# Discussion Thread--Treasure of La Malinche I&II



## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I hope you will forgive me for my lack of experience at doing this.
But.....
My strong enjoyment of this book(s) causes me to want to share my opinions and ask Jeffry Hepple to share some of his thoughts with all.
This is not a Book Klub it is a discussion thread, so welcome and enjoy. I set no rules (other than the normal ones of KB and human decency).
Also SPOILER notice. We will be talking about things that can enhance your enjoyment of the works but also can expose details if you have not yet read them. So I suggest that you read them and then come back and join in.
I will start out by saying that I enjoyed these two books very much and I have already posted mini review and told Jeff in a PM. 
Observations: the books have many typos. It sometimes seemed that there was one on each page. But the book was so engrossing that I barely noticed.
I did some quick Wikipedia research on the subject and found that the historical perspective is correct and it seems to me that the embellishments follow acceptable paths. The double time-line stories is a great technique. More later. Please join in.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Thank you for starting the thread, Geoff.

I think you're being too kind about the typos, however. I am a notoriously fumbled fingered typist and for some reason cannot see my own mistakes. Our own GertieKindle has been slaving over the original manuscript for a very long time and expects to send me her last pages of edits on Sunday. I'm hoping to have new editions published with all Gertie's corrections by the following week.

Malintzin Tenepal, the hereditary Princess of Quetzalcoatl, who became known as La Malinche during the Conquest, vanished from history after giving birth to Cortes's son. Most of what I've written about her after that time is fiction or based upon unsubstantiated rumor. What really happened to Montezuma's treasure I leave to the reader.

Many of the events of violence along the Mexican border have been lifted directly from current news stories. The State Department's warning in the book was quoted verbatim from the official web site.

I will of course be happy to answer any specific questions about the work.

I sincerely appreciate all of the kind words and the criticism from KindleBoards members. You folks have helped me imeasurably and I'll always be grateful.

Jeff


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

Hi Geoff and Jeff, and everyone else who will join in here!

I am happy to participate in this discussion, I really love TTOLM vol I, I haven't even read vol II yet (hangs head down in shame).

I have to leave for the eye doctor now for a regular exam, so won't be able to say much now except that I am thrilled to be here to enjoy further in depth discussions; Here is a little to start with, might as well start at the beginning...

I really like how the story began with the press report and the arguments, I didn't know it was a true account at first. The book was full of surprises as to the reality of the history for me. I thought it was all fiction but quite a bit of actual history enfolds all areas of this story. It is like a history lesson along with a good book. Should school have been this way, I might have paid attention.

Okay, now I have got to leave so I am not late.

I will be back later so have fun everyone,

-Sailor


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I thought the interspersed Talk Radio sessions added dimension to the storyline.
I also thought the dual story reveal of the old manuscripts and the current events was extremely entertaining.  Did anyone find it irritating?  Or did everyone else also enjoy this?
Jeff, I felt that the central character (the lynchpin, if you will) was Link.  Was this true, or did I just read it that way?  Also wondering if you identified with him. I ask this because Robert Heinlein always wrote himself into his books.  He was often not the lead character but the "old man".  In Stranger in a Strange Land he was not Valentine Michael Smith but was Jubal Harshaw. There are other illustrations for Heinlein.  Is this true for you?
Got other questions but will slip them in now and then.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> I thought the interspersed Talk Radio sessions added dimension to the storyline.


As I was proofing the manuscript, I told Jeff that I thought this was a wonderful way of bringing the outside world into the events and different perspectives to what was going on.



> I also thought the dual story reveal of the old manuscripts and the current events was extremely entertaining. Did anyone find it irritating? Or did everyone else also enjoy this?


I definitely enjoyed this aspect. It was more than just the old and the new. Several stories were going on at the same time ... cliffhanger after cliffhanger. You could see how Maggie's rash actions were affecting so many other people and she was totally unaware of what was going on. I sort of call Vol. 2 "Maggie grows up." 



> Jeff, I felt that the central character (the lynchpin, if you will) was Link. Was this true, or did I just read it that way? Also wondering if you identified with him. I ask this because Robert Heinlein always wrote himself into his books. He was often not the lead character but the "old man". In Stranger in a Strange Land he was not Valentine Michael Smith but was Jubal Harshaw. There are other illustrations for Heinlein. Is this true for you?
> Got other questions but will slip them in now and then.


I agree that Link did become the central character. He became the common denominator between the characters and the story. I had to laugh at his troubles with the women in his life. l laughed out loud when he said that with so many women telling him to "forget it," he was going to get Alzheimer's. Too funny.

Jeff, placing Dona Marina with the Coronado expedition was brilliant.

One of the things I really liked about these books, is that you get the sense that you can trust Jeff to be historically accurate. While there is no proof that Dona Marina was with Coronado, it is definitely plausible.

I'll be reading _Gone for a Soldier_, next. Jeff, I'm not too far from Bergen County right now. And I've always been a fan of the Bergen County Cadets (originally the Garfield Cadets and now just The Cadets).


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> Jeff, I felt that the central character (the lynchpin, if you will) was Link. Was this true, or did I just read it that way?


The way you read it is the only real truth, Geoff. When I started writing I intended to make Maggie de Vega the central character but Link got bigger as the story developed.



geoffthomas said:


> Also wondering if you identified with him (Link). I ask this because Robert Heinlein always wrote himself into his books. He was often not the lead character but the "old man". In Stranger in a Strange Land he was not Valentine Michael Smith but was Jubal Harshaw. There are other illustrations for Heinlein. Is this true for you?


You won't find me anywhere in the book but you'll find Link in the next. 



Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> I'll be reading _Gone for a Soldier_, next. Jeff, I'm not too far from Bergen County right now.


Gertie, wave at the bones of my ancestors as you go by Bergen County and thank you for all your editing.



sailor said:


> I am happy to participate in this discussion, I really love TTOLM


Sailor, great video. Rather than cluttering up your thread let me thank you here.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Would anyone else like to see Jeff write something featuring Tory and Lance?  I wasn't too crazy about Tory at first.  I couldn't get a handle on who she was.  She got better as she developed a relationship with Maggie and Link.  When Lance came along, Tory became a person.  He really compliments her, and I love the way he handles her.  

Jeff, you teased us poor readers with Lance's background, now, I need to know more.  Perhaps a series of short story adventures (200 pages?), compiled into an omnibus, where info about Lance is leaked to us gradually?


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Having been leisurely swimming in Jeff's *Gone for a Soldier*, I look forward to LaMalinche, which is my considerable TBR pile - but although life isn;t short, I get to it before I reach the clearing at the end of the path.

Edward C. Patterson
author of stuff


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

Volume 2 is even more exciting and a not putter downer!  It took me some time to decide to "slog" (Jeff's words   ) through the Treasure (I have a definite problem typing with that La M word) and even though I have not finished Vol 2. it is just a matter of time, get me off of KB and I'll have time to read


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

More questios and comments:

I thought that violence and sex were kept to a perfectly acceptable level.
Especially in the world of Cortes, there was a lot of Aztec bloodletting that was a part of life.
But we did not dwell on it for sensationalism.  I appreciated that.

