# Author Chat...



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Thumper said in another post "I am really uncomfortable with too much self promotion, but a place to connect with other writers, where anyone can lurk whether they write or not, that would be awesome."

That thread turned ugly, but this concept never really took root... 

Such as:

My character is taking over my book.  I'm writing the sequel to Painting the Roses Red and Rianna doesn't want to do anything I ask her to do.  Now, I'm not this kind of writer.  I don't have characters that boss me around.  I'm the writer.  They do what I say... until now... until Rianna... if I let her keep this up, I'm afraid I won't have a plot at the end of the book?

Trish


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Trish:

My characters, once they come to life are allowed to assist in their destiny. I find that if I chatise them or restrict them too much, they fix my wagon and make the book a monstrous failure. It is for that reason I never work with an outline and write from a scattering of notes. Also most of my writing his a head trip. When I call a meeting of the charcters (every time I sit down to write), they usually win out. That's because writing is a collaboration between me, my universe, my characters and . . . mostly, my readers.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

I usually start out thinking I know exactly how a book is going to end, what's going to happen; the characters drive the story, though, and nearly every time I've had to change my own expectations. And the characters are usually right, and they end things much better than according to my original intentions.

My current work in progress has taken turns I didn't quite expect; I do know there are certain things that have to happen, but I've been surprised a few times how those things have taken shape. I'll just let things happen, and fix mistakes in subsequent drafts.


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

--Rianna doesn't want to do anything I ask her to do--

You created her. Without you she's nothing. Be firm.

Ultimately, the characters answer to the plot, since the plot is their world. Now and again they can shape it, but not much. The creator--you, me, any writer--is the whole of the law.

I don't push my characters around, but they all have destinies to fulfill.

Writerly regards,

CK


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

I use a "sort of" outline. Basically, that means I start out with an idea and enough plot to get me through 50 or so pages. After that, things sometimes take on a life of their own.

I now only outline 3 or 4 chapters in advance of what I'm writing. That allows me to strive for something, even if I can't see the end clearly.

When I get an idea, I jot things down very quickly. I have nothing... I have nothing... then suddenly 10 chapters worth of material springs to being.

Before, when I always saw the end, things ended up muddled. It almost feels more organic to let the characters have a little control. If they want to go left instead of right, it almost makes them seem more alive and real.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I usually create iconic pillars — scenes or situations that I feel will most engage the reader and challenge the characters. I see them in my mind and often talk them out months in advance of writing. Working on Epic fantasy novels seeped in sinology needs a long settling time in the mind. I even speak the dialog many times before going to paper. I sometimes (in my shorter works) write a play first. However, it never fails, about a third of the material never winds up in print, and that which does is highly diluted (as it should be), and if it isn't, I catch it in the 3rd or 4th revision, when it's crunch time. To me outlining is like trying to capture the sea in a bottle and expect it to hold water. Instead we capture the reader in a bottle, put a lid on it and hope to hatch butterflies. 'Twere a goal to strive toward, methinks mayhap.

Edward C. Patterson


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

This is all great insight.  I don't mind so much when a character tells me how they're going to react to something -- that I consider natural.  But Rianna?  She's just gone too far.  She wants to change the plot.  I figure it's my job to create her world and the situation and it's her job to tell me how she's going to deal with it.  We all have our own styles of dealing with it.

So... I found this great little thread where everyone is listing 25 random things about them.  It's a wonderful little thread.  There are 18 pages of random little things about real people that make for great fodder for filling out walk-in characters.  I've done a lot of things to give life to the little characters that are not the main ones.  I've rolled up D&D characters.  I've heard of one author who just jotted them down whenever and kept a file of them.  

What do you folks do to flesh out those characters who only walk into the book for a page or two?


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Not an author - loving this insight!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Trish:

I take a page from Dickens. Whenever I have an action needed by an "incidental" character, I try to recycle that action to an already existing character. Of course, it adds to the existing character's chops and will inevitably change the direction of some time continuum. I don;t believe in plot. I believe that a story is the sum of characterization, description and tone. Rather than form a "plotline" I prefer to suggest a pathway for the read to take a journey, one that is slightly different for each reader. Now back to your question. If you have a "walk-on" character, have them truly blend into the environment. Describe them as part of the furniture, or in terms of the carpeting. It makes them more memorable and contributes to the universal weave of the work.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Besides being a deep reader of the human heart and an incomparable stylist, Dickens was an exceptional plotter, and his ability to pull together diverse threads and gather them in a smooth, close knot at the end is consummate craftsmanship. Bleak House is one of my favorite books of all time.

Nothing taught me more about writing for profit than my participation in the first Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award competition. Unlike this year's contest, it was peer-reviewed at the outset, and most readers (my Publishers Weekly reviewer in particular) demanded storyline above all, wanting to be hooked from the jump. My own entry (contemporary fiction, not fantasy) made it to the semifinals and garnered terrific reviews for characterization and style, but the contest's winner was a readily marketable noir thriller with a protagonist very much on a mission. 

Schooled for the rewrite,

CK

Regarding 'walk-on' characters, mine serve as foils to the main players and/or provide catalysts for key events. They're usually colorful and fun.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

vwkitten said:



> What do you folks do to flesh out those characters who only walk into the book for a page or two?


I try to make sure I know a lot about each character, major or minor, before they make an appearance; once in a while that minor walk-in/walk-out character turns out to be critical to the story, and knowing as much about them as you can ahead of time makes it easier to expand their role.

Like Edward, though, if the character is truly incidental I try to plop the action onto an established character; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, and when it doesn't there's a lot of me sitting there seething and grumbling about having to rewrite huge chunks of manuscript.

For the most part, though, I develop character biographies--everything from birth date and personal descriptions to whether or not they're lactose intolerant--so that I can stay as true to them as possible. In my work-in-progress I have a character who will only be there for 3-4 pages, but I know enough about him to understand why he's arrogant, why he seems lazy, and why he walks off the page without a fight; he's necessary because he highlights a potentially unlikeable trait in a main character, and the reader will think he's a jerk, but deep down *I* know he's a wounded soul and simply terribly confused. If I know that, then perhaps I'll be able to write for him in a way that makes him seem real, and not the prop he could be.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

> You created her. Without you she's nothing. Be firm.
> 
> Ultimately, the characters answer to the plot, since the plot is their world. Now and again they can shape it, but not much. The creator--you, me, any writer--is the whole of the law.
> 
> I don't push my characters around, but they all have destinies to fulfill.


In your case, plot is very important (or so it seems anyway). Just by looking at your cover, I'm guessing you're involved in a fantasy series. That kind of work does need to be plotted, because you're right, characters DO have certain destinies. The prince has to marry the virgin off-worlder to beget the son that never should have been so that drama and crisis can ensue.

But in a lot of other books, characters have a way of nudging the author to go down different corridors. My story-writing mind hates when that happens, and usually that extra stuff gets edited out. My genre is thrillers, so normally I have to stick tightly to a plot as well. But sometimes the journey is special and leads to new horizons.

It depends.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm one of those silly old fashioned authors (like Dickens) that believe that "a plot" is the result of the character, events and story arc, and (like themes - which are best grafted on) is as much the result of accident in the first draft than of design. Otherwise the story is plot-driven, and that, in my humble opinion, is a weight that is sometimes insurmountable. I know that some "genres" call for "more" plot than others, but I strive to transcend "genre." One of my books, I label as a "mystery," and it is a whodunit, of sorts - but it turns out to be a character journey, a marriage of disparate parts into a harmonious whole, which in fact is my own view of novel craft. Write with your heart, edit with your mind, instill the work with poetry and humor, and the book will author itself. 

Dickens sometimes over-plotted, and it was not a fault, because he was writing a species of novels that required contant plot twists - serial novels. My own main work started out as a serial novel (and first published that way). Dickens relies on coincidence quite often to conclude his story strands. He, like Tolkien, manage to tie up every one. (Stephen King in The Stand solved his runaway story strands by "blowing them all up," literally). However, Dickens was also a master of "hanging lanterns" on logical lapses. We only find them upon close scrutiny (and they abound), but such logic lapses should abound in all our works, and every author must master the art of "hanging the lantern on them."

Edward C. Patterson


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Many of Kurt Vonnegut's rules for short stories can be applied to novels, and I was following them long before I read his list:

1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.

2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.

3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.

4. Every sentence must do one of two things -- reveal character or advance the action.

5. Start as close to the end as possible.

6. Be a sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them -- in order that the reader may see what they are made of.

7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To heck with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages. 

*****

#3 is key, for me. #5 isn't easy, and some rules are meant to be broken.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> 3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.
> 
> 4. Every sentence must do one of two things -- reveal character or advance the action.
> 
> ...


Now That's what I'm talking about! Very yummy. I'm going to post some of these up so I can stay on track. As a writer, I think we know a lot of this intrinsically, but we lose sight of it through our own doubts or waffling. Well, you know what I mean.

I adore the pneumonia one! I hate being a sadist to my characters, but oh so very true. And I think a lot of authors need to paste #4 to the bottom of their monitors - it's so hard to remember.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Carolyn:

Good set of rules - all meant to be broken.  I generally feed off my reader's response to validate the results of my style. I've been fortunate. I never went to school for writing (part of a Ph. D. in Sinology, but no Creative Writing course 1.1). I, instead, was nurtured by professionals who rejected me. (he he, sounds contradictory, but it's really ironic). My first publisher gave me a wealth of do's and dont's, and then her publishing house bellied up. My first editor once labeled my favorite Chapter in a book with "I have only one question about this chapter. Why?" I owe her a great deal as she was like a wicked step mother or a Nun with a ruler. My first rejection came with a wonderful letter saying (I paraphrase) - "You're talented but you need to address the following a) b) c). My first agent turned out to be a poor agent, but a wonderful editor and writer, who helped refine my style. And then I had a fleet of beta-readers, who embraced me and also heaped on criticism. And finally, Mundania Press almost accepted a work, but along the way gave me great feedback - so much so, that by the time I received their cordial rejection, I had already published 5 books Independently, had my land legs and readers. The readers said - "Let that Hoot Bird fly," and so I let it sail. I acknowledge Mundania and thank them for the rejection in the Acknowledgements of my books. _*O Fortuna*_. A contract, an editor from hell (a good hell), an angel agent, and 2 favorable rejections. It's called - breaking the rules.

