# Cliches you hate...



## Tom Schreck (Dec 12, 2010)

Certain cliches drive me nuts.

Here's some of my pet peeves:

1. FBI agents are ALWAYS overly officious and stupid
2. All private eyes are either hard drinkers or in recovery from alcoholism
3. Cops never can express their feelings
4. Rich people are always crooked
5. Rich housewives are usually involved in swinger clubs or prostitution
6. Punches and karate chops always render people unconscious but never seriously hurt them
7. Clergy are almost always evil
8. Profiling always works
9. Everyone knows how to shoot a gun accurately
10. There's always a seat at the bar, a table at the restaurant and no traffic

Yours?


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## CNDudley (May 14, 2010)

Those were really good ones! I hope we can include movies here, since a story's a story.

Have you ever noticed how:

1) Every judge is at least black, or preferably an Afr-Am female?

2) The only happy families are the non-traditional ones.

3) The "bad" politicians usually have some backroom scene where they smoke cigars or hit up strippers.

4) I'm in total agreement about the lousy clergy representation. They're at the very least perverts. And their congregants are at best hypocrites through-and-through and at worst stupid, evil, judgmental hypocrites running child prostitution rings.

5) Everyone wants the main character because s/he's so hot hot hot!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Tom Schreck said:


> 2. All private eyes are either hard drinkers or in recovery from alcoholism


And even if they aren't, all private eyes are constantly hard up for cash. Makes you wonder if they're in the wrong business?



> 6. Punches and karate chops always render people unconscious but never seriously hurt them


I just read _Storm Front_, in which Harry Dresden gets hit in the head with a baseball bat, shows obvious signs of a concussion, yet a supposedly experienced police officer just cleans him up a bit and takes him home, instead of to the emergency room.


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

NogDog said:


> I just read _Storm Front_, in which Harry Dresden gets hit in the head with a baseball bat, shows obvious signs of a concussion, yet a supposedly experienced police officer just cleans him up a bit and takes him home, instead of to the emergency room.


Haha! I know. I still can't believe I kept reading and got hooked on that series, after the awfulness that was Storm Front. IIRC, Butcher wrote that piece of ?!!? when he was about 19. *guilty pleasure*


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

One thing I've noticed a lot in books, don't know if this is considered a cliche, but people always forget to eat.  What's up with that?  No matter what kind of story, at some point they'll be saying, "I realized I hadn't eaten since yesterday" or something like that.  Really?  I never forget to eat (for long periods of time).  And if I do, I get all shaky and nervous, so my body tells me.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

StaceyHH said:


> Haha! I know. I still can't believe I kept reading and got hooked on that series, after the awfulness that was Storm Front. IIRC, Butcher wrote that piece of ?!!? when he was about 19. *guilty pleasure*


So does it get better, I take it? I rather enjoyed the writing, but found the plot and characters too contrived/cliched to make me want to read more.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> One thing I've noticed a lot in books, don't know if this is considered a cliche, but people always forget to eat. What's up with that? No matter what kind of story, at some point they'll be saying, "I realized I hadn't eaten since yesterday" or something like that. Really? I never forget to eat (for long periods of time). And if I do, I get all shaky and nervous, so my body tells me.


Heh...that's _another_ one that showed up in _Storm Front_.


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

NogDog said:


> So does it get better, I take it? I rather enjoyed the writing, but found the plot and characters too contrived/cliched to make me want to read more.


Uh... I don't know if I'd say that exactly. Butcher's writing gets a little tighter, and snappier. I think his Codex Alera books helped with the experience factor. (Although I haven't read any of them.) It's just that they're pulp, candy, cocaine, kryptonite, Long Island Iced Tea... you know they're trashy and not good for you, but you just-can't-stop-reading.

There is an ongoing storyline, that turns out to be a decent hook, and more character development, as well as some wizard-style political intrigue, so it's not all trashy pulp.  I think I could have done take-it-or-leave-it after book 2 also, but by the time I finished book 3 I was kind of addicted.

Plus, I saw Butcher at an author event at Powell's, and he's just cute as a button.


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## Rory Miller (Oct 21, 2010)

1. Whenever someone is housesitting or staying with their grandmother, a new neighbor has just moved in next door, and they're always the opposite sex and sort of mysterious but turn out to be wonderful people.  Of course they're hot too.

2. Everyone has a friend that has a baby that is in fact, an ugly baby despite those supposedly being so rare.

3. Not a cliche, but how many books do you see where the main character is a struggling writer?  I know we're all suppose to write what we know, but ugh.


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## MLPMom (Nov 27, 2009)

How about the plain girl that always manages to get two super model hot guys to fall in love with her? I love that one.


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## D. Nathan Hilliard (Jun 5, 2010)

The corporation is _always_ the bad guy.


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## DavidRM (Sep 21, 2010)

1. Bad guys that constantly justify themselves--to *themselves*. They're always making excuses to *themselves* for why they're doing what their doing.

2. Manipulation based on blatant lies that could be easily checked, but that the character blindly accepts as Total Truth.

I don't know if this next one is a cliche so much as just ... eh? In "The Warded Man", one of the characters is brutally raped by three men--and is happily engaging in (consensual) sex less than 72 hours later. No references to injuries, external or internal, or any mental or physical trauma. The rape was suddenly just ... not important. The woman was only somewhat upset that the titular character had to interrupt their tryst to deal with a demon.

-David


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

DavidRM said:


> 1. Bad guys that constantly justify themselves--to *themselves*. They're always making excuses to *themselves* for why they're doing what their doing.
> ...


The opposite is generally more bothersome to me: the bad guy who is simply bad for no particular reason and is perfectly fine with it. Humans are very good at rationalizing almost anything, whether it's political views or the desire to increase their wealth at the expense of others. Once they've set themselves on any particular path, they constantly find ways to convince themselves they have made the correct choice. So I don't think I'm necessarily bothered by the bad guy rationalizing his behavior -- the cliche issue here would be more to do with the specific rationalizations being overused and trite, not the act of rationalization itself.

IMHO, of course.  



DavidRM said:


> ...
> 2. Manipulation based on blatant lies that could be easily checked, but that the character blindly accepts as Total Truth.


That sort of thing can really irritate me, too. Generally any plot crisis caused by stupidity on the protagonist's part tends to bug me. That stupidity can be gullibility, stubbornness, obtuseness, ignoring good advice, etc. -- seemingly just to give a good excuse for putting them in a bad situation.


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## mattposner (Oct 28, 2010)

I am really fed up with the cinematic "slacker-striver" romantic comedies in which the man is a slacker because he doesn't know what to do with himself and is kind of a klutzy loser, while the woman is a hardworking corporate type who puts up with his bumbling until he finds himself.

Another rom com cliche I am tired of is the meet-cute in which the future couple have their first encounter in some silly or embarrassing way.

in my own field of fantasy I am tired of stories in which someone's destiny is to defeat the ultimate evil. Some classics do it well, of course, but it's overdone at this point.


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## PG4003 (Patricia) (Jan 30, 2010)

mattposner said:


> I am really fed up with the cinematic "slacker-striver" romantic comedies in which the man is a slacker because he doesn't know what to do with himself and is kind of a klutzy loser, while the woman is a hardworking corporate type who puts up with his bumbling until he finds himself.