The mainline characters were people of means (outright wealth in some cases).
Margaret and her family were aristocracy and wealthy.
Link was actually VERY well-off. (at one time it was said that maybe he had more money than the Contessa).
Tory was brought up with money too.  Jim managed to make a lot with renting out his mercs.
And the ranchers from Chihuahua, Tom and Bill Hurst had a lot of money too.
Heck even the albino German asssassins had a castle.
And of course in the backstory, the spaniards had government money and the Aztecs we met were mostly of the  aristocracy.
So.....not too many common folk here.  These people could rent a hummer when they wanted to or buy a speed boat or guns (even illegal ones).  Did you purposely choose to write about people without monetary challenges?  It is not that I object.  I like to read the story the way the author wrote it.  I was just wondering.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Volume 2 is even more exciting and a not putter downer! It took me some time to decide to "slog" (Jeff's words  ) through the Treasure (I have a definite problem typing with that La M word) and even though I have not finished Vol 2. it is just a matter of time, get me off of KB and I'll have time to read


Yes, I definitely agree with that. Still a lot of action, maybe even more, and the characters grew and developed.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> The mainline characters were people of means (outright wealth in some cases).
> Margaret and her family were aristocracy and wealthy.
> Link was actually VERY well-off. (at one time it was said that maybe he had more money than the Contessa).
> Tory was brought up with money too. Jim managed to make a lot with renting out his mercs.
> ...


One of the unfortunate realities of life is that, when confronted with trouble, those with money have more alternatives. Without Link and his money, Maggie would have been unable to undertake her treaure hunt and the story would have ended there.

As far as the other characters are concerned, La Malinche was in fact a princess in Montezuma's Court and the Emperor Montezuma was fabulously rich. Cortes and his men said that they came to the New World to spread the word of God and to get rich.

Jim Dennison, Link's Army buddy, retired after 20 years and used his military training to build a lucrative, if somewhat shadowy, private business. Although it isn't really clear in this book, his main source of income was hostage rescue. The number of hostages taken in Columbia by FARC alone is staggering. There's a closet industry in hostage rescue and negotiations that most of us don't know exists. We'll learn more about this in _Lonely Is The Soldier_. Anyone interested in the subject of FARC in Columbia might like this book:



$9.99​
Some of the other characters, such as FBI Special Agent Padilla and his cousin Elena were just working people but your observation is correct, most of the characters are indeed wealthy.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Would anyone else like to see Jeff write something featuring Tory and Lance? I wasn't too crazy about Tory at first. I couldn't get a handle on who she was. She got better as she developed a relationship with Maggie and Link. When Lance came along, Tory became a person. He really compliments her, and I love the way he handles her.
> 
> Jeff, you teased us poor readers with Lance's background, now, I need to know more. Perhaps a series of short story adventures (200 pages?), compiled into an omnibus, where info about Lance is leaked to us gradually?


Gertie,
I would love to see Jeff write more about Tory and Lance's future/adventures.
I would also like to see a story about Lance's background.
Also I think that there must be several books possible about Link.
And I will read them all.
I am a hooked fan.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> I also thought the dual story reveal of the old manuscripts and the current events was extremely entertaining. Did anyone find it irritating? Or did everyone else also enjoy this?


I think the duel story added so much more dimension that you couldn't be bored with the story. I really loved this fact about the book. Most authors could never have pulled this off, but Jeff made it flow smoothly, AND, you could remember where it was you left off because he brought you right back to the story time-line of where you needed to be. I was amazed with this part. I also loved reading about Malitzin Tenepal's time frame and the history that went on back then.

Just to share with you all, when I read books, I really have a problem with comprehension. This is my first book discussion and it is hard for me to see the depth of what all of you have put into this; you are all skilled literary readers, I am a simple reader. It is good to know even though we have this difference, Jeff's story still comes across as an excellent read.

I will read more posts and answer more later, you are all so far ahead of me, I will catch up. So much in-depth analysis here, this is a great discussion. I am seeing things that I have missed in the story and will need to go back and reread it again. 

-sailor


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

sailor said:


> I am seeing things that I have missed in the story and will need to go back and reread it again.
> 
> -sailor


Any book that I really enjoy I wind up re-reading. There are a couple of C.J. Cherryh's books that I have read more than 5 times. And I will be re-reading this one. I have already gone back to re-read sections so that I can get my thoughts organized.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> We'll learn more about this in _Lonely Is The Soldier_.


Is this what you are working on now?



> Some of the other characters, such as FBI Special Agent Padilla and his cousin Elena were just working people but your observation is correct, most of the characters are indeed wealthy.


You really had me going with Padilla. I thought for sure he was going be killed at some point. First the jail, then the hospital where Elena was killed. That really surprised me. She knew, though, didn't she. She wasn't taking a risk going to the clinic. She wanted it to happen that way.

One of the things I found interesting about the book is the way you handled the deaths of the evil-doers. They were so arrogant, so wrapped up in their own power, it never entered their minds that they might be vulnerable. Ramirez left himself open to La Gata and one swipe of her stilleto. La Gata, herself, believes in her nine lives and never figures that a simple peasant woman would step out from behind a tree and decapitate her. Duran in his arrogance, places himself directly into the clutches of Mueller, who casually pulls out a gun and shoots him between the eyes in the middle of a conversation. It never occurs to any of these people that someone might actually do unto them.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I am always a little curious about an author's goals, if there are any.
I recall reading that Raymond Feist said that he was just trying to "write a good yarn" (I hope I got that right).
And others put forth their politica agendas: Gulliver's Travels comes to mind as well as Robert Heinlein writing Starship Trooper (good book, not such a good movie) where he detailed his Rome/Sparta concept of citizenship.
Did you have any desires to suggest how to fix things, or just right a page-turner or anything?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Geoff,

Obviously my first goal was to write a book that readers would enjoy but I had three distinct sub-goals in mind while writing _The Treasure of La Malinche_ that almost overrode the first:

1. I wanted my Grandson, Joshua Martinez, to be proud of his American heritage, both European and Native.
2. I wanted the America public to be more aware of the potential threat of the Mexican Government melting down and spinning into anarchy.
3. I wanted to tell the little known story of La Malinche and of the Spanish Conquest.

To accomplish those goals I decided to interweave two distinct and separate story lines that had two contrasting writing styles. The Dona Marina memoirs has a single voice throughout, almost no dialog and is written using very long run-on sentences and the formal style of the 16th century. The modern adventure story has no character point of view, is nearly 100% dialog, and uses a very loose almost colloquial style.

One unforeseen consequence of the above decisions was a book that is really too big for any bookstore and for many readers. Thanks to the Amazon Kindle however, most readers don't know that they tackled a half million word book until they're finished.

Gertie,

Yes, the prequel to _The Treasure of La Malinche_ is called _Lonely Is The Soldier_. It begins with Lieutenant R.A. Lincoln being selected and trained as a member of 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment -Delta and follows his career to the failed hostage release in Iran, the successful hostage release in Panama, through the drug wars in Columbia and the turmoil in the Persian Gulf.

Thank you all very much,

Jeff


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> To accomplish those goals I decided to interweave two distinct and separate story lines that had two contrasting writing styles. The Dona Marina memoirs has a single voice throughout, almost no dialog and is written using very long run-on sentences and the formal style of the 16th century. The modern adventure story has no character point of view, is nearly 100% dialog, and uses a very loose almost colloquial style.


That's one of the things that make the books so interesting. The reader can fall into more than one mode. I would add the talk radio voice as a third.



> One unforeseen consequence of the above decisions was a book that is really too big for any bookstore and for many readers. Thanks to the Amazon Kindle however, most readers don't know that they tackled a half million word book until they're finished.


I can handle knowing that the books are about 1200 pages. I read those kinds of blockbusters all the time. But 500,000 words sounds a bit overwhelming.



