# Minor rant on bookbub pricing...



## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Ok, I have to ask this because every time I go to the site and look up the prices, expectations, etc I get caught up on the prices, which seem seriously inflated and like bad business to me. (Obviously they can't be, or they wouldn't be so popular right?) but is it just me who thinks that paying that much for advertising one book is insane?

Sure, you sell a lot of books, not everyone, but most of you I am thinking, but you are truly just giving the books away to get a lower ad price and then skimming the surface to (hopefully) get back what you paid for the advertising and you can't tell me they deserve such a huge cut for their work when WE are the ones writing the books.. they could easily half those prices and still make a killing so what true short or long term benefits do you guys get out of this?? Is it really that effective of a system?


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

I've had three 99 cent Bookbubs. All three made back their money within the first week. That doesn't include long-term sellthrough to the rest of the series. I'll take a Bookbub, at the prices they charge, any day of the week.


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## wilsonharp (Jun 5, 2012)

Pandorra said:


> Is it really that effective of a system?


Yes.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

Pandorra said:


> Ok, I have to ask this because every time I go to the site and look up the prices, expectations, etc I get caught up on the prices, which seem seriously inflated and like bad business to me. (Obviously they can't be, or they wouldn't be so popular right?) but is it just me who thinks that paying that much for advertising one book is insane?
> 
> Sure, you sell a lot of books, not everyone, but most of you I am thinking, but you are truly just giving the books away to get a lower ad price and then skimming the surface to (hopefully) get back what you paid for the advertising and you can't tell me they deserve such a huge cut for their work when WE are the ones writing the books.. they could easily half those prices and still make a killing so what true short or long term benefits do you guys get out of this?? Is it really that effective of a system?


Why would BookBub charge less than they're able to charge?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I don't have any figures to hand, but for price per download, Bookbub beats all other advertisers hands down. I've never had one that didn't pay for itself, sometimes on the actual day of the ad.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Cassie Leigh said:


> I've had three 99 cent Bookbubs. All three made back their money within the first week. That doesn't include long-term sellthrough to the rest of the series. I'll take a Bookbub, at the prices they charge, any day of the week.


But how long do the ads run and is it that effective for the majority? The prices do seem like a lot to me, my books haven't even come close to making that without advertising so it's not just me putting money i've made back into it, that's all out of pocket.. and while I have faith in my writing, investing so much in one go seems like insanity.


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## D A Bale (Oct 20, 2016)

I've done a free worldwide and a .99 international.  Both made back the investment within a few days (and the sell-through on my free was phenomenal!!).  I'm still enjoying the benefits of sell-through now on my recent .99 international on a fourth book in a series.  Would I pay those prices if given the chance again?  Absolutely!


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

What if you can't do free or 99, do you still think that would be a valid expense?


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I wonder how effective a free one is if you don't have a series. My books are all totally different (except Leon).


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

I wouldn't advertise a standalone, unless it was part of a set of at least similar books. For me Bookbub is all about the sell-through.


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm surprised they're not charging more. According to the 'sorry' email they keep sending me, only 20% of people who apply actually get a bookbub.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Bookbub is hands-down the most bang for your advertising buck. They could charge more, and it would still be worth it. The longer the series, the better the return.


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## starkllr (Mar 21, 2013)

Simon Haynes said:


> I'm surprised they're not charging more. According to the 'sorry' email they keep sending me, only 20% of people who apply actually get a bookbub.


There's no way they accept 20% of the people who apply these days, at least if what I see from other authors both on here and on FB is any guide.


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## Used To Be BH (Sep 29, 2016)

I have heard a few people complain that their BB promotion didn't have a positive ROI--but very few. The vast majority have the same response as indicated here. 

To me, it's not about how much an ad costs. If the ad is expensive but has a positive ROI, I figure I've made a net gain.

I have yet to get a Bookbub, but if I were accepted, I'd be thrilled.


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## D A Bale (Oct 20, 2016)

Pandorra said:


> What if you can't do free or 99, do you still think that would be a valid expense?


I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. I doubt most indies would ever get a slot for a Bub above .99, so free (in a series) and .99 are usually the open options for we lowly subjects in the publishing realm. Are you thinking of applying for something priced higher than that? Standalone?


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## katewrath (Jul 9, 2018)

The last Bookbub ad I had in 2016 literally bought me a new car.  Like *bam*, new car.  Based on that, my answer is a whopping "hell, yes".  I have been trying to get another one ever since and had no luck until just recently (and coincidentally my permafree is on Bookbub today.)  It is ranked #15 in the free store as I type this.  10,868 downloads and counting.  Follow through sales so far today have already recouped about 1/3 of the ad cost.  (This is reviving a series that I let slide for a couple of years due to personal stuff that took me away from my writing, so the sales previously were negligible).  Today's sales are mostly people who haven't even read the book yet and just automatically purchased the whole series.  Those will pick up as people read the book.

I have led up to this ad with other smaller advertisers this week, but they have not done a lot for me.

Last time I had a Bookbub ad, I think I had two less books in the series, so there is more sell-through potential now.  That said, I have really great sell-through on my series, except for my prequel which sadly, does not get the attention it deserves.  I also have two more books in another series, so it will be interesting to see if that picks up.  

Sell-through is key, here.  You also have to have a good cover, which it looks like you do.  The more books you have, the better. 

But short answer is, if you can get your hands on a Bookbub deal, take it and run.


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## Megan Crewe (Oct 8, 2015)

I've had four BookBub deals across the past 2 years. All of them made back what I spent on them within the first 24 hours with significant profits beyond that. Three of those were standalone books, so that profit was without any sequels to sell through to. (All were at 99c.) BB is the only promo site I've ever used where I can count on 2-4 sales the day of per $1 spent, whereas I haven't found any other that will consistently get me even 1 sale per $1.

So, yeah, it's totally worth it. Why would it be better to spend $50 and get 25 sales than to spend $500 and get 1500 sales?


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## Marti talbott (Apr 19, 2011)

I agree, the prices are shocking. However, I went from making barely over $3k a month to $6k a month after a Bookbub, and it's still paying off. The book in question is the first free in four related series (the MacGreagor family saga, 35 books total). I also lowered my prices, so that helped. Wish I'd thought of that sooner.

They charge what the market will pay, and I'm willing to pay it when I can too. By the way, these books are wide, so I'm not sure it would be worth it for Amazon only. I've never tried that.


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## Psyche27 (Oct 13, 2012)

The first time I paid about $400 or so to advertise a permafree first in series with two other books in the series priced at $3.99, for the next few days, I was earning about $2,000 a day on Draft2Digital(Itunes and Barnes & Noble), for about 10 days straight after the Ad. For me, Bookbub is it. Nothing else comes close. Not my mailing list, not Facebook, not any other kind of advertising. If you write in series and have a decent sell through, Bookbub is a must.


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## boba1823 (Aug 13, 2017)

D A Bale said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. I doubt most indies would ever get a slot for a Bub above .99, so free (in a series) and .99 are usually the open options for we lowly subjects in the publishing realm. Are you thinking of applying for something priced higher than that? Standalone?


Are the higher priced slots (e.g. $1.99, $2.99) more competitive such that indies aren't as likely to be accepted? Or do you just mean that you doubt most indies would apply?

I haven't applied for a Bookbub yet - haven't got around to setting up through iBooks just yet - but when I do, I'd planned to discount to $2.99. I was hoping maybe that was easier to get, lol, though mostly I just hate the idea of discounting any more than that.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.
Many formally active members now participate in discussions here.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Megan Crewe said:


> Why would it be better to spend $50 and get 25 sales than to spend $500 and get 1500 sales?


Exactly.

Also, I do know of one self-published author who has done well with them with non-99 cent or free options. And with a standalone. Mitty Walters. Maybe he'll chime in here. (But note that the ads get more expensive the higher your pricepoint.)


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

boba1823 said:


> Are the higher priced slots (e.g. $1.99, $2.99) more competitive such that indies aren't as likely to be accepted? Or do you just mean that you doubt most indies would apply?
> 
> I haven't applied for a Bookbub yet - haven't got around to setting up through iBooks just yet - but when I do, I'd planned to discount to $2.99. I was hoping maybe that was easier to get, lol, though mostly I just hate the idea of discounting any more than that.


People who sign up to Bookbub's mailing list are looking for bargains. Many indie books are full-priced at $2.99, so $1.99 is not going to be that much of a deal for them.


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## Megan Crewe (Oct 8, 2015)

Marti talbott said:


> By the way, these books are wide, so I'm not sure it would be worth it for Amazon only. I've never tried that.


Two of my BB deals have been for books that were Amazon exclusive, and they earned back the cost within 24 hours just like the wide ones did. You get a surge in KU borrows and reads that offsets what you might have gotten for wide sales.

It's a lot harder to get a deal in the first place if you're exclusive, though. I've only managed it for my YA books. My adult pen name books I've applied MANY times and still no go, even though they're more popular books with more reviews etc. *shrugs*


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

This is basically me when they send me the acceptance email:


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## D A Bale (Oct 20, 2016)

Lydniz™ said:


> This is basically me when they send me the acceptance email:


THIS!!! So absolutely this.


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## John Hunter (May 11, 2018)

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing -- Ads shockingly expensive, have a deep backlist, a long series, avoid standalones...Got it.

I just applied for my BB Author Profile today. Curious where this rabbit hole leads...


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## boba1823 (Aug 13, 2017)

Lydniz™ said:


> People who sign up to Bookbub's mailing list are looking for bargains. Many indie books are full-priced at $2.99, so $1.99 is not going to be that much of a deal for them.


