# Out of touch publishers



## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

I've been looking for some books by authors I like, and have found the Kindle prices of some to have skyrocketed over the last month or so. Today I discovered what most of them have in common: they all say "Hatchette Book Group" in the "Sold By" field.

Several weeks ago, _Still Life with Crows_ by Preston & Child was listed at around $7.00. Now it's $19.99! Paperback price: $7.99.

_Assumed Identity_ by David Morrell (first published in 1994) is now listed at $22.99 for the Kindle edition (pb at $6.95).

These people are just insane!

Mike


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

I wouldn't buy these ebooks until the price is lowered.  $23 is too much for an ebook, in my opinion.  I'd pay that much for a nice hardcover, because I know I'm also paying for the printing/binding/shipping costs... but not for an ebook.

There are plenty of other ebooks out there.  If you and others stop buying them, sooner or later, Hatchette will get the hint... or their authors will move elsewhere.


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## ginaf20697 (Jan 31, 2009)

I just can't bring myself to care too much anymore. Most of the time it just winds up saving me money because I'll either wait it out or just take the book out of the library. There are plenty of books out there for me to read.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

ginaf20697 said:


> I just can't bring myself to care too much anymore. Most of the time it just winds up saving me money because I'll either wait it out or just take the book out of the library. There are plenty of books out there for me to read.


Agreed. I just don't buy the overpriced ebook. If I really must read that book, I too would just borrow it from the library, or buy a cheap paperback. Otherwise I'll go find another ebook that costs under $10.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah, there's just too much around that's reasonably priced, or available from other sources (used book store, etc.) to spend much time worrying about outrageous pricing from a few.


Mike


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## Sean Sweeney (Apr 17, 2010)

Support the indies! They just want to be read, and their prices are very reasonable... or highway robbery, but it is what it is.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

John Fitch V said:


> Support the indies! They just want to be read, and their prices are very reasonable... or highway robbery, but it is what it is.


Agreed, John. I love how Kindle lets readers support the indies and discover great, affordable books... books they would NEVER have found before the Kindle age. Most indies sell their books for only a buck or two, and it takes only a click to buy them, so you really can't go wrong. If more readers keep doing this -- buying affordable books and supporting the indies -- they'll not only discover great new authors, they'll also force the big publishers to lower their prices, and we'll see far fewer ebooks for $20.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

DArenson said:


> I wouldn't buy these ebooks until the price is lowered. $23 is too much for an ebook, in my opinion. I'd pay that much for a nice hardcover, because I know I'm also paying for the printing/binding/shipping costs... but not for an ebook.
> 
> There are plenty of other ebooks out there. If you and others stop buying them, sooner or later, Hatchette will get the hint... or their authors will move elsewhere.


Shoot, I didn't even buy those prices when they were just in hardcover. With the way I read, I'd be broke in less than a year...


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## jesscscott (Aug 5, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> Shoot, I didn't even buy those prices when they were just in hardcover. With the way I read, I'd be broke in less than a year...


Me too. I like reading classics though, which can be gotten at really good prices (ironically) ^^.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I emailed one of my favorite authors today to inform them I would not be buying their latest book 
in e-format.  12.99.  PB 7.99.  I had a book budget before the agency model and I cannot increase 
that budge just because the publishers decide to raise prices.  
I had to do the same thing when gas prices went up.  Long car trips every few weekends had to be curtailed.
deb


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

We can't just not buy the e-book.  We also have to boycott the pb.  For some strange, twisted reason, I think they want us to abandon e-books and stick to paper.  

Finger Lickin' Fifteen is $12.99 and the pb is $8.99.  I'll just go back to One for the Money and start over again.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

You're exactly right, Gertie.  I refuse to get 15, although I'm dying to read it.  
My name is on a waiting list at the library.
deb


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

drenee said:


> You're exactly right, Gertie. I refuse to get 15, although I'm dying to read it.
> My name is on a waiting list at the library.
> deb


Another favorite series is Miss Julia by Ann B. Ross. Those prices are also set by the publisher and I won't buy any more. The paperback price is $5.58 and the K price is $9.99.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> We can't just not buy the e-book. We also have to boycott the pb. For some strange, twisted reason, I think they want us to abandon e-books and stick to paper.
> 
> Finger Lickin' Fifteen is $12.99 and the pb is $8.99. I'll just go back to One for the Money and start over again.