> Gertie,
> 
> Yes, the prequel to _The Treasure of La Malinche_ is called _Lonely Is The Soldier_. It begins with Lieutenant R.A. Lincoln being selected and trained as a Special Forces - Delta Operator and follows his career to the failed hostage release in Iran, the successful hostage release in Panama, through the drug wars in Columbia and the turmoil in the Persian Gulf.


We shall eagerly await the prequel, but please don't tell us how many words.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Here's the proposed cover art, Gertie.








Opinions would be appreciated.

Since I'm posting pictures, here's another of Chaco Canyon.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

I really love this cover, Jeff. It makes a bold impact with the colors and font you used. I also like the tower in the background (that I thought was texture at first) and the smaller pictures all around add to the statement of this cover.

If it were on a bookshelf, it would definitely catch my eye.

Good Job,

-sailor


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

First, thanks for that picture of Chaco Canyon.  It makes Linc and Maggie being stranded there all the more intense.

I like the new book cover.  No question with the color it's military.  I also like the photos fading into the background with the copter at the top.  The five photos at the bottom should be either more balanced or scattered randomly.  I favor scattering.  

I also love the yellow font you used and the shadowing.  So you have two indicators of undercover/shadow work.  The font and the photos.  Very nice tie-in.

The patch is a bit jarring.  It needs to be there, but maybe it's not large enough?  It looks unreal next to the subtlety of the rest of the cover.  I know the font is a very bright yellow, but the shadowing tones it down some, and the color works very well.  

Here's a thought.  Move your name to the bottom of the cover.  I think that will balance it and the patch can stay as it is.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> ...I favor scattering.


I see what you mean, Gertie.

I too think a wider scattering of the bottom pictures might balance the cover better. My eyes are drawn to the title and author mainly, the rest is all faded into the background to me. I agree that the chopper should stay right where it is.

-sailor


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Jeff said:


> my first goal was to write a book that readers would enjoy
> *Boy, you really accomplishe this one.*
> 
> 1. I wanted my Grandson, Joshua Martinez, to be proud of his American heritage, both European and Native.
> ...


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> were you in any of these actions yourself?


No, Geoff. Writing from personal experience is too gut wrenching.

Here's the revised cover of the La Malinche prequel. All comments are appreciated.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Oh. I like this one better than the earlier one.
And I will start some content remarks on the Treasure books soon.
Sorry that I  haven't been more active.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

better


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

That's a pretty big change.  I really like this one.  Not one comment to make.  

Now, get back to writing.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Here's the revised cover of the La Malinche prequel. All comments are appreciated.


Very nice and well balanced. Good job, Jeff.

-sailor


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

So now I start with the beginning. 
Please everyone just jump right in and either also ask questions, provide your own answers, or just comment as you see fit.
Book 1 - Forward.
Is this all fact or is there some fiction here?  I acknowledge having very little knowledge of the facts associated with these events.  It certainly provides a dramatic entry.  I seem to recall a statement that you have to grab your readers in the first sentence to get through the first paragraph which keeps them through the first page.....etc.  I, for one, believe that all this was accomplished.  I was intrigued to see where this was going.
Seeing that we have Miguel Lopez Guiro introduced (I assume that he is an entirely ficticious character) then certainly some of this is fiction?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> So now I start with the beginning.
> Please everyone just jump right in and either also ask questions, provide your own answers, or just comment as you see fit.
> Book 1 - Forward.
> Is this all fact or is there some fiction here? I acknowledge having very little knowledge of the facts associated with these events. It certainly provides a dramatic entry. I seem to recall a statement that you have to grab your readers in the first sentence to get through the first paragraph which keeps them through the first page.....etc. I, for one, believe that all this was accomplished. I was intrigued to see where this was going.
> Seeing that we have Miguel Lopez Guiro introduced (I assume that he is an entirely ficticious character) then certainly some of this is fiction?


Jeff says that opening newspaper article is an actual article. I think he said he got it straight from AP.

Certainly, the border wars with the drug cartels are true, and he also said that the Sherif of Palomas actually did run over the border into Texas to avoid being murdered, I think by his own police.

I'm guessing Guiro is fictitious. I'm also guessing that the facts about Mexico's constitution are real.

Later, Jeff talks about Mexico's oil industry being on the verge of bankruptcy because of excessive taxes and subsidizing of gasoline for Mexican citizens. So, Mexico practically blackmailing us into buying their oil didn't work. *(Jeff, am I remembering that correctly?)*

Going back to Guiro, I found him to be a very interesting character. At first, I thought of him as all evil and a political opportunist. Later, we see his deep love for his country and the lengths to which he is willing to go to save it. Those lengths include marrying Veronica, who he later inexplicably comes to love. No choosing who we love, is there.

I loved him as the head of Guiro's Guerillas. At he end he chooses to be the patriarch of an extended family that he has only the most tenuous of links to. Redemption, perhaps?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> So now I start with the beginning.
> Please everyone just jump right in and either also ask questions, provide your own answers, or just comment as you see fit.
> Book 1 - Forward.
> Is this all fact or is there some fiction here? I acknowledge having very little knowledge of the facts associated with these events. It certainly provides a dramatic entry. I seem to recall a statement that you have to grab your readers in the first sentence to get through the first paragraph which keeps them through the first page.....etc. I, for one, believe that all this was accomplished. I was intrigued to see where this was going.
> Seeing that we have Miguel Lopez Guiro introduced (I assume that he is an entirely ficticious character) then certainly some of this is fiction?


With the exception of Guiro and his comments that entire foreword was paraphrased from an AP report. I can't find the November 29th report now but this was written on December 1st and it's close to the one I read:

[quote author=Associated Press]
Brawl Breaks Out in Mexico Congress
By IOAN GRILLO, Associated Press Writer
Friday, December 1, 2006

Leftist lawmakers threw punches and chairs at their conservative colleagues and some tried to block the doors of the congressional chamber Friday just an hour before incoming President Felipe Calderon was to take the oath of office there.

Ruling party lawmakers, chanting "Mexico wants peace," seized the speaker's platform where Calderon was supposed to appear, while leftist opponents blocked most of the chamber's doors.

The brawl was shown on live television across Mexico.

Carlos Navarette, Senate leader for leftist Democratic Revolution, or PRD, said his party would do everything it could to keep Calderon out.

"We'll see if he can get in," Navarette said, adding: "If he does take office, it will be at his own risk."

Mexican law prevents security officials from searching lawmakers, and no police were allowed in the congressional chamber.

Anticipating Friday's standoff, the conservative Calderon took control of the presidential residence in an unusual midnight ceremony with outgoing President Vicente Fox, swearing in part of his Cabinet. In that private ceremony, broadcast live from Los Pinos, Fox handed the presidential sash to a military cadet as his term ended at midnight.

That left experts on Mexico's constitution puzzled over whether Mexico had a president or not Friday morning. Presidents must be sworn in "before congress" but the document does not elaborate on the requirement.

In the midnight broadcast, Calderon called on Mexicans to leave behind the divisions that have dogged him and the country since the disputed July 2 elections.

"I am not unaware of the complexity of the political times we are living through, nor of our differences," he said. "But I am convinced that today we should put an end to our disagreements and from there, start a new stage whose only aim would be to place the interests of the nation above our differences."

The leftist Democratic Revolution Party - whose candidate, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, narrowly lost the presidency to Calderon - massed thousands of supporters nearby in the capital's main Zocalo plaza and pledged to march peacefully to the National Auditorium, where Calderon is scheduled to address the nation.

Lopez Obrador, refusing to recognize Calderon's victory, has set up a parallel government of sorts and declared himself "legitimate president" of Mexico.

