# Making 3k per month as author. Realistic?



## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

First off please excuse my typing, I am at my crummy cell phone booth job working for $9 per hour haha and im not good at typing on my phone. I am working on two serials right now. A fantasy and an adventure. I have high hopes as I enjoy storytelling a lot  There is a part of me that worries though, how hard is it to make money with kindle? I know serials are the way to go...and im excited about this. But how realistic is reaching 3k per month? If I work hard, keep writing and promote I will reach it right?


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Hi, dragontucker. That's not really a question any of us can answer with respect to you personally as there are so many variables involved that it would be impossible to address them all. All I can say is that 3k a month is certainly possible, although not all (perhaps even not many) will achieve that.


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## Sarah Barbour (Jun 25, 2012)

There are so many variables here that I'm not sure anyone can really answer the question. There are plenty of authors who make that much—and sometimes a lot more. And there are many more who make nothing or close to nothing. 

Writing some books is a good first step. After that, the quality of your books, the pace at which you publish them, the way you market them, and the vagaries of the marketplace will all be factors in whether or not they actually sell.


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## Darren Kirby (Oct 6, 2014)

I agree, it's possible to make $3K per month.  When that happens for you is anyone's guess.  It sounds like you have the right attitude to do well, and sticking to a long-term plan is the way to go, in my opinion.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I don't write serials but I do write and publish a lot.  I'm working up to that, I think.  It helps to publish frequently and build your audience, IMO.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks guys. My real goal is 5k per month. But I figure 3k seems more reachable in the short term  Yea....I guess its impossible to predict. But im glad to know people here are doing it. I really think I can reach 5k if I just stick with it. I use to do internet marketing. But I want to enrich peoples lives with something they enjoy. Not throw some ads in their face and hope they click lol.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Don't forget you're going to owe around 20 percent in state, federal, and local taxes all told.  So 3-5 k is 20 percent less than that.  Also cover art can cost.  

For me, the most surprising thing has been that writing is almost the least of the hard work involved.  There's so much to learn, editing can be difficult (or expensive) and publishing and promoting takes some time, even if you do it all fairly easily.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Don't quit your day job just yet. Most authors have several books out before they're making enough money to live on. But do keep writing books, and getting as much feedback as you can on them, from writing critique groups, beta readers, and yes, editors. Save up some money for good covers and editing. It seems like the most successful writers here had several books under their belt before they started publishing them, and then they published one after the next in short order, like once a month or so. 

Good luck!


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196095.0.html


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## o.gasim (Oct 5, 2014)

dragontucker said:


> First off please excuse my typing, I am at my crummy cell phone booth job working for $9 per hour haha and im not good at typing on my phone. I am working on two serials right now. A fantasy and an adventure. I have high hopes as I enjoy storytelling a lot  There is a part of me that worries though, how hard is it to make money with kindle? I know serials are the way to go...and im excited about this. But how realistic is reaching 3k per month? If I work hard, keep writing and promote I will reach it right?


I'm with everyone else that it is too hard to say. For every Wayne Stinnet, there are countless individuals slaving away behind a keyboard trying to hit it big at night and working a day job.


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## OldGrumpy (Mar 21, 2011)

This was given yesterday:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,189683.msg2676326.html#msg2676326

I myselves have a crappy evening job, and share the dream you have, to do something else i love to do. If only work and life didn't get in the way (sign! )

If you truly burn for it, are able to quit the things that take time away from writing (Kboards, games and wifey... ) you are on the way.

Nothing guarantee that you succeeds. But working towards it, will give you a better chance.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. hahaha..

I'm wishing you luck and hope both you and i can succeed and get those books out.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

I have a very loose plan for building my writing into a career.

My expectation (or perhaps hope) is that I will be making 2-3k/month once I have two contemporary romance/erotic romance trilogies out, with the first in each series perma free. I may throw a serial in there for good measure, or some short erotica even.

I expect it will take me about two years to write and publish the rest of these books (only #1 is published).

I expect to spend 3-5k on these six books (covers, editing, proofing, ads, formatting), and don't plan on advertising until I have one series out with one permafree. I did some advertising with my first book, and it had an awful ROI.

Will it work? Maybe. Who knows? My first series is not going as well as I'd hoped. I didn't start writing it with the intention of making money. It was more a project I had to write. And I've found that my first book isn't as accessible as I wanted it to be. It's very frustrating, because it feels like wasting time to keep working on the series. It seems like my two options are accept low sales or rewrite the book to make it something different entirely. I'm not a fan of either option.

But I keep reminding myself that I am learning as I go.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks guys. So much info here. I feel like if i just learn here snd stick with it i will have success  So before I release my first book I should let beta readers read it? This might sound small but how can you protect people from stealing your work? How can you trust beta readers and even editors?


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

It's possible, but there's no way to say that you will or won't achieve it. You simply have to do your best and be open to learning new things everyday. Work hard, and you could end up making a living writing. The most I've ever made in a month from book royalties was $1,700, but that's not normal for me. I've been going at this for several years and manage to earn roughly $600 - $700 a month, or $900 - $1,000 on a very good month. That's not a living wage, but it's a good start. Of course, I don't do this full time. I'm also a student, so my schedule is hectic.


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## NoahMullette-Gillman (Jul 29, 2010)

As everyone else has said, it is possible depending on your talent, your marketing plan, the marketability of your books, and many other factors.

Most authors will never achieve this goal. Those who do, do not do it overnight.


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## Sarah Barbour (Jun 25, 2012)

dragontucker said:


> So before I release my first book I should let beta readers read it? This might sound small but how can you protect people from stealing your work? How can you trust beta readers and even editors?


Beta readers are always a good idea. Just be sure to find some who enjoy and understand your genre.

I can't advise you on the legal aspects of copyrighting your work (though it's certainly possible to do). But look for beta readers and editors who come recommended by other authors, and don't be afraid to follow up on references. I've never actually heard of a beta or editor stealing an author's work. It could happen (and I'm sure at some point, it has), but I think it must be pretty rare, or we'd hear a lot more about it.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

There was a big ARC scandal recently on FB in terms of both piracy AND someone publishing the work as their own. I've only let a title be beta'd once, it was actually on a rewrite so the danger was pretty much gone anyway, and they were people I knew in real life who knew that no one wants to p*ss me off to the point they become my new hobby. Also, I didn't find the beta to be at all helpful. You can make much more than 3k a month without ever having your work go through a beta reader or editor, but that is a product of your own skills and your genre (obviously some genres have much less picky readers). [ETA - as I elaborated in a later post, I have a post-doctorate and over a decade experience as a technical writer and editor, which I why I indicated your personal skills are an important factor]


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## AssanaBanana (Feb 1, 2014)

I made that much in August, but the only way it will be sustainable for me if if I keep publishing books. I write erotica novella serials and have 15 titles in my catalog (1st one pubbed in January this year). I have no plans to stop writing/publishing as quickly as I can while still maintaining a standard of quality. I also spend approximately $400 per novella on cover design and editing (expenses eating up roughly half my income to-date).

It's doable, but only if you're consistent and willing to churn out work pretty fast. Or else you get lucky, but most of us get there through hard work and diligence.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

Christa Wick said:


> There was a big ARC scandal recently on FB in terms of both piracy AND someone publishing the work as their own. I've only let a title be beta'd once, it was actually on a rewrite so the danger was pretty much gone anyway, and they were people I knew in real life who knew that no one wants to p*ss me off to the point they become my new hobby. Also, I didn't find the beta to be at all helpful. You can make much more than 3k a month without ever having your work go through a beta reader or editor, but that is a product of your own skills and your genre (obviously some genres have much less picky readers).


So you make that much without betas or an editor?


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I've been at this for 3 years plus. I'd love to be at 3K a month. I'm not. Best run I had was a few months where I did 200 to 250 a month, for a while. I'm learning as I go and hope to get back to that and surpass it, but don't imagine it's easy. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## djv1120 (Dec 7, 2013)

My goal is similar to yours (the $5K number you mentioned as your REAL goal).  For your $3000 goal, you are talking about selling 48 books per day at $2.99.  For my $5K goal, I need 80 books per day.  To someone who was selling 5 or 6 a month, that may seem like an impossible dream, but I KNOW it can happen.  My second book is launching in 10 days and I expect to make a big jump.  The key for me is focusing on a goal that seems achievable.  Once you reach that goal, set a new one.  You have to have something you believe you can achieve, though.  If not, it might be very hard to keep going.

The one thing I can't stress enough is to do things right the first time.  I self-edited book 1 with my wife and paid for a cheap custom cover so my total investment was $100.  I have since paid for a good cover artist, paid for an editor, wrote a second book, paid for both editor and cover artist, re-wrote book 1 (I seem to have gotten a lot better after writing 2 books), paid to edit book 1 again, and paid for some marketing for book 2's launch.  All told, I have about $2K into the books so far.  After doing a little bit of advertising on book 1, I am doing up to 5 sales per day now.  I didn't really see that happen until I did some advertising and started getting book 1 listed on some "also bought" lists.  It is slow, but I can see momentum building now.  If I had done things right from the beginning, I could have started building momentum 8 months ago.

Good luck!


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## Steve Vernon (Feb 18, 2011)

I have a good friend of mine in a neighboring province, who says that's about what she makes as an indie-writer. Three grand a month. Is she a better writer than me? I don't know but she sure as heck outsells me.

Speaking for myself, I make about ten grand a year - and that's counting personal appearances, my traditional publishing royalties as well as what I make as an indie writer.

That's after forty years of writing.

There is always going to be somebody out there making more money than you. Count on it. Bet on it. Swear on a stack of self-published memoirs written in broken iambic pentameter.

Give yourself a few years. Write like the devil. Promote like a brilliant angel. Don't fart around too much on Facebook. Don't give up the day job - it buys you the time that you need to write. Smile at the people you need to smile at and wash under your armpits so that you don't smell funny. Write some more. Get lucky at Bookbub. Find out that you have real knack for romance - or smut - or how-to write Kindle books.

Write some more.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Luck is always an important factor in this gig.

Knock on wood and cultivate an acre of four-leaf clover - neatly lopping the feet off of any bunnies who happen to wander into that field.

Keep on writing.

