# "Good" Coffee: Acquired Taste?



## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I've always prided myself on not caring what my coffee tasted like.  If it was hot and brown it was always good enough for me.  When certain coffee wasn't good enough for somebody I secretly thought "elitist!"  Lately, though, I've noticed that in certain places I've been spending time, the coffee tastes horrible.  It pains me to say but somewhere in the back of my mind I had a notion of going and buying a name brand cup and savoring it.  I quickly stamped it out of course, but it made me face up to this.  Why do I suddenly care?  Yikes!  I don't want to be a coffee snob!


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

Too late... you're done for.


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## MrPLD (Sep 23, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> store-bought coffee tastes so "plain" -- and stale. I'm ruined.


... and rancid too sometimes :bleah:


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

Yeah "they" say that it is not just the quality of the beans that matters.....
But most important is how fresh the beans.
and how fresh the roasting.
Then how recent the roasted beans are ground.
And immediately popped into the coffee brewer.
Ah Heaven is a fresh cup of coffee.

Just sayin......


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

daveconifer said:


> Yikes! I don't want to be a coffee snob!


Gasp !!

NapCat is a coffee snob !!

Actually, I have been roasting my own beans for many years now.....

Finding beans from around the world, experimenting with different roasting profiles and brewing techniques is akin to the Wine Tasting experience..
Wonderful hobby, relatively inexpensive and the result is richly rewarding.

You've tasted good coffee and your "buds" will not allow you to retreat.

Welcome to the club, snobby ! Ha!


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## Alle Meine Entchen (Dec 6, 2009)

it doesn't matter, coffee is gross and the couple of times I tried it, I nearly threw up


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

DreamWeaver said:


> NapCat, I have a stockpile of green coffee beans because I keep seeing new ones that I want to try! I only drink one (tall) cup a day, so it takes a while to go through the beans.
> 
> My favorite green bean sources are Burman Coffee Traders (fantasic "newsletter specials"!), Sweet Maria's, and Coffee Bean Corral. I was also buying top-notch green Kona coffee beans at ridiculously low prices from a seller on eBay, but they no longer offer them there.
> 
> It is an interesting hobby. I've learned a lot about different parts of the world through coffee beans.


Cool ! (I am slurping down some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe as we speak)

If there is enough interest we may start a Coffee thread similar to the Tea thread....


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## Martel47 (Jun 14, 2010)

If you're not willing to go to all that effort of roasting your own beans, the Keurig thread will gladly enable you to enjoy coffee that is pretty good at home without a lot of hassle-and cheaper than the coffee shop.


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## terryr (Apr 24, 2010)

I'm a coffee snob and proud of it.  Drinking brown dishwater just because it has caffeine?....blech!  I'm all about the taste. If I can't have coffee that tastes good, I drink tea, and if I have lousy, weak, watery dishwater tea (like Lipton or the tiny tea bag in the huge American coffee mug type tea), I'd rather have plain water.  I rarely order coffee out any more, or even from Starbucks, because I'm too often disappointed.


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## Sofie (Dec 30, 2008)

Coffee is my preferred beverage and I can drink just about anything, with the exception of Starbucks and Seattle"s Best (?). Those two brands give me an immediate headache.


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## JD Rhoades (Feb 18, 2011)

My own paean to "The Beverage of the Friends of God":

http://jdrhoades.blogspot.com/2011/02/beverage-of-friends-of-god.html


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

DreamWeaver said:


> NapCat, I have a stockpile of green coffee beans because I keep seeing new ones that I want to try! I only drink one (tall) cup a day, so it takes a while to go through the beans.
> 
> My favorite green bean sources are Burman Coffee Traders (fantasic "newsletter specials"!), Sweet Maria's, and Coffee Bean Corral. I was also buying top-notch green Kona coffee beans at ridiculously low prices from a seller on eBay, but they no longer offer them there.
> 
> It is an interesting hobby. I've learned a lot about different parts of the world through coffee beans.


We're coffee roasters too. I don't drink it, but husband loves it. I use the espresso to make tiramisu. I don't hate coffee, but I'm a big fan of tea. If I'm going to even taste it, I agree the home roasted fresh stuff is waaaaaay better.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Sofie said:


> Coffee is my preferred beverage and I can drink just about anything, with the exception of Starbucks and Seattle"s Best (?). Those two brands give me an immediate headache.


I hate Starbucks but like Seattle's Best a lot. They're both the same company, actually, which is kinda ironic because I find the "working class" Seattle's Best to be far better.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

Dave, you're rolling down a very steep hill. I started on bottled coffees and freeze-dried crystals. Then a cousin introduced us to coffee made from :gasp: actual grinds! That transitioned to whole beans, then more expensive whole beans. Haven't invested in my own roaster yet, but I'm sure it's coming.

I tried the freeze-dried business again while traveling. Half a sip and the affront to taste buds everywhere got poured down the sink.

Can't drink Starbucks coffees, but that may also be because most of the time, they have something South American on drip. Ethiopian coffees trump that any day.


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## Susan in VA (Apr 3, 2009)

NapCat said:


> If there is enough interest we may start a Coffee thread similar to the Tea thread....


Pretty sure there was one a little while back, but it became inactive... I guess maybe the tea drinkers obsess more about the details? 

eta: Not just one, there were at least a dozen.... do a search for threads with coffee in the title, and you'll most likely find something of interest!


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## geoffthomas (Feb 27, 2009)

I  loooovvvveeee tiramisu.
Maybe more than cheesecake.

And they both go well with a nice cup of coffee.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

geoffthomas said:


> And they both go well with a nice cup of coffee.


Most desserts do. Well, maybe not Jello, but cake and cookies and mousse and bread pudding...


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

geoffthomas said:


> "...Maybe more than cheesecake..."



