# IPad 4 vs iPad Air (UPDATE: Ordered another Air!)



## Betsy the Quilter

So, I'm thinking I'm finally going to upgrade my beloved original iPad.  I'm looking at refurbished iPad 4s...  Is there really that great a difference between that and the Air?  Anyone have experience with both?

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

I had a 4th gen iPad, and replaced it with the iPad Air you saw at the DC meetup. My main motivations were the lighter weight and more compact dimensions of the Air, plus the more powerful processor, which I hoped would add to the speed of browsing websites and such. I don't run high-powered games, so wasn't worried about the processing power otherwise. I'd noticed a big jump in speed when I went from the iPad 1 to the iPad 2, and hoped that would happen again going from the 4 to the Air.

My results have been that I am delighted with the smaller dimensions and weight, it is more compact for stuffing in big pockets when traveling, and the lighter weight is still too heavy to use one handed for long times, but actually can be used one handed for awhile. I'm not that pleased with the speed, there was a speed increase, but from what I've observed and read about it, the lags I have in switching between tabs and websites are more due to the lack of RAM than due to lack of processing power. There is an improvement, but it isn't "instant" like I'd hoped.

Both use the new connector, so that's not a factor in choosing between them.

I don't think you care about ruggedness so much, but I was lucky enough to get an Otterbox Defender case through the Vine program, and find it quite usable for the most part on the Air (minor exception is that you don't have access to the switch that lets you lock screen rotation). The case gives me a real sense of confidence about the security of my expensive tablet. I believe the added bulk and weight of a similar Defender on the larger and heavier iPad 4 would be much more oppressive. If you plan to use such a case, I'd definitely recommend the Air.

Looking briefly in the Apple store, it appears that difference between an Air and a refurbed 4 is about $170 (I only compared one model, and I didn't see any wifi only iPad 4 refurbs, though I may have missed some).

If you already owned an iPad 4, I'd advise against upgrading to the Air unless the lighter weight and lower bulk were very important to you, or you ran high power games that needed the speed. My personal suggestion is that since you plan to buy a new iPad anyway, I'd avoid the refurb 4, and go ahead and spend the extra $170 to get the Air, and have a higher tech machine that you know hasn't been previously used by a serial killer.  If nothing else, it will probably put off buying your NEXT new iPad for at least a year longer, which is worth the $170! I haven't paid close attention since I'm not in the market, but I think I've seen occasional deals or markdowns on iPad Airs, you might look for such.

If you have to negotiate with hubby and have other uses in mind for the $170, or if the $170 is a real sacrifice, you may want to ignore my comments, though. I promise not to make snide remarks.


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## The Hooded Claw

By the way, if you choose to get a 4G-capable iPad, TMobile gives a tiny (200 MB) allotment of data each month for free. That's not much, but enough to check KB and email a few times over a weekend trip. More data is available for moderate prices. If you have TMobile as your phone carrier, it can be added to your plan and you get a discount on adding data to the iPad. I bought a TMobile iPad, and have been happy with the data service. I don't regret spending extra for it.


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## VictoriaP

GET THE AIR!  

Betsy, our original iPads are still running too. But last year, we ultimately ended up upgrading both--I went with the Mini last spring, during a hospital stay where holding even an iPad 4 would have been too much weight/bulk. However, my Mother in Law picked up the iPad 4 at that point. Hubby picked up the Air shortly after release last fall, with the 200 MB TMobile package the Claw mentioned. MIL has been back for visits, so I've been able to compare side by side. 

THERE'S NO CONTEST. GET THE AIR!

Now, I don't have the Retina Mini, and generally don't regret it. I happened to actually lift the Air today while it was on, and holy cow, but that's a gorgeous screen. Whether you pick the 4 or the Air, you'll marvel at the difference from the original iPad. But when I play with the Air at all, I found myself stunned at how thin, light, and small it is by comparison to the first iPads. It makes those originals AND all the ones in between look clunky!

If the Air had existed when we bought my Mini, I just might have stayed with the full size. It's definitely more portable than the iPad 4. Most Apple upgrades year over year don't feel worth it to me, but I think the Air really is the best iPad yet, and is well worth the premium over a refurb iPad 4.


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## Betsy the Quilter

My understanding is that the screen is the same in the iPad 4 and the Air, is that correct?

I'll have to check the weight diff between the iPad I have and the 4, as I don't feel that the iPad 1 lacks portability. 

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Yep, The displays are the same. But the weight difference really is huge!


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## Betsy the Quilter

Y'all have given me a lot to think about.  Yes, $170 diff is what I'm looking at...and that diff is enough to more than pay for my next eink Kindle.   Plus some books.

So I'm thinking...it's going to be a big leap for me from the iPad 1 no matter which I choose.  And I'll get the WiFi only; don't need a data plan.

I'm going to wait a bit to decide and see what the finances are.

