# Sex... How far do you go?



## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

Foreplay, afterplay, that's fun to write. But the bit in the middle, THE scene, that's the difficult part.

I usually don't write sex scenes, my characters do it, of course but we're not invited to witness the act. It's difficult (I will not use the word 'hard' here for obvious reasons) to write a credible, sex scene that would be to everyone's taste.

I have found few books where it's well written.


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

Depends. What if you're writing a pop-up book?

You could have someone's eye out.


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## ajbarnett (Apr 11, 2011)

I get round it by being as explicit as I think necessary for the scene, but not using 'vulgar' words.


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## David Adams (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm a big fan of the pre-post fade to black. The imagination is stronger, after all.

That is, unless the way the actual sex actually goes down _matters_ to the plot. For example, in something like Boys Don't Cry, you pretty much had to be explicit.


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

If you do decide to go all the way, be careful you don't end up winning this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/nov/22/bad-sex-awards-the-contenders



> "She said, "Don't make me wait, I've had enough of that," and so I kissed the sweaty hollow of her temple and moved my hips forward ... She gasped, retreated a little, then raised her hips to meet me. "Sadie? All right?"
> 
> "Ohmygodyes," she said and I laughed. She opened her eyes and looked up at me with curiosity and hopefulness. "Is it over, or is there more?"
> 
> ...


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

Sort of depends on the genre, doesn't it? I don't think readers would appreciate it if my erotic romances didn't go all the way. Explicit sex is sort of a prerequisite of the genre.  That doesn't mean my sex scenes are "to everyone's taste"-- I've gotten reviews complaining they're too explicit, and that they're not explicit enough. There's no possible way of pleasing every reader.

With regards to my regular romances, I generally have my characters go all the way, but don't use the very bluntest words. But it really depends on the characters and the situation.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

It depends on the story and the intended audience. I think that the more graphic detail is best left to the erotic genre, but that is just me.

In Survival Instinct, I think I go slightly over the top in my first chapter with maybe one sentence, but I don't want to leave the impression with the reader that a serial killer who rapes, is anything other than a scumbag and that for the victim, the experience is horrific. It was a challenge to write from the killer's POV. I could probably sell more if I chopped that first chapter, or changed it to the victim's POV, or if I used the cliche for the genre and had the police turn up after the event, but then I would lose the whole depth to the story and the intended theme for the reader to consider.

For the rest of the story my divorced MC and his friend go on a search for new partners on the singles scene. Two women drug and date rape my shy MC in one scene, but I don't go into any detail, rather I bring out the humor of the situation in the aftermath, but then have my MC consider how he feels about what happens on a serious note, in relation to how a woman would feel. For the rest of the story, I think the fun side of it is that I allow him to come close to having sex, but always stop him short of actually getting there.

In the latest book I am working on, I have one sex scene, but I don't go into any graphic detail, rather than I allude to what is taking place. I think the reader has the imagination to fill in the blanks. I prefer authors in this instance on the subject to *tell* they 'Made love' rather than *show* them.'having sex'


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## Adam Pepper (May 28, 2011)

I've written raunchy and explicit scenes, and I've written subtle, understated ones.  The fade to black can work, I suppose but you also risk leaving the reader feeling cheated (Sopranos finale anyone?).  I think the main thing is to commit to your vision and go for it.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Since many of my books have gays themes and all have some gay characters - and since my work is not aimed at a GBLT reader, but just "a reader," I need to respect the comfort zone of all my readers when it comes to the M on M explicit sex scene. Therefore, although I shy not from nudity, cuss words, foreplay and the aftermath, I always go into, what we authors call, _*the quadrangle zone*_. Now don't get me wrong, I'm by no means a prude, but I haven't seen a need in my stories to find explicit sex a driver. Love, physical attraction and passion - YES. But the mechanics are best left to the erotic genre or my internet account(s).

Edward C. Patterson
Reaspect Your Readers, who Rock


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## WilliamEsmont (May 3, 2010)

I tend to focus more on the tension between my characters in my espionage thrillers, leaving any physical bits to be imagined by the reader. In my post-apocalyptic zombie stuff, however, I don't hold back. The protagonist in the first book starts out as a prostitute and the book opens with a mildly graphic scene. Reader reaction has been mixed, which I take as a good thing since it means people are thinking about it.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> I always go into, what we authors call, _*the quadrangle zone*_.
> Edward C. Patterson
> Reaspect Your Readers, who Rock


Okay, extensive Googling got me nowhere with the quadrangle zone. Spill it. Explicitly.


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## Elizabeth Ann West (Jul 11, 2011)

As a non-erotica writer, I also err on the side of only including what's unique or necessary to the story. When we write about someone making a trip to the store, we don't go through a character getting her keys, sitting down on the seat, buckling her seat belt, adjusting her mirrors, pulling out of the driveway... unless a huge Mack truck smacks into her at the end of that driveway. It's just Joanie goes to the store and we caatch up with her once she's there.

Familiar actions are always shortened because the reader's mind with automagically fill in many of the mundane details. Sex to me is similar. That middle part is the every day drive to the store, UNLESS there is something like a MACK truck coming. Once of my favorite scenes is the heroine pinching the hero's butt and racing up the stairs ahead of him. That's the fade to black, and I think when a reader reads it, it puts a smile on his or her face. 

Sex should enhance the story. And that goes for erotica too. A plot that doesn't support the sex pulls me right out of it. A romance with sex that overshadows the plot is a similar situation. When readers sit down to read a certain genre, they have expectations. Can't please everyone, of course, but I try to please the largest chunk of my intended audience that I can.


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

TexasGirl said:


> Okay, extensive Googling got me nowhere with the quadrangle zone. Spill it. Explicitly.


I think that's where the g-spot is kept?

Any doctors here want to back me up on this?


