# Calling epic fantasy & historical authors w/ stock art issues



## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

As part of a conversation we had here a few months ago, I've been in discussion with my LARP team, who have more weapons and armour and body sizes and genders than the Battle of Hastings. They want to organize photo shoots to assist the indie and small press world who cannot afford artwork with some affordable stock images.

How best do we do this? Ideas?

Also, what is missing the most? (and, yes, I know, CLOTHED WOMEN).

Here is an example of a couple of our "ad shots" used in our LARP advertisements and posters. These weren't taken for stock art (for bigger views, click here.




























Is this something we need folks? Thoughts on pricing, poses, and how best to get stuff out? Any setting requests?

Photography by Argent Dawn Photography, please do not use, take, steal, distribute, etc.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

Ladies in armor are good, but I'd want to know it's a woman....

So to compromise, I'd say women with long flowing hair, wearing mail, carrying a big effing sword.  

I'd love to see hooded women with big swords, or lethal daggers. 

Profile shots, back shots, shots that obscure the face, but show the womanly form and the big effing sword.   Oh and archers....we need women with bows....


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Vivi_Anna said:


> Ladies in armor are good, but I'd want to know it's a woman....
> 
> So to compromise, I'd say women with long flowing hair, wearing mail, carrying a big effing sword.


So you don't want realistic stock art, then? Cause we got lots of ultra thin model types in our group, too. We can give them swords they can barely hold over their heads 



> I'd love to see hooded women with big swords, or lethal daggers.
> 
> Profile shots, back shots, shots that obscure the face, but show the womanly form and the big effing sword.  Oh and archers....we need women with bows....


Our bows are dodgy, so that's a good idea for use to look into. We'll need to find some spray paint to cover up the neon markers


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Vivi_Anna said:


> Ladies in armor are good, but I'd want to know it's a woman....
> 
> So to compromise, I'd say women with long flowing hair, wearing mail, carrying a big effing sword.
> 
> ...


Big effing swords are not usually REALISTIC swords.

I want them to carry swords they look like they might USE. And who they *couhg* would have their hair flowing in the middle of a fight? Yes, I want to be able to tell it's a woman but there is already plenty of_ schlock photos_ out there with women who look stupid with fake looking armor and weapons they couldn't use in a million years.

For my novels, I want women who actually look like they have weapons that a human being could use and wearing armor that would keep them alive.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

And that's what we're dealing with. The weapons they are using in those shots are the ones they use for weapon-long battles. That's why Dave's is twice as long as Lori's; he's about twice as tall as her 

I, for example, cannot fight with a shield. I have to right now, since I don't have the skill points to purchase training in 2 handed (ha!), but I'm not strong enough to cart around a giant shield. I'm much faster if I use the left-hand sword as a shield, actually - and, it's light enough that I can run away 

JR - our rants about this inspired us to see what we can to help. We're looking to make just a small amount of money, nothing big. It's a fundraiser for us, as opposed to a moneymaker. We are geared to the hilts (ha!) in all kinds of stuff. What do you think is missing?


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

The one thing I think I'll need in the not too distant future is someone who is the eldest son of a poor farmer. I don't really think that would get LARPed often but maybe some of the clothes that go under the armor might work.

Also a relatively young woman who looks hard a hard boiled mercenary in relatively cheap armor, presumably leather, with realistic weapons, maybe a stiff cudgel and a short bladed weapon. It's hard to make a living as a merchant's guard when you're a woman. And I can't for the life of me, imagine how long hair is anything but a detriment in a combat situation.


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## Seanathin23 (Jul 24, 2011)

People fighting, people in cool armor looking stoic. Maybe put a few of them in front of a green/blue screen so that a more fantastic backdrop can be keyed in. 

I can't speak to pricing because I don't know what stock images typically go for, but I could see some fantasy writers jumpping on this. Also for a little more you could offer custom pictures where the buyer says I'm looking for blank, if black isn't in your stock library.


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## AdriannaWhite (Jul 30, 2011)

They make LADY armour?

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6550847/female-armor-sucks


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Well men sometimes wore long hair too but you didn't have it flying around in battle, getting in your face AND getting grabbed by someone. Not even.

I'm willing to compromise and have the armor somewhat more shape revealing that is realistic. We are selling novels after all. But only so far.

I agree with the shield. Actually, shields were usually used and it was movies like Braveheart that convinced writers that everyone used two handed swords. Well, they didn't and they weren't even necessarily effective. (On this subject Song of Ice and Fire isn't any better. I am disappointed in the very unrealistic armor and weapons Martin puts in his novels)

I admit that there are times when you have to go with a popular perception instead of fighting it. However, I'll only go so far in that. One of the things almost all my fighters (historical or fantasy) do is carry a shield. Someone is trying to stick you with a very sharp, pointy object, you want a shield. 

In a medieval setting, leather armor for a mercenary wouldn't be particularly believable. They wouldn't live long if everyone else is wearing metal armor. For peasants, yes. A mercenary would have to find some way of finding something that would keep them alive.

Krista, you know what a pet peeve this whole thing is with me.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

(Did I saw 2 handed? Sorry, meant duel weld   )


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Gregory Lynn said:


> The one thing I think I'll need in the not too distant future is someone who is the eldest son of a poor farmer. I don't really think that would get LARPed often but maybe some of the clothes that go under the armor might work.


Oh, we have plenty of slaves, servants, farmers, and merchants 



> Also a relatively young woman who looks hard a hard boiled mercenary in relatively cheap armor, presumably leather, with realistic weapons, maybe a stiff cudgel and a short bladed weapon. It's hard to make a living as a merchant's guard when you're a woman. And I can't for the life of me, imagine how long hair is anything but a detriment in a combat situation.


Thanks! I've made note.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Seanathin23 said:


> People fighting, people in cool armor looking stoic. Maybe put a few of them in front of a green/blue screen so that a more fantastic backdrop can be keyed in.


Good idea. We can do some studio ones and outdoor ones.



> I can't speak to pricing because I don't know what stock images typically go for, but I could see some fantasy writers jumpping on this. Also for a little more you could offer custom pictures where the buyer says I'm looking for blank, if black isn't in your stock library.