Betsy


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## kwajkat

Adding my three cents to the mix, go for the Air. I have the ipad 4 and had an air. There is a big difference between the weight, size, performance over the 4. When you combine those differences that saving you are talking about is a mute point. You are getting a newer generation device which blows away any other ipad except for the mini retina. I had the Air when they came out but ended having to take it back due to some problems. When Wally's had their no interest for 2 years offer before Christmas I went for the 128 mini and haven't looked back too much! I do miss the larger screen of the Air for some things but overall I am real happy with the mini retina. I would get the Air in a heart beat if I could however.  Just read more free books until you can get another kindle. (Ha)!!  Actually I find myself using the mini more than my kindle for reading at night.


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## nico

I waited and waited and waited to get an iPad. My criteria were: thinner and lighter, but with the 10" screen. When the iPad Air launched, i jumped on it right away and i can say i love it. The iPad 4 was just too heavy to hold for an extended period for me. 

Now, i still wish the iPad Air were 50% lighter, but technology has its limits. 

Of course, i read on the iPad, so i don't have a separate eink reader. If i did read on eink, i would probably pony up for the best reader i could and go with the retina iPad mini.


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## Betsy the Quilter

I use my iPad mostly at home on a stand with a bluetooth keyboard.  Probably 35K, at least, of my 48K posts here were made using this iPad as it's my primary computer.  I do carry it with me in a purse occasionally, and I'm fine with it.  So weight isn't really a big issue for me, and I can always take the HDX7 with me when I go out if I need a tablet.

I definitely want the larger screen and weight isn't really an issue.  Working through this discussion makes me think I really don't need the Air...but we'll see how much spare change I have when I'm ready to buy.

Good discussion, thanks!  Once I make a final decision, I'll let y'all know.

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2014/02/target-to-offer-olympic-size-deals-on-new-ios-devices-beginning-sunday-feb-9

$50 gift card with iPad Air purchase. Note that they will take your original ipad and give store credit towards this purchase.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Thanks, Claw!  A good deal...I'm probably going to get mine, when I do, from Amazon as I have a fair bit of gift cards.  But hopefully someone here will take advantage of it!

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Thanks, Claw! A good deal...I'm probably going to get mine, when I do, from Amazon as I have a fair bit of gift cards. But hopefully someone here will take advantage of it!


Awkward, I thought I night enable you!


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## Toby

I'm now up to 34 points/dollars. I need a lot more points to use to bring the price down.


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> Awkward, I thought I night enable you!


If I (a) didn't have all a substantial gift credit on Amazon that I can use and (b) am on vacation right now--not the best time to be obsessed with a new toy--it might have worked! LOL!

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter

HH Gregg and Target also offering discounts:

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2014/02/h-h-gregg-is-offering-discounts-on-apple-ipads

It's getting hard to wait...

Betsy


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## maries

You don't often see promos on new Apple products.  The size of the Air reminds me of the 8.9" Fire and I like that size.    I want to upgrade to the Air at some point but not quite ready yet but this is a good deal.  I never have trouble using Amazon gift cards though so I would find plenty of other things to get with that balance.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Yeah, my A-gift card balance is prety much my discretionary spending for gadgets.  I could find lots of stuff to spend it on, but since I finally think I need to update my iPad--too many apps I want to run that require the upgraded OS--I think that's going to be my new toy.  Hopefully, I'll be able to replenish before a new Kindle comes out!

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington

FWIW, the Boy had an original iPad and this past Christmas he decided he wanted to upgrade. Mainly because some of the software he used in the theatre was getting upgraded to the point that it didn't work well on the original iPad. His plan was to donate that original one to one of the theatre groups that regularly uses his facility (a non profit) so they don't have to use personal devices with the organization's "square" account.

So, for Christmas, we decided we could let that be his one gift.

He'd done the research and decided the 4 was what he wanted. Didn't see the purpose in spending more money for the Air -- even if it wasn't _his_ money. He had it on a wishlist at the Zon -- the price fluctuates: he'd shown me when he listed it and when we went to see about purchasing it (maybe 10 days later), it had gone up by about $50! 

So we did some further looking around and found it new elsewhere cheaper. And we ended up being able to get a refurbished model direct from Apple, with an extra year of Apple Care for about the same price as the new one. And he's thrilled with it. He definitely notices the improvement in responsiveness -- even though he had no problem with the other one he had -- and figures he'll keep this one until there's an Air 8 or 9.


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## William G. Jones

I got an iPad Air on Black Friday and my only other iPad experience was an iPad 2, so this may be apples to oranges, but...

The thin bezels on the Air mean I can thumb-type on the full keyboard. I've actually written quite a bit using this method. I can't do this on the iPad 2 (or the 4, since the bezels are essentially the same).

The lightness means I can actually use the Air as an ereader. I would NEVER use the iPad 2 as an ereader because of the screen quality, and I'm extremely surprised at how little use my Paperwhite has gotten since the Air arrived. In fact, last night was the first time since Christmas that I've even turned it on. 

I already have a few apps that are optimized the for the Air's A7 64-bit processor. It seems that a few of the apps I use have horrible reviews from iPad 3 and iPad 4 users for the latest updates crashing, particularly Final Draft Writer. On the Air, at least for me, all my apps are rock-solid. Plus, Procreate has a special canvas only available on the Air. I suspect that the performance difference between 32 bit and 64 bit of apps will get even worse over time, much as it did for Apple's computers when they switched from 32 bit to 64 bit processors (I had a decently nice MacBook Pro that got retired after 2 years because the updated software I needed only ran well on 64-bit machines).

