# Another Sep 2014 Erotica Crackdown? Have you been hit?



## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

Since Sep 1 - I've heard of 3 or so erotica authors who've received emails from Amazon suspending their accounts due to 'content.' Some have just received warnings. Appears another September sweep is under way?

In most cases, the affected erotica was dub-con, dark, or mind control - but other categories may have been hit.

If there's already a thread about this, please list here. Otherwise, anyone else having issues?

Thanks.....


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## georgette (Sep 4, 2013)

On an erotica forum that I'm on, one of the authors just had their account suspended.

I do remember that two years ago, September-pocolypse happened, and my earnings from my erotica plummeted month after month, and I gave up writing erotica and switched to romance because of it. (It worked, by the way.) 

So, if you have books with dubcon, lactation, barely legal, etc. - any of the triggers for Amazon - your account may be at risk. You may want to consider removing them or rewriting to take out all questionable title.


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## Mysterio (Jul 31, 2013)

Here we go again. I guess Amazon is scared of smut filling up KU and bringing them negative press, so they're going to be even vaguer and harsher with the new erotica crackdown.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Mysterio said:


> Here we go again. I guess Amazon is scared of smut filling up KU and bringing them negative press, so they're going to be even vaguer and harsher with the new erotica crackdown.


^ I have the same theory as well.


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## T Hagan (May 23, 2014)

georgette said:


> So, if you have books with dubcon, lactation, barely legal, etc. - any of the triggers for Amazon - your account may be at risk. You may want to consider removing them or rewriting to take out all questionable title.


That's about 50% of the top 100 in erotica on any given day. Are they expecting vanilla to suddenly trend?


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## Victoria Champion (Jun 6, 2012)

T Hagan said:


> That's about 50% of the top 100 in erotica on any given day. Are they expecting vanilla to suddenly trend?


I hope so because mine are vanilla.

Of course though, I am against censorship. Let people read what they want as long as it's not hurting anyone else. I myself like some pretty weird stuff.


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## StraightNoChaser (Dec 29, 2013)

Every few months I entertain the notion of abandoning romance and getting back in the smut game. Today was one of those days and I was checking ranks in various genres, only to stumble upon an established erotica author with over 100 title whose author bio said amazon suspended her account yesterday. 

Yeah... I'm sticking to romance. I have a few racy titles that are borderline, and I'm thinking that I should just pull them down. You just never know when they're going to freak the hell out for no apparent reason and it seems so random. 

Though I did notice that this author changed her titles, but left the original bad terms (Breeding/Daddy) on the actual covers. I'm wondering if people who got banned were walking a very thin line.


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## bonde (Feb 12, 2014)

So... Which pen names did you hear have been hit?

I'm sure many people saw Zara got hit - looks like she was trying to push through a hypno title despite blocks from 'Zon based on her FB. Guessing that's what did it (dubious consent+repeat re-publishing after Amazon blocked an attempt).

I know of a few others that were served papers, but I don't know the entire situation around this. Were they doing something that brought the eye of Zon down on them? 

The 50,000$ question is: What were they doing that prompted the temp-ban?


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## Mysterio (Jul 31, 2013)

bonde said:


> So... Which pen names did you hear have been hit?
> 
> I'm sure many people saw Zara got hit - looks like she was trying to push through a hypno title despite blocks from 'Zon based on her FB. Guessing that's what did it (dubious consent+repeat re-publishing after Amazon blocked an attempt).
> 
> ...


As far as I know, none of the people who just got hit were republishing blocked books. This is what a few people several months ago did get banned/warned over. What Amazon's doing now is different and more than a little concerning.

It looks like they're proactively doing a sweep of dubcon related content, same as they decided to purge PI/virgin stuff last year on their own schedule (and in reaction to obnoxious blog articles).


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## bonde (Feb 12, 2014)

Zara definitely republished a blocked... She had a post up on FB last month about - if you go look at her timeline you'll see she's complaining about Amazon blocking a hypno-book, and asks her readers to help her re-name it so she can try to re-publish - then talks about how she got it back up in the store in the next post. I'm guessing repeat republishing was the cause for her temp-ban...

It's awful. Absolutely terrifyingly awful.

The two other authors I've heard about this happening to said nothing about re-publishing, but definitely had dub con. Still, it makes me wonder if they did something specific that drew Amazon's attention, or if this was just random...

Anyway, scary times. Sounds like September to me!


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

Sometimes I am tempted to try my hand at erotica, and then topics like this show up... Always makes me rethink...


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Wonder if this is related - https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1002979921&ref_=pe_445910_122737500_2


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

First of thank you EelKat for the advice. 

I have been thinking about switching to "object" covers with no human on the covers for awhile. Also, I keep my blurbs really generic. Still I'm nervous because my lactation stories have started to take off. They aren't overly crazy, but they do focus on a unique fetish that some men (and women) have. Now I'm scared to publish them. 

Also it looks like Zara is quitting the game. She's moving on it seems. 

What a wicked day today has been.


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## sngraves (Aug 10, 2014)

Mind control and hypno-books? We can't have mind control in our books? Am I understanding this correctly because mind control is a major element in my series. I've never heard of a bias against mind control before.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

It all seems to hinge on consent. Have any subjects that don't have that at the core been at issue?


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

sngraves said:


> Mind control and hypno-books? We can't have mind control in our books? Am I understanding this correctly because mind control is a major element in my series. I've never heard of a bias against mind control before.


Just looking at your titles, they seem packaged like typical Urban Fantasy works. No racy titles, weird keywords, or other "porn-like" issues. My guess is that you are in the safe zone.

This is type of crackdown is usually focused on Erotica authors. Even if your work has heavy erotic elements, it's not 'in-your-face' enough to land you in any type of trouble.


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## sngraves (Aug 10, 2014)

Vicky Foxx said:


> Just looking at your titles, they seem packaged like typical Urban Fantasy works. No racy titles, weird keywords, or other "porn-like" issues. My guess is that you are in the safe zone.
> 
> This is type of crackdown is usually focused on Erotica authors. Even if your work has heavy erotic elements, it's not 'in-your-face' enough to land you in any type of trouble.


Yay! No, this is a six book series with only two sex scenes across the whole lot. They may be graphic enough to be considered Erom, but not on the super racy end of the spectrum. I have wanted to start putting out some erotica though. Looks like I picked a bad time to dip my toes in.


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

Christa Wick said:


> Wonder if this is related - https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1002979921&ref_=pe_445910_122737500_2


I don't understand your meaning here?

(Oh, I get it now...) Are you thinking that with a new roll-out....

Actually, I'm not sure if there is anything deliberate happening yet. Other than a few isolated recent cases (CZ, who apparently tried to republish something previously banned), and rumors about what's on the new bad-list, I can't confirm there's a major new crackdown.

But if it starts happening, I hope authors post to this thread.


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

Be careful about warning people....

http://kaiabennett.com/sunday-pulled-amazon/


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## bonde (Feb 12, 2014)

Someone should warn Kaia actually - based on what I just read on her blog it sounds like she is considering changing the title etc and re-publishing this work, which is a fast-track to a temporary ban.

Bad news.


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

bonde said:


> Someone should warn Kaia actually - based on what I just read on her blog it sounds like she is considering changing the title etc and re-publishing this work, which is a fast-track to a temporary ban.
> 
> Bad news.


Do it!


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

Hey EelKat, I've a question for you! Seeing as you already know so much about Panda, Phantom and the other bots by Google. 

Do they scan all of the text in every single ebook, or do they just look at what's view able on sample pages available for anyone to see at places like Amazon?

I'm asking just out of curiosity. These bots sound both amazing and terrifying.

I actually had a very sexual scene within the first ten pages of my first novella that I took out last week because I read somewhere else that Kobo doesn't allow explicit sexual themes in free books (my first one will be made free). I had no idea that Amazon will pull books that have it visible on the sample pages as well. At least now I know what to do when I finally get around to writing some erotica stories. =)


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

Puzzle said:


> Hey EelKat, I've a question for you! Seeing as you already know so much about Panda, Phantom and the other bots by Google.
> 
> Do they scan all of the text in every single ebook, or do they just look at what's view able on sample pages available for anyone to see at places like Amazon?
> 
> ...


About how many pages are included in the 'sample/look inside?' Some erotica shorts are very short.


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

JullesBurn said:


> About how many pages are included in the 'sample/look inside?' Some erotica shorts are very short.


I think it's either 10 pages, or 10%, I can't remember which.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

JullesBurn said:


> Be careful about warning people....
> 
> http://kaiabennett.com/sunday-pulled-amazon/


Yes I know a few authors who've also been dinged for posting "Warnings" and then an explanation of the content. None of them had their accounts permanently closed, and seemed to be fine after taking the warning down.

From reading her post, she also used the words "dubious consent". Dubcon of any kind seems to be something to steer clear of right now. In her shoes, I'd take the scene out completely and steer away from anything (no matter how mild) that smacked of dubious consent.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

EelKat said:


> Unfortunately, as soon as Panda finds these spammy keyword stuffed books, they notify Amazon "The following pages are violating our AdSence ToS" (Google sends this notice out to ALL webmasters every 90 days - because I'm good at NOT keyword stuffing, every notice I've gotten from Panda has read "Congratulation, we did not find any AdSence ToS violation on any page of you domain -----.com". ) Well, as soon as Amazon gets that email from Google, they lash out fast at every offending book page, and then, look at whatever the "hot topic" keywords were, and start checking all of them. Then everybody gets hit by a massive "Erotica Sweep". and that's why you see these sweeps happen every February/March and again every September/October - it's because Panda is cleaning Google's index and Amazon is trying to stay off the blacklist.


