# I Just Can't Write Erotica Anymore



## JessieSnow (Jul 25, 2014)

I think people take for granted how difficult it is to write erotica. I don't mean technically, either. Writing something like, "His gaze burned with intensity," and making sure the punctuation is correct is easy. But it's also easy to Look Inside an erotica book and scoff at the chosen terms, euphemisms, obscenities, typos, and/or bad grammar. It's easy to laugh at unnecessary metaphors, or at dialogue that sounds ridiculous. _Even I could write erotica better than this_, you might think.

But writing erotica isn't a walk in the park. It's also not something everyone can do.

I never thought you needed to have a strong constitution to write erotica... until I started getting terrible bouts of nausea really late at night. I also started having nightmares (when I could sleep) and experiencing anxiety when it came to writing "too much" erotica in a single day. I dealt with it for months. I ignored it, because I was convinced it would get better with time and experience. _I'm not just writing about intimacy,_ I'd justify to myself. _They're more like romance stories with lots of heat thrown in._

There are multiple terms for erotica I don't like to use and despise when other authors use. Namely, the term _smut_. I've always felt that it excluded heavily-plotted erotica and/or made the erotica genre sound cheap. I didn't want my stories to be compared to thinly-plotted, poorly-edited, pink-and-purple-titled books. But once I climbed down off my erotica high horse a little, I realized that neither erotica nor smut are easy to write.

Mentally (and perhaps physically as well, because of the nausea) I couldn't write erotica without feeling extraordinarily guilty, ashamed, and haunted. Haunted is a good word for it. I had other projects going on, perfectly innocent literary writing projects I worked on alongside my erotica. I thought I just needed some balance. In the end, it didn't matter and probably made me more wary of erotica.

Currently, I have four erotica stories in the works, but I'm afraid they'll remain unfinished for now. Because I can't write erotica anymore. It's messing with my head. Despite the money to be made, I don't feel like it's worth it. I might publish every now and then. Five novellas a year, that sort of thing. But my dreams of having fun writing erotica while making boatloads of cash have certainly dwindled and died. I'm not saying you must have a heart of stone to write erotica for a living, _at all_. I'm just saying that I ran into roadblocks I never expected and wasted a good amount of time devoting myself to a genre I might only visit sporadically from now on. It's a shame. But at least I can say I tried.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Far be it from me to tell anyone to write sex.  I often don't at all.  I'm sorry you felt so bad about it but felt like you had to continue.  I think it's interesting to explore why we feel certain ways about writing (especially when overwhelmed, etc.).  Do you think it was a certain kink or something that was making you feel ashamed?  If you wrote sexual situations that felt good to you (like, morally and sexily good, at the same time--no cheating, etc.) do you think you might feel better about it?  

*edit* I'm just curious, but please only answer if you actually want to.    No pressure.


----------



## JessieSnow (Jul 25, 2014)

It's hard to say.

At first, I thought it _might_ be because I was writing gay erotica. I don't have _anything_ against being gay or anything like that. I liked reading it, I liked writing it. But the fact that it's a hot topic even today kind of made me wonder. So I switched to hetero. Set up another pen name, started writing that. Totally consensual, m/f works with lots of plot... and it didn't make a difference. In fact, this whole experience kind of put me off writing romance rated higher than PG-13. It's not that I was raised in a religious or strict household. I wasn't. I was raised in an all-accepting, hippie-ish household. So I'm not quite sure what the problem was. Maybe I just have a weak stomach.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Maybe your muse wants to write something else.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Maybe you just don't like writing sex.  There's nothing wrong with that!  I spent too long feeling ashamed because I didn't like reading or writing sex very much.  But you know what?  Lots of people don't, and they're readers, too!  Best of luck with your latest writing adventures, and may they bring you both joy and peace!


----------



## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> Maybe your muse wants to write something else.


Makes sense to me.


----------



## JessieSnow (Jul 25, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Maybe your muse wants to write something else.


Well, if my muse could please keep it's hands inside the car at all times and not give me nightmares, that would be great.  I might also amend this to "selfish muse" because I was writing what my heart desired right alongside erotica.


----------



## GeneDoucette (Oct 14, 2014)

I have written erotica under the name G Doucette, and it is incredibly draining.  I understand completely.


----------



## 60169 (May 18, 2012)

You don't have to tell me that not everyone can write erotica. I am living proof. That's why all my books are PG - I don't want to embarrass myself.

I hope whatever path you choose works out for you.


----------



## Guest (Dec 11, 2014)

The sicker the better for myself. Lol everyone's different.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Finally, the truth! Writing erotica might seem technically easy, but it requires a mentality that can accept constantly writing about fucking. IT. ISN'T. EASY. Thank you for letting the cat out of the bag.


----------



## HappyToHelp (Sep 27, 2014)

I believe that feeling unsettled, unhappiness, stress, anxiety and other negative symptoms are signs that something needs to change.  If we don't change, then those symptoms get louder and louder until every ounce of our being is screaming at us that we are going in the wrong direction.  I would encourage you to take some time and just breathe.  When you are done breathing, journal.  Figure out what you want to do with this next chapter of your writing life.  Find what really juices you.  You will know when you find it.  Hugs to you.  ...And in a way, I am really excited for you.  I think you are right on the brink of a huge transformation, both personally and professionally.  Keep us posted. <3


----------



## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

When writing erotica, particularly at indie/pulp speed, there is a huge chance of burning out.

In the pre-self-publishing era, I had a nice gig writing historical damsel in distress erotica for a magazine. However, after writing seven stories for the magazine in the space of a year or so, I burned out hard and just couldn't write any more historical erotica. At first I thought it was the MA thesis stress that was getting to me, but there was more to it than that. After seven stories, all the scenarios and sex scenes started to feel the same.

I long since got my rights back to those seven stories and they're still making good money for me as e-books, though I've long since rebranded them as steamy historical romance. But I can't write new stories in that genre/style very often - maybe every couple of months - because otherwise I'll burn out again. And I still haven't finished a novella I started writing way back when, because it turns me off as soon as I open the document. I guess it's because the hero is a jerk (and a pretty damn violent one - he has his archenemy broken on the wheel) and dejerkifying him means going through the whole novella again.

I'm still glad I tried my hand at writing erotica, because the experience was invaluable for my regular fiction. I also still like writing it on occasion, but I just can't do it very often or I'll burn out.


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Jessie, I have two stories that are all done - except for the final scene at the end of each. They've been sitting like that for weeks because I just haven't been able to make myself sit down and write another sex scene. These are both eroms, they're not even anything but sweet vanilla, but that doesn't make any difference. And yes, it can start to mess with your head - not because you're doing anything wrong, but just because you're trying to force yourself to do something you really don't want to do and your subconscious is telling you to take a long walk off a short pier and hug an octopus.

It's not worth putting yourself through that, and after a while it starts to affect your work and people can tell and it starts to impact your sales. I was talking to DH yesterday about this very thing and that it was time to think about switching to a new genre and going back to novels before I burned myself out completely on this stuff. I'll probably continue writing a story every couple of months or so to keep the back catalog from going completely stale, but that's going to be all.

Hang in there, and remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint. You've got to do what works best for you long-term. <3


----------



## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Thanks so much for saying this!

I'm so tired of people treating erotica like it's some kind of cash printing sh** pile. Writing sex scenes, in erotica or romance, is really hard... erm difficult. It takes me forever to write a 2000 word sex scene, and I only have to do it about once a week.

If erotica isn't working for you anymore, write something else. Whether you're writing for pleasure (hehe) or for money, you want something that isn't going to fill you with this kind of negativity.

I've considered dabbling in erotica for a while--I love when my romances get all steamy and I'm a very sexual person--but the pace erotica writers sustain terrifies me. I can't imagine writing even one 10k erotica short a week! And I really can't imagine writing in some of the kinks brave erotica writers write.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

JessieSnow said:


> I think people take for granted how difficult it is to write erotica. I don't mean technically, either. Writing something like, "His gaze burned with intensity," and making sure the punctuation is correct is easy. But it's also easy to Look Inside an erotica book and scoff at the chosen terms, euphemisms, obscenities, typos, and/or bad grammar. It's easy to laugh at unnecessary metaphors, or at dialogue that sounds ridiculous. _Even I could write erotica better than this_, you might think.
> 
> But writing erotica isn't a walk in the park. It's also not something everyone can do.
> 
> ...


Wow I thought I was alone in this.

I agree. There is one thing for writing romance that is heated

Another where its smut. I hold nothing over anyones head but yes it does begin to play with your mind.

There isn't the same satisfaction you get from writing regular stories in erotica for me. Just after you feel like taking a shower. It's smutty and while its nice to see those borrows. Those drop the moment you stop writing.

Without sounding religious or new age or whatever. There is definitely something deep inside each person that guides us. I think for some that has been switched off, tuned out by the noise of their own lives.

