# The toughest decision...ever.



## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

*EDIT: This thread went nuts! Which is great, because it's really good to gather lots of information before we make any decisions. My replies to many good points folks have raised are in this post here.*

Okay, first: I realize this is the kind of problem people want to have, so boo hoo for poor me. 

Second: I don't know exactly what I want out of this thread...organizing my thoughts? Advice or "here's what I'd do in your situation" posts are welcome.

I've set a date to quit my day job and start writing full-time. Yay! Things are proceeding along a steady course in that regard. My husband doesn't love his job and wants to get back into maintenance/caretaking/building stuff if he can, but he hasn't been finding any really tempting opportunities, so he's just soldiering away at his lame job, and we figured in a worst-case scenario he'd keep working there until the book stuff took off enough that he could justify quitting and doing the promoting/formatting/busy-work aspect of selling books, which would free me up even more to write more content. (But he'd probably find a good job that he liked way before that ever happened.)

Well, he found a job. It's frankly awesome. It's a caretaking/maintenance/building job at a large, scenic property on an island, and on top of the pay, which is better than normal for this kind of work (though nothing mind-blowing), it comes with free rent in a two-bedroom, two-bath house. All we'd have to pay would be utilities. Sounds perfect, right? What a great opportunity for a writer!

The catch: 50% of the job involves caring for a large amount of parrots. I used to be a zookeeper specializing in birds. My husband and I together would be the perfect duo for this job. I have an insane amount of bird-care experience; he could build stuff and fix stuff all day long and never, ever get sick of it. He probably can't do the bird stuff on his own. I've already talked to the proprietors, and they are SUPER keen on hiring us, and like 98% of that keenness is due to my experience working with birds. So I am the deciding factor here.

If we take this job, I'll be doing probably 4 - 5 hours per day of bird care. It's not like that's the worst thing ever. I love working with birds, I'm good at it, it's nice, physical work so I wouldn't have to spend any time at the gym like I do now...no commute eating up precious writing hours. I could easily work in many more hours per day of writing time than I can manage now, with a desk job and a commute and going to the gym daily so my heart doesn't explode when I'm old. The necessary hours for promotion and whatnot might be a little harder to wring out of the day, but if I planned it all just right it might not be so bad.

My biggest hesitation is that I've wanted to do nothing but write full-time forEVER, and now that I'm on the verge of it, we have this opportunity that is so, so, so good...except that it means I won't be writing full-time. Mostly-full-time, but not 100% only-writing, no-other-responsibilities. Write full-time, or don't write full-time and live on an island for free and watch my husband have a great time building and welding and driving a tractor around? This is a dilemma evil enough to make me believe in Satan.

So, okay. I guess I do want to know after all: what would you do in my shoes?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

No, they'd be paying both of us together. We'd be dividing and conquering the tasks: he'd do all the landscaping/maintenance/building stuff, and I'd care for the birds. The ad even says "couples welcome to apply," so I think this is the kind of arrangement they had in mind.

Plus, part of the compensation is _not paying any rent to live on an island._


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Hmmm. This is a hard call.

I like everything except you not writing fulltime.

Could ya'll accept the job, but hire a part time helper that you could supervise?


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

I would take the job.  Sounds like a great opportunity, especially the no-rent.  You'll be able to squirrel away your royalties.  Plus, working with the birds doesn't seem like it would be a mental strain, which wouldn't hamper your writing once you get to it.  You may even be able to plot while you're working. 

Also, I don't think writing full time entails actually writing 10-12 hours a day.  That might be nice for short sprints, but over time that may burn you out.  And finally, having a happy spouse is an important factor to a writer's success. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd do it. The outside work will benefit your writing. You'd basically still be your own boss and get a break from the chair. I think the bird care might actually help your writing. Most writers have other responsibilities, like kids or vegetable gardens. I don't think it would hold you back that much. Over time, you might be able to train your husband to do more of it. 

Your husband will be happy. Having a spouse who does what they love will make it SO much easier for you to allow yourself to do what you love. No guilt.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I'd take the job.
Space the bird-work out so that it's more like breaks for you between writing. You can't sit all day. Like you said, it's exercise. Birds 2 hours in the morning 2 in the afternoon, a final chore at night. The rest of the time is yours. 
Doesn't have to be a forever job, eh? When you're rich like King, you can buy the island, ditch the birds and live happily ever after.

What happened to your sig ?


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

Just so long as the job isn't caretaking an old hotel in the Colorado mountains, I'd say go for it.


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## mrforbes (Feb 16, 2013)

you love working with birds... you love writing... where is the dilemma again? how many people get to do 2 things that they love, and watch the person they love do something they love? 

(that's a whole 'lotta love)


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

OMG. Do it!

Lemme PM you an idea too.


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## Jnassise (Mar 22, 2010)

As someone who's been writing full time for the last decade, I'll say this - having something else to do part of the time is a benefit, not a detriment.  In my case, my brain actually works better when I am focused on delivering product in a given timeframe, rather than just having all day to do as I want.  So knowing I have a five hour window to write today and then I have to go do X allows me to accomplish more than if I had 8 hours to lounge about and get the work done.  Never mind that fact that when I am doing other things, that's when my brain tends to work through plot problems behind the scenes without my really being aware of it, so when I come back to the desk I'm fresh and ready to continue.

I'd say take the job.

Come on, its a freaking island!


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## Lionel&#039;s Mom (Aug 22, 2013)

Oh my goodness, I do understand you wanting to only write, but live for free on an island and care for beautiful birds in the beautiful outdoors Oh my goodness, would I ever take the job. Could you wake up early and get the birds done by ten or noon? Then take a wee nap and write until night time? 

You aren't crazy if you decide not to do it, because writing with no other responsibility sounds pretty awesome too, but I know if I got hired on part time at an island cat rescue, I wouldn't be able to pack fast enough.  Good luck no matter what, and congrats on being able to quit your day job!


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

I'd do it. It's very rare to get to do things other people don't get to experience= great for writing! There will be some ho-hum there with the chores, but over all it sounds like an adventure!


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

Take it. You can always quit if things don't work out. Because the job is so different from sitting at a computer, it might not cut into your writing much. And it might just take a lot of the stress and pressure off.


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Jnassise said:


> Come on, its a freaking island!


Yeah, but it's this island:


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

swolf said:


> I would take the job. Sounds like a great opportunity, especially the no-rent. You'll be able to squirrel away your royalties. Plus, working with the birds doesn't seem like it would be a mental strain, which wouldn't hamper your writing once you get to it. You may even be able to plot while you're working.
> 
> Also, I don't think writing full time entails actually writing 10-12 hours a day. That might be nice for short sprints, but over time that may burn you out. And finally, having a happy spouse is an important factor to a writer's success.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide.


Yeah, what he said.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Patrick Szabo said:


> Just so long as the job isn't caretaking an old hotel in the Colorado mountains, I'd say go for it.


HAHA. When we first found this, I said, "Hey, I bet this job could leave me with a lot of extra time to write." He said, "This is EXACTLY how The Shining started..."

Thanks for the input, guys. It has helped put a lot of things into perspective for me. I appreciate it.

Yeah, I could probably still get in 5 - 6 hours of writing per day, and worked in around all the bird stuff. Not a bad gig, and we'd probably do it for a year while we squirreled away all the money and then bought an even awesomer house than we were hoping to buy already. If I must put off the dream of writing really-for-reals-full-time for another year, I can think of several far worse situations than "practically full-time, plus BIRDS."

We still have some thinking to do, and we need to go see the place in person before we commit to anything, but I might be leaning toward it after reading all of Youse Guise's'es'es* advice.

*It is too real grammar.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

kurzon said:


> Is the wage a two person wage or a one person wage? Because if this job was advertised as being available for a single person, and involves five hours of bird maintenance alone, plus all the other stuff, is it humanly possible for one person to do it?


Well, it's wage plus free rent, so it's kind of hard to quantify that. Here's the ad, for the curious.



> If it was possible for your to "assist and advise" your husband in the more technical parts of bird care for, say, one to two hours a day, then I'd say sure.


That is actually a possibility. He doesn't have the experience for the bird side of the job yet, but honestly most of it's not that hard, and I'd be around to handle any really intense situations and to advise on bird behavior and whatnot, so training him into the bird side of things is a possibility. The proprietors said they don't care how the work gets split up or when throughout the day it gets done, as long as it gets done and everything runs smoothly, so yes, it's possible to eventually transfer the bulk of the bird stuff over to him.



> Well...only if you really really love taking care of birds.


I do...I used to do it professionaly, for a few years. It's an interesting and fun job (most of the time, except for the time a bird pooped into my open eye) but it's not spending all my working hours in a day writing, and that's what I'm on the fence about.



cassidycayman said:


> Could you wake up early and get the birds done by ten or noon? Then take a wee nap and write until night time?


I talked to them about the routine earlier this evening. The bird side of things goes: feed/clean for a little under 2 hours in the morning, around 8:30ish. Feed/clean again about an hour before the birds roost, (so before sunset.) Do a little training with birds that need it sometime mid-day. So there is a lot of flexibility to work writing in there. My big concern isn't so much getting the words written, but doing all the other stuff that goes along with selling books: promoting, formatting, blah blah blah. You know.

We'll see. My husband still needs to have his end of the conversation with them and be sure it sounds like the right thing for him after all.

p.s. LOL, swolf.


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## J. Tanner (Aug 22, 2011)

Birds rock.

If this is 4 hours a day of bird care, and 4 hours a day of maintenance that's a fair deal and I imagine your (non bird-phobic?) husband could also learn some portion of the bird care over time to free more writing time for you as needed. That sounds like a pretty amazing opportunity even with modest pay.

If it turns out to be 8 hours of maintenance a day, and 4 hours of bird care, maybe it's not quite such a great deal (but that really depends on how modest the pay is.)


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## Riley Graham (Sep 1, 2013)

I think it sounds like a great deal for the both of you. From what you said in the initial post, the other option is you writing full-time and your husband continuing in a job he's not thrilled with. This way you both get most of what you want. Yes, you'll be giving up some of your writing time initially, but like others have said, it doesn't have to be forever. Good luck with your decision and congratulations on the opportunity!


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

You're talking about one of my dream jobs, so I'd take it in a hot minute. I already have two parrots and would LOVE to care for birds for a living!


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

Unless you desire to write for 8 hours or more every day, I'd take the job.  You can do both and still accomplish all your writing goals.  

I spend no more than three hours on my fiction each day. After that, for me, it's a case of diminishing returns. 

Spending only up to three hours a day on my fiction still gives me enough time to write all the books I want to write this year, and it leaves plenty of time for everything else.  Even when I get rid of the article writing, I'll still only spend up to three hours a day on my fiction.


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## Anne Frasier (Oct 22, 2009)

this sounds like an adventure!  i'd do it.

it's also quite handy that you were set to quit your other job -- and this came along.


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## GearPress Steve (Feb 4, 2012)

Hmmmm...

"Work" or "No Work"?

Tough decision. So tough, in fact, that it would probably take me about 3 seconds to decide.

"No Work" beats "Work". Every. Single. Time.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

Here's the question: Writing time aside, would you enjoy working with the birds? Stepping away from the computer for part of the day isn't always a bad thing.  

It sounds like your husband would be in heaven. Like others said, in time your husband can pick up some of the bird care duties. And if it doesn't work, you can always go down a different path. (nudge, nudge)


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Thank you all so much for the input.  I really, really appreciate it!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

It's a no-brainer. Grab it. Grab it, right now!

