# Can't Sell Erotica?



## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

So yeah, as I mentioned in another thread while my sci-fi is steaming along nicely in recent months I've had a little trouble pushing my erotica shorts. It hasn't been helped by me burning through all my Select free days in the first month, but yeah... a lot of writers just say "build erotica and they will _come_", but I've obviously missed some vital step.

Before May I was pricing the shorts at $1.49, the collection at $3.99. I found sales to be fairly lackluster and since sales of my novels went up when I moved out of the $2.99 price point I decided to bring them up to $2.99, with $5.99 for the collection.

In May I sold 13 shorts including borrows, plus 5 copies of the collection, which was my best month so far in terms of revenue and quite good in raw numbers too. This took all my Select free days though since they all renewed in that month. However, in June I sold 2 copies of the shorts, and 4 of the collection (and a borrow).

Not exactly breaking the bank here.

I've got a nice looking cover, the stuff should be fairly typo and error free, so... I don't know what the issue is really. Very open to suggestions; be brutal if necessary.

Some thoughts:

- Maybe Select is a bad choice for this genre, because the free days never seem to get any traction; they get a hundred or so downloads a day, which results in a handful of sales post-free. Very underwhelming.
- I know a lot of authors write shorts at the $2.99 price point, but still, maybe I'm overpricing?
- Should I unpublish the collection?
- Is it simply a question of volume? Would more shorts help?
- Is something wrong with the theme? Should I write different stuff?

I dunno. Hit me with your rythem stick, KB!

Edit: Shorts here:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0072LGW7U/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0072KRKJU/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0076O69AS/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00771E7DG/

And the collection's in my sig.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

I admit the valley girl voice that starts the collection really annoyed me, preventing me from making past the first full page of the collection. It might works for others, but it didn't work for me.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

#1 This may sound out there, but your red book cover doesn't make me blush. If I were in the workplace and had it on my screen, I don't know if I'd be embarrassed. Can you move around the top red bar to show a little more flesh? Or shrink the people so I can figure out what's happening? More tatas? Please, more tatas. Can they be bouncier? Heaven help me, but I'm suggesting you make it look a little more scandalous.  

Nearly every one of your also-boughts is more ... blush-inducing.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> - Is something wrong with the theme? Should I write different stuff?


I suspect a little variety might help attract more readers, but that's just me. I also think that your blurbs are, um, excessively terse. A little who/what/where/when/why/how would be good. _Especially_ for the collection, which is what you want to be making the money on, right? Go click on five random titles from your also-boughts, and read their blurbs. Then read your five blurbs again, and decide what you'd like to buy, you know?


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Krista D. Ball said:


> I admit the valley girl voice that starts the collection really annoyed me, preventing me from making past the first full page of the collection. It might works for others, but it didn't work for me.


Hah, interesting. Maybe the next one should be the science geek...


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

I do agree that you're never going to see 10K download days with erotica because you're never going to get on POI or someplace like that with it.  But that doesn't mean that you can't get a few hundred really productive downloads if you market in the right places.  Have you tried posting your book on Fetlife?  Or in a place like Summer's What to Read After 50 Shades facebook page?  Have you hit the many Goodreads groups that might be applicable?  

You can continue to play with the price points too.  Try .99 for a short or two to see if you can draw people in.  Put a list of your other shorts in the back of each one.  Give a juicy description of each one and a small excerpt (I realize they're shorts so you don't want to give out the whole thing).  Try to force a price match for your best short down to free and use it as a promo into your others.  

Remember, Erotica is all about niches.  Unlike other genre where people will read something they're not all that crazy about, in erotica, if it isn't working for them, they're done.  But what that means is, once they like you, they'll follow you through everything you write.  You should see a slow but steady build over time as you find your "peeps".


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

dalya said:


> This may sound out there, but your book cover doesn't make me blush. If I were in the workplace and had it on my screen, I don't know if I'd be embarrassed. Can you move around the top red bar to show a little more flesh? More tatas? Heaven help me, but I'm suggesting you make it look a little more scandalous.
> 
> Nearly every one of your also-boughts is more ... blush-inducing.


Racy up the cover. Can do. That's actually not a bad tip... stock art can be had cheaply, so...


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

George Berger said:


> I suspect a little variety might help attract more readers, but that's just me. I also think that your blurbs are, um, excessively terse. A little who/what/where/when/why/how would be good. _Especially_ for the collection, which is what you want to be making the money on, right? Go click on five random titles from your also-boughts, and read their blurbs. Then read your five blurbs again, and decide what you'd like to buy, you know?


It's actually something I have a bit of trouble with. I tend to have really short blurbs, mainly because I try to make them fit inside the product description window without it needing to be expanded. This may not be a great idea though.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Was editing previous post, but ...

#2 Perhaps the word "quickies" is sending the wrong message? In a world of super-size everything ... you should sell big, throbbing, p-pounding stories that are long enough to satisfy. (ohdeari'mgoingdownthisroad) Not suggesting you change the stories, but don't point out their smallness.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

AndreSanThomas said:


> I do agree that you're never going to see 10K download days with erotica because you're never going to get on POI or someplace like that with it. But that doesn't mean that you can't get a few hundred really productive downloads if you market in the right places. Have you tried posting your book on Fetlife? Or in a place like Summer's What to Read After 50 Shades facebook page? Have you hit the many Goodreads groups that might be applicable?


No to Fetlife or Goodreads, but I do post it semi-regularly on the "After 50 Shades" page. I haven't noticed much of an effect.



AndreSanThomas said:


> You can continue to play with the price points too. Try .99 for a short or two to see if you can draw people in. Put a list of your other shorts in the back of each one. Give a juicy description of each one and a small excerpt (I realize they're shorts so you don't want to give out the whole thing). Try to force a price match for your best short down to free and use it as a promo into your others.


99c, unless it's a deliberate loss leader like the Lacuna short stories, is something I try to avoid just because unless you're getting crazy volume there's not that much cash in it. The shorts all have links to eachother in the back, but the excerpt is a good idea.

I've considered price matching since I reckon it probably works better than Select, except that I can't seem to make price matching work on my Lacuna short so I think I'd drive myself crazy trying to get it working on a regular basis.



AndreSanThomas said:


> Remember, Erotica is all about niches. Unlike other genre where people will read something they're not all that crazy about, in erotica, if it isn't working for them, they're done. But what that means is, once they like you, they'll follow you through everything you write. You should see a slow but steady build over time as you find your "peeps".


I suppose the message here is that I've been too generic and should specialize a bit. Not sure how I'd do that, but... I'll definitely give it a bit of thought.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

dalya said:


> Was editing previous post, but ...
> 
> #2 Perhaps the word "quickies" is sending the wrong message? In a world of super-size everything ... you should sell big, throbbing, p-pounding stories that are long enough to satisfy. (ohdeari'mgoingdownthisroad) Not suggesting you change the stories, but don't point out their smallness.


They used to have that in the title, but I dropped it since I noticed it was significantly effecting the later ones in the series since people (I guess) assumed they were part of a linked series, when in reality they're mostly standalone. I suppose I could definitely stand to drop that subtitle entirely.


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## LilianaHart (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree with previous posters, but I also have to say it could be personal preference. Women are the majority of buyers of erotica (by a lot), and as a woman, I don't ever read erotica that's written by a man. I've tried it, and I find they miss the mark of what I'm looking for. I'm not saying that about yours specifically, but it could be more of a branding issue like that. Maybe write under a more erotica-type name that's female? Also, you gotta spice those covers up. They've got to stand out among some really great erotica covers.


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## MegSilver (Feb 26, 2012)

Under the "suggestion you probably don't want to hear" column is...

Stop yourself. Put some thought into marketing, develop new stuff, write it, and get it out there. 

(I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain why.)


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> It's actually something I have a bit of trouble with. I tend to have really short blurbs, mainly because I try to make them fit inside the product description window without it needing to be expanded. This may not be a great idea though.