First, Amazon isn't part of Adsense AT ALL. Second, I am, and I've never gotten such an email from Google, and I've never even heard of such notices until this. Third, those product pages aren't going to get Amazon blocked. Amazon is an extraordinarily good Page Rank site. Google's not going to ding it for a crappy erotica blurb.


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## John Van Stry (May 25, 2011)

Mysterio said:


> Here we go again. I guess Amazon is scared of smut filling up KU and bringing them negative press, so they're going to be even vaguer and harsher with the new erotica crackdown.


No, I bet its not that at all. Certain people, from certain parts of the world, oppose any and all erotica rather fiercely. Mostly because they come from very structured countries and grew up in rather (what we would call) provincial settings. 
The person running Paypal is one of these and when he found out people were using paypal to pay for erotica he blew a gasket.
However in the end he got put in his place because the parent company of paypal makes A LOT OF MONEY selling erotica and porn and sextoys. So he had to back down or they would have fired him.

I suspect the same thing is going on at Amazon, that someone is hiring people solely from where they grew up, people that hold the same mindset, and that they're slowly forcing it on the rest of us. Seen it before in the SW industry, it is in fact rather persuasive. Again I'm sure they're only applying it to indies. This is why you're better off moving your erotica to B&N or Smashwords, where no one really cares.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Non-indies don't often publish PI or dubcon.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2014)

does it ever end with these people?

Went through and adjusted my blurbs. but my keywords are what they are. so well see. i have had no trouble after learning amazons instant adult filtering. It just seems like they WANT to make it harder on people.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

There's NO indication that the actual content of stories is what Amazon is cracking down on. It's all about the presentation. All Amazon want to avoid is another Daily Mail article about the TIDES OF FILTH ON KINDLE. This is the run-up to the busiest time of year for them - they don't want to risk any bad publicity that'll affect their bottom line.

Keywords aren't visible, and I've never seen any proof that Amazon will block a book based on keywords. The theory about Google's bots sounds like speculation at best, and more like complete fiction to me.

Also, there's a line to be carefully trodden when you're thinking about your covers and blurbs with erotica. If you make them too sanitised and tame, nobody is going to buy your book. If you come on too strong, Amazon are going to come down on you.

However, think about what your readers are looking for when they search for erotica. They want a sexy story, so sell one to them within the bounds of what we know about Amazon's rules. (I admit Amazon don't make this easy, but we have enough information now to reliably predict what will and won't get blocked and/or filtered.)


This time around, Amazon seem to be coming down on Dubious Consent stuff, mind-control, that sort of thing. Basically stuff that could plausibly be described as 'rape porn' to someone looking to write a juicy clickbait headline. Personally, I've just unpublished everything that could possibly fall under that description. I'll lose a little income in the short term, but better that than lose my account.

I don't think it's helpful to speculate on Google's killer bots or Amazon's secret hatred of indies/erotica/sex/whatever. Work with what you know, don't panic, BUT If in doubt, play it safe.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2014)

i sanitized my blurbs and titles and covers. Going to let it ride from here on out. There is no way amazon can read every book, and there is no way a bot can comprehend what is going on, just keywords and strings of words are what they look for.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

bardeh said:


> There's NO indication that the actual content of stories is what Amazon is cracking down on. It's all about the presentation. All Amazon want to avoid is another Daily Mail article about the TIDES OF FILTH ON KINDLE. This is the run-up to the busiest time of year for them - they don't want to risk any bad publicity that'll affect their bottom line.
> 
> Keywords aren't visible, and I've never seen any proof that Amazon will block a book based on keywords. The theory about Google's bots sounds like speculation at best, and more like complete fiction to me.
> 
> Also, there's a line to be carefully trodden when you're thinking about your covers and blurbs with erotica. If you make them too sanitised and tame, nobody is going to buy your book. If you come on too strong, Amazon are going to come down on you.


I've seen no evidence that Amazon is cracking down on keywords. However, they are however most definitely cracking down on erotic hypnosis, dubcon, and mind control stories. That's not hearsay, it's happening to people and is being discussed in various forums.

I do think the advice about keeping covers and blurbs tasteful is sound. I started sanitizing my covers today. My covers were never very racy to begin with. But rather than risk more trouble, I'm playing it safe. Amazon already nabbed blocked two stories this year, and I cannot risk a third. Most of my stuff is tame by comparison to what others put out - and I still got warning emails.

I'm not touching my keywords however. I've never, ever had an issue with Amazon about keywords.

I'm pretty sure if they hit me a third time this year, my account will locked. Can't risk that at all.


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## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

I've never read erotica or ventured into that section of Amazon. Are there any controls in place to prevent a twelve year old with a Kindle and a gift card from downloading it? If not, perhaps they just don't want the strong stuff on their site where kids could get a hold of it.


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

From a private online group of a few thousand active writers, we've found that these authors in question were writing borderline racy content, like dubious consent or hypnosis. Both of which are interpreted as rape by Amazon, and are a no-no.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

Vicky Foxx said:


> I've seen no evidence that Amazon is cracking down on keywords. However, they are however most definitely cracking down on erotic hypnosis, dubcon, and mind control stories. That's not hearsay, it's happening to people and is being discussed in various forums.


I know. I said that right after the part that you quoted. 

I guess the point that I was making is that they find the stuff they block by looking at the titles and descriptions. I very much doubt they are looking at the actual content of any books.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

bardeh said:


> I know. I said that right after the part that you quoted.
> 
> I guess the point that I was making is that they find the stuff they block by looking at the titles and descriptions. I very much doubt they are looking at the actual content of any books.


Oh jeesh sorry. It's getting late and I need to just let this all go. I've gotten dizzy hopping from forum to forum... and trying to control my panic attack. LOL. In the end, not much that can be done. Amazon is pretty much the only viable game in town these days. Do as they say.. and try not to get on the wrong side of the censors. That's pretty much all that can be done.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2014)

> "From a private online group of a few thousand active writers, we've found that these authors in question were writing borderline racy content, like dubious consent or hypnosis. Both of which are interpreted as rape by Amazon, and are a no-no."


Yes, that may be the case... but what did amazon use to determine this? Seems like it was the blurb / look inside / title.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

ʬ said:


> Non-indies don't often publish PI or dubcon.


Dubcon is the oldest romance trope that ever troped.



vlmain said:


> I've never read erotica or ventured into that section of Amazon. Are there any controls in place to prevent a twelve year old with a Kindle and a gift card from downloading it? If not, perhaps they just don't want the strong stuff on their site where kids could get a hold of it.


That's why you can bring up dozens of back issues of Hustler and Playboy (and even Playgirl), complete with racy covers that would get a book filtered out of general search. Because they're so worried about the children.  It's okay for mags with raunchy gynecological photo spreads to show up, but don't let the women's fantasy_ fiction_ in there.

This isn't about protecting kids. Never was, never will be. This is about satisfying a certain portion of the customer base who complains about things they don't like, and would LOVE to dictate to women what they should and shouldn't be reading. I have yet to see any compelling evidence to the contrary.

Amazon doesn't really care what you publish as long as it's in a plain-brown wrapper and nobody complains (despite claims to the contrary in this thread, nobody is seriously reading your stuff, they don't have enough employees to do that job). But if you're open about what it is, and it's on that list of things good girls aren't supposed to like because it's bad, off you go.


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

shelleyo1 said:


> Dubcon is the oldest romance trope that ever troped.


That was also my thought. If Amazon is really going after dubcon, they'd have to delete whole swathes of romance fiction.


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

exkitteh said:


> ...their parents.


+1 all over that.



> (I believe there is a way to opt in to see adult content when searching, stuff that's got put in the dungeon, but I may be wrong I'm sure other will know)


Nope! You're not even clearly told you're not seeing erotic stuff that's filtered. There's a little link, but it's not obvious. You just have to know to search in Books or Kindle, not the general search where it doesn't show up.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I had a number of titles hit in the erotic crackdown last September. It was all PI stuff. I rewrote all of it, turning it into a friend of the family, a neighbor, etc. I redid all the covers (still have two titles to do). All my covers are clean now, the "dirtiest" being clenched hands on a bed with no bodies. They do okay. I'm not risking my account. I know people try to slip stuff through, but my "real" books do too much business to risk my account. The market for erotica is huge. Since KU, I've seen a decent number of borrows on my backlist. I'm considering writing more. I will not risk the raunchy covers and my blurbs are really bland now. It takes longer for people to find them, but I think when people do -- it's like I can almost see them going through my whole catalog. Since it only takes me a couple of hours to do the writing and cover, I'm still debating. I'm in the middle of a new book for my most popular series (paranormal mystery, stop-at-the-door sex) right now, so I won't make my decision until I'm done with that. I get the problem with dub con. I don't get the problem with lactation or barely legal. Legal is legal. I started having sex at fourteen, I don't get the freakout. I also don't get people downloading erotica and then complaining about it. They wouldn't have found specific titles unless they were looking for it. I've also seen people bragging about slipping incest and PI through the censors. I don't understand why they do that.


