# Do you expect more from readers?



## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

I started a similar topic at the other place, but I'm going to do a less pointed version.  

We are awash in readers, what with this being a Kindle board, and people are reporting reading more than ever, so...

Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate? 

Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres? 

Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate? How often are you disappointed?

I'm a snob. When I meet someone and discover that they like to read my opinion of the person immediately goes up. I'm only disappointed when I discover that the person only reads books with pictures.

Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?

Not unless the reader's taste is very limited. (Only books with pictures, for example.)

Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?

I view posting in forums on the same level as cocktail party conversation after everyone has had a few cocktails. Some of the posters that I always find entertaining are not authors and I've read several very good books by authors whose posts are boring or completely self-centered.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks, Jeff.

I'm catching heck for this topic over on Amazon. 

If anyone here thinks it's inappropriate, that was not my intent. If a mod finds it out-of-line, and wants it gone, I'll understand. Sometimes my curiosity and belief that people can discuss issues civilly gets the better of me and I take it too far.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Michelle,

I'm obviously not a mod here, but your topic seems perfectly reasonable to me.

As for Amazon's forums, I've almost stopped posting there because there always seems to be someone that wants to take exception to what someone else has said. Trying to analyze every word to see if anyone might misinterpret it is too much effort.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Michelle...it's a perfectly fine topic and good questions. I haven't had enough cocktails at the party to come up with an answer yet.  

L


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## marianneg (Nov 4, 2008)

Interesting questions.



MichelleR said:


> Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?


Not really. Although, like Jeff said, it does kind of depend on _what_ they read. If I know someone has read a lot of classics or a wide variety of non-fiction, for instance, then I would probably expect more of them.



MichelleR said:


> Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?


Yes. I'm a total Judgy McJudgerson, at least in the privacy of my own head. Not that people can't overcome this with me, but I do tend to judge people by what they are reading.



MichelleR said:


> Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?


Again, yes. If someone can't articulate a coherent thought on a message board, I don't really expect their book to be much better. I will forgive the occasional typo and looser grammar, but I do form judgments pretty quickly about someone's grasp and use of the English language, and, if I don't like what I read here, I'll probably pass on the book.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

I accept typos, because I do it all the time. I also accept that people can be really smart and either bad typists or just be wired in ways where spelling is not a strength. There does come a point where I still become judgmental, but that has more to do with a perception of effort than skill. I find it insulting when people don't make an effort to communicate, and I think that comes through in a different way than dyslexia or what have you.

With writers, I expect them to make an extra effort, I won't lie. Not perfection, but some wit, intelligence, an occasional good line. If a post doesn't impress me, I'm not making the purchase, no matter how many times I see the book mentioned. I might pay for many services from people who are unskilled with words, but storytelling services are not included in that, anymore than I would hire a swim instructor who sinks like a stone.


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## durphy (Nov 5, 2008)

Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?

I never thought about this before Kindleboards, but I find people who enjoy reading have a lot in common. I think curiosity is inherent. 

Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?

The only one I've thought about is Sci Fi. Its fans seem to be highly intelligent and understand complex ideas.

Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?

Authors' post don't influence me. To me, post don't reflect whether someone is a good storyteller. I will always give their book a chance. The only thing that brings me up short in reading a new book is poor editing. In other words, grammar and punctuation will pull me right out of a story. But writers improve with writing, so I'll give them another chance and another one after that.


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## WalterK (Mar 2, 2009)

Pretty much no to every question.  

All I really expect out of any board is some common ground based on the interest that defines the community and not much else.

- Walter.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Jeff said:


> Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate? How often are you disappointed?
> I'm a snob. When I meet someone and discover that they like to read my opinion of the person immediately goes up.


I confess to sharing that particular kind of snobbery.

Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?

Rarely, because the stereotypes I used to believe have been proven wrong often enough. However, if I see that someone _only_ reads books about Nostradamus, UFO abductions, and irreproducible miracle cures, while showing no interest in _any_ other topics, it tends to color my view of that person. (And yes, I've met someone like that.)

Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?
I'm always tempted to associate articulateness with good writing, and keep having to remind myself that 
a) even world-class authors have proofreaders and editors, and I don't know what state the original manuscript may have been in, and 
b) I like to think of myself as reasonably articulate, and yet I have no delusions that I'd be a good writer.
So, even though it goes against my gut feelings, I have to conclude that there is no correlation.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

There's more than one sub-genre of sci-fi, too. I like some forms and others talk about concepts that are way over my head. I like "softer" sci-fi, with the focus on the fiction portion, because too much science makes my brain melt.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

durphy said:


> Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?
> 
> The only one I've thought about is Sci Fi. Its fans seem to be highly intelligent and understand complex ideas.


