# The $2.99 short story conundrum



## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi all,

So, we know Dean Wesley Smith advocates this approach, and he has a wealth of experience and back catalogue to back him up. We also know that there are some on this board have had success at selling short stories at $2.99. However, it seems most of those are within the erotica genre. 

Is it still possible to sell $2.99 shorts in Horror and SF without getting lots of complaints and bad reviews? I've published two so far with many more planned (the two in the bottom right of my sig). They range from 4k to 10k. On a quick survey on twitter and facebook, it seems most people are only prepared to pay $0.99 for a short story. 

Is it really this drastic across genres? Should I price my horror and SF shorts at $0.99? I'm really conflicted. I want to go with the higher price and the DWS method, but I just see a lot of resistance to it. What are your experiences and thoughts?


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

I sell more of my $1.99 short story than my $0.99 short stories. I sell more of my $2.99 short stories than some of my $0.99 short stories.

Now, selling twenty copies a month for one of those stories is a good month for me, so that may not be a good example. But, so far, price really doesn't seem to make much difference.


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

When I start publishing this fall, I'll be pricing my short stories at $2.99 and leaving them be. Ignore the reviews. Keep writing.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

I had the same thought: publish and be damned, and the 6:1 makes sense. However, when I looked at DWS's back catalogue. Most of them had rankings around the million mark, meaning he's lucky to get maybe 1 sale a month on those stories. Many don't even have a rank, meaning  0 sales. And very few if any have reviews. So I have to wonder: are they actually doing anything for the author in terms of both money and exposure? 

A part of me is thinking it would be better to price them lower for better exposure and bundle them into collections for the money. I'm willing to continue with the experiment of 2.99 for the rest of the year and see where it goes, but if they don't sell anything or get on also-boughts or category lists, they're basically invisible and doing nothing.


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## August Wainwright (Apr 25, 2013)

I would think it's much easier to sell a 10k word short at $2.99 if it is incorporated into a series. You might not get much traction selling a random short of that length at $2.99 without anything else to go off of. I would think it would be better, in most circumstances, to either list it at $0.99 OR right 2 or 3 more shorts and bundle them at $2.99 or $3.99.

That being said, I completely agree with the "price it how you want and keep writing" thinking. You probably shouldn't be worrying about maximizing profits from pricing until you have a much larger sample size - meaning thousands of sales.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

August Wainwright said:


> I would think it's much easier to sell a 10k word short at $2.99 if it is incorporated into a series. You might not get much traction selling a random short of that length at $2.99 without anything else to go off of. I would think it would be better, in most circumstances, to either list it at $0.99 OR right 2 or 3 more shorts and bundle them at $2.99 or $3.99.
> 
> That being said, I completely agree with the "price it how you want and keep writing" thinking. You probably shouldn't be worrying about maximizing profits from pricing until you have a much larger sample size - meaning thousands of sales.


This is pretty much what I was leaning to after the brief survey today. It's a much better selling proposition to say have 4 stories in a collection for $3.99.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

Dean bases his strategy on selling 5 copies a month (average) across all platforms, and I suspect that the Pareto Principle applies here and most don't sell 5, and a few sell well enough to keep the average up.  He also doesn't do promotion, he lets volume of books do the promotion for him. (Especially with those short stories.)

So it's really hard to judge the efficacy of his prices by looking at his work -- he's got a whole system going.

Me?  I just raised my prices to closer to his level.  It feels a bit high to me, however, so one place I modify it is that I don't like selling anything shorter than a novelette for 2.99.  As a matter of fact, I'm uncomfortable selling anything under 10k at that price. (Except for erotica which will be under a pen name.)  So I put the two shortest works at 1.99.  That may be the evil price-point from hell, but the whole higher price thing is an experiment anyway.

Camille


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## Ethan Jones (Jan 20, 2012)

I see no difference in sales between $0.99 and $2.99. I only have 3 short stories, one of them being a prequel of my book series.

Thanks,

Ethan


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

I just find it hard justifying in my head selling a 4k story for $2.99 when for the same price I could buy an issue of Asimov's, Clarkesworld, or Nightmare magazine, all of which have about 5-6 stories by excellent authors. 

Although you might sell the odd story here or there at that price, I wonder if it's really increasing your readership that much? Like Nathan Lowell said in another thread (I forget which one now), it's better to charge a price the customer feels they've got good value from and continues to buy your work, than making one sale and never seeing that reader again.


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

ColinFBarnes said:


> Although you might sell the odd story here or there at that price, I wonder if it's really increasing your readership that much?


I think the $2.99 price is targeting already-existing fans of your work, rather than attempting to draw in new fans.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

ColinFBarnes said:


> I just find it hard justifying in my head selling a 4k story for $2.99 when for the same price I could by an issue of Asimov's, Clarkesworkd, or Nightmare magazine, all of which have about 5-6 stories by excellent authors.


But are they stories you want to read?

I have a hard time justifying pushing my 4,000 word story up to $2.99, but I keep thinking about doing so since it's sold better at $1.99 than when it was $0.99. Certainly any of the longer ones will be $2.99 in future.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I sell short stories of up to 7500 words for 0.99 USD, novelettes of 7500 to 17500 words for 2.99 USD and novellas of over 17500 for 3.99 USD and in my experience genre matters far more than price. My all-time bestseller is a 2.99 story, followed by two 99 cent stories. Meanwhile, I also have 99 cent stories that barely sell and 3.99 novellas that sell surprisingly well. I don't get a whole lot of "too short" reviews either, though they happen. But then, short fiction in general doesn't get a whole lot of reviews.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

Edward M. Grant said:


> But are they stories you want to read?
> 
> I have a hard time justifying pushing my 4,000 word story up to $2.99, but I keep thinking about doing so since it's sold better at $1.99 than when it was $0.99. Certainly any of the longer ones will be $2.99 in future.


Yeah, definitely stories I want to read. Those magazines often publish the best short stories around. That's why I find it hard to justify the same price for just one of mine.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

CoraBuhlert said:


> I sell short stories of up to 7500 words for 0.99 USD, novelettes of 7500 to 17500 words for 2.99 USD and novellas of over 17500 for 3.99 USD and in my experience genre matters far more than price. My all-time bestseller is a 2.99 story, followed by two 99 cent stories. Meanwhile, I also have 99 cent stories that barely sell and 3.99 novellas that sell surprisingly well. I don't get a whole lot of "too short" reviews either, though they happen. But then, short fiction in general doesn't get a whole lot of reviews.