I agree with this viewpoint. Almost all of the sitcoms that feature a "family" show the father as being stupid, bumbling, and a joke. Far from the "Father Knows Best" attitude that I grew up with. I used to love watching Everybody Loves Raymond, but they really made him look like an idiot, and his wife was always the winner and always criticizing him.


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## Phil Edwards (Jan 13, 2011)

To add to the "struggling writer" cliche- it seems that when the writer doesn't want to make his avatar a writer as well, he makes him an "architect". It connotes just the right amount of dreamy suffering.


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## CNDudley (May 14, 2010)

mattposner said:


> Another rom com cliche I am tired of is the meet-cute in which the future couple have their first encounter in some silly or embarrassing way.


You hit it right on the head! I'm 1/3 of the way through a book (not a rom com--this one is meant to be "aht") where the two meet because she has stomach flu and barfs on his shoes.


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## FictionalWriter (Aug 4, 2010)

Since I write historical romances and read a ton of them, I know every time I open a book with the heroine asking the hero to ruin her so she can avoid a horrible marriage/unwanted attention/get something she wants, the hairs on the back of my neck immediately go up.


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## TheRiddler (Nov 11, 2010)

In fairness to Jim Butcher, the experienced knew the Wizards heal quickly.

Back on track, the "and it was all a dream" just bugs me. Yes 'Jacobs Ladder' I'm looking at you. What's the point me investing my time in a plot that turns out to have only existed in a dream


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

I hate "the big misunderstanding." The big misunderstanding that drives a couple apart when, if they just talked to each other (or their friends, co-workers or whomever) for about 23 seconds, everything would be straightened out.

L


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Leslie said:


> I hate "the big misunderstanding." The big misunderstanding that drives a couple apart when, if they just talked to each other (or their friends, co-workers or whomever) for about 23 seconds, everything would be straightened out.
> 
> L


YYEEEESSSSS .... I hate that one. And I hate it in a book more than on a sitcom or something. It's cheating.


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## Gordon Ryan (Aug 20, 2010)

DavidRM said:


> 1. Bad guys that constantly justify themselves--to *themselves*. They're always making excuses to *themselves* for why they're doing what their doing.
> 
> -David


The attitude of "I refuse to allow your condemnation of my rationalization to stand in the way of doing what I want. I know I'm right!"

As to "the big misunderstanding," is was the theme of many nineteenth century novels wherein the letter never got read, delivered, or was intercepted by someone, mother, other lover, etc. Years later they find out.

Yet we keep reading this stuff, don't we?

Gordon Ryan


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

Good thread, I have two pet peeves:

1) people who pad across the room. It's so over-used that it makes me cringe.

2) serial killers who are highly amused and/or smug about their crimes, and think they're smarter than everyone else.

Debra


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## Tom Schreck (Dec 12, 2010)

This is great! With every one of these I read I find myself saying "Yes! I hate that one too!"

The guy as dunce/slacker is tired. Do you think that is aimed at a female audience?

When i write I do my best to avoid stereotypes but its not easy. It takes work.

I work as a professional boxing judge and my main character is a part time fighter. Books and Hollywood almost ALWAYS get boxing wrong so I try really hard in that area.

Think of all the boxing cliches:

1. Underdog always wins
2. Cornerman (coach) is always old and crochety
3. Boxers are always dumb and broke
4. Injuries in the ring are gruesome and no referee ever stops them
5. arenas are always smoky and dingy 
6 Fighters are always throwing fights and taking payoffs....

On and on...


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## David &#039;Half-Orc&#039; Dalglish (Feb 1, 2010)

Leslie said:


> I hate "the big misunderstanding." The big misunderstanding that drives a couple apart when, if they just talked to each other (or their friends, co-workers or whomever) for about 23 seconds, everything would be straightened out.
> 
> L


Roger Ebert calls this "the idiot plot." It's a plot that endures only because every character is an idiot and won't talk to anyone else to solve a problem that would take only seconds.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Half-Orc said:


> Roger Ebert calls this "the idiot plot." It's a plot that endures only because every character is an idiot and won't talk to anyone else to solve a problem that would take only seconds.


I think that sums up a lot of plot issues that irk me: the bad things happen mainly because the protagonist refuses to use common sense or a little forethought, or to ignore advice from someone who deserves to be listened to.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Killing off characters as a way of getting rid of loose ends or to highlight danger. It gets old.

In order to be a good cop, you must be a bad cop.

Soldiers are not in any way like anyone else.

The good guy is attractive, the villain isn't.

Characters live a lifestyle well above what is reasonable for the job they do.

If the reader or viewer knows it, the characters know it too.

When an organization is corrupt, every one in the organization, down the the janitors is in on it. For some reason, the conspirators tell even the bottom tier employees of their evil plans.

Serial killers are unstoppable super-humans.

The aliens are so evil, so single-minded in their desire to wipe out humanity, that the only way to be safe is to destroy their whole planet before they get us.

Second-place is a disgrace. If you aren't the very best, don't bother.

Characters go on long explanatory rants to explain things that the other characters would already know quite well.

The villain doesn't have a motivation, he's just evil.

A romantic rival is always evil.

Aliens who come here to destroy us won't just blast us from space, they will hover over our cities to give us the chance to attack them.

We don't see alien technology built for aliens ten times our size or built for aliens ten times smaller than us. The aliens have chairs, and we fit in them nicely.

When you go to an old friend for help, that old friend will betray you.

When that old friend betrays you to the bad guy, the bad guy, rather than giving a reward, kills him.

No jail can hold the bad guy.

Cars explode when they crash.

People can easily use old, obsolete technology without having experience with it, just because it is older and therefore simpler.

No one ever has to go to the bathroom in space.


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## J.K. Arauz (Jan 10, 2011)

Tom Schreck said:


> 2. All private eyes are either hard drinkers or in recovery from alcoholism


They also aren't very well liked or considered friendly in any way, despite the few close friends that go out of their way to help the P.I.
Also, they have ex-wives. Sometimes several ex-wives.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

Aliens are always extremely humanoid. They have mouths and use them to talk, two eyes, walk around on two legs, have two genders, and female aliens are hot. 

All female characters are either: totally hot, apparently plain but will be totally hot as soon as they get some self-confidence and take off their glasses, or figures of mockery. Or, occasionally, someone's wise old grandma. 

Men are bumbling little boys, who need a woman to tell them what is good for them and fix them up. 

Women LOVE it when a man they have rejected chases them incessantly and won't give up. They would never get a restraining order on Mr. Romance.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

Come on, you guys can't knock anthropomorphized aliens, that is an entire genre! 

My clique pet peeves: 1. The late 20s/early 30's blazing hot scientist who somehow is a leader in their field but never settled down until they bump into the hero

2. Mindless bad guy goons who seem to willing go to their death at the hands of the hero, who has already demonstrated his ability to mow down said goons with ease.

3. The bad guy who demonstrates his "bad guyness" by killing off his own men for seemingly trivial failures at the hands of the hero. That tactic was not in any corporate motivational seminar I've ever attended!

4. Why is EVERY religious figure a Catholic priest? Has no writer ever been Lutheran, Baptist, or Presbyterian? And if he isn't Catholic, he is a wizened smart-alec rabbi.