I make a Cappuccino/Irish Cream Cheesecake that is always a hit with a good cup of coffee


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## terryr (Apr 24, 2010)

T.L. Haddix said:


> I recently got turned back on to coffee. I can't handle caffeine, so only decaf for this girl. I also have the whole low-carb/insulin dependence thing going on, and I needed something warm to drink this winter so... coffee. I like Seattle's Best decaf, and that's about as far as I've gotten into it. I looked at French presses, but I'm not that serious a coffee aficionado just yet.
> 
> I love the concept of tea, the formalness of it, but I just can't get into it. I did get some hibiscus tea for blood pressure, and I force it down. Regular tea sends me into spasms, and not of ecstasy. Discovered this after last year's Celebrity Apprentice and falling in LOVE with Bret's Blend. Dang it.


Celestial Seasonings used to make (and I'm sure still does) a lovely herbal/roasted grain blend called Roastaroma. It's dark, deep, and rich, and not quite coffee, but delicious in its own right. With or without milk, it's good. I've also had the soy coffee Rocamojo and thought that was pretty good, too. Again, not the real thing, but something that made an acceptable sub.


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## Thumper (Feb 26, 2009)

Be a coffee snob. there are worse things you could be 

I never learned to like the taste of coffee at all...wish I did, though. I feel all odd and chit not liking the stuff...


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## terryr (Apr 24, 2010)

Thumper said:


> Be a coffee snob. there are worse things you could be
> 
> I never learned to like the taste of coffee at all...wish I did, though. I feel all odd and chit not liking the stuff...


Hey, if we all liked the same things, the world would be a boring place!


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm a total coffee snob.  But with the invention of those Starbucks instant coffee packets, I really wish I wasn't.  Like would be so convenient if I could choke that stuff down!  Alas, I must stick to my freshly ground/brewed Pike Place roast.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I think what happened yesterday was that somebody made a particularly awful batch of lukewarm dishwater.  Today I seem to be okay with the nondescript hot, brown run-of-the-mill stuff.  So I'm not a coffee snob yet...


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## sebat (Nov 16, 2008)

I guess I've been a coffee snob and just didn't realize it.  For the past 5 years my husband and I have lived in Hawaii off and on.  I've been drinking only 100% Kona coffee and I always bring enough back to the mainland with me when we return.  I ran out of it a month or so back and grabbed a can of Folgers.  It tasted like water!  I tried making it stronger but it still didn't have any flavor.  So far, the only thing I have found that I'll drink is 100% Colombian coffee.  I haven't resorted to internet ordering but it sounds like I need to try the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe.  I'm in the Starbucks haters club, it just tastes burnt to me.


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

Something that I have noticed with my teas, and I would bet it translates to coffees too, if you have yucky tasting water, you will get yucky tasting drink. We have crappo water, so I use bottled for brewing my teas, and it REALLY makes a difference.

(oh and I'm a reverse coffee snob, can't stand the flavor at all in ANYTHING)


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

I didn't drink coffee for most of my life because I find the straight stuff bitter. I have to bury it in sugar and milk to drink it. When I started driving a school bus I needed to stay awake so I started to drink it, but it's still just a caffeine delivery system to me.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

R. Reed said:


> I didn't drink coffee for most of my life because I find the straight stuff bitter. I have to bury it in sugar and milk to drink it. When I started driving a school bus I needed to stay awake so I started to drink it, but it's still just a caffeine delivery system to me.


Then there are those of us who see the caffeine as an added perk


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

Being from New Orleans (which by the way was just named 1 of the top 10 coffee drinking cities in the USA), I was bornto be a coffee afficianado!


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I go to starbucks out of convience. Though I would prefer to have myself a cup from the Human Bean...yes I know the name is weird, but its delish. i make it a habit to go when i am on my way leave or to my friends place


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

terryr said:


> If I can't have coffee that tastes good, I drink tea, and if I have lousy, weak, watery dishwater tea (like Lipton or the tiny tea bag in the huge American coffee mug type tea), I'd rather have plain water. I rarely order coffee out any more, or even from Starbucks, because I'm too often disappointed.


I drink coffee, although I'm mostly a tea-drinker (I'm a Brit, what do you expect?). I also hate Lipton's. I can't drink Starbucks - it tastes burnt. I would love to roast my own beans but haven't go a clue how to do it and it would probably taste worse than Starbucks. Early Grey and Yorkshire Tea are my main brew.


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## CS (Nov 3, 2008)

Vegas_Asian said:


> I go to starbucks out of convience.


This is a curious statement. Every Starbucks I've ever been to is overcrowded, hectic, and the people behind the counter are rude and never get your name right. Plus, the coffee is awful (my personal opinion, of course). Quite frankly the opposite of convenience, if you ask me.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I just go to the one across the street from my house with the same people and all. Coffee is coffee or i get iced passion tea lemonade in summer when I am going to school at times. I haven't had a bad starbucks experience customer service wise.

Used to be very picky about coffee, but now I am about caffeine, especially with my nine to nine school schedule


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## JoeMitchell (Jun 6, 2010)

This is all pretty interesting to me.  I drink coffee every day, but I'm far from a coffee snob.  I've thought about taking a few steps in that direction, but haven't tried yet.  I'm thinking that there are levels of coffee fans, something like this:

1: Instant freeze-dried coffee
2: Home-brewed, generic ground coffee, cheap
3: Home brewed, name brand (Maxwell House, Folgers, etc)
4: Fancy ground beans from the supermarket coffee bean bins
5: Home roasted and ground from whole beans
6: Grow your own beans?

Is this about right, or am I missing something?

I would be a level 3 on this chart.  Maxwell House French Roast almost all the time, or sometimes Colombian.  I've thought about moving up to level 4 and trying that fancy stuff in the supermarket bins, but I really don't know what I'm doing, and it seems to expensive compared to Maxwell House.  Are they worth it?

Also, do you level 5's drink it black, or do you add cream/sugar?


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

^^^ when I am really desperate for caffeine, I mix instant with my brewed coffee


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

JoeMitchell said:


> This is all pretty interesting to me. I drink coffee every day, but I'm far from a coffee snob. I've thought about taking a few steps in that direction, but haven't tried yet. I'm thinking that there are levels of coffee fans, something like this:
> 
> 1: Instant freeze-dried coffee
> 2: Home-brewed, generic ground coffee, cheap
> ...