If your main use is as a computer replacement, on a desktop, with a keyboard, none of those things may matter to you.

I also wanted to note, refurbs usually start showing up about 6 months after a product launch, and if you buy refurbished from Apple, you still get the full 1-year warranty AND you get the free apps that come with the purchase of a new iOS device. Once refurb iPad Airs hit the Apple store, it will push the price of iPad 4 models down quite a bit, and that might be worth waiting for. Just a thought.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Thanks, William.

I use a bluetooth keyboard with my iPad--think I've thumb-typed twice.  I do occasionally use the popup keyboard in a quasi touch type fashion.  I don't really use my current iPad much as a mobile type device.

The most compelling argument for me is having apps be compatible.  It's finding more and more apps no longer support my current iPad that's driving me to this update, otherwise I'm still very satisfied with my current iPad.  I don't need faster, I don't need lighter, I don't need a better screen, but I do want the apps.  Fortunately, I don't have to decide right away.

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Betsy the Quilter said:


> The most compelling argument for me is having apps be compatible. It's finding more and more apps no longer support my current iPad that's driving me to this update, otherwise I'm still very satisfied with my current iPad. I don't need faster,


Don't forget that faster now means compatible apps for longer in the future. Faster now means that you will be compatible with new versions of iOS for longer. Till the iPad 8 or iPad Hydrogen, or whatever it will be called in three or four years.


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> Don't forget that faster now means compatible apps for longer in the future. Faster now means that you will be compatible with new versions of iOS for longer. Till the iPad 8 or iPad Hydrogen, or whatever it will be called in three or four years.


Yes, that's what I mean--the compatibility of apps is more important than the speed....


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## The Hooded Claw

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD788LL/A

The refurbished iPad Airs have arrived in the Apple Store. I haven't checked but this might mean a decrease in the price of refurbished iPad 4s.


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## noodle24

I've had both. Honestly, if you get the iPad Air you'll be glad you did. I'm absolutely in love with mine, and the reduced weight makes reading on it so much more enjoyable.


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## luvmykindle3

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Yes, that's what I mean--the compatibility of apps is more important than the speed....


Which one did you finally get? I'm trying to decide if I want to upgrade my ipad3, to the ipad air. I want all my devices to have same cords, my iPhone 5s and mini have new cords, and my ipad 3 has old one.


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## mooshie78

I'd always go with newest versions for iPads and iPhones.

With the yearly iOS updates, you've only got a few years before the device gets too slow on an update, or locked out of updating at all by Apple (and then you're not getting security updates which isn't good).

I got an Air recently as my iPad 2 was slow as heck on iOS7.  The Air is a year newer than an iPad 4, so that's one extra year before I have that type of "forced" upgrade happen again.


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## Betsy the Quilter

luvmykindle3 said:


> Which one did you finally get? I'm trying to decide if I want to upgrade my ipad3, to the ipad air. I want all my devices to have same cords, my iPhone 5s and mini have new cords, and my ipad 3 has old one.


I haven't yet.  Kinda leaning toward an iPad Air.



The Hooded Claw said:


> http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD788LL/A
> 
> The refurbished iPad Airs have arrived in the Apple Store. I haven't checked but this might mean a decrease in the price of refurbished iPad 4s.


I'm probably going to buy through Amazon so I can use my substantial gift card credit...but perhaps I'll be able to find a refurb through them.



mooshie78 said:


> I'd always go with newest versions for iPads and iPhones.
> 
> With the yearly iOS updates, you've only got a few years before the device gets too slow on an update, or locked out of updating at all by Apple (and then you're not getting security updates which isn't good).
> 
> I got an Air recently as my iPad 2 was slow as heck on iOS7. The Air is a year newer than an iPad 4, so that's one extra year before I have that type of "forced" upgrade happen again.


That's probably true, but I'm still (mostly) happily using my original iPad. My rule for updating has always been update when there's software that I want to run or something I want to do that I can't with the older device/operating system. I'm starting to lust for apps on the iPad that I can't run. Hence the desire to update. The security update is an issue, but I don't really do anything on my iPad that I am overly concerned about. Financial stuff I do on my i'Touch, which has the latest iOS.


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## kwajkat

Rumor control says the new iOS8 due out this summer or early fall will feature a split screen for some apps. Might be something to push you to upgrade later this year. Just saying. The new ipads are a night and day difference from the 1st gen ipad.


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## Betsy the Quilter

kwajkat said:


> Rumor control says the new iOS8 due out this summer or early fall will feature a split screen for some apps. Might be something to push you to upgrade later this year. Just saying. The new ipads are a night and day difference from the 1st gen ipad.


Saw that somewhere. Split screen isn't a big deal for me, though I expect I'd use it if I have it. And, yes, I'm a frequent browser at the Apple Store, so I've seen and played with the new devices.  (Saw Claw's soon after he got it!) But, as I said, except for Kindle devices which I justify by being a moderator here, my rule of thumb is to upgrade when the device no longer does what I need it to do. And my iPad pretty much does. There are just one or two apps I'd like to run.  My plan is to upgrade sometime this year. At the beginning of the year, I was thinking May. But I'm not in a hurry. Maybe in the next few months. Probably, if I didn't have the Fire HDXs, I'd have more of an itch for a new tablet.