It's a good thing to consider for the future. Thanks!


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

I have no idea if it's possible, but some POV stuff would be cool. I've fallen and I'm about to be stabbed/hacked/murdalized... I'm shooting a bow... I'm looking down my sword at my opponent, etc.

Note: I don't currently write historical fiction or fantasy.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> I'm willing to compromise and have the armor somewhat more shape revealing that is realistic.


To be honest, we don't have any outfits that are that revealing unless you're talking about our assassins. They are all leather-clad waifs 



> One of the things almost all my fighters (historical or fantasy) do is carry a shield. Someone is trying to stick you with a very sharp, pointy object, you want a shield.


We have lots of shields, but none are the same. We wouldn't be able to do sexy shield wall poses.



> In a medieval setting, leather armor for a mercenary wouldn't be particularly believable. They wouldn't live long if everyone else is wearing metal armor. For peasants, yes. A mercenary would have to find some way of finding something that would keep them alive.


We have leather, plate, mail...often people were a combination.

I know we aren't going to have perfect accuracy here (we're a LARP group, after all), but I think the photos above are already more accurate than a lot of what's out there...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Monique said:


> I have no idea if it's possible, but some POV stuff would be cool. I've fallen and I'm about to be stabbed/hacked/murdalized... I'm shooting a bow... I'm looking down my sword at my opponent, etc.


We have lots of these! Cool, that's good to know...


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Oh, we have plenty of slaves, servants, farmers, and merchants


Excellent![/Montyburns]

One thing I would kind of like to have at some point but have no particular piece in mind for is the guys who would be vendors at medieval tournaments and such.

I mean, someone's got to be selling funnel cakes, flagons of mead, and tiny souvenir flags with the sigils of various noble houses on them, right?


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> In a medieval setting, leather armor for a mercenary wouldn't be particularly believable. They wouldn't live long if everyone else is wearing metal armor. For peasants, yes. A mercenary would have to find some way of finding something that would keep them alive.


I wasn't thinking a soldier of fortune but a merchant's guard without a steady job.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Honestly, I had a lot of trouble finding women who weren't wearing something akin to a chainmail bikini or a platekini. I'd love to see some Joan-Of-Arc style "real armour" pictures.

Edit: On a side note, why would anyone ever wear "armour" that had massive steel shoulder-plates, but have a bare midriff...? Or have very prominent shape-fitted "breast-plate", which outlines the mammaries and so just happens to deflect incoming blows _directly into the heart?_


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

All kinds of variety would be great. Heck you could even do a few with long flowing hair for the long flowing hair groupies.


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

More women in period costumes doing something besides sitting. Running, walking through the woods, riding, with and without a guy in armor. I write about couples and I don't necessarily want the woman to have a sword, but I like having her do something active.

This was a great series of shots from I-stock: http://www.istockphoto.com/search/lightbox/11695589/#17500aeb and http://www.istockphoto.com/search/lightbox/10201178/#16caeec3

And I'm like--MORE! Please more!


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Gregory Lynn said:


> I wasn't thinking a soldier of fortune but a merchant's guard without a steady job.


If you're just looking for a poor thug, you could get away with boiled leather and padding. It's not going to stop a sword through the guts, but it's going to protect against the more normal, mundane brawls. It wasn't like everyone in the market could afford a sword anyway


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Sarah Woodbury said:


> More women in period costumes doing something besides sitting. Running, walking through the woods, riding, with and without a guy in armor. I write about couples and I don't necessarily want the woman to have a sword, but I like having her do something active.


Ok, good point. (we have no horses  )

We can do running in the woods, though


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## Incognita (Apr 3, 2011)

Sarah Woodbury said:


> More women in period costumes doing something besides sitting. Running, walking through the woods, riding, with and without a guy in armor. I write about couples and I don't necessarily want the woman to have a sword, but I like having her do something active.
> 
> This was a great series of shots from I-stock: http://www.istockphoto.com/search/lightbox/11695589/#17500aeb and http://www.istockphoto.com/search/lightbox/10201178/#16caeec3
> 
> And I'm like--MORE! Please more!


Oh, God, this, please, this! My heroines aren't sword-wielding kick-rear types, but some accurate period clothing would be stellar. And an attractive couple in period clothing would be even better.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Our women's clothing is uber accurate because women still need to fight in it. We are LARPers  Even the female mages in their robes occasionally have prices put on their heads and have to run 

I'll add to the list, though. 

Just an FYI. This is still going to take us months to organize, but we're just trying to wrap our heads around how best to help the community, while running a fundraiser for ourselves. 'Cause the money raised will totally go to buying more stuff


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> If you're just looking for a poor thug, you could get away with boiled leather and padding. It's not going to stop a sword through the guts, but it's going to protect against the more normal, mundane brawls. It wasn't like everyone in the market could afford a sword anyway


I see her as a young woman who is just not interested in any of the traditional roles available for women. She's not upper class so if she's going to eat she needs to work and everything she tries she hates until she gets into a fight in a bar and knocks the stuffing out of someone. Hijinks ensue and next thing you know she's hired on as a merchant's guard. It's boring as hell a lot but she sees new places, meets new people, and is living her own life on her own terms and that's what she wants.

She's not going to have a lot of money at first but as things progress and she gets a reputation she makes more money. I'd love to be able to write a scene where she pauses by a clothier to take a look at the nice dresses with their fluffs and lace and stuff while she's on her way to pick up her new chain mail. I think that scene is who she is and I'd love to get her to the point where I could write it.


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## LucyFrancis (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh, good mage photos would be awesome! All of these suggestions are great, and Krista, I can foresee legions of authors bowing at your blessed feet for putting this together. The day will come when I'll need some kickass women in actual armor and realistic weapons, so I'll definitely be following this project's progress.


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## Seanathin23 (Jul 24, 2011)

LucyFrancis said:


> Oh, good mage photos would be awesome! All of these suggestions are great, and Krista, I can foresee legions of authors bowing at your blessed feet for putting this together. The day will come when I'll need some kickass women in actual armor and realistic weapons, so I'll definitely be following this project's progress.


Defintly need some good mages.


