# Text justification WRT 2.3 update



## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

I recently updated my K2 to 2.3 and also installed a font hack (cmod bold) for the first time, and I noticed the following change. The text is and always has been justified - spaces between words are adjusted so that the text lines up on the right side margin as well as the left. But it used to be that if there was some big word that would have put really huge spaces between the words (because it wouldn't fit on that line of text), the kindle didn't put huge spaces between the words - it would just leave space at the end of the line. 

I remember this is how it was because before I got the kindle, I read about the justified text and was worried, but then saw that it only justified a reasonable amount (didn't try to justify if it would put huge gaps) and so I was happy.

But now I am seeing justification at all costs - big gaps on occasion, to make the words line up on the right.

So I'm wondering if this is due to the font hack or the upgrade? Of course, I should uninstall the font hack and see, but I'm at work, and don't have the cord with me...

Cathy


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Sounds like the hack.... Did you use one of Ted's hacks, or the other one that was on MobileRead before Ted updated his page? I'm not sure they are the same.


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## 911jason (Aug 17, 2009)

Has this happened on more than one book? It's possibly a Topaz formatted book where the Kindle doesn't do the actual justification.

If it doesn't turn out to be the book, I'd encourage you to try one of the other fonts. I've never had this problem with Georgia2 and I've never seen anyone post about this problem with the other popular one, Helvetica2.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

I uninstalled the font hack and in fact did a factory reset just to be sure, and the justify-at-all-costs is still there. I'd like to be able to roll back to 2.0.3 but I'm not sure it's possible? It only bugs me a little, but it's more a case where I'm wondering if I'm going crazy - before the update I really do remember the occasional line of text that didn't go all the way to the right, and thinking how clever it was that they saw that justifying some lines would look like crap. I called it "justified within reason".

So does anyone know if it's possible to roll back?

Also, there are some people discussing this on Amazon's forum:
http://www.amazon.com/tag/kindle/forum/ref=cm_cd_pg_prev?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxA0CAUDPZLR0C&displayType=tagsDetail


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Does anybody know if the other ebook readers have this "feature?" If the Sony or Nook do better at hyphen breaks or justification, it might be time to have a closer look at them.

Mike


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

On the up side, this is just a software thing, and Amazon has obviously been providing us with relatively frequent updates. I just wish I knew of someone at Amazon that I could tell - they probably don't realize that they somehow changed something (which I believe they did - I don't think it's in my head). I also wish I had a screen shot of how it was before, to explain to them - with an occasional line NOT going all the way to the right (it was as if they said, add space up to this amount to try and align the right edge). *Is there anyone out there who didn't install 2.3 and thinks they know what I'm talking about and could look for a good screen shot - a line that DOESN'T go all the way to the right (when most others do) because it would cause huge gaps?*

I also think people need to make a bigger stink about having the option to left-align rather than full justify. I think Amazon is very sensitive to anything people are pointing out that other ereaders do better.

BTW, in answer to a previous question, I've looked at multiple books, they aren't topaz.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

I can't say that I've noticed any change in the justification since I installed 2.3. As we know, the K2 has always had full justification, and I am not seeing any gaps.

I am curious about two things:

1) have you checked multiple books?

2) what font size are you using, and have you changed the size to see if they all behave the same way?


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Yes, I've checked multiple books. One I bought from Amazon (not topaz) and one that I converted from plain text in Mobipocket Creator. I'm using font size 3 (1 being the smallest?). As with the justification issue in general, it's worse with bigger text. I only see a line that bothers me maybe every 10 or 15 pages. There is a point where the amount of space between words becomes noticeable. In the past, in stead of a line having noticeable extra space, there'd be a line that did not go all the way to the right - it was as if Amazon said they'd add space between words, but only to a limit. So if someone doesn't have 2.3 installed, what they would look for (maybe on font size 3 or 4) is a line that doesn't line up on the right (obviously I'm not talking about the last line in a paragraph) and has a little gap at the end of the line. Probably the word on the next line is a big word. That's what I want a srcreen shot of. I could Photoshop a screen shot to look like that, to show you what I mean, if you think it would help.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Nope, I'm clear now.... I read at the 2nd to smallest font size, and I think that is why it is not noticeable to me. I will try at the 3rd size and see if I notice a difference. I do know that when I have looked at the Kindle occasionally at the highest font size that the justification has always been awful, with large gaps between words. I did prefer the left justification option on the K1, can't imagine why they removed it from the K2.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Probably it would help if someone generated a book file with some big words - but I really got to get some work done!