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## Betsy the Quilter

It's my birthday (soon) and I'll dance if I want to. Well, I had a gift card windfall and pulled the trigger on an iPad Air this morning.  It's not supposed to be here until Wednesday....
  

Betsy


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## amyberta

Betsy the Quilter said:


> It's my birthday (soon) and I'll dance if I want to. Well, I had a gift card windfall and pulled the trigger on an iPad Air this morning. It's not supposed to be here until Wednesday....
> 
> 
> Betsy


Betsy, Happy Birthday. Let us know how you like it. I heard that when the upgrades come out for the IPad, there won't be one for the IPad 2, so I will probably get the air when I can't use the IPad anymore. Which one are you getting. Enjoy it


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## Betsy the Quilter

amyberta said:


> Betsy, Happy Birthday. Let us know how you like it. I heard that when the upgrades come out for the IPad, there won't be one for the IPad 2, so I will probably get the air when I can't use the IPad anymore. Which one are you getting. Enjoy it


I got a new Ipad Air, black with "space gray" back, 64GB, WiFi only. So the latest version of my original iPad.

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I got a new Ipad Air, black with "space gray" back, 64GB, WiFi only. So the latest version of my original iPad.
> 
> Betsy


Congrats, and happy soon to be birthday! I still have the one you saw, and love it. I'll bet you like yours.


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> Congrats, and happy soon to be birthday! I still have the one you saw, and love it. I'll bet you like yours.


I have no doubt. After all, I still love my original iPad. 

I've started reading the user's manual.

I have a couple of questions for people who have one. The instability of the Safari browser on the original iPad has been a problem from almost the start, and is one of the few things I don't like. Is the browser more stable with the later OS/devices?

And, also browser related, I love the bookmarks bar on Safari and made extensive use of it, but didn't see any mention of it in the user's guide--I saw "Favorites" under Bookmarks instead. Is there no more bookmarks bar? (I have 21 items on my bookmarks bar right now, that correspond to many of the KB forums and features that I use quite often.)

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

I had problems with the unstable Safari for a long time, but the crashes seem to have gone away after the most recent major IOS update, I forget the name of the update now. I no longer consider them a problem.

I still have bookmarks. Immediately to the right of the space where you enter the URL or the search term, there is a graphic of a book open and laying flat. Click on the graphic and you see a long list of your bookmarks. There's also an option to change and make it show your reading list, but I've never used the reading list feature much, and don't really understand it.


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> I had problems with the unstable Safari for a long time, but the crashes seem to have gone away after the most recent major IOS update, I forget the name of the update now. I no longer consider them a problem.
> 
> I still have bookmarks. Immediately to the right of the space where you enter the URL or the search term, there is a graphic of a book open and laying flat. Click on the graphic and you see a long list of your bookmarks. There's also an option to change and make it show your reading list, but I've never used the reading list feature much, and don't really understand it.


Good to hear about the crashes. That's one of the things I was hoping to resolve, in addition to gaining access to apps that require the later OS.

Yes, I understand bookmarks are still there (is it wrong that I'm reading the user's guide on my Kindle Fire? ) but it looks like there is no longer a bookmarks *bar* but "favorites" that you access through the Bookmarks button. Here's how I use the bookmarks bar now (see red circle):










For me to move quickly between KB forums using the new Safari, as I understand it, would take three taps--one on the Bookmarks icon, one on Favorites and then one on the actual bookmark. Right now, it's one tap. I don't see anything about it in the user's guide, except where it says "Bookmarks bar on your Mac?" and then says how to make the bookmarks bar on your Mac appear as Favorites on the iPad.

Maybe I'll have to check out other browsers.  I hadn't found one before that I liked as well as the original Safari; maybe it's time to look again.

I don't get the Reading List either.  Although I think it's a way to read web pages offline.

EDIT: It looks like there's an option in the Safari settings to "Display your Favorites at the top of the page." Which sounds like it may be what I'm looking for...

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

You're golden. There is indeed a choice in settings under Safari for "show favorites bar."

Not to my taste, but I'm glad to know about it. I'm going to try it to,see if it grows on me.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Yay!  It helps me browse the forums quickly.  I'm really lazy....

Betsy


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## Toby

I'll just say Happy Birthday now!!! Let us know how you like the Air.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Will do!!  (It's in Chantilly, VA now, about an hour from me!  The rumor is that it will be delivered on Tueday instead of Wednesday.  *keeps fingers crossed!)

Betsy


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## Toby

I'm so excited for you! I hope you do get it 1 day earlier.


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## luvmykindle3

Let us know how you like it. I've been thinking about updating my ipad 3, but it has retina display and still works beautifully, so I'll keep it till it stops.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Will do!  (Pretty sure I'm going to love it!)