Cora, thanks for the information. When you say genres matter, I'm assuming you mean certain genres allow for better pricing? This is my thinking with regards to erotica. That seems to be abe to hold higher prices. Which genres do you sell in?


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## LanceGreencastle (Nov 25, 2011)

Carradee said:


> I think the $2.99 price is targeting already-existing fans of your work, rather than attempting to draw in new fans.


That might be true. I have a collection of short stories priced at $2.99, but I also sell several stories at $0.99. I sell far more of the $0.99 stories then the collection at $2.99.


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## S Jaffe (Jul 3, 2011)

Don't forget that part of it has to concern your purpose. I price my short stories at $.99 because I see them as a way to get people interested in my writing. Hopefully, some will go buy my novels.  I tried pushing the price up to $1.99 and sales plummeted.  I suppose in the end, you have to play with price and find what the market will take.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

$.99 sucks.

Do what you have to do so you don't have to sell everything at $.99, and that may include writing full novels of 50k words, minimum. Short novels aren't the worst!

I love writing short stories, but they're just for fun, not for my career.

Your Mileage May Vary.


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## jsparks (May 18, 2013)

S Jaffe said:


> Don't forget that part of it has to concern your purpose. I price my short stories at $.99 because I see them as a way to get people interested in my writing. Hopefully, some will go buy my novels. I tried pushing the price up to $1.99 and sales plummeted. I suppose in the end, you have to play with price and find what the market will take.


I know my genre is different, so take this as you will, but when I played around with pricing, I was selling okay at 0,99 and at 2,99. I sold almost nothing at 1,99.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

Mimi said:


> $.99 sucks.
> 
> Do what you have to do so you don't have to sell everything at $.99, and that may include writing full novels of 50k words, minimum. Short novels aren't the worst!
> 
> ...


I don't see short stories as my no.1 career priority. I still put 80% of my efforts into novels. But you've given me something to think about. Given the difficulty of pricing and positioning short stories, I wonder if an shouldn't even worry about all this and just focus on novels and novellas exclusively.


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## Tuttle (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't like buying single short stories no matter the cost. I like buying bundles at higher costs.


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

ColinFBarnes said:


> I don't see short stories as my no.1 career priority. I still put 80% of my efforts into novels. But you've given me something to think about. Given the difficulty of pricing and positioning short stories, I wonder if an shouldn't even worry about all this and just focus on novels and novellas exclusively.


Experience will vary by genre and author, of course, but even the idea of a short as a loss leader to introduce people to your other work is not that successful in my experience. If it's the lead-in to an erotic serial, that is a completely different thing. A stand-alone short, though, does very close to nothing.

If you love writing shorts, like I do, keep writing them. Some of your fans will pick up the singles or the collections, and you'll both be happy.

Personally, I love reading short stories. If I was going on a trip, I'd always look for a collection of shorts at the airport. However, people who pick up a book once a year at the airport is a hard market to tap into for the self-publishing author, compared to the market of voracious readers who want books and series of books.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

Mimi said:


> Experience will vary by genre and author, of course, but even the idea of a short as a loss leader to introduce people to your other work is not that successful in my experience. If it's the lead-in to an erotic serial, that is a completely different thing. A stand-alone short, though, does very close to nothing.
> 
> If you love writing shorts, like I do, keep writing them. Some of your fans will pick up the singles or the collections, and you'll both be happy.
> 
> Personally, I love reading short stories. If I was going on a trip, I'd always look for a collection of shorts at the airport. However, people who pick up a book once a year at the airport is a hard market to tap into for the self-publishing author, compared to the market of voracious readers who want books and series of books.


All good points. Thanks for the insight/info. Definitely given me something to think about.


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## Greg Banks (May 2, 2009)

Mimi said:


> $.99 sucks...


If you have enough 99 cent content out there selling well, you can make a decent living. And you can use it to build an audience for higher priced work.


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## Ashy (Jul 2, 2013)

There's also something to be said here for perceived value from the customer. I had a gaming company once and we produced physical products as well as pdf. All of our pdfs were PRICED TO SELL! (i.e. they were on the bottom end of the price scale - analagous to the $0.99 model that all here are familiar with). We sold a few, but given our production values, we were not selling NEARLY as many as some other products with lesser production values.

I talked to some friends in the industry. I told them about a big, deluxe pdf product that we were about to release in an effort to boost our sales and prove our worth to the customer base. We were planning on selling it for next to nothing. My friends in the industry told me to price it at the far upper end of the price scale - we're talking +500% more than what our other products were priced at...I thought they were all insane. I KNEW that we would not sell a single pdf.

I gave in, we priced it high. We sold TONS. It became our best seller, then a best seller on the entire store. Our other pdfs picked up.

The moral of the story: when YOU assign a value to your products, your customers will pick up on it. Look at Apple. Even USED macs go for $800-900. Are they better than other used laptops? Maybe, but doubtful. However, the fact is, there's an inherent value attached to those machines.

The same could be for your products. 

HTH


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## H.M. Ward (May 16, 2012)

An old business saying is if people aren't complaining about your prices, then you're too cheap. As for how much X cost, if it makes me happy, I buy it. I'd buy shorts from my favorite authors without a second thought. I paid $6 for one that was 5K and I loved it. I wish the authors would stop worrying about the people that only want novels and realize they have fans that want the shorter reads. 

From what I can see, there are two different camps. The give-me-a-500K-words-novel people, who don't think anyone else exists. They'll bitch about it, but that's a homing device for your short story addicts. They're the other camp and they come in all stealthy, grab the short story and run like a squirrel with a nut. Nom nom nom  

Do what makes sense to you.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2013)

h.m. ward said:


> An old business saying is if people aren't complaining about your prices, then you're too cheap. As for how much X cost, if it makes me happy, I buy it. I'd buy shorts from my favorite authors without a second thought. I paid $6 for one that was 5K and I loved it. I wish the authors would stop worrying about the people that only want novels and realize they have fans that want the shorter reads.
> 
> From what I can see, there are two different camps. The give-me-a-500K-words-novel people, who don't think anyone else exists. They'll bitch about it, but that's a homing device for your short story addicts. They're the other camp and they come in all stealthy, grab the short story and run like a squirrel with a nut. Nom nom nom
> 
> Do what makes sense to you.