Right, I wasn't thinking about typical price points for indies, lol. I price mine higher 

Do you have any idea whether BB is more/less likely to accept e.g. a $2.99 discounted book (as long as that's 50% or more regular price) vs. the lower price points? They have the option on their pricing page, but I couldn't stay subscribed to their emails for more than a week so I don't know how often they actually feature books at the higher price points.


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

I've had 16 Bookbubs. My first was in May of 2015, when the book was still with an indie publisher. The other 15 were for self-published editions of books. I have never had a negative ROI. I have absolutely had disappointing results--basically, every international BB is disappointing--but always made back my money.

I've done $0.99 and $1.99. I'm planning on a Free one this year, if they give me one, but I can't speak to those. I've done first-in-series books, second-in-series books, one anthology, and standalones. My most successful book was a standalone when the BB ran, and it earned back the cost of the promotion in 12 hours.

it's worth it.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Just adding another _yes_ vote: Bookbub is absolutely worth every penny, every time. I don't recommend free if you can't count on sell-through, but just keep applying at 99 cents. There are things you can do to make your entry more competitive, but the single biggest factor is applying constantly. When you get the rejection, put the earliest day you can reapply on your calendar and DO IT. Do this for every book you would want to have a Bookbub for. Bookbub's tail isn't what it used to be, but it's still absolutely worth it.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Megan Crewe said:


> Two of my BB deals have been for books that were Amazon exclusive, and they earned back the cost within 24 hours just like the wide ones did. You get a surge in KU borrows and reads that offsets what you might have gotten for wide sales.
> 
> It's a lot harder to get a deal in the first place if you're exclusive, though. I've only managed it for my YA books. My adult pen name books I've applied MANY times and still no go, even though they're more popular books with more reviews etc. *shrugs*


Were the two books that were Amazon exclusive free for the BookBub? Did you earn money on the KU borrows for those books, or for sales of the rest of the series?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

John Hunter said:


> Interesting read. Thanks for sharing -- Ads shockingly expensive, have a deep backlist, a long series, avoid standalones...Got it.
> 
> I just applied for my BB Author Profile today. Curious where this rabbit hole leads...


As I understand it, also best to have full-length novels.

Now that I'm going wide, I intend to start applying again.


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## Megan Crewe (Oct 8, 2015)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Were the two books that were Amazon exclusive free for the BookBub? Did you earn money on the KU borrows for those books, or for sales of the rest of the series?


No, they were 99c. I haven't had a free BB yet. One of them was a standalone, so I earned money on the 99c sales and borrows, and the other had three books to sell/borrow through to.

For the standalone I did a Countdown deal and was making 70% royalties on the sales, which helped. I wouldn't have broken even in the first day if I'd only been getting 35%.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

I wondered about the stand-alones, I would love to advertise my compendium but don't have a clue if that could be done with bb or not .. or if it even should be... the rest of my books, the next in series are all coming out soon and it's time for me to start looking at the real costs of advertising, BB is the one always praised highly but it is the furthest from my reach because of the cost.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Megan Crewe said:


> No, they were 99c. I haven't had a free BB yet. One of them was a standalone, so I earned money on the 99c sales and borrows, and the other had three books to sell/borrow through to.
> 
> For the standalone I did a Countdown deal and was making 70% royalties on the sales, which helped. I wouldn't have broken even in the first day if I'd only been getting 35%.


Thanks. That's useful to know.


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## Trioxin 245 (Dec 29, 2017)

To be honest I thought this was a tongue in cheek post when I first read it. But seeing you have over 1k post, you have been here awhile. To your post, ".. I get caught up on the prices, which seem seriously inflated *and like bad business to me*." Your statement shows that you have not the slightest clue about business. That is not a jab at you but a wake up call. You operate a business and it would help you immensely to start reading books on the topic.


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## FelissaEly (Jan 15, 2017)

I wasn't sure if I should say anything because ultimately I feel a little embarrassed that the book performed the way it did on its 99 cent BookBub day (July 11th). The estimated 'average' sales is 1900 and we fell WAY below that average (the book in question is wide and the first in a series). We sold 547 across all platforms.

I'm sure we didn't do as well because the blurb isn't the greatest (it has been changed many times) and it is very much a love it or hate it kind of book, and after reading a few other BookBub posts here it seemed like we should've tried for the free route first. 

Here we are a week later and I think today we'll actually earn out the ad. So thankfully not a loss, but it was a lot to pay up front for a semi-disappointing run (I mean who am I kidding, we haven't sold that many books in a long time, that part is awesome, I guess we were just hoping for more!)

On the plus side my husband's gotten a few more BookBub followers + mailing list sign ups.

Even with the not so grand outcome would I do it again? Probably. Lol.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Trioxin 245 said:


> To be honest I thought this was a tongue in cheek post when I first read it. But seeing you have over 1k post, you have been here awhile. To your post, ".. I get caught up on the prices, which seem seriously inflated *and like bad business to me*." Your statement shows that you have not the slightest clue about business. That is not a jab at you but a wake up call. You operate a business and it would help you immensely to start reading books on the topic.
> 
> _Edited to match Trioxin 245's alterations to their own post. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


Making sure that I am investing my money where it will do the most good hardly shows a lack of business sense asking questions of the people who use the system. The ROI for this is an important qualifier for this type of advertising and the costs associated with it and I would appreciate not being treated like a child. Please refrain from any such comments in this post.. or take it to pm...

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

So ... my most recent Bookbub feature was for the first book in a 7-book series. It ran in the Humor category. Thus far it has made over 12K USD (it ran on June 11). 

And that's why complaining and ranting about their prices is silly.


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

FelissaEly said:


> I wasn't sure if I should say anything because ultimately I feel a little embarrassed that the book performed the way it did on its 99 cent BookBub day (July 11th). The estimated 'average' sales is 1900 and we fell WAY below that average (the book in question is wide and the first in a series). We sold 547 across all platforms.
> 
> I'm sure we didn't do as well because the blurb isn't the greatest (it has been changed many times) and it is very much a love it or hate it kind of book, and after reading a few other BookBub posts here it seemed like we should've tried for the free route first.
> 
> ...


Was your Bookbub on a series book? If so, have you run it through Michael Cooper's sell-through calculator? You might have made back more than you think.


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## Ted Cross (Aug 30, 2012)

My sci-fi is a stand alone (so far) and it did well with its BB. It was number one in its category for three days on Amazon. I'm sure others do better, but I was thrilled with that. Didn't have anything to sell through, of course, but I still made a good amount from it, far more than I paid. I had another International Only BB and it also made money.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Bookbub can make the difference between a $2K month and a $10K month.

Free books do better on Bookbub, but even a 99-cent ad is better than no Bookbub at all. Whenever Bookbub offers me ad space, even if it's for a book I wasn't originally planning on discounting, I grab it. 

I've rarely heard of a BB ad that didn't make a profit.


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## Trioxin 245 (Dec 29, 2017)

Pandorra said:


> Making sure that I am investing my money where it will do the most good hardly shows a lack of business sense asking questions of the people who use the system. The ROI for this is an important qualifier for this type of advertising and the costs associated with it and I would appreciate not being treated like a child. Please refrain from any such comments in this post.. or take it to pm...
> 
> _Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


I didn't realize, "which seem seriously inflated and like bad business to me," was a question. It came off like a statement.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2018)

Pandorra said:


> Is it really that effective of a system?


Yes. The problem is most indies look at total price and never consider ROI. Bookbub delivers the best/most effective return per download/sale of ANY other advertiser. I maintain my own data and a Bookbub ad and the ROI on a freebie is 20x cheaper than the next advertiser (which is ENT for my books).

Total cost is deceptive, "cheap" advertisers are actually way more expensive than Bookbub because you need to consider the cost of each download/sale.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Trioxin 245 said:


> I didn't realize, "which seem seriously inflated and like bad business to me," was a question. It came off like a statement.


Flip the coin, for an author making the investment it could be just that... it wouldn't be the first or last place that took advantage of indies trying to struggle through the process... and in my experience, the cost of presenting a perfect book in the ways of covers/editing/arcs and advertising can amount to far more than a book is worth even in its prime... it would be LESS than wise to _not_ ask if your book rates that kind of attention and if you are following the right path or being cuckolded would it not?


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## FelissaEly (Jan 15, 2017)

lilywhite said:


> Was your Bookbub on a series book? If so, have you run it through Michael Cooper's sell-through calculator? You might have made back more than you think.


Yep, first book in a completed 5 book series (third book from the left in my sig). I know there's been sell-through on every platform except iTunes and B & N.

And my google doesn't seem to be working, I can't find anything regarding the Michael Cooper sell-through calculator, I'd be interested to see it though!


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## lilywhite (Sep 25, 2010)

Okay, I just checked and it's publicly linked at the SFFMP website here: http://www.marketingsff.com/2017/08/

So the direct link is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o-u_fGpiI1Framp2_KIEymnbzRf6fWiVyyYKWOpaDb0/edit#gid=1975942045

It's useful to know your series' read-through percentage, because if there's a sharp drop-off, you can see where you might have a problem, which is great. But the most powerful thing about this spreadsheet is the bottom section, which will calculate for you (based on your price and read-through percentages) exactly how much any person picking up Book 1 is worth to you. It's invaluable for figuring out what your actual break-even ROI is for Book 1 when you know some people go on to buy more books.

I first saw this in his book Help My Facebook Ads Suck, which you can buy on Amazon. I don't get any kickback or anything (I've never even met Michael), but it is a REALLY good resource, and I figure if the spreadsheet helps you it's a good way to throw him a few bucks.


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## ID Johnson (Apr 27, 2017)

I had my very first Bookbub on Monday (7/16) and it was international only (because that's what they offered) which is much less expensive and it paid out on the first day. Yesterday was a good day, too, and while today is a lot slower, it's definitely better than my average day. If one isn't inclined to invest a lot of money at first, you can always apply for just international and see how it goes. I am in agreement with others, however, that there's no such thing as a bad Bookbub.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Thank you for sharing that lily, that helps!