The pb for Fifteen hasn't been released; the release date is June 22nd--hence, the price comparison probably should be to the Hardcover version. (yes, it's still probably overpriced, it should be $9.99)

Don't get me wrong, I still think the publishers are shooting themselves in the foot with some of these price increases. But when we're comparing prices, it really is important to check the dates on those releases as well. In this case, it's hard to say how bad the discrepancy will be until the PB is actually available. Fourteen, by comparison, IS out in PB at $7.99 both for the print and ebook editions. It's a fair bet that with a short time of the PB release of Fifteen, the ebook price will drop to match the PB.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I hope you're right, Victoria.  I've been watching several books I have on my shopping list and the e-book prices of about 80% of them are above the paperback price.  Even on some very old books.  

deb


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

I have only purchased $9.99 or less ebooks since the big brouhaha.  So so, sosososo glad I purchased the full series to the ones I was reading.  Unfortunately, for now it seems I will be missing out on the new ones coming out for the Dexter and Sookie Stackhouse series.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

What is the Dexter series?


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

A book series by Jeff Lindsay that the Showtime TV series Dexter is based on.

http://www.amazon.com/Darkly-Dreaming-Dexter-ebook/dp/B000FCK8ZK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1271540693&sr=8-1-catcorr


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## Candee15 (Jan 31, 2010)

As an Indie author, I sooooo agree with everyone here.  One of the best things that has happened to me since I've published my book is discovering OTHER Indie authors.  I have found some wonderful books at reasonable prices.  That means I can buy and read a LOT more than I would have been able to this year. 

What bothers me most is that traditionally published authors are not benefiting enough from the high prices.  Only the publishers are.  This reminds me of what happened with the music industry, and we pretty much saw that mess unfold before our eyes.  Soooooooo, I'll stay in my little corner of the world and self-publish and support Indie authors and buy their books ... and buy mainstream eBooks when the price is right.

Happy reading!!!


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## worktolive (Feb 3, 2009)

Lynn - Your book looks interesting, so I just downloaded a sample. If I like the sample I'll definitely buy a copy. It's so much easier to try out an unknown author when the price is right. 

Regarding traditionally published authors, if this new pricing scheme was a result of the publishers wanting to pay a bigger royalty, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, in the calculations I've seen, the authors get just about the same amount of money, if not even a bit less under the new pricing.


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## Andra (Nov 19, 2008)

I think "out of touch" is a very good descriptive phrase for those silly publishers.  My library is getting a LOT of business from me since I just won't play their games.  As others have mentioned, I am reading more indie authors and going back to the classics for a good part of my purchases because the prices are better.


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## Candee15 (Jan 31, 2010)

worktolive said:


> Lynn - Your book looks interesting, so I just downloaded a sample. If I like the sample I'll definitely buy a copy. It's so much easier to try out an unknown author when the price is right.
> 
> Regarding traditionally published authors, if this new pricing scheme was a result of the publishers wanting to pay a bigger royalty, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, in the calculations I've seen, the authors get just about the same amount of money, if not even a bit less under the new pricing.


Oh, that's wonderful. I so hope you'll enjoy the sample because the book is a lot of fun. I would appreciate your feedback, too!

Lynn


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## J.R. Rain Author (Apr 9, 2010)

$23 for an e-book is strange. Maybe it's a mistake?


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Mr. Rain, it is a mistake, IMHO.  A conscious mistake the publishers are making.  
deb


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Tom Bergeron just published a book and I thought it would be something I'd like to read.

Kindle Edition
$11.99
Available for download now.

Published April 7, 2009
Hardcover
$17.15

Published April 7, 2009
Paperback
$10.11
This title will be released on May 4, 2010. Pre-order now!
Published May 4, 2010

A little confusing, but the upshot is, the paperback is almost $2 less than the e-book.  

