# Any LitRPG Authors (readers) in the house?



## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

I'm relatively new to the genre, but I'm having a lot of fun writing in it after a few years of writing to market in other genres. Let's just say I'm more of a gamer than a romantic lover.  

Any other LitRPG authors here at kboards? I'd love to chat about where you think the genre is going in the next 12 to 24 months.

When the Ready Player One movie releases in 2018, I think LitRPG is going to take-off in a big way. 

Thoughts? Questions? Discussion?

Thanks!


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## CassieL (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm not, but there is a big FB group that you also might want to join if you haven't already. I know some of the bigger LitRPG authors are part of it and it's open to readers as well. So whichever side you're on, reader or writer, looks like a valuable resource to me.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LitRPGGroup/


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

Cassie Leigh said:


> I'm not, but there is a big FB group that you also might want to join if you haven't already. I know some of the bigger LitRPG authors are part of it and it's open to readers as well. So whichever side you're on, reader or writer, looks like a valuable resource to me.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/LitRPGGroup/


I tried, but Aleron Kong wouldn't let me in. He said it's because I use a pseudonym. I've heard he's had problems with other authors, so I'm not too concerned about it. I did find LitRPG Society, run by Blaise Corvin, to be a lot more welcoming.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LitRPGsociety/

Thanks for the heads-up, though!


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

I'm currently working on a LitRPG.  It's been one of the most fun stories I've written, but it takes a lot of work managing the game mechanics, stats, loot, system messages, VR and reality.  I've played video games for most of my life, so I feel I have a good grasp of it, but it is daunting.  I'm hoping to be ready to launch late July with a little luck.  The demand still far outweighs what authors are putting out, and I definitely think readers can tell if it's half-assed or not.  In the end, it's a booming genre, but quality writing is what will stand out.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

Lee Sutherland said:


> I'm currently working on a LitRPG. It's been one of the most fun stories I've written, but it takes a lot of work managing the game mechanics, stats, loot, system messages, VR and reality. I've played video games for most of my life, so I feel I have a good grasp of it, but it is daunting. I'm hoping to be ready to launch late July with a little luck. The demand still far outweighs what authors are putting out, and I definitely think readers can tell if it's half-assed or not. In the end, it's a booming genre, but quality writing is what will stand out.


I hear you on the need for a super-enhanced book-bible! I've been using a spreadsheet to track xp and what-not. Any tips you have to make it easier? I've been thinking about programming a simple tool to make it easier somehow.

Let me know when you're ready to launch, and I'll get you into our newsletter that goes out every Wednesday. There's definitely a LOT more people getting into the genre, which is a good thing for the readers, imho.

The LitRPG readers are very, very picky I've learned, but I'm working hard on my second book in the series. After book two, I have a standalone planned based on Roguelike games. Fun times!


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

Paul Bellow said:


> I hear you on the need for a super-enhanced book-bible! I've been using a spreadsheet to track xp and what-not. Any tips you have to make it easier? I've been thinking about programming a simple tool to make it easier somehow.
> 
> Let me know when you're ready to launch, and I'll get you into our newsletter that goes out every Wednesday. There's definitely a LOT more people getting into the genre, which is a good thing for the readers, imho.
> 
> The LitRPG readers are very, very picky I've learned, but I'm working hard on my second book in the series. After book two, I have a standalone planned based on Roguelike games. Fun times!


Nice. I'm currently posting my chapters to Royal Road as I write them to get feedback from the diehards so I can make changes as I write. The LitRPG community is a really valuable resource I've found, because they want the books to be just as good as you do.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

Lee Sutherland said:


> Nice. I'm currently posting my chapters to Royal Road as I write them to get feedback from the diehards so I can make changes as I write. The LitRPG community is a really valuable resource I've found, because they want the books to be just as good as you do.


Yeah, I used RRL for my first. I may use it for my third. And yeah, the fans have been great for the most part.

Have a link to your RRL page? I'll try to check it out.


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## Flay Otters (Jul 29, 2014)

Working on the first of a series right now.
Hope the genre stays hot long enough


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## LSBurton (Jan 31, 2014)

Paul Bellow said:


> I'm relatively new to the genre, but I'm having a lot of fun writing in it after a few years of writing to market in other genres. Let's just say I'm more of a gamer than a romantic lover.
> 
> Any other LitRPG authors here at kboards? I'd love to chat about where you think the genre is going in the next 12 to 24 months.
> 
> ...


It's an interesting genre. I had a client who came to me with a LitRPG piece, and I was enjoying it. I've been playing games all my life, but after 30-40 pages I realized they were describing a game that I've played a LOT. The more I read, the more obvious it became they were using the game elements exactly. It was at that point that I began to get a little wary, because it wasn't set in a game world with generic elements, its world was someone else's intellectual property. It was like fan fiction put out there for commercial gain.

I asked some other authors what they thought. One of them happened to be finishing their law degree, and it turns out that a game's "expressive elements" are copyrightable, and in this case the author was probably violating that copyright. If they had used generic game elements, they would have been fine, but they had used this game's world exactly. Chances are they would have been fine, but I had to tell them I wasn't comfortable with moving forward.

Funny thing was, the book's success would have been to its detriment. The more popular it became, the more likely it would be noticed by the game company.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

LSBurton said:


> It's an interesting genre. I had a client who came to me with a LitRPG piece, and I was enjoying it. I've been playing games all my life, but after 30-40 pages I realized they were describing a game that I've played a LOT. The more I read, the more obvious it became they were using the game elements exactly. It was at that point that I began to get a little wary, because it wasn't set in a game world with generic elements, its world was someone else's intellectual property. It was like fan fiction put out there for commercial gain.
> 
> I asked some other authors what they thought. One of them happened to be finishing their law degree, and it turns out that a game's "expressive elements" are copyrightable, and in this case the author was probably violating that copyright. If they had used generic game elements, they would have been fine, but they had used this game's world exactly. Chances are they would have been fine, but I had to tell them I wasn't comfortable with moving forward.
> 
> Funny thing was, the book's success would have been to its detriment. The more popular it became, the more likely it would be noticed by the game company.


Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I based my game mechanics loosely on the d20 system with my own additions and changes. Definitely a good point, though. I think I saw a book based in the Halo universe the other day, but I didn't look closely. It might've actually been written with permission. Definitely good points you bring up, though.


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## Christopher Kerns (Dec 18, 2014)

I've indie pubbed two tech thrillers, but currently posting chapters of my new story up on RR as I edit the first draft. I'd consider it "LitRPG-Lite," in that it takes place in VR worlds with game mechanics and levels, but is light on tables and specific skill point info (which I find to be a bit distracting when reading.)