5. And not an issue for books, but in movies I HATE that damned stick of French Bread that indicates "I've been to the grocery store!" to the audience


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

> I HATE that damned stick of French Bread that indicates "I've been to the grocery store!" to the audienc


Hahahahaha! That is because celery makes your underwear fall down.

http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/art1.html


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

Thalia the Muse said:


> Hahahahaha! That is because celery makes your underwear fall down.
> 
> http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/art1.html


*cackle*


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

The guy in the tin foil with the crazy conspiracy theory is actually right.

No matter how many unlikely events have happened before, the next time something similar happens, people won't believe it.

The bad guy can always infiltrate the good guys with an implausible story.

You can fall long distances without injury.

People are instantly killed by gut wounds.

Important characters can survive long enough to make a death speech. My death speech would be so long that by the time I was done, I would be healed.

The best friend who shows up, but who hasn't been previously referenced will be killed off soon.

Repulsive aliens come to Earth to mate with our women. Apparently, these aliens find themselves repulsive, and only humans will do.

Planets, stars and galaxies aren't very far away, you can travel at the speed of plot.

Earth computers can interface with alien computers easily.

People who have cats are either insane, or evil geniuses.

Robots explode if you tell them that you are lying.

When the hero fights the villain, it may devastate entire blocks of a city, but no one gets killed.

No matter how casually the villain throws away the lives of his minions, he never seems to have trouble recruiting more. The death benefits must be great.

There are no safety rails on space stations. You would think that even if they don't care for the lives of minions, they at least might care about the equipment that the minion might land on.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

Thalia the Muse said:


> Hahahahaha! That is because celery makes your underwear fall down.
> 
> http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/art1.html


Dang, I don't know the origin of that series of paintings (not sure I WANT to know!), but if I ever write a book or a movie, I"m working it in!


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## tdmsu (Feb 5, 2010)

Great thread!  

Here are some of mine:

Protagonist is never the fat, sloppy guy/girl

People suddenly wake up from a coma and are instantly fine

I avoid anything marketed as "The Mother of all..."

Jocks are always dumb, nerds are always frail

People always split up to investigate suspicious noises

Glasses = intelligent, usually unattractive too

No one ever needs to rest - I'll admit it would be boring to write about a fitful sleep, but still.


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## stephaniedray (Jan 12, 2011)

Although I've loved a number of books with this premise...I don't want to read about a young orphan who goes to some sort of school to come into his/her magic powers for a long long time.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

stephaniedray said:


> Although I've loved a number of books with this premise...I don't want to read about a young orphan who goes to some sort of school to come into his/her magic powers for a long long time.


I thought the same thing until I read The Name of the Wind, but it's so well written and deviates enough from the Harry Potter wannabes that I didn't mind.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

My fear about "Name of the Wind" is that Kvothe has been built up so much whe he actually does the things he is legendary/infamous for I'll either say "huh, that's IT?" or it will have the Star Wars prequels effect, where knowing the ending robs the events of surprise.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

Every cliche was once a fresh idea. I remember reading a list of tired cliches that would get any story tossed in an editors trash can.

... and it was all a dream.

... and they called it Earth.

... and their names were Adam and Eve.

To be more precise, it was cliched plot twists. The plot twist is risky, and difficult to do right. The Twilight Zone did it right, but imitators played it safe. They tried to bring back the TZ several years ago, but the stories were safe and cliche. A good plot twist should be one that you didn't see coming, but makes perfect sense when you see it.


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## J.K. Arauz (Jan 10, 2011)

QuantumIguana said:


> Repulsive aliens come to Earth to mate with our women. Apparently, these aliens find themselves repulsive, and only humans will do.


Hm, I don't think I've seen this very often.


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## KatieKlein (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't know if this is an issue in books because I don't read this kind of novel . . .

But in movies I hate how the bad ninjas all stand around and try to beat the good guy one at a time (preferably in some kind of circle). I mean, if you outnumber the guy, pounce on him! 

And the French bread comment made me LOL.


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## Tom Schreck (Dec 12, 2010)

I keep finding myself saying "yes!"

I never noticed some of these that are ABSOLUTELY true...

Every clergy IS a Catholic priest...cars always explode...and my favorite--the French bread in the groceries!!!


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## marshacanham (Jul 30, 2010)

historicalromauthor said:


> Since I write historical romances and read a ton of them, I know every time I open a book with the heroine asking the hero to ruin her so she can avoid a horrible marriage/unwanted attention/get something she wants, the hairs on the back of my neck immediately go up.


It's the TSTL heroine (too stupid to live) heroine that makes me throw a book across the room. The perky, feisty, beautiful, most sought after girl in all of the city, country, world, who is far past the marrying age for that time period, yet no one seems to call her what she is: a spinster. And when that same perky, feisty, beautiful, most sought after heroine meets the uber sexy, over-sexed, dark eyed scoundrel/beast/hero, she gets all tongue-tied and blushing and constantly trips up or makes basic mistakes so the hero has to save her from her own stupidity.

Sort of like in the movies, when the background music starts to throb and the heroine goes into the dark, empty house even though she knows there is an axe murderer on the loose.

Speaking of throbbing...some of the euphemisms slay me too. Like padding across the room. Blah. Or orbs for eyes, or...and forgive me Virginia Henley (who is a very good buddy of mine and knows I mock this at every turn) but if I see manroot in a book, it goes into the pool. Throbbing manroot is even worse. I picture a long hairy carrot. Bulging manhood gets a stab too, as do heaving breasts. Who heaves a breast unless they are 44ddddd?

Books where the hero is blundering around, nearly getting caught or shot for the first half of the book then miraculously turn into superhero for the second half and manage to foil entire world conspiracies singlehandedly drive me nuts.

Ditto for characters who get beaten, stabbed, shot, but show up the next day with a new bandage.

In movies and TV...the main character male or female who is the FBI or CIA or Navy Seal expert who keeps firing at the bad guys and never hits them the first time around, even if they have a machine gun. Ditto the bad guys who outnumber the good guys 20-1 but can never seem to hit anything they shoot at.

And car chases...always with the prerequisite woman with the baby carriage crossing the road. Or the vegetable cart that gets smashed to smithereens. And how many broken overpasses can there be? Don't these guys see the construction equipment or the huge red road block signs as the road is going upward? What do they think is at the end?

M


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## DavidRM (Sep 21, 2010)

marshacanham said:


> In movies and TV...the main character male or female who is the FBI or CIA or Navy Seal expert who keeps firing at the bad guys and never hits them the first time around, even if they have a machine gun. Ditto the bad guys who outnumber the good guys 20-1 but can never seem to hit anything they shoot at.


I also enjoyed the "manroot" section of your rant. =)

The gunplay comments reminded me...I was watching "Long Kiss Goodnight" the other night. I love the movie, but not because it's *good*...kinda like "The Replacement Killers"...I like the soundtrack, the premise, and the gunplay...and try not to look too hard at the story or listen too hard to the dialog (except where it's funny).

But, seriously, if your plan is a "discrete" rescure/extraction operation, or at least one that doesn't result in a lot collatoral damage...maybe you should leave the 10 guys with Uzi's back at the base. Just saying.

-David


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## Zell (Dec 27, 2010)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> One thing I've noticed a lot in books, don't know if this is considered a cliche, but people always forget to eat. What's up with that? No matter what kind of story, at some point they'll be saying, "I realized I hadn't eaten since yesterday" or something like that. Really? I never forget to eat (for long periods of time). And if I do, I get all shaky and nervous, so my body tells me.


