# We have a couple of days left in the year, but...



## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

How are your total sales for 2012 looking?

For those who have been publishing long enough, how has your 2012 compared with previous years?

And would you prefer to get poked in the forehead with a sharp stick sixty-four times, or watch _Gigli_ starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez once with your eyes taped open?


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## 31842 (Jan 11, 2011)

2012 kicked 2011's arse and trounced 2010 like a pro linebacker against a squad of pop warner elementary schoolers.  I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me but it basically went from selling tens of copies a month in 2010, to hundreds of copies a month in 2011, to thousands of copies a month in 2012.  But any success in 2012 is due solely to joining Select in January and the subsequent fallout therein.  2013 has me shaking in my boots a bit, though.  The times are a'changin and things are already sliding.  I gotta learn some new tricks or I'm going to be in a world of hurt come March.

And how far would the sharp stick penetrate my forehead?  Is it just a poke or a jab?  Is skin broken or just dented?  Not that it really changes things...


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

2012 sales weren't as great for me as those in 2011 but I'm not complaining. I've still earned much more from my self-published work than I ever did from digital-first publishers _and_ I recently put some of my books into print! I don't expect to sell a ton of print copies but it's worth the effort and expense to me just to know the option is there for readers who want it. So I'm going into 2013 with hope that it'll be just as good a year (or better!) than 2012.

Also, I'll take the stick please.


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## Rykymus (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm with Kate. 2013 scares me. I got lucky and had an unbelievable first year, selling about 135,000 copies. (Up to 5 titles now.) But I have the feeling that 2013 isn't going to be even half as good. I'm okay with that, as I still won't have to go and find a regular job. I just hope I can keep it going to some degree.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I first published on January 1st, 2012. So I have no idea. 

All I can say though is that December has flattened all the other months like the little whiny beeches they are. It's nearly the end of the month and sales are still modestly strong, so here's hoping for January also being an awesome month.

Got a good feeling about 2013.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm the opposite. 

I published my first ebooks in 2011, but they were mainly short stories and novellas, and while they sold a bit, they never sold in any form that I would call satisfactory. I released some novels, tried Select with moderate success, but never like some other people.

Enter September 2012. I don't know what happened but all of a sudden, my trilogy started selling on B&N and Kobo, and even Apple sales are growing every month. It's still hundreds rather than thousands, but I sell nothing under $4.99, so that's a very encouraging thing for me.

At the start of 2013, I have left Select and am concentrating on writing series and making them available in as many different places as I can.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Patty Jansen said:


> At the start of 2013, I have left Select and am concentrating on writing series and making them available in as many different places as I can.


I'd love to follow you, but Select makes me too much money and I have absolutely no idea how to market on other stores. I'd be helpless, and nobody seems to know much except "trust in pure dumb luck". For poor selling genres like Sci-Fi (apart from Hugh, bless His holy name), that's usually a really, really bad idea.

I have considered making a non-Select experiment, just to see how it would go, something entirely different and unique and not at all linked to my other work, but I honestly think it'll be a flop due to my own stupidness.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

I started self-publishing my books near the end of July of this year, and things were rough at first. July, August and September were absolutely horrible. October was a nice improvement, November was the first sign that I could actually do this for a living and December has been about as good as November so far. I still don't really know why or how things are getting better, but they are. That's encouraging enough for me to have a positive outlook on 2013. I'll be switching around genres a bit, playing with new pen names and eventually coming back to writing some epic fantasy, which happens to be my true love.

I'm now mostly out of select and into other markets. That seems to be helping somewhat. I'm just going to keep writing and publishing. I hope to have plenty of new titles out by the end of next year.


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## Joe_Nobody (Oct 23, 2012)

2012 was my first full year as a writer. In January, I only had two books published and have added five more this year.

I look at my income this year and still can't believe how lucky I've been.  
While not in the same league as many esteemed members herein, I ain't doing so bad for a broken down old warhorse.

The best part is looking forward to 2013. I have so many new marketing thingies I want to try. I've 5 different books in process and enjoy working on each and every one. I believe 2013 will be a significant year with regards to the overall history of self-publishing and indie writers. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it all turns out. I think our lives, the publishing industry and marketing in general are all going to become significantly more competitive during the coming year. I've always been a natural competitor and look forward to the game.


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## That one girl (Apr 12, 2011)

I think I sold like 70 books last year. I think I sold maybe another 100 or so during the first half of 2012. I published No Shelter in June. I just hit 5,000 books sold today.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

I started on January 1st this year, so I can't compare, but I had a hell of an awesome year and hope to do even better next year.  

I choose neither option.  No stick and PLEASE, no gigli.


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## CJArcher (Jan 22, 2011)

I published my first book at the end of Jan 2011 so I'm almost at my 2 year anniversary. 2012 numbers are up a little over 50% on 2011 numbers, but that's to be expected considering I have more books out. 2013 will be interesting.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

If you hacked off one of my hands I could still palm you a number.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

For the record, choosing between Gigli and a stick, I would choose the stick _every time_.

I started publishing at the end of April 2011, but 2011 was...pretty pathetic. The fact that my 2011 sales account for 6% of my lifetime sales to date does not speak to the publishing environment so much as my mental disorganization. But I sold fifteen times the number of copies in 2012 than I did in 2011, so if I sell fifteen times that again in 2013, it would be a hell of a year.


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## 48209 (Jul 4, 2011)

From July-end 2011: 228
2012 so far: 2054

I'm pretty happy with that. I'm hopeful that 2012 will be a 4k year if I can get the two 50kers up in the next months.


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## AmberC (Mar 28, 2012)

We only started publishing 8 months ago but it has been great. I'm excited for 2013.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

2012's royalty income roughly quadrupled 2011's, but that's to be expected considering as I only had one book in 2011 (released in April), whereas I released a novel, an anthology, and a boxed set of both novels in 2012.