It's called "Side Quest" - would love feedback from anyone here: https://royalroadl.com/fiction/11399

The interesting part of this being my first time doing RR, and being a data person in my day job, is tracking chapter reads and charting dropoff. Currently seeing a 30% dropoff from Ch1 to Ch2, and then a few %s dropoff, chapter by chapter, beyond there (it's hard to tell how many are dropping off vs. still reading.) I took this info to do a few edits on Chapter 1 to hopefully make it pull the reader in more, but not sure what kind of benchmarks are out there. I'd guess lots of people read Chapter 1 and say "not for me," but interested to see the dropoff rates others are seeing?

If anyone interested in sending your chapter data my way, I'm happy to compile it all so we can all learn!


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## Dhayaa Anbajagane (Feb 23, 2014)

Hey there!

I've been a Sci-Fi Author for a while now, and as a big fan of Sword Art Online, I always envisioned writing a video game book. Didn't think it would sell until I found the LitRPG Genre growing in the corner. I've been around the LitRPG bubble for about a year now. Finally stepped into it about three months ago with my first LitRPG series. Needless to say, my first LitRPG book has been doing very well since release. Regarding the future of LitRPG, I think it's been growing at an exponential and like someone said before me, I'm totally looking forward to seeing what happens to genre once the Ready Player One movie drops in March 2018.


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## Christopher Kerns (Dec 18, 2014)

Dhayaa Anbajagane said:


> Hey there!
> 
> I've been a Sci-Fi Author for a while now, and as a big fan of Sword Art Online, I always envisioned writing a video game book. Didn't think it would sell until I found the LitRPG Genre growing in the corner. I've been around the LitRPG bubble for about a year now. Finally stepped into it about three months ago with my first LitRPG series. Needless to say, my first LitRPG book has been doing very well since release. Regarding the future of LitRPG, I think it's been growing at an exponential and like someone said before me, I'm totally looking forward to seeing what happens to genre once the Ready Player One movie drops in March 2018.


Great point with Ready Player One - I think that should throw some more fuel on the fire for sure.


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## Benjamin Douglas (Aug 1, 2015)

*waves*  Hi Gamerz.

I'm just popping my head in here to read the room a little. I have a few non-LitRPG irons in the fire, but with the Ready Player One film coming out next year, as has been pointed out, the subcat might expect a bump. So I have two questions for all y'all, if anyone feels like chatting:

1.) KU or Wide? Where are the LitRPG readers? No need to speculate--I fully realize I could come up with some rough idea by doing a little Amazon research; just asking in case it's obvious and everyone 'in the know' knows. Care to clue a writer in, if that's the case?

2.) I invite you all to suggest a LitRPG book for me to read. Other than Ready Player One, which I'll write off as obvious. What's your favorite, what's hot, what do you think epitomizes the best of the genre?

Thanks all! Back to work


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## thebriansimons (Feb 19, 2017)

Hi Benjamin!

I don't often chime in here, but as a LitRPG author I thought I might have something useful to add 

1) KU.  This genre is still gaining readers, but the community is small.  Readers are largely Amazon-based, and many are in KU.  If anything, start in KU for the rank bump there and then consider going wide.

2) Of course I'd like to highlight my own writing here - I have the third installment in my Travail Online series coming out later this month.  There are a few other books I would recommend reading if you're going to join the LitRPG crowd.  Travis Bagwell's Awake Online is a well-loved series starter (two out in the series so far).  It has more of a YA flavor.

Then, understanding the genre is difficult without reading Aleron Kong's The Land series.  "Founding" is the first book, and it's often free or 99c.  (the other five books out so far are higher priced).  He's not in KU anymore.  His series has coarser humor.  Both books include status updates, which a lot of LitRPG fans look for.  Other fans will say that status updates are annoying and "filler."  You can't please everyone!

I also enjoy James Hunter's Viridian Gate Online series, and Matt Diniman's Dominion of Blades.  They offer a good idea of how video game mechanics play a necessary role in the storytelling.  They're also clearly professionally edited, which isn't always the case with LitRPG books.

It's great that you're interested in reading the genre before jumping in.  You'll definitely get shunned by the community if you don't meet the standard of what counts as LitRPG.  My own books include status notifications about XP gains, leveling up, and descriptions of skills that players can unlock as they progress through the virtual game world.  Attempted LitRPG's tend to get bashed without an emphasis on video game mechanics.  Stats and status updates can't be gratuitous though.  They need to play a real role in the story itself.


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## German_Translator (Jul 26, 2015)

Hi, chiming in as a translator of LitRPG (Brian Simmon's Travail Online vol. 1 into German). 

I found it interesting that several reviewers in Germany mentioned never having heard of this genre. I did a Google Trend search and found that most searches for the term seem to come from Russia and the US right now.

Fascinating to think where this genre might still be going ...


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## thebriansimons (Feb 19, 2017)

Hi Frank!

Frank and I have been hard at work getting the word out to German readers about what LitRPG is and why it's so much fun to read.  Book bloggers really enjoy it so far, and if it takes off in German like it has in English and Russian, Frank and I will be experts on marketing this genre overseas soon.  And then I'll have more info to share with Kboards!


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## Benjamin Douglas (Aug 1, 2015)

Thanks, Brian & Frank!

Sounds like I have some reading to do. Happily, I'm into that    This definitely confirms for me the impression I had that the genre requires a genuine understanding of what else is out there. It's interesting to me that such a relatively young subcat already has such stringent reader expectations. I think it speaks well of the LitRPG reader; that they really, really care.

Thanks again! I'll be sure to stop by if I come across any burning questions that need answers


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## Benjamin Douglas (Aug 1, 2015)

Hello again, people in the know! Back with another question:

I see someone mentioned Sword Art Online, so I jumped into the anime last night. Engrossing! Anyone have any thoughts on how it stacks up against the LitRPG we've been discussing? Similar vibe, tropes, expectations? Or is it a whole different animal?

Thanks everyone


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## BJAllan (Jul 5, 2017)

Hi everyone!

I thought I'd weigh in here. I'm working on a litRPG and hoping the genre is still hungry by the time I put it out. It will be my first novel published (tried to go trad with an earlier novel, got some interest but not enough to secure an agent). I'm still writing the first draft so it will realistically be ready in December, which is apparently a horrible month to release, so I may hold off for January. 

As for the earlier questions, as a reader I've noticed that most litRPGs seem to be in KU, at least for the first book. 

In addition to Brian's recs, I'd add Ascend Online by Luke Chmilenko and Reboot by Domino Finn.


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## Rick Partlow (Sep 6, 2016)

Not a LitRPG writer, but I read that Aleron Kong has successfully trademarked the term "LitRPG."  How do you see that affecting your attempts to market your novels now?


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## Rick Gualtieri (Oct 31, 2011)

Rick Partlow said:


> Not a LitRPG writer, but I read that Aleron Kong has successfully copyrighted the term "LitRPG." How do you see that affecting your attempts to market your novels now?


Not copyrighted, trademarked. There's a bit of a brouhaha going on over on the Facebook litRPG group about it as well as on Reddit.

