# A new listing recommending professionally written and produced Indie books.



## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Like many of us, I've been burned by downloading free or cheap books that are just plain bad. I looked at reviews and discovered that a lot of the people writing them didn't seem to notice that the writing was poor or it had masses of spelling mistakes and poor grammar. Where are the books vetoed by people who know good writing from bad, I wondered. I wanted a list that guaranteed that a book was professionally written, but I couldn't find anything based on writer's or editors opnions, so I've started one myself.

It's called the Awesome Indies listing and it guarantees readers a professional product in formatting and writing. Books must be recommended by a professional writer or editor who has read the book. It's not a big list yet, but it's growing. http://tahlianewland.com/awesome-indies/

What do you think of this idea? If you know of great Indie book to add to the list, find an author or editor who has read it, or a review by one and fill in the form on the page.


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## Brad Murgen (Oct 17, 2011)

Interesting idea, I usually check a sample if one is available... I am generally wary if a cheap book has a lot of positive reviews but no sample available.  If it's good, don't hide it.


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## intinst (Dec 23, 2008)

No thanks, I'll continue to do my own picking. Who decides a writer or editor is a "professional?" Why would I choose someone else's definition?


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

While in theory it could be useful, especially if you are willing to spend time vetting the submissions and establishing a track record of useful information; at least for this reader you'll have to get past the hurdle of convincing me it's not a case of indie authors promoting indie authors in yet another "you scratch my indie back, I'll scratch yours" situation.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Nogdog, you are so wise.

My method: I read them.  I plow through some that have promise right up until...they don't.  I am sometimes enraged at being let down when I'm well over halfway through and the plot explodes, leaking like a rotted pumpkin shot full of buckshot.    I've actually become extremely grateful to those writers who can't bother to get the spelling or grammar right in the first 10 pages.  They save me a lot of time. I delete those without any time wasted.  It's the ones that hold a glimmer of promise...that go from a 5 to a 4 to 1 that send steam out my ears...


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Tahlia-

Good luck with the new site. As we ask that website and blog authors follow the same rules for promotion as book authors, you too get the coveted KB Welcome Letter. (We've also moved and merged the thread you had in the Book Corner with your thread here in the Book Bazaar.)

As you know, KindleBoards is a Kindle fan and reader forum. As you browse KindleBoards, keep in mind that *self-promotion, of any sort, is ONLY allowed in the Book Bazaar*. (You've posted your thread in the right place; this is just our standard welcome that we place in all book threads. )

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## HeidiHall (Sep 5, 2010)

I don't think this is a bad idea, but it would be easy to game the system if you let any author or editor make recommendations. Also, I couldn't take advantage of your listings because I'm on my fire and there's no way to hover as instructed...since I think a lot of readers shop directly from their device, you may want to make the site more tablet friendly. Will you have books from all genres or just a few? I like where you're going though and it could be a very valuable service to readers!


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

I am curious though; if other people do enjoy them, does it make them bad? Why is their qualification less indicating than that of another?


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## history_lover (Aug 9, 2010)

NogDog said:


> While in theory it could be useful, especially if you are willing to spend time vetting the submissions and establishing a track record of useful information; at least for this reader you'll have to get past the hurdle of convincing me it's not a case of indie authors promoting indie authors in yet another "you scratch my indie back, I'll scratch yours" situation.


Shills are also a problem on Amazon - reviews from the agent/author/publishing company/friends or family of the author who don't disclose their relationship to the author/book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

My vetting method involves covers, ratings/reviews, blurbs, and samples.

Cover: someone who can't be bothered making a professional cover may not be bothered making their writing professional either so I skip over unprofessional covers.

Ratings and Reviews: I won't usually go for something that has no ratings/reviews - even if it has a few good reviews, I typically assume some may be shills. It has to have more than a few reviews for me to consider it - and I check both Amazon and Goodreads ratings since Goodreads seems to have less shills.

Blurbs: If the blurb is poorly written or doesn't give me a good idea of what the book is about, it's probably not going to be well written.

Samples: While not available on free books, I always, always sample even $0.99 books. If the writing is bad, you can usually tell from the sample. If I get a free book that's poorly written, I'll usually abandon it within 25% of the book.


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## BJMorgan (Feb 7, 2012)

MrPLD said:


> I am curious though; if other people do enjoy them, does it make them bad? Why is their qualification less indicating than that of another?