Entice people. Tease them. Get them to click that little thingy to make the whole description appear.

Also, don't kill me, but, maybe, just maybe... edit? There are a couple spots at the beginning of _Good Vibrations_ where you've past-tensed things that IMO really should be present-tense, and a couple of bits of Aussie grammar that are going to look awkward to the rest of the English-speaking world. ("...the day he came over my parent's place after classes..." being the most egregious.)


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## mckat (May 4, 2012)

[Deleted because I disagree with the new terms of service.]


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

George Berger said:


> Entice people. Tease them. Get them to click that little thingy to make the whole description appear. ...


Heehee! That's not a bad point though. Design the blurbs themselves keeping in mind where the "above the fold" line is.

I think "Alex" could be a girls' name. If people are thinking the author is a dude, and that truly is turning them off (I don't know), you could go with Alexa. Sex change!

Overall, the point seems to be you're too tasteful, David. Just too darn lovely and tasteful. Make something you're too embarrassed to have in your KB profile and use a black rectangle instead (NOT THAT THERE'S anything wrong with the sexy-sexy covers we see in here, but if having them under your own name is concerning you, and you don't want us to be thinking about spanking pink bottoms in Lacunaverse, maybe separate yourself a bit more.)


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

George Berger said:


> Also, don't kill me, but, maybe, just maybe... edit? There are a couple spots at the beginning of _Good Vibrations_ where you've past-tensed things that IMO really should be present-tense, and a couple of bits of Aussie grammar that are going to look awkward to the rest of the English-speaking world. ("...the day he came over my parent's place after classes..." being the most egregious.)


Consider that sentence rewritten as soon as I get home! To me it reads perfectly fine. How would Americans write that?

If you think it's worth the time, I'll definitely give them all a full rewrite pass. I'm not a big fan of going back and fixing up stuff (as opposed to pressing on with new work) since, while it's true my writing has gotten a lot better and those shorts were written way back in the dark days of January when there was barely any electricity and people ate each other to survive, I might as well use that skill to write something new.

I suppose the question I'm asking is, "Do you think it's worth the effort to give it a full edit, or is it better to just give it a quick once-over and write something else?".


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

dalya said:


> I think "Alex" could be a girls' name. If people are thinking the author is a dude, and that truly is turning them off (I don't know), you could go with Alexa. Sex change!


My neighbour as a kid was a girl called Alex.  For ages and ages I just assumed it was a girl's name. Same as "Jackie".



dalya said:


> Overall, the point seems to be you're too tasteful, David. Just too darn lovely and tasteful. Make something you're too embarrassed to have in your KB profile and use a black rectangle instead (NOT THAT THERE'S anything wrong with the sexy-sexy covers we see in here, but if having them under your own name is concerning you, and you don't want us to be thinking about spanking pink bottoms in Lacunaverse, maybe separate yourself a bit more.)


I think that is the general feeling, too. That it's just too tame and therefore committing the greatest sin to ever exist in writing... being boring.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Wel, yeah, it should be parents' for one, unless she has only one parent.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

I don't necessarily agree with all of the suggestions made but I'll tell you one thing, take it out of select, like stat. Erotica sells very, very well over on B&N, and a lot of those readers will search for books on Amazon because the interface is better, figure out what they want to buy and will go over to B&N to get it. If your title isn't there to be found you're missing out, by a lot. I have 15 erotica titles and regularly make about $1k on B&N, why miss out on that boat?

And I agree about the possibility you being a man is a problem. Maybe change your name on those book to a first initial and your last name? I wouldn't suggest posing as a woman, but if your name could go either way, it may make women feel better about buying it. Mind you, I haven't had a chance to read your samples so take that with a grain of salt.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

ShaunaG said:


> And I agree about the possibility you being a man is a problem.


I know this is completely cruel, to quote this out of context, but I find this sentence on its own so amusing.   Don't worry, we love you David! It is okay that you are a man. 

@ Shauna that's AMAZING about your Barnes & Noble sales! Wow! Good on you.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

ShaunaG said:


> I don't necessarily agree with all of the suggestions made but I'll tell you one thing, take it out of select, like stat. Erotica sells very, very well over on B&N, and a lot of those readers will search for books on Amazon because the interface is better, figure out what they want to buy and will go over to B&N to get it. If your title isn't there to be found you're missing out, by a lot. I have 15 erotica titles and regularly make about $1k on B&N, why miss out on that boat?


I think this is good advice. My Select term expires in the beginning of August for the shorts, and I just unenrolled them all.

I think the plan of action is to do the following:

- Fix the covers, giving each a unique stock art piece with the same theme.
- Unenroll from Select.
- Give them all a full editing pass.
- Change the author name to A. Knight.
- Distribute through Smashwords to B&N.
- Price match #1 to free.
- Don't do any more stuff with that theme, instead try something different. Try to find a niche.

Thoughts?


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

dalya said:


> I know this is completely cruel, to quote this out of context, but I find this sentence on its own so amusing.   Don't worry, we love you David! It is okay that you are a man.


Am I a man? Yes. Technically, if only in a legal sense, yes I am.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

dalya said:


> I know this is completely cruel, to quote this out of context, but I find this sentence on its own so amusing.   Don't worry, we love you David! It is okay that you are a man.
> 
> @ Shauna that's AMAZING about your Barnes & Noble sales! Wow! Good on you.


Lol, thanks!

Yeah, don't take that the wrong way David, it's not a slight against you. J.K. Rowling went with "J.K." because she didn't think people would buy her books with a woman's name on it. Food for thought.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Consider that sentence rewritten as soon as I get home! To me it reads perfectly fine. How would Americans write that?


"...the day he came over *to* my parent's place..."

It's a little thing, but it's jarring. I read a lot of non-American writing, but suspect a lot of people are going to see that as a typo. (Is JFK College supposed to be in the states? Is Sally supposed to be American? She doesn't sound like one, IMO...) Also, in this instance it's particularly bad, because I honestly spent about ten seconds wondering whether it should be taken literally, with "come over" read as synonymous with "come on". 



> I suppose the question I'm asking is, "Do you think it's worth the effort to give it a full edit, or is it better to just give it a quick once-over and write something else?".


I'm not really an expert on erotica marketing, and I'm somewhat ill-qualified to judge the titillatory value of these particular stories, but I'd probably give it a quick once-over, work on the blurb some, and write something else.

You're an Aussie. You live in a country of open-minded perverts whose rich and storied language is nigh-impenetrable to foreigners. Use that to your advantage!

_"In America, a Sloppy Joe is some sort of sandwich, I think. In most of Australia, it's a thin nylon jacket, and everyone has one. Here at Bondi Polytechnic, however, there is but a single Sloppy Joe to serve some five-hundred students - and he's a six-foot blond-haired, blue-eyed surfer who can charm the knickers off a fish and drink a cow under the table. He's the source of at least five urban legends - and two local ordinances. From the first day of freshman orientation, everyone warned me about him. Too bad I've never been too keen on doing what I'm told, huh?"_


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

ShaunaG said:


> Yeah, don't take that the wrong way David, it's not a slight against you. J.K. Rowling went with "J.K." because she didn't think people would buy her books with a woman's name on it. Food for thought.


It's quite okay. 

I have another four shorts nearly ready to go, so I'm thinking I might test these in Smashwords/B&N for a bit, see how they go. When the others fall out of Select I'll put them through the meat grinder too.

I do have a question though. The links in the back to other books... should those links point to Amazon, or somewhere else?


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

David Adams said:


> I think this is good advice. My Select term expires in the beginning of August for the shorts, and I just unenrolled them all.
> 
> I think the plan of action is to do the following:
> 
> ...


This is a good plan. I have kept the 1st title in my novella series on perma-free and regularly have one of my short stories free for short amount of time. Also, as I complete a certain number of titles I offer omnibus editions. Oh and on my novellas, at the end of the 1st I have a sneak peak into #2 so they'll go get it.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

David Adams said:


> I do have a question though. The links in the back to other books... should those links point to Amazon, or somewhere else?