I would be astonished if there was any correlation between intelligence and preferred genre. Some of the smartest people I know read the dumbest books. (Dumbest being 100% my opinion and indefensible intellectually.)


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Great thread, Michelle.  I like reading other perspectives on this subject.  
deb


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I would be astonished if there was any correlation between intelligence and preferred genre. Some of the smartest people I know read the dumbest books. (Dumbest being 100% my opinion and indefensible intellectually.)


I would agree with that. However, I think even intelligent people have different types of "smarts." I'm pretty verbal and enjoy language, but math and science are a struggle. That's the level I think you might be able to judge strengths, if not actual I.Q., by what someone reads. A "dumb" book might still have some interesting word play, or key into someone's social skills or interest in, oh, sociology, psychology, some -ology, and still engage the mind of an intelligent person.

Or, you know, it might be fun to shut down the brain a little.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Back in the 40's my grandfather was a court reporter, he educated himself, not through law school but passed the bar exam, and was elected by the judges of the STATE unanimously to fill a vacant federal judgeship.  His favorite reading was the Micky Spillane type of detective mystery books.  Fluff, not necessarily bodice ripping, but light reading.  I also heard many years ago that the most intelligent and broadminded people read the funny papers - so from that time I read every comic strip I could find because I thought it would help me be intelligent and broadminded.    While I don't claim to be intelligent I do think I am broadminded.

I have an acquaintance, not a friend, who will only read books that have won some kind of an award or another.  She is missing so much, but she is a book snob, and a lot of her preference of books leave me absolutely cold and I get nothing out of them.  She is not a bit more intelligent that I am, IMHO.

I have discovered new genres since joining KB and absolutely love the new adventures.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Back in the 40's my grandfather was a court reporter, he educated himself, not through law school but passed the bar exam, and was elected by the judges of the STATE unanimously to fill a vacant federal judgeship. His favorite reading was the Micky Spillane type of detective mystery books. Fluff, not necessarily bodice ripping, but light reading. I also heard many years ago that the most intelligent and broadminded people read the funny papers - so from that time I read every comic strip I could find because I thought it would help me be intelligent and broadminded. While I don't claim to be intelligent I do think I am broadminded.
> 
> I have an acquaintance, not a friend, who will only read books that have won some kind of an award or another. She is missing so much, but she is a book snob, and a lot of her preference of books leave me absolutely cold and I get nothing out of them. She is not a bit more intelligent that I am, IMHO.
> 
> I have discovered new genres since joining KB and absolutely love the new adventures.


In my time on the Amazon Boards, I've been called a book elitist and a book moron, depending on the stance of the person arguing with me. 

Both are right.

I love a literary magazine like Glimmer Train, but I also like a saucy little tale not appropriate for younguns. I was raised on horror and romance, and realize as an adult that many would turn up their noses at the books that taught me to love reading. Let's not discuss how many times I read Flowers in The Attic. Somewhere in my teens, I discovered the Brontes, Dickens, Steinbeck, and the love of a beautifully crafted short story. There's room for all of that. The person who doesn't see that stands to miss out. You can read the classics, scope the literary section, and then go find something that is just a fun roller coaster ride or that makes you laugh or cry sloppy tears, and have that all be okay.

I remember, again in my teens, Bob Talbert (a columnist for the Detroit Free Press who passed away many years ago now) posting as a sort of stream of consciousness that he'd never read Stephen King and never would. It blew me away. Why? How do you know? We all make judgments about what and whom to read, and there has to be some assumptions, but you don't know an author until you read his or her words. I wonder if Talbert had lived, if he'd seen Shawshank or Green Mile, or caught an essay by King, if he would have rethought that. King is certainly not regarded the same way he once was -- in my lifetime I've certainly seen him go from "the creepy guy who writes pulp horror" to someone who is respected as a writer. The comment from Talbert made me feel a little sad for him, for the possibility that he might be missing a good read.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?

Yes. Because I automatically expect a "reader" to be well-read. To me that means that they have been exposed to a variety of concepts and opinions not just one. I am often disappointed by a reader with tunnel vision in terms of their reading choices.

Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?