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

A funny aside: I do have 2 sex scenes in the course of my books - not very explicit, but no quadragling. They are both heterosexual sex scenes and I needed to do research to get them correct.   Nothing empiracal, mind you. I'm a pure Kinsey 6 and shall remain so. However, I needed beta readers to let me known wether I got it right. They said I did.

Ed Patterson


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Up until my most recent work I had never written an explicit sex scene.  Never really felt comfortable throwing one in, and in my past works such a scene never would have advanced the plot anyway (or should I say that the occasion never arose before?  sorry, couldn't resist).  But in The Globe I wrote an excruciatingly detailed rape scene that was pivotal to the resolution of the novel.

Of course it wasn't your typical rape scene—the male protagonist is the victim in this instance.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

I used to avoid sex scenes, on the time-honored basis of write-what-you-know.

Then I realized I'm supposed to be a writer, and _used my imagination_.

Apparently, my reviewers tell me, manly Jason Bourne-ish action heroes are neither supposed to beg, nor say "Thank you". *Who knew?*

So now I'm back to write-what-you-know, in which sex happens a bit like the rising (ahem!) of the sun: you can infer it happened, but the physics and the math are entirely omitted, so as to interfere as little as possible with the, erm, thrust of the narrative.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

TexasGirl said:


> Okay, extensive Googling got me nowhere with the quadrangle zone. Spill it. Explicitly.


The quadrangle space is that area that authors use to shunt an explicit sex scene. Your readers get to the threshold and then POP, next act. 

from my recent work


Spoiler



*A Reader's Guide to Author's Jargon and Other Ravings from the Blogosphere*


:

_*Quadrangle space*_
The point in a novel where an explicit sex scene would fall, but the author elects to gloss over it and move on to the other events, perhaps a cut to post-act cigarette smoke. Sometimes suggestive euphemisms and images are inserted to penetrate the rising curiosity of an explosive nature, such as a boat in motion or a locomotive screeching through a tunnel. At one time looked upon as a doff to obscenity laws, now it is a literary convention applied at an author's discretion.

Edward C. Patterson


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> The quadrangle space is that area that authors use to shunt an explicit sex scene.


Oh, is that where they all go? I bet it _stinks_ in there.


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

Elizabeth Ann West said:


> As a non-erotica writer, I also err on the side of only including what's unique or necessary to the story. When we write about someone making a trip to the store, we don't go through a character getting her keys, sitting down on the seat, buckling her seat belt, adjusting her mirrors, pulling out of the driveway... unless a huge Mack truck smacks into her at the end of that driveway. It's just Joanie goes to the store and we caatch up with her once she's there.
> 
> Familiar actions are always shortened because the reader's mind with automagically fill in many of the mundane details. Sex to me is similar. That middle part is the every day drive to the store, UNLESS there is something like a MACK truck coming. Once of my favorite scenes is the heroine pinching the hero's butt and racing up the stairs ahead of him. That's the fade to black, and I think when a reader reads it, it puts a smile on his or her face.
> 
> Sex should enhance the story. And that goes for erotica too. A plot that doesn't support the sex pulls me right out of it. A romance with sex that overshadows the plot is a similar situation. When readers sit down to read a certain genre, they have expectations. Can't please everyone, of course, but I try to please the largest chunk of my intended audience that I can.


Excellent! I agree with all of that.

I also think you can write very sexy scenes without the actual intercourse taking place, which we all understand will happen later. It can be the way the protagonists interact, by flirting, touching or even in dialogue. This what I try to do in all my romantic comedies and also in my contemporary novels. Very much in my two historical novels too. (the detective story is a little more explicit but that was my co-writer's fault  )


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Millard said:


> Oh, is that where they all go? I bet it _stinks_ in there.


Like many literary terms, it comes from the silent movie days, much like the expression "hang a lantern on it," and "kill your darlings."

ECP


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## mrv01d (Apr 4, 2011)

I've decided I like writing sex and as a result am always looking to improve, to remove the slot a into slot b element and instead provide an emotional and erotic reader experience. If you want to read well done sex, I would recommend the book Fifty Shades--forget the plot and the kind of sex, look at how she wrote the sex. Very well done.

I think I achieved that in my short story Banshee's Tattoo.

M


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## J Dean (Feb 9, 2009)

I don't write explicit sex.  If sex plays any part in my work, it's only alluded to, and my short story "Nick" is the only story I have that does this.  There is another story I have in which the anti-protagonist (you'd have to read it to understand) is involved in an affair, but the idea was conveyed just fine without sex scenes.

Perhaps it's because of my Christianity, but I can't say that I really see a need for a sex scene as an integral part of a plot.  I much prefer, as Ed calls it, the "quadrangle," simply because it deals with the matter in a way that gives the idea without having to slag out the minutae.


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## Courtney Milan (Feb 27, 2011)

I write sex. I write explicit sex. I even sometimes use explicit words to describe that sex, although I'm never as explicit as erotica. It's (a) a part of the genre and (b) always an important part of the story.

Yes, I could fade to black. I could also fade to black on fight scenes. It would not be nearly so effective.

I'm fine with people talking about their own comfort zones--but please, don't tell me that sex scenes are by their nature gratuitous, and that they are scenes much like brushing your teeth, and can be deleted. Sex scenes are like any other action scene: If they aren't intimately connected with the story, and if they don't move the story forward, they're eye-rolling, but just because some people write eye-rolling scenes doesn't mean that they're all eye-rolling. Sex is the most intimate, vulnerable act that you can have between two people, and I don't think I could write a romance that faded to black and that was as emotionally effective as the books that I write. Now, someone else surely could. But I couldn't.