Sorry, Tom, won't be buying your book.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Tom Bergeron just published a book and I thought it would be something I'd like to read.
> 
> Kindle Edition
> $11.99
> ...


But, the question this does not yet answer is: what will the Kindle price be when the paperback is released? Right now (until May 4) the only DTB version you can get is the hardcover at $17.15, while you can get the Kindle version at $11.99 (about 30% off the hardcover price, which when you think about it, probably easily covers the difference in production/distribution). It may well be that on May 4, when the paperback is released, the e-book price will drop accordingly. I don't _know_ that it will, but it usually does in such cases, but they do not provide a mechanism to pre-order e-books at anticipated reduced price points.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

NogDog said:


> But, the question this does not yet answer is: what will the Kindle price be when the paperback is released? Right now (until May 4) the only DTB version you can get is the hardcover at $17.15, while you can get the Kindle version at $11.99 (about 30% off the hardcover price, which when you think about it, probably easily covers the difference in production/distribution). It may well be that on May 4, when the paperback is released, the e-book price will drop accordingly. I don't _know_ that it will, but it usually does in such cases, but they do not provide a mechanism to pre-order e-books at anticipated reduced price points.


Even it it goes down to paperback price, I won't be buying it. That's still way to high. Just my opinion.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Even it it goes down to paperback price, I won't be buying it. That's still way to high. Just my opinion.


That's your prerogative, by all means. However, that may be a "trade" paperback, judging by the dimensions, so there may yet be a "mass market" paperback at a still lower price some time in the future. (I'm not trying to defend the publisher, just trying to look at the whole picture. Ultimately all any of us can do is to talk with our wallets while we wait for the 10 years or so when e-books become the primary revenue stream for book publishers instead of an afterthought.)


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Tom Bergeron just published a book and I thought it would be something I'd like to read.
> 
> Kindle Edition
> $11.99
> ...


To be fair, the paperback isn't out yet. Check back on May 4.

My suspicion is there won't be a change, because the publishers rushed into this before there was any infrastructure to fully support the idea. It'll probably be a few days before the ebook price changes.

Has anyone noticed if publishers have actually dropped ebook prices after the paperback came out? Books where the paperback has come out in the last couple weeks?


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## worktolive (Feb 3, 2009)

Basilius said:


> Has anyone noticed if publishers have actually dropped ebook prices after the paperback came out? Books where the paperback has come out in the last couple weeks?


Well, I've been waiting for Sookie #9, Dead and Gone since it came out last year, but was not willing to pay $9.99 because I'd heard the book was really short. The MMPB came out on April 6 and the Kindle price dropped within a day or two to $7.19. I, of course, promptly bought it and read it.  I enjoyed it but it was very short so I'm glad I waited.

The publisher is Ace, which is weird because they are owned by Penguin and most Penguin books currently aren't even being offered for sale because they haven't settled with Amazon yet. I guess maybe Ace negotiates separately? This book doesn't say "Price set by publisher" so maybe it isn't a good example of the agency pricing. Funny, I've become much more aware of the various publishers in the last few months (and not in a good way).

Oh well, I'll just keep watching prices on the books I want and if they don't come down, I'll either be getting them through paperback swap or the used book store.


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## VictoriaP (Mar 1, 2009)

worktolive said:


> The publisher is Ace, which is weird because they are owned by Penguin and most Penguin books currently aren't even being offered for sale because they haven't settled with Amazon yet. I guess maybe Ace negotiates separately? This book doesn't say "Price set by publisher" so maybe it isn't a good example of the agency pricing. Funny, I've become much more aware of the various publishers in the last few months (and not in a good way).


Most Penguin books ARE still for sale. Only brand new releases, those "first time in print", are affected at this point. As the Sookie book you mentioned first came out last year, it isn't one of those impacted.


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## Casse (Oct 16, 2009)

Sookie #10 due out in May is now not even available for pre-order on Kindle  

I'm frustrated as I only have so much "down time" and prefer to read my favorite authors works during that time.


