# The New KBoards TOS



## Guest (Sep 14, 2018)

For those of you that don't venture into the Writer's Cafe, there is an ongoing discussion regarding the new TOS changes initiated by the new site owners. The new terms are highly problematic and a huge rights grab. Because readers may not visit the Cafe, I wanted to share here to give folks a chance to review.

https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,267677.0.html


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

If anyone wants to read it in its entirety, just scroll completely to the bottom of any KB page and click on the blue-linked Terms of Use.  The link does take you completely off site.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Sad Day.....I've been a member here since 2008 but looks like 10 years is the limit.  I understand selling after Harvey was lost....but I don't see the great community built here surviving as a big Corp spam list. I don't think it will matter to Verticalscope either....they already got our info to sell


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## 1131 (Dec 18, 2008)

.


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm not techie.  So this is why lately I've gotten extreme amount of spam in my account??!!  I'll have to say good-bye too.


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## Brownskins (Nov 18, 2011)

Since I sometimes am unable to read between the lines, what are the repercussions that we need to anticipate resulting from the buyout?

So far, what I seem to see (and I could be wrong) are as follows:

1)  Members who are writers are at risk of giving up their copyrights over pics, discussions and other items that were or are disclosed in KB, whether in the forum or in the messages
2)  All of our interaction here is now publicly searchable
3)  All of our email and membership info is now floating in the market and we should expect (or are already experiencing) more marketing emails in our registered accounts
4)  People within the forum will be less "free-speaking" and thus unable to replicate the community and friendship atmosphere we used to enjoy

Any other (theoretical or otherwise) implications?


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Brownskins said:


> Since I sometimes am unable to read between the lines, what are the repercussions that we need to anticipate resulting from the buyout?
> 
> So far, what I seem to see (and I could be wrong) are as follows:
> 
> ...


2) has always been true. The rest of your points have already come to pass. I don't know if anything is salvageable at this point. It's depressing to see this once-vibrant community where I have made virtual and real-life friends dying in front of our eyes. I wish we had known _something_, _anything_, before the sale to a predatory company came to pass.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Pretty sure posts where always publicly searchable. I mean Kboards came up in google searches all the time. 

Obviously the authors are upset. Clearly. But since I am not a writer, just a reader and poster here, there isn't really any other place for me to go. None of the newish areas the authors are wanting to spread out to are reader friendly. They are specifically created for authors only. So its taking the writers cafe off site I guess. No having to deal with pesky readers anymore I guess?  

For the rest of us, I have no clue what this all means. I been here since 2008. I don't belong to any other forums and its pretty much the only place I talk about books and movies and tea and such. I had in the past also hung out over in the writers section, but was kind of made not welcome one too many times by some of the writers there so I stopped bothering. I always wished more of them would have bothered to come out into the other areas more. 
On the other hand maybe that is now a good thing with so many deleting all their posts, including thread titles. That makes the whole thread go away and so basically dumps on all of us that posted in them. At least I get to keep my beloved book threads. For now at least. 

I guess they already have my email. I don't post anything worth monetizing so the legal stuff doesn't apply to me as it does to content creators like authors. 

To be honest, I feel a bit lost. Still here and posting. But I feel a bit naked.


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## loonlover (Jul 4, 2009)

Atunah, you are not alone in feeling a bit lost. Guess I'll stick around a little while and see how things go. There are several very enjoyable authors I would never have known about if it weren't for KBoards. We've also shared some pretty good recipes in a few different threads through the years.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

A lot of what I read over the last few years has come from recommendations in threads right here. Lots of the tea I have drunk came from here. Well, not the tea, but the knowledge of that tea.  
Lots of my smiles have come from here. And on days when I felt really not so great, I came here. 

We aren't just words on a screen. All those connections, even if they seem trivial to some, it adds up. For years. Its like a web of teeny strings and one realizes just how much one values those connections when its threatened.