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## Kia Zi Shiru (Feb 7, 2011)

YodaRead said:


> Legal is legal. I started having sex at fourteen, I don't get the freakout.


Barely-legal by US standards is legal-for-a-couple-of-years in many other countries anyway...
Though, then you get depiction of sex with minors (when they're below 1 this is illegal, but the sex itself isn't "barely-legal" for most countries... ( According to wikipedia, in most of the world the age of consent is between 14 and 16)


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

StraightNoChaser said:


> Every few months I entertain the notion of abandoning romance and getting back in the smut game. Today was one of those days and I was checking ranks in various genres, only to stumble upon an established erotica author with over 100 title whose author bio said amazon suspended her account yesterday.
> 
> Yeah... I'm sticking to romance. I have a few racy titles that are borderline, and I'm thinking that I should just pull them down. You just never know when they're going to freak the hell out for no apparent reason and it seems so random.
> 
> Though I did notice that this author changed her titles, but left the original bad terms (Breeding/Daddy) on the actual covers. I'm wondering if people who got banned were walking a very thin line.


The problem is, what's a thin line. Where do you draw it? BDSM? Menage? Anything but over the clothes action?


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## AisFor (Jul 24, 2014)

EelKat said:


> *NOTHING explicit in the keywords.* The keywords result in the book being placed in:
> 
> Books > Gay & Lesbian > Literature & Fiction > Fiction > Gay
> Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Horror > Dark Fantasy
> ...


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## iheartwords (Jun 12, 2013)

YodaRead said:


> I've also seen people bragging about slipping incest and PI through the censors. I don't understand why they do that.


PI is allowed on Amazon, incest is not.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

iheartwords said:


> PI is allowed on Amazon, incest is not.


It's supposed to be, but I had a PI book blocked once and the title and cover were very tame. I still don't know what I did wrong. They don't tell you.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Kia Zi Shiru said:


> Though, then you get depiction of sex with minors (when they're below 1 this is illegal


That isn't even the case. It usually has to be pornographic, not just erotic. Which is why "Lolita" is still being sold.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

CoraBuhlert said:


> That was also my thought. If Amazon is really going after dubcon, they'd have to delete whole swathes of romance fiction.


If Amazon ever touched any of those Romances, they would have to face the burning torches and pitchforks of some really angry women. The thing is those books may have racy parts, but they are disguised behind plain covers and tame descriptions.

As far as PI goes. it's a no-no in my book. I only ever had 2 PI stories. One was a Erotic Fairy tale based on Hansel & Gretel and the other a M/M romance. Both got banned. I pleaded with Amazon to tell specifically what was wrong. They refused. That's where I get really annoyed, they won't give you specifics.

The Hansel & Gretel retelling the protagonists were both of age, and "fosterlings' meaning the were not blood related. I went through great pains to define them as un-related. It was on Amazon for three years, and got blocked last month . Best I can figure is someone complained. Since the sex content part was fairly tame (no kink), I can only assume the issue was PI.

I don't' touch anything remotely Taboo now. Also, I'm not seeing any evidence that mild bdsm, lactation, and other kinks are being blocked. It really does seem to be about dub-con right now. I just republished a lactation story and it went through fine. Again, tame cover, title, and blurb.


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

georgette said:


> On an erotica forum that I'm on, one of the authors just had their account suspended.
> 
> I do remember that two years ago, September-pocolypse happened, and my earnings from my erotica plummeted month after month, and I gave up writing erotica and switched to romance because of it. (It worked, by the way.)
> 
> So, if you have books with dubcon, lactation, barely legal, etc. - any of the triggers for Amazon - your account may be at risk. You may want to consider removing them or rewriting to take out all questionable title.


Excuse my ignorance but what's Dubcon?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

CoraBuhlert said:


> That was also my thought. If Amazon is really going after dubcon, they'd have to delete whole swathes of romance fiction.


It's only erotica they're targeting. Other genres can do whatever they want.

And unless something's changed, PI is allowed. I had PI books blocked a year ago because of their titles and blurbs, but once I cleaned up those two things (leaving the actual text of the book unchanged), the books were reinstated. You can have PI in the story, you just can't explicitly inform the reader it's in there.

I'm not sure if this latest dubcon purge is the same thing. Are they actually banning dubcon, or are they saying you can't mention it in the title or blurb? I've pulled two of my titles that could fall into that category.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

deedawning said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what's Dubcon?


Dubious consent.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

deedawning said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what's Dubcon?


Dubious Consent, or what used be called "bodice rippers" back in the Dame Barbara Cartland days. Basically a story where the heroine has lots of non-consensual sex, which later becomes consensual.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

vlmain said:


> Are there any controls in place to prevent a twelve year old with a Kindle and a gift card from downloading it?


Last time I checked, they were called "parents." Perhaps the code is outdated?


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Ariana said:


> How do you find out that your book is in all these categories - just by manual search?


Also sent you a PM, but for others who may not know:

You go to the book's page and scroll down to almost the very bottom where in bright orange letters, you'll find a header that says:

Look for Similar Items by Category

Those are all the categories your book appears in. A little guide on KDP will help you figure out how to get your book into certain categories. Start here:

https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A200PDGPEIQX41

Then scroll down to the genre links and click the genre you want and it will take you to a list of categories in that genre and they keywords you need to use. This is a 1+2 process: you have to select the category in your book's dashboard as one of your two allowed categories, and then include the required word as one of your keywords in the keyword field.

Also, little known fact, when you make a best seller or hot new release list on Amazon, it only shows up to 3 lists (your best list rankings generally). You could be on 6 lists, but you wouldn't know without manually reviewing the other category lists your book could be on.


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## VEwoodlake (Jul 11, 2014)

Why would Cassandra Zara, who must be making 5 figures a month, risk her account to push through a hypno short story that had already been rejected?


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## NoahPorter (Sep 15, 2013)

VEwoodlake said:


> Why would Cassandra Zara, who must be making 5 figures a month, risk her account to push through a hypno short story that had already been rejected?


After reading her Facebook page, that is what I was wondering as well. Wouldn't it be better to just let that one story go, chalk it up to experience, and move on to the next, while preserving your (presumably) large source of income?


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

This why I think Amazon is so HYPOCRITICAL. Found is ALL DEPARTMENTS: 1-16 of 14,263 results for "adult toys for sex"


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## Dormouse (Nov 10, 2012)

deedawning said:


> This why I think Amazon is so HYPOCRITICAL. Found is ALL DEPARTMENTS: 1-16 of 14,263 results for "adult toys for sex"


The are more than hypocritical. Put in gangbang in the general serach and then look at the DVD (movies and TV) section. The covers alone will floor you (Warning NSFW!!!!!)


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2014)

deedawning said:


> This why I think Amazon is so HYPOCRITICAL. Found is ALL DEPARTMENTS: 1-16 of 14,263 results for "adult toys for sex"


But those are "marital aids." Dirty literature might poison the minds of the children.


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

I've got a lot of books where I advertise menages. Is that a problem? 

Dee


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

genrehopper said:


> But those are "marital aids." Dirty literature might poison the minds of the children.


Marital aids. Good one. Does your wife watch while you have sex with a blow up doll. LOL


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

deedawning said:


> Does your wife watch while you have sex with a blow up doll. LOL


Only if she comes home unexpectedly.


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

AlixNowarra said:


> The are more than hypocritical. Put in gangbang in the general serach and then look at the DVD section. The covers alone will floor you (Warning NSFW!!!!!)


I didn't find DVD so I selected Movies and TV.   

Even actual sex acts _right there_ for the main images! And we get dinged for... *written* fictional characters (all of legal consenting age, mind you). LMFAO. This is unreal.

ETA: But I do see that most of them have a 'Currently Unavailable' tag. Still...those images though.


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## Dormouse (Nov 10, 2012)

MsTee said:


> I didn't find DVD so I selected Movies and TV.
> 
> Even actual sex acts _right there_ for the main images! And we get dinged for... *written* fictional characters (all of legal consenting age, mind you). LMFAO. This is unreal.


I know. Breast and erect cocks in full display. And they crack down on the covers for written stories.


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## bardeh (Nov 3, 2013)

What on earth?! Amazon will allow DVD covers with (multiple!) uncensored erect penises, but my erotica can't have a woman holding her hands over her breasts?


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

bardeh said:


> What on earth?! Amazon will allow DVD covers with (multiple!) uncensored erect penises, but my erotica can't have a woman holding her hands over her breasts?


I know they really have a thing about erotica. It's certainly not balanced. Erotica writers or writers in general may have to join a union.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

bardeh said:


> What on earth?! Amazon will allow DVD covers with (multiple!) uncensored erect penises, but my erotica can't have a woman holding her hands over her breasts?


Only for indies and small press. If one of the Big 5 that isn't Hechette put out a breast-holding cover tomorrow, it'd be only Amazon's front page a minute later.

Because we are dancing monkeys.