I'd suggest that books are like any other medium. What one person will love, another will loathe - and all levels between <lol> So reviews are an indication with perhaps the bad ones that cite poor grammar / plot or whatever being the ones to look for (shill reviews won't be one star!), but in the end it's yourself who makes the decision to get the book or not.

Here I'm of the opinion it's the 'look inside' that gives the game away and if you are turned off by the first chapter then it's probably not worth your while going any further. Whether it's the writing style, spelling errors that leap out at you, grammatical mistakes you cannot live with (even if the plot is good otherwise, if your teeth are going to grind at every poor use of grammar then it's going to kill the book for you).

Covers are an entirely different matter: "Never judge a book by its cover" <lol> I've been impressed by the very professional covers in the various signatures in here (and elsewhere) but these probably cost the author a tidy sum, unless they are also amazing graphics artist too, and not all authors will have the means to have them done. Particularly thinking here of the budding author who doesn't have a lot of funds behind them, putting myself in this category! If the first novel takes off then the next one can have a more lavish cover but don't discount on the cover alone - after all, a really amazing cover can dress up a dreary book in the same way as a dull cover can hide a gem 

Regarding the subject of the Awesome Indies listing - nice idea and hope it takes off. I know I'd be thrilled to make it onto such a listing as it's a peer-review list, but not holding my breath as there are a LOT of books out there all competing for the time of the reviewers!


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

I rely on my twin sister, who has more reading time than I do. When she reads one she knows I'll like, she texts me and I download it! Saves me time and money.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

I think Amazon does a decent job in offering multiple channels from which you can thoroughly vett a novel before committing your money.

I love the Click to Look Inside feature and can get an idea of the writing style within a page or two. If I am on the run with my Kindle then it is Download Sample that I use.

I too look at reviews. Odd thing is I almost always go to the worst ones and read those first. Not sure why I do that.


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

bxs122 said:


> I too look at reviews. Odd thing is I almost always go to the worst ones and read those first. Not sure why I do that.


I'm actually the same - I don't know why I do it, I think in part to see if it's a legitimate bad review or just a set of whiny rants. If it falls into the whiny rants I tend to go back and look at the higher ratings and a preview.


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## Jorja Tabu (Feb 6, 2012)

This seems like it might be very helpful for certain people (those who, as several have said, simply cannot stand typos or grammar mistakes, for example) even if tastes differ.  My question is about genre--many discerning readers have preferences based on genre, and not only style; maybe separating genres on the website would be helpful?


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## onewomanseye (Aug 17, 2011)

I think this is an awesome idea! As a self-pubbed author who took the time and expense to make sure her book was professionally edited and critiqued, I get a bit out of sorts when I hear of those who have not and thus left a reader disappointed.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm going to sample her book.


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## Picaquill (Jan 30, 2012)

I like the idea in principle. Could there be a network of authors (perhaps established through this thread) who, like editors, offer their services to review books and endorse their quality for inclusion or otherwise? -- For a reading fee of course! Establishing such a group would be a nightmare, mind you. How do you qualify the reviewers? And what standardized criteria would they use to make decisions about the quality of the work they are reading? On second thought, perhaps its a list of qualifying authors we should be developing, not a catalogue of books that have been reviewed and which pass muster.

http://amazon.com/author/norhelmstaren


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2012)

Sooooo, let me see if I understand this correctly...

*Only "professional" editors and writers are allowed to recommend books.

*Your own "professional" qualifications are (from what I saw on your website) the fact that you are a high school teacher and avid reader. I saw nothing in regards to professional qualifications in the actual publishing industry. The other professionals are, from the information on your site...

1. A "freelance editor" whose only obvious qualifications are the ability to have a website and hang a virtual shingle offering services
2. A self-published author who doesn't list any professional qualifications in the publishing industry beyond figuring out how to self-publish
3. A self-published author who doesn't list any professional qualification in the publishing industry beyond figuring out how to self-publish
4. An author who claims to have professional credits as a ghostwriter and now self-publishes

I am really very curious how you are defining "professional." What standards are you applying when the standard applied to your own group of "experts" are rather suspect? Particularly when your promotional pitch for your website has several grammar errors and typos in it.

In all seriously, this all seems very self-serving. Like you are looking down your nose at the rest of the indie community and saying that you alone have the skill to acknowledge real talent ["I looked at reviews and discovered that a lot of the people writing them didn't seem to notice that the writing was poor or it had masses of spelling mistakes and poor grammar. " Really? Seriously? You went there?]