If you're writing sex that overshadows the plot, you're doing it wrong. If you're writing an action book where the action scenes overshadow the plot, you're doing it wrong. If you're writing a western where the round ups overshadow the plot, you're doing it wrong. Any kind of scene can overshadow the plot. But by the same token, every kind of scene can push the plot forward, heighten conflict between the characters, and complicate their lives.

Saying, "I don't see why anyone ever has to write a sex scene" is the same thing as saying, "I don't see why anyone ever has to write an action scene. It's just a whole lot of gratuitous violence, and Weapon A blocks Weapon B kind of stuff. Better to show the build up, and then fade to black and show them picking over a battlefield at the end, and let the reader intuit that there was just a fight."


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

Both of my books have explicit sex in them.  They are books written from a male POV.  He is eighteen when the first story gets underway (after the prologue).  He is a peasant, so his language is not gentile.  It is graphic.  He has been physically and mentally abused growing up, so he is looking for power.  He has been powerless his whole life.  Therefore, he equates sex with power.  He also finds it difficult to feel anything unless it is intense.  Writing anything less than graphic sex scenes with a character like this just would not work.  

One of his dreams is to become great at sex.  Since it is the nineteenth century, 99.9% of men think women should not and do not enjoy sex. He heard his mother misused many times growing up. Sensing that is not right, he makes sure to learn everything a woman could possibly want.  There are women that want raw sex, rough sex.  Some want gentle sex.  He becomes very good at reading what a woman's actions say and at doing both and anything in between. It is a way that he can feel something and he confuses it with being loved.  He is getting physical attention that results in feeling good for a brief moment.  Since he never felt anything good before, it is a wonderful relief from being beaten.

That said, my books are not erotica, although the sex is graphic.  So is the sex in most bestsellers I find in bookstores that have sex in them.  There is a story in them, and in mine, that is bigger than the sex.

Someday down the road I may write stories where the characters are not as graphic.  Then my style will change.  I think you need to be as explicit as the characters and the story calls for.


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## Darin_Calhoun (Jul 26, 2011)

As a romance writer, I focus on the sensations and emotions. I try not to use medical terms, vulgar language, or cliche simile and metaphors.


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## Now left (Feb 3, 2012)

Fairly graphic scenes are unavoidable if you're writing somewhere on the steamy/erotic romance/erotica spectrum. Obviously if you're writing a cozy mystery type book, you'll want to tone it down. Don't want to give Granny a heart attack!


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

Both of my full length novels have a fair amount of sex in them and, as others have said, I mostly focus on the experiences of the people involved instead of the mechanics. However there is one scene in Each Angel Burns that is very explicit. I felt it absolutely had to be that way because it was important to understand how sexually sophisticated the woman was, despite her background, and how painfully naive the man was, despite having been married and the father of three.

That scene has gotten me a lot of flack from Christians and a lot of breathless emails from people who LOVED it!


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

It depends entirely on the story. I used to say I'd never fade to black on a sex scene, but my current wip I don't think would work with actual sex on the page. The story is not really a romance, so when I tried to write the sex it felt like it didn't quite belong.


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## Decon (Feb 16, 2011)

The quadrangle space is that area that authors use to shunt an explicit sex scene. Your readers get to the threshold and then POP, next act.

In my case I bottled out as they got to the threshold and had my MC fart. Caused a bit of a stink on the writers site where I had it reviewed, but it saved me from having to fade to black and I could add some comedy in the aftermath, rather than it ending abruptly.

I thought it was quite a Billy Connoly moment as it is one of those things that can happen, but no one likes to talk about.


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## Seanathin23 (Jul 24, 2011)

I get things started maybe spend a little time there then fade to black.  I have nothing against explicitness as long as it fits the book, I just feel silly writing them, coming up with euphemisms for the um...ya that haven't been done to death.


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

Seanathin23 said:


> I get things started maybe spend a little time there then fade to black. I have nothing against explicitness as long as it fits the book, I just feel silly writing them, coming up with euphemisms for the um...ya that haven't been done to death.


Oh, I don't go in for the crazy euphemisms, and I don't get medical. Though I don't mind reading either I also feel strange writing them. My scenes are generally referred to as "classy" by readers, though I'm not sure I agree with that word choice. I think sensual is a better description.


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## TexasGirl (Dec 21, 2011)

Edward C. Patterson said:


> The quadrangle space is that area that authors use to shunt an explicit sex scene. Your readers get to the threshold and then POP, next act.


Interesting. I didn't know it had a name, although I must be seriously daft, as I dno't quite get the relationship to the word quadrangle...

But to answer the OP question: I have done all the variants depending on the work. I have fades to blacks, apparently I have quadrangle spaces, and I have full-blown acts. Depends on the book. Nowhere, however, do I have throbbing manhood. I confess that I will simply say, "She wrapped her fingers around him" than to give an explicit word. Language is tricky tricky.


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## 41419 (Apr 4, 2011)

I think it depends. My two shorts have nothing adult, bar minor references to drugs and alcohol. My self-publishing how-to has no sex at all (but probably could have done with it). And my last release was historical fiction, which often (but not always) fades to black before things get too raunchy (I'm talking about "straight" historical fiction rather than the saucier end of historical romance etc.). However, my novel was also set in South America, a very sexy continent with a very sexy literary heritage (Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Joan Pedro Gutierrez etc.).

I'm very much trying to write in a style akin to my literary heroes, and felt that sex is a part of life and I couldn't in all good conscience exclusively fade to black when one of my main characters is a refugee who becomes a prostitute. On the other hand, I didn't want to fill my book with sex (for a variety of reasons), so there is only one explicit scene, but numerous references to sex and plenty of romantic entanglements and bawdy asides.

I think I struck the right balance, but I suppose the readers will ultimately decide that. My editor wanted me to chop a paragraph from the sex scene, and fade to black after the foreplay. I don't usually overrule my editor, but I decided to on this occasion. No negative feedback so far.

