# Device limits: Releasing licenses?



## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

I did a search on this topic, but the latest threads I could find were all several years old...

If I deregister a Kindle, will that automatically release all of the book licenses, freeing them up to be added to more devices, or do I have to manually erase each book from my Kindle and then deregister?

If anyone knows for sure, I'd be grateful. Hope I can avoid manually deleting each book. 

Thanks!


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## SusanCassidy (Nov 9, 2008)

Not sure about deregistering, but if you delete the book from one of your Kindles, then sync, that should free up a license, so that you can use it on another Kindle.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm pretty sure deregistering now frees up the licenses; it didn't used to, but it has for a few years now.

Betsy


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

I recently tried this and it actually now seems only deregistering frees up licenses - I couldn't free licenses by just removing the books (I was connected and did sync), I needed to deregister too and that's what the on-screen prompts said too. After deregistering, the licenses were freed. Of course it is possible I missed something and there would have been some other way, I didn't spend much time testing it, but that was my experience so far.

I think the reason deregistering is used to free licenses is that each book, when downloaded, is assigned a certain Kindle registration. Remove that registration from a device, Amazon knows that those same books can't be opened up on any (DRM compliant) Kindle.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

SusanCassidy said:


> Not sure about deregistering, but if you delete the book from one of your Kindles, then sync, that should free up a license, so that you can use it on another Kindle.


Just removing the book from the device won't stop you from having a USB download or backup on the PC, going offline and loading the book back on the device. Deregistering should make the book file incompatible with the device and that's why it is needed - that's my theory anyway.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FearIndex said:


> Just removing the book from the device won't stop you from having a USB download or backup on the PC, going offline and loading the book back on the device. Deregistering should make the book file incompatible with the device and that's why it is needed - that's my theory anyway.


Deregistering may free up licenses but that certainly shouldn't be the ONLY way to do it. Normally removing the book file from the kindle . . . . assuring a sync then happens . . . .should release the license and allow you to put the book onto another device. But the only way to REALLY test this is to use a book that has a device limit (The default is a 6 device limit unless it says something else) and at least that many plus 1 kindles/apps. Download it to the maximum number of devices . . . try to download it on the extra one and see that you can't. Then delete/remove it from the Kindle properly and now you SHOULD be able to download it to the 'extra' device. I did actually verify this once when I had more than 6 devices registered to my account. And there are other members here who have or have had 'too many' kindles  and have also said that this is exactly the behavior they've experienced.

You can't just remove it by fiddling with the file structure, though, while the device is connected to your computer. That doesn't necessarily send the signal back to Amazon that you've removed it. Deleting/removing on the Kindle device (or app) does. Early on, people were doing that and then complaining that their licenses got used up early. . . .but it was because Amazon had no 'record' that the first file had been properly deleted when the second file was downloaded. I think this may have changed though in the last couple of years.

It is true that, if you've got it backed up on your computer, you can remove it from the device and then re-load it from the back up file. With DRM intact, it will work on the original device. And Amazon may think it's still deleted. But it will _only_ work on the same device from which it had been copied -- you can't put it on another device and expect it to work unless you've violated TOS and removed the copy protection. I think, though, that amazon might have closed up that loophole. I think that now whenever you sync, information goes back and forth about what is and isn't on the kindle relative to the account. And both ends are updated. So if you put a previously deleted book back on from your computer back up, Amazon will know that and will count that license used. Assuming you've not violated TOS by removing copy protection in the mean time.

In early Kindle history, releasing licenses wasn't as automatic as it is now. . . . we did have some folks who ran up against the device limit when they had to get several replacement kindles. It was a bit of a pain to get licenses released on devices that had frozen or otherwise failed -- leaving no way to manipulate them to do the deletion properly. With subsequent kindles and amazon system upgrades, it became the norm that resetting to factory conditions will release all licenses. I know this was the case with my original DX which I gave to my aunt back in 2010.

It is definitely the case that when you re-register it, that WILL do things now that didn't used to happen. Used to be a fairly normal thing was to have a 'family account' and a 'grown up' account. A parent could put their kids kindles on the family account, as well as the parent's own, but could switch hers briefly to the 'grown up' account when she wanted to read something that she didn't want the little kids to have access to. It worked just fine -- ended up a kindle could, without any problem, have books from more than one account on it at the same time -- though it could only actually be registered to one account.

NOW, when you re-register to the SAME account -- any thing you did while it was un-registered will be re-synced and up to date. So things you deleted in between will be counted for releasing the license, or if you deleted entirely things from the cloud via MYK they won't show in the cloud on the device now. If you register it to a NEW account, once it syncs, all the content from the original account will be wiped -- and I think that's when the licenses are released. This makes sense when you realize the TOS says you can't give or sell kindles with content in tact, but did mean that folks who'd switch devices between their own and their kids accounts for non-nefarious reasons meant that wouldn't work any more.