It's being delivered by Lasership.    They're tracking isn't quite as good as UPS.  I've had good experiences with them, but sometimes they deliver quite late.  I'm going out to dinner tonight--hope it arrives before I leave!

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter

Woohoo!  Out for delivery!!!! IPad Watch!


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## Betsy the Quilter

It's here!  *runs off to play*

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Betsy the Quilter said:


> It's here! *runs off to play*
> 
> Betsy


I hope you had fun! And that you didn't ruin dinner by insisting on taking it along and playing with it between courses...


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## Toby

Yay! "Out for delivery" is sweet music to my ears. Hope you had a great dinner as well. Enjoy both.


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> I hope you had fun! And that you didn't ruin dinner by insisting on taking it along and playing with it between courses...


Ah, y'all know me so well!

Unfortunately, sadness.....I'm sending it back. Not because I didn't like the device, but because it arrived damaged. :









I noticed the dent in the box, but when I opened it, initially it looked fine. Then, I saw a side view. 

And because it's "Fulfilled by Amazon," they don't replace, only refund. So, I'm going to have to wait until the refund is processed and then try again.

Betsy

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk 2


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## KindleGirl

Sorry to hear that, Betsy! Nothing ruins the fun more than receiving a damaged item you have been waiting on!  Hopefully they'll refund it quickly.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Shipped it this morning, the website says after receiving it on their end, the refund will be credited within two business days.  

A testiment to the device--it still worked fine and there was no crack in the screen despite the significant bend in the device--worse than it looks in the pic.  Which is why I didn't notice it right away--I checked the screen right away because of the dented box and it looked fine.  I'd say the device was distorted about 1/8th inch; made it rock when on the table.



But the other good news is that it confirmed that I do want a new device.  The lack of crashing in the Safari browser alone is worth the upgrade, and the speed difference is significant.  And while I had it, I picked up some apps that required iOS 7.   So, they're in my library now.  The screen IS gorgeous, though that was never one of my primary requirements; I'll certainly enjoy it when I get another one.

I also liked the back cover that I had ordered long before ordering the device.  So that's a keeper.

So, I'll just consider it a test drive. 

Betsy


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## Leslie

That's a shame, Betsy. It's so disappointing when something you are eagerly waiting for arrives damaged. It happened to me with a Kindle once--I had a replacement in 18 hours. Sounds like it will take a bit longer for your Air to be replaced.

L


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## Betsy the Quilter

Leslie said:


> That's a shame, Betsy. It's so disappointing when something you are eagerly waiting for arrives damaged. It happened to me with a Kindle once--I had a replacement in 18 hours. Sounds like it will take a bit longer for your Air to be replaced.
> 
> L


Thanks, Leslie.

Yeah, unfortunately, I have to get a refund and then purchase a new one. Which will be another third party, fulfilled by Amazon deal, so hopefully it won't be a lemon. And hopefully there will still be some available. I really want black with grey. If I end up getting a white one--there seem to be more of these--I'll probably skin it.

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Rats!


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## Toby

I'm so sorry as well.


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## Betsy the Quilter

It'll work out...it's just a little delay.   I'm doing lots of quilting instead of playing with the new device.

Betsy


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## Toby

Yup, just a blip on the radar. Hope you get your refund quickly, so you can re-order. BTW, how did you get into quilting, Betsy?


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## Betsy the Quilter

My grandmother quilted. We always had quilts on the bed growing up.  We sleep now under a quilt that my aunt pieced, my grandmother quilted and my mother bound (she did not quilt, though she sewed).  I always wanted to learn, and one day going home from work, we passed a quilt shop.  The rest is history. 

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter

WOOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!

I just reordered my iPad Air!!!!!!!!!!!!        I got a notice this morning at 8AM that they'd received it and by 10:30 I got the email that the refund had been processed.  And, the iPad Air  was $12 cheaper than the one I ordered before (who knows what's wrong with this one ) so I opted for the $3.99 Saturday delivery.  TOMORROW!!!!!!!!  Gotta love Amazon.

Betsy
*does happy dance*
*knocks on wood that this one will be okay.*


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## Toby

I've been thinking of you today while I was out. I was feeling so bad for you after what happened. Now, I am back to feeling so excited & happy for you again. This is wonderful news! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this time, you will get it & it works. I am anxious to hear what you think of it. I still go back & forth in my mind on whether I should get the Air or the Mini. 

I loved your story on how you got into quilting. Everything fell into place when you were ready to start.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Out for delivery!!!!  (Had a brief scare this morning when the tracking showed delivery of June 3rd, but now it's out for delivery.)  I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day. 

We'll see how it goes today!

Thanks for the thoughts, Toby!

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

IPad watch! Again....


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## Ann in Arlington

Really, it's much more appropriate that it arrive, today, as it's your birthday.


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## Betsy the Quilter

That's true!  I've been playing with it.  It's flat, which is a good thing.    Fred is using it right now to research cars for sale.

I'm going to gradually get it set up to take the place of the old one.  I might donate the old one to our zoo here.  They apparently use them with the orangutans.  Seriously.



Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington

Well, if orangutans can use 'em, I suppose Fred can!  

Nick donated his to a local community theater group so they wouldn't have to use their personal devices with Square for payments at the shows.