I have an agressive 2013 planned, including a co-authorship with a NY Times bestseller, so I expect that 2013 will be even better.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

CaseyHollingshead said:


> If you hacked off one of my hands I could still palm you a number.


Chin up. You're going to publish more books in 2013, build a mailing list and Facebook following, and start kicking ass.  Right?

I was born in '88 too, btw. Class of 2006 brofist. *fistbump*


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

2012 is closing out with about 50% of the total volume of 2011 and about 140% of the revenue of 2011. I started in 2010 and at my current pace, should hit 30K sales sometime in January.


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## JETaylor (Jan 25, 2011)

smreine said:


> How are your total sales for 2012 looking?
> 
> For those who have been publishing long enough, how has your 2012 compared with previous years?
> 
> And would you prefer to get poked in the forehead with a sharp stick sixty-four times, or watch _Gigli_ starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez once with your eyes taped open?


2012 was a decent year, eons better than the prior 1.5 years. Considering my first book came out in July of 2010, and it took a year and a half to get any traction, this year's been a blessing. Enough sales to help with the college payments, so I can't complain. Would I like more - yes, but this isn't anything to waive a stick at.

Speaking of sticks - that's my choice on your second question...


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

T.L. Haddix said:


> I _remember_ 1988. Someone hand me the sharp stick? I feel so old now.


Actually, I meant 1888. Did I mention that I'm a vampire? Yeah. Keep the stakes sticks away from TL Haddix.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

I only have three months of sales to look at so no clue for fiction.  Every week my 6 week sales figures jump about $100-$200 so I guess that's on the right track.

My non-fiction appears to be down, but I haven't totaled anything up yet so I really have no idea.  I had some really great months, but some months were down from last year.  I'll have to wait and see when I do my taxes.  Some of it just might be a change of venue from where people bought my products last year versus this year.  I sold a lot more form my own website this year than ever before.

( And no one wants to know what I was doing in 1988 - all bad stuff!)


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Steel Magnolia Press is just a little over a year old now. Aside from my books, we had only a few novellas in the first half of this year. Then Jennifer got digital rights reverted on 37 novels in July, and we've been publishing those out a handful per month at a time. We still have 12 novels and 4 box sets to go (scheduled for Jan/Feb 2013) out of those original 37. Plus, the other two authors kicked in a couple of strong books as well.

We probably won't quite hit 100,000 copies sold this year, but we'll come awfully close.

Sold/borrowed to date: 93,500
Freebies: 567,000

My own 3 books have sold 12,600 copies, with the bulk of those being SECTOR C - right at 8000 copies. I've also given away 63,000 copies of SECTOR C, and another 20,000 of the other two books this year.

I started publishing my own stuff in April 2011. 2012 was an improvement of about a bazillion2.


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

My goal coming into 2012 was to triple sales from 2011.  Ending the year with about a hundred fold increase instead, so yeah I'd say it's been pretty decent. 

Oh and I'd take the sharp stick over watching that movie. Must keep tortures in perspective.


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## MPTPGV (Jul 28, 2012)

Of the three books that I posted up, using no marketing but Select, I've sold 500 copies from July 25th.  So, I've sold roughly 100 copies a month.  In the next month, with a new system of writing, and, being allowed to move back in with my parents for half the year (I'm 24), I can write fulltime, and produce 10 to 20 thousand words a day almost, closer to 20 than to 10.  Also, i've studied a lot about marketing, branding, and am putting books out that I want to really push my name behind.  Not to mention I'm also going into fiction rewriting my backlog of books, and writing up a series of other books, novellas, and short stories (I'm hoping for more than 100 publications by the end of the year), so, I'm excited.  Whatever comes will come! 

I'm just looking for better marketing to get my name out. 

However, it seems by JAKonrath's belief, the real goal is Quality Quantity, you want to produce a lot of high quality books.  However, book blogs, press releases, Goodread giveaways, these things can't hurt either. 

All a writer can do is write their best and hope for the best, I guess.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

2011-7464 books sold (Amazon only)

2012-8854 books sold (Amazon only)

I sold more books than that this year, but I didn't have anything in place to track sales from other outlets at the end of 2011, because they were all pitiful. I'm rectifying that for 2013.

Anyway, I did better in 2012 than I did in 2011, but I want to echo the fears for 2013. Hitting the top 100 free with the first book in a series (Thanks bookbub!) doesn't work the way it used to. My rankings have already peaked and are dropping like a stone. That used to be good for a two month surge of goodness. 

Basically, I'm hoping that some places besides Amazon save me in 2013.

Also, I might write some sexy new adult stuff. Te he.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

I started publishing at the end of July 2011. One book out for 2011, roughly about 1000 sales.
This year I put out two books in the series. I'm currently at about 45K books sold. 2012 has been amazing. I'm excited to see what 2013 brings.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Deanna Chase said:


> 2012 has been amazing. I'm excited to see what 2013 brings.


Having Gemma Halliday as your own personal indie mentor certainly didn't hurt, but you're the one who wrote the awesome books. Congrats on your success!


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## otterific (Jan 31, 2012)

I published my first book on January 1, 2012, and had three more books in the same series sitting in the wings. I published one new book each month and wrote book 5, which released in July. I started writing a new series, and published the first book on October, and a Christmas novella for the first series in November. I joined the select program in March, which was a tremendous help to get my books seen. Being an unknown with zero marketing knowledge, Select was a great way to go. I've sold over 12,000 copies (and given away at least 50,000) of my books this year. I have no idea what 2013 will bring. December has been a rather dismal month.


