# Shelter Dog Help



## Not Here (May 23, 2011)

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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Wow--I'm not sure where you're looking for your dog. Local shelters have wonderful dogs available for adoption fee. With young children and especially those that might be a challenge for some dogs--I'd go with an adult dog that's a known quantity. Yes, the retriever breeds (labs, goldens) have "soft mouths" and tend to be large enough and mellow to get along pretty well, but ALL dogs require training. Again, an adult dog that's already house trained and has some basic obedience will be a very good thing.

Actually pit bulls used to be called "nanny dogs" because they were so good with kids and tolerate a lot! But I'd strongly recommend if you go that route to "vet" the source because these days not all have the best temperament, and are NOT a good mix if you have other pets around. Yep, Chihuahuas wouldn't be my first choice for young or rambunctious kids, as they can be fragile as well as (some of them!) bity. 

Lots and lots of free dog advice at my www.puppies.about.com site (much applies to adult dogs, too). Hope something here helps. Good luck!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Have you looked at Petfinder.com? That's where we found our last two dogs. Petfinder does have a combination of dogs via rescue groups as well as dogs currently living in shelters. I have had good experiences through Petfinder.

I wrote an article for Amy's site about our adoption experience and some of the differences between rescue vs. shelter. You can read it here:

http://puppies.about.com/od/FindAPuppy/a/Puppy-Rescue.htm

Are you saying the apartment charges $45/mo as some sort of a fee for having a dog, plus a $350 security deposit?

Re: responding to an email--remember that a lot of these organizations are volunteer-based and doing their work out of love of dogs. I would email about certain dogs and never get an answer, too. I just assumed that meant the dog had been adopted and was no longer available but they didn't have time to send out messages saying so.

I just searched on "small, young, dog, chicago IL" in Petfinder and came up with 484 results. That should be something to help you get started. Good luck!

L


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Have you priced vet care? Given the cost of office visits, vaccines and especially spaying/neutering or teeth cleaning (things that require anesthesia), those adoption costs, even the higher ones, are actually quite a bargain given that you'll be adopting a dog who is fully up-to-date on all the medical stuff. The difference in adoption pricing between groups is often due to what kind of arrangement (or not) the rescue group has with a veterinarian. The group I volunteer with has a vet who _very, very_ generously donates her time to us, so we're able to keep vet costs (and thus adoption fees) quite low. Other groups aren't that lucky and are paying close to full price for the vet care their animals receive, and vet care in some parts of the country is significantly higher than it is here. In order to continue rescuing animals they have to pass those costs on to adopters. If you were to buy a puppy from a breeder, you'd quickly find that vet costs over the first six months or so cost as much, and likely quite a bit more, than the highest adoption price.

Just to give you an example of vet costs, last November we purchased a Shih Tzu puppy from a breeder. She had already given the pup his first round of vaccines. Since then I've paid my vet $343.88 for the rest of the necessary vaccines, neutering and microchipping (I spent quite a bit more for heartworm and flea preventative, but didn't include those in the total because they're not something everybody gives their dog). The vet care in this area is quite reasonable compared to other parts of the country, plus I've been with the same vet for over 30 years and he gives me a generous "frequent customer" discount. That same care in other parts of the country, and w/o a discount, would easily run between $500 and $1,000.

In your shoes I'd recommend looking for a rescue group that would allow you to do a trial adoption. In this area it's pretty common to allow two-week trials. Usually all that's at risk is a relatively small non-refundable application processing fee ($25 to $50).

I agree with Amy regarding the adult dog. Puppies are cute, but that cuteness wears off really, really fast when the pupper starts nipping and biting and chasing the kids, chewing the kitchen table legs and peeing on the carpet. And it's a rare puppy who won't do all those things. Adult dogs, even ones who are just a year or so old, are much calmer and it's much easier to gauge their personality, temperment and activity level. And it's a total fallacy that older dogs aren't as trainable as puppies. No dog is too old to train! My 12-yo learns new tricks all the time.

ETA re toys and gadgets -- For toys I think you really need to wait and see. Different dogs like different types of toys, and you'll need to match up the size of some toys with the size of the dog. But in general balls and plush toys ("stuffies") are favorites. Kongs and Nylabones are great for chewers. As far as "gadgets" -- you'll need a crate (preferred) or a baby gate. Something to contain the dog in a small area when necessary, and to give the dog a quiet, safe place of his own.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

I wish you luck finding your new dog. Often, it is the dog who finds us that makes the best dog. You just have to be patient.

Our local Humane Society does its best to match dogs with owners. Yes, there is a fee, but it costs money to take in all those dogs and care for them. I think most dogs cost $175 to adopt. AND, they are returnable at any time in case the adoption doesn't work out. I think if the dog is returned within 30 days, the adoption fee is refunded. 