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## L.J. Sellers novelist (Feb 28, 2010)

Publishers are in a panic and trying to maintain the "value" of each book by maintaining the price. But the accessibility of cheap e-books will continue to expand, and they will have to find some middle ground. Meanwhile, it's the authors who get hurt by the price wars that result in reduced sales. For some interesting posts on this subject, check out Joe Konrath's blog.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com


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## jonconnington (Mar 20, 2010)

They're making the same mistake the music industry folks did when Napster first came out...and it will likely end up the same way.

Dunno whether to laugh or weep....


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

My new rule is if the kindle version is less than the lowest paper version then I buy it on Kindle, if not I drive to the half price bookstore. I feel bad for the authors but at least the pubs plan of switching me to new DTBs will fail


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## Trophywife007 (Aug 31, 2009)

L.J. Sellers said:


> For some interesting posts on this subject, check out Joe Konrath's blog.
> http://jakonrath.blogspot.com


Oh my gosh his blog was good. It should be required reading. I'm going to have to download some of his books!


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## redshift1 (Jun 20, 2009)

This might sound crazy but I'm trying to go a month reading samples only.....


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

Publishers had adequate warning that electronic media was coming- they watched the film, television, and music industries attempt to repress it (and lose). Instead of making plans, they assumed that it couldn't happen to them and just sat on their hands.

By pricing their ebooks high, they will make indie books more attractive to the ebook buying public.

Indie authors should all band together and send encouraging messages to the publishing industry. 'Fantastic strategy, folks. Keep it up!'


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## Gwood (Apr 3, 2010)

L.J. Sellers said:


> Publishers are in a panic and trying to maintain the "value" of each book by maintaining the price. But the accessibility of cheap e-books will continue to expand, and they will have to find some middle ground. Meanwhile, it's the authors who get hurt by the price wars that result in reduced sales. For some interesting posts on this subject, check out Joe Konrath's blog.
> http://jakonrath.blogspot.com


I agree. It's a desperate attempt to prop up an industry that is in desperate need of streamlining.


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## jesscscott (Aug 5, 2009)

Harclubs said:


> Publishers had adequate warning that electronic media was coming- they watched the film, television, and music industries attempt to repress it (and lose). Instead of making plans, they assumed that it couldn't happen to them and just sat on their hands.
> 
> By pricing their ebooks high, they will make indie books more attractive to the ebook buying public.
> 
> Indie authors should all band together and send encouraging messages to the publishing industry. 'Fantastic strategy, folks. Keep it up!'


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

Harclubs said:


> Publishers had adequate warning that electronic media was coming- they watched the film, television, and music industries attempt to repress it (and lose). Instead of making plans, they assumed that it couldn't happen to them and just sat on their hands.
> 
> By pricing their ebooks high, they will make indie books more attractive to the ebook buying public.
> 
> Indie authors should all band together and send encouraging messages to the publishing industry. 'Fantastic strategy, folks. Keep it up!'


Somewhere I heard a quote to the effect that right now there are six major publishers, and in ten years there will be six major publishers, but it's anybody's guess how many of those will be the same. Or what format they're publishing in.

I _think_ it was in The Reading Edge podcast episode that featured Seth Godin. But I'm not sure about that.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

I sincerely hope that the industry adapts and the financial fallout is contained. They just need to get their head around the fact that they no longer have to produce physical books for everything.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

An interesting article about the changing industry posted on the authonomy boards.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/04/26/100426fa_fact_auletta?currentPage=all

The launch of the iPad really shook things up.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Harclubs said:


> An interesting article about the changing industry posted on the authonomy boards.
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/04/26/100426fa_fact_auletta?currentPage=all
> 
> The launch of the iPad really shook things up.


This is the part I found interesting:

"Apple agreed to the agency model for just one year, and, as publishers are acutely aware, Jobs has a history, with music and television companies, of fighting to reduce prices. One publisher said, 'Maybe Apple will want to come back in a year and bite our heads off.' "

Mike


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## MCM (Apr 20, 2010)

I ran into a similar problem with the $11.99 Kindle edition costing more than the paperback (a wonderful "I must be reading this wrong" moment), so I wrote to the author in question and said I couldn't buy his book if it was priced like that.  I knew going in that he didn't set the prices himself, but I felt like it was important to register my complaint, so he'd know how people felt, and hopefully pass it on to his publisher.