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## Pnjw (Apr 24, 2011)

Amanda Brice said:


> Having Gemma Halliday as your own personal indie mentor certainly didn't hurt, but you're the one who wrote the awesome books. Congrats on your success!


I know, right? I was just sitting here thinking about how I lucked out in a major way. Every time I start to formulate a plan, I think, _What would Gemma do_?  Thank you, and I'm super excited for you and your co-authorship!


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## Bruce Blake (Feb 15, 2011)

My first book came out right before Christmas 2011, and I've just published my fourth. Things went along at a few copies (maybe up to 100) until October, when I published the first book of my epic fantasy trilogy, and things have been climbing since. I'll finish the year with about 2500 total sales, with book 3 of the trilogy coming out next month. I expect big things for 2013.


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## Nicole Ciacchella (May 21, 2012)

My first book, The Eye of the Beholder, came out right at the end of April. I'm _thisclose_ to hitting 1,000 sales (if you factor in borrows, I'm at around 1,100), most of them sales of The Eye. Phoning It In just came out a couple weeks ago, so it's too soon to tell how that will change things.

I also recently queried a blogger I really like, and she agreed to review Creators. I'm over the moon that she's going to read and review it, but this is the panicky part where I cross my fingers and hope she'll like it.

I'm optimistic about 2013. I'm planning on doing another book in the fairytale collection to capitalize on the success of The Eye, and I'm going to try my hand at doing a romcom serial.


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## Lisa Scott (Apr 4, 2011)

Dec 2012 isn't as good as 2011 for me.  Last December, I had a short from one of my collections go free on amazon, it was picked up by ENT and POI (without me doing a thing--this was right before select,) and I sold hundreds of books (with half the number I have now) and made twice as much last year as I will this December.  

Compared to last year, BN sales are way up for me.  amazon UK is down.  amazon US varies, but I'm not selling as many copies of each book that I used to.  I have more collections out, which makes up for the decrease.  Itunes continues to be good, but I lost momentum there in June when smashwords delayed getting my latest collection out by a month or so.  I'd consistently been on itunes best seller lists until then, and each new release would keep me there, but with that delay, I dropped off the lists, and I'm not selling quite as much as I had been. It's always something, isn't it?  

I do worry if I'll be able to continue to make good money with this, the way things are always changing.  And I wonder, if my collections haven't take off by now if they ever will. (I've been doing this since May 2011.) With 6 collections out, boxed sets and individual shorts, it's really hard to add up how many units I've sold, but I'll talk money.  I made a few dollars shy of $36,000 in 2012 with my indie stuff across all platforms.  I also had a traditional deal last year that brought in a five-figure advance.  
Here's hoping we all have a lucky 2013.  Keep on plugging away....


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I started in July 2011, so I had only six months of sales in 2011 and sales were very modest. 2012 sales fluctuated a bit, but have been steadily going up since September, only to collapse in December. But my sales still grew by 277 percent, while my number of available titles rose to 31, including translations and collections. And all that with no Select, no freebies, no paid advertising and only modest promotion.


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## Dee Ernst (Jan 10, 2011)

2012 was pretty spectacular for me, and I can point to the moment everything changed - when I went with Select last April.  That started a chain reaction that is just now slowing down. 2013 will be a whole different animal.  I've got a trad-pub deal and a self-pubbed series in the works.  I'm just hoping that I won't have to go back to a day job.


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## Shayne Parkinson (Mar 19, 2010)

2012 has been an amazing year for me.

In 2009, my book sales covered a small portion of my expenditure on coffee.
In 2010 I sold a few thousand, and was delighted with that.
About halfway through 2011 things reached a new level, and sales went into the tens of thousands.
In 2012 I've sold more than three times as many as I did in 2011, and I've passed 200,000 in all-time sales.

Amazon.com and Amazon UK are currently my major outlets, but I also have quite good sales (several thousand a month) on B&N, and Apple has picked up in the last few months.

I've never been in Select, and have no plans to - I'd hate to disappoint my readers on B&N and elsewhere.

If 2013 is anything like 2012 for me, I'll be over the moon.


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

Ah, 2012... well I had to start somewhere, right?

The important things are that I'm having fun, and that about 97% of the people who have read the book have enjoyed it a lot and wanted more. And I'm going to give them more next year, and many more after that, even if only the same 75-ish people ever buy them. And I got my first fan letter in my PO Box, which is an amazing thing (it was two pages, single-spaced, people!). And there has not been a month yet where nobody bought a copy (even if some months have been scarily close). And overall, I am happy I did this and plan to continue.

And it seems I have become excellent at giving myself pep talks, if nothing else, lol! Because, you know, sometimes you're the only person who will give you one.


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## the quiet one (Aug 13, 2012)

I published my first novel near the end of September, and put out the second and a prequel novella in the past 10 days or so. My hope was to average about a sale a day (30/month) and maybe hit 100 sales by the end of the year. I'm actually a handful away from 1,500, which floors me.

I'll be spending 2013 trying to get the next four books in the series out, possibly some novella "sidequels" if I get more efficient, and will be working to branch to other platforms besides just Kindle. The prequel is already out on BN and Smashwords, and is waiting for the Kobo folks to get over their hangovers; the others will go out when Select ends for Book 1 on January 1. (For the records, borrows have been pretty anemic for me; I'll test the waters elsewhere for a while and see what happens.)

Oh... Can I use the stick to beat everyone associated with _Gigli_ instead?



T.S. Welti said:


> I think I sold like 70 books last year. I think I sold maybe another 100 or so during the first half of 2012. I published No Shelter in June. *I just hit 5,000 books sold today. *


Congrats! That's fantastic!



smreine said:


> I was born in '88 too, btw. Class of 2006 brofist. *fistbump*


And now I feel old. Yo, smreine, get off my lawn and all that.