I approached the scene itself very carefully. My research largely consisted of reading lots of the winners and nominees for the Bad Sex Award over the years and looking for what to avoid. Two things stood out:

1. An older male novelist writing about an older male character having sex with a nubile young thing can often come across as creepy wish fulfillment (not necessarily my judgment, but that of the judges and larger reading public).

2. Never ever (ever) use a metaphor or medical term for a body part (or sexual action).*


Aside from that, I felt the best thing to do was to keep it natural. Also, I went to the pub and had a couple of beers, then wrote the scene there. It seemed fitting. I brought it home and gave it to my girlfriend to read.

Her comment? "It kind of grabs you by the throat, doesn't it?"

Mission accomplished!



*People may differ here. I'm not offering up a prescriptive rule - just personal preference.


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## Atunah (Nov 20, 2008)

Courtney Milan said:


> I write sex. I write explicit sex. I even sometimes use explicit words to describe that sex, although I'm never as explicit as erotica. It's (a) a part of the genre and (b) always an important part of the story.
> 
> Yes, I could fade to black. I could also fade to black on fight scenes. It would not be nearly so effective.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying it so much better than I could. Well I would be speaking from a reader only of course. 
I continue to be baffled at how often this question about sex in novels comes up. Seems like especially lately there have been a few threads on it. 
I have never seen a thread about fading fight scenes to black, or any other as you said it action scenes. Again, my mind baffles, or boggles. 
Heck in the book corner we even been told that the only reason people have to write sex scenes and read them is because they don't get any 
Again, I never see these issues brought up with any other scenes in books.

I have read bad sex and good and great sex in books. Just like I have read bad/good/great fighting scenes, chases etc in books. As a reader I can tell if an author has skill at writing them. If you don't feel comfortable, don't do it, because I can tell and I cringe.

I tend to get confused when there is need to have fade to black with sex scenes, but not with violence and brutality.

Not saying either shouldn't exist, of course there are people of all tastes out there, its this disdain I sense a lot of times for sex scenes.


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## Coral Moore (Nov 29, 2009)

Atunah said:


> Thank you for saying it so much better than I could. Well I would be speaking from a reader only of course.
> I continue to be baffled at how often this question about sex in novels comes up. Seems like especially lately there have been a few threads on it.
> I have never seen a thread about fading fight scenes to black, or any other as you said it action scenes. Again, my mind baffles, or boggles.
> Heck in the book corner we even been told that the only reason people have to write sex scenes and read them is because they don't get any
> ...


Thanks for bringing this up! I don't understand the belief that sex needs to be hidden away or it risks being gratuitous either. I think if you're going to show the violent side of human nature you need to bring in the emotional side as well, with equal detail. In the WIP I brought up where I'm using fade to black there is also no significant violence, and I do think that makes a difference.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

The last time a thread about this appeared I posted to make another point which is that not all sex in books is lovely romantic sex. Everything -- sex, violence, etc. -- has to serve the story but there are many times when sex in a book is something other than romance and sometimes it has to be pretty explicit to serve the purpose of moving the story forward. I'm working on a story right now in which a character discovers a man molesting a boy and subsequently kills him. I have to be fairly explicit in order to show the MC (it is written in 1st person) being at first confused and unsure of what is going on and then, when he understands, losing control and being driven into a rage.

You have to know what purpose the sex serves within the story.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

TexasGirl said:


> Interesting. I didn't know it had a name, although I must be seriously daft, as I dno't quite get the relationship to the word quadrangle...
> 
> But to answer the OP question: I have done all the variants depending on the work. I have fades to blacks, apparently I have quadrangle spaces, and I have full-blown acts. Depends on the book. Nowhere, however, do I have throbbing manhood. I confess that I will simply say, "She wrapped her fingers around him" than to give an explicit word. Language is tricky tricky.


The Quadrangle space refers to a Cloister, a secret place, much like a closet.

ECP


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## KirbyTails (Jan 4, 2012)

I used to detail entire sex scenes because nobody else did. I felt cool, rebellious even.

Then I realized that there's probably a reason nobody ever writes full-on, descriptive sex scenes. 

So, I'll get to the beginning, I may do a little detail. But overall, I don't go much farther than maybe to the point of getting off the person's underwear. Usually, I just stop at something like, "And then they kissed."


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> Then I realized that there's probably a reason nobody ever writes full-on, descriptive sex scenes.


Huh? You are reading completely different fiction books than I am, then. And I don't mean erotica, although I do at times read it.


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## MegHarris (Mar 4, 2010)

> I used to detail entire sex scenes because nobody else did. I felt cool, rebellious even.
> 
> Then I realized that there's probably a reason nobody ever writes full-on, descriptive sex scenes.


Plenty of people write sex scenes. In romance, "full-on, descriptive sex scenes" are the norm. Nothing cool about it; it's just part of the story.

I'm with Courtney in that I'm fine with books either having sex scenes or not, but I don't care for the occasional feeling I get from this sort of thread that there's somehow something wrong with writing explicit sex scenes. Sex is part of life. Therefore it's a valid thing to explore in one's writing, if one chooses to do so. Nor is there necessarily something gratuitous about sex scenes-- and even if there is, so what? I like a little gratuitous sex, myself. 

In short, if you don't choose to write sex scenes, yay for you. I do choose to write sex scenes. Yay for me. May we all have fun and sell lots of books writing what we like to write!


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

EllenFisher said:


> Plenty of people write sex scenes. In romance, "full-on, descriptive sex scenes" are the norm. Nothing cool about it; it's just part of the story.
> 
> I'm with Courtney in that I'm fine with books either having sex scenes or not, but I don't care for the occasional feeling I get from this sort of thread that there's somehow something wrong with writing explicit sex scenes. Sex is part of life. Therefore it's a valid thing to explore in one's writing, if one chooses to do so. Nor is there necessarily something gratuitous about sex scenes-- and even if there is, so what? I like a little gratuitous sex, myself.
> 
> In short, if you don't choose to write sex scenes, yay for you. I do choose to write sex scenes. Yay for me. May we all have fun and sell lots of books writing what we like to write!


