# Spiritual and Inspiration Literature Genre Thread



## Craig

Hello everybody. This thread is for discussing writing that touches on spiritual or religious themes, whether it is something you've written or read. So talk about your book here, or about your favorite authors of faith, from Chaucer to Dostoevsky to O'Connor. Doctrinal issues no doubt will come up, but this is not a forum for conversion or condemnation, so please, no sniping.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0041D8XGK


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## ThompsonWrites

I'll kick it off and ask if anyone reads spiritual books while they read fiction or non fiction? I am in the middle of a book called Rich God, Poor God and am struggling to not get my thoughts confused with an ebook titled Sex by Anna David. I'm also reading a few essays by Klosterman which is why I'm curious of what others do? 

How often do others read spiritual literature, Bible, Koran, Mormons included?


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## Raybrite

My first book(let) was called _The Lord's Prayer_ by Kenneth J. ****. It was written to inspire thought about what we are saying. Many are just going through the words and have forgotten what they are praying for. It sells for .99 which was the lowest Amazon would let me sell it for.


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## ThompsonWrites

Raybrite said:


> My first book(let) was called _The Lord's Prayer_ by Kenneth J. ****. It was written to inspire thought about what we are saying. Many are just going through the words and have forgotten what they are praying for. It sells for .99 which was the lowest Amazon would let me sell it for.


Awesome, congrats on the book and great price point. How have you found it selling? What other boards are you involved in regarding the marketing process?


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## Raybrite

It has sold 4 copies as on today. It has been out for about a week. I just listed it on The Book Bazaar. I am working on some short stories now to combine into a small book.
I am just getting started so it will take awhile.


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## Laura Lond

I have a Christian fantasy trilogy out, it is doing quite well. Of course, there is always the risk of someone who can't stand any spiritual themes picking up the books and writing a scathing review, but I guess it comes with the territory.


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## ThompsonWrites

Laura Lond said:


> I have a Christian fantasy trilogy out, it is doing quite well. Of course, there is always the risk of someone who can't stand any spiritual themes picking up the books and writing a scathing review, but I guess it comes with the territory.


How have you found kindleboards when promoting your books? The spiritual genre seems paltry on the discussion boards.


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## AnnetteL

I'll take a stab at ThompsonWrites' question.

I think that first you have to define "spiritual literature"--does that include just scriptural texts or fiction? I'll address both.

On scripture: As a practicing Mormon, I can say that we're encouraged to study scripture daily (both personally and with family)--and our scriptures include the Bible. My mother (also practicing Mormon) has found great insights in reading other religious texts and has great respect for the Quran, Talmud, and many other writings.

When it comes to fiction, I have a hard time writing stories that don't involve spirituality on some level. I have seven novels published with a publisher that focuses on the LDS (Mormon) market, and it's been a good fit for me. My last novel with them (_Band of Sisters_) was something I started writing w/out having any intention of making it spiritual (or Mormon) at all. But then a scene here and a scene there popped up, and next thing I knew, some spirituality showed up after all.

I figure that writing is such a personal thing that part of who I am inevitably comes out--and I'm a spiritual person, so I can't escape that in my work.

I cringe, though, at spiritual fiction that's didactic and preachy. If a lesson grows organically, great. But I don't intentionally set out "teach" anything. (Tried that once in a manuscript that will _never _see the light of day.)


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## Craig

Laura Lond said:


> I have a Christian fantasy trilogy out, it is doing quite well. Of course, there is always the risk of someone who can't stand any spiritual themes picking up the books and writing a scathing review, but I guess it comes with the territory.


I think this is the real challenge of writing Christian fiction: Give the reader a story that can be enjoyed even if the spiritual themes aren't recognized. I've tried to do this with "The Job" by using humor and also using a corporate setting, which I think a lot of people can empathize with. If we're preachy about our themes, I think we hurt ourselves in the long run. C.S. Lewis mentions in some of his letters that reviewers liked his Sci-Fi trilogy, but completely missed the spiritual application. I went into my project with that in mind and tried to make the writing justify itself, beyond the Christian themes.


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## Laura Lond

ThompsonWrites said:


> How have you found kindleboards when promoting your books? The spiritual genre seems paltry on the discussion boards.


Kindleboards is very friendly and helpful. I have been marketing my books as both Christian fantasy and just fantasy. I don't have the whole gospel re-told in it, so I think non-Christians can enjoy the books as well, as long as they are not opposed to the very idea of a supreme being and spirits, good and bad. With fantasy though, I don't think spiritual themes are that offensive; after all, supernatural occurrences, spiritual beings and such are very common for the genre.

I agree that we probably won't be very successful if we set out to "write a Christian book" that teaches this or that lesson. It will be preachy. I just try to write stories that are brewing inside of me, as best as I can. My worldview still shows, whether the book is about something faith-related or not. I think it echoes what Annette has said.


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## Neo22

I believe there are people who would like to read true Christian testimony. I don't mean theory, but practical living. Yes, it might not be popular, but that's not the point. Many would not talk about it, but need help and are searching for answers. Christians have to be prepared their book might be only read by a few.


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## coffeetx

I am very excited about this thread.  I have been looking everywhere on Kindle Boards to find a group that is specifically for those writing in the religious genre (whether it be nonfiction or fiction).  I am very excited to check out the fantasy trilogy mentioned above by another poster.  I have always loved to write but never set out to write a book until recently.  I recently discovered indie writers with my new kindle and it has been so much fun.  I am currently reading lots of indie writers in all genres and plan to review and promote as much as I can to help out.  I have begun writing a book (my first ever) and it is fictional but will have Christian themes.  I would love to meet others in this genre to support, encourage, and get ideas for how to promote (when the time comes).  Also I would love to read and review others on a blog I am going to start and help promote their work too.  Maybe this will be a regular thread now? I am really looking forward to it.


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## coffeetx

ThompsonWrites said:


> I'll kick it off and ask if anyone reads spiritual books while they read fiction or non fiction? I am in the middle of a book called Rich God, Poor God and am struggling to not get my thoughts confused with an ebook titled Sex by Anna David. I'm also reading a few essays by Klosterman which is why I'm curious of what others do?
> 
> How often do others read spiritual literature, Bible, Koran, Mormons included?


I read a lot of nonfiction spiritual literature. I read a lot of Christian nonfiction. I always have one nonfiction and one fiction book going at once.


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## coffeetx

Laura Lond said:


> I have been marketing my books as both Christian fantasy and just fantasy.


Can't beat your price. I just bought Book One. Is it children's lit? It looks like my 10 year old might like it. Can't wait to read it!


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## Craig

coffeetx said:


> Can't beat your price. I just bought Book One. Is it children's lit? It looks like my 10 year old might like it. Can't wait to read it!


If you're interested in fantasy, you might want to check out my other books, "Feallengod: The Conflict in the Heavenlies" and "Wars of the Aoten." They're both more in the school of Beowuilf-style fantasy than Harry Potter (not knowing your tastes). Here are links:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ELAMJK
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047DWZUE


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## coffeetx

Craig said:


> If you're interested in fantasy, you might want to check out my other books, "Feallengod: The Conflict in the Heavenlies" and "Wars of the Aoten." They're both more in the school of Beowuilf-style fantasy than Harry Potter (not knowing your tastes). Here are links:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ELAMJK
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047DWZUE


Thanks. I'll check it out!


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## Craig

coffeetx said:


> Thanks. I'll check it out!


Extensive free samples are available at Smashwords


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## Victorine

ThompsonWrites said:


> I'll kick it off and ask if anyone reads spiritual books while they read fiction or non fiction? I am in the middle of a book called Rich God, Poor God and am struggling to not get my thoughts confused with an ebook titled Sex by Anna David. I'm also reading a few essays by Klosterman which is why I'm curious of what others do?
> 
> How often do others read spiritual literature, Bible, Koran, Mormons included?


I'm LDS (Mormon) and our family reads the scriptures daily. (Book of Mormon and the Bible) I also read non-religious books all the time. My own work isn't religious, although the characters are pretty moral. (Except for the murderer...)

I'm currently reading Lost Without You by Annette, and enjoying it. It's what I would consider LDS fiction. I'm not sure you have to be LDS to understand the book, although there are references in it that people of other faiths might not understand.

I also read christian romance novels. I don't mind the religion in them, but sometimes it does seem forced.

I read non-religious books all the time, but I won't read anything with sex scenes or a lot of violence. That's probably why I like YA so much. 

Vicki


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## julieannfelicity

In my first book I didn't intend to make it christian fiction, but a lot of taggers have felt my book is part of that genre. There is violence and rape (rape and sex are two totally different things in my mind), but it is inspirational. My MC has the opportunity to have sex with her love interest, but they don't. They sleep beside each other, which I felt was sweet and more meaningful. Perhaps that is why it was tagged 'christian fiction'?

My next WIP, From Heaven, has a religious theme, but it is far from preachy. It is meant for the YA audience, so there isn't a lot of bloody violence or sex; actually I don't think there's any of either.

I'm a non-practicing Catholic (though baptized Protestant by my biological mother, and biological father is Jewish). I'm spiritual, but certainly not overzealous. As a child I had a children's bible that I loved to read. I was particularly fond of the Leah and her sister story. Not sure why.


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## Laura Lond

coffeetx said:


> Can't beat your price. I just bought Book One. Is it children's lit? It looks like my 10 year old might like it. Can't wait to read it!


Thank you for buying! I hope you both like it. The book is perfectly appropriate for children, there is no questionable content. So far, my youngest reader (that I know of) of this trilogy is 7, and the oldest is 101. Both loved it.


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## CraigInOregon

In terms of what I read, I'm always going through some novel or another. But (as my profile photo probably hints at) I am a spiritual-minded person so I'm also reading theological/inspirational stuff at any given time as well.

Current example: The novel I'm reading through right now is 33 A.D. by David McAfee. The spiritual/theological book I'm going through is an Aramaic Targum of the book of Genesis (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan).

For those who don't know, 33 A.D. is a vampire thriller by McAfee, set in first-century Jerusalem around the time the author imagines Christ was put to death on the cross. It's an interesting mix of history and fiction, but it's not a "Christian" novel by any stretch.

I don't particularly go out of my way to read books with Christian themes. In part, I think that's because a lot of the fiction I've encountered from authors who go out of their way to write "Christian fiction" often comes off as preachy and didactic. Even authors whose work I've occasionally enjoyed seem to slip into this.

So as far as my novel-reading habits, I do appreciate novels that offer less of the "sex, violence and profanity" that some novels indulge in, but then again, I enjoy some genres that have a bit more of this than I typically prefer.

Example: I love "catch a serial killer" thrillers of the James Patterson variety. Kind of hard to completely avoid sex, violence and profanity, in that genre.

I think profanity will put me off more quickly than anything. Graphic sex is the next-quickest trigger; I prefer some discretion. I probably have a higher tolerance for violence, but mostly because I enjoy genres where, if you don't have some violence, you don't have much of a story.

(By which I mean... thrillers, mysteries, action-oriented fantasy... if no one dies, there's no mystery to solve or serial killer to catch... if there's no showdown between the MC and the antagonist, it's not much of an action novel.)

So that's why I probably have a higher tolerance level... the genres I enjoy tend to necessitate some level of violence. But whether I keep reading depends entirely on how it's written. Even with violence, there are ways to exercise some restraint and discretion.

I suspect I read a lot of stuff people who define themselves as spiritual wouldn't typically read. But hey, I grew up reading Stephen King more than any other author (and he's excellent at skills like building characters and such) and that was before faith took a central role in my life.

As a writer, I have two venues in which I write.

Right now, I'm concentrating on my fiction work with EMBER being my front-burner project. It's kind of a suspense-thriller with a supernatural touch, something that sits on the remote edge of the superhero genre without ever indulging in capes and masks. (Think HEROES or something, maybe, rather than SPIDER-MAN.)

I suspect I'll end up calling EMBER a YA novel, as well, so that folks know it's not filled with gratuitous elements. But I'm also going to lean on the suggestions of my beta readers to help me decide whether that's a good fit for EMBER or not. My MC has a rather dark home-life, so whether that will pull it out of YA or not, I'm not sure.

But see, I subscribe to the idea that you really have to put your MC through the gauntlet because that's what creates drama and story. You stack the conflicts and odds against them and how they overcome all that is what makes them heroic.

I don't think I'd define EMBER as Christian (or Messianic, my particular brand of faith) fiction by any stretch. I'm very genuine in my faith, but when I'm writing fiction, it's intended as mainstream entertainment. Hopefully family-safe, and a reflection of my values to a degree. But no religious elements.

Maybe something will seep through because I think parts of us always seep through into our work... but no intentional, overt religious content, other than that in my fiction, I don't completely ignore the idea that some people go to church, know each other from there, etc.

But in my fiction, I don't have anyone sitting in a congregation, listening to a sermon that I add verbatim to the novel.

Now, the other part of my writing life will be that I will be writing some religious/theological/inspirational works. Things that will be based on sermons and such I've given, or Messianic apologetics stuff or whatnot.

I'm just as genuine about my Messianic writing as I am about my novel writing, and I don't intend to create a pen name to separate these two very different types of writing.

However, I plan to promote my religious writing on my Messianic blog, and my fiction on my author's blog. That way, those who are interested in my fiction work don't have to have any of my theological stuff "in their face" on Craig-Hansen.com, and those who enjoy my religious writing don't have to have my mainstream ficiton "in their face" either.

But both blogs link to each other. So if someone ends up interested in both types of writing I do, it's not hidden, either.

I'm talked out about this now... hopefully it's coherent.


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## Craig

julieannfelicity said:


> In my first book I didn't intend to make it christian fiction, but a lot of taggers have felt my book is part of that genre. There is violence and rape (rape and sex are two totally different things in my mind), but it is inspirational. My MC has the opportunity to have sex with her love interest, but they don't. They sleep beside each other, which I felt was sweet and more meaningful. Perhaps that is why it was tagged 'christian fiction'?
> 
> My next WIP, From Heaven, has a religious theme, but it is far from preachy. It is meant for the YA audience, so there isn't a lot of bloody violence or sex; actually I don't think there's any of either.
> 
> I'm a non-practicing Catholic (though baptized Protestant by my biological mother, and biological father is Jewish). I'm spiritual, but certainly not overzealous. As a child I had a children's bible that I loved to read. I was particularly fond of the Leah and her sister story. Not sure why.