For others its clear and it lets them know when they are heading down a path that isn't right for them

I agree Jess.

For me it's not so much that it's hard to write. It's probably the easiest thing I can write as its total nonsense, but i'm not keen on it.

I can write romance
I can write heated sexual romance
I can even write smut but I don't enjoy this one. It makes me feel like a pervert, or a sick individual that should be locked up lol

I also worry that ONE DAY when I am gone and my kids look inside my KDP account they are going to go.. Oh my God I can't believe my parent wrote this. I'm not sure that is the legacy i want to leave behind.

_Edited; if you have a question, please PM me. --Betsy_


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

This is a very interesting thread. I have a fairly filthy mind in general but couldn't write erotica to save my life - in fact my stuff is as squeaky clean as it gets. I've always thought it must be pretty intense having to write about sex all the time, and certainly not as easy as it's made out to be. Hats off to those of you who can do it.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

People forget that erotica authors are authors first. I don't know many erotica authors whose first choice is erotica. Does anyone really WANT to write erotica, or is it a compromise to pay the bills? Personally, I'd much rather write ssf or some kind of intensely personal lit fic, but I write erotica, erom, and romance to pay the bills because writing ANY kind of fiction for a living is a dream come truth. I make the compromise because I am mentally and emotionally capable of doing so. For now.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Half Pint said:


> People forget that erotica authors are authors first. I don't know many erotica authors whose first choice is erotica. Does anyone really WANT to write erotica, or is it a compromise to pay the bills? Personally, I'd much rather write ssf or some kind of intensely personal lit fic, but I write erotica, erom, and romance to pay the bills because writing ANY kind of fiction for a living is a dream come truth. I make the compromise.


I dived into it because I heard there was money to be made. But I wouldn't touch it if there wasn't. Bores me and I think it screws with the mind. ( i'm not talking about guy and girl have heated sex, or guy and guy or girl and girl ) I'm speaking about the weird kinks, the PI. etc.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Another thing is this.

Let's say you breakout with a book and get known.

Then someone in AMAZON leaks out that you wrote all this erotica stuff LOL

That is going to be an embarrassing day if you dived into kinks that were odd


----------



## shellywriterlady (Jun 18, 2014)

I completely understand. I thought maybe I was just having writer's block. But recently I've been wanting to write more sweet romance and less "let's move right to the sex" stuff. It's been a while since I've even read something other than smut type stuff so I've had to slowly transition my thinking process. 

I've been terrified that there aren't as many readers for what I feel like I should be writing. Does that make sense? I like something in between where the main characters still have that chemistry and even some sexual tension but the main basis of their connection is emotional and they don't rush into sex quite so fast.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Interesting that you said "But my dreams of having fun writing erotica while making boatloads of cash have certainly dwindled and died. "

Did you see a drop in borrows and sales

I know I have.

And I have over 20 eroticas on the market.

But I think in the erotica genre so many books are getting published so fast it is driving down the older ones and unless you are kicking out a book every day or every other day, or are writing something longer than 15,000 words. It dies off pretty quick.

Meanwhile all those words you kicked out could have gone to a novel you really wanted to write. One that would hold it's own. I dunno!


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

shellywriterlady said:


> I completely understand. I thought maybe I was just having writer's block. But recently I've been wanting to write more sweet romance and less "let's move right to the sex" stuff. It's been a while since I've even read something other than smut type stuff so I've had to slowly transition my thinking process.
> 
> I've been terrified that there aren't as many readers for what I feel like I should be writing. Does that make sense? I like something in between where the main characters still have that chemistry and even some sexual tension but the main basis of their connection is emotional and they don't rush into sex quite so fast.


Sounds like the contemporary romance market is your fit. That does well, but you and all of us are up against some stiff competition in that market. However I will continue to write in it.

erotica is like writing candy. I can get it done within 3 hours ( 5,000 words )