I know your heart is set on a puppy, but I agree with others that an older dog might fit best with your family. Puppies are easily startled by quick movements, loud noises, etc. 

We are looking forward to seeing your new family member when it arrives!


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

I think that fee is much higher than the norm.  I paid $75 at the Denver Humane Society to adopt my first Border Collie mix and that covered the cost of spaying.    Then I paid the cost of an airline ticket to have my second one shipped to Denver from Oklahoma.    I think you need to contact some other shelters near where you live.  There are so many dogs that need to be rescued.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

I saw something in another of your posts that led me to think you're in the western suburbs? The West Suburban Humane Society has a $150 adoption fee for dogs one year and older which includes spay or neuter surgery, microchip, collar with ID tag, flea preventative, heartworm check and preventative, DALP-PV vaccine, de-worming, Bordatella vaccine and a temporary leash. Have you checked there?


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

I had a beagle once. He would have made a poor apartment dog. A hound wants to go where the scent and the sight leads them. A suggestion might be to look on the AKC website. In the listing of breeds there is often a comment of whether the breed is content in small surroundings such as an apartment. 

Do you have easy outside access from you new apartment? That will help with any age, but is pretty important if you are housebreaking a puppy. Good luck in your search!


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

I had a beagle who would've made a fabulous apartment dog.  We got her as a foster dog when she was two years old (the "victim" of a divorce) and within a few days we decided there was no way she was leaving our home.  She was friendly and happy and calm and quiet.  Now quiet isn't a term that's always associated with beagles.  They're known for being rather barky and their bay is incredibly loud.  But ours didn't bark or bay much at all.  She was so in love with the world I think she just didn't see the necessity.  She much preferred to wag her tail and flop over for belly rubs.

Regarding the AKC or any other websites with breed descriptions -- Keep in mind they're all generalizations.  For any given dog some of it will be spot-on and some of it will be way off the mark.  But in general I think most people would consider most beagles to be a training challenge for the average pet owner due to their independence.  I enjoyed training our beagle, but I like independent dogs who make me think and challenge my training skills (such as they are).  Keep in mind that beagles have been bred for eons to work far out in front of a hunter.  Far enough out that they can't rely on the hunter for commands and so have to make their own decisions.  And that independence is what gets them stuck with the label "hard to train" in today's society as pets.

While in general I think beagles and many of the hounds make absolutely wonderful family pets, one thing to keep in mind in addition to the independence and potential barking issues is that some of them have a distinct and rather strong "houndy" odor.  Our beagle didn't, but my mom's beagle does.  And it's pretty much something you have to learn to live with.  A good quality food can sometimes help, as can regular bathing.  But those things won't always completely alleviate it.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

Shelters and rescues are typically interested in placing a dog in a home that will work out. Be very honest about your home, family, schedule, etc., and you will likely get lots of help from the shelter/rescue in analyzing dog personalities. Every breed has a lot of variables, as has been pointed out. There is probably a good reason that there are so many beagles in the shelters, along with very large dogs, chihuahuas, pit bulls, etc.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Ditto Jane -- Shelters and rescues want every adoption to be successful, so tell them all about your family and let them help guide you.  You already know you want a dog who is great with kids (IMO that's by far your most important criteria), fits your size requirements, will be content to live in an apartment and gets along with other dogs.  Sometimes those things are hard to judge in young puppies.  It's like trying to guess what kind of adult a baby will be when he's only six months old.  But I think in very general terms what most pet homes need is the puppy who is kind of middle-of-the-road.  Not the one who stays in the corner and sleeps, cowers or ignores people, but not the most rambunctious one of the bunch, either.  IME the pup who shows interest in people and what's going on around him, but not to the point that he's crazily jumping all over people or other puppies is likely to grow into the kind of dog who, with just a little training, can learn to handle most anything.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Some sites, books, etc. say a Border Terrier isn't a good apartment dog. Others say they are. I think Burke is fine in my 2nd floor one bedroom condo (apartment). Depends much on the individual dog, not just the breed.

Beagles could never be allowed to run free / off leash. They just follow their nose and all the good smells. (Same with Border Terrier.) Our Beagle wasn't highly trained. He learned some basic commands and a few tricks. But I believe they have the sweetest disposition. They do shed.