And well... wow.  The answer was somewhat depressing.  He confirmed he had no control over pricing of ebooks, but if he did, he'd be pushing for a $4.99 price point.  He's stuck between a rock and a hard place: if you don't buy the Kindle version, it makes it look like ebooks are failing.  If you DO buy the Kindle version, it tells the publishers they can get away with this.  I suggested finding it second-hand and sending him the difference via PayPal, but that doesn't register as a sale, which is even worse for him that damaging his Kindle sales.  No official sales = bad news for his career.

The thing that worries me is that the inflated pricing isn't always logical... it seems like it's totally random.  If people avoid the books priced at $11.99, that could negatively impact a certain author's sales, which might mean they won't get another book contract in the future.  They have no say in the matter, but they pay the consequences when it goes wrong.  It's absurd that publishers are getting to experiment with business models at their authors' expense.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

John Fitch V said:


> Support the indies! They just want to be read, and their prices are very reasonable... or highway robbery, but it is what it is.


What he said.


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## DonnaFaz (Dec 5, 2009)

drenee said:


> Mr. Rain, it is a mistake, IMHO. A conscious mistake the publishers are making.
> deb


I completely agree with you, Deb.

~Donna~


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

MCM said:


> I ran into a similar problem with the $11.99 Kindle edition costing more than the paperback (a wonderful "I must be reading this wrong" moment), so I wrote to the author in question and said I couldn't buy his book if it was priced like that. I knew going in that he didn't set the prices himself, but I felt like it was important to register my complaint, so he'd know how people felt, and hopefully pass it on to his publisher.
> 
> And well... wow. The answer was somewhat depressing. He confirmed he had no control over pricing of ebooks, but if he did, he'd be pushing for a $4.99 price point. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place: if you don't buy the Kindle version, it makes it look like ebooks are failing. If you DO buy the Kindle version, it tells the publishers they can get away with this. I suggested finding it second-hand and sending him the difference via PayPal, but that doesn't register as a sale, which is even worse for him that damaging his Kindle sales. No official sales = bad news for his career.
> 
> The thing that worries me is that the inflated pricing isn't always logical... it seems like it's totally random. If people avoid the books priced at $11.99, that could negatively impact a certain author's sales, which might mean they won't get another book contract in the future. They have no say in the matter, but they pay the consequences when it goes wrong. It's absurd that publishers are getting to experiment with business models at their authors' expense.


I know exactly what you are saying!! I went to Amazon to buy Embers--a book I heard about on a review/blog. Well...the Kindle AND paperback were exactly the same. That meant I had to find 3 to 4 other books to get to the free shipping...or buy the Kindle version. BUT I didn't want to pay the same price for Kindle as for the paperback...my little head about exploded. I ended up not buying anything. I just left in frustration and read something I already had. And this is a book that isn't even overpriced (well, 7.99 for an ebook that is 7.99 in paperback bugged me.)

I'm cheap. I admit it. But still.


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## JimC1946 (Aug 6, 2009)

Harclubs said:


> Indie authors should all band together and send encouraging messages to the publishing industry. 'Fantastic strategy, folks. Keep it up!'


Amen to that!


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## Ben Lacy (Apr 20, 2010)

L.J. Sellers said:


> Publishers are in a panic and trying to maintain the "value" of each book by maintaining the price. But the accessibility of cheap e-books will continue to expand,


It's interesting that they're helping to diminish that value with all the free promotions. Sure, they may rope in people for future books, but everyone's going to expect to get the older books for free or at steep discounts. Someday, the most popular books and authors will be selling at a big premium, regardless of format, while everything else will be sold at a huge discount. People will pay any price for the next J.K. Rowling novel, but everything else - they'll be much more price sensitive about.