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## FelissaEly (Jan 15, 2017)

lilywhite said:


> Okay, I just checked and it's publicly linked at the SFFMP website here: http://www.marketingsff.com/2017/08/
> 
> So the direct link is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o-u_fGpiI1Framp2_KIEymnbzRf6fWiVyyYKWOpaDb0/edit#gid=1975942045
> 
> ...


Nice, thank you


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

How do the international ads work? Does anyone have experience with them they are willing to share? That seems like it would be a smart way to start with a lower price then work your way up once you understand the system a bit more and make sure it works to your satisfaction and that you are focusing on the right books..


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Pandorra said:


> How do the international ads work? Does anyone have experience with them they are willing to share? That seems like it would be a smart way to start with a lower price then work your way up once you understand the system a bit more and make sure it works to your satisfaction and that you are focusing on the right books..


In my experience you don't get the same results from an international one. The US ones are the one to aim for. That's why they cost so much, because they give the best results.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Lydniz™ said:


> In my experience you don't get the same results from an international one. The US ones are the one to aim for. That's why they cost so much, because they give the best results.


I wouldn't mind moderate results, even a loss at that rate, if it helped me understand the system before throwing in so much all at once. I have some time before my series are finished anyways, but I would love to have a plan in place before then.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Pandorra said:


> I wouldn't mind moderate results, even a loss at that rate, if it helped me understand the system before throwing in so much all at once. I have some time before my series are finished anyways, but I would love to have a plan in place before then.


I've only had one, and I didn't make a loss, but I didn't get the spectacular sell-through. I think other people have done very well with them though.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Pandorra said:


> What if you can't do free or 99, do you still think that would be a valid expense?


Why can't you do $0.99?


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Why can't you do $0.99?


Shayne, at the time I was looking for a way to promote my compendium in their religion/spirituality section and it has a minimum set price since it is fully illustrated and I have to cover that cost.. .99 cents wouldn't touch that so I would have to go up if I wanted to try it with that book .. I am not sure it is the best choice for a bb with what I am seeing here, however, so you guys saved me from a mistake there as well..


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

The word "troll" is not allowed here.



Edit: The post where the word appeared has been amended by its author, so I've removed my direct address to that person and my quotation of their post. I'll leave what's left as an FYI for newer members.


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## ID Johnson (Apr 27, 2017)

Pandorra said:


> How do the international ads work? Does anyone have experience with them they are willing to share? That seems like it would be a smart way to start with a lower price then work your way up once you understand the system a bit more and make sure it works to your satisfaction and that you are focusing on the right books..


My book is historical romance. It cost $108 for my promo, which ran in Canada, the UK, Australia, and India. The average sales for my genre is 360. I have sold 353 and expect to hit 360 by the end of the day. Most of that came on the day the ad ran. My book is usually 2.99, and it is wide. I changed it to 99 cents on all platforms in all four of those countries. Most of my sales have come from the UK on Amazon. The other two books in the series have also had good sales, so I've made probably at least three times what I spent in the first 2 1/2 days and expect the tail to be at least a week or two. I hope that helps. I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone might have while it is fresh in my mind. I saw a couple great posts about international Bookbubs in the days leading up to mine but not a whole bunch of them. You can PM me if you want. I would say, just apply and see how it goes.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

ID Johnson said:


> My book is historical romance. It cost $108 for my promo, which ran in Canada, the UK, Australia, and India. The average sales for my genre is 360. I have sold 353 and expect to hit 360 by the end of the day. Most of that came on the day the ad ran. My book is usually 2.99, and it is wide. I changed it to 99 cents on all platforms in all four of those countries. Most of my sales have come from the UK on Amazon. The other two books in the series have also had good sales, so I've made probably at least three times what I spent in the first 2 1/2 days and expect the tail to be at least a week or two. I hope that helps. I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone might have while it is fresh in my mind. I saw a couple great posts about international Bookbubs in the days leading up to mine but not a whole bunch of them. You can PM me if you want. I would say, just apply and see how it goes.


Thank you so much and congrats on your bb and sales, that's awesome! Was this a single book or one of a series and if single, have you ever tried it with a series or know if certain books/genres do better internationally than others?

ETA: I don't have the bb list for international sales, looking it up now.


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## ID Johnson (Apr 27, 2017)

Pandorra said:


> Thank you so much and congrats on your bb and sales, that's awesome! Was this a single book or one of a series and if single, have you ever tried it with a series or know if certain types of do better international than others?


Thank you! I'm hoping this will help me get a US Bookbub next. Mine was book one in a series that has a prequel and a sequel. (The prequel is advertised as book 0). I've sold 41 copies of the prequel (at .99) and 18 of the sequel (which is priced at 3.99) and both were in Kindle Unlimited until today so the page reads were also good. (I took the prequel wide today.) I don't know for sure but would imagine a series would do better because of read through, and Bookbub tends to take wide books more than Amazon only from what I can tell. I've applied several times before and got this one as soon as I took it wide.


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## Fel Beasley (Apr 1, 2014)

Pandorra said:


> Ok, I have to ask this because every time I go to the site and look up the prices, expectations, etc I get caught up on the prices, which seem seriously inflated and like bad business to me. (Obviously they can't be, or they wouldn't be so popular right?) but is it just me who thinks that paying that much for advertising one book is insane?
> 
> Sure, you sell a lot of books, not everyone, but most of you I am thinking, but you are truly just giving the books away to get a lower ad price and then skimming the surface to (hopefully) get back what you paid for the advertising and you can't tell me they deserve such a huge cut for their work when WE are the ones writing the books.. they could easily half those prices and still make a killing so what true short or long term benefits do you guys get out of this?? Is it really that effective of a system?


Short answer: Yes

Long answer: The reason they do deserve such a huge cut is because they've cultivated a subscriber base that actually buys (or downloads). Bookbub is probably the only promo site that can create a positive ROI on a 99 cent book without sell-through.

How can they? Because of their subscribers. And those subscribers don't come free. It takes money to build a list that continues to perform. (If you run your own list, you probably are aware of the dangers of stagnation.)

It might seem like a large amount, but the work isn't sending out an email with your book in it. It's much, much more.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

HopelessFanatic said:


> Short answer: Yes
> 
> Long answer: The reason they do deserve such a huge cut is because they've cultivated a subscriber base that actually buys (or downloads). Bookbub is probably the only promo site that can create a positive ROI on a 99 cent book without sell-through.
> 
> ...


I can imagine it isn't easy but at that price it almost seems to swallow the authors profit and take 90% or more, or that's what it seemed like when I was getting random bits of info here and there.. and that doesn't seem very reasonable to me .. even if it was a set rate such as offering a percentage of your earnings so they had as much at stake in it as you did, that would make sense to me (if there success rate wasn't so high) .. I am just having a hard time with the idea of a huge expense with no real guarantee it will even work. The author accounts here help bolster my courage but still, wow .. I am a pretty careful spender lol .. and that comes from years of budgeting for the basics.. don't hate me for asking questions to quell that fear a bit. I am sure they do a lot of work, but that still has to be at least a 200-300% profit margin in exchange, if not more.


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

The thing is that Bookbub is not only covering the costs of maintaining and growing their subscriber base, they also have to pay their staffing costs, and Bookbub have a much more active curation of who they promote than other advertising sites. They analyze their lists and carefully select the books they think will be most successful. (Part of the reason their subscriber base is so active in downloading and buying. And I think the vast majority of their author customers are very grateful they don’t take a profit percentage! Not that I have any idea how they would do that even if they wanted to.)

Of course they’re not infallible, but I think that’s why you hear so few stories of Bookbubs that flopped. (And even the one reported here expects to make back their cost.) So while I would never advocate anyone spending money they really can’t afford on any aspect of publishing, I do think when it comes to Bookbub, it’s not so much about the author taking a risk or learning how the system works for their book, it’s about getting accepted in the first place. And that’s hard to do. If your book isn’t likely to appeal to their list, then it’s also unlikely to get selected. And they have far more data to make that call than any of us. So my advice for anyone who can possibly afford it is to start applying.


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

Pandorra said:


> I was looking for a way to promote my compendium in their religion/spirituality section and it has a minimum set price since it is fully illustrated and I have to cover that cost.. .99 cents wouldn't touch that so I would have to go up if I wanted to try it with that book .. I am not sure it is the best choice for a bb with what I am seeing here, however, so you guys saved me from a mistake there as well..


Not to derail the thread but I do think that list-based promos like Bookbub Features, Bargainbooksy/Freebooksy, ENT, Robin Reads, etc. work best for books that fall cleanly into categories. So a high-heat contemporary romance will do well with any of those sites. But a contemporary romance bordering on women's fiction set in the 90's won't do as well and may fail with those sites. So if you're just starting to consider advertising, you need to take a good long look at what you've written and ask yourself if it fits neatly into categories or not and whether the reader for that type of book is going to be looking for discounted books. If not, then it's better to look at pay-per-click ads like Bookbub's CPC ads, Facebook ads, and AMS ads. It sounds to me like that book you were thinking of advertising may do best with some sort of click-based advertising instead. (Good thing about Bookbub is that because they so heavily curate they'll save you from yourself. They want successful ads. Other sites will let you run any book you're willing to pay to run that looks good. I've been burned that way with my non-fiction.)


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

JRTomlin said:


> The BB people will look at it and decide what category they think it should go in as well. If they don't think it would do well in a category, they won't run it in that category. I have a novel I've been consistently suggesting for one category and having them tell me had to go in another for two years. &#129315;


Did their suggestion work out?


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' said:


> Did their suggestion work out?