If you have the patience and the inclination, you can put in links to each site it's available on. I prefer the "preview" option. I just put in the first few pages of next in the series, that should do it - but if your's are very short that probably wont work too well for you.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Sounds like a plan.  Although I have to say that my first book is on B&N and has sold a total of 5 copies there since 1/1/12.  Compared to 40 copies on Amazon.  And it didn't really start to catch Amazon sales until I was able to put it's partner into Select and use the one to promote the other.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

George Berger said:


> "...the day he came over *to* my parent's place..."
> 
> It's a little thing, but it's jarring. I read a lot of non-American writing, but suspect a lot of people are going to see that as a typo. (Is JFK College supposed to be in the states? Is Sally supposed to be American? She doesn't sound like one, IMO...) Also, in this instance it's particularly bad, because I honestly spent about ten seconds wondering whether it should be taken literally, with "come over" read as synonymous with "come on".
> 
> ...


Honestly this is good advice.

As part of the rewrite I'm thinking of changing the setting. It's obvious I can't write a convincing American without outside help, which is fine. Hollywood's idea of what an Australian sounds and speaks like is... hilarious. Apparently it's quite common for Australian born and raised actors to be told their accents "sound fake".

Better to just make them all Australian sexual deviants sexually expressive young women who're Australian.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

To the OP:

None of those titles/blurbs works for me.  At all.  The titles sound like they could just as easily go with a sci-fi short.  And the blurbs tell me nothing.  People buy erotica to fulfill a fantasy.  So they should know exactly what fantasy they're buying.

I would suggest turning off the adult filters on Smashwords and then just flipping through the first few pages of recently published.  There's always a few eroticas.  Which ones, for lack of a better phrase, turn you on?  Mimic that author's style.


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Better to just make them all Australian sexual deviants sexually expressive young women who're Australian.


American women do love a good Aussie accent, yeah, we can't hear it, but if you make them Australian that might help with "fulfilling a fantasy".


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

ShaunaG said:


> I don't necessarily agree with all of the suggestions made but I'll tell you one thing, take it out of select, like stat. Erotica sells very, very well over on B&N, and a lot of those readers will search for books on Amazon because the interface is better, figure out what they want to buy and will go over to B&N to get it. If your title isn't there to be found you're missing out, by a lot. I have 15 erotica titles and regularly make about $1k on B&N, why miss out on that boat?


OmniLit/AllRomance ebooks is another good market for erotica and erotic romance. There are also some smaller e-tailers specializing in erotica, but I couldn't give you names at the moment, since it's not really my genre.

But for erotica, Select is not a good choice, because the free days are not as effective as with other genres and there are strong markets outside Amazon.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

David Adams said:


> So yeah, as I mentioned in another thread while my sci-fi is steaming along nicely in recent months I've had a little trouble pushing my erotica shorts. It hasn't been helped by me burning through all my Select free days in the first month, but yeah... *a lot of writers just say "build erotica and they will come"*, but I've obviously missed some vital step.


[Disclaimer: I could be completely wrong]

I'm not sure if you're trying to be coy here (where I've bolded) but it seems that the reason that you have written erotica shorts is strictly to cash in. If that is the case then I would think that your heart's not in it and (I may be superstitious or this may be some mumbo-jumbo) that is why they aren't selling. I firmly believe that we do our best work when we do something we love and when we give it our all. This is true in athletics (you can always tell when a superstar athlete's heart is no longer in the game), music (you can always tell when a musician makes an album just like the last one and it's terrible because what they really want to do is something else), acting (we've all seen great actors phone in their performance when they know the movie is going down), and I believe it is true in writing. And I think your case proves the point. Your sci-fi (your true love) is selling well and your erotica (your one night stand) is unfulfilling. As a writer _and_ publisher your "heart being in it" not only affects the words on the page, but also the effort put in to the cover, blurb, marketing strategy, and general dealings with the book(s)

That's not to say that you didn't put all of your energy into writing and editing. Or that you haven't spent time designing and marketing (your covers look professional, if a little flaccid). What I'm saying is that there is some sort of subconscious or metaphysical thing out there that marks the work that we do when our heart isn't in it. My thoughts in conclusion focus on work that you want to do because you want to do it.*

*Doesn't mean that you're guaranteed success if your heart is in it, and it doesn't mean that the occasional phoned-in fluke can't be successful.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll definitely give OmniLit/AllRomance a shot too.

And Alain, I'll consider redoing the titles too. It'll basically be a partial rewrite. I'll try to be a bit more... bold... with the titles and more expansive with the blurbs.

One last question, is the collection worth keeping with the rest of the shorts at $2.99, or should I just scrap it along with the Quickies! branding?


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## GUTMAN (Dec 22, 2011)

David:

I agree 1,000% on the name thing.  Get into your feminine side, or at least a neutral name.

And if you want a good look at some high class erotica language read Andre's work.  I know you're going for another vibe, but she knows her way around an arousing adjective.  I'd like to be her when I grow up. If erotica is mostly for women, I gotta tell you her stuff turns this man on.     (Ahem.  Too much information....) Beautifully written.

Good luck, mate.  And thanks for posting this--I'm really interested in hearing the advice from the experts.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Honestly this is good advice.
> 
> As part of the rewrite I'm thinking of changing the setting. It's obvious I can't write a convincing American without outside help, which is fine. Hollywood's idea of what an Australian sounds and speaks like is... hilarious. Apparently it's quite common for Australian born and raised actors to be told their accents "sound fake".
> 
> Better to just make them all Australian sexual deviants sexually expressive young women who're Australian.


Or....

You could take an Aussie and send her/him to school in the US. then you get the exotic foreigner thing (I don't know anyone that wouldn't want to hook up with an Aussie), you can keep the voice of the book natural to you, and you can set it in a location (U.S.) familiar to (what I'm assuming are) the bulk of your readers.


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## AmberC (Mar 28, 2012)

I think the title alone "quickies" might be a big part of the problem. Women buy erotica. I think most women are turned off by the term "quickie".


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> I'm not sure if you're trying to be coy here (where I've bolded) but it seems that the reason that you have written erotica shorts is strictly to cash in. If that is the case then I would think that your heart's not in it and (I may be superstitious or this may be some mumbo-jumbo) that is why they aren't selling. I firmly believe that we do our best work when we do something we love and when we give it our all. This is true in athletics (you can always tell when a superstar athlete's heart is no longer in the game), music (you can always tell when a musician makes an album just like the last one and it's terrible because what they really want to do is something else), acting (we've all seen great actors phone in their performance when they know the movie is going down), and I believe it is true in writing. And I think your case proves the point. Your sci-fi (your true love) is selling well and your erotica (your one night stand) is unfulfilling. As a writer _and_ publisher your "heart being in it" not only affects the words on the page, but also the effort put in to the cover, blurb, marketing strategy, and general dealings with the book(s)


Actually, dark confessions time, but this is pretty much spot on.

I wrote these shorts right after I published _Lacuna _because early sales of that book were quite bad. I guess I was looking for something to boost the numbers a little, and while my sci-fi was selling poorly it seemed like a good idea... but now the sci-fi is going guns (compared to my humble expectations), while the erotica has actually gotten worse sales wise.

I like writing erotica, but to be brutally honest, it was something I did with my partner at the time and it was a fun activity we could do together. They're dedicated to her. Some of the inspiration was drawn from our relationship and some from my wild days at college. We split after five years together in April, which is also when I stopped writing it (I was doing two shorts a month beforehand). I'd be lying if I said that her departure had nothing to do with that decision and it's only now that I can actually consider writing the genre again.

I like to think that confronting these issues is the best way of handling them rather than letting them fester, so even if the next four shorts sell bupkis it's important for me that I get them out... but I'm under no illusion that erotica always was, and remains, something fun I like to do when mood strikes... but ultimately it's not my passion. I might joke about writing sci-fi novels to fund my dream of being an erotica short writer but, yeah.