There is nothing wrong with writing explicit sex scenes, provided you do it well. If you do, I'm jealous. It's incredibly difficult to write.


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## Victorine (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't like reading sex scenes, so obviously I don't like writing them either. I enjoy writing about the kissing, the desires, the conflict, and the tension. So for me, I just don't go there. Whatever my characters do off stage is their own business.


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## Imogen Rose (Mar 22, 2010)

Decon said:


> The quadrangle space is that area that authors use to shunt an explicit sex scene. Your readers get to the threshold and then POP, next act.
> 
> In my case I bottled out as they got to the threshold and had my MC fart. Caused a bit of a stink on the writers site where I had it reviewed, but it saved me from having to fade to black and add I could add some comedy in the aftermath, rather than it ending abruptly.
> 
> I thought it was quite a Billy Connoly moment as it is one of those things that can happen, but no one likes to talk about.


Lol!


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I don't like reading sex scenes, so obviously I don't like writing them either. I enjoy writing about the kissing, the desires, the conflict, and the tension. So for me, I just don't go there. Whatever my characters do off stage is their own business.


Yes! Well said! That is exactly my opinion as well. Great minds think alike.


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## Ian Fraser (Mar 8, 2011)

I normally always avoid sex scenes as I find them tedious at best, and salacious at worst - that said, my psychological thriller 'No Man's Land' veered into hardcore sexual-violence territory, so I treated the sex scenes as they were, in all their lube-smeared, flesh-tearing glory. No soft gauze filters or euphemisms.

So how far do I go? As far as necessary for the narrative...Think David Cronenberg's film 'Dead Ringers' with his 'gynecological instruments for mutant women.'  If I'm going to write about sex, I'm not going to be making pseudo erotica, I'd rather have people's skin crawl with what's being described. That's way more interesting to me.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

I enjoy writing sex scenes - each still takes me a long time to write, compared to the rest of the story, but that's just due to trying to get it exactly right. I'm very plain with my descriptions - but without being medical (one character does default to naming things medically on a couple of occasions, but that's his personality, and his lack of experience). 

My fandom seems to like them, and I try to space them sparingly (there's none in book 1, the one in #2 will be removed due to the sub-plot going away, none in #3, a couple in #4, but quite a few in #5 - but that was more by coincidence than anything else - a few plot lines demanded sexytimes). 

>_>

<_<

I also received a message from one of my fans telling me that one of my scenes was good enough to get him laid. Twice. (Both he and his girlfriend read the series).


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## Christopher Bunn (Oct 26, 2010)

I don't write sex scenes in my books. My readers range in age from around 10 to 80 (so far). Also, I prefer to leave such things to the privacy of real life. Sex and birthing. They both seem way too intimate for public consumption. However, I'm curious about the perspective of those who do use sex in their writing. Do you ever get into the sort of messy, health issues of sex in scenes? My fastidiousness makes me somewhat reluctant to get specific here, but something along the lines of...

The Duke removed his satin breeches, etc.

"Goodness gracious," said Lady Frothingham faintly. "You, sir, appear to be severely afflicted with the human papillomavirus."

Er, that sort of thing.


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## wildwitchof (Sep 2, 2010)

George Berger said:


> I used to avoid sex scenes, on the time-honored basis of write-what-you-know.
> 
> Then I realized I'm supposed to be a writer, and _used my imagination_.
> 
> ...


LOL


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

Rin said:


> I enjoy writing sex scenes - each still takes me a long time to write, compared to the rest of the story, but that's just due to trying to get it exactly right. I'm very plain with my descriptions - but without being medical (one character does default to naming things medically on a couple of occasions, but that's his personality, and his lack of experience).
> 
> My fandom seems to like them, and I try to space them sparingly (there's none in book 1, the one in #2 will be removed due to the sub-plot going away, none in #3, a couple in #4, but quite a few in #5 - but that was more by coincidence than anything else - a few plot lines demanded sexytimes).
> 
> ...


And they are naming the baby after you?


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

Christopher Bunn said:


> Do you ever get into the sort of messy, health issues of sex in scenes?


It's been mentioned in passing in my series that there's a weird fae STI that causes guys to sprout little mushrooms on their ****.

And as to dealing with the health issues on a larger scale...

Fairies in my series are sort of sex-crazed (having sex several times a day isn't unusual, and many office buildings employ several "relief officers" to assist with this), they have a lot of systems in place to protect people. They have "Rose Rooms" which are fee-for-use rooms for quickies (and these can be found at bus stations, shopping centres, restaurants, etc) so that there's no need to do it in an alley or have to travel to a by-the-hour motel.

There's also a lot of casual/anonymous sex...and there's an app for that. If two fairies want/need to have sex, they can either approach someone, or set a flag on the Rose Room app to alert people in the area. The two (or more) people then sync their apps, which record their details (under usernames) so that if there's any issues afterwards (STIs, accidental pregnencies - which are more an issue for other fae or humans, since fairies reproduce externally), they can use the service to contact the other person and deal with it in a simple and efficient manner - most of the time, User A just gets a message saying User B has developed condition X, and the cost for treatment is $X, do you want to pay cash/credit? For more serious conditions, the app records assist with court cases, etc.


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## Rin (Apr 25, 2011)

Susanne OLeary said:


> And they are naming the baby after you?


Hehehehe, not so far as I know.


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

Rin said:


> It's been mentioned in passing in my series that there's a weird fae STI that causes guys to sprout little mushrooms on their...


Slightly bigger mushrooms?