"This shows once again the violence of the PRD," said the ruling party's Senate leader, Santiago Creel, who expressed confidence that Calderon would still be able to complete the constitutional ritual.

While Fox argues that Calderon automatically became president at midnight Thursday, some constitutional experts say Calderon must first be sworn in "before congress," leaving confusion about who was in charge of Mexico for roughly nine hours. The constitution states that Fox's last day in office was Thursday.

Even Creel, interviewed on television inside the chamber Friday, was left talking about "the two presidents of Mexico."

Creel was referring to Fox and Calderon - not Lopez Obrador.

Lopez Obrador was unlikely to get anywhere near Congress, ringed by several layers of 10-foot-high steel barriers and thousands of riot police. But conditions inside the building were even more chaotic.

Democratic Revolution and ruling party legislators had camped out in the huge Congressional chamber since Tuesday, wrestling and shoving for control of parts of the stage and later camping out with pillows, blankets and pizza.

Fox had previously said he would go to Congress with Calderon to hand over the presidential sash, but Democratic Revolution has objected to his presence, accusing the former leader of throwing the elections to Calderon. The midnight ceremony meant there was little reason for Fox to attend, although Creel said he was still welcome.

Amid the chaos, dignitaries began arriving, including Nicaraguan President Enrique Bolanos, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe and Spanish Prince Felipe Asturias, walking down an entrance lined by soldiers carrying bayonets and dressed in ceremonial attire. There was no sign of former President George H. W. Bush and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, both of whom were scheduled to attend.

"The situation here at Congress isn't worrisome," Bolanos said. "These things happen all over the world."

Calderon's office prepared a third ceremony - at the massive and heavily guarded National Auditorium on the other side of Mexico City, in which he planned to address the nation. He then planned to go to an adjacent military parade ground where army commanders will swear allegiance to the elected head of state, symbolizing the military's tradition of staying out of politics since the 1930s.

_____

Associated Press reporter E. Eduardo Castillo contributed to this report.
[/quote]

This is my version:

[quote author=The Treasure of La Malinche]Foreword

(11-29-2006) 07:49 PST MEXICO CITY, Mexico (Talk Mexico Online News)

With live television cameras rolling, members of the leftist Democratic Revolution Party wrestled, punched and threw chairs at their conservative colleagues, turning Mexico's Congress into a brawl in an attempt to prevent incoming President Felipe Calderon from taking the oath of office.

Carlos Navarette, Senate leader for the Democratic Revolution Party said that his party would do whatever was necessary to keep Calderon out of the chamber. "We'll see if he can get in," Navarette said, adding, "If he does take office, it will be at his own risk."

Coincidental to the brawl in the congressional chambers, supporters of the PRD, whose candidate, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, narrowly lost the presidency to Calderon, amassed by the thousands in the capital's main Zócalo plaza in protest to the election.

In anticipation of the standoff, Calderon accepted control of the presidential residence from outgoing President Vicente Fox in an unprecedented midnight ceremony. In the live broadcast from Los Pinos, Calderon called on Mexicans to unite. "I am not unaware of the complexity of the political times we are living through, nor of our differences," Calderon said. "But I am convinced that today we should put an end to our disagreements and from there, start a new stage whose only aim would be to place the interests of the nation above our differences."

Meanwhile, Lopez Obrador, who refuses to recognize Calderon's election victory, has established a government of his own declaring himself "legitimate president" of Mexico.

The ruling party's senate leader, Santiago Creel expressed his disdain for the leftists. "This shows once again the violence of the PRD."

Foreign dignitaries began arriving amid the chaos. In attendance were Nicaraguan President Enrique Bolanos, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe and Spanish Prince Felipe Asturias. Not present were former President George H. W. Bush and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, both of whom were scheduled to attend.

Calderon's office has planned a third ceremony at the heavily guarded National Auditorium and the adjacent military parade where army commanders will swear allegiance to the elected head of state.

"The ceremony is a symbol of the military's traditional promise to stay out of politics," Senator Miguel Lopez Guiro said in a recent interview. "This tradition has continued since the 1930s but as Mexico faces serious questions of the effectiveness of its government; with escalating turf wars between drug gangs and bloody street battles in the southern city of Oaxaca, many military leaders are expressing grave concerns. We must end the corruption in state and local governments and take back our country from the criminals and drug traffickers."

Guiro, who is well-known for his ties to monarchists in Spain and is married to Spanish Countess Veronica de Vigo, is a proponent of using federal police and Mexican army units to combat the drug cartels and clean up the notoriously corrupt local police departments.

Many Mexico watchers, including the U.S. CIA, share the opinion of Guiro. Their concern is that Mexico's military structure of twelve military regions with forty-five subordinate military zones, each with its own semi-autonomous commander creates an atmosphere ripe for corruption. Each military zone commander has complete jurisdiction over every unit operating in his territory, including the Rurales and his own internal command and control structure while rank and file private soldiers are always recruited from the local communities so that they can serve close to their families.

Talk Mexico reporter Bernal E. Castillo contributed to this report.
[/quote]

EDIT: Here's the link -

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/12/01/international/i062738S52.DTL


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

How is _Lonely is the Soldier_ coming?


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

So then we jump from this neat (almost totally factual) news report to the courtroom.  We have NO idea why we are there. And what a way to introduce Maggie!!!!  At this point you had me HOOKED.
I could not have decided to put the book down.  It was no longer a concious choice.
So was there an excavation AS-21798? 
And just when I had no idea where things were going, we find the judge asking Maggie about her mother and her step father.  Which she was not prepared for.  Hmmmmm.
And then it is suggested that she has a "sexual appetite".
And bam we are into the first talk radio transmission.  What neat transition.
And what a great technique to get us from one place/time to another. And we are told beyond a doubt that Maggie is HOT.
I just like this technique.  Have I already said that?  Well I don't care. I'll say it again.
I have never heard of Jeff Hepple before, but I am now a fan.  And I was at this time in the book.
How about the rest of you?


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

I wonder if the excavation site is a real location too.

Maggie appears to be the whole lock, stock and smokin' barrel of the book, of course she would be a Hot pistol.

Well, let me try to think here, my sister just called and my brother in law is now being put on a ventilator, it doesn't look good....back to my thoughts...

I also like the way the story goes from current to past history, that could be one of my favorite parts about it.

My story is that when I joined Kindleboards in Nov and got my Kindle, there was a free book to be offered here from a guy named Jeff. So I asked Jeff for the free book. I started reading the book and was wondering if this Jeffry S Hepple was that same Jeff from our site...when he said yes I was so totally amazed that I got to meet this author. I was embarrassed too that I didn't realize it was him to begin with. Just a little history of how I came about to know Jeff. His was my first book on Kindle and the first book I read on it too.

-Sailor


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

sailor said:


> I wonder if the excavation site is a real location too.




I still want to know how Veronica got that book into the gold box and placed under a calendar stone that had to be lifted with a fork lift. But I'll let Jeff off the hook on that one and use my imagination.



> Maggie appears to be the whole lock, stock and smokin' barrel of the book, of course she would be a Hot pistol.


I call Vol. 2 "Maggie grows up." In Vol. 1, she was a loose cannon. She's the catalyst for the action that swirls around her like a tornado.



> Well, let me try to think here, my sister just called and my brother in law is now being put on a ventilator, it doesn't look good....back to my thoughts...


Gad, don't just throw something like that out there. My prayers are with you and your family.



> I also like the way the story goes from current to past history, that could be one of my favorite parts about it.