Their excuse is that indies (reallly the scammers they should be rooting out) try and game the system by adding inappropriate categories et al, but it's their fault for only giving us two BS categories instead of full BISAC and not having an adult filter.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

deedawning said:


> I've got a lot of books where I advertise menages. Is that a problem?
> 
> Dee


I write menage and have never had a problem, but my covers and blurbs are clean.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2014)

Since I have been searching for some stories recently, I have found page after page of erotica that was in the wrong category. 
Perhaps that is why they are doing it? why their rules are what they are for books and not for dvds? Because some authors try to game the system and put their books in different categories to try and get them higher in the lists. 
Heck I have seen several books that recommend you do that. The problem is, if you are looking for a young adult book and your keywords match ones used by some idiot author with a load of sex on the front cover and blurb... the parents will be pissed, Amazon gets bad publicity and they dont want that. Easier to weed out stuff that is likely to cause offence.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Wouldn't be a problem if they didn't make you do the Keyword Dance to get appropriate categories.


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## nellgoddin (Jul 23, 2014)

Ok, this is weird. I only have a handful of erotica titles, nothing remotely taboo or even borderline. I went in this morning to change up the categories/keywords to take out erotica, and...the titles went live again, but the categories stayed the same. I made some small changes to the descriptions, and those went through. Also a title that had never been marked as erotica--changes to the categories for that title went through.

But it looks like if anything has ever been marked as erotica, it can't be changed. Anyone else?


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

Hard to believe the lactation market has been milked to death...


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## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

nellgoddin said:


> Ok, this is weird. I only have a handful of erotica titles, nothing remotely taboo or even borderline. I went in this morning to change up the categories/keywords to take out erotica, and...the titles went live again, but the categories stayed the same. I made some small changes to the descriptions, and those went through. Also a title that had never been marked as erotica--changes to the categories for that title went through.
> 
> But it looks like if anything has ever been marked as erotica, it can't be changed. Anyone else?


You have to email them. Once the scarlet letter is on there, you need someone on the inside to remove it.


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## Andie (Jan 24, 2014)

Once you put something in erotica, you can't generally get it out on your own, exkitteh. You have to email. It's a pain, because it'll pop back into erotica anytime you update anything for that book in the dashboard and you have to email and pray every time you ask them to pull it out. At least, that has been my experience.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

Well as far as it seems, this purge was fairly mild. Compared to some of the other ones, that have happened over the years. I will say this. Most erotica and "spicy romance" authors are very conscientious about what we publish. None of us want kids reading our work. I also know that quite a few writers have written Amazon and asked for a simple "age check" w/warning to be implemented.

Of course it's never happened.

So little Johnny and Susie can buy all the porn dvd's and erotica that they want. But when there's a blow up.. they go for the Erotica writers. We're an easy bunch to blame. Also, the presence of those d*mned spammers/get-rich-quick schemers doesn't help.

As for why someone would resubmit a book after a block. Amazon pretty much tells you that you can. It says so right in the e-mail they send upon a block.



> If you wish to re-publish your book with content that meets our guidelines, it will need to be submitted as an entirely new ASIN and go through our standard review process. Previous customer reviews, tags, and sales rank information are not transferable because the title will essentially be a different product.


Of course people do this and beg the Amazon rep to give them specific details on what to remove. Good luck with that. They won't give specifics. So you have no idea if it's the blurb, the content, the cover, etc...

If you resubmit too many times.. oops sorry your Amazon account is now locked. It's a very frustrating cycle. They should remove the advice to resubmit from the email. It just leads to more frustration and worsens the situation.

Can you tell I'm frustrated? Three years of dealing with regular purges like this - can really make it feel like erotica's no longer worth the trouble. You never know what the new rules will be. But again, they are slowly becoming the only game in town. Which means the 'Zon gets to set the rules.


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## nellgoddin (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks LisaGloria. I emailed, fingers crossed. Now at least I understand why one title was selling and the others ones not at all.


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## Nicole Dixon (Aug 13, 2014)

Amazon is a private business and can censor as they please but the hypocrisy is evident. I looked up dildos and got many photographs on Amazon. I searched Porn DVD and was presented with DVD images of


Spoiler



erect penis' being pleasured by semi naked women.


 Yet some have expressed concern over the hand bra on my cover. Ridiculous. I've dulled down my summaries to avoid unwanted attention but it's a real sham. If consenting adults wish to get their rocks off with the written word instead of graphic images to each his own.








By the way, I cropped this so It would be less revealing. The cover is not as good as it once was, but maybe a little more PG.


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## maggie2 (Feb 26, 2012)

vlmain said:


> I've never read erotica or ventured into that section of Amazon. Are there any controls in place to prevent a twelve year old with a Kindle and a gift card from downloading it? If not, perhaps they just don't want the strong stuff on their site where kids could get a hold of it.


Can I ask what kinds of keywords they allow you to use? If you don't want to share then I do understand.
Thanks
Marg


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## bonde (Feb 12, 2014)

Amazon's been pretty clear about the "hand bra" rule in Erotica for awhile - I mean, they don't outright tell you it's an issue, but we figured out it was a block-trigger quite a long time ago. You've gotta be careful not to show too much skin on an erotica cover, or it will draw their block hammer. Avoid obvious trigger words and don't give them a reason to find fault in your cover, and you'll have little or no issues publishing book after book without a single problem.

Ultimately, writing erotica on Amazon is a bit like digging for gold in an active minefield. There's gold in that hill, and it's REALLY easy to stake a claim up there (because not that many people are interested in digging for gold in a minefield). Unfortunately, quite a few people ended up digging in the wrong place and... BOOM. Over time, their efforts (both success and failure) have helped us more or less map the field, and as long as you're careful and stick to your map, you PROBABLY won't get a leg blown off...

Unfortunately, there's always the chance Amazon will climb the hill and bury a few new land mines up there. You'll wake up the next morning and take a step that was previously COMPLETELY SAFE, and that little practiced move could end up leaving YOU crippled or dead. Even the best map and a careful step might not be enough to avoid this. And when you inevitably make that misstep, the rest of us will pull out our maps, draw in the newly found landline, and we'll do our best to make sense of it all. Your death won't be in vain, but I doubt you're going to be any happier about that...

Pull it off successfully and you can make a decent living on that hill, but you'd better never get too comfortable up there. Sooner or later, you're probably going to take a fateful step.

If you don't like that, stop digging for gold in a minefield! There's a really nice fancy playground over here (full of nifty toys/genres to play with) that ISN'T littered with land mines. Sure, there's pretty big lines waiting to ride on any of the REALLY Good playground equipment, but if you work hard you can cut in line and enjoy those awesome swings or the monkey bars...

And they MIGHT even allow hand bras .


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## Alleycat (May 2, 2014)

I only had three up and I just hit Unpublish. They've been up since 2012 and I've made less than $100. I'm about to publish some mainstream romance novels and I just don't even want to take the chance.

So, I'm cool now, right? "Unpublished" is the same as "gone" to Amazon, even though they're still technically in my dashboard?


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## Shelley K (Sep 19, 2011)

They don't filter the DVDs, because the audience for visual porn is generally believed to be male. Who reads written erotic material? Generally women. And women are generally the ones that will complain about the things they've been taught are inappropriate, because society has trained so many of us so well. 

Think about the correlation between sales and the purge. Everything Amazon suppresses also happens to sell magnificently well. There's an audience out there eager for all of this stuff. In fact, it's generally when a subgenre really gets hot that the hammer comes down.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

shelleyo1 said:


> Generally women. And women are generally the ones that will complain about the things they've been taught are inappropriate, because society has trained so many of us so well.


I wouldn't say the audience of erotica are those who complain. I'm not sure there is even anyone who complains. This might be entirely preemptive.

That said, some of the most tasteless and horrid covers I ever had the misfortune to slap an eye on were erotica covers. Most look like cheap 70ies porn VCR jackets.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Nic said:


> I wouldn't say the audience of erotica are those who complain. I'm not sure there is even anyone who complains. This might be entirely preemptive.


Of course they complain. Have your read some of the reviews?

People like their erotica the way they like it, and if it deviates too much from what they like, or what they're expecting, they seem to take it personally. It wouldn't make sense that they're complaining in the reviews but not taking their complaints directly to Amazon. And it would be logical that the more extreme stuff gets most of the complaints.

For example, non-consensual is sub-genre with a lot of fans, and a lot of them are women. But on the other hand, many women get really upset by that kind of thing, even if it's just a fantasy in a book. So while these women may enjoy erotica, if they run into something like that, they're going to complain. And a few years ago Amazon listened to their complaints and made noncon off limits to erotica writers.

I agree with the person who said that Amazon doesn't read every book, checking for violations. But I'm positive they do rely on reader feedback, and if enough readers complain about a book, then they set their crosshairs on it.

So, when it comes to content, the real line we have to walk as authors is to try to make it racy enough to stand out, without p*ssing off too many readers. Because that's when Amazon takes notice. And that's getting harder to do when we can't use the blurbs to explain exactly what's inside.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Alleycat said:


> I only had three up and I just hit Unpublish. They've been up since 2012 and I've made less than $100. I'm about to publish some mainstream romance novels and I just don't even want to take the chance.
> 
> So, I'm cool now, right? "Unpublished" is the same as "gone" to Amazon, even though they're still technically in my dashboard?


Your probably safe, but one of the authors whose account was recently suspended was given a list of the offending books by KDP, and one of them was a title that had been unpublished several months ago.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

When last they did this, I wasn't (and never have been) banned, but I did receive naughty notices on books that had been unpublished for over a year. These same books moved to the top of my dashboard and went from unpublished to blocked. I never bothered trying to republish them because my erotic romance makes too much to risk a temporary or full ban.


