# List Mania



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Another Reviewer posted about "Listmania" on Amazon as a way to 'keep up' with my reviews, so I created a bunch of new lists.

I was curious to know: Does Amazon notify you authors when your book gets added to a list?  

Do you think having your books on these lists helps sales at all?  If so, just a little or significantly?


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Hiya, Red!


RedAdept said:


> Another Reviewer posted about "Listmania" on Amazon as a way to 'keep up' with my reviews, so I created a bunch of new lists.
> 
> I was curious to know: Does Amazon notify you authors when your book gets added to a list?
> 
> Do you think having your books on these lists helps sales at all? If so, just a little or significantly?


To answer your first question: No, Amazon doesn't notify us.
Second question: I honestly don't know whether lists help sales, but I have seen desperate authors create twenty 'lists' with their books on them. What those folks don't seem to get is that picking three best-sellers and adding theirs to them in the form of a list is likely to be ineffective. It will get their book cover in the public eye a little more, though.

I view lists in the same manner as reviews. They are intended to be helpful to potential readers, and if a list is put forth by a respected, objective reviewer I'll pay attention. But there are a few requirements for 'legitimacy' IMO. No book should be put on a list unless the list-maker has read it (I've seen this especially with indie books, friends helping friends, and so on. It's a nice gesture, but it damages credibility). If an author chooses to make a list and place his/her book on it, that's ok as long as the book is thus identified. Sock puppetry also applies to lists.

Again, being on legitimate lists certainly can't hurt (unless it's the 'Ten Most Worthless Fantasy Books' list). I doubt the impact is major, probably minor, but I'm just guessing there. If a particular list is especially helpful, vote for it. That will assist readers in finding the best lists.

--Archer


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

I think I've looked at 'listmania' lists maybe twice.  Both times I found the books in the list didn't appeal to me, even though the list I was looking at contained a book I'd been considering or had read.  And one time I looked at a list to verify the order of a book series.  But now I go to fantastic fiction for that info.

In short, I don't really pay any attention to Amazon reader lists.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Without a doubt, I consider myself to be the Listmania king (or at least I used to be). During my brief tenure on Amazon, I spent more time creating (and perfecting) Listmania lists than any other author I know and was very, very--very effective at selling the books that I featured on my lists (Just ask the authors whose books were on my lists). 

With that said, I have one warning for every author who is thinking about creating a Listmania list. Most authors, unfortunately, do not know this, but Amazon does not condone authors creating Listmania lists which feature their books on it. According to Amazon, it is a direct violation of their guidelines. It is true that countless authors use Listmania lists to showcase their books. Chances are you will not be punished by Amazon for using Listmanias in this way. But if Amazon ever discovers that you have your book on a Listmania list, your career could literally be over within minutes. Just my 2 cents...


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## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

archer said:


> Again, being on legitimate lists certainly can't hurt (unless it's the 'Ten Most Worthless Fantasy Books' list). I doubt the impact is major, probably minor, but I'm just guessing there. If a particular list is especially helpful, vote for it. That will assist readers in finding the best lists.
> 
> --Archer


My lists are partially for my own use. If you have looked at them, you will know that they are done by review stars. When I made them, it put the last one made at the top of the list.

Well, I had one that was for books I had given 1 to 2 stars. It was the last one made, so it showed first on my list of lists. Boy, that looked bad! LOL I didn't make it to hurt anyone, like I said, it was for my own use. But, then, I realized that it might be taken in the wrong way and cause more 'stalking', so I deleted that one. 

I have noticed that people are a lot less likely to 'vote' on lists than on actual reviews. I think this is because the voting buttons are just not readily apparant.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Kevis: 

If that's true (which I'm sure it is, as you always have your finger on the pulse of truth-in-Zonning), there are a couple of authors in for a nasssty turn of events very soon! 

Trouble is, its the honest authors who get nailed.  The sock puppeteers seem to escape unscathed somehow. 

O Mighty List-king! O Tabulator of Tomes! I Salute Thee! 

(Yes, dear friend, your lists WERE effective! They always had my books on them--to my gratitude. They got lots of helpful votes, and I miss them. But, lists like yours don't come around every day.)


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

archer said:


> Kevis:
> 
> If that's true (which I'm sure it is, as you always have your finger on the pulse of truth-in-Zonning), there are a couple of authors in for a nasssty turn of events very soon!
> 
> ...


Archer,

I am of the breed that believes that we are all part of the same gang. 'One for all and all for one' is my motto. I loved creating Listmania lists because not only did I get to showcase my book, but I got to help other authors at the same time. We don't have the marketing power of the trads, so it only made sense to me to band together to get our work noticed. However, Amazon has a completely different opinion on this matter. Without getting into the shameful details, Amazon will amputate an author's book from their site faster than you can say "go" if they discover that you are using their Listmania site to get across your agenda.