I love the squirrel analogy! And thanks for the info. You do bring up a good point, and one I overlooked: certain readers will want different things, so I suppose there's an argument for catering to all types and not worry about all this so much. I do obsess the small things too often, I think.

Thanks for your post, too, Ashy. I do like to value my work, but I think where my thought process was going wrong was in comparing to magazines and suchlike, but I suppose in reality that's a different market and not neccasarily a direct comparison.


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## Scott Daniel (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm going to publish a novelette-sized story by the end of August. It's a contemporary romance ... I'm kind of wondering if I should go higher than 99 cents myself?


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## Jim Johnson (Jan 4, 2011)

Ashy said:


> The moral of the story: when YOU assign a value to your products, your customers will pick up on it.


Good point. I think DWS and Kris Rusch have discussed this as well. We writers need to get over the fear and the self-doubt and place a value on our work and keep writing. Write a story, price that sucker at 2.99, post it online, and then forget about it and write the next story. Repeat until you can no longer write or publish.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Tuttle said:


> I don't like buying single short stories no matter the cost. I like buying bundles at higher costs.


this.

I rarely buy single short stories. To me it's too much like buying one hershey's minature or a single potato chip.

I HAVE bought some short stories at 99 cents, oddly enough, some Dean Wesley Smith stories.

Then I found that they were also available in a collection. Last time I bought any of his shorts.

I love short stories. But have reached the point where I will only buy collections of anthologies.


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## Pat Chiles (Dec 24, 2011)

I've tried pricing my full-length novel at 3.99 and didn't have much luck with it. 2.99 seems to be the sweet spot, at least for me. I plan to price the sequel at 3.99 and an upcoming short story at 0.99.
Personally, I have a hard time spending more than .99 for a short story unless it's from an author I'm very familiar with.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

ColinFBarnes said:


> Cora, thanks for the information. When you say genres matter, I'm assuming you mean certain genres allow for better pricing? This is my thinking with regards to erotica. That seems to be abe to hold higher prices. Which genres do you sell in?


The genres which sell best for me, whether at 99 cents or 2.99, are historical adventure fiction and historical romance (except for one story which just doesn't sell, no matter what I do). Pirates, whether fantasy or historical, sell well. Non-pirate fantasy not so much. My 3.99 SF novella has sold surprisingly well right out of the gate (published this month), while my 99 cent SF shorts sell very little. My 3.99 crime fiction collection outsells the individual stories I sell for 99 cents, though crime fiction in general does not sell well for me. My 2.99 1930s pulp style thrillers and 1960s style spy adventures don't sell very well, probably because both are niche genres in this day and age.

In general, lesbians, pirates, harem girls, executioners and descriptions of vicious whippings sell well, at least for me. SF rebels seem to sell okay for me. Everything else not so much.


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

It depends on what you want to achieve.  You'll get blowback for sure selling 4k words for $2.99.  And as Dalya said, if you're thinking a cheap short will be a good funnel for new readers, it's probably very unlikely.  I have a few successful short works priced at $2.99, but they're 23k or 24k words, AND they are prequels related to a series of novels.  I find the novels get you the new readers, and the ones who like your work will also buy the shorter pieces.

Again, it depends on genre and what you're trying to achieve, but if you are at an early stage trying to get some readers AND you are seriously committed to trying to make this work as a career, I think you need to be very sensitive about giving potential new readers the feeling that they didn't get much for their money.  You may write well, it may be a good work, you may have spent a lot of time on it...none of that matters.  People will often get annoyed by very short works...and yes, they will still get upset no matter how many times you give the length of the work in the description.

On the other hand, I think 99 cents is good for promotions and sales only.  If you want to make a living as a writer, you're going to have a hard time doing it.  I'd try to write longer pieces (20k words for 2.99, or at the very least 10k).  Alternatively, I'd only sell the shorter pieces in groups (something like Five Ghost Stories to Keep You Up at Night).

Again, write what you want, but these are things to consider in terms of building a fanbase and making writing into a living.

I think DWS is great, and the amount of time he's been willing to put into sharing his experience with other writers is incredible.  But I think new writers can get in trouble trying to literally follow his advice.  He sometimes runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, doing a million things at once and changing strategies rapidly.  That's fine for him.  He's writing for publishers, writing to self-publish, getting backlist available, writing short pieces, writing long pieces, ghost writing, etc.  He's incredibly prolific, so he can play around with, "sell 5 a month" as a strategy.  He probably wrote that story while you were buttering your toast in the morning.

I think most new indies should try to be more focused.  Very few are going to be able to keep up with DWS in production.


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## RoseInTheTardis (Feb 2, 2013)

Speaking only as a reader, I would never by a story below 7,000 words for $2.99. I will buy shorts from very favorite authors for that price, but those tend to be 10K anyhow. 

I don't see a problem pricing them however you want, though. Some people will buy them, some like me won't. But you should make sure to be very clear about the length you're selling. I'd feel super ripped off if I bought a 4K story for more than .99 cents thinking it was longer.


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## crashaddict (Mar 27, 2013)

Just throwing in my $0.99 cents.

As a reader I'd feel ripped off if I paid $2.99 for a story of less than 10K. I'd probably feel that way about a story less than 20K. Especially when you can buy excellent full-length books (60k+) for the same price...in the Sci-Fi & Fantasy categories anyway.

However, this thread has encouraged me to experiment a bit. My 21K book has been $0.99 since it's release but I just upped the price to $2.99. Averaging a couple sales a day at the moment...will see what happens and report back.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

RoseInTheTardis said:


> Speaking only as a reader, I would never by a story below 7,000 words for $2.99. I will buy shorts from very favorite authors for that price, but those tend to be 10K anyhow.
> 
> I don't see a problem pricing them however you want, though. Some people will buy them, some like me won't. But you should make sure to be very clear about the length you're selling. I'd feel super ripped off if I bought a 4K story for more than .99 cents thinking it was longer.


I agree, also as a reader. There are $0.99 ebooks that are 200 pages long, so I will feel ripped off if I have to pay $2.99 for something that is shorter. Regardless of how wonderful the story is.

