# Hannah Ford seems to have broken all the rules and won



## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

Have you guys noticed Hannah Ford's new series, What He Wants

First released on January 1st, she's now at Book 7, and all of them are hovering around the #200 mark on Amazon. Crazy.

Especially when you consider each installment is only about 10k words, she has no author bio, picture, social media, website, mailing list, or even release dates.

I can't find any promotions she might have done.

All this seems to contravene everything I've learned about how to be successful. Maybe her books are the rare exception that literally sell themselves with no help?

_Edited to remove link; see Forum Decorum or PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Not my genre so what do I know, but only 28 pages?!

Though if erotica is your thing, the fairly explicit excerpt in the blurb tells you exactly what you're getting. The blurb is probably selling the first book and then it must be written well enough that people continue....


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

Welcome to Kindle Unlimited. Kudos to her for milking a broken system. Just my opinion.


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## Kenneth Rosenberg (Dec 3, 2010)

Interesting.  Well, she has put out a series, with installments released quickly, in a popular genre, with branded covers that tie them all together.  Those seem to be the main ingredients for success these days.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2015)

It's the genre. And fast releases. Plenty of people will do the same as her and fail. But out of each new batch there will be a winner, which is what she is. Some of her runners up as well will still be making lots of money though haven't hit crazy time yet. Others will just make okay money.

This is all providing that they can write and know the business.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

She released two series almost simultaneously. 

I'm not sure what else to say. I find the most interesting thing to be that she seems to have stopped releasing. Weird. 

I'm sure it's a pen name of another successful author. It's very possible that they used their established mailing list to launch this pen name.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2015)

Another author who is writing faster and shorter and pumping them out recently, ranked 41 overall

http://www.amazon.com/Olivia-Hawthorne/e/B00U254DAG/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1427472233&sr=1-1


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

She actually *does* have an author page. http://www.amazon.com/Hannah-Ford/e/B00TEMQK54/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1427472065&sr=1-2-ent

And there's quite a bit of activity on her message board at the bottom. A lot more than I usually see. Apparently she has created something that a lot of readers love.


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

Briteka said:


> She actually *does* have an author page. http://www.amazon.com/Hannah-Ford/e/B00TEMQK54/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1427472065&sr=1-2-ent
> 
> And there's quite a bit of activity on her message board at the bottom. A lot more than I usually see. Apparently she has created something that a lot of readers love.


The page is there, but note this message:

Are You an Author?
Help us improve our Author Pages by updating your bibliography and submitting a new or current image and biography.

I think that means she's not logged in and done anything with it.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Nine books released in a couple months, good covers, great branding, good reviews; looks like they're doing something right. Maybe the author doesn't spend much time on kboards.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2015)

pwtucker said:


> The page is there, but note this message:
> 
> Are You an Author?
> Help us improve our Author Pages by updating your bibliography and submitting a new or current image and biography.
> ...


That exact same message is on your author page, Phil.


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

ShaneJeffery said:


> That exact same message is on your author page, Phil.


Oh hey! You're right. So much for my low tech sleuthing.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Jim Johnson said:


> Nine books released in a couple months, good covers, great branding, good reviews; looks like they're doing something right. Maybe the author doesn't spend much time on kboards.


Very likely she is one of us 
So many people have other pen names that they don't use here and lots of authors here don't even share their main name.
If you have several pen names you only bother setting up author pages for one or two, after all you are only allowed three max anyway (author pages, not pen names, you can have as many pen names as you like).


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## D-C (Jan 13, 2014)

I wish I could emulate her technique, but I tried and my 'short story' turned into a novel  A short novel. But a novel, all the same.


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## mel p (Oct 22, 2014)

I read the 3 customer discussions under her author page and it does not look like the author has ever responded or participated in these discussions. Almost all comments are begging her for a release schedule, so she must obviously be doing something WRITE (pun intended). 
I agree with the previous posts, I would bet a lot of money that this is a KBoarder, who is very successful in Kindle Unlimited and writes very fast--with several pen names. Surprisingly, that description still fits MANY of our fellow authors on this site! But I have my own pick!


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Good for her (or him)!


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## Greg Dragon (Jun 10, 2014)

SevenDays said:


> Good for her (or him)!


Exactly.


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## DC Swain (Feb 24, 2013)

+1 on the good for her/him



Evenstar said:


> If you have several pen names you only bother setting up author pages for one or two, after all you are only allowed three max anyway (author pages, not pen names, you can have as many pen names as you like).


Every author is allowed an author page, but only 3 are available for each Author Central log in. If you need more than 3, you create a new log in for a different email address


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## devalong (Aug 28, 2014)

So glad she's doing well! Fast release with good covers and blurbs helps - I wish I could write faster but I'm slow even at the short works I attempt.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

SevenDays said:


> Good for her (or him)!


Yep, I say more power to her. Or him.


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## scottmarlowe (Apr 22, 2010)

That's quite the opener.


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## OW (Jul 9, 2014)

pwtucker said:


> Especially when you consider each installment is only about 10k words, she has no author bio, picture, social media, website, mailing list, or even release dates.
> 
> _Edited to remove link; see Forum Decorum or PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


Actually it's closer to half that number of words, but I don't think that's a problem, it proves a point I think


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

pwtucker said:


> Have you guys noticed Hannah Ford's new series, What He Wants
> 
> First released on January 1st, she's now at Book 7, and all of them are hovering around the #200 mark on Amazon. Crazy.
> 
> ...