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

Posting here because I need to save this for future reference.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok thanks everyone.

In terms of the photos I posted (which weren't meant for covers), do those...style? type? work?

(in case those are too small, here's the Flickr account - http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7022791531/in/photostream ... ignore the Yule dinner photos  )


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## BrianKittrell (Jan 8, 2011)

I think they're good, but I think you should make sure the shots for book cover art be made with respect to the octavo form (the "regular book shape"). Some of them are wide shots which would take some work to manipulate for a cover.

(Not that you don't know that. Sometimes I'm guilty of restating the obvious.)


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

BrianKittrell said:


> I think they're good, but I think you should make sure the shots for book cover art be made with respect to the octavo form (the "regular book shape"). Some of them are wide shots which would take some work to manipulate for a cover.
> 
> (Not that you don't know that. Sometimes I'm guilty of restating the obvious.)


Agreed. These were for our promotion posters


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Let me rephrase the question: we're all...normal looking. Is that a problem?


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I think this is a great idea! I agree that more shots that aren't horizontal/wide would be good.  Also, while authenticity is good, covers images have to be distinct and eye-catching, so I'd err in picking angles and poses that are active and attractive over 100% realistic.

I totally look forward to what you come up with.  And please with the archers. Finding pictures of someone who is holding a bow in any reasonable way is really tough.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

We have plenty of archers. It's just, since we use them to actually HIT each other, we use children's bow meant to only go 50-100 feet, and use padding tops. That way, they smart when slapping into your rear end when it's cold, but they don't require surgery 

However, we might be able to rig a few up...I'll ask about that.

Same with our crossbows. 

That one might take longer, because it would be for the pictures as opposed to for us to play with


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Let me rephrase the question: we're all...normal looking. Is that a problem?


Expletive deleted no!

For me, stories are, first and foremost, about people and one of the great joys of speculative fiction is putting people in situations that people can't currently be put in. Whether they're a paranoid android, a bug eyed monster, or Grendel's mother, they are people.

And let me ask you this, which face is more interesting, the one that is used as a canvas to hawk eyeliner and super ultra gloss lipstick or the one with crags to tell a story?

I speak only for myself, of course, but I'm going to want primarily faces and hands, the things that either tell a story or at least smack you upside the head and tell you that they have a story to tell.

I would imagine that most of you are fairly young, but if you've got some oldsters I think it would be an excellent thing.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Let me rephrase the question: we're all...normal looking. Is that a problem?


Not for me! Especially I don't mind skipping "medieval" women with tons of makeup and manicured talons. 

Women in a variety of ages would be nice from late teens through 60s would be great. A variety of appearances is nice too.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Gregory Lynn said:


> I would imagine that most of you are fairly young, but if you've got some oldsters I think it would be an excellent thing.


I'd say our average age is mid 30s. At that stage, folks can usually afford the gear. LARPing ain't a young man's hobby! (or an author's...I rarely can play  )


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## 41352 (Apr 4, 2011)

Close ups. Frightened eyes behind clashing swords, snarling mouths while pressing against the opponent...

Just a thought.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh yes! Modern women with weapons where it looks like she's about to stab herself in the chest. Yes...those are very common.

We, err, how do I put this? Don't have a lot of...err...thinner ladies who can pull off the urban fantasy "look." It's one thing when you're bundled in mail. It's other when you're in faux leather leotards


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Women in historical costume are always handy but what I find I'm seriously short of when it comes to stock art is _men_!

I'd love available pics of a decent variety of guys who look as if they have a brain and a personality (which LARPers probably will!) while still being young enough for a romantic lead (say, up to early forties) - Stock images of men in general either seem to be guys in their fifties or buff, pretty boys*.

For armour shots it would be good to have a variety of ready for combat, helmet on shots mixed with relaxing, helmet off ones.

I'd second the plea for regular clothing shots (historical and contemporary) as well as armour!

Should you have any jesters/fools in your LARP group, it's really hard to find stock art anywhere of a historical jester. It will probably be too late for me by the time you have the pics but it's a gap in the market that isn't currently being filled!

I've seen pics from LARP events that I'd love to use but can't because they are editorial only & don't have model releases. This idea of yours sounds great! 

* Edited to add that yes, I know that buff, pretty boys can have brains and personalities as well but they don't tend to have the right 'look' - you wouldn't cast one as Aragorn, Snape or Darcy.


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## JuliaHarwell (Feb 19, 2012)

Krista, this sounds amazing. I would love to see what you guys come up with in a few months.


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## Scarlett_R (Sep 30, 2011)

I think the collection you're gathering is awesome, an amazing resource! 

One thing I would suggest which is something I personally struggle with is just your standard  standing photos. Your models from front on, side on, semi-side etc. Not in action, just standing.


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## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> Actually, shields were usually used and it was movies like Braveheart that convinced writers that everyone used two handed swords. Well, they didn't and they weren't even necessarily effective.


Wasn't Scotland kind of in a unique spot though? If CW says the Brits had more heavy cavalry, and heavier armor, wouldn't they want to counter that with bigger weapons? As a herding society fighting an agricultural one, they could rely on their infantry being somewhat better than England's peasant fyrds. Sure there were risks, but England was richer, so they were going to have to take some chances somewhere.



JRTomlin said:


> I admit that there are times when you have to go with a popular perception instead of fighting it. However, I'll only go so far in that. One of the things almost all my fighters (historical or fantasy) do is carry a shield. Someone is trying to stick you with a very sharp, pointy object, you want a shield.


I'll bet there's some archaeological evidence somewhere that warriors with shields lived longer.

Even if there isn't, look at how popular shields were and how long they lasted. (Actually, they still survive today as riot gear.) I can't think of a single culture that didn't use them.

It's easy for us gamers to be enthusiastic about certain weapons or fighting styles because they look exotic, like flying guillotines or spiked chains.

Historically, the reason most exotic weapons didn't catch on is isn't that they were jealously guarded secrets. It's that they didn't work.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2012)

Krista, I don't know about the fiction writers around here, but I can tell you that the boys and girls in the RPG community would probably fall in love with a collection of stock images like this.  If you haven't already, you should talk to someone at RPGNOW.com about setting up a publisher account and selling stock art.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2012)

John Blackport said:


> It's easy for us gamers to be enthusiastic about certain weapons or fighting styles because they look exotic, like flying guillotines or spiked chains.


