# Location-based services



## Zorrosuncle (Nov 11, 2008)

Hi --

I have this option turned on, and I have a wi-fi router in my home which takes its input from a cable modem.  Whenever, I try to use a location-based app such as a weather app or radio scanner, it tries to determine my location but is not successful.

What am I doing wrong.  The wi-fi signal is quite strong.

Regards,

ZU


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Yeah. . .I've not found that it works particularly well either at home. . . .it's a bit better when you're out and about and there are multiple wifi signals to sort of triangulate from.  Mind you, our neighbors all have WiFi too, but none of those signals are strong at all and all are locked. . . .not sure how that affects things.  

I would add that it's something that I'll definitely be sending feedback about. . . . .you can do that right from the Fire.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I've not had any luck, either on WiFi or 4G....

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I've not had any luck, either on WiFi or 4G....
> 
> Betsy


See, and it should definitely work better with 4G because it should be able to triangulate from cell towers.

That said, I'm not thrilled with the ATT coverage 'round here. . . I know it's supposed to be everywhere, but I was out near Dulles on Monday and Tuesday the building I was in was a total dead zone. I had to be right next to the windows to get anything and then it periodically dropped out. Verizon connectivity on my phone, though, was fine.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd heard ATT coverage was not great; but for $50, I can stand it.  We'll see what I do next year.

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> I'd heard ATT coverage was not great; but for $50, I can stand it. We'll see what I do next year.
> 
> Betsy


Yep. That's kind of what I figured. And, what with checking it out to make sure it worked on the weekend, and checking email and KB during lunch the last two days, I've used about 65 of my 250 MB allotment for the first month.


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Ann asked me to jump in here... I'm not an expert in this area - not got a Fire! but I'll tell you what I can...

Android (which is what is underneath the Kindle OS) has the ability to use a number of features to work out where you are, if those features are in the device (ie your tablet, phone or Fire).

In decreasing order of accuracy, these are:

1) GPS
2) Cell tower location (finds the cell towers nearest to you, and uses the locations of those towers to triangulate your position)
3) Wifi hotspot location.

With a Fire, of course, you are limited to wifi location only (assuming you haven't got the 4G version).

So how does it find locations with Wifi? I think this article holds the key: http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-20009223-265.html - they used Streetview, and are now using information gathered from android phones, to build a database of the location of wifi hotspots.

So how does that work? A wifi network has no idea where it is?

I think what happens is that when somebody uses one of the better location features (usually GPS 'cos most phones have that) and are simultaneously in range of a wifi hotspot, Google then use that information that the phone feeds to them to record that this wifi hotspot is just..... there!

Notice that the key here is hotspots, ie public wifi. They won't gather information about where private wifi routers are - because they only capture unsecured wifi and your home wifi is (hopefully) secured.

So, with your home wifi, there is no way for location sensing to work. You'd need public wifi hotspots or 4G.

Hope this helps!


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

Morf said:


> Ann asked me to jump in here... I'm not an expert in this area - not got a Fire! but I'll tell you what I can...
> 
> Android (which is what is underneath the Kindle OS) has the ability to use a number of features to work out where you are, if those features are in the device (ie your tablet, phone or Fire).
> 
> ...


Actually, Google's location based services *do *get your location from your personal/home wifi. It's collected from all of the Google cars working hard on our behalf to map the world. While they're mapping the world, they include the local wifi access points. This would include personal wifi access points that 'broadcast publicly'. Your personal/home wifi is publicly broadcasting if anyone can see it on a wifi device, whether or not they could access it without a password. (http://support.google.com/maps/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1725632)


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Thanks, Morf.  That actually makes a lot of sense.

And, while I know the Google cars troll the streets and have no doubt they record residential WiFi, if you've changed your router since they came around, I'm thinking that means they don't know about it.  And we have -- the google car was around at least 3 years ago and hasn't been back since and we have a different router and have changed the name of our network since then. 

Which come to think of it, probably explains why it worked before we did that router/network change just a week or two ago!  Though -- it didn't used to have the SSID broadcast either, so. . . . .  Hmmmm


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

Jesslyn has picked up an interesting point, I didn't realise that they were getting locations from personal wifi as well.

Interestingly, the page she links to, while explaining how to opt *out* of your wifi being used, also explains how you could opt *in* if you do want your wifi to provide location:

_"So, for example, one way to ensure that your changed SSID is submitted to Google quickly, open Google Maps on an Android Device with WiFi enabled, and use the My Location feature to establish a location fix in the vicinity of your WiFi access point."_

One other thing that I suppose we should make clear - wifi can only be used for coarse location - ie from your wifi signal, google could tell you that you are in your street. It could not be used for fine location - it could not be used to locate you as you walk around your house or garden, for instance, only GPS has anything like this level of accuracy.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Morf said:


> Jesslyn has picked up an interesting point, I didn't realise that they were getting locations from personal wifi as well.
> 
> Interestingly, the page she links to, while explaining how to opt *out* of your wifi being used, also explains how you could opt *in* if you do want your wifi to provide location:
> 
> ...


Hmm. Perhaps I'll try that on my Xoom. . . . . can't do it on a Fire 'cause don't have google maps. . . .


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## Morf (Nov 18, 2010)

...and although they don't explicitly say it, I think they rely on you having a more accurate location service (GPS or cellphone) to find your location, which they then apply to your wifi.


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