# Bookgorilla.com



## jasonzc (Dec 23, 2011)

It looks like an alternative to Bookbub is launching. Same M.O.

[URL=http://www.bookgorilla]http://www.bookgorilla.com/[/url]


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Uhm.

"Alternative" . . .

Blatant rip-off?

If I didn't see the "bookgorilla" at the top I'd say it was bookbub's site.

Are we supposed to take them seriously when they copy the layout?

ETA: This is from KND. You'd think they could have come up with their own layout.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

If I was going to start an online bookstore, I'd definitely go look at and mimic Amazon.


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

That's pretty bad.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> If I was going to start an online bookstore, I'd definitely go look at and mimic Amazon.


I'd go look at what they do well, but I wouldn't copy their storefront.

There was this show on... some History Channel BS reality show thing. Bar Makeover or some such tripe? My wife loves the shows. ANyway, in this one episode they have a bar on Bourbon Street in NOLA, and the bar is a) half owned by the ex manager of some other bar and b) copied and just slightly changed everything about the other bar.

End result: they're on this show with a completely failing concept because all they did is ape (ha ha) an already successful business.


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## JHall (Mar 7, 2013)

You have the potential for an awesome mascot with a name like "Bookgorilla", so I'm sad they haven't used that potential. Other than that, is there any way for a writer to actually sign-up for it like you an with Bookbub?


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## Scott Daniel (Feb 1, 2011)

Almost makes you wonder if it's a scam...


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

JHall said:


> You have the potential for an awesome mascot with a name like "Bookgorilla", so I'm sad they haven't used that potential. Other than that, is there any way for a writer to actually sign-up for it like you an with Bookbub?


I'd agree. An awesome primate reading a book? Come on. That'd be sweet. Then move the menus around, use some different fonts. Aaaaand, a site worth using!

Doesn't look like it at this point. They may be gathering names first.



Scott Daniel said:


> Almost makes you wonder if it's a scam...


It's not. It's from KND. They just made the poor decision to copy Bookbub's layout.


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

If they've used Bookbub's code and just substituted their own graphics, Bookbub's web designers can push to have the site taken down.  I know web designers who have done that when their code was stolen and repurposed.  

Betsy


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't get the "gorilla" thing. What does a monkey have to do with books? Doesn't even roll off the tongue very well.

I think we will see more sites like these pop up. KND has a good start with their reader base that totally new start-ups will find hard to match. That said, a lot of their customers are used to freebies, not paid books. 
I did a sponsorship on KND once that failed utterly because my paid book just sat on a big page of free ones. Live and learn.


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## pjmorse (Dec 7, 2012)

If there isn't an actual gorilla on the page, I'm not interested.


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## Quiss (Aug 21, 2012)

pjmorse said:


> If there isn't an actual gorilla on the page, I'm not interested.


There is a sort of banana. With a book in it. That's sort of adjacent to gorilla.

Kidding aside. I might give them a try. Heck, ya can't _pay_ Bookbub to take an ad these days....


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## dalya (Jul 26, 2011)

Someone should apply to advertise some random cruddy book. See if they accept it. If they do, the service is dead before it starts.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more of these sites, actually.

It's like the people who sold the shovels during the gold rush. There's a market for exposure! Indie authors want to expose themselves!


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

Dalya said:


> Indie authors want to expose themselves!


Only to the willing.

Last time I got put in county for a week.


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

jimkukral said:


> If I was going to start an online bookstore, I'd definitely go look at and mimic Amazon.


Jim, I'm not so sure that's a great idea. I can understand copying certain _methods_ that seem sensible, but the blatant copy-catting of the layout of a known website seems like asking for trouble. I'm currently creating an online bookstore, and while I admire the way sites like Amazon operate, I'm still trying my best to make it look different from any known website. I'm even feeling uneasy since I've another website that hosts affiliate links from other bookstores.


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## David Alastair Hayden (Mar 19, 2011)

They may both be using the same template purchased somewhere else. Hopefully they didn't steal code. But I've seen other landing pages that look pretty much just like Bookbub's on the web. Some for sale. I do think they should've gone for their own look regardless and maybe they will soon.

