# Short Story vs Novelette vs Novella vs Novel



## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Please forgive me if this has been asked before. I googled and found conflicting information, some from years ago, some newer but not all the same numbers. I search the KB site and found conflicting numbers in the search results.

If I am correct, in tradpub, short stories can be 5K - 10K words. NYT suspense novels are about 100K. Romance can be maybe 60K - 80K. General fiction, maybe 70K - 80K. Are these ballpack figures about right for selfpubbed too?

What's the difference in lengths between:
- a short story and a novelette? 
- a novelette and a novella?

I saw somewhere on a KB that someone said that 40K words is considered a novel. Isn't that too short? I thought that 60K is the minimum for a novel.

Sorry again if this has been discussed. If so, would a kind soul please post links to previous discussions so that I can check it out? Thank you!


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

C.C. Kelly said:


> I think it is:
> 
> Short story = less than 7.5k
> Novelette = 7.5k to 17.5k
> ...


Nailed it.

Also, FWIW...

Flash Fiction = <1K


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

ETA: Pardon the simultaneous posting (was typing before I saw any replies in the thread). We're definitely of like mind on this matter.



JanThompson said:


> Please forgive me if this has been asked before. I googled and found conflicting information, some from years ago, some newer but not all the same numbers. I search the KB site and found conflicting numbers in the search results.
> 
> If I am correct, in tradpub, short stories can be 5K - 10K words. NYT suspense novels are about 100K. Romance can be maybe 60K - 80K. General fiction, maybe 70K - 80K. Are these ballpack figures about right for selfpubbed too?
> 
> ...


It definitely varies from genre to genre, but in YA and Speculative Fiction (Fantasy/Scifi), 40K is considered a novel. Before I'd ever written a novel, I considered 150 pages to be a short novel size and wasn't bothered by it in the least. Some of the classics are short novels, and no one really disputes that. The conventions created by competing publishing houses creating larger and larger novels over the years (including the door stoppers as large a phone book *-^).

According to the Nebula book lengths are as follows (Scroll down to rule #5): 

Short stories are up to 7,500k
Novelettes are 7,500k to 17,500k
Novella are 17,500k to 40k
and Novels start at 40k

Romance, from what I hear, considers 55k to 60k to be the starting point for a novel. I write PNR, so I go by the fantasy rules and will consider 150 pages a short novel.

I don't know a great deal about mysteries and thrillers at this time.


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## KellyHarper (Jul 29, 2012)

If you're writing romance at 50-55k words, you'll definitely run the risk of getting "this is too short" comments (and not the "OH MY GOD I LOVED IT SO MUCH WHY DID IT END SO SOON" kind).

Moral: Use the numbers listed as a loose guideline, then do specific research into the genre you'll be writing.


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## Zoe Cannon (Sep 2, 2012)

I suspect those sci-fi numbers may be a holdover from an earlier era. These days most of the sci-fi novels I see are _big _- almost as fat as fantasy novels.

It does vary a lot, from genre to genre and from reader to reader. I would personally consider anything under 50-60k a novella (unless it's romance or maybe YA), but I know a lot of people use 40k as the cutoff.


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

KellyHarper said:


> If you're writing romance at 50-55k words, you'll definitely run the risk of getting "this is too short" comments (and not the "OH MY GOD I LOVED IT SO MUCH WHY DID IT END SO SOON" kind).
> 
> Moral: Use the numbers listed as a loose guideline, then do specific research into the genre you'll be writing.


Agreed. I've seen 250 page books referred to as novellas by some romance readers. Others accept that as novel-sized, but there are definitely a vocal number who are likely to express dissatisfaction with that length.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Thank you, everyone, for the numbers. Very helpful!

That's interesting that one chapter or even one page could make the difference between a novella and novel!

Good points about word counts being different for different genres.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

While they may have specific meanings (which differ depending on the source), I think the terms 'novella' and 'novelette' are just vague concepts to most readers.

Most readers have a fairly solid concept of what a novel is to them, and what they consider a short story.  The other two terms translate simply to 'something in between'. 

Personally, I find the term 'novelette' silly sounding, so I'll label something as a novella if it's in that in-between area.


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## Lanie Jordan (Feb 23, 2011)

Personally, I've always viewed it this way:

5k-10k: Short story
10k-20k: Novellete
20k-40k: Novella
40k-60k: Short Novel 
60k-90k: Novel
90k+: Look-at-all-the-pretty-words!