Many of the Christian publishers I've had contact with over the years do seem to want characters to have pretty much impeccable morals, so you may be right about how you got that label. Unfortunately, I think that's one of the reasons books aimed at evangelicals are often superficial. It's just not an honest approach to the human condition. Many of the great Christian books I've read, for instance Frederick Buechner's "Brendan" and (particularly) "Godric," don't gloss over some very real problems within their Christian characters. Also, pushing moral behavior within a story can easily devolve into legalism.

Our media is saturated with superficial violence and sex, which makes those things less effective tools to make a point. Flannery O'Connor often used sometimes shocking violence to make a statement about humanity and grace. As one critic said, "Depicting the worst in human nature is for O'Connor an act of faith, a repetition of God's intention to shock us into grace." Violence was the way she illustrated that shock. Christian authors and publishers both should not be afraid of the truth of the human condition.

By the way, here's the link to "The Job" thread here: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,40980.0.html. Everything you need to know there.


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## harpwriter

Craig said:


> Many of the Christian publishers I've had contact with over the years do seem to want characters to have pretty much impeccable morals, so you may be right about how you got that label. Unfortunately, I think that's one of the reasons books aimed at evangelicals are often superficial. It's just not an honest approach to the human condition.


Amen to that seems like the appropriate response in this thread! It also seems to me from the Christian fiction I've read that change and conversion is unrealistically easy. Someone wise and religious finally explains it right (whereas no one else ever did, apparently) and BOOM! it's instant conversion. I'm glad Christian fiction is out there, btw, but I do think it's often preaching to the choir, and that most people can't really relate AT ALL to those characters. Secular fiction, on the other hand, largely ignores the fact that most people do think about God and faith, and it's fairly normal to be part of a church. But nobody ever goes in novels, nobody ever talks about it.

It sounds like I'm in good company trying to find that balance. My characters think about God, they struggle, their values differ greatly from one to another, some fail to live up to those values. There are no instant conversions. (Would you like fries with that conversion?) People try and slip again. Yes, the womanizer does all sorts of profane things. But it's never graphic. And there are Christian themes, such as forgiveness and redemption.


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## harpwriter

Sorry for a second reply.  Does anyone else's reply box blink like crazy and not let you see the whole thing when you write too much?  (They probably knew a bunch of novelists would try to write 55K replies otherwise!  )

To answer the other question, I'm Catholic.  First question I'm always asked when people find out how many kids I have!  We go to church, I often go to Perpetual Adoration where I do spiritual reading on prayer or lives of the saints, I read the Bible (trying for daily, but struggling to be consistent), we say a decade of the Rosary as a family the nights I'm home.


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## Laura Lond

harpwriter said:


> There are no instant conversions.


EXACTLY. I don't know how many times I have seen this flaw in Christian novels: someone converts and BOOM! - they suddenly know all the Bible, all the implications, all the right ways to act in different situations. It just doesn't happen this way in real life. I was raised an atheist; when I had become interested in God at the age of around 14, I picked up grandma's New Testament, read it, and understood _nothing._ Salvation for me was a process, not a one-time occurrence. I suspect I'm not the only one.


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## AnnetteL

Laura, You nailed it--conversion (and frankly, faith of any kind) is a life-long process, not a one-time KABOOM.

One reviewer called my _At the Water's Edge _ a conversion story, which bugged me to no end. It opens AFTER she is converted, and the story is about the fallout of that decision once she topples the first domino. It's a romance as well as a story about a young woman trying to find her way with a lot of crap thrown into her path.

And like Vicki said, _Lost Without You_ (like ATWE) is LDS fiction--part of the story revolves around an LDS doctrine, for that matter--but I tried to make it about the_ characters_ and the _story_. No one gets supernatural epiphanies from beyond that solve everything. Life just isn't a deus ex machina, and books shouldn't be either.

(Vicki's reading my book, people. VICKI!)


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## harpwriter

AnnetteL said:


> Laura, You nailed it--conversion (and frankly, faith of any kind) is a life-long process, not a one-time KABOOM.


You took the words right out of my keyboard!  I was going to say that even raised as a Catholic, I find it a life-long pursuit to learn and do and be what Christianity calls us to be. I wonder if some of those books cause some people to despair, when they don't just become perfect and _happy_ to be perfect in the blink of an eye.


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## Victorine

AnnetteL said:


> (Vicki's reading my book, people. VICKI!)


And I'm really enjoying it, too.  I'll have to recommend it to my LDS friends. 

Vicki


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## adamelijah

I'm a Christian and my novel, "Tales of the Dim Knight" is an unusual novel to have a spiritual element it as its a Superhero Comedy with a family element mixed in.

http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Dim-Knight-ebook/dp/B004C43H8C

Dave is the hero of the story, and he gets superpowers and goes about doing the Superhero thing as best he knows how and that leads to a lot of comedy. However, despite his good conditions, he makes mistakes, and he struggles with how to reconcile that. Along way, he runs into some Christians who sacrafice their lives.

His wife meanwhile struggles as a result of being raised in a spiritually abusive situation.

Even the Alien Symbiote, Zolgron who is the source of Dave's superpowers has a lesson to learn.

One thing is that the epiphanies come in the last chapter. People have talked about a sequel. I'll definitely be mindful of not having our heroes speak Christianese and having all the answers down pat.


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## coffeetx

Craig said:


> Flannery O'Connor often used sometimes shocking violence to make a statement about humanity and grace. As one critic said, "Depicting the worst in human nature is for O'Connor an act of faith, a repetition of God's intention to shock us into grace." Violence was the way she illustrated that shock. Christian authors and publishers both should not be afraid of the truth of the human condition.


Yes! I totally agree!!


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## Craig

adamelijah said:


> "Tales of the Dim Knight" is an unusual novel to have a spiritual element it as its a Superhero Comedy with a family element mixed in.


My book, "The Job," is also written with humor, even though it is about suffering. I think that's another valid topic for discussion, since so much humor these days is lowest-common-denominator. It's a challenge to get people to laugh without being a poor representative of Christ.

So anyway, "The Job" is about suffering, and I do come to some conclusions, but no simple answers. There are no simple answers.


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## ThompsonWrites

Neo22 said:


> I believe there are people who would like to read true Christian testimony. I don't mean theory, but practical living. Yes, it might not be popular, but that's not the point. Many would not talk about it, but need help and are searching for answers. Christians have to be prepared their book might be only read by a few.


I like your book covers, simple and easy to read. Nice.


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## ThompsonWrites

AnnetteL said:


> I'll take a stab at ThompsonWrites' question.
> 
> I think that first you have to define "spiritual literature"--does that include just scriptural texts or fiction? I'll address both.
> 
> On scripture: As a practicing Mormon, I can say that we're encouraged to study scripture daily (both personally and with family)--and our scriptures include the Bible. My mother (also practicing Mormon) has found great insights in reading other religious texts and has great respect for the Quran, Talmud, and many other writings.
> 
> When it comes to fiction, I have a hard time writing stories that don't involve spirituality on some level. I have seven novels published with a publisher that focuses on the LDS (Mormon) market, and it's been a good fit for me. My last novel with them (_Band of Sisters_) was something I started writing w/out having any intention of making it spiritual (or Mormon) at all. But then a scene here and a scene there popped up, and next thing I knew, some spirituality showed up after all.
> 
> I figure that writing is such a personal thing that part of who I am inevitably comes out--and I'm a spiritual person, so I can't escape that in my work.
> 
> I cringe, though, at spiritual fiction that's didactic and preachy. If a lesson grows organically, great. But I don't intentionally set out "teach" anything. (Tried that once in a manuscript that will _never _see the light of day.)


Great description.


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## ThompsonWrites

coffeetx said:


> I am very excited about this thread. I have been looking everywhere on Kindle Boards to find a group that is specifically for those writing in the religious genre (whether it be nonfiction or fiction). I am very excited to check out the fantasy trilogy mentioned above by another poster. I have always loved to write but never set out to write a book until recently. I recently discovered indie writers with my new kindle and it has been so much fun. I am currently reading lots of indie writers in all genres and plan to review and promote as much as I can to help out. I have begun writing a book (my first ever) and it is fictional but will have Christian themes. I would love to meet others in this genre to support, encourage, and get ideas for how to promote (when the time comes). Also I would love to read and review others on a blog I am going to start and help promote their work too. Maybe this will be a regular thread now? I am really looking forward to it.


Great to have you. Please feel free to jump in on this thread as often as possible so we can attract others who many not know it is available. Look forward to seeing your book published. Feel free to get in contact with myself and others in this discussion. I'm sure you wil find a wealth of information or assistance.


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## ThompsonWrites

Victorine said:


> I'm LDS (Mormon) and our family reads the scriptures daily. (Book of Mormon and the Bible) I also read non-religious books all the time. My own work isn't religious, although the characters are pretty moral. (Except for the murderer...)
> 
> I'm currently reading Lost Without You by Annette, and enjoying it. It's what I would consider LDS fiction. I'm not sure you have to be LDS to understand the book, although there are references in it that people of other faiths might not understand.
> 
> I also read christian romance novels. I don't mind the religion in them, but sometimes it does seem forced.
> 
> I read non-religious books all the time, but I won't read anything with sex scenes or a lot of violence. That's probably why I like YA so much.
> 
> Vicki


Vicki - do you ever read personal development or self esteem books? How do you find this genre to coincide with LDS? I'm not as familiar with LDS market. I'm working on a book that includes a modern translation of Biblical character (Joseph, David). This book falls into non fiction, personal development.


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## CraigInOregon

I hesitate to write category "Christian" fiction (or Messianic or anything else) for many reasons.

First, I think it just dramatically limits a writer's potential audience.

Second, by nature, it dramatically limits creative freedom. (I've literally seen guidelines from some faith-based publishers where writers were given long lists of not just themes and actions that were forbidden, but words that were blacklisted, as well.)

Third, to fit into that market, one is usually required to include elements that break the narrative flow. (e.g., a sharing of the plan of salvation, a sermon, etc.)

In fact, I could go on and on and on... but I would be generalizeing the probably end up ticking some people off who I by and large am in agreement with and appreciate, so... what's the point?

I'm not saying I don't enjoy the writing of some who operate in this area/category. But it's not for me.

Does my brand of faith affect my worldview and ultimately, therefore, my fiction? Sure, probably, even when I'm writing mainstream fiction.

But if I set out to write a sermon, I'll write one.

If I set out to write a novel, then I'll write a novel. I'm not sure I want to blur those lines.

I want the freedom to portray the problems my characters face without offering a solution that doesn't ring true... ahh, I better hush before I get into trouble...


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## ThompsonWrites

CraigInTwinCities said:


> In terms of what I read, I'm always going through some novel or another. But (as my profile photo probably hints at) I am a spiritual-minded person so I'm also reading theological/inspirational stuff at any given time as well.
> 
> Current example: The novel I'm reading through right now is 33 A.D. by David McAfee. The spiritual/theological book I'm going through is an Aramaic Targum of the book of Genesis (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan).


You wouldn't happen to know any information eluding to the wealth of Jacob in the Bible? In particular, I am interested in the estimated value of his gift to Esau (believe it is genesis 32 or 33). If not, no worries.


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## ThompsonWrites

harpwriter said:


> Sorry for a second reply. Does anyone else's reply box blink like crazy and not let you see the whole thing when you write too much? (They probably knew a bunch of novelists would try to write 55K replies otherwise! )
> 
> To answer the other question, I'm Catholic. First question I'm always asked when people find out how many kids I have! We go to church, I often go to Perpetual Adoration where I do spiritual reading on prayer or lives of the saints, I read the Bible (trying for daily, but struggling to be consistent), we say a decade of the Rosary as a family the nights I'm home.


welcome - love catholics. I was raised catholic (south side of Chicago) and many of my friends are catholic but I never ask them how many kids they have, maybe that is a girl thing?


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## CraigInOregon

ThompsonWrites said:


> You wouldn't happen to know any information eluding to the wealth of Jacob in the Bible? In particular, I am interested in the estimated value of his gift to Esau (believe it is genesis 32 or 33). If not, no worries.


Not handy at the moment; I can probably find something later tonight when I am at home.


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## Victorine

ThompsonWrites said:


> Vicki - do you ever read personal development or self esteem books? How do you find this genre to coincide with LDS? I'm not as familiar with LDS market. I'm working on a book that includes a modern translation of Biblical character (Joseph, David). This book falls into non fiction, personal development.


Personally, I've never read any personal development or self esteem books that weren't LDS focused, just because our church doctrine is fairly LDS specific. But I don't think there's anything stopping a member of the LDS church in reading a personal development book written by a non-LDS person.

Your book sounds interesting, tell me a little more about it.

Vicki


----------



## ThompsonWrites

I am not the cursing type but when I write, my mind gets stuck and wants to fill the blank with a curse word. I know this is a major writing flaw. What do you all think if I were to use the word "expletive" as a filler? This question is for my current book in progress, non fiction, personal development, pop culture. I have also thought of using the word "cuss" and allow the reader fill in the blank. If any of you have seen the film Fantastic Mr. Fox, they use the "cuss" strategy during the film. I am also a huge fan of the director Wes Anderson.

example sentence
_Now that we have established why some of these numbers seem inflated, let's take a step back at what the expletive we just saw. _


----------



## CraigInOregon

I find handling cussing through narrative to be more natural, when cussing seems necessary.

*EXAMPLE:*

The hammer landed on Ember's thumb. "D--n it," she shouted. (This would be what I would avoid.)

The hammer landed on Ember's thumb. She cursed. (This is how I generally handle it.)

_For your example, what's wrong with:_

Now that we have established why some of these numbers seem inflated, let's take a step back at what we just saw.

See, if it's not dialog, I don't see the necessity... unless it's first-person narrative.


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## ThompsonWrites

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Not handy at the moment; I can probably find something later tonight when I am at home.


Wow, that would be amazing. I have asked my father, who is a minister and he has come up blank. I'm asking because I would like to include modern day value estimates of Jacob. I'm writing a chapter on his son Joseph, who I call, the Rich White Kid. I would like to warrant the title "Rich White Kid" with better quantification of his fathers assets. Thanks in advance.


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## ThompsonWrites

Victorine said:


> Your book sounds interesting, tell me a little more about it.
> 
> Vicki


I use biotech evidence and research to gain a dollar valuation of our human body. The goal is for the reader to understand their estimated monetary value so they can effectively manage a potentially appreciating asset. Science and elevated healthcare costs show us the high value placed on our bodies. Humans tend to invest where they see value. My hope is for readers to see this new investment. _I know that I have invested more in myself since seeing some of these numbers, maybe someone else will too_.


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## Craig

CraigInTwinCities said:


> See, if it's not dialog, I don't see the necessity... unless it's first-person narrative.