Shayne Parkinson said:


> In 2009, my book sales covered a small portion of my expenditure on coffee.
> In 2010 I sold a few thousand, and was delighted with that.
> About halfway through 2011 things reached a new level, and sales went into the tens of thousands.
> In 2012 I've sold more than three times as many as I did in 2011, and I've passed 200,000 in all-time sales.


Applause!


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## ToniD (May 3, 2011)

First pubbed midway through 2011, and limped my way through the rest of the year. And then book two came out in early 2012, and then I joined Select, and then jumped from obscurity to perhaps mid-list territory. For all the issues/questions about Select Free, it was that tool that took my books up a few levels.

I might be closing in on 10K sales overall; will have to do some math.


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

2012 has been a roller coaster ride for me. I published my book on January 21, 2012, sold a few to people who knew me in the first month or so, and then sold practically nothing until June. In June, things picked up due to a group free promo and I sold about 1,500 books over the months of June, July, August, and September. The bottom dropped out of my sales in October, and in November they continued to fall. December has been even worse, and today, my book completely "unlatched" and fell into the 100K plus zone. It was the first time I've had 0 sales in 24 hours since June. I did manage to sell over 2,000 books this year, but 2013 isn't looking too promising if the trend continues. Hopefully, the second volume of my trilogy will get things going again when it comes out this Spring.

I suppose I should be glad that I don't do this for a living.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

smreine said:


> How are your total sales for 2012 looking?
> 
> For those who have been publishing long enough, how has your 2012 compared with previous years?
> 
> And would you prefer to get poked in the forehead with a sharp stick sixty-four times, or watch _Gigli_ starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez once with your eyes taped open?


2012 was a good year for me. I made by far the most money I ever made writing fiction.

I'll take the sharp stick, thanks.


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## 60911 (Jun 13, 2012)

2011 - 87 books sold. 

2012 - 16,461. 14,105 of those in the 4th quarter. Yikes. So, uh...yeah. Not sorry to see 2011 go. If I could get that much growth in 2013...wowza. 

Never seen Gigli, but based on the opinions of youse guys whose opinions I respect, I choose HEY LOOK OVER THERE, IT'S A DISTRACTION!! *runs away*


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

RobertJCrane said:


> 2011 - 87 books sold.
> 
> 2012 - 16,461. 14,105 of those in the 4th quarter. Yikes. So, uh...yeah. Not sorry to see 2011 go. If I could get that much growth in 2013...wowza.


HOLY SHIT, RJC! That's fantastic, dawg!


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## Mike McIntyre (Jan 19, 2011)

2012 is my best $$$ year ever. Not just of the indie era, but of my entire 30-year career as a full-time writer/journalist.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

smreine said:


> Chin up. You're going to publish more books in 2013, build a mailing list and Facebook following, and start kicking *ss.  Right?
> 
> I was born in '88 too, btw. Class of 2006 brofist. *fistbump*


Class of 2007.

New book at the beginning of January. Not as niche as the first. If I wanted to kick butt I'd sit down and write a flood of erotica. For some reason, I can write a smut story blindfolded and throw it out there unedited and make ten times the profit. Money making isn't particularly important to me at the moment, though, so I shall write what I wish to write.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

genevieveaclark said:


> LOL. Really? Try it then, just for an experiment. Go ahead. Try to make a living with erotica.
> 
> Seriously, it's annoying to see erotica disaparraged so easily. The erotica list on Amazon is seriously competitive, or was. Maybe stop treating it like some kind of special olympics (in the horrible, Cartman sense).


Perhaps I will. The defensiveness is a bit crude. Erotica is frequently panned because the bar of entry _is_ low. How can one argue otherwise? Writing ability is about as useful to erotica as camera work is to porn. This isn't meant as an insult; erotica's strengths are simply elsewhere. The best selling erotica ever reads like train brakes squealing over rusted rails. Forever. But it still sold well because erotica isn't about prose or syntax or any such thing. I think it is difficult (and unfair) to directly contrast it to other genres, including romance. As for competitiveness, in no other genre will you find 3,000-word stories being sold for 70%-royalties. _That_ was my point when it came to effort vs. payout. It's not an indictment of erotica so much as a look at the market itself -- reflecting the old trope that "sex sales" and that's that.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

CaseyHollingshead said:


> Perhaps I will. The defensiveness is a bit crude. Erotica is frequently panned because the bar of entry _is_ low. How can one argue otherwise? Writing ability is about as useful to erotica as camera work is to porn. This isn't meant as an insult; erotica's strengths are simply elsewhere. The best selling erotica ever reads like train brakes squealing over rusted rails. Forever. But it still sold well because erotica isn't about prose or syntax or any such thing. I think it is difficult (and unfair) to directly contrast it to other genres, including romance. As for competitiveness, in no other genre will you find 3,000-word stories being sold for 70%-royalties. _That_ was my point when it came to effort vs. payout. It's not an indictment of erotica so much as a look at the market itself -- reflecting the old trope that "sex sales" and that's that.


Goodness, you are just super friendly and without a ounce of pretension, aren't you?

Chillax, dude. Erotica =/= porn, it is not as easy to write a short story that titillates and speaks to the human experience in a way that (cough) moves the spirit as you might think, and high fantasy really isn't niche. We're all working writers here. Let's be awesome to each other.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

smreine said:


> Goodness, you are just super friendly and without a ounce of pretension, aren't you?
> 
> Chillax, dude. Erotica =/= porn, it is not as easy to write a short story that titillates and speaks to the human experience in a way that (cough) moves the spirit as you might think, and high fantasy really isn't niche. We're all working writers here. Let's be awesome to each other.


