# Aye, ya canna whack it, man! And other adventures in dialect



## Mark Ledbetter (May 7, 2010)

If you’ve been reading “Do Whom and Other Subtleties of the English Language…” you know I revel in language variations. Any dialect favorites you have? If you’re not Mark Twain, most writers botch dialect (American writers doing Black or Appalachian/hillbilly English, for example). Here are a few, not from literature but from a Trask book on language.

She’s a dinky-di Pommie Sheila. (Australia)
I might could do it. (Scotland, Appalachia)
The lass divn’t gan to the pictures, pet. (Geordie (NE England))
I am not knowing where to find stepney. (India)

My favorite, I saw on a billboard on a TV show:

Aye, ya canna whack it, man!

Had to get a translation from my Geordie friend (who liked to say before leaving work, when I was the only one around: I’s gyannin yam!). It’s easy. Canna = can’t. Whack, we all know, means hit. But it could also mean beat. Thus: Yeah, ya can’t beat it, man.

Mark L


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

Since my teens I've been a fan of a series of science Fiction stories by Australian writer A. Bertram Chandler, who has his characters use Australian slang frequently even though they are part of a star faring society. So I got used to billabong and fossick and such. But I didn't actually know what pommie meant until I looked it up on the Internet ten years or so ago. I never heard it anywhere but those books, and Aussie-American slang dictionaries weren't common in Oklahoma!


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## Shayne Parkinson (Mar 19, 2010)

I use some Kiwi-isms in my writing; sometimes they're words that were familiar in my childhood but are rare now, especially in urban areas. Most of these are terms we share with Australia, and often they're survivors of dialect terms from Scotland or northern England.

A few that I use:

Skite - verb or noun. Boast, brag. "You're a skite" is a particularly cutting insult in a country where modesty is a cardinal virtue.
Chook - fowl.
Dunny - privy, "long drop".
Crook - a multi-use word. To be/feel crook is to be unwell. To go crook is to scold. To put someone crook is to give misleading information. A crook is a criminal.

A word I wanted to use is "sook", which is more or less the same as "wuss". But although it's now considered old-fashioned by people younger than I, it's not recorded earlier than the 1930s! So is far too modern for me.

Quite a few Maori words are used in everyday newzild. Most Kiwis would recognise, and many would use, words like mana, aroha, hui, koro/kuia, rewena (itself a borrowing, as it's a transliteration of "leaven"), and certainly greetings like kia ora.


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## David McAfee (Apr 15, 2010)

I have nothing useful to add except that I like this thread a lot. Dunno why.


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Mark Ledbetter said:


> I might could do it. (Scotland, Appalachia)


You can add Texas to that list.


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

Nell Gavin said:


> You can add Texas to that list.


Yup, my boss used to say "I might could" all the time. Drove me a little bonkers. But that wasn't his worst offense so I was able to overlook it quite quickly...

B.A. Wallace (Fatherly Love) has a pulp fiction mystery out that is set in Aussie. Not too many slang words, but I always enjoy running across a few. I think Australians have the weirdest slang words--and so many!!!

Nice to see you here Mark!


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

I've been writing a book that requires a lot of working class British vulgarities. I employed the wisdom of a Brit friend of mine, who graciously taught me many offensive ways to describe many things. However, I stumbled on this site, which may interest you if you happen to need a dictionary of British slang: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/index.htm

PS. The "F" section isn't even the most offensive one.

PSS. The link is rated M, mature audiences only.


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## Mark Ledbetter (May 7, 2010)

Maria, yeah, I’m back, after my first appearance a month or two ago. Thanks again for all your great advice and help at that time. Anyway, this is a fine site. I’ve been over on the Amazon history and politics sites. More related to my books, doncha know. But for the highest class of internet people, I have to come home to Kindle Boards!

The only problem was finding my niche here. I am creatively challenged when it comes to one-liners (much as I like them!). Technical issues put me to sleep (except when I have a problem. Then I’m first on the board looking for solutions). Advice on stylistics is not really my thing (well, maybe sometimes). And there’s not a whole lot of interest here in talking history.

But now I’ve maybe got something going appropriate to Kindle Boards, seeing as how all y’all here are language people: language issues from a “linguist’s” perspective, of which (that “of which” is for Nell), I seem to be the only one here.

For me, Language (capital L) is a window on the mind. I’m not talking literary language or a particular language, but the real language which, as children we all incredibly, almost miraculously, recreated in our minds out of the chaos of sound we were immersed in, sans any kind of helpful "teaching." That particular accomplishment must remain, for each of us, the most impressive thing we ever have or ever will accomplish; more impressive than a degree from Harvard, a great discovery, or writing this year’s finest novel. And since we have all done it, it’s a great leveler, putting each and every one of us on the same plane no matter how the standards of human society might rank us.

