# Washington Post Says Not to Buy a Kindle for Christmas



## Gables Girl (Oct 28, 2008)

The Tech column at the Washington Post listed their do not buy tech gifts for this year and they Kindle was one of them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/19/AR2008111903686_2.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter

Said it needs design upgrades and that there are not enough books available for it and they cost too much. He liked other ebooks even less.

He must have spent all of 5 minutes with one or is reading the Kindle Forum on Amazon too much.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

So, everyone go out and buy your Kindle and prove him wrong. Oh, we already have! 

I was looking at the Sony for a few years, didn't like it-or the cost. When Kindle came along, I knew this was the one for me.

I think MR.Washington Post needs to stick with Dead Tree Books, that might make him happy.


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

I feel like he's right -it does cost too much considering all the upgrades it needs. 
Having said that, I'm extremely happy with Skinderella, and I have come to accept that I spent too much, otherwise I'd be unhappy, too.
If they don't make improvements, both in outside design, and software, I won't buy another.

I think for those of us who are happy (for now) with the limitations, like you can't make folders to clean up the eleventy thousand pages of books listed, it's a wonderful purchase. But I can totally see why (from reading only your post and not his review) he has a problem considering it a gift to recommend.

he's prolly also a little crazy *snort*


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

> like you can't make folders to clean up the eleventy thousand pages of books listed


Folders are a Necessity for the Kindle. I think I will write Amazon everyday and ask for Folders.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

It sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about. There was a blog on ZDNet the other day by a guy who is very anti-Kindle. He had come up with an excel spreadsheet trying to determine when a Kindle would pay for itself--a breakeven point, as it were. By his assessment, it would take several years and since he doesn't believe that the Kindle will be around for several years, he concluded that the Kindle was not a good investment. (I didn't agree with his calculations or assumptions, btw). Anyway, it sounds like this writer got some of his info on cost and payback from that blog.

L


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

Leslie said:


> It sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about. There was a blog on ZDNet the other day by a guy who is very anti-Kindle. He had come up with an excel spreadsheet trying to determine when a Kindle would pay for itself--a breakeven point, as it were. By his assessment, it would take several years and since he doesn't believe that the Kindle will be around for several years, he concluded that the Kindle was not a good investment. *(I didn't agree with his calculations or assumptions, btw).* Anyway, it sounds like this writer got some of his info on cost and payback from that blog.
> 
> L


I, however, _do_ agree with your decision to use Hugh, hubba-hubba hottie-man, Jackman as your AV.


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Sounds like this guy is miffed because no one's getting him a Kindle for Christmas.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

KindleCat said:


> I, however, _do_ agree with your decision to use Hugh, hubba-hubba hottie-man, Jackman as your AV.


Thank you! Although I am sure I am bugging Bacardi Jim 

L


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

KindleCat said:


> I, however, _do_ agree with your decision to use Hugh, hubba-hubba hottie-man, Jackman as your AV.


She has a spiteful ulterior motive for that, I could be wrong though, it happened once.


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## Mikuto (Oct 30, 2008)

gertiekindle said:


> Sounds like this guy is miffed because no one's getting him a Kindle for Christmas.


Sounds about right to me. Although it seems to me that Kindle haters fall into one of two categories.

A. People who don't read nearly enough for it to be a good purchase for them anyway

or

B. Luddites who wish we could go back to clay tablets.

I bought my Kindle last month and it is, without a doubt, the BEST 300 dollars I have spent on a gadget. Had I not bought one I would have LOVED to receive one for Christmas and I know that a lot of people I have shown it to feel the same way.


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## hazeldazel (Oct 30, 2008)

I agree that if you're not a reader then it probably doesn't make economic sense to buy a Kindle.  But if that's the case, you need to go back to your cave and stop writing about new-fangled whatchama-gizmos in newspapers anyway.  

This is a first-gen product!  Anything will be a bit clunkier and awkward during its initial rollout, and really, it does EVERYTHING I need it to do.  Anything else, like folders, slightly better positioned buttons, etc. are minor tweaks that would be appreciated but not critical for me to read and enjoy books.  One year after launching the Kindle, Amazon has approximately 200,000 titles available and of course, there are thousands and thousands more available at other ebook companies.  I spent $399 for the 1st gen iPhone, and a couple hundred for my iPod.  Are they luxuries?  Yes.  Do they really pay for themselves?  No.  Do they change everything?  Yes!  Saying that it's not a good idea for someone to buy a Kindle purely using an economic argument is totally ignoring why gagillions of consumers have bought all these different types of electronics.  They're paradigm shifters and I guess, you either "get it" or you don't.  

Another thing, don't forget the intangibles: I live in a tiny apartment and storage was getting to be a real issue for me - not anymore!  I also don't have to worry about schlepping to the bookstore for a book they may not carry, and if I want to subscribe to the WSJ or NYT it will simply be there every morning (and at a lot less cost to this California girl), plus with the ability to try samples I will be more willing to try new authors or genres.  

Personally, I think the Kindle will be very successful just like the iPod was.  Yes, there will be stumbling points along the way but considering that Amazon isn't going anywhere and their enormous marketshare, I think they will get publishers and consumers on board.  And just like the negotiations Apple had with music companies about DRM for the music downloads, the fact that the Kindle ebooks are protected will really help make it happen.  

If we see in the next year (as I think we will), an agreement between Amazon and college textbook publishers to carry textbooks then we'll know that the Kindle isn't a flash in the pan gizmo.  It will be here to stay.