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## Brownskins (Nov 18, 2011)

Atunah said:


> To be honest, I feel a bit lost. Still here and posting. But I feel a bit naked.





loonlover said:


> Atunah, you are not alone in feeling a bit lost. Guess I'll stick around a little while and see how things go. There are several very enjoyable authors I would never have known about if it weren't for KBoards. We've also shared some pretty good recipes in a few different threads through the years.


Ha. I feel exactly the same way. I was inactive for over a year due to work and travels, came back, and first post I read was on the announcement of the change. And I also noticed I don't hear from *telracs* anymore. I like the people here and have met a few in person. I am a male and a bit younger, but I love yall's company. I hope the forum survives (at least the reader community portion). Writers cafe has always been kind of separate and feels a bit elite. I comment there once in a while, but they don't engage as warmly as the rest do - presumably cause I appear stalker-like since I am not an author.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

It seems to me, from monitoring the boards in the last few days, that most of the concern is among authors who fear comments they make here might be used in ways they would not authorize if given the choice. Some have chosen to manually delete their posts. Some asked for account and post deletion but we mods have been told not to do that and, in fact, can no longer delete an account if a member requests it. I disagree with that policy.

That said, for now, I'm still here. I figure I'll spend time in the Book Corner because that's where all the cool people give me recommendations for books I actually WANT to read.  I admit I never bought much from author self-promo. Of the books I did buy based on that, maybe half I was glad I bought and would go on to buy more from the author.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Not that it makes things any better/worse for anyone concerned about it, but if you look at the TOS/TOU agreements for any of the major web forums and such out there, I believe you'll find pretty much the same terms. I'm no lawyer, so don't know if it's to protect themselves as opposed to some nefarious plot to subvert copyright ownership. For instance, the Facebook TOS includes:


> Permission to use content you create and share: You own the content you create and share on Facebook and the other Facebook Products you use, and nothing in these Terms takes away the rights you have to your own content. You are free to share your content with anyone else, wherever you want. To provide our services, though, we need you to give us some legal permissions to use that content.
> 
> Specifically, when you share, post, or upload content that is covered by intellectual property rights (like photos or videos) on or in connection with our Products, you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, and worldwide license to host, use, distribute, modify, run, copy, publicly perform or display, translate, and create derivative works of your content (consistent with your privacy and application settings). This means, for example, that if you share a photo on Facebook, you give us permission to store, copy, and share it with others (again, consistent with your settings) such as service providers that support our service or other Facebook Products you use.
> 
> You can end this license any time by deleting your content or account. You should know that, for technical reasons, content you delete may persist for a limited period of time in backup copies (though it will not be visible to other users). In addition, content you delete may continue to appear if you have shared it with others and they have not deleted it.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2018)

NogDog said:


> Not that it makes things any better/worse for anyone concerned about it, but if you look at the TOS/TOU agreements for any of the major web forums and such out there, I believe you'll find pretty much the same terms. I'm no lawyer, so don't know if it's to protect themselves as opposed to some nefarious plot to subvert copyright ownership. For instance, the Facebook TOS includes:


https://bardsandsages.com/**********/2018/09/19/verticalscopes-overreaching-tos/

I address that specifically in my summary of the situation. I also explained it in the larger thread, but it is lost in the 25+ pages.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

NogDog said:


> Not that it makes things any better/worse for anyone concerned about it, but if you look at the TOS/TOU agreements for any of the major web forums and such out there, I believe you'll find pretty much the same terms. I'm no lawyer, so don't know if it's to protect themselves as opposed to some nefarious plot to subvert copyright ownership. For instance, the Facebook TOS includes:


This IS a fair point . . . . .

Some feel that the VS TOS goes beyond that -- a step too far for many.

Many more weren't hugely bothered but wanted some input and assurance from the new ownership. That didn't happen. So more people became concerned at the lack of respectful response.

I think many see it as one more straw:

forum sold
vigilings showing up in posts (later stopped)
change in ad policy
more spam to the email address on record
unannounced change in TOS
no response for days
less than useful response posted
less than courteous response posted (calling members 'trolls'! )

and the final straw (for many)
not allowing moderators to delete accounts and mass delete posts if members request it. 

