# Why you should raise your prices



## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices. 

Here's why.

Let's say I work 40 hours a week on a new book and it takes me 8 weeks to do it. That's 320 hours. Minimum wage in Washington state where I live is $9.19. I sell my books for $4.99, of which I get approximately $3.46 each. I have to make $2940.80 off the book to make minimum wage. That means I have to sell 850 books.

40 x 8 = 320
320 x $9.19 = $2940.80
3.46 per book = 850 books - and that's just to make minimum wage.

I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to work for pennies. Sure, you have to build a reader base and maybe lower prices is the way to do that, but once you've "made it," raise your prices. Set a higher standard for good books.

You deserve it.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

I don't know about you, but I plan to sell at least 850 copies of each book over their lifetime...


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.


I agree with you. Higher priced books sell better so I don't sell anything less than $2.99 and don't exceed $4.99 since is a price that works for novels.

Books that sell too low are frequently regarded as low quality.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Rinelle Grey said:


> I don't know about you, but I plan to sell at least 850 copies of each book over their lifetime...


This. 1,000% this.

I quit my day job with a novelette priced at .99 cents. How many copies would I have sold if I priced it at $9.99? Heck, at $2.99, I would have had a pile of 1-star reviews claiming to have loved the story but felt let down because of the length.

The way to sell a LOT of books is to make customers so happy with their purchase that they tell everyone they know to check it out. Part of that equation is VALUE. Value is a quotient of price and entertainment. You can control both. Why wouldn't you control them to your advantage?

But if writers want to keep charging what they feel their time is worth and hoping the world will one day agree, that's another option. Just not one that I've seen pay off nearly as often.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> I don't know about you, but I plan to sell at least 850 copies of each book over their lifetime...


This is not really what Marti is talking about.

At $4.99 you need to sell 850 books a month to make a minimum wage, at $2.99, you need to sell twice that many. Are you going to sell twice as many for half the price? I have found not.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> This. 1,000% this.
> 
> I quit my day job with a novelette priced at .99 cents. How many copies would I have sold if I priced it at $9.99? Heck, at $2.99, I would have had a pile of 1-star reviews claiming to have loved the story but felt let down because of the length.
> 
> ...


Hugh, I can't, not for the life of me, sell books for 99c. Not because I have any moral objection to it, but because people don't buy them. I think you rode the 99c wave, but that beast has well and truly bolted out the gates.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

I've done the opposite of most: when a book's not selling I raise the price and forget about it. I don't think a lot of people are going to by my more obscure non-fiction books even if they were at $0.99, and I don't want to spend the time or money promoting them. So I raise the prices and get about the same sales.

Sometimes I only get the crossed out line as SW, or usually Sony, will be lower. Sometimes I think that's even better in a way.

Mainly I just don't care. Some titles I just don't care about, there, I said it. What I mean is these titles sit there and never see the light of an email campaign. And if a reader doesn't care about it fine, I'll just leave it there. Who knows what's going to happen months or years from now, but lately I've refused to sell myself short.

http://www.bigskywords.com/1/post/2013/10/saying-to-hell-with-your-ebook-prices.html


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> This is not really what Marti is talking about.
> 
> At $4.99 you need to sell 850 books a month to make a minimum wage, at $2.99, you need to sell twice that many. Are you going to sell twice as many for half the price? I have found not.


I guess it's variable, then. Some people seem to be able to raise prices and not see a drop-off in sales. Others see a major decline and have to beat a hasty retreat.

It seems like authors are worried what other authors are doing with their prices. Why? Are they devaluing literature? I've never bought that argument. If, as they say, shoppers equate low prices with low quality, then look at the discounters as having removed themselves from the marketplace. Less competition.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I calibrate my pricing based on the tested and confirmed price elasticity of each one*. A new release means guesswork, but I have data from other titles.

*This has nothing to do with my self-esteem, self-worth, or number of hours the book took to write.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> Hugh, I can't, not for the life of me, sell books for 99c. Not because I have any moral objection to it, but because people don't buy them. I think you rode the 99c wave, but that beast has well and truly bolted out the gates.


I disagree. At least as a loss leader I'm doing fine with .99c. If I put my first book at 4.99 my ranking would tank.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> ...


Tempted to ask but won't across your books, not counting your freebies are you at minimum yet? Also I looked and from the book rankings you seem to have a good follow through.


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## StephenEngland (Nov 2, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> This. 1,000% this.
> 
> I quit my day job with a novelette priced at .99 cents. How many copies would I have sold if I priced it at $9.99? Heck, at $2.99, I would have had a pile of 1-star reviews claiming to have loved the story but felt let down because of the length.
> 
> ...


Agreed, Hugh. If you're looking at writing as a minimum-wage job, you are, in my opinion, looking at it all wrong.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

I won't bother giving my POV on pricing. It is well documented and would be redundant here.

What is worthy of note is the feedback I've been receiving lately. For the first time in two years, people are complaining about my prices. In the old days, I would receive a snip here or there. Lately, it has become more common.

I'm not sure what that means or why, just commenting that the situation seems to have changed in the last few months.

Still, they're buying my books.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

While I agree that you shouldn't under-price your book, I think that you're looking at the value of your writing wrong.

You're not working for a wage, you're creating a capital investment.  The value is calculated by the return you get on it.  A 30-year T-Bill bond will give you about a 3 percent annual return right now.  Most financial planners consider a 5 percent return to be normal on a reasonably conservative retirement fund.

So if you get $300 in a year from a property, that's the same as a $10,000 bond.  Or $6000 in a retirement annuity.

Of course, most bonds and annuities are made up of very reliable properties and books aren't so reliable, so if you compare it to return on an average growth stock portfolio, it's only worth about $3000.

So, your calculation of minimum wage might be right for the work you do on a novel, but that's assuming a return of $300 a year on it.  If you're earning more than that, it's worth more.

Camille


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

I price everything, ebooks and paperbacks so that I earn $2 per sale. At my volume, I make more than enough money to live quite comfortably, even during the slowest times of the year. Since I plan to continue writing in the same story universe with many of the same characters, I have no plans to raise my price as long as I maintain the same word counts and release schedule. (Which I fully intend to do at this point.)

I work an average of 30 hrs per week, with both writing and managing the business side of things. Raising my prices would be greedy, and would be taking advantage of my customers.

There is no set rule of pricing. You price what works for you, and only you. You only devalue your work if you sell it for a price that does not sustain you. Be it 100,000 units at $0.99 or 1,000 units at $2.99 or 100 units at $5.99. The revenue stream is what matters, not the price per sale.

Raising your price does not make your product worthy of that price. You do not set your price based on your perceived value. You find a compromise between market trends, your monetary needs, and what the customer is willing to spend on your books. Balance it correctly and it equals the best amount of money per month that your products can generate.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> I quit my day job with a novelette priced at .99 cents. How many copies would I have sold if I priced it at $9.99? Heck, at $2.99, I would have had a pile of 1-star reviews claiming to have loved the story but felt let down because of the length.
> 
> The way to sell a LOT of books is to make customers so happy with their purchase that they tell everyone they know to check it out. Part of that equation is VALUE. Value is a quotient of price and entertainment. You can control both. Why wouldn't you control them to your advantage?
> 
> But if writers want to keep charging what they feel their time is worth and hoping the world will one day agree, that's another option. Just not one that I've seen pay off nearly as often.


In total agreement. Intro pricing lets new readers take a chance and see if they'll like you. If they can go on and buy everything else you've written without breaking the bank--bonus.

The right price is the one where your books climb the rankings and you make the most (which you'll only do if your customers perceive value at that price). Pricing works best when it's based on what customers think, not on what you think.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

And remember, when everyone's driving on the interstate this Thursday, maybe it'd be better for you to take one of the less-traveled roads.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

Something to keep in mind when calculating a writing wage is that a normal hourly wage is paid for and that's it.  You don't get paid a second time for that hour worked.  Where we own the property and are earning royalties, these hours spent are paid over and over with each sale.

If I work 400 hours at a $10/hour job, I get paid $4,000 and that's it.  I don't receive any additional money on that time ever again.

I spend 400 hours creating a novel and publish it.  I get a monthly check, potentially for life, for that one 400 hour effort. Every royalty cent paid makes that 400 hour period more and more valuable.  It's not static like working for the man is.  It may take a day, week, year, or decade for enough royalties to come in to match a $10/hour effort, but that's an chance and investment in myself that I'm willing to take.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

2 people who responded to you may or may not know what they are talking about.   They are 3 and 7 in kindle e-book sci fi and 7 and 10 in books sci fi.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> 2 people who responded to you may or may not know what they are talking about. They are 3 and 7 in kindle e-book sci fi and 7 and 10 in books sci fi.


What sort of cryptic smackdown is this?

Have you checked Joe's sales at $9.99?

Not everyone sells well at Amazon, either. My Amazon sales are shit, but I sell a lot better at Kobo (AUS, NZ and Canada, and you can only see those rankings in those countries). Everyone here is just sharing their experiences. For everything that works for someone, you will find it won't work for someone else.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> 2 people who responded to you may or may not know what they are talking about. They are 3 and 7 in kindle e-book sci fi and 7 and 10 in books sci fi.


Not sure I see the relevance. Surely ranking is related to more than just price of the book.


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

Martitalbott said:


> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> ...


Bad way of looking at it. (What if the choice was 850 books at $4.99 or 85,000 books at 99c?)

You should price based on maximizing your income from your books. It's different for everyone whether that means setting several books free, or most of your books at 99c, or pricing all your books at 9.99.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Price fight!!!

I don't think I even have an opinion on what the "right" price is anymore. It's highly conditional on not just the author, and not just the book, but also where that book currently is visibility-wise and what you might stand to gain by monkeying with the price.

I've got a box set of the first three books in my series. In my head, I think of the "list price" as $6, but when I ran a $0.99 sale on it, it got all sticky. It's selling through to #4 and making my readership go boom in a way that will hopefully pay off with the later books. Devoid of any context, charging $0.99 for a box set comprising most of your series sounds dumb, but in its current context, charging _more_ than $0.99 seems like the crazy idea!

Higher prices are nice, but price isn't a philosophy, it's a tool. Probably one that is most like a Swiss army knife.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Joe_Nobody said:


> I won't bother giving my POV on pricing. It is well documented and would be redundant here.
> 
> What is worthy of note is the feedback I've been receiving lately. For the first time in two years, people are complaining about my prices. In the old days, I would receive a snip here or there. Lately, it has become more common.
> 
> ...


I'm increasingly noticing trad pub books in my genre being priced very low -- usually as a temporary sale. Maybe that has something to do with it. Indie books have been an exceptionally good value, but we're losing some of that advantage.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Becca Mills said:


> I'm increasingly noticing trad pub books in my genre being priced very low -- usually as a temporary sale. Maybe that has something to do with it. Indie books have been an exceptionally good value, but we're losing some of that advantage.


Yep my jaw nearly dropped when I saw that Brandon Sanderson's 1200 page book was being dropped to $2.99. Don't know for how long the reduction will last _or_ how long trad pub can keep up the steep drops when they have some many people on their payrolls but it's interesting to watch.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

I release at $4.99 then a few weeks later reduce to $3.99. Book One is at $2.99 and my 3 book bundle $8.99. These prices work for me and are in line with other indie writers at my level of sales and popularity. I could charge more and people would still buy my work, but I feel that I make a decent amount while giving the reader a good value. 
I do object to a writer undervaluing themselves. There is nothing wrong with a .99 special, but if you believe that is all your hard work is worth on a regular basis, you should look back on all the effort that went into writing and publishing it. This is also assuming we are talking about a book and not a short story. 
Make a living, not a killing. But never forget that what you do has value.


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## AriadneW (Feb 16, 2013)

There's no real right answer to this, what works for one will not work for another.

I've just gone through this type of exercise with my new release. Last time, I launched at 99c, sold 700 copies in 6 weeks and had nowhere to move on price to offer any incentive to keep things going. This time I launched at full price, sold nearly as many in the first two days as I did last time, will have made the same amount of money as I did in 6 weeks previously and have room to move to push things along. 

At the same time, 99c pricing has been kind to me at other times (permafree has helped) and I think if you can get the volume it would work great.


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

The bottom line is something no one wants to look at or admit, but which I will voice here:

* All books are not equal in quality, in production value, or in appeal
* All books have not been properly targeted to the audience most likely to read it's particular genre or style
* All books don't have the correct cover, description, or story elements to properly capture the audience it's targeted toward.
* All books just aren't equal in writing style or quality. You could be a brilliant writer, but your style, or your plot, may not appeal to the audience you are targeting.
* All books just simply can't command a higher price, at least not in the beginning anyway.

No one can come and make the blanket statement that "my books sell at X amount of dollars so you should do the same" simply because people buying are buying YOUR book for a reason, not because they are mindless drones buying anything they see for a certain price. If they are willing to pay a higher price for one particular book, that means that that particular author has struck gold somehow. That in no way means that I have managed to do the same, and if I want to sell books, then I bloody well better be willing to do what it takes to sell them. If you have a fan base, you can sell at a higher price. But you HAVE TO HAVE A FAN BASE FIRST. It's easy to have an ego and suggest that your work is too good or your time is too precious to sell at 99 cents, but if your mother and your cousin are the only one to bought your book, then your ego is worth less than the amount of money you made on sales from your two relatives.

I don't mean to be harsh, but everyone's individual pricing policy is valid for them, and anyone who tries to tell you differently is full of it. Do whatever you find you have to do to get sales cranking. If you have to start at 99 cents, you can always raise prices on your subsequent books. Do what works best for you, and leave everyone else's choices alone.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

JimJohnson said:


> Not sure I see the relevance. Surely ranking is related to more than just price of the book.


that was author ranking and both of their prices are all over the place. i just thought it was a cool fact.