Whew. There’s another problem I have to learn to control: long-windedness. Anyway, if interest continues I may put up some language-related threads a bit different than this one and the other: Do “Whom” and Other Subtleties of the English Language Throw You? (People fearful of grammarians and therefore of “whom,” please don’t be afraid to look at that thread. You may actually find relief from your fears! Others, however, may only find great irritation at my lack of due respect for whom and other shibboleths of good writing.)

Mark L


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## NogDog (May 1, 2009)

You might get a kick out of the Nac Mac Feegles (also known as Pictsies, the Wee Free Men, the Little Men, 'Person or Persons Unknown, Believed to be Armed', and occasionally 'The Defendants') from several of Terry Pratchett's books, especially the Tiffany Aching series: _The Wee Free Men_, _A Hat Full of Sky_, and _Wintersmith_, having made their first appearance in a somewhat lesser role in _Carpe Jugulum_. They speak a sort of Scottish dialect, probably with some variations and fabrications on Pratchett's part. A brief glossary:

* Big Wee Hag - Tiffany Aching
* Bigjobs - human beings.
* Big Man - chief of the clan (usually the husband of the Kelda).
* Blathers/blethers - rubbish, nonsense.
* Boggin - to be desperate, as in 'I'm boggin for a cup of tea.'
* Bunty - a weak person.
* Carlin - an old woman, witch or not.
* Cludgie - the privy
* Coo- Cow
* Crivens! - A general exclamation, ranging in seriousness and severity. Used in place of swear words.
* Dinnae/didnae - do not/did not.
* Dree your/my/his/her weird - Face the fate that is in store for you/me/him/her.
* Eldritch - weird, strange. Sometimes means oblong, too, for some reason
* Geas - An oath of sorts, an obligation. Not a bird.
* Hag - Witch
* Hag o' Hags - A head witch or great witch
* Haggins/hagglins - What a witch does.
* Hiddlins - special powers attributed to the Kelda.
* Ken - Know.
* Midden - combination of dump, cesspit, dunnikin.
* Mudlin - Useless person.
* Offski - To leave or depart quickly. (Run away.)
* Pished - Tired....or so we are told.
* Scunner - A generally unpleasant person.
* Scuggan - A really unpleasant person.
* Ships - Wooly things that eat grass and go baa. Not to be confused with sailing or boats.
* Spavie - See Mudlin.
* Waily - general cry of despair.

Some of them have rather interesting names, such as No-As-Big-As-Medium-Jock-But-Bigger-Than-Wee-Jock-Jock.

Compliments of your friendly neighborhood Discworld pusher.


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## bvlarson (May 16, 2010)

David McAfee said:


> I have nothing useful to add except that I like this thread a lot. Dunno why.


I second the motion of really liking this thread. I've always been into learning English dialect words for things, at least old one from the UK or Aus/NZ. When I wrote my epic fantasy Haven series, it was a real delicate balance in how to word things so it had a little flavor of archaic speech, but not so much that a younger reader would go "huh?" every sentence. Once in a while I would have a character doing "thee" and "thy", but you can really overdo that if you aren't careful and turn charming into annoying...
-bvl


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

bvlarson said:


> I second the motion of really liking this thread. I've always been into learning English dialect words for things, at least old one from the UK or Aus/NZ. When I wrote my epic fantasy Haven series, it was a real delicate balance in how to word things so it had a little flavor of archaic speech, but not so much that a younger reader would go "huh?" every sentence. Once in a while I would have a character doing "thee" and "thy", but you can really overdo that if you aren't careful and turn charming into annoying...
> -bvl


I had exactly the same problem with Threads. You want to flavor the dialog, not overpower it. I found that often I could do this by simply rearranging the words in a sentence, flipping the "natural order" of modern narrative and dialog, without adding any archaic language.


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## KMA (Mar 11, 2009)

NogDog said:


> You might get a kick out of the Nac Mac Feegles (also known as Pictsies, the Wee Free Men, the Little Men, 'Person or Persons Unknown, Believed to be Armed', and occasionally 'The Defendants') from several of Terry Pratchett's books, especially the Tiffany Aching series: _The Wee Free Men_, _A Hat Full of Sky_, and _Wintersmith_, having made their first appearance in a somewhat lesser role in _Carpe Jugulum_. They speak a sort of Scottish dialect, probably with some variations and fabrications on Pratchett's part. A brief glossary:
> 
> * Big Wee Hag - Tiffany Aching
> * Bigjobs - human beings.
> ...


These are some of my 8 year old's favorite books! We're eagerly awaiting I Shall Wear Midnight.