50k seems to be considered a novel with some YA publishers, though, from what I've seen.


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## Scott Daniel (Feb 1, 2011)

swolf said:


> While they may have specific meanings (which differ depending on the source), I think the terms 'novella' and 'novelette' are just vague concepts to most readers.
> 
> Most readers have a fairly solid concept of what a novel is to them, and what they consider a short story. The other two terms translate simply to 'something in between'.


I tend to agree. For a lot of readers, I think there are short stories and novels and that's about it. I think most readers think of a novel as being at least 250 pages ... 75,000 words, roughly?


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## TJHudson (Jul 9, 2012)

Just adding that if you're planning on writing an epic fantasy  or sci-fi then fans expect those novels to be BIG 110,000+.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

> I suspect those sci-fi numbers may be a holdover from an earlier era. These days most of the sci-fi novels I see are big - almost as fat as fantasy novels.


I poked around and the sf "novel" being 40k words seems to come from the Hugo awards and is a number set in 1953. It's totally out of touch with today's trad publishing world.

To me one of the really great things about today's indie publishing is the return of shorter works. Not only was the market for shorts dwindling, no matter the genre, the magazines I found that published fiction generally had a very dated sensibility.


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## Karl Fields (Jan 24, 2011)

swolf said:


> While they may have specific meanings (which differ depending on the source), I think the terms 'novella' and 'novelette' are just vague concepts to most readers.
> 
> Most readers have a fairly solid concept of what a novel is to them, and what they consider a short story. The other two terms translate simply to 'something in between'.
> 
> *Personally, I find the term 'novelette' silly sounding*, so I'll label something as a novella if it's in that in-between area.


Thank you! So glad it's not just me.


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## Nicholas Andrews (Sep 8, 2011)

Lanie Jordan said:


> Personally, I've always viewed it this way:
> 
> 5k-10k: Short story
> 10k-20k: Novellete
> ...


Again, it can vary by genre. An 80,000 word fantasy novel is considered short. Most are between 100,000-150,000 words, with the doorstoppers usually coming in at over 200,000.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

It's very genre-specific. For YA, you can have "novels" as low as 45-50K (with most in the 60K+ range).

For romance, 50-65K is considered "category length." A "category romance" are shorter romances that are branded by the imprint and the particular line will be known for certain things, like Mills & Boon Medical (obvious), Harlequin Presents (lots of sheiks and royalty), Harlequin Desire (lots of billionaires and alpha males), Harlequin American Romance (obviously American settings and tends to be more emphasis on small towns and "hearth and home"), Entangled Brazen (spicy and lots of alphas), Entangled Indulgence (short historicals), etc.

For non-category romance, you'll want it to be in the 80-100K range.

I agree with the contention that most readers have no clue what a novelette is, especially outside of science fiction. I'd never heard the term until I started frequenting this forum, and I consider myself pretty well read. So I generally just use the term "short story" for anything below about 15K words, and then say "novella" for about 15K to 40K (although my writer's org, RWA, doesn't consider it a "novella" unless it's between 20K and 40K).


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

Scott Daniel said:


> I think most readers think of a novel as being at least 250 pages ... 75,000 words, roughly?


250 pages is more along the lines of 55-60k depending on how each publishing platform counts the pages.


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## KevinH (Jun 29, 2013)

I think that the trend is defintiely leaning towards making novels longer. The issue I have, however, is when novel length starts getting equated with better quality (eg, "I would have given it 5 stars, but it was only 200 pages long..."). Would_ Mars Attacks!_ have been a better movie if they tacked on 30 minutes of additional footage?


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

KevinH said:


> I think that the trend is defintiely leaning towards making novels longer. The issue I have, however, is when novel length starts getting equated with better quality (eg, "I would have given it 5 stars, but it was only 200 pages long..."). Would_ Mars Attacks!_ have been a better movie if they tacked on 30 minutes of additional footage?


I am so there with this line of thought. I would much rather read a short novel of 150-200 pages of a tightly written story than a 400 page story with 150 pages of squishy middle that should have been cut before the final release. Some authors write long novels tightly and well, but plenty I've read have tons of filler that seems like it's there to boost page count (in the habit of trad publishing requirements when they moved past 40k and sought more and more pages in the novels they published).