The one thing that has always annoyed me about most game systems is that they don't account for the fact that many types of weapons and armor were not meant to co-exist in the same era. That a longsword always does 1d8 damage versus an opponent whether that opponent was wearing leather armor or full plate, for example. Not so much that exotic weapons were uneffective, but that they would be uneffective versus armor not used in their time period.


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

I can't see the pictures from work *pout* Marking it so I remember to check back later and have a look at them. I'm excited about the prospect though, sounds really interesting Krista.

I've been buried in stock photos for a week and I just can't find anything even close to what I want. I can definitely echo JR's sentiments about the heavily made-up, talon wielding "medieval" lasses. I'd also love some much less formal attire. It seems like everyone in the stock photos I'm looking at is done up for a formal banquet. Can I get some farmers, merchants, or serfs in everyday clothes? Anything other than a princess lounging around in her drawing room, please!


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Krista, I don't know about the fiction writers around here, but I can tell you that the boys and girls in the RPG community would probably fall in love with a collection of stock images like this. If you haven't already, you should talk to someone at RPGNOW.com about setting up a publisher account and selling stock art.


We haven't even gotten to that stage yet. (Once I was done with brainstorming the poses, etc).

I didn't even think about selling stock art at RPGNOW.com! *facepalm* Of course!


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Please hurry, I just spent an hour and a half looking through stock photos.

And...squat.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

tkkenyon said:


> If I may suggest, if you could put a lot of empty space around your subjects, that would allow people to crop to customize shots and/or use the space for titles and author's names, etc.


Thanks. Like I said, these were taken for our posters, not for stock art. I just wanted to show an example of our costuming.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Gregory Lynn said:


> Please hurry, I just spent an hour and a half looking through stock photos.
> 
> And...squat.


Sadly, we can't hurry  But, I will update as I have info, I promise.


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## Rex Jameson (Mar 8, 2011)

The armor, clothing and weaponry are probably going to be your best sellers. Honestly, if we need a pretty face, we can photoshop one in pretty easily.

Standing postures will be good. Exhausted postures would be good. Examples of that could include knees in the dirt, head on the hilt of a blade and taking a breather, or sitting on something (rock, haybale, etc.) and arms in between legs or propped against something. Walking toward the viewer is also useful (e.g. with Michael Sullivan's Orbit books). On a horse, riding away. Slumped over on a horse. Shouldering a wounded person (armored and unarmored).

For the historical romance and other types of historicals, stock art with short knives might be useful. Cloak and dagger types, but I don't mean they have to be cloaked--just that the image and postures convey that a game is afoot in the period. Knife behind back or being retrieved from the bosom of a woman in a nice Victorian dress kind of thing.

Night time shots should probably not be the norm. Photoshoppers can make a day shot darker, but making a night shot lighter can be a lot trickier because the darkness will lose a lot of detail.

That's all I can think of right now, but I'm glad you followed up on the thread where it was suggested. Sounds exciting.

P.S. Stay away from blurred motion as much as you can. We can make a sword blurry without much work using filters, though I would argue there are very few times when a cover would need the motion blur. Trying to unblur one though can take much more time and often requires complete replacement.


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## ETS PRESS (Nov 4, 2011)

Do you think you could round up some local teens for YA shots?


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## Archer (Apr 25, 2009)

It's too bad you don't live near me. All you really need for archery shots is a local bowyer who has stock on hand for photo-shoot. Then you need a model who knows how to draw a bow. I have everything from English longbows to ancient Holmgaardts to flatbows--even a really cool horse-bow, but I won't ship them. You also need arrows that do not have technicolor fletching, synthetic anythings, or, you know, Nerf points!

LARP bows are indeed dodgy.

As for horses...well, I've got them, too, but won't ship them, either!


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

ETS PRESS said:


> Do you think you could round up some local teens for YA shots?


That's another tricky one, since our LARP is a strict 18+ horror-fantasy. So if we include kids & teens, it'll have to be LARPer's children, since we don't really want to have to deal with all that confusion.

My youngest could do it, though his Beebs haircut would need covering up.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Archer said:


> It's too bad you don't live near me. All you really need for archery shots is a local bowyer who has stock on hand for photo-shoot. Then you need a model who knows how to draw a bow. I have everything from English longbows to ancient Holmgaardts to flatbows--even a really cool horse-bow, but I won't ship them. You also need arrows that do not have technicolor fletching, synthetic anythings, or, you know, Nerf points!
> 
> LARP bows are indeed dodgy.
> 
> As for horses...well, I've got them, too, but won't ship them, either!


 

Yes, the bows are really a challenge. The swords, mail, plate, and leather we have. So the bows might take some time.

A question for everyone. Can you tell if those weapons are real or not in my sample photos? Those aren't metal (again, it was our poster shots, so it was easier to fight with LARP weapons than, you know, daggers  ).


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Rex Jameson said:


> The armor, clothing and weaponry are probably going to be your best sellers.


Thankfully, we have those in abundance!

Thanks for your long list. Lots of great ideas!


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## lewaters (Jun 25, 2011)

Those are fantastic shots! I for one, love a cover that doesn't reveal faces. I like to imagine a character from the writer's descriptions and my own imagination, so I prefer covers that focus in on: a piece of clothing, weaponry, a battle between helmeted individuals, from the neck down, and even from behind. This is also more versatile for the writer since it can be used for many more characters.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks!

Oh, is there a need for elven stock art? We have lots of elf ears of all forms and colours.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

I wanted to bump to say that we're currently brainstorming out how the first run of photos should look and where to sell them that involves the least amount of work for all of us.

I was thinking RPGNOW.com and dreamstime. Would that be good enough?


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

Post your links once you are ready, and I'm sure we'll all spread them far and wide, wherever they are.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

The photographer who did the poster ones (first post) is on board to work for a lower cut while we get off the ground. I don't think we're going to make a fortune or anything, but I hope we can make enough to afford to pay the photographer for her time and to raise a little money for our LARP. The LARPers themselves are interested in helping. Obviously we won't have 100s of photos at once, but we are going to try to do it in sets of 12 or so. We'll need to figure out how to set up the accounts to sell, but after that we should be good.