I hope they're successful and that I can use the service to my benefit.


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## jimkukral (Oct 31, 2011)

People are making statements and insinuations here that are unfounded in my opinion. The site looks good in my opinion, and sure, it has similar elements to another site. Big deal. As long as nobody is stealing code and art...


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

Betsy the Quilter said:


> If they've used Bookbub's code and just substituted their own graphics, Bookbub's web designers can push to have the site taken down. I know web designers who have done that when their code was stolen and repurposed.
> 
> Betsy





jimkukral said:


> As long as nobody is stealing code and art...


I took a quick look. No, the main HTML and CSS code is different. In that case, all the power to them.


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

jimkukral said:


> People are making statements and insinuations here that are unfounded in my opinion. The site looks good in my opinion, and sure, it has similar elements to another site. Big deal. As long as nobody is stealing code and art...


It's not unfounded for me to say "your site looks too much like another successful site, so I am not really liking it" . . .

After all, it is MY OPINION.

We're all writers here. So we COULD write a story that is EXACTLY LIKE (INSERT POPULAR STORY) . . . but we choose to write our own works instead.

Same thing with design. You can make a perfectly-good website without emulating the competition.


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## timskorn (Nov 7, 2012)

Dalya said:


> Someone should apply to advertise some random cruddy book. See if they accept it. If they do, the service is dead before it starts.
> 
> I'm surprised we haven't seen more of these sites, actually.
> 
> It's like the people who sold the shovels during the gold rush. There's a market for exposure! Indie authors want to expose themselves!


At least you could do something with a shovel. But why would you want just a shovel, when you can have a GorillaShovel!!


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## MsTee (Jul 30, 2012)

timskorn said:


> At least you could do something with a shovel. But why would you want just a shovel, when you can have a GorillaShovel!!


LOL! For some reason, this made me imagine Donkey Kong with a shovel...shovelling bananas...


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## Betsy the Quilter (Oct 27, 2008)

MsTee said:


> I took a quick look. No, the main HTML and CSS code is different. In that case, all the power to them.


Thanks, I should have done that myself...but I'm doing short-attention-span surfing this evening...

Betsy


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2013)

The girl on the site is freaking me out. I don't know why. It's like she LOOKS normal, but something in my subconscious is thinking she wants to bite me and suck out my soul.  

Maybe I just need more coffee.


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## B.A. Spangler (Jan 25, 2012)

MsTee said:


> I took a quick look. No, the main HTML and CSS code is different. In that case, all the power to them.


Did the same.
Only thing similar is the design. The implementation is different, not a copy.


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## vrabinec (May 19, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The girl on the site is freaking me out. I don't know why. It's like she LOOKS normal, but something in my subconscious is thinking she wants to bite me and suck out my soul.
> 
> Maybe I just need more coffee.


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## penrefe (Nov 30, 2011)

Bards and Sages (Julie) said:


> The girl on the site is freaking me out. I don't know why. It's like she LOOKS normal, but something in my subconscious is thinking she wants to bite me and suck out my soul.


I'm hearing the faint echo of the tripod noise from War of the Worlds...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpQQ7UZ7brA


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2013)

vrabinec said:


>


ACCKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!

Not funny! That is exactly how I am seeing the chick on the site. It's like on the surface she looks normal, but underneath...BAM!...she looks like this!


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

Mathew Reuther said:


> Uhm.
> 
> "Alternative" . . .
> 
> ...


Wow. As a trademark attorney, I'd say this is definite "look and feel" and trade dress. But then again, I'm not so sure that Bookbub has really acquired distinctiveness in it. Although I do admit theat it's not just likelihood of confusion here -- like Mat, I actually WAs confused.


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## LinaG (Jun 18, 2012)

> Highest Quality Books: The books that we feature will be bestsellers, or written by authors with previous bestsellers to their credit, or published by a highly respected publisher,


So only authors with traditionally published books need apply? Unless you were published by an unscrupulous son-of-a-gun who offered you a crappy contract and/or tried to use your erights without your permission. That narrows the field of respectable publishers considerably. What if the "bestseller" came from such a publisher? Is "marginally respectable" respectable enough? Scarlett O'Hara and KBWCers want to know!