Lol. I enjoyed this.

I gave up sugar long ago. Never could quite kick the cream. I worry about what would happen to my teeth.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

I don't roast or grind my own beans, but I'm a coffee snob to some degree.  I'm not a fan of Folgers, and I don't drink instant.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

JoeMitchell said:


> This is all pretty interesting to me. I drink coffee every day, but I'm far from a coffee snob. I've thought about taking a few steps in that direction, but haven't tried yet. I'm thinking that there are levels of coffee fans, something like this:
> 
> 1: Instant freeze-dried coffee
> 2: Home-brewed, generic ground coffee, cheap
> ...


There's another level between 4 and 5. I usually order whole beans directly from Peet's Coffee or get them from Zingerman's (local coffee shop / delicatessen). I guess that would be "4.5 Fancy whole/ground beans from pricey coffee shops"?


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

JoeMitchell said:


> 1: Instant freeze-dried coffee
> 2: Home-brewed, generic ground coffee, cheap
> 3: Home brewed, name brand (Maxwell House, Folgers, etc)
> 4: Fancy ground beans from the supermarket coffee bean bins
> ...


7: Genetically engineer a superior coffee bean, and grow those in your backyard.


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## splashes99 (Aug 11, 2010)

Thumper said:


> Be a coffee snob. there are worse things you could be
> 
> I never learned to like the taste of coffee at all...wish I did, though. I feel all odd and chit not liking the stuff...


I always WANT to like coffee, but I just can't taste the difference between one type and any other type


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

splashes99 said:


> I always WANT to like coffee, but I just can't taste the difference between one type and any other type


Hi Splashes, have you tried a direct comparison between freeze-dried and drip? I think that's the easiest place to start. Some of the things to look for are flavor, acidity, aftertaste, and (lack of) burned-taste. I agree with BTackitt -- good water makes a difference -- but so does brewing temperature, so changing that up can make a world of difference.

Am I the only one who feels like a good black coffee is sort of like a strong tea?


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

DreamWeaver said:


> I use a Behmor 1600 roaster, which can roast up to a pound at a time. It looks like a large toaster oven, and the beans rotate inside a drum within. I can honestly say that I've never had a bad roast using it -- even my first! It's been a great machine, but there are smaller (and less expensive) ones too. Some people use particular popcorn poppers to roast -- or even a frying pan. I've never tried that myself.
> 
> All coffee roasters produce some smoke (some more than others), so keep that in mind. Even though mine has a smoke reduction feature, I do my roasting in the garage for that reason. I was afraid doing it indoors might set off the smoke alarm, plus the smoke smell would be difficult to get out of fabrics, etc. It can be pungent!
> 
> It's an interesting hobby!


I have an older Zach & Dani (Sweet Maria's still sells it, under a different name) which only roasts 4 oz at a time. It has a catalytic converter, so no smoke at all, although of course, you still get the smell, which I happen to love. I find it very easy to use and certainly paid for itself within the first year. I've had mine about 6 years now. I'm not sure how much longer it will last. I've heard a lot of good things about the Behmor 1600 roaster. Can it do small batches?

So, I'm a level 5. I do drink it black (brewed in a French press). Fresh-roast does not have any of the acrid bitterness that most people associate with coffee. I highly recommend home roasting to anyone who's interested.


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## KindleChickie (Oct 24, 2009)

R. Reed said:


> I didn't drink coffee for most of my life because I find the straight stuff bitter. I have to bury it in sugar and milk to drink it. When I started driving a school bus I needed to stay awake so I started to drink it, but it's still just a caffeine delivery system to me.


I too dislike the bitter/acidic coffee. Some "good" coffee is very acidic and I cant stand it. And some of the cheapo stuff is fine by me. I really is a case by case thing for me.

IHOP has the worst coffee of any chain restaurant I have ever tasted.

Cuban coffee, or what they drank in Miami and called Cuban coffee, was the absolute worst I have ever had. One tiny shot and I had instant heart burn. The only time in my life I have had heart burn.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

Sienna_98 said:


> I have an older Zach & Dani (Sweet Maria's still sells it, under a different name) which only roasts 4 oz at a time. It has a catalytic converter, so no smoke at all, although of course, you still get the smell, which I happen to love. I find it very easy to use and certainly paid for itself within the first year. I've had mine about 6 years now. I'm not sure how much longer it will last. I've heard a lot of good things about the Behmor 1600 roaster. Can it do small batches?
> 
> So, I'm a level 5. I do drink it black (brewed in a French press). Fresh-roast does not have any of the acrid bitterness that most people associate with coffee. I highly recommend home roasting to anyone who's interested.



I have a Gene Cafe Roaster for home and a Fresh Roast SR500 that I take on extended business trips (guess that make me pretty serious, huh?)
French press on the road; Cona Vac pot at home. Love "exploring" new coffees from around the world. I think a little sweetener or cream brings out some of the more subtle flavors.


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## Alain Gomez (Nov 12, 2010)

Daniel Arenson said:


> I don't roast or grind my own beans, but I'm a coffee snob to some degree. I'm not a fan of Folgers, and I don't drink instant.


I'm pretty sure Foldgers falls in the instant category


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

I've seen a number of people complain about the smell, so I count myself lucky that I really like.  

I'll keep the Behmor in mind and perhaps Santa will be kind this year.  Of course, if the Z&D keeps going, I'm not going to complain, but I love my coffee toys!  I used to regularly lurk on coffeegeek.com and have a few oddball coffeemakers as a result.   Of course, I also have my Z&D, my Rocky grinder and Gaggia Classic espresso machine, so no complaints!