Any other book takes me literally days to get to 5,000

Which tells you something about that market or me as a writer lol


----------



## Guest (Dec 11, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> Maybe your muse wants to write something else.


I just published my 9th erotica book. 

~~~

Yeah, if this erotica thing is giving you "terrible bouts of nausea," it's time for you to move on.

(BTW, I'm sure I'd get physically ill if I'd tried to write sweet romance.  )


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

shellywriterlady said:


> I completely understand. I thought maybe I was just having writer's block. But recently I've been wanting to write more sweet romance and less "let's move right to the sex" stuff. It's been a while since I've even read something other than smut type stuff so I've had to slowly transition my thinking process.
> 
> I've been terrified that there aren't as many readers for what I feel like I should be writing. Does that make sense? I like something in between where the main characters still have that chemistry and even some sexual tension but the main basis of their connection is emotional and they don't rush into sex quite so fast.


There's definitely a market for that, although title for title you'll probably never make as much money off of them as you would with the hard kink stories. But if you burn yourself out writing harder stories then you won't be making as much anyway, so I figure it evens out. My best seller for over 3 months now has been a longer, sweet "friends to lovers" erom where there's no sex until over 8000 words into the story. It has consistently beaten out the six PIs I did during that time period.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

The real money with a capital M is in full length romance series anyway.


----------



## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

This is funny. I keep thinking it would be fun to write erotica and yes, the money incentive is big (assuming it's done right, of course.) But every time I start to plot, I get the image of one of my kids reading it. So I just can't do it. 
But the really ironic thing is I sorta feel guilty for not being able to write in this genre. I'm looking at my writing as a business, and I feel almost guilty for not developing this line. 
I'm glad I read this. I really do think that given my already looming sense of "shouldn't do it's," writing erotica would probably affect me in ways I hadn't considered. 
Feeling much better about the decision now! Thanks, JessieSnow!


----------



## Charmaine (Jul 20, 2012)

Half Pint said:


> The real money with a capital M is in full length romance series anyway.


+1000
If I were going for the money, I would write romance novels. Regardless of subgenre, romance novels (or novellas) would be where I'd go. 

To OP:
I'm glad for you, that you realized what was the cause of your anguish.

I also agree with what other people have said, that your muse may be some place else.

For me, I LOVE romance books. I <3 tension, but I'm bored to tears at the actual mechanics most of the time. So I realized I like to Read and Write sweet to closed door type romances.

Maybe, the key to what you should write lies in what you like to read.
*HUGS*


----------



## Nymirra (Mar 15, 2014)

The people that can write 5 erotica stories (Stories, not the sleazy mirrors) a week consistently (Consistency as in over the course of a year) are truly rare. I admire those people, in a way. But I don't want to be them. Still, if you can write a good sex scene and don't need to earn $10k/month yesterday (Or any upcoming month of any upcoming year), you can take a more leisurely pace with your releases and still get some alright spending money. I just bought a fairly spiffy laptop with the proceeds from my erotica writing since March of this year, for example. And I'm getting back into writing it, but at a far more relaxed pace.

All that said, I do love writing erotica. I genuinely do. But, having experienced it, I no longer want to write it as the primary creative thing I do for the rest of my writing career. A side thing, sure. Something to supplement income in leaner months, yes. But 2 erotica short stories a week for, say, 20 years? I feel like I'm fairly good at writing sex scenes, and at keeping them fresh and interesting, but that's over 2000 short stories. Each with at least 1 sex scene.

You can write erotica because you love it and are good/decent at it. You really can. But I think you have to be some sort of machine to not want it to be something you also do beside your thriller/fantasy/mystery/whatever novels. Personally, I'd love to turn my erotica writing towards writing optional, explicit interludes to my novels where characters get it on. I know some readers enjoy and want to read that sort of thing, but not everyone. If it's opt-in (buy-in, I guess), then I can go all-out instead of trying to moderate myself a bit so as to not shock the broader audience.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

I would prefer not to read the same story 2 dozen times with only names and locations changed.    It seems this is what some prolific authors do.


----------



## Nymirra (Mar 15, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> I would prefer not to read the same story 2 dozen times with only names and locations changed. It seems this is what some prolific authors do.


It's called mirroring, and it's unfortunately quite common with erotica authors. At least among the more mercenary sorts. It annoys me as much (As an author of erotica) as it does the readers, honestly. Maybe I'm still on the high horse described in the first post when it comes to erotica, but it feels like mirroring unnecessarily cheapens a genre that is already perceived as very cheap.


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

It does cheapen the genre.
Note to the erotic authors, if I am finding all your errors your story is not working.


----------



## Lydniz (May 2, 2013)

cinisajoy said:


> It does cheapen the genre.
> Note to the erotic authors, if I am finding all your errors your story is not working.


Ditto breaking off halfway through a scene to put the broccoli on.


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Tough crowd.


----------



## Guest (Dec 11, 2014)

Half Pint said:


> The real money with a capital M is in full length romance series anyway.


I'm writing erotica under one name and romance under another. (Just not sweet romance.  )

My erotica books are shorts. My romance will be full length series.

I'm really looking forward to 2015.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm hoping to make the plunge to full length romance novels on at least one of my six pen names at some point after I feel my finances are stable and dependable enough to take the time it takes to put out full length books.


----------



## Celeste Carrara (Dec 8, 2014)

I never thought of writing a certain genre just to make money. I could never do that. I'm a big believer in writing in the genre you love, the one you love reading and are most comfortable with. So OP, you tried erotica, and it's not for you. No biggie! Don't be hard on yourself. Write what you feel good about writing.

As for me, personally, I write erotic romance. I love it. It's the genre I love to read and write so it works for me. It's more than ok that it doesn't work for others.


----------



## Michael Buckley (Jun 24, 2013)

M.H. Lee said:


> I think this thread highlights that whatever you choose to write, you have to love it. I did a blog post on this the other day. If you don't love it and you start making money, you'll lose your motivation to continue. You might be able to force yourself to do it while you're desperate for money, but doing something you hate day in and day out is physically exhausting and unsustainable. So, what happens if you do make money at it? You start to feel stuck. Like if you walk away from it, then you'll go back to being poor or a "failure." So you keep doing it even though you can't stand it anymore.
> 
> Best to write what you love.
> 
> I'm also of the firm opinion that what makes a good sex scene is the relationship between the two characters and how that plays out between them in everything they do, including in the bedroom. Stories that are just about part A going into part B without any consideration of who is doing it, quickly lose their shine for both reader and writer.


plus 1- I could not say it better.


----------



## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

M.H. Lee said:


> I think this thread highlights that whatever you choose to write, you have to love it. I did a blog post on this the other day. If you don't love it and you start making money, you'll lose your motivation to continue. You might be able to force yourself to do it while you're desperate for money, but doing something you hate day in and day out is physically exhausting and unsustainable. So, what happens if you do make money at it? You start to feel stuck. Like if you walk away from it, then you'll go back to being poor or a "failure." So you keep doing it even though you can't stand it anymore.
> 
> Best to write what you love.
> 
> I'm also of the firm opinion that what makes a good sex scene is the relationship between the two characters and how that plays out between them in everything they do, including in the bedroom. Stories that are just about part A going into part B without any consideration of who is doing it, quickly lose their shine for both reader and writer.


Yes!

There's this weird belief that erotica and erotic romance (and sometimes even romance) writers don't love what they write or that they are only in it for the money. I'm sure that's true for some, but lots of us love what we do.

I love erotic romance. Whenever I read a sweeter romance, I think this needs hotter sex, this needs more explicit sex, what's with all the stupid euphemisms!!! I get mad at reviewers for claiming relatively tame books are erotic or hot. And doubly mad at authors who intentionally categorize in the wrong genre.

I'm not an expert at it yet, and I have a ton to learn about reader expectations, but I love erotic romance.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

There is nothing wrong with writing for money. I'm a writer by education and trade. I'd sure as hell rather write romance, as a compromise, than to write crappy web content for a living... I've got a three year old to support as a single mom. The assertion that I should constantly love what I write is kind of silly in my opinion. I _like_ everything I write. But if there were a manual that could teach me how to "sell out" even more, I'd pay hard cash for that. I want to write for a living, not have to put my kid in day care, and take care of us both without going on welfare. Frankly, I think those are incredibly noble goals which may actually surpass the nobility of "writing what you love."

Still, I only write erotica (along with the erom and romance I write) because I can stomach it. I have the mentality to be able to deal with it. But believe me, it took me quite a while to even try writing it for the very reason the OP mentions.


----------



## Donna White Glaser (Jan 12, 2011)

I write for money in the genre I love.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Is it possible to love what makes you money? I think it is. I love everything that makes me money. Oddly, if I loved something and then it doesn't make me money, I stop loving it. But, that's just how I'm wired. I'm doing this for a living, not as a hobby. I'm not going to go get a job as a waitress, put my kid in daycare, and get food stamps, so that I can play around with "writing what I love" and so that people on Kboards will approve of me as an "artist." I'm quite proud of myself that I can write fiction full time. Whatever fiction that happens to be. Seriously. What could be better? I have a hard time seeing it any other way.


----------



## a_g (Aug 9, 2013)

Half Pint said:


> Is it possible to love what makes you money? I think it is. I love everything that makes me money. Oddly, if I loved something and then it doesn't make me money, I stop loving it.


For me, if I love something and it doesn't make me money, it drops back to hobby status. That means it gets my attention _after_ my business activities.

But pretty much everything you said, I totally agree with.


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Half Pint said:


> Is it possible to love what makes you money? I think it is. I love everything that makes me money. Oddly, if I loved something and then it doesn't make me money, I stop loving it. But, that's just how I'm wired. I'm doing this for a living, not as a hobby. I'm not going to go get a job as a waitress, put my kid in daycare, and get food stamps, so that I can play around with "writing what I love" and so that people on Kboards will approve of me as an "artist." I'm quite proud of myself that I can write fiction full time. Whatever fiction that happens to be. Seriously. What could be better? I have a hard time seeing it any other way.


 I just don't get how this thread is about you. Some people can't write erotica very well or burn out, and that's fine. I think it's amazing you can support yourself and your child, and kudos to you! I don't think anyone disapproves, and it doesn't matter if they do. But that's...kind of not what this is? Not everyone can write every topic and that's OK. My mom loves those Amish romances, and they earn a lot of money. But honestly, I think I'd slit my wrists if I had to write them. It's just not me. Fortunately I have other ways to earn money writing right now.


----------



## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

This is normal. I had the same issue and asked "is sweet romance still selling?" as my way of wondering if I should walk away. And I don't even write erotica, just harder romance.  My advice is to think about what you really want to write, and write it. Then see if you can fit what you know sells somewhere within.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm simply explaining how a person can enjoy writing for money and why that is okay. I'm a bit irritable because I've gotten a lot of flack for writing erotica from a lot of different people. My mother actually accused me of "being addicted to writing porn" because of my work ethic. I'm like,"No mom, I'd rather be writing other things. What I'm addicted to is, you know, like, eating..."


----------



## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

Half Pint said:


> I'm simply explaining how a person can enjoy writing for money and why that is okay. I'm a bit irritable because I've gotten a lot of flack for writing erotica from a lot of different people. My mother actually accused me of "being addicted to writing porn" because of my work ethic. I'm like,"No mom, I'd rather be writing other things. What I'm addicted to is, you know, like, eating..."


Conversations about writing with one's mother are awkward in general, I find.  I must admit I'm lucky, though. Mine actually said to me once, "Don't write something just because you think I want you to!"


----------



## M.G. Russell (Sep 23, 2014)

Half Pint said:


> There is nothing wrong with writing for money. I'm a writer by education and trade. I'd sure as hell rather write romance, as a compromise, than to write crappy web content for a living... I've got a three year old to support as a single mom. The assertion that I should constantly love what I write is kind of silly in my opinion. I _like_ everything I write. But if there were a manual that could teach me how to "sell out" even more, I'd pay hard cash for that. I want to write for a living, not have to put my kid in day care, and take care of us both without going on welfare. Frankly, I think those are incredibly noble goals which may actually surpass the nobility of "writing what you love."
> 
> Still, I only write erotica (along with the erom and romance I write) because I can stomach it. I have the mentality to be able to deal with it. But believe me, it took me quite a while to even try writing it for the very reason the OP mentions.


I just wanted to say I really respect your work ethic and willingness to do what you have to do to take care of yourself and your child. Bravo!!!


----------



## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I've been reading a lot of different types of "commercial successes" lately, doing research on writing something that will sell... and while it's obviously just me because these are super successful books... I find that a lot of the sex scenes are _so boring._ They don't really fit with the story, there's no believable build up. It's just kind of like "time for sex! Get on with it," regardless of what's going on in the story at the moment.

I'm just having a really hard time with a lot of what sells. I just don't think I can write perfect-and-curvy-not-fat woman meets billionaire-perfect-abs-never-even-looks-at-another woman guy and they fall in love in a week. They have a tiff over a miscommunication and might break up! But they sort it out and within a month they are married. And have sex every other chapter.

Sigh. Just... sigh.


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

You left out how he must have a devastating, dark secret in his past that torments him night and day and he compensates by insisting on being in complete control of everything around him and dominating any woman in his life.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

M.H. Lee said:


> I think this thread highlights that whatever you choose to write, you have to love it. I did a blog post on this the other day. If you don't love it and you start making money, you'll lose your motivation to continue. You might be able to force yourself to do it while you're desperate for money, but doing something you hate day in and day out is physically exhausting and unsustainable. So, what happens if you do make money at it? You start to feel stuck. Like if you walk away from it, then you'll go back to being poor or a "failure." So you keep doing it even though you can't stand it anymore.
> 
> Best to write what you love.


This is so true.

Jessie, as I was reading your post, I could see myself fifteen years ago, when I was still writing advertising copy. In the beginning, I loved it. I was living what I thought was my dream. I had always wanted to be a writer and I was finally doing it. After years of dealing with demanding clients, constant deadlines, and living on coffee and TUMS, I burned out so badly I ended up taking an outside job for a fraction of the money just to get away from writing. And I stayed away from writing for _years_.

It's great that you are addressing your feelings now, before burning out on writing, entirely. There comes a point when no amount of money is worth staying in a career that makes you miserable. You have to take care of yourself, and do what makes you happy.


----------



## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

I think the trick is in the pacing. I knew I could never keep up with the pace required to be a mega-seller in erotica, so I didn't even try. Burn out is a scary thing to be faced with, and, in the end, it's just not worth it. You should also start at the pace you mean to go on, letting your readers know not to expect a gazillion books a year from you. I release a new 3-book erom series (the collection no more than 35k words) about 3 times a year. They take just under a month each to write and publish, so that's 3 months out of 12 that I spend on this stuff. It's a pace I can sustain, and it pays the bills and finances my "real" projects. 

My advice would be to take a real break from erotica, and also limit your exposure to erotica writer forums. While it's great to hear about other people's success in the genre, the dream of similar riches could pressure you to write things you're not comfortable writing.


----------



## Guest (Dec 12, 2014)

cinisajoy said:


> It does cheapen the genre.
> Note to the erotic authors, if I am finding all your errors your story is not working.


Okay, I'll just fill it with the letter A. That should be okay, right?


----------



## JessieSnow (Jul 25, 2014)

Thanks, everyone! I think I was half-expecting a few defensive comments, but the response has been really positive and I appreciate that.



Lady Vine said:


> I think the trick is in the pacing. I knew I could never keep up with the pace required to be a mega-seller in erotica, so I didn't even try. Burn out is a scary thing to be faced with, and, in the end, it's just not worth it. You should also start at the pace you mean to go on, letting your readers know not to expect a gazillion books a year from you. I release a new 3-book erom series (the collection no more than 35k words) about 3 times a year.


This is probably the route I'm going to take, just publishing erotica or erom every now and then. Until next time, I've got other projects to keep me busy.


----------



## EC (Aug 20, 2013)

What's the current state of play in the erotica market?


----------



## DGS (Sep 25, 2013)

Those talking about burn outs - does one make you walk out of the genre or writing altogether?  Is there a point where even putting words in order gets to you? What's then, woodwork?


----------



## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

LOL! I don't get the billionaire thing either. I prefer less quantity and more quality of sex. I'd rather have four long sex scenes than sex every dang ch.

I was feeling super burnt out a few months ago. Too much writing, work, health issues, AND family obligations. I had to pull back and take a few weeks off writing. I used my free time to read, watch TV/movies, go out in the world!!! It helped a lot.


----------



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Half Pint said:


> People forget that erotica authors are authors first. I don't know many erotica authors whose first choice is erotica. Does anyone really WANT to write erotica, or is it a compromise to pay the bills?


I always wanted to write erotica and by now I've been doing it for nearly fifteen years. First regularly published, now self-published. But then, I never call it "smut" and I write literary erotica, not porn. These two are distinct things, regardless of how many people insist they are the same. They also sell rather differently.

Sex scenes are the easiest for me in a story and I look forward to them. They are the pivotal plotpoints and I enjoy inventing, choreographing and writing them. I don't have dozens of them in a story, often there are just two or three minor sex scenes leading up to the final one.

OP: I can't conceive of writing something I am ashamed about. I can't believe anything satisfactory can come out of that. If sex disgusts or shames you to the point of being unable to write it freely, then maybe it was never meant to be and you have hang-ups you haven't worked out or don't want to overcome. Or, possibly, you are forcing yourself to write sexual acts and sexual behaviour you don't or can't endorse, like cheating or promiscuous sex. In that case the solution would be easy: cease writing the forms of sexuality which displease you or are against your own morals and ethics. Instead write what you can support. There are readers out there for everything.


----------



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Celeste Carrara said:


> I never thought of writing a certain genre just to make money. I could never do that. I'm a big believer in writing in the genre you love, the one you love reading and are most comfortable with. So OP, you tried erotica, and it's not for you. No biggie! Don't be hard on yourself. Write what you feel good about writing.
> 
> As for me, personally, I write erotic romance. I love it. It's the genre I love to read and write so it works for me. It's more than ok that it doesn't work for others.


You nail it.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

I still think this "write what you love" thing is kind of comical. People not only write things they don't love for income (journalists, staff writers, copy writers etc), people all over the world, every day, do jobs they down right hate. I love writing fiction. No matter what the fiction happens to be. I also like everything I write. I don't _hate_ it. I find erotica fun and easy even though it gets old at times. But I would rather be writing things other than erotica and romance in a perfect world where I got everything I wanted and the streets were paved with gold. I don't think it's wrong to be a realist. I _love_ writing fiction for a living, so there you go. It's pretty simple. Genre is a pretty minor consideration in the big picture scheme of things.


----------



## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Half Pint said:


> I still think this "write what you love" thing is kind of comical. People not only write things they don't love for income (journalists, staff writers, copy writers etc), people all over the world, every day, do jobs they down right hate. I love writing fiction. No matter what the fiction happens to be. I also like everything I write. I don't _hate_ it. I find erotica fun and easy even though it gets old at times. But I would rather be writing things other than erotica and romance in a perfect world where I got everything I wanted and the streets were paved with gold. I don't think it's wrong to be a realist. I _love_ writing fiction for a living, so there you go. It's pretty simple. Genre is a pretty minor consideration in the big picture scheme of things.


Good for you. People are offering OP advice, not you. It sounds like you are already happy with what you write, even though erotica and romance are your second choices.

But not all erotica or romance writers would rather be writing another genre. I'm tired of people acting like it's some kind of lame consolation prize when they'd rather be doing "real writing."


----------



## Nic (Nov 17, 2013)

Half Pint said:


> I still think this "write what you love" thing is kind of comical. People not only write things they don't love for income (journalists, staff writers, copy writers etc), people all over the world, every day, do jobs they down right hate. I love writing fiction. No matter what the fiction happens to be. I also like everything I write. I don't _hate_ it. I find erotica fun and easy even though it gets old at times. But I would rather be writing things other than erotica and romance in a perfect world where I got everything I wanted and the streets were paved with gold. I don't think it's wrong to be a realist. I _love_ writing fiction for a living, so there you go. It's pretty simple. Genre is a pretty minor consideration in the big picture scheme of things.


It's usually easy to tell what is being written without liking it. That's one of the things I noticed reading self-published books. Some read like people loved writing them, others like someone just did a job. Very pronounced by the way in erotica and erotic romances.

Self-publishing managed to even out things there. Now you get books exclusively written to make money, to be "the job", often clearly not much appreciated beyond putting bread on the table. That used to be different, because it took some passion to keep battering at the doors for years.

The result? Often lacklustre or lacking books. Or, as with the OP, people doing things they don't really want to do (usually also easy to tell apart). Or people finally able to do what they love. And anything in between.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

Crystal_ said:


> Good for you. People are offering OP advice, not you. It sounds like you are already happy with what you write, even though erotica and romance are your second choices.
> 
> But not all erotica or romance writers would rather be writing another genre. I'm tired of people acting like it's some kind of lame consolation prize when they'd rather be doing "real writing."


God. I don't look at it like that at all. I consider everything I do real writing. I also don't think anyone should do any job that makes them sick. I thanked her for being honest about the reality of writing erotica in the beginning of the thread. 
I don't think there is anything wrong with writing with money in mind. I really don't. And I don't think it makes a less viable product. My imagination comes up with all kinds of things. I enjoy using it. I think any time this subject comes up, there are factions. I just happen to be on the side that thinks writing for a living, ie money, is an honorable thing to do.

I've gotten so much crap from my family since I told them I write erotica, it makes it even harder to admit I "like" it. I do like writing it. And romance. I'm getting much better at writing romance after a year of reading everything I can get my hands on. But the honest truth is that it isn't my first choice. Sorry. Not sorry. I'd rather write romance than work for minimum wage or write articles about diets any day of the week.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Half Pint said:


> I still think this "write what you love" thing is kind of comical. People not only write things they don't love for income (journalists, staff writers, copy writers etc), people all over the world, every day, do jobs they down right hate.


That's their choice. But if it is making a person miserable and/or taking a toll on their health, and they have the option to do something they love doing, why not?


----------



## Shannon C (Nov 15, 2014)

vlmain said:


> It's great that you are addressing your feelings now, before burning out on writing, entirely. There comes a point when no amount of money is worth staying in a career that makes you miserable. You have to take care of yourself, and do what makes you happy.


This.


----------



## Redacted1111 (Oct 26, 2013)

vlmain said:


> That's their choice. But if it is making a person miserable and/or taking a toll on their health, and they have the option to do something they love doing, why not?


I completely agree. But the truth is, you still have to make a living. It takes a long time to build up enough titles to make a living no matter what you write. Might have to get a job you don't "love" in the meantime. What alternatives are there?


----------



## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

JessieSnow said:


> Well, if my muse could please keep it's hands inside the car at all times and not give me nightmares, that would be great.  I might also amend this to "selfish muse" because I was writing what my heart desired right alongside erotica.


I wonder, are you extremely sensitive to the opinion of others? People who are vocally against erotic writing can be threatening. Some will say that the author will burn in hell, others say the author should be sexually harmed and so on. Even if a person isn't against erotic writing, female authors attract unwanted attention, some of which can also feel very threatening. Employers, even liberal ones, might think having an erotica author on the payroll is a hazard for the company's public image. Then, let's say the author is a parent -- now there are teachers and the parents of other children to worry about.

Do you think that knowledge of all the above is worming its way into your head?


----------



## Abalone (Jan 31, 2014)

It's mentally draining, IMO, because actual sex is in itself. If one must think about sexual situations while maintaining a quality story or book, then one would sufficiently be exhausted from doing so. I've done a few erotica shorts that sell alright for vanilla material. I have a lot of respect for romance writers or erotica writers that sell quality literature and write 120K+ word novels. I have no idea how you do it. In the time it takes me to write a 20K word erotica short, I could write a decent first draft of an action-adventure novella.


----------



## Kenzi (Jul 28, 2014)

Half Pint said:


> I completely agree. But the truth is, you still have to make a living. It takes a long time to build up enough titles to make a living no matter what you write. Might have to get a job you don't "love" in the meantime. What alternatives are there?


I write romance and erotic romance because that's what I enjoy writing. BUT that's the thing--I don't want writing to be another job that I just do to make a living. What would be the point? If you don't love what you're writing, you might as well go out and get a regular job. The only difference is that you can do one in your pajamas and you'll probably have better insurance and less of a tax headache in the other.

It's great that you can love whatever you're writing, no matter the genre, but not everyone can say the same.

ETA: I didn't mean for any of that to sound snarky. I apologize if it came across that way.


----------



## Drake (Apr 30, 2014)

I write erotica, and I agree that it's not easy.  It doesn't give me sleepless nights though.  It's tough to write anything you are uncomfortable with.  I'm having trouble writing villains myself.


----------



## crow.bar.beer (Oct 20, 2014)

It makes sense to me that it can become easy to get burnt out writing erotica, especially if it's just straight-up sex. It's far too easy for it to become a matter of just rehashing the same sequence of action if there isn't something generating a unique quality to the experience. 

I personally took time off from working on my romance/thriller novel that was a year and a half in the making and probably another half year to go in order to make an attempt at writing erotica, to start making some sustainable income in the meantime. My mind quickly made it about creating an original serial with a lot of plot, I think because my mind is resistant to just grinding out something meaningless to me to make money. But fortunately I'm in a situation where it's not too necessary to make bank so fast, or else I'd definitely prefer to do that instead of working a different type of job on someone else's concrete terms. 

Also I think if a writer is in any situation where something in what they are doing isn't flowing properly, even if it's just a particular scene or something wrong with a certain character's dialogue, they need to take a step back and reassess what is happening with themselves, emotionally, psychologically. Fiction really seems to me to be an unconscious means of the author sorting through things in their own life, it's just an automatic process, all that emotional and dramatic content has to come from somewhere, and the good stuff always results from the tensions and complicated forces from within the author's own life. 

Like with my novel in progress, it was a huge, hard shift to working on the series I'm working on now. And I was wondering what was going on with that, why it happened, and it became apparent that so much had changed in my own life that all the psychological, dramatic type stuff going on with me that was fueling that novel just wasn't there like that anymore, and my mind needed something more adapted to where it was currently. Weird stuff.   But in the end very insightful...


----------



## crow.bar.beer (Oct 20, 2014)

M.H. Lee said:


> First, my comments about loving what you write weren't meant to attack those that are doing whatever they have to to get by. But as someone who spent fifteen years getting deeper and deeper into a career that became more and more profitable and less and less enjoyable, I'm just trying to warn that you can get to a point where you feel stuck. I walked away from that career to write, because, even though I made $6 my first month, I'd rather make a living at writing than in that career I spent fifteen years building. That is NOT an easy decision to make. Every single day I question whether that was the right thing to do. I also know that with a phone call or two I could easily go back to it, so every single day I have to recommit to my writing. Fighting "easy money" is HARD.


Wow, that was very touching.  Kudos for finding the resolve to be courageous and act on your own sense of personal fulfillment!


----------



## C. Gockel (Jan 28, 2014)

First of all, I want to say, that I think erotica writers provide a valuable product. I know of some women who only are able to keep their libido alive by reading erotica--and by extension their marriages.

What I'm saying OP, is that I hope you don't feel bad about your time writing erotica. You probably learned a lot as a writer, but you're at the point where you need to move on.

There are markets for people who don't like detailed sex--I don't like detailed sex scenes. I have gotten a FEW comments about my stories needing to be more explicit, but most of my readers are grateful that they aren't. I hope you can use your erotica backlist for an income base and write what you love.


----------



## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

MyraScott said:


> I've been reading a lot of different types of "commercial successes" lately, doing research on writing something that will sell... and while it's obviously just me because these are super successful books... I find that a lot of the sex scenes are _so boring._ They don't really fit with the story, there's no believable build up. It's just kind of like "time for sex! Get on with it," regardless of what's going on in the story at the moment.