> or highly rated by readers and critics.


 OK, that works. A good goal for anyone.



> 100% Great Deals: All of the books we feature in our BookGorilla Deal Bulletins are deeply discounted from the usual Kindle Store pricing, sometimes as much as 100% off!


Ahh.. Now I see where indies fit in. We're the non-lucre lure.

How much to advertise if you fit into their criteria?

What if your book doesn't fit their criteria but is high in potassium and electrolytes?

Li


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

I don't have a problem with it. It could be jazzier, and it does look very similar to BookBub, but if it becomes a viable competitor, that'll exert some downward pressure on BookBub's ad rates. We'll see.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

Notice how their facebook lists their launch date, but they dated the copyright on the website to 2007?

Registration of domain: Kindle Nation Daily


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

Interesting to see the facebook site lists an launch date, and the copyright page on the site says 2007. At least they didn't date the site earlier than the first kindle release.

The registration on the site says Kindle Nation Daily.


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## BenEBrewer (Nov 5, 2012)

Gotta say - every time I come on this forum I have to bite my tongue and hold back - more often than not, my posts get deleted with no warning from the mods... says it all really...

So a new book site has gone into business - *great* - what's wrong with that?

Oh, so it looks like another popular site, funny how there are 9786 sites that are similar to fiverr.com using the exact same script, funny that for every Wordpress theme on the WP database there are at least 5000 sites built on that exact theme and there are 782 themes.

So what's K-boards response to a new book ad site? - *scam, rip-off, con, let's shut them down, report them* - but don't let K-boards stop there - let's belittle the model, let's rip her apart and make her out to be a monster  - seriously!

You should be ashamed of yourselves, it's posts and _opinions_ as 'Reuther' put it, like this thread that give indie and self-publishers a bad name.

_(now I'll just sit back and time the deletion of the post out - for sharing an opinion!) _

_Sorry to disappoint you, Ben...though I did remove parts that crossed the line as far as attacking your fellow members. --Betsy/"K-Boards" Moderator_


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## Amanda Brice (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't think it's a scam. I just think they should probably rethink their layout and design if they're hoping to brand themselves.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2013)

BenEBrewer said:


> So a new book site has gone into business - *great* - what's wrong with that?


Methinks the issue is that this is a new site for an OLD business (Kindle Nation Daily) copying a competitor's site. It's sort of like if Barnes and Noble came out with a new site that looked like Amazon and called it Amazonia.com.

Me personally, I don't pay much mind to these sites that promote discount/free books anyway so I don't think it is all that big of a deal (but damnit I am STILL creeped out by that girl!)


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## Mathew Reuther (Jan 14, 2013)

For the record I got a "thanks for your feedback" response. So I know they opened the email.


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## purplesmurf (Mar 20, 2012)

I requested prices thinking if they were a ton cheaper than bookbub it might be worth it to give it a try and this was the response I got just in case anyone is interested...

*Paid Books (Priced between 99 cents and $3.99, inclusive)

Group A: (Mysteries & Thrillers, Romance, Historical Fiction, Literary Fiction, Religious Fiction, Science Fiction, Fantasy, Horror Fiction, Action and Adventure, Erotica, and Women’s Fiction) - $100

Group B: (Humor, Teen, Childrens, Advice and How-To, Biographies and Memoir, Cooking, General Non-Fiction, Politics, History and Current Events, Business and Investing Leadership, Sports, Other) - $75

*Free Books 

Group A: (Mysteries & Thrillers, Romance, Historical Fiction, Literary Fiction, Religious Fiction, Science Fiction, Fantasy, Horror Fiction, Action and Adventure, Erotica, and Women’s Fiction) - $50

Group B: (Humor, Teen, Childrens, Advice and How-To, Biographies and Memoir, Cooking, General Non-Fiction, Politics, History and Current Events, Business and Investing Leadership, Sports, Other) - $40


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## Laura Lond (Nov 6, 2010)

That's good to know, thanks!

Did they mention how many subscribers they have?