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## MariaESchneider (Aug 1, 2009)

sebat said:


> I guess I've been a coffee snob and just didn't realize it. For the past 5 years my husband and I have lived in Hawaii off and on. I've been drinking only 100% Kona coffee and I always bring enough back to the mainland with me when we return. I ran out of it a month or so back and grabbed a can of Folgers. It tasted like water! I tried making it stronger but it still didn't have any flavor. So far, the only thing I have found that I'll drink is 100% Colombian coffee. I haven't resorted to internet ordering but it sounds like I need to try the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. I'm in the Starbucks haters club, it just tastes burnt to me.


If you can get a Oaxacan coffee, I think you'll love it. It's the closest thing to Kona I've ever tasted. Guatamalan peaberry was close too, but unless you go to Guatamala, you'll probably not find it...

We get Oaxaca from Sweet Maria's (no relation to me). They carry it in green beans; not sure if they sell it already roasted.


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## Alice Y. Yeh (Jul 14, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> CoffeeGeek is a great forum! I used to check out their home-roasting section quite often, but I haven't visited there for a while. There's not enough time in the day!


Thanks for that! Now I'm excited


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

I still like my coffee with chicory (the New Orleans way).


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## R. M. Reed (Nov 11, 2009)

Any of you coffee snobs ever tried the kind that has passed through a civet (a small animal) that eats the fruit and er, passes, the bean? Coffee made from those beans is supposed to be great, but the idea doesn't appeal to me.


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## N. Gemini Sasson (Jul 5, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> _Then_ I got the bright idea that I would start roasting my own coffee at home. That's been quite an adventure. I purchased a Behmor 1600 home-roaster and learned about coffee beans from around the world. It's a fun hobby, but now, store-bought coffee tastes so "plain" -- and stale. I'm ruined.


Oh geez, don't give me any ideas. My husband thinks I'm a coffee-snob because I must have whole bean gourmet coffee from a specific shop. I feel like such a novice now...


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

Thanks, Dreamweaver, for the info. I'll look into that. I've always found the smell of coffee more enticing than the taste. I actually detest the after-taste. Maybe the issue is with the type of coffee I drink. I never realized how seriously folks take their coffee until I made decaf at work, thinking nothing of it, and all the die-hard drinkers had a fit when they didn't get their fix. Seriously. Now I just do that once in a while for fun


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## terryr (Apr 24, 2010)

JoeMitchell said:


> This is all pretty interesting to me. I drink coffee every day, but I'm far from a coffee snob. I've thought about taking a few steps in that direction, but haven't tried yet. I'm thinking that there are levels of coffee fans, something like this:
> 
> 1: Instant freeze-dried coffee
> 2: Home-brewed, generic ground coffee, cheap
> ...


I'm about a 4. I would be a five in the right economy, maybe a six in the right ecosystem. (I love growing my own food, have grown and made my own herbal teas and medicines, why not coffee and Camellia sinensis (tea) as well?) I don't usually buy beans from the supermarket, I've had better luck through Amazon and other places, and when I can afford it, I order from Stumptown Roasters in Portland.
No sugar ever in coffee and only sometimes in tea. 
I prefer milk/cream in my coffee and tea. But I'll drink good coffee straight, too. 


Ciareader said:


> I still like my coffee with chicory (the New Orleans way)


I love the New Orleans style coffee as well. I like roasted chicory in herbal tea blends as well, that Roastaroma tea I mentioned has roasted chicory, carob, and roasted barley, I think. Gives you a whole new way to look at those tough roadside "weeds" with the daisy-like blue flowers, eh? Great medicinal properties in chicory root.


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## D.A. Boulter (Jun 11, 2010)

I find the 'aroma' of coffee almost nauseating. There are a couple of coffee shops in the city that roast their own (it must be that) and I don't like being within a kilometre of them.  If one moved into my area I'd seriously think of selling my house and moving--I'd probably have to. Just having someone brewing coffee nearby is bad enough.

As for the taste . . . yeah, I'm pretty sure it must be acquired. I can't think of any hell that could push me into acquiring it.

Let's see: You take nice clean fresh water, strain it through a substance which turns it muddy and then drink it? No, thanks.

Then again, I like dried goji berries which most of my friends can't stand.


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## coffeetx (Feb 12, 2011)

I love coffee.  Can you tell from my user id?  

Actually, I just bought a Keurig and love it however all this talk about roasting beans etc. has me intrigued.  Perhaps I will move to a new level in my love for coffee. Thanks for the great info!


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Love the discussion--thanks Dreamweaver for letting me know about it! I do love coffee, as you can probably see by the fact I set my books in a coffeehouse. I started drinking it when I was about sixteen (first job--we snuck it as we cleaned the dining room after dinner service), but I do think my tastes have matured, just as they have for wine (uh-oh -- now you know my two vices . . .) 
Sandy


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I thought a coffeehouse was the perfect (fictional!!) place to kill someone. You know, all those people listening to everyone's business, all hyped-up on caffeine . . . No, seriously, I like coffeehouses because they've become gathering places in a neighborhood. After living in pretty much the same town for a lot of years, I moved a couple thousand miles away and since then moved twice within that area.  The first thing I do after unpacking the boxes is find the local coffeehouse and introduce myself to the owner. It makes me feel . . .home


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

Dad's friend brought the most amazing grounds from south America. They were meant for an espresso machine. It came out really dark (in my-kcup) and my first thought was how bitter was it going be. I couldn't see through it as it reached the end of the cycle. It was not bitter at all. I did not need any sugar just my cream and milk. Wow just wow.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

DreamWeaver said:


> For those of you who roast your own coffee, I just roasted a good one! I'd had these green beans for a while, but there's a fresh crop available here, currently on sale for $4.99 a pound: http://www.burmancoffee.com/coffeelist/#origin.
> 
> Here's the description from that website:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review and the link to Burmancoffee. I am roasting my way through a large shipment I ordered from CoffeeBeanCorral last month, but will give Burmancoffee a try.