You never can tell.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

If you are write into a specific niche and serve the market well, it appears to be easy to make that much and more. But if you just write what you want, unless what you want to write happens to be exactly what the market wants (and that's doubtful for most of us), then you probably will be lucky to make a couple hundred bucks a month after a few years.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Possible? Yes. But, not without a lot of hard work and completely changing your lifestyle to accommodate the endless hours it will take. I hit $3K a month with the release of my third book, and have averaged $10K a month since releasing my fourth.


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## meh (Apr 18, 2013)

Unedited, un-beta'd books typically do not do well.  Don't think that you can skip steps. If you want to write professionally, you have to be a professional and have all the professional tools. Having a professional cover is also important. Take a look at the bestselling books and see how many have awful covers. Unless you're in erotica, typically not many. 

Can someone try to steal your book? Sure. How often does it actually happen? Not often at all. I think I've come across maybe four instances over hundreds, maybe even thousands of books published by fellow writers I've chatted with here and other places on the web. And it's generally pretty easy to prove it's your book if you keep records, notes, old files, etc. So don't let that scare you off. As a community, the writers also tend to gang up and beat down any plagiarizers we find out about.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

dragontucker said:


> So you make that much without betas or an editor?


More than that (in fiction for erotic romance genre) - but I have a post-doctorate and worked as a technical writer and editor for over a decade for a very exacting audience. And, GASP, I do my own covers, too.


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## Morgan Jameson (Sep 16, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Possible? Yes. But, not without a lot of hard work and completely changing your lifestyle to accommodate the endless hours it will take. I hit $3 a month with the release of my third book, and have averaged $10K a month since releasing my fourth.


About what percentage of that is ebooks Wayne? Did you do print copies right off the bat or wait a bit?


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Christa Wick said:


> There was a big ARC scandal recently on FB in terms of both piracy AND someone publishing the work as their own. I've only let a title be beta'd once, it was actually on a rewrite so the danger was pretty much gone anyway, and they were people I knew in real life who knew that no one wants to p*ss me off to the point they become my new hobby. Also, I didn't find the beta to be at all helpful. You can make much more than 3k a month without ever having your work go through a beta reader or editor, but that is a product of your own skills and your genre (obviously some genres have much less picky readers).


That was the Sam Taylor Mullens thing. The book was not stolen on beta read. The book was stolen from Rachel Nunes. A beta reader who read the Mullens book (under a new title and with added sex scenes) realized it was Nunes' book. Mullens (real name Tiffanie Rushton) didn't want the beta reader to let Nunes see the book because she didn't want to get caught plagiarizing. The original work was not stolen on beta read. The plagiarism was discovered on beta read.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Christa Wick said:


> More than that (in fiction for erotic romance genre) - but I have a post-doctorate and worked as a technical writer and editor for over a decade for a very exacting audience.


I think this is what makes it possible for you to successfully put out unedited/unbetaed work. I think many (most?) here do not have the same experience/credentials and need some help in that department. I think it's dangerous to assume others have to same proficiency you do in any skill and suggest they just go it alone. It's easier. It's faster. But it's not always better. Ymmv.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

I'm making a solid five figures a month these days. Generally between $10,000 and $14,000. Those numbers have held steady since March -- but I've done solid releases just to keep those numbers even. With my new romantic suspense plan -- and the upcoming holiday season -- I'm hoping to push that to $20,000 -- but we'll see how it goes. That being said, I still have my dreaded day job (mostly for the benefits). I easily make five times at my writing (after taxes) than I do at my day job -- and I'm generally putting another 30 hours a week in at my writing. I'm really driven right now -- but I'm also really tired.

You also have to either be a good cover designer -- or be willing to pay for it. Period. I've seen a lot of people thing the writing will show through bad covers -- and it won't.

Also, yes, for the love of all that's holy, have it edited. Not just beta read -- but edited. I think, if you're a solid writer, you can get away with having some shorts merely beta read. I think there is a difference between being a solid writer and a solid editor, though, especially when you're reading your own stuff. I write quickly, and I write clean -- but I am not a great self-editor. That's why I have multiple people reading my stuff (and things still sneak through). As a writer, you know how things are *SUPPOSED* to read. When you're reading it back to yourself, you don't always see what's actually there. You need at least two qualified readers to go through your stuff (there is better) -- and qualified does not mean your mom. I have a grammar Nazi on my stuff now. I certainly wish I'd had him back when I started. My books look someone splattered someone with a knife in the same room as the pages when I get them back. He's tough. Ripping me on picture vs. photograph, lectern vs. podium, where else would your heart hammer besides your chest, etc. I want it that way. In six months time, he has whipped my draft writing into amazing shape -- and I still make errors (and I also write for a newspaper at my day job). You cannot edit yourself well enough. It's just not possible.


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## kathrynoh (Oct 17, 2012)

I don't think it's a question of whether it's possible or not but more about how many books you need to release do get there. You could do it with one book if you had incredible luck and the stars in alignment or you could have out 3000 short stories and average $1 each off them a month.

I don't think it's an unrealistic aim.


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## SBJones (Jun 13, 2011)

It's been said before, if you want to make $x then it's simple math.  You will need 8572 99c or 1436 $2.99 or 858 at $4.99 sales per month to reach 3k.  Book sales are trendy so more than likely you will see 40% to 60% of your annual sales occur over the holiday season.  So some months you will be way over and the rest of the year you will be under.  Better save those Christmas dollars for July.

If you price higher you need to sell less books and you have to write enough books until the total sales gets you to where you want.  Did I already mention books are trendy?  What sells well this year may not sell at all next year.  Is $36,000 a year unrealistic?  No I don't think it is.  I think it's unrealistic to expect to do it with one book.  I think its unrealistic that one book will sell $36,000 a year forever.  I think it's realistic that luck can do anything.  You may get lucky.  You may have to write for each and every dollar.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

YodaRead said:


> That was the Sam Taylor Mullens thing. ...The original work was not stolen on beta read. The plagiarism was discovered on beta read.


I'm familiar with the Nunes/Mullens occurrence - I'm not talking about that (although Mullens was on a list of beta readers for other authors, too, so who knows what else was going on in crazy town).


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Monique said:


> I think this is what makes it possible for you to successfully put out unedited/unbetaed work. I think many (most?) here do not have the same experience/credentials and need some help in that department. I think it's dangerous to assume others have to same proficiency you do in any skill and suggest they just go it alone. It's easier. It's faster. But it's not always better. Ymmv.


I don't assume they have the same background as me, which is why I reference my background.


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## Monique (Jul 31, 2010)

Christa Wick said:


> I don't assume they have the same background as me, which is why I reference my background.


Yes, I'm glad you elaborated in a later post. I think too many newbs, understandably, want the easiest path to success. They see someone say "I don't use a beta or editor and I make thousands a month" as verification that they're unnecessary. I think it's a rare bird that can do that and do it well.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Monique - ah, yeah, true, I didn't have that in the first post. I just edited it.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Morgan Jameson said:


> About what percentage of that is ebooks Wayne? Did you do print copies right off the bat or wait a bit?


More than 99% are ebooks, Morgan. Including the ones I give away. I publish both the ebook and paperback at the same time.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

I think 3k a month is totally reasonable to aim at if the following things are true:
1) You write well and know the tropes of your chosen genres, and your genres are ones with actual readership
2) Your covers and editing are professional, your branding is spot on for your genres
3) You release regularly and have a funnel into each series
4) You have a mailing list and are actively building/growing it

If these things are in place, you'll likely get to 3k or more a month with a little luck (luck is always a factor).


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2014)

With the advent of KU, it's been very doable for me. However, I have a huge backlist of almost 90 books/novelettes with my pen names, and it's mostly a numbers game. The more books you have, the more the little sales/borrows aggregate to make enough to live on. I would guess if you publish steadily, you might make that goal within two-three years. It took  me about two years to hit that level after going indie. I was not making that much with traditional publishing, though there were quarterly checks and advances that were more than $3K, of course. Just not consistently.

Good luck!

P.S. Since we're discussing editing too, a good editor is important. I've worked with some excellent ones in my time. It's given me the confidence to release my shorter works with only beta readers' input, but I still use an editor from my old trad. days for longer books. I freely admit I didn't have anyone beta or edit "Kilted Tentacle Monster" though. I'm sure you'll understand why I didn't want to spend $100 on that. And I made my own cover too (with help from the writers here). I sometimes make my own covers, and I sometimes commission them. I'm lucky to have a friend who is a graphic designer and gives me a discount in exchange for editing her newsletter.


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## JRHolmes (Mar 6, 2014)

dragontucker said:


> Thanks guys. My real goal is 5k per month. But I figure 3k seems more reachable in the short term  Yea....I guess its impossible to predict. But im glad to know people here are doing it. I really think I can reach 5k if I just stick with it. I use to do internet marketing. But I want to enrich peoples lives with something they enjoy. Not throw some ads in their face and hope they click lol.


Believe me, by the time you are consistently making 3K per month, getting to 5K will not be too great an issue. The greatest problems are making that first $100, then $500. Getting to that level will (hopefully) help you learn what you need to do to keep advancing.


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

EelKat said:


> I have an English degree and worked as an editor of a literary magazine for 20+ years and I STILL can't edit my own work. I can edit other people's work fine, no problem, but try to edit my own work? pttfh. I read it the way I THINK I wrote it, and miss seeing the errors. Even with my background in editing, I still have to have someone else edit my own work.


I have both an undergrad and post grad Eng/Lit degree and I STILL cannot edit my own work either. I too can edit others and I have graded enough English papers to choke a horse and I still can't edit my own work. EelKat is 100% spot on. I also edit my own work the way I thought I wrote it instead of how I actually wrote it. We are all human and therefore need another set of eyes on our MS. I would never publish anything without running it through an editor. Heck, I even worry about how I post on Kboards!


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2014)

Good luck. I think your goal is possible. However, realize that even with an editor and beta readers, it doesn't guarantee everything will fall into place. I've known authors who have a friend edit for them, having no idea that the friend is a terrible editor. Some have authors who couldn't make enough money writing, but they assume they can edit, so they go into that business. Too often, they don't know much more than the new author.

For myself, I've tried to gather betas for my other pen name, and all I got were eager fans who just wanted to read my work for free. It means nothing if they love everything you write. That's no help at all. 

