# Credit Card Fraud This Just Happened! A Cautionary Tale



## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

Hi All,

Yesterday I went online to check my balance before I paid some bills. As I went through my charges, I noticed 3 to a company called "Lyft" that I did not recognize, then two large payments made to a Capital One account which I don't have. Over 1000.00 in all! I got on the phone with my bank canceled the card and was eventually able to get a temporary credit and an investigation into the charges. I also had a pretty good ideal where the culprit got my card number. None of the charges were made with a card swipe, just the number. "Lyft" it turns out is a taxi type company similar to Uber and my bank told me only a number was entered no swipe was done. 

The same day the two credit card payments were made, I had gone to a local Urgent Care office for an infected finger. This is the only time my card has actually left my hand in any recent transactions. Now I have bought some items online so it could have been that, I also used it a slightly suspect gas station. However I think the timing of it all and the fact that the Lyft rides were local makes the Urgent Care the best bet imo. I did report it to my local police, a sheriff came over and took the report. I printed out the transactions, which all have numbers and info on the Urgent Care place. I also called and spoke to the manager there. I just hope they investigate so it does not happen to anyone else. I am sure if it was a person that worked there, then this was not their first time.

My Mother had her identity stolen just after going to a new Doctor and filling out all the info including her SS#! The UC I went to asked for this too, but I did not give it to them. Most of these places only use it for filing or something so just refuse. They do not need it!

Another interesting note, the Sheriff asked for my email address and my Facebook account! I thought that was odd, she said she understood, it did seem personal but that it had become part of their procedures to make sure the victim was on the up and up. I just thought that was quite interesting how much FB has become a part of our culture and our very personas. 

I will never hand this card over to another person again. I actually have another account I use for restaurants and stuff like this that I keep very little money in. I made the mistake of trusting... I just feel lucky that I caught it. These charges were all done over a week ago, why they stopped when they did I don't know. The Sheriff believes that wanted to keep it on the down low so they could use it again. Possibly. I am a freelancer and had just gotten paid for a big job. Had it been the week before they would have been out of luck LOL! 

My advice:
Be diligent and check your balances & statements carefully. 
Do not give your number out over the phone, no one from your bank will call asking for this (my friend's elderly Dad has been scammed multiple times from these type of scammers), if they are legit they have your info already!  
If it does happen, make a police report, this will help you if your bank questions your claims.
Don't allow sites to store your CC info (my only exception to this is Amazon)
Do not carry your Social Security card in you wallet (amazing how many people still do this) or write it into any forms unless absolutely mandatory. 
Be very careful before handing your card over in a restaurant or anywhere else where it will be out of your sight.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

While your warning is absolutely valid, it sounds to me like your issue was not with a CREDIT card but with a DEBIT card. Not sure it makes much difference, really, but the protections for consumers are different for credit vs debit cards as far as how much liability you have if they're stolen and used.

For credit cards, your liability is limited to $50. If your credit card number is stolen, but not the card, you are not liable for unauthorized use.

For debit cards, your liability is limited to $50 if you report it within 2 days, $500 if you report it within 60 days, or the full value of your account if you report it after that. IF someone makes unauthorized transactions with your debit card _number_, but your card is not lost, you are not liable for those transactions if you report them within 60 days of your statement being sent to you.

In either case your liability is ZERO if you report it before any unauthorized charges are actually made.

Bottom line: pay attention to your account balances, review your statements when they come -- or don't blow off checking them on line -- and make sure any charges/debits are familiar.


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes Ann, it was a debit card which is a bit scarier to me since it pulls from my actual checking account funds and it was just my number. Thanks for all that info, very good to know!


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

For this exact reason, I no longer use my debit card except to get cash from my bank's cash machine. I had to get used to having a large balance in my checking account at the end of the month.....and a whopper of a charge card bill.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Cuechick said:


> Yes Ann, it was a debit card which is a bit scarier to me since it pulls from my actual checking account funds and it was just my number. Thanks for all that info, very good to know!