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## Mikuto (Oct 30, 2008)

hazeldazel said:


> Another thing, don't forget the intangibles: I live in a tiny apartment and storage was getting to be a real issue for me - not anymore! I also don't have to worry about schlepping to the bookstore for a book they may not carry, and if I want to subscribe to the WSJ or NYT it will simply be there every morning (and at a lot less cost to this California girl), plus with the ability to try samples I will be more willing to try new authors or genres.


This was one of the major selling points for me. I live in a one bedroom apartment with 2 other people, and while it's a tight squeeze, the only space problems I've noticed are with my books! I filled up the bookcase that I was allowed, and was getting ready to start stacking new books on top of one another or putting two lines on the shelf, one in front of the other.

Now I'm planning on getting rid of all of my DTBs that can be bought or otherwise found in Kindle Format, therefore making more space for the books that will never be available on Kindle (J.K. Rowling, I'm looking at you!).

Forget the money, the cost of "space" that this is saving me is worth it purchase alone.


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## quickfics (Oct 27, 2008)

Many like the WaPo guy are overly concerned with the Kindle's break-even point. It's true that, for many of us, it may never actually pay for itself, but I don't believe saving money is the reason we made the purchase. Speaking for myself (heck, I'll speak for all of you) the Kindle was TOTALLY WORTH IT, because of the convenience, portability, and readability. I'm sure he has no problem justifying buying an iPod or a DVD player, and where is the break-even point on those? It's time folks stopped thinking of books as sacrosanct and realize they are media, like music and movies, and any technology that improves the overall experience of that media should be embraced.


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## Mom of 4 (Oct 27, 2008)

quickfics said:


> Many like the WaPo guy are overly concerned with the Kindle's break-even point. It's true that, for many of us, it may never actually pay for itself, but I don't believe saving money is the reason we made the purchase. Speaking for myself (heck, I'll speak for all of you) the Kindle was TOTALLY WORTH IT, because of the convenience, portability, and readability.


Thank you quickfics! I will never reach my break-even point because before kindle I traded books, bought them used, went to the library, or got them at Costco. The advantage of not having dtb all over my house, the instant gratification of whispernet, the free samples that have led me to new genres and authors are above and beyond any monetary "break-even point" you can work up on a spread sheet!


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

quickfics said:


> It's time folks stopped thinking of books as sacrosanct and realize they are media, like music and movies, and any technology that improves the overall experience of that media should be embraced.


Thank you, quickfics! I agree 100%.

Actually, for me, my Kindle did "pay" for itself, during a business trip back in June. I was traveling with two others and we had one rental car so I was dependent on the driver to get around (we were not in a city so walking was not an option). Being able to get the New York Times every morning and buy a few books over the course of the week made me value my Kindle far beyond its price tag.

L


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## Teach142 (Oct 28, 2008)

I am happy with my 1st gen.  I might buy a new one if the upgrade is worth it.  I have a 1st gen Ipod Touch and am not impressed with the 2nd gen.  You cannot charge the 2nd through the speaker systems that are out there.  So, as an adopter of upgrades, I am not buying the new one.  Could happen with Kindle...  The upgrades might not be worth anything.  We'll just have to wait and see and stop speculating.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

Mikuto said:


> I live in a one bedroom apartment with 2 other people...












Now hold on just a gosh darned minute!


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## Mikuto (Oct 30, 2008)

Bacardi Jim: The landlord knows. Apparently we have not yet reached the maximum capacity for that apartment size


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

Mikuto said:


> Bacardi Jim: The landlord knows. Apparently we have not yet reached the maximum capacity for that apartment size


Lucky for you that you don't live in Kansas. In a lot of ways, actually.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Well, I proved him wrong. I just ordered my Kindle as a Christmas present to myself, if it comes by then  

I literally just ordered it like 10 minutes ago   

I did a lot of research and thinking, but it does what I need it to do. I guess it comes down to what one's needs are. 

I did have to wait this long to order as it is a bit expensive and I had to save up my money first. Now of course shipping time is 3-4 weeks. 

Oh yeah, I am new Hi . I tend to just jump right in lol.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Welcome Atunah, glad to have you here!

Congratulations on your Kindle purchase! You can join the anxious waiters, we have a few of them around here....

L


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## Wisteria Clematis (Oct 29, 2008)

Gables Girl said:


> The Tech column at the Washington Post listed their do not buy tech gifts for this year and they Kindle was one of them.
> 
> Said it needs design upgrades and that there are not enough books available for it and they cost too much.


Piffle! I am betting this will go down in history as one of the more short sighted and ludicrous reviews of all time.


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## robin.goodfellow (Nov 17, 2008)

rofl.  Not enough books.  That's hilarious.

Everyone's right.  You can't calculate a break-even point if you're a book reader.  Just like there's not a break even point with an ipod for a music junkie (also guilty).

You know, unless you start counting up the cost of hauling, say, 10 books with you on an airplane for a business trip.    Then I anticipate the savings will stack up nicely next to the cost.  

but the kindle is just like any other luxury item:  there's no need trying to justify to people who weren't sitting around thinking how useful an item like that could be before it was invented.  People who don't play golf will never understand $500 golf clubs, for example.

Just an observation.  the WaPo guy needs to lighten up.

~robin


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Atunah said:


> Well, I proved him wrong. I just ordered my Kindle as a Christmas present to myself, if it comes by then


Congrats on your purchase, Atunah, and welcome to our obsession!! Glad you are here!



robin.goodfellow said:


> rofl. Not enough books. That's hilarious.
> 
> Everyone's right. You can't calculate a break-even point if you're a book reader. Just like there's not a break even point with an ipod for a music junkie (also guilty).
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely Robin! I have a cousin who wants to be a Bass Pro... It is hard for me to understand how someone can invest so much money into boats, fishing stuff and contest fees on the off chance they might pick up a sponsor so they can fish for a living!!

