# How come fictional characters can never be allowed to use the bathroom?



## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm working on my fantasy book and its early morning and I want her to sit at the table in the kitchen and take a nip of whiskey or scotch or whatever I'll think of but first she has a full bladder from the night before so she needs to pee.

And then I thought, well, wait a second. With few rare exceptions, nobody in fiction ever uses the toilet. And if this comes up for you while working a story doesn't it strike you as somewhat odd that that's un unspoken rule?
Thats goofy

They can have sex and swear and steal and cheat and vomit and all manner of disgusting habits humans partake in but not once do they use the stupid toilet.
Isnt that weird?
And of course a few of you can feel free to reveal some examples I may not have read but still...... at the moment I really can't think of any novel or short story
( aside from a recent one where Stephen King had a guy wind up being trapped in a porta potty) where during the course of that story they stop what they are doing and take a dump or let go their water or however the writer chose to describe it.

It just feels unnatural to me to force myself to ignore the natural function of a full bladder for my character and finish the scene without the poor character being able to do what- in her world in the pages-- is a perfectly natural thing to do.

And I don't mean being gratuitous about it or feature it once or twice each day we see this character during the course of the timeline of the story but once or twice in this novel I am working on it'd be nice to have a line or two where she waddles off stage to say.... "ahhhhhhhh."   And then return to the story and move forward.

Or am I over thinking every little detail?
How have YOU solved this?


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

"How have YOU solved this?"

By having them go to the bathroom if it has some relevance to the plot or adds some flavor text.  Seriously, it's your book.  I doubt a passing reference to using the toilet is going to flush you in the eyes of the critics.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

I've noticed this, too, and made it a point of having my characters need to go when least convenient.

Sometimes, bathrooms are important focal points for some of my characters. I think I tend to write in bodily functions whenever nature calls in real life.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Mine have been know to although they only p*ss and not... the other.  

In face one of my favorite little scenes in A Kingdom's Cost is when he goes outside and takes a p*ss. I found it strangely amusing. And yes, I more or less described it including his shaking off the last drop. It just fit perfectly. *snort chuckle*

He stands there doing what he needs to do while thinking about the castle in the distance that he is going to attack.

Writing can be really strange sometimes.


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## Blerch (Oct 17, 2013)

Well, do you want to read about every bit of a character's life? When there's a break in action, or time passes, I can't say I miss that footnote saying "Joe Bob pee'd three times during this break. Good for him, he's keeping hydrated!" 

That being said, if it adds to the character or story (maybe the main male character always pees sitting down due to a medical condition?), I'd consider adding something like that. But, as long as the charactrer is human, I think it's assumed he takes care of his biological functions...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

She got up, went to the bathroom did her morning thing, turned on her computer then went to the kitchen to make coffee.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I got into that with my Space Opera. Seeing how people have to pee even in space. 
It was part of a scene, though, where the heroine is locked up for hours and complains about having to go.


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

The trick is, it has to be relevant to the plot.

Characters having sex shoulder either a) reveal something about the characters or b) advance the plot... pretty much always the rule for fiction. For as much as I love writing about sex, I nixed a huge scene in my last book because it didn't advance the plot, and opted instead to "fade to black" with panties in the grass. The reader already shared the emotional moment once, and if it wasn't bringing something new to the table, it ultimately didn't belong there.

I try to be as realistic as possible--if I have people locked in small spaces for days at a time, I make sure to mention the inclusion of a toilet in the cell.

If my characters are eating, I make sure what they're eating and the WAY they eat it will enhance the reader's image of that character (I use a lot of action tags).

I've written (vaguely) about a chick perioding, but only because it was DIRECTLY RELATED to something HUGE in the plot.

My next book is going to have an epic dump scene... but it's 100% intrinsic to the plot. I swear to god.   Story could not advance without it!

I think it's important to be real and go there. Wherever "real" and "there" is for you... as long as it serves the story.

The reason nobody writes about every single time a person had to pee during the day is because it isn't interesting... unless, you make it interesting and make it have something to do with the story. Like if what they drank the night before was truly epic... is it worth a mention? It's your story. As someone who reads, though, I hope for it to be interesting... in general.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

I assume most people don't include them in their books because, they don't advance the plot. 
Writers don't mention _every_ detail of the grooming routine either, but it's your book, you should do what you want.


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## SarahCarter (Nov 8, 2012)

I have one of my characters "doing his business". The story follows him from waking up, to going into work. So it'd be kind of weird if he didn't go to the toilet!


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## Hugh Howey (Feb 11, 2012)

I make my characters go all the time, precisely because this admission annoys me.

Same with eating. Characters never eat. They are rarely sick. It's almost never raining. And characters have nothing in their pockets, practically ever.

Most characters seem not to have jobs or family. All they have is a plot that needs pushing forward. It's so cliche that it gets distracting.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Mine do.

In the book I'm working on right now the two MCs are traveling and they just stopped to get gas and use the bathroom, later on when they get to their destination, the girl heads for the bathroom.

My characters know what to do when they run out of dialogue...........


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## brendajcarlton (Sep 29, 2012)

What I really want to know is how these women can be captured, hide in the jungle, run from the bad guys, march to battle, etc., and somehow their legs are always perfectly shaved and there is nothing untoward growing out of their armpits.


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## Gone 9/21/18 (Dec 11, 2008)

I think you're wrong. A good many mysteries and thrillers mention it if the delay, search for restroom, vulnerability, etc., figure into the story. I've mentioned it in romances and have seen other authors do the same.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

brie.mcgill said:


> The trick is, it has to be relevant to the plot.
> 
> Characters _[performing some action]_ shoulder either a) reveal something about the characters or b) advance the plot... pretty much always the rule for fiction.


(italics mine)

Pretty much this. IMO.

Bathroom scenes, sex, cursing, etc. IMO all fall under that rule.

As with all "rules" break as you see best of course.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I have deleted this post as I do not consent to the new Terms of Service that Vertical Scope are attempting to retrospectively apply to our content.  I am forced to manually replace my content as, at time of editing, their representative has instructed moderators not to delete posts or accounts when users request it, and Vertical Scope have implied that they will deal with account deletion requests by anonymising accounts, which would leave personally identifying information in my posts.

