# Adventures in Audiobooks. It's time for you to get yours!



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Many people have listened to my interview over on Rocking Self Publishing, or have heard me talk about my audiobooks here. As of today my first one has 126 reviews, all garnered in just five weeks. I have double digit sales every day, and the audiobook represents well over 50% of my writing income.

Man that sounds braggy (which is totally a real word). I don't intend it to. I'm going to explain my theories about my audiobook's success, and along the way try to convince you to get one of your own made. I'll do my best to keep this from becoming an epic wall of text, but no promises.

*Getting Started*

The very first thing I did (and recommend you do) is read Simon Whistler's _Audiobook For Indies_. It's a short, easy to digest read that explains every avenue of audiobooks. Want to go through ACX with a royalty share so you don't have to spend anything up front? Covered. Want to record it yourself? Covered. Want to just pay someone? Covered.

Go buy the book. Don't worry, I'll wait for you to get back. Got it? Awesome.

I used ACX and chose to pay a narrator up front. This meant I chose an hourly rate, in my case $150. That's per finished hour, so if your book is long like mine it will cost a lot. Mine paid for itself very quickly, but I have to stress that this is NOT typical. Most books will take much longer to earn out, but if you have the capital remember that we're talking about a 7 year term. If you sold just one copy a day for that period of time you'd earn something like $7-10k.

If the up front capital is an issue, not to worry. You can do a royalty split. Both you and the narrator are equally vested in the project. This can be harder if your book isn't already successful, because you have to convince the narrator your book is worth the risk.

Once you've picked your route you list your book on ACX with a couple chapters set up as an audition. I received 17 in the first three days. Your mileage may vary, especially if you're doing a royalty split. Make sure the person you pick has a range that will cover all characters.

*Advantages and Disadvantages of Whispersync*

Amazon may choose, at their discretion, to set up Whispersync on your book. If they do readers can use it in the Kindle app, and more importantly they can purchase the book at a steeply discounted price after buying the ebook. In my case that means a $1.99 sale on top of the ebook and I get a 40% commission on it.

80 cents doesn't sound like much, but this is where the magic happens. Audible's also bought books work just like Amazon, but with one key difference. There are a lot less audiobooks, so if your book sells a lot of copies early on it's very possible to proliferate an entire sub-genre.

_No Such Thing As Werewolves_ is present on almost a quarter of the also boughts in Fantasy: Paranormal, and also appears on a number of lists in related genres. This was only possible because my book was so cheap. A ton of people bought it, which spread the book all over audible. My theory is that this is why the book continues to be so successful. Some of the books I'm on lists for are best sellers, including Mark Tufo's_ Lycan Fallout 2_. I'll bet my meager earnings that his book alone accounts for a big chunk of my sales.

For comparison I'll use Domino's _Seventh Sons_ (go read it), which came out within two days of _No Such Thing As Werewolves_. Both are werewolf books. Both are awesome (I'm totally not biased. I'm also lying about being biased). There were only two differences. First, my book was over twice as long as Domino's. Second, I had Whispersync and he didn't.

Right now I have about 10x as many reviews, and I assume a similar disparity in sales. I'm willing to bet Whispersync represents the vast majority of that disparity. Here's the thing. Domino gets paid a LOT more per sale, so if he hasn't paid for his audiobook yet I'm willing to bet he soon will (feel free to chime in Domino).

Conclusion? Whispersync equals exposure, but also costs you a slice of your profit. Your book is cheaper, which is both good and bad. So how do you get Whispersync? Your book has to be nearly identical to the audiobook. Also, Amazon has to think your book is good enough to add it. If you publish an audiobook and don't have it you can talk to ACX and they may add it for you.

*Promoting your audiobook*

Ebook readers, paperback readers and audiobook readers are all different groups of people. Sure there is some overlap, but if you want to sell audiobook copies you have to find audiobook consumers. Whether you have Whispersync or not part of this is already done for you simply by having an audibook. It appears on your ebook page, and any reader can click through to buy it.

So any promotion for your ebook should spill over to your audiobook. In addition there are a number of reviewers and sites dedicated solely to audiobooks. I am just beginning to discover these, but I've found they are FAR less competitive than corresponding ebook sites simply because there is a lot less audiobooks.

ACX will give you at least 25 free codes, and you can request another 25. Some people have gotten as many as 100. You can give these out to reviewers to gain some traction. I've had some success here already, and am waiting for a couple big reviews to drop.

*Conclusions*

If you do a royalty split you can get your audiobook up _for free._ That means there is absolutely no reason not to create this awesome new revenue stream. It might not buy you a second house, but even if it just pays for coffee that's more money than you had.