Word-of-mouth - the only guaranteed way of successful marketing.


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## kjbryen (Jul 3, 2014)

scottmarlowe said:


> That's quite the opener.


Haha exactly what I thought!

Still, good for her (or him)!


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## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

Well, she writes alpha billionaire romance/erotica books, so I wouldn't really call that breaking the rules at all.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

katherinef said:


> Well, she writes alpha billionaire romance/erotica books, so I wouldn't really call that breaking the rules at all.


That's what I was thinking. That's a super popular and over-saturated niche.

She, or he, just seems to have written it in a way that plenty of readers enjoy her/his short stories.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Please, let's not speculate that an author had done something that many people here believe to be unethical.

Betsy


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I keep reading the thread header and wondering why Harrison Ford has got into indie publishing.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Lydniz said:


> I keep reading the thread header and wondering why Harrison Ford has got into indie publishing.


Me, too. I thought maybe it's something to do while he recovers from his recent plane accident.

Betsy


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I wanted to see how she handled series covers. Really nice branding. Very simple. 

And I didn't see her in any erotica categories. 

#127 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)

    #1 in Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > One hour (33-43 pages) > Romance
    #4 in Books > Romance > Anthologies
    #4 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Collections & Anthologies

Amazon set categories.

    Books > Romance > Anthologies
    Books > Romance > Contemporary
    Books > Romance > New Adult & College
    Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > One hour (33-43 pages) > Romance
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Collections & Anthologies
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > Contemporary
    Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Romance > New Adult & College

And here's a review.

"ok these are steamy and a fun 20-30 minute read but these are chapters, not books. So if you have kindle unlimited ok but no way would I buy these separately. I wish I had read the reviews before I started this so I would not have to wait for the next chapter. "

Ford has found her/his formula and it works up to a point. Looks like there's some backlash starting.


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## Jack Krenneck (Feb 9, 2014)

pwtucker said:


> Have you guys noticed Hannah Ford's new series, What He Wants
> 
> First released on January 1st, she's now at Book 7, and all of them are hovering around the #200 mark on Amazon. Crazy.
> 
> ...


On looking through the author's Amazon page, this was my thought process...

*Kboard rules followed: *Write in a popular category. Have a frequent release schedule. Use good covers. Use good blurbs. Have a good look inside feature.

*Kboard rules broken: *Reference another author in blurb. Include excerpt of book in blurb.

*Action: *Study rules broken by reference to bestseller lists. Bestseller lists confirm referencing other authors common. _Abandon rule. _Including excerpt of book in blurb uncommon in bestseller lists. Uncommon in any ebook. However, was once quite common in paperback format. Develop theory for why it might work. Find a way to test theory.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Let's not have a guessing game....

Betsy


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

Just looked at the excerpt. Needless to say, it's hot.  

I didn't think amazon allowed anything this graphic on their site.
Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with it; I've written my share of scenes
like this & had fun doing it, but am totally taken aback that the 'Zon 
did not censor the passage.

Because if it's okay, I'll match this in a heartbeat.

Anyone have an explanation? Feedback?

Thanks.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I am guessing it is Ann in disguise.    Just teasing.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Kirkee said:


> Just looked at the excerpt. Needless to say, it's hot.
> 
> I didn't think amazon allowed anything this graphic on their site.
> Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with it; I've written my share of scenes
> ...


You have a whole brand new world to explore. Her excerpts are rather tame. Even for 2015 romance.


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

Kirkee said:


> Just looked at the excerpt. Needless to say, it's hot.
> 
> I didn't think amazon allowed anything this graphic on their site.
> Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with it; I've written my share of scenes
> ...


There's a whole thread dedicated to writing stuff that hot and hotter, and how to get it on Amazon and not get nailed by the censors.



Briteka said:


> You have a whole brand new world to explore. Her excerpts are rather tame. Even for 2015 romance.


Exactly.


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

Briteka. 
I understand. But it's on amazon, the "family-friendly"
vendor. It was not that long ago that books were dropped into 
the dungeon (for risque covers & blurbs), & seeing this excerpt
made me go *"Whoa!"*

So then, it's perfectly acceptable. 
In that case, lemme go find a paragraph or two that will shake
the 'Zon bots up a bit.


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## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

We must visit different Amazons.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Kirkee said:


> Briteka.
> I understand. But it's on amazon, the "family-friendly"
> vendor. It was not that long ago that books were dropped into
> the dungeon (for risque covers & blurbs), & seeing this excerpt
> made me go *"Whoa!"*


Yeah, I was surprised to see the excerpt there in the description. And the first line is visible without having to scroll down ...


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

As others have said, she's doing everything right from where I'm sitting.
Great Blurb, Great Hook, Great Cover Branding, More than 1 release, low entry price points, popular genre...
She's actually not doing anything wrong that I see.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Amazon is going through an explicit phase right now. The Pornapocalypse seems to be over... until they get some bad press again, of course.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Isn't every other new NA release a Stepbrother thing now?  That was banned not long ago.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Yes. I've re-uploaded all my PI, and it still sells great.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Kirkee said:


> Just looked at the excerpt. Needless to say, it's hot.
> 
> I didn't think amazon allowed anything this graphic on their site.
> Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with it; I've written my share of scenes
> ...