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

If it's below 50,000 words, I would not recommend trying to claim it's a novel. My advice: Don't try to claim something others will dispute, especially if in doing so you run the risk of negative reviews or damaging publicity. Call it a novella if it's under 50 k, a short novel if it's under 80 k, an epic only if it's over 120 k. Strive to claim less than you actually offer, so that when readers find more than they expected they're pleasantly surprised. Don't claim more than you actually offer unless you're prepared for unpleasant backlash.


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

Pearson Moore said:


> If it's below 50,000 words, I would not recommend trying to claim it's a novel.


Not sure if you're addressing me or the OP, but I'm comfortable claiming the 40K Nebula/Hugo standard for fantasy/scifi (whether dated or not- I see it as tradition) and have seen others do it with no backlash from readers.

I'm approaching this as more of an agree-to-disagree type of thing. Plenty of authors grew up reading short novels of 40k/approx 150 words, and don't see an issue with it, so they feel good about offering the same minimum word counts for short novels (myself included). Another 10k is only about 30 pages more. It's still in the same range as 50k, imo.

At the end of the day, we're all going to go with our own views, of course. These kinds of threads are educational, but they rarely change minds *-^


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Willo said:


> Not sure if you're addressing me or the OP, but I'm comfortable claiming the 40K Nebula/Hugo standard for fantasy/scifi (whether dated or not- I see it as tradition) and have seen others do it with no backlash from readers.


Just as I'm comfortable claimining anything above 40K is a novel because RWA also uses 40K as their threshold for the RITA and Golden Heart contests. And besides, I write younger-skewing contemporary YA (while fantasy and paranormal YA can often be doorstoppers, contemporary usually is much, much shorter).

At the end of the day, with an ebook, you don't have the same "feel" for length as you do with a print book and the reader can see how short or long something is just with a glance at the spine. So it really ends up going by how satisfying the experience is. I've read plenty of books billed as "novels" where I did think I read it quickly, but it must have been because I just devoured it (not because it was any shorter), only to discover that yeah, it was actually quite a bit shorter than the rest of that author's work. But it FELT complete and full at that length, and that's really all that matters. Would it have been a better book if the author spent an extra 30 pages with fluff and filler? Heck no. It would have been worse.


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## Pearson Moore (Mar 14, 2011)

There's a fairly regular contributor here at KB who designates his 5 k writings as 'novels'. Whatever floats your boat. I wrote a 28 k piece that has a really enjoyable reader environment. From a certain point of view I could claim the work as a novel. I think in the self-pub arena in general there is a tendency to wish to claim 40 k or even lower as a novel. There are all kinds of solid, rational justifications for this. In the end, I think the biggest justification is that writing a true novel takes too long and it's easy to just call that 39,000 word short a novel. Who's going to know any better, anyway? As one contributor to this thread pointed out, Kindles don't really track words or pages anyway, so what does it matter if I call my short piece a novel? I aim to avoid claiming more than I deliver, and I believe this is a sound practice for any writer. Convenience to me, or patting myself on the back for having accomplished anything, does not translate as a benefit to readers. Readers first, in my opinion. If I don't make that my objective, I will fail my readers.


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## Mark Philipson (Mar 9, 2013)

I don't like the terms Novelette or Novella. I always think of Norwegian Novelette for some reason and Novella sounds like a dessert.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Keep in mind that no matter what you do in regards to labeling and blurb, there will be some readers who'll complain that it's too short.

You can put in your blurb, "THIS IS THE SHORTEST FREAKING BOOK YOU'LL EVER READ!!!", and someone will post a review with, "I guess I was expecting something longer."


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

Amanda Brice said:


> Just as I'm comfortable claimining anything above 40K is a novel because RWA also uses 40K as their threshold for the RITA and Golden Heart contests. And besides, I write younger-skewing contemporary YA (while fantasy and paranormal YA can often be doorstoppers, contemporary usually is much, much shorter).
> 
> At the end of the day, with an ebook, you don't have the same "feel" for length as you do with a print book and the reader can see how short or long something is just with a glance at the spine.* So it really ends up going by how satisfying the experience is*. I've read plenty of books billed as "novels" where I did think I read it quickly, but it must have been because I just devoured it (not because it was any shorter), only to discover that yeah, it was actually quite a bit shorter than the rest of that author's work. But it FELT complete and full at that length, and that's really all that matters. Would it have been a better book if the author spent an extra 30 pages with fluff and filler? Heck no. It would have been worse.