Recently, I had a new editor through a small publisher I work with. She gushed over my book, saying there isn't much because you're such a great writer. I was so frustrated because I know better. I do have an English degree with a specialty in technical writing, but I am not perfect, and I have a lot to learn. Finding a skilled editor can be a challenge. This same editor charges what I consider to be exorbitant fees for independents.

Just do your best, read Kboards for guidance, and keep your eyes open to learn. You just may reach your goal.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Let's not get too hung up on editing and beta reads. Certainly important details, but the covers, the blurbs, and the stories are going to be even more important, and volume and genre are most important of all.


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## D. Zollicoffer (May 14, 2014)

You can make that if you how to write stuff people want to read. This is tough for some people, while it comes naturally to others. I'm only in my third month of writing and I'm already around $4,000 and I havent even wrote my real books yet. So it's beyond possible.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2014)

Dolphin said:


> Let's not get too hung up on editing and beta reads. Certainly important details, but the covers, the blurbs, and the stories are going to be even more important, and volume and genre are most important of all.


Agreed.


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## susan_illene (Aug 10, 2014)

It's different for each person.  I'm not sure any two authors have the exact same path to success.  From the beginning you have to be realistic that it could take years and many books before you make a living at it.  Even then there are no guarantees.  For me, I started pulling in minimum 3k income a month after releasing my second full length novel.  The month after I released my third novel (and I had a novella out in between), I made $23k.  It dropped after that so I've been buncing between 12k-18k a month.  I just released a fourth novel, but it's too early to say how well this month will go.  

Having said all that, I do have a lot of expenses.  I use two editors and a professional cover designer who does work for the NY publishers.  I also spend about $800 a year on marketing.  To do well, you've got to be willing to put a lot of time and money into it.

I do think you're smart to start asking questions now.  A lot of the people who are successful early in their publishing careers did their research ahead of time.  Polishing your work (with editors/beta readers) and having a solid game plan make a difference.  Writing something that has a strong demand in the market helps as well.  Of course, it's not always easy to know what that is until you put your work out there!


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## Kalen ODonnell (Nov 24, 2011)

Dolphin said:


> Let's not get too hung up on editing and beta reads. Certainly important details, but the covers, the blurbs, and the stories are going to be even more important, and volume and genre are most important of all.


Hmm, disagreed. I think the covers, blurbs and genre are most important in the sense that they're the source of initial sales, what gets readers to try your books in the first place. But once that's been met, editing is every bit as important as story because that what gets readers buying your second and third book - well written stories that are easy to follow, and that's what gets you sales volume, which as stated, is the most critical in getting you to 3K a month.

While a good story can occasionally trump poor editing and formatting and become successful in spite of those things, that is the exception rather than the rule. More, its just an unnecessary obstacle to place in the way of increasing your sales. Strong editing and a good story shouldn't be an either/or thing, they should go hand in hand.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Kalen ODonnell said:


> Hmm, disagreed. I think the covers, blurbs and genre are most important in the sense that they're the source of initial sales, what gets readers to try your books in the first place. But once that's been met, editing is every bit as important as story because that what gets readers buying your second and third book - well written stories that are easy to follow, and that's what gets you sales volume, which as stated, is the most critical in getting you to 3K a month.
> 
> While a good story can occasionally trump poor editing and formatting and become successful in spite of those things, that is the exception rather than the rule. More, its just an unnecessary obstacle to place in the way of increasing your sales. Strong editing and a good story shouldn't be an either/or thing, they should go hand in hand.


Yeah, I just don't think that's true. Most of the books I've read, tradpub and indy alike, were in need of further editing, yet they succeeded. I would be embarrassed as all get-out if I'd published _The Hunger Games_ in its final state. With all love to Hugh, the versions of _Wool_ and _Shift_ I read were littered with typos (_Dust_ was much better, IIRC-and incidentally, he discovered his editor when a reader sent him an itemized list of _dozens_ of corrections, completely unsolicited). Joe Abercrombie repeatedly insists throughout multiple novels that blood tastes like salt instead of, I don't know, metal, or specifically copper. They're all doing fine.

People want a good story. If they find one, they want moar stories, warts and all. For an indy who's just starting out, I think there are much, much higher priorities than fretting over betas and editors. It can take much longer to find good beta readers than it takes to ramp up to $3k in a month. Top shelf editing and betas aren't necessary or sufficient to earn as a writer.


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

Dolphin said:


> Joe Abercrombie repeatedly insists throughout multiple novels that blood tastes like salt instead of, I don't know, metal, or specifically copper.


Blood actually can taste salty, based on your proportion of taste buds. But beyond that-the metal isn't copper. It's iron.



Dolphin said:


> People want a good story. If they find one, they want moar stories, warts and all.


That can be true, but it also depends on the story's target audience. Readers of literary fiction will be pickier than, say, preteens. I recently got a review on a YA sci-fi dystopia novelette that remarked on the lack of typos-which means that reader watches for them.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Carradee said:


> Blood actually can taste salty, based on your proportion of taste buds. But beyond that--the metal isn't copper. It's iron.


Yeah, I know it's iron. To me it reads like inappropriate dialogue tags--horribly distracting. I feel confident that most people would go straight to metal, and at least a plurality would settle on copper if you asked what blood tastes like. Perhaps because we encounter copper more often, perhaps it has a stronger odor (and few of us spend time literally _tasting_ metal), I dunno.

Irritated me for the best part of a couple thousand pages. Read 'em anyway.


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## Evenstar (Jan 26, 2013)

Okay.... Lots of really positive "go for it" responses here; so I don't mind being the voice of doom and gloom for a change.

I think it's jolly unlikely! A few do, a rare few. I believe that the chances of it happening are enormously increased if you hang out in the writers cafe, but for each of us drinking coffee in here there are hundreds of indie authors out there who are struggling along without the advice and support that is so plentiful in here. Most of the seriously big names in Indie publishing used to be Trad pubbed. A lot of people start out with a backlog. And very importantly, a huge majority of the big names were self publishing for quite some time before they had a "break out" novel.

Not that I'm suggesting you want to be a big name. Most mid-listers make that. But it sounds like you are just starting and hoping to make it quite soon, which I think is a bit optimistic for most.

Yes, it isn't an impossible goal. But I'm guessing you are going to have to do this as well as the day job until you make that kind of money? Which makes it even harder.

I'm not saying don't go for it, of course you should go for it! I'm just saying I think that it is unrealistic to expect to be on 3k a month within a few months, while holding down a full time job and with no previous experience.

And yes, it does happen... occasionally... Maybe it will to you. But I've been on WC for nearly two years and I've only seen a handful of people canter out of the gate. Most plod up a steep hill first!


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

Evenstar said:


> Most of the seriously big names in Indie publishing used to be Trad pubbed.


I think you're flat-out wrong there.



Evenstar said:


> A lot of people start out with a backlog. And very importantly, a huge majority of the big names were self publishing for quite some time before they had a "break out" novel.


But I agree that people built a backlist fast or self-published for awhile.


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I guess the big question is will you love it enough to keep going when it's hard?  I think that is a big factor.  Honestly, everyone here has had a book they thought was wonderful bomb.  Or their ratings drop and sales suddenly disappear, often for no easy to tell reason.  It's so hard to predict what's going to happen, sometimes you have to just keep going forward and hope for the best, do your best, and accept it when things don't go well, and then get up and keep going forward.  I do wish you--and every writer--the best.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

What? I'm not obsessed. I'm...uh...dedicated.

Ok. Maybe also obsessive. A bit.


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## bobbic (Apr 4, 2011)

kathrynoh said:


> I don't think it's a question of whether it's possible or not but more about how many books you need to release do get there. You could do it with one book if you had incredible luck and the stars in alignment or you could have out 3000 short stories and average $1 each off them a month.
> 
> I don't think it's an unrealistic aim.


Oh god. I write short stories, and I never thought about it that way. LOL. Where's the wine? ;-)


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm with Stella/Evenstar.

There's no reason not to dream big... but luck plays a huge role, and there are great talents who produce and write hard and work at it and simply don't find a wide audience very quickly or easily.

So, yes, dream big, but realize it's not usually a "happens overnight" deal, either. Have some short-term and intermediate goals to meet on your way to that big goal, so that you don't get discouraged along the way.

Lots of great writers I know who are big successes now labored for years in obscurity before becoming "overnight sensations." 

Whether it takes you two months, two years, or even longer, have fun along the way, tell great stories, and keep your focus on the joy of writing, rather than on the short-term financial results. 

(NOTE FOR REFERENCE: James Patterson's first book was published in 1976 to very little fanfare, though it did win an Edgar Award, and not much in the way of sales. Along Came a Spider, the book that made him an "overnight success" was published in 1993. That's 17 years and seven novels before he caught on and became one of the best-selling writers of the new millennium.)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Patterson_bibliography


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## Jj2011 (Oct 1, 2014)

Write in a popular genre that isn't TOO saturated and write well and publish regularly and I don't see why u can't make 3k within 2-3 months. I did it in 2 months. But I also had two major releases a month apart.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Jj2011 said:


> Write in a popular genre that isn't TOO saturated and write well and publish regularly and I don't see why u can't make 3k within 2-3 months. I did it in 2 months. But I also had two major releases a month apart.


A lot of people follow all the right steps and don't get anywhere near 2-3K a month. Aim high, but be prepared for less than ideal.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

You can hit a bunch of big numbers once, the problem is to become consistent with those numbers.

$1K a month is relatively easy. $2K a month is easy if you have a new release that catches fire. $3K a month is easy if you have at least 2-3 books in your series. 

If you want to get up into the $10-$20K range, you need 3-4 books in a series, with the first book in perma-free. At least, that's what I hear. I haven't experienced it yet.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Sophrosyne said:


> ...At least, that's what I hear. I haven't experienced it yet.


Which is my point.

Why say it's easy when, in point of fact, those cases are the exception rather than the rule?

There's as much luck in the mix to finding success as there is talent and drive and prolific output.