I've noticed this too. Another for me is when characters seem to keep on going and never sleep then finally they'll realize it -- 3 days later?? Give me a break!


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## TheRiddler (Nov 11, 2010)

marshacanham said:


> Who heaves a breast unless they are 44ddddd?


I'd galdly heave breasts, but i don't think that's what you meant is it.....

How about the lone computer geek who actually really hot and has great people skills.
How about the 'good' vampire who only lives on non-human blood or blood from a blood-bank'
The police officer who is actually the serial killer they are hunting
The caretaker / janitor who is wise beyond their years and knows everything about the dark mystery
The serial killer who is too smart and NEVER leaves behind any physical evidence, no matter how much of a rush they're in.
The computer password that is always so obviously guessed, just on the last available attempt, when the 'owner' is due back in the next minute.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

> In movies and TV...the main character male or female who is the FBI or CIA or Navy Seal expert who keeps firing at the bad guys and never hits them the first time around, even if they have a machine gun. Ditto the bad guys who outnumber the good guys 20-1 but can never seem to hit anything they shoot at.


Curiously enough, though not exactly the same situation, some studies I've read about combat in Vietnam and ambushes there indicate that that's not too far off the mark. In situations where one unit ambushed another, often at less than 50 meters, and everyone involved was armed with automatic rifles or light machine guns, it was amazing how few -- if anyone -- was actually hit. It was probably partly due to the fact that it's harder to aim accurately when trying to hide behind something solid at the same time. Also, studies have shown that typically there is one "killer" in each group of 10 soldiers or so who typically accounts for over 90% of the casualties they inflict. So, if all that carries over to the world of cops and robbers, maybe one cop (the one with SEAL experience, probably  ) would actually be aiming and calmly picking off bad guys, while the rest would likely be taking out 2nd story windows while hiding behind cars*.
____________
* Which, if you've watched "Myth Busters", you know will do just about nothing to stop a rifle bullet unless it hits the engine block.


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## silenceiseverything (Oct 8, 2010)

I hate it when books have the "precocious" 3-5 year olds that automatically know more about life than the actual adults do because they are oh-so-mature for their age.  They always have these wise quips that doesn't even register in the minds of the adults beforehand.  I'm sure there are a lot of precocious kids in actual life, but probably not as often as they show up in fiction.  Why not have a 3-5 year old actually act like a 3-5 year old?


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Thalia the Muse said:


> Hahahahaha! That is because celery makes your underwear fall down.
> 
> http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/art1.html


     
Laugh of the week right there. Thank you!


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## joanhallhovey (Nov 7, 2010)

red as a beet, happy as a lark, blind as a bat, quiet as a mouse, mad as a hatter -- not necessarily these but similar types of  cliches and I'm always taken aback when I see them, even in the books of some fellow authors who should know better.  But it doesn't happen too often.  And I'm sure if they had gone through the book one more time, they would found and deleted them. Or the editor should have caught them.


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## J.K. Arauz (Jan 10, 2011)

joanhallhovey said:


> red as a beet, happy as a lark, blind as a bat, quiet as a mouse, mad as a hatter


I was going to comment, "Quiet as a moose? Never heard that before. It sounds original!" Then I realized I'm slow.

Certain names are off-putting if the book isn't in the proper genre. I can understand Starlite McMistyoceans in a fantasy novel. I can accept Rain Raven Nightly in a vampire book (though that is pushing it a bit). But names of a similar flare in romance novels, period pieces, or even modern stories turns it into fanfiction.


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## QuantumIguana (Dec 29, 2010)

When the victim takes down the serial killer, she doesn't finish him off, but instead runs. The serial killer then gets up and kills her. In that situation, it is better to keep beating him until he resembles a can of Alpo.


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## Joel Arnold (May 3, 2010)

I'm loving this thread! 

One of my pet peeves is when a cop is just about to retire and gets pulled into 'one last case' and then at some point mutters, "I'm getting too old for this sh**. "


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## lorezskyline (Apr 19, 2010)

Joel Arnold said:


> I'm loving this thread!
> 
> One of my pet peeves is when a cop is just about to retire and gets pulled into 'one last case' and then at some point mutters, "I'm getting too old for this sh**. "


In a similar mind to this hate it when old criminal / cop whatever goes back to doing there job wife/husband/Gf/Bf doesnt want them to do it and we get loads of emotional scenes about wheter he / she will do one last case or job when we know all along they are going to otherwise there wouldn't be a book just get on with it!


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## EliRey (Sep 8, 2010)

marshacanham said:


> It's the TSTL heroine (too stupid to live) heroine that makes me throw a book across the room. The perky, feisty, beautiful, most sought after girl in all of the city, country, world, who is far past the marrying age for that time period, yet no one seems to call her what she is: a spinster. And when that same perky, feisty, beautiful, most sought after heroine meets the uber sexy, over-sexed, dark eyed scoundrel/beast/hero, she gets all tongue-tied and blushing and constantly trips up or makes basic mistakes so the hero has to save her from her own stupidity.
> 
> Sort of like in the movies, when the background music starts to throb and the heroine goes into the dark, empty house even though she knows there is an axe murderer on the loose.
> 
> ...


Oh man I hadn't had such a good laugh in a long time thanks for that! lol

Only one I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned.

The totally hot, totally hard headed heroine who is clearly into the hot hero, but because she's been burned in the past refuses to believe his interest in her is sincere. No matter how much he tries to convince/show her. She starts to give in then reminds herself why she just can't. The tug of war goes on for more than half the book. Each time he does something new to prove his sincere admiration she begins to give in then brushes it off as just not possible. Makes me wanna just throw the book against the wall!


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

Slate posted this article a while back.

Apparently random dogs barking = no longer appreciated


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## Pawz4me (Feb 14, 2009)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> One thing I've noticed a lot in books, don't know if this is considered a cliche, but people always forget to eat. What's up with that? No matter what kind of story, at some point they'll be saying, "I realized I hadn't eaten since yesterday" or something like that. Really? I never forget to eat (for long periods of time). And if I do, I get all shaky and nervous, so my body tells me.


I read a book several years ago in which the main character, in her first trimester of pregnancy, didn't eat for about five days. She was either just not hungry, too queasy to eat, too tired to eat or too busy to eat. But yet she seemed to have plenty of energy to track down the bad guy. And on just a couple hours of sleep a night.


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## jason10mm (Apr 7, 2009)

TheRiddler said:


> The caretaker / janitor who is wise beyond their years and knows everything about the dark mystery


You know, this one doesn't bother me as much. I bet the janitors in my building know WAY MORE gossip than anyone else becasue all the "regular folk" tend to see right through them and talk about all sorts of stuff in their presence. Plus I bet all sorts of interesting stuff is put in the trash or dropped on the floor.

But yeah, when it reaches the point where the minimum wage servitor actually has a masters in occult arts/IT/ancient languages it streches credibility a bit (though, in todays economy, perhaps not?).