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## Gabriela Popa (Apr 7, 2010)

Mark, I find threads like these fascinating.  Particular idioms, phrasal verbs and expressions - they add so much spice to any story.  So, great jobs on initiating discussions like these.  Please keep them coming!  
Gabriela


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## Mark Ledbetter (May 7, 2010)

Gabriela Popa said:


> Mark, I find threads like these fascinating. Particular idioms, phrasal verbs and expressions - they add so much spice to any story. So, great jobs on initiating discussions like these. Please keep them coming!
> Gabriela


Thanks Gabriela. I take it you speak Romanian? My interest in language goes beyond English. I may ask you some questions from time to time.

Yes, colloquial language can add spice. In fact, your comment gives me an idea. People might put up short snippets where they use dialect etc. in their stories. I'll get the ball rolling with the only example I can think of from my own books. This is from Part Two of Forgotten History. It's the intro to the Andrew Jackson presidency. To my mind, Russel Bean's language transformed an only mildly interesting story into a dynamite introduction of ol' Andy. Here goes&#8230;.

Out riding circuit, Judge Jackson was presiding when 
defendant Russell Bean suddenly chose to up and leave 
the courtroom. A huge man, mean and dangerous, Bean 
was now out in the street waving his pistol and threatening to 
shoot anyone who tried to take him back in. The Sheriff couldn't 
do it alone so Judge Jackson ordered him to summon a posse. 
Nobody in that town, though, was stupid enough to join a posse 
intent on taking Russell Bean. So Judge Jackson, blue eyes 
blazing, ordered the Sheriff to, "Summon me! Yes, sir, summon 
me!"

Officially summoned, the judge adjourned the court for 
ten minutes, took off his robes, picked up a pair of pistols, and 
strode out of the room. Pacing through the crowd that had 
gathered around the wildly cussing defendant, the judge roared, 
"Now, surrender, you infernal villain, this very instant, or I'll 
blow you through!"

Bean quietly nodded, "There, Judge, it's no use, I give 
in."

A few days later, sitting in his cell, Bean explained, "Why, 
when he come up, I looked him in the eye, and I saw shoot, and 
there warn't shoot in nary other eye in the crowd; and so I says 
to myself, says I, Hoss, it's about time to sing small, and so I 
did."

Gabriela, any interesting Romanian-based examples of dialog from your own stories? Translated colloquialisms are sometimes fascinating and enlightening.


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## Gabriela Popa (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi Mark,

What a great idea. Yes, I speak Romanian and I will be happy to answer questions you may have. Your fragment is terrific - and the last few words paint a strong image of Russel Bean: "and so I says 
to myself, says I, Hoss, it's about time to _sing small_ (I like that!), and so I did."

However, the following part proved difficult - can you "translate" the parts in bold?: "Why, when he come up, I looked him in the eye, *and I saw shoot*, and *there warn't shoot in nary other eye* in the crowd"

To take your challenge, I can offer a fragment from my short story "When the Moon had Feet". In this story I wanted to use the Romanian word "decretzei", which is a somewhat humorous take on the overwhelmingly large number of children born in early seventies in Romania after abortion had been banned by law in 1966.

My fictional aunt Aneta speaks in this fragment:

""The land by the beer factory, dear. Communists are stealing my land again. Piece by piece. When I only think at what the bastards did to my orchard," says Aneta, with tears in her eyes. I knew what the bastards did to her orchard, because my sister attends the school they built there. Basically, two years ago, a party official knocked at Aneta's door and told her that her cherry orchard has been declared state property. "They paid me so much for it that I couldn't feed a chick for a day off that money," Aneta said later. She was to harvest all she could quickly because they were pouring foundation for the school in two weeks. Since any birth control method--abortion included--had been forbidden in Romania through a decree, an unexpectedly large number of seven-years old children (tenderly and unofficially called by everyone, from the similar Romanian word "decret," "decretzei," meaning "little happenings of the decree") were sharpening their pencils, their wit to follow. And since all schools were full, officials had to hurry up, and build more. Shaded by old apple trees and dark cherries, the school built in Aneta's orchard was one of those rushed constructions."

Gabriela


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Mark Ledbetter said:


> A few days later, sitting in his cell, Bean explained, "Why,
> when he come up, I looked him in the eye, and I saw shoot, and
> there warn't shoot in nary other eye in the crowd; and so I says
> to myself, says I, Hoss, it's about time to sing small, and so I
> did."


Can I guess? I am trying to interpret that too. The words (I think) literally mean, "I didn't see the inclination to shoot me in any other eyes in the crowd." But if only the judge was inclined to shoot him, why did he become so suddenly passive? Why didn't he bolt into the crowd that wasn't inclined to shoot him? So what am I reading incorrectly?


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## Gabriela Popa (Apr 7, 2010)

Nell Gavin said:


> Can I guess? I am trying to interpret that too. The words (I think) literally mean, "I didn't see the inclination to shoot me in any other eyes in the crowd." But if only the judge was inclined to shoot him, why did he become so suddenly passive? Why didn't he bolt into the crowd that wasn't inclined to shoot him? So what am I reading incorrectly?