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## Nicole Dixon (Aug 13, 2014)

It's not that I'm obsessed with hand bras, I'm highlighting the hypocrisy of the erotica gestapo.  Some covers do look like porn tapes from the 80's, mine doesn't.

I agree it is a gold dig with land mines.  I used that same analogy the other day.  To be free of the big publishing houses has allowed some great stories to see the light of day. 

I enjoy writing erotica.  It sells well.  I enjoy that people want to read it.  That is the true pleasure of writing.  I could write a horror novel that will not get banned and no one buys.  What a waste of time.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

swolf said:


> Of course they complain. Have your read some of the reviews?


I don't think a bad review or rating necessarily or even logically means that a reader from the intended audience complained.


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## nellgoddin (Jul 23, 2014)

Update. I emailed yesterday asking to re-categorize two titles out of erotica. Got a confusing email back. It said that the keywords were keeping the titles in erotica, and that if I used romance keywords instead of erotica keywords, I could update and the category changes would go through.

OK, fine. But she gave as examples of erotica keywords, words that are also romance keywords. lol. There's overlap, of course!

I redid the keywords and took out the erotica-only words but left in the erotica-and-romance words. I'll let you know if that works.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Nic said:


> I don't think a bad review or rating necessarily or even logically means that a reader from the intended audience complained.


I'm talking about complaints within the reviews. I get complaints because I have 18-year-old characters, accusing me of writing about 'kids' having sex. Complaints because I have a stepsister calling her stepbrother 'brother' at certain intimate moments. Complaints about the 'gross' topic I'm writing about.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

swolf said:


> I'm talking about complaints within the reviews. I get complaints because I have 18-year-old characters, accusing me of writing about 'kids' having sex. Complaints because I have a stepsister calling her stepbrother 'brother' at certain intimate moments. Complaints about the 'gross' topic I'm writing about.


Do you think anyone reads these reviews? I'd say that's even less likely than Amazon reading the books themselves.

I still think the most likely area from where these complaints originate are people who do NOT read erotica.


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

katrina46 said:


> I write menage and have never had a problem, but my covers and blurbs are clean.


But you do point out the book is about a threesome or as they say in Rome, polyamory?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Nic said:


> Do you think anyone reads these reviews? I'd say that's even less likely than Amazon reading the books themselves.





swolf said:


> It wouldn't make sense that they're complaining in the reviews but not taking their complaints directly to Amazon.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Whenever and wherever I look in on erotica readers discussing erotica and censorship, there is a pretty much universal distaste of censorship. So, if 100% of the erotica readers (of very diverse erotica) I encounter state that they never would want ANY erotica to be censored, then I don't think these people are hypocritical.

I think a lot of the complaints most likely come from non-erotica-readers. Or trolls. Possibly even competitors.


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

Nic said:


> Whenever and wherever I look in on erotica readers discussing erotica and censorship, there is a pretty much universal distaste of censorship. So, if 100% of the erotica readers (of very diverse erotica) I encounter state that they never would want ANY erotica to be censored, then I don't think these people are hypocritical.
> 
> I think a lot of the complaints most likely come from non-erotica-readers. Or trolls. Possibly even competitors.


True. There are people who set out to antagonize and bask in the 'power' of destroying something. Some encounter the erotica works they find 'disgusting' purely by accident and some intentionally seek it so they could complain.

I read a lot of erotica and erotic romance. I'm fully aware of the many diverse kinks that exists, and while I admit I find some of these kinks way beyond my tastes, I'm a 'live and let live' type of person. I think if you're into erotica, you generally adapt that sort of attitude. Though I can agree with swolf too. I have seen instances of erotica readers denigrating a kink they find disgusting. I think that's why the phrase YKINMKATO (Your Kink Is Not My Kink And That's OK) was born.

All this to say: we just can never know what truly puts your book under Amazon's scrutiny (and banhammer). There are so many arbitrary factors and this situation is made worse by Amazon's refusal to be clear about what they will and will not accept.

But I've been wondering, if dubcon is now the new thing being targeted, what about monster erotica? Any news on that? That's sort of dubcon. The character initially starts out with 'I don't think I like this!' then eventually becomes, 'Holy cow! This. Is. AMAZEBALLS!'


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

MsTee said:


> True. There are people who set out to antagonize and bask in the 'power' of destroying something. Some encounter the erotica works they find 'disgusting' purely by accident and some intentionally seek it so they could complain.
> 
> I read a lot of erotica and erotic romance. I'm fully aware of the many diverse kinks that exists, and while I admit I find some of these kinks way beyond my tastes, I'm a 'live and let live' type of person. I think if you're into erotica, you generally adapt that sort of attitude. Though I can agree with swolf too. I have seen instances of erotica readers denigrating a kink they find disgusting. I think that's why the phrase YKINMKATO (Your Kink Is Not My Kink And That's OK) was born.
> 
> ...


Speak for yourself Monster-Erotica-wise - my character goes into it with eager anticipation and an open mind as well as open legs.


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## SomethingElse (May 29, 2014)

JullesBurn said:


> Speak for yourself Monster-Erotica-wise - my character goes into it with eager anticipation and an open mind as well as open legs.


My characters do too. They seek it out like an adventure. In my scifi series they volunteered to be recruited for "experiments".


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

SerenaBiggs said:


> My characters do too. They seek it out like an adventure. In my scifi series they volunteered to be recruited for "experiments".


I've read quite a bit of monster-erotica where the mc's are not in anyway dubconned. That doesn't mean they might not cry at various points from unexpected size issues... etc.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

In the past - much of the crackdowns were usually caused by "Internet Marketers" looking to get rich quick. They also categorized their racy books into very inappropriate categories (like children's books), had over the top covers (sometimes with full nudity), and titles that would make a sailor blush. Of course this caused crackdowns on several websites - with one business opting to kick all self-published authors out entirely.

Reference: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/16/entertainment/la-et-jc-pornographic-self-published-ebooks-trouble-for-amazon-and-kobo-20131016

It was easy to spot the "get-rich-quick-warrior-forum" type of writer, because they are so freaking over the top. While I hate laying blame, I know I'm not alone in this sentiment. These guys go way too far - and everyone else pays for it. Meaning honest writers, who try their best to follow the rules, sometimes find themselves in trouble.

I'm also sadly seeing lots of long time erotica writers - moving on to long form romance. They are unpublishing their erotica titles and doing their d*mnedest to distance themselves from it. This is something new - which I haven't' seen before.

I can't afford to do that yet. But if I can get my mainstream romance to ever take off.. I just might.


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## ChadMck (Feb 25, 2011)

What scares me the most is the account suspensions. I've heard of books being blocked and have come to accept that as a part of the game, but account suspensions sound permanent. If Amazon suspends the account is there any way to ever get it back or are you forever banned from publishing through Amazon?


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

JullesBurn said:


> Speak for yourself Monster-Erotica-wise - my character goes into it with eager anticipation and an open mind as well as open legs.


Lol I've read a few like that. But I guess it speaks volumes about my reading tastes when I like the dubcon types more...


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## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

All this hand wringing is edifying, but we should do something about it. Is Selena Kitt's Excitica website still in the works? It's been six months since she told me she hoped to be live the end of March. I haven't heard boo since. Has anyone else? I was going to list all my erotic stuff there and pull the dungeon stuff from Amazon. If it's no longer viable, we ought to think about doing it ourselves.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

deedawning said:


> But you do point out the book is about a threesome or as they say in Rome, polyamory?


Actually, I don't point it out blatantly. I'm currently writing a series about one particular couple. In the blurb I might say the The new maid wasn't hired for her housekeeping skills. Very subtle stuff. My covers are conceptual. They show very little skin. Readers aren't stupid. If they are shopping in the erotica category and you give enough hints, they get it and you are far less likely to wind up on Amazon's radar.


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

deedawning said:


> All this hand wringing is edifying, but we should do something about it. Is Selena Kitt's Excitica website still in the works? It's been six months since she told me she hoped to be live the end of March. I haven't heard boo since. Has anyone else? I was going to list all my erotic stuff there and pull the dungeon stuff from Amazon. If it's no longer viable, we ought to think about doing it ourselves.


I write for Excessica. Excitica is still temporarily down, but you can publish taboo on her other site Eden, which is actually mainly compiled of stories that have been banned on Amazon during the last purge. That's where I'm sending most of my taboo. I recently had a taboo story she thought would be okay with Amazon but would get the adult filter. I said forget it. I'll just put it on Eden, Smashwords and Barnes and Nobles. Why even mess with Amazon and risk it. I'd just publish strictly with Excessica if it weren't for their release dates filling up so quickly. The story I'm working on now can't be released on Excessica until the end of December, so I'm releasing directly onto Amazon myself just because I have promos for the other books in the series, so I can't wait that long to release the next installment.


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## Jay Walken (Feb 7, 2013)

Even though I doubt my stories fall within any of the taboo categories, I have just made the blurbs far less explicit in KDP and republished. (In my recent experience, making changes in Author Central did not change the blurbs; the KDP blurbs seem to have priority.)  I am hoping this helps.

As for covers: Would a cover with a single sexy woman (some skin, but not any more revealing than some New York women in summer) pose a problem?

Added: Are we headed towards a Victorian era when it was taboo to say "chicken breast" at a dining table, and had to refer to a certain chicken part as "the part that flies over the chicken fence last"? 