Creating your audiobook isn't that had, and Simon's book will help you do that. So my advice? Read it and get started. What have you got to lose?

I'm cutting the post here but am available to answer questions. It's a complicated topic, but I'd encourage you not to be intimidated. You CAN do this and it may work out to be a great investment of both time and money.


----------



## DawnLee (Aug 17, 2014)

Thanks, Chris. In the research you've done on audiobooks, have you found that certain genres are more popular than others?


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

I haven't studied every genre, but Sci-Fi does extremely well. Especially post-apocalyptic Sci-Fi.

I have a friend who is #400 in the whole store with her cozy mystery. She'll be getting the audiobook done shortly, and I suspect it will sell very well via audible. I'm betting See You will as well.


----------



## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

Simon Whistler's _Audiobook For Indies_ is available in KU or KOLL too.


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

Glad to hear you're having success Chris.

Another option you didn't mention is that you can license your audio rights, or sell them outright. I currently have audio license rights to two books, even though I don't have rights to the books themselves. The standard ACX contract is a bit vague on licensing, but you can do an alternate to the royalty share contact outside of ACX, but still use ACX as the gateway to Audible.  The 50% split is pretty high risk for most narrators because once your book goes on whispersync, their share drops way down.  

On ACX, there's almost 7,000 books listed for royalty share, but only about two dozen for a realistic pay per hour rate.


----------



## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

Another great post, Chris! I'll have to have you on my blog sometime to talk about your success.

The Royalty Share option is something I'm considering, but, like you and others have said, it's hard to convince a narrator to take a risk on my book when it's new and doesn't have any success to brag for.


----------



## Mip7 (Mar 3, 2013)

I’m venturing into this now. I have two in production at the moment, both on royalty split. Both Kindle books are ranked well at the moment and are on multiple subgenre bestseller lists, which is nearly the only thing I bothered pointing out in the project description. I put up short auditions, just a couple pages from the books. I found I was getting 1-2 auditions per day, but most of the narrators did not have much of a resume. They all sounded good to me to be honest and I had a tough time choosing. One guy asked for three months however, so I kicked him and went with another. I gave both narrators one month.

One of the books is currently bouncing between 1,500 and 2,000 in ranking (thanks largely to KU downloads) and I’m surprised I didn’t get more auditions. This is a smart project for the narrator and probably a terrible business decision for me – but I’m new to this and just can’t pull the trigger on a $2,000 production cost. Got a feeling I’m going to regret that. But, there’s always the next book.

One thing not mentioned here yet is you need new cover art created. Must be square, 2400x2400 72 DPI and cannot look stretched. Must be built from scratch using your book cover fonts and images to look good on these dimensions.


----------



## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

You will definitely get less auditions when proposing a royalty share, especially if you're a prawn.

Chris has had astronomical audiobook success, which is awesome because it (for a while at least) outstripped his great ebook success.

My numbers have been much more meager. After the first week, I thought it would pay for itself in a month, but sales always slow down. I'm probably 80% of the way there but I've noticed a 30 day cliff where my sales quickly dropped (notice that at all Chris?). I have been on the phone with support trying to get whispersynced because my entire business plan was to have Book 1 be a very attractive loss leader with all the bells and whistles. I'll just have to wait and see on that.

I do believe _No Such Thing_ is better branded for werewolves and is a longer offering, these things make it an easier sale. Another huge advantage Chris had was that his ebook was already selling like gangbusters. Hopefully the countdown deals we both ran propagate to our other titles (Chris just released _The First Ark_ on audible as well).

Overall, I would do it again in a heartbeat. In fact, _The Blood of Brothers_ is already in production. But I'll see a more modest ROI, especially with the longer Book 2, and break even at 2-4 months (which is still great).


----------



## Kirk Hanley (Dec 16, 2014)

There is also the option to record your own audiobook. It is a lot more work up front, but since you don't have to split your royalty with a narrator/producer, your royalty share is effectively doubled. 

It can be intimidating, but if your interested, my book (below) will show you how I do it.

Kirk


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Domino Finn said:


> You will definitely get less auditions when proposing a royalty share, especially if you're a prawn.
> 
> Chris has had astronomical audiobook success, which is awesome because it (for a while at least) outstripped his great ebook success.
> 
> ...


I did see a cliff after 30 days, but right afterwards I ran that countdown and the numbers rebounded. Tomorrow will be interesting as it will show me the first post sale numbers and I can see if the cliff is happening. Of course since The First Ark just launched and that is linked to No Such Thing As Werewolves I'm helping that will improve sales for both books.

Either way I think we're on the same page (as are other people here). Audiobooks are another revenue stream, and one that can pay for itself even if it takes a few months. I'd love to hear from people who've done the royalty split and how they attracted their narrators.