I didn't buy my kindle because I was looking for it pay for itself... I love to read and that is all there is to it! Would I like some improvements?? Yes, folders would be great, will I care if that never happens... NO.

Will I buy an improved, 2nd or 3rd generation?? Possibly, depends on the improvements!!

I agree the price is steep, but it is what I wanted. If the price comes down, great!! Maybe then I can buy one for my mom and others.

I think the WaPo guy needs to get a life and maybe read a book or 2 for fun!!


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## cush (Oct 27, 2008)

Atunah said:


> Well, I proved him wrong. I just ordered my Kindle as a Christmas present to myself, if it comes by then


Welcome Atunah! You will have a good time with your Kindle and here in our Community.
Don't hesitate to check the helpful Tips and Tricks for help or to ask here if you are stumped.

I'm always amused by the perspective that some tecchies bring to a review or evaluation of a product, You know the type, hand wringing over the possibility that there might be a newer, "improved" version coming along next year (of course there will be- this is the way technology works!), creating massive spreadsheets to evaluate all possible features against others, and becoming so wrapped up in the details that they miss the chance to experience, as a user, the object they are evaluating. I imagine most of these guys as constipated 40 year olds still living at home bragging on line with others of their kind about their kick butt gaming computer they put together themselves from discards. These are also the guys that whine because they actually have to *pay* for ebooks snd can't share them endlessly with their buddies.

I have a hard time imagining a better reading device than my 1st Generation Kindle, although I would like folders 
I even find the original case OK, with some Velcro tm added, but I think there is a Oberon cover in my (near) future.


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## Marci (Nov 13, 2008)

Atuna -

Jumping in is welcomed here!  Glad you can join us & enjoy yourself here at Kindleboards.  You can commiserate with the other "anxious waiters" for the arrival of their Kindles.

Westeria, I   at your leading word for your repsonse, "Piffle".  I have not heard that word in while!  And it is very fitting, indeed.

Robin, great post!

Cheers,

Marci


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks guys for the welcome. 

I like to think of myself of a mini techie if you will. You can go out and buy any kind of electronics and withing 2 months there is another technology out there. The Kindle like any other gadget will be worth it for those that find it useful. I for one have no use for a fancy cell phone,  but you couldn't pry my computer or Tivo out of my dead hands. I don't make enough phone calls to justify an expensive phone, but I love to read. 

I also have no use for an MP3 player, not because I don't love music, but I prefer to listen to music on a nice stereo and even super audio or DVD audio. That's another gadget I have. 

So his opinion is really quite useless.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I really think my Kindle will start paying for itself with the vast majority of the books I have been get for free or a percentage off. I am also one of those people who will drive across town to get a hold of a book so I could start reading that day, so I have been saving on gas. (in Vegas...it sometimes takes me a half hour to drive 6 miles). I also must include the printer paper and ink I have been saving since I started to all my notes, study guides, and stories on my Kindle. My kindle also helped me find my way when I got lost looking for my favorite dim sum restaurant. Then when I move on to an university dorm, I won't have to pick and choose which books I am going with me. That was too hard the first time.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

Did anybody else actually read the article?

The points made by the author were really pretty valid--two months ago. There _weren't_ that many books available a few months ago. And it is only recently that we have begun to see some of the dramatic drops in price. I suspect that the author was using outdated stats when he wrote the review. And it's also true that I hit the "Next Page" button almost every time I pick my Kindle up.

He also _did_ say that the Kindle is far superior to any other e-book reader.

So don't be too hard on the guy.


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## Mikuto (Oct 30, 2008)

My jabs about Luddites and non-readers were not specific to the author of the WP article, it was a generalized statement based on the arguments against the Kindle I've seen on Amazon.com. Like the people bemoaning the "romance" of the printed page, the smell of a book. 

Don't they realize that with that smell comes mold and book mites? My roommate (one of them) has a good friend, a teacher, who cannot have used books because of a severe allergy to book mites. Tell her about the sensuality of the printed page and she'll laugh in your face.


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## Jen (Oct 28, 2008)

Well, I wish that so many wouldn't have ordered theirs - then I wouldn't have to wait 4 weeks for Matt's!  This wait is SOOOOO much better than my 6 week wait though.  Now I can rub mine in his face... 
Yes, it could have some better features.  But what gadget couldn't be improved?  I'm completely happy with my first gen kindle, and unless they come out with one that cleans my house for me I'm unlikely to buy another one until mine bites the dust.  I'd like folders, but honestly, it doesn't bother me that much.  Actually - I haven't heard many people say this but I do wish the grey background was a touch lighter.  I have very sensitive eyes, and almost always have to use a book light.  But, even still, I love love love it and I'll never go back!


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Leslie said:


> , he concluded that the Kindle was not a good investment.
> 
> L


It never occurred to me to consider the Kindle as an investment. I don't see how it would appreciate in value.

Mike


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

robin.goodfellow said:


> rofl. Not enough books. That's hilarious.
> ~robin


Well, there are certainly not enough books available for the Kindle that _I_ would like to read. I rarely read anything from the NYT best-seller list, for instance. I prefer things in the mystery and SF genres, and those are very poorly represented in the Kindle offerings.

Mike


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

jmiked said:


> Well, there are certainly not enough books available for the Kindle that _I_ would like to read. I rarely read anything from the NYT best-seller list, for instance. I prefer things in the mystery and SF genres, and those are very poorly represented in the Kindle offerings.
> 
> Mike


I'm not a best-seller kind of reader either, and the lack of my favorite authors nearly put me off Kindling. Mystery and historical fiction are probably my favorite genres, and I've discovered new authors in both on the Kindle, thanks to the boards both here and Amazon. Slowly, I'm adding some old favorites and discovering new ones and I'm pretty happy with my choice to Kindle.