I'm not being unfriendly or angry. My opinion is that erotica requires a different sort of talent than other genres. If others disagree, that's fine with me. I'm not gonna tell someone to simmer down just because they have a different viewpoint on the matter. I'd rather hear what they have to say.


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

*How are your total sales for 2012 looking?
*
Just under 500,000 books (combined print and digital across all distributors).

*For those who have been publishing long enough, how has your 2012 compared with previous years?
*
First published in 2009. 2009 - 2011 probably saw a grand total of 5,000 books sold. Which made me ecstatic.

*And would you prefer to get poked in the forehead with a sharp stick sixty-four times, or watch Gigli starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez once with your eyes taped open?
*
How sharp is the stick, exactly?

As for 2013, I'm expecting a huge decline in sales compared to 2012. My goal is to get five of my works back into Select, move the same five books from Lightning Source to CreateSpace, survive a traditional book launch, and wrap up the series readers care about so I can get back to writing the stuff everyone hates.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

Victoria Champion said:


> It takes skill to write good erotica the same as it takes skill to write a good story in any genre. Erotica that is not well crafted will not sell as well as erotica that is well crafted - the same as any genre. Why are you being so snobbish about your fellow authors? Sounds like jealousy to me. Sour grapes.


It does. One has to read erotica to get better at it -- that hints at there being craftsmanship. I think _Fifty Shades_ is a very good book. Now, is it well written at the ground level? No. My opinion is that erotica takes a different skillset; it is almost nothing like other genres. Even its closest cousin, romance, is very, very different. Again, my opinion. Maybe saying the entry-bar is "low" is insulting, but I only meant it in regards to the _market_, not the _writers_. I never meant to insult anybody.

If people are successful with what they do, more power to them. I hold no grudges or jealousy; if I did, I guess I'd be writing erotica to compete


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

CaseyHollingshead said:


> I'm not being unfriendly or angry. My opinion is that erotica requires a different sort of talent than other genres. If others disagree, that's fine with me. I'm not gonna tell someone to simmer down just because they have a different viewpoint on the matter. I'd rather hear what they have to say.


There's opinion, and there's opinion conveyed in a thoroughly obnoxious manner and then rewritten to sound less offensive than it did the first time around ("Writing ability is about as useful to erotica as camera work is to porn"; "erotica isn't about prose or syntax or any such thing" --> "erotica requires a different sort of talent" ... which is as close to pablum as you can get, since *every* genre requires different writerly strengths).

There's sixty-seven tons of poorly written erotica out there that has never garnered a single review or, from what I can tell, sold a single copy. There are also poorly written/edited books in other genres that've sold like gang-busters. The annoying bad-writing/great-sales paradox is not unique to any genre.

Really, I cringe to think of KB's many successful erotica writers dropping by this thread and reading your dismissive comments. I hope they realize this is absolutely not reflective of what most of the non-erotica writers here think about producing good work in that genre.

Signing out of this thread permanently, now, so that it doesn't get locked. So many inspiring stories, here.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> *How are your total sales for 2012 looking?
> *
> Just under 500,000 books (combined print and digital across all distributors).
> 
> ...












C'me on, Hugh, head up


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

Edit: ^^^    ^^^ Thanks.



T.L. Haddix said:


> Do you mind if I ask why you're expecting a huge decline? I'm nosy.


I've been expecting a huge decline every day of every week of every month of this entire year. I'm not one to give up!

And I don't see the media mentions this upcoming year like I had last year. I could be wrong. Simon and Schuster is sending me on a 12-city tour and Random House UK is sending me to Australia and the UK, but I still can't see selling half a million books next year. My five minutes should've been up eight months ago. Even if I do sell a ton of physical books because of these tours, the royalty rate will be far less. We'll see, I suppose. Maybe SM will have a similar thread a year from now.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

CaseyHollingshead said:


> Writing ability is about as useful to erotica as camera work is to porn. This isn't meant as an insult; erotica's strengths are simply elsewhere.


Have you ever read the work of Anaïs Nin?

If you haven't, let's talk after you do.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> Edit: ^^^    ^^^ Thanks.
> 
> I've been expecting a huge decline every day of every week of every month of this entire year. I'm not one to give up!
> 
> And I don't see the media mentions this upcoming year like I had last year. I could be wrong. Simon and Schuster is sending me on a 12-city tour and Random House UK is sending me to Australia and the UK, but I still can't see selling half a million books next year. My five minutes should've been up eight months ago. Even if I do sell a ton of physical books because of these tours, the royalty rate will be far less. We'll see, I suppose. Maybe SM will have a similar thread a year from now.


You're such an optimist, Hugh.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

Becca Mills said:


> Really, I cringe to think of KB's many successful erotica writers dropping by this thread and reading your dismissive comments. I hope they realize this is absolutely not reflective of what most of the non-erotica writers here think about producing good work in that genre.


Well, I just might be one of those writers 

People should know that anything I said was wholly of my own opinion. Also, I never intended to insult anybody so if anyone is feeling a bit heated, sorry. My wording was not as accurate as I would have liked.

[quote author=JRTomlin]
Have you ever read the work of Anaïs Nin?

If you haven't, let's talk after you do.[/quote]

Not a fan. But it did remind me of Anne Rice. Also not a fan, but I think she is a great writer. Any ability to turn a phrase, though, just isn't all that relevant to me when it comes to an erotic story. One doesn't delve into a BDSM trilogy looking for literary merit. I think Rice knew that, just as well, but I'm digressing again. I don't mean to derail the point of this thread.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

CaseyHollingshead said:


> . One doesn't delve into a BDSM trilogy looking for literary merit.


You are going to go far here, son.


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

smreine said:


> You are going to go far here, son.