----------



## Pamela Beason (Dec 18, 2014)

I've heard that it's much harder to get narrators to do a royalty share now that Amazon cut back the audio royalties. Do you know if that's true?


----------



## Sever Bronny (May 13, 2013)

Great post, Chris, fantastic info. Bookmarked for detailed study 

EDIT: Woo! My 1000th post. How appropriate it's on your thread, Chris


----------



## Claire Frank (Jul 28, 2014)

This is awesome. Thanks so much for sharing!


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

I attracted my two royalty-split narrators two years ago, when ACX was the shiny new thing and there weren't yet 7,000 books up for audition. 

So far, in two years, those two audio books together have made less than $50.


----------



## JeffreyKafer (May 22, 2011)

Pamela Beason said:


> I've heard that it's much harder to get narrators to do a royalty share now that Amazon cut back the audio royalties. Do you know if that's true?


Absolutely true. The narrator bears ALL the risk and with dwindling royalties, we're much less likely to take it on. Too much work.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

First, Chris, congratulations!

Just a quick FYI, because when I was considering audio, it was so hard to get ANY numbers or information-- I've been told on very good authority that a realistic time frame to use in deciding whether this investment is a reasonable one, for an ebook that is selling quite well, would be expecting that you might earn out after 18 months or so. Audio is really tradpub-heavy, and very new-release-intensive. There's a strong 30-day cliff. Because indies don't have a pricing advantage, they also don't have a sales advantage in audio the way they do in ebooks. 

This will vary, obviously, by genre and by book. Interestingly, romance is NOT very strong in audio. Sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, and nonfiction seem to do much better. (You can see this by taking a look at the Top 100 list on Amazon, and comparing it to the Top 100 books on Audible.) Although I think erotica and erotic romance do reasonably well, because, well, sex. 

I'm not trying to be discouraging. I think if you write in the above genres, you have a great narrator, and your book is doing well in ebook, it can be a wonderful added revenue stream. Personally, I've had good luck with audio and an excellent ACX experience, and am glad I did it. But I did it once I could afford the risk of the investment, and for my second series, I sold the audio rights, & am very happy I did that too! (Those books aren't out yet.)

As a point of comparison, earning out takes about 4-5 months on average for me (but my books cost $4-5,000 each to produce). And along the lines of the above-mentioned actual-numbers info-sharing--I've sold almost 7,000 audiobooks in about exactly one year--out 12 months, 10 months, 6 months, 3 months, 2 weeks. All the books have been in the Top 100 in Contemp Romance in audio, most in the Top 20, and one in the Top 10, so I've done well, but those are "doing-well" numbers in romance.  I've spent about $16K in a year to produce those five books.

(Oh: and that's at the old 50% royalty rate. Earning out--earning $4,000 or whatever--in 4 months or so.)

I too have heard that royalty share is hard to get nibbles on these days. If a narrator is interested, it's probably because an author is selling well enough that they COULD pay up front. Kind of a Catch-22, unfortunately. 

On the other hand--the reason I've done as well in audio as I have, I'm convinced, is my fantastic, pricey narrator. She really makes the books. It's well worth paying for the very best person you can find IMHO. (Which may not, of course, be the most expensive, although it was for me. If you can find somebody for $200 PFH or whatever who's great--yay!)

And again, info-sharing w/ numbers--I pay $380 PFH.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Oh, a few additional tips, things that have helped me:

1) It can help to set up an ARC group to whom you can send your ACX codes in exchange for an honest (written) review. Keep track of who actually reviewed. Send emails beforehand announcing the book, another email with the code, a follow-up email to those who haven't reviewed yet after 10 days or so, and another email at 2 weeks afterwards, telling them "time to review, or you're off the team" (more nicely, of course!) I give 2 weeks for reviews, and figure it may take 3. (I do, of course, have all those reviewers state that they got a free copy in exchange for an honest review.) My review group is about 25 people.

2) Create a dedicated page on your website for your audiobooks, and use Soundcloud to post a chapter or your 5-minute sample of each audiobook.

You can see my page at http://www.rosalindjames.com/audiobooks/

3) If you have a mailing list, of course send them the announcement of the new book with the sample. (Which reminds me, I'm overdue on this. Got one out 2 weeks and haven't sent. But I was finishing a book!)

Hope it's OK to add to the sharing on your thread, Chris, from the perspective (not huge, obviously) of a year, and 5 books, into this deal. Congrats again.


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

I put my book Gone up for a royalty share just to see what would happen. I'd heard that it's hard to get royalty splits, but I had three interested parties within a short time. One of them sounded almost exactly like what I had imagined. He produced it quickly (faster that it took me to sit down and listen to all eight hours!) and now I'm just waiting for it to show up on Amazon.