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

I don't have the update yet, and I don't have any hacks installed.  I've never noticed anything grating about the way lines were justified before...  If you can give me an example of a book in which this happens (ideally in the first chapter or so, so that I can DL a sample!) I'll look at it and take a picture for direct comparison.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

The thing is, what is being discussed here as a fault is likely a "fix" intentionally put in due to some users complaining about faulty justification.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

vermontcathy said:


> Yes, I've checked multiple books. One I bought from Amazon (not topaz) and one that I converted from plain text in Mobipocket Creator. I'm using font size 3 (1 being the smallest?). As with the justification issue in general, it's worse with bigger text. I only see a line that bothers me maybe every 10 or 15 pages. There is a point where the amount of space between words becomes noticeable. In the past, in stead of a line having noticeable extra space, there'd be a line that did not go all the way to the right - it was as if Amazon said they'd add space between words, but only to a limit. So if someone doesn't have 2.3 installed, what they would look for (maybe on font size 3 or 4) is a line that doesn't line up on the right (obviously I'm not talking about the last line in a paragraph) and has a little gap at the end of the line. Probably the word on the next line is a big word. That's what I want a srcreen shot of. I could Photoshop a screen shot to look like that, to show you what I mean, if you think it would help.


Can you tell us which Amazon book it is? Perhaps someone else has it and can check what it looks like.

Betsy


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

It's not just one book. Right now I'm reading Barbara Kingsolver's The Lacuna, but it is the same in all my books including a text file I converted to mobi. It's not something you'd see on every page - just when you happen to have some big words.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

It's just that it's a lot easier to troubleshoot if we're all working from the same data.  Can you find an example by location in the Kingsolver novel?

Betsy


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

I think a good thing to use is something that everybody has -- or has easy access to.

Cathy, in the Kindle User's Guide, 4th Ed. please go to ther very end of the guide -- going to any location above say 1800 should give you the last 4 lines of the Guide (using font size 3).

Is what you are talking about the way that the second to the last line appears? A ton of whitespace in the line?

If so can anybody who's not yet upgraded take a look and see if it forces the same amount of space in? I'll try and look on DW's later this even and see...

The last two lines on size 3 on 2.3 read:

*Clicking on this link:
www.amazon.com/kindletermsandconditions.
*
(Hopefully that'll get posted with the whitespace included....)

EDIT: It did -- that's exactly how my last two lines are spaced. Cathy -- same on yours?


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Yes, that's what I mean. It is my belief that prior to 2.3, the words wouldn't have been so spaced out - they would have had more space between them than on some lines, but not that much, and so there'd be extra space at the end. 

Of course, if someone hasn't installed 2.3, they won't have the 4th edition of the user guide. Is it possible to post it here somehow for someone w/o 2.3 to download and look at?


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

I believe the 4th Edition is in the Archive for all -- I don't think you need the update to get it -- could be wrong. 
If it is indeed the case that you need the update then as soon as I get my hands on DW's Kindle I'll check since the 4th *is* in our archive via my update and I should be able to pull it onto her's since we're on the same account....


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

The user guides are generally available to anyone.

On your computer, go to Kindle Support (top line menu in the Kindle Store, to the right)
then Kindle Resources, documentation.  One of the options is the azw version of the Kindle User's Guide.

Betsy


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Do you have the User's Guide 4th edition? Over in the other thread (linked above), someone had a good example, at the very end of the document:

The last two lines on size 3 on 2.3 read:

Clicking on this link:
www.amazon.com/kindletermsandconditions.

He thought even people who haven't updated yet will have the 4th ed. in their archives. Another option is the sample of "An Edible History of Humanity" http://www.amazon.com/Edible-History-Humanity-ebook/dp/B002WOD90A/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2. I've got a page up with locations 159-65 (? Does that mean 159-165?). There are two lines on that page which, to me, have too much spacing between words - "technologies in question-domesticated" and "food deliberately. Farming emerged". I'll put in an image, though I've never done this before...


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

merged 'em. . .


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, I downloaded the latest User's guide to my K1 and it shows the same justification issue as VermontCathy is talking about.  It's not so obvious on Font size 3, but on Font size 2 (next to smallest) there are only two words "this link:" on the next to last line and it's fully justified. (On font size 3, it says "languages by clicking on this link:" and doesn't look bad.

I wonder if the font size in version 2.3 is slightly different than in the previous version?

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Though not an advertised improvement, maybe they darkened/bolded it just slightly in response to early complaints that the text did not seem as dark as on the K1.  I think I mentioned that on the DX the headlines in the newspapers and blogs look very different than before I put on 2.3.  Definitely larger and bolder.  I'm not noticing larger or bolder particularly in the text but  (1) it's a DX so the lines are fairly long even on larger sizes, and (2) I use size 2.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

If the rendering engine would break lines after hyphens and dashes as well as on word spaces, a lot of this would be a non-issue. It doesn't seem like that should be all that difficult to implement. Not all, though, unless they also implemented an automatic hyphenation dictionary look-up for long words, which would be non-trivial (and can also result in ugly "ladders" of hyphens in the right margin that typesetters are always trying to avoid).