Be careful - SMReine has a pointy object!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

CaseyHollingshead said:


> Well, I just might be one of those writers
> 
> People should know that anything I said was wholly of my own opinion. Also, I never intended to insult anybody so if anyone is feeling a bit heated, sorry. My wording was not as accurate as I would have liked.
> 
> Not a fan. But it did remind me of Anne Rice. Also not a fan, but I think she is a great writer. Any ability to turn a phrase, though, just isn't all that relevant to me when it comes to an erotic story. One doesn't delve into a BDSM trilogy looking for literary merit. I think Rice knew that, just as well, but I'm digressing again. I don't mean to derail the point of this thread.


It happens I don't delve into BDSM for any reason, but not all erotica is BDSM. And when I do read erotica, which I do, you bet I look for literary merit. If you don't then what you are looking for is porn. Not erotica.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Just to clear the air: porn is good, too. Nothing wrong with erotica OR porn.


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

smreine said:


> Just to clear the air: porn is good, too. Nothing wrong with erotica OR porn.


I was so mad, but now I am laughing. True enough.


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## T.P. Grish (Oct 21, 2012)

I published in Mid october 2012. 

I got about 7 sales not counting giveaway copies.

It was a slow trickle, haven't noticed patterns, or, sadly, any increase in the holiday period.


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## Cliff Ball (Apr 10, 2010)

I published my first novel in 2008, and I sold a grand total of 37 books, all but 8 of those paperback.

Last year, because I went two months with three novels free because Diesel and Sony screwed up my Amazon prices, I had a little over 24k downloads, 22k of which were free   Fortunately, each year I'm increasing in paid sales.

This year, with the exception of a couple of giveaways and free promos, with 1 novel in Select, I've sold over 3500 this year just through word of mouth alone, since I don't have the extra money to do more than that. B&N is now starting to parallel my Amazon sales, as a matter of fact.


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## Courtney Milan (Feb 27, 2011)

smreine said:


> How are your total sales for 2012 looking?
> 
> For those who have been publishing long enough, how has your 2012 compared with previous years?


Total sales this year: about 225,000, not counting the last half year of sales for my traditionally published books, since I won't know those numbers until April of next year. If we just include self-published book sales, it's about 165,000.

Comparison with last year: I'd have to go and add old royalty statements to figure out exactly what 2011 looked like for my traditionally published books. For self-published books, last year the number was 138,292.


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

[quote author=JR Tomlin]It happens I don't delve into BDSM for any reason, but not all erotica is BDSM. And when I do read erotica, which I do, you bet I look for literary merit. If you don't then what you are looking for is porn. Not erotica.[/quote]

I'm coming from the rather self-evident definition of erotica, which is literally content intended to "sexually arouse." No other genre has anything close to that. No other genre is even so specific when it comes to eliciting an emotion or physical response. This is why I'm rather particular about how I view erotica. It's just in a world of its own, a rather unique niche in literature. While strong writing is a bonus, I don't find it necessary for an erotic tale to be good -- and neither does the market, which was central to my point. Some folks have mentioned this is not unique to erotica, but that's only partly true. What other genre can get away with erotica's pricing, for example? What other genre can get away with high priced short stories? You put up a short story in some genres and people will low-star it simply _because_ it was a short story! Two very, very different points of entry (pun). I find that hilarious and I'm talking about this as a person who makes okay money writing in the genre (though very little elsewhere). I've read erotica where by the end I was like, Well, that was charming. But if I put it into MSWord the program would explode. So what? Pulp fiction of the early twentieth century was actually not all that different and that happens to be some of my favorite stuff. If sharp prose and precise grammar were titillating, I think the erotic market place would look very, very different. If that is insulting, well, I can hardly apologize more. I honestly do not believe my opinions here are really that controversial. The smileys were intended to convey a good sense of humor about things; they say most communication is non-verbal, so you can lose a lot of that just by reading text.

As for literary merit, well that's a long running merry go'round. And I don't just mean for the genre, I mean for everything. Some people might read erotica for literary merit. I'm not one of them. I know many people who are in the same boat. I know others who are not.


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## Edward W. Robertson (May 18, 2010)

I put two proper novels up for sale in February 2011 and later added a few short story collections. In 2011, I think I sold about 250 copies.

I put a third novel up in February 2012, improved an old cover, jumped into Select, and published two more sequels later this year. I don't have super-accurate totals, but I think I've sold around 14,000 in 2012. 

This is a scary job because it's so uncertain; things change so fast; and it's an awful lot of work to keep going. But I'll have 3-4 new books and with any luck I won't be quite as dumb about releasing them, so I think I can do better next year.

Um, some of you all have insane sales, by the way. That's incredibly awesome.


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## notreallyhere (Oct 8, 2011)

2012 is my first year as a published author. The first few months - eh, not so great.

Then I released book 3 of my series at the end of October and set book 1 perma-free.

November was my first 4 figure month, and December is nearly there. So - yeah, 2012 has been good to me. 

A note for those of you starting out - until I started selling, really selling, at the end of October, my sales were _barely_ enough for a trip to Starbucks. Hanging out here helped keep my spirits up, kept me believing. Now I feel confident heading into a new year, and I am raring to go, with a full writing/publishing schedule already in place.

So it's definitely possible - and I keep to this mantra: write more books. Because it's working for me.

Congrats to all of you - so inspirational!


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## CaseyHollingshead (Dec 8, 2012)

cate dean said:


> 2012 is my first year as a published author. The first few months - eh, not so great.
> 
> Then I released book 3 of my series at the end of October and set book 1 perma-free.
> 
> ...


This is good advice. The more the better. I have read many tales of people getting a sudden surge, kinda like a wire held taut before snapping violently. My pen names are more of a growing trickle, but I hope my novel-focus shares a similar path as you.