We're all digging our weapons (both real and fake) out out storage to see what we have 

As a side note, archery will be our biggest challenge. For those looking for archery, those won't be in the first round that's for sure...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

jnfr said:


> Post your links once you are ready, and I'm sure we'll all spread them far and wide, wherever they are.


And thanks. We're not looking to make money off this, just raise cash for our habit


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> And thanks. We're not looking to make money off this, just raise cash for our habit


That's all anyone ever does. Raise cash for the eating habit. Raise cash for the not-living-in-a-van-down-by-the-river habit.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Well, ours is more like raise enough money to buy duct tape, fabric, and wooden sticks....


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Well, ours is more like raise enough money to buy duct tape, fabric, and wooden sticks....


And to think I almost mentioned my keep-sorority-girls-in-the-basement habit.

Sigh...


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

Krista D. Ball said:


> I wanted to bump to say that we're currently brainstorming out how the first run of photos should look and where to sell them that involves the least amount of work for all of us.
> 
> I was thinking RPGNOW.com and dreamstime. Would that be good enough?


Dreamstime is a great place. I usually go there first when I'm looking for images. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

I think tagging will be the biggest factor that determines if people find your photos when they need them. Make sure you use keywords for the weapons, poses and expressions. "Woman running through the forest with a sword about to kick some ass" or some such would be great.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Quick update: we're all set. There is a LARP event going on right now, so after the event & when everyone gets some sleep*, they are going to book a studio date for the first dozen.






*everyone not me, since I haven't been able to LARP since last summer


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

That is excellent!  I hope you all have fun with this too!


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Is this something we need folks? Thoughts on pricing, poses, and how best to get stuff out? Any setting requests?


I think this could be awesome. My #1 request would be to photograph the models indoors, in good lighting, and against solid black or white backgrounds. It might sound boring but it simplifies a designer's task when we want to swap backgrounds. I also have a preference for images that are taken fairly close up, just zoomed enough to get in the model's whole body - or their body from the waist up.

Also, I'm sure other posters have brought this up, but don't forget to have the models sign releases.



Krista D. Ball said:


> Let me rephrase the question: we're all...normal looking. Is that a problem?


Not for me, I'll just cut off your heads (and I mean that in the kindest possible way).


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Dara England said:


> I think this could be awesome. My #1 request would be to photograph the models indoors, in good lighting, and against solid black or white backgrounds.


Dara, we're going to do the bulk in the studio. I asked for basic backgrounds for that, too.



> I also have a preference for images that are taken fairly close up, just zoomed enough to get in the model's whole body - or their body from the waist up.


I'm not sure what the first group will look like. I did a need, want, would be nice list. I think the close ups are under want, so they won't be right away.



> Also, I'm sure other posters have brought this up, but don't forget to have the models sign releases.


Is there a download of this? It's just us so we can all do it ourselves at the pub one night  I've been elected the lesbian kiss scene model. I'm not sure why.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh, and for pricing:

We're not completely sure yet, since there is the rates that get taken when selling on 3rd party places (we're just not able to put up the investment for the website ourselves). However, we were thinking about doing most in the $10-20 range, and will set aside a few that we can eventually put up on a basic site for exclusive use (so those won't be added to the other places). And would sell an individual one for $100.

Thoughts?


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

BTW, this is really for YOU. I want to help self-publishers and small presses (including the indie RGPers) who really need these images. We're fully stocked. Also, we have a lady in the group whose bucket list includes doing some modelling so she is just so tickled to do this (she's the lady in the original photos...who I think just looks perfect in her boiled leather and sword)

So please, let me know what you need. We'll try out best.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Is there a download of this?


Something basic like this might do for you: http://www.nyip.com/ezine/techtips/model-release.html

I'm not an expert but I think you pretty much just want something for legal protection, to ensure nobody tries to sue anybody else. Also, I think stock photo sites require a release form anyway when you upload your photos. You can find more details on the stock sites.

As far as prices, I'm used to paying around $30 for a good historical image (non-exclusive), so your prices sound good. Good luck! I'm excited to see what you guys come up with.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

First images just came in. Thoughts?










I KID! I KID!


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

She definitely gets the distraction bonus to AC. But she might want to clean and sharpen that sword...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Why bother? The sword is as tall as she is. It isn't like she can do anything but use it as a tree to lean against 

We have all of the big stuff organized (people, photographers, money). Just the getting it together stage (also need to set up the accounts). It's going to be several shoots and all that, but we're now thinking we might be able to do some historically accurate stuff later this year, into early next year. It's amazing how much gear everyone has...


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## Linda Ash (Jul 13, 2010)

Just wanted to share some pics I took at a Dagorhir event a few years ago, mainly because I was so impressed with a lot of the armor. Here's the link.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

I know swords are sexier than axes are sexier than daggers are sexier than pretty much everything else, but, y'know, for large chunks of history, metal was... pricey. I've not seen a lot of stock are with modest-pieces-of-metal-affixed-to-big-pieces-of-wood, i.e. spears and maces. (A flanged mace and an antisocial cat are the cornerstones of my home security system.)

Oh, and I bet photos of a mob with torches and pitchforks would sell like hotcakes funnel cakes. 

_--George, the Wikipedia page for spiculums begins "Not to be confused with 'speculum'..._


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

George Berger said:


> I know swords are sexier than axes are sexier than daggers are sexier than pretty much everything else, but, y'know, for large chunks of history, metal was... pricey. I've not seen a lot of stock are with modest-pieces-of-metal-affixed-to-big-pieces-of-wood, i.e. spears and maces. (A flanged mace and an antisocial cat are the cornerstones of my home security system.)
> 
> Oh, and I bet photos of a mob with torches and pitchforks would sell like hotcakes funnel cakes.
> 
> _--George, the Wikipedia page for spiculums begins "Not to be confused with 'speculum'..._


We are planning maces and spears (because we have lots  ).

A mob with torches would be awesome...