I dunno. If it's just that I'm no good at it, I can accept that. I'm no good at a lot of things and okay at some things. If the general feeling is that I should hang up my hat on this genre and focus on something else, there's no shame about that... but I would like to give B&N a shot. Even if price matching is worse than having my head drilled in.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> (I don't know anyone that wouldn't want to hook up with an Aussie)


And that's why I married my hubby  Well, that and I threw up for 12 hours on our first date and he still asked me to marry him (but that's another story).


----------



## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

AndreSanThomas said:


> And that's why I married my hubby  Well, that and I threw up for 12 hours on our first date and he still asked me to marry him (but that's another story).


I should move to the US where my sexy Australian-ness can make up for my crippling personality flaws and gross, malformed physical form!


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

David Adams said:


> They're dedicated to her.


Perhaps, but even the dedication put me off.


----------



## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Hollywood's idea of what an Australian sounds and speaks like is... hilarious. Apparently it's quite common for Australian born and raised actors to be told their accents "sound fake".


Could be. My principal exposure to Australian accents has been all five seasons of Sea Patrol, the first two seasons of Rescue:Special Ops, one of the later seasons of Blue Heelers, and a few episodes of All Saints, and I wouldn't say the accents are "fake" or difficult to understand, or anything. It's the actual vocabulary that occasionally leaves me scratching my head, or reaching for Google. (Though to be fair, a cop show and a military show, with their specialist jargon, didn't really help matters... and someone told me to watch All Saints because I liked Scrubs, so, um, yeah...)

Like someone else said, you can certainly make it about the sexual misadventures of a foreign-exchange student in the land of sin, taxes, and fried foods, if you like. Everyone thinks they love an accent, or that they want to date an exotic foreigner, y'know? Feed that fantasy...

_--George, I worked for a while with someone from Holland, who got drunk at a party and tried to woo me... in Dutch. Beautiful language, Dutch. Musical, melodious, a bit like German. They said - apparently - some quite naughtily suggestive things. I was left with the impression they wanted to carve out my heart and eat it. Language barriers are not particularly erotic, I'm afraid..._


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> And that's why I married my hubby  Well, that and I threw up for 12 hours on our first date and he still asked me to marry him (but that's another story).


I had *absolutely* no idea that you are a woman.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

NathanWrann said:


> I had *absolutely* no idea that you are a woman.


How does having a husband make someone a woman? 

(I tease, I tease. A little...)


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

George Berger said:


> How does having a husband make someone a woman?


I'm from Canada. It's a legitimate question up here


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## Iwritelotsofbooks (Nov 17, 2010)

I agree with a number of the points here.  The first being that my erotica pen name sells better on B&N than Amazon.  I have had zero luck with erotica with select.  Most of my amazon erotica sales I believe came from smashwords to b&n to amazon price matched free of one of the shorts leading to readers checking out the rest of the titles.  

Another thing is your erotica takes place in college.  Most erotica readers are women and although I have no scientific data on this, above thirty.  Just my experience, but my hunky doctor, soldier, cop, and fireman shorts.  Hope this helps.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

This might be a stupid question, but how much erotica have you read?


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## mckat (May 4, 2012)

[Deleted because I disagree with the new terms of service.]


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

George Berger said:


> How does having a husband make someone a woman?
> 
> (I tease, I tease. A little...)


First thought: She's a woman?
Second thought: Oh, maybe not.
Third thought: I better go to the blog linked in her sig and conduct some due diligence before I post about my previously incorrect assumption.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> I had *absolutely* no idea that you are a woman.


Well I am originally from San Francisco so hubby did demand to see my birth certificate just to check, but yes, two children later, we're pretty sure 

I do admit that Andre' is a rather unusual female name. That seems to have worked in my favor with my writing so far, however.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Perhaps, but even the dedication put me off.


Well... given what happened I'm happy to purge the dedication with fire.

Especially since it's no longer relevant...


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> Perhaps, but even the dedication put me off.


This made me go look at the "look inside" option on your Quickies book. I totally agree with Krista. Also, I'm sorry, but your MC talking to the audience? No. Not good. Yes, this works for some, but your MC's voice put me off. I write in first person, so yes, my MC is "telling the story" but she's never talking to the reader with comments such as, "Anyway, hi. This is the story of how I lost my virginity..." Erotica is just like any other genre, start your story where the action starts. That is not to say "where the sex starts", but if this is the story of a girl losing her virginity on her 18th birthday (btw, that came across a little cliche, like you're making sure she's legal for the story but young enough to titillate) then the story starts on that night and just go with it.

Not to promote myself, I swear, but the first in my novella series is perma-free on Amazon and B&N, here is the Amazon link:  [URL=http://www.amazon.com/Elfbitten-Taryn-Malloy-Fantasy-ebook/dp/B006HWXJU8/ref=sr_1_3]http://www.amazon.com/Elfbitten-Taryn-Malloy-Fantasy-ebook/dp/B006HWXJU8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1341196687&sr=8-3&keywords=leila+bryce+sin[/url] (sorry I don't know the nifty trick to get just the words hyperlinked). Feel free to give it a read and see how I introduce my MC through a first person POV - it's her first night out after a horrible breakup with her Fiance. It's a simple enough plot for the first title, which I was able to build on in the next titles.

The thing is, everyone saying that the majority of erotic readers are women in and around 30 is right and a girl who sounds ditsy and promiscuous for the sake of it, is a turn off. You can write erotica for men, it's a smaller audience but if you want to write for men then your voice can be different. Things to think about.

Edit to add: maybe you need to think about some female beta readers if you have anyone you're comfortable with reading it. They can tell you a lot of the things we're telling you before you publish.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Krista D. Ball said:


> This might be a stupid question, but how much erotica have you read?


Will you hang me if I say not much? I think... exactly two pieces.

I know how that sounds.


----------



## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

George Berger said:


> _"In America, a Sloppy Joe is some sort of sandwich, I think. In most of Australia, it's a thin nylon jacket, and everyone has one. Here at Bondi Polytechnic, however, there is but a single Sloppy Joe to serve some five-hundred students - and he's a six-foot blond-haired, blue-eyed surfer who can charm the knickers off a fish and drink a cow under the table. He's the source of at least five urban legends - and two local ordinances. From the first day of freshman orientation, everyone warned me about him. Too bad I've never been too keen on doing what I'm told, huh?"_


George, if the goat thing ever stops working for you, I think you've found your second calling!


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

ShaunaG said:


> but if this is the story of a girl losing her virginity on her 18th birthday (btw, that came across a little cliche, like you're making sure she's legal for the story but young enough to titillate) then the story starts on that night and just go with it.


You're reading the second rewrite of that story. The first draft was set in high school and got blocked because I didn't state their ages, even though I'd implicitly assumed they were 18 and written that way. I was a lot more careful with the second one. Probably a bit too careful...



ShaunaG said:


> Not to promote myself, I swear, but the first in my novella series is perma-free on Amazon and B&N, here is the Amazon link:  [URL=http://www.amazon.com/Elfbitten-Taryn-Malloy-Fantasy-ebook/dp/B006HWXJU8/ref=sr_1_3]http://www.amazon.com/Elfbitten-Taryn-Malloy-Fantasy-ebook/dp/B006HWXJU8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1341196687&sr=8-3&keywords=leila+bryce+sin[/url] (sorry I don't know the nifty trick to get just the words hyperlinked). Feel free to give it a read and see how I introduce my MC through a first person POV - it's her first night out after a horrible breakup with her Fiance. It's a simple enough plot for the first title, which I was able to build on in the next titles.


I'll check it out! Tonight. For... research purposes. Yes.

For sure.

I'm happy writing erotica and saying I do, but I'm not really comfortable seeking out female beta readers at this stage. I have two beta readers who are both male which is probably unsurprising given the feedback so far.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> First thought: She's a woman?
> Second thought: Oh, maybe not.
> Third thought: I better go to the blog linked in her sig and conduct some due diligence before I post about my previously incorrect assumption.