Also, one of my literature professors explained, tongue-in-cheek, that "erotica" referred to writing that turned you on by describing your particular sex kink, while pornography referred to writing that explored OTHER people's sex turn-ons.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Kia Zi Shiru said:


> Sometimes I am tempted to try my hand at erotica, and then topics like this show up... Always makes me rethink...


I guess the question is... Where is the line? 50 shades of grey isn't banned, even though people would like to see it banned for bad writing lol.

I mean obviously some erotica is allowed, but where is the line? ( is regular straight up sex and bondage ok ) but all dark stuff prohibited?


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

deedawning said:


> I know they really have a thing about erotica. It's certainly not balanced. Erotica writers or writers in general may have to join a union.


Not sure if this is the case though, i mean let's face it. They have an erotica category. If they were against it, they would remove the entire category including the famous 50 shades.

I think they just want to avoid two things:

1. Really crazy hardcore, or bordering on illegal content in books
2. Titles, covers and descriptions which are bordering on soft porn or indicate that the content may fall into #1

They know what erotica is, but maybe they are cleaning up shop. Reigning in people who have got out of control on their website. Obviously at the end of the day it is there site and they have rules. I don't like rules at the best of times but if I want to earn a living from writing, I will fly within them. If these means avoiding dubious stuff, dubious covers, dubious descriptions, keywords etc Then so be it.

As for the person who said that Amazon is filled with gangbang stuff, i looked it up. It appears they have hit those folks and those titles are unavailable. They will likely remove the covers soon.


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

kalel said:


> As for the person who said that Amazon is filled with gangbang stuff, i looked it up. It appears they have hit those folks and those titles are unavailable. They will likely remove the covers soon.


I see absolutely no evidence of this. As far as I can tell gangbang is alive and well. There are over 100 pages of search results on Amazon for search word "gangbang"

Where do you 'look it up?' How did you draw the conclusion that these titles are unavailable? Are you making a blanket statement about 'gangbang' erotica in general, or is there some specific examples that were taken down because of bad covers (that I missed in the thread?)


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

JullesBurn said:


> I see absolutely no evidence of this. As far as I can tell gangbang is alive and well. There are over 100 pages of search results on Amazon for search word "gangbang"
> 
> Where do you 'look it up?' How did you draw the conclusion that these titles are unavailable? Are you making a blanket statement about 'gangbang' erotica in general, or is there some specific examples that were taken down because of bad covers (that I missed in the thread?)


Went to amazon.
Typed Gangbang dvds
got this url http://amzn.to/1q2vT48
clicked on a few of the dvds. It said unavailable beside each of them
alternatively you can go to amazon, type the same thing in, select movies and tv and same again


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## Navigator (Jul 9, 2014)

kalel, I think JullesBurn was under the impression you were referring to gangbang books, not movies.

I just checked the kindle books with that keyword and it's alive and thriving.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2014)

JullesBurn said:


> I see absolutely no evidence of this. As far as I can tell gangbang is alive and well. There are over 100 pages of search results on Amazon for search word "gangbang"
> 
> Where do you 'look it up?' How did you draw the conclusion that these titles are unavailable? Are you making a blanket statement about 'gangbang' erotica in general, or is there some specific examples that were taken down because of bad covers (that I missed in the thread?)


I just searched in Kindle store > gangbang and got 5,806 results. There is a new gangbang title in the top 100 erotica charts everyday. Gangbang is alive and kicking.


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

kalel said:


> Went to amazon.
> Typed Gangbang dvds
> got this url http://amzn.to/1q2vT48
> clicked on a few of the dvds. It said unavailable beside each of them
> alternatively you can go to amazon, type the same thing in, select movies and tv and same again


Very interesting. I got the same results. All Movie dvd Gangbang titles currently unavailable. And if it's due to the covers, it's strange those didn't go down first. (love the one with 5 c$$ks and a woman's face)

If they are cracking down on 'so-called' porn in DVD's and using Gangbang to find them, I would be concerned that erotica titles might be next - but I hope not. Writing one as we speak...


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

This happened to me recently. I had a forward in one of my horror books about how some of my stuff had been banned from other sites. So Amazon took it down. So I removed that forward and they still took it down. I've since re-written my blurb, did a whole new cover and removed the word 'rape" from any part of the book and replaced it with toned down words without changing any of the scenes. Its horror, so there is rape, but its not titillating at all, its pretty awful. 

Though I'm half afraid to resubmit it at this point since its been rejected twice. I have 9 other book on there selling well. I'm scared of my account getting shut down.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2014)

horrordude1973 said:


> This happened to me recently. I had a forward in one of my horror books about how some of my stuff had been banned from other sites. So Amazon took it down. So I removed that forward and they still took it down. I've since re-written my blurb, did a whole new cover and removed the word 'rape" from any part of the book and replaced it with toned down words without changing any of the scenes. Its horror, so there is rape, but its not titillating at all, its pretty awful.
> 
> Though I'm half afraid to resubmit it at this point since its been rejected twice. I have 9 other book on there selling well. I'm scared of my account getting shut down.


It might be better to try other vendors rather than risk your whole account, or that dreaded suspension, followed by a seven-day review period for anything you submit subsequently.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

I tried other vendors and couldn't even get any views there. I re-did the cover, changed wording through the book changed the blurb, added a longer intro.

I mean shit, I hope they are ok with it. Not like they can't see I'm trying to be compliant.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Horror
Change the title too
Do everything you can to tell the bots, "this is not the same book you blocked twice".


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

I didn't change the title, a few others had said not to or they'd think I'm trying to "sneak" it in instead of making it compliant. 

I read Eelkat's post and took note of all those things and tried to do all  of that in the new blurb, adding the longer intro and changing the cover.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

If they know enough to think you are sneaking it in, they know it is the same book, right? Well they have already blocked it twice, and recently blocked it. If you were them, what would do when it came through the 3rd time?

I respect that people are trying to help you, but you need people who have the multiple block t-shirts. The people you need to ask about this are people who frequently get their books blocked. That is not horror or any other genre authors but erotica authors. Erotica authors know blocks. So I've gotta ask if the people advising against a title change were erotica writers who survived all the porncalypses episodes on Amazon or people who write horror, have rape scenes, and haven't dealt with a great deal of book blocks? 

I'm telling ya, I've done this for years now, I've survived every porncalypse by playing smart with books that have had issues, and you need to change the title so the bots will see it as a new book instead of viewing it as the same book that has already been blocked twice.
Seriously, think about the logic they are telling you with keeping the title the same. It contradicts itself. They are saying change everything about the book, essentially "sneaking it through" so Amazon doesn't recognize it and thus it doesn't have the same problems again, but also not touching the number one way they will detect it is the same. Because Amazon has said twice that they don't want it because of it was presented incorrectly twice before, they are not going to say, "Oh, new cover and blurb? Alright, it is different now". You will not get it through with the "this is a book you have already blocked twice. It doesn't have issues, I promise" approach. You will not. Ask any erotica author that has had one book blocked twice. 
Do not take any risks with a book that has already been blocked twice, and very recently. You need to add it as a new title with everything about it different sans the author name . 

Using the same title is nothing but saying, "hey, it's back for number 3" and if you walk away with your account after a 3 blocks close together, you will be very lucky. Take the safe route and sell it as a new book, ie add to your bookshelf as a "New Title"
Also don't publish it on the weekend. You never put a blocked book back through during the weekend, it doesn't stand a chance. Wait for mid-week to publish it and give them a completely "New Title". ( and by "New Title", I don't just mean adding it as a "New Title". I mean the whole gamut, even changing up the keywords or at least the order of them. Do not put anything at all that even suggests the rape in the keywords ) 

I'm really worried you might risk your account by following some very bad advice.
New. Title.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

Well I already resubmitted it so there isn't much I can do now  

It was earlier in this thread I saw someone mention not to change the title. I was trying to go back and find it. I don't know what else to do. The book had been up for a year and already known by that title. I may as well have not even tried to put it back up if that is the case. I don't know. I been sick to my stomach over this for days.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

On the weekend too...
I'm pulling for you. It's GOING to make it through.
It's going to all work out.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

it just went live..but last time it was live the whole day...in the middle of hte week too and they pulled it late at night.

and yes, I spoke to Erotica authors, some of whom had their books banned before. Most gave me different answers. One said she didn't change anything, just waited a week or two and re-subbed it, others said they had it back up in a day or two from just changing the blurb. So i don't know. This is so arbitrary and I hate we have to rely so much on them.

and I'm out of xanax


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Horror
Please post the link
I've dealt with a lot of blocked books. I'm debating if unpublishing it yourself, changing the title, and then submitting it again as a "new Title" might be the best thing to do. ( yeah it will clog your bookshelf but after it comes down, just put ZZZ in front of the title and it will display last when you alphabetize your bookshelf ) 
My concern is that book is "marked" and if you ever need to put it through review again, something might be triggered that makes the bots realize it is the same book that was blocked twice. This can also happen when it is up and the bots do their roaming of the site. In fact that might be what happened the last time.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

here you go

http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Texas-Tim-Miller-ebook/dp/B00NREHDKG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1411265694&sr=8-3&keywords=hell+texas+tim+miller


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

The listing is completely clean. It's up to you if you want to take it down, do the new title thing, and relist it. If you did, you could title it, "Hell, Texas - Welcome to the land of nightmares" or "Welcome to the Land of Nightmares, Hell, Texas". I suggest that because it works with your cover and because Amazon bots recognize things bu using 4 words. 