Since when can you have naughty words in the blurb?

Seems like this author honed in an a popular, specific niche and is taking advantage of KU. The writing isn't my cup of tea, but to each his own.


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

You gotta admit some of the titles are funny:

*Me & the Steps*; *Menage With the Steps*; 
*Steps & the Sitter; Livin' it up With...You Guessed it: the Steps. *

Hilarious. How many different ways can you squeeze
*Steps* into a title? I shouldn't ask, huh?

As far as Hanna Ford is concerned: Good for her. She's laughing all
the way to the bank. Ka-ching. 

Got one last question: why does it always have to be a billionaire?
Are billionaires supposed to be better in bed or something? Is that it?

Ah, wait. The authority figure; in control. Self-contained. Solvent. Needs
no one. But maybe the woman in the story will change all that.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

Please Note: These are all theories and conjecture. Treat them as such.

1) Very interesting. Nice to see someone get this sort of success. a bit conflicted it's done by chopping a book into tiny parts (which is really annoying and I'm not even sure if it's right).

2) Consider what kind of reading Kindle Unlimited actually encourages - reading in spurts, reading to feel you got your money back (the KU subscription), reading in breaks, wanting to quickly make a decision and then move on to another book if the book doesn't catch your reading.

Something like what Hannah Ford did works very well for that.

3) Of all the Billionaire Romance covers, the first 5 covers look the most likely that the man on the cover could actually be a Billionaire i.e. very professional, face not clear, not ridiculously good looking.

Most other Billionaire romances have someone who looks like he was so good looking he never even had to finish high school or do a job.

4) All the covers make it absolutely clear they're in the same series (first 5-6). Might be the clearest of any series on Amazon, it's that clear.

5) Is it OK to share reviews? Let me know if it isn't. Consider this review:

I could have given this series 5* except it has been cut into so many parts. I would never have begun this broken apart book if it were not on Kindle Unlimited. When it ends, who knows It could have been a very good book if it didn't leave the reader so frustrated. TO THE AUTHOR: are you so money hungry that you need to charge a dollar for every 25 pages!

The breakdown seems simple

a) A very good book.
b) On Kindle Unlimited so readers not only are OK getting something like this ($1 per chapter), they actually like it. At some level they must feel they pay nothing for something that other readers pay $1 per chapter.
c) OK with having readers frustrated and waiting for the next installment. Which is shown in tests to INCREASE satisfaction when the product actually arrives. The reason tech companies do 'leaks' of their products beforehand.
d) Get everything right. This is by far the hardest. Covers, where the break up the book, etc.

6) If this is an author who's been doing a lot of serials and experimenting and figuring out what works best, she (the covers make me think it's a woman - a man wouldn't know the progress path of the covers) has figured out what the right elements are

- at what point to break up the books
- how to target kindle unlimited readers
- how to share the series books are linked
- the right time period between releases
- how much to progress the story in each installment

So we might be seeing the end results of a lot of iterations of 'Making Magical Serial Romance'.

7) I think the author side-stepped the trap of labelling it erotica or romantic erotica for a good reason. She figured out that saying it's Romantic Erotica scares away some portion.

 Why Billionaire instead of Millionaire? Millionaires are commonplace now. Billionaires just 1,300 or so worldwide.

Scarcity
Money
Power

Also, an increasing number of billionaires now are wielding power in ways they used to not in the past. Buying newspapers, starting coups (Ukraine) etc. So now it's money and power and political power.


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

Dear Hannah Ford,

If you need help counting the cash, please
do not hesitate to PM.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

ireaderreview said:


> Why Billionaire instead of Millionaire? Millionaires are commonplace now. Billionaires just 1,300 or so worldwide.


So, does that mean there can only be 1,300 billionaire romances? Pretty restricted niche if you ask me. 

I think I'll branch out with a new series. _Nancy and the Ne'er-do-wells_; _Donna and the Ditch Diggers_; _Tessa and the Truck Drivers_. Just a regular guy series. I think I'll call it ... _The Regular Guy Series_


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

Margaret, already beat you to it.  
My male lead *"Tubesteak"* in *Fifty Shades of Tinsel*
is broke, but I assure you he makes up for it in other 
ways. First volume perma-free. Not 20 pages, but 188 pages!
You tell me if it works. In fact, if any of the ladies want to PM me & offer
feedback am open to it. As women make up the majority of the readership,
I would rather prefer to hear from them, etc. I might learn something.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

This: So, does that mean there can only be 1,300 billionaire romances? Pretty restricted niche if you ask me.

Ha ha!

Yeah, very limited pool.

In fact, most of them, if put on the cover of a billionaire romance novel, would tank sales.

The only ones who are remotely OK looks wise are the ones who inherited it.

It'd be really funny to take out a series called 'My Tech Billionaire Lover' and make covers with Bezos and the Google Guys and Bill Gates, and with their shirt off and stuff. It might be a surprise hit.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

ireaderreview said:


> It'd be really funny to take out a series called 'My Tech Billionaire Lover' and make covers with Bezos and the Google Guys and Bill Gates, and with their shirt off and stuff. It might be a surprise hit.