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

SandraBalzo said:


> I thought a coffeehouse was the perfect (fictional!!) place to kill someone. You know, all those people listening to everyone's business, all hyped-up on caffeine . . . No, seriously, I like coffeehouses because they've become gathering places in a neighborhood. After living in pretty much the same town for a lot of years, I moved a couple thousand miles away and since then moved twice within that area. The first thing I do after unpacking the boxes is find the local coffeehouse and introduce myself to the owner. It makes me feel . . .home


That's the first thing I do when I visit a new area too. Met some great people that way. 

BTW, are you going to be at LCC next week? I'm pretty sure I picked up your first book at LCC several years ago and wasn't aware that it was a series.


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

SandraBalzo said:


> I thought a coffeehouse was the perfect (fictional!!) place to kill someone. You know, all those people listening to everyone's business, all hyped-up on caffeine . . . No, seriously, I like coffeehouses because they've become gathering places in a neighborhood. After living in pretty much the same town for a lot of years, I moved a couple thousand miles away and since then moved twice within that area. The first thing I do after unpacking the boxes is find the local coffeehouse and introduce myself to the owner. It makes me feel . . .home


I think you are right. I wrote a short story that took place in a coffee house. The narrator recounts a murder that takes place in Sicily. I think that that the coffee house is sort of stand in for a small village. Check out the book below about coffee houses in New Orleans. That book is a mystery too.


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm going to miss LCC (Left Coast Crime -- a mystery conference) this year, Sienna. I'm so sad!! I will be at Bouchercon, though -- are you going?


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I agree about coffeehouses as village. In fact, the people in the place I modeled Uncommon Grounds after took care of each other like a village, as well. There was a man who came in every day from the senior home across the way and if it was raining or snowing, one of us would go get him or pick him up. When he died, the whole place went to the funeral. I think it's wonderful that something like coffee can bind us together like that.

And taste so good in the process while not being horrible for us! Did everyone see the latest news about coffee reducing stroke risk?


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

SandraBalzo said:


> I agree about coffeehouses as village. In fact, the people in the place I modeled Uncommon Grounds after took care of each other like a village, as well. There was a man who came in every day from the senior home across the way and if it was raining or snowing, one of us would go get him or pick him up. When he died, the whole place went to the funeral. I think it's wonderful that something like coffee can bind us together like that.
> 
> And taste so good in the process while not being horrible for us! Did everyone see the latest news about coffee reducing stroke risk?


Your book sounds interesting. I may check it out.


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I hope you check out the book -- and like it! Thanks.  You know, I was just thinking about New Orleans and coffee. I was wrong about my first taste of coffee -- it wasn't at my first job. It was at the Cafe Du Monde in New Orleans on our high school class trip. Coffee and chicory au lait. It had me at hello...


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

On the subject of Kona coffee--I remember people in the industry poo-pooing (pooh-poohing?)pure Kona as not having enough structure.  That it needed to be blended with something else. Is that true?


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

SandraBalzo said:


> I agree about coffeehouses as village. In fact, the people in the place I modeled Uncommon Grounds after took care of each other like a village, as well. There was a man who came in every day from the senior home across the way and if it was raining or snowing, one of us would go get him or pick him up. When he died, the whole place went to the funeral. I think it's wonderful that something like coffee can bind us together like that.


Sounds like the coffeehouse on my block. There's a retirement home on my little street. Our coffeeshop is beside it -- Timothy's. Normally I walk two blocks over to Second Cup, a larger coffeeshop, but sometimes I'll grab a coffee from little Timothy's too. Several of the retirement home's residents like to visit there. A few have usual seats.

One old man spends his days sitting in an armchair in the back, the fireplace to his right, the window to his left. He can spend all day there, staring out into the street, flirting with the young waitress, talking to the other regulars. Sometimes he sits alone; other times his family visits him there. I never see anyone else sit in that fireside armchair; that's _his _seat.


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm impressed with what my thread has become! I'm a blue collar coffee drinker but I've learned a lot about what the connoisseurs* do.

I just realized that part of my problem was that I was using a different brand for my drip maker, one that doesn't leave much margin for error when it comes to how much I scoop in. Now I'm back to the one that tastes the same (and good) if I put in a little too much or a little too little.

I told you I'm a blue collar coffee guy...

* I looked up the spelling of this word and still don't think I got it right.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/connoisseur


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## Sienna_98 (Jan 26, 2009)

SandraBalzo said:


> I'm going to miss LCC (Left Coast Crime -- a mystery conference) this year, Sienna. I'm so sad!! I will be at Bouchercon, though -- are you going?


Yes. I have missed the last couple LCC conferences and am excited to visit Santa Fe. Bouchercon in St. Louis will be fun too. My brother went to school at Washington University, so I've been there a few times, but that was quite a while ago. Usually I can get my dad to go to Bouchercon and we have a good time, although it's definitely a different experience when Dad comes (a little less time spent at the bar....  )


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks, Dave!  In a way, your thread is like the coffeehouses we've been talking about. When I ventured into Kindleboards, it made me feel at home.  

Love your story about the old man at the coffeehouse, Daniel. The only real person I've ever put in a book is the man I was talking about (though I changed his name from Karl to Henry). AND, like your elderly gentleman, I gave him his own reserved chair!


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Dreamweaver, I can't thank you enough for telling me about this thread. And thanks for the info on Kona. I'm going to give it another try.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> The world of coffee beyond Folger's is quite interesting.


I bought Folger's only once. Maybe I'm a snob; I couldn't finish the tin. I tossed it out. 

We have a Flavia machine at work. The coffee isn't that great, so I'll only drink it in a pinch.

I get coffee from coffeeshops two or three times a week. The rest of the time, I make coffee at home. Lately I've been drinking Melitta, which isn't too bad.


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## Daniel Arenson (Apr 11, 2010)

DreamWeaver said:


> I am _still_ reading your book *The Gods of Dream*, Daniel! It's a wonderful book! I just haven't had much time to devote to reading lately, and when I settle in at night to read I tend to fall asleep rather quickly.  It isn't that your book is boring, though!


Thanks!


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

DreamWeaver said:


> And Dave, I also have *Wrecker* on my Kindle. It gets excellent reviews at Amazon, and I'm looking forward to reading it!