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

jljarvis said:


> James Joyce would have loved it.


Oh great. Now I'm gonna spend the rest of the evening thinking about quick little merry cracks and a lot of tiny little naughty farties.


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## mbatt (Dec 2, 2011)

As a nonfiction nature/science writer, I take a different tack on sex that may or may not be suggestive to you fiction writers. I'm thinking maybe some of it might be useful for fantasy. I've written a great deal about animal mating behavior, from insects to whales.  The things that go on in the animal and plant kingdoms (yes, the blooming plants "do it" too) make human sex seem timid.  If anybody is interested in checking out the wild sex among other creatures, I've collected a dozen of my articles on this topic in my new e-book, "How To Have Sex If You're Not Human: Intimate Journeys in Natural History."


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

mbatt said:


> If anybody is interested in checking out the wild sex among other creatures, I've collected a dozen of my articles on this topic in my new e-book, "How To Have Sex If You're Not Human: Intimate Journeys in Natural History."


"Diagram of a whale penis, pages 131-thru-174"


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## Cheryl Douglas (Dec 7, 2011)

I've written very explicit and less explicit scenes, again depending on the genre. But I will admit, I do find it a challenge to write the very explicit scenes. I agonize over this three times longer than I would writing any other type of dialogue or description because I think many readers are super critical of these scenes.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

The biggest problem I have is with narrative voice and words for genitals. It seems there are only three ways to do it: crude, medical, or stupid euphemisms.

I hate all of these things, so I end up using the word body a lot. If I describe what's going around that, most people figure out what part of the body I mean.

I also learned this trick from reading Laurell K. Hamilton. (Yes, I kept reading them! I complained and complained about how they were all about sex, and they weren't nearly as good as they used to be, but I read all the way up until like the thirteenth or fourteenth book.)


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## CoraBuhlert (Aug 7, 2011)

It really depends on the story. If a story requires a sex scene, I write a sex scene and I write it as explicitly as necessary.

IMO sex is a normal part of life. It's a lot more normal for most of us than violence (and if violence is more normal for you than sex, then you have my sympathies), so of course it has its place in fiction. That said, I could do without the generic sex scenes that are found in some romance novels, the sort of scene where the author felt that a sex scene was necessary, but didn't actually want to write one, so the result reads as if it was copied and pasted from some "Writing sex scenes 101" book with the names changed.  Sex scenes should be as individual as the characters who do it. Besides, they reveal so much about the characters, if done well. For example, I love awkward sex scenes, because they're so individual. The scene (Was it Decon's?) where someone farts would be right up my alley.

As for the language, I use the words that the characters themselves would use, whether they're crude, proper terms or whether the characters can't say "it" at all. I hate silly or cutesy euphemisms. Does anybody actually refer to their penis as "manroot" or "rod of love" or to their vagina as "flower of their womanhood" or "veejayjay" or "hoo-ha" or whatever stupid euphemisms I have seen? Or my favourite, the "fist of feminity" (from an old Sandra Brown book)? I kind of doubt it. So why are we using such stupid euphemisms in our writing? Why not say it as it is?

As for safer sex, if the story is set after approx. 1985, characters use condoms. They also use birth control, unless there's a specific reason for them not to. Smart people practice safer sex and my characters generally are smart people. For historicals it's different, because birth control was often not widely available. And for SF and fantasy, it depends on the specifics of the setting. At any rate, I usually address the issue in some form.

Besides, safer sex can actually make a sex scene a lot more interesting. In a not yet published book, I wrote a sex scene involving a condom shaped like the head of Dumbo the elephant.


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## George Berger (Aug 7, 2011)

CoraBuhlert said:


> Does anybody actually refer to their penis as "manroot" or "rod of love" or to their vagina as "flower of their womanhood" or "veejayjay" or "hoo-ha" or whatever stupid euphemisms I have seen? Or my favourite, the "fist of feminity" (from an old Sandra Brown book)?


They may not refer to their _own_ anatomy that way, but people very much refer to others' vajayjays and so on by such terms, yes. I find it occasionally humorous, depending on the context. But I agree it's something that's very, very easy to do quite horribly...

_"Dearest comrade, tonight let us break the chains of inhibition and at long last enjoy what is rightfully ours, and ours alone."
"You have my attention."
"And yet I want more, so very much more. Must I be more plain-spoken? Must I be forward and forthright? Must I engage in coarse bluntness? Must I beg? Must I? Very well, then. Occupy my beaver den!"
"Okay. As you wish."
"Oh, farm boy, you say the most romantic things..."_


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## yomamma (Feb 10, 2011)

I write romance. There's a lot of graphic sex in my books. That's just how it is, I enjoy writing them, and I don't plan on changing.  Reading and writing that sort of thing is not for everyone, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it and there's nothing wrong with reading or writing it either. It's one of those "Your mileage may vary" things. Like mysteries. I am baffled by the appeal of mysteries. They all seem the same to me (probably because I don't read them). Doesn't make them bad, just not my thing. 


The euphemisms were common back in the earlier years of romance, when authors wanted to describe scenes but not be graphic about it. Pick up an old Jude Deveraux or Julie Garwood and there's a lot of kissing and then a paragraph of vaguely written deed-doing. This was also the time that bodices were ripped and heroes were alphaholes (as a friend of mine likes to say). 

But that isn't true of the genre nowdays. It's rare that you'll see euphemisms in a modern romance. I can't speak for other genres, though. Maybe the litfic crowd has picked up on purple headed warriors.


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## swcleveland (Jun 6, 2010)

FYI I'm only posting this so the number of replies won't be "69" anymore.


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

swcleveland said:


> FYI I'm only posting this so the number of replies won't be "69" anymore.


And what exactly do you have against 69


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

swcleveland said:


> FYI I'm only posting this so the number of replies won't be "69" anymore.