I joined under the previous ownership and have posted over the years under different Terms of Service.  I do not consent to my name, content, or intellectual properties being used by Vertical Scope or any other entity that they sell or licence my data to.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Frank,
You have me curious.  What types of books do you read?


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

I have bathroom scenes when they make sense for the plot. And while there is less peeing in fiction than in reality, I do see occasional bathroom scenes in novels. For example, George R.R. Martin and Simon Green both have characters needing a bathroom or relieving themselves into unspoiled nature.


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## johnlmonk (Jul 24, 2013)

In my book, the main character comes back from the dead by possessing the bodies of other people.  Once, just after possessing someone, he went to the bathroom, looked down and said, "Not too shabby."


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## TempleStorm (Feb 27, 2013)

Diana Gabaldon writes this into her storyline. 'Course she also writes about leeches and lancing boils in her time travel literature.   

TS


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, if you really want to see it done over and over again, you can search for "Private Fountains Volume 3," which has never been price-matched on Amazon, but is free on all the other sites. (It's just peeing, not pooping, if you must know.)


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

1001nightspress said:


> Well, if you really want to see it done over and over again, you can search for "Private Fountains Volume 3," which has never been price-matched on Amazon, but is free on all the other sites. (It's just peeing, not pooping, if you must know.)


I think I will pass. Too kinky for me.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> I think I will pass. Too kinky for me.


I was suggesting it to the OP, who asked about such things. I get that it's not everyone's cup of pee tea.


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## dkgould (Feb 18, 2013)

johnlmonk said:


> In my book, the main character comes back from the dead by possessing the bodies of other people. Once, just after possessing someone, he went to the bathroom, looked down and said, "Not too shabby."


 lol oh why am I so susceptible to cheap jokes? I love it.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

1001nightspress said:


> I was suggesting it to the OP, who asked about such things. I get that it's not everyone's cup of pee tea.


Well I couldn't say what I was really thinking as this is a family friendly site.  But yea it might be good for the OP.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> ...I doubt a passing reference to using the toilet is going to flush you in the eyes of the critics....


Flush ME? No no no no no no no... Flush you!  LOL


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## Vera Nazarian (Jul 1, 2011)

My characters *always* answer nature's call and take turns using chamberpots and otherwise go in the bushes, all to great effect that advances the plot. There are even some hilarious or poignant plot development (such as in Cobweb Bride, at least three instances...)

That's cause it annoys me too when books unrealistically glean over this, especially if they describe every other moment blow by blow, and the character hasn't peed or pooped in ten hours straight! (Laurell K. Hamilton, I am looking at you!  Love Anita Blake, but that woman holds it in for days!)


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

cinisajoy said:


> Well I couldn't say what I was really thinking as this is a family friendly site.  But yea it might be good for the OP.


Ha, yeah. You'll notice I don't link that series in my signature. Although he's one of my most literate and accomplished writers.


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## beccaprice (Oct 1, 2011)

Nora Roberts has people (hostages) needing to use the bathroom in her book High Noon.


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

In Delta of Venus, Anais Nin has a wild scene that devolves into a battle with chamber pots. Can't remember which story


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

Proud to say my characters go! I make lots of references to them sleeping, eating, drinking, whatever. I think this is because in my style of writing, I imagine going along my characters throughout their day, and I'm just penning everything that happens. If a part gets too boring, I'll skip it, obviously, but sometimes I notice I have the bad habit of ending a lot of scenes with everyone going to bed at the end of the day. It just seems natural to me.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Hugh Howey said:


> It's almost never raining.


I found this to be an interesting trivia note in the Internet Movie Data Base where it mentioned that in one of the early scenes of the Daniel Craig film Casino Royale, (And some for whatever reason may consider this a spoiler so I'll black it out)--


Spoiler



that specific scene in the jungle was the very first ever scene in the history of Bond films where it rained!


Kind of strange to think there are a few fans out there who take the time to keep track of that kind of thing. But that's the fun of being a fan!


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

cinisajoy said:


> Frank,
> You have me curious. What types of books do you read?


Wide variety of genres but mostly first time writers, a number of indie writers who I find right here, Stephen King ( who I would think unofficially DOES break the record for having characters encounter bathrooms and all manner of situations within).
On my kindle now I have Ahab's Wife by Setar Jena Naslkund, Congo by Michael Crichton, The Pale King by David Foster Wallace, War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy, High Lonesome by Joyce Carol Oates and others- I bounce around alot but if something grabs me I read straight through in a few days time. Doctor Sleep recently made me drop everything to read it- it's surprisingly very good.

And I have recently gotten into the habit of downloading the samples on amazon to study the first chapters of a variety of books to see how others grab readers since a friend pointed it out to me that while I am an okay writer- my opening chapters and specifically my first lines..... need work. So that's a sample of what I read.

And for the most part, I found that very few characters in very few books lead a "normal" life- even if only for a few lines.

And as I said, I was really into a groove with my own character and I got pulled out of the writing moment because I remembered that so many characters aren't allowed to go..... and it irritated me so much I came here. And after just a few hours I already have two pages on the subject. Wow.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Zelah Meyer said:


> According to a wise man (Dean) - it's because, when you have a character go to the bathroom, it often makes the reader go, "Hey, I need the bathroom." They put the book down, go to the toilet, and there's a risk that they'll forget to pick the book back up again afterwards. That's supposedly why.
> 
> My main character goes to the bathroom near the start of Dimension Jumpers: Wanted - but it's because she's trying to make her escape, so she doesn't actually use it.


Zelah- I'm afraid I have to beg to differ on this point. There are a huge number of people who have a current book IN the bathroom for reading purposes. So if they put a book down to stop reading it isn't because they had to pee ( usually)


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

In one of my books, the MC wakes up after an explosion in the hands of the enemy. She's had a urinary catheter inserted. In case you're not aware of the mechanics, the tube is actually two tubes running parallel, one of which is used to inflate a balloon at the tip of the catheter with saline to anchor it inside the bladder. My MC is forced to bite through the exposed end of the catheter to deflate the balloon and pull it out.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

FrankZubek said:


> ...And then I thought, well, wait a second. With few rare exceptions, nobody in fiction ever uses the toilet...
> 
> ...They can have sex and swear and steal and cheat and vomit and all manner of disgusting habits humans partake in but not once do they use the stupid toilet...
> 
> ...


Depends largely on what you're reading, Frank.