You didn't know? For those liability reasons, I have _never_ had and _never_ will have a debit card. Debit cards kinda give out easy access to your bank account.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Sandpiper said:


> You didn't know? For those liability reasons, I have _never_ had and _never_ will have a debit card. Debit cards kinda give out easy access to your bank account.


That seems a kind of drastic response -- if you are aware of and know the risks, it's a perfectly viable method of payment. But everyone has to manage their money the way that works best for them. 

I have a debit card tied to my checking account. It's a critical piece of my every day money management, because I don't want to carry around huge amounts of cash, and it's a pain most places, any more, to write a check. I keep track of when and where I use it, and I review my statements monthly -- and on line more often. Minimal risk, in my opinion, for a huge amount of convenience.

Sure, I could use a credit card instead, but I was raised that you don't buy food on credit.  Mostly, the debit card helps me stick to a fixed budget, rather than just spending willy nilly and then hoping I've not overspent and have to dig into savings to pay the CC bill next month.

For those who are worried about the access to a checking account, however, there are a number of 'loadable' debit card products that one can use instead. You basically load a fixed amount so you can't spend more than that until you re-load it. It may be _linked_ to a checking account, but the account can't be accessed by the card; the user only has access to the currently loaded balance, and re-loading has to be initiated from the other end. This sort of thing is also a really useful way to teach kids to budget, or to put money aside for something special like a vacation or major purchase. The money is readily available when you need it, but if you don't carry the card around, you won't spend it before hand!

I also know folks who use a re-loadable debit card for all on line purchases on the theory that if it's compromised, there's a very limited amount available. One person I know, when she shops on line, figures out how much she'll be spending, and then loads the card. THEN completes the transaction. So the usual balance on the card is only about $10 but when she wants to buy something she'll put on the amount she needs.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

I have both types of card, but given a choice always use the credit card because there is a third party standing between me and the (possibly) fraudulent transaction. Visa always will respond and stop transactions that are dodgy. I've even been queried about legit transactions when an unusual transaction occurs.

Having said all this. We have chip and pin over here in the UK. That helps a lot.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> That seems a kind of drastic response -- if you are aware of and know the risks, it's a perfectly viable method of payment. But everyone has to manage their money the way that works best for them.
> 
> I have a debit card tied to my checking account. It's a critical piece of my every day money management, because I don't want to carry around huge amounts of cash, and it's a pain most places, any more, to write a check. I keep track of when and where I use it, and I review my statements monthly -- and on line more often. Minimal risk, in my opinion, for a huge amount of convenience.
> 
> ...


I don't buy food on credit either. I have always and always will pay cash. (For some reason, said that to checker when I was paying for my groceries very recently when person in front of me was having a problem with debit card.) I've never spent willy-nilly with the credit card. Pay the balance every month. I've never paid a penny in interest on a credit card. Get a bill -- pay it. Budget and self control.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I think this is a great topic that cannot be discussed too much.
Many people have not been given a very good financial education.
And this makes these people especially vulnerable to these scams.
Technology change creates new ways one can "lose" funds, so you have to keep abreast of recent changes.
I use my debit card now just for ATM withdrawals.
I like the pre-loaded cards, but don't use one yet.
And I do charge even my groceries (it gives me a great analysis from the credit card company).
But the secret, as mentioned, is to pay entire balance each month.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Because of the liability differences for debit cards, I refused to have one for years. Eventually my credit union refused to issue a non-debit card to use the ATM, so I now have a debit card, but I literally have never used it except in an ATM. For many years, I've bought nearly everything (groceries too) with credit cards, paid off in full every month with an automatic payment, and pocketed a small rebate or benefit. Credit card companies must hate me!   Discover started the rebate thing to my knowledge, but I used a GM Card for many years and now mostly use the Chase Amazon card, though I still have my Discover Card and USAA.