> 
> I'm just having a really hard time with a lot of what sells. I just don't think I can write perfect-and-curvy-not-fat woman meets billionaire-perfect-abs-never-even-looks-at-another woman guy and they fall in love in a week. They have a tiff over a miscommunication and might break up! But they sort it out and within a month they are married. And have sex every other chapter.
> 
> Sigh. Just... sigh.


LOL Yeah vanilla romance can get boring.

I think thats why i lean more towards suspense romance. So I kill a few people. Otherwise it just sounds like teenagers rowing about how the other one didn't hold their hand.


----------



## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

kalel said:


> Wow I thought I was alone in this.
> 
> I agree. There is one thing for writing romance that is heated
> 
> ...


Sick and twisted, conscience turned off, dark path wandering, perverted smut writer who should be locked up reporting for comment.

Lol, it probably sounds like I'm about to rant, but I just find it funny. Judge not, lest ye be judged and all that.

To the OP, I agree. I wouldn't want to write anything that made me physically ill or messed with my brain either. What's the saying? Recognizing that it is a problem is the first step to healing, right? Something like that anyway? Good on you for listening to your body, and your not yet switched off guiding (soul/God/Goddess/conscience/whatever you believe in) thingy. And I say that honestly, not sarcastically. I know some might not believe I'm not saying that sarcastically, cause sarcasm is my first language, but I mean it.

Writing things that make you ill is soul crushing. It's good that you not only recognized it, but obeyed it.

I amuse myself to no end, because as an erotica writer, when I'm reading romance with a plot, tension etc, I find myself skipping the dirty parts to get back to the 'story.' But when I'm reading erotica, the dirtier the better. I crack myself up every time I skip stuff, since the skipped stuff is what I write, lol.

Anyway, just wanted to support you in your decision. People are wide and varied in their everything. What's right for some, isn't for others. I personally get bored writing romance, and love popping of the dirty, naughty shorts. That just means there is more choice for everyone, reader or writer. Live and let live, and all that. Basically the same reason I did like that A book, actually. Offer up whatever you want to offer up. Let readers decide what they want to read, they are as varied as we are.

Me? I am at peace with my soul, my conscience, my God and my family, and I pray you find peace as well. (Honest to God, still not sarcastic.  )


----------



## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

kalel said:


> ... So I kill a few people....


Wow, talk about divine timing. Just saw your post after I posted mine. Totally not judging, but I think it's funny that fictional killing of people doesn't warp your path like fictional smut does.


----------



## Brian Drake (May 22, 2010)

I'm not a fan of sex scenes, either, though I did do one where I tried to make it funny. The sexy femme had dragon breath, and kneed the hero in the stomach while trying to shift, and he spent some time out of breath. Kinda killed the mood so then they got up to go steal stuff and run afoul of sneaky Russian agents.

On the flip side, writing graphic violence can have the same effect, because you're always finding new ways to describe somebody's guts spilling out, and it gets old after a while. Don't worry, you're not a feeb or anything!


----------



## Maxime LICH (Aug 13, 2014)

Personnaly I am fond to write erotic books, but what I like is to write original love stories, mainly lesbian oriented, because women love stories are romantic, and erotism is less... hardcore than man-woman or man-man ones. I think many ladies saphic oriented like lesbian books...


----------



## wtvr (Jun 18, 2014)

I just can't write erotica either, but that's because it doesn't make as much money as other genres for me. It's a really competitive market and the top 100 aren't seeing a whole lot of new faces. With the changes within Amazon, it looks like maybe the importance of a private mailing list has increased quite a bit. A lot of what was said on this board made it sound like easy money but it's really not. You have to be really lucky or really, really good.

I don't think anybody should feel bad about bowing out of a market that isn't profitable for them, for any reason. If it makes you feel weird, or if it's not working for you then just don't do it.


----------



## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Jessie, you shouldn't feel ashamed about anything. You tried something, and found it doesn't work for you. That's valuable knowledge. Now go forth and write something else! 

And to those ragging on Half Pint: lighten up. She has just as much right to post her opinions on the subject as any of you. Geez, it's no wonder my ignore list is growing like mushrooms in the dark. 

_Edited to remove quoted post. --Betsy_


----------



## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

Half pint, your posts point out some incredibly practical points that people don't always like to face head on.  I totally agree- art and business is a balance.  If you don't balance, one of the other suffers.  Extreme art doesn't always sell well, highly commercial stories don't always satisfy the reader or the writer. 

Jessie, thanks for being so open and posting your very personal experience!  It does help a lot of people to hear that the "write erotica to become a millionaire" advice isn't as easy as it sounds.


----------



## Rachel E. Rice (Jan 4, 2014)

" I can't write erotica anymore," these were my very words to my husband a week ago. I wrote and published two stories a week since the 7 day challenge in October. I was determined to stop because I found myself dreaming about the stories and through my dreams, I became one of the characters in my story. 

I think this all came about because I had little information about this genre, and because a little information is a dangerous thing. Nevertheless, I persevered and continued writing; I don't like to give in to tough things. Erotica writing is all consuming, and you have to constantly feed the beast if you have no clue of what it is you are doing.

Furthermore, nothing you do in life is wasted.


----------



## J.B. (Aug 15, 2014)

kalel said:


> Another thing is this.
> 
> Let's say you breakout with a book and get known.
> 
> ...


This is something to worry about if you're a school teacher or running for office. As far as it affecting a writing career, look at Anne Rice. The first time I read about A F was in her Beauty series - that's an odd kink - and it didn't kill her sales... as far as I can tell.


----------



## Honeybun (Nov 25, 2012)

JullesBurn said:


> This is something to worry about if you're a school teacher or running for office. As far as it affecting a writing career, look at Anne Rice. The first time I read about A F was in her Beauty series - that's an odd kink - and it didn't kill her sales... as far as I can tell.


I"m racking my brain and coming up empty. What is A F as a kink? Please pm me if you can't say it openly. Thanks!


----------



## corysilk (Dec 11, 2014)

It could always be worse, some people can't even make money writing erotica.


----------



## Vivian_Wilde (Nov 4, 2014)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> Okay, I'll just fill it with the letter A. That should be okay, right?


And we have a winner! See, erotica authors can have a sense of humor 

Why doesn't humorous erotica sell? *asks no one in particular*


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

Honeybun said:


> I"m racking my brain and coming up empty. What is A F as a kink? Please pm me if you can't say it openly. Thanks!


Using the letter A as Filler, of course.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

KelliWolfe said:


> Using the letter A as Filler, of course.


----------



## Christa Wick (Nov 1, 2012)

Honeybun said:


> I"m racking my brain and coming up empty. What is A F as a kink? Please pm me if you can't say it openly. Thanks!


AF isn't a kink. F is right next to R on the keyboard. I believe she was abbreviating Anne Rice's name. Writing as (I believe) AN Roquelaire, the Beauty series is extreme BDSM and nonconsensual. I love some of AR's work, but Beauty was my first and biggest wall banger as a reader.


----------



## Sophrosyne (Mar 27, 2011)

kalel said:


> I also worry that ONE DAY when I am gone and my kids look inside my KDP account they are going to go.. Oh my God I can't believe my parent wrote this. I'm not sure that is the legacy i want to leave behind.


Yup, that's my fear too. Especially since KDP won't let you delete books.

I agree -- not everyone is cut out to write erotica. It always surprises me when I hear erotica get bandied around as everyone's go-to genre. Not everyone can do it -- or should I say, not everyone can do it well. I guess that's kinda like sex in general. Everyone can do it, but not everyone can do it well.

I do know a guy who (I think) would be hugely talented at erotica. He's had to tone down his sex scenes in his novels, because they're way too hot and the novels aren't romance. But more than hot, they're really well-written. Like literary works of erotic art. He'd definitely do well in erotica in terms of the subject matter. The speed of the writing, however, would be his stumbling block.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

Sophrosyne said:


> Yup, that's my fear too. Especially since KDP won't let you delete books.


Not my fear. My adult children know all my dirty little secrets, but they love me anyway.


----------



## Lady Vine (Nov 11, 2012)

Lol, it's also not my fear. When it comes out (yes, WHEN), it will probably improve my sex life!


----------



## M.G. Russell (Sep 23, 2014)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> Not my fear. My adult children know all my dirty little secrets, but they love me anyway.


Yup, me too. I have great adult kids and they are just fine with what I do. We have a great relationship and we respect each others choices.


----------



## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

Am I missing the punchline to an inside joke?

Is this a real thing?

I could swap out "I just can't write time travel/scifi/fantasy/horror/adcopy/poetry/work at 7-11/abide my toenails painted teal/eat any more Camembert/whatever any more".

Easy solution? Then don't. Sheesh.

It's not as if anyone forced you to begin or will force you to continue or will force you to stop.

I'm gonna guess you're an adult and can decide whatever/whenever without co-signatures.

SMMFHIC


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

LBrent said:


> Am I missing the punchline to an inside joke?
> 
> Is this a real thing?
> 
> ...


Wow. Insensitive, much? The OP was pouring out her heart to us, and she doesn't need that kind of negativity.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

anniejocoby said:


> Wow. Insensitive, much? The OP was pouring out her heart to us, and she doesn't need that kind of negativity.


I agree. How about showing a little support.


----------



## Hoop (Nov 22, 2014)

462 words in the OP, plus multiple response posts, all to say "I don't like writing erotica, I don't think I'll do it anymore".

Just think how much further along you'd be in your "this doesn't make me nauseous" book if you hadn't shared this earth-shattering decision with us.



vlmain said:


> Wow. Insensitive, much? The OP was pouring out her heart to us, and she doesn't need that kind of negativity.


Wow. Oversensitive much? Missing a bit of perspective?
Perhaps Swolf can start a thread in the morning about what he chose for breakfast, and we can all commiserate on his soul-wrenching decision between eggs over easy or an omelette.


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

I'll reiterate. The OP obviously is in distress, and she came to the boards for some support. That's really all she wanted, I think. The same reason why a lot of us come to the boards. Writing is such a solitary activity, and you don't always have people to talk to. So, if she's like a lot of us, this board is almost like a family. There's absolutely no reason to make her feel like crap for coming on here and sharing something that is obviously very distressing for her.