If you don't want to cry, don't read the following:



Spoiler



Beagles are popular for use in experiments because of their size and sweet disposition. Be good and look what it gets you.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

I have a book that is titled 'The Right Dog For You' by Daniel F. Tortora that really helped me narrow down the choices for a dog that would be right for my home, my kidlet, our lifestyle etc; and I recommend it. While it is mostly geared for purebreds and not mixed breed shelter dogs, it still has lots of good information that can steer you in the right direction. If you can't find a copy I will mail you mine (free of charge) since I don't need it anymore, if you PM me an address. 
My personal opinion based on what you describe is to steer away from Beagles or terriers because they tend to be 'busy busy busy' and if not given the appropriate amount of stimulation, could be prone to destructive or aggressive behavior.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the idea of a breeder. I suspect any dog from a breeder is going to cost way more than $200-$300.

If I may candidly say, is your honesty in presenting yourself (in an email or whatever) perhaps working against you? If I received an email that said, "I have two young autistic children and live in an apartment--we're looking for a dog," my first thought might be, "Maybe she should be looking for a cat, instead." I think you have a unique situation and although you are prepared for all that a dog entails, others don't know that. Presenting yourself with a small space and young kids might be throwing red flags to the recipients of your messages.

Keep in mind that the philosophy of shelters and rescue organizations is to find the *best* home for the dog, not just any home. As I discovered through my 2x rescue adoption process, the folks at the other end do their homework, just like you.

Good luck in your continued search,

L


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

When I was looking for a dog, I definitely stayed away from puppies. I wanted one about two to three years old. Then I went to an adoption event at Pet Smart and fell in love with Angelo. When they told me he was nine, it was too late to back out. He'd already gotten into my heart.

Our shelter only charges $50 for dogs over five years old and only charged me $25 since Angelo was way over that. He's a Jack Russell Terrier mix and he's plenty lively outside. When he's inside, he's content to lie under somebody's chair or follow whoever goes into the kitchen. When one of us plays with him inside, he gets all lively again. 

After nearly three months in the shelter, Angelo needed some reminding about his training, but it only took a couple of days on the housebreaking. Then it was a matter of learning his little foibles and dealing with them. 

Older dogs can fit in with a family really well and deserve a chance. That adoption event was Angelo's last chance and we were lucky to find each other.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Would you be looking for a purebred from a breeder?  Burke was a few $$$$$$$$$$.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

Watch for adoption fairs. Shelters take their best behaved dogs and have special incentives for adoption. Around here they are held at PetCo or the fairgrounds. Warning: Be prepared to fall in love!

Don't discount breeders all together. Both my dogs came from reputable breeders.....often they have older dogs or dogs that don't fit into their breeding programs anymore. The breeder is delighted when these dogs find a good home. 

Instead of e-mailing the shelters, is it possible to just stop in at a shelter and look at what they have to offer? Usually shelters have an outside fenced area you can take a dog and get to know it. Your kids and the dog would be safe in the small fenced area, and you would get an idea how your kids will interact.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Most breeds have a rescue organization. Check on-line for those. Beagles in the area is Midwest BREW. Their monthly adoption day at the Petsmart in Downers Grove was yesterday.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

Bethany B. said:


> Oh but the next is in Brookfield. That's only 25 mins away.  Thanks. I think it's all going to be about meeting the right dog. We'll just keep trying until we find one that works.


We all want to thank you for taking such a thoughtful approach to finding your next family member.


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## hsuthard (Jan 6, 2010)

Just to offer our experience, we found a 10-month old poodle via Craigslist and he has been a spectacular pet! Poodles and poodle mixes usually aren't too hard to find, and are typically very good with children. We've also had great experiences with rescue groups, although like mentioned already, they ae very choosy on finding the right home for their dog. Good luck, searching and playing with dogs in weekends sounds like a great way to spend your time in any case.


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## DD Graphix (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm reading this thread, and I am going to apologize in advance if I seem overly blunt on the subject. It is never my intent to upset or anger anyone, but sometimes we have to be honestly truthful; or at least, I feel I should bring up some things that may help you think about whether a dog is right for you, and what kind of dog you should get.

My background is 30 years in dogs, showing, training, teaching classes, member of several breed clubs, etc. Dogs are my vocation and avocation; most of my graphic design work actually revolves around the dog world.

I know the expense can seem high, but I'm not sure you have yet grasped how expensive a dog can and will be in general. Even if you get a free dog, you still need to feed a quality food (not Sams crap), get regular checkups, grooming (in some breeds), nail trims, collars, leashes, a safe crate for him (he will absolutely need a place he can feel safe with your kids), as well as training. And yes, if you get a dog you should pay for training classes, not just try to train the dog yourself, ESPECIALLY with two autistic children.