BTW, speaking of rules, I assume that every author piping in here has read Stephen King's On Writing - IMHO, the best damned volume on the craft ever stroked.

For your convenience, if you haven't read it.


Edward C. Patterson


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Dave Dykema said:


> Just by looking at your cover, I'm guessing you're involved in a fantasy series.


Actually it's a paranormal romance series, and I don't post my book cover in my posts here anymore. I'm gun-shy of the advertising accusations. My personal picture is just some of my artwork. My book cover looks a lot better than that.

(--edit-- changed pic again to another little piece of artwork -- I'm still futzing with what I want to use)



Dave Dykema said:


> But in a lot of other books, characters have a way of nudging the author to go down different corridors. My story-writing mind hates when that happens, and usually that extra stuff gets edited out. My genre is thrillers, so normally I have to stick tightly to a plot as well. But sometimes the journey is special and leads to new horizons.
> 
> It depends.


Again, that's why I wanted this thread. I want us to have a place to share our experiences like this without fear of offending someone with a reference to a current book. We're in the same boat, on the same team here. The more we share like this, the better we'll all be as authors.

Thrillers. I'm interested in your creative throught processes for plot... will you share more please?


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> Regarding 'walk-on' characters, mine serve as foils to the main players and/or provide catalysts for key events. They're usually colorful and fun.


AND



Thumper said:


> ...but I know enough about him to understand why he's arrogant, why he seems lazy, and why he walks off the page without a fight; he's necessary because he highlights a potentially unlikeable trait in a main character, and the reader will think he's a jerk, but deep down *I* know he's a wounded soul and simply terribly confused. If I know that, then perhaps I'll be able to write for him in a way that makes him seem real, and not the prop he could be.


I do that too. A walk-on character needs to reveal something important. I think it adds such depth to understand their characters as if they were full-fledged characters even if we never write all that we know about each one of them.

Trish


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

ECP noted: --Good set of rules - all meant to be broken.   --

Well, I *try* not to break Rule #1. 

CK


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Germaine to this conversation, I am the guest blogger on the Jerry Race M/M Blog. I'k reporting the blog content here. (No link for delicacy - it's a Men/Men site and has an adult button, but my content is PG. There's a slight gay slant, because the blogsite's audience are mostly gay).

*Striving to Engage the Reader
by Edward C. Patterson*

My approach to authoring books is not unique, but I believe it is lost in some quarters. Many times books are conceived as the author's self expression, disregarding the reader. Readers become outsiders looking in, fishing around for ephemeral meanings and significant themes. At other times, authors attempt to pander to reader's likes and dislikes, setting quotas on sex or violence, creating plot-driven sequences meant to fill-in rainy Tuesdays. There's nothing wrong with this approach. It's just not my approach.

I strive to engage the reader, challenging them to think. Not only should they put one word in front of the other to achieve an end, they should collaborate with me and complete my thoughts; escape to a world that we both share. I do not aim at a mass audience, or even a gay audience. Although all my books have gay characters and many have gay themes, I write for just one reader and don't care about their sexual orientation. I present that reader with living, breathing characters, who stick in their mind and lodge in their cares. Story is almost immaterial. The journey is the thing; a path that glues the reader to the page as they turn and turn and turn . . . An escape - a refuge.

Into this stew pot of authoring, I inject my experiences. I have degrees in Chinese History and have traveled extensively. As such, my longest works, _The Jade Owl Legacy _ series is China-themed and _The Academician _ is a tale of 12th Century China. I have an affinity for fantasy, so alternate realities play a role in my books. As a gay activist with many years in service to the cause, books like _Turning Idolater_, _No Irish Need Apply _ and _Cutting the Cheese _ are gay-dominant, although you might be surprised that these have been embraced by the non-gay community. I feel ambassadorial. _Bobby's Trace _ spans both the gay-themed and the fantasy worlds; and, as a gay-veteran (1966-6, I have a military tale based on my experiences in the U.S. Army in 1967 (_Surviving an American Gulag_).

My latest work is the third installment of _The Jade Owl Legacy _ series, called _The Dragon's Pool_. Like its two predecessors, it revels in the nexus of the modern and ancient world and continues the epic of a band of characters that have been well received by readers of the series.

I am currently working on two new works - the second installment of the _Southern Swallow _ series, entitled _The Nan Tu (The Southern Migration)_, an historical fantasy recounting the bifurcation of the Sung Dynasty during the early 12th Century. It will continue to explore the contours of human sexuality in medieval China. The other work is a romance in the time of AIDS, entitled _Look Away Silence_, a work that channels many of my own experiences as an AIDS service volunteer and takes a side-glance at the Gay and Lesbian Association of Choruses (GALA).

My motto will continue to be - _Write with your heart, edit with your mind, instill the work with poetry and humor, and the book will author itself. From my mind to your imagination . . ._

An excerpt from _The Dragon's Pool _ can be read at author's den:
http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewwork.asp?id=33323.
A complete list of my novels can be viewed at my website, Dancaster Creative
http://www.dancaster/com

Edward C. Patterson


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Interesting perspective Ed.

Writing is such a personal thing.  The way we write is as individual as the foods we like to eat and probably as necessary as eating food to most of us.  Otherwise how could we possibly put up with the well... torture of publishing?  

In the spirit of turning this thread away from stoic lessons in writing, here's another question:  Write down the first number that comes to your head... How many people told you that you were crazy or couldn't do it?

Trish


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

14 and several hundred. The more that say NAY, the more I say STAY.

Ed P


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> Thrillers. I'm interested in your creative throught processes for plot... will you share more please?


Before I answer that question, I wanted to clarify that the cover I was talking about and assuming it was fantasy was Carolyn Kephart's. With this post I think I've figured out how to quote from the posts and list who said what. I hope so.

Anyway, in regard to your question (or is it regards? I always have trouble with that one--not that I use it very often...).

I'm like a lot of authors, I think, in that we ask "What if?" when we come across things. My next book, _Wrong Number_, concerns a lonely guy finding a phone number in a parking lot of a bar and deciding to call it.

From real life, we've all seen numbers scrawled on bathroom stalls. Most of the time we laugh or scoff, but I don't think there's a person alive who hasn't thought _once_ what might happen if they actually called this person. Would they really be sexually kinky as advertised? Would they be crazy? Would they be nice and normal? Would they be the victim of a prank or angry ex-boyfriend? Did they sneak in and write it themselves? Why would they do that? To find a boyfriend, or to play a trick on the guy that called?

That situation alone yields many questions. I just find the one that sets off the most bells in me and work with it. In my case, I actually did find a phone number written on a scrap of paper blowing around and wondered "Did this call ever take place?"

After that, since it's a thriller, I apply Vonnegut's Rule #6 over and over. Dig him in deeper, dig him in deeper. Be a sadist.

Then I sit back and watch him try to crawl his way out.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

_<cautiously opening the door to the smoke-filled authors' room to poke my head in>_
It is absolutely fascinating to eavesdrop on you guys.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I was in the stall at the movies and there was only one piece of graffiti on the all orange brick wall. It read: "This Brick is Orange." How profound. Almost as profound as the sign on the Raritan River railroad trestle bridge that reads: "River." Sometimes a river needs a sign to notice it, and even an orange brick. Of well. I'll sigh and flush, and wash thoroughly in these days to swine flu.

Edward C. Patterson


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Ah... author orgasms... those significant little tidbits that spark our imaginations.  I love those.

So I sat there looking at a plot that was old and stale and I thought... what if the girl doesn't fall for the guy coming out of the time portal?  What if the young actress chose the phantom instead of the rich, handsome guy?  Those are mine.

(*whispers* and anyone's welcome to come take a peek and say hi...)


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> Trish


The link to The Crow and The Unicorn is working, Trish. Here is one. Bought it, by the way.
The Crow and the Unicorn (Lamoree Fables)


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Trish suggested: --Write down the first number that comes to your head--

Five. It's my favorite.

--How many people told you that you were crazy or couldn't do it?--

Only my parents, and of course I didn't listen to them. 

CK

Edited to note that I have lots of writerly observations on my website, under the Biography link. And also that I'm surprised and delighted by all the Views this thread is getting!


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

intinst said:


> The link to The Crow and The Unicorn is working, Trish. Here is one. Bought it, by the way.
> The Crow and the Unicorn (Lamoree Fables)


I just adore you... you know that right? =)

Trish


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Carolyn Kephart said:


> Only my parents, and of course I didn't listen to them.


Wow -- how lucky. Mine was just the opposite. My mother and my immediate family supported me. Everyone else said I was crazy to try to write and get published.

Actually not quite true. A long time ago, I was writing poetry in a quiet little corner of my life (stacks of it) and this teacher picked up my pile and turned it in to the high school literary magazine. He told me about it when I got 5 poems accepted that year (they usually only allow 3 per student). It's not proof of talent (sheesh it was just high school) but it woke me up. It took me another 20 years to write my first full novel.