An alternative is to create an anthology -- someone else has mentioned this in another thread. How about putting together 3-6 short stories and package it as $2.99. That is a fair price.


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## pauldude000 (May 22, 2013)

CoraBuhlert said:


> I sell short stories of up to 7500 words for 0.99 USD, novelettes of 7500 to 17500 words for 2.99 USD and novellas of over 17500 for 3.99 USD and in my experience genre matters far more than price. My all-time bestseller is a 2.99 story, followed by two 99 cent stories. Meanwhile, I also have 99 cent stories that barely sell and 3.99 novellas that sell surprisingly well. I don't get a whole lot of "too short" reviews either, though they happen. But then, short fiction in general doesn't get a whole lot of reviews.


I need some advice. I tried writing a short story, which is not completed yet. I have discovered something. I cannot write a short story, as I do not know HOW to write a short story. I can tell a story, even a short one. In writing it down... it grows, and grows, and grows.

It is growing like a weed at springtime.

My short story is almost at 20k, and I am about a quarter of the way finished with the plot.

Grrr.

How do you keep a short story... short?


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2013)

pauldude000 said:


> I need some advice. I tried writing a short story, which is not completed yet. I have discovered something. I cannot write a short story, as I do not know HOW to write a short story. I can tell a story, even a short one. In writing it down... it grows, and grows, and grows.
> 
> It is growing like a weed at springtime.
> 
> ...


It helps to sketch the idea out. I write between 1k and 2k per scene in a novel, so for short stories I reduce that to around 750 to 1.5k. I then write 3 to 5 scenes depending on the final word count and work from there. It helps if you think of a 3 act structure. For a short stories, the scenes can map directly to that, so you could just have 3 scenes. If it runs a little longer then reduce the word count for each scene. It helps to focus on one character and one problem. Don't think about subplots, and keep the character cast small. My short stories often only feature 2 or 3 characters outside of the POV. But the key thing is to start the story as close to the finish as possible, right in the middle of some conflict.

Hope that helps.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

I would like to point out that, whatever the pricing, there is another reason to publish short stories individually: Exposure.

Whether 99 cents or $2.99 or whatever, if you have a few dozen short stories available on Amazon, that's a few dozen ways for the readers to find you. Then if you bundle, make sure there's a link from each short story's Amazon listing to the bundle.


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## pauldude000 (May 22, 2013)

ColinFBarnes said:


> It helps to sketch the idea out. I write between 1k and 2k per scene in a novel, so for short stories I reduce that to around 750 to 1.5k. I then write 3 to 5 scenes depending on the final word count and work from there. It helps if you think of a 3 act structure. For a short stories, the scenes can map directly to that, so you could just have 3 scenes. If it runs a little longer then reduce the word count for each scene. It helps to focus on one character and one problem. Don't think about subplots, and keep the character cast small. My short stories often only feature 2 or 3 characters outside of the POV. But the key thing is to start the story as close to the finish as possible, right in the middle of some conflict.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Actually, that does help quite a bit. I will definitely need to structure the plot. (I usually free write.) I was trying to treat a short story exactly like a novel, just shorter. From what you have said, it is a whole different ballgame towards the necessary approach. With such a limited approach, how do you keep the characters from being a 'cardboard cutout'?

If I could get this down, I could write three or four shorts a day whenever I need a break from a particular novel or from editing. It would help keep the creative juices from stagnating, so to speak. When I have written enough of them, I could publish collections of the best stories in the stack, so the time would not be a business write off as well.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I recommend that if you want to write short fiction, you first read a ton of short fiction and study how the stories work.  That would likely answer all your questions on how to structure one and how to build deep, interesting, and memorable characters in a shorter word count.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2013)

Well, at the risk of being told, "What do you know? You write erotica...!"

Here's my experience:

When I first publish anything short, I start it out at a range of $2.99 and up, based on word count. I have my own system in place that I follow, I'm not gonna say it's perfect for every writer in every genre.

But I tend not to write anything shorter than 5K.

So if something short is between 5K and 10K, I price it at $2.99 most of the time. If it's over 10K (I've not gone over 15K on individual shorts yet), it's $3.99. Generally speaking.

When I get several such stories together, I'll gather 3-5 of them into a collection and price it so that the reader is saving the price of at least one installment by buying the collection, instead of buying separately.

So, for example, if I have three stories at $2.99, I'll make the collection $5.99 so that it's priced at a "buy two, get one free" sort of level.

And in the case of another collection I did, I had four stories at $3.99 and one story at $2.99, so that was $19 or so worth of value... and I published it in a volume that I placed at $9.99. Almost half-off of purchasing separately.

That strategy worked while the books were fresh. Most of those stories are now over 18 months old, some of them almost two years old.

So, to reflect their age (and make way for my newer titles) I recently did a bunch of across-the-board price reductions on my backlist, so that when I released my latest $3.99 new story, it would encourage folks to pick up the backlist, too.

So, generally, newer stuff stays a bit higher; once it's sold through for at least 18 months, I reduce it and keep it there fore backlist sales.

For backlist, I generally put the $2.99 titles down to $0.99, the $3.99 down to $2.99, and the collections get reduced accordingly.

So far, it's worked well for me. Granted, I'm not a "horror writer" or anything, but the business strategy is sound, I think.

However, don't count me out of "legit" just yet. My next couple of series are gonna be "erotic/time travel" and "erotic/crime-suspense." So...  I'll be crossing over a bit... and my covers and content is sure to be hot, whether a hot-seller or not.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2013)

pauldude000 said:


> I need some advice. I tried writing a short story, which is not completed yet. I have discovered something. I cannot write a short story, as I do not know HOW to write a short story. I can tell a story, even a short one. In writing it down... it grows, and grows, and grows.
> 
> It is growing like a weed at springtime.
> 
> ...


I've mostly written mid-range short. (5K-15K)

It is an artform... even in my genre.

The idea is to say more with less.

In a novel, you can kill 500 - 2000 words talking about how Billy got a super-wedgie in 6th grade and the memories of that still make him hesitant to trust others, and have that whole digression be a complete scene that, in a sea of 80K words, is a pleasant diversion.

In a short story, you need to get the same essential wounded characterization across without all the lengthy backstory. So you sprinkle in a bit of dialogue here or there, a suggestive gesture, a couple key hints. Let that lead the reader to identify or associate in the direction you want them to go, and fill in the blanks.