Plenty of fiction I read makes passing mention of such necessities without delving into detail.

And why would one need to delve into detail on such matters, unless that particular bathroom trip involves something significant happening?

After all, one of the golden rules of effective writing (coined... I believer, but I could be wrong... by Robert McKee in his tome, STORY) is "Story is not every little thing that happened. It's every important, interesting thing that happened."

Or words close to that effect.

So, most writers utilize shorthand references like, "Gina woke. After her morning rituals, followed by a breakfast consisting only of coffee and a raw-egg smoothie, she caught the last bus headed near her downtown office that she could take and not be late. It wasn't until this trip was two-third over when, sitting next to an overweight woman who couldn't stop snoring while her three-year-old progeny began a third chorus of that old gospel favorite, "I'm Hungry, I Want Candy," that she noticed the strange yellow mold on her palm." 

"After her morning rituals" is all you get, but most people "get it." The three S's. S--t, shower, and shave (men's faces, or women's legs).

No one particularly wants more detail than that, unless and until it's relevant.

And it's a good point that human biological urges can and should play more of a role in things, at times.

What about the criminal running from the cops who gets caught because he runs out of breath, or really needs to pee?

Or the kidnapping that occurs because the victim is abducted while they are on the toilet, at precisely their most vulnerable moment? That sort of thing is the perfect timing for such an act to occur, but rarely do you read anything like:

"Gina took her first break at eighteen minutes before eleven that morning, utilizing the third-floor ladies room, and had no sooner sat down to begin chopping logs than she noticed the mysterious yellow mold had reappeared on her palm. She reached for the toilet paper and was too busy trying to remove the mold with that to hear the door open, or to notice that three pairs of feet entered at the same time, rather than the usual one or two. Sweating, straining, and feeling more than a little queasy, Gina didn't realize she was about to be kidnapped until the stall door was kicked open, nailing her in the nose and forehead, causing a gusher of blood to pour forth on her clothing at the precise moment she'd just cleared the last of the yellow mold away. The impact of the door colliding with her dazed Gina, which had the unfortunate side effect of causing her bowels to suddenly release, even as she slid ungracefully off the toilet. The lead kidnapper, the one who had kicked open the door, was a German terrorist named Ghorge. He glanced at Gina, no wedged halfway between the toilet and the stall wall, then turned to one of his companions, an ex-IRA militant named Moira, and said, "Clean her up. We need to be gone in sixty seconds."

"Why should I do it?" Moira sounded as cross as a teenager asked to clean their room. "You could have waited until she was done."

Ghorge wrinkled his nose at the stench emanating from the stall. "Fifty seconds. Just do it."

...

You get the idea...

Something like that would of give PURPOSE to following a character to the toilet.

Without purpose, there's no need for the detail.

P.S. About "never raining" ... not so, especially in SOME genres. Horror and mystery often use weather to good effect. Writers who don't, I figure they grew up in Los Angeles. 

And heck, through THREE SEASONS of AMC's The Killing (set in Seattle), I don't think there was even ONE SCENE that was rain-free, unless the characters were indoors, and even then, it was raining outside...


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## ecg52 (Apr 29, 2013)

I had a character kidnapped by the Comanche and they rode all day without stopping. Naturally her bladder was full at the end of the day, yet her captor would not give her privacy to relieve herself. She was twelve and it was quite embarrassing for her and fit into the story very naturally. But for the most part, I assume everyone has to pee when they get up in the morning; it's part of everyone's morning routine. Do we really need an accounting of it in the books we read?


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> P.S. About "never raining" ... not so, especially in SOME genres. Horror and mystery often use weather to good effect. Writers who don't, I figure they grew up in Los Angeles.
> 
> And heck, through THREE SEASONS of AMC's The Killing (set in Seattle), I don't think there was even ONE SCENE that was rain-free, unless the characters were indoors, and even then, it was raining outside...


Craig-- a quick addition to your rain comment
I watched Kevin Costner's Open Range from like ten years ago on DVD and he mentioned in the audio commentary that they debated about having several scenes where it would rain quite a bit. Now rain always means extra work for the crew and the actors. Aside from the endless wetness for the actors, the crew has to be sure to have plenty on hand to recycle for a number of repeated takes. IN the end Costner said that he knew it would ADD to the drama of the film and despite the hardship it added to a film already on location up in Canada for over a month, they decided to use the rain.


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## John Blackport (Jul 18, 2011)

Zelah Meyer said:


> According to a wise man (Dean) - it's because, when you have a character go to the bathroom, it often makes the reader go, "Hey, I need the bathroom." They put the book down, go to the toilet, and there's a risk that they'll forget to pick the book back up again afterwards. That's supposedly why.


Well, I can't speak for Dean as an individual, but I can tell you that that's DANGEROUSLY untrue for a LOT of male readers, who do an awful lot of reading in the bathroom ... Sometimes on the toilet, sometimes in the tub.

My bathroom reading is mostly non-fiction... humor, historical essays, and the occasional non-fiction about physics, calculus, or home/automotive repair. Fiction is rarer, but it happens.

I'm speculating about the gender division but IME the instinct to use lavatories as study halls is predominantly a masculine one


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## Sam Kates (Aug 28, 2012)

They can never be allowed to use the bathroom? Wish I'd known this before submitting my latest to the publishers. I have at lest three toilet function references, none of which necessarily advance the plot. And it often rains in my books - heck, a lot of them are set in the U.K. where it always rains...


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

John Blackport said:


> Well, I can't speak for Dean as an individual, but I can tell you that that's DANGEROUSLY untrue for a LOT of male readers, who do an awful lot of reading in the bathroom ... Sometimes on the toilet, sometimes in the tub.
> 
> My bathroom reading is mostly non-fiction... humor, historical essays, and the occasional non-fiction about physics, calculus, or home/automotive repair. Fiction is rarer, but it happens.
> 
> I'm speculating about the gender division but IME the instinct to use lavatories as study halls is predominantly a masculine one


You my dear sir, have obviously never been in my bathroom. Did you want a book or a magazine?
I read in there all the time.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

In fact, despite the number of examples you kind people have provided here the characters on television have broken the bathroom barrier more often than books.