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

jmiked said:



> It never occurred to me to consider the Kindle as an investment. I don't see how it would appreciate in value.
> 
> Mike


My parents consider my kindle an investment for my safely, becuase my room is a fire hazard with the all the books in there.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Gables Girl said:


> The Tech column at the Washington Post listed their do not buy tech gifts for this year and they Kindle was one of them.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/19/AR2008111903686_2.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
> 
> ...


I only read the Kindle part, and I have to say, I didn't disagree with him on the things he said, only with his conclusion to not buy the Kindle. He said

--it could have faster screen redrawing (admit it, you had to get used to the screen refresh),

--an arrangement of buttons to not make it so easy to hit "next page"; something almost everyone complains about at first

--he says the inventory of books isn't big enough--well, we certainly are doing a lot of complaining in the Book Corner about books not yet on Kindle

--he says the books aren't discounted enough--and I've heard that comment made on these boards too.

On the other hand, he says the Kindle is "fascinating" and that the Whispernet gives the Kindle "quick, simple over-the-air downloads."

So my issue is not that he wasn't accurate about the Kindle's flaws, just that the flaws don't override Kindle's strengths and make it a dud.

What do you think?

Betsy


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## ABC (Nov 11, 2008)

For those of us who LOVE to read, the ability to always have interesting and diverse reading material is priceless.  I love when I am delayed in a waiting room and have my current book(s) I'm reading with me.  I generally have 2 going at once, one fiction, one non fiction and love being able to read exactly what I feel like reading.  

The savings from not having to purchase a new bookcase pays for the Kindle, but that's not why I bought it.


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## Chad Winters (Oct 28, 2008)

robin.goodfellow said:


> rofl. Not enough books. That's hilarious.
> 
> Everyone's right. You can't calculate a break-even point if you're a book reader. Just like there's not a break even point with an ipod for a music junkie (also guilty).
> 
> ...


I agree Robin, the Kindle reviews are a study in comparing apples and oranges. 
I am an avid reader, and I feel my money was well spent and resulted in hours of enjoyment. I have 29 pages of books to read and they are accumulating faster than I can read them.

It amazes me that people who bash the Kindle as too expensive think nothing of spending $300.00 on a Wii or Xbox, then buying $60.00 games to play on it. Or a $300.00 Blu-Ray DVD player with $20.00 movies.

I don't have either of those and I'm pretty sure my "per hour of entertainment cost" is much less


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## Gertie Kindle (Nov 6, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> So my issue is not that he wasn't accurate about the Kindle's flaws, just that the flaws don't override Kindle's strengths and make it a dud.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Betsy


Well said, Betsy.

And as *Chad* said, there is no break even point if you're a reader.

Kindling isn't just a fad for us. It's a lifestyle.


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## Mikuto (Oct 30, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> --it could have faster screen redrawing (admit it, you had to get used to the screen refresh),


I thought I would have to get used to the redrawing time at first, then I asked myself how long it takes to turn a page and accurately center yourself on the right keys.



Betsy the Quilter said:


> --an arrangement of buttons to not make it so easy to hit "next page"; something almost everyone complains about at first


Only if I'm shifting position or picking it up while I'm standing or otherwise moving have I accidentally hit a button. I have always held books with one hand, thumb in the spine, so using a Kindle causes me no such trouble



Betsy the Quilter said:


> --he says the inventory of books isn't big enough--well, we certainly are doing a lot of complaining in the Book Corner about books not yet on Kindle


I would agree with him here, though I think he's not taking feedbooks/manybooks/etc into consideration.



Betsy the Quilter said:


> So my issue is not that he wasn't accurate about the Kindle's flaws, just that the flaws don't override Kindle's strengths and make it a dud.


I would agree with you here. It seems that unless you own a Kindle and love it, it's easier to focus on the flaws rather than the tremendous strengths.


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## robin.goodfellow (Nov 17, 2008)

> Well, there are certainly not enough books available for the Kindle that I would like to read. I rarely read anything from the NYT best-seller list, for instance. I prefer things in the mystery and SF genres, and those are very poorly represented in the Kindle offerings.
> 
> Mike


Point well made Mike, but then it's a question of quality over quantity. To say there aren't enough books available when the books number nearly a quarter of a million of them is to not give Amazon their due on initial release stats. True enough, there's two (TWO?!?!)* Douglas Adams book available, two Jimmy Buffett books available (and neither of those was all that good), no copies of "To Kill a Mockingbird"-surely a crime against humanity-and many new books aren't automatically released to Kindle yet. In addition, there are some series books where the entire series is not available, which is a serious drawback. And, I'm not positive that there is more than a herd of people who rush out to buy books on the NYT best seller list, unless it's people who work for the NYT, or people who have no intention of reading them, and like the cache of owning NYT best sellers. Let's be realists for a moment: Amazon would sell more kindles if they advertised they had every book on the Oprah list.

But whether you like them or don't, to say that 200,000 of something isn't enough is laughable. Certainly, it exhibits a lack of perspective on the part of the writer. Because his job is to evaluate the device, not 21st century publishing practices. And, whether it's feasible or even practical, Amazon has a stated goal of getting every book into a kindle format, so they are more than likely aware of the issue and working on it.