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

My mom reades books that I just can't because the covers kill me.. Handsome, Proud Indian Chief's son rescues/kidnaps/whatever the woman and falls for her. Puh-LEEZE. Shoot me if I ever pick up one of those books.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

On the janitor/caretaker person... I was a bit of a loner in Jr. High, and one of my only friends was Mr. John, the groundskeeper at the school. He had to have been over 60, and had worked at that school for something like 40 years. He would tell me stories about the school/teachers/principal/kids from the 40s & 50s, how things had changed, which buildings had been rebuilt for various reasons etc. Those guys can know ALOT about what's going on, because not alot of people pay attention to them.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

By definition, a cliche merely means that it is overused, not that it is false or unrealistic (though it may well be). So it seems we have two general issues being discussed here: cliches that we hate simply because they are so overused, and those that we hate because we think they are not realistic.

Not that discussing either is not fun, mind you, nor am I sure which aspect the OP meant to concentrate upon; I just felt a need to put my pedant hat on on.


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## TheRiddler (Nov 11, 2010)

Have we mentioned the "love interest that is actually the killer / thief / criminal mastermind etc"?


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## Stephen T. Harper (Dec 20, 2010)

I don't think anyone mentioned these, which is shocking to me because they are my top 2.

1) Despite what nearly every action movie or TV show ever made will tell you, human beings can not hide in or crawl through air conditioning ducts.  This is particulalry true on submarines.  In real life, submarines are cramped and claustrophobic places where every inch of space is precious.  In movies on TV shows, all submarines are built with enormous passageways for circulating air, big enough for Denzel Washington or Richard Basehart to walk around in (not even crawl?!!) with a team of commandoes.

and 2)  In real life, almost no one is named Jack.  Yet in movies, TV, and most thrillers, the hero is almost ALWAYS named Jack.  What are the odds of that?  I honestly believe that there are more fictional characters named Jack than real people.

And if you write a follow up comment that says "Hey, MY name is Jack,"  you may very well be the only one.  In the world.


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## J.K. Arauz (Jan 10, 2011)

STH said:


> I honestly believe that there are more fictional characters named Jack than real people.


LOL! I never realized that until just now. My world's shattered.

There goes my sci-fi protagonist Jack Alden .__.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

STH said:


> ...
> and 2) In real life, almost no one is named Jack. Yet in movies, TV, and most thrillers, the hero is almost ALWAYS named Jack. What are the odds of that? I honestly believe that there are more fictional characters named Jack than real people.
> 
> And if you write a follow up comment that says "Hey, MY name is Jack," you may very well be the only one. In the world.


From Wikipedia:



> In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, "Jack" has been the most frequently used male given name for babies for at least the years 2003-2007.[2][3][4] Looking back through the historical record, the top status for Jack as a male given name is a recent phenomenon. For all of the 19th Century and the first half of the 20th Century, William or John held the title of most frequent male given name.[5] A closer look at London shows that as of 1994 "Jack" was the most popular given name in the city, but does not appear among the top-ten most popular in the preceding 970 years.[5][not in citation given] A survey in December 2008 showed that Jack is the most popular name in the UK for the 14th year running, since it took over from Thomas in 1994.
> 
> According to the United States Census of 1990, "Jack" is an uncommon American given name, the given name for 0.315% of the male population and 0.001% of the female population.[1][6][7] However, the frequency of use of "Jack" as a baby name has steadily increased from the 160-170 rank prior to 1991 to a rank of 35 in 2006.[8]


Doesn't sound all that rare to me, assuming you're writing a book that is taking place in relatively modern times for a British character or contemporary or future American characters. 



> Notable people named "Jack"
> [edit] Television and film
> 
> * Jack Black (born 1969), American actor
> ...


Sorry, I just can't leave such claims unresearched (if we qualify Wikipedia as research  ).


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## Amy Corwin (Jan 3, 2011)

Hey! I like the name Jack. Never used it, but I still like it!

Be that as it may, the cliche I hate the most is one so many romances, particularly historical romances, use. It makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a dull spoon.

A virgin woman decides it's time (for whatever incredibly idiotic reason, most of which make NO SENSE WHATSOEVER) to lose it. 
It's just an excuse to get her in bed quick and keep her there so the writer can have lots of long love scenes and not worry about a plot.

I need say no more.
Or maybe I should say, "No more! Please!"


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

My neighbor's name is Jack.


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

My dad, grandfather and greatgrandfather, and a number of distant cousins are all Jack. We're one of those families that tends to re-use names though. Ha!



NogDog said:


> ; I just felt a need to put my pedant hat on on.


I need one of those!


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## Stephen T. Harper (Dec 20, 2010)

Amy Corwin said:


> Hey! I like the name Jack. Never used it, but I still like it!


I didn't say I didn't like it. I wish my name was Jack.



NogDog said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> Doesn't sound all that rare to me, assuming you're writing a book that is taking place in relatively modern times for a British character or contemporary or future American characters.
> 
> Sorry, I just can't leave such claims unresearched (if we qualify Wikipedia as research  ).


Yes, but discounting all the actors you named (which kind of helps my point), your list of "famous Jacks" has to go back the 1800s just for a handful. And most of them aren't even famous. So mathematically speaking, compared to the general population, I think this research is a strong indication that "almost no one" is named jack.

But when you compare this data to the percentage of leading characters in thrillers, action movies, and TV shows named Jack (which as wikipedia will no doubt verify is very close to 100%), my basic premise holds very true.

Oh, and David McAfee's neighbor is obviously a secret agent. So once again, my point holds.


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## Shayne Parkinson (Mar 19, 2010)

Eep. I have a character named Jack. 

However, as a familiar form of John it was quite common in New Zealand at that period, going by newspaper reports and genealogical records.


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## Stephen T. Harper (Dec 20, 2010)

Shayne Parkinson said:


> Eep. I have a character named Jack.
> 
> However, as a familiar form of John it was quite common in New Zealand at that period, going by newspaper reports and genealogical records.


New Zealand is a different story. It may even be the opposite. Possibly, most people are named Jack there. 

Let me qualify - We'll leave New Zealand, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland out of this.

I was really only talking about American movies, tv shows, and thrillers, featuring fictional Americans named Jack. This of course makes up very close to 100% of the male leads. Which, I maintain is quite strange because, with exception of a few actors, David McAffe's neighbor, most of Stacey HH's ancestors, and some of the people on that wikipedia list, NO ONE here is named Jack.


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## Dennis Coslett (Jan 14, 2011)

STH said:


> New Zealand is a different story. It may even be the opposite. Possibly, most people are named Jack there.
> 
> Let me qualify - We'll leave New Zealand, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland out of this.
> 
> I was really only talking about American movies, tv shows, and thrillers, featuring fictional Americans named Jack. This of course makes up very close to 100% of the male leads. Which, I maintain is quite strange because, with exception of a few actors, David McAffe's neighbor, most of Stacey HH's ancestors, and some of the people on that wikipedia list, NO ONE here is named Jack.


I think I am going to change my name to Jack, just to prove you wrong.

As for cliche:

A handgun bullet will knock the person it hits flying dramatically several feet.

Cops are always crooked and brutal, the private eye is always virtuous.

And as for car chases, there always seems to be a semi-trailer that pulls halfway out into the road and stops, right after the villain drives past it.


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## Rory Miller (Oct 21, 2010)

Along the same lines, last year there were about 150 tv commercial ads in which the husband is an udder fool. Think sonic commercials for example. 
Also in movies the janitors are incredibly insightful..always. 
And after reading this thread all the things we mentioned drive me nuts!


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## StaceyHH (Sep 13, 2010)

STH said:


> most of Stacey HH's ancestors, ... NO ONE here is named Jack.