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## Tip10 (Apr 16, 2009)

Cathy,
I can confirm what you see and were remembering seeing from before -- it does indeed appear that justification has changed dramatically.

The last two lines on size 3 on 2.3 read:
*
Clicking on this link:
www.amazon.com/kindletermsandconditions.
*

The last two lines on size 3 on 2.0.4 read:
*
Clicking on this link:
www.amazon.com/kindletermsandconditions.
*

Also, on font size 2 on 2.3 the second to the last line only contains two word (as Betsy pointed out) *this* which is fully left justified and *link:* which is fully right justified.
On version 2.0.4 *this* is fully left justified and then there are only 2 or 3 spaces before the work* link:*


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

YAY - I'm not crazy!!!!!

On the other hand.... wtf were they thinking? It was perfect before (for me - I don't mind full justification as long as they don't go crazy with the spaces). 

I think we really need to make a fuss about this with Amazon.

Next question - does anyone know if it's possible to roll back to 2.0.3? I heard it's not possible because each update is incremental, so even if I had the 2.0.3 update file, it wouldn't work or something.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Tip 10, can you get me a screen shot from the 2.0.3 kindle? And maybe of that sample I mentioned, too? I really want to bring this up with Amazon.

Or, any book that you have on both kindles, page forward on size 3 until you see an overly-spaced line and take a screen shot of that text on each kindle.

Thanks!


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Even if you were to roll it back, there is a always the possibility that Amazon would just install the upgrade again via WhisperNet the next time you connect.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

pidgeon92 said:


> Even if you were to roll it back, there is a always the possibility that Amazon would just install the upgrade again via WhisperNet the next time you connect.


Hmm. Good point. Although not if I have a font hack installed... Maybe I'll call CS and ask. Saying "you made something worse with the update - I want 2.0.3 back" might get some attention.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

vermontcathy said:


> Although not if I have a font hack installed...


You're right, a font hack should indeed keep it from updating. I wonder if a factory reset would take you back to the original software? I'm guessing not.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

Nope, factory reset kept me at 2.3. I'm wondering what will happen if I had the 2.0.3 update bin file, but I didn't save it. I just sent an email to the kindle feedback email. I guess now I'll screw up my courage and call Amazon.

Cathy


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

OK, I called CS. I wasn't sure which option to pick when I called (it said things like "if your kindle is broken, press 1" etc. and none applied) so at first I got someone with an accent. So I started by asking if there was a way to revert back to 2.0.3 because I was having a problem with 2.3 and he transferred me to the technical help people and the man I spoke with had no accent (I'm not being biased or anything, just giving info - sounds like for technical stuff you might get someone in the US).

I explained the situation using the 4th edition guide example, and he understood what I was saying. I was happy that he didn't say anything like, "oh, we did that on purpose".   He seemed to agree that it was better before. He said he'd pass the info along to the right people because he hadn't been aware of that issue before. I asked if it's possible to revert back to 2.0.3 and he said sure, do a factory reset. I said I tried that, it stays on 2.3. He said, "Oh, that's new". And so there's no way to go back that he knows of. I'm still curious what would happen if I had the 2.0.3 update bin file...

They really seem to have their act together - with the info he was submitting to the tech folks, he had the email I'd sent half an hour before to the [email protected] email address, even though I never told him about that email! I also told him about the discussion going on on the forum at Amazon, and he found it and included a link to that for the tech folks, too. He said he'd try to keep me apprised of what the tech folks said, but he said he himself isn't always kept in the loop once things are passed to tech, so no promises. 

As someone who works with computers, software, and bug reporting, I was very impressed with how they handled it.

In the meantime, I'm using the CMOD narrow font hack which reduces the problem since the font is a bit narrower.


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## vermontcathy (Feb 18, 2009)

I received the 2.0.3 bin file from someone, but the kindle wouldn't accept it. I uninstalled the font hack, even did a factory reset, but "Update your kindle" stayed greyed out after I put the bin file on my kindle. And the next time I plugged the kindle in to the computer, the bin file was gone! So it seems there is no way to go back.

Interestingly, after I tried all that, then reinstalled the font hack, I opened the public domain Sherlock Holmes book I had just begun, and it was left justified! I went back and forward several pages, back to home, back to the book, still left justified. Then after a few pages, back to full-justified, and when I backed up, what had been left was all full-justified. Very strange. A similar think happened yesterday, with a different public domain book that was showing up for a moment as centered text! Someone is messing with my head.

But interestingly, I discovered I'm not super fond of left-justified. Just personal preference, but I like full - except I want it the way it was - full within reason, not full at all costs.


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