Puritan spotted.

Burn him! Burn him in a giant wicker phallus!


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## swcleveland (Jun 6, 2010)




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## jnfr (Mar 26, 2011)

mbatt said:


> If anybody is interested in checking out the wild sex among other creatures, I've collected a dozen of my articles on this topic in my new e-book, "How To Have Sex If You're Not Human: Intimate Journeys in Natural History."


Thanks for that! As a fantasy writer who does a lot of world-building, I'll definitely pick up a copy.


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## pamclaughton (Feb 21, 2011)

I think a lot of it has to do with reader expectation and being consistent. If you have a steamy cover and your book is romance, the reader may expect you to have more sex in your books and might get mad if you don't. I've seen reader comments to that effect. 

Personally, I usually skip the sex scenes to get back to the story....unless they're done extremely well and then I just get lost in the scene, but that's rare. I agree with others who say it's difficult to write a good sex scene. I think that's partly why I have a tendancy to skip them, as if they're not done well, with throbbing manhoods, etc. it kind of throws me out of the story and I want to get back to the good part...the story itself.

I don't think there's any right or wrong on this, just being clear so the audience knows what they're getting. There's plenty of people who love sex scenes, and many who don't.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

Someone up there said that they use the words the character would use.

This got me thinking, and I realized that I think one of the biggest blocks that I have about writing sex scenes is that I don't actually think words very much when I'm having sex. Maybe this is just me, and maybe this is TMI, but generally speaking, there aren't any words going through my head during that experience (unless, it's, you know, not a great one or I'm specifically trying to do some kind of dirty talk). It's one of the reasons it's so awesome, since, being a writer, I'm pretty much constantly barraged by words in my head. It NEVER shuts up. Something that completely wipes words out of my head is powerful and great and...yay. (See, I don't have words for it at _all_.)

Anyway, maybe some people are thinking words during sex. They're probably better at writing sex scenes than me.


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## R. Doug (Aug 14, 2010)

Millard said:


> Burn him! Burn him in a giant wicker phallus!


I'm afraid I'm going to have to take this one personally. Very, very personally.


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## Millard (Jun 13, 2011)

R. Doug said:


> I'm afraid I'm going to have to take this one personally. Very, very personally.


Hey, could be worse. At least I said 'giant'.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Millard said:


> Hey, could be worse. At least I said 'giant'.


Worse, hon. That's better. 

ECP


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## Courtney Milan (Feb 27, 2011)

Millard said:


> Puritan spotted.
> 
> Burn him! Burn him in a giant wicker phallus!


Per the rest of the thread, the correct terminology should be, "Burn him in a giant wicker shaft of throbbing manhood."

Thank you.


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## Kellyfisher319 (Dec 9, 2011)

I am happy someone brought this up. I have the hardest (no pun intended) time writing sex scenes. In my first novella I touched on it a bit and someone told me the sex was too quick...um...ok...I don't know about everyone else but sex does not last for hours...I branched out in the third novella of the series and wrote a whole chapter for only just the sex scene. Still I find myself really uncomfortable with the whole deal. Don't get me wrong I am no prude, (far from it) but maybe because I tend to take on the main characters persona when writing I feel a tad bit embarassed with sharing it with the rest of the world...guess I need to get over that eh?


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2012)

I refuse to talk about sex on a thread begun by Susanne.


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

MikeAngel said:


> I refuse to talk about sex on a thread begun by Susanne.


There is more to me than cookies and milk, you know.


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## Ash Stirling (Mar 2, 2011)

I knew that sex was going to be part of the stories I told, but wasn't sure how far.  Ended up I stopped just short of full on erotica - its talked about, teased and even has the start shown but it doesn't show completion.  Given the genre, its a little more acceptable but even so at times I feel like I may have gone a little far.  I may ease back on it a bit in future.


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## Richardcrasta (Jul 29, 2010)

Foreplay, afterplay, well I am all for it. Especially if the parts in the middle are well-tended to during foreplay.
nice post!


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## iluvsnoopy (Jan 1, 2012)

I love sex scenes.  I don't want to "imagine" it in my head.  I want to the author to show me how the characters related to each other in bed.  In fact, I read reviews to find out if there's sex scenes in the book, so if a 1-star review says, "Too explicit" or something about there being too much sex, I buy it.  Likewise, a 5-star "this book had such a sweet romance without any of that sex stuff", I don't buy it.  Sometimes a 1-star review can work for an author.


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## Zelah Meyer (Jun 15, 2011)

I don't usually re-read books with sex in them because it's something that, all too often, detracts from the plot. If it's in there but doesn't add to the story, it gets boring. Like showing the character doing their washing and not having any development happening - the fact they're having sex doesn't make it that much more interesting. There needs to be a reason for it to be there other than just to ramp up the heat level of the story. It doesn't matter how well it's written from a technical point of view, if it doesn't move the story on or develop the characters then it shouldn't be there.

Also, if it's just voyeristic or it's not done well, it can make the romance feel a little tainted. Imagine you hear that two people you like have paired off and you think "Aw, how sweet!" - you want to hear about that, about how they got together. You don't want to hear in great detail about what they do to each other in bed (well, I don't anyway!)

Giving praise to a fellow Kindleboarder, Ellen is an example of someone who I think does things right. I read 'In the Mood' and, the way the characters interact with each other in the sex scenes helps us learn more about them. We see their strong points, their weak points, how they feel about each other. The scenes had a reason to be there and so it worked for me, I'll be re-reading that one.

Contrast that with a free romance (that shall remain nameless) which I downloaded because the premise sounded quirky and interesting. I think it was supposed to be erotica and, the first part of the romance was fine, as was their first sexual encounter, not re-read fine but OK. After that though I was getting really bored & nearly stopped reading (only, a book has to be pretty bad for me to stop reading it once I'm that far through the story.) Oh look, they have sex again - and again, they argue, they make up, they have sex but it's not really any different emotionally, only the positions have changed. How much more of this is there? I was flicking through the sex scenes to get to the plot! It wasn't that the sex was badly written, it was that it didn't change anything, so I didn't care about it.