I'm with you. I've read a lot of secular writing in which there's so much profanity that it becomes self-parody. Beuchner uses expletives, but so seldom that they really have impact, and they are spoken through a character. Similarly, O'Connor makes frequent use of the "n-word," as we like to say, but always through her characters and always staying true to the time and place of her stories. As the narrator, she uses "*****," the polite word at her time.

My first book, "Feallengod," revolves around the Satan character, and one agent complained that I once have him say "damn."


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## Craig

I just reread that last post and noticed the website inserted the "*".


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## daveconifer

AnnetteL said:


> I figure that writing is such a personal thing that part of who I am inevitably comes out--and I'm a spiritual person, so I can't escape that in my work.
> 
> I cringe, though, at spiritual fiction that's didactic and preachy. If a lesson grows organically, great. But I don't intentionally set out "teach" anything. (Tried that once in a manuscript that will _never _see the light of day.)


Very well said, Annette. I find that the people from whom I learn the most are the ones who don't need a sledgehammer as a teaching aid.


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## harpwriter

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Third, to fit into that market, one is usually required to include elements that break the narrative flow. (e.g., a sharing of the plan of salvation, a sermon, etc.)
> 
> Does my brand of faith affect my worldview and ultimately, therefore, my fiction? Sure, probably, even when I'm writing mainstream fiction.
> 
> I want the freedom to portray the problems my characters face without offering a solution that doesn't ring true... ahh, I better hush before I get into trouble...


In agreement on everything, but especially these three. I recently read a Christian novel that I struggled to get through because I simply don't know _anyone_ who just constantly quotes the Bible and says, "Well, we all know that Verse Such and Such Chapter So and So says that....blahblahblah." (And isn't that sort of using your characters to tell the reader what you, the author, want to tell them?) This whole book was really just a sermon delivered by characters and calling itself a novel.

I write--I hope--realistically about the world around me (okay, okay, apart from the time travel thing!), and my faith absolutely will affect that. But realistic includes not everyone is going to instantly convert and quote Bible verses all day.


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## harpwriter

ThompsonWrites said:


> welcome - love catholics. I was raised catholic (south side of Chicago) and many of my friends are catholic but I never ask them how many kids they have, maybe that is a girl thing?


LOL, I don't know. It probably is more something women ask. I teach music lessons and new parents often enough, just making conversation, ask if I have kids and how many.


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## Neo22

ThompsonWrites said:


> I like your book covers, simple and easy to read. Nice.


Hi ThompsonWrites, I put so much effort making those covers, that your appreciation made my day. Thank You very much!

Good luck with your book.


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## Victorine

ThompsonWrites said:


> I am not the cursing type but when I write, my mind gets stuck and wants to fill the blank with a curse word. I know this is a major writing flaw. What do you all think if I were to use the word "expletive" as a filler? This question is for my current book in progress, non fiction, personal development, pop culture. I have also thought of using the word "cuss" and allow the reader fill in the blank. If any of you have seen the film Fantastic Mr. Fox, they use the "cuss" strategy during the film. I am also a huge fan of the director Wes Anderson.
> 
> example sentence
> _Now that we have established why some of these numbers seem inflated, let's take a step back at what the expletive we just saw. _


I'd just leave out the curse word. It reads funny to me to put "expletive" or "cuss" in substitution. And I don't think the curse word is needed. I do what Craig does, and just say "He cursed" or "I've never heard her use such language." That's mostly for character building. I don't see a need for it in non-fiction.

Vicki


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## harpwriter

Frank Peretti did a great job handling the cursing and showing the grittier, ugly aspects of life without being graphic.


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## Craig

Neo22 said:


> I believe there are people who would like to read true Christian testimony. I don't mean theory, but practical living. Yes, it might not be popular, but that's not the point. Many would not talk about it, but need help and are searching for answers. Christians have to be prepared their book might be only read by a few.


There's always a place for instructive and apologetic writing, and I agree that popularity is not the point. I do think that good writing in fiction requires something of a sideways approach to the author's themes, whether its Christian or something else.


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## daveconifer

Victorine said:


> I'd just leave out the curse word. It reads funny to me to put "expletive" or "cuss" in substitution. And I don't think the curse word is needed. I do what Craig does, and just say "He cursed" or "I've never heard her use such language." That's mostly for character building. I don't see a need for it in non-fiction.
> 
> Vicki


Vicki, you did a good job with this in Not What she Seems. Richard was a rather nasty guy and it was clear that he was using some salty language without _you_ actually using it...


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## ThompsonWrites

Victorine said:


> I'd just leave out the curse word. It reads funny to me to put "expletive" or "cuss" in substitution. And I don't think the curse word is needed. I do what Craig does, and just say "He cursed" or "I've never heard her use such language." That's mostly for character building. I don't see a need for it in non-fiction.
> 
> Vicki


thanks vicki. your words carry big weight and appreciate the insight.


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## CraigInOregon

Come now, ThompsonWrites... I probably weigh twice as much as poor Vicki...  LOL


----------



## Victorine

daveconifer said:


> Vicki, you did a good job with this in Not What she Seems. Richard was a rather nasty guy and it was clear that he was using some salty language without _you_ actually using it...


Thanks, Dave! 



CraigInTwinCities said:


> Come now, ThompsonWrites... I probably weigh twice as much as poor Vicki...  LOL


Ha ha ha ha ha!

Vicki


----------



## Craig

I've been blogging about my experience in self-publishing and e-publishing, particularly about the challenges of marketing. Check it out!
http://stcelibartpress.blogspot.com/


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## Maurice X. Alvarez

I wrote a non-denominational religious short story about two soldiers traveling in a convoy that gets ambushed. It's actually available for free online reading on my website, Thought to Word.

I was raised Christian, Roman Catholic specifically, but I don't think I've ever let that influence my writing. I would say it's the "village" I grew up in that has had the most impact on my writing. I think like the people and situations that surrounded me during my formative years, and as far as I can tell, my characters and situations reflect that. Of course, that's my perspective. Someone else might look at my work and think otherwise.


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## ThompsonWrites

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Come now, ThompsonWrites... I probably weigh twice as much as poor Vicki...  LOL


Any luck on that Jacob research? You carry a big stick too - but you knew that.


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## Dana Taylor

Hello everyone--

I've been active on the Kindleboards for a while now, largely communicating with romance writers via my published romantic comedies. As writers, our work often reflects the interests in our lives and I also am a spiritual explorer. I have Christian roots, but enjoy reading books from many different traditions. I am also a Reiki therapist and co-founder of the spiritual community, www.SupernalFriends.com. Last year many spiritually-minded authors were brought together by a contest dubbed "Next Top Spiritual Author."

Personally, I've perceived a need for writers of spiritual material to find each other in the way that other genres have come together--writers of romance, westerns and mysteries. I'm inviting some of my new spiritual writing friends to hop over here to Kindleboards and tell us about their work. I hope that any other authors writing in relating to mind-body-spirit will feel free to join in here. Of course reader in-put is always welcome.

Dana Taylor


----------



## muselady11

Hi, Dana! Just checking in to the new thing, here. I'll be back!


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## Samantha Fury

I'm kind of new at the kindle boards here.. Can I post my Christian fiction here.. it's spiritual in parts.  Charlie is not perfect and does stupid things, but she has a good heart.. 

Thanks


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## Sahvanna

Hi Dana and all Spirit Authors,
Dana, thank you for creating this forum. I am really looking forward to posting and partaking in lively conversations here. Since I self published my book I have learned so much about marketing and what it takes to be a successful author. It is so much more then writing, in fact once your writing is done, the journey really begins! I also have found the self publishing is very rewarding. At first I felt Lightworker did not have a home, but now I look at it differently. In looking at the best seller lists, I see many self published kindle books listed there. If an author learns to promote, (something you would need to do with a traditional publisher anyway) I believe you can achieve a great deal of success. I think those of us self publishing are on the ground floor of the wave of the future. Blessings to all!


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## Dana Taylor

Good Afternoon--

There are a lot of books with spiritual themes, but they don't seem to have much of a genre umbrella. As authors, we haven't "found" each other. This is a small attempt to do that. Samantha, I welcome reading snippets of your books and see how you have incorporated your Christian message.

Sahvannah--I'm about half-way through your book right now. I'd say there are a lot of people out there who are Lightworkers-unawares. You point out characteristics and the difficulties sensative people face trying to lead a "normal" life. I can identify!

I also enjoy the challenge of reading books dealing with quantum physics--where science is now meeting metaphysics. Hope some authors from that realm will pop in here!

You can get a glimpse of where I'm coming from in Ain't Love Grand? The heroine is a healer who runs a health-food store. This morning I gave a healing treatment to a friend who is "down in the back." That's pretty much my world nowadays.

Hope we find some kindred spirits here.

Dana


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## Annalinde Matichei

My work has a spiritual basis. Even in _Silver Vixen_, which at first looks like straight science fiction, space (or the Aethyr as the characters call it) is a metaphor for differing states of reality. Not a literary metaphor exactly, because I ultimately believe that space - like all physical realities - is fundamentally symbolic. As the book progresses, it becomes clearer that the characters' relation to the divine order of being is at the root of everything they do.

My next work, currently titled _Goldenhead_, will be more obviously spiritual, exploring, from the very beginning, states of consciousness, dreaming and waking, the whole question of what is "reality". You can see an extract here if you are interested.

I absolutely agree that independent publishing is the wave of the future. Many great spiritual writers, like William Blake, published themselves in the past (he even did his own printing). More recently, in the 20th century, self-publishing became all but impossible. Now it is becoming possible again.


----------



## AnneKAlbert

Hi, my debut novel, DEFENDING GLORY, fits in this discussion. It's a story about a woman who believes unconditionally in the Lord, and a man who is convinced there is no master plan, no purpose to life, and most certainly no merciful God in Heaven.  Of course, but the end of the book he's changed his mind!


----------



## Mark Adair

Hi Dana. My suspense/thriller, The Father's Child, has spiritual underpinnings. It's not explicity christian although one of the major characters is. In addition, the protagonist has a few spiritual encounters. Because it's not CBA type fiction, the language is r-rated in spots. Thanks for starting this. I look forward to being a part of it.

Mark


----------



## Sahvanna

Dana Taylor said:


> Hello everyone--
> 
> I've been active on the Kindleboards for a while now, largely communicating with romance writers via my published romantic comedies. As writers, our work often reflects the interests in our lives and I also am a spiritual explorer. I have Christian roots, but enjoy reading books from many different traditions. I am also a Reiki therapist and co-founder of the spiritual community, www.SupernalFriends.com. Last year many spiritually-minded authors were brought together by a contest dubbed "Next Top Spiritual Author."
> 
> Personally, I've perceived a need for writers of spiritual material to find each other in the way that other genres have come together--writers of romance, westerns and mysteries. I'm inviting some of my new spiritual writing friends to hop over here to Kindleboards and tell us about their work. I hope that any other authors writing in relating to mind-body-spirit will feel free to join in here. Of course reader in-put is always welcome.
> 
> My spirit-lit work-in-progress is a combination memoir/guide to practical prayer. I'm hoping to finally publish it later this spring. The current title is
> "Ever-Flowing Streams: Adventures in Prayer".
> 
> 
> Excerpts of the book can currently be found at Scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/37067026/Ever-Flowing-Streams-Adventures-in-Prayer
> 
> I'd also like to recommend Faye Rosie's Book "The Power of Your Spirit" for a holistic view of health.
> 
> 
> And check out Sahvanna Arienta's new book, "Lightworker: The Unique Souls Who Have Come To Heal the Planet"
> 
> I hope we see many fascinating new books here!
> Dana Taylor


Thank you Dana, that is exactly who I was trying to reach, those who are unaware. I have been seeing clients for twenty years and more and more people are coming to me with anxiety, depression and addiction issues that I feel are directly related to their sensitivity issues. So Lightworker does address the "average" person who is here for not so average reasons, and help them cope with extra sensory perceptions and the acuteness of their own nature.


----------



## Craig

As part of my marketing scheme, I have an animated video excerpt of "The Job." Check it out and help it become viral!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFX9R8PpAPg


----------



## ThompsonWrites

Craig said:


> As part of my marketing scheme, I have an animated video excerpt of "The Job." Check it out and help it become viral!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFX9R8PpAPg


I like the idea of the video. How have you been tracking? Have you seen any upside? Have you attempted iTunes podcast for marketing?


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## LorenaMcC

I write Christian fiction (mysteries and romances). My print publisher has four of my books available on Kindle (including a free download of INVISIBLE). I have one original mystery available - HERE COMES THE RIDE ($2.99). This is a lighthearted mystery, about a woman and her limousine. And I just made one of my earlier, out of print books available: SEARCHING FOR STARDUST ($2.99), about a divorced woman who reluctantly joins forces with her ex-husband to learn the truth about their son's death - and about the mysterious girl named Stardust who emerges from his journal.

I've never posted anything on a Kindle site before, and I hope what I've put isn't something that isn't allowed. I see other authors show covers of their books - but I don't know if this is the place to do that.

Lorena McCourtney http://www.lorenamccourtney.com


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## Craig

ThompsonWrites said:


> I like the idea of the video. How have you been tracking? Have you seen any upside? Have you attempted iTunes podcast for marketing?


I was not counting on a whole lot from the video, but with fewer than 200 views in about six months, it hasn't gotten even the amount of traffic I was hoping for. But, it has been embedded by another website, worldnews (wn.com). And no, I haven't tried iTunes for podcast -- I need to look into it. I did try to figure out the Apple store for iBooks, and got nowhere with that. I need to look into that again and see if I can figure it out.


----------



## Mark Adair

LorenaMcC said:


> I write Christian fiction (mysteries and romances). My print publisher has four of my books available on Kindle (including a free download of INVISIBLE). I have one original mystery available - HERE COMES THE RIDE ($2.99). This is a lighthearted mystery, about a woman and her limousine. And I just made one of my earlier, out of print books available: SEARCHING FOR STARDUST ($2.99), about a divorced woman who reluctantly joins forces with her ex-husband to learn the truth about their son's death - and about the mysterious girl named Stardust who emerges from his journal.
> 
> I've never posted anything on a Kindle site before, and I hope what I've put isn't something that isn't allowed. I see other authors show covers of their books - but I don't know if this is the place to do that.
> 
> Lorena McCourtney http://www.lorenamccourtney.com


Hi Lorena. Welcome to Kindleboards!


----------



## Neo22

Craig said:


> As part of my marketing scheme, I have an animated video excerpt of "The Job." Check it out and help it become viral!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFX9R8PpAPg


I liked the video. Subject of pain and suffering is interesting to me. Will have to check your book!