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## writerofthesky (Jul 12, 2013)

It's really what the market will bear. Though, I'd guess more often then not it's more than 99c (for a full length novel at least) since most trad pub books are at least 5+.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

First, you have to make people trust you as author and make them want to read your books. When they do, they'll pay as much as tradepub. I look at the pricing of the top 100 in my genre at Kobo (because that's where I sell most), and price under that. 

For name-building and gaining reader trust, I prefer to work with permafree, since 99c really, really doesn't work for me (personally). It may work for others, though. Not saying anything about that.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> that was author ranking and both of their prices are all over the place. i just thought it was a cool fact.


OK sorry I misunderstood you. The pricing _is_ all over the place. Different things work for different people.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Wansit said:


> Yep my jaw nearly dropped when I saw that Brandon Sanderson's 1200 page book was being dropped to $2.99. Don't know for how long the reduction will last _or_ how long trad pub can keep up the steep drops when they have some many people on their payrolls but it's interesting to watch.


Yup. I noticed that one, too. But look even more deeply into his offerings on Amazon. Back when I read the Mistborn books, they were all a flat $7.99 for the Kindle edition. Now I'm seeing 5.99. A few of his other things are 4.99. The Wheel of Time stuff is still $7.99, but almost everything's been knocked down notably.


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## S. Shine (Jan 14, 2013)

SBJones said:


> Something to keep in mind when calculating a writing wage is that a normal hourly wage is paid for and that's it. You don't get paid a second time for that hour worked. Where we own the property and are earning royalties, these hours spent are paid over and over with each sale.
> 
> If I work 400 hours at a $10/hour job, I get paid $4,000 and that's it. I don't receive any additional money on that time ever again.
> 
> I spend 400 hours creating a novel and publish it. I get a monthly check, potentially for life, for that one 400 hour effort. Every royalty cent paid makes that 400 hour period more and more valuable. It's not static like working for the man is. It may take a day, week, year, or decade for enough royalties to come in to match a $10/hour effort, but that's an chance and investment in myself that I'm willing to take.


Funny how this is ignored as it nails it.

The whole comparison to minimum wage in the OP makes no sense at all. None. Minimum wage while working for the man is static and self-publishing and its proceeds are dynamic. World of difference. To compare one to the other is like comparing apples and oranges.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

So far, the two most accurate statements on this thread have been the ones about writing being an investment, and pricing being like a Swiss army knife.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

This thread made me go look at some book pricing.    It looks like it comes down to genre more than anything else.  I was also surprised that one author was not higher on e-books but I think his audience still likes paper/hard backs.  If I was going to market a book tomorrow, the first thing I would do is look at who is high in that particular genre and hopefully either pick their brains or just post stalk them here to learn what I could do to maybe increase my sales.  I would also look close at pricing in that genre.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

JimJohnson said:


> Not sure I see the relevance. Surely ranking is related to more than just price of the book.


Yeah, I was trying to figure out that too. But I think there is a word missing or something.

The thing is, neither the question nor the answers here have anything to do with relative success (i.e. how to hit a best seller list). It's about math.

And whether hitting a best seller list is a good measure of overall math here is a good subject for discussion. (Though right now, probably not fruitful, because nobody here has the kind of long term numbers you'd need to consider: what's the long term earning arc of a best seller vs. a steady seller? Long-tail vs. short tail numbers, etc.)

Camille


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Greg Banks said:


> The bottom line is something no one wants to look at or admit, but which I will voice here:
> 
> * All books are not equal in quality, in production value, or in appeal
> * All books have not been properly targeted to the audience most likely to read it's particular genre or style
> ...


A little.. blunt.. but pretty dang on point. 

The way things are structured, I think everyone would prefer to sell full-length books somewhere between "fair" and "whatever I can get away with," i.e. in Amazon's $2.99 - 9.99 band. But not all of us are there yet. Often, $0.99 is one way to get to that Promised Land.

If you've built up demand for your series, that demand is going to be relatively inelastic, right? Doesn't matter if some goofus down the street is selling his stuff for $0.99. They want _yours_.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

daringnovelist said:


> Yeah, I was trying to figure out that too. But I think there is a word missing or something.
> 
> The thing is, neither the question nor the answers here have anything to do with relative success (i.e. how to hit a best seller list). It's about math.
> 
> ...


I think for steady sellers JA Konrath posted his numbers on his blog for the last 3 years. Not sure if that would be long tail, short tail or somewhere in between.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> If you've built up demand for your series, that demand is going to be relatively inelastic, right? Doesn't matter if some goofus down the street is selling his stuff for $0.99. They want _yours_.


Right, books aren't fungible. Hey, it's not a real pricing thread without someone using the word fungible!


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

I increased the prices of episodes 3-8 and two-episode packages in my series, while adding the second book and the 1+2 package to perma-free (joining Book 1, which has been free for over a year). Customers still pay the same amount for the whole series, but I take home a little bit more because of the switch from 35% royalty to 70%. Sales have not slowed down, and I've had no refunds and no complaints. In fact, sales have actually increased, which tells me I was underpricing, something I was already aware of and was doing in order to build enthusiasm for the series. The increase in sales may or may not reflect the misconception that I had to underprice. Who knows. Every one of us must try different things, ever even for different books. What works for one of my books may not for another; what works for me isn't a formula for you.

In the end, I'm hoping to be able to build enough of a brand and a following that I can charge according to the Apple pricing model (ie., overinflated). Then I'll price competitively.


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## Mike_Author (Oct 19, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> ...


This is all good in theory and I for one would love to see higher prices - 99c or 1.99 for an ebook is way too low.

However, the price of ebooks is not determined by the number of hours you put in - the price is determined by supply and demand. People set their prices at $x and if it sells well they can try a higher price. If you don't sell any or many units at $x then you will naturally drop your price to $y to stimulate sales. Some authors don't care about higher sales and will keep their prices at $x regardless. Others don't care about income and will put their books on perma free. If Amazon takes a stand and raises the minimum price, other stores will see it as an opportunity to grab market share at a lower price.

One of the pluses though, in terms of getting higher prices, is that a lot of ebook buyers tend to associate a higher price with higher quality. I have had books where I raised the price by quite a bit and the sales increased. Hopefully this becomes a stronger trend - this will see your wish come to fruition hopefully. Unfortunately, ebook publishing is now a classic long tail market which means - a LOT of people making a LITTLE bit of money. It's tough for many people to make minimum wage in a long tail market


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> I think for steady sellers JA Konrath posted his numbers on his blog for the last 3 years. Not sure if that would be long tail, short tail or somewhere in between.


But that's very short term. To really compare, you have to talk about lifetime arcs. I mean, indie publishing hasn't even been through a single 10-year arc (which is a common cycle length in publishing and entertainment).

The question I have in mind is, right now, like asking how many angels can dance on a head of a pin: We can run the math on a book which sells steadily for 30 years and never hits a best seller list vs. a book which hits the best seller lists and then drops slowly for 10 years. But we have no idea how common either situation will be in indie publishing, or how much control you have to pick one over the other as a strategy.

We know from traditional publishing that authors have often made a very good living under the radar for decades, but they usually start hitting the best seller lists later in life if they do. (Although unless you did some research, you wouldn't know how many continue to make a good living without ever hitting the best seller list. Especially given that those "steady sellers" often worked under several pseudonyms.) We know that it was common for people who fly high early in their career to give up when things slow down, even though they could be making a decent living like everyone else.

And this is true with actors and other creatives as well.

Ultimately, when I look at actors and old time writers with long careers, the people who do best are those who manage their money well regardless of whether they make it big or work steadily. Either group frequently end up in the poor house, and either can end up owning the world.

Those who manage well are very much aware of their wage, but not wrapped up in it, and they may plan for an unrealistic burst of success, they don't count on that either. They don't think short term.

Camille


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm not going to get into the pricing debate, I wanted to pop in and say that the math from the OP doesn't work.

One reason is that most authors here don't just write a book and publish it. There are other expenses involved: cover, formatting, editing, advertising. (Note: These are just examples of expenses, as not everyone pays money for all of these.) Those expenses have to be taken into account.

But the biggest reason is simply that publishing books is not an hourly job.

*You are a business owner. *

All business owners have to invest both time and money in their businesses.

Business owners don't think in terms of hourly wages. Their time is an investment.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> The way to sell a LOT of books is to make customers so happy with their purchase that they tell everyone they know to check it out.


Agreed.

Getting my books into as many hands as possible is the big picture for me. I sell my bundles at 3.99-4.99, and I get less of those sales for more profit. But what really makes me happy is when someone buys my .99 or 2.99 book, thinks it was a steal, and tells 10 friends. That's the sort of profit that is difficult to measure, but still great to have.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

SBJones said:


> Something to keep in mind when calculating a writing wage is that a normal hourly wage is paid for and that's it. You don't get paid a second time for that hour worked. Where we own the property and are earning royalties, these hours spent are paid over and over with each sale.
> 
> If I work 400 hours at a $10/hour job, I get paid $4,000 and that's it. I don't receive any additional money on that time ever again.
> 
> I spend 400 hours creating a novel and publish it. I get a monthly check, potentially for life, for that one 400 hour effort. Every royalty cent paid makes that 400 hour period more and more valuable. It's not static like working for the man is. It may take a day, week, year, or decade for enough royalties to come in to match a $10/hour effort, but that's an chance and investment in myself that I'm willing to take.


Totally agree with this. A sensible response to the OP, IMHO.

IMO, it's not the quantity of your writing time. It's the quality of your work.



Rykymus said:


> Raising your price does not make your product worthy of that price. You do not set your price based on your perceived value. You find a compromise between market trends, your monetary needs, and what the customer is willing to spend on your books. Balance it correctly and it equals the best amount of money per month that your products can generate.


Exactly. Just because an author thinks he/she "deserves" more for the book doesn't mean readers are going to buy it. This may be a reason for some poorly written commercial fiction selling way more than supposedly well-written literary fiction.

I've worked 17 years on numerous WIPs. It doesn't mean my soon-to-be published books are going to sell. I'm realistic about this. No one might buy any of my books (and I'll have to post to that thread about why things are not selling LOL). But I put in LOTS of writing hours over 17 years. But so what, right?! Publishing is a business, as we all know, and the business is about selling books. E.g. I saw James Patterson's hardcover books sold for $2 at the used store. Those hardcovers used to be listed for $25-$27. If they were signed, I'd have bought them just for the resale value


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Monique said:


> Right, books aren't fungible. Hey, it's not a real pricing thread without someone using the word fungible!


Fungible.
Like!


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Rykymus said:


> So far, the two most accurate statements on this thread have been the ones about writing being an investment, and pricing being like a Swiss army knife.


Like this one?









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190946271/


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

Interesting story:

My first book sold 1.5 copies/day at its peak with its old cover at $2.99. I COULD NOT sell that book at a higher price if my life depended on it.

Slapped a new cover on it and raised the price to $4.99... Now I'm moving 3-5 copies/day between Amazon and ARe. I haven't done ANY advertising since the new cover.

So, the moral of the story seems to be: people will pay more for a book wrapped in images of sexy, half-naked people grabbing each other.   I think...

Appearances might have something to do with what people will pay.


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## AutumnKQ (Jul 27, 2013)

Entrepreneurs (successful ones?) don't see things the same way an average hourly wage or salaried worker sees things. A person being paid a wage is being paid to do a job and go home. 

We're building businesses from scratch. We have to think long-term. Starting a business means putting in a lot of hours of work in, with no immediate pay. But the payoff if you do it right and if you succeed can be enormous--much larger than the payoff you can get working for someone else.  It's a big mental shift when you start your own business.

I'm all about charging what I think my stories are worth, but I will, of course, look at what readers are willing to pay and make sure those things line up. Pricing can be difficult.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

I don't work on wages. Selling books doesn't work that way. But, if you want to do maths...

If one book sells 30 copies a month (on average) for 20 years, and I make $2 a book (priced at $2.99), then I make $14,000. For 8 weeks work. I like those wages. And of course, there's no reason that a book that has been selling well will suddenly stop.

I admit, I'm biased. I'm writing my book while my 'wages' are being paid by stock photography. I haven't uploaded a photo in months, but I keep pulling in a monthly paycheck. I see books working like this.

And that's before I even get into the fact that I'd be writing these books whether I got paid or not, because I love writing.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Did a little more research on prices.  Here is what I learned.  At least 3 authors that are in the top 10 in their respective genres have varying prices on their books.  So I am guessing that they do know about pricing and marketing.
Oh and Camille, self publishing has not been around long enough to know what is going to happen in the future.  This will be interesting to keep watching.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

So, I made you talk about something interesting for a change. I win. (I know, I have a strange sense of humor.)

I did the lower prices for the first two and a half years as an Indie author, raised them a year ago and never looked back. Yes, I run specials and I do have two permafree books, but I've only heard one person complain about the price. Before I raised the price (2 1/2 yrs ago), I sold 38,301. Since (1 yr) - 32,898. Yep, more books etc, but a lot more money.

Most of you missed the last sentence - after you've made it - raise your prices. I truly believe there is a stigma attached to cheap books, and that higher prices moves you into a group of readers that will no longer look at cheap books.

Think I should look at this as a long term venture? I'm 68. Long term might not be that long for me. I want my minimum wage before I die, if you don't mind.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> So, I made you talk about something interesting for a change. I win. (I know, I have a strange sense of humor.)


Well, it's been an interesting conversation, but perhaps it would have been better framed as a question. The nice thing about being in business for yourself is that you get to make your own decisions, test things for yourself.

(Of course, the bad thing about being in business for yourself is that you have to make your own decisions--and live with the consequences! But I'm pretty confident in my marketing instincts. I'd rather trust mine than somebody else's.)