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## ChrisWard (Mar 10, 2012)

Of course it's possible. It's also super hard to achieve, but if you accept that from the outset and get to work, there's no reason you can't get there eventually. Don't expect to do it out of the gate though. Some people do, but everyone's story is different. I set out with a seven year plan to be full time. My interim plan was to be earning $500 a month within three years. I'm coming up to the end of my third year and this last year I've topped my target, but only just. That's with three to four hours a day of writing and promoting on top of a day job (and some days a night job too). No one can live off $500 a month, but I set myself realistic goals and I'm happy because I'm achieving them. It's very easy to get frustrated by people who appear from nowhere and suddenly start selling tons of books with no idea how they're doing it, but as I said, everyone's situation is different. You have to set goals you think you can realistically achieve and get to work on reaching them. In October 2013, after 18 months of hard work, I earned $15.61 on Amazon USA. This month I topped that within two days. On Draft 2 Digital, haha.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

Sophrosyne said:


> You can hit a bunch of big numbers once, the problem is to become consistent with those numbers.
> 
> $1K a month is relatively easy. $2K a month is easy if you have a new release that catches fire. $3K a month is easy if you have at least 2-3 books in your series.
> 
> If you want to get up into the $10-$20K range, you need 3-4 books in a series, with the first book in perma-free. At least, that's what I hear. I haven't experienced it yet.


I have no books permafree -- only one day every three months for the first book in a series -- and I've surpassed it. I think everyone is different.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

I didn't say that $10K-$20K a month is easy. I just gave the formula I've been given for that one.

But I agree. You need to have a combination of skill, talent, luck, marketing savvy and the ability to write more than one book to get there. If your writing sucks, your covers suck, your blurbs suck and your idea of marketing is posting on Facebook or sending direct messages on Twitter, you can have a hundred books out and be lucky to make $100 per month.

If you're trying to decide on whether or not to quit your day job, OP, wait until you're consistently making enough money every month to live on, and you get comfortable with being able to write and publish new books fairly regularly.



CraigInOregon said:


> Which is my point.
> 
> Why say it's easy when, in point of fact, those cases are the exception rather than the rule?
> 
> There's as much luck in the mix to finding success as there is talent and drive and prolific output.


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Sophrosyne said:


> You can hit a bunch of big numbers once, the problem is to become consistent with those numbers.


This is one of the things I've been curious about in the wake of these recent "Realistically, Can I Have a Pony?" threads. A few people have said how long it took them to achieve $1k in a month, $3k in a month, then added the caveat that they promptly lost ground afterward. I imagine there are more folks to whom that applies, but who didn't bring it up.

Seems to me that we're too eager to assume these milestones continue indefinitely, or that it's on to the next one afterward. It'd probably be much more useful to think about it in terms of yearly income, rather than monthly.

Not that I'm saying we need more pony threads...just a thought.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Dolphin said:


> This is one of the things I've been curious about in the wake of these recent "Realistically, Can I Have a Pony?" threads. A few people have said how long it took them to achieve $1k in a month, $3k in a month, then added the caveat that they promptly lost ground afterward. I imagine there are more folks to whom that applies, but who didn't bring it up.
> 
> Seems to me that we're too eager to assume these milestones continue indefinitely, or that it's on to the next one afterward. It'd probably be much more useful to think about it in terms of yearly income, rather than monthly.
> 
> Not that I'm saying we need more pony threads...just a thought.


LOL, I thought, "Can I have a pony?" too!

I do think there's a point you get to, where you're mostly being pushed by word of mouth and algorithms and so forth. Yes, sales still go up and down, but it's probably not all going to disappear, because of course you're still releasing books, and you have things like foreign editions and audio and so on. It's probably still not a good idea to develop a cocaine habit or buy a multi-million-dollar condo in Maui, and financial planning's always important, but you don't have to live like the wolf could be at the door any second. I just enjoy things like being able to get coffee whenever I want without having to think about whether I can afford it.

(And just as another voice: I've never had a permafree either, nor do I release every month or two months. I don't think I've ever released within the 90-day window. I think there are different routes people take, and they can all work.)


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Can I have a pony. I promise I'll take care of it!


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## Dolphin (Aug 22, 2013)

Hypothetically, when _would_ it be a good time to develop a cocaine habit? I am asking for a friend.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Dolphin said:


> Hypothetically, when _would_ it be a good time to develop a cocaine habit? I am asking for a friend.


Only and strictly after your third million-copy year.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> It's probably still not a good idea to develop a cocaine habit


This is probably the most disappointing thing I've read all week.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Dolphin said:


> Hypothetically, when _would_ it be a good time to develop a cocaine habit? I am asking for a friend.


When you're Aaron Sorkin


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## Daniel Kenney (Sep 18, 2014)

Realistically, how long would it take for me to develop a cocaine habit?


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

When I can afford a cocaine habit I'll know I've arrived.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Snorting cocaine while riding a pony.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

It's possible. There's some luck involved, but a lot of it is getting a sound business plan together.

Mine goes something like this - 1) read the top books in my genre; 2) plan a series of at least three; 3) make the first book in the series permafree; 4) promote the snot out of the permafree whenever a new book in the series is released; 5) make sure I write in a popular genre.  

I have found, but maybe it's just me, that a mailing list is overrated. I have over 800 people on my mailing list, but, for my last release, I think that only 50 of them actually bought that book in the first couple of days. It could be because my new series is NA, while my other books were more contemporary rich guy romances. I don't know.

Also, I will say that the one thing that I have neglected doing, up until now, was read the top books in my genre. I figured that I wanted my books to be different from the bestsellers. That kinda worked for my first two series, because I think that I hit just enough tropes in those series to make those series kinda sorta hits. Not breakout, but enough to earn me six figures in 2014. I mean, I did read Fifty Shades of Grey, so I wasn't flying completely blind.

But, for my latest series, I didn't read any NA books, I'm ashamed to say, and that series has performed poorly. My usual formula of permafree plus promoting the permafree didn't work at all - I think that I'm at less than a 1% sell-through rate on that series. Ugh. Broken has between 30-40% sell-through, consistently. Beautiful Illusions usually manages around 12%. I've tried the resuscitation paddles - new covers, a Freebooksy ad on the freebie - and it continues to limp along. The lesson I've drawn from this? Read the bestsellers, see what's popular and what readers want. 

Perhaps it will pick up when I complete the series next month, but I'm not holding my breath. 

Like everyone else, I'm still learning....


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Personally--I don't read in my genre any more at all and don't research the genre any more than I can help. I'm nowhere near trendy. I'm too easily influenced--would get somebody else's voice in my head. Or I'd get discouraged. (However, I love the genre and have read a lot in it in the past, know what I like and don't like.)

I just write the kinds of books I enjoy reading. I wouldn't write NA because I'm not particularly interested in that age group. Ditto erotic paranormal or tortured/torturing billionaire. . Nothing wrong with them (well, ok, I've got issues with power imbalances, rapey sex, etc., I'll admit, for some of that), but clearly-- not my thing. I write contemp romance with a high feel-good factor, and rom suspense, because I like thrillers a lot, and I like character-driven books without a lot of angst or really horrible stuff. I don't want to feel bad and don't want a roller coaster ride. It's worked because I think there are a lot of readers like me out there. 

So--I don't think you necessarily have to research or write to the market. I think the "market"'is often terribly under-served due to everybody writing the hot new thing. I think there are lots of readers in various other niches--for me, feel-good about basically decent and adult people, with humor and a little steamier sex than tradpubbed books offer. As long as I stick with that overall thing, I do ok between series etc.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

(I should add that I know many authors have done hugely well writing to current trends. I never wrote to sell, just wrote for me, and I think I'd do a lousy job at writing to the market, but doesn't mean others shouldn't.)

(Also, duh, I write romance--I mean yeah, I write to the big market. But just because those are the stories in my frivolous head!)


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Personally--I don't read in my genre any more at all and don't research the genre any more than I can help. I'm nowhere near trendy. I'm too easily influenced--would get somebody else's voice in my head. Or I'd get discouraged. (However, I love the genre and have read a lot in it in the past, know what I like and don't like.)
> 
> I just write the kinds of books I enjoy reading. I wouldn't write NA because I'm not particularly interested in that age group. Ditto erotic paranormal. Nothing wrong with either thing, just not my thing. I write contemp romance with a high feel-good factor, and rom suspense, because I like thrillers a lot, and I like character-driven books without a lot of angst or really horrible stuff. I don't want to feel bad and don't want a roller coaster ride. It's worked because I think there are a lot of readers like me out there.
> 
> So--I don't think you necessarily have to research or write to the market. I think the "market"'is often terribly under-served due to everybody writing the hot new thing. I think there are lots of readers in various other niches--for me, feel-good about basically decent and adult people, with humor and a little steamier sex than tradpubbed books offer. As long as I stick with that overall thing, I do ok between series etc.


That's another good strategy - counter programming, so to speak. It's like in the summer, when there's nothing but blockbusters out, and someone comes along with a little movie that hits big, because there are so many people out there who don't like Spiderman, the X-Men and Transformers, and they want to see something different. So, there's something to be said for Rosalind's approach.

That said, I think that it's a risk. You could certainly break out with books that aren't written to market, but I think that it's tougher. And you could end up like me - with an underperforming series that you have to finish, but don't really want to. It could really go either way...


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

Yep, Annie, as a strategy, yours is probably a better bet! Alas, my stubborn brain doesn't let me choose.


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Yep, Annie, as a strategy, yours is probably a better bet! Alas, my stubborn brain doesn't let me choose.


Hey, it if aint' broke, don't fix it!!!!!  You've done awesome - you're kinda my idol.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2014)

If you can get to $500 a month writing 3 to 4 hours a day, what would be possible writing 8 to 10 hours a day?
Just curious


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Rosalind James said:


> Personally--I don't read in my genre any more at all and don't research the genre any more than I can help. I'm nowhere near trendy. I'm too easily influenced--would get somebody else's voice in my head. Or I'd get discouraged. (However, I love the genre and have read a lot in it in the past, know what I like and don't like.)
> 
> I just write the kinds of books I enjoy reading. I wouldn't write NA because I'm not particularly interested in that age group. Ditto erotic paranormal or tortured/torturing billionaire. . Nothing wrong with them (well, ok, I've got issues with power imbalances, rapey sex, etc., I'll admit, for some of that), but clearly-- not my thing. I write contemp romance with a high feel-good factor, and rom suspense, because I like thrillers a lot, and I like character-driven books without a lot of angst or really horrible stuff. I don't want to feel bad and don't want a roller coaster ride. It's worked because I think there are a lot of readers like me out there.
> 
> So--I don't think you necessarily have to research or write to the market. I think the "market"'is often terribly under-served due to everybody writing the hot new thing. I think there are lots of readers in various other niches--for me, feel-good about basically decent and adult people, with humor and a little steamier sex than tradpubbed books offer. As long as I stick with that overall thing, I do ok between series etc.