I prefer to write (and read) sweet romances, because I often think that what is left to the imagination is far sexier than what is spelt out. Percy Blakeney in the Scarlet Pimpernell - "_He was but a man madly, blindly, passionately in love, and as soon as her light footstep had died away within the house, he knelt down upon the terrace steps, and in the very madness of his love he kissed one by one the places where her small foot had trodden, and the stone balustrade there, where her tiny hand had rested last_." - Now, in the context of the story (where he's having to pretend he doesn't love her), the suppressed passion that shows is way, way hotter to me than any amount of graphically described sex. Personal taste varies though. 

That said, I would write a sex scene if it fit the story and belonged there. In fact, I have a bit of a dilemma when it comes to the series I'm working on. The hero gets seduced by the unmarried lady of noble birth he's courting. Since this is against the social expectations of her in the setting, this - and the way she does it (in fact, especially the way she does it!) - ought to set off a warning flag in his head. He's blinded by an infactuated love for her, makes excuses in his head for her behaviour and doesn't see the warning signs, though the reader might. The problem I have, is that the rest of the series will be a sweet romance when it comes to any relationships between the main characters. So, I currently have one BDSM style sex scene and then it's back to the bubbling, suppressed passions style that I prefer for the rest of it. Probably ending with a passionate kiss and/or a fade to black love scene. Yeah... Not _quite_ sure what to do about that! It's just as well that I'm not expecting to start publishing that series for another couple of years!


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## Caddy (Sep 13, 2011)

> I love sex scenes. I don't want to "imagine" it in my head. I want to the author to show me how the characters related to each other in bed. In fact, I read reviews to find out if there's sex scenes in the book, so if a 1-star review says, "Too explicit" or something about there being too much sex, I buy it. Likewise, a 5-star "this book had such a sweet romance without any of that sex stuff", I don't buy it. Sometimes a 1-star review can work for an author.


This is sure true. I got a 2 star on Goodreads. She said I had solid editing and that the story would have been really good IF there had not been so much explicit sex. Not her exact words, but she went on and on about how graphic, etc. It actually gave me more sales for a few days afterwards!


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## Sean Patrick Fox (Dec 3, 2011)

All the way!  

But in all seriousness, I think for the most part it's better to leave some things to the imagination, unless the sex is a crucial part of your story or genre.


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## Edward C. Patterson (Mar 28, 2009)

Sean Patrick Fox said:


> All the way!
> 
> But in all seriousness, I think for the most part it's better to leave some things to the imagination, unless the sex is a crucial part of your story or genre.


As we get older, sex is mostly left to our imaginations anyway.  But nothing that can't be dismissed out of hand.  

Edward C. Patterson


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## Kathleen Valentine (Dec 10, 2009)

iluvsnoopy said:


> I love sex scenes. I don't want to "imagine" it in my head. I want to the author to show me how the characters related to each other in bed. In fact, I read reviews to find out if there's sex scenes in the book, so if a 1-star review says, "Too explicit" or something about there being too much sex, I buy it. Likewise, a 5-star "this book had such a sweet romance without any of that sex stuff", I don't buy it. Sometimes a 1-star review can work for an author.


LOL! I LOVE readers like you!!! I got a review of _Each Angel Burns_ that said: "The sexual descriptiveness was nausiating, I have 6 kids, I know how things work, I don't need that much detail. Not to mention the adultery, oral sex...."

Sales took off like a rocket after that!


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## Jon Olson (Dec 10, 2010)

Courtney Milan said:


> I write sex. I write explicit sex. I even sometimes use explicit words to describe that sex, although I'm never as explicit as erotica. It's (a) a part of the genre and (b) always an important part of the story.
> 
> Yes, I could fade to black. I could also fade to black on fight scenes. It would not be nearly so effective.
> 
> ...


Nicely said.


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## K. A. Jordan (Aug 5, 2010)

Victorine said:


> I don't like reading sex scenes, so obviously I don't like writing them either. I enjoy writing about the kissing, the desires, the conflict, and the tension. So for me, I just don't go there. Whatever my characters do off stage is their own business.


What she said...

My first book, I wrote a sex scene because I felt I had to, in order to sell the book to Trade Published Romance.

Now that I'm Indie - not so much. Probably will do less the next book. Really, it's the thrill of the chase - getting to the point where a love scene makes sense. That's more fun to me than the 'deed' itself.

My books will always be less than steaming hot.


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## Susanne O (Feb 8, 2010)

K. A. Jordan said:


> What she said...
> 
> My first book, I wrote a sex scene because I felt I had to, in order to sell the book to Trade Published Romance.
> 
> ...


Ah, but my books *are* steaming hot. Not because of explicit sex scenes but because of what I put into the readers imagination. Or so I've been told.


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## otterific (Jan 31, 2012)

As a romance reader, I don't like too much sex in a book. On the other hand, if it moves the story forward, I have no problem with an explicit scene. However, if the language is crude, it throws me right out of the story. I also don't like sex scenes that seem to be there simply for fillers. Once the couple has been intimate the first time, that's all I need to read. I don't need to be in the bedroom with them each time they perform the act. I also like to read about the building tension between a couple, and watch them fall in love.
Of course, if the genre is erotica, the reader obviously expects explicit sex, and lots of it.
As a writer, I included a "love scene" in my first two books in my series, because I did feel it was needed, and moved the story along, after lots of tension first. In my third book, it just wouldn't work. 
So, I guess it all depends on the story, and what the scene is meant to accomplish for the entire story.


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