As a dog welfare advocate, I would admit to some concerns with a small dog and children especially autistic children, and especially when you say things get "wild" around your house. Would wild mean that the kids might torment, tease, pinch, hit, pummel, push, or throw a dog? Of course I have zero idea of how your children may react, but will say that with kids in general, too many parents feel the dog should take almost any kind of punishment, with the result that the dog bites and the child is harmed and dog killed for defending himself, and/or the dog is badly hurt by the child. How well would the children be supervised when around the dog? If your household is already kind of crazy, would you really have the time to be able to monitor ALL activity, making sure both children and dog stay safe? Again, this situation would be a big red flag for me, and I would want absolute assurances of training CLASSES with dog and children; another expense.

You are in an apartment? Yes? Could you confidently say that the dog would never be outside without a leash, ever? A loose dog is often a dead dog. 

If you got a dog from a breeder and cost is a consideration, do you have the money to pay for spay/neuter? And if you did go to a breeder, I can tell you that no responsible, caring hobby breeder is going to sell a puppy for less than about $500, and many are far more expensive. Pet prices in Dobermans right now are about $1,500. Why? Because responsible breeders work very hard to breed dogs that are tested for genetic disease, the proper size, structure, and temperament for the breed. And it's very expensive to do that. Back yard breeders are the ones you'll find hawking dogs on craigslist and in the local paper, and those dogs will NOT be from health tested parents (and I'm not talking vet checked, I'm talking screened for inherited genetic disease such as hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, eye issues, etc.). Buy a dog from one of those breeders and you could be buying a huge mess of vet bills.

If you really feel you can 100% monitor your dog and kids, if you can make a 10+ year commitment, if you have the money to not just pay for the dog but also quality food, supplies, training classes, and any and all emergencies that crop up, then my advice would be to find a breed you like and work with a breed rescue organization. They often have the ability to do more screening on temperament, etc. than a regular humane society.

But if you are not sure you can do all of those things, and just want a dog because you want it.... maybe you should reconsider.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jane917 said:


> Watch for adoption fairs. Shelters take their best behaved dogs and have special incentives for adoption. Around here they are held at PetCo or the fairgrounds. Warning: Be prepared to fall in love!


That's how I got my Angelo from PetSmart. Petco, PetSmart and Pet Supermarket all sponsor adoption days. Check the stores websites for dates and times.


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## DD Graphix (Jul 15, 2011)

Whoa. Go back and read what I wrote again. I made zero assumptions about your children or your parenting skills, and did not say a thing about apartment living, other than that if you are going to be in an apartment, your dog will have to be on leash at all times when outdoors. That actually applies to homes without fenced yards as well. I was asking very honest questions.

I brought these questions up because they ARE the types of things that adopters/rescuers/breeders are going to be wondering about and want to know. You can either react defensively, or you can realize that they are valid questions. It's better that you react defensively HERE than in front of an adopter, because if you do it THERE, you won't be getting a dog. I do NOT know you, your children, or your situation. I can only go by what you wrote; you have two autistic children, and things tend to get wild. You wrote nothing about what "wild" meant, hence my questions. 

Your entire post was about how horribly expensive you thought adoptions were. How are we supposed to take that other than that you are reluctant to pay money? That implies possible income issues and/or a reluctance to spend money on a dog, especially with a very busy household with two kids.

Unfortunately, I have heard stories like yours all to many times from the other end; when people are dumping their dog because it was too expensive, too much work, they didn't want to spend money for classes, couldn't afford vet bills, the dog bit the child (after the child body slammed/yanked/pulled, and otherwise physically hurt the dog). Dogs die because people want them but don't really think through what that means and the impact on their lives. I hoped to help you think honestly to yourself about that impact, so that you can make a realistic decision.

ALL children under a certain age have a lot of issues with empathy toward other beings. It's actually a physical developmental phenomenon; they know they can feel pain, but can't understand yet that others can feel pain. It's only after the brain matures to a certain rate (in ALL children!) that the change happens. I forget what age it is, somewhere around four or five I believe. I certainly never intended to attack your children.


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## jabeard (Apr 22, 2011)

DD Graphix said:


> I'm reading this thread, and I am going to apologize in advance if I seem overly blunt on the subject. It is never my intent to upset or anger anyone, but sometimes we have to be honestly truthful; or at least, I feel I should bring up some things that may help you think about whether a dog is right for you, and what kind of dog you should get.


Hey, the husband here.

A) She's had dogs most of her life. She spent thousand of dollars on life-extending medical care for several of her dogs. It's been a few years, but this is not her first dog (nor my first dog). We'r both well well-aware of the upkeep cost of dogs. This isn't just, "Hey, I think a dog would be neat all of sudden."

B) We've discussed food, training, walking (we live in the upper-midwest so there's practical considerations during the winter) and other such logistical matters extensively.

C) Our kids have been around multiple dogs. Both grandparents have owned or own dogs. So, yeah, we know how they react around dogs in general and nor would we let them physically abuse the dog in any way. It's mostly about having a dog that won't freak out if the kids are a little loud.