 

Other than half my relatives, growing up I only knew 5-6 other guys named Jack. One in high school, and the others were friends of my dad, or at church. Did a quick sort on my contacts and client list: 4 more. 

But the name was wildly popular in the 60s, (for obvious reasons) so there are a lot of guys in their mid-40s with the name. It got really popular again around the late 90s-early 00s, who knows why, but you couldn't go into a pre-school or kindergarten class without having a whole bunch of kids who you had to address by their last initial (Jack S., Jack P., Jack L.,)

Not to keep harping, but except for the obvious names like Jennifer and Christopher, people don't generally notice when lots of other people have the same name, unless they have reason - like it's their name, or half their family's. lol


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## Stephen T. Harper (Dec 20, 2010)

StaceyHH said:


> Other than half my relatives, growing up I only knew 5-6 other guys named Jack. One in high school, and the others were friends of my dad, or at church. Did a quick sort on my contacts and client list: 4 more.


Okay I give up. Many, many people are named Jack.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Half my family is named John.  The other half is Michael. 

It works out well at family gatherings though, you know you just have to call for John or Michael and someone will answer. . . .


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

and my son is a John-Michael.  no, really its Garran John-Michael...obvious surname.
in 6th grade there were 8 Michaels in my class, including the teacher. they all went by surname only.
My father, brother, and an uncle on my mom's side are all Michaels, there are 3 Johns, & 2 Jacksons (1 goes by Jack) in our extended family.


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## AnnetteL (Jul 14, 2010)

In YA books when the teen has just moved to a new location and has all the angst of finding new friends and a new life.

The idiot plot others mentioned, when the main conflict could be resolved with a 23-second conversation.

One major peeve: Stereotypes for characters that are intended to fight old stereotypes: So the car mechanic and the doctor must both be female (or at least a minority). The white man is probably bumbling (think of almost every sitcom with married couples--the wife is the smart one and the husband must be put up with). In a lot of stories, the white person is either evil or stupid. (White male? Definitely the bad guy.)

On some TV shows (Star Trek: TNG comes to mind) I could predict tell what the character "twist" based on who played what role. A white person was usually the villain (usually male, but not always). The black/asian/name-your-race person was the hero.

One of my daughters complained about that very thing re: _That's So Raven_ on TV--"All of Raven's friends but one are black, and the white one is dumb as a rock. All the white teachers at school are mean or idiots."

It's refreshing to me to find balanced stories, whether they're in TV, movies, on books. I love being pleasantly surprised when the bad guy AND the good guy could be _anyone_, and I'm left guessing, at the edge of my seat. And that works only when there's no "let's not offend anyone with a stereotype" agenda turned on its head.


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## M.C. Walker (Sep 19, 2010)

...that inspirational novels should go easy on the violence.  It's a tough world out there, so let's tell it like it is.


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## Joseph Robert Lewis (Oct 31, 2010)

1. Robots look like humans, no logical reason provided.
2. Robots think like humans, no logical reason provided.
3. Robots want to be humans, no logical reason provided.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

NogDog said:


> And even if they aren't, all private eyes are constantly hard up for cash. Makes you wonder if they're in the wrong business?
> 
> I just read _Storm Front_, in which Harry Dresden gets hit in the head with a baseball bat, shows obvious signs of a concussion, yet a supposedly experienced police officer just cleans him up a bit and takes him home, instead of to the emergency room.


Try Joseph Hansen's Brandstetter novels which are quite classic. He's wealthy. (Also handsome, loves good food and good music and is gay) He also frequently ends up in the hospital. LOL

Breaks every detective trope there is. I love that series.

Edit: The cliches I hate? 1. The gay guy's lover always dies because they can't end up together. (Not seen as much now but was invariable for many years)

2. If a car goes off the road, it blows up.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

PG4003 (Patricia) said:


> One thing I've noticed a lot in books, don't know if this is considered a cliche, but people always forget to eat. What's up with that? No matter what kind of story, at some point they'll be saying, "I realized I hadn't eaten since yesterday" or something like that. Really? I never forget to eat (for long periods of time). And if I do, I get all shaky and nervous, so my body tells me.


Strange, I also notice that they forget to go to the potty / the little girls'/ the little boys' room. Some bladders!


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## dmspen (Jan 12, 2011)

My least favort cliche is, "That's so cliche!". Most people use it incorrectly.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

Richardcrasta said:


> Strange, I also notice that they forget to go to the potty / the little girls'/ the little boys' room. Some bladders!


I think all bodily functions are simply assumed unless it's necessary to the plot, e.g. Jane eats dinner and develops food poisoning later on. I'm actually okay with missing food/bathroom breaks...sometimes I wish they'd let us assume that the characters changed their clothing as well...

Has anyone else noticed that students never seem to have actual schoolwork? They skip classes willy-nilly and run around sleuthing without finding themselves in a parent-teacher conference for poor attendance and/or failing grades.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

It annoys me in books, TV and movies when everyone is either hot or butt ugly.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

Geoffrey said:


> It annoys me in books, TV and movies when everyone is either hot or butt ugly.


But Geoffrey, that's what real life is like! Haven't you watched any TV?

J/k. It is interesting, though, how even the "plain" characters aren't _really_ plain -- they just dress poorly or don't bother with make-up.


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

Alice Y. Yeh said:


> But Geoffrey, that's what real life is like! Haven't you watched any TV?
> 
> J/k. *It is interesting, though, how even the "plain" characters aren't really plain -- they just dress poorly or don't bother with make-up.*


Then I must be one of those "plain" tv people! I don't wear make up (1st time DH saw me in make up was our wedding day) and right now I'm in sweats and a t shirt


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Alle Meine Entchen said:


> Then I must be one of those "plain" tv people! I don't wear make up (1st time DH saw me in make up was our wedding day) and right now I'm in sweats and a t shirt


You must be like me then - as soon as you dress up, take the time to do your hair properly and manscape (female equivalent: the BIG shave) you're suddenly the cutest chick or boychick at the prom.


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

AnnetteL said:


> On some TV shows (Star Trek: TNG comes to mind) I could predict tell what the character "twist" based on who played what role. A white person was usually the villain (usually male, but not always). The black/asian/name-your-race person was the hero.


I have the same 6th sense you do. The guest star, if you recognise them, always has a similar role and as a result the 'bad guy' or whatever is obvious from the moment they appear.

My pet peeve is with writers and movie makers in regards to physics: bullets knocking people off their feet; people fighting their way through a book/movie without breaking any of the bones in their hands; the attractive female who is more than able to physically battle someone twice her size and not get hurt; etc. It becomes obvious that those involved have never done any research, or alternatively are going for the spectacular over the accurate.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

tim290280 said:


> My pet peeve is with writers and movie makers in regards to physics: bullets knocking people off their feet; people fighting their way through a book/movie without breaking any of the bones in their hands; the attractive female who is more than able to physically battle someone twice her size and not get hurt; etc. It becomes obvious that those involved have never done any research, or alternatively are going for the spectacular over the accurate.


Along these same lines, why do henchmen always have horrendous aim? You think they'd hit the hero/heroine at some point...


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## Chris Northern (Jan 20, 2011)

Swift recovery from concussion always irritates. "Oh, he knocked me out but it's no big deal." Yeah, right. Try it.

