# Bookbub Disaster



## spanchops (Dec 4, 2017)

I had hoped that a Bookbub deal would be a great promo for my book. The new featured deal cost be £1650, which is a lot of money. The promo ran. Normally I have an average of 6 sales a day, sales in the last seven days have varied from 2 to 9, and on the Bookbub promo day I sold 12 copies. 

To say I am a bit gutted is an understatement. recovering from this is going to take some doing. 

Anyone else had any similar experiences?


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## azebra (Jul 30, 2011)

I applied for BookBub once, got turned down, never tried again. I've heard good things of course. This time of year is funny though. People are buying for gifts and not themselves. If your book doesn't fit the 'gift' purchase rationale it might not have been a good time to have it on bookbub. Maybe you could go back to BookBub and ask for another run or some money back.


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## AlecHutson (Sep 26, 2016)

Sorry, are you referring to the regular Bookbub email subscribers get in their inboxes every day for the genres they've signed up for, or the new 'Featured New Release' email Bookbub has started sending out? I've heard from several authors who tried the latter that it wasn't worth the money spent.


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## jb1111 (Apr 6, 2018)

Am I correct in interpreting it as costing you $1650.00?

Or was that a typo.


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## CloudStrife (Oct 21, 2015)

Something seems waaaay off here. 

I pay much less for my Bookbub promos - and I have only ever been accepted for an international promotion (non-US)

Given your cost, I assume your promo included the US, right?

Given your results, I wonder if the email was sent out at all, recommending your book.

This seems obvious, but are you sure that:

- you paid Bookbub properly for the promotion
- you have the correct date for the intended promotion
- that Bookbub indeed sent out the promotion, recommending your book
- that you discounted your book properly on all relevant sites

Given my experiences with Bookbub, my basic assumption here is that something went WRONG. Your Bookbub was not executed properly in some fashion.


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## mitch176 (Jul 11, 2018)

I'm no expert on BookBub at all, but I agree with the above, something definitely seems wrong if you spent that much. You should definitely email them and find out if all is well!


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

What day did it run?


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

What was the sale price of your book? Sounds like it wasn't the usual free or 99c.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

The only $1,650 price I can see on the Bookbub page is a Featured New Release for Historical Fiction. Was that what you paid for? It does seem a low amount of sales.


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## Laran Mithras (Nov 22, 2016)

I misunderstood the OP.

NM.


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## CloudStrife (Oct 21, 2015)

Lydniz said:


> The only $1,650 price I can see on the Bookbub page is a Featured New Release for Historical Fiction. Was that what you paid for? It does seem a low amount of sales.


If Detective Lydniz is right, which it seems she is, then this may be an epic fail afterall - perhaps the Bookbub was run correctly, and these were the dismal results. As others have said, the Featured New Release is generally not considered "worth it". I never tried it, so I have no experience to compare with.

In either case, if I had a failed promotion on this level, I would at least consider contacting Bookbub about it. I'm not sure what I would say, but I don't think 12 sales is what ANYONE has in mind when they dish out $1,650....

At the same time, Bookbub is such a powerhouse that if you complain about anything, you run the risk that they will blacklist you and not promote you in the future.

The general lesson for the boards - do your homework before you dish out this kind of cash... even for reputable promotional agencies, make sure the specific TYPE of promotion is generally considered to be worth it.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

CloudStrife said:


> In either case, if I had a failed promotion on this level, I would at least consider contacting Bookbub about it. I'm not sure what I would say, but I don't think 12 sales is what ANYONE has in mind when they dish out $1,650....


I don't think Bookbub are in the business of blacklisting people, especially for this kind of thing. They always send out a survey after a deal, asking how it went. It's absolutely in their interests to find out what they're doing right or wrong, simply because they ARE such a powerhouse and want to maintain that position. I've always found them very approachable and helpful when I've had questions, and if this feature really has gone so badly then I'm sure they will want to hear about it so they can investigate what, if anything, they got wrong.


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## spanchops (Dec 4, 2017)

Hi all

It was $1650, that was unfortunately not a typo for a featured new release deal. I emailed them yesterday and then again this morning with the results, but as yet I have not had a reply. It's going to be a pretty bitter pill to swallow this one, but these things happen. It's a bit of s a shame as I know if I had thrown that much money at AMS it would have had much better results. It's all a learning curve.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I'm sorry it didn't do well for you. I would suggest asking Bookbub for a refund.


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## PhoenixFromTheAshes (Oct 1, 2018)

Would you mind sharing the genre and/or the price you ran it at?


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2018)

spanchops said:


> It was $1650, that was unfortunately not a typo for a featured new release deal.