D) Yes, we live in an apartment, with a gated back patio and several layers of locked doors between the outside. It'd actually be harder for a dog to wander off unleashed from here than in many of the houses I've lived in.

Considering I've seen our kids play extensively with several dogs like this, it's not an unreasonable expectation. For many years I had an extremely skittish Blue Merle Sheltie. It would be an awful dog for loud kids because it freaked out at any loud noise. So mentioning we have autistic kids is mostly about trying to find a more laid back dog and not waste our time or anyone else's time dealing with a dog that can't handle that.

It's certainly not an attempt to say, "Hey, we don't care at all if my kids abuse a dog."

Like I said, my wife had dogs most of her life. I grew up with dogs. We both know the expense and training required over the long-run. In fact, we were just yesterday discussing various training classes. One of the main reasons for wanting a puppy over a slightly older dog (and we came close to getting a 1-year-old the other day) is our desire to make sure we have appropriate professional training from day one.

Mostly, the surprise at the prices has to do with previous pricing in different areas. It's just more expensive here for shelter dogs than in several places we lived before, so it's been slightly surprising.

We couldn't, because of our housing situation, have a dog for several years, and it's just now that we can, so it's coming back up. This isn't some ill-thought whim where one day we just woke up and said, "You know, a dog sounds neat."


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## Shinteetah (Jul 24, 2012)

Coming in a bit late....  My day job is in animal behavior and pet training. I teach lessons, classes, workshops, and courses for professional trainers. I say that not to toot my own shiny horn, but to emphasize that my advice comes from seeing LOTS of horror stories result from failing to follow good advice.

The cost of acquiring a dog, from any source, is negligible compared to the lifetime cost of care and training. Yes, both! especially with an apartment, with children, and with special-needs kids. "Autistic" covers a pretty wide spectrum, so I'm not sure exactly what your situation may be, but it's safe to say that planning ahead always beats trying to recover. I can do a fantastic amount of training, but I can't ever change the past. 

If you're in the Chicagoland area I would be happy to recommend some really excellent trainers, who would work with you and your kids personally (they, like me, are also TAGteach-certified and would be great with special-needs kids). This isn't negotiable, because planning and training is far less expensive than doctor bills, vet bills, bills from your landlord, suits from your neighbor, or a lifetime of emotional baggage in your kids from "waiting to see how things go."

That said, a shelter dog can be VERY affordable, and good rescue organizations are far better about placing a dog in a personality-appropriate home than a classified ad. A good breeder is another safe option, but as DD Graphix pointed out, you're going to pay for their work. It's worth it, in my opinion, but it's still an expense. I'm working with several families right now who went the classified/Craigslist route and are now spending far more on training and medication; there's a chance of a great dog, sure! but it's a gamble they lost.

My advice is, never gamble with family members. Do your research, take your time, and get the dog that will be BEST for your family -- regardless of breed or mix or color or source. If you want contact info for those Chicago trainers, let me know, and I'm sure they will be happy to help you in the process (trainers LOVE success stories so much more than horror stories!). Trainers also often know of great dogs in need of a new home (I had a fantastic team work through class, great dog, and then the owner went into hospice and contacted me for help in finding her dog a new place).

Good luck!


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## jabeard (Apr 22, 2011)

> you're in the Chicagoland area I would be happy to recommend some really excellent trainers, who would work with you and your kids personally (they, like me, are also TAGteach-certified and would be great with special-needs kids). This isn't negotiable, because planning and training is far less expensive than doctor bills, vet bills, bills from your landlord, suits from your neighbor, or a lifetime of emotional baggage in your kids from "waiting to see how things go."


If you could PM them or e-mail them ([email protected]), that would be most appreciated. Thanks!


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## DD Graphix (Jul 15, 2011)

Stories like yours. Yes. Young couple, two kids, admits things get wild, want a dog, complaining about expense. That is a VERY common story that often ends up with a very bad end for the dog. Did you speak at all about your experience in dogs, your plans for taking care of the dog, what "wild" meant? You did not. You then took complete offense because I asked you some questions.

Believe it or not, neither I nor anyone else reading this has ESP. Until your husband posted, the above was pretty much all I had to go on. I have no idea who you are, but I have heard this type of story hundreds of times. It's not ignorance when you don't clarify.

Best of luck in getting a dog. As I posted to your husband, I would emphasize your experience and how you will handle some of the issues you deal with first  and primarily, in addition to being honest about your situation. Not just "I have two autistic children and things tend to get wild," but "I have two autistic children but we're used to dogs, we've got a lot of dog experience, and this is how we do things..."