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## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

I've just spent a lot more time with this thread than I normally do. With each post, I let my mind drift off to the story that inevitably goes with each set of numbers. Hope, fear, exultation, concern, it's all here.

Thanks to everyone for being so willing to share.

My numbers are nothing special, and I've only got four months worth of them.  Maybe next year I can begin to participate in a year over year comparison.

I love KBWC. There's nothing else like it.


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

Victoria Champion said:


> Do you even realize how many of us are also erotica writers? So we write well in one genre but when we write erotica we toss aside our craft just for that genre?


Tell me about it. There has been quite a bit of assuming in this thread, and I think everyone at some point in their lives has had a teacher explain to them what assuming does.



CaseyHollingshead said:


> No other genre has anything close to that. No other genre is even so specific when it comes to eliciting an emotion or physical response.


I would imagine that what you just stated is a reason for many of us to concentrate on actually crafting a great story in that genre. It is a style of writing that has the reader begging for emotional gratification and physical response. While I agree that there are plenty of erotic stories out there that aren't good, I disagree that this is commonplace in the genre. The people who spam bad stories with no editing are the "get rich quick" schemers. They write a bunch of formulaic garbage, flood the market and give everyone a bad name.

I think most good erotica writers see the need for emotional and physical response from the reader as a gift or an extra incentive to produce quality stories. Knowing that this genre potentially provides a unique experience that cannot be found in other styles is a fantastic power to be able to wield. I believe that it takes great skill to craft an erotic story with which a reader can identify. Sure, anyone can write "porn on paper" and make a few bucks, but how many people can write an amazing story that stimulates someone on an emotional and physical level while making them feel as though they were actually there?


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Come on people. You can sell an erotica story for more money than you can sell a non-erotic story. It takes less effort to write 5K, no matter how difficult it is to write about sex, than it does to write 100K. That is undeniable. Since you can sell the 5K for the same price as the 100K, ergo, erotica is easier.

Now, I mean, it's not. Anyone who's tried to write it (yes, I'm guilty, and no, I won't tell you my super secret pen name--who, thank heaven, sells waaay less than the stuff I actually _like_ writing, or I'd have to write more of that stuff, and it's just too difficult to be fun for me) can tell you it's not easy. It's very difficult.

But acting as if selling erotica is not a different ballgame than selling anything else is like pretending that romance isn't the top-selling genre of books. Come on. Have you been inside a grocery store lately? See many science fiction paperbacks in there compared to romance?

Erotica is different. Doesn't mean it doesn't deserve respect. But it's not a level playing field out there, and erotica _is_ easier to sell than other genres, and it _does_ allow one to sell shorter stories at higher prices. This simply happens to be true.

But I take my hat off to anyone who manages to write a lot of it without dying of sheer boredom. (What do you do when you run out of names for body parts? I mean, seriously... )


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## Nathalie Hamidi (Jul 9, 2011)

Well, I can vouch that it's not easy AT ALL.
I think I've sold about a dozen of my short story.
A dozen!
And it has TENTACLES in it, I mean, who doesn't want that?


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> Come on people. You can sell an erotica story for more money than you can sell a non-erotic story. It takes less effort to write 5K, no matter how difficult it is to write about sex, than it does to write 100K. That is undeniable. Since you can sell the 5K for the same price as the 100K, ergo, erotica is easier.
> 
> Now, I mean, it's not. Anyone who's tried to write it (yes, I'm guilty, and no, I won't tell you my super secret pen name--who, thank heaven, sells waaay less than the stuff I actually _like_ writing, or I'd have to write more of that stuff, and it's just too difficult to be fun for me) can tell you it's not easy. It's very difficult.
> 
> ...


It's definitely easier in that you can sell shorter works for higher prices. It's tough in that you have to continuously come up with tons of different scenarios, stories names for body parts (as you mentioned) and so forth. You also have to be consistent when it comes to releases. If you're not releasing stories every week, your numbers begin to fall within a few months. Sales eventually decline on books in every genre, but in erotica, the rate at which one sees drops in sales will happen much faster due to the short length of stories, subject matter and competitiveness in the genre itself. It's certainly a different ballgame, that's for sure.

Writing 5k stories is quite easy for some people. For others, it's pretty tough. Though writing short works is easy for me, it does start to get boring after a while. At any rate, I think we can all agree that good erotica writers deserve a tip of the hat. There is a lot of competition out there, and there's also a flooding of the market by the "get rich quick" folks to worry about. 

Oh, and what does one do when they run out of names for body parts? Get creative!

_"I love the way you butter my toast, baby."

Roger knelt before her, his muscular frame glistening with perspiration against the dull glow of the overhead lamp. He leaned forward, running a finger over the soft loaf. His touch was delicate, yet his flesh was callused and rugged. It warned Melissa that there were two sides to this hulking Romeo.

What secrets were kept hidden behind those flowing tendrils of smoky brown hair? Could one communicate their innermost desires through a mere touch? Would each thrust of his muscular hips reveal the enigma locked within?

Roger smiled. "You want some pancakes?"

Melissa flicked her tongue against her lips, providing the moisture that they craved. "Give it to me Roger, along with a side of bacon."

"I see you're hungry."

"Oh yea, baby. I'm starving."_


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

David Scroggins said:


> _"I love the way you butter my toast, baby."
> 
> Roger knelt before her, his muscular frame glistening with perspiration against the dull glow of the overhead lamp. He leaned forward, running a finger over the soft loaf. His touch was delicate, yet his flesh was callused and rugged. It warned Melissa that there were two sides to this hulking Romeo.
> 
> ...


   





Do I just Paypal you my $2.99? How does this work? It was my first time.


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## Spinneyhead (Nov 4, 2010)

Nathalie Hamidi said:


> Well, I can vouch that it's not easy AT ALL.
> I think I've sold about a dozen of my short story.
> A dozen!
> And it has TENTACLES in it, I mean, who doesn't want that?