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## GUTMAN (Dec 22, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> This. 1,000% this.
> 
> I quit my day job with a novelette priced at .99 cents. How many copies would I have sold if I priced it at $9.99? Heck, at $2.99, I would have had a pile of 1-star reviews claiming to have loved the story but felt let down because of the length.
> 
> ...


I have a different business model:

I price all of my novelettes at $50,000. Then I only need to sell one.

(sales are slow...)


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

The working for minimum wage equivalent and business model are part of the argument and not mutually exclusive.

Yes, a book is an investment for the long term and all that jazz, but if you want to earn a living from writing at some point in time, you will need to earn some kind of money. Your bills don't go "let's put this way for when my business starts becoming profitable" either.

Note that the OP was saying that you'd need 850 sales, not 850 sales from any one book. 850 sales, all up, each month, to even approximate something that may be called a living from writing. Now you can make that from one book you wrote last month or 50 books you wrote over the last ten years, but they still need to be 850 sales, or a lot more if your books are 99c. Again, whether or not your sales go up when you drop the price remains to be seen. Mine never did.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

I don't have a pricing philosophy outside of using whatever price gives me more visibility and drives readers to more of my books. Free? Sure. 99 cents? Yep. $3.99? $4.99? Yep got all of those in play right now, too. I have books in multi-author sets. I make somewhere between 5 and 10 cents per copy sold. On one title that I contributed to a multi-author boxed set this month I'm going to make more at 5 cents a copy sold than I did all of last month for that single title that is priced at $3.99. Pricing is a tool. That is all. It sounds crazy to make 5 cents a copy sold, right? But it's not. It's serving as an advertisement for the rest of my books and paying me to boot. 

Sign me up for the Swiss army knife.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

How the heck does it take you 320 hours to write a book?

By my math, that's 375 words per hour (for a book that's 120K long) or a book that 320,000 words long (assuming the average speed of 1K/hour).

Even if we assume that two of those weeks are used on planning or editing, we're still talking only writing 500 words per hour or having a pretty long darned book.

I think you're overestimating how many hours writing a book takes.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

EelKat said:


> However, I also hear a lot of KDPers complain that (unless they are writing erotica) shorts don't sell and they are lucky if each short sold 100 copies by the end of the year. In which case the pay would come out to .0099c per reader which means .99c is about 2x too low, and a 5k story show never be sold for anything under $1.99, but than you risk no sales at all for being too high.


As one anecdotal data point, I've sold more copies of _Final Contact_ since raising the price to $1.99 than I did at $0.99. I believe it spent about the same amount of time at each price so far.

That's still nowhere near minimum wage for the amount of time I spent writing it, but people will pay $1.99 for a 4,000 word SF story, and reducing the price didn't seem to increase sales.

I've probably just about hit minimum wage on _Fade To Grey_, which I released last month. It's made about $300 at $2.99 for a 15k novelette, and I spent about 30 hours writing it.

I think you're doing the right thing in trying different prices, because I don't believe you have to sell shorts at $0.99.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

_#3 horror and sci-fi do better as shorts than novels, but e-readers expect to pay less, and expect them to be bundled in sets of five 5k stories if you charge $2.99_

I write in these genres, and the fact that shorts do better than novels is not true.

I think short stories are a hard sell, except maybe if you write erotica. Maybe. If you're lucky.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Martitalbott said:


> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> ...


Great idea. I think I will price at $100. I would only have to sell 100 to hit minimum wage. Then I make a fortune after that. I deserve it.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Patty Jansen said:


> Hugh, I can't, not for the life of me, sell books for 99c. Not because I have any moral objection to it, but because people don't buy them. I think you rode the 99c wave, but that beast has well and truly bolted out the gates.


I just got done with a temporary promotion at 99 cents...the book sold like hot cakes. It's still possible.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

valeriec80 said:


> How the heck does it take you 320 hours to write a book?
> 
> By my math, that's 375 words per hour (for a book that's 120K long) or a book that 320,000 words long (assuming the average speed of 1K/hour).
> 
> ...


You are absolutely right, my math is way off. I lied. I don't normally lie, but occasionally I can't help myself. It used to be just a common, run of the mill mental state, but expensive doctors upgraded it to something I can't pronounce, let alone spell. It's the real reason I must make more money FAST!

You caught me. I just thought if I could get everyone else to raise their prices, it wouldn't look so ridiculous when I did.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

At the 2.99 Ebook price point I've stayed within the top 100 in Sci fi/post apocalyptic and Horror since release week. I am priced much lower than most of my peers, but then again, this is my first release. I think it just depends on the author. Stephen King can charge 9 bucks for an Ebook because of his last name.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

EelKat said:


> I'm just getting started here, so I have not yet had a change to see what works and what doesn't. Right now this is all just me pre-planning and basing my best guesses on what others have done. I'll know better where I stand a year from now.


Full disclosure? i don't know how to do it either. I started at $.99 and did well, but that was before the market became flooded with so many books at that price. All you can really do is guess. There is no formula, no one can help you decide, and even those of us with experience can't help...not really. I guess the best way is to ask yourself what you would be willing to pay, and then look at all the other prices in your genre.

The rest of these guys definitely should raise their prices. Sheesh.


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> Full disclosure? i don't know how to do it either. I started at $.99 and did well, but that was before the market became flooded with so many books at that price. All you can really do is guess. There is no formula, no one can help you decide, and even those of us with experience can't help...not really. I guess the best way is to ask yourself what you would be willing to pay, and then look at all the other prices in your genre.
> 
> The rest of these guys definitely should raise their prices. Sheesh.


Everyone has their way of doing it. I, personally, look at it as an investment. Not as a 9 to 5. I used to flip houses. I used to invest in real estate. This is the same concept. It's something that will bring residual income. But, whatever works for you and moves books.


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## David J Normoyle (Jun 22, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> How the heck does it take you 320 hours to write a book?
> 
> By my math, that's 375 words per hour (for a book that's 120K long) or a book that 320,000 words long (assuming the average speed of 1K/hour).
> 
> ...


Just because you can write fast, and don't need much editing or planning, don't assume everyone else is the same. Not everyone can get out 1000 words an hour, fix a few typos and send it off to the editor. Plus there's research, organizing cover art, organizing and following through on copy editing and proofreading, formatting, uploading to sites, promotion etc etc.

For example, here's the time it takes one of the most prolific authors on this board to write a book:


blakebooks said:


> It takes me roughly 150-180 hours to write a first draft. If I'm only writing four hours a day, you can do the math. I find that I work best on between 8 and 12 hours a day, when in a novel. Continuity improves, and my head's fully immersed in the story. Many of my novels I've written in two weeks on a first draft. Those that I've outlined, or where I've had a clear idea of pacing and story before I started. It's easier to write scenes if you know why they're there, what the objective is in writing them, and where they need to wind up. At that point, a novel is really just 35-50 scenes. If you've mapped out each and figured out the reason for it to be there, you'll work faster.
> 
> Second draft will take me 120 hours or so. Again, could be fewer if the first draft's already tight. I'm finding it takes me far less time on second now after 3 million words. Go figure.
> 
> Third draft, which is really a polish draft, takes me 40-60. Then it's off to two editors, who work on it sequentially, and then to a proofreader. While they're working on it, I'm on to the next novel.


Which is 310 to 370 hours just writing time.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> I guess it's variable, then. Some people seem to be able to raise prices and not see a drop-off in sales. Others see a major decline and have to beat a hasty retreat.
> 
> It seems like authors are worried what other authors are doing with their prices. Why? Are they devaluing literature? I've never bought that argument. If, as they say, shoppers equate low prices with low quality, then look at the discounters as having removed themselves from the marketplace. Less competition.


You make a good point about value, and hence why 99c makes sense for a novelette. But for a full novel, it's too little unless on a short-term sale. As indies we can represent better value than trad pubs, but it doesn't mean we have to always sell at the lowest price possible. There's a middle ground. For instance, Hugh, your dust novel is £8.56. That's a fair price for a novel. I wouldn't expect to buy that for under a dollar/or a pound, even Wool and Shift at £3.79 and £3.66 represent both good value without scraping in the bargain bin.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

I believe the following to be true:

If prices were higher more authors would be able to make a living writing.

Like so many people posted, prices can be all over the place. There is no one right answer. When you put the effort into your books that you do, you are adding value. The price people are willing to pay is based on many factors. They have the money to pay .99 or 2.99 for your book. There virtually is no difference between the two from the readers point of view. General statement because yes I know people who count pennies. The one worry I have that stands out is that so many people consistently price at .99. It feels like authors are undervaluing themselves. If you put your heart in soul into writing, my wish for you would be to make a living at it


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## AngryGames (Jul 28, 2013)

I price my stories on what I think they are worth. 

If I price a story at $.99, it isn't because I think it is crap (I wouldn't publish something I truly thought was crap), it is because I feel like $.99 is a good asking price for the number of words/length of the story. 

I see writers getting $2.99 for 10k-20k word novellas, and I'm glad they are doing it. I see erotica writers getting $2.99 for a 3k word short story, and I'm glad they are able to find paying customers. But I don't worry (or care) what other authors are charging for their stories, nor do I care about anyone telling me I'm devaluing my work (or even their work, or authors' work in general). 

I don't waste time telling anyone how to write/market/price their stories. If anyone wants to blame me or other authors for 'cheapening' the craft, blame away. I tend to have noise-canceling earbuds in with heavy metal blasting most of the time, so I doubt I'll hear you. 

I'm in it for the long haul. I don't put a monetary value on the hours I spend writing. I write because I love to write. If I make money at it, that's pretty cool. If not, well, I did just say I love to write. 

I've sold (at least) one copy of each story I've published, and that's good enough for me to declare myself successful.


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## leep (Aug 25, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> I don't know about you, but I plan to sell at least 850 copies of each book over their lifetime...


And there lies the point. Selling books isn't like doing a regular 9-5 because you can re-sell that period of work indefinitely. Some authors have lived off the proceeds of just one book for their entire lives (and their descendants too).

Much more important to get a readership, as big and as wide as possible. Lower prices may not be the way for you, every success seems to have had its own recipe, but don't discount pricing low because you think it's less the minimum wage in the time you expended.


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## Lana Amore (Oct 13, 2013)

AngryGames said:


> I price my stories on what I think they are worth.
> 
> If I price a story at $.99, it isn't because I think it is crap (I wouldn't publish something I truly thought was crap), it is because I feel like $.99 is a good asking price for the number of words/length of the story.
> 
> ...


Best attitude evah! I agree 1,000%.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

The "right price" is the one that allows you to make the most money and find the most readers - be that $.99, $2.99, $4.99, or $9.99.

It's very dependent on author, length, and what the Top 100 in your genre generally sells for.

If I browse the Top 100 Post-Apocalyptic list (which is my genre), anything that's not trad-pub generally sells anywhere from $.99 to a max of $4.99, with some exceptions. Most is $2.99.

I've experimented with my pricing and think I've found what works best for me - permafreeing the first and charging $2.99 for the rest. I used to do $2.99 with all the books, but not enough people downloaded the first for them to go on and read the rest. I experimented with $2.99 for the first and $4.99 for the rest, but called a hasty retreat when sales plummeted.

I finally found what works for me - permafree on book one, and $2.99 for the rest. Like Ryk said earlier, I can sell enough in volume at $2.99 that I probably make far more at that price point than if charged $4.99, or even $3.99. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I would also feel bad if I raised prices on people when $2.99 seems to be working so well - even if some fans have told me that $2.99 was too cheap. I want consistency with my pricing now that I'm actually being downloaded and read.

I also look at it this way: once my entire series of seven books is out, and six of them cost $2.99, then a reader will be paying approximately $18 for the entire thing. To me, that's a fair price for an entire ginormous book. If I bundle Books 1-4 like I plan on doing at $5.99, and charge $2.99 each for 5-7, then the entire series would cost $15 - again, what seems to me to be a fair price for something that's going to end up being anywhere from 400k-450k words total.

The point is, you have to find what works for _you._ That's going to be different for each and every person. It all comes down to experimentation until you settle into a system that works for you.

I do think that if you write an 80,000-120,000k word story, you can get away with charging anywhere from $4.99-$7.99, granted that the book is as professional as possible in cover/formatting/editing, etc.

Since I tend to write shorter (my shortest being 41k, my longest 72k), $2.99 works for me.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

kwest said:


> If I browse the Top 100 Post-Apocalyptic list (which is my genre), anything that's not trad-pub generally sells anywhere from $.99 to a max of $4.99, with some exceptions. Most is $2.99.


There, you made my point for me. "Not traditionally published." Books priced at $.99 - $2.99 scream self-published and readers know it. It is not what we think the price should be, but the reader's perception of the quality of lower priced books.

Here we are, independent, in charge of everything, and we fall into this pit of not being future thinking when it comes to prices. If authors have never been traditionally published, they aren't going to write the "cookie cutter" books traditional publishers demand. Their material, in many cases, is refreshingly original. Frankly, I think that's what scared publishers most - they like telling readers what they want to read. The question is: are readers sick of it?


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## JV (Nov 12, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> There, you made my point for me. "Not traditionally published." Books priced at $.99 - $2.99 scream self-published and readers know it. It is not what we think the price should be, but the reader's perception of the quality of lower priced books.
> 
> Here we are, independent, in charge of everything, and we fall into this pit of not being future thinking when it comes to prices. If authors have never been traditionally published, they aren't going to write the "cookie cutter" books traditional publishers demand. Their material, in many cases, is refreshingly original. Frankly, I think that's what scared publishers most - they like telling readers what they want to read. The question is: are readers sick of it?


My book is priced at 2.99 and has been top 100 in all of its genres since launch...I don't think readers are thinking it's screaming "unprofessional". I'm also, as of this writing, 655 overall...I just don't think price has as much to do with it as you think. I'm not self published, but still, my point stands. Hell, Hugh Howey is a perfect example...started self published, 99 cents, and sold so much he quit his day job and got picked up by Random House...