Nell, I think your interpretation makes sense, indeed! I suppose he was intimidated by the "roaring" judge into submission...I also like how the judge calls him: "infernal villan!" So theatrical, therefore effective.

Gabriela


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## Nell Gavin (Jul 3, 2010)

Gabriela Popa said:


> Nell, I think your interpretation makes sense, indeed! I suppose he was intimidated by the "roaring" judge into submission...I also like how the judge calls him: "infernal villan!" So theatrical, therefore effective.
> 
> Gabriela


Do we believe then, that the judge made him cower into total submission by roaring? Even though the crowd wasn't inclined to shoot? The judge, remember, is telling the story. (Perhaps he was describing the very large fish that got away. Do we believe him??)


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## Gabriela Popa (Apr 7, 2010)

Nell Gavin said:


> Do we believe then, that the judge made him cower into total submission by roaring? Even though the crowd wasn't inclined to shoot? The judge, remember, is telling the story. (Perhaps he was describing the very large fish that got away. Do we believe him??)


Good question... I suppose we need author's help here 
Gabriela


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## Mark Ledbetter (May 7, 2010)

Nogdog,

I ken at least some of the words on that list are real. I’m guessing all are. A Scottish lass I worked with once showed me a picture of a Heelan Coo, a big shaggy, incredibly cute long-horned bovine. But she had to translate for me: heelan coo = highland cow. And ken is just an old pronunciation of know (in German, which has the same roots as English: kennen). Question: Do coos and ships ever graze together?

Gabriela: Good question...  I suppose we need author's help here.

Mark: I never realized ol’ Russell would need a translator! That’s the downside to using dialect. To me, “shoot” in his eyes just meant he knew ol’ Andy was serious, unlike everyone else in the crowd, who were cowed (cooed) into submission.

The most interesting usage for me is “nary other.” I would have called this a mistake, if I were inclined towards prescriptive grammar: should be “nary another.” Turns out, the mistake would have been mine. A quick dictionary check finds that ‘nary’ is originally a dialect form for ‘never a’ which becomes ‘ne’er a’ which becomes ‘nary.’ That’s all I needed. The rest became clear and ‘nary other’ became correct.

What certainly happened is this:

Step One: In many dialects, final “uh” used to be pronounced “ee”. America became Ameriky. So, ‘ne’er a’ became ‘nary’.

Step Two: Speakers of standard English picked up ‘nary’ to flavor their own speech and at the same time mildly make fun of hillbillies. But…

Step Three: They didn’t know that the indefinite article (a, an) was already incorporated into ‘nary’, so they would say ‘nary a’ and ‘nary an’. Their mistake, through the power of the prestige dialect, become standard. My dictionary has: ‘nary a murmur’ and ‘nary a complaint’, though it “should” be: ‘nary murmur’ and ‘nary complaint’.

(Note: this explanation might not make sense unless you ken that ‘another’, even though we write it as one word, is actually two words: an other)

Gabriela, let's talk about your cherry orchard and decretzei tomorrow. I'd like to learn a little more about that.


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## The Hooded Claw (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,86.msg555194.html#msg555194

I don't know that it is part of a dialect (Aussie or otherwise), but the above message about a word from one of the A. Bertram Chandler books I mentioned earlier may amuse those who liked this thread.


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## Mark Ledbetter (May 7, 2010)

Just finished the exciting and moving novel 2184 by our own Martin Parish. Click on his book here and there at Kindle Boards or check out my review, should be up at Amazon some time this weekend. Anyway, I started marking new vocab part way through the book. Here's my attempt at Britspeak.

Stop whinging about the bloody bedsit, you little git, I'm trying to get some kip!

http://www.amazon.com/2184-ebook/dp/B003GIRQ5K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A6U6H3H6WHQPH&s=digital-text&qid=1280466995&sr=1-1


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## Chris Redding Author (Aug 14, 2010)

One of my critique partners use Scottish dialect. I read her stuff out loud and channelled Fat Bastard as I did it. The only time I could do a good Scottish accent.
Chris Redding


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## pdallen (Aug 3, 2010)

I use Yooper English in my tales of da Yoopernatural series. Dis is a distinct dialect spoken in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, eh. Da dialect is influenced by Finnish, German, en French Canadian.

Here's a short video made for an English class in Spain. Da speaker does an adequate job a speaking in da yooper dialect, eh. 




Eino & Toivo was chikin (hitch hiking) down da US cement highway when Toivo says to Eino "Eh look a dose two Polacks out dare in dat subble field rowin a boat." Den Eino says "Yah hey is dat dumb or what?" Den Toivo says "Don't chu tink ve auta tell dem day can't row no boat in no stubble field." Den Eino says "Ya eh, but we got no boat to git out dare en tell dem wit."


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