What was the price of the book? Bookbub subscribers expect a bargain, given the few sales that makes me suspect it was full price (or over $2.99) and therefore not attractive to subscribers. And that's assuming cover/blurb are up to par.


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## Steve Voelker (Feb 27, 2014)

CloudStrife said:


> At the same time, Bookbub is such a powerhouse that if you complain about anything, you run the risk that they will blacklist you and not promote you in the future.


Very much NOT the case with BB. The people that work there are great, super helpful, and they are always interested in the effectiveness of their promotions. I've turned down deals that didn't work for me, and been very honest with them when asked for feedback, and I have no problem getting featured deals.

For the OP:
I cannot believe this is anything but a mistake. 
There is just no way a book featured in one of their biggest categories does that poorly. I've never had a bookbub deal return fewer than a few thousand sales.


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## PhoenixFromTheAshes (Oct 1, 2018)

Steve Voelker said:


> I cannot believe this is anything but a mistake.
> There is just no way a book featured in one of their biggest categories does that poorly. I've never had a bookbub deal return fewer than a few thousand sales.


This was a Featured New Release. Not a regular featured deal. I tracked rank for a handful back in August, and heard from a few folk regarding their ads since. No one's been ecstatic. Plus, price point seems to be a big driver. The indie authors I've seen sales numbers for that were at least meh were pricing their books at 99 cents.

Back in August, I tracked an indie Fantasy priced at $4.99 that only hit #22K _as a new release_ during the time of their ad (one would think there would be other promo as well surrounding a new release, no?). That's about 18 sales.

https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,265941.msg3702871.html#msg3702871


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

PhoenixFromTheAshes said:


> Back in August, I tracked an indie Fantasy priced at $4.99 that only hit #22K _as a new release_ during the time of their ad (one would think there would be other promo as well surrounding a new release, no?). That's about 18 sales.


Wow. That's a lot of money to charge for that kind of performance. I think Bookbub may have dropped the ball on this one.


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## PhoenixFromTheAshes (Oct 1, 2018)

Lydniz said:


> Wow. That's a lot of money to charge for that kind of performance. I think Bookbub may have dropped the ball on this one.


Honestly, I think their audience for this one is mainly trad pubs that are doing a lot of promo around a new release.

From yesterday's Featured New Release mail, here are a few I spot-checked ranks for today around 4pm CT that all look to be indie titles. All with the expectation that more is going on for a new release than simply a BB ad. (I'm subbed to pretty much all cats, and there were 36 titles in my mail. These are not all the indie titles, just some randomly chosen.)

2.99 - thriller - #2700
2.99 - action/adventure - #5600
2.51 - erotic romance - #900
3.99 - pnr - #12,600
2.99 - romantic suspense - #15,000
0.99 - sf - #990
2.99 - epic fantasy - #2100
3.99 - horror - #11,000
0.99 - supernatural suspense - #8000

I'm guessing the OP's book was $6.99 (and a later book in a series). The trad titles pretty much are all priced that much and more, but they're generally getting an even bigger push out the door, so I didn't include any of them in my quick spot-check.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Hmm. From the sound of it this is going to work best for really big names with a huge following.


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## spanchops (Dec 4, 2017)

I'm waiting for an email back from them. So far I have found them a great company to deal with and I am hopeful that it will be all sorted out. This was a new release and I ran it at full price, there was no advice really to discount it, and I was told many people run the new releases between 2.99 and 14.99, so this was a midway deal at 6.99. I am actually hoping there has been a glitch, there has been no real increase in sales today and they are at about their normal level of 5 a day. I average 6, highs being 12 and lows being 3. So the deal really didn't show anything more than a usual day.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

I hope they give you a refund. 

I've only seen BB success stories with the regular featured deal when that book is free to get buys of further books in a series. It sounds like full priced books still aren't doing well even with BB behind them.


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## CloudStrife (Oct 21, 2015)

Yeah, first verify if the deal was run properly and if these were your legitimate results from Bookbub.

If that is the case, it seems reasonable to request a refund, sending screenshots of your dismal sales, and apologize, stating that you learned your lesson that this type of deal is not worth it for you. 

Also, as others have said, I would highly recommend filling out the survey they send you, to show that you are fully complying with helping them to learn from this experience too.


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## AuthorX (Nov 11, 2014)

PhoenixFromTheAshes said:


> Honestly, I think their audience for this one is mainly trad pubs that are doing a lot of promo around a new release.
> 
> From yesterday's Featured New Release mail, here are a few I spot-checked ranks for today around 4pm CT that all look to be indie titles. All with the expectation that more is going on for a new release than simply a BB ad. (I'm subbed to pretty much all cats, and there were 36 titles in my mail. These are not all the indie titles, just some randomly chosen.)
> 
> ...