ETA: I don't write litRPG, but this development should be a bit concerning to anyone who does.


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## BrianDHoward (Jan 31, 2017)

Rick Partlow said:


> Not a LitRPG writer, but I read that Aleron Kong has successfully copyrighted the term "LitRPG." How do you see that affecting your attempts to market your novels now?


Personally, I'm not worried about it at all. For one, it's a preliminary mark that he'll have to defend to get permanent. Secondly, I can't possibly see it standing up in court if it went there. Thirdly, Amazon already lists it as a genre, which makes his move--in my opinion--a pointless act of hubris.


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## Rick Partlow (Sep 6, 2016)

Rick Gualtieri said:


> Not copyrighted, trademarked.


Sorry, I corrected the term in my post.


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## KevinMcLaughlin (Nov 11, 2010)

Rick Partlow said:


> Not a LitRPG writer, but I read that Aleron Kong has successfully trademarked the term "LitRPG." How do you see that affecting your attempts to market your novels now?


First, he's promised to never use it to block the use for books. We shall see - but the public "blanket permission" is probably good enough to hold up in a court at least for now.

Long term? I really wouldn't worry about it much. LitRPG has been in use for half a decade now. Any suit challenging the use of the term to describe this sub-genre would meet the same obstacles Games Workshop did when they tried to stop an author from publishing a "space marine" book. Extensive prior use by a multitude of people to mean a thing makes the trademark difficult to protect. The more time that passes, and the more LitRPG books which come out, the less enforceable the trademark will become.

Remember how hard Xerox, Band-Aid, Kleenex, and other trademarks worked to prevent their trademarks from becoming "the common name" for the thing. Because as soon as everyone uses the word "kleenex" to mean "tissue", they stop being able to defend the use of the word as their trademark. In this case, trademarking a word already in common use for a thing...well.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm not a LitRPG author... yet... However, some of my WoW friends are pushing me to write one and add them as characters in it. I might take them up on that (bwahaha evil cackling). 

I stumbled across a really cute LitRPG, Dungeon Born, by Dakota Krout. It's about a guy who gets killed and his consciousness melds into a stone which turns into a baby dungeon who learns how to create creatures to defend his core from treasure seekers. 

I have always read stories about the games I enjoy (WoW, Diablo) or would enjoy if I didn't get sick (Halo). I never thought to pick up stories that delve into stats and skillups since that's what I do all the time when I play these games. But the stories, when they implement these as a kind of oh crud, I need a new skill stat!, become rather enjoyable. 

Everyone talks about the "New Player One" movie in 2018, but has anyone seen "Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle" yet? The trailer for that looks hilarious.


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## Gareth K Pengelly (Aug 25, 2012)

I've been very tempted to try this genre myself. I'm a massive video-game buff. This thread has pretty much persuaded me to give it a go.

Think I'll definitely read a few books first, familiarize myself with the genre.


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Rick Partlow said:


> Not a LitRPG writer, but I read that Aleron Kong has successfully trademarked the term "LitRPG." How do you see that affecting your attempts to market your novels now?


Actually, he has not. He has only *applied* for the trademark. He and his attorney have completed all of the preliminary paperwork and the notice of the application is scheduled to be published on January 2, 2018. Once it's published (it's called being "published for opposition"), anyone who can put forth their argument in a cogent manner can file an opposition.

This, from the official government site:

_Any entity that thinks it will be harmed by registration of the mark has thirty days from the day the mark is published in the Trademark Official Gazette in which to file an opposition. However, as noted below, extensions of time may be granted, extending that period up to six months._


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

Anybody know how Royal Road works? If you post some sample chapters, is there an expectation that you'll post the whole book? How tough are they on pre-edited manuscripts? How good is the feedback?


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2017)

C. Gold said:


> I'm not a LitRPG author... yet... However, some of my WoW friends are pushing me to write one and add them as characters in it. I might take them up on that (bwahaha evil cackling).
> ...
> Everyone talks about the "New Player One" movie in 2018, but has anyone seen "Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle" yet? The trailer for that looks hilarious.


If you do, for goodness sake give it some gnome love! I played WoW (haven't in a while though) and was an awesome gnome mage -- seriously, as only gnomes with a knack for magical moxie can be (your garden variety gnomenclature doesn't even BEGIN to describe it). The movie had no gnomes  Ok, I know it was due to the period of the story  but still... depressing.

And yes, Jumanji looks hilarious and is definitely a movie form of LitRPG... flickRPG?


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## FelissaEly (Jan 15, 2017)

Hi Paul!

Pretty sure you know (know of? I think) my husband, Stephan Morse  His LitRPG series is in my sig.


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## alawston (Jun 3, 2012)

I wrote a sort of LitRPG story for _Summer's End_, before I became particularly aware of it as a genre. I have a concept and sample chapter for a full novel, which was going to be my NaNo project this year until real life got in the way. I hope to revisit that story as it's a really fun world to play in, but I must admit I'm currently holding until I see how the chips land on this whole trademark business.


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## jlstovall4 (Oct 6, 2015)

Dhayaa Anbajagane said:


> Hey there!
> 
> I've been a Sci-Fi Author for a while now, and as a big fan of Sword Art Online, I always envisioned writing a video game book. Didn't think it would sell until I found the LitRPG Genre growing in the corner. I've been around the LitRPG bubble for about a year now. Finally stepped into it about three months ago with my first LitRPG series. Needless to say, my first LitRPG book has been doing very well since release. Regarding the future of LitRPG, I think it's been growing at an exponential and like someone said before me, I'm totally looking forward to seeing what happens to genre once the Ready Player One movie drops in March 2018.


After watching Sword Art Online, I thought about doing LitRPG too. I do think it will take off next year with Ready Player One, however for me to get in the game will be a bit late. I applaud all of you who have jumped into the waters. What's funny is what many "experts in the field" are missing about LitRPG. It has become Publisher's new escape goat to say "Readers are spending more time playing video games, and that's why they are not reading books." LitRPG proves that's not true. Readers simply want a different type of experience, and they will put down the game controller if someone creates that experience in a book for them.

I think LitRPG has just begin to really take form. In five years there's no telling where it might go. Good luck to all!


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## DonovanJeremiah (Oct 14, 2017)

Paul Bellow said:


> I tried, but Aleron Kong wouldn't let me in. He said it's because I use a pseudonym.


That's a shame. Some writers don't have the luxury of using their given names. Sad that some people don't recognize that.



Paul Bellow said:


> I did find LitRPG Society, run by Blaise Corvin, to be a lot more welcoming.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/LitRPGsociety/
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up, though!


And thank YOU for this society facebook link.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

pwtucker said:


> Anybody know how Royal Road works? If you post some sample chapters, is there an expectation that you'll post the whole book? How tough are they on pre-edited manuscripts? How good is the feedback?


I just banged out my first LitRPG on there for nanowritmo. Was a rewarding and invigorating experience.