I've only had attempted fraud once, when a small charge was put on my card hours after I used it at a Popeye's Fried Chicken, of all places!  USAA was on top of things and flagged the charge the same evening. They seem to be pretty vigilant. Twice I've ordered things online from overseas retailers (one in Canada--not exactly overseas, and once in Australia). Both times my phone rang with the fraud alert literally as I was clicking "buy" on my computer! The charges were legitimate though, so of course I told them to go ahead.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

One of the reasons I have switched to using the credit card only, besides the security issue, is that I get reward points on the credit card that gives me many airmiles to use as I want. So now, I even put my groceries on the credit card. However, I have to be careful to pay it all off monthly. Prior to using the credit card for most purchases, I used the debit card. Now I only use the debit card to get cash. I don't carry much cash, but if I am out of town and out of cash, the debit card is mighty handy. I also have a Chase Amazon Card that is "saved" on Amazon. I don't carry the card with me, but it makes it very easy to buy from Amazon. Everyone has their own system of making purchases. We all need to be vigilant, no matter what system. Losing cash is never recoverable.


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

Sandpiper said:


> You didn't know? For those liability reasons, I have _never_ had and _never_ will have a debit card. Debit cards kinda give out easy access to your bank account.


What I didn't know was there was a difference if your number was stolen as apposed to the actual card. I'm not sure why that is but it does benefit me in this situation. I get everyone's concerns and may limit my use of the debit card online but I am ok using it for groceries and gas etc... It is worth the convenience for me. I think the biggest danger is handing it over to a waiter or waitress or anyone else who will handle it out of your line of vision.

I actually have a swiper for my phone that I use to accept payments for my Paypal account. There is no way that I can see to abuse this as long as the person is standing right here and I hand the card right back (not that I ever would of course!). I have even had to enter a card manually and still, unless you have a photographic memory...

I now use Apple Pay now when I can, which I think removes the danger of using a tampered with swiper. I look forward to when everyone accepts this form of payment and you no longer need to carry around a physical card!


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Cuechick said:


> I now use Apple Pay now when I can, which I think removes the danger of using a tampered with swiper. I look forward to when everyone accepts this form of payment and you no longer need to carry around a physical card!


As I understand it, Apple Pay doesn't involve your CC number in the transaction. This means that if the retailer's payment records are hacked, your card isn't vulnerable. This is great, but as cuechick said, it is not accepted very many places. I use it at Walgreens and McDonald's and Best Buy whenever I go there, but it's pretty thin in other places. Weirdly, I was able to use it in a taxicab in New Orleans recently!

There apparently are not a lot of people using ApplePay. Several times I have had the cashier react with undisguised shock when I used it! I understand that Samsung has a similar or perhaps better version on their newest phones.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Jane917 said:


> We all need to be vigilant, no matter what system. Losing cash is never recoverable.


Which is why I don't generally carry much. . . . only enough for incidental type stuff. 



Cuechick said:


> What I didn't know was there was a difference if your number was stolen as apposed to the actual card.


I didn't know that either -- but it makes sense if you think about it. If someone has stolen just the number there's no way you're going to know until they try to use it. Whereas if they steal the actual card, presumably you'd notice it gone.

I think with debit cards it's important how the bank and credit union handle things too. We're with Navy Federal Credit Union and they respond very quickly to problems, sometimes even notifying us if they notice activity that seems unusual. And, like I say, I'm checking nearly daily so would notice pretty quick if something weird was going on. 

As to the 'pay by phone' schemes. . . . some financial institutions have similar systems for their customers . . . I think both USAA and NFCU have a system you can set up so you can pay by phone, essentially using your card, but without giving out the number. I expect other banks do as well.


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes, I get that is why. I just saw a friend post on FB that his number was stolen and used overseas to create fake cards. I would assume as long as he still has his actual card he would fall under the same protection. 

I am also a little concerned that some payments I made after this, using my checking account associated with this card are not showing up? I will have to call tomorrow to see what is up with that. They did not say I cold not use this account, just the card was canceled... hmmm? I wonder if they put some kind of freeze on it? I am very lucky to have a 2nd account with another card. I have to wait up to 10 days for a replacement and I know for other people who don't have a backup, that really makes it tough, especially this time of year!