Wait.... so only two of these expensive Bookbub promos managed to break the top 1000... Holy cow.

If those are the results, Bookbub is no longer worth it at all.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

AuthorX said:


> Wait.... so only two of these expensive Bookbub promos managed to break the top 1000... Holy cow.
> 
> If those are the results, Bookbub is no longer worth it at all.


These are Bookbub featured new releases, though, not Bookbub featured deals. A featured new release might well be full price, whereas the featured deals are discounted and are still, as far as I'm aware, very much worth having.


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## Terry Chakra (Nov 3, 2018)

Bookbub featured deals are definitely worth having - not sure about new releases, but if you've got yourself a good book with a good cover and blurb (and a few good reviews) you'll almost definitely have a direct positive return (without even counting customer lifetime value). 

Featured new releases are tricky because 1. they aren't as thoroughly vetted and 2. people are much less likely to take a chance on something new than on something others already praised.

Additionally, People love a good deal, which is why the featured deal works so well (specifically at a <$1 price point).


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I had a featured new release on Tuesday in horror. It was significantly cheaper. However, I'm still $180 in the hole on it. I'd say it was worth $50. They are totally overpricing.


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## SaltObelisk (May 24, 2017)

I would like to chime in and say I also had a Featured New Release once, in the YA category, and pretty much broke even on it. Sorry to hear your results were even worse!

The Featured Deal still works (US and International), but the Featured New Release isn't really worth it. It barely outperformed Bargainbooksy, to be honest. Bookbub needs to lower their prices on it.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

I hadn't heard of Featured New Deals until this thread. I'm sorry people are seeing bad to catastrophic results, but thanks for reporting them here so others don't suffer the same fate.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2018)

People don't subscribe to Bookbub to buy books at full price. I don't get the "featured new deals" newsletter from BB. Is that something new? It definitely sounds like it's not worth it, but really... whose buying self-published Ebooks at 6.99? That's not a deal at all. I'm sorry you lost your money.


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## spanchops (Dec 4, 2017)

It's been a fairly awful experience and there is nothing I can do about it, and no offer has been made either. I know you can never 100% know what you will get back from adverting but my actual income from this was $57 to set against a spend of $1650. Ouch. So learn from my experience and don't get yourself in the same situation. It was a slap in the face I could have done without just before Christmas.


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## blubarry (Feb 27, 2015)

The featured new releases are overpriced for what they provide. You're promised exposure to their entire list of genre readers but the challenge is that these are often for a full priced release - at least mine have been. The ROI has been difficult to determine since mine have been in KU, but at BEST it was a break-even. I'm paying a similar rate as I do for a featured deal, and with a featured deal, I basically am guaranteed to come out ahead, even on free, because of buy through of a discounted book. 

Ultimately, I think the issue is Bookbub readers are discount shoppers, but have seen that even discounted (99c) new releases don't get a huge boost.


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## ET (Oct 23, 2014)

blubarry said:


> The featured new releases are overpriced for what they provide. You're promised exposure to their entire list of genre readers but the challenge is that these are often for a full priced release - at least mine have been. The ROI has been difficult to determine since mine have been in KU, but at BEST it was a break-even. I'm paying a similar rate as I do for a featured deal, and with a featured deal, I basically am guaranteed to come out ahead, even on free, because of buy through of a discounted book.
> 
> Ultimately, I think the issue is Bookbub readers are discount shoppers, but have seen that even discounted (99c) new releases don't get a huge boost.


I heard Michael Cooper (the Facebook ads guy) interviewed on the Science Fiction and Fantasy Marketing Podcast this past week.

He said that he now avoids BB, because those are readers who are *only* looking for giveaways and near giveaways. Make of that what you will.

Sorry to hear how things worked out for the OP. That's a lot of money by any standard.


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## jb1111 (Apr 6, 2018)

To the OP: Sorry to hear of your monetary loss.

I kept hearing all this razz about Bookbub, and just never saw the appeal of it. Now I have yet one more reason to feel that way.

Keep writing, and building your audience. You'll eventually gain the money back. Every business usually takes a loss somewhere during its lifetime.


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## Marseille France or Bust (Sep 25, 2012)

I've has a BB promo with under 100 sales (historical fiction 2017) - my second promo. Not even close to making my money back with zero tail. But, my first promo in 2016 did well.



