# Chris Fox's new release isn't worth the price you pay for it.



## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

It's worth more. Way more. Depending on how much backlist you have, it could be worth thousands of dollars.

Hey there, Kboards. You guys haven't heard from me for a while because frankly, I've been incredibly busy. First with my book design business, and second with helping my partner relaunch a trilogy she'd published from 2012 - 2015. We've been planning the relaunch since early January, with a planned release of September-October. It's been intensive, and a bit frustrating at times. So when I managed to get my greasy paws on an ARC of Chris Fox's Relaunch Your Novel, I was incredibly excited.

I read through it in an hour. I was pleasantly surprised to see that we'd been doing some things right (hooray!!). It also helped fill in some sizeable holes and--more importantly--has helped us mentally organize our efforts to know where to go yet.

I'm not going to ramble on, though, because I just wrote a long review on it. You can check that out here. And then you should go buy that book for a measley $3.99, because my socks have been rocked by this affirming/enlightening read.

Thank you so much for your insights, Mr. Fox!


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## Desmond X. Torres (Mar 16, 2013)

BAIT CLICKER! LOL
Good job.
Now, can you put up a link b/c I'm lazy, okay?


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## Word Fan (Apr 15, 2015)

Desmond X. Torres said:


> BAIT CLICKER!


You mean CLICK BAITER, I think.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Interesting. I'm planning to relaunch one of my series as duets (they were originally serials), so this book could be just what I need. Is it actually data driven? The Six Figure author had plenty of good advice but very little actual data.

I'm also curious as to how Chris defines a flop. I have a book that has made five figures that I consider a flop, though my only explanation for why it failed is release timing. It's a good book with a strong hook, though it is in a more tired niche.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Desmond X. Torres said:


> BAIT CLICKER! LOL
> Good job.
> Now, can you put up a link b/c I'm lazy, okay?


I've never written a click bait title before, but now that I have, I truly feel the POWAH!! 
But seriously, here;s a link.  https://www.amazon.com/Relaunch-Your-Novel-Breathe-Backlist-ebook/dp/B071HVZD1G/


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## JohnRickett (Jun 20, 2016)

I'll absolutely snag this, even without a healthy backlist. I have yet to pick up a Fox book that's not entertaining and where I haven't learned at least _something_ I found of value.

They're great to listen too while I'm doing mindless, blue-collar stuff.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Word Fan said:


> You mean CLICK BAITER, I think.


Clicker von Baiterly is its official name 


Crystal_ said:


> Interesting. I'm planning to relaunch one of my series as duets (they were originally serials), so this book could be just what I need. Is it actually data driven? The Six Figure author had plenty of good advice but very little actual data.
> 
> I'm also curious as to how Chris defines a flop. I have a book that has made five figures that I consider a flop, though my only explanation for why it failed is release timing. It's a good book with a strong hook, though it is in a more tired niche.


It's definitely an advice-oriented book, but Chris uses three case studies to back up his advice.  No long charts of numbers and figures, though. I'm well familiar with two of the case studies in the book so I knew they were legit.

He doesn't define it, really. I wouldn't want him to myself; this isn't about qualifying a previous launch, it's all about maximizing the effects of a relaunch for series that are lagging now, or have lagged from the beginning. But he lets us decide that on our own.



JohnRickett said:


> I'll absolutely snag this, even without a healthy backlist. I have yet to pick up a Fox book that's not entertaining and where I haven't learned at least _something_ I found of value.
> 
> They're great to listen too while I'm doing mindless, blue-collar stuff.


I agree, it's a great series all around. I'm moving onto Chris' youtube vids tonight while I work to see whatever insight I can glean.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Lorri Moulton said:


> Thank you!


You're welcome!


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## RightHoJeeves (Jun 30, 2016)

Oh that will come in handy...


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## Elizabeth Barone (May 6, 2013)

Nice job!

Fox's books are so helpful. I can't wait to read this one!


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## ibizwiz (Dec 25, 2014)

Thank you for the heads up, and thanks to Chris, too. Just bought it. Working on a relaunch and extension of our main series, so this is timely.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

RightHoJeeves said:


> Oh that will come in handy...





elizabethbarone said:


> Nice job!
> 
> Fox's books are so helpful. I can't wait to read this one!





ibizwiz said:


> Thank you for the heads up, and thanks to Chris, too. Just bought it. Working on a relaunch and extension of our main series, so this is timely.


You guys are all very welcome!


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## 77071 (May 15, 2014)

I come into this thread expecting to see a vicious fight break out, and what do I find instead?  Supportive comments and authors helping each other?  Bah...


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## EC Sheedy (Feb 24, 2011)

HSh said:


> I come into this thread expecting to see a vicious fight break out, and what do I find instead? Supportive comments and authors helping each other? Bah...


Yeah, so disappointing, right?

Thanks for posting this. This book is perfect for me. Already downloaded. I'm pretty sure if I don't learn anything, it will be my fault. Chris rocks!


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

Sounds like a perfect topic for The Book Bazaar section.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

HSh said:


> I come into this thread expecting to see a vicious fight break out, and what do I find instead? Supportive comments and authors helping each other? Bah...


Oh we can change that if you like... "Op How much did Chris pay you to write this post?" LOL


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

HSh said:


> I come into this thread expecting to see a vicious fight break out, and what do I find instead? Supportive comments and authors helping each other? Bah...


 I looked after I read it to see if there was an announcement about its release and there wasn't, so I decided to.



EC Sheedy said:


> Yeah, so disappointing, right?
> 
> Thanks for posting this. This book is perfect for me. Already downloaded. I'm pretty sure if I don't learn anything, it will be my fault. Chris rocks!


Hmm yes then you can understand my irrational excitement!



lostones said:


> Oh we can change that if you like... "Op How much did Chris pay you to write this post?" LOL


I'm afraid I'm no richer for this except in my extreme excitement and hopefulness over my partner's relaunch. Ah, well.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Write.Dream.Repeat. said:


> I looked after I read it to see if there was an announcement about its release and there wasn't, so I decided to.
> 
> Hmm yes then you can understand my irrational excitement!
> 
> I'm afraid I'm no richer for this except in my extreme excitement and hopefulness over my partner's relaunch. Ah, well.


Relaunching is not exactly rocket science.

Get a new cover
Get a new title
Get a new blurb

If that don't work.

Bundle a trilogy up into 3 books with a new cover, title and blurb ( put under new category )

Toss some advertising at it.

The rest is just gravy.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

lostones said:


> Relaunching is not exactly rocket science.
> 
> Get a new cover
> Get a new blurb
> ...


And the gravy is the best part. There are other considerations in the book than just cover and blurb, plus other factors of publishing that can assist in making the relaunch bigger than the first launch. This book helps lay those details out for the author to explore.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Thanks for the recommendation, Colleen.