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## davidhburton (Mar 11, 2010)

I'm running a poll on my blog on this right now if anyone wants to vote. Basically it's two polls: one concerning prices of ebooks with DRM, and one without.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

jmiked said:


> Several weeks ago, _Still Life with Crows_ by Preston & Child was listed at around $7.00. Now it's $19.99! Paperback price: $7.99.


The price was down to $7.99 today.  

I bought it before the price could go up again.

Maybe my email to them brought a mistake to their attention.

Mike


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## altworld (Mar 11, 2010)

Most likely because Publishing houses take so long to adjust to markets and when they get there they stick there for a long time. They are trying to kill ebooks as a viable model and push everyone to paper novels. Biggest reason its harder to control the ebook market, its too open, to wild for them to dictate trends on.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

altworld said:


> They are trying to kill ebooks as a viable model and push everyone to paper novels. Biggest reason its harder to control the ebook market, its too open, to wild for them to dictate trends on.


You know, I keep hearing this, but I've seen no credible evidence to point to it.  

Mike


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

jmiked said:


> You know, I keep hearing this, but I've seen no credible evidence to point to it.
> 
> Mike


I hear you. There's no direct evidence. But if you ask yourself the question "If I wanted to discourage the adoption of ebooks, how would I go about it?" You'll find that nearly every answer is something being done by the publishers.


Window ebook releases
Fragment the market with differing DRM technologies
Raise prices in a down economy. Bonus points if you can raise prices past the perceived value point when compared with print
Release ebooks that are obviously not the version released to print
Change your business model to one that most retailers (including the biggest proponent of the technology) don't want. Beneficial side effect: smaller vendors struggle and may fail.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

jmiked said:


> You know, I keep hearing this, but I've seen no credible evidence to point to it.
> 
> Mike


The direct evidence I see is when the publisher comes out with a paperback that is priced lower than the ebook. That would indicate to me that they prefer to sell the paperback...

I hate it when the paperback is the same prices as the ebook. That's probably fair, but I still want just that little discount for not getting to have the hardcopy in my hands...someday they'll probably be able to charge more for the ebook just because of the instant download/convenience factor.

Maria


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Basilius said:


> I hear you. There's no direct evidence. But if you ask yourself the question "If I wanted to discourage the adoption of ebooks, how would I go about it?"


I think that's cherry-picking the arguments. If they wanted to discourage the adoption of ebook readers, why publish ebooks at all?

You might as well ascribe those things to not having a clue as to malice.

Mike


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

MariaESchneider said:


> The direct evidence I see is when the publisher comes out with a paperback that is priced lower than the ebook. That would indicate to me that they prefer to sell the paperback...


It just as well might point to the time-honored American tradition of charging early adopters a premium. Prices rarely seem to actually reflect any production costs.

Mike


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## mparish6 (Apr 14, 2010)

I may be a bit biased on this - being an indie author myself - but I agree the big publishers are definitely charging too much for ebooks. $9.99 should be the top price for a published novel, $1.99 for an indie. Anything over that is unreasonable and over time, as more people move from print to ebooks, I think the prices will sink to those levels. People simply are not willing to pay as much for online content as content in print, and the supply of ebooks can increase more rapidly in proportion to demand than that for paper novels.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

jmiked said:


> I think that's cherry-picking the arguments. If they wanted to discourage the adoption of ebook readers, why publish ebooks at all?
> 
> You might as well ascribe those things to not having a clue as to malice.
> 
> Mike


I pretty much agree with your down to earth analysis, Mike.

I think the publishers are struggling because they didn't foresee all the unintended consequences of releasing this monster called ebooks. I'll bet the general consensus was that it wouldn't have any effect on traditional publishing, be it pricing or popularity. Now that we all see it does they're not sure at all what their strategies should be. That's how it looks from where I sit.


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## DYB (Aug 8, 2009)

MariaESchneider said:


> The direct evidence I see is when the publisher comes out with a paperback that is priced lower than the ebook. That would indicate to me that they prefer to sell the paperback...
> 
> Maria


Seems pretty straight-forward to me!