Think of it this way. You'll be a full time writer, with a bird hobby, living on an island rent free. 

You're not there yet?


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Well, you already know I have two parrots, so I would say go for it! Now, I wouldn't make parrots my job because I have 2 as pets and I wouldn't want to get burned out on birds and not give them the attention they deserve (which I'm ashamed to say I do now, sometimes...) I made a career out of a hobby once and lost the hobby. But loved the job.

You like birds, you don't have your own. You get to live on an island. You can train your husband for some of the bird work. Teach him how to clean up after them and feed them. You train them. That's the fun and challenging part.

Girl, you will get excercise and save money that way, too. Yes, yes yes!!!


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## Al Dente (Sep 3, 2012)

The best part is that there are PARROTS! Lots and lots of PARROTS!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

By the way. What island? In the Caribbean?


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## Seppie (Jan 20, 2014)

That wouldn't be a tough decision at all for me - I would DO IT!  I agree with others who have said you can plot and/or record ideas while you are cleaning and doing other parrot stuff (this is what I do while I am traveling for my day job). I think if you do it, you won't regret it, but if you don't do it you might. Writing full time will always be there - an opportunity like this won't be (not that there won't be other great opportunities, but...)


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> By the way. What island? In the Caribbean?


HA!! No, not even close. Whidbey Island in Puget Sound (Washington State.)



1001nightspress said:


> The most important thing is, after you talk this over with your husband, put it to a forum vote. One of those poll things.


Hahahaha! Okay. 


> You can take comfort in this--either way you go, you'll have a nice writing life, and a nice life in general. And no decision is irreversible.


True, true. I'm a lucky duck.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Have you ever tried writing effectively full-time for 12 hours a day seven days a week?

No?

If you had,you would know that your output isn't going to differ much from if you wrote 4-5 hours a day every single day. Your brain needs time to unwind,catch up on ideas and process stuff. You can do that while you work.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> HA!! No, not even close. Whidbey Island in Puget Sound (Washington State.)


I had visions of a tropical paradise, bare feet, margaritas on tap, hot sand, blue water, bikinis, oh and parrots......

Kinda like what I write about.

One of my characters was stationed on Whidbey Island.

Seriously, buy a digital voice recorder you can carry in your pocket while cleaning and feeding. It's usually when one's mind is blank, doing mundane chores that the greatest ideas happen. I keep one in the truck (I'm a professional truck driver) and when an idea hits, I just pick it up and make a voice note.


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## Sarah Wynde (Apr 7, 2013)

I wish there were like buttons for the posts that say what I would say. (Drew, definitely, and ... another whose name I've already lost.) I used to work full-time and write part-time. Now I have the ability to write full-time. But I don't actually get more done because that thinking time still has to happen. It used to happen when I was at work (sorry, work) and now it happen when I'm at home. For me, having a job that gave me room to put my imagination to work on my own stuff, plus two hours a day to translate that into text, would be just as good as having eight hours a day to write. As long as the birds aren't going to consume a ton of mental energy, I think it sounds great. 

And Whidbey! It's such a nice place to live. Are you there already? It's not a great place if you want city-level stimulation, but the community aspects of it--the farmer's markets, the neighbors, the sense of small town, the BEACHES (at least if you're on the Langley side) are so very lovely. I would be so pleased if someone wanted to pay me to live there.


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## Jan Thompson (May 25, 2013)

Free rent on an island? Spending time with hubby doing jobs you like and have the background for? Are you kidding me!

Five hours of work a day is nothing considering that you could write the rest of the time... rent free. You could consider the 5 hours quality research time.



Swolf's post inspired this... (They filmed _Skyfall_ here.)

*"Google employee forced to wander alone on eerie abandoned island for Street View photos..." (Japan Today)
*








http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/google-employee-forced-to-wander-alone-on-eerie-abandoned-island-for-street-view-photos


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## Desmond X. Torres (Mar 16, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> Okay, first: I realize this is the kind of problem people want to have, so boo hoo for poor me.
> 
> Second: I don't know exactly what I want out of this thread...organizing my thoughts? Advice or "here's what I'd do in your situation" posts are welcome.
> 
> ...


El- 
Since you talked from your gut, I'm going to do the same. In other words, I'm going to post first, read thread later b/c you asked straight up.

I feel your dilemma, okay? But at the same time, I think you already really know the answer, and that is take the job that gives you half your dream without the crap of the day job but b/c you'd be working w/ the birds a similar level of security.

I'm glad that I'm responding to you in my current head space-writing FT for almost a year, and zorched myself b/c yesterday was an 8K word day b/c of promotional deadlines. I put up some decent stuff, don't worry-as Tom Wolfe said 'inspired or uninspired, my stuff's not bad' (sorry for the paraphrase) but this gig is a JOB.

And when this gig becomes The Source of The Moolah&#8230; well, if you think you're watching your KDP reports like a Hawk now&#8230; fuggedaboudit. You're going to be watching them with no crappy job safety net.
The gig changes. Yeah, it's freedom when everything's running smooth, but when the sh** hits the fan, you're just one of the zillion of self employed creative types trying to make a living or maintain a lifestyle. And that sh** comes in a lot of colors-health issues become a lot more important b/c there's no sick days. Your relationship becomes even more important.

You look kinda young, so munchkins will be added to the complications.

OTOH&#8230; 
WOW. If there was anything else I'd rather be doing than this, I'd be doing it. This gig totally rocks. And I'd jump all over that 'half loaf' thing. 'Working' in an area you enjoy is a lot better than a commute any day. 
But please understand, if you take this new fork in the road, it's going to be different than all of your expectations.
Anticipation, excitement and fear = thrilling. I can promise it will be a rush.

You're incredibly bright- I've read enough of your books and posts to know this. You're also resourceful and strong. No matter what fork you take, you're going to be okay. 
Please understand that changes like this one come fewer as we (cough) mature, okay?
Don't be shy to PM Elle Casey, HM, or any of the other big guns here. They can fill you in better on what I'm trying to say.
At any rate, no matter how you choose-'Vaya Con Dios'.


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## Maria Romana (Jun 7, 2010)

Patty Jansen said:


> Have you ever tried writing effectively full-time for 12 hours a day seven days a week?
> 
> No?
> 
> If you had,you would know that your output isn't going to differ much from if you wrote 4-5 hours a day every single day. Your brain needs time to unwind,catch up on ideas and process stuff. You can do that while you work.


Yup. Others have said this, so I'm just piling on top, but at one point, I'd been laid off from a job and could write all day. I actually had to find things to do that took me away from the computer, so I could free-think and plot. I took long walks, drives, and --don't laugh-- showers, so I could just disconnect and let thoughts flow freely. To me, the bird time sounds perfect for this. Just sayin'.


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## 69959 (May 14, 2013)

Sounds like it might be a great opportunity for you. Like others have mentioned, it might be a good way to break up the day. Especially if you enjoy parrots!


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## Janet Michelson (Jun 20, 2012)

I had the very same thoughts as Wayne: 

1. No brainer on the financial aspects
2. The mind can brew interesting plots and solve difficult dilemmas while the body does menial tasks. 

Get off the computer and start packing!


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Annnnnd, joining the take-the-job chorus. You can start a blog called _Living and Working with Dinosaurs_.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Thank you all again (still!) for the input.  Especially you, Desmond -- that is some good stuff.  I'm in my mid-30s (hubby is a little bit younger) but I'm not planning on having any kids, so at least that simplifies the future a tiny bit.  

I totally hear what you all are saying, believe me.  I'm taking this all in.  It's a big decision to face and I want to be sure I've listened to all possible points of view and considered everything carefully.  It could be a very nice bridge between a regular day job and a full writing schedule.  The main thing holding me up (aside from the fact that we haven't seen the place where we'd be living yet) is the psychological aspect. I was *this* close to writing full-time!  And now I'm...not.  Possibly.  It's probably a dumb reason to balk, but after wanting to go full-time so badly for basically all of my life, it's a frustration.

Although I think having most days go something like "write for two or three hours, stroll out to do some bird chores for a couple hours, go back in and write for a couple more, rinse and repeat until sunset" might still count as full-time writing.  

In any case, if it works out it could be really good for us financially.  We'd only have to commit to doing it for a year and we'd be all set to buy a nice house.  One year of a chill job that still allows me to write a book a month is something I could survive.


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## Wansit (Sep 27, 2012)

I think it sounds perfect! Take the job and write in your spacious freetime! Oh and send us pictures


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## blakebooks (Mar 10, 2012)

Take the job. Farm out formatting, editing, all the stuff that isn't actually writing. Write four to five hours a day, promote an hour or so a day. Stay off the web while writing. You'll do fine.

But if you try to do it all yourself, you're going to have a hard time of it. So learn to delegate low value tasks and focus on high value ones. My two cents.


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## Rich Amooi (Feb 14, 2014)

Initially, it sounded like a no-stress, no-brainer situation, since you wouldn't have any overhead. Unless, you have lots of other debt from credit cards and such. No rent is huge. That means no pressure. 

The thing that jumps out at me is if you'll have actual peace for writing. Sure, you'll be living on an island. But if those birds are squawking all day while you are trying to write and your house smells like a turd factory, that's another story.

If you do decide to do it and need to work five hours a day for your husband, that leaves nineteen hours in the day. Eight of those hours are for sleep, so that still leaves you eleven hours in the day after you've already worked for him and slept. Sounds like a lot of time for writing to me.

Good luck, whatever you decide!


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## AndreSanThomas (Jan 31, 2012)

I'd take it.  I think you might find that the part-time writing is really, really good too.  Maybe better than the full time.  It will force you to organize your day, give you a break from the writing, probably right when you need it, plus give you a nice bread and butter with the free housing plus salary so there isn't a massive pressure on the writing (which can often cripple the muse).


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## Samuel Peralta (Dec 31, 2013)

Is there a confidentiality clause in the contract?

If not, I'd accept and start writing the novella series "On Wings and a Pair: Life on Whidbey Island"


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## TLarcombe (Oct 12, 2013)

If I were you, I'd take it in a heartbeat. 

Assuming that you put some thought into your books, and I'm sure you do, what would prevent you from keeping a small notebook and pen or pencil with you while tending the birds? Allow yourself to focus on the birds but be ready to pause to write down ideas and inspiration. Personally I find that ideas for my books come much more easily when I'm doing something I enjoy (other than writing). If you're similar in that respect then the potential for inspiration while tending the birds, while away from writing, could be very high.

You said that your husband could do the promoting/formatting/busy-work aspect of selling books. Are his hours in this potential job light enough that he could take over all or part of that from you? If so, then that recovers some time for you to write in.

All in all think of it this way, if you don't take this job are you going to regret not doing so? From what you've said it sounds like you would. In my opinion that right there tells you all you need to know about your choice.

Tom...


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## Key (Jan 6, 2014)

Sorry, I've not read all the replies.  It sounds like a dream job.  It will take the pressure off you to have something to do other than writing that's providing for you, and it will give you time away from the computer to think of new story ideas.  Animal care can be difficult, but it's also good for a person emotionally to be around animals (unless you absolutely hate animals, in which case it isn't!).  It sounds like it would be good for you family, too.    Just my opinions.  You know how people love to share opinions.


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## AgnesWebb (Jan 13, 2013)

This sounds like such an amazing opportunity, and I feel like it can only enrich your writing life. I'd go for it if I were you! Congrats!


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Meanwhile, today on The Onion...