Ann, my  Trader Joe's takes Apple Pay so I am set! LOL!


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2015)

A correction: a debit card has the EXACT same protections as a credit card when you run it as a credit card, i.e. it has the VISA/MasterCard logo and you sign for it.  The idea that it is somehow less secure is a long need to die hold over from the very old days of banking.  The important thing in both cases is, as the OP noted, to regularly check your accounts and to report fraudulent activity as soon as you notice it.  I'd also recommend freezing all of your credit reports unless you are getting ready to apply for a mortgage or something.  Free for some states, about $30 in others for all three bureaus, it's a small way to reduce the damage identity theft can cause.

I would never ever use it as a debit card except, of course, pulling out cash at the ATM.  If you put in your PIN number when checking out, then it's run as a debit and will have different protections, which you need to check with your bank about.  Some banks only do the minimal legal requirements while others give you full protection.  With the new chip cards, these will be even more secure, though not all banks haven't flipped over yet.

I personally never use credit cards other than they very occasional use of a Discover card for the reward because I've spent too many years getting out debt to keep playing with the risk.  When you use a debit card, you're actually spending money you actually have versus borrowing in hopes you'll pay it back later.  And yes, I know, many people argue that "they pay the balance in full every month", but it only takes one accident or emergency to throw that off, and for me at least, I'm looking forwarding to being completely debt free rather than constantly owing people money.  Even with my Discover card, I literally only use it if I have the funds to pay it and schedule the payment to the card at the same time I'm checking out and just use it to rewards points to use on Amazon


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FYI, the information about liability limits that I posted before came from this site:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards

I'm not sure that signing really does, effectively, make it a credit card for purposes of liability protection.  I found this on a major credit/id protection site (AllClearID):



> When using a debit card you have two options: enter a PIN or run the card as credit and sign. Both are considered debit transactions and offer the same basic protections in cases of identity theft or fraud.


And this page from the FDIC spells out differences but makes no comment that protections are different if you sign vs use a PIN when paying by debit:

https://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/information/ncpw/cardstopten.html

Better Business Bureau also doesn't indicate any difference as to liability -- just debit vs credit and no comment on debit with signature rather than pin:

http://www.bbb.org/blog/2013/11/do-debit-cards-and-credit-cards-hav-the-same-protection/


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2015)

Ah, yep, you're right Ann, it looks like it doesn't matter now how you run it, though otherwise the protections are the same.  The only difference is with your debit card, the law codifies the need to report a missing/stolen card ASAP to avoid additional liability, versus a credit card, which makes total sense, really - if you find your card missing you should report it ASAP, not wait days or weeks ).


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2015)

Cuechick said:


> Yes, I get that is why. I just saw a friend post on FB that his number was stolen and used overseas to create fake cards. I would assume as long as he still has his actual card he would fall under the same protection.


Yes, though now that he knows, he needs to report it as soon as possible. They will cancel the card pretty much immediately and issue him a new number and card.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Haven't had an ATM card for many years.  Once a week trip to the bank (two blocks away) to get cash.  I make sure to carry enough cash for whatever kind of shopping I'm doing.  Only once, maybe 15 - 20 years ago, someone fraudulently used my credit card number.  I'd bought something in a Bose store in the Chicago 'burbs.  Just a few days later, purchase on the card was made in a Radio Shack store in Wisconsin.  Chase called me.  No, that was not me.  

First time I went shopping in local Apple Store for MacBook Pro, etc., etc., etc. my Chase card was declined.    I called Chase while in the store.  Yes, it was me doing big-time shopping.  Transaction was completed.    Now I call Chase whenever I know I'll be charging a larger amount, e.g. Apple again and the dentist.  (Making one charge payment was cheapest WTG for me.)


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## Cuechick (Oct 28, 2008)

Anma Natsu said:


> Yes, though now that he knows, he needs to report it as soon as possible. They will cancel the card pretty much immediately and issue him a new number and card.


He'd already reported it, third rodeo for him!

It is interesting how everyone has their own system that works for them and makes them comfortable.


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