I'd say more, but I promised to reduce my snark levels by 33% this year.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

From Wikipedia:

A professional is a person who is paid to undertake a specialised set of tasks and to complete them for a fee. The traditional professions were doctors, lawyers, clergymen, and commissioned military officers. Today, the term is applied to estate agents, surveyors, environmental scientists, forensic scientists, educators, and many more. The term is also used in sports to differentiate amateur players from those who are paid - hence "professional footballer" and "professional golfer".

_In some cultures, *the term is used as shorthand to describe a particular social stratum of well educated, mostly salaried workers*, who enjoy considerable work autonomy, a comfortable salary, and are commonly engaged in creative and intellectually challenging work.[1][2][3][4] Less technically, it may also refer to a person having impressive competence in a particular activity.[5]_

Because of the personal and confidential nature of many professional services and thus the necessity to place a great deal of trust in them, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations.

============================

I'm quite frustrated with people who claim that all indie work is crap - except for their work and that of their friends.


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## Sean Patrick Fox (Dec 3, 2011)

K. A. Jordan said:


> I'm quite frustrated with people who claim that all indie work is crap - except for their work and that of their friends.


To be fair to the OP, I don't think she said that.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

Sean Patrick Fox said:


> To be fair to the OP, I don't think she said that.


It is implied - heavily here ***, by someone from outside the Trade Publishing industry.

■ask one of the Awesome Indies authors *** to read your book and email me at <tahlianewland (at) gmail (dot) com> if he or she considers that it fits the criteria.

=======

In actuality Trade Publishing professionals find (see the link below) a high percentage of SUPERIOR books than expected.

In Slush Pile 4: The executive summary  in this post on the Cool Main Press site - the author was to surprised find that 29 out of 100 random Indie authors had written books good enough to have been published back when Trade Publishing companies accepted slush pile manuscripts. That's 30% when 'common wisdom' says 'all Indie books are crap.'

With a number of Trade published manuscripts under his belt, Andre Jute meets the criteria of 'professional' in a way that would even satisfy our Julie.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

intinst said:


> No thanks, I'll continue to do my own picking. Who decides a writer or editor is a "professional?" Why would I choose someone else's definition?


That's a clearheaded, courageous statement. I couldn't have said it better. Congratulations.

Gatekeepers are not perfect, they keep missing great books, they are prejudiced by the flavor of the month (which is why when something is in fashion, everyone jumps on board), and they area already gatekeeping the entry of traditionally published books. The whole idea of independent publishing is to be able to discover the persons who have been missed, by a system that is corrupt and overloaded.

I think the best answer is: read the sample, trust your gut, and ask around, and if the sample or the book thereafter disappoints, never patronize that author again.


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## Neil Ostroff (Mar 25, 2011)

Hmm. Interesting in theory. All my books have been professionally edited, formatted, and have a professional cover designer. But if I'm a crappy storyteller it doesn't matter.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

intinst said:


> No thanks, I'll continue to do my own picking. Who decides a writer or editor is a "professional?" Why would I choose someone else's definition?


It's a good point, which is why I research the person making the recommendation ( it takes time). The point is that they are people who actually know about the criteria below. Many readers don't appear to pick up on these things, so if they don't bug you fine. But if they do, like me, then you'll find this list helpful. It's not designed to pick books for you, just to help you avoid the really bad books. Here are the criteria.

_An Awesome Indies book will be properly formatted, have no or few copy errors (let's face it even major publishers can't avoid one or two) and the author will be able to write good prose. Specifically, you can be sure that

the grammar, spelling and punctuation are correct.
the book is not excessively wordy, particularly, no rambling descriptions, dumps of information, unnecessary repetition or irrelevant scenes.
the characters and their dialogue and interactions with others are believable.
changes in the point of view of the writing are clear, specifically no 'head hopping.'
the author knows how to show the story rather than tell it, so that the writing is immediate and engaging._

It's not a guarantee that you will like the stories in any of these books, just that they are produced to the same standard as a non indie book.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

NogDog said:


> at least for this reader you'll have to get past the hurdle of convincing me it's not a case of indie authors promoting indie authors in yet another "you scratch my indie back, I'll scratch yours" situation.