Yes. I tend to think of Harlequin readers as pom pom types (sorry I know that is probably wrong). And I tend to think of readers of deep psychological writers and philosophers as geeky people unable to hold a coherent conversation. This form of generalization is very dangerous. Fortunately I usually don't know what people limit their reading to so I have given them the benefit of the doubt.

Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?

I believe that I do. I am more open to the writers who participate as normal human beings and help out here. As compared to the ones that appear to have come here only to promote their books. While I appreciate the need to do the latter, I respond to the former. So it would appear to me that if you only market, you may have inarticulate posts. But I will give someone with badly written posts the benefit of the doubt if they are good board citizens. Make sense?

Just sayin......


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?
> 
> Yes. Because I automatically expect a "reader" to be well-read. To me that means that they have been exposed to a variety of concepts and opinions not just one. I am often disappointed by a reader with tunnel vision in terms of their reading choices.
> 
> ...


It does, indeed, make sense.

I've fallen out of the Harlequin habit. other than occasionally, but I've never been the pom-pom type. I suppose because I spend a lot of time on boards with romance novel readers and writers, I know them to be tough and intelligent (for the most part, of course) -- and surprisingly scary in a fight. 

I think Leslie hangs out in some of the same circles and can tell you!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

MichelleR said:


> It does, indeed, make sense.
> 
> I've fallen out of the Harlequin habit. other than occasionally, but I've never been the pom-pom type. I suppose because I spend a lot of time on boards with romance novel readers and writers, I know them to be tough and intelligent (for the most part, of course) -- and surprisingly scary in a fight.
> 
> I think Leslie hangs out in some of the same circles and can tell you!


Yeah, watch out. We're liable to bury you in flowers and syrupy prose. 

I didn't used to read romance because of my pre-conceived notions about the genre. Non-intellectual and all that rot.

Now I know that a good read is a good read no matter what the genre, and so-called intellectual and classic books can sometimes leave me zonked (non-intellectual word meaning catatonic).

My shelves and my K now contain romance, historical fiction, mystery, action/adventure, spy, classic, non-fiction, humor, sci-fi and I don't know what else.

Reading is pure enjoyment for me. It satisfies my thirst for knowledge; sometimes with only a small tidbit and other times with huge amounts of information.

To answer your question, Michelle, I don't expect more from readers in general. We're a diverse lot, and I'm not going to relate to everyone just because they all read. I do enjoy cultivating an interest in reading in my grandkids and their friends.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

MichelleR said:


> It does, indeed, make sense.
> 
> I've fallen out of the Harlequin habit. other than occasionally, but I've never been the pom-pom type. I suppose because I spend a lot of time on boards with romance novel readers and writers, I know them to be tough and intelligent (for the most part, of course) -- and surprisingly scary in a fight.
> 
> I think Leslie hangs out in some of the same circles and can tell you!


Oh yes, I do, and there's been some particularly nasty name calling in the fandom the past few days...

Which is one of the reasons I like it here. We can talk about books and reading and not necessarily agree on everything (or anything) but still keep it civil and interesting.

L


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## Dori (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh me oh my.  I don't do sci-fi.  But I thunk i wuz smart.  But on rethunk, I realize I do not understand complex  things like rice krispie treat recipes and such.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Dori said:


> Oh me oh my. I don't do sci-fi. But I thunk i wuz smart. But on rethunk, I realize I do not understand complex things like rice krispie treat recipes and such.


Usn's here at KB appreshiates yore kinda smarts, Dori ... rice krispie treats impairment aside.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

MichelleR said:


> Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?


Oh yeah, I'm a snob too. I smoke, so when I go out and have a cig, smokers talk. It just happens. I normally have a book with me. It's a good topic to start on. Book readers will see it and ask. I like talking to them probably because we have something in common.


MichelleR said:


> Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?


The saddest part is that I've stopped asking people what they read. I ask IF they read. So no, I don't care about genres but a person can knock my socks off if they understand a reference to John Galt.


MichelleR said:


> Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?


Yes, I hold a writer to a higher standard. Writers have to be more professional and thick-skinned, whereas readers can just let loose. A writer can't drink at this social party.

Love the topic, by the way... thanks.
Trish


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> A writer can't drink at this social party.


I must have missed that rule.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I must have missed that rule.


I wish I had... lol.