Trish


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Trish:

The link in your signature block is broken, so I've added this link for reference (and, of course, bought the book):



Edward C. Patterson


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

(I fixed the link in your signature, vwkitten.)  - Harvey


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Thanks Harvey and Intinst for fixing the link!  How rude of me not to have checked it.  I'm sorry.

Thanks Ed for letting me know and buying the story.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> What do you folks do to flesh out those characters who only walk into the book for a page or two?


I sometimes try to give them a little quirk of some sort to keep them memorable. The downside is that some readers may consider that cliche.

For instance, I'll give them an accent, like "Goin' to do somethin' today."

Sometimes I put friends in there, like a quick cameo.

Granted, it's all a little gimicky...


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm reading Anthony's Dark Side of the Spectrum and his characters are great.  I think it's worth it to spend the extra time to give those characters full development.  It gives good depth.

Heck, in my case, I'm not even sure if Rianna is going to pick up one of these characters and make them more of a walk-on part, so I had better be ready.

In my first book, I was writing to a format and I don't think it's the best that I can do.  I want to give it more.  With Rianna, I think I've decided to give her a little more free rein.  I want to see where she's going.  I hope my readers know that I'm just budding as a writer right now.  If I treat them right, they'll bear with me while I grow.  I mean, aren't we all just trying to be better writers each time we sit down and put fingers to keyboard?

Ah heck, I'm rambling...
Trish


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

I don't normally like to double post and I'm not randomly bumping, but I just found a great little secret that all of us Kindle authors should know.

If you post your book at $.99, Amazon doesn't discount it.  If you post your book at $1.00, Amazon will discount it %20 to $.80.  Oooo -- win win!  It's not much, but... hey... save the readers $.19 per book and we still get our royalties at the $1.00 mark.  At least it worked for me... I'll keep you updated if it changes.

Happy Reading all,
Trish


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

That's why I posted "Stalker" at $1.00. It's a win/win for everyone.

Of course, if you're dead set at pricing your book at $.99, you should price it at $1.24. More royalties for you...people still buy it at $.99!

Evil laugh, rubs hands diabolically together...


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## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Am I the only KB author who doesn't own a Kindle?

I feel so horribly left out.

Still saving my coins.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> Am I the only KB author who doesn't own a Kindle?
> 
> I feel so horribly left out.
> 
> Still saving my coins.


Not at all! I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I can't afford one. I've promised myself one as soon as my royalties hit the purchase price, but ... for now, all I can do is borrow my mother's once in a while (she just got hers and brought it with her while she visited her grandbaby).


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> Wow -- how lucky. Mine was just the opposite. My mother and my immediate family supported me. Everyone else said I was crazy to try to write and get published.
> 
> 
> vwkitten said:
> ...


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Hello Everyone, my name is Brendan Carroll.  I have written a number of novels.  Seven are currently on Kindle. I'm pretty shy about self-promotion, but this sounds like people with like minds.  I have a full time job that unfortunately takes me away from my writing, but I have always dreamed that I would be a writer.  My main character is really my BFF and a fine figure of a woman, I might add.  My main male character is hopelessly in love with her though this is a problem from the start because he's supposed to be a celibate warrior monk and to top it all off, he's about 850 years old and has a terrible temper and a charming Scottish brogue.  She's a Texas girl with a lover that he has to get rid of first.  Great fun.


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## Meredith Sinclair (May 21, 2009)

Hey Brendan, glad you finally decided to join us! I am actually new here as well, and must say I found out about this Board from another Board I was on. You know I am a huge fan, and can't wait to talk to other fans about your books.

Your #1 fan and main character!

Meredith Sinclair


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> Am I the only KB author who doesn't own a Kindle?
> 
> I feel so horribly left out.
> 
> Still saving my coins.


Hey don't feel bad, I don't have one of the jewels either, but I'm putting away the pennies in the jar for one. Maybe one of my peeps will buy one for me for Christmas.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> Ah... author orgasms... those significant little tidbits that spark our imaginations. I love those.
> 
> So I sat there looking at a plot that was old and stale and I thought... what if the girl doesn't fall for the guy coming out of the time portal? What if the young actress chose the phantom instead of the rich, handsome guy? Those are mine.
> 
> (*whispers* and anyone's welcome to come take a peek and say hi...)


So you certainly seem like you're an old hand at this chatting/forum thing. I'm not sure I've got the hang of it. Do you just throw things from your head out there and see if anyone responds? Like author orgasms? That's an interesting concept. Is that when you suddenly get a new idea for one of your characters to experience?


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> So you certainly seem like you're an old hand at this chatting/forum thing. I'm not sure I've got the hang of it. Do you just throw things from your head out there and see if anyone responds? Like author orgasms? That's an interesting concept. Is that when you suddenly get a new idea for one of your characters to experience?


ROFL -- I'm actually surprised I didn't get dinged for that one. For me, an author orgasm is anything that just sets off all those creative tinglies that make our characters, plot, or background jump off the page and straight into a reader's heart.

Old hand... nah... I'm just faking it. *big grins* I think I just decided that with this thread... I wanted to set a tone that said this was just us... not that others couldn't look in, but we weren't going to be editing our thoughts or thought processes. I wanted to talk about our books without having to um... edit the flow to um... oh heck... I just wanted one thread where we could think out loud without worrying about someone being offending by "advertising." *don't hit me - I said the evil word* LOL -- gotta laugh through it.

And I'm so glad you joined us... have a seat... coffee? beer? vodka? Don't mind the smoke... it's virtual so it can only lead to virtual cancer.

Hugs all...
Trish


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Thanks for the reply.  Sometimes it seems like I'm out here all alone.  Glad to know that someone else is faking it... that's a good word for me... I am in love with all my characters.  The love is real, just the characters are fake... real to me... I know you know what I mean.  They are quite demanding, aren't they?  Sometimes people ask me how in the world I keep up with all of them and I have to say that I do have a few notes like which side of the face the scar is on, you know?  But they are all very plainly separated and individual in my head.  And when they come out on paper... or ether, they just play along.  Fantasy, fantasy, it's what makes the world go around.  LOL.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Meredith Sinclair said:


> Hey Brendan, glad you finally decided to join us! I am actually new here as well, and must say I found out about this Board from another Board I was on. You know I am a huge fan, and can't wait to talk to other fans about your books.
> 
> Your #1 fan and main character!
> 
> Meredith Sinclair


How did I know you would find me here? Of you are and I am your fan as well. Thanx.


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## WoodWitchDame (Jan 3, 2009)

rjkeller said:


> Am I the only KB author who doesn't own a Kindle?
> 
> I feel so horribly left out.
> 
> Still saving my coins.


Hi everyone - I am very new here, and I am a fellow author on Kindle who doesn't actually own one... yet. So don't feel bad.

I'm Melanie Nowak and my vampire series ALMOST HUMAN came out on Kindle last July and just came out in paperback last month. I've posted very sparingly here on Kindleboards because, to be quite honest, it's kind of intimidating. I've been very active in the Amazon forums and love to chat with readers and other authors, but I just can't seem to get the hang of things here and find my way around.

Anyway, I've decided to try and dive in again - so, nice to meet you all!


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

WoodWitchDame said:


> Hi everyone - I am very new here, and I am a fellow author on Kindle who doesn't actually own one... yet. So don't feel bad.
> 
> I'm Melanie Nowak and my vampire series ALMOST HUMAN came out on Kindle last July and just came out in paperback last month. I've posted very sparingly here on Kindleboards because, to be quite honest, it's kind of intimidating. I've been very active in the Amazon forums and love to chat with readers and other authors, but I just can't seem to get the hang of things here and find my way around.
> 
> Anyway, I've decided to try and dive in again - so, nice to meet you all!


I'm new here, too and trying to do the same. So just wanted to say hello and let you know that Vampires Rock! I love vampires and even worked one or two into my novels at one time or another. That's what I love about writing and writing fiction and fantasy, You Can Do Whatever You Like with your characters and they always go right along with you like you have good sense. My lead character did really well during his encounter with the Undead and I was quite pleased with his performance. My leading lady character was unappreciative I think, but she hasn't really gotten that far in the series yet. Yeah, yeah Meredith, I know, but it takes time. Welcome aboard!


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi, Melanie, and grats for finding your way here. 

It's enjoyable to have a thread to talk about the actual act of writing, rather than self-promotion...we can (and do) create dedicated threads for hawking our wares, but this one could be the inkslinger's hangout, where we could trade observations and tips, things that inspire us, things that madden us, etc.

For instance: I had so many duplicate versions of ongoing projects, collections of old files, photos, etc. on my computer that it was becoming an annoyance. I found a freeware program called DupKiller that made organizing everything a snap. I recommend it to everyone. 

Also...has anyone here been hit by the New Folder virus? It's really diabolical, and took much cleverness on the part of its creator.

CK


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

No. Please do some 'splainin'. 

Ed P


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Hey Melanie, I noticed that on your kindle book site when I clicked to look at your book, you have your blog is listed on there.  I'd like to know, if you care sharing, how did you get this on there.  I would love to have one on mine.  Your new fan, Brendan


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

edwpat said:


> No. Please do some 'splainin'.
> 
> Ed P


About the New Folder virus? It's pandemic. If you start seeing mysterious New Folder icons on your deskstop, you've got it. I discuss my battle with it in a recent blog post.

CK


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Whew! Just checked. I got the same old sh*t on my desktop. I did get tissues with pig designs on them as a gift from a friend returning from Cancun.

Ed P


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

You're lucky, Ed, to have escaped the scourge. It gets into one's machine via thumb drives, so be careful what you insert. 

My blog post 'The TMI Age' talks about New Folder, Sting, and the kind of anomie that results, oddly, from too much communication.

