# Library eBooks



## mikefox (Mar 5, 2009)

Is there a way to get public library eBooks to run on the Kindle?


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I bought a Sony Touch to read library books.  Others here have bought a Nook, and from reading their posts, the Nook might be the better deal.  On a Sony you can only read one format at a time.  It's frustrating.  But it doesn't bother me a lot as I only have two or three library books on it at a time anyway.
deb


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

There is no way to open library books without fiddling with the DRM, and we don't give instructions for that on this board.


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## mikefox (Mar 5, 2009)

Could you give me a gentle nudge in the right direction?  I'm not trying to cheat anybody--just read a book I've already down loaded from the library.  It's a real pain to read it on a computer.  How do the Touch and the Nook do it?
[email protected]


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

I load library books into the software that came with my Sony.  I then transfer it to the reader.
It's the formatting on the books that keeps them from being read on the Ks.
deb


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Sonys and the nook are supported by Adobe Digital Editions, which is used as the DRM for library books.


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## mikefox (Mar 5, 2009)

Would be such a big deal to add that capability to the Kindle?  Can Amazon address this?


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

mikefox said:


> Would be such a big deal to add that capability to the Kindle? Can Amazon address this?


Amazon is not in the business of selling Kindles. They are in the business of selling ebooks. If library books are a primary concern of anyone who is buying an ebook reader, the Kindle is not the right choice for them.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

It would be a big deal.  Most ereaders can't handle epub and mobi at the same time.  I have a choice with my Cybook Opus, but once I chose to update the software with epub, I haven't had the option of using it with mobi.  (I could get the mobi update but then I wouldn't be able to use epub).

Amazon isn't about to change all their ebooks to epub format.  Their proprietary format is the reason that many people won't buy a kindle.


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## stormhawk (Apr 29, 2009)

Library ebooks seem to present enough of a hassle that I don't feel compelled to want them. There is enough free content available to keep me happily reading, and I consider the freebies to be defraying the cost of paid books ... so If I read one free and then one paid, I only feel like I'm paying $4.995 for the paid one. Yes, I know that this is a longish and somewhat silly attempt to justify paying for a book, but I look at the cost of my Kindles (yes, I'll be a three kindle household soon) in the same way.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Stormhawk, I don't think that's a long for silly attempt to justify at all.  For the longest time I was keeping a spreadsheet and tracking how much I spent.  At one point my books averaged $2.37 each.  And that was adding in the cost of my K1 and accessories.  
deb


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## Tom Diego (Jun 30, 2010)

mlewis78 said:


> Amazon isn't about to change all their ebooks to epub format. Their proprietary format is the reason that many people won't buy a kindle.


Amazon wouldn't have to change all their e-books to ePub format, they would merely have to add support for ePub to their firmware. The hardware is capable of displaying whatever you tell it to. The firmware tells it what to display.


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## angelmum3 (Sep 12, 2010)

Actually couldnt the converse be addressed?  ie, shouldnt Kindle owners be proactive in asking the libraries to support the Kindle ereaders


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

angelmum3 said:


> Actually couldnt the converse be addressed? ie, shouldnt Kindle owners be proactive in asking the libraries to support the Kindle ereaders


I'm not sure I've got this right, but I don't think the libraries can simply choose to support the Kindle. Amazon has to allow the books to be loaded onto the device. 
Anyone with more knowledge have an answer?
deb


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

Libraries have some mobi-formatted ebooks, but the DRM makes it impossible to read on kindle.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

mlewis78 said:


> Libraries have some mobi-formatted ebooks, but the DRM makes it impossible to read on kindle.


More accurately: it's against Amazon's terms of service to manipulate the Kindle software so as to be able to display the library books. . . . . .


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## marcclarke (Sep 24, 2010)

pidgeon92 said:


> Amazon is not in the business of selling Kindles. They are in the business of selling ebooks. If library books are a primary concern of anyone who is buying an ebook reader, the Kindle is not the right choice for them.


Ahem! I just got done paying money to Amazon.com for my Kindle 3. Amazon.com most assuredly IS in the business of selling Kindles. They just sold one to me. Amazon.com charged my card and has my money (and hopefully my K3 will ship to me soon).