The feedback you get is mixed, but most of it is pretty good. There are trolls who will give you 0.5 stars for no reason etc. People who give you 5 stars and just say awesome. I 'think' that they are very representative of the LitRPG fanbase with a couple of exceptions.

There are some, what i call, LitRPG sub genres that basically involve someone reincarnating into a world with game mechanics that they can somehow cheat. These are wildly popular and while the stories don't seem to go anywhere people seem to love the idea of being overpowered (OP).

You'll get alot of feedback on the game mechanics. Especially the more detailed you make them, which is good. This is a trope. As well as progression using those game mechanics.

As for expectations, people will follow you if you post regularly. There is not so much the concept of books on there as just ongoing serial fiction. If you post every day people like that and it will give you visibility.

Some of the feedback you will get is very crass, but it could be useful in pointing out where something may be turning people off. But take it with a grain of salt also. Some people are just there to troll and tear down.

But generally you have a good amount of readers that are tuned in and will stay with you if you are consistent.


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## pwtucker (Feb 12, 2011)

Thanks! Very useful feedback.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Luke Everhart said:


> If you do, for goodness sake give it some gnome love! I played WoW (haven't in a while though) and was an awesome gnome mage -- seriously, as only gnomes with a knack for magical moxie can be (your garden variety gnomenclature doesn't even BEGIN to describe it). The movie had no gnomes  Ok, I know it was due to the period of the story  but still... depressing.
> 
> And yes, Jumanji looks hilarious and is definitely a movie form of LitRPG... flickRPG?


We can't have gnomes... Blizzard always stuffs them in out of the way places and 'forgets' them in their cinematics.  Actually, one of my fellow mages is a gnome, or was until a race change, so I might have one. Some of my favorite NPCs are gnomes too. So I guess you've convinced me!


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## Joseph Malik (Jul 12, 2016)

LitRPG / Gamelit readers have been some of my most ardent fans. Seems they'll take a chance on a new take on a genre, and for my work, they rave about the technical aspects and the consistent worldbuilding, even though my work isn't remotely game-oriented. They may turn out to be a wider market with crossover potential for some fantasy writers; they've certainly been good to me. However, if you bullshit your worldbuilding and hand-wave your details, they will excoriate you. I've seen it happen. Proceed carefully.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

We've been discussing this at the forum...

https://litrpgforum.com/threads/stopping-the-litrpg-trademark.1667/

Some of us are ready to fight this tooth and nail...


```
Your slash MUTILATES the LitRPG Trademark for 93 damage.
```


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

FelissaEly said:


> Hi Paul!
> 
> Pretty sure you know (know of? I think) my husband, Stephan Morse  His LitRPG series is in my sig.


Hey, stranger! And, yup, he's been a good member of the community over at the forum... plus his books rock.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

There's also this from Reddit...



> Guys, he's been granted registration in the SUPPLEMENTAL REGISTER!!! IT DOESN'T GIVE HIM EXCLUSIVITY!!! This kind of registration doesn't entitle him to stop anyone else from using the word!
> 
> The Supplemental Register is the kind of registration they give to generic names in the hope that the mark owner will be able to "grow" it into his own brand name. I repeat: HE HAS NO EXCLUSIVITY RIGHT NOW. He can't stop anyone from using the word. He now has five years to prove he has turned LitRPG into his own brand name. Only then he can reapply to register it "properly" - and if indeed in five years' time he somehow proves that the word LitRPG is firmly associated with his name, then he might receive the right to use it exclusively. If we want to stop him, we need to use the word LitRPG as widely as possible in our books . We have five years to stop him from turning the word into his own brand. Let's do it.


https://www.reddit.com/r/litrpg/comments/7htgig/stopping_the_litrpg_trademark/dqueles/

Quite a few of us authors are working on fighting this for everyone...


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

KevinMcLaughlin said:


> First, he's promised to never use it to block the use for books. We shall see - but the public "blanket permission" is probably good enough to hold up in a court at least for now.
> 
> Long term? I really wouldn't worry about it much. LitRPG has been in use for half a decade now. Any suit challenging the use of the term to describe this sub-genre would meet the same obstacles Games Workshop did when they tried to stop an author from publishing a "space marine" book. Extensive prior use by a multitude of people to mean a thing makes the trademark difficult to protect. The more time that passes, and the more LitRPG books which come out, the less enforceable the trademark will become.


The problem is he's already blocked me and other authors from his Facebook group (which is mostly used to promote his works), and the LitRPG Reddit before he lost moderator permissions...

I bet he'd love if we all just didn't worry about it. After my dealings with Mr. Kong in the past, I don't think I can personally let this slide...

Just a shame he tried to do this in the first place...


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

C. Gold said:


> Everyone talks about the "New Player One" movie in 2018, but has anyone seen "Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle" yet? The trailer for that looks hilarious.


Yup!

I, for one, am calling it LitRPG...

https://litrpgreads.com/blog/jumanji-welcome-jungle-litrpg


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

C. Gold said:


> Everyone talks about the "New Player One" movie in 2018


It's actually _*Ready* Player One_.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

Word Fan said:


> It's actually _*Ready* Player One_.


Maybe New Player One will be the sequel. 

Good call, though. Tick. Tock.

The movie is coming.

Excited about Jumanji 2 too.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Paul Bellow said:


> Maybe New Player One will be the sequel.
> 
> Good call, though. Tick. Tock.
> 
> ...


Yep, that's exactly what I meant  ... ... I'm prescient! 
(Actually, that Jumanji trailer scrambled any coherent thoughts of what the Player One movie was called, lol!)


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## Elliott Kay (Jan 12, 2016)

I've got a novel about a pair of gamers falling into their fantasy game setting (Days of High Adventure), but I published it in 2014 before I even knew LitRPG was a thing. Now I'm wondering if there's anything I should do with the keywords to re-jigger it, or if I shouldn't even try since the story doesn't deal with game mechanics at all. It aligns by definition, but if there are established tropes I don't know 'em. Part of me thinks the audience would still dig it. The other part of me worries the audience might feel misled.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm giving LitRPG a whirl right now, posting my serial on Royal Road. The feedback there has been invaluable, and it's gone well enough that I'll probably be turning the three arcs into a trilogy next year.

It does mean that they won't be in KU, since the bulk of the material's over in Royal Road to read, but oh well.

My story's here: http://royalroadl.com/fiction/15130/threadbare


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

Elliott Kay said:


> I've got a novel about a pair of gamers falling into their fantasy game setting (Days of High Adventure), but I published it in 2014 before I even knew LitRPG was a thing. Now I'm wondering if there's anything I should do with the keywords to re-jigger it, or if I shouldn't even try since the story doesn't deal with game mechanics at all. It aligns by definition, but if there are established tropes I don't know 'em. Part of me thinks the audience would still dig it. The other part of me worries the audience might feel misled.