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

AngryGames said:


> I price my stories on what I think they are worth.
> 
> If I price a story at $.99, it isn't because I think it is crap (I wouldn't publish something I truly thought was crap), it is because I feel like $.99 is a good asking price for the number of words/length of the story.
> 
> ...


Great stuff. Thanks for sharing it. This largely echoes my own views.

As always, really happy to read the wide variety of viewpoints here.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Martitalbott said:


> There, you made my point for me. "Not traditionally published." Books priced at $.99 - $2.99 scream self-published and readers know it. It is not what we think the price should be, but the reader's perception of the quality of lower priced books.
> 
> Here we are, independent, in charge of everything, and we fall into this pit of not being future thinking when it comes to prices. If authors have never been traditionally published, they aren't going to write the "cookie cutter" books traditional publishers demand. Their material, in many cases, is refreshingly original. Frankly, I think that's what scared publishers most - they like telling readers what they want to read. The question is: are readers sick of it?


First off, nobody tells me what I want to read. I pick what I want to read. No publisher in all my years of reading has ever told me what to read. 
I also don't find any more cookie cutter with trad publishing than I do with indy publishing.

My perception is also not of lower quality when I buy something for 99-2.99. It also don't scream self published to me. What screams self published to me are bad covers, badly written blurbs, fake reviews and copy cat stories. The rest of the SP's, those that are professional, fit right in with the big boys. I have bought high quality stuff in the 99-2.99 range all year. I have bought more books this year than any other with kindle, many of them in that lower range. Most of them trad published or back list releases. Lots of sales this year.

Its not just about the price. I can research a book and look at the cover and blurb and such to see if its low quality. 
I don't think low quality when I get a great price, I think yay bargain, save some money. 
But then I don't just randomly click on the buy button without doing my vetting.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

There is a revenue maximizing price for any good at any specific time. This is the price where 1) raising it results in less revenue, and 2) lowering it results in less revenue.

For this price at a specific time, it doesn't matter what minimum wage is, doesn't matter what producers deserve, doesn't matter how producers value their product, doesn't matter how much work went into the product, doesn't matter what the producers long term goals are, and doesn't matter who can make a living at that price. The market doesn't react to producers state of mind.

This price can change if producers can move the demand curve up. The max revenue price can go up or down, and just means getting more people to buy at any given price. This  might be done by advertising, free books, promotion, blogs, Super Bowl spots, and blabbing in chat rooms. But max revenue price still operates the same way.

There are other prices that will maximize volume and result in lower revenue.

The price today that will maximize revenue over the next five years cannot be determined.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> Here we are, independent, in charge of everything, and we fall into this pit of not being future thinking when it comes to prices.


I think what folks are saying is that they ARE thinking of the future in their pricing. When I lowered the price of my first book to 99 cents, I sold 9,000 copies that month, and had another 1,000 borrowed. And sold 10,000 copies of the other then-three books, which were $3.99. My strategy for my (so far) first 15 months has been to try to get visibility more than anything else--to gain a following. As part of that, I lowered my prices of the other books to $2.99 for about five months, which worked well too. I raised them back to $3.99 once I was confident that people would pay that. There was a little dip at the beginning, but then they did. It's all been trial and error, and as people say, different for different genres and books.

When I put my marketing hat on, I'm not thinking about what my books are "worth," except what they are worth to the customer. That is the only thing that matters at that point. I'm thinking about what will sell books.

One reason, IMHO, that so many of the bestselling romance authors are self-published is precisely because their books aren't priced as high as the trad published authors', which matters to a reader who goes through two or three or five books a week. At that level of consumption, yes, it matters whether the book is $3.99 or $9.99 (or even $4.99). I don't believe that, in romance, a lower price (whether 99 cents, $2.99, or $3.99) sends any kind of negative quality signal. Not when plenty of bestselling trad published authors' backlists are priced at those levels too, at least occasionally.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

When I write longer stories for my next series (say, 80k-120k words each), I'm going to start charging $4.99, and MAYBE $5.99, at least to see if it works. Of course, I'll have great covers, blurbs, editing, the whole shebang. I think the indies who do charge more for their stories are inspiring and it's really cool that they've made it work.

All I know is, the only time I've tried $4.99 I noticed a marked decrease in sales. The second book in my series got over 200k in ranking after a few days, which had never happened before.

I see indies low prices not as a sign of low quality but as our biggest advantage. We can sell books from $2.99-$4.99 and make more than a trad pubbed author whose book is going for $9.99. And if we're willing to invest the money in outsourcing our covers and editing, we can be every bit as professional and even more so.

It's really an exciting time to be a writer!


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

I love you guys. Diverse opinions are what makes the world go round, and by golly, everyone has one. Just don't take all this seriously. I don't. It's not worth getting upset about. I just like a good, healthy, thoughtful discussion occasionally.

Apparently, I failed to mention I am always right. Even when I am wrong, I can convince myself I am right. It's a special characteristic of which only a few can boast.

Seriously, How many of us have hit the big time? Sure, Hugh is a good example, as are others we can name, but please...what if they just got lucky? What if their work was so good, it would have sold at any price?

As for being competitive - since when is $4.99 not inexpensive for a full length novel?


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2013)

The moral of the story is: price whatever you want and test it because there's any argument for every price point on the board. Using one person's success as a barometer is folly. Test and figure it out for your own books; there is no right way.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

EelKat said:


> Yes, this is something that has been weighing heavily on my mind lately, especially these past few weeks as I get closer and closer to the release date for my first ebooks. I've been in print for years, but never ebooks yet and I'm trying to figure out how to go about setting ebook prices, as they are not priced using the same formulas as for print books.
> 
> The problem for me is compounded by the fact that I don't write novels I write short stories, so that's a whole different pricing method as well.
> 
> ...


I just want to respond to your .05c a word for magazines. Yes for a magazine with 2000 subscribers that is a good cut, but if you agreed to do an article for say Better Homes and Gardens, that same $250 would be cheap per reader. Their October issue alone had a print run of 8,000,121. Just a little food for thought.


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## portiadacosta (Feb 28, 2011)

EelKat said:


> #1 you can sell 5k Erotica for anything $2.99 to $7.99 and it always sells so long as the author edits/proofs it well


Not always.


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## BBGriffith (Mar 13, 2012)

Great debate here. I've had my books all over the place, but I ended at 4.99 because Russel Blake convinced me to try it in his Sell Loads of Books thread and it's working well enough for me. I also think higher priced sequels are justified by a loss leader on the first book. If your first book is free or .99c in a series, I've found readers much more willing to pay 3.99 to 4.99 for subsequent books.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

BBGriffith said:


> Great debate here. I've had my books all over the place, but I ended at 4.99 because Russel Blake convinced me to try it in his Sell Loads of Books thread and it's working well enough for me. I also think higher priced sequels are justified by a loss leader on the first book. If your first book is free or .99c in a series, I've found readers much more willing to pay 3.99 to 4.99 for subsequent books.


Yes because the free/99c lets me get to know you. I would not risk 4.99 on your first book but if you are good, I will pay that for a second book. Note, I am queen of the cheap.


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## boo4321 (Nov 21, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> One reason, IMHO, that so many of the bestselling romance authors are self-published is precisely because their books aren't priced as high as the trad published authors', which matters to a reader who goes through two or three or five books a week. At that level of consumption, yes, it matters whether the book is $3.99 or $9.99 (or even $4.99). I don't believe that, in romance, a lower price (whether 99 cents, $2.99, or $3.99) sends any kind of negative quality signal. Not when plenty of bestselling trad published authors' backlists are priced at those levels too, at least occasionally.


^ This this this this this.

Genre has a HUGE impact on average prices--and not just among indies. I have (romance-writing) friends who got picked up by traditional publishers and the publishers priced their ebooks in the $3.99 range to stay competitive. In the romance genre, it's not an indicator of quality at all. If you're a HUGE name like E.L. James or Nora Roberts with a massive following I'm sure you can command more, but a large portion of romance readers are inhaling multiple books a week, and so $2.99-$3.99 tends to be the sweet spot.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> There, you made my point for me. "Not traditionally published." Books priced at $.99 - $2.99 scream self-published and readers know it. It is not what we think the price should be, but the reader's perception of the quality of lower priced books.


Well, since these books are all in the top 100, it seems that readers aren't bothered by knowing they're self published!

I rarely pay over $3.99 for a book. I didn't before self publishing either. I didn't buy books new, I bought them second hand (usually for around $1). I love reading, and there's no way I could keep up with my reading if I paid full price for books. I make an exception for brilliant books. (Like Wool. Read the sample just to see what the fuss was about, then bought it as soon as I finished, despite it's price tag.)


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

No Good Deed has been priced from free (temporary free runs, never perma-free) to $3.99. It sold a ton at 99 cents, but that was in the summer of 2011. I kept it at that price until about mid-Sept. 2011 when sales dropped. I went back to it's usual price of $2.99. The 99 cents thing was supposed to be short term and was going to go back to regular price that June, but it had price-match to free unexpectedly at the end of March, and I couldn't change the price. When the price match ended in the middle of the night, I woke up to hundreds of sales at 99 cents, and it went on to reach about #15 in the store. No way was I going to mess with the price at that point.   Believe me, I'm not a snob about price-points. 

However, all good things come to an end and I increased the price to $2.99--it's usual prior to that. Then Select started and there were threads back then about price-points. I decided to go to $3.99 with the two books I had then, and that is where they have stayed. When I published my third, I increased the price a little bit to $4.29 for that one. 

Last week, No Good Deed, had a dry run of about 4-5 days without sales or borrows. Nothing. I was beginning to think the buy button was broken.   I don't think I've had that long of a dry run on it since about the third month it was published over three years ago. So, since it wasn't selling anyway, I decided to increase the price to $4.99. I also wrote a blog post about my marketing ideas (not related to price--it's all in fun.). I don't know if it was the blog post or what, but my sales picked up a bit and I had some borrows. Also, I had a few sales of a duobook that includes NGD, and I've sold a few of my boxed set--two of them in the U.K. in fact. I think I've only sold about three of them there in a year! lol. So, for me, raising the price has worked in ways I hadn't expected. I'm getting sales on my combo/boxed sets because the bundles save so much money for the readers. They also keep me from feeling guilty because I know readers have options to save money. But, keep in mind, it's only been about five days so not really enough time to see how it all works out.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

The fun thing about pricing is that you can experiment. You should, to see what is your preferred price point.

Someone mentioned that all the self-published books in the top 100 of their genre were $2.99. Personally, I don't tend to consider other self-published books as competing titles. I consider all genre books to be competing titles, regardless of how they were published. Seeing as the vast majority of buyers are unlikely to care or notice who published a title, they will be able to tell by the price.

It really depends on what audience you're going for.


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

One factor missing from the quest for a magical pricing equation is time. Not ours, but the collective time of our potential readers. Readers can still lay their eyeballs on books for, at most, 24 hours a day.

At any given moment--and I have been in this situation--many of our books are _overpriced_ at free.

Until the laws of time and space are upended, all of us will not be able to earn a minimum wage as authors.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Mike McIntyre said:


> Until the laws of time and space are upended, all of us will not be able to earn a minimum wage as authors.


Funny! And an excellent point. Meanwhile, we'll all have to bumble along, finding our way and doing our best to figure out what works for us, and hopefully enjoying the journey! At least the writing part of it.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

MaryMcDonald said:


> No Good Deed has been priced from free (temporary free runs, never perma-free) to $3.99. It sold a ton at 99 cents, but that was in the summer of 2011. I kept it at that price until about mid-Sept. 2011 when sales dropped. I went back to it's usual price of $2.99. The 99 cents thing was supposed to be short term and was going to go back to regular price that June, but it had price-match to free unexpectedly at the end of March, and I couldn't change the price. When the price match ended in the middle of the night, I woke up to hundreds of sales at 99 cents, and it went on to reach about #15 in the store. No way was I going to mess with the price at that point.  Believe me, I'm not a snob about price-points.
> 
> However, all good things come to an end and I increased the price to $2.99--it's usual prior to that. Then Select started and there were threads back then about price-points. I decided to go to $3.99 with the two books I had then, and that is where they have stayed. When I published my third, I increased the price a little bit to $4.29 for that one.
> 
> Last week, No Good Deed, had a dry run of about 4-5 days without sales or borrows. Nothing. I was beginning to think the buy button was broken.  I don't think I've had that long of a dry run on it since about the third month it was published over three years ago. So, since it wasn't selling anyway, I decided to increase the price to $4.99. I also wrote a blog post about my marketing ideas (not related to price--it's all in fun.). I don't know if it was the blog post or what, but my sales picked up a bit and I had some borrows. Also, I had a few sales of a duobook that includes NGD, and I've sold a few of my boxed set--two of them in the U.K. in fact. I think I've only sold about three of them there in a year! lol. So, for me, raising the price has worked in ways I hadn't expected. I'm getting sales on my combo/boxed sets because the bundles save so much money for the readers. They also keep me from feeling guilty because I know readers have options to save money. But, keep in mind, it's only been about five days so not really enough time to see how it all works out.


I will be interested in hearing how this turns out for you. The trick is to keep the $4.99 price for long enough to fairly test it - two weeks to a month. I think you'll be surprised, and if your sales start to pick up, then my theory that raising prices moves books into a different reader base will be right. I sure would like to be right...occasionally.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Bruce Rousseau did a detailed analysis of prices in Sept. It's definitely worth studying.

http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Monique said:


> Bruce Rousseau did a detailed analysis of prices in Sept. It's definitely worth studying.
> 
> http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html


That is quite interesting. I wonder about the genre of these books.