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## reemixx (May 12, 2009)

I don't expect anything from someone who reads books. I know for sure I don't read to please others, only myself. If being an avid reader allows members of a forum to be more articulate or show more intelligence when explaining something or having a conversation with others, then good on them. But I don't expect anything from them. As long az dey dunt talk like diz, and are not rude to me, then I don't care.

No, I don't associate certain personality types with certain genres. Except maybe geekiness leaning towards science fiction, as I know that's true for me. I'm a huge geek and I love me some sci-fi. But I don't expect others to be the same.

I think that if you're a writer, it's hard for others on a forum you participate in to not judge you based on your posts, at least a little bit. You have to expect that, as that's just the way the world works, and it's definitely not limited to online message boards.

Personally, though, I don't much care. No-one is perfect, not everyone has the time to go through and spell-check and perfect each post, even those who write for a living. I tend to treat message boards more like a conversation. Sometimes we slip up and say things wrong in the heat of the moment. We wouldn't be human if we didn't. Other than in extreme cases (posts without any punctuation, inability to structure a sentence in a post, or something obvious that would make you question their ability to write) I don't tend to judge the works of a writer based on their posts.

How I feel about the actual writer themselves, however, will definitely change based on what they write in their posts and how they conduct themselves. If they're more generous or helpful or more inclined to listen to what others have to say on a message board, then of course I'll think more highly of them, just like I would outside of the internet.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> I wish I had... lol.


I was being sarcastic. I don't agree with you.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Jeff said:


> I was being sarcastic. I don't agree with you.


Yeah, you know I find this a little annoying.
It seems that some authors over marketed their wares.
And it was obvious because those were their only postings.
And I am worried that ALL authors got tarandfeathered.
Authors who post here should not be gagged.
Their writing experience brings insight into the threads that they participate in.
And yes there is going to be a lot of "well in my third book I made the point that......"
That is probably how I would do it ..... If I were creative enough to have authored a book.
It seems to me that we at KB are not here to worship the technology called Kindle.
We are here to enjoy the books and authors that we love and the Kindle allows us to do so much more easily.
Just sayin....... (expects to get chastised - probably said the wrong thing in the wrong thread).


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> And yes there is going to be a lot of "well in my third book I made the point that......"
> That is probably how I would do it ..... If I were creative enough to have authored a book.
> 
> It seems to me that we at KB are not here to worship the technology called Kindle.
> We are here to enjoy the books and authors that we love and the Kindle allows us to do so much more easily.


Well, I for one think you said the RIGHT thing, Geoff. Most of us mention our personal experiences and our work in our conversations, whether those are real-life or online postings, and it would be unfair to expect authors never to mention their books except in the book bazaar. I'm sure the authors know, and we can recognize, the difference between mentioning a book because it fits into an existing (non-bazaar) thread and mentioning it solely to advertise in that same thread. I understand the reorganization is still in progress, so once the dust settles I do hope that the new set-up that the mods designed works for everyone. It sounds so promising!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> Well, I for one think you said the RIGHT thing, Geoff. Most of us mention our personal experiences and our work in our conversations, whether those are real-life or online postings, and it would be unfair to expect authors never to mention their books except in the book bazaar. I'm sure the authors know, and we can recognize, the difference between mentioning a book because it fits into an existing (non-bazaar) thread and mentioning it solely to advertise in that same thread. I understand the reorganization is still in progress, so once the dust settles I do hope that the new set-up that the mods designed works for everyone. It sounds so promising!


Thank you, Susan and Geoff.

The problem is that while most of us post responsibly, a very few never miss an opportunity, or even create their own opportunities, to mention their books. If some of us are allowed to post about our books elsewhere (and I'm not talking about general postings), you will find those few popping up all over the place.

That's just the opinion of 
*J. Worthington Foxworthy*
author of _Minnie's Household Remedies_
a free gallon of bleach with every purchase

or worse.

Hey, I like that pen name. I might just use it. Sounds like a very "worthy" name.

The bottom line is that we need to give Harvey et al time to run this shakedown cruise and see how it goes.


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## patrisha w. (Oct 28, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Well, for me perhaps not new genres because the majority of the books I buy are still science fiction or mystery. But new authors, yes indeed!
> 
> patrisha


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> That's just the opinion of
> *J. Worthington Foxworthy*
> author of _Minnie's Household Remedies_
> a free gallon of bleach with every purchase


LOL! At least that would be a fun signature line.