CK


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## WoodWitchDame (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi Carolyn! Thanks for the welcome!

Haven't encountered that virus... yet {knocks on wood} 
Dupkiller sounds pretty cool though! I am constantly trying to figure out which versions of things I can delete.

Brendan - As far as characters go... I have a few that are a bit -shall we say- strong willed. One vampire vixen in particular refuses to follow my outlines. She enters a scene and suddenly, as her, I know exactly what she'll do, and as the author I'm thinking "Stop it! You're messing up the whole story - stick to the outline!" But she will not be ignored, does just what she pleases, and honestly - I've found that warping things to her demands tends to improve the final outcome! Somehow I manage to get things back on track, better for the detour. My vampire Cain is similar. His code of ethics keeps altering what I'd like him to do - can't help but love him for it though. I have another human male who can be awfully stubborn as well.

I'm constantly plagued by the question of whether I am bending the story to fit my "characters" new ideas, or if some sub-concious part of my brain that I am unaware of, actually has everything perfectly worked out already. It's just amazing how many times something I think is an unforseen twist to the plot turns out to fit absolutely brilliantly into the rest of the puzzle. Scary.

Okay... if you have decided that I am schizophrenic, do I still get to stay and chat? I hope I haven't scared everyone away after the kind welcome, LOL


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

WoodWitchDame said:


> Brendan - As far as characters go... I have a few that are a bit -shall we say- strong willed. One vampire vixen in particular refuses to follow my outlines. She enters a scene and suddenly, as her, I know exactly what she'll do, and as the author I'm thinking "Stop it! You're messing up the whole story - stick to the outline!" But she will not be ignored, does just what she pleases, and honestly - I've found that warping things to her demands tends to improve the final outcome! Somehow I manage to get things back on track, better for the detour. My vampire Cain is similar. His code of ethics keeps altering what I'd like him to do - can't help but love him for it though. I have another human male who can be awfully stubborn as well.
> 
> I'm constantly plagued by the question of whether I am bending the story to fit my "characters" new ideas, or if some sub-concious part of my brain that I am unaware of, actually has everything perfectly worked out already. It's just amazing how many times something I think is an unforseen twist to the plot turns out to fit absolutely brilliantly into the rest of the puzzle. Scary.


You're right on the mark about it being scary, but don't feel like the Lone Stranger. All those character-imposed twists and turns seem to work out just fine and yes I do believe that our subconscious sometimes knows what is best for us and maybe we need to pay more attention to it. In fact, some people find it impossible to believe that I work entirely without an outline at all. Notes, ideas and possible outcomes are all I have and my fingers and mind just lead the way. Most of my notes come after the fact, where I write down what my characters did so that I can remember later on. They get angry when I put them in a blue Mercedes and then out of nowhere have them driving a white Audi. I do believe that sometimes they are quite disdainful of me. Now if that doesn't put us in a fine boat together, I don't know what does. So hey, if no one else understands and talks to you... I will!


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

Wow, I should have come to this thread a long time ago!

Good to see the talk from all of the authors here on characters.  That to me can be more challenging than coming up with a good plot.  Since I write scifi/fantasy, I'm constantly trying to strike a balance between making my characters relate to the reader without losing their significant alien qualities.  The best way I can think of doing this is during dialogue; I strive to make the characters talk to each other in a way that is believable, as if you were hearing two people conversing on the street or in a restaurant.  I also try not to make them Clockwork orange in their development-meaning that just because a person is confident as a general rule does not mean they will express one hundred percent confidence one hundred percent of the time (This does more to dehumanize a character IMO than anything).  

Really, in the end, it's a balancing act, making your characters believable within an unbelievable world (at least in my genre).  I referred to this in another thread: you can have the greatest scifi plot or technology ever conceived in your novel, but if you can't be drawn to the characters at all, you've got a hollow story.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Wow oh wow -- I go away for a day and all you wonderful people show up -- Welcome welcome!!

Gosh yes, we have to be a bit crazy in our writing but you are so not alone.  As you can see, most of us are just as worried about our sanity because we are going through the same things.  I'm so glad you are all here to talk about it, so none of us feel alone...

I just got this marvelous breakthrough on my sequel to Painting the Roses Red.  My mother asked me for a mystery and I just couldn't see how to dump a dead body into the middle of the story...but the story wasn't going anywhere... then I made the long drive from Las Vegas to Bakersfield and figured it all out.  Now both the mystery and the love/magic story work.  I'm so excited (author orgasm?) LOL.  I won't spoil it for anyone but, sigh, it's just as twisted as the first book and that's what I really wanted.  Now if I could just get Rianna to accept just a little bit of Cinderella... I'd be set, but she keeps sticking her tongue out at me.

Hugs and Happy Writing,
Trish


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

J Dean said:


> Wow, I should have come to this thread a long time ago!
> 
> The best way I can think of doing this is during dialogue; I strive to make the characters talk to each other in a way that is believable, as if you were hearing two people conversing on the street or in a restaurant.
> Really, in the end, it's a balancing act, making your characters believable within an unbelievable world (at least in my genre). I referred to this in another thread: you can have the greatest scifi plot or technology ever conceived in your novel, but if you can't be drawn to the characters at all, you've got a hollow story.


I might be cheating here a bit, because I have two people reading aloud to me as I edit so that I can actually hear how it sounds in dialog. That way I can correct anything that sounds stiff or unrealistic. Have you tried this?


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## WoodWitchDame (Jan 3, 2009)

I have every conversation out loud to myself several times. I try to make sure I am alone first though, LOL.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Did I mention that one of my readers is male and one is female so I can hear both sides of the coin?  Of course, they don't get both parts down with equal alacrity.  But we have as much fun making voice-0's as I do reading type-0's.  LOL.


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## WoodWitchDame (Jan 3, 2009)

Brendan - 
It's great that you have such help at your disposal! As for me, I enjoy doing all the "voices" myself and couldn't write any other way. I have theater background and before I ever dreamed of writing I was always an avid reader. My favorite part of reading was to do the dialogue out loud so I could hear and 'play with' the inflection of voice. 

I spent the first few months that I lived with my husband wondering how I was ever going to enjoy reading again without making him think I was crazy, LOL. I finally had to come clean after the 3rd time he came into the bedroom and said "Who were you talking to". I guess "reading aloud" is a better answer than "the guy under the bed"  Hahaha. 

Now he and my kids don't think twice - when they hear me talking to myself, they just say "Mom's writing". I'm constantly "running lines" while doing dishes, yard work or whatever. That way, by the time I get to sit at the computer, it's already all written in my head and just needs typing.


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

I made a calendar once to keep track of dates. It was very helpful, because before I had it I kept writing things like, "The next day at work..." only to find out during editing that the characters had worked a six-day work week.


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Exactly right!  I had to make a diagram of my characters' places at their council table because I couldn't remember who sat next to each other or across from each other and I'd have them looking in the wrong direction or talking to the back of someone's head.  And calendar's are essential if your story takes you through any length of time.  I would love to have an entire room to work in with all those little notes stuck on the wall like that room on the old "Ray Bradbury Show" (forgive me if I mispell his name).  Lots of inspiring thing in that room.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I use a technique called pre-setting (my term for it). Whenever I have a scene that requires the reader to know where things are placed and who's is standing where, I devote a chapter beforehand to those issues, creating associative terms and words for the reader to recall when I need them to recall them. In The Dragon's Pool, as an example, one of the scenes in the Museum has several actions happening, two hundred people at a reception, and all the main characters (a dozen) engaged in important chain events. So I have a quiet chapter (two chapters before) where the reader gets a walk through of the exhibit and sees where everything is placed. The chapter has content and engaging conversation and some forward motion, but it is relatively passive (and a difficult thing to write). Then in the big wham, bam, boom scene, all hell can break lose and the reader is not lost. The elements are preplaced, noted, etched and then I change into an action pack choreography. The structure of such a scene is general preset in my head and rehearsed while I'm driving (dialog, movement, this one's here that one's there, this blows up, this person is possessed, this one gets a mickey slipped to her, the relics shoots a beam here, a fight breaks out there). And then it gels in the draft. Then its a matter of fixing, revising and fine tuning. I find setting a stage for this sort of thing in the same chapter tilts my hand and the reader isn't surprised by the sequence. It's so much more effective sepeating it out on some pretext.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> My character is taking over my book. I'm writing the sequel to Painting the Roses Red and Rianna doesn't want to do anything I ask her to do. Now, I'm not this kind of writer. I don't have characters that boss me around. I'm the writer. They do what I say... until now... until Rianna... if I let her keep this up, I'm afraid I won't have a plot at the end of the book?
> 
> Trish


I've never had a character take over a book, but I've worked with my characters a long time and they feel like close friends. When I need to know more about them, I put myself in their heads and visualize walking through their homes, or offices, or cars, opening their drawers, and seeing what personal stuff is lying around. This way, I sometimes get revelations about characters that I never envisioned when first creating them.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Dave Dykema said:


> I made a calendar once to keep track of dates. It was very helpful, because before I had it I kept writing things like, "The next day at work..." only to find out during editing that the characters had worked a six-day work week.


I've done that too. Tiara was supposed to be somewhere on Sunday and I realized I'd have to make two Thursdays to meet the schedule, or I set the scene in September and then remembered that the grape vines wouldn't look the way I described them that time of year.

I'm not as organized though. I have a ton of little post-it notes scattered around my desktop. The rest is in invisible notes within the text.

Finally, the one time I worked with a rigidly structured outline, I had two things happen. I actually Finished my first book-length piece because I had the outline, but it was rushed in some places and flat in others, so I wasn't satisfied with it. It got me over the hump of insecurity that I couldn't get a full-length novel done, but I wouldn't do it again.