And here I'm imagining some poor intern who's job is to stay on the phone all day with publishing companies, estate attorneys, agents, and what have you, trying to find out who needs what forms sent to them, and how many of them need to be witnessed by notary public, which states require a picture of Jeff Bezos in a bunny suit for their files, and whether or not a letter from his fourth grade teacher would suffice if his third grade teacher has gone on to the great elementary school in the sky.

~robin

*Because I don't count "Starship Titanic", as it was written by Terry Jones, and "Salmon of Doubt" was both posthumous and assembled by other people (natch). So that just leaves "deeper meaning of Liff" and "H2G2".

and on a related note: "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

Robin:  Have you played the ST game?  It's pretty darn good.  And his being busy working on it is why he turned the book over to Jones.


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## akw4572 (Nov 3, 2008)

Is the Washington Post available on Kindle?  If so, Amazon should cancel it.


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## robin.goodfellow (Nov 17, 2008)

Hi Jim, 
I have not tried the ST game.  Don't tell anyone, but I am terrible at gaming.  Awful.  Game systems laugh at me as I pass by them.  And I don't have a particular argument with the Starship Titanic book, I like it.  I even like Terry Jones.  I bought my last boyfriend a hardback copy of it (which he kept, bugger it all).  But I still don't count it as a Douglas Adams book.  So to me, it's doubly unfair that the person who would have most appreciated a new format has so few books in it.  It's like George Lucas not having the Star Wars movies available on Blu-ray.  

I'm just sayin' is all....


~robin


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

ST isn't _that_ type of game. It's a point-and-click adventure game for PC. Requires no dexterity at all. Just a good mind for puzzles. And it's a must-play for any Adams fan. He also wrote a text adventure game called _Bureaucracy_ in which you must solve all kinds of puzzles in order to submit a change-of-address card to the post office. There is also a H2G2 text adventure.


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

akw4572 said:


> Is the Washington Post available on Kindle? If so, Amazon should cancel it.


  Oh please. Can this not become the type of board where opinions that one doesn't agree with, or even consider just a plain ol' negative are shunned, or told they don't "belong", etc? 
Tolerence, pls. He's entitled to his opinion, and Amazon, imho, should _not_ cancel out anyone who dares say nanee nanee boo boo about the magnificent Kindle.
It's not like he was racist, or demeaning about anyone, or some other unacceptable opinion. He just didn't fawn all over the Kindle. Big deal.


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## Sailor (Nov 1, 2008)

Atunah said:


> Well, I proved him wrong. I just ordered my Kindle as a Christmas present to myself, if it comes by then
> I literally just ordered it like 10 minutes ago  I did a lot of research and thinking, but it does what I need it to do. I guess it comes down to what one's needs are. I did have to wait this long to order as it is a bit expensive and I had to save up my money first. Now of course shipping time is 3-4 weeks. Oh yeah, I am new Hi . I tend to just jump right in lol.


Welcome Aboard ATUNAH,

Glad you jumped in here. How exciting for you to get your Kindle for a Christmas present. I too did my research, and heck, I mainly want to read books on it and have it as easy as possible. That, Kindle does extremely well; not to mention the whispernet *love it*.

Nice to meet you.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

FWIW, I read the WaPo article -- on Kindle, which is maybe ironic. I disagree with the author's conclusions regarding the device, but I also read his column regularly. He's a tech guy; generally very, very knowledgeable, but I don't think he's a '_reader_'. The problem is that the device shouldn't be reviewed by a gadget guru but by a book guru. Even so, it's not for everyone.

As to reviews, when it first came out I read a lot of the initial reviews, ultimately decided I wanted one -- even though I recognized it as perhaps not quite perfect -- and have now pretty much stopped reading reviews. I don't need to know what 'they' think: I've made up my own mind. I kind of saw this one by accident only because I usually read the guy's column.

Oh, and it would be inappropriate for Amazon to cancel WaPo subscriptions because of the opinion of one of the writers in a column about 10 gadgets of which Kindle was only one reviewed. (Sorry, pretty horrendous grammar there, I think.) That would be


Spoiler



censorship


. I'm sure whomever threw that out there was joking. . .

In conclusion, no point in wasting any energy on the issue. . . .too many books and samples on my Kindle I haven't gotten to (not to mention new posts here. . . . . .)

Ann


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

Ann Von Hagel said:


> I'm sure whomever threw that out there was joking. . .


Ah, you could be right. Hope so.


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## stevene9 (Nov 9, 2008)

How can one determine the $ value of being away on a trip and not having to carry a load of books with you, and more importantly, when you want the next book to read, you can then decide what you feel like reading, and download it if you don't already have it on your Kindle. These are not monetary pleasures, but they are pleasures non-the-less.

Steve


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

jmiked said:


> It never occurred to me to consider the Kindle as an investment. I don't see how it would appreciate in value.
> 
> Mike


True. Buying small electronic gadgets that will superseded by the next version of the same gadget is an expense, not an investment. That's the way I look at it.

L


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

KindleCat said:


> Oh please. Can this not become the type of board where opinions that one doesn't agree with, or even consider just a plain ol' negative are shunned, or told they don't "belong", etc?
> Tolerence, pls. He's entitled to his opinion, and Amazon, imho, should _not_ cancel out anyone who dares say nanee nanee boo boo about the magnificent Kindle.
> It's not like he was racist, or demeaning about anyone, or some other unacceptable opinion. He just didn't fawn all over the Kindle. Big deal.


I am sure it was meant tongue in cheek. We're a pretty funny bunch even when we are being passionate in our opinions. 