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> First images just came in. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Krista, I faffing love you. That is all.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah...I'm gonna pass on that


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

How about women in gowns - with their heads still attached?   (Bucking the current trend of the headless gown cover.)


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

N. Gemini Sasson said:


> How about women in gowns - with their heads still attached?  (Bucking the current trend of the headless gown cover.)


We really don't have any gowns. You're much more likely to get gowns on Hot Damn and Razzle Dazzle. We are definitely military-grade


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

genevieveaclark said:


> Also, I wouldn't dismiss using the pic of the woman holding a sword _that looks like it ate another sword._


"Dude, that chick's got a giant phallic symbol that _eats other phallic symbols_. I'm not sure whether to be slightly turned on or scared extremely poopless."

_--George, insert 'two-hander' innuendo here: ___________


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

An update. 

We have the photographer organized, agreements signed and discussed (thanks Dara for that suggestion). There is a follow up meeting this weekend to hammer out the last of the details.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Another update. Business plan, corporation, and all contracts drawn up. Models chosen for the first run. Once we have proofs, we'll all be working to get them up. Then I'll post that they are ready to go.

We're also added a would be nice of different ethnic groups with fantasy garb. So Indian, Native, Asian, Black, etc. The idea is to get more options for folks. At first, we're probably just gonna have us white folk, since that's what our group is   But after we get going, we'll be able to branch out.

Suggestions continue to be accepted. We're all doing this to help out small publishers and DIYers, so we want your ideas!


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

We're really excited. We opted to go the "protect ourselves completely first" route, so it's taking longer than any of us would have liked. However, at the same time, it's working out better because we're been all able to iron out some potentially major issues (i.e. one photographer wanted to make the stereotypical half-dressed warrior princess looks and couldn't get past the idea that we didn't want T&A all over the place). 

I'm also pleased that the photographer we've brought on is a local professional who does a lot of big project stuff, and is looking to move into the geek world. He's very excited to work with us, and definitely understands the book cover needs.

It's going to take us time to build up a large pool of art, but I think doing it in stages and taking our time to do it right is the best method.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> An update.
> 
> We have the photographer organized, agreements signed and discussed (thanks Dara for that suggestion). There is a follow up meeting this weekend to hammer out the last of the details.


That's great, Krista.

At least there will be the possibility that someone will use something other than barfy chainmail bikini photos.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm sure there will always be those who think fantasy novels should have fully-clothed men and bareassed women on their covers, but I think there are a lot more who won't want that, but have no other options.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> ...I think there are a lot more who won't want that, but have no other options.


There's always goats. No, wait, did I mention how hard it was to find a cover artist willing to draw a normal-looking goat, or how one anthro artist assumed I wanted a 'cute' goat in a 'sexy' pose? It's like The Rule of Inappropriately Sexy Cover Art, or something...


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## rubyscribe (Jun 2, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Also, what is missing the most? (and, yes, I know, CLOTHED WOMEN).


I released a historical fiction/fantasy short story 10 days ago. I was looking for an image of a girl with a demon and ALL the girls were disrobed and the demons were robotic looking. Then I thought of seeking a princess type dressed in ancient greek clothing and there was NO such image. Finally I settled for a demon sketch that I tweaked and there is no girl on my cover, even though it's a story about a girl.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

> princess type dressed in ancient greek clothing


When you say girl, do you mean child or adult? We won't be doing any underaged photos.


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## Erin Zarro (Apr 30, 2011)

Hey, this is an awesome idea.    I haven't been able to read everything in this thread yet, so I apologize in advance if I duplicate anything.

What I'm looking for (and struggling with) is a female in leather (not as much sexy as just...tough) wielding a dagger or sword.  A full shot, maybe her crouching or standing tall or something.  It is so hard to find stock like this!  Also, facial expressions.  Some of the stock I've seen has just awkward/odd facial expressions.  

Would love to see what you come up with!


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Erin Zarro said:


> Hey, this is an awesome idea.  I haven't been able to read everything in this thread yet, so I apologize in advance if I duplicate anything.
> 
> What I'm looking for (and struggling with) is a female in leather (not as much sexy as just...tough) wielding a dagger or sword. A full shot, maybe her crouching or standing tall or something. It is so hard to find stock like this! Also, facial expressions. Some of the stock I've seen has just awkward/odd facial expressions.
> 
> Would love to see what you come up with!


No worries, Erin. I told you to come over here 

So we won't have contemporary stuff for quite a while, sadly. Since there is so much of it compared with historical and fantasy, we're going to aim first for those genres. However, we do want to try to branch out into some contemporary fantasy and perhaps even a little roman or greek at some point -- though we're not sure yet since I'm not comfortable with the historical costumes we have and making new costumes isn't something you can do overnight.

One thing I'd love *just love* to do is to have some actual authentic Regency images. But, that's a pipe dream for now


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Krista D. Ball said:


> First images just came in. Thoughts?


Yeah. Almost didn't notice the sword.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Ha!

Question for everyone -- is listing at Dreamstime and drivethrurpg enough to start with? None of us have enough time and/or skill set to set up a website and run an e-commerce store.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

I admit, I didn't read the whole thread. How do I find your stock photos at the aforementioned sites?


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Right now, you can't because we haven't started actually photography 

Once it's up and running, I was going to start a new thread with links to the images. That's the short term. Long term, I'm not sure. In an ideal world, I'd like to team up with someone who is doing covers and perhaps we pool resources and have an ecommerce site between us. They sell their pre-made covers and we sell stock images. And, in some cases, the artist might make covers with our stock images.


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Right now, you can't because we haven't started actually photography
> 
> Once it's up and running, I was going to start a new thread with links to the images. That's the short term. Long term, I'm not sure. In an ideal world, I'd like to team up with someone who is doing covers and perhaps we pool resources and have an ecommerce site between us. They sell their pre-made covers and we sell stock images. And, in some cases, the artist might make covers with our stock images.


In that case, I'll be tracking this thread waiting on those links.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Photo session scheduled this coming weekend. I'm setting up Dreamstime account this week, and will speak with DriveThruRGP to see if I can get  stock listed there, too. I should have the first run ready to go by July.