Steve Voelker said:


> Very much NOT the case with BB. The people that work there are great, super helpful, and they are always interested in the effectiveness of their promotions. I've turned down deals that didn't work for me, and been very honest with them when asked for feedback, and I have no problem getting featured deals.
> 
> For the OP:
> I cannot believe this is anything but a mistake.
> There is just no way a book featured in one of their biggest categories does that poorly. I've never had a bookbub deal return fewer than a few thousand sales.


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## NanSweet (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm so sorry to hear this! I hope they give you a refund or rerun the ad.  Something must have happened to throw it off.


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

blubarry said:


> Ultimately, I think the issue is Bookbub readers are discount shoppers, but have seen that even discounted (99c) new releases don't get a huge boost.


I agree. I think BookBub readers are conditioned to expect bargains, and that's what they want.


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## Jack Krenneck (Feb 9, 2014)

ET said:


> I heard Michael Cooper (the Facebook ads guy) interviewed on the Science Fiction and Fantasy Marketing Podcast this past week.
> 
> He said that he now avoids BB, because those are readers who are *only* looking for giveaways and near giveaways. Make of that what you will.
> 
> Sorry to hear how things worked out for the OP. That's a lot of money by any standard.


Bookbub release stats on their blog about how many people go on to buy a full price book after a free/99c deal. The figures were surprisingly high.

On the other hand, the figures were supplied by Bookbub. Make of that what you will.


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## A. N. Other Author (Oct 11, 2014)

Gutted to hear about this. Never good when someone loses $100 on a promo, let alone that sort of cost.

For others looking into BookBub for the first time, I've had three featured deals with them (not new releases). In my experience, BookBub is one of the few newsletters with a hefty following whose readers are willing to buy at full price in significant numbers - just not the FIRST book they see. They'll take a chance on an author they haven't heard of for 0.99 or - better still - free first in a series. If they like what they read, they WILL spend money on your other books (providing you advertise them in the back of that first one). But anything over 0.99, I haven't heard of anyone except big trad authors and high profile indies doing well. 

So it's true to say most newsletter subscribers are looking for bargains, but BookBub subscribers in particular are looking for new authors to discover too. They just don't want to pay much to discover them. Once they do, they're yours!

My BookBub tail on a free first in series is usually 3-4 months of profit on a featured deal, so I definitely think 0.99 is the limit - even for a new release. 

Perhaps this side of the service is still finding its feet. Perhaps the subscribers need to be enticed the way they are with a featured deal. 

I'd love to hear from someone who's launched a whole series all at once, or in quick succession, then utilised the BB new release option at free or 0.99 - whether there was any sell-through on that series would help determine if it can be used in a similar way to the featured deals.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

jb1111 said:


> To the OP: Sorry to hear of your monetary loss.
> 
> I kept hearing all this razz about Bookbub, and just never saw the appeal of it. Now I have yet one more reason to feel that way.
> 
> Keep writing, and building your audience. You'll eventually gain the money back. Every business usually takes a loss somewhere during its lifetime.


Which is fine, when you are promoting the first book in the series. I don't care how many people take my first book free if they buy the rest.  Bookbub has been very good for my series. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get in there for quite some time. Hopefully, a lot of people will read his words and decide it isn't worth it, making it easier to get in for people who do want to move a series!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

I was considering doing one for a new release coming in February, but now I think maybe not. I think BB's Featured New Release might be a good fit for the first book in a new series, if priced low. That would likely result in a thousand or more sales. It's tough to sell book four, or book ten to a new reader at full price.

And that got me thinking. The first two books in my original series (this coming book is #14) are undergoing a rewrite, with the first already in editing, and the second half finished. A BB Featured New Release deal could work out pretty good there, when they're relaunched.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I was considering doing one for a new release coming in February, but now I think maybe not. I think BB's Featured New Release might be a good fit for the first book in a new series, if priced low. That would likely result in a thousand or more sales. It's tough to sell book four, or book ten to a new reader at full price.
> 
> And that got me thinking. The first two books in my original series (this coming book is #14) are undergoing a rewrite, with the first already in editing, and the second half finished. A BB Featured New Release deal could work out pretty good there, when they're relaunched.


I second Wayne. A tool is only as good as its users, customers and strategy. Bookbub is a tool, and its customers want bargains. It has great reach to get something in front of buyers, but only the buyers can decide to buy.

So, a new release at (say) 99c or even 5-day free might work, if you did a fast release of a new series. Publish books 1 and 2 a couple days apart, with book 3 in 28-day pre-order. Schedule the BB New Release notice for Book 1 ASAP. Sell (maybe) 1000 copies at 99c or maybe 10K at free. Rule of thumb: every price point loses an order of magnitude-ish. 2.99 or 3.99 will sell 100-ish maybe, 4.99 and above will sell 10-ish. Human nature.