However before you even think of that, lemme ask you this. When you experienced the up-for-a-day block, did you have anything at all - in the blurb or the keywords - that referenced either the rape or any type of sexual torture?
Was it completely clean like it is now when the up-for-a-day block occurred?


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

It was completely clean with the old cover and old blurb:

is here:

http://timmiller.org/2014/01/15/hell-texas-now-available/

People speculated the phrases like "Sadistic" and "personal amusement" and stuff like that might have triggered something. So I toned the blurb way down and completely removed the word "rape" from anywhere in the book.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

Oh last time I linked it to my amazon author page. I haven't done that yet this time. Was going to give it a few days. But if I change the title, you think that would work? Hell Texas: Welcome to the town of Nightmares

something like that?

Oh for key words I think I may have had like torture or soemthing like that.


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## Kirkee (Apr 2, 2014)

Horrordude: Strong cover, especially the blue skull. Powerful.    (Where'd you find that thing?)
Engaging blurb. Storyline sounds like a winner. 

RE: Books being deep-sixed. One of mine got buried recently. I never got a heads-up, either. Discovered it on my own, by accident. Well, changed the cover & blurb––and it's back up. I hope they're happy with the new look, etc.

Best,

K


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Now I know what it was
It was you including "sadistic"
If it is there at all, in any of the keywords, dump that word now


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Horror
You know, that is exactly what I was going to suggest as a new title. ( Hell Texas: Welcome to the town of Nightmares )
In fact, having the word "nightmare" in the title might amount to some nice algo dust sprinkling down on you. I'm sure people search nightmare when they are searching for horror. I think I would lean on putting it back up as a new title with that title. It helps with the 4 word searching bots too, ie the bots find things are the same by comparing 4 word phrases to each other so that new title would make it pretty tough for the bots to say, "Hey, isn't this that book we blocked twice?"
I think when you consider there are even additional benefits besides avoiding another block - potential keyword in the title algo dust - I would go for it

By the way, the presentation looks great. Nice cover and all that jazz


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

If I was going to do it - change the title - I'd unpublish it and do it as a "New Title"
That way you have completely changed everything.
It isn't that much work and it really makes you a lot safer.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Pretty soon every book published will only have one keyword phrase, "Pretty, pink ponies and lucky, red unicorns". They'll be limited to that and only that because who knows what Amazon will do when they consider that everyone knows green M&Ms supposedly make people horny, 50 SoG included sex, and some idiot said the purple teletubby was gay.  

I wouldn't do the 18 thingie. I think it is a future path to the adult dungeon ( unless of course you think your book is strictly adult reading )


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

With that cover, I don't think you need to worry about a woman buying it for her 12 year old. It is plain as day horror so if someone does that, IMO that is on them much more than it could ever be on you.
The book is obviously not a kid's or MG book. I personally would not worry about that. I just wouldn't.

However keep in mind I don't write horror so I am not going to be the best to answer that. I'd go without it to begin with and ask other horror writers what they are doing with books with scenes similar to yours.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Will do
Hope it does great


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2014)

Someone said:


> Using the same title is nothing but saying, "hey, it's back for number 3" and if you walk away with your account after a 3 blocks close together, you will be very lucky. Take the safe route and sell it as a new book, ie add to your bookshelf as a "New Title"
> *Also don't publish it on the weekend. You never put a blocked book back through during the weekend, it doesn't stand a chance. Wait for mid-week to publish it and give them a completely "New Title". *( and by "New Title", I don't just mean adding it as a "New Title". I mean the whole gamut, even changing up the keywords or at least the order of them. Do not put anything at all that even suggests the rape in the keywords )
> 
> I'm really worried you might risk your account by following some very bad advice.
> New. Title.


I'm intrigued. What is the reasoning behind avoiding the weekend submission? I bow to your obvious expertise. I'm just curious what's different on weekends? Thanks.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Tunskit
There are a few reviewers who work on the weekends who are infamous in the erotica world. For example, if you say the name Carlos to an erotica author, make sure you duck first. I think back on the stories people would come up about how they would use a name for a certain type of character and I truly laugh out loud.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

I'm not so sure horrordude was hit by automatic bots reacting to keywords or blurb. It may be that an actual reader or buyer is reporting his books for content instead.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

I don't think so Nic. He had a block after just being live for less than a day and Amazon is not that quick to respond to a reader complaint. That's the bots.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

He may have been on a list already.


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## dirtiestdevil (Aug 20, 2014)

Drew Smith said:


> Can I ask something I'm genuinely curious about? If I'm understanding you right, this book has been banned/blocked twice already. I know I've read from a couple of Erotica writers who were blocked twice and tried uploading it a third time with tweaks only to have it banned the third time. Wouldn't be a big deal except according to them when you get the same book blocked the third time that's it -- game over. Both of these guys had their entire accounts banned for life.
> 
> So basically they can no longer publish on Amazon. And for most of us, if you lose Amazon that's it your career is over. So what I'm wondering is why anybody would take that kind of chance over one book? I know I'm probably just being uber-conservative, but my response would be to kill the book and live to write another day.
> 
> What am I missing?


Nothing. That is the intelligent thing to do. Banned once? Uh oh... Banned twice for the same book? Holy shit I'd better stop! Banned thrice?! Common sense went out the window...

A blocked/banned book is a DEAD book. Don't fuck around with it.

And to those wondering -- Cassandra Zara just published another new book... if you're a top tier author, you get some extra wiggle room... Amazon likes their money too


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## travelinged (Apr 6, 2014)

horrordude1973 said:


> I don't know, this thread is the first I've heard of lifetime bans.
> 
> So I don't know, I put it back up last night with a new cover, new title and several other changes made.
> 
> ...


Put it up on Smashwords and make sure it is in Oyster, which is doing well for erotica


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## dirtiestdevil (Aug 20, 2014)

horrordude1973 said:


> So going forward....I'm working on a pretty extreme book right now. Should I avoid amazon all together with it? Or just do the things mentioned earlier and have vague keywords, blurbs and such. I was going to have a model on the cover, but not sure I want to do that now.


Keywords are fine to go as filthy as you want. What you need to do is disguise the content. Think of it like an r-rated movie showing previews on tv. It has to be acceptable for 'all ages' to see there. Don't show the bad stuff on tv public... just allude to it. You're a writer, aren't you? Come up with a new phrasing -- same for your title and nudey covers.

Amazon will also ban if you continue trying to send through the same material they have previously blocked. By that, I mean just the genre/subject matter. So are your books TOO EXTREME to be on amazon? Or you just used over the top descriptions when trying to upload?


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

> I honestly think it comes back to when I pulled it from select and tried to put it on iBooks who banned it outright. Then people made a big commotion, so my wife suggested putting a forward in it saying it had been Banned from Apple and Kobo, we thought that would be good marketing.
> 
> Well a couple days after I updated it with that on there, Amazon bans it. Then they re-banned it. So all I can think was had I just left it like it was it would have been fine. Lesson learned I guess.
> 
> That said, I just now removed it, and republished it with the new title and as a whole new book.


Okay. Somehow I missed this history.
Now there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it needs to go up with the appearance of being a totally new book.
Do the title thing for sure.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Drew
I would completely agree with you IF the book had objectionable content. But what I am getting, and I may be understanding the situation wrong, is that the author made a mistake by focusing on one scene in an extreme horror novel and everything snowballed from there.
He has said the rape is not for purposes of titillation but somehow the snowball got away from him and the next thing he knows is he has a snow boulder at the end of the hill. 
Is that correct Horror?


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

IF the content is truly not objectionable - ie it is a horror book with a scene in it that many horror books have - leave it up. Currently you are in a bot war, you will win the argument when the right eyes see the situation.
However if the book is a sexual horror book, then no. That is objectionable content.

How this happened is the author mentioned the rape and mentioned sadistic via keywords, blurb or both.
BDSM stands for Bondage, Discipline ( which is the bigger word for domination and submission also used by some in the acronym ), Sadism, and Masochism
So when his book went through, because of the rape and sadism being keyworded, it was classified as BDSM book with the BDSM kink in the book being sadism. Along with rape for titillation, Amazon doesn't allow books which focus on the S kink of BDSM - sadism - so they blocked it. They really went after the sadism books when some authors tried to get snuff books up, ie very extreme S.

If my understanding is correct, the issue arose not from the book itself, but how it was incorrectly classified via author mistakes.


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## dirtiestdevil (Aug 20, 2014)

horrordude1973 said:


> yeah pretty much. I tried to put it on Kobo and Apple through draft to digital and they both banned it. They said due to there being rape scenes.
> 
> So I wrote a forward in the book saying how it had been banned due to rape scenes from other outlets. Since it had been on amazon for so long, I figured no big deal. Well days after I upload it with the forward, they ban it.
> 
> So I removed the forward and they ban it again. So here we are. I did the new title thing, but still took it back down this morning just to be safe.


You're prodding the tiger awful hard with that stick... I'm honestly surprised you haven't been at least temp banned by now. Amazon is very peculiar when it comes to rape... if your book is a 'romance' then it's perfectly fine. They have books on there with one girl being raped 20+ times by as many men. It's a best seller. If you write it in erotica... good luck! You need to learn the game before you try to break the rules, or you'll be thrown out of the stadium entirely.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

> Keywords are fine to go as filthy as you want.