Study: More Children Growing Up In Single-Parrot Households

http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-more-children-growing-up-in-singleparrot-hou,35303/


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

This is me writing full time (and as the sole support for our family, now that my husband quit his job):
7 am   get up, putter around making coffee, feeding the cats, feeding my 10 year old son (we homeschool, so he's home all day)
7:30 am   turn on computer, check sales, drink coffee
8 am  Write
8:20 am  Discover that I closed my file by mistake and didn't click save. Lose the 500 words I just wrote. Curse silently to myself. Start again. 
9-11 am Play tennis (I do this once or twice a week with friends)
11 am  shower, talk to husband, drink more coffee, work with sons on school
Noon  Write
1 pm  Walk with husband to restaurant. Eat lunch. Walk home
2 pm work with sons on school
2:30 pm  Write
4:30 pm  Done writing. 3500 words for the day. 

Some days I write more, some days less. Facebook is in there somewhere and reading The Passive Guy. I don't have any formatting to do at the moment, but if I did, I'd fit it in there somewhere too. Honestly, I've been writing 'full time' for 8 years, and having most of the day to supposedly work ends up with the same amount of work done now as when I had a two year old and had to concentrate my efforts better.

I'd take the job. 
And a happy husband is worth an awful lot.


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## nomesque (Apr 12, 2010)

Sounds like an awesome opportunity. I live on an island and I love it. However... IF you haven't lived on an island before, and IF this is one of those eco-friendly places with no bridge over to the mainland, be aware that there will be stresses, especially if you've never lived in isolation before. And even if there's a bridge, it might be more countrified than you're expecting. Also, keep in mind that island = disaster risk. If there's a huge fire or earthquake, getting out of there could be damn near impossible. I'm not trying to discourage you (not at all!) ... it's just that I see a lot of people move to my (subtropical) island with stars in their eyes, then move away cursing it for being a backwater hick town in the middle of nowhere (well DUH). Me - if I leave it'll be with tears in my eyes. I love this place.


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

mrforbes said:


> you love working with birds... you love writing... where is the dilemma again? how many people get to do 2 things that they love, and watch the person they love do something they love?
> 
> (that's a whole 'lotta love)


This one. What else is there to say?


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## PatriceFitz (Jan 8, 2011)

Such a great thread!

I would never tell anyone what to do (that's a lie... I do that all the time, at least in my mind) but since you asked...

I write full-time because I can, and my husband has a job that supports us.  I procrastinate a lot.  Anyone else do that?  I wrote my first book in a year--it was long, 135,000 words!--while I had my own solo practice (law firm), had two part-time contract jobs at corporations, two kids 2 and 5, one house, and one husband.  And I wrote every spare minute because it was all the time I had.  I was as productive then as I am now.

So, as many have said, you'll get as much writing done and you'll have some breaks to take care of the birdies.  Imagine how good that will look in your bio: "lives on an island with her husband and the 70 exotic parrots in her care."  Cool, huh?  One of the more interesting author bios I've ever read.  And it will give you more grist for the mill, which will make your writing better.  Throw those parrots into one of your books!

Do keep in mind though that isolation thing.  And any change is... well, a change.  That will take some getting used to.

Let us know what you decide!


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## Philip Gibson (Nov 18, 2013)

I get how you feel you might be giving up your lifelong dream of being a full time writer and taking some kind of defensive 'opt out' from your dream.

But sometimes real opportunities can be even better than dreams.

This looks like one of those... Take the job and keep writing!


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## Lefty (Apr 7, 2011)

This is like Bird Man on Alcatraz. Take the job. Congrats.


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

A couple additional thoughts:

*Cost of living on the island (often higher than on mainland). Sure your rent is free, but what are the utilities and groceries and internet costs?

*Hubby can learn about parrots... can he also learn about any of the publishing tasks?

*When you start writing full time, you may find yourself looking for breaktime activities that are pretty much like taking care of these birds.  As someone said upthread: very often the longer your writing day, the less efficient it is.

Just be prepared that when you first start the job, it may take up more of your time than it will after you get used to it.  At first, there may be no time to write at all.  That doesn't mean it will stay that way. And if you truly can stockpile money, you'll end up in a better place than you started.

Camille


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## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Patrick Szabo said:


> Just so long as the job isn't caretaking an old hotel in the Colorado mountains, I'd say go for it.


 

And yes, take the job. Few writers, even those who only worked as writers, wrote 10-12 hours a day.


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## Selina Fenech (Jul 20, 2011)

Everyone is saying take the job, and I feel like saying that too. It seems the sensible thing to do...

I was in a similar situation once, although not nearly as cool as yours (parrots, short hours, free house!). 
Just out of college with my graphic design degree, I applied for a job with an awesome greeting card publisher and only just missed out on the job. I would have LOVED that job. Anyway, I went on and did my own thing and had been making a living off my art for about six months- including selling my artwork to that same publisher- when the publisher calls and says that the girl they gave the job to instead of me had to leave, and they wanted to offer me the job straight up. 

I had only been living out of home for 6 months and as an artist, funds were up and down. The job offered security and working with an amazing design team and it was the job I'd wished for just a year before hand.

No brainer right? I took the job!

What happened? I quit after one week. ONE WEEK. Yeah, I loved the work, loved the people... but one week was all it took me to know that the time spent there was taking time away from my art career, as unstable as it was, and my art career was where my heart was. So I quit at the end of week one. 

It was different to your situation as it was a full time job, and while it was in a visual arts sort of area, anything I designed for that company became copyright to that company, so it isn't really the same as your situation.

I HATE to be the one throwing dissent into the chorus, but I just wanted to share my experience with you. But look, you can always take the job, and quit after one week, right (lol, no, possibly not!)? Still as others said, no decision is irreversible and you'll probably kick yourself if you don't at least try it.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

You had mentioned that you were going to move to Whidbey and buy a house.  This will give you a chance to really get to know Whidbey, and if you want to buy there.
I live on Bainbridge Island. It also sounds like it may give you a good chance to save quite a bit. I don't think four hours of looking after parrots would take very much away from your writing. The 70 acre property sounds cool. Your husband would be happier. 

Take the job.

More points, Whidbey is not all that isolated. Isn't there a military base there? I don't think it is very expensive, but if it is you can take a ferry once in a while and bulk shop elsewhere. There are plenty of coffee shops and such on Whidbey. Bob Mayers lived on Whidbey. I wouldn't mind living there. One advantage of island living is that you feel like you are living in the country in a small community, but you can very quickly go to Seattle. It is very scenic. Once in a while ferry problems will result in your getting stuck there, but not for long.

One more point you'll not have to pay for parking everywhere and that's one thing I really hate about Seattle.


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## Carradee (Aug 21, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> I guess I do want to know after all: what would you do in my shoes?


Barring the religious factors that would give me pause (I don't work Sundays, for instance), I'd probably take the job. But then I know better than to intend to write 100% "full time".

One reason for that is I get bored easily. I have to make sure my schedule has a significant amount of variability, else I get bored and want to toss whatever I'm up to and start something new.

But you may also want to consider: A lot of "full-time" writers don't actually write full-time hours. Even Dean Wesley Smith, when he started posting his daily writing stats, was startled to realize he was often working the equivalent of a full-time job _before_ he did his writing.

ETA: And your husband is a factor in this. The scenario sounds like one in which both of you will be happy, which is important.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

Well, I hate parrots.  So no help there.

But I personally would go stir-crazy if I had nothing to "distract" me from my writing.  The sheer fact that I have to do something other than writing for part of the day helps my brain recharge and keeps me excited about my next writing session.


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## dgrant (Feb 5, 2014)

My husband is the writing spouse of our pair, and it is his full-time job. (No, we're not making that much - he was medically retired.)

That said, I can understand the drive and desire to make the dream come true, the want to achieve your goal - especially when you're _this_ close.

Would it help to approach this opportunity as your husband getting a dream job that requires a few areas of expertise he doesn't have - and you getting a full-time writing gig with a bird hobby? Because if you can reframe it that way (and I have no doubt that you'll be able to teach him how to care for the birds and their behaviors, for when you're in the middle of a crunch and don't even want to take four hours out), then it _is_ your goal. You both win!

edited to add: My husband, on the other hand, thinks you shouldn't take it, because "Jobs expand to fill the space available, and you're the space available. How many hours will it eat up when you're dealing with cold birds, hot birds, sick birds, etc.?"

So, one vote for, one against - but in the end, the deciding votes will be you and your spouse. Do what's best for the both of you.


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## Mark E. Cooper (May 29, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Okay, first: I realize this is the kind of problem people want to have, so boo hoo for poor me.
> 
> Second: I don't know exactly what I want out of this thread...organizing my thoughts? Advice or "here's what I'd do in your situation" posts are welcome.
> 
> ...


Okay, this is me so take with a pinch of salt etc etc...

I would take the job with the parrots and here is why. It's very tempting to jump from full time working to full time writing. I was forced into that and it worked out, but many people try and fail. YOU won't fail if you do it this way. It's perfect! You have the best of both worlds. You basically have an opportunity here to work part time doing a job you have vast experience with lending financial security, you get a new home that you pay minimally for, you make your husband happy which will transfer over to your personal relationship and can only make your writing better (if you make him happy surely he makes you happy), and you get to ease into the writing career more gradually with financial security backing you up--it's perfect.

Don't think of any job you take now as permanent. This parrot job may last 5, 10, 30!! years, but you don't know that. It might last only 3. Think of this as a huge stepping stone toward the full time career.

I am full time. Do I write every minute of the day? No. 5 hours with the birds and 4 or 5 writing every day sounds perfect to me.


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

Take the job! I only say that because I'd absolutely love to work with parrots. But yes, it sounds like a great opportunity, and, you know, your husband's happiness is important too.


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## sarahdalton (Mar 15, 2011)

I know you've had looooaaaads of advice already, but I want to say that this job sounds exactly like the kind of job that aids creativity. It sounds like the kind of job that writers would write about. I mean, there's a romance story in there already - two people working on an Island, looking after majestic birds... It's just lovely!  

Well, apart from the bird poo!


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## belindaf (Jan 27, 2011)

swolf said:


> I would take the job. Sounds like a great opportunity, especially the no-rent. You'll be able to squirrel away your royalties. Plus, working with the birds doesn't seem like it would be a mental strain, which wouldn't hamper your writing once you get to it. You may even be able to plot while you're working.
> 
> Also, I don't think writing full time entails actually writing 10-12 hours a day. That might be nice for short sprints, but over time that may burn you out. And finally, having a happy spouse is an important factor to a writer's success.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide.


I agree with that. I went "full time" about two years ago, not because I was rolling in the dough or anything, but because we had a lot of family circumstances come up at once, including caring for a new baby and my grandfather on Hospice. It was a LOT. Now that most of the trouble is past, I still write "full time", which in actual writing time is maybe 3 -4 hours a day. The rest is plotting, marketing, and procrastinating. It seems like this might be a great opportunity. I'd love a distraction that involved an island paradise and animals. What a win-win! I would think this could be perfect. No stress of living costs, great location, and makes both you AND your spouse happy. What's the worst that could happen if you try? I doubt these opportunities come up often.


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## Elliott Garber (Apr 8, 2013)

I'll join the chorus of parrots here and encourage you to take the position too. I love taking care of animals, and I've found that it's the kind of work that will let my mind wander around fictional worlds even as I complete the tasks at hand. 

The type of work you are doing for the "real" job is just as important as whether or not you have one at all. This seems like a pretty great combination of low-stress work in a beautiful and inspiring setting.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> No, they'd be paying both of us together. We'd be dividing and conquering the tasks: he'd do all the landscaping/maintenance/building stuff, and I'd care for the birds. The ad even says "couples welcome to apply," so I think this is the kind of arrangement they had in mind.
> 
> Plus, part of the compensation is _not paying any rent to live on an island._


Maybe that's because... you won't be living for long on the island!