The game mechanics are a must to be considered LitRPG unfortunately.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

AndrewSeiple said:


> I'm giving LitRPG a whirl right now, posting my serial on Royal Road. The feedback there has been invaluable, and it's gone well enough that I'll probably be turning the three arcs into a trilogy next year.
> 
> It does mean that they won't be in KU, since the bulk of the material's over in Royal Road to read, but oh well.
> 
> My story's here: http://royalroadl.com/fiction/15130/threadbare


You can just truncate your fiction to 10% and still go KU. That's what I'm planning to do with mine on there.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm fairly sure RoyalRoad readers demand a complete (or still ongoing) story. A free sample leading to paid content might be met with angry comments and bad ratings.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

C. Rysalis said:


> I'm fairly sure RoyalRoad readers demand a complete (or still ongoing) story. A free sample leading to paid content might be met with angry comments and bad ratings.


Oh for sure. A lot of the good one's out there get that kind of flack.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Oh lordy, no, I'm not gonna truncate. You don't gain cred and trust with a community, then turn around and DO that.

You're welcome to if you wish, but I think the downsides for me going KU with it would outweigh the benefits.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Oh lordy, no, I'm not gonna truncate. You don't gain cred and trust with a community, then turn around and DO that.
> 
> You're welcome to if you wish, but I think the downsides for me going KU with it would outweigh the benefits.


KU is good for new LitRPG authors, IMHO. Helps that they tend to be longer books.

Also, I've heard of authors having problems with leaving only 10% on RRL and Amazon yanking books for another copy being live. Apparently their bots couldn't distinguish it was only 10%... Just a heads-up!

There's also something new being bandied about - GameLit - which is a bit more inclusive with the definition. A lot of people have broke down LitRPG into soft (less stats) and (hard/crunchy) with TONS of stats. At the LitRPG Forum, we're a bit more open with the definition of LitRPG...

https://litrpgforum.com/threads/whats-a-good-definition-of-litrpg.150/


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## Awasin (Aug 7, 2015)

I've never played an RPG.  Or an MMORPG.  

Ready Player One?  Meh - I preferred John Darnielle's Wolf in White Van, an RPG played - wait for it - by post.

I've watched Sword Art Online - s'ok - and read some LitRPG novels.  I'm also taking a course about how to build games, the coding and everything.  That'll help with verisimilitude, I reckon.  

I understand about leveling up etc.,  but I can't get my head around what makes LitRPG work and what readers are looking for.  I'd welcome any suggestions about how to hit this genre as a novelist.


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## Paul Bellow (May 6, 2017)

Awasin said:


> I've never played an RPG. Or an MMORPG.
> 
> Ready Player One? Meh - I preferred John Darnielle's Wolf in White Van, an RPG played - wait for it - by post.
> 
> ...


Research then hit those tropes. 

There's a pretty wide range of LitRPG these days. I recommend checking out some of the top books. We've been talking about "LitRPG tropes" over at the forum lately.

I've seen quite a few authors coming into the genre over the last year or so. Good times.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

Alix Adale said:


> Forcing game rules onto literary sci-fi protags sounds horrible and self-indulgent. How is this a thing at all?


The game rules don't limit character development, they're just there for the skilling / leveling aspect of the game - and the loot drops.  Apart from that, LitRPG characters are very 'human' - they usually are, after all, _real_ people trapped in a MMORPG environment. They have hopes and fears, fall in love, hang out with friends... and then go kill a boss monster together.

Dang it, this thread makes me want to write in the genre... but I have an UF to finish. Hey, at least I can read Andrew's Threadbare. The blurb sounds sooooo cool! Do you post anywhere else or RRL only? I'll do a review on WFG if you're listed there.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Oh lordy, no, I'm not gonna truncate. You don't gain cred and trust with a community, then turn around and DO that.
> 
> You're welcome to if you wish, but I think the downsides for me going KU with it would outweigh the benefits.


Michael Chatfield seems to have done it successfully with his series. The key is to keep posting your next WIP if you want to stay in that community, but really I think they're two different groups. The people on amazon are not the people on RRL. But they are a great test bed to see if what you're writing is hitting the mark.


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## Joseph Malik (Jul 12, 2016)

I'll admit I initially didn't know LitRPG was a thing, and was taken aback by a message from a reader who wrote to say that he loved my book,  but he found the fight scenes hard to follow because I didn't track stats, hit points and damage. It really is a whole other world.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

Alix Adale said:


> I play games, love games. Read fantasy and sci-fi, love them too. Could kill you nine ways to Sunday in _Fallout 4_, any rules, any platform, mods or no mods, any skill level. By the time you found your ass, I would have the drop on you. I am too good for stories, better than your armor can handle.
> 
> This isn't something I write about. Videogames are a self-limiting genre any writer hates: character is limited this way, limited that way, author has to show this artificial growth spurt at random intervals. It seems nothing about traditional RPG character advancement tracks to classic literary advancement.
> 
> Forcing game rules onto literary sci-fi protags sounds horrible and self-indulgent. How is this a thing at all?


I didn't really understand it either until a read a couple of books and joined some of the societies. The key is not playing games. It's the type of games. RPGs specifically. The "experience" you are selling is two fold. Adventure and discovery and progression and enhancement through the game system. Basically the same thing you get from playing the game yourself. If you can look at it from that angle, it might start to make sense a bit.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

C. Rysalis said:


> The game rules don't limit character development, they're just there for the skilling / leveling aspect of the game - and the loot drops.  Apart from that, LitRPG characters are very 'human' - they usually are, after all, _real_ people trapped in a MMORPG environment. They have hopes and fears, fall in love, hang out with friends... and then go kill a boss monster together.


I wasn't so sure about the genre myself. But...

...well, one of my iconic authors, a man I looked up to for decades, wrote about a goofy little fantasy world made up of giant elephants standing on the back of a turtle, swimming through the void. A world where the absurd and the profound mingled, intermixed, and managed to tell bang-up stories despite the oddities of the setting.

So yeah, LitRPG can be worthwhile. Just depends on how you go about it. Shoot man, when you get down to it, Narnia was one of the early, early ancestors for the notion and THAT turned out pretty good...



C. Rysalis said:


> Dang it, this thread makes me want to write in the genre... but I have an UF to finish. Hey, at least I can read Andrew's Threadbare. The blurb sounds sooooo cool! Do you post anywhere else or RRL only? I'll do a review on WFG if you're listed there.


I don't know what WFG, so I'm probably not on there. RRL's the main site for Threadbare.


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## Elizabeth S. (Oct 20, 2016)

As a former EverQuest nerd and current WoW addict, this subgenre seems perfect for me. I've been glomming the books like crazy lately and would like to try writing one, but...

It seems like a very guy-centric genre now. Do you all think there's an audience for more female-driven stories?


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Tough to say. One of the realities of the genre is that it's descended from anime-related subject matter, and a lot of tropes from that have crept in. Some common ones include harems, casual sexism, and a few other troublesome ones.