Instead of 500-2,000 words to get that stuff across, you have to find effective ways to do the same thing in only a few words.

Like under 100.

Short fiction is a subtler art, in that sense.

Some writer much smarter than me once said this:

"Good fiction isn't everything that happened. It's every interesting thing that happened."

I can flow with that. But if that's true, then here's my amendment for short fiction:

"Good short fiction isn't every interesting thing that happened. It's the single most important thing that happened."

Helpful?

---

One of the best shorts I ever read, I'm not even sure got published because it was by someone who wrote it at a writer's retreat I attended some time ago.

The guy was "a little off." The other writers kinda ostracized him. He was a hippy type and during one meeting went on a diatribe about how he hated the Space Shuttle program because he once attended an Apollo launch and those were majestic like Pontiac Bonnevilles, while Shuttle launches, to him, were like VW Bugs.

Whatever. He was a little off.

Being ostracized among other writers bugged the guy. I found him alone one night in the cafeteria, grabbing a midnight snack. We started talking about midnight and it was 3 AM before I got back to my room for some sleep. He revealed himself to be gabby but pleasant.

The next day, he left the retreat three days early, still stinging from how most of the writers ostracized him.

The retreat leader found a short story he'd written, barely 500 words long, and read it to us.

It was about a guy who picks up a hitchhiker. The hitchhiker tries to rob him. The driver is in his 80s. He laughs at the kid and basically says one or two sentences about the kid picking the wrong guy to rob.

"Why's that?" the robber demanded.

And I can't remember the exact line, but it had something to do with chemo or some sort of biopsy coming back positive. And the story ends with a sentence about the old guy aiming his car away from the road, toward a tree.

Might sound generic, but not the way he wrote it. In the space of about 500 words, he created two memorable characters and a shock ending that I still remember to this day, from longer ago than I'll ever admit to! 

That's what a short story is, when done by a master of the form.

Small, suggestive brush strokes. Just enough to get the most important thing across. The point of the story. Nothing more.

Everyone who heard that story read spent the rest of the day feeling like crap for ostracizing a rather genius short story writer. I was just glad I'd lost those three hours of sleep to chatting with him... I felt less guilty than most.


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## lynnfromthesouth (Jun 21, 2012)

There's another solution here, one I'm considering. And that's not to sell shorts myself, but submit those to magazines. I prefer writing longer stuff. When I write shorts, it won't be a regular thing. I have one that I'm editing, and I'm thinking I will try my hand at submitting it. 

I could write a few more and release it as a collection, but I just don't get good ideas for shorts very often.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2013)

LynnBlackmar said:


> There's another solution here, one I'm considering. And that's not to sell shorts myself, but submit those to magazines. I prefer writing longer stuff. When I write shorts, it won't be a regular thing. I have one that I'm editing, and I'm thinking I will try my hand at submitting it.
> 
> I could write a few more and release it as a collection, but I just don't get good ideas for shorts very often.


This is exactly my approach: submit to pro-paying markets first and if it doesn't get picked up, publish it myself. Over night I've been thinking about this price thing. I looked at my genre (horror & Sf) and in the short story category, pretty much every story is 0.99c. It's the collections that are 2.99 and 3.99. So, my plan is to publish each at 0.99 for exposure only, not worrying about any income, I'll then bundle together four stories for 2.99, and each individual one will link to the collection. That way I'll have more stories floating around hopefully grabbing people's attentions, but also links to a collection that will give them an extra story for their money.

Anything longer than 15k will be published at 2.99 as a novella.

This way I get the best of both worlds: stories priced to market, and bundles offering value and returning a better royalty. If I were to do everything at 2.99 I really doubt that I'd get many sales, and part of the aim of short stories is for readers to sample my work so they'll buy the more expensive novels and novellas.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Ty Johnston said:


> I would like to point out that, whatever the pricing, there is another reason to publish short stories individually: Exposure.
> 
> Whether 99 cents or $2.99 or whatever, if you have a few dozen short stories available on Amazon, that's a few dozen ways for the readers to find you. Then if you bundle, make sure there's a link from each short story's Amazon listing to the bundle.


Personally, I'd only do that if you are planning to sell on Amazon only. Like via Select.

Because otherwise you need to change that growing list of links for each platform (B&N, Nook, Smashwords, Kobo, etc) every time you publish something new.

What I do is get a link to my author site/blog, directly to a page created just for each book. Then I offer links to every retailer that sells my book, from that book page.

That way, my author site gets traffic, and readers can choose whatever retailer they want for the eBook reader they are using.

Even though 90 percent of them will STILL be Amazon. But seriously, it's way easier to control and maintain links on your own author site rather than put a bunch of different links in each and every new book you write, for 5-6 different retailers, and updating your backlist every time you do that.

Just point 'em to your author website/blog, that's my advice; and have an individual page there, for each of your books, stories, or whatever you want to call 'em.

Plus, retailers don't mind links to author websites.

But if you forget and leave Amazon links in a Kobo book? They care about that.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

There are a lot of interesting takes on this.

As I'm new to the indie scene, I value every nugget of information I can get.

It seems to me the price should reflect the respect you have for your own work - but it should respect the reader, too. $2.99 for a 4K short would be absurd to me as a reader. Some authors may get away with it for a time, but they may have short-lived careers if their fan base starts to feel like they're being harvested. They're people, not crops.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

If you're following that strategy, Colin, just be sure those "paying market" magazines don't gobble up your eRights when they purchase your story. Or any anthology rights.

Make sure all they're getting is "One-Time North American Serial Rights" or words to that effect.

Otherwise you might find yourself restricted from publishing your own work.

I know because it has happened to me.

I had a short story published in an anthology of children's stories, back in the 1990s. (Girls to the Rescue, Volume 1, Meadowbrook Press)

I was paid a one-time flat fee of $500.00. A couple years later, they send me another $200 or so because some foreign rights had been sold.

And since then, not a penny.

Not a complaint, really: getting around $700 for one short story is a pretty princely sum, even today.

However, the publisher in question has kept the book furtively in print ever since, via library sales. So the rights never revert. EVER.

Which means I have a perfectly nice middle-grade short story I wrote, that I can never include in any anthology or collection of my own writing.