After all we've been to each other. And still, you just don't know me.


----------



## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

David Adams said:


> You're reading the second rewrite of that story. The first draft was set in high school and got blocked because I didn't state their ages, even though I'd implicitly assumed they were 18 and written that way. I was a lot more careful with the second one. Probably a bit too careful...
> 
> I'll check it out! Tonight. For... research purposes. Yes.
> 
> ...


Yes, much too careful, I think. It is a balancing act with the mods.

Here's my suggestion to get your voice right, to understand what readers want, do your _research_. There are plenty of erotica titles that are free, go download a bunch and read. Many are short enough. The one I linked to is about 21k words, so not short, but you can start to see what's good, what's sophomoric, what's gross. And really reading a lot of it will inspire you, not just in the funny innuendo way. And check out the reviews, find out what people didn't like, see if you have the same problems in your stories.

Don't feel bad for writing for the money. I started writing erotica for the money too, yes, I admit it! Put the pitchforks away! But I found I really enjoyed it, too, so I like writing it. I think it comes across in the writing. I've had women thank me for some of the stories, we all know why. You do need to enjoy writing them. Just treat them with the same care as you treat your "regular" titles.

My second suggestion, get over yourself and get some female betas. You can advertise for them on these boards that way it's not anyone you actually know and have to look in the eye later. My editor for my novellas is a woman and asked for her impression of the stories as a beta before editing and I know her in real life. You just gotta get over it, dude. You want to know why a story doesn't work before it goes up for sale, right?


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

ShaunaG said:


> Yes, much too careful, I think. It is a balancing act with the mods.
> 
> Here's my suggestion to get your voice right, to understand what readers want, do your _research_. There are plenty of erotica titles that are free, go download a bunch and read. Many are short enough. The one I linked to is about 21k words, so not short, but you can start to see what's good, what's sophomoric, what's gross. And really reading a lot of it will inspire you, not just in the funny innuendo way. And check out the reviews, find out what people didn't like, see if you have the same problems in your stories.
> 
> ...


Yeah, this is good advice. I'm not sure I can pluck up the courage regarding beta readers, but I know for sure that I'll have to do a bit more research and see what I can learn. I'll see what I can do, post research, introspection, navel gazing and Fallout: New Vegas to fix them up, just do my best and follow the plan above. If they turn out to be unsalvagable, well, there's always a new pen name and just write something else.


----------



## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Also, I can say is that I'm betting the farm on _Artisan Head in Five Minutes A Day_! With a title like that I can't go wrong!


----------



## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> After all we've been to each other. And still, you just don't know me.


I know! I blame the anonymity of the internets. And I've been scared to do more than ogle your sig, (like visit your blog) lest my wife suddenly appear over my shoulder.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

http://erotica-readers.com/

This is the link to the Erotica Readers and Writers Association. Join their mailing lists and you can submit short stories and chapters of your longer works for critique. It's a very broad group of writers of all kinds of erotica, mostly US based but with lots of Aussies and Brits too. Many are published, some self, some traditional, some aspiring, some just like to read. There are a number of publishers that post there, calls for submission are routinely posted, all in all a great erotica resource.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

I think you definitely should get some female readers, and if you're not comfortable with that, maybe you're not comfortable with the genre.

My series sees a fair bit of M/M sex, and I had a friend of mine, who is gay, read it specifically for those issues. His advice, although a little explicit at times *blush* was very useful.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

David Adams said:


> Will you hang me if I say not much? I think... exactly two pieces.
> 
> I know how that sounds.


You might reading some might help. After all, you want to make money off this. That's fair. I mean, I wrote Scoundrel on a Twitter dare for pity's sake; I won't judge. If you are looking for some well-written erotica, I'm sure we can all suggest some and you can get a little more idea of how to structure your own.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

AndreSanThomas said:


> http://erotica-readers.com/
> 
> This is the link to the Erotica Readers and Writers Association. Join their mailing lists and you can submit short stories and chapters of your longer works for critique. It's a very broad group of writers of all kinds of erotica, mostly US based but with lots of Aussies and Brits too. Many are published, some self, some traditional, some aspiring, some just like to read. There are a number of publishers that post there, calls for submission are routinely posted, all in all a great erotica resource.


I'll use that! Awesome link, thanks!


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

Krista D. Ball said:


> If you are looking for some well-written erotica, I'm sure we can all suggest some and you can get a little more idea of how to structure your own.


Also, the inverse: read bad erotica. Not the painfully bad stuff I've linked to in the past (like the story with "fastidious humping"...), and not stuff that's bad in a good way - the stuff that's just... bad. USENET/Google Groups has acres of the stuff. Go find alt.sex.stories.moderated, and browse. Or search for your favorite fetishes. Read the bad stuff. Think about why it was bad. Then learn from others' mistakes. It's much more fun than learning from your own.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

George Berger said:


> Also, the inverse: read bad erotica. Not the painfully bad stuff I've linked to in the past (like the story with "fastidious humping"...), and not stuff that's bad in a good way - the stuff that's just... bad. USENET/Google Groups has acres of the stuff. Go find alt.sex.stories.moderated, and browse. Or search for your favorite fetishes. Read the bad stuff. Think about why it was bad. Then learn from others' mistakes. It's much more fun than learning from your own.


See, they say you only learn from making mistakes. That's why I'm a genius because I


Spoiler



LOL!


 up everything I do.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Literotica.com is a huge mix of good and bad and everything in between.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> See, they say you only learn from making mistakes. That's why I'm a genius because I
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


No, seriously. Read the good, the bad, and the awful. If you just read the good stuff, it's easy to fixate on little things that you really liked, perhaps for the wrong reasons. ("Wow, that was seriously hot. I should write about promiscuous female sanitation engineers, too!") If you read the bad stuff, it's easier to concentrate on the stylistic and mechanical flaws without being, well, distracted by the sexy, as it were. ("That was curiously unsatisfying. It felt hurried, in the wrong way, there was zero foreplay, the logic of the whole encounter was never explained... and _Dammit, I said not all over my dress, you tit, that's pure silk!_ is a truly, truly horrible way to end a story.")


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Dammit, I said not all over my dress, you tit, that's pure silk! 

You should have listed that as a spoiler.  Now I have to start over on my WIP!


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who gave advice. I'm always looking for ways to improve at any part of my writing, so... yeah. Thanks a bunch.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

David,

I only scanned this thread, so if I repeat, sorry.

The biggest problems obvious at a glance are your titles and blurbs. Quickies does imply sex to me, as someone who self-publishes erotica, but it might not to everyone. And Good Vibrations is the title of a Beach Boys song, so sex might not be instant in people's minds, either. Frailty I & II and All's Fair are equally non-erotic sounding. The same-but-different color covers aren't a terrible image, but I'd give each one its own unique cover.

_Hi, I'm Sally! I'm 18 and I'm a college student in my first year. Our official collage (college) motto is "Strength through Diversity."_

That entire opening isn't even mildly erotic, and could be the lead-in to a religious novel or a teen angst story, right? You don't want to do that. You don't have to use foul language, name genitals or get raunchy, but it needs to at least sound sexy.

Use your title real estate to help you when people search for erotica, too Instead of Good Vibrations (Quickies!) Why not give it a more descriptive name. Sally's Sex Education would be a better title. Frailty I coudl become Kate's Sex Tease, Frailty II could be Kate's Gangbang or Group Sex for Kate, All's Fair would probably sell better as Quinn Gets Herself Off, all with Erotic College Girl Adventures as your subtitle or something instead of Quickies. In this way, someone searching for certain things has a better chance of finding your stories. The titles are descriptive and much more provocative.

I know some erotica writers would rather hold their fingers over a flame than title stories in that way. That's fine. But since you did say you wrote these for their earning potential, this is really what you want to do. And those titles are mild compared to some

Also, since these are all barely legal girls, All Romance is probably out. They don't like stories where 18 and 19-year-old girls have sex, and will generally remove them, sometimes terminating the account over it. If you don't have an account there, they probably won't let you have one based on these stories. If you have an account, you might be risking it by pissing off the morality standard-bearers there who act as if a story about an 18-year-old having sex is aimed at an audience of child molesters. (Unless it's erom.) But I digress.