And, they've not yet fixed the reading bar. I've taken mine out of my signature as it's useless -- I've read 2 dozen books since then. Oh! I should put my GoodReads page there instead.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

For some time now I've mainly just been coming by here to check up on old (figuratively!) friends, so to speak, so admittedly have limited insight into the changes. I always have my ad-blocker running, and my attached email account is one I use for such things where I don't actually look at it much, so I don't even know if I've been getting spam. Ignorance truly is bliss, sometimes.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

One part of me holds out the small hope the reader community will re-engage and KB can return to its roots.  The other part of me says I don't want my words to be associated with, nor my recommendation links of everything from books to tea, to support a company who is unwilling to compromise on the very real concerns of the creatives who have dominated the boards in the last few years.

I'm also in the camp who thinks our email addresses have already been monetized since the change of ownership.  I've had more junk mail/spam in my account associated with this site in the last few weeks than I have had in the 9 1/2 years I've been here put together.  I also don't like the powers of our volunteer mods who have been here since the beginning being taken away when we were told none of that would change.  

I'm so torn between cutting ties completely and losing contact with people and a place that have been a huge part of my life for almost 10 years.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> And, they've not yet fixed the reading bar. I've taken mine out of my signature as it's useless -- I've read 2 dozen books since then. Oh! I should put my GoodReads page there instead.


I took mine out too. But I was trying to put one of the goodreads widgets in the siggy instead, but it won't let me. It just shows code. On goodreads it say something like if the board doesn't accept java script it won't work. I think it was java. That stuff is over my head. But I was going to put one of the book cover widgets in. No can do. I can't figure out a way to show off my read books. Odd that the authors signature seemed to work fine. But nothing for us readers. Always feel left out.


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## Max X (Feb 2, 2018)

I do not agree to the new 2018 TOS


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## gdae23 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks for making us aware of this. I'm not an author, so that aspect of it won't affect me personally, but it's sad to see these changes. I have noticed an increase in spam emails in the last 2 weeks or so, but I never made a connection to kboards. I actually thought it was my email provider purposely letting spam through so they could then try to sell me an anti-spam service. (Has happened before.) Since I don't use a unique email for kboards, I'm not sure how I would tell what's generating the spam.

For now, I plan to stick around and see what happens. I've seen other good sites fall apart; I hope that doesn't happen with kboards. I don't post that often, but I do look in almost every day, and always find something interesting and often helpful here. I hope a lot of you will wait out the changes too. I haven't met people on this thread in person, but I'm recognizing most of the user names and would miss seeing your posts if you decide to leave!


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Atunah said:


> A lot of what I read over the last few years has come from recommendations in threads right here. Lots of the tea I have drunk came from here. Well, not the tea, but the knowledge of that tea.
> Lots of my smiles have come from here. And on days when I felt really not so great, I came here.
> 
> We aren't just words on a screen. All those connections, even if they seem trivial to some, it adds up. For years. Its like a web of teeny strings and one realizes just how much one values those connections when its threatened.


So much tea.....and Instant Pots and Keurigs...... and book deals!


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Ah yes, I have one of those Insta Pots too. Because of Kboards. And mostly though because of crebel. She talked me into it when it was a deal. Was it black friday or prime, I can't remember. But its her fault.  

Don't have a Keurig. I went the other way. Tassimo in the past. Not anymore though. But it felt like when we had Video 2000, Betamax and VHS. I always go for the one that doesn't catch on.  .


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Atunah said:


> Ah yes, I have one of those Insta Pots too. Because of Kboards. And mostly though because of crebel. She talked me into it when it was a deal. Was it black friday or prime, I can't remember. But its her fault.
> 
> Don't have a Keurig. I went the other way. Tassimo in the past. Not anymore though. But it felt like when we had Video 2000, Betamax and VHS. I always go for the one that doesn't catch on. .


Lol....wasn't it Harvey that was the Zune fan?