*cue dramatic thriller music*

Camera zooms in on El and her guy living the casual life on a deserted beach. Wait, there are crosshairs overlaying the screen!

CUT TO:

Liam Neeson sighting up his targets with a laser-scope.

NEESON:
I told you... leave my daughter be and I'd let you live... that I'm a man of particular skills. I warned you I'd hunted down all your relatives and end them like I ended you. Well, I'm not done yet!

TITLE SCREEN

LIAM NEESON IS BACK IN:

TAKEN 4: A RIDE

4-1-2014


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## Kitty French (Dec 3, 2012)

How would you feel turning the chance down? Maybe thinking of it that way will tell you how much you want it or don't want it.
From the outside, it looks like an opportunity tailor-made for you, and they don't come along everyday. 
You get to do two things that you love, your husband is happy, and in time maybe he'd take on some of the bird responsibility to free you up more. It's an adventure, isn't it?


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## zoe tate (Dec 18, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I'd take it, in your situation. It seems to me that if you wait for something "more suitable" than this, you'd probably have a _terribly_ long wait?


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

Now, I do have a child to factor in.  But, trying to put myself in your position, even though I've always wanted to run my own business and work for myself - if I were offered a part-time job doing something I enjoyed for a guaranteed income that would take the pressure off making a success of the writing... I'd jump at it.

The physical work will keep you healthy, and free your brain up to think about your writing.  You'll probably get great plot ideas coming to you while you're working with the birds.

So yes, I'd say go for it!  However, it is, of course, your decision.  Good luck whatever you choose.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

If you decided against it... tell them to call me.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

If you don't take this opportunity, you should be forced to work at McDonald for the rest of your life...full-time at the drive-thru...at half pay.


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## kwest (Mar 16, 2013)

I would do it! The part-time job doesn't sound boring and you're living for free. And if things get really crazy with the writing, you'll always have the freedom to move on and go full-time. Until then this sounds like a good intermediate step.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

Zelah Meyer said:


> Now, I do have a child to factor in. But, trying to put myself in your position, even though I've always wanted to run my own business and work for myself - if I were offered a part-time job doing something I enjoyed for a guaranteed income that would take the pressure off making a success of the writing... I'd jump at it.
> 
> The physical work will keep you healthy, and free your brain up to think about your writing. You'll probably get great plot ideas coming to you while you're working with the birds.
> 
> So yes, I'd say go for it! However, it is, of course, your decision. Good luck whatever you choose.


I'm thinking in the same lines. You'll be at least a little free from stressing out whenever sales dip, or worrying that a bump in sales won't last.


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## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

What an adventure!

However...

You haven't mentioned time off.  Weekends, holidays, illness, book-signing tours....

Your responsibilities sound like 24/7/365.

Still, what an adventure!


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## quiet chick writes (Oct 19, 2012)

Wow! How long do you guys have to commit to? 

Everybody else has said wiser words than I could. I just want to say that I am so jealous of your life, lol!  

But most notably, you are still very young and you have the whole rest of your life to write full time. And offers like this don't come along all the time, if ever again. What an experience to have! I'd take it!


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Is this the place - http://jamiesparrothelp.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/visiting-susan-hilliards-parrot-aviary-on-whidbey-island/

It sounds like a huge undertaking if there's still a lot of new aviaries to be built on the property. It also sounds like they are willing to take volunteers (although this is (or was) a closed to the public aviary). That could reduce your workload or increase it (teaching component).

But, you can get a little bluetooth headset and Dragon Speak and rough draft while you work with the birds. Just beware, some of them may start telling visitors all your plot lines!


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## Magda Alexander (Aug 13, 2011)

I'd take the job. Taking care of the birds would balance out your writing life. And your husband would be happy. Win-win.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

If you DON'T take the job: Will you both regret it? (Sounds like yes)
If you DO take the job: will you both regret it? (from the sound of it I'd say no)


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## Jennifer Lewis (Dec 12, 2013)

I totally get your dilemma. It seems most people think you're crazy not to jump at it, but after reading the ad I think you're right to be wary. It's a very small amount of money for two people, even with free housing included. Could you maybe ask for more (another 10K or so) based on your very extensive experience? The ad also makes it sound like the job is mostly bird care, with some maintenance on the side, so unless you bring your husband up to speed on bird care (and he's really on board with doing it) you will be doing the lions share of the work AND trying to write as close to full time as possible. That would probably not work for me  And Mark P brings up a really good point about it being 27/7/365--if that's true then the salary seems even lower and your writing time more constricted--and you don't get time off to veg and avoid burnout. 

If your husband is up for doing 50% of the bird care as well as the maintenance stuff, and if you can make the money aspect work for you, then I do think it could be a nice transitional step. Having other stuff to do can actually make you more productive because you know you have to use your time wisely, but if you have too much other stuff to do you may just feel stressed and annoyed that you're not able to write more.

Good luck with the decision!


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

Never make a decision without getting all the facts.  That is the what I always told my son and he is older than you.  Of course he never paid any attention to me, but he agreed with me later.

So get all the facts.  Go to the job site and look the situation over before deciding to take the job.  The pay is not much for two people so you need to consider that.

It really depends on your financial situation and if you could make it.  You need to consider that you might end up spending a lot of years in that job instead of just a year.

It does sound like a dream come true.  Taking care of parrots isn't much different than taking care of chickens and I have done that. 

It doesn't sound like you have all the facts right now. So get all the facts and then make your decision.  Good luck to you and your husband.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

Sarah Woodbury said:


> This is me writing full time (and as the sole support for our family, now that my husband quit his job):
> 7 am get up, putter around making coffee, feeding the cats, feeding my 10 year old son (we homeschool, so he's home all day)
> 7:30 am turn on computer, check sales, drink coffee
> 8 am Write
> ...


This is exactly what I'm talking about. You DO NOT have to spend hours and hours and hours at the computer every day to be successful at this. You can be a "full time" writer and still have plenty of time to take care of the birds. 

Currently, I'm a full time article writer and fiction writer. When I get rid of the article writing, this will be my basic schedule:

6:00	Rise 
6:30	Emails/KBoards/Facebook/Twitter
9:00	Run at least 3 miles/Strech for 20 minutes 
10:30	Shower/Breakfast 
11:00	Fiction writing 
1:00 (Take a break - drink a Nutribullet)
1:30 Fiction writing 
3:00	Practice pole dancing or lift weights at the gym 
5:00	Make dinner 
7:00	Read a novel 
10:30	Bed


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## Shalini Boland (Nov 29, 2010)

Think it sounds like an amazing opportunity, as long as 4-5 hours per day with the birds is what it actually ends up being. Is there a contingency for sick birds and other day-to-day problems? 

If your daily bird routine is from 8.30-10-30, what time will you actually sit down to write? 11-12? And then you have to do some training at lunchtime for an hour? So . . . 12 till 1. You have to eat at some point. So then you'll hopefully write from 2 till 4? Then 2 more hours with the birds. And your evenings will be free to write. So that would equate to 3 hours writing during the day, plus evenings, barring any unforeseen problems.

But then it sounds like it's a better writing scenario than you have at the moment. It's got to be worth a try. And the island life would be great for inspiration!

Exciting!!!!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Holy crap, this thread blew up!! I'll try to address some of the major stuff that's been raised/said here. And I really appreciate all the input, tons. Communities like this are so valuable.



blakebooks said:


> But if you try to do it all yourself, you're going to have a hard time of it. So learn to delegate low value tasks and focus on high value ones. My two cents.


Very wise words. Thanks, Russell!



Rich Amooi said:


> But if those birds are squawking all day while you are trying to write and your house smells like a turd factory, that's another story.


Haha, true. The birds live outside in the aviary proper. We'd only have the occasional bird inside if it needed special medical care, although the prospect of having a bird inside at any time is making me hesitate. It depends on how often birds need to be inside the house for special care. If it's frequent, that might be a deal-breaker for me, but if it amounts to a few weeks out of the year it might be feasible.

Everything you guys have said about part-time work being good for writing is true for me, as well. I've found in the past that when I have jobs that get me out of the house and interacting with someone or something I tend to write better and have more good ideas. So if I look at it as breaking up my writing day to get out and farm some inspiration, that could be a good thing.



TLarcombe said:


> You said that your husband could do the promoting/formatting/busy-work aspect of selling books. Are his hours in this potential job light enough that he could take over all or part of that from you? If so, then that recovers some time for you to write in.


We don't know yet, and probably won't know until we're in the thick of it and see what the daily routine shapes up to look like. It's certainly a possibility. It's also a possibility that with time we could transition him to the basics of bird care (at least the feeding and cleaning parts) and I could be around for extra stuff that requires more experience like training, coping beaks, pulling broken blood feathers, etc. The owners have said they don't really care HOW the work gets done or when it gets done, just THAT it gets done every day. It's one of those adventure scenarios where we could probably speculate about it until we're blue in our faces but we just won't know the realities until we're down in the bird poop-filled trenches.



M. Prawnypants said:


> Meanwhile, today on The Onion...


HA! Oh, The Onion... 



Sarah Woodbury said:


> This is me writing full time (and as the sole support for our family, now that my husband quit his job):
> ...
> And a happy husband is worth an awful lot.


That's actually really helpful to see, Susan. Thanks for posting what your average day looks like. I wrote one of my books in three weeks, but that was because I was briefly between jobs and I knew I wouldn't have so much free time to write again for a long time, so I powered through and did 8 - 10-hour days for nearly that whole time. I don't really know what any other authors' full-time writing workday looks like, so it's good to see how you work yours. I don't have kids, so I guess where you have "kid stuff" in your schedule I could insert "parrot stuff" and come out about the same.  I actually worked out the numbers in my head and figured that with about 5 - 6 hours' total writing time in a day, broken up, I could easily do about 140K words per month, which puts me well within what I'd projected I could do with true full-time writing, no additional part-timey stuff.

And I'd love to see my husband doing a job he actually enjoys! He is such a hard worker and I just want him to be happy, but he says the same thing about me and my writing, so we're at an impasse. 



nomesque said:


> Sounds like an awesome opportunity. I live on an island and I love it. However... IF you haven't lived on an island before, and IF this is one of those eco-friendly places with no bridge over to the mainland, be aware that there will be stresses, especially if you've never lived in isolation before.


This is great advice, too. Thank you. Fortunately Whidbey Island is the largest island in the area. It's big enough to have three or four good-sized towns on it, it has several gas stations and grocery stores, and the cost of living is actually really good compared to Seattle, which is what I'm used to. There's a bridge to the mainland at the north end of the island, and we'd be living close to the ferry terminal which is $18 round-trip for a passenger car. Most of what we need for day-to-day life is available on this island. Disasters are always good to think about. Fortunately my husband is in the Coast Guard and my mom lives on a sailboat so there's always the possibility for a private evacuation via boat. 



Philip Gibson said:


> But sometimes real opportunities can be even better than dreams.


True.



Selina Fenech said:


> I HATE to be the one throwing dissent into the chorus, but I just wanted to share my experience with you. But look, you can always take the job, and quit after one week, right (lol, no, possibly not!)? Still as others said, no decision is irreversible and you'll probably kick yourself if you don't at least try it.


No, no, no! This is what I want: a variety of opinion. I want to be sure I'm really looking at this from all possible angles before I commit to anything.