I'm not sure if I was just lucky or if there are more narrators willing to do royalty splits to build their portfolio, but what I _think_ helped me was:
-Good cover & blurb
-A lot of reviews in a short time (on ebook)
-My promise to promote the audio book and providing numbers of my social media following


----------



## Dom (Mar 15, 2014)

Great stuff, Rosalind. Interesting that you sold some audiobook rights.

My only comment is that I think indies still have a price advantage with audiobooks, and that's when it comes to whispersync. Gone Girl and The Burning Room allow ebook purchasers to add-on an audiobook for $12.99, but for No Such Thing as Werewolves, it's $1.99. I haven't exhaustively checked if this is a trad versus indie thing, but it would make sense that the big boys don't want to sell audio so cheaply.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Domino Finn said:


> Great stuff, Rosalind. Interesting that you sold some audiobook rights.
> 
> My only comment is that I think indies still have a price advantage with audiobooks, and that's when it comes to whispersync. Gone Girl and The Burning Room allow ebook purchasers to add-on an audiobook for $12.99, but for No Such Thing as Werewolves, it's $1.99. I haven't exhaustively checked if this is a trad versus indie thing, but it would make sense that the big boys don't want to sell audio so cheaply.


Could be! And yes, I personally think WS helps. For your more avid readers--they seem to like to listen as well as read, especially if they can do it for $2. Those are definitely just added sales, and they push your book up the charts and help with visibility.

Also, bounties.  I'm pretty sure those WS audiobooks are the big reason for most of the bounties I've earned. At $50/bounty, that's one heck of a good royalty on a WS!


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Awesome tips, Rosalind. I love that we're hearing from people with a lot of experience in the audio arena.

Stacy, how is your audiobook selling?


----------



## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Chris Fox said:


> Stacy, how is your audiobook selling?


I'm waiting for it to go live. I just approved it a few days ago.


----------



## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> For your more avid readers--they seem to like to listen as well as read


Speaking as a reader without enough reading time on her hands to call herself "avid" anymore, I love Whipersync. (In fact, if the ebook + audio price were as high as a trade paperback price, I'd still feel it was plenty good value; I think Amazon prices too low on WS audio.) Being able to switch to audio when I'm preparing dinner then pick up where I left off in the ebook when I have a few free moments before bed lets me make far better use of what time I have. Before WS, I could read one book and listen to a different one, sure, but I really appreciate being able to stay with the same book, especially when I'm going through periods where I can only snatch five or ten minutes at a time. Being able to stick with one book makes it feel less herky-jerky.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

One more: Audible does typically Whispersync any book that's selling well (I think that's the criterion, anyway), but there's a queue for it, and no real way to get moved up the queue. I've actually had, in the past, the ACX person who deals with WS tell me he's bugged that dept. every week and that he's maybe hurried them up, but still had it take 3 months--on a book that was selling very well. Other times, the WS is up while the book is in pre-order, so the book goes live WS'd. Odd. It's not matching to text, because my books all match at about the same rate, well above the 95% requirement, and it's the same narrator. It may just be how many other books are in the WS queue at the time, I think. 

For what that's worth, since it's pretty baffling. (I do SUSPECT that non-ACX books go higher in the queue, but...who knows.)


----------



## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Z. Rider said:


> Speaking as a reader without enough reading time on her hands to call herself "avid" anymore, I love Whipersync. (In fact, if the ebook + audio price were as high as a trade paperback price, I'd still feel it was plenty good value; I think Amazon prices too low on WS audio.) Being able to switch to audio when I'm preparing dinner then pick up where I left off in the ebook when I have a few free moments before bed lets me make far better use of what time I have. Before WS, I could read one book and listen to a different one, sure, but I really appreciate being able to stay with the same book, especially when I'm going through periods where I can only snatch five or ten minutes at a time. Being able to stick with one book makes it feel less herky-jerky.


My Fire does this for me without paying extra for audio, though, with text-to-speech. It has come a LONG way and sounds almost natural now, when my Fire reads to me.


----------



## Edward Giordano (Dec 20, 2014)

I doubt if any of you are looking for a narrator, but I would love to be given a chance!

https://soundcloud.com/edwardgiordano/full-moon-rising

Feel free to email me [email protected] or twitter me @EdwardGiordano

Open to all projects and royalty is preferred!


----------



## susan_illene (Aug 10, 2014)

I sold the rights for my series off to Tantor, but it was the best decision for me.  Many of my author friends were telling me how much extra time it took for them to handle everything themselves.  Time that took away from writing and other things.  I didn't have the motivation or patience for that with so much else on my plate.  Letting an audio publisher handle everything made my life a lot easier and they did still let me choose between three very experienced narrators who'd done audiobooks for bestselling authors in my genre.  That was nice considering who knows how much that would have cost me on my own.