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## Seshenet (May 20, 2015)

Thanks for head's up.

Sigh. So many books, so little time.


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Does a relaunch involve unpublishing and publishing under a new ASIN? Or just updating an existing book? That's what I've always wondered.


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## SunshineOnMe (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL you crack me up! I agree-- I love his books.


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## Tulonsae (Apr 12, 2015)

Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

lostones said:


> Relaunching is not exactly rocket science.
> 
> Get a new cover
> Get a new title
> ...


You're not wrong.

Writing isn't rocket science either. Just tell great stories, and write consistently. Marketing isn't rocket science. Just identify your audience, then present your product in a way that resonates with them.

But you know what? To someone who hasn't mastered marketing, or writing consistently, or relaunching their novel a straightforward resource can be extremely helpful. I don't write books for you. I write books for them. =)

Thanks for the shout out, Colleen. You totally trolled me. Well played


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## Seneca42 (Dec 11, 2016)

lostones said:


> Relaunching is not exactly rocket science.


Never underestimate the ability of the masses to believe that things are far more complicated than they really are. The entire diet industry is built on this human trait. Meat + vegetables + exercise = healthy and fit. Yet, somehow, that simple formula has been complicated to support a billion dollar diet and exercise instruction market (not sure if it's a billion, but it's huge).


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## Book Cat (Jan 3, 2016)

Dam. I came here for the dramaz!

I am still hoping to get into Chris' non-fiction books soon. They have been on the back burner for awhile. The 5000 words per hour book was one of the first writing books I ever read and really inspired me. But until I actually release something, the rest of his writing books are not as useful. But when I do release, they will be the first I read!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Sounds like a perfect topic for The Book Bazaar section.


Book Bazaar is where novelists can advertise their fiction. A non-fiction book on writing, is best discussed in a place where authors might frequent. Someplace like HERE.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> Book Bazaar is where novelists can advertise their fiction. A non-fiction book on writing, is best discussed in a place where authors might frequent. Someplace like HERE.


Book Bazaar is also for non-fiction books. I do agree that a discussion of writing books would usually happen here, but when it's being advertised with a link to buy upon its release, it's more appropriate in the Book Bazaar.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Book Bazaar is also for non-fiction books. I do agree that a discussion of writing books would usually happen here, but when it's being advertised with a link to buy upon its release, it's more appropriate in the Book Bazaar.


Book Bazaar is for authors to advertise their own books. As far as I know, it's always been acceptable for people to recommend other people's books here if they found them to be useful, as Colleen did with Chris's book.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Book Bazaar is for authors to advertise their own books. As far as I know, it's always been acceptable for people to recommend other people's books here if they found them to be useful, as Colleen did with Chris's book.


Since she's one of his ARC readers, it felt more like an advertisement than a simple recommendation.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Since she's one of his ARC readers, it felt more like an advertisement than a simple recommendation.


You miss the point. Chris Fox's non-fiction is helpful to new authors. I've learned quit a bit from him and just ordered this new one. I have all of Chris's resource material. This is a forum for authors, by authors, to help and support one another. What better way to help, than bring up a good resource material. Do you feel that a discussion of advertising and promotional tools should be in a different forum, too?


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Since she's one of his ARC readers, it felt more like an advertisement than a simple recommendation.


It's not like Colleen is making any money from her recommendation. And just because she got it as an ARC doesn't diminish its usefulness for people who might be interested in a book on the subject.


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

You guys will argue about anything. lol


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## C.F. (Jan 6, 2011)

NeedWant said:


> Book Bazaar is also for non-fiction books. I do agree that a discussion of writing books would usually happen here, but when it's being advertised with a link to buy upon its release, it's more appropriate in the Book Bazaar.


The OP didn't initially have a link. She added one when someone requested it.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> You miss the point. Chris Fox's non-fiction is helpful to new authors. I've learned quit a bit from him and just ordered this new one. I have all of Chris's resource material. This is a forum for authors, by authors, to help and support one another. What better way to help, than bring up a good resource material. Do you feel that a discussion of advertising and promotional tools should be in a different forum, too?


A discussion of advertising and promotional tools is one of the things that make this community great. When an author (or their friends, editors, cover artists, ARC readers, etc.) is actually selling such information, it should be from a service thread or the Book Bazaar.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Book Bazaar is also for non-fiction books. I do agree that a discussion of writing books would usually happen here, but when it's being advertised with a link to buy upon its release, it's more appropriate in the Book Bazaar.


Jeeze, a link to buy it means it goes in BB? Please enlighten me as to how someone can access the information without buying or borrowing it. She provided a link when it was asked for, not in the OP. I'm guessing there's more to your opposition than simple placement of a thread.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> A discussion of advertising and promotional tools is one of the things that make this community great. When an author (or their friends, editors, cover artists, ARC readers, etc.) is actually selling such information, it should be from a service thread or the Book Bazaar.


I'm pretty sure it's within forum rules that we're allowed to recommend writing books here that we found useful. If it's not within forum rules, I'm sure Betsy or Ann or Becca will move the thread.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

C.F. said:


> The OP didn't initially have a link. She added one when someone requested it.


Yeah, I saw that. But now it's in the original post, so it went from being a recommendation to a direct advertisement (on release day, no less).



Wayne Stinnett said:


> Jeeze, a link to buy it means it goes in BB? Please enlighten me as to how someone can access the information without buying or borrowing it. She provided a link when it was asked for, not in the OP. I'm guessing there's more to your opposition than simple placement of a thread.


There's nothing more to my opposition than what I've already stated. Why would there be? I just don't like seeing double standards being applied to books/authors people like versus those they don't. If this was a thread about any other writing book, by an author unknown to kboarders, it would already be moved to the BB.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Yeah, I saw that. But now it's in the original post, so it went from being a recommendation to a direct advertisement (on release day, no less).


It was released on June 30th. Not today.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

ShayneRutherford said:


> It was released on June 30th. Not today.


Good catch! Release week then.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

Here's precedent. This guy recommended Rachel Aaron's 2K to 10K here in the Writers' Cafe...

http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=150867.0


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

ShayneRutherford said:


> It's not like Colleen is making any money from her recommendation.


A free book could be a payment. Worth $3.99 (list price) or $9.99 (cost of KU subscription).



ShayneRutherford said:


> Here's precedent. This guy recommended Rachel Aaron's 2K to 10K here in the Writers' Cafe...
> 
> http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=150867.0


Yes, we can recommend each other books on writing/publishing we like. Also, notice:

He's not connected to Rachel.

No link in OP.

Recommended months after the book is published.

Rachel also has a lengthy post on her blog about the same topic (which she expanded into the book) that anyone can access.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Ooooh, this looks timely! After two years without publishing, I finally have two books in the series coming out soon. I've been wondering how to defibrillate the series back to life.