P.A. Woodburn said:


> One advantage of island living is that you feel like you are living in the country in a small community, but you can very quickly go to Seattle. It is very scenic. Once in a while ferry problems will result in your getting stuck there, but not for long.
> 
> One more point you'll not have to pay for parking everywhere and that's one thing I really hate about Seattle.


Yeah -- both things you mentioned are big draws for me! Thanks!



dgrant said:


> Would it help to approach this opportunity as your husband getting a dream job that requires a few areas of expertise he doesn't have - and you getting a full-time writing gig with a bird hobby? Because if you can reframe it that way (and I have no doubt that you'll be able to teach him how to care for the birds and their behaviors, for when you're in the middle of a crunch and don't even want to take four hours out), then it _is_ your goal. You both win!


That's kind of how I'm looking at it. The biggest sticking point with me currently is that truly writing full-time would give me a lot more flexibility with my time and location, so if I wanted to go visit my grandma for a week I could take my writing with me and still get a lot of work done in the day, etc. This would restrict me a little more. There are "relief keepers" available who can fill in with bird care occasionally, and that's a great perk, but it gives me significantly less freedom of movement than I'd planned on having. However, it's not forever.



> edited to add: My husband, on the other hand, thinks you shouldn't take it, because "Jobs expand to fill the space available, and you're the space available. How many hours will it eat up when you're dealing with cold birds, hot birds, sick birds, etc.?"


That is a really great point. Having worked as a keeper before, I know that surprise issues can eat up a lot of time. Fortunately, they don't tend to be frequent occurrences, and with Paul doing the site-maintenance stuff he could take care of a lot of the surprises, as surprises usually involve things like fences and holding breaking or water lines freezing or whatever.



markecooper said:


> I am full time. Do I write every minute of the day? No. 5 hours with the birds and 4 or 5 writing every day sounds perfect to me.


Awesome. This is good stuff.



Dean Crawford said:


> I write full-time but in terms of hours-per-day it's about six hours in two 3-hour stretches in total once I've factored in a lunch break and small daughter duties ( I aim for about 6,000 words total per day on a first draft ). I do marketing and cover-design etc in the evenings and in spare time at the weekends.


More good info to help me manage expectations...thanks, Dean!



belindaf said:


> What's the worst that could happen if you try? I doubt these opportunities come up often.


Yeah, that's what the logical, unemotional side of my brain is telling me. Worst-case scenario: we might not get paid somehow, or something, in which case we still have more than enough coming in from the books to survive. Also worst-case: I feel mildly frustrated for another 12 months. In the grand scheme of things, that's not even worth complaining about.



CraigInTwinCities said:


> Maybe that's because... you won't be living for long on the island!
> 
> *cue dramatic thriller music*


HAHAHHA. It's possible.



Kitty French said:


> How would you feel turning the chance down? Maybe thinking of it that way will tell you how much you want it or don't want it.


My biggest qualm about potentially not doing it is free rent. Man, that would save us so much money! I really want to buy a nice house soon, and that would get us to that goal faster (and get us to a nicer house, too.)



> It's an adventure, isn't it?


It definitely is. Paul is all fired up over the adventure aspect of it. We promised each other a lifetime of adventure in our wedding vows. I guess I wasn't expecting one to present itself so quickly!



MonaM said:


> I'm thinking in the same lines. You'll be at least a little free from stressing out whenever sales dip, or worrying that a bump in sales won't last.


True. Gives me a nice buffer zone between where I am now and really-100%-full-time writing.



MarkP said:


> You haven't mentioned time off. Weekends, holidays, illness, book-signing tours....


Yes. I talked to them about this last night. They do have relief keepers they can bring in for situations, vacations, etc. and that's a nice perk. We wouldn't be paid for the days we take off, as they have to pay the relief keepers and with a small operation like this their operating capital is finite. However, since we have the book money coming in regularly I'm not too scared. I don't think our quality of life would suffer; we'd still be able to take the occasional day off and we'd still be able to do that trip we were planning to take for our anniversary, etc. I might even be able to convince the relief keepers to feed my cats while we're gone if I slip them an extra fifty bucks a day. 

They also said that people who have held the job in the past have opted to do things like put in more hours during the majority of the week, but two days per week only do feeding/cleaning duties and skip the training and cage repair and whatnot, giving a "virtual weekend" with extra-light duties. That's also a possibility.



Christa Wick said:


> Is this the place - http://jamiesparrothelp.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/visiting-susan-hilliards-parrot-aviary-on-whidbey-island/


Yep, that's the place. They do have a lot of work ahead with building new buildings, cages, pathways, landscaping, etc...all of which Paul would really thrive doing. He'd be in heaven. 



Wild Rivers said:


> It doesn't sound like you have all the facts right now. So get all the facts and then make your decision. Good luck to you and your husband.


Yep. We'll be working careful fact-gathering over the next week or so.



Jennifer Lewis said:


> The ad also makes it sound like the job is mostly bird care, with some maintenance on the side, so unless you bring your husband up to speed on bird care (and he's really on board with doing it) you will be doing the lions share of the work AND trying to write as close to full time as possible.


True, and that's worth considering. We still have a lot we need to learn about it before we jump in. I'm not too worried about the pay, as we make pretty good money from the books.



> And Mark P brings up a really good point about it being 27/7/365--if that's true then the salary seems even lower and your writing time more constricted--and you don't get time off to veg and avoid burnout.


Also true, although I don't have any time to veg now. I work full-time, commute, and write as many hours as I can cram into a day. I think it'll come down to the finances for us: is the free rent worth the time sacrifices we'll make for another year or more? Will it really get us closer to our goal of buying a house faster? We'll need to bust out the calculators and slide rules to make the decision, I think.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Sooooo...where we stand today: Paul is going to give them a call this morning and talk to them about "his" side of the job to get a feel for it.  If he likes what he hears, we'll go out and meet them this weekend and check the place out, to see if it's a place we feel we could live and work for an extended time.  I'll update the thread when we know more.  Thank you again, everybody who chimed in!  I read all the responses and are taking them all into consideration.


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## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

When you are busting out the calculators, I believe you have to take the market value of the free rent into account as part of earnings. I'm not 100% sure, so ask a tax guru. 

ETA -- maybe not -- http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/tax-rules-hiring-resident-property-managers.html (but maybe need to make sure that requirement language is in there)


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## Calvin Locke (Mar 6, 2012)

swolf said:


> I would take the job. Sounds like a great opportunity, especially the no-rent. You'll be able to squirrel away your royalties. Plus, working with the birds doesn't seem like it would be a mental strain, which wouldn't hamper your writing once you get to it. You may even be able to plot while you're working.
> 
> Also, I don't think writing full time entails actually writing 10-12 hours a day. That might be nice for short sprints, but over time that may burn you out. And finally, having a happy spouse is an important factor to a writer's success.
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide.


Exactly. Especially the 12hrs a day.

Also, think longevity. I'm not sure how long it's been that you've been making money writing, but with technology things change fast. What if we writers miss a curve somewhere when ebooks cease to be what they are right now?

Sure, the job may not have longevity either, but it's guaranteed money.

Also, it will make your husband happy, which will make you happy as I am sure you love him. If you say no bc of your writing, he may secretly resent your writing. Could drive a stake through the relationship. Hypothetical of course, and no I am not saying it is your job to make him happy (or his for you) but it's part of the bargain.

Good luck. I think you'll find a happy balance.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Sooooo...where we stand today: Paul is going to give them a call this morning and talk to them about "his" side of the job to get a feel for it. If he likes what he hears, we'll go out and meet them this weekend and check the place out, to see if it's a place we feel we could live and work for an extended time. I'll update the thread when we know more. Thank you again, everybody who chimed in! I read all the responses and are taking them all into consideration.


Good luck! If it works out I will be super-excited for you. Make sure you get all the vacation stuff, etc, in writing (it sounds like that's part of the plan but I just feel better saying it...)


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

My wife's nephew is stationed at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island.  He likes living there with his wife and two kids when he is not out on a carrier at sea for months at a time.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

You should totally do it!


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## NothingToSeeHere... (Jul 26, 2013)

I do not consent to the new TOS, and do not give my consent by posting and maintaining my membership here.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

MariePinkerton said:


> A couple things in your post concerned me.
> 
> You mentioned your husband is in the Coast Guard. Is he in the Reserves? If not, be sure not to sign a contract that'll lock you guys in place, just in case he gets transfered.
> 
> Second, you have cats. Are the owners okay with cats? Cats+parrots=bad idea, to me.


Just checked into the thread to see new responses. You guys totally rock my socks off. Christa, thank you for the tax info! Yes, I'm going to insist on a contract and then read the thing obsessively with a ruler...one good thing that comes out of reading all these writers' blogs.

Marie -- he is in the Reserves and this location is actually much closer to the base where he's currently stationed, so it would be an easier commute for him. For his one weekend per month/two weeks a year I'd just chip in with the physical chores while he's off towing boats off of shoals. We know when the Reservist stuff is coming well in advance, so it's easy to plan around, and I could beef up my writing before and after to ensure I was still hitting my targets. The station he's at currently is hurting for people with his rank and specialty, so they're not likely to send him off anywhere else. That gives us as much security as you can ever hope for in the military. 

I talked to the owner and she is fine with the kitties. Most of the time the parrots would be far from the cats, so no danger there. Plus I'm pretty sure my cats would be terrified of a parrot and would stay far, far away. They're afraid of keys and shoes, after all.


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## NoCat (Aug 5, 2010)

Whidbey Is. is lovely! I say as long as you guys like the place and get a good vibe from the owners, etc, go for it!


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Sam Peralta said:


> Is there a confidentiality clause in the contract?
> 
> If not, I'd accept and start writing the novella series "On Wings and a Pair: Life on Whidbey Island"


Great minds think alike.

I was thinking about this same thing.


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## Nancy Beck (Jul 1, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> Sooooo...where we stand today: Paul is going to give them a call this morning and talk to them about "his" side of the job to get a feel for it. If he likes what he hears, we'll go out and meet them this weekend and check the place out, to see if it's a place we feel we could live and work for an extended time. I'll update the thread when we know more. Thank you again, everybody who chimed in! I read all the responses and are taking them all into consideration.


I think this is a good thing to do, and hopefully it'll help you decide which way to go. 

Whatever you decide, good luck!


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## Sarah Woodbury (Jan 30, 2011)

I would also find out what the internet situation is.


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## PatriceFitz (Jan 8, 2011)

Internet connection - important!  Good thought.

Can you ask for contact info for those who held the job before?  If they won't give it to you that's an interesting sign... if they do, you'll get the real scoop from someone who's been there.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Yes -- if we like the place and the owners, we'll definitely be asking for references from past employees.  Internet shouldn't be an issue...it's the biggest island we've got out here, has a big military base on it, several large towns, and a highway running through it, so it's not as remote as some folks might be thinking.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

I dunno, man. Once the dream of doing NOTHING but writing was in sight, I'd have a hard time letting that go. Those "other" responsibilities have a tendency to elbow things out of the way and take precedence. I think you might regret it. The only way I'd do it is if the hubby would resent me for NOT doing it and helping him fulfill a dream.


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## MorganKegan (Jan 10, 2013)

Does anyone else have the theme for Magnum, P.I. running through your head as you read this amazing thread?


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> Once the dream of doing NOTHING but writing was in sight, I'd have a hard time letting that go. Those "other" responsibilities have a tendency to elbow things out of the way and take precedence. I think you might regret it. The only way I'd do it is if the hubby would resent me for NOT doing it and helping him fulfill a dream.