I guess you'll have to trust me on that. I have strick rules to avoid it. Whoever recommends a book has to guarantees that they have actually read the book and that it fulfills the criteria I noted on my reply to someone above. Also authors do understand that if they have people on the list that don't deserve to be there, then the list becomes worthless for them too.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

MariaESchneider said:


> Nogdog, you are so wise.
> 
> I've actually become extremely grateful to those writers who can't bother to get the spelling or grammar right in the first 10 pages. They save me a lot of time. I delete those without any time wasted. It's the ones that hold a glimmer of promise...that go from a 5 to a 4 to 1 that send steam out my ears...


Me too.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> As you know, KindleBoards is a Kindle fan and reader forum. As you browse KindleBoards, keep in mind that *self-promotion, of any sort, is ONLY allowed in the Book Bazaar*. (You've posted your thread in the right place; this is just our standard welcome that we place in all book threads. )
> 
> Betsy & Ann
> Book Bazaar Moderators


Sorry. I didn't think of this as self promotion, the idea is to help readers. I wish someone else was doing this for me.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

HeidiHall said:


> I don't think this is a bad idea, but it would be easy to game the system if you let any author or editor make recommendations. Also, I couldn't take advantage of your listings because I'm on my fire and there's no way to hover as instructed...since I think a lot of readers shop directly from their device, you may want to make the site more tablet friendly. Will you have books from all genres or just a few? I like where you're going though and it could be a very valuable service to readers!


Sorry, I'm just doing this the simplest way possible. I don't have time to make it tablet friendly.

I don't let just any author make a suggestion either, any indie author making a suggestion is vetoed to make sure that their own work also fits the criteria, so that I know that they know what they're talking about.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

MrPLD said:


> I am curious though; if other people do enjoy them, does it make them bad? Why is their qualification less indicating than that of another?


No, it doesn't make them bad, on the contrary, they are obviously good for those who like them and it's not saying that anyone is less qualified to decide whether they like a book or not, but this list is not about personal preference.

It's about honoring the books that meet traditional writers standards for what is good writing in a technical sense. (That's why I am careful to make sure that whoever makes the recommendations do actually know what they're talking about and that the criteria is very specific). It's for people like me who get sick of reading books where the writer obviously hasn't done enough study of the craft, for example, they may be constantly telling instead of showing, which even if the story is good is just not engaging for me. I admit that others probably wouldn't even notice and that's fine for them. It's about trying to stop this idea that Indie authors work is inferior to that put out by a traditional publisher.

Note that there will be masses of Indie books who fit the criteria who are not on the list at the moment, they just aren't there because no one has recommended them yet. The author just needs to find a respected author or editor to check that they fit the criteria and let me know.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

BJMorgan said:


> Covers are an entirely different matter: "Never judge a book by its cover" <lol>
> 
> That's why covers aren't part of the criteria. The cover is obvious to everyone.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

KayBratt said:


> I rely on my twin sister, who has more reading time than I do. When she reads one she knows I'll like, she texts me and I download it! Saves me time and money.


I do that for my daughter. I wish I had someone I trust to do it for me. She doesn't always like what I do though, but we both recognise poor grammar.


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## telracs (Jul 12, 2009)

Nothing is "obvious" to everyone.  

tahlia, while I applaud your desire to be helpful, one thing you need to bear in mind is that no matter what you do some people will be happy, some people will be unhappy, and some people will just want dessert.  if this is something you find fulfilling, do it and have fun.  but realize that you will probably never satisfy everyone who looks at it.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

bxs122 said:


> I too look at reviews. Odd thing is I almost always go to the worst ones and read those first. Not sure why I do that.


I do it too, looking for comments on spelling, grammar etc, but I've had situations where no one has mentioned it and a few pages in, I discover that someone should have.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Jorja Tabu said:


> maybe separating genres on the website would be helpful?


The genres are separated and new genre listings will be added when recommendations for new genres come in.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Picaquill said:


> I like the idea in principle. Could there be a network of authors (perhaps established through this thread) who, like editors, offer their services to review books and endorse their quality for inclusion or otherwise? -- For a reading fee of course! Establishing such a group would be a nightmare, mind you. How do you qualify the reviewers? And what standardized criteria would they use to make decisions about the quality of the work they are reading? On second thought, perhaps its a list of qualifying authors we should be developing, not a catalogue of books that have been reviewed and which pass muster.
> 
> http://amazon.com/author/norhelmstaren


The criteria are listed on the site and they're very specific (even in what they don't evaluate) eg overwriting is mentioned, underwriting isn't because it is more open to personal opinion. Some readers want more info, but it's failry obvious when something is overwritten.