No reason at all.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Hoop said:


> 462 words in the OP, plus multiple response posts, all to say "I don't like writing erotica, I don't think I'll do it anymore".
> 
> Just think how much further along you'd be in your "this doesn't make me nauseous" book if you hadn't shared this earth-shattering decision with us.
> Wow. Oversensitive much? Missing a bit of perspective?
> Perhaps Swolf can start a thread in the morning about what he chose for breakfast, and we can all commiserate on his soul-wrenching decision between eggs over easy or an omelette.


Geez, who peed in your cereal? You're being downright rude.


----------



## JessieVerona (May 10, 2013)

anniejocoby said:


> I'll reiterate. The OP obviously is in distress, and she came to the boards for some support. That's really all she wanted, I think. The same reason why a lot of us come to the boards. Writing is such a solitary activity, and you don't always have people to talk to. So, if she's like a lot of us, this board is almost like a family. There's absolutely no reason to make her feel like crap for coming on here and sharing something that is obviously very distressing for her.
> 
> No reason at all.


I can't know for certain, but perhaps the general consensus in this thread that writing erotica is something only soulless sickos can do for any length of time might have made some of the erotica writers around here feel like crap?


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

JessieVerona said:


> I can't know for certain, but perhaps the general consensus in this thread that writing erotica is something only soulless sickos can do for any length of time might have made some of the erotica writers around here feel like crap?


I haven't seen anyone imply that you have to be a soulless sicko to write erotica. Some people are happy doing it. That's fine. Others have problems with it. That _should_ also be fine. They have as much right to discuss their feelings about it as you do. And I see no sense in anyone being rude or minimizing the OP feelings. I'm not saying you did, but another poster has, and it's really uncalled for.


----------



## anniejocoby (Aug 11, 2013)

vlmain said:


> I haven't seen anyone imply that you have to be a soulless sicko to write erotica. Some people are happy doing it. That's fine. Others have problems with it. That _should_ also be fine. They have as much right to discuss their feelings about it as you do. And I see no sense in anyone being rude or minimizing the OP feelings. I'm not saying you did, but another poster has, and it's really uncalled for.


This!


----------



## Revolution (Sep 17, 2012)

I don't know how to right sex scenes that differ from all the rest. It seems like all mine end up the same bloody way regardless of the characters.


----------



## LBrent (Jul 1, 2013)

vlmain said:


> I agree. How about showing a little support.


Telling the OP, without pompous posturing, that she can do...whatever...without ANYONE'S permission is negative and insensitive?

For real?

I'm merely pointing out that no permission from strangers on a forum are required to achieve her goals.

If she doesn't want to do...whatever...then don't.

I'm sorry if I don't see what the great dilemma is.

Perfect example?

Right now I'm going to stop listening to the wind blow.

Easy.



vlmain said:


> I haven't seen anyone imply that you have to be a soulless sicko to write erotica.


Really?

Hmmm.

At any rate, no one needs permission for that either.


----------



## yallapapi (Apr 18, 2014)

I wasn't going to comment on this but here goes. I have written nearly 100 erotica shorts in the past few months and at one point, had gone through this very same problem. I always write in the morning, and before going to bed the night before I would experience anxiety and fear when I thought about how I would have to write the next day.

Plain and simple, this is a case of good old writer's block. Not the type where you can't think of what to write, but the type where you're afraid that your fiction sounds plain old stupid. I'm not sure if everyone goes through it, but I know I sure did. I would be busy typing away and my gf would ask me what I was writing.

"Its so terrible. Its shit." I would say. I would be writing erotica. A silly plot followed by two or more people who start getting down and dirty for no good reason. I have to say I know exactly what the OP means when she says it is hard writing erotica.

Now.. I will tell you how I solved this problem, how I made it so that I can get up in the morning and write a short story without any feelings of guilt whatsoever, knowing that what I write is a tightly-knit story which has a beginning, middle and end. 

Here it is, ready? Very simple: Just start the sex scene in the first paragraph of the story.

Please excuse me for talking about stuff like this on this forum, but I'll try to be the opposite of graphic. Its like watching a porn. Do you really want to know why the characters are about to get nasty? Chances are you probably don't care about the story because you only have one goal in mind, if you know what I mean. Erotica is kind of like that. You have to give the people what they want.

If they want to read 90% story with 10% sex, they will pick a 300 page romance novel. If they want to read 100% sex, they will read erotica. Its that simple. A "plot" in erotica is very noble, and some people can pull it off but IMHO, you want to avoid giving people that "when is the sex scene going to start?" feeling. Don't make them flip through your book to find out when the good stuff is going to happen. Give it to them in the first paragraph. This will also help your sales because when people click on the preview of your book, they will see the good stuff right away and be like, "okay, this is good."

Once again its like when you see an attractive cover of a book, it will get their attention. Its the same thing.

That's the big secret, really. Start the sex scene early and you'll never have writer's block again. You just need to come up with a thin, 1 sentence premise for the book. 

For example, I just wrote a 3 part series where a girl gets home from work, exhausted, and wants to relax with an adult movie. But something happens and she gets sucked into the TV. Its pretty stupid and cliched, and I would never pay 3 dollars for it let alone download it for free, but believe it or not there are plenty of people out there who would. 

Just come up with a simple idea, for example: girl goes shopping, gets freaky with sales assistant in dressing room. That's your plot right there. You can handle the rest of the "intently burning gaze" and stuff like that.

Also, use thesaurus.com, especially in the beginning. During the steamy scenes, it can be difficult to come up enough synonyms to keep the scene fresh, especially when you write a lot of them.

Finally, I would also encourage you to go over to Dirty Discourse. I recently signed up there and it is full of good information, erotica/romance authors who are very very supportive. Kboards is great as well, don't get me wrong, but there is more support for erotica authors over there.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed my long post. Good luck!


----------



## crow.bar.beer (Oct 20, 2014)

Hoop said:


> 462 words in the OP, plus multiple response posts, all to say "I don't like writing erotica, I don't think I'll do it anymore".
> 
> Just think how much further along you'd be in your "this doesn't make me nauseous" book if you hadn't shared this earth-shattering decision with us.


I think it's wonderful you are emotionally evolved enough to feel what the OP is going through emotionally is trivial.

I think one of the next steps in emotional evolution is recognizing that, even if *you* are emotionally-resolved in one particular regard, it doesn't mean that other people are or _should_ be in that same particular regard at that point in time.

So it's no big deal to you. It's obviously a big deal to her if she's wishing to speak about it in public with friends, acquaintances, and total strangers.

Does _that_ make you uncomfortable, for some reason? That she'd do that? Why?


----------



## Speaker-To-Animals (Feb 21, 2012)

There's a whole lot of handwringing here about how shameful and disgusting it was to write erotica and how people would be horrified if anyone knew they actually did it. Maybe people should be a little more sensitive about how much slut shaming is going on?


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

Kat S said:


> There's a whole lot of handwringing here about how shameful and disgusting it was to write erotica and how people would be horrified if anyone knew they actually did it. Maybe people should be a little more sensitive about how much slut shaming is going on?


+100

This is essentially the problem with discussing erotica at Kboards. We can't link to any of it. We can't have erotic books in our sig line. But it's perfectly fine to discuss how disgusting and shameful it is.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

M.H. Lee said:


> Add to this the different perspectives on writing "erotica." The post a few up from this where the poster says to just get to the sex and skip any sort of development of a relationship is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how I view erotica. To me what the poster describes is porn. Erotica in my view describes sex between two people that is driven by and dependent on the relationship between those two people. (And for anyone reading this, that type of writing sells, too, even at short lengths. You don't have to track down the craziest kink you can find and drop all plot or character development from your stories to generate sales.)


Yes, that's *your* view and *your* definition of erotica. I'm glad you made that clear.

I've been writing erotica since 2000. So that's over 14 years. Erotica comes in *many* forms. Furthermore, there are many sex-positive erotica writers who don't have a problem with the word "porn," and who don't care if you call their erotica porn.


----------



## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

JessieSnow said:


> I think people take for granted how difficult it is to write erotica. I don't mean technically, either. Writing something like, "His gaze burned with intensity," and making sure the punctuation is correct is easy. But it's also easy to Look Inside an erotica book and scoff at the chosen terms, euphemisms, obscenities, typos, and/or bad grammar. It's easy to laugh at unnecessary metaphors, or at dialogue that sounds ridiculous. _Even I could write erotica better than this_, you might think.
> 
> But writing erotica isn't a walk in the park. It's also not something everyone can do.
> 
> ...


I started writing erotica/er nine years ago and although I write other genres from time to time I still write primarily erotic and I agree, it ain't easy. With erotica you'r playing with the readers emotions. You are trying to arouse them with words. And since the reader is reading erotica/er, they want to be aroused. Erotic writing is the hardest writing there is to do well. Let any author who pokes fun at the genre try it.

One of the things I've often said in interviews and it's true, is that I hate writing erotic scenes as I write them and love them when I finish them and read them. An effective erotic scene, and effective is the key word, takes hours even days to write. Try 50 to 200 words an hour. So I'm not surprised it makes you sick and I don't blame you for wanting to write something else. I'm right behind you.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

JessieVerona said:


> I can't know for certain, but perhaps the general consensus in this thread that writing erotica is something only soulless sickos can do for any length of time might have made some of the erotica writers around here feel like crap?


The people who make comments like this, as well as the people who support the attitude, don't see anything wrong with it, or they pretend that it's not happening. Therefore, if you are an erotica writer who is offended by this stuff, I would recommend that you don't visit these types of threads.


----------



## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> Yes, that's *your* view and *your* definition of erotica. I'm glad you made that clear.
> 