Good luck with your stories!


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## HezBa (Jan 24, 2012)

If you want to read more erotica, check out Oysters and Chocolate. It's a website with tons of it and it's awesome, with every sort of flavour of erotica you could want 
http://www.oystersandchocolate.com/Home.aspx


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

shelleyo1 said:


> David,
> 
> I only scanned this thread, so if I repeat, sorry.
> 
> ...


Great advice, thanks! I'll follow it when I'm rewriting. 

Okay, one last question. If I'm distributing via Smashwords (which I have to, to reach B&N) what channels should I go with? Opt out of Amazon, obviously, but are there any I should specifically avoid for any reason?


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## BEAST (Mar 31, 2012)

Hey David, lots of good advice here but I'm going to add my two cents. Yes, you have to find a niche. I write gay black erotica. Can't zero in on a demographic more than that. I also find places to promote my work. I find groups on facebook where folks who might read my work. I also post my samples on free erotica sites, only sites that allow me to link my website of course.

And, while you may not agree, your titles may be over priced. I say this not just from personal experience but casual observation. I am intent on seeing how other folks who write erotica do it. Amazon allows you search through the erotica authors. I checked out ALL of the author listed there that had 8 or more titles up. I noticed that those with titles with between 3K and 8k words for 2.99 didn't sell as well. Most had rankings in the 400K range. It was a snapshot but still helpful.

Readers of erotica are saavy bc they consume it like crazy. I think even they would flinch at paying three dollar for such a short story. But yea, some get away with it. Check out Selena Kitt, some readers complain about the length of her stories and the price.

I put anything at 15K and up at 2.99. I have two erotica collections with five 3k stories. In June I sold 78 copies of Freshman Freaks on Amazon and 10 copies on B&N at the 2.99 price point. Trade Banging sold 41 copies at 2.99

Maybe reevaluate your prices??


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

After the very valid points raised in this thread a price drop for these works is definitely something I'd consider.


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## tsharp (Jul 14, 2011)

Back to the female/ambigious author name thing to attract female readers - if you use an initial or something to not denote the gender of the writer, but then all your stories are from a male perspective, surely you've already given the game away?

I suppose maybe if you were writing shorts you could use both male and female MCs, that would keep people guessing maybe...


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## ShaunaG (Jun 16, 2011)

tsharp said:


> Back to the female/ambigious author name thing to attract female readers - if you use an initial or something to not denote the gender of the writer, but then all your stories are from a male perspective, surely you've already given the game away?
> 
> I suppose maybe if you were writing shorts you could use both male and female MCs, that would keep people guessing maybe...


Yep, that's why part of my advice was to get to reading so he can see what was wrong with his MC's voice and if he couldn't work on that or get it right then he needed to consider writing for men. Smaller market but it's out there and women will read that too because it'll sound more genuine than "trying to sound like a woman".


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## M.G.Morgan (Sep 1, 2011)

Hi David, sorry to hear about your sales. I have some theories and thoughts on why its not selling but that would be something to discuss privately. However, some other things I've noticed through writing erotica I'll share here.

People who have said to find a niche in erotica are dead on the money. Erotica is full of niches. Experiment with a few and find one you fit into. The only issue in this is that you need to actually enjoy writing erotica. By all means treat it like a business but not as a cash cow. Writers of erotica who have treated it as such tend not to have a whole lot of success.

Erotica is a volume game (unless you have a runaway success, which is hard to get but not impossible). Look at all the erotica that is published everyday and every week. If you are only publishing a story once in a blue moon then you're not going to make money. I'm not talking about those who have already put the hard work in and built their readership. If you want name recognition and to build your name then you need to be putting out a short at least once a week. Many will not agree with this. But to get your name in front of people the best way to do it is by constantly releasing. Even one every two weeks is okish... Successful erotica writers are putting out 4+ stories a month. Erotica readers are voracious they want more and if they like you then you're onto a winner if you have a large backlist. Note: I am not talking here about those who write erotica novels that is a different area. I am strictly talking short erotic fiction. I am also not saying that you put out a piece of rubbish once a week. Treat your readers with respect. They deserve a high quality product. Yes you can be human but do your absolute best to put out a quality story.

As for your pen name I don't see an issue with it. Some of the best erotica I have read is by men. Not necessarily writing for the male market either. But in order to be a really good erotica writer you have to read it. There is no escaping that one. Read it and lots of it.

Erotica is a genre that can take a much higher price point than others. I wouldn't be ok with pricing something that is 3k at 2.99. Mine tend to be in the 4.5k and up range. I charge 2.99 for them but it also is dependent on the subject matter I am writing about. Not only that but I'm making a living from my writing therefore charging 2.99 I find is a fair price. (Note: Not all of my stories are 2.99 it's a story by story decision.) I give my readers a story it's not just wham bam thank you mam.

These are just my thoughts. If you have any other questions or need any help in any way feel free to PM me.

Goodluck!

Millie


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## A_Writer_ (May 22, 2011)

In your case, David, going free probably isn't a good idea because you don't have that many titles in the genre for your 'free' readers to go and buy if they like your work. 

Likewise, do you think that dropping your prices is going to raise the level of your sales to a point that the lower royalty will be made up for by greater sales?

The rules for selling Erotica aren't the same as the rules for selling other types of fiction. Readers will pay higher prices. There are many short stories of <15k in the Amazon Erotica Top 100 selling for $2.99.

I think the best thing you could do if you want to seriously get into this genre is write and release more stories in the genre. You have some way to go to get to the volume you need.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

I saw this lovely photo today (was looking for non-nudes myself) and thought of you.

It kind of says "Australia" to me. It's naked but tasteful.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Actually, you can't get that pic on Amazon. Well, you might be able to get it through, but if it goes through, it will be relegated to the dreaded 'adult' section where your book cannot be found.  You can't have any completely bare rears.  A string thong is ok, but totally bare is a no go.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

However... you could drop your title across her rear on a banner...


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

That's what the pub did for Scoundrel. In the stock art, you can totally see her bum. However, on the cover, you can't


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2012)

Without reading through this entire thread, how have you promoted them?  The books that did well for me are the ones I promoted the most.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

I haven't read the whole thread David, but I  looked at a couple of your ER titles. First they are way over priced for what they are. 2.99 for 13 pages or 5.99? Do you know your market? Who are you writing to?

For the right book and the right er niche the prices are Ok--but yours are very general.

Many think erotica is easy, but it's not. I suggest you read a few from Selena Kitt (a master) or GiaBlue and others before you edit or write or change your name.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

All very good suggestions, and thank you for all of them. 

Dalya, I love that stock picture and I'll find a way to use it somehow. Even if I have to use the "Black bar across the middle which is also where the title goes, ho ho ho" trick.

Thanks again, guys. I really appreciate it.


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

David Adams said:


> ho ho ho


Don't you go calling that girl... nevermind.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

AndreSanThomas said:


> Don't you go calling that girl... nevermind.


A picture of a dirty, dirty hoe:


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Great.  Now the butter churn is going to be jealous.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

I think the main takeaway point of this thread for me is:

"My true calling is farming implement erotica."


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

Like we said, it's all about the niches.


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## Krista D. Ball (Mar 8, 2011)

My niche is comedy


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> However... you could drop your title across her rear on a banner...


That was what I was thinking! David has skillz, so he could put on a thong.

I don't think it's necessarily the world's best sexy cover pic. Maybe it just struck me today because it was in with other non-nude photos.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

David Adams said:


> I think the main takeaway point of this thread for me is:
> 
> "My true calling is farming implement erotica."


Rule 34.

_--George, but do try to avoid the tasteless 'rape field' jokes, there's a good chap..._


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

George Berger said:


> Rule 34.