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## ShayneRutherford (Mar 24, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> A free book could be a payment. Worth $3.99 (list price) or $9.99 (cost of KU subscription).
> 
> Yes, we can recommend each other books on writing/publishing we like. Also, notice:
> 
> ...


Everyone else seems to be happy for the rec. But if you think this violates Forum Decorum, then by all means, report the thread.


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## LeonardDHilleyII (May 23, 2011)

Thanks for the link and info!


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

ShayneRutherford said:


> Everyone else seems to be happy for the rec. But if you think this violates Forum Decorum, then by all means, report the thread.


If the majority doesn't have a problem with something, it must be okay...

But no, I wouldn't report it even if I thought something would be done about it. Reporting things is not my style.


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## Rose Andrews (Jun 1, 2017)

I just started reading it today and I'm super stoked! I've read all of Chris's books in this series and watch his Youtube videos. Guess you could say that I'm a fan but really, his information has helped me a lot and given me the enouragement to keep moving forward. I can't wait to apply what he teaches in this book for one of my novels that doesn't sell. I did a relaunch in April and it still doesn't sell. I'm hoping to learn from Chris's book what I did wrong and how I can improve in the future.

Shout out to Chris: thank you for all you do! Some of us really appreciate your work!


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## RinG (Mar 12, 2013)

Tulonsae said:


> He talks about both. In fact, he talks about various types of relaunches and the reasoning behind which one would be best for your book. And he discusses how to analyze your book to determine this.
> 
> I haven't finished his book yet, but that's what I've read so far.


Awesome, thanks, sounds like just what I'm looking for then.


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## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm always happy to hear about a new book by Chris Fox. Thanks for the heads-up on this one!


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

This is just ridiculous.

The notion that we can't recommend books about self-publishing, the types of topics we talk about EVERY SINGLE DAY, is flat-out ridiculous. What does it matter that Colleen got this book as an ARC? Do me a favor and go look at Colleen's posts. Look at how many threads she's started advertising Chris' books.

None.

Colleen talked about this book particularly because it's one that really spoke to her as someone with a large backlist she wants to do something with. Everyone else was either happy she found value from it or wanted to ask questions about it to learn more about this topic.

People talking about a valuable and yet not often discussed aspect of self-publishing: the backlist.

Wow, what a monster she is for lighting THAT powderkeg. What will this lead to?


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## Jerry S. (Mar 31, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> This is just ridiculous.
> 
> The notion that we can't recommend books about self-publishing, the types of topics we talk about EVERY SINGLE DAY, is flat-out ridiculous. What does it matter that Colleen got this book as an ARC? Do me a favor and go look at Colleen's posts. Look at how many threads she's started advertising Chris' books.
> 
> ...


This ^^^.

I appreciate as a newbie writer that I can come here and get perspective from all of you on the craft of writing and publishing. I truly do take in as much as I can from the more established writers (and from the ones starting out like me). So when one of you creates a post to inform us about a new resource, I pay attention.

As for this book. I didn't see this as an advertisement at all. I had been waiting for this book as Chris had hinted about it elsewhere. I simply looked at it like "I just read this book on relaunching your novel and I wanted to tell you all that the information within is fantastic". Then, the link was added later at a request from another poster.

I seriously don't get the negativity into what is, to me, a positive post.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Folks,

Seems like y'all need some definitive word. Here it is: people are allowed to recommend books they find useful; even by fellow members here. We do review such posts to weed out the stealth promotion--which usually involves a brand new account . [Edit to clarify due to a later comment here--the brand new account is not of itself a disqualifier, but it is one of the things that can cause us to look deeper at a recommendation...to see if there is a connection between the poster and the recommended book. Sometimes there is, though usually there is not in books on writing recommended here; it happens more often with fiction in the Book Corner.]

As has been pointed out, we have had other books on writing recommended by members. It's not generally an issue, and I see none in this case. (Although, if received as an ARC, that should have been made clear.)

Let's move on to actually discussing the book, thanks.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

NeedWant said:


> Yeah, I saw that. But now it's in the original post, so it went from being a recommendation to a direct advertisement (on release day, no less).
> 
> There's nothing more to my opposition than what I've already stated. Why would there be? I just don't like seeing double standards being applied to books/authors people like versus those they don't.


I agree. It happens a lot. Same in Self Publishing Formula group. Dawson states no self promotion but yet he promotes his books lol. Double standards. But hey it's his house so i have no beef with it.



NeedWant said:


> Since she's one of his ARC readers, it felt more like an advertisement than a simple recommendation.





Betsy the Quilter said:


> (Although, if received as an ARC, that should have been made clear.)


But yes it should have been stated that Colleen had received an ARC. That kind of changes the promotional tone of this.

Anyway, back to creating books that i can promote on here in sneaky ways  (Joke mod, i abide by all rules )


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks for all of the support for those not wanting this moved, and I'm very happy do hear from everyone who appreciated hearing about it! 

Note about the ARC status: I grabbed the original ARC when Chris offered it, but I didn't actually read it until after release because I'm a lazy dork. Second: like I said in my review, I'm also one of those jerks who finds fault with everything, but I didn't here, which is why I was so excited. I also like Chris a lot as a person, but we don't have long talks on the phone every night, here. I'd safely say our level of direct contact treads the friend-friendly acquaintance line.

Anyway, I'm going to be more thoroughly filling out the exercises in the book tonight. Looking forward to getting more organized with my partner's relaunch as we get close to the wire 

Third note: I'm fairly confused as to why telling people about a book I think will be useful to other authors is somehow Mr. Fox promoting through me on purpose. He had no idea I was going to write this post. I did this 100% of my own accord with no forewarning. This is just weird, I've never seen people act like this with relevant author resource suggestions on WC. 

Ps: the arc was offered to a small group of people, not me directly. I just clicked the link when I saw it go up. He never even knew I took it until I wrote up my notes.


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## Jerry S. (Mar 31, 2014)

It was stated clearly:



> Hey there, Kboards. You guys haven't heard from me for a while because frankly, I've been incredibly busy. First with my book design business, and second with helping my partner relaunch a trilogy she'd published from 2012 - 2015. We've been planning the relaunch since early January, with a planned release of September-October. It's been intensive, and a bit frustrating at times. *So when I managed to get my greasy paws on an ARC of Chris Fox's Relaunch Your Novel, I was incredibly excited*.


Should it have been made more clear at the top before the text? I'm honestly not being combative, I just want to know the rules so I don't run afoul of them later.


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Write.Dream.Repeat. said:


> Third note: I'm fairly confused as to why telling people about a book I think will be useful to other authors is somehow Mr. Fox promoting through me on purpose. He had no idea I was going to write this post. I did this 100% of my own accord with no forewarning. This is just weird, I've never seen people act like this with relevant author resource suggestions on WC.