My first book was whispersynced while still on pre-order and can be bought for $2.99 if the customer already owns the ebook.  It's my own fault I forgot I had a sample in the back of book 2 so it didn't get WS and now that the extra bit is removed I'm hoping it will get WS soon, but book 2.5 got it while on pre-order.  Book 3 has an added short story at the end of the audio that is sold separately for ebook so I'm out on WS for that one.  Hoping book 4 will get it once it goes up on retailers since there shouldn't be any issues with it.  

On the downside, my royalties are lower than if I'd done it myself and I have no idea how much I'll have sold until the first six month report comes in.  That's a little unnerving when I'm used to being able to check sales data anytime, but considering I got a small advance and no upfront costs I can't complain too much.  Especially since it might have taken me years to get around to audio on my own.  I really had no motivation to bother.

Despite the lack of sales data I can say I'm pleased with how things are going so far.  My first audiobook just released about two months ago with several more from the series following shortly after and from what I can tell I'm doing good so far.  Audio has certainly broadened my audience, which is great.  I also enjoy hearing about other people's experiences.  It's good to have as much information as possible for future decisions.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I found that it took a little over 90 days for WS to kick in on my books, but that was just right because the books had earned out just before that. I also found that maybe 1 in 5 people buy using WS (rough estimate based upon royalty drop) Like Ros, I've been doing audio a year. Most of my sales were in the first 6 months and came from my most popular series (Merkiaari Wars) The series that sold the least didn't have a permafree book 1 because it was stuck in KU purgatory. That's free now, and I am hoping to see audio respond.

So in 11 months I have sold 6100 units. I have all my back list in audio now, with the last 4 in production. I paid up front for each, and the income covered the cost so far of 10 out of the 12 audio books. 

I buy a ton of audio myself and I can tell you that the narrator is super important. Think of it like this: When you read text, if the story is good you can overlook grammar or word usage (maybe) but it has to be really compelling, right? That won't work in audio. If the narrator is not excellent, you will get returns and bad reviews. The narrator is MORE important than anything in audio. Imagine a book you loved, but the movies was crap because of poor acting. 

Your narrator is your actor. He needs to be GREAT, because there is no way you can ignore 15 hours of poor acting piped into your ears. Pay for the best you can afford. He/she will make or break your audio book.


----------



## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

Cherise Kelley said:


> My Fire does this for me without paying extra for audio, though, with text-to-speech. It has come a LONG way and sounds almost natural now, when my Fire reads to me.


My mind wanders easily, so I need engaging narrators (like Finty Williams doing The Girl With All the Gifts-oh my god she was great) or else when I hit "stop," I have no idea what happened while the book was going. Text-to-speech hasn't managed to get engaging yet, has it?


----------



## DavidBainAA (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks, Chris. I'm a longtime fan of audibooks (I drive a lot for work) and have been excited to have my own work become available audibly. I have to chime in and agree that the use of the promo codes can help kickstart. Call it inexperience, but I barely used any of them with my first few audibooks. But I used all 25 with the December launch of the audiobook for my crime/horror novel GRAY LAKE and saw a lot more sales (if not reviews) on that one. Maybe just word of mouth, but it was enough for the sales of that one to be noticeably higher the first month. The thing is several of the other titles I have available in audio generally move more than GRAY LAKE in ebook format, but that's the title that sells more in audio now, probably thanks to the noticeablility from that launch.


----------



## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

Apart from BookBub boosts, audiobook has generated the best recent increases in revenue. I paid upfront $275 PFH, and although getting the new lower 40% royalty, earned out after 10 days. I was dreading WS, but reading this thread indicates I should welcome it when/if it comes, especially since sales are now cooling.

The only bad thing so far about entry into audio is that Amazon, as opposed to Audible and Apple, listed me under only one category. After countless exasperating calls and emails to ACX, Audible and Amazon, I finally got Author Central to intervene and get the second cat added. But by then I had missed out on the 30-day new releases list. The problem starts with ACX and its policy of allowing you to pick only one category.


----------



## hardnutt (Nov 19, 2010)

Thank you, Chris, for telling us about audio books. It's certainly something I'm considering, so it's useful to have the info bookmarked here. I've also bought the book you recommended so I have everything to hand when I'm ready.

My free first in series is regularly listed as in the top 100 in up to nine sub- (or sub/sub) categories in mystery, so here's hoping something similar will happen with the audio edition.

Very helpful post.