Trish


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## Steph H (Oct 28, 2008)

As a reader, it's a lot of fun to get these sneak peeks into the lives of writers.  I certainly never thought that the writing process would be easy, and it's interesting to see the various ways y'all come up with for keeping track of the info that can become unmanageable (though I often notice info disconnects in books, I've always been forgiving of the occasional one because I did at least understand it would have to be hard to keep track of it all).

Don't mind us lurking quietly here in the background!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Debra Purdy Kong said:


> I've never had a character take over a book, but I've worked with my characters a long time and they feel like close friends. When I need to know more about them, I put myself in their heads and visualize walking through their homes, or offices, or cars, opening their drawers, and seeing what personal stuff is lying around. This way, I sometimes get revelations about characters that I never envisioned when first creating them.


Here's a blog entry that speaks to that that you might enjoy, Debra.

http://historicromance.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/893/

L


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## Carolyn Kephart (Feb 23, 2009)

Steph H said:


> As a reader, it's a lot of fun to get these sneak peeks into the lives of writers.  I certainly never thought that the writing process would be easy, and it's interesting to see the various ways y'all come up with for keeping track of the info that can become unmanageable (though I often notice info disconnects in books, I've always been forgiving of the occasional one because I did at least understand it would have to be hard to keep track of it all).
> 
> Don't mind us lurking quietly here in the background!


I love lurkers, and I'm very glad you're one of 'em, Steph. 

Regarding characters, I don't _want_ to know all about mine, and I don't think they'd like it if I tried to. They have lives of their own, and quite a few would take a sword to me if I started prying. 

The writing process is fun for me, but strenuous. Nothing comes easily, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Enjoying this thread lots,

CK


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

My characters live a better and richer life than I do. They eat better, have more sex and generally party harder. I also don't want to know everything about them, but by your children you are taught. 

Edward C. Patterson
"Getting to know you . . .  humming"


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> I might be cheating here a bit, because I have two people reading aloud to me as I edit so that I can actually hear how it sounds in dialog. That way I can correct anything that sounds stiff or unrealistic. Have you tried this?


I've considered it, but not tried it. I'm pretty private when I'm in the middle of writing my stuff; don't like showing it off to other people until it's completely done. That, however, may have to be a way in which I need to force myself to break out of my shell.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I employ Dickens' method when it comes to dialog. I take on the persona of the character and read it that way. (I do a fine drag queen voice in The Jade Owl). Anyone hearing me will think I'm mad, but not so. My characters have a certainvoice, and I hear them first in my head (shades of Son of Sam), and then voice them. This also comes in handy when doing book readings, where I also subscribed to the Dickens method, giving a real show. When I do my big gig down in Virginia in three weeks (for No Irish Need Apply), I will need and can, voice 2 teenage boys and a widowed mother - in a very stressful culminating scene. I'm happy for that, because usually at book signings one reads from the beginning so as not provide spoilers. But this gig, all attendees will have already bought and read the book, so my job is to bring the characters to life.

Edward C. Patterson


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

edwpat said:


> I employ Dickens' method when it comes to dialog. I take on the persona of the character and read it that way. (I do a fine drag queen voice in The Jade Owl). Anyone hearing me will think I'm mad, but not so. My characters have a certainvoice, and I hear them first in my head (shades of Son of Sam), and then voice them. This also comes in handy when doing book readings, where I also subscribed to the Dickens method, giving a real show. When I do my big gig down in Virginia in three weeks (for No Irish Need Apply), I will need and can, voice 2 teenage boys and a widowed mother - in a very stressful culminating scene. I'm happy for that, because usually at book signings one reads from the beginning so as not provide spoilers. But this gig, all attendees will have already bought and read the book, so my job is to bring the characters to life.
> 
> Edward C. Patterson


Now see, I might try that when nobody's around, but God did not gift me with a very good sense of mimicry when it comes to voices, so I try to hear it in my head as best I can.


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## WoodWitchDame (Jan 3, 2009)

>>Quote from Edward C Patterson "I employ Dickens' method when it comes to dialog. I take on the persona of the character and read it that way. (I do a fine drag queen voice in The Jade Owl). Anyone hearing me will think I'm mad, but not so. My characters have a certainvoice, and I hear them first in my head (shades of Son of Sam), and then voice them. This also comes in handy when doing book readings, where I also subscribed to the Dickens method, giving a real show. When I do my big gig down in Virginia in three weeks (for No Irish Need Apply), I will need and can, voice 2 teenage boys and a widowed mother - in a very stressful culminating scene. I'm happy for that, because usually at book signings one reads from the beginning so as not provide spoilers. But this gig, all attendees will have already bought and read the book, so my job is to bring the characters to life.<<

(Sorry I'm not sure how to quote properly yet, LOL)

That's just how I write dialog Ed! I love doing all the voices myself -male, female, accents and all- I wouldn't have it any other way.  That Virginia gig sounds great! Have wonderful fun with it - how nice to be able to connect with readers like that!

~ Melanie


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Oddly enough, I sometimes hear the characters voices before they are actually created. Their voices are so intrinsic to my character-driven novels that I'd say that without their voices they would never come to life.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Meredith Sinclair (May 21, 2009)

WoodWitchDame said:


> >>Quote from Edward C Patterson "I employ Dickens' method when it comes to dialog. I take on the persona of the character and read it that way. (I do a fine drag queen voice in The Jade Owl). Anyone hearing me will think I'm mad, but not so. My characters have a certainvoice, and I hear them first in my head (shades of Son of Sam), and then voice them. This also comes in handy when doing book readings, where I also subscribed to the Dickens method, giving a real show. When I do my big gig down in Virginia in three weeks (for No Irish Need Apply), I will need and can, voice 2 teenage boys and a widowed mother - in a very stressful culminating scene. I'm happy for that, because usually at book signings one reads from the beginning so as not provide spoilers. But this gig, all attendees will have already bought and read the book, so my job is to bring the characters to life.<<
> 
> (Sorry I'm not sure how to quote properly yet, LOL)
> 
> ...


Just make sure you start typing after the last word "quote" inside the brackets,  Melainie.


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## Debra Purdy Kong (Apr 1, 2009)

Leslie said:


> Here's a blog entry that speaks to that that you might enjoy, Debra.
> 
> http://historicromance.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/893/
> 
> L


Thanks, Leslie I did enjoy it. The things you learn about your character when you take him somewhere can be really surprising. Think I'll take mine for a walk today.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm struggling with a name for the sequel to Painting the Roses Red.  I probably just need to talk it out a little or maybe I should just wait until the end reveals itself to me.  This book just isn't like the first one.  The first was so organized.  If I really don't have a good title by the time I reach 75% done, I'll post more details and get suggestions from the geniuses here, but does anyone else agonize over what to name the book?


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

If it doesn't hit me immediately, then the name of the book is the last chore I do.  It usually has some vague 'work in process' reference while I'm working on it (I need something to name the word doc   )

The title usually hits you one night when you're just on the verge of falling asleep and your mind is relaxed enough to say "duh!  Why didn't I think of that!"

No, my next book is not named, "Why didn't I think of that."


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> I'm struggling with a name for the sequel to Painting the Roses Red. I probably just need to talk it out a little or maybe I should just wait until the end reveals itself to me. This book just isn't like the first one. The first was so organized. If I really don't have a good title by the time I reach 75% done, I'll post more details and get suggestions from the geniuses here, but does anyone else agonize over what to name the book?


I haven't read your book so I don't know the story, but if it's a sequel, you might want to consider going with the same "theme" for a title: Painting the Lilies White or Painting the Orchids Purple or whatever. Just my 2 cents.

L


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I can't start the writing of a book without a title and I'm fussy about it. It might change (No Irish Need Apply was once In the eyes of the Species  and   Bobby's Trace was originally   An Outing in the Wilderness), but a title grows organically out of or into the work. I also will never begin the final revision unless I've designed a cover.

Edward C. Patterson


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

I like Bobby's Trace, Ed.  It fit the work perfectly!


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Thanks Maureen.

Ed P


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## vikingwarrior22 (May 25, 2009)

I have always wondered how... sometimes aloud... how people name their books. I very rarely have noticed books that have the same titles... it seems somehow people always group words to make up new "titles".  I have a list i keep of book titles that upon request i will gladly share. a few of my favorites titles that I've come up with are 'My Plates are Round'... 'The Stack of Words'... 'The Fictional Account of my Life'..."the Honest, Unabrigded Truth about Chickens'... and 'Pugs, Do I need to Say More?'  These are just a few for you to consider.  Maybe I should put a book out and title it "The book of Titles Part 1, Series 1". Have a good week!  vw


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I think my best title is for my poetry set - The Closet Clandestine: a queer steps out   I didn't think there would be a duplicate there.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

I have a hard time with titles. Now that I write for a website, I have to title articles all the time. I hate it!

If I don't have a title, it usually comes to me organically after I've written about a third of it.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

mamiller said:


> (I need something to name the word doc  )


I actually stalled in my writing process for an hour because I couldn't name the stupid word document... lol.



Leslie said:


> I haven't read your book so I don't know the story, but if it's a sequel, you might want to consider going with the same "theme" for a title: Painting the Lilies White or Painting the Orchids Purple or whatever. Just my 2 cents.


I hadn't thought of that. Painting the Roses Red was a nudge that the book was an Alice in Wonderland theme, but I hadn't thought to extend the theme to the next title.... hmmm... challenging since the next title may play on an entirely different fairy tale... Lilies and a dead body go together... Thanks for the thought...



edwpat said:


> I can't start the writing of a book without a title and I'm fussy about it. It might change (No Irish Need Apply was once In the yes of the Species and Bobby's Trace was originally An Outing in the Wilderness), but a title grows organically out of or into the work.