I agree about having a list of authors and editors who review. That would be really helpful. At present, I know few authors who review. A lot of them avoid it. I hope to find those that do by doing this. I list the people who have made recomendations on the site & those who's review has been used as recommendation. Once you're an Awesome Indie though, you can recommend others without having to have published a review because your own work has already been vetoed by the same standards.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> Sooooo, let me see if I understand this correctly...
> 
> *Only "professional" editors and writers are allowed to recommend books.
> 
> ...


Wow. I didn't know that this would arouse all this flack. First, the criteria are clear. Basically, if you can recognise those things, then you know what you're talking about. People's work is their qualification and we are talking about very specific things here. Perhaps I should take the word 'professional' out because it's a vague term as I'm applying it here (in fact I will). I don't want to cut out people who have studied writing without earning themselves a degree and whose work shows that they know their craft. I guess this is a peer reviewed thing, rather than an expert reviewed thing.

I am not setting myself up as any kind of expert, but I do know when a book doesn't meet the criteria of the list and I trust that the others who have recommended books know the same things. I expect that if you feel this way, then you'll find plenty not to like about my work, but it does fit the criteria. Which incidently have nothing to do with personal likes and dislikes.

I am not looking down at the Indie community, I am asking for those who know what those criteria mean to submit their books so I can honor that fact. I know that even amongst editors there are differences of opinion and that's why the criteria are so specific.

Also, a blog is not a book. No one has to pay to read it, so i'm not going to employ an editor to check every post. I hope that people understand that.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

K. A. Jordan said:


> From Wikipedia:
> 
> ============================
> 
> I'm quite frustrated with people who claim that all indie work is crap - except for their work and that of their friends.


Sheesh, I never said that. On the contrary, I'm trying to change that perception. I'm going to remove the word 'professional' and go for the peer review kiknd of wording to get the idea across. Okay.

You're welcome to submit your book by the way. The listing is just beginning, but there's so much flack maybe I'll delete the whole thing. The people on the list aren't my friends either. I just happened to read thier books or they were submitted to me for review.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

K. A. Jordan said:


> In actuality Trade Publishing professionals find (see the link below) a high percentage of SUPERIOR books than expected.
> 
> In Slush Pile 4: The executive summary  in this post on the Cool Main Press site - the author was to surprised find that 29 out of 100 random Indie authors had written books good enough to have been published back when Trade Publishing companies accepted slush pile manuscripts. That's 30% when 'common wisdom' says 'all Indie books are crap.'
> 
> With a number of Trade published manuscripts under his belt, Andre Jute meets the criteria of 'professional' in a way that would even satisfy our Julie.


This is really helpful. I'll read the article closely later and contact Andre. I need lots of reliable people who can make recommendations under the criteria. Thanks, I appreciate your help.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Neil Ostroff said:


> Hmm. Interesting in theory. All my books have been professionally edited, formatted, and have a professional cover designer. But if I'm a crappy storyteller it doesn't matter.


I'm not saying that it doesn't matter, just that evaluating the story telling ability is a personal thing, so I haven't included it in the criteria for this listing. Also cover design isn't one of the criteria for the same reason.


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## Andrew Ashling (Nov 15, 2010)

You forgot "no prologue," "no background story," "no passive voice."

Sorry, this is just another attempt at a "Seal of Approval."

Not for me.


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## BJMorgan (Feb 7, 2012)

Andrew Ashling said:


> You forgot "no prologue," "no background story," "no passive voice."
> 
> Sorry, this is just another attempt at a "Seal of Approval."
> 
> Not for me.


There are many ebook review sites around, and some that expect the author to pay for the privilege of being read too. I found Tahlia's approach different and refreshingly frank about the aims of her particular review site. So much so I've submitted and look forward to whatever critique comes back, even if I don't make the actual list


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> I am really very curious how you are defining "professional."


Thanks for raising these issues. I've looked at it in more detail now and have clarified things. If you want to see the revised definition of qualifications for in the reviewer and a fuller response of mine to the issues people have raised here, then follow this link. http://publishersearch.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/fallout-from-the-awesome-indies/

My aim here is not to put anyone down, just to celebrate those who deserve it. The criteria and qualifications may not come up to others standards, but at least I have defined them now.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Something else (and pardon me if someone has already brought this up, just adding my voice):

Books may be professionally written but not inspired.
Books may be inspired and out of this world, but contain a few proofreading errors
Either of the above, or truly inspired and professionally written books, may be "produced" in an unattractive manner--covers, blurbs, poor marketing--simply because the writer happens to be financially strapped and can't engage professional designers/formatting.