And I know this because I've made inquiries of the publisher. They flat-out refuse to even grant me reprint rights.

There was brief talks in the late 1990s of a kids' show being made out of that anthology. (There were multiple installments.) If TV rights had sold and my story had become an episode, I suppose I might have gotten another little $200 check... but the pilot was never ordered to series.

Frankly, I don't know why those who've gone indie with longer works would necessarily want to (except by invite) seek out "trad-publishing" markets for their short stuff.

Short stuff is often harder than novels to find a home for; the waits are just as long; the expenses can be equal or greater; and the "trad-pub" pay day is usually pretty low, unless Playboy or The Atlantic or The New Yorker something like that comes calling.

But, really, short fiction is just as easy to self-pub as long stuff, builds your library of available titles, and can definitely be profitable. I've only done one so far, and chose to make it perma-free for the exposure... but that's largely because I usually write longer works. I don't get many short fiction ideas.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> If you're following that strategy, Colin, just be sure those "paying market" magazines don't gobble up your eRights when they purchase your story. Or any anthology rights.
> 
> Make sure all they're getting is "One-Time North American Serial Rights" or words to that effect.
> 
> ...


Most pro-paying markets don't take away your rights other than first print etc. They're mostly pretty good on that front. I'm referring to things like Lightspeed, Clarkesworld, Nightmare, Asimov's, Ellery etc... and to be honest, the money from them is quite significant with many of them paying around 5c a word. The other thing to consider is the huge amount of exposure you get. Those magazine have a much further reach to a readerships than most indies will ever have just publishing stuff themselves and hoping someone will stumble upon it. DWS is bang on IMHO that pro-markets come first with short stories, and there's more and more markets opening up all the time these days. Self pub shorts, for me, definitely come second after they've gone through the submission process. Once you get a catalogue of stories out there, it won't take long before they're either accepted or rejected and you can put them out yourself. And in the meantime, I'll continue to publish novels and novellas.


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## Herc- The Reluctant Geek (Feb 10, 2010)

A few good shorts given away could be viewed as an investment in marketing for your longer works. 

My non-fiction study guides took off after I set two books to free- one 2000w, the other 5000w. I put the price of the 5000w one up to $0.99 and it still sold very well.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

rjkennett said:


> It seems to me the price should reflect the respect you have for your own work - but it should respect the reader, too. $2.99 for a 4K short would be absurd to me as a reader. Some authors may get away with it for a time, but they may have short-lived careers if their fan base starts to feel like they're being harvested. They're people, not crops.


RJ,

Rather strong words/accusations. Not sure who they're directed at.

But I hope this can help you:

Folks in the writer's cafe who are indie writers have to function in two roles, that sometimes come into conflict.

The writer/artist side of us just wants readers... exposure... enough money to live on.

But we must also function as publisher/business people. Which means discussing marketing, pricing, strategies, etc.

Don't allow the business-talk threads to mislead you into thinking we're all "just about the money" here at KBWC.

We're not.

But discussing different ideas, from different perspectives, from both the writer/artistic side of things AND from the publisher/business side of things is, well, par for the course around here.

We all bat around different ideas or things we've tried that have worked for us. Approaches vary greatly!

That doesn't mean we're all "harvesters" treating readers like "crops."  The longer you hang with us all, the clearer that all will become. Enjoy the ride and welcome aboard!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Herc- The Reluctant Geek said:


> A few good shorts given away could be viewed as an investment in marketing for your longer works.
> 
> My non-fiction study guides took off after I set two books to free- one 2000w, the other 5000w. I put the price of the 5000w one up to $0.99 and it still sold very well.


Agreed. That's why I published UNDER CONTRACT and made it perma-free. Even when nothing else is selling, or moving only 1-2 copies a month, I'm giving away about 100 copies of UNDER CONTRACT per month.

That's about 1,200 new readers a year. By the time my next novel comes out, that's a potential built-in audience that should rocket my new release to more sales than either Shada or Most Likely enjoyed, combined.

Or that's the hope, anyway.

Plus, Under Contract being free is probably why Shada and Most Likely still move 1-2 copies a month.


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

As a reader, I would NOT pay $2.99 for a story that was 10k words or less, erotica or not.


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## Ashy (Jul 2, 2013)

ColinFBarnes said:


> Thanks for your post, too, Ashy. I do like to value my work, but I think where my thought process was going wrong was in comparing to magazines and suchlike, but I suppose in reality that's a different market and not neccasarily a direct comparison.


*bows*

My pleasure, sir!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

RM Prioleau said:


> As a reader, I would NOT pay $2.99 for a story that was 10k words or less, erotica or not.


Was someone forcing you to?     

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've only seen different people sharing what has worked or not worked for them. Did I miss something?


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## RM Prioleau (Mar 18, 2011)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Was someone forcing you to?
> 
> I haven't read the whole thread, but I've only seen different people sharing what has worked or not worked for them. Did I miss something?


I was referring to the OP (only skimmed through the other posts). He mentioned he had stories ranging from 4k to 10k. I was speaking as a reader who does enjoy short reads.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Rather strong words/accusations. Not sure who they're directed at.


Craig, thanks for the response. My comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular, nor was it meant to stir up a hornet's nest my first day on the boards - it was just an observation.

As I wrote my novel, I read a lot of other author's work. Being gainfully unemployed during most of that time, I went for free or cheap e-books most of the time, and sprung for full-priced when I had the means. From my personal experience, I gagged when I saw a short story being sold for the same price as many full-length novels.

I also gag when I see a full-length novel being distributed for free, but I understand the marketing theory behind it and it seems to work for some people. It's their work, their call. For me, I worked hard on my novel, and deserve to make some money on it. I can't fathom ever giving it away - the readers will come in time.

Again, I'm new here, and new to the process of indie publishing. My take may well be off-base as my experience and reasons for reading what I've read are probably an anomaly. Authors deserve to be compensated for their hard work. I just think they should keep value to the reader in the forefront of their minds.


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## Derrick M. (Jul 27, 2013)

great...now I want to write a short story about a would-be writer harvesting readers like crops to grow more stories.....I really need to stay off these boards! (gets out notebook and adds under "future stories")......