My other pet hate in fantasy novels is "X used a long bow for the greater range it provided over a short bow blah blah" which is exactly the opposite of the truth; pound for pound a short bow has greater range. It irks, though it may be and probably is considered trivia by some if not most readers.

Not quite cleche's as such but they do grate on my nerves whenever... maybe best not to me started on this subject so I am stopping right here. Two is enough. I'm done.


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## tim290280 (Jan 11, 2011)

Alice Y. Yeh said:


> Along these same lines, why do henchmen always have horrendous aim? You think they'd hit the hero/heroine at some point...


But if they do manage to hit them it is just a minor 'flesh wound' that the hero/heroine shrugs off as a mere inconvenience. I've had minor injuries that have taken months to heal (not including the recurring problems with scar tissue, etc), let alone a gapping hole in my shoulder or stomach.


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## johnmedler (Feb 1, 2011)

1.  Man and woman who stop to discuss their relationship while villains are chasing them
2.  Villains are terrible marksmen 
3.  There seem to be a lot of skinny women who are really good at karate
4.  Anyone who says "M'lady."


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## Tom Schreck (Dec 12, 2010)

and very thin frail women (or men) can definitely overcome anything with karate...

I used to teach karate. Another cliche is that karate is a secret or a trick that doesn't really need to be practiced...just revealed.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

tim290280 said:


> But if they do manage to hit them it is just a minor 'flesh wound' that the hero/heroine shrugs off as a mere inconvenience. I've had minor injuries that have taken months to heal (not including the recurring problems with scar tissue, etc), let alone a gapping hole in my shoulder or stomach.


"It's just a flesh wound!" :snicker:

Sorry, I saw the reference and couldn't help myself!


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## Budo von Stahl (Aug 31, 2010)

But...but...I like cliches.  They are the meat and potatos of any storytelling.  How they are prepared (set up) and garnished, on the other hand, is how they can become enjoyable.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

Admittedly, it would be pretty boring if books mostly consisted of people trying to find parking spaces, using the bathroom, going to work or watching TV, and whining about lower-back pain, like real life ...


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## James Everington (Dec 25, 2010)

When the police/CSI/whoever use a computer to search through fingerprints/faces/car registrations etc. not only is their computer powerful enough to do this really quickly, it is so powerful it can also display _each and every_ fingerprint etc. on the screen as it searches without the PC grinding to a halt...


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## Will Write for Gruel (Oct 16, 2010)

A book-long cliche I am weary of: First person novels with the narrator being a smartass. This is especially prevalent in hard-boiled fiction, but it finds its way into other kinds too.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

I HATE this cliche:  A friend in need is a friend indeed.  

It just bugs me.  I hate that it has two meanings to it.  It could be that if you're in need and the person is a friend, they're a true friend.  Or it could mean that if a person is in need they'll really want to be friends.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

"But, its a dry heat"

(my first thought is "so is an oven !")

by the way, I work in Death Valley...130 degrees of "dry heat" Ha!


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Ran into one you see all the time both in books and TV/movies: the foreigner who speaks very good English, except for occasionally using his/her native language for the most common words, _when those are the first words you learn when learning another language_. For instance, a French person uses "oui" for "yes", "merci" for "thank you", and "deux" for "two"; when in reality those would be words in English which would give them the least amount of trouble when speaking English.


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## Zackery Arbela (Jan 31, 2011)

Check out tvtropes.com for more on thus subject.

Definitely there with "the clergy are always evil..."

I'd add three others...

cheerleaders are entitled queen bee's plagued by secret self-loathing

Highschool athletes (especially football players!!) are always bullies

Geeks are always wimpy sex-obsessed losers, especially those who play dungeons and dragons 

Is it just me, btw, or do shows like glee trade in these sorts of cliches?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

NogDog said:


> Ran into one you see all the time both in books and TV/movies: the foreigner who speaks very good English, except for occasionally using his/her native language for the most common words, _when those are the first words you learn when learning another language_. For instance, a French person uses "oui" for "yes", "merci" for "thank you", and "deux" for "two"; when in reality those would be words in English which would give them the least amount of trouble when speaking English.


See, I never think of that as a cliche -- more a device to make it clear to the reader that this person is using a different language.


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> See, I never think of that as a cliche -- more a device to make it clear to the reader that this person is using a different language.


Sure, that's why it's done, but that's essentially why most cliches are used: they are an easy "out" for the writer. But now that I've brought it to your attention, it will bother you from now on just as it bothers me.


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## Chris Barraclough (Jan 25, 2011)

English people are always ridiculously posh AND evil, even if they first appear to be good. Apparently we're a nation of tea-swilling butler-botherers who plot world domination in our weekends.

Well, maybe there's some truth in it...


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## TheRiddler (Nov 11, 2010)

Zackery Arbela said:


> Is it just me, btw, or do shows like glee trade in these sorts of cliches?


Sure they do - most teen drama shows do.

Take Buffy.

Willow, science geek, uber smart, no friends
Cordy: head cheerleader, queen bee, cow
Most of the football team are bullies

etc

It works becuase that is what people are used to at school

At least Glee has the decency to know it is full of cliches


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

In film and TV, telephone answering machines that play out loud to a lone character in the room. Does anyone even have one of these machines anymore?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

Mike McIntyre said:


> In film and TV, telephone answering machines that play out loud to a lone character in the room. Does anyone even have one of these machines anymore?


Hmmm...not sure what you mean: my answering machine/phone plays any messages out loud to me whenever I push the messages button, and I'm usually the lone person in the room when I do that? Am I missing something?


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## Thalia the Muse (Jan 20, 2010)

Or do you mean that it plays the audio while it's recordng the message? Our machine does that -- that's how I decide whether I want to pick up the phone!


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

me too.


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## Geoffrey (Jun 20, 2009)

Zackery Arbela said:


> cheerleaders are entitled queen bee's plagued by secret self-loathing
> 
> Highschool athletes (especially football players!!) are always bullies
> 
> Geeks are always wimpy sex-obsessed losers, especially those who play dungeons and dragons


Did you go to my high school?


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## J.K. Arauz (Jan 10, 2011)

Thalia the Muse said:


> Admittedly, it would be pretty boring if books mostly consisted of people trying to find parking spaces, using the bathroom, going to work or watching TV, and whining about lower-back pain, like real life ...


...this just gave me a great idea for a short story.


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## KerylR (Dec 28, 2010)

This is a variation on the misunderstanding plot.  The MC or Villain suddenly drops 30 IQ points to keep the story going.

Deathly Hallows is probably the most famous recent example of this.  Almost half of the MCs were secretly lobotomized between HBP and DH.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

"Well...at least he lived a long life"

(I've never understood how that is supposed to be a comforting statement...)


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## Jen Bluekissed (Jan 22, 2011)

Mine:
1. Erotic romance has no plot
2. Romance is boring
3. DNA results come back from the lab within the same day or week
4. The hero in a romance is always an alpha male.  
5. Serial Killers don't have jobs or unsuspecting neighbors family members who live with/near them
6. That kids are never the end result of an erotic tryst in erotic romance and erotica (I try very hard to break this cliche in my own writing)
7. Protagonists who are writers
8. The protagonist never has a boring 9 to 5 job (or if s/he does, it never seems to get in the way of being the hero)
9. Only laughable characters are overweight
10. Cooking never takes time out of the heroine's life



I share most of yours that I've listed below.