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## Toby

Happy Birthday! Congrates! Don't forget to let us know how you like it.


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## Betsy the Quilter

I've just today switched over to using it for my primary computer--pairing the keyboard, etc.  I'm enjoying the fact that the browser doesn't crash nearly as often so far as Safari has been doing on my old one.

It's also much faster loading pages than the old browser.

Plus I've found some new games to play. 

The screen is quite nice--it wasn't a major factor in my decision to upgrade, but I'm certainly going to enjoy it. 

One of the apps I use a lot, Appshopper, has apparently been removed from the AppStore, and I can't even find it in my "Purchased" apps to download onto the new iPad, so I have to see if backing it up in iTunes will allow me to then add it back to the new iPad Air.  They have a website version, and I have it on my i'Touch, but I'd like it on the new device, if possible.  I've sent a message to the developer.

It's lighter, and that will be a good thing when I'm carrying it in my purse if I'm doing a lot of standing and walking (though I usually take the 7" Fire).  I don't often actually hold my iPad, it's generally in a stand and I'm using the bluetooth Keyboard.


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## nico

One thing about the bookmarks bar. It's not really necessary anymore because if you tap the address bar, the browser window fills up with all your bookmarks in neat little square buttons. One of my favorite features of the new Safari!

Enjoy the new iPad! It's amazing for reading, too.


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## The Hooded Claw

nico said:


> One thing about the bookmarks bar. It's not really necessary anymore because if you tap the address bar, the browser window fills up with all your bookmarks in neat little square buttons. One of my favorite features of the new Safari!
> 
> Enjoy the new iPad! It's amazing for reading, too.


Y'know, I knew that. I was so focused on answering Betsy's question it didn't occur to me to mention it.

Also if you touch the little graphic with horizontal lines in it at the left of the address bar, on most webpages you get a reading view similar to that on the Kindle Fire. Much more convenient for reading.


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## Betsy the Quilter

nico said:


> One thing about the bookmarks bar. It's not really necessary anymore because if you tap the address bar, the browser window fills up with all your bookmarks in neat little square buttons. One of my favorite features of the new Safari!
> 
> Enjoy the new iPad! It's amazing for reading, too.


Thanks, Nico! I read on whatever device I have handy that's charged--everything from my iPad to my Paperwhite, so I will be using the iPad for reading some.

I noticed the bookmarks page thingy--that's a good feature. But have I mentioned that I'm really lazy? That's an extra tap over having the bookmarks bar available all the time.  Definitely good for people who want to save that extra line of real estate, though. In an ideal world, I would have my bookmarks bar for the most used and could have other links appear when I tap the address bar.

Was out today, didn't get to play much.

Betsy


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## Toby

I'm glad you like it so far.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Well, I pretty much expected to.  It does better the things my old one did well, and does more.  It has fixed some  The color changes at the top of Safari are a bit distracting. 

I like some of the things that have been added in iOS 7.

I did find out today that Springpad, an app I liked quite a bit, kind of like Evernote, is shutting down.  Another app not available in the store anymore.   Their website is has a tool to migrate information over to Evernote.  Sadness.  I like Evernote, but I liked Springpad better.

Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter

*headdesk*

*sigh.*

The Pogo Connect stylus that I got as a gift wouldn't work with my original iPad--too old--so I've been hoarding it, waiting for the upgrade. And it won't work with the iPad Air--too new. *sigh.* Apparently the sensor system that the Air uses with the screen isn't compatible.

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington

Well that's extremely annoying.  (I was going to use worse language, but, you know, family friendly)

'course . . . . it's probably equally frustrating for the folks that make the thing!


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## Betsy the Quilter

Yes, [familyfriendly]


Yes, it is annoying for all involved. Apparently it would have worked with the iPad 4 I was considering. It never occurred to me to check that. Sigh. It's a nice tool for working with art. Oh, well.....I'll hang on to it and see what they come up with; maybe a firmware update will be possible or I can do a tradein.

Betsy


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## The Hooded Claw

Sorry about the stylus.  At least you are all set up to have the best possible experience with the just - announced ios 8!


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## Betsy the Quilter

The Hooded Claw said:


> Sorry about the stylus. At least you are all set up to have the best possible experience with the just - announced ios 8!


Yes, I've been reading about iOS 8.  I'm excited to have software updates again.

I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd read about the stylus incompatibility...it might have made a difference, but I don't have buyer's regret, just disappointment. It _was_ one of the things I was looking forward to using when I upgraded. Oh, well. It'll work out.

Really enjoying the Air. Trying to figure out if I can move my keyboard shortcuts from my original iPad to my Air, but it seems from what I've been looking at that that's something that started with iOS 6.0.

The weight wasn't a big deal to me in choosing to upgrade, but now when I pick up my original, it seems clunky and heavy!

Betsy


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## Toby

Nice report on the Air. Sorry about the stylus.