That is the trouble with old guys like vrabinec; he lets practicality get in the way of having fun.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

EelKat said:


> You mention zoo experiance, but WHAT exactly does that mean? You don't say, how many birds you've taken care of at one time before, or how big, or what breeds. I run an animal rescue that specializes in birds. at any given time we have an average of 500 birds on the grounds. It takes a team of 7 people 4 hours JUST TO FEED THEM. We clean the pens/avirayies once a month and TAKE OFF THE ENTIRE WEEK to do it. Yes - that's 7 days of 18 hours straight, no breaks for lunch, just to clean the place. Don't under estimate how heavy the poop is when it's 6 to 12 inches thick. Most of the time required in scraping down the floors, is the fact that we are dealing with very large birds, very large piles of very large poop, and
> 
> They say 70 birds in the add, but there's way more than 70 macaws in the picture. Macaws are noted for not being friendly to people they do not know, they are also noted for tearing off ears, noses, fingers, and poking out eyes. They are dangerous birds, that require special leather gloves when handling. bird keepers have a high rate of plastic surgey to their faces because you are dealing with a very dangerous animal here. That can not be over stated. Yes, it's a very rewarding job, if you are skilled in careing for these types of birds and know how to safely handle them without getting injured.


WTF? Holy crap, man. When you put it THAT way, screw hubby, he can resent me for eternity.


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## Justawriter (Jul 24, 2012)

My mother used to say, 'everything happens for a reason', and it sounds like this could be the ideal scenario for both of you. My brother lives out there and used to own a place on Whidbey Island (still has something there I think) and it's absolutely gorgeous and a not very long ferry ride away for when you want to get off-island.

The only thing I would caution you about comes from my years in HR (the day job). I'm not so sure I'd want a contract….if you don't like it there, then you're stuck. 

Without a contract, you can go and have a wonderful experience. Generally if things are going well, you don't have to worry about being out of a job. And if you get there and decide you don't like it, you can leave.

It sounds like it could be amazing though, great job for hubby, free rent, part-time work that will let you stretch your legs and relax your mind. Imagine all the plotting that might come to you as you're going through the motions of feeding and caring for the birds? 

Good luck, whatever you decide!


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

> My question would be what kind of medical coverage are they including...belive me, I know, as someone who has walked into the hospital carrying bitten off peices of myself...you are REALLY going to need it. I've ended up in the hospital countless times and it's never been less than $4,000 per visit.


I think I am changing my vote to no since I don't want to see ElHawk become a handicaped writer.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

EelKat's post was really long and I admit I just skimmed it because I'm at work, but:

-Bird keepers do not have a high rate of plastic surgery to their face or to anywhere else.  I've been one and I know most of them who are working in North America, so I know what I'm talkin' about here.    Keeping birds can be dangerous, but parrots, even large macaws, are by far not the most dangerous birds I've ever worked with.  I've worked with ratites who could have kicked me to death, a condor with a 15-foot wingspan, several rehab eagles who hated humans, herons who could have stabbed through my eye (and herons have killed people that way before...they're way more likely to  do serious damage than parrots), and African ground hornbills, which can shatter a human femur with a peck, if they really want to.  And that's to say nothing of the Harris' hawk who hated me on a personal level and made a hobby of trying to claw out my eyes every time he saw me.  So I've been in close contact with way more dangerous birds than parrots.  

-We have insurance through the Coast Guard and I don't anticipate using it for any more than the usual healthcare stuff if I work with birds again.  The most serious injury I ever had previously when working with birds was sliced-up fingers from retraining pelicans (they have sharp "fins" along the inside of their bills, but they can't breathe if you hold their bills shut, so if you have to restrain them you have to sacrifice a finger between the halves of their bills to keep them alive.  It hurts, but you survive.)  A macaw is not likely to do serious physical damage to a person who understands avian body language and respects their space when they're thinking about attacking.

-My cats are not going to be running free in the aviary, so I'm not worried about parrots attacking them.

In short, I'll be fine, if I decide to do it.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I had no idea birds could be so dangerous. Interesting. Can they be trained to kill? Thriller writer here always looking for new ways to knock people off!


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I had no idea birds could be so dangerous. Interesting. Can they be trained to kill? Thriller writer here always looking for new ways to knock people off!


Raptors are deadly, fast, and smart. Check youtube, there are plenty videos of raptors taking down large game. I dont know if anyone has trained them to kill people, but those talons could easily slash a juglar, throat, or other vital area, even through clothes. So yeah, I would say so.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I had no idea birds could be so dangerous. Interesting. Can they be trained to kill? Thriller writer here always looking for new ways to knock people off!


Raptors are pretty intense, and trainable, but by far the smartest/deadliest bird I've ever worked with is the African ground hornbill. You could see their intelligence in their eyes. They were like the raptors from Jurassic Park. You just knew they were watching you and planning a way to get you. Amazing, wonderful, beautiful birds, but never was I more aware that birds are just dinosaurs than when I was in an enclosure with those guys. The evolved to break open large tortoises' shells with a peck, so they could easily destroy any bone in the human body with a single stroke if they wanted to...or if you let them get close enough. 

So, UPDATE!

Hubby had his phone interview and he's REALLY excited about this possibility. So I think that basically decides us, for the most part. We still need to find out more information (talk to former employees, check out the property, etc.) before we commit to anything, but it's looking hopeful.


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

I wasn't going to mention it, but Hitchcock's movie The Birds made quite an impression on me as a kid...and not in a good way.



Enjoy, but be careful!


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## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Maybe it's best you're not having kids:


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## Just Browsing (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh, man. So exciting! (And Internet is fine there--I work quite a bit for a few people on that island, in all seasons, and we've never had any email troubles.) I'm coming to visit, I warn you!


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## Wo3lf (Jan 30, 2013)

If I had that chance and I didn't have any kids I'd go. Writing full-time doesn't mean you have to sit for 12 hours behind the desk. The work will be good exercise. It'll give your eyes a break and jostle some plot issues and/or ideas. You said island, right? Go already! ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anne Glynn (Jan 19, 2014)

If you can't do it wholeheartedly, don't bother. 

That said, life is more than your keyboard. If it were me, I'd embrace the adventure, work alongside hubby, and write in the hours that are available when the birds aren't a priority. Also: island life! Sweet!

But it isn't me, of course. So what do you think?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

swolf said:


> Maybe it's best you're not having kids:


Ha...I think that's a sea eagle. Yeah, those guys are dicks. good thing that kid had a thick coat on!


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> Ha...I think that's a sea eagle. Yeah, those guys are dicks. good thing that kid had a thick coat on!


Well more like good thing its a hoax.  It was a college 3D art project.... but yeah.


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## MaggieAmada (Nov 12, 2012)

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you and your husband.  I'd negotiate with him and get him to help with promoting, etc while I'm dealing with birds. I like to renegotiate a lot though, so maybe that's just me.

Congratulations on the great opportunity.

~Maggie


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

ElHawk, you have a very interesting life.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

VydorScope said:


> Well more like good thing its a hoax.  It was a college 3D art project.... but yeah.


Oh, it was? Awesome! Well done.



jnfr said:


> ElHawk, you have a very interesting life.


It's extremely boring most of the time, which is a good thing, all in all.

Okay, latest update: heading to the island to check the place out and meet everybody in person on Sunday. We'll see how it goes!


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

We know her as ElHawk, but her real name is Bond.

Jane Bond.

_Duh-duh-duh-duh_......[Bond theme music]


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## Σ (Jul 27, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> My biggest qualm about potentially not doing it is free rent. Man, *that would save us so much money*! I really want to buy a nice house soon, and that would get us to that goal faster (and get us to a nicer house, too.)
> 
> [...]
> 
> Also true, although I don't have any time to veg now. I work full-time, commute, and write as many hours as I can cram into a day. I think it'll come down to the finances for us: is the free rent worth the time sacrifices we'll make for another year or more? Will it really get us closer to our goal of buying a house faster? We'll need to bust out the calculators and slide rules to make the decision, I think.


If it's something you can easily quit, it seems like a reasonable risk.

Free rent is like buy one, get one free though, and you should just think of it as an extra X per month on top of the salary, where X is your _current_ rent. Don't let the psychological effect of FREE influence your decision

One thing I find helpful is trying to look at the situation in hindsight: It's ten years in the future, do I regret not moving to writing full time? It's ten years in the future, do I regret not being a bird-keeper again?


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## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

Honestly, it sounds perfect. And if you were doing nothing but writing, you'd probably find a less fun way to procrastinate four hours a day anyway -- on the internet, channel-surfing, cleaning, etc. It sounds like an idyllic situation, and you may find it inspires you and makes you more creative, so the 4 hours is worthwhile trade-off.


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## Ben Mathew (Jan 27, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> We know her as ElHawk, but her real name is Bond.
> 
> Jane Bond.


I think the parrots will be more afraid of EL HAWWKKK!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Sophrosyne said:


> Honestly, it sounds perfect. And if you were doing nothing but writing, you'd probably find a less fun way to procrastinate four hours a day anyway -- on the internet, channel-surfing, cleaning, etc. It sounds like an idyllic situation, and you may find it inspires you and makes you more creative, so the 4 hours is worthwhile trade-off.


Yeah, that's the approach I'm taking at this point. I figure it will still allow me the same writing time I'd have if I were doing nothing but writing anyway. It's a little annoying that we'll need to be tied to the location to feed on time, but honestly, that's a minor gripe in the grand scheme of things. If I had horses to take care of, or something like that, it'd be the same deal; the horses just wouldn't be my "job." So I won't get to do as much backpacking as I'd planned this year, and I won't have the freedom to go to conferences and whatnot, but not backpacking at full tilt for a year won't kill me, and there's probably no point going to conferences until I have a dozen more books out anyway, and I can't get there until I've spent more concentrated time writing, so...

We'll see how things look on Sunday. It might work out.

Shaun, good advice on the free rent thing. Thanks. The house is twice the size of our current apartment and average rent prices in the area are half what they are here, so as long as the house is in good repair it'll feel like a more than fair trade-off!


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## bmcox (Nov 21, 2012)

Check it out. If the space is good and the work situation is good, take the job. You all could quit the job at some point in the future if you need. It sounds like a great opportunity, as you describe it. Plus think of your future literary works about birds, islands, isolation, landscaping, birds. Or maybe a post-apocalyptic series about a couple on an island taking care of giant mutant birds. The next _Oryx and Crake_!

BTW Congrats on being able to quit your job and live off your writing. You deserve it.

Edit to add: As you probably already know there's a strong writer's community on Whidbey Island as well as a low-res MFA Program. Maybe you could teach there, on top of all this? Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

VydorScope said:


> Raptors are deadly, fast, and smart. Check youtube, there are plenty videos of raptors taking down large game. I dont know if anyone has trained them to kill people, but those talons could easily slash a juglar, throat, or other vital area, even through clothes. So yeah, I would say so.


Thanks. Will do.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> Thanks. Will do.


Pro tip for your future writing plans: raptors attack with their feet, not their beaks. Their beaks are their cutlery, for chopping up food after they've murdered it to death.

Their feet also have a sort of biological pneumatic device that locks their grip into their prey. One of the things I had to learn when working with raptors was how to crank their feet open again once they'd locked into something they shouldn't be locked into, such as, for example, your co-worker's body. You can pry their toes open with great force, and the locking device makes a crazy, rapid popping noise kind of like a ratchet wrench.

Good times with raptors!