Yes, Jeff keeps us moving around, not only from past to present, but from storyline to storyline and place to place. I particularly like the news radio talk show. It brings the outside world into the story and expands the focus.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> How is _Lonely is the Soldier_ coming?


No recent progress, Gertie. I've been buried in IT stuff and in the process of reformatting _The Treasure of La Malinche_ to include all your edits. Thank you very much.

The courier fonts don't translate on the Kindle so I'm trying to find some way to visually distinguish the main story from the radio reports and the memoir so they look similar to the paper version.



sailor said:


> I wonder if the excavation site is a real location too.
> 
> Maggie appears to be the whole lock, stock and smokin' barrel of the book, of course she would be a Hot pistol.
> 
> ...


I originally used map coordinates of an existing excavation but decided that might be a bad idea and changed it to a fictional designator. There is in reality a huge calendar round in the Mexico City Museum:








I've valued your support more than I can say, Diane, and hope your brother-in-law recovers completely and soon.



geoffthomas said:


> So then we jump from this neat (almost totally factual) news report to the courtroom. We have NO idea why we are there. And what a way to introduce Maggie!!!! At this point you had me HOOKED.
> I could not have decided to put the book down. It was no longer a concious choice.
> So was there an excavation AS-21798?
> And just when I had no idea where things were going, we find the judge asking Maggie about her mother and her step father. Which she was not prepared for. Hmmmmm.
> ...


Thank you, Geoff, I'm absolutely delighted that you liked the book and that you were interested enough to start this thread.

I would also like to thank Betsy for agreeing to this discussion thread experiment and hope that the other members of this forum don't find it too intrusive.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

That sure is a gigantic calendar round.  

I have a question about something that Maggie said.  I'm pretty sure it was Maggie and not Veronica, or maybe Maggie was parroting Veronica.  

She was talking about the present government being a revolutionary government and therefore not legal.  That the de Vigo's right to rule came from their descendancy from all the major royal houses, with a connection to Emperor Maximilian, who, as she says, was the last legal ruler of Mexico.  

Does this coincide with any of the present day movements (small or large) in Mexico?  Are there those who feel as Guiro does that there should be a constitutional monarchy?  

I hear the swine flu has entered Texas and killed a child.  Be careful.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> I have a question about something that Maggie said...talking about the present [Mexican] government being a revolutionary government and therefore not legal.


Legality is defined by the government in power so the Mexico's revolutionary government that seized power from Maximilian is legal. The Institutional Revolutionary Party (Partido Revolucionario Institucional or PRI) controlled the country under several names until the presidential election of 2000 and still controls most of the country outside of Mexico City.



Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> That the de Vigo's right to rule came from their descendancy from all the major royal houses, with a connection to Emperor Maximilian, who, as she says, was the last legal ruler of Mexico.


The de Vigo peerage is pure fiction, although there is in fact a city in southwestern Spain called de Vigo. In truth, Maximilian had no children. Don Agustín de Iturbide y Green, Maximilian's adopted son, became Head of the Imperial House of Mexico after Maximilian was executed by firing squad at the order of Mexican revolutionary leader Benito Juarez . The current rightful heir, Don Maximiliano de Götzen - Iturbide who inherits through both the Iturbide lineage and the Habsburg tradition has made no claim on the vacant Throne of Mexico to date.



Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Does this coincide with any of the present day movements (small or large) in Mexico? Are there those who feel as Guiro does that there should be a constitutional monarchy?


There are numerous movements in both Spain and Mexico to reinstate the monarchy in Mexico. The constitutional monarchy in Spain was more or less volunteered by King Juan Carlos and was decried by the strict monarchists who helped bring him to power.

The facts of Mexico's current financial conditions, the monetary system, the dire debt ratio of Pemex and the vanishing oil reserves have not been exaggerated in the novel. Unless some drastic action is taken very soon, Mexico will sufferer a financial meltdown with catastrophic repercussions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Reserves_in_Mexico

The fictional accounts of Guiro's attempts to convince the public that they must accept foreign investment are fictional only because the Guiro character is fictional. Both Presidents Vincent Fix and Felipe De Jesus Calderon have made impassioned speeches that resulted in garbage and abuse being thrown at them. There is simply no way that the Mexican people are every going to agree to permit the elected government to save itself from ruin so perhaps the only hope is a very charismatic monarch.

Now I have a question for everyone else: Is the conclusion of _The Treasure of La Malinche_ really as unlikely and fantastic as some have said?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Now I have a question for everyone else: Is the conclusion of _The Treasure of La Malinche_ really as unlikely and fantastic as some have said?


You mean walking in on Mueller and taking him down with a poisoned ring? Or Maggie likely becoming Empress of Mexico? Or LaMalinche getting her revenge by having one of her descendants rule Mexico?

Mueller - It's one of the things I like about this book. I mentioned it in a previous post. Drug lords, assassins ... they can be taken down. They are protected more by the fear that they generate than anything else. They become cocky and arrogant, which leads to complacency until the unlikeliest and most pedestrian scenario occurs. Carlos the Jackal was incarcerated by political expediency. Pablo Escobar was eventually hounded to death. Yes, they were brought down by the combined effort of several governments, but it is just as likely that some inconspicuous person could slip through their defenses and do the deed.

You built up to Maggie becoming Empress Maggie by her accomplishments; her rallying of the Mexican people, etc. I've said before that Vol. 2 is "Maggie grows up," and she did. The public saw it, too. At that point, the people didn't know who to trust. She became a beacon of hope, probably aided by her association with Guiro and his heroic exploits as the leader of Guiro's Guerillas. Being associated with Linc didn't hurt her public image, either.

Why not Maggie being descended from Dona Marina? This is a work of fiction and you have pretty much stuck with the known facts of her life, few though they are. As the author, you are allowed to "fill in the blanks" of history, which you did cleverly and convincingly. Phillipa Gregory does the same thing with the Tudors.

Alistair MacLean wrote action/adventure/cold war novels 30-40 years ago. His characters performed inhuman feats of strength, daring and cunning, and nobody thought twice about it. In one "unlikely and fantastic" effort, the hero ran back and forth about 10 miles several times in a 24 hour period (maybe 36 hours). I think it was _Caravans_. Now that is ridiculous. BTW, my favorite MacLean is _Ice Station Zebra_.

Maybe those reviewers should read some Wilbur Smith if they want unlikely and fantastic. _The Golden Fox_ comes to mind.

Anyway, you're the author; we're the readers, and we're happy.

Have I rambled on enough, yet? 

Thanks for all the information. I'll read the article later.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

The way you wrote this makes it seem very real and factual.

Like Sailor, I joined KBs in November, there was a book being offered for free, I bit!  Boy if I ever did anything right this was it.  Jeff's books are incredible!  And I think one of the best things is we get to know the author.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Anju No. 469 said:


> Like Sailor, I joined KBs in November, there was a book being offered for free, I bit!


Thanks, Dona. As our resident Texan, expat in Mexico, I think we'd all like to hear your opinion of the future of Pemex and Mexico.

Gertie, my question about the end of the book was really in reference to this line in a review: "With outrageous characters and plot devices that push the edge of credibility - There is a Spanish Countess who plans on subverting Mexican Politics and thereby have herself instated as the hieratical Empress of Mexico - this reader started to feel that he was traveling through one long "I Love Lucy" episode..." It's a great review for which I'm grateful but that first line has always worried me.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Thanks, Dona. As our resident Texan, expat in Mexico, I think we'd all like to hear your opinion of the future of Pemex and Mexico.


Yes, we would.