Thank you so much!



Daniel Arenson said:


> I bought Folger's only once. Maybe I'm a snob; I couldn't finish the tin. I tossed it out.


I don't know the pecking order, but the coffee that inspired this thread was Chock Full of Nuts and Bolts, or whatever it's called. I really didn't like it.



DreamWeaver said:


> Thanks for starting this thread, Dave!


Most of this thread is over my head but too have learned a lot...


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Aha, this is why I called it Chock full of Nuts and Bolts. This was still in my head from when I was a lad...


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

DreamWeaver said:


> I felt that way when I found this forum too. I'm so glad you came to Kindleboards, Sandy. I'm very excited about your books! Your website is _fabulous_, by the way! Wow.


I'm excited you like my website! I just had it redone because of the second series (not quite as much coffee,but really fun and set in high-country North Carolina). Then my web person -- who is really under the gun -- turned me loose to update it on my own. ("Go forward bravely, grasshopper....") I THINK I'm getting the hang of it....


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## brianrowe (Mar 10, 2011)

I've never cared for coffee, myself. It's tea for me!


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## swcleveland (Jun 6, 2010)

What I want to know is:  Who the heck was the first person to drink water after soaking a burned bean in it?  

I've pondered this question for hours and hours, and the only answer I can come up with is:  The same person who got hungry enough to take a second bite of grapefruit.

(Yeah, I'm not exactly a coffee lover)


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Help! my new dear coffee friends! I'm so new to Kindle. Can I send a pdf (this is a review copy of one of my books) directly to someone's Kindle?  For everyone else, I've sent to their e-mail address and, presumably, they've been able to transfer it.  I'm not sure what to tell this very nice lady how to do it because, well . . . I'm a nebbish....


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have to admit I don't understand how people can see the pdfs on the Kindle because I've tried it on mine and _as you said-- have not been able to see it without scrolling sideways. Maybe the difference is that these are the actual book pages, so smaller than 8-1/2 by 11. With luck, maybe I'll understand all this eventually.

Thanks for the instructions for transferring from computer to Kindle via USB -- you are the best!
With (did I say this before) HUGE thanks,
Sandy



DreamWeaver said:


> Unless the PDF has been formatted specifically to be read on a smaller screen (see size-optimized PDF example on my website at http://www.cahillpress.com/purchase.html), it isn't going to be very easy to read on the Kindle. She'll have to either zoom in or read it in landscape mode on the Kindle. Most PDFs are sized for printing on 8-1/2" x 11" paper. She could read it more easily using Adobe Reader, which is probably on her computer.
> 
> That being said, you can't send it directly to her Kindle yourself. You could send it to her regular email address, she would save the attachment to her computer, and then she can transfer the PDF from her computer to the Kindle via the USB cable. Here are directions from the "Kindle User's Guide" (which comes loaded on every Kindle):
> 
> ...


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

GREAT information--I've printed it out for future reference and the woman who was having trouble got back to me saying all is well. Thank you!!

Sandy


DreamWeaver said:


> You're very welcome, Sandy. I'm glad I could help. I just found these "eject" instructions on an Amazon information page. I think they're a bit clearer than the ones I gave earlier:
> 
> 
> Windows Vista and 7: Click on the Start button, select "Computer" from the options, right-click on the Kindle drive icon and select "Eject" from the pop-up menu.
> ...


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Saturday morning and I'm having my coffee and thinking about breakfast. I recently got a request from a reader for a recipe that's in my new book, RUNNING ON EMPTY (NOT part of the coffee series, sorry...). Mama Philomena's is a restaurant that features all brand name recipes -- you know, like Bacardi Rum Cake and other comfort foods we gleaned from the recipes on the backs of bottles, boxes and cans. This one is Coffee-Time cake and has bananas, Philadelphia Cream Cheese, cinnamon and pecans. Thought maybe I'd share it with everyone here, since you've been so kind to me. http://www.facebook.com/notes/sandra-balzo-mysteries/mamas-coffee-time-cake-recipe-from-running-on-empty/210981315583318


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

Check out this guide on how to order coffee! http://coffeezen.com/coffee/how-to-order-a-proper-coffee-drink


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## JimC1946 (Aug 6, 2009)

I've always - even today - loved the smell of fresh-ground coffee beans and brewing coffee, but I never acquired a taste for it. Since my wife doesn't drink coffee either, I seldom get to smell it nowadays.

I'm a tea drinker, but I brew the tea in a Mr. Coffee machine. Figure it!


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Ciareader said:


> Check out this guide on how to order coffee! http://coffeezen.com/coffee/how-to-order-a-proper-coffee-drink


Thanks for the article--I've printed it out for future reference in the books!
Sandy


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## Mrs. K. (Dec 31, 2010)

swcleveland said:


> What I want to know is: Who the heck was the first person to drink water after soaking a burned bean in it?
> 
> I've pondered this question for hours and hours, and the only answer I can come up with is: The same person who got hungry enough to take a second bite of grapefruit.
> 
> (Yeah, I'm not exactly a coffee lover)


Maybe it was the same person who decided to shove wet bread into a bird before they roasted it...


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## J.M Pierce (May 13, 2010)

I'm going on vacation soon, and the thing I'm most excited about (aside from seeing my brother and his family of course) is going to Central Market in Fort Worth. They have a coffee section like nothing I've ever seen in Kansas! My wife has actually given me a coffee budget. How crazy is that? A coffee budget! I think I have a problem.


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

French press coffee... once you have it, you'll never go back.


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

J Dean said:


> French press coffee... once you have it, you'll never go back.


Agreed!