Also, it tells me: tell a story people want to read, and don't worry about the price.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Hmmm...  I dropped the price of Book One by a dollar to $2.99 two days ago and my sales are up. Not massively, but noticeably.
Interesting.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Patty Jansen said:


> That is quite interesting. I wonder about the genre of these books.
> 
> Also, it tells me: tell a story people want to read, and don't worry about the price.


You can use the links in the left-hand sidebar to see the data for the top 100 in lots of genres.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Monique said:


> Bruce Rousseau did a detailed analysis of prices in Sept. It's definitely worth studying.
> 
> http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html


Good stuff, Monique. Thanks for sharing. It certainly does vary by genre, doesn't it?


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## chrissponias (Sep 22, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> In total agreement. Intro pricing lets new readers take a chance and see if they'll like you. If they can go on and buy everything else you've written without breaking the bank--bonus.
> 
> The right price is the one where your books climb the rankings and you make the most (which you'll only do if your customers perceive value at that price). Pricing works best when it's based on what customers think, not on what you think.


This was a good lesson. I guess I needed it because I didn't like the low prices in Kindle.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

chrissponias said:


> This was a good lesson. I guess I needed it because I didn't like the low prices in Kindle.


It's a lot like real estate, I think. Sellers get hung up on what they think their house "should" be worth: what they paid for it, how much time/effort/money they put into it, etc. "Look at this carpeting! This is wool!" None of which is going to make it sell for a penny more (as I sadly know all too well from selling two houses in down markets, sigh). It's worth what it's worth to a buyer. So hard when you have an emotional attachment. And if you feel that way about your house--how much more strongly do you feel about your books, your bay-bees?

That said, nonfiction seems to be able to command a higher price, so there ya go!


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I have no problem with authors pricing higher. I have no problem with authors pricing lower. Whatever works for them.

What I have a problem with is someone telling others they should or should not do something. Why force everyone into the same mold? We should be able to do our own market research, test our our own prices, and figure out what earns us the most by ourselves.

I've never understood people shouting about what all the other authors should do. If you want to raise prices, go ahead. If you think low prices makes us look bad, don't price low.

I guess I just don't like the idea of YOU SHOULD or YOU SHOULD NOT. It's pointless anyway. You'll never convince everyone else to do what you want.

Just sayin.


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm currently weighing up putting a 600 page novel perma free. I don't want to, but part two of the trilogy will be out on the 16th and part three in January. With both #2 and #3 priced at $4.99 it might be worth it. Hell, at the moment it doesn't sell more than a couple of copies a month whether its $4.99 or $0.99.

I think my point is, you have to be flexible and try different things. Do I like the idea of giving away a 600 page book for free? No. I'd like to sell it at $9.99. However, if I get enough people buying #2 and #3 it might be worth it.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Victorine said:


> I have no problem with authors pricing higher. I have no problem with authors pricing lower. Whatever works for them.
> 
> What I have a problem with is someone telling others they should or should not do something. Why force everyone into the same mold? We should be able to do our own market research, test our our own prices, and figure out what earns us the most by ourselves.
> 
> ...


^This. I couldn't agree more.

So many of these type of posts seem to be of the "I want to price my books higher, so you should too so that people don't choose your book instead of mine because it's cheaper."


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Rinelle Grey said:


> ^This. I couldn't agree more.
> 
> So many of these type of posts seem to be of the "I want to price my books higher, so you should too so that people don't choose your book instead of mine because it's cheaper."


This!!


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> I have no problem with authors pricing higher. I have no problem with authors pricing lower. Whatever works for them.
> 
> What I have a problem with is someone telling others they should or should not do something. Why force everyone into the same mold? We should be able to do our own market research, test our our own prices, and figure out what earns us the most by ourselves.
> 
> ...


The collective is not pleased.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Martitalbott said:


> I will be interested in hearing how this turns out for you. The trick is to keep the $4.99 price for long enough to fairly test it - two weeks to a month. I think you'll be surprised, and if your sales start to pick up, then my theory that raising prices moves books into a different reader base will be right. I sure would like to be right...occasionally.


Why do I suddenly feel like shouting out, "I volunteer! I volunteer as tribute!"


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Monique said:


> Bruce Rousseau did a detailed analysis of prices in Sept. It's definitely worth studying.
> 
> http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html


Thanks for the link. It shows me that my $4.99 price is in line with Amazon imprints of the same length/genre. Not a bad place to be. There weren't many bestsellers below $5 in the genre, and the majority are above $10 by the trade pubs.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

We fuss about 99c vs $2.99 but I just stumbled across Pocket Books trying to rip off sell off this eBook written in 2009 for... $20.39! And it even made it to #323,535 in the Paid Kindle Store...









http://www.amazon.com/Devlin-Diary-Christi-Phillips-ebook/dp/B001NLKVTU

I'm gathering this is an anomaly or a typo LOL...


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Patty Jansen said:


> This is not really what Marti is talking about.
> 
> At $4.99 you need to sell 850 books a month to make a minimum wage, at $2.99, you need to sell twice that many. Are you going to sell twice as many for half the price? I have found not.


This comment keeps puzzling me. Don't most of us have more than one novel out? I certainly wouldn't expect to make minimum wage with only one.

ETA: For me, between 3 and 4 dollars seems to be the "sweet spot". I don't increase sales by decreasing price and lose sales increasing it.


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

Martitalbott said:


> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> ...


First, thank you. Dear god, _thank you._ I love it when I see writers advocating pricing a little higher. A couple years ago, pretty much everyone on this board was advocating going low, so it's nice to see a much broader range of opinions now.

No doubt there's no right price for every book, just as there's no right price for every album, video, or bottle of wine. For a book I really want to read, $9.99 is a bargain. For a book I don't want to read, free is too much. It's also true that there's plenty of readers who only buy cheap or free books for their reading entertainment. There's also plenty of readers who equate low-priced books with low quality. This is true across all kinds of products, not just books, and it's not just opinion: thousands of market studies back this up. Price does affect perception of quality. The question is whether the trade off is worth it, and for lots of writers, the answer is yes. I have no problem with that.

The problem is that while pricing low was a decent way to stand out as little as a year ago, there's just not as much differential in prices compared to traditionally priced books any more. Big publishers are getting more aggressive, experimenting, both with frontlist and backlist. The bottom end has also come up, as most indie writers have figured out that there's just too much stigma to keep your books at 99 cents indefinitely (short-term sales are another matter). The DOJ settlement also played a part, allowing Amazon, Google, and other ebook retailers to price match more aggressively. We seem to be settling into a range of $3.99-$7.99 for most ebooks, and most readers (not all, certainly, but most) are just not going to choose to buy one book over an other with that kind of price differential.

My point is that standing out just on price is getting a lot harder. My gut sense, and this is just my opinion, but that for most writers (not all), it's probably better to price ebooks a little higher, $4.99-$6.99, and then be aggressive with short-term discounts and other sales. But no strategy works for everyone, and there's obviously an emotional component to this for most writers. Personally, I don't want readers buying me just because I'm cheap. I may be a whore, but I want to at least be a middle-of-the-range whore. Not the most expensive, certainly, but middle-of-the-range.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

Maybe this has already been touched on.  I only got through page 2 and I'm not going to follow this thread, so if anyone wants a follow up comment from me, you'll have to nudge me. 

My thoughts...

If any of you are interested in attracting a traditional publisher to your work, you cannot be pricing at 99 cents anymore.  I have talked to a couple people very in the know on this, I am not just guessing or surmising.  Consider this coming straight from the horse's mouth.

Now that so many authors are pricing at 99 cents and hitting the big lists, but once they raise prices, they fall off into obscurity, the trad pubs are starting to view that price point as too risky a proposition.  Why?  Because they don't want to have to price books at 99 cents to move volume (sets a bad precedent), and they know many people will buy a 99 cent book they'll never read and that practice is going to eventually come to an end.  Already many people view 99 cents as "cheap" in quality.

Big 5 want volume at $3.99 or above, and of course the higher the better.  They have big office rents and big staff salaries to pay, so they have a very huge vested interest in keeping prices high.  If you can't sell volume at higher prices, you are not worth the risk for them.

So, in essence, if you want to play in that ball game, better get your prices up!

I price my introductory books from free to $4.99 depending on the series.  And all books next in series are $4.99 across the board.  I believe they're worth it and that kind of pricing puts me in a position to make a nice living as a writer regardless of whether I ever have a big trad pub deal put in front of me.  I believe pricing should reflect the value of the work in your readers' eyes. If you're pricing too high, they'll let you know.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Scott William Carter said:


> The problem is that while pricing low was a decent way to stand out as little as a year ago, there's just not as much differential in prices compared to traditionally priced books any more.


That's true, but it actually argues against your other point: the fact that many trad published books are offered at much lower prices now (esp. in certain genres, like mine) should help reduce any "stigma" attached to lower prices, no?

I don't price my first book low to stand out. I do it to reduce the risk for a new reader. Hey, if she hates it, it was only a buck! That's still working well. My first book has always been my top or second-best seller (though all my books are stand-alones), and about 40% of buyers go on to buy all the other 4 books in the series (and the other series too, lots of them, bless them). So that's made it more than worthwhile for me. (And I just started with that price in Jan. 2013. I've heard people say both "free" and "99 cents" are less powerful for them now, but I haven't found that to be the case.)

But as so many folks here have said: to each their own! We all get to choose for ourselves, and isn't that great?


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

What harm does the "stigma" of $0.99 do to the book, exactly? Does it result in fewer sales? Worse reviews? I know the former isn't true and I'm skeptical of the latter.

Incidentally, I know somebody who sold a $0.99 book to a publisher earlier this month after interest from multiple houses.


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

Rosalind James said:


> That's true, but it actually argues against your other point: the fact that many trad published books are offered at much lower prices now (esp. in certain genres, like mine) should help reduce any "stigma" attached to lower prices, no?
> 
> I don't price my first book low to stand out. I do it to reduce the risk for a new reader. Hey, if she hates it, it was only a buck! That's still working well. My first book has always been my top or second-best seller (though all my books are stand-alones), and about 40% of buyers go on to buy all the other 4 books in the series (and the other series too, lots of them, bless them). So that's made it more than worthwhile for me. (And I just started with that price in Jan. 2013. I've heard people say both "free" and "99 cents" are less powerful for them now, but I haven't found that to be the case.)
> 
> But as so many folks here have said: to each their own! We all get to choose for ourselves, and isn't that great?


There's a big difference between pricing at .99 cents and pricing at $5.99. Traditional publishers have come down quite a bit, but I don't see many permanently pricing books at .99 cents. Short term discounts, sure. That said, less powerful does not mean not powerful at all. And romance, which it looks like you write, is one of those genres where there's a bigger percentage of readers who are price-sensitive. Harlequin has made billions because of it. It's working for you, stick with it.

Brief story that makes my point. The company that produces the Concorde airplane saw a slump in sales a number of years ago. They brought in a new CEO to turn things around. Rather than drop his price, his market research indicated that his price was too low based on the perception of value of their brand. So he raised the price -- and sales immediately increased, and stayed that way, turning the company around.

So experiment, yes, but don't be afraid to go higher. Not only will you make more money per copy sold, you may just sell more copies, too, because that's where your brand should be priced. And instead of dropping your price because you're not selling, ask yourself what you can do to convince the reader that your book is worth more. Better cover? Better description? And of course, better book.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> My gut sense, and this is just my opinion, but that for most writers (not all), it's probably better to price ebooks a little higher, $4.99-$6.99, and then be aggressive with short-term discounts and other sales.


We don't have to reason to this stuff. Its easy to test.


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## Some Writer Cat (Sep 22, 2010)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> What harm does the "stigma" of $0.99 do to the book, exactly? Does it result in fewer sales? Worse reviews? I know the former isn't true and I'm skeptical of the latter.
> 
> Incidentally, I know somebody who sold a $0.99 book to a publisher earlier this month after interest from multiple houses.


Actually, the former is sometimes true. There are many readers who won't touch a book if it's price too low. I just convinced a friend to price is nonfiction book higher even though he said he didn't care and "just wanted to be read." He raised it from .99 to 6.99 and sales doubled -- because that's where that book should have been priced. And of course he made a hell of a lot more money. It's a fallacy to assume that lower prices always equates to more sales. For some books, sure.

The RWA had a reader survey on this last year, if you want data that goes beyond our own anecdotal opinion. And of course if we get outside of books, there's thousands of studies that have been done about how price affects perception of value.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Scott William Carter said:


> And instead of dropping your price because you're not selling, ask yourself what you can do to convince the reader that your book is worth more. Better cover? Better description? And of course, better book.


I didn't drop my price (on my first book) because I wasn't selling. I dropped it because I WAS selling, and I wanted to see if I could sell more. And I did. Ten times more.

(My background is in marketing, BTW, publishing marketing, actually. So I came into this with a fair amount of pricing experience and a willingness to trust my gut, which has helped. And an ability to make pricing decisions free of emotion--except that I really want to sell lots of books!--which has helped too. If it helps me climb the rankings, I'll do it, doesn't matter a bit to me if there's a stigma. If there is, it doesn't seem to have stopped people from reading and enjoying the 99-cent book, and that's what matters to me. (I do think a low price--or free--on your FIRST book looks pretty different from a low price on all your books.)

It probably helps that I don't have any illusions about my Deathless Prose. I hope that I write entertaining fiction and that I do it well, but I don't think it's so life-changing that 99 cents is some kind of artistic insult. Maybe I'd feel differently if I wrote literary fiction, but I don't, so there ya go.

Anyway, I don't think a person needs a marketing background to do some outside research, test, and determine what works for his/her own books--which may change over time. Who knows if my first book will still be priced at 99 cents six months from now? And genre, genre, genre.