> I've been writing erotica since 2000. So that's over 14 years. Erotica comes in *many* forms. Furthermore, there are many sex-positive erotica writers who don't have a problem with the word "porn," and who don't care if you call their erotica porn.


There's no doubt the sex scenes in erotica meet the definition of porn, but that doesn't mean the entire book is porn. Many times those that scream loudest about something are the ones who indulge the most in their particular form of atrocity.

_edited to conform with Forum Decorum_


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, 

the OP has said she is discussing HER feelings.  Posts that describe other erotica writers as being "sick" or "twisted" would be removed.  If there have been such posts, please report them as I have missed them.  Posts which constitute personal attacks have been or will be removed.  EDIT TO ADD:  As a counterpoint, many members have posted that they have no problems writing erotica.  Those members have not been told they are wrong to feel that way.

For those who think that the topic is unworthy of discussion, three pages of posts would indicate otherwise.  If you aren't interested in discussing a topic, don't discuss it.  Easy peasy.  Lots of other threads here. If you have something of value to add to the conversation, as many members have, by all means post.

And for those who ask why not discuss what to have for breakfast, I'm pretty sure I've seen that topic in the Writers' Cafe.  Just sayin'.

Peace, folks.  

Betsy


----------



## cinisajoy (Mar 10, 2013)

Here are some hugs for all that need them.
Now my wise words,  if writing Q makes you sick then write T.  Do not make yourself sick over some perceived reader.  There are other readers.    Find your niche and write there.  
Hope the OP feels better soon.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Folks,
> 
> the OP has said she is discussing HER feelings. Posts that describe other erotica writers as being "sick" or "twisted" would be removed. If there have been such posts, please report them as I have missed them. Posts which constitute personal attacks have been or will be removed. EDIT TO ADD: As a counterpoint, many members have posted that they have no problems writing erotica. Those members have not been told they are wrong to feel that way.
> 
> ...


It seems you edited the post that offended some of us erotica writers. So thank you for that.


----------



## swolf (Jun 21, 2010)

Yeah, funny how that works. She didn't see it, but she took it out.

So not only does she remove it, she then chastises us by claiming it didn't exist.

_Please re-read my post found here which addresses the OP's post, not edited, and which says other posts attacking members HAVE been edited. Thanks. --Betsy_


----------



## Lady TL Jennings (Dec 8, 2011)

cinisajoy said:


> Here are some hugs for all that need them.
> Now my wise words, if writing Q makes you sick then write T. Do not make yourself sick over some perceived reader. There are other readers. Find your niche and write there.
> Hope the OP feels better soon.


Hear, hear!

Adding some more hugs and encouragement to all writers on the board, as well as my own experience. 
I write historical romance and erotica, and while I absolutely love writing it, I did have a period when I started to worry that I was repeating myself and questioned my own writing.

So I took a break, and I wrote the following:

a) The first chapter of an epic SF novel trilogy which I will never finish, because while I like reading SF I found out I'm not dedicated enough to write it.
b) A short fan fiction fantasy story which I most likely will never publish, but I enjoyed writing and spent a happy afternoon plotting a system for how to use magic.
c) Something that started out as an outrageous short story mashup between thriller and humor with quite a lot of sex scenes (not planned!) which ended up as a serialized novel which I've published under a new pen name. I giggled my way through all the 45000 words and still can't believe I wrote it, but I had a blast and learned a completely new way of writing fast-paced stories. 
d) I started writing a dark short story/novella, which utterly freaked me out and which I know at the bottom of my heart that I'm never going to finish. (Hello, dark side!)

So, my advice: Try writing something else for a while. 
Maybe you'll find an entire new niche to write in, maybe you'll find your way back to your erotica stories with time. (I knew I did: After writing post-apocalyptic SF I longed for Victorian gentlemen and entangled gay romance stories again.)

Best of luck!


----------



## deedawning (Aug 31, 2013)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> It seems you edited the post that offended some of us erotica writers. So thank you for that.


What i could never figure out is how authors some of whom write awful stuff--Serial murder, gore, mayhem, terrorism, blood sucking, monsters etc and I know it's not all of them, but some can look down on authors of (normal) sex which for most of us is a joyful experience, a thing to be treasured.


----------



## Going Incognito (Oct 13, 2013)

This is why I choose not to take offense. Taking offense is a verb. It doesn't happen to you, you choose to take it. I choose to laugh, roll my eyes, and make more popcorn for the show. 
We are judged for everything. EVERYTHING. How we look, dress, our accents, our country of origin, our political leaning, sexual orientation, skin color, hairstyle, weight, eye color, piercings, tattoos, names, avatars, if we drink or not, if we have kids or not, how we raise them, if we breast feed or not, work or stay home, write or have a 'real job,' what we write, how we write it, how long it is, it's genre, tone, if we pay for editing or covers or not. As humans, we can not sneeze without someone  having an opinion on our form and execution. 
So stop taking offense. Every single judgement we are judged on has everything to do with the judger's personal filter and nothing to do with us. 
One can kill fictional characters but feels like her guiding conscience is turned off if her fictional characters have the wrong kind of sex. Guess what? That has everything to do with her. Not me. Or you. 
Make the decisions that are right for you, cause you know you have to live with them. And realize that everyone else's choices speak volumes about them. Not you. 
Choose to laugh at the wild variety of crazy in the world, and choose to stop taking offense. It's freeing. And fun.


----------



## katrina46 (May 23, 2014)

I don't think you should do anything that makes you physically ill. For me, erotica is the perfect genre. I do shorter works better, the sex doesn't bother me and I get decent reviews, so I guess I do all right with it. But if it isn't for you, it's not worth the mental anguish.


----------



## M.G. Russell (Sep 23, 2014)

Kat S]There's a whole lot of handwringing here about how shameful and disgusting it was to write erotica and how people would be horrified if anyone knew they actually did it. Maybe people should be a little more sensitive about how much slut shaming is going on?[/quote]
[quote author=Eclectic Authoress said:


> +100
> 
> This is essentially the problem with discussing erotica at Kboards. We can't link to any of it. We can't have erotic books in our sig line. But it's perfectly fine to discuss how disgusting and shameful it is.


+1000


----------



## KayleaEhm (May 26, 2014)

yallapapi said:


> Finally, I would also encourage you to go over to Dirty Discourse. I recently signed up there and it is full of good information, erotica/romance authors who are very very supportive. Kboards is great as well, don't get me wrong, but there is more support for erotica authors over there.
> 
> Anyway, hope you enjoyed my long post. Good luck!


Great post! and yes, I second the Dirty Discourse idea. Nice supportive forum for erotica-minded people.


----------



## KelliWolfe (Oct 14, 2014)

M.H. Lee said:


> I don't think it's slut shaming. I think it's people sharing how THEY feel about what THEY write. If they came on here and said (and I'm pretty sure no one did, but please feel free to show me a direct quote if I'm wrong) that they thought anyone who wrote erotica was x or y or z, then, sure maybe we could call it that. But what people are saying is that they personally have issues with it. It's like sex in general, right? Some people are completely inhibition free with their sex lives and some can't even get naked in front of someone they've been married to for twenty years. It doesn't mean that the person who expresses shame about being naked in front of their spouse is accusing the person who enjoys one-night stands of anything or judging them.


It's not even an erotica author vs. everyone else situation, either. There are a lot of erotica authors who won't write PI or ageplay because it squicks them out. There are a lot of erotica authors who won't write cuckolding or nonconsensual stories because it makes them uncomfortable. Everyone has their personal limits on what they can work with. This applies to other genres as well - some people can get down and dirty with scenes of extreme violence and other writers can't or won't. Some writers can't do love scenes or just won't because they hate them with the fire of a thousand burning suns.

It's all totally subjective. We're not a bunch of robots who can just crank out anything and everything that can possibly go into words. Some people just aren't going to be able to write in certain niches. Fortunately there are a whole lot of other niches to explore and find a home in.


----------



## vlmain (Aug 10, 2011)

Eclectic Authoress said:


> This is essentially the problem with discussing erotica at Kboards. We can't link to any of it. We can't have erotic books in our sig line. But it's perfectly fine to discuss how disgusting and shameful it is.


It's also perfectly fine to discuss writing it and the business of writing it. Harvey and the mods have stated this repeatedly. You're just choosing to ignore that. 
There are rules you have to follow just like we ALL have rules we have to follow. That's life. Get over it. It's not the end of the world.


----------



## M.G. Russell (Sep 23, 2014)

vlmain said:


> It's also perfectly fine to discuss writing it and the business of writing it. Harvey and the mods have stated this repeatedly. You're just choosing to ignore that.
> There are rules you have to follow just like we ALL have rules we have to follow. That's life. Get over it. It's not the end of the world.


Wow! Sure feeling the love. How about if you take all your books out of your sig. file and don't put them in the other areas of the site? How about if those of us who write erotica start to belittle the genre you write in? We don't do that but we have to deal with all the negative crap about erotica that gets spewed out here. Yes, I know, I can leave. However, I choose to stay because of threads like the one KMatthews started some time back with great information and the recent one about places to promote books. And I also end up reading any of the threads, like this one, that concern erotica because I write it.

I fully respect the OP who can't write erotica. If she can't do that then if she wants to continue to write she needs to find a new category. It's all the snide little comments made by several others about erotica that are nasty. People can come on here and say all kinds of negative things about erotica but I have yet to see a thread that has much negativity that is focused on any other genre. Maybe you could point some of them out to me if there are any.


----------



## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

vlmain said:


> It's also perfectly fine to discuss writing it and the business of writing it. Harvey and the mods have stated this repeatedly. You're just choosing to ignore that.
> There are rules you have to follow just like we ALL have rules we have to follow. That's life. Get over it. It's not the end of the world.


I agree. The end of the world is if I can no longer find almonds to eat for a snack.  That would be it for me. Kill me now.


----------



## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks, I'm the only mod online and I'm not home right now.  Locking thread until the Mod Squad can discuss.  Thanks for understanding.

EDIT:  As the OP has not returned to the thread recently, we're going to leave the thread locked.  Thanks.

Betsy
KB Mod


----------