Archie Bunker famously was heard flushing his toilet in an episode of All In The Family ( Yeah, I'm 57. I've been around). Then after that a number of series were allowed to refer to the very human need of relief. Fonzie hung out in there, MASH had several episodes that featured outhouses, Hill Street Blues had a number of comedic scenes take place in the precinct bathroom. And others of course though I can't recall more now.

And also-- to stay on topic-- despite the number of examples shown here ....versus the endless number of books that are released year after year..... it can be argued that there really are a very. very small number of books that feature this.

And yeah, I do agree that while it may be important to the characters within their world, it has been referenced as a passing mention so the reader doesn't dwell on it for very long so the plot can keep going forward.

And I just remembered another scene....Isn't there a scene in SPEAK, by Laurie Hales Anderson, where the main character


Spoiler



( who had been raped and didn't speak of it for a chunk of the book)


 spots some graffiti on the bathroom wall about the bad guy and it makes her feel better that she isn't alone anymore?


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## Lisa J. Yarde (Jul 15, 2010)

Mine did; I even suggested my heroine needed to go #2 than #1. Just to show the differences between the society she'd left and the one she entered. My female characters also talk about their periods. As with everything, no need for overkill or to be too graphic.


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Who remembers that wonderful scene from _Ramona the Pest_ where she questions her teacher about Mike Mulligan (he of "and his Steamshovel" fame)? I'll paste in a reference here, so if there's any copyright violation it's not on me. Ha.

http://annieandaunt.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-love-peggy-orenstein-piece-cant.html


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## Matt Ryan (Nov 16, 2012)

This is what happens when you make it rain with a person on a toilet.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Matt Ryan said:


> This is what happens when you make it rain with a person on a toilet.


lol
That was actually a pretty amazing/scary scene seeing it for the first time. It was like you're sitting there in shock thinking....Did they just do that? Really? Wow! And there's still an hour to go!


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah... no.

I break scenes up sufficiently so that it doesn't come into question and don't plan on turning the camera on that any time soon.

In fantasy though, it's everywhere. People don't necessarily use the toilet all that often, but the results are put in display _everywhere_ once you get into a city because some writers feel the need to perpetuate the myth that medieval cities were reeking, open cesspits of filth and disease where feces ran like water in the gutters at all times.

They will then feature a large-scale cinematic battle in a sewer with ten-foot ceilings and zero water because these cities build sewers without knowing what they were actually for.

I've dubbed this style 'vomit coating', as it's part of a pervasive asthetic to make the world awful on a sensory level to reflect the crapsack nature of the kinds of worlds that focus on this and gleefully roll around in bad history.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Vaal- is there a book or webpage that tells ( as close to as possible) the truth about the infrastructure of medieval towns and cities? I'm working on a fantasy novel and could use that info. Thanks if you know anything. Thanks even if you don't since knowing that it bothers you will make me triple check my "myth" sensory scenes.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Mine go when they need to. Public outhouses were horrendous in nineteenth century Paris and so it added to my story on more than one occasion for both the first and second book in Gastien. In fact, at one point Gastien pisses out his best friends window. When his friend decides to do the same, Gastien pokes him in the sides, causing the man to piss on his wall. (a childish prank, but one a young man would pull on another...at least if they were "bohemian" enough.)


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Matt Ryan said:


> This is what happens when you make it rain with a person on a toilet.


Not to be rude, but what that scene always made me wonder is: who in the world goes pooh on the toilet with their PANTS UP??  LOL

And yes, I'm assuming the intent was pooh-related because 1) He's a man, and 2) he's SITTING DOWN on the toilet.

Men usually don't sit unless it's for "going number two." 

Of course, there's the MMC (magical movie character) explanation ... simply by sitting down, his refuse passes magically from his bowels to the toilet bowl without the need to "drop trou." Kind of a Star Trek transporter-like transaction...

...but nuff said 'bout brown matter, and matters brown.


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## KaryE (May 12, 2012)

Bathrooms, both private and public, and the goings-on therein, make up the setting and plot for one of my shorts.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Hugh Howey said:


> I make my characters go all the time, precisely because this admission annoys me.
> 
> Same with eating. Characters never eat. They are rarely sick. _It's almost never raining_. And characters have nothing in their pockets, practically ever.
> 
> Most characters seem not to have jobs or family. All they have is a plot that needs pushing forward. It's so cliche that it gets distracting.


My novels are set in Scotland. Of course it rains. A lot. 

But I consider this thread the ultimate proof that we DO discuss craft issues. If pissing and pooping don't count, what does?


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I know for a fact that cracked.com has had multiple articles involving myths everyone believes that deals with the 'the middle ages was filthy and disease-ridden and no one bathed' thing and cite article and books to back up the fact that... no they weren't.

On the other hand, if you stop and think about it, the idea that the streets were crusted with human waste makes zero sense:

First of all, even animals in the zoo know to go in the corner so they aren't traipsing through their own leavings, but fantasy writers would have us believe that actual human societies were totally cool with _hurling buckets of steaming crap directly onto the streets below their windows_.

Second of all, if people really were wallowing in their own crapulance, there would have been way more plagues but way fewer casualties (plagues happen when a population does not have strong enough immune responses to a pathogen--not when they are inoculated by swimming constantly in pits of disease).

Third of all, the rulers of major cities (the ones shown to be the absolute worst in these stories) wouldn't let things get that way as the condition of the city reflected upon their strength of rule. Would you let your kids smear puke on the walls of your office for all your co-workers and boss to see? No. No you would not. What makes you think a feudal lord would put up with it?

Sluices, gutters, night soil carts, and middens existed to wash this stuff away from human habitation because, shockingly, there was never a time in which we were that epic in terms of being stinkpigs.

Also, tribal groups were even more diligent, digging trenches and filling them in as needed. The Scythians kept their arrows point-down in these trenches so that they might create infected wounds, meaning they converted basic hygiene into the world's first biological weapon.


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

Matt Ryan said:


> This is what happens when you make it rain with a person on a toilet.


You win the thread.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> Not to be rude, but what that scene always made me wonder is: who in the world goes pooh on the toilet with their PANTS UP??  LOL


IIRC, he ran into the toilet to hide from the rex.