Just thought about this a bit more: Maybe my own decision would make more sense if I put some numbers to it. So here I go:

Yes, if I'm selling 1,000 copies/month of Book 1 at $3.99 and making $2,700 on that, and I dropped it to 99 cents, and even if it sold 3x as much, 3,000 copies on that price--I'd still only be making $1,050 (at Amazon). Which would make no sense.

BUT: What if I dropped it to 99 cents, and now it sold 10,000 copies (some of them borrows), and I made $5,150? Better, but not overwhelming.

BUT: What if, by selling 10,000 copies of Book 1, I also sold 10,000 copies total of the other books, which are still priced at $3.99? Now I'm making $30,000 for the month, which is looking a whole lot better than the previous month's $5,000. Because I've raised my visibility hugely with my 99-cent Book 1. And now Book 1 is on all kinds of bestseller lists, and my name's popping up, and I'm getting word of mouth.

Not saying it'd work that way every time, but that was the idea, why it seemed worth a shot, and that is actually how it worked out. My main goal, since I'm just starting out, has been visibility, getting noticed in the sea of books and authors, building a fan base. And then, eventually, yeah, maybe you're charging $4.99 (about as high as I'd go in my genre). Maybe those trad publishers are interested. But to get there, to get $4.99/book for a LOT of books/month, first you have to get there. First you have to get enough people to read and like your books. Still working on that, but--progress!

Anyway, for what that's worth, that was the thought process and the way it played out. And if it hadn't worked, trust me, I would've popped that sucker right back up to $3.99.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

Scott William Carter said:


> Actually, the former is sometimes true. There are many readers who won't touch a book if it's price too low. I just convinced a friend to price is nonfiction book higher even though he said he didn't care and "just wanted to be read." He raised it from .99 to 6.99 and sales doubled -- because that's where that book should have been priced. And of course he made a hell of a lot more money. It's a fallacy to assume that lower prices always equates to more sales. For some books, sure.
> 
> The RWA had a reader survey on this last year, if you want data that goes beyond our own anecdotal opinion. And of course if we get outside of books, there's thousands of studies that have been done about how price affects perception of value.


You know, I can believe there are instances where raising price will result in more sales because people are sketched about a bargain-basement price. But I'd bet that's much more relevant to nonfiction than fiction. I don't have any evidence on that.

Anecdotally, I've been experimenting a whole bunch this year trying to figure out the effect of $0.99 on sales, and my junk (SF/F) sells twice as much at $0.99 as at $2.99-3.99.

Funny thing is that a bunch of my reviews on the box set I've been selling for a buck start with "For $0.99, I wasn't expecting much." Indicating people do distrust the price.. but they bought, read, and liked it anyway. Just another anecdote.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> He raised it from .99 to 6.99 and sales doubled


Dollars or units?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Elle, I know you said you weren't going to follow this thread, but I wanted to post my thanks to you for sharing this with us. Very nice to know.



ellecasey said:


> If any of you are interested in attracting a traditional publisher to your work, you cannot be pricing at 99 cents anymore. I have talked to a couple people very in the know on this, I am not just guessing or surmising. Consider this coming straight from the horse's mouth.
> 
> Big 5 want volume at $3.99 or above, and of course the higher the better. They have big office rents and big staff salaries to pay, so they have a very huge vested interest in keeping prices high. If you can't sell volume at higher prices, you are not worth the risk for them.
> 
> So, in essence, if you want to play in that ball game, better get your prices up!


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## Bruce Rousseau (Mar 3, 2012)

Looking at my charts (http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html), I see 2 types of readers: 1) Readers that focus on price. 2) Readers that focus on their favorite authors or a compelling book, regardless of price. Both of these reader types are driving books into Amazon's best seller lists.

The charts also show that large publishers are not competing with indie / small press on price. Not yet. Yes, major publishers are drifting below the $9.99 price, but they rarely go below $4.99 for an ebook. And the independents are mostly clustered between $3.99 and $0.99.

It's a turf war. Indies have captured the price sensitive readers. Major publishers have captured readers who want A-list authors.

Charging prices over $5.99 puts you in competition with popular authors. That works if you have a fan base, otherwise it's a hard sell. (Teen / YA is an exception -- that age group isn't so price conscious.)

Yes, there's a stigma with $0.99 novels. (Unless it looks like a sale price.) But there are enough people looking for something good & cheap to push an awful lot of $0.99 ebooks into the best seller list.

None of us are going anywhere (money wise) without fans. Focus on them, not price.
* Produce a quality product
* Get visibility
* Gather your fans around you
Price is just another tool in your indie toolbox.

But understand that *there are 2 price arenas for ebooks*, divided at about the $5.50 mark. Amazon is keenly aware of this -- they price their imprints to stay on the value side.


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## A.R. Williams (Jan 9, 2011)

Rinelle Grey said:


> So many of these type of posts seem to be of the "I want to price my books higher, so you should too so that people don't choose your book instead of mine because it's cheaper."


Or it could be because they genuinely do not want to see pricing get so skewed readers come to expect that all novels should be priced in the cellar. For those who think readers can't be trained on prices and pricing I'd like to link to this article:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dirty-secret-black-friday-discounts-164003307.html

Some key points from the article:



> But the floodgates have opened. In a 2012 presentation, Mr. Johnson, then still Penney's CEO, said the company was selling fewer than one out of every 500 items at full price. Customers were receiving an average discount of 60%, up from 38% a decade earlier.





> Mr. Johnson lost his job after he abandoned the discount system abruptly in favor of everyday low prices and sales plunged. But retail executives said he hit on an important insight, that prices had lost their integrity.





> Retailers, having trained customers to shop for deals, are stuck with the strategy for now. Macy's tried to cut back on coupons in 2007.
> "Customers stopped shopping," said Chief Executive Terry Lundgren, "so we knew that was a bad idea,"


Another example of this is the consignment model used in trad. publishing. Under the consignment model, stores order an excess of books. Whatever they don't sell they return to the publisher for full credit.

This practice was started because of the Great Depression. It continues because publishers who tried to end it lost business. The practice costs publishers a lot of money, but they can't stop it.

If people come to expect exorbitantly low prices for eBooks, it could have repercussions for a long time to come which no one will be able to correct. Price low I guess, whatever works. It looks very good for the short term. Not so good for the long term.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

A.R. Williams said:


> Or it could be because they genuinely do not want to see pricing get so skewed readers come to expect that all novels should be priced in the cellar. For those who think readers can't be trained on prices and pricing I'd like to link to this article:
> 
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dirty-secret-black-friday-discounts-164003307.html
> 
> ...


Well, this is exactly why Amazon has created strong upward pressure (in multiple ways) to set the pricing floor at $2.99+. It's in most people's best interests to price at least that high. It's a pretty great system they've set up, all things told.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Bruce Rousseau said:


> None of us are going anywhere (money wise) without fans. Focus on them, not price.
> * Produce a quality product
> * Get visibility
> * Gather your fans around you
> ...


I think these are two important points. Fans, get them. And note closely what Amazon is doing.

Again, thank you, Bruce, for all of the work that went into those charts.


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## GUTMAN (Dec 22, 2011)

EelKat said:


> Yes, this is something that has been weighing heavily on my mind lately, especially these past few weeks as I get closer and closer to the release date for my first ebooks. I've been in print for years, but never ebooks yet and I'm trying to figure out how to go about setting ebook prices, as they are not priced using the same formulas as for print books.
> 
> The problem for me is compounded by the fact that I don't write novels I write short stories, so that's a whole different pricing method as well.
> 
> ...


I'd also like to question the statement that "there is no market for a romance under 30K words." I'm just not sure that's true. Anybody out there selling a romance novelette <30k words?


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## A.R. Williams (Jan 9, 2011)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> Well, this is exactly why Amazon has created strong upward pressure (in multiple ways) to set the pricing floor at $2.99+. It's in most people's best interests to price at least that high. It's a pretty great system they've set up, all things told.


$2.99 IS the cellar. $.99 cents IS the cellar.

You want to know how skewed the attitude is...

$.99 cents is viewed as an impulse buy!

$2.99 is viewed as an impulse buy!

Do you know what a lot indies like to say about the $1.99 price point--a price point that is sandwiched between $.99 cents and $2.99 (and is therefore an impulse buy!). They say it doesn't make sense as a price. They say it's a black hole. I think that shows a desire to price at the lowest point possible (not just to price low). One price being the lowest for the 35% option, the other the lowest for the 70% option.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

A.R. Williams said:


> $2.99 IS the cellar. $.99 cents IS the cellar.
> 
> You want to know how skewed the attitude is...
> 
> ...


What is the problem with an impulse buy? Who cares what we call it? At $2.99, its $2 in the authors pocket.

Lots of independent authors say lots of things. So what?


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> It's a lot like real estate, I think. Sellers get hung up on what they think their house "should" be worth: what they paid for it, how much time/effort/money they put into it, etc. "Look at this carpeting! This is wool!" None of which is going to make it sell for a penny more (as I sadly know all too well from selling two houses in down markets, sigh). It's worth what it's worth to a buyer.


What she said.



Victorine said:


> I have no problem with authors pricing higher. I have no problem with authors pricing lower. Whatever works for them.
> 
> What I have a problem with is someone telling others they should or should not do something. Why force everyone into the same mold? We should be able to do our own market research, test our our own prices, and figure out what earns us the most by ourselves.


And what she said.

And Monique, thanks for sharing that data link. It confirms the pricing I've long believed is optimum for my length and genre: the $2.99-$4.99 range. Judging by how Amazon prices their imprint for the genre, they seem to agree.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Bruce Rousseau said:


> Looking at my charts (http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html), I see 2 types of readers: 1) Readers that focus on price. 2) Readers that focus on their favorite authors or a compelling book, regardless of price. Both of these reader types are driving books into Amazon's best seller lists.


Firstly, thank you much for the charts. They are very comprehensive and cover all the genres I write in and more. Thanks again.

Putting on my reader hat, I'm in the #2 camp. I focus on my favorite authors and I buy their books no matter what the prices are (of course, I often wait for sales). But if I don't like them anymore, I stop reading them, and I stop buying their books. Otherwise I'm a loyal reader until they stop writing.



Bruce Rousseau said:


> The charts also show that large publishers are not competing with indie / small press on price. Not yet. Yes, major publishers are drifting below the $9.99 price, but they rarely go below $4.99 for an ebook. And the independents are mostly clustered between $3.99 and $0.99.
> 
> It's a turf war. Indies have captured the price sensitive readers. Major publishers have captured readers who want A-list authors.


The turf war is here. Check out this article that popped into my mailbox today from Publishers Weekly. Zondervan, owned by HarperCollins, is now competing at the $3.99 level with new contemporary novellas coming out monthly beginning this month. Not only that, they're bundling the novellas every 3 months, just like self-publishers would do at regular intervals. Might they be lurking on this board picking up ideas and methods and modus operandi?

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/content-and-e-books/article/60168-zondervan-unveils-weddings-focused-e-series.html

"Zondervan will be publishing a collection of contemporary wedding stories by *bestselling* romance writers, *released monthly* as digital *novellas*... The novellas are *priced at $3.99*, and beginning in fall 2014, the digital releases will be collected into *seasonal print compilations every three months*." - Publisher's Weekly


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

The other day I was in a Ralph's, because I'm the kind of guy who shops at Ralph's and not Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, and they were selling whole pineapples for $0.99. I didn't know what pineapples at Ralph's normally cost--turns out it's $2.99; seriously, I checked yesterday because I was curious--but I knew that a pineapple for $0.99 was an awesome deal, and I love pineapple.

Even though I went to the store with no intention of buying pineapple, it was like I had no choice but to put it in my cart. I swear a third of the people in produce were wandering around with a pineapple.

I'm not foolish enough to think "dude who shops at Ralph's and likes pineapple but not enough to buy it every time he's at the store" is 100% of people who need to eat to survive. Surely it is at best a fraction of the food-eating public. But it was a very instructive experience nonetheless.

P.S. The other eerily metaphorical part of this transaction is I'm not a guy who buys whole pineapples. I buy them in cans (sliced in rings, because even when I cut them up they stay together better than the chunks--I use a lot of pineapple) for like $1.69, because it's been adequate. But my purchase of an impulse-priced whole pineapple was so positive that, if you were to stick a survey in front of me, I would mark that I am "significantly more likely" to buy a whole pineapple in the future.

Again.. a sample size of one. But it was a pretty spooky experience, considering what I do for a living.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> What is the problem with an impulse buy? Who cares what we call it? At $2.99, its $2 in the authors pocket.
> 
> Lots of independent authors say lots of things. So what?


But then, if they impulse buy, will they read it? And if they don't read it, they won't tell their friends.The name of the game is word of mouth - that's where the real money is.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> The other day I was in a Ralph's, because I'm the kind of guy who shops at Ralph's and not Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, and they were selling whole pineapples for $0.99. I didn't know what pineapples at Ralph's normally cost--turns out it's $2.99; seriously, I checked yesterday because I was curious--but I knew that a pineapple for $0.99 was an awesome deal, and I love pineapple.


Therein is the catch. It was _on sale_ for $0.99. It wasn't originally listed as $0.99 (as are many selfpubbed books). The pineapple had an original list price of $2.99 which would have been a bigger margin, but when it goes on sale for $0.99, it's psychological. Buyers say -- wow! I save $2!! In fact if I were there, I would've bought 3 pineapples -- and then I'd be wondering what to do with them... but they were on sale!!!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

JanThompson said:


> Therein is the catch. It was _on sale_ for $0.99. It wasn't originally listed as $0.99 (as are many selfpubbed books). The pineapple had an original list price of $2.99 which would have been a bigger margin, but when it goes on sale for $0.99, it's psychological. Buyers say -- wow! I save $2!! In fact if I were there, I would've bought 3 pineapples -- and then I'd be wondering what to do with them... but they were on sale!!!