> Gertie, my question about the end of the book was really in reference to this line in a review: "With outrageous characters and plot devices that push the edge of credibility - There is a Spanish Countess who plans on subverting Mexican Politics and thereby have herself instated as the hieratical Empress of Mexico - this reader started to feel that he was traveling through one long "I Love Lucy" episode..." It's a great review for which I'm grateful but that first line has always worried me.


Certainly, in the limited sphere of my existence, I am not about to meet a Maggie or Veronica or Linc, etc., but such people do exist. I can accept that with no problem. Heck, Cortes existed and he's pretty over-the-top himself.

Treasure is an epic historical action/adventure novel. Reading this type of book requires the reader to delve into a world with which most of us do not ever come in contact. Wilbur Smith, John D. McDonald, Alistair MacClean, Helen McInnes, Len Deighton, Frederick Forsythe, Robert Ludlum; they all do the same thing. It's part and parcel of the genre.

I don't read stories about ordinary people facing ordinary problems. I can look in the mirror for that. It's why I don't read authors like Joyce Carol Oates, and there's a very popular Irish author (senior moment ... no name) that I just can't get into.

As for the "I Love Lucy" comment, Linc's women troubles did have me snorting and snickering many times. If this reviewer reads a book like Treasure and all he can see is Lucy and Desi, then the problem lies with the reviewer.

Or as my grandfather always said ... take it from where it comes.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

HAH!!!  Maeve Binchey.  I haven't lost it, yet ... but I'm getting close.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> As for the "I Love Lucy" comment, Linc's women troubles did have me snorting and snickering many times. If this reviewer reads a book like Treasure and all he can see is Lucy and Desi, then the problem lies with the reviewer.


I have no problem at all with the reviewer or his review. In fact because he's always such an honest critic his "Lucy" comment really worried me and I just wanted some other opinions. Thank you, Gertie.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff,

Since you asked. . . .I have to say I totally understand what the reveiwer was saying. I started reading and got a little more than a third of the way into Volume 1 and just had no desire to continue. The conversation was, to me, very unreal. . . .even sit-com-ish, which is where, I guess, the _I Love Lucy_ comment came from. Mind you, ILL is slapstick and I didn't see it exactly that way, more like _Friends_.

Overall, it just wasn't moving fast enough for me and they seemed to be doing foolish things just for purposes of setting a scene. Like, they really really shouldn't have gone to Mexico for lunch which precipitated the whole border standoff. She's supposedly in fear for her life but she's going to cross the border, where she might be considered a fugitive, just for a good burrito? Come on. Also, the "Indian" guy seemed to be being set up as the bad guy, but, boom, he disses the daughter and Mom has him killed. O.k.: Protagonist just lost the main antagonist, as I read it. At that point I didn't care enough about the characters to go on.

But, hey, I'm just one person. Clearly lots of other folks have really enjoyed it. I haven't, and won't, write a review on Amazon, because I just don't usually and, anyway, I didn't finish it. But I wouldn't give it more than 2 stars based on what I read.

Ann


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks, Ann. You were the second person to download _The Treasure of La Malinche_ to your Kindle and from your lack of feedback I knew you didn't like it.

The fact is that I dislike many of the books that the majority of KindleBoards members enjoy so it seems logical that if my taste in reading is outside the mainstream, my writing will be too. I've had enough success with these two books to keep writing but I have no illusions about ever writing a best seller.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Overall, it just wasn't moving fast enough for me and they seemed to be doing foolish things just for purposes of setting a scene. Like, they really really shouldn't have gone to Mexico for lunch which precipitated the whole border standoff. She's supposedly in fear for her life but she's going to cross the border, where she might be considered a fugitive, just for a good burrito?
> Ann


Yeah, it was an idiotic thing to do (you and I wouldn't do it), but consistent with Maggie's self-centered, know-it-all, I-want-what-I-want-when-I-want-it character.

I think part of the reason Vol. 2 was better than Vol. 1 is that Maggie evolves and grows into someone that, while still somewhat impulsive, learns to care for and about other people.

So far I'm enjoying Jeff's _Gone for a Soldier_. It's an entirely different read.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Thanks, Ann. You were the second person to download _The Treasure of La Malinche_ to your Kindle and from your lack of feedback I knew you didn't like it.


Not everyone's cup of tea. You were surprised that I liked it.



> The fact is that I dislike many of the books that the majority of KindleBoards members enjoy so it seems logical that if my taste in reading is outside the mainstream, my writing will be too. I've had enough success with these two books to keep writing but I have no illusions about ever writing a best seller.


Yes, Jeff, please keep writing.


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## askenase13 (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm about 20% through volume 1 and enjoying, but I do skim a little on the historical biography.  I've skipped over the comments here that talk about the ending of Volume 1 so I can maintain a surprise,  A fun read so far.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Yeah, it was an idiotic thing to do (you and I wouldn't do it), but consistent with Maggie's self-centered, know-it-all, I-want-what-I-want-when-I-want-it character.


Ha ha. You're right.

The hardest part of writing this book was trying to create a fictional story that tied the events of the Conquest of Mexico to current events in Mexico. More specifically I needed some way to introduce the reader to the chaos that exists along much of the Mexican border today such as the true incident of the sheriff of Palomas, Mexico seeking sanctuary in Columbus, New Mexico. There was no good, logical way to do it, so I had to exert Maggie's control over Link's better judgment. I knew I was stretching things a bit but I hoped I'd hooked the reader's interest enough to get beyond it. Finding a way to educate a reader without losing the reader's interest is always challenging. You win a few, you lose a few and some are rained out.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Thanks, Ann. You were the second person to download _The Treasure of La Malinche_ to your Kindle and from your lack of feedback I knew you didn't like it.


I'm impressed that you remembered that. . .but, really, I only just got around to starting to read it about a month ago. I really wanted to like it. . . .but I just couldn't keep at it. . . . .perhaps I'll try the soldiering book!

Ann


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> . . .perhaps I'll try the soldiering book!


Let me give you a copy because I think you'll hate it. I'll send you a PM with the download URL.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

askenase13 said:


> I'm about 20% through volume 1 and enjoying, but I do skim a little on the historical biography. I've skipped over the comments here that talk about the ending of Volume 1 so I can maintain a surprise, A fun read so far.


The history is why I got the book in the first place.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Jeff, you said: 
_There are numerous movements in both Spain and Mexico to reinstate the monarchy in Mexico. The constitutional monarchy in Spain was more or less volunteered by King Juan Carlos and was decried by the strict monarchists who helped bring him to power. I feel the need to make some comments about the "Lucy" review/remarks._
I found all this fascinating. And it has made me feel better to have you tell us the line between fact and fiction on this one. I have had some experience with friends in CA who refuse to be referred to as Latinos (they take offense to it). They are Castillians, thank you very much.  They trace their ancestry through many generations to Spain. So this part struck a cord.
Also
For what it it worth, Drug/Crime leaders scare the beejabbers out of me. I believe that few are as dumb as portrayed here. Some do show up but they are the ones that are sacrificed for show, I believe.
_Now I have a question for everyone else: Is the conclusion of The Treasure of La Malinche really as unlikely and fantastic as some have said?_
I am happy to suspend the need for things to make sense (we do this for Harry Potter, right). I accept the fiction writer's world as he/she presents it. I am one of those people that likes a good ending. I don't like to see the bad guys win or read about the human race facing a long and lingering death. "On The Beach" depressed the heck out of me and the television show "The Day After" (did I get that right) made me wish I had not watched it. Has it's place but I don't seek these out daily.
I read the Lucy review also. And felt that it was ill-worded. 
While I agree that some of the best fiction is about a normal day for a normal person. Take Steinbecks The Grapes of Wrath. Or One day in the life of Ivan Desisovich by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. The former a book about a very average person undergoing for most of the book normal daily stuff. Same thing for Ivan except that the daily stuff was not nice. So maybe reading about non-normal people is more enjoyable. 
I have to stop here and say I cannot even get a couple pages into a romance novel - get stopped in my tracks. Even the classic writers like Jane Austen are heavy going for me. Too much focus on feelings not enough on character development, action or factual background. And I have no trouble wading through James Michener's long works - because he is telling a back story or a side story - key word is a story.
I have known some people who (nice though they might try to be) were so self-indulgent that they kept on doing things that made no sense - like Maggie wearing a bikini while trying to "hide". With looks like hers, showing skin was a big neon sign. But she just had to "get out" and "get some sun". Know the type. So I am not so sure that I Love Lucy is a deserved phrase. Too harsh a criticism for me.