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

Just opened my latest shipment from CBC (Coffee Bean Corral)

5# Columbia Supreme Narino Reserve
5# Bali organic Kintamani
10# Bali organic Blue Moon

Plan on roasting up some of the Blue Moon later

lappin' on a cup of Costa Rican LaMinita Tarrazu now....MMmmmm


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## Val2 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hi there
I was getting so tired of bad coffee till I got to Spain and tried good coffee. Even the 'regular' coffee for my coffee maker is really good. Cafe con leche (coffee with milk) is really great here and Cafe Asiatica which is local to this area is to die for!! Made with condensed milk, two types of brandy, a shot of coffee and lemon peel. Heaven! If you want an original recipe for this, let me know.


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

DreamWeaver said:


> NapCat (and other home-roasters), how long do you let your freshly roasted coffee sit before tasting? I usually wait about three days.


Usually about 48 hours

Interesting report on the AeroPress.....I have never used one. For cleaning a french press I keep a kitchen screen strainer handy to dump the used ground in, rinse the carafe and "plunger" and leave it at that (I never let soap touch coffee implements !!) Coffee grounds go in the mulch pile.

I usually use a Cona Vac pot....hard to top that for a clean cup


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## daveconifer (Oct 20, 2009)

Val2 said:


> Hi there
> I was getting so tired of bad coffee till I got to Spain and tried good coffee. Even the 'regular' coffee for my coffee maker is really good. Cafe con leche (coffee with milk) is really great here and Cafe Asiatica which is local to this area is to die for!! Made with condensed milk, two types of brandy, a shot of coffee and lemon peel. Heaven! If you want an original recipe for this, let me know.


I wonder why we Americans have such a bad reputation for drinks like coffee and beer? I'm not saying whether or not the rep is deserved, I'm not qualified to say...


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

DreamWeaver said:


> "...Where do your beans sit during that 48 hours?..."


From roaster to stainless steel colander to cool, then usually just in an airtight glass jar.....I've never worried about the "degassing valves" too much, except when packaging for travel or gifts. There is a "production line" across my counters from the roaster to the grinder with sticky-notes telling the coffee type and roasting date......


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Val2 said:


> Hi there
> I was getting so tired of bad coffee till I got to Spain and tried good coffee. Even the 'regular' coffee for my coffee maker is really good. Cafe con leche (coffee with milk) is really great here and Cafe Asiatica which is local to this area is to die for!! Made with condensed milk, two types of brandy, a shot of coffee and lemon peel. Heaven! If you want an original recipe for this, let me know.


I would love the recipe -- sounds sinful and delicious!


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I've been finishing up the latest book, and I have a coffee-related question. I didn't get my normal ration this morning (loooong story) and have a caffeine (or lack, thereof) headache. I just made myself a cup of New England Coffee's Hazelnut Creme as an afternoon pick-me-up, but I'm wondering if anyone has found anything OTHER than caffeine that helps.

And no, weaning off is not an option!!
With thanks,
Sandy


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## Ciareader (Feb 3, 2011)

Oh!  I am going to Spain on Saturday.  Must try the coffee there!


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## crebel (Jan 15, 2009)

SandraBalzo said:


> I've been finishing up the latest book, and I have a coffee-related question. I didn't get my normal ration this morning (loooong story) and have a caffeine (or lack, thereof) headache. I just made myself a cup of New England Coffee's Hazelnut Creme as an afternoon pick-me-up, but I'm wondering if anyone has found anything OTHER than caffeine that helps.
> 
> And no, weaning off is not an option!!
> With thanks,
> Sandy


Extra-strength Excedrin (or the generic equivalent) because it includes caffiene. Works great if you didn't get your caffienated liquids in or are trying to avoid too much liquid because you are travelling and don't want the frequent stops.


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

crebel said:


> Extra-strength Excedrin (or the generic equivalent) because it includes caffiene. Works great if you didn't get your caffienated liquids in or are trying to avoid too much liquid because you are travelling and don't want the frequent stops.


You know, I'd forgotten Excedrin has caffeine in it -- thank you!


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## BTackitt (Dec 15, 2008)

"Jolt" soda


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Happy Easter, my coffee friends.  

Question for the group: I'm now living in South Florida (think heat and humidity) and was just told by my doctor that my blood tests show I may be chronically dehydrated. He, of course, wants me to drink more water, but also REALLY wants me to reduce my coffee intake. I usually drink three or four cups of regular in the morning and have considered cutting them 50/50 with decaf. I was just wondering, though, have any of you had problems with the dehdydration thing? I also run and play tennis in the heat, so I'm not minimizing that factor.

With thanks,
Sandy


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I've given up diet soda, but I do admit to be a wine-lover in addition to a coffee-lover. I never FEEL thirsty, but I was just reading that we can lose the ability to recognize thirst when we DON'T drink enough water. So maybe you'd best up the intake, too--I'm trying your '"a glass at my elbow" approach. Interestingly, now that I am trying to drink plenty of water, I'm thirsty--even when I'm drinking. (Water, I mean!! 

I guess I'd best cut the caffeine (1/2 and 1/2 is better than no/no) and the wine and see how my blood-levels respond in three months. Thanks very much for the info!
Sandy



DreamWeaver said:


> Happy Easter to you, Sandy!
> 
> There is some controversy regarding how much caffeine is too much, but coffee, alcohol, and soft drinks are generally considered to contribute to dehydration. It's never been a problem for me personally, but my intake of caffeine is low. I don't drink any alcohol, rarely drink soft drinks, and I have only 16 oz. of coffee per day (one tall cup). Some medications can contribute to dehydration too, so that may be a consideration for some.
> 
> ...


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Same here, young-wise. Thanks so much for your help.



DreamWeaver said:


> That's a really good point! Also, people often lose their sense of thirst as they get older. I'm not "ancient," but I'm not exactly "young" anymore.
> 
> I don't recognize any of the symptoms of dehydration in myself, but I definitely do need to increase my water intake because I hardly drink any. It'll be interesting to see if my thirst returns as I increase intake.
> You probably won't even notice the decrease in caffeine if you reduce slowly. At least you'll be able to monitor the results through blood tests, to make sure that those measures produce the desired effect. I hope it works out for you.


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## B. Justin Shier (Apr 1, 2011)

Just wanted to poke my head in here and correct a common myth.