Unfortunately for him, she had a preternatural awareness of where humans tried to hide from her unless they tried to invoke the quackery of Jack Horner, in which case, they were rendered invisible to her on account of ridiculousness.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Vaal  Thanks again


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

This topic reminds me of best selling author Louis L'Amour, the first novelist to be awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.
A few readers asked why he did not write about sex. He responded that sex was only a leisure activity.
"I am writing about men and women who were settling a new country, finding their way through a maze of difficulties, and learning to survive despite them."
Today we read bathroom scenes because we can get away with them.
But why break the illusion of fiction by throwing in something that is mundane. Does a crucial conversation or decision HAVE to be made in the bathroom. Is that the limit of imagination?
Why force the reader to suddenly focus on this? Will the reader now suddenly drop the plot and wonder about the male or female anatomy?

How about a disclaimer at the front of the book:
"The characters are human beings (unless this is SF or fantasy) and have at least one bowel movement a day and pee after drinking fluids."
Then get the story in motion.

A few years ago a similar discussion swept through the romance writers world. If the male lead really loved the heroine, shouldn't the love scene include him putting on a condom to protect her.
Some romances then included such scenes, until readers protested that now the emotion was taken out a romantic scene and replaced by technical descriptions.
So some authors resorted to the disclaimer that the characters practiced "safe sex"

Ho hum, ho hum.
Tell a good story. The reader will assume that humans do human functions when not solving the plot problems.


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## Connie Chastain (Jun 25, 2011)

My male lead farts in bed as he's waking up, like men do. Does that count?

His wife is watching him wake up; she doesn't get to do that often because she always wakes and rises first to fix breakfast (it's a traditional household).

_In shallow sleep, Troy rolled onto his back. He straightened one long leg, then the other. His body stiffened slightly and his brows lowered with the mild effort it took him to break wind. He relaxed again. Eyes still closed, he turned his face toward her, his breathing grew steady and he fell back into full sleep

Patty giggled silently, pondering how a bodily function that caused embarrassment under most other circumstances could be endearing, or at least amusing, when a lover did it in sleep. _


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> Third of all, the rulers of major cities (the ones shown to be the absolute worst in these stories) wouldn't let things get that way as the condition of the city reflected upon their strength of rule. Would you let your kids smear puke on the walls of your office for all your co-workers and boss to see? No. No you would not. What makes you think a feudal lord would put up with it?


Then you don't know much about Paris in the nineteenth century in regard to any public outhouses.


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## Deena Ward (Jun 20, 2013)

I realize after reading this thread and thinking about it, my characters head to the bathroom quite a lot, both public and private. LOL. Oh well. There was always a reason for it, and it didn't always involve having to actually use the faciilities. Often they were having a short convo or they wanted a few private moments to get their thoughts together.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

FrankZubek said:


> I'm working on my fantasy book and its early morning and I want her to sit at the table in the kitchen and take a nip of whiskey or scotch or whatever I'll think of but first she has a full bladder from the night before so she needs to pee.
> 
> And then I thought, well, wait a second. With few rare exceptions, nobody in fiction ever uses the toilet. And if this comes up for you while working a story doesn't it strike you as somewhat odd that that's un unspoken rule?
> Thats goofy
> ...


If the hero relieving him or herself is relevant to the story, then by all means. Otherwise, why? Unless it's for comedic value. There are things that don't matter to a story. The plumbing in the house of the Seven Dwarves. Where the toilet is on the Millennium Falcon. Why Burt and Ernie don't have their own rooms...or jobs. It funny to talk about, but that's it.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I used to get annoyed with the TV series, 24, because Jack Bauer never went to the toilet!

It's quite common in women's fiction to have a character go to the toilet, especially if she's at a bar, club etc.  It gives the character either a reason to say something to another character they wouldn't say in public or for her to overhear a conversation that adds to the plot.  I guess it's different for men on account of them not using cubicles


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## brie.mcgill (Jun 5, 2013)

You know, I originally had a scene where a bunch of guys were undercover, breaking into a military base (Die Hard style), and one guy farted in the elevator.

Then I chickened out and deleted it.

Now this thread makes me think I should put it back in and beg Amazon to force a critical update.


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## 54706 (Dec 19, 2011)

There is all kinds of potty time in my books.  Do what you want! It's your book!


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## Michael Buckley (Jun 24, 2013)

I put my people in a dark room and give them a five gallon bucket and three bottles of water. The bucket is their bathroom.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

kathrynoh said:


> I used to get annoyed with the TV series, 24, because Jack Bauer never went to the toilet!


Actually, you're stumbling over Mr. Bauer's secret superpower.

Jack had the preternatural ability to anticipate when the camera was about to shift away from him and when it would return. Rare was the time that he wasn't "using the facilities" when the "live camera" was busy showing Chloe cracking some sort of code.

Also, apparently, no one in the government EVER sleeps or goes off-shift in the 24 reality...


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

In my books, going to the bathroom is often rife with peril...


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## HarryK (Oct 20, 2011)

On the subject of TV shows, a friend of mine once insisted that the reason Babylon 5 was superior to Star Trek was that characters on B5 actually went to the bathroom every now and then.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Fascinating thread. 

In my sci-fi, characters go to the bathroom, but more as a world building thing than a character building thing.my characters are from a modern (well, advanced, with space travel) world, but stranded on a planet without a lot of the modern technology, so there is quite a bit of world building on how they manage day to day live (like growing and preparing food, making clothes and houses etc). It would have seemed strange (to me at least) to leave out how they went to the bathroom. It also gave me another chance to show how with modern information, life can be more plesant, even without the tech, in that they use composting toilets, not outhouses.

In my fantasy, I don't think I've mentioned it at all.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

HarryK said:


> On the subject of TV shows, a friend of mine once insisted that the reason Babylon 5 was superior to Star Trek was that characters on B5 actually went to the bathroom every now and then.


Babylon 5 had a bigger budget and could afford bathrooms.


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## smwhite (Jul 4, 2013)

I've used this situation to great effect in my novels. It came in handy when I had to 'lower' a king by forcing him to take his ablutions in a tiny cell with another man present. And I've also used the restroom trick to give the age of my character a bit more weight--making it difficult to urinate and the such. But I think, as it was touched upon by others, there's little other value in describing a character using the bathroom. Only if it benefits the story, such as through characterization or plot. I remember Piers Anthony using this idea well in his first Xanth novel as a method for escape. No spoils.