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## JumpingShip (Jun 3, 2010)

I say yay for competition!


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## amishromanceauthor (Sep 27, 2012)

Laura Lond said:


> That's good to know, thanks!
> 
> Did they mention how many subscribers they have?


Yeah, I'd be weary to fork out a hundred dollars without knowing a subscriber count number. They have only been collecting emails for a little over a month after all.


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## Patty Jansen (Apr 5, 2011)

Duh.

They featured my freebie Fire & Ice last week. I didn't submit it and didn't pay. I didn't even know about the site. They sent out the email (I know, because someone I know receives these emails) on the same day this book was also featured on ENT, which is a sheer coincidence, because it's perma-free.

Because of the dual-featuring, I have no way to determine if Bookgorilla gave me a bump. I know ENT did


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## Steven L. Hawk (Jul 10, 2010)

Not too long ago, Kindle Nation Daily (which owns BookGorilla) used to be THE site to advertise on if you were a struggling indie author. There are quite a few threads here on KB that can be searched out and read to show how well books did through ads on KND.

Having said that, their previous model (mass emails to a large subscriber base) now seems tired and old. Just last week, I cancelled my subscription to the email list because I found it bothersome and of little value. I can't tell you the last time I purchased a book through one of their links. On the other hand, I routinely download great deals through the KB Bargains promos I receive via Fbook and (just recently) the emails I receive through BookBub.

I think this is KND's attempt to try and recapture their share of a shrinking ("shared" might be a better word) readership base. IMO, it's too little too late and they're playing catch up to a better model. I don't think their replication of BookBub's look and feel is a coincidence. I'll leave it to those who are smarter or more concerned than I am to decide if it's wrong--legally or ethically.

Today, _Peace Warrior_ was featured by BookBub (KB as well). Based on my results, which were great, it's not just my readership that KND has lost. Until/Unless they re-prove themselves as the best value available, they've also lost my advertising dollars.


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## lewaters (Jun 25, 2011)

I signed up for a free promotion in April. What the heck. I'll let folks know how it pans out. I say the more Bookbub's out there, the better.


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## NathanWrann (May 5, 2011)

I think the "e-book Bargain Site" world is constantly evolving. Yesterday it was Pixel of Ink and KND, today it is Bookbub, tomorrow it may be someone else. It seems like the future belongs to compartmentalization. It used to be mass e-mails to large subscriber base. Today it is mas e-mails targeted to readership preference by genre. Next it might whittle those genre's down even more, instead of YA, next it will be YA Paranormal.

It's constantly evolving. The only thing that seems to stay consistent is that as soon as advertising rates get to a premium, a new site is the hot new spot.


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## Saul Tanpepper (Feb 16, 2012)

NathanWrann said:


> It's constantly evolving. The only thing that seems to stay consistent is that as soon as advertising rates get to a premium, a new site is the hot new spot.


I remember watching my son play soccer when he was five. It wasn't so much soccer as it was a swarm of five-year-olds following a ball like meat bees to a BLT, and if the ball happened to get kicked into a goal (sometimes by the "defending" team), so be it. We laughed, we cheered, and we were happy to participate. In the end, however, was anything really accomplished?

I think we can get too wrapped up in the idea that we have to chase after every new opportunity because of this sense that things do go stale quite quickly in this business, but at some point we have to ask ourselves whether we're perpetuating the model and making ourselves dependent on it. I got the BookGorilla email and price list and seriously considered running an ad, not wishing to "miss out." If I wasn't already doing a BB ad tomorrow, I probably would have. But here's the thing: if BookGorilla is just cannibalizing their KND mailing list, which was built from subscribers looking for free books, one has to wonder: How effective will their ads be? I think I'll wait this one out until we get some feedback from more daring souls (and to give them time to switch their subscribers to a "not everything worth reading is free" mentality).


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Bookbub changed their website design now.










So all is well now. 

It's the size of their list and its responsiveness that will make or break the site, not the site layout. If they copy Bookbub's model, that's good. If they're able build a large subscriber list that's as repsonsive as Bookbub's than that's the better for us... more place to advertise. I've seen posts here asking for Bookbub alternatives, there you have it.