I think it's certainly possible, but you'd have to break away from some of the tropes others have leaned on, and you'd have to do it well. A good story will pull readers, though, so if that's the direction you want to take it by all means, give it a whirl.


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

I posted chapters on Royal Road as I wrote them, left them up during the editing process, and then only took down the first few chapters right before I uploaded to Amazon.  That way, most users have the opportunity to read the unedited version for free.  Rinse and repeat for the sequel.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

Lee Sutherland said:


> I posted chapters on Royal Road as I wrote them, left them up during the editing process, and then only took down the first few chapters right before I uploaded to Amazon. That way, most users have the opportunity to read the unedited version for free. Rinse and repeat for the sequel.


You took down the first few chapters and left the rest up?


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Elizabeth S. said:


> As a former EverQuest nerd and current WoW addict, this subgenre seems perfect for me. I've been glomming the books like crazy lately and would like to try writing one, but...
> 
> It seems like a very guy-centric genre now. Do you all think there's an audience for more female-driven stories?


My raid team in WoW has a large number of women in it. So women gamers do exist and they don't just sit there fishing or herbing or cooking. I'm sure there are plenty of women out there who might enjoy LitRPG if it involved kick butt heroines who aren't double Ds and wearing thongs for armor. Unless of course you make fun of the thong armor--that's certainly fair game!

She stuns the enemy for 10s with Cleavage Peek. While he's in a drooling stupor, she separates his head from his body with Swirling Katana Strike.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

Elizabeth S. said:


> As a former EverQuest nerd and current WoW addict, this subgenre seems perfect for me. I've been glomming the books like crazy lately and would like to try writing one, but...
> 
> It seems like a very guy-centric genre now. Do you all think there's an audience for more female-driven stories?


I would say, just like in gaming, the audience is primarily male. The genre also tends to be skewed more toward allowing the reader to "experience" the gaming in first person through the MC, so gender perhaps may play a bigger role when it comes to LitRPG. There's a lot of wish/fantasy fulfillment involved and I think the majority of readers feel more comfortable/can relate to it, when it's their own gender that's in play.

That said, there might be a niche for female LitRPG fans who are starving for a gender role "they" can relate with, because I can't think of any with a female protagonist. But it's likely to be a smaller target market than the male audience. These are just my thoughts.

Perhaps others who have been in the genre more can guide further.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

RScott said:


> That said, there might be a niche for female LitRPG fans who are starving for a gender role "they" can relate with, because I can't think of any with a female protagonist. But it's likely to be a smaller target market than the male audience. These are just my thoughts.


If I ever get around to writing in the genre, I'll go with a brother & sister protagonist team. I don't believe the 'male wish fulfillment' in regards to gender roles is a requirement even though it appears to be fairly common - not just in LitRPG, I've read books in other genres (with a bazillion five star reviews) where every male protagonist was some kind of Gary Stu superhero and every female character dreamed of hopping into bed with them (while also needing to be saved and supported). 

I you have a protagonist readers want to root for, I don't think it matters whether or not they get their harem trope wish fulfillment. Write an interesting RPG game system with an interesting story and kick ass battles, and readers will love it.


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## Natkot (Dec 11, 2017)

Huge coincidence finding this thread: picking up a Kindle soon and just finished Andrew Seiple's Threadbare (spoiler: completely unexpected awesome) _and_ I've been on a litRPG binge _and_ just watched the new Ready Player One trailer. Really happy to see authors discussing the genre because it's growing so fast but it's still so immature as a genre. You can sadly tell when reading about a teddy bear protagonist is more enjoyable than the bulk of the fodder that's being pumped out to meet the demand.

I was going to post a PSA about Aleron Kong attempting to trademark the term 'litRPG' but very gratifying to see authors already fighting it. Net neutrality has struck a nerve in me with these kinds of opportunists.



C. Rysalis said:


> I'm fairly sure RoyalRoad readers demand a complete (or still ongoing) story. A free sample leading to paid content might be met with angry comments and bad ratings.


The most successful RoyalRoad authors are usually aspiring authors who post their stories as a test and draft essentially. Gauge interest and popularity before releasing a more polished e-book.

Using a free sample as an incentive would depend on the reception. If the first arc or book appeals to the crowd, it's a great option to effectively advertise and build a fanbase. Readers on RoyalRoad will read _anything_ and there are _a lot_ of readers on that site.



Elizabeth S. said:


> As a former EverQuest nerd and current WoW addict, this subgenre seems perfect for me. I've been glomming the books like crazy lately and would like to try writing one, but...
> 
> It seems like a very guy-centric genre now. Do you all think there's an audience for more female-driven stories?


I've read somewhere that female players of RPGs outnumber guys. It might depend on the kind of RPG, but I wager the same applies to litRPG. There's definitely a niche: it just depends on how you craft and sell it.

I would highly recommend checking out The Wandering Inn. It's one of the few litRPGs with female protagonist(s) and, in my opinion, one of the crowning exemplars of litRPG. I don't believe it's been verified but I suspect the author is female. With the way the author writes and from reading the readers' comments, it's strangely enough appealing to readers of any gender. I think there's a woeful shortage of litRPGs that are just good stories - sometimes I've felt the game aspect distracts authors from storytelling.


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## AndrewSeiple (Jan 3, 2016)

Lee Sutherland said:


> I posted chapters on Royal Road as I wrote them, left them up during the editing process, and then only took down the first few chapters right before I uploaded to Amazon. That way, most users have the opportunity to read the unedited version for free. Rinse and repeat for the sequel.


Wait, what did taking down the first few chapters do? Keep their bots from picking up your work?

Did you put the chapters back afterward?

That might be the way to go. I own the rights for my story but I KNOW the bots are going to trigger a false positive and a whole chain of ridiculous events unless I find a workaround...


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## S.L. (Jun 6, 2016)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Wait, what did taking down the first few chapters do? Keep their bots from picking up your work?
> 
> Did you put the chapters back afterward?
> 
> That might be the way to go. I own the rights for my story but I KNOW the bots are going to trigger a false positive and a whole chain of ridiculous events unless I find a workaround...





RScott said:


> You took down the first few chapters and left the rest up?


Sorry, took down everything but the first few chapters.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

Lee Sutherland said:


> Sorry, took down everything but the first few chapters.


Ah that makes more sense. How was the reception? Did you get a lot of hate or no? And are you continuing with posting chapters of the second book?


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## Elizabeth S. (Oct 20, 2016)

AndrewSeiple said:


> Tough to say. One of the realities of the genre is that it's descended from anime-related subject matter, and a lot of tropes from that have crept in. Some common ones include harems, casual sexism, and a few other troublesome ones.
> 
> I think it's certainly possible, but you'd have to break away from some of the tropes others have leaned on, and you'd have to do it well. A good story will pull readers, though, so if that's the direction you want to take it by all means, give it a whirl.