L


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

Note that the article summarizes by saying that while one might want to wait on second generation versions of the products mentioned, there is also the chance that there won't _be_ G2 versions of some of them if the first gen versions don't sell enough... so he who hesitates may be lost.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Ann Von Hagel said:


> FWIW, I read the WaPo article -- on Kindle, which is maybe ironic. I disagree with the author's conclusions regarding the device, but I also read his column regularly. He's a tech guy; generally very, very knowledgeable, but I don't think he's a '_reader_'. The problem is that the device shouldn't be reviewed by a gadget guru but by a book guru. Even so, it's not for everyone.
> 
> Ann


Very good point, Ann! Thanks for that...

L


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

Well, I wrote the author and got a nasty email back.


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

BTW - I now officially hate Kindlecat.

No fair with the matching toys.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Jesslyn said:


> Well, I wrote the author and got a nasty email back.


Cool! Let's see! I love reading snarky emails.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

pidgeon92 said:


> Cool! Let's see! I love reading snarky emails.


Yes really...do share!

L


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## Gables Girl (Oct 28, 2008)

I wrote him too and haven't received an answer yet.  Wonder if he will be snarky with me too? I've emailed several of the book reviewers at the WaPo and they have all been very friendly even when I disagreed with them.


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

I realized my error in asking if he talked to people who used them and also suggested that he Google other reviews. I guess I was implying that he hadn't done his homework. In any case.....

Here it is---------------------------------------
If I could make a suggestion: Why don't you try Googling "Pegoraro Kindle review" before making assumptions that will look silly later on?

As that search will reveal, I've spent a great deal of time with the Kindle. Here, for instance, is the review I wrote for the Post a year ago, which mentioned the issues I cited in today's piece:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/12/06/ST2007120600997.html

And here you can listen to me talking in more detail about the Kindle in a show I did with NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92079896

I didn't come to my conclusion lightly. I do think the Kindle has an enormous amount of promise, but it also has problems that will--deservedly--keep it from mass-market status until Amazon addresses them.


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## pidgeon92 (Oct 27, 2008)

Jesslyn said:


> As that search will reveal, I've spent a great deal of time with the Kindle. Here, for instance, is the review I wrote for the Post a year ago, which mentioned the issues I cited in today's piece:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/12/06/ST2007120600997.html


I just read this over, and his point about the lack of books and periodicals was correct when he wrote the article LAST DECEMBER. Perhaps he needs to research it with fresh eyes. Lots of books less than $9.99, and the selection has more than doubled.

I don't agree much with the time lag to get to the next page. It may be a second and a half as he claims, but I don't think I can flip a page any faster.

Myself, I like to lay on my side in bed, and it's cold here in the Midwest, so it's very nice to be able to get under the covers and not have to flip the pages.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Seems like we're spending a lot of energy on a tech column read by a small percentage of the Post's readers (trust me, of all my friends, I'm the only one to read it).

The really geeky people will probably have their own opinion of the Kindle and the non geeky don't read the column.  I don't think it will have much impact.

Betsy


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## Figment (Oct 27, 2008)

To borrow a (ok, well, some) line(s) from one of my current favorite musicals...

How about love?
Have you ever been in love?
Cause if you have, you'll know
That love never accepts a defeat
No challenge it can't meet
No place it cannot go
Don't say no to a woman in love

Don't laugh when I say love
Don't think that I'm naive
Because even a person who's smart
Can listen to their heart
Can listen and believe
So believe in what love can achieve

Do you believe?

I LOVE MY KINDLE!!!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Revealing ignorance:

which musical?

Betsy
who could Google to hide her ignorance but is too lazy.


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## sjc (Oct 29, 2008)

Guess he hasn't read these boards:  Let's go egg his house and toilet paper his trees...lol.


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## robin.goodfellow (Nov 17, 2008)

Funny you should ask, Bacardi Jim.  We had on an old (very very old) computer...and it may even have been an apple, a text-based H2G2 game.  We didn't buy it, but a friend found it while cleaning out a closet in the church basement, and brought it over b/c she knew I loved the books.  While it did help tremendously to have read the books, I still didn't get very far with it.  I think I got Arthur as far as lying in the mud in front of the bulldozer, but that was pretty much it.

Come on, nobody has anything to say about Jeff Bezos in a bunny suit?  That was funny!!



~robin


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## Figment (Oct 27, 2008)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> Revealing ignorance:
> 
> which musical?
> 
> ...


_Legally Blond_...loved the movie, love the music!


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Loved the movie, haven't seen the musical, thanks!

Betsy


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

robin.goodfellow said:


> Funny you should ask, Bacardi Jim. We had on an old (very very old) computer...and it may even have been an apple, a text-based H2G2 game. We didn't buy it, but a friend found it while cleaning out a closet in the church basement, and brought it over b/c she knew I loved the books. While it did help tremendously to have read the books, I still didn't get very far with it. I think I got Arthur as far as lying in the mud in front of the bulldozer, but that was pretty much it.
> 
> 
> 
> ~robin


We got to the screening door in the Heart of Gold but could never demonstrate enough intelligence to open it.

Ann


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

Ann Von Hagel said:


> We got to the screening door in the Heart of Gold but could never demonstrate enough intelligence to open it.
> 
> Ann


We bever managed to catch the Babelfish.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> We bever managed to catch the Babelfish.


Clearly.