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## CEMartin2 (May 26, 2012)

Dalya said:


> Someone should apply to advertise some random cruddy book. See if they accept it. If they do, the service is dead before it starts.
> 
> I'm surprised we haven't seen more of these sites, actually.
> 
> It's like the people who sold the shovels during the gold rush. There's a market for exposure! Indie authors want to expose themselves!


I'll do it- my sales can't get any worse.


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## valeriec80 (Feb 24, 2011)

I've been getting Bookgorilla emails since like October of last year. They aren't new. They're some sort of offshoot of KND, I think. I paid for KND advertisement last fall, and it did a whole lot of nothing, and then Bookgorilla began emailing me, offering me stuff rather regularly.

The thing that kills these sites is taking money from everyone. People only will respond to the emails if they aren't constantly downloading subpar stuff. After your email list gets bitten on the butt a few times, they no longer pay attention to your offerings.

So, if bookgorilla really does start providing a service that readers actually want, then maybe they'll become a force to be reckoned with. I'm going to be watching the ranks of the books they advertise with interest.


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## RuthNestvold (Jan 4, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> So, if bookgorilla really does start providing a service that readers actually want, then maybe they'll become a force to be reckoned with. I'm going to be watching the ranks of the books they advertise with interest.


I've signed up and plan to do the same thing. Could be much-needed competition for Bookbub, could be a dud.


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## Nathan Elliott (May 29, 2012)

valeriec80 said:


> I'm going to be watching the ranks of the books they advertise with interest.


Good idea. Just remember that BookGorilla (and any site like them, really) probably features books for free on days when nobody has paid for an ad. Convince yourself that any rise in rank is really being driven by BookGorilla and it was not just that BG saw a book that was doing well and decided to run it as a comp. Or that BG is not just looking at ENT, POI, and BB lists and picking the same books to fill up their slots.

I think BookGorilla could be a great site. As others have said, it looked like lack of quality control killed KND, so assuming he's learned that (and it looks like maybe he has, based on his "promise" on BG), then I see no reason why BG could not be successful like KND was back in the day. I think he got almost everything else right with KND. Starting over with a new brand and keeping quality in mind might work.


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## tensen (May 17, 2011)

They now have a logo that is a book coming out of a banana.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

BookGorilla is making a crucial mistake, IMO. You can choose to have 12, 20, or 50 books (as I recall) listed in your ebooks. Even 12 is too many! BookBub can charge a lot for an ad because they limit their emails to a few books. I wouldn't pay much for an ad knowing that my book would be only one of fifty books in the email.


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## Alan Petersen (May 20, 2011)

Jan Strnad said:


> BookGorilla is making a crucial mistake, IMO. You can choose to have 12, 20, or 50 books (as I recall) listed in your ebooks. Even 12 is too many! BookBub can charge a lot for an ad because they limit their emails to a few books. I wouldn't pay much for an ad knowing that my book would be only one of fifty books in the email.


I just signed up and I thought the same thing when I saw that. 12! And that's the smallest. I'm already glossing over. That's the problem with the other mailers from some of the big sites. They put in a newsletter style with way too many choices and verbiage. I now just do a quick scan, if that. BookBub, in ten seconds I can see what they're promoting and if it interests me. I've bought books and downloaded free books from their mailers on several occasions. I can't recall the last time I ordered anything off the other mailers.


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## Jan Strnad (May 27, 2010)

Correction, it's 12, 25, or 50.

I asked about buying an ad. It's $100 in Mysteries and Thrillers and other big categories, but we don't know how big the mailing list is. Your book will be in the "first 25" books listed. If they deem it worthy, you can pay another $100 to get into the top 12.

Anyone tempted?


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## EdShull (Mar 1, 2013)

No. I think they missed the point of BookBub. It's low inventory is what makes the impact. But I might give it a try to see if it performs at all.


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## Tony Bertauski (May 18, 2012)

I subscribed to Bookgorilla, just to see who is advertising. Still don't know what their audience numbers are, but it appears a lot of authors (indie and trad) are jumping on board. I'm throwing a permafree book into the ring, see what kind of numbers it runs.