That's a great question .. lol


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

Pandorra said:


> Ok, I have to ask this because every time I go to the site and look up the prices, expectations, etc I get caught up on the prices, which seem seriously inflated and like bad business to me. (Obviously they can't be, or they wouldn't be so popular right?) but is it just me who thinks that paying that much for advertising one book is insane?
> 
> Sure, you sell a lot of books, not everyone, but most of you I am thinking, but you are truly just giving the books away to get a lower ad price and then skimming the surface to (hopefully) get back what you paid for the advertising and you can't tell me they deserve such a huge cut for their work when WE are the ones writing the books.. they could easily half those prices and still make a killing so what true short or long term benefits do you guys get out of this?? Is it really that effective of a system?


Why in the world would BB cut their prices in half, if they are providing value for money at the current prices? They're not a charity. They are a business--with shareholders. If you were a shareholder, would you want them to slash prices and cut your investment return by half, just for...what? Why?

As an author, would you cut your book prices in half for no particular reason?

Bottom line, BB has people begging them to promo their books, and people lining up to give them money--because the payoff is a positive ROI.

Your saying their prices are seriously inflated is completely wrong--have you priced a publicist or a professional AdSense service lately? Start at 4 figures and the sky's the limit. BB prices are a bargain. That's why people are beating down their doors.

_Edited. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. - Becca_


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

JRTomlin said:


> It's scary. I was one of their early customers before they were the big dogs in ebook marketing when their promotions didn't cost a lot of money. The first one I bought later nearly gave me a heart attack. I don't care what their profit margin is. It's none of my business. What matters is my ROI and it is a healthy one.


That would have been way worse but I am glad it worked for you .. you're right it shouldn't matter but for me it kind of does.. a lot of people simply can't afford those options and it takes away what seems like the only good resource out there for them.. which can make or break any business regardless of how good what they have to offer may be. But I hardly have to approve of the method in order to agree that I may have no other choice, as some have already said, business is business. If I am ever in a position to change it, however, I will.


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## H.C. (Jul 28, 2016)

Pandorra said:


> I wouldn't mind moderate results, even a loss at that rate, if it helped me understand the system before throwing in so much all at once. I have some time before my series are finished anyways, but I would love to have a plan in place before then.


My only BB was international only (more than 2 months ago) and I STILL attribute the sales I'm getting daily across multiple vendors in the UK, Australia, and Canada to that BB. I would say I have had 300%+ ROI.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Herefortheride said:


> My only BB was international only (more than 2 months ago) and I STILL attribute the sales I'm getting daily across multiple vendors in the UK, Australia, and Canada to that BB. I would say I have had 300%+ ROI.


^^^ *there is no clapping icon I can find but thank you herefor!!! I think I will start there and build it as my courage builds lol .. (and hopefully my savings) and gratz that's a great return!


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## Romancer (May 22, 2016)

BookBub could charge double and it would still be worth it. My best BookBub made me $30k over 3 months from sell through. My “worst” one still made me a couple thousand dollars.

I usually make back my money in a day. One time I made it back within a couple of hours. This is in romance of course which makes a difference, but still. Absolutely worth it.


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## ID Johnson (Apr 27, 2017)

Lorri Moulton said:


> Thank you for sharing your results, ID.


Sure!


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Romancer said:


> BookBub could charge double and it would still be worth it. My best BookBub made me $30k over 3 months from sell through. My "worst" one still made me a couple thousand dollars.
> 
> I usually make back my money in a day. One time I made it back within a couple of hours. This is in romance of course which makes a difference, but still. Absolutely worth it.


It sounds like it is a good investment if it is a series and in certain genres, I was hoping to find out a bit more about international and listing stand alones and if going over the suggested .99 would be a major detriment to the ROI or if anyone had ever tried it for a unique book. My compendium falls into a very specific category, that isn't an issue but since it IS a stand alone and cannot be sold below a certain price I am wondering if bb is the way to go, I have seen people question the validity of AMS and FB is always breaking and for me it is not easy to use due to my vision... I have already started trying different avenues but I would love to be able to get back to my writing and not marketing 7 hours a day, so the question still stands as to what genres work and if stand alones have any success.


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## archaeoroutes (Oct 12, 2014)

I've had one BB so far. A 99c all areas one. Cost $500-odd. Made that back in the first few hours. Went on to earn many times that in the next couple of days. Even months later, the positive effect is still noticeable.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Megan Crewe said:


> No, they were 99c. I haven't had a free BB yet. One of them was a standalone, so I earned money on the 99c sales and borrows, and the other had three books to sell/borrow through to.
> 
> For the standalone I did a Countdown deal and was making 70% royalties on the sales, which helped. I wouldn't have broken even in the first day if I'd only been getting 35%.


Hi Megan,
If you did a BB with a countdown deal, which BB option did you use? I believe countdown deals are only available in the US and UK.


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## archaeoroutes (Oct 12, 2014)

Let's say they run 10 books a day. That's 300 a month. If we guess $500 as the average fee per book, that's $150000.
G
There are 103 BB employees listed on LinkedIn. Do that makes a monthly wage of $1500. But that's before any expenses are taken off, or any company profit.

Obviously, lots of guesswork in my numbers, but hopefully a useful way to think of it when comparing to some of the solo outfits.


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## Avis Black (Jun 12, 2012)

I would look very hard at the categories you write in and the average sales BB claims they get per category.  

BB used to give an average range for books that were sold via their site, not just an overall average, but they've done away with that.  I remember looking at the numbers, and anything priced higher than 99 cents saw a big dropoff in sales, so average-wise, the sales numbers for books priced higher than 99 cents aren't going to warp the average that BB reports very much.  I would go with their estimates to decide whether an ad with them would get a reasonable return or not.  

For example, BB claims a contemporary romance book averages sales of 2730 copies, so if this is 99 cents a copy, you'd make 955 dollars.  Their ad for 99 cents in that category is 882 dollars.  That's a small profit.  A very important question is, do you have anything other than the advertised book that would appeal to buyers in your chosen category?  If you don't, your sell-through to your other books may be small and though you may make a profit, it may not be much.

If you want to do a Bookbub, but are worried about money, I'd wait until your books have netted the amount of cash equal to the type of BB buy you want to make.  Bank the money as it comes in, then wait.  When you get the sum, go ahead and try Bookbub.  If you break even, you're not out anything.  If you do better, that's fine.  If you do worse, I would expect you to still make at least half to the majority of your original investment back, so it wouldn't be too much of a disaster.  But I absolutely do not recommend digging into household funds to finance a BB if your cash is tight or if your financial situation is at all precarious.  Don't spend your rent money hoping to hit the jackpot with the notion that the jackpot would bail you out of your financial hole.  

By the way, I regard BB's reported subscriber numbers with great skepticism.  I looked at the numbers of subscribers they claimed to have for their various categories not long after they formed as a company, and frankly, I didn't think they had enough time to acquire so large a subscriber base.  I also find it hard to believe that a category like contemporary romance, with 2,140,000+ reported subscribers, only gets an average of 39,700 downloads even for a free book.  Where'd all their other subscribers go?  Romance readers happen to be especially voracious, and they'd love to have a free book.  Yet they keep not showing up for them, as do the readers in all their other categories.  In contemporary romance, only 1.85% of their subscribers ever bothers to download freebies.  I suspect BB's actual subscriber base is more like 1/10th of what they report.


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

On the topic of Bookbub's numbers, does anyone know what the Bookbub average downloads are supposed to represent? Is it the number of sales directly from the Bookbub email/website tracked by them via their affiliate links? Or is it the total number of sales? And, if so, does it only count sales on the day of the Bookbub, or for the next day as well, or for the length of time you've reported the book is going to be discounted and it's therefore still up on their site?


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## VanessaC (Jan 14, 2017)

Pandorra said:


> I wondered about the stand-alones, I would love to advertise my compendium but don't have a clue if that could be done with bb or not .. or if it even should be... the rest of my books, the next in series are all coming out soon and it's time for me to start looking at the real costs of advertising, BB is the one always praised highly but it is the furthest from my reach because of the cost.


Looking at this from another angle (not sure anyone else on the thread has mentioned this) - are you signed up to Bookbub as a reader? It might be interesting to sign up for the categories you write in and see how the books do.

As part of my ongoing research as I start out self-publishing, I've signed up for a couple of the promo newsletters and Bookbub always stands out. In the genres I follow (mainly fantasy) the books are usually free / 99p, so it's a total no-brainer for me to get a book I like and (for me) a great way of trying a new author / series. Might explain why I now have such a huge "to be read" pile on my kindle.

I'm not ready for it yet, but Bookbub is top of my list of places to go for promos in future, even with the up front cost, and that's both from the author side (reflected in comments on this thread) and from a reader's perspective.

Whatever you decide, best of luck.


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## boba1823 (Aug 13, 2017)

Avis Black said:


> By the way, I regard BB's reported subscriber numbers with great skepticism. . . . I also find it hard to believe that a category like contemporary romance, with 2,140,000+ reported subscribers, only gets an average of 39,700 downloads even for a free book. Where'd all their other subscribers go? Romance readers happen to be especially voracious, and they'd love to have a free book. Yet they keep not showing up for them, as do the readers in all their other categories. In contemporary romance, only 1.85% of their subscribers ever bothers to download freebies.


People probably don't look through every Bookbub email, especially after they have been subscribed for a while. And some likely sign up using secondary (or even disposable) email addresses so they don't clog up their main email's inbox - and perhaps just forget to keep checking it after a while.

I signed up for the BB newsletters, selecting all the Romance categories, and lasted about a week before unsubscribing. They send an email _every day_. Which seemed fine - I wanted to keep up on what was new in the genre - until I fell a few days behind and saw what a chore it was becoming.