Its because a forum has rules, and people in the past have broken those rules and found nifty ways around them to get promotion. ( as stated by the Moderator above )

So they created a separate area for promotion.

However things get gray when we use the word "Recommendation."

No one is stating that FOXY paid you, ( I think Chris is a top guy and I don't believe for a second he wouldn't stoop that low ) but as one other person stated on this thread. It does seem a little suspicious that this comes out in the week that its released from someone who got a free copy.

Now had the title read "Chris Fox's new release isn't worth the price you pay for it. That's why i got a free copy." And the post didn't speak about a measly $3.99 when you didn't pay for it, with an additional link to go buy it.

It might have changed the tone of it. 

Had it been listed in the Bazaar section where promotion is allowed and not here, maybe the first title would have been fine.

Basically though, this thread has shown others how to skirt around the rules and get their book listed here on the week it goes out by having someone else recommend it. ( which appears to be okay as long as they are not a new user).


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

lostones said:


> Its because a forum has rules, and people in the past have broken those rules and found nifty ways around them to get promotion. ( as stated by the Moderator above )
> 
> So they created a separate area for promotion.
> 
> ...


Ah, well I wouldn't worry about making examples for others. People inclined already knew about it.

I can't say anything about timing. I wrote the post the day after I read it, while the fires were still hot. It happened to be after release day. I made it clear right in the first post that I got an ARC. I said 'measley $3.99' because I personally think the price is too low for the worth of the book. 6-9.99 would be more adequate in my perspective, but I u derstand that chris wants it as accessible as possible.

I'm a trained salesperson. 10 years training in a specialty retail environment, so my recomendations do tend to come off that way. It's never caysed a problem before and I didn't expect it to now.

The fact is that for this post to be an actual problem, Chris would have had to know I was posting it. He didn't even know I had an ARC, so that's not an option.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

lostones said:


> Its because a forum has rules, and people in the past have broken those rules and found nifty ways around them to get promotion. ( as stated by the Moderator above )
> 
> So they created a separate area for promotion.
> 
> ...


Again, consider the source. Colleen has likely gotten free books before. As far as I can see this is the only time she gave a recommendation. And she explained _why_ she was recommending it. She even stated that it was an ARC. We've already had a mod review this thread and not find it to be in violation of any rules.

So why are we still having this discussion?


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## BWFoster78 (Jun 18, 2015)

> Basically though, this thread has shown others how to skirt around the rules and get their book listed here on the week it goes out by having someone else recommend it. ( which appears to be okay as long as they are not a new user).


If we're being sticklers, don't launch threads pretty much accomplish the same thing? I've bought at least a dozen books during their launch weeks after seeing a thread describing the author's promotional efforts.

Seems to me that the mods are pretty clear that the rules against self promotion are there to keep the board from being filled with spam. Personally, I found this thread to be humorous (loved the title) and useful (even though I won't buy the book b/c ... uh, I don't really have a back library to promote).


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## anotherpage (Apr 4, 2012)

Perry Constantine said:


> So why are we still having this discussion?


I believe it's because of two questions. This quote by user NeedWant



NeedWant said:


> Since she's one of his ARC readers, it felt more like an advertisement than a simple recommendation.


and Coleen's question shown here as she still seemed confused regarding the difference between forum rules regarding promotion.


Write.Dream.Repeat. said:


> Third note: I'm fairly confused as to why telling people about a book I think will be useful to other authors is somehow Mr. Fox promoting through me on purpose.


Myself, I couldn't give two 2 hoots. But what is good for one, is good for all. If one person doesn't understand, the board will be filled up with so called "Recommendations" with links.

So people were clarifying. I hope that explains

Personally I would say to anyone. ( You can't go wrong buying Chris Fox books if you are a new author or even seasoned ) you might learn a thing or two.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm not sure how I can be more clear.

1) Recommendations are fine. We review such threads to try to prevent stealth promotion. <looks sternly at lostones re earlier comment .>. This is not the first book written by a member to be recommended by a fellow member. Libby Hawks' book Take Off Your Pants" has been widely recommended, also, for example.

2) Discuss the book. Or move on.

If you think stealth promotion is taking place, the thing to do is report it. Derailing a thread does not serve the community. Let us handle these issues.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## MyraScott (Jul 18, 2014)

I think it's a great reminder to get the most out of the work you've already done.  Now I just need a backlist to promote...


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## thesmallprint (May 25, 2012)

Talking about serving the community, I think a good start could be made by having the subject line reflect as clearly as possible the post content.

Time and again I see, "Has anyone ever done this?"  What would you do in my situation?" "I'm sick and tired of this happening"

Made-up subject lines, but you know what I mean.

Maybe I'm  just getting grumpy as well as old!


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

I was confused, but I understand where that comment is coming from now, even though I disagree. Since the mods have decided it's fine, let's keep going in that direction.

I'll share my results from the excersizes later tonight as an example. Woot! Let's put this baby to work


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## Kay Bratt (Dec 28, 2011)

Colleen, I love your never-faltering positive attitude and your willingness to bring a sense of community here.

As for the book recommendation, we see threads here with authors continually trying to find ways to breathe new life into their backlist. If someone finds some valuable advice/techniques from a proven bestseller and marketing guru all in one neat little package, and decides to recommend it to the rest of us, then wow--- that's what the Writer's Cafe is for, right? 

/cheers


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

I came here to see a fight (from the subject line) and instead picked up a new book that might help me. And the Kboards adds their Amazon tag to the link. Nice way to support them. It's all good.

Another big takeaway, click-batey headlines still work.


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

To get back on topic.

I picked up the book and read it this morning. I feel about the same as I do about _The Six Figure Author_. There's lots of good advice in the book, but it's geared towards much newer writers. I'm well aware that self-publishing books aren't geared towards me, but I still read them on occasion to see if I can glean a bit of advice.

Chris breaks down the kinds of relaunches you can do well. I disagree with some of his phrasing (I would only call something a relaunch if it involves a new ASIN), but that's minor stuff. I think the book will be helpful for authors who are lost when it comes to their backlist, poorly performing or otherwise, but less helpful for authors who already have a clear picture of their backlists.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Kay Bratt said:


> Colleen, I love your never-faltering positive attitude and your willingness to bring a sense of community here.
> 
> As for the book recommendation, we see threads here with authors continually trying to find ways to breathe new life into their backlist. If someone finds some valuable advice/techniques from a proven bestseller and marketing guru all in one neat little package, and decides to recommend it to the rest of us, then wow--- that's what the Writer's Cafe is for, right?
> 
> /cheers


Hey, you're so sweet, Kay. Thank you so much  I also agree with all of that!