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi--

I'm so happy to see some participants here. I think in these days of extreme turmoil many of us are seeking inspiration, grounding and hope from books. And they are hard to find!

Welcome all!

@ Lorena--you have to jump in somewhere! This is a good start. You can use the LINK-MAKER at the bottom of the page to insert your book covers.

@Anne--I just like the friendly look on your face. On the romance link you already got raves on your "Frank, Incense and Muriel" title. Clever, intriguing.

@Mark--I gave up trying fitting in the Christian-lit box-- no sex, no rough language. Makes me feel muzzled. Yet, there are spiritual journeys that aren't "G" rated.

I wrote what I call a "Mystic-lit" short story and recorded it for fun. It's only about 10 minutes and you may think the acting is really terrible. But, hey it's free. You get what you pay for. The story is entitled "Detour".  You can hear it at PodBean
http://supernalfriends.podbean.com/2010/03/22/detour-a-supernal-story/

So, do you like "Spirit-lit" or "Mystic-lit" or something else?

Dana Taylor


----------



## Craig

Neo22 said:


> I liked the video. Subject of pain and suffering is interesting to me. Will have to check your book!


Thanks. I was going for more charm and not so much cheesy.


----------



## Laura Lond

CraigInTwinCities said:


> (I've literally seen guidelines from some faith-based publishers where writers were given long lists of not just themes and actions that were forbidden, but words that were blacklisted, as well.)


I have seen those, too. I don't follow any such ridiculous guidelines, and so I often hesitate to label my works as Christian. But, on the other hand, if I don't, and people see the spiritual themes, they'll get mad for "not being warned," so to speak.


----------



## CraigInOregon

ThompsonWrites said:


> You wouldn't happen to know any information eluding to the wealth of Jacob in the Bible? In particular, I am interested in the estimated value of his gift to Esau (believe it is genesis 32 or 33). If not, no worries.


I took some time to look this up.

Here's what I can tell you.

If you'll notice in the text, prior to meeting up with his brother Esau, Jacob divides everything he has into two camps, in the hope that if Esau strikes at him, half of everything he has will survive.

Later, after his prayer to the L-RD for favor in his brother's eyes, Jacob pulls together his gift for Esau from "what was at hand."

So, his gift to Esau is a portion collected from half of his estate.

What Genesis gives us is a catalog of what Jacob sent Esau. It is a total of about 580 animals Each animal type probably had a different value. I have no source that even speculates at a "dollar value." We're talking about a time in history about 3500 years ago (very roughly) so any attempt to translate what that number of livestock meant back then into today's economic terms would be speculative at best.

But there are two ways to interpret the value of the gift, at the very least.

Jacob served Laban for seven years to receive Rachel as his bride, and received Leah instead. He then received Rachel in the understanding that he'd serve Laban another seven years.

In total, Jacob served Laban for 20 years, but the first 14 years he acquired no wealth because he was purchasing the right to marry Leah and Rachel.

So, Jacob's wealth comes from what he accumulated in the final six years of his service to Laban. (I won't go into the whole spotted/speckled lambs vs. pure lambs thing...)

But financially speaking, Jacob's belongings that are with him could be said to be "six year's wages" euphemistically.

So he split that in half... he gave Esau a gift from three years of accumulated belongings.

So how much of that portion did Jacob give Esau?

There are at least three theories.

One theory is that he gave Esau a tenth of what was on hand... (also referred to as a tithe). But I'm not sure there's much support for giving his brother a tenth... (ultimately five percent, because this was from only half of his wealth).

Why not? Because Esau's initial refusal of the gift is too strong; if Jacob still had 90 percent of what he had "on hand," I doubt Esau would have said, "Nah, I have plenty of my own wealth, you keep what you have." Even at 580 animals, the percentage would have seemed too paltry to refuse, even out of politeness.

Theory number two: Jacob knew Esau was holding a grudge about Jacob receiving the "blessing of the first-born" that Esau felt he had a birthright to for coming out of the womb first. This is where Esau had a convenient memory, because he'd actually SOLD Jacob his birthright for a bowl of mourner's stew. The birthright wasn't Esau's to claim, at that point; he'd sold it.

However, now both much older, I think Jacob wanted to balance the scales. In his message before they meet, Jacob assures Esau that he received no monetary inheritance from Issac their father. All that he has, he came by "from the LORD's blessing." Still, he offers his brother a gift from what was on hand.

How much did that gift constitute?

I'm going to say it was two-thirds of what was on hand. Why? Because that's what a first-born is entitled to; they are given "a double portion" of all that their father has.

So, if you have two sons, the father's property is divided into three equal portions; the first-born receives two of those portions and the younger son receives one. That's where I get two-thirds.

Now, ultimately, he's offering two-third of half his estate to Esau... but it is two-third of what he had on-hand after making sure his brother couldn't wipe out everything Jacob had in one action.

So if Jacob offers Esau 580 animals, that must mean he originally had around 870 animals on hand and would have sent his brother 580, leaving Jacob with only 290 animals remaining.

That's probably not a lot when you consider Jacob's entourage includes, at this time, two wives, two concubines, 12 children and various servants and "employees" to provide for.

The offering of 580 animals would have meant even less to Esau, who arrived with 400 soldiers backing him up. And it would explain why Esau might try to turn down Jacob's offer... those 580 animals would mean more to Jacob with a party of ~50 people, than they would to Esau's hundreds. Clearly, Esau wasn't being flippant when he said he had accumulated far more wealth than Jacob.

Also, we can draw a reasonable conclusion that Jacob's entire "estate" at this time consisted of about 1,740 animals. Not small; probably not huge, but enough to take care of his family and servants.

So why offer two-thirds? To put the "right of the first-born" issue to rest between them. He's offering that double-portion of worldly goods to his brother, even though Jacob never received two thirds of Issac's estate.

Symbolically, it's a powerful apology.

But the interesting thing is that both men had what they valued. Esau was enamored of material goods; and the LORD blessed Esau materially, far beyond his brother Jacob who received Issac's blessing.

But what Jacob sought was not material possessions... that's why he'd be so willing to give two-thirds of it away. He didn't care about wealth; he cared about the spiritual blessing from the LORD. Jacob was a "man of the tents," a man of study who learned about the LORD at the feet of his grandfather Abraham. And as the wrestling match with the angel proves... Jacob received what he truly valued... the blessing of the LORD.

Jacob knew his possessions were temporary and anything he gave away, God could replace. He'd seen that in how the LORD blessed him with material things (livestock) even when Laban kept changing terms of the agreement they had made.

So both men received what they valued, and by a two-thirds offering to his brother, he symbolically placed the issue between them into the past. That's why he insisted that his brother accept it, paltry as it was compared to Esau's riches.

The third theory is that Jacob offered Esau everything he had on hand... (ultimately, half his wealth since he'd split it up evenly earlier). The only rationale offered for this theory is rather weak... that Jacob didn't want livestock slowing him down if Esau grew hostile and attacked and fleeing became necessary. So he offered to Esau what he figured he'd lose anyway.

The trouble with the "everything on hand/half" theory is that there's just not a lot of support for it, no valid rationale for at all. Even with half his wealth located somewhere else, one would not travel around with NOTHING on hand even back then.

So I strongly favor the second theory... the "birthright offering" of two-thirds of what he had on hand.

So Jacob offered Esau two-thirds of all he had on hand, or a third of everything if you count the other half. I could really get a lot of meaning out of how that shows that the LORD was still confirming that the birthright remained with Jacob because ultimately he was only giving his brother one portion of all he had, not two... but I think you get the idea.

So, one third of six-years wages ... or two years wages ... would get you as close as you'll likely ever get to finding out the value of Jacob's gift to Esau.

No "hard dollar value" translation or interpretation of that for you, though.

Hope this helps and fits the need.


----------



## CraigInOregon

LOL... and at 1,300 words... if anyone wonders why I didn't get any progress on EMBER done tonight, well... I spent my 1,300 words on this post, hee hee!


----------



## J.M Pierce

My novella, Duality, is loosely based on the book of Job.


----------



## coffeetx

J.M. Pierce said:


> My novella, Duality, is loosely based on the book of Job.


Interesting! Hopped over to amazon to give it a look. Cover's great and really draws you in. Blurb definitely got me intrigued and the price is right! Just downloaded it. Thanks


----------



## Craig

J.M. Pierce said:


> My novella, Duality, is loosely based on the book of Job.


"The Job" is also based on Job, but I've tried to keep that quiet so readers can figure it out themselves. It's interesting in the reviews I've gotten to see who really gets it and who doesn't.


----------



## ThompsonWrites

CraigInTwinCities said:


> LOL... and at 1,300 words... if anyone wonders why I didn't get any progress on EMBER done tonight, well... I spent my 1,300 words on this post, hee hee!


You're a master. I understand where you are coming from and without going too deep into this Biblical account, what do you think Abraham passed on to Isaac? Isaac being the only validated son of Abraham he must have received a massive amount of wealth. Isaac, also blessed and prospered by God would leave a tremendous amount of riches for Jacob and Esau. Thoughts?

I know we can't get into an exact figure - but from my readings of scripture, I see no indication any old testament patriarchs were middle income generators. Abraham - blessed, Isaac - blessed, Jacob - blessed.


----------



## ThompsonWrites

Craig said:


> "The Job" is also based on Job, but I've tried to keep that quiet so readers can figure it out themselves. It's interesting in the reviews I've gotten to see who really gets it and who doesn't.


Since you started this thread, I'm going to feature your book on my blog sidebar. My suggestion is for all of us to take a look at how we can cycle through each others books to help promote. Check out my sidebar at www.iHateChurch.com

*if my site is down, it's because I updated Wordpress 3.1 and it crashed today.


----------



## J.M Pierce

coffeetx said:


> Interesting! Hopped over to amazon to give it a look. Cover's great and really draws you in. Blurb definitely got me intrigued and the price is right! Just downloaded it. Thanks


No, thank you! I hope you enjoy it.

Take care.

J.M.


----------



## Craig

ThompsonWrites said:


> Since you started this thread, I'm going to feature your book on my blog sidebar. My suggestion is for all of us to take a look at how we can cycle through each others books to help promote. Check out my sidebar at www.iHateChurch.com
> 
> *if my site is down, it's because I updated Wordpress 3.1 and it crashed today.


Thanks, Thompson, that definitely seems to be the way to work the Internet. Here's a new review of "The Job" from Maeva of Murphy's Library: http://www.murphyslibrary.com/?p=3018. I think English is her second language. If you read Portuguese, you can go to http://br.murphyslibrary.com/?p=3018.

Also, I did manage to get my video on iTunes as a podcast. I don't know how long it will last there, but anyway it's a moral victory.


----------



## JRTomlin

Craig said:


> Hello everybody. This thread is for discussing writing that touches on spiritual or religious themes, whether it is something you've written or read. So talk about your book here, or about your favorite authors of faith, from Chaucer to Dostoevsky to O'Connor. Doctrinal issues no doubt will come up, but this is not a forum for conversion or condemnation, so please, no sniping.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0041D8XGK


I do not--I really do _not_--want to be preached to in fiction, whether it is beliefs I share or don't share. That isn't to say that my characters don't have beliefs, but I have never written a character who shared my own spiritual beliefs. I may well never do so.

Sorry if it is sniping, but it is my reaction to your post. I don't criticise people who feel differently, but Chaucer didn't preach.


----------



## Craig

JRTomlin said:


> Chaucer didn't preach.


Exactly. But he did have a lot to say about the church and Christianity of his time. It can be done well.


----------



## CraigInOregon

ThompsonWrites said:


> You're a master. I understand where you are coming from and without going too deep into this Biblical account, what do you think Abraham passed on to Isaac? Isaac being the only validated son of Abraham he must have received a massive amount of wealth. Isaac, also blessed and prospered by God would leave a tremendous amount of riches for Jacob and Esau. Thoughts?
> 
> I know we can't get into an exact figure - but from my readings of scripture, I see no indication any old testament patriarchs were middle income generators. Abraham - blessed, Isaac - blessed, Jacob - blessed.


As you say, Issac is the only (legitimate) child of Abraham and Sarah. Ishmael was Issac's half-brother and rejected. Abraham (if you read closely) has other wives after Sarah dies, and has other children, all of whom become "nations" of sorts. And those children come before Abraham's death, but after he has passed control of his estate on to Issac.

But only Issac is the child of the LORD's promise to Abraham and Sarah.

As such, it's clear that everything that Abraham had, was passed on to Issac. We get an indication of this because after Abraham secures a bride for Issac through his servant, where do Issac and Rebbecca consummate their marriage? In the tent of Abraham and Sarah. I think this indicates that headship of Abraham's estate has passed from Abraham to Issac.

So, yes, Issac probably received everything materially that Abraham accumulated. More importantly, he inherited the blessing of the LORD, the spiritual promise.

Your questions are a challenge to answer in a way that will fully satisfy you, for this reason: your interest here is in material values, while the Torah is a document primarily concerned with spiritual values. That makes it challenging to come up with adequate answers, because Moses' emphasis wasn't primarily concerned with "the wealth of this world," so to speak.

Example: While Abraham, Issac and Jacob were all clearly "blessed" (you're right about that), I think the Torah is not necessarily speaking of worldly wealth when it speaks of blessing... my reading of it indicates that while that might be a part of it, what is meant by "blessing" is that God showed them his favor for their trust and obedience to him. That may not be measured in material wealth, necessarily.

I'm not saying I mind the questions... I'm complimented that you asked. I'm just trying to explain why my responses may not be quite as specific as you were maybe hoping for.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.


----------



## Craig

Laura Lond said:


> But, on the other hand, if I don't, and people see the spiritual themes, they'll get mad for "not being warned," so to speak.


I've heard this complaint against the Narnia books. Although those books were definitely written with a purpose, I think even if you don't approach your work with an agenda, your basic beliefs and principles are going to show up somehow. It's just unavoidable, so it's not reasonable for a reader to feel like he's been duped.


----------



## ThompsonWrites

CraigInTwinCities said:


> So, yes, Issac probably received everything materially that Abraham accumulated. More importantly, he inherited the blessing of the LORD, the spiritual promise.
> 
> Your questions are a challenge to answer in a way that will fully satisfy you, for this reason: your interest here is in material values, while the Torah is a document primarily concerned with spiritual values. That makes it challenging to come up with adequate answers, because Moses' emphasis wasn't primarily concerned with "the wealth of this world," so to speak.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more helpful.