Just to say these distinctions do exist, and some compassion (which, according to Happy the Movie, is an important component of happiness) is called for.


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## CC Carlquist (Sep 22, 2011)

Although I always check out the sample before I buy an e-book, I think this is a great idea. The more of these kinds of listings, the better. I rarely read reviews. If I do, they're usually the 3-star reviews. Both the 5-star and the 1-star reviews seem to be lopsided. Like the person who gave a 1-star review simply because she thought the book was too short. Fortunately, somebody commented on her review pointing out that the book's description clearly stated: "Kindle short." No matter. The 1-star review stuck.


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## tahliaN (Nov 6, 2011)

BJMorgan said:


> There are many ebook review sites around, and some that expect the author to pay for the privilege of being read too. I found Tahlia's approach different and refreshingly frank about the aims of her particular review site.


Thanks for your support, a main part of the idea is that the listing is not dependant on an author having the money to pay for it. They're theer on their merit.



Andrew Ashling said:


> You forgot "no prologue," "no background story," "no passive voice."
> 
> _I've only included the most common faults that I see and also your suggestions are too restrictive. All of the above are quite acceptable. It's how they're done that is the point, not whether they are there or not._





Richardcrasta said:


> "Books may be professionally written but not inspired."
> 
> _This is not part of the specific criteria because it is too subjective, but I figure that no one will write a 5 star review or recommend a book as awesome if they don't find it inspired._
> 
> ...


_I am very aware of the distinctions and the listing is not without compassion, (eg 'few', rather than 'no' proofreading errors, and the list of requirements could have been a lot stiffer.) The aim overall is to raise the perception of Indie books in the reading community, which is good for all Indies. But also, let's have some compassion for those who write fantastic books and can't afford any kind of paid exposure (there's not much for free these days), and for those who forked out money to pay an editor to make sure that their books come up to these standards but get no credit for it. If you have *really good* beta readers who know their stuff, you could probably get away without actually paying for editing and still have a good product. Personally, I wouldn't risk it though._


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2012)

tahliaN said:


> _I am very aware of the distinctions and the listing is not without compassion, (eg 'few', rather than 'no' proofreading errors, and the list of requirements could have been a lot stiffer.) The aim overall is to raise the perception of Indie books in the reading community, which is good for all Indies. _


_

By drawing attention to the stereotype? I say it again: Indies are their own worst enemies. Whenever I read a review that says something like "And I found surprisingly few typos!" or "This book was well edited for an indie book" I cringe. I know this sort of thing is meant to be helpful, but it does the opposite. It simply attracts attention to the stereotype. It's like saying "He's so well spoken for someone living in Camden" or "She's surpisingly smart for someone who went to an inner city school." You are just drawing the reader's attention to a stereotype they may not even be aware of.

I know this is difficult for people "tuned in" to understand. But the average reader doesn't even know the difference between an indie book and a trad book unless you hold up a neon sign and tell them the book is indie. Few actually pay attention to publisher names. Ask fifty random people on the street who published Stephen King's last novel and maybe half of them know the answer.

I'm reminded of a conversation I had a while ago with a co-worker who loves my books. I introduced her to the Kindle and she, like many folks, went on a buying spree and bought up a bunch of 99 cent books because she thought it was a great deal. She didn't know they were indie books. When she was complaining to me about the poor quality of a lot of them, I told her that a lot of folks now self-publish but if you use the sample you can weed out bad books. Her reply was that instead of self-publishing "they should start a publishing company like you did."

Now think about that for a minute. I use the same tools and processes available to indies. But in her mind, I'm not a "self-publisher." I run a publishing company. Even though I do the same stuff as any other indie, in her mind I am a publisher and not a self-publisher.

And this is fairly normal for the general population. They mentally draw a line between "self-publishers" and "authors publishing their own books." And the difference is in whether or not you are holding up the neon sign attracting attention to the fact that you are self-published.

Further, by making claims that your site is only going to highlight professionally edited books within your specific guidelines, you are setting yourself up to be judged harshly as well. By drawing attention to the stereotype of poor quality among indie books, you bring it to the forefront of people's minds and they will look at YOUR BOOKS with a more critical eye. For example, while you are busy stressing typos, I'm looking at your book covers and they scream "self-published" at me. And in my mind, I'm thinking "This lady can't invest in decent cover art but is going to preach to me about editing?" The entire thing becomes a distraction from the actual content of your books._


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