This is pretty much how I approach things too. I write mysteries but haven't read any for years, although I used to inhale them by the yard. Now that I'm writing them in a niche I happen to like, I've found that there are readers out there who will snap my books up - I sold thousands of my first with no promotion at all, when nobody knew who I was or whether I could write, and I can only guess that was because they'd been waiting for someone to release this sort of stuff.

I write what I want to read, and since I'm not particularly special or exciting I tend to assume that if I like it then there will be lots of other people who like it too.


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## Usedtoposthere (Nov 19, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> Hey, it if aint' broke, don't fix it!!!!!  You've done awesome - you're kinda my idol.


Thanks! And I agree re mailing list BTW. I finally got one, have released one book since. Hasn't made any difference. It's not big though. 800 people since June. I get most of my engagement through Facebook and my website. Love Facebook because you can have actual conversations.


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## EthanRussellErway (Nov 17, 2011)

It's nice to see so many people giving you encouragement and the right kind of advice.  I wish you all the best!  Just know that whatever happens, you've got a lot of hard work ahead of you, but it sounds to me like you realize that and are up to the challenge.  I look forward to taking a look at your book once they come out.
Again, Good Luck!


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

That's actually what I did/do -- I write what I want to read. It's funny, because when I started, lit agents wouldn't touch my books, because they didn't know how to market them. My books fall in between established genres. They're too funny to be suspense, too paranormally-oriented to be contemporary chick lit, and too spooky and not sex- or romance-oriented enough to be rom-coms. Publishing them myself allowed me to fill a niche that it turned out other readers were looking for as well, and publishing houses weren't quite filling. 

It's how I buy gifts too. I buy what I would like, and usually, it works for the gift receiver as well.


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## dragontucker (Jul 18, 2014)

wow thanks so much everyone!!! Great advice here  I guess it all depends on so many things. LOL.....some people say they started making 3k a month 1-2 months after getting started while a lot of people never make it.

I am writing in the fantasy and comedy/adventure genres. I am pretty excited about all of this. I am getting my cover made now


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## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

RE: writing to market. I will have to say that you can make it work if you don't write to market. It is more difficult, though, IMHO. Rosalind and Lyndniz made it work, but to me, it's like capturing lightning in a bottle. 

I think about Viola Rivard's original post of how she came out of the gate swinging, and one thing that resonated with me was that she said that she understood her genre well. That means that she knew the tropes, the reader's expectations, etc. I read this book called "The Naked Truth About Self-Publishing," and Jasinda Wilder wrote about how she analyzed NA bestsellers before she wrote her number one bestselling book, Falling Into You. She said that she looked at some of the bestsellers, and they would be riddled with typos, but still sell like hotcakes. She wanted to know why. She obviously figured it out, and she's one of the top sellers in my genre, still. 

Now, if you look at movies, you know that formula movies are going to do well at the box office, for the most part. People complain about how much each movie is the same, but these formula movies still make bank. Ever so once in awhile, though, you get a "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" that comes out of nowhere to take the world by storm. But those movies are sleepers, and they can't generally be duplicated. It's something about hitting the zeitgeist at just the right time. In other words, pure dumb luck. 

Which is why my next plan is to purely write to market and see what happens. I haven't done that yet with any of my books, but I'm going to try it and see if I hit big. 

Sellout, schmellout, LOL.


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

$3k per month, with 70% royalties of a $2.99 price, equates to about 50 sales per day. (That's thinking of Kindle only, but let's not forget that the greater the number of outlets at which you sell your books, the greater the number of sales you're likely to make, too).

Clearly there's a _huge_ range of factors which can alter the probabilities of anyone reaching that income-level with self-published books, of which their writing skill is going to be fairly high on the list.

Other important factors which can typically help to put the odds in most people's favor, rather than against them, would certainly include having everything they release professionally edited, employing a professional cover-designer and writing in a very clearly defined and popular genre. (There are clearly - as always - some exceptions and counterexamples to each of these major parameters, but equally clearly they are exceptions rather than "the rule", and these factors are always _likely_ to be very beneficial.)

Series are one way to go. I have no wish to try to talk anyone out of that approach at all, but they're not the only way to go: there are also plenty of authors earning that kind of income-level - and considerably more - from unrelated books, too.


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## Morgan Jameson (Sep 16, 2014)

WAIT. Amazon is now giving away _ponies?_ That really is unfair. I really don't see Hachette countering _that _one...


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## Desmond X. Torres (Mar 16, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> RE: writing to market. I will have to say that you can make it work if you don't write to market. It is more difficult, though, IMHO. Rosalind and Lyndniz made it work, but to me, it's like capturing lightning in a bottle.
> 
> Which is why my next plan is to purely write to market and see what happens. I haven't done that yet with any of my books, but I'm going to try it and see if I hit big.
> 
> Sellout, schmellout, LOL.


Sellout my eye.
You'd still have to bring a good story to the table. You still have to write it. In a way, you're bringing your talents to your readers in a format that they want. You're making the upfront investment in time, research, and then crafting the tale aren't you? YUP.

I prefer to look at it as a form of self determination- you're deciding where to put your efforts for the best return.

This is your second job, Annie; and you're approaching it in a similar manner that King talks about in On Writing. I honestly believe your approach is as valid as any other out there.

To the OP- one thing that I can say on my own personal experience is that a lot of it depends on how much experience at trying to write good stuff you have before taking this on. I mean that if you don't have the skill set now, you're going to have to develop it. A lot of the posters here have been writing for a long time and have sharply honed skills in the craft department.

That has to be bookended if you're an Indie (and, I suppose from what I've read for TP authors too nowdays) with some marketing savvy.

I'm doing about $3K/month now. 
I wrote my first book in May-June of 2012 and it's pretty horrid. I wrote a bunch more that are marginally better. But I kept at it.

I don't watch more than an hour of TV a night. I don't have a lot of outside interests. All told, I've spent about 8-10 hrs/day six/seven days a week at this for the last 2 1/2 years.

I had to learn E V E R Y T H I N G. 
But all of this is learnable. It's a craft.

Discipline, dedication, and a willingness to kill your darlings- whether they're characters or assumptions on how this biz goes. And learn from the people that post here today, as well as the archives.

Overall, the short answer is that it's definitely doable. 
If you put in the work.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

YodaRead said:


> I'm making a solid five figures a month these days. Generally between $10,000 and $14,000. Those numbers have held steady since March -- but I've done solid releases just to keep those numbers even. With my new romantic suspense plan -- and the upcoming holiday season -- I'm hoping to push that to $20,000 -- but we'll see how it goes. That being said, I still have my dreaded day job (mostly for the benefits). I easily make five times at my writing (after taxes) than I do at my day job -- and I'm generally putting another 30 hours a week in at my writing. I'm really driven right now -- but I'm also really tired.
> 
> You also have to either be a good cover designer -- or be willing to pay for it. Period. I've seen a lot of people thing the writing will show through bad covers -- and it won't.
> 
> Also, yes, for the love of all that's holy, have it edited. Not just beta read -- but edited. I think, if you're a solid writer, you can get away with having some shorts merely beta read. I think there is a difference between being a solid writer and a solid editor, though, especially when you're reading your own stuff. I write quickly, and I write clean -- but I am not a great self-editor. That's why I have multiple people reading my stuff (and things still sneak through). As a writer, you know how things are *SUPPOSED* to read. When you're reading it back to yourself, you don't always see what's actually there. You need at least two qualified readers to go through your stuff (there is better) -- and qualified does not mean your mom. I have a grammar Nazi on my stuff now. I certainly wish I'd had him back when I started. My books look someone splattered someone with a knife in the same room as the pages when I get them back. He's tough. Ripping me on picture vs. photograph, lectern vs. podium, where else would your heart hammer besides your chest, etc. I want it that way. In six months time, he has whipped my draft writing into amazing shape -- and I still make errors (and I also write for a newspaper at my day job). You cannot edit yourself well enough. It's just not possible.


To make that kind of money, how many books do you need to have out roughly on the market?


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

Desmond X. Torres said:


> Sellout my eye.
> You'd still have to bring a good story to the table. You still have to write it. In a way, you're bringing your talents to your readers in a format that they want. You're making the upfront investment in time, research, and then crafting the tale aren't you? YUP.


No no no...if you write something in popular fiction then it will definitely sell well, didn't you know? I'd aim for romance, that's an easy sell and category to write in. Or erotica, that one is guaranteed to make you money (I'm kidding, this is meant to elicit chuckles, not debate). All you have to do is study the market and write in a popular genre and you'll become a top seller.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2014)

dragontucker said:


> First off please excuse my typing, I am at my crummy cell phone booth job working for $9 per hour haha and im not good at typing on my phone. I am working on two serials right now. A fantasy and an adventure. I have high hopes as I enjoy storytelling a lot  There is a part of me that worries though, how hard is it to make money with kindle? I know serials are the way to go...and im excited about this. But how realistic is reaching 3k per month? If I work hard, keep writing and promote I will reach it right?


I never ask a board if it's possible to achieve something. I just go for what I want, and most of the time I get it eventually. 

Go for it, and good luck!


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## Rue Hirsch (May 4, 2014)

Hi, there's some really good vibes and advice here. I just wanted to add something: focus on progress. Instead of trying to build a house all at once, start with the foundation, then the structure, then the walls, etc. Its great that you have an overall goal of where you want to go. But in order to get there, you need to work at your goal each day. No time off. Practice, practice, practice. Sharpen those writing skills, learn about the craft each day and about you as an artist. Each day, add another section to that house. Progress is about working towards that bigger picture, and within time you'll reach your goal. Focus on the journey and enjoy it.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

Kalypsō said:


> If you are write into a specific niche and serve the market well, it appears to be easy to make that much and more. But if you just write what you want, unless what you want to write happens to be exactly what the market wants (and that's doubtful for most of us), then you probably will be lucky to make a couple hundred bucks a month after a few years.


This. If you write well enough and market well enough--these are important factors, too.

Heck, you can make $3k a day. There are some who make $10k, $20k, and $30k a day.

How good are you at writing? How good are you at writing things people want to read? How good are you at marketing?