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## Gregory Lynn (Aug 9, 2011)

Awesome.

Have fun, be awesome, post samples, don't get too stabby.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh, and it looks like we'll do 100 photos to start.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Krista,

If you find you are not getting a good deal from the big sites, I already have a cover art site set up, and we could work something out. I already have other photographers set up, so it's easy for me to separate out sales. I just got back from my wedding and have tons of art to upload over the next couple weeks. A hundred or so more would not be a big deal as long as the model releases are in order. (And I have one ready to go if you need it. I had my own lawyer draw it up and keep it to one page.)


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks. The rates for the two that we're going to use is actually ok (for the first run, we're only using the one model and we have her release). I think we'll be ok to start, but if we need somewhere else to go, I know to drop you a line.

Thanks


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Heads up - our corporation has been approved and all set up: Ferrets with Panache Inc    

I am working on accounts, paypal and registrations and the like, and am going to work on a simple website with links. We're getting there folks


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Yay!


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## Kevis Hendrickson (Feb 28, 2009)

Zelah Meyer said:


> Yay!


I was going to say the same thing.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

First photo session is booked for July 7th. I'll be away, so I won't be there. It's going to be a simple one, with just 1 female model (clothed) with swords and armor. The goal is to have 100 images to start. It might take me a couple of weeks to get them organized and uploaded, but I'm aiming for end of July to have the first load of photos up. 

We've also decided to keep back 4-5 that we'll sell as exclusives, as well as 5-10 that will be discounted heavily. That way, we're hoping to meet the needs of everyone's bank account.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Hey, congratulations on getting a shoot set up. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Something I'd like to have is pictures of witches (male and female) that don't look like they're ready to Trick or Treat. I'm doing a series, so shots of the same people in different poses, outfits, backgrounds would be great.

I've been having a hard time finding suitable stock art for a cover I'm doing--I need a young woman in a black robe that doesn't look like a freak. No long nails, goofy makeup, strange/crazed expressions, etc. Maybe I just don't know what search terms to put in.  

Anyway, good luck, and I'll be checking in for more news.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Sheila_Guthrie said:


> I need a young woman in a black robe that doesn't look like a freak. No long nails, goofy makeup, strange/crazed expressions, etc.


A couple of folks have asked for this, too. I'll be honest; I won't have those for a while. We don't want to bankrupt ourselves by doing too much, too fast. We've decided that we wanted to respect any photographers and models that work for us by paying them upfront for their work. Lori, the first model, is doing this for free because she's one of the backers of the project.

If we can swing it, we might even do some historical ones, as well as a few contemporary ones. However, realistically I don't see us hitting that for another six months. We do want to make sure we stay solvent 

But, yes, please keep sharing the ideas of what you're struggling to find because I can add them to our list.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Sheila, the Shakespearean troupe I'll be photographing in a month or so has the theme of Medieval Macabre, and might have what you're looking for. I'll keep an eye out. I'll be shooting them during their costume fittings. It's all creepy/evil costumes other than a few travelers, distressed damsels, and a couple people randomly in togas.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

Action shots but obscure the face (with helmets or something).  Personally, I don't like stock photos where the model's face is the primary focus.  I want that to be left up to the reader's imagination.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks Alain. We're going to be doing some of those, too.

~~

Are there any props that are lacking in stock images?


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

T.L. Haddix said:


> We have issues finding old weapons - pirate guns (sorry, can't think of the name - migraine coming on, I fear), and also trouble finding people holding weapons accurately. Don't cover the trigger, dang it! Finger goes alongside until you're ready to fire.


I've noticed that one, too. Seriously, folks, get your fingers off the triggers already!


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> I've noticed that one, too. Seriously, folks, get your fingers off the triggers already!


"Keep your booger hook off the boom switch until you're ready to kill something."


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh, yeah, Krista, I understand. Just wanted to throw in some ideas. I can't wait to see what your first shoot looks like.

And TexasGirl, I'll be looking to see what you guys come up with. It won't help on this current book, but there be sequels ahead! "Spooky" themed, Gothic, walking away, walking towards you, walking/running anywhere, looking at things (even if the "things" aren't actually there), looking off-set, etc.

Just not Techni-colored, glittery, and/or hey, it looked pretty good in the haunted house! or hey, look--I'm a witch! type stuff. There's more than enough of that on the standard sites.

And _togas_? Hmmmm. Might have to do something with that.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2012)

As a (somewhat) irrelevant side note, a cover that looked something like this would be really cool.






Hey, I'd buy it.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Krista D. Ball said:


> First photo session is booked for July 7th. I'll be away, so I won't be there. It's going to be a simple one, with just 1 female model (clothed) with swords and armor. The goal is to have 100 images to start. It might take me a couple of weeks to get them organized and uploaded, but I'm aiming for end of July to have the first load of photos up.
> 
> We've also decided to keep back 4-5 that we'll sell as exclusives, as well as 5-10 that will be discounted heavily. That way, we're hoping to meet the needs of everyone's bank account.


Krista, I love your stuff, and even the picture you posted is giving me ideas.

No, not _those _kind of ideas.

Maybe.

But story ideas as well!

Honestly, if you can get that model in some decent plated armour, that'd be something I would definitely be interested in for my Paladin's story.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

George Berger said:


> "Keep your booger hook off the boom switch until you're ready to kill something."


Usually the answer you get is something like: "Don't worry, it's not loaded."

To which my reply is: "Loaded guns kill enemies, unloaded guns kill friends."


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Usually the answer you get is something like: "Don't worry, it's not loaded."
> 
> To which my reply is: "Loaded guns kill enemies, unloaded guns kill friends."


I took a firearms safety class many, many years ago at a certain military installation that shall remain nameless. The first thing we did was walk from the firing range aaaaaaalllllll the way over to the officers' mess, outside of which was a strange-looking contraption. It was a big barrel full of sand, on a wooden stand, with a hole in one end. Remove clip, insert _unloaded_ handgun, squeeze trigger to confirm the chamber is empty, then proceed into the mess.