So, if you get 1K-10K copies in people's hands, the sell-through and visibility should provide the profit.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

AuthorX said:


> Wait.... so only two of these expensive Bookbub promos managed to break the top 1000... Holy cow.
> 
> If those are the results, Bookbub is no longer worth it at all.


OP is talking about a new release deal, not a Featured Deal. Featured Deals are still worth it, especially if you've got wide and free, or 99-cents and KU. But I've heard from big name authors that the paid new release emails are ABSOLUTELY not worth it.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

C. Gockel said:


> OP is talking about a new release deal, not a Featured Deal. Featured Deals are still worth it, especially if you've got wide and free, or 99-cents and KU. But I've heard from big name authors that the paid new release emails are ABSOLUTELY not worth it.


See my post immediately above.

I think people were so blinded by BB's usefulness in a certain narrow way that they thought it would work anywhere, anytime, at any price point. Out of blind faith and hope they ignored the fact that BB subscribers are looking for a bargain. That audience is not going to pay 6.99 for a new release--or if they would, they already know about the new release from some other source because they're already a big fan.

It would be like selling high-end products in Wal-Mart. They won't sell there. That's why Wal-Mart doesn't generally stock Macs, or audiophile stereos, or true designer clothes or genuinely expensive jewelry. It's the wrong market, the wrong audience--and the right audience won't be shopping there anyway.


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## TonyU (Dec 14, 2014)

David VanDyke said:


> It would be like selling high-end products in Wal-Mart. They won't sell there. That's why Wal-Mart doesn't generally stock Macs, or audiophile stereos, or true designer clothes or genuinely expensive jewelry. It's the wrong market, the wrong audience--and the right audience won't be shopping there anyway.


I know one successful indie author who did a BB New Release deal for a 99 cent release. The ad cost over $500 and she sold just under 200 copies at 99 cents. I don't see any way, at any price a BB NR deal is worthwhile unless you're looking to burn money.


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## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

TonyU said:


> I know one successful indie author who did a BB New Release deal for a 99 cent release. The ad cost over $500 and she sold just under 200 copies at 99 cents. I don't see any way, at any price a BB NR deal is worthwhile unless you're looking to burn money.


I think David VanDyke just highlighted a way it could be successful: release Book 1 & 2 a few days apart with Book 3 on preorder. If it's a long book in Kindle Unlimited, the heightened visibility might actually let you break even on Book 1.

That said, the power for BookBub for me has been remaining on their site for extended periods of time with a free book. They promote fewer and fewer free books now, but if you can get it, remaining on their site at free is the cheapest advertising you can get.


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## TonyU (Dec 14, 2014)

Ah, somehow I missed that post.


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## mcole67 (Jul 1, 2018)

So isn't the new release feature $420 and Not $1650? Lindsay Buroker said she did the same deal on her podcast and it had little effect on sales.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

mcole67 said:


> So isn't the new release feature $420 and Not $1650? Lindsay Buroker said she did the same deal on her podcast and it had little effect on sales.


The price depends on genre.


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## raminar_dixon (Aug 26, 2013)

So did OP ever get a refund, an explanation, a slap in the face, or what? It's been a month.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

David VanDyke said:


> I second Wayne. A tool is only as good as its users, customers and strategy. Bookbub is a tool, and its customers want bargains. It has great reach to get something in front of buyers, but only the buyers can decide to buy.
> 
> So, a new release at (say) 99c or even 5-day free might work, if you did a fast release of a new series. Publish books 1 and 2 a couple days apart, with book 3 in 28-day pre-order. Schedule the BB New Release notice for Book 1 ASAP. Sell (maybe) 1000 copies at 99c or maybe 10K at free. Rule of thumb: every price point loses an order of magnitude-ish. 2.99 or 3.99 will sell 100-ish maybe, 4.99 and above will sell 10-ish. Human nature.
> 
> So, if you get 1K-10K copies in people's hands, the sell-through and visibility should provide the profit.


Right, it's not the tool, it's how it's used. There's nothing wrong with BookBub. I had a featured deal last week and had over 22K downloads. The ad cost $515 and it paid for itself within about 80 hours. Today, I have a BookBub Preorder Alert going, which went out only to my followers, at 9AM Eastern. It cost $104 and new preorders paid for the ad by 10:30. The preorder is priced at its regular $6.99, too. But unless they follow me on FaceBook or subscribe to my newsletter, that's the price they've always paid.

A Featured New Release deal will probably only work well with the first in a new series, by a somewhat established author with a following, discounted on the day of the alert, and ranked fairly well.


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