----------



## Small Town Writer (Jun 11, 2014)

How would you go about finding an audio publisher to sell your rights to? And is there an end to that contract so your rights will revert back to you at some point? Does that depend on the contract?


----------



## Edward Giordano (Dec 20, 2014)

David Neth said:


> How would you go about finding an audio publisher to sell your rights to? And is there an end to that contract so your rights will revert back to you at some point? Does that depend on the contract?


I believe according to the ACX contract, audio rights revert back to you after 7 years.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

David Neth said:


> How would you go about finding an audio publisher to sell your rights to? And is there an end to that contract so your rights will revert back to you at some point? Does that depend on the contract?


It's for a set term. Most people I know who sold their rights did it through their agents. I did it directly with Audible, because I already had books in one series selling well there and had a contact in ACX who talked to Audible Studios.

I did run my contract by my agent, but she told me that they tended to be fairly standard, that it all looked fair, and that I didn't need her to negotiate and take 15%. (Which was pretty great of her.)

An audio publishing contract tends to include an advance, a set percentage (which will, of course, be considerably lower than the royalty you get via ACX--but in the case of Audible, you have Audible pushing your book, which is huge), and an option on future books in the series, if any (which I believe is negotiable depending on how big a star you are. I was happy to give them the option.)

That's what I know, though I'm no expert.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Why people sell rights: The cost of doing your own,  the time commitment required, speed to market, and the marketing power of an audio publisher. In my case, it's my hope that the Audible Studios and Amazon Publishing series (my 2 others) will increase visibility and sales of my ACX series, and that the popularity of my ACX series will also boost the other two. Win-win, I hope.

(As far as control, which some people have said is an issue: I got my first-choice narrator, though that wasn't guaranteed, and I was able to send the same kind of character notes I normally do. I haven't heard the first book yet, which is of course a bit nerve-wracking, but since I know who the narrator is and the work she does, I'm not TOO worried.)


----------



## JeffreyKafer (May 22, 2011)

Edwyth said:


> I believe according to the ACX contract, audio rights revert back to you after 7 years.


He's not asking about ACX, he's asking about a traditional publisher. (And the rights don't "revert back", since you never actually lose those rights on ACX.)


----------



## susan_illene (Aug 10, 2014)

David Neth said:


> How would you go about finding an audio publisher to sell your rights to? And is there an end to that contract so your rights will revert back to you at some point? Does that depend on the contract?


In my case, the audio publisher approached me with an offer via email. I don't have an agent so I negotiated the deal myself using the lawyer from Passive Voice to help with legal jargon. The terms aren't nearly as onerous as when you use a NY publisher so it's not too difficult and you can negotiate length of contract. My audio publisher has been easy to work with and responds in a timely manner. The best part is they're able to get all my books (5 total if you don't count shorts) out in less than three months which keeps me from hitting the 30 day cliff for a while. It also makes the readers happy because they don't have to wait long for the next book.

I have heard if your ebooks are selling high enough you could approach them instead, but I don't know of anyone who has done it. That might be something worth looking into for those who'd rather not handle audio themselves.


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

David Neth said:


> How would you go about finding an audio publisher to sell your rights to? And is there an end to that contract so your rights will revert back to you at some point? Does that depend on the contract?


I publish audiobooks. Occasionally. But a "big" company like Tantor can do your catalog justice if you are doing well.

So the first thing I'd say is, put your books in your signature.

On the rights thing, this gets confusing. So here's how I approach it (and I'm not a lawyer, plus this is only for the U.S.). When you created your book, your claim of copyright also protects your right to make derivative works. The audio book is a derivative work. That is what you are licensing, just as you would license the right to make a translation. And your license can be either exclusive to the licensee, or non-exclusive, or time-limited, or a combination. When the licensee creates the actual sound recording, that should have a SEPARATE copyright. That is a sound recording copyright which only covers that particular recording. It doesn't cover the book, only that particular recording of that narrator. There are lots of different types of copyright.

For example, David licenses the audio rights to Bob's audiobooks, on a five year exclusive contract. Bob's audiobooks then produces the book, will hire the narrator, and will own the sound recording copyright. David cannot go and offer the book to anyone else for that five year period. But after the five years are up, Dave can go and offer another license to someone else. Bob's audiobook never loses the copyright (except through the natural course of time) on their sound recording, so they are always entitled to sell that particular recording.

That's just one example arrangement of licensing terms.

There are two other licensing categories that are somewhat problematic. Sync licensing is licensing the recording in terms with use in a film or video. Generally that's not really an option so typically that will be excluded. The one that is more difficult is broadcast licensing, particularly digital broadcasting, or streaming. SoundExchange is the agency equivalent of ASCAP or BMI for collection for non-interactive streaming music services, which can include spoken word. Under the music model, there is a mandatory split between the rights holder (the licensee) and the "featured artist." That's different from the broadcast model where the artist gets nothing (in the US). Music is also covered differently when it is part of a dramatic performance vs. non-dramatic.