Ann


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## DebT (Nov 11, 2008)

Just my two cents but for me...
the Kindle is awesome and I dont even have mine yet....not until Dec3-9th ...in the meantime I haunt the boards and learn everything I can....
The Kindle is a huge price...but I know some that have spent more on a phone...which I find ridiculous...I need to make a call in emergencies and track down the remaining kid at home.....not puruse the net...thats what I have a computer for....
I choose the Kindle for reading for many reasons....space saving....convenience....and my love of reading...I already figured out what I spent last year in books, not all of which I kept, the staggering number for me was well over a thousand dollars....and then I figured what I could have had from Amazon on the kindle....not all of the books I bought are available on the kindle....so that took it to right around 550....hmmmmm even if I bought just the 9.99 books I could have doubled my reading if it was based on money....I'm thinking the Kindle will pay for itself in my world. Bonus was the space and whispernet and one click.....ease....not to mention more space in my jeep for winter essentials with the books not taking the space....
First Gen stuff probably does have quirks....but the bottom line for me is I want to read...I want the device to be plain and almost invisible....comfortable like a book...not trendy and cute. I like that I can buy cards and use this one $359 gadget for as long as I take care of it never lose a book because of space or the jeep jack stabbed it....or from some other random fate. 
I personally would want it for Christmas or Valentines or any other excuse to gift. 
I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my first totally coveted tech gadget.


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## Leslie (Apr 7, 2008)

Jesslyn said:


> I realized my error in asking if he talked to people who used them and also suggested that he Google other reviews. I guess I was implying that he hadn't done his homework. In any case.....
> 
> Here it is---------------------------------------
> If I could make a suggestion: Why don't you try Googling "Pegoraro Kindle review" before making assumptions that will look silly later on?
> ...


What a dope. He can only quote himself? Please. Why would it ever enter anybody's head...except his.. to google, "Pegoraro Kindle review". He needs to get over himself.

L


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

Ann Von Hagel said:


> Clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> Ann


Sorry, I didn't understand that.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> We bever managed to catch the Babelfish.


That Babelfish sequence was hysterically funny. I think I've run through the game two or three times, I'm a dedicated Infocommie, having played all their games. Have you seen the blog on the  sequel ?


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

jmiked said:


> That Babelfish sequence was hysterically funny. I think Ive run through the game two or three times, Im a dedicated Infocommie, having played all their games. Have you seen the blog on the  sequel ?


 I can't read the whole thing here at work, but THANK YOU for this!!!

Any chance you've played the ST game?

Also, I have the entire Zork series on my PC at home.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Sorry, I didn't understand that.


I guess it was a feeble attempt. . .your original quote said



Bacardi Jim said:


> We _bever _managed to catch the Babelfish.


Sorry. Too obtuse I guess. Goes back to that thread a few weeks ago about how my eye ALWAYS goes to the misspelt word. Implication was it wasn't quite English because your Babelfish wasn't working. . . . .

Ann


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

I guess you didn't get MY joke.  I couldn't understand you because I never caught the Babelfish.


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## Ann in Arlington (Oct 27, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I guess you didn't get MY joke. I couldn't understand you because I never caught the Babelfish.


D'oh!

Where's my towel. . . . . .?


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## Boston (Nov 7, 2008)

I wonder what the author had to say when the first PCs for the home were being sold.  

I agree its too early to buy an eReader if you are not an avid reader or most of the content you want is not available.  But because of its simplicity and stand alone capabilities, I would argue that its only for gadget freak.  I also don't see it disappearing soon given Amazon's commitment to the technology.  

Seriously, I wonder if a lot of these reviews are written by people who are the target market or if they actually did more than take the Kindle for a test drive (if that).  

Can someone post the link to the first page of the article so it can be read without signing up?  I would be interested in what else made the list or if it added more insight on the author's criteria  (Thank you)


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## ScottBooks (Oct 28, 2008)

Thank you to those of you (3? 4?) who actually read the article. I subscribe to Rob's blog "Faster Forward" and really admire him. Here's this morning's:

_What Not To Buy: Gadgets To Avoid This Holiday Season

Today's column might as well carry the byline of Mr. Grinch. It's pretty much all negativity, explaining why five kinds of gadgets aren't worth your money this holiday season: Blu-ray high-definition players, XM and Sirius satellite radio receivers, set-top Internet video boxes, phones running Google's Android software and e-book readers like Amazon's Kindle.

My inbox has yet to fill up with "how could you?!" or "Ugh" e-mails from publicists for the companies that make these things, but I'm pretty sure those messages are being composed as I write this.

I understand why they might feel a little blindsided -- I've said complimentary things about all of these things in the past. See, for example, my assessments of such Internet video receivers as Apple's Apple TV and Roku's Netflix Player; T-Mobile's G1 Android phone; and Amazon's Kindle.

(Then again, I've long been a Blu-ray skeptic, and I thought the Sirius-XM merger was a dumb idea from the start.)

If you ask me about these five gadgets again in late 2009, I might be far more optimistic about them -- almost all of their failings are not the result of any technological limits, but business decisions made by companies who could do better. Android phones, for example, should be a much better choice once more than one carrier and manufacturer offer them. On the other hand, companies can be awfully stubborn about admitting they've made a mistake (Apple comes to mind in particular). So I'm really not sure. How about you? How do you think these five gadgets will be doing a year from now? 
_

Note: This is not the article that appeared in the print edition. To read that, go here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/19/AR2008111903686.html?hpid=news-col-blogs

I don't think his email reply was snarky. Restrained comes to mind. He wasn't talking to you folks; he was addressing the great unwashed that don't already love their Kindle. 

Edit: I have an XM radio as well


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## Vegas_Asian (Nov 2, 2008)

I think the Kindle will do well in the next year, if there was more advertising about it. Just yesterday two of my classmate from my japanese class admitted that they have been hinting to their parents that they want a kindle. The thing is their parents (at one point my own parents) had no idea what a kindle was, but they knew about the Sony ereader. Everywhere I go between my classes to chill and read people are approaching me about this device and the vast majority love it. More Advertising for the Kindle!