So, I still kinda think it's not the DE-registering that frees up the licenses, but RE-registering of the kindle to another account. But I've not tried too hard to sus it out.  And I've not personally had reason to care too much lately -- the experiment I described earlier I did a few years ago and, as I say, I think they're systems/processes have changed some since then.

To specifically answer CS's question: if you want to remove all the books, just reset it to factory settings. . .that will do so AND free up the licenses. If you only want to remove some of the books, you have to do it one book at a time. If you de-register, the licenses may release, but as soon as you register it again to the same account, they'll be counted again as used on that device. I've no idea what would happen if, in the mean time, you have them used on 6 other devices so that there is, technically, no license left. I'm guessing any such books will be removed from the device on re-registration.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

Ann in Arlington said:


> But the only way to REALLY test this is to use a book that has a device limit (The default is a 6 device limit unless it says something else) and at least that many plus 1 kindles/apps. Download it to the maximum number of devices . . . try to download it on the extra one and see that you can't. Then delete/remove it from the Kindle properly and now you SHOULD be able to download it to the 'extra' device. I did actually verify this once when I had more than 6 devices registered to my account. And there are other members here who have or have had 'too many' kindles  and have also said that this is exactly the behavior they've experienced.


Well, FWIW, once again I am reporting a different experience. 

I actually hit, for the very first time, the device limit (I believe it was 6) on a book a few weeks ago. I've had "too many Kindles" for some time already, but haven't read the same books on all of them... Anyway, I was prompted - by Kindle Paperwhite 2 no less - to deregister a device to free licenses. I went on to remove the book, from an earlier Kindle, via the Kindle device "remove from device" menu option (not via PC or file system), when connected to Whispernet, synced afterwards and the PW2 still refused to install the book, synced again and still nothing. Then I went on to deregister the older kindle and immediately PW2 downloaded the book. The screen prompt, I recall, was pretty explicit about needing to deregister, but I did still try "remove from device" first and it failed to work.

But again, I haven't tested this very thoroughly, so it isn't impossible I missed something.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

By the way, after that incident I also tried de-registering a device that still had DRMed books on it. Those books remained readable after de-registering, at least for the short while I tried it (I didn't reboot or anything). So, that part is possible as Ann describes it certainly - although it doesn't make sense why they'd allow that. No idea if this case would release the licenses as I didn't research that. In the case where I needed to free a license for a book, I had removed it from the device and then de-registered only after removing failed to work.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I can't speak at all to whether removing books from a device frees up a license, never having tested it, but deregistering, as you discovered, is supposed to work.  In the early days of Kindle, deregistering did NOT free up the license, and people who sold or otherwise disposed of Kindles had to contact customer service to get licenses back for specific books.  Seems like it's been about three years since they've changed this....

We really should have a timeline of significant events in Kindle history. 

Betsy


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## Toby (Nov 25, 2008)

Delete abook from 1 device. Do a sync. Put on another device.


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## FearIndex (Oct 10, 2012)

FearIndex said:


> Well, FWIW, once again I am reporting a different experience.
> 
> I actually hit, for the very first time, the device limit (I believe it was 6) on a book a few weeks ago. I've had "too many Kindles" for some time already, but haven't read the same books on all of them... Anyway, I was prompted - by Kindle Paperwhite 2 no less - to deregister a device to free licenses. I went on to remove the book, from an earlier Kindle, via the Kindle device "remove from device" menu option (not via PC or file system), when connected to Whispernet, synced afterwards and the PW2 still refused to install the book, synced again and still nothing. Then I went on to deregister the older kindle and immediately PW2 downloaded the book. The screen prompt, I recall, was pretty explicit about needing to deregister, but I did still try "remove from device" first and it failed to work.
> 
> But again, I haven't tested this very thoroughly, so it isn't impossible I missed something.


I decided to test how I'd fare with book removal/license freeing on the second go. I loaded The Hobbit onto six Kindles that I registered to the same account: PW1, PW2, $69 Kindle "5", DXB, Kindle 3 Keyboard and $79 Kindle "4". This went fine. All were loaded through the device Archive/Cloud items, while connected via 3G or Wi-Fi. Then I tried to load it onto Kindle 2 via 3G - the seventh Kindle - and got this screen:










Then I went back to the $79 Kindle "4", removed the book, re-synced from menu and re-tried on the Kindle 2. It worked! Now trying to load it back onto the $79 Kindle "4" got the same error as above. I removed the book from the Kindle 2, re-synced, re-downloaded on the $79 Kindle "4" and again it worked. Then I removed the book from the $79 Kindle "4" but did not re-sync, now Kindle 2 refused to load the book with the same message as above. Re-synced $79 Kindle "4" and then the book loaded to the Kindle 2 again.

So, this time removing and re-syncing worked in freeing the book license. Removing without re-syncing from menu didn't work. That said, last time, with a different book and slightly different set of Kindles, removing and re-syncing did not free the license - and I tried a couple of times back then too, no help. I don't know what was the problem then, was it the different book, the different time, the different Kindle setup or what did I maybe miss, but that was the experience then.


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