Well, if your other books are priced higher, then yeah, the 99-cent one is clearly a "deal." And it works! (for me, anyway). That's my bottom line.

And I love the pineapple story. LOL.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> But then, if they impulse buy, will they read it? And if they don't read it, they won't tell their friends.The name of the game is word of mouth - that's where the real money is.


I'm missing something. Why wouldn't they read it, if they bought it?


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> I'm missing something. Why wouldn't they read it, if they bought it?


Same reason I have a drawer full of cable ties in every color in the rainbow: every time I see a package of 50 on sale for a buck at Home Depot, I have to get some. I'll never use them all, but I got a [email protected] good deal.

(Don't ask about the drawer full of fingernail clippers)


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Rosalind James said:


> I'm missing something. Why wouldn't they read it, if they bought it?


Yeah, that. I snap up sales all the time. Not sure if I call that impulse buys. I am still looking first what I am buying and its stuff I would read. I also eventually read the books I buy. There is no expiration date on the books, there is no laws to tell me I have to read them in the next 2 months. I read them when I get to them. When I am in the mood for a particular book. I have some books still unread going back to 2008. I just read one that I bought in 2009.

I think the issue is more about being impatient. On the side of the author that is. Many reader don't read everything they buy right away. Some stuff yes, I read as soon as it comes out, but most stuff, no. 
I read posts here sometimes of some having a sale or a freebie and 4 days later they wonder why there aren't a lot of reviews, or why the next in the series isn't selling yet. We readers don't live in this vacuum were only your books exist.

Best thing you can do is create urgency. If your book is always 99 cents or even free every 3 months, then there is no urgency. If its usually 4.99 and I see a sale for 99 cents I will take a much closer look. I'll get it then if its something I want to read. That is how I feed my voracious book habit. I buy books on sale all year. And if I get a book on sale for 99 cents and I love the author, I go and buy the rest of their stuff, even if that is 3.99-4.99.


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## 58907 (Apr 3, 2012)

Gutman said:


> I'd also like to question the statement that "there is no market for a romance under 30K words." I'm just not sure that's true. Anybody out there selling a romance novelette <30k words?


I just released my first, A THANKFUL LOVE, last weekend and have sold hundreds of copies. It's actually the best launch of all my titles. I'll be releasing another novelette in December. There are plenty of stories, especially in the interracial/multicultural romance genre, that are 35 pages, 70 pages, and 46--like mine. Most are priced at $2.99, which is the price point I plan to use after Black Friday
(as advertised on the product page). Interestingly enough, I just received a good review, but the reviewer added that $2.99 would be too expensive for my length. Go figure.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Martitalbott said:


> But then, if they impulse buy, will they read it? And if they don't read it, they won't tell their friends.The name of the game is word of mouth - that's where the real money is.


I don't know. Who here does? What percent of impulse buys are read? What percent of non-impulse buys? How do we know?



> Same reason I have a drawer full of cable ties in every color in the rainbow: every time I see a package of 50 on sale for a buck at Home Depot, I have to get some. I'll never use them all, but I got a [email protected] good deal.


What's the reason and how does it apply to books purchased at $2.99?


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Martitalbott said:


> But then, if they impulse buy, will they read it? And if they don't read it, they won't tell their friends.The name of the game is word of mouth - that's where the real money is.


Some will, some won't. That's pretty clear based off of the stats from those if us who have low price leaders. The question is do you sell more and make more overall with a low cost leader than you do without one? For me the answer is yes, I sell more books and make more money. All of the hugely successful authors I know have freebies or low cost leaders. They can't all be wrong.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

Bruce Rousseau said:


> Looking at my charts (http://brucerousseau.com/AmazonData.html), I see 2 types of readers: 1) Readers that focus on price. 2) Readers that focus on their favorite authors or a compelling book, regardless of price. Both of these reader types are driving books into Amazon's best seller lists.


I think it's important to note that neither readers nor authors must be defined as or relegated to one or the other category. Given this, it's incumbent upon writers to publish strategically to make the most of both types of readers. Write the best book possible and price it competitively (low) to capture the market focused on price and convert them into faithful fans willing to pay more for your other books.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

ChrisWard said:


> I'm currently weighing up putting a 600 page novel perma free. I don't want to, but part two of the trilogy will be out on the 16th and part three in January. With both #2 and #3 priced at $4.99 it might be worth it. Hell, at the moment it doesn't sell more than a couple of copies a month whether its $4.99 or $0.99.
> 
> I think my point is, you have to be flexible and try different things. Do I like the idea of giving away a 600 page book for free? No. I'd like to sell it at $9.99. However, if I get enough people buying #2 and #3 it might be worth it.


Emotionally it's hard to give away a 600 page book, but looked at logically from a business standpoint, what are you risking by going permafree? If you're only selling a few copies lets say 10 a month, that's about $25. Call that part of your promo budget for the month and only spend another $75 instead of the full $100 you usually spend (or whatever your budget is for that) per month. Permafree works. I wouldn't set it free until a few weeks before #3 comes out. I sell all mine at $4.99 after the initial permafree.

BTW. When experimenting on price I found there is always a scary slowdown of sales when you push price up because the readers think you'll come down in a couple of weeks. Give it a month or two and sales return to their previous numbers in my own experience.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Edward M. Grant said:


> Same reason I have about 250 computer games in my Steam account and have played about half of them and finished about a quarter. Most of them cost $5 or less in Steam sales, so I bought them with the intention of playing them one day, but one day may take a while to get here.


Yup. This.

Authors and publishers would both be better served if they could leg go completely their egos and celebrate the idea of people buying books they never read. There's value in selection. Value in stockpiling.

I poll people in public all the time. When I see someone with an e-reader, I politely interrupt them and ask about their reading habits. I do this like I've never used an e-reader and I'm curious. I find this attitude gets them really evangelizing how awesome the e-reader is and telling you all kinds of details about how and what they read. Having lived in airports this year, I've got a sample size of over 100. (Low estimate. With over 50 flights, I know I've spoken with more than 2 people per flight). One of the things I like to ask is: "So, do you just buy a couple of books before you head off on vacation?" Every single person I ask this to has said some variation of: "Oh, yeah, I just load up. I never get to them all, but it's great. I can carry hundreds of books with me!"

Other interesting observations:

Young people do not use e-readers. They prefer books or cell phones. They don't even like tablets.
Older readers LOVE the adjustable font size and the weight of the e-reader while reading in bed. I would have thought these would be the other way around, but they are consistently skewed toward older readers.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Hugh Howey said:


> Other interesting observations:
> 
> Young people do not use e-readers. They prefer books or cell phones. They don't even like tablets.
> Older readers LOVE the adjustable font size and the weight of the e-reader while reading in bed. I would have thought these would be the other way around, but they are consistently skewed toward older readers.


This! I wonder if this has to do with access to an e-reader or other factors. I've read a ton of books on my phone alone. At the time I did not have my iPad available while traveling. Wondering if its a mix of necessity and choice. Everyone seems to have a phone. Not everyone can afford a reader. Plus no one thinks twice about someone looking at their phone in a work environment, while a reader would be more visible and challenged.

Chrispy


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Wild Rivers said:


> I agree with you. Higher priced books sell better so I don't sell anything less than $2.99 and don't exceed $4.99 since is a price that works for novels.
> 
> Books that sell too low are frequently regarded as low quality.


My best selling books by a long way are the 99c ones


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2013)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> My best selling books by a long way are the 99c ones


I think you have to look at genre. .99 books on the top 100 list are more common in some genres more so than others. That is no reflection on quality of the genre itself. In fantasy, for indie books $2.99-$4.99 is typical. .99 for specials. There are a few indie authors who charge more and sell a lot of books. Mitchel Hogan comes to mind. Of course, he has one of the best indie covers I've ever seen on an indie book and it is combined with a number of stellar reviews.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

Okay this thread has convinced me, I am going to release my next book at $9,999,999,999,999.99 USD. That way even with 35% royalty I only need to sell 1 copy and be set as an author for rest of my natural life.  (note, the marketing power of nines! muahahahah!). 



I have been tempted to release my books at higher prices in B&N, Apple and other non-amazon markets to see if I sell better since Amazon right now dominates my monthly checks. Do other stores price match as aggressively as Amazon?


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Hugh Howey said:


> Older readers LOVE the adjustable font size and the weight of the e-reader while reading in bed. I would have thought these would be the other way around, but they are consistently skewed toward older readers.


Word!

Anecdotal, but to the point: 
My mother isn't as spry as she once was. She LOVES her Kindle because it makes those huge, heavy tomes accessible to her once again. 
Price, schmice. I helped her get going with her library, including a tour of where she can find free stuff, and the first thing she downloaded was a $10 book that she had previously read.

My main impression about price range is that it very much depends on genre and target audience. By that alone, we cannot assume that there is one magic formula.


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## boo4321 (Nov 21, 2013)

Deanna Chase said:


> Some will, some won't. That's pretty clear based off of the stats from those if us who have low price leaders. The question is do you sell more and make more overall with a low cost leader than you do without one? For me the answer is yes, I sell more books and make more money. All of the hugely successful authors I know have freebies or low cost leaders. They can't all be wrong.


This is the key--having a free or 99 cent loss leader is about moving massive amounts of volume. So yes, maybe a lower PERCENTAGE of buyers will actually read the book and/or go on to purchase the second one immediately, but for many authors (not all, I'm sure, but many, considering how popular this strategy is) this ends up equating to higher NUMBERS of people going on to buy later books in the series. I'd much rather have a lower read-through rate on my series (though as others have pointed out, this is very hard to measure--but if it takes someone years to get to my first book and they go on to buy the second in 2019 or something, I'll still take it!) but higher overall purchase numbers. More money to support this little writing dream.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

VydorScope said:


> Okay this thread has convinced me, I am going to release my next book at $9,999,999,999,999.99 USD. That way even with 35% royalty I only need to sell 1 copy and be set as an author for rest of my natural life.  (note, the marketing power of nines! muahahahah!).
> 
> 
> 
> I have been tempted to release my books at higher prices in B&N, Apple and other non-amazon markets to see if I sell better since Amazon right now dominates my monthly checks. Do other stores price match as aggressively as Amazon?


You know, that's something I hadn't thought of. No, other booksellers don't price match, not that I know of. If they did, it would be a giant price war. Raising your price in a venue you are not currently selling many in, sounds like an excellent way to test the waters. If you try it, I hope you will report your findings.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

Edward W. Robertson said:


> Well, this is exactly why Amazon has created strong upward pressure (in multiple ways) to set the pricing floor at $2.99+. It's in most people's best interests to price at least that high. It's a pretty great system they've set up, all things told.


Dunno about that.
With the Countdown deal Amazon seems to have started a whole new rush to the bottom of the price tiers, once again convincing readers to hold out for the deals before purchasing.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Quiss said:


> Dunno about that.
> With the Countdown deal Amazon seems to have started a whole new rush to the bottom of the price tiers, once again convincing readers to hold out for the deals before purchasing.


I haven't seen that, what are you seeing?


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

VydorScope said:


> Okay this thread has convinced me, I am going to release my next book at $9,999,999,999,999.99 USD. That way even with 35% royalty I only need to sell 1 copy and be set as an author for rest of my natural life.  (note, the marketing power of nines! muahahahah!).


I noticed that your new price ends with 99c. Is that a throwback to the glory days of self-publishing?


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> With the Countdown deal Amazon seems to have started a whole new rush to the bottom of the price tiers, once again convincing readers to hold out for the deals before purchasing.


I agree with those that think that the purpose of the Countdown deal is to reduce the number of free books. It is better for Amazon to get some money than none.

As far as convincing readers to hold out for the deals, I see no evidence of this since this month has been one of the best months I have had in a long time.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

VydorScope said:


> I have been tempted to release my books at higher prices in B&N, Apple and other non-amazon markets to see if I sell better since Amazon right now dominates my monthly checks.


You can do this if you go through Smashwords or Draft2Digital, but if you go direct then you are subject to the other retailers' *terms of service, all of which specify you must not price higher there than anywhere else*.

So far, Amazon is the only vendor we are aware of that enforces this part of their terms of service, but all the vendors have this in their terms of service.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Just to point out the obvious here, this idea of "Hey guys, we should all agree to raise our prices, re-set customer expectations, and all make more," when done "for real" as I am not suggesting is happening here, has many names. Price-fixing, collusion, cartel. All of them illegal tactics in the U.S., and notoriously ineffective, because of the obvious inducement for rogue members to break out, take advantage of the others' adherence to the scheme, and price lower, thereby owning the low-price share of the market.

Well, unless you're OPEC. It works for them. But otherwise, trying to get others to go along with raising prices across the board is historically and notoriously futile. Companies follow their own strategies, some of them successfully, some not, depending how well they integrate their pricing strategy with the rest of their branding and marketing, and how great the underlying demand is for their product. 

Just a little macro look at the whole deal. Happy day-after thanksgiving to everyone. 

Dang, I've had to edit this 3x. Why you shouldn't try to be thoughtful on your iPhone in a coffee shop after emerging from a major food coma.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

I just lowered the price of my bundle from $5.99 to $4.99 and sales have already picked up. The first one is permafree, which helps.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

I've noticed the big pubs are playing around with price quite a bit more lately. Even with big names like John Grisham. Have to say I wasn't happy to see his newest book on sale for 6 something a week after I'd bought it for 11.99.  And last week, they cut the price in half again to 3.29.  Kind of a slap in the face to the most loyal people who bought the book when it first came out at full price. 

So, when I released my first book last week, I priced it at .99, as there's really no where to go but up from there.   Well, unless I do a free promo at some point I suppose.  