Don't tempt me. 



Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> So, does that mean there can only be 1,300 billionaire romances? Pretty restricted niche if you ask me.
> 
> I think I'll branch out with a new series. _Nancy and the Ne'er-do-wells_; _Donna and the Ditch Diggers_; _Tessa and the Truck Drivers_. Just a regular guy series. I think I'll call it ... _The Regular Guy Series_


How about _The Average Joes_ ?


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

A race. Let's see who gets it out first. Note: I'm assuming it's OK to include slightly raunchy titles. Let me know if it's too much.

The Tech Billionaire Series - These Geeks are packing more than just pocket protectors

#1 Gates - Neither Micro, Nor Soft

#2 Bezos - Sometimes Next Day Delivery just isn't good enough. This Amazon Man delivers at midnight.

#3 Google Guys - Sometimes you're searching for The One, and find 2.

#4 Steve Jobs - You're not using it right. You're gonna get a spanking tonight.



#6 Jony Ive - A watch isn't the only thing he's going to wrap around your wrists.

#7 Mark Zuckerberg - No one can stalk you like he can.

#8 Jack Dorsey - Whispering Tweet Nothings in Your Ear


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## CJAnderson (Oct 29, 2014)

Is that you Hannah


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2015)

Hannah? 
Nope. This is Markus, Markus Stalkerberg.

I just want you to know -

Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every Tag you break
Every Friend Request you take
I'll be watching you

Every single day
Every status update
Every game you play
Every Tinder Date
I'll be watching you


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## AYClaudy (Oct 2, 2014)

ireaderreview said:


> A race. Let's see who gets it out first. Note: I'm assuming it's OK to include slightly raunchy titles. Let me know if it's too much.
> 
> The Tech Billionaire Series - These Geeks are packing more than just pocket protectors
> 
> ...


THIS! I just died. Love it!


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Kirkee said:


> Just looked at the excerpt. Needless to say, it's hot.
> 
> I didn't think amazon allowed anything this graphic on their site.
> Mind you, I'm perfectly fine with it; I've written my share of scenes
> ...


OK. Now everyone reading this is obliged to read the blurb


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## P.T. Phronk (Jun 6, 2014)

ireaderreview said:


> A race. Let's see who gets it out first. Note: I'm assuming it's OK to include slightly raunchy titles. Let me know if it's too much.
> 
> The Tech Billionaire Series - These Geeks are packing more than just pocket protectors
> 
> ...


I'll just leave this here: http://www.amazon.com/Leonard-Delaney/e/B00E86C4B0/


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

I'm curious, Jan. Did you survive the excerpt?
Did hubby have to *revive you* afterwards? 

Anyone else interested in reading the blurb...all I can say
is have a tall glass of ice water handy. Because you'll need it
to cool down afterwards.

Now, I'd like to see just how much heat I can get away with
on my 'Zon page with my sizzling excerpt (from 
*Fifty Shades of Tinsel, Vol. #1/Heartthrob)*.

Can you blame me?


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

So... curiosity got the best of me, and I bought a couple of the books. The only thing that stands out from other steamy romances is that each book is split between the male and female pov. That's interesting and something I'm going to try now that I know there's an audience for it. There is nothing else particularly unique about these books for the people wondering. They are the same as every other 50 Shades-like romance. They are better written than things coming out of the "Warrior" mill. The reason they are successful is either marketing or pure luck. Probably a combination of both.

The biggest mystery is why she stopped releasing. If I had those numbers, I'd be turning out at least three a week.


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Phronk said:


> I'll just leave this here: http://www.amazon.com/Leonard-Delaney/e/B00E86C4B0/


Oh this is amazing. I haven't been this happy since finding the cuttlefish-shifter erotica.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Kirkee said:


> I'm curious, Jan. Did you survive the excerpt?
> Did hubby have to *revive you* afterwards?
> 
> Anyone else interested in reading the blurb...all I can say
> ...


Don't do it. We don't have a cold shower installed here at kboards.


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## dianapersaud (Sep 26, 2013)

Lydniz said:


> I keep reading the thread header and wondering why Harrison Ford has got into indie publishing.


Glad I'm not the only one who saw 'Harrison Ford'


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## CDM (Apr 6, 2014)

ireaderreview said:


> A race. Let's see who gets it out first. Note: I'm assuming it's OK to include slightly raunchy titles. Let me know if it's too much.
> 
> The Tech Billionaire Series - These Geeks are packing more than just pocket protectors
> 
> ...


OMG! This is hilarious. I just about choked on my pizza. I am literally in tears!


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## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

ireaderreview said:


> A race. Let's see who gets it out first. Note: I'm assuming it's OK to include slightly raunchy titles. Let me know if it's too much.
> 
> The Tech Billionaire Series - These Geeks are packing more than just pocket protectors
> 
> ...


Ha!


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## Moist_Tissue (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm 9001% sure this author posts here.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Hmmm.... 

Hannah seems like one smart cookie. It's the same forumula that's been working for years. 

- Pick a hot genre
- Don't deviate from the genre tropes
- Write short and fast
- Write in a series

Wash - rinse - repeat

The only real twist here is that the author is taking advantage of KU very wisely. KU works great for series and Novellas. I know of people making a small fortune with it. The question is - Why haven't I been smart enough to do it?!?!?!