I probably have beat this subject to death here. But there are a lot of things that I find trouble with in some literary reviews. I can suspend my concern for bad spelling and bad grammar and illogical conclusions if the author is moving rapidly along (called a page turner) and making a point. I cannot tell you if The Kite Runner was "well written" or not. It was a great read.


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

As far as Maggie being air-headed, I know quite a few Mexican "girls" who are.  They are supposedly intelligent and well-grounded, but ?  Yes I can see them in a red bikini trying to disappear in the crowd, and they could very easily.  The older Mexican women are more conservative in their dress, the young ones (under 40) show bellies, backsides, low cuts - very low cuts - even some wear short shorts.  So this is very realistic.  Ging across the border when it is dangerous, I can give you the girl down the street who would do it.  Most youngsters (meaning anyone under 40) are indestructible.  Of course, what I dislike most are the non-Mexican's, of an age, wearing short shorts and low cut tops.  This area is NOT a typical beach tourist area.  Rant over.

As far as Pemex - that is a very difficult issue.  The ruling party does not have the strength to bully their way through, and the non-ruling party is banking on this and making lots of noise.  Mexico is going to be in big trouble and I am afraid in the not too far future.  This flu problem could even help make things worse.  Although it has been said 36,000 people die of the flu every year, so what is the big thing about this?  Drugs are the big problem!  We even have, rumored, a drug lord living in the area, maybe only part time, who owns a new restaurant probably for money laundering.  This is only a rumor but when you see the big fancy hummers and jags and other fancy cars around it is hard to not believe.  This is one restaurant I will not go to, partly because of the rumor and partly because of the location not being that convenient for us. 

I do hope Pemex makes it, because Mexico needs it.  Mexico has a lot of problems with graft, bureauracy, familial preferences and poverty.  I would not call us a third world country, but definitely a 2-1/2.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

So about the "House of Many Women".
Is there really such a place?
Has it been there since the time of LaMalinche?
Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> So about the "House of Many Women".
> Is there really such a place?
> Has it been there since the time of LaMalinche?
> Inquiring minds want to know.


Thanks for pulling this thread back up, Geoff.

It almost sounds like one of those Chinese "flower boats." My guess is that it's been there a long time in various incarnations.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> So about the "House of Many Women".
> Is there really such a place?
> Has it been there since the time of LaMalinche?
> Inquiring minds want to know.


Sorry to disappoint you, Geoff, but it's a total fabrication. I've never even been to that part of Mexico.

The house I described was an old hacienda in Corrales, New Mexico which had been converted to a restaurant. I can't remember the name of the place and don't know if it still exists but there was a tree in the front courtyard where some famous bandit was hanged. Maybe one of our New Mexico members can tell us.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, Geoff, but it's a total fabrication. I've never even been to that part of Mexico.


The mark of a good storyteller.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

You know that was one of the things that I was SURE was a neat factoid.
Great work!  I am with Gertie.....good fabrication - I loved it.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Generally speaking, in a book in the genre of Treasure, there's not a lot of room for character development.  Treasure is the exception.  There are some two-dimensional characters such as David Red Thunder and Juan Duran, but they are two-dimensional people.  

As for the rest, even Veronica showed some growth, while Maggie, Miguel and Tory grew and changed, definitely for the better.  

So, succession to the throne time.  I see little Jimmy as Maggie's stepgrandson being her successor.  Emperor Jimmy Dennison.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> The mark of a good storyteller.


I agree, Jeff can sure fabricate some really good stories. I guess that is what it takes to become such a good writer, they can make anything work in their favor.

Sailor


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> You know that was one of the things that I was SURE was a neat factoid.


The historical data about La Malinche are very skimpy. Her real name is even the subject of much heated debate. I chose to select the information that seemed most logical given what I knew about Cortes and I filled in the blanks by more or less connecting those dots.



Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> There are some two-dimensional characters such as David Red Thunder and Juan Duran, but they are two-dimensional people.


I can't tell you who Red Thunder is based upon or I'll get sued.
If Pablo Escoba had a younger bother who had inherited the cartel after Pablo was assassinated, how would the brother have handled all that power without the experience of earning it?"


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff said:


> The historical data about La Malinche are very skimpy. Her real name is even the subject of much heated debate. I chose to select the information that seemed most logical given what I knew about Cortes and I filled in the blanks by more or less connecting those dots.


Like placing La Malinche with Coronado. As I said before ... brilliant move.



> I can't tell you who Red Thunder is based upon or I'll get sued.


Talk











> If Pablo Escoba had a younger bother who had inherited the cartel after Pablo was assassinated, how would the brother have handled all that power without the experience of earning it?"


I saw the documentary on The History Channel. When I first read about La Gata, I thought she was part of that guerilla group that helped take down Escobar.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Jeff, I'm curious about some elements of the story.  Why Jake and Tory?  Did you have a specific purpose in mind by introducing him and then having Mueller kill him?


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Jeff, I'm curious about some elements of the story. Why Jake and Tory? Did you have a specific purpose in mind by introducing him and then having Mueller kill him?


You know I am still wondering about this one. Sure liked his entire family - that was a nice iterlude. Did I miss something deeper here or was this part just window dressing?


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## Anju  (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree Geoff, something happened there, but then the story would not have continued as it did.  Maybe Jeff's fingers got away from him like Al Past's does occasionally, or even Mike Hicks.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> You know I am still wondering about this one. Sure liked his entire family - that was a nice iterlude. Did I miss something deeper here or was this part just window dressing?





Anju No. 469 said:


> I agree Geoff, something happened there, but then the story would not have continued as it did. Maybe Jeff's fingers got away from him like Al Past's does occasionally, or even Mike Hicks.


It seems to me that Jake was an "innocent" in the story. He had no idea what he was getting into by marrying Tory. He didn't understand her or her background. Sure, he could take care of himself under normal circumstances, but not in these situations.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

I've been trying to stay away from anything that looked like promoting until Harvey and his moderators get all the kinks worked out of their new system, but ignoring you folks further would be rude - so here goes:



Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> Jeff, I'm curious about some elements of the story. Why Jake and Tory? Did you have a specific purpose in mind by introducing him and then having Mueller kill him?


No. It was a surprise to me too. See below.



geoffthomas said:


> You know I am still wondering about this one. Sure liked his entire family - that was a nice interlude. Did I miss something deeper here or was this part just window dressing?


Sometimes in life, we meet people that we really like but circumstances intervene and we never see them again.



Anju No. 469 said:


> I agree Geoff, something happened there, but then the story would not have continued as it did. Maybe Jeff's fingers got away from him like Al Past's does occasionally, or even Mike Hicks.