Also... not all Romance readers are willing to read just _anything_ that is shoved in their faces. Even if it's free. Frankly, I thought the average quality of the BB Romance features was a bit low. Especially the free ones. Granted, I'm picky. But still - it's hard to imagine the average BB subscriber downloading every free book in their selected categories every single day.


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## Rick Partlow (Sep 6, 2016)

I've had two BookBubs, one international-only, one US.  Both were 99 cent deals and both made their money back in a day.  
Both were also in KU.


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## Megan Crewe (Oct 8, 2015)

Jan Hurst-Nicholson said:


> Hi Megan,
> If you did a BB with a countdown deal, which BB option did you use? I believe countdown deals are only available in the US and UK.


I selected only US and UK when I applied (you can select individual international territories if you want). The way you'd do that now is to select All for Regions and then uncheck everything except US and UK under Pricing.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

Megan Crewe said:


> I selected only US and UK when I applied (you can select individual international territories if you want). The way you'd do that now is to select All for Regions and then uncheck everything except US and UK under Pricing.


Thanks. I didn't know you could do that.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Thank you guys, I think that makes a lot of sense and as I mentioned before, I think leaving the compendium out and just following the original plan of my normal first in series would be the best option.. that one is priced at 1800 for a bb... though I would love to give the compendium a whirl through international at least once sometime after the others are out... and yeah, for me I am okay with home funds but not grand and there aren't any savings left from mth to mth.. so digging into pocket for a bb would hurt badly, if not be impossible, but I could  borrow it against a return if I was more confident in the results, which I prefer to avoid unless it was my other series. I'm sure you can see why I want all the boxes checked with the best chance for a return when that is my only real option...


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## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

Pandorra said:


> Thank you guys, I think that makes a lot of sense and as I mentioned before, I think leaving the compendium out and just following the original plan of my normal first in series would be the best option.. that one is priced at 1800 for a bb... though I would love to give the compendium a whirl through international at least once sometime after the others are out... and yeah, for me I am okay with home funds but not grand and there aren't any savings left from mth to mth.. so digging into pocket for a bb would hurt badly, if not be impossible, but I could borrow it against a return if I was more confident in the results, which I prefer to avoid unless it was my other series. I'm sure you can see why I want all the boxes checked with the best chance for a return when that is my only real option...


I know the conversation has been about whether or not it makes sense financially, but I just want to throw in that even if you have all the money you need to pay for one, you still have to be accepted for a BB promo, which is a rare thing. I bring this up because a new loan to pay for a BB might not be feasible. An advance against existing credit? Sure.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

GeneDoucette said:


> I know the conversation has been about whether or not it makes sense financially, but I just want to throw in that even if you have all the money you need to pay for one, you still have to be accepted for a BB promo, which is a rare thing. I bring this up because a new loan to pay for a BB might not be feasible. An advance against existing credit? Sure.


I wouldn't be going through a bank lol .. I would just ask a friend.


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## MajesticMonkey (Sep 3, 2013)

Last two promotions (for different books) I only hit about 65% of the average amount of sales for the genre, both times (which sucks), but still made my investment back.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2018)

I'll add some input from the book promoter side of things

Mostly responding to some interesting points authors have brought up

1) Yes, Bookbub is almost always worth it. Almost everyone who runs with them makes their money back. Even for authors who promote with us, when they ask who else to work with we always put Bookbub #1 on list of recommending other promo sites

2) Just my 2 cents - taking a loan or spending money you don't have is strongly not recommended. While Bookbub will most probably make back that money, if you get into the habit you will find that pretty much everyone else (including FB Ads, AMS Ads, Bookbub CPC Ads, etc.) will not make you back your money. So you're starting a habit that will get you into a ton of trouble

3) Lots of interesting points in Avis Black's post so will answer a few of them



> I would look very hard at the categories you write in and the average sales BB claims they get per category.
> 
> For example, BB claims a contemporary romance book averages sales of 2730 copies, so if this is 99 cents a copy, you'd make 955 dollars. Their ad for 99 cents in that category is 882 dollars. That's a small profit. A very important question is, do you have anything other than the advertised book that would appeal to buyers in your chosen category? If you don't, your sell-through to your other books may be small and though you may make a profit, it may not be much.
> 
> ...


4) This is splendid advice - If you want to do a Bookbub, but are worried about money, I'd wait until your books have netted the amount of cash equal to the type of BB buy you want to make. Bank the money as it comes in, then wait. When you get the sum, go ahead and try Bookbub.

******* The next points are very critical. We have studied all these figures and I'll give you an explanation of how this stuff works

5)


> By the way, I regard BB's reported subscriber numbers with great skepticism. I looked at the numbers of subscribers they claimed to have for their various categories not long after they formed as a company, and frankly, I didn't think they had enough time to acquire so large a subscriber base.


A) Bookbub started advertising VERY HEAVILY on Facebook. They started early 2012 and by early 2013 had 1 million+ readers
At the time Facebook was just 5 to 10 cents per click, sometimes less. And free books were used as the 'lead magnet' to get people to sign up

Getting 1 million in a year is very possible
We're adding 1 million+ a year now. In much tougher times. when most channels are saturated. So adding 1 million in 2012 when people didn't use FB ads that much is very doable

I was extremely skeptical too - as they seem to have come out of nowhere

However
2011 end - Pixel of Ink and eReader News Today had to follow Amazon Affiliate rules and limit to 5 to 10 free books a day
2013 beginning - Amazon kicked free book sites out of affiliate program if they were generating too high a percentage of free books (as compared to book deals - it had to be at least 20% paid book sales - which is sort of impossibleif you consider figures)

That gave the opportunity to certain sites to grab all the readers leaving all these sites that were no longer showing many free books

THAT is how/why you have Bookbub with 13 million or so readers now (and us Books Butterfly with 8 million)
Amazon literally gifted those readers to Bookbub and to us by nuking the earlier promotion sites that were their affiliate partners

One of their co-founders has sold two companies, one for $13 million or so and the other for $30 million. His share must have been at least $5 to $10 million
So they had the money
Their other co-founder had an Apple blog and might have had good money too

Spending $300,000 or so in 2012 to gain 1 million readers. Very doable + after MUCH research I couldn't find a single red flag
It's all real readers as to all the evidence and data we could find

* Keep in mind that I was used to 2009 and 2010 when Kindle Nation Daily had 30,000 email subscribers and that seemed completely impossibly high. So a site having 1 million+ email subscribers. We did a lot of research to figure out how/why it grew so fast and it is most probably combination of FB being low cost and very smart/fast reader acquisition from Facebook Ads

They also had an affiliate program ($1 per reader) that they closed down. Though I suspect some version of that is why HuffingtonPost does a weekly post with Bookbub featured books in it
And also used Google Ads which I'm not sure how much they do. However, in Dec 2013 they did $80,000 (estimated) of Google Ads. Estimated by GoogSpy.com

****************************************************************

5) Regarding this


> I also find it hard to believe that a category like contemporary romance, with 2,140,000+ reported subscribers, only gets an average of 39,700 downloads even for a free book. Where'd all their other subscribers go? Romance readers happen to be especially voracious, and they'd love to have a free book. Yet they keep not showing up for them, as do the readers in all their other categories. In contemporary romance, only 1.85% of their subscribers ever bothers to download freebies. I suspect BB's actual subscriber base is more like 1/10th of what they report.


Total Readers
Versus Daily Active Readers + Some section of Monthly Active Readers

They have 2.1 Million in Contemporary Romance

on any given day around 10% to 15% check the emails or blogs or Facebook
So perhaps 10% to 15% is what you get

So perhaps 210,000 to 315,000 opening

Of those some like the book and download it

The percentages are perhaps

1 out of every 40 total subscribers getting a free book download
1 out of every 1,000 or so total subscribers buying a paid deal

That is pretty par for the course for

large email lists
large apps
large Facebook page

etc.

It's only in very small lists where you can get 20% to 40% conversion

In Medium size it falls to 10% to 20% conversion

Very Large you'll only get 10% to 15% opens (daily active). So only 10% to 15% open on any given day
And only 2% or 3% download and less buy

***

*********************************
****************************************

Generally, I would not reply on a Bookbub thread, as we're a competitor. However, there is a lot of misunderstanding about promotion sites and there is someone (take a wild guess) trying to kill off all promotion sites so important for promotion sites to be nice to each other


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

BookBub gets you exposure. After that, it is on the book. Even with free runs, downloads can vary enormously,  depending on the appeal of the cover, hookiness of concept, BB's blurb, and your placement in the newsletter (which depends on all of the above plus how well known you are, and, of course, how you stack up against whoever else is in the newsletter that day). 

BB can be a game changer, busting your career open, even on a stand-alone book, especially if you are in KU. Or it can be a one-time spike, after which your sales sink down fast. My best recent one was in December 2016. It gave me a big four-month tail. Same book at 99 cents a couple years earlier moved 7500 copies of the book in 3 days. They did the same book this year and results were disappointing. I had changed the cover and it did NOT work. Even though I got a decent number of downloads, the huge tail did not happen. Probably because a much lower percentage of people actually read the book. 

They always pay back for me, normally in a few hours, but I am also in good BB genres. Some other genres are trickier, from what I hear.


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Ireader, that is great info, thank you so much for sharing!! Bookmarking that!


I am going to wait, finish my series and then see which books are doing well and I will use those for the bb with the revenue from the books.. thank you all for the advice and support, it has been invaluable!!


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## John Hunter (May 11, 2018)

I looked at BB and checked their prices. To broadcast (promote) a FREE short story as a sample of my writing internationally was $80. With all due respect to those posting reports of making enough money to buy a new Mercedes, I felt eighty bucks to reach India, Canada and the UK was a bit off. I have since convinced the Mighty Amazon to offer my puny little short for FREE and with the assistance of other online services think I have achieved an equal or greater coverage for free. As always, YMMV.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm a Bookbub veteran. I've had 15 Bookbubs, all in SF/F, free or 99c, all wide books.