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## Basilius (Feb 20, 2010)

jmiked said:


> I think that's cherry-picking the arguments. If they wanted to discourage the adoption of ebook readers, why publish ebooks at all?
> 
> You might as well ascribe those things to not having a clue as to malice.
> 
> Mike


I certainly agree. And said as much in a post either in this or another one of the similar threads on the matter.

But, when it comes right down to it, which is worse? Cluelessness or malice? If I was on the board of any of these companies, I'd be asking the executives some pretty tough questions. Because it's self-destructive either way.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Basilius said:


> If I was on the board of any of these companies, I'd be asking the executives some pretty tough questions. Because it's self-destructive either way.


Yep.

Mike


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

jmiked said:


> I think that's cherry-picking the arguments. If they wanted to discourage the adoption of ebook readers, why publish ebooks at all?
> 
> You might as well ascribe those things to not having a clue as to malice.
> 
> Mike


It's a catch 22 for traditional publishers. They would like things to continue as is, but on the other hand they would love to tap into what could become a very lucrative new market. It would be a win for them if they could get the book buying public to accept that an ebook and a paperback should be the same price. Unfortunately, those pesky upstarts Amazon and Apple are being most unreasonable, allowing almost anyone to publish ebooks and price them how they like. The bastards.


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

jmiked said:


> I think that's cherry-picking the arguments. If they wanted to discourage the adoption of ebook readers, why publish ebooks at all?
> Mike


"Gosh, folks -- we tried, but ebooks are just not profitable or viable at this time. We're not the bad guys here, and perhaps in the future people will be more ready for this format. In the meantime..."


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

MichelleR said:


> "Gosh, folks -- we tried, but ebooks are just not profitable or viable at this time. We're not the bad guys here, and perhaps in the future people will be more ready for this format. In the meantime..."


I just think that's too disingenuous for a non-governmental organization. 

Publishers have stockholders and Boards of Directors to worry about.

Mike


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## scottnicholson (Jan 31, 2010)

Ebook prices are ridiculous and will be shown so in short order, compared to the prices of other digital content. This really hit home with me when I read an iPad review where the reviewer essentially said, "Why should I care whether books are $10 or $15? While they are arguing over price, I can find a ton of fun things that are cheaper or free." All the movies you can watch for a month, or one ebook? There's a decision for you.

The only chance publishers have is to go cheap and lean, but the emerging interactive storytelling will be costly to produce, too. I think it's going to be fun to watch it all.

Scott


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## GMUHistorian (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm sure name list authors are probably prohibited by something in their contracts with publishers from commenting on this issue, but I wonder how long it is until a big list author completely pulls out of their publishing deal, hires a company on a contract basis to format his/her book, and simply sells it as an e-book. The numbers included in Joe Konrath's blog post on this issue blew me away. As he says, even a midlist author can "sort of" make a living publishing books on the Kindle. Once e-reader prices come down to mass market $50-99 levels (probably 3-5 years away I think), the money a guy like Joe Konrath can make will explode. 

I don't buy the argument that publishers even need to exist to promote authors. There are PR firms for that if necessary, and I'm not sure it's even necessary. There are approximately 400 million members of Facebook and 75 million members of Twitter (although only 17% of those accounts are active according to recent research). Even if those two both go the way of MySpace, something will replace them. Glenn Beck's show (regardless of what you think of his politics) single handedly got A Patriot's History of the United States back on the NYT's extended best seller list three years after its initial publication. Oprah's gotten books tons of sales through her program. 

How long will it be until Daniel Silva (currently one of my favorite authors), Stephen King, Nora Roberts, James Patterson and David Baldacci realize they don't need publishers, and financially would probably be better off without them?


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

GMUHistorian said:


> How long will it be until Daniel Silva (currently one of my favorite authors), Stephen King, Nora Roberts, James Patterson and David Baldacci realize they don't need publishers, and financially would probably be better off without them?