Crystal_ said:


> To get back on topic.
> 
> I picked up the book and read it this morning. I feel about the same as I do about _The Six Figure Author_. There's lots of good advice in the book, but it's geared towards much newer writers. I'm well aware that self-publishing books aren't geared towards me, but I still read them on occasion to see if I can glean a bit of advice.
> 
> Chris breaks down the kinds of relaunches you can do well. I disagree with some of his phrasing (I would only call something a relaunch if it involves a new ASIN), but that's minor stuff. I think the book will be helpful for authors who are lost when it comes to their backlist, poorly performing or otherwise, but less helpful for authors who already have a clear picture of their backlists.


It definitely is geared toward those who are either new at 'real' book marketing, or people who are just plain lost. I'm one of those people where book marketing provides this irrational mental block. Like, I know what to do but I never get it right, do it in the right order, or sometimes struggle to 'put it all together' effectively.

For me, and why I was so excited, is that the book offered context (and order) to my brain-chaos on the whole matter. It was more like one of those *click* moments where I suddenly got what I should be doing with all of the information I had before reading the book. Having some info reinforced in the book while other info was set aside helped a lot, too.That was perfect or me because I needed some clarity.

For reference, I've been helping my partner publish her books since 2011. We did a full relaunch last year of one of the books we published back then that did ok, but I was disorganized and careless. The book has outsold its original release by 3500%, but hasn't been life-changing. I promised this next relaunch would blow it out of the park and now I have an essential guide to help me solidly move forward (and flail less).


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## Whatever Writer (Jun 20, 2017)

I've got all his books and love them - super easy to read, relevant, and up to date


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Alan Petersen said:


> I came here to see a fight (from the subject line) and instead picked up a new book that might help me. And the Kboards adds their Amazon tag to the link. Nice way to support them. It's all good.
> 
> Another big takeaway, click-batey headlines still work.


They seem to! I've never done a successful one before. According to this, I think I was too bland. This one seems to have gotten some people disappointed I wasn't here to FITE 



KD Ritchie said:


> I've got all his books and love them - super easy to read, relevant, and up to date


I actually don't own all of them, but I'm sure they're all awesome.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Write.Dream.Repeat. said:


> They seem to! I've never done a successful one before. According to this, I think I was too bland. This one seems to have gotten some people disappointed I wasn't here to FITE
> 
> I actually don't own all of them, but I'm sure they're all awesome.


A fight still broke out. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

Crystal_ said:


> To get back on topic.
> 
> I picked up the book and read it this morning. I feel about the same as I do about _The Six Figure Author_. There's lots of good advice in the book, but it's geared towards much newer writers. I'm well aware that self-publishing books aren't geared towards me, but I still read them on occasion to see if I can glean a bit of advice.
> 
> Chris breaks down the kinds of relaunches you can do well. I disagree with some of his phrasing (I would only call something a relaunch if it involves a new ASIN), but that's minor stuff. I think the book will be helpful for authors who are lost when it comes to their backlist, poorly performing or otherwise, but less helpful for authors who already have a clear picture of their backlists.


It's tough deciding who to gear my books at, but in the end I chose newer authors. They need the most help, and are the most likely to get something out of a generalized book. If you're an experienced author, you've already learned almost everything I present. That's true for all my books, not just Relaunch.

I use my YouTube channel as a testing group, and throw out videos on all sorts of topics. The ones that help newer authors are immensely popular, and all the top questions are from new authors. The advanced topics have far fewer views, but enthusiastic comments from the authors who did watch them. I tend to go where the data points.

It would be cool if more advanced books existed on the topic, but I'm unlikely to write them. Those books are rarely evergreen, and the more you niche down the more you exclude your potential audience. If I started talking about decision trees in SFA you might have found it interesting, but most readers would have been lost.

If you do find anything that fits your criteria, I'd appreciate the recommendation. I'm always on the look out for more good books, especially on craft.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Alan Petersen said:


> A fight still broke out.


I know, and quite unexpectedly.

Maybe I can destroy the world with a snarky guest post on one of the biggest news sources in the world!!


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

I came ready to duke it out with whoever the a**hole was who dared to criticize Chris Fox's book like that! LOL

And then, after I realized that it was a click-bait title and was a recommendation instead of a slam, I found people making innuendo about the motives of the OP.

Well, I'll be forthright:

I have found Chris's how-to books to be utterly clear and to the point. No better way for a novice author to spend $$ when starting their indie journey and wondering how to navigate this brave new world of indie publishing, IMO.

Chris doesn't need people shilling for him. He has a big enough audience and his work stands on its own, both non-fiction and fiction.

Congrats, Chris! I had your book on pre-order and plan to read it now that I've finished editing my new release. I have an older series to rebrand and relaunch so your book is totally timely!


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## ############# (Nov 2, 2016)

Chris Fox said:


> It's tough deciding who to gear my books at, but in the end I chose newer authors. They need the most help, and are the most likely to get something out of a generalized book.


This new, still-learning author appreciates that very much.



sela said:


> Chris doesn't need people shilling for him. He has a big enough audience and his work stands on its own, both non-fiction and fiction.


Thanks for saying that. I thought the accusations being lobbed at the OP were curious and I frankly didn't understand where their objection was actually stemming from.

As for Chris' books (fiction and nonfiction), he's my auto-buy. The moment a book goes up/live, I buy immediately.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Crystal_ said:


> To get back on topic.
> 
> I picked up the book and read it this morning. I feel about the same as I do about _The Six Figure Author_. There's lots of good advice in the book, but it's geared towards much newer writers. I'm well aware that self-publishing books aren't geared towards me, but I still read them on occasion to see if I can glean a bit of advice.
> 
> Chris breaks down the kinds of relaunches you can do well. I disagree with some of his phrasing (I would only call something a relaunch if it involves a new ASIN), but that's minor stuff. I think the book will be helpful for authors who are lost when it comes to their backlist, poorly performing or otherwise, but less helpful for authors who already have a clear picture of their backlists.


I also knew most of the information in the book, but having it all laid out in one place like that makes for a valuable reference. Another thing Chris does that I absolutely love is the exercises. And not only does he include them at the end of each chapter, but he also collects them all in an appendix. That's the most useful thing about his books on self-publishing because I'm someone who often reads when I'm on the go and I like to read through the whole book before doing the exercises. I wish more books with exercises would collect them in the appendix so I don't have to hunt them down when I'm in a place where I can do the exercises.


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## ......~...... (Jul 4, 2015)

Looking at the TOC, it does sound like a basic and common sense kind of book. If an author already has a backlist, and has already read and implemented the first five books in the series, it wouldn't hurt to cater to a more sophisticated audience. Though how advanced can a relaunch really get? It's not rocket science to begin with.



Perry Constantine said:


> I also knew most of the information in the book, but having it all laid out in one place like that makes for a valuable reference.