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## Michael Murray (Oct 31, 2011)

ElHawk said:


> *EDIT: This thread went nuts! Which is great, because it's really good to gather lots of information before we make any decisions. My replies to many good points folks have raised are in this post here.*
> 
> So, okay. I guess I do want to know after all: what would you do in my shoes?


Teach him everything you know about parrots and tell him you love him every day when he comes back all befeathered .

If that doesn't work, maybe you could hire a part-time parroteer(itr?) and teach them?


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## daringnovelist (Apr 3, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> It's a little annoying that we'll need to be tied to the location to feed on time...


Sometimes being tied to a feeding schedule helps you keep to your writing schedule.

Camille


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

Sounds like an amazing opportunity. Island life... wait a second. It isn't Greenland, is it?


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## Lisa Grace (Jul 3, 2011)

Sound like heaven. I''ve rehabbed small birds, and had a loving love bird. I'm a parrot lover too, but wish they didn't live so long as it makes them a major commitment. I have a turtle that will most likely outlive me, so taking care of birds, without having to own them, sounds like fun work.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> Pro tip for your future writing plans: raptors attack with their feet, not their beaks. Their beaks are their cutlery, for chopping up food after they've murdered it to death.
> 
> Their feet also have a sort of biological pneumatic device that locks their grip into their prey. One of the things I had to learn when working with raptors was how to crank their feet open again once they'd locked into something they shouldn't be locked into, such as, for example, your co-worker's body. You can pry their toes open with great force, and the locking device makes a crazy, rapid popping noise kind of like a ratchet wrench.
> 
> Good times with raptors!


Glad you mentioned that. Having had birds for a while, though none currently, I guess I took it for granted that everyone would know that about talons vs beaks.  Thought I have had the smaller birds try to peck for worms/seeds/bugs in my shoulder.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

It sounds like a great opportunity.
Best of luck in your decision.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

VydorScope said:


> Glad you mentioned that. Having had birds for a while, though none currently, I guess I took it for granted that everyone would know that about talons vs beaks.  Thought I have had the smaller birds try to peck for worms/seeds/bugs in my shoulder.


I've read lots of falconry scenes in historical fiction that indicate the average writer doesn't know much about how different types of birds hunt.  Scenes of hawks or eagles flying up to prey and then biting it to death.  It's a natural assumption, I guess...the birds most people see hunting most often are little passerines like sparrows and robins, and they do hunt with their beaks. But raptors are about as different from passerines as humans are from deer. Much evolution has occurred since the days when all birds shared a common ancestor...more evolution than has occurred since humans and deer shared a common ancestor.


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## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

A question to ask an accountant:

Will your 'free' rent actually be taxable?


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

MarkP said:


> A question to ask an accountant:
> 
> Will your 'free' rent actually be taxable?


Yes -- I definitely want to check into that before we commit to anything. Even if it is, it may still be worth it, since I'll be able to write off a portion of home expenses due to having a home office for writing.


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## WG McCabe (Oct 13, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> HAHA. When we first found this, I said, "Hey, I bet this job could leave me with a lot of extra time to write." He said, "This is EXACTLY how The Shining started..."


High five to your hubby.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

Don't take the job.

No matter how you found this, the primary job is bird keeping. This is you deciding to work. You will have the brunt of the responsibility. You are the one with the knowledge. The expectations will be on you. Obviously you will balance the decision based on the time and your desire to write. Using your goal of writing full time, this is you getting a new job, and not writing full time.


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

Sounds to me like a dream.

Time to write and a passionate activity to keep your creativity flowing! Some people think that going fulltime to writing is amazing, and _it can be _for some, but honestly I had more creative flow when I was still working part-time. Some of my best ideas came when I was working my other job! I think when you do nothing but writing, the pressure to produce can often be overwhelming. You can bet, if I ever stumble upon a dreamy part-time gig that I can juggle with writing, I'd probably take it.

Good luck in your decision.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Hope it all goes well on Sunday El. Back in the Pleistocene (stone age) some birds grew to a very large size, dwarfing many of today's birds. Scary.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Chris P. O'Grady said:


> Don't take the job.
> 
> No matter how you found this, the primary job is bird keeping. This is you deciding to work. You will have the brunt of the responsibility. You are the one with the knowledge. The expectations will be on you. Obviously you will balance the decision based on the time and your desire to write. Using your goal of writing full time, this is you getting a new job, and not writing full time.


True, and I considered that, but if we do decide to take it, it will allow my husband to do his "dream job" for a short time. He deserves that, and I'm happy to give that support. We agreed that if it cuts into my writing time too much, I'll eventually hand over the majority of the non-specialized bird care to him, with training. (Stuff like feeding and cleaning will take up most of the bird care time, and that's something anybody can learn. It's tasks like restraining birds, medicating, and training that would depend on wider experience, and those kinds of tasks are like 10% of keeping. It's mostly poop.)

Plus, we agreed to limit the time we'd do this work...or at least the time _I'd_ do this work. I'll commit to it for a year, but after that, I'm out. He could continue to do caretaker-y stuff, but if he wasn't able to manage the birds on his own, they'd need to hire a new person for the bird tasks. I'm okay with it, knowing I'm making a short-term commitment.

Kay, I've heard from lots of people that having some kind of daily occupation (whether it's a part-time job or something else that gets you out of the house) helps a lot of full-time writers with the creative aspects of the job. Hopefully I'll be one of those writers who thrives on that sort of thing. 



jackz4000 said:


> Hope it all goes well on Sunday El. Back in the Pleistocene (stone age) some birds grew to a very large size, dwarfing many of today's birds. Scary.


You mean the Terror Bird?  (Best name ever.) So cool. There's a replica skeleton of a Terror Bird at the Burke Museum in Seattle. If you're ever in town, I recommend you stand next to it and imagine what it would be like to see one in the flesh. I wish I had one to ride around like a horse.


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## jackz4000 (May 15, 2011)

Yeah El supposedly they were very fast too, like a modern ostrich, but faster and bigger with a nasty beak. 

Teratorns had huge wingspans some over 15 feet and only went extinct 10K years ago. You'd have to be very careful feeding them. Being light and hollow old bird bones usually aren't found.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> Pro tip for your future writing plans: raptors attack with their feet, not their beaks. Their beaks are their cutlery, for chopping up food after they've murdered it to death.
> 
> Their feet also have a sort of biological pneumatic device that locks their grip into their prey. One of the things I had to learn when working with raptors was how to crank their feet open again once they'd locked into something they shouldn't be locked into, such as, for example, your co-worker's body. You can pry their toes open with great force, and the locking device makes a crazy, rapid popping noise kind of like a ratchet wrench.
> 
> Good times with raptors!


We had one get stuck in the snow and not get out on the fence next to our house years back (we only found the poor thing in the spring thaw). Do their talons ever get 'stuck?'

I'm learning so much in this thread, lol.


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## Chris P. O&#039;Grady (Oct 28, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> True, and I considered that, but if we do decide to take it, it will allow my husband to do his "dream job" for a short time.....


Sounds like you are thinking intelligently about it! I'm not against it  Not that its even my business but you did post up  Just looking at it from the business side, if I was that employer, I don't care what they tell you verbally, they are thinking they are getting a great deal with all your experience. I dont think I saw you post once that your husband loves taking care of birds  You should even consider asking for more since it will prevent you from writing full time.

Hey good luck it DOES sound like a good deal.

~Chrispy~


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

CraigInTwinCities said:


> We know her as ElHawk, but her real name is Bond.
> 
> Jane Bond.
> 
> _Duh-duh-duh-duh_......[Bond theme music]


Ooh, your husband could build an island compound and missile silo for ya.

Ya know, like the Tracy family had...(Erm...Thunderbirds circa 1960s...any?)


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

I was sitting outside in a coffee shop on Bainbridge Island one day. I was very excited because a wild bird was eating crumbs out of my hand. This experience was new to me. Suddenly a bird of prey swept down and grabbed the poor little bird that I was feeding. I felt really bad and shocked.


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

Chris P. O'Grady said:


> Don't take the job.
> 
> No matter how you found this, the primary job is bird keeping. This is you deciding to work. You will have the brunt of the responsibility. You are the one with the knowledge. The expectations will be on you. Obviously you will balance the decision based on the time and your desire to write. Using your goal of writing full time, this is you getting a new job, and not writing full time.


This.

Unless you get from your newly wedded husband _in writing and witnessed by a third party he respects_ that he is going to learn bird keeping from you over the next six months and after that he is going to do all but one of the daily bird keeping hours _on his own_.


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## Trish McCallan (Jul 16, 2011)

Jnassise said:


> As someone who's been writing full time for the last decade, I'll say this - having something else to do part of the time is a benefit, not a detriment. In my case, my brain actually works better when I am focused on delivering product in a given timeframe, rather than just having all day to do as I want. So knowing I have a five hour window to write today and then I have to go do X allows me to accomplish more than if I had 8 hours to lounge about and get the work done. Never mind that fact that when I am doing other things, that's when my brain tends to work through plot problems behind the scenes without my really being aware of it, so when I come back to the desk I'm fresh and ready to continue.
> 
> I'd say take the job.
> 
> Come on, its a freaking island!


This. 
I've been writing full time for just over two years now, and yeah- having that downtime to work on something else, something less mental and more physical really does help keep my brain fresh and my energy high. I work in the yard during the summer, but there's nothing to do during the winter, nothing to give me some time away from the book while my body works. And mental fatigue is high during the winter months. I've ordered a treadmill desk, hoping that helps.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

MonaM said:


> We had one get stuck in the snow and not get out on the fence next to our house years back (we only found the poor thing in the spring thaw). Do their talons ever get 'stuck?'
> 
> I'm learning so much in this thread, lol.


They can unlock their talons consciously, so that wouldn't be what stuck him in the snow (poor guy!) But birds have very cold-resistant feet and legs (their legs are mostly just bone and tendon, not much else, including pain receptors) so I think it's possible that a bird could have landed on a dangerous patch of ground and had his feet freeze into a puddle or into thick mud before he could get free. He'd never realize the water was dangerously cold until it was too late and his feet were ice cubes!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

P.A. Woodburn said:


> I was sitting outside in a coffee shop on Bainbridge Island one day. I was very excited because a wild bird was eating crumbs out of my hand. This experience was new to me. Suddenly a bird of prey swept down and grabbed the poor little bird that I was feeding. I felt really bad and shocked.


Arrrgh! Poor guy! I bet a kestrel **** him. They're little falcons (falcons prey on other birds) who can acclimate pretty well to city living. I wouldn't be surprised to see a kestrel who felt comfortable enough to stoop on a little bird in a human's hand!

Okay, I'm heading for the ferry now to check this place out. I'm keeping neutral about it until I've seen it with my own eyes.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

ElHawk said:


> They can unlock their talons consciously, so that wouldn't be what stuck him in the snow (poor guy!) But birds have very cold-resistant feet and legs (their legs are mostly just bone and tendon, not much else, including pain receptors) so I think it's possible that a bird could have landed on a dangerous patch of ground and had his feet freeze into a puddle or into thick mud before he could get free. He'd never realize the water was dangerously cold until it was too late and his feet were ice cubes!


We suspected at the time his head/wings were entangled in the chain link fence. Poor dude. We love raptors in the neighborhood - helps keep the pigeon population low, plus they're cool - and we felt really bad about him.