Craig - Your answers were great. I don't want you to think I am a one sided Bible reader. My research in this manner is linked closer to material possessions in that I'm trying to prove Joseph was a "rich kid." I appreciate your in depth analysis of the torah and old testament. To be honest, I don't find too many very interested in these portions of text.

Lastly - Since you have been such a help, is there one of your books I can feature on my blog? I rotate 4 books or Amazon products every so often and want to help. Check it out and let me know. The blog may be offensive. I apologize in advance if you take it offensively. My hope is to help authors and readers to come together.

www.iHateChurch.com


----------



## ThompsonWrites

Craig said:


> Thanks, Thompson, that definitely seems to be the way to work the Internet. Here's a new review of "The Job" from Maeva of Murphy's Library: http://www.murphyslibrary.com/?p=3018.
> 
> Also, I did manage to get my video on iTunes as a podcast. I don't know how long it will last there, but anyway it's a moral victory.


Awesome - I fixed my site and your book is listed. The last book I had up was from a kid who popped in on the boards for 2 seconds and is gone. I'd rather use the space for authors who value the board relationally. Hope you get some sales. I also noticed your at the $3.99 price point - how is that going?


----------



## Craig

ThompsonWrites said:


> Awesome - I fixed my site and your book is listed. The last book I had up was from a kid who popped in on the boards for 2 seconds and is gone. I'd rather use the space for authors who value the board relationally. Hope you get some sales. I also noticed your at the $3.99 price point - how is that going?


Thanks for the nod on your website. My price point is probably not helping me, but I'm ascribing to the theory that asking readers for a slight investment tells them there's some value to be had. It's about half of the paperback price.

Here's a couple of links in case you're interested: "The Job" facebook fan page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Job-Based-on-a-True-Story/104805546240239?created
And my website for the arts: http://www.stcelibart.com

I'm late to this discussion, but I think you can definitely consider Joseph to be rich. His "coat of many colors", whatever it really was, was considered an extravagant gift, and even if most of Jacob's material holdings went to Reuben (as the oldest son), Joseph would have been incredibly wealthy through his connection with Pharaoh.


----------



## CraigInOregon

ThompsonWrites said:


> Craig - Your answers were great. I don't want you to think I am a one sided Bible reader. My research in this manner is linked closer to material possessions in that I'm trying to prove Joseph was a "rich kid." I appreciate your in depth analysis of the torah and old testament. To be honest, I don't find too many very interested in these portions of text.
> 
> Lastly - Since you have been such a help, is there one of your books I can feature on my blog? I rotate 4 books or Amazon products every so often and want to help. Check it out and let me know. The blog may be offensive. I apologize in advance if you take it offensively. My hope is to help authors and readers to come together.
> 
> www.iHateChurch.com


Ahh, Joseph. Well, Jacob's family was probably well-to-do for their time, but they were not as rich as ruling families of their time, not even close. (Esau's family, obviously, was in a much better position.)

Of course, he then gets sold into slavery in Egypt and after being jailed on false charges, is eventually made second only to Pharaoh himself. By that time, he was extremely well-to-do. (It's a controversial theory, but I am kind of partial to the idea that the figure the Torah identifies as Joseph was, in Egyptian history, actually Imhotep. Imhotep built the first-ever pyramid in Egypt, and was the only non-Egyptian in recorded Egyptian history to be second in authority to a Pharoah. He's generally not regarded to be Joseph or even a Hebrew, but little is actually known of his background... and there are many parallels, including an identical age of death, dealing with a time of seven years of plenty and seven years of famine and a huge list... It's not guaranteed that Joseph was known as Imhotep to the Egyptians... but it's an intriguing idea. Some of the parallels are especially interesting because Imhotep's body was never placed in its Egyptian tomb, and of course, Joseph's body was taken out of Egypt by Moses during the Exodus...

Anyway, the point is, Joseph (whether he was Imhotep or not) ended up very well to do.

The famine, however, would have wiped out the family of Jacob... indeed, it put them in a position of being destitute because Egypt did not exactly give away their storehouses of grain for free during the famine... but because of Joseph ending up where he ended up... the family of Jacob was preserved but ended up slaves in Egypt.

As for the offer to feature one of my books on your blog... can I take a raincheck? Girls to the Rescue isn't mine, per se... I contributed one story to it. And EMBER isn't finished... I'd be happy to have you feature EMBER on your site, as offered, once it's actually released.

EMBER isn't a spiritual novel; it's just a mainstream paranormal thriller (and probably YA), so the nature of your blog would not be a concern. 

Take care.


----------



## Craig

Well, I haven't had the world beat my door down for Christian writing, so I've been trying my hand at Southern gothic, which is the other thing I know. I've got a short story out to a southern literary journal, and I'm hoping it might be a door opening to traditional publishing. Then I have an idea I'm working on that combines the two. Anyone else have an ongoing project they'd like to talk about? Or a strategy they're following?


----------



## adamelijah

JRTomlin said:


> I do not--I really do _not_--want to be preached to in fiction, whether it is beliefs I share or don't share. That isn't to say that my characters don't have beliefs, but I have never written a character who shared my own spiritual beliefs. I may well never do so.
> 
> Sorry if it is sniping, but it is my reaction to your post. I don't criticise people who feel differently, but Chaucer didn't preach.


First of all, Chaucer didn't preach? Have you read the Parson's Tale?

Secondly, it seems to me that much of great fiction preaches in subtle, or not so subtle ways. Consider, _Casablanca_ or _It's a Wonderful Life_ certainly preached though not in a clusmy way.

I don't think that every novel needs to be a long-winded sermon, but I tend to think that much of the, "Don't preach at Me" attitude in our society comes from an idea of avoiding any sort of challenges to one's own moral or ethical behavior. I think the best fiction, not only entertains us, but at some level points us in a right direction for our lives.


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Craig said:


> Hello everybody. This thread is for discussing writing that touches on spiritual or religious themes, whether it is something you've written or read. So talk about your book here, or about your favorite authors of faith, from Chaucer to Dostoevsky to O'Connor. Doctrinal issues no doubt will come up, but this is not a forum for conversion or condemnation, so please, no sniping.


I have 4 books in spiritual series: "Science, Religion &Spirituality"; "In Search of God";"Great Spiritual Series"; Soul and Reincarnation... If interested two of these are listed in my signature. For others you can click on "For your Kindle/Nook/Smashwords. Wish you all the best.


----------



## Craig

adamelijah said:


> First of all, Chaucer didn't preach? Have you read the Parson's Tale?
> 
> Secondly, it seems to me that much of great fiction preaches in subtle, or not so subtle ways. Consider, _Casablanca_ or _It's a Wonderful Life_ certainly preached though not in a clusmy way.
> 
> I don't think that every novel needs to be a long-winded sermon, but I tend to think that much of the, "Don't preach at Me" attitude in our society comes from an idea of avoiding any sort of challenges to one's own moral or ethical behavior. I think the best fiction, not only entertains us, but at some level points us in a right direction for our lives.


Good points. I think there is a difference between preaching and teaching in writing. I call "The Job" a humorous parable, so while there's definitely a point, it's brought out in a round-about way. There are definitely Christian fiction books out there, very popular ones, that hit you like a ton of bricks.


----------



## CraigInOregon

Craig said:


> Good points. I think there is a difference between preaching and teaching in writing. I call "The Job" a humorous parable, so while there's definitely a point, it's brought out in a round-about way. There are definitely Christian fiction books out there, very popular ones, that hit you like a ton of bricks.


It's one of those, "hard to define, but you know it when you read it" sort of things, perhaps.

I quite enjoyed the early books in the LEFT BEHIND series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.

However, with each new book, the ratio of plot-to-sermonizing grew more out-of-balance. The early books were kind of fun because a lot happened in them. (It was originally conceived as a six-book series, and by the time the third book came out, Zondervan(?) told them to make it twice the originally-conceived length... 12 books.) Then they added a 13th. And now they're doing all sorts of spin-offs, prequels, etc, that are all increasingly disappointing and weak. I stuck it out through book 12. I have, but never worked up enough interest to read, the 13th book. I've avoided all spin-offs and prequels.

The difference is, those first three books focused on character and building suspense. Pretty much every book that followed focused more and more on explaining "end-times theology."

In other words, a didactic snooze-fest with less and less plot driving things forward with each new installment.


----------



## M.C. Walker

If you're looking for edge-of-your-seat suspense in an inspirational thriller unlike any you've read before...



Tragic real-life stories of mistaken identity have filled the news in recent years, a premise that fuels this chilling tale of an everyday woman forced to fight back against near insurmountable odds.

Unspeakable tragedy and cold-blooded murder conspire against Clare Carson in an ultimate test of faith when her son is kidnapped after a heart transplant and his abductors want her dead. A dying cop's last words lead her to Jake Wyatt, who helps her discover the horrific truth behind her son's abduction and offers to help her get Tyler back. With nowhere else to turn, Clare entrusts her life to Jake not knowing he has a deadly agenda of his own that could destroy them both.

M.C. Walker


----------



## Craig

CraigInTwinCities said:


> It's one of those, "hard to define, but you know it when you read it" sort of things, perhaps.
> 
> I quite enjoyed the early books in the LEFT BEHIND series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.
> 
> However, with each new book, the ratio of plot-to-sermonizing grew more out-of-balance. The early books were kind of fun because a lot happened in them. (It was originally conceived as a six-book series, and by the time the third book came out, Zondervan(?) told them to make it twice the originally-conceived length... 12 books.) Then they added a 13th. And now they're doing all sorts of spin-offs, prequels, etc, that are all increasingly disappointing and weak. I stuck it out through book 12. I have, but never worked up enough interest to read, the 13th book. I've avoided all spin-offs and prequels.
> 
> The difference is, those first three books focused on character and building suspense. Pretty much every book that followed focused more and more on explaining "end-times theology."
> 
> In other words, a didactic snooze-fest with less and less plot driving things forward with each new installment.


I read the first few books of that series, but I got really cynical about it once it seemed like every character could either build a computer from scratch, or fly a jet fighter or something ridiculous.


----------



## CraigInOregon

Craig said:


> I read the first few books of that series, but I got really cynical about it once it seemed like every character could either build a computer from scratch, or fly a jet fighter or something ridiculous.


If they'd kept it to six books as originally planned, trimmed the cast and had more plot and less theological sermonizing, I might have enjoyed all of it the way I enjoyed the first three books...

Oh well. I've read many things that are much better.... spiritual or not.


----------



## Laura Lond

I have to agree about Left Behind, it started out good, but then I couldn't help feeling that they just started milking it. It had become especially clear when I saw the prequel and a teen spin-off. Come on. Teens could read the original series just fine.


----------



## Craig

Laura Lond said:


> I have to agree about Left Behind, it started out good, but then I couldn't help feeling that they just started milking it. It had become especially clear when I saw the prequel and a teen spin-off. Come on. Teens could read the original series just fine.


What's the best new Christian fiction you guys have read? Besides your own books?


----------



## AnnetteL

CraigInTwinCities, I love your posts about Biblical history--fascinating about Imhotep. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

On the preaching thing--I think there's a fine line between telling a story that happens to have a good message/lesson and writing a didactic sermon. 

ONCE (and only once) I tried to write a book with a "message"--it came out utterly didactic and will forever gather dust on my hard drive.

But lots of people tell me this book or that one taught them something, or they ask me if this or that was my "message." And looking back at various books, I can say that yes, there is a message, maybe one *I* learned along the way even. But it showed up organically.


----------



## Laura Lond

Craig said:


> What's the best new Christian fiction you guys have read? Besides your own books?


I can't say I've read all the newest stuff, but I like Karen Hancock, Dee Henderson, Terry Blackstock, Donita K. Paul - that's off the top of my head.


----------



## Craig

Laura Lond said:


> I can't say I've read all the newest stuff, but I like Karen Hancock, Dee Henderson, Terry Blackstock, Donita K. Paul - that's off the top of my head.


I'm not up on the latest and greatest either -- the newest Christian fiction with real merit I've read is "Brendan" by Frederick Buechner. I'll have to check out these authors you like.

I've got a deal going on my blog. Use this link to check it out:
http://stcelibartpress.blogspot.com/2011/03/book-giveaway.html


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi--

For SampleSunday this week I've posted a spiritual scene from 

The heroine is an energy healer who is occasionally accused of being a witch.

Read The Healing Scene at http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewblog.asp?blogid=54427

Anybody else have some samples posted somewhere?

Dana Taylor


----------



## Cristian YoungMiller

Hi everyone,
I think this is a great idea. About a week ago I published a spiritual book called: *The First Day After Life.* It is a book about a psychic who dies and then tours the afterlife looking for God so that God to explain to him why his life didn't turn out the way that he expected.

I have also started a thread called: What is your coolest *Psychic Experiences* You should check out some of the postings. They are very cool! http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=56137.new;topicseen#new


----------



## Mark Adair

Dana Taylor said:


> For SampleSunday this week I've posted a spiritual scene from
> 
> The heroine is an energy healer who is occasionally accused of being a witch.
> 
> Read The Healing Scene at http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewblog.asp?blogid=54427
> 
> Anybody else have some samples posted somewhere?
> 
> Dana Taylor


Hi Dana. The first chapter of my acclaimed suspense/thriller, The Father's Child, can be found at http://markadairblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/fathers-child-chapter-1-samplesunday.html.

John Truman, an anxiety-riddled genius, struggles with just about everything. The plans of the New Dawn, an Oxford-based secret society, revolve around him. Even his search for identity works against him. Nothing is what it seems and no one can be trusted. All he wants is to get through today; all they want is to rule the world.


----------



## Craig

Hi everyone. The book I'm promoting most here, "The Job: Based on a True Story (I Mean, This is Bound to have Happened Somewhere)" is a humorous attempt to address the age-old issue of suffering. For those in the know, the story will be familiar, but in a thoroughly modern setting.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,40980.0.html
I also have other books for Kindle, "Feallengod: The Conflict in the Heavenlies", which is an allegory of the biblical conflicts that Satan is overtly involved in, and "Wars of the Aoten," a pretty traditional quest-adventure with a drastic twist.


----------



## ThompsonWrites

Great post. I'm in the middle of my first book tentatively titled, "_Goliath On The Couch: Where Profit, Pop-Culture, Porn and You Matter_. There are spiritual stories involved and it's pretty cool to finally find a post in this genre.

What's best about spirituality is how linked it is with other people. Great to briefly say hello to all of you. Congrats on everyone's books. I hope you all reach the top of your genre's.