This is kind of the crux of the matter. People like to have everything collected for them and they want that motivational push that self-help books are known for. The only Fox book I've read and bought was the 5000 words per hour one. I even bought the app! But in the end, like many self-help/motivational titles, it felt like empty calories. I've borrowed the other books in the series but haven't gotten around to reading them because as someone who frequents places like kboards, it seemed like I already knew all that stuff anyway.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

NeedWant said:


> Looking at the TOC, it does sound like a basic and common sense kind of book. If an author already has a backlist, and has already read and implemented the first five books in the series, it wouldn't hurt to cater to a more sophisticated audience. Though how advanced can a relaunch really get? It's not rocket science to begin with.
> 
> This is kind of the crux of the matter. People like to have everything collected for them and they want that motivational push that self-help books are known for. The only Fox book I've read and bought was the 5000 words per hour one. I even bought the app! But in the end, like many self-help/motivational titles, it felt like empty calories. I've borrowed the other books in the series but haven't gotten around to reading them because as someone who frequents places like kboards, it seemed like I already knew all that stuff anyway.


I'm glad that the information is all you need to succeed. I'm glad for you in that. But, I'm not that excited about information. I knew and had started on a lot of the information spelled out in the book also. HOWEVER, I 1. have the privilege of being in a couple correct places to observe already-successful people, and 2. I've been known to get overwhelmed by *too much* information gathered from too many places.

A motivational slant helps me have the desire to apply it, and the added bonus of Chris' organization of information I did or did not know helps me tremendously. I know others are out there like me, especially the new or artistically-minded ones who struggle with internalizing the basics of successfully marketing their work.


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## Chris Fox (Oct 3, 2014)

NeedWant said:


> Looking at the TOC, it does sound like a basic and common sense kind of book. If an author already has a backlist, and has already read and implemented the first five books in the series, *it wouldn't hurt to cater to a more sophisticated audience.* Though how advanced can a relaunch really get? *It's not rocket science to begin with*.


I think you forget what it was like to be a new author. You grossly overestimate how difficult it is for a newer author to understand how and when to relaunch a book. Most authors haven't published a book at all, much less have a decent sized backlist. Even those that do may not understand how to utilize it.

The vast, vast majority of authors are still struggling with marketing and publishing. That's why they come here, to get help. People are reading this thread right now trying to learn, and they keep hearing how trivial and basic their needs are, how every author should already know this stuff.

Let me turn this back on you. Can you point me to a book you've read on marketing / publishing that you didn't feel is 'empty calories'? Can you offer a better alternative?

_Edited. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

Chris has said the book is aimed at newer authors.  NeedWant, it sounds like this is not a book for you--you appear, from your comments, to have this knowledge already.  That doesn't mean there's not an audience for the book (as expressed by many other posters here).

Yes, you're certainly allowed to comment based on your review of the ToC, and your point that a book by Chris aimed at more experienced authors would be of interest is a good one.

Since you've made your point, and are not interested in this particular book, by your own comment, I think it's time to move on and leave the discussion to others who have actually read the book or who are interested in it.

Everyone, let's leave off personal comments.  I don't want to have to ban anyone from this thread.

Betsy
KB Mod


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## Crystal_ (Aug 13, 2014)

Perry Constantine said:


> I also knew most of the information in the book, but having it all laid out in one place like that makes for a valuable reference. Another thing Chris does that I absolutely love is the exercises. And not only does he include them at the end of each chapter, but he also collects them all in an appendix. That's the most useful thing about his books on self-publishing because I'm someone who often reads when I'm on the go and I like to read through the whole book before doing the exercises. I wish more books with exercises would collect them in the appendix so I don't have to hunt them down when I'm in a place where I can do the exercises.


The exercises are nice and $4 is much cheaper than spending hours going through forums. I wish there were more books aimed at established authors (high five figure to mid six figure), but I understand why there aren't-- it's a much smaller group than newbies and aspiring authors.

I agree with Need Want about these types of books in general. They can be more motivational fluff than actual instruction, but sometimes you do need a little motivation.


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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

Perry Constantine said:


> I also knew most of the information in the book, but having it all laid out in one place like that makes for a valuable reference. Another thing Chris does that I absolutely love is the exercises. And not only does he include them at the end of each chapter, but he also collects them all in an appendix. That's the most useful thing about his books on self-publishing because I'm someone who often reads when I'm on the go and I like to read through the whole book before doing the exercises. I wish more books with exercises would collect them in the appendix so I don't have to hunt them down when I'm in a place where I can do the exercises.


I'm currently chewing through it because I'm in the process of a relaunch for a series that hasn't quite yet found its legs, and the different relaunch approaches are all very useful to me. The steps to a relaunch aren't rocket science, but neither are physics, astronomy, aerodynamics, or piloting, yet they're all pretty important in getting a rocket up into space, and there's kind of an order you need to do them in. Case studies are helpful road maps, and in this business, even simple statements like, "I launched with no promo" can mean vastly different things to the author whose idea of "no promo" is 5 grand worth of Facebook ads because their last job was booking ads for the Superbowl, and the other author who found ten bucks in their couch cushions and put it towards a BKNights Fiverr promo.

There's a lot of moving parts to consider in a relaunch, and even an experienced author (I have been at this for 20 years) can get good use out of analyzing the process, and the breakdown showed me what parts were hot-swappable and which worked better together. Thus far, the exercises are handy things to have around for routine maintenance even without a relaunch. This book is a useful addition to my bag of tricks.


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## 75814 (Mar 12, 2014)

Chris Fox said:


> You know what? I'm done. You win. I will return to smaller communities, and will simply stop posting here.
> 
> I know you believe I make my money from non-fiction, and that I'm some sort or predator. I no longer care. I'm tired of defending myself and my work. Knock yourself out.


This right here is the real tragedy. This isn't the first time experienced, successful authors like Chris have been badgered and smeared by anonymous members on KBoards to the point where they just throw up their arms and say, "to hell with it" and leave. Every time it happens, KBoards loses something valuable.

How is scaring off people with valuable experience and advice supposed to help authors?


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## LadyG (Sep 3, 2015)

Perry Constantine said:


> This right here is the real tragedy. This isn't the first time experienced, successful authors like Chris have been badgered and smeared by anonymous members on KBoards to the point where they just throw up their arms and say, "to hell with it" and leave. Every time it happens, KBoards loses something valuable.
> 
> How is scaring off people with valuable experience and advice supposed to help authors?


I really wish there was a "like" button.

When I first discovered KBoards after getting tired of the debacle that is KDP Forums, I was so excited to find a place where other writers actually behaved like professionals and acted like grown-ups. The more experienced and successful folks seemed so willing to reach out and help a newbie like me, so it really just sucks every time I see one of the Good Guys get driven away by behavior like this.

Chris, please don't give up on the rest of us. Believe me, NeedWant doesn't speak for the rest of us.

_Edited and edited quoted post. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


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## Anarchist (Apr 22, 2015)

Chris Fox said:


> I will return to smaller communities, and will simply stop posting here.