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## Taking my troll a$$ outta here (Apr 8, 2013)

CoraBuhlert said:


> I have bathroom scenes when they make sense for the plot. And while there is less peeing in fiction than in reality, I do see occasional bathroom scenes in novels. For example, George R.R. Martin and Simon Green both have characters needing a bathroom or relieving themselves into unspoiled nature.


This ^^

I have a few scenes where it fits and I included it. I've also used it where it is essential to the plot, giving the shy heroine a reason to wander further into the woods for some privacy to tinkle. 
I think it's those little inclusions that make a character real to a reader. It's unnecessary to include all the painful details of being a human, but a sprinkle here and there is a good thing.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

The purpose of fiction is to be realistic. The purpose of fiction is not to be "real."

Consider, for example, day to day conversations.

"Morning, Bob."
"Morning, Joe."
"How you doing?"
"OK. You?"
"Ah, can't complain. Coffee made?"
"Yeah."
"Thanks."
"Coming to the meeting at 6?"
"Probably be late. Have to finish the Baxter report."
"Make sure you tell the boss."
"Yeah."

THAT is how we talk to each other all day! How long would you actually tolerate dialogue like that in a book?

People should do things in the book that move the plot forward and help with character development. Everything else is boring filler. Nobody cares that your protagonist has to pee unless they have a fetish. So unless there is a reason to include her using the toilet, people are just going to think YOU have a fetish.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> People should do things in the book that move the plot forward and help with character development. Everything else is boring filler.


I have to respectably disagree. There is also a lot to be said about setting the tone and the scene. Historical fiction especially. Also lit fic. Too many books today feel like they are missing something, or that the characters are chess pieces frantically moving about with no fullness to them, because the author is so hell bent on every single sentence moving the plot forward and being full of action. (although I do know you personally mentioned character development, some don't seem to do that, either, as if they are too pressed for time).Not every moment in life is action. Nor should it be in fiction. 

Back a few centuries ago, books rambled on forever, almost at a crawl, and I don't like that, either. Now it seems many authors have gone too much in the opposite direction. They move the story along so quickly it has no soul. It's so fast I don't find any relaxation in picking up one of their books and reading it. When I read I'm not trying to get through the book as quickly as possible. If it reads like a race I'm just as stressed as if I hadn't sat down to escape for awhile. Now, I love drama, so I don't mind being on edge while reading because of what develops in the story, but not because I feel hurried. Making me feel rushed to get to the end irritates the hell out of me and I make sure not to read any other books by that author. Why make me feel like I should get away from the book as soon as possible? I want to stay awhile and really feel immersed in that world.


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## Vaalingrade (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm all for slowing things down a bit, but does the reader have to be subjected to the toilet habits of the characters in order to do it? Like nose-picking and butt scratching, it's not something I'm exactly raring to see when I crack open a book.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The purpose of fiction is to be realistic. The purpose of fiction is not to be "real."
> 
> Consider, for example, day to day conversations.
> 
> ...


I absolutely disagree that the ONLY thing that should happen in a novel is "moving the plot forward" or "characterization". That is extremely important. So is pacing, scene setting, background information and a number of other factors. It would be an extremely boring book in which the only thing that happened was moving the plot forward.

According to that theory when I have the character break up a long piece of dialogue by getting up to pour a cup of wine (which certainly doesn't move the plot forward) I am doing something wrong. To put it mildly, I disagree.

As far as I'm concerned there is no act, including "using the toilet", that is off the table. I already said that I have had a character p*ss. It had a purpose, of course. Everything in a novel should have a purpose, but there can be, in fact there should be, multiple possible purposes.


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> I absolutely disagree that the ONLY thing that should happen in a novel is "moving the plot forward" or "characterization". That is extremely important. So is pacing, scene setting, background information and a number of other factors. It would be an extremely boring book in which the only thing that happened was moving the plot forward.
> 
> According to that theory when I have the character break up a long piece of dialogue by getting up to pour a cup of wine (which certainly doesn't move the plot forward) I am doing something wrong. To put it mildly, I disagree.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned there is no act, including "using the toilet", that is off the table. I already said that I have had a character p*ss. It had a purpose, of course. Everything in a novel should have a purpose, but there can be, in fact there should be, multiple possible purposes.


Yes, indeedy!


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> I'm all for slowing things down a bit, but does the reader have to be subjected to the toilet habits of the characters in order to do it? Like nose-picking and butt scratching, it's not something I'm exactly raring to see when I crack open a book.


I don't think the exact process of his or her habits needs to be in there, but going to the bathroom itself, without describing the actual elimination process, can add quite a bit to the feel of the setting, etc.

Also, nose-picking and butt scratching could help a reader picture the type of character he or she is. A character of mine scratches his balls in my new series, in front of the female MC. It gives the reader an additional picture of what a puke he is, and it fits the setting and theme nicely. Now, if he did that several times it would be jarring and not necessary. All of these things can add something but must not be made into overkill or it's a detriment to any story.


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## BRONZEAGE (Jun 25, 2011)

Caddy said:


> I don't think the exact process of his or her habits needs to be in there, but going to the bathroom itself, ---[balance deleted]


Thanks to Caddy and JR for deflating the bloviating, never-naysaying.

What you said. & It is worth noting that *Ulysses* contains a bathroom scene. Not well received, in that critics felt James Joyce displayed a scatological bent.


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## xoxo (Sep 6, 2013)

I applaud including what you feel you need to in order to tell the story, but generally speaking I presume everyone goes to the toilet without the author telling me so. Unless they're cyborgs. Even then, I'd likely be so fascinated with the idea of them being cyborgs that it probably wouldn't occur to me to wonder how they go to the toilet.

What I'm trying to say is, in fiction, going to the toilet is probably precisely as important as its significance to the story. Just like everything else.


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

Why do people read fiction? I suppose the biggest reason is to escape. I don't think reading about someone's toilet activities is much of an escape (unless the reader has some unusual psychological twists). Also, there's not much sensory pleasure in going to the bathroom. Not as much as in eating a good meal or sex, which is probably why those two activities are commonly depicted in fiction, so that readers can vicariously experience those sensory perceptions.


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

My characters use the loo, they do a lot of their thinking in the loo and some of them look for their escape in the loo. A lot can happen in the loo


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> Also, there's not much sensory pleasure in going to the bathroom. Not as much as in eating a good meal or sex, which is probably why those two activities are commonly depicted in fiction, so that readers can vicariously experience those sensory perceptions.