(I bolded the one sentence *-^)

I very much agree. The experience is the most important thing. I'm not a filler lover, and though I don't like skipping, there was one doorstopper I read that spent like 50 pages talking about chamber pots and sleeping habits (really - the character was sharing every little insignificant thing that happened - had nothing to do with the plot) and interactions with minor characters that had zilch to do with the story. I can read either short or long/XXL novels, and love them both if they're written well. Soggy middles I do not love (but will tolerate if I must).


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Count me in the camp that never heard of a novelette before I came here to KBoards Writer's Cafe. I, too, think novelette is a silly term. It always makes me hungry for omelettes!

As for what to call my works, I think the best approach is to just say how many paperback pages they are. In order to find this out, I just change the page size to 5 x 8 in my word processor.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Willo said:


> I'm not a filler lover, and though I don't like skipping, there was one doorstopper I read that spent like 50 pages talking about chamber pots and sleeping habits (really - the character was sharing every little insignificant thing that happened - had nothing to do with the plot) and interactions with minor characters that had zilch to do with the story. I can read either short or long/XXL novels, and love them both if they're written well. Soggy middles I do not love (but will tolerate if I must).


Reminds me of 'The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo'. It wasn't that long, but there were stretches that just went on and on about nothing. Did he really have to include his IKEA shopping list?

He did the same thing in 'The Girl Who Played with Fire' with Fermat's Last Theorem, and it ended up having nothing to do with the plot. I kept thinking it was going to tie in somehow with some cool twist, but nothing.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I keep reading about all these books with fillers. I guess I have been lucky then, I don't come across those often, if any. And I prefer my books to be at least 200 pages. That is the very low end for me. 
Most of the novels I read are somewhere between 300-450 I think. Very very rarely can I think of any filler or soggy middle. 
I think the Outlander series has some segments that just drag on, but those books are 800-1000 pages, so I think that is expected.  

I do think that books are getting shorter when it comes to indies. I see this especially in the genres I read. When I click on a picture that I like and a blurb that I like and see the book is 130 pages, I move on to something else. That is a novella length for me and I rarely read those and only by certain authors and if they have been highly recommended by other readers. And maybe if they are in between full books in a series I love. 

I love romance, but I don't read a lot of the category length stuff, especially in the contempo lines. I find them just to abrupt, short and I often don't get a sense of the characters and stuff happens boom bam over. Shallow maybe? Not sure if I am using the right word.  
But many love them. 

For me personally as a reader, a novella has to be a minimum of 100 pages for me to even take a second look. Anything below to me is a short or a short story. 
Really though it comes down for me to books and short stories. Simpler.


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## KaryE (May 12, 2012)

I go by the standards of my genre (SFF), so my 8,200 word piece is a novelette, and my 55-60k WIP is a novel.

I realize the dividing lines are different in other genres, and I'm cool with that, but I think there's a danger when individuals take the terms into their own hands. A month or so ago I saw someone label a 5,000 word short as a novella. I think it's also dicey when people say "Well, I think anything under XXXXX words shouldn't be called a novel, so I use my own standards for what's a novella and what's a novel." 

Readers will never get a handle on the terms if we all use them in a manner inconsistent with the standards of our given genres.

ETA for clarity: I've got no beef with people's preferences as readers. I'm talking about the labels we put on our work as authors.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Willo said:


> Not sure if you're addressing me or the OP, but I'm comfortable claiming the 40K Nebula/Hugo standard for fantasy/scifi (whether dated or not- I see it as tradition) and have seen others do it with no backlash from readers.
> 
> I'm approaching this as more of an agree-to-disagree type of thing. Plenty of authors grew up reading *short novels of 40k/approx 150 words*, and don't see an issue with it, so they feel good about offering the same minimum word counts for short novels (myself included). Another 10k is only about 30 pages more. It's still in the same range as 50k, imo.
> 
> At the end of the day, we're all going to go with our own views, of course. These kinds of threads are educational, but they rarely change minds *-^


I think you have a typo in your sentence. But wanted to say some Louis L'Amour novels are only about 100 pages and they are novels not novellas or short stories.


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

40k is a novel, but adult publishers don't publish novels of that length anymore. More like 75k+.


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## Liz Davis (Dec 10, 2011)

This is a very helpful thread. Thanks.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

David Alastair Hayden said:


> 40k is a novel, but adult publishers don't publish novels of that length anymore. More like 75k+.