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## jenminkman (Mar 2, 2013)

Let us know how your perma-free experiment goes! Getting curious about this service...


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## JTCochrane (Feb 6, 2012)

It is a spin off of Kindle Nation Daily.  I signed up to run a free promo on the 10th of May.  I figured what the hell, I'll give it a try.  I will report my results.


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## Jay Allan (Aug 20, 2012)

Did I read their site correctly?  $100 to be one of up to 50 books in an email?  And they have no track record yet?

Time will tell, I guess, but this strikes me as completely out of whack.  Maybe it will perform, in which case it would be worth it.  I guess we'll see.  I'm usually aggressive about trying an advertising option, but this one seems very unattractive to me.  I'll wait and see.


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## Amyshojai (May 3, 2010)

I had a feature last week with my nonfiction ComPETabilty/Cats book, dropped it from $5.99 to $2.99--it cost $75--and also bought the "starred" call out for the extra $100. 

The results have been spectacularly UNDER-whelming, compared to BookBub. I didn't expect to do as well with nonfiction as fiction, but still...total I sold 43, so it would have barely paid for the $75. It did push the book rank to #1 in 4 categories for 3 days, and it stayed in the top 10 for 5 days. I think I've sold maybe 5 more since the price went back up.

Several of my indie author friends also had features with their fiction. Whereas their BookBub placement resulted in hundreds of sales and carry-over after the promo ended, the Bookgorilla in all cases sold less than 100 copies, didn't pay for the add, and had little to no residual effect. 

My opinion? Good idea--but too early without the solid subscription reach to command those prices. *shrug* Glad I tried, but will wait before trying again. You'll note that many of the books listed are also the same day on BookBub, and from trad-publishers so I suspect this is being marketed and used by new york houses, too.


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## Vivi_Anna (Feb 12, 2011)

I did an ad, paid extra to be a starred book, my genre was paranormal romance.  It was dismal to say the least.  spent $200, sold maybe $80 worth.  So lost $120.  Did nothing to my rankings.


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## Tony Bertauski (May 18, 2012)

I'm in for May 1. Permafree. Cost $50. After the last couple posts, I feel more like I just lit money on fire.


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## JFHilborne (Jan 22, 2011)

JHall said:


> You have the potential for an awesome mascot with a name like "Bookgorilla", so I'm sad they haven't used that potential. Other than that, is there any way for a writer to actually sign-up for it like you an with Bookbub?


At the bottom of the page is a tiny Advertise button. The costs are quite a bit lower than BookBub. I've never had much success with any of the ads I've done with KND, but have always done well with BookBub.


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## Tony Bertauski (May 18, 2012)

Ran a $50 ad on Book Gorilla. The results are in.

The Discovery of Socket Greeny has been permafree for a year or so. I do promos every once in awhile and, depending on who picks it up, can give away 3000 to 6000-ish. The number of giveaways has decreased over time, naturally. Here are the last two promos:

Bookbub (March): >5000 downloads (+traffic on BN and Kobo) along with a significant bump in residual purchases of book 2 and 3 on all three sites.
Book Gorilla (May): 500 to 600 downloads; too early to see if there are residual purchases.

Of course, the drop could be due to recent exposure or maybe the mailing list is similar to Bookbub. Even so, this was significantly lower than expected. I'll steer clear of Book Gorilla promos for the time being.


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## Adrian Howell (Feb 24, 2013)

I have a Gorilla ad coming up on the 8th of this month for a 3-day Free Promo on the first book of my series. I’m hoping it’ll draw enough downloads to get more readers onto the rest of my books.

I hadn't read this thread back when I signed up and paid the $50 monkey fee, but even so, I figured from the start that Gorilla wouldn't do as well as the older, more established Bub. But that's just fine as far as I'm concerned. After all, Bub refused to take my money, so I had little choice but to pass it to the monkey anyway...  

As for its effects, I probably won't ever know, since I have a bunch of other sites promoting my free promotion on the 8th as well, and who knows how many people will be directed from Gorilla as opposed to from other sites.


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