(Actually, most people's smaller-font signature lines go right past me anyway, since I have a tiny screen and I can't read the correspondingly tiny type. I guess that allows me to miss some of the advertising -- but I also miss some of the fun stuff.)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> LOL! At least that would be a fun signature line.
> 
> (Actually, most people's smaller-font signature lines go right past me anyway, since I have a tiny screen and I can't read the correspondingly tiny type. I guess that allows me to miss some of the advertising -- but I also miss some of the fun stuff.)


My siggy advertises our Outlander Book Klub (shameless promotion for our Klub); with an attention getting banner made by our own Mike Hicks (kreelanwarrior).


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Mike Hicks?  Kreelan Warrior?  That makes me think of a phrase, In Her Name?  hmmmm?

Shameless Dona shameless Dona naughty naughty

sorry couldn't help it


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> I'm sure the authors know, and we can recognize, the difference between mentioning a book because it fits into an existing (non-bazaar) thread and mentioning it solely to advertise in that same thread.


I can't walk that line drunk. And since many people absolutely cannot recognize my sense of humor, especially online, I walk two lines. Ever walk a line drunk?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Mike Hicks? Kreelan Warrior? That makes me think of a phrase, In Her Name? hmmmm?
> 
> Shameless Dona shameless Dona naughty naughty
> 
> sorry couldn't help it


Don't turn blue on us, now.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> I can't walk that line drunk. And since many people absolutely cannot recognize my sense of humor, especially online, I walk two lines. Ever walk a line drunk?


I don't even _know _a line drunk.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> I don't even _know _a line drunk.


Sure ya do! It's the line at the bar for the next round! Woohoo!


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> Sure ya do! It's the line at the bar for the next round! Woohoo!


New movie title!! Line Drunk Walking


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## EllenR (Mar 31, 2009)

LOL You guys never fail to crack me up.

OK back to Michelle's questions:

*Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?*

Yes, I am afraid that I do think readers are more intelligent. It is sad to me because my husband is NOT a reader. He's a great husband, but does that mean I think he's less intelligent?? Oh, I despise myself now for my prejudice against those who do not read for pleasure.  Just kidding. I probably did think this until my DH. He's very intelligent but just not into reading.

In truth, I have noticed throughout my life that people who are avid readers tend to be more articulate at the very least. Not necessarily more logical but at least interesting and conversant in some area. Those who read the most varied array of books are the most conversant and articulate, in my opinion. I certainly enjoy talking to people who read even if we don't enjoy the same books.

*Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?*

No. I used to until I found out I love some books (paranormal romance) and authors (J.D. Robb/Nora Roberts) to which I had previously turned up my nose in disdain.

*Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions?*

No. I judge everyone by the quality of their posts. 

Writer's posts have no impact on my purchase decisions. Posts by other readers have a HUGE impact on my purchase decision. I will purchase a book mentioned on here if other Kindleboarders say good things, even if I would not otherwise buy it. Most of the time, that pays off for me. Occasionally I hate the book but I don't regret the purchase. I like to try new things.

Great topic Michelle. Not sure why you would get flamed for it elsewhere but that's why I generally stay here!

EllenR


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

EllenR,
I can understand you DH issues.  I have friends that apparently don't "read".
Fortuneately for me my Sweet Wife does.
However, in my bias, there is reading and there is reading.
For instance one who only ever reads novels, ever, I worry about. Nice exposture to imagination.
But.....
How about reading some of the Federalist Papers to understand what the founding fathers were talking about that helps when reading John Adams or Gone For a Soldier (by our own Jeff Hepple).
Reading at least some portions of things like the Histories of Heroditus authenticates things like The 300.
Even reading historically relevant novels like Tolstoy and Doestevsky help one better to understand the Russion soul when reading Doctor Zhivago. And One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch is much clearer if you have some understanding of Russion life, politics, history and "thinking".
See it all ties in together.
Just sayin......


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

I appreciate when someone is well-rounded in their reading, while understanding that -- with so many topics and genres -- nobody can truly be a jack of all trades these days. 

Not to get political, but it also concerns me when people only get their opinions from one source, and a biased source at that. That's not to bash Fox or MSNBC, but I think that if either is your only source, that you can't speak with authority, because you're hanging out with friends who reinforce already held beliefs. Both sources have value, but neither alone is enough.  Just like the more places you get your news, the more complete your picture, the more topics you read on or genres you read in, the more you're able to advance your mind or world. Truly, the whole being more than the sum of its parts.