OH, I don't know. If you're poor and homeless and the only outhouses are overflowing and stink so bad you'd puke...except you have nothing to throw up, then finding a place to go can be quite pleasurable. It also sets the tone and mood of the times, the class differences, and the mood.

Or the only place you can afford is an apartment building with one outhouse...and it's so full of waste that you struggle to use it and still be clean for work, gives a pretty clear picture of what that particular peasant's life is like.

Many readers want it to seem real. It can't without the ugliness being told. I daresay if you are writing HF, drama, and several other genres, if you aren't including some ugliness you aren't writing it as well as it should be. No, it doesn't have to be bathroom scenes. Buy saying the only escape readers look for is for sensory pleasure it simply untrue. It is was, these genres wouldn't sell. Nor would horror, crime, thriller.

Just because people read fiction to escape doesn't mean they all want to escape to a fairyland. Some simply want to escape somewhere that they may possibly find characters that have it much worse, making the readers own life seem much less bad. That's why drama is good for us, so say psychologists.


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

By the way, I have an as yet unpublished short story, _Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows_, that starts while the Captain has urinary problems in a public restroom...

I'm thinking off posting the short story on my blog, if there are enough people who are interested...


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> "Probably be late. Have to finish the Baxter report."


Bzzt.

"Baxter report?" Really?

C'mon, Julie, any real fan of _Moonlighting_ knows the Anselmo case is way higher priority than the Baxter report. ...


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Also, I banned my own book once, just to get J.R. to read it! 

It went something like this:






Disclaimer: I did not make this video, and I don't actually


Spoiler



endorse even fictional depictions of cruelty toward Ubu. He was a good dog... mostly. *sniff.*


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## Adrian Howell (Feb 24, 2013)

I just assumed that Frodo was holding it all the way to Mount Doom... you never knew when that danged eye was watching.


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## FrankZubek (Aug 31, 2010)

Gee I'm starting to feel bad- this is growing toward five pages already off a little rant I did. I hope I'm not taking you all away from your own works. I actually hang out here because I have so few in my own life who love books or writing as much as I do. This place is a very comfortable little escape.


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## BRONZEAGE (Jun 25, 2011)

FrankZubek said:


> This place is a very comfortable little escape.


Comfortable, but the toilet paper is inferior quality.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

BRONZEAGE said:


> Comfortable, but the toilet paper is inferior quality.


I'll be sure to let the cabana boys know....

Betsy


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## Jan Hurst-Nicholson (Aug 25, 2010)

I've read several stories where the characters used the bathroom, but I don't think I've ever read one where they f*r*ed.  Nor have they cut their toenails. But wait ... I had my MC cut his toenails in_ But Can You Drink The Water?_ and one of them shot into his mother-in-law's tea


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

I don't know about you guys, but I'm opening with the poop scene.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Some of mine do.  I have a girl who pees standing up so she can prove to the boys that she can pee standing up.

The reason why mundane functions like going to the bathroom are seldom included in fiction is because it seldom makes any difference to plot or character.  If it's not moving the story forward or enlightening the reader about the character's personality or challenges, then it's going to come across as boring.  Why would you want to write something boring?


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2013)

If you have close friends, have you ever asked them, or had them ask you, "have you had a bowel movement today? Tell me about it, I'm really interested in knowing you better."
Why would a writer assume that I want to stop reading a good plot and visualize a bathroom scene.
Just tell a good story.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

OH, and by the way...Maia by Richard Adams has not one, but two scenes where the main character poops...and it actually does advance the plot and/or build character.

Ta-daaaa!


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## DRMarvello (Dec 3, 2011)

PiiaBre said:


> What I'm trying to say is, in fiction, going to the toilet is probably precisely as important as its significance to the story. Just like everything else.


That's exactly how I see it. If a toilet scene reveals something important about character or setting, I don't have a problem with it.

In one of my books, I have a scene where the female lead is imprisoned in a room with three men. I originally opened that scene with her using the chamber pot, embarrassed by the inevitable noises, while the men politely turned their backs to her. I wanted to give readers a feel for how uncomfortable and helpless she was. It was apparently too much for one of my beta readers, so I took that element out of the scene and showed what I wanted to get across in another way.

The other beta readers didn't mention having any problems with that part of the scene, but I figured that if one beta reader was put off by it, other readers probably would be as well. As it turned out, the chamber pot element was easily replaced by something else, so it wasn't essential to the story. If I had felt it *was* essential, I would have left it in.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2013)

Maybe Dickens would REALLY be remembered if he had David Copperfield do a bathroom scene.
Yeah, that would really help readers understand David Copperfield's character.


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

I was curious after reading this thread, so I checked my latest. Peeing, cleaning up a baby's butt, and nursing. You know, just to move the plot forward. 

"I wanted to stop and watch, but Dora was tired and had to pee."

"Dora finished peeing in the chem lav behind the hanging curtain, then shook out a blanket and spread it on the table. She laid Meg out and cleaned her up, then nestled with her to nurse in the soft pillows on the floor."

"'Remind me sometime t’take you t’Northend in Tee Four,' I replied, unimpressed. 'As long as you don’t pee your pants too easy.'"

"Sef explained. 'I was just going off to pee. Almost broke my neck when I fell into it.'"

"I found a small patch of privacy behind a bush along the shoreline near our camp, and relieved myself."


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Okey Dokey said:


> Maybe Dickens would REALLY be remembered if he had David Copperfield do a bathroom scene.
> Yeah, that would really help readers understand David Copperfield's character.


I'll have to remember not to put anything in my novels that Dickens didn't.


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## Terrence OBrien (Oct 21, 2010)

Okey Dokey said:


> Maybe Dickens would REALLY be remembered if he had David Copperfield do a bathroom scene.
> Yeah, that would really help readers understand David Copperfield's character.


Probably not. It would depend on Dicken's purpose. Micawber actually had a bladder problem, but Dickens didn't want embarrass him by writing about it..


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

AmsterdamAssassin said:


> By the way, I have an as yet unpublished short story, _Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows_, that starts while the Captain has urinary problems in a public restroom...
> 
> I'm thinking off posting the short story on my blog, if there are enough people who are interested...


Well, I stopped thinking and just posted it...