If you had done that in the first place, my post would never have happened. It was certainly not intended to offend you. I'm done with this.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

Whoa, slow down people! Bethany has obviously done her homework and has spent considerable time thinking about how she would fit a dog/puppy into her family. I am now going to step up on my soapbox. I just retired from 37 years working in special education in public schools. I would never presume to know what a parent knows about their child with autism, or any other developmental disorder, but I have witnessed time after time after time families with children with various disabilities, autism included, very successfully integrate an animal into their household. I have also witnessed families with 'typically developing" children who should never subject a pet to the behavior in their home. Any parent with couple of children (me included) would be well within the norm to say "things get a bit wild around here." Bethany has considered cost, location, family dynamics, breed personalities, options to finding the right dog.....I am putting my money on Bethany's family  to be a great dog home. 

We have special programs that unite kids with disabilities with horses, dolphins, dogs, cats. There is a real connection to be made. Good for animal, good for child. Good for family. Good for speech pathologist (that would be me) when the child comes to school and can tell me a story about his/her weekend with the dog. Off the soapbox now.


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## Shinteetah (Jul 24, 2012)

jabeard said:


> If you could PM them or e-mail them ([email protected]), that would be most appreciated. Thanks!


Sent!


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## Shinteetah (Jul 24, 2012)

Jane917 said:


> We have special programs that unite kids with disabilities with horses, dolphins, dogs, cats. There is a real connection to be made. Good for animal, good for child. Good for family. Good for speech pathologist (that would be me) when the child comes to school and can tell me a story about his/her weekend with the dog.


One of the names I just sent was a trainer whose first career was decades of working with autistic children and integrating animal therapy, now recently become a professional dog trainer as well (in part to augment those programs). She's great. I really hope they're local and things work out!


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## jabeard (Apr 22, 2011)

Shinteetah said:


> Sent!


Thank you very much.


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## Jane917 (Dec 29, 2009)

Bethany B. said:


> On another note, I've considered going the therapy dog route. They would be trained to deal with the quirks of our kids and could help with socialization and such. Anyone have any experience with this? My only worry is that it wouldn't really feel like a family dog. You see, I also enjoy the love and comfort of a dog. This is as much for me as it is for everyone else. If anyone has any thoughts as to the therapy dog route, I'd love to hear them.


My only experience with therapy dogs are those trained dogs that are brought in to assist in therapy, whether it be speech therapy, occupational therapy, or physical therapy. They are working dogs, and go home with their trainers. I think it would be confusing to have a dog in the home that provided both snuggly doggy love along with working therapy. I have a friend who has a therapy dog trained by the Delta Society. When the dog is home, it is her pet. The dog comes to school with her and is a special education therapy dog. Here is the link to the Delta Society, which I now see has changed its name: http://www.deltasociety.org/


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

Just checking back in here. An observation--DD Graphix speaks from experience and I must admit, I've had the same types of situations happen. I've also read posts before from several on this list and do not believe there was ANY intention to belittle--only to help by gaining more information. *BIG BREATH!*

The animal professionals who have posted on this thread--and yep, I'm one, as a certified animal behavior consultant--often see the fall out from the worst situations, and these sometimes happen despite the best intentions. I'm not judging or predicting anyone here. In fact after reading through, based on the posted comments, there are some very savvy pet folks here who have done their homework. That's terrific!

Remember too, though, that others may read this thread who haven't posted and maybe are not as savvy or as prepared. So anything posted here has the potential to help "lurkers." 

As for therapy animals for autistic children, yes--I know of some organizations that train autism assistance dogs that partner with children. They usually have a waiting list and can be quite pricy (thousands of dollars). But I'm happy to provide some links for further research, too. The spectrum has such a wide range of challenges that a one-size-fits-all dog/training isn't advisable although some basics likely apply to any child-animal partnership. 

I truly hope the best furry matches can be made. It's magic when everything falls into place! And the folks posting to this thread want what's best not only for the human family involved, but the furry wonders who will join the family.

peace,

Amy Shojai, CABC


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## Shinteetah (Jul 24, 2012)

Bethany B. said:


> On another note, I've considered going the therapy dog route. They would be trained to deal with the quirks of our kids and could help with socialization and such. Anyone have any experience with this?


There are a host of differences, including legal, between a "service" dog and a "therapy" dog. From your very brief description above, this sounds like a potential service dog -- and while it is possible and legal to train your own, I usually recommend the aid of a professional, especially for training and defining that all-important mitigation which makes the legal break.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

Jane917 said:


> I am putting my money on Bethany's family to be a great dog home.


Me too !!!