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## Lotus (Oct 31, 2008)

I think part of the problem is counting the Kindle as a technology device, rather than a reading device. I think it appeals more to readers than gadget fiends. I have no idea what percentage of the population buys more than 10 books a year, but it might be an interesting topic/stat.

Of course, this is coming from an owner of a Blu-Ray and two XM radios.   ... Oh, and an HD player, too. 

I fully agree that a Kindle is not an investment, it's an expenditure. Any of my economics professors would have failed me if I said any different.

Over the years, I've spent many thousands of dollars on tech equipment that eventually became obsolete. I have no doubt that almost every piece of tech in my house (including the Kindle) will one day be a less-than-worthless piece of junk in a landfill.


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## Boston (Nov 7, 2008)

I am not typically an early adopter of new technology and so agree with what he says in theory (but doesn't it apply to most "new" technologies?).  However, I do adopt when I feel the features/functionality indicate that the benefit will offset the cost of adopting early and possible need to upgrade in 1-2 years.

For many avid readers, the Kindle offers enough content and benefit take the plunge.  I'm glad I did and loved it enough to have bought my mom one (who is NOT a gadget freak, tech saavy or an early adopter at all..but she is an avid reader).  

Two things I did not expect in the Kindle (after reading reviews) is that I actually appreciate the design (especially the page turning keys when reading) and I have saved money on book buying (despite the fact that I never paid full price for paper books).  My Kindle will probably pay for itself in 6-9 months (despite reading more). 

I guess my only disagreement with the article is that he blanketly discourages purchasing altogether (without weighing the cost/benefit) if you are a non-gadget freak.  The next version won't necessarily be better for everyone (or cheaper)...look at the Sony PRS-700 versus the PRS-505.


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

Hello Boston and welcome to the boards!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

> Washington Post Says Not to Buy a Kindle for Christmas


OO Good thing I bought it just for me and it has nothing to do with Christmas. For Christmas, I can ask for Amazon gift cards


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> I can't read the whole thing here at work, but THANK YOU for this!!!
> 
> Any chance you've played the ST game?
> 
> Also, I have the entire Zork series on my PC at home.


I bought the entire Infocom line on 3.5" floppy, then several years later, repurchased them all on CD. I loved those games.

What's the "ST"game? Star Trek?

Mike


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

Starship Titanic


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## Angela (Nov 2, 2008)

jmiked said:


> I bought the entire Infocom line on 3.5" floppy, then several years later, repurchased them all on CD. I loved those games.
> 
> What's the "ST"game? Star Trek?
> 
> Mike


We have all the infocome games too (floppy and CD). We started out playing some of those games on the Commodore 64!!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

Angela said:


> We have all the infocome games too (floppy and CD). We started out playing some of those games on the Commodore 64!!


I had a TRaSh-80-CoCo.


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Starship Titanic


Yeah, I did play ST when it first came out. I didn't complete it.

I started out playing the Scott Adams Adventure games on an Atari 800. Seems like a long time ago...... Wait! It was. 

Mike


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

> I had a TRaSh-80-CoCo.


I know what that is, my fist computer was an Atari 800. My very first game was "*Temple of Apshai*" on cassette.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

jmiked said:


> Yeah, I did play ST when it first came out. I didn't complete it.
> 
> I started out playing the Scott Adams Adventure games on an Atari 800. Seems like a long time ago...... Wait! It was.
> 
> Mike


Don't just turn your back on ypur adventure game past. The genre is still (barely) alive and NEEDS the awareness and help of the old-timers. (Of course, the new fans/designers do nothing but spit on us for being obsolete has-beens.... but it's better than being completely ignored.)


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Is the text adventure competition still going on?  Some of those were pretty good!  (Who has all the Infocom games on her computer and used to spend a lot of work hours figuring out "The Cave Adventure" which was on the Wang system...all those twisty mazes, all alike.

Betsy


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## Wisteria Clematis (Oct 29, 2008)

Jen said:


> Actually - I haven't heard many people say this but I do wish the grey background was a touch lighter. I have very sensitive eyes, and almost always have to use a book light. But, even still, I love love love it and I'll never go back!


Jen, has your screen always been this color? I ask because mine is a very, very light grey (nearly beige). I wonder if you might have a defective kindle? It will be interesting to compare it with your boy friend's new kindle when it arrives.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Good tip, you might want to compare it to another Kindle.

Betsy


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## Cat (Nov 10, 2008)

Jesslyn said:


> BTW - I now officially hate Kindlecat.
> 
> No fair with the matching toys.


*struts around showing off*


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## Jesslyn (Oct 29, 2008)

Cat said:


> *struts around showing off*


LOL! you do NOT want to know what my 1st comment was!


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## Mike D. aka jmiked (Oct 28, 2008)

Bacardi Jim said:


> Don't just turn your back on ypur adventure game past. The genre is still (barely) alive and NEEDS the awareness and help of the old-timers. (Of course, the new fans/designers do nothing but spit on us for being obsolete has-beens.... but it's better than being completely ignored.)


I still drop by a few adventure game sites once in a while. I wrote several text adventure games back in the early 1990s, one of which got favorable reviews. I have a large game with the coding about 20% finished that I have never gotten back to writing, since I changed authoring systems after starting it.

Wonder what it would take to be able to play them on the Kindle?


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

jmiked said:


> I still drop by a few adventure game sites once in a while. I wrote several text adventure games back in the early 1990s, one of which got favorable reviews. I have a large game with the coding about 20% finished that I have never gotten back to writing, since I changed authoring systems after starting it.
> 
> Wonder what it would take to be able to play them on the Kindle?


I used to write adventure game reviews professionally for a couple of different sites.


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