Hope the trip out goes well!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

Okay, update!  I thought it was all fantastic.  After checking out the size of the aviary and the number of birds, I think I could easily work in 5000 words per day on top of bird care, no problem...so I'd still get to write full-time, yay!  The house is the most darling little cabin in the woods, but with high-speed internet and a big generator for those long stretches of power loss the island gets due to wind.  I could be very, very happy and productive there, so I told my husband he gets all the say in whether we do it or not.  Once he has a chance to see the property and get a feel for the kind of work he'd be doing, and decide whether he thinks the pay is fair for that work, he gets to make the call.  Either way we go, I'll still be able to get a book a month done, so I leave it all in his hands.

I do have to say, the birds were really great.  As soon as I had one on my hand, all my happy memories of working with birds came back to me and I realized how much I'd missed it.  I still prefer raptors to parrots by a wide margin, but the parrots are pretty fun.


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

How many birds?


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## Cherise (May 13, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> After checking out the size of the aviary and the number of birds, I think I could easily work in 5000 words per day on top of bird care, no problem...so I'd still get to write full-time, yay!


Double yay!


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

VydorScope said:


> How many birds?


About 70, but most of them are in a huge free-flight aviary. It would be way more time-intensive if they all had to be fed and cleaned individually, or in smaller groups.


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## Riley Graham (Sep 1, 2013)

Congratulations! I'm glad you feel so good about things after the visit. Hope it works out!


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## 68564 (Mar 17, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> I do have to say, the birds were really great. As soon as I had one on my hand, all my happy memories of working with birds came back to me and I realized how much I'd missed it. I still prefer raptors to parrots by a wide margin, but the parrots are pretty fun.


This is a good reason to do it for a while - it brings you joy!


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> Well, it's wage plus free rent, so it's kind of hard to quantify that. Here's the ad, for the curious.
> 
> That is actually a possibility. He doesn't have the experience for the bird side of the job yet, but honestly most of it's not that hard, and I'd be around to handle any really intense situations and to advise on bird behavior and whatnot, so training him into the bird side of things is a possibility. The proprietors said they don't care how the work gets split up or when throughout the day it gets done, as long as it gets done and everything runs smoothly, so yes, it's possible to eventually transfer the bulk of the bird stuff over to him.
> 
> ...


Are you expected to do this every day? As in, no days off? That's the part that would wear on me, even if I loved my job, such as you seem to, having that responsibility every day, and every evening, would get old fast. If they have someone lined up to do some of the care, part-time, that would make a world of difference.


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## H. S. St. Ours (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm still happy your spouse got this opportunity, because, you know, the economy. And now that you've seen the place (and the birds) you're not running, screaming away from the idea. The most important this: you be happy. And remember, if it doesn't work out, you can always come crawling back to us. Er, I mean, find another opportunity.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

ElHawk said:


> Okay, update! I thought it was all fantastic. After checking out the size of the aviary and the number of birds, I think I could easily work in 5000 words per day on top of bird care, no problem...so I'd still get to write full-time, yay! The house is the most darling little cabin in the woods, but with high-speed internet and a big generator for those long stretches of power loss the island gets due to wind. I could be very, very happy and productive there, so I told my husband he gets all the say in whether we do it or not. Once he has a chance to see the property and get a feel for the kind of work he'd be doing, and decide whether he thinks the pay is fair for that work, he gets to make the call. Either way we go, I'll still be able to get a book a month done, so I leave it all in his hands.
> 
> I do have to say, the birds were really great. As soon as I had one on my hand, all my happy memories of working with birds came back to me and I realized how much I'd missed it. I still prefer raptors to parrots by a wide margin, but the parrots are pretty fun.


Awesome! Great news.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

MaryMcDonald said:


> Are you expected to do this every day? As in, no days off? That's the part that would wear on me, even if I loved my job, such as you seem to, having that responsibility every day, and every evening, would get old fast. If they have someone lined up to do some of the care, part-time, that would make a world of difference.


We can have substitute bird-feeders come in as needed. We have a few vacations planned for the year, for example, and they'll be able to cover those. And if we had some kind of emergency and had to be away, we could get somebody to cover that, too. But otherwise, no -- it's 7 days a week. It's really no different from having any other care-intensive animal, like horses or goats or whatever. If I had pet horses they'd eat up a few hours per day with turnouts and feedings and occasionally fixing a fence, and all that.

It's a different lifestyle from being in a city and being free to come and go at the drop of a hat, for sure. But anybody who lives with lots of animals or pets that require special care goes through the same thing. (Diabetic cat, anybody? I've taken care of one of those before!)

I think the real potential for burn-out is in the physical maintenance work, not in the bird work, and that doesn't need to be done seven days a week. My husband could easily take a couple of days off from that to get some relaxation in. 

In any case, it's not forever. It's a relatively short-term adventure that will allow us to save up a lot of money. That's how we're looking at it.


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## MonaM (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm so glad! That sounds very doable (I mean, the number of birds sounds enormous to me but I am sure you know what the work entails far more than me) and you'll be able to save money _and_ write.

Now I have my fingers crossed that your husband will get excited about it too!


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## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

ElHawk said:


> Okay, update! I thought it was all fantastic. After checking out the size of the aviary and the number of birds, I think I could easily work in 5000 words per day on top of bird care, no problem...so I'd still get to write full-time, yay! The house is the most darling little cabin in the woods, but with high-speed internet and a big generator for those long stretches of power loss the island gets due to wind. I could be very, very happy and productive there, so I told my husband he gets all the say in whether we do it or not. Once he has a chance to see the property and get a feel for the kind of work he'd be doing, and decide whether he thinks the pay is fair for that work, he gets to make the call. Either way we go, I'll still be able to get a book a month done, so I leave it all in his hands.
> 
> I do have to say, the birds were really great. As soon as I had one on my hand, all my happy memories of working with birds came back to me and I realized how much I'd missed it. I still prefer raptors to parrots by a wide margin, but the parrots are pretty fun.


YAY!


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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

This sounds like a wonderful adventure, El. Please tell us stories while you're there


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Just remember: release the pressure on the boiler once a day. She creeps.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

That sounds like great news!


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## Kitty French (Dec 3, 2012)

Nipped back in to see how the visit went - am really glad you loved it! A step closer to a new adventure. I am LOVING the sound of the cabin the woods.


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## CraigInOregon (Aug 6, 2010)

Kitty French said:


> ...I am LOVING the sound of the cabin the woods.







Yes. Retreats to cabins in woods always end so well...


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## Mackenzie Morgan (Dec 3, 2010)

ElHawk said:


> Okay, update! I thought it was all fantastic. After checking out the size of the aviary and the number of birds, I think I could easily work in 5000 words per day on top of bird care, no problem...so I'd still get to write full-time, yay! The house is the most darling little cabin in the woods, but with high-speed internet and a big generator for those long stretches of power loss the island gets due to wind. I could be very, very happy and productive there, so I told my husband he gets all the say in whether we do it or not. Once he has a chance to see the property and get a feel for the kind of work he'd be doing, and decide whether he thinks the pay is fair for that work, he gets to make the call. Either way we go, I'll still be able to get a book a month done, so I leave it all in his hands.
> 
> I do have to say, the birds were really great. As soon as I had one on my hand, all my happy memories of working with birds came back to me and I realized how much I'd missed it. I still prefer raptors to parrots by a wide margin, but the parrots are pretty fun.


Hope your husband is as pleased with the work as you are. Sounds like a terrific adventure.



ElHawk said:


> We can have substitute bird-feeders come in as needed. We have a few vacations planned for the year, for example, and they'll be able to cover those. And if we had some kind of emergency and had to be away, we could get somebody to cover that, too. But otherwise, no -- it's 7 days a week. It's really no different from having any other care-intensive animal, like horses or goats or whatever. If I had pet horses they'd eat up a few hours per day with turnouts and feedings and occasionally fixing a fence, and all that.
> 
> It's a different lifestyle from being in a city and being free to come and go at the drop of a hat, for sure. But anybody who lives with lots of animals or pets that require special care goes through the same thing. (Diabetic cat, anybody? I've taken care of one of those before!)


I can't leave for a trip on the spur of the moment either, and all I have to care for are dogs and cats. Doesn't sound like a hardship to me since you can have substitutes. I do hope things work out so that you can do this.


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## ElHawk (Aug 13, 2012)

MonaM said:


> Now I have my fingers crossed that your husband will get excited about it too!


He's already super-excited! I haven't seen him this hyped up about anything in a long time. I'm glad he's found something that interests him so much. His current day job is such a drag. (He also has the Coast Guard stuff, which he loves, but it's not every day.)

I told him he has to remain as neutral as possible until he's seen everything in person and had a chance to really evaluate the offer. But I'm 99% sure we're going to do it at this point.



Kitty French said:


> I am LOVING the sound of the cabin the woods.


Me too! I think it will be fantastic for writing. And it's quick and easy to get to Seattle (considering it's on an island) if we need to.

So the next step is for Paul to check it out in person, which he's doing Tuesday morning. He let them know that as soon as he gets an offer for the job he can put in his two-week notice, and I can be up there 30 days after we get the offer.

I checked into the cost to break our lease on our current apartment, and it would end up costing the same amount of money to just continue to pay the rent until we're at the end of our lease, but doing it that way would stretch the cost out over time and hit our savings less dramatically. Since we're moving to an island and have to pay ferry fees on top of all the other moving expenses, that sounds good to me. So if anybody in the Seattle area knows somebody who needs to couch-surf through April and May, and can be trusted to take good care of the place, we'll have a vacant apartment.


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## PatriceFitz (Jan 8, 2011)

How exciting!  

This is like reading a serial in real-time.  

Hey, have you ever thought of being a writer?


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## Kitty French (Dec 3, 2012)

Totally off topic, sorry EL - Patrice, I LOVE your covers. So striking.


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## Sam Rivers (May 22, 2011)

The worse part is packing.


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## m.a. petterson (Sep 11, 2013)

You might consider politely asking for breaking-the-lease reimbursement.

And moving costs.

And a stipend to cover your ferry expenses.

And more - health insurance, IRA, and whatever else it costs over and above where you are.

And a performance-based raise / bonus after the first six months.

And then add in something ludicrous like cat dental coverage, alien abduction protection, and emergency hair coloring if a bird [email protected] in your hair.  This makes them feel good when they deny you, and hopefully agree to everything else.

If they like you (AND I BET THEY LOVE YOU) they will talk.

Put yourself in their position - they have found the PERFECT people.


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## Bec (Aug 24, 2012)

> So if anybody in the Seattle area knows somebody who needs to couch-surf through April and May, and can be trusted to take good care of the place, we'll have a vacant apartment. Smiley


Well, I know this girl called Hallie, but I think you know her too  

Cabin in the woods on an island in the Pacific Northwest sounds bloody awesome!!


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## whist99 (Feb 13, 2013)

Haven't read through all the posts. We live in a very fickle global economic environment. It's always good to have something to fall back on. I made it a point to do the same, although I got blindsided with something else. Good to be out and about for new food for thought. 
Take it and find the best way to adapt - someone mentioned hiring out your position


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## P.A. Woodburn (May 22, 2010)

One last little comment from me. Glad you made a decision. I do hope this is the toughest decision you will ever have to make, if so you'll have one great life.
Have a great time on Whidbey.


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## PatriceFitz (Jan 8, 2011)

Thank you, Kitty! The artist is Mike Tabor... phenomenal.

El -- I agree with Mark. You are in the *best* position you will ever be to negotiate right now. Ask for more. Ask for moving expenses at the VERY least. While you're excited to get the job, they are getting the ideal workers and they are SO relieved, and you are JUST about to take this problem off their hands... so ask now. I think they're getting a phenomenal deal with you.

Let us know what happens!


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