The confusion I have with the ACX royalty share contract is who owns the sound recording copyright after the seven year term is up. The seven year term just means that the distribution is exclusive to ACX/Audible. So for those of you who have done the royalty split, did you or your narrator file a sound recording copyright? Or did no one.

http://copyright.gov/circs/circ56.pdf

(now the self-promo part - here's a sample track from a production we did last year - 24 tracks on this one!)

https://soundcloud.com/mondello-publishing/dr-moreau-audiobook-act1-scene2-lines176-228-final


----------



## JeffreyKafer (May 22, 2011)

555aaa said:


> The confusion I have with the ACX royalty share contract is who owns the sound recording copyright after the seven year term is up. The seven year term just means that the distribution is exclusive to ACX/Audible. So for those of you who have done the royalty split, did you or your narrator file a sound recording copyright? Or did no one.


The production copyright is owned by the author (or the Rights Holder) at the beginning of the contract, as soon as the project is accepted and published. The narrator effectively transfers copyright, per the contract at ACX. So if you are in a royalty-share deal, after the 7 years is up, you could de-list the book, then reupload it as a DIY project and get all the 40% royalties. You'd be royally screwing over your narrator, but it's certainly possible.

(and there's no reason to "file" a sound copyright. For the last 30 years, the creator has had legal protection as soon as the work is created.)


----------



## 555aaa (Jan 28, 2014)

ACX never owns the sound recording copyright anymore than iTunes owns the music copyright of its artists and labels. They are just another licensee.  Same case with licensed content within your work; you as the publisher could easily have licensed content (for example other sound recordings, music, or other content) and in the contract it says you are responsible for all that. Clause 15 in the contract clarifies this:

"As between you and Audible, except for the distribution rights you grant to Audible in this Agreement, you retain all right, title, and interest in and to the Book and the Audiobook, including the copyright in the Book and the copyright in the sound recording for the Audiobook. All rights in the Book not granted in this Agreement to Audible are expressly reserved by you."

So I was wrong. The "you" is the sound recording copyright holder. "You" is the person doing the book posting agreement (the account holder).


----------



## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks Chris and all for the thread and the input. I'm trying to navigate the royalty split avenue with one of my titles and all of this is extremely helpful. Dan


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm learning a lot as well. I never considered selling the rights. I'd love to have a title picked up by Audible Studios.


----------



## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

I have a question for the group about what they would think of a barter deal to sweeten the royalty share?

I am looking to start narrating professionally, maybe as early as this summer. And, of course, I am a writer.  I was thinking about how much time I spend on, well, pretty much every stage of the process.  I'd be curious if other writers would be interested in bartering beta reading or ebook formatting in return for royalty share narration on a slower selling book.

I could imagine that there might be other things people need.  A cover for a novella read?  Who knows. (The exchange would obviously depend on the participants.)

Camille


----------



## J.A. Cipriano (May 27, 2014)

Okay... So I read this post yesterday and was like Audio, eh? I remember looking through ACX a while back and looking through that book you mentioned Chris and feeling overwhelmed. 

This was the same feeling I had back in 2011 when I formatted my book for kindle and then got overwhelmed and put it in a drawer for 4 years. Clearly a wise decision >.<

So I decided to put on my big boy pants and look around acx again. I was surprised at how easy it was. Almost as a lark I put up my first book for auditions and had two auditions within a couple hours. Both of which were amazing...

I haven't moved much farther in the process, but I sort of wanted to point out that it was way less difficult and scary than I thought it would be, and oh my god listening to my words in audio format was just crazy.

Thanks again.


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Awesome! Glad to hear the thread was useful to someone.


----------



## Censored (Oct 31, 2014)

I posted book 1 of my crime thriller to ACX last night. We'll see where this goes. Congrats on your success with it, Chris.


----------



## Z. Rider (Aug 15, 2014)

I should be submitting my audiobook for review tonight after my narrator makes one final small change. I'm looking forward to having this project done, live on the site in a few weeks, and hopefully getting some sales. Chris, Mark, and Rosalind have me excited about the prospect of audio! (Though I hired my narrator _right before_ that thread a few months back about how audio income had dropped like a rock... I just crossed my fingers and hoped it would all shake out down the road. Still have them crossed.)


----------



## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

As if going to ebook school wasn't hard enough, just over a year ago. Now, I'm back in class and learning the same thing. That I clearly didn't understand demand. When I published my first book through CreateSpace, I included it in something called Kindle, pretty much as an afterthought. I read paperbacks and assumed everyone else did. Big wake up call.