I would very much like to have the ability to check out e-books from my library to my Kindle 3.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

macclarke, welcome to Kindleboards.  
Many of us would love to be able to add library books.  But Amazon has made the decision to not allow that feature.  
It was frustrating for me personally because I love supporting my library.  So I picked up a Sony ereader just for library books.  Quite a few of our members have picked up a second reader for library books.  My Sony has paid for itself, and did so in just a few months.  
deb


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## jlmwrite (Sep 29, 2010)

Yes, Amazon sold you your Kindle but it's the old razor-and-blade marketing theory. Give away (or sell at a discounted price) the razor then make up the profits on the blades. Look at Gilette; a new Fusion with a blade is less than $7, but blades are close to $3 each! You will keep buying Fusion blades as no other blades fit. Another way to think of it is what cell phone providers do: they take a huge loss on the phones but more than make up their hardware loss by tying you into 2 years of service.

Amazon is doing exactly the same thing. Your Kindle hardware probably is sold to you at cost (or maybe still at a loss, depending on what Amazon paid for the R&D). But they know you will come back to them to buy books in your Kindle's format (AZW or MOBI). That's how they are really making their money from you.

If you have public domain or other non-DRM protected books, a great free program named 'calibre' can convert the book to MOBI format so you can read your book on your Kindle. Don't forget it can also display several other formats as well for your personal documents.

As for library books, though, the EPUB format has emerged the king for public libraries across the US. Some may have a few in MOBI format, but Adobe Digital Editions and Overdrive -- which support the DRM used on these ebooks -- are what allow you to "check out" books from the library and to have them automatically "returned". I sincerely doubt that the entire US library system is gonna listen to Kindle owners who want to check out books.

As another poster has alluded, it _is _possible to defeat the DRM so a library book can be converted to MOBI format -- but that is against the terms of service from Overdrive, your local library and anyone with a conscience. I don't think anyone here is willing to point you in that direction.

With that said, I strongly support the right to convert an ebook (or anything else) you have PURCHASED as long as it's for your own use, and not to share with anyone else. On the other hand, I also support my local library by not stripping the DRM and converting it anymore than I would have photocopied a book when I was in high school.


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## marcclarke (Sep 24, 2010)

We seem to have entered the Land of Logical Fallacies, specifically the Non-Sequitur and the Proof-by-Repeated-Assertion.

I'll float one of my own.  I shave with a straight razor (really), therefore, Amazon is in the business of selling Kindles.  Q.E.D.

OK, now that we have all visited the Land of Logical Fallacies, we'll come back to the Land of Reasoned and Logical Argument.

I am old enough to remember having received free Gillette razors.  Note the key word "free".  The idea was that I would then buy non-free razor blades to go into my Gillette razor.  Again, please note the word "free".  

If Amazon were not in the Kindle business (as well as the e-book selling business) then Amazon would have given me my Kindle 3 for FREE, just as Gillette used to give me razors for free.  (Yes, this was a long time ago.)

That Amazon SELLS me a Kindle at their cost (a premise you are going to have to back up with actual facts, not simply Proof-by-Repeated-Assertion), their "generosity" does not therefore mean that they are not in the business of selling Kindles.  This contention is a Non Sequitur Logical fallacy.  Amazon SOLD me a Kindle.  I PAID my own real hard-earned money for it.  Amazon did not give me a free Kindle (not by a long shot).  Therefore, Amazon is indeed in the business of selling Kindles.  They sold me a Kindle for money.


Stiuplated that Amazon is also in the business of selling e-books.  That Amazon is in the business selling e-books in no way leads to the conclusion that Amazon is therefore somehow NOT in the business of selling Kindles.  Amazon is indeed (demonstratedly) in the business of selling Kindles.  They sold me one.

If Amazon were to give away Kindles for free, then I would concur with your contention that Amazon would therefore not be in the business of selling Kindles.  

Amazon sells Kindles.  Therefore, Amazon is in the business of selling Kindles.


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## emalvick (Sep 14, 2010)

Literally, Amazon is indeed in the business of selling Kindles, but they do have a secondary motive and that is selling books.  They have the K4PC, iPad, Android, Blackberry, etc apps that show how much they want to sell the books.