I've heard from a few authors who release their new books at .99 for just a few days, as a thank you to loyal fans and family and then put it to 2.99 or 3.99 after that. I kind of like that idea.  

I still haven't decided if I am going to put this first book in select or not.  One thing I really love about self-publishing is being able to decide in an instant if I want to change a price or run an ad or update a description.


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> Just to point out the obvious here, this idea of "Hey guys, we should all agree to raise our prices, re-set customer expectations, and all make more," when done "for real" as I am not suggesting is happening here, has many names. Price-fixing, collusion, cartel. All of them illegal tactics in the U.S., and notoriously ineffective, because of the obvious inducement for rogue members to break out, take advantage of the others' adherence to the scheme, and price lower, thereby owning the low-price share of the market.
> 
> Well, unless you're OPEC. It works for them. But otherwise, trying to get others to go along with raising prices across the board is historically and notoriously futile. Companies follow their own strategies, some of them successfully, some not, depending how well they integrate their pricing strategy with the rest of their branding and marketing, and how great the underlying demand is for their product.
> 
> ...


Price fixing? That was good for a chuckle. Considering the number of people on this thread who think I've completely lost my mind, I don't think we are in danger of that.

I started this thread because I long for intelligent conversation occasionally.
I truly think people should consider selling at higher prices.
I enjoy rattling a few cages and in return have seen some very interesting comments and ideas.

Lastly, you don't have to agree with me to be my friend.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

PamelaKelley said:


> So, when I released my first book last week, I priced it at .99, as there's really no where to go but up from there.  Well, unless I do a free promo at some point I suppose.
> 
> I've heard from a few authors who release their new books at .99 for just a few days, as a thank you to loyal fans and family and then put it to 2.99 or 3.99 after that. I kind of like that idea.


I've been releasing a book a month. I take out discovery day ads at KB a few days before the end of the month, price the book at 99 cents, then raise the price to $2.99 on the first of the month. It gives me a nice little boost every month.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Martitalbott said:


> Lastly, you don't have to agree with me to be my friend.


That's really nice, Marti. Thanks. Let me say again that I wasn't suggesting you were advocating price-fixing. This is exactly the kind of market where it would be most ineffective. I think the phrase "herding cats" would be apropos here!


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

PamelaKelley said:


> I've heard from a few authors who release their new books at .99 for just a few days, as a thank you to loyal fans and family and then put it to 2.99 or 3.99 after that. I kind of like that idea.


Hey, I did this with the latest book! I'd seen someone else do it once, and I thought, hmm, that's an interesting strategy. I thought it would be, just as you say, a nice way to say "thanks" to the wonderful people who buy right away, and also (I confess) that it might induce more people TO buy right away, move the book up the charts, and give it some extra visibility. Worked great. Sold about 600 copies on those first 99-cent days and has been my strongest performer out of the gate ever since. (It's been $3.99 since that intro.)

As you say, pricing high at first and then lowering seems like the opposite: an insult to your most loyal readers. I'm not Grisham, and I really need those folks!

(I also let people know via Facebook & Twitter if I'm going to have a promotion, well in advance, so if they were planning to buy & read that book, they can hold off. For example, with that latest book, I knew I was going to do a free promo on Book 1 in the series, so I told people about it weeks in advance, in case they'd been waiting to read Book 1 until Book 2 was out. A few people waited, most went ahead and read Book 1 first to "get ready" for Book 2, but I think they appreciated that I told them. It let them know that I respect that they have book-buying budgets, and it's not just about me putting money in my pocket. Which I think is good business practice too. I've been surprised by how many readers now want some kind of personal sense of an author, some sort of personal relationship, if only via social media. And I figure, since I write feel-good stuff, it's better to come across as a feel-good sort of person. Of course, in actuality . . . mwah ha ha ha.)


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Rosalind James said:


> Hey, I did this with the latest book! I'd seen someone else do it once, and I thought, hmm, that's an interesting strategy. I thought it would be, just as you say, a nice way to say "thanks" to the wonderful people who buy right away, and also (I confess) that it might induce more people TO buy right away, move the book up the charts, and give it some extra visibility. Worked great. Sold about 600 copies on those first 99-cent days and has been my strongest performer out of the gate ever since. (It's been $3.99 since that intro.)
> 
> As you say, pricing high at first and then lowering seems like the opposite: an insult to your most loyal readers. I'm not Grisham, and I really need those folks!


Absolutely agree and that's what I'm doing with my new release next week. RE high-to-low it's a pretty bad deal for loyal readers - http://dearauthor.com/features/letters-of-opinion/why-i-think-price-promotions-backfire/


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Wansit said:


> Absolutely agree and that's what I'm doing with my new release next week. RE high-to-low it's a pretty bad deal for loyal readers - http://dearauthor.com/features/letters-of-opinion/why-i-think-price-promotions-backfire/


Terrific article. Thanks for sharing.

Oh, just an added note since you're going to do it: I put at the very start of the description, in bold, something like:
Three days only: 99 cents! Price returns to $3.99 after opening weekend.
And then counted down each day: two days only, final day, final hours. Since I can't show a "regular price" on Amazon. I think it helped.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

> Authors and publishers would both be better served if they could leg go completely their egos and celebrate the idea of people buying books they never read. There's value in selection. Value in stockpiling.


God Bless every sale, each and every one. Shunning a sale because I don't think the consumer measures up to my high standards seems a path to ruin. It's just a book, but a dollar's a dollar.



> With the Countdown deal Amazon seems to have started a whole new rush to the bottom of the price tiers, once again convincing readers to hold out for the deals before purchasing.


Those consumers don't seem to match real life. They have continued to buy an inceasing number of books at and above $2.99 when many other books were 99 cents. They continued to buy when many other books were free. And thery continue to buy while Countdown is counting. Consumers continue to defy authors' claims about their training. I can believe training theory or my own lying eyes. The eyes have it!

And that bottom? Seems to be getting further and further away.



> Just to point out the obvious here, this idea of "Hey guys, we should all agree to raise our prices, re-set customer expectations, and all make more," when done "for real" as I am not suggesting is happening here, has many names. Price-fixing, collusion, cartel. All of them illegal tactics in the U.S., and notoriously ineffective, because of the obvious inducement for rogue members to break out, take advantage of the others' adherence to the scheme, and price lower, thereby owning the low-price share of the market.


And God Bless the price fixers who don't control production, for they bring prosperity to the undercutters.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Thank you for sharing Rosalind!


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

Terrence OBrien said:


> Consumers continue to defy authors' claims about their training. I can believe training theory or my own lying eyes. The eyes have it!


Meanwhile, my eyes are looking at the current Steam sale for computer games, and my brain is saying 'nah, they'll be cheaper at Christmas'.

I think the 'training' idea mostly applies to markets like games, where prices are expected to drop dramatically over time, so it's clearly a matter of buy now or buy cheaper later, and everyone knows that. Not so much for books, where prices tend to be stable other than short-term sales.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

I'm a fan of "release cheap, raise price later," too. My current thinkin' is I'll put out books in "established" series out at $2.99 and later raise to four or five bucks and start new series (or series that still need a lot of growth) at $0.99.

But my thinkin' has been known to change.

By the way, this has been an interesting discussion, and less adversarial than these price threads tend to be.


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## Eric Zawadzki (Feb 4, 2011)

Rosalind James said:


> Hey, I did this with the latest book! I'd seen someone else do it once, and I thought, hmm, that's an interesting strategy. I thought it would be, just as you say, a nice way to say "thanks" to the wonderful people who buy right away, and also (I confess) that it might induce more people TO buy right away, move the book up the charts, and give it some extra visibility. Worked great. Sold about 600 copies on those first 99-cent days and has been my strongest performer out of the gate ever since. (It's been $3.99 since that intro.)


We're planning to do something similar with our December release, too. While personally experiencing how long it takes for Sony to update prices (I'm experimenting with the price on Lesson) I discovered that Amazon puts a nice "suggested price" on their site with a line through it that makes it clear that it's a special/temporary price. Once my nearest and dearest have a chance to get their copies at the "introductory price," I'll bump it up, fully expecting Sony to take their sweet time to update while Amazon advertises the sale price for me.

It's like the "price match free" (remember that?) of the Amazon Countdown era.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Edward M. Grant said:


> Meanwhile, my eyes are looking at the current Steam sale for computer games, and my brain is saying 'nah, they'll be cheaper at Christmas'.
> 
> I think the 'training' idea mostly applies to markets like games, where prices are expected to drop dramatically over time, so it's clearly a matter of buy now or buy cheaper later, and everyone knows that. Not so much for books, where prices tend to be stable other than short-term sales.


I really don't know squat about games or their pricing. But I have an idea games become better and better with each release. So the games from four years ago are technically inferior to a game released today. This would be a function of both technology and software. At the extrreme, we have PacMan vs Call of Duty.

Books seem the opposite. A plain text book from twenty years ago is no different from a plain text book today. Technology does improve, but the reading experience is the same if we put both books on the same technology.

So my speculation is games have to deal with technical obsolescence while books don't. If so, that makes for a very different pricing structure.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

You know I saw when the John Grisham book went down.  I thought about getting it, then I thought no, that 3.29 will go a lot farther in an indie or two's pockets.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> You know I saw when the John Grisham book went down. I thought about getting it, then I thought no, that 3.29 will go a lot farther in an indie or two's pockets.


GOD BLESS YOU!


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> You know I saw when the John Grisham book went down. I thought about getting it, then I thought no, that 3.29 will go a lot farther in an indie or two's pockets.


Well, one of my favorite authors' ebook went down from $9.99 to $3.99 today and I snapped it up like an idiot. Considering I have the print copy from the library for FREE. And yet I fell for it. What to do, I love books!









http://www.pinterest.com/pin/353884483190930235/


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Just wanted to share something--

I have a book that is #22 in Romantic Suspense right now (hugs self while doing happy dance, which looks pretty stupid). I was curious just now and checked. Know how many of the Top 100 bestselling books in the Kindle store in Romantic Suspense cost over $3.99? 18. 

Yep, 18% of the top 100 Rom Suspense books are priced over $3.99. Most of those are $4.99, and almost all by hugely bestselling indie authors who can get $4.99 and still sell big. (Barbara Freethy et al.)

And if you price over $5.99 and want to be on the bestseller list? You can do that. If your name is Nora Roberts. 

On the other hand, I suspect the Science Fiction bestseller list, the Nonfiction bestseller list, the Contemporary Fiction bestseller list look completely different. In pricing, genre is king.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> In pricing, genre is king.


I can't agree more!!! I've been observing prices and come to the same conclusion too. And confirmed by Bruce Rousseau's charts.

BUT... what Smashwords said is that prices are going up across the board.

I do believe that in a lot of cases, $2.99 is the new 99c. But I may be wrong.


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## Russell Brooks (Dec 23, 2010)

Martitalbott said:


> Yep, I know why you sell them cheap and that there are many valid reasons to do so, but I have long been an advocate of higher prices.
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have my eBooks priced at $3.99 except for one short story at 99cents. I don't even do FREE promos anymore and I strongly discourage other authors from doing FREE KDP Select promos because those will only work against the author later on.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Just wanted to share something--
> 
> I have a book that is #22 in Romantic Suspense right now (hugs self while doing happy dance, which looks pretty stupid). I was curious just now and checked. Know how many of the Top 100 bestselling books in the Kindle store in Romantic Suspense cost over $3.99? 18.
> 
> ...


Yeah,but in epic fantasy 57% are over $3.99, 8% under $3.99 are well know big six authors having a holiday special, 7% are .99...it really depends on genre.


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> You know I saw when the John Grisham book went down. I thought about getting it, then I thought no, that 3.29 will go a lot farther in an indie or two's pockets.


  What a gracious way of thinking...


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## Michael Buckley (Jun 24, 2013)

When I was working in the middle east I went on vacation every three to four months and travel from my military base to get to my vacation spot took a week. Living in a tent or stuck in an airport. I read a lot during that time. I bought author name books who I enjoyed reading before and I paid as high as thirteen dollars a book, I would not pay more than that. I made 120,000 a year. It was normal to buy five to ten books before going on my vacation. I never read books, downloaded a few back then but did not read them. I did not like buying books at 2.99 and I preferred my books priced at 7.99, that was my sweet buying spot. That was two years ago. I bought a few at the lower price but preferred the higher price.I felt the 7.99 I would get a better book and the ones i bought were proof of that. Back then I did not like short stories I wanted full size books. Now that i am broke I only get free books. I were lucky serving in the military and then working indirectly for the military. I have a list of over a thousand books now that are best sellers from before. People donated books for the soldiers and I had at any time tons of paperback books just waiting to be picked up. Ebook format books I bought and things donated to the military. If you name the book and it was written over two or three years ago I probably have it. I would like to thank everyone who donated book for the people in war zones to read. I spent eight years of my life in war zones and another 3 1/2 guarding Nazi time war criminal-Rudolf Hess on four or five occasions.

The perks of working in a war zone I miss and the money I miss. I wish I was back working in a war zone, I am lost living in a place that is not working for the Military. I miss a lot of my Marine friends from over there.

I had a lot of books and even at that price some books I did not read until a year later. I bought indie author books if they had a topic that interested me. I bought the one I do not remember the title, Rotweiler Rescue? It was a great story and that is because I am a dog lover.

Many books at 0.99 go unread or read a year later. The same case can be said for higher price books if you're making a lot of money.

First I bought the authors I knew. I love Nora Roberts, W.E.B Griffin and Patterson and "Baddacii-his last book I read called Innocent", spelt wrong.

If you were one of my favorite authors the chances were high I would buy your book, next would be the topic I enjoyed to read, down on their luck and fall in love, Nora Roberts writes good stories about that. WWII Griffin has good books, his det books are not so great. Patterson has a lot of good books.


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