That's basically it.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

kalel said:


> To make that kind of money, how many books do you need to have out roughly on the market?


Any number of books could do it, from 1 to 100. It would depend on the book. I hit the $10K mark not long after publishing my third book. Does that mean publishing any three books will get you over that mark? No. But, writing a good story that people want to read, having a professional cover made for it and investing in good editing, will get you close. Good marketing and promotions, too.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Having read some of the authors that responded to your question, my advice is write the best story you can and keep it interesting from beginning to end.
Heck i would advise that you take the time to sample the others works.


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## von19 (Feb 20, 2013)

You're writing in the wrong genre if you want to make 3k a month XD


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## LA Ramsey (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm encouraged by most of the responses here! I think if it's your passion to write and to write for a living, then go for it. The key at this point is the sacrifice of time since you have a J-O-B doing other things. I'm in the same boat (well my J-O-B centers around writing, but it's not writing my own books) - but I am encouraged that I can make this happen.

I plan to start writing serials / series as well. I will set my goals small and reach them and reset them.

Good luck in the climb! I hope to see you at the top!!!!


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## S.D (Jun 19, 2011)

In my opinion the best way to approach anything is to think about the process and things you can control. You can't say "Hey I want to make 3k." Great but a goal without work is just a dream. Say "What will put me in the best possible place to make money from writing?" That puts you into action and you can configure a plan to do the most of what YOU can. At the end of the day as authors we only have so much at out control. Do what you can control and if you want full time results you must do full time (and many days OT) work. Good luck.


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## RTEdwins (Jan 16, 2014)

not to be Debbie downer, but I'd say probably 95%+ of indie authors will never make 3k a month in sales (not consistently). Probably about half won't even break $250 a month consistently.

I think you need to seriously temper your expectations if you want to avoid disappointment. I'm not saying it can't happen or that you aren't a great writer (you might be the best even), I'm only saying that the statistics are not in your favor. You should write for the love of writing, not because you think it will make you money. This is art, and most art never makes the artist money.


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## RTEdwins (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm sorry, maybe it's overly pessimistic of me, but I feel like the blatant encouragement that's been given in this thread to an unpublished author that he/she will be able to EXPECT to make 3k a month is just cruel. What happens when the OP publishes their work and they don't make that kind of money? can you imagine how disappointing it would be to EXPECT $3,000 in royalties and only make maybe $40??

I get that many of you here are making that much or more, but how long did you work at it before you got there? I'm not talking which book it was, I mean how long did you work on your writing craft before you started making that kind of money? my bet is YEARS. Years and years of practice, torn up/deleted drafts, unfinished manuscripts and long nights of writing. The OP hasn't even begun to scratch the surface of what being an indie author entails. All the product design/details, the marketing strategies, the email lists, the begging bloggers to review the book, the costs of paid advertising (BookBub, etc.), the strategies for timely releasing of their works. OP hasn't even started on any of that and you guys are telling them to EXPECT (not dream, not wish, not hope, but EXPECT) to make 3k a month?

I'm sorry, but it is exactly that kind of unrealistic encouragement that nearly derailed me from writing at all. When I didn't make the thousands of dollars I was told to EXPECT I almost quit writing. Thankfully I didn't, and now I do make some extra cash from selling books almost every day (nowhere near 3k a month), but most people aren't like that. Most people give up after their first perceived failure. Why not set the OP up with some realistic expectations so when that first almost nothing royalty payment comes in, they don't give up because they feel like a failure? Why not give realistic expectations so when they do eventually make that much in royalties, they can appreciate it more?

OP, I absolutely think it's possible to get to 3k a month and I absolutely think you have that potential, but please please please do not give up writing when you likely don't make that much money right away. It may take YEARS to get to that point, but if you are willing to work for it, you can do it. I want you to write because you are an artist, not because you think it's easy money. I want you to write because it's a creative expression of storytelling, not because you think it will pay your bills.


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Kayla. said:


> I've read somewhere that around 50% of Indie authors don't even make $700 a year.
> I'd be delighted to make $700 a year. I've only been at this for 3 months, so we will see.


I would be utterly amazed if it was even that high. I doubt whether my two science fiction novels bring in $50 a year between them. How many people write a book or two that no one ever notices and then simply stop writing? For most people a novel represents a considerable investment of time and money, and if it doesn't pay off they're not likely to continue.


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## RTEdwins (Jan 16, 2014)

Kayla. said:


> I've read somewhere that around 50% of Indie authors don't even make $700 a year.
> I'd be delighted to make $700 a year. I've only been at this for 3 months, so we will see.


Exactly! I'm fortunate enough to say that I definitely make more than $700 a year off of my writing, but I'm about 3 years in (with two published novels, a third in the works and a serial nearly ready to launch). True I have so much more to write, but if I was doing this just because I thought I could make loads of easy cash off of it, I'd feel pretty darn depressed.


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## boo4321 (Nov 21, 2013)

No, your average indie author statistically doesn't make much money. BUT numbers like that include a broad range of people--including the countless numbers of people who publish first drafts, or books with covers made in Paint, or those who throw up their book, don't do any marketing, and forget about it. If you take the time to research, soak up all the information at places like this, put up a professional product (cover, editing, formatting), take the time to market, and adopt the ability to adjust course if needed (since half the battle is finding your audience and reaching them), you're already putting yourself WAY ahead of the curve. Does this guarantee you a certain amount of money? No. But it makes it much more likely.

I agree that there's a certain amount of luck involved (and work, of course). But I also believe that you can set yourself up to be "lucky." A professionally-packaged book in a popular genre is more likely to see a "lightning strike" of sales than one that isn't. An author who regularly releases books or has a larger catalog is more likely to have one take off than an author will only one published book. There are no guarantees in this industry (or any, for that matter), but there are things you can do to increase your chances of hitting certain financial goals.


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

RTEdwins said:


> not to be Debbie downer, but I'd say probably 95%+ of indie authors will never make 3k a month in sales (not consistently). Probably about half won't even break $250 a month consistently.


I disagree with that. I used to do a survey of indie author's income, and of everyone who replied, about 75% were making 4-figures a month, with about 25% making 5-figures a month and 2% making 6-figures a month. Only the bottom 25% was struggling in the 3-figure range.


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## LA Ramsey (Feb 4, 2014)

Did you read this:

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,196095.0.html

This encourages my socks off! I'm not giving up on this dream!


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## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Sophrosyne said:


> I disagree with that. I used to do a survey of indie author's income, and of everyone who replied, about 75% were making 4-figures a month, with about 25% making 5-figures a month and 2% making 6-figures a month. Only the bottom 25% was struggling in the 3-figure range.


I LOL'd.


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## rosclarke (Jul 12, 2013)

Sophrosyne said:


> I disagree with that. I used to do a survey of indie author's income, and of everyone who replied, about 75% were making 4-figures a month, with about 25% making 5-figures a month and 2% making 6-figures a month. Only the bottom 25% was struggling in the 3-figure range.


I've never seen a single survey of author income which didn't have a self-selecting sample. That makes those percentage figures next to useless, I'm afraid.


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## Matthew Stott (Oct 22, 2014)

I have yet to actually publish anything (aiming to have lots of finished books before I dip a toe!), but I'd say aiming for such a large monthly sum, whilst an admirable dream, is a bit la-la land. Of course it can and does happen, but personally I'm aiming for much smaller goals to start with, and really goals that have little to do with making cash. I'd say 'I hope to sell 50 copies of this book within 6 months' is an achievable goal to start out with. 'I want to put out three books within 4 months, to build up a catalogue of work', again, a good goal. 'I hope to make loads of cash and quit the day job', well, sure, who wouldn't, but that's such a huge, potentially impossible goal to have in your sights that there's a good chance you'll end up frustrated. Better, for me, to think small and build, you're bound to feel happier about yourself and your work that way..! Build in steps, rather than wanting and expecting it all straight away.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2014)

RTEdwins said:


> Exactly! I'm fortunate enough to say that I definitely make more than $700 a year off of my writing, but I'm about 3 years in (with two published novels, a third in the works and a serial nearly ready to launch). True I have so much more to write, but if I was doing this just because I thought I could make loads of easy cash off of it, I'd feel pretty darn depressed.


I would never expect to make much money with only two novels in three years. You're chastising everyone for being unrealistic, when in actuality, it's you who is unrealistic.


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## RTEdwins (Jan 16, 2014)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> I would never expect to make much money with only two novels in three years. You're chastising everyone for being unrealistic, when in actuality, it's you who is unrealistic.


two things: First, I had faulty math, it's been two years, not three, my mistake. Second, that two* year figure includes the time spent before the first book was ever published (writing and editing it for several months). Both full length novels (93k words and 146k words) were published about a year apart, which for someone who works a full time professional level job, isn't too bad. I am NOT being unrealistic at all. I am making money from my work and I'm selling copies every day, I am an average indie author royalty earner. I am on schedule to make thousands of dollars per year on my writing, which puts me well ahead of a great deal of indie writers. When I publish the serial I've been working on (which will have several parts pre-written and will be within about 18 months of my original published book) and then my 3rd novel as well, I expect that number to increase a fair amount. I have a levelheaded expectation about the projections of my royalty growth because I've learned the hard way what it takes to make it in this writing game.

All I'm doing is trying to spare the OP from experiencing the disappointment I felt when my first book (while well received) only netted me a few hundred dollars instead of the thousands I'd been led to believe were "realistic."

you say that I'm being unrealistic but yet you just PROVED my point by suggesting that even a person with two books and years of relevant experience can't necessarily expect to make 3k a month. If that's the case then why should an unpublished beginner entering a genre that's already heavily saturated by indie writers expect 3k a month? It's just lunacy to expect that. Great to hope for and to strive towards, an excellent goal, but an unrealistic expectation


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

Nothing is realistic in the Arts - it's an inherently unrealistic profession to choose!

All you can do is due diligence with the elements in your control - learn your craft, put out a good product, support it with smart marketing. What you can't control are industry trends and someone wanting to read and then enjoying your particular book.

The Arts are subjective in both creation and consumption. You can't make people love you. All you can do is get yourself out there to see if they will or not......