I find it strange that a company who is in the business of making money would take this approach, especially since they don't seem to care about the trolls that regularly rampage their site without impunity. As Red Adept said, if you mention the word "breasts" in your review, it might not be posted. But if you slander an author and run it through the mud for no good reason, you can do so without so much as a slap on the wrist.

All I can say is that authors need to be careful when promoting their books on Amazon. If you can get away with something then my admonishment doesn't matter. But if you get caught, there is going to be true hell to pay.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Ah, Kevis...(sigh)...how right you are. Though your lists did promote your books, they also promoted everyone else's, and were therefore well-intentioned. Unfortunately, it's the ones who ONLY have their own interests in mind who ruin things for the rest of us. I noticed an author who posted a dozen lists on the same day, all featuring her books in sort of random assortment with a few best-sellers. I mean...how transparent can you GET? What she did helps no one but herself, and it won't help her. No one will pay attention to such lists--they are completely suspect.

Oh, look!  Here's a list of the best blah-blah for blah-blahs. Hmmm...five items. One best-selling romance, two best-selling high fantasy, one self-published book with an overall rating of 2.5 stars, and a best selling PNR. Hmmm.... 

That, to get back to Red's original query, is NOT helpful to anyone!


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Archer,

Is it just me or does it seem like the shameful has far more than 9 lives? But the ones who have any sort of tact and goodwill are the ones who gets punished? Maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe it is better to use the dark side of the force...


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

But would you feel better about yourself in the morning if you did, Kevis?   Take the high road and play by the rules. In the short run, the trolls and puppets may seem to get away with things, but in the long run, people see through them and reject them, and see people like you and others here with integrity for how they are and reward them. Well, as best as we can, anyway. LOL

As for Red's question, like Ann, I rarely even look at lists so I'm afraid from a reader standpoint, I'm not much help to authors when lists are created.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Steph H said:


> But would you feel better about yourself in the morning if you did, Kevis?  Take the high road and play by the rules. In the short run, the trolls and puppets may seem to get away with things, but in the long run, people see through them and reject them, and see people like you and others here with integrity for how they are and reward them.


I hear you loud and clear, Steph.  It bewilders me to think how some people can sleep after engaging in some of the questionable practices that they do.


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

No one has ever notified me when one of my books was on somebody's list.  I'm not sure how you would even go about finding out even if you wanted to know.  I've occasionally come across a list that contained one of my books and that's always a pleasant surprise and very encouraging, but I don't go seeking them out.

The only listmania I've ever composed myself so far was a list of books that are useful for people who want to write Christian fantasy.  And no, it didn't include any of my own work. lol

I didn't know it was against the Amazon rules to put your own work on lists, but I always thought people would ignore that kind of blatant self-promotion anyway.  I would, if I were the reader involved.  Besides that, it's tacky.


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## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Hey Kevis and Archer, 
    First of all, thanks for the heads up; it's good to know that if I ever considered Listmanianizing my book, it might not be the best idea.  I've used Listmania several times to find new reads, but I don't think I ever could ever us it to list my book with a bunch of bestsellers.  First of all, it's dishonest, and secondly, the cold hard truth is that my book simply isn't a bestseller.  Perhaps someday it will be, perhaps not, but it hasn't earned that honor yet.  In order to be considered a bestseller, a book must be bought by lots of people: my personal love for my story in no way reflects it's status in the publishing world (as much as I wish it could ).  I would, however, someday like to start a Listmania list with all of my favorite indie books and authors on it.  Since I have a few I'm working on reading right now, maybe that can be my next goal . . . until then, I'll keep my eyes peeled for such lists already in existence.  Thanks again for all the input!
-Jenna


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

Hey, Jenna!

Mr. William (The Blue): SOON I will have sold enough books to afford a used Kindle I!
I will review your book one of these fine days.   (Unless, of course, you'd rather I didn't...I liked the writing sample you provided.)


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

archer said:


> Hey, Jenna!
> 
> Mr. William (The Blue): SOON I will have sold enough books to afford a used Kindle I!
> I will review your book one of these fine days.  (Unless, of course, you'd rather I didn't...I liked the writing sample you provided.)


lol I'd be glad to have you review my work, Archer, and I'm glad you enjoyed the sample. I give out full copies from time to time when people express interest (either PDF or TXT, whichever is preferred), so if you ever want one just give me a holler.


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

I will!  I've got...lemme see...one, two...four books on my 'to be reviewed' list.  After that, I'll be a-callin'!


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## William Woodall (Jun 8, 2009)

Okie dokie.


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