These writers are in the catbird seat no matter what. Nora Roberts had made clear in the past that she likes traditional publishing model, although this can always change. However, these authors are the ones who are always going to get the red carpet service and will prosper wherever they choose to go. They might make less staying put, but they won't go hungry, and can chalk up the smaller profits to the cost they're willing to pay for the big ad push, added prestige, and the respect these pubs still carry in middle America, etc.

Now, a mid-list author is the one with the real incentive, because the added money to be made can be the difference between writing being a full-time viable career, not to mention autonomy. An unpublished author also has a number of reasons, like actually being paid and getting his or her work seen.

I think big names very well might break away, and it'll be interesting to see who'll do it, but I'm not sure anyone is in a hurry. Maybe Patterson since he has at least a couple people ghostwriting for him and this would be an opportunity to produce even faster.

Or I could be talking out my rear.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

MichelleR said:


> . Maybe Patterson since he has at least a couple people ghostwriting for him and this would be an opportunity to produce even faster.


Does he really? That just seems wrong


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## MichelleR (Feb 21, 2009)

Chad Winters (#102) said:


> Does he really? That just seems wrong


Well, he calls them co-writers and credits them now, but...

From NYT Magazine:

_TO MAINTAIN HIS frenetic pace of production, Patterson now uses co-authors for nearly all of his books. He is part executive producer, part head writer, setting out the vision for each book or series and then ensuring that his writers stay the course. This kind of collaboration is second nature to Patterson from his advertising days, and it's certainly common in other creative industries, including television. But writing a novel is not the same thing as coming up with jokes for David Letterman or plotting an episode of "24." Books, at least in their traditional conception, are the product of one person's imagination and sensibility, rendered in a singular, unreproducible style and voice. Some novelists have tried using co-authors, usually with limited success. Certainly none have taken collaboration to the level Patterson has, with his five regular co-authors, each one specializing in a different Patterson series or genre. "Duke Ellington said, 'I need an orchestra, otherwise I wouldn't know how my music sounds,' " Pietsch told me when I asked him about Patterson's use of collaborators. "Jim created a process and a team that can help him hear how his music sounds."

The way it usually works, Patterson will write a detailed outline - sometimes as long as 50 pages, triple-spaced - and one of his co-authors will draft the chapters for him to read, revise and, when necessary, rewrite. When he's first starting to work with a new collaborator, a book will typically require numerous drafts. Over time, the process invariably becomes more efficient. Patterson pays his co-authors out of his own pocket. On the adult side, his collaborators work directly and exclusively with Patterson. On the Y.A. side, they sometimes work with Patterson's young-adult editor, who decides when pages are ready to be passed along to Patterson.

Some Patterson fans have complained in online forums that his co-written books feel too "cookie cutter" and lack the "roller coaster" feel of his previous work, but his sales certainly haven't suffered. In at least one instance, Patterson took on a co-author in an effort to boost sales: last year, after noticing he wasn't selling in Scandinavia, he invited Sweden's best-selling crime writer, Liza Marklund, to collaborate with him on an international thriller. Their novel, "The Postcard Killers," is just being published in Sweden and will be out in the U.S. this summer.

For the most part, though, Patterson draws his co-authors from the vast sea of struggling writers. _


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

If their name is not on the book as a co-author I think he is being deceptive. If I buy a book with your name on it I expect its because you wrote it yourself. If I see a book with a well-known name and a less well-known name then I know the co-author did most of the work and I decide on the book from a well-informed position.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah, some authors are pretty up-front about co-writers. Off-hand, I can think of Clive Cussler, Anne McCaffrey, Arthur C. Clarke, and Leslie Charteris. I'm sure we could come up with other examples.

Others were less forthcoming, such as Ellery Queen (cousins Frederic Dannay and Manfred B. Lee). I think it was only after their deaths that it became known that they didn't write the last four or five novels featuring the Ellery Queen character. I believe it was generally known that they didn’t write the non-series potboilers that were published with their name on them, however. I certainly assumed that when I saw them.


Mike


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## vickir (Jan 14, 2009)

Totally agree. I'll wait for the price to come way down. If it's something I really want to read, go to library. If I forget about it by the time the price is lowered, their loss, not mine.


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