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

Cin, that's on the horizon: *waterproof laptops*, in case you need a cold shower
while reading steamy passages. 

Best,

Kirkee

PS

Cin, select a scene u think is hot & I'll post on the 'Zon.
You can PM me...if you feel like it, etc. Whether or not the 'Zon
will allow me to get away with it is another question...


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Briteka said:


> Yes. I've re-uploaded all my PI, and it still sells great.


I was thinking about getting back into PI since the titles I had blocked in the past aren't half as in your face as what is passing the screeening now, but how do you promote it? The naughty list won't even accept it. How can you be too naughty for the naughty list? I do have a mailing list, but since I write bdsm and menage. I'm not sure my readers would be into it. Some people are turned off by it. And no, I didn't write the baby for the billionaire menage thing under a pen name. Someone beat me to it , gosh darn it.


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## devalong (Aug 28, 2014)

Niles said:


> Completely off-topic, but this is the best thing I've read all day: "Kinky/sexy billonaire/shifter novelettes with covers too hot to show you - do not click on them if you are not allowed to by the laws that govern you."


Why thank you, .


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

Briteka said:


> So... curiosity got the best of me, and I bought a couple of the books. The only thing that stands out from other steamy romances is that each book is split between the male and female pov. That's interesting and something I'm going to try now that I know there's an audience for it.


Splitting between male and female POV has been standard in trad-published romance for approx. 25 years now. In fact, single (female) POV and first person narration were quite uncommon in the romance genre until fairly recently.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Splitting between male and female POV has been standard in trad-published romance for approx. 25 years now. In fact, single (female) POV and first person narration were quite uncommon in the romance genre until fairly recently.


I am guessing Briteka means it's first person split POV, where one book is the lady first-person POV and one book is the dude first-person POV. I did that for the first two books in my series (third is dual) and I had such a hard time with the sex scenes for the guy POV. What the heck are they thinking anyway? And what the heck does it feel like? My BF was not a helpful resource.

The scene was no hotter than what you'll find in most steamy romance nowadays. Kirkee, you need to get out more


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Crystal_ said:


> I am guessing Briteka means it's first person split POV, where one book is the lady first-person POV and one book is the dude first-person POV.


It's been done a lot since the success of "Tangled".

I'm much more astounded by the fact that this is so well-received in general. But then it is a niche I don`t understand anyway.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Crystal_ said:


> I am guessing Briteka means it's first person split POV, where one book is the lady first-person POV and one book is the dude first-person POV. I did that for the first two books in my series (third is dual) and I had such a hard time with the sex scenes for the guy POV. What the heck are they thinking anyway? And what the heck does it feel like? My BF was not a helpful resource.
> 
> The scene was no hotter than what you'll find in most steamy romance nowadays. Kirkee, you need to get out more


This book actually has dual first person POV's in each book. One chapter in her POV and one chapter in his POV. A lot of NA romance books are written in dual POV's (in one book) and it can be interesting. Sometimes it can be more interesting than just reading it from the females POV especially when the female character is quite negative or a whiner.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Briteka said:


> So... curiosity got the best of me, and I bought a couple of the books. The only thing that stands out from other steamy romances is that each book is split between the male and female pov. That's interesting and something I'm going to try now that I know there's an audience for it. There is nothing else particularly unique about these books for the people wondering. They are the same as every other 50 Shades-like romance. They are better written than things coming out of the "Warrior" mill. The reason they are successful is either marketing or pure luck. Probably a combination of both.
> 
> The biggest mystery is why she stopped releasing. If I had those numbers, I'd be turning out at least three a week.


I just read the first book. It was ok. Deborah Bladon is very good at writing short steamy (novella length) stories like this with dual POV's in each book. Deborah's books are a little longer at around 2 hours. 
If i was having so much success writing these kinds of short stories i would have carried on writing a bunch of them and put them out back to back, trilogies work great in this genre.

There are a few of these authors who write short erom's or NA shorts, with very little online presence. Claire Adams and Alycia Taylor are two more authors with similar stories and profiles


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Phronk said:


> I'll just leave this here: http://www.amazon.com/Leonard-Delaney/e/B00E86C4B0/


Love this. I especially like his author bio.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2015)

1) Leonard Delaney is a legend.

This: while maintaining a long-distance relationship with his girlfriend, Misty (aka Éowyn16), who no longer responds to his direct messages, but he remains hopeful for a future with. 

****

2) I'm seriously going to get into Tech Billionaire Erotic Romance. Now that I know the magic formula is both people POV. Also going to throw in Google Glass POV.

*****

3) Do you think Hannah wrote it as an experiment and then got surprised it did so well and stopped. Perhaps she's too busy sipping Margaritas in Cocomo.


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

I don't write romance, but I love following success stories. The only thing here that surprises me is Hannah's excerpt. How does that not break this content guideline:

Pornography 
We don't accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.


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## Mr. Sparkle (Oct 8, 2014)

jakedfw said:


> I don't write romance, but I love following success stories. The only thing here that surprises me is Hannah's excerpt. How does that not break this content guideline:
> 
> Pornography
> We don't accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.