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## Betsy the Quilter

This isn't something about the Air as such, but about the iOS (currently 7.1.1 or something).  The original iPad was frozen in time on iOS 5.3...  I use a bluetooth keyboard with my iPad, but occasionally I'll walk to another room with it, leaving the keyboard behind, and it's frustrating to not be able to enter a search term without turning off bluetooth, which is a multi-step process on the old iPad.  With 7.1, I can swipe up from the bottom to bring up the control center and tap the bluetooth icon to turn it off.  Easy peasy.  Something I'll use a lot and often wished for on the old device.  Thanks, Apple!  Another thing that makes the upgrade so worth while for the way I use the device.


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## nico

Hey Betsy, sorry about the stylus, but have you tried contacting the company that makes it? Maybe they have a solution or some kind of compensation for people running the latest models. I'm sure they'd want to make it right!


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## Betsy the Quilter

nico said:


> Hey Betsy, sorry about the stylus, but have you tried contacting the company that makes it? Maybe they have a solution or some kind of compensation for people running the latest models. I'm sure they'd want to make it right!


Thanks, Nico. They have an announcement on their website about the lack of compatibility and a sign up for news about it...I've signed up. The website is how I found out about it; I was going to download a current manual for the stylus. I think if they can figure out a solution, they will. Maybe they'll have a trade-in program. 

Betsy


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## Toby

Yes, that's right. You can swipe up to toggle the bluetooth on & off. I haven't used it, the swiping up part, but I have used it to make the tablet brighter or darker, which is awesome. 
Now, that you have played with your Air, I need your expert advice. Should I get the Air with wifi only or the Mini with Cell? I would be upgrading from my iPad 2.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Toby said:


> Yes, that's right. You can swipe up to toggle the bluetooth on & off. I haven't used it, the swiping up part, but I have used it to make the tablet brighter or darker, which is awesome.
> Now, that you have played with your Air, I need your expert advice. Should I get the Air with wifi only or the Mini with Cell? I would be upgrading from my iPad 2.


Toby--

It's a pretty personal choice. Without knowing a lot more about how you use your iPad 2, I'm not sure I can tell you which to get.

I have the Air with WiFi only...all of my devices are WiFi only. I have a phone I can use as a hotspot if I really need connection, which I rarely do. In my area, free WiFi is pretty common even when I'm not home. Which I am most of the time. Only you can say how much you need/want the cell connection and whether paying the additional fee is worth it to you.

I haven't used a Mini much--I've played with them, though. And I have the 7" Fire. I never really considered the Mini as I knew I wanted the larger screen size. I use my iPad as my primary computer, plus I do a lot of work with photographs and digital art and the larger size is better for that.

When I go out, these days I tend to take the 7" Fire for most things, unless there's specifically something (maps mostly) that I want the iPad for. So the smaller size is better for that.

Ultimately, it comes down to how you're going to use the device. And you're the only one that can answer that. Do you really need the cell version? Would the smaller screen suffice to you? When/how are you using the iPad 2. Those, to me, are the important questions. If you really want the cell version, but have to forego it to get the larger iPad, than maybe the Mini is the device for you.

A lot of the responses to my initial questions were very good, but didn't really apply to me the way I use the device, though they gave me food for thought as to what was really important to me. Ultimately, it was the future upgrade path that won me over for the Air vs the iPad 4, as that's my main reason for getting a new device at any time. I never considered the Mini because of the size.

Not sure this helps  but those are my thoughts. You may want to start your own thread so that the iPad Mini owners will weigh in. (But here is fine, too; just don't know if the Mini owners will bother to look here!)


Betsy


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## Betsy the Quilter

nico said:


> Hey Betsy, sorry about the stylus, but have you tried contacting the company that makes it? Maybe they have a solution or some kind of compensation for people running the latest models. I'm sure they'd want to make it right!


I've been doing some more playing with the stylus. And interestingly, their app for connecting/calibrating the stylus works fine. There's a module in it where you can test the drawing capability. But none of the apps I've tried so far seem to work. So perhaps there is hope. Though I've also read that other stylii by other companies are also having problems with the Air. *shrug* If I find out anymore, I'll post it here.

Betsy


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## WDR

I know Wacom makes a pressure sensitive stylus for the iPad. There are also a few other companies that make a pressure sensitive stylus. If you have to get a new stylus, you may as well go all the way and buy something with extra ability. Average price seems to be between $110–$120.


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## Betsy the Quilter

WDR said:


> I know Wacom makes a pressure sensitive stylus for the iPad. There are also a few other companies that make a pressure sensitive stylus. If you have to get a new stylus, you may as well go all the way and buy something with extra ability. Average price seems to be between $110--$120.


Thanks, WDR.

From what I can tell, all of the current stylii are having mixed results with the Air. For now, I'll wait and see what comes up. I'll keep doing research.

Betsy


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## nico

love the word "stylii" (but autocorrect doesn't).