They vary. Sometimes a book does great, sometimes a bit less. Whether it's the first or second time that they feature a book appears to be immaterial. Sellthrough is where you make the money, although my 99c Bookbubs have all earned out on the sales of the discounted book alone. I, too, have stopped counting when the profit reached five figures, although this is a fluke. But I've never lost money on a Bookbub. Sometimes you get lots of reviews, sometimes you get lots of signups, sometimes you sell lots of print books. Audio books... er, I'm still working on getting a Bookbub on a book that's available in audio.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

Bookbub is actually the cheapest and most effective advertising you can do. 

Yes, the cheapest. I've done over 20 bookbubs now over the past four years and if they'd let me, I'd do one every month. They usually earn out within a few hours and then generate anywhere from 10-30x the cost of the ad or better. No other ad I've done has come close.


But here's some specifics on why they are so cheap.....you have to dig into the specifics, not just what the ad costs, but what the reach is. Here's a comparison from two recent ad campaigns I ran. One was a $100 ad on Freebooksy and one a $441 ad on Bookbub. Both for free books. Both had very good results.

For the Freebooksy $100 ad the book received 4000 downloads. Which I was pretty happy about. It was a two day promo and boosted sales and rank.

The Freebooksy list has about 185,000 subscribers, and the download cost breaks down to .025  a little over two cents per free download which is great.


For the Bookbub $441 ad, it went out to over two million subscribers, and had about 60,000 downloads for a download cost of .007 or a bit more than half a cent.

So to compare the two, if you multiplied the Freebooksy ad by four and a half, to reach the same cost as bookbub, the total downloads would be about 15,000
compared to Bookbubs 60k. 

So, while on the surface it seems expensive, when you break it down and look at the reach and the results, it's surprisingly less expensive than the other 'cheaper' options.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

This is all encouraging and wonderful advice - but doesn't help if you're waiting to actually GET a BookBub  . They should have an auto relist/request option


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

I've spent a little over $53K with BookBub over the years. I'm a supporter and a fan.

Back in Sept 2016, a wanna-be competitor stated that BookBub's pricing was obscene. My response, with per-download breakdown -- much as Pamela offered above -- is here: https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,240929.msg3356318.html#msg3356318

My response to the wanna-be competitor regarding why offering a lower ad price to get the same results isn't easy is here: https://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,240929.msg3357630.html#msg3357630

(As an aside: I wonder whatever happened with that wanna-be competitor?)

My response to iReaderReview above regarding their 8M subscribers vs BookBub's 13M is to ask why a book advertised with them doesn't receive 61% of the sales or downloads that a book advertised with BookBub does. Across the board. Across genres. Even advertising the same book first with Books Butterfly and then advertising it with BookBub doesn't jump the numbers anywhere close. I would say if they generate 10% of the numbers BookBub does, even with their most costly ad, that's an outlier result.

Also, app subscribers are a much different beast than email subscribers. They can't really be compared. Look at FKBT. Michael's Fire app was in the Top 20 in the Amazon store for months a few years ago. He had at least 750K subscribers when BookBub's total number was ~2M. Were his ads getting 1/3 of the downloads or sales as BookBub was getting? Not even close.

So to compare Butterfly's 8M subs to Bub's 13M isn't even comparable in terms of engagement and expected results. Not to mention Butterfly operates on a quantity basis, not a per-ad quality basis, which isn't favorable to the author.


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## BonafideDreamer (Jul 22, 2018)

I only wish I can afford BookBub prices. But even if I could, I don't think I stand a chance as a new writer trying to self-publish my first book.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Lots of great comments here. A few things to add. I have had 20+ BookBubs, wide and KU, free, 99 cents, and 1.99 (on APub books):

1. BookBub favors wide books these days, though they will run KU books sometimes. Too bad because KU sellthrough is fantastic. I move as many books on Amazon as wide with a BookBub, and sometimes more (30-93k on a free book.) For me, free has by far the longest and most profitable tail, as it exposes so many more readers to my stuff.

2. My best same-month profit from a BookBub ad was about $40k. Yeah it is worth it, if people pick up and like the book. 

3. Cover cover cover. If you do not have a professional quality cover, you will almost surely not get an ad. Also: good editing. 

4. Sell through to audio is fantastic, especially for a free book. Not as good as when WhispwrSync was 1.99, but still good. That alone easily pays the cost of the ad. 

5. ROI on a stand alone can be terrific. One of my best ROIs was on a Standalone in a different subgenre than the rest of my stuff. Borrows of the free then formerly free book in KU, and sales due to visibility from the borrows. And then sales of other series. 

6. Customers fit into segments. Some customers pick up only freebies or love boxed sets or only borrow books in KU. But there are a lot of customers who use free or cheap books curated by BookBub to find new authors. Like going through the paperback carousel at the library and picking out books that look interesting. You might end up reading a third of them all the way through. Maybe one out iof ten times, you will go back to find other books by that author. 

7. I have picked up most of my readership through bargain-newsletter promoted free offers. It worked six years ago, and it still works now. 

8. Not all genres are equal, and there is a definite BookBub reader. Think “Baby boomer woman homeowner.” That is not all of them of course, but that is how their subscribers seem to skew.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

BonafideDreamer said:


> I only wish I can afford BookBub prices. But even if I could, I don't think I stand a chance as a new writer trying to self-publish my first book.


It's not ideal for a new first book. It's best for first in a series....when you have several more books for them to buy.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Romancer said:


> BookBub could charge double and it would still be worth it. My best BookBub made me $30k over 3 months from sell through. My "worst" one still made me a couple thousand dollars.
> 
> I usually make back my money in a day. One time I made it back within a couple of hours. This is in romance of course which makes a difference, but still. Absolutely worth it.


BookBub made me tons of money back in 2016.

It's okay now. I never lose money, but I don't see an extra 10k either. It might be that it's much better for wide authors, but I would expect to make an extra thousand dollars or so on the average NA BookBub (on a 4-5 book series). That's a great ROI for an ad that's $100-300, but it's not the mad money it used to be.

I've heard audio sellthrough is great, but that hasn't been my experience. I've only had one BookBub while having audiobooks though, so it might have been bad luck. My audio sales never seem to follow my ebook sales, though. I think narrators with huge followings are the key to doing well in audio, at least in romance.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I love Bookbub and have had a lot of success with the first book in one series. However, they seem to hate my book one in my post apoc series. Over a dozen rejections on that one.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

My author list is 16k readers. When I post a free book from another author, I get 300-800 downloads, enough to put the book into the top 200-300 free. Now I only need a way to scale this to 2M subscribers and Bookbub would start peeing its pants. But therein lies the rub...


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

BookBub has been very, very good to me, at least on my romance titles.

The first one I got was November 2013, Beautiful Illusions, with three books to sell. That was my first five-figure month. Prior to the BookBub, I was making around $200 a month when I was lucky. The second one was May 2014, the same book as the November 2013 one. That one grossed me $70,000+ in three months. The third one was on the same book as the other two, and the gas ran out, but I still made around $14,000 that month.

On Broken, I've gotten two BookBubs. First one made me $30,000 that month, $15,000 the next month. The second BB I got for Broken made about half that, but still amazing.

Cut to 2018. I've abandoned my romance pen name completely, and I'm focusing exclusively on legal thrillers. I got a BB for one of my legal thrillers in April of this year, and it was really, really underwhelming. The BB itself did great - I almost got 40,000 free DLs on the book and got to #2 in the store. But the sell-through was pathetic. I haven't yet figured out why - my legal thrillers have organically sold around 70,000 in just over a year, without ads. And, even now that the books are sinking a bit, they all sell around the same amount each month, which tells me that there's generally good sell-through. I dunno. I mean, I made my money back and then some, but it wasn't spectacular like the others were. 

That said, I'll take a BB anytime, any day.


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## David VanDyke (Jan 3, 2014)

It's all about the glut of free books. Not like it was five years ago.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********

Comment removed to protect content and data from the over-reaching TOS of new forum owner VerticalScope.

VerticalScope claims rights to any content posted to this site as theirs to disseminate beyond this site in any way they see fit.

Read the Terms of Service, both before AND after you've registered. At the time of this post, the new, more egregious TOS is available to read only after you've registered.

KBoards was purchased by VerticalScope 7.5 years and 4000 posts after I joined. VerticalScope will not allow that existing content to be permanently deleted, despite the fact I did not and do not agree to granting the new owners the rights to my content. 

***********


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## MikeyD (Aug 25, 2016)

Cassie Leigh said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Also, I do know of one self-published author who has done well with them with non-99 cent or free options. And with a standalone. *Mitty Walters*. Maybe he'll chime in here. (But note that the ads get more expensive the higher your pricepoint.)


Hey! Little late, but I just stumbled across this reference to me.

I have run two BB's for my stand alone---actually, my only book (*ASIN:* B00KXDW82C)---and made my money back. Each time I stacked, each time I recouped every penny and then some. The first was $1.99 and the second 99c.

Despite making my money back, I'm sort of ambivalent about BB. Neither time did my tail last very long. And when all was said and done (netting out the cost to promote against the month's sales at the reduced price---down from $4.99), I only ended up with like a $500 boost on the month. Meh.

That said, I think I screwed up/wasted money on my stacking (have yet to figure that out). And I have exactly zip to point readers at when they finish. So I don't think the less-than-stellar results can be blamed on BB, rather myself.

Also, I got torpedoed on the day of my first BB ($1.99). I received a one star review the evening before my BB. Even with that review, my Amazon rating was 4.3 on more than 100 ratings. Within an hour of BB going out, that guy's review had over 50 "helpful" votes... which could only have come from potential BB readers.