Certain cliches drive me nuts.

Here's some of my pet peeves:

1. FBI agents are ALWAYS overly officious and stupid
2. All private eyes are either hard drinkers or in recovery from alcoholism
3. Cops never can express their feelings
4. Rich people are always crooked
5. Rich housewives are usually involved in swinger clubs or prostitution
6. Punches and karate chops always render people unconscious but never seriously hurt them
7. Clergy are almost always evil
8. Profiling always works
9. Everyone knows how to shoot a gun accurately
10. There's always a seat at the bar, a table at the restaurant and no traffic

Yours?


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

My pet peeve: villains who were abused as children. Been done too often.


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## Tom Schreck (Dec 12, 2010)

I love the one about the British and the one about foreign language--and I never thought about either though they are prevalent...what does that have to say about cliches in general?

Why do we miss them?


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## TR Montressor (Feb 5, 2011)

My favorite (for a certain definition of favorite)?

1. Character X is described as a genius and then fails through word or action to demonstrate this in any way. See any supervillian ever.   
2. The plucky young gel who outsmarts the established (older, male, learned) experts on a basis of... well, I don't know. Pluck. 
3. Ignoring a blatantly obvious solution.
4. Any plot driven by the protagonist being too stupid to live.


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## matt youngmark (Jan 11, 2011)

Chris Northern said:


> Swift recovery from concussion always irritates. "Oh, he knocked me out but it's no big deal." Yeah, right. Try it.


That's mine, too -- or on the flip side, when the hero hits someone on the back of the head and they immediately fall unconscious. Even boxers who get knocked out usually get right back up again, and if you pass out for any length of time from a blow to the head, chances are that you're bleeding internally and need immediate medical attention.

Still, it's so embedded in TV and film culture that I never even gave it a second thought until someone pointed it out to me -- and non-lethal sedation is such a convenient and necessary plot device, I'm not going to claim that as a writer I've never used it. Okay, I vow that from now on all my characters are either highly trained martial arts experts, or carry a rag and chloroform with them wherever they go. SOLVED.


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## Tom Schreck (Dec 12, 2010)

I've boxed for years and in the last 18 months or so I've taken some big shots...3 times they hurt and left symptoms for a week or more...

Getting punched, chopped etc in the head is no joke...


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## Cheryl Shireman (Feb 11, 2011)

This is more of a movie cliche than a book cliche - but I hate it in movies when they show a woman running from someone, and invariably falling down, in high heels. EVERY woman knows that the first thing you would do is take off those shoes and give them a toss! Unless, of course, they were very expensive shoes, and then you would tuck them under your arm as you made your escape.


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## NotActive (Jan 24, 2011)

content


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## SpearsII (Jan 16, 2010)

I can't believe I have missed this thread till now. 

Me and my wife always complain about the 21st century post-modern character that is dropped right into historical fiction. The character of course believes the medieval Church was..well..evil, Kings are not as important as the rights of individuals, sexuality should be free and that all women are oppressed by their station in life, no mater what that station was. Sheesh drives us nuts. Oh yeah, and everyone in the middle ages was dirty all the time.


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## fancynancy (Aug 9, 2009)

mattposner said:


> I am really fed up with the cinematic "slacker-striver" romantic comedies in which the man is a slacker because he doesn't know what to do with himself and is kind of a klutzy loser, while the woman is a hardworking corporate type who puts up with his bumbling until he finds himself.


I know what you're saying, but I can think of at least 4 real life couples I know who fit this stereotype to an extreme. I think what's most interesting is that I know about these couples because people talk about them, but who ever talks about a couple where the guy is the hard-working corporate type and the woman doesn't do much? Apparently not so gossip-worthy.


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## KerylR (Dec 28, 2010)

SpearsII said:


> I can't believe I have missed this thread till now.
> 
> Me and my wife always complain about the 21st century post-modern character that is dropped right into historical fiction. The character of course believes the medieval Church was..well..evil, Kings are not as important as the rights of individuals, sexuality should be free and that all women are oppressed by their station in life, no mater what that station was. Sheesh drives us nuts. Oh yeah, and everyone in the middle ages was dirty all the time.


This is a problem I often find with historical romance.

Apparently in romancelandia there were hordes of liberated feminist types and men who were willing to give up everything to love them.

There are times and places where you can carefully fit a post modern character and not have him be a glaring mistake. (Certain periods of Roman history, certain bits of Athenian history, bits of the Enlightenment, and so on...) I'll believe a fictionalized romance between liberated, post modern members of Mary Wollstonecraft's inner circle. Try to sell the same story to me in Puritan Salem, and no, I'm not buying it.


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## DavidRM (Sep 21, 2010)

I watched "The Machanist" last night. I've decided the movie represents a cliche that irritates me (it's all a dream/I'm hiding the truth to myself/untrustworthy narrator-main-viewpoint/Jacob's Ladder). My son (17) put it this way, "If we hadn't already seen a whole lot of movies just like that, this one would've been pretty good." I disagreed. I remember enjoying Jacob's Ladder. And Fight Club. And the last episode of M*A*S*H. And...

-David


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## Dennis Coslett (Jan 14, 2011)

Cheryl Shireman said:


> This is more of a movie cliche than a book cliche - but I hate it in movies when they show a woman running from someone, and invariably falling down, in high heels. EVERY woman knows that the first thing you would do is take off those shoes and give them a toss! Unless, of course, they were very expensive shoes, and then you would tuck them under your arm as you made your escape.


I have to agree with you. It stems from the fact that characters in movies seem to have zero survival instincts. In reality, I agree, a woman would presumably know enough to lose the shoes.


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## Klip (Mar 7, 2011)

What a fun thread 

The one's I can think of now that irritate me most, and have not already been mentioned ( I think?) Most of these are movie or TV clichés though.

How do you know somebody is obsessed and crazy? Why not have a look in his bedroom. You'll find he has drawn or written all over the walls, preferably stuck up a lot of newspaper clippings and photographs and usually all done in black and red. 
No matter how successful the private eye / detective cop is, superior cops never seem to remember the previous success, and refuse to trust their judgement.
Brave dogs always die in a sad and heart wrenching manner 
If an animal needs to get tortured to show how evil the villain is, it will usually be a cat. 
If somebody has a large aquarium, they are probably planning to take over the world/develop a super weapon.


I also hate watching car chases. It really bugs me that there must be so many people who get hurt and killed in all those pile ups and overturned trucks, cranes, supertankers etc, mown down by cars driving on pavements etc but somehow that is completely unimportant to the hero or the plot.


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## Dennis Coslett (Jan 14, 2011)

Has anyone mentioned the cliche that, if the person in question responded to a classified ad, the newspaper will always be open to the classifieds, with that particular ad always brightly circled in red.

"The room stank of cordite." Raymond Chandler started this one, and Private Eye writers who don't know better keep it alive. Cordite is a British bullet propellant, and the U.S. has never used it. The British armed forces don't use it anymore, as it is obsolete. Chandler learned about it from his service with the Canadian military in WWI.


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## GayleC (Feb 16, 2011)

All I know is, I want to live in a world where:

There is always a parking space in front of anyplace I want to visit.
All I have to do is order "a beer" and the bartender knows which kind I want.
Everything costs even dollars and I always have the correct amount.
All of my friends are witty, good-looking, and I only have to spend 28 minutes with them a week.


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