However, I do think there is some profit to the Kindle itself.  Afterall, how would Target, Best Buy, etc sell Kindles at the same price as Amazon if there wasn't some profit already.  These Brick and Mortar retailers aren't going to sell them for no profit themselves unless Amazon is selling them at an even bigger loss to those retailers (admitedly that is a possibility) than what they sell to their consumers directly.

The other reason I think there is a profit involved in the Kindle is that there is too much free content available out there, including Amazon's store, that they would want a profit from the device alone.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

drenee said:


> macclarke, welcome to Kindleboards.
> Many of us would love to be able to add library books. But Amazon has made the decision to not allow that feature.
> It was frustrating for me personally because I love supporting my library. So I picked up a Sony ereader just for library books. Quite a few of our members have picked up a second reader for library books. My Sony has paid for itself, and did so in just a few months.
> deb


I've only had my nook for a couple of months, and I'm already 1/3 of the way to it's paying for itself with library downloads (I'm tracking it, just out of curiosity). I have yet to spend any money on B&N eBooks (now called NookBooks) - I have a handful I paid for from Sony & Kobo - but the vast majority of the books on my nook were freebies from all 3 sources.

Of course my Kindle has paid for itself in free downloads as well, just not library books.


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## RandomizeME (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't know how it is with other libraries, but on the New York Public library, the waiting lists for popular eBooks are pretty long. Basically, the only eBooks that are available immediately are the really old books. I tried being patient, but I ended up just buying the books I wanted to read or just placing a request for the hardcovers since the waiting lists for those seemed more reasonable. And many books I wanted wasn't even available as an eBook.

*I had been thinking of buying another reader dedicated to library books, but given my experience, didn't seem to warrant spending the money.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

RandomizeME said:


> I don't know how it is with other libraries, but on the New York Public library, the waiting lists for popular eBooks are pretty long. Basically, the only eBooks that are available immediately are the really old books. I tried being patient, but I ended up just buying the books I wanted to read or just placing a request for the hardcovers since the waiting lists for those seemed more reasonable. And many books I wanted wasn't even available as an eBook.
> 
> *I had been thinking of buying another reader dedicated to library books, but given my experience, didn't seem to warrant spending the money.


It depends on how many people use that particular library and how well "stocked" that library is. One of the libraries I use has horrid wait times like 53 people waiting and one copy of the book.... However, another library has 6 copies of that same book and only 30 people on the wait list. And my super secret Navy General Library has pretty much everything available.. If I have to put something on hold, there are rarely more than 1 or 2 people on the list. Look at your library and see how many people are waiting for The Help... The Navy General...0 waiting. I also got Fall of Giants on release day.

I honestly could be very happy reading from library books alone... If I could just read them all on my Kindle without jumping though hoops

** disclaimer, the Navy General Knowledge Library is for active/retired Marine/Navy/Coast Guard and their dependents. It's free and Easy to sign up for if you're eligible and they're really working at getting more than just war and spy books added in. They added about 400 new books last week. My wish list is insanely long!


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

And sometimes a wait list that looks really long actually goes faster than you'd expect - that's how sometimes you end up with 3 or 4 books suddenly becoming available all at once.  People either take them off hold or return them early or do whatever, but I've been surprised at how often what seemed like it would be a long wait was actually quite short.  And I'm not in that big a hurry to read anything in particular - I can always wait for a hold to come around.


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## mlewis78 (Apr 19, 2009)

I once thought that the NYPL waitlists were impossible, but I'm doing pretty well there now.  I keep a wish list and even have some on it that are available, but I'm not ready to read them yet.  I was on a long list for Tony Blair's book and it only took a week to come up.  I only read 200 pages though -- maybe others before me did the same -- and then turned it back.  They have several copies of some titles and just one for some others.  I don't read only new books, but I don't borrow any of the public domain titles that are free elsewhere.


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## Meemo (Oct 27, 2008)

Luvmy4brats said:


> ** disclaimer, the Navy General Knowledge Library is for active/retired Marine/Navy/Coast Guard and their dependents. It's free and Easy to sign up for if you're eligible and they're really working at getting more than just war and spy books added in. They added about 400 new books last week. My wish list is insanely long!


I'm glad you mentioned the Navy General Library again, I'd checked for an Air Force version when you first mentioned it and there is one, but there wasn't a lot there so I didn't pursue it then. But I just checked again and sure enough, they've added a lot of books recently and some are definitely interesting to me. So next time I'm out at the base I need to go by and get hooked in to it (can't sign up online).

