any of it? Any at all?


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

LilianaHart said:


> I wrote a whole chapter on how to manipulate keywords in The Naked Truth About Self-Publishing.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Truth-About-Self-Publishing-ebook/dp/B00DHPQGN0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392012832&sr=8-2&keywords=naked+truth


Highly recommended. A great chapter on manipulating keywords.
Preparing for a sale, I put some time into the keywords and went from 4 categories to 11... couldn't believe it.

One nice-to-have would be if Amazon allowed changing categories/keywords from our Author's Central page


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

Donna White Glaser said:


> I've managed to confuse myself. (A situation that occurs at least 14x an hour, so no surprise.)
> 
> I understand that my keywords have to fall under a "main" category that I choose via dashboard. For me, that would be Mystery, Thriller & Suspense. That main cat has sub-cats, eg. Crime Fiction, Mystery, Suspense, Thrillers. And those sub-cats have sub- sub-cats. And some have sub-sub-subs.
> 
> ...


Well...I have to confess I find this quite hard to understand too. When I chose the category for 'Children of the Shaman' I wanted to put it in Fantasy and Young Adult. But there didn't seem to be a main category for 'Young Adult' at all when choosing the categories on the dashboard.

I have read an explanation of why this happens. I have an awful memory but I seem to recall someone saying that you need to use keywords to obtain those sorts of categories.

It looks as though you can access the sub and sub-sub categories you mention by including those words in a 'string'. If I understand it right, in genre fiction Amazon invites you to use the keywords so that readers can find your work more easily. And it looks as though you can use all or any of the words that may be relevant to your book

It's funny though - the keywords appear to operate in more than one way. They must partly reflect search terms but also affect what categories your book appears in. I'm still not sure I full understand how it works!



> Because I'd like to have more than one main cat, too. IOW, if I pick ONE main category of Mystery, Thriller, & Suspense, can I get all of those subs and sub-subs and sub-sub-subs by keywords as well as picking a completely diff main category like Literature & Fiction > Humor & Satire > Dark Comedy?
> 
> Does that make sense? Any of it? Any at all?


I think the answer is - yes! You need to use fewer than 350 characters, and the limit of keywords is seven - but that means seven phrases, or even word strings - syrimne13 quotes the keywords she used further up the thread.

The only thing you want to avoid is repetition of words (unless they are part of a phrase, perhaps?)

I may not have understood this right and am happy to be corrected!


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

The other part that is confusing is that the keyword "chain" that you can pick from on their site is not the same chain as we have to pick from in Dashboard. Yeesh.


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## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

OK, yup, it does work the way I described. I chose two different chains and got this--

Look for Similar Items by Category
Books > Literature & Fiction > Humor
Books > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery > Women Sleuths
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Humor & Satire > Dark Comedy
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Humor & Satire > General Humor
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery > Cozy > Animals
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery > Series
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Mystery, Thriller & Suspense > Mystery > Women Sleuths

Yay!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

It would be helpful if we had threads for each genre with a list of suggested tags and phrases. On Goodreads you can actually see the tags that others have used - but I can't remember how I found them


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## Ancient Lawyer (Jul 1, 2013)

Donna White Glaser said:


> OK, yup, it does work the way I described. I chose two different chains and got this--
> 
> Look for Similar Items by Category
> Books > Literature & Fiction > Humor
> ...


Bingo! That's great.

Jan Hurst-Nicholson - it would be handy, though in a way there is quite a lot of overlap.

What I want to know - and I'm not sure how to ascertain this - is, does this affect sales? It certainly looks as though it could because our books have more chance of being found (and not just by search engines!)


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2014)

Brian Spangler said:


> Highly recommended. A great chapter on manipulating keywords.
> Preparing for a sale, I put some time into the keywords and went from 4 categories to 11... couldn't believe it.
> 
> One nice-to-have would be if Amazon allowed changing categories/keywords from our Author's Central page


Yes, I'm reading the entire book now. Highly recommended for indie authors!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

I've changed my keywords recently based on the Amazon keyword info listed above (yeah, why didn't I see that at the time? Never mind, I didn't), and also based on the "lists" on which my books appear on Goodreads. It never occurred to me, for example, that my two books with a Maori hero would be considered "multicultural" or "interracial" romance, but they're on all those lists, so I changed the keyword, and now those books show up in that subcategory. You could do this even if your books weren't on lists, by looking up good-selling books on Goodreads that you think are like yours and seeing what "lists" they're on. Just another idea.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I've been playing with my keywords. Using the tips here, I've gotten most of my books into new categories, though I still need to play around with some of them. One of my vampire novels is still in the ghost category and I can't for the life of me figure out why!


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, this is interesting.

I just published my first box set. As discussed above, I expanded the number of key words using the technique of putting multiple keywords between commas instead of isolating each keyword between commas. This resulted in me getting into more sub-categories than I had previously manged with any of my books. My categories for the box set now look like this:

Books > History > Military > United States
Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Historical
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > History > Military > United States
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > Biographical
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > European
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > German
Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > Japanese

But here's the really surprising thing: After publishing, I bought the box set myself. I do this to make a final check in case any formatting issues have crept through. So the book has now just ONE sale. And with just ONE sale, it is now ranked in the top 100 of some of those sub-categories as follows:

#147,252 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#56 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > Japanese
#59 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > European
#71 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Historical Fiction > German

What I don't know is how much, if any, benefit there is to being featured in the top 100 of what may be very obscure sub-categories.

But I find it pretty cool to have made it there with just ONE (my own) purchase...This may be the power of keywords.


Philip


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## C.G. (Jan 23, 2014)

I just tried the long keyword string on all my books. I'm so glad I found this thread before one of my books started its first countdown deal. It gives me at least a week to experiment.


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

Just a quick question on keywords. I've read through the posts and some of the keywords suggeste. Now for me because I write a lot of epic fantasy I would generally use "Elves" as a keyword. But I read somewhere that "Elf" works and "Elves" doesn't. The same with "Wizards" vs "Wizard". 

Does anyone know if plurals are actually a pain compared to singlulars? Or is that just me?

Cheers, Greg.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

psychotick said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just a quick question on keywords. I've read through the posts and some of the keywords suggeste. Now for me because I write a lot of epic fantasy I would generally use "Elves" as a keyword. But I read somewhere that "Elf" works and "Elves" doesn't. The same with "Wizards" vs "Wizard".
> 
> ...


In the absence of a definitive answer to your question, I see nothing to prevent you putting in both forms: :Elf Elves Wizard Wizards.


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## psychotick (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi,

The problem is that you can have only seven keywords. (I'm not convinced about the effect of having more keywords and less commas.)

Cheers, Greg.


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## Huldra (Nov 7, 2013)

So keyword strings are the best thing since cheese!

My novelette popped straight into 6 categories (5 subcategories for Erotica) and is searchable on single words within each string, which is what I was a bit worried about, since Amazon claims it would *only* be searchable for the exact phrase within each comma.

Thanks a TON for this thread!


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