Easy - because that scene was sex, not porn. (Not even close.)


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

Briteka said:


> The biggest mystery is why she stopped releasing. If I had those numbers, I'd be turning out at least three a week.


I'm not sure she has stopped releasing. The last one came out a couple of weeks ago - Book 7 of the What He Wants series. I also let curiosity get the better of me on account of this thread and got totally sucked in! It becomes a bit of a murder mystery/erom thriller which is annoyingly compelling!

Anyway, makes me think that if you are going to release a series that depends on cliff hangers as much as this one does (and therefor maximise the KU benefits) then it would really be worth having the full series written up front and releasing them all either at the same time or over a short time frame. Most of the negative feedback that this series has got is about having to wait for the next instalment.

I hope she hasn't stopped releasing - I want to know whodunnit!


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## Jake Kerr (Aug 6, 2014)

Easy - because that scene was sex, not porn. (Not even close.)

I wasn't referring the the porn guideline, but this one:



> offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.


Again, I really have no skin in this game (pun sorta kinda intended), I just like to be on top (again, pun sorta kinda intended) of how much leeway Amazon gives us via their various guidelines.

So I guess I considered the scene at least somewhat "graphic" and it involved "sex."

Anyway, this is probably one of those things where you just go out and ask forgiveness and not permission because the guidelines are so open to interpretation, and honestly that's generally my approach to things with Select. So I'm in favor of that.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

jakedfw said:


> Easy - because that scene was sex, not porn. (Not even close.)
> 
> I wasn't referring the the porn guideline, but this one:
> 
> ...


I read the excerpt too. Just saying he fucked her does not make it graphic sex.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

The operative word there is "offensive". Depictions of sexual acts that are non-offensive are fine.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

I think what the OP meant by breaking the rules was simply that she has not done any marketing or set up an author page or engaged on social media. A lot of perceived wisdom here is that you must do those things to succeed, but of course we all know there are no rules that guarantee success, just ways to increase your chances...

I don't tend to bother with those things, I'm a big fan of the SMR way of *Write, Publish, Repeat *to make it and not to waste hours and hours on promotion


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## Briteka (Mar 5, 2012)

Amazon only considers something porn and cracks down on it when they get bad outside publicity. And the crackdown only lasts as long as the outside interest lasts.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

This series is on book 9 now and I see some readers are getting a bit frustrated with the lack of communication from the author, not knowing how many more books there are in the series and the author breaking the story up into small chunks. I was curious but stopped at book 2. They are addictive little books and it's easy to just one click these series if you are a KU member. I'm not.

I stopped reading a romance series when I saw that the author wouldn't reveal how many books there were in the series. Ok, it's only $1.45 a book but that mounts up when you have 10 or 12 or more books in a series. 
I prefer a good trilogy, like Deborah Bladon writes. I know what I'm getting for under $5.

The present contemporary romance author rankings are interesting with 4 authors in the top 10 writing short erotic romance but putting their books under contemporary romance or new adult romance. Wow. 

I'm off to write my short erotic romance trilogy.


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## Wired (Jan 10, 2014)

katetanner said:


> They are addictive little books...


What makes them addictive?


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Wired said:


> What makes them addictive?


I haven't read them. That said, what makes any book addictive is the author's voice and a compelling story.


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## Wired (Jan 10, 2014)

Marian said:


> I haven't read them. That said, what makes any book addictive is the author's voice and a compelling story.


True.

Can anyone who's read them offer specifics?


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## DaniO (Oct 22, 2012)

I've read the first two. There is an interesting suspense thread running through them.



Spoiler



A billionaire lawyer is suspected of murder and details about the case are revealed slowly. It's cleverly done as even though you know he is unlikely to be guilty you want to know the details but have to get the next book to find out more.


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## Drake (Apr 30, 2014)

I've REALLY go to learn to write faster!


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Wired said:


> What makes them addictive?


I've read the first two. There is an interesting suspense thread running through them.

Carrie explained the main synopsis. I only read the first two books too. I'd love to see where it goes but i'm not spending over $13 on a series with no end in sight. The books are a quick easy read, it pulls you in and you want to know what's going to happen between the main characters. i like a story with a sexy man who has a bit of mystery surrounding him. Someone said they remind them of 50 shades of grey. It's enthralling enough that i feel tempted to one click the whole series (the ones that are available right now) but as i said i'm not in KU and i prefer to spend $5 on a good trilogy like Deborah Bladon writes or a novel.


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

They are super addictive - they're very short and always end on a big cliff. There's also a thriller element to them, so it's not all sex and relationships. It's all good exciting stuff that's easy to read.

I've read all nine (I'm in KU) and think (hope) that the series should wrap up at 10. I'm not sure it's sustainable beyond that. Book 8 and 9 are particularly short (like 20 pages or something). It seems clear that the series was written with KU in mind - I would be really hacked off as a reader if I'd been paying for them (especially as someone else mentioned the endpoint isn't clear) and this is born out in the reviews.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Liz French said:


> They are super addictive - they're very short and always end on a big cliff. There's also a thriller element to them, so it's not all sex and relationships. It's all good exciting stuff that's easy to read.
> 
> I've read all nine (I'm in KU) and think (hope) that the series should wrap up at 10. I'm not sure it's sustainable beyond that. Book 8 and 9 are particularly short (like 20 pages or something). It seems clear that the series was written with KU in mind - I would be really hacked off as a reader if I'd been paying for them (especially as someone else mentioned the endpoint isn't clear) and this is born out in the reviews.