I've avoided the harem ones so far! That seems like a niche within a niche. Hopefully as the genre grows, it will open up to a wider variety of stories.



C. Gold said:


> My raid team in WoW has a large number of women in it. So women gamers do exist and they don't just sit there fishing or herbing or cooking. I'm sure there are plenty of women out there who might enjoy LitRPG if it involved kick butt heroines who aren't double Ds and wearing thongs for armor. Unless of course you make fun of the thong armor--that's certainly fair game!
> 
> She stuns the enemy for 10s with Cleavage Peek. While he's in a drooling stupor, she separates his head from his body with Swirling Katana Strike.


My raid team has a large number of women too! My guild's GM and co-raid leader is a woman as well. (How are you guys doing with Antorus so far?)



RScott said:


> There's a lot of wish/fantasy fulfillment involved and I think the majority of readers feel more comfortable/can relate to it, when it's their own gender that's in play.
> 
> That said, there might be a niche for female LitRPG fans who are starving for a gender role "they" can relate with, because I can't think of any with a female protagonist.


That's my main concern--a lot of the more popular LitRPG series rely heavily on wish fulfillment. I wonder if this is a case where women haven't (largely) discovered the genre yet.



Natkot said:


> I would highly recommend checking out The Wandering Inn. It's one of the few litRPGs with female protagonist(s) and, in my opinion, one of the crowning exemplars of litRPG. I don't believe it's been verified but I suspect the author is female. With the way the author writes and from reading the readers' comments, it's strangely enough appealing to readers of any gender. I think there's a woeful shortage of litRPGs that are just good stories - sometimes I've felt the game aspect distracts authors from storytelling.


Thank you! I'll check that out.

And thanks, everyone, for your comments. I'm going to give it a shot. The worst that happens is I have fun writing a story that very few people read. It wouldn't be the first time.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Alix Adale said:


> But this is not new. In the 80s Stephen King and others wrote about a bunch of people trapped in a weird situation. Or are we talking about non-modern people? Then every fantasy ever, particularly TSR Fantasy books written in the 1980s, Dragonlance before and after, had this take. I don't see how anything called "LitRPG" isn't either already fantasy literature or some other shade of sci-fi or fantasy. I feel like this genre is trying to foist something new on us, when fantasy already exists and in specific, commercial fanfic.


Dragonlance is written about people in a real to them fantasy world. They don't know anything about rules like you have to memorize spells each morning, it's just the way their world works. Raistlin was born weak, and had no idea he had a constitution of 3 on some sheet of paper when he was rolled up as a character. He remembers being sickly as a child, remembers how Caramon was always the loved one and feels jealous about that. Remembers the choices he made to obtain magic so he could feel powerful and have something few others had. To him it was all real.

If I was to write a LitRPG world set in the Dragonlance world, I would pick a character, Raistlin because he rocks!, and I would be inserted into a virtual gaming world. I know it's a game and that Raist is my gaming avatar and I'd probably play him as neutral alignment too since I hate bowing to deities. I know I'll get X number of spells each time I level up and I'll be gunning for Fireball because Fireball is awesome. The story would be very different because it would focus on my ambition to level up by slaying monsters and finding scrolls to learn new magic spells in treasure troves. I would get excited when I level up (which is not a concept in the first scenario) and I would spend experience points (also not a thing in the first scenario). And at the end of the day, I know I'll win the game, and go home to my real world. Raist in the above scenario didn't have such a happy ending. I hope that helps clarify the difference.



Elizabeth S. said:


> My raid team has a large number of women too! My guild's GM and co-raid leader is a woman as well. (How are you guys doing with Antorus so far?)


I'm the GM (fire mage if you couldn't guess from my Fireball comment!) and the raid leader is a woman (hunter) too. She does mythic level raiding on another char so she can bring good strategies to our team. We have a DH woman, druid healer woman, two women hunters that are mother and daughter, plus a few others who come when they can. We downed the first boss in heroic since he's a loot pinata, and got to Kin'garoth (7th boss) in normal tonight. We downed him last week but he's a bit ragged for us still. I'm sure we'll down him and move on tomorrow night. We might also do heroic dogs too. We'll see


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

C. Gold explained it better than I could.  I'd like to add that there is a major difference in the writing itself: LitRPG tends to come with elaborate character sheets for hitpoints, levels etc, and keeps detailed track of stat progression throughout the story. The MC gets stabbed by a goblin and loses _exactly five_ hit points. Standard Fantasy doesn't track hit points.

I'd recommend reading some LitRPG to understand how it works.


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## Gentleman Zombie (May 30, 2011)

It's not that anyone is trying to 'dump something new' on anyone. LitRPG has a long history that can be traced back to Steven Barnes & Larry Niven's 'Dream Park' stories or 'Quag's Keep' by Andre Norton. There's a few LitRPG tropes and it can get complicated. LitRPG has many influences including anime, literature, and video games. A few off the cuff scenarios w/anime examples to illustrate: 

- The MC is from 'the real world' and is transported into the game world. (Ex. Sword Art Online)
- The MC lives in world ruled by game-like mechanics, and it's the only world they've ever known. (Ex. "Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?") 
- The Game World materializes into our world. The MC suddenly has to adapt to this new reality. (Ex. "Hunter x Hunter")

A few people even compare a movie like the Jumanji remake to LitRPG because the characters have stats and progress in level during the course of the story.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

This thread has possessed me. I can't stop thinking about a possible future LitRPG novel.  

Question: Can anyone recommend a great, well-written book / series in the genre where PvP combat is an important factor? I'd like to do some research. Thanks!

Edit to add: also, is character creation usually covered as part of the plot or do readers prefer to jump right into the action and exploration?


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## Nope (Jun 25, 2012)

.


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## German_Translator (Jul 26, 2015)

> Do You Wanna Date My Avatar - Felicia Day


"The Guild" - now I feel the irresistible desire to watch all those episodes again ... a -5 HP curse on you!


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## John Dixon (Dec 15, 2016)

RScott said:


> You took down the first few chapters and left the rest up?


Any new thoughts / experiences / advice on the RRL / KU conundrum?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> I can't get my head around what makes LitRPG work and what readers are looking for.


I recently started reading LitRPG and have tried about 14 series (depending on your definition of LitRPG  ) so far. I can't speak for any other readers, but these are the two things that I think I like most about the genre:

- Kick butt protagonists who do kick butt things

Look, I enjoy a lot of modern fiction where every protagonist is balanced and has flaws and struggles and all that. Sometimes, though, I just want to read about hyper-competent people doing stuff that other people can't do.

- Leveling Up

When I play video games (rarely) or D&D (back in the day), I love the progression of my character from complete noob who can't manage to kill a pair of Level 1 rats to a complete ninja who can take on a horde of mobs by himself. There's just something primal about the clear advancement from one level to the next, and LitRPG spells it out overtly, letting you experience it better than any other genre.