I'm currently wrapping up two new novels and, as soon as they are ready to go, will be looking to secure another BB. And not to sound paranoid, but next time I won't be posting one of those "Hey I got a BB, here is my stack" threads up here!


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

MikeyD said:


> Hey! Little late, but I just stumbled across this reference to me.
> 
> I have run two BB's for my stand alone---actually, my only book (*ASIN:* B00KXDW82C)---and made my money back. Each time I stacked, each time I recouped every penny and then some. The first was $1.99 and the second 99c.
> 
> ...


That's great that you did well with just one book! The tail on Bookbub is usually from readers coming back to read more books by the author. Once you have more books out, I bet you might find your tail lasts longer---especially if you do a free promo. That usually gives the longest tail by virtue of volume. The tail on a .99 is shorter because there are less initial readers to come back.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

PhoenixS said:


> You're looking at the sales metrics through indie author eyes.  Vendors of a certain level get actual conversion rates, and while BB isn't a vendor per se, their pricing page acknowledges that they receive conversion rate data from the retailers for paid sales (and estimate the data for freebies).
> 
> In the old days, before BB added proprietary click rate urls to their site and emails, they used easily reverse-engineered urls through a company that provided that data publicly for any book being advertised. The data group I'm in, who were also routinely getting BB features, could readily compare our own CTR and conversion rates, and then extrapolate that data against the CTR for books not our own to estimate their conversion rates and then compare against BB's published numbers. Based on our limited-data findings, we never had reason to believe BB was fudging their results in any way.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, Phoenix, I've found that my download numbers are about the same with KU and wide books. If the book isn't available wide, people seem to just go to Amazon and download it. I've done I think seven? wide BookBubs and probably--18? KU ones, and that's what I've seen. My highest download BBs have all been on Select books.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

***********

Comment removed to protect content and data from the over-reaching TOS of new forum owner VerticalScope.

VerticalScope claims rights to any content posted to this site as theirs to disseminate beyond this site in any way they see fit.

Read the Terms of Service, both before AND after you've registered. At the time of this post, the new, more egregious TOS is available to read only after you've registered.

KBoards was purchased by VerticalScope 7.5 years and 4000 posts after I joined. VerticalScope will not allow that existing content to be permanently deleted, despite the fact I did not and do not agree to granting the new owners the rights to my content. 

***********


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

PhoenixS said:


> That is interesting. For folk who generally purchase from other platforms to go to Amazon to get an Amazon-only freebie would mean they're signing up to receive deals on multiple platforms, not just their preferred one, or they wouldn't even see the deal.
> 
> Depending on the numbers who do sign up for multiple platforms, that could open up some interesting strategy in the display ads for targeting customers who typically prefer non-Amazon platforms.


Yes. The good thing about it is that all the effects are concentrated on Amazon, so the sell-through increases overall visibility that much more. And if the book comes off "Free" into a good rank like the 200s due to borrows, you end up with many more borrows and sales post-BB, which extends the tail. That is what I've found, anyway.


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## MikeyD (Aug 25, 2016)

PamelaKelley said:


> That's great that you did well with just one book! The tail on Bookbub is usually from readers coming back to read more books by the author. Once you have more books out, I bet you might find your tail lasts longer---especially if you do a free promo. That usually gives the longest tail by virtue of volume. The tail on a .99 is shorter because there are less initial readers to come back.


That makes perfect sense, thanks!


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

PhoenixS said:


> You're looking at the sales metrics through indie author eyes.  Vendors of a certain level get actual conversion rates, and while BB isn't a vendor per se, their pricing page acknowledges that they receive conversion rate data from the retailers for paid sales (and estimate the data for freebies).
> 
> In the old days, before BB added proprietary click rate urls to their site and emails, they used easily reverse-engineered urls through a company that provided that data publicly for any book being advertised. The data group I'm in, who were also routinely getting BB features, could readily compare our own CTR and conversion rates, and then extrapolate that data against the CTR for books not our own to estimate their conversion rates and then compare against BB's published numbers. Based on our limited-data findings, we never had reason to believe BB was fudging their results in any way.
> 
> ...


Thanks Phoenix. So it sounds like the numbers are for all the sales coming off the Bookbub email/website and not just on the day the ad runs, then. Just to clarify, I wasn't doubting their numbers in the least, I just like to compare my results with their stated averages to get a sense of whether my book did well for the category or not. (Particularly in regards to whether it did well from their perspective and, therefore, whether they're likely to feature the book/series again.) And I was never sure if I should be looking at all sales, sales only on the day, sales for the whole discounted period, or some percentage of sales in order to discount organic buys from the Bookbub visibility, etc. No doubt I'm overthinking it


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## L_Loryn (Mar 1, 2018)

MelanieCellier said:


> Thanks Phoenix. So it sounds like the numbers are for all the sales coming off the Bookbub email/website and not just on the day the ad runs, then. Just to clarify, I wasn't doubting their numbers in the least, I just like to compare my results with their stated averages to get a sense of whether my book did well for the category or not. (Particularly in regards to whether it did well from their perspective and, therefore, whether they're likely to feature the book/series again.) And I was never sure if I should be looking at all sales, sales only on the day, sales for the whole discounted period, or some percentage of sales in order to discount organic buys from the Bookbub visibility, etc. No doubt I'm overthinking it


I think you are.

BB got paid-- so it did well automatically to them. They're not going to care all (that) much whether your downloads went over their expectation or not. Now, if it did drastically under the expectation, they might take notice, but as long as it did average, I don't think your averages would affect the book being featured again.

They'd also probably take notice if everyone was doing worse than their projection (or far better), because then they'd adjust their pricing which it says they do pretty regularly anyway.


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

L_Loryn said:


> I think you are.
> 
> BB got paid-- so it did well automatically to them. They're not going to care all (that) much whether your downloads went over their expectation or not. Now, if it did drastically under the expectation, they might take notice, but as long as it did average, I don't think your averages would affect the book being featured again.
> 
> They'd also probably take notice if everyone was doing worse than their projection (or far better), because then they'd adjust their pricing which it says they do pretty regularly anyway.


My understanding is that Bookbub got to be so successful precisely because they do heavy curation with a close focus on what their lists like. So I think they definitely care about more than just if the author paid them. I also think that if you get opportunities like a Bookbub, it's worth paying attention to how your book does comparatively speaking. Because as indies we're publishers as well as authors and performance on something like a Bookbub can give some indication of the strength of your book's presentation.

I do agree that it's not likely to come down to a hundred sales this way or that (there are always other factors in play) but it's hard to even know if your book performed to average if you don't know if the stated average is supposed to cover 80% of one day's sales, 100% of one day's sales, or all sales for two weeks, etc.

But then I tend to overthink most things, it's how I process


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## L_Loryn (Mar 1, 2018)

MelanieCellier said:


> My understanding is that Bookbub got to be so successful precisely because they do heavy curation with a close focus on what their lists like. So I think they definitely care about more than just if the author paid them. I also think that if you get opportunities like a Bookbub, it's worth paying attention to how your book does comparatively speaking. Because as indies we're publishers as well as authors and performance on something like a Bookbub can give some indication of the strength of your book's presentation.
> 
> I do agree that it's not likely to come down to a hundred sales this way or that (there are always other factors in play) but it's hard to even know if your book performed to average if you don't know if the stated average is supposed to cover 80% of one day's sales, 100% of one day's sales, or all sales for two weeks, etc.
> 
> But then I tend to overthink most things, it's how I process


We weren't talking about authors, though, we were talking about BB.

BB controls their list, the books they promote, and they get feedback from vendors on how well their promotions do. The charge to the author is their payday-- not the day the author runs promotion. They did their back-end stuff to make sure during the promotion (the days they're promoting it) that you'll hit the estimate. The estimate is probably a low-ball because if they high-ball it and you don't make the estimate, you'll ask for a refund (I would).

For an author, it's my job to decide what I expect or want from the BB. What I want from a BB is for the book in question to get the estimate of downloads or the cost of the feature if its a 99c deal the first day it runs. I'm not relying on sell-through, I want the feature to pay for itself and make any sell-through lagniappe.


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

L_Loryn said:


> We weren't talking about authors, though, we were talking about BB.
> 
> BB controls their list, the books they promote, and they get feedback from vendors on how well their promotions do. The charge to the author is their payday-- not the day the author runs promotion. They did their back-end stuff to make sure during the promotion (the days they're promoting it) that you'll hit the estimate. The estimate is probably a low-ball because if they high-ball it and you don't make the estimate, you'll ask for a refund (I would).
> 
> For an author, it's my job to decide what I expect or want from the BB. What I want from a BB is for the book in question to get the estimate of downloads or the cost of the feature if its a 99c deal the first day it runs. I'm not relying on sell-through, I want the feature to pay for itself and make any sell-through lagniappe.


Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes then. I've been talking about authors--or more specifically how I personally can assess how my featured deal performed comparatively to other similar books. Both for my own information on how well I've packaged my book, and to assess the likelihood that Bookbub will select that book/series again as this is relevant for future marketing plans. (Because as you say, they do the work before they select the book, and I'm sure that includes looking at how that book or series has done previously if it's ever been featured before.) Naturally they have more information than I do to judge the success of a feature, but since all I have is the stated averages (without serious time investment in following ranks, etc for each promoted book), I would prefer to understand what those averages mean as far as I am able. Obviously this isn't a big deal and doesn't affect my interest in applying for future Bookbubs or anything, but I like to understand whatever I can about this business. (Sadly there's all too much that's opaque when it comes to publishing.)