Free Farm Porn - Total Videos 932

I'll save you the link, just in case you need research materials.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

AndreSanThomas said:


> Free Farm Porn - Total Videos 932
> 
> I'll save you the link, just in case you need research materials.


I'd be a little afraid of seeing things that I could never un-see, honestly. Like the _other_ kind of "animal husbandry", if you know what I mean.

_--George, aaaaaaaaargh, that's not the kind of 'bareback' porn I was looking for!_


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

George Berger said:


> I'd be a little afraid of seeing things that I could never un-see, honestly. Like the _other_ kind of "animal husbandry", if you know what I mean.
> 
> _--George, aaaaaaaaargh, that's not the kind of 'bareback' porn I was looking for!_


In my RPG group, one of our Paladin's name is Safeword. Her horse is Bareback (aka, riding bareback).

We have strange and awesome adventures.


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## Malia Mallory (Aug 31, 2011)

I don't know if someone already pointed this out...I went to the first link and there was a typo in the blurb. As a reader, that would have had me clicking away. I'm guessing your character is in college not collage?


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

David Adams said:


> My neighbour as a kid was a girl called Alex.  For ages and ages I just assumed it was a girl's name. Same as "Jackie".


It can definitely be a girl's nickname for Alexa, Alexis, or Alexandra, but I have a baby boy named Alex, so I can't possibly think of it as anything other than a guy's name, sorry.


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## KMatthew (Mar 21, 2012)

David Adams said:


> I should move to the US where my sexy Australian-ness can make up for my crippling personality flaws and gross, malformed physical form!


Pfft to this. I think you're absolutely adorable, and I'm sure that many other women here would agree.


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## Victoria lane &amp; R.T. Fox (Nov 10, 2009)

The title should be Five Pounds of Meat.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh god it's this thread again reminding me how bad I am at this nooooooooooooooo

On a more related note, I dropped the price down and it's been selling back at its old rate again. I'm just waiting for its Select term to run out so I can fix it up and put it over all the other markets.


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

David, might I recommend a book called _Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet_? I haven't finished it, but so far I have found it to be very useful. It is explicit advice from an erotic romance writer who really knows her stuff.


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## BarryG (Mar 30, 2012)

Well, this is a funny thread! I haven't been around these parts in a while, so it's nice to see people still having fun...

I never promoted any of my work. (Until Amazon started hiding it from the readers, _then_ I did some huffing and puffing on that ol' PR treadmill, lemme tell ya! Which is to say, I put up a "blog" and signed up here for advice and then got tired of all that crapola and stopped worrying about it. My stuff still sells, just not as much as before. I'm not a professional, and I don't have the energy to write this stuff every week like it was some kind of boring job. That wouldn't be fun at all! I write it when I feel like it.)

The result of not promoting it was sales! Erotica people are _looking_ for your stuff -- especially, I guess, stuff like mine, which is distasteful to most, but for those who like it... they _like_ it.

My stories are in the 4-5k range, mostly. I charge $3.69 for them. The omnibus (with three stories in it) is $7.69. I have one story at $2.99, and it's cheaper only because it's shorter (like 2500 words I think). My ebooks _each_ sell anywhere from 5 to 30 copies a month -- and that's with Amazon doing everything it can to hide me from the customers! I know that's beans to a lot of these other erotica writers, but to me it's my car payment and even some of my cigarettes, so I'm pleased as punch with my sales... 

Anyway, here's my advice to Mr. OP:

1) Don't worry about the writing. If _you_ like it, it's good. That's the great thing about erotica, everyone's got his (or her) own taste. No one should sass you about the writing.

2) *Get the WORDS off of the SEXINESS!* Your cover's supposedly got some sexy goings-on, but I can't see anything. All I see are a bunch of WORDS. On my covers, I try to get the words out of the way, unless I need to cover up a nipple or something. The first thing people see is that cover -- make sure it gets their hearts pumping IMMEDIATELY. Then they click on it, and...

3) Put an *excerpt* in your description. Something *steamy*. People need to know what they're getting -- is it gonna get 'em off? (Not to be impolite, but that's what they want to know.) Looking at the sample just gives them your chatty lead-in, which is fine for what it is, but sexy it ain't! Just grab a paragraph or two from one of your sex scenes and stick it in the description. (I call mine XXXcerpts, but _you_ can't because that's Barry G.'s Intellectual Property!  )

I wonder, people maybe forget sometimes that the purpose of erotica is to "get people off." Don't let anything stand in the way of that message: _My Story Will Get You Off._

*TLDR version: SEXY COVER + SEXY BLURB = SALES*

(And then, of course, if people get off from your stories, they'll buy whatever else you're selling.)


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## BarryG (Mar 30, 2012)

Oh, and I also wanna mention:

If there's anything at all "fetishy" about your stories, play it up! People have been mentioning "niches" -- I'm assuming they're talking about *kinky fetishes*. People will pay top dollar for stories involving their own personal *kinky fetishes*!

So you're writing "Barely Legal" stuff? Is that what it is? If so, then come on, let the customers know! Tell 'em your girls are 18 and randy!

Put "BARELY LEGAL" in your description. Don't be the least bit coy about it, make it clear as day what it is you're selling. There are people out there who will buy absolutely _every_ story they find that's "Barely Legal." These people won't even read the description, half of them. They just have this burning need to own every single "Barely Legal" story in the Kindle Store. These people will stream in month after month. There's an endless supply of them... for every fetish. (I'm just using "Barely Legal" as a pertinent example for Mr. OP.)

(Just make sure you're clear in the description that it IS legal! Otherwise, Amazon'll block your story.)

I also want to second and third what people have been saying about B&N. I get the same sales at B&N as I do at Amazon, sometimes better. B&N's great! And those people don't _ever_ return their purchases either! Amazon, I get some returns every month like clockwork. B&N, I've never had a return. Not one! (I think maybe B&N might be less tricky about the buy button. I have no idea since I don't own a Nook and therefore don't shop at B&N, but I know the Amazon buy button and sample button are *really* close to each other, so I'm guessing Amazon shoppers are accidentally buying stuff they only meant to sample _all the time_.)


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## Candy Nytes (Jul 21, 2012)

BarryG said:


> 1) Don't worry about the writing. If _you_ like it, it's good. That's the great thing about erotica, everyone's got his (or her) own taste. No one should sass you about the writing.


^^^ Wise man. 'Nuff said.



> 2) *Get the WORDS off of the SEXINESS!* Your cover's supposedly got some sexy goings-on, but I can't see anything. All I see are a bunch of WORDS. On my covers, I try to get the words out of the way, unless I need to cover up a nipple or something. The first thing people see is that cover -- make sure it gets their hearts pumping IMMEDIATELY. Then they click on it, and...
> 
> 3) Put an *excerpt* in your description. Something *steamy*. People need to know what they're getting -- is it gonna get 'em off? (Not to be impolite, but that's what they want to know.) Looking at the sample just gives them your chatty lead-in, which is fine for what it is, but sexy it ain't! Just grab a paragraph or two from one of your sex scenes and stick it in the description. (I call mine XXXcerpts, but _you_ can't because that's Barry G.'s Intellectual Property!  )
> 
> I wonder, people maybe forget sometimes that the purpose of erotica is to "get people off." Don't let anything stand in the way of that message: _My Story Will Get You Off._


This is all I would have said too. But especially see #1 again


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2012)

All of these erotica covers all look the same. Are you afraid to be different?


I swear the majority of you write for a dollar, not the art. So many of these covers look like cheese to me, but I guess when you're writing for cash I guess I should expect people to stick to the formula.


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## BarryG (Mar 30, 2012)

sicklove said:


> All of these erotica covers all look the same. Are you afraid to be different?
> 
> I swear the majority of you write for a dollar, not the art. So many of these covers look like cheese to me, but I guess when you're writing for cash I guess I should expect people to stick to the formula.


Ha ha! Mind if I use your avatar pic? It's *smokin'*!