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## Diamond Eyes (Feb 11, 2017)

C. Rysalis said:


> Edit to add: also, is character creation usually covered as part of the plot or do readers prefer to jump right into the action and exploration?


Some LitRPGs have a big character creation chapter near the beginning of the book. All classes, races, starting skills, stats, and point allocation might be explained in detail for pages and pages. Other books just give character creation a few lines and move on. I prefer the books that show more details about character building, detailed item and skill information and stats. The progression of the main character, getting new gear/skills, and how the characters interact within the rules of the game are important parts of being a LitRPG. I've read a bunch of books that seem to be just a fantasy story with DING! LEVEL UP! slapped in here and there once in a while with no real game mechanics and then claim it to be LitRPG, but to me those books are not really LitRPG.


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## RBradyFrost (Mar 20, 2015)

C. Gold said:


> Yep, that's exactly what I meant  ... ... I'm prescient!
> (Actually, that Jumanji trailer scrambled any coherent thoughts of what the Player One movie was called, lol!)


The sequel is in the works. Word on the street is that it will be called Ready Player Two. I checked out the audiobook of Ready Player One from the library. It was pretty good.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

German_Translator said:


> "The Guild" - now I feel the irresistible desire to watch all those episodes again ... a -5 HP curse on you!


-10 curse on all ya'll for making me wanna listen to the song... again... !! in addition to the episodes!


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## tired1680 (Sep 24, 2017)

On Royal Road discussion. Both of my series were first written and posted on Royal Road. I then took down all but the first few chapters for book 1 of one series and left the entire book up for the other.

No real complaints about either. Revenue wise, you are MUCH better off doing Kindle Unlimited so taking them off RRL is important. Here's how I went about taking mine off:
- Posted that the series would be taken off a few chapters away from the end and kept that note up for all on-going chapters.
- Edited description to note that the book would be taken off for Amazon KU in a few weeks once editing for the finished book was done.
- Edited and added above note to chapters 1- 3
- Once I was ready to post, I deleted the other chapters before going to KU. Waited a few days, then went and posted the book on Amazon
- Added the necessary links to the chapters and description so people can buy

It's worth noting that once you stop posting for a week or two, you drop off the 'hot' chart on RRL so you aren't getting that many new readers. So long as you leave the finished (and I do think you should finish the story off) for the readers, they are understanding that you need to eat 

I stopped posting on RRL since I found the need to write and not bounce around chapters a bit stiffling, but I do enjoy the community.

*On Women / Gaming and audiences *
There is a market I'm sure for women protagonists. It likely is going to be smaller than a pure heterosexual male protagonist. On the other hand, the readers are voracious so I wouldn't worry too much about it if you have a good story.

There is a significant bias towards straight males with harem fantasies who are OP. My best selling series constantly gets bad reviews because the character is bisexual and has interest in a male character. You're less likely to get into trouble for that (after all, a female protagonist is pretty clear start), but you might get bad reviews for pushing a 'liberal' or 'feminist' agenda depending on your writing. Again, it's a minority but it happens.

That being said, don't let is discourage you. Like I said, the community is voracious in their reading so a good book will get read.

Hmmm... that's about it. Happy to answer / chime in on the conversation if anyone else has any other questions.


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## RScott (Nov 8, 2017)

tired1680 said:


> No real complaints about either. Revenue wise, you are MUCH better off doing Kindle Unlimited so taking them off RRL is important.


After having now done it myself I can ditto this. I earn about 3 to 4 times more in KU than direct sales. And in total I think I got 1 or 2 gripes from my RRL followers.


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## C. Rysalis (Feb 26, 2015)

KennySkylin said:


> Some LitRPGs have a big character creation chapter near the beginning of the book. All classes, races, starting skills, stats, and point allocation might be explained in detail for pages and pages. Other books just give character creation a few lines and move on. I prefer the books that show more details about character building, detailed item and skill information and stats. The progression of the main character, getting new gear/skills, and how the characters interact within the rules of the game are important parts of being a LitRPG. I've read a bunch of books that seem to be just a fantasy story with DING! LEVEL UP! slapped in here and there once in a while with no real game mechanics and then claim it to be LitRPG, but to me those books are not really LitRPG.


Thanks, that's really helpful! 

Since no one has mentioned examples of LitRPG with PvP combat... am I right to assume this hasn't really been done before?


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## eleutheria (Mar 25, 2014)

C. Rysalis said:


> Thanks, that's really helpful!
> 
> Since no one has mentioned examples of LitRPG with PvP combat... am I right to assume this hasn't really been done before?


Bushido Online has a lot of open world PVP, and other books do as well.


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## tired1680 (Sep 24, 2017)

C. Rysalis said:


> Thanks, that's really helpful!
> 
> Since no one has mentioned examples of LitRPG with PvP combat... am I right to assume this hasn't really been done before?


Sorry, forgot about this. There's been a few. Harmon Cooper I think wrote a series I believe. Couldn't get into it myself, but the main MC is PvP based. I know the Graystone Chronicles has a bunch of it too.

It's worth noting as well that there's a bunch of books that do LitRPG via portal fantasy and/or fantasy worlds that are LitRPG based (like Konosuba, Is it Wrong, etc...). So in those cases, PvP becomes more difficult to define.


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## John Dixon (Dec 15, 2016)

tired1680 said:


> On Royal Road discussion. Both of my series were first written and posted on Royal Road. I then took down all but the first few chapters for book 1 of one series and left the entire book up for the other.
> 
> No real complaints about either. Revenue wise, you are MUCH better off doing Kindle Unlimited so taking them off RRL is important. Here's how I went about taking mine off:
> - Posted that the series would be taken off a few chapters away from the end and kept that note up for all on-going chapters.
> ...


Thanks so much for posting this, Tao. It was super helpful.

I've been meaning to check out your books. Now I'll definitely get to them soon. Thanks!


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## John Dixon (Dec 15, 2016)

RScott said:


> After having now done it myself I can ditto this. I earn about 3 to 4 times more in KU than direct sales. And in total I think I got 1 or 2 gripes from my RRL followers.


Thanks for weighing in, Rick. You were the one who originally got me wondering about how all of this would work out. Thanks for the update!


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Nerds unite. I like this thread.


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## solo (Dec 19, 2017)

I did start one. But preparing all those tables and figures wore me out after 50 pages.


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## DCRWrites (Jan 20, 2014)

Interesting, as a big fan of tabletop RPGs I was interested at first but I just can't bring myself to develop the same excitement for video game RPGs.

I do think the genre sounds fascinating, but I'll leave it to those who enjoy it.


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## kenbritz (Oct 24, 2016)

While most would classify RPO as litRPG, it's less that and more of a love letter to the 80's, which has main stream appeal to my generation as well as the casual reader. Armada, by comparison, was more of the love letter, but lost a lot of that mainstream appeal and (I think) most of the litRPG market.


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