Again, it's very genre-specific. "Category romance" (which is most definitely published by adult publishers) are in the 45K-65K range (with most around 55K). The RITA Awards (RWA's top contest) has two length requirements: 20K-40K for novella, and 40K+ for novel.

The latest amendments to the rules (adopted this weekend and will go into effect for the 2014 contest, which is for books with a 2013 copyright date) breaks the Contemporary Romance category into two: Works below 65K words, and Works above 65K words. Please note the shorter one is NOT the novella category.

So like I said, it's really genre-specific. Know the conventions of your genre and follow them. And please don't go around stating that the conventions of your genre applicable across the board. They're not. They're applicable to your genre. Period.


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## Willo (May 10, 2013)

swolf said:


> Reminds me of 'The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo'. It wasn't that long, but there were stretches that just went on and on about nothing. Did he really have to include his IKEA shopping list?
> 
> He did the same thing in 'The Girl Who Played with Fire' with Fermat's Last Theorem, and it ended up having nothing to do with the plot. I kept thinking it was going to tie in somehow with some cool twist, but nothing.


I haven't read that series yet (my mother loved them, so I may - mainly I'm a fantasy geek), but I've read enough soggy middles/filler passage to think that some authors do it to pad their book's word count. Maybe at their editor's request. Sometimes, it may be a stab at meta-storytelling (with items like the Ikea shopping list, diary passages, etc), though.



Atunah said:


> I keep reading about all these books with fillers. I guess I have been lucky then, I don't come across those often, if any. And I prefer my books to be at least 200 pages.
> 
> For me personally as a reader, a novella has to be a minimum of 100 pages for me to even take a second look.


I was talking to a family member about page counts recently, and she's a 200 page minimum gal, as well. I'm way more flexible, but I can dig that everyone has their preferences. If a story grabs me (either with its premise or mesmerizing style), I'll read a serial or standalone "lunchtime read" in a heartbeat.

I tend to agree on the novella length being around 100 pages or so, though I'm in the camp that isn't annoyed calling a novelette a novelette if it's in the word count range set for that story label. I basically follow the industry listings.



David Alastair Hayden said:


> 40k is a novel, but adult publishers don't publish novels of that length anymore. More like 75k+.





KaryE said:


> I go by the standards of my genre (SFF), so my 8,200 word piece is a novelette, and my 55-60k WIP is a novel.
> 
> I realize the dividing lines are different in other genres, and I'm cool with that, but *I think there's a danger when individuals take the terms into their own hands*. A month or so ago I saw someone label a 5,000 word short as a novella.* I think it's also dicey when people say "Well, I think anything under XXXXX words shouldn't be called a novel, so I use my own standards for what's a novella and what's a novel.*"
> 
> ...


_(note: I'm responsible for the above bolding.)_

#Yes

I go with what's written out as a standard, keeping the original novel lengths in mind. Some folks (writers and readers alike) just don't feel a novel is full if it's less than 200-250 words. For others, that's still too short (I just read a review on a superhero-oriented novel complaining that 200 pages was a rip-off in so many words...). We all have our reading preferences, and I have zero problem with that.

I only draw the line, or hit the "ignore" button, when folks become arrogant or insulting with the "your book is shorter than mine, so it's not a novel in my world as I worked longer and harder and you're just misleading readers" type arguments  . We all work hard on our worlds and the characters/motivations therein regardless of size (barring the slush mills that will only be around as long as readers bear them). If awards committees at the head of our genres set a word-count at 40K and up for novels, I'm glad to follow it (labeling a novel short or long depending on its place on that scale).

People will see the word-count issue however they will, and purchase/publish accordingly. I'm not sure there'll be a group consensus on this anytime soon.



cinisajoy said:


> Wanted to say some Louis L'Amour novels are only about 100 pages and they are novels not novellas or short stories.


What genre does he write in? I tend to see 100 pagers as novellas. Are his books written so fully they feel like novels, or do you consider them actual novels?



Amanda Brice said:


> So like I said, it's really genre-specific. Know the conventions of your genre and follow them. And please don't go around stating that the conventions of your genre applicable across the board. They're not. They're applicable to your genre. Period.


I think this is reasonable.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I wrote a 40k word novel. Not one single review or reader has complained about the length. Personally, I like shorter books.  A lot of the modern word count is an artificial inflation that happened because publishers needed to raise the cost of mass market paperbacks and had to justify that to the readers. Adding 100 pages is pretty cheap (especially when the advance for a 100k novel is the same as it used to be for a 60k one) if you can raise the cost of the book a couple bucks.  Novel advances and short story word rates haven't changed much since the pulp era (inflation-proof!) but book costs have gone way way up.  Easiest way to justify that, pay the help (ie the author) the same 5k advance but ask him/her to do twice as much work! 