I was fussy with Painting the Roses Red and my fairy tales (which I'm editing the second one), but not this one... not Rianna... she breaks all my writing rules.


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## sigrosenblum (Dec 22, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> I'm struggling with a name for the sequel to Painting the Roses Red. I probably just need to talk it out a little or maybe I should just wait until the end reveals itself to me. This book just isn't like the first one. The first was so organized. If I really don't have a good title by the time I reach 75% done, I'll post more details and get suggestions from the geniuses here, but does anyone else agonize over what to name the book?


Just a reminder that book titles are critical. That's why--in traditional publishing--this is the province of the publisher--not the author. Presumably, authors are not as promotionally savvy.

But let's hear more details. You're quite right: The many talented people here will flood you with inspired choices!

Sig 
http://sigrosenblum.7p.com/


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

sigrosenblum said:


> Just a reminder that book titles are critical. That's why--in traditional publishing--this is the province of the publisher--not the author. Presumably, authors are not as promotionally savvy.
> 
> But let's hear more details. You're quite right: The many talented people here will flood you with inspired choices!


Okay... as you read the following description in your creative imaginations... what title hits you in the face? If I actually use one of the suggestions, I'll put it in the acknowledgments with a reference to your book or website (credit where credit is due). Besides, anything might trigger the blankness out of my mind on this.

Rianna (the main character) is employed by PSI Consulting, a small company of psychics who have contracts with Vegas casinos to take care of psychic cheaters. Off company time, she opens a portal using magic (something that most psychics don't believe in) and brings through the perfect guy. When she takes this perfect guy home, she runs into a dead body on her living room couch (the dead body is a psychic cheater that she was assigned to send to a casino that PSI Consulting doesn't have a contract to protect). The primary owner of the company, Jordan, is off on his honeymoon so Marcus (a perfect psychic ground) is in charge. When Rianna reports to Marcus about the dead guy on her couch and the perfect guy she pulled through a magical portal, Marcus thinks the perfect guy (Gideon) is behind it and running a con on Rianna because he is sure that magic is mumbo jumbo.

The mystery is Remington Steele-ish. The magic is a bit Peter Pan-ish. The romance is almost My Fair Lady-ish. And the background attitude is sort-of Abbot and Costello-ish.

Have at it,
Trish Lamoree


----------



## sigrosenblum (Dec 22, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> Okay... as you read the following description in your creative imaginations... what title hits you in the face? If I actually use one of the suggestions, I'll put it in the acknowledgments with a reference to your book or website (credit where credit is due). Besides, anything might trigger the blankness out of my mind on this.
> 
> Rianna (the main character) is employed by PSI Consulting, a small company of psychics who have contracts with Vegas casinos to take care of psychic cheaters. Off company time, she opens a portal using magic (something that most psychics don't believe in) and brings through the perfect guy. When she takes this perfect guy home, she runs into a dead body on her living room couch (the dead body is a psychic cheater that she was assigned to send to a casino that PSI Consulting doesn't have a contract to protect). The primary owner of the company, Jordan, is off on his honeymoon so Marcus (a perfect psychic ground) is in charge. When Rianna reports to Marcus about the dead guy on her couch and the perfect guy she pulled through a magical portal, Marcus thinks the perfect guy (Gideon) is behind it and running a con on Rianna because he is sure that magic is mumbo jumbo.
> 
> ...


First flash: "Mind Over Murder."

Sig

http://sigrosenblum.7p.com/


----------



## sigrosenblum (Dec 22, 2008)

vwkitten said:


> Okay... as you read the following description in your creative imaginations... what title hits you in the face? If I actually use one of the suggestions, I'll put it in the acknowledgments with a reference to your book or website (credit where credit is due). Besides, anything might trigger the blankness out of my mind on this.
> 
> Rianna (the main character) is employed by PSI Consulting, a small company of psychics who have contracts with Vegas casinos to take care of psychic cheaters. Off company time, she opens a portal using magic (something that most psychics don't believe in) and brings through the perfect guy. When she takes this perfect guy home, she runs into a dead body on her living room couch (the dead body is a psychic cheater that she was assigned to send to a casino that PSI Consulting doesn't have a contract to protect). The primary owner of the company, Jordan, is off on his honeymoon so Marcus (a perfect psychic ground) is in charge. When Rianna reports to Marcus about the dead guy on her couch and the perfect guy she pulled through a magical portal, Marcus thinks the perfect guy (Gideon) is behind it and running a con on Rianna because he is sure that magic is mumbo jumbo.
> 
> ...


Second Flash: "Betting on Death."
Third Flash: "The Corpse on the Couch."

Sig

http://sigrosenblum.7p.com/


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm thinking "Corporeal Assets"

Ed P


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

sigrosenblum said:


> Second Flash: "Betting on Death."
> Third Flash: "The Corpse on the Couch."
> 
> http://sigrosenblum.7p.com/


I'm a little intrigued by The Corpse on the Couch... but the first book of the series was titled Painting the Roses Red (a song from Alice in Wonderland)... but OMG -- I got it!!! Never Smile at a Crocodile. It embodies the entire attitude that Marcus has toward Gideon... it's perfect (at least today) and it's a song from Peter Pan which is one of the themes. And now I know why I needed the title so badly before I went much further. Thanks for spurring me to get it done.

I know it doesn't seem like it but it was the Corpse on the Couch that made me think of it.

Laters folks -- off to work with that title...
Trish


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Sofa's Choice

Ed P


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

edwpat said:


> Sofa's Choice
> 
> Ed P


ROFL!!


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

As promised -- special acknowledgments section for Never Smile at a Crocodile....

Special Acknowledgements: I can't thank Nancy Foster enough for her editing and promotional work on this series. Thank you to the inspirational authors and readers at Kindleboards.com for your help in determining the title of the book (in particular: Maureen Miller, author of Widow's Tale who can be found at www.maureenmiller.com; Edward Patterson, author of the Jade Owl Legacy series; and Sig Rosenblum at http://sigrosenblum.7p.com/). Special thanks to Margie Bell for all her help with publicizing the first book.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

WOW thank you!

Ed Patterson


----------



## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

Trish!!  We help because we love.


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Ah, the acknowledgments section is at the back of the book, but it's in there. I put you there because I love you, too.

Today's English lesson:
I,cI = Independent clause - comma - coordinating conjunction - Independent clause. I;I = Independent clause - semi-colon - Independent clause. Id = Independent clause - dependent clause. d,I = dependent clause - comma - Independent clause.

And the memory tool for conjunctions is:
F- for
A- and
N- nor
B- but
O- or
Y- yet
S- so

Because if you don't remember this


Spoiler



crap


while you're writing, your eighth grade English will rise from the grave and haunt your work (or your wonderful high school English teacher mother will spend two agonizing days marking 300 places to insert commas)......

Brain -- mush! whimper whimper....


----------



## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

I barely remember what a conjunction is usually. I think my high school English all went to the same location as the section in Science on rocks.


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Conjunction Junction -- what's your function!


----------



## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> Conjunction Junction -- what's your function!


Don't go there, Trish. Now I'll be singing all day. _ Interjection! Alleluhia!_ bah...it's too late.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Conjunctions. Well, parts is parts, but when you deal with Mandarin where there is only sytax and no grammar, I often banish all grammar from my writing and leave that little detail to my editor. It's good thing that I was brought up at Dickens' knee and Austen's


Spoiler



teat.



Ed Patterson


----------



## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> Conjunction Junction -- what's your function!


I just going to go get a giant Q-tip now, so that I'll have it at hand when I need to stab myself in the ear because that song got stuck in my head...


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

Thumper said:


> I just going to go get a giant Q-tip now, so that I'll have it at hand when I need to stab myself in the ear because that song got stuck in my head...


Ouch!  Guess it wouldn't be a popular time for me to tell you that I'm just a bill.....


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

mamiller said:


> Interjection! Alleluhia![/i] bah...it's too late.


*Hey!*...show excitement *Yow!* or emotion *Ouch*
They are generally set apart from a sentence
by an exclaimation point, or a comma, when the feeling's not as strong.



mamiller said:


> Ouch!  Guess it wouldn't be a popular time for me to tell you that I'm just a bill.....


It's not easy to become a law, is it?

Oh oh --

Lolly Lolly Lolly, get your adverbs here...



Thumper said:


> I just going to go get a giant Q-tip now, so that I'll have it at hand when I need to stab myself in the ear because that song got stuck in my head...


Which song would you like stuck in your head? As far as I'm concerned, these are better than Voices Carry...


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

I want to know what this apparently grammar-related song is that you all know, and I don't.


----------



## Meredith Sinclair (May 21, 2009)

mamiller said:


> Ouch!  Guess it wouldn't be a popular time for me to tell you that I'm just a bill.....


...on Capitol Hill!!!!!! 

Thumper... go get TWO!


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Susan in VA said:


> I want to know what this apparently grammar-related song is that you all know, and I don't.


You grew up in the wrong country.  In the 70's there was a show called "The Electric Company". . . .from the Sesame Street people and supposed to be for kids who'd grown out of that. They had a bunch of songs called "Schoolhouse Rock". . .songs covered Grammar, mathematics, etc. Google it. . . .you'll get thousands of hits. . . . .


----------



## Meredith Sinclair (May 21, 2009)

Con-junction, Junction... what's your function?


----------



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I got three favorite cars
That get most of my job done.
Conjunction Junction, what's their function?
I got "and", "but", and "or", 
They'll get you pretty far.