I write to an event time-line rather than an outline. The characters have to arrive at the benchmarks but I have no more idea than the reader does of how they'll get there or who they'll meet on the way. I just put my mind in the place and time and then write down what happens as it happens.

Jake appeared, fell in love with Tory and events took their logical course.



Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' said:


> It seems to me that Jake was an "innocent" in the story. He had no idea what he was getting into by marrying Tory. He didn't understand her or her background. Sure, he could take care of himself under normal circumstances, but not in these situations.


Jake decided to prove his masculinity at a time when an assassin was stalking his new family and he paid a heavy price for his vanity.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Thank you for your kindness in responding.
I have one other kindness to ask of you.
Is there  a place for discussing Going For A Soldier?
Wow.

Just sayin......indeed.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeff, for the record. . . ..there is absolutely no problem with responding to readers questions and comments in a thread dedicated to your book. . . . .no worries!

Ann


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> Is there a place for discussing Gone For A Soldier?


I'll be happy to answer your questions in this thread or by PM but I'm not willing to create a promotional page in the new book bazaar.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Ah, but it is within the rules for one of "us" to start a thread discussing a book and invite the author to comment there.  Right Ann?
Ann....I know you there (lol).


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Anyone can start a discussion thread here on any book.  

That's probably better than trying to discuss two very different works in the same thread.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Ann in Arlington said:


> Anyone can start a discussion thread here on any book.


Anyone who doesn't write books, you mean?


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

More precisely: "anyone who doesn't write the book in question". 

I know our system is not perfect, but it's part of our attempt to keep the Book Bazaar as the place for author promo threads. However, authors are welcome to participate in the Book Corner threads that may appear related to their works. So, if a reader has started a discussion thread on one of your books, you can certainly participate in that thread.


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Harvey said:


> More precisely: "anyone who doesn't write the book in question".


Perhaps I misunderstood what you said in your original announcement.



Harvey said:


> I know our system is not perfect, but it's part of our attempt to keep the Book Bazaar as the place for author promo threads.


I do not wish to participate in your Book Bazaar but I would like to retain my membership here as a reader. Toward that end I have removed all references to my books from my signature.



Harvey said:


> However, authors are welcome to participate in the Book Corner threads that may appear related to their works. So, if a reader has started a discussion thread on one of your books, you can certainly participate in that thread.


Any reader who was to start such a thread would risk being labeled a "sock puppet", at your sole discretion. I would not wish that on anyone.

Edited to remove excess CR/LFs.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Jeff]
[quote author=Harvey said:


> More precisely: "anyone who doesn't write the book in question".


Perhaps I misunderstood what you said in your original announcement. [/quote]

Simply put, authors are not prohibited from posting threads in the Book Corner if they're about other people's books that they're interested in. Authors have all the rights of other members here.



Jeff]
[quote author=Harvey said:


> I know our system is not perfect, but it's part of our attempt to keep the Book Bazaar as the place for author promo threads.


I do not wish to participate in your Book Bazaar but I would like to retain my membership here as a reader. Toward that end I have removed all references to my books from my signature.
[/quote]

Okay, but you don't even have to remove your books from your signature, unless of course you wish to.



Jeff]
[quote author=Harvey said:


> However, authors are welcome to participate in the Book Corner threads that may appear related to their works. So, if a reader has started a discussion thread on one of your books, you can certainly participate in that thread.


Any reader who was to start such a thread would risk being labeled a "sock puppet", at your sole discretion. I would not wish that on anyone.
[/quote]

All I can say is, trust that we're not going to go about throwing that label down arbitrarily. You really can tell, pretty accurately, when one author is promoting another author in a quid pro quo arrangement. This is commonly seen in other boards. Our only defense against it is to have the 'sock puppet' rule.

Jeff, you have a good following of readers here, who are enthused about your books! I see no reason to inhibit them from starting discussions about them in the Book Corner.

I thought, and still think, that we had found a relatively happy medium that will work and be pretty effective for authors as well as readers.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I guess I'm too tired to figure out what having an author participate in a member-started discussion thread about his book has to do with the promotional threads that are now in the Book Bazaar....sigh.

I need more wine. And I'm going to bed. I think I'll play Scarlett O'Hara tonight and think about it tomorrow.

Betsy


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Harvey said:


> You really can tell, pretty accurately, when one author is promoting another author in a quid pro quo arrangement. This is commonly seen in other boards. Our only defense against it is to have the 'sock puppet' rule.


Many of us have become friends here, Harvey. Friendship is by its very nature, a quid pro quo arrangement.

I became friends with the woman that we all know as Gertie Kindle because she genuinely liked my book and was interested enough in it to spend many hours editing it for me. During the time she was editing, we began discussing her aspirations as an author and I soon became a genuine Margaret Lake fan.

Are Gertie and I now "Sock Puppets"? I guess so; if you completely ignore the fact that we each sincerely like the other's book and want to tell our friends.

The one thing I know for certain is that your "Sock Puppet" rule is like the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head. Because of that rule I say less than I really want to about Gertie's book and about books written by other friends.

I've already said far more than I intended and will shut up now and go to bed with Scarlett O'Hara.


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## KBoards Admin (Nov 27, 2007)

Jeff said:


> ...
> Are Gertie and I now "Sock Puppets"? I guess so; if you completely ignore the fact that we each sincerely like the other's book and want to tell our friends.
> ...


Easy question, with an easy answer: No. You're not sock puppets. And, as I said, I can clearly tell the difference. This doesn't have to be this hard.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I "think" that an issue here is the who is starting an "advertising/discussion" thread.
I think such a thread is neat.
I just don't like being barraged with the advertising.

As I understand the current "rules" - it is OK for an author to start a thread about his/her own work as long as it is in the bazaar - right?
And it is alright for anyone, even another author, to start a discussion thread in the book corner - right again?
This would be what Jeff did for Gertie, right?
And that particular thread is OK, right?
It sure got a lot of people happy and posting and having a good time sharing, right?
And it is OK for a non-author to start such a thread, as I did with this one, right?
So there are many opportunities for all of us to start whatever we like, as long as we kinda do it in the right place, right?
And authors, especially Jeff and Gertie and Mike and Ed, etc. are always welcome to post in any thread and..........wait for it.........even mention their own books (in context  - like "that is what I was trying to get across in chapter 14 of My Incredible Memoirs), right?
What we don't want is for authors (some were doing it) to keep posting just to insert their book into threads all over the forum.  Which Jeff and Gertie and Mike were NOT doing, right?
Or have I been naive?


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## Jeff (Oct 28, 2008)

Very well, Harvey, let's see how it goes.

Geoff, this little diversion began as an answer to your question about a place to discuss _Gone For a Soldier_. Your answer is that I cannot start the topic here in The Book Corner but you can if you wish.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

geoffthomas said:


> I "think" that an issue here is the who is starting an "advertising/discussion" thread.
> I think such a thread is neat.
> I just don't like being barraged with the advertising.
> 
> ...


J. Worthington Foxworthy
author of Minnie's Household Remedies
a free gallon of bleach with every purchase

wants to know.


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Hey how about the actions in Morelia, Mexico this week. Twelve people identified as national police were killed by the La Familia cartel as reprisal for the arrest of Arnoldo Rueda Medina.  This in the president Calderon's home state of Michoacan.  Now this sure sounds like it came right out of your books.

Thoughts people?


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Americans tend to be pretty insular in that we think we are only affected by what goes on in our own country.  Jeff's books certainly raised my consciousness.  It's obvious from your post, Geoff, that he didn't exaggerate what is going on down there.


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