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

dragontucker said:


> First off please excuse my typing, I am at my crummy cell phone booth job working for $9 per hour haha and im not good at typing on my phone. I am working on two serials right now. A fantasy and an adventure. I have high hopes as I enjoy storytelling a lot  There is a part of me that worries though, how hard is it to make money with kindle? I know serials are the way to go...and im excited about this. But how realistic is reaching 3k per month? If I work hard, keep writing and promote I will reach it right?


Im not making 3k

But its a simple game of math.

The more product you have out there, the sooner you are going to hit 3k

What makes some get their faster than others is:

1. Luck
2. Hard work ( they write constantly )
3. They pick a genre that consumes ( romance , thrillers, erotica ) If you succeed out of that props to you but its tougher.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

kalel said:


> Im not making 3k
> 
> But its a simple game of math.
> 
> ...


This isn't true. Sorry. 500 things that don't sell is just 500 things that don't sell. They still won't sell. Having a plan and aiming for a market and knowing how to begin hitting that market is far, far better than just writing a lot with no plan and no marketing plan. Quantity without a plan is just quantity. There's nothing guaranteeing some kind of magical minimum sales average. Nothing. Down that road lies nothing but frustration. Trust me, I spent 4 years doing that.

Then I got a plan and stopped writing willynilly just to write lots. Now I'm making a very good living. It isn't an accident. It isn't random luck. Luck factors into the scale of that living, sure, but not as much as people seem to want to think. So my advice is don't publish hundreds of works hoping one gets hit with lightning. Publish with a plan to attract that lightning. Study people who are selling how you want to sell, who are successful in the genres you want to write, and then see if you can implement parts of what they do to help you.


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## Heather Hamilton-Senter (May 25, 2013)

ㅈㅈ said:


> This isn't true. Sorry. 500 things that don't sell is just 500 things that don't sell. They still won't sell. Having a plan and aiming for a market and knowing how to begin hitting that market is far, far better than just writing a lot with no plan and no marketing plan. Quantity without a plan is just quantity. There's nothing guaranteeing some kind of magical minimum sales average. Nothing. Down that road lies nothing but frustration. Trust me, I spent 4 years doing that.
> 
> Then I got a plan and stopped writing willynilly just to write lots. Now I'm making a very good living. It isn't an accident. It isn't random luck. Luck factors into the scale of that living, sure, but not as much as people seem to want to think. So my advice is don't publish hundreds of works hoping one gets hit with lightning. Publish with a plan to attract that lightning. Study people who are selling how you want to sell, who are successful in the genres you want to write, and then see if you can implement parts of what they do to help you.


 + 1000


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

RTEdwins said:


> Both full length novels (93k words and 146k words) were published about a year apart, which for someone who works a full time professional level job, isn't too bad.


I challenge you and everyone else to do better. You wrote and published 240K words in 730 days, or about 330 words a day. Your post was that long. Can you double that? Triple it?

I started writing my first book (90K words) on 7/1/13 and published it 99 days later. From the time I started writing the first, to the time I published the fourth was eleven months. They averaged about 100K words. That's about 300K words in 335 days, or 910 words a day. Your reality is you're just not writing enough to satisfy the demands of the customer. They'll go elsewhere. Doesn't matter if you're talking about books or microchips.

During the writing of those first four novels, I was a full time, over the road truck driver, home for only 36 hours out of two weeks. My average work day was 14 hours. But that didn't count route planning before and after the 14 hour day or breakfast and supper. On average, I had 8 hours of non-working time per day and slept five or six of those. I also had a layover somewhere on the road the one weekend I wasn't at home for 36 hours, which I spent about 20 of doing nothing but writing. I doubt any job is more demanding of time than that of an over the road truck driver. I know, I worked in the white collar world for a time.

Excusing the lack of productivity because of the demands of a full time job doesn't fly. If you work 8 hours, sleep 8 hours, there has to be an hour or two per day, left of that other 8 hours to write. Lifestyle gets in the way, not jobs. Family, kids, Dancing with the Stars, the local sports bar, dating, dinners with the wife, and thousands of other things are what stops most writers from productivity.

A thousand words a day equals a novel every three to four months. We, as indies, don't have the luxury of a name like Child or Patterson, we're nobodies. But, so were they once upon a time. If being a full time writer is a dream, I'm here to say it can be done. And to a lot more than the tune of $3 a month. I'm talking $3K a week. But, it takes a lot of dedication, hard work, and planning. It takes adjusting a person's lifestyle to accommodate the writing. Not the other way around.

Full disclosure, I'm a full time writer and haven't worked a regular job since May. I make about 6 times the OP now, but still only write a thousand words a day. A release every three to four months is the sweet spot.


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## kirtkinkly (Oct 30, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I challenge you and everyone else to do better. You wrote and published 240K words in 730 days, or about 330 words a day. Your post was that long. Can you double that? Triple it?
> 
> I started writing my first book (90K words) on 7/1/13 and published it 99 days later. From the time I started writing the first, to the time I published the fourth was eleven months. They averaged about 100K words. That's about 300K words in 335 days, or 910 words a day. Your reality is you're just not writing enough to satisfy the demands of the customer. They'll go elsewhere. Doesn't matter if you're talking about books or microchips.
> 
> ...


The only thing that I am afraid of doing a long novel is that it will fail. Meanwhile, all the effort and time that I have invested in it would be wasted.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

kirtkinkly said:


> The only thing that I am afraid of doing a long novel is that it will fail. Meanwhile, all the effort and time that I have invested in it would be wasted.


Yes, it might.

But, I can guarantee, with absolute, 100% certainty, if you don't write it, it will be an utter failure.


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## Mike_Author (Oct 19, 2013)

I think someone hit the nail on the head when they talked in terms of expectations and disappointment.  I went into this a few years back with zero expectations and now make circa the headline number in the thread title each month.  However here is where expectation can be a subtle, yet brutal mistress.  About a year and a half ago, after finally teaching myself how to make half-good covers, my sales doubled twice in two months.  So I couldn't help but start to make projections into the future (No matter how many Taleb books I read, I still do this, like most people) involving riches beyond my imagination.  When things calmed back down to 10% or so growth per month, my motivation was sapped for a while.

The problem is - removing expectation from the equation is difficult.  If anyone has cracked it, please let me know.


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## LA Ramsey (Feb 4, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> But, I can guarantee, with absolute, 100% certainty, if you don't write it, it will be an utter failure.


Best quote ever!


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

You don't have to be a good writer to earn $3000 a month. You have to be a good story teller. A fact that is lost on some people.It's all about the story.


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## Dobby the House Elf (Aug 16, 2014)

Pretty hard to tell a good story without being a good writer.


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## mojomikey (Apr 9, 2014)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> I challenge you and everyone else to do better. You wrote and published 240K words in 730 days, or about 330 words a day. Your post was that long. Can you double that? Triple it?
> 
> I started writing my first book (90K words) on 7/1/13 and published it 99 days later. From the time I started writing the first, to the time I published the fourth was eleven months. They averaged about 100K words. That's about 300K words in 335 days, or 910 words a day. Your reality is you're just not writing enough to satisfy the demands of the customer. They'll go elsewhere. Doesn't matter if you're talking about books or microchips.
> 
> ...


+1000 Listen to a guy that's actually doing it. I'm a fulltime writer, nowhere near as successful....but I am making it. Most of my sales are full price sales of my fire dept. books to other firefighters (I was a lieutenant on the fd for 29 years)


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## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

Anything in this game is possible.


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## skyle (Oct 13, 2014)

I quite like to think small. I find focussing on the little things makes the big things happen on their own.

I'm trying to break the $1000 mark with my January paycheck. I made a smidge under $900 across Amazon, Google and Smashwords this month. But I wont get anything from Smashwords again this year, which I think I need to push me over the 1k mark.

We'll see. I keep my expectations low and I'm rarely disappointed


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## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

KJC said:


> Pretty hard to tell a good story without being a good writer.


There's a fair few grammatically challenged abominations selling well on Zon. I know of guy who hit the top twenty with a title that he admitted was embarrassing. The readers lapped it up, tbough. Best review I read re that title?

"Okay, I admit I bought the book because of the hot guy on the cover. I also admit that on every page some error appalled me. However, Ican't wait to find out what happens next, but pleeeaaaase, for my sanities sake - get an editor."

I get slated a lot for my grammar -however I consider it to be my unique and choppy style. That's my excuse and I'm sticking by it.


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## von19 (Feb 20, 2013)

EC said:


> I get slated a lot for my grammar -however I consider it to be my unique and choppy style. That's my excuse and I'm sticking by it.


I spit out my tea, lol.


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## hermione47 (Nov 5, 2014)

We are talking books, not cakes or shoes! I am not surprised traditional authors are so scathing about self published ones. It should be about the craft, the art, not about getting out as many books as possible. 
You know what will happen, right? Soon enough the reading public will get fed up with paying for badly written serials about vampires/sex gods/shirtless studs and read them ONLY free of charge on fan fiction websites.
And they will pay only for well crafted, beautiful books. And those don't take 30 days to write. 
In the end, quality always wins out.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

hermione47 said:


> We are talking books, not cakes or shoes! I am not surprised traditional authors are so scathing about self published ones. It should be about the craft, the art, not about getting out as many books as possible.
> You know what will happen, right? Soon enough the reading public will get fed up with paying for badly written serials about vampires/sex gods/shirtless studs and read them ONLY free of charge on fan fiction websites.
> And they will pay only for well crafted, beautiful books. And those don't take 30 days to write.
> In the end, quality always wins out.


Your post is off-base on about half of its assumptions.

I agree that "badly written" stuff will not do well and turn readers off.

But something can take three years to write and still be badly written. (I won't cite examples, but many are out there.)

Something can be written in a lot less time than 30 days and still be excellent. (Fahrenheit 451 took Ray Bradbury about a week for 45K words or so.)

And readers, as a rule, judge writers on a writer-by-writer basis. Someone pumping out crud ONLY affects that particular someone... they'll stop seeing people buy them, after a while.

But no, speaking as a reader myself, not just a writer, a badly-written book ONLY makes me stop reading the writer who wrote that book.

It does NOT make me stop reading "all indies."

Because each writer is an individual, regardless of how they come to press.

Entertain me, and I don't care how you got published.

Bore me or show me something shoddy, and I just move on to the next one.

And I think most readers are like that.

_Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## ThePete (Oct 10, 2013)

hermione47 said:


> And they will pay only for well crafted, beautiful books. And those don't take 30 days to write.