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## Alex Jace (May 6, 2013)

I'm in the early stages of a $2.99 short story strategy. I know a lot of readers consider that price too high and I respect that - those readers won't be my audience and that's fine. My challenge is to find readers (if there are any!) who are comfortable with paying that price for my work. I persistently undervalue my own work, so this is an attempt to break that habit.


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## Ty Johnston (Jun 19, 2009)

LynnBlackmar said:


> There's another solution here, one I'm considering. And that's not to sell shorts myself, but submit those to magazines.


Unless it's a magazine that is extremely well known (at least in your genre/market), I would suggest instead to submit to anthologies. With today's markets, there is much more longevity to the life of an anthology, potentially forever, than there is to magazines. And in my experience, the pay is also better.

Also, once you have a few anthologies under your belt and editors begin to recognize your name, you won't have to blindly submit stories any longer. They will be contacting you to ask if you want to take part in an upcoming anthology. Other writers will start mentioning your name to their anthology editors. You still have to come forth with a quality story, of course, or your tale could get nixed, but at least you won't be submitting to the wind, so to speak.

Watch what rights you're giving away, but in most cases a year or two after the anthology is published, rights will revert to you and you can use the story again.


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## RoseInTheTardis (Feb 2, 2013)

LynnBlackmar said:


> There's another solution here, one I'm considering. And that's not to sell shorts myself, but submit those to magazines. I prefer writing longer stuff. When I write shorts, it won't be a regular thing. I have one that I'm editing, and I'm thinking I will try my hand at submitting it.
> 
> I could write a few more and release it as a collection, but I just don't get good ideas for shorts very often.


That's what I do. Magazines or anthologies. I only submit to paying markets but I'll accept low ("token") markets or non-paying charity markets too. I think it's fun to be able to say 'I have a story in this collection' or 'in this magazine.'

I use Duotrope.com to find places to submit my stories to, but Submission Grinder (http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/) is the free version of that.

As others have warned, just read to make sure you understand the rights they ask for. Most only ask for first print rights and first e-rights if they're a webzine or an anthology that's going to have to an e-version, but most of those first rights expire after 6 months-1 year. Don't be as concerned with first e-rights (it's not like book publishing.. you usually can't publish the e-version yourself until the magazine has been out 3 months or the book 6 anyhow so you can't make money). Just make sure all rights revert back to you in a timely manner.


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## KaryE (May 12, 2012)

I'm in the DWS (Dean Wesley Smith) camp for pricing, for the most part.

Readers, like car buyers, vary in what they want and what they're willing to pay. Some want a Ford Fiesta (Honda Fit, Toyota Matrix, etc), they research dealer invoice, they get the best deal they can and ask the dealer to throw in floor mats at the last minute. More power to 'em. Others want the Mercedes, they want it in a certain color, with certain options and they might not even haggle if they can get the package they want. There's a whole spectrum in the middle, too.

For RJ - part of the problem with short story pricing is Amazon's take at the lower prices. At $2.98 or less, Zon pays the author 35%. So on a 99 cent story, the author gets 35 cents. That's low enough to rankle, and it's a large part of why many authors are reluctant to price below $2.99. At $2.99, the author makes about $2.07 per sale.

Me, personally, I'd price my shorter shorts at $1.99 if authors got half, and if $1.99 wasn't a black hole of death as far as sales go (for some unknown reason, stuff will sell at 99 cents, and at $2.99, but at $1.99 all you hear is wind whistling through the canyons and the dry rustle of tumbleweeds).

Another part of the problem is indie pricing in general. Many indies priced their work very low - full novels for a buck, box sets for $2.99 - and there's a certain segment of the reader population who are so accustomed to these prices, they they not only won't pay more, they may even get angry or chastise the writer at higher prices. Note that I have no beef with these readers. This is what the free market is about - the meeting of buyer and seller at a mutually agreeable price point. Speaking historically, those price points were all the rage a few years ago, and sales volume (and different algorithms) went a long way toward making up the difference for the author. Things are different today. Elle Casey recently knocked it out of the park with a 99 cent novel, but that's an anomaly now, not status quo. Today, there's a swath of readers who think 99 cents is an indicator of poor quality.

Let's look at things from the other end. What can you buy for 99 cents these days? Not a cup of coffee or a cheeseburger (McDs wants a buck twenty now). A candy bar, a single donut, a can of tomatoes or loaf of bread on sale, maybe a cheap plastic thingamajig from the dollar store. Is a 7,000 word short worth more than a candy bar?

What about time spent? How much is a half hour's entertainment worth? 25% of a 2 hour movie would be about three bucks. One ride on a rollercoaster, 90 seconds worth, will also cost you a couple of bucks. Even Disneyland is about 10 bucks an hour if you pay $100/day and stay in the park 10 hours. Is a short story worth half an hour of Disneyland?

Trad pubbed hardcovers run about 24 bucks, so let's say 80,000 words for the hardcover vs. an 8,000 word short. That would be $2.40. Words are words, right? Note that I'm not advocating pricing shorts as a percentage of hardcover price. I'm just pointing out the difficulty of of assigning monetary value to them.

In 2011, I ought a copy of Analog for $5. It had 7 stories in it, but I bought that issue for just one, Ray of Light by Brad Torgersen, so arguably, I'm cool paying $5 for a single story. Also, using advertising-supported magazines as a proxy for individual story pricing is flawed methodology because ad revenue brings down the cost to the reader. We'd pay more if Analog had no ads. Can you imagine the hullabaloo if an author stuffed several pages worth of ads in their 99 cent short? There's a thread here saying that a reader was irked over a free sample that took up some 25% of a book's pageturns_ even though the reader got a full novel for her $2.99_.

As for DWS, here are his most recent recommendations. Yes, he's controversial here, but that's the beauty of the free market. Authors are free to ignore him and price however they like, and readers are free to buy within their preferred price range, whatever that may be.

*- Novels
*
Front list, meaning brand new. Over 50,000 words. $7.99

Shorter front list novels, meaning 30,000 to 50,000 words. $6.99

Backlist novels, meaning already published by a traditional publisher. $6.99
*
- Short Books*

Short books, meaning stories from 8,000 words to 30,000 words. $3.99

*- Short Stories*

Short stories &#8230; 4,000 to 8,000 words. $2.99

Short stories under 4,000 double with another bonus story&#8230; $2.99
*
- Collections*

5 stories $4.99

10 stories $7.99
- See more at: http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=7891


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

Hi KaryE, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You bring up some valid points on pricing and Amazon's 35% deal.