Now, I'm just entering the audiobook field and finding the same thing. Whey the heck didn't I do this from the start? Thanks for the insight's, Chris and Mark. Both here and elsewhere.


----------



## KL_Phelps (Nov 7, 2013)

interesting, thanks for the info


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> As if going to ebook school wasn't hard enough, just over a year ago. Now, I'm back in class and learning the same thing. That I clearly didn't understand demand. When I published my first book through CreateSpace, I included it in something called Kindle, pretty much as an afterthought. I read paperbacks and assumed everyone else did. Big wake up call.
> 
> Now, I'm just entering the audiobook field and finding the same thing. Whey the heck didn't I do this from the start? Thanks for the insight's, Chris and Mark. Both here and elsewhere.


 

The moment your book goes live on Audible, copy the url and make a post looking for reviews at the following sites:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group_folder/110451?group_id=596
https://www.facebook.com/groups/freeaudiobookgiveways
https://www.facebook.com/groups/freeaudible/

Ask for an email address, use your free promo codes to buy your book yourself, and use Audible's gift system to send the book to the reviewers. Reviews are super important for audio, more than ebook reviews. Ask that they copy/paste the review on Audible as well as Amazon. They will often do this for you, and also on Goodreads if you're lucky. Don't be afraid to give audio away. It's important to have at least a handful on Audible.


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Good tip, Mark. 

Wayne, I'm glad to see you taking the audio plunge. I have a feeling your books will do amazingly well. My third will be coming out in late April, and the first two are still selling like crazy.


----------



## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks, Mark. You've been a wealth of information and inspiration. 

Nick has finished the first read through of my book, making notes. He emailed me last night with several dozen questions on character voices and word pronunciations. We went back and forth several times, each time finding new places we've both visited in the Caribbean. I knew I made the right choice. He's going to have start recording today and should have the first fifteen minutes to me in a few days and finish the project well ahead of schedule.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Thanks, Mark. You've been a wealth of information and inspiration.
> 
> Nick has finished the first read through of my book, making notes. He emailed me last night with several dozen questions on character voices and word pronunciations. We went back and forth several times, each time finding new places we've both visited in the Caribbean. I knew I made the right choice. He's going to have start recording today and should have the first fifteen minutes to me in a few days and finish the project well ahead of schedule.


Excellent. Communication is key. Good rapport with your narrator makes audio book production a joy.


----------



## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

LOL, yeah, we went back and forth several times, until after 1 am. One word he didn't ask about was the name of a road through Okaloacoochee Slough in the northern Everglades. A lot of place names in south Florida are Creek Indian. The name of the road is Keri Road. Simple enough, right? But, it's Seminole (a band of the Creek Nation) and it's pronounced KEE-rye. In each email, we shared more about our similar paths criss-crossing el Caribe. We've probably crossed wakes a dozen times.


----------



## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

If you've got a good mailing list, try there and on social media before you ask random folks for reviews. Or if you already have an ARC team. (Not to say that Mark's advice isn't good.) I've got 40 people on my audio ARC team; mostly members of my ebook ARC team, but some audio-only. I got them all from mailing to my list and asking on Facebook (have about 25 on a wait list as well). 

Written reviews will really help you with audio, so it's worth working hard to get those reviewers. 

You should, of course, have them disclose that they got a free copy in exchange for an honest review. Audible's rules on that are the same as Amazon's.


----------



## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Rosalind James said:


> If you've got a good mailing list, try there and on social media before you ask random folks for reviews. Or if you already have an ARC team. (Not to say that Mark's advice isn't good.) I've got 40 people on my audio ARC team; mostly members of my ebook ARC team, but some audio-only. I got them all from mailing to my list and asking on Facebook (have about 25 on a wait list as well).
> 
> Written reviews will really help you with audio, so it's worth working hard to get those reviewers.
> 
> You should, of course, have them disclose that they got a free copy in exchange for an honest review. Audible's rules on that are the same as Amazon's.


Thanks, Rosalind. Yeah, a good many on my mailing list are waiting for the audiobook to come out and will be my first reviewers.


----------



## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I used my mailing list too, but I have found it's not optimal for audio. My guys all own the books already. Only a couple were interested in getting the audio again. The sites I listed have resulted in about 60% of my early reviews. Mix 'n' match is the watch word here I think. Some of each will give a good impression.


----------



## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

I was surprised by how many people from my mailing list also wanted to buy the audio. That's all I ended up doing for reviews, though I'll be using the links Mark suggested for No Mere Zombie in April. I agree that having some text reviews is critical, as are all three book scores (overall, performance and story).


----------