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Just for the record I don't think DD Graphix posted was even a little out of line. They were honest observations and relevant concerns that most reputable adoptions groups or breeders would have and would ask about. There was nothing in the posts that suggested a personal attack on the OP. Unlike the responses to the posts that used adjectives such as 'rude' and 'ignorant' which WERE personal attacks and totally uncalled for IMO. 
When someone posts on a public forum they have to be prepared to get a variety of responses. I think it would behoove any of us to take it all in with grace. Even when things are posted that are not what one hopes to hear, that doesn't automatically render them unworthy of consideration. 
Bethany, I'm sure that there is a dog out there that needs a home that will be a good fit for your family. There are some dynamics with your situation that are outside the typical applications that adoption groups get and there will likely be some hard questions posed based on concerns such as DD Graphix outlined. I suggest you read through the post again and keep an open mind and prepare yourself for a more conducive way to respond. Good luck!


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Bethany B. said:


> I'm not going to rehash this. It was said and I take nothing back.


I'm so sorry to read this. I have worked as a volunteer with rescue groups and took in applications, made the calls and interviewed potential adopters. I've had to ask the hard questions and record the responses. I don't get a vote on whether an application is approved/denied. I can tell you that applicants that come across with this attitude often are not successful with adoption groups. Belligerence and defensive remarks are red flags that will come back to haunt you.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

I really don't think questions like that are unreasonable. The point is, no one else does know what your family or life is like, so they _have_ to ask. I'd be prepared for questions like how your children act around animals, if you plan to keep the dog on a leash, what vet you plan to use, if you know how expensive certain things are. The good thing is, it sounds like you have all that covered and there are no huge issues, but you still need to be prepared to answer those things without getting defensive or angry. Anyone trying to match you with a dog only wants the best for both of you and some of the questions will be awkward, but necessary.

I'm super excited to hear what route you go and hope to see pictures of a dog companion soon!


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

DD Graphix said:


> I'm reading this thread, and I am going to apologize in advance if I seem overly blunt on the subject. It is never my intent to upset or anger anyone, *but sometimes we have to be honestly truthful*; or at least, *I feel I should bring up some things that may help you think about whether a dog is right for you, and what kind of dog you should get.*


That "we" is condescending.

You addressed Bethany directly.

I took your initial post as quite critical too -- not just offering info.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Bethany B. said:


> I can't imagine parents of normally developing children meet this kind of resistance.


Ummm . . . yes, actually. They often do. Some groups have a hard-and-fast policy that they won't adopt any dog to families with children younger than a certain age. And sometimes it's just specific dogs. Large, high-energy dogs often aren't good fits for homes with small children, as the dog can easily hurt a child by just knocking against them or jumping up. Very small dogs often won't be adopted to homes with young kids, as the kids can easily hurt the dog w/o meaning to. And those policies aren't in place randomly or because the powers-that-be just don't like little kids. It's because experience has taught them that some dogs just don't mix well with young kids. Hard as I'm sure it is to "hear" for parents of young kids, the policies are generally there for sound reasons. The rescue groups want you (generic "you") to be happy with your new pet. They want the new pet to be in it's forever home.

And that brings up the question -- If you don't mind saying, Bethany, how old are your kids?

In general in your situation I'm thinking more and more that a good fit for your family may be a Lab or a Golden (or a mix with one or both of those breeds). Most of the sporting/hunting breeds of dogs are touch insensitive. They've been bred to jump into icy cold ponds and run through briars, so they don't mind when little kids poke or prod them or (accidentally) hit them upside the head with a toy. Not saying you'd allow those things, but with kids it does happen. I've got two boys of my own. They're teenagers now, but believe me I remember what it was like when they were younger. The dogs they grew up with were a Brittany and a beagle, both sporting/hunting breeds. And they were very forgiving of typical young boy antics. The flip side of that is, until they get some training some of those breeds don't think a thing of plowing down a kid or adult, especially when they're caught up in playing. And the sporting/hunting breeds tend to have lots of energy and so need a lot of exercise, especially when they're younger.

As far as Craiglist -- I've known some people who've gotten wonderful dogs from Craigslist. But you have to be careful. Someone advertising a six- or eight-week old puppy for "rehoming" with a "rehoming fee" of $200 or more is w/o a doubt a back yard breeder and you may end up with a chronically ill, behaviorally unsound dog. And I read a lot of ads on Craigslist and I would bet you a million dollars it's a dog who's never been to the vet, never been groomed, never been out of it's own yard and very likely may have spent 18-20 hours a day in a crate. Certainly that dog could benefit from getting out of that situation. But it's likely going to be a much bigger "project dog" than you want. So if you go the Craigslist route just be really careful.

One source I don't think you've mentioned is your local county/municipal shelter. IOW, the dog pound. Don't rule those out. There are often some really wonderful dogs to be found there. The adoption fees are generally relatively low, and the adoption process is generally fairly simple.