TENTACLES you say? You just made a sale


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## Nathalie Hamidi (Jul 9, 2011)

Spinneyhead said:


> TENTACLES you say? You just made a sale


Thanks for taking the time to read it.
Hope you enjoy it!


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

Hugh Howey said:


> Do I just Paypal you my $2.99? How does this work? It was my first time.


The first taste is always free, my friend. The next taste? I'm afraid it will be quite expensive.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I have deleted this post as I do not consent to the new Terms of Service that Vertical Scope are attempting to retrospectively apply to our content.  I am forced to manually replace my content as, at time of editing, their representative has instructed moderators not to delete posts or accounts when users request it, and Vertical Scope have implied that they will deal with account deletion requests by anonymising accounts, which would leave personally identifying information in my posts.

I joined under the previous ownership and have posted over the years under different Terms of Service.  I do not consent to my name, content, or intellectual properties being used by Vertical Scope or any other entity that they sell or licence my data to.


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## bellaandre (Dec 10, 2010)

2011 was amazing. 2012 was mind-blowing.   
Can't wait to see what 2013 will bring....

 Bella


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

I started self-pubbing in 2010, but didn't sell too much. I put my first erotic romances up in late 2010, and in 2011 the erotic romance ball really got rolling for me, and I sold a substantial amount (though more in the beginning of the year than the end, thanks to B&N's meddling with the bestseller list). This year my sales have been down by a third, despite seventeen new titles. Amazon is no longer doing really well for me, so I'm making changes-- putting the first titles in my series permanfree (if I can convince Amazon to do it!), uploading more stuff to iTunes via Smashwords, and getting onto ARe... plus writing lots more. Hopefully 2013 will be my big breakout year. 



> Since you can sell the 5K for the same price as the 100K, ergo, erotica is easier.


Perhaps. But erotica authors also have to contend with platforms that don't really like erotica being visible, so they knock it off the bestseller list and mess with the algos and filter stuff as "adult." You also have to brace for the ever-present possibility that the big sellers may decide to cut back on their erotica offerings, or get rid of it entirely. There are no guarantees.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Woo, it's 2013!

Did you guys become megablockuster billionaire tycoons in the last couple of days?


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## Sapphire (Apr 24, 2012)

My first novel hit Kindle in the last days of October, so I only had 2 months of sales in 2012.  It was excited to have finally published; I was ecstatic to have some sales.  However, the count was dismal.  I wish I had held back on publishing until the next book was finished.  In hind sight, I made a mistake.  I have 2 more books in the series that live only in my laptop and are still months away from seeing the light of the world.  I am pushing to get the second one out in the spring and the 3rd in the fall.  I can only imagine how much better it would have been if they had hit the market only a month apart.  So, I live and learn.  About Select, at this point I see little value there.  I did a 2-day free run early on, and a 3-day later.  Neither was very impressive.  In fact, I moved fewer books in the 3-day than in the 2-day.  Perhaps, having just one title was a factor in that, also.  I'm looking forward to 2013.  My numbers have to be better!


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

Well, if I add in the sales for the anthology I packaged, as well as its individual short stories, then Steel Magnolia Press managed to sell just over 100,000 ebooks. Here's what will go down in the 2012 ledger:

100,397 - sales (sales+borrows) 
607,539 - freebies

Sales today have so far been brisk, but I'm betting it's holiday traffic and not normal. Plus we have a title sitting at #111 Paid right now that's helping things along. Still, if we manage to sell on average per day the number we've sold so far today (510 sales/120 borrows at 4:00pm CT), we'll have a quarter million sales in 2013. Of course, we also plan to put out another 30 titles during the year. Which reminds me, I've got some formatting to do...  

So, Sara, I showed you mine; are you going to show me yours?


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Well, if I add in the sales for the anthology I packaged, as well as its individual short stories, then Steel Magnolia Press managed to sell just over 100,000 ebooks. Here's what will go down in the 2012 ledger:
> 
> 100,397 - sales (sales+borrows)
> 607,539 - freebies
> ...


Goodness gracious, woman. Look at you.

I think I've mentioned this in other threads, but it looks like I had about 42,238 sales (not including December's non-Amazon numbers), and 263,876 freebies. Aside from the general increase in volume from 2011, that's a really big improvement in the sales:freebies ratio for me. Here's hoping 2013 is even better! Although I don't expect to approach anywhere near a quarter of a million sales. Toes crossed for another 50k, though.


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## PhoenixS (Apr 5, 2011)

smreine said:


> I think I've mentioned this in other threads, but it looks like I had about 42,238 sales (not including December's non-Amazon numbers), and 263,876 freebies. Aside from the general increase in volume from 2011, that's a really big improvement in the sales:freebies ratio for me. Here's hoping 2013 is even better! Although I don't expect to approach anywhere near a quarter of a million sales. Toes crossed for another 50k, though.


Wowza!! 

You've had some new releases in just the past couple of months and lots of new releases planned, right? I'm betting you more than double this year's sales. I'm gonna predict 100K for you in 2013 - easy!

Interesting on the sales ratios. We've both got roughly a 1 sale to 6 freebies ratio going.


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## 41413 (Apr 4, 2011)

Phoenix Sullivan said:


> Wowza!!
> 
> You've had some new releases in just the past couple of months and lots of new releases planned, right? I'm betting you more than double this year's sales. I'm gonna predict 100K for you in 2013 - easy!
> 
> Interesting on the sales ratios. We've both got roughly a 1 sale to 6 freebies ratio going.


From your lips to Jeff Bezos's ears.

My ratio was more like 1:10 in 2011, so 1:6 is good enough for me!


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