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

My character references going to the bathroom in that he's in a cell and is being watched all the time. It ticks him off.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

Is it an Australian thing? In my first book, my character goes to the toilet in one scene, constipation is discussed in another, and she has a period.


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

Anya said:


> Is it an Australian thing? In my first book, my character goes to the toilet in one scene, constipation is discussed in another, and she has a period.


I have my character and his love interest get into a romantic situation, but they decide they can't follow through right then. The MC needs a 'moment' to get things under control.


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## Carol (was Dara) (Feb 19, 2011)

I've watched enough movies to know the guy who goes into the bushes to pee is going to get sniped or eaten by zombies. Lesson learned. No potty time for my characters. 

Seriously though, my preference as a reader is to skip peeing, applying deodorant, tampon use, dusting away dandruff flakes, etc. I love characters but I don't need to know them _that_ well. Not unless it tells me something worthwhile about the character - like that they're germaphobic. Otherwise I just don't find it worth mentioning. It's a preference thing though. It doesn't strongly bother me if a character spends a sentence relieving themselves - every line of a book can't be riveting. But if there are multiple detailed bathroom scenes I may get squicked out and stop reading, wondering why the author has such a weird obsession.


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## zandermarks (May 20, 2013)

I'm sure my protagonist used the restroom more than once in the course of my novel, but I only put it in the story the time that while doing so, he noticed the bathroom window he would later be using to escape from his pursuer.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Caddy said:


> Then you don't know much about Paris in the nineteenth century in regard to any public outhouses.


The worst public bathroom I have ever seen in the 20th century was in Paris. It was so bad I had to leave the bar and go elsewhere.


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## A.A (Mar 30, 2012)

MaryMcDonald said:


> I have my character and his love interest get into a romantic situation, but they decide they can't follow through right then. The MC needs a 'moment' to get things under control.


Cool, and I bet that adds a level of realism too


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

I send someone to the bathroom when it's relevant.

For my MC - it's amusing, as because she's a magitech program person, most of the time she doesn't need to pee - but in fairyland she does, and it always takes her a while to remember what that feeling means, so she usually ends up doing the pee-pee dance while looking for a bathroom. >_>


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2013)

I think some people have misinterpreted my point.

The OP said it felt unnatural to him to not include the act of going to the bathroom, because people go to the bathroom. My point was that unless there is a reason to include it, don't include it. I generally don't describe that my characters are breathing, either. Unless there is a reason to mention the character's breathing. I don't describe them blinking their eyes unless there is a reason to do so. If you are adding bodily functions for some purpose that adds to the world building or sense of setting or for a legitimate reason, by all means do so. But my point is don't add them just because people crap in the real world. The real world is a boring place, and we do all sorts of things in the real world that nobody wants to read about.

When we describe something to the reader, we are telling the reader that it is important. The reader is going to look for meaning in what we are describing. If you are just adding bodily functions simply because "Gesh, I've written three chapters and Bob hasn't farted. I should add that" then you are doing it for the wrong reason. Just throwing bodily functions into descriptions that don't have some meaning can lead to readers flipping pages waiting for something to happen.

At the opening of_ A Game of Blood_, there is a scene where Mitch is shaving. He shaves daily, but I don't describe each time he shaves. But it's included in the scene as part of the character-building. That scene sets up who Mitch is. But I don't have ten scenes throughout the book of him shaving, despite the fact that over the course of the novel he would have shaved a lot. There is a scene in _The Doom Guardian_ where Nadia starts to sneeze as she enters a bat cave. She is not the only person in that world that ever sneezed, but it's the only sneezing I describe. Because it was important to the story at that moment because it showed the downside to one of her preternatural abilities (exceptional smell). But people sneeze all the time. I'm not going to describe every sneeze just because people in the real world sneeze.


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## Lindy Moone (Oct 19, 2012)

There are times when some explanation is needed -- the setting makes it impossible for anyone to go to the bathroom, but they're there for days, not only not peeing, but not drinking anything, either, not pooping, nothing. But they're all just fine. That's the sort of thing that bugs me. It's not that holding your pee for two days can't be character building, but...

Even so, it bugs me sometimes when it's left out, so I invented one character that always had to go, and complains about all things toilet-oriented. Of course, the book's humorous, so it works. Even my "dead" characters still have "the ominous need for toilet paper."

We do torture our darlings, don't we?

And isn't it fun? 

Still, not everyone can write such sophisticated books as myself. For those people, here's Lenny Henry's classic approach re bodily functions. Apologies if it's been posted before -- and, well, just apologies:


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> The worst public bathroom I have ever seen in the 20th century was in Paris. It was so bad I had to leave the bar and go elsewhere.


Yeah, I've heard the public bathrooms haven't improved much since the nineteenth century, except they aren't outhouses. Many people have warned me if I go to Paris, look for a McDonald's if you have to go. They at least keep their bathrooms clean. (Not to eat. Who would eat at a McDonald's in Paris)


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## AmsterdamAssassin (Oct 21, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> At the opening of_ A Game of Blood_, there is a scene where Mitch is shaving. He shaves daily, but I don't describe each time he shaves. But it's included in the scene as part of the character-building. That scene sets up who Mitch is. But I don't have ten scenes throughout the book of him shaving, despite the fact that over the course of the novel he would have shaved a lot.


I have a scene in _Reprobate_ where Katla comes to pick up Bram and he's shaving. And he shaves with a straight razor, while he's blind. And it shows how he's completely comfortable wielding sharp implements despite his affliction. Plus, while Katla has seen him with his shirt off in the dark, now she can study him at leisure, which brings more characterization.

So I get it. And I agree, don't use mundane actions unless they serve a purpose. As it is, you can also use mundane activities to show boredom or a sense of time passing slowly.


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## zandermarks (May 20, 2013)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The real world is a boring place, and we do all sorts of things in the real world that nobody wants to read about.


This all the way. If it isn't relevant, it doesn't belong. Same goes for conversational business that isn't pushing the story or the character insight forward, IMHO.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

Caddy said:


> Yeah, I've heard the public bathrooms haven't improved much since the nineteenth century, except they aren't outhouses. Many people have warned me if I go to Paris, look for a McDonald's if you have to go. They at least keep their bathrooms clean. (Not to eat. Who would eat at a McDonald's in Paris)


The one in Paris was worse than any outhouse I've seen!


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