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

Bethany B. said:


> I would love to get a lab or a retriever. I actually grew up with a chocolate lab and he was such an amazing dog. The only thing holding me back that my apartment doesn't allow dogs over 35. I could likely fudge it to 40 or 45 but I know labs and retriever are well over that. I've seen a number of beagle/lab mixes and have thought about going that direction.


Yes, I was thinking of your size limitations and that's why I said a mix with one of those breeds. Lab/beagle mixes can be great dogs.



> I have been checking at the Chicago pound. They are cheap, 65 and come with shots/wormed/dipped/chipped. The problem is currently they have mainly pitbull terriers, which I'm not allowed to have here.
> 
> Has anyone found that these places don't put up all the dogs via petfinder? I just wonder if the more adoptable ones don't make it up since they go quickly. It's just a thought I had.


Your thought is correct. It's not uncommon for larger shelters to have hundreds of dogs. They can't get all of them on Petfinder. Plus there can be a significant lag time between when a dog comes in and someone (often a volunteer) takes a picture and uploads it to Petfinder.

Another reason I forgot to point out about why a rescue group might not adopt a particular dog to a family with young kids has to do with possessiveness. Some dogs get very possessive about food or their toys. Those are things an adult only home, or a home where the kids are dog-savvy teens, can usually deal with fairly easily. But they aren't behaviors you'd want at all in a dog around young kids.


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## bordercollielady (Nov 21, 2008)

I've been reading this thread and I was also wondering if you would consider a Golden.  I have raised and lost two Goldens in my life (now I have border collie mixes..) and my two were the sweetest/gentlest guys in the world.  Only thing is that you won't find many in shelters (they get adopted really fast).. you would have more luck with a rescue group or a breeder.    Knowing the temperament of a Golden,  I believe the fit would be perfect..

I just remembered that your apt has size limits.. that is unfortunate.. maybe a Golden mix?  Or - a female Golden is much smaller than a male.


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## sheiler1963 (Nov 23, 2011)

Bethany B. said:


> Red flags to what exactly? This sound less like a bad match and more like someone trying to prove something. I have nothing to prove. My house is clean, I pay my bills, I have savings and I'm completely upfront about my children. Hard questions my foot. I worked as a family support specialist. I've seen real horror. And what you ask are not the hard questions. Let's drop the God complex and get back to the point.


Ahh but Bethany, you DO have something to prove. You have to prove to an adoption group that you are a worthy home for one of their pets. There are people here that have worked in animal rescue who are trying to help you by pointing out things that the groups will consider and ask about. Nobody is criticizing YOU personally, yet you seem to see personal attacks where there aren't any. 
People who work with rescue groups have seen situations as well that are heart-breaking. You don't own the patent on real horror. They have seen the 'perfect' application that goes wrong and seen a once healthy and well balanced dog come back to the shelter sick or traumatized or just dumped because it didn't work out. These people start to ask themselves, 'What did I do wrong, how did I fail, what should I have done differently?' When they have done this for a few yrs they do become a little jaded, begin asking pointier questions and taking it personally because they don't want to fail the dog. It's got nothing to do with being 'rude, ignorant, or having a God Complex'. 
So how about we drop the Victim complex and get back to the point of finding for you the RIGHT dog for your situation. I know there are dogs that will be just right if you just slow down and take that time to find him or her. Believe it or not, I'm on your side and crossing my fingers that this happens for you and your family. 
For what it's worth the dog I ended up with my first time around was a Bichon for my home and my kidlet. They are very smart, easy to train, great with kids, friendly little moppets. I think a Bichon or a mix would work out very well for you.


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## ◄ Jess ► (Apr 21, 2010)

sheiler1963 said:


> I know there are dogs that will be just right if you just slow down and take that time to find him or her. Believe it or not, I'm on your side and crossing my fingers that this happens for you and your family.


I think everyone is on your side here, Bethany. I haven't read any posts that say that you shouldn't get a dog. Everyone is just pointing out suggestions, things to think about, and asking questions about your situation. I've had wonderful experiences with springer spaniels, although they do require more grooming. The ones I've met have been super patient with kids poking and prodding, and they're pretty easy-going. They are a bit heavy though, so maybe you could find a mix of some kind. I've heard they're pretty good for apartments too.

Have you checked out the Anti-Cruelty Society? I walk past there every day and they have a lot of dogs. The prices are only $150 for a puppy or $95 for a dog. I'm not sure if they're listed on petfinder or not.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

My brother's family adopted a retired Golden show dog (for free) from a breeder--the only restriction was they were required to have her spayed. I think she was four years old at the time, and had a "mommy" attitude after raising a couple of her own litters. She helped raise their kids (age 7, 3 and 2 at the time of adoption). 

Good luck.


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