You're absolutely correct. 30 days _is _too long for a full time author to spend on just one book.


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## Amanda M. Lee (Jun 3, 2014)

hermione47 said:


> We are talking books, not cakes or shoes! I am not surprised traditional authors are so scathing about self published ones. It should be about the craft, the art, not about getting out as many books as possible.
> You know what will happen, right? Soon enough the reading public will get fed up with paying for badly written serials about vampires/sex gods/shirtless studs and read them ONLY free of charge on fan fiction websites.
> And they will pay only for well crafted, beautiful books. And those don't take 30 days to write.
> In the end, quality always wins out.


I think you're putting your own limitations on others. If you can't write a decent book in thirty days, you certainly shouldn't do it. I've seen plenty of great authors put stellar work out in thirty days.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I must agree with Craig.
Just because one author is bad, does not make All authors bad.
Just because I thought 50 shades was bad, that does not make the Da Vinci Code bad.

Yes I tend to get grumpy around the office when I have been on a bad book streak.  But I don't hold that against all authors indie or trad.
I mean just because one author doesn't know their waist from waste, it doesn't mean all authors are the same way.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

hermione47 said:


> We are talking books, not cakes or shoes! I am not surprised traditional authors are so scathing about self published ones. It should be about the craft, the art, not about getting out as many books as possible.
> You know what will happen, right? Soon enough the reading public will get fed up with paying for badly written serials about vampires/sex gods/shirtless studs and read them ONLY free of charge on fan fiction websites.
> And they will pay only for well crafted, beautiful books. And those don't take 30 days to write.
> In the end, quality always wins out.


You're so cute. And wrong on pretty much every single assumption, even the ones you don't realize you're making.

But go ahead and spit on other people's genres. We all know that romance is crap. *rolls eyes*


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

YodaRead said:


> I think you're putting your own limitations on others. If you can't write a decent book in thirty days, you certainly shouldn't do it. I've seen plenty of great authors put stellar work out in thirty days.


There are ridiculous numbers of trad authors who sit on their backsides 10 months and then write their books in a 2-month whirlwind of fear, too. LOL. Don't assume publishing speed = writing speed for ANYONE.


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

I always think it takes me more than a month to write one of my books but really this is what happens over that month:

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-creative-process-bar-graph.jpg

I can't link it directly because there's a bad word, but I bet a lot of us can identify.


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

Lionel's Mom said:


> I always think it takes me more than a month to write one of my books but really this is what happens over that month:
> 
> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-creative-process-bar-graph.jpg
> 
> I can't link it directly because there's a bad word, but I bet a lot of us can identify.


Yes, that looks very familiar.


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## BenjWall (Dec 10, 2014)

I got lucky off the bat and was making close to that. BUT, it doesn't mean you'll always make that. It's a fickle thing and it can go away quicker than it arrived. So, if you're looking to quit the day job you'd want to have a good sized nest egg to fall back on.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

BenjWall said:


> I got lucky off the bat and was making close to that. BUT, it doesn't mean you'll always make that. It's a fickle thing and it can go away quicker than it arrived. So, if you're looking to quit the day job you'd want to have a good sized nest egg to fall back on.


OT. Your dumb white husband vs zombies was hilarious.


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## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Lionel's Mom said:


> I always think it takes me more than a month to write one of my books but really this is what happens over that month:
> 
> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-creative-process-bar-graph.jpg
> 
> I can't link it directly because there's a bad word, but I bet a lot of us can identify.











Yup...that's me...


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## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

Go to mailchimp and set up a free account. click this link and follow directions, you will need them, it gets confusing. Put the sign up link in the back of every book telling people if they enjoyed the story they can sign up for you list. Then promote the books, build your list, and hope for the best. Warning, it will take a while to build your list and freebooksy and Bknights can help a lot.I mentioned before on another thread you might start with Bknights because freebooksy is expensive. Here's the link for directions on setting up chimpmail. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,165780.0.html 
The link to Mailchimp is actually in these directions.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

hermione47 said:


> We are talking books, not cakes or shoes! I am not surprised traditional authors are so scathing about self published ones. It should be about the craft, the art, not about getting out as many books as possible.
> You know what will happen, right? Soon enough the reading public will get fed up with paying for badly written serials about vampires/sex gods/shirtless studs and read them ONLY free of charge on fan fiction websites.
> And they will pay only for well crafted, beautiful books. And those don't take 30 days to write.
> In the end, quality always wins out.


They have to be scathing. They're under contract for X number of books over X number of years. With many big name writers contracted with the Top Five publishers, that X is 1. Does it take a whole year to write and publish a good quality novel? Absolutely not, that's less than 300 words a day on average, for a 100K word novel. Since the writer has little or nothing to do with cover design, editor schedule, or pretty much anything else besides writing, what's holding him back? The publisher, cut and dry. The big publishers are sticking with their antiquated idea that it's possible to outproduce the marketplace. It's not. Every single day, millions of young minds are sparked by the written word and learn to read. Ergo, every single day, thousands of older children learn they love reading and hundreds of teens discover they like a certain genre. Every. Single. Day.

As Indies, we do all the other work too. Maybe not creating the cover, but we have a heavy hand in it. We handle all the marketing, scheduling, and publishing ourselves, yet many of us write and publish quality novels at the rate of three or four a year. It's nothing to hammer out a thousand words a day, it usually only takes me a few hours. I also spend another few hours self-editing, so my beta readers and editors don't have as many changes to suggest.

Your assumption that readers will stop reading all Indie authors based on a few less than pleasurable experiences is demeaning to the reading public. Do you honestly think they're incapable of continuously finding quality Indie authors to read and will instead wait a year for James Patterson to spin another yarn? Ludicrous! The reading public is far more intelligent than you give them credit and being a reader myself (80% Indie authors) I find it insulting.

Just my $.02 worth.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Lionel's Mom said:


> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-creative-process-bar-graph.jpg


Heh heh. Are there any of us who _don't_ work like this?


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Crayola said:


> I don't make serious bank writing, but it keeps me in cheerios, and my last novel took me 20 days to write and probably another 10 days of waiting for edits, proofing, covers & marketing before launch...


Same time frame (and cheerios levels) over here. With good ratings, and sales I'm quite happy with. I don't get the Sturm und Drang.


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## Mark Tyson (Sep 22, 2014)

KU ruined me. I'm dead inside.

HAHA, saw this beneath youR pic and it made me laugh out loud!


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## I&#039;m a Little Teapot (Apr 10, 2014)

hermione47 said:


> I am not surprised traditional authors are so scathing about self published ones.


We really, really aren't. Every traditionally published author I know personally (including myself) is very live-and-let-live about self-publishing.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I made $4400 in November. I self-edit and make my own covers. And... I only have a mailing list for one of my six pen names. I also don't give a flying crap about being an "artist" or if anyone thinks what I write is "quality." 

I write what I feel like writing if I think it will sell. I actually decided to start a new pen name today so I could write about sex on spaceships. Hmm, zero g sex, that sounds interesting. If I can keep this income up and rising, I'll be buying houses in a year.  

Oh yeah, I've been publishing for a year and a few months, have 48 titles that are mostly novellas or shorter, and most of my books basically cost me nothing to produce. I can just imagine what I could make if I didn't have to take care of a three year old full time with no breaks.


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh Half pint.  I am glad you got out of the situation you were in.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Oh Half pint. I am glad you got out of the situation you were in.


Yeah. I left. I'm living with my mom until Friday. My husband isn't THAT bad. He's been helping me a lot. Kind of one of the better things about being with an Aspie. He's totally logical and loyal when the freak out is over. But I had to get out of that situation. I couldn't keep living like that. Self publishing afforded me a new life. I'm actually thrilled. I can stay home with my daughter and don't have to get a job. Plus, I got to go back to the Northwest to be near my family. Got a place down town in this sweet little Oregon city. I'm really excited.


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## ricola (Mar 3, 2014)

I made $3k my 3rd month that I had paid books out.

I know SO much more about marketing, etc., now that with my new pen name, I fully expect to make that in the first month with my first book and a clean slate.


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## Sheluvspink (May 14, 2014)

Lionel's Mom said:


> I always think it takes me more than a month to write one of my books but really this is what happens over that month:
> 
> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/the-creative-process-bar-graph.jpg
> 
> I can't link it directly because there's a bad word, but I bet a lot of us can identify.


OMG this isn't just me LOL


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## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Half Pint said:


> Yeah. I left. I'm living with my mom until Friday. My husband isn't THAT bad. He's been helping me a lot. Kind of one of the better things about being with an Aspie. He's totally logical and loyal when the freak out is over. But I had to get out of that situation. I couldn't keep living like that. Self publishing afforded me a new life. I'm actually thrilled. I can stay home with my daughter and don't have to get a job. Plus, I got to go back to the Northwest to be near my family. Got a place down town in this sweet little Oregon city. I'm really excited.


I am thrilled to hear all of that. I was a bit worried about you. Glad he is not bad but that you just couldn't live together.


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## Marina Finlayson (May 2, 2014)

Love that bar graph. Just substitute beating up on myself for the crying and that's me.


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## Shannon C (Nov 15, 2014)

Mark Tyson said:


> KU ruined me. I'm dead inside.
> 
> HAHA, saw this beneath youR pic and it made me laugh out loud!


Glad you pointed that out. Too funny!



cinisajoy said:


> OT. Your dumb white husband vs zombies was hilarious.


Can't wait to read this! Thanks for the recommendation, cinisajoy.

I wish I had something helpful to say re: the OP, but I'm new at this, so I don't. But I've really enjoyed reading this thread. And I love that graph.


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## BenjWall (Dec 10, 2014)

Cactus said:


> Can't wait to read this! Thanks for the recommendation, cinisajoy.
> 
> I wish I had something helpful to say re: the OP, but I'm new at this, so I don't. But I've really enjoyed reading this thread. And I love that graph.


I personally thought you were very helpful.

Thanks


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## Evan of the R. (Oct 15, 2013)

Mark Tyson said:


> KU ruined me. I'm dead inside.
> 
> HAHA, saw this beneath youR pic and it made me laugh out loud!





Cactus said:


> Glad you pointed that out. Too funny!


Thanks, but it's not mine - it's a quote from another KBer, the wonderful Mimi / Dalya / Whatever She's Calling Herself Now


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