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## EllenR (Mar 31, 2009)

Geoff and Michelle, good points both. After all, how boring it would be to only enjoy one kind of food. 

Geoff, I do understand your point. However, I do think that reading a variety of fiction can also lend itself to opening one's mind to different ideas/cultures/histories and what have you. Just as some people prefer to read only nonfiction some others prefer only one to read fiction. I personally prefer fiction but do read nonfiction as well. I'm have to admit that I have not gotten into the classics since high school. I really think that high school destroys the joy of reading for many people including my own son. I have high hopes that he will enjoy it again once he reads purely for pleasure or enlightenment rather than education. 

I think I might just get him a copy of The Federalist Papers to read over the summer. He's finishing AP US History (which he did not excel in) but I think that he might get quite a lot out of that type of reading.  I'm also thinking he might enjoy the Histories of Herodotus. Thanks for bringing those up!

EllenR


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> EllenR,
> I can understand you DH issues. I have friends that apparently don't "read".
> Fortuneately for me my Sweet Wife does.
> However, in my bias, there is reading and there is reading.
> ...


It has always been my habit to research the background of any historical novels or historical fiction that I read. It's easier, now, with the Internet, but I never had a problem with reading the encyclopedia. If the encyclopedia didn't have enough information, I would look for books that did.

I've read Doctor Zhivago and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> A writer can't drink at this social party.


That's because I just finished off the last beer in the cooler...


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Mike Hicks? Kreelan Warrior? That makes me think of a phrase, In Her Name? hmmmm?
> 
> Shameless Dona shameless Dona naughty naughty
> 
> sorry couldn't help it


Aww! I think you need a new hat, Anju! 










But getting back to the matter at hand:

*Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate?*

As a general rule, I believe that people who read a lot tend to be more articulate, and I believe that people who happen to be more intelligent tend to read more. But I don't necessarily think they're going to be more logical, as I think that's governed by a separate set of personality traits (a person can be quite articulate and intelligent, but completely illogical!).

*Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres?*

No, not really. Some people tend to enjoy certain genres more, but I've never really thought of it in terms of there being an association with their personality.

*Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions? *

Oh, boy, I'm in trouble on this one! LOL!! My own writing in my posts is pretty much just what I'd say verbally, but it's completely different than the way I write at work, for example (here I at least normally use capitalization - at work I don't bother anymore!).


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Aww! I think you need a new hat, Anju!


You gave Dona my hat?


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> You gave Dona my hat?


Only because I found you this one:


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Only because I found you this one:


Not a bad save. Been married for a while?


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Not a bad save. Been married for a while?


Yes, but despite Jan's best efforts, the Stupid Guy Gene periodically takes control...


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

kreelanwarrior said:


> Yes, but despite Jan's best efforts, the Stupid Guy Gene periodically takes control...


That's okay. It gives women something to do with their spare time.


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## Michael R. Hicks (Oct 29, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> That's okay. It gives women something to do with their spare time.


<Mike raises periscope to make sure Gertie isn't in striking range...>.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

I was afraid to say anything!  Didn't want to get Gertie's ire up    after all she has a walnut wand


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> Yes, I hold a writer to a higher standard. Writers have to be more professional and thick-skinned, whereas readers can just let loose. A writer can't drink at this social party.
> 
> Trish


Not trying to be argumentative, just wanting to elaborate on my opinion......I don't think that authors should have to be any different in a "social" environment than anyone else. I would expect an author might stay sober at a book-signing of his/her own book. Good public relations. But it would be the author's decision. I might expect a James Joyce (have I got the right author) to be inebriated all the time socially. And I might be disappointed if he were not. But that is my problem.
To be specific to our topic: I don't expect an author to create better posts than anyone else does just because they write for a living. Do we ask the journalists that may be here to identify themselves and be held accountable. I think (notice this is my opinion) that if an author proves to be a boor (same as if I do) then we will not patronize his/her work perhaps and may shun him/her by ingoring his/her posts. 
I hope I expanded my opinion rather than making it more murky.....but then I certainly don't make my living writing.
Just sayin......


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

_*Do you expect readers to be more logical/intelligent/articulate? *_
Not at all; there are some truly stupid people out there who love to read; I encounter them just about every time I wander into Border's, and it seems like I'm a magnet for these people, as they tend to sit right by me in the cafe. Flip that over; there are some incredibly smart people who only read because they have to. These people may not fall into the "book smart" category, but they _know stuff_ and I frequently feel inadequate in their presence.