May our words inspire another


----------



## JulianneMacLean

Great thread!  I think my book might apply - it's called THE COLOR OF HEAVEN, and is about a woman's challenging journey through her own challenging life experiences, then she has a car accident and drives her car into a frozen lake.  She drowns there and has an out-of-body/near death experience that drives the rest of the story.

I've been getting the most amazing letters from readers who have contacted me with stories of similar experiences - not just the near-death experience, but the other challenges my character faces as well.  I am so touched by all the letters, and so grateful for the kind words, because much of the content of the book comes from my own life experience, so it's very close to my heart.

I'll take this opportunity to recommend another fantastic book called 90 Minutes in Heaven, which is a true story of a minister who died in a car accident and lived to tell about his experience.  If you enjoyed that book, you might enjoy The Color of Heaven as well.


----------



## ThompsonWrites

EVMitchell said:


> I've been getting the most amazing letters from readers who have contacted me with stories of similar experiences - not just the near-death experience, but the other challenges my character faces as well. I am so touched by all the letters, and so grateful for the kind words, because much of the content of the book comes from my own life experience, so it's very close to my heart.
> 
> I'll take this opportunity to recommend another fantastic book called 90 Minutes in Heaven, which is a true story of a minister who died in a car accident and lived to tell about his experience. If you enjoyed that book, you might enjoy The Color of Heaven as well.


What an awesome story, thanks for sharing.


----------



## monkeyluis

Thanks for this thread.


----------



## Angela

So glad I stumbled across this thread. I am not a writer, but I am looking forward to reading some of the works I have seen here!


----------



## Craig

Angela said:


> So glad I stumbled across this thread. I am not a writer, but I am looking forward to reading some of the works I have seen here!


Good to have you around, Angela. Hope you find good reading here.

In other news, the book giveaway is over, but if anyone would like to do a Goodreads and Amazon review of any of my books, I'd be happy to send you a copy.


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

My writing for the spirit is for real life and not fiction.

Why is Spirituality important?

Many of us wonder what spirituality is or what it does

Spirituality serves to supplement and buttress peoples moral sense, which is our conscience, or the spark within that tells us to do good. In the legend of mahabharta, Yudhister could see no evil in any man and Daryodhan could see no virtue in any one. Similar was the VISION OF GURU NANAK, the founder of sikh religion, WHO COULD SEE NO HINDU, NO MUSALMAN BUT HUMANITY. We all have something like this. Truthful and spiritually oriented books/articles help refine the sense of right and wrong. Just look at the fallen towers and religious wars to see the need for books like "A Treasure of Great Spiritual Stories: Spirituality In Everyday Living".

"The language of the head is words. 
The language of the heart is love. 
The language of the soul is silence."


----------



## Craig

I'm pretty slow on the up-take, but I finally got my author profile up at Goodreads. Check it out!
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4721550.Craig_Davis


----------



## ThompsonWrites

Craig said:


> I'm pretty slow on the up-take, but I finally got my author profile up at Goodreads. Check it out!
> http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4721550.Craig_Davis


I'll look for yah, http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/5113001-thompsonwrites congrats.


----------



## DeAngelo

My book touches on religion a LOT, but it's a religion specific to the book so I don't know if that counts.


----------



## Paul Clayton

I look for spirituality in the books I read.  This can take the form of morality, goodness, values.  The pendulum of the sixties almost wiped morality from the public sector.  I don't necessaryily read books that promote a particular religious viewpoint, although I do believe they're important.  And I try to impart a value system to the worlds I build, and people it with characters who try to live up to their values.  Anyway, I think the pendulum is beginning to swing back.


----------



## Craig

DeAngelo said:


> My book touches on religion a LOT, but it's a religion specific to the book so I don't know if that counts.


Did you invent a religion for your novel? In Wars of the Aoten (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047DWZUE) I write about five ancient clans, all with their own god myth. They each share a few similar attributes, and each is written in a distinctive style.


----------



## DeAngelo

Craig said:


> Did you invent a religion for your novel? In Wars of the Aoten (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047DWZUE) I write about five ancient clans, all with their own god myth. They each share a few similar attributes, and each is written in a distinctive style.


Yes and no. Yes in that each god I created myself as characters in my book. No in that the idea of a large amount of gods in a fantasy novel has been done before. Basically in my book there are 2 places, the land of the living and the Ether. The Ether is infinite and anyone powerful enough can take up residence in it and create their own realm within it. Some of book 1 revolves around it, most of book 2 does, and in book 3 the characters have to go into it to fight someone.


----------



## CraigInOregon

I think novels with spiritual themes are at their strongest when they don't offer easy answers, and when the struggles of life are not minimized by the application of faith to overcoming those problems.

One way to look at it is: faith portrayed as a life preserver clung to by a drowning person is OK; faith as a luxury liner offered to the same drowning person, not so much.


----------



## Craig

CraigInTwinCities said:


> I think novels with spiritual themes are at their strongest when they don't offer easy answers, and when the struggles of life are not minimized by the application of faith to overcoming those problems.
> 
> One way to look at it is: faith portrayed as a life preserver clung to by a drowning person is OK; faith as a luxury liner offered to the same drowning person, not so much.


I agree. From a Christian perspective, one of the real draws for me is the mystery left to a number of issues, suffering not the least of these.

I don't think I've mentioned my trailer on this thread. Here it is:


----------



## Mr. RAD

Shame on me for never reading this thread despite having seen it numerous times. 

My work in progress is a Christian piece (in my opinion).  However, it doesn't come off all preachy.  What truth the main character learns within the story isn't spiritual as even the most irreligious person can take advantage of it.  And what is that truth?  Well, you'll have to wait until the story is published to find out.

Certainly KB can have a Christian board.  Kind of surprising that it doesn't have one already.  Or am I wrong?


----------



## Craig

Mr. RAD said:


> Certainly KB can have a Christian board. Kind of surprising that it doesn't have one already. Or am I wrong?


Welcome, Mr. Rad. This is the Christian/spiritual thread. It has only a few adherents, so post as often as you want to keep it at the top of the boards.

In other news, I'm happy to send a Kindle version of any or all of my books to anyone willing to review it for Amazon, B&N, Smashwords and Goodreads, as well as your blog if that's what you do. Send me a PM with the book(s) you'd like and your email if you're interested.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,40980.0.html


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi--

I hadn't checked this thread for a while. There are some really interesting books here. EV--I've seen your book on the top seller list. I know I've read some of your romances.

I am one of the founders of a website named www.SupernalFriends.com "Supernal" means "from heaven"

It is subtitled "Ordinary people having extraordinary experiences." One of our favorite things to do is record little podcasts about some of our "Supernal Adventures" and things we are interested in. We just recorded our first Book Club Pod Cast, which was a lot of fun. We talked about four books on healing--

Dreamhealer I and Dreamhealer II by Adam McCloud. Adam has been doing amazing healing in Canada since he was a child. He is now a young man, graduated from college and leading seminars before he starts his career. Fascinating and gifted.

We also talked about The Power of Your Spirit  by Faye Rosie and Lightworker by Sahvanna Arienta, two books I've mentioned on the thread.

If you have 20 minutes, download and listen. I think you'll find us entertaining!

http://www.supernalfriends.com/radio.html

Dana Taylor


----------



## Craig

I've found it really hard to find reviewers for Christian books, particularly e-books and self-published. A lot of the review blogs I've found seem to review only on what the writer has bought lately. If anyone has some good links, please share. Here's Grace Krispy's, one of the more thoughtful reviewers I've found.
http://gracekrispy.blogspot.com/

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,40980.0.html


----------



## Dana Taylor

Craig--

Thanks for sharing the GraceKrispy site.  It was new to me. And congrats on getting even a brief review the Midwest Review. I remember being rejected as  too fluffy for them!

Yes, getting Christian, spiritual and especially non-fiction reviews is a challenge! I'm very close to pubbing my non-fiction spiritual memoir and am wondering how in the heck I'm going to market it.

Ah, the challenges of being Indie!

Dana


----------



## Mark Adair

Dana Taylor said:


> Craig--
> 
> Thanks for sharing the GraceKrispy site. It was new to me. And congrats on getting even a brief review the Midwest Review. I remember being rejected as too fluffy for them!
> 
> Yes, getting Christian, spiritual and especially non-fiction reviews is a challenge! I'm very close to pubbing my non-fiction spiritual memoir and am wondering how in the heck I'm going to market it.
> 
> Ah, the challenges of being Indie!
> 
> Dana


Hi Dana and Craig. Yeah, I managed to get in to Midwest and overall the review (Amazon, etc.) was pretty good (4 star) - not sure they knew what to do with my combination of suspense/thriller/spiritual novel. I agree it does seems a bit difficult to find reviewers for edgy stuff with spiritual elements in it.


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi--

After I finally publish "Ever-Flowing Streams," I'm going to start a blog for mind-body-spirit books, but will also include Christian authors, if they want to be included. Mind-Body-Spirit has a connotation of  New Age and Eastern Religions that sends conservative Christians running, but I don't think that has to be the case. I guess if it's my blog I can do it my way and if I'm the only one who wants to read it, so be it.

Of course, I don't know the first thing about constructing a blog site, but I'll figure it out.

Dana


----------



## Marc Horne

Hi all. My book This Unhappy Planet (see my sig) is about the rise and fall of a couple of con-men who try and set up a chain of 'Spiritual Fitness Centers' in California. New Age beliefs get lampooned, but so does capitalistic exploitation of spirituality. If you want to see the consumerist side of spirituality, you could check it out. Of course I will charge you for the privilege!

[actually I also have it for free on the main free books sites, but it's only 99c on Kindle]


----------



## Cristian YoungMiller

Dana Taylor said:


> Ah, the challenges of being Indie!


And Ah, the challenges of marketing a spiritual book. From the order of my book releases *'The First Day After Life'* looks like it was the last one that I wrote, but it was the first one. I just never released it because I couldn't figure out how to market it.


----------



## Craig

Dana Taylor said:


> Craig--
> 
> Thanks for sharing the GraceKrispy site. It was new to me. And congrats on getting even a brief review the Midwest Review. I remember being rejected as too fluffy for them!
> 
> Yes, getting Christian, spiritual and especially non-fiction reviews is a challenge! I'm very close to pubbing my non-fiction spiritual memoir and am wondering how in the heck I'm going to market it.
> 
> Ah, the challenges of being Indie!
> 
> Dana


Thanks Dana. Midwest Book Review was my first review, and they still came the closest to understanding what I was going for in "The Job." Here's another review site I found that put some thought into their review: http://literaryrr.blogspot.com/. Beyond that, I've hit a wall.


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hello,

I'm glad to see some action here. Last year I found my way into a contest entitled "Next Top Spiritual Author" that had some "big" names in the spiritual world involved. A contract with Hampton Roads was the Big Prize. It was very interesting because it brought together about 3,000 writers from around the world who were trying to grab that brass ring. I now have a couple hundred contacts from that as potential "spiritual" authors.  But, when I sent out an email about this thread where they can talk about their work nary a one has jumped in. I think often people who want to write "spiritual" don't also think "marketing." But, what's the point of writing or publishing a book nobody knows about?

[email protected] Cristian, I read your book description. Yes! This is what I'm talking about--a book that fictionalizes man's search for meaning. Definitely "Spirit-Lit" or "Mystic Fiction."  And while it may not have the huge market of a police thriller, I'm sure there is a readership out there for these books. I know I'm one reader searching for books on these subjects.

@Craig--very interesting, well-thought-out review, even if the funky font is not easy to read.  Your book is called "The Job."  From reading the review I'm wondering if there is a deeper meaning in the word "Job"--as in the Book of Job and the tribulations he goes through.

Okay, I'm off to edit "Ever-Flowing Streams," my never-ending project.

Have a lovely day--
Dana


----------



## Craig

Dana Taylor said:


> From reading the review I'm wondering if there is a deeper meaning in the word "Job"--as in the Book of Job and the tribulations he goes through.


Yes, you get it.

There was a thread here recently called "Writing for the spirit" that got some activity for awhile and then ran out of gas. I think most authors in the genre have something to say, rather than wanting fame and fortune foremost, and that makes marketing more difficult. In the Christian market, it seems you need to have a ThD or PhD behind your name to be considered legit.

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,40980.0.html


----------



## Dana Taylor

Craig said:


> I think most authors in the genre have something to say, rather than wanting fame and fortune foremost, and that makes marketing more difficult. In the Christian market, it seems you need to have a ThD or PhD behind your name to be considered legit.
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,40980.0.html


Yes, the traditional publishers in both Christian and New Age publishing seem to think a PHD means someone is credible. Maybe. But many of them are BORING WRITERS! I say, let the readers find the writers that capture their interest and imagination.

BTW, my novel Ain't Love Grand? is bouncing around the mental and spiritual healing list, which is awfully fun.

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #30,253 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store) 
#29 in Kindle Store > Books > Nonfiction > Religion & Spirituality > New Age > Mental & Spiritual Healing

Dana


----------



## ThompsonWrites

Mr. RAD said:


> Shame on me for never reading this thread despite having seen it numerous times.
> 
> My work in progress is a Christian piece (in my opinion). However, it doesn't come off all preachy. What truth the main character learns within the story isn't spiritual as even the most irreligious person can take advantage of it. And what is that truth? Well, you'll have to wait until the story is published to find out.
> 
> Certainly KB can have a Christian board. Kind of surprising that it doesn't have one already. Or am I wrong?


great to add you on here Mr. Rad. My book, www.GoliathOnThe Couch.com, is due this June. It has religious tones without the preach factor. I'm guessing similar to your book. Feel free to check out my updates. Cheers.


----------



## Raybrite

I have a lot of morals in my Fantasy book that are just sort of the way people are, however, The Lord's Prayer has outsold it almost 2 to 1.
I may write another religious book.


----------



## Craig

I've got an authors page now at Family Fiction, an online magazine that targets Christian readers. Check it out!

http://www.familyfiction.com/authors/craig-davis/


----------



## Dana Taylor

Happy Sunday
My romantic comedy featuring an herbalist/energy healer "Ain't Love Grand?"  was posted last night on EReaderNewsToday.com, which goes out to 15,000 subscribers. It enjoyed a nice bump in sales, but the most fun part was reaching number 2 on this list http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/158496011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_2_6_last

I wrote this story 10 years ago and it's very exciting to have it finding its audience.

Does anyone have any Sunday Samples posted around?