I think as long as the story feels finished and full, length isn't as important as we think.  Look at Bridges of Madison County, which is one of the bestselling novels of all time. It's 32k words. Yep.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

JanThompson said:


> Please forgive me if this has been asked before. I googled and found conflicting information, some from years ago, some newer but not all the same numbers. I search the KB site and found conflicting numbers in the search results.
> 
> If I am correct, in tradpub, short stories can be 5K - 10K words. NYT suspense novels are about 100K. Romance can be maybe 60K - 80K. General fiction, maybe 70K - 80K. Are these ballpack figures about right for selfpubbed too?
> 
> ...


The general guidelines don't change much, Jan. Indie or traditional doesn't have much to do with that.

But here are the traditional length-divisions that WRITER'S MARKET and WRITER'S DIGEST always preached in the 1980s when I was getting my start as a writer.

Short stories: 500 words to 10,000. (Though most magazine editors in the 80s rarely bought anything over 5K, unless it was from Stephen King or some other huge name.)

Novelettes: 10K words to 20K words.

Novellas: 20K words to 45K words. (Some will contest this even today, saying it's too low, but Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury has always been called a novel, not a novella, and it runs 46,118 words.)

Novels: 45K and up.

Since the 1980s, new forms like flash-fiction have evolved.

And there are some people who argue for new categories like "epic novels" that are over 200K or whatnot.

But to keep things simple, these are the categories and lengths I grew up on. I think for the most part, they still work.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Personally, I think given the trend toward people not understanding the difference between a novelette and a novella anymore, if I could change anything, I'd simplify the categories like so:

Short story: 500 to 20,000 words

Short novel: 20,000 to 45,000 words

Novel: 45,000 words and up.

But that's me...


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Thank you, everyone, for your input. Very informative.

I can see that my thriller and contemporary are about the right length, but my historical and MG need adjustment re: word count.

I also see that maybe I'm not cut out for novelettes. I either write too little or too much. But never say never 

Thanks again!


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## TiffanyTurner (Jun 8, 2009)

C.C. Kelly said:


> I think it is:
> 
> Short story = less than 7.5k
> Novelette = 7.5k to 17.5k
> ...


Thanks. This helps. Looks like I just finished writing the first draft of a Paranormal Novelette. Fast and furious. Was trying to figure whether it is a novella or novelette.  Thought it would be a bit longer, but the characters decided otherwise tonight.


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## pauldude000 (May 22, 2013)

This is just to "put it out there", so to speak, but we writers should know that pages size is not a good indicator of word count or actual book size.

Actual page size, as determined by kindle, is based upon the physical book page count. That page count is determined by spacing, formatting conventions, and font size, and not so much by word count.

For instance, in my novel I dropped a font size from the suggested size in order to pull the page count down. I did this to make the paperback version published price more reasonable, as that cost is determined in part by page count. However, the kindle book version reflects the page count of the paperback version, which is no standard of comparison with the same page count offered on another author's book which uses the larger suggested font.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

PaulDude,

Interesting post, but not really the topic at hand.

We're not talking about "you show me yours, I'll show you mine" on page counts or anything remotely like that.

We're talking about where the breaking-point is between industry-standard story lengths.

Many of us in here know plenty about how font selection and sizes can affect length... but that was not the topic at hand.


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> PaulDude,
> 
> Interesting post, but not really the topic at hand.
> 
> ...


Plenty of people were referring to page counts in this thread. Not sure I understand the point of your post.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

pauldude000 said:


> This is just to "put it out there", so to speak, but we writers should know that pages size is not a good indicator of word count or actual book size.
> 
> Actual page size, as determined by kindle, is based upon the physical book page count. That page count is determined by spacing, formatting conventions, and font size, and not so much by word count.
> 
> For instance, in my novel I dropped a font size from the suggested size in order to pull the page count down. I did this to make the paperback version published price more reasonable, as that cost is determined in part by page count. However, the kindle book version reflects the page count of the paperback version, which is no standard of comparison with the same page count offered on another author's book which uses the larger suggested font.


All this is true, but it is geared toward selling to publishers. Readers speak in number of pages.


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