Yes this series is perfect for kU. You could binge on these little books. They take no time to read and they are just exciting enough that you want to read the next one straight away. This is a goldmine for some of these authors, especially the ones writing one book a week or every month (max). 
The lack of communication from the author is a bit frustrating for readers, she should announce when the series will end. The thing is these series can go and on, i give up on these types of series because i prefer a quick trilogy or a novel.


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

Seeing her series doing so well was what convinced me to go back to writing short erotica serials(10k installments). I've done really well at it, though admittedly not as good as her. I've been following her since she was on book 4 of her What He Wants series. 

The thing that makes me think that she wasn't already a well known author is that there was no ARC team in place. In the beginning, she didn't have a whole lot of reviews. And most of the ones that were there were crappy. Then again, her sales were always pretty awesome. When I first started following her, her newest installments were ranking in the low 200s.

One thing that I've noticed with my own series, is that each installment I release ends up ranking lower than the last shortly after release. My last installment made it to the mid-400s. The one before that was in the 500s. The one before that was in the 600s. It seems like the more installments you have, the better the next one ranks because you get more followers of the series thanks to KU. Unfortunately, my ranking hasn't been sticky like hers has though.

She's actually smart to continue on the series indefinitely. It may be frustrating to some readers, but there are obviously people that hang in for the long run, otherwise the newer installments wouldn't be ranking so well. My series is also open-ended, with plans for 17 installments, each released about a week apart. Who knows, if I can get the ranking of my installments under 100, maybe I'll also continue the series indefinitely. I go where the money is.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

KMatthew said:


> She's actually smart to continue on the series indefinitely. It may be frustrating to some readers, but there are obviously people that hang in for the long run, otherwise the newer installments wouldn't be ranking so well. My series is also open-ended, with plans for 17 installments, each released about a week apart. Who knows, if I can get the ranking of my installments under 100, maybe I'll also continue the series indefinitely. I go where the money is.


Yeah looking at her rank #63 in kindle store. 
#26 in romance 
#17 and #20 in contemporary romance
#7 and #8 in new adult romance

She is doing something very right. These sorts of short erotic romance stories do attract quite a few 1 and 2 star reviews (often these series get very few reviews) and the readers who are being vocal are the ones who are disappointed that she is not releasing an end date for the series. Obviously there are a lot of happy readers. 
If I joined KU I would borrow more series.

It's just my personal taste to stay away from these long open ended series.


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

KMatthew said:


> My series is also open-ended, with plans for 17 installments, each released about a week apart.


Gah! 17?! Poor Amy!

I'm really interested in how you (ie one) hold your nerve with this. I think there is only so much story left in What He Wants, particularly because of the thriller element. I'm from a TV soap background so I totally get (and love) the never-ending story arc, but without the introduction of significant new characters and new storylines I don't see how this is possible. There comes a point when the experience is dissatisfying, and that alienates readers.

I'm really interested in how to keep a series going indefinitely, like a tv show. Dunno, maybe that's a different thread.


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Liz French said:


> Gah! 17?! Poor Amy!
> 
> I'm really interested in how you (ie one) hold your nerve with this. I think there is only so much story left in What He Wants, particularly because of the thriller element. I'm from a TV soap background so I totally get (and love) the never-ending story arc, but without the introduction of significant new characters and new storylines I don't see how this is possible. There comes a point when the experience is dissatisfying, and that alienates readers.
> 
> I'm really interested in how to keep a series going indefinitely, like a tv show. Dunno, maybe that's a different thread.


Yeah, this might be something i should discuss in another thread. I am very interested in how someone writes a long series like the YA series 'Pretty little liars' and keeps that going for 17 or 20 books. I've watched a few episodes of the TV show and there are new characters introduced and subplots. Each of the main characters (4 teenage girls) has her own story but they are connected by a secret. The Vampire diaries series too, it could give an author an opportunity to write a spin off like 'The originals'. 
Abbi Glines writes series that have spin off's, it seems like a great way to build loyal readers (if the stories remain exciting)


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

What I would like to know if how people afford covers for all these serials instalments!

I have a series I have been outlining, but if I'm looking at decent series covers then they are about $180 each if custom made.  I have absolutely zero design skills of my own, so how does someone get a ton of covers and still make anything on these (assuming I will not have Ford's success) ?


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## katetanner (Mar 8, 2015)

Evenstar said:


> What I would like to know if how people afford covers for all these serials instalments!
> 
> I have a series I have been outlining, but if I'm looking at decent series covers then they are about $180 each if custom made. I have absolutely zero design skills of my own, so how does someone get a ton of covers and still make anything on these (assuming I will not have Ford's success) ?


If you are selling like Hannah Ford or anyone of the other authors writing erotic romance/contemporary romance serials right now, you can afford some nice covers.

Some authors are tech savvy and can make their own covers. You can try making one on pixlr, canva, gimp or picmonkey for free.

A few fiverr covers are not going to cost much

I've seen some cover artists selling a bundle of similar looking covers (same man different poses), they can be quite affordable if you want some professional covers. I did not keep a record of the cover artist but she was selling 3 or 6 covers in a bundle.