I guess it all depends on the quality the reader gets for the price. I don't want to disparage anyone's hard work, but I've read free stories and felt robbed because they stole my time. I've run into books that were well-edited for the first 25%, or enough to cover the free sample on Amazon, then fell apart. And I've read some free novels and shorts that were well-written and a lot of fun - same for several I paid for.

It's no mystery: the great thing about indie publishing is that anyone can do it. The bad thing is that _anyone can do it_. We have to police our own quality, and no one wants to admit their work bites.

But perhaps I'm selling myself short and should bump my novel's price to $4.99 for a spell, see how it shakes out, if shorts are actually selling for $2.99.


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## Gone To Croatan (Jun 24, 2011)

rjkennett said:


> But perhaps I'm selling myself short and should bump my novel's price to $4.99 for a spell, see how it shakes out, if shorts are actually selling for $2.99.


$4.99 is still impulse buy level for many people. Maybe most people.

So if they want to read that book, doesn't much matter whether it's $0.99 or $4.99, because it's still too cheap to haggle over.


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## KaryE (May 12, 2012)

Re: policing one's own quality - absolutely! I use beta readers, a proofreader, and at least one (sometimes two) professional editors. I do everything I can to put out a quality product. That said, those professional services bump up my production cost, which makes 99 cents pretty much impossible unless I'm running a deliberate loss leader or a temporary sale during a promo.

I sympathize with readers who have experienced shoddy books at any price point, even free. I, too, have put down books mid-read because of typos, grammar errors and the like. That said, it doesn't seem like good business sense to let the prices of those works affect *my* pricing. We're different products, and I compete with them on quality, not price.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

rjkennett said:


> It seems to me the price should reflect the respect you have for your own work - but it should respect the reader, too. $2.99 for a 4K short would be absurd to me as a reader. Some authors may get away with it for a time, but they may have short-lived careers if their fan base starts to feel like they're being harvested. They're people, not crops.


I suspect you were referring to my contributions/posts here. That's okay. Erotica writers like me get very little in the way of respect. I'm used to it. I'll simply respond that I don't employ mobsters to go around forcing anyone to OneClick my titles. Really, I don't.

And I suspect those who don't like my prices don't buy my stuff. But my books aren't for everyone. They're stories for people who like what I write.

But am I really worse than authors who work for big publishers who want to charge $12.99 to $16.99 for their eBooks, even while most indies don't go above $9.99? If you think I'm worse than those folks, that's you're right. Clearly, you won't buy my stuff. That's your freedom of choice!  But I'm grateful for each and every reader who finds my little tales diverting enough to OneClick whenever I release something new.

Bless you and welcome to KB. May you enjoy much success.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

RM Prioleau said:


> As a reader, I would NOT pay $2.99 for a story that was 10k words or less, erotica or not.


And that's your choice, RM. Fortunately, not everyone feels as you do, and no one's forcing anyone to buy anything. eBooks are not car insurance!  Folks buy what they want to buy at whatever price they wish to pay.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

The thing that gets me about pricing is the determination some indies have of racing to the bottom. It started a couple of years ago with the .99 for a novel thing. As a strategy for getting interest in books, I think it was fine. But then it was just price every book at .99.

The problem there is, what do we charge for short stories? We can't go lower than .99. I'd charge .49 if I could (and it just occurred to me that I should have been doing this at Smashwords, and let Amazon price match. Doh.), though 35% of .49 isn't much.

Now we have these new writers coming in that want to do a continual round of free promotions in Select, or even better, have their books permanently free. And I don't mean as a loss leader or with any other selling strategy. I swear, they seem to think that Amazon pays them even if the book is free.

This post is getting too long for this early in the morning. What I'm saying, in my rambling way, is that ultimately we decide what to charge for our work. Trying to have some parity to traditionally published work isn't a bad thing, and if Starbucks can sell a boatload of coffees I never heard of and make a fortune, maybe that's not a bad lesson.


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## RJ Kennett (Jul 31, 2013)

SarahSalari said:


> I suspect you were referring to my contributions/posts here. That's okay. Erotica writers like me get very little in the way of respect. I'm used to it. I'll simply respond that I don't employ mobsters to go around forcing anyone to OneClick my titles. Really, I don't.
> 
> And I suspect those who don't like my prices don't buy my stuff. But my books aren't for everyone. They're stories for people who like what I write.
> 
> ...


I wasn't referring to anyone's specific contributions to the discussion. I'm sorry if you took offense and thought I was referring to you - I wasn't. I was speaking in generalities. If I had a beef with something you said, I'd call attention to that.

In response to the discussion we had on this board, however, I raised the price of my ebook novel from $2.99 to $4.99, as valid points were raised regarding Amazon's percentage and the ability to promote a discount while remaining within KDP pricing boundaries. I wanted to see if there was an impact. The result after a few days, for any who are interested: if there's an impact, it's in the positive direction. Sales have increased. Perhaps it's because people will kick the tires a bit more at a higher price, perhaps I'm reading too much into too little data at this point. But the $4.99 price point for a novel so far, is working.

Price your shorts as you like - if it works, great!


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## Susan Kaye Quinn (Aug 8, 2011)

RoseInTheTardis said:


> That's what I do. Magazines or anthologies. I only submit to paying markets but I'll accept low ("token") markets or non-paying charity markets too. I think it's fun to be able to say 'I have a story in this collection' or 'in this magazine.'
> 
> I use Duotrope.com to find places to submit my stories to, but Submission Grinder (http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/) is the free version of that.
> 
> As others have warned, just read to make sure you understand the rights they ask for. Most only ask for first print rights and first e-rights if they're a webzine or an anthology that's going to have to an e-version, but most of those first rights expire after 6 months-1 year. Don't be as concerned with first e-rights (it's not like book publishing.. you usually can't publish the e-version yourself until the magazine has been out 3 months or the book 6 anyhow so you can't make money). Just make sure all rights revert back to you in a timely manner.


Thanks for this!


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## Tricia O&#039; (Feb 19, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> RJ,
> 
> Rather strong words/accusations. Not sure who they're directed at.
> 
> ...


This.

Well put.


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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