Chris, you have a bulletproof reputation here. If we organized members into two groups, fans and detractors, it'd be like comparing the populations of China and the Pitcairn Islands.

I'm not saying you should stick around. You should do what's best for you (duh). I'm just pointing out that there are only a few active folks who have such a lopsided fan/detractor profile.

In other words, bulletproof.


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## katherinef (Dec 13, 2012)

NeedWant said:


> This is kind of the crux of the matter. People like to have everything collected for them and they want that motivational push that self-help books are known for. The only Fox book I've read and bought was the 5000 words per hour one. I even bought the app! *But in the end, like many self-help/motivational titles, it felt like empty calories.* I've borrowed the other books in the series but haven't gotten around to reading them because as someone who frequents places like kboards, it seemed like I already knew all that stuff anyway.


This is how I feel about almost all books about writing. They go on and on about things that could be said in two or three sentences and that everyone could conclude for themselves if they just tried. But it's nice for newbies to have such books so they don't have to waste their time thinking. If I were a newbie, I'm sure I'd find a lot of useful information, but since I'm not, I don't really need them.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

OK folks...

I'm going to lock the thread while I do some purging and discuss things.

EDIT:  I'm going to reopen this thread in a bit.  NeedWant will not be back in the thread.  While we certainly want discussion of the book, and positive AND negative comments from people who have actually read the book are welcome, personal comments are not.  I'm doing additional purging to try to keep this thread on track and then will re-open it. 

Posts that have responded to comments that have been deleted have also been edited or removed.

/edit

Betsy
KB Mod


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## ############# (Nov 2, 2016)

The way I see it, if I learn *one* new thing from a book, my money and time was well spent.

Not everyone is at the same place in their writing life. What is old hat to one writer, is new to another.

Why spend time trying to find the information online in communities like this and scrape through the threads and discussions and diversions and the cat-scratching to dig for the gold when it can be found in one place in a book?

If I had done that, I _never_ would have learned how to do the research in finding a market to start writing in because the information out there was sketchy at best, contradictory at worst, and most of the time so vague as to be useless, _and_ with the added barb thrown in of some author telling the 'n00bs' to 'stop asking to be spoon fed and learn it yourself'.

I got Chris' book on how to write to market and felt like I had made a huge jump in my writing game.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2017)

I like Chris Fox, he's a very friendly and helpful person. I know how to relaunch a series but a book like this one can still be useful. It's a quick read and pretty interesting. It's definitely worthwhile reading for someone whose struggling with how to relaunch a series and looking for tips. Having it all in one book (you really should read multiple books though) is more useful than spending hours scouring forum threads, reading articles, and asking questions.

I especially liked the part where he's discussing the problems with his first series he wrote. I remember seeing those books and going "WTF!?", so it's funny to see him mention the same things I noticed.



LadyG said:


> When I first discovered KBoards after getting tired of the debacle that is KDP Forums, I was so excited to find a place where other writers actually behaved like professionals and acted like grown-ups. The more experienced and successful folks seemed so willing to reach out and help a newbie like me, so it really just sucks every time I see one of the Good Guys get driven away by behavior like this.
> 
> Chris, please don't give up on the rest of us. Believe me, NeedWant doesn't speak for the rest of us.
> 
> _Edited and edited quoted post. PM me if you have any questions. --Betsy/KB Mod_


That works both ways though, shouldn't it? Chris doesn't need the type of "defense" certain people are providing.


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## Rose Andrews (Jun 1, 2017)

LadyG said:


> I really wish there was a "like" button.
> 
> When I first discovered KBoards after getting tired of the debacle that is KDP Forums, I was so excited to find a place where other writers actually behaved like professionals and acted like grown-ups. The more experienced and successful folks seemed so willing to reach out and help a newbie like me, so it really just sucks every time I see one of the Good Guys get driven away by behavior like this.
> 
> ...


Lady G, do you watch his Youtube videos? They're informative and encouraging as well.

Honestly, if it wasn't for Chris Fox's Write To Market, I would never have understood the basics of finding or picking out my target audience. I had heard from other sites and blogs on how important this was but didn't understand it well until I read that book. I'm a beginner, just started publishing in January. I am grateful to Chris and other authors here on Kboards who take time out of their busy schedules to help the rest of us. I would very much like to pay it forward one day.

As for publishing books not being written for higher selling authors, this is how I feel about craft books in general. The information is basic that I learned a long time ago and it's nothing truly helpful for where I am in my writing career. But this only means that I'm not the target audience for those books same as my husband who reads non-fiction isn't the target audience for my romance novels.

Anyway, I look forward to learning how to restart my one novel that never sells because I believe in the story but I've failed miserably on the launch, which was my first.


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

This is still being debated? News Flash: This is a forum FOR authors. Reference materials, be they websites, blogs, books or billboards, that are ABOUT writing and publishing belong in the place where they can be discussed by the people they might help, AUTHORS. 

If that's troublesome for anyone, you really don't have to continue reading the thread. Just say to yourself, "Oh this is a discussion about information that might help authors, not me" and then just move along to the next thread.


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## sela (Nov 2, 2014)

I've read just about every major how-to book for indies. I've listened to hundreds of podcast episodes. I've read blog posts galore.

Sure, every bit of info in those books and podcasts and blog posts are already out there. New authors can spend the time and do the virtual leg-work and find it all out themselves for free. They can spend hours and hours and hours and hours searching for advice. They can try to figure out what works and what doesn't, sorting through all the opinions and experience.

Or, they can buy a few books by authors like Chris Fox and see it all laid out in one place, neat and tidy, logically presented, with exercises and examples.

That is worth a helluva lot more, IMO, than Chris charges for his book.

I'm on track to make a quarter million this year and I still read industry blogs, buy every new how-to book and listen to podcasts EVERY SINGLE DAY on how to publish as an indie. 

As a matter of fact, I just finished the first couple of chapters of Relaunch and am excited to put some of Chris's ideas to work.


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## Becca Mills (Apr 27, 2012)

Folks, I'm sure Chris appreciates the numerous defenses of his series, but they're keeping the contentious strand of the thread alive -- a strand that should've been tied off in 40 posts ago, when Betsy explained the rules. Let's move on.


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## C. Gold (Jun 12, 2017)

Thank you for bringing this book up. I don't have anything yet to rerelease but a friend of mine does and any tricks that can help him are greatly appreciated.


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## EggMcMuffin (Jun 7, 2017)

Ever since I've read 5000 WPH, Chris's books have been auto-buys for me. His YouTube videos have been invaluable in learning to deal with my inner editor. Even though I've yet to release my first book, I bought this new release as well because I know it will be useful a few years down the line, and I want to support him in any way I can for the amount of excellent information he puts on the internet for free.

So, IMHO, every thread that calls attention to his work is a useful thread for any author who's looking to self-publish, or improve his self-publishing workflow.