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

sicklove said:


> All of these erotica covers all look the same. Are you afraid to be different?
> 
> I swear the majority of you write for a dollar, not the art. So many of these covers look like cheese to me, but I guess when you're writing for cash I guess I should expect people to stick to the formula.


HAHAHAH ! SICKLOVE! I think there's a pot-colored kettle here with your name on it.


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## MeiLinMiranda (Feb 17, 2011)

David Adams said:


> I should move to the US where my sexy Australian-ness can make up for my crippling personality flaws and gross, malformed physical form!


Yeah, but you have an adorable face and the accent makes up for a lot.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2012)

dalya said:


> HAHAHAH ! SICKLOVE! I think there's a pot-colored kettle here with your name on it.


I'm 100% original, far more than I can say about those who follow rather than lead


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2012)

BarryG said:


> Ha ha! Mind if I use your avatar pic? It's *smokin'*!


I went through a weight-gaining process to get more in tune with the character, I'm back to getting lean while I come up with the great struggle for the 2nd book


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## MaraStone (Aug 1, 2012)

Victoria Champion said:


> David, might I recommend a book called _Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet_? I haven't finished it, but so far I have found it to be very useful. It is explicit advice from an erotic romance writer who really knows her stuff.


Hi David, 
I just started publishing my erotica stories last week, as of today I have sold seventeen whole copies. So I'm not an expert, however, I second Victoria's recommendation above. For me, it has been a matter of doing a lot of reading and writing. From other forums I gather that the main ideas are:
- For every 10 stories you put out you will see an incremental increase in sales.
- Every story or set of stories you write you will be improving as a writer.
- Using keywords as much as possible without overloading the titles with them in a ridiculous manner.
- Do your own searches within the genre to see what is selling. Don't copy, but be inspired!
- Write a compelling, sexy blurb and some people add in a sample of the story in order to better hook the potential readers in.
- Sexy covers sell sexy stories!

For me, it is a matter of also being patient. I have just the four single titles plus one collection so I don't expect my visibility to be very high. But I have another 8 stories that should be ready to go this month (August). I hope to just get steadily increasing sales, maybe one day I will have a hit. Plenty of people are making a good living writing erotica, most of them have reasonably sizeable catalogues.

I guess if I get to 50 titles and I'm not making a reasonable amount from them, I might reconsider my career plan.

Good luck to you!


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

MaraStone said:


> Hi David,
> I just started publishing my erotica stories last week, as of today I have sold seventeen whole copies. So I'm not an expert, however, I second Victoria's recommendation above. For me, it has been a matter of doing a lot of reading and writing. From other forums I gather that the main ideas are:
> - For every 10 stories you put out you will see an incremental increase in sales.
> - Every story or set of stories you write you will be improving as a writer.
> ...


Thank you!  This post and BarryG's made me smile as I'm having a pretty rough day at work today (quitting in a week and a half, just a week and a half...).

Thanks guys, really appreciate it.


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## 56139 (Jan 21, 2012)

Victoria Champion said:


> David, might I recommend a book called _Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet_? I haven't finished it, but so far I have found it to be very useful. It is explicit advice from an erotic romance writer who really knows her stuff.


I bought this! I'm so NOT a sex-writing strumpet, but I had to do a few romantic/sexy scenes and this book did help me.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2012)

I wrote many of my sex scenes based on actual sex I've had, and the book cover is allllllmost ready.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

Victoria Champion said:


> David, might I recommend a book called _Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet_? I haven't finished it, but so far I have found it to be very useful. It is explicit advice from an erotic romance writer who really knows her stuff.


I picked up _Be a Sex-Writing Strumpet_ just now and when I'm ready to write more erotica I'll read it.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

sicklove said:


> I wrote many of my sex scenes based on actual sex I've had, and the book cover is allllllmost ready.


Yeah, see, I can't do that or I might as well call my erotica "I Slept With David Adams: Ten Seconds Of (meh) Pleasure, Ten Years of Regret"


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2012)

David Adams said:


> Yeah, see, I can't do that or I might as well call my erotica "I Slept With David Adams: Ten Seconds Of (meh) Pleasure, Ten Years of Regret"


I would suggest:

1. Study/watch some of the, say, top 50 rated erotica scenes EVER filmed. Top 50 film sex scenes. I'm sure if you google those you can find a list and sample video clips. Stir it together in your mind and let your fingers tap dance away on the keyboard.

2. Hire a series of prostitutes of all different kinds, request odd sex from them, perhaps play cards with one while she tells you dirty stories. Go out for McDonald's with her late at night and people watch while fooling around with her in the booth. Hire one for someone else and watch them do it, bonus points if your male friend is really overweight and lonely.

3. Check out erotica from all different cultures over the last 4000 years. Read up on sex in Rome, geisha in Japan, how the indian prostitutes live and work, everything from that to pornstars and burlesque. Find out why people think Dita Von Teese is so hot? So fake looking. Visit a foreign country and have sex in a jungle. Have sex with an ex while drunk and she's angry. Eat sorbet in a convertible car while getting a road job on the way to drop her off so you can get back to writing your book.


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## Andykay (May 10, 2012)

sicklove said:


> I would suggest:
> 
> 1. Study/watch some of the, say, top 50 rated erotica scenes EVER filmed. Top 50 film sex scenes. I'm sure if you google those you can find a list and sample video clips. Stir it together in your mind and let your fingers tap dance away on the keyboard.
> 
> ...


You should definitely do all these things David. In fact I can't see how you can write erotica without them quite frankly. I do all this stuff every few weeks, just to stay sharp.


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## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

Right away, the blurbs are not suggestive enough and not long enough. You want to give a hint about the plot, draw people in to what's going to go on. Like is the "Good Vibrations" book about sex toys? There's no real hint about what's in it.  

Also, you have two books with someone disabled and that should be highly marketable, but you want to play it up in the blurb. Find some targeted keywords--try the literotica tag screen--and tag the story and join the tagging thread here--about 1/2 the people won't tag erotica even though you tag their stuff, but with a fetish even a few good tags can really push your search results ranking. B&N and Kobo have terrible searches, so I usually add something to the title because that's the only thing that seems to matter. 

The other thing about erotica is its about constant production. Once you stop releasing stuff, like I've done in the past couple of months, sales just drop into an abyss. The bought also bought and also by this author stuff is what really markets stuff. I would raise the price of your stories to $2.99 and the bundle to $4.99 or $5.99. 

Also, when you are free of Select, All Romance cracked down significantly on erotica during the PayPal debacle. In particularly, they have a huge petunia in their posterior about "barely legal" stories. Saying they're in college isn't enough. If they're in school, they assume the worse and come at you with the banstick. They also want erotica only in the erotica category where it won't sell anything. To use their sorting, which is fantastic and drives sales, it has to be erotic romance with a romantic plot and HEA.


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

David Adams said:


> My neighbour as a kid was a girl called Alex.  For ages and ages I just assumed it was a girl's name. Same as "Jackie".


While it's totally true that Alex can be a girl's nickname, it's usually just a nickname rather than a name. (OK, that didn't make any sense.) And maybe this is just anecdotal, but I know way more girls names Alexa or Alexandra or Alexis who use Ally or Aly or Alli or Alexa or their full name as the nickname than Alex. And know WAY more boys who use the nickname Alex than girls who do.

And maybe it's just my bias showing as the mom of a baby boy named Alexander whom we call Alex, but I see "Alex Knight" on a cover and assume the author is a dude. I know you're trying to pick a name that's ambiguous enough to make people not know your gender (since you know you should probably not have a blatantly male name on the cover but don't want to take a female pseudonym) but I'm with Liliana. I never buy erotica or erotic romance written by a man. Or at least intentionally. I find it's off the mark from what I'm looking for as a woman.

I'd be much more inclined to buy an erotic story written by an Alexa or a Lexi than an Alex.


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## Burrito Fart (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm sure David will be excited that im bringing this old erotica thread back up (   ) but after reading it ,I'm  wondering if the changes you made helped your sales?


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