That is absolutely not true
I'll give you some keywords and you try to get a book up with them.
Keywords are the FIRST scan a book goes through in review. If something pops or it is classified as erotica, they then look at cover.

Are people understanding the book we are talking about, horrordude's book, is NOT erotica?
It is an extreme horror with a rape scene that the author screwed up by mentioning it via keywords, blurb, and/or both.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

> So I wrote a forward in the book saying how it had been banned due to rape scenes from other outlets. Since it had been on amazon for so long, I figured no big deal. Well days after I upload it with the forward, they ban it.


THIS is exactly what caused the initial ban on Amazon
The bots scan for certain keywords and if you have them, you have some trouble. Amazon adds new words into what the bots scan for all the time. I've had books up for years that all of the sudden have been blocked for this very reason.
This is a typical day for an erotica author.

This book is not being banned for content. This book is being banned for mistakes done by the author.


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## Someone (Dec 30, 2011)

Horror - sent you a PM. I missed putting a subject on it so I don't know if it will be obvious it is there.

You know, it's the crux of this issue that bothers me so. So many people, who were not about offering books for people to read but instead were after a quick buck, created this situation we have now. Authors will present a book that contains the same things as many other books but because of keywords, they run into this. 
It's the inconsistency as well as frequent hypocrisy we see from other authors that grate me so. Besides it actually sending a worse message tell me, when it comes to allowable content and objectionable content, what is the difference of a woman eventually falling in love with her rapist and a couple role playing a rape fantasy? The sexual content in a bodice ripper romance is the same as an erotic role play and both are done to titillate the reader. No still means no and in the later case, it isn't even a true no. But because in one instance it is okay and in another it is not, how is an author supposed to decide what side of the case their content falls in?   

Shouldn't the rules apply regardless of trope, category, author name, etc? Yes they should, but as we all know that is far from how it works. How it really works is the author who writes one too many non-consent in role-playing but actually consenting scene loses their account but the author writing about the serial rape becomes featured and placed on on the best seller lists. It isn't because the later case is disguise or because of a HEA or HFN. The books with the rape-until-she-likes-it trope as easy to pick out as dog training books are and an erotic rape-her-until-she-likes-it book can include a HEA or HFN too.  

Look for a rape-her-until-she-likes-it romance books. Not hard to find one, isn'[t it? So it isn't that Amazon can't identify them; they are well aware of what books include the rape-her-until-she-likes-it trope. Flowing dress on the cover of a historical romance? Probable yes for rape-her-until-she-likes-it. Point being, the objectionable content doesn't change just because the heroine has a flowing dress on the cover and the trope is popular and old but the treatment of it sure does.  

Worse, then you have this case. Horrordude's case. His issues aren't due to content but instead due to mistakes he made. His book is being labeled as a sexual sadism book and it isn't a sexual sadism book. It all just kinda grates me, you know?

Thanks for letting me vent.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

He writes sexual horror. All the "horrific" behaviour centres on sexual functions, rape and sexual biology. It's not as if


Spoiler



someone just walked over to a person and plucked their eyeball out and ate it while they watched with the other, which would be basic gore. No, he writes about raped women who get skinned and raped some more, or shock collars on men forced to commit distasteful sexual acts.


 That means sexual horror or horror erotica. Just to be saying it: snuff isn't BDSM. Instead it is sexual horror or horror erotica, just like this here.

I think those snuff writers ran afoul on trying to push their books into the BDSM genre on Amazon at the time. Here I think dude's problem is that he openly boasted with that he had been banned by other retailers and used the relevant keywords and mentioned it in the blurb. There are other self-published authors out there who write this directly in the romance and erotica genres and don't get banned. So it's really not the topic, it's how the books are advertised.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

horrordude1973 said:


> The book is horror I mean,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Horror? That's what I think of as torture porn, like Hostel, etc.


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

That's because tortureporn belongs to the "we don't want it here as you can guess all on your own, so hide it well"-books.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Nic said:


> That's because tortureporn belongs to the "we don't want it here as you can guess all on your own, so hide it well"-books.


The problem with that strategy is that you're one irate reader away from having it brought to Amazon's attention. And if you've had books blocked before, you're risking a perma-ban.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

thats why I list my books under horror. Within a day or two is shows up under "also bought" by writers like Edward Lee and jack Ketchum who write very similar stuff if not worse than mine. Plus my covers are usually creepy enough (but no nudity) that there is no way anyone who looks at it will think its anything other than horror. Sounds like I just need to keep the descriptions more vague and keep any of the good stuff out of the first 10-15 pages.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

horrordude1973 said:


> thats why I list my books under horror. Within a day or two is shows up under "also bought" by writers like Edward Lee and jack Ketchum who write very similar stuff if not worse than mine. Plus my covers are usually creepy enough (but no nudity) that there is no way anyone who looks at it will think its anything other than horror. Sounds like I just need to keep the descriptions more vague and keep any of the good stuff out of the first 10-15 pages.


One of the benefits of erotica is that there's built-in promotion. Readers come looking for it by the droves. If there's nothing external about your book that says it's erotica, then they aren't going to find it.

It's a Catch-22 situation. The stuff that pushes the limits sells better, but it's also the stuff that gets you into trouble. So the more you attempt to let potential readers know what's in there, the more of a target of Amazon you become. And the less you attempt to let potential readers know what's in there, the less money you make.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

yeah its a tricky line. I have a few horror sites who really like my stuff and htey have big followings, so I know they've sent a lot of people my way to amazon. The "also bought" is great too. People go there looking for Edward Lee who is a legend in the Extreme genre and there's my books listed next to his.


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

Your book sounds like horror, extreme horror and if I was looking for an erotica book and found that, I wouldn't be happy  But you say you have it in the horror section, which is where it should be, I think. Amazon might think that because there is sexual content, that it is erotica. But even despite the sexual content, the book is still horror, not erotica.


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## callan (Feb 29, 2012)

Eelkat, that was a fascinating essay.

Even those of us who draw the curtains in our sex scenes can benefit from it.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

yeah Annette, I think it was due to my description and then intro about Apple banning it that got me in trouble. 

Its like the movie I Spit on Your Grave. The main girl is naked almost the whole film and gang raped the first 20 min or so...yet it is NOT erotica at all lol


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## Annette_g (Nov 27, 2012)

horrordude1973 said:


> yeah Annette, I think it was due to my description and then intro about Apple banning it that got me in trouble.
> 
> Its like the movie I Spit on Your Grave. The main girl is naked almost the whole film and gang raped the first 20 min or so...yet it is NOT erotica at all lol


Yes, sex scenes do not equal erotica or romance, it all depends on the context I suppose.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

Perhaps the key is "very popular" I mean, I suppose if someone is selling 100,000 books or more, amazon might give them more wiggle room.

You'd think Amazon would WANT you to put disclaimers on there for graphic content. But people can't just pass it by. THey see that and they have to complain even if they have no intention of buying the book.


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## horrordude1973 (Sep 20, 2014)

Ok, I have NO idea what happened, how or why, but I just got an email from Amazon that Hell, Texas is back up for sale under the original ASIN. Just out of the blue. Said "thank you for your inquiry regarding Hell, Texas. Your book is now live in the Kindle store." So I guess they won't close my account since they are the ones who put it back up. I was gonna just leave it lol


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## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

Annegirl said:


> question about blurbs: I know there's one very popular author who has language and swearing in her blurb but her book is not in the erotica category despite having enough going on her blurb to suggest that her male pov romance is explicit. she does have a disclosure for 18+ readers though? I thought it was interesting considering all of this adult dungeon and banning stuff I've seen over the past year.


Which author? Can you provide a link?


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## Miss Tarheel (Jul 18, 2014)

I haven't been hit, thank goodness. But hey, I just started publishing erotica last Wednesday and my sales have skyrocketed from a few every other week, to multiple sales a day. I'm not exactly keen on stopping now.


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## Nihilist (Aug 9, 2013)

swolf said:


> Only if she comes home unexpectedly.


I was reading the thread and this made me giggle.


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## Amber Rose (Jul 25, 2014)

The Office Wife seems to break the "no hand-bra" rule, and not only has it not been dungeoned, but has a 1,600 rank, and is number 7 in the short reads category (which is how I came across it). http://www.amazon.com/OFFICE-WIFE-MIMI-WILDE-ebook/dp/B00LB9SAVA/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1412057932&sr=1-1&keywords=office+wife


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## Nihilist (Aug 9, 2013)

Amber Rose said:


> The Office Wife seems to break the "no hand-bra" rule, and not only has it not been dungeoned, but has a 1,600 rank, and is number 7 in the short reads category (which is how I came across it). http://www.amazon.com/OFFICE-WIFE-MIMI-WILDE-ebook/dp/B00LB9SAVA/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1412057932&sr=1-1&keywords=office+wife


Some slip through. Just like any mention of "Step" gets a book blocked, yet there's a book called "My Bikini Clad Squealing StepDaughter" in the top 100 free erotica right now. They'll get culled, give it time. (And she's got her arms over her chest, too.)

Think of it like the lottery. Are you the one winner? Or one of the hundreds of thousands or even millions who bought a ticket and lost? Problem is, the "winner" will lose anyway, eventually when the bots sweep titles.


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