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## kenbritz (Oct 24, 2016)

Chris Fox said:


> I think you forget what it was like to be a new author. You grossly overestimate how difficult it is for a newer author to understand how and when to relaunch a book. Most authors haven't published a book at all, much less have a decent sized backlist. Even those that do may not understand how to utilize it.
> 
> The vast, vast majority of authors are still struggling with marketing and publishing. That's why they come here, to get help. People are reading this thread right now trying to learn, and they keep hearing how trivial and basic their needs are, how every author should already know this stuff.
> 
> Let me turn this back on you. Can you point me to a book you've read on marketing / publishing that you didn't feel is 'empty calories'? Can you offer a better alternative?


As a new author, there's plenty of marketing 'how to' out there - generally _NOT_ geared towards new authors, though there's a dearth of information. They often recommend having 3+ books under your belt before you can really _do_ anything (translation: make $). Like Chris, I'm an engineer. I'd rather learn and not make the same mistakes as those before me. Who plans to run a marathon with zero training? The ones who never finish.

I'm not planning on relaunching my novels, but once the series is out, it may be incorrectly marketed. It is cross-genre, so one market may appeal more than what I think is the primary genre market. For now, I'm content learning from others and choosing which mistakes to make myself -- I know I've made a few, but those are small and I'm new enough to be able to course correct myself. I've never met Chris personally, but I haven't found much fault with his work or desire to bring others along.

PS - It's amazing how much writing goes on here. I get annoyed with myself when I write even one post that I could've turned into a scene...keep writing great books, everyone.


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## KatieLee (Jul 20, 2016)

Just downloaded it, looking forward to read.

I only have one recently published novel up so far but I'm still sure I can find some helpful info.

Katie


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## Athena Grayson (Apr 4, 2011)

kenbritz said:


> As a new author, there's plenty of marketing 'how to' out there - generally _NOT_ geared towards new authors, though there's a dearth of information. They often recommend having 3+ books under your belt before you can really _do_ anything (translation: make $). Like Chris, I'm an engineer. I'd rather learn and not make the same mistakes as those before me. Who plans to run a marathon with zero training? The ones who never finish.
> 
> I'm not planning on relaunching my novels, but once the series is out, it may be incorrectly marketed. It is cross-genre, so one market may appeal more than what I think is the primary genre market. For now, I'm content learning from others and choosing which mistakes to make myself -- I know I've made a few, but those are small and I'm new enough to be able to course correct myself. I've never met Chris personally, but I haven't found much fault with his work or desire to bring others along.
> 
> PS - It's amazing how much writing goes on here. I get annoyed with myself when I write even one post that I could've turned into a scene...keep writing great books, everyone.


Relaunches don't have to be "only in case of fail." This industry changes on a dime, and in "hot" genres, it can pay off to update your covers/blurbs on a regular basis. It'll pay off more if you do your updates in conjunction with relaunch activities to maximize the new look.

It's like being the nerdy girl in the teen movie who gets the a new haircut and a pretty dress *without* having the slo-mo float down the stairs with her new look pan over to Boyfriend Material's dropped jaw and sudden character revelation.


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## AmpersandBookInteriors (Feb 10, 2012)

Athena Grayson said:


> Relaunches don't have to be "only in case of fail." This industry changes on a dime, and in "hot" genres, it can pay off to update your covers/blurbs on a regular basis. It'll pay off more if you do your updates in conjunction with relaunch activities to maximize the new look.
> 
> It's like being the nerdy girl in the teen movie who gets the a new haircut and a pretty dress *without* having the slo-mo float down the stairs with her new look pan over to Boyfriend Material's dropped jaw and sudden character revelation.


I agree that it's not a matter of previous series' failure. A series probably isn't going to be selling as well three years after the original release as it did at first, of course, so it can be as simple as a matter of revitalizing a series that has just aged.

The book details a few kinds of relaunches, from the simplest to the most complicated. Some may consider a relaunch where you didn't get a new ISBN more of a reboot, but the premise of refreshing the series to start up sales again is covered under a few different labels.


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## SA_Soule (Sep 8, 2011)

I think the book is great for newbie writers, and I did like the section on titles, which was very informative!  

I am actually planning a relaunch with one of my series. I unpublished them first. 

I design my own covers, so no extra money spent on that. I will use my CPs to help with the editing. And I will rework a few of the blurbs and update keywords. I will use some of Chris's advice on my backlist and let you guys know how it works. The books were published 6 years ago and needed some revision. Hopefully, I attract a wider audience once I finish!


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## Wayne Stinnett (Feb 5, 2014)

Though I'm not ready for any kind of relaunch, I bought the book. As with all the books in this series, there are the occasional gem that even an old dog can learn.

I prefer my reference material in physical form.


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## UnicornEmily (Jul 2, 2011)

OOH!  MINE!  I didn't know this was out!


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## A past poster (Oct 23, 2013)

Wayne Stinnett said:


> This is a forum FOR authors. Reference materials, be they websites, blogs, books or billboards, that are ABOUT writing and publishing belong in the place where they can be discussed by the people they might help, AUTHORS.
> 
> If that's troublesome for anyone, you really don't have to continue reading the thread. Just say to yourself, "Oh this is a discussion about information that might help authors, not me" and then just move along to the next thread.


I wouldn't have known about Chris's book if the OP hadn't posted. I bought the book immediately. No matter how much you believe you know, there is always something new and unexpected to learn.

Chris Fox is a valuable member of this forum. I hope we don't lose him.


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## stuff1 (Jan 1, 2015)

I bought all of Chris' books earlier. Write To Market I specifically wanted to read.

To preface this post I have ~110 books in my KDP dashboard, mainly romance series' in 5's. I made a few grand back in 2014 (around $15k in total) but spent all of that on having covers made etc... so all revenue. I did what "everyone else" did mainly in a group called "Kindling" and never got the same amount of sales. Looking at it now, having been reading this "Write to market" book it's clear why - people didn't tell me the full story, about tropes etc. 

I was always "clever" in my books, for example I would do the usual cliffhangers but based around making a weak woman strong over the course of the 5 book series...readers did NOT like that trope (mainly because they would only buy my permafree where she was very weak being book #1) and probably because my writing probably sucked.

If only that book had been around in 2014! Although the top review on Amazon suggests that the theory doesn't work, and I am yet to test it.


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## Doglover (Sep 19, 2013)

stuff1 said:


> If only that book had been around in 2014! Although the top review on Amazon suggests that the theory doesn't work, and I am yet to test it.


If only this thread had been around in 2017 - oh, wait a minute; it was.


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## unkownwriter (Jun 22, 2011)

Doglover said:


> If only this thread had been around in 2017 - oh, wait a minute; it was.


Ha ha! Zombies gonna eat our brains! urgh argh


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