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Chad Winters said:


> Lol....wasn't it Harvey that was the Zune fan?


yes, I think so. Although I am not sure still what that is. . But then I never had a music player thingie like that. That is what it was, right? I a music player, like a ipod is, just not an apple thingie.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Atunah said:


> yes, I think so. Although I am not sure still what that is. . But then I never had a music player thingie like that. That is what it was, right? I a music player, like a ipod is, just not an apple thingie.


Yes it was the Microsoft competitor to the iPod that went the way of the Betamax or the HD DVD


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Chad Winters said:


> Yes it was the Microsoft competitor to the iPod that went the way of the Betamax or the HD DVD


Ha yes Betamax. My uncle had betamax, my brother put his bet on Video 2000. Don't think that was a thing in the english speaking world though. Course neither won that one in the end.  HD DVD, not sure what that is. Is that just regular DVD's as suppose to blue ray? I had one of those video dvd players long time ago. Movies came on huge disks that looked like LP's. Someone gave that to me and 2 movies. That is all I ever was able to get on it.

Seems like kindle technology seems pretty simple compared to all that. I hope at least it stays around as long as I live. Can't read on tablets.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Atunah said:


> Ha yes Betamax. My uncle had betamax, my brother put his bet on Video 2000. Don't think that was a thing in the english speaking world though. Course neither won that one in the end.  HD DVD, not sure what that is. Is that just regular DVD's as suppose to blue ray? I had one of those video dvd players long time ago. Movies came on huge disks that looked like LP's. Someone gave that to me and 2 movies. That is all I ever was able to get on it.
> 
> Seems like kindle technology seems pretty simple compared to all that. I hope at least it stays around as long as I live. Can't read on tablets.


HD DVD was the BluRay competitor
yeah I worry about Amazon giving up on eInk


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## Sandpiper (Oct 28, 2008)

As I said above -- I'm not techie.  Is it because of new board ownership that lately I've been getting an extreme amount of spam?  I've never seen that much before.  There's gotta be a reason.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't noticed any more spam as usual. Its at the same volume, but it seems more spicy than before.


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## 1131 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sandpiper said:


> As I said above -- I'm not techie. Is it because of new board ownership that lately I've been getting an extreme amount of spam? I've never seen that much before. There's gotta be a reason.


.


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## MarilynVix (Jun 19, 2013)

I asked for a Kindle for Christmas, because of this board back in 2011. I have since seen my amount of reading go way up. I read most of my books on my Kindle now, with maybe 70% ebook and 30% paperback. I've been proud to be part of the ebook revolution, and just shake my head when I can't convince my friends to switch to ebooks. 

I have already switched to a new forum, but will check back in from time to time since old habits are hard to break. But like others have said, all the info has already been sold. I don't even answer my phone anymore because of how many robocalls I get a day. I just screen now. 

Hopefully, there will be something of kboards left when the dust clears from the implosion. But I don't think it will be the same. 
Atunah, I always appreciated your comments when they appeared in the threads. Please don't feel all the "Writers" don't appreciate readers. I always loved hearing a reader's perspective keeping in mind that writers read too. I will happily debate Anne Rice vs. Stephanie Meyers any day. But I know what you mean about things getting heated sometimes in the Cafe. I got scathed sometimes in threads.

But I don't think it will be a problem anymore. So many writers have jumped ship and started to scatter to the four winds to other forums and boards that this might just become a readers haven in the end. Good luck if it does. I'll miss the interactions. 

It's just a very sad time right now. I've been here since 2009. Almost 10 years of my life destroyed in a mere few days. Just so sad.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Chad Winters said:


> Lol....wasn't it Harvey that was the Zune fan?


Before KBoards Harvey had started Zune Boards. It was . . . . less successful.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Before KBoards Harvey had started Zune Boards. It was . . . . less successful.


That's hilarious I forgot about Zune Boards. I remember the great influx from Amazon forums to Kboards in 2008 and Harvey couldn't access the site to set stuff up for quite awhile.