----------



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capital city.
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee,
But I know I'll be a law someday
At least I hope and pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Ann in Arlington said:


> You grew up in the wrong country.  In the 70's there was a show called "The Electric Company". . . .from the Sesame Street people and supposed to be for kids who'd grown out of that. They had a bunch of songs called "Schoolhouse Rock". . .songs covered Grammar, mathematics, etc. Google it. . . .you'll get thousands of hits. . . . .


But I was HERE in the 70's! (until '77, anyway... first arrived on these shores in December of '6

Somehow I think I'm going to regret Googling this one.


----------



## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

No, actually, some of the songs were pretty catchy . . . . .Google away.


----------



## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

Don't feel bad.   I was born in '74 and barely recalled the Electric Company until Ann mentioned it. I'm resisting the temptation to Google.


----------



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

I was born in 1969 and grew up on Sesame Street, the Electric Company, and Schoolhouse Rock.

My son, unfortunately, was hooked on Barney from the ages of 2 to 4, so that song STILL gets stuck in my head now and then. My son will be 20 this month.


----------



## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

I LOVED The Electric Company! Morgan Freeman and Rita Moreno. How can you go wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzFE6fE703A


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Well I grew up on I Luv Lucy (the orignal run), Howdy Doody, Rootie Kazootie and Uncle Milty. Of course, we didn't have a television until 1954 and it was an old Dumont - with a 2 inch screen and five ton wooden cabinet. I was always fascinated by the test pattern and Captain Video. I actually remember the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth, watching it on a neighbor's big clunker of a Dumont. I do remember Sesame Street, only I was out of the Army by then. But I am a Harry Truman baby.  

Ed Patterson


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

There were A LOT of children's shows on TV here, it seems.

When I was little, kid programs were limited to the Sandman Show every evening (lasted ten minutes, right before bedtime) and about an hour of kid shows on Saturday afternoons, followed by maybe another hour or so of family-friendly animal specials or the like. ('Course at the time Germany had all of _three _TV channels.)

My parents tell me that as a small child I loved original-series Batman shows dubbed into French.  This is amazing to me now because I did not understand a word of French, nor can I have understood a fraction of the content of the shows. Go figure.


----------



## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

These songs were NOT on the Electric Company. They were filler between cartoons on the ABC Network on Saturday mornings, under the banner of Schoolhouse Rock.


----------



## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Yes. I've got the Schoolhouse Rock DVD. 
My favorite was the pronoun song. 

Rufus Xavier Sarsparilla...Rafaella Gabriella Sarsparilla...Albert Andreas Armadillo...
I could say that, but I don't have to! Because I've got pronouns.


----------



## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

RedAdept said:


> I was born in 1969 and grew up on Sesame Street, the Electric Company, and Schoolhouse Rock.
> 
> My son, unfortunately, was hooked on Barney from the ages of 2 to 4, so that song STILL gets stuck in my head now and then. My son will be 20 this month.


Ohh, that song.  I know how hard it is to get out of your head. My Mother(yes, I said mother) watches PBS stuff in the daytime since she hates soap operas and talk shows and Barney is still on everyday in my house. I *hate* that big purple dinosaur so much.


----------



## J.E.Johnson (Aug 5, 2009)

Interesting . . . my characters haven't taken over . . yet.  But they do often have a mind of their own.  Have you tried taking a break from this book/series to write about something else?  I'm a fantasy writer and I have four different worlds going on right now, so if one becomes too overwhelming, I move on to a different story.  Especially if Jahrra is being a tad on the bratty side and Jaax is being more dragonish than usual  
Jenna Elizabeth Johnson


----------



## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

My characters usually tend to take over in certain little ways in whichever story I'm writing. My current one is just proving better at actually changing plots than normal.

I think at last count, including my second book to my series, I have about six other stories started in either action/adventure or romantic suspense. Though since I've set myself up for a fall release for this sequel, breaking on it isn't an option unless it's a dire reason....or it makes me mad.


----------



## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Well I grew up on I Luv Lucy (the orignal run), Howdy Doody, Rootie Kazootie and Uncle Milty. Of course, we didn't have a television until 1954 and it was an old Dumont - with a 2 inch screen and five ton wooden cabinet. I was always fascinated by the test pattern and Captain Video. I actually remember the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth, watching it on a neighbor's big clunker of a Dumont. I do remember Sesame Street, only I was out of the Army by then. But I am a Harry Truman baby.
> 
> Ed Patterson


Rootie Kazootie sounds like a plumber to me.  I remember 'the Lucy Show'?? Where she was in a bank with Mr. Wiffle--or is he the Charmin guy? But then again, I can't remember my name sometimes unless I consult my driver's license.

For you Conjuction-junction-ers.....last night on Jeapordy, I was able to answer the question "What is Preamble", because to this day I can quote our Constitution's Preamble by singing it.  "We the People...in order to form a more perfect union"


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Dave Dykema said:


> These songs were NOT on the Electric Company. They were filler between cartoons on the ABC Network on Saturday mornings, under the banner of Schoolhouse Rock.


That's what I thought, too, but I was afraid to say anything, but then I don't carry a huge knife in my avatar either. LOL


----------



## Dave Dykema (May 18, 2009)

No, just a firebreathing dragon...what's worse


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Personally I'd rather encounter the dragon.  Maybe if I offered it some cat treats it would let me pet it.  (Or maybe just let me live.)


----------



## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

That's why those Medievil(I know it's spelled wrong but my desk dictionary took off) Fairs are useful. You stock up on dragon treats for when the occassion pops up and you need some in a hurry.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Dave Dykema said:


> No, just a firebreathing dragon...what's worse


Oh, geesh, you noticed that? That's just Annoni. She's really quite lovely once you get to know her... always bring plenty of Orbit though.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Personally I'd rather encounter the dragon. Maybe if I offered it some cat treats it would let me pet it. (Or maybe just let me live.)


Just bring the cat, Miss Susan. Dragons generally prefer the taste of cats over the taste of cat treats. I think Persians are best with those Egyptian things bringing up the rear.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

sierra09 said:


> That's why those Medievil(I know it's spelled wrong but my desk dictionary took off) Fairs are useful. You stock up on dragon treats for when the occassion pops up and you need some in a hurry.


Now you're talking, Miss Sierra. Annoni can put away the turkey legs in short order and she also likes fried alligator (the whole thing, hide and all ). Ha! Ha!


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

sierra09 said:


> That's why those Medievil(I know it's spelled wrong but my desk dictionary took off) Fairs are useful. You stock up on dragon treats for when the occassion pops up and you need some in a hurry.


I _knew _there was a reason I should go to RenFair this year!!


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> Just bring the cat, Miss Susan. Dragons generally prefer the taste of cats over the taste of cat treats. I think Persians are best with those Egyptian things bringing up the rear.


EEEEEEEEEEEK!! (Don't listen, Pixie!)


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> Now you're talking, Miss Sierra. Annoni can put away the turkey legs in short order and she also likes fried alligator (the whole thing, hide and all ). Ha! Ha!


adding to my grocery list... Pounce, 1 case, alligator flavor, extra crunchy


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> adding to my grocery list... Pounce, 1 case, alligator flavor, extra crunchy


I'm sure she'll be pleased with them as long as they are kitty shaped.


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> I'm sure she'll be pleased with them as long as they are kitty shaped.


Will these do?


----------



## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

Of course all dragon treats are kitty shaped....and alligator flavored.   Though there have been some that were also salmon flavored.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Will these do?


Annoni wants to know how big those are.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

sierra09 said:


> Of course all dragon treats are kitty shaped....and alligator flavored.  Though there have been some that were also salmon flavored.


Now, if it's salmon flavored then we'll have to go for the Scottish dragon, Inanna, who would prefer salmon over alligator. I had Annoni convinced that the treats were actually crocodile flavored since she hails from the east.  I figured that alligator/crocodile, who would know the difference?


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> Annoni wants to know how big those are.


LOL! About two inches long.... they're not cat treats, they're people cookies, from Trader Joe's. They come in cinnamon and in chocolate, and they're quite tasty. Alas, poor Annoni might have to munch an entire one-pound bucket to make it worth her while.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> LOL! About two inches long.... they're not cat treats, they're people cookies, from Trader Joe's. They come in cinnamon and in chocolate, and they're quite tasty. Alas, poor Annoni might have to munch an entire one-pound bucket to make it worth her while.


That could be acceptable. Make them chocolate. She Loooooooooooves chocolate. It makes her flames all gooey and fragrant.  So these people cookies.... are they made of real people?


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> She Loooooooooooves chocolate. It makes her flames all gooey and fragrant.


Think she'd mind if I toasted a marshmallow on her breath?


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Think she'd mind if I toasted a marshmallow on her breath?


S'mores. She likes s'mores. But her fire would require a very, very long stick.


----------



## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> S'mores. She likes s'mores. But her fire would require a very, very long stick.


Ski pole maybe?


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

RedAdept said:


> I was born in 1969 and grew up on Sesame Street, the Electric Company, and Schoolhouse Rock.
> 
> My son, unfortunately, was hooked on Barney from the ages of 2 to 4, so that song STILL gets stuck in my head now and then. My son will be 20 this month.


I was also born in 1969 - what a great year to be born!



rjkeller said:


> Yes. I've got the Schoolhouse Rock DVD.


I have that DVD too!



J.E.Johnson said:


> Interesting . . . my characters haven't taken over . . yet. But they do often have a mind of their own. Have you tried taking a break from this book/series to write about something else? I'm a fantasy writer and I have four different worlds going on right now, so if one becomes too overwhelming, I move on to a different story. Especially if Jahrra is being a tad on the bratty side and Jaax is being more dragonish than usual
> Jenna Elizabeth Johnson


Oh I wish I could focus on more than one world at once, but I can't. Very cool that you can.



mamiller said:


> I was able to answer the question "What is Preamble", because to this day I can quote our Constitution's Preamble by singing it.  "We the People...in order to form a more perfect union"


Me too!