For the regular coffee drinker, coffee and other caffeinated beverages don't really cause dehydration.

2 major caveats:

Caveat-1: I said "don't really" because coffee _is_ a diuretic in the same way water is. Coffee is a fluid, and fluids need to go somewhere. You can sweat fluids out. Pee fluids out. Poop fluids out. Or throw fluids out. If your renal system isn't working so well, you might end up storing fluids in your ankles. The critical point here is that all these fluids must go somewhere, and thus all the fluids you consume are considered diuretics.

Caveat-2: A person that never consumes caffeine reacts to coffee differently than you and I. They're going to be extra sensitive to the caffeine and will you-know-what like a race horse.

But don't believe some random guy on the interwebs. Here is a medical review from 2003:



> Conclusion: The most ecologically valid of the published studies offers no support for the suggestion that consumption of caffeine-containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle leads to fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested or is associated with poor hydration status.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19774754

And here is the Mayo Clinic weighing in on the subject: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeinated-drinks/AN01661

And the NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/health/nutrition/04real.html

Now all that being said, *there are many other legitimate reasons why your doctor might recommend you abstain from caffeine*. It can trouble your heart, interact badly with many medicines, or about 20 other things. You should talk to him/her about it.

B.

---
The information included in the post is for educational purposes only. It is not intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. The reader should always consult his or her healthcare provider to determine the appropriateness of the information for their own situation or if they have any questions regarding a medical condition or treatment plan. Reading the information in this post does not create a physician-patient relationship.
---


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks for the information, Justin. REALLY interesting. I'm going to sit here with my coffee reading the articles!  
Best,
Sandy


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## Colette Duke (Mar 14, 2011)

I just found this thread. Mmm, coffee. I can't write properly until I've had a big latte made with freshly ground beans. Though I'm probably not a coffee snob at all, since I buy my beans at Walmart. *takes a sip* Also, my mug says, "Best mom in the universe," so it's extra inspiring.

I keep a water bottle on my desk too.


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Hi Madeline,

Between the coffee and (now) the water, I'm not spending much time at my desk lately... And welcome! I'm pretty new myself, but this is a really nice group.
Sandy


Colette Duke said:


> I just found this thread. Mmm, coffee. I can't write properly until I've had a big latte made with freshly ground beans. Though I'm probably not a coffee snob at all, since I buy my beans at Walmart. *takes a sip* Also, my mug says, "Best mom in the universe," so it's extra inspiring.
> 
> I keep a water bottle on my desk too.


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## Colette Duke (Mar 14, 2011)

SandraBalzo said:


> Hi Madeline,
> 
> Between the coffee and (now) the water, I'm not spending much time at my desk lately... And welcome! I'm pretty new myself, but this is a really nice group.
> Sandy


LOL on not spending much time at your desk.

And... Madeline?


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Oops, Colette. I looked at your status, instead of your name--sorry!
Sandy


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## Colette Duke (Mar 14, 2011)

Ah.  If you're going to call me something besides my name, I'm happy for it to be an author I admire.


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Hey, gang. Hope you've been well--I feel like I haven't been here forever! I have a question for my coffee experts: I am leaving on Tuesday for Zurich and Rome. Zurich is where the annual meeting of the International Assoc. of Crime Writers is and we're going to be taking a scenic train from Chur, Switzerland to Tirano and then Milano, Italy, before going on to Rome to stay with a friend. 

That friend is a lovely woman who has already teased me about drinking capuccinos (or lattes, in my case) beyond breakfast, because that's apparently what children in Italy drink. Given that I write books set in a coffeehouse, I'm happy to be educated by my Italian friends, but....well, I don't want to embarass myself.  Any tips you can give me on European coffee-drinking?  Or travel tips in general?  It's my first trip there!!

With thanks,
Hyper-caffeinated Sandy


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm in the same -- if smaller -- boat. Until a couple of years ago, my foreign travels were the two "T's". Tijuana to the south and Toronto to the north. And even those, only once. I have a huge learning curve!!  
I am SO excited!!
Sandy


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## NapCat (retired) (Jan 17, 2011)

I was fortunate to travel Northern Italy some years ago......just show an interest and ask any question, and your host will be honored to show you around the establishment and share all sorts of culinary advice.....Sounds like a wonderful trip.....yes I am jealous !


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## SandraBalzo (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you NapCat--I can't wait!!


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

daveconifer said:


> I've always prided myself on not caring what my coffee tasted like. If it was hot and brown it was always good enough for me. When certain coffee wasn't good enough for somebody I secretly thought "elitist!" Lately, though, I've noticed that in certain places I've been spending time, the coffee tastes horrible. It pains me to say but somewhere in the back of my mind I had a notion of going and buying a name brand cup and savoring it. I quickly stamped it out of course, but it made me face up to this. Why do I suddenly care? Yikes! I don't want to be a coffee snob!


An acquired taste? Possibly.

It has nothing to do with snobbery. It has to do with preferring something that tastes good.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

I just realized I've been paying twice what I should for my coffee (in the flavored-coffee aisle, where you fill the bag with beans yourself). On the opposite side of the aisle, there are unflavored beans, twice as much in the bag, for the same price. I'll add my own vanilla, thank you very much.

Not a coffee snob, because I'm too cheap frugal.


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## JRTomlin (Jan 18, 2011)

Aislynn Archer said:


> I just realized I've been paying twice what I should for my coffee (in the flavored-coffee aisle, where you fill the bag with beans yourself). On the opposite side of the aisle, there are unflavored beans, twice as much in the bag, for the same price. I'll add my own vanilla, thank you very much.
> 
> Not a coffee snob, because I'm too cheap frugal.


I generally prefer my coffee unflavored, but if you want it flavored adding your own aso tastes better.


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## Retired (May 6, 2011)

JRTomlin said:


> I generally prefer my coffee unflavored, but if you want it flavored adding your own aso tastes better.


Great point. I'm going to try mixing in a little cocoa powder. I love my mocha.


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