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Atunah said:


> Ah yes, I have one of those Insta Pots too. Because of Kboards. And mostly though because of crebel. She talked me into it when it was a deal. Was it black friday or prime, I can't remember. But its her fault.
> 
> Don't have a Keurig. I went the other way. Tassimo in the past. Not anymore though. But it felt like when we had Video 2000, Betamax and VHS. I always go for the one that doesn't catch on. .


I plead the Fifth ...


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Chad Winters said:


> That's hilarious I forgot about Zune Boards. I remember the great influx from Amazon forums to Kboards in 2008 and Harvey couldn't access the site to set stuff up for quite awhile.


Actually, I think he was on vacation when the migration started . . . . and he didn't realize KindleBoards had taken off. Finally Leslie -- who'd first found the site and dropped the breadcrumbs, got hold of him somehow and let him know what was going on!


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

It may be my imagination, but I think I remember that Harvey had written an Idiot’s Guide or something similar about the Zune?

I’m lucky in a way, I usually stay with an obsolete media technology so long that the winning tech is clear by the time I switch. That obviously hasn’t happened with electronic gadgets.

I knew something was wrong on the site when I looked in the iThings Forum and nobody had said a word about the new iPhone!

Whatever else happens with the site, I appreciate the work of our moderators over many years!


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Incidentally, I’m not getting additional spam in recent weeks. I hadn’t noticed any increase, and I just went back and looked, and am not seeing anything. Maybe the content of my posts here gave the spamming algorithm a nervous breakdown!


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I've not noticed any change in amount or type of spam either.

I did remove some information from my profile/signature. But the main reason for the change in the signature is that the Reader page/reader bar is broken and no one seems inclined to fix it.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> I've not noticed any change in amount or type of spam either.
> 
> I did remove some information from my profile/signature. But the main reason for the change in the signature is that the Reader page/reader bar is broken and no one seems inclined to fix it.


Yeah, I took mine off too. I just put a link to my goodreads there where books I read are listed. Not the same of course. I miss the covers.

I have not received any additional spam since the new owners. Lately I been getting less spam. Only about 10 a day in my spam folder the last couple of weeks. And some of those aren't actually spam, but newsletters I signed up for. I think it starts putting them in spam if I don't open then for too long. No idea.

I have way more issues with spam on my home phone, even though we are signed up on do not call. I get medicare, roofing, AC, owe the IRS go to jail, fake police organisations, etc. Ugh.


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## CegAbq (Mar 17, 2009)

NogDog said:


> For some time now I've mainly just been coming by here to check up on old (figuratively!) friends, so to speak, so admittedly have limited insight into the changes. I always have my ad-blocker running, and my attached email account is one I use for such things where I don't actually look at it much, so I don't even know if I've been getting spam. Ignorance truly is bliss, sometimes.


I had my adblocker turned off for this site before the changeover - but I've turned it back on. And I too use an email address that I almost never check.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I just want you all to know that not only did I visit Harvey's Zune site but I have a first generation Zune and still use it.  I always liked it better than the iPod.


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## CegAbq (Mar 17, 2009)

geoffthomas said:


> I just want you all to know that not only did I visit Harvey's Zune site but I have a first generation Zune and still use it. I always liked it better than the iPod.


Always wanted a Zune; never had any iThingy


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Actually, I think he was on vacation when the migration started . . . . and he didn't realize KindleBoards had taken off. Finally Leslie -- who'd first found the site and dropped the breadcrumbs, got hold of him somehow and let him know what was going on!


Yes, that's what happened.

Just stopping by for the first time in a long time...but I think of Kboards every single day.

L


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

Leslie said:


> Yes, that's what happened.
> 
> Just stopping by for the first time in a long time...but I think of Kboards every single day.
> 
> L


*Jumps up and down waving!!!* So good to hear from you. Miss you around here!


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## loonlover (Jul 4, 2009)

Leslie said:


> Yes, that's what happened.
> 
> Just stopping by for the first time in a long time...but I think of Kboards every single day.
> 
> L


Hey, Leslie, so good to hear from you.


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