Susan in VA said:


> I _knew _there was a reason I should go to RenFair this year!!


Wow I left this thread this morning and now you guys are all fired up about dragons and renn faires and it just hit me how it all plays together... I was just talking about renn faires in another thread, and fires and stuff... Life is just full of stuff like this. Today is a good day.


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Susan in VA said:


> Ski pole maybe?


Lodge pole... perhaps.


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Krakow Poles. Or maybe, North Poles.  

Ed P


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Krakow Poles. Or maybe, North Poles.
> 
> Ed P


Why does it have to always be North Poles? What about South Poles?


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Because South Poles tend to be short and stumpy.

Ed Patterson


----------



## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Because South Poles tend to be short and stumpy.
> 
> Ed Patterson


bhahahaha


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Because South Poles tend to be short and stumpy.
> 
> Ed Patterson


And you can't play tetherball on short stumpy poles...


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> Because South Poles tend to be short and stumpy.
> 
> Ed Patterson


What's so funny about short and stumpy?  And how do you know it is, Mr. Edward? Have you been there recently? I heard the ice cap is melting and more and more of that pole is sticking out now. Don't you know about global warming and rising coastlines and mad cow disease?


----------



## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I am an expert on mad cows and most of my world view is fromunder. As for global warming, all I can say is Ice


Spoiler



Crap


.

ECP


----------



## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

I've still got Lolly Lolly Lolly going through my head.... it's been warring with the tune of Never Smile at a Crocodile (a tune which has been strutting around in my head for two months now)....


----------



## RJ Keller (Mar 9, 2009)

Now I do, too. It's very, very contagious.


----------



## OliviaD (Jul 21, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> I've still got Lolly Lolly Lolly going through my head.... it's been warring with the tune of Never Smile at a Crocodile (a tune which has been strutting around in my head for two months now)....


I get this stuck in my head sometimes without even hearing it and I haven't seen it on television since my kids were little and that is too far back to mention...


----------



## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

Nooooooooooooooooo, not that again!!!  No, no, lol... loll... lolly... lolly, lolly, lolly, get your adverbs here!


----------



## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

So what was more entertaining?  Lolly Lolly and the whole Schoolhouse rock crew...or the actual show that was on?  What would it have been, Scooby Dooby Dooooooooooo?  We still sing both.  
"Scooby Dooby do, where are you...you've got some work to do now."  (everyone!)


----------



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

The pic I have on here is actually of my mom's dog, Cody.

My dog is black & white, but mostly black, so it's very hard to get a good pic of him.

However, his name is Scooby and if you want him to wag his tail, just start singing the theme song for "Scooby Doo". He even used to perk up and stare at the TV when my son would watch it in his younger days.

See, we got him from the shelter when he was 2 year old. He had been found on the side of the highway and was almost starving. The rules said he had to be fixed before we could take him home. so, we picked him up after his operation when he was still a little groggy.

When we got him home, my 10 year old son sat on the floor with his 80 pound dog's head in his lap, petting him and singing the Scooby Doo song over and over. The dog is now 12 and still loves that song.


----------



## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

That's a wonderful tale, Lynn. It has a happy ending.  You did a very good thing by him.  I bet he got Scooby snacks after that.  

Of course, I was supposed to get you all going and singing that song, and it backfired on me and I've been singing it ever since I posted.  Hah on me!


----------



## Lynn McNamee (Jan 8, 2009)

mamiller said:


> That's a wonderful tale, Lynn. It has a happy ending. You did a very good thing by him. I bet he got Scooby snacks after that.


Yep, if you ask him if he wants a 'scooby snack', he gets WAY excited, jumping around, etc.

My son picked the name Scooby because he is scared of everything, just like the cartoon dog. He loves people, but he is scared of floor vent, hallways, linoleum floors, running water, etc. We can't use one of the self-filling water bowls. The gurgling noise they make now and then terrifies him to the point where he refuses to drink. 

At the shelter when my son was trying to pick out a dog, he looked up at me at one point and said, "Mom, they kill the dogs that no one wants, don't they?" Now he was 10, and I am not one to lie, so I admitted that it was true, but that they did hold the dogs for a long time before doing that. He looked around and chose his new dog, the skinniest, most fearful, dirtiest, saddest looking dog in the place with no name and nothing on his card about him except "found on side of highway."

My son could not have found a better dog. We cleaned him up, fed him, and he is a beautiful, well behaved, loving border collie/lab mix. 

Sorry, guess you can tell I am a proud Mom of both son (who turns 20 this month) and dog. 

In the book I am working on, a kid gets a dog, too. I love Koontz's books because they almost always feature a cool dog.


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

Your pride is justified


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

RedAdept said:


> In the book I am working on, a kid gets a dog, too. I love Koontz's books because they almost always feature a cool dog.


Even his ghost dogs are neat.


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## Meredith Sinclair (May 21, 2009)

mamiller said:


> So what was more entertaining? Lolly Lolly and the whole Schoolhouse rock crew...or the actual show that was on? What would it have been, Scooby Dooby Dooooooooooo? We still sing both.
> "Scooby Dooby do, where are you...you've got some work to do now." (everyone!)


 "...and we woulda got away with it if it weren't for those meddlin' KIDS!"


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

Meredith Sinclair said:


> "...and we woulda got away with it if it weren't for those meddlin' KIDS!"


Zoinks, Merry!


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

If you guys keep this up, I might get inspired to do a scooby doo type mystery next time... LOL... oh wait, how close is a Remington Steele mystery to a scooby doo one?  Oh no... did I write a scooby doo mystery?  ROFL...


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

You jest, Trish.  One of my first characters was named Lee after Lee Stetson from Scarecrow and Mrs. King.  That book sits there on the shelf with others...


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

You know -- I just have fits coming up with last names for my characters.  It's just too silly... My husband laughs at me when I have to go searching through baby name books to come up with another first name, but the last names are harder for me.... Holt is funny, now that I know... Lee is funnier.


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## JH88 (Jul 8, 2009)

I like coming up with first and last names. I like to try and set up some sort of mood or imagery with the name that goes with their personality. Sometimes I need to search online for the one I like. I also have days where I become a little silly with names, and everything else for that matter, but that's me.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I've named characters on the fly and on the road - like Rowden Gray (the day Spaulding Gray committed suicide), and Sydney Firestone (after passing a gas station - not after passin gas - the old pass/past thing), and Martin Powers (after Martin Towers in Bethlehem PA). Of course, many of my reader would like me to come with better Chinese names, but Itry, I really try.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Brenda Carroll (May 21, 2009)

One of my favorite things is coming up with names for my characters.  Everyone of them was inspired, researched or taken from something significant.  I only wish that I had thought to keep a journal of each name and where, when and how I came up with the name.  I especially like making up names for my faery creatures and using names from obscure mythological origins.  I've looked up a lot of names just to see if the name meanings fit the person and I've been surprised again and again to learn that they usually do.  A recent study (from somewhere) was completed that showed certain names used for babies might actually tend to land the babes in prison at a later date.  Odd, but who knows?  Like the old song "A Boy Named Sue".


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## sierra09 (Jun 20, 2009)

vwkitten said:


> You know -- I just have fits coming up with last names for my characters. It's just too silly... My husband laughs at me when I have to go searching through baby name books to come up with another first name, but the last names are harder for me.... Holt is funny, now that I know... Lee is funnier.


I'm thrilled to know I'm not the only one who has used baby name books in this way. My sister is still suspcious about all the baby name books and character naming books on my reference shelf.

For main characters the names normally pop up. I sometimes have a harder time with middle names or names for supporting characters.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Brendan Carroll said:


> One of my favorite things is coming up with names for my characters. Everyone of them was inspired, researched or taken from something significant. I only wish that I had thought to keep a journal of each name and where, when and how I came up with the name. I especially like making up names for my faery creatures and using names from obscure mythological origins. I've looked up a lot of names just to see if the name meanings fit the person and I've been surprised again and again to learn that they usually do. A recent study (from somewhere) was completed that showed certain names used for babies might actually tend to land the babes in prison at a later date. Odd, but who knows? Like the old song "A Boy Named Sue".


Wow -- a journal of how you came up with names... that is such a great idea!

I started going back through my books looking for every name I had used. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't come up with a name that rhymed with another one or would confuse the reader when they read it. I keep getting about half-way through that list and stalling. It's up in post-it notes around my computer.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

I just named 2 characters in my in progress work, _*Southern Swallow - Book II - Th Nan Tu*_. And to the great joy of my editor, they weren't Chinese names - _Sun Bearer _ and _Water Dragon_. And they are both horses - quite remarkable horses I might add.

Edward C. Patterson


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Yeah, I'm back into my fables this week so names are going to be more poetic than baby book. Whew.

Oh and I just found the youtube button and couldn't resist....


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

This is sung to Stephen King's lyric: "An adverb is a pernicious weed."   A lyric I sing all the time.

Edward C. Patterson


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

Today's Grammar lesson for our wonderful authors...


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## mamiller (Apr 28, 2009)

I think you've started something, Miss Trish!  With our daily lesson we will have no excuse for grammatical errors...or we'll be singing so much we won't notice.


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## vwkitten (Apr 10, 2009)

These are better than some of the lessons -- LOL.  At least these are catchy.  If I have to try to memorize the I,cI or was it Ic,I.... ackers... my mother's gonna kill me for forgetting that one... LOL


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