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## Toby

Thanks Betsy! Those are terrific questions to ponder. I already asked the mini group & they really love the mini so much that they stopped using the iPad/Air. Then, I read the reviews of people that have the Airs, & they love the size. I use my iPad pretty much like you, so to speak, as a main computer. In my case, artwork. I do like the larger screen on my ipad as I have a harder time seeing the small letters, although I can make most pages larger by zooming out. I like the mini for it's lighter weight. I am leaning towards the Air right now. If I do get this, I will likely go for the wifi, but not sure, as T-Mobile gives a small amount of data free. I don't know if it's worth the extra bucks. I would only use the cell on the Air for emergencies like losing power. I've had my iPhone5 for a year, so now I am used to using that for when I am not at home. For me, it's only home for wifi. I live in a small town & basically go to work & come back home, go food shopping & dining out occasionally. I really should just check with T-Mobile (My iPhone) to see if I can use my phone as a hotspot, like you said. How do you use your phone as a hotspot? Do you just turn the hotspot on your phone & then it works on your tablet? Would I have to pay? Yes, I know, contact T-Mobile.....


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## Ann in Arlington

Toby said:


> I really should just check with T-Mobile (My iPhone) to see if I can use my phone as a hotspot, like you said. How do you use your phone as a hotspot? Do you just turn the hotspot on your phone & then it works on your tablet? Would I have to pay? Yes, I know, contact T-Mobile.....


Depends on the provider I'd say. With Verizon, we had an unlimited data plan. They discontinued that a couple of years ago, but let existing customers stick with unlimited data as long as we didn't change phones. With the unlimited data plan, you had to pay an extra $30 a month to turn on the hotspot feature of your phone. On the Android platform, however, there are 3rd party apps that would do the same thing for just the cost of the app, which was only $7 or $8 for the full version. A free version gave you something like 15 minutes a day -- which would be enough if all you want to do is download email.

Last month when my son needed a new phone, we had to change plans. With the _new_ plan, the text and talk is unlimited and we pay for an amount of data. The 'hotspotting' is included because, of course, what they want you to do is run over your data allowance so they can charge you more.  The Boy is happy with this as his new phone is an iPhone and it doesn't have any 3rd party hotspotting apps available. We do need to keep better track of what we use the phones for . . . . the good news is we can alter the plan at any time to add GB if it looks like we might be getting close to the limit.


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## Betsy the Quilter

Toby said:


> How do you use your phone as a hotspot? Do you just turn the hotspot on your phone & then it works on your tablet? Would I have to pay? Yes, I know, contact T-Mobile.....


My phone, cheap plan, allows a certain amount of data every month. Not enough to stream movies, but enough to look up stuff on the internet. You turn the hotspot on and it creates a passworded WiFi network that you can connect your tablet to, like any other WiFi network. The hotspot will tell you the password. This was on my Android phone; I didn't have to get a separate app. And if I want to use all of my allotment in a single day, I can...though I can also set it to keep me from "overspending."

Edit to add: TMobile has some very good plans with data. Definitely call them about adding data/hotspot to yours, if it's not included already. I don't have TMobile for this phone, and the hotspot was part of the plan, which is one of the things I like about it.

Betsy


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## Toby

Thank you both. I am on my father's business plan, unlimited data with T-Mobile for my iphone. I think I read that T-Mobile added hotspot with my plan, but I will call them & find out. I'm not really interested in paying an extra monthly fee for a hotspot. If I had an Android Phone, buying an App would be worth it. That's pretty cool, though. I never knew that.


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## kwajkat

I have found that paying the extra $100 for the 3G/4G over the wi-fi only not worth it.  I looked at how much I would use the g part for downloads and how much of it would affect my data plan. While I had the 3G ipad I ended not using that part of it at all. Before I leave the house I make sure I download everything I might need that isn't already on the device. And yes I think I need as much of my stuff on my device that I can get on there, so I tend to get the larger ipad storage. To that I add a Seagate external wireless hard drive  when I am traveling. If I want to check my email etc I use  a hotspot like starbucks B&N etc. Now having said all that I do not do facebook, etc so that may make a difference.  

Right now I just have the ipad mini retina. I took back the Air because everytime I played music at the same time I played a game I would get a noticeable shock when I slid my finger across the screen.  Have never had that happen before on any other ipad just the two Airs.  Yes I miss the larger screen of the Air when watching movies but overall the mini fits my needs quite well. 

If I use a stylus I use the zoo gue ones when they have them on sale. They are nice, work well with everything and I like have the ballpoint pen part especially when I go to meetings, One stylus with pen better than carrying a stylus and a pen!


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## Betsy the Quilter

My co-mod Ann turned me on to these pen/stylus combinations:
Stylus with Ball Point Pen (5 Pack) 

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington

Betsy the Quilter said:


> My co-mod Ann turned me on to these pen/stylus combinations:
> Stylus with Ball Point Pen (5 Pack)
> 
> Betsy


 I really like these! I like a click pen as I can manipulate it with one hand -- a twist pen or one with a cover requires two hands.

Most pens with stylii have the pen at one end and the stylus at the other which means it has to be either twist or have a cover. 

THESE have a small hole in the stylus tip which the pen tip goes through when you click for pen mode. When you click the pen tip back in, it works as a stylus!

NO, the pen point doesn't come out past the barrell of the pen, no matter how hard you press! 

Also, the stylus tip is smaller than usual which I like as well.

I carry one in my purse so that when I have to sign something on an a screen -- as is typical at craft fairs -- I can use the stylus instead.


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## Toby

Thanks for answering! Happy to hear that.


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