Because the one who dies with the most eBooks wins....


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

If your local library doesn't offer ebooks (and you don't have military connections, etc.) is there a way to get ebooks from a different library?  I've thought about getting an ereader for library books, but since they aren't available locally, it seemed pointless.


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## luvmy4brats (Nov 9, 2008)

Free library of Philadelphia and Fairfax County Library offer non resident cards for a small fee ($17-25.. I think) . They have a great selection of books and the fee is worth it.


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks!  I'll definitely look into it.


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## colinmcc (Apr 3, 2011)

I too wish my local library's ebooks were readable on my Kindle3. (I'm very happy with the Kindle BTW ) .. I also take issue with my municipal council's engineering dept that has all the maps and plans of our streets, sewers etc freely available on the 'net, but in a format that only can be read using [email protected] Internet Explorer and Windoze..

Being a wise bunny, I use Ubuntu/Firefox and, thus a facility I pay for with my taxes is un-available to me! (I've spoken to Mac users who report the same thing...) 

IMHO Public, tax payer funded services should be, by law, made available to all taxpayers, not just those who pay 'extra' for the privilege!


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## SusanCassidy (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm curious, what format does Internet Explorer use that other browsers don't?  Are they using IE-specific JavaScript or something?


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## Lysis_and_Isis (Aug 13, 2010)

drenee said:


> I bought a Sony Touch to read library books. Others here have bought a Nook, and from reading their posts, the Nook might be the better deal. On a Sony you can only read one format at a time.


This bit is perplexing. Does this mean you can only load one format into your Reader's library at a time and is the limitation you're describing still present in current models?

People on mobileread have raved about custom firmware for Sony Readers. Have you tried it and, if so, does it have the same limitation?

Personally, I much prefer the look and feel of the Sony Readers to the Nook; I also find the Nook's color UI below the black and white screen distracting. If there were a compelling reason to choose the Nook over the Sony readers for library books, I'd love to know about it now. The absence of Wifi is already a step down.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Lysis_and_Isis said:


> This bit is perplexing. Does this mean you can only load one format into your Reader's library at a time and is the limitation you're describing still present in current models?


No, they finally fixed it in the current models. My Sony 300 had the problem, my Sony 950 does not. Why Sony refuses to update the software on the older models I will never understand.


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## drenee (Nov 11, 2008)

Thank you for answering the question for me.  I did not have the answer.  I do wish Sony would upgrade the software.  It would make my Sony perfect.
deb


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## mscottwriter (Nov 5, 2010)

My library system uses Overdrive in order to loan e-books.  The program works exceptionally well on my iPad, but I  haven't figured out how to make it work on my daughter's Kindle.  But it is so fun to check out e-books.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

mscott9985 said:


> My library system uses Overdrive in order to loan e-books. The program works exceptionally well on my iPad, but I haven't figured out how to make it work on my daughter's Kindle.


It won't work on your daughter's Kindle.


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## mscottwriter (Nov 5, 2010)

> It won't work on your daughter's Kindle.


Seriously? Well, that stinks! Thanks for telling me, though, or who knows how long it would have taken for me to figure out it wouldn't work!


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## mamculuna (May 11, 2011)

I understand that Kindle will be able to access books from public libraries (according to Jay Marine--see http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1552678&highlight=) "later this year." Does anybody know anymore about when this will happen?


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

mamculuna said:


> I understand that Kindle will be able to access books from public libraries (according to Jay Marine--see http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1552678&highlight=) "later this year." Does anybody know anymore about when this will happen?


Since there was a fairly well publicized announcement when they were just saying it's coming, I expect there will be something pretty big once it actually happens. 

Late August would make sense to tie it in to the new school year. . . .but until they announce it, no one really knows.


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## stormhawk (Apr 29, 2009)

Shortly after the next software update would be my guess.

I am wondering if they'll back-support the K1, K2, and KDX with updates for this feature.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

According to the press release (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1552678&highlight=), once implemented, library lending will be available on "any Kindle device or free Kindle app for Android, iPad, iPod touch, iPhone, PC, Mac, BlackBerry, or Windows Phone."

I'm guessing they're tying their DRM and Overdrive's together somehow. . . .


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