Dana


----------



## Craig

Dana Taylor said:


> Happy Sunday
> My romantic comedy featuring an herbalist/energy healer "Ain't Love Grand?"  was posted last night on EReaderNewsToday.com, which goes out to 15,000 subscribers. It enjoyed a nice bump in sales, but the most fun part was reaching number 2 on this list http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/158496011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_2_6_last
> 
> I wrote this story 10 years ago and it's very exciting to have it finding its audience.
> 
> Does anyone have any Sunday Samples posted around?
> 
> Dana


My Sunday sample this week is from "Wars of the Aoten," my second book. It's your basic quest adventure, but with a major twist. It's not something I've tried to market, but after my experience with "The Job" I'm kind of rethinking that.
http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/261184-wars-of-the-aoten


----------



## Craig

Broke into the top 50 "Christian fiction humor" category at the Kindle store. Granted, the competition is not that heated, but you take what you can get.


----------



## Craig

Thought I'd mention for followers of this thread, "The Job" broke into the top 50 "Christian fiction humor" books at the Kindle store. I'll take what I can get!


----------



## horsewisevt

I have two single/shorts that are the beginning of a collection of shamanic supernatural/something stories...

Cafe of the Hungry Ghosts, and Behind the Door of Vengeance. Both are grounded in the many years I have spent as a practitioner and teacher of the High Andes shamanic/ spiritual traditions. I also have Dancing in Your Bubble; ancient teaching, modern healing- which is not "lit" so doesn't really fall under this category heading. But I mention it because it was my launching off point in terms of adapting the ancient teachings for western modern living

and yes, I do sort of agree that there is a section of writing that just does not fit neatly into any of the other categories. speculative fiction comes closest- but in a lot of ways, it doesn't, since most people perceive and assume that to mean sci-fi horror etc... rather than shamanic-supernatural/paranormal... Maybe this is the very beginning of a new perception, much the way historical romance/ fiction broke off into its own genre several years ago and became something "respectable" in its own right

Teri

Cafe' of the Hungry Ghosts:

http://www.amazon.com/Cafe-Hungry-Ghosts-ebook/dp/B004SHMQ9O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1302008531&sr=1-1

Behind the Door of Vengeance

http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Door-Vengeance-ebook/dp/B004UW00I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1302008576&sr=1-1


----------



## Cristian YoungMiller

Dana Taylor said:


> [email protected] Cristian, I read your book description. Yes! This is what I'm talking about--a book that fictionalizes man's search for meaning. Definitely "Spirit-Lit" or "Mystic Fiction." And while it may not have the huge market of a police thriller, I'm sure there is a readership out there for these books. I know I'm one reader searching for books on these subjects.


Thanks Dana!
I've put my book 'The First Day After Life' on LibraryThing.com as a free giveaway if anyone was interested in giving it a try and maybe writing an amazon review.

http://www.librarything.com/er/giveaway/list


----------



## Neo22

Hello everyone, just thought of stopping by and reviving this thread a little. If only I had something smart to say... Wishing a nice and quiet Easter.


----------



## Mark Adair

Seems like there are many ways to slice and dice this whole discussion depending on your perspective. Someone used the word organic and I like that choice. One of the main characters in my suspense/thriller, The Father's Child, is quite spiritual. The others not so much. The protagonist has a few spiritual experiences but seriously struggles with all of it. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything or teach a lesson or even take a side. Which gets back to the organic approach to writing and allowing the characters and the story to take whatever route they need to. No coercing, no forcing, no manipulating.


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi--

It's been a while since I've pulled up this thread and see there are some very interesting books mentioned here. This week I put together a newsletter for Supernal Friends that features some of the books regarding the Afterlife that have suddenly become quite popular. Makes me wonder what is happening in our collective subconsious that is making people seek this material.

Here is a link to the newsletter I posted at Author's Den: http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?id=62080&AuthorID=133522

It includes a review I wrote on Lisa Williams' new release "The Survival of the Soul."

Dana Taylor
latest release: Ever-Flowing Streams: Christ, Reiki, Reincarnation & Me


----------



## Dana Taylor

Good morning,

I thought I'd revive this thread. I invite everyone to check out the Facebook page I've put up for "Ever-Flowing Streams" at http://on.fb.me/liqsMm

I've received some very heartfelt reactions to this book, which makes all the effort feel worth while.

Have a great weekend--
Dana Taylor


----------



## Craig

"New" review of The Job at Christian Book Notes -- I just now found it. http://christianbooknotes.com/2011/the-job-by-craig-davis/ "What is more impressive is the deep theological truths underlying this allegorical story." Please check it out and support that blog!


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Are religion and spirit the same thing in today's religions waging war against each other?

I do believe: "Real purpose of a religion is spirituality."


----------



## CraigInOregon

Just wanted to note that MOST LIKELY is young adult Christian fiction and is now available on Smashwords.

It should also appear on Amazon and BN.com in the next day or two...


----------



## Paul Clayton

My historicals have Christian characters.  Having a Christian upbringing, I think I'm pretty adept at portraying that mindset.  And all my characters, well, most of them, are searching for something, not just the McGuffin.  When The Blue World comes out, there will be quite a few religiously oriented stories in it.  It will be interesting to see what kind of a reaction it gets, because it looks at belief from both sides.


----------



## Craig

I have a written version of a study of Esther that I did available now for Kindle. It will be on Amazon eventually for 99¢, but right now it's free on Smashwords.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/62089


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hello--

I hope you are all having a lovely holiday weekend. I invite you to visit my new blog DEFINITELY DANA at http://definitelydana.wordpress.com/

Of course, it's a place to promote my own material, but I will also write reviews of books with some spiritual themes, among other things that interest me.

My first review is of my favorite book, *Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion* by Gregory Boyle



Hop over to Definitely Dana and see what I have to say! http://definitelydana.wordpress.com/

Dana Taylor


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## Meryl Davids Landau

Wow, this is a wonderful thread. Thanks, Dana, for pointing it out to me!

My new novel, Downward Dog, Upward Fog, is a combination of yoga/spirituality/meditation and women's fiction/chick lit. ForeWord Reviews calls the book "an inspirational gem that will appeal to introspective, evolving women." Spirituality & Health magazine says it's "a perfect fun and poignant summer read for gals dancing on a spiritual path." If you are a woman (or man!) struggling to incorporate spiritual principles into your everyday life, you'll relate to Lorna my protagonist! And Dana, you might especially enjoy the two chapters about Lorna's visit to an energy medicine doctor. I hope you'll check the book out! In addition to the sample you can get on Kindle, you can read additional excerpts (including part of the chapter on the energy doc) at the link in my signature.

This is my debut novel, but I'm a longtime magazine writer whose work has been published in O: The Oprah magazine, Whole Living, Reader's Digest, US News & World Report, Prevention, Self, Glamour and others. For those interested in spiritual topics, you might enjoy my recent blog post on Huffington Post, "7 Shortcuts to Daily Bliss." 

Thanks for considering my book! I appreciate it!


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Good to see another thread and another book related to spirituality.
Congratulations. I love anything related to yoga, spirituality. But not fiction; the real thing that I try to practice in everyday life.

Wish you all the best with your book.

BTW, What are free book sites. Are these specific sites that list free books? Can you list some? Excuse my ignorance.



Marc Horne said:


> Hi all. My book This Unhappy Planet (see my sig) ....
> [actually I also have it for free on the main free books sites, but it's only 99c on Kindle]


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi All--

@Meryl--love your title & cover. I've done the "Downward Dog" a lot, but am clueless about the "Upward Frog"!

@Dr. Dhillon--I'm making my way through "Soul and Reincarnation." So much to think about!

I've started a Facebook page for Ever-Flowing Streams  at http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ever-Flowing-Streams-Christ-Reiki-Reincarnation-Me/213850001966493

Happy to report I've been selling a few copies this month!

Dana


----------



## Meryl Davids Landau

Dana Taylor said:


> Hi All--
> 
> @Meryl--love your title & cover. I've done the "Downward Dog" a lot, but am clueless about the "Upward Frog"!


Dana, you have me laughing--thanks for starting my day on an upbeat note!
The title of my book is Downward Dog, Upward FOG, not frog! That refers to the main character's confusion about her life, and her difficulties putting into practice the spiritual teachings she eagerly devours throughout the book!

Kindle lets you download the first two chapters and part of the third in its sample for my book. Although it's not till the end of chapter three that she starts embracing the spiritual teachings, you get a good sense for the novel in all that.

Glad to hear your book's been selling!

Have a great day!
Meryl


----------



## Craig

Here's an interesting review from a non-Christian:

"I'm not a fan of Christian Fiction. At all. Religion is a sore spot for me, so I tend to stay away from the subject, when possible.

I received this book, called The Job, which seemed like a very interesting and funny book, and it is! But it is also Christian. I wouldn't really have thought it, if I didn't read the back, where it mentions the author is Christian and has several reviews by specialized groups/blogs/sites.

That being said, I enjoyed the book, a lot. ... I guess this is another one of those books where we just can't let our prejudice take us away. I loved the book, the funny parts were really funny, the smart parts were quite smart. I do not like morals very much, I admit it, but I think the book shows a great message for everyone, not just Christians, on how life is too complicated and we can only consider and try to make sense of it with our limited vision."

She gave me only three stars on Amazon, but I like this review. It's what I was going for. Here's the full review:
http://brazilianbookworm.blogspot.com/2011/05/review-job-craig-davis.html


----------



## Dana Taylor

Greetings everyone!

@ Meryl--I had myself laughing also when I realized I read your title incorrectly. Maybe we could come up with a new yoga position for the "Upward Frog". I see you around the web and hope "Downward Dog, Upward *Fog*" is doing well!

This morning I posted a book review of the New Age classic The Parables of Kryon by Lee Carroll at my blogsite Definitely Dana www.definitelydana.wordpress.com

Hope everyone is enjoying a great weekend

Dana Taylor
author of Ever-Flowing Streams: Christ, Reiki, Reincarnation & Me


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Hi, folks!

I've merged another thread on Spiritual Literature to this existing Book Bazaar thread.  Sorry for any confusion.

Also, please remember that the genre threads are NOT a way to get around the seven day bumping rule in one's own threads; instead we allow them as a convenience to readers, to permit readers to find indie authors of their preferred genre, all in one place.  As such, excessive bumps by an author about his or her own book will be removed, at the moderator's discretion.  I've removed a few posts from this thread already (mostly because of duplication in the merged threads).  Please don't abuse the genre threads; they are a real benefit to readers (and thus to authors) and I'd hate to have to curtail them.

Also, a reminder that we ask that Amazon reviews not be posted on KB, in full or in part, as they are easy enough to find at your book's Amazon page.  You may post links to Amazon reviews.  Excerpts from reviews from other sources may be posted here (or the full review if it is at most a brief paragraph) as long as the source of the review is credited.  Don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions.

Thanks!

Betsy
KB Moderator


----------



## Craig

Hey Betsy, thanks for quilting together these threads. (See what I did there? Quilting? Threads?)

I'll use this opportunity to point out a Q&A I did with BabsBookBistro. She's hosting a giveaway, so if you'd like a free book, take a chance.
http://www.babsbookbistro.net/blog/2011/06/guest-craig-davis-3-giveaways-us-international.html


----------



## Betsy the Quilter

Craig said:


> Hey Betsy, thanks for quilting together these threads. (See what I did there? Quilting? Threads?)


 

Betsy


----------



## MonkeyScribe

What I do know is that if you write books that deal with spiritual themes, you're going to upset people. I wanted to write a series of polygamy thrillers that had the characters behaving as if they really believed and not just cynical, power hungry, or whatnot. I've had people upset because they felt the books were anti-Mormon, people upset because they felt the books were pro-Mormon, and people who have called to task for not pointing out that Mormonism is not a Christian religion. Needless to say, I don't agree with any of these viewpoints, but all three of those things have garnered me one star reviews.


----------



## CraigInOregon

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Just wanted to note that MOST LIKELY is young adult Christian fiction and is now available on Smashwords.
> 
> It should also appear on Amazon and BN.com in the next day or two...


Should probably update this really old post to say that, yes, my book is now available everywhere eBooks are sold.


----------



## Craig

Congratulations, Craig, hope you have a lot of success. And Michael, I think your observation touches on the issue of how much a writer hits his readers over the head with an apparent agenda. The more overt you are with your testifying or apologetics, the more likely you are to offend or raise up an angry response. One's religion is deeply personal and doesn't really rely on intellectual assent (the just shall live by faith), so to some extent the risk of offense just goes with the territory, but music (and artful writing) has power to soothe the savage breast.

There's still time to get in on the BabsBookBistro giveaway.
http://www.babsbookbistro.net/blog/2011/06/guest-craig-davis-3-giveaways-us-international.html


----------



## Pamela Kay Noble Brown

Craig said:


> Hello everybody. This thread is for discussing writing that touches on spiritual or religious themes, whether it is something you've written or read. So talk about your book here, or about your favorite authors of faith, from Chaucer to Dostoevsky to O'Connor. Doctrinal issues no doubt will come up, but this is not a forum for conversion or condemnation, so please, no sniping.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0041D8XGK


Thanks for this thread Craig, and hello to everyone. If you enjoy reading Christian Fiction Romance, I think you will enjoy "Revelations". Even for a Christian woman love is not all happiness and light. But will Melanie find the strength to love again despite a horrific family history of domestic abuse, or will she just walk away? Find out in "Revelations".

**Note: A reader on one of the Amazon.com discussion boards asked a very interesting question. She asked me did I think it was necessary to put "Christian woman" in my blurb for this book. After thinking about that, I replied that I don't think it's always necessary to put the label Chrisitan or Non-Christian in reference to a character. But in this particular case I thought it was absolutely necessary to help explain some of the choices that the women in my story make.

Also please stop by and visit me at http://www.facebook.com/Pamela.Kay.Noble.Brown .


----------



## aplogansr

What a great thread.  Lots of catching up to do here with everything being offered here.  

Blessings,
Andy


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi Everybody--

Great to see this new weaving of two threads and so many interesting books.

As I write this I have TWO books on the Kindle New Age Spiritual and Mental Healing Bestseller List. -- http://amzn.to/dQhVto

 

Very encouraging!

Dana Taylor


----------



## Anne Maven

I have a book with a spiritual, though not a religious, theme. It has elements of philosophy and spirituality. The characters develop through the book based on these concepts. 
It's called "With you in my heart".
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0057ZYN5G.

Thanks,
Anne


----------



## Dana Taylor

MichaelWallace said:


> What I do know is that if you write books that deal with spiritual themes, you're going to upset people. I wanted to write a series of polygamy thrillers that had the characters behaving as if they really believed and not just cynical, power hungry, or whatnot. I've had people upset because they felt the books were anti-Mormon, people upset because they felt the books were pro-Mormon, and people who have called to task for not pointing out that Mormonism is not a Christian religion. Needless to say, I don't agree with any of these viewpoints, but all three of those things have garnered me one star reviews.