*Do you associate certain personality types with certain genres? *
I'm certainly not surprised when the geeky/nerdy types have their noses buried in science fiction or fantasy (this would include the Spouse Thingy, who was geeky long before geeky was...geeky.) It does tend to surprise me to find some of the people he works with--people so smart they practically drain other peoples' brain cells by simply looking at them--buried in some pretty trashy fiction. I suppose I've learned along the way that people will gravitate towards whatever works best as an escape for them, my stereotypes be damned.

_*Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions? *_

No, no, and no. Look, *I* don't want to be judged by a differing standard in posting simply because of what I do to pay the mortgage. Posting in a virtual social situation is not the same as writing for print. When I write for print (or Kindle) I get tons of passes over the things that I've vomited out of my brain; I get time to edit, to correct, to revise... Here, I just post, the same as anyone else. I will dangle my participles and I will sometimes mix tenses. I'm not here as a writer--I'm here as a Kindle fan.

For those same reasons, I don't assume that someone who is articulate--or not--is any sort of fiction writer. The guy who sits over there in the corner of the forum twitching and drooling, stuttering because he's just not terribly social--he might be a fantastic writer. And the guy pointing his finger and laughing at the drooling stutterer, who is very much the social butterfly and quite talented in posting--he might not be able to piece together readable fiction. Unless you take the time to check someone's work, you simply don't know...


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> I don't think that authors should have to be any different in a "social" environment than anyone else. I would expect an author might stay sober at a book-signing of his/her own book. Good public relations. But it would be the author's decision. I might expect a James Joyce (have I got the right author) to be inebriated all the time socially. And I might be disappointed if he were not. But that is my problem.
> To be specific to our topic: I don't expect an author to create better posts than anyone else does just because they write for a living. Do we ask the journalists that may be here to identify themselves and be held accountable. I think (notice this is my opinion) that if an author proves to be a boor (same as if I do) then we will not patronize his/her work perhaps and may shun him/her by ingoring his/her posts.
> I hope I expanded my opinion rather than making it more murky.....but then I certainly don't make my living writing.
> Just sayin......





Thumper said:


> _*Do you judge the writers here by their posts or hold their posts up to a higher standard? Do you associate articulate posts with being a better fiction writer? Does the perceived quality of posts affect buying decisions? *_
> 
> No, no, and no. Look, *I* don't want to be judged by a differing standard in posting simply because of what I do to pay the mortgage. Posting in a virtual social situation is not the same as writing for print. When I write for print (or Kindle) I get tons of passes over the things that I've vomited out of my brain; I get time to edit, to correct, to revise... Here, I just post, the same as anyone else. I will dangle my participles and I will sometimes mix tenses. I'm not here as a writer--I'm here as a Kindle fan.


Both good points. As an author, I felt I would be judged by readers if I let loose. So I was careful in my posts to be an image they would expect of an author of a psychic romance. I'm not comfortable revealing much more, but that's my choice and my opinion (for now).

You two say that won't happen here... I don't trust that yet, but give me time. I delurked early because I had a book to post (now two). Otherwise, I'd have been that babbling idiot in the corner.

I will say that I am opening up in the Author Chat thread...

Trish


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> I was careful in my posts to be an image they would expect of an author of a psychic romance.


I feel totally out of it (not that that's altogether uncommon). I'm not even sure what a psychic romance IS, let alone what to expect of an author of one.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't know -- I can't lie and say I don't judge writers by their posts and base buying decisions on that. I've always been upfront about that. I don't expect perfection, that would be absurd, but I expect skill with words to show through or something that would suggest an interesting narrative voice. 

I don't think it's the same as randomly judging someone on their job, as this is more pertinent than that. It speaks directly to the skill needed for me to spend money and invest time. I don't judge, I dunno, jugglers unless I was in the market for a juggler, and then I might not hire him if he dropped stuff. For me, it's not about being a social butterfly or the life of the party, but about not being off-putting when using language -- the main tool of the trade. It's not about a high post count, or a extroverted personality, but about a since of trust that some people earn. 

It's not about being judged by a differing standard when posting, but about your posts coming into play when it comes time for me to decide whether or not to pay to read more words. What made me purchase books from both of you -- Thumper and vwkitten -- is because I do like your posting styles, and feel comfortable spending time with you on my own dime. You have exactly the skills that do impress me.


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