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## L_Loryn (Mar 1, 2018)

MelanieCellier said:


> Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes then. I've been talking about authors--or more specifically how I personally can assess how my featured deal performed comparatively to other similar books. Both for my own information on how well I've packaged my book, and to assess the likelihood that Bookbub will select that book/series again as this is relevant for future marketing plans. (Because as you say, they do the work before they select the book, and I'm sure that includes looking at how that book or series has done previously if it's ever been featured before.) Naturally they have more information than I do to judge the success of a feature, but since all I have is the stated averages (without serious time investment in following ranks, etc for each promoted book), I would prefer to understand what those averages mean as far as I am able. Obviously this isn't a big deal and doesn't affect my interest in applying for future Bookbubs or anything, but I like to understand whatever I can about this business. (Sadly there's all too much that's opaque when it comes to publishing.)


Yeah, I don't really look at how my book compares to other books of my genre as long as it makes BB's money back and a little over. You can only compare your books to everyone else's if they're exactly the same-- which is kind of impossible.

To my knowledge, not a lot of people are writing exactly what I'm writing, so I can't really compare their sell-through to mine and trying to is just going to stress me out. I focus on writing the best book I'm able to write and that I'm happy with and going from there.


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## H.C. (Jul 28, 2016)

John Hunter said:


> I looked at BB and checked their prices. To broadcast (promote) a FREE short story as a sample of my writing internationally was $80. With all due respect to those posting reports of making enough money to buy a new Mercedes, I felt eighty bucks to reach India, Canada and the UK was a bit off. I have since convinced the Mighty Amazon to offer my puny little short for FREE and with the assistance of other online services think I have achieved an equal or greater coverage for free. As always, YMMV.


This post comes across as missing the point. There are dozens and dozens of indie authors chiming in to talk about how amazing bookbub is. Based on what we know about bookbub, there isn't a chance that you outperformed them with smaller vendors.

Bookbub is the cheapest per customer bar none because they have things that no other promo site has by an order of many magnitudes.


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## The one with all the big dresses on the covers (Jan 25, 2016)

L_Loryn said:


> Yeah, I don't really look at how my book compares to other books of my genre as long as it makes BB's money back and a little over. You can only compare your books to everyone else's if they're exactly the same-- which is kind of impossible.
> 
> To my knowledge, not a lot of people are writing exactly what I'm writing, so I can't really compare their sell-through to mine and trying to is just going to stress me out. I focus on writing the best book I'm able to write and that I'm happy with and going from there.


That makes sense. I guess I think of it less as directly comparing my book to someone else's as I think of it like asking around to get a sense of 'standard' or average results for impression to click ratios and click to buy ratios in an AMS or Facebook ad. Hopefully it gives me a sense of whether my book is well-targeted and measuring up to a reasonable standard of attractiveness given 'normal' consumer behavior within the specific setting. And, of course, in this particular instance, it gives me some idea of whether my brand is a good fit for Bookbub's list.

I could no doubt save myself time and energy by not thinking about this sort of thing, but then I also wouldn't be me


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## Steve Voelker (Feb 27, 2014)

Bookbub has been by far the cheapest of any promo I have ever run, because it always pays for itself. 
At this point, they are pretty much the only place where I still consider that pretty much guaranteed. (I know there are exceptions, but they are few and far between.)
Sure, we do the work of writing the books, but BB has done a TON of work to curate such a large and effective list, and they put a lot of effort into maintaining that. They also provide resources for free in the form of their blog and freely shared data. I'd say they deserve to get paid as much as they can, especially since people are still lining up to use the service. 
I also can't say enough good things about the people who work there. I've talked to them a bunch of times for various reasons, and they are always super awesome.


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

JRTomlin said:


> Had a BB promotion today that prompted KDP to rank strip the novel. *sigh*
> 
> It didn't do badly but that certainly is lowering the results on Amazon and is an excellent example of why I am taking my novels wide. There is no excuse for this kind of [crap].


That's a serious worry if you're doing a BB. Was it definitely the BB that was the problem? Perhaps BB can work with KDP to prevent further occurrences


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

I've been trying for a BB with my permafree for the past 4-5 months, and recently C. Gockel suggested I offer them my box set at a 99c deal price (Regular price $2.99 - I treat the box set as a cheap gateway to the rest!)

I submitted it on the 30th of July, and I'm very happy to report they just emailed me with an acceptance (US and international BB.) So, a big thanks due there!

When applying for the deal, I mentioned the box set has barely any reviews because I never promote it, but the three books it contains have around 250 reviews between them, with individual averages of 4.0/5, 4.4/5 and 4.6/5. (The box set has only 3 reviews, all 5/5.) I also mentioned that the novels in the box set weigh in at roughly 80k words each, and that there's also a freebie short story included.

I'm not sure what to expect from the BookBub, but I'm pretty sure it will pay for itself as the box set only covers the first three novels in the series, and there are 5 more afterwards, all priced at $4.99 each.


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## L_Loryn (Mar 1, 2018)

JRTomlin said:


> I have another on the 6th (yes, I do well getting them) ....


I want to be you when I grow up.


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## VirginiaMcClain (Sep 24, 2014)

Simon Haynes said:


> I've been trying for a BB with my permafree for the past 4-5 months, and recently C. Gockel suggested I offer them my box set at a 99c deal price (Regular price $2.99 - I treat the box set as a cheap gateway to the rest!)
> 
> I submitted it on the 30th of July, and I'm very happy to report they just emailed me with an acceptance (US and international BB.) So, a big thanks due there!
> 
> ...


Congrats, Simon! That's awesome. From everything I've read the box set for $0.99 leading into a long series is the way to make BB earn you the most and it's something I'm very excited to test out once I get my newest series going later this year. Please post results here on KB if you're willing to share! I'd be very curious to hear how it goes!


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## Simon Haynes (Mar 14, 2011)

VirginiaMcClain said:


> Congrats, Simon! That's awesome. From everything I've read the box set for $0.99 leading into a long series is the way to make BB earn you the most and it's something I'm very excited to test out once I get my newest series going later this year. Please post results here on KB if you're willing to share! I'd be very curious to hear how it goes!


I'll definitely be tracking the results, and I'm happy to share, good or bad.

The only thing I'm not sure about is when to lock in the 99c price, as I publish to Apple and B&N via Smashwords and I want to make double-sure they update in time. I'm thinking 3-4 days beforehand on all retailers, just to be sure. (Earlier, if that encompasses a weekend.)


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## Pandorra (Aug 22, 2017)

Gratz Simon! Good luck with your BB!!!


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## VirginiaMcClain (Sep 24, 2014)

Simon Haynes said:


> I'll definitely be tracking the results, and I'm happy to share, good or bad.
> 
> The only thing I'm not sure about is when to lock in the 99c price, as I publish to Apple and B&N via Smashwords and I want to make double-sure they update in time. I'm thinking 3-4 days beforehand on all retailers, just to be sure. (Earlier, if that encompasses a weekend.)


I set mine over a week ahead of time just to be sure, and if anything it got me a few extra sales on the run up (and thus a slight bump in ranking), so it didn't hurt.


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## Michael Gallagher (Jan 23, 2010)

PhoenixS said:


> Also, app subscribers are a much different beast than email subscribers. They can't really be compared. Look at FKBT. Michael's Fire app was in the Top 20 in the Amazon store for months a few years ago. He had at least 750K subscribers when BookBub's total number was ~2M. Were his ads getting 1/3 of the downloads or sales as BookBub was getting? Not even close.


Phoenix, I thought you said you retired&#8230;

I know, I usually just lurk and try not to jump in on conversations like this as it could be considered a conflict of interest. However, I've been doing the book promotion thing since the first year of the Kindle and I think I have seen it all. Several years ago when the FKBT app came out, we had half a million downloads in the first few months and it was, well, incredible. However, compare that to the apps you probably have on your phone - which one(s) from several years ago do you still use?

We still have a lot of engagement on the app but several years ago was several years ago and it is a new market dynamic. We concentrated and made a bet on the apps as well as subscribers on the e-Ink Kindle while BB made their bet on emails. While we "won" and continue to win the app and e-Ink Kindle front, BB won the email list game and have continued to spank us and everyone else in the book promotion business in terms of shear numbers and response rate.

Phoenix is right in this and her other posts on this topic, today it is all about the email subscribers and not Facebook followers, Twitter and the fake subscribers, app users, etc. In our business, our responsibility today is about the email list and growing it but not the total numbers but the number of opens and clicks. We have to do selective advertising to get new readers and make sure we are promoting good titles people enjoy so they (a) stay on the list, (b) remain engaged by opening the emails and making a purchase now and then, and (c) tell a friend who will subscribe and start the process over again.

The author's responsibility is to have a damn good cover to grab a potential purchaser's attention, a crisp and compelling book description, at least a bunch of 4+ star reviews from verified purchases and, by the way, write a good book. Ideally, you will offer a freebie that will hook a reader into grabbing your other titles.

While BB is the 800 pound gorilla and certainly a competitor, I'm smart enough to admire what they have done. They took a huge chance with their money, equity money, and sweat equity and from all appearances are doing well; I'm not jealous or bitter about them at all but admire their success as that, to me, is the fulfillment of the American Dream. They do a good job for the reader, but as an independent author if you sit back and look at them you will have to say they have done an outstanding job for the author and introduced your work to those who wouldn't have heard of you otherwise and allow authors to either make a full-time living or supplement their earnings from their regular job. I also like to think we and other midsized book promotion sites have done the same albeit in a smaller footprint.

Authors, publishers, book promoters - everyone - the key is to not get stagnant and keep reinventing yourself as market conditions change.

OK, I will try not to post again for a few more years!

Michael


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Michael Gallagher said:


> Phoenix, I thought you said you retired&#8230;


LOL! I did indeed say that here and here. I haven't done any writing or advertising since late March. Causing trouble on KBoards is just a hobby now.


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