Some wattpad members make covers and as far as i remember, they are affordable.


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

Liz French said:


> Gah! 17?! Poor Amy!
> 
> I'm really interested in how you (ie one) hold your nerve with this. I think there is only so much story left in What He Wants, particularly because of the thriller element. I'm from a TV soap background so I totally get (and love) the never-ending story arc, but without the introduction of significant new characters and new storylines I don't see how this is possible. There comes a point when the experience is dissatisfying, and that alienates readers.
> 
> I'm really interested in how to keep a series going indefinitely, like a tv show. Dunno, maybe that's a different thread.


You are completely right about how new characters have to be introduced to keep a story going. I think Hannah Ford never planned for her series to go this far. That's why she introduced Noah's brother as a possibility for the killer when he previously wasn't mentioned before(at least, that's what I think, because his introduction was so out of left field). Personally, I'm pretty sure that Noah's lawyer had him framed to try to take out competition.

And yeah, poor Amy. lol There are quite a few [crap] storms coming her way before the inevitable happily ever after. I have a planned ending for the Flesh series, but if sales are still holding strong at installment 17, I have a backup plan to introduce Lucian's brother, who never would be a part of the series otherwise except for when Lucian talks about his family.

Hannah Ford could probably go on for a while coming up with murder suspects for Noah's case. Again, as you mentioned, you pretty much just need to throw new characters and scenarios into the mix to keep things interesting.


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## SusanCht (Oct 24, 2014)

She's smart; she cut to the chase and put out ads through WTRAFSOG -- her audience. The books are well-written. BUT I'm sick of the eRom short-story series thing. Novellas or even short novels are one thing; getting people to pay over $6 for a total of maybe 300 pages when if she did this as a single book it would be closer to $3 or $4 is all due to marketing. 

However, after the first trilogy, series like these go on to tell stories of secondary characters, which is how you can milk your brand for however many books you want.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

I think it's rather close to how Charles Dickens & Co did this. The serialised/chapterised novel used to be a Victorian _invention_. Then it was caused by being paid per word and published first in the broadsheets. Now it is KU.


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

Nic said:


> I think it's rather close to how Charles Dickens & Co did this. The serialised/chapterised novel used to be a Victorian _invention_. Then it was caused by being paid per word and published first in the broadsheets. Now it is KU.


Agree. It's not a new thing. KU just facilitates it.

As long as people are buying and reading (and presumably enjoying) then they are justified in the market place. As soon as they stop selling, people will stop writing them.

Personally I enjoy them as long as each episode is well structured and moves the story on enough to keep your interest. For the most part HF has achieved this, there's only one installment so far that has felt like treading water to me.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Hey folks,
In Dickens day, only the elite could afford books.  The reason for the serialization was because the more common folk could afford newspapers and magazines. 
It was all about the money and most eyes.


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## ZamajK (Jun 8, 2014)

Have you guys found his second pen name yet?


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> It was all about the money and most eyes.


It still is - but that's ok, it doesn't negate it as a format.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Liz French said:


> It still is - but that's ok, it doesn't negate it as a format.


I just get tired of the Dickens did it, so it must be ok. Wasn't negating just stating a fact.
Now yes, KU has made it a viable form again. And if I remember right, there have always been serials in magazines, or more precisely chapters of a novel in a magazine. But, and here is the big thing. 
One could choose to buy the entire book or they could read the installments in a magazine so best of both worlds. I forget which ladies magazine still does this. 
By all means , do your serial but please eventually put it together in book form for the readers that prefer the whole enchilada at once.


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## Liz French (Apr 13, 2014)

Ha ha yes agree that rolling out Dickens can get a bit tired. And personally his work doesn't really do it for me anyway.

But I think your point about putting it together as a book is interesting. For me, a serialised story should have a very different pace to a stand alone novel. Packaging it as a book is a bit like trying to cut a soap opera into a film - they're just very different things. I can see the argument from a pricing/selling point of view, but I'm not sure it's a good idea.

I've been thinking about thsi a lot recently as I'm mulling over an idea for an almost open ended serial, which is kind of why I'm following HF and this thread. At the moment though I don't see how you can do this when you are hanging your story off a romance, or a murder (or both) - these stories HAVE to have an ending by definition. It also doesn't work with a single protagonist, so I'm keen to see where HF takes it.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Ok you are doing a tv type serial.  I was talking magazine type serials which are by definition a chopped up novel.
No, Days of Our Lives would not work as a film.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Extended fanfiction typically comes in chapters. And there are a couple of erotica/SciFi writers who do serialised books published on their websites. It's also common for graphic novels/comic books.


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## Ceinwen (Feb 25, 2014)

Liz French said:


> But I think your point about putting it together as a book is interesting. For me, a serialised story should have a very different pace to a stand alone novel. Packaging it as a book is a bit like trying to cut a soap opera into a film - they're just very different things. I can see the argument from a pricing/selling point of view, but I'm not sure it's a good idea.


For a serial with an end point, or an ongoing one with several major defined arcs, I see it more like releasing the DVD at the end of each TV season. It's a great idea for people who like to binge read or readers who've started late and want to catch up.


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