Yes, we do make ourselves targets for controversy when we take on issues of the spirit. Look at all the wars being waged over matters of faith. My cheerful romance "Ain't Love Grand?" got its first 1 star review out of thousands of sales from a man who called it a "full religious trap." Guess I hit his hot buttons! But, there's a certain satisfaction in knowing your writing evoked a passionate response, even if it is negative. I'm grateful that I've not received a review yet that simply said, "Boring."

Anyway--I'm very honored that this week Christopher Smith of WEEK IN REWIND has chosen Ever-Flowing Streams: Christ, Reiki, Reincarnation & Me for his GIVEAWAY PROMOTION









You'll find it here: http://bit.ly/qZSHHS


----------



## Dana Taylor

Hi there--

The Spiritual Author community is beginning to come together at Facebook. Gavin Veere, who has several books on "A Course in Miracles" has started the Kindle Spiritual Book Community at Facebook. Check it out: http://on.fb.me/qEo0Pn

Also there is a group that came together via the Next Top Spiritual Author Contest and has a growing base. It is an open group http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/121315021212518/
Also, I have a new bookcover and expanded title because nobody knew what the book was about. Drum roll please!










Hope you're all having a wonderful holiday!

Dana Taylor


----------



## Craig

Thanks for the info Dana. I hope your new cover works better for you.

I too have news: I've cut the prices to all my books to 99¢. The new price is in place at the Kindle store and at Smashwords. I've also increased the free sample for "The Job" at Smashwords, so please give it a look! Thanks, and good reading!
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B004WHAL1K


----------



## The Fussy Librarian

I'm late to this thread but wow, I'm glad I found it! Scrolling through, it's fascinating how many different spiritual areas are represented here and yet we're all having thoughtful and adult discussions about faith.

As a writer, I'm new to the religious fiction genre but I've come to the same conclusion as many of the other authors here -- focus on the big picture. Characters in our novels, whether they are Jewish, Mormon, Christian or Muslim, all have faith in common. They all wrestle with the challenges that come with being a believer and, in the end, that's what makes our characters "real" and believable and helps us escape from the dogma that you sometimes see in our genre.

I'll also throw this into the pot for discussion -- HAVE FUN. Our books can be entertaining and funny. Reading a novel of religious fiction shouldn't feel like homework.


----------



## *DrDLN* (dr.s.dhillon)

Dana Taylor said:


> Yes, we do make ourselves targets for controversy when we take on issues of the spirit. Look at all the wars being waged over matters of faith.


I thought realization of spirit should help end these wars. It's blind faith that ignores the spirit makes people fanatic and that becomes cause of wars.

Religion and spirituality are inseparable parts of life and social organization. The questions about the relationship of religion and spirituality are important. All religions have some basic moral principles of freedom, equality, compassion, and justice though they differ in customs, rituals, and symbols. The spiritual message of any religion cannot be changed. The paths may be different; the destination to realize the spiritual nature is the same. Those of us for whom religion is nothing more than rituals and symbols without spiritual message eventually kill the religion and the human spirit. They think by following the rituals they are saving the community. These gate-keepers of religion, often due to false ego, think their ways of following the religion are superior. It's reflection of their own insecurity.

Unfortunately, most human beings do not try to understand, or can be fooled by religious fanatics, and the religious establishment, so they do not distinguish between the outward forms and symbols of religion and the underlying principles of spiritual message. That is how the fanatics have historically used religion for their own purposes, oppressing persons of other faiths. Numerous crimes have thus been committed, and wars fought, in the name of religion. We can say there is an inseparable spiritual connection at the fundamental level. Any theocratic community based on fanatic aspect of a particular religion is bound to create second-class citizenship, resulting in injustice and oppression. Our focus should be to improve our spirituality and not the superficial aspects of a religion.

Moghul empire spread like wild fire when Akbar followed universal religion called "Deene Elahi" and the empire ended when fanatic Aurangzeb forcibly converted people to Islam. The lesson is to accept people whether within religion or between religion.


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## preacher777

My new book entitled The Kinship of Jesus by Thomas and Christine Schrader is now available on Kindle books for $2.99. It is an interesting and easy read, and the facts in this book will whet your appetite for more of the information packed into this short volume.

This book has a wealth of information about people in the blood line of Mary, the mother of Jesus. For instance, did you know that King David was the 41st. great-grandfather of Jesus? Although Solomon succeeded his father King David on the throne, it was actually King David's son, Nathan, who was in the blood line of Mary.

Did you know that Eve, the mother of all living, was the 74th. great-grandmother of Jesus?

Be the first in your peer group to know these exciting facts. Impress your friends with your knowledge of the Bible.

http://www.amazon.com/Kinship-Jesus-Thomas-Schrader-ebook/dp/B00L1GSRAC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403355503&sr=8-1&keywords=Kinship+of+Jesus


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## Alm Hlgh

Hey Craig thank you for this thread. I would like to talk about a few spiritual theme books. One that helped me cope and get through a lot of drama with my job, family and health issues is called "Devil Go to Hell".

One woman's personal experience as she attempts to NOT react when things happen to her and allow God to do battle for her. What I liked about the book is, that she admits it took her several months before she could actually do a "whole" 30 days without opening up her mouth or reacting to things and situations.



The other book, "Devil-Free InZone" builds off the first book but tells us what we can do to be proactive with God. One of the things I liked about this book is her attempt (not sure if she succeeds or not) to explain Universal Laws as simple Bible principles.


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## godchild

The Kinship of Jesus by Thomas and Christine Schrader is only ninety-nine cents.

This book traces the genealogy of Jesus through the blood line of Mary. It lists the relatives of Jesus in chronological order from Adam to Jesus. Also the meaning of each name is included.

Next is a list of the relatives of Jesus in alphabetical order for convenience in looking up a name and the relationship of that person to Jesus. Some names have been added because of their unique relationship to the Lord, although they might not be named in the genealogy list. However, the relationship of other relatives, such as Moses, is interesting for study. There is also a short biography of each person.

The book concludes with the twelve tribes or sons of Jacob. The second list shows what tribes inherited the land promised to Abraham's seed.

http://www.amazon.com/Kinship-Jesus-Thomas-Schrader-ebook/dp/B00L1GSRAC/ref=la_B007DJNGJI_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420298723&sr=1-1


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## Christine Tate

Put the fun back in your women's small group Bible study with "The No-Homework Women's Bible Study: Group Hug" series.  Spend 8 weeks with your Christian sisters deepening fellowship bonds, growing in Christ and engaging in spiritual self-exploration covering a variety of everyday topics.  Let the Holy Spirit lead your group as you engage your critical thinking skills and embark on an amazing journey.  Join the Group Hug conversation today!  You'll be glad you did.


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## godchild

We wrote a cookbook titled Yummy Tummy Cookbook and it has a Scripture promise at the end of each recipe. In everything we do we try to bring glory to the Lord Jesus and we try to use a soft witness, not preachy. The book sells for &1.99 on Kindle.

http://www.amazon.com/YUMMY-TUMMY-COOKBOOK-Thomas-Schrader-ebook/dp/B00TIXWZLW/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1423923542&sr=1-1&keywords=Yummy+Tummy+Cookbook+by+Thomas+and+Christine+Schrader


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## Alm Hlgh

If you can commit 4 thirty days; you can change the destiny of your life.


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## AltMe

I've only just noticed this thread.

I have a series called "The wisdom of the Ages is available for the price of asking a question" which came from a forum thread of the same name which ran for over three years. There are 8 books, all novella size, with the last one being short novel size. 1 to 5 are question and answer format. 6, 7 and 8 are themed.

This year, I also wrote "101 Tips for the John of God Brazil Experience".

Rather than filling the thread with links, 3 of these are in my signature at this time, and the rest can be seen on my author page.


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## AltMe

There is a book available called "Liao-Fan's Four Lessons". It is 500 years old, and the best book on understanding Karma there is. Its companion book is called "Changing Destiny".

Both are available in PDF format for FREE off my website. http://aasariel.com/angelforums/viewtopic.php?t=32

Both are available as paperbacks for FREE, from any Amitabha Buddhist society wayplace.

Both are available for sale on Kindle, by people who do not own the rights to sell them, since they are freely distributed. I mention it here so no-one pays for what is freely available. The copyright owners understand the karma of those selling their free books, and have no need to take any action to stop them. But there's no point in anyone I know being sucked into buying a copy when its Free.


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## bookly

Hi all!  I'm a new author. My first book, Falling as She Sings, is up for possible publication by Kindle Scout. When you read the description, you might not think it has a spiritual theme, but it does! You can go to the link at the bottom of this post to check it out. Thanks!  CJ

FREE IF IT WINS WITH YOUR NOMINATIONS to Kindle Scout

Falling as She Sings
by C.J. Sursum
Her job is to control men's bodies.
As society collapses, a rich woman builds a technologically sustainable enclave—for women only. Inside its walls, women lead lives of culture and ease. Outside, men devolve into feral, violent Brutes, needed by the women for one purpose only—reproduction. But beautiful Menna slips up when extracting a captured Brute’s seed. Disturbing interactions with him shatter her preconceptions of Brutes and of herself, forcing her to choose between her sterile existence and a harsh, brutish unknown.


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## preacher777

I am happy to announce that my new book Find It Fast In The Bible by Thomas Schrader is now for sale on Amazon.

Find It Fast In The Bible is a Christian reference book that gives you scriptures for topics from A to Z. It is a handy reference that can be used on most electronic devices. You can quickly and easily access topic scriptures for personal study, while witnessing, or in Sunday school or church. Hundreds of scriptures are just seconds away.

Topics from abortion to zeal and all the ones in between are at your fingertip. All this information can be found in this one book and sold at the incredibly low price of only ninety-nine cents.

https://www.amazon.com/Find-Fast-Bible-Thomas-Schrader-ebook/dp/B01MCR4PXS/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478283471&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Find+It+Fast+In+The+Bible+b+y+Thomas+Schrader


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## preacher777

I am happy to announce that my new book Find It Fast In The Bible by Thomas Schrader is now for sale on Amazon.

Find It Fast In The Bible is a Christian reference book that gives you scriptures for topics from A to Z. It is a handy reference that can be used on most electronic devices. You can quickly and easily access topic scriptures for personal study, while witnessing, or in Sunday school or church. Hundreds of scriptures are just seconds away.

Topics from abortion to zeal and all the ones in between are at your fingertip. All this information can be found in this one book and sold at the incredibly low price of only ninety-nine cents.

https://www.amazon.com/Find-Fast-Bible-Thomas-Schrader-ebook/dp/B01MCR4PXS/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478283471&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Find+It+Fast+In+The+Bible+b+y+Thomas+Schrader


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## preacher777

I am happy to announce that my new book Find It Fast InThe Bible by Thomas Schrader is now for sale on Amazon.

Find It Fast InThe Bible is a Christian reference book that gives you scriptures for topics from A to Z. It is a handy reference that can be used on most electronic devices. You can quickly and easily access topic scriptures for personal study, while witnessing, or in Sunday school or church. Hundreds of scriptures are just seconds away.

Topics from abortion to zeal and all the ones in between are at your fingertip. All this information can be found in this one book and sold at the incredibly low price of only ninety-nine cents.

https://www.amazon.com/Find-Fast-Bible-Thomas-Schrader-ebook/dp/B01MCR4PXS/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478283471&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Find+It+Fast+In+The+Bible+b+y+Thomas+Schrader


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## TheWriter

Hello, all! I have my upcoming novel *If Only* up on Kindle Scout. You can view the excerpt and nominate the book for publication by using the link below. If the book is chosen for publication, you'll receive a free copy!








View on Kindle Scout​
_How far will one mother go to find her child?_​
A full year after a painful divorce, Elizabeth's seventeen-year-old daughter Lillian decides to visit a friend over the Fourth of July weekend but never returns home. With the help of her neighborhood friend Cole, Elizabeth tries to make sense of what really happened and hopefully bring her daughter home.​
View on Kindle Scout​
***If you enjoy the book excerpt, please find me on Facebook!


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## Christine Tate

I'd just like to let everyone know about an annual Christian Authors Festival in Virginia Beach that I produce.  This year on March 18 from 12:45-3:15, Christian Authors will display their books to the general public at the MEO Central Library.  Seminars will also be available for the public to attend.  If anyone would like information on attending as an exhibiting author, feel free to contact me at [email protected]  This is the third year I have been doing the festival.


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## frozbie

It's well known that Jesus had a lot to say about money, one of his most famous questions: "What good is it for you to gain the whole world, but lose your soul?" has often caused me to consider if I'm on the right path.

Double Your Salary, without losing your soul aims to address a difficult topic for many: Is it ever right to seek to earn more.

I relate my own experience of thinking I was earning enough, only to find that my salary didn't increase as fast as bills went up. That as our family grew, we struggled to cope, and saving just wasn't possible.

It seems clear that Jesus warned against making the pursuit of wealth our goal (seek instead the kingdom of God), yet Jesus never contradicted God's word found in the Old Testament, that those who served God, those that were obedient to God, that those who were wise would prosper.

So, is it justifiable to seek to double your salary? Does trying to earn more conflict with Jesus teaching on money and wealth?

Double Your Salary attempts to be accessible to Christians and non-Christians. I'm honest about the influence my faith, God's word, and Christian teaching has had on my working life. Honest also about the decisions I've made to walk away from "secure" jobs to serve God. Yet also including more general advice on how to increase your salary that anyone can apply.

Reviewers on Goodreads have been positive, calling the book open and honest, easy to read, and with valuable, down to earth advice.

I'd appreciate your feedback on whether the book is accessible, of value, or even if too "preachy"...

Now free on Kindle Unlimited.

Part autobiography, part self-help, I share how I doubled my salary three times, the difficulties and choices I faced, and offer suggestions and advice for anyone who feels trapped in a low wage job.

Available in all Amazon stores

...and if you have your own stories to share of how you overcame poverty, or increased your income, and how your faith impacts your bottom line, I'd love to hear them.

#Autobiography #SelfHelp #KindleUnlimited #KU #Free


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## poetryebook

&#128075;

Last year I put out a book of Jewish poetry inspired by communal worship experiences in and out of a synagogue environment. 
It includes a glossary for those who might be unfamiliar with common Hebrew and Yiddish terms used within the practice of Judaism.

The book is called Paradise Collectors if you happen to be interested. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085JVFHRM/


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