The ass end of the barrel looked like a blacksmith had pounded on it with a ball-peen hammer for two hours. A freaking great lot of people (who should never have had a round in the chamber in the first place...) had believed their gun to be unloaded, and proved wrong. And they were _officers_, the best and brightest, right?


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Honestly, if you can get that model in some decent plated armour, that'd be something I would definitely be interested in for my Paladin's story.


We don't have any good plate right now, but it's on our "to purchase" list.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Krista D. Ball said:


> We don't have any good plate right now, but it's on our "to purchase" list.


I actually have one WIP that needs Greek style armour (it's about an avatar of Athena). I can post the draft when I get home.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Please do. Realistically, we won't be able to get to it in time to be useful for you (unless we make back all of our investment costs within a couple weeks lol), but I can add it to the list. We're doing an inventory of props right now, so that we only buy things we actually need


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Just a heads up that the photo shoot is happening RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

We're hoping to have 100 photos from this shoot. 5-ish we're going to set aside for $100 exclusives, 5-10ish for $5 downloads, then everything else will be in the $20ish range.

For the exclusives, I'm planning to watermark them and use Deviant Art to list. The $5 might need to be held back until I figure out how best to sell those, since they are going to be repeatedly sold and we're not set up yet to handle that. So the discount ones might need to wait. Photos should be up on Dreamstime, however, within a couple of weeks.

I'll begin to link once I get going.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

So exciting! I bet you get some good stuff!


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## William Stacey (Jul 7, 2012)

JRTomlin said:


> I agree with the shield. Actually, shields were usually used and it was movies like Braveheart that convinced writers that everyone used two handed swords. Well, they didn't and they weren't even necessarily effective. (On this subject Song of Ice and Fire isn't any better. I am disappointed in the very unrealistic armor and weapons Martin puts in his novels)
> 
> I admit that there are times when you have to go with a popular perception instead of fighting it. However, I'll only go so far in that. One of the things almost all my fighters (historical or fantasy) do is carry a shield. Someone is trying to stick you with a very sharp, pointy object, you want a shield.
> 
> ...


Hello,
I've always found Martin's research and presentation on medieval fighting to be superb. In fact, he's been very open on his webpage on the books that he's based much of his medieval swordfighting on. However, there is probably no right presentation for fantasy swordfighting, because it'd hard to define the time period that fantasy is copying. We're really talking about an evolution in swordfighting and armor that drastically changed as technology changed. In 700AD Viking warriors (if they could afford them) carried longswords without much of a point at all, because they were slashing weapons -- because few people had armor, and if they did, it was chainmail, which was fine for a slashing weapon. As armor evolved into pieces of plate (maybe around 1200AD; I'd have to research the date), slashing weapons became less effective, and swords became pointier (for stabbing between the plates), with less emphasis on the edge; much more needlelike. Of course, other evolutions involved much, much bigger heavier swords to smash and break bones beneath the plate and chain; so there wasn't just one way to kill a knight. As a species we're really good at finding ways to kill each other. Move, countermove.

As far as leather armor goes, I've read about armour made from raindeer hide that was more effective than chainmail (not sure about that, but it's possible, I guess). I've also seen armor made from bundles of paper that was very, very effective (and cheap). So, in the right context, I think leather armor would be very effective, particularly if studded and combined with other pieces. At least you'd be able to move a lot more freely in it. Full sets of plate armor costed--a lot.

Shields evolved and changed a lot as well. They tended to be more useful in the 700-900AD timeframe (when swords were more slashing weapons than stabbing weapons), and less effective after plate armor came on the scene (for them with the bucks to buy it). I suspect that round about the time you saw the shield wall disappear as an essential fighting formation, the shield itself began to also become less essential for the fighting man.

But this is all very complex and I'm not probably not doing it justice at all. From my perspective, for fantasy, a writer should chose a period within the medieval spectrum that best suits their story and borrow the relevant technology from that particular period, 'cause it changes--a lot. If his or her warriors are using longswords for slashing, they probably need chainmail and a wooden, bossed shield on their arms. If they're using a two-handed great sword, they're probably fighting in plate or partial plate, and it's unlikely anyone has a shield. But there is no exact right answer, just generics. I suppose it all comes down to research, even for invented worlds.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

You can probably charge more than $5. I buy stock photos directly from photographers sometimes, and I've paid from $12-30 per photo for nonexclusive use. For specialized images, I would certainly expect the prices to be higher. And if charging more lets you get more creative with your stock...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Sara, the bulk (85% will be in the $20ish range. However, we wanted to take some of the more generic photos from the shoot and offer at a discount for those who just needed photos in that range. 

Our goal is to move to offering photos mostly in the mid-range, but then offering 10% exclusives and 10% discount/bargains.


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## Joshua Rigley (Mar 19, 2011)

I wish you the best of luck in this new venture of yours. Thanks for doing this by the way, fantasy stock art is fairly hard to come by.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

I want to share a link from Flickr, but it keeps not showing up. What am I doing wrong?


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Krista D. Ball said:


> I want to share a link from Flickr, but it keeps not showing up. What am I doing wrong?


Are trying to post it as an image or just a link?


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

Hmm image. Let me try both ways:


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7524269742/


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

I can't seem to post the image into the post...  

ETA: figured out how to post it in small size at least.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)




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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Krista D. Ball said:


> I can't seem to post the image into the post...


I think you need to go the sizes page and right-click from there. You choose any of the sizes.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

AHH! Thanks  

The first run ended up having to be outside (on the hottest day of the year, of course). So it's mostly outdoorsy action stuff. We have some fight scenes, etc. However, this is going to be one of our exclusive photos. It's a great shot (actually it's 4 shots in total all similar, so the set will be exclusive). 

We're going to do a steampunk next month outdoors, then we're doing a fantasy/steampunk split in the studio with all of the weapons, armour, face closeups. 

This is our first go, so already learned a lot. However, I hope it's starting off as something people can use.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

We also took some photos of boys.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

I LOL'd when I saw these - by putting people in tall grass, you've unwittingly continued the stereotype of fantasy artists not being able to draw/paint realistic feet, only in photography. 

Impressive first effort, though. Now if you can just have a heart-to-heart with your photog about composition...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

George Berger said:


> composition...


? What do you mean?


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